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The Season of the Witch

      In my father’s
house are many mansions. Surely one of them has a room with no elephants in
     Not to crunch too many metaphors right
here at the top, but a consensus seems to be firming up in the animate jello of
the Internet that we have entered the Season of the Witch.  An odor of ripeness fills the virtual
air — something between dead carp and apples baking.  Whatever else appears to be going on in the upper stories
and verdigris-tinged turrets of capital finance — currency rackets, gold switcheroos,
interest rate arbitrage games, concealment of losses under rugs and behind
curtains, Chinese fire drills performed by Spanish prisoners, executive
three-card-monte set-ups, boardroom work-arounds, accounting quicksteps,
Peter-to-Paul-shuffles, check kitings, pigeon drops, Ponzi schemes,
hugger-muggers, bezels, shucks, jives, and enough monkeyshines to make Lord
Greystroke cry for mercy — apart, in other words, from business-as-usual, such
as it is these days, on Wall Street, there is a rising collective sense of
anxious expectation that things

are about to shake loose in the sad-ass shell of what remains of our
economy.  And the most perplexing
part is that there hardly seems any safe place to preserve one’s savings.

     The showmen over at
the Financial Sense website, have
put on an excellent month-long series of interviews and debate podcasts between
leading inflationistas and deflationistas — Daniel Amerman, Peter Schiff,
Robert Prechter, Mark Faber, “Mish” Shedlock, Harry Dent — and after weeks of
sedulous listening I still remain flummoxed as to where to stash the dwindling

     Harry Dent was a
curious case in point this week. 
He has made some howlingly wrong calls before (e.g. in 2006, predicting
a Dow 40,000 at the conclusion of the post-2001 bubble).  Perhaps he missed the crack-up aspect
of the most recent boom. He did not foresee the long gruesome meltdown of late
2007 to March 2009, or rather, his timing was off, since he called for the
commencement of a new Great Depression in 2010.  (And I hasten to insert here that my own timing of events
has not been so great either.) Anyway, Dent sees a “winter” of finance and
economy looming from here forward, characterized by extreme deflation, based on
his view that the amount of private debt going bad (est. $40 trillion) far
outweighs government’s ability to create new “money” (a few measily trillion) and hence
that there is no chance in hell we’ll find ourselves in an inflationary
situation for some time ahead.  The private debt workout has to be completed first.
Most curious, though, was when the interviewer, Jim Puplava, probed Dent
about his views on Peak Oil.  Dent
said he didn’t believe in it; that when he was in college in the 1970s (remember the OPEC
oil embargo of ’73), he learned to disregard any suggestions that we are
“running out of oil.”  He stated
this, by the way, as a simple assertion, without any further explanation, and
Puplava didn’t belabor him with arguments.  But it was a weird moment.  Of course, it hardly need be said that Peak Oil story has
never been about “running out of oil” per se, but rather about declining flows,
geopolitical management of flows, and the effects of depletion on industrial
economies — in particular the effect on regular, expected, cyclical “growth” of
the type that financial markets utterly depend on to power the trade in
investment paper.

is exceedingly odd that this does not factor into Dent’s thinking, because what
Peak Oil inescapably does is introduce the very sobering idea of discontinuity
— that is, that the game has changed radically, especially where all our
assumptions about continued “growth” are concerned. In that brief exchange on
Peak Oil, Dent seemed to take the position that the “winter” part of any historical financial
cycle always produced “new technology” that invariably saves the day, putting
this seemingly very smart man in the camp of so many techno-cornucopian
triumphalists all wishing for the same outcome: that some mythical “they” will
“come up with” a set of rescue remedies to keep all the cars circulating on the
freeways, and all the WalMarts groaning with swag.

     Like so many major
league prognosticators, Dent arrives at his ideas by building models of
reality, assembling “data” to create charts of trends in prices, interest
rates, and especially demographics – what age group of people are buying a lot
of what in which stage of their lives. 
The whole business seems very rational and reasonable except when you
realize that it is just another “narrative” — to borrow one of Nassim Nicholas
Taleb’s terms — girded with statistical justification.  One can hardly fault it from a strictly
procedural point of view — since, in our culture, conclusions ought to proceed
from evidence — but one can’t escape the feeling that it amounts to little more
than old-fashioned augury… that someone examining the entrails of a dead
chicken, spread over the front page of The Wall Street Journal, might arrive at
very similar conclusions.  All that
said, Dent was an appealingly confident personality on-the-air, the kind of
authoritative voice you’d like to believe, if only it were possible.

     Prechter was much the
same a few weeks earlier, and he, too, foresees a darker American future, based
on a different set of models called Elliot Wave principles.  His forecasts derive from a picture of
“social mood” as much as economic data flows.  He, too seems to disregard the Peak Oil story and its implications
as the master resource driving growth in industrial economies.

     Personally, I am not
at all sure that the Peak Oil story, or its associated general resource
scarcity story, will shed a whole lot of light on the question of
inflation-or-deflation.  I say this
because I think it is a short way down the road of depletion-and-scarcity before
the major complex systems we depend on for daily life become so unstable that
general socio-economic collapse ensues. 
After all, capital finance is only one of these many complex systems —
some other biggies being food production, trade and manufacture,
transportation, electric power 
distribution, infrastructure maintenance, the military, and
governance.  Inflation-or-deflation
will only be symptomatic of larger failures and instabilities in these systems
necessary for modern, civilized life.

     All of it begs the
question not only whether you or I will have two nickels to rub together, or
two gold eagles, or a bundle of six month US Treasury bills, or a zillion
shares of Apple, or a gainful vocation, or a roof over our heads, or a hot meal
at the end of the day, or a safe place to sleep, or a country we can
recognize.  I’ve done my share of
forecasting, with some episodes of notably bad timing.  I don’t do it for grandstanding effect
but to provide some basis for knowing what to do in the years directly ahead, so we
can hope to construct lives worth living. I’m impatient with models, charts,
and statistical analysis.  Perhaps
this is childish.  I’d rather tell
a story or paint a picture.  So,
I’m going to spend the rest of the week finishing the last chapter of World
Made By Hand Two
: The Witch of Hebron

while the US economy wanders where it will.



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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

406 Responses to “The Season of the Witch”

  1. seb September 28, 2009 at 10:16 am #


  2. Andrew September 28, 2009 at 10:24 am #

    Thanks for this post. Yes, things will wander where they will. I appreciate much of the urban critique, peak oil, economic theory, etc. here, but I’ve had my fill for the fall season. I think I am ready to go – check please.
    Looking forward to your new novel.

  3. zwick September 28, 2009 at 10:30 am #

    I’m confused by all the opinions of these “experts” as well, and find it difficult to tell the difference between someone who has a credible view versus someone just selling their newsletter, book, or speaking engagement.And I’m not refering to you, Jim! You make sense but those economists seem to be big time BS artists. I suppose It beats working! I’m looking forward to reading your next book. I was hoping that there would be a sequel.

  4. zzzzzz September 28, 2009 at 10:36 am #

    Cool beans man.
    Jimmy states:
    “…I think it is a short way down the road of depletion-and-scarcity before the major complex systems we depend on for daily life become so unstable that general socio-economic collapse ensues.”
    And as such is busy concluding “Hand Two”. So Jimmy’s “fiction” is about to become reality (In his mind.) And book two contains a witch. Maybe the witch will marry Harry Potter and all this nasty business of global meltdown can be avoided.

  5. walt September 28, 2009 at 10:42 am #

    Reality is simply too complex to confidently predict the future, especially for economists whose existing viewpoints are the predicate of prophecy. We believe patterns we discern everywhere. They are endless.
    Yes, oil is at or past peak. Yes, global temperatures are rising. Yes, our economy is a casino where the odds favor the house. That house is corrupt.
    Still, we don’t know confidently because the kaleidoscope is three-dimensional. We think we see something only to be disappointed. But the signs are still ominous. We know something is going to happen and it’s likely to be bad. How bad? We don’t know.

  6. bahmi September 28, 2009 at 10:54 am #

    I read Dent’s last book and came away totally puzzled. Some of his analysis appears sound and reasonable, but there’s a bunch of stuff that was proven to disagree greatly with his hunches. In this regard, what ever happened to Tom Peters? Is his word considered sacred now, or have we moved on to greener pastures?
    Financial writers have a helluva hard time explaining the past, let alone the future. Even when presented with the actual numbers, once they submit said numbers to analysis all hell breaks loose. My feeling is that Dent is merely a better grade of charlatan than some others.

  7. mikebeauchamp_15@msn.com September 28, 2009 at 10:56 am #

    Recently while perusing alternative energy, I came across The History of Hemp.I did not know that hemp was the biggest cash crop in USA until 1942. Hemp clothing, paper, rope, and sails from hemp fiber were standard in the western world, For 150 years all paint and varnish was made from hemp. AS of 1900 hemp oil was used as a clean diesalfuel. In 1940 Kentucy grew 1800 tons of hemp and the US agriculture Dept. stated that hemp would be the first billion dollar crop. In 1942 Dupont came up with chemicals that would break down cellulose in wood. Say goodbye hemp. One acre of hemp makes the same amount of paper as 4 acres of trees. The hemp grows in 1 summer. 250 acres can produce apprx. 10,000 gallons of hemp oil. Plastics can also be made from the oil and it biodegadable unlike petroleum plastics.

  8. kw1941 September 28, 2009 at 11:03 am #

    Yup, no one seems to know where to put their dwindling resources these days. No matter what you do, you get wiped-sawed around until there is little left. HOWEVER– the stock market goes up almost every day BIG TIME! As I write this DOW up about 135 points based on what?..six people seeking ONE job? I suppose that several TRILLION dollars created out of thin air and shoved into the markets by the big banks will do something. Again the boyz on Wall Street, the City of London and Frankfurt will be doing alright.

  9. lsjogren September 28, 2009 at 11:07 am #

    Financialsense Newshour is to me, as is Kunstler’s weekly essay, a necessity of life not far down the list from breathing.
    I too have found the inflation versus deflation debate excellent and also inconclusive.
    What I find most interesting is that it appears to me that the debaters FS has had on the inflation versus deflation issue all have a lot keener understanding of where we are at economically than the mainstream Keynesian establishment economists.
    And it seems to me the deflationistas and inflationistas are in about 95% agreement. They all agree on the fundamental assertion that our society has lived beyond its means and that the mountain of debt we have built up guarantees we are headed into a deep and long term economic depression.
    Where the two sides differ is whether the fact that we have a fiat monetary system and that the Federal Reserve can print paper money out of thin air in unlimited quantities means that the depression will be inflationary rather than deflationary.
    The deflationistas contend that the deflationary effect of the massive vaporization of private debt swamps out any counterveiling power the Federal Government and Fed have to devalue the dollar throught money-printing, stimulus programs, bank bailouts, etc.
    What is interesting is that the depression scenario proposed by BOTH sides is virtually identical except that in the deflationary scenario the dollar becomes more valuable, such that if you have some dollar savings you will be one of the few that is not badly bludgeoned by the depression- you will be able to for example buy a home for $5,000, that sort of thing.
    Whereas the inflationary scenario says the few that will not be badly bludgeoned by the depression are those that have some savings and put it in hard money assets like gold.
    As one inflationista commented, Schiff I believe it was, he agreed TOTALLY with the deflationista hypothesis if you substituted “gold” for “dollar”.
    As to peak oil, some of these guys believe in it, others aren’t. Dent’s obliviousness to it certainly doesn’t help his credibility, although I have become a firm believer that many people that have keen insights in some areas can be utterly oblivious to other realities.
    Kunstler insightfully pointed out that he himself has been wrong in matters of timing, and in fact I think that has been the biggest weakness in his theories. I think it is somewhat a matter of human nature that when we see big trouble ahead we expect it to show up immediately. We want to be proven correct and we want to see what happens next.
    Predictions of resource shortages in general have suffered heavily from that flaw. (recall Paul Erlich’s famous bet with, who was it, Julian Simon I believe?)
    Take Peak Oil. It seems to me obvious it is coming. Fossil fuels are becoming more scarce, and viable alternatives, assuming that they can be found (not guaranteed), will take in my view about a century to develop and deploy to the point where they replace the previous role of fossil fuels.
    However, in the short term, OPEC has curtailed their production to keep the price from plummeting to the fire-sale price of the latter part of last year.
    In addition, there is all these natural gas shale formations in the US that look like they are going to provide us with an abundance of NG for 2 or 3 decades.
    So in my view the natural resource shortage problems facing us may not show up for another decade or two. The macroeconomic crisis, on the other hand, is right on our doorstep. Thus, I think the debate of the inflationistas versus deflationistas is useful, in that I think that provides the most insight into what the near-term future, the next 5-10 years, holds for us.

  10. zzzzzz September 28, 2009 at 11:09 am #

    “Again the boyz on Wall Street, the City of London and Frankfurt will be doing alright.”
    Well fortunately for you the boyz can’t prevent you from investing in the market and going along for the ride. You can not win if you do not play. Get busy and do your homework.

  11. damon September 28, 2009 at 11:10 am #

    Yep, it’s all narrative. If someone’s around several decades from now & can actually get a hold of the data from this time of transition, they will be able to write a compellingly obvious story. But for now, I’m in the *flation camp — it won’t matter way…

  12. damon September 28, 2009 at 11:14 am #

    it won’t matter EITHER way…

  13. dale September 28, 2009 at 11:22 am #

    “Kunstler insightfully pointed out that he himself has been wrong in matters of timing,”
    Well…..I’m not sure how much “insight” is required to notice your own forecasts have been off by a mile.

  14. wardoc September 28, 2009 at 11:23 am #

    Don’t think for a minute that “Experts” can’t engage in extreme denial, or even psychotic level denial of reality. I’ve spent a 1/2 a lifetime in academic medicine and before that in traditional arts/sciences academia, and the average prof doesn’t have a clue about what is really going on outside of their very small area of expertise. Why? because they are scared of the unknown, and they have a strong desire to see the world in terms of a linear extrapolation from the present, because it safe and predictable. They too have the flawed gene for denial and wishful thinking, and cannot perceive events outside of the extrapolation from the “now.”

  15. Dan Treecraft September 28, 2009 at 11:30 am #

    How about a riddle?
    Three men meet on foot, at a very remote crossroads. One of them has, besides the clothes on his back, only a jug of beer and a large ham sandwich. The second has only a small purse of gold coins. The second has only a loaded S&W revolver.
    Who eats shoots and leaves – not necessarily in that order?

  16. nina September 28, 2009 at 11:31 am #

    Strange, no mention the mere hint of blowing Iran off the face of the map is having an effect? That no one has to “believe” in Peak Oil because the oilers are plotting to reach right into the sand and slurp it out? That growth only occurs when white phosphorus is falling and nothing in Capital Kingdom will resume normalcy until every carpetbagger is cleaning up?
    It really doesn’t matter what anybody “believes” in, what matters is what is taking place before our very eyes following the exact pattern we’ve always followed which is no different than calling failure success.

  17. zzzzzz September 28, 2009 at 11:33 am #

    “So in my view the natural resource shortage problems facing us may not show up for another decade or two.”
    Interesting observations, I agree that horizontal drilling has opened up NG reserves that were unimagined a few short years ago. However, I believe that shortages will manifest due to the recent news out of Iran.
    Iran is persistently planning for the elimination of the state of Israel. They are in the process of literally demanding that the U.S. or Israel “do something about it.” As the Obama administration has demonstrated that they are loathe to expand our Afghan engagement one could surmise that they are in no frame of mind to “do something” regarding Iran.
    This leaves the heavy lifting to Israel. Israel has no choice than to take Ahmadinejad for his word and that is the elimination of Israel. Israel will be forced to act. I’m guessing within 6 to 9 months. The peak oil theory will be temporarily replaced with the peak delivery actuality. The severity and duration of the impact to energy markets is anyone’s guess but it will not not be pretty.

  18. zzzzzz September 28, 2009 at 11:39 am #

    “Who eats shoots and leaves – not necessarily in that order?”
    The guy with the gun just had a huge meal at McDonalds and has a safe at home full of diamonds. No need for shooting. What a silly little riddle.

  19. Smoky Joe September 28, 2009 at 11:51 am #

    Dent’s unquestioned refusal of Peak Oil is understandable, in one sense.
    I know a few conservative “Doomers” who still deny Global Warming because in the 1970s they heard something different. As one toothless wonder told me a while back, “In the 70s them scientists telled us we was a-gonna have us a Ice Age.”
    To be fair (a tough thing to be for such numbskulls) the media and Hollywood played up a scientific hypothesis of a colder world as a sound prediction.
    In the 70s evidence also indicated that oil would be scarce sooner, rather than later. Then the North Slope and North Sea fields gave us a boost in production.
    We’ll have a tough time making progress on oil depletion until we get fewer “End of Oil” stories. The “meme,” as the digerati like to term such things, gets perpetuated online. Then, every time gas prices fall, Peak Oil gets dinged by those with a shallow command of the issue.

  20. risa b September 28, 2009 at 11:54 am #

    Enjoyed Hand, plan to enjoy Witch. Get crackin’!

  21. Frederick September 28, 2009 at 12:05 pm #

    This past Friday I returned to St. Louis from my country home down near the tip of southern Illinois to attend to some business and a family illness. It has been several months since I have been back in town and although economists and politicians tell us via radio and television that the economy is “back on the upswing” and the recession is over examples all around me within my own personal life experience speak of something far more ominous and troubling.
    Life in the country can sometimes leave one with a warped perspective of larger regional and national events, particularly if you have been as isolated as I have been, focused on my daily walk in the woods, taking care of my gardens, listening to classical music, spending the better part of each day writing and drawing in my studio and rarely coming into contact with another person for many weeks on end. So, upon returning to my old haunting grounds for a short while here in the city I am confronted by nearly every one I know who is hurting financially, with numerous ones becoming evermore withdrawn, anxious and distraught over job losses, looming foreclosures and asset depreciation. Even many establishments I used to frequent such as coffee shops, bars and dining spots have closed.
    Yesterday I attended an end-of-the-summer garden party at the home of two friends. Nearly everyone was upbeat at first but after a few stiff drinks several began to “unload” their sob stories and how they are nearly all suffering from layoffs, salary cuts, benefit cuts, etc. I felt like I was witness to a consoling session where everyone sits around in a circle and takes turns unloading to the group. One particular formerly well-off friend bemoaned the fact that he had to take a job as an appliance salesman at Sears as his retirement portfolio has dwindled to a fraction of its former value leaving him with too little to pay his monthly utility bills. Selling his house was no longer an option either as he would be forced to absorb too much of a loss. Also noteworthy was the amount of food and drink consumed at this gathering as it appeared several had not eaten much over the previous day or two. I left feeling rather fortunate, personally, as I have managed to have invested wisely.
    It amazes me how people try to remain upbeat and optimistic in order to not appear weak or unmotivated in the face of others. But for someone in my upper age bracket I have personally never witnessed so much fear and apprehension in the faces and mannerisms of both friends and family. The general mood seems to be that things are really not ever going to get much better and that our nation has been flung down a different course that no one seems able to truly understand, know how to navigate or anticipate the outcome.

  22. zzzzzz September 28, 2009 at 12:07 pm #

    “I know a few conservative “Doomers” who still deny Global Warming because in the 1970s they heard something different.”
    I don’t know too many people with access to a thermometer who deny Global Warming. What they have a disagreement with is the cause of warming. That and the other little issue of whether spending trillions of dollars will have ANY measurable impact. Of course those questions are not allowed to be broached because…?

  23. zzzzzz September 28, 2009 at 12:13 pm #

    “…I am confronted by nearly every one I know who is hurting financially, with numerous ones becoming evermore withdrawn, anxious and distraught over job losses, looming foreclosures and asset depreciation.”
    Did any express buyers remorse for having voted for our current Congress and Administration? The reason I ask is that things will NOT be getting better if we remain on the current course of spending money that we do not have.

  24. cowswithguns September 28, 2009 at 12:17 pm #

    What, no mention of Obama’s bombshell over the weekend about the “evil doers” in Iran? I guess it’s just par for the course.
    Obama has proven he’s one of the boys now. Get ready for the real stimulus, America — War in Iran.
    Also, I’m surprised Jim didn’t mention the stormtrooper cops in P-Burg who outnumbered protesters by like 4-1 and used war-time sound cannons (LRADs) on peaceful people. Again, probably just par for the course.
    As I watched all the action last week, I really couldn’t help but wonder how different our society would be now if we had had such technology during the era of civil rights marches. The sound cannon method is essentially a pre-emptive strike against people who are planning to peacefully congregate.
    And not one peep about the potential ramifications of the stymied P-Burg protests in the mainstream media.

  25. zzzzzz September 28, 2009 at 12:27 pm #

    “And not one peep about the potential ramifications of the stymied P-Burg protests in the mainstream media.”
    No because they were not stymied. The good little boys and girls were allowed to carry on their little childrens’ crusade. The naughty ones (83) got their little selves jailed.
    “Riot police watched as a vociferous but peaceful group of several thousand people marched for miles through downtown on Friday, the last day of the summit.”
    full story here:

  26. zzzzzz September 28, 2009 at 12:31 pm #

    “Also, I’m surprised Jim didn’t mention the stormtrooper cops…”
    By the way just because you think police should be wearing flip-flops and cut-offs does not make that a wise choice. It kind of hurts when one is hit with flying projectiles. A prudent choice would be equipment that deflects said objects. (Fucking ignoramus.)

  27. cowswithguns September 28, 2009 at 12:52 pm #

    The cops were able to handle themselves without all the Darth Vader-looking bullshit and wartime sci-fi weapons back in the 1960s.

  28. Jay September 28, 2009 at 12:52 pm #

    Jim; I listen to FSN regularly and heard the “Dent” interview by Jim Puplava. And I too was struck by his dismissal of the peak oil problem. And as you said, he is a smooth talking persuasive guy. He seemed to be making good points. But as I listened to him, what kept buzzing around in my mind was, “What about the peak oil paradigm shift?”.
    Like most economic forcasters he was very good at analyizing data and observing past historical trends. However like they all seem to do, he assumes that in the future, circumstances will basically remain the same. There are no black swans or paradigm shifts in their forcasts. Clearly, that is why his projections were sometimes way off in the past.
    Jim, I agree totally with you as to preparing for the future. I also have no idea where to invest or how to really adjust my life to handle the inevitably approaching, grim future. In my opinion, the peak oil problem will create the greatest paradigm shift for the world economy and world social structure that has ever been experienced. Everything about the future is unpredictable without any certainty for years to come.
    And sadly, Mr Dent makes the same common mistake about energy and technology that so many others do. He basically equates the two. He equates energy and technology as though they are virtually one and the same and almost interchangable. However, technology is not energy. Technology can not run our modern society. Energy fuels our modern life style just as energy propelled the world centuries ago. Energy comes first, technology follows.
    Jim, once again a great article. You are a very good observer and analyst. You’d have made a good scientist. Well, now I’m going to listen to your Thursday webcast about Los Angeles. I live there. I know I’ll be nodding my head in agreement with every observation you make. I’ll truly enjoy hearing your views of Tinseltown. And yes folks. It has the worst traffic of any city in the US of A

  29. lancemfoster September 28, 2009 at 12:57 pm #

    “…that some mythical “they” will “come up with” a set of rescue remedies to keep all the cars circulating on the freeways, and all the WalMarts groaning with swag.”
    Sounds like when things are going great, we retain our belief in science. But when things get shaky and weird, we still turn to magic.
    That correspondence course I took in folklore, hoodoo and rootwork may turn out to be one of the wisest investments in my own future I ever made. Gotta practice up on reading entrails though 😉

  30. Frederick September 28, 2009 at 12:57 pm #

    To those of you out there in Kunstlerland who like to take Jim to task for being a little “off the mark” with regards to his time lines just remember Mr. Andrews, chief architect and engineer of the RMS Titanic, who by way of his own calculations after the ship hit the iceberg informed the captain the vessel only had less than an hour to live. Actually, the ship took nearly three hours to founder, and this, coming from an expert who for all intents and purposes should have been right on the mark with regards to stats and figures.
    Economics, like the sinking of great ships or anything else for that matter, always involves a multitude of variables and inter-related tangents that we cannot always fully anticipate, even though any one of us can bring years of personal experience and field work to the table. My point here is that if one were to focus on the larger picture that Jim is trying to convey he has nearly always been right on the mark. This is what is important and I sincerely hope more of you will keep this front and center in your minds as you proffer personal comments and observations and occasionally hurl accusations.

  31. indigoboy September 28, 2009 at 1:02 pm #

    First to Dan : A Panda eats shoots and leaves.
    I live in the UK. This means that Jim’s observations are different from my experience here,in terms of fine detail, but not so much in the overview.
    Whether its the US or UK, when is it going to dawn that the old model of economics is finished? There is a constant belief or hype that soon, we will all be able to get back to our normal way of making loads of money by doing little more than trading houses. And that we can all then go down to the mall to spend it on cheap goods made thousands of miles away.
    I started my working life in an engineering firm, and I sometimes fear that we have bred a generation so removed from an understanding of manufacturing that they are almost in a kind of ‘cargo cult’ mentality.
    1. We have to re-learn that making things (here in Britain & the US), is the way forward.
    2. We have to accept that we are wasteful, and stop throwing things into landfill, simply because it’s ‘so last year’.
    3. We have to learn that debt is intended to be a short term measure, not a lifestyle ambition.

  32. zzzzzz September 28, 2009 at 1:03 pm #

    “The cops were able to handle themselves …”
    There would be no need for cops to “handle themselves” if the MORONS who went to Pittsburgh had stayed home, picked up their rooms and helped their mommies and daddies with the household chores.

  33. suburbanempire September 28, 2009 at 1:25 pm #

    Ever go to Kmart or Sears and get the feeling the place is run by Satanic frat boys? There’s a reason for that….
    get the suburban dish

  34. seb September 28, 2009 at 1:30 pm #

    I am not a fan of the phrase “simply too complex”.
    I had realized earlier today, before I got on the fwy, that I would put my seat belt on. I almost never do. But, earlier still, I was able to put the lid on some hot sauce and rebag my breakfast burrito because the acceleration lane of the fwy can do some wicked things, and on a side street you can creep, and even stop, over to the side. The birds do it. You do not know what that fluid is reaching down your wrist and falling on the rich Corinthian leather.
    I conned myself into it, and I had, very, very early, gotten the seat belt around me by the back end of a cop car for when I passed him, then let it snap back. I like to drive sitting somewhat sideways.
    I told myself the seat belt wearing was a good habit (and smoking cigarettes was a bad habit). But, good and bad habits, IMO, do not bear a relationship which is in strict inverse. Generally, the logical, “not bad” passes for “good”. Simple is never painless. Mass and gravity are the simplest thing on the planet.
    To start a habit you utilize a “reason” to do the act.
    You, sir, do not believe in predictions at all; that is relevant, and so to answer what you have implied, that a simple enough system could be predicted, but the economy is not one of them, is futile.
    It is not to my liking the way people conduct business lately. It is of little mystery what is going to happen. Read the blog. Counting on greed, the least common denominator, coupled with a little clairvoyance, will predict the future. Some of us predicted the future before, so it can be done.
    BTW, The World Made By Hand, as a concept is, “A Hand-Made World”. Another word in there is, “Man-Made World”, meaning the same thing. The song, “Hand-Made Woman” is in opposition to “Natural Woman”.

  35. dale September 28, 2009 at 1:48 pm #

    “My point here is that if one were to focus on the larger picture that Jim is trying to convey he has nearly always been right on the mark.”
    An example of his being “right on the mark” would be??

  36. Puzzler September 28, 2009 at 1:54 pm #

    So I guess you’ve drunk the kool-aid on Global Warming. It’s easier to turn your brain over to the Global Warming Faith (for it is a religion, not science) than to ask for proof.
    Human activity as a cause of global warming so far only exists in flawed computer models — it hasn’t been scientifically proven, despite the faithful’s claims of “settled” science. I’ll remain sceptical until scientific proof is found.
    Trying to deal with a problem when you don’t how the mechanisms work is a waste of money and time.
    Also, many of the Global Warming Faithful have other agendas. Instead of an Inconvenient Truth one should be on the lookout for the Convenient Lie.
    Calling everyone that hasn’t swallowed the kool-aid on Global Warming a “denier” is certainly easier than using one’s brain. I’m using mine and it’s open to whatever scientific proof may be found.

  37. seb September 28, 2009 at 2:01 pm #

    I think they ought to hold the next Inauguration in Dallas’ Dealy Plaza.

  38. DWMitchell September 28, 2009 at 2:03 pm #

    Very insightful post, JHK. I appreciate you pointing out that predicting the timing events should not later focus on whether those timed events came to conclusion at the appointed time, but rather than we should simply be “looking ahead” and preparing for these things now. This is not a “let’s wait and see if it happens on time” game we are playing here. We need to find a way to replace daytime television super-corporation commercials with messages and text like this.
    Sometimes I think one of the major forces keeping messages like these accepted and heard is the bombardment of opposing messages that are not rooted in revealing some notch of truth to our situation, but rather often rooted in basic self-gain, as in the case of advertisement, which is f’n everywhere. The competition paradigm currently has a much larger reach than the co-operative paradigm. If there was somehow a way to replace this…

  39. ruskin September 28, 2009 at 2:07 pm #

    i do hope, jim, that the womenfolk get the laundry up and running, using grey water systems with a community greenhouse– some banana trees, yams, the usual tomatoes and herbs, maybe lemons… i would like a laundromat with a faux stream with real rocks in it, that we can beat the clothes upon, while discussing life as we live it…looking forward to part deux, not to mention, the movie!

  40. asia September 28, 2009 at 2:07 pm #

    JIM K
    from the Times :
    ‘ gore backed car firm gets large US loan’
    Cars to be made in finland.
    Electric cars that will cost about 100k each
    Al G is in line to get one.
    2 firms will get a billion from uncle sam !!!

  41. seb September 28, 2009 at 2:09 pm #

    Puzzler, I have a Discover magazine and in it they ask Nobel Prizewinners what the strongest evidence for man-made global warming is. The guy said three things, the first one being that cooling in the upper atmosphere (observed)combined with warming at the surface (observed) tells us that energy is being trapped close to the surface. There are about five more mathematically devastating ones like this. Want me to go get it?

  42. asia September 28, 2009 at 2:15 pm #

    Meanwhile in the beltway things have hit the fan for one big time Dem. They are seeking a life term for him!
    Maybe hillary and bill will visit him…:
    Norman Hsu convicted of breaking campaign finance laws – Los …May 20, 2009 … Norman Hsu — a fundraiser for top Democrats, including Hillary Rodham Clinton — was convicted this morning in New York of violating.etc
    ALSO I ACTUALLY BOUGHT AND READ his junk in the 1990s….his predictions were way off
    what hes pushing now to make a buck i dummo
    one of his books talked about lots of cheap energy this century

  43. Canuckistani September 28, 2009 at 2:16 pm #

    Would you like to shoot me now or wait ’til you get home?
    That’s my take on the inflation/ deflation question. I think another prime element of the “Witch/internet goo” media zeitgeist is the recent New York Times story “Oil Industry Sets a Brisk Pace of New Discoveries”, which suggests that this peak oil thing is not so bad (a very complete analysis is at http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5811#more). I saw the NYT article reprinted in Saturday’s Toronto Star, so there are plenty of people who want to hear that there’s still lots of oil. (If the public wants to believe the lie…print the lie). The good news is that the mainstream media is engaging on issues of peak oil and its contribution to our financial crisis(though they do try to avoid engaging, and if they have to ask, are happiest with a denial or obfuscation). The bad news (or worse news, since the good news is little more than barely disguised bad news) is that they aren’t providing useful information that will allow the public to assess the situation and make decisions or form intelligent opinions. Not that we would expect them to.

  44. empirestatebuilding September 28, 2009 at 2:17 pm #

    “a consensus seems to be firming up in the animate jello of the Internet that we have entered the Season of the Witch.”
    Where are you getting this sense from? I’d like to read those thoughts… all I seem to find is news that “we have turned a corner” or “bottomed out”
    I’m with you my man… shit just plain stinks out there…

  45. Tomcat16 September 28, 2009 at 2:31 pm #

    A surprisingly sparse blog today but the two things I take away from it are: that the so-called “experts” are mostly clueless, as usual, so why even bother listening to them, and that “the economy will [indeed] wander where it will”. The other thing that has become clear is that the mood “out there” is palpably changing from edgy toward something darker.
    As I’ve been laid off and out of work for 6 months now (and never expected to be for this long), and the door to my once-lucrative career appears to be slammed shut, locked, I have gone back to art and music (not lucrative) as they are the only things that really ever mattered to me anyway… and have been honing my “survival” skills in the meantime. For me, the future is now, and I suspect it will become this way for many, many others in the months ahead. There’s still a roof over my head, gas in my car, clothes on my back, etc. but be sure to include in your “survival backpack”: the mindset of not taking anything personally and keeping your sense of humor… because the majority of us will find ourselves in the same boat eventually if we’re not there already.

