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The Tides of Event

Mitt Romney’s sickening insincerity was on full view Sunday night as CNN served up both candidates complete finish-line pitches to the Ohio crowds thought to hold the fate of the election in their fickle sway. Romney has consistently proved one thing over the whole, long, nauseating course of his campaign: that he will say anything to get a vote, no matter how hollow, fatuous, craven, or at odds with reality the utterance is. 
     Last night he went on about how the USA would become “energy independent” when he opens all federal lands to oil drilling. This plays on some lamebrain notion that there are vast fields of easy-to-get oil sitting out under the Wyoming hardpan waiting to be tapped. Surely Mitt know better.. or does he? The reality is that these lands fell into federal ownership largely because they had so little value in the first place. If there was another Spindletop lurking under the sagebrush you can be sure it would have been found long before now, so Mr. Romney is just preying on the public’s wishful ignorance (or his own) when he says these things.
     Which gets to the larger issue of what the “drill drill drill” mantra really means: namely, that Mitt Romney has no idea where history is taking us. The public may be very nervous about how they will pay for gasoline needed to live in the suburban matrix, but the reality of the situation is that the suburban matrix is the problem and doing everything and anything we can to prop it up is going to destroy the nation. Mr. Romney is oblivious to this reality and so you can be sure that his mysterious “plan” for leadership is an empty promise. A reality-based plan, for instance, would be the rapid rebuilding and electrification of the regular railroad system, both as an economic development measure and a national security issue, along with the spirited promotion of walkable neighborhoods and the rebuilding of our small towns and small cities. But Mitt is “a car man,” as he likes to say.
     President Obama was on display, too, a little later making dubious claims about his accomplishments and distinctions. (Jon Corzine is still at large.) There’s no evidence that he understands the true nature of the implacable economic contraction underway and how it will change everything about how we live on this continent. But I think there is a better chance that he could get a clue in the next four years than is the case for Mr. Romney. Also, I don’t trust Mr. Romney to deal intelligently with foreign nations, while the specter of yet another arch-conservative idiot on the Supreme Court of the type that would rule affirmative on something like the Citizens United case gives me the vapors… so I have to pull the lever for Mr. Obama.
     Finally, I just don’t like Mitt Romney. He’s the over-eager twerp in the classroom with his arm always sticking up. He’s the missionary bozo in a necktie ringing your doorbell to sell a fairy-tale cult religion dreamed up in the 1820s by another over-eager con artist. He’s obviously using the national stage to work out his father issues (George Romney ran for president in 1968, blundering his way out of the race early on). He shamelessly panders to the worst elements of his own party – the ignorant, militaristic, punitive-minded Nascar evangelicals – and dissembles so automatically that there is nothing left of whatever core beliefs he might have theoretically developed earlier in his career. He’s too chicken to engage with the realities of climate change, so visibly on display this season. He’s spoiling to rumble with China, apparently oblivious to the fact that China’s leader-in-waiting, Xi Jingping, is an army brat. I pray at my little alter of ecumenical totems that the tides of history will sweep Mitt Romney out to the seas of retirement from public life, where he can enjoy his Medicare entitlements secure in the guarantee that he will not be hassled over any pre-existing conditions.
     Speaking of tides, we are now a week past the awful depredations of Hurricane Sandy and a lot of people are yet sitting in the cold and dark. The story is still developing – in a way similar to Hurricane Katrina – in the sense that the ordeals of individual suffering and loss are slow to emerge from the chaos of the moment into public awareness. For instance, it took weeks after Katrina for many property owners to learn that the loss of their house was attributed to “flooding,” which is generally not covered in home insurance policies. There are still vast neighborhoods, such as Long Beach, Long Island, where the issue hasn’t even come up yet, at least not in the news media. When it does, it will be much bigger deal politically than was the case in Biloxi, Mississippi, or the 9th Ward of New Orleans, where people were more accustomed to the cruel boot of authority, not to mention the frequent tantrums of a subtropical ocean.
     I don’t know how Sandy will affect the electoral results in New York, New Jersey, Virginia, and Pennsylvania, but even if polling places can be set up in ruined, blacked-out districts one would think the eligible voters have a lot more urgent matters on their minds.
     Anyway, once this dreadful election is over the floodgates of events will open up and we will once again be forced to reckon especially with the epochal forces that seek to shatter the financial system. Sandy was a kind of preview of coming attractions for a different sort of wreckage to come.

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James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

622 Responses to “The Tides of Event”

  1. goodhumorman November 5, 2012 at 9:10 am #


  2. Hammering Truth November 5, 2012 at 9:10 am #

    Romney and Obama are controlled by the same people. Four more years of Obama: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VWEuAt7NGE&feature=share&list=UUdCxhHJVEnkpWP19ATkPd2g

  3. topkopy November 5, 2012 at 9:17 am #

    “The Devil’s Dictionary” (for early voters) … http://businessneologisms.blogspot.com/

  4. Smokyjoe November 5, 2012 at 9:21 am #

    JHK nails Romney. R is the poster-boy for Plutocracy, misreading the reality of American decline all around us as something to fix with drilling for oil, bitch-slapping China, and pumping up an already bloated military machine.
    It may take a lot longer for a broad segment of our populace to give up on the myth of American exceptionalism. Hop into your time machine to ask a Brit from most any social class in 1912, and he’d have said something similar and Kiplingesque about an empire where the sun never sets.
    Obama has his version of the exceptionalism myth, though I’ll pull the lever for him, rather than anyone from a party that denies climate change and lets *anyone* in the door who thinks the earth is 6000 years old.
    Sadly, it will take more of America each year to look like the Jersey Shore to convince us that only hard work will solve the biggest issue we face now: an unstable and warming climate. We already behave like Snooki and The Situation from Jersey Shore, and that popular culture of idiocy makes us less likely to do anything intelligent about climate change and energy depletion.
    Whoever slinks into the White House early in 2013, the next four years will be angry, bitter, and dangerous. Good luck, CF Nation readers!

  5. Goat1080 November 5, 2012 at 9:23 am #

    The United States will be Energy Independent? Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!! So funny!!!!

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  6. Goat1080 November 5, 2012 at 9:24 am #

    Energy Independence? Is this the “New Declaration of Independence”? What a lark!

  7. piltdownman November 5, 2012 at 9:27 am #

    Perhaps there is a comparison to be drawn between the out-of-touch Americans who will willingly vote for Mitt and the people who, despite all historical evidence of the danger, still insist on living in flood plains or only ten feet above sea level along the coast of one of the world’s great oceans. Both evince a sort of willful disregard of rational thought, of even just plain common sense.
    Along with this goes the idea that we can continue to deliver power to people via vertically positioned creosote-soaked logs. Look at an old tin type from the early part of the last century and the only thing which still seems vaguely familiar will be those “telegraph” poles. Imagine if at least 50% more of the electrical lines along the eastern seaboard had been underground — and how that would have helped mitigate the damage, loss of life and loss of productivity.

  8. Neon Vincent November 5, 2012 at 9:35 am #

    I see you decided to vote for Obama despite your disappointment in him over your disgust for Willard the Rat. You’re not alone, and Obama is counting on people like you to do so. Of course, living in New York, you could vote for Jill Stein and not harm Obama’s chances for reelection one bit.
    Speaking of pulling the lever, are you voting for Kristen Gillibrand? She seems very interested in research on new sources of energy.
    As for Sandy, yes, this storm will be the North’s Katrina. Here’s to hoping that the news media capital of North America being at the epicenter of the destruction will lead to a quicker and fuller recovery.
    Over at Crazy Eddie’s Motie News, I’ve been following the election and Hurricane Sandy. My election entries are mostly about Michigan contests, but I’ve also been following the national contests, including Senator Gillibrand’s reelection. That woman likes to be photographed around people wearing lab coats! I also managed a driving update to see how my wife and I are contributing to the long-term decline in miles driven over the past four years, an update on the gas price roller coaster, and the latest space and astronomy news.
    As for what’s on tap, more election news, including a comparison of the two candidates’ energy and science policies, the minor party debate between Johnson and Stein tonight, and lots of election results.
    Happy Motoring–for now–from Detroit!

  9. Barter4Booze November 5, 2012 at 9:36 am #

    Whatever the distraction, weather, professional sport, television, an election is far too rare an event to ignore. I sincerely hope that each and every one who is eligible to vote will go to the poll and vote on election day, then check out ‘Economic Update’ at wbai.org, where the learned Dr. Richard Wolff is eager to explore the changes necessary to the economic system.

  10. Tancred November 5, 2012 at 9:37 am #

    I see Mitt as a real game changer that can take our country to the next level, moving forward. He’ll add value to the Oval Office and leverage his business skills to honor and assist the job creators, remove red tape, and foster an environment that enhances our country’s entrepreneurial spirit.

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  11. Liquid Lennny November 5, 2012 at 9:37 am #

    Got to say Jim you’re pretty much right on again.
    Wouldn’t be so sad if it weren’t true, and when this election is over we’ll find, once again, we got what we deserve. I think we all sense we’re running out of “do-overs”
    As for being evasive regarding the issues the ad link below could as well been applied to either Obama or Romney. Check it out, it might just make your day too…
    As for me I’ll be voting for Jill Stein this time around, she made the best case I heard regarding the threat to our democracy by the concept of corporation personhood and the citizen united case.

  12. k-dog November 5, 2012 at 9:41 am #

    Anyway, once this dreadful election is over the floodgates of events will open up and we will once again be forced to reckon especially with the epochal forces that seek to shatter the financial system.
    It would be nice to think so but I don’t see the election as distracting from important issues. When this election is over all will return to being clueless but with less of an excuse.
    &#100004 K-Dog for president (Write me in.)
    Because bulling the lever for Barack isn’t going to save the world. If it was even a start in the direction I’d say vote for him but I can’t.

  13. Solar Guy November 5, 2012 at 9:41 am #

    ‘the ordeals of individual suffering and loss are slow to emerge from the chaos of the moment into public awareness’
    Just spent the morning going through lots of Sandy photos and the severity just hit me.
    Keep putting out positive vibes and attract positive people to do positive things. Reality is harsh but your will can help shape it.
    Going to make our grid-tied solar system have a battery back up just in case the grid has any issues this cold winter, specifically to run all the pumps for the solar thermal systems to keep us warm. Year 3 of gardening, and still only a few rotten tomatoes left, no jars and jars of storage as dreamed…

  14. k-dog November 5, 2012 at 9:43 am #

    pulling the lever
    K-Dog for president.

  15. cameta November 5, 2012 at 9:48 am #

    In Spain after ten months with Mariano Rajoy we need a bailout.

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  16. ffkling November 5, 2012 at 9:49 am #

    Yes, indeed the RepubliCONS are hoping upon hope: enough votes are siphoned away from Obama for a third party candidate coupled with aggressive voter disenfranchisement efforts will result in a repeat performance of the 2000 election debacle and its truly disastrous consequences.
    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

  17. sevenmmm November 5, 2012 at 9:52 am #

    I am not voting for either of those two candidates. There are more than two you know. But I haven’t decided yet, its either Stein, who should oversee the cleanup of toxins, or Johnson, who should end government-driven malinvestments (and open corporations to environemental lawsuits).
    Oh, look, the carboned atmosphere induced overly-heated ocean is sending another 100 year storm into NYC.

  18. Scott Bartlett November 5, 2012 at 10:00 am #

    I keep hearing the phrase ‘low-information voters’ during Presidential election coverage.
    Seems to me there’s only one piece of info required: Romney’s a lying corporate shill.

  19. thucydides November 5, 2012 at 10:06 am #

    As a conservative I fully plan to vote for Obama so that he can receive the full serving of crap sandwich he has dished out to America in the last four years for the next four. I hope to see him successfully destroy the farce that is the democratic party for the 2016 election. 2nd time I’ve voted democratic in my life and can hardly wait to watch all of the circus of incompetence that is our national community organizer.

  20. BeingThere November 5, 2012 at 10:09 am #

    After much consideration you need to understand it’s not just Romney you vote in, but the whole machinery that wants to take this country back to the 1920’s again. Every gain in the Republican party is a mandate for the horrendous changes they want to make whereas the Democrats should have seen the election as a mandate for single payer medical insurance.
    I have come to the conclusion that 3rd parties don’t have the giant machines behind them and cannot effect the big apparatus that is the USA today.
    Building new parties have to start from the bottom up. There has to be big organizing pushes for a third party to take charge. It’s not going to happen over night. Without big clout, nothing will get in the way of the Plutocracy’s pets.
    Jill Stein got arrested and was handcuffed to a chair for hours when she showed up outside the debates a few weeks ago.
    Wake up. A protest vote will only cause you more pain. It is with a heavy heart that I vote for the Democrat Plutocracy boy of the banks who will meet with the Republicans for austerity for the 99%. Be assured Romney will only be more draconian.
    I am going to a luncheon on Friday where Chris Hayes will be speaking and there is an emerging group of post Roosevelt economists who I hope will come up with an alternative view.
    The energy thing–ah, I think people are beginning to catch on…They joking call parts of NYC “Little North Korea”.

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  21. bearfoot November 5, 2012 at 10:09 am #

    you seem to have a different beat, could everyone else be out of step, or might it be you?

  22. Rick November 5, 2012 at 10:14 am #

    Great post Jim.
    You’re right about Mitt.
    And you’re right about things to come.

  23. pedal pusher November 5, 2012 at 10:18 am #

    I like Obama and will probably vote for him. But perhaps Romney would be a better choice. Romney has proven that he can change lanes at the drop of a hat. He seems more of a pragmatist than anything else and uses ideology as a political tool to be discarded at whim.
    Remember Clinton on welfare reform, and Nixon on China (not to mention such liberal darlings as environmentalism, energy conservation and Native American rights).
    A President always has more operating room on the opposite side of the isle. A second term Obama will have no chance of effecting any meaningful change, due to the partisan political atmosphere. But a president perceived to be ‘conservative’ – whatever the hell that means – might have substantial wiggle room to the left. Consider Romney’s liberal stances in Massachusetts.
    Who can tell what Romney really thinks…what he really knows? Not me.

  24. Rosalux November 5, 2012 at 10:18 am #

    Thanks Mr. Kunstler for another great article. Disagree with you though on voting for Oblablah.
    Check out the short election quiz: iSideWith.com (to see which of the presidential candidates you really side with?)
    But even more importantly, here’s what’s happening to our votes:http://www.gregpalast.com/
    Greg Palast is putting his $$ where his mouth is and is giving away his bestselling book “Billionaires & Ballot Bandits:
    How to Steal an Election in 9 Easy Steps” FOR FREE!!! Just go to his website and download it.

  25. damie November 5, 2012 at 10:18 am #

    I will not vote for either candidate from the main political parties. As BAR has said, Obama is the more effective of two evils. A vote for a third party candidate is essential in this election, a protest vote to show the powers that be that their monopoly on power has limits. I disagree with JHK for supporting Obama. He will not address the problems we face in any way more effectively than Romney.
    Vote 3rd Party

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  26. littlebear44 November 5, 2012 at 10:21 am #

    A longtime, dedicated reader and Long Emergency fan. I was in a spanking new Walmart for the pre-grand opening and thought of you. This began with the local Boy Scouts proudly displaying the colors of the state, BSA ( I have a son in the BSA) and USA followed by a rousing chant of “Walmart, Walmart, Walmart….” by the audiences of three or 400. There was clapping and jumping, the release of balloons and lastly, a giveaway to the faithful of high fructose snacks as all the exercise had parched the minions. This was preceded by a formal introduction of the department managers as if they were the starting lineup in the Super Bowl. To say the least, it was trippy and I was quickly taken to images Nuremburg or Jonestown. Most probably went along with the celebration to fit in. I was freaked out. Well my curiosity got the better of me. We decided to examine the store for real yesterday and completed some simple household goods shopping that we, like most Americans have time for on weekends. The store, open 24/7 was not crowded at noon on a Sunday, certainly not what one would expect from something this large but the NFL and Nascar were lurking due north in the average timeline. We carefully noticed the prices were not lower and checkout service much worse, than our usual monolithic merchant weekend destinations, interestingly, leaving a false sense of what Wally World really delivers. It is price, right? The real joy was casually observing the clientele. Interspersed among the normal looking, mostly elderly folk buying toothpaste wandered a hapless krew of meth heads dressed appropriately, tatooed, pierced and exhibiting blank stare, after blank stare, after blank stare. This particular Walmart was very,very controversial politically and came in only on the promise of tax revenue as the school system (rural Virginia) was in serious need. We have decided we’ll drive the extra ten miles round trip to accomplish the weekly thrust in Americana. I hope you read this and as always, we love your blog.

  27. Max November 5, 2012 at 10:21 am #

    Mr. Romney’s business skill sets are markedly different than the historical entrepreneurial class who conceived ideas, products, and processes and brought them to market, creating jobs and prosperity to the many. Romney made his career in the realm of financial engineering, which extracts wealth from existing businesses under the guise of returning value and efficiency. Those competencies more associated the dismemberment and cannibalization of existing structures which by what he’s stated and not stated – appears to be his charge in lieu of leading the nation through its great contraction.

  28. DurangoKid November 5, 2012 at 10:24 am #

    The story to watch is how the east coast will recover from Sandy. How much infrastructure will be repaired, replaced, or abandoned? This is where energy and finance will have to come together or the society of happy motoring will retreat. Some parts of the recovery could take years and others may not happen at all. And then comes the next big storm or fire or earthquake. Nature will nibble around the edges as if our occupation of the land is some big novelty cookie. A bite here, some crumbs there.

  29. Dirk November 5, 2012 at 10:25 am #

    What a load. The only thing Misfit Mitt has ‘leveraged’ is huge personal gain at the expense of American jobs by offshoring the same. Not to mention the offshoring of all that personal wealth to avoid paying taxes on it. He is a wealthy elitist who could give a shit about America unless he can make a profit from it.

  30. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 10:34 am #

    Very nice column today, JHK.
    After taking down both Mitt and Obama, it would have been a very short step to vote for Stein. Against all odds Jill Stein was able to get on most state ballots. I would like to see a woman president who has progressive ideas.

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  31. ian807 November 5, 2012 at 10:38 am #

    The black swan has laid her egg in New York and its hatching promises to be difficult, long and painful.
    I predict that many Obama voters will be kept from the polls, either deliberately, or by dint of the fact that getting anyone to the polls will be too difficult. As in Florida, Republican attempts to game the election will probably reach a fever pitch. Whether they are successful remains to be seen.

  32. ozone November 5, 2012 at 10:38 am #

    “…Mr. Romney is just preying on the public’s wishful ignorance (or his own) when he says these things.” JHK
    Very good, Jim. A nice subtle twist to “willful ignorance”, which implies a good dose of belligerence. The unicorns-surfing-down-rainbows image is delightful and cuddly. ;o)
    Then, you sez:
    “[Romney] shamelessly panders to the worst elements of his own party – the ignorant, militaristic, punitive-minded Nascar evangelicals – and dissembles so automatically that there is nothing left of whatever core beliefs he might have theoretically developed earlier in his career.”
    Ah, now here I can help. A view from the hilltop of the damned; those who once sheltered under the wings of the angel, Moroni: former Morons… I mean, MORMONS (sorry Jen).
    Eye-opening and a little on the frighteningly deluded side, altogether, but the little section on “Sinning for Da Lawd” near the end is enlightening and properly paranoia-inducing.

  33. lsjogren November 5, 2012 at 10:38 am #

    For Obama supporters, it’s all about Romney, because there is nothing praiseworthy Obama has done nor will do as President.
    for Romney supporters, it’s all about Obama, because there is nothing praiseworthy Romney will do as President.

  34. lancemfoster November 5, 2012 at 10:40 am #

    Excellent column! I voted for Johnson. He was the only other choice on our Montana state ballot. In the past, I’ve voted for Bo Gritz and Ralph Nader, and if he’ll run, I’ll vote for Jesse Ventura in 2016.
    BTW, EXCELLENT essay from Chris Hedges this week (http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_sm_election_20121105/). A couple of quotes:
    “Anyone who wants to rule men first tries to humiliate them, to trick them out of their rights and their capacity for resistance, until they are as powerless before him as animals,” wrote Elias Canetti in “Crowds and Power.” “He uses them like animals and, even if he does not tell them so, in himself he always knows quite clearly that they mean just as little to him; when he speaks to his intimates he will call them sheep or cattle. His ultimate aim is to incorporate them into himself and to suck the substance out of them. What remains of them afterwards does not matter to him. The worse he has treated them, the more he despises them. When they are no more use at all, he disposes of them as he does excrement, simply seeing to it that they do not poison the air of his house.”
    Our masters rely on our labor to make them wealthy, on our children for cannon fodder in war and on our collective chants for adulation. They would otherwise happily slip us rat poison. When they retreat into their inner sanctums, which they keep hidden from public view, they speak in the cold words of manipulation, power and privilege, words that expose their visions of themselves as entitled and beyond the reach of morality or law.
    “Crowds have always undergone the influence of illusions,” wrote Gustave Le Bon, one of the first pioneers of the study of mass psychology. “Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.”
    The more we believe the lies that saturate our airwaves, the more we salute our “heroes” in Iraq or Afghanistan, the more we militarize social and political values, the more frightened we become, the more we bow down and clamor for enslavement, the more the elite detests us. We are, in their eyes, vermin. We have to be dealt with and controlled. At times we have to be placated. At other times we have to be repressed and even killed. But we are a headache. Our existence interferes with the privileges of the ruling class.
    “Those who have put out the people’s eyes,” John Milton wrote, “reproach them of their blindness.”
    The only recognizable basis for moral and political authority, in the eyes of the elite, is the attainment of material success and power. It does not matter how it is gotten. The role of education, the elites believe, is to train us vocationally for our allotted positions and assure proper deference to the wealthy. Disciplines that prod us to think are—and the sneering elites are not wrong about this—“political,” “leftist,” “liberal” or “subversive.” And schools and universities across the country are effectively stomping out these disciplines. The elites know, as Canetti wrote, that once we stop thinking we become a herd. We react to every new stimulus as if we were rats crammed into a cage. When the elites push the button we jump. It is collective sadomasochism. And we will get a good look at it on Election Day.

  35. horseoutside November 5, 2012 at 10:40 am #


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  36. lsjogren November 5, 2012 at 10:41 am #

    “As in Florida, Republican attempts to game the election will probably reach a fever pitch.”
    Your tinfoil hat is more fashionable than the one worn by the advocates of “energy independence”.

  37. horseoutside November 5, 2012 at 10:41 am #


  38. ozone November 5, 2012 at 10:42 am #

    Congrats! You win!
    That has got to be the driest piece of satire I’ve ever had the pleasure of reading in my entire misspent life! ;o)

  39. popcine November 5, 2012 at 10:43 am #

    Gerald Celente’s prediction, soon after Mitt got the nomination, was that Obama would be re-elected because Americans would never vote for a Mormon. Your column demonstrates his logic. Congratulations. Maybe he’ll send you a thank you note.
    I don’t think there’s any criticism you’ve made about Mitt here that doesn’t apply as well to Obama, except the religious ones.
    For me, the budget deficit trumps everything. Not only are we being robbed, we’re going to get ourselves killed. By by a runaway military, ours and theirs. Money is both the cause and result of this war.
    “What war?” you ask. Well, there’s only one, it’s never-ending, and it’s mainly in the mideast. It’s an oil war, if a reason must be given, but really, it’s all just insane.
    Now Mitt, he’s an unknown. Never mind what he says or doesn’t. All that stuff is just what his PR people tell him to say. We can’t really know what he would do. So maybe it would be better, at least we could hope.
    –TPS, Monday am

  40. Tancred November 5, 2012 at 10:44 am #

    Hey Dirk and Bearfoot.
    I’m glad you called me out, because that WAS a “load” intended to mock the corporatists, most of whom speak in such bromides and meaningless “tag lines.” I hate the way that they have mangled meaning and language through their double-speak. That said, Obama does the same thing with his “Forward” mantra, so the well of political discourse is already poisoned…
    Hope I didn’t raise your blood pressure too much.

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  41. Piper Michael November 5, 2012 at 10:45 am #

    Oh James,
    Haven’t you heard?
    Peak oil is … so over!
    Porter Stansberry has announced the biggest oil play of the century… that will make Saudi Look like a pond… that America will become an oil and natgas exporter again!
    Oh James, James… so right yet so wrong…
    Seriously… one doesn’t know what to believe anymore sir. Could you check into this? Give us a little clue? It would go a long ways to establish your bona fides. Brilliant and scholarly cynical tomes do not make for data.
    Will this drill baby drill, and frack the earth mantra, turn CONUS into a land of stinking water tables and sinkholes? Especially after December when we enter the Galactic Rift, and the dark energy compression starts working on the sol system and all the minds in it. For something wicked this way comes. (The Piper predicted magnetic bubbles would be detected, that the ‘scientists’ don’t understand. Well, looks like I was right…look it up. NatGeo)
    We are more fooked than you know.

  42. horseoutside November 5, 2012 at 10:48 am #

    I can readily imagine Carnival Barker Mitt Romney making “President” of Snake Oil USA, in as much as there are enough credulous fools and simpering cretins who will be suckered into voting for him, to tip the balance in his favour.
    God help you all.
    It happened to us with Herr Harper.

  43. ozone November 5, 2012 at 10:49 am #

    Letting the Waltons take their pound of flesh out of a state’s wage-earners in exchange for a few trickle-down-the-pantleg tax shekels is a bit akin to a deal wid da Deb’bil, it appears.

  44. shankspony November 5, 2012 at 10:50 am #

    Sadly, even Jim doesn’t “get” the catastrophic impact of climate change. The Peak Oil phenomenon will provoke a gradual economic decline, but its all very predictable from market signals and pricing. Just do the math. The impact of catastrophic climate change is of the kind that causes the COLLAPSE of civilization, sudden overwhelming, catastrophic collapse [Joseph Tainter, Jared Diamond]. Every impact that people usually attribute to Peak Oil: no electricity, no gasoline, no food, no water, no housing, no transportation, no communication systems, no functional governments, no hospitals or health care–these are all directly attributable to the impacts of CLIMATE CHANGE and catastrophes like Hurricanes Katrina, Irene and Sandy. Please, Jim, somebody, please “get” this for once.

  45. Zev Paiss November 5, 2012 at 10:55 am #

    The path to Energy Independence will be long and complicated but a path we must plan to take no matter what. Success will require a massive reduction in the amount of energy we use and this will be the result of increased efficiency in the way we do almost everything.
    If you want to see a glimpse of what that world might look and feel, pick up a copy of the novel From Here to There, an inspiritng novel that shows us how the future can be better.

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  46. tstreet November 5, 2012 at 10:56 am #

    Voting for Romney is a vote for descent into the maelstrom of utter ignorance, denial, and mendacity. Obama does not have any real solutions to our problems on the front burner, but at least he has not entered the realm of utter absurdity. Not much of an endorsement, I know, but that is where we are in the second decade of the 21st Century.

  47. lancemfoster November 5, 2012 at 10:59 am #

    shankspony, each of the bloggers I follow get only part of it, or at least only post about part of it. Same with Greer and Orlov, both of whom I follow along with Kunstler. Bageant was the other of my Four, but he’s sadly gone now. Each adds to the picture. There are three BIG things:
    1. Climate Change w/ Environmental Toxicity-Collapse
    2. Peak Oil / end of cheap energy of any kind
    3. Societal-Economic Collapse w/ increase in internal crime/hostilities/corruption and external wars over resources
    Each of those bloggers, including JHK, tend to really focus on only one most of the time, sometimes two. I have yet to see anyone integrate all three.

  48. J Lee November 5, 2012 at 11:00 am #

    Vote for the one who provided the biggest give-away to the banks in the history of the universe? Vote for the one who has continued the “good war” for another four years and counting? Vote for the one who forced 3o million people to become customers of medical ripoff insurance? Vote for the one who has brought into law by executive orders the spying on regular americans? Vote for the one who regularly signs “orders-to-kill” for people and americans around the world? Vote for the one who continues with secret renditions and torture? Vote for the one who takes orders from Nutty-Netanyahoo? Guess again who I am not voting for.

  49. ozone November 5, 2012 at 11:01 am #

    Regarding your musings on 3rd parties, I would endorse Kyooshtik’s idea that the ballots IN EVERY STATE have the option of “none of the above” which would give us a glimpse into dissatisfaction with the entrenched system machinery. I think that’s important for all involved.

  50. asoka_ November 5, 2012 at 11:06 am #

    Here is the reality, once again, doomers:
    There are very strong indicators that the world is actually getting better for the majority of humanity–fewer wars, lower crime rates, incredible advances in communication, a dramatic democratization of information that promises to catalyze social transformation on a global scale… and the list goes on. Not to mention the steady rise of integral consciousness all across the planet, bringing us ever-closer to a cultural “tipping point”, in much the same way we saw with rational modernism during the European Renaissance, and postmodern pluralism in the 1960’s. This “tipping point” will allow us to find and enact integral solutions for our 21st century problems, with the measure of complexity, compassion, and consciousness that they demand.
    Needless to say, this is very good news.
    You are correct. I am not here to show you I am wrong. I am here to show you I am right. Just like back in 2008 when CFNers were saying Obama didn’t have a chance; the country wasn’t ready for a Black president, and I said Obama would be elected. I was right. Not because I made a lucky guess, but because I made reasoned and erudite arguments (not just offering opinions (like “We certainly don’t have an honest money system now”) and I provided evidence to back up my statements, just as I did today with the 22 polls in swing states showing Obama’s lead in increasing over Romney. And I have every right to continue to be here and continue to offer facts, statistics, and reasoned arguments backed by credible and authoritative sources. A statement of opinion (“he’s a puffed up nitwit”) without anything to back it up is irrelevant. I’m just glad you are reading and responding. I’m glad Procon is reading and responding. That kind of attention to my posts and the fact that y’all take the time to respond… why it just makes me purr like a cat.
    Peace has arrived. Times have never been better for human beings, though you would never know it if all you read was the doomster “we are so fucked” moaning and bitching on CFN.
    I make substantive posts, quoting JHK from today’s post, quoting JHK from a 2000 post on Y2K to illustrate his penchant to forecast the worst, in a short time frame, even though his predictions always fail. That is what I want to discuss: JHK’s posts.
    You guys are hurling all kinds of things at me, about me, about my posts, impersonating me, cutting and pasting my posts, calling me names.
    I think JHK allows freedom on this blog because it illustrates how a clusterfuck happens. Each week the content of my comments is ignored. Each week it devolves into ad hominem attack.
    It’s enough to make me suspect there may be some racists here who are reacting to something other than content. Yes, I just “played the race card.”
    How else to explain the CFN penchant of attacking me every week while ignoring the substance of my arguments? (Some, like XXX5, deny I even have the capacity to argue logically.)
    Assalaamu alaikum!
    Allahu Akbar! (???? ????)

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  51. ffkling November 5, 2012 at 11:10 am #

    Romney/Ryan Plan:
    Increase Defense Spending (We’re losing the race to build more battleships according to Romney, although Mitt may want to consult a military historian. Billy Mitchell proved battleships were obsolete due to aircraft in 1921).
    Cut Taxes.
    Budget magically balances.
    This is like deja vu all over again.

  52. debt November 5, 2012 at 11:12 am #

    I feel your pain, soak. Really, I do.

  53. ffkling November 5, 2012 at 11:19 am #

    “Asoka” says be happy do not worry.
    Tell that to the natural world. Every 24 hours on average 200 animal and plant species are driven extinct while during this same time period the human population cranks in another net gain of 265,000.
    Chytrid, White Nose Syndrome, Colony Collapse Disorder are our canaries in the coal mine warning that the living planet is on the precipice of ecological ruin as the complex and inter-connected web of life is slowly but inexorably decimated.
    And some of you people support Romney and the Republicans- the very same people who presented a bill to eliminate the highly successful Endangered Species Act?
    Does not preservation of our only home matter in your myopic decision making?

  54. sooty November 5, 2012 at 11:24 am #

    Just tried this link and it’s incredibly amateurish; I tracked around but it never got to any cogent point. Finally gave up. Less a hammer than water torture.

  55. azgog November 5, 2012 at 11:32 am #

    Agree, Climate Change is going to be an even bigger immediate challenge than running out of cheap energy, especially while running out of cheap energy. Drought, wildfire, superstorms and heat waves – if widespread enough will become unsurvivable. Dealing with the consequences also requires burning yet more fuel for evacuations and rebuilding, a vicious downward spiral of entropy.

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  56. newworld November 5, 2012 at 11:37 am #

    One of the better lesser of two evils essays written this cycle.
    Still I’m going to vote with my white tribesmen and vote for Mitt.
    Its a new era you parasites.

  57. GAZ November 5, 2012 at 11:53 am #

    Here is the reality ASOKA.
    The natural carrying capacity of humans on planet earth was approximately 1 billion for thousands of years. The population is now approximatley 7 billion. Look at world population growth charts and you will see that the rate of growth basically goes straight up in the mid-1800’s (Hello!…Fossil Fuels!)
    Too many people is the root of every problem we have right now. But don’t worry, Mother Nature is going to start taking out the garbage because trash day is coming soon.

  58. LifeSupport November 5, 2012 at 11:53 am #

    Total collapse of civilization is the extreme end of what I would see as a gradient. Interruptions of services (power, water treatment, law enforcement, etc) begin to be more frequent, less localized, and longer in duration. There begin to be more places where they are essentially permanent. People adjust. Social order can become a lot less orderly before it constitutes a “collapse of civilization”.
    It’s obvious that some rather large communities are doomed due to their unfortunate locations. Las Vegas society (or, if you insist, civilization) will collapse much sooner than in many places which have important resources close at hand — water being the first to come to mind. I wouldn’t want to be in Phoenix or LA during any one of the nasty oil price shocks we can expect to begin seeing soon, but there’s a big difference between life in Phoenix with gas at twenty bucks a gallon and life in Phoenix with gas at twenty bucks a gallon and the lights off. In August.
    That’s where I really draw the line. My life won’t work at all without electricity. I find at least some small hope in the observation that the U.S. does not rely much on the use of oil to generate electricity, at least not directly (less than one percent, in fact).
    As JHK notes, our civilization could be made much more resiliant to climate change and other threats by more electrification of our transportation sector (trains in particular), but then, there is the unfortunate fact that we’re several decades late in putting that plan into action.

