JHK’s Three-Act Play
Just when America was celebrating the provisional end of BP’s Macondo oil blowout, and getting back to important issues like Kim Kardashian’s body-suit collection, along comes Matthew Simmons with a rather strange and alarming outcry on doings in the Gulf of Mexico that contradicts the mood of renewed festivity, as well as just about every shred of reportage from any media outlet, mainstream or otherwise.
Matt Simmons Houston-based company has been the leading investment bank to the US oil industry for a long time, financing exploration and drilling in places like the Gulf of Mexico. Simmons, 68, recently retired from day-to-day management of the company. For much of the decade he has been what may be described as a peak oil activist. His 2005 book, Twilight in the Desert, warned the public that Saudi Arabia’s oil production had reached its limits and, more generally, that an oil-dependent world was entering a zone of serious trouble over its primary resource. He took this aggressive stance despite risking the ire of the people he did business with.
Matt Simmons is a sober individual and a very nice man (I’ve met him twice over the years), a button-downed corporate executive who’s been around the oil business for forty years. His knowledge is deep and comprehensive. From the beginning of the BP Macondo blowout incident in April, he’s taken the far out position that the well-bore is fatally compromised and that BP has been consistently lying about their operations to stop the flow of oil. Perhaps most radically, Simmons claims that an oil “gusher” is pouring into the Gulf some distance from the drilling site itself.
Last week, Simmons came on Dylan Ratigan’s MSNBC financial show, but he did a longer interview over at the King World News website. (click here for Eric King’s interview with Simmons). Simmons’s current warning about the situation focuses on the gigantic “lake” of crude oil that is pooling under great pressure 4000 to 5000 feet down in the “basement” of the Gulf’s waters. More particularly, he is concerned that a tropical storm will bring this oil up – as tropical storms and hurricanes usually do with deeper cold water – and with it clouds of methane gas that will move toward the Gulf shore and kill a lot of people. (I really don’t know the science on this and welcome any reader to correct me, but I suppose that the oil “lake” deep under the Gulf waters contains a lot of methane gas dissolved at pressure, and that as the oil rises toward the ocean’s surface, and lower pressures, the gas will bubble out of solution.)
Simmons makes two additional points that are pretty radical: he says that several states along the Gulf ought to begin systematic evacuations in counties along the shore now. From his experience in Houston with Hurricane Rita (2005), he says a last-minute evacuation is bound to be a disaster — the highways jammed hopelessly, drivers ran out of gas, and then the gas stations ran out of gas. Based on where the nation’s collective state-of-mind is these days, I can’t imagine that any Gulf state governor or mayor will heed this warning and begin preparing an evacuation now. (The practical problems are obvious for householders but what if it really is a matter of life and death?)
Secondly, Simmons maintains – as he has from near the beginning of the blowout – that the US military should take over operations from BP and ought to set off a “small” nuclear device down in the well-bore to fuse the rock into glass and seal the site permanently. Simmons says, based on his experience growing up in Utah near the government’s underground nuclear testing sites in neighboring Nevada, where scores of very large atomic bombs were set off for years with no measurable consequences above ground, that a small nuclear explosion down in the Macondo well is unlikely to have any effect above the undersea rock surface. I have no idea, personally if this is true.
Matt Simmons is taking a position so “out there” that even the radical peak oil website TheOilDrum.com won’t comment on his remarks (at least not as of early Monday morning July 19). I don’t know how to evaluate Simmons’s contentions myself, except to say that I don’t believe Simmons is a nut, or that he’s lost his marbles. We also must suppose that someone in his position is able to talk with an awful lot of the best people in the oil industry. Simmons has put his reputation on the line. A lot of bystanders and commentators are treating him as a fool. Simmons himself is painfully aware of his lonely stance and seems, in his public appearances, to be a very regretful messenger.
In the past twenty-four hours, BP has reported some possible leaks coming out of the seabed some distance from the well-bore. Nobody has been able to confirm yet exactly what is happening down there. One other thing Simmons said is that BP should be barred from the media airwaves since, he says, they have lied consistently in order to cover up their criminal negligence and culpability. The company itself cannot be saved because the claims against it are much greater than the value of its assets – but the people running the company could be sent to jail, so the incentive to keep lying remains high.
Jesse at the Jesse’s Café Américain website makes an excellent point that if Matt Simmons is correct, and it turns out that the US government has been played by BP, then remaining public trust in the competence and legitimacy of government could evaporate. This is not a happy thing to contemplate at a time when the state of the nation and its economy are so fragile. What follows could make the current political situation seem like little more than, well, than a tea party, compared to the politics-to-come.
Readers here at Clusterfuck Nation are probably well aware of my past declarations of being allergic to conspiracy theories and crazy ideas generally. I’m not really equipped to evaluate Matt Simmons’s warnings about the exact nature of the Macondo blowout and what might happen in the months ahead. But I am confident, having met the guy and corresponded with him and read his books, that he is a straight shooter. I’m sure that he is sincere in proclaiming his extreme discomfort with the position he’s taken. Listen and decide for yourselves. (Simmons interview with Eric King)
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First!
The real bottom line ? The value of homes, the value of commercial property, the value of real estate: these values have been blowed up way out of proportion starting from the JAPAN of the 1980s, most of the European Union and the USA from the 1970s to present. These values have been way above average salaries, have no correspondence to the reality of what people make and more alarmingly so, what people will possibly make in the future. These values like house above 200,000 dollars in California, 2 bedroom homes in London of 400,000 dollars etc. are completely bogus, imaginary, impossible to be real and in fact are not real. These home values have been inflated way beyond reality for three reasons:
1) To make people “feel rich”, to give them an illusion of how rich they are and how much money they could “cash in” when they “sell” (as if it is so automatic and easy to sell in any possible future ignoring how everything can possibly change in the future);
2) To find some kind of investment for the 80 trillion dollars of profit money hanging around in the world not knowing what to do, to find some kind of magical return, return on investment, profit for money just sitting in a room. Now I feel the entire concept of investment and profit is mostly a farce, bogus, unreal, is a make believe fantasy, magical thinking gimick: investments can be made and profits and money can be made in certain areas (apple with their ipad), chinese factories turning out products by paying their workers 200 dollars a month, etc: but the bottom line is that most profits are made by giving less money to some actors and skinning off more for the owner’s class. Not much by “innovation”. But they found a great “innovation”: make real estate values and prices blow up forever, and make people believe and pay ever higher prices for these homes, for this basic good everyone needs, and let them pay by borrowing from the “future”.
3) Convince everyone that there is a “population explosion”, that housing is scarce, that you have to get your “own house” before the “resources run out”. In fact most nations are undergoing a flat population growth, some are going backwards, the future is not in resource scarcity, there are and will be any number of homes available to anyone. They are mostly kept off the market, they are mostly fake scarcities due to the fact that the jobs are all in hot areas so everyone wants a home in the hot areas and the prices go sky high.
The prices of homes in the developed world most go WAY DOWN, like not more than 100,000 dollars for a 2 bedroom whether in JAPAN, UK or California. Because the future “work” that people will need to pay these homes will not and cannot pay salaries of more than 500 to 1000 dollars a month: there is no reason to pay white collars workers in Los Angeles or London more than can be paid a guy in Sao Paolo, Brazil or Jakarta, Indonesia. In these places a dude will readily accept 800 dollars a month, is more disciplined and better educated and will be very happy to make such a “high salary as perceived by them”. This is the future reality.
We must remember that evaluating this incident as an “incident” is foolish. This was the result of decades of risk accumulation during oil industry operations. Leaked and spilled contaminants are the unacknowledged “nuclear waste” of the fossil fuel industry. The cover-ups have become so elaborate over the decades, they would restore your belief in conspiracy theories if disclosed.
http://hurricanekatrinakaif.com
Matt is getting too extreme with the whole nuclear seal-off bid; I mean if we don’t have the capacity to put a cap on the well with any degree of competence, how can we be expected to safely execute a nuclear detonation at those depths? It’s never been done before and is therefore too risky.
But there’s no doubt the well has been compromised and BP wants to play the “cap is working” drama just long enough to shift the blame of the next consequential disaster elsewhere. And given the current state of government, they’d get away with it too. Don’t think for a moment that BP won’t survive this. BP would, the gulf wouldn’t.
Jim, sometimes very smart people from one field can get way out of their depth in another. I’ve been following The Oil Drum closely and there are really knowledgeable people on there. They ask up front that people read back posts before suggesting any harebrained schemes like nuking the well. The whole problem with the sea bed is that is exactly not rock. It’s more like quicksand. And if there is oil and methane escaping the bore, it’s seeping into that, gradually making it soupier and less able to hold up what’s basically a very long telescoping flagpole. My climate change hero, James Lovelock has a pet peeve about organic agriculture and water pollution, so he says a key solution to the food supply problem would be Quorn. That’s chicken-like nuggets made from fungus. This is a bad idea from a world-class genius.
Lynn
http://www.10in10diet.com/
Diet for a small footprint and a small grocery bill.
Well, there’s the whole matter of Simmons shorting BP, so take him with a grain of salt.
According to this blog, BP has breached a massive high pressure bubble of methane that can no longer be sealed by any means. The massive amounts of methane will eventually escape into the atmosphere, rise to concentrations of 5%, at which point lighting will ignite the gas causing monstrous explosions that will kill millions. Think air-fuel bombs of the type the Russians used to incinerate Grozny, only on a much larger scale.
http://www.helium.com/items/1882339-doomsday-how-bp-gulf-disaster-may-have-triggered-a-world-killing-event
This is what it would take. To turn this country around, to turn it against big oil. A disaster with bodies in the streets, so horrific that Americans will wake up from their slumber and be ready to fight. As we have before.
It is foolish to believe anything BP, the government, or the media are telling us. There have been so many lies and coverups regarding the oil volcano that for them to start telling the truth is impossible.
Saying it is capped and oil isn’t spewing anymore takes it off the front page of ABCNNBCBS so we can forget about it and go on with our oblivious, distracted lives.
I’m no expert, but some (IMO) halfway rational observations: The hazard from a nuke would be dependent upon the geology in the lower mile of the hole. Geologists would be able to determine that from the material which came up with the drilling–originally or with the relief-well effort.
If the cap doesn’t work, and no nuke is used, it seems to me that the only way to stop the flow would be to reduce the gas pressure. I see no way to do that but to play, “Drill, baby, drill,” and get as many producing wells going as possible. Accelerate the usual depletion as much as possible.
I don’t whether Matt Simmons’ ideas about the Gulf are lunatic or not, but I do know he has a truly lunatic idea that we can convert ocean energy into liquid ammonia and convert our cars to run on liquid ammonia. This is true lunacy because ammonia is highly toxic. Not only would I never want to be in an ammonia fueled vehicle, I’d never want to live any where near someone who did. Even a small leak in the fuel system of an ammonia fueled vehicle could kill or injure an entire neighborhood.
Simmons has been promoting this ammonia idea for years and has funded a research effort in Maine to break it to fruition.
I wouldn’t exactly call the mistakes with the Deepwater Horizon as conspiracy thinking as more a series of accidents, every step created and made worse by Corporate and Corporate-owned-government malfeasance. The conspiracy (if any, to make this Kunstler Friendly) is what led to this in the first place.
And I do believe that we have indeed unleashed forces that we can’t control. The fact that the stuff coming out this time is red instead of black (proof of Abiotic Oil, perhaps?) points to this, in my opinion.
And as a further note, my belief in Abiotic Oil doesn’t make me a “Cornucopian.” To me, we’d have to see the Texas Oil Fields rebuild (or, for that matter, I’ll take the oil well underneath the Oklahoma State Capitol Building being recommissioned) before Abiotic Oil become Cornucopia Theory.
Matt Simmons is in the same position as the Morton Thiokol engineer who knew that cold o-rings would cause the space shuttle to blow up in 1986. Most people watched the explosion dumbfounded while this guy sat on the floor and cried knowing full well what had just happened and why. People ignore inconvenient facts or painful truths, such as the realization that the Gulf of Mexico is likely dead for our children’s lifetimes and maybe beyond.
Sobering bit today, Jim.
One has to wonder if BP won’t use its mammoth resources to “wag the dog,” by funding some nastiness halfway around the globe – as a way to get our eyes off the tar ball…
And is it just me, or shouldn’t this event have the transparency of say, a NASA mission? (realizing of course that they weren’t all THAT transparent..) But, at the very least, instead of a live shot of oil gushing on the ocean floor, I’d like a live shot of the joint Guvment/BP command center. OK. Just musing.
I nearly never watch TV news, so perhaps someone else can clarify this for me, but has the MSM (on any level) asked the question; “why if” these caps don’t work? Have they asked, “Is the well structurally damaged deeper down?” Just curious
Pilt
“To turn this country around, to turn it against big oil. A disaster with bodies in the streets, so horrific that Americans will wake up from their slumber and be ready to fight.”
That will be a fight for a much lower standard of living. No more automobiles, no more air travel, much higher prices for consumer goods delivered by fossil fuel powered transport.
How much carnage would it take for people to voluntarily go from prosperity to poverty? A great deal, I suspect.
I’m a geophysicist, although not a petroleum geophysicist. What maybe there is a large reservoir of gas and oil, perhaps cubic kilometers in volume (try getting your head around that one), although this information is usually closely guarded. The product is held in porous rock, within in the pore spaces (5-10% of the total volume). When oil is pumped under normal circumstances, by applying a negative pressure to the well, which the oil and gas migrate to because of the lowered pressure in the well bore induced from the pumping.
In the case of this well, the pressure is coming from the formation (the porous rock, and this is what is pushing the gas/oil out. Until this pressure is released, (the pressure in the formation equals the pressure out of the formation), it will continue to spew. This one apparently has rather high pore pressure and volume, and what’s come out so far is an indication of the amount of gas phase, and the porosity.
Yeah, Bobby, this formation certainly rates high for the 3 Ps for oil production. Which is why I suggested extensive drilling…
The utility of a nuke, seems to me, would depend on the geology of whatever formation overlies the oil-bearing formation.
Matt Simmons was also part of Dick “shoot your friend in the face” Cheney’s secret energy task force that met in the White House in the spring of 2001. At that time Simmons was well aware of the situation in Saudi Arabia and threats to oil supply. Can you imagine Simmons sitting in those meetings and not putting out a forceful argument for peak oil? Cheney as former CEO of Halliburton should have known as well, and for the CEOs of American Auto manufactures, who were busy building gas guzzling SUVs, not to have known this would be the height of corporate hubris. what did the Bush administration do with this info? Continue with the status quo: seek more supply, soft pedal conservation, avoid increasing CAFE standards, eventually take the country to war in Iraq, where they could pump a barrel of oil for 50 cents from the largest untapped reserve known and eventually issue a lame statement about America being “addicted to oil” with out any further discussion of what the implications of that means. I am not into conspiracies either but to know of a situation and not have the guts to confront is tragic as we see looking at our current situation with economy, unemployment and foreign wars…. Moe
In one of his first interviews as well as one 2 months into the disaster Matt Simmons made the simple statement and calculation that given the diameter of the pipe there is no way that the volume of oil escaping is just coming out of the relatively small pipe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gHJbVLRW5Q&feature=related
OR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKLaBOeHqdY
The BP oil spill has changed the Gulf of Mexico forever. For years into the future oil and other intermediate oil dispersion chemicals will surface or wash up on shore.
From now on, it will be impossible in most cases to identify the sources of oil or other contaminiates. Future operations are “free” to go about their business knowing that no one can blame their particular operations for oil appearing in any number of hundreds of square miles.
It seems that the first thing to do is to send ROVs down
into the depths of the Gulf and see if that pool of oil and methane is there or not. The US Navy could do this, or several oceanographic institutions, like Woods Hole.
In retrospect, it appears to have been a very stupid move to give BP or anyone else a license to drill at such depths in US territorial waters. Rather than placing blame mainly on BP, we should be directing our national ire at those regulators who gave them the permit.
Jim’s reasoning appears sound, although a comment noting the Matt Simmons is short BP stock raises some concern that his radical position is just a well-concealed self-interested PR move to drive down their stock price. We can hope that’s all it is.
This is disturbing news for a Monday morning, but I suppose we should get used to it. Our government has been playing fast and loose with our environment and thinks nothing of killing hundreds of thousands of people in a clumsy quest to secure oil supplies in the Middle East, why wouldn’t something as catastrophic as this occur to remind us that “chickens come home to roost, eventually”.
We can only pray that the outcome is not as bad as Simmons has predicted. Sometimes we do get lucky even though we don’t deserve it.
The silver lining in this crisis, if there is one, is that “if Matt Simmons is correct, and it turns out that the US government has been played by BP, then remaining public trust in the competence and legitimacy of government could evaporate.”
The handling of the Katrina fiasco should have destroyed any public confidence in government, except that people were able to blame it on the Republican administration at the time. That misses the point that government at that level of abstraction is quite dependably incompetent.
We all need to consider how our dependence on our big corrupted government has endangered our health in matters such as the subsidized, unnatural foods we are encouraged to eat, the weird neurological poisons the FDA permits the food industry to sell as artificial sweeteners(the excitotoxin Aspartame).
We need to secure our health from a similar dependence on incompetent regulators who are charged with providing us with safe food and drugs.
Let’s not get too distracted by government mishandling of oil leases in the Gulf, when there are ways we are all at risk from an oil-dependent food supply and now, a federally-managed health care system.
A general loss of faith that our benevolent government is looking out for us would be the best take-away message from this latest instance of federally-regulated idiocy.
http://www.healthyplanetdiet.com for more ways on how you can secure your family’s health during “The Long Emergency”.
iteresting talk on the nuke option-used to supply drilling mud(and to the oil industry) to the Nevada test site where over 800 nukes were tested underground-we used to laugh about all the money and effort being spent to wipe out the world-this goes back over 35 years-there is no way we can go another 10 years without above ground “testing” of these weapons-love the ones that matter to you-it is the only thing that really counts-anything else is a waste of effort-i am sorry that my kids,their families and their friends will not have the life i enjoyed…..
Matt Simmons is a very believable authority of the oil industry and has worked as an investment banker servicing oil company transactions for forty years. He was an advisor to “W”, so you know Cheney liked him for that.
Beyond this catastrophic event in the Gulf, Simmons has made some solid assessments about the trouble the oil industry is in.
