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The abiding enigma of this tormented era remains: why has the thinking class of America abandoned thinking? The answer is: it’s the reaction to their own failure. Failure to do what? To produce the utopia that Gnostic liberalism promised — a perfect world based on altering human nature.

The result is an essentially religious hysteria, like the witch frenzies of Medieval Europe that were sometimes provoked by ergot poisoning — a fungus with toxic psychotropic properties that grew on the harvested rye, inducing frightful hallucinations in the villagers, who then lashed out at their perceived supernatural antagonists. Trump in our time is the ergot on the bread of our politics. And Russia is the witch.

Like other operations of the human mind, this collective fugue-state has a big subconscious module in it: the deep, poorly articulated fear that the signal notion of Progress behind progressive politics in the industrial era has reached a dead end. The world is clearly not becoming a better place, but rather reeling into disorder and ecological crisis, despite all the rational programs and politics of modern democracy, and political failure is everywhere.

The “peace dividend” promised by the end of the cold war has degenerated into endless war. The miraculous promises of medicine have been hijacked by “health care” racketeering now institutionalized under ObamaCare. The Civil Rights campaign begun in the 1950s with the most earnest, hopeful intentions (and generous policies) has produced off-the-charts black crime rates, educational defeat, ruined cities, and epic rancor. The middle class has been left economically shipwrecked by the promises of globalism. The pledge of a happy retirement dissolves as the pension funds roll over and die. And the supposed paragon of enlightened American governance morphs into a sinister and corrupt Deep State of oligarchical corruption.

In the background of all this are even more disturbing quandaries and prospects: population overshoot, mass migration from regions that can’t support these numbers of people, extinctions of animal species, the death of the oceans, climate instability. The practical problems of economy approach an event horizon of energy scarcity, runaway debt from trying to mitigate it, and eventual collapse of our day-to-day hyper-complex economic arrangements. These things are so scary that the thinking classes — except for a minority of nerdy scientists — can’t even bear to think about them.

Instead, we have the Gnostic drive to alter human nature, which has terminated in the preoccupation with abolishing sexual identity — the fantasy that we will (and ought to) throw off the shackles of biology and rise into a sort of “trans-human” nirvana. Just behold the amount of “ink” that The New York Times has spilled reporting on the triumphs of transexualism in the past year.

It’s not surprising that some of the worst thinking, the most obviously tortured theological hallucinations, emanate these days from the universities — the places where young, developing intellects are supposed to be molded. Instead of free inquiry, they now offer intellectual martial law, chained to sets of ersatz metaphysics. “Victim” ideas run wild because malign supernatural powers are in play against the faculty hierophants on the elite campuses, charged with interpreting the sacred mysteries and esoteric principles of “post-structural” (reality-optional) thought. The quandaries of “minority” America have resolved in the simple superstitious idea that demonic forces of “white male privilege” and ubiquitous, implacable misogynistic racism are entirely responsible for the woes and sorrows of the world, and the failure of progress in particular.

The failures of US-sponsored economic globalism now focus on the ur-demon (the Satan!) called Russia. Apocalyptic battle with the greatest monster of the imagination is the ultimate struggle in outbreaks of religious frenzy, and America has a ripe history of engaging with the Devil. It’s bad enough when it breaks out in a tiny colonial settlement like Salem, Massachusetts, in the 1600s. There only a few dozen people were persecuted and destroyed. It’s another matter on the global stage today when you engage a perceived “Satan” like Russia, which truly can rain holy Hell back on you if you push your hallucinated animus too far.

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403 Responses to “Holy Hell”

  1. Phutatorius July 14, 2017 at 9:50 am #

    I see that you’ve bought into the Eric Voegelin/Russel Kirk private vocabulary that equates liberalism with utopianism and “gnosticism.” It’s not that I disagree with the substance of your comments so much as I disagree with this rather dicey conflating of diverse notions.

    • DA July 14, 2017 at 10:06 am #

      Elaborate. Seems like an apt comparison to me.

      • DA July 15, 2017 at 9:38 am #

        The gnosticism analogy works in that the current masters of the universe claim to possess a unique divine knowledge of sorts that allows their vision of the future to be superior to all of ours, when in fact the only thing they possess is just superior cleverness in the art of making and hoarding money, and thus, power. No surprise then that many of them belong to Secret Societies that proclaim that sort of shit either.

    • 100th Avatar July 14, 2017 at 10:25 am #

      The religion of progress. As though we are on some linear time march where time elapsed equates with “progress”. The illogical assumption that time demands progress, where progress equals things being better where things being better are totally subjective and humancentric and speciesist. And just like all religions: totally absurd.

      • shotho July 14, 2017 at 5:05 pm #

        What is totally absurd is the idea of no transcendence and nothing eternal; not God, man and the universe. Only man and the universe. So, why not equate time with progress? What would you prefer, time is only regression in human affairs?

        • 100th Avatar July 15, 2017 at 1:47 pm #

          big bang, big crunch, big bang, big crunch, big bang, big crunch in universes within universes within universes. Transcendent enough for you?

    • Piper Michael July 14, 2017 at 11:59 am #

      We Gnostics object to your improper context conflation with liberals.
      Atheistic liberalism, or
      Humanistic liberalism, or
      Anthropocentric liberalism, or even
      Mad as Hatters liberalism…

      But Gnostics, in history, were all about seeking truth through the “Divine Knowledge’ that is the root meaning of the word; Gnostic.
      There is nothing holy, or truth seeking about this crowd, only their delusion and their true worship of Mammon/The Idol god of materialism and its base icon; money.
      They are the black horseman, which now fails and falls into ‘a measure of wheat for a dollar, and three measures of barley for a dollar, and spare ye not the oil and the wine’, a fall from the age of enlighenment, into the Green horseman, The Greens in league with Islam… the Death worshipers come.
      And none of them, are Gnostics… remember we were called ‘heretics’ and put to the stake, along with all the books.

      • routersurfer July 14, 2017 at 12:31 pm #

        Truth. Well put.

    • shotho July 14, 2017 at 4:58 pm #

      You make a valid comment, but the neo-liberalism we’re dealing with today springs from the same utopianism that has always perceived the possibility of achieving perfection in human affairs. If only we get the “correct” form of government, we can accomplish wondrous deeds. So, anything that questions the course of this progress is evil in some sort of way. If Russia is that evil thing, then it must be extirpated and anyone associated with it is complicit. As pointed out by the author, in that way lies madness.

  2. 100th Avatar July 14, 2017 at 10:18 am #

    Their strategy for dealing with the reality of the human situation and its limitations: alter it, eliminate it. The problem is our biology. Well then, remove it.

  3. janet July 14, 2017 at 10:23 am #

    Holy Hell! What is all this theology doing here on CFN? Liberalism is not theology, nor utopian.

    Classical liberalism dates from the 18th century, especially in the writings of David Hume. Classical liberalism has a realistic view of human nature, which means that man is seen a mix of rationality and emotion, so humans are not guided by reason alone.

    Individual freedom is the main classical liberal goal and it is best preserved by protecting classical human rights and the rule of law.

    If you are going to insist critical thinking has disappeared, then at least show us how it works… without rhetorical smears and rampant generalization. You could begin by defining what you mean by liberalism, so as to focus your criticism.

    • Cavepainter July 14, 2017 at 10:36 am #

      C’mon, JFK’s remarks here have covered that territory fully, each post resonating with finer point. What you’re demanding is a hedge on behalf of the Left’s sentimentality — a window left open for it’s occult doctrine of human/world perfectibility.

      • 100th Avatar July 14, 2017 at 10:41 am #

        And when the heavens don’t cooperate with man’s plans, well we get Al Gore on the campus guest speaker circuit.

      • Beryl of Oyl July 14, 2017 at 10:45 am #

        You beat me to it – the abandonment of critical thinking and the abandonment by people who call themselves liberal or Democrat of any ideals we used to associate with those things has been clearly illustrated.
        It’s interesting, when I see a word like ‘rhetorical’ being used, it makes me think of how NBC’s Lester Holt, every damn time he reported on Donald Trump during the campaign, used the word “rhetoric” to describe everything Donald said. Almost as if he were following orders from on high.

      • S M Tenneshaw July 14, 2017 at 7:27 pm #

        JFK? He’s dead, Jim.

    • TPTB-USA July 14, 2017 at 10:58 am #

      Why would an individual that does not have “a pot to piss in”, pay another individual (an artist) to use their body as a canvas?

      Seems to me that the “mix of rationality and emotion” has evolved to 1% – 99%.

      I suppose that this is what James is pointing out, that insanity is the result when a liberal society evolves to the point where there are no answers.

      • Beryl of Oyl July 14, 2017 at 11:11 am #

        Someone said it’s because their body is the only thing they own.

      • 100th Avatar July 14, 2017 at 11:57 am #

        Humans are the only species that have to reconcile their emotions with reality. Acceptance is not an emotion, but acquiescence may be.

    • Phutatorius July 14, 2017 at 11:03 am #

      janet – you ask how the theology entered the discussion; you could take a look at “The Conservative Intellectual Movement In America” by George H. Nash (which I recommend) and look up “gnostic” in the index. Or check out Eric Voegelin or Russell Kirk’s non-fiction work.

    • draupnir July 14, 2017 at 11:38 am #

      Janet, names, of course, have power, and your if the definition means one thing to you and another to me it’s not possible to have a meaningful debate.

    • routersurfer July 14, 2017 at 12:37 pm #

      I agree Janet. I am not sure what to think! Are we looking at the trivia in place of the important? SURE!! But so is the “Right.” I see all sides on a Witch Hunt. Driven by the decline our planets oil based economy. We have no center as people or nations.

      • bob July 15, 2017 at 4:51 pm #

        The cabal has three main tentacles political economic and religious and law and education as supporting structures. Religion’s true meaning is union, but the cabal is one of division political economic and religious. Keep the masses immersed in division and they can be exploited,can collapse and extinction be far behind.

    • JimInFlorida July 14, 2017 at 1:24 pm #

      janet, you are NO classic liberal.

      A Frankfurt School leftist or New Leftist, for sure. Anomie is the perverted “individual freedom” of modernist liberals.

      Your idea of “human rights” is whatever empowers the 3rd World to emigrate to the White Western nations and demand equal access to the material benefits. If Whites resist, or even grumble, then that is a violation of “human rights” in your version of liberalism.

      Classic liberals (even Traditionals) view individual freedom as the means to enable legacy White populations to preserve what they’ve inherited and built upon i.e. Western civilization.

      I’ll even add my own two cents that the Rule of Law is not infallible because the Law Makers are easily corrupted and Due Process can be thwarted. Without sound religious doctrine and legitimate religious authority, the Rule of Law is rudderless and can become just as dangerous as a rogue dictator.

      We haven’t seen legitimate Christianity in over a hundred years in the U.S. Only the habits of Christianity carried us through until janet’s counter-culture barbarians invaded the Church in the 1960’s and destroyed its moral authority. THAT was when the Rule of Law began breaking down and, now, ZOG Amerika is in an existential crisis and can’t find its legitimacy to continue.

      • daveed July 14, 2017 at 8:16 pm #

        “We haven’t seen legitimate Christianity in over a hundred years in the U.S.”

        What is it, and where can we find it?

        Sermon on the Mount?
        Spanish Inquisition?
        Ah-h-h….Jazz Mass!

        • JimInFlorida July 15, 2017 at 9:15 am #

          daveed, you have to go back to the days before WW1 to find legitimate Christianity at large in the U.S. In the days of the American Revolution, we had the Black Robe Regiment which represented the epitome of true Christianity in the U.S.

          As for the Catholics, their last stand was with Pope Pius X. He was the last true witness and shepherd of the Faith prior to WW1.

          England was once a powerful engine of Christianity in the 19th century. A glorious time when England was Lily White and full of Light. But, the sowers of Tares never sleep and The Tribe labored to plant the seeds of Great Britain’s destruction, which finally came about after WW2.

      • bibliomaniac July 15, 2017 at 9:22 pm #

        “There was only one Christian, and they caught him early and crucified him.” –Mark Twain

    • toktomi July 15, 2017 at 7:35 pm #

      “Individual freedom is the main classical liberal goal…”

      Being so poorly read I find that to be a very interesting idea.

      “…and it is best preserved by protecting classical human rights and the rule of law. ”

      Just this moment born into my consciousness and already dashed against the rocks of industrial human madness.


    • Exscotticus July 16, 2017 at 1:50 am #

      Why are you strolling down memory lane bringing up classical liberalism when Kunstler has made it very clear that the brand of liberalism he is criticizing is the current one? If you require more clues, reread more carefully and look for the terms progress and progressive.

  4. Cavepainter July 14, 2017 at 10:24 am #

    Reprise of the Dark Ages are upon us. As JHK has described we’ve departed from the empirical to the occult (essentially abandoning the Enlightenment).

  5. Dumbedup July 14, 2017 at 10:32 am #

    Liberalism is no more to blame for our predicament than conservatism. The true aim of liberalism is to improve our condition not create a utopia. The true aim of conservatism is profit. Ayn Rand convinced an entire generation that profit is the highest and greatest good.

    The real problem we face is that both sides of the political dialogue are dominated by radicals bent on reshaping the world the way they believe it should be and to do so they are willing to misrepresent those who oppose them. It has become, “if you don’t believe (and do) as we say then you are the enemy.” This conduct is the progenitor of totalitarianism.

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    • 100th Avatar July 14, 2017 at 10:36 am #

      Improve our condition? Yet who is speaking for us? And what are the universally accepted improvements?

      This is the problem.
      Speak for yourself and presume not.

    • Beryl of Oyl July 14, 2017 at 10:47 am #

      You think there are still two sides?

      • 100th Avatar July 14, 2017 at 11:21 am #

        It’s the sorry state of affairs these days. I dread this overused term, but polish as become totally binary. Right or left. Dem or Rep. The idea of people practicing cafeteria politics is anathema.

        • 100th Avatar July 14, 2017 at 11:22 am #


      • Dumbedup July 14, 2017 at 12:11 pm #

        In current practice no. In terms of ideology yes. Liberalism has its roots in the old Federalist Party of Alexander Hamilton and John Adams. Just as the Republican Party has its roots in Jeffersonianism. Both have been perverted and the dialogue is no longer about, “general welfare” vs limited government. That would be a discussion worth having. It is now about who can shout the loudest and collect the greatest payoff.

        • bibliomaniac July 15, 2017 at 9:25 pm #


    • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 12:02 pm #

      The problem is the system is inherently flawed. Religion and banks are the foundation of this evil, and their connection dates back to Babylon.

    • routersurfer July 14, 2017 at 12:40 pm #

      Our times have changed. Yet we worship the same tired gods that have forgotten us. Good post Dumbedup.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 1:08 pm #

      Improve our condition? Don’t you first have to know what our condition is? What Man is? Too deep while people are starving? Well there are many kinds of “food”. And if all your focus is on bread, don’t be amazed when the eaters demand circuses.

      Letting little kids change their sex on a whim – and the parents who encourage this – is this going in the right direction? Now think it through: If you let kids change their sex, who are you to tell them not to have sex with adults? That’s small in comparison. This whole thing is back door to pedophilia among other things.

      Btw, if you read Russell Kirk, you’d know that true Conservatism isn’t about profit first and foremost. Conservatism has been hijacked as well.

      • thwack July 14, 2017 at 2:46 pm #

        Once the tranny fad has run its course, I predict people will start having tails surgically attached, and claim they feel “canine”.

        They will have a flag and parades…

        and if you don’t march and salute, you will be charged with bigotry and ethnic intimidation.

        This is not a joke, its coming sooner than you think.

        • elysianfield July 14, 2017 at 4:27 pm #

          Once the tranny fad has run its course, I predict people will start having tails surgically attached, and claim they feel “canine”.


          We’ll have poodles

          Already have Sheepdogs (snort!)

          Weiner dogs are easy to typecast

          …what to do with the Pit Bulls?

        • daveed July 14, 2017 at 8:21 pm #

          I’ve always identified as a roadrunner, possibly a meerkat.

    • toktomi July 15, 2017 at 7:44 pm #

      ahh, a true bard – poetry and logic

      I am going to quote you on my meager FB account if I may.


    • Exscotticus July 16, 2017 at 1:59 am #

      You’re right; the true aim of modern progressive liberals is to “improve our condition”. And that’s the problem.

    • Allamadness July 17, 2017 at 7:07 am #

      An article from the Daily Mail, which is an example of where the law is committed to the support of the corporate. We are all locked in to systems, which are, by the devil of complexities, unresponsive to the needs of individuals, no matter how sacrificing those individuals may or may not be.The law can not be expected to be an island inhabited by social justice, when it is buoyed by a sea of injustice. Drain the swamp into that sea?


  6. RobM July 14, 2017 at 10:34 am #

    Why has the thinking class stopped thinking is indeed the most interesting question. I think the answer is inherited denial of reality. Many strange human behaviors begin to make sense in the light of this theory.

    • 100th Avatar July 14, 2017 at 10:39 am #

      They (string theorists) found evidence of self editing blockchain code in the universe. What reality?

    • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 1:11 pm #

      Their fundamental premises are wrong – about race and equality in general. And they simply aren’t able to accept that. They’d rather destroy America and all of Western Civilization than admit they are wrong.

  7. Farmer McGregor July 14, 2017 at 10:40 am #

    Another great post, Jim.
    I’d quote some fine statements from it, but cutting and pasting the whole thing would be silly.

  8. pequiste July 14, 2017 at 10:54 am #

    It is all rather devolved into Leonard Cohen’s “The Future”:


    Perhaps it is just a coincidence here that Russia is just about to go operational with a very large, state-of-the-art thermonuclear device with the appellation of Satan II?


    • pequiste July 14, 2017 at 10:57 am #

      “has devolved” criminy. Sorry.

  9. seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 11:00 am #

    What is amazing is the reaction to the now proven collusion between the lawyer of a money laundering businessman buying property in New York City and the Trump campaign. I have always said that is the story here. Trump is washing money for Russian oligarchs. That will be the next shoe to drop. It keeps getting closer and closer with each drip.

    • Beryl of Oyl July 14, 2017 at 11:04 am #

      I was wondering when someone was going to push the Russia narrative.

      • Piper Michael July 14, 2017 at 4:33 pm #

        Agreed… STOP IT…
        I cannot watch the news anymore… because of the constant crap.
        Do not make it so I cannot access Jim and others…

        • ffkling July 16, 2017 at 4:59 pm #

          There are plenty of alt. right fake news sites for you. The news does not change because you are, “sick to death of it”. Denialism is another option/

    • 100th Avatar July 14, 2017 at 11:14 am #

      Explain, dummy, why a Russian oligarch needs his money “washed”.
      Stream of consciousness conspiracy theorizing has its weaknesses.

      • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 11:20 am #

        Sure retard:
        The Magnitsky Act, officially called “The Russia and Moldova Jackson-Vanik Repeal and Sergei Magnitsky Rule of Law Accountability Act,” was passed by the House of Representatives on November 16, 2012, with a vote of 365 to 43, and the Senate on December 6, 2012, with a vote of 92 to 4. Disappointed with the so-called “reset” policy, which had been instituted in 2009 to positively restructure Russian-American relations, President Obama signed the Magnitsky Act on December 14, 2012.

        Eighteen Russian officials were initially named as ineligible for American visas and liable for the seizure of assets in the United States. Other individuals were added later on; now the list contains some 44 names.

        Interestingly, the Magnitsky bill was attached to a foreign trade bill for Russia that abrogated the 1974 Jackson-Vanik amendment, which had linked the right to free emigration from countries (the Soviet Union and Jewish emigration were the main issues) to Most Favored Nation trade status. Now there would be no generalized limitations on trade between Russia and the United States, which pleased American business lobbies and the Russians, but there would be bans on travel to the United States and prohibitions on the use of American financial institutions placed on specific individuals.

        Vladimir Putin greeted the Magnitsky Act with outrage, indignation, and derision. After all, he stated in an interview, people die in prisons all the time. What was the big deal about Magnitsky? He was already upset that American officials had allegedly interfered in the Russian election process by encouraging anti-Putin demonstrations, thus calling the legitimacy of his election to the Presidency in March 2012 into question. And now he was insulted that loyal members of his administration were criminalized by the Magnitsky Act and limited in their dealings with the West. (The European Parliament adopted a version of the Magnitsky Act in April 2014).

        The only way Moscow could think of retaliating was to ban the widespread adoption of Russian children by American couples in December 2012, pointing to the death of an adopted Russian child, Dimitrii Yakovlev, who had been abused by his American parents and died while being left alone in an overheated automobile in 2012. In April 2013, the Russian government also placed 18 Americans on a list of alleged human rights violators who were banned from Russia.

        • 100th Avatar July 14, 2017 at 11:27 am #

          So of course these Putin friendly “oligarchs” invested in Trump golf courses. It’s all so clear now.

          • 100th Avatar July 14, 2017 at 11:30 am #

            I hope CNN attributes the source to this uncovering to the deserving trailer residing sleuth

        • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 11:37 am #

          This is like passing a seedy motel and you see your wife’s car parked next to your worst enemy’s car in the parking lot. When she gets home you confront her and she says “No honey I was just there talking to him about adoption.”

          • 100th Avatar July 14, 2017 at 11:47 am #

            If you move up in the social hierarchy you will perchance learn that these things don’t take place at seedy hotels, are not a secret, and it matters not the partner in amorous affairs. No confrontation needed, it is freedom of the wealthy.

          • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 11:54 am #

            Donald Trump proves rich isn’t an impediment to being white trash.

      • routersurfer July 14, 2017 at 12:41 pm #

        Even criminals need honest people to hold their money. Got your money in a Russian bank?

        • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 12:45 pm #

          It is the pirate’s dilemma.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 1:15 pm #

      He still wants Hillary! She who was named after Sir Edmund Hillary according to her. But he climbed Everest after she was born – another confabulation of her decayed brain. She’s like my sister: she lies even when she doesn’t have to.

      What can one say of people who vote for people like Hillary or Pelosi? One can understand women doing it – no one expects much of them anymore. But men? The horror. The horror.

      • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 1:23 pm #

        After 6 months of this retard, you don’t?

      • thwack July 14, 2017 at 2:50 pm #

        She’s like my sister: she lies even when she doesn’t have to.



        Thanks Janos, I have a brother like that.

        • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 3:15 pm #

          Trump lies like he breathes.

        • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 5:53 pm #

          Truth is the property of everyone. Ah, but a lie is delicious because it is theirs alone.

      • Tia July 14, 2017 at 4:29 pm #

        Janos do you hate women?

        • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 5:52 pm #

          Does the dog hate the cat, the cat the mouse, or the mouse a piece of cheese? Just so, I love women like I love ice cream. But you must be guided – for the good of society and the happiness of all, you included.

          When you (generic so just relax) hit the Wall, all the attention stops. And it comes on very fast. Maybe once or twice a year I see an attractive middle aged woman over 30. Getting this? You all need to be married with kids well before all this. What is sadder than a middle aged woman in her late 20’s, looks already going, hanging around in bars looking for a husband?

          You all are guided right now – misguided by the Evil Media and those who control it. Career? All that comes later after the kids for the average woman. Exceptions allowed? Of course – but society must be geared towards the average Kathy. Teachers will be taught to be on the lookout for extraordinary girls who don’t fit in or simply can’t accept it. In consultation with their parents, they’ll be taught why we do as we do: taught about the Wall, how Men are by nature, and how the greatest happiness for Kathy is marriage and family. If the girl still can’t accept, then she’ll be guided along a vocational path immediately, perhaps a very high one is she’s gifted. Gifted people often question. Certainly she’ll be encouraged to marry as well (we want those high IQ genes), but special consideration can be made for unusual people both gifted and not.

          • wet dog July 15, 2017 at 6:16 pm #

            There’s a lot of truth to this, and younger ladies should heed it.

            From a man’s point of view, a 30 year old lady is definitely middle-age. The chances of getting married at 35 or 40 drop drastically. And if they do marry, it’s to a schlub.

            I’ve seen this with 3 ex-girlfriends, all of them pretty and slim. They hit ~32 and desperately grabbed the one guy who offered marriage. Two guys were in their mid-30s and had NEVER dated before, while the other had a failed marriage with two small children. Can you believe that? But these girls were desperate and knew, sub-consciously, that time was running out.

            Ladies have the 10 short years in their 20’s to find their happiness: a good man, family, community. Or you can spend those years staring at Excel spreadsheets in a poisonous office, and being used as a sex object. The bitter old women over 40 without family, with estranged snowflakes, popping anti-depressants like jelly beans, are legion. Careers suck, let the man suffer through them, and take care of him as thanks. Be around those you love all day, not the hateful office people.

            Feminists hate the family, hate men, and hate young, happy, pretty girls. Remember that.

  10. rollie July 14, 2017 at 11:04 am #

    Can’t quite get onboard with these last two posts because they depend on the idea of a “thinking class” that doesn’t necessarily exist; and then the assertion is that this class is monolithically liberal, which should piss off any thinking conservative; but no, wait, then the assertion is that this thinking class has stopped thinking, which implies there is no thinking class, which is what I thought before I started reading.

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    • MDG July 14, 2017 at 11:25 am #

      James, progressive politics may not be perfect, but your complaints have more to do with the anti-progressive politics of the Republican party and its allies.

      As for Russia: it may not be a witch, but it is an adversary of the United States and run by a dictatorial thug.

      • Billy Hill July 14, 2017 at 11:46 am #

        exhibit A

        • MDG July 18, 2017 at 11:34 am #

          Not a very thoughtful reply, Billy.

      • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 12:22 pm #

        You know I’m ambivalent on this adversary thing. Why does everyone say that. Can there be treason in the absence of war? For sure even an 11 year old would know not to take aid from Russia in an election. I mean just the optics of it. America fought once against the Russians back in 1920 or something. Like 100 years ago. The Cold War was bullshit. It’s called peace. The Cuban Missile Crisis was more manufactured crap. We’re going to blow up the world over Cuba? Please.

        • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 1:19 pm #

          At last a rational note. What about collusion with Israel? How much foreign Jewish money has effected American elections? Why are you focusing on the only other Western Super Power? It seems like someone want a WW3. These people need to be our friends, or our Civilization is over. You are dancing to a tune and you haven’t even bothered to question who is playing or why.

          What about China? Think the Clintons didn’t take enormous amounts of money from them? What did they get in return?

          • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 1:55 pm #

            Because while Hillary Clinton did sow discourse in Russia during Putin’s election, and probably helped opposition candidates, that’s not supposed to be the way we conduct ourselves here. If he had come clean day 1, would we be here? They colluded. Russia and the Trump campaign colluded. It’s a fact now. Look at the lawyer. Is she known for defending pedaphiles, gangsters or priests? No she is a lawyer known for defending money launderers.

  11. seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 11:24 am #

    Bill Maher did a bit on this. He said Americans no longer have a summer of idiocy, we have idiocy the entire year. It used to be for the school year, you were serious and thoughtful and then let your hair down when school was out. Not anymore. Stupid year round.

    • 100th Avatar July 14, 2017 at 11:33 am #

      He thanks you for proving his point BTW

      • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 11:39 am #

        LMAO You oughta quit your day job and just do stand up.

  12. K-Dog July 14, 2017 at 11:26 am #

    Failure to produce a agnostics liberal utopia is jumping to a conclusion. You confuse a class which actually thinks with establishment intellectuals and the formally educated. The two classes are quite different and your statement is self-serving. One class tends to use their brain and the other their mouth.

    The ergot in our politics is not trump but the deep state who’s CIA literally brought us ergot in the form of LSD-25 if you know the story.

    Progress means different things to different people but the economically blessed want to milk economic progress as long as they can. They pursue their agenda’s to the ultimate detriment of the nation. Fortunately there are those that understand that progress really means making the world a better place.

    “American governance morphs into a sinister and corrupt Deep State of oligarchical corruption.” That actually started with Truman.

    The rest of it seems to be a fervent vision of rightfully condemning those who would change the individual to fit the reality of resource depletion in a collapsing society and those that understand that progress really means making the world a better place.

    Holy Shit – This week it is Kunstler as Nostradamus.

    • K-Dog July 14, 2017 at 11:32 am #

      did not mean agnostics. That was the thought police of a spell checker. gnostic liberal utopia is what I meant to be consistent with this weeks delusion.

      Blaming the failure of our entire society on one class is unfair. The ‘liberal’ class failed but trannies are not ruining the planet. Corporations are. Making them the only scapegoat is self serving.

      • bibliomaniac July 15, 2017 at 9:35 pm #


    • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 12:18 pm #

      Nostra dumb ass?

    • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 12:44 pm #

      Yes I do. Allen Dulles was truly evil, and I think it’s fitting one of the planes on 9/11 came from Dulles Airport, although the namesake was his brother John Foster, who was Secretary of State when Allen was director of the CIA. The first and only time the overt and covert foreign policy of the nation was in the hands of one family.

      • daveed July 14, 2017 at 8:35 pm #

        “The first and only time the overt and covert foreign policy of the nation was in the hands of one family.”

        Excellent….someone’s been doing their homework

    • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 1:25 pm #

      Well said. But I go with Kunstler on this one: the Thinkers have a great responsibility. More than most other classes and professions. Journalism has jettisoned thinkers for talkers. We could reign in the Corporations and still the nuttiness would continue. Don’t try to put all the evil on them – there’s plenty go around.

      Iceland chastised the bankers and drove many of them out. Yet they are committed to 3rd World Immigration which will destroy them in terms of being the traditional Icelandic Nation. Pure Leftist folly. It’s complicated. And a small hole can sink a big ship – or a nation.

  13. FincaInTheMountains July 14, 2017 at 11:27 am #

    Elbe Day 2.0

    So it was held – the first meeting of the presidents of Russia and the United States, and the whole world has ceased to speculate about what will be said by Putin and Trump in Hamburg and now the whole world is speculating about what they actually said.

    I must say that the complete absence of leaks is the main result of this meeting and shows how much Trump has strengthened his power over these six months and succeeded in creating his own special services. Otherwise, it seemed very recently that the US president would soon have to negotiate with the ambassadors and presidents of other countries in the bathroom, after turning on water.

    This new meeting on Elbe, flowing through the free Hanseatic city of Hamburg, lasted 2 hours and 15 minutes instead of half an hour announced during the preparation for this meeting, and the glorious European family of the US president was so worried about him that they begged Melania Trump to knock at the door and ask her husband when he gets ready to say goodbye to his new friends and return home, to NATO.

    It is quite obvious that the collective West became a victim of its own propaganda and decided that Trump must be saved from an influence of a bad company.

    Actually, this surreal did not begin yesterday. Of course, quite recently it was absolutely impossible to imagine the president’s wife shouting from the balcony: “Donald, kick your Russians out and come home for supper!”, and now this can be done relatively easy, including because Melania Trump, at the request of Angela Merkel pulling out her husband from negotiations, did not go too far from Trump, “confronting Putin with the intervention of the Russian state in the US electoral process.”

    Just imagine how Trump in the margins of G-20 screams to Putin: “You pushed Clinton aside and forced me to quit my show and my business and stay in the White House?!” It’s good that he did not file financial claims in connection with the multi-billion dollar losses.

    Meanwhile, the questions surrounding this meeting were quite serious. In the current situation, the presidents of the nuclear superpowers do not meet just in order to meet and chat about this and that. The summit meeting, which is not accompanied by a joint press conference, which announces agreements that ensure the relaxation of international tension, seriously damages the reputation of those who meet, and if they do go on, it can only be about preventing a war in the face of incessant provocations by a third party.

    And the fact that this third party is the “Deep state of the US” means that Putin’s Russia and Trump’s America are de facto allies in the war against the Deep state of the United States, which is de facto the ally of ISIS.

    And maybe not only de facto. And most likely this is exactly what Trump and Putin discussed, sitting together on the banks of the Elbe for 2 hours and 15 minutes.

    • K-Dog July 14, 2017 at 11:34 am #

      It had to have been like a Martian talking to an Earthling. Putin has a brain and Trump does not. What kind of conversation could they have had?

      • FincaInTheMountains July 14, 2017 at 11:44 am #

        You severely underestimate your President, who no doubt was vetted for this position since 1980s and who possesses excellent managerial skills, abilities and experience of leading a Nation that is de facto under bankruptcy.

        • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 11:58 am #

          What has he managed with excellence? A TV show? An ice rink?

          • FincaInTheMountains July 14, 2017 at 12:01 pm #

            His multi-billion dollar business empire that had quite a few rough turns over that time – and he got out in one piece with even bigger empire.

          • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 12:08 pm #

            Baloney. The system created Donald Trump. He got his mojo back with a TV show. He was paid 200 million for that crap. Sure ratings were good, but nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American people.

  14. volodya July 14, 2017 at 11:39 am #

    It’s not so much that the Thinking Class abandoned thinking, it’s that the thinking is by parts disorderly and sloppy and illogical, stuffed full of beliefs that have no connection to reality, that no reasonable person could accept as true.

    The disorder covers so wide a spectrum of topics, areas critical to human survival and well-being, that it looks like a large number of people in positions where it’s their job to THINK, to discern reality, to describe it to us, to impart it to young minds, have instead succumbed to insanity.

    If not for the degrees they wave around, the exalted positions they occupy in colleges, in the judiciary, in legislatures, their burblings would get them locked up. It’s because the psychosis is widely shared among people of similar educational and class background, that occupy similar positions of power and responsibility, that the craziness is accepted among them as reality, that these people collectively manage to stay out of the clutches of the mental health establishment. And it’s also fair to say that the medical and psychiatric profession include themselves in collective Thinking Class delusions.

    Mr Kunstler gave us a list of dogmas in his previous post. The Thinking Class is required to profess belief in these in order to keep their positions in the social pecking order. To the rest of us that live on the street, that need to deal with the real world (unlike the Thinking Classes), these beliefs are what you could generously call bullshit. Or you can more realistically say that these perceptions are nuts and, as such, are dangerous.

    I read somewhere that the Greenland Vikings died off in part because they refused to eat fish. The waters around Greenland were full of fish, fish were practically jumping into their boats. But they wouldn’t eat the fish because it just was not done. See, we better get used to eating fish even if our purported betters tell us not to, for the sake of our own survival. There’s a lot of things we’re going to have to do despite the admonitions of our “betters”. When you’re up against it you do what you have to.

    • ozone July 14, 2017 at 12:09 pm #

      Bingo!, V.
      One cadre of “thinkers”, deserving to have their asses handed to them and be banished to the cleaning of public toilets that you omitted: THINK-tanks! (Understandable omission; it’s simply *too* obvious.)

      • volodya July 14, 2017 at 12:31 pm #

        Exactly, yes, Think Tanks (a ludicrous contradiction in terms). Part of the societal furniture and omitted, because after a while, like furniture, you cease to notice them. But they are shovellers of shit for whatever monied or political interest it is that hired them. They don’t add to understanding but rather detract from it.

    • daveed July 14, 2017 at 8:45 pm #

      Your point is well taken….but it’s hard to imagine Scandinavians having an aversion to fish.

  15. elysianfield July 14, 2017 at 11:40 am #

    Mr, Kunstler,

    THIS is, by far, your best, most concise, tightest, reality-based description of what America is today. I am humbled.

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    • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 1:29 pm #

      Agree. A thousand thumbs up. Not for nothing is Mr Kunstler wildly popular on the Far Right. He’s one of the few great American writers who still gives a shit about Natural Law, the Force which through the green fuse drives the flower.

      • thwack July 14, 2017 at 2:56 pm #

        Alright, lets not go crazy Janos.

        Come the Revolution he would be the 2nd person you push out of the helicopter and you know it.

        • venuspluto67 July 14, 2017 at 5:21 pm #

          I would probably be the first person. Though it would probably be a lot more cruel not to allow me to have any diabetes medication and just let that little barrel o’ monkeys take its course!

      • onehunglo July 15, 2017 at 10:36 am #

        ah, janos, you allegory to legendary dylan thomas demonstrate wisdom well beyond you years…….

        time held planet earth green and dying, though it sang in her chains like the sea.

        that ok.

        let not you heart be troubled.

        may God be with you.


    • lostinspace July 15, 2017 at 12:12 am #

      You may now retire or die.What more could you offer the world or the 90 % assholes on this site? You have nailed the state of the state as it is. I have been around a long while and know the long emergency looms. To bad I’m so late, back to the bullshit discussions.

  16. Anon1970 July 14, 2017 at 11:41 am #

    There is nothing holy about American politics these days. The Vatican has condemned American conservative Catholics, who support Trump, for their selfishness and once Republican neo-cons now support the Democrats as they try to push the US into a confrontation with Russia.

    Does any thinking liberal really want to start a war with Russia? Most of them aren’t old enough to remember the Cuban missle crisis of 1962. I was in high school then. The US was prepared to go to war over the Russian missles in Cuba. Russia agreed to withdraw its missles from Cuba and the US agreed not to invade the island and in a confidential side deal, the US also agreed to withdraw its missles from Turkey. War was averted.

    Any neo con war mongers who dream of Sebastopol, Crimea becoming a NATO miltary base should have their children join the US armed forces and be prepared to send them off to Ukraine.

    • FincaInTheMountains July 14, 2017 at 11:56 am #

      in a confidential side deal, the US also agreed to withdraw its missiles from Turkey

      Actually, somehow everybody conveniently forgets that the American missiles in Turkey with the flight time under 10 minutes to Moscow was the real reason for Kruschev activating operation “Anadyr” and secretly placing Soviet missiles in Cuba.

      No doubt that the reason for President Kennedy execution was concession to withdraw missiles from Turkey.

  17. 100th Avatar July 14, 2017 at 11:49 am #

    The Vatican: its not just for hiring and transferring inveterate pederasts under the color of religion these days.

  18. seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 11:51 am #

    I think it’s now official. The Republican Party is now Fascist. Edwin Edwards once famously said “The only way I could lose this election is if I get caught with a dead boy.” I don’t think that would even be a blip on Trump’s approval ratings with his base. The search for the vast left wing conspiracy would begin (The Clinton Boy Snatchers of Haiti). The insistence that everyone does it would begin. “It’s just a dead boy. Big deal!” meme would waft over the country. Their allegiance to their leader is akin to Adolf Hitler. The only difference is Hitler actually did something for the German people. Put 6,000,000 people to work. Had a thriving economy when the rest of the world was mired in the Great Depression, and FDR, the only man who managed to do more than Trump in his first 6 months, was only marginally successful in turning things around.

    • Beryl of Oyl July 14, 2017 at 12:44 pm #

      Actually, prosecutions of human trafficking and pedophilia have increased under the new administration.
      Laura Silsby did remove Haitian children from their homes, and did attempt to illegally bring them into the Dominican Republic, under false pretenses.
      Hillary Clinton did help her get out of jail and out of Haiti.
      But thank you for the insinuation that I would support pedophilia and murder because I support Trump.
      BTW, if the Republican Party are Fascists, it’s a good thing we elected a man they did not want and still oppose, isn’t it?

      • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 1:18 pm #

        Like Bill Maher said when Trump sued him for 5 million dollars when he produced his birth certificate that proved his father was not an orange haired urangatan :”It was a joke.” A parody on Trump’s birtherism. A joke meant to illustrate there is no line for Trump supporters that he cannot cross. Trump himself joked he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and he wouldn’t lose support. Are you charging him with attempted murder?

        • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 1:43 pm #

          You people won’t let him govern and then you blame him for not doing anything. Fuck all of you.

          • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 1:50 pm #

            We won’t let him steal. Are you not following this thing? There’s hundred dollar bills hanging wet on a clothes line from here to Moscow.

      • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 1:42 pm #

        Wrong. Fascists did want Trump and we were a force in the last election – as we will be from now on.

        Do you even know what the word means or is it just a “snarl” word for you? I don’t blame you – that’s how you were “educated”. But there’s no excuse now.

        The problem is that the Republican Party isn’t Fascist, but rather Plutocratic whores.

        • venuspluto67 July 14, 2017 at 5:24 pm #

          Yes, there is quite a difference between reactionaries (be they fundamentalist theocrats or simply retrograde plutocrats) and fascists. Though of the three of those, the retrograde plutocrats would be the least likely to systematically persecute homosexuals as a matter of public policy. (And why should they, seeing as how they only care about freaking money, money, money?)

          • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 5:37 pm #

            Yes, that’s a big issue in our Movement. Some really bright White Nationalists are Gay, but their orientation is always going to trump their loyalty to the Race Nation it seems. And of course, they want the “special” relationship between White women and Gay White men to continue. Every White girl is supposed to have a Gay best friend now, to help complete her corruption.

          • thwack July 14, 2017 at 5:58 pm #

            I thought that was my job?

            Was I demoted?


            I can corrupt a white woman waaaaay better than a faggot?

      • daveed July 14, 2017 at 8:57 pm #

        If the Republicans “did not want and still opposeTrump”, and the same goes for Democrats….who, exactly, are the Trump supporters? Who are your fellow travelers?

    • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 1:33 pm #

      Firstly, Fascism is just Nationalism – so you need to educate yourself. Second, Trump could do all that too, but first he’d have to crush the traitor press and put half the House and Senate in the Hoosegow as Traitors.

      Check out the Arch-Druid’s excellent series on Fascism. There’s a reason they don’t teach even what the word means in most Poly Sci courses: it makes too much sense.

      • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 1:49 pm #

        According to Mussolini, who I believe was a fascist, fascism is the merging of state and corporate power.

        • venuspluto67 July 14, 2017 at 5:26 pm #

          Not really. Fascist corporations were state institutions that coordinated economic activity between that very state and the private sector.

        • FincaInTheMountains July 14, 2017 at 8:25 pm #

          By Mussolini definition the basic position of the fascist doctrine is a doctrine of the State, its nature, objectives and goals. In Fascism, the State is absolute, in comparison with individuals and groups. Individuals and groups are conceivable only within the State.

          Thus, Mussolini formulated the main idea and purpose of Fascism. Even more specific, the idea was formulated in the slogan that Mussolini proclaimed in his speech in the Chamber of Deputies on May 26, 1927, “all in the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State.”

          The attitude of the National Socialists to the State was fundamentally different. For National Socialism State is just a mean to preserve Race. Moreover, National Socialism had a goal not even the maintenance of the State and but transformation of the State into Society.


        • wet dog July 15, 2017 at 6:26 pm #

          That’s exactly what fascism is: the merging of state and corporate power. Hitler, Mussolini, couldn’t have gotten anywhere without the support of major industry and the bankers. The Bolsheviks couldn’t have exterminated millions of Christians without western banker support.

          The US has been a fascist state for at least 50 years. Who writes the laws, the fat congressman looking forward to the next Eyes Wide Shut orgy? Or the corporate lobbyist? There’s your answer right there.

          Or simply look at all the Goldman Sachs boys at the head of most western governments today.

  19. bobwise32952 July 14, 2017 at 12:02 pm #

    Great article, Jim. But I disagree with one point- “the civil rights campaign…has produced off-the-charts black crime rates.” Without the civil rights reforms, black crime would probably be even further off the charts. Ditto income inequality and all the worst aspects of urban ghetttoes.
    — Bob Wise

    • Beryl of Oyl July 14, 2017 at 12:18 pm #

      I don’t know, Bob. The passage of the Civil Rights Act was a good, positive thing, but what the movement became after its passage (and after the death of MLK), I don’t see that as anything but detrimental.
      I’m not talking about right away, I’m talking about the time we started seeing people like Al Sharpton held up as civil rights leaders.
      I place it around 1980, the beginnings of the turnaround.

      • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 1:51 pm #

        MLK would have been for everything that happened if he had lived. The man was a Communist after all and wanted the worst for America.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 1:50 pm #

      Nope. The more entitlements they got the worst their behavior became. Rioting is an expression of strength, not weakness as Liberals always maintain. A classic upside down view of things. Justin Trudeau is the Master of this realm: “If you kill them, they win.”

      Their incomes will always be lower because they choose leisure and by in large, they don’t have the brains to compete with other races. You’re assuming equality again – an equality which simply doesn’t exist.

      For the social problem, read Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s report on the effect of the Great Society on the Black Family. Cliff note: it broke it. Women with kids get more money without a husband so that’s what they do. And most Black men like variety anyway. Marriage bonds in Africa were never as strong as in Europe and Asia. Anyway, his paper couldn’t be written today by a politician or mainstream writer: folks like you would destroy them as you did James Watson.

      • thwack July 14, 2017 at 5:03 pm #

        And most Black men like variety anyway.


        Most MEN like variety; but thats not the reason for low wedLOCK rates for black children.

        The real reason is because black women understand that you can’t put your husband on child support.

        Just sayin

  20. seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 12:06 pm #

    Didn’t the Jack Nicholson character in “The Witches of Eastwick” say that the Salem Witch Trials were doctor’s attempts to get rid of mid wives. His famous line after Susan Sarandon doubts him was”Men are such cock suckers.”