  59. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 11:54 am #

    Someone is impersonating me. Asoka_ is not me.
    I am Asoka..
    Asoka_ does not even do a good job of parroting me. He/she strings together parts of my previous posts and it comes out without smooth paragraph transitions. C’est la vie.
    I’m just trying to save people time: don’t respond to Asoka_ posts. Mass shunning, as XXX5 recommends.

  60. orbit7er November 5, 2012 at 11:56 am #

    Here from the midst of the devastation in New Jersey I have some observations. One is that thanks to my long preparations for Peak Oil and Climate Change disasters, my family did not suffer too badly. I have a handcrank Eton radio which kept us aware of the news even when the power went out. Thanks to 2 small batteries Tuesday nite we had a party with our neighbors who all had their power out with a small Led bright enough for parcheesi playing while we played acoustic guitars. With another solar panel it could have been recharged even after the storm. Unfortunately Teabag Gov Christie, despite his commendable engagement in the crisis for which he deserves praise, still is totally unable to see anything past his Escalade SUV Transit. While NYC ran buses when subways could not go through flooded tunnels, NJ is facing hours long gas lines and the only buses added are for New York only. When I caught a ride to work since 90% of our Rail lines are still down, unlike NYC, 90% of the cars still had only ONE rider! Every gas station faced a long line.

    The success of reduced consumption, solar plus batteries shows what could be possible in a truly resilient distributed Peak Oil infrastructure. Unfortunately a major drawback of grid-connected solar under current rules is that as soon as the grid goes down you lose ALL power even if your solar could generate electricity off the grid sufficient for priority electricity. The grocery store a short walk from my house has solar panels but due to this idiotic provision could not supply power to their freezers even though the sun was partially shining.

    The other lesson is that COMMUNITIES and people helping each other has helped people to survive. Except for tensions for GASOLINE no guns, bandits or marauders. My community IS a walkable community so people could get power, and heat at our community building and later Internet at the library. If public schools and buildings with enough solar had solar panels with battery backup they could provide key refuges as these events continue to repeat. Which also shows the importance of PUBLIC schools not cannibalized by the Hedge Fund banksters out to steal more billions from our public schools and leave them empty husks.

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  61. Whomeesa November 5, 2012 at 11:57 am #

    A vote for Obambi is a vote not to burn this motherf***er down!

  62. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 12:00 pm #

    trash day is coming soon.
    Look, I don’t know if you were around (and ecologically conscious) in 1969. I was.
    I read Ehrlich’s Population Bomb. I got a vasectomy so as not to add to the population, resource depletion, and environmental contamination. You are preaching to the choir.
    PS. The post you are responding to is Asoka_ which is not the real Asoka.. (I am Asoka period period).
    We go through this every week.
    I think my bona fides on overpopulation are impeccable. I gave up having a family for Mother Earth.

  63. NMObserver November 5, 2012 at 12:01 pm #

    Thanks James for writing every week. I look forward to it.
    I cannot vote for Romney because he’s a coward and he does not seem to have a clue about reality. That’s not suprising given that he’s a member of a recently invented religion that encourages delusional thinking.
    I cannot vote for Obama because of his “executive” order that completely defies the law and Congress’ wishes by providing amnesty for foreign nationals living in the US in violation of immigration laws because they were brought here as children. At the same time his attorney general brings lawsuits against the states that try to fix the immigration mess that the federal government creates by not enforcing immigration laws. He seems just a bit too eager to replace the American populace with people of his own choosing. It appears that for Obama the rule of law is only important when it suits his ideology.
    On immigration, Romney is just bad. He’s mentioned that getting a Dream Act passed would be one of his priorities. Why are these candidates so obsessed with replacing US citizens with foreign nationals? What’s up with that?
    The third party candidates are no better on immigration. However, being from NM, I have some experience and knowledge about Gary Johnson. As I recall, he was a good governor. He was really good at handling the corrupt state legislature and he never let them push him around. (NM is a really corrupt state.)Also, he streamlined the horrendous Dept. of Motor Vehicles. He privatized lots of their functions and made it possible for there to be lots of mini sub-stations where one could get one’s DMV business taken care of quickly. It’s made a real difference. Going to get your license or get license plates is now not the nightmarish ordeal it used to be.
    Jill Stein sounds good, but she seems to pie-in-the-sky for me.
    So, I guess in order to register a protest vote, I’ll vote for Gary Johnson. Like ozone above, I wish we had the option of “none of the above”.

  64. anotherplayaguy November 5, 2012 at 12:02 pm #

    “When it does, it will be much bigger deal politically than was the case in Biloxi, Mississippi, or the 9th Ward of New Orleans, where people were more accustomed to the cruel boot of authority, not to mention the frequent tantrums of a subtropical ocean.”
    And let’s not forget that New Orleans during Katrina was predominantly black. New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania — not so much.

  65. anti soak November 5, 2012 at 12:07 pm #

    Cool that there are new names posting here.
    I thought asoka had ‘strangled the life out of this commons’.
    I disagree with JHK and some here, as BHO is anti American, anti White AND signed that bill removing Habeas Corpus [?]!
    Remember when Obama signed NDAA on new years eve?
    Blacks know to vote their self interest!
    New dept of Afrikaner education, EBT, etc.
    Why dont Whites know to vote their self interest?

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  66. Belisarius November 5, 2012 at 12:17 pm #

    I’m not voting for either of the corp-rat candidates either. We agree there.
    “Oh, look, the carboned atmosphere induced overly-heated ocean is sending another 100 year storm into NYC.”
    Yes the ocean is heating, and that is responsible for increased storm intensity, and yes many more “interesting” and deadly storms seem likely in the near future.
    But it is the ocean that is heating the atmosphere, not vice versa. A perusal of the charts available here
    might convince you that the ocean is heating faster than the atmosphere. Any heating contractor can tell you that it is much easier to heat air with warm water than it is to heat water with warm air because the water has much more thermal density. A warming ocean also gives up its CO2 just like a warming beer or soda does.

  67. Tancred November 5, 2012 at 12:18 pm #

    How are we (and are we willing?) to reconcile what many see as anthropogenic global warming with past heating (Permian Extinction) and cooling (Ice Ages). Doesn’t JHK find it ironic that he writes from a place that was totally covered in thick ice during the last glaciation? The only explanation is an extreme human hubris, somehow thinking that we (or even all life on earth) are intrinsically “important.” Even with the erosion of supernatural belief systems, we still seem to think and behave as if “we” are different than other living things; things that, over the course of billions of years, come and go with great frequency. I’m sorry to tell you folks that we’re just not that great, and our doomed planet doesn’t give a shit because its a blob of matter in space that will eventually be burnt to a crisp by our dying sun. That said, I bet Romeny is the type that would still strap his dog to the roof of his rocket ship to the corporate colony on Mars.

  68. RyeBeachBum November 5, 2012 at 12:24 pm #

    If Mitt is craven how about President Obama, after the storm he said Americans leave no one behind, I guess that is how he refers to how he watched for 7 hours, while Islamo fascists murdered our Ambassador and other Americans in Benghazi the he brought back the bodies for a photo op where Joe Biden insulted one of our dead heroes in front of the family, and Hillary lied about how it was not terrorist but a violent movie review.
    As for Daddy issues Barry has a ton of them as well, he wrote a book about it for goodness sakes.

  69. Goat1080 November 5, 2012 at 12:31 pm #

    Solar Guy, yes, I recently bought a bank of deep-cycle storage batteries for my solar system – half the lights in the house are on this “back-up” system. As they say, you never know when mother nature will strike and it is good to be prepared.

  70. ptolemy2 November 5, 2012 at 12:36 pm #

    Did you hear about the Hurricane Sandy cocktail? It’s basically a watered down Manhatten

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  71. GAZ November 5, 2012 at 12:39 pm #

    I’m 55 with no children as is my wife. Our marriage is the second for both of us, no children. I grew up poor and white in a very black (now hispainc) part of Long Beach Ca.
    My wife grew up on military bases all over the world.
    Neither of us EVER wanted kids. Sorry for the confusion.
    No matter what happens, were all in it together.

  72. Belisarius November 5, 2012 at 12:40 pm #

    Folks tell me they are going to vote O’Bummer or Ro’Money because either is a lesser evil. I say why not write in Satan? If you want evil, go all the way!
    Personally, I think Romney is the better evil choice, because his evil is more visable! His open bat over the head being prefered to a hidden knife in the back. I am not forced to choose evil though, so I won’t, though evil likely wins anyway.
    I feel like a vegan being asked to vote for cannibal chief. So I will vote for another for Emperor, or not vote for Emperor at all. Exactly why do we need one??

  73. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 12:42 pm #

    I thought asoka had ‘strangled the life out of this commons’.
    anti soak, I do not have the power to force anyone to leave this forum. People make their own decisions and should accept responsibility for their own actions. BTW, in addition to mass shunning in replying to Asoka, try not to even mention Asoka. It only encourages him.

  74. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 12:51 pm #

    . Sorry for the confusion.
    No matter what happens, were all in it together.
    No problem.
    Yes, we are in this energy descent together and it will bring out good qualities in us that we don’t even know we have, it will improve our health, and it will improve our mental health. Already has in my case by helping me in losing excess belongings, excess weight, and excess worries.
    But I have also gained new skills, new friends, and a new optimism. It’s all good.

  75. LifeSupport November 5, 2012 at 12:52 pm #

    There are reasons why grid-connected solar goes down with the grid. One assumption built into the system is that if there’s an outage, it’s most likely to be due to something local such as tree meets power line. You got guys out there working to fix that and somebody’s feeding power to the grid, those guys get lit up. Plus, if you’ve got a bunch of stuff plugged into a system that usually provides a steady 100 amps and you try to make a sudden switch to a system that’s providing something closer to 25 — and intermittently at that — you’ve got a whole new set of problems. Unfortunately, batteries are a major pain in the ass, and fiendishly inefficient to boot. No free lunch with energy. Pity, that.

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  76. Radu Voda November 5, 2012 at 12:53 pm #

    People can’t stand “wasting their vote” and being on the losing side. So instead of voting their conscience they “just do what they do” as lovelight said the other week. Most unwise. As the great Tai Chi master Cheng Man Ching said, One must invest in loss. That the only way things will ever change. Tragically, our system is designed to prevent change – the European say of proportional representation is much superior to our’s in terms of voting. Of course they don’t have a Bill of Right and thus have largely lost their right to bear arms and speak freely.
    I can understand though – I feel too feel the horror of four years of the hated other party – in my case Obama and the Democrats. Once he has appointed one more liberal to the Supreme Court the country will go down the toilet in no time at all. Any appeal against the U.N Small Arms Treaty will be thrown out and we will have the choice of disarm or fight. This is the general plan – go around the Constitution by appeal to International Laws and Trade Agreements. Romeny is also an Internationalist but a Neo Con one. That means War in the Middle East in service of our gallant little ally…the only “democracy” in the Middle East doncha know.

  77. Radu Voda November 5, 2012 at 12:58 pm #

    You say you are Asoka.. but you also seem to be asoka.. What gives?

  78. Belisarius November 5, 2012 at 1:01 pm #

    Happy trash day!
    The population graph is showing signs of topping now. Hasn’t started down yet, but that is inevitable. Like all such exponential graphs the downside is usually quite steep. Likely it goes well below carrying capacity, though few now alive (a Highlander maybe?) will notice.
    With centuries of population decline ahead no system dependent on growth will survive. Time to detach from those systems and teach your young to survive without them.

  79. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 1:05 pm #

    No free lunch with energy. Pity, that.
    Speak for yourself.
    I moved to the Southwest to avoid the Midwest/Northeast temperature extremes.
    The thermal mass of an adobe house, combined with passive solar energy, is my daily free energy lunch.
    With an adobe house almost zero energy input is required for heating/cooling because the thermal mass of the adobe bricks regulates interior temperature through the flywheel effect.
    With an off-grid solar panel, a few batteries, and LEDs, lighting is also solved. No monthly expense paying a light bill. More energy free lunch.

  80. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 1:07 pm #

    It’s confusing, I know. Why are you not asking the important question: what color are they?

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  81. GhostofGreed November 5, 2012 at 1:09 pm #

    Extremely disappointed that you’re voting for Obama. I recommend reading a little Chris Hedges… … He’s voting for Stein. There is no “lesser of two evils.” Obama is a liar and a puppet. For the first time in my life, I’m voting for a honest person, even though that person will not win. It doesn’t matter if Obama or Romney win. And Obama is as much of a war monger as any Republican before him. He has put us in several wars and will put us in more. Very disappointed, Mr. Kunstler.

  82. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 1:15 pm #

    Population will stabilize and it doesn’t have to happen through mass tragedy or in inhuman ways. The humane way is for birth rates to drop and balance with today’s lower death rates. Repeated studies in countries all around the world show that the longer children stay in school, the fewer children they will have. Smaller families can provide more resources for each child, and entire nations benefit when they have fewer children to drain their limited, declining resources. So education is the key to humane population stabilization. Especially the education and empowerment of women.

  83. Glensufi November 5, 2012 at 1:28 pm #

    There is an interesting side to this whole myth of energy independence for the USA. Seems to me since this is a global marketplace really no matter how much we extract if planetary demand keeps rising “our” fuels don’t have to stay here and if fact will be sold by ABC corp to the highest bidder.

  84. Radu Voda November 5, 2012 at 1:35 pm #

    Good article on why Mitt’s the worst of all possible worlds. The Country is lost and nothing remains but to convince other Whites – and thus perception is everything…

  85. Radu Voda November 5, 2012 at 1:37 pm #

    There’s the small a again but you answer as the big A for Asshole.
    Fess up: how many accounts do you have?

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  86. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 1:38 pm #


  87. LifeSupport November 5, 2012 at 1:39 pm #

    When I speak of “no free lunch”, I’m not necessarily talking about money. Passive solar should be a no-brainer. Once was, will be again, not quite there yet. (Not EVEN there yet).
    Photovoltaic to battery storage offers independence (if less convenience than grid-connected solar), but it’s filthy with energy inefficiencies. Even once the embedded energy debt is paid off, you still lose a lot of potential energy discharging and recharging those batteries. Is all I’m sayin’.
    I see a lot more use of solar thermal in our future, a lot of it small-scale, and jury-rigged on the fly. Once you quit looking for your energy to come from someplace else, you start seeing possibilities you never noticed before. Nothing quite like desperate need to get the creative juices flowing.

  88. RyeBeachBum November 5, 2012 at 1:39 pm #

    Obama’s new battle cry is to lean forward, if he wins reelection it will soon enough switch to what he really means which is to be bend over, Jim why you are voting for Obama is beyond me, especially since you have so many time correctly elucidated how inept and incompetent he really is, as you live in NY and he is going to win any way, if I had that luxury I would vote for Gary Johnson, but as I live in a so called battleground state where the election is a statistical tie I am going to vote for Romney, if for nothing else than Obama is a such a total asshole.

  89. Radu Voda November 5, 2012 at 1:40 pm #

    Here’s the missing link:

  90. Radu Voda November 5, 2012 at 1:42 pm #

    Then why the alternation between small a and capital A?

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  91. djc November 5, 2012 at 1:44 pm #

    I offer this observation up only as information for the CFN. I live in in NE Ohio which normally votes Democratic and there has been a fairly consistent swing towards Romney and away from Obama in the past 36 hours. ALL of the undecideds (who were Obama voters in 08) in my neck of the woods are voting for Romney, all of them. Obama won’t carry Cuyahoga County (Cleveland and suburbs) by near the same margin as ’08 which translates into a win for Romney.
    There is no need to argue back and forth as we’ll know the results in a couple of days.

  92. Inquiring Mind November 5, 2012 at 1:48 pm #


  93. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 2:06 pm #

    The domestic oil picture is a complex one. The US is the most well-explored territory for petroleum on the planet. There are more wells here in raw numbers than in any other country on the planet, something like a half million of them.
    There have been production upswings lately because of many factors. Enhanced Oil Recovery (EOR) is a set of methods for extracting from previously dead or moribund fields. Some of these methods are controversial, such as injecting natural gas or water into the ground, which may have pretty severe environmental side effects, yet to be fully determined. Other methods, such as side drilling, are technically intensive but comparatively more benign. This set of tools has allowed oil output to increase in older fields, especially in California and Texas. I wish I could remember the paper on the California oil fields which talked about this in detail.
    Then there are the oil shale and the tar sands, of which, I’m not really qualified to discuss in detail. Suffice to say that the technical knowledge has increased to the point that these MAY be viable alternative sources with a positive EROEI. Of course, the costs of doing business here, in monetary, environmental, and resource terms, is immense. Simply look up a youtube video (or other) on the Canadian tar sands pits. It will make you sick to your stomach. So much fresh water is used at these facilities that you basically get a vast, polluted lake around it. I’m not sure it is long-term viable, though we’ve shown that we’re willing to do almost anything to keep the carbon resources flowing, including going to war and ruining the environment.
    Next you have the offshore drilling bonanza, and it has really been a party. In the last 20 years, many technically remarkable offshore drilling platforms have come online. There is a map of these I found which was truly amazing. The technical challenges here, though, are non-trivial. I saw a presentation about how these drills work, and I was truly amazed. It is all about, apparently, synthetic mud. But, anyways, the problem here is really the potential for massive environmental disaster of the acute rather than chronic kind, e.g. events like the BP disaster. It only takes a few of these to sour the public on the idea of offshore drilling next to where they live. And since oil is not necessarily distributed according to where people do or don’t live (there are a lot of humans along the Gulf Coast and along big oil reserves offshore), we may have a problem here, Houston.
    Does this mean the US can achieve energy independence? Nope. But as far as it goes, between the diverse foreign suppliers and a large domestic industry, the US is not in that bad a place when it comes to oil. The two real problem areas that I see in the world are SE Asia, which has little reserves compared to its populations, and Europe, which basically has none either. These are going to be the hot spots as far as Peak Oil, at least initially. Europe is basically hostage to Russia for its natural gas supplies. Japan imports almost 100% of its oil supply. How is this going to play out in the long term? I can’t see it being very pretty.
    And can we please stop calling it production? Oil is extracted from the ground. Except on a multi-hundred million year time scale, Mother Nature is not creating any more of it. For all intents and purposes, it is a finite, non-renewable resource, like gold or platinum. So let’s call it extraction, because that’s exactly what we’re doing, extracting it from the ground.

  94. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 2:07 pm #

    Doesn’t this just make you want to weep?

  95. Radu Voda November 5, 2012 at 2:09 pm #

    Obama and/or the people behind him, stood up to Netanyahu or else we’d already be bombing Iran. Unless they’re just holding off until after the election.

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  96. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 2:13 pm #

    Of course it does. What a nonsensical statement.
    The degree to which it will affect your future and your progeny’s is debatable, but that it will have some noticable one is elementary. Obama and Romney are NOT the same. They don’t subscribe to the same belief systems. They want to cater to different constituencies. They have differing views on almost everything, though you couldn’t necessarily tell by Romney’s flip-flopping and Etch-a-sketching.
    Here’s what I mean. Obama has ended US boots-on-the-ground involvment in Iraq. He has set a timetable for pulling out of Afghanistan. Now, drone strikes are up, sure, but as far as major engagements, the US is pulling back.
    The last Republican got us into these two messes in the first place, or at least the quagmire-like form they eventually took was his fault. And Romney is a Republican, who, if not cut from the same mold, is at least baked in the same kitchen.
    So you’re basically telling me whether or not we get into major ground wars has no effect on you or your children. Because one side is not interested in starting any more of them, and the other apparently wants to start WWIII with China and Iran.

  97. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 2:15 pm #

    “I am going to vote for Romney, if for nothing else than Obama is a such a total asshole.”
    Oh, the irony. Your A-hole detector is, apparently, not calibrated very accurately.

  98. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 2:17 pm #

    I was watching some George Carlin clips on youtube last night. He had a very interesting perspective as a dyed in the wool doomer. He said that he thought America was “circling the drain” and that it was only the endgame being played out now. I wonder what he meant by this and if he had some awareness of Peak Oil. Most of his comments had more to do with class politics, but to me this is only the tip of the iceberg as far as what is really going on with humans and their situation here on Momma Earth.

  99. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 2:20 pm #

    Was that all one sentence? Can I buy a period or two please? Geez.

  100. Inquiring Mind November 5, 2012 at 2:20 pm #


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  101. RyeBeachBum November 5, 2012 at 2:24 pm #

    Any one who prefers to go party with JZ in Vegas instead of going to the situation room and giving the order to send in the AC130 to save the lives of our embassy staff is an asshole, calibrated at 100 percent efficiency.

  102. KT November 5, 2012 at 2:24 pm #

    I pulled the lever for Obama, too. I never thought I would pull it for Romney, but I had been thinking of writing in Jill Stein. However, that would be a throwaway vote in my neck of the woods.
    At least Obama doesn’t try to ingratiate himself with the rabid right wing crowd.
    Maybe 2016 will bring a new kind of politician, one who understands the real challenges we face.

  103. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 2:27 pm #

    I apparently don’t “get” about half of America. I can hardly listen to Romney without getting a palatable feeling of disgust. He acts and talks like a used car salesman. Exactly what is the appeal for people? And, somehow, his wacky cult-religion was never brought up as an issue, though to me it is the biggest turn off of someone like this (among many of them).
    He’s a former vulture capitalist and a Mormon. O-k. I guess Jesus or that Josephy Smith fellow told you buy up profitable companies, saddle them with artificial debt, offshore their jobs to China, and then discard the used carcasses.
    How do these people live with themselves? Is it pure compartmentalization? Wolf in sheep’s clothing?
    Hypocrisy and cynicism is apparently the new black.
    What exactly do people feel Obama could have done better than he did? Or a better question, what did he do so poorly that they’d like to replace him with someone who is so obviously worse? I just don’t get it.
    I guess what I see is a bunch of religious people (e.g. a lot of Americans) who salivate like Pavlovian dogs when their key words of God, Jesus, and the Bible are mentioned. Nevermind any kind of rational analysis. You have them at “prayer.”

  104. mow November 5, 2012 at 2:30 pm #

    I knew it.

  105. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 2:33 pm #

    You’re a mar-oon, probably tuned in to Fox News.
    You know how many embassy staff died under GW’s watch? It was something like 50, yet nary a peep about it from the media then, and you probably weren’t even aware of it either. Out of sight, out of mind.
    And suddenly this one incident is like the New Pearl Harbor of the Republican Party.
    Hey, I didn’t hear this much of an outcry from their party about the combined Iraq and Afghanistan Wars, in which thousands died! A couple people at an embassy get caught in a bad chaotic situation, and now Republicans are all mock concerned about it. What a joke.
    What a bunch of clowns and you along with them.
    Send in the AC130? LMAO.
    Yeah, let’s just pulverize a couple blocks in a densly populated Libyan city. They’ll be no repercussion there at all I’m sure. Oh, and you know, the bombs on those things have magical friend or foe detectors so the shrapnel and fireballs don’t hurt the people we like. /sarcasm

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  106. ffkling November 5, 2012 at 2:34 pm #

    You are as disingenuous, if not more so, than the Mittster by pretending to imply that you just now made up your mind. Any individual who refers to Obama as “an asshole” consumed the Rush kool-aid months if not years ago. Save it for someone whose buying this line of BS.

  107. RyeBeachBum November 5, 2012 at 2:35 pm #

    Obama is going to lose, sorry to bring this up, but the fact is he has a failed presidency, he promised to cut the debt he added $6 trillion. He talked about bi partisanship he passed Obamacare without any GOP input, and with out reading it, He said he would have an open administration, he has stonewalled on Benghazi and the corrupt media has allowed him to do so. Obama wasted Billions of $ on things like Fisker and Solyndra giving forgivable loans to companies whose only qualifications are that their owners donated to his campaign. The Auto Bail out provided provided nothing more than as a vessel to turn the equity of the companies over to the Unions gave Chrysler to Fiat now GM is closing US plants and opening plants and R and D in China.
    Obama has lied and mismanaged this country and people know it. They will vote him out because if he is reelected the economy will collapse as small and medium business wind down and close to avoid confiscatory taxes Obamacare mandates and oppressive government regulations.

  108. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 2:35 pm #

    I think this Bum character might be one your garden variety Republican trolls. Just sayin.

  109. RyeBeachBum November 5, 2012 at 2:38 pm #

    I do not have to justify myself to you, but the fact is I always though he was inept and over his head, but his action during and after he let out people die in Behngahizi is why I consider him an asshole.

  110. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 2:41 pm #

    I can tell you have a balanced perspective.
    /more sarcasm
    How’s that single news source and its echo chambers treating you these days?
    So, let me get this straight, you actually think Romney and his cadre of Republican neo-clowns will do a better job at “managing” the country? (A distasteful corporate analogy, that.)
    Well, you know, no offense to your brilliant dissertation on Obama’s “failed presidency,” but were you in a coma from 2000-2008? Did you SEE what these Repubes did the last time they were in charge?
    Did you really expect Obama to clean up that god awful mess in 4 years, really?
    Anyways, you vote how you want there from within the spin zone. Don’t bother seeking alternate perspectives, because I guess you already know everything.

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  111. RyeBeachBum November 5, 2012 at 2:41 pm #

    So what if I am a Republican, what is your point? Or is it you argument that only people with your political point of view have a right to express their views, if that is the case then I can understand why you seem to be a Obama supporter.

  112. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 2:42 pm #

    If Obama is what you say he is then what exactly was George Bush? He sat there and read a story about pet goats while the Trade Center burned. I guess if your opinion of him is even lower, I’ll at least give you some points for it.

  113. neckflames November 5, 2012 at 2:51 pm #

    You’re one of them hippie folks from San Francisco, ain’t ya?

  114. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 2:51 pm #

    Of course, you can express whatever opinions you want, Bum. You don’t need my permission.
    But did you expect to regurgitate this right wing bile here and go unquestioned?
    I will say that you’re a bit hard to take seriously when you write like a 6th grader and separate your sentences with commas, whatever your political persuasion. Is English your 2nd language? I doubt it, because you’re probably too dense to have a second one.
    “So what if I am a Republican, what is your point?”
    Primarily, you’re just a moron and a clown. The political part is secondary. You’re just being played like a cheap fiddle by Faux News. You’re their primary target audience (uneducated, angry, bit low on brain power, probably religious too).
    If you’re working class and still a Republican, then, doubly so.
    Look, Obama hasn’t done a perfect job. But, by and large, he has not screwed things up too bad, and he’s implemented a lot of positive change. But one wouldn’t know it just by focusing on all the negatives, which is, apparently, your modus operandi. How about just a little balance?
    GW Bush did some positive things too. Like, um, he set aside a marine wildlife refuge or something. He also didn’t start a nuclear war. So I’ll give credit where it is due.

  115. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 2:53 pm #

    Hippies? Hm, what is this, 1968?

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  116. anti soak November 5, 2012 at 2:56 pm #

    ‘Did you really expect Obama to clean up that god awful mess in 4 years, really?’
    No, I only expected trouble from BHO, which is what we have gotten.
    Hope and Short changed.
    See the various posts this a.m. that have facts about what BHO did in the last 4 years.

  117. anti soak November 5, 2012 at 2:58 pm #

    ‘he’s implemented a lot of positive change’
    OK, no need to argue, please bullet point what good he has done.
    He and mochell cost more than the Royal Family.
    And this during the worst depression the USA has seen in 80? years.

  118. xport November 5, 2012 at 2:58 pm #

    So, we get to vote. Great choice, the guy that took the hot seat from the guy who crashed the economy vs the guy that wants to finish the job and make it medeviel, with the lords over the surfs.
    Talking about surf. At least the gov. of NJ, had the balls to man up and do his job. Kudos to Christie, he did his job, and continues to do the work that he was hired to do. There are so many people out there that do not do the job that they were hired to do. So, we have plenty to complain about. During the Vietnam war it was easy, just vote for bringing your son home. Stop the war!
    Now it is all confused. Vote to stop the madness,
    vote for a new vision and a way forward. The problem is that the candidates represent the old wave that wants to keep up the status quo. Nature has no time for humanity and the status quo.

  119. Majella November 5, 2012 at 3:03 pm #

    Wow…an irony-free ironic comment…

  120. neckflames November 5, 2012 at 3:08 pm #

    I would like to recommend the book entitled “The Kunstlercast”. It is a synopsis of the many Kunstlercasts done with Duncan Crary. I’m not big on sitting around listening to podcasts so I appreciated his effort to edit them into what was an enjoyable and informative read. It’s been out about a year so it’s not hot off the press. but I found it at my local library.
    Quote for the week:
    “The refusal of King George III to allow the colonies to operate an honest money system, which freed the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators was probably the prime cause of the revolution.”
    -Benjamin Franklin

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  121. RyeBeachBum November 5, 2012 at 3:11 pm #

    That you define a person who disagrees with you as an uneducated moron, or calling Fox news Faux News does not surprise me.
    “If you have nothing to run on make big elections about small things.” Right out of Saul Alinsky’s play book.

  122. Goat1080 November 5, 2012 at 3:12 pm #

    My solar system is totally “off-grid”, no grid-tie here. If the grid goes down, and it did once for five days, solar keeps chugging along. Not being grid tied has the added benefit that it does not “light up” utility workers trying to fix the power lines.

  123. Inquiring Mind November 5, 2012 at 3:12 pm #

    Here you are… analysing and arguing back and forth about the merits of these two candidates. And, the difference between the Republicans and the Democrats. Your attention fixated on these characters and the election. Just what the powers that be want. It’s the same mentality as sports fans all tied up in the NBA, NFL, NASCAR, golf, tennis, etc. Just what the powers that be want.
    You’re looking over there, but what really matters is what is happening over HERE.
    Noting changes. The masses have been being fooled and manipulated for a long long time.

  124. Goat1080 November 5, 2012 at 3:13 pm #

    With the notable exception of native Amercians, the USA is a nation of immigrants. So I don’t understand what the problem is with the Dream Act. Fortunately my ancestors were “allowed” into the country even though they were immigrants. Or maybe not???

  125. miner_tom November 5, 2012 at 3:17 pm #

    James, love your column, always have. I am curious about much of the information (or misinformation) that I have been coming across concerning large oil and gas discoveries within the lower 48, that have been claimed. From what I have been reading, and I am surely not completely satisfied with the integrity of the sources, there have been massive discoveries of oil in the last couple of years. For example
    I would love someone, anyone, to comment on the information contained herein.
    Keep up the fight.

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  126. neckflames November 5, 2012 at 3:18 pm #

    Asoka –
    You’re such a whiner. Nobody cares.
    But you are erudite. (Sarcasm on)

  127. JJF November 5, 2012 at 3:19 pm #

    There is no real choice. Both are darlings of Wall Street.
    Generation X will just have to do what the Lost Generation did during the depression, that is we’ll have to wait for enough Boomers to die off before anything meaningful can be done.
    The current “Generation-in-charge” has brought so much of their idiotic progressive and conservative baggage with them into power we’ll just have to wait for them to die off, because like the fools of FDR’s generation they will not give up on their stupid fantasy that they can control the “Great Unwashed”.
    Like our forebears that languished during the depression waiting for Roosevelt and his moronic policies to get the fuck out of the way we’ll be stuck in mire of Baby Boomer ideals. Look at who’s in charge, and look at who the pundits are…all Boomers.
    The Depression didn’t end because of WW2, it ended because Roosevelt finally ascended into that great country club in the sky and most of his ilk with him.
    Truman and Ike were a different breed and ushered in a new paradigm, one that no one in Roosevets generation could have foreseen, suburbia and interstates. Like them we will have our new paradigm, just have to wait a while.
    Peace out Boomers!

  128. Tancred November 5, 2012 at 3:20 pm #

    From a NYT blog:
    In Woodstock, Ga., about 30 miles north of Atlanta, the president of a homeowners’ association sent an e-mail on Sunday informing residents that the entrance gates would be closed 24 hours a day beginning at 6 p.m. Tuesday, out of concern over possible civil unrest after the election.
    “I feel it is better to take a position of caution to enhance controlled access to the community until we see what (if any) negative repercussions may occur because of the results of the election,” wrote Bill Stanley, the president of the homeowners’ association at the Cottages of Woodstock, a residential community for people 55 and over.

  129. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 3:25 pm #

    GW Bush did some positive things too. Like, um…
    Bush strengthened relations with east Asian democracies (Japan, South Korea, Australia) without causing a rift with China. Kind of nifty, that.
    But, for me, Bush’s major accomplishment is he let a shitload of immigrants into the country. Bush naturalized a record number of new Americans, over 1 million. I will always give him credit for that. That is one advantage of being a president who was a governor of Texas. Even Perry has a more compassionate position toward immigrants than Romney. Viva la reconquista!

  130. anti soak November 5, 2012 at 3:29 pm #

    awd site:
    New York Times best-selling author Brad Thor, based in Chicago, tells TheBlaze that the Obama campaign may be planning to preemptively announce victory in the presidential election based on early voting numbers in an attempt to “demoralize Mitt Romney supporters.”
    Citing a “very solid source” in Chicago, Thor says the Obama campaign is looking to make it appear to voters that they have “this thing sewed up and are less than 24 hours to victory,” according to his source.
    Meanwhile, team Obama will also urge voters to get out and vote so they can say they were part of the important 2012 election that resulted in a second term for Obama.
    While Thor can’t reveal his source, he told TheBlaze multiple times that the source is very reliable.
    The flip side of the coin, the author explained, is that the Obama campaign is counting on the mainstream media to drive home their narrative should they implement this strategy.
    Author Brad Thor………………………….

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  131. anti soak November 5, 2012 at 3:30 pm #

    Most in USA are not immigrants.

  132. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 3:41 pm #

    Here, let me Google that for you.
    Just type “Obama accomplishments” into ye old search box.
    Of course, you’ll take issue with each and every one of them, I suppose, but that’s yer deal.
    And, BTW, he’s not the dictator, m’k? This isn’t Soviet Russia. He cannot wave a magic wand and fix everything he thinks is broken, much less fix everything YOU think is broken.

  133. xport November 5, 2012 at 3:42 pm #

    The awful truth is that after the election we will get a piece of shit for a leader. So how do we go on from there?

  134. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 3:46 pm #

    Swingstate polls show Romney has a 13.7% chance of winning.
    Obama has an 86.3% chance of winning.
    13.7 to 86.3 … it’s a horse race! Not.