  46. Puzzler September 28, 2009 at 2:35 pm #

    Scientific proof is not determined by which theory gets the most votes.
    Discover magazine is not a scientific journal.
    Examples of climate change are not proof that change was caused by man’s activities.
    “cooling in the upper atmosphere combined with warming at the surface” is how the climate system always works, not proof of an extraordinary cause.

  47. labro September 28, 2009 at 2:42 pm #

    Smokey Joe who calls Global Warming a belief system or religion.
    The reality is modern science is no more than a belief system. Proof of this is the continuous evolution of what we consider to be reality. Much of what Einstein discovered is no longer the final word. Most of of the commotion about science being the final word has become just another vehicle for corporate interests by which
    manipulation of public mind towards profitable motives.
    In this case the disinformation by corporate interests against Global Warming is pervasive.
    No scientist that really delves into the multi-science discipline of enviromental pollution questions the “belief” that the billions of tons of co2 we have, and do, inject into the atmosphere will and does create a “green house effect”.
    These numbers can be crunched , data has been acquired, lab experiments of Green house containment have been carried out hundreds of times. All scientific method. Its real. If science is real…. its real.
    That is , of course, unless you need it to be otherwise. Then you just avoid the data , as many must do to justify their lifestyle of overconsumption.
    Educate yourself… and I dont mean FOX news.

  48. PeakOilLori September 28, 2009 at 2:58 pm #

    I wonder about this too, KW. Why is the stock market so robust, when main street is almost starving to death?

  49. seb September 28, 2009 at 2:59 pm #

    I said that cooling in the stratosphere and warming of the surface meant that energy was being trapped close to the surface. “They” always try to say “Maybe the sun is getting hotter.” Well, this shows that that is not what is happening, don’t you think?
    The startoversphere.
    With a scientific background, we drop little hints invoking thermodynamics’ 3 laws and stuff. It’s climate science. Yes, it is complex, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be predicted. Just use clairvoyance.
    like, when I was five somebody said I could hear the ocean in a conch shell. I told him, “Man, I can hear the ocean in a Mason jar.” What, you don’t hear the ocean in a conch shell? Because the ocean is too complex?

  50. Dolan Williams September 28, 2009 at 3:02 pm #

    That’s a great piece. I always had a suspicion that those rich Ivy League frat boys were true perverts. But, all this anal related stuff is truly disgusting. But, it sort of makes sense in a way since they have been making the American public bend over for quite a long time now.

  51. Jaego Scorzne September 28, 2009 at 3:04 pm #

    Put your money in metals. They have been kept down artificially, but cannot be forever. It looks like that is begining to change in the last two weeks. Buy them, bury them (no banks), and them draw a treasure map on your chest pirate style. Don’t trust any tatoo artist-you are going to have to do it yourself. Consider it a test of manhood. Tell only your parrot. Bit if it talks too much, shoot it.
    Another idea is Australia. There are signs that it is to be one of the refuges of the Global Elite. It has been prepared for decades now-first they declared themselves an “Asian Nation”-to the complete confusion of the Asians. And then they began to bring in millions of Asians, Muslim, and Pacific Islanders. All White Nations must be destroyed so that the Terrible Beauty of Global Civilization can be born. It’s not worth it, but anyway…Peter Schiff reccomends one of the mints there very highly. His company will set it up for you. Even if America survives, they may well confiscate our Gold as they did in the Depression. Silver may be a better choice here-and buying gold overseas.

  52. dale September 28, 2009 at 3:07 pm #

    These numbers can be crunched , data has been acquired, lab experiments of Green house containment have been carried out hundreds of times. All scientific method. Its real. If science is real…. its real.
    That is , of course, unless you need it to be otherwise. Then you just avoid the data , as many must do to justify their lifestyle of overconsumption.
    So true. Science, while operating in a logical manner, also contains a number of assumptions which are little different from beliefs.
    For one, we assume there is an existent stable world “out there” that our eyes look out upon, and see just as it is. While this notion may be conventionally true, ultimately it is nothing more than an article of faith.
    There is much discussion in science circles about finding the “unifying” theory to bring so-called classical physics into harmony with quantum mechanics. It will never happen. Classical physics like quantum mechanics is “conventionally true”, The conventional truth of both is dependent upon, and relative too, their individual mode of inquiry, In Classical Physics that mode of inquiry is perception, and in quantum mechanics it is mathematics. You will never successfully “perceive” the mathematical reality of an electron.

  53. Anne September 28, 2009 at 3:07 pm #

    Writing a story is about as useful as anything else you might do at this point.
    The message has been spread and people will now each have to figure out the appropriate response to this predicament. Some of us will be right and survive and probably most of us will be wrong and may or not make it through. No one knows for sure when it will occur, or how dramatic the first phase of this long decline will be and it’s silly to pretend otherwise.
    Dare we hope that your next story doesn’t feature a middle-aged male protagonist who conveniently gets a new nubile young wife after the collapse? The book was pretty good overall other than that detail, which sat ill with this middle-aged wife. A good yarn.

  54. Jaego Scorzne September 28, 2009 at 3:13 pm #

    The Skull and Bones make their canidates tell their sexual history and fantasy while laying in a coffin.
    The whole Global Warming thing is another Elitist Scam. They had a United Nations conference and then cherry picked the reports to create an alarmist agenda. Many of the scientists quoted are now violently opposed to what has been said in their name. The fact is that the planet has been cooling for over a decade now. Last years global warming conference in London was in the middle of the worst early snow fall in decades. Very embarasing I’m sure.

  55. asoka September 28, 2009 at 3:13 pm #

    First to Dan: A ham sandwich is not worth fighting over, or threatening, or killing. As previously noted, only a Panda eats shoots and leaves. Further, the Bible says the first shall be last and the last first, so think carefully about the value of a ham sandwich.
    Second to labro: Thanks for a note a refreshing rationality. Anyone who does not recognize anthropogenic global warming has not reviewed the scientific literature, or, is incapable of appreciating the evidence.
    Third to JHK: Congratulations on turning and away from the nonsense of the blogosphere to dedicate yourself to the art of writing your next novel.
    Fourth: The economic recovery is just beginning. Of the hundreds of billions appropriated by Congress in the Economic Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, less than $100 billion has been spent. We are only just barely beginning.
    Employment will increase as more recovery funds are approved for release in projects for alternative energy and infrastructure improvements (such as the smart grid, rail transportation, etc.)
    When health care reform with a public option is approved later this year (and it will be approved), small business will receive a major boost and will be able to hire more workers because they won’t have to pay for, or manage paperwork for, expensive private health insurance plans. Employment will increase since small business employs a large percentage of the work force.
    Now is not the time for wailing and gnashing of teeth. Change is coming… positive change we can believe in. The sky is not falling… nor will it.

  56. seb September 28, 2009 at 3:20 pm #

    The ocean and the earth and stuff make that econ look pretty funny, like: “There hasn’t been this many unemployed since 1982.”
    Jake, “moving” means up or down and that takes time, so you measure it twice. Now, it could have gone up, but it went down, and the chance of that was 0.50. increased CO2 was present, and that could have gone down, but it went up. The total prob is now 0.25. We shift over to another line yielding 0.25, and so on. At five or ten of these, we are now clearing a million to one against it not being man-made.
    The two poles of our planet have not moved together, both spewing ice into the world ocean, for 65 million years. The last time that happened there was a mass extinction event. If that is happening, then the movement of the unemployment rate is off the charts, along with the workers, the continents, stuff like that.
    The man in the pulpit told me, …
    He has the bully pulpit, …
    So, you have an expression useful so that we do not get confused about the real pulpit.
    Well, in the pulpit or under the influence notwithstanding, IN THE LABORATORY is not something which requires the fear of God in order to work.
    Fear of fire is fine, but don’t think we spot each other a squirt-gun dousing with flammables and let them dare to throw a lit match on us. Unlike a movie, it is my personal observation that the invisible gasoline vapors creep over to the lighter and catch that bum on fire before you are done taunting him.
    Fire is corpuscular, see?

  57. labro September 28, 2009 at 3:37 pm #

    Whats wrong with a nubile young lover for heavens sake.It could be the other way around , but that fantasy best be written by a female.
    Seriously the details are what make the book so believable/ potentially useful. I study and experiment self sufficiency on the same basis. It may end up being potentially useful in the times ahead.Any book that helps me see possible futures,
    gives me some insight I might not have otherwise, I consider important right now.
    ALAS BABYLON is another quite good book, written in the 50s I believe , but very insightful. Another one worth reading a few times like I have JHK’s -World made By Handbook
    JHK-I loved the story except when it ended. Im waiting for the next chapter/book

  58. Tomcat16 September 28, 2009 at 3:37 pm #

    “Israel will be forced to act. I’m guessing within 6 to 9 months. The peak oil theory will be temporarily replaced with the peak delivery actuality.”
    zzzzzz, completely agree with you. Maybe possibly sooner, like 1st Qtr, 2010. And this will be the very thing that derails the smoke-and-mirrors “economic recovery” now allegedly underway.

  59. asoka September 28, 2009 at 3:49 pm #

    zzzzzz: “Israel will be forced to act.”
    tomcat16: “zzzzzz, completely agree with you. Maybe possibly sooner, like 1st Qtr, 2010.”
    Ehud Barak: “Iran is not an “existential threat” to Israel.”
    Ahmadinejad: “The crimes being committed by the Zionist regime (Israel) are happening because it is aware that it has reached the end of the line and will soon fade away from the earth.”
    Ahmadinejad never threatened to destroy Israel. He predicted it would “fade away” due to its own actions.
    I’m going to believe the words of the principal actors, both Ehud Barak and Ahmadinejad, before believing the blogosphere non-actors: zzzzzzz and tomcat16.

  60. seb September 28, 2009 at 3:52 pm #

    No way, JS. I have thought about this, too. But, it isn’t a gamble. Banks are supposed to be safe. At $10,000 in checking and nowhere to put it, I should get a free safe deposit box, but if I put my cash in it, they’ll say, “Not so fast. You need an average balance of ten grand, son.”
    So I go out, not a beaver or whatever it is buries things, and I start by burying my whole wad, and this the second go-round, where it was not ten grand the first time; we had access to multiples of ten grand.
    Try it. People can torture you to reveal the location, but I am just making a point that once it’s out of the bank, it is gone. And Jim Kunstler the human being is expressing the very real and at-hand quandary. I mean, it seems like he really wants to know. But look how silly it was to regard housing as a repository of wealth. He has always said that.
    BTW, there are pirates galore in S. Clay Wilson’s Pork. I found my copy and reread it. He was a great liberator in literature (they can call drawings pornography), having wised up R. Crumb. He was injured last year, hit his head, and will require care for the rest of his life. There’s a website for anyone wishing to donate. He is so great I’d give a dozen Jim Kunstlers for him.
    What bothers the average reader is being afraid that there is a penis showing just where the crowded drawing might allow for it, and yes, you can find it, and it is generally possible to trace the trajectory of sperm going into someone’s eye.

  61. indigoboy September 28, 2009 at 4:04 pm #

    I unfortunately wandered into this comment area assuming that there might be at least some intelligent discourse.
    My mistake, sorry.

  62. georget September 28, 2009 at 4:06 pm #

    “…because what Peak Oil inescapably does is introduce the very sobering idea of discontinuity — that is, that the game has changed radically, …”
    “Like so many major league prognosticators, Dent arrives at his ideas by building models of reality, …”
    Well Jim, you’ve hit the nail right on the head here.
    We’ve all got our models of reality that we tend to stick to like glue, even though there is incontrovertible evidence in front of us that our model(s) are far from reality.
    The tenacious tendency toward herd mentality, on this Planet of the Apes, creates a kind of super-glue that holds these models of reality in place in the face of overwhelming cognitive dissonance.
    To the extent that one has built their life’s meaning around a particular model, there is a strong tendency to hold onto this model until the bitter end.
    Not to downplay the importance of Peak Oil in this regard, but there are far more important foundational false models of reality that are tenaciously adhered to by a far larger group of people than the idea that Peak Oil is a myth.
    The inability of individuals to accurately perceive the false beliefs of these foundational models of reality makes it all the easier for these same individuals to accept/create other false models throughout their lives.
    A good example of this process, that you can look at yourself, is your tenacious belief that the events on 9/11/2001 occurred as described by the government and the folks at Popular Science.
    You have continued to stick to this model of reality in spite of the overwhelming evidence (also substantiated by many scientists) that indicates there was much more at play in this event than the story put forth by the government. The number of unanswered questions concerning 9/11 far exceeds the number of unanswered questions concerning Peak Oil. It’s safe to say that many of the detractors of Peak Oil, are individuals who have built a model of reality around the belief, just as Dent has seemed to, that science will save the day. Any cognitive dissonance they had around the issue, before adopting this belief, is, at least temporarily relieved by the strong adoption of their model of reality.
    It’s also safe to say that many of the acceptors of the government explanation of events on 9/11 are individuals who have built their model of reality around the belief that ‘our government’ couldn’t do the things that are implied by the acceptance that the ‘official’ version of the story is a complete whitewash of the actual events. After all we’ve all been told again and again that the government is here to protect us. As with the Peak Oil issue, any cognitive dissonance the individual had around the issue, before adopting the ‘official’ story as their belief, is, at least temporarily relieved by the strong adoption of their model of reality.
    Several years ago I had a conversation, about 9/11, with a fellow employee who was also in the Army Reserves. His response to the information was very forth right. He stated that, being in the US Army, he couldn’t afford to believe that the government could do such a thing. I gave him verifiable examples of lethal events that the government had perpetrated against members of the military and against civilians and he continued to hold to his model of reality.
    Given the implications of this universal dilemma, on this Planet of the Apes, it makes perfect sense that you want to just go paint a picture.
    Have some fun!

  63. Dolan Williams September 28, 2009 at 4:08 pm #

    It’s interesting that you should shine a light on precious metals. I have one of my 401K’s in the largest precious metals fund on Wall Street. However, I’m purchasing silver right now becasue I think it has a better upside in the future than even gold.
    However, I would suggest that some other items might be even more lucrative. One of those things is hard liquor. Right after World War II, you could obtain just about anything you wanted on the European continent if you had booze and cigarettes. I have seriously considered stockpiling hard liquor if I move to the right location. Another possible investment would be in guns and/or ammo. People in the middle of a social breakdown will definitely want and need those types of items. However, you would have to be careful about the Feds thinking you were some kind of terrorist and sweeping down on you like they did at Waco and Ruby Ridge.

  64. Tomcat16 September 28, 2009 at 4:09 pm #

    “I’m going to believe the words of the principal actors, both Ehud Barak and Ahmadinejad, before believing the blogosphere non-actors: zzzzzzz and tomcat16.”
    Well that’s your problem, asoka – your belief in the words of politicians. THEY LIE!
    “…positive change we can believe in.”
    Are you for real? Do you work in Team Obama’s front office or something? “Positive change we can believe in” was already shown to be empty campaign sloganeering by the time Obamarama delivered his DN acceptance speech. Geez, get a clue.
    Optimism is one thing, but you’re seriously deluded dude (or dudette). I have no problem with you and certainly not trying to get you to believe anything, but you might find it useful to question everything you see and hear from media sources and politicians rather than just “believing” (like a good little sheep), and who knows, it might actually save your life one day.
    You can thank me later… or not.

  65. abbeysbooks September 28, 2009 at 4:09 pm #

    Martin Armstrong of Princeton Economics http://princetoneconomics.blogspot.com/ developed a model that was accurate. He predicted all this and made lots of money on it and so did all the people who bought his advice. While everyone in the early 80’s was raving about gold Armstrong was predicting the coming downturn. And he predicts many other worldwide trends in addition.
    But he has been in prison for 10 years now for refusing to divulge his model and other things the govt wants.
    So be glad JHK your predictions are not accurate and all the others should thank their errors. You are all free.
    Not for nothing is Cassandra duct taped and Teresias blinded.
    My thinking is still going on his 1980 predictions and writings.

  66. abbeysbooks September 28, 2009 at 4:18 pm #

    See my later reply on Martin Armstrong who has been in jail for 10 years for correctly predicting everything. He refuses to give up his model or anything else. Here’s a good summary.

  67. suburbanempire September 28, 2009 at 4:19 pm #

    Ever walk into a Kmart or Sears store and get the idea that the place is run by Satanic frat boys?
    There is a reason for that

  68. asoka September 28, 2009 at 4:20 pm #

    “growing evidence that feedback loops amplifying the effects of man-made greenhouse gas emissions are stronger than previously realized. For example, it has long been understood that global warming will cause the tundra to thaw, releasing carbon dioxide, which will cause even more warming, but new research shows far more carbon locked in the permafrost than previously thought, which means a much bigger feedback effect.
    The result of all this is that climate scientists have, en masse, become Cassandras — gifted with the ability to prophesy future disasters, but cursed with the inability to get anyone to believe them.”
    –Paul Krugman, NYT, Sept. 27, 2009

  69. abbeysbooks September 28, 2009 at 4:38 pm #

    I live in a rural town near Springfield MO but spend a lot of time in St. Charles. Two years ago downtown St. Charles was becoming storefront empty. Away went the coffee shops and antiques and in came the thrift stores.
    Check my comment on Martin Armstrong who has been absolutely right on everything since I discovered him in the early 80’s. Well he won’t divulge his model to the US govt so he has been sitting in jail for 10 years with tight lips.
    They are terrified of him.
    So thank your lucky stars everyone who has been wrong enough to not look like a true seer.

  70. asoka September 28, 2009 at 4:39 pm #

    tomcat16 said: “Optimism is one thing, but you’re seriously deluded dude ”
    I provide rational argument to support my statements. I provide evidence based on what has already happened in the past and based on scientific evidence and facts.
    You are resorting to ad hominem attack.
    And about your advice: “you might find it useful to question everything you see and hear from media sources and politicians” and your blanket statement about politicians: “THEY LIE!” something doesn’t seem right.
    You can have two politicians, let’s take Obama and Joe. Obama states illegals are excluded in the health care reform bill. Joe shouts out “YOU LIE”
    Now, they are both politicians, so according to you they both are lying. So we cannot believe Joe when he says to Obama: YOU LIE because Joe is lying, so Obama is telling the truth. But Obama is lying, too, according to you, so Joe must be telling the truth.
    The world is not so black and white that you can say all politicians are lying when they speak. If you look at the health care reform bill you find the legislation specifically states that “undocumented aliens” will not be eligible for credits to help them buy health insurance (in Section 246 on page 143). So, when you look at the facts, you find Joe was lying and Obama was telling the truth. http://tinyurl.com/n7v4jy
    You might want to question the information you are getting from the blogosphere, or scare emails, and admit the main stream media might tell the truth once in a while.
    Thank me later, or not.

  71. abbeysbooks September 28, 2009 at 4:39 pm #

    Well then you are going to miss my comments. Your loss.

  72. abbeysbooks September 28, 2009 at 4:45 pm #

    No no no! If they stop throwing away yesterday the dumpsters won’t have all those goodies in them. And the landfills are a source of wealth for those that sieve them. It’s just redistribution.

  73. abbeysbooks September 28, 2009 at 5:06 pm #

    Love this link. Thanks. Keep on with it. do you want any contributors on part time basis? Orperhaps we could exchange links? http://www.focusfree.blogspot.com

  74. seb September 28, 2009 at 5:07 pm #

    I think we’re being insulted.
    This discussion area is unmoderated. that can work if everyone is fairly “intelligent”. That’s kind of a loaded word.
    I recommend a free trial on mIRC. There, on the newbie sites, you will often see: Don’t ask if you can ask a question.
    I think Abbysbooks is highly intelligent, and she’s been putting down things to read you don’t usually see. The higher the intelligence the closer to madness, though, and I’d say she is definitely linking to a rather paranoid writer today.
    But see, in the IRC garden, you can post—turn off the joins and quits— and someone will eventually answer just you. If they don’t, try again with something smarter. Or, you can come off the wall with chowderheaded sarcasm and you will be introduced to the status screen, or, as I have just shown you, an answer. Because, we are waiting for a big crash in the economy to comment upon.

  75. abbeysbooks September 28, 2009 at 5:13 pm #

    Well somewhere last week or so I read that 15 container ships cause more pollutionthan 750 million cars on the planet.
    And Wes Jackson of http://www.landinstitute.com fame in his Roots of Agriculture has said in 17 fucking 74 that corn has caused worse environmental disaster than the car.
    Ride thru the midwest David Foster Wallace style corn corn corn Stuckeys corn corn corn Stuckeys especially in the winter when the wind is blowing and watch those 3 tons of topsoil per acre blowing away. Or if it is raining, washing away into the gutter by the side of the road you just missed getting stuck in, and on down the highway.

  76. abbeysbooks September 28, 2009 at 5:17 pm #

    I watched Gore in the movie Who Killed the electric Car? at its opening. Nary a peep out of him when they called them in and smashed them amid protesters and owners hanging on to their bumpers.
    Gore the bore.

  77. Qshtik September 28, 2009 at 5:25 pm #

    “Who eats shoots and leaves”
    I think most of us here (except Zzz, based on his 11:39 AM reply) are aware of the book titled EATS SHOOTS AND LEAVES that deals with the misunderstandings that can result from improper punctuation.
    Since there are no commas, I’ll guess the answer is none of the above. That leaves herbivores of some sort or another as the answer (not the right answer, I’m sure). Now, if you get into rearranging words all sorts of other possibilities open up but I’ve got better things to do with my time.
    BTW, you threw further confusion into the riddle by identifying two of the three men as “The second.” Therefore, since you made at least one mistake in typing your riddle, how do we know you didn’t make another … like leaving out commas in the initial question. In other words, your riddle is fucked up.

  78. abbeysbooks September 28, 2009 at 5:27 pm #

    The stock market is being manipulated to squeeze the last bit of cash from the suckers.
    all those brokers calling their clients and suckering them back in to make their money back and more.
    A TV nation will always fall for it.

  79. Richard Brenne September 28, 2009 at 5:28 pm #

    It’s like each issue represents a poker player in an extremely complex game of three dimensional (whatever that means) poker. Most would assume that technology has the high hand. Or at least inertia, if that’s the best word for a linear progression continuing.
    But Peak Oil and all other resource depletion including that of fresh water, topsoil, nitrogen, fish, trees and many if not most minerals are also at the table, as are climate change, nuclear war, species loss, epidemic and famine. I don’t know if overpopulation and over-consumption represent the house or what, but they’re what drive all the others. (Can someone help me find a better metaphor?)
    But these negatives listed above individually and collectively will prove to have the highest hand for quite a while, I believe. Although genuine spirituality (rarely understood or practiced) is also a player, at least in one’s own life.
    My goal is to amass experts in all areas to identify all the various potential powderkegs (Peak Oil, for instance) and all the potential lightings of the powderkegs’ fuses (war involving Iran, drug cartels overthrowing the Mexican government, terrorists or combatants blocking the Straights of Hormuz, any or any comination leading to Matt Simmons’ run on America’s gas stations) so that we’re not blindsided.
    Being blindsided seems most dangerous of all, because Americans losing their God-given (to their way of thinking though I suspect not to God’s) lifestyles could mean lashing out and creating or inspiring wars and/or genocides that could potentially dwarf those of the last century.
    Or maybe everything will just work out.

  80. abbeysbooks September 28, 2009 at 5:33 pm #

    Yes metals are correct. But if you buy gold bars, they will probably confiscate it soyou will have to sellon the black market and take what you can get. Also they will then watch you in case you have more. People have been murdered and tortured fora lot less.
    Or you can buy junk silver (non numismatic pre 1965 coins) but they are going at a huge premium now.
    Taking delivery is difficult now. Supplies are spoken for. I would stockpile necessities: tools, preserved food, medicine, how to books, PDR’s, surgery techniques, as all these things will be needed and knowledge will keep you alive because you will be needed. Doctors will be OK. Teachers?

  81. zzzzzz September 28, 2009 at 5:34 pm #

    Two quotes:
    “In an interview with the Israeli newspaper Yediot Ahronoth, the Israeli defense minister was quoted as saying that “Iran does not constitute an existential threat against Israel” and that “I am not among those who believe Iran is an existential issue for Israel.” He was responding to a question about Iran’s nuclear program.
    “Israel is strong, I don’t see anyone who could pose an existential threat,” said Barak, who added that he did view Iran as a challenge to the whole world.”
    “Ahmadinejad first made inflammatory comments about Israel a few months after he took office in 2005, when he stated at the World Without Zionism conference in Tehran that “Israel must be wiped off the map.”

  82. gloom_and_doom September 28, 2009 at 5:41 pm #

    What? No mention of the antics of the mad mullahs in Iran ? They are practically begging to be rained on with ordinance. Probably because they know that oil will spike to $200 a barrel in the wake of any attack and such a price spike will cause the world economy to crash and burn. The islamo-crazies in Afghanisan, Pakistan, Iran and elsewhere would get a convincing demonstration of just how fragile the Western democracies really are. The barbarians are at the gate…

  83. zzzzzz September 28, 2009 at 5:43 pm #

    “…all those brokers calling their clients and suckering them back in to make their money back and more.”
    Hey moron, try trading on-line. No brokers involved. You trade (or notr) based on your own research. Its called being an adult.

  84. asoka September 28, 2009 at 5:48 pm #

    zzzzzz, Persian does not have “wiped off the map” in its language. Iran is not a threat to anyone.
    “Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to wipe Israel off the map because no such idiom exists in Persian,” remarked Juan Cole, a Middle East specialist at the University of Michigan and critic of American policy who has argued that the Iranian president was misquoted. “He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse.” Since Iran has not “attacked another country aggressively for over a century,” he said in an e-mail exchange, “I smell the whiff of war propaganda.” — NYTimes Week in Review
    I deal in facts, not insults, and I refuse to respond in kind to your shouting in capital letters.

  85. zzzzzz September 28, 2009 at 5:58 pm #

    Then if he did not say this, why do his own countrymen who do speak the language, claim he did? Read on Fucktard And then, once again, SHUT THE FUCK UP!
    “President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Wednesday that Israel is a “disgraceful blot” that should be “wiped off the map,” prompting international condemnation and an Israeli demand Iran be expelled from the United Nations.
    On Sunday, Ahmadinejad said his comments represented Iran’s long-standing policy toward the Jewish state enunciated by the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, who led the 1979 revolution, the Islamic Republic News Agency, or IRNA, said.
    “These words are the same ones that the late Imam (Khomeini) said,” Ahmadinejad said, explaining that he only added one sentence about “the powers of arrogance,” seen as a reference to the United States. Iran does not recognize the existence of Israel and Khomeini had repeatedly called for its destruction.
    But former reformist president Mohammad Khatami criticized Ahmadinejad, saying “those words have created hundreds of political and economic problems for us in the world,” IRNA said.
    It was the first time in a quarter century that there was a clear-cut rift over a major policy position drawn up by Khomeini.
    “Ahmadinejad’s remarks harmed Iran. It was irresponsible and illogical,” said Rajabali Mazrouei, a prominent reformer and former deputy. “We can’t be more extremist than Palestinians themselves.”
    Morad Veisi, a leading political analyst, said it was the first time that an Iranian head of state was openly calling for the destruction of Israel.

  86. george September 28, 2009 at 6:06 pm #

    This week’s Time Magazine has an excellent essay on the decline of America’s automotive capital. Aptly titled “The Tragedy of Detroit” the piece is beautifully illustrated by haunting photos of Detroit’s ruins. Living only a mile away in economically distressed Windsor, Ontario, I am all too familiar with the consequences of reckless economic policies that encourage growth at any cost and reward the wealthy parasites on Wall Street or Bay Street at the expense of everyone and everything else. If anyone thinks that Peak Oil is nothing more than a myth, then they should pay a visit to Detroit and ponder what happened to a city that was the primary beneficiary of America’s Oil Age.

  87. suburbanempire September 28, 2009 at 6:06 pm #

    Been to Kmart lately? Get the idea that the place is owned by satanic frat boys? There’s a reason for that…….
    Anti Suburbia, Anti Empire, all sass….. served up fresh almost daily in Vermont!

  88. zzzzzz September 28, 2009 at 6:12 pm #

    “Dr. Sadegh Zibakalam, a professor of political science at Tehran University, said Ahmadinejad’s comments put Iran in a difficult position on the international scene. “In my view, whatever the views and feeling of Ahmadinejad are about Israel and Palestine, he should not forget that he speaks as an official of the Islamic Republic. He speaks as the president of Iran and when he says very clearly that Israel should be eradicated, a country that has been accepted by the UN. This is against all international principles and agreements and it is not in line with rational and acceptable behavior that is expected by the heads of countries. On the one hand we say why is the world so sensitive about our nuclear program, on the other hand if we want the international community to respect us then we also have to follow some international norms and principles,” Zibakalam said.”
    Hey ass-hoke-ah, no comment? Mullah’s got your tongue?

  89. zzzzzz September 28, 2009 at 6:21 pm #

    “… I am all too familiar with the consequences of reckless economic policies that encourage growth at any cost and reward the wealthy parasites…”
    So all the generations of families that worked in the auto industry bought homes, raised families and sent kids to college were not in any way rewarded? Only the wealthy parasites made out? Sure. You betcha.

  90. zzzzzz September 28, 2009 at 6:30 pm #

    Read the following:
    “The “Financial Times” today reported that European diplomats suggested the comments would not derail efforts by France, Britain, and Germany to get Iran to return to the negotiating table and halt work at its uranium-conversion facility in Isfahan”
    Now here is the funny part. The paragraph is a concluding statement from an article written in 2005. This was before the announcement of a second “uranium-conversion facility’ just recently announced. Four years of jaw-jawing and one additional “uranium-conversion facility” later and France, Britain Germany and the U.S. are making the exact claims. They think negotiating will change Iran’s ways. Go fucking figure.

  91. Tomcat16 September 28, 2009 at 6:31 pm #

    asoka, you kind of missed the point: question the source before you believe anything. It’s not that complicated – no need for rational argument or scientific evidence/facts (or Latin).
    And if the blogosphere is so horrible, then why are you here?

  92. rocco September 28, 2009 at 6:32 pm #

    “conclusions ougth to proceed from evidence”
    Great point Jim! Another elegant post, but folks do not want evidenced based solutions, they want wishes, prayers, magic spells. Even in the peak oil sites, all show evidence from science guys to support their views,but these same peak oil guys will refuse the evidence that states alternative medicine is pure bull.( quackwatch.com or childresnhealthcare.org) That evidence which goes against their views will be thrown out or called government, or corporate non sense. How can you think we will slove our problems with the energy and money when the peak oil sites themselves chase magical solutions and dreams. Even folks who post on this site worry about blacks, Italians or Martian plots. Logic, facts evidence based solutions require hard physical and mental labor,and to face them we must give up our childhood dreams of magic and something for nothing world view.

  93. asoka September 28, 2009 at 7:25 pm #

    zzzzz said: “Then if he did not say this, why do his own countrymen who do speak the language, claim he did? Read on Fucktard And then, once again, SHUT THE FUCK UP!”
    Anyone who uses the translation from Persian to English as “wiped off the map” is wrong. You are relying on Western sources. And they are wrong.
    He also did not call for the destruction of Israel. He said the “regime” (the government) would eventually vanish, that will happen. Ahmadinejad is right. No violence will be necessary.
    I am relying on Juan Cole, who knows both languages. When you go to the original language what he said was “vanish” in an intransitive form of the verb. You are wrong to believe the verb means “wiped”, zzzzzz.
    “However, contra John McCain, Ahmadinejad didn’t call for Israel to be “wiped off the map” (as virtually every expert translator from Juan Cole to MEMRI agrees). What Ahmadinejad did say … was this:
    Imam (i.e., Khomeini) ghoft (‘said’) een rezhim-e (‘this regime’) eshghalgar-e (‘occupying’) Qods (‘Jerusalem’) bayad (‘should’ or ‘must’) az safheh-ye (‘from the page of’) ruzgar (‘time’ or ‘daily life’) mahv shavad (‘fade’ or ‘disappear’ or ‘be obliterated,’ depending on context).
    The Persian words for ‘country’ are keshvar and mamlekat, and the Persian for ‘nation’ is mellat, which, like English ‘nation’, can be a synonym for ‘a people’ (as in the party of the great Iranian democrat Darioush Forouhar, Hebz-e Mellat-e Iran, which could be rendered equally acceptably as “Party of the Nation of Iran” or “Party of the People of Iran”). Yet the object of Ahmadinejad’s sentence is rezhim, which is (obviously) a direct importation of ‘regime’ that only and always refers to a particular government and, as in English, has technical and pejorative connotations. Moreover, Persian has no “wipe off the map” idiom, and even if it did, applying that idiom to ‘regime’ rather than ‘country’ or ‘nation’ is just a category error.”
    Iran is not a threat to anybody. And the USA needs to back off and stop trying to whip up war hysteria.

