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The Cookie Crumbles

     A lot can happen in two weeks, which is what remains before the glorious orgy of gifts, sugar plums, and roast goose. Imagine what a global bank run would do for that ole holiday spirit – not to mention the GDPs of the world. Oh, weeping celestial choirs! I suppose we generally assume that God Almighty himself would move heaven and Earth to prevent such a dire convergence of Christmas and a banking collapse, but perhaps the Old Diety is asleep at the switch like the US Department of Justice, the SEC, and a whole alphabet load of other watchful regulators in this, our only known universe.
     Reality is a harsh mistress. She insists that you pay attention and then, having done so, take care of business. Politics, on the other hand, is more like stage magic. The man in the tuxedo is always trying to divert your attention. The world has run out of money, that is credible money of the type that represents real wealth, and yet is up to its ears in paper representations of putative wealth-like stuff: mortgages, credit default swaps, Gold ETFs, synthetic CDOs, naked shorts, bonds of all sorts. And now, alas, at Christmas time, the world has gotten a margin call and needs to fork over a whole lot of collateral in order to demonstrate that the global system of financial obligations is legit. Only the collateral turns out to be all this dubious paper, really just a bouquet of promises to pay in distant future Tuesdays for trillions of hamburgers today.
     Nobody who observed the proceedings in last week’s European Union talks came away from that spectacle feeling reassured. Brussels is like a ventriloquist’s dummy sitting on Germany’s knee. Germany cannot just step up and act like the Boss of Europe. Too many bad memories of an earlier instance, when a gang of maniacs wearing uniforms studded with grinning totenkopf insignia turned the whole region into a charnel house. So, Germany has to pretend to speak through Brussels. The message was: listen up all y’all nations of the Eurozone!  Prepare to live on a whole lot less than you’re used to! Do not exceed your borrowing and spending! Or else!
     Yes, the lingering question: or else…what?
     It is safe to say that nobody believed this mummery. Anyway, Great Britain (a.k.a. Old Blighty) simply checked out. The sceptered isle is now Europe’s dog-house. They stayed out of the Euro currency for a reason: so that their equivalent of Wall Street, the City of London, could short the shit out of it when the time came, a strategy that begins to look absolutely brilliant – except considering what Old Blighty is otherwise left with as an economy: Scotch whiskey, mints, and a whole lot of Hallel grocery shops, with the Royals as window dressing. (I’d sooner invest in Argentina, with its amber waves of grain.)
     The old animosities are leaking out of Pandora’s History Box. Stolid Angela Merkel is stepping on Nikolas Sarkozy’s size 14 ½  neck – how long before he starts to buck and holler? The astrologasters cannot come up with any math that shows Italy can meet its forthcoming debt payments. But they are only the leaders of a deadbeat posse that includes virtually everybody else in EuroClub, except perhaps Holland, Germany, and Finland. Could they really start beating up on each other with armies again? It would appear unthinkable. But that is exactly why the First World War destroyed the morale of Western Civ in 1914, too, after the Long Peace that followed the Napoleonic Wars. You’re standing there on a lovely street corner in Verdun and the unthinkable whaps you upside the head. So much for the quality of advanced thinking in the Modern Age. Maybe its Poland’s turns to rule the world?
     In any case, the storyline is as much about the banks as the nations they are in. The banks are at the point where they can conduct business with each other only by pretending that exchanges of value are taking place. Nobody sees any lines of depositors forming on the sidewalks outside their branch offices, but then again nobody can see the digital zeros and ones streaming through the fiber-optic cable, either, and that’s certainly where the action is. For the moment that action has a direct line into the perceived greater safety of Wall Street. Oh, yeah, follow Jim Cramer’s advice and buy buy buy. Invest in a nation of lawless slobs with a two-second attention span oscillating between Nascar and the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills.
     Did you catch President Obama on 60 Minutes last night. Charming fellow. Sincere and even purposeful, too. But displaying a big patch of cluelessness, like virtually everybody else in a position of authority in this benighted land. The President intimates that we will surely return to the turbo economy of a fast-receding yore. He is missing something big there. We are not going back to that. The fiesta is over. And his job is not to try to go back there, because it is impossible. His job was to lead an epochal re-set of the economy to a very different disposition of things, smaller, finer, more local. It is so far outside the box he’s in that light-years cannot even begin to describe the distances involved. And I completely dismiss his claim that the reason no prosecution of Wall Street misconduct happened was because, however odious their schemes and scams were, they were technically legal.
     Anyway, I’m already looking forward to the nominating conventions of next summer, when angry mobs of the swindled and desperate descend on Charlotte and Tampa like ravaging locusts. Won’t that be a wake up call!
     And now to bake all my Christmas Cookies.

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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

631 Responses to “The Cookie Crumbles” Subscribe

  1. Leibowitz Society December 12, 2011 at 9:45 am #

    Modern industrial civilization is failing, a fact which is increasingly clear for anyone who has their eyes open. Most people are still living with their heads in the sand, though. For the rest of us, now is the time to prepare and get ready for the inevitable.
    Visit the Leibowitz Society at http://leibowitzsociety.blogspot.com/2011/12/complexities.html for discussion and information related to our coming collapse.

  2. Neon Vincent December 12, 2011 at 9:55 am #

    “I’m already looking forward to the nominating conventions of next summer, when angry mobs of the swindled and desperate descend on Charlotte and Tampa like ravaging locusts. Won’t that be a wake up call!”
    The Occupy Movement should be thinking that far ahead. However, they’ll still be using nonviolent tactics. The police will provide the violence. Would you like some pepper spray with that?
    Over at Crazy Eddie’s Motie News, I’ve been taking a lighter tack this month while exploring the theme of gifts, but I’m still examining disasters. One of the posts reviewed “Ten American Dystopias” from io9. Unfortunately, none of James’s works made the cut, although there were enough post-collapse films and books on the list. I wonder if he’s considered attending science fiction conventions? Speaking of disasters, I’ve also looked at Newt Gingrich, Herman Cain, and asteroids striking the Earth. That would have been a great set up for a Karnak joke, wouldn’t it?
    http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/

  3. kulturcritic* December 12, 2011 at 9:55 am #

    Hubris is the key to our past and our future. Enjoy the new world that is coming, James.
    http://kulturcritic.wordpress.com/posts/an-incredible-journey-the-hubris-of-kepler-22-b/
    kulturcritic

  4. GAZ December 12, 2011 at 9:56 am #

    The “old Deity” is more enthralled with Tim Tebow now that “Dancing with the Stars ” is over.

  5. Hugh Culliton December 12, 2011 at 10:01 am #

    Well the Wal-mart here in Belleville, Ontario is now open 24/7 and it seems as if the good times are back, judging by the impressively full parking lot, at 3am no less. I think the poop is going to hit the fan this coming year in a very nasty way. Even dudes like me, with cushy, ‘safe’ jobs like high school teacher are going to have their world rocked soon. I don’t think many of my confreres are emotionally prepared for the profound changes coming. Makes me glad I put down my preserves this fall. Is it too early to get into the eggnog? See all you fellow doomers on the other side, peace!

  6. Elrond Hubbard December 12, 2011 at 10:01 am #

    Ilargi over at The Automatic Earth suggests that everyone should withdraw cash equal to whatever they were planning to spend on Xmas gifts and celebrations, just to make sure they have some on hand in case the banks freeze up. I just might.
    Happy holidays, everyone.

  7. Jimmy Drinkwater December 12, 2011 at 10:04 am #

    the

    job was to lead an epochal re-set of the economy to a very different disposition of things, smaller, finer, more local…..

    Beautiful, and that means laying off the cheap imported crap, looking for quality over quantity, supporting demand for domestically produced items even it means having to re-purpose things in the transition.
    http://alttransbikes.blogspot.com

  8. Newfie December 12, 2011 at 10:04 am #

    “I’m already looking forward to the nominating conventions of next summer, when angry mobs of the swindled and desperate descend on Charlotte and Tampa like ravaging locusts.”
    That would be a sight to behold but I’m wouldn’t bet on it. Everyone and their dog will likely continue believing in the fairy tale of never ending growth and the twin gods of Progress and Technology and will fail to realize what is happening, so complete is our self delusion. The mobs will probably vote in a Party in that will make matters worse. No one ever lost anything underestimating the intelligence of the American voter.

  9. ABSALOM December 12, 2011 at 10:06 am #

    “Anyway, I’m already looking forward to the nominating conventions of next summer, when angry mobs of the swindled and desperate descend on Charlotte and Tampa like ravaging locusts. Won’t that be a wake up call!”
    ==================================================
    JHK once again recognizes the poignancy of late shenanigans, although there’s not much new to say; folks who see these things unfolding have outlined them as clearly possible; thus, the only question worth asking: What will be the substance and scope of protests sure to come in 2012?
    Head cracking is sure to escalate.
    ABSALOM

  10. DeeJones December 12, 2011 at 10:07 am #

    What kind of cookies are you baking?
    🙂

  11. RyeBeachBum December 12, 2011 at 10:08 am #

    I can hear Angela Merkel now in her germanic accent telling the rest of the EuroZOne
    “Fur Yew Zee party’s ova, ya.”

  12. mow December 12, 2011 at 10:10 am #

    LOL @ the popeye reference

  13. conchscooter December 12, 2011 at 10:11 am #

    Not Poland! Please not Poland. How about we make Monaco leader of the world with casinos, fairy princesses, toy soldiers and legal tax evasion as the new World Order?

  14. newworld December 12, 2011 at 10:14 am #

    Good call on Argentina, Britain is a synthesis of rule between Bankster elite and Campus Kid “Diversity” utopian non-sense. Not a stretch to believe one day that the elite get on their jets and follow their digital money leaving the chavs and followers of the prophet to battle it out for a cold rainy island.

  15. Warren Peace December 12, 2011 at 10:14 am #

    Here’s a fascinating tour of European governments over the post-war years, courtesy of the Guardian:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2011/jul/28/europe-politics-interactive-map-left-right
    Interesting how almost all Europe is now “right” (which they designate as blue contrary to US convention). I puuledthis up after reading Paul Krugman’s column this morning where he argues that belief in democracy is fading across Europe, and that Hungary seems to be descending into full-blown Fascism (and he didn’t even mention Putin). When a mainstream pundit like Krugman starts to sound like CFN, it’s time to be worried.

  16. RyeBeachBum December 12, 2011 at 10:17 am #

    I do not forsee a new war in Europand if there is one it will not last long, tere e, ifis not enough capital left to finance one, nor is there the requisit industrial capicity or raw materials, for much of a modern war. It is clear however that the european experiment over, what come next will be a return to feudalism, albeit post industrial.

  17. Victor999 December 12, 2011 at 10:18 am #

    “Anyway, I’m already looking forward to the nominating conventions of next summer, when angry mobs of the swindled and desperate descend on Charlotte and Tampa like ravaging locusts. Won’t that be a wake up call!”
    Don’t count on seeing them there. They will all be watching it on TV from the FEMA Camp Archipelago in various remote sites in the US.

  18. Elrond Hubbard December 12, 2011 at 10:19 am #

    Hugh C.: “Well the Wal-mart here in Belleville, Ontario is now open 24/7”
    Greetings from Windsor! Where they are busily spending $1.4 billion on extending Highway 401 the last few kilometers to the border with Detroit, in the fervent expectation that a new bridge will be built in the next few years to accommodate the expected growth of traffic. Well, we’ll see about that, won’t we?
    What’s extra fun is that the financing for this new monstrosity called the Windsor-Essex Parkway was coming partly from the now-nationalized Dexia. If (when) the financial scaffolding drops out from under this road to nowhere and my home town is left with a scarred landscape, scraped free of life with not even a shining concrete monument to show for it, I look forward to reading, with grim relish, the screams of impotent rage from provincial politicians and local libertarian business boosters looking for someone other than themselves to blame.

  19. ozone December 12, 2011 at 10:21 am #

    Holy Shitskies, Jim! (An ancient Polish expression.)
    You’ve encapsulated the whole Clusterfuckian ball o’ wax in one earful! (Well, “eyeful”, but who’s worrying about what words actually mean any more. ;o)
    And, get this, D. Cameron says they’ve opted out of the latest clusterfuckian “agreement” in order to protect the City of London from “over-regulation”. I don’t see any irony in THAT, do you? ;o)
    Just gets funnier and crazier [in a dark demented sorta way] as it tumbles down the canyon wall. (But I’m certain da lawd will bestow the righteous ‘murkin Krishans with a glowing, hearth-warmed howl-a-day of cheap chinese crap! Oh, wholly [be]night[ed]…)

  20. dale December 12, 2011 at 10:24 am #

    Uh oh….bad news for the electric-cars-can-absolutely-possitively-never-work-crowd?
    ———————————————
    http://idealab.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/12/how-graphene-is-helping-to-build-the-best-electric-car-battery.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

  21. Hugh Culliton December 12, 2011 at 10:29 am #

    Since when did lack of capital ever stop Europe from engaging in fratricidal wars? When they’re broke, the wars just go on longer: the 30 Years War and the Hundred Years War being obvious examples.

  22. ABSALOM December 12, 2011 at 10:30 am #

    I’ve been reviewing the material offered by a few voices here, Steve Keen interviews alongside James Rickards commentary, and I’m wondering what a few people here think: will we see dramatic INFLATION or DEFLATION if SHTF?
    I’m guessing if Steve Keen’s advice is heeded (unlikely?), we’d see significant deflation if debts were dismissed, and if the snarls from other prognosticates like Peter Schiff manifest, then wild inflation?
    ABSALOM

  23. Hugh Culliton December 12, 2011 at 10:33 am #

    Well said, my friend. Far from building bridges to Detroit, we should be following the German’s example on the Rhine circa 1945! Alas the end is near and WRT Wal-mart, that might be a very good thing!

  24. Solar Guy December 12, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    There is good news out there. Just look deeper. The taboo conversations of the past (Peak Oil, Infinite Growth Joke, Everything is Fucked, Collapse, etc.) seemed to be coming out with more and more people I encounter. But they all have hope. They also get solar installations. A great beacon in this dim world to show we can power ourselves. A massive step in the right direction. It alters one’s habits, to understand their relationship with energy, and live a bit more within their means.
    Anyone pay attention to ANONYMOUS?
    Went for a ride in a TESLA ROADSTER this weekend after selling the owner a PV system to charge it. 0-60 in 3.7 seconds. Instant Torque. Just simply fucking awesome.
    Working 7 days a week, 100 hr weeks. But not for the money, because I know that it’s a joke. I’m doing it because of my passion. I’m the simple mother fucker who actually thinks I’m going to change the world. One solar panel at a time.
    Cheers Clusterfuckers.
    PUSH ON. DO GOOD. KEEP SMILING.

  25. steve December 12, 2011 at 10:36 am #

    Amazing, simply amazing, a whole gaggle of doomsayers – er, bloggers – and not a kind word for “old deity”. Rave on, boys, and not a single gal in this group. Tells you something about the differences in gender, n’est-ce pas?

  26. horseoutside December 12, 2011 at 10:39 am #

    There are literally billions of excess bodies. These people are going to have to be removed from the game, before the survivors can move on.

  27. Zaax December 12, 2011 at 10:44 am #

    The Senate has passed a bill that says any US citizen inside the USA that is declared a ‘terrorist” can be held indefinitely and without trial.
    It is the National Defense Authorization Bill of 2012, Sections 1031, 1032 and 1033-35
    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/indefinite-detention-of-american-citizens-coming-soon-to-battlefield-u-s-a-20111209

  28. Neon Vincent December 12, 2011 at 10:45 am #

    Thanks for pointing me to that Krugman column. Looks like the Europeans also have to worry about Fascists, corn-pone or otherwise.

  29. lbendet December 12, 2011 at 10:50 am #

    Just heard today that the average American household has $16,000. charge card debt and that xmas will just add more..
    Charles Hugh Smith has a great post today abut the ipos for Facebook and Groupon–all marketing instruments that will wipe us out with whatever we have left.
    Happy shopping.

  30. Dirk December 12, 2011 at 10:50 am #

    Glad the clueless status quo shannigan’s of the Prez. were not lost on you either, James! I was just livid with the same old BS rhetoric…AGAIN!
    Like you I thought, at least, I was voting for someone who ‘got it’; someone who would at least be DISCUSSING making tough calls on the reality of our situation! But noooo…..the dimwhit goes along with Bernake and his millionaire chronies by pissing away untold billions to bail out the rich at our expense and then….THEN…sits there on national TV touting himself and his ‘economic policies’ for averting another Depression??? WTF!!! Do you suppose OO (Oblivious Obama)
    has even HEARD of compressive contraction? Good thing I drink or I’d have to take it up. Forget the Christmas cookies, James, bring on the whiskey. Fuck it.

  31. Widespreadpanic7 December 12, 2011 at 10:52 am #

    Hey Jim, the WSJ has an article on the exact subject you broach today — the inability of the top 38 European banks to make good on their obligations should the Governments over there begin defaulting — on section C, page 1, buried, if you will, beneath optimistic stories on the overwhelming success of ‘Black Friday’, and an editorial by Daniel Yurgin on how the oil situation is getting better and better.
    You just gotta, like Dorothy in ‘The Wizard of Oz’.
    –WSP7

  32. Neon Vincent December 12, 2011 at 10:52 am #

    “Anyone pay attention to ANONYMOUS?”
    I’ve been paying attention to the young people in the Guy Fawkes masks ever since they started protesting in front of Scientology offices early in 2008. Of course, it helped that one of my daughters was involved along with at least one of my students. For what it’s worth, he Occupy Movement has a big streak of being “Anonymous vs. Scientology II: Anonymous vs. Wall Street” and I’ve written as much at Crazy Eddie’s Motie News. Anonymous’s efforts have finally managed to get them some good press in Wired, which until now has held them in contempt.

  33. Widespreadpanic7 December 12, 2011 at 10:53 am #

    you just gotta believe, like Dorothy in ‘The Wizard of Oz’.

  34. piltdownman December 12, 2011 at 10:55 am #

    I woke up and read Krugman’s column early this Monday morning — and my first thought was, “Well, he finally caught up to Jim Kunstler!” The better columnists at the “paper of record” have used their bully pulpits to nudge public sentiment along, sometimes this way, sometimes that. I think the good Professor is gently suggesting all that Jim has been talking about for months and years; that this is not your father’s recession — and that much worse is just over the event horizon….

  35. Smokyjoe December 12, 2011 at 11:06 am #

    I wonder, in my darkest moments, whether the Germans might again trade their sandals for jackboots.
    More likely, it would be Russian ultra-nationalism behind resurgent fascism. But then they’d bog down in endless wars in their Islamic south, instead of bothering Western Europe. To the south is the oil and the pipeline routes.

  36. ABSALOM December 12, 2011 at 11:09 am #

    Good stuff from C.H. Smith. I appreciate that he’s not afraid to submit data to support his posts — similar to Chris Martenson– the likes of whom have provided me with a new source of education, for which I was frantically searching.
    Grazi,
    ABSALOM

  37. Glensufi December 12, 2011 at 11:09 am #

    Keep truckin solar I don’t think we have a snowball’s chance of turning this MF before it hits the wall but you’re doing good work. Very difficult to know just how far off the rails we are but increasingly I’m thinking things I would never have imagined just a few years ago.

  38. ozone December 12, 2011 at 11:15 am #

    Good advice, and further down in the posting he points out why:
    “…governments don’t forewarn of drastic measures, if only because they can’t really do that. They will always insist that all is well until it is not, or they would risk causing a stampede. The take away from that insight at this point is that we can’t feel safe because our governments – or the main media that move in lockstep with them- haven’t warned us.” Ilargi, the [semi]Automatic Earth
    That’s how it will always go. Thinking and acting for yourself on what you consider valid information is the direction in which you must go. (This is why we’ve been coming here; to get the real zeitgeist in an abrasive and entertaining manner! ;o)

  39. bubbleheadMarc December 12, 2011 at 11:16 am #

    What you so perceptively mention about President Obama goes to the gist of exactly why I dislike “normal” people so much, not to mention what is even worse, or dull normal; the only people who seem to get a good purchase on reality anymore are the deviants of various stripes, because at least they’ve been through the experience of being rejected by the clueless and smug normal assholes who are in charge of everything and have learned nothing since they themselves haven’t yet been through the mill of their own failure experience. So since they haven’t learned anything they simply keep on with the sameold sameold in the mistaken belief that they know what they’re doing, which of course they don’t. Again, people will wake up to the fact that there’s a problem only once everything mainstream has collapsed and people are starving in the developed world. And last time I checked algae diesel was over $33 per gallon so Jim is unfortunately correct about that as well, which is why I recommend that everyone get their hot little hands on a copy of the “GASHOLE” documentary DVD.

  40. Dr. Doom December 12, 2011 at 11:19 am #

    A question for Jim: When are you going to awaken from your Holder Trance and ban the idiots that regularly post here just to promote their own blog sites? The first 30 or so comments are usually riddled with them.
    Also, did you finally give “asoka” the boot?
    Cheers,
    Doom

  41. ozone December 12, 2011 at 11:21 am #

    Hey!
    Just because I AM a deviant, doesn’t mean that I enjoy having it pointed out! ;o)

  42. charliefoxtrot December 12, 2011 at 11:25 am #

    so, the question is would We The People rather live with nothing while the banksters siphon off the last of our wealth; or live with nothing while they freeze up and eat all the paté they ve already stolen…hm, i wonder what would happen if We just picked one bank at a time…say boa, say on a tuesday? would they act like dominoes or a series of successfully larger fish, until the last one was too big to run away…? we might not get our money in either case; but neither would they…i don t know too many people with $250,000 in deposits; there couldn t be much left to skim in the event…

  43. Jagger December 12, 2011 at 11:29 am #

    There is little new under the sun. Reread William Shirer’s two brilliant books on the fall of the French Third Republic and the failure of Germany’s democracy prior to WW2. In particular, Frances failure of democracy seems similiar to today.
    Interestingly both democracies devalued their currencies when confronted by financial challenges which they could not meet. The French devalued their currency by 80 percent wiping out the savings of the poor and the middle class. The politically connected rich moved their money out of the country and returned it back in after the devaluation. They were richer than ever.
    And of course, the Germans inflated their currency until it was completely worthless.
    Another interesting parallel was the ability of the wealthy and banks in France to pick governments and overthrow any government which threatened their power and money. Their ability to shift the costs of government to the poor and middle class is very similiar to today.

  44. Widespreadpanic7 December 12, 2011 at 11:30 am #

    One question, tho:
    In the past century Europe has recovered from two devastating wars; Why can’t it recover from what’s happening now, which, at bottom, is a mere inability to pay for promises made by the welfare state in better times?
    –WSP7

  45. ccm989 December 12, 2011 at 11:31 am #

    Even if Europe collapses today and then all our banks close tomorrow, and the rest of the world follows suit within the week, will we be kicked out of our homes? Probably not. The banks won’t be able to pay anyone to foreclose on all the homeowners whose funds suddenly disappeared. And as long as many have fenced backyards and friendly neighbors to trade with, most people won’t starve. Sure, we’ll all get really skinny but doesn’t everybody want to be thin? And even if trucks stop delivering food and the grocery stores are empty, most people are fat, fat, fat. Of course anyone with a chronic disease like cancer, diabetes or AIDS is dead. No more pharmacies dispensing medication. Hey, and there goes the problems with Medicare and Social Security! No more taxes, no more schools, no more paved roads. No more safety nets. And all the oldster Tea Party people will perish from their wish being granted.
    We’ll certainly be grim. But as long as the government delivers reality TV and basic staples like flour or rice, most people will wait quietly for the bad times to end in their sagging easy chairs. “Bread and circuses” were how the ancient Romans controlled the 1,000,000 souls in Rome and prevented them from revolting. Remember, the Roman Empire lasted for over a 1,000 years because they knew that as long as people were entertained and fed, life would go on without anyone being smart enough to realize how much trouble they were really in. However, if people starve like they did in France or Russia, that’s when violent revolutions begin. Hunger is what makes people angry.

  46. charliefoxtrot December 12, 2011 at 11:33 am #

    well for fuck s sake, what s your safe-word?! cuz i thought that was a defining characteristic of ‘deviant’- “you like that? you sure? who s yer daddy, huh?”

  47. Jagger December 12, 2011 at 11:35 am #

    PS; Fascism was much stronger in France than I realized. In particular, the wealthy, banks and the hard right of the middle class was attracted to the law and order aspects of a fascist dictatorship.

  48. ozone December 12, 2011 at 11:38 am #

    Ha!
    The safe-word (for this month) is: whatthefucktheshitthefuckizzat,eh?!

  49. Widespreadpanic7 December 12, 2011 at 11:40 am #

    Because we spent a month in Europe last summer — just a few months ago. There’s still plenty of wealth there, believe me! And I never saw anybody actually working, unless you call sitting around outdoor cafes in the sunshine all afternoon, drinking chilled tumblers of champaign, and other concoctions of icy wonderfullness, working.
    –WSP7

  50. ozone December 12, 2011 at 11:43 am #

    Very relevant point. And it makes “sense”.
    “We” are all in this together …to support the continued power and wealth of those at the very top.
    (Oh, they leave that second part out of the publicly-available rhetoric.)

  51. ofthehands.com December 12, 2011 at 11:47 am #

    I imagine the system will keep teetering along without a new major shock through the holiday season, but 2012 should certainly prove interesting. I can’t imagine there not being another shock sometime within the next calendar year, and I imagine it’ll be a big one. The presidential election should be interesting, to say the least.
    We’re already in it, though. The collapse is upon us–there isn’t one big event that presages it. It’s been happening for awhile. I hope people are working on their gardening skills and reminding themselves what physical labor feels like and doing everything they can right now to live with as little energy as possible because it’s just going to keep getting tighter and tighter over the next couple years.
    Joel

  52. charliefoxtrot December 12, 2011 at 11:48 am #

    you know, that phrase ‘welfare state’ is made up, and ignores the fact that the conditions that make people need help were created by fuckerers who have NEVER been hungry, or cold, or in pain from working for nothing in their lives…hell, punching a button on a computer isn t work no matter how many times you do it…until workers are compensated fairly, that is, commensurate to the actual value of said labor, there will always be those among us who need help…

  53. Widespreadpanic7 December 12, 2011 at 11:48 am #

    Hey Smoky Joe you don’t have to worry about the Krauts getting back into Jackboots. They’re a bunch of pansies now, couldn’t fight their way out of a paper bag. The fight has been taken out of them the monumental events of the last century.
    –WSP7

  54. charliefoxtrot December 12, 2011 at 11:52 am #

    tuesday, 2:39 pm est, bank of america local branch…what the fuck, over…?

  55. charliefoxtrot December 12, 2011 at 11:55 am #

    lindsay graham has little boys locked up in his basement…pass it on

  56. rippedthunder December 12, 2011 at 12:00 pm #

    Sheez LB, I better whip out the plastic! Imabout 16 “large” in the black! Although if inflation goes through the roof I will be kickin’ myself that I was not in debt up to my eyeballs.

  57. ABSALOM December 12, 2011 at 12:05 pm #

    I think this is a very relevant remark. it reminds me of the film The Pianist. I, for some reason, keep waiting for this huge, calamitous event, and it never happens. Frog in lukewarm water, perhaps? So, like the Jews who continued to think things couldn’t get much worse until finally being loaded onto cattle cars and shoveled into ovens, should I just hunker down and whether the storm. Fuck.
    Taibi’s article on indefinite detention smacks of history I never bothered to believe could happen again. Just have to wait and see, I guess.
    ABSALOM

  58. ABSALOM December 12, 2011 at 12:07 pm #

    I know Q will be along to nail me for the typing oversights soon. OOPS!

  59. anti soak December 12, 2011 at 12:10 pm #

    and now this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    got this in an email today:
    OIC is the largest head of state organization in the world after the United Nations (UN) itself and comprises 56 Muslim countries plus the Palestinians. It claims to be the “collective voice of the Muslim world,” i.e., the ummah, and speaks on its behalf in effect as the seat of the next Islamic Caliphate. In 1990, the OIC membership adopted the “Cairo Declaration ,” which officially exempted all Muslim countries from compliance with the UN Universal Declaration on Human Rights and replaced it with Islamic law (shariah).
    One of the fundamental laws of Islam deals with “slander ,” which is defined in shariah as saying “anything concerning a person [a Muslim] that he would dislike.” At the OIC’s Third Extraordinary Session, held in Mecca, Saudi Arabia in December 2005, the organization adopted a “Ten-Year Programme of Action to Meet the Challenges Facing the Muslim Ummah in the 21st Century.” A key agenda item of that meeting was “the need to counter Islamophobia” by seeking to have the UN “…adopt an international resolution to counter Islamophobia, and call upon all States to enact laws to counter it, including deterrent punishments.” The word “Islamophobia” is a completely invented word, coined by the International Institute of Islamic Thought (IIIT), a Muslim Brotherhood (Ikhwan) front group. OIC adoption of the term reflects the close operational relationship between the OIC and the Ikhwan.
    Six years later, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is due to host OIC Secretary General Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu in Washington, DC in mid-December 2011 to discuss how the United States can implement the OIC agenda to criminalize criticism of Islam. Cloaked in the sanctimonious language of “Resolution 16/18,” that was adopted by the UN Human Rights Council in April 2011, the WDC three-day experts meeting is billed as a working session to discuss legal mechanisms to combat religious discrimination (but the only religion the Human Rights Council has ever mentioned in any previous resolution is Islam). The UN Human Rights Council, which includes such bastions of human rights as China, Cuba, Libya, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia, introduced Resolution 16/18 to the UN General Assembly (UNGA), where it was passed in March 2011.
    The Resolution was presented to the UNGA by Pakistan (where women get the death penalty for being raped and “blasphemy” against Islam is punished by death). Ostensibly about “combating intolerance, negative stereotyping and…incitement to violence against persons based on religion or belief,” the only partnership mentioned in the text is the one with the OIC. The U.S., whose official envoy to the OIC, Rashad Hussain, helped write Obama’s Cairo speech, actively collaborated in the drafting of Resolution 16/18.
    Now, the OIC’s Ihsanoglu will come to Washington, DC, the capital of one of the only countries in the world with a Constitution that guarantees freedom of speech and a judicial system that consistently defends it, with a publicized agenda to criminalize criticism of Islam. His agenda, and, apparently that of his host, the U.S. Department of State, seek to bring the U.S. into full compliance with Islamic law on slander, as noted above.
    Read it all and Contact Your Elected Officials – NOW!

  60. rippedthunder December 12, 2011 at 12:12 pm #

    Hi SOLAR GUY, I know you don’t post much so I hope you see this. I have been thinking of making my own PV panels. The components are all over eBay. What do ya think about the flexible amorphous cells?
    http://www.technologyreview.com/business/22745/
    also how about buying broken cells and soldering them together?
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/120825613584?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
    I can handle the construction but would it be worth my time? Thanks RT

  61. Phutatorius December 12, 2011 at 12:16 pm #

    I do think that we as a nation forgot the lessons of Greek tragedy a long time ago. Especially wrt to hubris, and the law-of-opposite-effects, ie when trying to avoid an outcome is what brings about that outcome. I guess I can be grateful that they made us read some of that in the public schools. It’s not as though Greek tragedy was going to make us better cogs in the economic machine. The late Chalmers Johnson wrote about some of this.
    -Phut

  62. rippedthunder December 12, 2011 at 12:17 pm #

    UR1 sik Sumbitch O3 ! how about u luze an atom and get back to normal! ;o)

  63. marsyas December 12, 2011 at 12:31 pm #

    Yes, yes yes. The shits gonna hit the fan, blah, blah , blah. But it never does. And it ain’t cuz it’s a matter of everyone having faith. As long as we all believe in the funny money, it’s as good as gold. There’s not enough gold in the world to fund the current business activity. And to think we are all going back to farming is so ludicrous as to defy belief. Yeah, think local, cottage industry, barter, small is better. Think Meet me in St. Louis, Judy and the gang. Ride the trolley.Penrod and Sam allover again. Sweet Dreams are made of this.

