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A February night in 1924, in a Manhattan concert hall owned by the Aeolian piano company… the wailing, warped, and flatted clarinet glissando that opens George Gershwin’s Rhapsody in Blue announced the 20th century’s self-recognition that something new was up in the world, and especially in the USA. The composer tried to represent the stupendous energy of the maturing industrial culture in a symphonic cacophony with a core of the deepest tenderness — capturing all the wonder and grace of the moment. For America, everything was on the move. Love and power were in the air.

The idea that this was the American century stuck. The 1920s were a kind of hormonal rush of wonders and amazements. Radio, movies, airplanes, giant industries, electric power in farm houses, the dizzying rush of progress that welled up into a dangerous wave that broke over the world in economic depression, and then war in 1939 — by which time George Gershwin was gone at 38.

America performed splendidly in World War Two, rescuing Europe and Asia from manifest evil. The nation found itself the fully mature leader of the free world, with daunting responsibilities in the Atomic Age, filled with confidence, but tinged with an understandable paranoia in the nervous peace of the 1950s. This was the time of my childhood, along with my fellow travelers, the Baby Boomers. What a time to come into this world!

For a while, the USA luxuriated in power and stability. I sang the Davy Crockett theme song from the Disney TV show, and wore a coonskin hat, and lived in a home where dad left for work in a business suit, and all was well in the world. To me and my childhood friends, the mindboggling horrors of the recent war were reduced to comic books and plastic soldiers in the sandbox. Everything else in America seemed to work as advertised. We built a lot of stuff and saw the USA in our Chevrolet. President Ike bossed around Britain’s PM Anthony Eden. The Yankees bossed around the major leagues. Hardly anyone knew what the Federal Reserve did, or even what it was. Elvis was in the Army, babysitting the defeated Germans. Then somebody splattered John F. Kennedy’s brains all over Dealey Plaza in Dallas, and everything changed again.

That event was not the beginning of the Deep State, but it was the recognition of a more deeply sinister thing than the public had previously imagined — if they thought about it at all. The Vietnam War coincided exactly with the Baby Boomers’ adolescent rebellion and was widely viewed as an exercise in Deep State wickedness. It was violently opposed, and it only ended when our vaunted military lost control of the entire field of operations and got ignominiously shoved out. Meanwhile a rush of events confounded and aggravated the country: the civil rights commotion, more assassinations of major political leaders, Watergate, Feminism, and then the slow, demoralizing dismantling of the very industry that made the 20th century America’s moment in history.

The memory of all that lingers on, while dreams die hard, the clichés go. The institutional damage along the way has been epic. The outstanding moral lesson of World War Two was that there are some things worth believing in and even fighting for. The scene today is a debris field of broken ideals and lost trust in any organized endeavor that advertises itself as having national purpose. The Baby Boomers in their own twilight’s last gleaming seem to be equally composed of the most hardened cynics and the most credulous fantasists. In any case, we are doing a controlled demolition on what used to be pretty rigorous American values while leaving the planet a ruin.

That was not exactly the plan, but as the sad song goes: sometimes things turn instead of turn out. The century we are now in may turn out to be somebody else’s, or perhaps nobody’s — and by that I don’t necessarily mean the end of the world, just the end of a certain chapter in human history. In a mere hundred years we’ve journeyed from George Gershwin’s tender nocturne at the center of his Rhapsody to the clanking, thrash-metal morbidity of Megadeath and beyond. You cannot possibly miss the point. But even that is passing into history. The question begging this haunted country now is: what do we become? And can we find any grace in it?


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Geography of Nowhere The Long Emergency
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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency, and Too Much Magic: Wishful Thinking, Technology and the Fate of the Nation. His novels include World Made By Hand, The Witch of Hebron, Maggie Darling — A Modern Romance, The Halloween Ball, an Embarrassment of Riches, and many others. He has published three novellas with Water Street Press: Manhattan Gothic, A Christmas Orphan, and The Flight of Mehetabel.

939 Responses to “Sometimes Things Turn” Subscribe

  1. 450.org June 10, 2019 at 10:06 am #

    Polls are propaganda. Polls are manipulative. They’re meant to maipulate perception and shape perspective. Honest, objective journalism should never reference polls. Polls are not information to support a point unless your point is that polls are manipulating propaganda.

    Check out this article from The Nation published prior to the 2016 presidential campaign. Was this blubbering buffoon, this apocryphal apparatchik, forced to eat his words and wear the hair shirt for the entirety of Donald Trump’s tenure as POTUS? If not, why not? Where is the accountability for such ribald rubbish?

    When I see polls about Trump’s approval ratings, I laugh and spit at the television or the radio and tell it/them to fuck off. You should to if you have half a brain or even quarter of a brain. Same goes for the polls showing Biden as the most popular Democratic candidate. These polls are not meant to inform you, they’re meant to persuade or dissuade you. They’re meant to shape your perception. They’re meant to make you misperceive our reality. Ignore them and spurn & repudiate those who report on them, and we’ll all be better off.

    Are Hillary Clinton’s Strong Poll Numbers Misleading?

    So for all the hand-wringing over the polls, maybe the best way to predict the results in November is not to discount the polls. Instead, maybe we should rely less on the pundits who say the polls could be wrong, and more on the polls themselves, which have been pretty accurate about Trump’s support so far this election season. Of course things could change in the next 90 days, but the polls right now are clear: Our next president is Hillary Clinton.

      • hmuller June 10, 2019 at 10:50 am #

        My polls show the Dems in 2020 will go down to the most resounding defeat since the Afghan Olympic Women’s Swim Team all drowned in their burqa’s.

        • DrTomSchmidt June 10, 2019 at 11:11 am #

          Trump hasn’t done much for Michigan, PA, or Wisconsin, and those three critical defections from the D column helped put him over the top. Take away the 46 electoral votes from those three and Trump loses.

          Where will he gain votes to offset that?

          • Tate June 10, 2019 at 11:19 am #

            Trump doesn’t have to win. All it takes is for the Dems to lose which it looks like they are trying to do. Of course, if the economy implodes between now & the election, then let’s recalculate the odds.

        • gonetohell June 10, 2019 at 5:12 pm #

          Stop taking polls at the family reunion.

      • shotho June 10, 2019 at 11:08 am #

        And this statement reflects the point that the author of this blog seemed to be making. We are now so non-responsive to reality that we think propaganda, a la polls, is now what really matters. We’ve lost the way that made America dominant (whether or not it should have ever been is another question) and its not to be found again; at least, not in that configuration.
        I like that Kunstler does mention that the world is not necessarily ending (we don’t have any real say in that), but that the future is now cloudy. My own belief is that the two world wars of the twentieth century was the coup de grace for Western civilization, regardless of who is supposed to have won. There is no undoing of the incredible damage from those events and I don’t mean only material damage. There seems nothing for westerners to believe now except buy and possess. Those values do not a civilization make.

        • Janos Skorenzy June 10, 2019 at 12:56 pm #

          After the WW2, the new Elite started calling White Americans, Nazis even though we helped them defeat the Nazis. So obviously we lost every bit as much as the Nazis did. After the death of Kennedy, these efforts intensified. Now Whites are third class citizens behind every non-White who enters America legally or illegally.

          • shotho June 10, 2019 at 1:27 pm #

            Whites are still in charge of most of the levers of power in the West, but, yes, that is changing. It’s what our host is calling a turn. There has never been any certainty that whites would permanently dominate the world.
            Agreed that the death of JFK was symbolic of the death of more than one man.

          • Janos Skorenzy June 10, 2019 at 6:23 pm #

            But it is guaranteed that we will disappear if things don’t change. Our Ruling Class has simply no loyalty to us at all – and thus do they wrong us. And we always hate those whom we have wronged so they hate us as well, a hatred commensurate with their total betrayal of us.

            Needless to say they don’t represent us in any way, shape, or form. Trump pretended to and then betrayed us.

        • SpeedyBB June 11, 2019 at 6:35 pm #

          shotho states: ‘…My own belief is that the two world wars of the twentieth century was the coup de grace for Western civilization, regardless of who is supposed to have won…

          Now that’s a very intriguing and thought-provoking supposition. This type of statement is one reason why the Comments section of Jim Kunstler’s twice-weekly blog is so insightful, and worth reading.

          You’ve got me to a-thinking. Rare stimulus.

      • chipshot June 10, 2019 at 3:29 pm #

        Think you’re on the money, 450. I don’t believe for a second Biden is ahead of Bernie.

        If the DNC and msm stay neutral, Bernie will be our next president.

        • Majella June 10, 2019 at 7:07 pm #

          Agreed. 450 is correct – modern day ‘polls’ are manipulative, and lucrative for those in the business.

          Social polling on any useable scale only arose once the telephone provided mass communication. Initially, they were reflective of actual reality at any given time, the demise of the ubiquitous telephone landline has thrown them all to hell, along with the cynicism of the populace at large that means many will simply lie for the fun of it.