In a recent interview (May ’10) with Jay Taylor, Simmons outlined some oil industry issues ranging from poor and crumbling oil refineries worldwide and the $100 trillion it would take to rebuild 60% of the global oil infrastructure. This would force prices upward. Not to mention that there’s a water scarcity and oil refining requires three gallons of water to one gallon of oil. Sounds a bit daunting, doesn’t it?
He claims that two-thirds of the present engineers will be retiring in the next 5-7 years and laments that the new crop of technicians who were supposed to fill their shoes were recently fired due to the economy.
He questions the veracity of the Saudi claims of oil supply and describes the Iran and Iraqi fields to be too old to produce predicted quantities of oil to fill global needs.
So what the ____ was the Iraqi war all about? All these transnational oil companies from Russia, China etc. have dibs on the Iraqi oil fields. He doesn’t expect much increase in yields in the future. Is this going to come as a nasty surprise after they backed our preemptive war?
The demand from China and India is exacerbating supply and demand, as we all know, warping the global situation even more.
So back to BP. This morning I turned on MSNBC to be hit with a real PR message from BP. Well in some ways this PR campaign could backfire as it is common knowledge that they have been trying to control the message with no independent journalism.
They have already lost their credibility and the idea of pushing oil down to lower depths of water through dispersants and the idea that oil could be gushing out of the gulf floor, reminds me of the old “If a tree falls in the woods….”
What you don’t see can’t hurt you until it does….
‘Out there’is an adequate description of this crazy scenario. The idea that a nuclear device will neatly seal the leaking well in a nice, tight glass slag is wrong-headed. Plus, I can’t imagine Obama giving the go-ahead on this idea over the nearly at its destination relief well. This ‘lake’ of petroleum at the bottom of the ocean waiting to be stirred up by the next hurricane is equally out there. Jim, please stick to what you know and do best.
I can only imagine that the nuclear option is not on the table right now and that is would take many months of planning to even consider it an option.
If as Simmons says, a giant cloud of Methane is pooling down there, ready to rise up in a conflagration of Biblical proportions, the powers that be will plead ignorance and surprise if it actually blows.
Regardless of what happens we will be living with this disaster forever. I saw a White Hummer limo gassing up yesterday. Nothing has changed… yet.
Aimlow Joe was here.
http://www.aimlow.com
Driving is so over rated. I’ve been unemployed for a bit. Sitting still and watching the largely purposeless mechanization of the world is the cat’s meow… It’s also very perplexing.
Half the people that go to “work” sit and play online all day. Cops flirting with girls via iPhone applications. People playing facebook games while at their desk jobs.
What if a nuke caused a bigger explosion or an even bigger hole that can’t be filled. The only holes that big are the ones in the middle of the majority of materialistic American women’s hearts. This of course does not include the girls who are good with money and know how to smile and bake cookies.
Seriously though. This oil thing is bad. Our legal systems are terrible. The profit motive has to go or be reinvented. Profit should mean profit for the good of man and the Earth instead of ones wallet. Maybe its all JP Morgan’s fault when he didn’t allow Tesla technologies to come to market. What IS electricity *really*? Think about it. Most of it comes from the void. Electromagnetism and electricity make everything go including humans at a subatomic level. Why can we not tap these things differently? When will they ever turn on the giant laser facility to perform fusion? One BB of gold in fusion generates enough energy to power the US for a year. Consider the whimsical nature of that. A single BB. All that power. Where does it all hide? The physicists know. Are they keeping secrets? Where are Tesla technologies now?
You think the oil is bad you might want to look into some of this country’s artificially intelligent death machines they are developing. WHY?!? Who do we have left to kill or destroy? Are we all retarded? The biggest issue in the world is remediating human psychology and perspectives at every point in the stack.
Companies don’t even bother to optimize their employee base logistically (commutes). It’s all pretty simple to optimize our reality. Put resources and sustainability closer to where people live in newly engineered communities but no one wants to do it. Our farmers could serve as open land to build these communities to start but then we’d need to actively remediate the ones that are already standing.
I’ve read Matt Simmons’ book “Twilight In The Desert”, and have listened to him on the subject of PO. I also think he’s been credible and accurate on that issue. Notice that recently the Saudis made a statement saying they would “halt oil exploration to save remaining reserves for future generations.” They’ve basically acknowledged what he’s been saying all along. So, he’s a credible person in that respect. The Gulf situation I don’t know. He keeps saying there’s a bigger leak 7 miles away that’s not only leaking oil, but methane gas which will result in the deaths of millions. If that’s true, and it may well be so, more concrete data on his part is required to be taken seriously. Otherwise, he comes off sounding like a crackpot.
Good job this week, JHK!
I just got back from the Gulf from a family business/reunion trip that we’ve been taking for over 50 years. I’ll try to file a complete post about my observations from the Gulf later on in the week. It is both better and worse than is reported in the “news.”
To address “What If He’s Right,” try the following. Mr. Simmons seems to be an advocate of extreme positions regarding energy. I’m enough of a scientist to understand the underlying physics and chemistry. I can rate his catastrophe ideas as “plausible and understandable,” and at the same time rate some of them as “unlikely to occur.”
In the short term, regarding this “spill”, if Simmons is right then we as a Nation face a huge disaster that might wake us up to the nasty things the oil economy is forcing us to do to the planet and ourselves. These things are nasty from an environmental and a political standpoint.
In the long term, Simmons has a higher chance of being right sometime over the next 50 years as oil drilling moves into more extreme environments.
I think that is the view we need to take. Eventually, oil will be GONE as an energy source.
It would benefit the US of A tremendously if we could face that fact with resolve and a plan for the future.
“Oil is cheap because we steal it from our kids.”
Jim, I have long been a fan of Matt and have always thought he was a straight shooter as well. But now that he has stepped down or perhaps was forced out, his pronouncements have gotten a bit strident. I will continue to listen to him but the circumstances of his departure from Simmons and Co give me pause. His idea of nuking the well is one of the comments that gave me pause. He says the Russians have used it successfully to cap blowouts in central Asia in the 60’s. True enough but those were gas wells ON LAND. They were not oil wells miles deep. No one knows what would happen if it were tried in deep ocean. If the formation is leaking oil elsewhere, I would fear that an explosion could increase the chance of a truly catastrophic ocean floor blowout given that oil and water are incompressible. Only one way to find out. Ask Jindal and the other southern goon governors if they want to give it a shot! At this point no one is in control of this bad situation and the danger of thinking “dammit DO sumthin! Anything!” is probably a greater danger than letting BP muddle along doing the best it can, which so far hasn’t been very inspiring.
“Simmons has put his reputation on the line. A lot of bystanders and commentators are treating him as a fool.”
This will play into the hands of industry shills like Daniel Yergin and all the cheese-doodle-eating buffoons who believe that oil is infinite if we just drill enough.
But if Simmons were correct about the methane bubble and its potential–forget the nuke business, which seems very dicey–he’d be the greatest Cassandra of human history.
I love Simmons’ book and have great respect for him, but even at the risk of him being discredited, I really, really hope he’s wrong on this.
This is the stuff of an SF novel already; I hope the denouement is not post-apocalyptic.
1) As Fissile has astutely pointed out, Matthew “if global warming is real” Simmons is not the only source for this potential story.
2) Matthew “if global warming is real” Simmons is as sober as any other global warming “skeptic”, which is to say, not very.
But The Peak Community (TPC) is–unfortunately, unconscionably, offensively and counterproductively–awash with global warming deniers and nine eleven was an inside job moonbats. TPC revels in this brand of pseudoscientific, brains falling out of head “open mindedness”.
3) This morning Chris Hedges spoke truth to the Matthew “if global warming is real” Simmons corporate-scum of this dying world:
“The leaders of these corporations now determine our fate. They are not endowed with human decency or compassion. Yet their lobbyists make the laws. Their public relations firms craft the propaganda and trivia pumped out through systems of mass communication. Their money determines elections. Their greed turns workers into global serfs and our planet into a wasteland.
“As climate change advances we will face a choice between obeying the rules put in place by corporations or rebellion. Those who work human beings to death in overcrowded factories in China and turn the Gulf of Mexico into a dead zone are the enemy. They serve systems of death. They cannot be reformed or trusted.”
Having a big conflagration down in the Gulf would be a fitting consequence to our collective hubris. Yeah, it’s convenient to blame BP and the government for the current tragedy and the sword of Damocles that now hangs over our heads. Take a look around. Behold our profligate use of oil. So now we discover that we’ve been burning the stairs for firewood (just like in the ‘hood). Fact is, we are all complicit in this tragedy, one way or another.
This whole “oil spill” thing is far out there, and so much of the info surrounding it is either conjecture or guess work.
Does anyone know about or have a map of the sub surface rock strata? What are the dimensions of the reservoir? How many feet down does one need to go to find a contiguous layer of rock?
Why did BP choose this location for the “horizon?”
Where else did they consider drilling? Where were they going to drill next? What do they know about those areas? What does the “scientific community” know about this area? What independent information sources exist?
C’mon, at some point someone should get big Don Rumsfield (or Simmons) out here to tell us about the “known unknowns” and “””unknown unknowns…..”””
Clusterfuck indeed!
The summary given here understates the wildness of the claims Matt Simmons has made. Far beyond saying that “the well-bore is fatally compromised”, Simmons wrote that the well blew out completely and that the current activity is at a replica well head some miles from the real well.
The lake of oil Simmons describes is hidden from direct examination by water a mile deep. The location of the well head is not. I’m having trouble understanding how the well could have moved six miles without anyone noticing, in this day and age when GPS and satellite images can be used to locate anything on the surface of the planet within a few feet.
imo…BP is/has been spewing more BS than the Macondo has oil and the US gov is more likely complicit than being played.
Even if Matt Simmons is short BP and attempting to influence stock price, there are surely other tactics available to him besides making these “bizarre” claims. I can’t believe that is what he wants as his legacy. He has always seemed a straight shooter to me as well though I certainly have much less to base it on than Mr. K. Makes his statements all the more worrisome. I have read that other scientists have made similar statements. If that’s true, I guess they are short BP too.
Zen17, I also believe that BP, the US gov and the media all desperately want this story to go away. Of course they do. This time though, they may not get their wish.
Jim from Watkins Glen, Your post gave me a chill.
“It seems that the first thing to do is to send ROVs down into the depths of the Gulf and see if that pool of oil and methane is there or not.”
They have probably done that… If millions of people in Gulf States are in harms’ way, moving us out would result in financial chaos. How far would you move of millions of people? Where would you house them? Not in my back yard yells Middle America. Who would pay for their housing and policing of the displaced?
And the biggest issue. Real estate in most of the southern US would go to $ zero. The truth is that banks are insolvent now but legally hiding that fact off the books hoping R/E will come back before they actually have to book those real losses. Wiping out that much R/E in one shot would crush the banks and probably the global financial system.
With all that you have witnessed since October 2008 who do you think is really more important to our leaders, the people or bankers?
I live in Florida; we will never be warned of impending disaster because to do so will hurt the profit margins of the financially powerful.
I have a question about this possible deep pool of oil & methane with its accompanying dead zones and oxygen depletion. How much gunk with density different from sea water does it take to disrupt the thermo-haline climate conveyor in the Atlantic?? I’ve read that a suddenly breaking glacial ice dam could let a mass of fresh water gush in and mess up the flow and cause an ice age in northern Europe. I know I’m putting it rather simply, but I’m just a simple cave man… How about it, climate experts?
What Nassin Nicholas imagined as a philosophical metaphor will become like a prophecy. The Black Swan, indeed.
And also, Edgar Allen Poe’s raven, will in retrospect, be seen as prophecy. “Nevermore!”
The oil-covered bird, our grim reaper.
Greetings from the UK Jim…
Well Dave Cameroon PM our (newish) ‘big society’ focused leader will go, cap-in-hand to have chats with the great Obama man this week out there in DC about going ‘easy’ on that ole english energy company (BP)…. for western focused energy-security autonomy stakes… and lets lay off that Libyan connection right?…
(We don’t want those pesky Chinese muscling in on the act any more than is necessary now do we?)
And therein lives the inescapable problem….no matter how bad things get for the ole stalwart and shrinking western OECD economies all neatly brand aligned and market product Starbucks/Coke/KFC/MacD’s/BurgerKing/PizzaHut focused…
(Tis still boom-time and catch-up with ‘I’m worth it’ consumerism over there in the east an Asia)
So let’s all pray the rumours about one elephant field to come are right….out there in East Africa…. in which case a black Commander-in-Chief with intact African heritage starts to make some kinda Madison Avenue sense now doesn’t it?….lol. Defo, if it buys some extra oil-driven divertissements time! Hummer H3 anybody?
(Come what may the clock for serious oil supply hick-ups still keeps ticking)
And with it, the serious central banking easy money going, going, gone and being totally squandered scenario…. even if we could, right here, right now – just do it – with that badly needed new green ‘infrastructure’… tis very likely now the real chance for a smooth and orderly transition tis long gone…unplanned for emergencies, just like run-away-dysentry-sh#t will increasingly happen.
If sensible (some) tiny % of folks will have already factored these sobering realities in bye now, headed off the beaten track, and will be forming capable share-ware and low-tech based multi-skilled small sustainable resilient communities…
Awaiting the inevitable apocalypse, god forbid false-flag generated (for the reduced collective greater goods enhanced survival benefit)
For those sheeple that haven’t twigged, and that are still distracted by garden of facebook delights, silicone twitter enhancements, and jiminy-cricket hollywood wished for fantasy…well a more likely Hieronymus Bosch end me thinks awaits…
And it will be too late to whine-n-scream…. (where were the warnings)
They’re staring right at you folks….
It’s hard to believe that a massive killing off of Floridians would change American’s “way of life”.
Over 40,000 Americans a year, year after year after year, die in horrible crashes, with many more maimed, paralyzed and brain damaged.
After 9-11 “when everything changed”, nothing changed in the oil consumption department, just the free country department.
The US has spent the lives of over 5,000 American troops since 9-11, without any visible consternation among the rest of us.
As to whether a methane bubble would make it intact to Florida – how long has it taken for the oil to hit the beaches, and is it intact?
I don’t know the physics of methane bubbles, but Florida is a long way from the rupture, and air currents are even more volatile than ocean currents. I would assume that it would be diffused by the time it hit Florida.
Although if it gets Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris, hmmmm, there are upsides to every calamity.
“Oil is cheap because we steal it from our kids.”
By George, I think you’ve got it!!
Today’s post had me scouring the web, but I can’t find any information about Kim Kardashian’s body-suit collection. Do you have a link?
Most people could pay attention to the smart advice if they could read but they might be too busy at the ball game buying peanuts and popcorn as per the programming schedule. Stay tuned we’ll be right back with a message from your sponsors.
Matt Simmons should stick to investment banking, because engineering and science are obviously not his forte. First of all, putting a nuclear bomb into the borehole would create more than just heat sufficient to fuse rock. The blast would also create a massive shockwave, the force of which would fracture rock for a great distance around the well. Metaphorically speaking, instead of the oil now spewing up through a small straw, it would then be seeping up through the entire surface area a large sponge. You tell me which is easier to contain. It is critical to maintain the geological integrity of the rock formation and seal the pipe. Although I will say that BP’s solution of just “capping” the pipe is almost as idiotic. The damn well needs to be PLUGGED not capped. I guarantee that this “cap” will fail in short order. The only question is “when?”.
Ha! Awesome.
So much for our ‘special’ relationship. Btwn BP, Britain pulling out of Afghanistan and Robert Fisk’s latest article on the ‘unctuous’ ‘groveling’ Obama, it certainly explains away the quotation marks.
Sad, sad situation. I really wish a solution loomed just around the corner….haven’t had a car for 8 years, but will rent one tomorrow, then return it the following day…at least that….
I wonder… If there WAS a methane release from a tropical storm or hurricane, would the robust and widespread wind patterns of the storm sufficiently disperse the methane to mitigate the loss of any life?
I also wonder if Mr. Simmons is trying to further crash the Gulf real estate market so he can make some low cost purchases? I mean, come on people, he is an investment banker for the oil industry for crissake. This isn’t a concerned government scientist we are talking about. Given his profession and background, people should be skeptical of his claims.
Although Mr. Simmons may be a nice and usually sober-minded man and one knowledgeable in the mechanics of oil industry investing and in the state of many oil fields, he is not thereby either a geologist, or a chemist, or a nuclear scientist specialized in nuclear detonations carried out under thousands of feet of water.
Let me add here that nuclear detonations always have to be tested when carried out in new environments, for their effects cannot be predicted with certainty.
To me, there is no doubt and no hesitation: Mr. Simmons has clearly over-stepped his bounds, and that is sufficient to take away some of the nice credibility he had acquired over his years as a peak oil activist.
It is not responsible of a man such as him to issue pronouncements the soundedness of which it is not within his competencies to guarantee.
There have many a person who have had a keen awareness to something very important thought to be crazy. I don’t know if that applies to Mr. Simmons or not. It appears he has had wild ideas.
Nuking the hole–what would that create? The Russians have said that their experience with doing it has been only partially successful. And, that was only on land. This idea would be under the high pressures, and extreme temperatures beneath the sea floor.
Would it fracture the rock formations surrounding the deep cavern allowing the oil and gas to find other areas to pool, escape, and rise to the surface?
If Mr. Simmons is correct, and the instability of the well bore is true, and I believe it is, too, then look out.
Why is BP allowed to continue to speak out in the media? That should have been stopped from the beginning. It would be like Tony Soprano, after being suspected of blowing up stuff resulting in death and destruction, to have a public voice.
http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com
Roger Boisjoly of Morton Thiokol was an engineer deeply immersed in the technical data of the design. By contrast, Matt Simmons is an investment banker giving advice on how a nuclear fission reaction affects the fusing and fracturing of rock formations. I would argue that one of these men is discussing topics well beyond their expertise, and that any similarities are fleeting.
How bout that global warming? Too hot to sit around and worry. My theory is the well was running out of moxie so they put the cap on it for show. Go BP!!!
Now as a girl who knows how to smile and bake cookies I realize I am treading in dangerous waters with this comment, but still…
It amazes me how many men out there feel qualified to make pronouncements about the oil spill, underwater nuclear fixes etc etc.
Gee, you guys are just so smart! I noticed the same solid confidence emanating from my 10 year old grandson recently, and marvelled at how young you males start with the bull shit.
