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Zeitgeist Failure

     In an age of gross zeitgeist dysfunction — when untruth, delusion, and deception rule – politics is mere advertising, which is to say surface shimmer playing on the public’s wish-fulfillment fantasies. The trouble at this moment in history is that the American public’s wishful fantasies are inconsistent with the circumstances that reality offers to us and the choices for action that they present.
     President Obama’s historical role will be seen as a wish-fulfillment totem for late 20th century progressive liberalism – the first black president. The Democratic Party apotheosized the genial young lawyer with his appealing family in order to demonstrate the triumph of social justice, which was their great struggle of the era. Evidence of that is the striking divergence from the get-go between Mr. Obama’s Hope and Change advertising and his sedulous defense of pervasive racketeering at the highest levels of polity once in office. Otherwise, you must decide whether he was a tool of the giant banks, or a dupe-made-hostage to them, or simply too clueless to understand what was required in 2009 – namely the break-up and reorganization of the banks plus hearty prosecution of their executives for massive swindling (along with reinstatement of the Glass-Steagall Act). I voted for him in 2008, by the way, since the wish-fulfillment motif moved me, and also because of the horrifying McCain-Palin opposition. 
     In office, then, Mr. Obama quickly proved to be a different breed of porpoise than the voters bargained for. He let the Wall Street privateers run amuck another four years, aided with colossal infusions of conjured-out-of-nothing “money” from the Federal Reserve. He let loose the demons of a high-tech totalitarian “security” state with every sort of electronic surveillance, citizen data-mining, and drone spying that innovation allowed. He stood silent like a Banana Republic store mannequin after the supreme court decided that corporations could buy elections (he could have pushed  loudly for legislation or even a constitutional amendment to redefine corporate “personhood”). And of course, he continued to prosecute the absurd war in Afghanistan where, after nine years, US forces are unable to accomplish the only aims of being there: to control the terrain and to moderate the behavior of the people who live there.
     Hence, the appalling spectacle of the Democratic convention last week, with its odor of ideological bankruptcy, stale rhetoric, and empty promises. The party seeks only validation of its cherished fantasy: the social justice of reelecting the first black president. And all it really has to offer is cheerleading to that end – with some social justice table-scraps tossed to the lesser totems of social justice politics: women, assorted ethnic minorities, and gays. 
     Meanwhile, the “advanced nations” of industrial civilization all spiral into coordinated disintegration, especially in the realm where economy meets finance. Economy is about what we actually do to stay alive: make things, trade things, grow things, run things. Finance is supposed to be about maintaining the flows of accumulated wealth to support these things we do – with a modest service charge for the financiers who do the work. But in the great divorce of truth from reality in our time, finance is only about pretending to maintain these “capital” flows. In fact, it has degenerated into a set of looting operations, swindles, frauds, and political dodges, and it is on the verge of blowing up.
     There’s a fair chance that global finance (and trade) will blow up this season leading to the US elections. The nations of Europe are stuck in an intractable predicament. The European Union can’t control the fiscal operations (taxing and spending) of its sovereign members, and it only pretends to be able to lend them the money to cover the interest payments on their previous loans. That shuck-and-jive is now headed for a climax. But the situation is not materially different in the USA and Japan. In one way or another, they are bankrupt, too, as are probably most of their commercial banks. China’s banks are certainly a fiasco, since they are government-run, with no independent accounting oversight whatsoever. China does have a big cushion of US Treasury holdings, huge stockpiles of industrial metals and cement, and many new tons of recently-acquired gold. But they are also hostage to the bankrupt West’s lost appetite for “consumer” goods, and tens of millions of laid-off Chinese factory workers could foment political upheaval in a delicate time of regime transition coming later this year.
     The antics of the ECB, the US Federal Reserve, and all the other central banks in conjuring ever more money-out-of-nothing draws us toward that event horizon where faith is lost in a faith-based money system. The only question really is whether wealth destruction (deleveraging, debt default) out-paces currency destruction (inflation). My own guess continues to be that wealth destruction wins that contest, with massive unpayable debt sucked into a black hole, and then all the advanced industrial nations waking up one oddly warm morning to find their standards of living destroyed.
     As a political matter in the face of all this, the big question is how we will reorganize daily life – the activities of a whole culture – to comport with the reality of a compressive contraction in economic reality. It also includes the shape and content of the consensus we construct to explain to ourselves what is happening. The obvious epic failure of the two major parties in the USA to even begin this necessary work may propel this country into an historic political convulsion to attend the financial implosion. Imagine, for instance, if the failure of international banks leads to the rapid paralysis of trade supply lines and then to empty shelves in American supermarkets.
     People complain about “the size and burden of government,” but our problems extend to the size and burden of everything, beginning with the number of human beings now vying to occupy the planet and moving to the size and scale of every activity supporting them. Truthful political leadership would engage in preparing the public for a long “to do” list of necessary tasks – from the return to Main Street economies that will follow the inevitable collapse of WalMart to the reorganization of food production when agri-biz style farming fails from scarcities of cheap oil, phosphates, and capital for revolving loans. Include also the rebuilding of transportation networks not based on cars and airplanes and the painful reconstruction of a monetary and banking system based on the rule of law.
      This is the true work of the future: the rebuilding of these systems. All the blather about “jobs” from the presidential convoys is based on looking backward to a way of life that is ending: the age of giant everything, especially corporations. The days of cubicle serfdom are numbered. Useful, gainful work in the decades ahead will be much more about how you fit into your local community.  The word “job” may even become obsolete – a curious artifact of the industrial past. Which party is preparing young people for local agriculture and all the value-added activities around it? Which party understands that the national chain-store model of trade is doomed and Main Streets all over America will have to be re-activated? Which party understands that we’re in the twilight of mass motoring and commercial aviation? And what are they doing to prepare for the implications of that?
     The two doddering parties want to promise more of what we’ve already got in a world that doesn’t have anymore of that to give. The result is likely to be that we will go through all the noisy motions of the 2012 elections only to find ourselves plunged into
a political crisis possibly worse than the Civil War.
Sidebar on  How “Smart” We Think We Are
      TV commercial seen during the Women’s finals of the US Tennis Open:
      Cadillac is bragging that they have replaced the old dashboard knobs and toggles with a “smart” iPad-type control system. Has a car company ever done something so fucking stupid? The whole point of knobs and toggles is that you can keep your eyes on the road while adjusting things by feel. An iPad you actually have to look at to see what you’re tapping on. Expect a colossal death toll from buyers of the latest Cadillacs in the next couple of years. I suppose there’s poetic justice in the automobile age winding down on a note of such supernatural idiocy.

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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

473 Responses to “Zeitgeist Failure” Subscribe

  1. Kurt September 10, 2012 at 8:57 am #

    I’m fairly certain that is has already been established that, one way or another, it is all Booooosh’s fault.
    Your failure to cast appropriate blame in this column has been noted.

  2. TrE September 10, 2012 at 8:58 am #

    Jim: Glad you made it through the replacment. Are you feeling any better yet?
    All: If you haven’t already, as we continue to “spiral into disintegration” (thanks Jim), gather and store some essentials. Shop and buy local. Figure out how to provide for yourself and your family. Get to know your neighbors better. Trust only those people you can see and touch. Ignore the torrent of misleading information.

  3. kulturcritic* September 10, 2012 at 8:59 am #

    All in the family James
    http://kulturcritic.wordpress.com/posts/the-nuclear-family-and-its-discontents/

  4. Neon Vincent September 10, 2012 at 9:01 am #

    I figured you’d continue to vent your spleen over the national political parties’ conventions. Just the same, you’re right about the political parties being vehicles for earning power through wish fulfillment–and I’m saying that as a lowest level party functionary. So long as the game can go on, that’s what the game will be. It will take one hell of a reality check, such as a war with Iran, to change the game and its goals.
    Speaking of changing the game, Matt Taibbi of Rolling Stone on the Left and Mike Lofgren on the Right seem to agree on a different threat to business as usual–that the conflict of the future will be between a transnational wealthy elite and the rest of us. That’s something that could take place even in the midst of contraction. If anything, Lofgren is even more urgent about it than Taibbi. Welcome to Richistan, Snow Crash, and the Hunger Games, all rolled into one.
    I blogged about the shared concerns of Taibbi and Lofgren over at Crazy Eddie’s Motie News, along with Jim’s state’s senior senator supporting science, Alaska and NASA exploring using airships for transportation, National Review exposing the GOP’s authoritarian tendencies on their cover, space news, and Michigan politics, including how the corn pone fascists of the Tea Party are booting out incumbents who take their jobs seriously under the guise of RINO hunting.
    Happy Motoring–for now–from Detroit!
    http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/

  5. Altavoz-de-Verdad September 10, 2012 at 9:02 am #

    Which party is preparing young people for local agriculture and all the value-added activities around it? Which party understands that the national chain-store model of trade is doomed and Main Streets all over America will have to be re-activated? Which party understands that we’re in the twilight of mass motoring and commercial aviation?
    The Reality Party!
    Vote early, vote often and vote for the reality every day through your actions and leading by example.

  6. Onthego September 10, 2012 at 9:08 am #

    Anybody remember Peak Oil?
    Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, writing in the UK Telegraph has an article titled, “Saudi oil well dries up.”
    It says, in part: If Citigroup is right, Saudi Arabia will cease to be an oil exporter by 2030, far sooner than previously thought.
    A 150-page report by Heidy Rehman on the Saudi petrochemical industry should be sober reading for those who think that shale oil and gas have solved our global energy crunch.
    The basic point – common to other Gulf oil producers – is that Saudi local consumption is rocketing. Residential use makes up 50pc of demand, and over two thirds of that is air-conditioning.
    The Saudis also consume 250 litres per head per day of water – the world’s third highest (which blows the mind), growing at 9pc a year – and most of this is provided from energy-guzzling desalination plants. All this is made far worse across the Gulf by fuel subsidies to placate restive populations.
    The Saudis already consume a quarter of their 11.1m barrels a day of crude output. They are using more per capita than the US even though their industrial base as a share of GDP is much smaller. The country already consumes all its gas. (Neighbouring Kuwait is now importing LNG gas from Russia.)
    Jeremy Leggett, the head of the UK Taskforce on Peak Oil and Energy Security, says Britain is sleepwalking into a potential disaster by failing to prepare fully for a global supply crunch.
    The refusal to listen to warning signals is comparable to the complacency in the build-up to the financial crisis, he argues, but with graver implications for the British economy.
    Pritchard agrees. Any thinking person would.

  7. asoka,, September 10, 2012 at 9:14 am #

    Here is the reality, once again, doomers:
    There are very strong indicators that the world is actually getting better for the majority of humanity–fewer wars, lower crime rates, incredible advances in communication, a dramatic democratization of information that promises to catalyze social transformation on a global scale… and the list goes on. Not to mention the steady rise of integral consciousness all across the planet, bringing us ever-closer to a cultural “tipping point”, in much the same way we saw with rational modernism during the European Renaissance, and postmodern pluralism in the 1960’s. This “tipping point” will allow us to find and enact integral solutions for our 21st century problems, with the measure of complexity, compassion, and consciousness that they demand. Needless to say, this is very good news.

  8. evilspeculator September 10, 2012 at 9:16 am #

    In the past few years I have come to realize that it is a complete waste of time trying to fight those windmills. These are all things completely out of your control. Let’s face it – every day we are presented a laundry list of things we are supposed to be worried or scared about. When in reality what really matters in life is very little. Modern society programs us to constantly be unhappy or at minimum to be unsatisfied with what we have. As the saying goes: program your own mind or someone else will do it for you.
    I take care of my myself and I take care of my loved ones and I pretty much ignore all the rest. At minimum I make sure to not become yet another victim of the system. Either that or I’ll be just another cog in the big flaming trainwreck that’s hurdling toward us.
    http://evilspeculator.com

  9. empirestatebuilding September 10, 2012 at 9:18 am #

    If the current system is doomed as you say it is, then I am going to enjoy the ride as long as I can. Stockpiling ammo, gold and canned goods probably won’t do my any good in the end. So if I find myself in a place later on where I wish I had prepared, it will be my own fault. I was warned and chose not to prepare. Thank you for warning me. But screw it, it’s been a good run, I don’t want to be around to pick up the pieces.
    Aimlow Joe was here.
    http://www.aimlow.com

  10. Dirk September 10, 2012 at 9:26 am #

    Good luck with that fantasy world, Asoka. All this enlightenment and better living of which you so wistfully dream takes lots and lots of cheap cheap ENERGY which we are OUT OF. See, that’s the point here. But you keep dreaming.

  11. OccupyMBA September 10, 2012 at 9:29 am #

    Jim, I generally agree with you, although I can’t quite get the liberal wish-fulfillment totem interpretation. It might work as a hindsight rationalization, but think about the Democratic primaries in 2008 and who he was competing with. All the Democratic Party could come up with as a serious rival was Hillary Clinton, and the progressive communities were not keen on another dynasty job after the Bush disaster. There was no one else, to the Dem Party’s chagrin. Who else wanted to clean up W’s mess? Obama rose to the top by default, perhaps naive, perhaps overly ambitious. Plus, since no one could foresee the severity of the economic crash, so no one knew what skills and attitudes would really be needed for a successful presidency 2008-2012. We might have picked someone else…
    I’m not defending Obama, of course.
    To explore the political and economic aftermath of this era, read my installment novel “Inter States” (set in 2040) at http://interstates2040.wikispaces.com
    OccupyMBA!

  12. orbit7er September 10, 2012 at 9:36 am #

    A few weeks ago I had the pleasure to hear Rocky Anderson, Presidential candidate for the Justice Party, past very popular mayor of Salt Lake City who built LightRail against objections and reduced Salt Lake City greenhouse emissions by 31%. ( http://voterocky.org ) Rocky Anderson accepts the reality of Peak Oil and was very happy to receive the “Oil Age” chart ( http://www.oilposter.org ) of critical info on Peak Oil.

    Also interesting in Rocky Anderson’s basic speech was about the abandonment of the rule of Law for War criminals, torturers, the big banks etc.
    Hence the “Justice Party” label. How can there be a democracy if the law is abandoned to favor the rich and well-connected was his fundamental point.

    The Green party has some inklings of this also.

    I think there will be a lot more votes for 3rd parties than the corporate pundits expect in this election.

    If you live in a State where either Corporatist Party is sure to win then vote for the 3rd Party of your choice- Justice Party, Green Party or even Libertarian. Rocky Anderson was especially incensed at the efforts of both Dems and Republicans to not allow Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party on the Pennsylvania ballot.

  13. Richard September 10, 2012 at 9:41 am #

    The one area of this unfolding disaster that you haven’t touched on, for some reason, is the total control of both parties by IAPAC and the Zionist lobby. The Zionists are hell bent on forcing this country into another disastrous war, this time with Iran. The sheer stupidity of this is beyond comprehension. I am amazed how easily the two parties and most of our politicians can be bought and paid for by this evil force.

  14. pedal pusher September 10, 2012 at 9:43 am #

    I’m a little off topic, but I think it’s worth sharing that, a few weeks ago, I attended a dinner party where I met a German economics professor. She lives in Karlshru and commutes by rail to Heidelberg where she teaches.
    She told me that the Germans are anxious to let Greece go, but will keep Spain in the EU (and on the Euro) as that nation has “great potential”. She also assured me that the German Supreme Court will rule with Merkel and the ECB with or without the consensus of the German people.

  15. Jason Heppenstall September 10, 2012 at 9:44 am #

    “Economy is about what we actually do to stay alive: make things, trade things, grow things, run things. Finance is supposed to be about maintaining the flows of accumulated wealth to support these things we do – with a modest service charge for the financiers who do the work. But in the great divorce of truth from reality in our time, finance is only about pretending to maintain these “capital” flows.”
    I think you might have hit the nail on the head there. The sooner people can get this concept the better, although I suspect most won’t.
    22billionenergyslaves.blogspot.com/

  16. elpuma September 10, 2012 at 9:55 am #

    One thing that JHK has failed to hilight, and that most readers simply don’t know, is that America is still in a State of Emergency:
    “On September 11, 2001, the government declared a state of emergency. That declared state of emergency was formally put in writing on 9/14/2001:
    “A national emergency exists by reason of the terrorist attacks at the World Trade Center, New York, New York, and the Pentagon, and the continuing and immediate threat of further attacks on the United States.
    NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, I hereby declare that the national emergency has existed since September 11, 2001 . . . .”
    That declared state of emergency has continued in full force and effect from 9/11 [throughout the Bush administration] to the present.
    On September 10 2009, President Obama continued the state of emergency:
    The terrorist threat that led to the declaration on September 14, 2001, of a national emergency continues. For this reason, I have determined that it is necessary to continue in effect after September 14, 2009, the national emergency with respect to the terrorist threat.”
    What does this mean?
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/yes-america-is-still-in-an-official-state-of-emergency/

  17. A Change in the Weather September 10, 2012 at 9:58 am #

    However disappointing Obama is for the reasons you list, Jim, one really has to consider the immediate alternative this November. Obama didn’t have the nerve to break up the banks, fearing the ensuing chaos would open wide the door for a right-wing coup, a la the Smedley Butler plot in the 1930s that gave us the House Un-American Activities Committee.
    I’m not sure how to break this duopolistic, Rep-Dem dynamic, like getting the Green Party into contention, without a crisis. But, like one’s own death, one tends to put off that horrifying moment as long as possible.
    The crisis is coming, though, no doubt, possibly before the election, more likely after, when the “fiscal cliff” is suddenly visible through the windshield of the accelerating cars both parties are driving in their game of chicken.
    In the meantime, we’re stuck with Obama and Etch-a-Sketch. One is disappointing, the other is
    the vanguard of right-wing Old Testament authoritarian unreason. Do a quick thought experiment: play out the coming economic crisis, and substitute Romney for Obama. If Romney’s in charge, the attitudes of the antebellum South–rigid, aristocratic social structure, a serf class (undocumented aliens paid pennies and threatened with deportation unless they keep quiet and keep working), unassailable, God-appointed white Anglo Christian male dominance, infatuation with personal honor to the point of violence–could well be our permanent future.
    If Romney’s in charge when the ice cap breaks up, and the weather goes nuts as it very well may in the next eight years, that will kick any financial crisis (ongoing for the reasons you cite)into overdrive. Only one way to control that civil unrest, according to the ultra-right: martial law. After all, the security of the country is at stake, from terrorists–foreign and domestic.

  18. jarrollin September 10, 2012 at 10:06 am #

    but james you don’t understand … my mommy and daddy said i could have all those things … and be just like my mommy and daddy … you sound like that awful man sigmund freud, talking about wish-fulfillment … do you think that’s for bad little boys and girls? if you keep talking like this, i’m going to tell on you to mr obama.

  19. Smokyjoe September 10, 2012 at 10:10 am #

    “a political crisis possibly worse than the Civil War”?
    I doubt it. JHK, like many of the Doomers here, are engaging in some wish-fulfillment. Instead, we might get a slide into a dirty mediocrity, a has-been nation like Portugal (which, truth be told, is lovely and its folk friendly). We’ll have enough oil and gas to eke by, and we’ll keep fighting among ourselves until a majority of former minorities, attacked by Right-wing loons and neo-Nazis like our Vladdie, triumph.
    We’ll lack the Portuguese gift for getting by in lovely ways. And China will rise, perhaps after a global war.
    JHK is correct that Obama should have railed against the People United disaster. His failure, like the withering of the Occupy movement’s public face in the streets, shows how beaten we have been by the power of the banks and major corporations.

  20. nino September 10, 2012 at 10:19 am #

    Great post.
    “Truthful political leadership would engage in preparing the public for a long “to do” list of necessary tasks…”
    True, but the resistance from the “American Elitism” crowd is far to great to even talk about it let alone start on any real tasks.
    “Which party is preparing young people for local agriculture and all the value-added activities around it?”
    Well, none. There are pockets around this country. If you’re not already in one find one!
    As the great Kurt Vonnegut once said, “It is going to take a gang [ a community ]. A man, woman, two kids, a dog and a gold fish aren’t going to make it.”

  21. Poet September 10, 2012 at 10:23 am #

    JHK sez:
    ” President Obama’s historical role will be seen as a wish-fulfillment totem for late 20th century progressive liberalism – the first black president.”

    *************************

    President Obama fulfills a big part of Martin Luther King Jr’s wish in the famous dream speech given at the Lincoln Memorial over 50 years ago. He will be among the first prominent African Americans who will be despised not for the color of his skin but the content (or lack thereof) of his character. Way to go BHO! Hoot Hoot!! (military applause)

  22. Tangurena September 10, 2012 at 10:30 am #

    The pushbutton screen isn’t new. Buick had one in the Riviera back in the 1980s. Sample youtube of an 89 Buick Reatta:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFeTZGKkxwY
    A few concept cars used that along with IR & light intensifiers to display road hazards such as deer dashing across the road at night. It was so far off the driver’s line of sight that it was unusable.

  23. DreamCycle September 10, 2012 at 10:34 am #

    “lesser totems of social justice politics: women, assorted ethnic minorities, and gays.” ????
    Geeeez!

  24. Common Cents September 10, 2012 at 10:43 am #

    On 20 May 2008 the Baltic Dry Index (BDI) reached its record high level since its introduction in 1985, reaching 11,793 points. Half a year later, on 5 December 2008, the index had dropped by 94%, to 663 points, the lowest since 1986. As of this morning, the BDI stands at 669 and is trending lower. For those who don’t know, the BDI is the benchmark indicator of world trade. Seems we’re in a bit of a pickle.

  25. wardoc September 10, 2012 at 10:43 am #

    “the big question is how we will reorganize daily life – the activities of a whole culture – to comport with the reality of a compressive contraction in economic reality.”
    I would rephrase this to…how will we organize to cope with the reality that is thrust upon us when our delicate and intricate systems collapse in front of us, leaving the soft and entitled masses shocked, hungry, and angry as hell at everyone else.
    If any semblance of civilization survives what’s coming, the lessons that will be gained and recorded about how man, both individuals and groups, behaves during true survival level crisis will be the objects of serious study for centuries to come.
    Then again, perhaps it will all be lost into the dustbin of history.

  26. tstreet September 10, 2012 at 10:50 am #

    No mention of the fact that the economy is ultimately dependent upon the ecological health of the planet, its underlying biological environment. This is rapidly deteriorating, but its final blow will be global warming. Not even sure that local or any other agriculture will be viable in the future.

  27. RyeBeachBum September 10, 2012 at 10:59 am #

    My bumper sticker for Jolton Joe Biden and those that think this is a progressive freedom loving Presidency is
    Russell Means is in Jail and John Corzine is free.

  28. theant September 10, 2012 at 11:09 am #

    Put Romney in charge. I remember how motivated we were in the last days of Bush. Now we are faithfull side-stepping cold fish morons. They are both sides of the same coin. If I was ever going to vote for one of these Two-Party Clowns again I would choose the hot side so we can get this party started.
    Obama gives us insideous encroachment on the last of our freedoms etc. Romney will pick a fight with us. That is the guy I want…A clear goal for all to see.

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    I do not want to only In essence, the economy is only the surface of the driving force, if there is no intrinsic human needs, but businessman burn the game, let alone to become a social phenomenon.

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  31. sevenmmm September 10, 2012 at 11:30 am #

    Heck, with the false nutrient report of commercial food being on par with organic, the young people will look on local argriculture with disdain.
    Now. Are they simply ignorant, or are they under the influence of black magic as practiced by all past despots?

  32. xport September 10, 2012 at 11:40 am #

    You paint a grim picture, the path is very rocky and the leaders are lost. What more can we do? Fish bin Laden out of the sea and kill him again?
    Things will fumble along until they crumble, then we will fumble along again.

  33. ozone September 10, 2012 at 11:46 am #

    common cents, wardoc, tstreet and RyeBeachBum.
    Collectively, you’ve outlined the Big Picture.
    Historically, we’ve seen how people act [and react] in times of want, disease and other pressures imposed by either Nature or human stupidity and hubris.
    When we couple the bankruptcy of political ideas (by conscious subversion, I would opine) with the gigantic natural pressures (energy and resource depletion and climatic mutation), I believe we’re heading for a perfect storm where survival, not “comforts” and convenience, will be paramount. Since this is not being seen as a possibility, and is even scoffed at by most, the shock will be unprecedented and quite immune to containment by the usual bromides.
    Needless to say, this scenario isn’t good, but it seems to be where we’re headed by dint of sheer ignorance and wishful thinking.
    How many of the lumpen even have any fucking idea, or self-informed opinion as to why the “heroic troops” are in the M.E. clusterfuck nightmare, or even give a shit? Extrapolate from your personal answer to that what road we might be on and what we’ll find at its’ end.
    Oh, we’ll get change all right; but it may not be the version we’d hope for…
    (BTW, nothing is going to blow up until after the election, no matter how much Nuttin’Yahoo would like to think he can blackmail the FUSA into another EROEI-negative war. The actors have all got to be on their marks.)

  34. kulturcritic* September 10, 2012 at 11:47 am #

    “He stood silent like a Banana Republic store mannequin…/”
    Classic, James

  35. Rhino September 10, 2012 at 11:49 am #

    You are exactly right. Cheap energy is the key. It goes into the maintenance of complex industrial processes that produce communication devices plus the underlying hardware and software.
    And all of the advances in communication and the democratization of information depend on a system of specialization and division of labor which itself depends on a system of enormously productive, mechanized agriculture that frees up all but a small percentage of the population from work on the farm. Which again depends on torrents of cheap energy to manufacture and run the machines that mechanized farms need.
    Asoka seems not to have understood what goes on before his very eyes. After all why are expensive sources of energy like oil sands being mined? Why is the price of oil once again approaching 100 bucks a barrel?
    You can say there are other factors besides demand based on actual consumption or supply based on actual production. Like Fed policies or Wall Street manipulation. I wonder if anyone tried to factor in the effect on the price of oil of the Fed debasing the greenback or the effect of speculation on oil markets. They probably have. A real exercise in fucking with numbers, dicking with assumptions to come up with the results you want.
    But Asoka only seems to not have understood, his raison d’etre on this site seemingly not being to illuminate. Hence the post you responded to. Some of what he says is true but ignores obvious and deeply troubling undercurrents of events. His m.o. seems to be to obstruct comprehension, to subtract from the sum total of understanding. Don’t worry, be happy. Why this would be I have no idea. Maybe he can answer this question himself.

  36. xhalor September 10, 2012 at 11:52 am #

    “Your failure to cast appropriate blame in this column has been noted.”
    Unbelievable. The very first comment reveals the personality disorder that drives the inability of Americans to accept an ever-changing reality.
    Who gets the blame for this mess. And once blame is assigned, then what? The blameless sit back and watch the guilty “fix” everything.
    This is the height of intellilectual laziness and, more importantly, COWARDICE.
    Get ready for martial law. It is undoubtedly coming. And it will work until the growing power of local thugs runs the military off. Then we will have civil war.

  37. cheesemoose September 10, 2012 at 11:56 am #

    Jim, don’t you think it’s about time to give your readers some accounting of the accuracy of your predictions? For a guy who’s always criticizing America in the harshest terms – and constantly predicting its immanent demise – it seems only fair to point out how consistently wrong your predictions are.
    This spring you prognosticated over and over again how the conventions of both parties would be conflagrations of protest from a fed-up populace.
    The reality? Barely a peep.
    It’s funny, because your writing is full of intelligent analysis and penetrating insight. Your gift for describing the current state of affairs in colorful language is matched by only the great Matt Taibbi.
    But, dude, your batting average when it comes to actually predicting stuff is anemic. And you just won’t stop, no matter how many times you are wrong! I almost wish you’d publish your column on Saturdays and include your NFL picks – so I could bet the opposite right down the line and make some money.
    What is this obsession of yours with prognosticating? The desperate need of the tavern loudmouth to prove he’s smarter than everybody else? I’ll admit the seltzer-down-the-pants routine of always being wrong adds a sense of tragic-comedy worthy of Krusty The Clown. But, jeez, it must be embarrassing to predict the masses are going to descend on Wall Street with pitchforks on Tuesday – and find that, once again, everybody decided to stay home and watch TV.
    Please, Jim, in the name of journalistic fairness: please give us an accounting of the accuracy of your predictions over the years.

  38. Rhino September 10, 2012 at 11:58 am #

    What more can we do? Fish bin Laden out of the sea and kill him again? – X
    It would at least havethe benefit of never having been tried.
    Like the impossibly convoluted soap opera story line: a character who was apparently killed and dead as a door nail makes a re-appearance.
    Maybe they can say they killed a Bin Laden double. Maybe they can say the real Bin Laden is still on the loose and busy plotting new outrages.
    Somebody said a while back that they really don’t want to catch Bin Laden because then that movie would be over. Maybe from that perspective killing Bin Laden was a mistake.

  39. ozone September 10, 2012 at 12:05 pm #

    …And as further indicator, the usual despicable character stops by with more cheap crap to buy, imbedded in weird news-like articles mass-translated from the Chinese. (This is, of course, only to irritate the hell out of us, but notice its’ pointed consumerist bent.)
    Insane? Yes. Any more insane than the craven fantasy-lands of the population at large? Possibly not.

  40. xhalor September 10, 2012 at 12:06 pm #

    “…always being wrong adds a sense of tragic-comedy worthy of Krusty The Clown.”
    This comparison has made me seek the counsel of the great American philosopher Bart Simpson.
    In response to the first commenter “Kurt” I would just say
    “I didn’t do it.”