        • Uncle Bob June 10, 2019 at 10:46 pm #

          If any of the 24 (and counting) mental midgets who comprise the field of Dem presidential candidates win, that will end America, either as the AOC’s of the world swarm over Washington as the victorious communists swarmed over the Winter Palace when the Romanovs were deposed or in a full-blown civil war that will make the fun times of the 1860s look like an ice cream social. I didn’t support Trump in 2016, but I basically have to now because the alternative is beyond horrifying. “But free shit! The crazy bastard from Vermont promises to give us everything — money, medical care, education, an end to any environmental threats, total equality — paradise! Who wouldn’t want that?” Who indeed — except maybe Venezuelans, Chinese, Vietnamese and former residents of the Soviet bloc who have endured other “paradises.” He careful what you wish for, in other words, because you might get it, and lose your ass in the process.

          • chipshot June 11, 2019 at 8:52 am #

            Foxist alert!
            Uncle Bob has been brainwashed by the Murdoch agenda.

            You know, ideas like we can’t afford Med for All or tuition-free higher ed, or an infra-stucture building jobs program or a transition to greener energy, but $800,000,000,000 for the Pentagon every year, no problem.

          • benr June 11, 2019 at 10:13 am #

            @chipshot

            Tell me were in our system of government it says everyone should have free (to them) medical, college or this catch all phrase of green energy?

            Talk about group think and brainwashed idiocy.
            Do you have ANY concept of what it takes to pay for all that crap and like it or not the military does provide a return on investment. Do you thin you wave a pixy dust wand and poof the money to pay for all that crap magically appears?
            Ever hear of the Weimar Republic sunshine?
            You might actually want to put a little Fox in your life or Mark Levin, Andrew Wilcow, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Alex Jones, Glenn Beck, G Gordon Liddy, Actually just about anyone but who you have been subverted by.

          • chipshot June 11, 2019 at 1:08 pm #

            Hard pass, benr. Obvious by your reply how toxic those sources are.

          • benr June 11, 2019 at 2:25 pm #

            @chipshot

            ROTFLOL
            You utter toxic and want all the freebies talk about toxic you have been absorbing the sewer pipe of ideas.

          • Majella June 11, 2019 at 6:56 pm #

            Uncle Bob

            Hey, don’t give up! Trump is a joke president and will again still be a joke candidate in Nov 2020 – if he makes it that far.

            You seem to have succumbed to all the BS the right constantly trots out about the progressive agenda being all about ‘free shit’ and ‘rainbows & unicorns’, and then flip to Venezuela as the ‘See? ??? I told ya” exemplar.

            Use your logic. Look at countries where they don’t suffer this tribalism-driven rabidity and just get on with it, where the wealth of society is more fairly distributed. You know, like the US between 1933 and 1980, the ‘Golden Years’ so longed for by the reversionary conservatives.

          • EvelynV June 11, 2019 at 8:16 pm #

            Compared to now most of all that used to be virtually free. A broken arm didn’t cost a year of pay, college was vastly more affordable. Movie actresses didn’t make $100,000,000 for making a single film.

            The money to pay for everything exists but it exists in the pockets of a very few people.

          • benr June 11, 2019 at 8:43 pm #

            Why does everyone wanting free crap under the banner of Socialism always not think things through?

            Why do you think Health care has become so ridiculous?

            Answer:
            Lawyers
            Regulations
            Government got involved.
            Education got so expensive….Why?
            Once again government got involved.
            Now ask yourself what is government actually good at?
            Waste…check!
            Taxing us into oblivion…Check
            Not much else and yet your answer is more government?

            Let me ask a question if you have splinter is the answer to give yourself another splinter?
            Or maybe just smash your thumb with hammer so you forget the annoyance of the splinter.

            Amazing.

            Yea the Donald is a poor choice the Democrats are even worse choices and Bernie who got booted from a hippie commune and never worked a real job in his life is your answer?

            Bernie is a moron.

          • benr June 11, 2019 at 8:45 pm #

            @majella

            So tell us which country that you want the US to be like.
            No wait how about you just move there and leave the rest of us in peace.
            See how easy that is?

          • Majella June 12, 2019 at 6:10 pm #

            benr

            I’m not a Brit, but I’m also not American, though I’ve lived here for over 20 years, and currently in Northern California for some time (married to an American).

            Don’t worry – you’ll get your wish before long. Once my Other Half retires, we’re certainly off to my homeland (sooner, especially if the Clown President gets re-elected), a South Seas Paradise, where education & healthcare is tax-payer funded and the top rate of income tax is less than the US (at 33%).

            In the meantime, and even afterward, I have as much a right to observe and comment on world affairs as anyone else here, regardless of whether you like it or not. And don’t kid yourself, the rest of the planet is keenly & legitimately interested in what the US President does, like a drunk uncle at Thanksgiving, stumbling into furniture & spewing hateful & almost incomprehensible word salad at everyone regardless.

          • GreenAlba June 13, 2019 at 7:20 am #

            benr

            “Why do you think Health care has become so ridiculous?

            Answer:
            Lawyers
            Regulations
            Government got involved.”

            The UK government got involved in healthcare in 1948 by creating the NHS. Prior to that poor people didn’t get healthcare – they just died a lot sooner than less poor people and left families bereft. (The poorest still die sooner than wealthy people but not nearly as early as they did then.)

            Our system is underfunded. It manages on about 9 percent of GDP, while yours costs twice that because it has to feed layers of parasites, like insurance companies, in addition to paying for actual healthcare. And, as you’d expect, its health outcomes are not remotely proportional to the extra cost it bleeds from the population.

            The NHS is also in a position to negotiate prices directly with pharma companies (something that will be outlawed in the even of a a trade deal with the US post Brexit).

            But our system isn’t ‘free’. It’s taxpayer funded and free at the point of use. The system is currently being bled dry by a huge transfer of wealth from the public to the private realm (as has been the direction of travel for decades) through PFI/PPP contracts which are an absolute scam for the enrichment of private equity funds. And the NHS has been softened up for privatisation for years – and not for the good of the people. Majella could tell you that too because she watched the video I posted (a film made by doctors), which I presume you didn’t.

            There are other European countries that manage a balance of the two systems.

            The system Majella describes in NZ sounds pretty good to me. Nobody else puts up with what the US puts up with in terms of healthcare. All in the name of ideology.

          • GreenAlba June 13, 2019 at 8:12 am #

            in the *event*…

          • GreenAlba June 13, 2019 at 8:14 am #

            benr

            “and like it or not the military does provide a return on investment. ”

            Are you measuring that in barrels, out of interest?

          • benr June 14, 2019 at 9:15 am #

            @ga
            In barrels that is one measure or global stability and regional stability, jobs, research and development.
            Plus it gives the anti-America hate the military crowd something to whine about rather pay people to man a post then their couch waiting for a welfare check.

    • Tate June 10, 2019 at 10:29 am #

      Lol. All you had to do was read the first sentence to know that “Jon Wiener,” author of that article, was then & probably still is, clueless.

      “Political science tells us that…” & then goes on to conflate polysci with statistical sampling. Actually, they’re two separate subjects, Jon.

      No, don’t expect any hair-shirt wearing by Jon & the jolly journo’s at The Nation.

    • This is a dumb analysis. For one thing, the contest was very close. Second, polling is a science (subset of statistics). These pros will apply scientific methodology to improve accuracy.

    • TraffickingInDivinity June 10, 2019 at 5:29 pm #

      Polls are total BS – Trump and Brexit are proof of that. They are meant to change elections, not predict them.

    • Anon1970 June 10, 2019 at 8:11 pm #

      Many people no longer take calls from people or phone numbers they don’t recognize, including pollsters.

      I do remember Davy Crockett and Duvid Crockett, the Yiddish recorded version made popular by Mickey Katz, who was the father of actor Joel Grey.

      For millions of Americans, the US in the 1950’s was not exactly the land of milk and honey. Schools that catered to black children were separate and inferior. In 1953, President Eisenhower signed an executive order that called for the firing of gay Federal employees. I just learned about this particular order yesterday from CBS Sunday Morning. You can read about it here: cbsnews.com/news/the-lavender-scare-how-the-federal-government-purged-gay-employees/

      Some 65 years later, I am enjoying a much higher standard of living than I did in the 1950’s.

    • EvelynV June 12, 2019 at 10:43 am #

      I agree polls are faulty gauges of political reality if precision is what you are after. Ditto for their accuracy as well. Nevertheless if such a contemptible candidate as Hillary was able to nevertheless manage to win the popular vote as polls suggested, what chance does the golden cockatoo have when polls suggest he will lose by a landslide?

      My hope and expectation is that once the primaries begin Biden will be weeded out and someone with wide appeal with the young generation will come to the fore.

      After that Trump begins to give serious consideration to what kind of deals he can make to escape prosecution for all of his non-presidential criminal activity that he will be forced to deal with when the scepter is taken away.