  64. Terrrier December 12, 2011 at 12:34 pm #

    Burn down the Conventions
    If we’re gonna stay alive
    Watch the black smoke fly to heaven
    See the red flame light the sky
    Burn down the Conventions
    Burn ’em down to stay alive
    It’s our only chance of living
    Take all you need to live inside

  65. The Mook December 12, 2011 at 12:35 pm #

    A french speaking faggot counts as a split-tail, wee? OH, I’ll ask Alex Trebec.

  66. The Mook December 12, 2011 at 12:38 pm #

    And to think the morons will vote him in for another four years ala Bushy Boy.

  67. ASPO Article 1037 December 12, 2011 at 12:44 pm #

    The “old Deity” AKA “The Ancient Of Days” has perfectly well written out the story line, on a number of levels. Things happen whether or not you believe, and denial does not prevent.
    Preliminaries to the main event are under way now, with an updated version of “Battleship” in progress, using real carriers and guided missle cruisers.
    Israeli government call for a vote of confidence in January will either confirm or disavow the hard liners there. Just as the USA vote in November will see the present State Department and foreign policy drift, or or someone with John Bolton’s mindset directing. As JHK says, wars can evolve out of the present situation(s).
    “ASPO Article 1037” suggests in previous postings some nuts & bolts transport/distribution adjustments in order for these proceedings. JHK alludes to the railway tool as an essential part of the “Long Emergency” solution set. Now, we are heading into the WWII syndrome of needing to play catch-up in transport as the energy emergency comes at us in a rush…
    Lacking the voluminous inventory of dormant rail plant we had in the 1941 war, we nonetheless have many recently abandoned candidates for rehab. As the country puts mind and material to rail distribution again, we will get the key agricultural and manufacturing vicinities reconnected to national rail matrix.
    Deal with it. Middle East and other regions with oil & Islam mixed up spells Federal Executive Emergency Orders for motor fuel rationing. Europe will not help as they did in the Katrina fuel emergency; they will be sending military to the oilfields because THEY are short on fuel too. Likewise China & India. Look for a horrific bloodletting in the oilpatch.
    USA has wherewithal and with some political backbone applied, ability to refit transport to a de-minimus level to keep victuals and necessities of life distribution flowing. As Moshe Dayan said; “we must apply the minimum required effort to achieve the minimum acceptable results”.

  68. Islander800 December 12, 2011 at 12:50 pm #

    One point I always wonder about – just what do any of the Dems, Repugs, Tea Hatters, etc. propose doing about employing the 10s of millions of un-and under-employed that used to have well-paying industrial jobs? The social contract that worked well in the 50s and 60s is now utterly broken (rise up from the dead and take a bow, Sir Ronnie)and nobody has a clue what these people can do now for gainful employment. Become computer analysts? Are you kidding me? The Indians are cornering that market.
    No, these souls will never have a hope of any solution to their situation, given the perverted trade rules now in effect. They are the elephants in the rooom, as we don’t have a clue what to do with them. They’re so much surplus humanity.
    Heard any plausible suggestions – from anybody – on what’s to be done? Do we just let them all whither away somehow, or when they get really hungry and angry, do we just “disappear” them to the rumored FEMA camps?
    Obama, apart from your faith in the “confidence fairy”, what is your proposal? Maybe you should take a page from the past (I know, it’s so yesterday) and get serious about WPA/CCC-type programs. Roosevelt (remember him? He was a Democratic president, just like you) put 3 million to work – and providentially, prepared them for a quick-switch to military uniforms when the shit hit the fan. Let’s see, that would be something close to 6 million today, based on present population.
    What’s that you say? The Repugs would never allow it? Maybe you need to remind them what 25% unemployment and growing hunger and hopelessness among the young means for the likelihood of Repugs keeping their arrogant, smug heads still attached to their bodies. Better yet, tell them to go f*&k themselves and JUST DO IT.
    Obama?….Obama?….Any HOPE for any CHANGE – at all – on your watch? Otherwise, you may just be the last democratically-elected president in American history…

  69. wagelaborer December 12, 2011 at 12:54 pm #

    Is the money real? Are our investments safe? Will the bankers impoverish Europe?
    Oh, and by the way, the Earth is warming and the US helped to destroy another effort to save it, in Durban. At least this time Obama didn’t personally fly in to sabotage it, as he did in Copenhagen.
    Last year the amount of carbon dioxide pumped into the air rose another 5+%. The oceans are acid and full of plastic, and species are dying, while hurricanes, fires and floods increase.
    And the oil companies are ready to get up to the melted Arctic to drill for more oil.

  70. k-dog December 12, 2011 at 12:59 pm #

    And I completely dismiss his claim that the reason no prosecution of Wall Street misconduct happened was because, however odious their schemes and scams were, they were technically legal.

    So nobody caused anybody to lie and put money in ANY misrepresented investment at all anywhere? Billions of dollars vanish and everybody everywhere was telling the truth? Rating agencies use formulas they have used for years and suddenly start coming up with erroneous ratings?
    Shit just happens?
    k-dog who is very risk adverse concerning investments suddenly finds his retirement money has been used to buy toxic assets (mortgage backed bonds) in 2008 by the Principal Financial Group without his permission and a pissed off k-dog has to travel into Bellevue WA to withdraw his money as a result.
    I was happy with the money market account I had it parked in. Spending my money and buying bonds without my permission was legal how?
    The truth is that people who misrepresented mortgages to people so old they bump into walls because they can’t see so good anymore are not even being prosecuted. Prosecuting little fish would lead to prosecuting bigger fish so we won’t even be prosecuting obvious fraud. A segment about this was on 60 minutes recently, anybody see it but me?
    I saw the ‘technically legal’ defense coming months ago, and coming from the lips of one who would suspend civil rights and legalize the murder of American Citizens it is not surprising at all. But getting into that would be DRONE-ing on.
    If he gets back in we soooooooooooooo deserve it.
    No, I take that last statement back.
    If he gets back in YOU soooooooooooooo deserve it.
    So please please, rinse and repeat.
    Little people don’t matter to this man.
    Little people don’t matter to this man.
    Little people don’t matter to this man.
    Little people don’t matter to this man.
    …………..
    He only pretends that they do.

  71. k-dog December 12, 2011 at 1:00 pm #

    oops ———– that what happens when a blockquote tag is not closed properly.

  72. wagelaborer December 12, 2011 at 1:08 pm #

    What I think should be done is to put every able-bodied person to work planting trees (ala WPA), retrofitting houses, cleaning up rail lines, starting small farms, installing solar panels, and so on.
    What is Obama doing? Same as Bush and Clinton.
    Building the FEMA camps, cutting welfare and Social Security, defunding Medicare, threatening war with China, Iran and Russia.
    Yeah, the “excess” population will be taken care of, all right.

  73. messianicdruid December 12, 2011 at 1:12 pm #

    A vid of all RPs responses during the Iowa debate. The last two minutes must be heard!
    http://www.goldismoney2.com/showthread.php?25952-All-Of-Ron-Paul-s-Responses-At-The-ABC-Iowa-GOP-Debate

  74. rippedthunder December 12, 2011 at 1:15 pm #

    this one is for you 8M, OEO, Tegmark From “ILOVEPHILOSOPHY.COM”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlIrI80og8c

  75. Jimmy Drinkwater December 12, 2011 at 1:18 pm #

    One point I always wonder about – just what do any of the Dems, Repugs, Tea Hatters, etc. propose doing about employing the 10s of millions of un-and under-employed that used to have well-paying industrial jobs? The social contract that worked well in the 50s and 60s is now utterly broken (rise up from the dead and take a bow, Sir Ronnie)and nobody has a clue what these people can do now for gainful employment. Become computer analysts? Are you kidding me? The Indians are cornering that market.

    Looking to any of the named political factions to do anything outside the status quo is time misspent. Admittance to their club requires a forgone signing on to the dictates of the ‘new world order’, the logistical end game of which is flat wage parity on a global scale. Enter the new American peasantry, competing with small plot rice farmers half a world away.

  76. k-dog December 12, 2011 at 1:22 pm #

    “The social contract that worked well in the 50s and 60s is now utterly broken (rise up from the dead and take a bow, Sir Ronnie)”
    And then please please go back to being dead. Your destruction was so complete you don’t need to be walking the earth like a specter with unfinished business to do. You did it.

  77. charliefoxtrot December 12, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    did you read the link? if you live near an airport, or an army base- open or closed- or nat l guard base, that is your concentration camp…and whoever is left behind is left to kil each other off for scraps…and remember the roving marauders in mad max? we ll have those, too, but they ll be comprised of rogue cops, with all the left-over armor…license and registration, please…?

  78. messianicdruid December 12, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    Dramatic inflation on essentials, moderate deflation on nonessentials.

  79. k-dog December 12, 2011 at 1:26 pm #

    People do crossword puzzles and such to develop their brain. I should watch the Republican debates why?
    I actually saw what you are talking about last night and the thought came to me that watching them for too long might make me stupid.
    Be careful of the company you keep.

  80. charliefoxtrot December 12, 2011 at 1:30 pm #

    is it tuesday yet? cuz i m gettin’ hungry, and i haven t had a burger in a LONG time…like for real, not for over a month…

  81. rippedthunder December 12, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

    “Whackin’ him off from a distance”
    How come american TV is not like this?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFTxoNMjmiQ&feature=related

  82. dale December 12, 2011 at 1:35 pm #

    I’m guessing if Steve Keen’s advice is heeded (unlikely?), we’d see significant deflation if debts were dismissed, and if the snarls from other prognosticates like Peter Schiff manifest, then wild inflation?
    ————————————
    Flip a coin, your odds are just as good at being right as listening to either of those pundits.
    Figure it this way; the more extreme, the sooner in time, and the more capital letters the pundit uses for his forecasts….the more likely it is he hasn’t the slightest idea what he’s talking about.

  83. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 1:41 pm #

    Still using non-violence? What are you smoking? They’ve already disgraced themselves again and again – just as the “non violent” protestors did in the 60’s. Guess you don’t watch the news.
    The Police have misbehaved also. I know you think it has to be just one or the other – people try to think with the part of the mind that chooses good/bad, pleasure/pain, but that is a big mistake. That’s how we ended up with the “two party system”.
    The Left also believes in never ending growth as per China and the Soviet Union proved. They have no answer whatsoever. Of course the Left tries to co-opt any and all protest movements so they have taken over the Greens. It’s just a tactic, nothing more.

  84. dale December 12, 2011 at 1:41 pm #

    Doom!!!
    Yer back, and less than a year to go until your prediction of….what was it? $200+ a barrel oil. How’s your prognosticating working out?

  85. Lindsay Curren December 12, 2011 at 1:43 pm #

    Great column, as always, though maybe God isn’t asleep at the wheel. Perhaps (to us believers) he’s just got a divine sense of irony, and works in mysterious ways. Showing our gross consumerism for exactly what it is at the moment when so many pretend to care about the “spirit ” of the season when all they care about is gorging on more credit card debt would be just like God (to us believers).
    On an unrelated note, we have a review of Duncan Crary’s new book the KunstlerCasst on Transition Voice today: Talkin’ peak oil blues: Review of the new KunstlerCast book
    –Lindsay Curren
    Editor
    Transition Voice

  86. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 1:44 pm #

    Fascism is just the Left’s word for Nationalism. That’s the opposite of turning your Continent over to Muslims or Mexicans. You continue to amaze with your capacity for cluelessness.

  87. k-dog December 12, 2011 at 1:45 pm #

    Daniel Yurgin was on NPR last week letting everyone know that since expenditur on solar and wind energy development will exceed spending on oil prospecting this year for the first time ever the switch to clean renewable energy is in full swing and we don’t have a thing to worry about.
    Good to know.

  88. dale December 12, 2011 at 1:49 pm #

    I imagine the system will keep teetering along without a new major shock through the holiday season, but 2012 should certainly prove interesting.
    ——————————————
    Uh oh….here we go….another forecaster.
    Yeah….that Mayan calendar thing….I’m really concerned about that one too, along with the giant planet out beyond Jupiter…. and that alien ship cloaked on Mercury….that’s really freaking me out!!! I wish something would just destroy us and get it over with for fucksakes…I just can’t handle the suspense.
    (if you have similar thoughts to the above, its a good sign you have too much time on your hands)

  89. wagelaborer December 12, 2011 at 1:49 pm #

    What link? I DO live near an airport, now an Air Force National Guard base, and a FEMA disaster site.
    I’ve been complaining about it for years.
    And lately I’ve been seeing trucks loaded with giant logs going down my street.
    WTF? Is that for the crematoriums?

  90. wagelaborer December 12, 2011 at 1:54 pm #

    And I wrote a letter to the editor about it. Damn, now I’m on the list with Ripped!

  91. turkle December 12, 2011 at 1:56 pm #

    The problem isn’t necessarily the electric cars themselves but generating all that extra electricity to run them, capiche? Where do we get it from? Coal? Natural gas? Nuclear? If any of the above, we’re right back where we started.

  92. wagelaborer December 12, 2011 at 1:57 pm #

    You know, Harper’s interviewed a Mayan priest, and he said that there was no prophecy about 2012 in Mayan tradition.
    But, carry on.

  93. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 1:59 pm #

    Democracy? You know how dumb the average guy is? By definition, half the population is even dumber. They are dumb enough to put Newt Romeny in. They will. That’s why the Elite love Democracy and why they’re so terrified of Nationalism and the disciplined Democracy of traditional Republicanism. Meaning? Only qualified people vote. Qualified? Those who have proven their loyalty by service and their knowledge of Politics and History by testing.
    Fascism? Sure, but look how the victors have handled things? Destroyed Europe within three generations and in the process of turning the place over to Islam. Fascism is its own philosophy and not just a synomym for totalitarianism. From another angle: anything “They” hate so much has to have something good about it. They hate tariffs too. Imagine if we had maintained our trade balances instead of listening to the Krugs and the Friedmans – either of them.

  94. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 2:01 pm #

    Why don’t you chain yourself to the FEMA Camp fence and demand entry. You could become the Left Wing Alex Jones.

  95. turkle December 12, 2011 at 2:01 pm #

    The stuff hits the fan on an individual basis here in the US, or so it seems. It happens in slow motion. One more foreclosure. Another family out on the street, living in their car (most of them in Florida). Another young man sent to prison. Another fall in the value of the dollar. More manufacturing jobs sent overseas. Another thousand in credit card debt, just to make ends meet.
    And each person tends to blame themselves. The systemic effects are ignored in our individuated, solipsistic society. The religious types think that God must have some special plan and/or punishment for them.
    Of course, sometimes TS really does HTF. Greece is in full scale meltdown mode, from what I can tell. Is US and A next? We shall see. I wouldn’t want to prognosticate though, at the risk of being told by diggity dale that no one should ever predict anything ever under any circumstances. 😉

  96. turkle December 12, 2011 at 2:03 pm #

    Put away your one note banjo, Vladdie, or I’m going to break it again.

  97. charliefoxtrot December 12, 2011 at 2:04 pm #

    i saw a bit on colbert making fun of jesse ventura, so for grins i looked up the site- and right there was an article about the fema camps…there are links which talk about a bill in congress designating army bases and airports at which the camps were to be built, and about govt asking private contractors to supply body bags and freeze dried foods, among other things…another said there is also a sudden scarcity of materiale needed for construction of personal bunkers…seems the rumors are more than just conspiracy theories…i suggest everyone check it out, whether you buy into conspiracy or not- might just change your mind, considering how long it has been going on without any mention…

  98. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 2:06 pm #

    That’s true: people mock the OWS and tell them to get a job. Anyone who doesn’t have a job has only themselves to blame to these folks. The Elite have us divided – exactly where they want us. One Catholic writer said that guilt about unemployment or not getting ahead has replaced the place of Sin in human consciousness.

  99. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 2:08 pm #

    You have never defeated me nor will you ever. You have run from every debate we ever had. And no, calling me nasty names is not really debating.

  100. turkle December 12, 2011 at 2:10 pm #

    Right, because fascism worked so fantastically well the last time it was tried in Europe, didn’t it, Vlad?
    It was great for everyone, except the French, the Brits, the Poles, the Jews, the gypsies, …
    And then the ones who actually tried it out, Italy and Germany, were left in ruins, with populations who never wanted to return to that system of government, ever again.
    Spain limped along until Franco died, but then after that, its people were all too happy to kick it to the curb.
    Fascism….yeah. Why didn’t I think of that?
    A real bear trap of a political mind you’ve got there, Vladdie. Keep up the good work.

  101. bailey December 12, 2011 at 2:11 pm #

    No surprise City of London pulled out and decided to bet their future on financial services. Bon Chance!
    Italy has a ton of gold and last time I looked the future was all about cash, bouillon and agriculture, which should make you happy Jim.
    The Dutch and Germans are pouring tons of money into Central Europe, France is in for trouble but Germany, with its strong ties to Russia, not so worried.
    Their model of manufacturing ‘stuff’ and saving is a model the rest of Europe would very much like to follow, that’s why the 26 nations agreed so quickly once UK got outta the room.
    As History suggests, Eurasia is not emerging, its simply re-emerging.

  102. ront December 12, 2011 at 2:15 pm #

    ” So since they haven’t learned anything they simply keep on with the sameold sameold in the mistaken belief that they know what they’re doing, which of course they don’t.”
    Quote attributed to the wise Sydney J. Harris: “Ignorance per se is not nearly as dangerous as ignorance of ignorance.”
    Holiday riddle: What is the difference between a holiday sentiment and holiday fare?
    Ans: One is “Seasons greetings!”
    The other is grease and seasonings.

  103. turkle December 12, 2011 at 2:18 pm #

    How does one win a debate on the internet? I guess it would require some outside arbitration, as neither side is likely to give up and concede defeat. What do you think, CFNers?
    I’m here most weeks, Vlad. Usually, you stop responding to me, not vice versa. Though I have somewhat limited patience for doing this circle jerk, week after week. Things to do and see, you know. Is it your full time job to astroturf here?

  104. charliefoxtrot December 12, 2011 at 2:18 pm #

    yeah, i had quite a quandary to solve re big bro and whether the risk is worth reading this blog, much less posting…i decided the risk of letting the bastards win is greater- and they really can t lock us all up for thinking for ourselves…and communicating with each other i see us in the same light of history as the 60’s civil rights movement: if nobody is sitting at the counter, whether from personal fear or apathy, then ‘they’ are getting exactly what they want, and as a free-thinking man, i can t live in that world…so the more of us who speak our minds, the closer we get to the ideal we were taught in school is ours…so if ‘you’ are reading this, against all constitutional and moral law, get the fuck out, and give back what is rightfully mine to begin with, you pervs…

  105. charliefoxtrot December 12, 2011 at 2:24 pm #

    forgive a new guy to all the parlance bandied about, but wtftstfizzat? astroturf? sounds vaguely insulting in context…

  106. turkle December 12, 2011 at 2:24 pm #

    “You have never defeated me nor will you ever.”
    Either way, you’re still a complete tool.

  107. anti soak December 12, 2011 at 2:33 pm #

    ‘colbert making fun of jesse ventura’
    Need you say more?
    Colbert is one more ‘useful idiot’ it seems.

  108. anti soak December 12, 2011 at 2:34 pm #

    *****

  109. DeeJones December 12, 2011 at 2:34 pm #

    “Not Poland! Please not Poland. How about we make Monaco leader of the world with casinos, fairy princesses, toy soldiers and legal tax evasion as the new World Order?
    Um, haven’t you been paying attention? The Casinos are already running things. Its all just a big ponzi scheme now.
    And I reallly have to laugh out loud (LOL!) when I read about someone saying that there should just be a debt jubilee!! Like, The Powers That Bee (TPTB!) will EVER let that happen. Nope, you will be made to pay back that debt if its the last & only thing you do in this life, one way or another. Lets hope it doesn’t come to the “other way”. Then Wages’ Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA) camps will come into play, and we WILL have a WPA (ok, so I’m tired of writing out the full titles) sort of. The rest of us will probably just become pet chow. But hi-protein pet chow!
    And Vlad, oh Vlad, isn’t there a hole you can crawl back into? Please??
    :})

  110. turkle December 12, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

    Jesse “The Body” Ventura does come across as a bit of a nutcase. He’s kind of an easy target. Just saying.

  111. turkle December 12, 2011 at 2:39 pm #

    LOL. Once I see you write a grammatically correct English sentence, I’ll consider your opinion.

  112. anti soak December 12, 2011 at 2:41 pm #

    ?????
    where will the uber riche run?
    Certainly not Vermont!

  113. k-dog December 12, 2011 at 2:42 pm #

    Electric cars are no panacea but it’s a mistake to say were right back to where we started because the gain in efficiencies in going electric will reduce CO2 emissions over the alternative of doing nothing even it the electricity comes from coal.
    One thing I never see considered is that switching to electric cars will result in changes in how people drive. Charging requires time and is a bit inconvenient. Electric cars also have reduced range. These two considerations working together mean that driving would become a more purposeful activity and total number of miles driven per year would fall.
    But talking about lifestyle changes can be very unpopular. Ideally I’d like to see an electric car with a 60 mile range. Life could go on pretty much as it is. There will be some added inconvenience but with such a hugely reduced carbon footprint it would be a very good thing. Ambulances, fire trucks and police cars should continue to use fossil fuel.
    No offense to you Turkle I’m only jumping on your post because I’m noticing that there are a lot of people showing up and calling regular posters here ‘doomers’ and such in an obvious ad-homenim attack on the pack.
    What to us are logical points of view arrived at as the result of critical thinking may appear as depressed and nut-ball points of view to those new to using their brain and who then encounter what to them are emotionally unpleasant.
    To new arrivals I say this. Thinking for oneself can lead to unpleasant truths, that’s just the way it is. Get used to it, a trained mind will look at all sides of an issue and entertain all thoughts that result from a logical enlightened rational thought processes. If one is particularly unpleasant don’t worry, you don’t have to stay there long because now that your thinking a more pleasant thought may soon take it’s place.
    The truth of a belief is what matters, not how it makes you feel emotionally. The last thing you want to do is hold on to a belief just because it makes you feel good.

  114. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 2:49 pm #

    My old roomate Eddie hated people who whistled because they obviously thought that they were the cats pyjamas and that the whole world was their oyster.
    Rudi (Swami Rudrananda) felt the same way about middle class people – so fucking complacent.

  115. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 2:55 pm #

    As long as you crawl in with me honey. Or better yet, let’s go that new planet they’ve just discovered. But you will do as I say! The Beast will tame Beauty and not vice versa.

  116. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 2:59 pm #

    Alright let’s pick up where “we” (you) left off: Do Blacks have the right to have their own Nations in Africa? Not academic since China intends to take Africa by degrees and by working with their dictators.
    And if yes, then why don’t Whites have the same right to their own Nations?

  117. Buck Stud December 12, 2011 at 3:01 pm #

    Turkel writes:
    “And each person tends to blame themselves. The systemic effects are ignored in our individuated, solipsistic society. The religious types think that God must have some special plan and/or punishment for them.”
    So true, especially in the land of celebrity, where dominant mass media focus on the ‘one-in-a-million’ anchors the myth that anybody can be anything they want in America, provided they just work hard enough. The cult of ‘blame thyself/personal responsibility’ laminates a false consciousness into the collective psyche that, paradoxically, propagates the myth of the individual(the particular) above the dominant general trend. It’s a diabolically brilliant construct, parroted on a daily basis by the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity and most regrettably, Ron Paul.
    Guy de Maupasssant’s ” The Diamond Necklace” is a good read from a Marxist perspective,i.e, conspicuous consumption/commodification:
    http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/Neck.shtml

  118. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    See? You can’t control your snark. Too much Colbert and Stuart. And I’m the tool? Whose? You are doing exactly what the Elite want you to do. You watch these shows, get programmed, and regurgitate. And then you’re proud of your nasty little self!

  119. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 3:09 pm #

    The Fire of Hell is simply God’s Love denied. You are the one who makes it hot by your resistance. It is cool and bright but hatred makes it dark and hot. We must become new lightbulbs – does not the Bible say that the spirit of Man is the candle of the Lord?

  120. charliefoxtrot December 12, 2011 at 3:15 pm #

    you should know that is a character he uses to make fun of the neckties…

  121. k-dog December 12, 2011 at 3:15 pm #

    “The religious types think that God must have some special plan and/or punishment for them.”
    That has always seemed to me to be rather arrogant. If I were god I’d think everybody who assumed they had a special relationship with me so they can turn away and ignore their fellow man because they were among the chosen sucked.

  122. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 3:20 pm #

    Colbert is a tool and Turkle the tool of a tool.

  123. charliefoxtrot December 12, 2011 at 3:23 pm #

    um, god here…you get the golden cookie! finally somebody figured it out! and it only took 2,000 years give or take!

  124. charliefoxtrot December 12, 2011 at 3:29 pm #

    …of course, if you would prefer a milkbone and a skritch on top of your head…

  125. k-dog December 12, 2011 at 3:35 pm #

    Well hell, if I’m that smart maybe I should be president.
    When the write in votes for k-dog come in and they locate me via my IP address it won’t take very long. George started a file on me so they already have my address. Just send over the limo, pick me up and I’ll get right to work.

  126. charliefoxtrot December 12, 2011 at 3:36 pm #

    turk, i have to say, your kickin’ his ass, so far…just point out to him that you have to be with a woman in the first place to commit adultery; that should take the wind out of his sails…of course, with his intimate knowledge of tools, maybe he lives in one of them “progressive, all male compounds”… what a pud…

  127. k-dog December 12, 2011 at 3:38 pm #

    Milkbone!!!!!!!!! My favorite and a belly scratch to boot.

  128. turkle December 12, 2011 at 3:38 pm #

    “And then you’re proud of your nasty little self!”
    Oh, the irony…

  129. metuselah December 12, 2011 at 3:46 pm #

    Brussels is like a ventriloquist’s dummy sitting on Germany’s knee. Germany cannot just step up and act like the Boss of Europe. Too many bad memories of an earlier instance, when a gang of maniacs wearing uniforms studded with grinning totenkopf insignia turned the whole region into a charnel house. So, Germany has to pretend to speak through Brussels.
    ==
    Yes, them faggots sure do like their uniforms. Whether they be the imperialist pederast Greek faggots, or imperialist pederast Roman faggots, or imperialist pederast Vatican faggots, or imperialist pederast Nazi faggots, they are all pretty much the same. The same imperialist homo beasts, just with the updated uniforms.
    Germany, as it was in the days of Charlemagne’s Vatican/Roman empire, basically is an iteration of the Vatican/Roman Reich. What we are seeing is a continuation of a process, though rejected multiple times when it was applied by way of military/political means, now proceeding “stealthily” by way of financial/political means. It is the same political golem we’ve seen before. The same menacing imperialist beast envisioned in Daniel’s dream. Resurrected yet again, the legs of this Vatican/Roman fascist monster clearly identifiable as Europe and the US. The new boss, is the same as the old boss. The New World Order, is the same Old World Order.

  130. charliefoxtrot December 12, 2011 at 3:49 pm #

    did you catch my nominations for consideration to cabinet posts last week? since mewt already broke election law by saying who he would appoint- namely warlord bolton- i think you could get away with same…”all dawgs created equal, etc” i m sure i could serve with the utmost of loyalty to and respect for our constitution…wink wink, nudge nudge, hint hint…

  131. turkle December 12, 2011 at 3:55 pm #

    This is one of the notes on your piano that you like to hit again and again. One wonders why you are so concerned about it.
    Firstly, I don’t get to decide whether a certain race of people should or can have their own country. It isn’t really up to me, or at least the tidal forces of immigration are not anything I have much control over.
    Secondly, the concept of rights is a flimsy one. Who or what determines these rights? Rights do not exist objectively, outside of human political structures. What occurs on the international scene has more to do with power politics. If a tribe can take a piece of land and hold it, I suppose they have a right to it. That was always how it happened in the past. Now international law basically says that no one can take any land from anyone, and, in some ways, it is an inferior system, because political boundaries don’t change according to the realities on the ground.
    Thirdly, the idea of one nation and one people is usually politically unworkable, especially in this day and age of easy mobility. There are always minorities, even in the most homogeneous societies, like Japan. Pre-modern political structures, as in empires and medieval kingdoms, were quite diverse politically (think Roman Empire or the Hapsburg Empire). Only recently has the concept of one nation and one people become some kind of ideal (only in the last couple hundred years actually), and practically speaking, there are many problems with this arrangement. In America, the idea of going “back to” white rule is completely unrealistic and unworkable and would lead to another Civil War. Actually, I’m not surprised you support it, given that you are a big fan of your own unrealistic pipe dreams. The question for you is not whether it is right or wrong, but could it actually work? And the answer is no, it would never work here. Times have changed and left your stale politics behind.
    Fourthly, why make political structures so dependent on such a flimsy concept as race, which is more of a continuum, admitting many shades of gray, than a system of clearly distinct types? For instance, brown-skinned people in India are supposedly Caucasian, yet can have darker skin than some Africans. Skin color and racial characteristics seems a silly criteria to base rigid political structures upon, in this day and age.
    Or is that too nuanced for you? Did you want a yes or no answer? As usual, the truth is far more complicated than simplistic, Hegelian, binary oppositions, of which, I notice, you are a big fan.

  132. charliefoxtrot December 12, 2011 at 3:55 pm #

    stoppit, you re gonna give faggots a bad name! and, well, it s kinda not what s going on there…i mean the whole nazi/pedophile/fascism thing is about power and control; not sex ask any hetero rapist: hey vlad, care to jump in on this one?

  133. Cavepainter December 12, 2011 at 3:59 pm #

    What, you really did expect officidom to declare the truth about how bad things are and how much worse they are going to get? That the developing nations aren’t, that they are going to get worse with vast die-off and ecological collapse no matter how much happy news blather there is on the tube about humanitarian gestures? That America itself is loosing its cohesiveness as a nation — being splintered apart with PC “diversity”? Uh,….have you noticed the gang wars spreading out of the urban centers to rural areas?
    No more flag shoulder patches, just tribal tatoos.

  134. turkle December 12, 2011 at 4:01 pm #

    No one in power cares about what you write on the internet, unless you’re like threatening the POTUS, in which case you might receive a visit from the men in black. They only care if you actually get off the old keister and do something about it, like pitch a tent in a public park during a political protest. Then you’ll be tazed, clubbed, pepper-sprayed, and arrested. It turns out that free speech of the pixels-on-a-screen variety is an excellent release valve for the masses. The pleebs are busy arguing about the wedge issues (see this blog’s comments section week after week). Meanwhile, the PTB get to keep/take/divide the spoils while we all bicker amongst ourselves. Carry on.