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  21. robert magill July 14, 2017 at 12:08 pm #

    “THE TRUTH is… anything you agree with and …faith makes it all possible”.

    Since trafficking in FAITH is the métier of every savant, prophet and charlatan, the arcane goal is to have the greatest number of people agree on something for the longest possible interval of time. The promise and plea of the religious, the powerful and the pedantic to gain approval or license is, “Trust me on this”.

    FAITH is the only Operating System we humans have. It must not be usurped by any despot, divine or dogmatist.

  22. volodya July 14, 2017 at 12:59 pm #

    An example of illogical and disorderly thinking: the Steele dossier on Trump.

    So what have we got here? Foreign nationals including Russian operatives involved with Americans in an attempt to dig up dirt on Trump and thereby influence the 2016 election. And does anyone even blink? Can anyone say “collusion”?

    Seems to me that if there should be an investigation on collusion it should be on the Steele dossier. Do you want documentary evidence? There it is.

    But it seems that Trump’s win has got some brain cells scrambled out there on the Potomac.

    • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 1:26 pm #

      Correct me if I’m wrong, that was after the election.

      • volodya July 14, 2017 at 2:02 pm #

        It was during the election campaign. The project was started in 2015 by Republicans. After Trump won primaries it was funded by Democratic client. The dossier was made public in Jan 2017.

        • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 2:10 pm #

          So how did it affect the election campaign if it was released in Jan 2017?

          • volodya July 14, 2017 at 2:22 pm #

            The point is the collusion in the attempt to affect the election outcome.

          • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 2:32 pm #

            That’s as ridiculous as Sean Hannity saying this Russian meeting was a left wing trap. Right. So the race is tightening. No don;t release it yet. So you win every debate and still your lead is shrinking. No don;t release it yet. You’ve lost the election. No don;t release yet. Now after 6 months of a Trump administration NOW RELEASE IT. Are frigging kidding me. There is no equivalency at all.

  23. Elrond Hubbard July 14, 2017 at 12:59 pm #

    Intriguing experiment reveals a fundamental conflict in human culture

    “Rank-reversal aversion” may be causing more social problems than we realize.


    It’s well known among economists that most people don’t like income disparities, especially when they’re on the lower rungs of the economic ladder. This is reflected in polls and scientific studies, but also just everyday common sense. Yet many of our societies suffer from a widening gap between the haves and have-nots. If we hate economic inequality so much, why do humans keep supporting institutions that concentrate wealth in a tiny percentage of the population? A new cross-cultural study led by economists working in China suggests one possible reason: people are not willing to redistribute wealth if they think it will upset the social hierarchy.

    Zhejiang University business school professor Zhou Xinyue and his colleagues … did tests on subjects in China and continued their tests with Indian and Caucasian subjects via Mechanical Turk. They found that responses were surprisingly uniform: 76.87% of people were willing to redistribute money if the rich person remained slightly wealthier than the poor person, thus keeping “social ranking” intact. But only 44.8% of people were willing to redistribute the money if it meant reversing the fortunes of the “rich” and “poor” people.

    Zhou and his colleagues identify this odd quirk in people’s responses as an artifact of “rank-reversal aversion,” or a fear of upsetting hierarchy. When the researchers tested children, they found that rank-reversal aversion doesn’t develop until children are 6-10 years old, which suggests that this aversion is learned culturally as the child grows up (the urge to redistribute wealth develops around the age of four).

    In addition, the Tibetan herders who participated in the study had a markedly higher level of rank-reversal aversion than other subjects. This also suggests the trait is cultural: the Tibetan group came from a culturally distinct, traditional society with far less market integration than other groups, and therefore their answers were different.

    Many humans appear to have two deep-seated beliefs that are in fundamental contradiction. We don’t like wealth inequality, but we also don’t like to overturn social rankings. Zhou and his colleagues say this could explain why it’s so hard for people to solve problems with inequality.

  24. Squeeky Fromm Girl Reporter July 14, 2017 at 1:09 pm #

    The only thing that I disagree with above, is this:

    “The Civil Rights campaign begun in the 1950s with the most earnest, hopeful intentions (and generous policies) has produced off-the-charts black crime rates, educational defeat, ruined cities, and epic rancor. ”

    Because I think the “generous policies” part of that was a scam from the beginning. LBJ was clever enough to know that the Great Society crap was nothing but a Democratic vote buying scam, and if it had been “well-intentioned”, then the Democrats would have gotten off it as soon as they realized what it was doing to black families.Which, if you look at this chart was about 1965 on.


    But the Democrats did not get off the polices, and 52 years later they still aren’t getting off the polices, and in fact, are creating new excuses (Institutionalized Racism, for egs,) to keep them from having to admit what a horrible and destructive thing they did to blacks.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 1:57 pm #

      Give the bears at Yellowstone free food and what happens? They start hanging around the parking lot instead of doing what bears should be doing. What was a gift then becomes an entitlement, one which the bears will demand and use violence to obtain. There is no real different between their actions and those of Blacks, except Blacks can talk and scream before and as they attack.

      • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 2:17 pm #

        Next you’re going to be telling us: “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for life.” Does the depth of your banality have no bottom? Is your gift for the inane pathological? Is your metaphoric incompetence congenital? A wise man once old me “Sometimes you eat the bear, and well, sometimes the bear eats you.”

        • ozone July 14, 2017 at 3:45 pm #

          Allow me to encapsulate vladdie’s pretended “views” so you’ll no longer have to read the endless piffle that makes this place an official Stormfront satellite:
          1.) Install Authoritarian Fascism as the iron-fisted overseer of All That Is, and 2.) get rid of the niggers (of every stripe you can think of or name) by any and all means necessary, and 3.) put those uppity goddamn wimmenz back in their proper place as chattel, slaves and testicle emptiers… then all will be well and just!

          Anything else? Mmmm, no, that covers it. (And yes, those views are bought and paid for, so consider the source and motives.)

          • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 4:30 pm #

            And God said let there be white. And God saw that it was good.

          • elysianfield July 14, 2017 at 4:46 pm #

            Where can we sign up….

          • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 5:27 pm #

            Do you even believe in the Nation State to begin with? Okay let’s assume he says yes. Next question: do you believe in the United States in particular and want it to continue, prosper, etc. If he says yes, then you could have a conversation with him. Can you have a conversation with someone who doesn’t share your premises or values? In this case, about how best to insure the continued existence and well being of the United States if he doesn’t give a rats ass about that?

            Seriously, it happens all the time. You’ll be talking with someone and realize that it’s all for nothing: they have totally different goals and values. You’re playing football and he’s playing baseball.

            He obviously doesn’t believe in Natural Law. Thinks chimpmunks and squirrels are going to get along together although competing for the same scarce resources. Another Lions and the Lambs guy, here. So even IF he’s loyal to this country, it doesn’t matter since his views are inimical to it. But you still could talk to him and try to get him to change his mind perhaps – if the value of the variable wasn’t Ozone that is. It’s the difference between having a square triangle (which cannot exist by definition) and elephants using the ears to fly – perhaps in some world of low gravity that would be possible. I can see it in my mind’s eye. A loyal Ozone (and remember we still haven’t determined that) is just such a flying dumbo. And I am the Red Baron.

            Dumbo, whose paying me, huh? White Nationalists are utterly opposed by all factions of the Deep State since all their plans include our complete dispossession.

          • ozone July 14, 2017 at 7:58 pm #

            Ah, not seeing any ‘benefit’ in that ‘position’ of anti-humanist degradation? Oh youse of severely limited imagination! I’ll have a lot of laughs before I die; the rest of ‘you’ will simply have a cartload of ‘what’s?’ and ‘why’s’ as you lie bleeding in the grease and dust. I wish you no luck in the streets when it comes time to “bring it”; may you get what you most fervently wish for…

          • ozone July 14, 2017 at 8:09 pm #

            …The only part I haven’t quite got a handle on is: Are the names and numbers being gathered up to find enough “white” droolers and fools to make up a distractionary force to allow the American Oligarch paymasters to pack their shit ‘n’ git under the cover of a ‘conveniently timed’ urban race war, or just a general list of pinheads to be rounded up and eliminated when it becomes ‘legal’ to do so? So many well-hidden agendas in the paid operative world, eh? Funny how that all-important trust and veneer of legitimacy seems to erode bit by bit, day by day. Soon, even the public tax-dollars to fund the further deception will be gone; so sad.

          • ozone July 14, 2017 at 8:24 pm #

            Ask the entity known as Janos Skorenzy. (An entity who takes his moniker from a turncoat Nazi assassin whose last sanctioned jobs were in the service of the Israelis. Pretty fucking kewl, no? Ps. In case you don’t get it, the name is instructive, “Detective”.)

          • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 8:40 pm #

            No, your first guess was correct: it was a Night Stalker episode.

            Now how about that manifesto, sport, or should I say spot? Start with the Nation Sate, segue from there to your view of Man’s nature. From there you can tick off the topics in light of what’s best for beings of this nature.

            What are you afraid of? The wicked (like Bob Avakian) flee where no man followeth.

          • ozone July 14, 2017 at 9:25 pm #

            Have the last word, minions, please do. (And I know you will.) After all, your scrip and bennies depend on it. I’m [slightly] interested in why ‘you’ might have a concern for those that have been told to “fuck off” (a terse dismissal) in no uncertain terms, but only slightly; there be much larger entities to fry than worker termites.

          • ozone July 14, 2017 at 9:33 pm #

            Ohhh, My Profound Apologies, Over-poster! Consider my humiliation complete and irreversible!


            Mmmm, on second thought, Close Enough For Government Work. (C’mon, can’t say the phrase hasn’t been in common usage for a tick or two. ha.) With that, I surrender the sword I do not possess to a person who does not exist. Go with God. (That’s like a sports cheer…)

          • Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 12:50 am #

            Look asshole, just briefly state your beliefs about Man, the State, and America. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. Get out of your comfort zone, zone.

          • ozone July 15, 2017 at 9:20 pm #

            I’m truly mystified why little vladdie would think that I owe him *anything* (up to and including an explication of my “world-view” and pigeon-hole ideology). We’re already paying the full freight for his miserable existence and trollery spew with our tax dollars, that’s not enough? I’d say he rather owes us all an explanation for his takeover of Kunstler’s comment section, basic incivility, constant provocation, impolite slurs and outrageous mischaracterizations. (Name, rank, serial number, shift times, commanding officer and who *they* report to, etc.)

            BTW, blog owner, your pet example of a purveyor of dangerous nonsense long ago slipped that slender golden chain of “politeness”, but I figure you hadn’t noticed (or, in the long run, really cared). Let’s all get in the shit-wallow early and get used to it, because it’s where we’re all going to end up anyway!

            e., No worries, vladdie already has you on his list, whether you wished to be signed up or not… Please let us know when you get the call, if you haven’t already. (It’s the least you can do.)

        • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 5:30 pm #

          Seawolf thinks that it’s banal to fight for your life. A degenerate who could use a semester on the Island of Dr Moreau.

          Are we not Men? If Seawolf is the measure of Manhood, then I’m proud to be Devo.

          • daveed July 14, 2017 at 9:09 pm #

            So, Janos, is health insurance part of the package?
            How much per word do you get?

          • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 11:49 pm #

            Are you Israeli? Admirable! You are the very template for National Socialism.

          • toktomi July 15, 2017 at 8:50 pm #

            Janos says, “He obviously doesn’t believe in Natural Law.” and “Seawolf thinks that it’s banal to fight for your life.”

            I would suggest that unless or until one has lived in an environment where there are people intent and active at ending one’s existence, one can have no appreciation for the meanings of these words – just struttin’ down the street knowing that there are no cross-hairs painted across one’s face.

            The civilized world has been mostly exempted from the Natural Law these recent millennia. We will all be on someone’s dinner menu soon, I’m guessing.


  25. 100th Avatar July 14, 2017 at 1:18 pm #

    “The result is an essentially religious hysteria, like the witch frenzies of Medieval Europe that were sometimes provoked by ergot poisoning — a fungus with toxic psychotropic properties that grew on the harvested rye, inducing frightful hallucinations in the villagers, who then lashed out at their perceived supernatural antagonists. Trump in our time is the ergot on the bread of our politics. And Russia is the witch.”


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  26. venuspluto67 July 14, 2017 at 1:21 pm #

    One might also compare the current social, political, and economic environment to Saint Vitus’s Dance.

  27. Walter B July 14, 2017 at 1:22 pm #

    As usual my host, you have nailed the landing for a perfect score. Your listing of systemic maladies most certainly paints an accurate picture of the current state of our decay. Our system, all systems have failed because wealth and the technologies have made it possible for humanity to overcome the dynamic laws of nature that once weeded out the weak, allowing the weak to not only survive, but to thrive and to ascend to the seats of power.

    Morally weak, mentally weak, and weak enough of character to sell out for personal gain at the cost of the many. Nothing will turn this around. It has become too top heavily corrupted. To all of you anti-doomers that cannot handle the truth and must instead survive on a constant diet of happy, happy, happy, prepare to be very, very, very hungry. A long emergency unfolds before us that will not have a happy ending.

    • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 1:47 pm #

      Divide and conquer is the mark of the Vatican, the Venetians and the Jesuits.People would rather be right than correct, because right is almost always short term and correct is almost always long term. The American South is still fighting the Civil War. It’s amazing. These people fought to the death to preserve slavery. They lost. For a hundred years they refused to acknowledge blacks as equals. It had to be forced down their throats by the craziest president this country has ever seen, LBJ. Now that is irony on a Shakesperian scale. The left/right paradigm exists because people have to feel they are right. They are wrong. One person does not have the right to tell another person how to live, not unless he’s paying my nut.

      • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 2:01 pm #

        The Yankees kept selling slaves after the War. Your moral indignation is simply grotesque. Lincoln freed the Southern Slaves because he wanted a Slave revolt to weaken them. In truth he wished them all gone, but wasn’t strong enough to make it happen. Some Black voluntarily went to Liberia – where they enslaved the natives. So much for their moral high ground – and more fool you for ever believing in it.

        • seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 2:08 pm #

          The Liberia fairy tale you have regaled here is exactly as accurate as the 20 % of uranium stockpile Hillary let the Russians have. The State Department, along with 8 other departments, approved the sale of part of a American/Canadian company to the Russians. This company had a production capacity that represented 20% of the total uranium production of America. Get your facts straight before you spew conservative fairy tales. The slaves you see on the blog are probably slaves from when Firestone used slave labor in the 1920’s. I have no documented evidence that Liberians enslaved the locals when they returned to Africa. None. Zip. Butt kiss. Nada. Zero.

  28. Petro July 14, 2017 at 1:28 pm #

    I’ve come to see these twice-a-week writings by Kunstler as a sort of stirring of a hornets’ nest. Two mornings a week he goes to the tree out back and gives the nest a solid WHACK. Out come the hornets in an angry swarm, and then, without intervening, he sits back with a lemonade and watches the show.

    Some of the swarm are hateful & paranoid, some partisan ideologues, some are sycophants of the nest-whacker, some are obsessed with perceived personal or group grievances. There is a furious buzzing and stinging among the angry insects. Then, exhausted, they wobble back to the nest and go quiet—until out comes the stick again, and the familiar whacks are applied with vigor.

    Is it productive? Are minds changed? Is it therapeutic somehow, to let loose the venom that’s been building up?

    • KesaAnna July 14, 2017 at 1:53 pm #

      That pretty much describes the internet though ,

      EXCEPT for Facebook , Instagram, and Twitter, which aren’t any kind of communication anyway , but some sort of art project.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 2:21 pm #

      Yes it builds up. I must sting someone. I must! I must! I sting the Body Eclectic.

    • Walter B July 14, 2017 at 4:53 pm #

      There is certainly a therapeutic element in our exchanges, but it is my hope that there are people out there in leadership roles who are seeing this and understanding that we know them for the sellouts that they are. And perhaps there are even others that will view our understanding and maybe even attempt to be different and positive in any way they can to affect change. It is why I got back into elected office myself, not to “win” or even to “change” anything, but to fight what is wrong in the system and at least, in the end, be able to quit ye like men.

      These “people of power” in our government have all fallen for their own PR and think themselves better, smarter, more privileged than those over whom they rule. They surround themselves with fawning lackeys and celebrity worshippers than keep the smoke flowing to where it has to go to keep them all afloat. When I travelled to the State House with my Mayor in February I was the only one out of hundreds that called them out for the do nothings that they are. The Mayor of East Rutherford even joined me in admonition and it was great even if it achieved nothing.

      This is at least one place where we can raise the cry that they who rule have sold us all out and we know them for what they are and what they are doing to us all. Yes, cathartic is at least one of the good feelings that comes from our days of words.

    • daveed July 14, 2017 at 9:18 pm #

      That sums it up perfectly.

  29. pequiste July 14, 2017 at 1:40 pm #

    Highly cathartic in my particular case with the added bonuses of miscellaneous head shaking, chuckles, forehead smacks, belly laughs flavored with unique perspectives and even a beneficial hyperlink or two.

  30. KesaAnna July 14, 2017 at 1:43 pm #

    @ Squeaky Fromm Girl Reporter.

    Best user name I have ever heard of

    Anyway , the more I look at it, the more I think there are broad parallels between 1860 and 1960 ,

    But not the parallels in the conventional narrative you hear.

    As I hear it , according to the last census before the war of U.S. aggression , only 7% of free southerners owned slaves .

    So I reckon that the 90% of Southerners were pathologically, fantastically , racist, to a cutting-off-your-nose to-spite-your-face degree,


    the 7% who supported secession had their agenda ,

    and the 90% who supported secession had another, different, agenda.

    Now for the 1960’s ;

    I suspect the 90% simply and merely wanted to be fair , reasonable , and just get along.

    But the 7% had a rather different agenda .

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    • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 2:23 pm #

      You yourself want to miscegenate Blacks out of existence – or are Whites your real target with that?

      • KesaAnna July 14, 2017 at 2:40 pm #

        The Celts — a race of crazy people.

        the English — Two-faced backstabbers. If you fact check the Declaration of Independence its reasons given are clearly horse shit .
        I figure the reason was actually personal. Because , as I said , the English are two-faced back-stabbers.

        The Teutons. — Assholes . The greatest misfortune that ever befell America was not importing Negroes, but importing those jerks.

        Russians — the white -skinned equivalent of Africans.

        These I know.
        I don’t know ” whites ” except as a concept made up in the 19th century.

        • elysianfield July 14, 2017 at 4:53 pm #

          “Russians — the white -skinned equivalent of Africans. ”

          Slow your roll…she meant “Ukranians”….

          • elysianfield July 14, 2017 at 4:55 pm #

            Ukrainians, of course.

        • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 7:07 pm #

          So Blacks are real but we aren’t? Hint: all things here below the moon are composites, not unities and thus comprised of parts. So that means they aren’t real, right? No that doesn’t follow at all. Are molecules unreal because they are comprised of atoms?

      • thwack July 14, 2017 at 5:53 pm #

        You yourself want to miscegenate Blacks out of existence


        Does it really matter HOW we get Blacks out of existence?

        Janos, what are you UNWILLING to do to get rid of all black people?

        • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 7:03 pm #

          Sure if a fly flies in my mouth, I should spray Raid inside to kill it.

          I want what Jefferson wanted: an Ocean between us, blax removed beyond the danger of all mixture.

          • thwack July 14, 2017 at 7:45 pm #


            so if you send all the blax back to Africa, and we build a shitty atomic power plant, and it blows up Chernobyl style, and all the fallout starts blowing into “whitepeopleland…”

            what are you gonna do?

            See what I mean?

            You still want to go into Africa whenever you want; but you don’t want Africans to have the same ability.

            Thats a fundamentally unbalanced equation, and thats why it will never work.

            I would support true separation, but I know the white man cannot deliver on his end of the deal; therefore, I’d rather be in the belly of the Beast.

            That way, I can at least give the Beast “indigestion” every once in a while; heart burn, diarrhea, Huntington’s Chorea if I gotz skillz…

            Anything less would be


          • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 8:32 pm #

            Blacks staying here: what do we get out of this “deal”? If you go back to Africa and accept our Rule, then we get the resources – out payback for taking care of you over there in reasonably high style. Note: this requires mandatory population control.

  31. seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 2:02 pm #

    I know who these people are. They are the Brady Bunch in the White House. “All of them had hair of gold, like their mother, the youngest one in curls.”

  32. KesaAnna July 14, 2017 at 2:14 pm #

    What i have been told — and the crappy surviving Gnostic scriptures I have read agree with that characterization ;

    Gnosticism was condemned as a heresy because they taught that a select few ( a ” select few ” never seems to include us. We are always fucked . )

    could, by an exercise of superior intellect , or superior virtue, hoist themselves up by their own bootstraps into Heaven.

    Whats wrong with that ? Many many things .

    But let’s keep it simple.

    If you can hoist yourself up by your own bootstraps into heaven , then what do you need God or Heaven for ?

    If theology doesn’t appeal to you ,

    then what do you need any authority for , be it Bishops, Kings, or a majority vote ?

    Does the Dictatorship of the Proletariat even need the Proletariat , except as temporary disposable labor ?

    For the Aryan Master Race, are Aryans really any less disposable and expendable. than Jews?

    I think the use of “Gnostic ” in Kunstler’s essay was apt , whatever his intention.

    As, coincidentally, ( ? ) I would describe the past 500 year era as the Era of Gnosticism or Social -Darwinism .

    Or, to put it in Warhammer 40k terms, modern man is a would-be Necron . lol.

  33. KesaAnna July 14, 2017 at 2:29 pm #

    ” The American South is still fighting the Civil War. ”

    You have that backwards . How gigantic is the pentagon budget again ?

    ” …. to preserve slavery. ”

    My new mantra ;

    How dependent are you on the labor and products from the genocidal police state of China ?

    If you want to volunteer for Hooverville be my guest.
    But, gee, nobody ever seems keen to do that sort of volunteering.

    If you want to invade China and liberate those 16 year old girls working 16 hour days , 6 days a week , be my guest. ( As long as I’m left out of it of course. )

    • daveed July 14, 2017 at 9:22 pm #

      Never mind Hooverville…..I’m volunteering for Whoville……all aboard!

  34. thwack July 14, 2017 at 2:31 pm #

    “When language is in the hands of Humpty Dumpty and what it means is only what he says it means, the syntax of idiocy and illiteracy do the job as well as the syntax of coherent meaning.”


    Thats why I prefer maff; its the only language where you can get proof (not just evidence) that an answer is true.

    The problem is, the true answer can still be irrational.