  2. 450.org June 10, 2019 at 10:12 am #

    Another case in point. There are so many. If you search long enough, and trust me you won’t have to search long, you can find a poll to support your misperception so ubiquitous they are.

    Trump is Popping in the Polls

    • EvelynV June 12, 2019 at 10:49 am #

      If that kaka website is what you are forced to base your case on it just shows how desperate you are.

      • EvelynV June 12, 2019 at 10:52 am #

        Quinnipiac University Poll. June 6-10, 2019. N=1,214 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.5.

        “If the election for president were being held today, and the candidates were [see below] the Democrat and Donald Trump the Republican, for whom would you vote?”

        Donald
        Trump (R) Joe
        Biden (D) Someone
        else (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure/
        No answer
        % % % % %

        6/6-10/19

        40 53 1 2 4

        Donald
        Trump (R) Bernie
        Sanders (D) Someone
        else (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure/
        No answer
        % % % % %

        6/6-10/19

        42 51 1 2 4

        Donald
        Trump (R) Elizabeth
        Warren (D) Someone
        else (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure/
        No answer
        % % % % %

        6/6-10/19

        42 49 1 3 5

        Donald
        Trump (R) Kamala
        Harris (D) Someone
        else (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure/
        No answer
        % % % % %

        6/6-10/19

        41 49 1 2 6

        Donald
        Trump (R) Pete
        Buttigieg (D) Someone
        else (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure/
        No answer
        % % % % %

        6/6-10/19

        42 47 1 3 7

        Donald
        Trump (R) Cory
        Booker (D) Someone
        else (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure/
        No answer
        % % % % %

        6/6-10/19

        42 47 1 3 7

        NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist Poll. May 31-June 4, 2019. N=783 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 5.

        “Thinking about the 2020 election, do you definitely plan to vote for Donald Trump for reelection as president or do you definitely plan to vote against him?”

        Definitely
        for Trump Definitely
        against him Unsure
        % % %

        5/31 – 6/4/19

        36 51 13

        4/24-29/19

        33 54 12

        3/25-27/19

        35 54 11

        1/10-13/19

        30 57 13

        Monmouth University Poll. May 16-20, 2019. N=719 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.7.

        “Looking ahead to the 2020 election for president, do you think that Donald Trump should be reelected, or do you think that it is time to have someone else in office?”

        Should be
        reelected Time for
        someone else Unsure
        % % %

        5/16-20/19

        37 60 4

        3/1-4/19

        38 57 5

        1/25-27/19

        38 57 5

        11/9-12/18

        37 58 4

        Quinnipiac University Poll. May 16-20, 2019. N=1,078 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.7.

        “In the 2020 general election for president, if Donald Trump is the Republican candidate, would you definitely vote for him, consider voting for him, or would you definitely not vote for him?”

        Definitely
        vote for Consider
        voting for Definitely
        not vote for Unsure/
        No answer
        % % % %

        5/16-20/19

        31 12 54 3

        4/26-29/19

        33 13 52 2

        3/21-25/19

        30 13 53 3

        Fox News Poll conducted by Beacon Research (D) and Shaw & Company Research (R). May 11-14, 2019. N=1,008 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.

        “If the 2020 presidential election were held today, would you definitely vote to reelect Donald Trump, probably vote to reelect Trump, probably vote for someone else, or definitely vote for someone else?”

        Definitely/
        Probably vote
        to reelect
        Trump Probably/
        Definitely vote
        for someone
        else Too soon
        to say
        (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure
        % % % % %

        5/11-14/19

        38 54 5 2 2

        12/9-11/18

        38 55 5 1 2

        1/21-23/18

        35 56 8 1 1

        4/23-25/17

        36 55 5 – 3

        “If the 2020 presidential election were held today, how would you vote if the candidates were Democrat Joe Biden and Republican Donald Trump?” If unsure: “Well, which way do you lean?” Options rotated

        Donald
        Trump (R) Joe
        Biden (D) Other
        (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure
        % % % % %

        5/11-14/19

        38 49 5 3 5

        3/17-20/19

        40 47 4 3 5

        “How would you vote if the candidates were Democrat Bernie Sanders and Republican Donald Trump?” If unsure: “Well, which way do you lean?” Options rotated

        Donald
        Trump (R) Bernie
        Sanders (D) Other
        (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure
        % % % % %

        5/11-14/19

        41 46 5 3 5

        3/17-20/19

        41 44 6 3 5

        “How would you vote if the candidates were Democrat Kamala Harris and Republican Donald Trump?” If unsure: “Well, which way do you lean?” Options rotated

        Donald
        Trump (R) Kamala
        Harris (D) Other
        (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure
        % % % % %

        5/11-14/19

        41 41 7 4 8

        3/17-20/19

        41 39 7 4 9

        “How would you vote if the candidates were Democrat Elizabeth Warren and Republican Donald Trump?” If unsure: “Well, which way do you lean?” Options rotated

        Donald
        Trump (R) Elizabeth
        Warren (D) Other
        (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure
        % % % % %

        5/11-14/19

        41 43 6 4 6

        3/17-20/19

        42 40 7 4 8

        “How would you vote if the candidates were Democrat Pete Buttigieg and Republican Donald Trump?” If unsure: “Well, which way do you lean?” Options rotated

        Donald
        Trump (R) Pete
        Buttigieg (D) Other
        (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure
        % % % % %

        5/11-14/19

        41 40 7 4 8

        CNN Poll conducted by SSRS. April 25-28, 2019. Registered voters nationwide.

        “If Bernie Sanders were the Democratic Party’s candidate and Donald Trump were the Republican Party’s candidate, for whom would you be more likely to vote?” N=456; margin of error ± 5.6

        Donald
        Trump (R) Bernie
        Sanders (D) Other
        (vol.) Neither
        (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        4/25-28/19

        44 50 0 4 2

        “If Joe Biden were the Democratic Party’s candidate and Donald Trump were the Republican Party’s candidate, for whom would you be more likely to vote?” N=470; margin of error ± 5.5

        Donald
        Trump (R) Joe
        Biden (D) Other
        (vol.) Neither
        (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        4/25-28/19

        45 51 – 1 2

        “If Pete Buttigieg were the Democratic Party’s candidate and Donald Trump were the Republican Party’s candidate, for whom would you be more likely to vote?” N=439; margin of error ± 5.7

        Donald
        Trump (R) Pete
        Buttigieg (D) Other
        (vol.) Neither
        (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        4/25-28/19

        44 47 1 2 6

        “If Kamala Harris were the Democratic Party’s candidate and Donald Trump were the Republican Party’s candidate, for whom would you be more likely to vote?” N=453; margin of error ± 5.5

        Donald
        Trump (R) Kamala
        Harris (D) Other
        (vol.) Neither
        (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        4/25-28/19

        45 49 0 3 3

        “If Elizabeth Warren were the Democratic Party’s candidate and Donald Trump were the Republican Party’s candidate, for whom would you be more likely to vote?” N=452; margin of error ± 5.6

        Donald
        Trump (R) Elizabeth
        Warren (D) Other
        (vol.) Neither
        (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        4/25-28/19

        48 47 0 2 3

        “If Beto O’Rourke were the Democratic Party’s candidate and Donald Trump were the Republican Party’s candidate, for whom would you be more likely to vote?” N=469; margin of error ± 5.5

        Donald
        Trump (R) Beto
        O’Rourke (D) Other
        (vol.) Neither
        (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        4/25-28/19

        42 52 – 2 4

        ABC News/Washington Post Poll. April 22-25, 2019. N=865 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 4.

        “Assuming Trump is the Republican candidate for president in 2020, would you definitely vote for him, would you consider voting for him, or would you definitely not vote for him?”

        Definitely
        for Trump Consider
        Trump Definitely
        not Trump Unsure
        % % % %

        4/22-25/19

        30 14 52 3

        1/21-24/19

        28 14 56 1

        Georgetown Institute of Politics and Public Service Battleground Poll conducted by the Tarrance Group (R) and Lake Research Partners (D). March 31-April 4, 2019. N=1,000 likely voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.1.

        “Now thinking ahead to the election for president that will be held in November 2020, do you think Donald Trump has performed his job as president well enough to deserve reelection, or do you think it’s time to give a new person a chance?”

        Trump
        deserves
        reelection Time to give
        new person
        a chance Unsure
        % % %

        3/31 – 4/4/19

        38 57 5

        Suffolk University/USA Today Poll. March 13-17, 2019. N=1,000 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.

        “If the 2020 presidential election were held today, would you vote for President Trump, the Democratic nominee, or a third party candidate?”

        President
        Trump Democratic
        nominee Third party
        candidate Unsure Refused
        % % % % %

        3/13-17/19

        39 36 11 14 1

        NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll conducted by Hart Research Associates (D) and Public Opinion Strategies (R). Feb. 24-27, 2019. N=720 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.7.