  41. Newfie September 10, 2012 at 12:09 pm #

    “waking up one oddly warm morning”
    Peak oil is going to be a picnic compared to the climate catastrophe the burnt oil is going to unleash. Three cyclones are prowling the Atlantic. That ocean may eventually become a hurricane factory, hurling them at coastal cities every week.

  42. Steve M. September 10, 2012 at 12:13 pm #

    Obama DID call for a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United. Just don’t expect state legislatures controlled by Republicans (i.e., the majority of them) to ratify it, if it ever gets to the states in the FIRST place!

  43. budizwiser September 10, 2012 at 12:19 pm #

    I would like a little help.
    I think some sort of “big deals” will happen in the US after the election. The reason I think this – is that as soon as Obama is re-elected there will be less prioritizing of institutional lying to the public about current events.
    I think that either bits and pieces of the “truth” will become public – or else bold new “dis-reality” lies will be told. Either case will be cause for much public imposition and create mainstream media headlines.
    Can anyone guess or predict what some of these “truths” or mis-informational headlines will be? What will be on the TV news every night a few weeks after the election?
    New conflict? New shortage? New “good news?” Please use “budiz” in your response – I will respond to intelligent remarks – I think….

  44. ozone September 10, 2012 at 12:19 pm #

    Good “catch”, youse guys!
    What would be the motivation for dumping the body in the vastness of the ocean? “Geez, the dead guy kinda just slipped outta my grip; you know, all that blood and stuff…” (Notice how that particular bit of strangeness is carefully avoided like a bad smell.) Is that addressed in the latest “historical novel” that the CIA said was “unauthorized”? Probably not, but I’m not going to read that pack of self-serving lies to find out.

  45. 3rd Generation September 10, 2012 at 12:22 pm #

    “Expect a colossal death toll from buyers of the latest Cadillacs in the next couple of years.”
    One can only Hope.
    Darwin on overtime.

  46. ozone September 10, 2012 at 12:36 pm #

    “The FBI expects the NGI system to include as many as 14 million photographs by the time the project is in full swing in only two years, but the pace of technology and the new connections constantly created by law enforcement agencies could allow for a database that dwarfs that estimate. As RT reported earlier this week, the city of Los Angeles now considers photography in public space “suspicious,” and authorizes LAPD officers to file reports if they have reason to believe a suspect is up to no good.”
    I feel safer, don’t you?
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32398.htm
    What would be the purpose here? The Stasi comes to town and nary a cough or mutter. Zeitgeist Failure, indeed. The chains are still quite comfortable it seems.
    Place your bets.

  47. Nastarana September 10, 2012 at 12:38 pm #

    Maybe I was looking in the wrong place, but I find no mention on Rocky Anderson’s website about food and farm policy, water resourses and land use. You cannot be a western state politician without a position and track record on these issues.
    It looks to me like Romney is running the same scam in the general that he did in the promaries, putting out fringe candidates to siphon a few greenish lefty votes away from Obama. I wonder what Anderson has been promised? Interior, perhaps.

  48. Freiwaldauer September 10, 2012 at 12:40 pm #

    “…in Afghanistan where, after nine years, US forces are unable to accomplish the only aims of being there: to control the terrain and to moderate the behavior of the people who live there.”
    This is so funny. You could turn this around: Taliban is there to moderate the behavior of US forces (which they do by the way very successfully).
    There won’t be any revolution in USA or Europe any time soon. The general population still have it too good. They’re quacking about their discontent, but they will hardly do anything about it. Many of them will be quite relieved that the ‘shop till you drop’ party is finally over.
    And then we’ll slide into what’s always been the normal mode of operation – 1% rich layer lording it over the 99% of basic living types. I for one see nothing wrong with this arrangement.

  49. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 12:40 pm #

    Maybe from that perspective killing Bin Laden was a mistake.
    He knew too much and there was danger the American people might find out that he was not the evil genius he was cracked up to be. Evil yes, but able to pull of what he did without a whole lot of help. No way.
    ✍✍✍✍✍✍✍✍✍✍✍✍✍✍✍✍✍✍✍✍
    The greatest obstacle to the reality party is the poor ability of the people in general to detect political deception. Raise this and we begin solving our problems. Politicians will begin to respond to the truth when it becomes in their best interest to do so, not before.
    Structural factors have resulted in hostile and successful opposition to acceptance of reality to become the emergent and dominant property of society. Because the structure of society is largely invisible this has caused good dogs from all walks of life to bark up the wrong tree and to try and solve the wrong problems.
    The problems we face are not actually technical in nature, they are social problems and need to be understood as such. As long as deceit and corrupt behavior rewards politicians more than truthful behavior they will continue to behave badly and will in fact become more evil with each passing day as the race to the bottom intensifies.
    The break-up and reorganization of the banks plus hearty prosecution of their executives for massive swindling would have been a game changer. Instead we are guaranteed more of the same, and in spades. I expect Quo-bama to behave differently now conjures up that definition of insanity, doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result.
    Obama supports the dominant life form on the planet, corporations. Not you. Romney supports not only corporations but from the neck down is one. Elect the dog or we are screwed again.
    ?: Obama (Mendacious lies and deception.)
    ?: Romney (Return to aristocracy with mendacious lies and deception.)
    ?: K-Dog (The virtuous choice.)

  50. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 12:43 pm #

    oops here we go again:
    I expect Quo-bama to behave differently…
    should be: To expect Quo-bama to behave differently…

  51. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 12:51 pm #

    1% rich layer lording it over the 99% of basic living types. I for one see nothing wrong with this arrangement.
    Care to explain that last remark? Are you a dog with balls?

  52. ront September 10, 2012 at 12:55 pm #

    I loved this brilliant definition/observation:
    “Economy is about what we actually do to stay alive: make things, trade things, grow things, run things. Finance is supposed to be about maintaining the flows of accumulated wealth to support these things we do – with a modest service charge for the financiers who do the work. But in the great divorce of truth from reality in our time, finance is only about pretending to maintain these “capital” flows. In fact, it has degenerated into a set of looting operations, swindles, frauds, and political dodges, and it is on the verge of blowing up.”
    Even the smallest of efforts to take a stand on the truth as you see it, out of a sense of duty, love of service, or even for real self-fulfillment, has an effect–seen or unseen. Reality and unfailing faith in its benevolence will win the victory.

  53. Lindy1933 September 10, 2012 at 1:02 pm #

    My wife and I went to a local casino here in Reno/Sparks NV for supper. This state has the highest unemployment in the nation. The casino was packed. We had to wait for a half hour to eat.
    I happened to note the TV at the sports book was showing a football game an scaned the stadium which was packed 50K people or more. The freeway was full of cars.
    Someone is not getting the “Doom” word OR we are not as doomed as thought. Yes, my wife and I are rather prepared for emergency but it is really stupid to live in fear.

  54. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 1:03 pm #

    Reality and unfailing faith in its benevolence will win the victory.
    Just believing that isn’t enough. The race to the bottom by corrupt politicians dominates the race to the top by virtuous politicians. Deceitful dogs can always make more promises than honest dogs because the honest dog won’t make a promise he/she cant deliver and a lying dog will.
    JHK has been on the right track by demanding prosecution. Making deceitful dogs pay is the only way to make them go away. Consequences matter.

  55. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 1:06 pm #

    Asoka,, is not Asoka..
    Someone is impersonating the real Asoka.
    But I would like to comment on your comment.
    You seem to equate energy with fossil fuels.
    Do you not believe that people in the 1800’s laughed, loved, and lived well … before the era of “cheap energy”?
    Do you really think when we run out of fossil fuels that we will have no more “cheap energy”?
    How much are you paying for the sun falling on your garden? How much are you paying for the wind to blow? How much cheaper can you get than free?

  56. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 1:09 pm #

    But you don’t notice the forgotten and disappeared. Unemployed people don’t drive on the freeways. As things get worse more people will concentrate on the positive and ignore the negative in their cry of ‘say it ain’t so.
    You go into a casino in a state with the highest unemployment and don’t see any unemployed. That really is not very surprising.

  57. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 1:13 pm #

    Ok, budiz. I got one word for you.
    IRAN

  58. Rhino September 10, 2012 at 1:20 pm #

    Do you not believe that people in the 1800’s laughed, loved, and lived well … before the era of “cheap energy”? – Asoka
    Pull your head out of your ass.
    My grandparents were born in the 1800s. So were some other of my relatives. I remember well the stories of their lives back then and of their parents lives. They lived the same type of life that the great mass of humanity lived characterized by deprivation and hunger and sickness. And no they didn’t live well. And no they didn’t take it all in stride. When you’re in misery your thoughts revolve around the alleviation of misery.

  59. IS4U September 10, 2012 at 1:27 pm #

    Jim,
    Please reconsider the making of specific predictions of doom. Your credibility is being wrecked beyond repair. Try Richard Heinberg’s more circumspect approach. In blogs earlier this year You repeatedly predicted significant disruptions pf 2012 RNC and DNC by angry protesters. I can’t speak for the RNC but I attended the DNC as an alternate delegate. No such disruptions took place for two reasons:
    1) The occupy folks claim that they speak for the 99% but in reality, Occupy and other activists with affinity to the Occupy movement comprise only a fraction of 1% of Americans. Most of the 99% remain apathetic and clueless.
    2) There were at least 2 uniformed cops and other security folks for every protestor venturing into the Charlotte city limits. There were few if any reports of police brutality toward protestors because militarized police and security were there with an overwhelming show of force. Even blatant provocation of police violence by protestors would have been futile. Anyone attempting such would have been immediately obscured from cameras by uniforms and whisked away to waiting police vans.
    Today you again predict for the umpteenth time some calamity involving the Eurozone before Nov. 6th. We’ll see, I guess, but I’m wondering whether you have been confusing the terrain with your map of the Long Emergency.
    John

  60. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 1:30 pm #

    budiz, three more, Yemen, Somalia, Al Qaeda(thats considered one word)
    And concerning Al Qaeda, Note to all Arabs:
    DO NOT USE AL QAEDA in naming your organizations. You will be mistaken and considered to be the real thing. Nothing personal but the theatre demands it.
    It’s showtime:
    Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula’s second in command killed.
    I suggest a minor change in the script.
    About that DNA confirmation. How you going to do that? Do you have his DNA on file? Is it in CODIS? How many other foreign nationals currently residing in Yemen do you have DNA samples for?
    Didn’t think so.

  61. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 1:32 pm #

    Do drones leave DNA evidence?

  62. Freiwaldauer September 10, 2012 at 1:35 pm #

    I’m sitting at the moment in a beer hall in Eastern Ukraine city of Donetsk where people make $400 a month. Their life is not easy, but it’s not desperate either. Food is organic because they don’t have money for pesticides etc.
    They are ruled by local oligarchs who skim away most of the money. The result is a population which is not fat, who do not have artificial needs, who do not subject themselves to the deprivation of consumerism and who know how to live it up on Saturday night.
    I don’t think that the one-percenters are any happier than most of 99ers. That’s why I could not care less about who rules us – one party, two parties,… Life is too short to pay attention to unimportant issues.

  63. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 1:35 pm #

    You pull your head out of your ass. Your grandparents did not have 1/100 of the knowledge base we have today.
    The knowledge we have acquired since the 1800s will improve our post-fossil fuels quality of life, over what we were able to achieve prior to the beginning of the 1800s with a much diminished knowledge base.
    Oh, I forgot you disdain pointy-headed intellectuals in ivory towers! You only value “workers.”
    You need to face reality and stop making false equivalencies. In a way, you are committing what Wilber calls the “pre/trans fallacy.” This distorts your view and leads to fundamental errors in your analysis.

  64. jaiseli September 10, 2012 at 1:39 pm #

    RE: Cadillac TV commercial
    yo, James
    1) great observation!
    Cadillac to Cattle-lac.
    Another spin on the LDM’s (Lame Dream Media)
    campaign of distraction and increased
    corporate profits thru carnage?
    Bet the CONgressional legisTRAITORS are
    already salivating over the idea of addtional
    non-productive gov’t largess to regulate it.
    2) really sad – and surprised – to learn that you not only waste your time to “vote” – indirectly participating in election fraud – but, also that you bit on the current Puppet, Barry Soetoro/Frank Marshall Davis,Jr. AKA Busted Obummer’s choreographed BS. Do you think it may be true that there is a correlation between an individual’s level of intelligence and predisposition to hypnotism?
    y’all be noticed – with LOVE, of course!
    these are exciting times for the awakening, repentant, preparing – those seeking to live righteously according to the ABSOLUTE Laws of AYEC (almighty yahweh elohim Creator), prescribed in the written Word and interpreted through the holy Spirit.
    1) get GROUNDED! – rural(50+ miles out), unencumbered, arable land
    2) get GROUPED! – ya can’t operate/survive-to-thrive ALONE! Such is the blessing and the joy of learning to live TOGETHER again in an integral, multi-generational family environment – home-grown, home-schooled, Homeward-bound – withOUT FEAR!
    3) get GUNNED! – if/when the armed and desperate or roving gov’t-funded Fast-&-Furious gangs show up to take your “pearls” by intimidation or force, be prepared to offer – as a last resort – the swine, balls of hot lead instead. those who foolishly expect “agents” of the “fraud” gov’t to protect/save their sorry ass will be exactly that: SORRY – homeless, hungry, sitting in a FEMA camp, DEAD or, perhaps even worse, UNABLE/UNWILLING to SERVE others ready to repent and once again become productive contributors/collaborators.
    without prejudice by: “jaiseli”
    an irascible, incorrigible and formerly reprehensible but now redeemed reprobate.
    not “just a” man, but “a just” Man,
    a very unique, special and sentient Man,
    a unitary, unanimous majority of ONE,
    wholly owned subsidiary of and humble servant to AYEC (almighty yahweh Elohim Creator).
    firmly “berthed” on the county soil, Pinal, in Arizona, a constituted republic, one of the united States of America.
    freely choosing to covenant with and “under stand” the supreme jurisdiction of AYEC,
    as provided through the appellate jurisdiction of the Redeemer.
    expressly reserving all inherent Rights and Liberties accorded per the Declaration of Independence, and prescribed in the Word as interpreted through the holy Spirit.

  65. sideroomjunkie September 10, 2012 at 1:41 pm #

    I love the sidebar!

  66. mayberrymachiavellian September 10, 2012 at 1:45 pm #

    Those new hips are working some magic: great column today, and some good comments to boot (can someone delete the Canadian Goose Parka guy?)
    Well, politics in a mass-democracy involving tens or hundreds of millions of voters has always been an exercise in hucksterism. JFK ran against Nixon on the “missile gap” and out-Cold-Warred Eisenhower’s butt-boy. Did that have anything whatsoever to do with reality?
    One curiosity to me is that we now have a huge bloc of voters, many of them so-called Tea Partiers, who actively embrace policies that are explicitly against their own self-interest.
    Few of the people who post here accept the usual “frame” of American political debates, which is one of the things that makes the comments here sometimes interesting. But bear with me for a moment and consider the issue of health-care reform. Anyone who’s fought an evil health-insurer over “benefits” at the bedside of a seriously ill or dying loved one cannot help but develop a mortal enmity to these vampiric creeps, whose business model is to deny care and impose so many bureaucratic obstacles that insureds and their relatives just give up trying to get reimbursed whatever pittance they are due.
    Tens of millions of Americans have been through this crap, and have endured the additional nightmare of being uninsurable due to “pre-existing condtions.”
    Today, Romney has “clarified” his postion on this issue (see: http://tinyurl.com/9k2v2oy).
    Think about this: Romney is actually trying to get elected by telling tens of millions of Americans he is opposed to one of the few understandable benefits of Obamacare, rolling back a particularly pernicious practice that has bedeviled them for decades.
    This is a selling point for the Tea-Party base!
    It’s really pretty breath-taking: millions of idiots who would benefit enormously from “Obamacare” are dead-set against it, and support a candidate who wants to repeal it. It’s a miraculous demonstration of the power of propaganda. Sort of like Goebbels persuading the Jews it’s in their own self interest to vote for Hitler because, I don’t know, Adolf’s opponent seems so … foreign?
    If the logic of current politics is this ass-backwards, what hope is there for any modicum of sense as we go about the business of having a presidential election?

  67. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 1:45 pm #

    I also have googled some of the crap to see where it comes from. It comes from Taiwan and the Mainland with the bling links randomly thrown in.
    It is somebody’s (or some organization’s) crude attempt at an automatic comment writer. The ‘somebody’ could be anywhere in the world.
    But that’s just one of many scoffers today. The blog must be sailing towards the truth for so many to appear and rain on the parade.

  68. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 1:47 pm #

    He, she, it, is the blog equivalent of a drone.

  69. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 1:56 pm #

    “JFK ran against Nixon on the “missile gap” and out-Cold-Warred Eisenhower’s butt-boy. Did that have anything whatsoever to do with reality?”
    The lie worked and the next time we had an election that success resulted in more lies. It has been this way ever since though the ‘missile gap’ was not actually the start but a link in a long chain. With each election the lies grew as did the success of using them until today the lies are so great that politicians only answer to the corporations, their masters.
    “Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,”

    The spiral of lies will get larger and larger until Americans demand truth.

  70. MrFreeze September 10, 2012 at 2:02 pm #

    I’ve often wondered how it is that people especially those living in wealthy conditions (e.g. with indoor plumbing, electricity, low-crime-rates, infrastructures, etc.) can go on about “we’re better off now than in any time in history.” Been to any places other than the U.S. or Germany? Most of the world lives in abject poverty……….let me repeat that: ABJECT POVERTY, in conditions that no one would acknowledge as acceptabe. For most of the world’s people just getting from point A to point B is a struggle.
    I think you need to rethink your perspective on how wonderful our modern world truly is.

  71. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 2:03 pm #

    That’s crazy.

  72. Jimmy Drinkwater September 10, 2012 at 2:03 pm #

    Exemplary essay this morning JHK. Just a note to say thanks for distilling the situation clearly as it is regardless of the way various predictions say it will play out. I go through my week bombarded by all the ‘shuck and jive’ and look forward to Monday’s screed as way of re-centering on what’s really happening.

  73. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 2:09 pm #

    “Fish bin Laden out of the sea and kill him again?”
    How do we know he is really in the sea? How do we know he wasn’t killed to keep him quiet years ago?
    Not showing the body was really stupid if there really was one.
    Being as Quo-Bama never kept any of his campaign promises his ability to lie to the American people should be obvious.

  74. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 2:14 pm #

    What’s the point. You don’t need it, you’ve decided.

  75. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 2:19 pm #

    See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.
    Do you really think that those living in comfortable or wealthy conditions are exposed to reality enough to see it for as it is?

  76. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 2:20 pm #

    grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
    how bout just:
    enough to see it as it is?

  77. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 2:26 pm #

    Asoka,, is not Asoka..
    Someone is impersonating me. But I would like to comment on your comment.
    Do you realize how much disease, illness, and suffering was caused in the past by a simple lack of knowledge of waste water treatment? I have been around the world. I have lived in the Third World for over a decade. I have seen happy people who live in poverty. They don’t stop loving, laughing, and dancing just because they don’t have a pot to piss in. You paint life as a horror and do not recognize the reality. People rise above horrific living conditions.
    And you probably also discount the rapid rate of knowledge accumulation and what it portends for the future. Consider this development in waste water treatment:
    “CORVALLIS, Ore. – Engineers at Oregon State University have made a breakthrough in the performance of microbial fuel cells that can produce electricity directly from wastewater, opening the door to a future in which waste treatment plants not only will power themselves, but will sell excess electricity.
    The new technology developed at OSU can now produce 10 to 50 more times the electricity, per volume, than most other approaches using microbial fuel cells, and 100 times more electricity than some.
    Researchers say this could eventually change the way that wastewater is treated all over the world, replacing the widely used “activated sludge” process that has been in use for almost a century. The new approach would produce significant amounts of electricity while effectively cleaning the wastewater.
    The findings have just been published in Energy and Environmental Science, a professional journal, in work funded by the National Science Foundation.”
    OUR BIG GOVERNMENT WORKING FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL, NOT JUST “AMERICANS”
    And there are hundreds, thousands, of such developments which will make the post-fossil fuel era much different than the pre-fossil fuel era.

  78. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 2:32 pm #

    Get ready for martial law. It is undoubtedly coming. And it will work until the growing power of local thugs runs the military off. Then we will have civil war.
    But can they? 750 million rounds can take out a few local thugs. Even the social security administration is buying ammo.
    ?: Obama (Deception and suppression, waterboarding optional.)
    ?: Romney (More deception and suppression, waterboarding guaranteed.)
    ?: K-Dog (Peace and love, no waterboarding.)
    Write me in.

  79. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 2:35 pm #

    “Being as Quo-Bama never kept any of his campaign promises…”
    Still pushing the Big Lie, eh? Obama has kept hundreds of his promises, which is why he is hated. He is a LIBERAL, an ACTIVIST, and EFFECTIVE.
    For 90 years presidents tried to get health reform with no success. Millions remained uninsured. Obama got ‘er done. In 2014 those millions will have health insurance, thanks to the Affordable Care Act.
    Obama promised to end the war in Iraq. And he did.
    I could go on. But your lie is so blatant it only needs a few examples, like the law Obama signed his first day in office giving the women access to the courts if they discover they are not being paid the same as men for the same work.

  80. xhalor September 10, 2012 at 2:47 pm #

    Dodging bullets is not what troubles me about the imposition of martial law. It’s the “other” tactics and technologies. Even then, they will only be effective for so long. Once they have been deployed, it is just a matter of time before the other side comes into possesion of the same. It’s defection in the ranks that the US military has to worry about. Last time I checked, you don’t have to be a US citizen to join our military.

  81. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 2:47 pm #

    Oh boy,
    Attack of the cornucopian.
    I toured a treatment plant this summer Asoka. Waste is so diluted by the time it hits a treatment plant that it takes energy to separate it from the wastewater. The plant I toured produces all the methane gas it can which is sold or burned to produce electricity.
    All the energy recovered can only offset 1/3 of the energy it takes to run the plant. Significant energy is produced yes, but not enough to run the plant. To run the plant as a net producer of electricity is physically impossible. The energy required to clean the water exceeds the energy the water contains, simple as that.
    To make wastewater produce net energy COMPLETE replacement of the sewer system would be required. The woman who gave me the tour was concerned that funds just to maintain the system as it is could be a problem in the years ahead might be hard to come by.
    *****
    I can already hear the But K-Dog…………
    *****
    Do you know any algebra Asoka?

  82. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 2:48 pm #

    For most of the world’s people just getting from point A to point B is a struggle. I think you need to rethink your perspective on how wonderful our modern world truly is.
    Oh! You picked a bad example. If you get out of the USA, you will find many countries with well-developed systems of public mass transit.
    In South America, where I live part of the year, a car is not necessary. I have traveled extensively in rural areas of South America in buses, colectivos (small vans or jeeps), chivas also called escaleras (open-sided buses that climb up into remote Andes mountains sites), and even by horse.
    Without a car, getting from point A to point B is much more difficult in the USA than in other parts of the world.

  83. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 2:52 pm #

    All the energy recovered can only offset 1/3 of the energy it takes to run the plant.
    ===============
    That is true today. That will not be true in the future, thanks to the research at UO. The entire plant, the cleaning of waste water, and excess electricity to sell will be produced by the plant itself. As long as we have a source of waste we’ll be fine. Just keep eating and shitting and it will all work out in time.
    “CORVALLIS, Ore. – Engineers at Oregon State University have made a breakthrough in the performance of microbial fuel cells that can produce electricity directly from wastewater, opening the door to a future in which waste treatment plants not only will power themselves, but will sell excess electricity.
    The new technology developed at OSU can now produce 10 to 50 more times the electricity, per volume, than most other approaches using microbial fuel cells, and 100 times more electricity than some.
    Researchers say this could eventually change the way that wastewater is treated all over the world, replacing the widely used “activated sludge” process that has been in use for almost a century. The new approach would produce significant amounts of electricity while effectively cleaning the wastewater.
    The findings have just been published in Energy and Environmental Science, a professional journal, in work funded by the National Science Foundation.”
    OUR BIG GOVERNMENT WORKING FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL, NOT JUST “AMERICANS”
    And there are hundreds, thousands, of such developments which will make the post-fossil fuel era much different than the pre-fossil fuel era.

  84. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 2:54 pm #

    Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
    Should be:
    The woman who gave me the tour was concerned that funds just to maintain the system as it is might be hard to come by in the years ahead.
    Since I’m correcting I’ll also add:
    A lot of our countries treatment plants were built in the 60’s and 70’s using fund matching Federal programs which no longer exist. Many cities could not afford to build the treatment plants they have now if they did not already have them.
    An empire in decline with naked kings.

  85. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 2:57 pm #

    CORRECTION
    That is true today. That will not be true in the future, thanks to the research at OSU.
    My apologies to OSU Beavers!

  86. xhalor September 10, 2012 at 2:59 pm #

    “Just keep eating and shitting and it will all work out in time.”
    Isn’t that what the bacteria in the Petri dish say to each other before they overbreed and die?
    I hope that we continue to have enough fresh water to make all of these marvelous technologies worthwhile.

  87. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 3:01 pm #

    Let’s get specific, K-Dog. You say:
    To make wastewater produce net energy COMPLETE replacement of the sewer system would be required.
    You think I am algebra-challenged? You tell me how much money we are talking about for COMPLETE REPLACEMENT, and I will tell you where the money is. We have the money. We have the resources. What you do not have is political will, which is why you will lose in November.

  88. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 3:02 pm #

    No Asoka, you science is wrong. Dead wrong, your ignoring physical laws but I’m not going to argue that with you. In fact I’m going to give it to you.
    Infinite energy exists is poop water. Asoka is right and I’m wrong.
    Now Asoka where is the money going to come from to build the super poop converters? How long will it be before the energy recovered pays for the plant?
    But you will have to learn that algebra before you answer.
    Speaking of poop:
    ?: Obama (More of the same shit)
    ?: Romney (New shit that reeks)
    ?: K-Dog (No shit, just the straight poop.)

  89. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 3:10 pm #

    Isn’t that what the bacteria in the Petri dish say to each other before they overbreed and die?
    I image this behavioral trait of the bacteria is what scientists at OSU are counting on. Their over breeding, converted into electricity, means the entire treatment plant powers itself and produces excess electricity to produce more waste water treatment plants.
    Bacteria gone wild… Harnessed by science.

  90. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 3:11 pm #

    Now Asoka where is the money going to come from to build the super poop converters?
    ============
    I asked you to get specific. How much money do you need for COMPLETE REPLACEMENT?

  91. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 3:13 pm #

    What? I’m supposed to get upset by that. We all know I’m going down in November.
    I’m ahead of my time and the circumstances are not right for an honest politician to win.
    Duh.
    I shall however continue to raise awareness and if my billion to one lotto ticket pays off I’m going to save the fucking world. You can even come to the inauguration.
    So the campaign stays on even though I really don’t want to work twelve hours a day seven days a week for four years.
    I’d prefer napping but the world needs me.
    ?: K-Dog (The dog who can make a difference.)

  92. xhalor September 10, 2012 at 3:14 pm #

    Sounds good. How can we scale this thing up so that human overbreeding can be used to create electricity instead of Soylent Green?

  93. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 3:19 pm #

    Yeah Grey Goo
    Bacteria harnessed by science can destroy the world.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eumDcge_Ozo

  94. ozone September 10, 2012 at 3:22 pm #

    …And now, Chris Hedges. Wellsir, sounds as though he and JHK are seeing the same constraints in their examination of business-is-about-to-get-unusual:
    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/growth_is_the_problem_20120910/
    I’ll give their opinions more weight than techno-triumphalists. (This does not BENEFIT me in any way. It’s just what a practical-minded person is bound to eventually conclude.)
    Gots to run again; good luck!

  95. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 3:22 pm #

    You must learn to love the Goo, for it loves you.
    You shall become as one with the Goo. It is your destiny.

  96. xhalor September 10, 2012 at 3:25 pm #

    Well Goo dammit! A religion that I can get behind. Thanx, Dawg. And may Goo bless.

  97. Dangerous Christian September 10, 2012 at 3:32 pm #

    Another great post, JHK. Hope your recovery’s well.
    My fellow posters, do this little exercise. Stand up and get yourself to a full length mirror. Now look at your backside and note the “Kick Me” sign on your ass. You can thank your President-and his cronies-for that.
    For those who believe that the Big O or Mittens is going to bring America into some new Millenium, you probably in the power of Pixie Dust too.

  98. Grouchy Old Girl September 10, 2012 at 3:33 pm #

    OK Budiz, here’s a potential new crisis. It looks like Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper is poking Iran with a very sharp stick. With no real reason to do it he has thrown out Iranian ambassadors and closed their embassy on very short notice.
    As a Christian fundamentalist war monger, right wing moralist and suck-up to Israel, he’s no doubt having fun but why is he doing it? Could another power, like Israel or even forces in the USA, be egging him on? Some think he’s like a little lap dog, so eager for attention and affection he’ll do anything to win favour with his right wing icons like George Bush and Cheney.
    That’s my two cents worth, whaddya think BUDIZ?

  99. Dangerous Christian September 10, 2012 at 3:33 pm #

    Last sentence meant to say, “you probably believe in the power of Pixie Dust too.” Pardon the typo!

  100. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 3:34 pm #

    Thanks,
    Good read:
    This paragraph nails the biggest problem on the plate.