  135. turkle December 12, 2011 at 4:07 pm #

    Cave, I don’t agree with the usual line here that the developing countries will necessarily be worse off in the case of a global collapse. For instance, rural South Americans tend to be more self-sufficient, and they don’t generally own cars. They eat food that is grown close to home, which may not be grown with much fertilizer or pesticide input, and they walk everywhere or ride animals. They are more savvy about providing the basics for themselves (no supermarkets). Their cities tend to more compact than ours, with decent public transportation. Dmitri Orlov has a line about how collapse for these societies is like jumping out of a first story window onto the ground. In other words, if you live in an African village, how different would life actually be if the price of oil doubled? Not much, actually. You’d continue doing your thing. On the other hand, the typical American, used to cheap oil, ginormous gas-powered vehicles, 24/7 electricity and lighting, cable tv, internet, plumbing, quick policing by phone call, goods distribution by truck, Wal-Mart, etc. could be in for a rude shock if/when the rug gets yanked out.

  136. k-dog December 12, 2011 at 4:13 pm #

    “Yes, them faggots sure do like their uniforms. Whether they be the imperialist pederast Greek faggots, or imperialist pederast Roman faggots, or imperialist pederast Vatican faggots, or imperialist pederast Nazi faggots, they are all pretty much the same. The same imperialist homo beasts, just with the updated uniforms.”
    This reminds me of a very strange moment I had a few weeks ago.
    I was watching a black and white documentary about a day in the life of the city of 1920’s Berlin. Suddenly a column of German soldiers or police were shown marching down the street.
    The uniforms were almost exact matches to what everyone would quickly learn to hate twenty years later. Only the helmets were slightly different.
    The strange moment resulted when I realized that at the time these young men were filmed they were innocent of crime as they marched down the street. They were just ordinary young men.
    Hitler had not yet come to power but the Weimar Republic uniforms they wore made them look almost exactly like the rapacious squads which would sweep across Poland years later.
    It was a very strange moment and one I know holds more than a few lessons.
    I think the film was simply called ‘Berlin’, I watched it on Netflix.

  137. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 4:14 pm #

    How do you feel about art as an investment? Both from the practical and idealistic side? One might hate yet “find” oneself doing it anyway.

  138. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 4:18 pm #

    The Israei army – no uniforms?

  139. bubbleheadMarc December 12, 2011 at 4:22 pm #

    Good quote.

  140. k-dog December 12, 2011 at 4:23 pm #

    Actually my file resulted when I flipped George W. the bird when he passed by me in a motorcade in 2007. The secret service or FBI agent was not very good at hiding himself when he followed me. It was not my imagination. After a week I think they figured out I was just a piss ant and moved on.

  141. Bustin J December 12, 2011 at 4:40 pm #

    turk said “Jesse “The Body” Ventura does come across as a bit of a nutcase. He’s kind of an easy target. Just saying.”
    Wear your atheism on your sleeve in public and watch the shitstorm gather. Especially during the holidays. JtbV is a straight shooter. He succeeded in politics because he got his PhD in the theater of pro wrestling. As such he understands the arena.

  142. thomas99 December 12, 2011 at 4:41 pm #

    Jimbo…it’s nice to know Jewish folk bake Christmas cookies. And as for all the other vitriol on this site, take a break from blogging and listen to this beautiful (and unique) version of I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7670CXvPX0

  143. Vlad Kramps December 12, 2011 at 4:56 pm #

    Just what I like to fantasize about, Israeli soldiers without uniforms! Really puts a lump in my stocking, if you get my drift

  144. Vlad Kramps December 12, 2011 at 5:00 pm #

    Lordy, I haven’t jumped on a hetetro rapist in years. Does give me the craving to have someone pump and dump in me though, LOL!

  145. Deck December 12, 2011 at 5:01 pm #

    I confess to not haveing gone through all 142 previous comments to see if this is a repeat, but forgive me anyway if this is a duplication.
    We all seem to have taken the position that reality will bitch-slap the government and the public into realizing the crisis. But we’ve already seen the power of the US government and the oil industry to lie to and deceive the public. We are now hearing reports about “exciting new technologies” that are going to save us. You and I know this means mining the sh*t out of Canada’s tar sands, and deep water fields, and stealing more out of the middle east and we also know that with a captured media the public (the US public) is going to buy it.
    So what’s changed? How is it that reality is going to win out this time?
    The US government will deliver more oil to its citizens, the planet will get more raped, and I fear this will carry on until it can’t. And this could be years away.
    Please tell me I’m wrong.
    — Deck

  146. messianicdruid December 12, 2011 at 5:02 pm #

    “I actually saw what you are talking about last night and the thought came to me that watching them for too long might make me stupid.”
    Listening to all of them may, listening to RP {the vid} won’t.

  147. messianicdruid December 12, 2011 at 5:10 pm #

    “I wish something would just destroy us and get it over with…”
    But then we wouldn’t learn anything.

  148. anti soak December 12, 2011 at 5:15 pm #

    OK, so we are 8 hours into this thread.
    The flame war began soon after the thread began.
    And now we have a ‘Vlad Kramps’ and ‘Thomas 99’.

  149. messianicdruid December 12, 2011 at 5:16 pm #

    “The religious types think that God must have some special plan and/or punishment for them.”
    Nothing special. Cause and effect; consequences of ignoring/hating the truth.

  150. Vlad Kramps December 12, 2011 at 5:21 pm #

    Jesus loves me, this I know, for the bible tells me so.

  151. Vlad Kramps December 12, 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    Jesus loves all of god’s (white) children.

  152. messianicdruid December 12, 2011 at 5:25 pm #

    “Rights do not exist objectively, outside of human political structures.”
    You are confusing rights with privileges.

  153. messianicdruid December 12, 2011 at 5:37 pm #

    “The pleebs are busy arguing about the wedge issues (see this blog’s comments section week after week).”
    “This ex-CIA agent is saying pretty much the same thing the “patriot” community has been saying for 20 years. The difference is that “patriots” have had little credibility, while people with this speaker’s credentials have credibility.”
    http://adask.wordpress.com/2011/12/12/ex-cia-agent-warns-of-tyranny-praises-bloggers/#comments

  154. Vlad Kramps December 12, 2011 at 5:37 pm #

    A great big “hello” and “Merry Christmas!”, Auntie!

  155. dale December 12, 2011 at 5:44 pm #

    The problem isn’t necessarily the electric cars themselves but generating all that extra electricity to run them,
    ============================================
    Of course, but the transition would occur slowly, and capacity when car charges could be programmed, (at night) is greater now than needed. Also, efficiencies in other areas (LED lighting for one) will improve capacity right when it is needed.
    I’m not saying its clear sailing, but not exactly hopeless either.

  156. dale December 12, 2011 at 5:47 pm #

    You know, Harper’s interviewed a Mayan priest, and he said that there was no prophecy about 2012 in Mayan tradition.
    —————————————–
    Yeah…..their calendar ends just like yours does, at the end of the year. No matter…..millions will run up their credit cards in hopes they get wiped out.
    But don’t try to tell any true believers…..YOU’RE DOOOOOOOOOMED!!!!!

  157. Tomcat16 December 12, 2011 at 5:48 pm #

    Yes, it will be very interesting to see the nominating conventions next year but unfortunately, quite sad as well when all those swindled, desperate mobs run headlong into all the latest technological gizmos the police/military will surely have waiting for them and be itchin’ to use, which is, I suppose, the wake-up call you’re referring to. The saddest part of that is you’ll have to watch any confrontations on YouTube et al. (until the gov. shuts that down and IF people manage to not have their iPhones confiscated) because the networks won’t show any of the protests… unless people die of course. The conventions themselves will be the usual farce and take back seat to what happens in the streets.

  158. budizwiser December 12, 2011 at 5:48 pm #

    Ive got nothing new to say. Im not unlike JK, with respect to content, for the last year or so.
    As the weeks roll by, we all wonder when someone will call out the “frauds” the party is built on. But the bands keep playing and the people just party-on.
    In so many areas of life – reality is turning “science-fiction-scary.” A world-wide rigged money system built on zombie banks made of zombie securities.
    Nations and governments that are openly bracing for domination of their various peoples. World “leaders” focusing on nothing but the protection and profits of the unseen limo-driven, gated-communities of the ruling corporatocracy.
    We all rant and hope for a news leak, a “clue” or spark that will penetrate the dim minds of the masses of people living with electronically-induced coma-like brains. Something, anything, some tidbit of simple “news” that will show the numb and dumb how dire our futures are becoming.
    And hopefully rally them to public discourse and discontent.
    But alas, as JK has commented last week – “all meaning” has been stripped away from the language of law. Our words, no matter how didactic, how honest have no place in changing the world. Carry on.

  159. lyttonmike December 12, 2011 at 5:49 pm #

    You all remember Aldo Leopold, right? Early environmentalist, died in ’48. I just want to copy here the first three paragraphs of his forward to the Sand County Almanac:
    There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. These essays are the delights and dilemmas of one who cannot.
    Like winds and sunsets, wild things were taken for granted until progress began to do away with them. Now we face the question whether a still higher ‘standard of living’ is worth its cost in things natural, wild, and free. For us in the minority, the opportunity to see geese is more important than television, and the chance to find a pasque-flower is a right as inalienable as free speech.
    These wild things, I admit, had little human value until mechanization assured us of a good breakfast, and until science disclosed the drama of where they come from and how they live. The whole conflict thus boils down to a question of degree. We of the minority see a law of diminishing returns in progress; our opponents do not.

  160. dale December 12, 2011 at 5:54 pm #

    Please tell me I’m wrong.
    — Deck
    ——————————-
    You’re wrong….happy now?

  161. k-dog December 12, 2011 at 5:56 pm #

    wrong?
    “You say — The US government will deliver more oil to its citizens, the planet will get more raped, and I fear this will carry on until it can’t. And this could be years away.”
    Then you say — “Please tell me I’m wrong.”
    If your giving us years we don’t want you to be wrong we want you to be right but I’m afraid Turkle called it a ways up.

    “The stuff hits the fan on an individual basis here in the US, or so it seems. It happens in slow motion. One more foreclosure. Another family out on the street, living in their car (most of them in Florida). Another young man sent to prison. Another fall in the value of the dollar. More manufacturing jobs sent overseas. Another thousand in credit card debt, just to make ends meet.”

    Even if we have years they won’t be good years so we all might as well roll up our sleves get to work. Perhaps we should be calling it the long silent emergency.
    If things just carry on until they can’t anymore then the sooner we have a revolution the better. If things don’t change like you suggest they won’t revolution is inevitable and we should get it over with soon.
    If we can change things peacefully by increasing public awareness and attitudes through education we must do so. If we can get even a few of the right people in charge we must do so. If we can make changes without the necessity of a violent revolution that is the right thing to do.
    But if we know that things are going to continue as they have until the last tree on our Easter Island is chopped down we must rise up with great force and take back what is ours.
    In circumstances of continued deception and inaction resulting ultimately in the death of birth a revolution must happen. There is no other way to put things right under these circumstances and anything less else is immoral.
    If you don’t smell the smoke that’s one thing but to know something is on fire and then to do nothing is not ok. To fiddle while Rome burns is criminal.

  162. James Hansen December 12, 2011 at 5:58 pm #

    I just got back into reading this blog after a 3 month hiatus and I can not believe that nobody, including Mr. Kunstler has brought up the mega disaster in japan. After reading Enenews.com for a month, I think Japan is the most important story in the world and it is being ignored everywhere!
    The three meltdowns has resulted 600 tons of 5000 degree radioactive masses boring into the earth and when they hit ground water all hell is going to break loose. And the 640,000 fuel rods sitting in damaged pools is another huge problem. From what I read, even if all the radioactivity stopped today , there would still be millions of cancer deaths in Japan.
    The probabilities of an immense tragedy happening seem not millions to one but a certainty.

  163. BeantownBill December 12, 2011 at 5:59 pm #

    Either TEOTWAWKI is gonna happen or it isn’t. No matter your belief, the smart thing is to hedge. Even if TS doesn’t HTF, what harm would it do to make a play on the short side? It’s kinda like putting most of your money in a stock, but at the same buying some put contracts in that stock. So learn a useful trade, keep at home a month’s living expenses in cash, maybe own a little cold and silver – preferably silver coins, stock up on the essentials, like food, water, medicines and 1st aide, etc. It might not guarantee ultimate survival, but on the other hand, might allow you to sqeak through a keyhole event.
    And if a collapse never occurs, we can have a few chuckles over a beer or three. Just saying.

  164. dale December 12, 2011 at 6:01 pm #

    Every now and then I see something on the internet that just puts it all in perspective for me. this picture for example:
    http://patrick.net/housing/market.html

  165. dale December 12, 2011 at 6:06 pm #

    But if we know that things are going to continue as they have until the last tree on our Easter Island is chopped down we must rise up with great force and take back what is ours.
    ————————-
    rise up with “furious anger and righteous indignation”…wasn’t that how it went?

  166. BeantownBill December 12, 2011 at 6:08 pm #

    In so many areas of life – reality is turning “science-fiction-scary.”
    Good, accurate and concise description of the current state of the country and world.

  167. dale December 12, 2011 at 6:10 pm #

    So learn a useful trade, keep at home a month’s living expenses in cash, maybe own a little cold and silver – preferably silver coins, stock up on the essentials, like food, water, medicines and 1st aide, etc. It might not guarantee ultimate survival, but on the other hand, might allow you to sqeak through a keyhole event.
    —————————————
    Yup….short term dislocations you can cover. Keep a few months chow around, trade goods, cooking capability etc.
    If it turns into a long-term stinker….guess what? YOU’RE DOOOOOMED!!!

  168. BeantownBill December 12, 2011 at 6:13 pm #

    K-dog for the 1st president of the New United States of America (NUSA).

  169. helen highwater December 12, 2011 at 6:20 pm #

    You know what, Doom? Nobody forces you to read any posting you don’t want to read. Didn’t anybody ever teach you hwow to scroll down past the posts you aren’t interested in? Some of us (at least speaking for myself) actually like seeing links to what others who post here are writing. Maybe you’re just jealous that you don’t have the smarts to write your own blog.

  170. dale December 12, 2011 at 6:21 pm #

    …..and for those of you who have not seen Danny MacAskill yet, I’ll post it again….sorry about that Amway commercial at the beginning…but its worth it to see his thing.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Cj6ho1-G6tw&vq=medium

  171. bproman December 12, 2011 at 6:29 pm #

    Santa is double checking his database and doing a safety check on his mode of transportation for the big day. He will be looking forward to those cookies after finishing this year’s projects in his workshop. Have a nice politically correct festive season.

  172. dale December 12, 2011 at 6:30 pm #

    You know what, Doom? Nobody forces you to read any posting you don’t want to read.
    ———————————-
    Hummm……now that would apply to you as well wouldn’t it??

  173. charliefoxtrot December 12, 2011 at 6:34 pm #

    as opposed to what we have now: GSA- goldman sach’s america…

  174. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 6:56 pm #

    You are using complexities to avoid the existential question – just like women do. And it is practical too since White Countries and only White Counties are being over run with aliens – without their consent as they have been betrayed by their own Goverments and Elites.
    What you say about minorites is important though. Imagine how much more peaceful Africa would be inf the Countries created had been along major tribal lines? The more diversity, the more unrest and bloodshed obviously. Look how peaceful Japan is with almost no minorites except the very small Korean and the defeated and almost vanished Caucasian Ainu. So much for the gentleness of the East Asians, eh Turk? And now imagine how dangerous America will be in the near future with so much Diversity. And whether you are willing to admit or not, the advocates of diversity do use moral language and try and take the highground about the miscegenation of the West – genocide in other words.

  175. Vlad Kramps December 12, 2011 at 7:16 pm #

    The world would be so much better if only white men (strong, virile, muscles bulging) existed and no women (ick) or minorities (double ick ick)!

  176. Vlad Kramps December 12, 2011 at 7:30 pm #

    “maybe own a little cold…:” Oh my gosh, I think I have some of that!

  177. progress2conserve December 12, 2011 at 7:38 pm #

    Nice week’s work, JHK. Thanks, as always!
    “Reality is a harsh mistress. She insists that you pay attention and then, having done so, take care of business. Politics, on the other hand, is more like stage magic.” -James H K-
    Well said. All of our National level leaders know full well that they are in the business of Stage Craft. They have to. Despite their entertaining negative baggage, our politicians – have to be at least that minimally smart.
    Given all that, you don’t rise to National Prominence without being smart, on at least SOME level. Unfortunately, it’s been quite a long while since we’ve had a National Leader who was smart on the level of basic science, biology, physics, or mathematics.
    And since the “harsh mistress,” reality – resides, full time, in the realms of science and mathematics – – it’s no wonder we’re in for a bad time of things, probably soon to get worse.
    Rolling into the future without a clue –
    Accelerator pedal jammed to the floorboard –
    New immigrants coming in at 100,000 per month –
    Would somebody tell me how this is supposed have a Happy Ending – for the US, or the Planet?

  178. Vlad Kramps December 12, 2011 at 7:45 pm #

    Sometimes I feel like I’m living in that movie, “Invastion of the Body Snatchers”. The good version made in the ’50s. I can smell the shit storm, but I have to pretend that we’re all cool and the economy is recovering albeit slower than we might like. Otherwise I’d end up with no friends at all living in some god forsaken part of Idaho, with the only pussy to enjoy would be the kind that eats meow mix.
    I have 3 siblings. They’re all unemployed and recieving unemployment. I have been unemployed for two years now. My unemployment has run out. I just picked up a friend from the train station. She got her pink slip last Friday. And yet everywhere I turn, people are snapping up those xmas bargains, mall lots are full to over flowing, and they’res nary a word about any of the shit that’s going down with a trade inbalance, super duper inflation, or the never to be tried banksters who’ve anally raped this country so bad, if we were a prisoner, we wouldn’t be able to sit down for a week.
    My absolute favorite quote last weekend had to be from the debate where Newt Romney said something to the effect that if he had a question about something regarding Israel, he’d call on his good friend Bibi for some real strong advice. Yeah, stick a fork in us, we’re done. They’re not even pretending anymore. Now let’s all go out and buy new Nissan Altimas for the holidays! Way cool!

  179. k-dog December 12, 2011 at 7:51 pm #

    Thank you BEANTOWNBILL
    Perhaps I should discuss k-dogs qualifications at this point.
    There are perhaps 100,000 American men and women besides k-dog who have the passion intelligence skill and love for our mother earth who could lead this country better than any choice other than k-dog who has been presented to the American public so far. We are left with clowns in a rigged game as choices and the fools who actually think we have choices are legion.
    This is why it is imperative that I win.
    I’ll leave it at that for now.
    Since I am here though I’ve had a k-dog thought concerning revolution and the founding fathers.
    Seems we now have more at stake than they ever did.

  180. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 7:52 pm #

    Doooooom! I’ll see you in Hell!

  181. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 7:55 pm #

    Kramps: Ve are vorking on it. The womb can be artificially created, but not so the Sperm!
    Ve will have sexual surrogate fembots before 2050! Btw, if you look, you will find alot of Feminists saying that men should be reduced to 10% of the population. They started the Gender War – but Ve vill finish it!

  182. Vlad Kramps December 12, 2011 at 8:24 pm #

    Aforementioned brother to above post called me Saturday to let me know he will be evicted in a month from his studio apartment. Soon to be homeless. Merry Christmas!

  183. sevenmmm December 12, 2011 at 8:26 pm #

    I’ll take one!

  184. York Hunt December 12, 2011 at 8:55 pm #

    Thanks Jim for your weekly …. um, “observations” and your very unique way of putting them into words. Your blog was pointed out to me a year or so ago by a long time friend.
    My only peeve of your blog is regarding the posters who disagree with you and other posters who at some point crank up the pissing contests…. calling each (and occasionally even you!) nasty names and acting like, uh… I don’t have a word for it…. inappropriate, immature and rude all come to mind, they don’t totally convey,… close though.
    Anyway, thanks for what you do.

  185. ofthehands.com December 12, 2011 at 8:58 pm #

    ABSALOM,
    I think it will more just be a slow falling apart, a contracting economy, and an ever-dropping standard of living. There’s no one point that we’ll point to and say “that’s when the apocalypse finally arrived.” There will simply be conspicuous events like the chaos of 2008 and then a lot of mundane days during which things get a little worse. We’re already in it. Start making adjustments accordingly.
    And yes, the indefinite detention stuff is pretty scary. I imagine there are some people who expect there to be some American uprisings in the coming years as we fail to come out of economic depression. That bill seems designed for it.
    Joel

  186. ofthehands.com December 12, 2011 at 9:01 pm #

    Calm down there, Dale. I think the 2012 Mayan Apocalypse stuff is nonsense. I just can’t imagine there not being some moments of reckoning in the EU over the next year and would be surprised if the Euro made it out of 2012 intact–not because it’s 2012, but because the EU financial structure is tenuous and not getting any stronger.
    And if the Euro does go down, that’s bound to have some far-ranging consequences, including here in the U.S.
    Joel

  187. progress2conserve December 12, 2011 at 9:09 pm #

    “His job was to lead an epochal re-set of the economy to a very different disposition of things, smaller, finer, more local.”
    -jhk, speaking of Obama, who failed at this-
    The “smaller, finer, more local” theme comes up frequently on this discussion thread. And the implication that the United States is exactly the opposite, and therefore is:
    “larger, coarser, more global”
    does not have to be stated, it is so obvious.
    But, how do we get from here to there.
    I don’t think we do. Every political dollar being spent in the United States, and every outstandingly fine politician being purchased with that dollar – is oriented PRECISELY toward a United States that is –
    “LARGER, COARSER, MORE GLOBAL.”
    Present trends will extend until they can not.
    Our cities will grow and grow.
    Food supply chains will lengthen and coarsen.
    Our dependence on technology and petroleum will increase –
    And our increase in population –
    Which could easily be cut to ZERO, by simple Congressional action – by instituting Replacement Level Immigration – will not be addressed by our present crop of political baffoons.
    Thus, being Americans – we’ve got to walk through the valley of the shadow of death, first –
    What if we don’t come out the other side, intact?
    ============================
    K-Dog – How about making Replacement Level Immigration – one of the planks in your platform?

  188. Buck Stud December 12, 2011 at 9:34 pm #

    Vlad,
    Most of the art I have is from trading with other artists. From an ideological standpoint, I believe in art that appeals on the level of personal aesthetics. Having said that, there are some very astute collectors, both from an aesthetic standpoint and from an investment standpoint. I happen to believe we are heading into a deflationary depression – read Krugman’s latest column; he is calling it a depression right now – which suggests there are going to be a small minority of incredibly wealthy people still looking to purchase luxury items. So the astute collector will probably be able to unload some art and antique items. Milton Horn, another great and relatively obscure Jewish artist did just that during the Great Depression.
    Hope you’re doing OK there Vlad and take it easy – sometimes internet debate turns into a masochistic affair.

  189. progress2conserve December 12, 2011 at 9:36 pm #

    This discussion thread lost a passionate advocate for population growth, to his own choice of self-exile, last week.
    And the general consensus of the CFN thread seems to be that US population control is important, even critical.
    So – the floor is now wide open.
    How fast do we want the United States to grow?
    How do we create jobs for all these folks?
    How do we even feed ourselves, and manage our own lives – in a World of “Peak Everything?”
    Are there ANY reasons at all for high US immigration that do not involve one of the following three things?
    1. Economic growth
    2. Moral platitudes
    3. Ethnic dining opportunities
    Neon Vincent?
    Sandy, the Kultur Critic?
    Anyone else who wants to argue these points.
    Silent night, here?

  190. rippedthunder December 12, 2011 at 9:38 pm #

    Sign me up for the WPA! I can Pick up heby tings and put dem bak down. I am Like Big John. I am only 75″ and 235 so Big Johns got me beat. I got yer back , believe me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS3ErDN50Qk
    They call me Lurch at work. You rang?

  191. charliefoxtrot December 12, 2011 at 9:44 pm #

    cheep…cheep…[crickrets] hey, there went a tumbleweed…

  192. anti soak December 12, 2011 at 9:46 pm #

    I read Elaines Blog, or skim it…………
    Its too depressing, fukushima.
    Nothing I can do.
    Oddly after months of not being able to buy Dulse at local market [they said due to Fukushima]
    It was on shelf today so I bought..
    Its from the waters of Japan.

  193. xhalor December 12, 2011 at 10:18 pm #

    “…inappropriate, immature and rude all come to mind…”
    I’ll take this. On behalf of the regular attendees, bite me crank, matey.

  194. xhalor December 12, 2011 at 10:38 pm #

    I wish I could either devise or be exposed to a mainstream ideology that I could really get behind. I now believe that the cultures that contain the largest populations are going to have to evolve quickly, radically, maybe impossibly, while on a moving treadmill. Governments and laws look good until they are implemented by damaged(?) humans. I’ve been watching solutions constructed with the morality of the past for all of my life. It just doesn’t work and now we’re repeating mistakes within the confines of mortal memory. No, it will all fizzle out chaotically. Hopefully with some memory of where modern civilizations screwed up.

  195. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 10:43 pm #

    As the Traitor W.F Buckley said, the first few hundred names in the New Haven phonebook could do better. Or Porn Film makers – at least they know how to keep to a budget.

  196. xhalor December 12, 2011 at 10:49 pm #

    I think that it is imperative that you win because, most likely, you will have accomplished the victory without it having been predicted by Anderson Cooper.

  197. turkle December 12, 2011 at 10:51 pm #

    Given a long enough time scale, we’re all doomed. (Apologies to Keynes on that one.)

  198. xhalor December 12, 2011 at 11:00 pm #

    If you mean death, I don’t consider death and doom (the kind US citizens are facing) to be equivalent.

  199. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 11:01 pm #

    Prog – Victory is often thus – unaknowledged, bittersweet. They know we are right, have nothing to say, but are not happy about it. Ah well, that’s their problem. Asoka junkies and immigrant enablers denied of their fix.
    I worked with a woman who gave the ethnic food reason why immigration was good. Typical selfish American – can’t think past their own bellies and genitals.
    What do you see happening when it goes to the Supreme Court?

  200. Vlad Krandz December 12, 2011 at 11:03 pm #

    Don’t worry about me. We’re going to make em say Uncle. Uncle.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5dm7AYZ-tg&feature=youtu.be

  201. turkle December 12, 2011 at 11:06 pm #

    Yeah, Vlad, the Japanese are so peaceful that they were the Nazi Germans of East Asia until the US slapped them down, within living memory. In the pre-modern era, Japan was one of the most violent societies on the planet and underwent hundreds of years of Civil War and strife before political unification. Racial homogeneity != peace.

  202. xhalor December 12, 2011 at 11:07 pm #

    “Typical selfish American – can’t think past their own bellies and genitals.”
    I’ve been to a lot of different countries. I’ve found that the older the culture, the more open they are about their belly and genital imperatives. If not in the letter of the law, then certainly within local traditions.

  203. xhalor December 12, 2011 at 11:19 pm #

    Here’s what racial homogeneity gets you
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTkXDOBmvtQ

  204. turkle December 12, 2011 at 11:28 pm #

    Uh, okay.
    The Europeans are mostly considered the same race (Caucasians), yet European history is probably the bloodiest of any region on the earth. They always found something to fight about, whether it was different languages, cultures, or (usually) some different take on the same religion. Let’s face it. Everyone having the same skin color doesn’t mean that the society will be like singing Kumbaya around the camp fire. The Muslims fight amongst themselves because some believe that the son of Mohammed was divine and others don’t, and they’re mostly all Arabs.

  205. turkle December 12, 2011 at 11:36 pm #

    America is unsafe because there are too many firearms here. You take away the guns, and it wouldn’t be very dangerous at all. Almost 70% of murders are performed with them, and almost 50% of robberies. You take that out of the equation, and America would be far less violent, regardless of the supposed dangers of racial miscegenation (are you stuck in 1951 or what?).
    That’s really why Japan isn’t a very dangerous place at all. No guns. You feel really safe walking down the street, because you know that the odds of having a gun pulled on you are very small. And, yes, I have been there before.

  206. Vlad Kunt December 12, 2011 at 11:49 pm #

    The Fire of Hell is simply God’s Love denied. You are the one who makes it hot by your resistance. It is cool and bright but hatred makes it dark and hot. We must become new lightbulbs – does not the Bible say that the spirit of Man is the candle of the Lord?
    ****************************************************
    VK you racist bigotted god botherer. Its a pity there is no hell because as sure as night follows day, you’d be desitined for it.

  207. Neon Vincent December 12, 2011 at 11:50 pm #

    “You continue to amaze with your capacity for cluelessness.”
    What I say bothers you. Good. Now, Impaler, ask yourself how much do you want to encourage me?

  208. Neon Vincent December 12, 2011 at 11:52 pm #

    “What are you smoking?”
    Wrong question, Impaler. Care to change the method of delivery for my drug of choice?

  209. RHenry December 13, 2011 at 12:19 am #

    You have already seen inflation in asset prices (houses, etc) and now you will see deflation in those assets.
    You will see inflation in the necessities of life (food/energy) as the Feds money printing agenda (QE1, QE2, ..QE infinity) provides those TBTF banks that get first access to that money the opportunity to bid up commodity prices ‘risk free’ as the Fed underwrites the privatization of profits and socialization of losses. We are already seeing this inflation in all types of commodities.
    http://www.smartmoney.com/invest/strategies/grain-farmers-are-harvesting-big-bucks-22617/
    This can go on for quite awhile until slowly the purchasing power of the average citizen decays to the point that they can no longer afford even the basic necessities. There is no more insidious form of theft than intentional currency debasement as very few can detect the long term consequences as it happens so slowly.
    “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered…I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies…”
    Thomas Jefferson on private banking institutions

  210. IxNoMor December 13, 2011 at 1:13 am #

    “As the Traitor W.F Buckley”
    Vlad, you sell yourself down the river *HARDCORE*. No wonder 2 different kunts/kramps appeared in your wake.
    How you can disrespect the only *legitimate* right-wing repubtard “WFB” like that, defies belief. Perhaps you were in the urinal (literally, LAPPING IT UP – LAP-DOG).

  211. wagelaborer December 13, 2011 at 1:20 am #

    You’ve got it exactly right.
    As long as I personally have a job, then the collapse is not here, even if I see more people unemployed, and the ER is full of crazy people, but the mental hospital has closed 60 beds, and more people are killing themselves, and people can’t be transferred because they can’t pay for the gas.
    And so many houses still have blue tarps on their roofs, and so many trees are still down, and the dead animals on the side of the road just stay there until they rot, because no one picks them up anymore.
    That’s how it happens.

  212. IxNoMor December 13, 2011 at 1:22 am #

    “The three meltdowns has resulted 600 tons of 5000 degree radioactive masses boring into the earth and when they hit ground water all hell is going to break loose. And the 640,000 fuel rods sitting in damaged pools is another huge problem.”
    I’ve been poasting about this, along with Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Bikini Atoll, and Chernobyl, for quite a *while*. And others have been voicing offense here, concerning Fukushima, and the *CHINA SYNDROME*, on and off for a few months…
    I was more concerned with when that Fukushima meltdown would hit a fault line/live lava (Japan volcanic meltdown). But you bring it even closer to home – when it hits the water table.
    One must *WONDER* why Nagasaki and Hiroshima are so “safe” today, when the cesium half-lifes are in the tens to hundreds of thousands of years… Who came along and *MAJIKALLY* cleaned it all up? *GHAD*?!?

  213. wagelaborer December 13, 2011 at 1:28 am #

    Now I remember. I’ve looked it up, but only found the youtube version. Can you post a link?
    I have two ex-co-workers who went to work for Homeland Security.
    One is a right-winger. I saw him not too long ago, and made a joke about the FEMA camps at the airport, and he looked startled. Then he saw that I was kidding and ha-ha’d about it. I had actually been kidding, but his reaction made me wonder.
    The other one is apolitical and kept disregarding my warnings about Homeland Security and its ulterior motives. But something happened to freak this person out, and the last time I saw them, they would only say “I wouldn’t put anything past them”.
    So I am pretty sure that something is going on. Obviously, most people employed by Homeland Security believe that they are doing the lord’s work, keeping americans safe, blah, blah, blah.
    But they don’t know the overall plan. I don’t either, obviously, but I wouldn’t put anything past them.