  135. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 3:48 pm #

    I have no problem questioning the education level (or intelligence?) of someone who separates four complete sentences with commas. You obviously never attended 5th grade English class, or you were too dense to absorb the material. Either way you’re not presenting yourself with even a basic level of grammatical clarity.
    I also do not associate in an iron-clad way conservative believes with lack of intelligence. There are some intelligent conservative commentators out there, like Victor Davis Hanson and Thomas Sowell, whom I disagree with on almost every issue, but I still recognize that they are intelligent and thoughtful people.
    As for the conservative base, however, I think the intelligence distribution is skewed to one side, at least from all the interactions I’ve had with self-styled Republicans and conservatives.
    You just have to observe how they try to bring religion into every political issue, when the country is self-evidently founded upon a separation of these two concerns. If that isn’t ignorance and intransigence, I don’t know what is then.

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  136. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 3:48 pm #

    And, BTW, he’s not the dictator…
    Turk, it’s even worse. He is the Messiah. Could have fixed everything, but didn’t. Apparently he needs another four years (and two supreme court appointments to fix things better).

  137. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 3:49 pm #

    How did you make it through the last twelve years?

  138. Anne November 5, 2012 at 3:56 pm #

    I have to vote my conscience, come what may. Romney is indeed an evil corporate shill but so is Obama. Obama kept many of Bush’s financial advisers and continued many of the same policies. Worse, he signed legislation to eliminate habeas corpus, which is the entire basis of our justice system. In my view, that makes him a traitor of the worst kind.
    If Romney gets in, we’ll likely have a Xian theocracy and a financial meltdown. If Romney doesn’t get in, we’ll likely have a Xian theocracy and a financial meltdown. Perhaps it will take slightly longer under Obama, but I doubt it will be noticeably different.
    I am voting for Jill Stein, who actually has ethics and a platform that makes some sense.

  139. Scotty November 5, 2012 at 4:15 pm #

    Well, that would be a very stupid strategy, anti-soak. The Obama campaign pre-emptively announcing victory today or early tomorrow would essentially guarantee that many of their supporters would stay home tomorrow, and no matter what the situation is in some key battleground states, they can’t afford that nationally, if for no other reason than to head off a possible loss in the national popular vote, even if Obama wins the EC.
    What you’ve really got there is a sophisticated GOP dirty trick…a “reputable, anonymous source” leaking to the media that the Obama campaign is so confident of victory that they’re going to pre-emptively announce it…the story spreads over the Interwebs like wildfire…and has the hoped-for effect of depressing Dem turnout just a little bit, which may be all that’s needed.

  140. xport November 5, 2012 at 4:30 pm #

    If you follow this blog, then you know that this is the part of the pattern to begin the beguine.
    We are to be witness to the end of times for the good times, and the end of times up to this point.
    So now we make it the way we want it to be.
    How shall it be?

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  141. xport November 5, 2012 at 4:33 pm #

    The point is that we do not have any control over the future and what it has in store for humanity.

  142. mistified November 5, 2012 at 4:37 pm #

    “…only hard work will solve the biggest issue we face now: an unstable and warming climate.”
    Uh-huh. You try and go sell that “warming climate” bullshit to the Jersey-ites waiting for FEMA to deliver them blankets. Their “biggest issue” is three hots and a cot.
    If you and Jimmy’s ilk think we can spend ourselves out of a warming planet you’ll have to do it on your own dime. I ain’t gonna contribute to that never-ending-rathole. Neither will anyone with a half of a half of a brain.

  143. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 4:41 pm #

    Some people, it seems, want to see only malice and evil in our current president, without giving him any points for his accomplishments. To me, it seems like the flip side to those people who could “see no evil” during the Bush presidency. How about a little balance and weighing of both sides?
    If your arguments about what Obama supposedly “didn’t do” are the core of your beliefs, I question where you’re coming from. That’s generally a negative and somewhat impossible way to frame politics. There are always an infinite number of things that he could have done and didn’t. That’s the nature of life. How about focusing on what he actually did accomplish or at least giving credit where it is due? No political figure is going to go down some kind of check list and do everything you want them to do.
    I keep hearing that Obama has been soft on Wall Street. That is frankly a big load of hooey. Dodd-Frank was passed. Most of the major banks are under serious investigation by multiple branches of the government, etc. (I even read a piece in the Economist that somewhat convinced me perhaps there are too many investigations going on right now.)
    What more do you want him to do there?
    You want to see “heads roll.” Well, part of the problem is that much of what went on which caused the crisis was not actually illegal. So how do you prosecute people for it?
    Goldman Sachs has thrown its money almost entirely at Milton this time.
    So as far as each candidates capture by Wall Street, it should be clear what is the lesser of two evils. Though I won’t deny, the financial capture of the US government is pretty obvious and total. Again, I’m not sure if there are ANY electable candidates that can work outside this.
    Then we have the people who want to blame every problem in America on Obama.
    Well, get this. Obama does not control the world economy, and he does not, in general, control the behavior of multi-national corporations, even those based in the United States. These entities are fickle, and when they see better opportunities abroad than here, they go there. What do you expect Obama to do about it? That’s the nature of the system.
    What’s the way to combat this? Generally, there are two. You can have more government support of the economy, aka France and Germany. Or you can fashion the economic landscape to be more favorable to these entities. And both of these approaches have severe systemic problems. In the first, too much responsibility gets placed on the government for carrying the economy, and massive debts are created. In the second, there is a race to the bottom, as corporate tax rates are lowered to the level of zero.
    The reason Main Street American is suffering has more to do with the dynamics of monopoly, franchise, and late state capitalism. The big box stores like Wal-Mart, Home Depot, etc. have largely replaced the ecosystem of many small businesses supporting individual families. Instead, you get basically temporary workers without benefits working at a set wage for a mega-corporation that is not based where its stores are located.
    Again, what in heck do you expect one government official to do about all of this? Do you want him to make war upon corporate America? How can Obama help businesses? He cannot force people to frequent them when what they apparently want is Wal-mart and McDonalds.
    I just don’t get it. Think these things through, please. Blaming all the country’s problems on one person is just moronic. Obama cannot fix everything, especially those aspects of the economy and the world that are out of his control. If you expect this, then there is no political leader at all who will meet your criteria.
    What goes unsaid in the debate is the enormous power of huge corporations to both influence the political landscape and control the direction of the economy. The Economist had a graph that showed the cash savings of US corporations being 60% greater than the entire savings of the population. Isn’t there something out of whack here? If we really want to stop strangling the middle class, that money needs to be reclaimed from its moribund position in the lock box of corporate savings. That would get the economy moving and put money in people’s hands so they could breathe a little easier.
    And don’t tell me “they earned it.” Okay? From what I read, many billions of dollars have been funneled directly to corporations and banks from the Federal Reserve. Why not make the average person more a target for investment rather than gigantic mega-corporations? It is a matter of our ethics. Corporations have become people, and, not only that, we place more importance on them and their well-being than that of the average person.

  144. mistified November 5, 2012 at 4:43 pm #

    ” Here’s to hoping that the news media capital of North America being at the epicenter of the destruction will lead to a quicker and fuller recovery.

    Hope on, ya mope. The media capital has obscured any negative programs/attributes of Obama and his corrupt administration for 4 years. So now, they will enlighten us as to the inevitable ineptitudes of Sandy recovery management? Bwa, ha, ha,ha, ha,ha, ha,ha, ha,ha, ha,ha, ha,ha, ha,ha, ha,ha, ha,ha, ha,ha, ha! You funny.

  145. mistified November 5, 2012 at 4:49 pm #

    “I see Mitt as a real game changer that can take our country to the next level, moving forward.”
    If some one were to spike Mitt’s water, every day, for the next 4 years, with LSD…he would still function better in the office of the President than Barrack Obama has.

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  146. mistified November 5, 2012 at 4:53 pm #

    “What you’ve really got there is a sophisticated GOP dirty trick…”
    Bush’s fault. (Yawn.)

  147. mistified November 5, 2012 at 4:55 pm #

    “In Spain after ten months with Mariano Rajoy we need a bailout.”
    Don’t feel bad. Rumor has it that Chrysler will need another one soon. So too the state of California.

  148. mistified November 5, 2012 at 4:59 pm #

    “I have come to the conclusion that 3rd parties don’t have the giant machines behind them and cannot effect the big apparatus that is the USA today.”
    Really? How long did that take you?
    “I am going to a luncheon on Friday where Chris Hayes will be speaking and there is an emerging group of post Roosevelt economists who I hope will come up with an alternative view.”
    All living economists are “post Roosevelt economists”.

  149. mistified November 5, 2012 at 5:03 pm #

    “With the notable exception of native Amercians…’
    Wrong. They walked in from Asia via the Bering straight.

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  150. xport November 5, 2012 at 5:03 pm #

    It all comes down to this:
    Either you give a shit or you dont.
    We are all going to hell in a handbasket.
    Take your pick. How do you want to be screwed?

  151. mistified November 5, 2012 at 5:07 pm #

    “when the country is self-evidently founded upon a separation of these two concerns.”
    Wrong. Freedom “of” not freedom “from.” Founders were against the establishment of state sponsored religion as they should have been. They wrote about God, discussed him in legislative sessions and prayed for his guidance while the senate and congress were in session. Nice try, dimwit.

  152. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 5:19 pm #

    And how would you react if every single legislative proposal Romney offered was met with a Democratic filibuster, resulting in nothing getting done?
    The Republicans have deployed a historic record number of 374 filibusters to oppose Obama.
    The Republicans have blocked everything Obama tried to do. From Day One they met to commit treason against the United States. They said they were going to put party above country and make sure Obama was a one-term president. They signed pledges with Grover Norquist and refused to pass legislation that Norquist did not approve, even though voters did not vote to elect Norquist.
    How would you react if Democrats signed a pledge with Soros and voted down every Romney proposal because it did not meet with Soros’ approval?
    How would you react if Democrats met on Day One of a Romney presidency and vowed to do everything possible to make him a one-term president?
    How would you react if a President Romney changed positions to back Democratic legislation, only to have Democrats oppose Romney, even when he supported the Democrats’ own positions and their own legislation, just to make sure Romney had no record to run on?

  153. Scotty November 5, 2012 at 5:23 pm #

    Jim, Jim, Jim…you really lost me this week. What is this “lesser evil” voting nonsense?
    It should be crystal clear by now that both Obama and Romney are frauds and charlatans (although their particular versions of charlatanry are somewhat different). They both lie, obfuscate, and manipulate shamelessly on the campaign trail. They both support corporate oligarchy and kleptocracy and a burgeoning authoritarian police state at home, and neo-colonial/Grand Chessboard militarism abroad. They (and their parties) are both on board for a massive and unprecedented assault on social spending after the election is wrapped up. They both support giving Wall Street an essentially free hand to do as it pleases. They both support abandoning the working and middle classes to their unpleasant fates, so that the tiny wealthy minority can be coddled and privileged even more. They both pay only lip service to sustained high unemployment, steadily eroding incomes, rapidly expanding inequality, and the growth of a permanent underclass. Neither has an awareness of peak oil. Neither has an energy plan worth a damn. Neither wants to confront suburbia, and neither has a true willingness to confront climate change in more than a rhetorical fashion. Neither has a health care plan that will truly be beneficial to the populace and isn’t a sell-out and giveaway to the insurance companies. Both are on-board for military intervention in Syria and some sort of military action against Iran, if not outright war. Neither has a cogent plan for tackling the country’s growing indebtedness.
    Neither will be able to govern effectively, as there’s very little chance for a unified one-party rule in the executive and both houses of Congress for the next two years, and even if there is, the minority party in the Senate will hold the filibuster (although a Dem minority would almost certainly use the threat of it more selectively than the GOP minority did from 2009-2011).
    Both Obama and Romney differ more in tactics than in long-term goals. The means may differ (mildly), but the ends are largely the same. This is the same for their respective parties. Each plays its assigned, complementary role in the scripted theatre we call American politics and governance, and each has a different tactical approach to policy and PR, but the end results are largely indistinguishable: Corporate, free-market dominance and plutocracy; technophilia; eroded civil liberties; militarism and war.
    As for Supreme Court vacancies, rest assured that barring a death or severe health crisis, none of the court’s “liberals” will be going anywhere if Romney is elected, and none of the court’s “conservatives” will be going anywhere if Obama is re-elected. However, one or two justices may choose to retire if their perceived ideological ally is in the White House, with the end result likely to be no change in the court’s partisan or ideological balance (not that there’s much more than a marginal difference anyway). Stalemate.
    I guess the larger question is, for someone who keeps harping on epic collapse being right around the corner, if you truly believe in your rhetoric, then why would you advocate “lesser evilism”, voting to uphold the corrupt corporate political duopoly, and an implicit belief that incremental reformism is both possible and likely in our current dysfunctional system? Haven’t all of your non-fiction books and weekly columns on this site been extended arguments to the contrary? Or have I missed something? You wrote today like someone who wants to hedge his bets–who doesn’t fully embrace his own worldview.
    The unfortunate and unpleasant truth is that America is in both relative and absolute decline from the heights of “sole superpower” status, and that decline is coinciding with protracted global crises in cheap energy, resources, population, climate change, finance, and others. We are in the early stages of an epic global contraction. Reformism in America is dead, and the only prospect for massive and fundamental sociocultural, political, and economic change is in some form of collapse of the existing system, because barring that, the powers that be will keep pushing the existing system to its limits. The only way out of our crisis is through it–like an alcoholic, we’ll need to hit bottom before we can hope for any profound restructuring of society.
    Lesser evil voting is a joke, and the refuge of those who feel there is something of value left to salvage in our disaster of a political and electoral system. Principled third party voting or principled abstention from voting are the only viable and justifiable alternatives. Otherwise, no matter which individual or party you vote for, you’re just voting to uphold and perpetuate the corrupt fraud of our current system.

  154. Scotty November 5, 2012 at 5:26 pm #

    Who said anything about Bush, mistified?

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  155. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 5:28 pm #

    “How would you react”
    Who cares?
    I’m sure its reaction would be to troll kunstler.com some more.

  156. Widespreadpanic7 November 5, 2012 at 5:32 pm #

    … might as well have Obama at the helm when this sucker goes down.
    Remember when Obama claimed his election would cause sea levels to recede? That was 4 years ago, and sea level is pretty high right now, ‘specially in the NYC regions.

  157. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 5:41 pm #

    Scotty, that’s a lot of presumption in there.
    Painting both these guys with the same brush seems somewhat naive and disingenuous, just based on publically available information.
    For instance, I’ve heard numerous speeches by Obama’s DOE Secretary indicating he is perfectly aware of Peak Oil and its consequences. He has given lengthy presentations on it. And he meets regularly with the president. So I’m not sure how you’d assume Obama knows nothing about it. The situation is far from it.
    What do you expect him to do about it? America is a car nation. We love our autos, Peak Oil be damned. We’re gonna drive this thing into the ground, regardless of any official warnings about the Oil-pocalypse. We’re going to scorch the Middle East (already did) making sure we get that Go Juice. There’s only so much one person can do to affect this. Look at what happened to Jimmy Carter when he suggested (god forbid) that people wear a sweater instead of jacking up the heater. He was politically drawn and quartered, to the point where he’s still name dropped by Republicans as the worst president of all time (2nd? Obama of course!).
    Similarly with Romney, I’m sure he is perfectly aware of a lot of the things you mentioned.
    The question is, what to do about it? Many of the issues you mention are economic, and the president has only a limited ability to pull the economy in one way or the other. In fact, it seems that it is much easier to do damage than to help.
    You also said that Obama doesn’t care about unemployment, which is, of course, false. His very reelection depends upon him convincing people that things are better than four years ago and continuing to improve and unemployment numbers figure strongly into this equation. The job numbers are far better than they were at that time, and the economy has also improved significantly, at least being pulled back from the brink.
    “Principled third party voting or principled abstention from voting are the only viable and justifiable alternatives.”
    Principled, sure. But viable? Nope. The current system makes sure of that.
    “Corporate, free-market dominance and plutocracy; technophilia; eroded civil liberties; militarism and war.”
    If Obama is such a corporatist, then why all the bleating from the Republicans that he’s really a Socialist? I don’t get it.

  158. sheppard November 5, 2012 at 5:41 pm #

    Doesn’t it bother you Americans that Tagg Romney, son of Mitt, has bought up a whack of electronic voting machines, including the ones for Ohio? It bothers us north of your border.

  159. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 5:43 pm #

    “The job numbers are far better than they were at that time”
    Clarification: I meant that the number of net jobs being created every month exceeds those being lost, which was not the case 4 years ago when Obama took over.

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  160. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 5:45 pm #

    “It bothers us north of your border.”
    I’m sure there’s a lot of things that bother you guys. Haha. That being only one of them, I presume…

  161. Scotty November 5, 2012 at 5:48 pm #

    No, mistified, you’re the dimwit. The separation of church and state was meant to insulate each from the other–it was two-way, not one-way. The principle was also quite clearly freedom from religion as well as freedom of religion. Read some of Jefferson’s or Madison’s writings on the subject. You either don’t know your history well, or you’re merely yet another conservative religious propagandist. Or both.
    How exactly do you think you can have a country premised on liberty if individuals don’t have the freedom to reject religious belief and live their lives free of religious coercion? How is that a free country? Your (and the Right’s) conception of “freedom of religion, not freedom from religion” is merely saying, “We, as religious believers, have the right to believe and act however we’d like, legislate our beliefs however possible, force our beliefs upon you and make you listen to us, whether or not you’re interested, force you to provide taxpayer subsidy to our beliefs (which is really what church tax exemptions are), and force you to pay respectful homage to our beliefs, even if you don’t share them, while you, as secular nonbelievers, have the right to shut up, keep your heads down, and acquiesce to all this, or else.”
    In other words, in the eyes of the Right, the only people in our society who have, or are worthy of liberty, are those who believe in supernatural fantasies, and that liberty includes the right to persecute and oppress those who don’t believe in supernatural fantasies, while getting their supernatural fantasies subsidized by taxpayers. Quite a nifty rhetorical trick, but one I’d expect from the Christofascists on the Right.

  162. malthus November 5, 2012 at 5:48 pm #

    Great descriptive writing. What a wordsmith. You have that lying shape shifting Romney down cold. To bad your vote will go to the lying potted plant. Me I am out of it. My state will go blue with or without me. Maybe one will take the popular vote and the other the electoral college. That could bring some changes although I doubt it. My plans for getting out of the money grubbing wall street corporate fascist dictatorship are coming together nicely and no matter where I am I will always look forward to your monday morning articles. At least until everything shuts down here which it will and we will be back to everything made by hand.

  163. insufferable November 5, 2012 at 5:49 pm #

    Mitt has my vote. Obama had his chance and did nothing. Sitting here on long island in the land of downed trees I can safely say that our country is just as broken as the trees that once stood proud and now are laying across power lines making our lives descend into darkness and thrusting us back 300 years. Where are the horses, long dresses and tuberculosis ..it seems just around the corner the Spanish flu will rear its ugly head. Both parties are just remnants of what used to be….once really honest and caring about this great land. Its no ones fault. Its just the passage of time that things eventually get corrupted and outdated. But like the dead trees littering our world, one day even they will be used to bring about new life. Our political system has good bones and I believe that one day it will bring a out new life to this lost country. I think a revolution will revitalize the honest majority withsolid family values and belief in a power greater than ourselves. We are really in charge of so little. For those that believe in that higher force will just tap into it to reach higher and go ahead to improve our world. I LOL forward to the day the good honest God fearing majority can pick such a person to lead us into the future that awaits us.God bless us all.

  164. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 5:56 pm #

    “Mitt has my vote. Obama had his chance and did nothing.”
    Did you expect Obama himself to show up in a hard hat a few hours after the storm broke and start restoring your downed power lines?
    More seriously, what exactly did you want Obama to do that he didn’t these last 4 years? Let’s get specific, please, not this hand-wavy crap about him “doing nothing”, which is patently and obviously false.
    And what do you think Romney will do, to your benefit, that Obama won’t or wouldn’t? Do you really think that a former corporate raider and someone who discounted 40-some percent of the population as dependents and parasites really has your best interests in mind? Really?
    “I LOL forward to the day the good honest God fearing majority can pick such a person to lead us into the future that awaits us.God bless us all.”
    I LOL, too. Boy, do I.

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  165. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 5:58 pm #

    Didn’t you know, Scotty? Christianity is all about calling other people morons and dimwits on the internet for not believing in archaic sky deities. It’s the new religion these days.
    Seriously though, that was a great post. Beautiful really.

  166. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 6:13 pm #

    This is so patently stupid and one-sided, e.g. typical for you.
    How on earth would you have any idea whether or not Romney would make a better president?
    Anyways, do you have some kind of magic crystal ball that tells you Romney would be better than the current guy?
    If not, kindly shut it with your terribly baseless “gut” feelings.
    Judging from what voters think/thought about him in Massachusetts, a record I note has been sorely unmentioned in the campaigns or debates, the exact opposite is true of Romney. He is not well-liked at all in the place where he held an analogous state position (governor).
    Perhaps Obama hasn’t lived up to expectations. I’ll concede the point. Maybe his administration is corrupt. Okay.
    He’s at least far better than the last guy who held the job. And if you want to debate that point, good luck!
    The fact of the matter is that America is so systemically screwed up in so many ways that no president is going to ride in like a knight in shining armor to wrong all the rights and fix up all the problems. It simply isn’t possible.
    The discontent, anger, and negativity is immense out there. A certain segment of the population feels like they are drowning, especially financially.
    I’m sure if Romney became president, half the country will instantaneously hate him and blame all their problems on him.
    Or, if they don’t, they’ll blame the other party not in power at the time.
    I guess that’s just how we roll these days. It is always the other guy’s fault.

  167. anti soak November 5, 2012 at 6:15 pm #

    No, he is too busy playing golf.

  168. anti soak November 5, 2012 at 6:16 pm #

    ‘In other words, in the eyes of the Right, the only people in our society who have, or are worthy of liberty, are those who believe in supernatural fantasies, and that liberty includes the right to persecute and oppress those who don’t believe in supernatural fantasies, while getting their supernatural fantasies subsidized by taxpayers. Quite a nifty rhetorical trick, but one I’d expect from the Christofascists on the Right’
    Dont feed us this shit.

  169. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 6:18 pm #

    And BTW, in the totally unlikely situation that Romney does become president AND he performs better than Obama, I’ll come back here and say you were right. If Romney gets in office and unemployment drops to 5% and the national debt is wiped out, yadda yadda yadda, I’ll be the first to applaud his success.
    But the last Republican didn’t do so hot. These Republicans like to think they are masters of the US economy, but when push comes to shove, they don’t perform very well.
    Bushie and his gang (talk about corrupt) torpedoed the economy, and Obama was left with the mess. He’s done a decent job on the cleanup operation, whether you like him or not.
    Yeah, I know. You don’t like it when people blame Bush for, well, pretty much anything.
    Why? I dunno. You’re just a dyed in the wool Bush apologist, for whatever reason.
    I’m sorry the facts are so inconvenient for you these days. That must be tough.

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  170. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 6:22 pm #

    Of course, you have no argument that this isn’t the case. Typical.

  171. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 6:25 pm #

    So the president plays some golf. Big deal.
    Let’s get some perspective. The last guy took more days of combined vacation during his 8 years than any president in history and that was with two simultaneous ground wars going on. By comparison, Obama works like Henry Ford.
    Do you think if Obama instead spent that time at his desk that it would magically fix your, my, or the country’s problems?

  172. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 6:30 pm #

    Obama contacted Governor Christie six times, once in the middle of the night, in order to expedite the disaster declaration. Obama personally took Christie on a tour of the worst-hit areas by helicopter. Obama was on the ground immediately following the storm, as was a huge number of FEMA personnel and the Sec of HLS.
    Christie himself was so impressed by this performance that he publicly praised Obama’s excellent handling of the situation and had nothing but kudos for him, even though just days earlier he had been saying Obama couldn’t find the leadership light switch. In fact, Christie was one of the top “attack dogs” of the Romney campaign.
    What more do you want from him, soak-fer-brains? You want him to get a bucket and start bailing?
    Seriously, I wonder about you sometimes. Just all negativity, all the time. No one can do anything right, except (of course) you. You got all the answers.
    Let’s just put you in charge, right. That would be good for a laugh!

  173. keratomileusis November 5, 2012 at 6:42 pm #

    Mitt Romney, the Whore of Babylon . . .

  174. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 6:48 pm #

    “The Depression didn’t end because of WW2, it ended because Roosevelt finally ascended into that great country club in the sky and most of his ilk with him.”
    Do you actually believe this drivel?
    Right, the New Deal ended right when FDR died. *laugh*
    How about a little American history lesson?
    Roosevelt died in 1945, and Truman took over, pretty much keeping FDR’s administration in tact.
    Then there was Eisenhower, a moderate Republican who would be considered a Democrat today.
    And post-WWII there was…
    Establishment of the US interstate system, the most massive government undertaking of all time.
    The GI Housing Bill, setting up affordable housing for returning soldiers.
    The GI Bill that gave the vets affordable schooling.
    The Marshall Plan that put Europe back on its feet.
    All of these were accomplishments of the US government (and the American people), primarily by those who lived through and suffered during the Great Depression and had Roosevelt-like ideas about society and the economy.
    And, yes, WWII did propel the US into the #1 economic and military power in the world, thus completely ending the Depression. Most of the rest of the world was in ruins, and American soil (well aside from the US base in Pearl Harbor) was untouched. We were producing the most oil at that time of any country. And our industrial base was completely in tact. So, yeah, you’re flat out wrong there.
    Yours and others attempts to spin FDR as some kind of American bugaboo are obviously politically motivated and not supported by the facts. He was one of the most beloved presidents in our entire history, and there are very good reasons for it.
    Heck, the Republican Party of the 1950’s would be considered progressive today. They wouldn’t even be allowed in to the mega-weird right wing cult that we’ve got today.
    Go back and review some of what Eisenhower said about social security and other benefits and the military industrial complex. He reads like a so-called “left winger” of today.

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  175. Scotty November 5, 2012 at 6:56 pm #

    Turkleton, you essentially made my point. So what if Obama’s SOE has given speeches about Peak Oil? The fact is that there’s no cogent, rational plan on a national basis to address it, no matter which party is in power. You admit that Obama and the Dems are essentially powerless to put the brakes on suburban car culture and American resource gluttony, that we’re going to drive it into the ground, that we’re going to “scorch” the ME to get our bloody hands on as much of the dwindling resource as we can, but that it will all be futile, in the end. Yeah, OK…so how is that a refutation of my general argument, again?
    And yes, I’m sure that Obama and Romney personally have knowledge of Peak Oil, as do their energy advisors. The point was that neither of them are acknowledging or honestly addressing the problem with the American public, or advocating for any serious legislative measures to tackle it, but are rather lulling people into thinking that we can continue on largely as we have before, never mind our endless wars in the ME…but those are about Terrorism and Freedom and Democracy, not about petro-resources! LOL
    Obama doesn’t care very much about sustained high unemployment (nor does Romney, crocodile tears notwithstanding), because it helps to maintain downward pressure on wages and benefits, which helps to bolster corporate profits, which helps the stock market keep soaring, which keeps his and the Dems’ wealthy donors satisfied, and which provides some of the only “positive” economic news in an otherwise very gloomy picture. Sustained high unemployment and the effects it has on wages, benefits, and corporate bottom lines, is also part of the grand plan, to bring about a resurgence of sorts of the US as a productive manufacturing platform and exporting economy. To do that in a globalized economy (which we’re stuck with for the time being), the US will have to become more competitive with low-wage and low-benefits foreign rivals. That will require a sustained drop in the standard of living of the working and middle classes–austerity, if you will. (Another major component is devaluing the currency to make it more competitive, which our gargantuan national deficits and debt are helping to do. That’s why no serious action will be taken by either party to attack the deficit and debt, all rhetoric to the contrary aside.)
    Look at the bailout of Detroit that “saved” the auto industry, that Obama keeps crowing about. The bailout was really a government subsidized managed bankruptcy that allowed Detroit to renege on retiree obligations, rip up union contracts, downsize sharply, and then ramp up production again with new hires who had to accept a 50% reduction in wages and sharply curtailed benefits, to the point that many new autoworkers are working for near poverty wages. This was all done to allow the US auto industry to “compete” internationally. But the workers involved got a very raw deal. And we’re supposed to be inspired by this?
    Anyway, Obama’s concern about high unemployment (and Romney’s for that matter) is superficial and electoral. One of the only things Romney has said recently that’s been at all honest is his discussion of unemployment numbers. There are many more unemployed in this country, many who’ve simply dropped out of the official workforce, who aren’t included in the official unemployment rate because of the misleading way it’s put together. REAL unemployment (meaning those who are collecting benefits, those who aren’t but are also not working, those who’ve stopped looking for work altogether) is much higher than the official 7.9% rate. Plus there is the army of the UNDEREMPLOYED (those who want and need full-time work but can only get part-time work, etc.) The workforce participation rate (that is, the percentage of eligible adults of working age who are actually employed) is still at record post-war lows–and that’s in an environment of greatly increased female employment compared to, say, the 1960s. We are barely adding more jobs on a monthly basis than we need to just to keep pace with population growth, and even that is a very recent phenomenon. There are still millions of fewer jobs in the economy than there were in 2007, and our population (and thus, our eligible workforce) has grown by millions since then too. Under Obama, the public sector nationally has seen a huge drop in payrolls, which partly offsets the very modest gains in the private sector. Overall, from February 2009 (Obama’s first full month in office) until now, adding up all the public and private sector jobs lost and added, the end result is a net gain of 190,000 jobs. That is PATHETIC. The only reason that the unemployment rate is at 7.9% is because millions of people have either exhausted their benefits and dropped from the rolls, or have dropped out of the workforce altogether.
    Lest anyone interpret this as an argument FOR the GOP, think again. Bush and the GOP had an abysmal job creation record from 2001-2009, and they weren’t starting off in the worst economic and financial crash since the Great Depression, either. There’s no rational argument that the record since 2009 would have been any better under GOP leadership, likely a bit worse. And things aren’t going to improve at any faster pace under Romney. That’s because we’re in a long-term structural contraction, as JHK has pointed out, and not a typical cyclical business downturn.
    Finally, yes you were right to criticize my choice of wording at the end of my post. Voting for a 3rd party candidate is not “viable” given the structural duopoly of the corporate parties. I should have explained that IMO, if one is to vote at all, then the only vote that can be cast in good conscience is for a 3rd party candidate.

  176. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 6:57 pm #

    “most of his ilk with him.”
    I guess according to JJF’s timeline, the Depression ended in, like, 1975, after everyone in the Roosevelt administration had died off.

  177. Scotty November 5, 2012 at 7:03 pm #

    I’m not feeding you any shit, anti-soak, merely restating in clearer and more unambiguous terms the shit that the Right is trying to feed all of us.

  178. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 7:10 pm #

    I agree with this post, almost completely.
    The one part I don’t think you interpret quite correctly is the job numbers.
    From my understanding, when Obama came into office, the country was losing 500k jobs a month. Gradually, Obama has been able to restore this into positive territory. So the number you cite is small by itself, but you’ve got to remember that he was working against a gigantic negative deficit that was overcome. Can we at least give him credit for this?
    Furthermore, are we convinced that it is primarily the president’s problem to keep people employed? This is more a function of the overall health and dynamics of the US economy.
    I mean, it is strange right. The Republicans say that government can’t do anything right, like managing the economy. Then they blame Obama for not creating enough jobs. What is it, exactly, they want him to do? If it isn’t in his job description to manage private sector employment, and they don’t want him to hire more government workers, what exactly is he supposed to be doing to solve this issue? More corporate tax breaks I guess?
    His opponents have basically placed him in a Catch-22 situation. The only real way for the government to directly increase employment is hiring people. All other ways are subject to the whims of those who receive the indirect benefits. And ask corporations, they’re only going to hire the people they need rather than spending cash. Cash hoarding by corporations is at record hires. Corporate boards could give a damn about unemployment. That’s not in their job description either.
    I know you don’t necessarily have these answers. Just being a bit rhetorical.
    Also, what’s the solution to all of this?
    Answer: There is none.
    The beast is just gonna shamble along until it can’t anymore. I know that sounds kind of simplistic, but there’s some inevitability and tragic remorseless working of things that is going to play out here, which no one person will be able to control or avoid.

  179. Scotty November 5, 2012 at 7:27 pm #

    Also, turkleton, to your point about the GOP screeching about Obama being a socialist when he’s really a corporate tool very similar to them, with maybe a few tactical differences. That is all part of the scripted theatre of our national political life. When the actual policy differences between the parties on economic and foreign policy matters are so few and so minor, for electoral purposes the party differences have to be magnified and blown out of all proportion, and there’s much more focus on hot-button social issues. Thus, Obama is a Muslim socialist yadda yadda, and the GOP is going to push women back to being barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen yadda yadda. What GOP pols in DC say to the cameras is not what they mean. They know that Obama is far from an actual socialist, and is actually a corporate tool. But they know plenty of low information voters can be persuaded otherwise, and those voters are instrumental in the GOP seizing and retaining power. In other words, it’s all propaganda (at least when it’s coming from most GOP pols and other officials, if not from some of the ignorant Tea Party rabble).

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  180. run_dmc November 5, 2012 at 7:38 pm #

    Decided to check in on your last missive before the election. I wish I hadn’t. So, you’ve decided to vote for Obama again after cataloguing a litany of failures over the last 4 years, b/c: “there’s a better chance that he could get a clue in the next 4 years.” WTF?!! Your reasons for not voting for Romney:
    “Finally, I just don’t like Mitt Romney. He’s the over-eager twerp in the classroom with his arm always sticking up. He’s the missionary bozo in a necktie ringing your doorbell to sell a fairy-tale cult religion dreamed up in the 1820s by another over-eager con artist. He’s obviously using the national stage to work out his father issues. . . ”
    Because of course – why would we ever want to vote for the person who was over-eager, studied hard and knew the answers in class? (Same reason people “didn’t like” HRC). This is the kind of stupidity that you yourself have railed against when you describe us as a nation of fat, lazy, anti-intellectual slackers who are proud of our ignorance. But then, displaying a truly impressive lack of self-awareness, you say you can’t stand the nerdy, smart kid in class -the “TWERP,” in fact and so will vote for the lazy slacker who inhabits the office and has proved he doesn’t either know how to or wants to do jack shit in the job he’s held for 4 years.
    And, here comes the “cult religion” bigotry again because Mormonism is sooooo much more crazy than the religion that Obama believes in, which of course is not a cult just because it has more people who believe it and ergo self-define it as not being a cult.
    The capper though is the “daddy issues” psychobabble. Because NO ONE running for president has ever had those. Clinton with the absent father and the womanizing, GWB’s which should be obvious, all the way back to the Adams’, pere et fils . . . . And, of course the man your voting for who wrote not 1 but 2 memoirs largely dealing with a father who he barely ever saw, abandoned him practically at birth and who’s been trying to replace his daddy with numerous weird, extreme radical “father figures” ever since of course has NOOOOOO daddy issues at . . . Man. Can you spell delusional?