    Heinberg also highlights what he calls “the highly dysfunctional U.S. political system,” which is paralyzed and hostage to corporate power. It is unable to respond rationally to the crisis or solve “even the most trivial of problems.”

    No problems get solved before that one does.
    Obama by not going after wall street has made this very difficult but it is not impossible. We totally outnumber the idiots in charge and it is time to remind them.
    ?: K-Dog

  101. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 3:37 pm #

    Your very welcome.
    May the goo be with you.
    ?: K-Dog

  102. ront September 10, 2012 at 3:40 pm #

    I would agree to this point of view, K-Dog.
    The point I attempted to make was that one’s efforts of right action should be motivated by love or duty not upon an imagined outcome.

  103. Grouchy Old Girl September 10, 2012 at 3:40 pm #

    Yeah, my grandmother was born in England in 1888 and had to leave school at age twelve to go work in a hemp factory. Not what I would want for my twelve year old grand daughter.
    She gave up on England and came to Canada shortly after the Titanic sank. Must have really wanted to go, not sure I’d want to climb on a boat and cross the Atlantic after that went down.

  104. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 3:56 pm #

    Your quite right, I agree with your point.
    But years have gone by and no progress has been made by anyone on making society sustainable. The intent of the Limits to Growth movement is without fault but the methods used to solve it so far are inadequate. The dominant life form has become the corporation with vastly more power and resources than any individual dog or group of dogs has.
    Why do we have systemic change failure. We must answer that question first!!
    The reality party must take a new and fresh approach based on the scientific method to proceed successfully.

  105. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 4:26 pm #

    The reality party must take a new and fresh approach based on the scientific method to proceed successfully.
    ============
    And let’s draw upon Boolean Algebra in the process.
    Hint: We are going to use the OR logical operator more than the AND operator. It’s the cornucopian way. Solutions are multifaceted and synergistic. Nature points the way: nature is abundance.
    “Whatever a man has in superabundance is owed, of natural right, to the poor for their sustenance.”
    — Thomas Aquinas
    In other words, we are not going to sell energy for a profit, we are going to give it away freely. We are going to be as generous as nature.

  106. muddmike September 10, 2012 at 4:33 pm #

    jaiseli,
    “get GROUPED! – ya can’t operate/survive-to-thrive ALONE! Such is the blessing and the joy of learning to live TOGETHER again in an integral, multi-generational family environment – home-grown, home-schooled, Homeward-bound – withOUT FEAR!
    3) get GUNNED! – if/when the armed and desperate or roving gov’t-funded Fast-&-Furious gangs show up to take your “pearls” by intimidation or force, be prepared to offer – as a last resort – the swine, balls of hot lead instead. ”
    Unless you are WAY off the beaten track, like in the mountains with only one road in, which is in bad shape with a bridge out, trees down, or a landslide blocking it, you will need more than one family. My wild ass guesses would be 1,000 to 10,000 people if you are accessible. You also better have some heavy weaponry, because the gangs will have jerry-rigged armored vehicles. Think, Mad Max movies.
    Also, what will you Christians do when desperate but peaceful people come in desperation begging for food? What will you do to your neighbors?
    http://consortiumnews.com/2012/09/07/narrowing-love-thy-neighbor/

  107. coast watcher September 10, 2012 at 4:37 pm #

    The United States has been in a more or less continuous “state of emergency” under one Executive Order or another since World War II. Sadly, there’s nothing especially unusual about it. Congress was embarrassed back during the Watergate scandal to discover that the illegal acts Nixon committed had occurred under color of authority of a state of emergency EO signed in 1950 and later forgotten. The difference is that the current administration has used EO’s and various emergency declarations to circumvent Congressional inaction on a number of issues, including immigration.

  108. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 4:42 pm #

    You also better have some heavy weaponry, because the gangs will have jerry-rigged armored vehicles. Think, Mad Max movies.
    ==================
    Think RPGs with a range of 200 to 500 metres. (2 to 5 football fields)
    Any gang worth its salt is going to have RPGs.
    Good luck trying to fight violence with violence.
    Those who live by the sword die by the sword, a famous person once said.
    [sarcasm on]
    Of course, Jesus preached LOVE, and any fool knows what we need are GUNS!
    [sarcasm off]

  109. coast watcher September 10, 2012 at 4:42 pm #

    “Obama didn’t have the nerve to break up the banks, fearing the ensuing chaos would open wide the door for a right-wing coup, a la the Smedley Butler plot in the 1930s that gave us the House Un-American Activities Committee.”
    I would love to see the justification for this hyperbolic statement. At no time during the the financial crisis under Obama did I see any reference to the danger of a “right-wing coup.” There was the famous “tanks in the street” comment during the Bush administration to get the first bailout passed, but a coup? Really?

  110. coast watcher September 10, 2012 at 4:47 pm #

    “Russell Means is in Jail and John Corzine is free.”
    Love it. Where can I buy one?

  111. Buck Stud September 10, 2012 at 5:02 pm #

    Well K-Dog, I hate to refer you to the below link, but somebody has to do it…the opening lyrics say it all:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nOpJMQ3-VE

  112. xport September 10, 2012 at 5:02 pm #

    You are a beacon of optimism in the land of despair.
    If you bet on a horse race at least there will be a win, place and show at the end of the contest.
    The human race has found more ways to screw up than you can count on all the fingers in the world. The good news is that we find a way to make it right. We are repair specialists. In fact, it seems that we need to break it and then fix it. Will it get to the point that is is hopeless, FUBAR? Ask the rats and roaches, perhaps they will be the leaders of the future. Greedy, you bet. It may come down to kill or be killed, I hope not.

  113. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 5:13 pm #

    If it rained hard today, it’s reasonable to expect it to rain hard tomorrow.
    Those who believe that have probably already lost a lot of money, and are doubtless now engaged in assessing the investment merits of some highly attractive but unfortunately nonexistent Siberian gold mine.
    Past is not prologue.

  114. xport September 10, 2012 at 5:14 pm #

    What does it take to start a revolution in your mind?
    First you must be aware of the problem, then you must see a path to a solution. The problem that we face does not seem to have a solution. Then what?

  115. coast watcher September 10, 2012 at 5:23 pm #

    “Yeah, my grandmother was born in England in 1888 and had to leave school at age twelve to go work in a hemp factory. Not what I would want for my twelve year old grand daughter.”
    But it will likely be the fate of your twelve-year-old great-granddaughter. My mother, born in Liverpool in 1923, left school at the equivalent of our eighth grade to work in a shop to help support her family. Was it any wonder that so many English girls were willing to trade England for life in America as war brides? Mom thought she had died and gone to heaven when she arrived here in 1947. I still remember her packing boxes full of candy and other luxuries to send to her family back home.
    We (the collective we of this special and highly limited era) have enjoyed a brief period of untold prosperity built on the back of cheap hydrocarbons. In less than a century we went from ten-year-olds working 12-hour days, six days a week, in the woolen factories of New England to fourth-graders complaining because their teacher took away their iPhone so they couldn’t coordinate their piano lessons with their tennis coach. They’ll be back in the factories in less than a century.

  116. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 5:26 pm #

    You have a nice day too, thanks.

  117. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 5:33 pm #

    Unless the imagined outcome is a good outcome coming from a selfless point of view. The purpose of right action is to achieve right results after all. If duty or love results in action which results in pain and suffering that action would not be right.
    A few different facets on that diamond.

  118. jackieblue2u September 10, 2012 at 5:33 pm #

    I agree when you are in misery, and fighting to survive, it’s all you Can think about. It’s like being in Pain. All you want is to be out of pain.

  119. coast watcher September 10, 2012 at 5:33 pm #

    ” The antics of the ECB, the US Federal Reserve, and all the other central banks in conjuring ever more money-out-of-nothing draws us toward that event horizon where faith is lost in a faith-based money system. The only question really is whether wealth destruction (deleveraging, debt default) out-paces currency destruction (inflation).”
    Well said, JHK. I’ll disagree only by predicting that the deflationary collapse will begin with hyperinflation.
    BTW: There was something hideously ironic in reading those words next to an advertisement for Jim Cramer.

  120. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 5:36 pm #

    Actually Buck nobody had to do that.

  121. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 6:03 pm #

    But your for Jill Stein I’m confused. Now you are a dyed in the wool QuoBama supporter.
    Could it be you only do the Jill Stein thing to try and piss me off?
    Keep trying.

  122. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 6:03 pm #

    you’re

  123. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 6:04 pm #

    If it’s cloudy today, can I say it is a failure?
    If it’s rainy today, can I say it is a failure?
    If it’s sunny today, can I say it is a failure?
    No. It simply is what is happening today. The weather is simply a description of the weather.
    Zeitgeist Failure? Really?
    Zeitgeist is simply the existing spirit of the age. It is not a failure or success. It simply is.
    Reconsider last week’s REALITY PARTY, AND JOIN UP!
    In January 2009, just as Obama was taking office, JHK wrote:

    the “bail-out fatigue” being reported suggests that congress may just call a halt to money-shoveling. Where would that leave Mr. Obama’s urgent call for “stimulus?”

    Now, in retrospect, four years later we know. An economic collapse was averted. Obama got his stimulus. There was no 1929 and no repeat of the 1930s.
    JHK-0 Obama-1
    In January 2009, just as Obama was taking office, JHK wrote:

    Has Mr. Obama’s circle lost sight of the fact that we import more than two-thirds of the oil we use, even during the current price hiatus? Or have they forgotten how vulnerable this leaves us to the slightest geopolitical spasm in such stable oil-exporting nations as Nigeria, Mexico, Venezuela, Libya, Algeria, Columbia, Iran, and the Middle East states? And we’re going to rescue ourselves by driving cars?

    Now, in retrospect, four years later we know. Obama’s circle has averted any “geopolitical spasm” through skillful foreign policy and a good Secretary of State. And we are going to rescue ourselves with Obama-mandated 55 mpg cars.
    JHK-0 Obama-2
    In January 2009, just as Obama was taking office, JHK wrote:

    This portends, at least, much higher food prices at the end of the year, if not outright scarcities and shortages.

    Now, in retrospect, four years later we know.
    There were no “outright scarcities and shortages” … no empty store shelves during the past four years.
    JHK-0 Obama-3
    In January 2009, just as Obama was taking office, JHK wrote:

    the airlines are going to die the next time there is an uptick in oil prices, or a spot shortage of oil.

    Four years later, even though oil has gone up and down and up again, we still have airlines.
    JHK-0 Obama-4
    In January 2009, just as Obama was taking office, JHK wrote:

    politicians can’t bear the pain of watching mass foreclosures and the ruination of families.

    Now, in retrospect, four years later we know. Politicians can and did watch mass foreclosures, like they would give a shit.
    JHK-0 Obama-5
    In January 2009, just as Obama was taking office, JHK wrote:

    how long will the public’s fury remain constrained while they hear about Wall Street executives buying $80,000 area rugs? Surely there is a tipping point of collective distress that is not too far from where we’re at now.

    Now, in retrospect, four years later we know JHK was wrong. The public has restrained its fury.
    JHK-0 Obama-6
    In January 2009, just as Obama was taking office, JHK wrote:

    the entire banking system is fatally ill — leading directly to a super-major crisis of political economy in which the whole reeking, leaking system just crashes.

    Now, in retrospect, four years later we know JHK was wrong: No major system crash in the last four years.
    JHK-0 Obama-7
    In January 2009, just as Obama was taking office, JHK wrote:

    What I incessantly refer to as the Happy Motoring fiesta is drawing to a close as we have known it, whether we like it or not. Cars will be around for a while, of course, but as an increasingly elite activity.

    Now, in retrospect, four years later we know JHK was wrong: GM is stronger than ever, and the end of “Happy Motoring” is not in sight.
    JHK-0 Obama-8
    In January 2009, just as Obama was taking office, JHK wrote:

    Since the loss of so much vested “wealth” is implied by the crash of suburbia, this may be a source of revolutionary political violence moving deeper into the Obama administration.

    Now, in retrospect, four years later we know JHK was wrong: No “revolutionary political violence” … just the usual apathy.
    JHK-0 Obama-9
    In January 2009, just as Obama was taking office, JHK wrote:

    There’s been plenty of buzz in the blogosphere about the imminent failure of the US “social safety net,” including especially the social security program.

    Now, in retrospect, four years later we know JHK was wrong. Buzz is just that: buzz. The internet is not a reliable source of information, just noise. And the Social Security program is still going strong four years later.
    JHK-0 Obama-10
    In January 2009, just as Obama was taking office, JHK wrote:

    Euphoria is a legitimate part of the human condition, though we know it soon passes into the heavy lifting of real life.

    Ding. Ding. Ding. JHK got one half-right. Euphoria IS a legitimate part of the human condition. But he is wrong that euphoria has to fade, in the “heavy lifting of real life.”
    Europe’s Obama Euphoria Wanes
    JHK-1 Obama-10

  124. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 6:08 pm #

    Yes, but funny how a loaded gun pointed at people gets them to do what you want. Most likely they will behave themselves while the “other” tactics are employed.

  125. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 6:12 pm #

    Respecting our host are you?

  126. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 6:19 pm #

    Genuflecting again, I see.

  127. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 6:24 pm #

    “funny how a loaded gun pointed at people gets them to do what you want.”
    ==============
    That’s not what I see in the movies.
    Holding a gun on someone and saying: “Give me the combination to the safe” or “Tell me where the gold is hidden” the protagonist simply says: “Fuck you. Go ahead and pull the trigger. Then you will never get what you want. Idiot.” The gun is useless when a human being is determined and not afraid to die.

  128. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 6:29 pm #

    The sustainability problem is a symptom of a deeper problem, the Broken Political System Problem.
    This is the first problem the Reality Party must solve.
    First – We must define the problem with clarity.
    Then – We determine the root cause of the problem.
    Finally – With a clear understanding of the problem we explore the solution space and choose the solutions which can’t miss.

  129. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 6:32 pm #

    The sustainability problem is a symptom of a deeper problem, the Broken Political System Problem.
    This is the first problem the Reality Party must solve.
    First – We must define the problem with clarity.
    Then – We determine the root cause of the problem.
    Finally – With a clear understanding of the problem we explore the solution space and choose the solutions which can’t miss.

  130. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 6:33 pm #

    oops

  131. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 6:35 pm #

    First we should ask if sustainability is desirable.
    Maybe Gaia wants to rid the planet of the human cancer destroying her? Gaia has shaken herself five times before in mass extinction events, so maybe she’s getting ready for a sixth. Should we stop her? I say no. We should just live lovingly, and prepare ourselves to die.

  132. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 6:39 pm #

    As the Nazis found out when they went to clean out the Warsaw ghetto. The gun looses value when people loose all hope yes, but until then it works quite well.
    Try and not watch so many movies, it’s not good for you and gives a false sense of reality to the suggestible mind.
    I’m feeling a nap.
    ***
    K-Dog walks over to the fireplace stretches and then lies down.

  133. Buck Stud September 10, 2012 at 6:46 pm #

    Well,if you can incessantly bombard the board with your schtick – I get it already ; you’re running for Prez and you have the answers – doesn’t a poster have the right to object, gently.
    I mean what could be more gentle than music, and Jerry Garcia in particular? (Please feel free to return the boomerang).
    You’re obviously a smart person, but try a little subtlety now and then. You don’t always need to indicate the white of the light with a blazing sun color. Like the Sargent below, the color of the core shadow – purple in this instance – allows the white of the paper to read as warm light(yellow) in contrast to the complimentary color temperature of purple.
    And Sargent needed that white watercolor paper. If he would have filled it in with too much info – yellow sun color – he would have lowered the value (made it darker) and lost the impression of bright light.
    The watercolors of Sargent, now that is LOVE:
    http://api.ning.com/files/GmwMHGWyB866DIrYlno7iNXF*5UIhmcqgt7w*G1DRHZwJgz*-ERuiYoZNEvA6qpVr1DZ10fnqeKnlO3TSYzHtSJsEYRZ*cyx/Sargent_John_Singer_Villa_di_Marlia_Lucca.jpg

  134. Mike Golby September 10, 2012 at 6:52 pm #

    The sad reality is that, like cockroaches, all our species has done to ensure its continuance following a mass-extinction event of our making is spend a couple of millennia proliferating to a point where only our ubiquity gives us a shot at surviving our own stupidity.

  135. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 6:53 pm #

    With one eye open K-Dog sees the most recent abomination.
    If you were a real human being you’d side with the human race. I know about ‘Gaia’ and I can wax and wane poetically as well as George Carlin could about how the world doesn’t need us and we are an scourge an infection but it’s all to make a point and to try and wake people up in a humorous way. You however lack compassion and are serious about it.
    Sustainability is desirable and to claim otherwise is disingenuous unless you are mentally ill. Are you mentally ill Asoka? Do you really not care about the survival of humanity? Can I have my nap now?
    ?: K-Dog (An alternative choice, there is one.)

  136. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 7:05 pm #

    LOL
    Ok Buck your point is taken and I respect what you say. Before I take my nap I’ll contemplate that beautiful picture you just posted. The artist put a lot of perspective in it. Do you know how it’s done? Seriously on my screen it looks really deep.
    And yes my game is changing and my tolerance for bullshit is very low. But I know where I’m going and the final form won’t be a blazing sun but a warm and soothing glow.
    Now about that nap.

  137. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 7:19 pm #

    Sustainability is desirable…
    ====================
    And is an illusion. We have 120 years at most. The Bible tells me so. We are going to die.
    But, if you are interested in solutions:
    The performance of an over 10 times larger microbial fuel cell (MFC) with double cloth electrode assemblies (CEAs) during 63 days of continuous operation demonstrates that the excellent performance of CEA-MFCs can be further improved during scale-up.
    SOURCE:
    Improved performance of CEA microbial fuel cells with increased reactor size
    Yanzhen Fan , Sun-Kee Han and Hong Liu
    Energy Environ. Sci., 2012,5, 8273-8280
    DOI: 10.1039/C2EE21964F

  138. jaiseli September 10, 2012 at 7:20 pm #

    yo, “muddmike”
    your comment is noticed and ASV (accepted for value) with the following “clarifications” and amendments:
    1) “Think, Mad Max movies.”: creepy allusion in light of the fact that the wife and I watched all 3 just last night and, additionally, had not even given them a thought for many, many years! in fact, it was a casual inquiry from the wife concerning Mel Gibson and some movie name association about the word “warrior”, i.e. MM2: Road Warrior. This type of stuff happens with increasing frequency ever since I chose to restore the Covenant with AYEC.
    2) ” . . . you will need more than one family. My wild ass guesses would be 1,000 to 10,000 people if you are accessible.”: good point(s)
    a) concerning the word “family”, i opt for the “wellesian” cop-out. “family” meaning a group of closely-knit Men & womb-Men thriving in an environment of love, common understanding, collaboration, reciprocity etc. and, the more the merrier!
    3) “You also better have some heavy weaponry, because the gangs will have jerry-rigged armored vehicles.”: good point again – works both ways. problem being that the “fraud” gov’t, being the biggest and most lethal of all the gangs, whatever you improvise/have is no match. and if you’re not careful to meticulously disclose such, the gov’t’s thugs will raid/arrest/confiscate/kill on grounds of “suspected” insurrection/terrorism. trying to even defend against “gang 1” is a moot point. if it comes to that, we all be totally screwed and should have “voted with the feet” long before. many already have – welles being one – and an increasing number are making plans. i be traveling back to S.E. Asia again soon to look around.
    4) “Also, what will you Christians do when desperate but peaceful people come in desperation begging for food?”: pls more carefully review what i wrote – “ARMED and desperate”. also, i reject your “assumption/label”: “you Christians”.
    5) “What will you do to your neighbors?”: again, pls review what i wrote concerning such – “perhaps even worse, UNABLE/UNWILLING to SERVE others ready to repent and once again become productive contributors/collaborators.”
    a) point#1 – is it prudent to attempt to help others desperate and humbly seeking help if you/yours are NOT prepared yourselves?
    b) point#2 – is the individual desperately seeking help, ready and willing to take FULL responsibility for his/her life, i.e. seeking a hand up and NOT another hand-out? ready to exist in an environment of contribution and reciprocity?
    what about the millions with the mindset of “expecting” someone/something else to continue subsidizing their vegetable/weed-like existence?
    the old adage about “leading the horse to the water” comes to mind. if AYEC blesses me with surplus resource, my duty to SERVE the “Estate” (Time) provided by AYEC requires me to provide the water and access but not be a proxy for the drinking. some become desperate due to unavoidable events or selfish actions of others but more [will] become desperate due to their own irresponsibility and unwillingness to amend such. which group would you rather assist (first) in the event that you are blessed with additional capability/resource?
    c) point#3 – if you are unable, especially in light of the current national economic/financial/political environment – to achieve some sort of “extended family type” relationship with, at the very least, your immediate/surrounding neighbors, I would seriously consider relocating to a place where such can be achieved.
    Grace, “jaiseli”

  139. ASPO Article 1037 September 10, 2012 at 7:39 pm #

    US Post Offices situated in smaller communities as well as, largest metropolitan mega stations, offer best mechanism for maintaining continuity between Federal authority and the general population. Originally located in close connection with rail mains and thousands of branch rail lines, this was the heart of USA “Societal & Commercial Cohesion until Ike got on rubber tire mania with the Freeway Bill in Summer 1956. 1956 Suez Crisis: We were situated in the Middle East by then,increasing naval presence year by year. Finally, as he left office, remember poor Ike’s lamenting the “Military Industrial Complex” a few years later… NoDuh!
    US Post Offices re-linked to rehabbed dormant RR branch line feeders are in statutory compliance with US Congress Act of 1838, naming ALL RAILROADS as “Post Roads”. Tea Party constitutionalists are very well aware of the US Congress duties as written in Article I Section 8.
    There are certain portions of unfinished business in the territory occupied by Muslim Nations, having to do with the mission to eliminate Christians and Jews from their midst. After that little chore, the Qur’an continues instruction on converting all the remaining Infidel Peoples to Islamic rules and regulations… This is mentioned as a note to the Peak Oil discussion, a sidebar, if you like. George grant has a very comprehensive primer on the Middle East in his “The Blood Of The Moon” book. Transport in America is vulnerable-
    So remember your local Post Office in your Oil Interregnum planning list because e-mails and hand-helds stop working in EMP hitback. Guns are probably not as important as assuring ability to communicate. But on with solutions- Local railway links to the North American railway matrix are the most effective way to avoid famine in particular regions not enjoying adequate victuals for one reason or several. In 1922 or thereabouts, an historian & author Agnes Laut wrote a book “The Romance Of The Railway” with a very important underlying premise: America had not & should not EVER suffer famine as we now have a transportation and distribution tool capable of moving food and necessities of life wherever and whenever necessary.
    If cars and trucks are seen as vulnerable to an energy emergency, then by all means proceed with rebuild of dormant railway branch lines and abandoned secondary rail corridor. The rebuild program can extend from already scoped projects on the shelf, waiting for higher fuel costs impacts on trucking. American Short Line and Regional Railroad Association is natural source of rail savvy people and mapping needed to formulate railway enhancement on a national scale.
    There are occasional gems of hopeful technology, insights & circumspection on JHK’s blog, but not enough discipline we see on “The Oildrum, for example. By now we should be seeing editorial effort to cut down on the bickering, political fights and disrespectful comments. Let’s build up and edify one another; encouragement of postings on breakthroughs, local energy applications and products, mobility, health and value added employment methodologies suited to very pricey oil supply.
    The Russians avoided famine in the “Collective Farm” era largely due to kitchen gardens and some protein animals around the farm houses and bunkhouses. Important consideration as corporate/chemical farming takes a dive- This opens the door for serious look at city ordinances and “Homeowners Associations” completely lacking any knowledge of the time and place we find ourselves.

  140. asoka.. September 10, 2012 at 7:43 pm #

    a) point#1 – is it prudent to attempt to help others desperate and humbly seeking help if you/yours are NOT prepared yourselves?
    ================
    Yes, it is prudent. If you have two weeks of supply, before you die of starvation, it is better to share with others so that all might live for one week.
    You lose a week, but you’re going to die anyway, so help out the others and give them a week more to live. That’s the prudent, and the ethical, thing to do.
    Live, and Love, and Laugh … in the present moment. We don’t know if there will be a tomorrow. All we have is the present, the gift of the present.

  141. Nastarana September 10, 2012 at 7:53 pm #

    Thank you for the quote from the Angelic Doctor.
    VP hopeful Paul Ryan, in a lame attempt to convince fellow Catholics that he has ever even heard of any of the 12 doctors of the Catholic Church has now said that his favorite philosopher is not serial killer groupie Ayn Rand after all but Acquinas. As your citation shows, he has no idea what he is talking about.
    If Ryan has read any significant part of the Sumna Theologica, I will eat my ballot.

  142. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 8:47 pm #

    Eating your ballot would be putting it to good use if I can’t have it.

  143. xhalor September 10, 2012 at 9:15 pm #

    Anything is possible
    Andy Murray HAS WON A MAJOR!!!

  144. steve September 10, 2012 at 9:18 pm #

    Well, what can you say, Mr. Kuntsler, what can you say? You’ve nailed it on the head again. The zeitgeist, she is against us in this benighted land.
    I live in the South, which is indeed suffused with Christian fundamentalism – much of which is highly judgmental and narrowly defined. But, I would again suggest that you look at the world from their eyes – impoverished, scorned by the elites, shamed by their own ignorance, considered as pariahs in their own land. How do you expect them to follow the nuances of sophisticated (?)and jaded opinion, much less buy into the notion that they should bow to the suuperior wisdom of the world zeitgeist which sinks deeper and deeper into despair. Just consider for a moment that those who cling to family and God may actually fare better in your localized community of farm and main street. Now if we can just keep their hands off of guns and rope, but follow the techings of their Master, the Prince of Peace, we might actually be on to something. We all have something to learn, don’t we?

  145. k-dog September 10, 2012 at 9:55 pm #

    Somehow, someway a way must be found to let them know their survival depends on holding the elites to task.
    Their master, the prince of peace wants this.
    We must give them the ability to Detect Political Deception. They must learn that the elites are not as kind as they are.

  146. St. Roy September 10, 2012 at 9:59 pm #

    Jim:
    Your best post ever! At the 11th hour of the last election between our corrupt and dysfunctional two party system, you got it all right. I nominate you for President of the Transition Party, a name I believe will capture that support of 80% of the population. I propose Richard Heinberg as your VP – not the charisma that you have but a solid thinker. I also propose Nicole Foss as head of Treasury and the abolishment of the Federal Reserve.

  147. Workdove September 10, 2012 at 10:14 pm #

    Jim, I just finished reading ‘Too much magic’ and it didn’t disappoint. It’s been awhile since I could sit with a good book and just read all day, this was one such occasion yesterday on Sunday. Away from noise and electronic distractions, doing laundry and sitting on the bed reading your book yesterday was a nice relief from the rat race.
    At one point in the book you started talking about a presence in the universe that has ‘an affintity for beauty, math and truth’. I feel as such as well. I think you will benifit from the following link in your surgical recovery. (Worth watching all ten parts):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0ElkkYj4o0
    Good luck with your recovery and your new farm!

  148. Rock Trueblood September 10, 2012 at 10:45 pm #

    Russell Means is not in prison. So your bumper sticker is not such a wise idea.

  149. Rupert S. Lander September 10, 2012 at 10:57 pm #

    What does the forum make of this article? I mean, who the hell is “Bentek” anyway?
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/us-boom-in-oil-production-spells-peril-for-canadian-crude/article4535525/

  150. xiaoxiaos5 September 10, 2012 at 10:59 pm #

    Chicago Bears throwback jerseys

    The Chicago Bears are a professional American football group based mostly in Chicago Illinois. They’re members with the NFC North Division from the Nationwide Soccer Conference (NFC) in the Nationwide Soccer League (NFL). Originally named the Decatur Staleys, the club was founded through the A. E. Staley Provider of Decatur, Illinois in 1919 as being a business team. Then the group relocated to Chicago in 1921, where the club was renamed the Chicago Staleys. The team is lawfully and corporately registered as Chicago Bears Soccer Club, Integrated. The Bears have received 9 skilled American football league championships (8 NFL Championships and Super Bowl XX). The Bears possess the most enshrinees within the Pro Soccer Corridor of Fame, with 26 members. The Bears have also recorded additional frequent period and all round victories than any other NFL franchise. The franchise recorded its 700th get on December seven, 2008.

    Panthers Uniforms:

    In 1920 the group introduced uniforms containing brown and blue stripes. In the 1930s, the franchise’s uniform underwent considerable alterations. By 1933 the Bears donned all-orange jerseys with navy quantities and matching black helmets. In 1936, they modified this style into “an early version of psychedelia” by including 3 orange stripes to their helmets, altering the color of your jerseys from orange to white, complementing the brand new white jerseys with fourteen navy and orange alternating stripes about the sleeves, and introducing socks having a similar striped sample extending from ankle to knee. Due to lousy reaction in the fans plus the media, this style lasted only 1 period.

    By 1949, the group was sporting the acquainted navy blue shirts with white, rounded figures. In 1956, the team additional “TV numbers” for the sleeves. The Bears ‘C’ logo initial appeared to the helmets in 1962. The emblem changed from white to a white-bordered orange logo 11 many years later on, and it has remained unchanged at any time given that. The Bears added the initials GSH to the left sleeve in their jerseys in 1984 in memory of George Halas.