That’s all, I’ll return to the kitchen now. Anybody want a sandwich?
“and it turns out that the US government has been played by BP, then remaining public trust in the competence and legitimacy of government could evaporate.”
the government is never allowed to act competently and assert their legitimacy because the right wing noise machine and the teabaggers are so enamored with private industry “self-regulation.” so why blame the government for something that they were asked to cede responsiblity for in the first place? foolish.
Remember that line from the old Stevie Wonder hit “when you believe in things you don’t understand, then you suffer, superstition aint the way.” So much of what the typical American believes, from the fairy tale of “free market” economics to the magical belief that technology can cure all our ills, that it makes one wonder if will even recognize reality when it finally bitch-slaps us across our heads and we find ourselves living in the 14th century again.
I think the two-relief-well strategy is kind of weird as well. The only “real way” to contain ALL leaks from the reservoir is to “drill-baby-drill.”
As long as we “need the oil” anyway, why aren’t companies lining up to “suck this sucker dry?”
As long as production is lessened in another area, the overall effect of having ten rigs pumping in the area of the leak is nil.
And like I said, no one will be wiser as to who is spilling what anyway, so why not get in there and turn a profit if you can? This “single company response” to a spill that will affect the entire industry is sort of feeble in retrospect.
It is not responsible of [Simmons] to issue pronouncements the soundedness of which it is not within his competencies to guarantee.
Rubbish. Prior to 4/20, BP and Transocean were regarded as two of the most competent deepwater drillers. Testimony before the USCG board of inquiry established that BP shore engineers and offshore “company men” ignored known risks, cut corners, and put an inexperienced junior [who pled the 5th] in charge of a crucial test that resulted in loss of well control. Personnel on the drilling floor and in charge of BOP maintenance and mud pumping were rural high school educated “oilfield trash” who couldn’t dare buck BP orders, however irrational.
There’s more to this story than you appreciate. Simmons has a network of trusted friends in the oil patch who know exactly what happened at Macondo.
There is indeed more to this story than meets the eye. You have to remember that the power elite have a vested interest in not divulging information. Information is power. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. What we are seeing evolve (devolve?) is our collective spirits (heaven help us) blacken like the thick stench spewing forth in the Gulf. B.P. has the U.S. government in its hip pocket. And if you think our government isn’t aware of B.P.’s quaint little shennanigans, you haven’t been paying attention, since, oh, I don’t know, 1930? Everything from your gas propelled lawn mower (no carbon controls on that, thanks so much) to your glorious Hummer all have their precious parts in this tidy, summer drama.
Response to Mr. Kemp:
Speaking of the Katrina fiasco, I agree the Federal government displayed total incompetence. General Honere’ not withstanding.
Which leads me to wonder each April 15th, why are we paying so much to operate the feds when we could be funding our state? Flip the tax bill. I am sure states would love it. Individual states could accomplish much more, with much closer oversight from more local citizens.
BP is pressure-checking the well bore for leaks. If the well bore was damaged during the initial explosion, then the leak will continue not the top of the riser, but through various cracks and fissures in the surrounding geology. If the well bore is damaged, it is possible to have a leak going for a long time indeed (until the reservoir pressure is capped naturally by the water pressure). Maybe this is what Matt Simmons is simply commenting on.
If the cap is oozing already, it’s probably going to get worse as the pressure builds. It’s not going to get any better. And if the well is plugged? Will that relieve all of the pressure that will press against the now compromised sea floor? We’ve made a bargain with the Devil by drilling the thing to begin with – we may have to go through with the deal and keep letting it flow in a contolled fashion. If not, we risk endless seepage if not a new geyser.
What if he’s wrong?
Jim, thanks for this candor:
I think that applies to most of us in the Clusterfuck Nation, especially since most of us have never met Mr. Simmons.
Simmons spoke at the Offshore Technology Conference (OTC) in Houston in 2009 saying the world is approaching “peak everything.” He took his idea of resources dwindling and applied it to humans, saying that even the shortage in people was getting serious. In regard to [then] current economic woes, Simmons said:
In light of the fact that last year [in 2008] at OTC he said that “oil would go through $200 like a hot knife through butter,” it should not be a shock that Mr. Simmons said:
Mr. Simmons then said that high oil prices failed to dampen demand. He went on to justify his $140-is-a-low-price theme by saying that “prices were not high enough to attract hordes of new hires that were needed.”
When asked to offer solutions to current crises, Mr. Simmons advocated for living in a post-peak oil and gas world. He then enumerated what this means: liberate the work force by eliminating long-distance commuting and let people work at home; grow food locally to substantially limit how much petroleum is involved in food supply; and redesign a new fleet of seafaring vessels to ship people and goods by water.
Great comment, Moe!
Of course our Republican-lite President Obama would say: “we must not look back” much less punish the criminals who ran the country into ruin for their personal gain.
JHK, I’m a physicist and I know some chemistry. Simmons is out of his tree. There is no methane catastrophe pending. In fact most of the leaked oil will never be found. Its volatile gases are quickly driven off and break down in salt water. The volume of oil released to volume of water in the affected area is at least 6 million to 1. Once the volatiles are driven off, the tar left behind will sink and be enmired with the mud that streams into the gulf from countless rivers and streams. Much the same thing happened in 1979 at the Ixtoc I blowout, which was functionally identical to this one but at a much shallower depth. We were really fortunate here, in that the natural flow of water from the Mississippi is so powerful that most of the oil released near the surface from the early stages of the disaster was pushed away, and that at depth has almost no chance of getting anywhere near the surface. From the beginning there has been nothing but stupidity and misinformation all round, from all parties, on this spill.
And BTW, nuking something at 5000 feet under water would have essentially zero effect on the surface environment. It would also do nothing to stop the well unless carried out at the same depth as the relief well. Since the relief well is guaranteed to work, it’s pointless to even consider it.
Note that I am not defending the scum-sucking oil companies here or the government of toadies that kisses collective oil-ass. It’s the general stupidity, ignorance, and trembling baby pussiness of everyone that makes me want to puke. Everyone from McChrystal to Eminem is a posturing, ignorant pussy in this ridiculous excuse for a country. Why should we have expected anything better from the clowns in the gulf?
-drl
I really had cause to laugh this morning when reading Elaine Supkis’ excellent blog (available on this page under “links” about the carbon crew, Simmons, Al Gore, Prince Charming,er, I meant the ever dashing Prince of Wales, lecture us on how we need to “liberate” ourselves from peak oil. Of course, they do this while jet-setting around the country, living in lavish luxury, air-controlled palaces. They’re now telling me that I need to turn off the window air conditioner in my my humble, three room, walk-up flat so that I can do my part to save the world. Golly gee, thanks for that advice. Makes me want to roll up the old shirt sleeves and create my own windfarm on my private balcony over looking Interstate 95. I know I’m of modest means, and extremely little importance, but just thinking about how my own little contribution in my own little corner of H.ll will save this poor, afflicted world that I have decimated. Oh, and to echo Grouchy Old Girl, there will be NO cookies baked today because it heats up the friggin kitchen. No sandwiches, either!
do more research.
Methane is Non-toxic! highly combustable, but does no damage to humans unless it displaces enough oxygen, which is really hard to imagine as the weather causes rapid mixing of atmospheric gases.
BTW, if you want to worry about a real methane catastrophe that the ignoranti will not report because they are too abysmally stupid to understand basic science, here it is: Global warming models do not account for the methane that inevitably will be released from the melting permafrost, as what was frozen for eons begins to rot. Methane is 20 times as effective at trapping infrared radiation as carbon dioxide. It breaks down rapidly into water and CO2 but not rapidly enough to prevent an enormous spike in world temperatures, particularly near the pole. This is nearly certain to happen. I tried to get people interested in this in the 1980s but environmentalists hooted at the poor science nerd’s pretensions.
“Wiping out that much R/E in one shot would crush the banks and probably the global financial system.”
How incredibly convenient!
So? What does that have to do with my specific point?
(Incidentally, in case you hadn’t noticed, I was giving my assessment of Simmons’s advice that a nuclear device be used.)
Beginning with the misinformation that it is a “spill”. Spills do not kill eleven workers. It was an explosion.
What is your source for this assertion?
I was under the impression a nuclear explosion might produce a shock wave, and perhaps some radiation that would affect life forms.
Might a shock wave at 5,000 feet underwater create a ripple effect, also known as a tsunami?
Thanks for providing perspective from a different gender. Males can be so annoying!
I enjoyed your comment!
We need more humor here, what with the end-of-the-world, or the 14th century, take your pick, said to be rapidly approaching.
Matt Simmons is now a former energy investment banker. He retired from Simmons & Company International, effective June 30th, 2010 (after 36 years with Simmons & Company).
His intent now is to devote his full focus to The Ocean Energy Institute. Founded in 2007, the Ocean Energy Institute is a think-tank and venture capital fund addressing the challenges of U.S. offshore renewable energy.
Simmons now says:
The Ocean Energy Institute approaches energy R&D and investment from a systems point of view; not just generation, but usage, storage and transmission all together as an interdependent set of opportunities and the next driving force of the international economy. The Ocean Energy Institute works to coordinate the diverse factors that will help make ocean energy a reality, including energy system architecture, offshore wind technology, environmental interests, stakeholder concerns, industrial partners, academic research, financial firepower and political factors.
We saw how well the evacuations went during Katrina. Most were unable to evacuate and those who did were evacuated by FEMA to parts unknown. The people therefore will not evacuate themselves unless some else does it for them which in doing so means an admission of just how dangerous the situation geniunely is and has been, hidden and denied. In addition, the people of the region are loathe to decide between life or death by meager cleanup paycheck deducted from their (imaginary?) award somewhere down the line if this thing ever dies down enough to make it into court. By then, BP will be long gone.
Wait long enough to evacuate and there might just be nowhere safe to go.
As far as Matt Simmons and Utah, he’s wrong about the effects incurred. Results of that nuking came out in the Cancer/early death/chronic illness statistics among residents in Utah and Nevada. This was made known to the public during the Bush attempt to dump waste at Yucca Mountain in 2006.
With Matt Simmons we have the rare opportunity to test his predictions. We also shouldn’t forget that Simmons was a former energy adviser to President Bush.
On June 10, 2010 Simmons warned that BP will be bust within a month as the cost of the Gulf of Mexico oil crisis spirals out of control. He specifically said that the scale of the spill is much bigger than BP imagines. Here is a quote from Simmons himself:
So, there we have it. It is over a month later. BP did not go belly up … they just intensified their suppression of the press, manipulation of the USA government, and increased their lies.
Simmons is not to be trusted either. He makes brash predictions and rarely gets called on them.
Well, actually, Barron’s did call him out.
The Barron’s article went on to note that Simmon’s Ocean Energy Institute, a renewable energy think-tank and venture capital fund he started in 2007, is involved in a project to develop off-shore wind power facilities and other alternative energies.
If Barron’s assertion is true, it would appear that Simmons could have had a serious conflict of interest when he went onto so many TV and magazine interviews talking his book about BP and the Gulf oil spill.
From that perspective, his remarks would seem irresponsible and only added to the existing despair and chaos, which is nothing the nation, particularly the Gulf Coast residents, need right now.
One has to wonder if this potentially unethical and maybe illegal act could have been easily deterred if only the media, instead of dashing to a seemingly sensational headline, would take a minute to require a disclosure before putting Simmons on TV and quoting him?
Nah, that would be expecting too much of today’s journalists.
…Simmons has a 4,000-share short sale on BP that he picked up when the stock hit $37. That’s in addition to a prior 4,000-share short sale he made at $48 a couple weeks prior. “It’s going to zero,” he says of BP stock. Mind you, Simmons has an interest and a deep investment in moving beyond fossil fuels.
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So if BP stock goes to zero – which it won’t – Simmons makes $340,000. Big deal. He probably carries that much around in his right front pants pocket for tipping parking attendants.
Males can be so annoying!
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“Males” cannot hold a candle to you in the annoying dept.
Q said: “So if BP stock goes to zero – which it won’t – Simmons makes $340,000. Big deal.”
Spoken like a true Dept. of Defense contractor accountant.
JHK, I’m a physicist and I know some chemistry.
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Oh yeah! Well my daughter has a degree in Women’s Studies and her manicurist is only a year shy of an Associates in Fine Arts and they both tell me you’re full of dog poop and that if anybody so much as lights a cigarette within a mile of that well the whole world is going to explode. Physicist schmisicist!;o)
If the cap is oozing already, it’s probably going to get worse as the pressure builds.
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Vlad, suggestion – stick to your areas of expertise: fascism and IQ stats by race.
Reply to Quistik: Good luck to your daughter and her degree in Women’s Studies, as well as her manicurist on getting jobs with their respective degrees. (I think I go to the same manicurist and she’s simply divine!) It’s a jungle out there and we girls need to keep our claws sharp. I have a master’s degree and haven’t had a job since last November. A career? I gave up that idea during the reign of Bush II. Presently I’m trying to beat out a couple of teenagers out of part-time jobs at Wendy’s. In the meanwhile, I’m getting pretty good at collecting aluminum cans, but the supermarkets are always after me to return their gosh-darn carts.
Regarding Matt Simmons’ take on the GOM disaster: listen to the Matt Simmons interview on thetruthseeker.co.uk (link below) and you will be persuaded. In any case, the proof will be irrefutably in the water before much longer.
I have read TheOilDrum (TOD) since 2005 and couldn’t agree more with sandiego’s post that appeared on TOD this morning. fdoleza and his buddies are taking over TOD and saying all we can believe are PR releases from PB and the Gov., sneering at/silencing anyone else. This has caused me to move TOD from “Peak Oil Blogs” to “Mainstream Media” in my Favorites list. As is the case with money, bad posts drive out good. What a shame to see co-opted what had been one of the best sites on the Web.
sandiego on July 19, 2010 – 10:10am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Parent subthread | Comments top
I have been a fan of TOD since reading The Long Emergency in 2005 (registered with TOD 3 years 27 weeks ago).
I think that Matt Simmons is probably correct in his assessment of the disaster in the gulf. http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=13070 (Listen to the interview!)
I also think that many of the new TOD “posters” are deliberately trying to downplay this event by quickly refuting, ingenuously questioning or ridiculing anyone trying to understand the truth of what is happening by posing as “drilling experts” or “having worked xx years in the oil industry” i.e. kalliergo, gmf, bbfellow, fdoleza, snakehead, deadman, esarlls3, hiver, porker, et. al (They all signed on to TOD exactly 7 weeks x days ago except bbfellow who signed on 6 weeks 2 days ago). Perhaps, BP is paying these shills? If BP is willing to pay university professors $250 per hour, how much are they willing to pay TOD “posters”?
The truth is: What if Matt Simmons is correct? What if we have been spending the last 90 days watching oil gush from a six-inch pipe while much more oil is spewing out 1-10 miles away?
Isn’t it (wouldn’t it have been) better to assume the worst case and act on that rather than downplaying the magnitude of what might be happening?
The truth of this oil spill fiasco is like chasing the wind down a Byzantine hall of mirrors. Nobody knows all, not even BP, and what they do know is juggled among the other decoy balls in the air.
My limited attention span needs something more tangible, such as Kunstler savaging hack architects and city planners. Speaking of which, I stumbled upon this old Kenneth Rexroth Urbanism and Community Planning essay from 1964:
http://www.bopsecrets.org/rexroth/essays/urbanism.htm
As far as I’m concerned, Simmons has lost it. Yes, I believe that the well casing is compromised, and that well can never safely be used as a production well, but it will still be possible to kill it from the bottom via the relief wells being drilled. The Ixtoc I oil spill was a well that failed in a manner similar to Macondo. That one took 10 months to stop, but they did stop it. Progress on Macondo is better, I say that the job will be done by the end of August, except for the cleanup. If the sea floor were as fragile as Simmons makes it out to be, there would be natural oil slicks all over the Gulf of Mexico.
Qshtic, my dear chum, not to impeach your or your wife’s parenting skills or anything……… but WHO planted it in your daughter’s head that a degree in Women’s Studies would be a good major for anybody who doesn’t have a trust fund set up for her?
Note to parents: It’s never too early to get your kids into a pragmatic mindset regarding career choices. Don’t “dis” them when they tell you they want to do something wildly impractical or improbable when they “grow up”…. just work with them daily to develop a practical, pragmatic, reality-oriented approach to life.
Like I should talk… I was an art and philosophy major many decades ago, and learned the folly of my choice pretty late, then more or less “fell” into finance and have had to scramble since to put together a plausible career. How I wish I’d taken 33 hours of accounting back then, when I could get Mommie to pay for it.
I’d really think that kids of more recent generations would have learned to make more realistic choices, given the shifts in the economy since the 70s and the slide in incomes and narrowing of career choices for most people since that time, especially with what college costs now. It’s dreadful to think that you borrowed $150K for a degree that will get you a job at Starbucks, maybe.
The oil rig and methane bubble scenario sound eerily familiar to me. The very first sci-fi book I read back in the 70’s was “Denver Is Missing” by D.F. Jones.
“It starts with a deep sea oil rig drilling for oil. The oil bit shatters unexpectedly, halting drilling. Several hours later, bubbles are observed breaking the surface of the water. The next morning, what had been just bubbles has now become a visible gasious water spout – shooting upwards into the sky. The sheer pressure of the gas to push through tons of seawater and maintain a solid column means the gas pocket is HUGE. The gas … becomes a massive cloud which starts to cirle the earth. After weeks of the gas spout activity, the enormous ocean pocket left by the displaced gas collapses – causing multiple Tidal waves.
Formed quite an impression on me back then… maybe I’ll get to see it played out for real!
“Denver is Missing” at Amazon
Annoying is in the eyes of the beholder, there are a lot of arguments on here as to who is annoying.
But to your point: I believe a lot of men are blow hards and say things that they know nothing about.
I also believe that this pales with the stubbornness and intractability of the female mind. Once they have an idea, it won’t go away with a blasting cap.
I think there’s a lot of people of both sexes who have been educated way beyond whatever intelligence they ever had.
And they have way too much self esteem.
Anyway whatever happened to tolerance and understanding, aren’t women big on that?
Hi.