  181. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 7:43 pm #

    Well, I’m not sure, Scotty. That’s perhaps far too simplistic a reading of what the Republicans and Democrats believe. There are real differences.
    Many Republicans claim to want to dismantle the social safety net, or at least scale it way back. This is one of the central ideas of the Tea Partiers. The Ryan contingent believe that services like Medicare and Social Security should be privatized with vouchers. Most (all?) Democrats are horrified by ideas like these and want to keep these services with alterations to balance out the costs.
    A lot of Republicans were (are?) still focused on military spending. Witness the drubbing they gave Obama for recent defense cuts in the budget plans. Many red states are highly dependent on the military for jobs, whereas (in general) blue states not so much. You see a lot of Republicans who play chicken hawk, talking about Iran and so forth. I don’t see the Dems doing this as much.
    And then there are the social issues, where there are real differences. Democrats are more of a multi-cultural tent, whereas Republicans are generally targeting white males (to be overly broad). The Dems stance on women’s rights, for instance access to birth control and abortion, is generally directly opposed to the Republicans, many of whom apparently think abortion is akin to murder and would like to overturn Roe vs. Wade.
    The Republicans are overly religious, and include such bright bulbs and Palin and Bachmann, the latter of whom likes to say “amen” after every third sentence. Again, though this is present in the Democratic Party, it isn’t nearly as emphasized or visible.
    I could go on, but you get the point. Yes, there is a lot of theatre and posing, but I don’t see how you can look at what each party says, does, and acts and then determine that the differences are minor. They aren’t.

  182. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 7:48 pm #

    Also, remember Obama’s “you didn’t build that” comment and the ruckus that caused? I think that should tell you that there are indeed, some very real differences manifested in our two political parties. Because we have only two that are viable in the current political structure, I think it tends to polarize even more. If there were multiple parties, you’d see a lot more gradation along the political spectrum, as in European countries. You’d also likely see more compromise, as in multi-party systems coalitions have to be formed for majorities.

  183. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 7:52 pm #

    And, here comes the “cult religion” bigotry again because Mormonism is sooooo much more crazy than the religion that Obama believes in, which of course is not a cult just because it has more people who believe it and ergo self-define it as not being a cult.

    Well, they’re both wrong. But there’s wrong and then there’s just flat out wacky. Have you done any research as to what Mormon’s actually believe? It certainly pegs the cult meter.
    Polygamy, sacred underwear, Jesus in America, etc.
    Yes, all religions are weird, but Mormonism is even weirder.
    And the difference between a cult and a religion is time and number of believers, e.g. Christianity is no longer a cult because millions believe in it and thousands of years have passed.
    I know that’s splitting hairs, but there ya go.

  184. turkleton November 5, 2012 at 7:52 pm #

    Shouldn’t that be LDS, instead?

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  185. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 8:05 pm #

    neither of them are acknowledging or honestly addressing the problem with the American public, or advocating for any serious legislative measures to tackle it
    Scotty, perhaps you missed Obama’s energy policy, which does differ from Romney.
    Obama pushed for “cap and trade” legislation to limit greenhouse-gas emissions from coal power plants by putting a price on them for the first time.
    Obama halted the controversial Keystone pipeline plan on Jan. 18, 2012.
    Obama said in his 2012 State of the Union speech: “And I’m requiring all companies that drill for gas on public lands to disclose the chemicals they use. America will develop this resource without putting the health and safety of our citizens at risk.”
    Obama’s DOE has provided billions of dollars in federal loan guarantees for nuclear-power development.
    Obama supports tax credits that help wind and solar industries. Wind energy contributed 32 percent of all new US electric-capacity additions last year, representing $14 billion in new investment, according to a report by the Department of Energy.
    Obama calls for chopping $40 billion in tax breaks for oil and gas companies. But his administration also supports federal loan guarantees for emerging energy companies.
    Obama has funded billions in energy conservation measures for buildings and required the Environmental Protection Agency and Department of Transportation to develop new fuel standards for automobiles, including a 54.5 miles-per-gallon standard for the nation’s auto fleet by 2025. In March, Obama announced $1 billion in tax credits and grants for alternative-energy cars and trucks. High-speed rail corridors are underway in a $10 billion plan to boost transportation infrastructure and efficiency.
    Those are some examples of Obama’s energy policy. If you compare Romney’s positions (if he has any, if they haven’t been Etch-a-Sketched since yesterday), you will find differences.
    It does not seem fair to say Obama is not addressing energy issues.

  186. Scotty November 5, 2012 at 8:11 pm #

    turkleton, I think you’re trying to have it both ways. You want Obama to get credit for his job creation record, yet at the same time you want to dismiss arguments that it’s the president’s job to create private sector jobs. Well, which is it? Either the president plays a direct role in private sector job creation, and can be lauded or criticized for his record accordingly, or he is largely irrelevant to private sector job creation, in which case arguing either for or against his record is pretty pointless, wouldn’t you agree?
    Also, with all due respect, I think it’s you who misunderstand and misinterpret the employment numbers. Yes, when Obama took office the country was losing 700,000 jobs per month, and now we’re adding jobs every month–an insufficient number, to be sure, but adding is better than losing. As much as any change in employment numbers can be attributed to the president’s policies and actions (which is debatable, but let’s go with it), then yes Obama can be credited for staunching the bleeding and turning things around.
    The larger picture, however, is more complex and nuanced, and much less laudible. To restate my point from the original post, if you look at the period Feb 09-Nov 12 (Obama’s term thus far) and add up all the monthly public and private sector job gains and losses for the entire period, then overall the country has seen a net gain of 190,000 jobs. This is according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Even if our population had remained static over that period, that net gain wouldn’t have come close to making up for all the jobs lost since the start of the downturn in 2007. Of course, our population HASN’T remained static. It’s estimated that we need to add at least 125,000-150,000 jobs per month simply to keep pace with the growth of the workforce. Thus, if we take the low end of that range, multiply by 45 (the number of months that Obama has been in office), and then subtract 190,000, you can see that the net jobs deficit since he took office has been huge. And again, that’s added to the jobs lost in 2007-2008, and the jobs deficit from not creating jobs to keep pace with the growth of the workforce over that same period.
    THIS is why the unemployment rate that’s so casually bandied about (7.9%) is so fraudulent.

  187. arby63 November 5, 2012 at 8:12 pm #

    It’s a bit incredulous to me that only Jews and Blacks are “authorized” to be of any significance Mr. Kunstler. I say FUCK YOU to you sir.

  188. anti soak November 5, 2012 at 8:18 pm #

    I forget the Mormons whole deal.
    Joseph Smith was a snake oil salesman, carnival huckster who started a rel$ion.
    Brigham Young somehow ran it.
    Dunno. Dont care.
    JHK has always had a fondness for Obongo.

  189. Wolfbay November 5, 2012 at 8:31 pm #

    the nerve of Gary Johnson taking Stein and Anderson to task for advocating “free” government programs. Not much of a politician is he. I voted for him also.

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  190. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 8:38 pm #

    Johnson supports gay marriage and wants to decriminalize possession of a small amount of marijuana. Thanks for voting for that!

  191. bproman November 5, 2012 at 8:40 pm #

    Take a ride on a railroad as you pass the unemployment soup line to collect your food stamps if the ATM machine has not stopped working due to a power outage from the utility company.

  192. Wolfbay November 5, 2012 at 8:41 pm #

    Obamas speech chastising republican greed was impressive.Glad to hear his 40 million dollar waterfront estate in Hawaii is almost complete.
    Did anyone else find it suspicious that the top 6 contributors to both campaigns were the same?

  193. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 8:55 pm #

    Goldman Sachs
    Bank of America
    Morgan Stanley
    Orin Kramer of Boston Provident
    Mark Gallogly of Centerbridge Partners
    Charles Myers of Evercore Partners
    Obama does not take money from political action committees or Washington lobbyists. But he has over one million individual contributors.

  194. Headless November 5, 2012 at 8:57 pm #

    I have come to exactly understand the mind of the presidential assassin; if not for just cause, then for emotional response to something I find so repugnant, disgusting, and otherwise unworthy of life that I would be willing to do the deed and–at least, in my mind–do humanity a favor beyond comprehension. And if the following two events ever occur, I will abide by my instinct and act:
    1. Romney is elected to the office of the Presidency;
    2. He knocks on my door to pawn a pile of his psychopathic bullshit.
    You are welcome Earth.

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  195. ozone November 5, 2012 at 9:00 pm #

    “Generation X will just have to do what the Lost Generation did during the depression, that is we’ll have to wait for enough Boomers to die off before anything meaningful can be done.” -JJF
    I admire your “gumption” and “spunk” thar, Pilgrim!
    Not a problem, Old Mr. Death (a blessing for some; a terror for others; a worry for most) will get the job done, regardless of the best medical care that money can buy. The dead shall fertilize the living; so is it written.
    Of course you are correct. The present [entirely corrupt] paradigm must be laid low so that something may fill the power-vacuum. What I would advise being VERY mindful of, would be those who purposefully intend to continue old, corrupt policies for a new [hopefully enlightened] generation. Besides the natural (and quite ordinary) process of winnowing, vigilance must be ever observed.
    I’m sure you have this already in mind, but unfair advantage always seems to rear its’ maggot-infested head to take what it in no way deserves. You want a new way of “inhabiting the landscape” [tm JHK]? You’re going to have to fight for it; that’s just the way it is when you’re up against those that feel they have a “birthright” to the cream of everyone else’s labors while they recline.

  196. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 9:03 pm #

    Glad to hear his 40 million dollar waterfront estate in Hawaii is almost complete.
    President Obama is NOT BUYING A HOUSE IN HAWAII
    The White House has recently been notified by the NSA Domestic Surveillance group that some Americans are spreading rumors about President Obama buying a house in Hawaii to move into after the election is over. Obviously, this rumor is UNFOUNDED since the President will be living in the White House for the next FOUR YEARS.
    Fortunately, there are ways of dealing with this type of problem.

  197. edpell November 5, 2012 at 9:36 pm #

    Vote for the lesser of two evils.
    How is that voting for evil working out for you?

  198. Pucker November 5, 2012 at 10:05 pm #

    Have you noticed that they’re now coming out with books and movies the theme of which focuses on the Older Generation tormenting and abusing the Younger Generation?
    Examples include “The Hunger Games”, and the movie “Cabin in the Woods”.
    Interesting sociological phenomenon…..

  199. Pucker November 5, 2012 at 10:07 pm #

    It’s probably not a good idea for the parents to “f…ck over” their kids.
    It doesn’t show much common sense….

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  200. Radu Voda November 5, 2012 at 10:52 pm #

    Two out of three new jobs went to immigrants. And 100,000 of those legally come here every month. Who knows how many illegals. We’ll never get unemployment down with numbers like these.

  201. Pucker November 5, 2012 at 10:58 pm #

    Whatever happend to that Russian band “Pussy Riot”?
    Were they exiled to a gulag in Siberia?

  202. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 11:00 pm #

    America is a nation of immigrants. Always has been. Immigrants are job creators. They are entrepreneurs. They create businesses and create jobs for the communities where they live. It has always been that way. Immigrants should be welcomed.

    Contrary to many who assume Latino immigrants just take away American jobs, Hispanic immigrants have played an important role in helping to revive small U.S. towns. While many come to find work, they often create the positions themselves, opening up new restaurants, storefronts, and services that line small-town Main Streets. Big cities are no different. In fact, almost half of New York City’s small businesses are immigrant-run. The report finds that immigrant entrepreneurs often have a distinct advantage due their ability to understand and work within both the United States and their home countries, allowing them to appeal not only to immigrant communities within the U.S. but also to export markets back home. Due in part to these benefits (as well as geography), Mexican immigrants have taken the entrepreneurial lead, starting more new companies (in sheer number) than any other immigrant group. On average Hispanic-run enterprises are small, though 16 percent employ between one and twenty employees (similar to 21 percent of non-immigrant-run small businesses).

  203. run_dmc November 5, 2012 at 11:04 pm #

    Oh, please. “There’s wacky and then truly wacky??” The mantra of every wacky person out there. “I’m not wacky in my belief. Every other person who doesn’t believe what I do is wacky.” There is nothing crazier than saying every person who is supposed to be a leader in your faith who counsels the rest of the faith cannot ever engage in a natural bodily function – sex – for their entire life. I’ll take wearing magic underwear or sexy lingerie or whatever the myth is about Mormons over never having sex, thank you very much!!!
    Come on – we can go tit for tat all night on this one. Angels with wings, a big smoking fire pit where “bad” people go for all eternity, Noah’s ark, 72 virgins, the weird costumes and Latin chanting and incense in the Catholic church (which I guess is supposed to make up for no sex) and don’t even get me started on what kind of perversion of religion Obama practiced in Wright’s church!!
    The only people who say someone else’s religion is wack in this world of religion being the most wacked out thing ever are people who are straight up non-balanced bigots because EVERY religion is wackadoodle.

  204. progress4spam November 5, 2012 at 11:52 pm #

    Thanks for this week’s prose, JHK.
    And I like the way you wrap it up for the week:
    “Anyway, once this dreadful election is over the floodgates of events will open up and we will once again be forced to reckon especially with the epochal forces that seek to shatter the financial system.” -jhk-
    This election cycle has been dreadful. It is the worst I remember – far and away – in my nearly five decades of attempting to understand, dissect, and argue US politics.
    Why I feel this way, I am not sure.
    Most likely because I’m no longer bound by the world of work – or by the Left Leaning Political Correctness or the Right Leaning Hatred Of Government – that go with surviving the work environment in these United States.
    Moving on – JHK, I admire your guts for coming out for Obomber for Pres. Although, I have to doubt your intelligence – for perhaps the first time ever.
    There are reasons to vote for Obama.
    There are reasons to vote for Romney.
    These reasons are mutually exclusive, and tend to cancel each other out – as many Right/Left posters have been demonstrating on CFN, just today.
    I do NOT get the reasons to not vote.
    I just don’t get it. Vote for the down ticket races – because some are very important.
    Then write in K-Dog or Mickey Mouse for pres. as a protest.
    Really – I’ve already voted for the Libertarian Ticket, because it’s the only nonObama/nonRomney choice on the ballot in Georgia. I can do this with no worries, because GA is not in play like the Intransigent State of Ohio.
    But what if the Libertarians siphoned off 10% of the vote Nationwide in future elections? And what if that brought more states into play? And what if the Corporate Demoncrats and Corporate Republicnuts had to pay attention to the issues raised by Third Parties – in every election going forward?
    Somebody – ANYBODY – needs to tell us why NOT VOTING is any sort of a valid or worthwhile protest that will affect anything at all.
    Not voting at all is NOT A VOTE!
    Voting for Obama or Romney is not really a vote for anything worthwhile, that I will stipulate.
    Why does this confuse people?
    I don’t understand.
    God (god?), we have a stupid electorate in the US.
    Just don’t vote for either the Dem or Repub.

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  205. asoka.. November 5, 2012 at 11:53 pm #

    EVERY religion is wackadoodle.
    Not so fast there, partner. You do know that there are atheist religions, right? No belief in God. Doesn’t seem too wacky.
    The Five Precepts in Buddhism are :
    1. Abstinence from killing all forms of life
    2. Abstinence from sexual misconduct
    3. Abstinence from lies and deceit
    4. Abstinence from theft
    5. Abstinence from intoxicants
    Simple. Works well for millions of Buddhists.

  206. progress4spam November 6, 2012 at 12:05 am #

    “……religion being the most wacked out thing ever are people who are straight up non-balanced bigot…” -run_dmc-
    First, I’ve got to say how much I’m enjoying the debate between Turk and Scotty. It’s enough to make one hope that this moribund CFN thread is throwing off the chinese..spammer and the resident..impediment..overposter, and actually coming to life, again.
    That said, though – I must point out to you run_dmc, that Turkleton, Scotty, and many OUTSPOKEN others in this corner of The Internet are in their own tremendously bigoted class of Religious Bigotry.
    They are Atheists – with a Big Capital “A.”
    They know Everything about Everything Spiritual.
    And condemn All Who Do Not Think As They Do.
    Just stirring the Fires, a little.
    Good night.

  207. Radu Voda November 6, 2012 at 12:09 am #

    I see Mitt as the Quarterhack who is able to run for touchdowns if no recievers are open. But to which endzone will he run is the question…

  208. turkleton November 6, 2012 at 12:15 am #

    “tremendously bigoted class of Religious Bigotry”
    Come off it.
    I simply question the belief systems of certain people and the worldview they build based on these beliefs. That’s not bigotry.
    Here’s some bigotry.
    Jerry Falwell said that 9/11 was God’s punishment for Americans being sinful, specifically for homosexuality.
    Ask any hardcore Christian and most likely they will tell you who God punished and why for being naughty.
    No, for true, honest-to-God (pun intended) unquestioned bigotry, look no further than the Christians, who seem so sure that the divinity shares their personal prejudices.
    That said, some religious folks do a lot of good in this world and should be commended for it. But that doesn’t mean what they believe about the universe is valid and should go unquestioned when it shatters the boundaries of common sense and logic.

  209. Radu Voda November 6, 2012 at 12:16 am #

    The higher the population, the broader the base, and perhaps the higher the pyramid – until it collapses anyway. But what about the income per capita – is that going to get bigger too, Soak? Or smaller? You aren’t using your Cap or Koph. But it certainly does solve Paul Volcker’s complaint that the American Middle Class made too much money to be competitive. Oh yes, we’ve solved that one…

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  210. Radu Voda November 6, 2012 at 12:21 am #

    The Communist/Atheist Religion killed more people in the 20th Century than any other religion in history for the last 5000 years. And probably more than all of them put together for that period.
    Have you no shame – or just no brains?

  211. progress4spam November 6, 2012 at 12:27 am #

    “I simply question the belief systems of certain people and the worldview they build based on these beliefs. That’s not bigotry.”
    Fair enough turkle, questioning is always good.
    I just don’t think the human brain is equipped to Know It All – that’s all.
    Definition: Bigot
    “a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices”
    If you can acknowledge that an Atheist can be a bigot – then we’ll call it a draw.

  212. turkleton November 6, 2012 at 12:29 am #

    They are Atheists – with a Big Capital “A.”
    They know Everything about Everything Spiritual.
    And condemn All Who Do Not Think As They Do.

    Oh, boy, not this again.
    Listen, proggy, if you feel more comfortable putting me in some category, be my guest. No skin off my back.
    But I’m not self-identifying as an atheist. Like I’ve said before, why should there be some category for people who profess disbelief in unprovable, mystical entities? That’s just common sense.
    You don’t believe in fairies, leprechauns, and unicorns. Is there some name for this? No, it is just not believing in ridiculous fairy tales. But a unicorn believer will call you, I guess, an anti-unicorn-ist, or something. You just don’t have enough faith in the horns, prog!
    I put the Judeo-Christian God in the same category. This is an entity that has never been proven to exist, and, in fact, it is supposedly a concept that should be accepted on faith alone. Any thinking person should find that assertion repugnant and dangerous, when applied to any proposition.
    Furthermore, with the vast body of scientific knowledge out there, every single statement made by religion about the universe has been proven false, again and again and again. The old desert people religions don’t change their belief systems from thousands of years ago yet truth is marching on. That’s not a very good track record. Religion is batting 0-10000000000 when it comes to the real truth of the matter.
    I mock, argue, debate and chastise. Condemning is for the religious-minded.
    I don’t usually use the word spiritual. This is one of those fuzzy terms bandied about without a lot of thought behind its meaning. David Icke said he knew he was the chosen one because he could always find parking in downtown London. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

  213. turkleton November 6, 2012 at 12:35 am #

    I hope you could tell that my post was somewhat tongue in cheek. But I do think that there is a scale of weirdness that can be applied to different religions. Scientology definitely takes the cake here. Of course, that’s in the mind of the beholder, somewhat. In some sense, the Judeo-Christian religions are all very weird and archaic now that we actually know quite a bit about the natural world. Mormonism just sort of takes that and runs with it.
    The specific assertions and rules are what get me, especially when people selectively choose which they will follow. It is hilarious to try and defend anything in the Bible these days. So God says he doesn’t like the gays. Hm, did you know that apparently God doesn’t want you to wear clothes made from different kinds of fibers either? Better check the tags on your pants right now to make sure you’re not sitting in sin.
    I mean, really, the Bible, in this day and age is an anachronism. Most people who self-identify as Christians don’t even know most of what’s in there, especially the Old Testament. And they don’t follow it.
    The Golden Rule is pretty much the distillation of everything that is good about Christianity. You can chuck the rest without any harm.
    In fact, if you tried to follow all the rules in both the Old and New Testament, you couldn’t possibly do it without going bat shit insane.

  214. turkleton November 6, 2012 at 12:40 am #

    By percentage of people living at the time, I’m sure Christianity and Islam take the cake. It was nothing but non-stop religious war from about 500 AD all the way into the 1600 and 1700’s.
    At any rate and regardless of the numbers, your comparison of religion with something awful doesn’t prove anything. It just says that Christianity, in the modern era, has not killed as many people as Communism. So what?
    Can’t I be opposed to both of them?
    Are you implying that I have to defend Communism now simply because I dislike religious belief systems?
    There’s some kind of weird logical fallacy you’re applying here, Vladdie.

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  215. turkleton November 6, 2012 at 12:48 am #

    Definition: Bigot
    “a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices”

    Then let’s parse this a bit, shall we.
    I am not basing my argument against religion primarily on “opinions and prejudices,” other than the opinion that I often find the breathtaking arrogance of religious types cloaked in humility to be insufferable and disingenuous.
    I primarily base it on facts, on the knowledge base slowly accumulated by hard-working people who have actually dared to try and go outside the little religious box over the years and see what is actually out there and how it works. Everything we have found out over the years disproves all the false assertions made in most (all?) religious texts. You can call this science, I suppose, but a lot of it is just common sense.
    “obstinately or intolerantly”
    This is generally a matter of social consensus as to what constitutes being “rude.” What I write only seems to be this way to you because you, for some reason, place religion in a special category in which it should be shielded from criticism and logical debate, to some degree or another. Yet, everything else in your mind, as far as I can tell, is up for debate.
    Take the issue of immigration, for instance, on which you have strong opinions, often discussed. What would you say if I called you an immigration bigot? You’d say that was no a fair characterization. You’re arguing points, and you try to use facts to support them. What’s the difference then between how I present my arguments against religious ideas and how you present yours on immigration?
    And why the special treatment for something that is so patently false and absurd? If anything needs defending in our society, it certainly isn’t religion.

  216. progress4spam November 6, 2012 at 12:49 am #

    “I mock, argue, debate and chastise. Condemning is for the religious-minded.”
    OK, then, turk – I must have you confused with someone else who used to make Atheism his religion.
    no harm, no foul
    On a lighter note – It’s good to have you back on CFN. Why the absence?
    And you do seem to be on speed, or something, today and tonight. Steady there, boy, you can’t get all of your ideas out in one day. It’s going to take at least a month. Even at your present high and unsustainable velocity. ;0)

  217. turkleton November 6, 2012 at 12:53 am #

    Okay, let’s not call them facts. We can say theories, initially posed as hypotheses, and supported by experimental or observational evidence.
    To wit, the earth is not 7000 years old. Radioactivity disproves this assertion, and so does the the existence of prehistoric fossils.
    Capiche? Those aren’t opinions. Thems the facts.
    Or, at least, these are pretty damn good theories on why the Bible is wrong about the timeline (among other things).

  218. turkleton November 6, 2012 at 12:58 am #

    Oh, you know. Stuff. Things happen. I don’t post here every week.
    BTW, the ad hominem attack does not become you, prog.
    I’ll take it all though. I will concede all the points about my terrible character, my bigotry, and my Atheism with a capital A. You want to call me names. Go right ahead.
    The real issue here, that for some reason you try and deflect, is that religious belief systems are logically indefensible. So you, and others, must resort to calling me nasty names like bigot and (oh no) Atheist in order to deflect criticism.
    I like to call people names, too, but I always surround my insults with facts and figures. 😉

  219. progress4spam November 6, 2012 at 1:06 am #

    Look, the 7,000 year creation story is allegory.
    It was “created” by the mind of man. hehe!
    Just don’t try to extinguish ALL spirituality* from your mind*. It can’t be done.
    That becomes reductio ad absurdum, in a hurry.
    *spirituality – aka hope for something on Earth besides dirt and death.
    *mind – aka the realm of the human spirit.
    This does go in a circle, in a hurry, does it not?

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  220. ront November 6, 2012 at 1:21 am #


  221. Kyooshtik November 6, 2012 at 1:57 am #

    Turk, I tried giving up CFN and was successful for about 8 weeks but Sandy came along and I felt compelled to write about it.
    Now I am sucked back into all of the comments that inevitably drive me nuts, especially when thoughts are expressed inaccurately.
    Let’s fix this particular comment of yours.
    You said: “I can hardly listen to Romney without getting a palatable feeling of disgust.”
    Here is the definition of palatable:
    1.(of food or drink) Pleasant to taste.
    2.(of an action or proposal) Acceptable or satisfactory.
    Obviously what you hear from Romney’s mouth is the exact opposite of palatable. What you meant rather was palpable.
    Then you said: “his wacky cult-religion was never brought up as an issue.” Well, what religion is NOT wacky, pray tell? Christianity? Have you ever heard Bill Maher’s riff on Christianity? Or how about the story of Ganesh in Hinduism? Let’s face it, the only thing that makes the slightest sense is the anti-religion of atheism.
    Finally, this: “people (e.g. a lot of Americans) who salivate like Pavlovian dogs”
    What you mean is Pavlog’s dogs. His dogs cannot be Pavlovian any more than they could be republican or Christian or Darwinian dogs. Dogs are incapable of considering the empirical experiments run by Pavlov and declaring themselves to be convinced of his conclusions. They were simply dogs possessed and studied by Pavlov.
    When you return to the blog now and then, like today, with a blizzard of comments, I enjoy reading your thoughts (though I am often turned off by their socialistic slant) but you need to pay more attention to your word selection.

  222. Kyooshtik November 6, 2012 at 2:14 am #

    It’s a bit incredulous to me
    No Arby, IT is incredible, YOU are incredulous. How many times must I plow this same ground?

  223. Kyooshtik November 6, 2012 at 2:19 am #

    What you mean is Pavlov‘s dogs.

  224. borse2st November 6, 2012 at 2:47 am #

    Er stehe zu seiner Ankündigung auszuwandern, sofern die Hamburger Bürgerschaftswahl für seine Gruppierung Pro DM/Schill mit einer Niederlage ende, sagte Schill am Sonntag in der ARD. “Wahrscheinlich nach Südamerika”, fügte er hinzu. Ersten Prognosen zufolge scheiterte seine Partei an der Fünf-Prozent-Hürde.
    “Charakterlich nicht geeignet”
    Der Weg vom “Richter Gnadenlos” zum “Shooting- Star” der Politik war für den Amtsrichter Schill so kurz wie seine glanzvolle Karriere als zweiter Bürgermeister und Innensenator Hamburgs. Knapp zwei Jahre lang durfte Schill an der Elbe mitregieren, bis Bürgermeister Ole von Beust (CDU) ihn an die Luft setzte. Er sei für das Amt “charakterlich nicht geeignet”, befand Beust, nachdem Schill ihm gedroht hatte, eine angebliche Liebesbeziehung Beusts mit seinem Justizsenator ?ffentlich zu machen,louis vuitton borse.
    Der Abstieg Schills nahm seinen Lauf, auch in der eigenen Partei. Dass er jetzt bei der Hamburger Bürgerschaftswahl mit seiner Partei Pro DM/Schill gnadenlos abgestraft wurde – weit entfernt von der Fünf-Prozent-Marke – überrascht nicht. Denn viele hatten ihn schon l?ngst als “politische Eintagsfliege” abgetan.
    Durch radikale Positionen, markige Sprüche und unhaltbare Versprechungen hatte Schill vor der Bürgerschaftswahl 2001 auf sich aufmerksam gemacht und senationelle 19,4 Prozent erreicht. “Lassen Sie mich weiter machen” warb er fast zurückhaltend um Stimmen für die Neuwahl, die erst durch seinen Bruch mit Beust und der eigenen Partei Rechtsstaatlicher Offensive n?tig geworden war.
    Als Innensenator musste Schill, der sich die Halbierung der Kriminalit?t auf die Fahnen geschrieben hatte, selbst viel einstecken. Kurz nach seinem Amtsantritt wurde ihm Kokainmissbrauch vorgeworfen. Eine Haarprobe belegte seine Unschuld. Für Aufregung sorgte er auch als Redner im Bundestag und Teilnehmer der Innenministerkonferenz: Hier hatte er im Herbst 2002 vorgeschlagen, “solches Gas” auch in Deutschland einzusetzen, das bei der Erstürmung eines Moskauer Theaters zahlreiche Geiseln das Leben gekostet hatte.
    Bei der Bundestagswahl eine Nullnummer
    Bei der Bundestagswahl 2002 entpuppte sich der glücklose Senator denn auch als Nullnummer, “mit einer Null vor dem Komma”, wie sich Kritiker freuten. Die W?hler lie?en ihn mit nur 0,8 Prozent rechts liegen. Geschlagen gab sich Schill aber noch nicht. “Wir h?tten sehr viel mehr verdient, deutlich über zehn Prozent”, meinte er und gab gleich dem ganzen Land die Schuld daran: “Deutschland hat nichts dazu gelernt”,Louis Vuitton Outlet.

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  225. turkleton November 6, 2012 at 3:03 am #

    Thanks, Q.
    If I write a book, you can be my editor.

  226. turkleton November 6, 2012 at 3:58 am #

    Look, the 7,000 year creation story is allegory.
    It was “created” by the mind of man. hehe!

    Only rather recently have the Christians backtracked and started to couch their Holy Book in the excuse that it should not be taken literally. Many still do, however, at least the parts they choose to incorporate in their personal belief systems.
    And if it is just an “allegory,” what of? What external symbols and ideas are being represented by the story of Genesis? Do you even know the definition of allegory?
    It is just a myth, that’s all, and an outmoded and useless one at that, though the King James Bible has some great passages in it. Still, that doesn’t mean it isn’t any less absurd and false.

    Just don’t try to extinguish ALL spirituality* from your mind*. It can’t be done.
    That becomes reductio ad absurdum, in a hurry.

    I don’t know what exactly you mean by spirituality, and I certainly don’t think it is any kind of reductio ad absurdum to deny the existence of the spiritual realm. It is merely a label for experiences and emotions which we don’t have other, more appropriate descriptors for, it seems to me. What need to extinguish something that isn’t there in the first place?

    *spirituality – aka hope for something on Earth besides dirt and death.

    I see a lot more than just dirt and death here. Why do you feel reality is so impoverished that it needs some overlay of mystical mumbo jumbo to be worthwhile and meaningful?
    If you mean that people hope for some kind of life beyond death, I do agree. This seems to me one of the primary sources of religious feelings, this unrealistic idea of living forever.

    *mind – aka the realm of the human spirit.

    No, my mind does not have a spirit in it. I don’t believe in that concept. What makes you think humans are special this way?
    Do dogs have spirit? I have met some really nice canines, man’s best friend ya know. Do they have a soul too?

    This does go in a circle, in a hurry, does it not?

    Not so much. This spiritual talk is more like a straight line right into the logical gutter.
    And you’re not explaining yourself very well. >.>

  227. Senneth November 6, 2012 at 4:08 am #

    Being There,
    Glad you’re safe and thanks for the report from NY. Also read your NY Times Magazine suggestion. Another sign of which direction we’re heading.
    Ozone, always love your comments and your links to information clearinghouse. Glad you’re safe, and glad Widespread (Marlin), BTB, Ripped and others are safe as well.
    Q, (glad you’re safe as well) loved your comment. Wish you’d do more of those kinds of posts.
    Prog, glad you’re still posting. Learned a lot from you. And agree, so far the comment thread is fun and good reading.
    Wage, Alexandra, Loveday, Julietteofohio wish you’d come back and post again.
    Scotty, loved your comments.
    I voted for Jill Stein. Both candidates from the two-sides-of-the-same-coin party are awful. And the 2008 primaries were even worse than this year’s election. What with gamed caucuses and bussed in people to take those cacuses over, and the name calling. I’ve been in politics a long time and never saw an election quite like 2008.
    JHK, how could you support the status quo with your vote? If you truly walked the talk you would have voted for Jill Stein. I’m disappointed with your vote for the status quo.

  228. sheppard November 6, 2012 at 6:04 am #

    “I’m sure there’s a lot of things that bother you guys. Haha. That being only one of them, I presume…”
    That’s your reaction to the fact that your electorial process is now defunt? Do you think the Romneys have the ethical fortitude not to tamper with the election results?
    Seriously, you guys are getting whatever comes along. Good luck!

  229. Widespreadpanic7 November 6, 2012 at 8:08 am #

    Well, I finally got around to watching ‘Inside Job’. Matt Damon did a decent job narrating the thing. It pretty much laid out what happened in the financial melt down of 2008-2009, events that were hardly touched in this election cycle, but the effects of which are still with us today.
    My only criticisms of the movie are: 1) The collapse was totally attributed to greed and malfeasance on the part of Wall Street (which certainly existed) but didn’t address the short-sightedness of an economy based upon easy credit and suburban real estate development in a time of declining energy resources. 2) Barney Frank was interviewed and was presented as a sort of sage critic above it all, not a powerful Congressman on the floor of of House of Representatives defending an insolvent FannyMae at a time when he was sleeping with Herb Moses, one of the Directors of FannyMae. That probably should’ve been mentioned.
    One thing I didn’t know is that many of Wall Street Grifters who made off with Big Paydays during that period are in the Obama Administration right now. Maybe that’s why there haven’t been the criminal prosecutions JHK often calls for.
    I don’t know, maybe we’ve moved on from those events of 4 years ago? Does it even matter anymore?