        “Looking ahead to the next election for president, if Donald Trump runs for reelection as the Republican candidate, will you definitely vote for Trump in that election, probably vote for Trump, probably vote for the Democratic candidate, or definitely vote for the Democratic candidate?”

        2/24-27/19 12/9-12/18 12/13-15/17
        % % %

        Definitely Trump

        27 23 18

        Probably Trump

        14 15 18

        Probably Democrat

        15 13 14

        Definitely Democrat

        33 39 38

        Someone else (vol.)

        2 2 n/a

        Depends (vol.)

        5 3 4

        Neither (vol.)

        1 2 3

        Unsure

        3 3 5

        Wason Center for Public Policy Survey Research Lab at Christopher Newport University. Feb. 3-17, 2019. N=1,001 likely voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.2.

        “If the 2020 presidential election were held today, would you vote for the incumbent president, Republican Donald Trump, or for the Democrat running against him?”

        Trump Democrat Someone
        else (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % %

        2/3-17/19

        37 48 5 9

        “And if instead the choices were the incumbent president, Republican Donald Trump, the Democratic Party’s nominee, or a candidate running on an independent ticket, for whom would you vote?”

        Trump Democrat Independent
        candidate Someone
        else (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        2/3-17/19

        34 32 16 1 17

        CNN Poll conducted by SSRS. Jan. 30-Feb. 2, 2019. N=1,011 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.8.

        “I’m going to read you the names of a few people who are running or may run for president in 2020. For each one, please tell me whether you would be very likely, somewhat likely, not too likely, or not likely at all to support them if they decide to run in 2020. …”

        Very/Some-
        what likely Not too/Not
        at all likely Unsure/
        Refused
        % % %

        “Former vice president Joe Biden”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        50 47 4

        “President Donald Trump”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        41 58 1

        “Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        41 54 5

        “California Senator Kamala Harris”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        38 51 11

        “Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        36 56 8

        “New Jersey Senator Cory Booker”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        29 55 15

        “Former Texas congressman Beto O’Rourke”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        29 56 15

        “Former New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        27 65 8

        “New York Senator Kirsten Gillibrand”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        22 63 16

        “Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        21 55 24

        “Businessman Howard Schultz”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        20 66 14

        Fox News Poll conducted by Anderson Robbins Research (D) and Shaw & Company Research (R). Dec. 9-11, 2018. N=1,006 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.

        “Just your best guess: As of today, do you think Donald Trump will be reelected president in 2020, or not?”

        Think he
        will be Don’t think
        he will be Unsure
        % % %

        12/9-11/18

        39 52 9

        CNN Poll conducted by SSRS. Dec. 6-9, 2018. N=1,015 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.8.

        “As you may have heard, Donald Trump has decided to run for reelection. Please just give me your best guess: Do you think he will win the presidential election in 2020, or do you think he will lose?”

        Think he
        will win Think he
        will lose Unsure/
        Refused
        % % %

        12/6-9/18

        43 51 6

        10/4-7/18

        46 47 7

        3/22-25/18

        40 54 6

        Grinnell College National Poll conducted by Selzer & Co. Nov. 24-27, 2018. N=828 likely voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.4.

        “If a vote for president of the United States were held today, would you definitely vote to reelect President Trump, consider someone else, or definitely vote to elect someone else, or would you not vote?”

        Definitely
        Trump Consider
        someone else Definitely
        someone else Would
        not vote Unsure
        % % % % %

        11/24-27/18

        35 17 45 1 3

        8/29 – 9/2/18

        36 17 43 – 3

        Gallup Poll. Oct. 15-28, 2018. N=902 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 4.

        “Please tell me whether you think each of the following political office-holders deserves to be reelected, or not. … How about President Trump?”

        Deserves to
        be reelected Does not
        deserve Unsure
        % % %

        10/15-28/18

        41 56 3

        4/9-15/18

        37 59 3

        CNN Poll conducted by SSRS. Jan. 14-15 & 17-18, 2018. N=913 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.8.

        “I know it’s a long way off, but thinking about the election for president that will happen in 2020, if [see below] were the Democratic Party’s candidate and Donald Trump were the Republican Party’s candidate, who would you be more likely to vote for: [see below]?” If unsure: “As of today, do you lean more toward [see below]?”

        Donald
        Trump (R) Bernie
        Sanders (D) Other
        (vol.) Neither
        (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        1/14-15, 17-18/18

        42 55 1 2 1

        Donald
        Trump (R) Oprah
        Winfrey (D) Other
        (vol.) Neither
        (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        1/14-15, 17-18/18

        42 51 2 3 1

        Donald
        Trump (R) Joe
        Biden (D) Other
        (vol.) Neither
        (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        1/14-15, 17-18/18

        40 57 1 1 1

        Quinnipiac University Poll. Jan. 12-16, 2018. N=1,212 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.4.

        “Would you be inclined to vote to reelect Donald Trump as president, or not?”

        Inclined Not
        inclined Unsure/
        No answer
        % % %

        1/12-16/18

        34 62 3

        “If the presidential election were being held today, and the candidates were Oprah Winfrey the Democrat and Donald Trump the Republican, for whom would you vote?”

        Donald
        Trump (R) Oprah
        Winfrey (D) Neither
        (vol.) Someone
        else (vol.) Unsure/
        No answer
        % % % % %

        1/12-16/18

        39 52 4 2 4

        NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist Poll. Jan. 8-10, 2018. N=1,092 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.

        “Do you want Oprah Winfrey to run for president in 2020, or not?”

        Want
        her to run Don’t want
        her to run Unsure
        % % %

        ALL

        33 56 11

        Democrats

        47 40 13

        Republicans

        15 77 7

        Independents

        32 56 12

        “If the 2020 election for president were held today, whom would you support if the candidates are Oprah Winfrey, the Democrat, and Donald Trump, the Republican?”

        Donald
        Trump (R) Oprah
        Winfrey (D) Unsure
        % % %

        ALL

        39 50 11

        Democrats

        4 91 6

        Republicans

        85 8 6

        Independents

        37 46 17

        CNN Poll conducted by SSRS. Nov. 2-5, 2017. N=1,021 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.6.

        “Please tell me whether you think each of the following political officeholders deserves to be reelected or not. … How about Donald Trump?”

        Deserves to
        be reelected Does not Unsure/
        Refused
        % % %

        11/2-5/17

        33 63 4

        Democrats

        4 94 2

        Independents

        30 64 6

        Republicans

        80 17 3

        9/17-20/17

        33 61 6

        Democrats

        7 91 1

        Independents

        28 64 8

        Republicans

        76 18 6

        Among registered voters:

        11/2-5/17

        35 62 4

        9/17-20/17

        35 59 6

        Quinnipiac University Poll. March 2-6, 2017. N=1,283 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 2.7.

        “Do you want Oprah Winfrey to run for president in the 2020 election, or not?”

        Want
        her to run Don’t want
        her to run Unsure/
        No answer
        % % %

        ALL

        21 69 10

        Republicans

        11 82 7

        Democrats

        32 56 11

        Independents

        19 70 11

  3. Neon Vincent June 10, 2019 at 10:14 am #

    “America performed splendidly in World War Two, rescuing Europe and Asia from manifest evil” – That reminds me that last Thursday was the 75th Anniversary of D-Day. Time to reflect on when the U.S. was at the peak of its power and used it for good.

    “[T]he slow, demoralizing dismantling of the very industry that made the 20th century America’s moment in history” — Andrew Yang thinks universal basic income is the solution to automation and deindustrialization. That’s a science-fiction solution to a science-fiction problem. Of course, that assumes that business as usual will continue, not an assumption most of the readers of this blog share.

    • Ol' Scratch June 10, 2019 at 10:35 am #

      The US was primarily patient and played its cards right. If there had been no Russian front there would have been no allied landing and things would have turned out very differently indeed. The US and UK were using the Russians right from the start, as Stalin was always viewed as a far greater threat than Hitler. Fortunately for them, Hitler was just dumb and egotistical enough to play along.

    • Tate June 10, 2019 at 10:46 am #

      Count me among the “most hardened cynics” among the Boomers. There will always be a diehard remnant however of the “most credulous fantasists” although the mood is certainly swinging toward a general cynicism. We approach the elephant at our hazard because sometimes it’s just better to remain ignorant.

      Many of the myths really die hard. How many here question, for example, that shining moment in our history: the Greatest Generation, our role & motives in World War II? I don’t question that Hitler had to be defeated once events came to a head, just the recasting of this conflict as some great moral crusade. That came much later, the historical recasting, if you weren’t aware.

      • elysianfield June 10, 2019 at 4:46 pm #

        “Many of the myths really die hard. How many here question, for example, that shining moment in our history: the Greatest Generation,”

        Tate,
        They were the Greatest Generation” because they sucked up their angst and self interests, were sent to war and did as they were told…and like the Russians and the Germans, they did it well….