Where have you worked as a physicist? I have a BA in physics from UCSC and a MS in physics and a MS in electrical engineering from UC Davis and worked 3 years for navair and a year for Intel as an electrical engineer. Your explanations here sound plausible, particularly in regard to the volatile components outgassing rapidly and then the tars settling into the ocean floor sediments. Could you give some quantitative specifications referring to the following? By that I mean could you show how these two blow-outs were functionally identical, what the flow rate of the Mississippi is and how far out it will carry the oil deposits?
Thanks.
Geoff
Sacramento, CA
Much the same thing happened in 1979 at the Ixtoc I blowout, which was functionally identical to this one but at a much shallower depth. We were really fortunate here, in that the natural flow of water from the Mississippi is so powerful that most of the oil released near the surface from the early stages of the disaster was pushed away, and that at depth has almost no chance of getting anywhere near the surface.
Qshtic, my dear chum,
=================
Laura, my precious, I amaze myself. I can write the most obvious foolishness and STILL people don’t realize they’re being Q-spoofed. Take Vlad – after I spoofed him, Asoka and TreeBeard in one “swell foop” he comes back again for more. It’s like the proverbial fish in a barrel. I didn’t even have the heart to tell him there was no Blake, Burton, Fuseli, et al on my Little League team but now you’ve forced my hand. He actually believes this less than zero probability happenstance should be taken by me as a sign that HE IS.
And now you! Wasn’t the winking smiley face a clue?
Much like one of those fortune-telling Magic 8 Balls that they used to sell, the following words floated to the top of my tiny mind: “Beware of the one who offers to protect you, for that is the very one against whom you will eventually require protection” (probably more of a “misquote” courtesy of a faulty memory than a quote from one of Gail Sheehy’s books). Although the author intended that sentence to be interpreted with respect to relationships, I tend to regard it in light of my ever-increasing distrust of anything governmental.
I have long since ceased to believe any claim of success put forth by either BP or the apparently gullible US government representatives in relation to their PR on the oil “spill.” In fact, I have recently become enamored of You Tube as a source of information — a resource that has featured Matt Simmons in many of its videos of late. A belated thank you , incidentally, JH, for this week’s column in featuring this individual’s views and admonitions as I, too, consider him credible and respect his courage in voicing his concerns.
I have located a couple of very brief but informative You Tube offerings in the event anyone is interested. The first is entitled “Water Samples from Gulf Beaches Prove Toxic, Sample EXPLODES” posted for view by “5878467” and a real chiller-diller, “BP Cap = Methane Time” posted by “DeepwaterCrimes.”
I have had the feeling from the very beginning that this oil spill is going to be comparable to the Dust Bowl of the Great Depression, given the economic and political environment that we now face in our country. Another of Mother Nature’s reminders to mankind who is actually in charge, possibly exacerbated by an even Greater Depression. I sincerely hope not but I no longer trust what I am told by either my government or the MSM.
Actually, using ammonia to fuel cars is not so insane (assuming that we should all be driving cars in the first place – that’s another issue). You are correct that ammonia is toxic, but gasoline is hardly benign stuff. And burning ammonia emits no CO2:
http://www.greentechgazette.com/index.php/alternative-fuels/ammonia-fuel-as-an-alternative-for-vehicles/
In 1869, Emile Lamm introduced the first ammonia-powered motor. Many other inventors would follow. In World War II, ammonia ran the buses in Belgium when fossil fuels were in short supply. Liquid anhydrous ammonia also ran the X-15 rocketplane.
In 2004, Zap Motors came out with a hydrogen fuel cell car that used an Ammonia Cracker to release the hydrogen to run the automobile. The Hydrogen Engine Center in Algona, Iowa has also developed an ammonia/hydrogen-fueled Oxx Power engine that burns cleanly.
Anhydrous ammonia can run in automobiles with few modifications and there is also a vast infrastructure partially in place for using this chemical in automobiles. On September 29 – 30, 2008, the Iowa Energy Center is holding the Ammonia As Fuel conference to talk about and make plans for this gasoline alternative.
Sorry, I want to follow my post on ammonia with a more detailed link, for those who are interested:
http://www.nh3car.com/FAQ1.htm
Okay, the sun is down, my flat has cooled off (and no, I DID NOT turn off my window air conditioner). The cookies are in the oven if anyone is still interested. I figure after two or more scotch and sodas, I’ll pass out for another night. Weatherman says it’s only going to be 98 tomorrow (liar!) Think I’ll start my balcony garden tomorrow. Maybe some tomatoes, snow peas (at least that sounds cool), a row or two of corn (we call it maize). By the way, ladies, a great way to keep cool in this heat is to keep your undies in the freezer. (Marilyn Monroe did this in the movie, “The Seven Year Itch”. Trust me, it works.
Well, here is a link to a story about the potential of a methane lake in that well that could blow… it’s a bit different than what Jim said, but very alarming none the less..
http://www.helium.com/items/1864136-how-the-ultimate-bp-gulf-disaster-could-kill-millions?page=1
Having observed the discussion about Simmons on theoildrum, peakoil and here, I took the time and listened to the interview with Eric King.
I was left feeling that trust in Simmons may be misplaced. His assertion that “Methane is one of the most toxic gases known…” was typical of a sort of carelessness displayed throughout. His other assertion that a subsea nuclear explosion would be safe and effective also rankled. It could be that his current status as a favoured media cassandra for second-tier new media, have left him a little dizzy.
A shame since his earlier comments were so prescient.
Hey ALL
JHK offers a worse case scenario, year after year.Even if hes wrong, the best case sceanrio [ no its not gonna be asokas version] is downright scary!
scenario
I have met Matt Simmons several times over 3 decades.
He is no slouch.
Do not forget he was a key player in the Bush 2 admin and he may know something we do not.
He also could be a bit out of his element.
But I agree we should have nuked the bore hole at 500+ feet below the sea floor and put a stop to this.
We also will have a mess with all of the dispersants used.
As for BP they are nothing more than a criminal gang.
Red
For those around the Gulf coast, I’d say the best chances of evacuation is to cycle out. But you’d have to do a bit of a dry run in advance, and do something like keep several water bottles ready in the freezer.
Keep fit by going cycling every weekend.
When an evacuation actually happens, I’d say take the freeway. You can always contest fines in court (if they actually manage to get the justice system back together, after it all blows over).
If he’s right, we’re all fooked, but especially the gulf coasters and the BP mutual fund retirees.
He’s wrong about the toxicity of methane gas. It’s harmless unless it displaces moron than 5% of the oxygen in air.
JK
BP and others drilled in the gulf without understanding the risks, hence the current crisis.
To consider setting off a nuclear device as part of the solution is madness, the unintended consequences are likely horrendous.
Its capped, finish the relief well, plug it and leave it alone.
Nuclear options should be limited to generating zero co2 energy not making the current crisis a bigger clusterfuck than it already is.
“Vlad, suggestion – stick to your areas of expertise: fascism and IQ stats by race.”
Hear Hear
If Matt Simmons is correct, and there is no reason to doubt him, can someone, anyone, please tell me what President Obama was doing down here in Michigan last week? Oh, I know the official line from the White House was that he was here to announce the construction of new factory to make batteries for the hybrid cars that will be all the rage when gas hits twenty bucks a gallon. Obama was even gracious enough to take a few photos with Michigan’s idiot governor, but the whole thing reeked of Bill Clinton’s all-style-but-no-substance leadership style. Is it me or have the Democrats once again reverted to their smoke and mirrors politics of the 80’s and 90’s.
There are a lot of Simmons detractors, but the further this goes along the more he looks like he is making sense. Let’s consider that some of the data he is citing comes from the Thomas Jefferson research ship in the gulf and so far none of those scientists have come forward to reject what he has said.
As for the BP bankrupting comment, it really is just a matter of timing. And we have seen how well companies hand in glove with government theives can scrape along a little further (think of the bailouts) extorting the populace before the inevitable arrives. However, here is a little piece of breaking news:
“BP resolves closure of operations in Pakistan: BADIN: The British Petroleum (BP), an international oil-drilling company working in Badin, has resolved to close down all operations in Pakistan and will soon sale out its shares owing to financial crisis being faced on account of Gulf sea oil spill, Breaking news reported.”
I’m sure this is just the beginning of the end.
As to the nuclear explosion idea, I don’t care if you are a physicist, a geologist, a geophysicist, or Michio Kaku’s mom, unless you know the specific information pertaining to the Gulf sea floor, and the Macondo formation specifically, then anything you say is just speculation. It seems like a risky venture, but as our friends in the white house like to say when considering the prospect of annihilating something, we should leave all options on the table.
I wonder if Simmons was referring to the toxic effects on the Gulf itself and its sea life. of course it would be toxic to humans, but only as an asphyxiant (effects of ingesting large amounts are not known), however I did read this and wonder what sort of transformations it might undergo mixed with other chemicals:
By itself, methane is not toxic. It is extremely flammable and will cause an explosion; it will also kill you by asphyxiation if it leaks into an enclosed space and deprives you of oxygen. But methane only becomes poisonous when it forms part of another gas and is subject to certain circumstances. The bad news is that this happens quite often.
As for how it looks so far…
Gulf oil leak causing upheaval in marine ecology
“Earlier today, Samantha Joye of the University of Georgia in Athens spoke of what they are finding. She said that methane concentrations in a giant underwater plume emanating from the well head are as much as 10,000 times higher than background levels. The consequences of this for life in the gulf are unknown.
Joye was one of the first scientists to discover deep-water plumes emanating from the ongoing spill and recently returned from a two-week research expedition on board the research vessel F. G. Walton Smith. “It’s an infusion of oil and gas that has never been seen before, certainly not in human history,” she said earlier today, as she described her preliminary findings.
The plume is more than 24 kilometres long, 8 kilometres wide and 90 metres thick, and stretches from 700 to 1300 metres below the surface south-south-west of the collapsed Deepwater Horizon well head.”
-http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19021-gulf-oil-leak-causing-upheaval-in-marine-ecology.html
(AP) The oil emanating from the seafloor contains about 40 percent methane, compared with about 5 percent found in typical oil deposits, said John Kessler, a Texas A&M University oceanographer who is studying the impact of methane from the spill.
That means huge quantities of methane have entered the Gulf, scientists say, potentially suffocating marine life and creating “dead zones” where oxygen is so depleted that nothing lives.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/oil-spill-may-cause-methane-poisoning-wiping-out-life-in-parts-of-gulf-2010-6
Chemist found Explosive Toxic Gulf SeaWater Samples:
http://vodpod.com/watch/4046284-chemist-found-explosive-toxic-gulf-seawater-samples-tests-methane-or-corexit-bp-oil-spill-horror-flv
Anyone who knows Jim or carefully follows his Blog will discern the shift in emphasis and tone of “What if he’s right”. The pedantic ranting and hyperbole (and I mean this in the best way; its how Jim likes to paint) are diminished and unadorned concern is the subtext. I believe this rattled Jim the same way it rattled me. If he is right, Matthew Simmons just set the first warning pylon ablaze. Whether we heed the warning or not, the real enemy is at our shore. The oceans are what started life and if we kill the seas we likely drown our dignity as human being in the process. It may be 9:07 a.m. but I think I’m going to open a good bottle of cabernet.
Just thought I’d share a comment I made to Morning Joe after watching the Erin Burnett segment
Erin Burnett’s sin of Omission
This morning Erin Burnett sang the praises of the profits Whirlpool has made since receiving tax-payer money in the stimulus package. So hooray for the stimulus package and “Uncle Obama” (depicted as Uncle Sam).
What she didn’t tell you was the tragic loss of jobs for American workers, the biggest losers in the quest for outsourcing. As some might recall, the parameters of who should get the money was originally supposed to be for American jobs only, but no… the globalists insisted that we are in a global economy and thus, we should not limit who can get the funds. In that scenario, anything goes and in this case it was 1,100 American jobs.— Oh and the price tag for the shut down of a factory: $51 million.
The story is that Whirlpool took the money and proceeded to close some of its factories in Detroit. Some have been moved to Ohio, but the real kicker here is that the Evansville, Indiana refrigerator plant was closed and moved to Mexico.
Obama, the great capitulator, has assigned dedicated outsourcers on his commission to reduce American’s debts and deficits. I don’t see how this is going to help our situation in this country while unemployment benefits are running out and the Republicans are blaming the victims.
In this atmosphere it is hard to imagine that there is any hope for a turn-around for job opportunities. I just see these supply-side, Global fanatics turning this country into a complete basket case for the zero-sum game of profits to the top 2%.
see: http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/whirlpool-gets-19-million-taxpayer-stimulus-funds-offshore-outsources-jobs
Jim, if you’re going to allow the possibility that Matt Simmons is right, you should also consider the possibility that he has either gone goofy or has a financial stake in his version of events.
I had respected the guy enough to hope it’s not the former, but having followed this disaster closely at TOD, I’m having my doubts. I don’t think he possesses a technical expertise anything like the people there who are actually working on oil rigs in the field and commenting on what’s happened. Some of the claims Mr. Simmons has made are just plain off the radar as far as what’s physically possible.
That said, I don’t think he’s insane per se. I think he has some financial stake in BP’s demise, and is willing to risk his reputation creating just enough confusion in the media to erode the public’s confidence in anything BP might do or say.
Either way, I now approach his claims with extreme caution.
“There’s more to this story than you appreciate. Simmons has a network of trusted friends in the oil patch who know exactly what happened at Macondo.”
This is what I believe. I think he is speaking for those who can’t/won’t.
If Matt Simmons is not speaking the TRUTH, his credibility is shot.
The TRUTH will be revealed eventually.
Having said that, I must also say it has become impossible for me to believe anything anyone says; be it the government, Big Corp, the media, posters on the internet…
It seems to be all lies, deception, and fraud, everywhere, by everyone, all the time.
It’s a sad place we’ve come to.
george,
I’ll make a guess…
He was deflecting attention from the oil *!*explosion*!* (thx. to the poster above for ACCURATELY calling it what it is!) disaster that’s unfolding way down south??? Oh, and didn’t you hear? It’s Recovery Summer. Obama & his clown-friend Biden are telling us so…even though the Fed. Reserve said recovery is still 5-6 years away.
“Is it me or have the Democrats once again reverted to their smoke and mirrors politics of the 80’s and 90’s.”
In a word? Yep. It’s all they’ve got.
george said: “Is it me or have the Democrats once again reverted to their smoke and mirrors politics of the 80’s and 90’s.”
It’s you george. Obama, whether you like him or not, has been much like Ronald Reagan in getting things accomplished. It is definitely not smoke and mirrors.
You can confirm this with astute observers like Charles Krauthammer, whose latest column states: “I have a warning for Republicans: Don’t underestimate Barack Obama.”
But there is no argument that it will give the government unprecedented power in the financial marketplace.
I, amongst legions of my colleagues, belong to the genus: “hack architects”.
Unfortunately, despite books and movies such as “The Fountainhead” and other dewy-eyed and glamorized versions of the practice of architecture, we too are simply mere servants (dare I say slaves?) to corporations. Our “power”, if we really ever had any, was usurped decades ago.
Yes sir. No sir. Three bags full sir.
How high you say?
Look at the canting holy-oilers!
Thus they have snatched from us so many a prize,
With our own weapons they would foil us;
They too are devils, only in disguise.
Faust, Part III, Act V.
As a lover of all living non-human things (and I mean that in a spiritual way), the oceans contain far more life within them in terms of both quantity and diversity, than what exists upon land.
All I ever hear about is how this calamity affects US: how it affects JOBS; how it affects the ECONOMY, how it affects THE FISHING INDUSTRY; how it’s affecting FINANCE; how it’s affecting RETIREMENT FUNDS IN BRITAIN. FUCK OFF!
Given the degree of pestilience we have incurred upon the planet, so what if a few million GD humans die at the hands of BP? The damage that has been wrought at and beneath the waves is apocolyptic already. But only a minority are actually focussed on that.
It is this extreme selfishness that got us here. The relative lack of concern over the destruction of non-human life in that region is chilling. That is the TRUE disaster. I hear no mourning for what has been destroyed. Sure a few pics of some oily pelicans. Next.
This is our abysmal disconnect with nature, incarnate.
As a living organism dependant on a larger living organism, leaving it simply to “others” to deal with is abdicating ones responsibility of stewardship and co-existance. If we do not embody empathy for our fellow living organisms, then the “solutions” will only result in more of the same if the COLLECTIVE attitude doesn’t change.
Preach, brother!
I am going outside now to do some more adobe construction.
I have posted several times germane to this week’s theme, but there doesn’t seem much energy around debating Mr. Simmons.
What if Simmons is wrong? What if we don’t all die?
What if, imagine this, things start getting better!
Oh, horrors, doomers! What would we do then?
Buh, bye.
I second that.
Maybe a small nuke in British Petroleum,s nest:LONDON,might be apt.
Environfrigginmentalist: You are a true man among men! You are eloquent and right-on, man.
‘What if, imagine this, things start getting better’
Fat chance!!! get better in what way? compared to what?
‘imagine this’ i know yr imagination is scary!
i dont need to imagine. realitys whatever it is!
‘The story is that Whirlpool took the money and proceeded to close some of its factories in Detroit’
check the story of huffy bikes online! the town paid a then $20,000,000 was it?
LL took it to jail with her. speak to the bailor at the BHCH.
‘economy since the 70s’
ID SAY SINCE 1970
‘and the slide in incomes and narrowing of career choices for most people since that time, especially with what college costs now. It’s dreadful to think that you borrowed $150K for a degree ‘
Schools may be part of the swindle.
there are the ‘for profit’ schools.[yuk][$$$]
the private [$]and even the public schools, remember seats must be filled or schools close. which is why teachers unions go for immigration, multi lingualism, junk education ectc adnauseum.
worst class i ever took was at part of cuny with an overeducated feminist.
quoting Krauthammer??He is a hate mongering,racist moron!!
Yeah, I hate those freaking overeducated feminists. Who the f.ck do these broads think they are, men? The very idea! Excuse me while I unfasten my corset.
quoting Krauthammer??He is a hate mongering,racist moron!!
Wouldn’t you think the other oil companies would be eager to help BP any way they could to reduce the impact of this fiasco in the gulf.That greed ridden bunch are probably sitting there snickering,loping their mule,waiting to increase their take in the oil racket with one less competitor.A real fine bunch of predators,almost as vicious as Goldfink Sachs.