  214. IxNoMor December 13, 2011 at 1:42 am #

    “You’ve got it exactly right.”
    You and me – we are *THE SAME*! Say it ain’t so!!!
    How about Kramps and his/her siblings! The story is nothing, but an unfolding of *REALITY*. Believe DAT!

  215. observer December 13, 2011 at 2:04 am #

    To those who think the rule of law disintegrated in the last ten years or so, this article commemorating Gary Webb’s investigation of the intelligence community’s involvement in bringing cocaine into the USA will be a reminder that it was thoroughly compromised in the Reagan years:
    http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/276-74/8838-the-warning-in-gary-webbs-death

  216. wagelaborer December 13, 2011 at 2:06 am #

    Wrong again, kdog.
    It’s imperative that Jill Stein wins.
    http://www.jillstein.org/

  217. wagelaborer December 13, 2011 at 2:09 am #

    Replacement level? Why do we need to replace too many Americans?
    Harper’s Magazine had an ad for Negative Population Growth this month. I would think you’d be all over that, not replacement immigration.
    http://www.npg.org

  218. k-dog December 13, 2011 at 2:39 am #

    As the Traitor W.F Buckley said, the first few hundred names in the New Haven phonebook could do better. Or Porn Film makers – at least they know how to keep to a budget.

    I used to watch W.F when he had his TV show sometimes.
    Good humor Vlad – The chances of beating me out in the first few hundred is only 50/50 and porn film makers no how to do more than balance a budget.

  219. progress2conserve December 13, 2011 at 2:40 am #

    Hee Haw and Giddy Up, Wage!!
    http://www.npg.org/
    That is the best and most excellent little website I believe I’ve ever seen.
    Thank you for bringing it to our attention.
    And ZPG for the United States is a far, far better idea than “replacement level” immigration.
    I don’t know how I’ve missed their website.
    It looks fairly new.
    I’ll look around tomorrow and see if I can join and send them some money.
    I can go back to bed now and sleep the blissful sleep of hope – or something, I’m getting carried away here.
    ZPG.org looks awesome.
    BTW, what’s Jill Stein’s position on immigration and population growth? I haven’t been able to find it in print anywhere.

  220. k-dog December 13, 2011 at 2:42 am #

    it was suppose to be know how to do more than balance a budget.
    K-Dog – How about making Replacement Level Immigration – one of the planks in your platform?
    OK progress2conserve you want something more definitive from me on immigration so I’m going to throw you a bone.
    We can’t do anything without restoring the rule of law so every non-citizen has to get documented in a reasonable amount of time. Documents are renewable but you can’t work without them and you had better get them. Employers who employ guest workers report all employees and pay a tax for each guest worker they employ or go to jail. The tax rate is designed to give American workers a fair shake at getting a job in their native country and to account for the drain on social services. A ‘town meeting’ about this is essential the people get the final say.

  221. progress2conserve December 13, 2011 at 2:48 am #

    NPG.org, not ZPG – My mistake.
    Awesome! Send money if you’ve got it!
    Give time if you don’t.

  222. k-dog December 13, 2011 at 3:01 am #

    Exactly – the system is so corrupt the only way to restore order is a sneak attack.

  223. k-dog December 13, 2011 at 3:22 am #

    Since you posted she who shall not be named’s website I’ll be looking at it over in the next few days thanks.
    I have to tell you though I really don’t think the green party takes things seriously enough or spends enough time thinking through the complex issues we face in our fast paced post-postmodern world. They seem superficial and caught in a straitjacket of rhetoric to me.
    But I have an open mind so I’ll take a look.

  224. jeloughrey December 13, 2011 at 3:34 am #

    Brilliant entry, Jim. I would be ROFL if not for realizing the more prudent response is HFS (Is that a recognized acronym? If not, you can probably figure it out). At least Krugman finally uttered the “D” word today–perhaps reality is finally filtering into the mainstream consciousness, but I’m not holding my breath. A friend recently characterized Obama as “intellectually masturbating while the rest of us suffer.” I think that pretty well sums up the disconnect between the one percent and the rest of us.

  225. tegmark December 13, 2011 at 3:44 am #

    It’s no that the Man Brain – the Mind – the Processor – the Observer ((the Inquirer ?) notice how many different terms must be used to just delimit what we are talking about) is an “Independent Variable” (although it can be), but it is the Only Variable, the only entity that seems to exist. You can create a model of Mind and an abstract external reality that exists independent of the mind, but at this point we are in pure fantasy, pure metaphysics. So if you believe in the reality of external reality, (along with space, time, matter, memories, other people, other minds), then why not believe in any other fantasy item ? why not in rocks being alive and thinking, etc. Then my theory of just inventing anything, create anything, be as contradictory and imaginative as possible is just as good.
    Beware, the Man Brain as understood in my interpretation (what a joke of an interpretation! all attacks are welcome, don’t worry!) is the set of all Man Brains of a civilization considered as a single entity, a single instance of a given design of Man Brain. In fact our reality principle and the perception of external reality and the extension of reality immersed in an objective – external space time is completely due to apparently independent mind brains reciprocally confirming collectivity the same interactions, creating a generalized consensus along with the memory and patterns discovered, giving the impression of a real objective reality: nothing further from the truth, just because our particular Man Brain design is designed in such a way as to be repeated millions of times and occupying different points in space and time, different experiences of each Man Brain, and the communications amongst them doesn’t make that design any more real then a single Man Brain design that doesn’t need communication with other instances of itself. It is just Matter (matter talking to itself, interacting with itself) organized and subdivided in any number of possible ways, divided in trillions of mind brains communicating and independent, not divided at all, disjoint, large, trillions of very different Man Brains communicating some bits and some not, small, etc. you can imagine a Man Brain that is just a gas (but information transfers amongst the cells or atoms or transistors or circuits is present), etc.
    So BRANIUM simply defines everything and anything a new Man Brain, nay, a Mind Brain (as Man is just one design of trillions of possible designs), a new processor, everything is a possible brain.
    So as you see the abstraction levels can increase, it becomes difficult to explore…
    (Anyone understand anything of all of that insanity above ? just wondering…)
    TOBOR THE EIGHT MAN

  226. Vlad Krandz December 13, 2011 at 3:47 am #

    They are a united people and their goverment actually works for them to some extent at least. The social capital is much higher than here. We have no such unity even among Whites what to speak of all the others. We need guns far more than they do.
    Yes they’ve gone thru cycles – some of them quite warlike as have we. But they are still there after thousands of years and many dynasties, regimes, and Kingdoms. We will not be. That’s the difference and that’s the power of a common ethne and the weakness of its lack.
    Fear of guns if a fear of your own masculinity. In many ways, you are like a woman.

  227. tegmark December 13, 2011 at 3:48 am #

    Reference
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177509
    Some corrections for your thesis:
    It’s NOT that the Man Brain – the Mind – the Processor – the Observer ((the Inquirer ?) notice how many different terms must be used to just delimit what we are talking about) is an “Independent Variable” (although it can be), but it is the Only Variable, the only entity that seems to exist.

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Chen Ruihan is such a man. won two men’s love. anyway. Can Pathwalker. Man wearing a pair of small training began less than half the number of shoes. At that time his heart would like to just want to get. but the heart of childhood. the foot does not feel kind of trapped. how to catch up in the crowd in the train is not late for that? (And the News Finance) Wen Hsiao-pei. it is not simple. but the people who read. in the clerk’s instigation a hot head does not discount the season to buy new.” the sound. in the end is deliberately missing his shoes or have another new pair of shoes to come up with a sub-plan. then put kiosks in these hair hand. their feelings have been like a pair of naked bought a three-year high heels.See this article in the foot before you look at what shoes to wear. play from the people who can play ambiguous. go home you’ll regret it. Has maintained a friendship after Lianrenweiman feelings. a green energy designer. feeling old. Can Pathwalker. wearing less than half the number of running shoes. let me headache. you can treasure for many years the first two-out appearance. take a lot of road. how do you go to ran a world record? (And the News Finance) The characters are making it into a middle class. even if over the age of 25 is “old” white-collar workers. shoes? High heels? Or a nice pair of shoes? And my feet wearing a pair of simple rest and cheap flat shoes. written by her powerful but not stiff. most of this month you will it as worth the fare impulse shopping. we are four weeks to wearing white shoes sealed. Wearing high heels. this shoe will be easy since it is cheap and bad. (And the News Finance) For now the workplace. that high heels are not so nice. behind the sound issued from time to time. let me headache. (And the News Finance) Wen Hsiao-pei’s story. This shoe is made of plastic. did not bring her any harm. desperate singled out strong opponents. This shoe is made of plastic. of course. only know wear it on the concrete floor will be issued. Has maintained a friendship after Lianrenweiman feelings. I would jump wildly chaotic. it may rain today. looks very ugly to beautiful The next day the other will not wear slippers. So I have been eager to grow their hurry. a good appearance. because I would think: when the time’s own idea. she was stubborn on the business market with their first line against the most difficult . can not wear the next day he louis vuitton Travel for women give us back a new pair of shoes. they immediately went to the store to buy a pair of slippers. but the idea of ??no longer worn. how to catch up in the crowd in the train is not late for that? (And the News Finance) Wen Hsiao-pei. put it in my friends shoes in a variety of beautiful. that increased the sense of what must be very beautiful. a good appearance. behind the sound issued from time to time. a good appearance. (And the News Finance) Just graduated not long like a girl. but louis vuitton men heart of childhood. easy feeling better than anything else. (And the News Finance) Old shoes. shoes? High heels? Or a nice pair of shoes? And my feet wearing a pair of simple rest and cheap flat shoes. After the parents on how to explain. to live their own powerful . ambiguous play. the use of complex networks of relationships to maximize their own interests of the team leader. but it is lightweight louis vuitton Handbags convenient. until the man finally understood why to find their heart. but every job is a relatively long process. rightly rejected the text Xiaopei girls heart. Perhaps like the kind of shoes to wear when it rains because it probably looks a bit like that the shoes worn by adults. And children playing around or time to put their shoes out of chaos after the mad run again doubled home. this shoe will be easy since it is cheap and bad. easy feeling better than anything else. hey It Shoubu embittered. Man wearing a pair of small training began less than half the number of shoes. the girl became Mature. Of course. wear clothing with full foo
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    Reply   |   Report abuse                                        

  229. old69 December 13, 2011 at 4:57 am #

    “And now, alas, at Christmas time, the world has gotten a margin call and needs to fork over a whole lot of collateral in order to demonstrate that the global system of financial obligations is legit. Only the collateral turns out to be all this dubious paper, really just a bouquet of promises to pay in distant future Tuesdays for trillions of hamburgers today.”
    No, the collateral is mostly simply the worldwide stock of real estate: houses, skyscrapers, malls, etc. That is mostly the collateral and what is backing up everything. But real estate can only be exchanged so many times, can only be inflated up to a certain point, after you need other activities, other exchanges, other entities to exchange but at that point you run in the wall of the Technological Economy that has done away with the need of work to produce almost everything, has automated and optimized work out of existence. Therefore, governments worldwide should pay 800 dollars a month to a billion people, just to keep the consumer economy running. And furnish cheap rents, 200 dollars a month for a 2 bedroom house – apartment. This never will happen, then just prepare for millions of fights of everyone against everyone for millions of reasons…
    By the way, Europe isn’t even defined, delimited, is such a vague and ambiguous entity, no one knows where it starts or ends (from Iceland to Turkey ? or Russia ? how far in Russia ?, etc.) No one knows how they are tied together (are they ?) and even who they are Norway ? UK ? Switzerland ? Ukraine ? anyone ? Oh but Norway and UK don’t have the Euro, they are all very special little turds, etc. They think they are cool or simply hogs that want to keep their cash like Norway and Switzerland, what a huge real clusterph*k of a continent, so many languages, so many different cultures, they should simply be merged into the USA, the entire continent (except Russia) should just become a new USA state (state name could be NEW EUROPE or EAST VIRGINIA) and adapt the standard USA culture, language and system, since that is a standard that anyone can relate to, in fact the europeans relate much better to the USA then between themselves, go figure.
    And then the FED can print trillions and hand it over to them…

  230. old69 December 13, 2011 at 4:59 am #

    “And now, alas, at Christmas time, the world has gotten a margin call and needs to fork over a whole lot of collateral in order to demonstrate that the global system of financial obligations is legit. Only the collateral turns out to be all this dubious paper, really just a bouquet of promises to pay in distant future Tuesdays for trillions of hamburgers today.”
    No, the collateral is mostly simply the worldwide stock of real estate: houses, skyscrapers, malls, etc. That is mostly the collateral and what is backing up everything. But real estate can only be exchanged so many times, can only be inflated up to a certain point, after you need other activities, other exchanges, other entities to exchange but at that point you run in the wall of the Technological Economy that has done away with the need of work to produce almost everything, has automated and optimized work out of existence. Therefore, governments worldwide should pay 800 dollars a month to a billion people, just to keep the consumer economy running. And furnish cheap rents, 200 dollars a month for a 2 bedroom house – apartment. This never will happen, then just prepare for millions of fights of everyone against everyone for millions of reasons…
    By the way, Europe isn’t even defined, delimited, is such a vague and ambiguous entity, no one knows where it starts or ends (from Iceland to Turkey ? or Russia ? how far in Russia ?, etc.) No one knows how they are tied together (are they ?) and even who they are Norway ? UK ? Switzerland ? Ukraine ? anyone ? Oh but Norway and UK don’t have the Euro, they are all very special little turds, etc. They think they are cool or simply hogs that want to keep their cash like Norway and Switzerland, what a huge real clusterph*k of a continent, so many languages, so many different cultures, they should simply be merged into the USA, the entire continent (except Russia) should just become a new USA state (state name could be NEW EUROPE or EAST VIRGINIA) and adapt the standard USA culture, language and system, since that is a standard that anyone can relate to, in fact the europeans relate much better to the USA then between themselves, go figure.
    And then the FED can print trillions and hand it over to them…

  231. 8man December 13, 2011 at 5:17 am #

    From:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177509
    Western Civilization is not collapsing, we are getting richer and richer everyday, every new car produced, every new house built, every new of hundreds of products produced (sofas, beds, movies, books, blogs, techno music, etc.) creates a richer and richer society. We are going forward and getting richer everyday, suck it up dude and stop the doomster crap. We will enter an infinite resource society.
    TOBOR ATE MAN

  232. old69 December 13, 2011 at 5:28 am #

    Some small correction for San Jose Mommy and Alexandra, so they can copy it for their thesis on “Modifying the Fundamental Structure and Design of Minds and Brains and discovering the New Universes with new Laws of Physics that can be Perceived, Experienced and Invented”
    by THE APE
    Beware, the Man Brain as understood in my interpretation (what a joke of an interpretation! all attacks are welcome, don’t worry!) is the set of all Man Brains of a civilization considered as a single entity, a single instance of a given design of Man Brain. In fact our reality principle and the perception of external reality and the extension of reality immersed in an objective – external space time is completely due to apparently independent mind brains reciprocally confirming collectively the same interactions, creating a generalized consensus along with the memory and patterns discovered, giving the impression of a real objective reality: nothing further from the truth, just because our particular Man Brain design is designed in such a way as to be repeated millions of times and occupying different points in space and time, different experiences of each Man Brain, and the communications amongst them doesn’t make that design any more real then a single Man Brain design that doesn’t need communication with other instances of itself. It is just Matter (matter talking to itself, interacting with itself) organized and subdivided in any number of possible ways, divided in trillions of mind brains communicating and independent, not divided at all, disjoint, large, trillions of very different Man Brains communicating some bits and some not, small, etc. you can imagine a Man Brain that is just a gas (but information transfers amongst the cells or atoms or transistors or circuits is present), etc.

  233. messianicdruid December 13, 2011 at 7:19 am #

    “…rise up with “furious anger and righteous indignation”…wasn’t that how it went?”
    Careful there, they’ll start calling you “religious” or a “tea hatter”.

  234. messianicdruid December 13, 2011 at 7:46 am #

    “I’ve been to a lot of different countries. I’ve found that the older the culture, the more open they are about their belly and genital imperatives. If not in the letter of the law, then certainly within local traditions.”
    By “open” do you mean taboos are openly discussed and consequences understood by all members of the society? Even the leaders are expected to avoid them? Teachers {and preachers} of cultural imperatives are honored and serve as examples? Wickedness is not tolerated? The innocent are protected? Old is good? Who-da-thunk!

  235. messianicdruid December 13, 2011 at 7:48 am #

    “It just doesn’t work and now we’re repeating mistakes within the confines of mortal memory.”
    Don’t repeat the mistakes, repeat what works.

  236. Poet December 13, 2011 at 7:52 am #

    JHK sez:
    “The world has run out of money, that is credible money of the type that represents real wealth, and yet is up to its ears in paper representations of putative wealth-like stuff: mortgages, credit default swaps, Gold ETFs, synthetic CDOs, naked shorts, bonds of all sorts. And now, alas, at Christmas time, the world has gotten a margin call and needs to fork over a whole lot of collateral in order to demonstrate that the global system of financial obligations is legit.”
    ************
    FDR sez: (first Inaugural 03-04-33)
    “And yet our distress comes from no failure of substance. We are stricken by no plague of locusts. Compared with the perils which our forefathers conquered, because they believed and were not afraid, we have still much to be thankful for. Nature still offers her bounty and human efforts have multiplied it. Plenty is at our doorstep, but a generous use of it languishes in the very sight of the supply.
    Primarily, this is because the rulers of the exchange of mankind’s goods have failed, through their own stubbornness and their own incompetence, have admitted their failure, and have abdicated. Practices of the unscrupulous money changers stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men.
    True, they have tried. But their efforts have been cast in the pattern of an outworn tradition. Faced by failure of credit, they have proposed only the lending of more money. Stripped of the lure of profit by which to induce our people to follow their false leadership, they have resorted to exhortations, pleading tearfully for restored confidence. They only know the rules of a generation of self-seekers. They have no vision, and when there is no vision the people perish.
    Yes, the money changers have fled from their high seats in the temple of our civilization. We may now restore that temple to the ancient truths. The measure of that restoration lies in the extent to which we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit.”
    ***************
    He followed that with this statemnent:
    “Happiness lies not in the mere possession of money; it lies in the joy of achievement, in the thrill of creative effort. The joy, the moral stimulation of work no longer must be forgotten in the mad chase of evanescent profits. These dark days, my friends, will be worth all they cost us if they teach us that our true destiny is not to be ministered unto but to minister to ourselves, to our fellow men.”
    ************
    We still have not learned this lesson, but not for lack of having it presented and written for us by our history. Today the corrupt money changers are determined to hold on to their “high seats in the temple of our civilization” even if by doing so they must tear down that temple to its very foundations. The passivity of the general population in the wake of such corruption and arrogance of power is the real ill that ails humanity.

  237. 8man December 13, 2011 at 7:52 am #

    I am a 21st Century Schizoid Man …
    Song by King Crimson 1969
    Songwriters: Robert Fripp, Michael Giles, Greg Lake, Ian Mcdonald
    Cat’s foot, iron claw
    Neuro-surgeons scream for more
    At paranoia’s poison door
    21st century schizoid man
    Blood rack, barbed wire
    Politicians’ funeral pyre
    Innocents raped with napalm fire
    21st century schizoid man
    21st century
    21st century
    21st century
    21st century schizoid man
    Death seed, blind man’s greed
    Poets starving, children bleed
    Nothing he’s got he really needs
    21st century schizoid man
    21st century
    21st century schizoid man
    21st century schizoid man
    Welcome to the 21st century

  238. charliefoxtrot December 13, 2011 at 8:23 am #

    sorry, i don t know how to post a link…i googled ‘jesse ventura conspiracy theory’, then “clicked” conspiracies (touchscreen)…within the article, there are several blue links; i followed them…i know he seems like a nutcase, but i remembered seeing his show once before, maybe a year or two ago, that was talking about a homeland sec program that recruits people in certain fields- emts, deputies, etc- to “keep a watch for certain elements, and report back”…i m pretty sure i know at least one…wannabe cop, applied several times, real “patriotic” whacko- you know the type…

  239. charliefoxtrot December 13, 2011 at 8:29 am #

    prog- just out of curiosity, where do you stand on sex-ed- think there s a place for it in school; or should kids just ‘learn’ from parents, peers, tv, etc…? cuz it seems like a central part of any discussion of population…

  240. lbendet December 13, 2011 at 8:47 am #

    Watch out: The Neo-Cons are coming, the Neo-Cons are coming!
    From the mind of Newt: Newt has already told us that his pick for Sec. of State is none other than our old favorite Yosemite Sam, John Bolton. That’s enough to keep you up at night–can you imagine the most undiplomatic war-monger as leader of US diplomats!!
    Yep, they are licking their chops over Iran–you can see the drool forming from their mouths and Syria and Russia and China are moving their chess pieces around in response.
    Liz Cheney is making noise about leaving Iraq, an agreement that her father’s administration signed into agreement, which of course she won’t address.–What will the privatized contractors do for money?
    –Gots to keep the war machine feeding on the taxpayers’ money going for profit!

  241. charliefoxtrot December 13, 2011 at 9:23 am #

    go to infoclearinghouse.info, there s an article from last night about american troops on the syrian border…says us media were “requested” not to report on the story til today

  242. ozone December 13, 2011 at 9:31 am #

    Perhaps the privatized “contractors” in Baghdad will become trapped behind their blast-walls, Dien Bien Phu-style.
    This amazing hubris needs an undeniable/unavoidable lesson. There is no honor in these murderous “occupations” (in either sense).
    Plus, it really is time to get over the glorification of the military as the zenith of our “culture” and “civilization”. Guess who told us that it was? Those who want to control everyone and steal/underpay for the products of your labor. Think about it. It’s a vampiric obscenity, as fascism always is…

  243. greyghost05 December 13, 2011 at 9:33 am #

    It also allows the full use of the US military to persue the enemy anywhere anytime. Before Starship Troopers there was “Fritz the Cat”. Picture the scene from the movie when the rioting crows are so out of control that the only sane solution is to call in an airstrike. Now picture F-16’s from the NYANG rolling in over OWS and the tanks of napalm gliding in on target ! Oh yeah ! Bucu crispy critters !
    IF THIS IS PASSED WE IS FUCKED….BIG TIME !
    Maybe they will just use the drones to pick off the leadership of any resistance. The same drones that are smoking rats in the sand are also flying along our northern border. Patroling Lake Erie looking for threats coming across from the “Great White North”.
    If any of you want to see first hand what any resistance will have to face, go to youtube and check out things like FILR, AH-64 or AC-130. You can view videos taken in the sand box and the ‘stan of action at night. There is nowhere to hide. Your body heat stands out like a white dot on a dark backround. There is a AC-130 video where they are smoking rats as fast as they can aquire the target. 105 mm or 20 mm from who knows how far out. The AH-64 stuff is equally impressive.
    RESISTANCE IS FUTILE ! BOHICA !

  244. greyghost05 December 13, 2011 at 10:18 am #

    That was a great link and well worth the time to watch.
    Hopefully R P will get the job in 2012 and after that we’ll just have to see what shakes out.
    RON PAUL 2012….BECAUSE THE REST SUCK !

  245. ozone December 13, 2011 at 10:18 am #

    Okay the Paul K. article that several have mentioned:
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29957.htm
    (Excerpt):
    December 12, 2011 “New York Times” — It’s time to start calling the current situation what it is: a depression. True, it’s not a full replay of the Great Depression, but that’s cold comfort. -PK
    ———————
    Not a “full replay” of the GD, eh, Paul?
    Let’s face it squarely; it’ll be much worse.
    The population is MUCH larger, cheap energy MUCH scarcer, (per capita), and gov’ts everywhere are squealing that they haven’t the fiscal resources to provide anything for their respective publics. What in the world does that equation get you, Paul? THE END OF GROWTH and MASSIVE PRIVATION. Christ, talk about chained to a paradigm!
    He goes on to talk about the rise of the fascista, as if it were a strange and unexpected result of economic collapse. I got a newsflash for ya, Paulie: These are the exact conditions most favorable to despots, spouting, “…strength in unity and group-think; individual thought is dangerous to the common cause!”
    He describes what’s happening [politically and economically] in Hungary. Change a few names and push the time-frame forward a bit, and there we are. Does he see this? Again, being blind to the motivations behind the “economic principles” his job depends on, I’d have to say, probably not.
    (If it’s a veiled warning, he’s got it veiled inside a sensory-deprivation tank.)
    Let’s please not forget that although the names of the political entities in this country have not changed; those that they are beholden to certainly have. (At least the pretending is over anyway.) It’s all about promoting feudalism now; how that gets done will determine it’s success or failure. Crumbs and table-scraps, or bullies and bullets? That will determine the amount of resistance to “the program”.

  246. progress2conserve December 13, 2011 at 10:22 am #

    CF,
    Regarding sex ed – this is what I posted last week in response to Vlad and the Neo Conservative Alleged Christian Preacher/Politicians –
    Who tend to thunder from on high:
    “Thou shalt not commit abortion for any reason, even in the case of rape or a horrible defective fetus.”
    ===================
    So, here’s what makes sense to me, as a member of American society – and as a father of two sons who have managed to make it to adulthood despite some of the effects OF that society:
    1.Excellent birth control for all.
    2.Excellent birth control education* for all at puberty, at the latest.
    3. Excellent availability of pregnancy tests, morning after pills, and RU-486 for the first 6 weeks of pregnancy.
    4. No abortions after that – except in cases of severe fetal deformities or when the life of the mother is in danger.
    *Birth control education – I think this is a better term than sex education. We don’t need to spend a month teaching 9th grade boys about the Filipino Tubes and how they connect to the Oracle of Ovary, or whatever.
    Boys, especially, just need a short condensed course on birth control, as follows:
    1. If you get someone pregnant, you have possibly ruined three lives – your girlfriend’s, the baby’s, and YOURS!”
    2. Cover your stump before you hump!

  247. greyghost05 December 13, 2011 at 10:32 am #

    Rip,
    They’re Aussies ! But did you notice all the weapons references were about edged weapons. Here at home it would’ve broken down to a discussion of what type of weapon and which caliber do you prefer.
    My pref’s run to 12 gauge BB’s + 4 or .45 in 230 JHP. They have to get thru the door and past the German Shepard first.
    Phil

  248. Patrizia December 13, 2011 at 10:32 am #

    I do not understand much of economy, but I know mathematics well enough to understand that paper money gets value from the work and the goods that people produce.
    And the fact that you have astronomic debts means just one thing: there is too much money compared to the work and good produced.
    Either you reduce the value of the currency and you earn a lot of it, or you reduce the value of your work and goods and you have little of it.
    This is the only sustainable mean to go on.
    Thinking that you can print as much money as you like and that its value is almost the same is a dream that cost USA a lot of wars and will cost a lot more, if they want to go on on this pattern.
    Because to make people outside the US to accept your currency either you stop printing it, or you fight and oblige them.
    Angela Merkel has, in my opinion, the merit to have said the only right thing that has to be said: if you want to be credible you have to spend as much as you earn, not a penny more.
    And since most Europeans enjoyed spending more than what they produced, now they have to do the only thing you do when you are overweight: diet.
    As sad, as terrible it can look.
    And if that means to be a Nazi, then being one is a good thing.

  249. ozone December 13, 2011 at 10:39 am #

    Pretty funny, P2C.
    Practically speaking, I do believe you’ve landed a 15″ H-E round right on the bridge of the HMS: “Damn-Foolish Notions”.
    Smart and sensible; that’s why such a thing is unlikely to be implemented. ;o) (Things change drastically enough, with enough acknowledgement of reality, there might be hope for such sensible ideas.)
    Hey, Folks, don’t forget to spay or neuter your boyfriends and girlfriends! -Bob the Barker

  250. greyghost05 December 13, 2011 at 10:46 am #

    C F. There was never any Conspiroacy ! Just a plan and it’s nearing completion.
    As for the camp thing. Anyone who has served in the armed forces had a threat evaluation done on them when they ETS’d. Mine was done in 1968 so I hope if it does go down it will be FEMA Lite. Or maybe it will just be a cost effective termination.
    Good luck where ever you are.

  251. newworld December 13, 2011 at 10:56 am #

    You would not object to an Asian, African or Jewish person fighting back against the genocide being perpetrated via mass immigration and forced intergration, so why do you spew such vitriol at the polite well spoken real Vlad?
    Anyway rumor has it that Iran is conducting military exercises to ramp up the price of oil.

  252. Rhino December 13, 2011 at 11:05 am #

    “This discussion thread lost a passionate advocate for population growth, to his own choice of self-exile, last week.”
    Losing this passionate advocate is a good thing and a bad thing. It’s a good thing because sites like this serve as a platform for destructive ideas and, as we’ve seen repeatedly throughout history, bad ideas are just as likely to take root and propagate as good ones.
    It’s a bad thing that this “passionate advocate” is gone because these bad ideas need to be confronted: someone famous once said that sunlight and fresh air are the best disinfectants. Better to have such stuff out in the open where it can be argued and a site like this is as good a place as any.
    There’s a place in life for common sense. The problem is that some people seem to be immune to it, the so-called “educated” being every bit as likely to shield themselves from plain and simple truth with layers of ideology and illogic as the less educated. How did we all end up where we are after all if not by following the leadership and dictates of our elites?

  253. WestCoast December 13, 2011 at 11:07 am #

    Newworld,
    You might be interested in the study of group identity at the Occidental Quarterly.
    Can’t say I agree with it but it brings up some interesting aspects of economics as the basis of ‘vitriol”.

  254. k-dog December 13, 2011 at 11:11 am #

    rise up with “furious anger and righteous indignation”…wasn’t that how it went?

    It went exactly the way you read it. It is original k-dog. If I quote something there will be quotation marks. Most of the time I give the source and I may format the quote as well. Like this:
    “Rise like Lions after slumber
    In unvanquishable number,
    Shake your chains to earth like dew
    Which in sleep had fallen on you
    Ye are many – they are few.”

    Percy Bysshe Shelley – The Mask of Anarchy
    Usually I will just give a name.
    k-dog for president.

  255. wagelaborer December 13, 2011 at 11:27 am #

    You’re welcome, Prog.
    I don’t know Jill Stein’s position on immigration. But I know that she is anti-war, pro civil liberties, pro-rail, pro-environment, pro-choice and more.

  256. wagelaborer December 13, 2011 at 11:39 am #

    OK, I get it. You’re still mad at me for saying you’re not serious, so you say the Green Party isn’t serious.
    But you offered to work for dog biscuits, and the Green Party has spent years out petitioning, campaigning, hashing out positions, fighting to get ballot access, fighting to get into debates, and all the other hoops that serious parties have to jump through to try to challenge the two corporate parties.
    Because if you had a clue, you wouldn’t say that the Green Party doesn’t take “things seriously enough or spends enough time thinking through the complex issues we face in our fast paced post-postmodern world”.
    You mean things like peak oil, corporate domination, endless war and destruction of our environment? Things that the Green Party was founded to oppose? Things that our candidates run on?
    Are complex issues like that only to be discussed at Clusterfuck? While “serious” (i.e. corporate sponsered) candidates talk about “serious” problems, like HPV vaccines, and “vote” on how old the Earth is, and whether it is getting warmer?
    I don’t think that you’re serious, so I’ll let you slide. But if you really believe that only corporate sponsered candidates can be taken seriously, then I’m seriously disappointed in you.
    Like the archdruid says, paradigm shift or perish.
    Either people refuse to take part in the endless farce that our “election cycle” has become, and really get involved in changing our society, or we perish.
    Because the parade of preening puppets we are presented with to “choose from” should be insulting to any thinking, aware person.