  94. abbeysbooks September 28, 2009 at 7:29 pm #

    I think so too.

  95. abbeysbooks September 28, 2009 at 7:33 pm #

    Most fairy tales have happy endings. This is not a fairy tale.

  96. Geodesiq September 28, 2009 at 7:35 pm #

    It’s surprising that one of the chief PO proponents doesn’t know where to invest his money. Go long oil. I.E. get Futures Options calls on oil. Put your money where your word processor is. I have an even half dozen and will buy more on “corrections”. It’s not too difficult. I use OptionsXpress.com. Their customer support is very good. They’ll hold your hand.

  97. Qshtik September 28, 2009 at 7:48 pm #

    I hear ya SEB … I’m really gonna miss Safire too.

  98. abbeysbooks September 28, 2009 at 8:13 pm #

    Iran is not a threat, but the fatwa wielding religious leaders are. And coupled with a crazy fanatic like Ahmadinejad we should be very afraid.

  99. Qshtik September 28, 2009 at 8:17 pm #

    Lori, if you watch the market long enough you begin to realize that perverse is its natural state. Only during brief periods are market averages and the economy moving in lockstep.

  100. abbeysbooks September 28, 2009 at 8:19 pm #

    How did Bush ever deal with this confusion?

  101. asoka September 28, 2009 at 8:20 pm #

    To all those who voted for Reagan and Bush. You put our country into debt because you elected tax-cutting, government shrinking, free-market worshipping, deregulating, trickle-down, union-busting, outsourcing, increased-military-spending, fear-mongering Republican, Ayn Rand-supporting economic policies.
    Greenspan now sees that Obama is doing the right thing.
    “…the financial crisis has persuaded Greenspan that the “intellectual edifice” buttressing radical free-market ideology has, in his words, “collapsed.”
    I knew we were headed to where we arrived in 2008 as soon as Reagan declared the government to be the enemy. Deregulation led to the Keating Five, Enron, etc. because free markets do not regulate themselves. Reagan was wrong. Government is needed. Big government. And higher taxes on the rich… the sooner the better.
    Support Obama to get the Consumer Financial Protection Agency established. Greenspan is on board.
    Dump Ayn Rand. Her followers destroyed our economy between 1980 and 2008.

  102. Puzzler September 28, 2009 at 8:27 pm #

    “How did Bush ever deal with this confusion?”
    He took an eight year nap and stayed out of Cheney’s way.

  103. abbeysbooks September 28, 2009 at 8:39 pm #

    Sounds like you are moving with a huge crowd who are betting on the same thing. Careful.
    How much premium is packed into one of those options?

  104. Jaego Scorzne September 28, 2009 at 8:41 pm #

    David Duke agrees with you-and he has many European sources. Truly the Zionists contol our Foreign Policy and have been instrumental in almost every war of the 20th century. And they have been itching for war with Iran for years. But why should we do it for them? Let Israel do it and suffer the consequences.
    But there is another side to it. I like Ahmadinejad from what I’ve seen. He has the most spiritual demeanor of any world leader. And he dresses most humbly. But the fact remains that their kind spirituality is fatal to other kinds. It is very difficult to live with the Muslims. You have to be willing to be a dhimmi, a second class citizen. And beyond this is the retribution factor. The Palestinians will never forgive the Jews for what they have done. If the chance presents itself, they will drive them into the sea-at the very least. Granted Israeli actions have been horrific, but the past can’t be undone. The West stupidly helped Israel develop Nuclear Weapons. The Germans gave them a nuclear sub that carries dozens of warheads. The French built an impenetrable underground missile base. Are the Israelis greatful? Of course not-one of them publicly threatened Europe saying that Israel could take out every European capital-and He was correct in that btw.
    So what is the answer? There is none. There is no solution. It’s a test-as Maslow said, the developed person is comfortable with ambiguity. The Palestinians will never forgive or forget. And the Israelis will never give up the West Bank. And your thinking in black and white terms-Israel and West bad and Iran and Islam good-doesn’t help anyone and only make you look silly.
    The answer is for us to stay out of it. Imagine if we had stayed out of WW1, 2, Korea and Vietnam? What a great Country we might have been. We didn’t listen to the Founding Fathers and we have paid. Correction: we are only begining to pay, you aint seen nothing yet.

  105. asoka September 28, 2009 at 8:57 pm #

    JS said: “And your thinking in black and white terms-Israel and West bad and Iran and Islam good…”
    This is a gross oversimplification and a monstruous misrepresentation of my position.

  106. Jaego Scorzne September 28, 2009 at 9:02 pm #

    Yes confiscation is a great fear. Incredible that it has come to this-since bimetalism was the monetary policy from the begining. The Dollar is not arbitrary. According to the Coinage Act of 1792, a dollar was to be either: a gold coin, 27.5 grains, 90% pure, 10% alloy added for durability; or a silver coin, 412.5 grains, 90% pure, with 10% alloy added for durability.
    Everything other than this or a paper note in liu of this, is illegal according to the Real Law of the Land-which was in accord with eternal principles of Justice.
    The other thing they don’t want you to know, is the economic miracle of Nazi Germany-accomplished without Central Banking and without gold for that matter. Hitler like our own Jackson, stood up to the Bankers and told them to go to Hell. Whatever Germany didn’t have, they would barter for-the real reason for WW2-the Banker Middlemen Parasites were being cut out. Once the world understood what was going on, the Bankers would have been finished forever. So you can have a viable economic system without gold-the social credit movement of Douglas wich Ezra Pound supported, is a fine example of this. But it’s not our Tradition. It would take alot more Social Capital than we have any more; and lacking that, alot more supervision than Patriots would care for. So we’ll stick to our own, but it’s good to understand other good ways.

  107. jack tobin September 28, 2009 at 9:20 pm #

    have you seen ellen brown’s “the web of debt”? an outstanding book.

  108. JMNYC September 28, 2009 at 9:30 pm #

    A country we can recognize. I don’t think that will ever happen again. There’s a huge billboard –actually many huge billboard–in Times Square with an enormous negro wearing only underwear. Imagine that 40 years ago? Signs and wonders. The Dismal Tide.

  109. Jaego Scorzne September 28, 2009 at 9:40 pm #

    A scientist in the 1800’s found an inverse relationship between the number of sunspots and the price of grain. We are in a sunspot drought indicative of a cooling Earth. Even the orthodox climatologists are saying that now. A couple of degrees cooler would be catastrophic-far more serious than a few degrees warmer. The warming we could adjust too-move people, build dikes, etc. The cooling will immediately cause crop failures leading to shortages and famine. Indeed, these are already begining. Some more daring say that it could be the begining of a little ice age. Others even more daring, say that it could be the start of the Big One-which has come every 12,000 or so years for a long, long time. Interglacials are the exception. Ice Ages are the Norm. We’ve been on vacation-now it’s back to work. Can we preserve Civilization? We didn’t do it the last time-that’s all we know. We probably we wont be able to this time either. As Conan said, Barbarism is the natural state of man.
    If we can keep going, the Norwegians have preserved all the food seeds in existence in a great vault on the island of Svalbard in the Arctic. It means the Cold Edge in Norse. Also in that movie the Amber Spyglass.
    Melting ice caps? Underwater volcanism caused by magnetic activity in the Earth perhaps ultimately caused by the activity of the Sun. They are dancing-the Sun leads. Masculine/Feminine. At a dance I used to go to, the coming thing was for women to lead. Everything is distorted in this Age of Kali. So if you wanted to get with them, you have to become feminine-so they can become masculine. And in fact, some of the men there talked in high voices so to make these women feel comfortable.

  110. Jaego Scorzne September 28, 2009 at 9:51 pm #

    The lady doth protest too much…Face it Asoka, you are in agreement with David Duke. Politics makes very strange bedfellows you know. White Nationalists have alot in common with Black Nationalists-we speak the same language. And the Nazis and the hard core Zionists cooperated to get people to Israel-deny it as they will now. The Mixers are the Enemies of all the Free Peoples of Midgard or Middle Earth.
    Peter Jackson, the producer of the movies, faced incredible pressure to put Blacks in the movie. But knowing that the books were based on Northern European mythology, he stuck to his guns and excluded them. How grotesque it would have been to have Black Elves or Hobbits! Gary Coleman!
    And Santa Claus is also a White thing. BUFU baby.
    Black Santas are wrong. Just wrong.

  111. asia September 28, 2009 at 9:58 pm #

    war is peace
    lies are truth
    however since the dows been weak for 9 years…I dont call that robust….but ‘ BUST’

  112. asia September 28, 2009 at 10:01 pm #

    right now the cultural minister of france is too busy trying to get sarkosy [?] to protect polanski the rapist….the french are so worried for their hero

  113. asia September 28, 2009 at 10:04 pm #

    I have read of the seafaring pollution industry
    And i have a friend who works in a way to attempt to ‘green ‘ the industry by cleaning barnacles off the ships…cuts down on fuel costs…
    he says most of the ship companies are 100% uninterested in conservation…even if they are told its good for the bottom line!

  114. asia September 28, 2009 at 10:12 pm #

    childresnhealthcare.org =
    childrens ”

  115. asia September 28, 2009 at 10:14 pm #

    ‘asoka, you kind of missed the point’
    ARE YOU NEW HERE? The point with Asok is he misses the point….like perspective in a grandma moses painting….its way off

  116. asia September 28, 2009 at 10:16 pm #

    1 in 3 in australiais foriegn born
    But foriegners cant buy a house there!

  117. asoka September 28, 2009 at 10:19 pm #

    Asia, brother, that hurt.
    “ARE YOU NEW HERE? The point with Asok is he misses the point.”
    What is the point? I seemed to have missed it!

  118. asia September 28, 2009 at 10:20 pm #

    ‘Even if America survives, they may well confiscate our Gold’
    the USA bears little resemblance to itself of even 30 years ago
    1930 was about 80 years ago
    history may repeat itself in that NO EMPIRE IS FOREVER

  119. asia September 28, 2009 at 10:23 pm #

    The point is this is an ‘end times ‘ blog…like i just hinted at to JS..and you are so cheery!
    most folks here dont see the govt as ‘helpful’
    michigan…15% unemployment….Official stats
    cali…….12% ” ” ”
    and you talk bout APPLE doin 3 billion and things are alright

  120. asoka September 28, 2009 at 10:23 pm #

    JS said: “Yes confiscation is a great fear. ”
    I have no metal or paper. I have no fear.
    Those who lay up great treasures on earth won’t be able to take them with them anyway, but they will spend a great deal of energy buying, selling, worrying, fretting, and fearing. What a way to live!

  121. asoka September 28, 2009 at 10:25 pm #

    JS said: “Face it Asoka, you are in agreement with David Duke.”
    I have faced it. Even if Duke agrees with me on one thing, that does not mean I agree with Duke on anything else.
    Even David Duke cannot be wrong 100% of the time!

  122. asoka September 28, 2009 at 10:29 pm #

    Asia said: “The point is this is an ‘end times ‘ blog”
    Hmmmmm…. I thought it was a Clusterfuck blog. Clusterfuck just means we got problems to work on. It doesn’t mean the problems are intractable or that the end times are near.
    PALIN/JINDAL 2012 (please, oh please let it be!)

  123. Tomcat16 September 28, 2009 at 10:32 pm #


  124. Tomcat16 September 28, 2009 at 10:33 pm #

    yes, I’m just now beginning to realize this

  125. Jaego Scorzne September 28, 2009 at 11:06 pm #

    Why not Scorzne/Palin in 2012? Together we will rule and midway thru the first term we will wed. That will get us the feminine vote and “shoe” us in for 2016, if Civilization lasts of course and the Maya are wrong. There will be no election after that-we will reign as King and Queen. As C.S Lewis says, “we long to bow the head and bend the knee.” We are always trying to make our Presidents into Kings-why not just do it? Perhaps Washington should have just become a King as all the royalty of Europe expected. It sure would have saved alot of trouble. And it’s better than worshiping someone as a God the way they want to do with Obama. Indeed Monarchy is a happy medium-and we could still have a Constitution of sorts too. But I want to have some power at least and not just be a figure head. Get on it boys.

  126. asia September 28, 2009 at 11:14 pm #

    yr an artist?
    what kinda day job did you have?
    i heard C.A. Fitts…of solari.com on KPFK today
    hearing what she says from someone who worked hi up in the govt is sobering

  127. asia September 28, 2009 at 11:19 pm #

    I havent rad JHKs new book…..did you ?
    have you read ‘ THE LONG EMERGENCY’?
    Even in that he predicted ‘die back’

  128. asia September 28, 2009 at 11:21 pm #

    It took 1300 US agents to arrest 40 members of the NOTORIOUS GANG !!!!!
    This story courtesy of Sam Logan ISN:
    Prison gangs work hand in hand with drug cartels. (Photo: California Department of Corrections)Prison gangs work hand in hand with drug cartels. (Photo: California Department of Corrections)Mexican organized crime relies on gangs inside the United States for distribution and support, US gangs that pose real threats as foot soldiers, informants, tax collectors and assassins for the drug cartels.
    The November 2008-April 2009 federal trial of six members of the Barrio Azteca prison gang was indeed one of revelations: former gang members, policemen and other witnesses testified to the gang’s inner workings and, most significantly, to its connections to Mexican organized crime.
    It was the first time this information had been aired in the public domain; yet the trial demonstrated only a small slice of the murky world of growing ties between Mexican criminal bosses and street gang foot soldiers doing their bidding north of the border.
    The trial solidified what some analysts have argued for years: connections exist between the Barrio Azteca, an El Paso-based prison gang, and top-level members of the Juarez Cartel drug trafficking organization (DTO) run by the Carrillo Fuentes family.
    The six men were tried in a federal court under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) Act. This same legislation was used to dismantle La Cosa Nostra in New York, and has most recently been used by prosecutors in Tennessee and Maryland to break up cliques of the Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13).
    Green Harvest
    The trial underlined the very real threat that US gangs pose inside the United States as foot soldiers, informants, tax collectors and assassins for Mexican organized crime.
    The Barrio Azteca story
    ………………………….AD NAUSEUM

  129. asoka September 28, 2009 at 11:48 pm #

    Gangs of notorious bankers are still dealing derivatives inside USA borders. More than 1,100 banks now trade in derivatives, a 14 percent increase from last year, and pose a very real threat. They pose as mostly white foot soldiers for the robber class of white organized crime.
    The same old story AD NAUSEUM.

  130. suburbanempire September 28, 2009 at 11:57 pm #

    New England Gas and Electric placed an ad endorsing a nuclear Iran….

  131. abbeysbooks September 29, 2009 at 12:02 am #

    Much as I want to agree with yo abut Rand,it is not her fault. Why? Because we don’t have free-market capitalism. I heard her say in 1960 or 61 that if the Goldwater people got control they would doom capitalism as they held contradictions in their philosophy. And the result would be that capitalism would take the fall. Be the scapegoat. She was right there.
    Her major fault, and it is a huge one, is in accompanying Greenspan to his swearing in ceremony for entrance in the fed. No Rand hero would have any truck with that organization. Nathaniel Branden and Greenspan used to dish it. I took an economic lectures from Greenspan and I don’t even want to go into how his lectures made me turn down a NASA grant and ruin my career.
    The pure Randians hate Greenspan and have repudiated him since Rand died at least. His name is not to be mentioned or discussed.
    I don’t disagree with Rand baiting, but I do wish it were accurate. Anyone who could base his lifework on Rand has a limited intelligence. That he was so powerful and ruined the economics of the world is tribute to the stupidity of almost everyone who sang his praises while I shuddered all by myself as I knew from the moment he became chief that we were in for it. He did a 180 turn from who he had been before so I knew he was capable of any perfidy imaginable.
    I read parts of his memoirs (after he left the fed) and looked in the index for the Rand people I had known. No acknowledgment to Nathaniel Branden who gave him the confidence to become what he became. A hat tip to Barbara Branden, a real dimwit blonde if I ever knew one. And a glowing tribute to Rand’s amazing intelligence. Amazing intelligence! Even after he retired from the fed, that late in his life! Gimme a break! Everyone knows she was a dingbat and a lying hypocrite.

  132. abbeysbooks September 29, 2009 at 12:07 am #

    Jaego I give up on you. Your thinking has been getting sloppier and sloppier.

  133. cuddletuffy September 29, 2009 at 12:21 am #

    lsjogren –
    You have a well thought-out analysis and well written post. My impression was the same as yours, though your synopsis of Schiff’s analysis helped me distill it down more succinctly. Well done.
    What I thought was interesting was Prechter not discounting hyper-inflation or deflation. In other words, they are both possibilities, where he believes we’ll have massive deleveraging, and only after we have discovered the true prices of all things, can the government’s debt and printing press result in hyper-inflation.
    I think we lived through that a bit last year. I know Jim Puplava made major mistakes as an investor. I am not badmouthing JP either, he is a human and not infallible. I believe he is honest, but his call on the 2009 crash and how he handled it was devastating to new portfolios where he was buying energy and commodity-based concerns in the spring of ’08, and clung to them all the way to the bottom in March, only to turn into a bear in April/May and sell out of some positions and take the losses.
    Again, JP is a well-intentioned man and we don’t know if his long run views will pan out. The point here, is, if the outcome is some of both, you could get totally wiped out trying to play only one side. It could be we will lurch around between both in various sectors at varying times.
    That said, I think we all need to consider that it is possible that we could have both outcomes. I think that is another way of saying what Schiff has been saying for years now. Namely, prices have to come down in the US because of all of the un-competitive and unsound economic structures. However, the government’s militarism and decades of monetary stimulus will also ensure the destruction of the dollar at the same time that happens.
    Bill Fleckenstein, (on kingsworld news), is predicting an inflationary environment that will not turn into hyper-inflation.
    It seems to me, and I am no expert on energy or economics, that hyper-inflation would be a no-win situation. In fact, the strategies for dealing with hyper-inflation discussed by Schiff and Puplava seem to be better suited to 70’s style inflation and not hyper-inflation. In hyper-inflation almost everyone will be destroyed, along with the final blow to any remaining moral fabric in society. The only winners will be those who take out a lot of fixed-interest debt now, and have income streams that can keep pace with the rate of inflation. They’ll own everything they borrowed to buy essentially for free by virtue of paying off loans with worthless money. I don’t think there is any other way to profit from hyper-inflation, and even that is a long shot where you better hit the right purchases and guarantee your income streams.
    Also, imagine the moral implications for destroying peoples savings. Look at the rage that is boiling now for people who know their tax money is being used to give people $8K and $4K towards buying homes and cars this year. Destroy people’s savings, (which has already been done to Social Security and Medicaid), and you have a lot of angry people and the seeds sewn for inter-generational warfare.
    There is no way real-estate values, (real values), will recover in our lifetimes. How can the stock market maintain its current valuations when: a) we have to undergo a huge fundamental shift in our economy to drive earnings that support them (from consumerism and paper to production and durables) b) what will the mechanism be for getting the money into the economy – 100 yr. method of fractional reserve banking appears to be broken on account of to much system-wide debt and massive employment that has no current prospect for meaningful improvement.
    To respond to JHK’s post, I’d say that Dent not believing in peak oil doesn’t mean his analysis of the inflation/deflation outcome is wrong. I do believe that his argument against peak-oil is the same as all counter-peakers that I’ve heard so far. Namely, technology will solve the problem. I think this argument unwittingly confirms the peak oil theory by virtue of the fact that technology has been very poor at aiding with discovery of any meaningful significance to the supply side in the last 25 years, and very good at significantly increasing the demand side of the equation in terms of both quantity and rate. Combine that fact with production peak in ’06 and the looming peak in Cantarell, and it is a very poor argument.
    Are there any good counter-peak-oil arguments out there? So far, I haven’t come across any, but I feel I owe it to myself to find and contemplate some if they exist. Surely, they must? I think it would be a very good thing to have as an analysis much like Jim Puplava has done a huge service to free-thinkers in having his inflation-deflation debate.
    Has he already had such a series on FSN in the past? Is this something you’ve covered or would be interested in covering JHK?

  134. Tomcat16 September 29, 2009 at 12:48 am #

    Yeah, artist/musician now. I was in computer/IT/web design for the last 13 years.

  135. ctemple September 29, 2009 at 1:26 am #

    Nobody can predict everything, but I feel that it’s pretty clear that many things have been going backward for some time now. The country has been running trade deficits since the early 1970’s, the amount of oil that we’re importing has increased steadily over the last thirty five years. The currency has lost eighty percent of value against foreign money over about the last eight years. We’ve lost much of the industry we had fifty years ago, the only things we seem to be good at are shopping, running up debt, and starting wars.
    The same bunch of rich cocksuckers who gave us much of this in the first place, after having stolen much of the people’s money, is now busy taking as much of the government’s money as they can grab.
    Who knows where it’s going to end.

  136. Jaego Scorzne September 29, 2009 at 2:49 am #

    Why you hatin’ on me for? (Black English, standard) When no one is around, I let loose. I’m not just a think shop but a visionary, mystic, and joker. Just pretend I’m Black-that will give you infinite patience. You will think I’m inventing new forms of mathematics when I twitch or shuffle.
    And anyway, you can’t give up on me, you already conceded defeat late last week. You said you don’t generalize about Blacks but just take them as individuals. Don’t generalize? In other words, you don’t conceptualize since generalization is one of the most basic forms of thinking. That sounds like concession to me. Well I do generalize and I can also take them one by one too. Yes, it’s possible. Try it. It’s like talking and walking at the same time. But you know this-this is just an intellectual defence mechanism. You know that Blacks are less intelligent in general. It’s like the OJ Simpson murder trial. There was no evidence that anyone else did it and all kinds of evidence that OJ did do it. So what does the defence do? Ad hominem a la “racis'”(Black English, youth)
    There is no evidence that Blacks are our equals and there is immense evidence that they are not. When put against the wall, the liberal talks nonsense about “racism”. No Maam. You have to prove your outrageous claim that these stone age people walking around causing mayhem on our streets are our equals. It has already been proven that they are not by the specialists in the field of psychometrics. You want to challenge them? Good luck. You’ll need it.

  137. suburbanempire September 29, 2009 at 4:15 am #

    New England Gas&Electric published an ad in 1975 promoting a nuclear facility in Iran…..
    left wing, anti suburban, anti empire, all sass… from folks in Vermont

  138. SNAFU September 29, 2009 at 10:34 am #

    “The whole Global Warming thing is another Elitist Scam…… Many of the scientists quoted are now violently opposed to what has been said in their name.”
    Have you perchance a bit more information about these “many” such as: names, titles, degrees, employment histories, country of citizenship, group affiliations, etc.? Is it possible the “many” are close relatives to the well known “they”?

  139. auntiegrav September 29, 2009 at 11:03 am #

    Tools. Skills. Neighbors. Land.
    That’s where to put the cash: put it into things that can make cash later with the sweat of your brow. We have spent the last 100 years replacing people’s manual value with oil. That process will reverse to some degree due to overshoot, even if we do discover some new source of energy, because the consumption bubble was of at least two parts: cheap energy and faith in perpetual growth. The real loss is not the energy, but the faith in an unachievable system of systems.
    Somebody has to do the work. Be ready and the cash won’t matter.

  140. jerry September 29, 2009 at 11:04 am #

    I have no responses to whether Peak Oil is a concern or not. But, what I can respond to is what exists currently. And that is that Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania had an exercise in Marshall Law during the “Dick”nitaries stay during the G-20 summit. While on the ground documenting the invasion by around 4-5000 Jackboots of different sources, the 7 sq. miles in which it occurred resembled Kabul in 2001, which has over 16 sq. miles!
    The US government was training its Jackboots for a potential take over of some cities or towns. Even the National Guard was arresting and attacking its own citizens in Pittsburgh.
    Now, don’t tell me that 25-50 youthful anarchist types wearing Sketchers or Air Jordans had it all over the military warranting this takeover of Pittsburgh, as the “Dick”nitaries wined and dined and hung out within the convention center’s Green Zone?
    Somethin’s happening here, but I don’t know exactly where, but there’s a man over there with a gun……..you gotta be ‘ware……Something is coming, but I don’t know just when it is.

  141. Qshtik September 29, 2009 at 11:27 am #

    William Safire passed away on Sunday. I don’t think I missed his weekly On Language column once in 20 years.
    On Monday, in addition to an obituary, the Times re-ran a Safire article originally written in 2005 titled How to Read a Column. He listed 12 rules. Rule #4 reads as follows:
    When infuriated by an outrageous column, do not be suckered into responding with an abusive email. Pundits so targeted thumb through these red-faced electronic missives with delight, saying “Hah! Got to ’em.”
    Does this remind you of any particular CFN commenter? If not, let me jog your memory with a hint: his handle begins and ends with the same vowel (and it’s not Asia).
    Many of you are being suckered big time by this slimy eel. I was too for awhile till I caught on. I’m new at this blogging game … that’s my excuse. What’s yours?

  142. Neil Lori September 29, 2009 at 11:49 am #

    Neil Lori Montclair NJ maverick17761784@yahoo.com
    thinks that Jim Kunstler and Dmitry Orlov are right on about the crash/collapse/depression aka long emergency for the following reasons
    1. Job Market = few jobs and many job seekers {law of supply and demand kicks in} We now have 1980’s wages and 21st century prices
    2. Housing = supply is way up and demand is way down. Mortgage defaults continue. Many mortgages are under water
    3. Commercial real estate = too many places for lease or rent
    4. Treasury department printing more money at breakneck speed aka repeat of the Weimar Republic of Germany in 1920’s.
    Neil Lori {I could go on but you get the point}

  143. Diana Carra September 29, 2009 at 12:18 pm #

    I think you are right in bringing the Black Swan observations into this discussion of guestimating how long it takes a dying mule to kick its last, and how to keep from being kicked to death yourself in the process. This is a Black Swan event, because even Roman and Mayan parallels do not rise to the level of this collapse. But in the case of the Roman Empire, surprises a la Harry Dent were pulled out of the hat. After the Antonines, general collapse seemed imminent, but a determined purging by tough minded army officals kicked the deadwood aristocrats out of the legions and administration, and kept things going a while. The Mayans, too, when faced with the degradation of their society on so many levels, did introduce some Dent innovations, such as offering penile blood of the elite to the gods, shed by threading a rope of thorns through the tender flesh. Both Mayan and Roman responses only delayed the inevitable. (What? You think requiring that kind of action from a ruling Mayan wouldn’t improve his attention to detail?) I too would like to know the answer to deflation/inflation debates, but in the long run it really doesn’t matter. Any kind of response right now seems more likely to fall into the category of the Mayan actions than the actions taken by the practical minded Romans. Meanwhile, stay as far away from the dying mule as you can get.

  144. Puzzler September 29, 2009 at 12:33 pm #

    “…offering penile blood of the elite to the gods, shed by threading a rope of thorns through the tender flesh.”
    That would work even better than term limits in getting the dead wood (so to speak) out of government — but the women would need something equally compelling.

  145. Puzzler September 29, 2009 at 12:35 pm #

    I swear I only clicked submit once — this is really hinky software.

  146. Jaego Scorzne September 29, 2009 at 12:45 pm #

    Yes, a complete tragedy that the National Guard-who are supposed to be State Troops under the control of the Governor, are now just more Federal Goons. And some Ass Klowns still talk about how they are a the Militia as defined in the Constitution! Even China was more of a Society than we are now. To crush the Tianemen Square movement, they brought in troops from hundreds of miles away-they didn’t trust the Peking units to fire on their own people. The Feds here have nothing to worry about at all on that score. People here have no tribal or clan loyalties. Anyone like that is suspect-they might be a “racist”-a complete nonsense word.
    And we have let them do it for all the reasons Mr Kunstler talks about-basically incredible consumer self indulgence perhaps fueled as a reaction to an incredible stressful and unhappy work life. All over America people thank God it’s Friday so they can relax, spend, drink, go to sports events-basically amusing ourselves to death as Neil Postman put it. In a real Society, there wouldn’t be this overwhelming psychic dichotomy between work and play. Sure it’s good to knock off work but this degree of aversion, alienation, and exhaustion is jut not viable. Something went really wrong…on a lot of different levels.

  147. Jaego Scorzne September 29, 2009 at 12:51 pm #

    Democracy: two wolves and a lamb deciding what’s for dinner.
    Zionism: Can the Jew and Gentile lay down together in peace? Of course, just as the Lion and the Lamb can. Just provide a new Lamb everyday.

  148. Jaego Scorzne September 29, 2009 at 1:03 pm #

    Women have forgotten that monogamy is a high cultural achievment. The nubile in the book got a good deal-a decent man who would care for her and her child. Many will not be so lucky. She could have easily ended up as a bed warmer for the local Warlord. Or much better: a mistress for the Judge on his medieval fiefdom. Indeed many women would choose the latter over what actually did happen in the story. In a purely “natural” environment-women would go to where the resouces are. Better mistress or third wife to a very rich man than wife to a poor one. In such a natural society-many men would be poor and thus without feminine companionship, thus fueling resentment, prostitution, apathy, and rebellion. What prevents all this is a Social Contract-and the censure that comes from breaking it. Well the Contract is over with and the censure is dying. Nature here we come.

  149. asia September 29, 2009 at 1:52 pm #

    I attend classes at a very ‘liberal [yech] progressive multicultural college that has a requirement in ‘ global citizenship’ to graduate.
    Fortunately i dont wanna graduate i just want an education
    someone here said US $ has lost 80% OF ITS VALUE!!!
    And I dont argue global warming exists. One arrogant Prof said ‘im one of 2 conservatives who teach here, global warming doesnt exist and its a scam to get yr $’
    THE LAST BIT I AGREE WITH…if hes talkin cap n trade….the govt does what it can to tax and control us err ‘consumers’
    and on a very different note…MORE ON OBAMA
    from fire andrea mitchell.com
    Ms Mitchell is married to greenspan
    Kevin Jennings – latest Obama Safe School Czar hid pedophila from authorities
    Another day, another radical whackjob Obama Czar appointed. This one, Kevin Jennings, is a former teacher and now the “Safe Schools Czar”. Jennings was appointed to the position mainly because of his record of working to end bullying and discrimination in schools. Thats cool, so whats the problem? Well i’d say advocated promoting homosexuality in schools, past drug abuse, contempt for religion are a bit troubling. But maybe the most disturbing about this whackjob is a detailed an incident in which Kevin Jennings did not report an underage student who told him he was having sex with older men. Do not take this to mean Jennings was the man involved, but the fact he did not report this incident is absolutely disgusting.
    Obama giving $400,000 in funding to a Libyan charity run by the Gadhafi family
    Want to see some more ‘great’ use of your taxpayer money? How about $400,000 Muammar Gadhafi’s family members for two of their charities? CBS2 in Chicago (surprisingly) actually posted the details on their website. The money would be divided between two foundations run by the family of Libyan leader Muammar Gadhafi. A $200,000 share is set to go to the Gadhafi Development Foundation, which is run by Gadhafi’s son, Saif, and another $200,000 are to go to Wa Attassimou, an organization run by Muammar Gadhafi’s daughter, Aisha. Republican House rep and one of the Cap and Trade 8 idiots Mark Kirk
    and another czar has an acorn in her pocket..her names to long to remember………..

  150. asia September 29, 2009 at 2:12 pm #

    This interface gets buggy-er as time goes on…I hit ‘submit’ yday …I thought once and message appeared twice

  151. dale September 29, 2009 at 2:16 pm #

    You’re going to have to show me some pretty serious proof about that 750M cars vs. 15 container ships thing. Sounds pretty wild to me.

  152. asoka September 29, 2009 at 2:26 pm #

    William Safire had class. He never called anyone a slimy eel.