    Chicago Bears uniform: 1962-1972

    For decades, the team was known as the only NFL group to wear jersey numbers that weren’t the conventional block-style numbers (although through the 1971 season, the Bears road jerseys utilised the block-style figures). Although a handful of other NFL groups plus the Houston Oilers during their earlier AFL days experimented with rounder jersey figures, from the mid-1960s the Bears were the only real team still left to continue wearing rounded jersey figures. Denver Broncos, Baltimore Ravens, Philadelphia Eagles, and so on.) or within the situation on the Pittsburgh Steelers, match the jersey number font using the helmet figures even though or else leaving the jersey design on your own.

    Other variants for the Bears uniforms more than the many years incorporate the addition of navy blue trousers like a part of the road kit in 1984. During the 1994 season, the Bears – with most of the other NFL franchises – launched throwback uniforms to become worn within the honor of the NFL’s 75th anniversary. These uniforms with brown and blue stripes resemble the authentic Bears uniforms worn in the nineteen twenties. On October 7, 2002 the Bears wore navy blue trousers with their navy blue residence jerseys for the first time, and lost at home to Green Bay just before a national Monday Evening Soccer viewers. The Bears didn’t put on the all-blue combination once again until the 2006 common period finale against the Packers, also a reduction, on December 31.

    On November 13, 2005 and October 29, 2006 (both instances in video games versus the San Francisco 49ers), the Bears launched an orange alternate residence jersey. The orange swaps roles using the navy blue on this alternate jersey, because it gets the dominant color though the navy enhances. The orange jerseys had been worn again on October 19, 2008 at home in opposition to the Minnesota Vikings within a 48-41 victory.

    Chicago Bears Uniform Background (1920-2005)

    The Bears also wore the orange jerseys against the Detroit Lions on Oct 28, 2007 and most recently in a November one, 2009 match vs. the Cleveland Browns (Bears received 30-6). The Bears earlier wore orange jerseys as a part of a throwback uniform within a Thanksgiving Day recreation in the Dallas Cowboys in 2004. Their uniforms, especially for his or her classic look, have already been cited as 1 from the very best inside the league.

    Due to the fact 2005, the Bears have worn their alternate orange jerseys for one particular household game a season which is close to Halloween. For that 2005-07 property openers, the team wore the white jerseys using the navy blue pants. The team is 3-0 in these video games, beating the Lions in both 2005 and ’06, and beating the Chiefs in 2007.

    The Bears will honor the authentic Monsters of your Halfway throughout the 2010 season by sporting throwback uniforms of your era for chosen video games. The uniforms really are a nod for the 1940s once the Bears received four NFL titles with Corridor of Famers Danny Fortman, Sid Luckman, George McAfee,nfl kids jerseys, George Musso, Bronko Nagurski,cheap football boots, Joe Stydahar and Clyde “Bulldog” Turner.

  151. Mike Moskos September 10, 2012 at 11:57 pm #

    Here is the fix for the Citizens United decision: you simply prohibit people and corporations from donating to political campaigns where they do not reside. In the case of a corporation, they’d need to maintain a substantial physical presence in that voting district to donate in that district.
    Easy solution. It might have been Rand Paul who proposed it.
    I’d like to add a comment on last week’s CFN: Kunstler eviscerated the politicians’ claims that we could be “energy independent” in some amount of time. Actually, they are right. We can. BUT, they leave out the important second part. The only way we’ll be “energy independent” is if the price of oil rises so high that it stimulates thousand of entrepreneurs to hunt for American oil on fields where it was not economically feasible before. That and the demand destruction high price oil will have, and we’ll definitely be “energy independent”. It’ll be a wreck for our economy and our current lifestyles, but we’ll be “energy independent”. Maybe the politicians know what is coming and this is how they prepare us.

  152. John66 September 10, 2012 at 11:57 pm #

    Jim,
    You have shown us really well, time and time again, how everything fits together, but the all-important can at the bottom of the pyramid that needs to be pulled out in order for the whole thing to collapse, namely, the financial system, is still there, or at least APPEARS to still be there. This is what causes me to think that it’s not the financial system that has the real power. It’s the way that the financial system is being portrayed. What is the entity involved in presenting to us the realities of the financial system? The financial press.

  153. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 1:24 am #

    The coming change, according to Bentek, is startling: By 2016, the U.S. will surpass its 1970 oil production peak of 9.6 million barrels a day; by 2022, it will have leapt to 11.6 million barrels a day.

    Bentek
    Bentek is somebody blowing smoke up your ass.

  154. xport September 11, 2012 at 1:33 am #

    This forum is suffering from the absence of the Kunstler PodCast. It was the gentle Yin to James’ harsh Yang writing in this blog.
    I miss his warm sense of humor and joyous reparte and down home comfort with Duncan, his guests and all of us, by extension. Hopefully, he will find a way to continue with the podcast.
    In the meantime, just to rant a bit, let’s talk about the most fucked up state in the union. Yes, I mean New Jersey. The first problem is that Old Jersey was not as messed up as New Jersey. No refineries, swamps, Jersey Devils, Pine Barrens, Camden, Hoboken, Teaneck, or Port Authority, not to mention some screwy governors. But it is the garden state, and where else does the sunset get a standing ovation, but for Sunset Beach in Cape May? Which happens to be on the east coast, but the view is due west, over Delaware bay.
    You can bet your ass that Atlantic City has a great boardwalk, and you can do some great fishing and spend some time with mother nature along the coast, but now you need to buy a permit to throw a line into the ocean.
    There are some great things about N.J. The Appalachian trail, Water Gap, palisades, Wildwood, Avalon, and do not forget the New York Giants, who play in the Meadowlands.
    Yes sir, can’t beat Jersey for the highest property tax in the nation, and corporate corruption was invented in this very state.
    It is funny how we can have a love/hate relationship with a place.

  155. Jimmy Drinkwater September 11, 2012 at 1:59 am #

    replied to comment from:
    blah blah blah, etc etc etc
    lmao

  156. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 2:01 am #

    The two doddering parties want to promise more of what we’ve already got in a world that doesn’t have anymore of that to give. The result is likely to be that we will go through all the noisy motions of the 2012 elections only to find ourselves plunged into a political crisis possibly worse than the Civil War.

    And Millard Fillmore disappears into history.

  157. bproman September 11, 2012 at 2:05 am #

    Hut hut hut, hike. Pass the chips.
    Forget the old playbook.
    Looks like a longshot for a comeback.

  158. kulturcritic* September 11, 2012 at 3:34 am #

    Ralph – Come on; how could you suggest that no one knew the scope of the mess. They have known for a long time, and simply decided to continu to play roulette. It is a game, and he who finishes with the most toys before it all explodes wins!!

  159. sdcll82og September 11, 2012 at 3:51 am #

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  160. xhalor September 11, 2012 at 5:44 am #

    “…be prepared to offer – as a last resort – the swine, balls of hot lead instead.”
    I would not presume to know you, but, I must ask. Have you ever shot a human being before?
    When I’m out drinking in public I like to eavesdrop in on other men’s (and women’s!) descriptions of their altercations. Wow. Some of y’all are pretty violent. Using their accounts, I try to picture the physical condition of the vanquished. I’m talkin’ compound fractures; deep, blood-gushing lacerations; choking on their blood and crying at the same time…I think you get the picture. And that’s what this post is all about. The Picture. BEFORE you “strap up”, you better be sure that you have the stomach for it. I must say, I’ve seen combat vets become unhinged over less than some of things that I’ve heard the general public describe.
    There are already a lot of emotionally disturbed people out there. There are only going to be more. You may THINK that they are being reasonable with you…and then the gun unexpectedly comes out.
    There are professional hunters that offer instruction if you’ve got the money. If you’ve never engaged in this kind of thing before, it’s about as gentle a way that there is to be introduced to the gore.

  161. francesco pulvirenti September 11, 2012 at 6:04 am #

    not much different here in italy, where workers
    demondtrate to keep alive a useless aluminium factory (there are enough beer cans arund to supply alu to italy for centirues), or coal miners who want to keep diggin coal for ever. both political parties,
    left (hahaah that’s a joke) and right (neofascist is more like it)promise to keep production, keep jobs, keep highway projects, in a world keep the sinking boat afloat for at least another 4 years.
    They say the orchestra on board kept playing more the 2 hours after the iceberg first hit the side of the titanic…… so lets dance one more tango.

  162. rocco September 11, 2012 at 6:24 am #

    A great article JHK!
    Peak Oil and climate change have taken on the appearance and characteristics of partisan opinion,rather than scientific and once entangled with the apocalytic storyline, we dout and debate the science behind both” A great book,”The Last myth: What the rise of Apocalyptic thinking tells us about America” Matthew Barrett, also JHK’s new book Too Much MAGIC is a incredible read. read both books to understand our changing world.

  163. ozone September 11, 2012 at 7:49 am #

    Hey folks,
    Just for your own edification, scroll down to the reader’s comments at the bottom of this copy of the current JHK screed.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32410.htm#idc-cover
    The zeitgeist that wafts from the clusterfuckian reactions is a source of endless amusement and howling wackiness. (Who knows how much stranger it’s going to get? Surely, a lot; but what flavor?)

  164. ozone September 11, 2012 at 7:50 am #

    Oops.
    Not specific enough:
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32410.htm
    Llllllllllater then…

  165. A Change in the Weather September 11, 2012 at 9:16 am #

    Coast Watcher,
    Well, we all get carried away once in a while. My statement about a coup was hyperbolic and speculative. But the point was that the moment of the credit crisis was volatile and dangerous, and there have been reactions like the Smedley Butler incident in this country. There’s a flank of the right wing that is very determined to regain power on its own terms. The collapse of our entire financial system–the disappearance of hundreds of billions of dollars–would have provoked who knows what kind of reaction.
    The government should conduct an orderly break-up the TBTF banks for the health of the nation. But if you’re going to attempt that, you’d better succeed. I think Obama and others correctly judged that the risk at that moment was too high, and they weren’t prepared for the level of resistance such a move would have provoked. Maybe after the election, if Obama wins by a substantial enough margin, he could institute that reform.
    Not that I’m holding my breath. Maybe he’s simply in the hands of Wall Street, like Jim says.
    In any case, he’s far less dangerous to the future of the country than his rival, who will clearly be beholden to the petrocapitalist authoritarian right.

  166. asoka.. September 11, 2012 at 9:56 am #

    Maybe he’s simply in the hands of Wall Street, like Jim says.
    ==============
    Then why is Wall Street money going to Romney?
    If Obama is “in the hands of Wall Street,” it is because they are trying to strangle him.
    Follow the money. Vote accordingly.
    A vote for Romney is a vote for Wall Street.

  167. coast watcher September 11, 2012 at 10:04 am #

    “The government should conduct an orderly break-up the TBTF banks for the health of the nation. But if you’re going to attempt that, you’d better succeed. I think Obama and others correctly judged that the risk at that moment was too high, and they weren’t prepared for the level of resistance such a move would have provoked. Maybe after the election, if Obama wins by a substantial enough margin, he could institute that reform.”
    The banks/financial institutions should have been seized under the FDIC as insolvent, as so many small banks have been in the past four years, broken up, and sold off piecemeal, just like other insolvent financial entities are. There were/are plenty of mid-sized regional banks more than able and willing to step into their places. But “too big to fail” also meant big enough to buy political protection and Fed intervention.
    “Not that I’m holding my breath. Maybe he’s simply in the hands of Wall Street, like Jim says.”
    Yes.

  168. Nastarana September 11, 2012 at 10:30 am #

    Dear Mayberry,

  169. Nastarana September 11, 2012 at 10:44 am #

    There are reasons why the petit bourgeosie, AKA the Tea Party, opposes the ACA. Don’t forget that class solidarity trumps individual self interest every time, as Bill Clinton found out when he went to the auto execs with a deal he thought they couldn’t refuse, that would have reduced their health ins. expenses and made their product that much more competitive world wide, and they listened to their buddies in the ins. industry instead.
    You do remember Harry and Louise, right? Those cute adds had a subliminal message, which was if we have a national health care system, then “nice folks” like you will be sitting in clinic offices next to, gasp!, the great unwashed medicare population. Access to health care is a MAJOR status symbol in this USA, and the Tea Partiers are quite prepared to pay extra to secure their own access while denying same to others.

  170. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 10:54 am #

                                                                  ❒❒❒❒❒❒
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                        &nbsp
    ;                                         ❒❒❒❒❒❒
                                                                  ❒❒❒❒❒❒
                                                                  Remember Building 6

    To some men the facilitation of evil does not carry the stain of the actual orchestration of it. They are wrong but the facilitation of evil can certainly go more easily unnoticed than the actual commission of it.

  171. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 10:55 am #

    Oops, Should be:
    it’s Remember Building 7

  172. rippedthunder September 11, 2012 at 11:02 am #

    Hey X, keep it up with the slide, I use steel but Duane was fond of a Coricidin bottle!. That being said, I have seen the gore and I don’t doubt that I could “Pull the trigger” on a piece of slime threatening my family or myself. Not a nice thing but I really don’t think I would lose any sleep over it. A piece of shit is a piece of shit, Call it what you want but it is still a piece of shit. I don’t like to step in shit! Sorry K-Dog.

  173. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 11:06 am #

    No problem. I don’t like walking in the park after dark and stepping in another dogs poop. It sucks.

  174. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 11:20 am #

    Damn,
    Howling wackiness for sure and almost endlessly amusing but that comment concerning Palestine and the “Long Emergency” kind of pissed me off. I read the “Long Emergency” and don’t remember anything about Palestine in it.
    Am I having a brain fart or does somebody not have a mama and is making shit up? I don’t have my own copy of the “Long Emergency” anymore so I can’t check the ‘Alan’ character’s veracity.
    I’d like to make a doggie biscuit out of that cat chow character.
    Grrrrrrr

  175. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 11:36 am #

    “A vote for Romney is a vote for Wall Street.”
    Your right, it is for sure. Wall Street has chips on black and red. That’s the cost of doing business and they are getting a bargain as usual.
    Chips on black and red but they can’t cover the Green Zone and if the roulette ball lands on ’00’ the party is over from them and they have to start taking care of their dogs better because they Glass–Steagall Act is coming back.
    ?: Obama (A vote for Wall Street.)
    ?: Romney (A vote for Wall Street.)
    ?: K-Dog (A vote for Main Street.)

  176. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 11:37 am #

    oops – the Glass–Steagall Act is coming back.

  177. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 11:52 am #

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Defense Secretary Leon Panetta is suggesting that a retired Navy SEAL be punished for writing a book giving an insider’s account of the U.S. raid that killed terrorist leader Osama bin Laden.

    I think we have to take steps to make clear to him and to the American people that we’re not going to accept this kind of behavior.

    And what kind of behavior would that be? Telling the truth?

  178. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 11:54 am #

    I forgot my link

  179. muddmike September 11, 2012 at 12:12 pm #

    Here are the results of one questions from a poll of Ohio voters.
    Who do you think deserves more credit for the
    killing of Osama bin Laden: Barack Obama or
    Mitt Romney?
    Barack Obama….. 63%
    Mitt Romney……. 6%
    Not sure …….. 31%
    Here is the URL
    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_OH_9912.pdf

  180. dclacy September 11, 2012 at 1:10 pm #

    “…when agri-biz style farming fails from scarcities of cheap oil, phosphates, and capital for revolving loans.”
    Agri-biz style farming will fail when there’s no more WATER for irrigation, thanks to the aquifers (which are ice-age water) being depleted and constant drought. A scarcity of a consistent water source from global warming having melted glaciers will cause giant rivers such as, the Ganges and Yangtze to become seasonal in turn causing global food insecurity as huge populations of people who depend on these river systems look to other giant food producers for sustenance. Grains are a major support of large populations, especially for people who live in areas where farming is difficult (like large urban centers and deserts). Of course this brings up other issues such as grains for livestock and ethanol before people.
    Which will run out first; oil or fresh water?

  181. Nastarana September 11, 2012 at 1:12 pm #

    Heard it all before. Lots of partying, willing sexual partners of whatever persuasion, and free food and laundry provided by a couple of earth mothers.
    Consider the religious foundations of the Dark Ages. The monks established themselves in inaccessible spots, like Monte Cassino, and provided for their food and clothing by their own work. They had two organizing principles, preservation of the learning of the past, practical, as well as literature, history and philosophy, and, production for USE NOT PROFIT.
    Production for use means that you make something, a pair of shoes for example, just as well as ever you can, so that you don’t have to make it all over again next year.
    Now, I doubt celibacy will required for new sustainable communities, which I think will be organized around privately maintaned libraries and schools, as well as food and fiber production, but neither will party hardy promiscous types of either gender be welcomed. Promiscuity is like weapons not intended for hunting; it costs too damn much.

  182. trippticket September 11, 2012 at 1:19 pm #

    Fascinating comment just above!
    New entry this week at Small Batch about business opportunities in a contractionary world. Check it out if you have a minute…
    http://www.smallbatchgarden.blogspot.com/2012/09/business-in-contractionary-times.html
    Cheers, CFers.
    Tripp

  183. ak September 11, 2012 at 1:50 pm #

    Here’s a quote from something I’ve read several years ago. I’ll omit the author for now — I’m sure someone will recognize it, but please don’t print the name right below this. Thx.

    THE NEW LUDDITE CHALLENGE
    First let us postulate that the computer scientists succeed in developing intelligent machines that can do all things better than human beings can do them. In that case presumably all work will be done by vast, highly organized systems of machines and no human effort will be necessary. Either of two cases might occur. The machines might be permitted to make all of their own decisions without human oversight, or else human control over the machines might be retained.
    If the machines are permitted to make all their own decisions, we can’t make any conjectures as to the results, because it is impossible to guess how such machines might behave. We only point out that the fate of the human race would be at the mercy of the machines. It might be argued that the human race would never be foolish enough to hand over all the power to the machines. But we are suggesting neither that the human race would voluntarily turn power over to the machines nor that the machines would willfully seize power. What we do suggest is that the human race might easily permit itself to drift into a position of such dependence on the machines that it would have no practical choice but to accept all of the machines’ decisions. As society and the problems that face it become more and more complex and machines become more and more intelligent, people will let machines make more of their decisions for them, simply because machine-made decisions will bring better results than man-made ones. Eventually a stage may be reached at which the decisions necessary to keep the system running will be so complex that human beings will be incapable of making them intelligently. At that stage the machines will be in effective control. People won’t be able to just turn the machines off, because they will be so dependent on them that turning them off would amount to suicide.
    On the other hand it is possible that human control over the machines may be retained. In that case the average man may have control over certain private machines of his own, such as his car or his personal computer, but control over large systems of machines will be in the hands of a tiny elite – just as it is today, but with two differences. Due to improved techniques the elite will have greater control over the masses; and because human work will no longer be necessary the masses will be superfluous, a useless burden on the system. If the elite is ruthless they may simply decide to exterminate the mass of humanity. If they are humane they may use propaganda or other psychological or biological techniques to reduce the birth rate until the mass of humanity becomes extinct, leaving the world to the elite. Or, if the elite consists of soft-hearted liberals, they may decide to play the role of good shepherds to the rest of the human race. They will see to it that everyone’s physical needs are satisfied, that all children are raised under psychologically hygienic conditions, that everyone has a wholesome hobby to keep him busy, and that anyone who may become dissatisfied undergoes “treatment” to cure his “problem.” Of course, life will be so purposeless that people will have to be biologically or psychologically engineered either to remove their need for the power process or make them “sublimate” their drive for power into some harmless hobby. These engineered human beings may be happy in such a society, but they will most certainly not be free. They will have been reduced to the status of domestic animals.

    Who wrote this? (Remember to wait a few posts)

  184. Nastarana September 11, 2012 at 1:53 pm #

    Here is what happened. I can’t prove it, but if you know better, please do share.
    It is known and has been reported that a delegation which included later Treasury Secretary Rubin called upon then President-elect Clinton, and explained how the world works, or how they inteded that it should work. Clinton was told that nation-states are obselete, that corporations, or possibly finance capitalism rules, that he had no choice but do to their bidding, and that he and spouse could expect to be well rewarded. The rest we know, to our cost. It is my personal belief that Bill held out for separate two presidential terms for Hillary. That might partly explain the shocking incompetence of her presidential campaign, that and the fact that she is a fundamentally incompetent person.
    Whatever one might think of Mr. and Mrs. Obama, I doubt they are susceptible to bribery. When it had become apparent that then Senator Obama was likely going to win the 2008 election, sterner measures had to be employed to bring him into line. Outright theft of an election from the nation’s first African-American President would have provoked riots in every major American city, and might even have put some backbone into the liberal faction. The hit on the American economy, planned, I believe, for two to three years into a Hillary administration, so that the Bush family, who had cut their own deal with the financial hegemony, would not be blamed for it, was moved up to Sept. of 2008. If Mr. Obama is allowed to remain alive after leaving office, which I regard as doubtful, and if he is able to find secure refuge, possibly in Africa, as a guest of Mr. Mandela, we may eventually learn just what pressures and threats were brought to bear.
    We know what we will get from Romney, savage austerity designed to stifle any slightest impulse towards self reliance and independence among Americans, enforced by true belieiving cult warriors from the Mormon Church.
    I suspect that the WH vegetable garden, not to mention, home brew, has really ticked off some parts of the hegemony. All us little people are not supposed to imagine that we can do anything for ourselves. The Masters of the Universe themselves do not lose a thing if you or I refuse to buy processed food, for example, or shop at Goodwill instead of the mall, or barter with our neighbors, or walk not ride, but their servants do lose, and that the MOTUs cannot tolerate.

  185. ak September 11, 2012 at 2:11 pm #

    Formatting: I guess a blank line ends a <blockquote>; the whole thing was a quote…
    If you know, just let us know the first initial of the author for now.

  186. Rhino September 11, 2012 at 2:13 pm #

    I seem to remember that you had said in an earlier post that you had a problem with chronic pain. How goes it with that? Any solutions? Or am I thinking of someone else?

  187. xhalor September 11, 2012 at 2:16 pm #

    “And what kind of behavior would that be?”
    Maybe he’s bait.

  188. trippticket September 11, 2012 at 2:18 pm #

    Read: the more one can live without electrical (machine) interference, the better. I’ve often wondered if John Michael Greer’s postulated “ecotechnic” future didn’t kowtow too much already to the need for this sort of technology. I’m using it now, yes, by posting here, but at home I live without electricity at all. It’s really quite nice. And easier than you might think…

  189. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 2:21 pm #

    I won’t rain on your parade and name the author.
    However if readers find my link to the Church of the Grey Goo the The ‘New Luddite Challenge’ document is linked by the church.
    It is very easy to find.

  190. trippticket September 11, 2012 at 2:21 pm #

    JMG’s term “ecotechnic” of course means simpler technologies than internets and wifi…

  191. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 2:23 pm #

    Yes each paragraph needs there own

    tags.

  192. ak September 11, 2012 at 2:26 pm #

    Yep, I should’ve credited you for the find, K.
    Nice graphics.

  193. trippticket September 11, 2012 at 2:27 pm #

    “I doubt celibacy will [be] required for new sustainable communities, which I think will be organized around privately maintaned libraries and schools, as well as food and fiber production, but neither will party hardy promiscous types of either gender be welcomed.”
    At first, perhaps, but mass literacy is actually just another industrial conceit that will largely fall by the wayside a few generations from now when it stops serving a useful function…
    Other types of intelligence will then take over.
    See my recent post at:
    http://www.smallbatchgarden.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-preservation-of-knowledge.html

  194. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 2:28 pm #

    I’d like to know more about

    Production For Use

    Where did the term come from?
    Clarifying my post immediately above:
    Each paragraph needs there own pair of ‘blockquote’ tags.

  195. trippticket September 11, 2012 at 2:31 pm #

    Further clarifying…both posts used the term “there” when they meant “their”.
    Sorry, I didn’t see Qschtick’s handle anywhere nearby…

  196. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 2:33 pm #

    Well some clarification would be nice. When somebody says:
    ./>and to the American people that we’re not going to accept this kind of behavior.
    Seriously, if somebody is threatening to tie me to a 2″ x 6″ and dip me in my doggie dish till I pass out I want to know what not to do so it won’t happen.

  197. Rhino September 11, 2012 at 2:36 pm #

    For some of us of a certain age the 19th century isn’t that far out of living memory.
    My own clan started emigrating in the 1800s propelled like your grandmother by misery. Some landed in North America, some in South America. Some in other places. Most improved their lot. Some died in the conflagrations of the 20th Century.
    But we still have family in different countries in Europe. It became multi-national, multi-ethnic, multi-lingual, multi-racial, multi-religious. Multi-this, multi-that, scattered all over but connected by history and blood and marriage. And family culture for that matter. The suffering of our old people is still in the background of our thinking.
    Some of us still speak the original language but more and more the lingua franca is becoming English. A good thing or we’d have lost the ability to communicate. For that a tip of the hat to the Brits. And the Yanks too.

  198. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 2:39 pm #

    Thanks, A moment of phonetic extremity discombobulation I hope doesn’t happen again.

  199. ak September 11, 2012 at 2:41 pm #

    Trip, have you read Earth Abides, 1949, by G Stewart? Preservation of knowledge is a major topic in it.

  200. xhalor September 11, 2012 at 2:41 pm #

    I’m sure that he has an impressive price on his head. Consider the possibility that he is being used to draw some “true believers” out.

  201. trippticket September 11, 2012 at 2:42 pm #

    I haven’t, although it’s been on my to-read list for years…

  202. jaiseli September 11, 2012 at 2:43 pm #

    RE: “gross zeitgeist dysfunction”
    considering that now only 5-6 corporate entities peretty-much control the LDM (Lame Dream Media), perhaps a more realistic term would be:
    “gross zeitgeist disinformation/distraction”

  203. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 2:45 pm #

    and to the American people that we’re not going to accept this kind of behavior.

  204. xhalor September 11, 2012 at 2:47 pm #

    Monte Cassino. All that I could immediately recall about it was that it was a real problem for the Allies in WWII. So, I went to Wikipedia for an overview. In it’s long history, it has been sacked several times. Places like these will always need to be defended.
    Oh, good luck with that celibacy thing.

  205. trippticket September 11, 2012 at 2:47 pm #

    Vlad, or Radu, or whatever you call yourself now, you might like that last link I posted, too…
    It’s that classical argument about types of intelligence, refined through discussions with you.

  206. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 2:50 pm #

    Then it’s really good that I am an ordinary American dog because if I knew something he would have drawn me out.
    I know knothing, knothing !!!
    Sgt Schultz

  207. trippticket September 11, 2012 at 2:51 pm #

    “Oh, good luck with that celibacy thing.”
    And people think I’m crazy for living without eletricity…

  208. Jam47 September 11, 2012 at 3:08 pm #

    We owe a debt of gratitude to the monks of the Dark Ages for having helped preserve for posterity the writings of the Greeks and the Romans. We do. But the scriptorium monks preserved only what they approved of. What about the stuff that didn’t pass their deserves-to-be-preserved test? They probably either threw it away or destroyed it. That we have
    Catullus and Ovid is a miracle.
    And when the billions of books that sit now in our bookstores and our libraries come to be burned for warmth and for cooking, who’s going to discriminate between Hemingway and J K Rowling?

  209. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 3:08 pm #

    Since somebody likes it I’ll try one more time to get it right. Only one try I promise.
    ??????
    ??????
    ? ??????
    ??????
    ??????
    ??????
    ??????
    ??????
    ? ??????
    ??????
    ??????
    ??????
    ??????
    ??????
    ??????
    ??????
    ??????
    ??????
    ??????
    ??????
    ??????
    Remember Building 7
    To some men the facilitation of evil does not carry the stain of the actual orchestration of it. They are wrong but the facilitation of evil can certainly go more easily unnoticed than the actual commission of it.

  210. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 3:10 pm #

    That time all my leading spaces got knocked out but I promised I would not try and fix it.

  211. xhalor September 11, 2012 at 3:11 pm #

    Sooo…living without electricity changes hormonal balance in the human body? Not sure what you mean.

  212. xhalor September 11, 2012 at 3:14 pm #

    How about the kook who burned down the library at Alexandria because he wanted to be famous.

  213. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 3:38 pm #

    Discrimination will be based on B.T.U. content.

  214. orionoir September 11, 2012 at 3:39 pm #

    i vehemently disagree

  215. xhalor September 11, 2012 at 3:46 pm #

    Damn. My experiment is failing. I’ve been waiting for someone to declare that they know with Absolute Certainty what happened to the Library at Alexandria.
    Oh well. Back to Hogan’s Heroes.

  216. Rhino September 11, 2012 at 3:47 pm #

    False equivalencies?
    Spoken like a true one percenter. Blithely dismissive of other people’s misery. Vomitory. Intellectualized crap. As if hunger in the 1800s wasn’t hunger.
    Asshole, hunger is hunger regardless of the place or time.
    News flash: followership of Karl Marx had its genesis in the miseries of the 1800s.
    You probably missed this too but dozens South African black miners died recently in a charge against heavily armed police. So tell us asshole, why do you think the miners were striking? And why do you think they would have charged ranks of heavily armed cops?
    I’ll tell you asshole unless you’re a psychopath with zero empathy for other people it doesn’t take a whole lot of imagination to understand how living in a glorified shed, crapping in a stinking hole, drinking unsafe water, doing backbreaking work in dirty and dangerous conditions and never having enough food to go around can wear awfully damned thin regardless of relative “knowledge base”. Or regardless of where you live or in what century or what schooling you have.
    You say you’re black and elderly. Not in the slightest believable. NOBODY that I know who is black or even non-black but elderly would spout the garbage about poverty that you do. You said in a prior post that you spent a long time in South America living, laughing, crying and dancing with the poor. Or some such nonsense. NOBODY that I know who’s been in that situation or has seen it up close has ever talked like this, minimizing and romanticizing misery. You evidently have never suffered, have never seen poverty, have never listened to someone who has suffered. Or you wouldn’t be talking the shit that you talk.