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  230. Widespreadpanic7 November 6, 2012 at 8:16 am #

    So, Sheppard, up there in Canada things are all well and fine? Your elections are on the up and up, eh?
    Seriously, you have your own problems. Don’t worry about us. I’m sure you’ll get what’s coming to you as well.

  231. Goat1080 November 6, 2012 at 8:50 am #

    Mistified – true, Native Americans most likely came to America (including what is now USA) from somewhere else, at least in theory. However, since they were here first, by the “first come” doctrine of land claim they were the true occupants of this land. For all aims and purposes, from their perspective, all Europeans and others who came much later were “illegal immigrants”, really, just invaders. There were treaties, however, those were generally ignored later on as settlers moved in and pushed the ‘Indians’ to the reservations. So here we are…

  232. eud2e5s7 November 6, 2012 at 9:44 am #

    In Afghanistan beteiligt sich Russland gemeinsam mit der Nato an einem gemeinsamen Programm, mit dem russische Hubschrauber der afghanischen Streitkr?fte wieder flottgemacht werden sollen. Damit nimmt eine neue Zusammenarbeit zwischen der Nato und Russland Gestalt an. Sie war im November 2010 von beiden Seiten in Lissabon beschlossen worden, nachdem die Nato im August 2008 die Kontakte wegen des Georgien-Kriegs auf Eis gelegt hatte.

    „Ich bin froh darüber, dass der Nato-Russland-Rat in einem guten Zustand ist“, sagte Nato-Generalsekret?r Anders Fogh Rasmussen. Zwar gab es in der Frage der Raketenabwehr noch keine Einigung. Rasmussen sprach jedoch von einem „sehr konstruktiven Dialog“: „Wir sind uns über die Architektur der Abwehr noch nicht einig. Aber wir haben das gemeinsame Ziel, die Bev?lkerung Russlands und der Nato-Staaten vor einer wirklichen Bedrohung durch Raketen zu schützen.“

    Die Nato pl?diert laut Rasmussen für zwei getrennte, aber eng miteinander verbundene Radar- und Raketenabwehrsysteme. Russland m?chte hingegen eine gemeinsame Entscheidung für den Fall eines Einsatzes.

    „Die Raketenabwehr sollte nicht zu neuen Gefahren für die strategische Stabilit?t führen“, sagte Lawrow. Bereits im Juni sollten sich die Verteidigungsminister beider Seiten mit den Ergebnissen von Expertenstudien befassen. „Im ersten Stadium müssen wir uns die Bedrohungsanalysen und die Architektur eines m?glichen künftigen europ?ischen Systems anschauen. Und dann müssen die Milit?rs und die Techniker über verschiedene Parameter beraten.“

    Der gemeinsame Hubschrauber-Fonds für Afghanistan ist mit acht Millionen Dollar (5,5 Millionen Euro) dotiert. Deutschland, das sich mit 3 Millionen Dollar beteiligt, übernimmt die Führungsrolle, Russland gibt sogar 3,5 Millionen Dollar. Auch D?nemark, Luxemburg und die Türkei sind dabei. Mit dem Geld sollen Techniker ausgebildet werden, damit 56 afghanische Hubschrauber der russischen Typen Mi-17 und Mi-35 wieder fliegen k?nnen.

    Die Helikopter sind wegen ihrer einfachen und robusten Konstruktion für das Land besonders gut geeignet sind. Au?erdem haben die USA noch weitere 21 russische Helikopter für insgesamt 370 Millionen Dollar hinzugekauft. „Dies ist ein greifbarer Beweis dafür, dass Zusammenarbeit wirkliche Sicherheitsvorteile bringt“, sagte Rasmussen in Berlin.

    Auch im Nato-Russland-Rat sorgte die Libyen-Krise für Diskussionen. Lawrow lobte, dass Rasmussen einen Einsatz von Bodentruppen ebenso wenig für vereinbar mit dem Mandat des UN-Sicherheitsrates h?lt wie Waffenlieferungen an die Rebellen. Zugleich warnte er die Nato jedoch vor einer „exzessiven Interpretation“ des UN-Mandats. „Der UN-Sicherheitsrat hat keinerlei Handlungen zum Zweck der Ver?nderung des Regimes in Libyen erlaubt“, sagte er. „Ich habe unsere Partner in der Nato aufgefordert, sich strikt und verantwortungsvoll an das Mandat des UN-Sicherheitsrates zu halten.“

    Rasmussen versicherte, die Nato halte sich strikt an das Mandat des Sicherheitsrates. „Die Nato ist absolut entschlossen, ihren Einsatz so lange fortzusetzen, wie es eine Bedrohung der libyschen Zivilbev?lkerung gibt“, sagte der Generalsekret?r des Bündnisses. „Und es ist unm?glich, sich vorzustellen, dass diese Bedrohung mit Gaddafi an der Macht verschwindet.“

  233. progress4spam November 6, 2012 at 9:45 am #

    Do not for a minute believe that the Original Immigrants to a North America Without Current Human Inhabitants (aka Indians, aka Native Americans) would not have pushed a switch and repelled all of the European and African “invaders” if they could have.
    In other words, invoking Native Americans into an argument concerning present day immigration is just an emotional distractor from total NUMBERS of immigrants – and those NUMBERS are unsustainable without oil, modern agriculture, and extremely good luck. (all three of which WILL run out, some day.)
    Illegal vs. Legal is also a distractor from the real problems of too high NUMBERS – just as much as Dem. vs Repub. is a distractor, from the real problems of a Corporate controlled Congress and Corporate-staffed National Govt.
    And yeah – our problems in the US are more than simply jobs-based, but this link will get you started on the real issues.

  234. progress4spam November 6, 2012 at 9:59 am #

    I was really aiming for Scotty – you got caught up in the crossfire. (and yeah, I mentioned you by name – my bad.) You want to extinguish all belief in anything that is not PRESENTLY accessible to the 5 human senses through PRESENT technology and the scientific method.
    I believe it will always be wise to be skeptical about doctrinal Atheism. And yeah, it is certainly possible to be an Atheist Bigot, as bigotry is defined.*
    I posted a link from this guy last week.
    Scotty attacked the very idea of even presenting a scientific theory. I took umbrage.
    Still do.
    Here’s a layman’s article and quote from the same Dr. Hamerhoff.
    “In the event of the patient’s death, it was “possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body indefinitely – as a soul”.
    Dr Hameroff believes new findings about the role quantum physics plays in biological processes, such as the navigation of birds, adds weight to the theory.”
    Science advances, boys, and you can’t stop it.
    If science wants to investigate and propose theories about the human soul, that’s what science will do.
    And if those theories prove correct, we will have to revise some of Atheist Doctrine.
    That is all.

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  235. progress4spam November 6, 2012 at 10:06 am #

    And no, it is not accurate to call me a “bigot” about immigration – because I’m always willing to listen to new viewpoints and change my views if new information is presented.
    For example, I might become an enthusiastic proponent of unrestricted 1,000,000+ immigrants/year into the US forever – IF – anyone could present a reason for more immigration that does not fit into one of these three categories:
    1. More growth is always good.
    2. More diversity is always good.
    3. Moral platitudes (nation of immigrants, etc.)
    The gauntlet is thrown.

  236. progress4spam November 6, 2012 at 10:12 am #

    OK, end with humor.
    And remember I’m a confirmed 3rd party voter.
    But this is just plain funny, with some element of truth, maybe??
    “Obama will be leading in the Exit Polls All Day.
    – that is –
    Until all the Republican Voters finally get off work and can go vote.
    Laugh. It won’t kill you.

  237. Kyooshtik November 6, 2012 at 12:45 pm #

    The specific assertions and rules are what get me,
    For wacky rules it is hard to beat the orthodox Jews although the Mormons are no slouches. There are so many (ie rules) and they are so wack that I don’t feel it is even necessay to cite an example.
    Oh, what the hell, I’ll cite just one, my favorite: the pre-sundown-on-the-sabbath tearing of a supply of toilet tissue. You see, tearing off a length of toilet tissue is deemed to be WORK and work is not permitted on the sabbath.
    We live in a town with a high population of Jews including many orthodox several of whom are clients of my wife who has her own little sole- proprietorship as an esthetician. While she’s got them on the table and is performing the laying on of hands and administering her ablutions, she picks their brains. She is a first rate amateur cultural anthropologist, the Margaret Mead of facials, skin care and massage therapy. She knows more about the Jews than some Jews and I get to hear the stories at the dinner table.
    What gets me is that there are orthodox Jews who will go on vacation and order a rasher of bacon with their breakfast so long as they are sure they won’t be spotted by any Jew they know…and they don’t see the irony in this. They do not suffer the fantods that a Catholic might under similar circumstances.

  238. anti soak November 6, 2012 at 12:51 pm #

    I found something yesterday, cant find it today.
    But this is more of the same:
    Thom Hartman cuts off caller who brings up AIPAC – American Israel …

  239. anti soak November 6, 2012 at 12:56 pm #

    The jooish guilt trip, sneaking off to eat pork.
    Did the wife know anyone who knew anyone in the
    ‘body parts scandal’.

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  240. beantown bill November 6, 2012 at 1:03 pm #

    Q, I must admit, when I was an 11 year old tadpole who didn’t know any better, I experienced a 2-month period in which I thought I might become a rabbi. I befriended an orthodox boy my age, and when he told me all the crazy things I had to watch out for, I quickly changed my mind. Things like not allowing women to walk in front of you, e.g.
    In other words, Q, I agree with you that Orthodox Judaism is too extreme (and yes, wacky) for the modern world.

  241. k-dog November 6, 2012 at 1:05 pm #

    K-Dog voted for K-Dog today. King county WA was kind enough to provide a write in line on the ballot.
    &10004 vote K-Dog
    All Dogs Eat!!

  242. k-dog November 6, 2012 at 1:08 pm #

    ✔ Vote K-Dog
    Oops made a mistake in the secret code for the K-Dog check mark.
    That’s Better

  243. k-dog November 6, 2012 at 1:12 pm #

    ? Vote K-Dog
    ? Vote K-Dog
    ? Vote K-Dog
    ? Vote K-Dog
    ? Vote K-Dog
    ? Vote K-Dog
    ? Vote K-Dog
    ? Vote K-Dog
    ? Vote K-Dog
    ? Vote K-Dog
    ? Vote K-Dog
    Because all dogs eat.

  244. neuromancer November 6, 2012 at 1:38 pm #

    speaking only for myself i don’t see as how i can vote for that obomney feller. it would seem to me that casting ones ballot for the corporate clone would only serve to extend the life span of the american commercial empire.
    all of the cultural realities of our times are dependent upon the smooth functioning of the barcode dynasty which has spread to near every corner of the planet. the oil imports of the USA, the trans-pacific shipping lanes, the profits of Wall Street, all built and maintained by corporate dominance of the planet.
    does one even need to mention gitmo? the NDAA? the drone wars? indefinite detention? nope, sorry, JHK, i love your blurbs, i read your post every Monday morning, but you are wrong on this one; and i don’t think your ecumenical gods will save you, me, or the species.

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  245. beantown bill November 6, 2012 at 1:45 pm #

    Okay, Procon, I’ve tried to explain to you why you shouldn’t vote, but you are not hearing me, so I’m going to try one more time, along a slightly different track.
    The reason why I don’t vote is because I despise the system. It isn’t the candidates I despise. I thought Romney was pretty decent as a governor here and I think Obama could have been a worse president, say along the lines of W.
    In CFN we have a pretty good handle on what America and the world’s issues are. The overriding point of it all is why aren’t we taking appropriate actions on these issues?
    We can blame it all on a nefarious conspiracy of the elites. But in my experience with extremely wealthy and powerful people, I eventually found I could almost predict how one of them would react in a given situation. What I found was elites think in a narrow band of responses, and are exceptionally focused to always advance their wealth and power. I believe there’s no actual conspiracy, but a great similarity of responses from them which gives the appearance of conspiracy. So I don’t think we ought to place ultimate blame on them for our problems.
    Let’s face it; it’s been an American world since the end of WW2. The way things are now is the result of almost 70 years of American decision-making. Since our revolution, our political system has been evolving, which is natural. What isn’t natural, is what the system has evolved into. I won’t go into details with you on that because you are aware enough to look around you and see what’s going on.
    It’s the way we conduct our political business that has resulted in our present day mess, not so much the individual politician. That’s why I think many of those smart people that blame the elites might be on the right track and are more aware than the general public, but they have not pulled the curtain back all the way to see it’s our whole political process that’s at fault.
    Voting for a particular candidate is only voting for policy, but not dealing with the mechanism behind everything. Until the political system is fixed, it makes more sense to me to not vote. Not voting sends a message that something’s wrong with the system. If the percentage of non-voters were to become very large, then people would definitely take notice, and maybe begin to think of why it is so. Voting only says one made a choice on which policies one likes. This is why most people become disillusioned with an administration after only few years: the public never thinks about the process, which is the actual culprit.
    And that’s why I’m not voting.

  246. Mrs. Soake November 6, 2012 at 1:50 pm #

    A vote for Mitt Romney is a vote for FUN!

  247. rippedthunder November 6, 2012 at 2:33 pm #

    So I just voted and had to wait in line for about twenty minutes. First time that ever happened. Cop at poll booth tells me there is a very large turnout. Some people say almost 75%. I think it is more of a Scott Brown vs. Elizabeth Warren thing than a presidential vote. Mass. always goes Democratic even though Mittens was the Govna’ a few years back. Batten down the hatches O3, me thinks your in for a Noreaster’ on Wed.! The weather wizards are calling for 3-6″ but last Halloween we were supposed to get 2-4″ and we got 20″!! Weather prediction sucks in New England. I’m not getting caught off guard this year. The plow is out and ready to go.

  248. Rhino November 6, 2012 at 3:02 pm #

    “As for the conservative base, however, I think the intelligence distribution is skewed to one side, at least from all the interactions I’ve had with self-styled Republicans and conservatives.” -Turkleton
    Data and evidence once again. This time on people’s behavior and speech. “…skewed to one side…”? No need to ask which side.
    So here’s some data and evidence from the perspective of an outsider. You have the benefit of seeing it from the inside. But I’ve had the the benefit of not only of a half century of watching the tumult in America but also of distance from its rancorous politics and sectarian mudslinging:
    To repeat, people to the north of the Mason Dixon Line (so-called “progressive” America) are not intellectually superior to people south of it (the “conservative” heartlands). Intelligence is not magically elevated the further north you travel, nor does it decline as you travel south.
    Nascar fans are not microcephalic cretins that chase their sisters. Nor are liberals anything like the reality based scientists they like to think they are. For every ideological idiocy originating from the south of the line (from conservatives), one emanates from the north (from liberals).
    Listen up and take the advice of someone not embalmed in American factional loyalties. Insulting a large group of fellow citizens, in this case the conservative base – about their intelligence or lack thereof, no matter how much you think they have it coming – is rarely useful.
    Trust me on this, just as people are blind to their own inadequacies no matter how much and how often they get pointed out, people on either side of the American political/ideological divide are blind and deaf to their own absurdities.
    So how does one demonstrate one’s superiority to what one might see as the gap toothed, small-town morons and deranged Jesus followers one might like to deride? One does what every religion that’s worth a damn preaches: exercise self restraint. One puts a cork in it.
    The way things are now the two sections of America, blue and red, might get along better if they were different countries. If only it were that easy. Sadly, as history shows, American or otherwise, it seldom is.
    Do the right thing. When the overpowering urge to offend a large group of people is overpowering, breathe deeply, close your eyes and shut your hole.
    Just so you don’t feel too bad about the way things are where you’re at, things are monumentally screwed up all over. America is unexceptional in this respect. Murderous pathology is everywhere. Inevitably shit will wash up on your shores and I predict that whoever wins this election is going to regret it.

  249. asoka.. November 6, 2012 at 3:03 pm #

    For those who like Joe Bageant, an article of his has just been published:
    Tribute to a white trash saint
    Hiram Hank Williams was his full name and he was born in Georgiana, Alabama on Sept. 17, 1923, the son of a railroad engineer and a very crude and dominant mother whose character had been permanently scarred by the harsh realities of a dirt-poor South.

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  250. Jam47 November 6, 2012 at 3:03 pm #

    You say that God belongs in the same category as unicorns, fairies, and leprechauns, the category of the unprovable. But God and these creatures don’t belong in the same category at all.
    Unicorns, fairies, and leprechauns, are supposed to exist here on earth. In theory, they are amenable to the senses and can, under the right circumstances, be seen. However, since their putative existence defies common sense and zoology, no sane person will claim to believe in them.
    God, on the other hand, is NOT amenable to human sense. In philosophical talk, God is not a sensible object. God’s existence cannot therefore be proved or disproved, directly, by observation, whether lay or scientific.
    As for your statement that belief in God is based on faith, this is both true and not true. Take the case, historically, of Christianity. The vast majority of Christians throughout history have swallowed the God idea because of the authoritative-sounding statements of the Church. But there was always a tiny minority who would likely have abandoned Christianity if their faith had not been buttressed by proof. Yes, proof. Proofs to their minds if not to yours: the first-cause proof, the intelligent-design proof, the ontological proof. Now, it’s true that these proofs (I’m not claiming that they are proofs TO ME) are rational rather than empirical. And since they are not empirical, they are not scientific. But there are other proofs than those grounded in the empirical. Don’t think so? Then throw away all your arithmetical and geometrical knowledge. The proofs offered by these disciplines aren’t empirical either.
    My position on the God question? I’m an agnostic. To admit to agnosticism is to admit to a lack of nerve. I understand this. But I’ve got lots of company.

  251. Kyooshtik November 6, 2012 at 3:11 pm #

    I get the impression that many people are voting only because they have been brainwashed into thinking in terms of “civic duty.” I feel that a majority of votes this year will be on a “lesser of two evils” basis. I find no one enthusiastically in love with the candidate for whom they will “pull the lever.” I detect many are grappling with the most appropriate way to cast a “protest vote”: i.e.
    . do not vote at all
    . vote for a third party candidate who cannot possibly win and whose name you will be unable to recall by this time next year
    . enter a write-in such as Scrooge McDuck or K-Dog
    . etc.
    Imagine if you will a block being provided on the ballot for each Office Title labeled NONE with an asterisk. Similar to the section of the ballot where Public Questions and Interpretive Statements appear would be the following explanation for the meaning of a check mark in the NONE block:
    ‘Voting “NONE” is considered a protest vote against all listed candidates and/or the entire election process.’
    Any significant percentage of NONE votes might bring down the entire system. That is why there will never be a viable way to cast a protest vote.

  252. Kyooshtik November 6, 2012 at 3:39 pm #

    Well, the wife and m-i-l just departed for the polls. The wife is pissed at me and thinks I am starting “to lose it again,” to get into one of my depressions, this time by swearing off voting till I die.
    My mother-in-law has been dressed up and dolled up by her daughter so as you’d think she really has her act together for 90.5 years old.
    The truth is, though, she couldn’t possibly operate the voting machine without my wife there to guide her every move. Hell, I am not exaggerating when I say Mom can no longer operate a light switch. (She is baffled by the sliding dimmer bar.) Today she thinks she’s voting for “Rah-meh-nee.” Yesterday it was Obama. Ah well, my wife will straighten her out when they get in the booth.
    It is laughable to think of Mom reading the two Public Questions and their Interpretive Statements dealing with State Bond issues for various purposes. I shudder to think of how many others have no idea of who, why or what they are voting for.

  253. asoka.. November 6, 2012 at 3:42 pm #

    Change comes from the bottom up, not the top down. What the Green Party is about is not winning the presidency; it is about building a social movement — and people everywhere are engaging through Occupy, anti-war demonstrations, Medicare for all, environmental efforts and much more. Teachers in Chicago are standing up for public education and going back to work with winning contracts. Walmart workers are standing up and fighting for their rights.
    We must keeping building the social movement. The Green party is poised to be the electoral arm fighting alongside activists across the county. But candidates can’t do this alone. Only together will we rebuild our democracy.

  254. JonathanSS November 6, 2012 at 5:05 pm #

    You’ll be glad to know I voted GREEN. I think my 86 year old father in ILL is doing the same. Both CA & IL are in the bag for Quobama, so we have no impact on electoral college totals.

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  255. mistified November 6, 2012 at 5:23 pm #

    “Did you expect Obama himself to show up in a hard hat a few hours after the storm broke and start restoring your downed power lines?
    No, fucklips, I expected him to do exactly as he did. Show up for photo op. Board plane for Vegas fundraiser. The man is as predictable as a trained seal.

  256. mistified November 6, 2012 at 5:28 pm #

    “How on earth would you have any idea whether or not Romney would make a better president?”
    Because my fucking dog would make a better president. Strike that. My dog’s dick would make a better president.

  257. mistified November 6, 2012 at 5:32 pm #

    “The discontent, anger, and negativity is immense out there. ”
    Really? When the president claims that “Voting is the best revenge.”? So, we are to vote for a president that is angry, negative and discounted? (Don’t forget “vengeful”.)

  258. mistified November 6, 2012 at 5:35 pm #

    ” I’ll be the first to applaud his success.”
    Talk about the sound of one hand clapping. Who the fuck cares if you applaud someone’s success. Like you could even measure success. What a douche-drip.

  259. mistified November 6, 2012 at 5:37 pm #

    “Obama contacted Governor Christie six times, once in the middle of the night, in order to expedite the disaster declaration.”
    So, it wasn’t a disaster until Obama declared it so? That is fucking funnnnnny.

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  260. mistified November 6, 2012 at 5:40 pm #

    turkleton replied to COMMENT FROM TURKLETON | NOVEMBER 5, 2012 7:48 PM | REPLY
    For fuck’s sake would you shut your fucking yap already. More than once today you have had a conversation with your idiotic self.

  261. mistified November 6, 2012 at 5:43 pm #

    “1. Abstinence from killing all forms of life”
    Hmmm including plants? Guess Budhists don’t live very long.

  262. asoka.. November 6, 2012 at 5:47 pm #

    And how would you react if every single legislative proposal Romney offered was met with a Democratic filibuster, resulting in nothing getting done?
    The Republicans have deployed a historic record number of 374 filibusters to oppose Obama.
    The Republicans have blocked everything Obama tried to do. From Day One they met to commit treason against the United States. They said they were going to put party above country and make sure Obama was a one-term president. They signed pledges with Grover Norquist and refused to pass legislation that Norquist did not approve, even though voters did not vote to elect Norquist.
    How would you react if Democrats signed a pledge with Soros and voted down every Romney proposal because it did not meet with Soros’ approval?
    How would you react if Democrats met on Day One of a Romney presidency and vowed to do everything possible to make him a one-term president?
    How would you react if a President Romney changed positions to back Democratic legislation, only to have Democrats oppose Romney, even when he supported the Democrats’ own positions and their own legislation, just to make sure Romney had no record to run on?

  263. mistified November 6, 2012 at 5:49 pm #

    “And how would you react if every single legislative proposal Romney offered was met with a Democratic filibuster, resulting in nothing getting done?”
    If they were as moronic as the proposals of Obama I would react with a loud cheer. Obama got enough shit through the goose. Thank God he found resistance as often as he did.

  264. asoka.. November 6, 2012 at 5:54 pm #

    A raw foods diet consisting of unprocessed raw vegan foods that have not been heated above 115 degrees Fahrenheit (46 degrees Celsius) do not kill the vegetables enzymes (and thus a significant amount of their nutritional value) and the enzymes continue living in the human body.
    Nice try, but no cigar.

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  265. mistified November 6, 2012 at 5:54 pm #

    “How would you react if Democrats met on Day One of a Romney presidency …”
    Hey douche, I can do better than that. Here is what Harry Reid said recently:
    “Mitt Romney’s fantasy that Senate Democrats will work with him to pass his ‘severely conservative’ agenda is laughable,” Reid said.
    Reid didn’t even wait till “day one”. He came out with his little gem BEFORE day one. Bwa, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha!

  266. asoka.. November 6, 2012 at 5:56 pm #

    A raw foods diet does not kill the vegetables’ enzymes.

  267. asoka.. November 6, 2012 at 5:57 pm #

    Yeah, he was speaking hypothetically, that’s for sure.

  268. mistified November 6, 2012 at 5:58 pm #

    “…do not kill the vegetables enzymes…”
    Nah, it just turns them into shit. So, you think its cool to turn little turnips and carrots into shit? Fuck I’d rather die. Now you, on the other hand…???

  269. asoka.. November 6, 2012 at 6:00 pm #

    Yes, just as God intended (as Richard Mourdock says)

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  270. asoka.. November 6, 2012 at 6:32 pm #

    Yes, just as “God intended” (as Richard Mourdock says) just below Mourdock loses to the Democrat in liberal Indiana. The Tea Party has caused much harm to the Republican Party. 2010 is not 2012.

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  272. Jam47 November 6, 2012 at 8:11 pm #

    Sheppard is smug. But is he Canadian? If he is both smug and a Canadian, his kind is getting less numerous by the day. It’s being eliminated by immigration from the T

  273. Jam47 November 6, 2012 at 8:14 pm #

    …immigration from the Third World. These immigrants do not give the old-line Anglos and their imitators the respect they think they deserve. It’s about time.

  274. Cavepainter November 6, 2012 at 8:16 pm #

    Get over it; the US is no longer an independent sovereign nation having self determination. We’re a colony of global finance and whoever wins the election will serve as colonial governor on behalf of global corporate interests.
    Both campaigns are simply variation on the same theme of global free market delivering a global middle class resembling the broad US middle class of the early 1970s (when the US was only 5% of the world population but able to leverage over 60% of available resources).
    What crap! The so called developing nations aren’t, they’re worse off than they were 40 year ago. What is being measured as “growth” is a narrow sliver of wealth class. Below that is another narrow sliver; a “middle class” consisting of professionals, administrators and apparatchiks. Otherwise, the only “broad class” is that living in unremitting poverty – always growing in number.
    Which is scarier; that both candidates actually have a religious faith in such secular economic myth or that they are just cynical front men? Or, maybe worse,….they are just that stupid?
    Face it; we’re like the passengers in steerage on the sinking Titanic. That is, even local elections are futile since surrender (and sale) of our national sovereignty predetermines our destiny to be at mercy of global forces. Rather than walling ourselves off from the cascading catastrophe of global overpopulation and concomitant scarcer resources we’re having our national destiny further twined within it.
    Look for quality of life in the US to degrade below any recognizable in prior eras. No, I’m speaking of materialistic consumerism but of intrinsic qualities such as wilderness, species diversity, wildlife habitat, uncrowded space, sustainable and generous food supply, etc., etc.
    Extending forward the moral justification for the DREAM Act argues that the US must accept all foreign nationals — no matter their numbers — who believe they might advantage by coming to the US. Obama has essentially given official sanction to the “anchor baby” tactic by skewing interpretation of the 14th Amendment. It specifically excludes children born to families in the US on assignment such as diplomat or ambassador, yet the public has been persuaded that the framers of the Amendment actually had intention of extending a perpetual impunity to all foreign nationals who choose to break our immigration laws.

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  276. anti soak November 6, 2012 at 9:56 pm #


  277. anti soak November 6, 2012 at 10:01 pm #

    I like this especially…
    Face it; we’re like the passengers in steerage on the sinking Titanic. That is, even local elections are futile since surrender (and sale) of our national sovereignty predetermines our destiny to be at mercy of global forces.
    Rather than walling ourselves off from the cascading catastrophe of global overpopulation and concomitant scarcer resources we’re having our national destiny further twined within it.
    [Did ya see the picture of the vehicle they ‘ramped’ over the wall on the southern border?]

  278. Kyooshtik November 6, 2012 at 10:25 pm #

    Five – ten minutes ago the national popular vote was:
    . 24,061,000 Romney
    . 23,343,000 Obama
    . 00,000,001 Stein
    Pundits’ sources say they believe the one Stein vote came from a mud hut in the southwest.

  279. progress4spam November 6, 2012 at 10:38 pm #

    “Okay, Procon, I’ve tried to explain to you why you shouldn’t vote, but you are not hearing me” -btb-
    I’m hearing you just fine, Bill.
    But I disagree with you.
    Participation in presidential elections has dropped roughly 10% since the 1950’s. Do you truly think it would matter to our “leaders” if participation dropped another 10% or more? If so please explain WHY you believe this.
    As long as the facade of voting in our two-party system can be maintained – then the facade will guard and protect all of the societal and political problems that you (quite accurately, btw) address. In other words, voting participation could probably drop to 30%, or less, of the electorate in the Dem/Rep charade – and nothing would change. This is especially true since the major voting block FACTIONS (blacks, hispanics, angry white males, you name it) would become MORE important as overall voting rates dropped.
    OTOH, if 10% of the vote began to go toward 3rd parties, consistently, then the Dem/Rep/Corporatists *might* have to pay attention.
    Someone on my TV just said something insightful with which I agreed. (almost never happens, btw)
    He said that Perot pulled almost 19% of the popular vote by focusing on deficit spending, AND that this was why Clinton focused so intensely and so well ON the deficit when he was elected.
    K/Q you and bill are the big CFN proponents of NOT VOTING as a form of protest. You have anything else to add that I’m missing or that bill hasn’t addressed?
    Not voting is like not fighting.
    Not voting is giving up.
    It’s just not in my nature.

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  280. Kyooshtik November 6, 2012 at 10:40 pm #

    The after hours futures markets are reflecting the perceived outcome of the election.
    S&P 500 -13.40
    Nasdaq -13.00
    DJIA -101.00
    The fear apparently is that either Obama or Romney will win.

  281. asoka.. November 6, 2012 at 11:29 pm #

    Barfy barf and mistified and all the other FAUX NEWS watchers:
    Where was the Romney LANDSLIDE you predicted?
    Obama is the first president to win re-election since FDR with such a high unemployment rate, because people know the economy is headed in the right direction.
    This makes two elections in a row that Asoka’s predictions were correct, while you white boys were wrong McCain and Romney. Dude couldn’t refuse to show his tax returns and become president.

  282. anti soak November 6, 2012 at 11:35 pm #

    Obama may get power to shut down Internet without court oversight …
    Jan 24, 2011 – Obama may get power to shut down Internet without court oversight …. THEY ARE TRYING TO STOP THE FREE FLOW OF INFORMATION.
    Prison Planet.com » Obama Can Shut Down Internet For 4 Months …
    Jun 25, 2010 – President Obama will be handed the power to shut down the Internet for at least four months without Congressional oversight if the Senate

  283. anti soak November 6, 2012 at 11:36 pm #


  284. Kyooshtik November 6, 2012 at 11:47 pm #

    OK, as expected, Obama is the projected winner. I think I can hear my brother-in-law screaming bloody murder…he lives 42 miles away. Maybe he committed suicide. He threatened to if BO won. Looks like cancelling the deportations worked like a charm.
    Next come the sappy platitude-filled concession speeches that the writers have been polishing up all afternoon.
    I heard Elizabeth Warren delivering a winners speech and almost hurled on my keyboard…just missed. You will never guess what she says she will do once she’s in office…create jobs and put people back to work. I wonder why the other guy didn’t think of doing that.

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  285. borse2st November 7, 2012 at 12:11 am #

    Lo aveva promesso in campagna elettorale. Ribadito a più riprese, con la destra che lo accusava di facile demagogia. Sì, la riduzione degli stipendi dei manager, almeno quelli delle aziende pubbliche, è uno dei cavalli di battaglia di . Ebbene, ieri al consiglio dei ministri, Pierre Moscovici, il ministro delle Finanze, ha presentato un decreto che porterà a una riduzione generalizzata delle entrate degli alti dirigenti nelle imprese controllate dello Stato. Con la speranza che abbia effetti benefici anche sul privato.

    Il provvedimento dovrebbe diventare operativo già a fine giugno. E si applicherà pure ai contratti in essere. Si può dire che Hollande e il suo ministro ci sono andati giù abbastanza pesanti, invertendo una tendenza ai rialzi a ripetizione innescata nei conglomerati pubblici negli anni di Nicolas Sarkozy. Innanzitutto il decreto prevede un limite massimo di 450mila euro annui lordi, “che entrerà in vigore già quest’anno e in certe società l’anno prossimo. Mi sembra che guadagnare 450mila euro all’anno non sia un deterrente per trovare donne e uomini di qualità da mettere alla guida delle nostre imprese”, ha precisato Moscovici, rispondendo a chi accusa Hollande di mettersi fuori mercato (Stéphane Richard, l’amministratore delegato di France Télécom, ad esempio, dove lo Stato francese detiene una partecipazione minoritaria, intasca un milione e mezzo all’anno).

    Tale regola, comunque, si applicherà solo ai gruppi dove lo Stato detiene una partecipazione maggioritaria, che sono in tutto una quindicina, come il colosso energetico Edf, quello ferroviario Sncf o il nucleare Areva. A queste stesse aziende si applicherà tale regola: i salari più alti dovranno essere massimo venti volte più elevati di quelli ai minimi. All’inizio il rapporto doveva essere calcolato all’interno di ogni gruppo. Ma poi Hollande e Moscovici hanno deciso di andare oltre: si prenderà come riferimento il 10% del personale meno pagato di tutti i gruppi e si farà una media. Il rapporto di venti volte verrà calcolato su quella base,Louis Vuitton Outlet. In questo modo si impedisce che i salari possano andare particolarmente verso l’alto nelle aziende, come Edf, dove quelli minimi sono relativamente elevati. Proprio Edf è uno dei casi nel mirino dell’Esecutivo: attualmente l’ad, Henri Proglio, guadagna 63 volte di più dei suoi colleghi meno pagati. Il manager, un sarkozysta di ferro, sarà tra quelli a dover subire uno dei tagli più vertiginosi alle sue entrate.