Some factors affecting the political arena in coming years will be the inability of either party to point fingers at each other knowing full well how deeply each will seem hypocritical for taking the same lobbyist money.
But the other “end point” that must surely be coming is the “election year pay outs” and promises special interests.
I’m pretty sure that we are nearing “peak debt” – but if someone had described what would happen as the Obama administration took office I would not have believed it. I actually thought they would prosecute not proliferate the scamming.
I’m sure I have no understanding of how moneyed influence exerts – a perverts – the democratic political process – but I pretty sure this big fat pig has all its tits sucked close to dry.
So how will the world work when the government make good on “bribes” or election year promises?
Is that what we call the “loss of legitimacy?”
Toes in the Sand
A View from the Gulf
Posters seem inclined to state their credentials this week, so here are a couple of mine.
*BS Biology and Chemistry
*MS Biology
*Employed in science related fields in private industry and/or government service for over 35 years.
*Active amateur and “semi-pro” SCUBA diver since 1974 with a LOT of experience in the Gulf.
And I just got back home after a family business/vacation trip to the Gulf coast that we’ve been taking annually for 50 years…we stayed approximately 135 miles from the “spill” location.
Here are some observations:
We check into a 7th floor room. I put on a swim suit and practically run down to the ocean. It looks good, feels good, and smells good. Back in the room one of my kids has binoculars out.
“Look at this, Dad.”
There is a flotilla of 6 large boats going west parallel to the beach. We’re talking deep sea “party boats” that would carry 40 people to “bottom fish” in comfort.
We’re talking a couple of nice NEW dive boats that would hold 20-30 divers. Seriously, these 6 boats are heading west at less than human walking speed.
Instead of passengers, each appears to be carrying 3 deckhands and one captain. These boats average around $1,500,000, EACH. That’s a lot of money being spent by someone.
Periodically, through binoculars, you can see a boat slow down or stop and a deckhand with a long handled net scoop up something. OMG, OMG IT IS TAR BALLS!
I saw a couple of these tar balls. They are small black specks of petroleum…about the size and consistency of thick black syrup. By themselves they represent almost zero potential for harming the environment.
There are teams of 6 private contractors walking the beach continuously in daylight hours, in pairs, three pairs to a team. The whole operation is military in its precision. Many of the contractor pairs consist of one white man and one black man. Some pairs consist of one woman and one man. AT LEAST BP IS BEING POLITICALLY CORRECT!
There are Coast Guard reservists from all over the Country walking the beach as well. I was privileged to interview some of the Coasties and a couple of the contractors for a project I’m working on. More about that later.
Meanwhile, among the 6 boats proceeding west and picking up tarballs…..I truly cannot believe I am witnessing this at first.
But in between and among these 6 boats is the usual marine “beach traffic.” There are parasail boats, there are rental waverunners, there are pleasure boats of all kinds running in and out among these six working oil spill cleanup boats.
These 6 boats are moving so slowly it is like they ARE NOT EVEN THERE.
It is truly amazing. There has been a huge industrial mitigation and containment operation conducted under the noses of beach going and news watching Americans this summer.
And it has been successful.
MAYBE TOO SUCCESSFUL.
I think JHK’s post this week, and Mr. Simmons worst case hyperbole…….is just their way of expressing their frustration with a country that just REFUSES TO GET IT, with respect to environmental damage, peak oil, or much of anything else that is truly important.
I did manage to go SCUBA diving off the beach. I just had to do it. Things look the same….yet different. More on this later this week.
On a lighter note, I am noticing that one of our recurrent posters has a daughter who majored in Women’s Studies. This is altogether good news.
I am hoping she can share with her dad some ideas to empower women.
Until this week these CFN threads have had a lot of men blathering at each other using their BIG LEFT BRAINS. I suggest we need something more.
The Earth needs you. This discussion needs you.
Come on in girls! The water’s fine!
Now I’ve gotta go do some honest work in the garden.
Life is good!
C
“and it turns out that the US government has been played by BP”
The government is BP, and all the other corporations that fund and run the fedgovt. The same players end up as advisers, cabinet members, consultants both within the fedgovt and the corporate elite. Did anyone not notice this for the past 3 or 4 or 5 decades? This is a corrupt system. There is no real democracy, or real elections. That’s why everyone claims the U.S. people are asleep: it is because they don’t notice the country has been taken over by a corporatocracy. Most people have their daily routines and jobs and taking kids to soccer. They aren’t gonna wake up. They’re living the good suburban life which is alive and well throughout most of the country despite claims to the contrary. Around here the SUVs are profligate, hands-free cellphones are something almost no one uses, and the trappings of economic success are the only thing to aspire to. There’s no crumbling going on here, no waking up to the supposed localization trend in farming, small business, and community.
Well, it is time to hijack the blog. I will put in a little off-topic statement that is undoubtedly true and watch as the comrades and the apologists and nutty pc libtards chew their faces off in apoplectic rage. Note that I wholeheartedly support this statement as it is akin to saying that what a person does in life is largely a matter of his genetic inheritence.
http://www.amren.com/ar/1995/11/index.html
“The civilization that we as whites created in Europe and America could not have developed apart from the genetic endowments of the creating people, nor is there any reason to believe that the civilization can be successfully transmitted to a different people.”
The ax has fallen on the best and bravest syndicated columnist in America. Already under a cloud because of his iconoclastic views, Samuel Francis was finally fired from the Washington Times because of a column written by Dinesh D’Souza in the Sept. 24 issue of the Washington Post. Mr. Francis’ syndicated column continues to run in 80 or 90 newspapers but it remains to be seen whether the Washington Times will continue to publish him.
Among the sentiments the Times appears to have found unacceptable was a quotation in Mr. D’Souza’s article from a speech that Mr. Francis delivered at the American Renaissance conference in May, 1994:
“The civilization that we as whites created in Europe and America could not have developed apart from the genetic endowments of the creating people, nor is there any reason to believe that the civilization can be successfully transmitted to a different people.”
This is not merely a defensible statement; it is overwhelmingly likely to be true. Mr. Francis did not write it in the Washington Times, which was free to edit or reject it if he had.
Mr. Francis is therefore being punished for expressing, on in his own time, views with which his employer may disagree. This is a chilling commentary on how narrow a view the Washington Times takes of the bounds of permissible discourse. To refuse to publish a point of view is one thing. To forbid employees even to express a point of view is something else entirely. It is a sure sign of how desperate the defenders of orthodoxy have become when they are so afraid of certain ideas that they must prohibit their very expression.
Ironically, the Washington Times is a “conservative” newspaper, which prides itself on bold, principled positions. For readers who wish to express themselves to Mr. Francis’ former employer, he is Wesley Pruden, Editor in Chief, Washington Times, 3600 New York Ave. N.E., Washington, DC 20002. AR
I appreciate the first-hand report. Keep up the good work.
Okay, turnabout is fair play, right? What about the black lady who was recently asked to resign ( fired) from her position at the D.O.A. for a speech she made at an NAACP meeting. First, she was quoted out of context on Youtube. She was merely making a statement that as a black woman, she found herself 24 years ago in a position to help white farmers, but doubted her cultural bias. She concluded with the fact that she knew her job was to help all people, regardless of race, and put her mind back on the right track. Even the white farmer and his wife stated that she bent over backwards helping them save their farm. Conspiracy theories can be fun, but really.
James, I don’t know how old you are, but you seem very wise. Us older folks (and maybe some not-so-old folks) remember the old saying, “What’s good for General Motors is good for America!” Yep, you are right, my friend. We Americans have been played for DECADES! See the U.S.A. in your (obscenely over-sized, chrome-ladden, gas-guzzling, ghastly fender finned ) Chevrolet! I was just thinking about this song while a friend of mine and I were watching the news. It goes something like, “oops, I did it again!” Yep, that’s us. We will never learn. Where have all the flowers gone?
I’m not qualified to judge the scientific validity of any gulf-gusher theory or solution being promoted by anyone, especially someone with Simmons’ knowledge and experience. I can only try to reason through the arguments like any other informed, skeptical layperson and develop some reasonably likely scenarios in my head. I am most skeptical of “fact” and “estimate” statements from BP, their government lackeys, and the corporate media.
But being skeptical is really about keeping an open mind, not a closed mind. That means you have to grant any of the proposed scenarios, no matter how far out, some nonzero probability score.
For me, the jury is still out on the “nuke-kill.” We all know that even a small nuke turns sand into glass. Whatever the composition of the seabed, one would expect other minerals to melt as well, forming lava that hardens when eventually cooled by the seawater. I like to think that would be like sealing wax.
Some of the anti-nuke-kill arguments I’ve read caution that the seabed is a fragile structure has been severely damaged, and is still being undermined and eroded by the high-pressure effluent. They conclude that a nuke would likely trigger a catastrophic collapse or fragmenting of the seabed, in turn triggering the mother of all gushers. I have no reason to doubt the purported condition of the seabed, but that doesn’t mean the conclusion is correct.
Seismic waves have different effects on different types of earth. For example, the geological effects of the many underground nuke tests conducted in the Nevada desert were trivial, from what I gather. It was like setting off firecrackers in a sandbox.
The worst damage to *human* structures by seismic events have been to those sitting on the weakest geological structures. The hardest hit areas of San Francisco, for example, have been those near the bay, where the land has been built up with silt and hauled-in rock. When the wave hits, the earth is momentarily liquified and behaves as a tidal wave, tossing buildings as if they were fishing boats. When the tremors end, the new landscape is basically mud.
So I can see the possibility that a nuke would melt, liquify (turn to mud), and granulate much of the weak seabed surrounding the gusher. And “mud” is a great way to contain a gusher until you can seal it off for good.
what is Asoka fe-male? if hes male of course hes in that group!
Uh, JHK is anticar in a ‘car bound country’!
cars were to give us so much freedom, look what happened!
Recently i went to a presentation by someone who wants cars to run off solar panels. he has some tech to back it up but ultimately it wont happen.
as we are ‘peak resources’ and solar doesnt fly, despite the airplane run totally on solar.
do what ever you want. makes no diff
JHK..id guess hes 60 to 63.
yrs being grammar, punctuation, spelling and trouble making.
dont wander outside yr circle of competence!
‘if we kill the seas ‘
ask not if but WHEN!
ITS estimatated in 30 ? more years all fish will be gone from oceans. that doesnt factor in peak oil and the dominos that ill collapse after P.O.
hmmm…..okayye then………nothing that another scotch and soda won’t cure….nighty night night.
if hes male of course hes in that group!
============
Correct – making him annoying squared.
Jim has never met a doomsday scenario he didn’t like.
Occasionally those scenarios DO come true, of course. (Just as JHK has successfully forecast 17 of the last 3 recessions.)
And then there’s JHK’s perennial prediction that the Dow Jone Industrial Average will end the year at 4000. I stick by my prediction of 8500. In six months we’ll see who is closest.
Oh, and while I’m sorry to have to point this out to all of Jim’s fanatics, here it is in black and white: the EIA reports that global petroleum production was (modestly) higher in the first quarter of this year than at ANY time history. So Jim’s Peak Oil panic jumps the gun, too.
Yes, of course Peak Oil is coming, but it’s probably a good 10-15 years away. In the meantime, it’s amazing to me that anybody takes any of JHK’s predictions seriously. He’s hardly ever right. My astrologer is more accurate than Jim.
Scrubby…Mr. Simmons…and all other NUKE the well people out there.
This “spill/well/thing” seems “almost” contained right now. A nuke has almost zero possibility of helping at this point. It has, IMO, nearly infinite potential to do damage.
Damage here defined as:
1.Displacing the “cap.”
2. Damaging underlying geology to release more oil.
3. Radiation damage to the Gulf.
4. Potential tsunami from nuke or from triggering explosive decompression of +unknown+ quantities of methane under pressure of 5000 +/- FSW.
But let us concede your whole entire point.
And say, “A NUKE WOULD FIX THE WHOLE PROBLEM IMMEDIATELY AND PERMANENTLY WITH ZERO COLLATERAL DAMAGE!!”
There is still never going to be a NUKE for the well.
Why? Because BP doesn’t have nukes. BP has huge machines and lots of money. They have demonstrated incredible abilities to damage the environment of the planet.
But they don’t have nukes.
Only governments have nukes.
The US government will never cough up one of their NUKES for BP to play with.
It’s just never gonna happen.
I think we need to argue about something that could happen.
Like us, on this thread, coming up with ideas to save the whole freak’n’ Planet.
A man can dream, can’t he?
Simmons is suffering from science illiteracy. And so are the rest of you. Listen, the methane leak danger to human life directly…
… is impossible. Physically, and chemically impossible.
Simmons comes off in Eric King’s interview as someone who is very afraid of what he thinks is a threat- he describes it at around 15:00 in the interview- and quite illogically recommends “medical experts” (how are they chemical experts?)that “understand methane gas” – “germ warfare people” – to advise evacuation.
This is ridiculous because methane is inert, for all purposes, readily handled by the body’s biochemistry, evaporates in the atmosphere (diffuses), and will never stretch in a 7-mile long cloud at 5% or greater concentration in the air.
Methane is being released- but it is diffuse. The air levels aren’t high enough to threaten anyone’s health. The levels aren’t high enough to combust. It will proceed to the upper atmosphere and contribute to the greenhouse effect- but that is it.
So as to the question of whether or not Simmons is right about methane clouds, government takeover or evacuation plans- he is just wrong about basic chemistry and physics.
It doesn’t lend any creedence to taking his other fix- the nuclear option- very seriously either. Maybe its a workable fix- theoretically. But Simmons isn’t a physical scientist. So no, I don’t take his prognostications seriously.
He is wrong on high school chemistry exam-type questions.
Guy likes to talk alot. Round here we call that being a “Blow-hard”.
Look, I’m not trying to get myself in a position of defending Mr. Simmons. I think the man is out on a limb and sawing vigorously.
There is only one idea about methane in the deep Gulf that worries me a little.
TBU and Mr. Lunsford worked some of these ideas over earlier today quite well.
I think they only missed one important point, and that is the power of compressed gasses.
I took a training class sometime, somewhere….and the instructor stated that a single standard 80 CF SCUBA bottle filled to 3000 psi with air….had enough energy….if properly concentrated to lift a 40 ton fire engine 40 feet straight up….in a millisecond….that’s dangerous power, folks.
To make it more personal for some of you…it is the same explosive power that would allow a champagne cork to rupture a human eyeball…if properly concentrated on one point.
And we’re talking +millions+ of cubic feet of methane, entrained somewhere in the deep Gulf.
I’ll freely admit that if the “spill” is truly capped…that that methane will dissipate at some “rapid?” rate…as per Mr. Lunsford
I’m not defending Simmons on this one.
I consider the odds against a tsunami caused by explosive decompression of methane to be millions to one.
Remember I just took my whole gene pool to the Gulf for the week. And we all came home safely.
But we did stay on the seventh floor….you know…just in case!
The best “real world” referent I have for a large scale explosive decompression happened in 1986 in Cameroon. It involved CO2 in a volcanic lake and killed 1700 souls. Check the link if you’re interested. Quite different from the Gulf…but there are parallels.
http://www.geology.sdsu.edu/how_volcanoes_work/Nyos.html
I’m done for the night. Got to help a friend with a leaky swimming pool in the morning.
oops, I meant 40,000 pounds worth of fire truck…20 tons total…40 feet into the air in a millisecond
It’s still tremendous force from a little SCUBA tank, perhaps 9 inches in diameter and slightly over 2 feet tall
Now, I’m done for the night!
Watch out for those explosive decompressions.
Why you hatin’ on me punk? I have the right to express my opinion just like anyone else. It’s true I have no special expertise and therefore do not preach with my usual authority, but I feel I offered a commonsense view within the limits of my knowledge. Is this nothing? I remind you that people can have incredible knowledge and not have the commonsense to choose the right course of action. I agree with some of the prevous posters – using a nuke seems an extremely reckless action when there are several options still available. Don’t you find my humility here a refreshing change? Or do you miss my usual arrogance already?
My expertise? So you admit it? Now that JHK has come out on Immigration, it’s time for you to come out on Race and admit that me and Tree are right. You’ve been sitting on the fence for a long time and must be getting pretty sore. You’re gonna get splinters if you don’t get off of that fence.
Less than zero probability? Care to define that a little? Are you perhaps conflating impossible and the very improbable? As far as the three names in my post being the same as your Little League Infield, that is entirely possible even if unlikely. Such synchronicities do happen, and they are exciting. I tend to view such things as signs of significance or meaning. I admit I got a little excited. Obviously such a thing is not proof of God. But for a believer, such a thing might be a sign of God’s will. Perhaps I was trying to share that perspective with you in an unskillful way. And it was all a joke anyway. You got me. Part of it is that I’m a sincere person not looking for tricks like this. And I find it amazing that someone 70 years old could derive such pleaure from such juvenelia. I promise to try to do better. You are my mentor in the ways of the Qshtik.
The most amazing thing is that we are here at all. And that we are aware that we are aware. As Aristotle (pitcher) said, wonder is at the root of all science and philosophy. And after that come many other mysteries, wonders, and synchronicities. One that was in the news last year: a couple last their engagement ring on the beach 25 years ago. They wondered whether it was a sign that they shouldn’t marry – but they decided to go ahead. Then walking on the same beach 25 years later, they found the ring. The chances of that are far more remote than the naming of three names. Needless to say, they experienced this as a confirmation by the “universe” of their marriage.
Girl power!
Hey girls, we should all get together and have a female pow wow. You know maybe do some yoga and then meditate on positive thinking instead of all of this Armageddon talk!
He he…
But seriously…you mention these tiny tar balls not having any effect whatsoever on the environment. In waters that seem perfectly fine there are levels that are rather surprisingly high. Children swim in them and play in sand building castles and are none the wiser.
Have a look at this video:
vodpod.com/watch/4046284-chemist-found-explosive-toxic-gulf-seawater-samples-tests-methane-or-corexit-bp-oil-spill-horror-flv
Let’s make that annoying, cubed.
Ah, a voice of (quiet, restrained, polite, intelligent)reason surfaces at last. Not unlike a lone raindrop in a desert after a century long drought.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hnRc-COAnkwXl4pq3IR3420c9jQQD9H3BR900
Egad! Just when you thought it was safe to go back in… Why must the Chinese so relentlessly copy what we Americans are so good at doing? Ya ask me, this is like China is trying to one up us on the oil spill thingy. Gee whiz. Like some LaSalle owner trying to upgrade to a Caddy. Freaking copycats!