  217. xhalor September 11, 2012 at 3:59 pm #

    “And people think I’m crazy for living without eletricity…”
    OK. This is a DUH moment for me.
    Crazy for living without sex.
    (…and I’m hoping like Hell that’s what you mean)

  218. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 4:03 pm #

    What happened to the great library of Alexandria?
    Apparently, the question of who burned the library at Alexandria is one which has no simple answer.

  219. xhalor September 11, 2012 at 4:14 pm #

    That was the experiment. We will probably never know. But I curious to see who would say that they did. See? You throw out some bait and see who comes a-sniffin’.

  220. asoka.. September 11, 2012 at 4:14 pm #

    Whatever.
    You lack basic respect with your name calling.
    Have a nice day, Rhino.

  221. Jam47 September 11, 2012 at 4:14 pm #

    When a continent-wide darkness descends on us because there’s no more electricity in the electrical grid, any number of inconveniences will begin. But there’s an upside. Those of us who suffer from insomnia that’s caused by electromagnetic sensitivity will at last get some relief.
    That ceiling fan above your bed that you think so charming? Your sleeplessness might have its cause right there. Or the cause might be the transformer on the electric pole outside your bedroom window. Or a wall clock, electric blanket, nearby cell tower, or even the wiring running through your house or apartment.
    Since the human nervous system is an electrochemical machine, it’s easy for outside-the-body electricity to throw it askew. If you suspect that your health has been damaged by the electromagnetic surround and you go to a doctor for help, you’re not likely to get any. You’ll find that your problem is outside his or her purview.
    What you need is to be or to become a multimillionaire. Then you can go and live (three months minimum) on a Pacific island or on a mountaintop in Crete. That might help. But the electromagnetic soup is worldwide, and getting thicker all the time, so neither of these moves can be guaranteed to effect a cure. The one certain solution is a long-term electricity shutdown.

  222. muddmike September 11, 2012 at 4:21 pm #

    Ayn Rand books go first. Atlas Shrugged will heat your house for a day. Make sure you have your chimney cleaned beforehand to let the stink out!

  223. xhalor September 11, 2012 at 4:24 pm #

    When I was working in the telecom biz, I would have to examine charts that showed radio frequency density at different elevations. People that live in big cities are bathing in it. Now throw in daily exposure to industrial contanminants.
    What insanity. Millions are living in an ongoing biological experiment.

  224. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 4:35 pm #

    The article I linked suggests the question actually does not have an answer.
    A properly qualified question would always have and answer even if we can’t ever know what it is. But if the library at Alexandria perished from a series of small fires and overall decay was caused by Alexandria being unable to maintain the infrastructure the question as stated really has no answer.
    From what I read they did not have copy machines then and scrolls had to be copied by hand as they wore out and decayed. This was expensive to do. The library at Alexandria may actually have been victim of a ‘Long Emergency’.
    Scribes have to eat, all dogs eat.
    The question may not have an answer, then again it may and somebody burned it down. Who can say?
    What I find interesting is our automatic predilection to assume that the question has an answer.

  225. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 4:40 pm #

    Try tinfoil underwear, that may help.
    .
    .
    .
    I am joking.

  226. muddmike September 11, 2012 at 4:41 pm #

    K-Dog,
    It helps, but oh the chaffing is miserable! ;>O

  227. muddmike September 11, 2012 at 4:42 pm #

    chafing

  228. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 4:45 pm #

    When did you ever care about respect?
    Yeah Rhino was mean to you but Asoka can rise above it and answer the questions can’t you.
    Are you trying dodge the answer or do you need an apology from Rhino first?

  229. Jam47 September 11, 2012 at 4:47 pm #

    I wasn’t aware that living miles away from power lines can affect one’s hormones. But I wouldn’t be surprised if such a connection in fact exists. After all, the master-gland is the hypothalamus-pituitary, which is at the base of the brain, and the brain is most certainly affected by non-brain electricity

  230. muddmike September 11, 2012 at 4:48 pm #

    I just looked up the definition of chaffing.
    chaff 2 (chf)
    v. chaffed, chaff·ing, chaffs
    v.tr.
    To make fun of in a good-natured way; tease.
    v.intr.
    To engage in playful teasing. See Synonyms at banter.
    n.
    Good-natured teasing; banter.
    So maybe chaffing WAS the correct word.

  231. asoka.. September 11, 2012 at 4:50 pm #

    I’d like an apology.
    Obviously I am unable to answer Rhino’s questions. He has more experience, a more multicultural family and he asks difficult questions. Then calls me names when I am unable to answer his questions, or when I provide answers he thinks are foolish. I have no more answers for Rhino. Providing answers to his questions only encourages his rude behavior.

  232. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 4:52 pm #

    Its good to remember that answering Asoka is always an optional activity.

  233. asoka.. September 11, 2012 at 4:57 pm #

    American Airlines’s pilots will be using the iPad, which is the only FAA-approved tablet as a replacement for paper-based reference manuals that weigh 35lbs. This will save AA an estimated $1.2M of fuel across all of its planes annually, based on current fuel prices.

    $1.2 million? To fly around flight reference manuals? And the Apple iPad will save American Airlines $1.2 million dollars? This is difficult for me to believe.

  234. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 4:57 pm #

    If the underwear chaffing is really bad a bit a Vaseline may help but if you make a tinfoil hat that covers the entire scalp area you may not need the underwear at all. And if your going to London Or France make sure they can’t see your underpants.

  235. asoka.. September 11, 2012 at 5:01 pm #

    Thank you for that clarification, K-Dog.
    I frequently ask people to scroll past my posts if my posts upset them. Don’t read them. Don’t respond to them. Especially don’t insult others. Life is too short.
    As my momma used to say: “If you ain’t got nothin’ nice to say, don’t say nothin’ at all”

  236. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 5:04 pm #

    Interesting, we agree on something. So who would make such an outlandish claim? Methinks the story probably originates with someone very pro-Apple.
    Where did you get the story Asoka? Is the source pro-Apple?

  237. asoka.. September 11, 2012 at 5:06 pm #

    What might be the effect of Moody’s cutting its “Aaa” rating on U.S. government debt, probably by one notch, if negotiations on the federal budget fail?
    I don’t recall anyone commenting on this possibility, but then maybe it will only come onto the radar after the election and before Jan. 2.

  238. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 5:06 pm #

    Some of us are not sure you had a momma. You too have made a clarification.

  239. asoka.. September 11, 2012 at 5:11 pm #

    Nobody loves me but my mother, and she could be jivin’ too
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvCccp3qMX8

  240. dale September 11, 2012 at 5:13 pm #

    Obama DID call for a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United. Just don’t expect state legislatures controlled by Republicans (i.e., the majority of them) to ratify it, if it ever gets to the states in the FIRST place!
    ————————-
    True, but it doesn’t really matter what the first vote will be. What matters is the idea is an excellent rallying point. Obama may have spoken about it, but that doesn’t mean much, you have to continue to support it, and bring the rest of the party along with you, for it to matter.
    When it comes to leadership, Obama just doesn’t have it.

  241. dale September 11, 2012 at 5:16 pm #

    I think some sort of “big deals” will happen in the US after the election. The reason I think this – is that as soon as Obama is re-elected there will be less prioritizing of institutional lying to the public about current events.
    ——————————-
    Good luck with that optimism, I really, really, doubt it. The most likely outcome will be Obama celebrating his victory by calling the Republicans up the next day and surrendering on every issue that matters.

  242. cbird1057 September 11, 2012 at 5:19 pm #

    Perhaps a bit off topic, but these images are nice additions to the Eyesore Of The Month: http://www.themorningnews.org/gallery/ghosts-of-shopping-past

  243. Jam47 September 11, 2012 at 5:21 pm #

    I think the Alexandria library was hit by TWO big fires. The first occurred when Julius Caesar was holed up with Cleopatra in her palace waiting for the legions to arrive. The second occurred when the Arabs overran Egypt in the seventh century. This is what my memory tells me, so I’m not betting my life on being right.

  244. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 5:28 pm #

    Pro-Technology but no more pro-Apple than pro-Android as far as I can see. That makes me want to take a new look at the claim.
    I’ll make a wild ass assumption that $10 dollars is the cost in fuel saved by not having to fly 35 pounds of manuals around per trip.
    $1.2 million / 10 = 120,000
    365 days per year 120,000 / 365 = 329 trips per day.
    Based on a savings of ten bucks per trip American Airlines makes 329 trips per day.
    This is probably in the ball park of how many trips American Airlines makes per day. My wild ass guess is also probably in the ball park.
    Based on my analysis I change my mind and say the article is making a correct claim. To be sure I’d get my numbers more accurate but I don’t know that establishing the claim beyond certainty does any good so i won’t do it.
    !!!!!!!
    Analysis has shown a counter-intuitive result to be true.
    The Reality Party pays attention to details.

  245. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 5:31 pm #

    And then the question has two answers.

  246. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 5:36 pm #

    That’s not off topic.

  247. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 5:44 pm #

    “there will be less prioritizing of institutional lying to the public about current events.”
    I’d like to know why you think this. Institutional pays and as long as that’s true there is no incentive for it to end. It can only get worse and feed on itself. Why would honesty assert itself if there is no social pressure for it to do so?
    Lies in general just lead to bigger ones. Only consequences and incentives can make them stop.

  248. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 5:46 pm #

    Should be Institutional lying pays and as long as that’s true there is no incentive for it to end.

  249. orionoir September 11, 2012 at 6:02 pm #

    most of what is popularly believed about low frequency electromagnetic resonance has been debunked, to my satisfaction, at least, but there are still some niggling results to which you can attend if you choose.
    my understanding is that “low frequency” denotes c 60 hertz (60hz,) eg, sixty cycles per second. which, strangely enough, is not too far from the rate at wh our hearts beat. i think some cellular processes are similar.
    essentially, if you can slowly nod your head to the cadence “for the woods are dark & deep” etc, you are resonating at 60hz.
    personally i take comfort in the idea of stochastic resonance, eg, the signal is clearest when in chaos. think of the most memorable game you listened to ask a child, back on am radio… did it not sound better?

  250. muddmike September 11, 2012 at 6:34 pm #

    Actually the heart beats at about 60 beats per MINUTE, not second. Also, if you nod your head at 60 hz, you will scramble your brains.

  251. orionoir September 11, 2012 at 6:37 pm #

    >
    how right you are

  252. Drew Keeling September 11, 2012 at 7:03 pm #

    Some voters support Obama BECAUSE he is black, some oppose him for the same reason. Certainly he had the “wishful-fulfillment fantasy” vote four years ago, but there was a more fundamental reason (which Jim oddly does not mention here) for Obama’s victory over McCain and Palin:
    Clusterfuck Nation Archive
    June 9, 2008
    By November, the Republicans will be viewed as the party that wrecked the nation
    July 14, 2008
    The Republican Party under George Bush will be known as the party that wrecked America (release 2.0).
    August 11
    … the upcoming political theater of presidential politics [is] a show that I’m inclined to call “The Party That Wrecked America.”
    August 25, 2008
    Republican party will be seen, with growing clarity, as the party that wrecked America.
    September 1, 2008
    …the Republicans are well on-track to being regarded as “the party that wrecked America.”
    September 15, 2008
    The Republicans must be clearly identified as, the party that wrecked America.
    September 22, 2008
    I am actually not kidding when I label the Republicans “the party that wrecked America”

  253. helen highwater September 11, 2012 at 8:00 pm #

    Kunstler has been quite outspoken in previous postings about 9/11 conspiracy theories. I wonder if he’s seen this…
    Fernando Imposimato, the President of the Italian Supreme Court, has raised the call for a criminal investigation of 9/11, comparing the terror attacks to the declassified “false flag” incidents carried out by the CIA in Italy under Operation Gladio.
    “The 9/11 attacks were a global state terror operation permitted by the administration of the USA, which had foreknowledge of the operation yet remained intentionally unresponsive in order to make war against Afghanistan and Iraq,” Imposimato declared in a letter published on Sunday by the Journal of 9/11 Studies.
    Read more: http://digitaljournal.com/article/332580#ixzz26CyWdzd2

  254. anti soak September 11, 2012 at 8:17 pm #

    Is that common Among college teachers, advocating book burning?

  255. muddmike September 11, 2012 at 8:23 pm #

    anti,
    Not advocating it, just providing a priority list if people are going to burn books.

  256. orionoir September 11, 2012 at 8:29 pm #

    indent[permitted by the administration of the USA, which had foreknowledge of the operation yet remained intentionally unresponsive]
    ———–
    conspiracies usually require competent actors. no-one has ever accused the bush administration of competence.
    grand list of conspiracies in the hx of the world:
    * brutus et al v julius caesar * julius roscencranz & ethel gilderstern v hamlet, prince of denmark * sacco v anzetti v theresa, mother v john, papa v vlad “ras” putin v katherine the great v anna kournikova v maria sharapova v irene stepinova, an actual world class hurdler, you can look it up

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  258. k-dog September 11, 2012 at 8:47 pm #

    It is sad that a good politician has become the one who is the least corrupt. The fact that we are forced to choose from the lesser of two evils is pathetic and perverse.
    But scare tactics make other alternatives hard to see.
    ?: Obama (The lesser evil)
    ?: Romney (The greater evil)
    ?: K-Dog (Not evil)

  259. asoka.. September 11, 2012 at 9:22 pm #

    And what kind of behavior would that be? Telling the truth?
    Is telling the truth permitted when you have signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement? Is telling the truth permitted when it violates the Espionage Act?
    Even if he gets off legally, he will still have to face the wrath of his fellow SEALs for breaking their code of silence. Those guys seriously believe in that national security hype.

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  261. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 12:10 am #

    A non-disclosure agreement cannot shield criminal activity. Not all rights can be signed away.
    Good catch Asoka. Amy dog’s first impulse is to assume the infallible state is right and the former seal must be wrong. He has been discharged right, or am I wrong on that? No doubt you brought up non-disclosure agreements so I could clarify this point. Thanks.

  262. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 12:11 am #

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  263. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 12:19 am #

    Art Keller is a “former case officer who conducted operations against nuclear proliferation and terrorism for the CIA’s National Clandestine Service.” On Forbes, Keller said it doesn’t matter why “Owen” wrote No Easy Day. “What does matter is his unquestioned violation of the secrecy agreements that everybody who does classified work for Uncle Sam signs.”
    There’s still talk of possibly prosecuting Owen. It’s been said that the book broke “the code of silence” and was written due to “bad blood” between the author and his former team. The book was seen as a betrayal and even the Navy SEAL Foundation made a statement about No Easy Day. The Pentagon may seize the book profits.
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    “How the hell can we run sensitive operations here that go after our enemies if people are allowed to [reveal sensitive information]?” Pannetta said. “When somebody talks about the particulars of how those operations are conducted, what that does is it tells our enemies essentially how we operate and what we do to go after them, and when you do that, you tip them off.”

  264. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 12:25 am #

    You linked the article, I found the actual letter. The following is an excerpt.

    The 9/11 attacks were a global state terror operation permitted by the administration of the USA, which had foreknowledge of the operation yet remained intentionally
    unresponsive in order to make war against Afghanistan and Iraq. To put it briefly, the
    9/11 events were an instance of the strategy of tension enacted by political and economic
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    Fernando Imposimato

  265. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 12:35 am #

    How the hell can we run sensitive operations here that go after our enemies if people are allowed to [reveal sensitive information]?” Pannetta said. “When somebody talks about the particulars of how those operations are conducted, what that does is it tells our enemies essentially how we operate and what we do to go after them, and when you do that, you tip them off.

    Comments by a man unfit to hold public office. An intellectual and moral zero. The particulars he speaks of are illegal acts.

  266. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 12:38 am #

    Duh. When you send trained killers to commit illegal acts, you better make sure they have signed non-disclosure agreements first to keep all their illegal acts hush hush. The SEAL guys are criminals and should be in prison, all of them.

  267. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 12:46 am #

    My point was you can’t use non-disclosure agreements to keep illegal acts hush hush. That is a legal contradiction. Non-disclosure agreements do however work well to intimidate people into cooperation and can be used to shield legal acts.
    What about the man who gave the order? Should he be in prison too?
    An order not to take a man alive if possible would be illegal.

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  269. xhalor September 12, 2012 at 2:29 am #

    For all you fuckers that actually have the audacity to make idiotic comments about the operation that killed that murderer Bin Laden…and doing it on September 11….
    KISS MY ASS

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  271. XXX5 September 12, 2012 at 2:53 am #

    Helen said:
    “The 9/11 attacks were a global state terror operation permitted by the administration of the USA, which had foreknowledge of the operation yet remained intentionally unresponsive in order to make war against Afghanistan and Iraq,” Imposimato declared in a letter published on Sunday by the Journal of 9/11 Studies.
    ************************************************************
    Now THIS is an example of non-conspiratorial, deep thinking by Mr. Imposimato. While “troofers” can speculate about whether we detonated WTC 7, there is no denying that there was a strange and lengthy delay in scrambling military jets and, for reasons no one has yet explained, SAC headquarters had all its attention focused WESTWARD. Why?
    I do not believe the “troofers” because they want us to follow a long chain of deductions where every link in the chain must be believed. I prefer EVIDENCE … like the timeline between knowledge of the hijackings and the beginnings of a military response.
    The two planes that hit the WTCs hit them 47 and 49 minutes, respectively after their takeoff. The plane that hit the Pentagon hit it 77 minutes after takeoff. That New York City is only five minutes flight time from the Fort Dix Army airbase in New Jersey … full of Mach 2 fighter jets … only adds to the mystery of the virtual NON-RESPONSE.
    I think Mr. Imposimato’s brazen supposition that 9/11 was ALLOWED to happen to allow the US to engage in permanent military operations in the Middle East has much more credibility from a purely mathematical and commonsensical point of view than the idea that we knocked the towers down. Why not let the terrorists do the dirty work so that we have a load of plausible reasons to enter the Middle East?
    Mr. Imposimato’s words have the ring of truth to them. Indeed, I’m not sure that any jets were even officially scrambled and/or got into the air before the WTC/Pentagon strikes occurred. That is VERY suspicious, indeed.
    E.

  272. xhalor September 12, 2012 at 3:15 am #

    Shooting down 757’s over Manhattan. Now there’s a good plan.

  273. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 3:52 am #

    Yes, exactly.
    Check this out.
    The humiliating failure of US National Security did not result in immediate demands from the President of the United States, from Congress, from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and from the media for an investigation of how such improbable total failure could have occurred. No one was held accountable for the greatest failure of national security in world history. Instead, the White House dragged its feet for a year resisting any investigation until the persistent demands from 9/11 families for accountability forced President George W. Bush to appoint a political commission, devoid of any experts, to hold a pretend investigation.
    Just a faux quizzical look when the reading ofMy Pet Goat was interrupted. Yes there was unease that year when no accountability was demanded. Total mass media control prevented the question from being asked much. We were all too trusting.

  274. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 4:08 am #

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    People looking out a hole in the massive building.
    From that to dust hours later in a manner which defies explanation (and sufficient energy inputs) until you see footage of explosive puffs from two different buildings. Hitting the towers was not dramatic enough to guarantee the cleared field they wanted to play in. The towers had to be rigged to explode which turned out to be a bit too much to hide.

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  280. Patrizia September 12, 2012 at 5:21 am #

    Today the last nail in the democracy´s coffin was put in Europe.
    The road is clear now.
    Europe and the dictatorship won.
    The moment the ECB and the ESM will own the European debt it will be easy to definitely grab the last shadow of nationality from the sovraign states.
    It will be enough to put on the market the bonds or bonos and the state will have two choices: obey or default.
    And default won´t be Argentina style, it will be much worse.
    So they will obey.
    Democracy is finished the moment they do not care anymore for whom people will vote.
    Whoever wins doesn´t matter, since he will have no power.
    All will be decided in Brussels, what you produce, what you consume, what you earn and the taxes you pay.
    The only possible road will be revolution.
    But also for that they will be very careful that the majority of the population NEVER arrives to the point of desperation.
    They will always prospect the light at the end of the tunnel.
    When? Tomorrow.
    And while our generation will be waiting fo a better future we will die.
    And the next generation won´t even know or care what the better future is, they will be too busy to struggle for the present.

  281. Patrizia September 12, 2012 at 6:55 am #

    “Economy is about what we actually do to stay alive: make things, trade things, grow things, run things.”
    That is Mr. Kunstler, that is what a normal human would expect they discuss when they meet in congress.
    How to restore the economy…
    But what do they discuss in Brussel?
    To make a new bank.
    Do we need a bank?
    Yes, they say, we need a bank to buy the treasuries of the states, so that the states can borrow more money to waste in things that have nothing to do with the economy.
    Mrs. Merkel goes to China to ask help…
    Do we need help from the Chinese?
    Don´t we have enough chinese merchandize, do we need to import more?
    Or do we need to produce it in Europe, without the help of the chinese?
    The solution of ALL european problems is Fiscal Compact, MES and a new central bank…but we still need to teach people to eat paper…because that will be the only food they will be able to produce in the near future…

  282. Zed Leppt In September 12, 2012 at 8:02 am #

    Now that we’ve paid our respects to the tragedy of the two plane-struck towers it’s time to perk up for the comedy of the two blame-chucking blowhards in the upcoming presidential debates. If you plan to watch this farce it might interest you to know who will be staging these events for your amusement and de-edification. A non-profit corporation called the Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD) was created at the behest of both political parties in 1988 so that they could control the debate format, decide which topics would be discussed, and restict third party candidates. The CPD is managed by two chairmen: Frank Fahrenkopf, former head of the RNC and now CEO of the American Gaming Association and Mike McCurry, former Bill Clinton spokesman and now a lobbyist employed by Public Strategies Washington Inc. whose client list coincidentally includes Bain Capital. The CPD is funded by private contributions from corporations and foundations – contributors include Anhauser-Busch, International Bottled Water Association, AT&T, and Philip Morris.
    Ross Perot is the only independent candidate that has been allowed by the CPD to participate in the debates due to Clinton’s insistence in 1992 (he believed Perot would take more votes from George Bush Sr). In 1996, Clinton again wanted Perot in the debates but Bob Dole feared it would cost him the race so he struck a deal with Clinton, allowing him to dictate the terms of the debates if, in return, he would insist on barring Perot. With promting by both parties, the CPD announced that Perot had no realistic chance of victory and would, therefore, be excluded even though he had qualified for $29 million in federal campaign funds. Taxpayers were funding a candidate they weren’t allowed to see or hear in the debates. In 2000 the CPD enacted a rule that third party candidates had to have a minimum of 15% popular support as measured by polling agencies to be allowed to participate despite the fact that the Federal Election Campaign Act only requires 5% support for a candidate to receive federal campaign funding.
    From 1976 to 1984 The League of Women Voters managed the presidential debates where the formats were open for the candidates to freely question each other and offer rebuttals. Now everything is prescripted, topics are narrowed, the moderators stick to dull, non-challenging questions, and the candidates rarely question each other. Even the so called town hall style debates require all questions to be pre-submitted in writing and vetted by the moderator. If the questioner deviates from the written text their microphone is immediately cut off.
    The Commission on Presidential Debates is also acting as a “technical advisor” to foreign nations, holding workshops and/or sending teams of technical advisors to help set up debates modeled on the American process. The CPD’s website states that this “advice has always been freely given and has resulted in a loose fraternity of national debate organizers with a deep and sustained interest in the democratic process.” Recent recipients of this fraternal favor were Burundi, Colombia, Cote d’Ivoire, Ghana, Jamaica, Lebanon, Nigeria, Peru, Uganda, Ukraine, and Romania. Welcome to our frat house boys and don’t worry about the hazing rituals for freshmen: your citizens can act as proxies for the humiliating abuse.
    Go democracy, go!
    *and stay gone*

  283. Zed Leppt In September 12, 2012 at 8:30 am #

    I forgot to mention one other third party candidate who managed to get a brief appearance in the Bush/Gore debate in 2000. The former governor of American Samoa, founder of the Baby Doc College of Offshore Medicine in Haiti, the little known “53rd hostage” in Iran, proprietor of Club Scud in Kuwait City, former captain of the Trump Princess, and conditionaly pardoned drug smuggler known to Doonesbury readers as Uncle Duke. Despite big-name backing by Lipton Tea and Absolut Vodka, he received 0% of the popular vote in 2000. Duke has recently reapplied himself to foreign service work for the government and presently states his occupation as “Viceroy-in-Waiting”. Here’s a snippet from that debate.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p2daPOubZE

  284. Zed Leppt In September 12, 2012 at 9:16 am #

    “…low frequency electromagnetic resonance has been debunked,…”
    I’ve read of some studies about the effects of infrasound on the human body. These are sounds below the hearing threshold that can be generated by mechanical equipment such as motors, fans, ventilation systems, etc.. The human eyeball resonates at around 18Hz which can cause headaches, uneasiness, and fuzzy apparitions to appear in the eyesight. Ghost hunters think this may explain why certain places have unusually high numbers of reported ghost sightings, a source of infresound nearby could be rattling people’s vision. Once the suggestion of haunting is in your mind, it’s easier to believe that fuzzy cloud in your vision is a spook. Now you’ve got the info you need for a pratical joke this Halloween. Just get a big subwoofer and signal generator. As for what government “spooks” are doing with this, God only knows.

  285. trippticket September 12, 2012 at 9:57 am #

    “When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”
    S. Holmes
    Again, well said, Dog…or Sherlock. The perfect demo of the towers by a “flimsy airliner” has never sat well with me. Something else happened, too. A word of caution, though, for anyone taking this tack: you can lose good friends over it. Trust me on this one…

  286. trippticket September 12, 2012 at 10:19 am #

    “When I was working in the telecom biz, I would have to examine charts that showed radio frequency density at different elevations. People that live in big cities are bathing in it. Now throw in daily exposure to industrial contanminants.
    What insanity. Millions are living in an ongoing biological experiment.”
    And most often they are the people that don’t see anything amiss in our “current” situation! Drives me crazy…yes, Atlanta is still building, but it’s too bad about all the empty hinterlands that used to support your urban asses. Better study up on Havana’s Special Period, geniuses.

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  288. pedal pusher September 12, 2012 at 10:25 am #

    It seems the professor from Heidelberg knew what she was talking about!

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  290. dale September 12, 2012 at 10:30 am #

    For all you fuckers that actually have the audacity to make idiotic comments about the operation that killed that murderer Bin Laden…and doing it on September 11….
    KISS MY ASS
    ——————————–
    I believe that you and I are usually on opposite sides of ideas, but on this one we are in complete agreement.

  291. budizwiser September 12, 2012 at 10:31 am #

    Thanks for the many comments – I agree that there is a considerable potential fir interested nations to act upon widely known strategies surrounding Iran’s supposed threat to the region. And I would guess that Israel, much like the US needs to “use up” some of its higher tech weaponry so as to facilitate economic benefits to the “chosen ones.”
    However, there is another issue coming, the so-called “debt cliff cuts” that will go into effect if the congress cannot find new measures.
    And these “new measures” may indeed be of real consequence to the 99%…… “headlines?”
    I will make a point of posting some headlines from the last weeks of November —- same bat time, same bat channel…..

  292. dale September 12, 2012 at 10:43 am #

    Again, well said, Dog…or Sherlock. The perfect demo of the towers by a “flimsy airliner” has never sat well with me.
    —————————-
    I usually try to avoid this ridiculous topic, but let me clarify something for you.
    Having spent several years involved in mid-rise construction, and being very familiar with the engineering involved, the collapse of the towers was no surprise to me. Modern high-rise buildings are “tensed” something like an expedition tent, in order to keep down weight, minimize expense, and reduce the need for space wasting interior columns. As a result they are highly vulnerable to the exterior walls being weakened in some way. That is why steel curtain wall buildings always have the exterior walls extensively fireproofed. Every engineering student knows this, and the Bin Laden family were builder/engineers.
    Now, you can believe whatever you want, and my experience is that people who believe in conspiracies have little use for the truth, but you may recall that during the initial attack, one of the networks had an engineer on with them, and he outlined how vulnerable the buildings were to collapse, before they fell.
    Carry on……

  293. dale September 12, 2012 at 10:49 am #

    I should say; “fervently believe in wild conspiracies without much evidence” because some times conspiracies are true, but this time its ridiculous bullshit.

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  295. orionoir September 12, 2012 at 11:06 am #

    [I’ve read of some studies about the effects of infrasound on the human body. These are sounds below the hearing threshold that can be generated by mechanical equipment such as motors, fans, ventilation systems, etc.. The human eyeball resonates at around 18Hz which can cause headaches, uneasiness, and fuzzy apparitions to appear in the eyesight.]
    ——
    these ideas fascinate me even though i do not understand the technical aspects.
    in a high school science class we once did the classic resonance of sound experiment, using a graduated cylinder with a crude trombone-like slider to find geometric points of resonance. guitars players of course do the same thing with harmonics.
    in everyday life i’m aware of resonant sounds, especially in old buildings. in the early days of personal computing the fcc rules were optional… sometimes we would get bizarre noise on the vhf television. etc — resonance, like the frog-eating aliens, is ubiquitous if subliminal.
    one other tantalizing tidbit — sunspots vis a vi telecom. ain’t that the wildest thing?