    Then its time to turn to sorcery, voodoo and witchcraft.

    Just sayin

  35. marie July 14, 2017 at 3:11 pm #

    A summation: progress isn’t lineal. We may find out. We forgot, we are nature. Anyone seen the internet viral article about climate change, Cessation by heat is in the not-too-distant future. Reading some of Jim in Florida’s and Janos’ comments last blog about marriage is death for men and hard dicks, one can’t help but think whatever happens to homo sapien could NOT happen to a better species.

    As far as population overshoot, “what we got here is a progress trap, baby.” Reading many of the comments, we’ve made the wrong type of progress. Heat does make us more, as if Americans could get anymore stupid. Like believing Donald Trump when he says he’s going to build a wall. “o really, without okay of congress. Really. Why we believe any of their campaign crap is beyond me.

    Meanwhile, deep thoughts from Kim Kardashian’s book Selfish, “I took a selfie at the stoplight.” That’s deep, that’s deep. Being superfluous may be better than being superficial.

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    • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 6:58 pm #

      Yes, of course it’s your divine duty to hate Men – White Men that is. You can’t wait for Muslim enrichment though, can you? I admit it’s our fault: we weren’t strict enough with you all and now you despise us and seek Masters fifty shades harsher.

      We gave you a standard of living the envy of the world, but what is that to you? We didn’t pass the shit test and took your grievances seriously. They won’t make that mistake. Of course you standard of living is going to go down, way down, but you can’t have everything.

  36. seawolf77 July 14, 2017 at 3:21 pm #

    Attorney General Sessions just settled a money laundering case with guess which Russian lawyer for a $6 million dollar fine so that it would not go to trial. It was an alleged 230 million dollar fraud. Put that in your bong Trumptards. Preverson is the name of the company I think.

  37. RobH July 14, 2017 at 3:24 pm #

    Intellectuals ‘think’ thoughts anlagous to Apple designing phones
    …lf people don’t buy into their visions they die and are forgotten

    So I think the thesis here should be how good the intellectuals were, as people bought in! Things were done because people were persuaded

    The media is very much another story… that is about evoking gut feelings and repeating over and over. Attempting to whip a frenzy. Based on corporate wealth and the views of a handful of the super rich. Not intellectuals. Bought off media types peddling a line

    Like with Putin, Trump and ‘the handshake’… a very bored looking Putin, who is just watching, and no doubt smiling a wry smile seeing all the fuss being stirred up
    People get to be US president through money and media
    The sooner they do it by picking a random telephone number the better

  38. Being Frank July 14, 2017 at 3:36 pm #

    Nearly 50 years ago I worked out I wasn’t doing any work, though enjoying a very privileged life. The fact was everything I did involved vast amounts of fossil fuel and it was that which was doing all the work. ( I performed an energy audit of my life-style; I suppose that counts as critical thinking)

    I made the assumption back then, that this Century would be one long war over the remains of what would be left of the world’s natural resources.

    As we use words to do our thinking with, may I put it to you all, that very cheap energy, permeates most peoples very sense of self (i.e. I work, and therefore I am). It is abundantly clear to me, if to no-one else, that critical thinking must involve billions of people abandoning their very identities; that is seeing everything they have, everything they have worked so hard for (and possibly fought wars for) and think they own, their hopes and dreams(and their fears), and their very world view as nothing more than the product of a tiny blip of cheap energy extraction. This is not going to happen!

    So how could a 21 year old know so much? Cos I have always been interested in that which is true and that always, for me, involves numbers. I can’t say I’ve ever been that interested in other people and the stories they like to tell about their world. I have, however, spent a bit of time in the Stone Age ( Chad-early ’70s) so that the very thing most folk fear I have the fondest memories of.

  39. GhostOfHam July 14, 2017 at 3:38 pm #

    Please demonstrate who the “thinking class” were.

    You’ve not said who they were.

    • michael July 14, 2017 at 5:04 pm #

      There are not enough thinkers to make a class.
      There is no shortage of scribblers and pseudo intellectuals.

  40. janet July 14, 2017 at 3:43 pm #

    “That’s why I prefer maff…” –thwackispink

    Aren’t proofs dependent on axioms? The patriarchy did not encourage me to study maff, but nowadays there is no longer an assumption that axioms are “true” in any sense, are they? You are jus entertaining yourself with mathematical theories which can be built on alternate sets of axioms, none of which can be “proved”

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    • thwack July 14, 2017 at 4:51 pm #

      OK Ms Foucault,

      go back to that bathhouse and entertain yourself all you want with alternate axioms of anonymous butt sex and rampant drug use…

      *none of which can be proved*

      then, when you are 73 lbs, laying in your own feces covered with sores… just remind yourself that

      “there is no longer an assumption that axioms are “true”

      • daveed July 14, 2017 at 9:29 pm #

        Classy response.

        • thwack July 14, 2017 at 11:37 pm #

          Classy response


          You had 2 caddies and you Rectum boaf?

          • thwack July 14, 2017 at 11:39 pm #


          • Janos Skorenzy July 14, 2017 at 11:52 pm #

            Thwack just called himself a faggot.

          • thwack July 15, 2017 at 12:59 am #

            Thanx for listenin faggot

            * so HARD*

    • michael July 14, 2017 at 5:15 pm #

      Truth is undefinable (google “undefinability of truth”, a basic result in mathematical logic).
      Truth in _all_ models of the axioms is equivalent to the existence of proof (consistency of the axioms assumed).
      But we are never interested in all models of the axioms (e.g. models of the natural numbers with uncountably many natural numbers where nonetheles the axiom of induction is satisfied).

      We are typically interested in a single model (e.g. the “real” natural
      numbers 0,1,2,… intuitively understood).

      Truth in a single model can be accidental (true for no reason) and random (easy read: Chaitin, Meta Math).

      Truth in a model is not really rigorously defined, the notions become circular and self referential.

      • michael July 14, 2017 at 5:48 pm #

        Clearly everyone believes the basic axioms (say of arithmetic) are true. Axioms are not chosen on a whim or for entertainment.

        But it makes no sense to prove that the axioms are true. It makes sense to try and prove that the axioms are free from contradiction,
        but it is known that no reasonable proof (for arithmetic and stronger theories) is possible: every proof must assume more than contained in the axioms to be proven free of contradiction.

        • thwack July 14, 2017 at 7:31 pm #

          Hey Michael,

          what is your opinion of the Jordan Peterson concept that something can’t be true if it kills you?

          It totally derailed the debate he had with Sam Harris because they got stuck there and battled each other over a definition of truth they both could agree on.

          I kinda get where Peterson was going with his rather Darwinian definition of truth; but most people were disappointed because the debate they expected didn’t happen.

          • michael July 15, 2017 at 8:52 pm #

            I am limiting myself to mathematical truth only.
            This may not have much to do with the physical world
            (e.g.existence in mathematics and existence in the physical world are very different concepts).

            As to what you are alluding to: we all die, so there must be something to the mechanism behind that.

  41. wholy1 July 14, 2017 at 3:49 pm #

    Another “doozi”, JHK. Two and O on my scorecard.

  42. Sean Coleman July 14, 2017 at 4:33 pm #

    The Irish writer Desmond Fennell argues that we are living in a new civilization-in-the-making and that it is the fourth such attempt to bring about Utopia since the Enlightenment. The others were the American Revolution (first American attempt), French Revolution and the Bolsehvik/Nazi Revolutions. The present one is the second American attempt and it has been very thorough. He dates it to August 1945 and the use of weapons of mass destruction (a euphemism for massacre) and its subsequent endorsement by America and the West. A big problem is that it defines itself largely by what it rejects (Christianity) and that its value system lacks hierarchy and coherence. He seems to have been originally inspired by the dogmatism and intolerance of Ireland’s media elite from the late 70s and the 80s onwards and by his observations of American life when he later went to live in Seattle.

    Richard Webster attributes the extraordinary behaviour of the thinking classes during modern witch hunts to a sublimated puritanism dating back to 17thC England which, according to the historian Christopher Hill, underwent a radical transformation that was no less than brain washing. It is quite easy to see how these religious values have carried over into modern secular society, in particular in the behaviour of the media and campaigning journalists. (The Puritan Revolution is seen by some as the first attempt at Utopia, albeit a religious one.) Philosopher John Gray has a similar view and concentrates (Black Mass: Apocalyptic Religion and the Death of Utopia) on the view of progress as a secular mutation of millinnerianism.

    I think Webster’s insights are more valuable because he studied these ‘abuse’ witch hunts in detail, writing a large study of the North Wales care home witch hunt.

    “Gripped by this kind of righteous fantasy, journalists, social workers and police officers tend to discount any evidence which seems to point to the innocence of those who are accused. Such evidence will be rejected, disbelieved or sometimes quite deliberately concealed. At the same time investigators or prosecutors who join in in this kind of purity crusade will tend to tolerate any method of investigation, however dangerous or unsound, sol long as it produces evidence of wrongdoing.”

    Webster argued that it is the serious papers who tend to get most carried away.

    While these hysterical outbursts are where this behaviour is most obviously barking mad I believe it is permeates intellectual and cultural life in the West, including AGW, immigration, dogmatic materialist scientism, the crusade against ‘pseudoscience’, militant atheism (which Gray classifies as an especially crude Christian heresy) and politics in general. Here you get varying degrees of intolerance, taboo, intimidation, censorship and, well, gross stupidity.

    Webster also argued that we live in a collective illusion or delusion, which the media play a major role in creating and maintaining. The claim that their role is to discover the truth and to ‘speak truth to power’ is part of the delusion.

    Christopher Booker in his precocious 1969 study of the Swinging Sixties in England realized that it was fundamentally a fantasy and interpreted the period 1956 to 1969 in terms of two full cycles of a fantasy cycle of his own devising I think (though he studied Jung deeply). This was an astonishing insight. Booker himself was involved in the rise of satire in the early 60s and was a founder member of Private Eye magazine, so he had an insider’s knowledge.

    So, when I read Christopher Booker’s The Real Global Warming Disaster again I notice the references dreams and delusions. Similarly in his definitive history (together with Richard North) of Britain’s membership of the EU.

    And when I re-read Ed Gray’s Diversity Illusion about mass immigration I see he compares it to a millennial cult which predicts the arrival of little green men, and when they fail to turn up at the appointed hour their membership actually increases.

    You can see it in the treatment of Dr Andrew Wakefield by the British Medical Council and that of independently minded scientist Rupert Sheldrake (The Science Delusion) by Wikipedia and the ‘Skeptical Guerrillas’.

    And the treatment of German writer and historian Goetz Ali on the publication of his study (Unser Kampf) of the 68ers in Germany, tracing their behaviour back to the nihilistic Nazi radicalism of their fathers’ generation. And what were they complaining about? Unemployment was 1% and everything was perfect. They wanted to be able to wear ‘bluejeans’ (I’d go on a march *against* that demand), grow their hair long and abolish corporal punishment in the schools.

    And the treatment of Spanish historian, and former communist terrorist, Pio Moa Rodriguez, who had the cheek to investigate and explode the long cherished leftist myths about the Spanish Civil War.

    And the treatment of Irish journalist John Waters who was hounded out of his job with the Irish Times (our version of the NYT) when he had the temerity to defend his reputation against slander by the transvestite homosexual entertainer Ms Panti before the Marriage Equality referendum last year.

    Because they live in a fantasy bubble they are not thinking clearly and will react violently against any challenge to the fantasy. Waters himself pointed this out in a recent interview. You just keep confronting them with evidence and fact and they cannot handle it. Pio Moa said the same thing: when he started out he thought his opponents were going to hammer him (machacrar) but instead he realized how utterly useless their arguments were.

    • janet July 14, 2017 at 5:56 pm #

      Since Q died, I’ll correct Sean for Q. Q doesn’t know Spanish anyway.


      • elysianfield July 15, 2017 at 12:37 am #

        “Since Q died”


      • Sean Coleman July 15, 2017 at 1:36 pm #

        My Spanish is improving because the liberal publishing industry refuses to publish Pio Moa in English. One of his anecdotes is of Solzhenitzyn’s visit to Spain where he laughed at the recently ‘liberated’ Left’s complaints that they had lived (and still lived) under a ruthless dictatorship. One of them, Juan Benet, was so outraged that he said that as long as there were people like Solzhenytsin there shouldl be gulags and they should be guarded.

        Moa described him as “el escritor tipico de ‘El Pais’, con todo el sectarismo, la simpleza e il esnobismo intelectuales caracteristicos de esa corriente.”

        I imagine El Pais is the equivalent of the NYT.

  43. trypillian July 14, 2017 at 6:34 pm #

    The rot of the university did not happen overnight. The Great White North has been infected with the American Disease from the sixties in my humble expirience. One American lecturer had four eye bags, black as coal, two under each sunken eye, really! His method of civil engineering instruction was to reference Sunset books. Frankly, this is not exactly what is needed when coming to terms with true creativity of the genius loci of sites. I’ll leave out discussion of the rape of America by the US Army Corps of Engineers for the time being. He came north for the free amphetamines of universal health care. Another lecturer was constantly tripping on acid, thought having a bowel movement was nicer than intercourse and pushed around students, literally. His fantasy designs are weak for a Toronto Island solar and wind project; they ought to have included a larger imaginative extent complete with flooding protection which inundated the islands and his house this year. His students once upon a time placed fourth in a design competition and his art can’t really even qualify as folk art. Thankfully he is dead, just like Rosencrantz and Gildenstern. I will enjoy a great fete on his grave and gladly exorcise his demonic soul. They say he had a long bout with cancer, more than likely bowel cancer. I have known other fine American lecturers, however the above examples from my expirience were a complete waste of protein.

  44. thwack July 14, 2017 at 8:27 pm #

    The theme that underlies all Foucault’s work is the relationship between power and knowledge, and how the former is used to control and define the latter.

    What authorities claim as ‘scientific knowledge’ are really just means of social control. Foucault shows how, for instance, in the eighteenth century ‘madness’ was used to categorise and stigmatise not just the mentally ill but the poor, the sick, the homeless and, indeed, anyone whose expressions of individuality were unwelcome.

    — Philip Stokes, Philosophy: 100 Essential Thinkers


  45. FincaInTheMountains July 14, 2017 at 10:16 pm #

    The American media about everything

    Top 10 Ways The Nazis Could Have Won World War II

    Here Are 5 Ways the Unthinkable Could Happen: A Nuclear War

    5 Times Russia and America Almost Nuked Each Other (And Started World War III)

    How America Could Lose a Land War in Europe to Russia (Thanks to Old Tanks) – just today


    NATO warns Russia to honour war games promises (he, he!)

    People Who Don’t Like President Trump Can’t Imagine Why Anyone Would

    Donald Trump, the Angry President, Screams at His TV and Vows He’ll Never Stop Tweeting

    In brief visit, Tillerson changes the conversation on Ukraine

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  46. FincaInTheMountains July 14, 2017 at 10:46 pm #

    Why Russia does not need to invade Baltic

    The degree of Russophobic hysteria of the leadership of the Baltic States is gradually increasing. And the reason for this is not the military preparations of Moscow, for which the Baltic States are not needed even free of charge, but the demographic catastrophe that the Baltic leadership hides from its citizens. The matter is that Latvia and Lithuania after the exit from the USSR are promptly dying out and already by the end of this century can cease to exist as the nation.

    If for the 25 years since the collapse of the USSR Latvia and Lithuania have lost about 25% of its population compared to the level that was achieved under the “bloody Soviet regime,” the trend is that in the next 25 years, the two countries will lose about 30-40% of the population that was in these countries at the time of their exit from the Union.

    It is obvious that the remaining few hundred thousand people in these countries, mostly bureaucrats, pensioners, beggars and whores, not only won’t be able to fight with Russia, but even maintain normal economic and other life activities of their states.

    It is absolutely unprofitable for Russia to invade the Baltic territory. It is only necessary to sit on the bank of the river and wait until the territory will free up by approximately 2040-2050 as a result of natural processes. Then calmly and constructively discuss the future of these territories with the political force in Europe that will be interested in this.

    • lostinspace July 15, 2017 at 12:34 am #

      I remember the fall of the ussr and thinking only good could follow, how naive or stupid was I. I will stop there where I was wrong about many things but perhaps only in the short term like peak oil.

  47. Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 12:46 am #


    What do we do about the Disney situation? How do we redeem Walt’s legacy? Who will roll away the stone?

    • JimInFlorida July 15, 2017 at 11:20 am #

      Disney died when Roy Disney died. Unfortunately, the Disney brothers didn’t provide suitable guardians for the company and its image. It didn’t take long for the company to lose its vision and, consequentially, it lost its way.

      When a tree dies, the scavengers move in. The tree can stand for many years while shedding leaves, bark, and limbs. Moss, cat briers, fungi, and vines can cover the dead tree and Leftists will declare that the tree lives, “Look at all the wonderful DIVERSITY growing upon it!”

      The LGBTQ propaganda, gynocentrism, and New-Agey Spielberg influence has grown upon the dead tree of Disney. The Tribe moves through the core of the dead tree; eating out its substance while being careful not to cause it to fall over.

      The uniquely Americanized fantasy entertainment of Disney was co-opted to provide nostalgic camouflage for the feminist propaganda siege engine that it has become. Disney is a dead tree, full of contagious diseases, that needs to be CHOPPED DOWN.

      • malthuss July 15, 2017 at 11:43 pm #

        How many Christians work there?

  48. DurangoKid July 15, 2017 at 1:40 am #

    In a nutshell, most of the “thinking” people still believe in a linear, Newtonian, universe where progress is a straight line ever upward and all problems can be predicted and solved in a timely manner. Watch this and learn.


  49. dolph9 July 15, 2017 at 6:00 am #

    Americans have lost the ability to deal with or interpret reality, largely because of the proliferation of media. By media I don’t just mean news media, I mean entertainment, photos, videos, etc.

    It means Americans live suspended in time, if you will. This explains why Americans don’t perceive the aging and deterioration of the country, or the aging of their own bodies, etc. Or if they do, they believe there’s a fix.

    Americans live in a perpetual adolescence, a perpetual youth. This can be charming but also dangerous since they are incapable of growing up and dealing with reality. Imagine the fury this creates in the rest of the world, and then you can start to imagine the hatred.

    They correctly understand that they are being ruled over by adolescents, and there’s nothing they can do about it.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 1:21 pm #

      All true. Many are incapable of any gravitas, much less the psychological experience of tragedy. And that is tragic.

  50. volodya July 15, 2017 at 9:39 am #

    Seawolf77 maybe you should do a bit of reading on this Steele Dossier. Ridiculous? Ok, have it your way. Maybe how all this went down doesn’t comport with your views of how the intelligence world ought to work. Maybe the real world isn’t as tidy as the Hollywood version.

    No matter, the FBI in Oct 2016 allegedly chose to keep paying the former MI6 officer that was compiling it. And by autumn 2016 a lot of news orgs allegedly knew about the dossier but chose to not publish what they couldn’t confirm.

    The official version of events is that luminaries like McCain and Obama became aware of the dossier after the election.

    But if I was a betting man, I would bet that the existence of the dossier was well known well before the election and that the political establishment hoped and prayed that its contents could be used to stop Trump dead in his tracks.

    And, if I was a betting man, I would bet that the real version of what happened is a great deal different than what’s out there at present.

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    • Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 1:23 pm #

      Wolfie likes the idea of prostitutes pissing on Trump so he believes it. Simple as that. He’s a simple savage happily hanging meat to let it get “high” and admiring his shrunken head collection.

  51. MrTibbs July 15, 2017 at 10:43 am #


    In the New Republic, all good people in the arena enjoy resuming the restoration of the Constitutional republic from JFK’s point of interruption, can see for miles and miles, and enjoy Liberty in building out properties and the local means of production, with the capability to sow, nurture, grow, harvest, store, cook, engineer, design, program, automate, construct, process, raise, teach, counsel, hunt, defend, provide, debate, organize, compose, perform, worship, dance, laugh, love, celebrate, and sustain.

    We are the sheepdogs.
    And we are old fashioned and sentimental.
    And we belong to the longest serving Civil Rights organization in the Republic.
    And we don’t require others for border protection or building bridges.
    And members are made by undying love, devotion, and loyalty to the Constitution.
    And we are happy to participate in the proper pursuit and offering of due process under the Constitution to the NETWORK globalist class charlatans who sold out the old republic in their lust for power and the love of money.
    And we are ready for what’s next.

    Sent from the New Republic.

  52. volodya July 15, 2017 at 10:51 am #

    Which is the chicken and which is the egg? Is the abandonment of thinking (or at least the abandonment of coherent, logical thought) the result of failure? Or is failure the result of the abandonment of rational thought?

    Kunstler delineates the failures. I would do it a bit differently. You could say that the US is becoming more like the 80% of the world outside of advanced western countries.

    You can see it in the Brazilianization of the American political class, the regional Balkanization of the American nation-state, the preposterization of American political discourse, the Cubanization of the American economy, the fraudulization of the American financial realm, the pauperization of American workers.

    So did the cretinization of the American thinking class come before all this and cause all this? Or did it come after all this and is a result of all this?

    • MrTibbs July 15, 2017 at 11:27 am #

      Root Cause Analysis and Failure Mode Effects Analysis reveal truth:

      The love of money and lust for power.

      A House of Representatives that managed to find unity in approving 8 trillion dollars in expenditures over the preceding 16 years on the conquest of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Somalia, and Yemen, yet failing to find unity on maintenance and repair of basic infrastructure and basic healthcare of its citizen members.

      Whatever shall we do?


      They Call Me Mr. Tibbs.

      • volodya July 15, 2017 at 12:18 pm #

        The love of money and lust for power….

        Yeah, there’s something to that. The love of money is at the root of the disassembly of the American nation state via what we call “globalization” but which I like to call the “offshoring” of American industries.

        The ironic part is that American globalizers require the organs of that same nation state that they are taking apart in order to survive, ie its police and military and judicial system etc. None these can live without the surpluses formerly provided by all those industries now sitting on Chinese and Mexican soil.

        As JHK sez, there’s not a lot of thinking going on…

        At the very least there’s not a lot of rational thinking going on. If these same globalizers think that the Chinese regime will happily afford them the protections formerly given by the American state, well, they will be sadly mistaken and maybe will have fatally miscalculated.

        • Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 1:29 pm #

          Love of money leading to the endless importation of immigrants for cheap labor. Cause and effect. That effect then becomes a cause in it’s own right, leading to greater and greater fracturing of the American psyche. America was big enough and strong enough to assimilate the Europeans – although it wasn’t easy. But the 3rd World was just a bridge too far. And as Enoch Powell said, such unassimilabiles are an untapped source of political power. Once politicians started to pander to them, a potent new Cause was created, one whose effects will effectively end the United States of America.