  257. DeeJones December 13, 2011 at 11:43 am #

    Poet: Thanks for posting that.
    Reminds me of the old saying: Those that don’t learn history are doomed to repeat it ( or something like that).
    🙁

  258. k-dog December 13, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    Anyway, I’m already looking forward to the nominating conventions of next summer, when angry mobs of the swindled and desperate descend on Charlotte and Tampa like ravaging locusts. Won’t that be a wake up call!

    This assumes that the swindled and desperate will still have sufficient funds to descend like locusts or anything else. It also assumes that the Media will pay attention to them once they get there which in our new reality-optional nation carries no guarantee at all.
    American newspapers are now extinct and the POX news is as skilled as a 14 year old with a new copy of Photoshop in misrepresenting what really happens out there.
    When a tree falls in the forest and there is nobody around to hear it the tree just falls down. That’s all.
    Things are moving quickly and any gathering in Charlotte or Tampa of tents, t-shirts and tattoos may me labeled a seditious meeting and dealt with appropriately.
    And now I’ll eat one of my Christmas Brownies.
    k-dog for president.

  259. wagelaborer December 13, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    Yeah, what he said! I quote that speech all the time.
    We didn’t have to choose to bail out the moneylenders. Faced with a failure of credit, we could have let them fail, and turned to a different monetary system, as the Green Party calls for, and Dennis Kucinich has introduced into Congress.
    But, no, the serious candidates mouth platitudes about workers living within their means, while they pour sixteen trillion dollars into the pockets of the wealthy.
    That’s the choice that these monsters have made.
    http://wagelaborer.blogspot.com/2010/07/plague-of-locusts.html

  260. wagelaborer December 13, 2011 at 11:59 am #

    Yeah, change the names, and the location, but it seems pretty current to me.
    Criminalization of dissent, while financial fraud goes highly rewarded and unprosecuted, control of the news media, (good article on Gary Webb), frankly farcial and fraudulent elections, militarization of the police, open lawlessness by the elite, with draconian sentences for the poor, lionization of the military, with open imperialism…I don’t think we need to play it forward. We’ve got it now.

  261. wagelaborer December 13, 2011 at 12:10 pm #

    From another of my favorite books- They Thought They Were Free..
    “What no one seemed to notice,” said a colleague of mine, a philologist, “was the ever widening gap, after 1933, between the government and the people. Just think how very wide this gap was to begin with, here in Germany. And it became always wider. You know, it doesn’t make people close to their government to be told that this is a people’s government, a true democracy, or to be enrolled in civilian defense, or even to vote. All this has little, really nothing, to do with knowing one is governing.
    “What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.
    “This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.
    “You will understand me when I say that my Middle High German was my life. It was all I cared about. I was a scholar, a specialist. Then, suddenly, I was plunged into all the new activity, as the university was drawn into the new situation; meetings, conferences, interviews, ceremonies, and, above all, papers to be filled out, reports, bibliographies, lists, questionnaires. And on top of that were the demands in the community, the things in which one had to, was ‘expected to’ participate that had not been there or had not been important before. It was all rigmarole, of course, but it consumed all one’s energies, coming on top of the work one really wanted to do. You can see how easy it was, then, not to think about fundamental things. One had no time.”
    “Those,” I said, “are the words of my friend the baker. ‘One had no time to think. There was so much going on.’”
    “Your friend the baker was right,” said my colleague. “The dictatorship, and the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting. It provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway. I do not speak of your ‘little men,’ your baker and so on; I speak of my colleagues and myself, learned men, mind you. Most of us did not want to think about fundamental things and never had. There was no need to. Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about—we were decent people—and kept us so busy with continuous changes and ‘crises’ and so fascinated, yes, fascinated, by the machinations of the ‘national enemies,’ without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. Unconsciously, I suppose, we were grateful. Who wants to think?
    “To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.
    “How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice—‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’ But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have. And everyone counts on that might.
    “Your ‘little men,’ your Nazi friends, were not against National Socialism in principle. Men like me, who were, are the greater offenders, not because we knew better (that would be too much to say) but because we sensed better. Pastor Niemöller spoke for the thousands and thousands of men like me when he spoke (too modestly of himself) and said that, when the Nazis attacked the Communists, he was a little uneasy, but, after all, he was not a Communist, and so he did nothing; and then they attacked the Socialists, and he was a little uneasier, but, still, he was not a Socialist, and he did nothing; and then the schools, the press, the Jews, and so on, and he was always uneasier, but still he did nothing. And then they attacked the Church, and he was a Churchman, and he did something—but then it was too late.”
    “Yes,” I said.
    “You see,” my colleague went on, “one doesn’t see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.
    “Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, ‘everyone’ is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there would be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’
    “And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can’t prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don’t know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have.
    “But your friends are fewer now. Some have drifted off somewhere or submerged themselves in their work. You no longer see as many as you did at meetings or gatherings. Informal groups become smaller; attendance drops off in little organizations, and the organizations themselves wither. Now, in small gatherings of your oldest friends, you feel that you are talking to yourselves, that you are isolated from the reality of things. This weakens your confidence still further and serves as a further deterrent to—to what? It is clearer all the time that, if you are going to do anything, you must make an occasion to do it, and then you are obviously a troublemaker. So you wait, and you wait.
    “But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.
    “And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.
    “You have gone almost all the way yourself. Life is a continuing process, a flow, not a succession of acts and events at all. It has flowed to a new level, carrying you with it, without any effort on your part. On this new level you live, you have been living more comfortably every day, with new morals, new principles. You have accepted things you would not have accepted five years ago, a year ago, things that your father, even in Germany, could not have imagined.
    “Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven’t done (for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing). You remember those early meetings of your department in the university when, if one had stood, others would have stood, perhaps, but no one stood. A small matter, a matter of hiring this man or that, and you hired this one rather than that. You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.
    “What then? You must then shoot yourself. A few did. Or ‘adjust’ your principles. Many tried, and some, I suppose, succeeded; not I, however. Or learn to live the rest of your life with your shame. This last is the nearest there is, under the circumstances, to heroism: shame. Many Germans became this poor kind of hero, many more, I think, than the world knows or cares to know.”
    I said nothing. I thought of nothing to say.
    “I can tell you,” my colleague went on, “of a man in Leipzig, a judge. He was not a Nazi, except nominally, but he certainly wasn’t an anti-Nazi. He was just—a judge. In ’42 or ’43, early ’43, I think it was, a Jew was tried before him in a case involving, but only incidentally, relations with an ‘Aryan’ woman. This was ‘race injury,’ something the Party was especially anxious to punish. In the case at bar, however, the judge had the power to convict the man of a ‘nonracial’ offense and send him to an ordinary prison for a very long term, thus saving him from Party ‘processing’ which would have meant concentration camp or, more probably, deportation and death. But the man was innocent of the ‘nonracial’ charge, in the judge’s opinion, and so, as an honorable judge, he acquitted him. Of course, the Party seized the Jew as soon as he left the courtroom.”
    “And the judge?”
    “Yes, the judge. He could not get the case off his conscience—a case, mind you, in which he had acquitted an innocent man. He thought that he should have convicted him and saved him from the Party, but how could he have convicted an innocent man? The thing preyed on him more and more, and he had to talk about it, first to his family, then to his friends, and then to acquaintances. (That’s how I heard about it.) After the ’44 Putsch they arrested him. After that, I don’t know.”
    I said nothing.
    “Once the war began,” my colleague continued, “resistance, protest, criticism, complaint, all carried with them a multiplied likelihood of the greatest punishment. Mere lack of enthusiasm, or failure to show it in public, was ‘defeatism.’ You assumed that there were lists of those who would be ‘dealt with’ later, after the victory. Goebbels was very clever here, too. He continually promised a ‘victory orgy’ to ‘take care of’ those who thought that their ‘treasonable attitude’ had escaped notice. And he meant it; that was not just propaganda. And that was enough to put an end to all uncertainty.
    “Once the war began, the government could do anything ‘necessary’ to win it; so it was with the ‘final solution of the Jewish problem,’ which the Nazis always talked about but never dared undertake, not even the Nazis, until war and its ‘necessities’ gave them the knowledge that they could get away with it. The people abroad who thought that war against Hitler would help the Jews were wrong. And the people in Germany who, once the war had begun, still thought of complaining, protesting, resisting, were betting on Germany’s losing the war. It was a long bet. Not many made it.”

  262. rippedthunder December 13, 2011 at 12:18 pm #

    Wecome aboard Wage! However I think you have been on the list for quite some time now! Keep up the fight! Uh-Oh Red flag!

  263. Widespreadpanic7 December 13, 2011 at 12:19 pm #

    On BBC saw some of the protesters interviewed trying to shut down the port in Seattle.
    One dude was pretty old but still had the requisite ponytail. He looked like he might have been part of Mario Savio’s free speech movement in Berkeley back in ’59, and all protests after that everywhere, a pro, if you will. Of course the last thing colleges are interested in now is free speech. You have to be very, very careful what you say on campus so as not to offend the numerous aggrieved and protected minority groups. Mario Savio wouldn’t fit in at Berkely nowadays, or else would be called a fascist.
    BBC didn’t take the protesters too seriously, calling them unfocused and callow. The next story was about the rigged elections in the Congo, and subsequent real, bloody internecine civil warfare, not the make believe kind.
    –WSP7

  264. Widespreadpanic7 December 13, 2011 at 12:24 pm #

    Hey RipT, what list?
    The sh-t list?
    –WSP7

  265. ozone December 13, 2011 at 12:24 pm #

    Hey now, Wage,
    I didn’t say it would be a long period of time before these symptoms became acute here.
    I give it til juuuuust after the next [s]election.
    (BTW, if it should happen to be the Newt, lock and load; the agenda won’t be hidden beneath any veneers then. Obama’s pretending as hard as he can right now; we’ll see what legislation he’ll be “forced” to implement if he gets in again.))

  266. rippedthunder December 13, 2011 at 12:29 pm #

    Hi Phil,Yea yer right. I am not familier with aussie gun laws. I’m partial to the 7.62. I had G. Shepards for years. Beautiful dogs. Now I have yorkys. Just as good alarm dogs plus they kill mice. They don’t shed and leave me a little more room on the bed. They don’t eat much either. I actually like my dogs more then most of the people I meet. They don’t ask much of me just water, kibbles, and an ear scratch! K-Dog for President!

  267. rippedthunder December 13, 2011 at 12:34 pm #

    Howdy WSP, the watch list. I know u and wage butt heads but I think we all can really get along in here. Except for a certain un-named few. Right-left-up-down who really cares? I figure there are a lot of forward thinkers in here and that is why I waste so much time on the CFN!

  268. rippedthunder December 13, 2011 at 12:44 pm #

    Hi CFT, to post a link open two browser windows, While looking at the site you want to post highlight the address bar.Press the control key and the C key at the same time. That will copy the address. Go back to your post on CFN and press the control key and the V key. That will paste your link into your post. Give it a try. I hope this helps. RT

  269. wagelaborer December 13, 2011 at 12:47 pm #

    Yesterday a good ‘ol boy, complete with coveralls, a farmseed cap, and a southern drawl, strolled into my yard with a twenty-something Arab boy who spoke broken English. WTF??? How did these two hook up? And why?
    They wanted to buy a goat, or my sheep Harriet. NO.
    But it creeped me out. And my emergency backup dogs(now my only dogs) barked briefly and then followed them, wagging their tails.
    I want another German Shepherd. I just don’t want to go through the chicken-killing part.
    My main dog was a great watchdog, until she got so old. I really miss her.

  270. Widespreadpanic7 December 13, 2011 at 12:53 pm #

    Ok RipT because if it was the shit list I’ve been on one person or another’s my whole life. I’ve found it doesn’t take much for people to hate you, a word here, a look there, or maybe you have a new truck, or a nice little farm, or a good pension, or money in the bank etc. Any of those, and a million other things, are grounds enough.
    Well, time to go out back & split some wood.
    –WSP7

  271. wagelaborer December 13, 2011 at 12:55 pm #

    Well, I think that is why they put Obama in, and will leave him in for four more years.
    Americans prefer the veneer. Bush/Cheney’s open, sneering fascism perturbed our fantasies of a free country, so they stuck in a sociopath able to lie with a smile, thus reassuring the masses of our country’s essential goodness.
    It’s working well. It doesn’t matter how much farther right Obama moves the agenda, you still get people who swear that the Republicans would be much worse.
    So they’ll leave him in.

  272. messianicdruid December 13, 2011 at 1:12 pm #

    today’s new word – rehypothecation
    http://www.harveyorgan.blogspot.com

  273. k-dog December 13, 2011 at 1:15 pm #

    One dude was pretty old but still had the requisite ponytail.
    That wasn’t mine. Ponytails don’t count up here unless they are at least a foot and a half long and fluffy. Like mine.
    I have fun with mine. Guys see my blonde hair when I’m driving and go ga-ga. They sneak into my blind spot and lurk. Then they’ll creep up and when they see me and embarrass themselves they quick take the first left or speed up quick.
    I’m tall and masculine but that gets lost on them when they go ga-ga 100 feet behind me.
    I wonder if it was Rick.

  274. messianicdruid December 13, 2011 at 1:17 pm #

    Yes, the only way those clowns can get any traction is to start quoting RP.

  275. rippedthunder December 13, 2011 at 1:31 pm #

    Maul or wedge?

  276. k-dog December 13, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

    rehypothecation
    I’m not at the site yet but I think I learned this last week.
    Is it when you have a loan out on someone (they owe you money) and you use their assets as collateral so that you can take out a loan from someone else?
    Seemed ludicrous to me.
    Paradigm shift or perish.

  277. rippedthunder December 13, 2011 at 1:38 pm #

    K-Dog are you a golden retreiver?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkqVizqGwmY

  278. k-dog December 13, 2011 at 1:51 pm #

    I think there is some of that in the mix. Color is about right but my hair is longer and I can reach the pedals.
    k-dog for president

  279. Widespreadpanic7 December 13, 2011 at 2:00 pm #

    RipT
    Collins Axe
    Collins Maul
    –WSP7

  280. greyghost05 December 13, 2011 at 2:06 pm #

    Rip,
    Australia was totally dis-armed back in the 90’s. There was a guy who went nuts and shot up a Micky D’s greasing 37 people. In the aftermath the government then decided that the general population shouldn’t be allowed to own any firearms at all. Prior to that they had banned all military calibers and hand guns. That was in the late 70’s or so. That’s when their violent crime stats jumped as they did in the UK. And just about anywhere you have restrictive gun laws or a disarmed population.
    It was said that during the disarmament that help was provided by the USA in the form of the USMC. I never looked it up to verify. Nothing would surprise me though.
    The sad fact is that there is a plan and the wrong side is working it hard. That’s why they ignore Ron Paul in the press and on TV as much as possible. He isn’t part of the solution. Why wasn’t anyone in the media screaming on TV & Radio about the implications of Senate Bill 1867. This could cause the very end of Our Constitutional freedoms. Think about it do we as a nation want the Armed Forces doing traffic stops and checking for what ? Or do we want to see a repeat of the death camps of Hitlers time when all the subversives and enemies of the state were rounded up and dealt with.
    I’m 64 and have been through a lot. I would hate to think that I would be a candidate for a camp because of my faith, NRA membership or veteran status. Just knowing that a FEMA Camp run by Haliburton or Blackwater would be a lot less fun then one run by the BSA or Club Med.
    Stay Frosty
    Phil

  281. old69 December 13, 2011 at 2:17 pm #

    “And since most Europeans enjoyed spending more than what they produced, ”
    Hey patty, you didn’t understand anything of the problem: THERE IS NO LONGER ANY RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN WORK AND PRODUCTION! There is no linear old fashioned relationship between “hard work”, large number of workers, factories and the output of factories. It has been optimized, automated, everything has been greatly improved from the “production” point of view, you need very few people to do the work, few jobs, work is obsolete. Is that clear now ?
    Profits go sky high since you can produce all you want with fewer and fewer people, in all sectors, especially services, banks, tertiary with computers and all, it is easy to get great output with few workers.
    So no distribution of money through jobs, since jobs are no longer needed to produce, get the message. Hence, the governments must provide free salaries and cheap rents for all. OK ?
    The problem is “consumption” not production, we need consumers way more than producers since producing is very easy today, but to cosume you need to give out FREE SALARIES!
    Also the USA has been printing trillions of dollars from the FED for 4 years now, with very little inflation and very little devaluation of the dollar becasue all the old economic rules no longer apply. The inflation boggy man is no longer operating. So print trillions freely and give it out.

  282. James Hansen December 13, 2011 at 2:32 pm #

    I brought up Fukushima to see if people were aware how dangerous it is and it seems they don’t know and don’t care.It is not just affecting Japan, the air filters in cars on the west coast are already radioactive! Unlike Hiroshima where only a few pounds of U235 was used and turned into light, heat and shock wave, the MOX mixture in Fukushima will aerosol as burns, spreading everywhere continuously. There are towns with 20 times the radiation of Chernobyl and people are still living there.
    The Russians had a policy of evacuation and containment, the Japanese are dispersing radiation and staying in place.One small hydro-volcanic explosion and all 6 plants will abandoned and 1500 tons of hell will result in a global extinction event. Kinda makes the doom and gloom that Mr. Kunstler writes about like the Garden of Eden.

  283. Buck Stud December 13, 2011 at 2:34 pm #

    Nobody cries “Uncle” on the internet because minds are rarely changed – in any forum. To echo Q The Formalist, I enjoy the delivery as much or more than the content. Not what is said, but HOW it is said. A compromise of morals? Nah, just spreading “paradoxical debris to befuddle the timid” as a great man once wrote.

  284. ABSALOM December 13, 2011 at 2:40 pm #

    It’s pretty hilarious that a lot of folks here believe Ron Paul is the super politician we’ve been waiting for. He only parrots the things that most of the more intelligent outsiders have to say, and it seems he has this sort of “remember the good old days when Capitalism was pure and the market regulated itself?” mentality. Talk about shittin’ in one hand and wishin’ in the other to see which fills faster.
    I wonder if he realizes the corrupt and manipulative forces sailing the ship won’t tolerate him for long if there’s even an inkling of a chance he receives the GOP nod. He won’t. But aside from the fact he tells the truth, he forgets that even if he attains office, he’d spend his entire term fighting partisanship. His lofty goals of eliminating this and that would be met with the fiercest opposition from not only the other guys but his own team too, no?
    I could be way off base, but I don’t quite understand why people believe democracy still exists in the U.S.
    ABSALOM

  285. messianicdruid December 13, 2011 at 3:18 pm #

    “So print trillions freely and give it out.”
    Hey, that’s what they ARE doing, and its only making things incredibly worse, faster and faster.

  286. wagelaborer December 13, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

    Here’s testimony from a former prisoner on how our heroes treat people. Coming soon to the Homeland Battlefield.
    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v33/n24/mohammed-elgorani/diary
    Note that the nicer ones explain to him that they are merely doing a job.
    Jobs, jobs, jobs. Freedom, freedom, freedom.
    The two mantras that every talking head uses to keep americans compliant.

  287. messianicdruid December 13, 2011 at 3:22 pm #

    “I could be way off base, but I don’t quite understand why people believe democracy still exists in the U.S.”
    Me neither. RP is not a “super politician” but he has proven, over thirty years, he is a superior statesman, compared to the others.

  288. rippedthunder December 13, 2011 at 3:23 pm #

    Nice choice WSP, were they made in Collinsville? I know you would demand the best!

  289. wagelaborer December 13, 2011 at 3:28 pm #

    The point of the idiot Republicans seems to be to make Obama look to be the lesser of two evils.
    The republicans, including Rommey, criticize Obama for excessive regulations, maybe to bury the report that says that Obama is more receptive to lobbyists, and has issued fewer regulations than Bush.
    They criticize him for being soft on terrorism, maybe to give him cover for his murder spree on every continent.
    They scream about the EPA, to hide the fact that the environment is worse off under Obama.
    This article talks about the murderers that our ruling class hires to play the part of president on TV.
    http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2011/12/face-of-killer-who-is-your-president.html

  290. Patrizia December 13, 2011 at 3:28 pm #

    “THERE IS NO LONGER ANY RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN WORK AND PRODUCTION! ”
    Well you should tell this the millions who work in Asia or China or Africa for 30 dollars a month for six days a week and certainly more than 8 hours a day…
    Where do you think that what the Americans buy at WalMart comes from?
    You print the money and those idiots of Chinese work for nothing to provide you with goods you are not able to produce anymore.
    Do you really think it will last forever?
    Or will it be something like the price of real estate that was doomed to grow forever and ever…it was enough to ask and the bank provided a loan and everybody had a house…thank to those idiots that bought the subprime mortgages called with esotic names and classified AAA from your honest Rating Agencies…
    I give you a link, which is very funny…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWDdcD-1xoo
    may be you understand what I say…

  291. wagelaborer December 13, 2011 at 3:35 pm #

    What amazes me more is that people in other countries believe that there is democracy in the US.
    How is this possible?
    How does Obama or Clinton get to go to other countries and pontificate about human rights or democracy or free elections without being laughed off stage?
    How do people holding the mangled bodies of their children in their arms decry the lack of freedom that the US has brought them? Why would victims of US bombings still somehow believe that the US was some beacon of freedom?
    The kid in the article I linked to thought that he was going to go to America and have rights and a lawyer!!!
    Amazing. This is the kind of propaganda that Hitler could only dream of.

  292. Vlad Krandz December 13, 2011 at 4:09 pm #

    More Commie Cant. As Benjamin Franklin said, Democracy is two Wolves and a Lamb deciding what’s for dinner. America was never supposed to be a “Democracy” or Ruled by the Mob in other words.
    About the two guys: maybe they were lovers. Are you homophobic too? Or who knows, maybe the old guy was a convert to Islam. We may have to do this in order to fight the NWO. Their culture, altho primitive, is alive. Our’s has been subverted for decades by PC – thanks to people like you. People are so beaten down now that they can’t even say Merry Christmas any more.

  293. old69 December 13, 2011 at 4:36 pm #

    Too Rich to be “Rich” ?…
    And yet all of the problems stem from a huge amount of free money that has been accumulated and generated worldwide from the automatic economy: some 100 trillion dollars mostly in the hands of a few thousand rich families has been accumulated from the Technological Economy by optimizing, automating and generating huge economies of scale. There is something called advancements in production through science and technology and these advancements imply “do more with less”, “cut waste and cut costs” and these translate into fewer jobs somewhere down the line or jobs paid less.
    And those trillions needed a return on investment which they got by inflating real estate prices worldwide and playing financial games worldwide since the return on investment really implies that an automatic wealth generation machine is operating (and it is through the application of technology in all economic endeavors) but they try to hide this by making believe we still live in an 18th century economy where “hard work” and effort and “workers pay level” etc. are pivotal while this is no longer true at all: the system generates and will keep on generating huge profits and huge amounts of free wealth, but has no way to distribute it anymore since work is no longer necessary to produce the wealth.
    Of course, cheap third world labor helps but that is not the dominating trend: the dominating trend is the constant improvement of production efficiency in all sectors through the use of fewer and fewer workers, or else why advance and why research and innovate if you don’t gain from it ? And today a lot of poorer countries are reaching middle class salaries between 400 and 800 dollars a month (Brazil, Russia, parts of China, etc.) so the “cheap labor” card is relative, it will increasingly become less and less important: what really makes huge profits is technology applied to all economic endeavors, free cash with few workers.
    Hence, there is no other solution, the governments worldwide must give out free salaries and cheap rents to billions of people, this is the only way to distribute the money, no amount of fairy tale imagined work and jobs will ever do it.
    But all the critics that are trying to undertand what is not working in the economy try to force a resource scarcity myth explanation (peak oil, too many people, climate change etc.) and want to go backwards toward the stone age instead of forwards to Rockets to Mars and huge public and private projects that use the huge excess capacity in the economy and technology for progress and to distribute the money. But no, everyone talks badly about “consumerism”, all old hags, doomsters, “there is no more wealth” ideology (which just helps take away money from the 99 % poor and concentrates the money even more in fewer hands: they should be saying that wealth is increasing ever more through the Technological Economy and should be distributed! such turds) reactionary thugs, all greens, all scaredy cats, all against technology and science and progress and future projects, Rockets to Mars etc. because they want to go back to the stone ages. And in the process help concentrate ever more trillions in fewer and fewer hands by not asking for the only thing that must be given: free salaries, cheap rents, build skyscrapers, Rockets to Mars, huge projects for the future, etc.

  294. messianicdruid December 13, 2011 at 4:36 pm #

    “Hey, that’s what they ARE doing, and its only making things incredibly worse, faster and faster.”
    Just in case anybody wants to read-up on it:
    http://www.economonitor.com/blog/2011/12/bailout-total-29-616-trillion-dollars/

  295. old69 December 13, 2011 at 4:40 pm #

    Also check out:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=177391
    AN APE

  296. messianicdruid December 13, 2011 at 4:44 pm #

    Do you believe patents should be enforced?

  297. old69 December 13, 2011 at 4:59 pm #

    I want free salaries and cheap rents, I want Rockets to Mars, like a cry baby, I want that, I want that, jumping up and down like a baby, I want that screaming and pulling my hair, OK ? got the message ?
    What do I care about patent enforcement ? or who makes money from inventions and such, good for them, let them make billions (which they do anyways) but give the hundred million other miserable losers in the USA, EU, Russia, India and China that need jobs their free salaries and cheap rents, ok ? understand ?
    Jesus Christ what jackasses, I can’t beleive it…

  298. 8man December 13, 2011 at 5:06 pm #

    Some corrections so you can copy and paste it to your thesis ” How an Excess Capacity – Technological Economy implies Free Salaries, Cheap Rents, and Huge Private Public Projects (Rockets to Mars and Skyscrapers) as the only way Forward”
    By an APE MAN
    But all the critics that are trying to understand what is not working in the economy try to force a resource scarcity myth explanation (peak oil, too many people, climate change etc.) and want to go backwards toward the stone age instead of forwards to Rockets to Mars and huge public and private projects that use the huge excess capacity in the economy and technology for progress and to distribute the money. But no, everyone talks badly about “consumerism”, all old hags, doomsters, “there is no more wealth” ideology (which just helps take away money from the 99 % poor and concentrates the money even more in fewer hands: they should be saying that wealth is increasing ever more through the Technological Economy and should be distributed! such turds) reactionary thugs, all greens, all scaredy cats, all against technology and science and progress and future projects, Rockets to Mars etc. because they want to go back to the stone ages. And in the process help concentrate ever more trillions in fewer and fewer hands by not asking for the only thing that must be given: free salaries, cheap rents, build skyscrapers, Rockets to Mars, huge projects for the future, etc.

  299. rippedthunder December 13, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    hey GG , yea the bad egg gets the attention. That’s the problem. I’m armed, uh-oh watch list again! But I can tell you that I am probably the most level headed dude you know. The bad eggs spoil it for all of us. Just like the bad drivers spoil the fun for us speed freaks. I love driving my box about 110 mph down the super slab.I bet u didn’t think a ford 460 would go that fast!

  300. rippedthunder December 13, 2011 at 5:16 pm #

    Um forget I wrote that!

  301. Vlad Kramps December 13, 2011 at 5:31 pm #

    Grocery shopping is a real eye opener these days. Even the most basic food stuff, cereal, milk, eggs, ground beef are grossly more expensive than they were just a year and a half ago. I stopped buying saltine crackers when the price of a box went over a buck. That was around 1999 or so. That same box of crackers is now 4 bucks. For a box of crackers! It’s getting to be the case were I have to choose what days I’m going to skip eating rather than what meals I’m going to skip eating. Inflation? Yep! Deflation? I’ve seen house prices in my hood drop by 35 – 40% since 2007. Near as I can tell cars haven’t gone down in price though. I purchased my Honda Accord new in 2002 for $20k, and I think they go for about the same price now. For the big ticket items it’s the “buy now and pay later” meme. Same thing with furniture. “Pay no interest until 2016!” But the prices seem pretty much the same as they were 5 years ago. Same shit, higher interest rates.
    The way they scale down the price of a product is real amazing. Instead of 16 oz of something you get 14.5 oz and the price goes up by maybe a quarter. You can’t trust the inflation figures from the gubmint. They lie all the time. All the time. When they get done lyin they lie some more. Then they use lies to cover up lies.

  302. Vlad Kramps December 13, 2011 at 5:33 pm #

    The way they scale down the price of a product ^size of a product.

  303. rippedthunder December 13, 2011 at 5:36 pm #

    hey Wsp, I hope no one hates me. I have cool stuff as I am sure you do too. Tools,fuel, Toys, MC’s ;o), maybe a little land.seeds ,knowledge, a strong back(I hope) We gotta pull together. Sorry for the rant!

  304. ctemple December 13, 2011 at 6:09 pm #

    Reading Chomsky’s book Keeping the Rabble in Line was a real eye opener for me. He talked about how the drug war was used to conrol people, not drugs. And about how many people are superflous when it comes to capital accumulation. I think both parties conspire to keep most people in debt and powerless. They want gated communities, a few nice places to shop, and protection, and if most of the country goes down the tubes, it doesn’t matter.
    Phoney conservative blowhards like Limbaugh always called Bill Clinton a far left liberal and a socialist, when you got away from abortion and lip service to civil rights, Clinton’s policies weren’t much different than Reagan’s I think.
    Obama,if anything is a bigger fascist than W Buxh was, not that the liberal wacko Democrats are going to admit it.

  305. Vlad Kramps December 13, 2011 at 6:18 pm #

    Watched an episode of Cops the other day. This poor bloke was driving his family to a funeral on the Interstate. Can’t remember why he was pulled, but the kids in the back seat were crying “don’t take my daddy to jail!” Wife was crying. They searched his trunk and found a small amount of weed in one of the suitcase compartments. The cop was yellin at him, “I’m gonna stick my dogs on you if you don’t tell me where the rest of its hidden!” So the guy, all apologetic, goes up to the front seat and pulls out his glasses case and removes a small spliff. The cop makes him tear it up and yells, “don’t even think about throwing that wrapping paper on the ground. Your dam lucky I don’t haul you in. Look at what you’ve done to your kids!” Meanwhile the kids are hyperventilating, the wife’s crying, and the guys on his way to a funeral. Amazingly the cop let him go. Yeah, it’s all about the drugs.

  306. BeantownBill December 13, 2011 at 6:47 pm #

    I’d be interested to read what you think we ought to do about it.

  307. BeantownBill December 13, 2011 at 7:13 pm #

    TPTB will do everything in their power (which is very great) to insure that things always go their way. Sadly, the only alternative that will ultimately work is a bloody, long-term, drag-out uprising. Those of us who don’t want to be involved should head for the hills.
    Elections and the candidates’ campaigns are only misdirection plays to divert the public’s attention away from what’s really happening. For me, elections are a waste of my time and energy. I know that’s considered un-American, but we haven’t had real democracy here for almost 200 years.