        • Tate June 10, 2019 at 5:52 pm #

          You’re right. It’s a convenient placeholder but the ordinary men (& women) who served were dupes of those who engineered the conflict. I didn’t mean to denigrate their effort.

          • GreenAlba June 11, 2019 at 5:39 am #

            3.5 million remaining European Jews were grateful for them being ‘duped’.

            You are shameless. Believing you’ll be called to account one day for your words, actions and the younger, more innocent minds you infect makes you even more so.

          • Tate June 11, 2019 at 10:22 am #

            Oh, I have no delusions about the power I’m up against in ‘infecting young innocent minds.’ It’s probably a fool’s errand. I’m probably putting myself at serious risk (within this lifetime, not the next) by voicing any skeptism of certain received ‘truths’ that you & other of the good-thinkers (or NPCs, take your pick) blindly adhere to.

          • Tate June 11, 2019 at 10:24 am #

            *skepticism”. Yeah.

          • GreenAlba June 11, 2019 at 10:31 am #

            Tate. He’s listening.

          • GreenAlba June 11, 2019 at 10:32 am #

            And He saw it all, didn’t He? Careful.

          • Tate June 11, 2019 at 2:23 pm #

            And by ‘denigrate’ I wasn’t referring to negroes (polite Southerners used to say ‘nigra’ instead of ‘negro.’) They’ve been duped where they’re most susceptible by their own kind like Mad Maxine & the ever-present powers that pull her strings.

          • Elrond Hubbard June 13, 2019 at 11:26 am #

            Tate: given that you’re clearly hinting at Holocaust denial, you’re certainly putting yourself at risk of getting banned by JHK.

            He’s generally committed to freedom of speech, but on this matter he drops the banhammer without a second thought.

          • Tate June 13, 2019 at 3:36 pm #

            I can’t speak for JHK. I think your program needs an update though. If you haven’t been aware, just look around going back, oh I don’t know, months. Maybe he’s curious too. Just a theory. It’s not denial to question the details of a narrative.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. 450.org June 10, 2019 at 10:06 am #

    Polls are propaganda. Polls are manipulative. They’re meant to maipulate perception and shape perspective. Honest, objective journalism should never reference polls. Polls are not information to support a point unless your point is that polls are manipulating propaganda.

    Check out this article from The Nation published prior to the 2016 presidential campaign. Was this blubbering buffoon, this apocryphal apparatchik, forced to eat his words and wear the hair shirt for the entirety of Donald Trump’s tenure as POTUS? If not, why not? Where is the accountability for such ribald rubbish?

    When I see polls about Trump’s approval ratings, I laugh and spit at the television or the radio and tell it/them to fuck off. You should to if you have half a brain or even quarter of a brain. Same goes for the polls showing Biden as the most popular Democratic candidate. These polls are not meant to inform you, they’re meant to persuade or dissuade you. They’re meant to shape your perception. They’re meant to make you misperceive our reality. Ignore them and spurn & repudiate those who report on them, and we’ll all be better off.

    Are Hillary Clinton’s Strong Poll Numbers Misleading?

    So for all the hand-wringing over the polls, maybe the best way to predict the results in November is not to discount the polls. Instead, maybe we should rely less on the pundits who say the polls could be wrong, and more on the polls themselves, which have been pretty accurate about Trump’s support so far this election season. Of course things could change in the next 90 days, but the polls right now are clear: Our next president is Hillary Clinton.

      • hmuller June 10, 2019 at 10:50 am #

        My polls show the Dems in 2020 will go down to the most resounding defeat since the Afghan Olympic Women’s Swim Team all drowned in their burqa’s.

        • DrTomSchmidt June 10, 2019 at 11:11 am #

          Trump hasn’t done much for Michigan, PA, or Wisconsin, and those three critical defections from the D column helped put him over the top. Take away the 46 electoral votes from those three and Trump loses.

          Where will he gain votes to offset that?

          • Tate June 10, 2019 at 11:19 am #

            Trump doesn’t have to win. All it takes is for the Dems to lose which it looks like they are trying to do. Of course, if the economy implodes between now & the election, then let’s recalculate the odds.

        • gonetohell June 10, 2019 at 5:12 pm #

          Stop taking polls at the family reunion.

      • shotho June 10, 2019 at 11:08 am #

        And this statement reflects the point that the author of this blog seemed to be making. We are now so non-responsive to reality that we think propaganda, a la polls, is now what really matters. We’ve lost the way that made America dominant (whether or not it should have ever been is another question) and its not to be found again; at least, not in that configuration.
        I like that Kunstler does mention that the world is not necessarily ending (we don’t have any real say in that), but that the future is now cloudy. My own belief is that the two world wars of the twentieth century was the coup de grace for Western civilization, regardless of who is supposed to have won. There is no undoing of the incredible damage from those events and I don’t mean only material damage. There seems nothing for westerners to believe now except buy and possess. Those values do not a civilization make.

        • Janos Skorenzy June 10, 2019 at 12:56 pm #

          After the WW2, the new Elite started calling White Americans, Nazis even though we helped them defeat the Nazis. So obviously we lost every bit as much as the Nazis did. After the death of Kennedy, these efforts intensified. Now Whites are third class citizens behind every non-White who enters America legally or illegally.

          • shotho June 10, 2019 at 1:27 pm #

            Whites are still in charge of most of the levers of power in the West, but, yes, that is changing. It’s what our host is calling a turn. There has never been any certainty that whites would permanently dominate the world.
            Agreed that the death of JFK was symbolic of the death of more than one man.

          • Janos Skorenzy June 10, 2019 at 6:23 pm #

            But it is guaranteed that we will disappear if things don’t change. Our Ruling Class has simply no loyalty to us at all – and thus do they wrong us. And we always hate those whom we have wronged so they hate us as well, a hatred commensurate with their total betrayal of us.

            Needless to say they don’t represent us in any way, shape, or form. Trump pretended to and then betrayed us.

        • SpeedyBB June 11, 2019 at 6:35 pm #

          shotho states: ‘…My own belief is that the two world wars of the twentieth century was the coup de grace for Western civilization, regardless of who is supposed to have won…

          Now that’s a very intriguing and thought-provoking supposition. This type of statement is one reason why the Comments section of Jim Kunstler’s twice-weekly blog is so insightful, and worth reading.

          You’ve got me to a-thinking. Rare stimulus.

      • chipshot June 10, 2019 at 3:29 pm #

        Think you’re on the money, 450. I don’t believe for a second Biden is ahead of Bernie.

        If the DNC and msm stay neutral, Bernie will be our next president.

        • Majella June 10, 2019 at 7:07 pm #

          Agreed. 450 is correct – modern day ‘polls’ are manipulative, and lucrative for those in the business.

          Social polling on any useable scale only arose once the telephone provided mass communication. Initially, they were reflective of actual reality at any given time, the demise of the ubiquitous telephone landline has thrown them all to hell, along with the cynicism of the populace at large that means many will simply lie for the fun of it.

        • Uncle Bob June 10, 2019 at 10:46 pm #

          If any of the 24 (and counting) mental midgets who comprise the field of Dem presidential candidates win, that will end America, either as the AOC’s of the world swarm over Washington as the victorious communists swarmed over the Winter Palace when the Romanovs were deposed or in a full-blown civil war that will make the fun times of the 1860s look like an ice cream social. I didn’t support Trump in 2016, but I basically have to now because the alternative is beyond horrifying. “But free shit! The crazy bastard from Vermont promises to give us everything — money, medical care, education, an end to any environmental threats, total equality — paradise! Who wouldn’t want that?” Who indeed — except maybe Venezuelans, Chinese, Vietnamese and former residents of the Soviet bloc who have endured other “paradises.” He careful what you wish for, in other words, because you might get it, and lose your ass in the process.

          • chipshot June 11, 2019 at 8:52 am #

            Foxist alert!
            Uncle Bob has been brainwashed by the Murdoch agenda.

            You know, ideas like we can’t afford Med for All or tuition-free higher ed, or an infra-stucture building jobs program or a transition to greener energy, but $800,000,000,000 for the Pentagon every year, no problem.

          • benr June 11, 2019 at 10:13 am #

            @chipshot

            Tell me were in our system of government it says everyone should have free (to them) medical, college or this catch all phrase of green energy?

            Talk about group think and brainwashed idiocy.
            Do you have ANY concept of what it takes to pay for all that crap and like it or not the military does provide a return on investment. Do you thin you wave a pixy dust wand and poof the money to pay for all that crap magically appears?
            Ever hear of the Weimar Republic sunshine?
            You might actually want to put a little Fox in your life or Mark Levin, Andrew Wilcow, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Alex Jones, Glenn Beck, G Gordon Liddy, Actually just about anyone but who you have been subverted by.

          • chipshot June 11, 2019 at 1:08 pm #

            Hard pass, benr. Obvious by your reply how toxic those sources are.

          • benr June 11, 2019 at 2:25 pm #

            @chipshot

            ROTFLOL
            You utter toxic and want all the freebies talk about toxic you have been absorbing the sewer pipe of ideas.