          • volodya July 15, 2017 at 1:40 pm #

            That too. Demolish the American working class, divide and rule. But I’m not sure about the political power. The polity will become so divided that the country will be ungovernable. Look overseas for examples. War and mayhem and massacre. Too many to list.

            Er… actually just look at Washington. The American nation state is faltering under the burden of trying to accommodate two cultures and two founding peoples: North and South.

            The elite think they can stay above it all and direct the hostilities from on high. Of course they way over-estimate their own abilities.

          • messianicdruid July 15, 2017 at 4:05 pm #

            America will survive the United States. It may move to [ be limited to ] Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, North and South Dakota, but it will survive.

    • sophia July 15, 2017 at 2:56 pm #

      Preposterization. I like it!

  53. messianicdruid July 15, 2017 at 11:26 am #

    seawolf77 says, “One person does not have the right to tell another person how to live, not unless he’s paying my nut.”

    What does this mean?

    • volodya July 15, 2017 at 12:09 pm #

      Hmmm, let’s see, I guess it means that Seawolf77 has a nut. What kind of nut is anybody’s guess.

      And Person A does not have the right to tell another person how to live (let’s call this other individual Person B) not unless he (presumably Person B) is paying Seawolf77’s nut.

      Does that help?

    • elysianfield July 15, 2017 at 6:52 pm #

      Druid, Volodya, et al;

      the “nut” is the minimum amount required to keep the doors open in a business….expressed daily, weekly,monthly, yearly. It is defined by fixed expense…lights, water, insurance, hookers, etc.

  54. FincaInTheMountains July 15, 2017 at 12:23 pm #

    They call it a Party of War not for nothing

    The Party of War is called so because it has already decided on a war with Russia, including the bombing of Moscow, Leningrad, Kursk, Belgorod, Yekaterinburg, Novosibirsk, etc. etc.

    And if they succeed in military (in fact, anti-Army) coup in the US, then you will be convinced of this in a few weeks. And then Russia will have only one choice – either to reconcile with these bombings as with a just punishment for bad behavior (and wait them again and again), or use nuclear weapons.

    And most likely it will be a volley launch, but this is already a question of various scenarios of nuclear war.

    • nsa July 15, 2017 at 12:41 pm #

      In a nuclear war, the jooies would suffer along with the rest of us…..so there is zero chance of a nuclear war.

  55. FincaInTheMountains July 15, 2017 at 1:14 pm #

    How Clintonoids “Sell” Russia to Americans

    “What Russians think about Trump and the U.S.” is the name of the episode in yesterday’s PBS news program, the main channel of Clintonoids, through which ideological brainwashing of the American “intelligentsia” takes place. As the life showed, this treatment works only after the year of English 101 at the university – an analog of Historical Materialism in Soviet universities.


    The thing is that the election campaign of 2016 showed that it is impossible to turn most Americans into zombies with the help of TV only, but the greatest success of the Clintons is that the American educated class will turn by means of two semesters of English 101 plus the PBS + CNN + Washington Post into ideological zombies in the full sense of the word. Here’s how it’s done:

    Begin as always with a good story – some Russian on May 9 in Gorky Street says that during the war with Hitler we were allies and should become allies again, but America does not want to step forward to meet Russia halfway.

    Then they go to Dugin, who confirms that Russia supported Trump as a conservative force, but after the missile attack on Shayrat in Syria, Trump lost that trust. After that they show all sorts of Russophobic speeches by the members of the Trump administration and explain that Trump himself is the only person who publicly expresses sympathy for Putin’s Russia. Then they talk about how Russia hacked the election of 2016 in the US = brought Trump to power, and proceeds to investigate Trump’s links with Russian hackers, Trump’s junior meeting with Veselnitskaya, who promised him dirt on Hillary, and expresses suspicion that Trump is the only one, who does not believe in Russian interference in the elections because Russia has “compromat” on him.

    After that, they return back to Dugin, who in good English explains to the Americans that all this (their support of Trump?) means America’s weakness, its vulnerability (for Russian attacks?) and show the author of the clip about Russia named Shifrin, who suddenly turns out in PBS studio and explains that all this is because Russia was not punished with enough pain and did not pay a sufficiently high price for opposing the American plans in Ukraine and Syria.

    Between RussiaGae and back to Dugin, a brief episode for the sect’s neophytes, about how Trump, in response to the accusations of “his friend Putin” in political killing, says that America is killing too = the episode is incomprehensible to anyone in Russia and almost to no one in the US except members of the sect, and of course, yours truly.

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    • FincaInTheMountains July 15, 2017 at 1:43 pm #

      Contrary to beliefs of many Americans that Dugin represents some kind of official Kremlin position, it is far from reality.

      Mr. Dugin was actually fired from his position of professor of Moscow State University for expressing some radical ideas, in particular calling for immediate sending regular Russian Army to Ukraine.

  56. Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 1:47 pm #

    For the Sea Monkey in your life or in your own mind. The last paragraph is the kicker. One can’t educate anyone against their will. That’s called programming. I can’t make Sea Monkey learn that American Blacks enslaved the Liberians, he has to be willing to learn as much. He has to fight his programming in other words. As Dale Carnegie said, A man convinced against his will is of the same opiniong still. Seamo, you have to be willing it to let it be so; to sit down before the facts like a little child and not a wild monkey.

    The social order in Liberia was dominated by a group of Americo-Liberians. Although descended from peoples of African origin, the ancestors of Americo-Liberians had been born in the United States for generations before emigrating to Africa; they held American cultural, religious and social values, shaped by their own heritage. Like many Americans and Europeans of the period, the Americo-Liberian held beliefs in the religious superiority of Protestant Christianity and the cultural power of European civilization over indigenous animism and culture.

    The Americo-Liberians created communities and social infrastructure closely based on what they knew – American society. They spoke English, and built churches and houses in styles resembling those they were familiar with in the southern United States. Although they never constituted more than five percent of the population of Liberia, they controlled key resources that allowed them to dominate the local native peoples: access to the ocean, modern technical skills, literacy and higher levels of education, and valuable relationships with many United States institutions, including the American government.[16]

    Reflecting the system of racial segregation in the United States, the Americo-Liberians created a cultural and racial caste system with themselves at the top and indigenous Liberians at the bottom.[17][18][19] They believed in a form of “racial equality” which meant that all residents of Liberia had the potential to become “civilized” through western-style education and conversion to Christianity.

    Wiki, “History of Liberia”

  57. 100th Avatar July 15, 2017 at 2:08 pm #

    One of the few, if only, intriguing concepts to have a correlation with traditional, as opposed to political or psychological, gnosticism, is the idea for the argument that the god(s) presently being worshipped are not omnipotent creatures, the monad as it were, but mere apex predators. Absurd, but an early challenge to the brainwashers nonetheless. As James Woods would say, this is sweet, but will ultimately end with you being stuffed, dismembered, into a freezer. First you surrender your mind.

    • messianicdruid July 15, 2017 at 4:15 pm #

      Doesn’t sound at all “absurd” to me since there are no “omnipotent creatures”. Resistance to tyrants is obedience to [ Creator ] God.

  58. Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 2:27 pm #

    know people in the Monongahela Valley where this town, California, Pennsylvania, is located. The area was originally settled by the Scots-Irish, way back when.

    It is a small, college town. Like others in the Monongahela Valley south of Pittsburgh, it and its people had their socio-economic troubles in the past 40 years as a result of the decline in the steel and coal industries.

    The local college heaped insult on injury several years ago by recruiting criminal blacks to play football and basketball. Friends and family of the recruits followed them to town. A sharp increase in both violent and non-violent crime ensued. This was after the state capitol appointed a black female as president of the college. The national Hip-Hop Conference is now held there annually. (I kid you not.)

    A resident of the town was recently awakened in the middle of the night to find a black man rummaging through his refrigerator. When the nig charged him, the resident dispatched him with one shot from a .38 cal. revolver.

    Now, the Roma gypsies have arrived, courtesy of the U.S. Government and one particularly greedy landlord. I am told they have been stealing everything that’s not red-hot or nailed down. Groups of them make forays to the local Wal-Mart to steal as much as they can carry.

    A brief Internet search reveals that traditional Roma criminal activities include human slavery, prostitution, and narcotics trafficking.

    Did I say the number of Mexicans in the area is rising as well? Yes, with the fracking industry. And, heroin use is a problem.

    Ozone rubs his hands together with glee – he likes immigrants! Be that as it may, this is how the cookie crumbles. Americans are sorely beset from all sides by apex predators from other dimensions, enemies above and below and watch out for the lateral pale skin neighbors too.

  59. sophia July 15, 2017 at 2:31 pm #


    What do you mean by natural law? I think there may be more than one group who use this term.

    Why shouldn’t I have gay friends?

    • Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 6:05 pm #

      The Church forbids such things. Thus it isn’t a viable identity. Anyone who identifies as such is therefore outside Natural Law (the Law of Nature and Nature’s God) and should be shunned.

      Someone who just happens to have this problem, and who doesn’t identify with it might be alright of course. Homosexuality has to go back to being a private vice, grudgingly tolerated at best.

      • bentley12 July 15, 2017 at 7:02 pm #

        There is no such thing as God or natural law. Homosexuality occurs in the animal kingdom, too. Your religion is nonsense. You are a sick, homophobic, ignorant, racist and hate-filled rat fucker. Jam your filthy bullshit ideas right up your ass. This site is tainted with the rotten ideas and idiocies of trolls such as yourself. And although JHK is not alt-right, he’s dancing close to the edge these days, and is feeding all the trolls here who take his moderate to extreme right-wing ideas and run with them. Right off the cliff!

        • beantownbill. July 15, 2017 at 11:02 pm #

          I agree with you, except I’m not sure what natural law really is, but I do strongly concur regarding Janos. JHK does seem to exhibit a certain amount of conservatism philosophy ( as do I), but I’d hesitate to call him right wing.

      • sophia July 15, 2017 at 9:18 pm #

        I think you’re teasing me. What Church? I only respect the Orthodox Church, but they have made mistakes, too. I disagree it isn’t a viable identity, as Jesus said they are born that way. (“and there are eunuchs who are eunuchs from their mother’s womb.)

        Why shun people? I know a gay guy who was my friend in high school, and he has been an incredible blessing to his family. Loaned them money, took care of the aged parents, sent them money in their declining years, etc.

        But yet, it seems there is some kind of delicate balance in which it really is better to have it as a private vice, not quite out in the open, as we have given them their inch and now all hell has broken loose. Is that the fault of the gays, though, or is it the nefarious ones behind the scenes, playing up the situation to gullible, gullible human fools?

  60. sophia July 15, 2017 at 2:42 pm #

    Janos said,

    “So Blacks are real but we aren’t? Hint: all things here below the moon are composites, not unities and thus comprised of parts. So that means they aren’t real, right? No that doesn’t follow at all. Are molecules unreal because they are comprised of atoms?”

    But have you considered that blacks also are not to be lumped into one category and that they vary? Their continent is bigger than Europe.

    As to the existential question, I think you know the answer. Material things are of course real in that they exist, but they lack permanence, even atoms…or maybe not. What do we really know about atoms?

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    • tucsonspur July 15, 2017 at 5:10 pm #

      Actually, we know a lot about atoms. For example, it’s now known that the mass of quarks contributes a measly 2% to the mass of the proton or neutron. The rest of the mass is thought to reside in the action of gluons, but how is unclear, since gluons themselves are supposed to be massless.

      And Jupiter is bigger than Earth.

      • sophia July 15, 2017 at 9:19 pm #

        In other words, we know very little about atoms. And what we do know, is subject to revision.

        • tucsonspur July 15, 2017 at 10:10 pm #

          No, we do know a lot. Not everything, but a lot. Yes, things can always be revised.

        • malthuss July 15, 2017 at 11:48 pm #

          But have you considered that blacks also are not to be lumped into one category and that they vary? Their continent is bigger than Europe.
          Africa = New China.

          they vary–but not that much, overall.

  61. sophia July 15, 2017 at 2:44 pm #


    “Blacks staying here: what do we get out of this “deal”? If you go back to Africa and accept our Rule, then we get the resources – out payback for taking care of you over there in reasonably high style. Note: this requires mandatory population control.”

    Why should we rule them and steal their resources?? How about leaving them alone?!

    • thwack July 15, 2017 at 4:28 pm #

      What color are you?

      You know the white man can’t leave anybody alone?

      Thats like asking a grand master chess champion to only play one row of the chess board?

      Even Charlton Heston couldn’t stay out of “The Forbidden Zone” and they warned him 3 times?

      What country you from?

      • sophia July 15, 2017 at 9:25 pm #

        It’s a mistake Thwack, to suppose that the last few centuries proves that whites are any worse than the others. The Mongols, the Huns, the age of empires. The old Chinese used to put people to torture for minor crimes. And in the orient, they torture animals in a way that we don’t.

        Some people here are not sure whether to believe you’re black. But you must be because it rhymes with Thwack…

        I am Caucasian and I am from this country, but I don’t belong here. My soul is from elsewhere, I’m sure of that…

        But I am a true gnostic, not in the crazy sense that Kunstler here just used it, acquainted with God and thus I have a moral rudder.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 6:01 pm #

      Leaving them alone is fine – and that means no aid. If we kept feeding the bears, the bears would spread out from Yellowstone and be jacking people for their McDonald’s happy meals in Caspar. Now of course you don’t see what this has to do with the price of tea in China much less what we are talking about. That simply means you are a woman and shouldn’t be voting.

      Take it from me or any other intelligent poster on this site, if we cut aid to Africa, hundreds of millions will die and they will return to the stone age which is their natural state. If we keep feeding them, they will spread all over the Earth, mixing with our women, turning our Cities into ghettoes, dragging our youth down to their level and ultimately our Civilization as well. So which do we choose? Needless to say as a woman you choose option b – you wouldn’t be “nice” otherwise and that trumps everything. This is why you should have no say.

      • sophia July 15, 2017 at 9:36 pm #

        Oh, stop it Janos, I know what you’re talking about.

        You know, there are lots of dumb men and smart women. What if a woman finds herself married to an idiot?

        Yes, in general there shouldn’t be tons of aid, although perhaps during exceptional disasters, we should prevent mass starvation.

        The world is in trouble because people have not caught up with the fact that if you want modern medicine, you’ve got to use birth control. And the whites have slowed down but the others haven’t.

        I agree with Orlov. None of us should be voting. As for me, let me stay home and I’ll give up the vote, which was quite a bad deal anyway.

        Now, you can’t just feed people into overpopulation and then cut the aid suddenly, but we are in a pickle and that is probably mostly due to wrong use of fossil fuels, and that comes of greed and lack of spiritual respect for life and the planet, and that was lead by —

        whites. But hey, not because we’re worse, just because we were in the wrong place at the wrong time. The others can’t wait to join us.

        Yet if we’re so damn smart, why don’t we see that an equation in which we put 7-10 calories of energy into 1 calorie of food production that it is an equation of suicide, hmm? Or what the hell good are brains anyway?

  62. pequiste July 15, 2017 at 4:20 pm #

    Seems that JHK was prescient in evoking the imagery of Hades this sweltering summer. The Wall Street Journal just today uses the same metaphor to discuss the disgust over the mass transit s(h)ituation over in the land of Commisar Bill DeBlasio and the Cuomo Dynasty.


    Only the plebes and lumpen use mass transit. Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein, and all their buds, get along just fine with a Maybach four-door limo (you know, the one with the built in window shades.)

    For the rest of the straphangers and bus takers – punishment is its own reward.

    • 100th Avatar July 15, 2017 at 5:27 pm #

      Alas, even Demeter couldn’t spring kora from Hades. America too has devoured the pomegranate seeds, and there is no going back, sure we have a brief respite, perhaps 4 years, but the new-world-hell awaits us all.

    • tucsonspur July 15, 2017 at 5:35 pm #

      Returning from guess where, gassed up in Quartzite and Gila Bend.
      Each time I was a slice thrown into the brick oven. Got out in time.

      Yeah man, it’s hot. Hottest June on record out here.

      If I had to hang from the strap, my neck just found a noose.

  63. tucsonspur July 15, 2017 at 6:00 pm #

    I was about to post something on thinking, the hideous, hidebound hierophants on the left, feeling and fucking, unsolvable problems and all of our dismal dilemmas, but the margin is too small to contain it.

    Actually, I’m off to watch the great, “Five Million Years to Earth”.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 6:08 pm #

      I’m the guy with the high forehead. I’ve had the gym bus experience in high school and asked the question, “Are they human?”.

      • tucsonspur July 15, 2017 at 9:39 pm #

        You have the deep “racial” memories implanted by the Martians in the transported Earthen primitives 5 million years ago. Your gift is well exercised.

        High forehead and low fat(?), no zoo stops along the way, you had to build up to go with Mighty Joe.

  64. KesaAnna July 15, 2017 at 6:04 pm #

    ” So Blacks are real but we aren’t? Hint: all things here below the moon are composites, not unities and thus comprised of parts. So that means they aren’t real, right? No that doesn’t follow at all. Are molecules unreal because they are comprised of atoms? ”

    You are correct about that.

    I was trying to say something along the lines of ;

    Though we are both female , have the same sort of plumbing , look a bit alike , and the feminist professional crusader is presumably pushing my agenda,
    it does NOT necessarily follow that she actually is, or that she gives a damn about me.

    In that case , what I think is actually going on is that she is trying to fill her own rice bowl, and to hell with me.

    Being female has scarce anything to do with any of it.

    You might take her posture of being my pal at face value ? But I know from experience that she is not inviting me to dinner, or sending me any Christmas cards, and she never will.

    I mentioned in passing the War of American Independence , but really only in passing.
    ” What the heck does the War of American Independence have to do with race ? ” one might rightly ask.

    So I will elaborate.

    If you pretend you are an alien from Mars — ( I didn’t have to . I was born in and lived in another country for ten years. While the rest of my family are Americans, and I was obliged to come here, I never did take to it )

    — and with no particular political ax to grind — ( sorta , kinda true in my case. That is, “my” country ceased to exist after I left , and it is pretty obvious that the current regime there has NOTHING to do with me. ” My ” country …..is simply gone. There is no side to join. )

    — and then fact check the Declaration of Independence , it becomes obvious that the reasons they give for divorce are total horse shit.

    For example, they say , ” the king has hired foreign mercenaries and sent them here to make war on his own people. ”

    Now the rebels started shooting at government troops in April of 1775. And at that time, and certainly by autumn of 1775 , they had clearly announced that they were NOT the King’s, or Britain’s , own people.

    The king did not send agents to the German States to try and recruit mercenary troops until the Autumn , and in any case no mercenary contracts were entered into or signed before December.

    Here is claimed as a CAUSE of divorce , a reaction that clearly happened after the fact.

    Almost all the reasons given are of this type . they aren’t even halfway plausible excuses.

    I suspect that most who have bothered to look at the Declaration of independence see this.

    And that is why there is so little real focus on the reasons given , and all the emphasis placed instead on ” All men are created equal … ”
    ” Life, liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness . ”

    Never mind that in that case as well, it wasn’t just that Thomas Jefferson wasn’t inviting blacks to dinner, he wasn’t inviting peasant whites to dinner either.

    Well, obviously there WERE reasons for the divorce.

    But nothing you will find in the Declaration of Independence.

    For aristocrats like Jefferson , well, why would an aristocrat back a revolution aimed at their own advantage and privilege ?

    Because it isn’t.

    Every revolution since , and including , Martin Luther , has had as its primary effect to dispense with whatever obligations or responsibilities the aristocracy had.

    To go back to Martin Luther ; i doubt your average aristocrat in his McMansion really cares much how some waitress interprets the Bible.
    But might be very interested in that he is no longer taking any orders from some priest.
    Regarding the fancies of some waitress ; who gives a shit ?
    But the aristocrat has been “unshackled” .

    But 90% of the population in the American colonies were not aristocracy .

    And race has yet to be factored into it.

    Well, by 1775 , the English were a minority in the American colonies. The Celts and the Germans outnumbered them 3 or 4 to one.
    And why should the Celts or the Germans love the English ?

    They didn’t.

    Where the English were most represented in 1775 was among the American aristocracy.

    See what a cold comfort that was for the British Empire.

    So, yes, race factored into it, but not , I think , in any way that should warm the heart of anyone who presumably loves white people.

    Further up the page Volodya referred to the Balkanization of America……

    And it occurred to me , that it seems to me, the Confederacy and its symbols were LEAST stigmatized when unity was at its greatest.

    Why banish Confederate flags and Confederate memorials to museums nobody visits NOW ?

    Progress ?

    If there is more unity and less division NOW , then why NOW when it should matter LESS ?

    I think it has something to do with the fact, instead, that for 40 years you have been offshoring American working class jobs , and gutting the working class.

    That unavoidably undermines the middle class .

    The majority middle class , and / or the promise and possibility of joining that class, was the real basis of American unity.

    So 40 years of offshoring working class jobs was an extremely unpatriotic , un- American course of action.

    that has to be glossed over somehow.

    • KesaAnna July 15, 2017 at 6:12 pm #

      Holy Hell, that was such a long article, the surprise would be if anyone DID read it.


      • sophia July 15, 2017 at 9:45 pm #

        I read it.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 6:18 pm #

      Yeah, pretty much agree with most of that though England was already destined to be destroyed by Industrialism and Capitalist racketeering, especially once Rothschild took over the economy after Waterloo. If that scam hadn’t worked, he and his brothers would have simply done it slower.

      Jefferson’s agrarian vision was best: he didn’t want the above for America. And he knew slavery was wrong, but didn’t want America to be Africa or Haiti either. They had to go “back” or forward into Central America or wherever. Anyplace but here. And he was for the natural Aristocracy, one of merit. Now would he have favored means to help that emerge? Probably not. It had to be natural. You could criticize that pov since the Elite always pas laws to favor their perpetuation.

      Anyway, their motives for rebelling were various, some good and some not. But the upshot was the death of noblesse oblige. And that’s always bad. Not sure how Jefferson would see that.

      • bentley12 July 15, 2017 at 6:44 pm #

        “Anyplace but here”. Probably about how the Indians felt when the first Europeans set foot on these shores. Your racism is nothing short of disgusting. Although I don’t expect you to give me a straight answer, because you are a typical white nationalist coward, I do wonder how you live with yourself. It must be lonely on a Saturday night, without a Klan rally to atttend where you can meet up with your friends. Hoods and gowns required. Confederate flag are optional accessories. You are sick! Skorenzy is not exactly a WASP name. You are engaged in a reaction formation it seems like. It’s not healthy.