…. shades of, ‘Its too big to be allowed to fail.’
Where have we heard that kind of talk before…?
Brilliantly wry humour! Now, back to the kitchen, girl. As the Aussies claim, women’s feet tend to be smaller so they can stand closer to the sink. An old one you’ve probably heard.
Wow, when lack of certainty is involved,
there sure are a lot of “experts”. I
suspect that Simmons conjecture about
the nuke has an over-large “standard
deviation” which means that if he’s
right he’s a genius and if he’s wrong
we have a HUGE gaping hole instead of
a small hole.
I’m not real comfy with this conjecture,
which risks WAY too much, that a nuke
will just create this uniform glass
“shell” over the whole region. This
sounds a lot more sensible IF they
cannot quell the smaller gushers
springing up away from the initial
hole.
I’m also a little confused on how an
approaching tropical cyclone creates
all of this aerosolized methane?!
Maybe someone can explain this one to
me because it sounds like another wild
conjecture. I get the methane part but
I don’t see how it just wells up from
a mile down and then becomes an aerosol.
I haven’t located any data on the NOAA
website that deals with this issue at
all and NOAA scientists are pretty
modest about wild conjectures. In other
words, they don’t make them.
E.
At least one of the racists on this board delivers his message with some élan and flair. As for the other one, well, pop goes the megalomaniacal weasel–I’ve seen more controversy stirred on the mirror surface of Lake Vapid.
I think you’ve had a particularly unsuccessful lobotomy, and should sue your mutilator for every last cent you can get.
Other non-Caucasian races, notably, Asians, are, if anything, proving appreciably smarter. At least on a par with the Scandinavians, anyway. Maybe not the Jews. Generically, there is obviously some genetic factor, involved.
Aldous Huxley pointed out, however, that it was the disposition of a people’s heart that determined their orientation towards worldly intelligence (anything but a synonym for ‘intelligence’) or wisdom.
Mayan Indians are a very indigent and marginalised people, today, but in the 3rd and 4th centuries AD, I believe it was, they charted the heavens, making very sophisticated mathematical computations. Today they can be found living off rubbish tips.
No. It was Judaeo-Christianity, initially, notably, Christianity, that turned Europeans’ minds to the study of nature and matter. The greatest innovative thinkers in physics, prior to Einstein, had been Christians, Galileo and Newton – plus a host of other, actually unusually religious thinkers.
But ‘God made the world, and found it very good’ is a Judaeo-Christian axiom; in contrast to the other great mainsteam religions, such as Buddhism, Hinduism and Taosim, whose eschatology is exclusively spiritual. No resurrection of our glorified bodies.
Moreover, a highly-developed worldly intelligence is mankind’s greatest curse, when it it is not subservient to the spiritual wisdom, so evident most notably in hunter-gatherer societies.
In short, in the most real sense, you are an imbecile, and your kind are the reason why we have this problem in the Gulf of Mexico. Or should I say, ‘the world’.
I really think people on your side of the pond should start reading something useful e.g. The Ogoni Bill of Rights.
Because I really feel that you boys and gals are about to get seriously screwed by British Petroleum.
We’re shitting into our plates everywhere folks. Mmmmmmm. Oil!
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/07/13/tanker-spill-montreal.html
Scroll down to item 5, the world’s “largest oil spills”. Of course, these are only the big ones.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_spill
I think I’m about to have a Howard Beale moment.
“…that BP has been consistently lying about their operations to stop the flow of oil.”
What’s this? BP bullshitting? What a shock!
The whole story, the unvarnished truth are as welcome in sleek company offices as a sweat stained farmer smelling of manure. If it were otherwise we wouldn’t have had Sarbanes Oxley legislation, not that it did any good.
Less than zero probability? Care to define that a little?
============
It was either early January 2008, the evening before the BCS final game between Ohio St and LSU, or it was 2009 and just before the Florida Gators vs Oklahoma game that I happened to be on the phone with Chas, an old HS chum who retired to Maine (most people head south, he headed north), and I said (if it was in fact ’09) “who do you like in the big game tomorrow, Florida or Oklahoma?” It never occured to me that there could be a heterosexual male in the USA unaware that a BIG football game would be played the very next day … so Chas (nickname for Charles, pronounaced Chaz) says, with a certain embarrassment for his gender-cred, “well, I know less than nothing about it..etc.”
That notion of an awareness that is even less than oblivious stuck with me and spawned its fraternal twin, namely something with “less than zero probability” of happening. Whether such is possible mathematically I don’t know, but it works as a metaphor.
Clip coupons and live off of interest and dividends, like Republicans do. If your in a jam just sell some stock.
>>>Ironically, the Washington Times…..prides itself on bold, principled positions.
T,
I’m no liberal and I’m not going to chew my face off.
“The civilization that we as whites created in Europe and America could not have developed apart from the genetic endowments of the creating people, nor is there any reason to believe that the civilization can be successfully transmitted to a different people.”
Look at the US in 1945 and look at the US in 1970. You’d think it was two different countries. The young’uns in the 1960s were screaming hell no we won’t go, they responded to speeches from the podium with chants of “bullshit, bullshit”, they told the Greatest Generation that they were fascist, racist murdering pigs, that everything they worked and fought for was shit. Could you imagine the WW2 generation at Yasgur’s farm?
So what changed? The national culture changed massively. Was it the genetic endowment that changed?
I think this business about civilization not being transmissable from one race to the next doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. Ours didn’t pop out of Aristotle’s and Jefferson’s foreheads fully formed. My readng is that it came from multiple sources from inside and outside of Europe. We got our alphabet from the middle east after centuries of development in that neck of the woods. Our mathematics was pretty much an unworkable morass until we imported our numbering system from the Hindus and Arabs. Our religion has Jewish roots and that religion was no doubt influenced by cultures from all over the middle east and Persia. These are just a few examples.
The way I see it the human mind is an enormously plastic and adaptable and so is human behaviour. Is white civilization transmissable to non whites? You bet. I’ve seen it myself. But would non white civilizations accept white civilization lock stock and barrel with no change, no modification? Do you think that’s reasonable? After all, Europeans didn’t accept foreign influences without making changes.
Civilization/cultures/ideas don’t behave like subatomc paricles. You cannot use mathematical equations to explain or predict societal behaviour. It’s no slam dunk that civilization and ideas get transmitted from one generation to the next never mind from one society to the next or one race to the next.
But if civilization were a matter of genetic endowment we Boomers would behave like our parents. Which we don’t.
I think we are giving religion far too much credit here, in fact it is revisionist to say that Judaeo-Christianity led Europeans to the study of nature and matter. If you are speaking of academic inquiry, then perhaps you recall that Greece was busy paving the way well before Jesus started his PR campaign towards convincing people he was the one messiah, and scholars credit many thousands of years of thinking before to the theories it derived. But this is not surprising since many people consider the beginning of time to begin somewhere around Adam and Eve.
At any rate, who are these simpletons seeking to reduce this discussion to gender quips and other superficial knavery?
Hi, flying picket. It looks like you are a new enemy. Will clarify a few things. I never had a lobotomy. I was born this way. Nor am I an imbecile as I was in a rapid learner grade school and a gifted and talented education program in secondary school.
I acknowledge that east Asians have a higher type of non-verbal, particularly visual-spatial, intelligence than Europeans so that they have an average IQ of around 105 as opposed to the white average of 99 or 100. Ashakanazi Jews have the highest average IQ around 108 to 115. You said:
“Other non-Caucasian races, notably, Asians, are, if anything, proving appreciably smarter. At least on a par with the Scandinavians, anyway. Maybe not the Jews. Generically, there is obviously some genetic factor, involved.”
You also said: “In short, in the most real sense, you are an imbecile, and your kind are the reason why we have this problem in the Gulf of Mexico. Or should I say, ‘the world’. ” What kind am I? What kind are you saying is responsible for the problem in the GoM. The state-run Chinese organization is responsible for an oil spill as well so private (greedy) corporations are not sole responsible for environmental problems. The communist regimes of eastern Europe were even more environmentally descructive than the capitalist regimes of the west.
Now here is what I said I would do:
“Well, it is time to hijack the blog. I will put in a little off-topic statement that is undoubtedly true and watch as the comrades and the apologists and nutty pc libtards chew their faces off in apoplectic rage. Note that I wholeheartedly support this statement as it is akin to saying that what a person does in life is largely a matter of his genetic inheritence.”
I hijacked the blog just as I said I would do. It is interesting how folks get so hot and bothered at the very idea that genetics is responsible for individual and population-level human differences. Now, how do I find you to be? I think the term stupid robot is a close approximation. I know just what to say to get you to react and do your little dance. It is very easy. I have been playing close-minded inflexible little fools of this ilk since I was 3. If I am so dumb, why is it then that I can so easily predict and influence your behavior and have been succesful at that since I was a small child. I know what is in your mind and how you are likely to react, and can say just a few words to change not only the directions of conversations but to initiate patterns of behavior. Morons don’t do that. Agent proveacuters do that and they are usually very intelligent.
An amusing little racial anecdote
OK, TBU, you may be about to eclipse another poster with whom I have exchanged ideas for pure raw intelligence. You said you were going to hijack the thread. I said to myself….naaah…that won’t work.
But, by golly, here we go over the racial cliff for yet another week!
Let me clarify a couple of points, make one last effort to stop the *lemmings* (ha, now that’s supposed to be a joke…not an insult) and if I can’t halt the plunge I’ll be back next Monday…or maybe tonight…who knows, who cares?
TBU, I read your “agent provocateur (btw, you misspelled that word) post a time or two and the most salient idea seems to be that there are racial differences controlled by genetics and that some of the differences involve intelligence.
For our purposes, I can *stipulate* complete agreement with that argument. (Important note to fervent anti-racists: This does not mean that I necessarily agree with TBU on this. It is a standard debating tactic…allowing opponents to concentrate on other (more important??) issues that flow from the original argument.
It avoids arguments that “strain at gnats and swallow camels.”
I also know and can convincingly argue the main counterpoints:
1. There is wide variation within a race
2. Race is just a “construct”
3. The “one drop” rule
4. Most any other “standard” anti-racial argument
Anyway, let me concede your point totally right now. THERE ARE RACIAL DIFFERENCES CONTROLLED BY GENETICS AND SOME OF THEM INVOLVE INTELLIGENCE.
My first question is to you personally, as a fellow white guy. You acknowledge that there are races more intelligent than ours. How does it help you, me, and the US of A if we somehow manage to convince the Chinese (say) that they, as a race, are smarter, more adaptable, and/or more “civilized” than we.
I just don’t get how that helps your “cause,” if you’re a white supremacist.
The second question is, “What can you do with it.”
You *may* have a scientifically valid theory up there in all caps. But how can it REALLY, TRULY help us in US? I’ll admit it could help the Chinese, the Koreans, the Japanese, or any other “homogeneously racial” country…but not us.
I asked Vlad last week where he stood as regards, “walking the talk” about racial purity. If y’all are in Idaho in a compound dedicated to survival…well, cool, I guess I can understand, even admire that.
But from where I stand in North Georgia too much racial talk gets real old real fast.
When you (I think it was you) start talking about making a black colony out of Mississippi…well…
I start thinking about friends I have over there who are just as nice and Southern as I, but who could turn just as mean and Scotch Irish as me and my sons when it came to our families or our land.
It makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up a little bit to think an idea like that all the way through….and to think otherwise intelligent men are advocating for that very idea.
I forgot to add
The amusing little racial anecdote
I took a day off from work some years back to go with my (then) 8 year old son to “Olympic Days” at his elementary school.
He and I had walked to the broad jump pit. He squatted down, strained mightily, and jumped maybe 2.5 feet. He’s a “white man” in training. He can’t jump. Sometimes a stereotype is completely accurate!
The (white female) adult volunteer running the event asked him if he wanted to jump again.
“Sure!” So he takes another shot and jumps maybe 2.4 feet.
By this time a light complexioned little black girl has walked up. (BTW and I’m not making this up…this little girl seemed quite articulate and intelligent)
The little girl took her starting position…and with no hesitation or apparent effort jumped like a grasshopper clean out of the far end of the little broad jump pit they had set up.
The volunteer’s mouth and mine gaped simultaneously open for a second.
“You want to jump again, little girl?”
“No thank you, once was enough. Thank you though.’
Moral of the story.
Some differences are so obvious they don’t have to be discussed except as compliments.
Some differences are so obscure or divisive that they are best left unsaid.
Ok. That is a calm reasonable well-thought out response and merits a polite reply. Will look for various substantiating statistics later as the key point of genetically-derived variation is conceded. Think we can set aside the one-drop rule for now too, as that largely was a social construct. Yes, as you said, “1. There is wide variation within a race”, however what I am focused on are average differences in appearance, physiology, temperament etc. For example, young black males tend to have a lower proportion of body fat than other demographic elements. Asian males have lower average levels of testosterone than white and black males. I think certain features — large flat noses of negroes and large backsides of south and central African negroes, hottentots, and bushemen — are more than merely social constructs.
Now, we come to some new ideas. First, I will admit — heavens to Betsy — that I am in fact a racist but am, in some ways, not, in fact, a white supremacist. I am just, at this point, trying to get a few people to consider the idea that people differ genetically not only at the individual level, but at the level of populations as well. I mentioned that the Chinese were smarter in terms of having a higher average IQ than Europeans, particularly in visual-spatial intelligence, because that is what the research and anecdotal personal observation have indicated. Am not actually saying they are outright superior. The European standard deviation of IQ is larger than that of the Chinese so there are proportionally more morons and geniuses in the European and white American population than in the Chinese. Caucausians are generally more verbal and social than east Asians as well.
Now you come to a very important point: “The second question is, “What can you do with it.”
You *may* have a scientifically valid theory up there in all caps. But how can it REALLY, TRULY help us in US? I’ll admit it could help the Chinese, the Koreans, the Japanese, or any other “homogeneously racial” country…but not us.”
Well, just as Ben Franklin said that Americans were becoming different from the English and needed their own country, am also saying, in order to develop their societies, and individual potentials, Caucasians should have their own states (families, clans, tribes, territories etc) as well. Why do people see that as wrong? They don’t object to Africa being for Africans, or China for Chinese? Why not Germany for Germans, England for English, France for French etc? I would go farther and have designated territories for Celtic, Germanic, and Latin elements and even surviving tribal remnants like those of the Basques, Bretons, Welsch (Cimbri), Magyars, Lombards etc.
I am not in favor of American society as it is currently constructed. My mom’s side came here because the men did not want to fight in the Czar’s army. Am not sure why all of those on my dad’s side came here, but am fairly certain many of them were not satisfied with living conditions and religious matters in Britain and Ireland in the 17th -19th centuries. What am I saying is they came here largely due to push factor’s from their native lands rather than pull factor’s from America. Also the America in those days was different from that which exists now. My mom’s parents generation was also much more assimilationist than I am.
My dad’s mother Ruby Olive Bell was of Scotts Irish background too. I suggested Missippi as becoming a black territory because it is one of the blackest and the poorest states in the union and shipping most all those folks back to West Africa would be logistically difficult. Yes, some folks would be displaced, but believe families could make arrangements for adjusted territorial establishments.
perhaps he’ll adopt that handle, tho i doubt it.
maybe ‘ annoying geometrically’ ?
AA has done nothing for short basketball players, regardless of their skin color.
take a walk around UCLA or any UC campus…its like hong kong.
I was talking to a 50-ish guy sitting next to me on a plane who’s job was “special operations,” for the NSA. He gets called several times a year
for an assignment, often in Iraq or Afghanistan, and usually needs to create a team from people he knows in the business to carry out the operation. Actually, this time he was travelling
to train others in these procedures.
He said, “Pick those you trust, but you must trust those you pick (when in action).” It was clear that he was good at this.
My point (again) intelligence has multiple components. I know more than a few “intelligent” ones whose judgement and other abilities I would not rely on when push came to shove. Bickering about IQ points on a test devised by people who were good at devising written IQ tests is farcical.
-J
‘ Asian males have lower average levels of testosterone than white and black males’
o please…dont go on, next itll be ahem…
…..dick size?
how far did she jump? 8 feet? and how tall was she?
Hey Kevin,
As usual, my subtle story telling is not translating to the open internet as well as I might like.
Referencing tar balls and cleanup I said BP had been successful so far… then I said
MAYBE TOO SUCCESSFUL!
I’ll stand by that right now. I’m doing a little research on “indicator organisms” in shallow Gulf environments. And preparing a followup post concerning my observations on one SCUBA dive off one Gulf beach.
Let me just state my opinion, though:
If BP and the US of A manage to “get away with this spill,” we have ALL dodged a catastrophic life-altering bullet. And NONE OF US, even the “experts,” will know for certain about this until the Gulf goes through a few more long hot summers and a few more hurricane seasons.
And Kevin, with respect to:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
At any rate, who are these simpletons seeking to reduce this discussion to gender quips and other superficial knavery?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Don’t you go talkin’ ’bout my girlfrien’s, MAN!
I’m working on an idea that what’s wrong with the planet is the way our major cultures marginalize their feminine power.
I’m working on it….it’s not ready for publication…even on these threads.
But we do need females on the thread and “in the loop,” worldwide, when decisions about the future of the planet are made.
And myrtlemay…you said something last night about “taking off your corset.” I’m pretty sure it was a small joke about feminism or something. It seemed to make one poster upset in response,”makes no diff,” he said.
I, on the other hand, mentally heard the buttons on your bustier unsnap. And immediately began to wonder about how you might look without it.
;0)
I’m a guy!! Go figure!
Now let me go get a note from my wife before we plan to meet somewhere! 🙂 😉
“If I am so dumb, why is it then that I can so easily predict and influence your behavior and have been succesful at that since I was a small child.[?]-TBU
…And, emotionally, still enjoying being a small child. Continue with the blinded bliss… until you can’t. Have fun, it’s all good! Who’s for hide-and-go-purge?
**He said, “Pick those you trust, but you must trust those you pick (when in action).” It was clear that he was good at this.
My point (again) intelligence has multiple components. I know more than a few “intelligent” ones whose judgement and other abilities I would not rely on when push came to shove. Bickering about IQ points on a test devised by people who were good at devising written IQ tests is farcical.