  296. Rhino September 12, 2012 at 11:07 am #

    Yeah asshole, when did you ever care about respect? Especially with your insulting entire races and nationalities and classes of people.
    You’re free and easy with disrespect being a self avowed racist yet you cry croc tears when your insults and disrespect get paid back with interest.
    While we’re on the topic we still have an outstanding and unresolved item: so tell us, this business about karma being a bitch and all, was it karma that got millions of black people enslaved and oppressed for hundreds of years? Was it karma that had blacks in Africa conquering and selling other blacks to slave traders? I don’t remember your answering that question or talking about karma being the operative force behind Amerindians losing two continents.
    But you’re free and easy with the karma shit when it applies to working class folks in the US aren’t you? It’s all about karma then isn’t it? All about the terrible misdeeds of those horrible people. Comeuppance time, right? Payback time, right? As if other races and nations and peoples all have the cleanest hands, are the purest innocence. Right? Pretty selective with the karma crap aren’t we? On the other hand as you said you have no more answers so tell you what, stop embarrassing yourself and shut your hole about karma.

  297. orionoir September 12, 2012 at 11:09 am #

    all this talk of “physics” misses the point somewhat. it was the fuel payload which took each tower down. that is to say, the towers could have been hit by giant balloons full of kerosene, the result would have been the same.

  298. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 11:14 am #

    How can 1500 scientists and engineers be wrong?
    How could perfect symmetrical collapse happen on three out of three towers when considerable experience and knowledge is required to bring down a building using controlled demolition techniques?
    I don’t want to be involved in conspiracy theories. I want to deal with reality and the scientific method is reveals very disturbing facts which can’t be ignored.
    A football field away from from the towers, building ‘7’ collapsed without even being hit by a ‘flimsy’ plane.
    My own experience was initially to ignore my lying eyes when I clearly was able to see explosive puffs on the towers causing them to pancake. When building 7 video revealed clear explosive puffs I could no longer doubt reality.
    Dale, you say:
    One of the networks had an engineer on with them, and he outlined how vulnerable the buildings were to collapse, before they fell.
    This suggest conspiracy to me and will to many other dogs. Doesn’t prove it, the mountain of other evidence does. But as the
    church lady from ‘Saturday Night Live’ used to say years ago. How Convenient.
    Reconstruction of the planes in abandoned hangers for root cause analysis was never done. That’s normal standard practice. The Twin towers were shipped to China before any investigation could be done.
    National standards were not followed in a conspiracy to hide evidence of a crime.
    Failure to do so was a criminal act.
    Building”>http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32279.htm”>Building seven is the smoking gun.
    Truth does not have to be hidden. Normal dogs love truth and seek it. Those who do not should never be allowed in government. Our common safety and the very continuation of civilization demands it.
    We must not allow sick puppies run the world.
    We must bring back the rule of law.

  299. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 11:17 am #

    I’ll fix the link.
    9/11 – Explosive Evidence – Experts Speak Out

  300. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 11:18 am #

    We must not allow sick puppies torun the world.

  301. dale September 12, 2012 at 11:20 am #

    K-Dog,
    You seem like a nice guy, but you would be a lot better off if you avoided crazy conspiracy websites and stuck with things you actually know something about.

  302. orionoir September 12, 2012 at 11:24 am #

    [There are very strong indicators that the world is actually getting better for the majority of humanity–fewer wars, lower crime rates, incredible advances in communication, a dramatic democratization of information that promises to catalyze social transformation on a global scale… and the list goes on. Not to mention the steady rise of integral consciousness all across the planet, bringing us ever-closer to a cultural “tipping point”, in much the same way we saw with rational modernism during the European Renaissance, and postmodern pluralism in the 1960’s.]
    this is the most hateful, damaging screed against common sense. i am not engaging in hyperbole when i say this. it is impossible to overstate the damage this kind of mentality has done to the world.

  303. dale September 12, 2012 at 11:33 am #

    As ridiculous as Asoka can often be, I think you are “engaging in hyperbole”.
    The world is a very complicated place, indicators move in several directions at once, and cherry picking the one’s that make your point, one way or the other, doesn’t prove much. Give up the idea you can figure out what’s going to happen next. It’s always what you don’t see coming that gets you…..;)

  304. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 11:33 am #

    I respectfully disagree.
    Orionoir, The problem with that is combustion of the fuel could not produce temperatures high enough to melt steel without significant large scale deformation and time.
    Giant balloons full of kerosene would also need giant balloons of full of liquid oxygen to melt steel.
    There was no natural progression of collapse to fit your balloon analogy.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    When not online K-Dog occasionally welds as a hobby and is a degreed engineer. While not an expert I do know a bit more that the average dog about melting steel.

  305. Rhino September 12, 2012 at 11:36 am #

    It is optional and most of the time I ignore him. Except when he screws reason, fairness and common sense.

  306. anti soak September 12, 2012 at 11:40 am #

    Well folks, ‘we’ got thru another anniversary of 911.
    I found this elsewhere [Taki? AWD?]. To me it was the main news of y’day.
    Once more Obongo apologizes and does his anti USA ‘thing’.
    “9/11/2012 will be remembered in history as the day a sitting U.S. President and his cronies apologized to Muslim terrorists after THEY attacked American property!
    Radical Muslims in Egypt attack the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, rip up a U.S. flag, and fly Al Qaeda flags.
    adical Muslims in Libya set fire to American consulate and shoot to death one American official. So what has been the Obama/Regime response to these attacks?
    “The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims – as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions.
    Today, the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States, Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others.”
    Remember his ‘response’ [cough] to the killings at Fort Hood [that are not classified as terrorism, let along Islamic terrorism, they are ‘workplace violence]?
    He said ‘ lets not rush to judgement’
    Lets not rush to f”king judgement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Obama is mu-slime.

  307. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 11:42 am #

    Red has spoken

  308. anti soak September 12, 2012 at 11:42 am #

    Karma is a term he uses to ‘twist the debates’
    [with those silly enough to engage him here].
    Karma in its original meaning, means ‘work’ or ‘action’, not suffering or evil.

  309. dale September 12, 2012 at 11:43 am #

    all this talk of “physics” misses the point somewhat. it was the fuel payload which took each tower down. that is to say, the towers could have been hit by giant balloons full of kerosene, the result would have been the same
    —————————
    My point exactly, the exterior frame was weakened by being super heated. Again, that’s why steel curtain wall building have the STEEL beams fireproofed. In spite of that, no one could plan for the kind of overheating that a plane load of jet fuel could produce.
    Always keep in mind the old adage; “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof” Careful reading of the 911 conspiracy mumbo jumbo reveals much casting of aspersions and little else.
    The Society of Civil Engineers issued a report precisely outlining how the buildings could fall in exactly the manner we witnessed with our own eyes.
    I point this out as someone who wasted many hours reading dozens of books on the JFK assassination, always looking for the conclusive proof. It finally came, after years of forensic recreation and fact checking of conspiracy claims. Oswald did it….end of story.

  310. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 11:46 am #

    Lets not get nasty now. You are drifting towards a personal attack.
    Lets be clear. I received my first engineering degree with honors. I weld own and use a combination lathe/ milling machine. I know the properties of metal and while not an expert my knowledge is sufficient to know that we were all played on 9/11. Physical laws do not change.
    I’m not involved in following conspiracy theories and believe in reality and rational analysis. I’m not alone in my conclusions. Many other dogs also believe in the scientific method and truth.

  311. dale September 12, 2012 at 11:50 am #

    Orionoir, The problem with that is combustion of the fuel could not produce temperatures high enough to melt steel without significant large scale deformation and time.
    ————————————
    melting is hardly the issue, deformation (and it wouldn’t take much , before other forces take over) from both the impact and the heat is no doubt what happened. Lastly, (and I do mean lastly) the floors of such building are attached to the walls with “clips”. Weakening these causing one floor to collapse, overloading the ones below, producing the cascading failure we all witnessed. It’s quite simple really.

  312. rippedthunder September 12, 2012 at 11:50 am #

    Hey K, I am not really into conspiracies but I do a bit of welding myself. One thing I can say for sure. If I lit -up one of my terriers farts it would bring down the house!!!! Those little mofo’s cast a wicked SBD when you least expect it!

  313. dale September 12, 2012 at 11:53 am #

    Lets not get nasty now. You are drifting towards a personal attack.
    ————————
    If you are the judge of truth you maintain, then show me where in my comments I personally attacked you.

  314. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 11:57 am #

    Exactly. And the actions could have been from previous lifetimes.

  315. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 12:00 pm #

    The floors of such building are attached to the walls with “clips”. Weakening these causing one floor to collapse, overloading the ones below.
    This is ridiculous. Calling building supports ‘clips’ is insulting to by brother civil engineers.
    Buildings are designed to hold many times their actual weight and there built this way to be safe and to withstand earthquake and airplane strike. They are not designed to fall down as you suggest. Building codes are written and enforced so buildings are safe and not accidents waiting to happen.

  316. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 12:01 pm #

    they’re

  317. rippedthunder September 12, 2012 at 12:07 pm #

    I think most people have a problem with the way the buildings collapsed. Almost as if they were professionally imploded, collapsing on there own footprint, especially No. 7. I don’t have a care either way. My town lost three,one who I knew since grade school and lived one block over. Not to mention the 343 brothers that we lost in the collapse.

  318. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 12:07 pm #

    You didn’t, but you were getting close.

  319. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 12:08 pm #

    Rhino, dale made a very good comment today:
    “The world is a very complicated place, indicators move in several directions at once … Give up the idea you can figure out what’s going to happen next.”
    I am taking dale’s advice. I am giving up.
    I may have been wrong in my remarks about karma.
    I apologize if I hurt your feelings.

  320. dale September 12, 2012 at 12:11 pm #

    This is ridiculous. Calling building supports ‘clips’ is insulting to by brother civil engineers.
    ———————————
    OK, “supports” if you prefer, doesn’t make any difference to the point.
    BTW….Building are designed to withstand “dead” and “live” loads, never “several times their actual weight”, which would be a waste of material and exactly what modern building are designed to avoid. You could’t even build skyscrapers in a place with soil conditions like Houston if they were designed to “hold several times their own weight”. You need to do a little reading on building design before you hold forth as an authority.
    Now, I’m done with this topic, promise.

  321. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 12:14 pm #

    My town lost three, one who I knew since grade school and lived one block over. Not to mention the 343 brothers that we lost in the collapse.

    And rippedthunder, they all deserve justice!! The people responsible for their deaths must be brought to justice. All of them.

  322. xhalor September 12, 2012 at 12:15 pm #

    “melting is hardly the issue, deformation
    (and it wouldn’t take much , before other forces take over) ”
    Thank you.

  323. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 12:19 pm #

    A rule of thumb I was told by one civil engineer is a ten to one.
    The civil engineer I am talking about was a PHD who was teaching a University class. I was in his class.

  324. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 12:20 pm #

    A minor correction — is ten to one.

  325. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 12:26 pm #

    The class was.
    “Strength of Materials”
    A core requirement for all engineers.

  326. xhalor September 12, 2012 at 12:38 pm #

    The iron workers agree. You designed ’em, me and my friends built ’em. We all knew that if the fuel burned off in an enclosed area long enough, deformation was going to happen. You could see the top of the building starting to twist above where the first plane struck. My friends and I thought that there was a possibility that it would break off and fall into the street. One of them that was familiar with how the WTC’s were designed said that it better break off soon, otherwise the building would collapse in on itself.

  327. muddmike September 12, 2012 at 12:40 pm #

    anti,
    PLEASE, just once try to get all the facts before shooting your keyboard off!.
    The “apologizing” was a comment from the embassy in Egypt BEFORE the attacks. Embassies typically do not check with the President on every statement released.
    Here is a link to Faux News, actually quoting what Obama DID SAY!
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/12/us-ambassador-to-libya-and-3-embassy-staff-members-reportedly-killed-in-libya/

  328. Nastarana September 12, 2012 at 12:45 pm #

    Thank you for that excellent reporting. In a just world, a major news org would be calling you.
    Let us see how this plays out. If I am right in my surmise about the soi-dissant ‘Justice’ Party candidate, that he is a stalking horse for Romeny, Romney, if he is still lagging in the polls, might well be demanding a rule suspension that would allow third party candidates to participate.

  329. Nastarana September 12, 2012 at 12:49 pm #

    I am sure future sustainable communities will include families and children.
    My point is that there are sound, practical reasons for traditional practices which control sexuality and that those reasons have nothing to do with Herr Freud. In short, catting around, playing the field, however you want to characterize it, is EXPENSIVE, for individuals and for communities. Going forward, I doubt we will be able to afford this kind of self-indulgence much longer.

  330. Nastarana September 12, 2012 at 12:54 pm #

    The phrase ‘production for use’ is one I came across recently. I don’t remember where, possibly on the website real economics.
    http://real-economics.blogspot.com/
    The phrase is fairly self explanatory, and its’ implications unwelcome to ideologues of left and right alike who both continue to believe in the fantsy of unlimited economic expansion till the end of time.

  331. dale September 12, 2012 at 1:00 pm #

    that several people doubt that conclusion of the society of civil engineers is hardly significant.
    I’m told there are thousands of people in the US who believe the Earth is flat and square, as indicated in the bible.
    Thousand more doubt we ever went to the moon.
    In both cases I’m sure engineers were included in those groups.
    People believe what they want, mostly on the basis of emotional factors. We are animals still.

  332. insufferable September 12, 2012 at 1:05 pm #

    Just a couple of brief comments on this weeks blog. I do agree with Kunstler many times this is one of them. We are living in a kinda world of lies. Both sides lie. Friends lie, Parents lie, Society lies, priests lie, teachers lie, sales people lie, doctors lie,media lies, lawyers lie, honest people lie and so on and so on. How could we possibly think that we could ever, ever have a government that is honest? Its virtually impossible.
    To all the blacks/democrats/libersl (whoever) think that Obama aka. Barry, is black is believing an outright lie. He is half white! That makes him a ZEBRA! He is not americas answer to the black guilt we so readily accept. What a lie! This country doesn’t suffer from any kind of guilt. As a collective group of people who said they wanted peace and a fair health care system, and a fair equal economic system….I say…it was all a LIE. We have the exact opposite. Only believe what you see. As long as we are losing jobs, housing, money, health, happiness and the american dream…..and you can really see it happening in your own world…..then we ARE LOSING JOBS, HOUSING, MONEY, HEALTH AND HAPPINESS. The people who died in those towers 11 years ago, who jumped or were burned to death, cannot experience the sadness and destruction of our country due to the proliferation of LIES. Unfortunately, even the tragedy of 911 seems to be a lie. Who knows.
    So if you want a world of truth and justice, then practice what you pretend you want from others. Be honest, kind and generous with your love and money and things will change. Be less egotistical and treat others they way YOU want to be treated, then things will change. Maybe someones child who lives a houshold that believes in a morally ordered world will grow up and create it for your descendents. If we have enough people who strive to keep honesty and integrety as their way of life (its going to take years now to accomplish) only then we could HOPE that this country will lift is head and be proud again. I don’t think the baby boom generation will be here for that though. Its too late for us.

  333. Rhino September 12, 2012 at 1:12 pm #

    I prefer EVIDENCE … XXX
    So do I. But conclusions drawn from evidence and common sense are way less fun than conspiracies.
    Never underestimate sloth and incompetence.

  334. xhalor September 12, 2012 at 1:23 pm #

    There have been many attempts to construct a “Perfect Society”. Unintended pregnancies still happened. How would you deal with them in your Perfect Society?

  335. Rhino September 12, 2012 at 1:46 pm #

    In short, catting around, playing the field, however you want to characterize it, is EXPENSIVE, for individuals and for communities. Going forward, I doubt we will be able to afford this kind of self-indulgence much longer. – Nastarana
    I think you’re right. Traditional societies ie those that depend on un-mechanized agriculture don’t have the food production to support such fun activities. There’s not much surplus. Single mothers will not be wanted. Most people will by necessity will be rooted to productive farmland and their lives will center around growing food. Men and women will be once again tied to one another by necessity. And goodbye “progressive” ideas about what constitutes families.
    Farming families have enough trouble keeping themselves fed, never mind producing a massive amounts to feed people in other fields like manufacturing and media and highly learned theoreticians in the arts and social sciences.
    Bid farewell to software developers, kiss the IPhone goodbye and also highly advanced medicine and especially producing things like birth control pills. I doubt there will be the scientific and industrial infrastructure and capacity to produce such neat stuff.
    Without reliable birth control screwing generally results in more mouths to feed and more anxiety about keeping everyone fed. So who screws whom and who bears responsibility for the result will be a front and center issue.
    And IF god help her, a woman is suspected of having born a child by a man other than her husband…. And IF god help him a man is suspected of having impregnated another man’s wife…
    The knives come out. Literally.

  336. Rhino September 12, 2012 at 1:52 pm #

    Unintended pregnancies still happened. How would you deal with them in your Perfect Society? – X
    I’ve read that Roman families left unwanted infants on hillsides to die. I’ve read also that nowadays female infanticide in rural China is rife. No idea what’s in store for our successors. All I’m saying is that the solutions to such a problem are not always pretty.

  337. Jam47 September 12, 2012 at 1:53 pm #

    You wear a charcoal-filter mask when you weld? Welding fume, depending on the type of welding rod and the type of metal being welded, can hit the brain really hard. Parkinsonism etc.
    As far as I know, professional welders don’t wear respirators while they work. So you, doing it part
    time, probably don’t either. But still…
    Twenty-odd years ago I used to know a couple of industrial spray-painters who thought that wearing a mask was for sissies. Idiot bravado, I thought at the time. Nowadays they’re probably both wandering where their health went.

  338. rippedthunder September 12, 2012 at 1:54 pm #

    Shit, I was on the moon last night!! It sucked coming back to earth. I weigh 5 times as much and I can only hit a golf ball 275 yards. Now, back to painting and serious stuff.

  339. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 2:03 pm #

    But if we had ‘production for use’ there would be more time for the important things in life. Laughter, love and music. Companionship, joy and self-fulfillment would be possible because wouldn’t mankind be freed from toil.
    The better people have it, the better dogs have it. I wag my tail to ‘production for use’ and it has been a personal philosophy of mine since I was a pup.
    Of course it would number the days of aristocracy as the world became more fair and just so a considerable amount of systemic change resistance will emerge if the idea begins to take hold. The aristocracy would loose their feedbag when people no longer could be exploited.
    System dynamics. Even things good for man and dog will be resisted by the social system which seeks homeostasis.

    “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer

  340. XXX5 September 12, 2012 at 2:09 pm #

    Xhalor said:
    Shooting down 757’s over Manhattan. Now there’s a good plan.
    ***************************************************************
    Wow, I’ve read your recent posts and you’re a doozy. Who says that would have had to wait until the planes arrived in Manhattan? And, yes, shooting them down IN Manhattan would have caused wreckage to rain down but I guaran-fucking-tee you that several thousand people would not have died AND those towers would still be standing. Get a little common sense, would ya?
    E.

  341. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 2:16 pm #

    Actually I enjoy gas welding. The kind that uses acetylene(a hydrocarbon) burned with pure oxygen to produce the hot blue flame needed to melt steel.
    A butane torch uses air to burn hydrocarbons and consequently can’t melt steel. That’s like burning kerosene at atmospheric pressure, it won’t melt much. Working with a torch which requires pure oxygen to get hot enough to melt steel is a lot more fun.
    I can do stick and that’s great for practical things like a boat trailer and such but it’s hard to get an ‘artistic’ bead.

  342. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 2:22 pm #

    I am big on proper ventilation. Da brain is not goin down de drain and (knock on wood) my family history says it won’t.

  343. XXX5 September 12, 2012 at 2:23 pm #

    K-Dog,
    I understand your arguments about the “physics” of the building collapses but I, personally, choose NOT to go there. Why? Because you end up with a “my engineering experts versus your engineering experts” pissing battle that gets bogged down in minutiae.
    What I liked about Imposimato’s speech as related to us by Helen Highwater is that ZERO conjectures need be made about our total lack of military response to the hijacks. It wasn’t merely humiliating to us … it was downright unbelievable.
    Just as many accuse FDR of knowing in advance about Pearl Harbor yet doing nothing to prevent it, I think our government knew that these attacks would create a gigantic pretext for engaging in all-out plundering of the Middle East complete with permanent military bases.
    There is simply no way that the lack of scrambling of fighter jets can be accounted for by mere INCOMPETENCE. There had to be a hard STAND DOWN order. When you have jets that can fly at Mach 2 and not ONE of them was SEEN en route to interception of the Boeing Planes … if your hackles aren’t raised then your credulousness is at Bambi levels.
    About this issue, there is no “my engineers opinion versus yours” mire. This is WILLFUL incompetence.
    E.

  344. xhalor September 12, 2012 at 2:26 pm #

    Guaranteed huh. So what was the operational status of the closest intercept aircraft? Were the necessary ground crews ready for a hot mission over civilian airspace? Do you know the chain of events that has to happen to deploy live ordnance? Especially over NYC? Tick-tock.
    This is why people who have never been in these situations should not offer up their uninformed opinions.

  345. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 2:34 pm #

    We are living in a kinda world of lies. Both sides lie. Friends lie, Parents lie, Society lies, priests lie, teachers lie, sales people lie, doctors lie,media lies, lawyers lie, honest people lie and so on and so on.

    That insufferable is why this weeks piece is titled Zeitgeist Failure
    Jim is calling for
    Zeitgeist Change !!!!

    How could we possibly think that we could ever, ever have a government that is honest? Its virtually impossible.

    Take my paw, you are trapped in the Zeitgeist.
    You already know the answer but don’t trust yourself enough to be free yet.

    So if you want a world of truth and justice, then practice what you pretend you want from others. Be honest, kind and generous with your love and money and things will change.

    That’s one of the answers. Enforcing the rule of law is another, and that hasn’t been done for quite a while.

  346. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 2:34 pm #

    It’s like shootin’ fish in a barrel, ain’t it, XXX5?
    There are so many doozies gathered in one place. And I am looking into a mirror!

  347. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 2:39 pm #

    A new independent investigation is needed but you are quite right.

    ZERO conjectures need be made about our total lack of military response to the hijacks. It wasn’t merely humiliating to us … it was downright unbelievable.

    And no accountability, none.
    The behavior of a dying empire.

  348. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 2:41 pm #

    There had to be a hard STAND DOWN order.
    ==============
    But who issued such an order?
    Can a VP issue a stand-down order?
    And who follows a stand-down order knowing the country is under attack?
    By following such a stand-down order, are they being good soldiers, or are they traitors to the country… responsible for the deaths of thousands?

  349. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 2:52 pm #

    I don’t agree that it comes down to a battle of engineering experts. Physical laws cannot be violated and this is a question that can be answered. Either they were or weren’t, there is no halfway. A proper independent investigation could arrive at the truth, it is out there.
    ?: Obama (More mendacious lies and deception.)
    ?: Romney (From the party of oil wars, nuff said.)
    ?: K-Dog (Committed to reality the scientific method and truth and justice.)
    Without proper investigation the conspiracies will never end and there will be no justice.

  350. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 3:11 pm #

    XXX5 said: There had to be a hard STAND DOWN order.
    ==============
    Xhalor replied: “Do you know the chain of events that has to happen to deploy live ordnance?”
    ===============
    So, the issuance of a HARD stand down order would have involved a CHAIN OF EVENTS?
    Who could have issued a HARD stand down order?
    How many people would have received such an order?
    And they have all kept quiet about such an order being issued?
    Definitely sounds like XXX5 is deep into conspiracy theory territory.
    With the TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS wasted on the military, y’all want to believe we are buying protection from attack.
    None of you seems to want to believe the simplest explanation (following Ockham’s Razor), which is pure military layabout incompetence.
    THOSE TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARE BEING WASTED.
    We can be attacked, (as we were on 9/11/2001), at any time.
    Only LOVE can prevent attacks. If you have only friends and no enemies, you need not fear attack.
    We are spending TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS to create enemies. Our military and security apparatus has created enemies around the world through its bombings, its “incursions,” its “police actions,” its “extraordinary renditions,” its torture, its extortion, its violent suppression of popular will and its overthrowing of democratically elected governments.
    Chickens coming home to roost never did make me sad; they’ve always made me glad. –Malcolm X

  351. xhalor September 12, 2012 at 3:19 pm #

    Shut up, ding-dong.

  352. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 3:45 pm #

    Sorry, xhalor, the days when folks like you could make me shut up are long gone.
    You said the issuance of a HARD stand down order would have involved a CHAIN OF EVENTS? Who could have issued a HARD stand down order? How many people would have received such an order? How many people would have knowledge of a hard stand down order being issued?
    Was there a conspiracy, such that all of them have kept quiet about such an order being issued?
    Look up “layabout” … military waste on “training” leading to military incompetence, pure and simple. We were not protected on 9/11.

  353. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 3:54 pm #

    http://occupythecpd.org/
    We, the undersigned, demand presidential debates that include the real choices before the voters this November. The debates must include every candidate who is on enough ballots to win the White House and who has demonstrated a minimal level of support — meaning either 1% of the vote in a credible national poll, or qualification for federal matching funds, or both. In 2012, the Green and Libertarian party candidates both meet all of these criteria.
    We call on the national news media, the League of Women Voters, and every other civic organization that speaks up for the rights of regular people to organize a 2012 presidential debate that includes all the qualified candidates.
    We call on the Commission on Presidential Debates to change its arbitrary rules to include all the qualified contenders. And we urge our fellow Americans to rise up and demand democracy in our presidential elections, beginning today with the presidential debates. These debates belong to the people, not the politicians or Wall Street.
    http://occupythecpd.org/

  354. anti soak September 12, 2012 at 3:58 pm #

    Cudos, thats his new ‘handle’ here.
    Or Alfred E. ‘what me worry’ Newman.

  355. anti soak September 12, 2012 at 4:01 pm #

    yes, and at yr link:
    Filmmaker Sam Bacile in hiding after anti-Muslim film sparks violence in which American diplomat was killed…………….
    [I tell ya, those dual citizens].

  356. xhalor September 12, 2012 at 4:10 pm #

    OK Ding Dong. So you have evidence of a stand down order. From Big Dick you say. So the Commander in Chief was completely incapacitated?
    Let’s see your evidence.

  357. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 4:13 pm #

    Here is my evidence, from one of the most intelligent posters on CFN:
    There had to be a hard STAND DOWN order. When you have jets that can fly at Mach 2 and not ONE of them was SEEN en route to interception of the Boeing Planes … if your hackles aren’t raised then your credulousness is at Bambi levels.
    –posted by E. today

  358. anti soak September 12, 2012 at 4:15 pm #

    Kyoostik will be so happy yr back.
    You Mister [? Madame] are his favorite poster.

  359. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 4:16 pm #

    I did not say the Commander in Chief was “completely incapacitated”
    The Commander in Chief was occupied at that moment, reading My Pet Goat to an elementary school audience. I suppose you could interpret that 7 minute delay as being paralyzed to the point of being “completely incapacitated.”

  360. xhalor September 12, 2012 at 4:16 pm #

    WTF?! That’s your evidence?
    ding dong

  361. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 4:20 pm #

    Well, since XXX5 is not one for conspiracy theories, and he specifically used the word EVIDENCE, and since he is highly regarded on CFN as being an intelligent person … yes, that is my argument from authority.
    You think XXX5 is off into conspiracy tin foil hat territory with his assertion? Don’t forget, he was Teacher of the Year.

  362. anti soak September 12, 2012 at 4:26 pm #

    I liked yr comments [Sunday] to SJM.
    However they were so late in the week that many will not read them.
    As far as Wilbur goes, I did buy a few of his books and while hes no writer / lecturer at the Swami Chinmayananda level, if some get help from his watered down stuff, fine by me.
    For awhile my Chiropractor was going to one Byron Katie [married to Steven Mitchell], so I went to two meetings in West LA.
    IT WAS A HOOT! She would get 100s of people to listen to her nonsense and while the ‘teaser’ is free SHE CHARGES 30,000$ to get a group training with her.
    Her book is ‘Loving What Is’.

  363. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 4:27 pm #

    So, militants can run through the streets of Benghazi and incite a crowd to attack the U.S. embassy over a film is not worth fighting over. I just watched the trailer, it’s shit.
    Sam Bacile remained defiant, saying Islam is a cancer and that the 56-year-old intended his film to be a provocative political statement condemning the religion.”
    Haters inciting haters and Quo-Bama vows to go after those responsible which this time is surely the wrong move. But to expect otherwise from the man in the bubble would be madness.
    We have made our enemies well, no doubt this opportunity to create more will not be wasted.

  364. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 4:28 pm #

    over a film that is not worth fighting over.

  365. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 4:29 pm #

    Seven minutes reading My Pet Goat is a long time when your country is under attack and planes are flying into buildings. Tick Tock. George W. Bush was as incompetent as the military he commanded.

  366. xhalor September 12, 2012 at 4:30 pm #

    In a scenario like 9/11, the President does not have enough details on the situation to give the shoot order. He gets a recommendation from a tactical officer in charge. Class dismissed.
    ding dong

  367. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 4:31 pm #

    It ain’t the film, it’s the drones stupid. (among other things)
    Only stupid presidents use drones.

  368. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 4:33 pm #

    He looked rather drained when he got the news, and all from a children’s book.