          • Majella June 11, 2019 at 6:56 pm #

            Uncle Bob

            Hey, don’t give up! Trump is a joke president and will again still be a joke candidate in Nov 2020 – if he makes it that far.

            You seem to have succumbed to all the BS the right constantly trots out about the progressive agenda being all about ‘free shit’ and ‘rainbows & unicorns’, and then flip to Venezuela as the ‘See? ??? I told ya” exemplar.

            Use your logic. Look at countries where they don’t suffer this tribalism-driven rabidity and just get on with it, where the wealth of society is more fairly distributed. You know, like the US between 1933 and 1980, the ‘Golden Years’ so longed for by the reversionary conservatives.

          • EvelynV June 11, 2019 at 8:16 pm #

            Compared to now most of all that used to be virtually free. A broken arm didn’t cost a year of pay, college was vastly more affordable. Movie actresses didn’t make $100,000,000 for making a single film.

            The money to pay for everything exists but it exists in the pockets of a very few people.

          • benr June 11, 2019 at 8:43 pm #

            Why does everyone wanting free crap under the banner of Socialism always not think things through?

            Why do you think Health care has become so ridiculous?

            Answer:
            Lawyers
            Regulations
            Government got involved.
            Education got so expensive….Why?
            Once again government got involved.
            Now ask yourself what is government actually good at?
            Waste…check!
            Taxing us into oblivion…Check
            Not much else and yet your answer is more government?

            Let me ask a question if you have splinter is the answer to give yourself another splinter?
            Or maybe just smash your thumb with hammer so you forget the annoyance of the splinter.

            Amazing.

            Yea the Donald is a poor choice the Democrats are even worse choices and Bernie who got booted from a hippie commune and never worked a real job in his life is your answer?

            Bernie is a moron.

          • benr June 11, 2019 at 8:45 pm #

            @majella

            So tell us which country that you want the US to be like.
            No wait how about you just move there and leave the rest of us in peace.
            See how easy that is?

          • Majella June 12, 2019 at 6:10 pm #

            benr

            I’m not a Brit, but I’m also not American, though I’ve lived here for over 20 years, and currently in Northern California for some time (married to an American).

            Don’t worry – you’ll get your wish before long. Once my Other Half retires, we’re certainly off to my homeland (sooner, especially if the Clown President gets re-elected), a South Seas Paradise, where education & healthcare is tax-payer funded and the top rate of income tax is less than the US (at 33%).

            In the meantime, and even afterward, I have as much a right to observe and comment on world affairs as anyone else here, regardless of whether you like it or not. And don’t kid yourself, the rest of the planet is keenly & legitimately interested in what the US President does, like a drunk uncle at Thanksgiving, stumbling into furniture & spewing hateful & almost incomprehensible word salad at everyone regardless.

          • GreenAlba June 13, 2019 at 7:20 am #

            benr

            “Why do you think Health care has become so ridiculous?

            Answer:
            Lawyers
            Regulations
            Government got involved.”

            The UK government got involved in healthcare in 1948 by creating the NHS. Prior to that poor people didn’t get healthcare – they just died a lot sooner than less poor people and left families bereft. (The poorest still die sooner than wealthy people but not nearly as early as they did then.)

            Our system is underfunded. It manages on about 9 percent of GDP, while yours costs twice that because it has to feed layers of parasites, like insurance companies, in addition to paying for actual healthcare. And, as you’d expect, its health outcomes are not remotely proportional to the extra cost it bleeds from the population.

            The NHS is also in a position to negotiate prices directly with pharma companies (something that will be outlawed in the even of a a trade deal with the US post Brexit).

            But our system isn’t ‘free’. It’s taxpayer funded and free at the point of use. The system is currently being bled dry by a huge transfer of wealth from the public to the private realm (as has been the direction of travel for decades) through PFI/PPP contracts which are an absolute scam for the enrichment of private equity funds. And the NHS has been softened up for privatisation for years – and not for the good of the people. Majella could tell you that too because she watched the video I posted (a film made by doctors), which I presume you didn’t.

            There are other European countries that manage a balance of the two systems.

            The system Majella describes in NZ sounds pretty good to me. Nobody else puts up with what the US puts up with in terms of healthcare. All in the name of ideology.

          • GreenAlba June 13, 2019 at 8:12 am #

            in the *event*…

          • GreenAlba June 13, 2019 at 8:14 am #

            benr

            “and like it or not the military does provide a return on investment. ”

            Are you measuring that in barrels, out of interest?

          • benr June 14, 2019 at 9:15 am #

            @ga
            In barrels that is one measure or global stability and regional stability, jobs, research and development.
            Plus it gives the anti-America hate the military crowd something to whine about rather pay people to man a post then their couch waiting for a welfare check.

    • Tate June 10, 2019 at 10:29 am #

      Lol. All you had to do was read the first sentence to know that “Jon Wiener,” author of that article, was then & probably still is, clueless.

      “Political science tells us that…” & then goes on to conflate polysci with statistical sampling. Actually, they’re two separate subjects, Jon.

      No, don’t expect any hair-shirt wearing by Jon & the jolly journo’s at The Nation.

    • This is a dumb analysis. For one thing, the contest was very close. Second, polling is a science (subset of statistics). These pros will apply scientific methodology to improve accuracy.

    • TraffickingInDivinity June 10, 2019 at 5:29 pm #

      Polls are total BS – Trump and Brexit are proof of that. They are meant to change elections, not predict them.

    • Anon1970 June 10, 2019 at 8:11 pm #

      Many people no longer take calls from people or phone numbers they don’t recognize, including pollsters.

      I do remember Davy Crockett and Duvid Crockett, the Yiddish recorded version made popular by Mickey Katz, who was the father of actor Joel Grey.

      For millions of Americans, the US in the 1950’s was not exactly the land of milk and honey. Schools that catered to black children were separate and inferior. In 1953, President Eisenhower signed an executive order that called for the firing of gay Federal employees. I just learned about this particular order yesterday from CBS Sunday Morning. You can read about it here: cbsnews.com/news/the-lavender-scare-how-the-federal-government-purged-gay-employees/

      Some 65 years later, I am enjoying a much higher standard of living than I did in the 1950’s.

    • EvelynV June 12, 2019 at 10:43 am #

      I agree polls are faulty gauges of political reality if precision is what you are after. Ditto for their accuracy as well. Nevertheless if such a contemptible candidate as Hillary was able to nevertheless manage to win the popular vote as polls suggested, what chance does the golden cockatoo have when polls suggest he will lose by a landslide?

      My hope and expectation is that once the primaries begin Biden will be weeded out and someone with wide appeal with the young generation will come to the fore.

      After that Trump begins to give serious consideration to what kind of deals he can make to escape prosecution for all of his non-presidential criminal activity that he will be forced to deal with when the scepter is taken away.

  2. 450.org June 10, 2019 at 10:12 am #

    Another case in point. There are so many. If you search long enough, and trust me you won’t have to search long, you can find a poll to support your misperception so ubiquitous they are.

    Trump is Popping in the Polls

    • EvelynV June 12, 2019 at 10:49 am #

      If that kaka website is what you are forced to base your case on it just shows how desperate you are.

      • EvelynV June 12, 2019 at 10:52 am #

        Quinnipiac University Poll. June 6-10, 2019. N=1,214 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.5.

        “If the election for president were being held today, and the candidates were [see below] the Democrat and Donald Trump the Republican, for whom would you vote?”

        Donald
        Trump (R) Joe
        Biden (D) Someone
        else (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure/
        No answer
        % % % % %

        6/6-10/19

        40 53 1 2 4

        Donald
        Trump (R) Bernie
        Sanders (D) Someone
        else (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure/
        No answer
        % % % % %

        6/6-10/19

        42 51 1 2 4

        Donald
        Trump (R) Elizabeth
        Warren (D) Someone
        else (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure/
        No answer
        % % % % %

        6/6-10/19

        42 49 1 3 5

        Donald
        Trump (R) Kamala
        Harris (D) Someone
        else (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure/
        No answer
        % % % % %

        6/6-10/19

        41 49 1 2 6

        Donald
        Trump (R) Pete
        Buttigieg (D) Someone
        else (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure/
        No answer
        % % % % %

        6/6-10/19

        42 47 1 3 7

        Donald
        Trump (R) Cory
        Booker (D) Someone
        else (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure/
        No answer
        % % % % %

        6/6-10/19

        42 47 1 3 7

        NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist Poll. May 31-June 4, 2019. N=783 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 5.

        “Thinking about the 2020 election, do you definitely plan to vote for Donald Trump for reelection as president or do you definitely plan to vote against him?”

        Definitely
        for Trump Definitely
        against him Unsure
        % % %

        5/31 – 6/4/19

        36 51 13

        4/24-29/19

        33 54 12

        3/25-27/19

        35 54 11

        1/10-13/19

        30 57 13

        Monmouth University Poll. May 16-20, 2019. N=719 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.7.