    Hollande e compagnia, comunque, non si sono fermati qui. Vogliono colpire anche le aziende dove le partecipazioni nel capitale sono minoritarie, come France Télécom e la compagnia aerea Air France. “In questo caso – si legge nel decreto – il Governo chiederà ai rappresentanti dello Stato, che siedono nei consigli d’amministrazione, di proporre le stesse misure”, applicate nei gruppi a controllo pubblico maggioritario. La speranza del presidente è che il nuovo trend si estenda anche al business privato (qui, in Francia, il rapporto fra gli stipendi più bassi e quelli più alti può arrivare a un massimo di uno a 400). In ogni caso il Governo sta già studiando una nuova legge da presentare entro la fine dell’anno e che dovrà contenere stock options, bonus e altri incentivi destinati a tutti i dirigenti, anche quelli delle imprese private.

    Che Hollande facesse sul serio si era capito subito, con l’affaire Air France. che l’aveva ottenuto sottoscrivendo una clausola di non concorrenza (l’impegno a non lavorare per i concorrenti della compagnia aerea per tre anni). Quel voto era stato determinato dalle proteste pubbliche del Governo, che aveva invitato tutti, non solo i suoi rappresentanti, a votare contro, trovando indecente, in una fase di difficoltà per il gruppo e di probabili licenziamenti, il pagamento di un bonus del genere. Non è ancora chiaro se Gourgeon, comunque, dovrà restituire quell’indennizzo, che, in realtà,louis vuitton borse, aveva già incassato. La questione è ancora aperta. All’origine di mille polemiche.

    Intanto ora la destra, ormai all’opposizione, ha ironizzato su queste “misure morali” di Hollande. Il limite ai salari dei supermanager pubblici a 450mila euro annui “è estremamente ipocrita”, ha detto Jean-Fran?ois Copé, segretario generale dell’Ump, il partito erede della tradizione neogollista. “Si fa credere ai francesi che si risolvono così i problemi di bilancio ed economici, riducendo gli stipendi dei dirigenti del nostro Paese – ha precisato -Invece, non si risolve proprio un bel niente. Di certo non i problemi di ingiustizia sociale”.

  286. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 12:22 am #

    Rove said it was “premature” and “early” to make any real decisions.
    “So, maybe not so fast, folks!” Wallace said. There was a pained silence.
    “Uh, thank you!” Bret Baier said.
    “That’s awkward,” Megyn Kelly added.
    Baier then said that he would get someone from the network’s election desk to explain why it had made the call. Kelly walked across the office, cameras trailing her, to speak with the number-crunchers.
    The number-crunchers calmly repudiated Rove.
    “We’re actually quite comfortable with the call in Ohio,” one of them said. Another said he was “99.9 percent” certain that the president had been re-elected.
    “There just aren’t enough Republican votes left for Mitt Romney to get there,” a fellow decision desk member added.
    Rove continued to contest the call.
    “They know the science!” Kelly responded, exasperatedly.
    It turned out that nobody was on Rove’s side.
    “They’re not listening to Karl,” Kelly said with some finality, as she went to a break.
    The world reacted with stammering befuddlement.

  287. katbalou2 November 7, 2012 at 12:25 am #

    Obama should win. No, not because I voted for him nor because he is the better candidate but because he ought to have to take responsibility for the mess he has created and for legislation that has eroded the rights of citizens (NDAA springs immediately to mind). Obama has blamed everything on everybody else. Now, presupposing he wins and I have no doubt that the election results have been so dishonestly “arranged” that he will, Obama will appropriately be held to account for what I very sadly feel will be the final chapter for the U.S. End of novel because I very much fear that our Nobel Peace Prize leader will involve us in a world war to end all wars.

  288. rocco November 7, 2012 at 12:26 am #

    I voted Green Party President, because like JHK says both parties will not be able to deal with peak oil, mass consumption lifestyle and the burb mental state. BUT I am GLAD that the Pro Rape jerks lost!! Another than that the slide will continue so prep learn skills in garden, first aid, solar power, community gardens, outreach and for Zeus’s sake have some fun!!!!!

  289. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 12:37 am #

    Minnesota, Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio

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  290. zapqjdcw16 November 7, 2012 at 12:41 am #

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  291. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 12:59 am #

    Once again the community organizer proves more competent at organizing a political campaign than a career politician. Millions of dollars in ugly and untrue Republican attack ads? Meh.

  292. Radu Voda November 7, 2012 at 1:00 am #

    So who did you cast your meaningless vote for? I voted for Virgil Goode, Constitution Party. Many WN’s couldn’t stay clean and ended up voting for Romney, a Neo Con style globalist.

  293. Radu Voda November 7, 2012 at 1:04 am #

    I think it was Mencken who said no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American People. And as dumb as the average White Guy is with his IQ of 100 – by definition half the population is even dumber. And that’s not even including the Darks who are even dumber. Democracy is hopeless, completely hopeless – just a surrender to the Mob and those who rule the Mob with bread and circuses.

  294. Radu Voda November 7, 2012 at 1:09 am #

    At least the disaster of the next four years will have a Black Face on it. And countless more Whites will be awakened to the threat to our Nation from non-Whites. If Romney had won, it would just be another Bush type presidency, more treading water as the minorities pour in – even as America attempted to export the failed American Culture abroad.
    The Country is lost. We have to start thinking of what comes next. And that starts with educating the people to the new reality. And Obama and his Attorney General Eric “my people” Holder, and their Black racist mobs will do this admirably.

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  295. gordona4v November 7, 2012 at 1:42 am #

    Free Articles Online The Necessary Advantages of Computer Accessories

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  296. Radu Voda November 7, 2012 at 2:09 am #

    I wonder what Tipper Gore is doing these days. She must be quite a woman to live with the an Asshole Seal-Man like Al.

  297. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 2:19 am #

    Yes, the country is lost to white males, the ones who ran the country into a ditch.
    You are not in control anymore. Diversity has won. Multiculturalism has won. Miscegenation has won.
    The new majority is non-white and non-male, and perfectly capable of getting the country out of senseless wars, and out of the economic ditch, with another 32 consecutive months of positive private sector job growth, dropping rates of unemployment, and moves toward energy independence through a synergistic strategy that intelligently combines energy conservation, nuclear energy, and alternative renewable sources of energy.
    A Black man has once again won both the electoral vote count and the popular vote count. The country is not lost; the country is changing and you refuse to change with it. Deal with it.

  298. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 2:24 am #

    Elizabeth Warren for President, 2016
    No more old white men in the White House, ever.

  299. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 2:28 am #

    Boy, Americans sure are dumb, especially Romney supporters.

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  300. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 2:30 am #

    “Deal with it.”
    Posting hysterically here on kunstler.com is Vlad’s way of dealing with it, asoka. We should just let him blow his wad here. It is a release valve. Otherwise, he might do something really crazy.

  301. run_dmc November 7, 2012 at 2:31 am #

    Well, Kunstler – your hero won tonight. Maybe now his acolytes will start holding him accountable for his failures. I won’t hold my breath for that, since you all are too far gone. I will; however, be high tailing it out of the country. No former president could get me to leave – not Reagan, Clinton or Bush. But, I finally don’t want to live in a country that would elect this sociopath President twice.

  302. Pucker November 7, 2012 at 2:32 am #

    “Pucker —
    I’m about to go speak to the crowd here in Chicago, but I wanted to thank you first.
    I want you to know that this wasn’t fate, and it wasn’t an accident. You made this happen.
    You organized yourselves block by block. You took ownership of this campaign five and ten dollars at a time. And when it wasn’t easy, you pressed forward.
    I will spend the rest of my presidency honoring your support, and doing what I can to finish what we started.
    But I want you to take real pride, as I do, in how we got the chance in the first place.
    Today is the clearest proof yet that, against the odds, ordinary Americans can overcome powerful interests.
    There’s a lot more work to do.
    But for right now: Thank you.

  303. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 2:36 am #

    Easy there, fella. You’re about to blow a gasket. How about you try not reading my posts, if they bother you so much? I wouldn’t want you to get herniated or anything on my account.
    Scrolling past my writing would be easy enough but apparently you have some kind of morbid, unhealthy obsession with everything that I say on here. I find it kind of creepy, but, then again, I guess, it could be strangely flattering to know that you care so much my thoughts. So, um, thanks for your time and attention.
    Oh BTW, I’m so sorry your favored candidate lost tonight. I guess we’ll never get to see how he would have been such a better president. I suppose that’s all of our loss.

  304. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 2:38 am #

    Yes, I’m sure we’ll all really miss you and your insane persecution complex. What a huge loss for our nation.

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  305. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 2:44 am #

    “this sociopath President”
    Ok, wait. Let me get this straight.
    Mitt Romney basically calls 47% of Americans freeloaders and parasites, changes his mind on nearly every issue by shaking the Etch-a-sketch on a weekly basis, and lies about almost everything in his attempt to get elected, and, yet, his opponent is the sociopath?
    Seriously, what rock did you crawl out from under?

  306. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 2:48 am #

    I’ll para-phrase Churchill. It isn’t that democracy is so great, just that the other systems are so much worse.

  307. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 2:52 am #

    Otherwise, he might do something really crazy.
    Which could lead him to a life sentence in a maximum security prison. Vlad is not very smart if he chooses to do anything violent or anything crazy (anything more crazy than expressing his crazy racist views on CFN). The world has passed him by, he doesn’t recognize his own country, so now he relishes white racist minority victim-hood. Pathetic.
    Asoka is the future. Non-white, young, and female is the future. No more old white men in the Oval Office ever again!

  308. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 2:54 am #

    Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out. Good riddance.

  309. Radu Voda November 7, 2012 at 4:11 am #

    If I destroy the Earth, and no one else is left but me, then God will have to talk to speak. I will force his hand.

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  310. Radu Voda November 7, 2012 at 4:18 am #

    Yous talkin genocide there boy. And you think I’m bad and crazy? If I was God, I would destroy everyone equally except for Vlad and Eve. Each race could have their own Vlad and Eve on their own continent. You could pet a lion in Africa or lie down using him or her as a pillow. You’ll like it Vlad.

  311. Radu Voda November 7, 2012 at 4:46 am #

    He was a Zionist Shill who used poison gas on the Iraquis. I plan to mate you with a Yeti.

  312. insufferable November 7, 2012 at 6:36 am #

    Well the druggies, gays, an idiots have their man. We are fucked.

  313. Widespreadpanic7 November 7, 2012 at 7:16 am #

    Good to see you back here, Q. I thought Sandy might have got ya, but here you are with your grammatically correct, concise and surprisingly lengthy posts.
    Only half the electorate voted for Obama; the other half hates his guts. According to JHK and others who post here economic and social collapse in the USA, if not imminent, is on the near horizon. Republicans control Congress and have the majority of Governorships. You can almost name the disasters that are about to unfold inside the USA, the Middle East, and throughout the world. Like I said earlier, let The Messiah, The Chosen One, be at the helm when this ship goes down.

  314. ozone November 7, 2012 at 9:52 am #

    When you say “the electorate”, I’m sure you’re meaning “those who voted”. If we have the crunched numbers at some point in the future, we’ll probably find that the Prez was re-selected by less than a quarter of those “entitled to vote”.
    And so, we have pretty much the oberfuhrer and apparatchik setup that we’ve had for the past 4 years (status quo). It is my wish that this leads to even further gridlock than before. The less “these people” do, the better. That leaves EVENTS in control, rather than politicians’ agendas. It would be a case of what needs to be dealt with, rather than what grasping, blinkered assholes DESIRE. Will this lead to an awakening? Maybe for a few; that’s as far as my “hope” goes.
    Ps. Enjoying Q’s political commentary/snark quite a bit, m’self! If I had known that, I could have sent many a funny-but-true story of politicos [and the votin’ tools that luv ’em] his way. I certainly don’t find the shenanigans and chicanery of the political machine sacrosanct either.

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  315. ozone November 7, 2012 at 10:02 am #

    For the post-selection blues, we offer these few bon mots:
    “We stand today at a crossroads: One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other leads to total extinction. Let us hope we have the wisdom to make the right choice.” – Woody Allen
    Ha! I don’t particularly like Woody’s general whinery and eternal victimhood, but ya gotta admit, that one’s “the soul of wit”.

  316. Cavepainter November 7, 2012 at 11:18 am #

    Oh boy, now Obama can go forward with what is actually TERMS OF SURRENDER to the invasion, branded though as “immigration reform”.
    Obama has simply won for his party franchise on generations of what he has engineered to become the dominant voting block of the future.
    Underriding message: The US was too white and too European to be entitled to sovereignty as an independent nation with self determination through representational democracy. The pitch has been that the US required invasion to attain some mysterious standard of diversity.
    Shall we now threaten Japan with war for not being properly diverse in ethnicity or race? How about Switzerland, aren’t they white and European? Oh hell,……… there’s our excuse for invading Poland and the Sudetenland like an earlier megolomaniac with notions of proper racial/ethnic order.

  317. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 11:44 am #

    Nobody talkin’ genocide, boy. You white racists and white nationalists and white separatists are just dying out naturally, through acts of millions of Americans who love their country. You toast, boy.

    NEW YORK — President Barack Obama did not just win reelection tonight. His victory signaled the irreversible triumph of a new, 21st-century America: multiracial, multi-ethnic, global in outlook and moving beyond centuries of racial, sexual, marital and religious tradition.

    Obama, the mixed-race son of Hawaii by way of Kansas, Indonesia, Los Angeles, New York and Chicago, won reelection in good part because he not only embodied but spoke to that New America, as did the Democratic Party he leads. His victorious coalition spoke for and about him: a good share of the white vote (about 45 percent in Ohio, for example); 70 percent or so of the Latino vote across the country, according to experts; 96 percent of the African-American vote; and large proportions of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders.

    The Republican Party, by contrast, has been reduced to a rump parliament of Caucasian traditionalism: white, married, church-going — to oversimplify only slightly. “It’s a catastrophe,” said GOP strategist Steve Schmidt. “This is, this will have to be, the last time that the Republican Party tries to win this way.”

    The GOP chose as its standard-bearer Mitt Romney, whose own Mormon Church until recent decades discriminated officially against blacks. His campaign made little serious effort to reach out to Hispanics voters, and Romney hurt himself by taking far-right positions on immigration during the GOP primaries. He made no effort whatsoever in the black community.

  318. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 12:01 pm #

    Only half the electorate voted for Obama; the other half hates his guts.
    You keep up this hate, WSP7. This attitude of hate is what will guarantee Democratic victories far into the future.
    You are right only half the electorate voted for Obama; but many in the other half like Obama. They just voted for Romney due to policy positions. They weren’t voting against Obama, they were voting against Obama’s positions. They were voting for Romney, not against Obama. There is a difference… but I’m glad your hatred does not allow you to understand. Your hatred pits you against the Messiah… a bad bet.
    BTW, yesterday all four states with popular vote initiatives to support gay marriage passed, by vote of the people, not by legislative or judicial fiat.
    You out of touch, WSP7. You cannot win against the tide of history. But I suspect you know this.

  319. Widespreadpanic7 November 7, 2012 at 12:08 pm #

    You might br correct, Asoka. The Lib websites and CNBC are making this out to be some sort of Racial Conflict. Is that what’s happening?
    Two questions;
    1) Is another Nobel Peace Prize in the offing?
    2) When do I get my free cellphone?

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  320. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 12:21 pm #

    Cheer up, WSP7. The people defeated Billionaires last night. All the money they threw at the campaign could not buy the politicians they wanted to buy in Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin … strongholds of white voters.
    Rush Limbaugh is wrong. This is not a center-right country. Liberalism is the future of the USA, not right-wing anti-immigrant conservatism. You watch.

  321. Jam47 November 7, 2012 at 12:34 pm #

    Now that Obama is free to do what he REALLY wants to do, maybe he’ll tell Netanyahu to shut the hell up with all the war talk. The economies of America, Europe, and Canada are already tottering. A strong Iranian response to an American/Israeli attack will be just the thing to cause a collapse. And the Israelis won’t be too happy either–not with hundreds of missiles raining down on them from Iran and Lebanon.
    Some have said that Obama’s mano a mano with Netanyahu this past year was only a performance. Unlikely. We’re now set to find out what Obama’s intentions towards Israel REALLY are.

  322. JonathanSS November 7, 2012 at 12:35 pm #

    That was the exact response I would have written when I 1st laid eyes on this crybaby’s rant. One less over consuming, traffic clogging American.
    Let’s hear more from positive, proactive types, eg. trippticket.

  323. Kyooshtik November 7, 2012 at 12:45 pm #

    I just emailed the following to my brother in Florida:
    Well, thank God THAT’S over, right?
    If I saw one more ad from Bob Menendez (incumbent NJ Senator) or Linda McMahon (honcho of World Wrestling Entertainment [symbol WWE] who spent $100 million of her own money in a vain attempt to get elected) I would throw a sneaker through my TV screen.
    Now maybe we can have a month’s peace till the campaigning begins for the 2014 mid-terms.

  324. Kyooshtik November 7, 2012 at 1:11 pm #

    Wall St Gives Election Results the Raspberry,
    Dow Hits 300+ Air-Pocket by Lunchtime

    CNBC talking heads deny there is any connection between this morning’s downdraft and the Presidential, House and Senate election results. They say a comment overnight by ECB head Drahgi – that the European Central Bank’s new bond-buying program allows for unlimited interventions in sovereign debt markets – was the culprit. Market players are sceptical.

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  325. Radu Voda November 7, 2012 at 1:14 pm #

    Obama couldn’t even produce a valid SS number, yet the morons put him back in. Even if Romney had “played dirty” and focus on truths like this, he probably still would have lost. A new electorate has been created with all the Hispanic, Asian, and African immigrants. The Republicans have brought this on themselves by their support of these evil policies.

  326. Radu Voda November 7, 2012 at 1:18 pm #

    Obama represents the old school Globalists – CFR, United Nations, Bilderbergers, etc. They are tired of the Jews delaying World Goverment with their special pleading. Romney, as a Neo Con, would have been their boy.
    So that’s the consolation prize for sane Whites, perhaps no war for Israel this time. And yes, many American Jews are sane enough not to want this either. Thank you “brothers”.

  327. Cavepainter November 7, 2012 at 1:28 pm #

    Good one Asoka. Let’s see now though; after the US (no longer a sovereign nation but instead colony of global finance) has attained what to you is passable balance of diversity and pigment tonality, how do you think this new citizen plurality will react when its elected representatives subordinate its expressed interests and aspirations to that of foreign nationals? Say, foreign nationals who violate whatever immigration laws that have been crafted and enacted by those elected representatives of the time, oath bound to serve the will of that future electorate (however diverse)?
    Or, on the other hand, do you believe that citizenry of the future won’t recognize need for immigration laws to protect it from deluge from overpopulations elsewhere, threatening quality of life by overwhelming carry capacity both natural and social?

  328. Kyooshtik November 7, 2012 at 1:36 pm #


  329. Radu Voda November 7, 2012 at 1:48 pm #

    What about your beloved little mouse, Jill Stein? Aren’t you sad she lost?
    As Kipling said, the Black Man is half devil and half child.

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  330. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 1:50 pm #

    Do you really think the US has the right to use 25% of the energy and resources expended on the planet every year and then with a straight face tell other people that they can’t come here?
    There are far more basic energy and economic dynamics at work here than simple race politics.
    What people really want is a piece of the US energy pie, given that global energy usage and distribution is quite imbalanced. For people in many other countries, whether or not they have access to energy is a matter of life or death. We use it to power our computers and blenders and make sure every room in the house is a comfy 68 degrees.
    The reason that you don’t see a huge influx of whites is that by and large they live in countries with high energy usage and hence fairly well-off economies, even though some European countries are currently teetering on the edge. I’m thinking especially of Canada and Europe. Canada is actually the only country with a per capita energy usage that is higher than the US.
    So where are the immigrants coming from? They come from Mexico, a hot and low-energy availability state, aside from its supply of petrol. It doesn’t have the energy infrastructure we have here, especially power plants. And then there are the Asian immigrants, which actually overtook Latinos recently in numbers (I think?). Again, think of China, where per capita energy usage is still quite low.
    In my mind, there isn’t an organized campaign against white Americans. It just so happens that America is where all the action is because we have such a huge share of global resources at our disposal. It makes perfect sense in terms of human ecology that people would want to come here for this reason alone.

  331. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 1:56 pm #

    “Or, on the other hand, do you believe that citizenry of the future won’t recognize need for immigration laws to protect it from deluge from overpopulations elsewhere, threatening quality of life by overwhelming carry capacity both natural and social?”
    It is supremely naive to think that overpopulation is a problem that can be handled at the nation state level.
    Furthermore, what exactly, other than raw power politics, gives us the right to extract much greater than our fair share of resources, using far more per capita than almost every other country, and then tell other people on this planet that they are simply SOL?
    This situation is simply unfair and other people see right through it.

  332. JonathanSS November 7, 2012 at 2:02 pm #

    Thanks for your reasoned, pragmatic prose. I find your writing style intelligible.

  333. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 2:07 pm #

    And, it must be said, the wealth of America and other first world countries is built upon poverty, exploitation, and virtual slavery in other countries, not to mention outright looting when it suits us. The most obvious example of this recently is the offshoring of manufacturing to China, a low wage, totalitarian society. This is a perfect place for Apple to make and assemble its high margin consumer electronics. Many of the products these days in ye olde Wal-mart have a “Made in China” stamp on them or come from some other low-wage country. Then there is the pricing of oil in dollars, which allows the US to buy precious energy resources using, essentially, useless paper that may never be redeemed. Then, as outlined in books like the excellent Disaster Capitalism by Naomi Klein, there are consistent and pernicious financial schemes to loot the economic wealth of other country’s by Western elites. This is all really just the tip of the iceberg.
    And the game is up. Other people are figuring out what’s going on. And the price they demand? They want their people to be let in to America in order to get a piece of the action. Is it a fair trade? I don’t know. But to act like America is the one being exploited here just beggar belief in terms of how naive it is when looking at the overall picture.

  334. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 2:12 pm #

    Are you that dense? Whoever said this?
    A disaster declaration is a bureacratic mechanism that unlocks government resources at the federal level. The timeliness of this can be important in getting immediate aid to effected areas. That’s all. And Christie, a die hard Republican, thought Obama did an excellent job here in cutting through the red tape so that New Jersey could start getting the help it needed. What is so hard to understand about it?

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  335. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 2:14 pm #

    “They wrote about God, discussed him in legislative sessions and prayed for his guidance while the senate and congress were in session.”
    Yet, there is nary a mention of higher powers in the US Constitution. You’d think that if it was so important, they would have included the big guy in their overall governmental scheme.

  336. Kyooshtik November 7, 2012 at 2:15 pm #

    to extract much greater than our fair share of resources
    What exactly do you perceive as our fair share? An equal number of BTUs for every man, woman and child on the planet?

  337. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 2:33 pm #

    Q, I’m going to flip that right back at you.
    Do you think that “as much as we can take” is an acceptable answer to this question? The rest of the world which doesn’t have access to the same level of energy resources is starting to think not, and I don’t blame them.
    I know you don’t believe in anything like equitable distribution of, well, anything, I guess. But then you shouldn’t be surprised by the blowback caused by our exploitative behavior.
    The Arab Spring, for instance, was not solely about politics. There are energy dynamics at work here, much of it having to do with how the rest of the world extracts resources from that region in order to power their high energy usage economies, and yet many people there still live on the edge. There is an overarching infrastructure in place that makes sure most people in these places remain poor and “low energy” so that the rest of the world can suck out as much oil as possible at the cheapest possible cost.
    That is currently one of the big worries in the international oil scene, that the people in oil producing nations start to consume more of their domestic supply, leaving less for export.
    But isn’t this just amazingly arrogant of us, to assume that the people in a country sitting on the oil shouldn’t be able to use it as they see fit? We certainly did with our own oil supply as we saw fit, all the way from the middle 1800’s. What gives us the right to essentially dictate to other countries that their oil belongs to us? The pricing of oil in dollars guanrantees our leverage there.
    I certainly don’t have all the answers, and I don’t claim this. I am especially not fond of thinking that I have any easy answers to these problems. I am more of an observer. And what I observe is a situation that is imbalanced and, from any perspective, lopsided towards countries that use immense amounts of global resources to power their economies, simply because they can.
    The real question is, how much longer can this continue? How much longer do you think the people on the bottom are going to put up with this situation before things simply explode?

  338. Radu Voda November 7, 2012 at 2:39 pm #

    We have to retreat to the selected areas to concentrate our forces for the struggle to come. Trying to back the whole United States, chock full of enemies, is a hopeless task. The Northwest and Southern Appalachia are the leading choices.

  339. Radu Voda November 7, 2012 at 2:49 pm #

    People like you are thrilled that Whites are in trouble. And you are organized – yet there is no Conspiracy? So why do the Nations of Europe with double digit unemployment still allow Non Whites to pour in? There is no economic reason for it. Less clear, the same thing here – except to save the Employers money on wages for them. If we were sane, we would have stopped the flow decades ago. But there is an Agenda augmented by a pop ideology of Whites being Evil that the Elite have created. You totally subscribe to that whether you are willing to admit it or not.
    And the other side of the equation: Goverment loves immigrants because they are so needy – it increases their power. Hint – that’s not a valid reason to let them in. That’s also greed and putting personal needs ahead of the needs of the country.
    Your explanation explains why the immigrants want to come here. You don’t explain at all why we let them in. I just did.

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  340. Cavepainter November 7, 2012 at 2:51 pm #

    So,……your argument is that intemperate consumption of the US entitles foreign nationals to disregard its sovereignty. Implicit in your position is accusation that the US citizenry has, with full knowledge and deliberate intent, depredated the globe’s other nations and populations. No accounting do you make to other cultures and societies’ dispositions; particularly that aligned to attitudes and beliefs predating the 300 years since the Enlightenment swept Europe. Therefore, the US citizenry is the scourge of all the world’s problems. Not, emphatically, being victim itself to having had its government and military pirated to trans-national corporate global ambitions (that citizenry, by-the-way, paying the price in taxes and blood in exchange for soft-soap falsification of purposes serve).
    Not with standing idealistic fantasies for reallocating resources (or readjustments aimed at compensating perceived past unequal distribution) this whole argument is beyond the fact that nature is now in process of forcing its hand. That hand is about to sweep aside a good portion of human population simply because it is too great to be sustained no matter if all agreed to get by on only minimum caloric requirement through feeding tube. Survival at all will be spotty, and only where population/resource ratio is balanced.
    Essentially, mom nature doesn’t give a shit about anyone’s moral polemics for reverse engineering past mistakes. If the US is to survive with any level of life quality recognized in its past we had better stabilize population now, and that certainly means moratorium on immigration and returning to a sovereign choice away from the looming catastrophe already baked into the cake for much of the world’s human population.
    You have a religious like faith in an idealistic notion which, like all religious myths, acts as a soothing bromide against harsh reality.

  341. Radu Voda November 7, 2012 at 3:06 pm #

    Follow me and live. Ignore me and you are doomed.

  342. Goat1080 November 7, 2012 at 3:17 pm #

    Obama won!!! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray!
    Ok, now to the big issue at hand:
    Time to tackle the fiscal cliff – Obama, time to get some ‘fiscal exercise’ and get this Congress working on this issue before…um, it’s too late.
    I know you are up to the task!!!

  343. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 3:17 pm #

    Essentially, mom nature doesn’t give a shit about anyone’s moral polemics for reverse engineering past mistakes. If the US is to survive with any level of life quality recognized in its past we had better stabilize population now…

    This argument is not supported by facts. The USA has a very low population density (we are 142nd least dense out of 192 countries).
    Countries with a much higher quality of life (and higher per capita GDP) also have a higher population density. More people per square mile does not equal worse living conditions.
    The USA can grow to 700 million or 900 million easily (we won’t be there for many decades). Even at 900 million we would still have a lower population density and a higher standard of living than most of the world.
    We can still have a good quality of life and allow in all the foreign nationals you don’t want to allow in.
    I’m not in favor of reducing national immigration. National immigration does not increase or decrease global population.
    I am in favor of reducing GLOBAL population levels through voluntary, humane means.
    Elizabeth Warren for President 2016

  344. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 3:24 pm #

    Hey! Are you the Messiah now?
    You stealin’ Jesus’ schtick.

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  345. anti soak November 7, 2012 at 3:30 pm #

    ‘Do you really think the US has the right to use 25% of the energy and resources expended on the planet every year and then with a straight face tell other people that they can’t come here?’
    I wont answer yr question but I wonder, Do you own a car?
    Fly often?
    Eat beef?
    Then with a straight face you tell me what I can say or think or do?
    I agree with what XXX once posted about you.

  346. anti soak November 7, 2012 at 3:31 pm #


    The next 4 years will tell.

  347. anti soak November 7, 2012 at 3:33 pm #

    So where are the immigrants coming from?
    Over 100 countries, including those on the ‘terror’ list.
    A fellow form the UK says there are 6 countries banned from the green card lottery, UK being one of them.

  348. anti soak November 7, 2012 at 3:34 pm #

    The first image removed from the WH by BHO was that of ‘the colonist’ Winny.

  349. anti soak November 7, 2012 at 3:36 pm #

    Tripp headed for the hills.
    By his own honest admission, Macon was too black for him.
    crime and pitbulls.

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  350. anti soak November 7, 2012 at 3:39 pm #

    When do I get my free cellphone?
    as you exit the polls and don an obama shirt.

  351. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 3:39 pm #

    Elizabeth Warren 2016
    Elizabeth Warren 2016

  352. Kyooshtik November 7, 2012 at 3:43 pm #

    When I see the words fair share it really sets my teeth on edge. The concept is a favorite of socialists…the idea of equality in all things. But it is an illusion that will never become a reality.
    When and where since the Big Bang have all individuals received their fair share? It doesn’t happen among nations, tribes nor even within families. My m-i-l of whom I have written frequently lately (one of 9 children) says back in the ’20s the boys who had jobs doing physical labor got the best parts of the roast chicken while the girls got the scrawny wings. She and her sister would whisper “when we grow up we’re going to have a whole chicken for ourselves.”
    Sharing fairly doesn’t exist even in the animal world. Try gorging on a kill before the leader of the pack. And why is there such a thing as “the runt of the litter.” The poor little bastard is left sucking hind tit because he is weaker. The stronger baby bird(s) in a nest will shove the weakest one out to crash and die on the ground so when Mom and Dad show up with the worms the strong will get a bigger “share.” There is simply no FAIR about it. Horrified as you are with the concept, “might makes right.”
    Now YOU, with your highly developed sense of empathy for your fellow man, are certain and insistent that humans are DIFFERENT. But everything you observe around you tells you we are NOT different; equal sharing of resources has not and does not exist, otherwise you would not be raising a fair share issue.
    Now, here we are in 2012 having stolen the land from the native populations (fair and square, as Vlad would say) and you are empathising with those who want to come in and take it back or, at a minimum, join the party. Should we allow them to? That is the question.
    The fact that we Americans are gluttonously and ruinously over-using the earth’s resources is really a different issue than fair share.

  353. anti soak November 7, 2012 at 3:50 pm #

    Once upon a time I read a book about wolves being reintroduced to Yellowstone.
    The 12 or so Canadian wolves were still penned.
    There was an ‘alpha bitch’ unchallenged in the pack.
    She was pregnant. Humans put road kill [a moose?]
    in the pen. Alpha didnt share with bitch 2.
    Bitch 2 went at her and in an instant killed her.
    So much for ‘being fair’.
    To the victor went the moose.
    [The fact that we Americans are gluttonously and ruinously over-using the earth’s resources…..
    and others arent?……. Chindia has 3 Billion].

  354. Kyooshtik November 7, 2012 at 4:14 pm #

    Elizabeth Warren 2016
    In less than 24 hours Asoka has thrown Jill Stein under the bus. What a guy. A man of no fidelity, he is large…

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  355. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 4:18 pm #

    OK, let’s say you are right and “fair share” for all is an impossibility. We still could impose maximum consumption limits and let people choose how much they want to consume up to that maximum. Kind of like you decide how much you give to charity and how much of that you want to take as a tax deduction.
    USA consumption right now is out of proportion to the world’s consumption. We need to downsize, reduce our energy footprint, and come more into line with the rest of the world. Maybe impose a “consumption tax” so you can own as much as you want, but you’ll pay dearly (how many cars, houses, boats, etc. does one need?).
    The alternative is unpleasant blowback if we continue to consume more than our “fair share.”
    The United States, with less than 5 % of the global population, uses about a quarter of the world’s fossil fuel resources—burning up nearly 25 % of the coal, 26 % of the oil, and 27 % of the world’s natural gas.
    As of 2003, the U.S. had more private cars than licensed drivers, and gas-guzzling sport utility vehicles were among the best-selling vehicles.
    New houses in the U.S. were 38 % bigger in 2002 than in 1975, despite having fewer people per household on average.
    These are trends we need to voluntarily reverse.
    As far as might makes right, Socrates answered that: Unjust behavior is ultimately self destructive while just behavior builds one up. Acting unjustly may bring temporary power, wealth, or fame, but it does so at the cost of relationships and inner peace. Justice and love are at the heart of wise decision making that will help one get the most out of life. Not only does injustice have negative consequences that outweigh material benefits, justice is rewarding in terms of peace and happiness.

  356. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 4:24 pm #

    24 hours ago, Elizabeth Warren was not a United States Senator, and therefore was not positioned to become president.
    Senator Warren has a real chance of actually becoming president. Jill Stein has demonstrated she doesn’t have the same chance. Asoka is becoming practical in his old age.

  357. beantown bill November 7, 2012 at 4:24 pm #

    By my back-of-the envelope calculations – subject to change as more complete results come in – 37% of the US population cast a vote, and Obama won by getting the vote of 19% of the total population. Although he clearly won the election, getting 19% of all the people is hardly a mandate for continuation of his policies. However, keep in mind that this percentage is pretty typical of past presidential election results.

  358. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 4:26 pm #

    This is really an amazing viewpoint, this Social Darwinism promulgated by comfortable retirees sitting high on the hog in the US.
    So are you basically saying that if OPEC and other oil-producing nations decided to cut America off from its supply, with disastrous consequences, that this would be okay? You’d accept that, right?
    In other words, you’d presumably be okay if someone else used their might to deprive us of our resources. Does it cut both ways? Or are we the only ones allowed to deploy force in order to secure and seize energy resources, due to our exceptionalism?
    Fact of the matter is that you feel entitled to these resources, and speak as if the people who don’t have access, for whatever reason, are interlopers and vagrants.
    Well, I’m here to tell you that, whatever your views on equitable distribution, those who aren’t “at the party” want at least a seat at the table, if not a helping as large as an American’s.