  369. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 4:34 pm #

    Obama is not incompetent, but what can he do with an incompetent military that pisses on dead bodies, flushes holy books down toilets, cuts off ears as souvenirs, etc.?

  370. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 4:37 pm #

    There, you just admitted it. We have the world’s largest government bureaucracy in the Pentagon and, upon attack, action cannot be taken immediately because there has to be a CHAIN OF EVENTS.
    In other words, this country is completely defenseless from suicide bombers, and the military is a waste of money. Class dismissed.

  371. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 4:40 pm #

    Oh I don’t know. Clean House?

  372. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 4:48 pm #

    Yeah, he left the Bush guys in office running things. Big mistake. Maybe after he gets re-elected he can clean house. I doubt he will. Instead he will probably go over to the Republicans and sweetly ask them what they want in order to “compromise” and then he’ll give in to every Republican demand. Obama is Republican-lite. Obama care was a gift to private, inefficient health insurers. He would not even listen to calls for a public option. Obama has cut taxes more than Republicans, deported more immigrants than Republicans, gave in to Wall Street and banks like Republicans, is pro-guns like Republicans, and has adopted far too many Republican ideas. That is why the country is in a mess. Obama is a Republican.

  373. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 4:51 pm #

    Apparently a post can’t start with a link.
    I suppose this guarantees re-election by the doofoisie but I’ll keep trying.

    ?: Obama (War)
    ?: Romney (More War)
    ?: K-Dog (Peace)

  374. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 4:53 pm #

    No my bad, this is the link I wanted to post, it turned out to be a typo.
    Zeitgeist Failure

  375. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 4:54 pm #

    ?: Obama (War)
    ?: Romney (More War)
    ?: K-Dog (Peace)
    ?: Jill Stein (Peace and Green Jobs)

  376. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 5:00 pm #

    ?: Jill Stein (A failed paradigm)
    ?: K-Dog (The fresh approach)

  377. muddmike September 12, 2012 at 5:09 pm #

    It is a good thing we have the Republicans protecting us from voter fraud!
    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/09/florida-found-just-one-illegally-registered-voter-its-voter-crackdown/56706/

  378. xhalor September 12, 2012 at 5:18 pm #

    I say rename this thing to
    THE NEURO BLOG
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQzJpVhmf9g

  379. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 5:19 pm #

    You have misused the word “paradigm.” You are using it in a manner which Thomas Kuhn would not approve.
    Does your fresh approach change what it is you are observing? Does your fresh approach to government change the kind of questions you are asking? Does your fresh approach change how these questions are to be structured? Does your fresh approach change how the results of scientific investigations should be interpreted?
    If not, then yours is not a paradigm shift, and is not really a fresh approach.
    SOURCE
    Kuhn, Thomas S. (1962). The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (1st ed.). University of Chicago Press.

  380. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 5:22 pm #

    You don’t understand, Mike. Because the Republicans are threatening prosecution people are not engaging in voter fraud. It’s like the military says: The best way to avoid war, is to prepare for war. And if you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

  381. Widespreadpanic7 September 12, 2012 at 5:27 pm #

    I’ve been away, fishing for Blues on Long Island Sound. Incidentally, there’s no evidence that the sea level is even 1 inch higher than it was 40 years ago.
    Anyway, I’m here to find out how the disasters in Egypt and Libya are the fault of President Bush, Candidate Romney, and Israel. That the Nobel Peace Prize winner is faultless goes without saying. I’m not even questioning that.
    There is a question about some movies made here blaspheming Allah. What if we had a riot every time Christ was blasphemed … even on this site alone. The whole world would be in flames.
    –WSP7

  382. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 5:46 pm #

    Does your fresh approach change what it is you are observing? Does your fresh approach to government change the kind of questions you are asking? Does your fresh approach change how these questions are to be structured? Does your fresh approach change how the results of scientific investigations should be interpreted?

    Why yes it does that’s why I used that word.
    P – A – R – A – D – I – G – M
    Paradigms matter.
    But I need to take a walk in the park and get some sun. You’ll have to wait to learn any more so you might as well put me on hold for a while Asoka. I need to chase the ball.
    Unless you want to take advantage of my absence.

  383. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 5:54 pm #

    What if Quo-Bama burst into Eric holders office threw him against the wall, bitch slapped him a few times and the said:
    I want Sam Bacile’s head on a pike and I want it now. Charge him with aiding Al-Qaeda and abetting terrorism by deliberately inciting a riot and put him in a hole so deep the sun falls asleep before it hits the bottom.
    And do it before you fall asleep again.
    I bet cruise ships could be making safe ports of call in Benghazi by spring.

  384. k-dog September 12, 2012 at 5:55 pm #

    and the said:
    should be
    and said:

  385. AMR September 12, 2012 at 6:02 pm #

    There are less grisly alternatives, too, depending on societal mores. The antiabortion movement in the US, for example, didn’t really go mainstream until the nineteenth century. Prior to that, it was a small movement promoted largely by Catholics, who at the time were marginalized by virulent Protestant and quasi-Protestant secular bigotry in much of the country. (The Catholic Church really scared the hell out of a lot of people back then as a potential theocratic force, and for some good reason.) It was largely physicians, queasy at the implications of aborting anatomically formed fetuses, who first made the antiabortion stance really respectable in mainstream American (i.e., Protestant) society. Even the Puritans, who have (somewhat erroneously) become a byword for sexual repression, tolerated abortion until the quickening, i.e., around the end of the first trimester.
    Along similar lines, I saw a very interesting map from circa 1960, showing state restrictions on birth control. East of the Mississippi, there was a very distinct line of demarcation, pretty much following the Ohio and Potomac Rivers, with restrictions in place exclusively to the north. This was within living memory, but at the state level the politics were the polar opposite of what they are today.
    Rigid pro-life zealotry strikes me as a morally cowardly stance in any society, but particularly in one with limited food and contraceptive resources. Of course, the hardcore pro-life movement has practically no capacity for moral triage and no concern for the suffering of the living. Instead, it just operates from the childish, Manichean premise that babies are good and killing babies is bad. If shit really hits the fan, these theocrats might be a worthy target of the knife-wielders. Otherwise, we may end up with a hideous synthesis of “The Handmaiden’s Tale” and “Lord of the Flies.”

  386. XXX5 September 12, 2012 at 6:42 pm #

    Xhalor said:
    WTF?! That’s your evidence?
    ding dong
    ********************************************************
    You want EVIDENCE that there was no military response at all? That’s like asking for “evidence” that the sun will rise tomorrow. You’ve always struck me as being another empty head on this site and this only verifies.
    No, dude, YOU prove to ME that jets even GOT OFF THE GROUND to intercept those planes. Idiot.
    E.

  387. XXX5 September 12, 2012 at 6:45 pm #

    I might add, Xhalor, that your credulity of the moral purity of our government is naive beyond belief just given the fact that thousands of embezzling bankers are walking around as free men and not one of them was prosecuted. Indeed, they’re making a killing taking free government money and NOT lending it out.
    You, Sir, are a doofus.
    E.

  388. orionoir September 12, 2012 at 6:50 pm #

    [My point is that there are sound, practical reasons for traditional practices which control sexuality and that those reasons have nothing to do with Herr Freud. In short, catting around, playing the field, however you want to characterize it, is EXPENSIVE, for individuals and for communities. Going forward, I doubt we will be able to afford this kind of self-indulgence much longer.]
    ———–
    in general, we all criticize things we don’t know about (eg, me and the twin towers;) however, the big exception to this rule is that, as adults, we all have opinions re sex *and* we all know what we’re talking about. perhaps i should star the last word: *sex.*
    if you buy the idea that, unlike most other quibbles, our disagreements about sex are actually well-informed, then you’re stuck in a new pickle, eg, why the great divergence of belief, practice & theory? usually the more people know, the closer they come to consensus.
    my high school sex ed teacher announced to the auditorium, sex is fun. that was her entire thesis. (she also hopped up on a lab table to demonstrate the standard position for a pelvic exam) (fully clothed) (but so horrifying that it was several weeks before anybody had the nerve to fuck again.) i forgot what i was saying.
    oh yes: sex is fun. that’s pretty much my entire worldview right there. yes, there are regrets to be had, etc., and infidelity can suck especially for families raising children — but — i’m not sure how someone could prove one way or another whether “catting around” is economically inefficient. after all, it worked for ghengis khan.
    imho, the real trouble with indiscriminate procreation is that it weakens family & clan institutions of wealth especially. if you’re a rockefeller or kennedy you can afford to weaken your dollars to heir ratio, but if you’re a smaller capital accumulator your dynasty is crippled. i suppose mitt romney’s fortune is a bit compromised… at $50/son he’s relegating his family to also-ran status.
    okay, i just made that up. accept for a moment that i’m a reasonably intelligent well-meaning guy, that i’m not trolling out of sheer spite… i for one think this describes a number of the best commenters here. intelligent people have opinion re things they don’t know about, and they make up rationales to support their beliefs. nothing wrong with that.
    for example, i’m pretty sure that there was some issue re the fire proofing applied to the steel beams of the trade towers. i don’t know this for a fact. let’s throw in a bunch of other things i think i’ve heard, but which i am unsure… was bin laden’s family in bigtime construction? and bin laden was in on the first bombing, right, which was proof of concept that your more-typical demolition method was insufficient. so i wonder if he read in some trade journal re the bad fire-proofing. lord knows, when they built those suckers there was lots of media coverage of stupid mistakes. i think.
    anyhow, i can see myself writing a post to the effect that it was all about fire from the very beginning. an informed person might tell me i am an idiot. which is always useful to me.
    as for freud, well, don’t you say nothing bad about my man. yes, his answers tended to be wrong, sometimes very wrong. but oh what questions! i’d say the same of jhk.

  389. muddmike September 12, 2012 at 6:51 pm #

    asoka,
    How much do you want for the bridge. Then I can charge tolls. Privatization in action!

  390. Nastarana September 12, 2012 at 6:55 pm #

    I am not trying to construct a “Perfect Society”. Utopianism might be your obsession; it is not mine. I know of no evidence to support the notion that human nature is perfectible in this life.
    I am trying to figure out what is coming at us next so I won’t be blindsided.
    Kindly refrain from putting words in my keyboard.

  391. xhalor September 12, 2012 at 6:56 pm #

    As much as I love filling up empty space here, I’m not gonna do it for you. Obviously, you are very impressed with yourself.
    Do you know how many people an order like that has to be cleared by?
    No, you don’t.
    Do you know how long it takes to prep a fighter for that kind of mission?
    No, you don’t.
    Do you know if the available aircraft were able to fly at their top speeds?
    No, you don’t.
    Do you know if they were able to reach the passenger planes before they were over a heavily populated area?
    No, you don’t.
    Do you even know why you don’t know these things?
    Well, I’ll tell ya. Because the operational status of interceptors is classified, dumbass.
    Now show me your evidence of a stand down order.

  392. orionoir September 12, 2012 at 7:01 pm #

    {dude, YOU prove to ME that jets even GOT OFF THE GROUND to intercept those planes. Idiot.}
    ========
    don’t be so confident that none of us can refute your baseless suppositions. take a moment to think: 9/11 was a comparatively local event for many people here. my boyhood buddy went off to usafa, served, went into the reserves as a commercial pilot based at, of all places, boston’s logan. two of his colleagues died, as well as the usual assortment of stray connections we all have, knowing somebody at kantor or morgan, whatever.
    so my buddy, who i don’t see a whole lot anymore, certainly knows what got off the ground and what didn’t.
    and if you don’t believe me, i will pick up the phone right now and have him come and carpet bomb your ass.

  393. xport September 12, 2012 at 7:04 pm #

    Kunstler, you dirty dog, a master grave digger, and swine. How dare you. Too much Magic. There is never enough magic! We meed radical magic now more that ever. The Father, Son and holy ghost, and all their brothers and sisters and uncles and cousins too. Heaven help us and God damn the man.
    Now is the time for all good fellows to come to the aid of the party of humanity. Let go of greed and embrace the joy of the moment.

  394. Nastarana September 12, 2012 at 7:07 pm #

    OMG, Thomas Kuhn, no less!
    You do realize, Asoka dear, how that reference dates you, do you not?

  395. XXX5 September 12, 2012 at 7:09 pm #

    Hey, you. That’s right, YOU … numbskull. Read this.
    The shocking failure of the air defense system to protect New York City and the capital would seem to require either an incredible series of failures or an order to stop intercepts — a stand-down order. Yet apparently there have been no cases of military officials disciplined for gross negligence surrounding 9/11/01, nor have there been publicized reports of commanders admitting to having received stand-down orders.
    If the stand-down order were disguised as a procedural change, and enacted well in advance, it might be hidden in plain sight.
    CJCSI 3610.01, dated July 31, 1997, required that all requests for assistance in hijackings be approved by the Secretary of Defense. An update to that order, CJCSI 3610.01, dated June 1, 2001, had an exception for emergencies that would seem to give commanders in the field autonomy in ordering intercepts. However, that exception did not cover requests for “potentially lethal assistance”, the kind required to respond to the attack:
    (DODD 2025.15, Feb. 18, 1997) 4.4 The Secretary of Defense retains approval authority for support to civil authorities involving: use of Commander in Chief (CINC)-assigned forces (personnel units, and equipment) when required under paragraph 4.5, below; DoD support that will result in a planned event with the potential for confrontation with specifically identified individuals and/or groups or will result in the use of lethal force. 1
    Hence, this order may have been the long-sought stand-down order.
    If it is true that the standing orders would have required approval by the Secretary of Defense for intercepts on 9/11/01, then, in theory, a defacto stand-down could have been implemented by the secretary simply failing to act during the crisis. However, it is doubtful that insiders planning the attack would have relied on the orders alone to assure that there was no effective military response to the attack. It was likely one of a number of “fixes” that included multiple war games planned on the day of the attack. Thus, even if commanders violated standing orders and ordered intercepts of the commandeered jetliners, they would face depleted interceptor resources and corrupted flight data.
    ************************************************************
    Fort Dix often has planes flying around on “patrol” and there were actually Fort Dix planes circling over LONG ISLAND when the attacks occurred. It turns out, they were NEVER TOLD that the attacks had been completed. Now why would that be?
    E.

  396. XXX5 September 12, 2012 at 7:16 pm #

    To Xhalor … the doofus. Since I did military airplane computer work at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina in 1984-1987 while working on a DoD project for the Stanford Research Institute, I know ten times more about the chain of command for emergencies like 9/11 than you ever have a HOPE of knowing. As any person who’s engaged in this kind of work knows, in such emergencies the “chain of command” is ONE person … THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE. Period.
    You don’t know your ass from first base yet you have the audacity, as Asoka often does (like in the “hypothecate” debate), to assume FIRST that I “know nothing”. I had a security clearance from 1982 to 1988 and my primary duties were software for onboard controls in both cargo and fighter craft.
    What are your QUALS? Let me guess … you were a NORAD commander, right? [sic]
    E.

  397. XXX5 September 12, 2012 at 7:18 pm #

    By the way, Xhalor, if you read the ordinances I posted, the Secy of Defense has COMMANDER IN CHIEF POWERS during emergencies like 9/11 … you IDIOT.
    E.

  398. xhalor September 12, 2012 at 7:24 pm #

    All very impressive. But you were not involved in any of it ON THAT DAY. When was the last time we were attacked like? You think that maybe there was a little confusion? Someone in the line-up caught off guard? Holy Shit! Whose got the keys!
    YOU WEREN’T THERE!!!

  399. Nastarana September 12, 2012 at 7:35 pm #

    Dream on. I very much doubt that future, or even near future sustainable communities are in any way going to resemble happy hippy group gropes with chix an’ dope an’ someone’s Daddy payin’ the bills.
    As for catting around being expensive, let us consider an example from contemporary life; a woman raising children on her own, which is not at all unusual these days. I did. Two. On less cash than you probably spend on your bar tab, or recreational substance of choice. One is in college and one is gainfully employed.
    Where do you spend such cash as you might have? Shoes for the kid, or the boyfriend’s parking ticket? What if you come into a modest inheiritance? Send your kid to college, or pay for his Mom’s operation? What about when your kid can’t have a room for doing homework, never mind sleeping in, because his cousin needs a place to stay? This can get pretty durn old pretty durn fast. No, the pleasures of sex DO NOT make up for seeing your kid shivering because BF helped himself to the cash you had set aside for winter coats.

  400. Dave in Pasadena September 12, 2012 at 7:38 pm #

    Too many people assume that electricity will be available as energy becomes scarcer and more expensive. Think again. Electricity is presently supplied through a highly complex and energy-hungry system. Solar and wind supply almost nothing as a portion of total electrical energy needs. Nearly all solar and wind generation systems do not spin the huge machines that keep an electrical system stable with constant current at the desired voltage and Herz (cyles per second). In short, if you are trying to imagine the future, try imagining electricity supply that is unreliable, unpredictable, and (more) expensive than it is now. And manufacturers and other businesses are even more reliant on vast amounts of high quality electricity (Cyles per second always held at exactly 60 Herz, for example) to make such things as alloys, coatings, and microchips. Think about the delicate medical diagnostic equipment driven by a perfect supply of electricity. Our current highrise office buildings are unlivable without electricity to lift elevators(reliability key because nobody wants to be trapped in an elevator 45 floors up)and supply cooled air (every office building in the country during the summer must be cooled or humans cannot tolerate the heat inside). (Sorry for the long post, but believe it or not I cut it short and abbreviated greatly. Whole books have been written about the complexity of the electrical system and the many ways in which it is energy-dependent, and not just for the fuel to generate the watts for the homeowner and businessman.)

  401. xhalor September 12, 2012 at 7:57 pm #

    Lots of “ifs”, “mays”, “seems”, and “likelys” offered in your proof of a stand down state. Yeah, those published military orders always were ambiguous. Let’s not forget where the term “clusterfuck” came from. Remember General Haig on the day that Reagan was shot? “I’m in charge here”
    You can bet that the Big Green Weenie was in full tumescence at that moment.

  402. welles September 12, 2012 at 7:58 pm #

    we all be totally screwed and should have “voted with the feet” long before. many already have – welles being one – and an increasing number are making plans. i be traveling back to S.E. Asia again soon to look around.
    if the only reason you’re hesitant about getting out of the United Stinks is family, find a nice place that’s quickly accessible, like mexico or panama.
    man the world is so much better outside the US familywise, foodwise, socially. if i ever went back there i’d likely find a commune to recreate what we have here.
    good riddance to bad rubbish.
    ps we have some tomato, jilo and citrus plants growing by accident out back the house where we had thrown some leftover food but missed the bag, lol it’s growing nicely. thank you YAHWEH for these beautiful gifts that are free.
    don’t believe anyone when they say the world’s getting worse….
    peace peaceniks

  403. xhalor September 12, 2012 at 8:12 pm #

    Gee, you’re not bitter are you? Sounds like you should be going after someone for child support.

  404. muddmike September 12, 2012 at 8:18 pm #

    Dave,
    At least we should be able to go to WalMart,or Costco if we have any money to spend.
    http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2012/09/top-solar-companies

  405. Zed Leppt In September 12, 2012 at 8:24 pm #

    More sign-of-the-time news: Texas has approved an 85MPH speed limit for a new toll highway between San Antonio and Austin. There are already 80MPH highways in state but this will be the highest posted speed limit in the country. The Texas Transportation Commission states that when speed limits are set too low some drivers develop a disrespect for the law (who’da thunk that?) and that limits are optimized for the 85th percentile – that is the speed at which 85% of motorists will drive at or below the posted speed.
    As the cliff edge looms the horizon, what better response than to floor the accelerator?

  406. xiaoxiaos5 September 12, 2012 at 8:26 pm #

    2011 North Carolina Tar Heels football group

    The 2011 North Carolina Tar Heels soccer group represented the College of North Carolina at Chapel Hill inside the 2011 college soccer time. The group was led by interim head coach Everett Withers and played their home games at Kenan Memorial Stadium. They had been members with the Atlantic Coast Meeting inside the Coastal Division. They finished the season 7-6, 3-5 in ACC play to complete tied for fourth inside the Coastal Division. They were invited to the Independence Bowl exactly where they had been defeated by Missouri 24-41.

    This was the initial at any time game as a head coach for Everett Withers. The Tar Heels in no way trailed inside the recreation, scoring on the opening push in the recreation having a 34 garden touchdown pass from Bryn Renner to Dwight Jones. The Heels gave up only one particular touchdown, which came off of the insuing travel after a mishandled snap, which resulted inside a blocked punt. In his first at any time collegiate start off, Bryn Renner set school and ACC documents for your best completion proportion (ninety five.7%) inside a single-game and was just shy from the NCAA document of ninety five.8% set in 1998 by Tennessee’s Tee Martin.[15]

    [edit] Rutgers Scarlet Knights

    North Carolina was capable to hold on into a 2 stage win regardless of turning the ball more than 5 times (two fumbles and three interceptions) rather than having just one takeaway. A essential defensive stand came within the initial quarter whenever a Rutgers interception was returned for the UNC 2 property line. The UNC defense was capable to hold the Rutgers offense and on 4th down from your 1 yard line held the line of scrimmage forcing a turnover on downs. The UNC defense was also able to hold Rutgers to only one property rushing total for your sport, the bottom total given that holding Wake Forest into a negative 2 yards in 2000.[16]

    Georgia Tech entered this meeting of unbeatens as one of many best offenses within the country averaging 53.three points and 675.3 yards a recreation.[18] The UNC defense, nevertheless, was in a position to carry them to only 35 points and 496 yards. Trailing 28-14 in the fourth quarter, UNC rallied powering an Eric Ebron touchdown reception as well as a 55 lawn Giovanni Bernard touchdown operate to tie the game up with seven:22 left in the sport. Georgia Tech took the guide for very good using a Tevin Washington touchdown operate with five:twenty remaining. Using the get, Georgia Tech goes to 4-0 for the very first time considering that their national championship period in 1990.[19]

    UNC did not commit a turnover within a sport for the initial time all period. They were +4 inside the turnover margin for that game (two fumble recoveries and 2 interceptions). Giovani Bernard became the first Tar Heel given that Natrone Indicates in 1992 to hurry for more than 100 yards in three consecutive games. His seven touchdowns via five video games ties the individual high for Johnny White as the team leader for your year in 2011. The UNC offense continued to carry out within the red-zone scoring touchdowns on 3 of 4 trips, getting their period complete to 15 touchdowns in 18 trips inside the redzone. The protection, nevertheless, has held opponents to only seven touchdowns in eighteen journeys in for the redzone so far this year.[20]

    Despite obtaining the ball for 22:08 in the very first fifty percent, Louisville only acquired 173 yards of offense. This was, nonetheless, 113 much more yards than UNC going in towards the locker rooms in the 50 percent. Within the 2nd 50 percent nonetheless, UNC outgained Louisville 202 to ninety five. Louisville’s only score from the match arrived with only 42 seconds still left to end the shutout for your UNC defense. Giovani Bernard grew to become the very first at any time freshman running back to hurry for over one hundred yards in 4 straight games. With this particular gain, UNC has won eight straight video games against non-conference opponents. Their last missing was from LSU in the 2010 Chick-fil-A School Kickoff.[21]

    UNC gave up a touchdown in the 1st quarter for the initial time this time. Miami took a 14-0 direct just before UNC ever took the field on offense. Thorpe and scored on their next play from scrimmage. The Heels practically created an inconceivable comeback when, down by thirteen, they scored a touchdown with 46 seconds remaining in the match. They then recovered the on-side kick on their very own forty four property line. They had been able to advance the ball for the thirty yard line following a 15 lawn move reception by Dwight Jones and an eleven garden reception by Giovani Bernard. Bernard also rushed for an additional 110 yards providing him 5 100+ property video games inside a row. This ties for that second most in a season by a UNC freshman. Another two UNC freshmen with this particular report are Amos Lawrence (who completed with six in 1977) and Leon Johnson (who finished with five in 1993).[22]

    The Tar Heels turned the ball over 6 instances within their 59-38 reduction to Clemson. This was the most factors permitted by UNC considering that they gave up sixty nine to Louisville in 2005. UNC was only down by 7 getting in towards the 50 percent as well as their protection had only permitted fifteen yards of dashing up to that stage. Nonetheless, Clemson’s 35 points inside the third quarter became just the 2nd time in school history to achieve this feat, the only real other time getting by the 1981 National Championship group. Thorpe became only the 2nd Tar Heel in history to record a kickoff return of 100 yards to get a touchdown.[23]

    With their get more than Wake Forest,womens nfl jerseys, North Carolina became bowl qualified for the 4th straight year. The Tar Heel defense caused five Deacon turnovers (three interceptions and two fumbles) following Wake Forest experienced dedicated only 5 turnovers the entire time coming in towards the match. UNC’s 49 factors was essentially the most they had scored inside a recreation because their opener towards William Mary in 2004 and also the most against an ACC opponent since the 2001 time. The Tar Heel protection was led by senior Zach Brown who had nine tackles (two.5 for any reduction), an interception, a sack,buffalo bills jersey, a pressured fumble, as well as a fumble restoration.[24]

    The Tar Heels had been shut out for the first time considering that a 7-0 reduction to Georgia Tech in 2006, and their very first shut out by NC State considering that 1960. Bryn Renner was knocked out with the game with concussion-like symptoms early in the second fifty percent. The UNC offense had its worst efficiency of the time, being held into a match reduced of 165 complete yards. Giovani Bernard was, however, capable to turn out to be the 15th Tar Heel to hurry for one,000 yards inside a season and also the third freshman to hurry for 1,000 yards. The only point within the recreation in which it seemed UNC was likely to put factors on the scoreboard was on the seventy five property touchdown reception by Dwight Jones that was named again due to the fact of holding around the offensive line.[25]

    Virginia Tech’s Logan Thomas fumbled on the initial play from scrimmage when he was sacked by Sylvester Williams. This set up UNC with a three perform, twenty yard drive that concluded having a Giovani Bernard 4 lawn touchdown. Immediately after preventing Virginia Tech from converting a 4th down on the UNC 26 lawn line, the Heels drove the length in the field for the 5 garden line exactly where Ryan Houston fumbled the ball and it absolutely was recovered from the Hokies. The final time that UNC and Virginia Tech played on Thursday night was in 2009 when Virginia Tech fumbled the ball on the push within the fourth quarter that eventually bring about a UNC victory. Immediately after coming 5 yards from taking a 1
    4-0 direct, UNC located alone giving up 24 unanswered points towards the Hokies through the fourth quarter. Even so, with seven:06 still left inside the match, Bryn Renner completed a pass to Erik Highsmith to minimize the lead to ten factors. Right after forcing the Hokies to punt on their subsequent possession, Renner finished a 25 yard pass to Dwight Jones, then a sixty four yard pass to Erik Highsmith for the two garden line exactly where Houston punched the ball in towards the endzone to lower the lead to 3 with 2:32 still left in the recreation. The Heels recovered the onside kick about the subsequent kick-off, but on additional review, it had been judged that the ball didn’t vacation the needed 10 yards on the kickoff which gave the Hokies the ball. They were in a position to run the clock right down to where only one play will be still left for UNC, who was not able to convert it in to a touchdown.[26]

    UNC beat Duke for a 8th straight year, the last lose coming in 2003. Dwight Jones broke the single period reception file with seventy nine receptions for the season. The preceding record of seventy four receptions was held by Hakeem Nicks. Bryn Renner tied the one time document for many passing touchdowns with 23. Furthermore, Giovani Bernard ran to get a season substantial 165 rushing yards. Duke quarterback, Sean Renfree, was taken out from the recreation during the 3rd quarter due to numbness and swelling in his proper hand. Simply because of this, Anthony Boone noticed the most snaps of his freshman year and guide the Blue Devils in dashing for your game.[27]

  407. orionoir September 12, 2012 at 8:46 pm #

    {As for catting around being expensive, let us consider an example from contemporary life; a woman raising children on her own, which is not at all unusual these days. I did. Two. On less cash than you probably spend on your bar tab, or recreational substance of choice. One is in college and one is gainfully employed.}
    ———-
    i suppose if cfn has a topic it’s contemporary life. what a hard thing to pin down, no?
    as for me and my bar tab, well, let’s not discuss that. as for my economic status, it’s comparatively quite low, although i often do try to seem wealthy, or at least worldly. or even successful. none is true.
    my education was paid for by my parents. as a matter of fact, i pretty much vaporized their retirement savings via healthcare debt; to date i’ve outlived my survival estimate by nearly eight years. in this way and others, i am your basic burden on society, although lately i’ve seen more purpose.
    i’ve never ever really truly been broke. when i have play money i play with it. our kids are on heavy financial aid, but the way i see it, they are such wonderful people, the colleges should be thanking us. how’s that for arrogance?
    re “catting around,” well, let’s not talk about that, either, except to say that now that i’m in permanent feline retirement (eg, married, sterile, impotent, with two genetic illnesses plus a bag of shit {ostomy} on my tummy,) i must say, semper fi. still, in a cosmic sense, i regret nothing.

  408. Stephen Daedalus September 12, 2012 at 8:47 pm #

    Some argue that electric cars are more efficient than gasoline powered cars, but when you account for the inefficiency of generating said electricity, line losses, and losses in charging the batteries, the electrics out come as energy losers. And, on top of that, you haven’t even warmed up the interior of the car!
    The world wastes far more energy than actually goes towards the intended function. Closing that gap would change the game a lot.