  153. dale September 29, 2009 at 2:36 pm #

    FYI — I have heard the translation of Akmo’s remarks regarding “wiping Isreal off the map” have been questioned by highly regarded sources. I don’t speak Farsi, so I don’t know for sure, but I suspect you don’t either, so consider once again, that what you are being told may be an attempt to manipulate you.
    Regarding Iran having the bomb, I wouldn’t doubt that is their intention. If you had been around a little longer you would know the long list of “things we can’t let happen” included on the short list:
    1. Can’t let China get the bomb! Their crazy!
    2. If we let Indochina fall, pretty soon the commies will be on Hawaii!
    3. If we let Vietnam fall pretty soon the commies will be on Hawaii!
    4. If we let Chile go socialist, pretty soon they will turn into commies and will be in Texas!
    5. We can’t let Iran control their own oil, so we better depose that democratically elected leader.
    The list goes on and on…..
    I have read, (once again it’s all subject to that “I have read” problem) that Israel couldn’t “take out” whatever capability Iran has by themselves, Don’t have the warplanes or refueling aircraft. If that’s true then we get sucked in, fuck that! I’m pretty sure Iran is not stupid enough to attack us or Israel, if they know the payback is from us. End of story. Pay your money and take your choice. It’s about time Israel started making serious efforts to correct the Palestinian situation instead of kicking the can down the road. Time is not on their side.
    BTW —- I remember Reagan being asked if he thought Iran would attack one of our carriers if we moved them into the Gulf. His reply “Their not that stupid”

  154. Michael Janzen September 29, 2009 at 2:44 pm #

    “Perhaps this is childish. I’d rather tell a story or paint a picture.”
    I’m with you Jim, in fact since we really have very little effect on the train crash itself it makes more sense to focus on how we’re going to jump off the train and who and what we’re going to take with us before it crashes.
    I’m finally reading World Made By Hand and it’s clear that story telling is really one of the best, if not oldest, ways of teaching.

  155. dale September 29, 2009 at 2:45 pm #

    Don’t you have to wonder how “war-like”, tough guy ZZZZ would be if they reinstituted the draft and decided to toss his ass out of an airplane over Iran? BaHaHa!
    It’s always the stay at home fucks who think invading somewhere for what some politician said is a good idea. If we got invaded everytime a US pol said something stupid, the US would be a heap of irridescent slag by now.

  156. dale September 29, 2009 at 2:50 pm #

    “PALIN/JINDAL 2012 (please, oh please let it be!)”
    HaHaHa! to paraphrase Reagan; “I don’t think even the Republicans are THAT stupid!

  157. asoka September 29, 2009 at 4:13 pm #

    dale said: “I’m pretty sure Iran is not stupid enough to attack us or Israel, if they know the payback is from us.”
    Iran is not an aggressor nation. Iran has not attacked anyone for over one hundred years.
    The USA has attacked Iran’s neighbors and established military bases all around Iran.
    If Iran attacked Canada and Mexico and established military bases there, and then insisted we not develop nuclear power, and ran covert ops out of Canada and Mexico over our borders, and sent fleets of war ships to patrol near our shores and otherwise threatened us…
    How would the USA like it if Iran did to the USA what the USA is doing to Iran?

  158. messianicdruid September 29, 2009 at 5:37 pm #

    Inflation in essentials, deflation in non-essentials, until the money quits working. Then we barter.

  159. abbeysbooks September 29, 2009 at 5:41 pm #

    Reply to zzzz

    “…all those brokers calling their clients and suckering them back in to make their money back and more.”

    This is what I said that zzzz is replying to. Taken out of context of course. Then right afterwards with no personal comment comes:

    Hey moron, try trading on-line. No brokers involved. You trade (or notr) based on your own research. Its called being an adult.

    First I get called a moron for using a broker. (I am not the one using a broker as I am making a hypothetical statement that the reason the market is going up is that brokers are calling clients and getting them back in the game with sales talk.) This is true BTW.
    What this indicates is that either zzzz cannot read or zzzz cannot understand what she/he reads. Or maybe doesn’t give a fuck and just wants to be rammy and discharge aggression. You know like Bush always wanted to do. This is why whatever Obama’s faults, he is Mr. Cool.
    zzzz needs to get laid more since discharging aggression is zzzz’s primary purpose for being here or anywhere else online.
    But I think zzzz can serve as an excellent example of the kind of people we avoid whenever possible off line. These are the kinds of people who cannot converse, hold an idea more than a few seconds in their mind, or consider alternatives. They just like to disrupt. In high school we all knew the type that zzzz so beautifully portrays. In college there were fewer and in graduate school fewer still. zzzz has the personality trait that makes it difficult to impossible to succeed in life. Not many friends, and the few a zzzz might have are not the type that will help one in networking. It is impossible to present a logical argument to a zzzz type, impossible to get a zzzz type to even hear or listen to your considerations but showing a definite affinity for the sit com zapper type of comeback. When a zzzz does a good zap it can be funny and it stops all further talking on that subject.
    So I am not so much as replying to this zzzz here as communicating to the rest of you who might be interested in what I have to say about this zzzz that intrudes here. But we must learn to deal with these types;however, they are almost always eventually very boring (this one is) and are unproductive individuals as they stop being funny quickly when it becomes obvious that they are not too bright. A zzzz will fool you a little while with some special individualized knowledge or specialty that they haul out and wave at you. But very low IQ people often have what is known as specific superiority in a given narrow area. For low IQ people it must be identified and nourished and then that person can function well within that boundary. Poor zzzz never got that much needed attention and is still begging for it. You know like the little child who keeps misbehaving because then and only then does the parent pay attention and most often in a negative way. As Skinner has shown us so well, negative reinforcement is better than none at all.
    And I am deliberately insulting this zzzz by no longer regarding her/him as an individual but only as a type. Let’s try to develop our skills in dealing with this typical type since it is right here for our study.

  160. abbeysbooks September 29, 2009 at 5:55 pm #

    Hitlet did nothing. the Treaty of Versailles gave away all our leverage. The British and French imposed stiff sanctions on Germany who had asked for an armistice during War I. an armistice is not a surrender. It is a request to stop fighting and call it quits. And then Germany got fucked at Versailles. Their money was worthless, they were starving, the country was the way we are going to be. And so Hitler filled the void. Then the UK and France enabled him, to the unbelievable disbelief of his military and to Hitler’s vast surprise. I am talking about his little invasions that became big invasions. And then when he went into Poland the UK was backed into a corner to honor its word in their treaty with Poland. England fought alone until we came in. Then Hitler made a boo boo and went after the Soviet Union. He almost got them but winter set in and German troops went the way of Napolean. Without our military aid first (lend lease called) and then our manpower they would have been defeated. Asia would have been lost and we would have been alone for the kill. Germany had developed the U2 unmanned rocket at the end which would have doomed us. He would have come for us. Jaego should be reading this synopsis too.

  161. abbeysbooks September 29, 2009 at 6:03 pm #

    Straight out of Toynbee’s mouth in his details of disintegration. Barbarians within and without.

    The trial underlined the very real threat that US gangs pose inside the United States as foot soldiers, informants, tax collectors and assassins for Mexican organized crime.

  162. abbeysbooks September 29, 2009 at 6:09 pm #

    Very very nice analysis.

  163. abbeysbooks September 29, 2009 at 6:17 pm #

    I agree that it was a performance piece for the rest of us. Just like Nagasaki and Hiroshima wwere performance pieces for the Soviets.
    Mailer talks about this in Armies of the Night when he was at the Pentagon march. Utterly horrible and the media never covered what they did to people.
    As they peacefully sat in a circle around the Pentagon the first row was savagely beaten bloody. Then the next row moved up to take the truncheons. And the next and the next. Brains bloodied and bodies broken and no one the wiser. But Mailer saw and witnessed.

  164. abbeysbooks September 29, 2009 at 6:25 pm #

    The answer is a deflationary inflation. Utilities will be high and food and energy and other things will be pennies on the dollar.
    Doug Casey predicted in the late 1970’s in his Crisis Investing that this would be how it would end up. His timing was way way off and lost of people buying his best seller were stiffed by buying gold. He thinks well though.

  165. abbeysbooks September 29, 2009 at 6:29 pm #

    And as Hobbes has said, Life was short and brutish. and will be so again I think.

  166. abbeysbooks September 29, 2009 at 6:44 pm #

    Oh and I forgot that the Soviets held Hitler off until we got ready and came in. They lost more men than any other country in War II. They were on the ropes, starving and bombed out but they held the line and took some heat off England. Actually they took a lot off.
    At Yalta, FDR was clearly sick, Churchill realized that England was no more a great world wide empire, and that the future belonged to the Americans and the Soviets with England back on her island.
    There was no way FDR could refuse the Soviets their booty of Eastern Europe. We were not going to fight them over it.
    And to this day FDR is accused of giving the store away.

  167. ozone September 29, 2009 at 7:10 pm #

    Hola, Vaunted Prognosticators!
    Yep, I feel a vision comin’ on my own self. (Feel it “in muh gut”, don’cha know. Just like the ol’ Dubya, a man(?) whose gut always felt the coming of total disaster disguised as a satisfying dump.)
    And so, this bit of deliciousness…
    “Economics is a branch of the social sciences, surely history’s greatest oxymoron. They filled the vacuum left by the collapse of religion and are just as invalid.”
    Haw! Niiiiiice! Practice up on your incantations, self-flagellations, prayers for the death of “them others” that are crampin’ your [white] all-american style, fingering those chicken guts, ummmm, …hey, dance through any ritual that might bring you some peace; but it’s a little pressure on the trigger that brings the final release.
    The rest of that fine (and short; specifically designed for ‘murkins) article be hyar:
    Have fun castin’ them bones! ;o)
    Gawd, I love the smell of self-delusion in the morning; it smells like…….. the bullshit that it IS!

  168. asia September 29, 2009 at 7:32 pm #

    So flash and Xhtml dont point to a 20$ an hr job? or do you want 50 an hr?

  169. asia September 29, 2009 at 7:33 pm #


  170. asia September 29, 2009 at 7:40 pm #

    lawless and bloodthirsty…multi national drug cartels
    but daleo calls me and mine ‘ racists’

  171. seb September 29, 2009 at 11:11 pm #

    But very low IQ people often have what is known as specific superiority in a given narrow area. For low IQ people it must be identified and nourished and then that person can function well within that boundary.
    That’s a shame. En garde, Abbey.
    Buttonwood Agreement. This was the origin of the New York Stock
    ::::no, it does look good. Notably, i had EPONYM for a place named after a person, and here the METONYM WALL STREET: a name of the financial system of a street, like “fishing for pearls”, as opposed to a METAPHOR, and I was looking for a way to answer JHK’s metaphors without something so simplistic as to expect SIMILE would be different. Metonyms aren’t different either, but we are getting into the difference I sought, perhaps to the extreme example of looking for a meaning for DIFFERENTS, because that is one thing I do like: why do I come up with these words? what is missing in the language that gaps of incorrectness should appear?
    from DIFFERENTS, we can go to SAMES, thence to NAMES, where we’re safe.
    the psi area where you look for psychic effects.
    Of course, that is while dreaming. Looking for them sober is tortuous retracing of twisting logic.
    SAMES invites study by alternating vowels and consonants, giving a family of words. even part of words can imply these families. taking MUND as a given, I get MIND, MAND, MEND, etc. But Mund is not an everyday given.
    The things no one studies become orphan and easily the source of derision. Once abandoned, experts must not claim to be expert in them. They must claim to know nothing of them, as if they do not exist, or they’re not considered experts by people like you. The expert in things which do not exist is the hidebound. Abbey, don’t ask what existence is. I warn you, intangible things exist, and if you believe events and causation together are a great place to start, that just proves you did not read this weeks post by JHK. Did he not say, EMERGENT? what the hell do you suppose that means? A pup tent? well, right you are! This in contrast to the low-IQ individual who may become expert at one thing. No one today is an expert in anything 22nd Century. Paradoxically, it is only today’s CHILD with any hope of leading in such prototype 22nd Century industries as stripping the flesh from masses of humans forced into whirling, bladed killing machines and forcing other humans to eat it.
    Isn’t “Abbey” pretty close to ABATTOIR? Well, you are an English major, so, how close? How many rearrangements are required to change one into the other? Do proper names go first? WILL YOU put metonyms, eponyms, proper names, synonyms, homonyms, antonyms, in order and complete this list. My rule is that if you have to go very far in the alphabet you get a higher score, and it’s like golf. What is it called if it wraps around? How about if AA follows Z? Abbey and Abbey have no hope of revealing who the evil twin is. A-B-B in you (do you mind, or should I say, “in yours”?), goes to A-B-A, a mere one. Good score so far. I am just doing this for you. Run the water yourself yo.
    you are not an English major now, so, INTO THE SHAMBLES!

  172. Qshtik September 29, 2009 at 11:35 pm #

    The older you get the fewer the people who seem to be sane. In fact, it gets to a point where you begin to feel you’re the only sane person left. One only needs to consider the crowd here at CFN. More specifically, take Abbeysbooks.
    Abbey and I had been exchanging caustic insults in recent weeks when an undeclared truce settled in. During this period of sweetness and light we chatted about our pets and about favorite authors and books and I was beginning to think maybe she doesn’t need professional help after all. Then Monday rolled around and the new Kunstler essay appeared. It was as if some default to paranoia button had been pressed.
    I refer you to the fifth and sixth comments in panel 7 where Abbey brings up the name Martin Armstrong. She provides a link to the extensive writings of this gentleman and a thorough history as to why he has been in jail for ten years and counting. If you go there be prepared for a long hard slog.
    I know something about this person because my older brother in Florida sent me a long Armstrong dissertation on cycles a year or so ago. The document appeared to have been typed on a 60 year old Royal typewriter. There were ink splotched letters, lines of type off kilter and numerous complex charts drawn with pencil and ruler. None of that, I concede, means that the content is not brilliant but it is not what you’d expect from someone who others, if not himself, are passingerd off as a genius.
    The document ran about 80 to 90 pages as I recall. I read a third to a half thoroughly and scanned over the rest. The image that came to mind was of the lead character (John Forbes Nash) played by Russell Crowe in the movie A Beautiful Mind. You may recall the scene where Nash’s wife and an agent enter a room where Nash has been working secretly for years to decode Soviet messages. There is an incredible complexity of magazine and newspaper articles stuck to every square inch of the walls with connecting lines drawn every which way. Nash’s belief that he has been working for the CIA all these years is a complete paranoid schezophrenic delusion.
    And so we come to the following excerpts from Abbey’s comments:
    Panel 7, comm 5: Martin Armstrong of Princeton Economics developed a model that was accurate. But he has been in prison for 10 years now for refusing to divulge his model and other things the govt wants.
    Panel 7, comm 9: They are terrified of him.
    SEB had the following to say (in Panel 8, comm 4) about Abbey’s mention of Martin Armstrong:
    I think Abbysbooks is highly intelligent, and she’s been putting down things to read you don’t usually see. The higher the intelligence the closer to madness, though, and I’d say she is definitely linking to a rather paranoid writer today.
    Or how about this doozy from Abbey on a different subject:
    Panel 8, comm 10: But if you buy gold bars, they will probably confiscate it. Also they will then watch you in case you have more. People have been murdered and tortured for a lot less. I would stockpile necessities: tools, preserved food, medicine, how to books, PDR’s, surgery techniques, as all these things will be needed and knowledge will keep you alive because you will be needed.
    Abbey, please seek professional help.

  173. seb September 30, 2009 at 12:06 am #

    EMERGENCE off Wiki
    The concept has been in use since at least the time of Aristotle.[1] John Stuart Mill[2] and Julian Huxley[3] are just some of the historic luminaries who have written on the concept.
    The term “emergent” was coined by the pioneer psychologist G. H. Lewes, who wrote:
    “Every resultant is either a sum or a difference of the co-operant forces; their sum, when their directions are the same — their difference, when their directions are contrary. Further, every resultant is clearly traceable in its components, because these are homogeneous and commensurable. It is otherwise with emergents, when, instead of adding measurable motion to measurable motion, or things of one …
    okay, see where I put a word, “differents”, at all? Now, you thought the word I was looking for, or anyone in your life was looking for, you expert textpert, mussa bin “emergence”. Nah. Send my credentials to the house of detention.
    Oh, here’s where JHK uses the word; he put it underneath something I needed from him as of last week, which is how to cut the Achilles tendon of some of these PhDs in science who act like entropy doesn’t apply to them.
    I tell you, by the time people in here started saying that you could not predict the future since if was too fucking “complex”, I started thinking “Wow”, and this after so neatly excising Global Warming. Others were busy cutting and pasting how criminal gangs tax. Thank you.
    Remember the nose on your face? Well, who do you suppose invented those spectacles resting on the bridge of the nose. An optician? No; as a matter of fact they sat there about a couple hundred years before anybody noticed them. We thought light went out of our eyes, not into them.
    assumptions about continued “growth” are concerned. In that brief exchange on Peak Oil, Dent seemed to take the position that the “winter” part of any historical financial cycle always produced “new technology” that invariably saves the day, putting this seemingly very smart man in the camp of so many techno-cornucopian triumphalists all wishing for the same outcome: that some mythical “they” will “come up with” a set of rescue remedies to keep all the cars circulating on …(end quote 1)
    Unfortunately for my point you didn’t read this week’s blog, the word “emergent” is not in it; you didn’t read last week’s blog:
    quote 2
    The suburban project was not a conspiracy by the likes of Robert Moses, Walt Disney, Frank Lloyd Wright, and President Eisenhower to produce a living arrangement with no future. It was the emergent, self-organizing result of special circumstances in a particular time and place: post World War Two America, with an immense supply of cheap oil, cheap land, and the industrial capacity to churn out all the necessary components for a car-dependent development pattern. Suburbia was spawned…(unquote 2)
    Quote #1 is just what I’m interested in. I know I can’t get you on not comprehending the words of the post itself, and if I require a high-IQ maven to keep foremost each word I outdo my own abilities. It is my belief that chemistry majors can find chem too difficult and change to English, but English majors who find English too difficult never change their major to chemistry, and why is that? How do chemists ever write books?
    Well, the JHK blog post with “emergent” in it was “Original Sin”, but the last good discussion in the forum this has become was under “Reality Receding”. JHK does not have good posts and bad posts. Even if not appreciated, they’re all getting better.
    In sum total, ZZZZZZ, I mean, he can defend himself; he’s got D ZZZZZZ (disease).

  174. Qshtik September 30, 2009 at 12:09 am #

    Lest you accuse me of picking on poor old Abbey, how about these signs of paranoia from Jaego:
    Panel 6, comm 1: Put your money in metals. They have been kept down artificially, but cannot be forever.
    Panel 6, comm 4: The whole Global Warming thing is another Elitist Scam.
    and my favorite …………….
    Panel 11, comm 6: The other thing they don’t want you to know …… the real reason for WW2 – the Banker Middlemen Parasites were being cut out.
    Jaego, please at least chat with a psycologist. I’m sure you can find one not named Cohen or Greenberg.

  175. abbeysbooks September 30, 2009 at 12:22 am #

    Here’s one link. Just put “container ships” + pollution in the google search and more will come up. Hard to believe. 1 ship =50 million cars.

  176. abbeysbooks September 30, 2009 at 12:41 am #

    Sorry you don’t like Armstrong. Yes when I first heard of him in the early 80’s he did send materials ina cheap format. But they were accurate. I was into real estate then but every day I followed his telephone recs for gold positions and they were right on. This was in the middle 80’s. Thee was a long downturn that was very profitable.
    Then I lost touch for other reasons until last year. Miles Franklin has been reccing gold since 2000 and still is. Gold at 2xx.00 (2000) and now almost 1000. I wouldn’t say that is shabby, would you?
    Armstrong is good for currency trading and options. I stay away from futures having once lost on them. They really move fast.

  177. abbeysbooks September 30, 2009 at 12:46 am #

    I don’t think people should be suggesting therapeutic interventions to other people around here. It is a common way of making a put down on internet sites. Just a nicer way of calling someone a fucktard the way zzzz does. What’s the difference? You insult someone’s sanity and zzzz name calls at a more primitive level, like children. Sticks and stones ………
    Now if you really want to go at it in this fashion, well, bring it on!

  178. seb September 30, 2009 at 12:48 am #

    Hey, Qshtick!
    While not ordinarily considered sane, I find it heartening to be big now and rather able to attack what I see is a great hypocrisy with impunity the way you can on the Internet.
    The Internet or mere computers have such great promise that venting anger seems some kind of misallocation of resources. Then we find that a perfect machine itself leads to spending too much time with it, an “unintended consequence”.
    Lastly, one writer says I must be posting from prison. People do not mean what they are about if they alternate willy-nilly between health care and punishment at their own whim. It is not about really looking to destroy human beings without conscience, not in a country with this many prisoners, fighting this many wars.
    You are correct about Martin Armstrong, Q, and I did read it, God help me (I must have a lot of time on my hands), and I have, I swear, bought into the “9/11 Truth” doctrine so readily before that, like religious conversion, there is some kind of human failing exploited so as to create the ergonomic carpal tunnel syndrome equivalent, called, “Internet Conspiracy”. I guess we are in danger of becoming like our computers. We get mental viruses.
    The thing as I skimmed over the logic on those held without charges is the subtle justice of lawyers, professors and such for once caught by the ears and dragged off by the unfeeling machine.
    As a mental patient, I have often wondered how come just a simple “fuck you” will get you locked up. That’s what the system does. It doesn’t work right. But, Abbeysbooks you can legitimately say, “fuck you and what do you think of that?”. It is one of those immunities like snake handlers develop. “I think it’s a conjuctive pluperfect diddlefob up on a reacharound ding-sqwalk flummox-inducing vernacular from approximately 1650, but nobody knows for sure.”
    But I know moments are dead, fields are dead, yet I still research them. What is a zero in nature? Which is real, and which an illusion?

  179. Tomcat16 September 30, 2009 at 1:32 am #

    It’s a bit more complicated than that. At this point I’d take the $20/hr job if one were offered, but that doesn’t seem to be happening.

  180. Jaego Scorzne September 30, 2009 at 1:43 am #

    Yes, yes Abbey and then we gave Stalin the whole of Eastern Europe even Poland. Wait a minute, wasn’t saving Poland from “totalitarianism” the reason the whole thing started to begin with?
    Also Hitler let the British Army get away at Dunkirk. Even at that late date he still wanted peace with the West. The True West (read Tolkien and Lewis) not Yankee Trash Traders and their Jewish Banker Buddies. Hitler had tremendous admiration for the British Empire and wanted an alliance to save Western Civilization. We would have been perfectly safe if we had followed the advice of great Americans like Charles Lindbergh. Instead we listened to the vicious cripple who promised peace even as he was planning war. A complete tool of the Judeo-Masons as was Churchill.
    Your Leftist Conspiracy Theory only takes you half way and leaves you nowhere. But to accept the Truth, you would have to give up your beloved Revolution and admit what absolute scum people Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Mao, and Stalin were.
    Who do you think financed all of that? The very people you hate. Revolutions take alot of money you know. The idea of starving scholars in garrets and peasant with pitchforks is all very romantic-but such people get nowhere. Revolutions take big money-they were financed by the big Western Bankers and Capitalists-the people you hate. You just keep going in circles, never seeing life as a whole. Only Fascism, the third way can lead beyond the current impasse of false choice. Capitalism vs Communism: wrong. Communism is a creation of the Capitalists to destroy traditional Western Society be it aristocratic as in Russia or Free Enterprise/Republican here in the United States.

  181. Jaego Scorzne September 30, 2009 at 2:09 am #

    Right. As Hitler told England’s ambassador, if you fight another war you will lose your empire. The Brits were told to focus on the European Theatre-they lost their Pacific Fleet to the Japanese because they were following American Orders and therefore didn’t support it.
    So the future belonged to the Soviet Union and America. So if Communism was the Enemy, why did we build up their industry after the war? Ever see the picture of Rockefeller and Khushchev embracing like brothers or lovers? And vacationing together on the Black Sea? No, your orthodox view of History just doesn’t ultimately make sense. And this failure to understand engulfed our whole Nation. We fought wars in Korea and Vietnam while giving aid to the Soviet Union-who supplied Korea and Vietnam. Complete madness and waste of human lives and material resources. But very good for the War Industry.
    Not all Americans were so sanguine about the betrayal of Eastern Europe. One journalist described the immense pleasure Stalin got from the look on Prince Peter’s (of Poland) face when he realized that FDR had sold him out to the monster. Patton wanted to rout them out of Europe but they wouldn’t give him the gas for the tanks. He died mysteriously soon after.

  182. asoka September 30, 2009 at 2:54 am #

    Abbeysbooks, please ignore Qishtik. He has a need to think he understands where people are coming from…. which is pretty much impossible on this anonymous internet machine.
    We are so much more complex than what can divined by random comments to a blog. And some of us are slimy eels who have a different truth everyday… that must be really frustrating to someone who feels a need to pigeonhole people.
    “Do I contradict myself? Very well then, I contradict myself. I am large. I contain multitudes.” — Walt Whitman
    “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.” –Emerson
    My positions and my values and my beliefs are capable of change as I receive new information or have new experiences.
    I want no “character” or “values” or “dogma” or “ideology” that inhibit the freedom to react as the present moment requires. Why would I give up that freedom?

  183. Strangewalk September 30, 2009 at 6:25 am #

    I’m not sure I buy into Peak Oil either. It wasn’t too long ago that the tar sands in Canada were considered economically unviable for oil conversion, but now that’s where most imported US supply comes from. And the US is the Saudi Arabia of oil shale (similar to tar sands), coal, wind, natural gas, and could construct 500 nuke plants in fairly short order if the stops were pulled. In addition, if cars were required to average 60 mpg (many soon will), we wouldn’t need to import any oil, not even from Canada. Plus, the largest oil reserves in the world remain untapped and some of the largest are in the US, (though it’s uneasy to get at with present drilling tech). There’s a profit game being played by the same kind of evil, good-for-nothing people who drowned, saturated, poisoned and ruined us with pornography, illegal drugs, Hollywood entertainment, financial scheming and toxic processed foods. These are the people who are in control, may they hurry to Hell, from where their God now directs them.

  184. dale September 30, 2009 at 11:07 am #

    There is a fine line there somewhere between being flexible and “blowing in the wind”. I’m not speculating on where you stand in that equation, but I do think being proud of having no “character” or “values” is no better than being proud of having them.
    I have some values that are not subject to change, only to my ability to follow them consistently. “Do no harm” would by one. Under what circumstances would “new information” change my view of that?
    The point of meaningful values is that they are timeless and not affected by the haphazard effects of daily life.

  185. dale September 30, 2009 at 11:14 am #

    “I want no “character” or “values” or “dogma” or “ideology” that inhibit the freedom to react as the present moment requires. Why would I give up that freedom?”
    Perhaps because “in the present moment” you may not know what is “required”. There is a certain excess of ego in thinking that you will, No?
    This sort of relativism can be a slippery slope. Why should I give up the freedom to decide if you should be allowed to continue to live?

  186. Jaego Scorzne September 30, 2009 at 11:39 am #

    Hold on podner, I’m the one who is supposed to be in prison. You have to stop identifying with me. Just because we are too peas in a pod doesn’t make us the same pea. Don’t get me wrong-I’m sure Peak Oil Lori would like to lock you up too. As an anthropologist, I’d rather be in a Mental Institution than Prison. It’s safer in general. But there is a large overlap…Anyway, I hope you are safe at home like me.
    Beware of women who run with wolves and consider themselves prisoners of men’s dreams. As their percieved captor, they feel morally justified in tearing you to pieces and devouring you. Indeed, it is their duty to do so.

  187. mikebeauchamp_15@msn.com September 30, 2009 at 12:16 pm #

    ” In A World Made By Hand”, hopefully hemp will be given full due as possibly the single most usefull crop in our botanical arsenal for survial.From the fiber we get paper, clothing, composite lumber much stronger than wood comosites ( hemp fibers are 2-3 feet long while wood fibers max out at less than an inch), from the seeds we get high level protein and oil. The oil can be used as biodisal fuel or in making plastics that are as strong as steel(see Henry Ford hemp bodied car 1942). Hemp aalso grows in marginal soil and improves the soil. So, if Jim is correct, and he likely is, hemp will certainly be of value.

  188. zzzzzz September 30, 2009 at 12:20 pm #

    “Now, don’t tell me that 25-50 youthful anarchist types wearing Sketchers or Air Jordans had it all over the military warranting this takeover of Pittsburgh…”
    Its rather simple. Pittsburgh did not wish to be Seattle Two. They prevented that by having enough people in place to prevent that form happening. It is called planning. I’d say it was rather succesful.

  189. Jaego Scorzne September 30, 2009 at 12:29 pm #

    A foolish consistency isn’t the same as no consistency at all-is it? As Winston Smith said in 1984, Freedom is be able to believe that 2=2=4. In other words, there is no Freedom apart from the Truth or the Law. Apart from these two which are One, one founds not Freedom but just the prison of mere subjectivity. Needless to say, by Law, I mean the Natural Law which as Psalmist says, He has imprinted on our Hearts. Any man made Law should conform to this-Communism doesn’t and hence is not valid. The Constitution does, and therefore is.
    You remind me of my sister. She feels to free to break her word, change her mind without telling anyone, deny she ever said what she said, and act amazed when people get furious at her. Her whim is law and she will defend it vigorously. Never apologize, never explain are emblazoned on her heart-obscuring the original instrucitons. Needless to say, any “consensual reality” (real relationship) with her is impossible. Not that she would ever feel the need to justify any of this in writing as you do. In that, she’s even more free than you are.

  190. zzzzzz September 30, 2009 at 12:48 pm #

    “And I am deliberately insulting this zzzz by no longer regarding her/him as an individual but only as a type.”
    Well Dr. Shakey, in order you to claim you are insulting me, I would first have to be insulted and I am not. You make up a little dime-store psychological profile on an internet poster and that is somehow credible? Ah, I guess in the esteemed Dr.’s view.
    You then say:
    “Let’s try to develop our skills in dealing with this typical type…”
    “Let’s” as in let us? Well for fucks sake thats a little bossy. I’m guessing each could find a way of dealing with “this type” as they see fit. As for you? If it gets you so bunched up that you feel compelled to post a reply this lengthy, I suggest you take the mature path and scroll right on by. I mean it works for those who are relatively balanced. (You really are a MORON, aren’t you?)

  191. zzzzzz September 30, 2009 at 1:09 pm #

    “There is no way real-estate values, (real values), will recover in our lifetimes.”
    Right on. And here is something that has not been much addressed. The assessed valuations of real estate are what the real estate tax is based upon. What happens to local government revenues when homes are assayed at their new lower evaluations?

  192. Qshtik September 30, 2009 at 1:10 pm #

    “Abbey, please seek professional help.”
    The above admonition from me serves two purposes: it is shorthand for me saying, in all honesty, “you have a mental problem.” Secondly, it is the nice way of taking a cheap shot* that you say it is (i.e. without saying fucktard).
    The thing is this … in preparation for my post dealing with Martin Armstrong, I first went back through all your comments of (merely) the last two days (prior weeks are loaded with more examples). I copied excerpts that sounded like paranoia. They are easy to spot. They usually contain the word “they” as in They are terrified of him or they will probably confiscate it or they will then watch you in case you have more.
    I thought of including those excerpts in my post but decided it was overkill since I had already made my point. You, Abbey, see dark forces everywhere. I take that back … you perceive that dark forces are everywhere pulling the strings. Recall “Grand conspiracy crackpot.” When I hung out in bars shooting pool there was always a guy sitting next to me (like you) watching sports on TV. In boxing, every fight was fixed. In football, the field goal attempt with one second on the clock that bounced off the goal post was arranged by gamblers with big money on the game. Nothing is legit; nothing is real; THEY control everything. They, they, they.
    * What makes it a cheap shot is that I am a great skeptic of the value of mental health professionals having any real or lasting positive effect. I believe my own head is unshrinkable. But since other people do believe in the value of intervention (and I suspect you are such a person) I say, “Abbey, please seek professional help.”

  193. zzzzzz September 30, 2009 at 1:12 pm #

    “Don’t you have to wonder how “war-like”, tough guy ZZZZ would be if they reinstituted the draft…”
    Oh shut up you little nancy-boy or I’ll come over to your house and kick your fucking ass. (Sorry, I felt it necessary to give you a “war-like” response. Not certain what I said that is war-like but what the hey.)

  194. zzzzzz September 30, 2009 at 1:14 pm #

    “The above admonition from me serves two purposes: it is shorthand for me saying, in all honesty, “you have a mental problem.” Secondly, it is the nice way of taking a cheap shot* that you say it is (i.e. without saying fucktard).”
    Hey FUCKTARD is much, much, more concise. Try FUCKTARD, you fucking FUCKTARD.

  195. Qshtik September 30, 2009 at 1:26 pm #

    “You remind me of my sister.”
    I am flabbergasted! A factoid has emerged about Jaego. He has a sister and is none to pleased with her. Is it possible Q was on to something when he wrote that backstory a month or two ago?
    Is her name Sonja and I am Nostradamus?