-J **
Good points.
Words to [attempt to] live by.
Matthew Simmons, founder and chairman emeritus of Simmons & Company International, is a prominent of peak oil. Simmons was motivated by the 1973 energy crisis, , to create an investment banking firm catering to oil companies. In his previous capacity, he served as energy adviser to U.S. President George W. Bush. . He is a member of the National Petroleum Council and the Council on Foreign Relations..
Bush Cabal
The latest from Matt Simmons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwX9RXFRJD4
Incidentally, I had a dream that he was killed by a criminal syndicate after the oil spill occurred and before he started speaking about what was going on. He was ran over (by a barge, a piece of symbolism I would imagine) and it was set up to look like an accident. In addition to that, gangs of white collar thugs were chasing down civilians and beating them with Mayan war clubs in a fashion similar the game played in Apocalypto. In the end, the civilians as well as the crime lords were stranded on the shore with no escape.
Tree said
waaah, I don’t like society, waaaahhh!
Tree, you don’t get to structure society the way you want it. Germany is not for the Germans. It is for everyone who lives and works and pays taxes in Germany. England is not for the English, etc.
And the USA is for everybody who lives here because it is a country founded on ideas about equality, not on ideas about skin colors.
You make a big deal out of physiological differences between races. Someone else could come along and make the same argument about differences between Whites. Maybe all redheads should be sent to Iowa, all blonds to Utah, all brunettes to … you get the idea.
I don’t get to construct a society in which I determine where the “Bretons, Welsch (Cimbri), Magyars, Lombards etc.” are sent to live.
And you don’t get to send all Blacks to Mississippi.
Tree, join the real multicultural, globally interdependent world that actually exists … where we are all simply human beings doing the best we can.
Actually, a lot of folks don’t want a multicultural world with integration etc.
You said:
“Tree, join the real multicultural, globally interdependent world that actually exists … where we are all simply human beings doing the best we can.”
Actually, the societal groupings you suggest are meaningless as well as they are not based upon common historical experiences, affiliation, or connection.
“Tree, you don’t get to structure society the way you want it. Germany is not for the Germans. It is for everyone who lives and works and pays taxes in Germany. England is not for the English, etc.”
At least you didn’t talk about miscegenation this time. Do that again and I will really let you have it. I have just about had enough of you.
Just wanted to make sure my message got through:
Some folks don’t want diversity and multiculturalism. This bilge has just been pushed the last 45 years or so and is a historical aberration that will pass.
You said the following
“Tree, join the real multicultural, globally interdependent world that actually exists … where we are all simply human beings doing the best we can.”
These sorts of societies that you espouse just based upon employment and taxes have little meaning as they lack connections based upon relatedness, common historical experience, or a sense of place, family, history, or community. The modern mass democracies are unwieldy impersonal heterogenous overly bureacratic aglommerations with little in the way of intrinsic organic underpinnings.
You also said:
Tree, you don’t get to structure society the way you want it. Germany is not for the Germans. It is for everyone who lives and works and pays taxes in Germany. England is not for the English, etc.
At least you didn’t push for miscegenation this time. Go ahead and try that again and I will really let you have it. I have just about had enough of you.
So in other words, because we have been influenced, we are nobodies and have no rights? No right to have our own countries in other words? In fact we have accepted some influences and made our own use of them. Yes we got an alphabet from ancient Semites, perhaps Phonecians. Does that make us Phonecians? Did we write the same things that they wrote or would have written? No. Your idea that “our culture is their culture” is grotesque. One is reminded of the corrupt Francois Mitterand who said that Europe owes as much to Islam as it does to Christianity so “our house is their house”.
Here a thought experiment: what would your Chinese inlaws say if you “explained” to them that Chinese Culture has nothing to do with the Chinese? Think they might give you amazed looks of contempt as they turn away? The Chinese don’t feel the need to argue with obvious delusion. Like us they have been influenced and made their own use of those influences. And remember, you don’t have to accept massive immigration to take advantage of good ideas. They have taken much of our technology without taking us. There is a lesson here for the West.
Better yet: forget the thought experiment – actually make your argument and come back and tell us how it goes – if you dare. It will make for fascinating reading. As you know, the Chinese view themselves as the Kings of the Earth. Their hierarchy goes something like Chinese on top, followed by South Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Whites, Hindus, the lowly Malaysian Peoples (Indonesia, Phillipines, etc)
In summary, no one but the Chinese could have created Chinese Culture. And no but Europeans could have created European Culture. Both races produce powerful and prosperous States, but their the similarity ends. Their respectives world views and ethoses are very different. We are by far the more promethean. And this is both our great strenght and our great weakness. They are more grounded in every way – the ultimate survivors. Future East Asian Historians will tell of the downfall of the dog eyes (one of their names for us) – a briliant race that went to the moon but couldn’t love themselves enough to protect their borders and culture against dark skinned invaders.
I was re-reading a favorite book of mine, Ken Wilber’s “Sex, Ecology, Spirituality — the Spirit of Evolution.”
From the intro: “It is often said that in today’s modern and postmodern world, the forces of darkness are upon us. But I think not; in the Dark and the Deep there are truths that can always heal. It is not the forces of darkness but of shallowness that everywhere threaten the true, and the good, and the beautiful, and that ironically announce themselves as deep and profound. It is an exuberant and fearless shallowness that everywhere is the modern danger, the modern threat, and that everywhere nonetheless calls to us as savior.
We might have lost the Light and the Height; but more frightening, we have lost the Mystery and the Deep, the Empitiness and the Abyss, and lost it in a world dedicated to surfaces and shadows, exteriors and shells, whose prophets lovingly exhort us to dive into the shallow end of the pool head first. ”
All consevatives have to thank Mr Breibart for his exquistie timing in release of the tape. He has taken the self righteous accusations of racism by the NAACP and the Left and thrown it back in their hideous faces.
Now there are calls to reinstate the commisioner. Would a White caught making a statement like that about Blacks ever be reinstated? We all know the answer: they would be ruined forever. Blacks and Liberals have shown no mercy and no mercy should now be shown to them.
Now we are having a real dialogue on race, but not quite what Mr Obama was thinking of. His version is just Whites bowing their heads and accepting to pick up ever more of the burden of the Black Race – ultimately to be turned into de facto slaves.
I know Liberals think all racial problems would cease if Whites would just accept slavery and ultimate annihalation via miscegenation. But you see, we’re not going to. You people are going to have to fight for every inch from here on in. And know this Liberals – you haven’t seen anything yet. We haven’t even scarcely begun to fight.
Both oil and methane are less dense than salt water. As soon as they are released from the floor of the Gulf, they will float to the surface. They don’t form pools on the sea floor. Methane can combine with water to form an ice looking solid, only if the temperature is low enough, and the pressure high enough. These deposits will remain there UNLESS the ocean warms enough to release them, in which case they could contribute to VERY rapid global warming. Sell your beachfront estate NOW. Wiki ‘methane calthrate’ to read about doomsday.
Huge amounts of methane gas float to the surface of the Pacific Ocean, off of the California coast, continuously. It was shown on TV. Simmons may be making a lot of money selling BP stock short.
Maybe the stress of knowing what will begin to happen (peak oil induced near total economic collapse) during the second half of this decade, has driven him off the edge. I must admit that knowing that we are all riding with Thelma & Louise, is a bit stressful.
I just this morning checked the ABCNews website. Nary a word about the GOM oil disaster. So, folks, it’s over. Nothing to watch here. Move on.
OK Racial Theorists:
I admit defeat, at least temporarily. If you guys want to talk about your racial theories; have at it!
I just don’t see how taking racial talk down to small theoretical limits benefits me, my family, my State, my Country, or my Planet.
I’d rather talk about survival; both short and long term.
TBU posited *last?* week that there will not be a short exciting collapse. I understand the arguments….that’s all I’ll admit right now.
I’ve probably upset both Doomers and Sliders on these threads. (Those in those groups who actually read my posts anymore…jury’s still out on that one?)
But I’ve prepared for both eventualities.
And now I’m working with all my might to STOP or at least “slow down,” either eventuality.
For some REAL, PRACTICAL REASONS.
Anybody in the world, anywhere, want to talk about this?
Yours ’till later boys and girls,
C
You know that manufacturing one ton of Anhydrous Ammonia requires 33,500 cubic feet of Natural Gas, don’t you? SO as an alternative energy source, we are just manufacturing it from fossil fuel.
Don’t get me started on Ethanol.
I’m with you PoC.
All this racial talk is a waste of time, at least here. Essentially, IMHO, it all comes down to an mountain of statistics viewed and interpretted thru the lens (bias) of the observer.
Here in Southern Ontario, in particular in Toronto, we live in an extremely multi-cultural society. Over the past several decades, white dominance has dissipated. On the most part, people get along quite well. Everybody generally buys into the multi-cultural ideology. It is a construct of a pluralistic, consumer society. I suspect once the consumer part of it evaporates, tribalism will replace it. There’s certainly ample grist here for our sociologist posters to ruminate over for years.
It all tends to remind me of Nero fiddling while Rome burned, or that hapless quartet depicted in the movie “Titanic”.
With all due respect VK, asoka, TBU et al, aren’t there other sites to have these types of conversations/debates other than this one? Many of us have expressed this concern. Personally I’d like to focus on what people are doing to deal with TLE, and the issues that TLE raises. As I stated above, I think it’s fair to say that in extreme times (whenever they arrive) people will resort to some form of tribalism for security: case closed. If you want to discuss how that manifests itself in TLE, then go fot it.
“With all due respect VK, asoka, TBU et al, aren’t there other sites to have these types of conversations/debates other than this one?”
Moot question. The racists are here … on this site.
So, what to do?
Ignore them and they have free reign.
Respond to them and it encourages them.
What should I do when faced with racist rants demeaning Blacks?
Asoka, do the same thing we whites do when we hear racist rants against whites: generally ignore them. Rants one way or another center on groups, be they black, white, immigrant (both legal and illegal). But we all know that in our personal experiences we deal with individuals, not groups. In any case, if you have something to add to your understanding of the TLE and what we might do to mitigate it, speak up. Sure, there might be a racial dimension to it, but that will probably not be the biggest factor in the survival of civilization as we know it.
Simmons may be making a lot of money selling BP stock short.
=================
Assuming the short position numbers provided by somebody a couple of days ago are correct (namely, 8000 shrs at an avg price of $42.50) with BP currently trading at $36.60, Simmons is up $47,200. That should pay maybe a calendar quarter or two of property tax on his house … if that is what you mean by a lot.
Apparently, when the Chinese filled the Three Gorges Dam, there was a measurable wobble to the earth’s spin. This is the level of “tinkering” we are doing to this planet.
Holy shit! Talk about a Thelma and Louise! Enough is enough.
http://ideonexus.com/2008/03/06/future-wonder-of-the-world-three-gorges-dam/
Asoka, I should have added that ignoring rants does not allow the perpetrators “free reign”. I took not some months ago on this blog that for a while, at least, nobody responded to the most notable of the contributors whose positions revolve around race. What was remarkable is that over time, the blog ceased displaying its usual bifurcation: those who center on race, and those who center on the TLE and its attributes. All of the discussion centered on the TLE and allied issues. What a relief. So, Asoka, show your mettle by not allowing yourself to become incensed. The off-topic material will start to abate and fizzle.
What should I do when faced with racist rants demeaning Blacks?
===============
Here’s a suggestion: Admit that you’re White and join them.
“Sure, there might be a racial dimension to it, but that will probably not be the biggest factor in the survival of civilization as we know it.” -A.K.
That’s my opinion as well. I think those who would turn [in the first instance] to a “race-based” tribe would be long-run losers in the survival deal. To limit your gene pool and brain/skill pool is foolish in the extreme, especially if we’re talking species “bottleneck”. Why folks consumed with racial purity are so consistently suicidal is a puzzlement; but not one that worries me much. Other fish to fry, etc. Why try to saddle a crocodile? It’s the very definition of a futile (and pointless) pursuit.
Words of wisdom, Al. Like so many words of wisdom in this life, difficult to implement and driven by a compex and nuanced situation.
You see, much of what is currently going on in this nation, the madness, the RW lies so easily laundered into “conventional wisdom” by the relentless zealotry of Authoritarian Followers (concentrated in this nation on the Right, like most nations in history, since “The Left” did not even exist until 1776 – though certainly since then we have seen no shortage of LW Authoritarianism either, just not in this country), and all the attendant destruction, from our financial system to our laughably misnamed “Liberal Media”, is a result of people collectively doing as you suggest, and ignoring the bullshit while it piles higher and deeper.
It’s a paradox. Follow your advice and cede more psycho-linguistic territory to RW Authoritarian Zealots (as if they haven’t won so much already, as Orwell prophesied they would in “1984”), or play their game which one can never win because arguing with Authoritarians is…well, fruitless, due to the inherent nature of the Authoritarian Follower – unmoved by facts, worshipfully obedient to whomever they cede authority, marked by mental compartmentalization and cognitive dissonance, ever ready to form a “posse” against The Other, The Outsider, among other things.
It is an unenviable choice, a lose-lose. Which is and always has been the object of Authoritarians of all stripes against their opposition.
Here’s a question for you, why do LW Communist Authoritarians despise Liberals as much as RW Authoritarians like Nazis and Breitbart-types do?
It’s true In Soviet Russia, the Liberals were on the Right. Look it up. Understand the answer to this question and human history becomes a good bit more understandable, I think.
Ironically, the exponential explosion of the Internet and other media technologies gives modern authoritarian leaders delivery technology to their followers and the rest of the generally disinterested people (which is most of them) that Hitler and Stalin could only dream of. Advances in marketing, PR and mass psychology give them tools of subtlety and power that Hitler and Stalin could only dream of.
On an individual level, a single blog level, you are absolutely correct. On a societal level, history has demonstrated time and time again that the attitude of “Just ignore that little authoritarian and he’ll go away,” causes.
Actually, that “little authoritarian” won’t go away and will often torture and kill many innocents in his own nation and/or others when he reaches unchecked power. True whether it be Stalin or Mao on the Left or Hitler, Papa Doc, The Shah of Iran, or the Bush-Cheney Axis (all the way down to the Breitbarts) on the Right.
I just wanted to clarify how I believe your words of wisdom are both right and wrong. How calm mature wisdom is often blasted aside with ease by Authoritarian Zealotry, doubly so once it has reach a certain tipping point due to lack of opposition & understanding of the true nature of the problem.
Having said that, let me assure you I have no intention of responding to the racists and authoritarian followers on either side if they try to engage me, because…on an individual basis, on the basis of this one blog in a tiny corner of the internet, you are 100% correct.
OK, now, back to TLE and Simmons!
When I think of the TLE from my air conditioned office connected to a sophisticated web of electronics, satellites, machines, switching mechanisms, and delicate infrastructure, I truly wonder if this luxury of communication will remain? Or for how long?
I also think of the medications I take. Very few, thankfully, but necessary none-the-less. It is a very sophisticated system and infrastructure that keeps my internal biology in line. What happens when all the systems associated with getting that medication to me start to break down? What happens to society when anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, cholestoral regulating drugs and other medications that keep us “together” aren’t readily available — perhaps only to the rich?
Everything in our modern world is precariously balanced on an entire system of interconnectivity — which requires a multitude of energy inputs in order to deliver.
The magnesium and silcone and other precious metals incorporated into this computer I am using come from around the world. Likewise is the case with ingrediants for medications and the machinery required to manufacture them.
When parts of those systems start to falter, become drastically more expensive, or potentially collapse, what is going to start to happen?
I think the potential for things unravelling precipitously faster than any of us could imagine is quite high. Imagine hundreds of thousands of psychiatric patients no longer on meds. Or heart patients without blood pressure control. Or diabetics without all the needles. What if the manufacture of computers and devices to facilitate electronic communication becomes limited to the point that few of us will be able to partake?
One could argue, that we’d just go back to the days before electronic communication, but unfortunately so much else of the new paradigm will be different that the old paradigm cannot be re-instated.
We all sit here in our collective bubbles, believing that we’ll simply get along with less of the status quo. But, as JHK predicts and I concur, the reality will be much more messy than what our current cultivated, cushy positions of observance can imagine.
The big question is, when?
It’s fascinating, the racist strategy of generalizing for the ultimate purpose of separating. Group em together so you can move them apart. A far cry and one step lacking from the Beaux-Arts tradition of the French academy where process moved from the general (initial conception) to the specific (accentuating variety within the greater whole) and then back to the general for the purpose of unifying and harmonizing the greater whole. The spirit of the of the former strategy embodied back by the likes of Goebbels, Himmler and Adolph; the latter by the likes of Ingres and Bouguereau. One for death, destruction, and ugliness; the other for beauty, harmony, and the promotion of racial/gender/economic justice.
I seriously doubt the militant racial dogma of VK and TBU are revealed face to face and hand to hand in public or even revealed on the world wide web with a real name and face to empathetically stamp a courageous strength of conviction. On the other hand, who would show up for the ugly message in real life outside of a few malcontents. Not that they should be denied there right to express: discord reserves a very small place for itself in the grand harmonic scheme of things. So let the small people gather and express themselves and let the militant racists puff their pugnacious chests out under the anonymous umbrella of the internet.
VK and TBU are smart guys, blessed with a lot of intelligence. But smart guys are a dime a dozen and their inflexibility is more akin to the death march of the stiff twig easily snapped in a country of changing demographics. So they will always move in small, fearful, and lifeless circles when not attempting to co-opt the dialogue of inclusive internet forums like a couple of miller-moths flapping around the light.
What really terrifies and traumatizes the quivering spirits of VK and TBU is that human beings ultimately gravitate towards variety and life…to the sights and sounds of the holy spirit being channeled through a Master of the Universe, in whatever form that happens to take. To the genius who flies far above the structured confines of an IQ test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-0gm9fxOOk
JHK wrote:
As many have brought up here, Simmons is a businessman, not a scientist. Which is why I trust his assertion about BP consistently lying to we Peasants far more than I buy his opinion on the integrity of the wellbore.
In the end, it is almost a given that the gusher has spewed far more oil than the highest Corporate Government estimate (about 175 milllion gallons, I believe), which I would take as probably the lowest limit on how much oil has gushed.