  409. myrtlemay September 12, 2012 at 8:52 pm #

    Like a drop of rain in the desert, at last a voice of REASON. Thanks! You’re one of the only reasons I keep looking at this site. MM

  410. xhalor September 12, 2012 at 8:56 pm #

    Really? I’ve yet to see proof that a stand down order was ACTUALLY ISSUED or a default state of stand down was ACTUALLY IN EFFECT.

  411. Stephen Daedalus September 12, 2012 at 8:56 pm #

    oops…”come out”

  412. Zed Leppt In September 12, 2012 at 9:01 pm #

    About those rooftop solar panels on Walmart stores: Last year, my local Walmart completed a 1000-panel rooftop solar panel installation consisting of 50 mounting units with computer contolled tracking mechanisms. The system generates 450,000kWhr of power per year, equivalent to 45 homes’ power usage according to the local utility. The store uses 3.6-million to 4.2-millionkWhr of power every year, enough energy to power about 380-420 homes a year. Walmart sells the power to local utility for 71 cents per kWhr while same utilty charges 6-11 cents per kWhr for usage. Government green energy subsidies pay for the difference.

  413. Nastarana September 12, 2012 at 9:06 pm #

    Production for use creates wealth, as opposed to mere profit. Make a person a tool they can use forever, and the person never has to replace it, thus freeing up money and time for other pursuits.

  414. Stephen Daedalus September 12, 2012 at 9:14 pm #

    See how insane our country is! No wonder nobody believes anything. CFN indeed!

  415. Nastarana September 12, 2012 at 9:19 pm #

    Over and done with now.
    What I am is fed up with whining Angry White Males feeling sorry for themselves.
    Newsflash, if you are an aging boomer single guy and you couldn’t get a date before Romney got elected pres., just supposing he does, you also ain’t getting one after.

  416. Jam47 September 12, 2012 at 9:26 pm #

    There’s plenty wrong with having an opinion on a topic you don’t know anything. If you post here on

  417. xhalor September 12, 2012 at 9:38 pm #

    “Fort Dix often has planes flying around on “patrol” and there were actually Fort Dix planes circling over LONG ISLAND when the attacks occurred. It turns out, they were NEVER TOLD that the attacks had been completed. Now why would that be?”
    ————————————————-
    I can only find references to aircraft being scrambled from Otis and Langley. I was going to ask you if the aircraft from Dix were armed when I found this 9/11 story. Lt. Heather “Lucky” Penney. Now this woman had some balls (did I say that?)
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/f-16-pilot-was-ready-to-give-her-life-on-sept-11/2011/09/06/gIQAMpcODK_story.html

  418. myrtlemay September 12, 2012 at 9:41 pm #

    Source: “What Really Happened” website.
    Quotation marks added by me:
    “President Roosevelt (FDR) provoked the attack, knew about it in advance and covered up his failure to warn the Hawaiian commanders. FDR needed the attack to sucker Hitler to declare war, since the public and Congress were overwhelmingly against entering the war in Europe. It was his backdoor to war.
    FDR blinded the commanders at Pearl Harbor and set them up by –
    denying intelligence to Hawaii (HI)
    on Nov 27, misleading the commanders into thinking negotiations with Japan were continuing to prevent them from realizing the war was on
    having false information sent to HI about the location of the Japanese carrier fleet.”
    ****
    Having lived through this era and seeing many of my friends (boys) lose their lives or become crippled, physically or emotionally, WWII has always interested me greatly. In my personal life, I’ve also known many high ranking men in the State Department, my husband being one of the the top brass between 1962 and 1976. By then my husband left because he knew that Jimmy Carter wasn’t going to play “the game” anymore; specifically, courting Israel. Says something about his character, me thinks.
    The criminality that existed in my era (l950’s to ’60s) was well in place during the l930’s and l940’s. I can still smell the stink of shit now as I did during my epiphany (circa 1980). Getting old has it’s advantages, I guess. Count me as non-plussed as to the turn of events we see today.

  419. anti soak September 12, 2012 at 9:44 pm #

    Gasoline evaporates as cars sit in the sun.
    What percent, I dont know, but we are safe in assuming its double digit.
    And Mike, that statement was from the Embassy. My bad.
    ‘The White House is repudiating a statement from the U.S. embassy in Cairo that apologized for individuals who “hurt the religious feelings of Muslims.” The apology came after rioting Islamists in Egypt on Tuesday took down the American flag at the embassy and tore it apart after trying to burn it because they were upset about an anti-Muslim film being produced in America”

  420. anti soak September 12, 2012 at 9:46 pm #

    If you were a big producer, yopu could do just that.
    You will never see Steinfeld on SND piss on any image other than Jesuses.

  421. anti soak September 12, 2012 at 9:50 pm #

    I looked at the Newsweeks ‘Bill and Barak’ issue. It has a Infrastructure – disasters story.
    It says 1000s still ‘guard and clean up’ Chernobyl!

  422. Stephen Daedalus September 12, 2012 at 9:50 pm #

    There is no redeeming quality in your response, and speaking of ‘angry white males’ in such an angry tone only says what an angry pissant you are. You are an angry white male.

  423. anti soak September 12, 2012 at 9:51 pm #

    Maybe someday the Demoncrats will protect our borders.
    When hell freezes over.

  424. Stephen Daedalus September 12, 2012 at 9:59 pm #

    Touche anti-soak…we could argue the points of energy ad-infinitum. My main point is how much we waste and making use of the waste changes the game.

  425. xhalor September 12, 2012 at 9:59 pm #

    Oh we’ve been involved in all kinds of bad business to be sure. I’m an Army vet. I was sent to El Salvador when I was very young and have first hand experience with our “dirty tricks”. I don’t believe that the US government really wants to be actively involved in the governance of ANY Muslim country. We are just too culturally different. It looks to me like our (and other indrustrial country’s) primary interest is maintaining access to the oil in those countries. Just go back to 1973 and remember what the sudden oil embargo was like. If that were to happen now it would be cataclysmic.

  426. Jam47 September 12, 2012 at 10:02 pm #

    There’s plenty wrong with having an opinion on a topic you don’t know anything about–IF you post that opinion here on Clusterfuck. If another poster thinks you’re talking through your hat, he/she is going to try and give you an intellectual whipping, everyone watching. And if think you’ve really been whipped, it becomes apparent. Your replies get feebler or semi-apologetic. Or you don’t reply at all–and disappear. SJ MOM, for instance. Is she ever going to come back?
    If duelling were still in vogue, and if the insults that fly back and forth on this site were made face to face instead of electronically, there would be much exchanging of cards and issuing of challenges for pistols at dawn.

  427. Jam47 September 12, 2012 at 10:11 pm #

    My 10;02 post was for Orionoir.

  428. Stephen Daedalus September 12, 2012 at 10:29 pm #

    I agree. Our policies are designed to keep the oil flowing in our direction. Unfortunately, those policies often are not good for us in the long term. As I have stated before, we need to close the gap on what we waste. We need real leaders who don’t sell us down the river for their own good but recognize the country’s good.

  429. NM156 September 12, 2012 at 10:32 pm #

    Vlad is my hero on this blog. You seem to have your own progressive wish-fulfillment fantasy of dumb minorities taking revenge on their evil white masters. Charlie Manson had that fantasy too.

  430. myrtlemay September 12, 2012 at 10:39 pm #

    I agree that the U.S. doesn’t want to be involved in running Muslim countries. Christ, we can’t even effectively run our own country! But if you pull the curtain a little further back, you’ll see Israel pulling the (our) strings. Like Cash, I don’t so much see the U.S. as being the “evil empire” as much as a conspiratorial whore who will jump on a cause that will further its own interests. (We’re only human…right?)
    I agree with Elaine Meniel Supkis and her website: cultureoflifenews. The people of the Muslim world are damned sick and tired of Israel and (henceforth) the Western World denigrating their religion. Why do we keep tweaking their noses? If their actions show insanity to us when we do poke fun of them, why do we continue to provoke them?
    The killing at our embassy was wrong. Who was/were the instigator(s)? The majority of Muslims are conservative, meaning that they don’t advocate “honor killings” and other horseshit. If it were Conservative Christians doing the “honor killings”, I, among many others, would be on the “First Hit” list! And I’m a banana slip peel away from the grave!

  431. XXX5 September 12, 2012 at 10:45 pm #

    MM said:
    Like a drop of rain in the desert, at last a voice of REASON. Thanks! You’re one of the only reasons I keep looking at this site. MM
    ***************************************************************
    Thanks Myrtle and you’re right about the slim pickings here. I keep hoping to log in and see a post by Being There but they’re infrequent. I love the way these people, rather than refuting your argument, feel that the only thing they have to do is say “prove it” while they are obliged to do no research at all and/or have no experience whatever in the arena in which they’re commenting.
    It’s become a tremendously dopey site.
    E.

  432. XXX5 September 12, 2012 at 10:53 pm #

    Well, goofy, you in order to believe that a stand down, direct or de facto, was not in operation, you have to believe that it takes 40 minutes for the FAA to contact a crucial official in Defense. I know that lag time is dead FALSE. If you knew how those skies were monitored by the FEDS on a minute-by-minute basis you wouldn’t try to sound like the bloviating dope that you are.
    So your last argument was “I wasn’t there”. Neither were you but apparently your arithmetic skills are absent while mine are present AND with rather large knowledge of the domain in question. It’s funny how I refute the “you don’t know” argument so your last line of defense is “you weren’t there”. This proves NOT that I’m an egotist but rather than you want to put up one rhetorical “Maginot Line” after another when I crush your stupid conjectures.
    F-series fighter jets at Fort Dix can be airborne with a lag time of FIVE MINUTES of a direct order from DoD. Not 45 or 35 or even 25. They were patrolling LONG ISLAND and intercept time at a cruising velocity of 1000 mph (much lower than their max) would have been TWO minutes. If they wanted to get them south of Albany, it would have been a whopping FOUR minutes. In other words, you are a fucking imbecile.
    NORAD had been on its highest state of alert since they just carried out a “Vigilance Operation”. Your supposition only makes sense if every Aviation official from Colorado Springs and Omaha east to Fort Dix was shot up with heroin. Otherwise, it’s swell.
    E.

  433. Stephen Daedalus September 12, 2012 at 10:59 pm #

    ‘It’s become a tremendously dopey site.’
    It mostly has been all along. Some of us have been searching for other intelligent life like searching for life on other planets! Is it out there?

  434. Stephen Daedalus September 12, 2012 at 11:16 pm #

    You’re concentrating on details that have no real importance. Our country is in real chaos because there are no real leaders. Other countries have leaders who know how to direct their citizens, whether we agree with them or not.

  435. Buck Stud September 12, 2012 at 11:27 pm #

    Ah yes, Orionor – I do remember you. You wrote one of the most beautiful lines ever here on CFN and chameleon was one of the words.
    Hope your continue to remain alive and healthy.

  436. asoka.. September 12, 2012 at 11:44 pm #

    I’m a banana slip peel away from the grave!
    Death is a fiction, MM.
    Energy can neither be created nor destroyed; it only changes form.
    Have you prepared yourself for the Bardo transition?
    http://www2.lib.virginia.edu/exhibits/dead/otherworld.html
    There is still time… but time’s a wastin’…

  437. Buck Stud September 12, 2012 at 11:46 pm #

    The people of the Muslim world are damned sick and tired of Israel and (henceforth) the Western World denigrating their religion. Why do we keep tweaking their noses? If their actions show insanity to us when we do poke fun of them, why do we continue to provoke them?

    Yeah, I heard that Buddhist statue in Afghanistan kept staring at the Taliban members so they were forced to blow it up. Fucking disrespectful piece of shit stones, now they’re in Muslim hating hell with all of the other Muslim haters like that film maker that was murdered. What was his name – van Gogh something? Anyway back to the statues. Rumor has it the statues were imitating the Mona Lisa and never let those poor Muslim devotees from the Taliban have a moment of psychic relief. Wherever the Taliban turned, the Buddhist statues were looking right through them, with pity.
    It’s tough being a religious asshole and putting up with the rest of the world.

  438. welles September 12, 2012 at 11:50 pm #

    I am is fed up with whining Angry White Males
    Angry Black Males are more of a plague on society, if you haven’t noticed. And then there’s the worthless angry Mexican males. I’ll take the white ones any day over the latter two sub-classes, and you prolly would too.
    Try thinking for yourself, instead of feeling empowered by robotically repeating phrases handed to you by low-IQ colored racists. They’ll turn on you in a flash & devour you if when it’s in their interest.
    Peace peaceniks

  439. Stephen Daedalus September 12, 2012 at 11:57 pm #

    ‘It’s tough being a religious asshole and putting up with the rest of the world.’
    I couldn’t put it better. They are out for revenge, and we are expected to understand their hurt.

  440. asoka.. September 13, 2012 at 12:08 am #

    LOL!
    Yes, dear Nastarana, back in the day I had a college scholarship and they had me reading all kind of weird stuff, like Aldous Huxley’s Doors of Perception, William James’ Varieties of Religious Experience, Joseph Pearce’s Crack in the Cosmic Egg, Harvey Cox’s Secular City, Reinhold Niebuhr’s Moral Man and Immoral Society, Paul Tillich’s Courage To Be, and a whole list of classics and philosophical texts.
    You get the idea. It was a “liberal education” and it was a blast. I feel sorry for the kids today who will never read stuff like that because they are only being “trained” to fit into a corporate job slot or a profession. To earn a living I eventually got my vocational training and did manual labor, but pounding nails as a union carpenter was a much richer experience because of the liberal education I had.
    It was ZEITGEIST SUCCESS!!!
    My life was changed, expanded, enriched, and I don’t regret a minute of sharing that experience with my lily-white classmates in college even though I never went on to be professionals like they did.

  441. xhalor September 13, 2012 at 12:12 am #

    “…you have to believe that it takes 40 minutes for the FAA to contact a crucial official in Defense. I know that lag time is dead FALSE.”
    “They (Ft. Dix fighters) were patrolling LONG ISLAND..”
    Again, you are making unsupported claims. Were you in a nearby flight control center? Do you personally know anybody who was? How do you know that there wasn’t some kind of communication or procedural problem?
    Same thing with the fighters from Dix. I already told you that I can’t find evidence of those planes being in the air during the critical moments. I’m wondering why myself. Do you have flight logs? Were they armed? C’mon man. Are you gonna gimme something to work with or are you just going to swear at me some more. My proof mostly comes from the 9/11 Commission and my own military experiences.
    Judging from the credentials you presented, I suspect that you were a civilian contractor working for the Air Force. As someone who has participated in combat missions, I can assure you all kinds of things, large and small, don’t go the way you plan all the time.
    And that bitch Mother Nature….don’t get me started.

  442. asoka.. September 13, 2012 at 12:13 am #

    The Taliban must have an advanced understanding of Buddhism. When Buddha was still alive he never asked his followers to make statues or worship him in images. Instead he taught us to not have any attachment to anything – not even himself. Buddha said that the best way to worship him was to follow his teachings. And that after he passed away, after his “Nippana” or “Nirvana”, his teachings would take his place.

  443. xhalor September 13, 2012 at 12:15 am #

    Yeah, yeah, yeah. I read “Crossing The Rubicon” too.

  444. asoka.. September 13, 2012 at 12:22 am #

    Oh, if you read it then maybe you know that America’s global dominance depends on a continually turning mill of guns, drugs, oil and money.
    Oil and natural gas–the fuels that make economic growth possible–are subsidized by American military force and foreign lending.
    In reality, 9/11 and the resulting “War on Terror” are parts of a massive authoritarian response to an emerging economic crisis of unprecedented scale. Hats off to Karl Marx, who predicted capitalism would collapse from its own internal contradictions.
    Peak Oil–the beginning of the end for our industrial civilization–is driving the elites of American power to implement unthinkably draconian measures of repression, warfare and population control.

  445. xhalor September 13, 2012 at 12:29 am #

    First of all, that was intended for XXX5. Secondly, I said that I read it, not that I agreed with all of it.

  446. asoka.. September 13, 2012 at 12:31 am #

    Well, excuuuuuuuse me. I don’t believe you were ever in the military. The aborted call center gig… that I believe.

  447. xhalor September 13, 2012 at 12:34 am #

    Well, I don’t believe that you exist so just who in the hell AM I talking to.

  448. San Jose Mom 51 September 13, 2012 at 12:45 am #

    Hi Jam,
    I’ve been busy with my contemplative inter-humanitarian Zen flower plucking.
    Jen

  449. asoka.. September 13, 2012 at 12:53 am #

    I am a figment of your imagination. I don’t exist except in your head.

  450. asoka.. September 13, 2012 at 12:58 am #

    “Romney seized on the frantic tweets of the Cairo embassy issued *before the attacks*, which condemned the sleazy Youtube videos by American Islamophobes that had provoked the ire of the crowds, as evidence that the Obama administration was siding with the attacking mobs.
    First of all, really? Romney is trying to get elected on the back of a dead US diplomat?
    Second of all, really? He thinks the State Department thought the attack on themselves was justified?
    Third of all, really? Romney is selective. When it comes to Christianity, Romney decries a ‘war on religion.’ But apparently he thinks there *should* be a war on Islamic religion. (Except that Romney himself condemned Terry Jones’s Qur’an burning a couple of years ago.)
    Romney’s intervention (he is just a civilian at the moment) in American foreign policy is unwise and risky, not to mention distasteful.”
    –Juan Cole

  451. anti soak September 13, 2012 at 1:09 am #

    I wonder about ‘energy’ almost as much as I do ‘Peak Oil’.
    Energy [technology] destroys the Biosphere.
    If they find ‘free energy’ the games almost over.
    People can ski over the coral reefs and snow mobile thru the forests even more.
    All the ewaste. People proudly say ‘I use a PC to save paper’.
    Think about it.

  452. anti soak September 13, 2012 at 1:14 am #

    Did many care? Wasnt the ‘we are all equal’ thing so 1970s?
    I think the media spun it so ‘we were suppose to care, and be equal and all’, but is that why non blacks who voted, did so for him?
    Certainly the 95% [fact check, mudd] of blacks who voted for him do so on racial lines.
    Is that racist?

  453. asoka.. September 13, 2012 at 1:14 am #

    I’m a banana slip peel away from the grave!
    ================
    MM, about the Tibetan Book of the Dead. First, study the instructions. That liberates those of the highest capacities (I think you are in that group, MM)
    If that doesn’t work, then practice the ejection of consciousness, which liberates spontaneously as soon as it is thought of, in the bardo of the moment before death. (this usually works for those of average capacities, so you are covered here, too)
    If that doesn’t work, then you will have to strive in the “Great Liberation Through Hearing” in the bardo of dharmatá.
    Good luck with this death! But no worries… eventually you will get it right!

  454. asoka.. September 13, 2012 at 1:16 am #

    Think about the server farms that keep this monster running… how long do you think the internet can last devouring all that energy?

  455. asoka.. September 13, 2012 at 1:26 am #

    “…the first response of the United States must be outrage at the breach of the sovereignty of our nation.” –Mitt Romney
    Hmm, he cares about sovereignty?
    I don’t recall Romney condemning the SEALs for “breaching the sovereignty” of Pakistan.

  456. xhalor September 13, 2012 at 1:55 am #

    Pakistan. Our ally in region.
    ding dong

  457. asoka.. September 13, 2012 at 2:06 am #

    Since I might die tomorrow, before I die I want to share this Beatles song based on the Bardo Thodol:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGmHwL1Nspc
    Turn off your mind
    Relax and float downstream
    It is not dying, it is not dying
    Lay down all thoughts
    Surrender to the void
    It is shining, it is shining
    That you may see the meaning of within
    It is being
    It is being
    =====================
    Good luck with your next transition everyone!

  458. asoka.. September 13, 2012 at 2:14 am #

    Oh, so you stand with Hilary Clinton:
    Secretary of State Hillary Clinton made it clear that preserving Pak-US amity was not a priority when it came to eliminating Bin Laden: “And I remember at one point, one of the briefers said the raid will be considered a gross violation of the Pakistanis’ national honor, and I exploded at the moment and said, what about our national honor? And what about going after a man who killed three thousand innocent people?” she said
    =============
    An ally would not hide a terrorist from us. They hid Bin Laden for six years, housed near their military academy.

  459. XXX5 September 13, 2012 at 2:26 am #

    As soon as you give one tenth the amount of information to others that I do instead of demanding it while giving none yourself, I’ll provide constant links to sites proving they were cruising Long Island during the WTC attacks. But the point is, goofy, YOU can find it out yourself on the Internet. So instead of being another Asoka on the site (one is enough), instead of just shitting on my assertions YOU prove them right or wrong.
    It’s not enough that I provided the text of the chain of command in the event of an aviation threat, you want me to give a goddamned bibliography before I’m allowed to say ANYTHING. You’re an Army vet, eh? Then how come you don’t know how long it takes to scramble a jet, Mister Military?
    Gawd.
    E.

  460. asoka.. September 13, 2012 at 2:34 am #

    So instead of being another Asoka on the site (one is enough), instead of just shitting on my assertions YOU prove them right or wrong.
    E., I did prove something to you last week and you thought you could get away without answering me.
    Well, here it is again this week, since you are mentioning me by name in your replies to Xhalor.
    Here is where I proved your assertion that Ken Wilber is a New Age bullshitter was uninformed.
    Still waiting for an answer from you.
    =======================
    You are doubling down on showing your ignorance of Wilber, ridiculously linking him to lightweights like Coehlo and Bynre new ageists.
    Then you have the audacity to say: “The theological area is my bailiwick…”
    Let me just a few of the authors Wilber is dialoging with that people like Coelho and Byrne have probably never even read.
    In alphabetical order, authors discussed in the MARRIAGE OF SENSE AND SOUL:
    Robert Bellah
    Nicholas Berdyaev
    Niels Bohr
    Auguste Comte
    Frederick Crews
    Daniel Dennett
    Jacques Derrida
    Wilhelm Dilthey
    Johann Fichte
    Michel Foucault
    Jean Gebser
    Carol Gilligan
    René Guénon
    Jurgen Habermas
    Martin Heidegger
    William James
    Immanuel Kant
    Thomas Kuhn
    Max Planck
    Sir Karl Popper
    Arthur Schopenauer
    Max Weber
    Alfred North Whitehead
    Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Wilber is a foremost critic of New Age thinking as represented by people like Coelho and Byrne.
    By the way, thank you for naming names, so I can address you misunderstanding of Wilber.
    Wilber is a critic of Boomer narcissism and all the new age crap that comes along with it.
    The fact that you have not read Wilber and ludicrously lump him in with new age writers would be hilarious if it wasn’t so pathetic. You are criticizing someone you have never read and you are doing Wilber a great injustice. Yet you seem oblivious and clueless about who Wilber is.
    Then you dare say people like Wilber do not define their terms, another gigantic admission of your ignorance. Wilber specifically takes pains to define terms. In his book, A SOCIAL GOD, he looks at the sociology of religion and nine different meanings of “religion” as the word is used by theologians and religionists.
    You are simply uninformed and it is embarrassing that you continue to display your ignorance like you do.
    You claim the theological area is your bailiwick. Have you even read people like Erich Neumann or Mircea Eliade? I have. Wilber has. I doubt you or Byrne or Coelho have.

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  463. XXX5 September 13, 2012 at 4:54 am #

    X said:
    Pakistan. Our ally in region.
    ding dong
    ******************************************************
    You gotta be kidding, dingbat. We just drop paratroopers into Pakistan when we feel like it with or without the consent of the Pakistani government. You should ask the Pakistani PEOPLE if they think the USA is an “ally”. I don’t think you’d want your ears uncovered to hear the results of that survey.
    The USA has gotten into the habit of imagining that whenever bad shit happens to us because of our international meddling, we get to violate the sovereignty of whomever we wish. Can you imagine if Germany, one day, just felt like dropping paratroopers into Denver? Or anybody else?
    You’re another one of these military goofballs who still thinks this is the America of 1965 and everybody else is the Soviet Union. WE are the Soviet Union. For example, while we’re itching for regime change in Syria, our closest ally aside from Israel is SAUDI ARABIA … one of the most despotic regimes in the world. Hypocrites R Us.
    We only like Arab despots like Saddam Hussein when they do our bidding. When they stop doing our bidding, as Hussein did, they suddenly become our mortal enemy yet their fundamental character never changed in 3 or 4 decades. Noriega in Panama used to be our fair-haired boy. What happened?
    The United States of America is now one of the most hypocritical, bellicose, and STUPID players in the international arena. And that’s saying something because there’s a lot more stupidity and hypocrisy out there than in bygone days.
    Osama bin Laden will win a posthumous victory because it was his stated goal to run the US into bankruptcy through nattering tactics. Since we’re now well past 100% of GDP as our debt and with a decimated manufacturing base, we’re well on our way to the kind of insolvency seen in Greece, Spain, and Italy.
    Yet we throw our might around the globe like the bully on the block. Russia and China must be soiling their undies with laughter.
    E.

  464. XXX5 September 13, 2012 at 5:10 am #

    You claim that Wilber is deep because he cites the following people:
    Robert Bellah
    Nicholas Berdyaev
    Niels Bohr
    Auguste Comte
    Frederick Crews
    Daniel Dennett
    Jacques Derrida
    Wilhelm Dilthey
    Johann Fichte
    Michel Foucault
    Jean Gebser
    Carol Gilligan
    René Guénon
    Jurgen Habermas
    Martin Heidegger
    William James
    Immanuel Kant
    Thomas Kuhn
    Max Planck
    Sir Karl Popper
    Arthur Schopenauer
    Max Weber
    Alfred North Whitehead
    Ludwig Wittgenstein
    *********************************************
    Many of these guys like Jacques Derrida, are deconstructionists which is an amusing if impenetrable philosophy that espouses the idea that pretty much any interpretation is “valid” and then he issues five hundred disclaimers. A lot of philosophers are just mental masturbators who are either obscurantists trying to appear “deep” (like Heidegger, a Nazi symp) or they couldn’t quite make it as physical scientists so they came up with arcane systems like his “Process Philosophy” which no scientist I know has ever quoted from.
    I think Wilber’s idea of a HOLON is kind of a reworking of ideas he stole from Planck and Bohr to make his bullshit idea about how the mind works sound “scientific”. These goddamned philosophers (I like Zappa’s parodies of them where he calls them “Philostophers”) never contribute to a direct understanding of the universe, the psyche, or the social world and always end up being footnotes in history. They just invent TERMINOLOGY.
    When one thinks of moral codes and real advice to live by, one thinks of Jesus, Buddha, and a few others. When one thinks of understanding the physical universe, one thinks of Bohr, Einstein, Penrose, Pauli, Pauling, and other physical scientists. These moral codes combined with scientific innovation lead to civilization. Philosophers are useless as teats on a boar which is why I only like Nietzsche’s call for the END OF PHILOSOPHY.
    E.

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  466. ozone September 13, 2012 at 7:53 am #

    Headline on nbcnews.com:
    “Middle class relying on food stamps”.
    Alrighty, that’s enough already; if you’re relying on food stamps, it’s a small clue that you’re no longer “middle class”. (Jeebus H., the lengths that the propagandists will go to in order to prevent reality [and its’ cousin, panic] from being revealed.)

  467. ozone September 13, 2012 at 8:07 am #

    Speaking of zeitgeist, last night I had a dream in which it shifted quite dramatically and nearly instantly (a mob psychology kinda thang). Interestingly, in dreams, you know what every other actors’ emotional state is, and just what they’re thinking. (Ha, who’da thunk it?!?)
    Anyway, in a hall-like room with about 30 people, murmuring and muttering began to arise and I thought to myself, “The panic has arrived; they no longer believe this is a Recession with Recovery an elected politician away; they now realize it to be a Permanent Depression with no return to former ease.”
    So I hollered, “The panic is on. What do we do? The first thing is; don’t panic. Think of what we can do for ourselves and each other to prepare.”
    That was pretty much it, and the first time I can recall having dreamt of anything in that direction. (It’s totally out of character as well; I ain’t no leader/organizer.)

  468. orionoir September 13, 2012 at 8:44 am #

    {{chameleon was one of the words}}
    ————
    buck, i have to confess that that one time you liked the post re the chameleon, that’s one of my most treasured compliments. which of course is a terribly self-centered thing for me to say, and also hard to believe on its face, but no lie, you caught me at a low moment and in a very improbable way gave me a bit of a kick.
    the last time i was here i was coming off a towering manic high; as with vertigo, it’s real and it feels real, but it also can feel real bad. here i am again, briefly, in similar straits.
    anyhoo, i tend to generate a torrent of text, good, bad, indifferent, fast water under the damn. sometimes i wonder if there’s any good at all.
    thing is, after you tagged chameleon, i thought to myself, hey, i like that too. that’s not half bad. sometimes discoveries such as these make all the difference.

  469. ozone September 13, 2012 at 8:56 am #

    To devout Yemeni Muslims:
    Are the serial Drone-murders the Will of Allah, and thus to be shrugged at and tolerated?
    …While a stupid amateurish video impugning the motives and sex life of Da Prophet prompts one to violence against the embassy of the Great Satan (deb’bil-guy)?
    [loud clapping of hands]
    Hey, hey-hey, let’s settle down people… Ali? Shaddap and siddown… that’s enough now.
    Okay, [sigh] first order of business: PRIORITIES.

  470. ozone September 13, 2012 at 9:01 am #

    O.,
    I enjoy your spoutings and observations too.
    Does that make me a bad person? ;o)
    (Ps. Glad to hear your health is currently in a “stable” state. I guess that’s all any of us can reasonably hope for.)

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