  196. asoka September 30, 2009 at 1:35 pm #

    dale said: “Perhaps because “in the present moment” you may not know what is “required”. There is a certain excess of ego in thinking that you will, No?”
    Not from my perspective. The present moment and what it brings you is all you have. I respect your point of view and/or your need to believe in some kind of enduring/guiding values… just don’t foist them on me.
    dale said: “This sort of relativism can be a slippery slope. Why should I give up the freedom to decide if you should be allowed to continue to live?
    You shouldn’t. I am not in any way limiting your freedom to end my life.
    Have you ever lived in a country where death squads operate pretty much with impunity? I have.
    Whether or not any of us continue to live is pretty much out of our hands. No one “plans” to die in a car accident or from an illness, but it happens every day. As Ruben Blades salsa song says: “La vida te da sorpresas” (life gives you surprises).
    With luck you survive. Life offers no guarantees of how long or what your quality of life will be. And anyway, the moment of death is just another moment to live as fully as possible without fear.

  197. Qshtik September 30, 2009 at 1:43 pm #

    “The assessed valuations of real estate are what the real estate tax is based upon.”
    The above is a half truth … at least in my town it is.
    The assessed valuation gets multiplied by the rate to arrive at tax owed. If the town doesn’t get around to reassessing valuations for a few years but still needs “mo money” they up the rate. Eventually valuations get way out of whack and a hew and cry goes up from the populace.

  198. AreaMan September 30, 2009 at 2:09 pm #

    The best observation about making predictions that I have seen, comes from technology and social forecaster Paul Saffo ( http://www.saffo.com )
    Saffo’s tag line is …
    “Never mistake a clear view for a short distance.”
    To me this means that while the logical outcome of present trajectories may be obvious, it does not mean that impact is imminent.
    “Party on!” said the grasshopper to the ants.

  199. Qshtik September 30, 2009 at 2:16 pm #

    “Hey FUCKTARD is much, much, more concise.”
    Concise, yes … but Abbey prefers her insults more nuanced.

  200. Qshtik September 30, 2009 at 2:24 pm #

    “Never mistake a clear view for a short distance.”
    I’ve made this same observation several times but I’m much more wordy in doing it.

  201. dale September 30, 2009 at 2:25 pm #

    dale said: “This sort of relativism can be a slippery slope. Why should I give up the freedom to decide if you should be allowed to continue to live?
    You shouldn’t. I am not in any way limiting your freedom to end my life.
    Even by the standards of this blog, that totally pegs the stupidometer.

  202. dale September 30, 2009 at 2:32 pm #

    Of course, the previous was intended for Asoka.
    ZZZZ broke the stoogometer long ago. You have to actually say something you didn’t repeat from a RW website or shoutfest, to even by eligible for “stupid”.
    Seriously Asoka, that may be the dumbest and most nearsighted think I’ve ever heard anyone utter. Do you really say that kind of garbage to people’s faces? If you do I can just imagine the looks you receive in return.
    Or….is that whole crazy notion your idea of a joke.

  203. Tomcat16 September 30, 2009 at 2:32 pm #

    Good interesting website. Thanks for posting.
    “Party on, Garth!”

  204. dale September 30, 2009 at 2:39 pm #

    “You remind me of my sister.”
    OK….so now we know his whole family is probably as fucked up as he is. One wonders, had they stayed in Bosnia or Serbia, what the Nazi’s would have done(had they won, as this nitwit no doubt wishes)with this collection of fuckups, Oh!…..don’t tell me, I already know. Turn on the gas and lock the doors.

  205. asoka September 30, 2009 at 2:48 pm #

    dale said: “Do you really say that kind of garbage to people’s faces? If you do I can just imagine the looks you receive in return.”
    Read some history of people who practiced “do no harm” and see how people like Socrates (poisoned), Jesus (crucified), and MLK (assassinated) who embrace nonviolence are treated.
    Do you really believe in “do no harm” as your guiding value? What kind of looks do you get if you say that to peoples’ faces?
    My saying the present moment is all we have is no more strange than what you are preaching.

  206. zzzzzz September 30, 2009 at 2:50 pm #

    “He has a sister and is none to pleased with her.”
    Grammer mammer,
    Should be: none too pleased.

  207. zzzzzz September 30, 2009 at 2:51 pm #

    “Concise, yes … but Abbey prefers her insults more nuanced.”
    Fuck Blabby, I’m asking you to be more concise…idiot.

  208. zzzzzz September 30, 2009 at 2:52 pm #

    I think you responded to the wrong poster. What a maroon.

  209. asia September 30, 2009 at 2:55 pm #

    Meanwhile back at peak oil…………….
    I was listening to coast2coast and someone was claiming CATTAILS will keep us in happy motoring………..he and daryl H….
    Is it true? do plants procduce enough oil?
    From Swamp to Gas Pump – Cattails Take on New Role : Blue Planet …Aug 26, 2009 … Cattails add beauty to the landscape. Photo: Caryn Green …. Actress-activist Daryl Hannah is going to have one of the conversion kits …

  210. zzzzzz September 30, 2009 at 3:00 pm #

    “ZZZZ broke the stoogometer long ago. ”
    Too true. You are the stoog(e)ometer (even if you can’t spell it, which proves my point). I broke your nonsense down eons ago.

  211. asia September 30, 2009 at 3:08 pm #


  212. asia September 30, 2009 at 3:09 pm #

    ‘What a maroon’
    since you ALWAYS spell it this way…do you mean moron ? or maroon????

  213. asia September 30, 2009 at 3:11 pm #

    and you missed
    ‘If you do I can just ‘

  214. zzzzzz September 30, 2009 at 3:14 pm #

    dumber-than-dale sez:
    “I have some values that are not subject to change, only to my ability to follow them consistently. “Do no harm” would by one.”
    Then the moron sez:
    “Seriously Asoka, that may be the dumbest and most nearsighted think I’ve ever heard anyone utter. Do you really say that kind of garbage to people’s faces?”
    My, my. You are calling asoka-the-producers dumb and nearsighted. That is harmful thereby discrediting the “do no harm” credo. Way to stick to dem’ ole’ values you fucking phoney.

  215. Qshtik September 30, 2009 at 3:20 pm #

    Primarily for Abbey’s benefit … More on the subject of Martin Armstrong ….
    Before I posted yesterday about my belief that Martin Armstrong is paranoid and remeniscent of the lead character in A Beautiful Mind, I wanted to check out as quickly and as best I could the other issue, namely, is he the market clairvoyant he’s purported to be?
    I sent the following email to my brother who is more on top of things like this than anyone else I know:
    Armstrong’s name came up in some blog I follow. The writer was gushing about his prescience. What’s your opinion? How have MA’s predictions been working out this year? I seem to remember there were a couple of specific dates, one in Mar or Apr and another in July, I think, when big things were supposed to happen, or start to happen. How has that worked out?
    My brother, always a man of few words unfortunately, responded:
    I have not heard of anyone who said “Armstrong really nailed that one”. Send me a link to the blog you read.

  216. zzzzzz September 30, 2009 at 3:23 pm #

    It was the response Bugs Bunny used when dealing with idiots. Maroon, in this sense is the correct spelling.

  217. Tomcat16 September 30, 2009 at 3:32 pm #

    Meanwhile, back at the banks….
    this little tidbit from Agora Financial’s 5-min. Forecast:
    “It’s official: The FDIC is broke, again.
    Not without a sense of irony, FDIC chair Sheila Bair announced late yesterday that the deposit insurance fund — the fund that backstops all our savings accounts — will be running at a deficit today for the first time since the S&L crisis in 1991. As we forecast in August, the 120 bank failures (and counting) over the last two years have stripped the fund of over $52 billion — its entire war chest. Under current FDIC projections, it’ll be another $48 billion before this is all said and done.”
    95 bank failures this year. Everybody got a good “mattress”?
    As this relates back to JHK’s original post (remember it?) this week: “And the most perplexing part is that there hardly seems any safe place to preserve one’s savings.”

  218. Tomcat16 September 30, 2009 at 3:37 pm #

    Sorry Dale. That was not a response to one of your comments.

  219. Qshtik September 30, 2009 at 3:37 pm #

    “I’m asking you to be more concise…idiot.”
    Do you really think I don’t know that? I’m ignoring you. And besides, what you don’t know is that I’m being paid by the word for these posts. What a fucking numbskull you are!! How’s that … better?

  220. dale September 30, 2009 at 3:40 pm #

    “Seriously Asoka, that may be the dumbest and most nearsighted think I’ve ever heard anyone utter. Do you really say that kind of garbage to people’s faces?”
    My, my. You are calling asoka-the-producers dumb and nearsighted. That is harmful thereby discrediting the “do no harm” credo.
    Your opinion only….and judging by the responses here, I think we know how that is valued.
    IMO….pointing out the logical problems with Asoka’s views is giving him the feedback he needs. It’s only harmful if he is too attached to his ideas.

  221. zzzzzz September 30, 2009 at 3:54 pm #

    “IMO….pointing out the logical problems with Asoka’s views is giving him the feedback he needs. It’s only harmful if he is too attached to his ideas.”
    Riiiight. That being just one of many examples of liberal justification and the ends justifying the means. Of course having the credo, “First do no harm” (which oddly enough is that of physicians) is so morally high grounded, that you can do and say as you wish. (Perfect example of “All hat, no cattle”.)

  222. zzzzzz September 30, 2009 at 3:56 pm #

    “Do you really think I don’t know that? I’m ignoring you.”
    By constantly responding to my posts? ;>}

  223. seb September 30, 2009 at 4:01 pm #

    Hi Jaego,
    Words cannot express how hopeless things get sometimes. I have a terrible time with my wife. Everything is so brittle with the feelings; I end up screaming, but she is just completely incompetent with a computer. She was telling me to type out her resume. I wanted to scan it and store it online for her to access, copy and paste any time. She took off with the resume now, and as she packed it up, she says, “You don’t yell at me, do you understand?” I told her to stop telling me to do it her way and listen. I told her it was because she never listens. and, I know with 5-15 minutes to fill out a form, once it takes five hours, … She lost the information and had to type it in several times. Now it will take five days to get the resume online.
    None of this matters, of course. Or, rather, none of this matters.
    I mean, suppose she sees me typing this, betraying her? And, I logged on for why?
    Well, I was going to spell ‘potnah’, ‘nicca, and ‘perceived’ for you; ‘phony’ for the one post just up before me, ask what it is when called when everything snowballs on you, mention that “emergents” is really “emergent properties”, but that the phrase now has a dominant word, what we call superior/imferior, or rising/falling inflection, and the whole thing hinges on big things emerging.
    By James Howard Kunstler
    on September 28, 2009 9:52 AM
    In my father’s house are many mansions. Surely one of them has a room with no elephants in it…
    See this blog itself. Read, blog, read. It is 9:52 when it goes up. I was born in 1952.
    The “elephant” is the emerging properties. Notably, how a “cornpone Hitler” can arise. IOW, what were once homespun family church values could turn nasty. Predators are only animals. Men are fascists. that’s why Kunstler uses “inflationistas”. It’s fascistas.
    Ayn Rand, whom I glanced at, is perfect for the Nietzche of the new Hitler. Pronounce that with “Ain’t” for the first name, and let it be on the second.
    I like secondaries. Secondaries remind me of a large incendiary with ammunition cooking off and secondary explosions. actually, I’m an Aries, so I do dig the Aryan Nation. We here in the Nations just want to be free. We are going off the Rez.
    Jaego, wake the fuck up and do your motherfucking time.
    My personal pet theory of the instant is that something may be true; it may be a difference in the right direction, but as emergent it is like a wart, not the whole beast. Then, and people always do this, you will get a digression into “why”, “how come”, and a war of words ensues where “because” is the linchpin. Many times there is no “cause” since no perceptible “effect” ensues; just a token gesture. Like Kunstler says, no combination of alt.fuels will enable us to power our cars and keep on going as we have. That was a long slog to sell that in the face of “Eat, drink and be merry.”
    Abbeysbooks, the cargo ship sulfur dioxide problem contributes to the acidification of the ocean, whereby the atmospheric acid now extant will increase the ocean’s acidity to levels not seen in the past 65 million years. That is what I brought to the article. Most acidification is carbonic acid from CO2.
    What we bring to the table is whatever we do about these problems, people are not to be blamed for recognizing a threat to their existence in the form of genocide, or even anticipating it by a little while. Someone in the high command will think of that sooner or later. Please make them think twice.

  224. Qshtik September 30, 2009 at 4:22 pm #

    “Grammer mammer
    Should be: none too pleased.”
    Right. And “Grammer” should be “Grammar”

  225. asoka September 30, 2009 at 4:28 pm #

    I said I respect your point of view, but don’t share it. I don’t really need your “help” in the form of feedback, especially when it is not offered respectfully.
    In response to my post you called my point of view “garbage”

  226. zzzzzz September 30, 2009 at 4:46 pm #

    “Right. And “Grammer” should be “Grammar””
    Not when it is part of word that I made up: Grammer Mammer.
    Is this another example of your ignoring me, simplefuck?

  227. Qshtik September 30, 2009 at 4:56 pm #

    By constantly responding to my posts? ;>}
    Zzz blinked! He showed a sign of weakness. He tried to get on my good side with a winking emoticon. Well, it won’t work ’cause I have no good side.
    If the emoticon is to be believed he also revealed that he has a pointy nose and some sort of a beard. It helps being able to visualize your adversaries. Jaego’s sister revelation today was a major slip on his part.
    BTW, I don’t constantly respond to your posts but I always read them in search of the ocassional nugget.

  228. Qshtik September 30, 2009 at 5:13 pm #

    Not when it is part of word that I made up: Grammer Mammer.
    It is two words, not one, and the part you made up was Mammer. Grammar already existed and you didn’t need to change the spelling to achieve the rhyme you wanted. You simply made a mistake. Now shut the fuck up!

  229. dale September 30, 2009 at 5:26 pm #

    In response to my post you called my point of view “garbage”
    To be a POV, it would have to be something you might actually be able to demonstrate. But your POV is manifestly not something you live, or you would be wandering the world like a crazed nomad. Whether you like it or not you still live in a conventional world with a “today” and a “tomorrow” and you DO conduct yourself accordingly.
    What you describe would be more of a fanciful notion, which you none the less represent as if it were real, and something you can actually accomplish. In reality you cannot accomplish it, except at some rare occasion where you might drag it out to annoy, buffalo or bewilder others.
    In fact, it is in simple parlance, bullshit.

  230. zzzzzz September 30, 2009 at 5:36 pm #

    “BTW, I don’t constantly respond to your posts but I always read them in search of the ocassional nugget.”
    Hmmm??? This makes response number three for the day.
    “Grammar already existed…”
    And this makes number 4. What a FUCKTARD!

  231. asoka September 30, 2009 at 6:23 pm #

    dale said: “In reality you cannot accomplish it, except at some rare occasion where you might drag it out to annoy, buffalo or bewilder others. In fact, it is in simple parlance, bullshit.”
    You seem to be generalizing, extrapolating, or projecting from your experience and drawing the conclusion that no one can have an experience different from yours.
    Again, I respect your need for a guiding value like “do no harm” … I would never make a judgment that your choice of values is garbage or bullshit.
    You apparently feel the need to judge others … without even knowing the experience of others … and you make strong declarations like:
    “Whether you like it or not you still live in a conventional world with a “today” and a “tomorrow” and you DO conduct yourself accordingly.”
    Some day you might discover that not everyone lives in the same limited world you now inhabit.
    I am perfectly happy with this present moment. Or, as the sutra says: “This very body the Buddha! This very world the lotus paradise!”

  232. abbeysbooks September 30, 2009 at 8:57 pm #

    Now I have your number. You are a kiss and slap kind of guy.

  233. abbeysbooks September 30, 2009 at 9:10 pm #

    As a mental patient (your label for yourself) I suggest you read Francoise Dolto’s Dominique:Analysis of An Adolescent Boy (I think I got that title correct). Since you are obsessed with words you might like to read the very best case study in all the psychoanalytic literature that I have read. It is in English translation. Dolto was a clinician who was also Lacan’s colleague. Lacan was a linguistic psychoanalyst who was “excommunicated” from the International Psychoanalytic Association. This means that you can do a training analysis with an aspiring analysand, but that person cannot be licensed or admitted into the guild (union) of analysts unless they undergo analysis with a licensed analyst.
    It is an extraordinary analysis of this boy considered retarded and about to be admitted into institutional care when she sees him. Within the French National Healthcare system too. The only other case study that comes close is D. W. Winnecott’s String also done within the British National Health Service. Winnecott was R.D. Laing’s analyst and is the one who first described and labeled the transitional object
    Words are the primary source of treatment and cure with Lacan and Dolto. And Dominique changes from session to session so dramatically that one’s head spins. Much much more that I won’t go into here.

  234. abbeysbooks September 30, 2009 at 9:13 pm #

    Sorry Jaego but you are so wrong that it would be impossible to try to refute you. I will not communicate with you anymore about the garbage that you think is true. I see that you have been working up to Nazi fascism all along. So go ahead if you want. It’s dated and false.

  235. abbeysbooks September 30, 2009 at 9:18 pm #

    Insults are not dependent upon the person feeling insulted.

  236. abbeysbooks September 30, 2009 at 9:20 pm #

    They are only going to be reassessed lower if you go to your county office and complain. If you don’t say anything, then…….
    I’ve already done mine now I have to follow up to see if they did it. No follow up, no reassessment either.

  237. abbeysbooks September 30, 2009 at 9:33 pm #

    I followed Armstrong for 3 years and never found him wrong. Whatever all the people on the internet say I can’t argue with as I have not followed him since the 80’s except to learn he was in prison. I do not know all the details of shy except that he was scheduled to manage a few trillion of Japanese money which was never wired to any of his accounts. I do know Princeton Economics went after brokers trading their clients money without ordering a brokers’ account (very expensive) with them instead of a personal account which I had at the time. As a matter of fact I still have the notebook that had all the trades each day. For a few months anyway. Would you like me to send it to you?
    As far as paranoia your examples are sloppy. FDR called in all gold in the last depression. People turned in all their gold coins and got treasury notes backed by silver. Of course our paper money now does not have that on it.
    As to the part about murder and torture: If you keep your gold in your own hands, then when you want to convert some of it you will have to do it on the black market, assuming it has been called in (this is what I meant as one sentence followed the other). Now if you are making an exchange on the black market, who will you be dealing with? Once you do it once, then they know who you are, don’t they? And if you have more hidden, now they suspect that you do, right? So you become prey, yes?
    That is all I meant. That is just following consequences of particular actions.
    Now if you don’t think they are going to devalue the dollar and confiscate gold bars, then there is no paranoia. And sometimes being paranoid is just sensible when you live in an authoritarian country where people can be locked up and not charged for years.
    And since I have studied all this psychological stuff all my life I stand a chance of having forgotten more than you ever will know about it.

  238. abbeysbooks September 30, 2009 at 9:40 pm #

    Oh you are so wrong. I prefer fucktard to your uneducated psychologising. It’s far more direct, no spin, and real. Freud wrote a great paper called Wild Psychoanalysis advising against it of course.

  239. abbeysbooks September 30, 2009 at 9:46 pm #

    What part of I haven’t followed him since the mid 80’s don’t you understand?

  240. abbeysbooks September 30, 2009 at 9:52 pm #

    SEB this is a word salad. You know what that means.

  241. seb September 30, 2009 at 10:41 pm #

    I have my thoughts already written. then, I got your afterthought: “word salad”, so I’ll treat that for a second, then rip into my notes.
    I do know that. It meant, vintage 1970, that they were about to render me a vegetable. That reminds me: Did the protests at home cause the US to lose in Vietnam, or were they going to lose because the gooks were going to murder them regardless? “Delusions of grandeur”, “ideas of reference”, and “schizophrenic insight” formed the jargon of the times, really medieval, sanctifying long-term institutional torture.
    “Obsessed”. you are hitting the trite highlights, alright, Toots. I prefer, “compelled”. I am compelled to do right. Words are found for free in all libraries; I scored 655 on the SAT verbal part, and if you were my mother I would have “Launched” (c.f. impelled, propelled) you across the kitchen and thus began my adolescent career as an escaped mental patient (they never let anybody go), not an individual. I’m wired in with the rest of you, connected psychically, thrashing like Prometheus to be free (I believe in 1969, part again (when Cyclamate went off the market), a girl in my physics class was reading Atlas, one was repelled (too thick), but she came back with Notes of a Dirty Old Man, so …).
    loc cit
    epp sut ultra
    (Eppy’s your pseudonym Dear Abby for a pseudointellectual book-smart helpless dress shield – – I taught you how to live on the street. You don’t understand, soul sister)
    [if that was word salad let me claify; the emergent properties are not the sums and differences the components of which are homogeneous and commensurable. They are otherwise and the proper study of the Nobel chemist Ilya Prigogine, developer of catastrophe theory, of the eponymous Institute, dealing with complexity, and herein, by extension, prognostication (if any word was salad maybe it stinks so much in here there’s not enough oxygen to get around all the stink particles and up your nose).]
    R. D. Laing
    My eponoymous last name has to do with escaping London during some rough stuff, or I’d be with basically decent folks instead of here, near Mexico.
    BTW, it is called “nuthouse time”, like unto “jail time”; it’s all just time (Charles “Hank” Bukowski. Epitaph: “Don’t Try”).
    We have alcoholic parents and thankfully we are breaking the cycle of violence by never striking our child. Nicholas, 5, is hitting the wall with a hammer. but, due a morbid fascination with bodily functions (yours), all i know is that RD Laing let us put feces–“smeared” feces, on the walls.
    you are just sore over the way I minced and steamrollered the Ayn Rand club in our forum, the people’s Court.
    Definitely watch TV but you have to be in bed at eleven.
    it’s 7:41. Back with the knack in fifteen.

  242. cowswithguns September 30, 2009 at 11:04 pm #

    To Abbey, who said “it’s dated and false,” when referring to the possibility of seeing Nazi Germany in the United States, I say: you’re wrong.
    Here’s proof:

  243. cowswithguns September 30, 2009 at 11:10 pm #

    I know you love Obama and all, and can’t imagine any wrongdoing on his watch, but here’s more proof of the police state. Note: I’m no GWB or Glen Beck lover.

  244. asoka September 30, 2009 at 11:19 pm #

    This technological assault against human beings, without concern for causing long term damage to them, is an assault on the exercise of constitutional rights.
    The era of massive street protests may be over. At least we still have voting, although voter registration efforts are also under attack (the nine attorney generals who could not find evidence of any ACORN wrongdoing were fired by Rove and company).

  245. cowswithguns September 30, 2009 at 11:26 pm #

    What would truly solve the problem with our democracy is being allowed to vote for the lobbyists that, in the end represent, us.
    You know, I really do wonder what would have happened if we had these LRAD devices during the days of the civil rights marches. Protest would have been stymied and KKK members would still be lynching blacks with impunity.
    This LRAD technology is leading us down a very, very slippery slope and no one seems to be covering this story.
    “First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
    Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist;
    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.”
    Friedrich Gustav Emil Martin Niemöller, Nazi opponent

  246. asoka September 30, 2009 at 11:31 pm #

    Thank you for raising this important issue of technology misuse against human beings.
    When the authorities shut down the possibility of peaceful assembly and nonviolent protest, they may unwittingly be creating incentive for other forms of protest which are not nonviolent and peaceful.

  247. abbeysbooks September 30, 2009 at 11:32 pm #

    I meant jaego’s reasoning. Yes we are headed for a fascist state. That’s what the Universal State is out of the ashes of the disintegrating empire.

  248. Max Headroom September 30, 2009 at 11:38 pm #

    Well finally. Finally. Asoka types something I can agree with. To wit:
    “When the authorities shut down the possibility of peaceful assembly and nonviolent protest, they may unwittingly be creating incentive for other forms of protest which are not nonviolent and peaceful.”
    To which I might add, there is nothing unwitting about it. About it.

  249. asia September 30, 2009 at 11:46 pm #

    Collapse is by its nature DISorderly :
    ‘just selling their newsletter, book, or speaking engagement’
    Look at the $$ some of these hucksters make…harry dent among them!

  250. seb September 30, 2009 at 11:51 pm #

    Complete the following sentence: “The first time I got naked in public I ______.”
    re: Dolto, Lacan, Dominique. The French appear prominently in the history of cinema and made “The natural Child” or something–okay. It may have been in a Communications class. Or, it may have been in a Film class, but films (by Kenneth Anger, or in one called, “God Star Man”, are equal to books in what they can do. So, you have a theory like : Helen Keller was not a “human being”. She became one in “the Miracle Worker” on the word, “water”, and this French thing was similar, with another deaf mute, as “objectified”, in a manner in which I am sure Ayn Rand would have approved, except they probably called the nature child an “objet”.
    So, we don’t automatically get to be human. I am bothered by horrible images, well, …(the carpet is swelling up towards me), when I am not somnambulistic, and this duality in my nature I know makes it imperative I read your mind, or be sucker-punched. but, this is in my own head; I own that.
    You know why? Because.
    [this is what happens when you input your own dull notes]
    I often need to separate out the autism of the State with what they accuse me. They take and label {chemicals, people} (a closed set), ‘demons’, …
    en masse
    …(aside); you terrified me with that “word salad”, bringing back the memories of being encircled,grabbed roughly and taken to the ECT room where I saw the ceiling fan turning before the chloroform knocked me out and next it was the slow turning of winter into spring. I wonder if you caught the lie as former Vice-President Gore, who knew damn well our goose is cooked allowed, with a hitch in his voice as to how there was still time to gain earthly carbon recompense if we get saved only now. He can blow me at 50K a pop. I had Roger Revelle hanging all over me. “Yes, Roger, I know who the fuck you are (he was a UCSD fixture)”.
    I mean autrocity, war crimes, psychosurgery, tuberculosis–
    since there is no word beyond “war crimes” and when we deny all future generations the gift of life, it is a little hard to pin them down, so I’m sessile, I’m a fish in torpor, I am he who neither sows nor reaps, nor does he spin (I do spin. I am spun, huh?); “my own label”. Riiiight. Instant Karma’s going to get you. Whatever I say, it’s their label for me.
    Confinement in custody in close quarters leads to tuberculosis, then you get to get quarantined as an AIDS patient. Picture Dick Cheney. I love that cis-platin and methotrexate and alkylating agents for chemo, but especially the wisp of hair in the tech’s eyes as she hoists the severed leg from a fresh amputation. “Hey, honey, don’t fall asleep while you’re waiting to give me that rescue drug.”
    But, namely, the way they sold phenothiazines. “If I keep taking this, I’m going to go simple. Look, it has already turned my skin all scaly and yellow.” “Just be glad they don’t do lobotomies any more.” “But I used to take drugs I wanted to take.” “Well, now you got to pay the Piper.” “But it is like being raped.” I may have been raped, for I have amnesia. At any rate it is all slowed down. Nothing is real. They say when you suffocate or drown, the body just gives up. “Let it happen.” It’s all good.
    They take us out of society not over some actual crime. People in custody have done no worse acts than those outside. They’re locked up for being undesirable.
    Now, the average tweak will sketch; he will catch an image, and you can nail it, just like you did with my word salad. Don’t belittle. With thick, wire-mesh glass, or two giant steps out of reach, there is nothing to be afraid of.
    See also Luis Bunuel, for the true nature of the documentary genre. It is surrealistic.
    I like spastic. I get used to things with names eventually. I knew “altruist” was a phony word. There is no true word for that. It is a straw man for Ayn Rand to operate. Stutterers. We bus up.

  251. asoka September 30, 2009 at 11:53 pm #

    Thank you for your patience with me.
    If it is not unwitting, then you are saying there is an intentional effort on the part of the authorities to foment a violent uprising among the citizens?
    That does not compute. Why would the authorities want to face RPG’s or IED’s or other forms of violence which have defeated USA forces in Iraq and Vietnam?

  252. Jaego Scorzne October 1, 2009 at 12:07 am #

    You are in the majority, the vast majority. Fifty million Frenchmen can’t be wrong? They can and almost always are. For generations, the Elite have bamboozled the American People, the intellectuals most of all. Marxism is their/your drug of choice. Face the Truth or you will die in your sins. Communism was a creation of the Capitalists to destroy real Culture and Peoples. You deny it. Fine. But you have to back up your denial with facts. Follow the money. Where did the Communists get their money from? It’s hard to admit you were just part of the herd. That you supported mass murderers who were just employees of Rockefeller and Rothschild. Oh they went there own way too. Stalin didn’t tow the line once he got in power. Mao either. But that’s how it started and that’s why we kept supporting the Soviet Union. And China. Doesn’t it seem even slightly strange that we abandoned the Nationalist when they had every chance of winning? Just like we abandoned the Whites in Russia-though they were in trouble. And even after all this, they still refered to Castro as just “an agrarian reformer”? No, McCarthy was right-we were being overwhelmed by academic commies like you. Well he was a better person that you. And now you complain about the kind of Goverment you helped to establish? A Centralized Liberal Monstrousity?
    Poor Joe McCarthy. He was warned that they would eat him alive and he said, “The American People would never allow that to happen to me”. He didn’t know how far the rot had spread. The people who did know, among others, was the John Birch Society. And they have been mocked to scorn for their trouble ever since. But they did good work-they slowed down the revolution by waking people up or incucing paranoia as quiz dic would say.

  253. cowswithguns October 1, 2009 at 12:13 am #

    I know green-shoots-seeing Asoka might disagree, but I think the reason why the P-burg cops (including Secret Service, Military, and everyone else who helped in the protest-supression effort) were clad in Star Wars outfits is because our leaders know how bad things really are, and they had an inkling that America does too, despite all the bullshit we’re spoon-fed. So they were ready to stop an uprising.
    But it didn’t happen. A few hippies simply wanted to protest, but that didn’t stop the cops from testing out their new civil-rights-quashing toys. They had fun and we took another step toward a police state.
    I think, following the G-20, the leaders looked at each other and were like “Wow, can you believe it, that’s all it took. I guess JHK was right [because I’m sure they read this blog] — Americans really do care more about cheese doodles and professional sports than they do civil rights and jobs.”
    “This whole sucking the taxpayers dry thing might be easier than we thought. Quickly, prepare the papers for the next round of bailouts!”

  254. asia October 1, 2009 at 12:13 am #

    Is it true? do plants procduce enough oil?
    From Swamp to Gas Pump – Cattails Take on New Role : Blue Planet …Aug 26, 2009 … Cattails add beauty to the landscape. Photo: Caryn Green …. Actress-activist Daryl Hannah is going to have one of the conversion kits …

  255. asia October 1, 2009 at 12:17 am #

    ‘Frenchmen can’t be wrong? They can and almost always are’
    what no mention of Polanski…whos mom died in a C Camp
    and all those who are signing the petion to keep him in europe
    woody allan
    head of miramax..is it weinstein???
    and on and on
    after drugging/raping a 13 year old

  256. Tomcat16 October 1, 2009 at 12:22 am #

    Asoka, it is all about stifling dissent – any and all dissent. It is about control of the people through fear.
    Look at the words that are used in the videos – “unlawful assembly” whether you’re there peacefully or not. If you’re there at all, you are in violation of “the law”. No dissent tolerated, peaceful or otherwise. None. Control of the population.

  257. asia October 1, 2009 at 12:23 am #

    The people who did know, among others, was the John Birch Society. And they have been mocked to scorn for their trouble ever since. But they did good …
    including Ashka here
    remember Gobbels [?]
    repeat a lie enuff and people will believe
    The JBS figured out the mr house to the prez was it truman or wilson in 1911 to the bankers to the spy who made the LON then the UN
    alger hiss…that was his name
    to taiwan being kicked out of UN and CC being put in in its place
    people are so dumbed down its pathetic
    i was at a party and someone began to dis the JBS…i said nothing
    its not for nothing that Rockefeller / gates/ buffet have visited red China.

  258. Jaego Scorzne October 1, 2009 at 12:23 am #

    You get smaller every day little man. You ever see that old movie, “The Incredible Shrinking Man”? You’re like him; pretty soon your wife is going to have to put you in the doll house so the cat doesn’t get you. And then you’ll get too small for that and you’ll fall through a crack into the cellar. If you keep going like you are, you’re going to get so small the insects will be after you.
    Ever see the statue of Shiva dancing? Shiva Nataraja-He creates and destroys the universe with his dance. Look at the foot he has on the ground-he’s dancing on top of a liitle guy-who symbolizes the human ego or dwarf soul. That’s you, the dwarf soul who knows nothing exepts his balance sheets of profit and loss. And you’re getting so small you don’t even know that too well.
    The economy lost what, 10 or 15 percent of its value? So gold and silver should have gone up accordingly. But they didn’t. They are being controlled somehow. You never heard of controlled markets? Of course you have, but you just don’t care about metals. Like so many others you just dismiss them. And that you will rue, little man.
    I admit I don’t know how; I never claimed finance as a specialty. But I have a good general bull shit detector and I know that something important is going on that effects me and everyone else who are smart enough to care about commodities in a time of collapse.