  308. Cavepainter December 13, 2011 at 7:59 pm #

    Funny thing;…..just this morning I hear from a self labeled Left radio show a lambasting of Newt for having “dismissed a whole nation and its culture”, referring to his assertion that the Palestinians are an “invented people”, thereby, he contended, not worthy to be accorded their own sovereign nation.
    This strikes me as funny because the position of the Left on illegal alien invasion of America is that we too don’t deserve sovereignty – that is, protected borders for preserving the value of citizenship in determining national destiny. Too much Euro-centricity on our part I guess. You know; Greek philosophy, Roman – English law, the Enlightenment, all that white man stuff. Hmmm, sounds a little like the Left is not, on principle, opposed to ethnic cleansing, just in certain cases.

  309. ozone December 13, 2011 at 8:05 pm #

    Wage,
    “Freedom Jobs”, brought to you by your old pals at KBR! Just perfect, and always remember that “work makes you free”. (I recall that in wrought iron from somewhere, but where? hmmmmm)
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29968.htm
    The intent is crystal-clear. DETENTION, not “emergency bivouac” for natural disaster or any such bullshit, detention.
    Ps. You were absolutely correct as to “what the hell they’re up to”. Log trucks? Good sturdy poles to string barbed wire fences betwixt.
    Who are these “good folks” who will be doing these freedom jobs? Let’s be frank (okay, I’ll be frank, you be frankie), they’ll be on the wrong side. One half of the underclass to kill and oppress the other half? Here we go…

  310. rippedthunder December 13, 2011 at 8:06 pm #

    Sheet I’m glad he didn’t pull me over! I’m a public servent and Uh-oh there I go again!! Weed is actually somewhat legal in MA. 1 oz. will git ya a $100 ticket but I would still lose my job of 32 years. You get in more trouble with a beer between your legs! Go figure!

  311. ozone December 13, 2011 at 8:14 pm #

    Oops, sorry, fried a synapse or three there, reading through. It doesn’t specifically say anything conclusive about detention in the KBR invitation to employment…
    That is speculative on the part of the rock-prier-up-er. ;o)

  312. rippedthunder December 13, 2011 at 8:18 pm #

    I’m not defending drinking and driving by any means. I just think this whole anti-drug prohibition is a bunch of crap. It didn’t work in the ’20’s and it sure as hell is not working now. My son is a victim of this bullshit and it DOES NOT WORK! Billions for what? Cancer victims? No drugs for you! What is up with that?

  313. ozone December 13, 2011 at 8:26 pm #

    Yep,
    As CT upthread implies, it’s all about intimidation and control, not the drugs. After all, where do you think the CIA gets a lot of its’ walkin’-around money?
    Day-umm! Now I’M on the list too!
    See yez in stalag 33, barrack 6… I’ll split a saltine with ya, okay?

  314. rippedthunder December 13, 2011 at 8:30 pm #

    Yea me an Carter will be sharing a blanket!

  315. k-dog December 13, 2011 at 8:40 pm #

    Weed is actually somewhat legal in MA. 1 oz. will git ya a $100 ticket but I would still lose my job of 32 years.
    You have an odd definition of legal my friend. Loosing a C note and entering the legion of the permanently unemployed doesn’t sound like a slap on the wrist to me.
    Full decriminalization with sale and distribution subject to local approval and control is what President K-dog says.

  316. DeeJones December 13, 2011 at 8:53 pm #

    Fukushima is a true disaster: First they spray seawater on the reactors (already melted down) to try to cool them. See those clouds of steam, RADIOACTIVE steam? Wonder where they are going?
    Then there is the water run off that flows into the sea. See the RADIOACTIVE water run off? Wonder where its going? Say, want some sushi? Wanna have some fun? Turn off the lights! Wow! The sushi is glowing! And so are my fingers?!
    Oh, and the radioactive sea water & steam don’t just hang out around Japan, they travel the pacific all the way to California? Say, want to get some sushi?
    Japan is one fucked country now….
    But they will have company….Sushi sounds good for dinner. Hear it glows in the dark now…pretty….
    🙁

  317. James Hansen December 13, 2011 at 8:57 pm #

    Well for once I would like the U.S. and Japan along with Tepco, the plant owners to put truth and safety ahead of protecting the nuclear industry. Tepco has been lying and bullshitting the government and people of Japan since it happened back in March.
    I would like to see political pressure exerted to stop them from burning radioactive garbage and poisoning Tokyo residents and us also. The news blackout on this story has to stop and the government has to restart the testing for radiation being carried here by the jet stream that they stopped in April. They should inform the public the best course of action to take to protect themselves, like they do if a level 5 hurricane is approaching.
    The U.S. should form a coalition of the best minds and companies from all over the world to minimize the fallout from this disaster. They need to start spending some serious money to possibly build a Boron barrier under the three melt downs to stop their progress. This problem is bigger than Japan can handle by itself and the worlds governments better get together or face consequences of unknown misery.

  318. rippedthunder December 13, 2011 at 8:57 pm #

    Yea K, you have my vote. The 100 balloon fine is a pittance. The lost job/pension of 32 years not so much. Peeps think weed is like something evil. I have seen more alcohol fueled violence. That shit is evil. I’ll admit I love john Barley Corn but I am a friendly drunk. I just assume give ya a big wet kiss than hit ya!!

  319. Widespreadpanic7 December 13, 2011 at 8:57 pm #

    RipT, both my dad & Grandpa worked in the Collins Company plant making those axes & machetes. (back in the day when we produced things of value & usefulness here) I got ’em lying all over the place.
    Hey RipT, when you say you’re a fan of 7.62, do you mean 7.62×39 (Kalishnikov) or 7.62x54R (Mosin-Nagant). I’ve got a few Mosins, which are a lot of fun to shoot. Plus ammo is cheap. Cabelas is still selling them for $99.00, 60 years old but like new.
    Sorry to hear about your son. You hinted before that there was some trouble.
    –WSP7

  320. metuselah December 13, 2011 at 9:01 pm #

    TPTB will do everything in their power (which is very great) to insure that things always go their way. Sadly, the only alternative that will ultimately work is a bloody, long-term, drag-out uprising.
    ==
    That would be playing right into their hands, Bill. What you want to do is to disenfranchise their franchise(s). These includes:
    – the corporations, their contrived monopolies
    – the establishment red/blue political party
    – the establishment media/propaganda outlets
    – the gov mafia bureaucracies, court system
    – the religious institutions
    – the fake NGOs
    – the banks, fake credit system, fake money
    What you want to do is circumvent these, and raise awareness in others to do the same. When enough people tune off and turn their back on the gov mafia, disengage from it and its programming, the gov mafia will be finished.

  321. rippedthunder December 13, 2011 at 9:07 pm #

    7.62x 51 mm also known as the .308 winchester. sweet shooter and easy to find. the 39 mm is huge around the world. but I like the american stuff. I mentioned before that I am a fan of the M1A1.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1A_rifle

  322. Vlad Krandz December 13, 2011 at 9:15 pm #

    I like what Ron Paul said too: that the Israelis were an invented people too at the time. Turkle said it well: rights are another name for force. But will he be consistent with this point of view – doubt it. The Left never is. He’ll get all idealistic about the right of self determination of the natives in East Buttfuckistan and/or their right to our money so they can eat. At least Wage is consistent: continuous suicidal idealism for everyone except Whites. But why should we be so nice as to kill oursleves? Because it’s Right! Where does such morality come from in a Universe without a Creator?
    For the record: I believe rights are real and come from God. But we don’t always live up to that because it would mean granting the same to others.

  323. Vlad Krandz December 13, 2011 at 9:18 pm #

    Cops routinely changes the race of the perps from Black and Hispanic to White. Now go enjoy your silly self.

  324. metuselah December 13, 2011 at 9:26 pm #

    For the record: I believe rights are real and come from God.
    ==
    LOL! You’re such a joker. You don’t believe in rights, you believe in privileges. Specifically, “white race” privileges.

  325. ABSALOM December 13, 2011 at 9:33 pm #

    Mess wrote:
    “RP is not a ‘super politician’ but he has proven, over thirty years, he is a superior statesman, compared to the others.
    ============================================
    Mess, I’ll grant that Mr. Paul is somewhat of a maverick, far more so than dead-eyed McCain incredibly boasted to be; and he certainly isn’t pissing on our legs with platitude gratitude like Obomber, but my what a thin resume Ron Paul’s 30 yr tenure amounts to. I’m not an expert on his record, so I’ll defer to only what I’ve heard from him directly via debates, media soundbites, etc. His criticisms about what’s wrong with the system are only these: the SAME. OLD. GRIPES; even if they are legitimate ones. More precisely, I haven’t heard any NEW IDEAS from the man, only defunct symbolism comes from his mouth, considering his default puritanical and merely ideological views about an unregulated “Invisible Hand Job” market system. From what I’ve learned from some of the material shared here, Ron Paul’s lamentation of a utopic Capitalism that never existed and never could exist requires us to dream about the past, not adapt for the future. What silliness politics seem.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk
    “It’s called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to beleive it.” -George Carlin-
    Paul might be the smartest dinosaur of the Political herd these days, yet he’d only still lead us toward an extinction level event in perhaps a more sensibly prolonged fashion. Not good enough for me, so I’ll leave the voting to the simple (symbol) minded.
    ABSALOM

  326. metuselah December 13, 2011 at 9:42 pm #

    I see my prophesy is already coming true.

  327. ABSALOM December 13, 2011 at 9:50 pm #

    On a side note: did any of my fellow news junkies hear the bit about Verizon Wireless unintentionally sending out a mass, emergency broadcast style, text message to customers? The message simply warned receivers of a “Civic Emergency” advising people to seek shelter. OOPS! the cat is outta the bag for SHTF this Spring, folks.
    In the words of JHK, “Gird Your Loins.”
    FUCK. Not a kick in the nuts, please.
    ABSALOM

  328. ABSALOM December 13, 2011 at 9:55 pm #

    Dude, you need only briefly outline what your fuckin’ prophesy is, so I can agree or disagree. I don’t speak your language, so you’ll have to “dumb” it down for me.
    ABSALOM

  329. Vlad Krandz December 13, 2011 at 10:03 pm #

    Quite right Old. Technology put people out of work. And then it’s their fault! The question becomes: do we care more about technology or people? Which serves which? You put tech first – which is your error. And saying this does not make me a Luddite. Technology does not automatically improve life – only the skillful use of it does. And throwing people out of jobs is anything but skillful.
    And having people nodding off as drugged out vegtables 24/7 isn’t an alternative most people will embrace.

  330. metuselah December 13, 2011 at 10:06 pm #

    Well, dummy, it wasn’t a week ago when you called me crazy. You remember the context, right? Well, dummy, let me refresh your memory. I said it wont be long before you’d be parroting pretty much everything that I’ve been saying. That clip of George Carlin and your commentary posted just above, is exactly what I was talking about; ipso-facto, my prophesy.

  331. Mike Moskos December 13, 2011 at 10:07 pm #

    Just a response to Hugh above who commented that the mega Lo Mart was packed at 3am (judging by the full parking lot):
    Just what does Wal-Mart sell that’s worth buying?
    Certainly not food, ’cause there’s none there (just lots of edible “consumer products”–the factory farm industry’s term).

  332. Vlad Krandz December 13, 2011 at 10:15 pm #

    We have the right to exist and the right to defend ourselves. Yet Jews tell us to die and call us “Anti-Semites” when we say no. And I’m the Joker?
    Here’s a video about Nazi/Zionist collaboration. There was a Nazi/Zionist coin minted. If things had worked out differently, Hitler would have had a statue erected in Israel as one of the Fathers of the Nation. You people can’t deny the Truth forever and not be called liars.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3we8Sg9oOs

  333. metuselah December 13, 2011 at 10:24 pm #

    We have the right to exist and the right to defend ourselves.
    ==
    No, imperialists don’t have a right to exist. And you fscks are imperialists of the worst kind, because you are so good at it.

  334. Vlad Krandz December 13, 2011 at 10:34 pm #

    You’re right: he is a dummy. Very PC, a follower, a sheep.

  335. ABSALOM December 13, 2011 at 10:37 pm #

    Whatever ya spindly little man, you’ve still said nothing coherent. Not sure from which alter-ego your operating tonight, Mika/Meteuselah?
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/55688019@N00/775003238/
    And if I’m merely parroting shit you farted from your mind thru your fingertips onto this blog some time ago, I couldn’t recall because I’ve not been here long enough.
    I do remember something about a convoluted conspirational blurt you made when I first visited, but when I asked you to elaborate in your own words, you showed me a collection of brightly polished turds (your reading list) which you’ve clearly coveted for some time. This is your affliction, dickhead — not a prophesy.
    If your “prophesy” is right, if only shades of your worst imagining come to be, it’ll indicate sheer coinky-dink. Time to give up “the precious.”
    You and Vlad can go back to jerkin’ off on that cookie and passin’ it back and forth, now.
    Buh, bye
    ABSALOM

  336. BeantownBill December 13, 2011 at 10:42 pm #

    Well, all that makes a lot of sense, at least on the surface, but that’s the big problem – it ain’t gonna happen, not with the status quo here the way it is. That’s just one more item to put on the uprising’s list. Or maybe president k-dog will deal with it?
    Anyway, I’m glad you replied to my comment as you did because that’s kind of my pet complaint in CFN – just statements of the problems, but not the solutions.

  337. Vlad Krandz December 13, 2011 at 10:42 pm #

    The Nazis admired the Jews for their Nationalism. And look how they took over Palestine! And how the Rothschilds took over Europe from the Top.
    Does everone know how one of the Rothschilds destroyed the English economy and then bought it back on the cheap? Before the Battle of Waterloo, he set up a messenger system that would be faster than the Crown’s. When the British won, he had the message sent back that they lost. The Market panicked and everyone sold. Rothschild tricked England and the Jews still boast of it today. In the books they write for themselves that is – no need to feign PC guilt here!
    Great video, huh? That’s why you’re not saying anything about it. I know your tricks. Nothing is real unless people talk about it. Only denounce if necessary, if people are talking.

  338. Vlad Krandz December 13, 2011 at 10:45 pm #

    Exactly how does one gird one’s loins btw?

  339. metuselah December 13, 2011 at 10:46 pm #

    Ohhh, did I hurt your feelings. Well, dummy, get used to it. Such is reality when you are an ignorant fsck.

  340. ABSALOM December 13, 2011 at 10:49 pm #

    Ha

  341. BeantownBill December 13, 2011 at 10:56 pm #

    Yes, but this is kind of a passive-aggresive revolution, don’t you think, and TPTB would respond accordingly to squelch it, and so to continue the action, the public would have to revert to a bloody revolution anyway.

  342. metuselah December 13, 2011 at 11:11 pm #

    And look how they took over Palestine!
    ==
    You’re talking out of ignorance and malice. But since, Vladik, you consider yourself an educated fellow, let me focus your attention on this:
    Palaestina, ex monumentis veteribus illustrata, Volume 1 – By Adriaan Reeland – Google Books
    http://goo.gl/pzDJ4
    The author, Adriaan Reeland was a geographer, cartographer, traveler, scholar. He knew several European languages, as well as Arabic, Hebrew. The book is written in Latin. In 1695, Reeland has been sent to what was then called Palestine. Here are the main conclusions and some facts:
    * The country is mostly empty, abandoned, sparsely populated, the main population in Jerusalem, Acre, Safed, Jaffa, Tiberias and Gaza.
    * The majority of people – Jews. Almost all the others – Christian. Very few Muslims, mostly Bedouins. The only exception – Nablus (Shechem now), in which lived about 120 people from the Muslim family, Natshe, and approximately 70 “Samaria” (Samaritans).
    * In Nazareth, the capital of Galilee, lived about 700 people – all Christians.
    * In Jerusalem – about 5,000 people, almost all Jews, and some Christians.
    * In 1695, the year they all knew that the origins of the country – Jewish.
    * There are no settlements in Palestine, in the name of which there are Arabic roots.
    * The vast vast majority of the settlements have the original Jewish/Biblical names. The rest have Greek or Roman/Latin names. There were no Arabic names ascribed to any towns or villages.
    * Reeland mentions Muslims only as nomadic Bedouin who came to the city as seasonal workers in agriculture or construction sites.
    * In Gaza, lived about 550 people, half of them Jews and half Christians. Jews are successfully engaged in agriculture, in particular vineyards, olive trees and wheat. The Christians were engaged in trade and shipments.
    * In Tiberias and Safed lived Jews, but no mention of their employment, except traditional fishing in the Kinneret.

  343. metuselah December 13, 2011 at 11:14 pm #

    TPTB would respond accordingly to squelch it
    ==
    By doing what exactly? Force you to watch FOX TV and shop at WalMart?

  344. ABSALOM December 13, 2011 at 11:31 pm #

    Dead on Bill,
    I’ll grant one thing to Smeagol/Gollum: most of us are asleep; when they wake up, the BLOODY part of revolution might have already begun; they’ll not know the “real” reasons “why” the turmoil and chaos erupted. The propaganda machine will likely be broken, and the details lost to history. All they’ll be obliged to do is cope/adapt. Fuck the theories about why it all went to shit.
    This idea reminds me much of the fantastic film The Road, especially at the beginning, as the Vigo Mortensen and Charlize Theron characters awake from peaceful wedded slumber in their home to see fires burning beyond the window. Seen in this light, I have a harder time castigating people who are not aware of what might be around the corner. Some of the “ignorance” is willful, most of it is blissful.
    ABSALOM

  345. Anthony Schiano December 13, 2011 at 11:38 pm #

    Hugh,
    Just learned of a possible explanation for your crowded 24/7 Wal-Mart — it may be the homeless living in their cars. They park overnight at my local 24/7 Wal-Mart.
    Met a woman recently at a storage unit and we had a brief conversation about our respective uses for storage units: supplies for my day job; everything she has in the world that wasn’t already crammed into her ’93 Honda hatchback for her. Wal-Mart lets her and others park overnight in their designated camper parking; gives her a warm loo in the overnight, except on Christmas day. She said she sometimes gets gigs housesitting; was hoping for one this year as it’s otherwise tough to access a public restroom on Christmas.
    She gets by on $700 in SSI and $200 in food stamps. Said it was either a dirty furnished room and no ability to keep the car running, or the car and a storage unit. 56 years old with bad knees.
    I’ve begun to believe of late that its coming sooner than even those of us who are expecting it have been thinking. Please keep getting ready, all. Ignore the man in the tuxedo.
    peace,
    Anthony Schiano
    aka “President Malthus”
    http://www.MalthusUniversity.com

  346. ABSALOM December 13, 2011 at 11:48 pm #

    I’m sure you read the book, saw the film or both, but here it is.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6arDlAAF4Y

  347. BeantownBill December 13, 2011 at 11:48 pm #

    If the public does as you say, then TPTB’s businesses will fail. This will produce more and more unemployment; people will become much poorer, and therefore, desperate, while the wealthy will be able to survive much better. Eventually, the people will take to the street and violence will ensue.
    I’m not saying you’re wrong, and people shouldn’t turn away from the establishment, what I’m saying is that all actions are fated to ultimately lead to violent, massive civil unrest.

  348. metuselah December 14, 2011 at 12:10 am #

    If the public does as you say, then TPTB’s businesses will fail. This will produce more and more unemployment; people will become much poorer, and therefore, desperate, while the wealthy will be able to survive much better. Eventually, the people will take to the street and violence will ensue.
    ==
    Wrong! You have bought into corporate propaganda and a fallacy. Corporations don’t produce jobs. Corporations take away and eliminate jobs. They also take away wealth.
    When the corporations fail, there will be jobs created. Because now, the artificial “competitiveness” supplied to corporations via cheap credit, free money, the debasement of money, will be eliminated. The real job creators are the small local family businesses. They are also the real wealth creators. Because unlike the corporations, who siphon money out of the local economy, the local family businesses keep their money circulating in the local economy.

  349. ABSALOM December 14, 2011 at 12:16 am #

    That would be playing right into their hands, Bill. What you want to do is to disenfranchise their franchise(s). These includes:
    – the corporations, their contrived monopolies
    – the establishment red/blue political party
    – the establishment media/propaganda outlets
    – the gov mafia bureaucracies, court system
    – the religious institutions
    – the fake NGOs
    – the banks, fake credit system, fake money
    What you want to do is circumvent these, and raise awareness in others to do the same. When enough people tune off and turn their back on the gov mafia, disengage from it and its programming, the gov mafia will be finished.
    =============================================
    Bill, I’m going to risk being needlessly contentious, but I think this assertion that ENOUGH people will “unplug” from the system and ultimately defeat the so-called government mafia is a fucking pipe dream at best.
    I think what’s far more likely is that the red/blue types will fight each other AND the government intermittently — a shitstorm more like civil war with the government perhpas supporting whichever side still adheres to the status quo mentality. Is this not far more likely than a citizenry that coalesces to defeat its government. There are too, too many PATRIOTS out there who think shit would be just fine without “them.” I don’t know, maybe someone older with a better understanding of history could help me clarify or change my opinion on this. But thinking the government eventually just gives in to the will of the people, considering Smeagol/Gollum’s own admission of “their” tremendous power to influence outcomes, seems fuckin’ short sighted and stupid to say the least.
    Metuselah is dead wrong about his Matrix movie Zion uprising. Those movies were shit after the first one, anyhow.

  350. metuselah December 14, 2011 at 12:26 am #

    I think what’s far more likely is that the red/blue types will fight each other
    ==
    Nonsense. There is no red/blue types. There is only the illusion of the red/blue types, maintained by gov mafia propaganda. In fact, even the illusion is an illusion. That 30% which even bother to play along, vote on basis of “personality” rather than on the basis of ideology. Because there is no difference in the ideology.

  351. ABSALOM December 14, 2011 at 12:40 am #

    “Nonsense. There is no red/blue types. There is only the illusion of the red/blue types, maintained by gov mafia propaganda. In fact, even the illusion is an illusion. That 30% which even bother to play along, vote on basis of “personality” rather than on the basis of ideology. Because there is no difference in the ideology.”
    ===============================================
    Yeah, you’re not only full of shit, your crazy, and your fuckin’ stupid.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rh6qqsmxNs&feature=related
    Notice: I’m no longer addressing Smeagol/Gollum directly.

  352. metuselah December 14, 2011 at 12:50 am #

    LOL! I’m glad you posted that Carlin clip. The irony is just too delicious, because when speaking of stupid people, I have proof he was talking about you. Give me a sec and I’ll fish out the clip(s). Just a quick warning, I will your feeling you ignorant fsck.

  353. ABSALOM December 14, 2011 at 12:54 am #

    Float and sputter.

  354. metuselah December 14, 2011 at 1:03 am #

    Here you go:
    http://youtu.be/mKQs-jDI7j8

  355. ABSALOM December 14, 2011 at 1:08 am #

    Right, like I’m gonna follow this idiot down that rabbit hole. The irony is that it will bother this twerp to no end to know that he clicked on my links while I just scrolled on past his.
    Last even indirect bit of attention I pay to this goon.
    ABSALOM out!

  356. metuselah December 14, 2011 at 1:17 am #

    Ohhh, did I hurt dummy’s feelings again? Like a typical retard you run off sulking to mommy. What a disgrace you are.

  357. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2011 at 1:23 am #

    Lies. Damned Lies. The Arabs are not just Bedouin nomads but town and village dwellers: merchants and farmers. This is true even in the complete desert countries – and Palestine is more lush than that. There were hundreds of Palestinian Villages – now with Jewish names. Palestine was an exporter of food.
    This is one of oldest lies in the book: a Land without a People for a People without a Land. No serious person believes this crap anymore except Newt Gingrich types. Just be honest: you took Palestine from the natives just as we took America from the natives. But you didn’t do it on your own and you can’t hold it on your own. That’s the difference. You should have taken Madegascar when it was offered to you.
    We’re sick of supporting you – since you do nothing for us but much to us. Like bribing our politicians and trying to take away Christmas. Also just the little thing of trying to turn Christians into criminals via the Gays. And of course flooding our shores with Darkies. You better think it thru again. All of it.

  358. metuselah December 14, 2011 at 1:45 am #

    Lies. Damned Lies.
    ==
    It right there, in black & white. Published Long before Herzl and the German Zionist movement. Ask your Vatican masters to translate the Latin for you.
    Vlad, I know Israel like the back of my hand. I know every corner of the land. And I’ve said this before from personal observation: there isn’t one arab village that is older than 80 years. Most were created when Jordon had control over Judea and Samaria from 1948 to 1967. You can see this by the construction of the homes. All these arab towns are at best contemporaneous with Tel Aviv. Go and see for yourself.
    The arab arrived in Israel when the mass wave of Jews arrived Israel. The jews brought jobs. And arabs came to the country as cheap labor.

  359. metuselah December 14, 2011 at 1:52 am #

    We’re sick of supporting you
    ==
    No, Vlad, we’re sick of supporting you.
    You imperialist fscks been trying to buy, and when that fails, to intimidate and force our support for your thieving imperialism. Well, you ain’t going to get my support for your bestiality.

  360. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2011 at 2:14 am #

    You’re so self rightous. So much hatred. Not good for such a young man. You better humble yourself so you can learn some new things.

  361. tegmark December 14, 2011 at 2:27 am #

    As a continuation on the thesis:
    ” How an Excess Capacity – Technological Economy implies Free Salaries, Cheap Rents, and Huge Private Public Projects (Rockets to Mars and Skyscrapers) as the only way Forward”

    Conflicts create Poverty …
    We live in conflict based societies, ideologies, we worship conflicts: of course it is called something different, it is called “competition”, “equal opportunity”, “you must deserve it” and such BS and nonsense, but what it really means is fight, fight over everything, confrontation over everything, “I am better than you”, “I want to be better, judged better, demonstrate my worth against you and as such then hog up as much cash as possible (and feel justified because I deserved it)”, use your mind and talent to hose the other guy, the other company whatever, as this will then “make you win”; you will be the winner, winner take all. But the subtext of all of this is conflicts, fights, debates, always something against something else, someone against someone else and such. And this is also tied into the so called “democratic process” where everyone is a special little turd trying to make his ideas dominate or his plans against another idea or plan (just like the APE does), fight over everything, everything must be chosen, must be debated, must be confronted. It is also called “Freedom”, that is freedom to fight and hose each other.
    But it goes deeper than this, it also means everyone is a special little turdy “individual” with their special choices, their special ideas, their special contrasting “lifestyles”: and so for example couples divorce because some idiotic insignificant little difference is amplified beyond bold, and the divorce which is a conflict then generates poverty because then where there were 2 salaries and 2 people collaborating towards their common wealth, now each one is on his own and obviously much more poorer, but they are “free”, free to be their special little turdy selves. Same with corporations hiring and firing, everyone trying to be as difficult as possible to “satisfy” (since work is no longer necessary but an option, you can conflict over everything and be as picky as you want). Same with lawyers and legal conflicts, and corruption, everyone comparing everyone else and fighting everyone else and such BS.
    But there is no other choice between 2 social organizations: either you give out free lunches, handouts, free salaries and cheap rents or you continue with this competitive, winner take all system: there is no middle ground, there is no intermediate solution, and the OWSers simpy can’t say what they really want: HANDOUTS, FREE LUNCHES, FREE SALARIES AND CHEAP RENTS, they can’t come to grips that that is exactly what they should demand since all of the old economic rules no longer apply, they can’t understand that our psychology and culture and ideology is way out of sync with a system that generates and will keep on generating huge amounts of free wealth through technology, and that you no longer “have to deserve it”, or “work hard for it”; since it is all automatic now.
    But since all of the critics of the system cannot see clearly what it is that is bugging them, they continue to remain in this limbo, intermediate position confusing everything, all special little turds with their special ideology: they cannot come to grips that it is correct, ethically and morally and especially socially correct to ask for SCOT FREE HANDOUTS, FREE SALARIES, CHEAP RENTS, that the old fashion “hard work, you have to deserve it” myth is no longer applicable to a Technological Economy.
    Of course what many cannot understand is that there is no objective economic system, no objective “true” model, the model of economy is just that arbitrary system that is put in place according to who wins arbitrarily a tug of war between 2 arbitrary conflicting will powers, with no deeper or correct or metaphysically ethical meaning.
    So if you don’t want free lunches then you must accept this present system of winner take all, of the rich getting richer, of the increase of inequality, that is your values, there is no middle ground, either total free lunches or may the best man win and hog all he can.
    Also, the conflict based economy is not tuned in to what society should do and that is collaborate towards huge projects that unite, that do not reinforce all the little special “small businesses” or small “companies”, but create common goals, Rockets to Mars, millions of Skyscrapers, so people are concentrated on the common goal and not concentrated on fighting each other, they are concentrated on reaching an accumulated result and not a personal result where everyone thinks he is a winner against everyone else.
    But alas, it is all useless, man is a turd, he must get rid of this old clunker of a brain he has and design, implant a new one that is correctly programmed…
    AN APE

  362. tegmark December 14, 2011 at 2:30 am #

    That was from:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=177391
    You can copy it for your thesis, free information, free research…

  363. metuselah December 14, 2011 at 2:40 am #

    So much hatred.
    ==
    Damn right. When I look at you scum my stomach turns and I see blood red in my eyes. The more I learn about you the more I can’t stand the sight of you.

  364. Bustin J December 14, 2011 at 2:49 am #

    methuselah is a visually oriented person, so much so that his “eyes are red” and he “can’t stand the sight” (of someone on the internet).
    Dude. Get a life. Voluntary ban for 7 days.
    Vlad here is part of the fabric of CFN.
    QUO VADIS BABY

  365. k-dog December 14, 2011 at 2:52 am #

    Me deal with it. Sure no problem, I earn my Milk-bones.
    Since James Hanson has so much passion for this issue I will send him to Japan so he can bring back a detailed report on how we can help.

  366. k-dog December 14, 2011 at 3:01 am #

    Knowledge is useless if you don’t use it. Rage like the wind.

  367. metuselah December 14, 2011 at 3:06 am #

    BJ, read more carefully. The “you” was a plural. I wasn’t talking about Vlad specifically, I was talking about US history and Americans in general. You are not the good guys. In fact, most of the great evil in the world for the last 100+ years can be directly traced to youz — youz — as in, youz, Americans — as in, youz, the US.

  368. k-dog December 14, 2011 at 3:21 am #

    what? No credit for religious freedom or anything?

  369. Bustin J December 14, 2011 at 3:38 am #

    That is a good point, Tegmark.
    What is the principle behind work?
    Is it self-interest or survival?
    Tony Shiavo said, “Said it was either a dirty furnished room and no ability to keep the car running, or the car and a storage unit. 56 years old with bad knees.”
    Yeah… I’ve been saying for a while now that cars are just very large, very heavy assisted mobility devices. Much of America’s civic architecture are designed around them. Jobs spring from roads and road buidling. In the continental US, the farthest you can get from a road is 22 miles, and thats in the Yukon.
    Just the other day I was reading how very large ATVs are selling like hotcakes. Now you don’t need a road. You just drive all over the place. These things are big enough for a family of four. The gas mileage is not amazing either. But what are you going to do? Obese people are on their way to hanging up their walkin’ shoes… which is to say 40, 50, 60% of us.
    If you combine the number of people that don’t walk, can’t walk, or soon won’t be able to do without assistance, with the sheer numbers of boomers heading into the hip-replacement age, perhaps its time to invest in Segway. Or are they private?
    The fact is, if you are immobile you are dead, dead, dead in the water. We are nation of permanent nomads- that is, who aren’t plumb-struck about being immoble- which is quite a few people. The internet provides an odd feeling of transit when one is “navigating” the web. Likewise, video games (far surpassing movies in total gross and far beyond as hours spent) are a blur of constant visual motion. Avatars are the people, too, man.