        • elysianfield July 15, 2017 at 7:14 pm #


          Disgusting racism
          White nationalist coward
          Lonely Klansman
          You are sick

          If intelligence provided for position in social hierarchy, you would be Janos’s pet.

          Is it possible you can write a critique of one paragraph without using meaningless buzz-words and invective? At long last have you no sense of decency?

          Prove an honest argument by Janos wrong…you cannot.

          • bentley12 July 15, 2017 at 8:07 pm #

            If intelligence provided for position in social hierarchy, Donald Trump would be a third rate city councilman in Bumbfuck Idaho. If criminality and lying provided for adequate punishment, Donald Trump would be occupying a jail cell.

          • bentley12 July 15, 2017 at 8:09 pm #

            Anyone who writes the sort of racist garbage that Janos does, has no sense of decency.

          • Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 9:24 pm #

            Officer, I only threw the bag because I didn’t have a rock. And I would only throw a rock if I didn’t have a hand grenade. And I was only at McDonald’s cuz I didn’t have any bear meat at home.

          • elysianfield July 16, 2017 at 10:45 am #

            You are probably correct regarding Trump.

            Regarding “racist garbage”…Abraham Lincoln generated a lot of it. The “Great Emancipator”? Teddy Roosevelt? H. L. Mencken? Any number of Nobel Lauriat’s? Any attempt to seek honest answers for the dysfunction of the Ghetto Culture can be dismissed out of hand? Can you provide us with positive examples that can be attributed to those that embrace that culture? Can there be any argument that does not offend your lying eyes?

            “Critical Thinking”, in a nutshell, involves questioning what you have been taught…bringing in life experience, objective observation, and other disparate elements that you observe or know as true to form an opinion that withstands arguments otherwise.

            What can you say about black culture that will withstand honest discussion?

        • JimInFlorida July 15, 2017 at 7:45 pm #

          “Skorenzy” sounds like a fine Polish name.
          An even greater honor considering Poland’s defiance and refusal to accept the Muslim invasion.

          BTW, I’m Anglo; not Polish. But I respect the Poles for their defiance against the Coudenhove-Kalergi Plan and “THOSE” who are OPENLY pushing it. It’s not anti-Semitism to point out what “THEY” openly admit to.


          • Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 8:29 pm #

            For some reason, Poland’s birthrate is one of the lowest of all. Maybe too many of the young going abroad?

          • JimInFlorida July 15, 2017 at 10:42 pm #

            If the Roman Catholic Church had a legitimate Pope, he would go to Poland and do something about it.

            Go to Warsaw and make a big PR demonstration by just TAKING the contraceptives off the shelves and throw them in the nearest dumpster. Then go before the Council of Ministers and put them on notice that they will burn in hellfire if they don’t take measures to encourage White Poles to marry and reproduce.

            BUT… the Catholics haven’t had a real Pope since Pius X and it’s unlikely we’ll see any action from this powder puff a.k.a Francis.

    • elysianfield July 15, 2017 at 7:27 pm #

      “The majority middle class , and / or the promise and possibility of joining that class, was the real basis of American unity.”

      America offered nothing…but the promise of hope. There can be no glossing over the despair once it’s absence becomes widely evident. I can understand the angst that blacks would experience in their oft times unrealistic appraisal of their lot.

  65. bentley12 July 15, 2017 at 6:34 pm #

    Hillary Clinton used an unsecured internet server. Donald Trump Jr. with, in all likelihood the knowledge of (President) Trump, met with a purported Russian spy according to the latest news from the front of the “witch hunt”. Which is worse? You would have called for the jailing and impeachment of Clinton by now, given the same circumstances. I

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    • elysianfield July 16, 2017 at 10:51 am #

      So…Trump met with a spy? No law broken, bent or even suggested.

      Hillary and the unsecured server did break laws.

  66. Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 6:39 pm #

    Every thing is a complete whole and simultaneously part of greater wholes and comprised of other complete wholes which are its composite parts. Thus every thing is a “Holon”. A Holon is a conceptual or imaginary particle which constitutes reality as such. Philosophy not Science (but not opposed to Science either). Once you understand Holons, you also understand the Great Chain of Being – which is simply the chain of Hierarchical Holons going up and down Jacob’s Ladder.

    Traditional Societies use the image of a Tree with its roots in the Heavens. Thus when you see upside down trees as reflections in water, you are seeing an image of Reality.

    • bentley12 July 15, 2017 at 6:48 pm #

      And when you see your reflection in a mirror, you are seeing an ass “halon”.

      • JimInFlorida July 15, 2017 at 7:25 pm #

        Dumb broad. No wonder you hang out with janet.

        Janos is talking about something far above your comprehension. He is correct regarding “Holon.”

        Are you sure you meant, “halon?” Halon is a type of fire extinguisher.

        • bentley12 July 15, 2017 at 7:57 pm #

          No. I corrected myself below. If Janos is talking about something beyond my comprehension, that’s because it’s pure bullshit and he doesn’t comprehend it either. Neither do you.

      • bentley12 July 15, 2017 at 7:54 pm #

        Ruined it. Meant to say ass “holon”. You also will see, when you look in the mirror, the personification of racism and bigotry. But you have a rich, somewhat, fantasy life. Better check for “blacks” under your bed and keep a loaded gun under your pillow. Watch those gypsies too. Preserve that right-wing utopia in your river valley littered with shuttered steel mills. And know that it’s all the “libruls” fault.

      • Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 8:17 pm #

        This little Black Bear is angry because I won’t give him my McDonald’s happy meal. I saw him coming and rolled up my window. He is banging against the glass and smearing it with his foamy saliva.

        I take out the burger and slowly eat it in an exaggerated manner. Bear bentley12 gets even crazier. He shambles away. As I leave, I roll down the window and throw the bag at him. Sorry about the littering, Smokey. I’ll buy some anti-littering points from Al Gore to make up for it.

        • bentley12 July 15, 2017 at 9:19 pm #

          A Happy Meal, for the sanctimonious asshole that you are. Your humor is pathetic. Don’t bag on Al Gore. At least he has the common sense to know that we are ecologically doomed. But you will be rotting by then so who cares, right?

    • malthuss July 15, 2017 at 11:51 pm #

      For some reason, Poland’s birthrate is one of the lowest of all. Maybe too many of the young going abroad?
      Births or not, large families or not often reflect poverty or wealth.
      Or do they?
      Japan is rich, and dying.
      BUT JAPS ARE XENOPHOBES, good for them.

      • sophia July 16, 2017 at 3:20 pm #

        Dying how? Because they don’t have enough young to feed the old? That is a problem, but doesn’t mean they are dying. The island is too overpopulated to feed itself and you say they’re dying out?

  67. nsa July 15, 2017 at 7:40 pm #

    Finc: diminutive and feminine noun ending “-ie” is properly used to describe your crowd.

    • FincaInTheMountains July 15, 2017 at 7:58 pm #

      For ten percent of what is written here about “your crowd” or “the tribe” in my youth I used to knock out a couple of teeth at once better than an experienced dentist, without entering into further discussions of the Jewish question.

      • Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 8:19 pm #

        Your English is so poor here that I can’t even understand what you mean.

        • FincaInTheMountains July 16, 2017 at 6:53 am #

          May be I suck in English, but at least I suck in 3 languages, you just suck in one!

          • sophia July 16, 2017 at 3:23 pm #

            Does it mean you’re Jewish?

            I interpret the above to mean that in your youth you were quite the fighter, and 10% of the volume of insults you see slung here would be enough for you to knock someone’s teeth out.

      • elysianfield July 16, 2017 at 10:55 am #

        A dental “Stakhanovite”!

  68. Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 8:39 pm #

    A holon is a system (or phenomenon) that is an evolving self-organizing dissipative[citation needed] structure, composed of other holons, whose structures exist at a balance point between chaos and order. It is sometimes discussed in the context of self-organizing holarchic open systems (or, SOHO systems).[2] A holon is maintained by the throughput of matter–energy and information–entropy connected to other holons and is simultaneously a whole in itself and at the same time is nested within another holon and so is a part of something much larger than itself. Holons range in size from the smallest subatomic particles and strings, all the way up to the multiverse, comprising many universes. Individual humans, their societies and their cultures are intermediate level holons, created by the interaction of forces working upon us both top-down and bottom-up. On a non-physical level, words, ideas, sounds, emotions—everything that can be identified—is simultaneously part of something, and can be viewed as having parts of its own, similar to sign in regard of semiotics. In 2013 Australian academic JT Velikovsky proposed the holon as the structure of the meme, the unit of culture,[3] synthesizing the major theories on memes of Richard Dawkins, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, E. O. Wilson, Frederick Turner and Arthur Koestler. Defined in this way, holons are related to the concept of autopoiesis, especially as it was developed in the application of Stafford Beer to second-order cybernetics and the viable system model, but also Niklas Luhmann in his social systems theory.

    Since a holon is embedded in larger wholes, it is influenced by and influences these larger wholes. And since a holon also contains subsystems, or parts, it is similarly influenced by and influences these parts. Information flows bidirectionally between smaller and larger systems as well as rhizomatic contagion. When this bidirectionality of information flow and understanding of role is compromised, for whatever reason, the system begins to break down: wholes no longer recognize their dependence on their subsidiary parts, and parts no longer recognize the organizing authority of the wholes. Cancer may be understood as such a breakdown in the biological realm.

    A hierarchy of holons is called a holarchy. The holarchic model can be seen as an attempt to modify and modernise perceptions of natural hierarchy.

    Ken Wilber comments that the test of holon hierarchy (holarchy) is that if all instances of a given type of holon cease to exist, then all the holons they were part of must cease to exist too. Thus an atom is of a lower standing in the hierarchy than a molecule, because if you removed all molecules, atoms could still exist, whereas if you removed all atoms, molecules, in a strict sense would cease to exist. Wilber’s concept is known as the doctrine of the fundamental and the significant. A hydrogen atom is more fundamental than an ant, but an ant is more significant.

    The doctrine of the fundamental and the significant is contrasted by the radical rhizome oriented pragmatics of Deleuze and Guattari, and other continental philosophy.

    A significant feature of Koestler’s concept of holarchy is that it is open ended both in the macrocosmic as well as in the microcosmic dimensions. This aspect of his theory has several important implications. For example, if we take string theory to be legitimate, the holarchic system does not begin with strings or end with the multiverse. Those are just the present limits of the reach of the human mind in the two dimensions. Humans will cross those limits eventually, because they do not encompass the whole of reality. Karl Popper (Objective Knowledge, 1972) teaches that what the human mind knows and can ever know of truth at a given point of time and space is verisimilitude—something like truth—and that the human mind will continue to get closer to reality but never reach it. In other words, the human quest for knowledge is an unending journey with innumerable grand sights ahead but with no possibility of reaching the journey’s end. The work of modern physicists designed to discover the theory of everything (TOE) is reaching deep into the microcosm under the assumption that the macrocosm is eventually made of the microcosm. This approach falls short on two counts: the first is that the fundamental is not the same as significant and the second is that this approach does not take into account that the microcosmic dimension is open ended. It follows that the search for TOE will discover phenomena more microcosmic than strings or the more comprehensive M theory. It is also the case that many laws of nature that apply to systems relatively low in the hierarchy cease to apply at higher levels. M theory might have predictive power at the sub-atomic level but it will inform but little about reality at higher levels. The work of the particle physicists is indeed laudable but possibly they should give the theory they are looking for another name. This is not to claim that the concept of holarchy is already the theory of everything.[citation needed]

    Just google “holon” and you’ll get this wiki. This is only part of the nectar. Bees of England! Take advantage of this succulent field of flowers.

    • sophia July 15, 2017 at 10:09 pm #

      Very good, but I don’t think there is a multiverse. The universe is, by definition, one.

      And, I thought the search for a TOE was not so much about full on Truth but looking for the missing knowledge that would let us integrate Newtonian physics with quantum mechanics.

      • Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 10:40 pm #

        Good criticism! You may have a sound intellect after all – as long as you are kept away from the humanities where your soft feminine heart leads you astray.

        I’m not against soft feminine hearts symbolized by soft generous breasts flowing with the milk of human kindness, but such feelings for kith and kin (I have no idea what kith means btw). Taken outside the home or village and they lead to disaster. Everything outside those is strictly the domain of Men.

        Yes the TOE was Einstein’s obsession. But perhaps he was trying to be a philosopher although encumbered by the canons of science. In any case, here the Philosophers are using the phrase in its proper domain – even if they cribbed it from the Scientists.

        • sophia July 15, 2017 at 11:48 pm #

          What? You doubted that?

          You’ve made the assumption I’m influenced by the humanities but I evaluate everything for myself, seek truth as best I can.

          The thing is, women cannot be barred from exploring the spiritual and moral questions, nor is it a good idea to decide that they can in general be silenced when they try to put the brakes on male violence. If they don’t have the vote, they should have the veto.

          But is it even true that women have softer hearts? To be sure, they prefer men to do their violence for them. But women almost never seem to make a real stand against, for example, all the warring that the US is doing, not more than men anyway. So many women proudly or at least without shame tell me their sons are in Iraq or wherever. Women look the other way. And now all the bleeding heart liberals who support and mourn over their goddess of war – I’m experiencing cognitive dissonance.

          No, I think true human kindness and aversion to violence comes of spiritual maturity, be it male or female in its current incarnation.

          But what are we to make of the dichotomy between spiritual teachings of the golden rule, of universal love for all mankind, and the problem that not everyone is on board and will take advantage of softer hearts? To me, you seem to have a stoppage in a tribal kind of way, where ethical treatment of others is just a local thing? You accept that the world is war, a brutal place. What then should we do?

          The problem of feminism, in my opinion, and the reason it arose in the west, is that women have a deep psychic wound, an insult to their being, in Christianity. It’s not that women should go out in the world and be cashiers, nor firewomen, nor soldiers. It’s that Christianity denies the feminine has fundamental existence.

          Women did not understand the source of their discontent and so focused on male privileges (which are often responsibilities and hardships) and wanted to join the men.

          The real problem is that a trinity with three males means that the female is an adjunct and not a fundament of the universe. And yet isn’t it strange to have a creator god who gives birth to everything and is a male without a female?

          We talk here of gender confusion. Christianity has a basic gender confusion at its root. The purpose of the male is the female. This is natural law.

          We all serve life. We can do many things and have many hobbies, we humans, but all creatures as their basic duty must serve life. Those who don’t, are more or less failures. The female gives birth and the male impregnates. There’s no such thing as a male without a female, no purpose. Because the male impregnates, there must first be a female.

          The simplest organisms reproduce asexually and the cells that split are called daughter and mother cells. For more complexity, the male was invented.

          The ultimate Absolute, of course, is a unity. But the One gives birth to Two, and the Two gives birth to Three, and the Three give birth to the ten thousand things. To be enlightened is to get beyond duality, but our physical universe runs on duality. It’s what enables your heart to beat. Male and female are one of the dualities. You can’t have a one-legged duality.

          Start thinking of God as a mother, and things really change.

          Feminism infuriates me because they deep down have bought into the inferiority of the female, thus reject her role, denigrate motherhood and try to compete with males as males, a sure bet to lose.

          By the way, what’s a shit test?

          • Janos Skorenzy July 16, 2017 at 12:48 am #

            Interesting. Obviously neither the male or female comes first. You gave your supremacism away with that one. Interesting take on Feminism, absolutely valid on its own level without your supremacism. Yes, women degrade themselves by competing with men.

            I see your (equality) point metaphysically, and Shakti Hinduism certainly caters to this perspective. Wicca openly endorses Female supremacy. Taoism admires women and their yin/yang symbolism is one of equality. Buddhism occasionally takes it up as in “the Womb of the Buddhas”, etc. But I find as Buddha did, for whatever reason, irrespective of the Metaphysic, that at least now in the Kali Yuga, men are simply greatly superior. Christianity as a Kali Yuga religion, adopts this perspective. Islam as a later Kali Yuga religion, does so even more militantly – with no Feminine Divinity at all. Christianity has Mary, even though not a God or Goddess, the most holy human being who ever lived besides Christ. Protestantism jettisons her and becomes hyper-masculine like Islam.

            A more balanced perspective than Buddha’s and equally as ancient? Adore the Feminine, beware the Female. Thus having a Feminine Divinity can help a man and of course inspire a woman such as yourself. But actual women are something very different indeed. Occasionally I’ve met women who seem to embody one aspect or another of the Divine Feminine. But usually not Yoga practicioners or Wiccans: far too egotistical, angry, and/or narcissistic.

            Hazrat Inayat Khan (Sufi) had an interesting take: Women are spiritually superior – as long as they don’t think about it. Once it becomes something self conscious, they are utterly lost. One of his most advanced disciples was a woman and he left her in charge of his work in India. He gave her strict instructions: do not respond to any criticism because of being a Westerner or a Woman. He told others to try to remind her of this if she started going wrong. People started criticizing her and she blew it completely, completely lost herself in responding to it. She wouldn’t listen to anyone when they remind her either. Later, Sufi Sam recounts (he was another Inayat Khan disciple), she met Meher Baba who told her exactly the same thing. She promised him not to do it anymore. Sufi Sam was amazed: She promised a stranger what she refused to do for her own guru. But that’s fallible human nature for you.

            So yes, on the bhakti paths of devotion, women often have a big initial advantage. But higher up, not always as they don’t always push as hard, clinging on to sweetness. On other paths? No. The Dalai Lama was clear: they simply don’t work as hard and the crucial philosophy doesn’t come nearly as easy to them. And you can look that up if you don’t believe me. Ditto the misogyny of the Buddha, Gautama Siddhartha. These aren’t secrets.

            I think I’ve expressed my view without totally discounting your insights beyond the supremacy which I reject categorically, both metaphysically and experientally. I view masculine supremacy as experiencial not metaphysical. And yes, I can see how this would bother women. Maybe once it wasn’t true and maybe in the next Yuga or Aeon it will no longer be so. Long, long ago women often served the Goddess by offering their bodies to male devotees. Most did this only once. Others did it for “a living” while young. And amazingly, it’s said they often then went on to be good wives and mothers after they retired from the Temple. That’s simply beyond our ken given the way both women and men are now. But it may well have once been the case. So it is said. As it is, the very idea of pleasing a man is abhorrent to our current crop of overweight Goddess worshipers.

            Shit test: when women pretend to want something hoping men will deny them. A test in other words. A famous one: a woman told her fiancé she didn’t want children so he got a vastectomy. She then said she did and ditched him.

  69. Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 8:42 pm #

    Since a holon is embedded in larger wholes, it is influenced by and influences these larger wholes. And since a holon also contains subsystems, or parts, it is similarly influenced by and influences these parts. Information flows bidirectionally between smaller and larger systems as well as rhizomatic contagion. When this bidirectionality of information flow and understanding of role is compromised, for whatever reason, the system begins to break down: wholes no longer recognize their dependence on their subsidiary parts, and parts no longer recognize the organizing authority of the wholes. Cancer may be understood as such a breakdown in the biological realm.

    Is this (from above) not an apt philosophical model for the breakdown of America?

    • bentley12 July 15, 2017 at 9:25 pm #

      Whatever it is you’re smokin’, I want some. But you should really STFU. It’s getting real tiresome. Any person with a lick of sense would recognize your ramblings as the ravings of a madman. You sound like a real fascist, neo-Nazi jerk.

      • tucsonspur July 15, 2017 at 10:05 pm #

        I’m usually too timid or too sensible to interject myself between posters, but this gives me an opportunity to again say something I said here some years ago:

        “….Try to resist him,
        It’s really no use,
        Honky or Spade,
        You all get the juice”.

        This is from memory, but Janos should have the whole thing framed up on the wall.

      • sophia July 15, 2017 at 10:10 pm #

        At least he isn’t boring.

      • JimInFlorida July 15, 2017 at 10:21 pm #

        Janos is the chlorine in the CFN swimming pool.

        It is understandable that the bacteria are outraged when Janos burns them with the pellets of his rhetoric.

        Civilization and sanitation go together.

        • malthuss July 15, 2017 at 11:31 pm #


          • JimInFlorida July 16, 2017 at 8:53 am #

            Do not judge Krishna by what was once a common sight in American airports in the 1970’s. That is NOT KRISHNA.

            Krishna is a very serious personality, as is Jesus Christ. Read the Bhagavad Gita or, better yet, find an audio production to listen to on your iPod.

            Then find and download the excellent digest of the Mahabharata as done by Lawrence Manzo.

            I guarantee that you’ll be addicted and listen repeatedly because the content is so superior to the Bible. Your eyes will be opened and you’ll be able to fill in the massive holes and gaps in the Bible. You may even realize that Jesus’ teachings were more Vedic than Jewish.

      • Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 10:53 pm #

        From the above. Always above.

        Ken Wilber comments that the test of holon hierarchy (holarchy) is that if all instances of a given type of holon cease to exist, then all the holons they were part of must cease to exist too. Thus an atom is of a lower standing in the hierarchy than a molecule, because if you removed all molecules, atoms could still exist, whereas if you removed all atoms, molecules, in a strict sense would cease to exist. Wilber’s concept is known as the doctrine of the fundamental and the significant. A hydrogen atom is more fundamental than an ant, but an ant is more significant.

        Why doesn’t the bent one start a movement to liberate Ag atoms? Why should they be forced into all kinds of strange shapes or kept imprisoned in vaults? After all they are more fundamental than jewelry or the people who wear it. Thus they are more real, right? But what about significance? The bent eldil doesn’t recognize that concept.

        Bent, why are you so against Carbon atoms? Why dost thou persecutist them? They are what plants crave. And we need plants….

        When a Black talks about keeping it real, he means keeping it fundamental. A Classical concert is more significant than a Rap concert, but less “real”. The average Black likes real: sex, drugs, violence, etc. Real is just what people like – a psychological metric. Classy Whites prefer significance to the fundamental. That’s real to them.

        • Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 11:26 pm #

          And yes: their focus on the Significant or High can lead them to underrate the importance of the Fundamental or Low – and the people on those levels, the people who lift them up and support them.

  70. thwack July 15, 2017 at 9:08 pm #

    The 20-year-old woman Henderson posed with, who does public relations for the bar, told police she was speaking and dancing with the American and one of his friends before they took the selfie.

    The video, obtained by Greek newspaper Protothema, shows the moment the blonde dances up next to Henderson and a friend as they lean in for the photo.