  359. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 4:35 pm #

    What I’m reading here is that you are content to let the US government/military and corporations apply force on your behalf, in order that you and yours get the resources that you deem necessary. I recognize that the real underlying dynamics of energy politics, even economics, are driven by these kinds of policies. The problem is that much of the rest of the world sees it as massively unfair. And this simply can’t be swept under the rug. It is a problem that rich countries are heavily dependent on importing their energy resources from places on the globe where people are poor and, in some cases, starving or at least struggling to get by. What these people perceive, say in country’s like Nigeria, is a massive forcible extraction of their resources to feed our lifestyles. And they ask, why should we not get a bigger piece of that pie, given that it is within our borders? Or they might even ask, why can’t they at least have enough of a share so that they can meet their most basic needs and not struggle to survive on a daily basis? Instead, their carbon resources are extracted to power the US’s energy intensive (and often optional) lifestyle.
    What is your answer to them, Q? Are you simply going to tell them, tough luck, you’re the runt of the litter? Might makes right, and we’ve got the might so eat it.
    I’m sorry but people, rightly so, do not accept that kind of answer. You think that we can play the bully forever and run roughshod over other people forever and not eventually reap the whirlwind? I don’t think so.

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  360. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 4:41 pm #

    “otherwise you would not be raising a fair share issue”
    Do I believe everyone deserves a fair share? I really don’t know. My point was that this is the perception throughout much of the world, that we exploit countries’ and their people for what we need and leave them energy poor, while their exports feed our demand. You are apparently okay with this. They are not, and that matters. This was really my only point. I’m not being prescriptive. I don’t think this whole situation can or will be be worked out in an orgznied way, as the stakes for all the players, especially those on the top, are too high. We like the current situation and are likely to want to stick with it, while they are not. In other words, if the balance tips more in favor of domestic consumption of their own resources in these countrues, the rich nations who are benefiting from still relatively cheap energy exports will lose out, big time. Hence, we have a vested interest in continuing the status quo.

  361. xport November 7, 2012 at 4:45 pm #

    So now the election is over and we have an count of how many ass holes are in this country.
    The grand total is 57,544,983 that voted for a guy that had no plan and no clue. This scares the shit out of me, as I have to live near these imbeciles.

  362. ront November 7, 2012 at 4:47 pm #

    Here is Romney’s concession song.
    I suspect the video’s concept is truer than even the talented creators may think.

  363. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 4:47 pm #

    “equality in all things”
    No, I am not a proponent of equality in all things, and I think this is an impossibility. But there is a certain balance to strike between the top and bottom of the scale. Those at the bottom simply want some basic needs to be met and to have at least a modicum of fairness in the system, so that the share taken by the top is not outsized and excessive. I never said that every country/person has to be exactly equal.
    Why is this such an outrageous demand? Many of these countries’ people simply want better access to their own domestic resources. Who do you think you are to deny them this? You think we can continue to exchange our funny money for these crucial resources indefinitely? I don’t. I’m merely being the messenger here. The situation will change, whether you or I like it or not.

  364. beantown bill November 7, 2012 at 4:49 pm #

    I agree with Asoka we should cut down on our energy consumption, but not for the reason he states. It’s not true our out-of-proportion energy consumption is unfair. Who decides what IS fair? Who has the right to decide that?
    Much of the responsibility for disproportionate energy consumption belongs to the rulers of resource-rich nations. It’s no coincidence that the rulers of countries in the middle east, Russia, and Africa which have much of the world’s energy resources are ruthless dictators.
    They accept the money thrown at them by the US, and keep it for themselves in order to remain in power. Their own citizens don’t get much benefits. In a just world, those citizens would have the say as to how their resources, if any, are sold. We shouldn’t feel guilty about trying to extend our way of life. That that way of life is stupid is another issue.
    The fact is, the world has enabled us to continue to be greedy, energy-sucking pigs. As far as America goes, our refusal to see where our greediness is taking us will come back at us big-time. Our energy (in the sense of effort) ought to be about real conservation, and not to continue idealistic whining about how bad we are.

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  365. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 5:02 pm #

    Interesting that you talk about these dictators. In the Arab Spring, many of them were taken to task for this, i.e. impoverishing their own people in service to foreign governments. And down they went. This is the trend, actually, as people become more aware of what is actually going on in their own countries.
    Also, it is ludicrous to place the “blame” on the foreign rulers themselves. They are pawns, not kings or queens. We are the ones, by and large, who selected and co-opted them. We support their militaries and sell or give them weapons. They are generally our proxies. When they don’t do as their told, they are overthrown and replaced. All you need to do is look at the Iraq War. There was a ruler, bad as he was, who wasn’t going to simply do what he was told when it came to petroleum supply. He had his own ideas. And so, he was forcibly removed, killed, and replaced with a pliant, subservient US-created replacement.
    The basic problem here is that many people in the US don’t think there IS any problem. You know what I mean? This is all relatively invisible to them, sitting on the soft watching cable. What you might see as some kind of whining is simply an exposition of the real situation. Because most people in the US are simply blind to it.

  366. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 5:04 pm #

    Sitting on the sofa rather.

  367. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 5:07 pm #

    Any suggestion of a negative market reaction to Obama is more spin from FAUX NEWS.
    If you look at the futures, they went up 50 points when Obama was elected. They only went down later in response to Europe … nothing to do with Obama.

  368. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 5:20 pm #

    The rules are announced in advance. Anybody who wants to can participate. All you have to do is show up and vote.
    If only 19% show up for Obama, and less than 19% show up for others, then Obama wins.
    It would not matter if Obama won with 1% of voters showing up, as long as less than 1% showed up for the other candidates. With just that 1% Obama would have a mandate.
    With the newly elected Tammy Baldwin and Elizabeth Warren joining the reelected Sherrod Brown and Sheldon Whitehouse in the Senate, Obama should have a more unified and incrementally more liberal congressional party behind him. Their elections added to Obama’s mandate.
    Citing how few voted is really irrelevant. Voting is not legally obligated. That is the way the rules have been set up. Participation is voluntary. No minimum number of voters is required. The mandate goes to the one who gets the most electoral votes, although Obama also got the most popular votes… and a majority in the Senate.

  369. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 5:25 pm #

    Why are some people so concerned about whether or not a certain election result constitutes a mandate or not?
    This reminds me of the silly, pointless, contrived debates as to whether or not some act constitutes terrorism or if a certain person is a terrorist. It is a discussion of mostly meaningless pedantics for political purposes, usually with some kind of hidden agenda behind it.
    And, asoka is right. It doesn’t matter. There’s no way to tell if people are giving some mandate or not with their vote if they don’t even show up in the first place.

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  370. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 5:49 pm #

    an authorization to act given to a representative

    According the the dictionary definition, if only 10 people showed up to vote yesterday, and six of them voted for Obama, legally Obama would have a mandate.

  371. Radu Voda November 7, 2012 at 5:53 pm #

    The boys deserved more because they were doing harder physical work and were bigger in any case.
    We aren’t complete animals, Q, but we do have an animal aspect. Society is kept together by these higher considerations. But other societies fall prey to our animal ones. We could try and change and extend our humanity to others – as long as they are doing the same to us. Asoka and Turk are for unilateral disarmament so we can be destroyed.

  372. anti soak November 7, 2012 at 5:57 pm #

    Whats the total number of US citizen, non felon,
    adults in USA?
    200? million. How many are registered?

  373. Buck Stud November 7, 2012 at 6:07 pm #

    Cheer up Vlad – being the minority ain’t such a bad thing. In fact, it can be downright flattering. ( I would go into detail about being eye-fucked by several married Latina women the other but I probably shouldn’t brag.)

  374. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 6:10 pm #

    Middle class/Taxes
    Return to Clinton-era tax rates for families earning above $250,000.
    Give middle-class families and folks trying to get into the middle class some relief.
    98 percent of families will not see a tax increase.
    Job creation/Business/Manufacturing
    Close loopholes that allow companies to deduct expenses when they export jobs.
    Tax breaks for companies that are investing in the United States.
    97 percent of small businesses will not see a tax increase.
    Reduce corporate tax rate to 25 percent, while eliminating many deductions.
    Create a million new manufacturing jobs in the next four years.
    Help big factories and small businesses double their exports.
    Invest in advanced manufacturing.
    By the middle of the next decade, cars and trucks will go twice as far on a gallon of gas.
    Open more land for oil-and-gas exploration.
    Cut oil imports in half by 2020.
    Develop new sources of energy in America.
    Reduce carbon pollution.
    Hire 100,000 new math and science teachers.
    Create 2 million more slots in our community colleges so people can get job training.
    Cut tuition increases in half over 10 years.
    Health care
    When Obamacare is fully implemented, costs will go down.
    Lower Medicare health care costs.
    Improve benefits, cut payments to hospitals and other providers by $700 billion.
    Put U.S. on path to cut deficits by $4 trillion over 10 years.
    Pass comprehensive immigration reform.
    Give young people a path to citizenship.
    Foreign policy
    Transition out of Afghanistan by end of 2014.
    Iran will not get a nuclear weapon.
    Gun control
    Keep guns out of the hands of criminals and those who are mentally ill.
    Increase enforcement of current laws.
    Reintroduce assault weapons ban.

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  375. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 6:20 pm #

    Here is one way we can reduce our energy consumption. What we put into our mouths is 100% under our control. Needs no mandate! Here is a film that describes why.
    Part sociological experiment and part adventure comedy, Vegucated follows three meat- and cheese-loving New Yorkers who agree to adopt a vegan diet for six weeks. Lured by tales of weight lost and health regained, they begin to uncover the hidden sides of animal agriculture that make them wonder whether solutions offered in films like Food, Inc. go far enough. This entertaining documentary showcases the rapid and at times comedic evolution of three people who discover they can change the world one bite at a time.

  376. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 6:40 pm #

    “Today, in Ohio, in the middle of America, the middle class won again” — Sherrod Brown
    But, according to XXX5, the middle class has disappeared. Sherrod Brown was reelected by the middle class in Ohio.
    About the Jeep operation in Toledo expanding – the plant that Mitt Romney falsely said was moving to China—and about the Chevy Cruze now being built at the rejuvenated GM plant near Youngstown:
    The engine block is made in … Defiance.
    The aluminum wheels are made in … Cleveland.
    The transmission’s from … Toledo.
    It’s all assembled in … Lordstown.

    Yet, according to XXX5, manufacturing is dead in the USA and we have the worst economy in USA history.
    Oh, and it’s crunch time (for over a year now!) and money is slow. LOL!

  377. beantown bill November 7, 2012 at 6:57 pm #

    The middle east is a mess. If the rulers there are our pawns, then we are playing a horrible game of chess. Iran has some of the world’s largest proven oil reserves. I would hardly think the Islamic government is our pawn. You think Hugo Chavez of Venezuala (another country with large oil reserves) is our pawn, too?
    Or Vladimir Putin of Russia?
    I agree with you about US citizens being blind to our over-consumption problems.
    When I mentioned whining, I meant the CFNers who complain it’s not fair for us to use so much energy.

  378. beantown bill November 7, 2012 at 7:13 pm #

    Asoka, I’m not talking about a legal mandate, but a mandate in the sense that Obama got support from the majority, or near majority of the population. Yes, technically Obama got a legal mandate, but as far as the whole US population is concerned, 4 out of 5 people didn’t make a decision to give him a second term. Taking this to an extreme, if only 2 people voted and they both voted for Obama, one could say that since Obama got 100% of the votes, look how incredibly popular he is.
    My intention in my post was not to castigate Obama, but to show how crazy the current political process is.
    BTW, as I told Procon, I did not vote – but that was for the president. I actually voted for only one person out of all the campaigns – Elizabeth Warren. I got a vibe that she’s a capable, reasonable, bright, nice person. Time will tell if I’m right.

  379. asoka.. November 7, 2012 at 7:20 pm #

    Thanks for voting for Senator Warren.
    She seems to have a fearless, direct style and a genuine concern for ordinary folks. This will be a test of the maxim about power corrupting. I hope she is able to resist.

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  380. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 7:24 pm #

    I admit that I oversimplified. You’d have to look at each country individually.
    Saudi Arabia is a US client state or at least we support them heavily, though sometimes its hard to tell who is wagging the dog. Initially, the US was instrumentation in establishing the Sauds as rulers of their current territory. We supply them with billions of dollars every year in military hardware and support their regime. The Bushes had, uh, intimate relations with them. (See the excellent book, House of Bush, House of Saud)
    Iraq is previously covered and obvious. It is a US puppet state.
    Egypt used to be an strong ally, under the US thumb, before the Arab Spring. Now it is hard to say.
    Kuwait is basically a US state, or, rather, a military base.
    Qatar is another US client with a big military base there.
    Iran is independent, but, of course, they’re part of the Axis of Evil, remember? Many a neo-con fantasizes about war with that country. And, if you’ll remember, Iran used to be a US client state right up until 1980, under the Shah, who was installed in a US-backed coup. Then the Iranian Revolution happened. That’s blowback for ya.
    Afghanistan, at the edge of the ME map, is run by a coalition of rich countries wanting to control its resources and access to them. There’s been a few major pipelines proposed through that area. So, there again, we meddle.
    Pakistan and its ISI, e.g. the central government, have been heavily supported by the US CIA over the years, though now the tribal regions assert independence against that government, and we are in a proxy war with them.
    Libya is the newest territory where we supported toppling the current rulership, because he was antagonistic to our interests. Though I wouldn’t say we were necessarily aligned against the people’s wishes there. Quite the opposite actually. Of course, the multi-national oil companies are eager to get in on the action there, but let’s not look at the man behind the curtain. It was all about freedom, I’m sure.
    Jordan is a US ally.
    Syria is another country where we don’t support the current regime and are supplying the opposition.
    UAE is another US client state, or at least they have agreements establishing military bases there.
    Now, of course, people and countries do act independently and chafe under our rule. There is blowback. There is conflict. Not everyone dances to our tune. But we certainly make them try.
    Across the ME is a string of US bases protecting our intersts there, in many of the countries I mentioned above. So I think my initial analysis is not that far off. And the people there know it, too, which is why they have been so restless with us lately.
    “You think Hugo Chavez of Venezuala (another country with large oil reserves) is our pawn, too?”
    No, definitely not. Again, though, look at how our press demonizes him.
    “Or Vladimir Putin of Russia?”
    Again, nope. He’s more of an independent actor.
    Sorry about the initial broad brush there. Had to get out the smaller one and make some finer brushstrokes. I hope it is more clear now.

  381. beantown bill November 7, 2012 at 7:29 pm #

    Asoka, most of what you listed that Obama plans on accomplishing, in theory, I agree with, but with some exceptions.
    I don’t want to see oil rigs all over Yellowstone and Yosemite Parks. I don’t want any more land subjected to environmental ruin. Besides, the more extra oil we get, the less the motivation to develop new technologies.
    I believe health care is mathematically impossible to fix with the present system, as are many other social issues that we presently throw money at. I’m sorry about that because I’d like to help everyone that needed it, but I’m afraid it’s impossible. In the future, we’re going to have to pick and choose those we help.
    I especially liked the home manufacturing incentives – and disincentives for investing overseas.

  382. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 7:31 pm #

    “When I mentioned whining, I meant the CFNers who complain it’s not fair for us to use so much energy.”
    Okay, strike the word fair from the dialog if you don’t think it is appropriate. I initially said something like fair share, but it wasn’t really that in some absolute, objective sense. And I don’t think I really meant it.
    It is the perception of people on the bottom that those at the top, say the OECD countries, consume far more than them in terms of energy resources, both per capita and per country, and they are absolutely right about this. So they resent it, and as they are squeezed more and more, can only take so much before they push back. That was my point.
    The nation of Nigeria, for instance, has massive domestic oil reserves, but most of it is exported. There are huge pockets of poverty there, which you or I can barely imagine. The multi-nationals ruin the environment and are not held accountable.
    In other words, there are consequences to what we do in order to obtain the energy supplies we need and by we I don’t just mean America, I’m speaking about the entire developed/rich world.
    You’re right. There is no real objective existence of fairness. This concept mostly lives in people’s perceptions. But, that perception matters, especially when the situation is so skewed as it is now.
    Makes more sense now?

  383. turkleton November 7, 2012 at 7:32 pm #

    Why is healthcare mathematically impossible to fix? Many other countries have better healthcare than we do, in terms of number of people covered AND outcomes, and they spend far less of their GDP on it. Are they capable of something that we are not? Or do you just mean that the current system is unreformable and needs replacement?

  384. Cavepainter November 7, 2012 at 8:05 pm #

    Hoo boy, doctrinal idealism of whatever branch is here shown to be as dismissive of reality as that imposed by all doctrinal religions.
    OK Asoka, you believe that the populations of the world will all align uniformly like metal particles to magnetic north just on basis of rhapsodic phrases urging human harmony.
    C’mon, even on the most anecdotal evidence it is obvious that humans have innate need to fragment into segregate groups – and most notoriously along fissure lines absolutely idiosyncratic rather than practical in terms of accommodating objective reality.
    Sorry to have to press you on this, but it was the European Enlightenment {yeah, as “white” as it was} – with its insistence that no opinion or position be exempt from critical analysis – that force fit Western Society into framing government along lines of scientific process rather than on fanciful myths and beliefs otherwise unsupported by demonstrable fact.
    It’s not perfect, but it does represent the apex of what humans have achieved to this point toward establishing objective basis for equitable, stable society.
    This experimental model has been attempted all over the world with varying results. Note, I’m not speaking of attempts by nations’ to adopt America’s culture of consumerism, but, rather, attempts at Western forms of constitutional government having either parliamentarian or congressional ruling bodies of elected officials.
    I plead with you; consider all the regions of the world where this model has been attempted but failed due to civil war among the disparate internal groups fighting over control of resources, with lines of division drawn along differences in ancient beliefs (no, not skin color), none of which can comport with objective 21st Century grasp of reality.
    As anti-American as you seem to be, your idealism seems (peculiarly) well ensconced in American exceptionalism. Yes, that same notion that has left us, as a people, so insular and complacent such as to have our foreign policies hijacked by special interest, hence leaving us the whipping boy of the likes of you.
    To that point, you idealize our nation to be able to absorb unlimited immigrant population no matter from where and no matter what beliefs they bear; to then magically amalgamate into a unitary of purpose – no frictions of race, color, religion etc., etc. And,….no matter how thin the resources become spread.

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  385. rippedthunder November 7, 2012 at 8:33 pm #

    Yea, just what we need. Another useless Harvard Law School stumblebum. She never had a real job and has not a clue as to how the common man lives. Lizzie Warren in 2016!! HELPPPPPPPP!!!!!Lizzie Warren took an ax and gave her Mother forty whacks!!!

  386. beantown bill November 7, 2012 at 8:54 pm #

    I mean the latter. For the past 30 years the cost of health care has risen 9% annually. Project that out another 30 years, and the cost of such health care will rise to $16 trillion annually, or equal to 100% of today’s GDP. Using such historical data, it will be impossible to continue this very much further unless we either make massive cuts in other programs – really massive – or drastically reduce health care benefits.
    Medicare will probably have to go eventually. I hate this because my wife and I are on Medicare. Our health insurance costs – and not with the best coverage -just before Medicarecost us $19,000 per year; under Medicare we’re now paying around $6,000 per year. That’s quite a savings. But it’s unreasonable to expect today’s younger generations to continue paying more and more to keep old geezers like myself and my wife alive.
    Other countries DO have better and cheaper health care than us, but actions have consequences. America may have its financial issues, but most of the socialized medicine countries, primarily in Europe, are now financially terminal. Even Canada is about to experience a housing bubble, and then.. Sound like any country we know?
    The bottom line, the reality, is for many reasons, despite what some CFNers think, that governments cannot spend more than they take in without eventually paying the piper. I can hear the music playing in the distance.
    Even raising taxes to 100% of income for the wealthy would not produce enough federal revenue to pay for future health care expenses.

  387. Pucker November 7, 2012 at 9:12 pm #

    How is it that people lose their common sense?
    Is it because of ideology? Self interest?
    Bureaucratism? Money? Power?

  388. Buck Stud November 7, 2012 at 9:53 pm #

    Regarding a mandate, the GOP would never concede a that point, if if they were routed by ten touchdowns. So President Obama need not play namby pamby with the GOP, but dictate and dominate as the venerable Al Davis used to say. In fact, I would rather welcome the spirit of the below clip when it comes to dealing with the GOP, but I don’t think that’s in President Obama’s nature:

  389. Buck Stud November 7, 2012 at 9:54 pm #

    LOL …^ wrong clip!

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  390. Pucker November 7, 2012 at 10:02 pm #

    As JHK once observed: Societies do go nuts.
    Are we ready to pronounce the U.S. “NUTS”?

  391. Bill Simpson November 7, 2012 at 10:33 pm #

    Want to read how Mitt got so rich and how he and his fellow venture capitalists might just destroy capitalism as a result of their creation of useless, unproductive debt to get rich?
    Read ‘Greed and Debt: The true story of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital’ by Matt Taibbi in Rolling Stone. SCARY, even if you black out Romney’s name.

  392. progress4spam November 7, 2012 at 10:48 pm #

    “So who did you cast your meaningless vote for?”
    As I have stated several times, the only third party pres. candidate on the ballot in Georgia was Gary Johnson.
    And I don’t consider the vote meaningless. I now have esoteric bragging rights among my many friends and relatives who backed Mittens the Loser.
    A third party and a change to two party dominance is a last lingering hope for the US.
    This links to an interesting article.
    Comments are intriguing, too.
    WHY is Johnson only NOW getting attention???

  393. progress4spam November 7, 2012 at 10:56 pm #

    “BTW, as I told Procon, I did not vote – but that was for the president.” -btb-
    Bill, if you’re going to log a protest, then log the goddam’ thing on paper somewhere. That’s what I did with Gary Johnson. Will it matter?
    Probably not, but at least I left a visible mark.
    And look at this quote:
    “Low voter opinion of both major candidates, as shown in polls, was evident in the unusually heavy vote for Libertarian Jonathan Dine, who was winning roughly triple the vote that a different Libertarian candidate won in the election for the seat in 2006.”
    One more question for you, Bill.
    Why not just WRITE IN one of the following?
    “No One.”
    “None of the Above.”
    On your next presidential ballot??
    Start a trend, man.
    Maybe it will catch on.

  394. Voight-Kampff November 7, 2012 at 11:04 pm #

    Re MJ:
    I’m not a very eloquent writer, so I was hoping someone else would address it, but I see none.
    A couple of states (CO, WA) just legalized the possession of a small amount of a previously “illegal plant.” I was hoping to see articles in the MSM to the tune of “finally,” “stop incarcerating the non-violent,” etc., but no.
    What I see is http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/08/us-usa-mariXXXjuana-votes-idUSBRE8A705E20121108 MariXXXjuana legalization victories could be short-lived
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/legal-battle-looms-over-mariXXXjuana-initiatives/2012/11/07/cce5033e-28f5-11e2-bab2-eda299503684_story.html MariXXXjuana approval leaves states scrambling for answers
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/08/us/politics/mariXXXjuana-laws-eased-in-colorado-and-washington.html?_r=0 Voters Ease MariXXXjuana Laws in 2 States, but Legal Questions Remain
    What gives? Are the media our guidance or should they just report what’s happening without trying to sway the public? I’m reminded of when Oregon passed the Death with Dignity Act way back when…
    What’s the way to discourage them to tell everybody what to think? Violence? I hope not.
    (How come there isn’t at least one (1) that would accept the peoples’ decision?)
    [XXX added; remove. H77P removed]

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  395. progress4spam November 7, 2012 at 11:09 pm #

    “It is supremely naive to think that overpopulation is a problem that can be handled at the nation state level.” -turkle-
    Turk, you’re on record as saying immigration into the US should be drastically reduced.
    So what’s with all of your posts today concerning the moral imperative of immigration into the US?
    And, in your answer, don’t forget that ALL of the growth in US population is due to recent immigrants and their children.
    And therefor all, repeat ALL, of the growth in US energy and resource use is due to – wait for it
    immigrants and their children.
    “As the World rushes headlong to environmental disaster, the US leads the way –
    of liberal immigration policies.”

  396. progress4spam November 7, 2012 at 11:13 pm #

    posted too soon –
    “As the World rushes headlong to environmental disaster, the US leads the way –
    mainly due to liberal US immigration policies.”

  397. anti soak November 7, 2012 at 11:17 pm #

    In California, Prop 37, a very important one
    [anti GMOs] lost.
    The chemical industry spent BIG time to defeat it.

  398. anti soak November 7, 2012 at 11:18 pm #

    How are you going to cut E?

  399. Kyooshtik November 7, 2012 at 11:24 pm #

    Any suggestion of a negative market reaction to Obama is more spin from FAUX NEWS.
    I almost never watch Fox News so nothing I wrote came from there and, for that matter, I rarely watch MSNBC either as Larry O. and Rachel M., in particular, give me the creeps. I vehemently dislike the whole range of political punditry and journalism from left to right.
    My Q-Headline piece was mainly intended to bust balls and produce angst in YOU since you are so laughably sensitive about any hint that “the black man” might be perceived as unable to cut the mustard in something other than basketball, intercourse, and tap dance. You have held up well though in the face of Vlad’s relentless barrages these past several years.
    Anyway, I was careful not to take any firm position of my own on what was driving the market down today since on any given day the reasons for market movements are as numerous as the traders causing it.
    Speaking of angst, every left-winger from yourself to the Op-Ed staff of the NY Times was palpably vibrating after the first debate when it was looking like the A-hole stupid enough to say earlier “my wife drives a coupla Caddies” might actually pull this sucker out. Folks like Wage and Hancock must have been beside themselves. Though I “could give a shit” who would ultimately win I loved observing the angst.
    As to today’s market plunge (in which I lost a bundle BTW) I found the following explanation as reasonable as any.

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  400. Radu Voda November 7, 2012 at 11:50 pm #

    Good video by Dr Duke on the Disaster which stems from the Disastrous control of our Nation by the Zionists.
    Some Conservatives have said that Obama won every state that didn’t require ID’s but that proably not a direct causation. The states that didn’t require ID’s are just very liberal, exactly the ones that would vote for Obama. There may have been some cheating, but I don’t think that’s why Obama won. Unfortunately there’s just too many idiots, low lifes, and traitors.

  401. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 12:06 am #

    even on the most anecdotal evidence it is obvious that humans have innate need to fragment into segregate groups…

    Sorry to press you on this anecdotal claim with some facts.
    Approval of Mixed Marriages
    4% in 1958
    20% in 1968
    36% in 1978
    48% in 1991
    65% in 2002
    77% in 2007
    86% in 2011
    Maybe your perception of “innate need to fragment into segregate groups” comes from your memory of 1958. Obviously fragmentation is not “innate” nor is segregation of the races innate or even frowned upon.
    I don’t know how old you are Cavepainter, but my suspicion is that what we have here is a generational change of attitudes from 1958 to 2011. Nothing innate about it.
    When the old white racist attitudes die out, and they are, natural acceptance of miscegenation occurs, and it is.

  402. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 12:14 am #

    Obviously fragmentation is not “innate” nor is segregation of the races innate and now even miscegenation is not frowned upon.

  403. Buck Stud November 8, 2012 at 12:20 am #

    “ Dr. Duke On the Disaster”: Looking through the foggy glass for The Lost Tribe of Krandz, starring Inspector Clouseau.
    Good Gawd Vlad, I swear…sometimes you crack me up!

  404. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 12:29 am #

    Barfy barf and mistified are quiet today.
    Maybe because their imaginary Romney landslide did not materialize. It wasn’t even close.
    Obama won the popular vote by almost 3 million votes.
    Obama won the electoral vote 303 to 206.
    Not even close.
    Obama has a mandate.

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  405. manhe3007 November 8, 2012 at 12:53 am #

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  406. anti soak November 8, 2012 at 1:08 am #

    40,000 somalis being bussed by demoncrats to the
    polls in Ohio, almost all illiterate, 1/2 illegals.
    Heres the clash tween the past and future:
    ORLANDO, Fla. –
    An Orlando man is fighting city officials to keep his vegetable garden in his front yard.
    You have to step over radishes, wax beans and kale to get to Jason Helvingston’s front door in College Park.
    However, his 25 x 25 foot micro-irrigated vegetable garden is against city code, and the city of Orlando has asked Helvingston to dig it up by Wednesday.
    “I said, ‘You’ll take my house before you take my vegetable garden,'” he said. “There’s nothing wrong here, there’s nothing poisonous here. This is a sustainable plot of land.”
    City code requires ground covers to be planted in a way that gives off a finished appearance so neighborhood lawns are clean, and inviting — keeping property values up………………..
    Trying to bring the realty boom back to F-L-A!

  407. Radu Voda November 8, 2012 at 1:20 am #

    That makes no sense since you’re not a Libertarian. No voting at all has more dignity than voting for someone you don’t support. Or why not write in Kdog or Virgil Goode or Radu Voda? I believe I got one vote from Xhalor – or he might have been drunk and just pulling my chain.

  408. Radu Voda November 8, 2012 at 1:28 am #

    There are also stories of retards being brought to vote – and I don’t mean Blacks.

  409. Pucker November 8, 2012 at 1:33 am #

    Have you ever noticed that a person has more energy if he/she eats fewer calories? Why is that? It’s ironic….
    Have you noticed that everything is now very ironic? For example, the more money that is created, the more in debt everyone is. Or, the harder that people work to make money, the less money that they have because of the rate of inflation. Or, to solve problems, people resort to complex solutions, which in turn create even more complex problems. Or that Obama is about usher in austerity, which is going to hurt the same people who voted for him.
    It’s like Daoism, the harder you push the more resistence that you encounter. Lots of irony…..
    I wonder if the Greeks had a god of Irony? Nemesis?

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  410. Radu Voda November 8, 2012 at 1:33 am #

    You don’t need to be a minority to be desired by Latinas. Indeed many wanted to marry us to better themseleves. It’s a big fantasy in Latin America -one that will become less frequent as Whites are ruined.

  411. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 1:35 am #

    Pucker, have you ever noticed that Andy Rooney, the Cranky Voice of CBS, died?
    Are you trying to be the reincarnation of Andy Rooney?

  412. Radu Voda November 8, 2012 at 1:44 am #

    Don’t act all superior you insufferable prick. This election meant alot to you and you were very worried that he wouldn’t make it. Try to be more benevolent in victory. In any case, enjoy your triumph while it last – it wont last long. Disaster looms for America and your favorites the Blacks are too dumb to know that Whites were their best friends. And Hispanics? The new exalted minority, their replacements.

  413. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 2:03 am #

    Radu, there is no rift between whites, Blacks, Jews, Women, Asians, “Rock the Vote” Young, Veterans, Social Justice Evangelicals, and Hispanics.
    Go back and check the voter profile breakdown. They all voted for Obama in the millions, more than in 2008, with more enthusiasm, all in solidarity with each other.
    If some kind of animosity existed, if some kind “innate segregation” separated us into distrustful groups (as Cavepainter believes), Obama could not have been elected.
    But you can’t recognize the REALITY of racial harmony when it is staring you in the face. And you cannot foment hatred between us.
    We all love each other. There is no limit to the number of people we can love.
    Tat Tvam Asi

  414. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 2:11 am #

    And I don’t consider the vote meaningless.
    LOL! I don’t either. It was one less vote for Romney and you helped elect Obama. Good job, ProCon, though probably not what you intended. Nonetheless, I respect you for voting your conscience.

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  415. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 2:18 am #

    The billionaire donors are livid.
    “There is some holy hell to pay. Karl Rove has a lot of explaining to do … I don’t know how you tell your donors that we spent $390 million and got nothing.”
    Rove even suffered the indignity of being insulted on Twitter by the blustery Donald Trump, who had attended Romney’s election night party here on Tuesday night, but left early after it was clear that Obama had won a second term.
    Congrats to @KarlRove on blowing $400 million this cycle. Every race @CrossroadsGPS ran ads in, the Republicans lost. What a waste of money,” Trump tweeted.

  416. Cavepainter November 8, 2012 at 2:21 am #

    I’ll take it Asoka; yeah, I’m an old white guy, which to you translates to “old white racist attitudes”.
    Now, as for yourself, other than suffering grandios paranoia what are you. That is, what label do attach yourself to. I could as well ask what sports team do you favor. Or,…do you count yourself as NOT being a sports fan?
    Have you any affiliations of any kind? Uh, you did vote, right? Who for? Do you feel good about it? Why? What about a hyphonated something or another classification? What, no boundaries of self by which you exclude yourself from certain others? Proud of that?
    Oh never mind, even as an old white guy I can understand how that grandios paranoia thing of yours gets in the way?

  417. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 2:33 am #

    The USA has elected its first Buddhist senator. Mazie Hirono, a Democrat, beat Republican challenger Linda Lingle to become a senator for Hawaii. (Another prominent Buddhist, His Holiness the Dalai Lama, congratulated President Barack Obama on his re-election today and urged Obama to take further steps to address the political situation in Tibet.)

  418. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 2:38 am #

    Buddhists are atheists. Buddhism is an atheistic religion.
    “Basic Points Unifying the Theravada and Mahayana”:
    ** We take refuge in the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha.
    ** We do not believe that this world is created and ruled by a God.
    So, the USA elected its first atheist Senator, Mazie Hirono (HI).
    Go atheists! Elect more atheists, please!

  419. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 2:55 am #

    grandios paranoia?
    Q, help, please!
    Cavepainter, are you a mental health specialist? How do you diagnose via an anonymous internet blog?
    You do realize you are opening yourself to ridicule?

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  420. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 2:58 am #

    A 6.3-magnitude earthquake has been recorded off the west coast of Vancouver Island Wednesday evening, according to the U.S. Geological Survey.
    Third major quake in BC …
    Something’s happening here, and you don’t know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?

  421. Mike Moskos November 8, 2012 at 3:13 am #

    Just an FYI: The FEC Railroad plans to bring privately-run passenger rail service between Miami and Orlando by 2014: allaboardflorida.com

  422. zapqjdcw16 November 8, 2012 at 3:39 am #

    ?????|????}???????????????????????? ?? {????|????|??????????? ?????? {???????????|?????????{???????????| |??????????|??????????????@ Jiujiang,??????? ??????.

    ralated article:

  423. Radu Voda November 8, 2012 at 4:37 am #

    What unites them? Their desire to despoil Whites. Once that is done, what is the glue? Nothing, and the Hispanics will make short work of all these fools.