        “Looking ahead to the 2020 election for president, do you think that Donald Trump should be reelected, or do you think that it is time to have someone else in office?”

        Should be
        reelected Time for
        someone else Unsure
        % % %

        5/16-20/19

        37 60 4

        3/1-4/19

        38 57 5

        1/25-27/19

        38 57 5

        11/9-12/18

        37 58 4

        Quinnipiac University Poll. May 16-20, 2019. N=1,078 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.7.

        “In the 2020 general election for president, if Donald Trump is the Republican candidate, would you definitely vote for him, consider voting for him, or would you definitely not vote for him?”

        Definitely
        vote for Consider
        voting for Definitely
        not vote for Unsure/
        No answer
        % % % %

        5/16-20/19

        31 12 54 3

        4/26-29/19

        33 13 52 2

        3/21-25/19

        30 13 53 3

        Fox News Poll conducted by Beacon Research (D) and Shaw & Company Research (R). May 11-14, 2019. N=1,008 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.

        “If the 2020 presidential election were held today, would you definitely vote to reelect Donald Trump, probably vote to reelect Trump, probably vote for someone else, or definitely vote for someone else?”

        Definitely/
        Probably vote
        to reelect
        Trump Probably/
        Definitely vote
        for someone
        else Too soon
        to say
        (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure
        % % % % %

        5/11-14/19

        38 54 5 2 2

        12/9-11/18

        38 55 5 1 2

        1/21-23/18

        35 56 8 1 1

        4/23-25/17

        36 55 5 – 3

        “If the 2020 presidential election were held today, how would you vote if the candidates were Democrat Joe Biden and Republican Donald Trump?” If unsure: “Well, which way do you lean?” Options rotated

        Donald
        Trump (R) Joe
        Biden (D) Other
        (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure
        % % % % %

        5/11-14/19

        38 49 5 3 5

        3/17-20/19

        40 47 4 3 5

        “How would you vote if the candidates were Democrat Bernie Sanders and Republican Donald Trump?” If unsure: “Well, which way do you lean?” Options rotated

        Donald
        Trump (R) Bernie
        Sanders (D) Other
        (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure
        % % % % %

        5/11-14/19

        41 46 5 3 5

        3/17-20/19

        41 44 6 3 5

        “How would you vote if the candidates were Democrat Kamala Harris and Republican Donald Trump?” If unsure: “Well, which way do you lean?” Options rotated

        Donald
        Trump (R) Kamala
        Harris (D) Other
        (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure
        % % % % %

        5/11-14/19

        41 41 7 4 8

        3/17-20/19

        41 39 7 4 9

        “How would you vote if the candidates were Democrat Elizabeth Warren and Republican Donald Trump?” If unsure: “Well, which way do you lean?” Options rotated

        Donald
        Trump (R) Elizabeth
        Warren (D) Other
        (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure
        % % % % %

        5/11-14/19

        41 43 6 4 6

        3/17-20/19

        42 40 7 4 8

        “How would you vote if the candidates were Democrat Pete Buttigieg and Republican Donald Trump?” If unsure: “Well, which way do you lean?” Options rotated

        Donald
        Trump (R) Pete
        Buttigieg (D) Other
        (vol.) Wouldn’t
        vote (vol.) Unsure
        % % % % %

        5/11-14/19

        41 40 7 4 8

        CNN Poll conducted by SSRS. April 25-28, 2019. Registered voters nationwide.

        “If Bernie Sanders were the Democratic Party’s candidate and Donald Trump were the Republican Party’s candidate, for whom would you be more likely to vote?” N=456; margin of error ± 5.6

        Donald
        Trump (R) Bernie
        Sanders (D) Other
        (vol.) Neither
        (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        4/25-28/19

        44 50 0 4 2

        “If Joe Biden were the Democratic Party’s candidate and Donald Trump were the Republican Party’s candidate, for whom would you be more likely to vote?” N=470; margin of error ± 5.5

        Donald
        Trump (R) Joe
        Biden (D) Other
        (vol.) Neither
        (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        4/25-28/19

        45 51 – 1 2

        “If Pete Buttigieg were the Democratic Party’s candidate and Donald Trump were the Republican Party’s candidate, for whom would you be more likely to vote?” N=439; margin of error ± 5.7

        Donald
        Trump (R) Pete
        Buttigieg (D) Other
        (vol.) Neither
        (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        4/25-28/19

        44 47 1 2 6

        “If Kamala Harris were the Democratic Party’s candidate and Donald Trump were the Republican Party’s candidate, for whom would you be more likely to vote?” N=453; margin of error ± 5.5

        Donald
        Trump (R) Kamala
        Harris (D) Other
        (vol.) Neither
        (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        4/25-28/19

        45 49 0 3 3

        “If Elizabeth Warren were the Democratic Party’s candidate and Donald Trump were the Republican Party’s candidate, for whom would you be more likely to vote?” N=452; margin of error ± 5.6

        Donald
        Trump (R) Elizabeth
        Warren (D) Other
        (vol.) Neither
        (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        4/25-28/19

        48 47 0 2 3

        “If Beto O’Rourke were the Democratic Party’s candidate and Donald Trump were the Republican Party’s candidate, for whom would you be more likely to vote?” N=469; margin of error ± 5.5

        Donald
        Trump (R) Beto
        O’Rourke (D) Other
        (vol.) Neither
        (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        4/25-28/19

        42 52 – 2 4

        ABC News/Washington Post Poll. April 22-25, 2019. N=865 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 4.

        “Assuming Trump is the Republican candidate for president in 2020, would you definitely vote for him, would you consider voting for him, or would you definitely not vote for him?”

        Definitely
        for Trump Consider
        Trump Definitely
        not Trump Unsure
        % % % %

        4/22-25/19

        30 14 52 3

        1/21-24/19

        28 14 56 1

        Georgetown Institute of Politics and Public Service Battleground Poll conducted by the Tarrance Group (R) and Lake Research Partners (D). March 31-April 4, 2019. N=1,000 likely voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.1.

        “Now thinking ahead to the election for president that will be held in November 2020, do you think Donald Trump has performed his job as president well enough to deserve reelection, or do you think it’s time to give a new person a chance?”

        Trump
        deserves
        reelection Time to give
        new person
        a chance Unsure
        % % %

        3/31 – 4/4/19

        38 57 5

        Suffolk University/USA Today Poll. March 13-17, 2019. N=1,000 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.

        “If the 2020 presidential election were held today, would you vote for President Trump, the Democratic nominee, or a third party candidate?”

        President
        Trump Democratic
        nominee Third party
        candidate Unsure Refused
        % % % % %

        3/13-17/19

        39 36 11 14 1

        NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll conducted by Hart Research Associates (D) and Public Opinion Strategies (R). Feb. 24-27, 2019. N=720 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.7.

        “Looking ahead to the next election for president, if Donald Trump runs for reelection as the Republican candidate, will you definitely vote for Trump in that election, probably vote for Trump, probably vote for the Democratic candidate, or definitely vote for the Democratic candidate?”

        2/24-27/19 12/9-12/18 12/13-15/17
        % % %

        Definitely Trump

        27 23 18

        Probably Trump

        14 15 18

        Probably Democrat

        15 13 14

        Definitely Democrat

        33 39 38

        Someone else (vol.)

        2 2 n/a

        Depends (vol.)

        5 3 4

        Neither (vol.)

        1 2 3

        Unsure

        3 3 5

        Wason Center for Public Policy Survey Research Lab at Christopher Newport University. Feb. 3-17, 2019. N=1,001 likely voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.2.

        “If the 2020 presidential election were held today, would you vote for the incumbent president, Republican Donald Trump, or for the Democrat running against him?”

        Trump Democrat Someone
        else (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % %

        2/3-17/19

        37 48 5 9

        “And if instead the choices were the incumbent president, Republican Donald Trump, the Democratic Party’s nominee, or a candidate running on an independent ticket, for whom would you vote?”

        Trump Democrat Independent
        candidate Someone
        else (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        2/3-17/19

        34 32 16 1 17

        CNN Poll conducted by SSRS. Jan. 30-Feb. 2, 2019. N=1,011 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.8.

        “I’m going to read you the names of a few people who are running or may run for president in 2020. For each one, please tell me whether you would be very likely, somewhat likely, not too likely, or not likely at all to support them if they decide to run in 2020. …”

        Very/Some-
        what likely Not too/Not
        at all likely Unsure/
        Refused
        % % %

        “Former vice president Joe Biden”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        50 47 4

        “President Donald Trump”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        41 58 1

        “Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        41 54 5

        “California Senator Kamala Harris”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        38 51 11

        “Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        36 56 8

        “New Jersey Senator Cory Booker”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        29 55 15

        “Former Texas congressman Beto O’Rourke”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        29 56 15

        “Former New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        27 65 8

        “New York Senator Kirsten Gillibrand”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        22 63 16

        “Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        21 55 24

        “Businessman Howard Schultz”

        1/30 – 2/2/19

        20 66 14

        Fox News Poll conducted by Anderson Robbins Research (D) and Shaw & Company Research (R). Dec. 9-11, 2018. N=1,006 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.