  259. seb October 1, 2009 at 12:32 am #

    Oh, sure. It was on a magazine cover, Sci Am or Discover. It was asking the question. Can we grow plants which will give us a petroleum replacement?
    But, there is a much smaller set of true statements which are fundamentally realistic.
    The parallel universes of truth plus reason and reality plus probability make the planet earn its name once in a while: Terra Firma, like “terror”. You do not even get to take oxygen to breathe for granted, and people, if you give them an inch, they take a mile. Well, my inches are the seconds I can make it without taking another breath. The accident of our birth means that we may be in the wrong place at exactly the right time and if not, our kids are.
    Most scientific words carry the weight of magic words.

  260. Jaego Scorzne October 1, 2009 at 12:34 am #

    Yeah they’ve been expecting trouble for a while and they’re gearing up-hot to try out their new duds and toys. They’ve also been practicing things like road blocks and personal searches. Mothers Against Drunk Driving was a godsend for them. And for the latter, homeland security allows it and God knows what else. Everything apparently.

  261. Max Headroom October 1, 2009 at 12:41 am #

    “If it is not unwitting, then you are saying there is an intentional effort on the part of the authorities to foment a violent uprising among the citizens?”
    It is certainly a plausible scenario.
    “That does not compute. Why would the authorities want to face RPG’s or IED’s or other forms of violence which have defeated USA forces in Iraq and Vietnam?”
    You made the assumption the violence would be against the authorities. Divide and conquer takes many forms. Violent uprising is, how you say, one of the least subtle. Subtle.
    Secondly, RPG’s are probably not a prevelant domestic (US) insurgent weapon. IED’s on the other hand are more a concept and therefore readily adaptable based on the environment.
    Oh and here’s a little Gore Vidal waxing political:

  262. Tomcat16 October 1, 2009 at 12:49 am #

    Very good article. Thx for posting.

  263. asoka October 1, 2009 at 1:23 am #

    Max, thanks for the Vidal article.
    Gore Vidal said: “We’ll have a military dictatorship fairly soon”
    He’s only off by 48 years. 56 years ago Eisenhower knew we were headed toward a military dictatorship when he gave his “Cross of Iron” speech in 1953.
    The last 48 years have seen the destruction of the USA as military budgets grew larger and larger, dictating budgetary priorities, enriching corrupt weapons manufacturers, and taking money away from health, education, employment and other human needs … accomplished through fear mongering and the militarization of American society. (in every congressional district)

  264. Mike-DownUnder October 1, 2009 at 1:26 am #

    As always Jim prose that enervates. Collectively, socially and economically this is what is like being in the eye of a hurricane (done a few for real myself), it’s gone all quiet and the sun is shining, then back it comes just as bad maybe worse.
    Anyhow, the reason all these forecasters have screwed up or are confused is simple really and for those who want to get a more detailed education have a look at Prof Steve Keens web blog – OZ Debtwatch and read Taleb. As a former student of math and economics, they are on the right track which is neoclassism as a doctrine has failed because it was based on some serious delusions.
    Another chap who can put the economic perspective on why our current system is stuffed, but not as eloquently or pungently as JK is the venerable Professor Herman Daly who currently is at Maryland. He has numbered up the problems into normal econ 101 type graphs, but the blinder in his anaylsis about lack or resources, waste etc is succinctly summed up thus:
    We are all about to find out, contrary to the smoke up the rear view we have indulged ourselves in as to our technological and economic prowess in the West over the past 150 years was that we did not actually solve the following problems;- Malthusian identified about over population and agrarian output, the problem Marx diagnosed problem of distribution of resources and capital and the problem Keynes found a temporary solution for in his general theory, that is of unemployment. So there are three horseman of the apocolypse and the fourth horseman is energy (oil and coal). The problem with both politicians or economists and most of us mere mortals is that they and we cannot easily or readily understand the 4 laws of thermodynamics and the concept of entropy which binds us like glue to a diminishing and desperate future regarding energy and matter with increasing build up of GHG’s which in turn destabilise another system etc etc.
    Here down under a former artist and author, Norman Lindsay penned a lovely satirical book ‘the magic pudding’ to attack OZ society and politicians by a kids book. He told of a land where you could eat and eat from the pudding but it never diminished. Well the pudding we have all been dining on was not magic and the financial and social shit storm is about to return. Where do you stash your dosh to survive? Us here in the drought ravaged once bountiful eastern states of Australia it is into a small parcel of dirt where the rain does fall occasionally, where we are off the grid and at the end of the day we have a small local community and great neighbours we know and can live with. Other than that all we can do is sit out the hurricanes return and it is going to blow – just look at the hogs jumping on Wall Street.

  265. Jaego Scorzne October 1, 2009 at 1:50 am #

    Someone once said that one of the secrets to surviving in Hollywood was to know that it’s run by Jews but never let on that you know. They don’t like that. Jews? What Jews? No one here but us chickens. But on occasion they like to brag and you have to just pretend that you didn’t hear anything. One of their big magazines, Time, admitted that Hollywood was run by Jews. Boasted. Gloried in. But nothing has changed, you still have to pretend that issue never came out and you know nothing. And same thing if you hear any jokes about shiksha screen tests.
    I didn’t even realize Polanski was Jewish-there are a few non Jewish directors! But it makes sense-now all the Jews will probably be on his side. Jews often act like they don’t think our laws should apply to them. And on the other side, the LAPD-a hard core gentile operation to be sure. It should be an interesting show.
    I don’t know the particulars. Some are saying that the Court broke his word and that’s why Polanski fled. So I’m not taking a side until I know more. Just going to enjoy the show.
    Thought experiment: how many Americans died in WW2? How many Jews? Interesting that one knows the latter but not the former, eh? You would think that this being America, the other number would be more prominently promulgated.

  266. Qshtik October 1, 2009 at 2:07 am #

    “The economy lost what, 10 or 15 percent of its value? So gold and silver should have gone up accordingly. But they didn’t. They are being controlled somehow.”
    Jaego, you know a lot about facism but you don’t know diddly about the law of supply and demand. My biggest winners are precious metals. It’s your paranoia that I posted about you fool. Listen to yourself … “They are being controlled somehow.” If something isn’t going the way you think it should … “gold and silver should have gone up accordingly” … the fix must be in. You and Abbey are the twins of paranoia.
    What the fuck does “accordingly” mean? Surely you don’t think there is a direct inverse relation between the stock market and precious metals do you? What a DOUCHE!

  267. asoka October 1, 2009 at 2:17 am #

    This is the Law of the Land in the United States military dictatorship. Personal information about you may be requested and the cable company or phone company or medical office or bank or whoever has to comply:
    “the disclosure may be required without a court order, without any prior notice to you that the government seeks the disclosure, without any prior opportunity for you to oppose the disclosure and without any notice that the disclosure has been made as required.”
    Stalin would be pleased with such legislation.
    Thank you, Mr. Bush, for pushing through the “Patriot Act”… and thanks to all the spineless Republicans and Democrats who voted for it.
    And shame on you, Barack Hussein Obama for supporting the Patriot Act reauthorization.
    Thanks to Ron Paul and Russ Feingold for having the guts to vote against the Patriot Act.

  268. Qshtik October 1, 2009 at 2:20 am #

    The concise insults were inserted at the recommendation of Zzz.

  269. vvolf October 1, 2009 at 5:16 am #

    Looking forward to reading that next book JK. Write on!

  270. budizwiser October 1, 2009 at 9:41 am #

    I don’t get the whole “predict the economy” problem. Nor do I subscribe to some kind “either or” – must prediction of inflationary or deflationary trends.
    When it comes to commoners, the poor, the disenfranchised the markets still work.
    In the past, economic growth was fueled by the consumption of things we want and things we need. (and the essential increase in debt)
    For the near term, things we “need” will continue to inflate in price to support the loss in profits from the production and consumption of things we were told we “wanted.” Many of these things we supposedly “want” will of course stagnate or deflate as inventories rise in the face of ever withering demand.
    Yahoo! Cell phones for ten bucks and 99-cent “value meals” – life is good. Everything else, strangely – seems to be going up……..

  271. zzzzzz October 1, 2009 at 9:56 am #

    “Freud wrote a great paper called Wild Psychoanalysis advising against it of course.”
    Hmmm…Dr. Shakey cites Dr. Freund’s book cautioning against “Wild Psychoanalysis” and yet she openly practices “Wild Psychoanalysis” on this blog. Curious. (And just slightly hypocritical??? Nah, not much.)

  272. messianicdruid October 1, 2009 at 10:04 am #

    “Note: I’m no GWB or Glen Beck lover.”
    Isn’t it sad when one must attempt to prevent people from jumping to wrong conclusions before you even open your yap.

  273. Qshtik October 1, 2009 at 10:32 am #

    “or incucing paranoia as quiz dic would say.”
    No, I would probably have said inducing paranoia.

  274. Jaego Scorzne October 1, 2009 at 11:19 am #

    Caring about important issues enriches ones life. You become more than just an isolated individual-which is what capitalism does to people. And also the personality is enriched. People who rave about individual fufillment have an noxious sameness about them-they all just care about their bellies and their genitals-and their portfolioes. Am I getting warm little fool?
    You will be gone like a fart in the wind. As for me-I will not wholly die-since I cared about this world. And in myself, I will go on to judgement-hoping for the best. You better hope that you just vanish like a fart in the wind-but unfortunately for you-it doesn’t work like that.
    It’s not just me who is wondering what’s up with the price of metals-but everyone. Everyone but you apparently. Perhaps you don’t know as much about it as you like to pretend.

  275. Jaego Scorzne October 1, 2009 at 11:22 am #

    Fuck the grammarian. I’ll strangle him with his own apron strings. He wears a frilly apron like the Dad in Rebel Without a Cause.

  276. zzzzzz October 1, 2009 at 11:58 am #

    That’s our little Grammer Mammer. A frilly apron, a Webster’s at hand and a Shirley Temple for fortitude. He dah man.

  277. asia October 1, 2009 at 4:09 pm #

    ’99-cent “value meals” – life is good.’
    as far as ‘roamin roman’ its an A list of hollywood creeps that beg for his freedom:
    debby winger!
    m scorsese!! woody allan , weinstein etcetc
    as far as how many GIs died in WW2….200,000?
    and more than 200k died from the…get this….
    lung cancer from smoking and they got hooked on cigs from the red cross…freebees
    the red cross killed more than the nazis
    so so much for those who say conspiracies dont exist

  278. asia October 1, 2009 at 4:11 pm #

    i saw the strangest sticker on an oversized truck at a building site
    it said :
    so there you grump…housing starts are up and the recession is over!
    Nascar loves drywall

  279. asia October 1, 2009 at 4:19 pm #

    like liberals? who would say yr mis informed if you watch GB ?
    liberal thought police who would tell someone to shut up?
    thanks to whoever posted the piece about the P ACT
    and ron paul didnt vote for but obama did
    channel surfing the radio this am i heard a black fellow and rush limbo goin at it
    rush was sayin that Obama is there to do the work of thos ewho put him there
    whats so right wing about that?

  280. Qshtik October 1, 2009 at 4:41 pm #

    “You get smaller every day little man.”
    Ooooooo, I think I blew ice cold air on an exposed tooth nerve ….. whatever.
    Let me go right to your second paragraph question: “Ever see the statue of Shiva dancing?”
    Actually, I have. And it gives me a perfect lead-in to one of many “nutcase” stories burning inside me to get out. Maybe you and Abbey will be able to spot yourselves in this story … like finding Waldo.
    Rob is the third husband of my wife’s cousin, Paulette. She is his second wife. They live in Denver. Rob is an exceptionally interesting, knowledgeable and funny guy although it invariably wears thin when he talks 12 hours straight, goes to bed, wakes up and picks up right where he left off.
    Rob is a Tibetan Buddhist. This is not a new thing with Rob … in the distant past he abandoned whatever traditional Christian religion he was born into. Rob flies in to the NY metro area once or twice a year to get “life coaching” from his “rinpoche.” He stays with my wife and me because he doesn’t have two nickels to rub together.
    Paulette, a long ago fallen away Catholic, does not put a label on her current belief system but she is guided by a Hindu “swamiji.” (At some appropriate age she ran like Usain Bolt from Catholicism as just one of many ways to emphatically reject all things connected to her mother.)
    Rob hated his prominent architect father but why, I don’t know. Paulette hated her mother from childhood on. Rob and Paulette both adore dogs. In fact one of their main sources of income is sitting and walking other people’s dogs. Paulette communicates well with dogs but poorly with people. Sadness oozes from a picture of Paulette at age 10 standing in the back yard with her dog. She’s a vegetarian but is overweight and has diabetes. Go figure. I say she could use a nice T-bone steak. She seeks, but does not find, happiness in all things non-traditional.
    But I’m getting off track … back to Shiva.
    We took Rob to the Rubin Museum of Art in NYC. It’s a gorgeous 7 floor building containing a vast collection of Himalayan art. (Jaego, you should check it out if you ever come to NY from your place in Montana (or Idaho?) where you’re holed-up with your weapons cache awaiting the brown hordes). Rob knows chapter and verse about nearly every piece. He could replace the resident docent in a heartbeat. People started trailing our little threesome around the museum to be within earshot as Rob held forth expertly in his booming voice. So, yes Jaego, I’ve seen the Shiva statue and if it’s me you see under his feet it’s just wishfull thinking.
    If you take Rob and Paulette’s prodigious accumulated knowledge of every asian belief system known to man and combine it with two bucks it’ll get you a ride on the subway.
    Why do I make this snide observation? Because these two highly educated people can’t seem to support themselves. Their only significant possession is a tiny bungalow inherited in excellent condition from Paulette’s hated mother and since fallen into disrepair. The house has been refi’d several times to pay down credit card debt and raise cash for groceries. The mom kept the house like Felix Unger but since R & P took over it’s become a dump. Paulette has zero decorating or other homemaking skills and doesn’t know how to boil water nor has the least inclination to learn. Her first two husbands made their livings by sponging off people. Paulette’s mate selection instincts are equal to her cooking skills. Needless to say, neither R nor P has any children … a curse that, never having had them, they will never understand. They are hounded by bill collectors yet Paulette ordered a large expensive statue of Budda from a Jackalopes outlet (full of useless junk that Kunstler would scoff at) 400 miles away in Santa Fee and drove there to pick it up. It sits today in an unkempt shrine in their backyard. Rob committed to doing, over a period of years, a huge number (a million, I think) of “prostrations” as a spiritual exercise. Rob is a former drug and alcohol abuser. Paulette is a compulsive buyer of jewelry and even her swamiji told her it was unseemly. Instead of working at making a decent life for themselves they fritter away their time and energy doing the bidding of their spiritual guides. She goes to a “stupa” up in the mountains. My wife gets annoyed with me when I call it a “stupid.”
    Both R & P are consumed with the idea that everything is controlled by never-named hidden powerful people. As much as they detested George W. they are certain he was under the control of others … and not Dick Chaney. Chaney was a mere puppet too. They see these dark forces as the cause of their difficult life. Paulette tries incessantly to sell her religious and political convictions to the point where people flee from her like they flee Morman missionaries. After a week swing through the southwest a few years back I told my wife I would never again allow myself to be trapped on a “vacation” with such a negative person.
    All Paulette and Rob have is each other and a gigantic dog named Yogi.
    Despite my lack of formal schooling in mental disorders I know “fucked up” when I see it.

  281. asoka October 1, 2009 at 4:53 pm #

    Have you ever thought of writing a novel? You have the material for it in your own family.
    Hare Krishna!

  282. messianicdruid October 1, 2009 at 5:12 pm #

    a funny little vid for your friends…

  283. Jaego Scorzne October 1, 2009 at 10:43 pm #

    A fascinating story. You are connected to failures on the spiritual path who reinforce your opinion that it’s all bullshit. And you probably reiforce their belief that the world is full of cold, materialistic mockers. All three of you are “mated to the foot”-nitya baddha-eternally bound. Shiva’s uplifted foot-which He is pointing to, is the giver of grace. But you have to believe first little man…you have to have faith or you’ll never get out from under.
    I’ve met people like them-very unfortunate. They tried for too much too soon. You can’t renounce Life until you’ve made one. How can you give up what you’ve never had? There are some people who seem prevented from attaining wealth by grace-sometimes consciously and sometimes not. But these two sound unkept, unbalanced, and ungrounded in the ordinary way-they are probably just the fuck ups you see them as.

  284. abbeysbooks October 1, 2009 at 11:01 pm #

    Jaego why are you wondering what’s up with the price of metals? Dollar goes down, gold goes up. Simple.

  285. Jaego Scorzne October 1, 2009 at 11:07 pm #

    Perhaps we can use chlorophyll as fuel; as Dylan Thomas said, “the force which through the green fuse drives the flower.” But our cars would have to become pods and our whole technology become organic like that movied Zone 9.
    Quiz Dic said that it was tragic that I would never understand the meaning of it, but I think I did alright. I think the whole PC angle of South Africa and the camps was just a lure to get people in. The movie wasn’t really about that. It was far more about transformation. The main character, a goofy, ambitious, bumbler promoted above his ability get zapped and begins to transform into a lobster man. As he changes, everyone sees him as a monster but he becomes a better person-more human in fact. Becoming a White Nationalist is the same. The world sees you as a prawn, but you are waking up and becoming a real person for the first time. Not letting the world infect your self image-that’s what takes strength. But I never doubt my beliefs-or my decency.
    The Aliens are mostly animalistic. They are a worker caste. They are shown eating out of garbarge bins. Only the Alien Scientist and his son are higher ethical beings. And most of the humans are crap too. The Nigerians are portrayed as absolute savages-so much for political correctness. And the Whites are shown as brutal corporate executives or their mercenaries-so everyone sucks basically-a truthful movie. And the main character sucks too-until he becomes a monster. The Alien Scientist never complains about the camp-there is no PC angle here at all. What is there to say-they are aliens and have no rights and he knows it. You can’t have lobster men walking around all over the place. Just like you wouldn’t have humans free on their world.
    He does complain when he finds out the Corporation is experimenting on his people. And he flies off to get help presumeably. Other than that, there is no PC stuff here at all, just a good story with a moral and moments of humor.
    South Africa itself had a nice program of semi independence planned for the Blacks. But their huge increase in population, due to White care and feeding, doomed it. And their resentment and hatred didn’t help either. Nor did millions of Blacks sneaking in from the rest of Africa to get “brutalized”. And then the International Campaign of human rights, so called kicked in with the sanctions.
    South Africa should have given the ANC 75% if the land and then held the rest for Whites. They could have done it if they got rid of the Blacks from that quarter. But they chose comfort and profit over freedom. Needless to say, they got neither. The plan would have been historically just too: the Blacks never got to the southern part of the country. The climate changes there and they hadn’t yet adapted. In fact, one big group, the Zulus, were just coming down from the North as the Boers came up from the south. The Southern part had been peopled by Bushmen and Hottentots, not the Blacks at all.

  286. Jaego Scorzne October 1, 2009 at 11:10 pm #

    No, read more carefully. What you just said is what I told Quiz dic. What I’m wondering about is how they are keeping the price of gold artificially low. Any ideas?

  287. abbeysbooks October 1, 2009 at 11:12 pm #

    That child was pimped by her mother to Polanski to entice him. She was a beautiful child who bore a certain resemblance to Sharon Tate. She was erotic the way Brooke Shields was in Pretty Baby and Brooke was pimped by her mom too.
    And then after he did it comes the bloodsucking payoff. He paid them and was screwed by a lying judge.
    At that time in the mid 70’s there were any number of lovely adorable little girls who were sexually experienced. Free love and all that. That girl was set up and she probably doesn’t know to this day that her mother did it.
    Else why wasn’t the mother at the photo shoot? Or maybe she was. I mean don’t mothers of 11 year old girls go with them to photo shoots done by well known film directors? Has anyone not heard of the casting couch? She was perfectly lovely, enticing and probably innocent. But how was Polanski to know that. He is not a stupid man and he probably thought she was there for the above reason. Only he didn’t expect to have to pay all that much money for her. Today she really doesn’t seem tarnished by the incident. Her accent and grammar is not educated, just working class. So I am guessing she came from a working class family who saw money.
    I don’t think this man is a bad man like Garrido.

  288. abbeysbooks October 1, 2009 at 11:20 pm #

    Yes. The government sells into any gold rally to force the price down. If gold goes up it signals a weak dollar internationally. The government cannot afford to let gold go up but they cannot keep doing this forever.
    The German banks are not selling any gold. Neither are the Swiss banks. The gold dealers are all back ordered. The premium on junk silver coins and gold eagles or maple leafs are huge.
    I have been reading Miles Franklin http://www.milesfranklin.com/splash.asp since 2000 pretty regularly and have known he was correct since way back then. You can get his free newsletter emailed to you about once a week. He summarizes all the rest of the metal people. Jim Sinclair, Martin Armstrong, The Eden sisters, and a bunch of others. Sometimes they disagree but usually only on minor issues.

  289. Jaego Scorzne October 1, 2009 at 11:28 pm #

    It sad about Jaycee. Just like people used to get kidnapped out of cults by anti-cult cults, she has been kidnapped by feminist psychologists who are trying to make her deny her feelings for her captor/husband/father. She has to have some positive feelings or she wouldn’t be so normal now. But will they respect the complexity of the human soul? Will they let her visit-and let her daughters see their father? Sure, he’s a creep. But so are most men. And so are most women. It’s true that there are more male criminals, psychopaths, and retards. Women see this and feel superior. But they don’t look to their left-up the bell curve, and see that there are more male geniuses too. The right side is more numerous I’m sure however. Our policy of dysgenics isn’t helping either. Women who don’t want to get married but want to have children should go to the Pioneer Fund which stores the sperm of geniuses.
    Anyway, a tough situation to be sure. Gerrido is probably power tripping but even monsters make sense sometimes and have rights. Ahmedinejad makes great sense when he says that if Europeans feel guilty about their treatment of the Jews, they should have set up “Israel” in Germany. Why punish the Palestinians?

  290. abbeysbooks October 1, 2009 at 11:28 pm #

    The alien situation in the film was a mirror of the locations the blacks in South Africa used to have to live in. Then if they had work they would have to walk miles to and from. A real horror. So put all of us say in a small area without any comforts living in tin shacks and starving and how civilized would we continue to be? After all we can’t get along here as it is.
    The facft that the blacks are exploiting them is a statement that the former scapegoats now have some of their very own scapegoats to dump on. Hooray!
    Whe they came out of the space ship i the begiing they were starving and sick. The fact that the scientist shows such a high level of technological sophistication is a statement that weird looking beings in the universe may be much farther advanced than we are and will probably treat us as bad as we have treated others if it comes to that.
    I just read this week that in 20 years we will be able to be immortal if we wish and have the money to pay for it. Nano somethings will replace blood, and we will be capable of astounding physical feats with our replacement limbs etc. We may even begin to resemble these aliens.
    More advanced than PC. Houellebecq has already written a nvel about this immortality thing that is going to be possible. Very soon.

  291. abbeysbooks October 1, 2009 at 11:58 pm #

    Replying not in order. Palestine was chosen because the Palestinians have traditionally been on the wrong side of western nations in wars. They also were all ready to set up the final solution there and the Nazis made a trip to the arab leader to discuss this and praise him. It’s all detailed in Left in Dark Times by Bernard-Henri Levy. I’m not going to go upstairs and footnote all this but it is there with names. So that’s why Palestine was chosen. And the fact that the Zionists were already there and knew what was coming to the diaspora jews who wouldn’t listen. And the Palestinians are just the straw men for the Iranian would be dictator. When you are on the losing side in a war you can expect to pay for that. Well the Germans paid too but then we bailed them out.
    As far as Jaycee is concerned she is in a dilemma. How can she regret what was done to her without regretting her two daughters. If it had not happened to her she would not have them. How could she wish not to have them? It is clear she did the best she could for them. Garrido is quite clearly insane, and brilliantly so. For a little girl kidnapped by him, locked in a soundproof and dark shed, and raped repeatedly is pure terror.
    Then there is the fact that this man is criminally insane and at some level this child Jaycee knew it. She must have drawn on some unbelievable spiritual strength to master this situation. I think he was telling the truth when he said he had experienced a complete change, a metamorphosis of sorts. After all we do know from his own words that st Paul helped stone Stephen to death, a gruesome way to die that he participated in before he experienced conversion. And Lolita is another example that people don’t acknowledge. Humbert Humbert goes to see her at the end. She is married, wan and undernourished looking, has a baby and or is pregnant with another. She is iroing or some such household chore and just no longer the vibrant sassy nymphet she was. Just another worn down poverty stricken young woman in a stupid marriage. And he realizes that he really loves her in a way he never did before. That he really really loves her just the way she is now. And he is stricken, not with what he did, but that he is a different person now.
    I think this is what happened to Garrido. And Jaycee revealed who she was not to punish him or escape but because an authority figure asked her her name and she told him her real one and then it all came out.

  292. abbeysbooks October 2, 2009 at 12:21 am #

    And another thing about Jaycee. Every single one of us is here because our female ancestors endured exactly the same thing as Jaycee. Not one of us escapes this fact. So perhaps that is why she survived. The collective unconscious.

  293. asoka October 2, 2009 at 1:00 am #

    “our female ancestors endured exactly the same thing as Jaycee. Not one of us escapes this fact.”
    Especially those women who marry. Marriage is prostitution with a license, that permits legalized rape.

  294. abbeysbooks October 2, 2009 at 1:16 am #

    Yes. Marriage is about property. and about trying to make sure your genes inherit your stuff. Crazy.

  295. Jaego Scorzne October 2, 2009 at 10:24 am #

    The institution of marriage created civilization. Before that, women were left “holding the bag”. For you to suggest or insinuate, that it is “just rape” or that it is not in a woman’s interest to have a mate feeding her when she is with child and then supporting her and the child-well, it’s just crazy hatefulness. I got this when I was in college too. And if the man does all this, he is a monster if he askes for something in return? The way my female (wont say woman) professor thought. Men are just objects to be used and discarded by women. How dare they ask for anything from such exalted creatures such as herself. As if a man supposed to slave away for twenty years for a child that is not even his! Revelation to Abbey: men have desires to reproduce just like women do.
    Now perhaps you have no such desire-or at least weak enough that you can override it. Fine. Good for you. But what about other woman not so strong or weak? Not fashioned in the same way? The path of greatest happiness for most woman is marriage and family. But the lesbians and spinsters have gained alot of prominence in academia and media and are now trying to change the norms for women-with disastrous results. John Young, a White Nationalist journalist, did a four part expose about the new prostition-beautiful, college educated women who think it’s a fine profession. After all, marriage is just rape or at best sex without renumeration. Why not get paid for it? This is the end of Civilization-because of people like you. You may not have meant it-but this is what happens when you teach false ideas like this to regular girls. Abbey-only a few girls can or even would ever want to emulate your ascetic, intellectual solitude. But you and your ilk can succeed in knocking these poor fools off the path that IS their’s.
    You remind me of a woman I worked with up till recently. She got promoted-I’m glad. We had great talks but we diverged completely on issues like this. As a somewhat masculine but heterosexual woman, she was naturally conflicted. She had a short, terrible marriage and got one child from-a girl whom she has spoiled rotten and twisted about men. She naturally has a difficult path but she can walk it because she is so gifted in other ways-intellectually, spiritually-hence our great talks. But she cannot see that hers in an unusual or exceptional way. She thinks she shold be the norm and she cannot stand regular feminine women who are happily married and not out conquering the world. She gets along good with alot of the women in the office because they are the neuteured worker types-short hair, feminist thinking, etc. The type that work in libraries and sequester good books in the reserved section where no one can browse them. Like Eyesenck’s work on IQ-can’t have people seeing that Blacks are dummies. They’re alright. But wives and mothers-not alright.
    Btw, I didn’t mean that you are masculine in any way-just that your basic attitude matches my ex coworker. Your attitude is masculine of course-feminism is based on jealousy of the masculine and hatred of the feminine.

  296. dale October 2, 2009 at 11:39 am #

    I don’t think this man is a bad man like Garrido.
    Abbey, I’m about as liberal as they come and I realize that Polanski was screwed by a crooked judge, in terms of his plea bargain.
    That being said, I read the police report of the case regarding the 13 year old girl. Try it, it’s on line. If you still have any respect or sympathy for this man after you have a stronger stomach than I. This wasn’t missionary sex with a willing partner.

  297. zzzzzz October 2, 2009 at 12:04 pm #

    “I don’t think this man is a bad man like Garrido.”
    If you think there is nothing wrong for a man to take advantage of a 13 year old girl, regardless if her mother was “offering her up” all of you higher education and all of your pathetic (I might add) philosophizing is for naught. You are morally bankrupt and lower than wormshit.

  298. zzzzzz October 2, 2009 at 12:13 pm #

    “I just read this week that in 20 years we will be able to be immortal if we wish and have the money to pay for it. ”
    Now there is something to aspire too. Immortal life, so we could listen to your morally bankrupt, fucktarded rants for eternity. Where oh where does one sign up?

  299. zzzzzz October 2, 2009 at 12:19 pm #

    Hey Dr. Shakey,
    Know how fucked up you are? Roman raped and sodomized a 13 year old. You thought she was fucking 11. You knocked two years off her actual age and still thought it was OK. How fucking sick is that? Hey what the fuck, lets say she was still in diapers. Go for it Roman. Nothing wrong with that. The big baby was just begging for it. (What a fucking creep you are Dr. Shakey.)

  300. dale October 2, 2009 at 1:13 pm #

    “She must have drawn on some unbelievable spiritual strength to master this situation.”
    Yes, it’s most likely denial, and it is probably the same “strength” that causes Polanski’s victim to feel that the case against him should be dropped. This phycological situation is one of the reasons we don’t let victims decide what happens to their victimizers.
    The best comment about this I’ve heard is that Polanski’s defenders in the entertainment world would almost certainly be baying for his death if his title and name were “Father Polanski”.

  301. Max Headroom October 2, 2009 at 1:44 pm #
  302. Max Headroom October 2, 2009 at 1:48 pm #

    Ok, let’s, let’s try this again. Again.

  303. asia October 2, 2009 at 1:52 pm #

    ‘I don’t think this man is a bad man like Garrido’
    O PLEEZE LADY GOOO AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    and there think anything ya damn well pease
    about the victim / her mom/ polanski/whoopi etc

  304. Max Headroom October 2, 2009 at 1:56 pm #

    Hohoooo yeeessss. I knew you’d be surprised.