    The blonde in the video told Greek Security Division investigators: ‘A Serbian who was near us came up to me and said: ‘There are so many Serbians here, why are you talking to a black guy?’.



    Ok, heres what going on that you aren’t being told:

    This “blonde” is one of those girls bars hire to walk around and ‘encourage” guys to order more food and drinks…

    they are very friendly and talkative…

    You may have seen the example in the store or mall where the pretty girl is handing out free samples of stuff in an attempt to get you to buy some.

    They can be very aggressive too; I was walking past some in a mall last year and this girl just grabbed my arm midstride and started lathering it up with this lotion she was selling and chatting the hell out of me.

    Yes she was hot, and yes I stopped because I was like; “damn baby? my girlfriend doesn’t do this for me?”

    They butter you up with compliments too.

    Needless to say, I ended up buying 2 bottles of the lotion based on her sales ability alone.

    She was so good, she countered every excuse I had as soon as I made it; it was like she knew Kung Fu or something….

    Anyway, this Serbian knuckle head got triggered over his own ignorance.

    It will be interesting to hear what he says?

    Although if he is smart he will accept a plea because if he goes to trial he will be crucified as the evil racist whitesupremacistnaziHITLERHITLERHITLER!

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    • malthuss July 15, 2017 at 11:39 pm #

      A story is of a ‘Dollar Bar’ in Cuba.
      A woman chats the men up.
      She is a hooker.
      Cuban women usually dont have money to spend at tourist bars, on drinks.

      I feel for the Black man, killed by immigrants.

  71. bibliomaniac July 15, 2017 at 10:08 pm #

    Funny how the conservatives blame the liberals, the liberals blame the Trumpsters, everybody blames the “intellectuals,” half the country blames the Russians, the men blame the feminists, the women blame the men, the blacks blame the whites, the whites blame the blacks–meanwhile the planet is burning.

    Have any of us looked in the mirror lately? The bad news is that we’re lost. The good news is that we’re making great time.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 15, 2017 at 11:22 pm #

      Everyone blames everyone – and they’re all correct as Capitalism is the War of All against All.

      Your take is perfect too as there can be no real morality without introspection and self examination – and thus no rectification of any of the problem much less a reset.

  72. beantownbill. July 15, 2017 at 11:35 pm #

    Duh… I’m a Jewish holon, which is part of the Homo sapiens holon, which is part of the Gaian holon, which is part of the Solonic holon, which is part of the galactic holon, which is part of the cosmic holon, which is part of the superspace holon. Therefore, when I die and all aspects of the me-holon cease to exist, all the holons of which I am a part cease to exist as well. So when I die, the Omniverse – all existence – ceases to exist. So all you guys better take good care of me such that I live a very long time – or else!

    • malthuss July 15, 2017 at 11:41 pm #

      Duh…a Jewish colon, in Beantown Bill.

      • beantownbill. July 15, 2017 at 11:46 pm #

        Yes, a Jewish colon which regularly shits out waste products such as yourself.

        • malthuss July 15, 2017 at 11:55 pm #


          You have no sense of humor.

          Oh, did you know where the worst welfare town is???

          “block busting”, huh? Mister Superior, huh;

          “After the turn of the millennium, claims were made that a similar but inverse practice was occurring in New York State and New Jersey on behalf of orthodox Jews,[3][4] who were pressuring non-Jews into selling based on the fear they will be outnumbered by Jews, and subsequently resold at a much higher price to Jews.”

          The town of Kiras Joel north of NYC is the result of such practices. It has the highest percentage of residents on public assistance of any municipality, beating Detroit, Baltimore and many other worthy candidates. The men just read the torah all day and the women stay home to raise large families. Funny how liberal NYS does not seem interested in the publically-funded segregated school system.

          • beantownbill. July 16, 2017 at 12:08 am #

            Whatsa matter? Don’t you have a sense of humor? I was making a joke of your joke. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the toilet.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 16, 2017 at 12:06 am #

      Ha! The death of cell is the health of the organism. The wood of the sacrifice is burned, freeing the water molecules to wander space in the winds. The Carbon remains as the low, black thing that it is. “You” are merely the perishable wood. Your spirit will roam free while you carbon abides in a Jewish cemetery.

      Eternal Life is scarier to some than annihilation. As Bono said, the Lord has some pretty strange kids.

      • beantownbill. July 16, 2017 at 12:36 am #

        That may be so, but no one is so wise as to really know where your essence goes when you die.

        I’d rather have an eternal existence ( not “life”, because one is dead, by definition), rather than oblivion. But if you’ve ever been put out by anesthesia, you know that one instant you’re awake, and the next,you’re awake again, as if no time has passed, showing that the sense of passage of time is an artifact of consciousness. In that manner, I am not afraid of oblivion because no time will pass for me. In other words, I will be unaware that I am oblivious. It is only the conscious mind that bears the burden of the fear of oblivion, and as anyone who has successfully navigated through life knows that fear can be overcome.

        • sophia July 16, 2017 at 11:19 am #

          How would one overcome the fear of oblivion? My opinion has been that those who don’t fear oblivion are not really conscious.

          • elysianfield July 16, 2017 at 11:21 am #

            Do you fear sleep?

          • beantownbill. July 16, 2017 at 3:56 pm #

            In my experience, the only way to overcome fear is to confront it directly. Having been rendered unconscious several times, I learned it’s nothing for me to fear.

  73. beantownbill. July 15, 2017 at 11:45 pm #

    Definition of racism, beantownbill edition: a state of being in which a mentally blind person erroneously and sacrilegiously believes God created inferior humans in His image.

    • malthuss July 15, 2017 at 11:55 pm #

      You will soon be in a cold hell, for many years.

      • Janos Skorenzy July 16, 2017 at 12:07 am #

        And you a hot one for blaspheming the name of Krishna, the Christ of India just as Christ is the Krishna of the West.

        • beantownbill. July 16, 2017 at 12:16 am #

          I feel bad for you, hoping someone is consigned to eternal torture. Such hate poisons your soul; it has to. You attract into your life that what you think about.

          By the way, there is no heaven or hell. They are just artifacts of wishful thinking. Scare fables used to disrupt frightened minds and to control the sheep.

          • Janos Skorenzy July 16, 2017 at 12:55 am #

            No, hell isn’t eternal in my book or his I believe. I’m not sure what he believes exactly. He’s a funny fellah. Not as bad as Ozone of course. You tend to be pretty clear which I appreciate – apart from the you know what question. An eternal hell would make God into a monster. Some of the best Sufis and Christian Fathers reject it. Do any of the great Rabbis? Don’t know.

          • sophia July 16, 2017 at 11:20 am #

            You are mostly right, but if you do consider an eternal existence,what about karma, what about “you attract what you think about”?

          • messianicdruid July 16, 2017 at 1:51 pm #

            Eternal Punishment is against the Law.


    • elysianfield July 16, 2017 at 11:20 am #

      a state of being in which a mentally blind person erroneously and sacrilegiously believes God created inferior humans in His image.


      We know that humans are never born with parity…physical or mental. This is quantitative fact.

      Inferiority can be judged upon many metrics. This is a qualitative judgment…physical, mental and behavioral. The behavioral aspect affects the physical and mental. Free choice.

      Your statement implies that there are no inferior humans, nor superior ones…you know this is not the case.

      • beantownbill. July 16, 2017 at 4:00 pm #

        I mean that in the sense of equally worthy. I gather that racists don’t believe it

  74. DrGonzo July 15, 2017 at 11:59 pm #

    Kunstler belongs on Faux News, where they live to frighten people all day long about the big scary chaotic world outside their front door filled with people wanting to do them harm. I’m surprised that any Faux viewers ever leave the house. I suspect that JHK will quit doing so soon.

    • beantownbill. July 16, 2017 at 12:18 am #

      To paraphrase Shakespeare, truth doth make cowards of us all.

      • malthuss July 16, 2017 at 12:20 pm #

        DrGonzo seems more dumb than scared.

        Dont worry, ignore the collapse.

    • JimInFlorida July 16, 2017 at 8:38 am #

      Our benevolent host, JHK, is simply experiencing the symptoms of the Red Pill, which often includes both outrage and despair.

      Going back many years, he saw all of the problems caused by our dysfunctional Happy Motoring paradigm, malevolent architecture, and he often pondered the sociopaths behind them. Eventually, JHK went down the Rabbit Hole and that is when we noticed the change of content. As he goes deeper and deeper, he discovers endless sources of all that is wrong in the U.S. It is a fractal of madness that is easily traceable to the mentality of Corporate America, Wall Street, and a certain demographic forbidden to be mentioned here.

      He is NOT WRONG for pointing out the things he sees and his sensibilities rightly tell him they are not only wrong but, will lead to disaster. Even more so, he is pointing out disasters that DIDN’T HAVE TO HAPPEN.

      • malthuss July 16, 2017 at 12:03 pm #

        I read Jims best book. JHK, like many other wise writers and ‘experts’
        didnt sense the power of the Printing Press and military might..

        So USA didnt have ‘Dow 4000’ like he predicted.
        But USA government now has 20 Trillion in debt.
        2008 came and went. When the banks freeze up or close, God help the US.

        disasters that DIDN’T HAVE TO HAPPEN / everything is cause and effect.

      • malthuss July 16, 2017 at 12:07 pm #

        Krishna is a very serious personality, [do you know this to be fact?]
        Read the Bhagavad Gita –which version?

        find an audio production to listen to on your iPod.First Id need an iPod.

        • Janos Skorenzy July 16, 2017 at 2:00 pm #

          I was shocked to hear you compare the Bhagavad Gita and the Old Testament, but why? Because I assumed you were “into” Eastern religions as I was. An innocent mistake perhaps since you talked about them a lot. But now I realize: you were mostly interested in the dark side, the cultic aspects. Thus you equate Krishna and the Bhagavad Gita with the Hare Krishna cult. What can I say? There are no words for the gravity of your mistake.

          If you are interested, read it. Version? Don’t overthink: grab a used paperback version from a store, any version except Prabhupad’s. And don’t blame him in any case for what his disciples made of his teachings.

          • JimInFlorida July 16, 2017 at 2:21 pm #

            Janos, the only version I have of the Gita is Prabhupad’s. What version do you read?

            The only reason I juxtaposed the Gita and the Bible is simply because I grew up with the Bible first and I was not happy with the holes, gaps, and its obsession with the Jews. As a young child in the 1960’s, I was offended at the flaky Jewdeo-Xtian cartoon social club of the Methodist church I grew up in. I refused to join the Youth Groups because the flakiness was jacked up even more so.

            It was only much later in life that I realized there are other books outside of the Abrahamic trilogy and I was so excited to read (and hear) the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita *AND* to have those sacred books fill in practically all of the questions I had that Bible could not answer for me. With a beginner’s Vedic knowledge under my belt, the Bible suddenly made more sense but, at that point, it was redundant and I’ve moved forward since then.

          • Janos Skorenzy July 16, 2017 at 2:37 pm #

            Jim, I have a bunch of different versions including Prabhupad’s. I said that to Malthus because he has a bee in his bonnet about him because of the Hare Krishnas. He has all this interest, but has never read the book itself! Or does he have all this interest?

            His main focus seems to be a hatred of evil – a spiritual cop so to speak. I can respect that, though it’s not a direct love of God per se. It is loving His Good Law though, and that makes Malthus a brother.

            He actually seems to have some devotion for Meher Baba if no one else.

        • JimInFlorida July 16, 2017 at 2:04 pm #

          malthuss, you’re treading on the quicksand of solipsism. One has to accept that others have made valid testimony of something or someone and that History has verified such personages as Krishna. Otherwise, how can anything be known to be “fact?”

          The most popular version of the Gita is from, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

          Any .mp3 player will do. Sometimes it works better if somebody else is narrating (extra production value helps i.e. subtle background music and sound effects) while you listen and go about your day.

  75. pequiste July 16, 2017 at 6:27 am #

    After reading the comments I can see the CFN deserves a little musical interlude:


    Apropos n’est pas?

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  76. bibliomaniac July 16, 2017 at 9:59 am #

    Gnostic liberalism? Another semantic abortion. A term being thrown
    around in the so-called “orthosphere” to denote the smugness of liberals. Many of them are smug, i”ll grant you that, but have you ever attended a fundamentalist church? Now that’s smug.

    The Gnostic Gospels of Nag Hammadi as researched and explicated by Elaine Pagels make a careful distinction between knowledge and wisdom. the Gnostics give Sophia (who may be the mother of God) the credit for wisdom– wisdom–a far cry from knowledge.

    Neither the liberals nor the conservatives have a handle on wisdom– only God has that–and she’s not talking.

  77. sophia July 16, 2017 at 11:12 am #


    Not sure why there isn’t a reply button below your post. Now, you say I am supremacist but you didn’t actually refute my argument that on a biological level, yes, the female seems to be first. Of course, she contains within herself the potential to create the male. I guess what I/we am saying is that the female is more fundamental but the male is more significant!

    You make many good and I think valid points. But here’s the thing: You want women to agree they are less significant but not that they are more fundamental. Whatever the academics are doing in their far off universities is not me. I am a lone thinker. They are strident because they are confused and hurt, and their egos are being played. I tried to look up Shakti Hinduism but my internet is spotty. And Wicca, I would have to know what their arguments are.

    Buddhism has the void of pure potential, which comes closest to being something like our God, and it is most certainly feminine – dark, chaotic and as yet unorganized, but will be constantly giving birth.

    I try to work with the Christian Trinity. Here goes. We have God the Mother which is very similar to the above. It is the utterly mysterious (at least to our human minds) basic fact of existence itself. The fundamental attribute of God is Existence. Self existence, outside cause and effect. The Son of God, the Word, is the mind or organizing force. The language of God is mathematics? Why was the world created through the Word? (Gospel of John.) Because word indicates language, organization, categorization, the periodic table, the laws of physics. The male mind of God. The Holy Spirit is simply God’s spirit, the uncreated energy that naturally flows everywhere and fills everything. It is why God can do anything, god’s magic wand as it were. To me, it is more of a male force than female, but perhaps it is truly androgynous.

    Perhaps the patriarchal takeover was a reaction to too much focus on God the Mother, when in reality from the above you can see that the Word IS a kind of father to creation. So it is silly to compete for honor when the divided gifts of the genders are wonderful and holy and to be admired.

    The patriarchal takeover was worldwide and must be part of a natural cycle like the yugas, and yet in the east or indigenous, the divine feminine was never deleted, thus salvaging women’s psyches. According to Yukteswar we are coming out of Kali Yuga at this time and that may also be a cause of feminism.

    I am not sure if actual women are so frightful, but rather that a good number of them are and men are at their mercy.
    I do wonder at the apparent superiority of males. Yes, it bothers me. I hope that it is due to the yuga, being a masculine yuga. But another possibility is that women don’t know how to forge their spiritual path because we copy men or are not free to find our own way. To be sure, women do not strive as hard as we are not wired that way. Think of the sun ceremonies of the native Americans. You won’t be finding women doing that!
    The shit test – wow, I can see that. Yeah, men are in a very difficult place right now as they are constantly harangued and publicly scolded for being masculine. But who do women long for? Antonio Banderas.
    The deal is, women have their sphere of authority and men theirs. This goes throughout the animal kingdom, at least mammals. Males lead, see farther, follow the cardinal directions, understand structure and the exterior world better than women. Hens without a rooster are less safe. When hens decide to sit on eggs they ignore the male completely, he is irrelevant. They, who forage all day long, get up for 15 minutes a day till the chicks hatch and then spend every minute caring for them for about 3 months. Then one day she runs off after the rooster and more or less does what he says. How can a man who won’t say no to a woman lead her?

    • messianicdruid July 16, 2017 at 2:10 pm #

      If you say no, and it starts an argument, it was not a request.

      • sophia July 16, 2017 at 3:42 pm #

        You mean it was a demand?

        Ah, gee, some women can learn to respect a man and some probably can’t. If you say no there should be a good reason.
        No matter how much common sense or even wisdom you dispense, some people are low lifes. Some people thrive on the entertainment of dysfunctional relationships. They are not satisfied with peace.

        Some men can never lead and some women can never follow. I don’t know that we should take their failures to heart nor can you fix the relationship with any woman.

        • messianicdruid July 17, 2017 at 2:51 pm #

          Some are impervious to reason.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 16, 2017 at 2:30 pm #

      No, women don’t create life. That is narcissism. All the higher life in this world is a result of the male and female coming together to do that. Thus the transgender movement – endorsed by the Powers that Be – is an abomination. Women’s role in the process is by far more onerous and dangerous and after birth extremely time consuming and irritating. Thus men and women are equally fundamental, but women are more significant. Now this significance can and does effect their whole personality. I’ve had nurses start baby talking me – which I don’t appreciate. But the big danger is that they don’t want to let children go to higher stages – and with boys, this is simply ruinous. Men give birth to men after all. Boys have to be gotten away from women. And certainly, women need other things to do besides being a mother. For my money, that’s when the careers should start – after they’ve done their most basic duty, with all it’s joys and challenges and ready for other things. Of course some will become Clan Mothers – have lots of kids and then repeat it by being Grandmothers. With our White population dwindling, let no one criticize this either.

      Again, women can rise to the highest mystical stages (so men are not automatically more significant). Buddha himself said enlightenment was possible for women – just much more unlikely. Projecting gender onto the gods may be unwise anyway, but it is natural since it is so fundamental to us. And certainly women can also say, “Adore the Masculine, beware the man. In any case, the Buddhist sages say the Bodhisattvas can manifest either way, so in other words, they are beyond both even though they are still persons. The sages of Hinduism have said similar things, though they respect the traditional forms of the gods as people are familiar with them. But there are playful forms – like Shiva as half feminine.

      The work of Ken Wilber is good. He distinguishes Great Mother from Great Goddess. The former is just the big Borderline Personality in the sky. Since she bleeds every month, she wants blood in return. These Civilization always practice human sacrifice. It’s the difference between the Thugee murderers of Kali and Ramakrishna, who worshiped the same Goddess in a completely different way. Great Mother wants your blood but Great Goddess wants your ego. Needless to say, since the same name is used, people are left utterly confused. And since Great Mother panders to our lusts, resentments and grievance – she is far more popular among Feminists, Wiccans, etc. Check out the debates between Therese Bilecki, a Carmelite Nun and the Wiccan Feminists. She stands strong: many of the Convents since Vatican Two have either died off or become nests of Wiccans operating under a Catholic veneer.

      Thought experiment: if millions of young Chinese women were marching into Europe, would women be out there with signs saying “Immigrants Welcome”. I don’t think so! And beyond the naked self interest (do I not have a way with words?), the ladies came out after the Cologne rape extravaganza to show full support for the Muslims – and that is just madness, ethnic masochism compounded by hatred of their own men. But if White Men let it happen, then Muslims are the stronger. And women prefer the stronger. So – was all of Feminism just a giant shit test? Where women always hoping we would stop them no matter how hard they fought?

      • sophia July 16, 2017 at 4:12 pm #


        I agree with almost everything you said, but I don’t think you quite got that what I was talking about regarding life is on a very deep biological level. I’m not saying women create life, but the archetypal female does. Really, it is the birth-giving I am talking about, although parthenogensis does also happen. Yes, of course males are essential to life higher than bacteria – but to replicate out of oneself is feminine. And it came first.

        See, there’s this triangle – male, female, child. Don’t think of humans, think sea turtle, robin red-breast, horse, insect. The male of all species has as his first and constant focus the female, because when she is ready, he should be ready and aware that she is ready. If not, no problem, another guy will.

        She does not much focus on the male. She focuses on herself, because her internal processes are a bit more consuming. When the female is ready, the males appear. (Ha, ha.)

        But when the babies appear, she gives them her all. So, the male, to perform his role in serving life must be hyperaware of the female at all times, but the female in order to perform her role in serving life is hyperaware of her offspring. That’s how it works but it is an inequality.

        Men probably love women more than women love men, as a generalization, but luckily as humans we are demigods and have a very rich life full of possibilities, where both can love each other very much.

        You see that inequality thus: To impregnate a female a male has accomplished his end. But when a female is impregnated by a male she has completed an essential step toward her end but the impregnation is not the end. Giving birth (and nurturing successfully) is. So copulation is not equal in the mind’s eye of the two participants. She’s got her eye on the future, he’s got his eye on her.
        I must be out of the loop on this Great Mother stuff. I’m a bit familiar with the Hindu habit of having their female saints and avatars take on the title of Divine Mother.

        Sad to see feminism turn out to be just as bad as the errors of the Abrahamic religions. It was once thought that if women had the vote there would be less war and that sort of thing. I know I would have endorsed that. I’m disappointed in women. They are chaotic and don’t know who they are. They need to get a grip.

        Agree also about careers. Women should probably start them at 40. I read a book about that once. One of the errors of feminisim is the idea that we rescue our self esteem by being just like men. But our biology and life trajectory needs to be different. I think older women should be priestesses, too.

        As to your final question — hmm, what an idea. I’ll think about it. But I think my post from last night stands. Some real psychic discontent is engendered by the excess patriarchy of Christian dogma. It’s bad enough to be dull, weak, and encumbered, but we are fundamental, damn it! Our half of the duality should not be erased.

        • elysianfield July 16, 2017 at 4:35 pm #

          Excellent posts….Yours and Janos both.

      • San Jose July 16, 2017 at 5:51 pm #

        I am half-way thru with Ken Wilber’s 2017 book: “The Religion of Tomorrow: A Vision for the Future of the Great Traditions.” Good reading (but being familiar with his AQAL matrix, a bit repetitive for me).

        If you are familiar with the book, let me know your thoughts.

        Jen in San Jose

  78. FincaInTheMountains July 16, 2017 at 11:13 am #

    Gnosticism War against the three Abrahamic religions

    I must say that network management methods of society consist in the fact that in the USA there are news articles for “public”, “elite” – e.g. “new cattle” and “super elite” – e.g. journalists.

    The fact is that the “old cattle” stopped believing the media and now reads conspiracy, advising to nail the “old elite”, or rather its part, and the old elite (before the Trump revolution) became a “new cattle”, that is the object of manipulating by the media, and manipulators (journalists ) have become a new elite.

    And the funny thing about the situation is that the worse the results for this new elite (part of the new cattle, e.g. the old elite goes over to Trump’s side or goes completely nuts) the more elite and powerful the manipulators become.

    And the articles in the previous post are articles-guidelines for the “super elite”, which very soon in a creatively revised form will become the mainstream not only of the American, but also of the Russian media. They will be branded with shame on the principle that there is no such thing as bad publicity.