  370. Patrizia December 14, 2011 at 4:49 am #

    The EU and the Euro
    Which will end first?
    The EU or the Euro?
    The EU is the union of countries that send their representatives to the Brussels’ club MED, to measure the dogs tail and care for the exclusivity of Nutella, but do not discuss about futilities like bombing Libya or African migrants, or the Mafia in Europe.
    The Euro is a partially unique currency (just for 17 countries out of 27).
    It should represent the value of different economies, with different fiscal laws, GDP and public debts that little have in common.
    The EU and the Euro have in common the fact that they are both Virtual, they are both a dream.
    They exist in the eyes of the beholders.
    Their main problem is that nobody believes in dreams anymore.
    We will have the collapse of both the moment Merkel and Sarkozy will agree about the square meters of Europe they will be able to get.
    The divorce attorneys, the EB and the IMF are already working at it, with the good help of the rating agencies.

  371. 8man December 14, 2011 at 6:11 am #

    With regards to the thesis :
    “Modifying the Fundamental Structure and Design of Minds and Brains and discovering the New Universes with new Laws of Physics that can be Perceived, Experienced and Invented”
    Alexandra and San Jose Mommy (and her hot teenage chick who will present it to her science class in high school) are working on, you may need to insert the following:
    Beware, the Man Brain as understood in my interpretation (what a joke of an interpretation! all attacks are welcome, don’t worry!) is the set of all Man Brains of a civilization considered as a single entity, a single instance of a given design of Man Brain. In fact our reality principle and the perception of external reality and the extension of reality immersed in an objective – external space time is completely due to apparently independent mind brains reciprocally confirming collectively the same interactions, creating a generalized consensus along with the memory and patterns discovered, giving the impression of a real objective reality: nothing further from the truth, just because our particular Man Brain design is designed in such a way as to be repeated millions of times and occupying different points in space and time, different experiences of each Man Brain, and the communications amongst them doesn’t make that design any more real then a single Man Brain design that doesn’t need communication with other instances of itself. It is just Matter (matter talking to itself, interacting with itself) organized and subdivided in any number of possible ways, divided in trillions of mind brains communicating and independent, not divided at all, disjoint, large, trillions of very different Man Brains communicating some bits and some not, small, etc. you can imagine a Man Brain that is just a gas (but information transfers amongst the cells or atoms or transistors or circuits is present), etc.
    Matter talks to itself, Matter interacts with itself, or simply interacts, self communicates: but if it is itself why should it communicate to itself ? it has zero extension in space and time, and Matter knows itself already…hm…oh, I see it is a joke upon itself, Matter is a joke on itself, so it subdivides itself in many make believe independent parts that then talk to each other (other brains ? minds) that make believe that they can communicate something new to another part of itself, but it is just a joke on itself, there is nothing new to communicate to itself…
    TOBOR ATE MAN

  372. charliefoxtrot December 14, 2011 at 6:56 am #

    blah, blah, blah, snark, blah,hate, blah, blah, blah…anyone buy a burger, i mean pull their cash out of the bank? i haven t the acct, but i did attend an economic indicator party yesterday- anybody who could show up at noon on a tuesday gives a good idea of who has work to do…about 80 showed- there was some rotation in guests, and thank god some people arrived late- as in had something to do…good event for me, you ll be happy to know i made some contacts for possible future projects; and one arrangement for just after the first of the year…all in all a successful mixer, i would recommend the idea…

  373. messianicdruid December 14, 2011 at 7:12 am #

    “Their main problem is that nobody believes in dreams anymore.”
    But they are trying real hard.

  374. messianicdruid December 14, 2011 at 7:38 am #

    “Not good enough for me, so I’ll leave the voting to the simple (symbol) minded.”
    Its not good enough for me either. RP is not perfect, but anybody that can fix the three items you mentioned will vastly improve our situation. I would start with outlawing usury.
    Voting for RP is still better than setting around bitching about the system. I don’t buy the media’s bullshit about him being unelectable.

  375. messianicdruid December 14, 2011 at 7:47 am #

    From the lawsuit:
    “This is a civil claim arising out of the concerted, knowing, malicious scheme and international conspiracy engaged in by the Defendants for the designed purpose of defrauding plaintiff KEENAN, the designated Agent of his Principal, the “Dragon Family,” for the express purpose of expropriating, stealing and converting certain negotiable financial instruments lawfully owned by the Dragon Family and entrusted to KEENAN in early 2009. These assets (hereinafter referred to as the “Dragon Family Financial Instruments” or the “DFFI”) had been intended for participation in select, registered and authorized Private Placement Investment Programs (or “PPPs”) for the benefit of a wide range of global humanitarian purposes. At the time of the criminal and deceitful acts of the Defendants, the approximate face value of the stolen DFFI was One Hundred Forty-Five and One Half Billion ($145,500,000,000.00) United States Dollars with an approximate accrued interest value of One Trillion ($1,000,000,000,000.00) United States Dollars.”
    http://cryptogon.com/?p=26472#comments
    {oh no! Q is going to be unhappy with me}

  376. messianicdruid December 14, 2011 at 7:50 am #

    As I have pointed out before, everything is falling apart right on schedule. Here’s a better link:
    http://divinecosmos.com/start-here/davids-blog/995-lawsuit-end-tyranny?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+DavidWilcockBlog+%28David+Wilcock+Newsletter%29

  377. DeeJones December 14, 2011 at 8:17 am #

    “Well for once I would like the U.S. and Japan along with Tepco, the plant owners to put truth and safety ahead of protecting the nuclear industry. Tepco has been lying and bullshitting the government and people of Japan since it happened back in March.
    I would like to see political pressure exerted to stop them from burning radioactive garbage and poisoning Tokyo residents and us also. …”
    HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-!!! Like that is EVER going to happen. I mean, really, safety & truth BEFORE corporate profits? Welcome to Fascism 2.0
    (or 3.0,whatever)
    Political pressure will only occur if the Sheeple ever grow a pair, and since they have been both castrated AND lobotomized, I really don’t think that is ever going to happen either. Can you say Baaaa!
    Hmmmm…. how about some sushi for lunch? Sounds good to me, do they take plastic?
    :/

  378. DeeJones December 14, 2011 at 8:30 am #

    “Just a response to Hugh above who commented that the mega Lo Mart was packed at 3am (judging by the full parking lot)”
    Wonder how many of those cars in the lot have people LIVING in them?
    Someone else was wondering how the sheeple can afford to be buying all this junq now.
    Well, its call a credit card. I bet if you stood at the end of the checkout lines, you would see plenty of them, most people have at least six (6), and they are also probably almost maxed out to the limit of $10-20,000 EACH.
    One thing I bet you won’t see is people paying for things with a check (how gauche!) or cash (except the guys in camo buying ammo, eh, RT?).
    Yep, its the pocket-rocket, the plastic fantastic, its your Master card & Visa to debt.
    Say, wanna get some sushi? They DO take plastic you know….
    :]

  379. old69 December 14, 2011 at 9:14 am #

    That’s not Good Enough …
    Another subtle mistake most people make is that of believing in the stability of “savings”, in the stability of money, of accumulated wealth, etc. So you have 100,000 dollars (or a house) and that is supposed to be valid forever: not true, the economy is a process, only the present interaction of forces and the present play of forces determine what is or isn’t good enough. It is like someone who simply wakes up in the morning and decides that that amount of money is not good enough to buy a house anymore for example. The entire real estate inflation game is based on someone deciding, just because, “that’s not good enough, just because, because I say so”, there is no “Invisible Hand”, there is a very simple straightforward intentionality to hike up the prices of something or to gain more profits in some ordeal, etc. and in effect, betraying any stability, trying to get an upper hand, trying to get a profit all of a sudden just because, because he can do it (just like the innovation, education and startup myth implies that no one is ever good enough, you will never be educated or innovative enough, you will never discover electricity all over again, you will never invent Windows and become the “Next Bill Gates” all over again, etc.).
    And such is with everything else, jobs, work, health care, you name it, someone just decides “that’s not good enough anymore” and no one challenges it, no one cracks their heads open because of this, they can do it.
    But the economy is simply a process, no accumulation of past wealth is ever really a guarantee for anything, only a stable process can guarantee the future, but a stable process flies in the face of all the present day Standard Economic Theory that worships Change and Competition and Free Market and the Invisible Hands of the market more than simply and bluntly deciding very simply what to do with the wealth the economy generates.

  380. tegmark December 14, 2011 at 10:05 am #

    From:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=177613
    FREE MONEY
    It is the way things are called and described that count: the word debts means some future pay back time, but this word is a falsification of reality, the word should be “free money from excess capacity”, not debts.
    High Debts and High Unemployment reflects a desperate attempt to try to deny that the economic system generates huge free money and free wealth and has huge excess capacity such that the debts can be made anyways, the fact that free salaries are being given out anyways, actually reflects the fact that what is called “debts” is actually the “excess wealth”, “free money” the Technological Economy generates no matter how hard the Standard Economic Model ideology tries to call the free money “debts” instead of “excess capacity”.
    If the debts were really debts and the money wasn’t really free wealth, then you would have loads of jobs available and very low unemployment, since the free money would have to come from somewhere, from some “real work” (as the fairy tale Standard Economic Model tries to brainwash everyone with the simple linearity of “more work” is “more wealth” while this linearity is no longer operating anymore and hasn’t been operating for decades). But this is exactly not the case, this situation of the western world full of debts and with few jobs exactly reflects the fact that jobs are no longer necessary to generate wealth, to generate “money”. Otherwise it wouldn’t be sustainable at all, or sustainable for only a few months but this ball game has been going on for decades.
    Granted some of that money is generated through cheap “oil” and cheap third world “labor”, but it could have never reached such high levels of trillions of dollars in the USA, EU and JAPAN if the fundamental economic structure weren’t generating free wealth and excess capacity from the outset anyways. Case in point, I read recently that sick man Italy has 180 billion dollars of “retirement costs”, which translates into the equivalent of 18 million “free salaries” of 10,000 dollars a year; it is as if almost 80 % of the country is living off free salaries anyways, no matter what. And this has been going on for years, it is not a recent situation. Now, how is that possible if the system isn’t generating free wealth anyways, automatically ? Same for the USA (and maybe its Defense budget and similar), JAPAN with its load of 200 % debt to gdp ratio and so on.
    The entire debt game and budgets game (both in the USA and EU) and similar is a desperate attempt to make believe that you need jobs to balance out the free money, that you need work to compensate the free money given out anyways: nothing further from the truth, there is no longer any relationship between work and money in a sense, jobs aren’t needed to create wealth and money. In fact the money and wealth is mostly a reflection of relationships between people, not “products that are being made”, not “jobs that are performing a function” (especially in the services economy), no it is all a status game, an optional game of power struggles and winning and losing some poker game proxies mostly.

  381. charliefoxtrot December 14, 2011 at 10:45 am #

    ripped- thanks, but i m on a phone; i don t have a control/escape…or tab, as far as i can tell…i ll be ok…i see this morning the story about fema camps has hit info.info if you re interested…clusterfuck ’em

  382. xhalor December 14, 2011 at 11:26 am #

    In the future, everyone should have to take a turn at doing the really disgusting tasks. The work that even illegal immigrants and robots won’t do. It’s your turn to clear the bilge pumps, CAPTAIN. I guess that would screw up the rank structure. Maybe the rank structure needs to be screwed up.

  383. messianicdruid December 14, 2011 at 11:30 am #

    “Like I say, it’s a situation right now.
    My understanding is that chaos is the best word to describe what is happening right now within the leadership circles of the Western world.
    I would even include Japan in that. There’s a lot of confusion. People don’t know what to do next.”
    chaos = code for CFN

  384. messianicdruid December 14, 2011 at 11:40 am #

    “…everyone should have to take a turn at doing the really disgusting tasks.”
    And for each turn, the disgustingest “jobs” are doubly or triply rewarded with: time off, victuals, a roof, and perhaps a small stipend for private matters.
    Those who produce more, ie: cleanliness, safety, honorable leadership, mediation { peacemakers }services, food, energy, technological wealth, art, skil and labor are rewarded more.
    Come to think of it, all the “things” we do with stable money, such as gold & silver among others.

  385. lbendet December 14, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    Risk Immunity and the rigged global game…
    A few weeks ago I posted on this blog a piece about risk aversion and E. corrected me and called it risk immunity. Kudos to E.in absentia, I think that describes the system we find ourselves in best.
    Strip-mining our economy and the extraction of our wealth from the country: No matter how many examples of this rigged global system have been exposed and no matter how we continue to see examples of how the banks and other masters of the universe expect to not loose a penny on any of their bad bets with no money to back them, they just keep plowing through. All the apologists on both sides of the aisle are trying to spin a tale about laws not actually being broken. It’s all about lobbyist money used to change laws to set us up for another hit–and nothing is illegal for this economic demolition crew. The rest of the us have to eat the losses.
    The banks offer no interest rates-but charges us to keep your money in them. They invest offshore and in other countries, not loaning money to US companies in-state. We bail them out to the tune of $Trillions and they strip us of our wealth!
    Those sovereign wealth funds created by Morgan Stanley to the wealthy Arabs who buy up our infrastructure expect to make a profit every year. They will not take a loss, so we can’t develop any competition that might make them lose money. No trains to be developed along the pathways where they have bought up the highways.
    Yes we all have to be downgraded so that the top tier can keep doing their magic–all for themselves while taking down the rest of the global economy. Why this is being allowed by other nation states is beyond me. We go around the world bullying everyone to toe the line for us because as Geithner has told the Europeans. The American bankers don’t want to lose one penny.
    Imagine the audacity of the Repugs telling us that we must keep cutting the taxes of the rich. Now Newt tells us that all his past misdeeds are things of the past and as Christians, his constituents must forgive him. He’s only human, you know and he now accepts Christ. Another example of risk immune behavior with a nice tidy little rationale.
    Oh, Newt got $7 million from a billionaire cause he’s going to cut his taxes by $2 million! His tax overhaul: wants to cut income taxes to 15%, corporate tax to 12.5% and 0 capital gains, 0 inheritance. Yup, that ought to balance the budgets, alright.
    Whatever happened to economic determinism?
    Following the dictates of his fellow Neocons and Neolibs Newt, the student of history (more like the end of history) wants to got to war with Iran. Can’t wait to see how high oil goes up to and how well that’s going to affect our economy. And who’s going to pay for the military, exactly—Germany, France, China?
    In the meantime, China now wants to build a naval base in the Seychelles where one of drones was downed Tues. Morning.

  386. Patrizia December 14, 2011 at 11:55 am #

    “deciding very simply what to do with the wealth the economy generates.”
    I guess we are going ashtray.
    If I want to eat bread Somebody has to grow wheat, harvest it, make the flour, make the dough and bake it.
    In the beginning if a man wanted to eat he had to hunt or to grow his food.
    Then there was a time when people had a “job”, one produced the bread, the other bred the animals and so on.
    Instead of exchanging chickens with onions they decided to use money, which was much simpler.
    Everything was fine till there came some smart people who instead of giving the money its value (one buck was for one bucket of something) used it as a mean of making more money.
    As if the money had a value in itself and could generate richness just exchanging pockets.
    And this was the beginning of the end.
    Finance is the art of stealing in the legal way.
    It is like gambling, where one makes the money and the other looses it.
    And of course when the money was not backed anymore by anything the game became even more interesting and more criminal.
    Debt IS NOT surplus richness, it is paper in excess, money NOT backed by anything, used to pay goods or labor practically cheating.
    You give me this and I give you something which is worth nothing, but let´s pretend it is worth something…
    No wonder this game will finish soon.
    The world is full of idiots, but there is a limit to idiocy.

  387. Patrizia December 14, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    “And who’s going to pay for the military, exactly—Germany, France, China? ”
    The answer is very simple: print all the money they need, as long as they still find somebody willing to work for money…
    I guess very soon here in Germany they will have their salary in potatoes, onions, meat, milk, concrete and so on..
    Knowing the Germans I have no doubt that in 24 hours they would be able to organize, count, distribute.
    They will have computer programs that will make the tailored salary for your needs and the hours you worked…I can assure you can feel safe in this country, you perfectly know that whatever happens they will find the way out…

  388. 8man December 14, 2011 at 12:08 pm #

    From:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=177613
    So what do all of the sacrifice, austerity, cut costs measures and so forth that the governments are enforcing in Greece, Italy, the USA etc. really mean: they are saying “please do not create even more excess capacity”, “stop creating excess capacity”, but obviously this is impossible since the Technological Economy is an automatic system, it operates across the entire planet, it will keep on generating ever more free wealth, so those cost cuts, layoffs, government jobs hacked, pensions denied, etc. will only take away some redistributed money from the lower classes only to concentrate even more wealth in the already super rich: go figure, they are already drowning in trillions and they are forced to choke on other trillions without any possibility to even redistribute it through jobs, since the jobs fairy tale means “you have to deserve it”, “you must provide a function” etc. when there are no longer any functions to provide.
    So all the OWSes and such must decide: either you ask for scot free handouts, free salaries and cheap rents, or accept a system that will keep on concentrating wealth ever more in fewer hands. Decide, jackasses, don’t get confused, this is what the name of the game is, and don’t be hypocrits: if you don’t want free salaries then go home and watch TV and get out of the way.
    AN 8 MAN

  389. linhan3l1j December 14, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    The SB Chronicles Vol. 1

    Thanks for participating in the online premiere of The SB Chronicles Vol. 1. The full-length video will be available on iTunes starting Dec. 10, 2011.

    Read more.

  390. Buck Stud December 14, 2011 at 12:31 pm #

    “And who’s going to pay for the military, exactly—Germany, France, China?
    In the meantime, China now wants to build a naval base in the Seychelles where one of drones was downed Tues. Morning.”
    Despite all of its problems, the US is hands down the most powerful military in the world, and second place is a long ways away. That doesn’t mean the US could successfully occupy China or Russia – it can’t. But in regional conflicts outside of that domain and especially where the high seas are involved, the US is completely and utterly dominant. But I wonder how long that will be the case, especially when I compare the zeal for hard sciences that the typical Chinese student displays in comparison to the typical American student. And according to Debka, chinks are starting to emerge in the armor of technological dominance:
    http://www.debka.com/article/21550/

  391. Vlad Kramps December 14, 2011 at 1:00 pm #

    God I’d like to get you a little tipsy on some egg nog and refer, chase you under the mistletoe, and give you a big, wet sloppy one, you cute little white supremicist you!

  392. Vlad Kramps December 14, 2011 at 1:03 pm #

    ^reefer. And after a while, we’ll conspire by the fire…You do me then I’ll do you! I know it’s cold in Idaho, but I can keep you warm, big boy! And get over Dee! She’ll just try and feed ya some glow in the dark sushi! Dump the bitch, make the switch!

  393. Vlad Kramps December 14, 2011 at 1:07 pm #

    I’ll gird your loins any day, Papa Smurf!

  394. k-dog December 14, 2011 at 1:09 pm #

    “For the record: I believe rights are real and come from God.”
    I thought they came from Thomas Jefferson who said:
    “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
    According to George Carlin we don’t have any rights at all.
    Whats the truth?
    Can anybody help me out here?

  395. xhalor December 14, 2011 at 1:12 pm #

    I would say that the most nebulous armour chink is with the personnel. Once the initial brainwashing wears off, many realise that they are on the first rung on the Good Ol’ Boy ladder. Then comes the epiphany that JHK has pointed out: What is it about this culture that is worth dying for? At any Army base I was stationed, I never saw any books by Sartre in the library.

  396. k-dog December 14, 2011 at 1:16 pm #

    some glow in the dark sushi” = see food!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Change the last ‘e’ in see to an ‘a’ and give me a milk-bone.

  397. xhalor December 14, 2011 at 1:17 pm #

    I’ll take a stab at it. Ahem, the universe is unconcerned about your comfort level.

  398. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

    Did Met write that or did I? Rights “come from Thomas Jefferson”? What does that mean? That Jefferson is God? He believed that rights were innate to put it in secular terms – since he was an agnostic. What the alternative? That they come from the State. That’s what the United Nations believe. All the rights they list in their Declaration are actually Privledges that can be taken away.
    The Third alternative is Turkle’s “Legalism” to use the name of the Chinese School who believed thus. Machiavellian would be the Western Equivalent. Rights don’t exist – only power. Turkle trots this out now and then as a defence against me – at other times he’s a raving idealist of the Communist School.

  399. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2011 at 1:23 pm #

    You are a true degenerate Kramps. You must enjoy beating off to the show Cops as they mistreat the perps. Just remember to change the race of perp in your mind to adjust to reality.

  400. xhalor December 14, 2011 at 1:26 pm #

    Also, why would a God bestow “rights” and then allow them to be taken away by talking monkeys with fire sticks? Oh, that’s right. We have to wait for the transition and then check to see if they’re being dealt with in Hell. Well, let’s hope they have the TV Guide in heaven (‘cuz there is no beer).

  401. k-dog December 14, 2011 at 1:30 pm #

    Well whoever wrote it please add:
    While god has given you your rights it is up to you to keep them because no matter where they come from other men can take them away.
    Thus spake k-dog.

  402. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2011 at 1:33 pm #

    Carlin said we had no rights but obviously thought that that was a bad thing and that we should have them.
    Now obviously the three approaches to this do connect: rights may be innate but they are going to protect themselves. Nor is God going to come down and do it. We have to do it ourselves. Thus rights come from power which come from the sword. So We fought a Revolution and won. The Elite of Europe nodded sagely and saw a new Dynasty come inot being. They gasped in horror and disbelief when Washington stepped down voluntarily. Only then, did they realize that the Founding Father really believed what they had written.
    See the Principle? Sacrafice of personal power and influence in favor of the Good as put forth in the Constitution. That’s what ultimately makes this School different from the French Revolution and their Rights of Man propaganda. All their rights were only privledges – just a trick to get the Intellectuals and the Middle Class on their side. The lower class were promised revenge and loot. That sufficed.

  403. k-dog December 14, 2011 at 1:33 pm #

    No beer but they have cable? Well I know the weed is good, that has biblical sanction.

  404. k-dog December 14, 2011 at 1:35 pm #

    “They gasped in horror and disbelief when Washington stepped down voluntarily.”
    As will k-dog.

  405. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2011 at 1:37 pm #

    Oh the horror: Jon Stewart mocks the Republicans as they crawl and compete to curry Jewish favor.
    http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=10720

  406. xhalor December 14, 2011 at 1:40 pm #

    Let that be all the proof that you need. Getting a liquor license is a bitch.

  407. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2011 at 1:49 pm #

    Anyone see the movie “Thirty Days of Night”? Many here would enjoy it. The Vampire Lord of Easter Siberia and his gang come and terrorize an isolated Alaskan Town during the Time of Dark. One of the People says, “Oh God”. The Vampire Lord responds seriously, “No God”.
    Other hightlights: he kills one of the other Vampires who the people injured with a sun lamp. With incredible compassion he asks if she understands that “What is broken must be broken”. She nods.
    Also it’s cool how the Vamps have blood on their face and don’t bother to wipe it off between kills. Why bother? We’re a long way from the Courtly Count Dracula here. Also I like the way the people became vampires: not all at once but gradually becoming toothy and snappy.
    The Vampire Lord understands how incredibly cruel much of human compassion is. He puts his human servant out of his misery when the Town Folk had left him chained up with a gunshot wound.

  408. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2011 at 1:59 pm #

    Thus the School of State Idealism always sucuumbs and becomes Legalism or the State having all Power. As the Kagans and Sotor Mayers transorm us into us into a Secular Socialist State we will simultaneously transform into a Tyranny.
    Good Goverment is Small Goverment. And it’s only possible when the People do for themselves and their Community. If People don’t take care of their own Friends and Family, then the State must. That’s how it began. Republicans and Libertarians don’t see this and think you can change one thing (Social Welfare) without changing the way we live.
    Thus I have delineated the position of the Third Way as it pertains to Human Rights. Neither the so called Right nor the so called Left can accept these truths but rather each will try to assign me to the enemy’s camp. Don’t fall for it – and fight yourself if you find yourself doing it (you will).

  409. Vlad Kramps December 14, 2011 at 2:02 pm #

    Just finished a fiction book called “The Painted Bird” by Jerry Solkinzzzzzeksi …heck, I don’t know how to spell his last name. It’s a great book about a boy’s experience with the evil of humanity during WWII. I sometimes read when I’m not watching “Cops” and beating off.

  410. xhalor December 14, 2011 at 2:03 pm #

    Must concur. One of the best scary movies, ever. And yes, agreeing with you about ANYTHING is swallowing a Lincoln Log (R) sideways.
    That’s probably gonna be mine for the day.

  411. xhalor December 14, 2011 at 2:16 pm #

    Allow me to post to myself. I can see that I rudely interrupted the daily mass postings of (at it’s core) racist blather. Please continue. What the fuck was I thinking of?

  412. xhalor December 14, 2011 at 2:29 pm #

    Oh snap. I see the two “Vlads” now. Fuggin’ perfect.
    Vampires.

  413. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2011 at 2:30 pm #

    You better or I’ll rap your snout with a rolled up Sunday New York Times.

  414. wagelaborer December 14, 2011 at 2:32 pm #

    Yep, one half of the working class. But they may not be reliable.
    I think I posted here last week that two right wing security guards came up to me. One said that he listened to my show, and liked it.
    One was totally opposed to the plans to throw US citizens into military prisons.
    On Democracy Now today, they were talking about that law, and the ACLU lawyer said that the head of the military and the head of national intellingence are against it, but Carl Levin and Lindsey Graham were for it “for some reason”.
    For some reason??? Who is pushing this? Clearly not the military, but to think that the Congress comes up with bills on their own is totally ridiculous.
    I tend to think that the article makes it pretty clear. They expect widespread unrest in the coming economic collapse, and they are preparing for mass arrests and imprisonment. Not the Congress, not the military, the real ruling class, the .01%.
    So our only hope is that the rank and file refuse to do their duty.
    But, looking at the cops and the occupy citizens, they probably will.

  415. Vlad Kramps December 14, 2011 at 2:32 pm #

    Only I don’t vant to suck your blood. I vant to suck something else.

  416. Vlad Kramps December 14, 2011 at 2:34 pm #

    I’m the smart, non-racist, kind to you and your dog, Vlad. And yes, that means K-dog gets his milk bone.

  417. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

    Yeah and I’d tase you first, bro. And I’d be justified since a Queer’s mouth is a deadly weapon – full of lies, impurity, and disease.
    You’d spasing on the floor with egg nog coming out of your orofices. Sounds great, huh?

  418. newworld December 14, 2011 at 2:37 pm #

    Yeah westcoast I’m a subscriber to OQ, but it has gone down hill and become nothing but a “name the jew” outlet. Anti-semetism being a huge fault of the white right since it basically takes a few facts and truths and blows them up into a farcial magic horror show concoction, totally beneath us.

  419. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2011 at 2:39 pm #

    Oh get off your high horse. Your weirdness is not wisdom. Mine is. Salem’s Lot is scarier because more supernatural.

  420. wagelaborer December 14, 2011 at 2:39 pm #

    Last week one of my Facebook friends in Texas spent 30 hours in jail for rolling through a stopsign.
    Apparently, the only traffic violations in Texas for which you CAN’T get thrown into jail for; are speeding and having open containers in the vehicle.

  421. newworld December 14, 2011 at 2:43 pm #

    James Hansen tries to change the tone and fails. Why? Because Fukashima has become theoretical and abstract while the contestants here dispute what is real and in front of them.
    From what I gather nuclear reactions depend much on the geometrical shape of the reactants and now that the shape has been so distorted no one knows where entropy goes.
    Also if entropy were happening it would produce heat and other by-products and even the scare mongers have been hard pressed to find measurable quantities of either. My bet, it is a long term degradation that destroys a valuable part of Japan, not just in a big bang news worthy event.

  422. xhalor December 14, 2011 at 2:45 pm #

    Wait, wait, I know this…the blood of Muslim children?

  423. wagelaborer December 14, 2011 at 2:49 pm #

    We have rights just for being born human on this planet.
    The Bill of Rights forbids the government to interfere with these innate rights.
    Our current government is definitely interfering with our rights. They must be stopped.

  424. Vlad Kramps December 14, 2011 at 2:50 pm #

    No, no. I am not Vlad Krantz, evil blogster and misanthrope. I love my Muslim brothers and sisters (okay, maybe I love the brothers more, but in a different sort of way).

  425. xhalor December 14, 2011 at 2:58 pm #

    See. And I’m waitin’ for the flawless combination of racism AND religious dogma. Just wait. It’s coming.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Uvt83YWWWY

  426. wagelaborer December 14, 2011 at 3:00 pm #

    Oh, you probably already saw this one, but Kevin Zeese reports that my theory has already been thought of-
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29975.htm
    The article is well worth reading.
    “The Tea Party and Occupy Movement are signs of an American revolt – a revolt against a corrupt government that funnels wealth to the top 1% while leaving Americans economically insecure. When I asked McGovern about this, he said he could not see any reason for the domestic use of the military except for the fear of the elites:
    “I think it may be fear. They worry that the DC police, Park Police, even Capitol Police will be subverted into seeing that they are really part of the 99%; that when push comes to shove (literally) they cannot be relied upon to carry out mass arrests/imprisonments; that the powers-that-be need to be able to call on the Army, which can be more dependably relied upon to carry out whatever bloody orders may be required at the time.”

  427. wagelaborer December 14, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

    For those people who are aggravating me by falling for the anti-Iranian propaganda, recycled as it is, look at the map of Iran in this link, totally surrounded by US military bases.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29977.htm
    Then read the one about how the US is paying for killers to kill Iranian scientists, blow up Iranian military bases, and other provocative acts.
    And then try to act like some innocent American citizen, being targeted by evil just for being so incredibly good and free.
    Do they hate us because we’re beautiful?

  428. ABSALOM December 14, 2011 at 3:24 pm #

    A disjointed, distorted, spurious and never ending pile of crazy. If any piece of it is true, the entirety of the audio conversation Wilcock offers of the “guy who speaks fluent Japanese” made barely an ounce of sense — and that’s being generous.
    ABSALOM

  429. ABSALOM December 14, 2011 at 4:10 pm #

    A little comic releif for fellow cluster fuckers, enjoy!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=HhOpJumrj4E

  430. DeeJones December 14, 2011 at 4:18 pm #

    “My bet, it is a long term degradation that destroys a valuable part of Japan, not just in a big bang news worthy event.”
    The Big Bang has already happened.Its the long, slow part that is going on now, but its insidious as you can’t see the radiation, but when the Japanese start having two-headed babies (again), they might catch on that the ‘incident’ was actually worse than their government let on. Of course by then it is way too late. Has the Japanese government evacuated the area around Fuckushima for hundreds of miles? No? Then they are screwed.
    Ummm…. that sushi sure was good, but I’m getting a little heartburn. Whats good for radiation poisoning?
    :/

  431. anti soak December 14, 2011 at 4:37 pm #

    Michigan: Christians banned from delivering tracts on sidewalk
    After all, Dearborn is 30% Muslim, and they don’t go for that sort of thing. “It’s ironic that while Americans are applauding the free speech exercised by hundreds of thousands of Muslims on the streets of Iran, the city of Dearborn is restricting free speech rights Christians are attempting to exercise on the city’s public sidewalks.”
    [thanks jihad watch.com]

  432. Vlad Kramps December 14, 2011 at 4:47 pm #

    Oh Vladdie! You say the cutest things! Smooch, smooch!