  305. Qshtik October 2, 2009 at 2:19 pm #

    I was accused of “Wild Psychoanalysis.” I made the case that I know “fucked-up” when I see it but I needed a more scientific term for Abbey and Jaego … something to lump them together using the word “Duo.” I hoped for something appropriate that began with the letter D because I love alliteration and it’s sooo effective in a putdown. Safire’s “nattering nabobs of negativism” flashed through my mind. Not too bad … applicable … but not harsh enough. Besides, I’d already committed to “Duo.”
    I googled “List of Mental Disorders.” Among the offerings was an alphabetized list. Paydirt! I clicked on D. Up came 21 labels, from “Delirium” to “Dysthymic disorder,” half I’d never heard of. I scanned up and down. “Dementia,” no, that won’t do; “Down syndrome,” of course not; “Depression,” welllll, there surely must be some present in Abbey but I don’t know about Jaego.
    BINGO “Delusional disorder.”!
    Now, what’s Delusional disorder all about? Here is the flavor:
    Indicators of a delusion
    1) The patient expresses an idea or belief with unusual persistence or force. (true for both)
    2) That idea appears to exert an undue influence on his or her life, and the way of life is often altered to an inexplicable extent. (yes and yes)
    3) Despite his/her profound conviction, there is often a quality of secretiveness or suspicion when the patient is questioned about it. (Abs, some personal detail/life experiences revealed; Jag, none)
    4) An attempt to contradict the belief is likely to arouse an inappropriately strong emotional reaction, often with irritability and hostility. (both post raging replys to my comments)
    5) The patient is emotionally over-invested in the idea and it overwhelms other elements of his or her psyche. (Abs, yes; Jag, hell yes)
    6) The delusion, if acted out, often leads to behaviors which are abnormal and/or out of character, although perhaps understandable in the light of the delusional beliefs. (Abs, learns about/gives lessons on how to handle being served a search warrant; Jag, purchases weapons/plans move to remote Montana/learn farming)
    1) It is a stable disorder characterized by the presence of delusions to which the patient clings with extraordinary tenacity. (absolutely .. no further comment req’d)
    2) The illness is chronic and frequently lifelong. (yes, probably since teens or 20s)
    3) The delusions are logically constructed and internally consistent. (yes, unlike slimey eel)
    4) The individual experiences a heightened sense of self-reference. Events which, to others, are nonsignificant are of enormous significance to him or her, and the atmosphere surrounding the delusions is highly charged. (Abs, Jaycee; Jag, all current events)
    1) Erotomanic Type: delusion that another person is in love with the individual. (Yuk, no way, farthest thing from either’s mind)
    2) Grandiose Type: delusion of inflated worth, power, knowledge, identity, or special relationship to a famous person (Abs, Ayn Rand, Allan Greenspan; Jag, knowledge of history perverted to support fascist argument)
    3) Jealous Type: delusion that the individual’s sexual partner is unfaithful . (Abs, sex? that’s a joke, at 75 that would be “going dry turkey”; Jag, hasn’t had sex for so long his sperm look like mature frogs)
    See also
    Paranoia (like I always said)
    So there we have it … Abbey and Jaego are CFN’s Delusional Disorder Duo

  306. asia October 2, 2009 at 2:56 pm #

    there have always been ‘hookers’…what didnt exist 100 years ago is a world media that anyone foolish enuff can be drawn into to see it glamorized…including films
    the media celbrates decadence
    what has for me been the biggest laugh of the polanski arrest is the ‘ strong’ women of hollywood..the feminazis…Whoopi and her minions

  307. Tomcat16 October 2, 2009 at 2:58 pm #

    Classic. Very funny video…
    “…and this not only affects us, but the entire global economy. YAY!!!”

  308. asia October 2, 2009 at 3:00 pm #

    thats the sharpest insight yve offered here!
    if he were catholic priest instead of chalet owning jet set film maker whos mom died in the holocaust…well Hwood would want his head.

  309. asoka October 2, 2009 at 3:31 pm #

    “…businesses that don’t have customers aren’t going do a lot of new investing. And foreign nations also suffering high unemployment aren’t going to buy a lot of our goods and services.
    And without customers, companies won’t hire. They’ll cut payrolls instead.
    Which brings us to the obvious question: Who’s going to buy the stuff we make or the services we provide, and therefore bring jobs back? There’s only one buyer left: The government.
    Let me say this as clearly and forcefully as I can: The federal government should be spending even more than it already is on roads and bridges and schools and parks and everything else we need. It should make up for cutbacks at the state level, and then some. This is the only way to put Americans back to work. We did it during the Depression. It was called the WPA.
    Yes, I know. Our government is already deep in debt. But let me tell you something: When one out of six Americans is unemployed or underemployed, this is no time to worry about the debt.”
    Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/the-truth-about-jobs-that_b_307642.html

  310. Jaego Scorzne October 2, 2009 at 3:38 pm #

    Yeah but what if I’m right? Am I still ar “racist” if I’m right about the Black IQ? Am I still a crazy if I’m right about who funded communism? Am I still a “hater” if I’m right about the identity of the group who contols the Federal Reserve and who comprised the leadership of communism?
    As I said before, 50 million Frenchmen can still be wrong. You take complete assurance from the fact that your beliefs are those of the majority. That assurance is philosophically naive. The consensus reality of any Society is always full of holes-and it changes. You are afraid of being alone and you unconsciously change with it. If you were conscious of the process, you wouldn’t be able to believe it so strongly or take such solace in it. You are VERY ATTACHED to your place in the herd.
    A humorous thought: if White Nationalists took power, you would study our doctrines for a few weeks-being a quick study you would catch on to not only our Theories but our attitudes, sense of humor, history, vision, etc. And then you would be back-maybe even on this site or one like it. You would chide people who departed from our party line and question their sanity. And of course, your important work with the English Language would continue. As you have admitted before, you are an adapter-you really don’t have views of your own. You take the views that currently have “currency”. It’s all part of being such a dwarf soul. Woody Allen made a movie about a guy like you-a chameleon, based on a real person perhaps. I never got around to seeing it though. It’s called “Zelig”.

  311. Tomcat16 October 2, 2009 at 4:03 pm #

    More government spending is the absolute last thing we need now and the surest – and quickest – road to hell. (Are we there yet?)
    My Gawd, you’re agreeing with Dick “Deficits-don’t-matter” Cheney (and yet, you like Ron Paul)? Further proof that there is no real difference between Dems/Repubs except in what they SPEND all that money we don’t have on.
    Just watch the video:
    Enjoy & have a few laughs with it. And also wake up… sheep.

  312. dale October 2, 2009 at 4:15 pm #

    thats the sharpest insight yve offered here!
    Yes…well were still waiting for you to offer up anything here that is purely and transparently ideological and self serving.

  313. dale October 2, 2009 at 4:16 pm #


  314. Qshtik October 2, 2009 at 4:59 pm #

    On Monday I quoted from an article written in 2005 by the late Wm. Safire titled How to Read a Column. Its 4th rule read as follows:
    When infuriated by an outrageous column, do not be suckered into responding with an abusive email. Pundits so targeted thumb through these red-faced electronic missives with delight, saying “Hah! Got to ’em.”
    Though I know this instinctively it’s hard not to get suckered. And so I’ve made a conscious effort not to reply directly to the more outrageous comments made by the person I call “the slimy eel.” The last thing I want to do is give him the delight of saying “Hah! Got to ’em.” But sometimes there’s no way around it. The slimy eel is reading these words right now and saying to himself “Hah! Got to ’em.” So, make no mistake, most of the slimy eel’s posts are designed to produce a red-faced reply of outrage. And what is my point? you may ask.
    Abbey is not like the slimy eel. When she says something outrageous … something you want to throttle her for … you know it’s something she believes in and not just some christian tossed into a ring of hungry lions for amusement.
    Well here’s the thing … Abbey has made probably the most outrageous statement I have read since stumbling into ClusterFuckNation. (Hold for a moment … It’s short and I will be quoting it momentarily.) I expected to see an immediate and vehement negative response coming in from all quarters but no … the first response was an affirmative pat on the back from the slimy eel supporting Abbey for having spoken some profound truth … outrageous squared! Then Abbey echoed back something actually true but insanely characterized it as “Crazy.” outrageous cubed!! Finally, and to his credit, Jaego began a spirited rebuttle with: “The institution of marriage created civilization.” Here is the sequence:
    “And another thing about Jaycee. Every single one of us is here because our female ancestors endured exactly the same thing as Jaycee. Not one of us escapes this fact. So perhaps that is why she survived. The collective unconscious.”
    The slimy eel:
    Especially those women who marry. Marriage is prostitution with a license, that permits legalized rape.
    Yes. Marriage is about property. and about trying to make sure your genes inherit your stuff. Crazy.
    Think about the implications of this … this is a woman who’s been teaching our kids for decades. A woman who has recently been advising PeekOilLori how to proceed in reading books to young impressionable girls.
    And the slimy eel cheers her on! Well, what can you expect from a man?? who has his nuts tied off around age twenty?
    I hope all you star-struck Hollywood watchers will get off the Polanski story and focus on a much bigger picture. You’ve gotta let Abbey and the slimy eel have it with both barrels.

  315. Jaego Scorzne October 2, 2009 at 5:09 pm #

    Well that’s whay I’m saying-the attitude is changing about it-from condemnation to acceptance-
    partially because of the glamourization. But also because of the “do me” school of sex positive feminism. And the practice is getting easier due to the internet and craig’s list. The days of the pimp and pimpmobile are long gone. Anyway, I think alot of people would be surprised what they’re teaching girls in “women’s studies”. They did a poll of few years ago in Russia: 30 percent of the girls were seriously thinking about becoming prostitutes. Are we sure that it would not be a similar number here?
    A friend told me that one of Obama’s Czars-the one for school saftey-is the founder of the Gay Staight Alliance and was implicated in the “fistgate” scandal in Boston where they taught kids about arcane sexual practices like the above. Have you heard anything? He got it on Michael Savage.

  316. Qshtik October 2, 2009 at 6:34 pm #

    Jaego said: “I think alot of people would be surprised what they’re teaching girls in “women’s studies”.”
    When my daughter entered Rutgers at 18 she had no idea what she wanted to do … she just knew she had to get a degree. She drifted awhile and finally wound up in “women’s studies.” I groaned. I used the same line on her as I used yesterday about Rob and Paulette: “A degree in women’s studies plus two bucks will get you a ride on the subway.” (I love that line … it’s almost universally applicable.)
    Rutgers is an institution that any self-respecting conservative would label as “pinko.” My daughter, being typical of our age, and the product of a hyper-liberal community, fit right in to women’s studies. She was constantly buying me Noam Chomsky books for my birthday and Christmas. The topper though was A People’s History of the US by Howard Zinn. Talk about negative … you and Abbey would love it … I read 5 pages, skimmed a few chapters, and gave it back. I told her I grieved that she was buying-in to Zinn’s grim message.
    (Contrary to what you imply they do not teach them to prostitute themselves. If anything they push a men-are-pricks lesbian feminist agenda (lots of carpet munchers with short hair wearing flannel shirts and drinking Bud from the bottle … “not that there’s anything wrong with that”). Luckily you can’t teach people to switch their sexual orientation in either direction … she’s engaged … to a man.)
    Well, she’s 29 now, has a decent management position in retail (with Ralph Lauren in NY) and I don’t hear as much commie talk as I used to.
    P.S. That movie you wrote your Heinrich Himmler review about last night is titled District 9, not Zone 9.

  317. asia October 2, 2009 at 6:45 pm #

    thats just Mr A being himself
    a few weeks ago here he siad not to worry..things are fine AFTER ALL APPLE JUST GROSSED 3 BILLION
    he goes from the particular to the general with a flying leap!
    and he loves BIG govt.
    dale as far as yr comments…say anything you want here

  318. Tomcat16 October 2, 2009 at 6:48 pm #

    Totally agree about the whole Polanski thing – it is such a NON-issue. Hopefully it’s dead on here. And fuck Hollywood.
    I saw that exchange on here this morning and just shook my head… was gonna reply that they should continue their little lovefest offline, go get a room or something… the phone rings, semi-lengthy conversation, and then I’m out the door for a job interview. I too figured someone would let ’em have it but apparently not.
    Consider the sources here. Like you said, with Abbey, “you know it’s something she believes in”, so something someone tells her is probably not going to make much of a dent. The slimy little eel – well, he’s blown about in the wind (like a fart) tethered to nothing but whatever is “required by the present moment.” “Float away you wee fairy” [Scottish accent].
    You pick your battles. Sometimes you jump in with both barrels; sometimes you let slide because something is just so outrageous it doesn’t warrant a response, and this is an Internet blog and at the end of the day, it ain’t gonna matter. Nothing changes. So is it worth it here, considering the sources (even understanding the implications)?
    Have to say, I’m not sure about the slimy little eel having his nuts tied off though – that would assume he ever had any in the first place.

  319. asoka October 2, 2009 at 7:07 pm #

    “I’m not sure about the slimy little eel having his nuts tied off though”
    The procedure is called a vasectomy. The testicles are not involved. It is the removal of a small portion of the vas deferens to prevent sperm from impregnating a woman.
    To have a vasectomy you have to be intelligent enough to know what it is, caring enough to know why you should do it, and man enough to go through with it.

  320. Tomcat16 October 2, 2009 at 7:15 pm #

    “Hah! Got to ’em.”
    Asoka, don’t be a starry-eyed sucker all your life, quoting from books or whatever sources you scurry through all day long. Grow some balls, dude. Yeah yeah yeah, I took biology in high school too.
    “Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.”

  321. abbeysbooks October 2, 2009 at 7:32 pm #

    I read it and being a woman and a sexually active one at that time, I ca say that this child didn’t know what she wanted. She didn’t know if it was yes or no. There were so many of them around then playing Lolita (Nabokav is so perceptive)and to whom sex was a thing to try. I am sure she was very nervous. She indicates that in her testimoney. But I was an adult at the time and would have been just as nervous with him.
    My 13 year old niece was doing this sort of thing with older men at the time in Philly. I was panicked but had no control over her or her actions. I reported one of them to the police and he just shrugged.
    No he should not have done it. But he is a European and this kind of thing is more acceptable over there. The mother pimped hr daughter and I bet this wasn’t the first time. I saw a lot of that too from hippie moms who were into free love and did not want to restrict their children as they had been restricted.
    The context of this is all important. It was at Jack Nicholson’s house. Jack Nicholson! The big movie star! Maybe he would even want to star her daughter in a film. She says that she was hoping the photo shoot would lead to career moves. Certainly the mom and her daughter were thinking about these things. And at that time many young girls said no when they meant well, OK. It was a scripted game. Act too eager and ready and the guys weren’t interested. It was the game they liked. And according to the transcript he wasn’t a brute. He didn’t want to get her pregnant. This is why the sodomy.
    Rape, sexual penetration, love, lust are not just one thing each. They are far more complex. There is rape and then there is rape. Whoopi’s comment could have been made that way instead of rape-rape, which is much more direct.
    And the mother (and maybe the girl) got paid well for this prostitution sort of act. She could have told her mother over the phone to come and get her. I have known any number of 7 and 8 year olds that could have handled themselves in this situation. He was leaving her an out. He let her talk to her mother. My girlfriends and I used to handle the pedophiles in the movies on Saturday afternoons by laughing and ridiculing them right out of the theatre. People just want to punish him. They want their pound of flesh.
    Even Jaycee Dugard doesn’t want to punish the father of her girls, crying when he was arrested. Don’t forget that Jaycee appeared to have tamed this monster. Any woman who can do that has certain real feelings for the man. And how about the woman now. She has children and doesn’t want to drag all this up again. A defense lawyer will be smart enough to uncover what the mother was doing nowadays.

  322. abbeysbooks October 2, 2009 at 7:38 pm #

    I have not said it was not wrong. It was wrong! Can you read that?
    It was a seduction far more than a rape. I am sure the photos were lovely. Did you see Pretty Baby when it came out? Brooke Shields was 9 (?) or thereabouts when she made that movie. She was erotically beautiful and did a great acting job in it. She could have been a really good actress. Or how about Jodie Foster’s career?
    That’s what this girl may have wanted for herself and Polanski could have given it to her if he had decided to. I am not saying she wasn’t taken advantage of. She was. and so was he. They wanted future fame or money. They got money. It’s over. Get over it.

  323. asia October 2, 2009 at 7:46 pm #

    And another thing about Jaycee. Every single one of us is here because our female ancestors endured exactly the same thing as Jaycee. Not one of us escapes this fact. So perhaps that is why she survived. The collective unconscious.”
    Collective Unconcious??? now shes a Jungian to go with yr Freudian?
    wasnt ZZZZ threatening to rape Peakoil L here recently?
    now the 2 feminists…AnZ bond !!!!!
    over the rape of a 13 year old

  324. abbeysbooks October 2, 2009 at 7:52 pm #


    Yes. Marriage is about property. and about trying to make sure your genes inherit your stuff. Crazy.

    Go read English Law. There’s a lot about marriage and property rights and inheritance in it. There is secular marriage (civil) and sacred marriage (religious) and sometimes they are separate and sometimes not.
    BTW have you all done your prenups? Let’s hope for Edwards’ sake that he has one. I don’t care but I bet not.
    If marriage were not about property then why do people who have property or think they will have property buy competant legal advice on preparing prenups?
    I shall await your answer on this.

  325. abbeysbooks October 2, 2009 at 7:56 pm #

    And trust me she got that good job because she was a women’s study major. So much for your degree, 2 bucks and a subway ticket. Ah, but father knows best of course.
    She may not talk about Chomsky but once you have read him, loved him enough to try to get your father to read him, you will not forget what he has taught you.

  326. messianicdruid October 2, 2009 at 8:10 pm #

    “The federal government should be spending even more than it already is on roads and bridges and schools and parks and everything else we need.”
    Spending what??? Where did they get the money for the WPA? Where did they get the money for WW2? If CONgress would start doing it’s job and issue our own money instead of borrowing those “filthy rags” from the FED and then paying usury on it the rest of our lives we wouldn’t be in this mess. The people can produce wealth and trade among ourselves; that is not the problem. Parasitic worshippers of mammon are the problem.

  327. asoka October 2, 2009 at 8:13 pm #

    Tomcat16 said: “Asoka, don’t be a starry-eyed sucker all your life”
    Why not? It worked well the first 60 years. Life is a carnival full of lights and sounds, so beautiful! I have been faithful to that vision.
    Semper Fi!

  328. Jaego Scorzne October 2, 2009 at 8:14 pm #

    The Feminists have turned you into some kind of crazy Uncle Tom. You hate White Men but suck up White Women. And if you can land one it will be “enligtenment” or “body of the Buddha”.
    Now nobody should get mad at me for calling Asoka an Uncle Tom. He likes it; it makes him feel superior and virtuous. He’s a masochist. He actually told Dale the other day that Dale could kill him. You are a true Black White Victorian Lady. You should forget about getting a White Woman and just “take to bed” for twenty years. That’ll teach them. Being in bed for peace/revenge will be far more satisfying than any woman could be.

  329. asia October 2, 2009 at 8:24 pm #

    I cant find yr response to Ashoka about CONgress…but again ashok REALLY and i mean REALLY is a cornucopian…like most who live in ‘nice’ countries and have basic needs covered…somehow the ‘happy motoring’ JHk wrote of will go on. ‘they’ they techno geniuses will previal
    and why not such an attitude…b gates…richest guy on the planet said ‘ technology will fix the enviornmental crisis’
    well NO…technology is the cause
    Ashok today or yday here even said govt should be doing all theses things ‘we NEED’…….i emphasize ‘need’ as in …compared to what?

  330. zzzzzz October 2, 2009 at 8:24 pm #

    “Did you see Pretty Baby when it came out? Brooke Shields was 9 (?) or thereabouts when she made that movie. She was erotically beautiful and did a great acting job in it.”
    Listen you stupid cunt. I don’t give a flying fuck what kind of movies have been made showing young nubile nymphs. What Roman Polanski did is punishable by a lengthy jail sentence. PERIOD. Your attempts to downplay his actions and make him into a victim as well (“I am not saying she wasn’t taken advantage of. She was. and so was he.”) is one of the most pathetic things I have ever read. “Do it if it feels good” was discredited about a million years ago. Try (and I know this may be an impossibility) try and get a fucking clue, you insignificant speck of liberal vomit!

  331. asoka October 2, 2009 at 8:33 pm #

    JS said: “The Feminists have turned you into some kind of crazy Uncle Tom.”
    I am a feminist. I believe in the social, economic, and political equality of the sexes.
    In the 20th century I made a decision not to procreate, to have a vasectomy, out of concern for overpopulation, resource depletion, and environmental degradation. That was the explicit reason, motivated by a talk I heard on Earth Day.

  332. messianicdruid October 2, 2009 at 8:34 pm #

    He doesn’t seem to be encouraging the application of technology, unless you count the printing press {or just entering electrons into a computer screen}. I don’t know what you mean when you say you “can’t find” my response to him.
    Americans can make everything we need, we do not need the bansters so-called money. We need CONgress to do their job.

  333. Jaego Scorzne October 2, 2009 at 8:36 pm #

    That’s for the correction little one. How was it a Heinrich Himmler review? I was just “opening up” like you always say I should. It’s fascinating how selective you are. You jump all over me about my sister, but totally ignored the “factoid” about getting jumped by Negro Savages. Dale too: he wanted to know more but ignores it when it comes out because it doesn’t fit in with his programming.
    Anyway, sorry you and Abs fell for the PC packaging of Zone 9. Clever man, Jackson.

  334. asoka October 2, 2009 at 8:55 pm #

    Qshtik said: “I expected to see an immediate and vehement negative response coming in from all quarters”
    Qshtik, marriage is a subtle politics of domination. Fatherhood, motherhood, is a subtle politics.
    Look at mothers, just simply watch! — and you will feel they are trying to dominate their small children.
    Parents throw their aggression, their anger, onto their children and by this the children are already burdened. They will move in life carrying mountains from the very beginning, and they will never know that life is possible without carrying such loaded heads; and they will never know the freedom that comes with an unloaded being. Marriage leads to child abuse.
    Marriage not only leads to child abuse; marriage is not only legalized prostitution and legalized rape: it has been scientifically proven that marriage leads to divorce. 100% of divorced persons were known to have been victims of marriage. They were all married before divorce.

  335. asia October 2, 2009 at 9:00 pm #

    but again ashok REALLY and i mean REALLY is a cornucopian…like most who live in ‘nice’ countries and have basic needs covered…somehow the ‘happy motoring’ JHk wrote of will go on. ‘they’ they techno geniuses will previal
    and why not such an attitude…b gates…richest guy on the planet said ‘ technology will fix the enviornmental crisis’
    well NO…technology is the cause
    Ashok today or yday here even said govt should be doing all theses things ‘we NEED’…….i emphasize ‘need’ as in …compared to what?

  336. asoka October 2, 2009 at 9:12 pm #

    I don’t know if Asoka is a Cornucopian (I don’t know him well enough to say) but this I can say with certainty:
    Asoka is not bitter or angry.
    Asoka is not cynical or jaded.

  337. messianicdruid October 2, 2009 at 9:21 pm #

    “Suddenly Obama tries to say he is fighting the Federal Reserve Board
    It appears the Obama administration’s response to the bankruptcy of the Federal Reserve Board is to suddenly claim he is fighting against the Feds and that the right to make money should revert to the US Treasury Department. This is the sort of thing pathological liars always do. Here we have an administration and Congress that was bought and paid for (with a few exceptions) by the Feds suddenly saying they need to take control away from the Feds. That is the Feds saying they should take control away from the Feds. You are not fooling anybody you sick liars, you have lied so much maybe you even believe your own lies but nobody else does. The United States of America needs to put an interim government in place until you can have a real election with real freedom of the press and get yourselves a real president. No more “acting presidents” should be put in front of teleprompters in order to fool the people.”

  338. messianicdruid October 2, 2009 at 10:05 pm #

    “What I’m wondering about is how they are keeping the price of gold artificially low. Any ideas?”
    “All I asked was a very simple question, namely, how could one or two US banks be short 25% of the world production of silver (or any commodity) and that not constitute manipulation? In one full year, neither the CFTC nor anyone else has been able to come close to legitimately answer that question. That’s because there is no legitimate answer. Faced with having to answer a question to which there is no legitimate answer, do the next best thing – investigate.”
    “Be short silver at your own risk.”

  339. asoka October 3, 2009 at 12:25 am #

    The government does have the right to issue coins and regulate the value thereof.
    Our debt could be paid by issuing 100 coins and giving them a value of one trillion dollars each.

  340. asoka October 3, 2009 at 12:29 am #

    “The United States of America needs to put an interim government in place until you can have a real election”
    This is seditious and treasonous. The United States had an election and Obama won by a landslide. Obama has a mandate and a right to act on behalf of the majority that elected him… and he is doing a damn good job.

  341. Qshtik October 3, 2009 at 12:44 am #

    “William Safire had class. He never called anyone a slimy eel.”
    In the grand scheme of things you and I are nobodys. One nobody called another nobody a slimy eel on an obscure annonymous blog.
    Wm. Safire, noted authority on language, presidential speech writer and esteemed columnist for many decades at arguably the world’s greatest newspaper called the first lady of the United States, Hillary Clinton, a “congenital liar” in print and under his own name.

  342. asoka October 3, 2009 at 12:59 am #

    tomcat16 said: “More government spending is the absolute last thing we need now”
    Tomcat, spending money now means a stronger economy, both in the short run and in the long run. And a stronger economy means more revenues, which offset a large fraction of the upfront cost.

  343. asoka October 3, 2009 at 1:09 am #

    Qshtik said erroneously: “In the grand scheme of things you and I are nobodys.”
    Speak for yourself. I AM SOMEBODY! Ask my friend, Jesse Jackson. I have been a follower of Jesse Jackson since I met him, just after he left the Chicago Theological Seminary. I AM SOMEBODY!

  344. Jaego Scorzne October 3, 2009 at 1:18 am #

    Wrong dickhead. The Feminists believe in Female Supremacy-although they may deny-it’s very thinly veiled. For example, they would be outraged if you said men could do some things better than women. But they are happy to admit that women do many things better than men. And in my talks with my co-worker, it became clear that she felt that women were better at everything-even to the point of irrationality; secretly wishing/hoping that women were physically stronger and faster. It was really pathetic and I had no tolerance for it-which she felt. I was glad that she moved on. To be with a woman like that would be to embrace contempt. The whole thing is vile-all of modern Feminism. Susan B Anthony is alright-that was before Marxism destroyed people’s consciousness.
    Be careful of the Goddess-she might want the rest of it too! The worshipers of Cybele, Isis, and others too, used to castrate themselves in honor of the Goddess. And then run through the steets with the evidence. Indeed, these civilizations that worshiped the Goddess were slave holding and quite warlike. Another Feminist Myth bites the dust. The Chalice and the Blade.
    Anyway as the great scholar Ken Wilber said, you have to discriminate between Great Goddess and Great Mother. The Goddess wants your Ego. The Great Mother wants your blood or your jewels. After all she’s thirsty-hasn’t she blead? Doesn’t she need replenishment? This mythological/magical thinking lead to the killing of the mating couples to fertilize the fields. Or sometimes the ritual murder of just the male or corn king.
    Needless to say, the Great Goddess is a subtle archetype we are called too in meditation. The Woman Clothed with the Sun. Tara. Kuan Yin. The Great Mother is not evolutionary at all but rather a dark image in our collective unconscious. It is not to be indulged but understood and bypassed. People who adore the Feminine should go forward to the Great Goddess and leave the Great Mother in the past where she belongs. Of course the Feminist Movement is completely mixed up about this as they are about everything. And it can get confusing: the same Cult can have both aspects and both understandings. Ramakrishna worshiped Kali as great Goddess. The Thugees worshiped Kali as great Mother.
    The Chalice or the Blade? Both. And the Blade belongs in the Chalice. As CS Lewis says, virgin souls who find men vulgar too much, can abstain. But they will have to surrender to an even greater Masculine Force later on. In Christianity, all souls are feminine in relation to God. Men too. So the Feminists who say that Christianity has no polarity and respect for the Feminine are wrong. But Christianity expresses that polarity very differently than the old Pagan systems like Osiris, Isis, and their child Horus.

  345. abbeysbooks October 3, 2009 at 3:46 am #

    For you and zzz
    Mary was 14 when she had Jesus and Joseph was a widower and an older man. Maybe even older than Polanski was when she was 13.
    Let’s try Joseph for rape in absentia.
    And zzz name calling is so immature. And old cunt is sexist and ageist (if there is such a word) so let’s throw out any politeness and PC.

  346. suburbanempire October 3, 2009 at 3:48 am #

    The Republican reaction to Chicago not getting the Olympics in 2016…. a typical news day? Or a sad comment on the decline of American influence in the world….. http://www.suburbanempire.com
    Critical Essays about suburbia and the empire it has spawned…… brewed up fresh by folks in Vermont.

  347. abbeysbooks October 3, 2009 at 3:49 am #

    I think you are replying to me about things I did not say. Check again.

  348. Qshtik October 3, 2009 at 9:36 am #

    Jaego’s greatest concern is this despicable inter-breeding of blacks and whites we see going on around us. Keep it up, he warns, and in 50 to 100 years this is what our grand children will look like.

  349. Qshtik October 3, 2009 at 10:54 am #

    “Let’s try Joseph for rape in absentia.”
    Apparently you’ve forgotten … she’s the Virgin Mary. If anybody goes on trial for knocking her up it’s the Holy Ghost.
    Second thing … the other day you told me you didn’t like my nice nuanced putdown. You preferred Z’s direct no-spin Fucktard. Make up you mind Abs, you can’t have it both ways.

  350. Qshtik October 3, 2009 at 11:21 am #

    “Speak for yourself. I AM SOMEBODY!”
    You are essentially invisible and unknown to the rest of humanity and you have no more power than that tiny pebble tossed in the ocean that I often speak of. That’s what’s known as being a “nobody.” With a little luck maybe you’ll get your 15 mins of fame. If Jesse told you otherwise he is as full of shit as you are.

  351. Jaego Scorzne October 3, 2009 at 11:23 am #

    Je$$e Jack$on-what a peg to stake your identity on. Pal, you go from bad to worse everytime you open your mouth. And yes, everyone who got divorced was married-perhaps seeing someone else say it will make you see how silly a statement it is.
    Don’t get me wrong: Jackson is a great extortion artist-and by his own admission. He got in a fight with another Black Minister when the Minister said, how can I get some of these goodies. Jackson replied, don’t pick up apples that you didn’t shake out of the tree yourself. There you go-a shake down artist of Whites. He is shamless-beyond hope. But you ought to be ashamed of supporting such a man.

  352. Tomcat16 October 3, 2009 at 11:29 am #

    Theoretically, maybe that sounds plausible, but that’s part of the big lie big gov is trying to get you to believe in (sold through certain mouthpieces in CONgress and various media outlets). In practice, it’s a completely different story.
    A stronger economy is the result of a country producing things of value, not spending its way into a black hole and calling it “stimulus”.
    Simply put, you cannot spend your way to wealth with money you don’t have either as an individual or as a larger collective. Try it. Let us know how it works out for you.

  353. Jaego Scorzne October 3, 2009 at 11:30 am #

    Yes, it was a reply to Quiz Dik. Sorry. About everything. Not really. Not at all!

  354. Jaego Scorzne October 3, 2009 at 11:36 am #

    Yes, it was a reply to Quiz Dik. Sorry. About everything. Not really. Not at all!

  355. zzzzzz October 3, 2009 at 11:42 am #

    “And old cunt is sexist and ageist…”
    I didn’t call you an old cunt, I called you a stupid cunt. You must be feeling a little long in the tooth.
    Is cunt sexist? I don’t know. I use the term for repulsive men as well as women. If you take offense I’m terribly sorry. How about, “You stupid fucking prick.” Feel better?

  356. Qshtik October 3, 2009 at 11:48 am #

    “In the 20th century I made a decision not to procreate, to have a vasectomy, out of concern for overpopulation ……..blah blah blah”
    Slimy, I will be tucking away this post of yours till another day when I might have time to write at some length about the lunacy of foregoing your only shot at something even remotely close to immortality … the legacy of offspring.
    BTW, although a vasectomy does not involve the nuts (aka, the testicles), per se, it does require an incision or puncture of the scrotum. I, too, had the “Big V” but I waited till 6 months after the birth of our third child. And it had nothing to do with saving the earth from over population. (What delusions of grandeur you suffer from … the earth and the stars are unaware of your sacrifice on their behalf and frankly they couldn’t give two shits.)

  357. Qshtik October 3, 2009 at 12:14 pm #

    Abs, you’ve got to read more carefully. Here’s what I said:
    Then Abbey echoed back something actually true but insanely characterized it as “Crazy.” outrageous cubed!!
    I agree that marriage is a contract (as does the church) … etc etc. What I’m complaining about is that you find that to be “Crazy.”
    As man has evolved he’s found ways of protecting both men, women and their property through laws and institutions. Read The Ascent of Money by Nial Ferguson where he tells of the invention of insurance (essentially in its current form) among Scottish ministers specifically to protect surviving widows and children.

  358. Qshtik October 3, 2009 at 12:47 pm #

    “And trust me she got that good job because she was a women’s study major.”
    Sorry to once again have to disabuse you. She did not get that good job because she was a women’s study major. She could have had a degree in anything from undewater basket weaving to quantum mechanics. What got her the job was:
    1) having a resume with a demonstrated work ethic mostly in retail … starting with standing all day folding sweaters and jeans then moving slowly up the ranks.
    2) being tall, pretty, built and stylish. There are no “dogs” among the young women at Ralph Lauren (my daughter’s words). Too bad if you find that sexist Abs. She also tells me most of them come from well-to-do families and that she sometimes feels “ghetto” having come from the middle class.
    3) she was tight with another women at RL that she knew from a prior job and this person ran interference for her. That’s called “having connections.” That got her foot in the door, then 1) and 2) kicked in.