    Therefore, lying number one in the PBS program “What the Russians think about America” is that, contrary to this program, I am among very few who explains that Russia and the United States should become allies in memory of the Second World War.

    And most of the Russian patriots believe that after the so-called “victory in the Cold War”, it is necessary to forget about the alliance with US in two world wars and simply destroy the US in the manner Nazi (not fascist!) Germany was destroyed.

    And the Russian liberals also do not speak about the alliance with US and demand that Russia confirms its loss in the Cold War. After which Russia must simply smash its head against the wall.

    But Dugin is presented as the main ideologist of Putin’s Russia in order to show that the Orthodoxy does not play a decisive role in Russia.

    American Anglicans (evangelists, methodologists, etc., etc.) are faced with a choice: either go to the communion in the church where the homosexuals just got married, or return to Orthodoxy.

    And this factor is gradually becoming a point of crystallization of sympathies for Russia, and the PBS show is trying to prove that this is an illusion and the Russians, after defending the Syrians from flying battle Tomahawks, want to use these sympathies to destroy America as a country, including those who support Trump and sympathize with Russia.

    In general, the civil war in America and the World War, in which it diffuses, more and more acquire the latent, implicit nature of the religious war of Gnosticism against the three Abrahamic religions, and most of all Gnosticism fears an open war with Orthodoxy and an open Union of these religions against it.

    But this requires a separate post, as well as various scenarios of nuclear war.

    In the meantime, I would like to say that the cleansing fire of the Second Coming, burning out the sin, and not the sinners, is in no way connected with thermonuclear temperatures, the effect of which is in very detailed form, albeit humorously, almost truthfully considered in these two articles from the previous post:

    Here Are 5 Ways the Unthinkable Could Happen: A Nuclear War

    5 Times Russia and America Almost Nuked Each Other (And Started World War III)

  79. malthuss July 16, 2017 at 12:18 pm #

    Here is an eyesore,

    GMO dogs,


    • MrTibbs July 16, 2017 at 2:09 pm #


      In the old republic, unprincipled technocrats enjoy designing and introducing a new genus, intended to lead to a new order, with the unintended consequence of new life.

      Y = career politicians x career lobbyists x globalist mainstream media x career unelected Deep State bureaucrats x Hollywood elites x unprosecuted corruption

      “God integrates empirically.”
      – Albert Einstein.

      Y = old republic NETWORK globalism = THE SWAMP.

      In the New Republic, all good people in the arena enjoy resuming the restoration of the Constitutional republic from JFK’s point of interruption, can see for miles and miles, and enjoy Liberty in building out properties and the local means of production, with the capability to sow, nurture, grow, harvest, store, cook, engineer, design, program, automate, construct, process, raise, teach, counsel, hunt, defend, provide, debate, organize, compose, perform, worship, dance, laugh, love, celebrate, and sustain.

      We are the sheepdogs.
      And we are old fashioned and sentimental.
      And we belong to the longest serving Civil Rights organization in the Republic.
      And we don’t require others for border protection or building bridges.
      And members are made by undying love, devotion, and loyalty to the Constitution.
      And we are happy to participate in the proper pursuit and offering of due process under the Constitution to the NETWORK globalist class charlatans who sold out the old republic in their lust for power and the love of money.
      And we are ready for what’s next.

      Sent from the New Republic.

    • thwack July 16, 2017 at 8:02 pm #

      Have they made any white ones?

  80. MrTibbs July 16, 2017 at 2:32 pm #


    Sent From the New Republic.


    They Call Me Mr. Tibbs.

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  81. sophia July 16, 2017 at 3:28 pm #


    Do you fear sleep?”

    If I thought I’d never wake up, you betcha. I’d pump the amphetamines till I dropped.

    • elysianfield July 16, 2017 at 5:00 pm #

      Welll….Of course, that fear is of the unknown. Most animals cannot conceptualize death, so they don’t fear it…they don’t agonize over the concept as it is foreign to them. If a human, through religion or secular intelligence, believes that only good can come of death, then death is welcomed…Allah Akbar!. If humans, through whatever machination believes that death is bad…well, then, fear is obvious.

      Beantown, a secularist, has experienced the deep unconsciousness of anesthesia…. With respect to the billions of religious believers, that unconsciousness is probably the reality. It certainly should be the easiest to conceptualize…easiest to understand…ego aside.

      But what if Bill is wrong? What if, as Jared Taylor opines, “the Ju-Ju under the sea? Well then, if you expect good or bad with your last breath…you will most certainly face disappointment, if for no other reason than the statistical improbability that your religion is the true religion….

      Religion is ego driven

      Death a manifestation of biology

      Untold Trillions of lives before us know the answer

      It probably is the most understood of fundamentals…posthumously, of course.

      Religion will not provide the answer that is guaranteed by time.


      • BackRowHeckler July 16, 2017 at 8:16 pm #

        Pretty deep, E

        To deep for CFNation.


        • elysianfield July 17, 2017 at 11:40 am #

          You mock me…and I suspect rightfully so. My areas of knowledge certainly do not include the metaphysical.

    • nsa July 16, 2017 at 5:50 pm #

      Sleep……death’s little sister.

  82. tucsonspur July 16, 2017 at 5:04 pm #

    It’s easy to understand the human need for religion, looking into the cosmic depths and into our own inner voids. In large part religions are soporifics for the soul, medications for the maladies, the maelstroms of the mind.

    The horrors inflicted upon the world by religions indicate how close they are to their own unreality. That is not to say that human spirituality is unreal, but it is to say that religion has all too often been dangerously inadequate in dealing with the yearnings of that spirituality.

    How in “God’s” name could such mumbo-jumbo, such hocus-pocus, such muddled musings, such catastrophic catechism, be anything more than a colorful cascade of careening consciousness trying to cope?

    The mind subcontracts the soul to a specious, seductive symbolism injected by the syringe of religion. People become drugged up and half mad.

  83. KesaAnna July 16, 2017 at 7:15 pm #

    ” If they don’t have the vote, they should have the veto. ”

    that sounds like a good bumper sticker for —– the 10 or 15 of us in the west ( ? ) —— who advocate Feudalism , Monarchism, and the superiority of the religious authority.

  84. FincaInTheMountains July 16, 2017 at 7:45 pm #

    Cowboy and his Inner Voice

    Cowboy is riding the steppe, and towards him advances an Indian tribe

    “Grab the guns and shoot the leader,” the inner voice tells him.
    Cowboy grabs the rifle and shoots

    “Now ride away with all your might,“ the inner voice tells him.
    Cowboy rides away and sees a lonely oak standing in the steppe

    “Climb the tree” – the inner voice tells him.

    The cowboy climbs up the oak and sees the Indians approaching at the bottom and begin to light a fire around the oak

    “Well, now you are on your own, I’m fucking off” the inner voice tells him.

  85. pequiste July 16, 2017 at 7:48 pm #


    All this religion talk has me thinking to head over to a Scientology facility for an audit. Better than the IRS kind mind you- that really is hell on Earth let me tell you.

    Or mebbe the Christian Science reading room for a tract or two. Preferable to a visit from any of those “Let me in your house and I will tell you why shit happens” folks.


    And finally there is Al Pacino’s advocacy for the Netherworld in his (probably) best movie moment:


    But not to fret; everyone will be invited to the seance over at my house.

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  86. KesaAnna July 16, 2017 at 8:01 pm #

    ” No, hell isn’t eternal in my book or his I believe. I’m not sure what he believes exactly. ”

    There is a place that is like a prison or concentration camp , which people are driven into at bayonet point.

    It is a place of punishment —- the sort of punishment , though , you see like with a loving parent trying to guide a wrong-headed or mean-spirited child they love to what is good.

    not this mockery called “punishment ” we dish out to strangers we couldn’t care less about.
    And which everyone, in their heart, and at least in their own case, rejects, despises, and in no way really respects.

    As for Hell , it has no walls, and no guards. why should it ?
    it is entirely voluntary.


    Not at all, Indeed, it does not even require subscribing to Christianity.

    Do you not see , at least in a few and rare cases, where people willingly choose the bad, knowing it is bad, wanting the bad because it is bad ?

    Have you not seen people who were miserable in paradise?

    The great irony of penology in this life, on this planet, is that the only people ever really punished in a positive way in prisons or concentration camps are GOOD people.
    At the opposite extreme, believe it or not, there are people who THRIVE in prisons and concentration camps.

  87. BackRowHeckler July 16, 2017 at 8:10 pm #

    Yup, utopianism usually ends up with gulags, extermination camps, and complete societal disintegration like what’s happening now in Venezuela.

    Here’s a little bit of information I gleaned reading about the Spanish Civil War. Stalin sent thousands of Cheka/NKVD secret police to ‘help’ the Spanish Republic in their fight against fascism. They set up dozens of concentration camps across Spain, not to hold Franco’s nationalist POWs, but to liquidate loyal leftist soldiers and citizens that did not hew to the Stalinist party line. Here’s the kicker: in these camps crematoria was set up to destroy the bodies of the prisoners that were liquidated, to cover up the murders. Why has it taken this long for this information to be revealed?

    On the homefront, Hartford police, with much fanfare and publicity, sponsored a ‘gun buyback’ event on Saturday. All the local media were on hand to cover it. And to green it up, which seems necessary these days, it was announced the guns were being melted down and turned into gardening tools. The hope is, thousands of people down there living on welfare and junk food will suddenly start growing peas and lettuce. “Swords into plowshares” is the motto here. Well, a few hours after that, right around the corner, a guy was shot in the head. He’s dead. Its like the ‘Peace’ and ‘Non-violence’ rallies they stage; at every one of them a bunch of people end getting shot, it never fails.


  88. thwack July 16, 2017 at 8:29 pm #

    Im confused?

    which one is supposed to be the nigger?


    • BackRowHeckler July 16, 2017 at 8:35 pm #

      Another fight of the century.

      Does anyone even pay attention to boxing anymore?


      • thwack July 16, 2017 at 11:17 pm #


        and here is why;

        If this entire event is NOT a set up and just a money making operation…

        it could end up being a very interesting science experiment?

        because the question is:

        Can McGregor come up with a “formula” to beat Mayweather,



        execute it?

        Thats all this fight really is.

        Mayweather is the undisputed defensive genius; but, but,

        thats when fighting other boxers.

        There is a chance McGregor could “come out the bag” with some unorthodox, non linear, MMA “gumbo” that Mayweather ain’t prepared for?

        Specifically, Connor may not have/use the timing that Floyd is used to BOXERS using?

        In addition, McGregor can take 2, or even 3 to get 1 in; while Mayweather can’t afford a single connecting punch from McGregor cause he hits too fucking hard.

        This fight is going to come down to McGregor choosing the right strategy and executing it. I already know Floyd is going to try to frustrate him with movement (running) and try to wait for Connor to get tired and sloppy…

        If it goes more than 4 rounds, Mayweather should be safe.

        But if McGregor is able to hurt Floyd early?

        and he smells blood in the water?

        Floyd may be in the fight of his life?

        I heard McGregor is guaranteed $70 million no matter what happens?

        That may seem like a lot of money; but its not as much as seeing Mayweather X eyed and flat on his back?

        seein orange stars, yellow moons, green clovers…?

        Finally, Mayweather is 40, and although he ain’t been hit much; sometimes thats not a good thing.

        Just sayin

        • BackRowHeckler July 17, 2017 at 12:07 am #

          You seem pretty knowledgeable about the boxing game, thwack.

          Isn’t 40 kinda old to still be in the ring. Of course there’s the money. When Mayweather won his last fight I saw a photo of him in front of his mansion, surrounded by a few dozen expensive luxury and sports cars. The bet I’ll make is he’ll be bankrupt by age 50.


  89. KesaAnna July 16, 2017 at 8:35 pm #

    ” The real problem is that a trinity with three males means that the female is an adjunct and not a fundament of the universe. And yet isn’t it strange to have a creator god who gives birth to everything and is a male without a female?

    We talk here of gender confusion. Christianity has a basic gender confusion at its root. The purpose of the male is the female. This is natural law. ”

    No, it seems to me that the confusion here is wedding ” He ” and ” she” strictly and solely and rigidly to the context of biological gender.

    As i understand it, most languages , English being an ODD exception, have masculine, feminine, and neuter tenses for all sorts of things , things which are not , and have nothing to do with , vaginas or penises.

    Wedding ” He ” and ” she” strictly and solely and rigidly to the context of biological gender ,

    the Catholic Church HAS NOT DONE in 2,000 years.

    Except, yes, you cannot write essays longer than your arm to 5 year olds and expect to be understood.
    So, yes, things are simplified in such cases.

    As for others , we cannot force them to enquirer further , that would require mass incarceration.

    Though, I grant you, secular types apparently hope to do just that eventually.

    I won’t bother to explain here , except to point out one thing ;

    Catholic dogma holds that in relation to God ALL human souls are female.

    Well, obviously NOT ALL humans have vagina’s , and unless you are a Dan Brown type, and think the Catholic Church has been secretly on the Transgender bandwagon for 2,000 years ,

    obviously a strict biological gender definition of ” female ” is not what is meant.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 16, 2017 at 9:26 pm #

      Yes, bridal mysticism came to dominate at the higher levels of the Church. Once it worked its way down to the level of pews, it just drove men away. It doesn’t appeal to ordinary men at all. And it doesn’t appeal to many types of women now either – as they want to worship something like themselves – a Goddess!

      Symbolism can be destructive, especially outside the level where it where it was intended. The Muslims believe basically the same: but leave the overt gender stuff out. How? Rumi said, Attract the Lord with what He has not – your very emptiness. Yes, Allah is still the Primal Masculine, but the soul isn’t called feminine per se. It’s just small and lacking compared to the Great and the Full. But at this level, Allah allows Man to be his regent or Caliph and exercise mastery over the physical world and women. They appreciate Christianity’s soul searching and humility, but feel it is unbalanced in itself. I tend to agree: we need a bit of the old Christian Warrior ethic and Old Testament joy in the physical..

      • KesaAnna July 16, 2017 at 10:28 pm #

        ” Once it worked its way down to the level of pews, it just drove men away. It doesn’t appeal to ordinary men at all. ‘

        in the 1950’s – 60’s in America the pews began to empty.

        i don’t know the figures for Europe.

        That is, even when real he-men like Stalin and Hitler were riding high, and you could get shot for sitting in the pews , they were packed. For 2,000 years.

        Now barely 50 years, this period when the pews are emptying , you are seeing — is it fair to say ( ? ) —- an epidemic of voluntary celibacy , not only among women, but more tellingly among men .

        Now correlation is not necessarily causation.

        But I suspect my 2,000 years is less a potential problem there than your 50 years.

    • sophia July 16, 2017 at 9:43 pm #


      So you are Catholic? And a monarchist? And you would like to live under a religious authority? Presumably the papacy?

      Which do you prefer, Inquisition or stonings?

      The rest of your post was quite unclear.

      That Catholic dogma you mention, I never heard, but I have heard of it among Muslims, that all souls are female before God.

      Well, that’s probably more patriarchal garbage. Submission and all that.

      But anyway you skirt around my basic point – there’s a trinity of 3 persons, and all of them are male and all are referred to as he. Sure, if you nail most theologians down (not all, Tertullian thought God had a body with hands and feet, and therefore surely a penis and I don’t mean Jesus) they will admit the Godhead is genderless. Sort of.

      Maybe you don’t really get my point. The universe runs on duality. There are several main, important dualities. Male and female are one of those. Females give birth, they generate life.

      But Christianity has a male without any feminine component giving birth to all life. What can his maleness even mean?

      If the universe runs on yin and yang, and it does, then the Godhead should not be only yang. It really is that simple. What I’m saying is that it is an impossibility for the Godhead to be only yang — UNLESS females do not have any real fundamental existence as such.

      Is that what you think?

      • KesaAnna July 16, 2017 at 9:50 pm #

        ” Which do you prefer, Inquisition… ”

        I’ll stop right there.

        Do you mean the Inquisitions run by the Church, or the ones orchestrated by secular states which blatantly ignored anything Rome had to say ?

        • KesaAnna July 16, 2017 at 11:15 pm #

          ” The rest of your post was quite unclear. ”

          Maybe Janos is my pal after all, even though I have several times berated him in very harsh terms.

          Because this is the second time somebody made that silly, sophomoric , adolescent claim ,

          and Janos screwed the pooch for that person by , in his response to the same post, making it perfectly clear that he understood what I wrote perfectly well.

  90. KesaAnna July 16, 2017 at 10:57 pm #

    As for religious atrocities …….

    Lets pick , for example, a limited one — only 19 people were killed in this case.

    But we don’t know how many hundreds were physically , emotionally, and financially ruined who never even went to trial. —

    And an American one.

    The Salem Village Witch trials of 1692.

    The Colony of Massachusetts Bay WAS a theocracy ……….up until a year before the events in question.

    In 1692 it was a secular, Royal Colony .

    The court of Oyer and Terminer which sat in Salem village was not a n ecclesiastical Congregational Church Court.

    It was a secular English court of law.

    People were arrested by a secular power.

    People were incarcerated by a secular power .

    People were stripped of their status and property by a secular power.

    The trials were conducted ( or not conducted. As I said, an indeterminate number of people never went to trial , but were ruined regardless ) under secular law.

    People were condemned , and some executed, according to secular law.

    Now I don’t even like Protestantism .

    But it is not the burden of Protestants to explain or defend the ACTIONS and FINDINGS of SECULAR LAW.

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  91. KesaAnna July 17, 2017 at 12:25 am #

    ” Well, that’s probably more patriarchal garbage. Submission and all that. ”

    there will certainly be submission in any case, in any context , in any environment, etc.

    What is certainly garbage is any inference to the contrary.

  92. KesaAnna July 17, 2017 at 12:46 am #

    ” But anyway you skirt around my basic point – there’s a trinity of 3 persons, and all of them are male and all are referred to as he. ”

    Noo, I addressed your assertion directly and squarely.

    ” there’s a trinity of 3 persons, and all of them are male and all are referred to as he. ”

    If you believe God is outside of, above, beyond, not a part of, the universe, like a pebble or a chair is part of the universe ,

    And that God is initiator , actor , the one who proposes , that which is outside and which enters into,

    then ” He ” is merely and simply in language the clearest and easiest way to explain that to ordinary folks.

    No cock and balls actually required.

    Now, people who are not ordinary, or who claim they are not ordinary, can perhaps claim that they can describe such concepts in terms of , say , ” It” , or Amoeba’s.

    I’m not gonna hold my breathe on that. They are welcome to try.

  93. KesaAnna July 17, 2017 at 12:57 am #

    ” The universe runs on duality. There are several main, important dualities. Male and female are one of those. Females give birth, they generate life.”

    Translation ; I’m going to explain the concept of time, by explaining how a mechanical clock works .

    the universe, as I referred to in passing, is full of many things , like chairs and pebbles.

    I do not think God is a thing in the universe, like a chair or a pebble.

    I don’t know shit about India.

    I am, though, rather familiar with the paganism of ancient Egypt and Greece , and the paganism of Kami No Michi ( Shinto ) still extant in Japan.

    And though there was much of great merit in them, their cosmology is in fact crude and limited.

    And, so far, what you have described sounds like it, except crude and limited in fancier words.

  94. KesaAnna July 17, 2017 at 1:11 am #

    ” Maybe you don’t really get my point. ”

    Maybe not.

    Because ;

    ” ( they will admit ) the Godhead is genderless. ”

    You agree with this ?

    Or You do not agree with this ?

    If you do agree with this —

    ” But Christianity has a male without any feminine component giving birth to all life. What can his maleness even mean? ”

    What do dicks, pussies, and fucking even have to do with your own conception of the Godhead ?

    ’cause i’m getting the impression these things are much more relevant to your pagan conception than to my Catholic conception.

  95. KesaAnna July 17, 2017 at 1:56 am #

    ” And a monarchist? ”

    Yes, and the funny part is I’m not the one claiming that some peoples shit smells sweeter than the ordinary kind.

    With fascists, Bolsheviks, republicans and Jacobins, that’s habitual practice though.

    Ideally, aristocrat or peasant , religious or secular, all roles are subordinate roles.

    I claim that the world is divided up into aristocrats and peasants , no less than it was 500 years ago.

    I do not think that is an extraordinary claim , rather, that to claim otherwise is extraordinary.

    Of course, these things are matters of degree.

    Well, I have my doubts that, for example, George Orwell’s “1984 ” , could even be conceived of by the lowest slave , or the most eager tyrant , 500 years ago.

    As plausible , workable scenario ? I doubt that even more .

    That decided limitation is worse than the current limitless possibility ?

    I dare say I don’t really hear any genuine , sincere, proposals to limit given out by fascists, bolsheviks, republicans or jacobins .

    heck, near as i can tell, they are even scared to death of mere words like ” aristocrat” and ” peasant ” as such words are by their nature simple, and direct, limited , harder to tinker with.

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  96. KesaAnna July 17, 2017 at 3:18 am #

    ” The horrors inflicted upon the world by religions… ”

    While you are at it, do tally up the number of horrors inflicted by a mere desire to have more steaks in the icebox.

    Which cannot have the slightest significance even to the lucky carnivore when, presumably, we all become dust .

    ” Religion is ego driven ”

    And that doesn’t bother me one bit.

    Sharks —- at least as near as I can tell — are not at all ego-driven.

    ” good ” , “bad” , “right” , “wrong ” , “positive” , “negative ” mean absolutely nothing to a shark.

    GDP , the Fraternal Order of Police , and Thomas Jefferson was a swell guy, mean absolutely nothing to a shark.

    A higher power, and an afterlife, may be wishful thinking and pumping sunshine under ones own skirt.

    But they also, unavoidably, constitute coherence.

  97. FincaInTheMountains July 17, 2017 at 5:07 am #

    The main point of Trump’s visit to France

    It seems that the nuclear disarmament of the Fourth Reich has just become more important than the nuclear disarmament of North Korea

  98. dannyboy July 17, 2017 at 11:19 am #

    “The world is clearly not becoming a better place, but rather reeling into disorder and ecological crisis” – JHK

    still basing your prognosis on Internet Info?

    • elysianfield July 17, 2017 at 11:50 am #

      The world may be more resilient than it appears…we thought you were dead….

      • dannyboy July 17, 2017 at 5:10 pm #

        I expect consistently incorrect prognoses from the Commentariat.
        I am well.

  99. Beto_The_Elder July 18, 2017 at 9:59 am #

    This is easy. Greed and access to the perceived elite circles
    The basest of the base desires
    Grand Ideas are only grand if the garner wealth for the insiders
    Cabrini Green is a grand example


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