  424. Widespreadpanic7 November 8, 2012 at 7:38 am #

    Does anybody have an idea what ‘Immigration Reform’ will look like, in a practical sense? Something will probably happen this time around, but I never see any specifics.
    Is MSNBC a legitimate News Organization ?? Or is it an adjunct to the Democratic Party and the re-elect Barack Obama Committee? Its hard to tell them apart.
    Will the Latin Americans who have emigrated to the US ever become assimilated Americans, or will they remain a separate, aggrieved minority group, ripe for exploitive attempts by Democrats to buy their votes? I believe in time they will assimilate, same way the Germans, Irish and Italians assimilated. I had a few friends from Colorado and Texas with Hispanic last names, looked a little Hispanic, but did not know how to speak Spanish. As far as I know they did not consider themselves Hispanic, but American. They were descended from people who emigrated up from Mexico during the revolution of around 1910.
    Anyway, it will be interesting to see how long this democratic coalition of Homosexuals, Hispanic Identity Voters, Public Sector Union Employees, College students and People on Welfare can hold together. When they find out the goodies Barack promised probably won’t materialize, that the the cupboard is bare, they might be pissed. As for Whitey, we know your ancestors from Western Europe founded the Country, and Jewish, Irish, Italian, German, Greek, Scottish etc immigrants built it up, bled for it, died for it in wars all the way back to 1776 … that’s all in the past. Your role now is to work your ass off and pay for the revolution. And kneel before your replacements.

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  425. budizwiser November 8, 2012 at 7:47 am #

    What do the election results mean?
    The results signal that roughly half the American electorate believe what the rich people tell them. The other half believe what the slightly less rich people tell them.
    My perspective suggests the most interesting aspect of all the vacuous election content was that 100 million people can vote in a democratic system without having any idea what those people running really think…….
    One singular moment of intellectual honestly and informational daylight did appear when Romney was filmed uttering his infamous “47%” comments.
    Last time it was O’bama’s “guns and religion” remark.
    Golly gee-whiz – we are “an all growed-up” bunch here in the States – aren’t we??

  426. Widespreadpanic7 November 8, 2012 at 7:49 am #

    Also, Jim, you claim Capital Formation will be a problem in the future, but every time I turn around here a new huge project is being started. They are all Government Funded. For starters: $1 Billion 8 mile busway from nowhere to nowhere, $12 million boat launch in Glastonbury, new Magnet Schools everywhere, Community College construction, high rise apt buildings in Hartford … the money is coming from somewhere, maybe from selling bonds that will never pay off.
    — WSP7

  427. newworld November 8, 2012 at 8:12 am #

    Obama won the majority of the 10 richest counties.
    That means nothing changes, our direction as they say is baked into the cake and that is it.
    Predictions once the Iranian thugs feel really threatened with job loss the Mooslim spring gets really really exciting and the excitement comes to the oil exporters.
    And yet one more prediction, whites break the censorship that keeps them from discussing their fate as whites. A major victory for free speech and away from the taboos of non-whites. Too bad for you anti-whites.

  428. Barfy Barf November 8, 2012 at 8:21 am #

    She is a liar — I am not calling her a name, just stating the obvious fact that even the main stream media managed to stumble upon. So I don’t think she is such a nice woman after all. She is way off in left field. All the liberals like to talk about “far right” but Mass had a liberal Republican and voted him out of office. I don’t get that one….
    Perhaps Kunstler and company will get their wish now — total collapse of the economy. Then what? Peak oil and walkable communities won’t matter much when blood is running in all the major cities and spilling out into the suburbs. But then Kunstler the anarchist can write another book or two and get zombie followers to buy it.

  429. progress4spam November 8, 2012 at 8:28 am #

    “one less vote for Romney and you helped elect Obama. Good job, ProCon,”
    – the resident impediment, twisting facts again –
    The Electoral College system means that my vote for Johnson had NO EFFECT on Obomber’s election.
    And the Resident Impediment knows that full well, but prefers spreading heat (anger/hate?) to light (truth).
    The saddest outcome of this election for Native Born black citizens is the way that Black Racism stands revealed, now.
    I mean, really – 98%+ voting percentages for Obama from Blacks.
    That’s racist.
    This won’t end well.

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  430. progress4spam November 8, 2012 at 8:41 am #

    “Does anybody have an idea what ‘Immigration Reform’ will look like, in a practical sense? Something will probably happen this time around, but I never see any specifics.”
    Widespread, it looks as though “immigration reform” is going to be translated into “making all these illegals currently in the US legal. And then making sure that all future “illegals” have a way to be “legal” before they even walk, swim, or fly into the USA.
    We’re heading to this mess – at least for the Americas.
    Our globalists are gleeful.
    Our military likes the growth.
    Long term, though – our planet is likely to be rendered unfit for human life because of this madness.
    Serves us fscking right, I suppose.

  431. Widespreadpanic7 November 8, 2012 at 8:54 am #

    I don’t know P2C, maybe all of Latin America will soon empty out and head ‘El Norte’, for the generous welfare benefits if nothing else. Only problem for me, I don’t know if the Castillian Spanish my wife speaks is compatible with what they speak in Peru and Mexico. I’ll have to find out. If not, I’m screwed!

  432. ozone November 8, 2012 at 11:04 am #

    OOoooo, the “Dream Act”; it’s so dreeeeamy!
    “The 2009 Bill had very generous provisiions, giving children who qualify the opportunity to “earn” Permanent Residency. This meant that students wouldl be issued temporary Residency for a period of six years, which is conditioned upon meeting certain educational or military requirements. Within the six year temporary Residency period, a qualified student must attend college, and earn at least a two year degree (AA), or serve in the U.S. Military for two years in order to maintain immigration benefits. Once the immigrant has met all of the conditions at the end of the 6-year conditional period, they will be granted Permanent Residency, which will lead to U.S. citizenship. However, if the student does not comply with either the college requirement or military service requirement, the temporary Residency will be taken away and student will be subjected to deportation.”
    (There have been a few “behavioral” requirements added to make it more palatable to the Christo-fascists for the upcoming round of legislative tomfoolery of retroactively legalizing more shit.)
    My paranoia informs me quite well in this regard.
    Where oh where to get recruits for the Empire’s military with the right “temperament” (brainwashed mindset provided by fine, Chicago-style educational institutions) and lack of scruples about using martial force against their “fellow” citizens (y’know, like a handy, built-in resentment by experience)?
    No problemo, mis amigos [et al.]; they’re already here! How convenient izzat, I ask you?
    With the mere stroke of a pen, and not a shot fired… the wonders of governmental fiat backed by well-armed ignoranti.

  433. ozone November 8, 2012 at 11:18 am #

    No worries there, either!
    Other than the usual regional idioms and differing names for a few common items (by dint of ancient native languages), linguistic congress is easily achieved between Spaniards and South Americans.
    (I’ve heard this directly from Spaniards traveling the length and breadth of the south of the continent.)

  434. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 11:55 am #

    “Somebody needs to stand up and say, “When you win the election, you pick the nominees. Until then, shut up! Just shut up! Just go away! Bury yourselves in your rat holes and don’t come out until you win an election. When you win an election, you can put all these socialist wackos, like Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer, all over the court, but until then, SHUT UP! You are really irritating me.” — Rush Limbaugh (2005)

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  435. anti soak November 8, 2012 at 11:57 am #

    How many ‘latinos’ and immigrants are in the military now?
    How many Asians?

  436. anti soak November 8, 2012 at 12:00 pm #

    ‘Bigger’ people need more calories only if the weight is lean BM.
    A very fat person does not need more food.
    Their fat is stored food.

  437. anti soak November 8, 2012 at 12:05 pm #

    Yes, a ruined USA.
    I cant dismiss Supkis as a nitwit but over at her blog her ecstasy that a demoncrat won is undeniable.
    ‘Gay Marriage’! Obama! Abortion!!!
    No note from her that Obama has zero morals.
    i bought ‘Obama Nation’. Have not been able to finish it. The part about legal infanticide.
    infants left to die, due to our dear leader.
    No mention of that from supkis or the dems.
    Perhaps the lefts mentality has to do with ….
    What Dickens writes “Telescopic Philanthropy” he is referring to the philanthropy of caring for those far away, and forgetting the philanthropy of giving to those closest to you

  438. asoka,, November 8, 2012 at 12:27 pm #

    Read it and weep. Our currency is whirling down the drain. LOL!

  439. Kiwi November 8, 2012 at 12:27 pm #

    The story will never be told of the true losses from Sandy. Even those who HAD flood insurance are now coming to the realization that they too have been swindled. Flood insurance comes with a laundry list of exclusions that will leave many of these people holding the bag for 30% or more of their property losses. Buildings not attached to the main house structure, landscaping, driveways, fences, and any item left outside the home like lawn mowers are not covered. Insurance will also refuse to pay collateral damages caused by moisture, but above the water line.
    When such disasters happen, insurance companies send in special teams to handle claims. Their mission is to mitigate losses for their companies. The idea sold to you that your agent, whom you have come to trust, will be there is a lie. They will in fact be operating under a corporate gag order and likely won’t speak to you at all.
    Organizations to the rescue, such as the Red Cross will be packed and gone 30 minutes after the media leaves. They likely won’t even leave a help number taped to the window of the vacant office they rented for the few day media event / fund raiser.
    Many of these people who were “secure” and well insured will dissappear into the American Dream fog, having suffered losses so great that they will never recover in their lifetime. Many will be forced to walk away from their property because they cannot fund the rebuild.
    I know these things first hand.

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  440. Cavepainter November 8, 2012 at 12:29 pm #

    Is it not a given that those here illegally have been advantaged over what would have been their lot staying in their nation of origin? Then why is it not appropriate for them to say “thanks” and now return; taking that advantage and their anchor babies (who’ve advantaged even more) with them?
    OK, maybe the adjustment for the children back in the parents’ countries of origin might be a difficult transition, but the parents are certainly qualified — being “native” to those cultures — to provide that guidance.
    What is the moral argument for relieving the parents of that “parenting” obligation while saddling the American tax payer with obligation to a foster parent/nannyship roll on behalf of those children?
    The point of immigration laws is for protecting control of national destiny as privilege exclusive to citizenship. Defaulting immigration laws to wishes of foreign nationals “to do better” by disregarding those laws constitutes a breach of oath of office taken by elected representatives to serve the citizenry.
    The moral argument is a dead end hypocrisy if not extended to all desperate people in the world who believe they might gain advantage by coming to the US. Ready for that?

  441. Radu Voda November 8, 2012 at 12:56 pm #

    But she’s Anti-Zionist though, right? Would you call her a globalist?
    I’m wondering if she’s evidence of my theory that there are two groups of Globalists: the Zionist Neo Cons and CFR/United Nations types.

  442. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 12:59 pm #

    Defaulting immigration laws to wishes of foreign nationals “to do better” by disregarding those laws constitutes a breach of oath of office taken by elected representatives to serve the citizenry.
    We just had an election. The guy holding your views was defeated. But keep it up … and your kind will never again hold office in this country. It is our country now. God bless the immigrants. Love thy neighbor. Stop whining.

  443. Radu Voda November 8, 2012 at 1:02 pm #

    When I hear about a Spanish guy getting the purple heart, I always check the picture – and it’s always a White guy with a Spanish name. Race is the key WSP, as usual. Hispanic is a word made up by the Mestizos to distinguish themselves from the White Spanish who are assimilated into American life. They have no intention and/or ability to do the same.
    The Mestizos don’t like the word Mexican either since Mexico is ruled by Whites. And they’re afraid to fuck with those Whites. The war of the Drug Lords against Mexico might be seen as a Mestizo revolt perhaps.

  444. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 1:31 pm #

    Widespread, thanks for asking for specifics on immigration reform. Obama has outlined his vision for a 21st century immigration policy. You and ProCon probably agree with Obama on immigration:
    ** Responsibility by the federal government to secure our borders: Today, our borders are more secure than at any time in the past several decades, and the Administration continues to refine and strengthen its strategy. Enforcement resources should be focused on preventing those who would do our nation harm from entering our country.
    ** Accountability for businesses that break the law by undermining American workers and exploiting undocumented workers: Employers who deliberately hire and exploit undocumented workers must be held accountable. At the same time, we must give employers who want to play by the rules a reliable way to verify that their employees are here legally.
    ** Strengthening our economic competitiveness by creating a legal immigration system that reflects our values and diverse needs: Our immigration laws should continue to reunify families and encourage individuals we train in our world-class institutions to stay and develop new technologies and industries in the United States rather than abroad. The law should stop punishing innocent young people whose parents brought them here illegally and give those young men and women a chance to stay in this country if they serve in the military or pursue higher education. A smart 21st century system should also provide farmers a legal way to hire the workers they rely on year after year, and it should improve procedures for employers who seek to hire foreign workers for jobs if U.S. workers are not available.
    ** Responsibility from people who are living in the United States illegally: Those people living here illegally must also be held accountable for their actions and get on the right side of the law by registering and undergoing national security and criminal background checks, paying taxes and a penalty, and learning English before they can get in line to become eligible for citizenship. Being a citizen of this country comes not only with rights but also with fundamental responsibilities. We can create a pathway for legal status that is fair and reflects our values.

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  445. Radu Voda November 8, 2012 at 1:55 pm #

    You know that Buddhism has nothing to do with Western Atheism so why sow the seeds of confusion? You always betray the best in yourself. This trickster stage you are stuck in is not a spiritual thing, but merely a psychological adolescent kink.
    You obviously don’t believe in either sin or karma since the penalty for consciously distorting the Dharma is very high…
    You know alot about some aspects of spiritual life but absolutely nothing about others.

  446. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 1:56 pm #

    You know alot about some aspects of spiritual life but absolutely nothing about others.
    That probably puts me among 99% of the population.

  447. beantown bill November 8, 2012 at 2:03 pm #

    Everything starts with a philosophy. Right now Americans’ energy philosophy is that we can use as much energy as we want; that has to change. A more appropriate energy philosophy is that we must lower our consumption as much as possible. This is a matter of education – we must educate the population about energy reserves.
    Look, we educated the public about the health hazards of smoking. It didn’t stop everyone from smoking, but it did lower the smoking rate in the population. We can do the same with energy.
    Philosophy is only the first step. We could mandate a national auto fleet average mileage of 45-50 m.p.g. within 2 or 3 years. That would help. We could require all building lighting and signage lighting to be shut off after a certain hour. We could mandate a national rolling brownout policy for 5 to 15 minutes per day. We could synchronize airline flights to maximize fuel efficiency, just as some areas now synchronize traffic lights.
    We could stop importing oil, driving up the cost of gas prices to the point where people would have to restrict their driving. When I was a kid I smoked (I quit in 1982). The cost of a pack of Lucky Strikes was $.18. Today, I don’t what the price is, but I think it’s over five or six dollars a pack, at least. The price has gone up because of increased taxes, exclusive of inflation. We could do the same for gasoline. We could re-vamp our railroad system.
    There’s a lot more we could do. The point is, we need a national awareness program on energy conservation. We must make it immoral to use too much energy because we’re all stuck on the same planet.

  448. beantown bill November 8, 2012 at 2:12 pm #

    I was reading the latest issue of Skeptical Enquirer the other day, and noted that apparently the whole concept of race is beginning to be regarded as erroneous and outdated by many anthropologists – all we are is human. Another nail in the Vlad coffin.

  449. debt November 8, 2012 at 2:13 pm #

    Vlad cuts to the root of your hypocrisy and game playing here. As usual you pick one sentence to respond to and you respond evasively. Which is no response at all. And you do it with a mocking tone thereby attempting to invalidate his point.
    You’re such a weasel. And you wonder why so many here see you as a full of shit shyster.

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  450. beantown bill November 8, 2012 at 2:17 pm #

    Actually, Pucker, you’ve made a pretty interesting statement.

  451. Buck Stud November 8, 2012 at 2:17 pm #

    I was never worried and my past posts – the confident citing of the amazingly accurate Nate Silver – were very clear on who I thought would win. Your side, on the other hand, was the most delusional group I have ever witnessed. I listened to Rush Limbaugh the day before the election and talk about sticking a head in the sand. And not only him, but the entire GOP. The utter denial in the face of sweeping change was almost sympathy producing in its pathetic expression. Like Custer raising the hand of victory as he is being surrounded.
    And no, this election victory was not “cyclical”; it was STRUCTURAL.

  452. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 2:21 pm #

    You’re such a weasel.
    debt, thank you for expressing your opinion. Don’t forget the other term of choice: slimy eel. LOL!

  453. Buck Stud November 8, 2012 at 2:27 pm #

    Have you ever really lived among Mexicans, Chicano, or any other group of Latino(a) people? I have my doubts. I have; in fact a large part of my life. I have a backyard that leads out to a large open space type park and every Sunday afternoon you would think you were in Mexico because of the spoken Spanish and all of the Mexican men playing soccer. They used to come over and politely ask if they could take a drink from my but by now they know they are perfectly welcome. And once in a while, when I’m feeling generous, I offer them more than water. One day, one of the women knocks on my door and offers me some tamales, as a reciprocal act of kindness. That was pretty damn cool and let me tell you, pretty damn yummy too.
    But I only see them on Sunday afternoons. The rest of the week they are undoubtedly working very hard.
    Vlad, you’re just going to have to learn how to adapt and accept because your vision of the world is as brittle as an old dry twig. Grow up and grow tall.

  454. debt November 8, 2012 at 2:28 pm #

    Did you even READ this article??

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  455. beantown bill November 8, 2012 at 2:35 pm #

    If you mean when Warren claimed she was of Indian ancestry, I’m not at all certain that it was a lie. The concept of a politician lying? My God, it couldn’t be!
    Brown lost because his election was an anomaly in the first place. Remember, this is the “Kennedy seat”, going back to the 1950’s. The whole state barely has a Republican party; Massachusetts is an overwhelmingly Democratic area with a history of rebellion, which is why it occasionally elects a Republican governor or senator.

  456. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 2:38 pm #

    Well said, Buck Stud. Structural is the right word.
    We are not going to have a Supreme Court that overturns Roe v. Wade
    There will be no more Scalias and Alitos added to the court.
    We are not going to repeal health reform.
    No one is going to kill Medicare and make old people of this generation or any other generation fight it out on the open market to get themselves health insurance.
    We are not going to give a 20% tax cut to millionaires and billionaires and expect programs like food stamps and kids’ health care to cover the cost of that tax cut.
    We’re not gonna make you clear it with your boss if you want to get birth control under the insurance plan that you’re on.
    We are not gonna redefine rape.
    We are not going to amend the constitution to make it impossible for gay people to get married.
    We are not eliminating the Dept. of Energy, or the Dept. of Education, or Housing or the EPA at the federal level.
    We are not going to spend $2 TRILLION on the military that the military does not want.
    We are not going to scale back on student loans because the new plan is that students should borrow money from their parents.
    We are not vetoing the DREAM Act.
    We are not self-deporting.
    We are not letting Detroit go bankrupt.
    We are not starting a trade war with China on Inauguration Day in January.
    We are going to have a man as President who once led a mob of friends to run down a scared gay kid to hold him down and forcibly cut his hair off with a pair of scissors while that kid cried and screamed for help. And there was no apology, not ever.
    We are not going to have a Secretary of State John Bolton.
    We are not bringing Dick Cheney back.
    We are not going to have a foreign policy stocked with architects of the Iraq War.
    We are not going to do it. We had the choice to do that, if we wanted to do that as a country. And we said, “NO!” loudly.

  457. Radu Voda November 8, 2012 at 2:39 pm #

    Considering how women voted for Obama and also how many bright, competent women devote their lives TO SERVING OTHER WOMEN and not America, are you ready to reconsider your policy of voting for women when all other things are equal?
    They are wired to look out for themselves as a group. Men are wired to look out for them too. Seems like voting for men is the better option. Men have almost no natural “class consciousness” but women are born with it. Check you experience: say something against a woman at a party and they’re all against you. Say somethinga against a man, are all the men against you? Totally different thing.

  458. Radu Voda November 8, 2012 at 2:40 pm #

    You need a knuckle sandwich punk.

  459. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 2:46 pm #

    debt, be clear that you are addressing Asoka,, (comma comma)
    I am Asoka.. (period period)
    There is at least one more… Asoka_ (underscore)
    Pay attention to which Asoka you are replying.
    You cannot insult a phantom. And I know it is really important to you to make a proper insult (just like in junior high school!)

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  460. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 2:48 pm #

    Yes, it is common for someone to resort to violence when they have no other recourse. You are showing your junior high mind, as well, your true nature. You fool no one here, Radu. You are one sad puppy.

  461. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 3:00 pm #

    Warren’s great-great-great grandmother on her mother’s side was Cherokee, making Warren—provided the genealogist didn’t miss anything—1/32 Native American if her great-great-great grandmother was full-blooded (that’s unclear). Warren has said that both of her mother’s parents had American Indian blood, in which case the fraction would obviously be a little bit bigger. (It’s plausible that some of Warren’s relatives would have masked their Cherokee heritage, given the legally prescribed second-class citizenship bestowed upon American Indians for much of the 20th century.) Per newspaper clippings released by her campaign, other members of Warren’s family, including a first cousin, have embraced their Cherokee roots and are active in American Indian causes in Oklahoma, where she grew up.
    Elizabeth Warren for President 2016

  462. Kyooshtik November 8, 2012 at 3:13 pm #

    Go back and check the voter profile breakdown. They all voted for Obama in the millions, more than in 2008, with more enthusiasm, all in solidarity with each other.
    The entire post from which the above is an excerpt is one of your most disingenuous ever. I would have said stupidest but nobody is that stupid.
    I have read several different breakdowns of the vote and the thing that jumps out in flashing neon lights is that 93 to 98% of blacks voted for Obama. It could not be more obvious that they did so for one primary reason…Obama is black. Duh! You did not have grey haired old black women in Mississippi or black 20 somethings in Atlanta, Chicago, Duluth, or Portland, pondering over Obama’s approach to Medicare reform or how he would handle the looming “fiscal cliff” to decide if they would trust him with their vote more so than Romney. A second term for Obama was required to complete the comeuppance of whitey for 400 years of slavery.
    The numbers for Asians and Hispanics were only slightly less amazing…70 some percent for Obama. It is perfectly clear that he effectively bought their vote with the hold on deportations of illegals and with the the implied promise of continued growth in left-wing welfare-ism.
    And then you have another amazing gap…55% of women for Obama but only 45% of men. These men and women live in the same households. How could their perception be so vastly different (55 to 45 is huge). Months ago, and even in the 2008 election, I was able to predict with great accuracy that Obama would win and I was nearly dead-on with the percentages. My insight came not from any fancy polls but from an epiphany while viewing photos showing the rapturous faces of women in the presence of Obama at one of his stump speeches. Their rapture had nothing to do with Obama’s policy stances on issues, it was something more primal in the male-female dynamic.
    Finally you have the 18 to 29 year old youth vote solidly for Obama. Beside the fact that youth has a penchant for doing the opposite of their elders, this cohort has been thoroughly brainwashed and homogenized by politically correct public education like no other before it. (This is a key reason I am against “public” education. It turns out cookie-cutter brains and standardized belief systems from government mandated curricula.) The older the age cohort you look at the narrower the gap between Obama’s and Romney’s vote count is until in the oldest group they are heavily for Romney. There was a time when wisdom came with age but no longer. Now wisdom comes with Jay Z and “the Boss.”
    Nor do I think your statement: “They all voted for Obama in the millions, more than in 2008, with more enthusiasm, all in solidarity with each other.” is honest or accurate. If, in fact, Obama
    got more votes this time vs 2008 it was because population is greater now and turnout heavier. Also, I believe, the percentage gap is narrower this time than in 2008.
    “More enthusiasm” is a myth in your mind only. You have been swayed by TV images of the type people that show up and go wild with joy at an acceptance speech. They are like people stupid enough to stand in Times Square when it’s 13 degrees out waiting for the ball to descend. Such people are atypical. Great numbers were dissatisfied with O’s first term performance and their votes this time were based on the “lesser of two evils.”
    The existence of “solidarity” among Obama supporters is likewise a figment of your imagination. The appearance of solidarity is accidental. Asians did not vote for Obama in great numbers in league with women concerned that under Romney they might not be able to abort their “accidents.” Each constituency had its own reasons (outlined above) which only gelled for the winner by happenstance.

  463. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 3:15 pm #

    Has anyone looked at FOX News today? What is wrong?
    Suddenly there is no more 24/7 Benghazi conspiracy coverage. It’s as if FOX News does not care anymore. Strange.

  464. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 3:26 pm #

    Each constituency had its own reasons (outlined above) which only gelled for the winner by happenstance.
    Yes, a good community organizer does that. A good community organizer is able to gel communities toward a common cause. Obama has done it twice now. It is not “happenstance.”
    The outcome was never in doubt. I followed Nate Silver’s statistical analyses. I was reassured by FOX News, which said that math has a liberal bias. It was in the bag.
    Republicans cannot deal with math, but Nate Silver called 50 states out of 50 states correctly.
    I said it was not going to be close (in a post here on CFN) before the election. Barfy barf and other losers were talking about a “Romney landslide,” parroting FAUX News propaganda.

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  465. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 3:32 pm #

    Nor do I think your statement: “They all voted for Obama in the millions, more than in 2008, with more enthusiasm, all in solidarity with each other.” is honest or accurate. If, in fact, Obama got more votes this time vs 2008 it was because population is greater now and turnout heavier.
    Heavier turnout usually indicates more enthusiasm. You can’t be so stupid. You are desperate to counter my assertions, but your reasoning is flawed. But then, you really never cared who won. Right? Right.

  466. Rhino November 8, 2012 at 3:35 pm #

    There’s people that see Obama as a black demon sent to earth to bring down the US and generally fuck things up.
    But if I was a religious type I wouldn’t see Obama as a devil.
    That honor would be for Paul Ryan, that consummate liar, incarnated as an All American Boy through who knows what behind the scenes corruption of events ie making the un-natural appear natural.
    And who, in the fullness of time took the stage, adopting a position of influence, persuasively whispering sweet nothings. Like, there really IS such a thing as a free lunch. Like you really CAN cut tax rates by 20% and STILL balance the budget. Like you MUSTN’T tax “job-creators”. Do all these things and there will be riches for all.
    Utterly irrational yet so convincing.
    His Most Foul Excellency worked wonders in hatching this apparition. A marvel really.
    Who knows what its real name is or whether it even has a name. But nonetheless so human appearing. This Worm is apparently three dimensional, speaks well, has the look, sound and smell of one of us, learned human ways, married a human female, fathered human offspring.
    And seduced Romney. And was instrumental in getting almost half the vote. Imagine that. Spectacularly good job. Just magnificent. It showed the power of malice. And the seductiveness of the Lie in human affairs.
    Good job but not good enough. Obama won.
    This whole affair showed I suppose, that the contest between Good and Evil is a close run thing, 50 to 48.5 percent if you want to put numbers to it. Perilous to say the least. But maybe Good, in the long run, has the upper hand.
    Even shackled as it is, its reach is long so tempting as it is to poke fun at the failure one doesn’t want to provoke the Beast. So I’ll shut up.
    But I’ll bet that Gabriel and Michael are grinning ear to ear. And man, I’ll bet that rankles. So, Gabriel and Michael, put a lid on it.

  467. Kyooshtik November 8, 2012 at 3:37 pm #

    They used to come over and politely ask if they could take a drink from my but
    BTW, it is spelled butt

  468. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 3:39 pm #

    Rhino, I think we learned three things from the experience of the last two elections:
    1) Negative advertising does not work.
    2) Money cannot buy elections.
    3) The American people are not stupid.
    (they were not swayed by negative ads or impressed by millionaires’ and SuperPACs’ money)

  469. Rhino November 8, 2012 at 3:43 pm #

    Q: What’s 18 inches long and hangs between Jamie Dimon’s legs?
    A: Barack Obama’s tie.
    Insofar as domestic policy goes it makes no difference which of the two won.
    In foreign policy it might have. But we’ll never know.

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  470. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 3:53 pm #

    the thing that jumps out in flashing neon lights is that 93 to 98% of blacks voted for Obama. It could not be more obvious that they did so for one primary reason…Obama is black.
    This is a lazy racist argument. People did not vote for Obama because he is Black. They voted for Obama’s values, for Obama’s character, not out of demographics.
    Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota voted for Obama, and they are not heavily Black. People were values voters, not demographics voters.

  471. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 4:02 pm #

    Rhino, if you think it is appropriate to tell jokes about world leaders, here is one for Canada:
    Stephen Harper and a few of his Conservative buddies are taking a stroll when they come upon a little girl carrying a basket with a blanket over it near the Parliament building in Ottawa.
    Curious, Prime Minister Stephen Harper asks the girl, ‘What’s in the basket?’
    She replies, ‘New baby kittens,’ and she opens the basket to show him.
    ‘How nice,’ says Harper. ‘What kind are they?’ The little girl says, ‘Conservatives.’
    Harper smiles, pats the little girl on the head and continues on.
    Three weeks later, Harper is taking another stroll, this time with his wife. They see the little girl again with the same basket. Harper says, ‘Watch this, Laureen; it’s really cute.’ They approach the little girl. He greets the little girl and says ‘how are the kittens doing, and she says, ‘Fine.’ Then, smirking, he nudges Layton with his elbow and asks the little girl, ‘And can you tell us what kind of kittens they are?’
    She replies, ‘Liberals.’
    Abashed, Harper says, ‘But three weeks ago you said they were Conservatives!’
    ‘I know,’ she says. ‘But now their eyes are open.’

  472. Kyooshtik November 8, 2012 at 4:11 pm #

    DOW down another 120 pts. Nothing to do with election results…it’s the looming fiscal cliff.;o)

  473. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 4:13 pm #

    Remember CFN doctrine:
    Wall Street has nothing to do with Main Street. When Wall Street goes up, it means nothing.
    When Wall Street goes down, DOOM!

  474. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 4:16 pm #

    You don’t really believe in the fiscal cliff, do you? Obama said in the debate “That’s not going to happen” (referring to automatic cuts to defense spending, etc.) They will either come up with a compromise, or they will kick the can down the road, but they won’t cut the defense budget by $100 BILLION.

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  475. Kyooshtik November 8, 2012 at 4:52 pm #

    Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota voted for Obama, and they are not heavily Black.
    You’re being a slimy eel again, trying to twist a point I made in a different direction. I did not say that Obama didn’t get votes in states that are not heavily black. I said that of all black voters (from wherever) 93 to 98% voted for Obama. I doubt that America will ever again see such race-based lopsidedness, white, black, red, or yellow, in an election for President.
    You have slyly changed the terms by saying “People did not vote for Obama because he is Black.” Opining from NY Times published data, I said blacks voted for Obama because he is black, not people.
    You, of all people, arguing that the man you feel should be tried for crimes against humanity was voted in for his values and character is laughable…but I must keep reminding myself that you are large…etc. Or have you had second thoughts and concluded that the drone bombings of Afgan wedding parties and American Muslim clerics was, perhaps, OK after all. Hey, you have to break some eggs to make an omelet.

  476. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 5:41 pm #

    Hey, you have to break some eggs to make an omelet.
    So don’t make an omelet.

  477. ozone November 8, 2012 at 5:49 pm #

    Archie the Druid ess-plainz hizsef in regards to Octember’s speculations on one possible scenario of the Great Crumbling/Unwinding.
    (Didn’t you read them? Oh, thought not.)
    A small point of the whole of the dissertation:
    “Those of my readers who are incensed by the extreme disparity in wealth between the rich and the rest in this country should remember that most of that disparity consists of paper wealth, much of it of very questionable value. Trillions of dollars worth of dubious derivatives, asset-backed securities backed by wholly insecure assets, loans that will never be paid back, and equally hallucinatory stores of wealth currently pad the notional net worth of America’s rich; in any imaginable post-American future, all that will be reassessed at its real value, which in most cases amounts to zero. Just as the Great Depression saw huge income and net worth disparities in American society drop like a rock as vast amounts of paper wealth turned into mere paper, the Greater Depression that will follow the end of American empire will almost certainly see the same phenomenon on an even larger scale. One moral to this story is that any of my readers who have their wealth tied up in paper assets of any kind might be wise to think, hard, about how long they want to leave it there.”
    Disagree? I was most desirous that you would…
    This slice is no where near the central idea of the article; if you’re anxious about political outcomes and upshots, remember that the past is prologue, regardless of how a “certain poster” says it ain’t.
    The post-American future also includes the dissolution of the legitimacy of its’ “decider-ers”.
    Don’t think so? Here’s hoping you don’t; the blind don’t fight too well, and when they do, they make rash, strategically untenable decisions.

  478. ozone November 8, 2012 at 6:02 pm #

    From JMG on the historical lesson/referencing of the Falklands kerfuffle in his fictional construct:
    “One of the points of the narrative, in turn, is that the United States just now is a great deal closer to the Argentine situation than to the British one. Here in America, we’ve just spent a year seeing which of two interchangeable candidates will take the presidential oath of office this coming January. Those of my readers who are Republicans, and downcast by Obama’s victory last night, should take heart; the policies we’ll see for the next four years will be exactly the same as the ones that we would have had if your candidate had won, and now you have the freedom to criticize them, while the Democrats have to put up with another four years of pretending that the man they helped put into office isn’t betraying every principle they claim their party stands for. The blustering and violent pursuit of the same failed foreign policy, the eager pursuit of national bankruptcy in the name of global security, the tacit refusal to prosecute even the most egregious financial crimes, the whittling away of civil liberties, the gargantuan giveaways to corrupt but influential industries, and the rest of it: the whole package that’s been welded in place since the days of George W. Bush was guaranteed to continue whoever won.”

  479. asoka.. November 8, 2012 at 6:43 pm #

    From the ArchDruidReport:
    The narrative presented in October’s posts, as I explained at the time, is not my idea of the way that the American empire will fall; it’s simply an account of one way that the American empire could fall…
    In other words, a waste of time, pure speculation. Your time would be better spent chopping firewood for the winter.

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  480. ozone November 8, 2012 at 7:28 pm #

    …Please keep in mind: Should your bank account dwindle to a point that you can no longer afford a luxury berth on The Good Ship Lollipop, there is always plenty of room on the s