  359. Qshtik October 3, 2009 at 1:05 pm #

    “Sometimes you jump in with both barrels”
    Thanks for the kind words of confirmation Tom. BTW, I liked the way you started a mixed-metaphore (above). You could finish the thought with “and give it to them with both feet.” hahaha

  360. Qshtik October 3, 2009 at 3:42 pm #

    Jaego, I want to put my last two cents in on the topic of District 9. My remark about your “Heinrich Himmler” review was gratuitous. I have no idea how Himmler might have reviewed the movie. All I know is he is a reviled Third Reich figure so he is handy when one needs a code word to embody fascism.
    Nevertheless, you did what you always do which is to put a Jaego Scorzne spin on things that everyone else sees differently, clearly and un-spun. Abbey’s assessment (panel 29 at 11:28 PM) is pretty good.
    I’m no film critic but I saw D-9 as a rather simple and obvious morality play. The film’s makers wanted a story about the injustices and outrage of Apartheid and the universality of evil within man regardless of race, color and creed (actually they never got into the creed issue but maybe they will in a sequel).
    Hollywood has dramatized the vilification of every race or group that has suffered at the hands of another … blacks, italians, native indians, irish, chinese, etc. They ran out of races so they used the tried and true aliens-from-outer-space device. They arrive and suspend (somehow, but how is not relevant to this story) in the sky in the vicinity of Johannesburg South Africa (what a coincidence). The prawns are the new reviled blacks. The nigerians in the encampment are the new white overlords. The new sentient and advanced beings arrived from left field are treated as sub-human. By film’s end we begin to see that it is we who are, perhaps, sub-prawn.
    As the curtain closes we are informed that the prawns have been moved to District 10 and their population is growing rapidly. We are all set up for the sequel – District 10 – that should hit the screens in two years. The thematic possibilities of that film are endless.
    The efforts to herd, corral and control these strange other beings made me think of your ultimate solution for our own black prawns … wall them off in their own chunk of land with Atlanta (I think it was) as their capital. How naive is this scheme?

  361. Qshtik October 3, 2009 at 4:24 pm #

    Je$$e Jack$on-what a peg to stake your identity on.
    Good post Jaego. I like the way you signal right up front, with the dollar signs in JJ’s name, what the gist of your reply will be.
    For my own part, since the name Jesse Jackson has been brought up I want to return to the discussion with Abbey a few weeks ago concerning the teaching of Standard American English while simultaneously encouraging the retention of black vernacular as a second language.
    Imagine Obama running for president possessing all the skills and attributes that he currently has: good looks, nice family, great speaker, resonant voice, brains, morals, clean cut (am I allowed to say that?) etc, etc. BUT he speaks in Jesse Jackson ebonics. My question to Abs: can there be any doubt that Obama wouldn’t have gotten past the first primary.
    Any black who wants to advance in this society needs to abandon ebonics and get over the notion that this is “caving to the man.”

  362. asoka October 3, 2009 at 5:55 pm #

    Qshtik said: “the lunacy of foregoing your only shot at something even remotely close to immortality”
    Are you hoping for immortality? Good luck with that! I have never fantasized that immortality was a possibility, or even desirable. However…
    I am SOMEBODY!
    My actions do matter to Mother Earth!
    I have ample proof.

  363. asoka October 3, 2009 at 6:00 pm #

    Here’s an ebonics message for Qshtik:
    You don’ gots any idea what ya iz jivin’ about.
    You don’ know Jesse Jackson personally. what ‘chew trippin foo’

  364. asoka October 3, 2009 at 6:35 pm #

    So much for the effectiveness of military threats. Bush/Cheney threatened Iran for eight years with no results. They refused to talk to “terrorists”
    New boss is not like the old bosss.
    Barack Obama accomplished more than Bush-Cheney in one day, and got more concessions from Iran in 7 1/2 hours than the former administration got in 8 years of saber-rattling.

  365. asoka October 3, 2009 at 7:04 pm #

    So much for the effectiveness of military threats. Bush/Cheney threatened Iran for eight years with no results. They refused to talk to “terrorists”
    New boss is not like the old boss.
    Barack Obama accomplished more than Bush-Cheney in one day, and got more concessions from Iran in 7 1/2 hours than the former administration got in 8 years of saber-rattling.
    Billions, trillions, are wasted on the military, on the belief that organized violence is necesary.

  366. Jaego Scorzne October 3, 2009 at 9:50 pm #

    Well to give them their own state would at least get them out of our hair. You can’t seriously believe that they are an asset of any kind to our country. And it would let them sink or swim-on their own for once.
    Now your being so pro-Black is just your adaptation to the Liberal American way-correct?
    It’s basically the same as an agnostic Roman lighting a stick of incense and saying “Hail Ceasar”. It’s not only expected-it’s mandatory. Actually believing it is not. The Christians wouldn’t go through the motions and they got in big trouble.
    But you have relative anonymity here. And even if ultimately not, what do you care, you’re old and retired. Let it all hang out and say speak your truth-if you have any.
    Any luck finding data to support your contention that Blacks are our intellectual equals? The masters of psychometrics: Jenson, Rushton, Weyl(Jew) Murray, Eysenck, and Hernstein (Jew) say differently but what the hell, this is America goddamn it. Who are these eggheads to tell us that Blacks can’t be rocket scientists. After all, they have degrees, so that makes them smart, right? Just like the wizard gave the scare crow a degree and made him schmart.

  367. Qshtik October 3, 2009 at 9:52 pm #

    “Billions, trillions, are wasted on the military, on the belief that organized violence is necesary.”
    Knowing as I do that this is your strongly held conviction I’m wondering what possessed you to write the US Marine Corps’s cherished slogan Semper Fi at the bottom of a recent post?
    What next, Veni Vidi Vici?

  368. CaptSpaulding October 3, 2009 at 10:55 pm #

    Hi Qshtik. To me, you and a couple of others here have a pretty good grasp on things. Having been a door gunner on a slick in Nam, (1st Cav), I developed opinions about who I wanted flying with me. You don’t want people who are too emotional because they tend to fly apart at the wrong time. Many of the people here appear to allow their emotions to rule their thinking, or how they address other people. I don’t condemn them for that, I just wouldn’t fly with them. You can fly with me anytime. Regards.

  369. asoka October 3, 2009 at 10:57 pm #

    Qshtik asked: “what possessed you to write the US Marine Corps’s cherished slogan Semper Fi at the bottom of a recent post?”
    If you had actually read the post, something Safire would have done before writing, you would have seen the context, including the word “faithful” … making “Semper Fi” a perfectly logical thing to say. Fi stands for Fidelis, which is faithful in Latin.

  370. Qshtik October 3, 2009 at 11:52 pm #

    One reason I call you the slimy eel is your annoying habit of playing dumb.
    You know full well that I read your post and you know that I know what Semper Fi means and that it is a nice sentiment that fits well with the words that preceded it in your post. The point is, why would you choose to use words that are so thouroughly identified with a military organization and have been for more than a century? It seems as ridiculous to me as it would to see Jaego wearing a gold chain around his neck with a Star of David dangling from it … and when asked about it he says “I just thought it was a very cool looking piece of jewelry.” It just doesn’t compute.
    Generally a committed pacifist like yourself would be more sensitive to the symbolism.
    No need to reply … I’m just making an observation.

  371. asoka October 4, 2009 at 12:06 am #

    Many in the 1st Cav subscribed to the “Domino Theory” and believed that the U.S. involvement in Vietnam was right.
    But the underlying assumptions were bad. The “Vietnamese conflict” (no war was formally declared) was fundamentally wrong.
    The service men and women who went to Vietnam did not do the right thing by going. And the Domino theory was a lie, and the USA lost the war anyway.
    A waste of billions upon billions of dollars, millions of lives, all because of the belief that military might is effective, when Vietnam proved that it is not effective.
    Some have come to realize their role in Vietnam was wrong:
    “On August 19, 2009, former Army Lt. William Calley spoke to a Kiwanis Club meeting in Greater Columbus, Georgia, and for the first time publicly admitted his regret for his role in the My Lai massacre. “There is not a day that goes by, ” he said, “when I do not feel remorse for what happened that day in My Lai. I feel remorse for the Vietnamese who were killed, for their families, for the American soldiers involved and their families. I am very sorry.”

  372. asoka October 4, 2009 at 12:21 am #

    Recommended reading (especially for the brothas):
    Cornel West’s new book:

  373. Qshtik October 4, 2009 at 12:22 am #

    One reason I call you the slimy eel is your annoying habit of playing dumb.
    You know full well that I read your post and you know that I know what Semper Fi means and that it is a nice sentiment that fits well with the words that preceded it in your post. The point is, why would you choose to use words that are so thouroughly identified with a military organization and have been for more than a century? It seems as ridiculous to me as it would to see Jaego wearing a gold chain around his neck with a Star of David dangling from it … and when asked about it he says “I just thought it was a very cool looking piece of jewelry.” It just doesn’t compute.
    Generally a committed pacifist like yourself would be more sensitive to the symbolism.
    No need to reply … I’m just making an observation.

  374. Qshtik October 4, 2009 at 12:28 am #

    Thanks Cap, I appreciate that.

  375. Qshtik October 4, 2009 at 1:16 am #

    “Barack Obama accomplished more than Bush-Cheney in one day, and got more concessions”
    There’s an old expression that applies to this report of yours. It’s called “counting your chickens before they hatch.”

  376. asoka October 4, 2009 at 1:28 am #

    Qshtik said: “One reason I call you the slimy eel is your annoying habit of playing dumb.”
    I took the time to explain exactly the relationship between the word faithful and the Latin word Fi, by explaining the meaning of the word Fi.
    I could not believe you had read the post and then were asking me why I used Semper Fi, when it was perfectly obvious.
    Just because the Marine Corps has used that expression for a long while does not prohibit anyone else from using it.
    Just like when I am happy I can say I am feeling gay. Just because others have appropriated the word gay doesn’t prohibit me from using the word in its original meaning.

  377. Jaego Scorzne October 4, 2009 at 1:38 am #

    Just yesterday you were content to be nobody-just flowing with the Tao. Today you’re a name dropping egomaniac. Dude, make up your mind which path you want to walk. You can’t walk two paths that are going opposite directions.
    If a man is accomplished, he has the right to boast just as I have a right to walk away if he gets too bombastic. But someone who has no accomplishments but name drops to get attention, is truly the most pathetic of men. I hope that doesn’t describe you-cuz you are name dropping. I hope for your sake you have something else to feel proud about besides knowing Jesse Jackson.

  378. asoka October 4, 2009 at 1:42 am #

    “don’t count your chickens before they hatch”
    Obama got a significant victory already… which is more than Bush-Cheney got. I’m counting that victory.
    By getting Iran to open up its secret uranium-enrichment facility in Qom, Obama demonstrated that diplomacy… talking… is more effective than eight years of Bush’s military threats (and name calling) against Iran. I’m counting that victory because they didn’t agree to that with a belligerent Bush.
    Bush never got the Iranians to agree to inspections. Obama did.
    I am talking about what has already been gained. Those eggs have hatched and those chickens can be counted.

  379. asoka October 4, 2009 at 1:59 am #

    You are upset by name dropping? Here is what you said yesterday:
    “Anyway as the great scholar Ken Wilber said…”
    and then you went on to misrepresent Wilber’s thought, which as you must know has gone through at least five stages and you are referring to the Earth Goddess/Earth Mother writings from an early stage (probably from ATMAN PROJECT or from UP FROM EDEN)
    In a later work, EYE OF SPIRIT, Wilber identified at least a dozen major schools of feminism (liberal, socialist, spiritual, eco, womanist, radical, anarchist, lesbian, Marxist, cultural, constructive, power).
    All feminists agree that women are disadvantaged, subordinated, or oppressed, which is why my definition of feminism as wanting social, economic, and political equality between the sexes is accurate. Right now there is no equality.
    Can you cite a definition of feminism from a credible source which supports your contention that feminism’s aim is “female supremacy”?
    Feel free to drop names, but an authoritative source for your feminism=female supremacy would be appreciated.
    And Jesse is not my only inspiration. I also have been influenced by men like Dick Gregory, Andrew Young, Julian Bond, Cornel West, and a host of other good men, and by women like Barbara Jordan, Shirley Chisholm, Cynthia McKinney, Sheila Jackson-Lee, and a whole host of other good women.

  380. Qshtik October 4, 2009 at 9:30 am #

    I also have been influenced by …… women like Barbara Jordan, Shirley Chisholm, Cynthia McKinney, Sheila Jackson-Lee, …..
    and Joanne Chesimard.

  381. Qshtik October 4, 2009 at 11:00 am #

    “You can’t walk two paths that are going opposite directions.”
    Jaego, he not only can, but regularly does, go in two different directions at the same time. I have been harping on this for months. He has admitted, even reveled in, the fact that he would not allow himself to be trapped by “a foolish consistency that is the hobgoblin of small minds.”
    Thankfully, readers accustomed to statements from the Slimy eel automatically discount them.
    When I address Slimy I have no illusions about winning a convert to a more sensible way of thinking. I write for others to hear. (The same is true of my correspondence with you and Abbey but your saving grace is consistency.)

  382. Rose October 4, 2009 at 11:26 am #

    JHK – I just read the interview with you in the Sun Magazine, which was good.
    I have one suggestion. Twice you used the phrase “standard of living”. I know that you know what SOL means. I think that most people do not have a precise definition, more like a fuzzy one, definitely involving “quality of life”. This is a place where thinking goes off track.
    I suggest using “rate of consumption” instead of SOL.

  383. Jaego Scorzne October 4, 2009 at 12:30 pm #

    As always, you are all over the place. This time you are not so much trying to confuse (altho you do that too I think), but are just confused.
    First off, name dropping is when you say you know someone, not when you cite someone. Duh.
    And I know about the complexity of Wilber’s thought-I’ve followed him through the years right u to the Eye of Spirit. And yes, he mentions the different schools of Feminist Thought and how they are basically all limited by being quadrant specific-just like Western Thought in general. That neither He nor I hold against them. But what he decries, is how an insidious angry egotism and narcicism have gravely marred this movement. As if one is superior simply be virtue of being female. More spiritual. More sensisitive. Etc.
    Now he admits there is a such a thing as woman’s intuiton. But he says it’s an emotionally tinged cognition-not spiritual. It helps in things like learning a language or human relationships. Very valuable stuff to be sure-but not spritual per se. And not automatically good either-moral use of any ability is a separate issue. Women often use their superior verbal and emotional gifts to manipulate men. Not me mind you-I’m the equal of most women in those. But I had to suffer until I realized I was being manipulated. That I had to learn.
    But anyway, because of these gifts, most women just consider themselves utterly superior to men-which Wilber has always lambasted. I love him for this and you are either not a serious student or you are blanking it out-he has talked about this alot. Or as Quiz Dic says, he are lying when you say you don’t know this.
    My efforts at scholarship on this blog have not been particularly appreciated. Partly my own fault because I don’t make it easy and leave links but just suggest books. Anyway, I do have many of his books and if you are serious, I could find some references for you to run down if you also have access to his books.
    I lost interest in him to some extent when I became a White Nationalist. All those years of studying the Eastern Stuff, I had pretty much ignored politics until middle middle age. I suddenly became amazed at how influential Wilber was with so many of the wrong people. In his journals, he refered to “Bill and Hillary”-I totally believe it. He was one of the architects of the New Esotericism for the Liberal Elite. So he could never mention race and hope to keep his growing influence. So he never did-a profound flaw in his sytem. In the color coded system for the different levels of consciousness-developed partly by Clare Graves if I remember correctly, all of Africa is at the lowest level of just totemism and basic survival needs. So this is a tacit admission of the Truth at least. Of course since the role of genetics in IQ is never mentioned, all his students assume that no insurmountable obstacle exists towards helping Africa. But one does-since genetics accounts for over 50 percent of a person’s IQ. Africa can never get past poverty-the people just aren’t smart enough. Or moral enough-since the level of morality correlates roughly with IQ. You can be smart and not be good (mad scientist, Dick Cheney type), but you can’t be good and not be smart. So in other words, intelligence is necessary but not sufficient.
    So Ken Wilber, who may well know better, left out an immensely important aspect. Without that, influential people who are or will become policy makers, will spend billons of dollars trying to help a situation that can’t be helped. And countless young idealistic people will waste their time in Africa. I much prefer Booker T Washington’s: the Black Man has a date with Destiny. His time will come, until then he must bide. Contrast that with “Our Day Will Come” a song of secret Black Subversion.
    I heard Ken Wilber is dying of Cancer. His book about his wife’s death was very moving-from Cancer as well.
    What? No White influences? You racist! I’m not kidding.

  384. Qshtik October 4, 2009 at 1:18 pm #

    Re: SOL
    I always thought SOL meant “shit outta luck.”

  385. dale October 4, 2009 at 1:58 pm #

    As I recall, in the police report of the Polanski rape, the girl was repeated saying “No, please, stop” etc., while he was anally raping her. That is not Lolita like behavior.
    As for Polanski being a victim because the girl was cute, nubile, pimped by her mother etc. I have no patience with that either. As a young man I was faced with this type of behavior and I didn’t fall for it because I knew it was wrong, and so did Polanski.
    Frankly, I just don’t get how any woman can be an apologist for this kind of thing, it’s just wrong.
    As for the usual screaching rants from Parrot Boy, as usual, even when he is right he is wrong. Screaming insults like “c—” at woman for any reason is the behavior of a boorish coward. Time to grow up a little bit.

  386. asoka October 4, 2009 at 2:00 pm #

    Qshtik said: “Jaego, he not only can, but regularly does, go in two different directions at the same time.”
    Q, did St. Joseph’s not teach you about the Doctrine of Adequatio? Did you not read Saint Buenaventura?
    I respect your epistemology which appears to be Aristotelian: “a thing cannot be both A and not-A at the same time”
    I am an epistemological pluralist. Or as Whitman says: “I am large. I contain multitudes”
    Reason and rational thinking are but one way of knowing.

  387. asoka October 4, 2009 at 2:05 pm #

    JS said: “if you are serious, I could find some references for you”
    I am serious. All I asked for is one citation that indicates Wilber believes feminism=female supremacy.
    And since you mentioned it, where did you hear that Wilber is dying of cancer?
    No black man gots to “bide his time”…
    I take it White Nationalists tend to be reactionary in their politics… so Wilber had to be rejected.

  388. asoka October 4, 2009 at 2:10 pm #

    JS said: “if you are serious, I could find some references for you”
    I am serious. All I asked for is one citation that indicates Wilber believes feminism=female supremacy.
    And since you mentioned it, where did you hear that Wilber is dying of cancer?
    No black man gots to “bide his time”…
    I take it White Nationalists tend to be reactionary in their politics… so Wilber had to be rejected.

  389. asia October 4, 2009 at 5:21 pm #

    her polanski posts were COMPOST!!
    and Abb…Brookes mom tried unsuccessfully to get to get Brookes kiddie porn photos supressed but flynt or someone printed them.
    polanski and BS mom have a few things in common

  390. asia October 4, 2009 at 5:40 pm #

    ‘ “Our Day Will Come” a song of secret Black Subversion.’
    what are the lyrics and how are they subversive?

  391. asia October 4, 2009 at 6:00 pm #

    to illustrate subversive…..i found this
    which isnt to say other countries ‘governments’ dont do this to the USA…dump killers and other criminals on USA
    5 held in scheme to block deportations
    Norair Ghalumian and four others are accused of obtaining and selling letters from the consulate that allowed immigrants convicted of murder, robbery and other crimes to avoid deportation.
    By Alex, Ra Zavis, and Anna Gorman
    July 29, 2009 in print edition A-4
    Five people, including a former Armenian consul, have been arrested in alleged schemes to block the deportation of illegal immigrants convicted of murder and other serious crimes, federal immigration officials announced Tuesday.
    The defendants allegedly obtained letters from the Armenian Consulate in Los Angeles and then sold them – for as much as $35,000 each – to at least two dozen convicted criminals facing deportation, officials said. The letters, which were sent to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said the Armenian government could not verify that the immigrants were citizens and therefore could not let them back into the country.
    Unable to deport the immigrants, U.S. officials were forced to release them. By law, the immigration agency cannot keep criminals in detention for more than six months beyond their prison sentences if deportation is unlikely.
    The immigrants who received the “letters of refusal” had been convicted of murder, attempted murder, robbery and other crimes, officials said.
    “It’s a great scheme,” said Jennifer Silliman, deputy special agent in charge of the immigration agency’s Los Angeles office. “You have got these career criminals, many of whom are violent, circumventing the system and essentially buying themselves a place in the United States.”
    Grigor Hovhannissian, Armenia’s consul general in Los Angeles, said he and others within the Armenian government were committed to cooperating with U.S. authorities in the ongoing investigation.
    “It is in our vital interest to sort this out,” he said. “It does tremendous harm to the prestige of our country.”
    Hovhannissian said his predecessor, Norair Ghalumian, had not been part of the government for several years but allegedly was handling consular duties on his own.
    “Outside of his professional duties, he may have been offering services that were totally illegal,” he said.
    Ghalumian, 52, was consul from 1999 to 2003, according to U.S. officials. The other defendants included Hakop Hovanesyan, 54, a former employee of the consulate; Margarita Mkrtchyan, 41, a Beverly Hills attorney; Oganes Nardos, 36, a substance abuse counselor; and Elvis Madatyan, 47, who owns an auto body business and a bakery.
    All five appeared in court Tuesday afternoon to face federal charges of obstructing immigration proceedings. Four were ordered released on bonds ranging from $50,000 to $200,000 and told to return to court Aug. 17 for a preliminary hearing. Nardos’ detention hearing was continued until Aug. 7 because of questions about whether he entered the country fraudulently. If convicted, each could be sentenced to five years in federal prison.
    “These defendants endangered the safety and security of United States residents,” U.S. Atty. Thomas P. O’Brien said in a statement.
    The defendants’ family members, gathered at the courthouse in Los Angeles, expressed disbelief about the charges.
    “I am shocked,” said Ghalumian’s wife, Katarine Simonian. “A lot of people know him as a very honest person.”
    The immigration agency began its investigation about two years ago and used undercover agents to contact the defendants and obtain the illicit letters. All five people were allegedly carrying out the same scheme but were not part of a larger criminal organization, officials said.
    Immigration authorities executed search warrants at various locations, including Mkrtchyan’s Glendale residence, Hovanesyan’s travel agency and Nardos’ residence, and left with refusal letters and official stationery from the consulate. Immigration officials have identified some of those who received the letters and said they could face federal criminal charges.
    Although the letters in this case were allegedly obtained fraudulently, there are thousands of immigrants across the country with legitimate letters of refusal. They have served time for crimes and been ordered deported but are still here because the U.S. cannot get passports or visas for them. Among them are Armenians born in the former Soviet Union, Palestinians born in refugee camps and Africans from countries whose international borders have shifted.
    thats subversive…a song doesnt scare me

  392. abbeysbooks October 4, 2009 at 7:08 pm #

    Dale I am only trying to ask that people consider Polanski’s act within the context of the circumstances in which it occurred, the sexual culture in which it occurred and the time at which it occurred.
    Young women grew up in the 50’s saying no when they meant yes. If you didn’t then you were considered loose. The guy was supposed to seduce you into it; something you wanted to do anyway. If you said, yes, let’s go, then the game was over and the game was the important thing.
    This happened 30 years ago. I think most of you were not of age at that time. If you were, you were probably not very active in the counter culture. I may be wrong on this.
    Hasn’t anyone seen Almost Famous? There are plenty of underage girls and boys and men and women in that film. And the film Thirteen done by a little older girl about when she was 13 will open your eyes about 13 year old girls. Underage girls having sex was not a big deal then. And not now. It is a big deal now. With certain adults.
    This is not to say it wasn’t wrong. That these girls had mothers who thought it was OK and hers obviously did considering the circumstance she was in with Polanski. I mean he was a very attractive, famous, accomplished well known man at that time. Not the kind of man you let your 13 year old daughter go to his house alone with. The girl was by her own testimony sexually experienced. Her photos indicate this. They are beautiful and alluring in an erotic way. Of course she turned him on, and the expectation by the mother and daughter was that this was not going to be an innocent photo session. She even says so in her testimony. And saying she had two sexual experiences before, well, …..who really knows. The 13 year olds I knew were really accomplished. I was living in a very progressive area of Philadelphia Powelton Village. They were all around me these lovely girls. Most of the men were not interested in women, they were interested in teen age girls. My niece was one of them. She got with older guys who were not attractive to women, got a little more than she bargained for, but not much. She even married one and had a son with him. This could have happened to this girl. She was lovely. Then.
    She has indicated she doesn’t want to pursue this. She doesn’t claim she has experienced terrible effects from it. As far as anal sex is concerned, sodomy is quite common but reeks of ickiness for an older generation. I think this is a big issue with people. He took the dirt road with her. And from her testimony it’s also clear that he did it so as to be sure she wouldn’t get pregnant. He has paid a price so we are down to what is justice and what is prison for. What is to be accomplished by punishing him now. There are far worse criminals that no one is seriously suggesting be punished. Men who have destroyed women and little girls in the middle east. Men who have ruined this economy and have caused suffering that is unimaginable and will continue for years and years. Where is your outrage about them.
    Do I hear any yelling? I’m listening. Hello out there? Anybody home?

  393. asoka October 4, 2009 at 7:35 pm #

    asia said; “which isnt to say other countries ‘governments’ dont do this to the USA…dump killers and other criminals on USA”
    Colombia’s President Uribe regularly dumped drug kingpins and paramilitary murderers on the USA, especially when they were about to testify to Uribe’s complicity in their crimes.

  394. messianicdruid October 4, 2009 at 10:08 pm #

    “Where is your outrage about them. Do I hear any yelling? I’m listening. Hello out there? Anybody home?”
    You do not want to hear our outrage. You don’t accept that it exists, or that it even has a right to exist. Every time outrage {moral indignation} is expressed about wickedness that is paraded before us with impunity, people like yourself poo poo at it and apply the labels {fundies, kooks, wingnuts, bible-thumpers, cultists, racists, knuckledraggers, mouth-breathers, plebs, sheeple, pew-warmers, holy-rollers, snake-handlers, hypocrites, tea-baggers, commoners, ad infinitum – ad nauseum} you have been supplied by your training and the media, so you can ignore and marginalize the warnings of us “religious” cassandras, {even} as it all comes true right before our eyes.
    “Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the hearts of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.”
    Speedy justice for {even awareness of} sin {1John 3:4} has been swapped for a slow agonizing death for western civilization. “Fully set” means something like: can’t admit that what is, is.

  395. Qshtik October 4, 2009 at 11:29 pm #

    Q, did St. Joseph’s not teach you about the Doctrine of Adequatio? Did you not read Saint Buenaventura?
    Teach us about it!? You bet your sweet ass they did. And, in fact, we were required to commit the entire Doctrine and all the writings of Saint B to memory and regurgitate it back in the original Latin. But as I told Father Whats Is Name in my blue book during the final “I think it’s all a pile of religium bovinus crapola.”

  396. Jaego Scorzne October 4, 2009 at 11:32 pm #

    As Humbert Humbert said, “Gentlwomen (in this case men) of the jury, she wasn’t even a virgin.” Much as I like seeing Abbey take her medicine, I have to give her a bit on this one. Some things are always wrong everywhere and at all times. And some things are much more relative. That doesn’t mean our culture is wrong-we may have gone beyond some other ones. But that doesn’t make those other ones totally wrong either.
    King David used to get bed warmers when he was an old man-teenagers. So did Gandhi-he was testing himself for self control and also, as with King David, it was an occult technique of health. You get some of the chi of the young person by being in close proximity. After years of yoga, meditation, and 60’s type things, I have the sensitivity to feel the process. I don’t need it and don’t look for it, but I know it’s there. Perhaps the legends of the vampires have some basis in reality…Gandhi’s advisors told him to stop-it was starting to leak out and would certainly have freaked out the Western supporters.
    Teenagers in other cultures including our own of yester year, were adults. The whole young adult culture, which now lasts into middle age, is a luxury and mostly a corruption. It will not last much longer. Grown men used to marry teenagers all the time-13 might have been a bit young, but not much. Do I advocate going back to this? Not at all. There is a higher way for girls and boys than getting involved in sex so early. But you see there our culture gives mixed messages. It says don’t do it but tempts them constantly. The best way for serious girls is probably all girl schools. And maybe for boys too. Sex takes the mind completely away from study. So for girls with potential, it’s best to shield them if possible. For girls who don’t have potential-what’s the point? Once they learn to read, write, and figure, there’s no point in them going to college and all that. If they are dreaming about boys constantly and want a family, they might as well get at it even if they are still teenagers. This one size fits all approach to life is crazy. And Feminism buys in-exaggerating every girls potential. Nonsense. Most people, boys or girls, are not intellectuals or artists and are not college material.
    Our culture is comfortable with single unwed mothers-which it shouldn’t be. Yet makes a big deal about how old the man is? And of course, the craziness about that Mormon Group-scandalized about young girls getting pregnant because they were White and Traditionalists. They have no problem whatsoever with regular high school girls getting pregnant. They provide child care and welfare. If you subsidize something, you support it. End of story.
    As far as teenage prostitution and moms pimping their daughters-it’s wrong and I think everyone is right about that. Maybe Abbey is confusing this specific situation with some of the greater relativities that I allude to.

  397. Jaego Scorzne October 4, 2009 at 11:42 pm #

    Ok you are changing your question. First it was name one school of Feminism that is Female Supremacist. Now it’s cite one place Wilber says that Feminism=Female Supremacy. Now Wilber never says that. Again he loves the potential of Feminism. But what he does say is that the reality of Feminism is marred by misandry. I will find a few quotations for you, but not tonite.
    Feminism itself seldom admits its bias, but it is so very often right below the surface. The lesbian separatists do admit their hatred of the masculine of course.

  398. Qshtik October 5, 2009 at 12:11 am #

    The intellectual one-upsmanship that goes on here is something to behold.
    Let’s see … what single word best captures my contempt … bullshit? horsehit? or balderdash?

  399. asoka October 5, 2009 at 1:12 am #

    Qshtik said: “The intellectual one-upsmanship that goes on here is something to behold. Let’s see … what single word best captures my contempt … bullshit? horsehit? or balderdash?”
    How thoroughly post-modern of you!
    By the way, may God bless your soul and forgive you for what you wrote in your bluebook. God will not be mocked!

  400. Jaego Scorzne October 5, 2009 at 1:27 am #

    This world is very dark…Satan is Rex Mundi, King of this World. Conspiracies exist where any three are gathered-two against one. Two whisper about the other, plot, take sides, etc. Conspiracy isn’t far away-it’s the very nature of things here. You have participated, so have I, sho has everyone. Remember that story by Hawthorn, “The Minister’s Black Veil”-the Veil symbolized secret sin. And he never took it off for the rest of his life. He bore the secret sins of his whole congregation by this symbolic act-in imitation of Christ’s actual sacrafice.
    As for “Our Day Will Come”-I admit I am less sure. I heard it as a boy and I was stuck by something, some mysterious power it had. And I was reminded the other day when some one brought it up on American Renaissance (amren.com), a moderate White Nationalist Site. You and Quiz Dic might enjoy it-you to find kindred spirits and sharpen your understanding about race; and Quiz Dic as a place to argue against conservatives. The first two lines go “Our day will come, and we’ll have everything.” Innocuous enough, but worded a little strangely for a love song. It’s kind of thin, but the other person thought the same. I admit it’s pretty much intuition until I know more. I can’t remember the rest of the lyrics.

  401. asoka October 5, 2009 at 1:59 am #

    JS said: “The first two lines go “Our day will come, and we’ll have everything.” Innocuous enough, but worded a little strangely for a love song.”
    You done found us out, Massa. That dere song iz our anthem, secretly sung at Black Panther rallies.
    And now we’s got us uh prezident, we’s gon’ gots everthing, jus’ ya wait ‘n see, Massa.
    We bidin’ our tyme… but our day gon’ come right soon now, ya’ hear? don’t make me shank ya!

  402. suburbanempire October 5, 2009 at 3:33 am #

    Califoreclosure? The Golden State downgrades to tin
    Sassy, and critical of suburbia and the empire it has spawned……

  403. suburbanempire October 5, 2009 at 3:34 am #

    Califoreclosure? The Golden State downgrades to tin
    Sassy, and critical of suburbia and the empire it has spawned……

  404. Qshtik October 5, 2009 at 11:00 am #

    Hey Sub, I read some of your link describing Calif and I burst right out in laughter at the words “plastic tits.”

  405. Jaego Scorzne October 5, 2009 at 1:05 pm #

    You best be out of this town by nightfall, boy. Or I aint gonna be responsible for what happens to ye. Ye been warned…
    Indeed the Leopard cannot change his spots and the Eithopian not his character.


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