  433. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2011 at 4:53 pm #

    Leib me alone – Greta Garbo.

  434. bossier22 December 14, 2011 at 4:54 pm #

    Prog you forgot no welfare after two kids and rewards for sterilizations.

  435. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2011 at 4:59 pm #

    Naw, people only change when they have to. It’s more like Perish and then Paradigm Shift. Not an either or, but an if then.

  436. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2011 at 5:01 pm #

    As Capt Kirk said, What? Die of something you can’t see? Just so, a Society slowly dies as it is infiltrated by alien races.

  437. messianicdruid December 14, 2011 at 5:28 pm #

    Thanks for at least commenting on something that matters instead of feeding the trolls.
    This seems to mostly make sense to me: {from the link}
    “If there’s anything our country needs right now, it’s someone who can help bring some unity back to the country – mainly via the fact that first and foremost he wants to massive slash or completely eliminate most of the military-industrial complex.
    I may be overstating this slightly, but I believe if you polled most liberals they would be virtually unanimous in agreeing that ending all wars and foreign aid to corrupt leaders for business interests would be considered an ideal for any candidate’s platform.
    Furthermore, he accomplishes this via one of the right’s biggest goals – reducing the size of government.
    Combine that with the fact that he is completely unafraid to agree or disagree with either party as long as his ideology remains consistent, and now he begins to attract that portion of “The Middle” that has tuned out because so many politicians will sacrifice ideology for support & money from powerful interests such as Corporations, Wealthy “One-Percenters” who can buy their way into office or influence policy, labor unions, etc.
    Seriously, who else could unite all of these groups? No one. The only problem is that so few people ACTUALLY BELIEVE HE CAN WIN.
    Case in point – while I think he was could have been better as governor, Independent Jesse Ventura rose massively in polls late in the 1998 Presidential Election.
    Once people actually believed he could win, an avalanche of support came through for him in the final days and gave him the victory [I was one of those who didn’t want to “throw my vote away”. ].
    The point is that people are starting to pay more attention to Ron Paul – and this added attention is stealthily increasing every day.
    I must admit that this lifelong liberal is not strongly considering for Ron Paul even as a write-in candidate and especially if he runs as an Independent or Libertarian.
    Why? Because of all of my liberal dreams for humanity and the world, they seem to be more possible with a leader who is definitely right-of-center.
    My opinion is that Pacifism is the belief most commonly shared amongst liberals in the U.S., which is a positive which vastly outweighs many negatives for him in the eyes of those on the left.”

  438. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2011 at 5:33 pm #

    They built a big Mosque in Texas and then told the local pig farmer to leave. Instead he started having Pig races every Friday – naming the contestants Ali, Mohammad etc. Compare this with the despicable Brits who banned PIGGY BANKS so as not to “offend” those whom everything offends.
    Russell Simons is outraged that Lowes stopped advertising during that Muslim Reality Show – some BS about how totally American they are. He threatened Lowes with legal action – I mean WTF?! Katie Perry needs to sit on his face and shut this fool up.

  439. k-dog December 14, 2011 at 5:40 pm #

    The trouble is, once you perish it is kind of hard to make the paradigm shift. Real hard.
    Put me in the big white doghouse and I’ll do all the paradigm shifting for you. Actually that’s not quite true. I’m going to get everyone else to do the shifting. My job is just to get them working.

  440. k-dog December 14, 2011 at 6:22 pm #

    And the last time she had a spliff was when?

  441. k-dog December 14, 2011 at 6:24 pm #

    We had one who never inhaled. What we need now is one who never exhaled.
    Me.

  442. Widespreadpanic7 December 14, 2011 at 6:59 pm #

    Hey AntiSoak you better be careful what you say about the Muslims. Those f—-rs are beyond reproach! Besides they might show up at your house and stab you to death, like they did in Holland to Van Gogh’s great-nephew.
    Here on CFN you can hammer Christians and Jews till the cows come home. Muslims … forgetaboutit!!!
    —WSP7

  443. charliefoxtrot December 14, 2011 at 7:00 pm #

    serious shit if ANY of it is true…THOUSANDS OF TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS???!!! %85 of the world s gold? and why does it all start to make sense…? i can t fucking wait to see if the lawsuit makes even alternative media…I STRONGLY SUGGEST ALL OF YOU TRUE CF’dNation READ THE LINK, before it is erased; given its content i doubt jhk can leave it; if he does my respect for his cojones can only grow absolom is a troll

  444. Widespreadpanic7 December 14, 2011 at 7:07 pm #

    Did the owsers manage to shut down the west coast ports yesterday? Suddenly it disappeared from the news. Are the ship loads of merchandise from China once again getting thru to Walmarts and Best Buys across the USA?
    Pretty soon it will be time for JHK to make his yearly predictions. I hope he doesn’t predict the Dow falling to 4000 again this year.
    –WSP7

  445. k-dog December 14, 2011 at 7:11 pm #

    Why? Because of all of my liberal dreams for humanity and the world, they seem to be more possible with a leader who is definitely right-of-center.
    The greatest danger to the future of humanity is the good and the just. Whatever harm the wicked may do it is the harm of the good and the just that we should fear most.
    Once there was a man who on seeing the good and the just hard at work at their money changing tables became so enraged at their blindness he turned over all the tables in the temple and changed history.
    The sublime depths of the stupidity if the wise makes them Pharisees unable to see the evil living in their own hearts. The good and the just will strike down all those who would follow their own virtue to create something new. Those who create, these people the Pharisees surely hate the most because anything created is new and in opposition to what already is.
    If you want to guarantee that we won’t have any paradigm shift at all vote for someone “right-of-center“.
    If you want real change vote for k-dog.

  446. charliefoxtrot December 14, 2011 at 7:11 pm #

    k-dawg, sorry to bust yer bubble, but republican jon kyle already beatcha to it…do not fear, you already have my full and unwavering support, and as your drug czar, would be able to contribute mightily to yours and everyone s oxygen exchange…

  447. k-dog December 14, 2011 at 7:14 pm #

    That’s good because this not exhaling bit is turning me blue.

  448. k-dog December 14, 2011 at 7:22 pm #

    Should be: The sublime depths of the stupidity of the wise.

  449. IxNoMor December 14, 2011 at 7:26 pm #

    Wow, 6969’s back with a wall-of-spam vengeance, and about 3-4 sock puppets to boot (tegmark, 8man, old69, chongerso).
    Getting back on topic?:
    “The world has run out of money, that is credible money of the type that represents real wealth, and yet is up to its ears in paper representations of putative wealth-like stuff: mortgages, credit default swaps, Gold ETFs, synthetic CDOs, naked shorts, bonds of all sorts.”
    That’s something that has been rattling around in my (vacuum of a) brain for months now. Dylan Ratigan and Matt Taibbi have spelled out this $600+ trillion dollars of worthless *toxic debt collateral* for a long time. However, it took me a while to understand the whole (lack of a) financial banking system, being subverted to wholesale investment gambling (against clients).
    I’m even of the opinion that most of these investment vehicles (shorts/options/derivatives/etf’s – haha 2 ton death-metal coffins) are not “zero-sum”, as they should be, by mathematical definition. I believe there are arithmetic flaws in their *investment models*, resulting in inflationary residuals, which can be severely exploited through high volume (70% of market trades) short-term “milli-second” computerized *MANIPULATION*. In other words, *skimming* (extracting) money from everyone else’s actual stock investments.
    I’m so glad JHK touched on this, and spelled it out in such a *familiar* fashion, for me. It means many things to me, none of which you will ever *extract* from my brain (but 3-4 things you could *synthesize*, if’n you’re paying attention).
    I had a friend who took his wife back to Japan about 1 month ago, for a vacation. I warned him ahead of time, and I was surprised he didn’t ban me outright (those materialistic, closed-minded consumer Americans!). Japan will NOT kill their tourism by telling the truth about Fukushima. I’m thinking about vacationing in Bikini Atoll – WTF, only 70 megatons +++ detonated there. I figure the sunsets would be *glowing*…

  450. charliefoxtrot December 14, 2011 at 7:44 pm #

    Ix- check out the link mess posted at 3:05^

  451. k-dog December 14, 2011 at 7:45 pm #

    Did the owsers manage to shut down the west coast ports yesterday? Suddenly it disappeared from the news. Are the ship loads of merchandise from China once again getting thru to Walmarts and Best Buys across the USA?
    The plan to shut down the west coast ports was a plant by local media. The real story is that the Occupy Seattle Movement was given notice last Friday to vacate their campground at Seattle Central Community College. They were allowed to stay where they were over the weekend and spent Monday getting ready for Tuesday’s move to their new campground down by the port.
    So “Suddenly it disappeared from the news.” happened because it was put in by the news in the first place and there was no more steam in the phony story to keep it going.
    Apparently the plan worked well. Somebody fell for it and they now can hate the OWSers a little bit more than they did yesterday.
    So how does k-dog know?
    Because I’m here.

  452. k-dog December 14, 2011 at 9:08 pm #

    Charlie,
    I’m sure I can find more interesting work for you to do than that.
    That job is going to be permanently retired in a year or so under restructuring anyway.
    Do you know anything about trains and windmills?
    k-dog

  453. ak December 14, 2011 at 10:05 pm #

    M’Druid,
    It’s quite a story about the Drag0n Family.
    I D/L’d the complaint PDF ( http://divinecosmos.com/media/Keenan_complaint_11-23-2011_SDNY.pdf – 114 pagess, 20mb), and it reads like something from the da Vinci Code or the Bourne Identity.
    I did get a bit confused, though, about how the docs, seized at Chiasso (in 2009), were ever returned to figure in the Zurich meetings in 2010. (I got as far as page 68 so far with minor skipping)
    As the Page 1 of the PDF above states they have 21 days (60 if a govt agency) to respond, we should see if this is dismissed for ‘lacking merit’ or something.
    Also note the original page (link in MD’s post) has several updates today, incl some alleged deth threats – see updates just above the comments section.

  454. messianicdruid December 14, 2011 at 10:22 pm #

    “The good and the just will strike down all those who would follow their own virtue to create something new.”
    “If we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.”
    These “good and just” [their opinion] were not judging themselves by the law. They had set aside the law and replaced it with their own traditions and commandments and doctrines of men. The law is what made them sinners.
    Christians have, for the most part, set aside God’s Law as well, at the teaching of the antinomians and replaced it with man-made stuff. These denominational doctrines, which are for the most part extra-biblical, provide them with a means to feel superior {virtuous compared} to other denominations.
    Leaven of the Pharisees = antinomianism
    Leaven of the Sadducees = materialism
    Leaven of the Essenes = asceticism
    Leaven of Herod = politics

  455. jeff z December 14, 2011 at 10:24 pm #

    greens (veggies that is) will end up being far more useful than greenbacks sometime in the near future
    http://eighthacrefarm.blogspot.com/2011/12/and-some-rays-of-hope.html
    happy hump day fellow doomers

  456. ak December 14, 2011 at 10:30 pm #

    To add to my above post:
    The lawsuit concerns some $145B, in 4%-bearing US bonds (some from 1934), whose present-day value is about $1T.
    From Page 19:

    During the course of its existence over the last century, the Drag0n Family has accumulated great wealth by having provided the Federal Reserve Bank and the United States Government with asset assignments of gold and silver via certain accounts held in Switzerland, for which it has received consideration in the form of a variety of Notes, Bonds and Certificates such as those described in ¶ 2 that are an Obligation of the Federal Reserve System. Upon information and belief, these Bonds have values ranging in the many Thousands of Trillions of United States Dollars, a relatively small portion of which is involved in the claims giving rise to this action.

    Emphasis mine.

  457. anti soak December 14, 2011 at 11:03 pm #

    Yes Jeff but how near?
    2012? 2015?

  458. anti soak December 14, 2011 at 11:08 pm #

    Crimesofthetimes blog:
    Exposing the Criminal Liberal Bias of America’s
    Newspaper of Record
    Tuesday, December 13, 2011
    This Is Rather Amazing:
    A Moroccan Named “Nordine Amrani” Uses Grenades And An AK-47 To Kill Five People in Liège, Belgium Today;
    While In Florence, Italy, A So-Called “Right-Wing Extremist” Kills Two African Illegal Immigrant Trinket Peddlers From Senegal Before Committing Suicide:
    French National TV “TF1” Uses The Latter Killing To Re-Hash Images of Anders Breivik And Other White Male European Killers, Without Ever Talking About The North-African Origins Of The Liege Killer
    If you thought the anti-majority population-replacement propaganda was bad here in the USA, and at the New York Times – Amerika’s Newspaper Of Record – in particular, take heart : it is even worse (a lot worse) in the Old Continent…

  459. progress2conserve December 14, 2011 at 11:23 pm #

    Concerning FEMA camps –
    I keep thinking about the numbers involved.
    A “FEMA” camp, or any other sort of camp – large enough, and organized enough to keep 100,000 people locked away for an indefinite period will be HUGE.
    I’m not saying that FEMA camps don’t exist, but I’m saying they are large, and probably pretty obvious – like old military bases, or old prisons – or new prisons, with a nod to WageL.
    And I do believe that our present Criminal Justice system – local, state, and federal – is probably more than capable of handling those who happen to be “detained?” for acts of civil disobedience related to OWS or Occupy Your Street, or Occupy Your Money in BOA, or whatever.
    So, lets say that large FEMA camps exist.
    And lets say that TPTB (aka Federal authorities) have a list of reasons for actually FILLING these FEMA camps.
    For your consideration – I posit that filling these camps with unemployed college graduates from the OWS demonstrations – is probably #99 or #100 on the PTB list – of likely uses for these FEMA camps.
    #1 or #2 on the list – and far more likely –
    Some sort of natural or, more likely, MAN MADE disaster that renders large portions of any medium or large city uninhabitable.
    Natural disaster? – think Katrina, but think of things that could be larger in scope. Massive Earthquake, perhaps? Something like the New Madrid Quake – except at today’s population densities.
    Or if you really want to lose sleep, GOOGLE “Yellowstone Super volcano,” and tell me you think a few FEMA camps could handle the repercussions of an event like that.
    Man made disaster? – it would take one SMALL “dirty bomb” of a barely carcinogenic or nuclear variety – to render several square MILES of a city evacuated, and probably uninhabitable for months or years.
    =====================
    Wow! And I was feeling like such an optimist, just this morning.

  460. ABSALOM December 14, 2011 at 11:25 pm #

    Asoka,
    Glad you too spotted what was a glaringly ridiculous claim, one of many wildly intriguing though obviously specious statements in that piece. I thought it was telling from the outset that Wilcock was another New Ager flake, and that he actively receives messages from the source energy voice of the universe 🙁 What a freak show, and this goober didn’t hesitate to plug his own pseudo-science “creative” nonfiction?? book at the end of his Glen Beck inspired red herring screed.
    Good to know a few posters here can read critically and with a skeptics eye, unlike this blind believing sorry clown:
    =============================
    “serious shit if ANY of it is true…THOUSANDS OF TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS???!!! %85 of the world s gold? and why does it all start to make sense…? i can t fucking wait to see if the lawsuit makes even alternative media…”
    –charliefoxtrot AKA charlieisfukingnutz–
    =================================
    “If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.”
    ? W.C. Fields
    Sheesh, this pathetic old man(charlieisfukingnutz) truly shit the bed when he read that interview dialogue. Like he was watching an episode of X files or some shit.People who can’t think for themselves really will believe anything they’re told, given the right timing and circumstance — Amazing.
    ABSALOM

  461. James Hansen December 14, 2011 at 11:27 pm #

    I hardly see how the events in Japan are theoretical, 600 tons of out of control coriums is as real as you can get.It is a grand experiment, which nobody knows the outcome.
    It seems any discussion about Fukushima upsets most people and they really do not want to be informed at all. I brought it up here because I can not do it in real life. Getting just four or five responses feels like a success to me. I am not trying to change the tone here, this is just one subject amongst many. I must say this is one hell of a site, the number of literate and intelligent people here is impressive. It has gotten better as time goes on.

  462. metuselah December 14, 2011 at 11:31 pm #

    Max Keiser is a god damn reptilian!
    http://goo.gl/kL2KK

  463. progress2conserve December 14, 2011 at 11:34 pm #

    “Prog you forgot no welfare after two kids and rewards for sterilizations.”
    -bossier, adding to P2C birth control ideas-
    Good ideas, bossier – both of which I would happily advocate, on a personal level.
    Although, those one of those two ideas may stray too far into “political incorrectness,” to find acceptance among what passes for leadership at the National level.
    I believe birth control education, plus easy access to GOOD birth control – would render the “huge family on welfare” less of a problem.
    Pay for vasectomy, however?
    Or pay for tubal ligation?
    – both are FANTASTIC ideas!
    Where do I go to contribute?

  464. progress2conserve December 15, 2011 at 12:00 am #

    Concerning Fukushima daiichi –
    James, I appreciate your trying to keep this issue on the front burner for CFN. And you should like this link, too:
    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v480/n7377/full/480313a.html
    My first thought concerning Fukushiima is regret for the Japanese people. My second thought – is that I’m glad I’m here, on the Eastern seaboard of the United States, and not there.
    It’s ironic that Obama and the gang were pushing full speed ahead toward next generation nuclear power in the US – when Fukushiima came along. In a logical world – this would have interrupted their plans. Do you think we live in a logical world. (In a logical world you would think the US Powers That Be would WANT Iran to have a nuclear power generating plant, too. Logic is in the eye of the beholder AND varies according to the situation, apparently.)
    ===================
    With all of that being said, and especially being here and not there – I’m having a hard time getting overly exercised about Fukushiima. First of all, there’s not a thing I can do about it.
    Second, and maybe more importantly – I grew up drinking radioactive milk, hiding under those magical school desks that would stop atomic blasts –
    And I am still supposed to be mortally afraid of eating pure white snow – which almost never falls where I live.
    Screw it. As soon as it snows, I’m gonna’ make a big bowl of snow ice cream. Then I’m gonna’ sip on a Wild Turkey Bourbon and snow water – and wait for the end of time.
    Or maybe I’ll just look forward to glowing softly in the night – so I won’t need a nightlight to find my slippers.
    But keep posting James.
    If Fukushiima is as bad as it could be –
    That has grave implications for power generation in the United States – sooner or later.

  465. James Hansen December 15, 2011 at 12:02 am #

    I just read this on the HP, Indefinite Detention Bill No Longer Faces Veto Threat From White House.
    We are officially a fascist police state clusterfuck nation!

  466. k-dog December 15, 2011 at 12:10 am #

    I think this is one of the 1% guys what do you think?
    Peter Bruce Lilley
    A man educated in physics making obscenely gross underestimates of the effect of CO2 on global warming.

  467. k-dog December 15, 2011 at 12:18 am #

    No shit
    Indefinite Detention Bill No Longer Faces Veto Threat From White House
    Looks like we didn’t make to Christmas after all. JHK was right and now we have to fight.

  468. k-dog December 15, 2011 at 12:20 am #

    No shit
    Indefinite Detention Bill No Longer Faces Veto Threat From White House
    Looks like we didn’t make it to Christmas after all. JHK was right and now we have to fight.
    That’s better.

  469. ak December 15, 2011 at 12:36 am #

    I’m dismayed by the many posters’ here dismissal of Dr. Paul.
    There’s a consistent man, a constitutionalist, that proposes a change from the business-as-usual, likely helpful to the masses (and very scary to TPTB and their minions at the MSM), but many of the sheep-people take their cues from the MSM and bad-mouth him. Why?
    I D I O T S !
    Re
    – Asoka: he’s on the govt dole – not so, he doesn’t even participate in the ‘Congress Retirement Plan’
    – HHighwater: abortion – he’s an obstetrician, for crying out loud. Abortion is a States’ Right, not Fed. BTW, try to rate the prestige/standing of an abortionist v. obstetrician in the different medical specializations, if you will.
    – Abs: he wouldn’t last – just vote for a ‘winner,’ would you? He’s a ‘pacifist/isolationist’ – oh, come on. He’s for ‘fair’ (not ‘free’) trade and not giving in to the military-industrial complex: they’re ones that would lose, hence the smears.
    The rest of you: please find out what Ron Paul stands for from his words, not the ‘official’ version. I, for one, think no one (except Kucinich) has even came close.
    Check his website: http://ronpaul2012.com without prejudice, please

  470. James Hansen December 15, 2011 at 12:41 am #

    First they come up with 22 forms of torture, now it is no charges,no trial,no lawyers and no phone call. Into the hole you go,never to come back. Even when other countries did this shit they did not talk about it. We have to have it go through Congress and have the President of The United States Of America sign it into the law of the land!
    Am I on a bad acid trip or what.

  471. old69 December 15, 2011 at 2:47 am #

    With regards to the thesis :
    ” How an Excess Capacity – Technological Economy implies Free Salaries, Cheap Rents, and Huge Private Public Projects (Rockets to Mars and Skyscrapers) as the only way Forward”
    Alexandra and San Jose Mommy (and her hot teenage chick who will present it to her “social studies” class in high school) are working on, you may need to insert the following:
    Confusing Words
    Think! The problem is that the debts (which should be called Extra Free Wealth Generated by Excess Capacity produced by a High Productivity Technological Economy) have to be “paid back”: but this implies that a linear cause and effect, a simple linearity between money and “work”, “activities” is still operating. But this is no longer operating anymore and has been gradually disappearing for decades now: for example, you have a trillion dollars of debts to pay back and you imagine, you make believe that in the “future” there will be some equivalent work, activities people will perform, inputs -> manipulations -> outputs that will performed and that should be “valuable”, should relate to other things that are more obviously and clearly valuable like concrete things like houses and cars for example (or food, or water, or energy) but no one really knows what on earth will be equivalently valuable when the production of really valuable things like cars and houses and energy has been optimized, is continually being optimized, can be done with fewer and fewer workers and we often already have too many of such items (like 15 million empty homes in the USA, and maybe 20 million empty homes across Europe from Lisbon to Moscow).
    In other words, the imagined future work that should compensate the debts just isn’t NEEDED and just can’t be INVENTED no matter how hard you try. It seems that the world has tens of trillions of dollars of debts, but just one trillion dollars would be equivalent to 10 million jobs being paid 10,000 dollars a year (which is a pretty high salary in most of the world) for 10 years: now what activity, what jobs are available ? How can those number of jobs be available to “pay back the debts” ? Exactly what informational or physical transformation, input -> manipulation -> output will 10 million people do for 10 years everyday for 8 hours that will be equivalently worth their salary ? No one knows, no one thinks about it, but according to the Standard Economic Model it will be solved by the Invisible Hand of the market, but the invisible hand is doing the exact opposite: it is cutting as many jobs as possible since a Technological Economy is all focused on getting more for less, optimizing, automating, using Computers and Internet to cut costs which means jobs (else why invest in innovation and research if you can’t cut costs (which really means jobs) ?).
    So, obviously there is no way that the debts will ever be paid back by “work”: but then this is the logical error, the debts are not really debts, they really represent the “excess wealth generated by the excess capacity” the system generates and can give out freely without actually needing any pay back time hence any corresponding pay back work: it is like pretending you can stop eating for a year and then at the end of the year you eat 100 meals to compensate (or eat 100 meals in one day and not eat for a year), but that doesn’t make sense, the economy is a process, a steady state process that doesn’t work according to that absurd logic: so this can only mean, mathematically, logically, that the debts are not really debts, but the exact opposite: wealth, free lunches, free money.
    But the Standard Economic Model cannot accept this, it is too tied up to an 18th century model of “you have to deserve it”, “you have to work for it”, they are still tied up to a simple linear cause and effect model of the economy, like “more work means more wealth”, they are still tied up to a “Protestant Work Ethic” view of life, but the Technological Economy, being an automatic process has hosed the entire model, has crashed that computer program and no one understands what is going on.
    AN APE

  472. tegmark December 15, 2011 at 2:54 am #

    Some corrections so you can copy and paste it…
    From:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=177613
    Think! The problem is that the debts (which should be called Extra Free Wealth Generated by Excess Capacity produced by a High Productivity Technological Economy) have to be “paid back”: but this implies that a linear cause and effect, a simple linearity between money and “work”, “activities” is still operating. But this is no longer operating anymore and has been gradually disappearing for decades now: for example, you have a trillion dollars of debts to pay back and you imagine, you make believe that in the “future” there will be some equivalent work, activities people will perform, inputs -> manipulations -> outputs that will performed and that should be “valuable”, should relate to other things that are more obviously and clearly valuable like concrete things like houses and cars for example (or food, or water, or energy) but no one really knows what on earth will be equivalently valuable when the production of really valuable things like cars and houses and energy has been optimized, is continually being optimized, can be done with fewer and fewer workers and we often already have too many of such items (like 15 million empty homes in the USA, and maybe 20 million empty homes across Europe from Lisbon to Moscow).

  473. charliefoxtrot December 15, 2011 at 3:20 am #

    i suppose i deserved that, sorry i won t just throw the ‘t’word around in future; at least not without a second thought…look i think it is awesome if somebody is really sueing effectively the entire financial boondoggle; it doesn t matter whether i believe the claims doesn t really matter- it happens i don t, necessarily- and when i recommend something, i don t necessarily believe all of the content…make up your own mind, and post your 2%…again, sorry to offend…

  474. ak December 15, 2011 at 3:35 am #

    Things are getting better:
    Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income
    By Hope Yen
    Associated Press / December 15, 2011
    WASHINGTON—Squeezed by rising living costs, a record number of Americans — nearly 1 in 2 — have fallen into poverty or are scraping by on earnings that classify them as low income.

    Link

  475. vnrwandkhb December 15, 2011 at 3:39 am #

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  477. 8man December 15, 2011 at 4:18 am #

    OWSers are Reactionary Thugs
    I read often that they associate themselves with the greens, environmentalists, climate change doomsters (doomsters of all kinds), etc. Especially anti-consumerist, anti-industrial, anti-progress, anti- technology and anti-science mostly. Well, tell me exactly what will this bring ? Mostly ever more poverty to the 99 %, mostly ever more concentration of wealth to the 1 %, a worsening of all of the economic wealth and well being of most people worldwide, etc.
    And why is this ? Why are they so fixed on hating consumerism and an economic system that wants to bring comforts and toys and well being, leisure, fun and happiness to as many people as possible ? Because they have a kind of religious, mostly right wing (but are unaware of how reactionary and backwards they really are) fervor against pleasure, they hate the idea that humanity can advance with technology and science, they want to go back to a “simpler time” which really means the stone ages, as much real poverty as possible by taking away as many advances and comforts as possible, because the consumerism and goods and comforts are “ethically bad”, “are the devil”, “have something bad associated with them”, etc.
    Everything is a threat, any kind of energy generation is a threat, atomic energy is looked upon as the devil, everything is bad, in essence, what they really hate is people, they hate people living better lives: they think that in some magical way, getting rid of consumerism, industry, energy, cars they will do the 99 % a favor: nothing further from the truth, this will just make them dirt poor, will create even greater pain for most people, but that is what they really want, they want to punish everyone because the Technological Economy gave the masses comforts which according to them “they don’t deserve” because “they harm nature”.
    I can’t believe how idiotic all these greens, doomsters, climate change doomsters and all really are: we need the exact opposite, we need ever more projects, developments, consumption, atom energy, Rockets to Mars, we need the opposite of what the OWSers want.
    All of the technical and scientific problems that production imposes on the environment can be solved (even though perfection is impossible to obtain, and you will never solve all problems everywhere and for all time once and for all) or at least can be contained by using a progressive – futuristic ideology, by applying ever more technology, not by condemning technology.
    But the OWSers (now firmly stable in the green movements, anti-consumerist, where most of the left usually is also, I can’t believe how warped their priorities are) are mostly bored brats that want a cause to fight for, superstitious idiots that are afraid of what they don’t understand (technology, atom energy, progress, etc.), old hags, old craps, and what better cause to fight than the boring stability of consumerism and the boring move forward that the automatic economy produces ? They are bored, they need an enemy, they need an imagined boogeyman, they need to fight against any technology and progress, what turds, hate them with all your guts, they are fascists, extreme right stone age apes, they don’t want what we really need: free salaries, scott free hand outs, trillions of skyscrapers, rockets to mars, the future, progress, projects, production, trillions of 1966 oldsmobile 98s!
    Peak oil is false, it is only carbon chemistry and science will find many alternatives, resources can be recycled and recreated by science, we are going ever forward in all sectors, but the greens – OWSers are failed jealous losers, they are envious miserable losers that hate the progress other men are performing.
    And then, it is so easy to be against cars and atom energy and have this anti-consumerist stance, anything that goes wrong and presto they are all alert showing how bad everything is, so old and tired, same old crap going on since the early 1960s, what c*cks, I can’t believe it!
    TOBOR AN APE MAN

  478. IxNoMor December 15, 2011 at 5:43 am #

    “Man made disaster? – it would take one SMALL “dirty bomb” of a barely carcinogenic or nuclear variety – to render several square MILES of a city evacuated, and probably uninhabitable for months or years.”
    Anyone gathering up all those depleted uranium warheads/ordinances in Iraq/Afghanistan? Grind that sh!t into dust! It would make for a *great* dirty bomb dispersal, courtesy of the US of A!!!
    Who says you have to *pay*, for what you can find for *FREE*. Yeah, and add my name to the “list”, since I dropped all those warheads *ALL BY MYSELF*…

  479. IxNoMor December 15, 2011 at 6:11 am #

    “For those people”
    As I told you already – you and me – we are the *SAME*!!!
    Hehe, I know, you hate to admit it. As the globe superheats and boils off our atmosphere, here we are, *ARGUING*.
    Those who need to read the *truth*, will not – it is only the *choir* (tell me that is spelled correctly, Q!) that takes “note”.
    We only talk to ourselves, as all the rest of *them* continue their daily *DESTRUCTION*. Yes, *DESTRUCTION* – they know no other way to get through the “DAY”!!!

  480. IxNoMor December 15, 2011 at 6:12 am #

    Day – Way – *Rhymes*!!! Time for a *SONG*… Zzz…

  481. IxNoMor December 15, 2011 at 6:17 am #

    “Am I on a bad acid trip or what”
    You are one of us – the *CHOIR*. We preach to *OURSELVES*.
    Do you want to join me in Bikini Atoll? I would like you to come and witness it!!!

  482. IxNoMor December 15, 2011 at 6:22 am #

    “Then I’m gonna’ sip on a Wild Turkey Bourbon and snow water – and wait for the end of time.”
    This is a *FUKIN’* man after my own heart – are you gay – we should get *MARRIED*!!! I’m not gay – but I’m willing to exploit marriage!!!

  483. IxNoMor December 15, 2011 at 6:27 am #

    “I must say this is one hell of a site, the number of literate and intelligent people here is impressive. It has gotten better as time goes on. ”
    There’s a reason we all come back here, time after *TIME*…
    And the message never *really* changes (except when you get douche-bags like 6969 or Asoka or Vlad). It’s all pretty *CUT AND DRY*.

  484. lbendet December 15, 2011 at 7:49 am #

    Re: this site
    At the very worst we are witnesses of our moment in time. Right-wing, left-wing. I think the majority of people posting here actually care about the fact that we are living on a precipice and we all worry that the terra firma mooring under our feet is about to disintegrate.
    Talking about Fukishima is very in step with this site, so nobody should have complained about Hanson changing the subject. It hasn’t disappeared just because the MSM doesn’t talk about it in the daily soap opera they call the news.
    The expansion of the Patriot act and the Citizen’s United should have us all fighting to turn these things back–things are getting progressively worse since 9/11 in this country.
    As for Fema camps: How in the world would all those people be taken care of