        “Just your best guess: As of today, do you think Donald Trump will be reelected president in 2020, or not?”

        Think he
        will be Don’t think
        he will be Unsure
        % % %

        12/9-11/18

        39 52 9

        CNN Poll conducted by SSRS. Dec. 6-9, 2018. N=1,015 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.8.

        “As you may have heard, Donald Trump has decided to run for reelection. Please just give me your best guess: Do you think he will win the presidential election in 2020, or do you think he will lose?”

        Think he
        will win Think he
        will lose Unsure/
        Refused
        % % %

        12/6-9/18

        43 51 6

        10/4-7/18

        46 47 7

        3/22-25/18

        40 54 6

        Grinnell College National Poll conducted by Selzer & Co. Nov. 24-27, 2018. N=828 likely voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.4.

        “If a vote for president of the United States were held today, would you definitely vote to reelect President Trump, consider someone else, or definitely vote to elect someone else, or would you not vote?”

        Definitely
        Trump Consider
        someone else Definitely
        someone else Would
        not vote Unsure
        % % % % %

        11/24-27/18

        35 17 45 1 3

        8/29 – 9/2/18

        36 17 43 – 3

        Gallup Poll. Oct. 15-28, 2018. N=902 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 4.

        “Please tell me whether you think each of the following political office-holders deserves to be reelected, or not. … How about President Trump?”

        Deserves to
        be reelected Does not
        deserve Unsure
        % % %

        10/15-28/18

        41 56 3

        4/9-15/18

        37 59 3

        CNN Poll conducted by SSRS. Jan. 14-15 & 17-18, 2018. N=913 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.8.

        “I know it’s a long way off, but thinking about the election for president that will happen in 2020, if [see below] were the Democratic Party’s candidate and Donald Trump were the Republican Party’s candidate, who would you be more likely to vote for: [see below]?” If unsure: “As of today, do you lean more toward [see below]?”

        Donald
        Trump (R) Bernie
        Sanders (D) Other
        (vol.) Neither
        (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        1/14-15, 17-18/18

        42 55 1 2 1

        Donald
        Trump (R) Oprah
        Winfrey (D) Other
        (vol.) Neither
        (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        1/14-15, 17-18/18

        42 51 2 3 1

        Donald
        Trump (R) Joe
        Biden (D) Other
        (vol.) Neither
        (vol.) Unsure/
        Refused
        % % % % %

        1/14-15, 17-18/18

        40 57 1 1 1

        Quinnipiac University Poll. Jan. 12-16, 2018. N=1,212 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.4.

        “Would you be inclined to vote to reelect Donald Trump as president, or not?”

        Inclined Not
        inclined Unsure/
        No answer
        % % %

        1/12-16/18

        34 62 3

        “If the presidential election were being held today, and the candidates were Oprah Winfrey the Democrat and Donald Trump the Republican, for whom would you vote?”

        Donald
        Trump (R) Oprah
        Winfrey (D) Neither
        (vol.) Someone
        else (vol.) Unsure/
        No answer
        % % % % %

        1/12-16/18

        39 52 4 2 4

        NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist Poll. Jan. 8-10, 2018. N=1,092 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.

        “Do you want Oprah Winfrey to run for president in 2020, or not?”

        Want
        her to run Don’t want
        her to run Unsure
        % % %

        ALL

        33 56 11

        Democrats

        47 40 13

        Republicans

        15 77 7

        Independents

        32 56 12

        “If the 2020 election for president were held today, whom would you support if the candidates are Oprah Winfrey, the Democrat, and Donald Trump, the Republican?”

        Donald
        Trump (R) Oprah
        Winfrey (D) Unsure
        % % %

        ALL

        39 50 11

        Democrats

        4 91 6

        Republicans

        85 8 6

        Independents

        37 46 17

        CNN Poll conducted by SSRS. Nov. 2-5, 2017. N=1,021 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.6.

        “Please tell me whether you think each of the following political officeholders deserves to be reelected or not. … How about Donald Trump?”

        Deserves to
        be reelected Does not Unsure/
        Refused
        % % %

        11/2-5/17

        33 63 4

        Democrats

        4 94 2

        Independents

        30 64 6

        Republicans

        80 17 3

        9/17-20/17

        33 61 6

        Democrats

        7 91 1

        Independents

        28 64 8

        Republicans

        76 18 6

        Among registered voters:

        11/2-5/17

        35 62 4

        9/17-20/17

        35 59 6

        Quinnipiac University Poll. March 2-6, 2017. N=1,283 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 2.7.

        “Do you want Oprah Winfrey to run for president in the 2020 election, or not?”

        Want
        her to run Don’t want
        her to run Unsure/
        No answer
        % % %

        ALL

        21 69 10

        Republicans

        11 82 7

        Democrats

        32 56 11

        Independents

        19 70 11

  3. Neon Vincent June 10, 2019 at 10:14 am #

    “America performed splendidly in World War Two, rescuing Europe and Asia from manifest evil” – That reminds me that last Thursday was the 75th Anniversary of D-Day. Time to reflect on when the U.S. was at the peak of its power and used it for good.

    “[T]he slow, demoralizing dismantling of the very industry that made the 20th century America’s moment in history” — Andrew Yang thinks universal basic income is the solution to automation and deindustrialization. That’s a science-fiction solution to a science-fiction problem. Of course, that assumes that business as usual will continue, not an assumption most of the readers of this blog share.

    • Ol' Scratch June 10, 2019 at 10:35 am #

      The US was primarily patient and played its cards right. If there had been no Russian front there would have been no allied landing and things would have turned out very differently indeed. The US and UK were using the Russians right from the start, as Stalin was always viewed as a far greater threat than Hitler. Fortunately for them, Hitler was just dumb and egotistical enough to play along.

    • Tate June 10, 2019 at 10:46 am #

      Count me among the “most hardened cynics” among the Boomers. There will always be a diehard remnant however of the “most credulous fantasists” although the mood is certainly swinging toward a general cynicism. We approach the elephant at our hazard because sometimes it’s just better to remain ignorant.

      Many of the myths really die hard. How many here question, for example, that shining moment in our history: the Greatest Generation, our role & motives in World War II? I don’t question that Hitler had to be defeated once events came to a head, just the recasting of this conflict as some great moral crusade. That came much later, the historical recasting, if you weren’t aware.

      • elysianfield June 10, 2019 at 4:46 pm #

        “Many of the myths really die hard. How many here question, for example, that shining moment in our history: the Greatest Generation,”

        Tate,
        They were the Greatest Generation” because they sucked up their angst and self interests, were sent to war and did as they were told…and like the Russians and the Germans, they did it well….

        • Tate June 10, 2019 at 5:52 pm #

          You’re right. It’s a convenient placeholder but the ordinary men (& women) who served were dupes of those who engineered the conflict. I didn’t mean to denigrate their effort.

          • GreenAlba June 11, 2019 at 5:39 am #

            3.5 million remaining European Jews were grateful for them being ‘duped’.

            You are shameless. Believing you’ll be called to account one day for your words, actions and the younger, more innocent minds you infect makes you even more so.

          • Tate June 11, 2019 at 10:22 am #

            Oh, I have no delusions about the power I’m up against in ‘infecting young innocent minds.’ It’s probably a fool’s errand. I’m probably putting myself at serious risk (within this lifetime, not the next) by voicing any skeptism of certain received ‘truths’ that you & other of the good-thinkers (or NPCs, take your pick) blindly adhere to.

          • Tate June 11, 2019 at 10:24 am #

            *skepticism”. Yeah.

          • GreenAlba June 11, 2019 at 10:31 am #

            Tate. He’s listening.

          • GreenAlba June 11, 2019 at 10:32 am #

            And He saw it all, didn’t He? Careful.

          • Tate June 11, 2019 at 2:23 pm #

            And by ‘denigrate’ I wasn’t referring to negroes (polite Southerners used to say ‘nigra’ instead of ‘negro.’) They’ve been duped where they’re most susceptible by their own kind like Mad Maxine & the ever-present powers that pull her strings.

          • Elrond Hubbard June 13, 2019 at 11:26 am #

            Tate: given that you’re clearly hinting at Holocaust denial, you’re certainly putting yourself at risk of getting banned by JHK.

            He’s generally committed to freedom of speech, but on this matter he drops the banhammer without a second thought.

          • Tate June 13, 2019 at 3:36 pm #

            I can’t speak for JHK. I think your program needs an update though. If you haven’t been aware, just look around going back, oh I don’t know, months. Maybe he’s curious too. Just a theory. It’s not denial to question the details of a narrative.

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