It is almost a given that far more injury and ruin has been inflicted on Gulf residents by the oil and the toxic dispersant than Corporate Media is telling us.
It IS a given that, the longer we move away from the actual event, the long-term effects on Gulf Residents will be disappeared by the Corporate Media to the extent that it is possible in an information-saturated society.
What many call JHK’s “doomerism” is coming out in his running with the idea that there will be a Big Explosion that catastrophically underlines the reality of the TLE. The reality is that this is unlikely to happen for reasons of physics and chemistry, many of which have already been brought up here.
The reality is that things will probably go on as they have been going on for 30 years, since the human species went into overshoot. Relatively slowly, unevenly, and with the Aristocratic Elite displaying a seemingly enormous power to keep the Fantasy going and delay the oncoming of the TLE to it’s very physical limits, buying more time as they position themselves to not be a part of the coming dieoff keyhole, or at least to be comfortable and serviced by we Peasants while it’s happening.
I guess that makes me a Slider, in the parlance of progressorconserve.
We could all use a “sliding machine” (as in the old scifi show “Sliders”) to abandon this eaten apple core of a world before TLE and diedoff hits in earnest, maybe as much as a century away, if the Aristocratic Elite are lucky.
Of course, we would immediately begin destroying the world into which we slid, as the same old human history repeats again and again and again the same way it has been now for 8000 years and more.
Enviro,
It’s stunning to think that the Chinese moved 18 million people to accommodate the Three Gorges Dam. I wonder what kind of quality control the dam builders employed since it was built for a mere $24 billion? I have a bad feeling about the whole project.
Picking up on your comment and tying it in to Hancock1863’s predecing comment, specifically about the Aristocratic Elite, we’re just numbers at his point. 18 million. 26 million. 345 million. 6 billion. Whatever.
The world governments, essentially controlled and influenced by corporations, will be happy to use military force when the masses start getting surly about the oppressive behaviours the elite subject them to.
Will do. Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it. Back to TLE and WMBH.
On July 19, 2010 at 4:46 PM Qshtik said:
On July 22, 2010 at 11:19 AM Qshtik said:
$340,000 or $47,200, either way it’s illegal gain if Simmons was trying to make BP go bust in order to profit on his shorts.
And it is a bit worrisome that Qshtik, who claims to have decades of experience as a auditor of defense contracts, cannot decide if it is $47,200 or $340,000, but in both cases he shrugs his shoulders at unethical behavior that results in illegal gain.
There are about 30 people out of 6 billion who really matter to me. I hope we can all duck under the radar while the rest of y’all duke it out. Whatever is left will be intriguing as potential mates, or as competitors. Since none of my people will be in the bunkers I send to the the depths a waft of H1N1, Legionnaires, and jock itch. May Skull and Bones be nothing left but that.
The beauty I will miss is compensated by the absurdity I cannot deny. Humans, who are magnificent, suck.
Duck and cover, mes amis. See ya on the other side.
Sans malice, shecky.
Good questions, E. There are no answers that are universal, i.e., no way we can save everyone. What you are indicating is the urgent need for each individual to try to simplify and position oneself to sustain life when TSHTF.
To the end individuals will naturally make different choices. Unfortunately, the health-related situations are the most difficult, if not impossible, to reverse. We will all die; those with health issues dependent on medication disrupted by TLE will die sooner.
For the non-health issues all we can do is try to minimize our personal dependency on petroleum.
In my case I have already learned Spanish and I am learning to build using adobe construction to build in a climate (in South America) which requires no heating and no cooling year round. (places near the equator at certain altitudes qualify) Again, I repeat, I know this is not a solution for everyone: it is my personal solution.
Where I am moving you can live on fresh food from a farmers’ market for less than US$100 a month, to supplement what I don’t grow myself.
I have also accustomed my body to fasting so “three squares” a day is not necessary. I do fine now with one meal a day, like General McChrystal, and my lifestyle follows http:www.fast-5.com
I think eating lean, losing weight, engaging in exercise, etc. will also minimize medical issues.
A long time ago I got a vasectomy, so I have no expenses related to children. My biggest challenge right now is to downsize from the North American lifestyle and simplify my life even more. I have posted many links on voluntary simplicity, minimalist lifestyle, etc.
Finally, I am looking forward to the day the world wide web system breaks down, and Internet is a thing of the past. When we go back having more time for spiritual life and more time for sharing culture together that we ourselves create: storytelling, group meditation, games we make from natural materials, not plastic, and not dependent on batteries.
I shouldn’t even bother responding to you since you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. But anyway …
1) The $340,000 figure is the maximum possible profit if BP stock drops to zero. The $47,200 figure is the amount by which Simmons’s position had appreciated at a point earlier today when the stock was trading at $36.60/shr.
2) Neither Bill Simpson’s comment nor my reply had anything to do with the legality or illegality of Simmon’s short position. This, again, is an instance of you hijacking a comment and twisting it into one of your personal pet peeves. In this case, I guess, stock market speculation. But anyway … It is NOT illegal nor unethical to say “I have an 8000 share short position in BP and I think the stock will become worthless.” Similar things are said all day everyday on CNBC. If you firmly believe it is illegal I suggest you call Director of the SEC, Robert Khuzami but don’t be surprised if you hear him chuckle.
3) Simmons does not have the power to make BP go bust.
Asoka, please stop talking out of your ass and go back to making your mud pie house.
Simmons spoke with Bloomberg Television yesterday. He said that while the GOM oil leak has been stopped from coming out of the riser, there is another more important leak five to ten miles away caused by the explosion of the blow-out preventer.
Mr. Simmons said, “What we don’t know anything about is the open hole which is caused by the drill bit when it tossed the blow-out preventer way out of the hole…and 120,000 minimum of toxic poison has now covered the floor of the Gulf of Mexico. So what they’re talking about is the biggest environmental cover-up ever. And they knew that that well, that riser, would finally deplete. And then they could say it’s over. And unfortunately, we now have killed the Gulf of Mexico.”
When speaking about implication for BP, he said, “When people find out the magnitude of the story, I don’t know if we can technically clean up the Gulf but it would cost at least a trillion dollars.”
He added, “I think the Transocean [staff] need Congressional Medals of Hero for this…I am really disgusted. Other than John Hofmeister, the retired president of Shell America, he’s the only other person in the industry who I’ve seen to speak out.”
Mr. Simmons is putting his money where his mouth is and is shorting the stock, saying, ““You bet I did. Because I thought BP was going to go under. I’ve been saying that for months and months and when I read that 20 of the 24 Wall Street analysts had a ‘buys,’ I said ‘ That’s ridiculous, I’m going to short them.’ I’ve never shorted a stock in my life before.”
Yeah, and your point?
Your efforts outlined in your 4th, 5th and 6th paragraphs are commendable. I’ve read Voluntary Simplicity. I think I need to read it again.
Which brings up an issue and subsequently a lot of questions.
Everyone here talks about WTSHTF.
When will that be? Or has it already arrived?
Many here have admitted they are over 50 and have only 10-20 years of life left (based on average western life expectancies). Do you all think it’s going to unravel within that time span? What do we have? 2 years? 5? 25? I look back at 2000 and look around now and not much has changed. Do we really need to save our childrens asses? Or our own?
To me the word ‘racist’ is totally meaningless.It is just another word added to our vocabulary by some social engineer with an agenda,so that you all forget about the daily real problems and get into each others hair,fighting among each other,who is and is not a so-called racist.To all you non-racists Hornblowers,may I suggest, move into the ghetto and show your conviction!
HI.
Well, on another angle, how do folks feel about the federal government usurping the powers of the states. We don’t really have a federal system anymore. We have an over-reaching federal government with the states, counties, and cities having very little power. That was not what the founders of the USA had intended this country to be either. The exeuctive and judicial branches have been particularly over-reaching. I would like to see the powers of the federal government reduced and have the states and localities govern more as they see fit. In particular, the one-size fits all education system is unwieldy and oppressive.
Hmm. For those of us who are white, would that be a black ghetto? And for those who are Hispanic, would that be a Vietnamese ghetto? And for those of us who are wealthy, a poor ghetto? (But that’s not race. Oopps.) For those of us are straight, a gay ghetto? (Mind you, the sheer numbers would overwhelm that particular ghetto to the point of it not being a gay ghetto anymore.)
Ghettos are more a state of the collective mind. One doesn’t have to move to enter or leave a ghetto.
‘Future East Asian Historians will tell of the downfall of the dog eyes (one of their names for us) – a briliant race that went to the moon but couldn’t love themselves enough to protect their borders…’
I agree with half of this but chindia has 3 billion, and india may be the first country with 2 billion [ whole earth was 2 billion in my parents or gparents days
I agree with JHK, china is running out of water! also China would like to do to india/ africa what it did to tibet…annihilate the people / culture and grab the resources.
in other words no one has a crystal ball, maybe china will be the first to go down!
jdfarmer said: “
Simmons participated in the University of Maine’s Ocean Energy Institute, a project to develop off-shore wind power facilities.
Then Simmons entertained Republican Senator Susan Collins and Secretary of Energy Steven Chu at the Institute.
Chu was impressed with Simmon’s vision of off-shore wind turbines on floating platforms with blades that stretch 80 stories high. Each wind turbine will drive a 50 megawatt power plant that will drive a process that’s like electrolysis, creating liquid ammonia that can be sent back to land as a fuel.
NO FOSSIL FUEL IS REQUIRED TO PRODUCE LIQUID AMMONIA! SCALE IS NOT A PROBLEM EITHER.
“This is such a great resource,” said Simmons of the project, which has been in development for three years.
exeuctive ?
‘Jim has never met a doomsday scenario he didn’t like’..actually with regards to USA borders and govt hes much too cheery!
even if JHK is wrong, so what?
Vlad, you’re reading way, way too much into what I said.
So in other words, because we have been influenced, we are nobodies and have no rights? No right to have our own countries in other words? – Vlad
We are somebodies, we have rights. Recall some of my previous posts: I’m no relativist. Many of my rants involve defending and preserving our cultural heritage.
Look at it this way. I think that nobody would contest the idea that ballet as an art form is part of Russian culture. Yet ballet had its origins in Italy. But it doesn’t mean that Russians aren’t allowed to borrow it and make it their own. Same with classical music and opera. I’m no musicologist but my understanding is that classical music and opera also had their origins in Italy. But IMO some of the most sublime classical music was composed in France. And what about Beethoven? A German. Listen to Italian classical/opera and listen to the German variety. In my limited listening the Italian variety sounds emotional, melodic, exuberant whereas the German variety is deep, intense and serious. Germans borrowed and made it their own. Same with the French. Ever listen to Debussy?
Similarly European/North American civilizations borrowed ideas from non Europeans and made them their own. This doesn’t diminish or devalue our own cultural heritage in the slightest.
Your idea that “our culture is their culture” is grotesque. – Vlad
And where did you read this? I didn’t write it or imply it. But people are free to borrow our ideas and make them their own just as we’re free to borrow theirs. Look at China. The Chinese are lustily grabbing from us every idea that suits them. Who won the battle of ideas? We did. The Chinese are imitating the west as fast as they humanly can. Plus their middle class is getting to the point where they have something to lose and they will want to protect what they’ve accumulated. So watch for further societal developments wrt human rights, rule of law, democracy. They will borrow from us in these areas too.
Here a thought experiment: what would your Chinese inlaws say if you “explained” to them that Chinese Culture has nothing to do with the Chinese? – Vlad
Where did you get this? You must have been reading somebody else’s post.
Qshtik, go away. You add nothing substantial to this blog.
Why do you persist in soliciting my response after you stated
Yet, you continue to respond. And you continue to try to understand my posts, which apparently are beyond your ability to comprehend.
Go back to making lots of money in the market.
to supplement what I don’t grow myself.
=================
I’m pretty certain you mean “to supplement what I grow myself.”
“I’m no musicologist but my understanding is that classical music and opera also had their origins in Italy.”
Italy has contributed greatly to the world. I love Italians and hope to one day visit Italy.
I hope this is not feeding the off-topic discussions too much. I just wanted to acknowledge that Italy has been fantastic in its cultural contributions whether it be art, music, literature, etc.
If TSHTF I will be sure to be spending more time with Italian-authored books (Dante’s Inferno seems apppropriate!) during TLE.
Qshtik, you are correct. My error is unforgiveable. I am forever in your debt for bringing it to my attention. What would I do without you and your OCD correcting my grammar, punctuation, usage and spelling? I shudder to imagine.
Funzel, no doubt some really crafty social engineers deceived you into making THAT comment in order to stir up some confusion on the internet to fulfill their own agenda, because what you said really makes no sense. What would moving into the ghetto prove? That poverty creates strife and differences, is that what you are trying to say?
CORRECTION: My error is unforgivable.
I’ve had many visions also.
Has it been done?
What happens when a ship full of ammonia dumps into the ocean?
‘To me the word ‘racist’ is totally meaningless’
Not to me, its a word used to ‘ shut yr opponent up’.
No, what creates poverty and strife are the people who live in the ghettos. Wherever blacks and Latinos predominate strife and poverty follow. Inferior violent– brown and black skinned — morons create their own misery. Wheverever white people go they create prosperity. Only whites and East Asians and Jews are capable of creating high culture these days. There were some other caucasoids and central and south american indians and Asiatic Indians who created middling cultures as is befitting their middling levels of intelligence with iqs in the mid 80’s by and large.
Geoff Harris
Sacramento, California
gharris938@aol.com
silmarilion123@yahoo.com
Kevin Trudeau is cool wrote:
Funzel, no doubt some really crafty social engineers deceived you into making THAT comment in order to stir up some confusion on the internet to fulfill their own agenda, because what you said really makes no sense. What would moving into the ghetto prove? That poverty creates strife and differences, is that what you are trying to say?
So it has been. 2000 tonnes to date that I can find. Nice. World ammonia production currently is 110,000,000 tonnes. But scale shouldn’t be a problem.
And dumping ammonia into water liberates the Nitrogen, and acidifies the water. Likely no appreciable scale, like oil int the gulf.
Have fun with this comrades. Here is another thought to think about from that enlightenment-rich site American Rennaissance.
http://www.amren.com/ar/1996/02/index.html
Now, really do you libtards think that house music, hip hop and rap are at a level with the work of Mozart, Bach and Bethovan? What great architectural monuments have been built by native sub-Saharan Africans. Why, oh why, did the Australian aborigines have such a markedly inferior culture. Might it have something to do with the fact that thier iqs average around 62 or 63. Note that the bushemen and pygmies have even lower iqs, averaging in the mid 50’s. They certainly haven’t contributed much to civilization either. I will acknowledge that their way of life was sustainable like other browsing and forgaging animals.
The quote follows. Pay particular attention to the fact that the inferior morons are out-breeding and invading the territories of the northern races. Do you want the US to look like Sau Paulo or Europe like Timbuktu. How about Mogadishu or Lagos?
Ultimately, of course, it makes no difference whether the races of man diverged 30,000 or 300,000 years ago. The fact remains that the differences are real, and clearly reflect differing capacities to build and maintain civilization. Today, the work of millennia is being undone as the less intelligent races not only outbreed the more intelligent but push their way into the homelands of the northern races.”
Here is more. The cultural and intellectual decline in America is due to the genetic decline of the morons out-breeding the more intelligent:
http://www.amren.com/ar/1996/02/index.html
ime
American Renaissance magazine
Vol 7, No. 2 February 1996
CONTENTS
The Origin of Races, Part I
Book Review: The Decline of the Best
AR in the Public Eye
Temple of Doom
Lady Role Models
O Tempora, O Mores!
Letters from Readers
COVER STORY
The Origin of Races, Part I
Biology will prevail against all attempts to abolish it.
by Michael W. Masters
“If everyone is my brother, I have no brothers.”
— Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
It has become fashionable in certain circles to write as if race were not a legitimate biological category but merely a social invention. Like many liberal assertions, the fact that this is a flat contradiction of common sense is apparently no impediment. “The concept of race is in disrepute now,” says Jim Davis, professor emeritus at Illinois University. [Kenneth Cole, There’s really no such thing as race, more scientists say, Detroit News, June 28, 1995.] “Anthropologists are not saying that humans are the same, but race does not help in understanding how they are different,” adds Leonard Lieberman of Central Michigan University.
The purpose of these denials, of course, is to destroy the legitimacy of policies or practices that recognize the reality of race. As Soloman Katz of the University of Pennsylvania puts it, “No one denies the social reality of race; the question is what happens to the social reality when the biological ideas that underpin it vanish.” [Robert Hotz, Is the Concept of Race a Relic? LA Times, April 15, 1995, p. A1.]
Is race really just an illusion? Except for a small but energetic group of academics and journalists, just about everyone agrees that there are three major racial groups: Mongoloids, Negroids and Caucasoids. Some would add others: aborigines of Australia and New Guinea; Bushmen of East Africa; American Indians; etc. There are also many hybrids. Dark-skinned Caucasoids of India, for example, were formed from a 1500 B.C. influx of Caucasians who then mixed with earlier natives despite a caste system intended to prevent miscegenation. Genetic studies also show surprising divergence between Northeast Asians and Southeast Asians, likewise suggesting possible hybridization of one or the other group.
Man, the Upright Ape
The origins of race cannot be understood without some knowledge of the evolutionary origins of man himself, a subject that has been studied for many decades.
It has become fashionable to write as if race were not a legitimate biological category.
The first great scientific problem was to determine which came first, large brains or upright posture. Charles Darwin argued that bipedalism and large brains evolved together, along with the invention of stone weapons that could not be used unless arms and hands were free from locomotion. Use of weapons led to increased social interaction, which in turn led to increased brain size.
Darwin has been proven wrong. In the late 1960s, blood protein research showed that humans diverged from apes about seven million years ago. Early hominids are known from fossil finds to have been bipedal from four to as much as seven million years ago. Since use of tools — a sign of growing intelligence — began only about 2.5 million years ago, bipedalism must have come before large brains.
But what caused proto-hominids to walk upright? Many scientists think it may have been a geologically unique event — the formation of the mountainous Great Rift Valley region about 10 million years ago. This created a dry, isolated ecological system in East Africa by interrupting the flow of moist air from the west. This gave rise to a grassy savannah, which was dramatically different from the tropical rain forests in which tree-dwelling apes evolved. For the apes trapped in this newly formed environment, bipedal movement conferred survival advantages in finding food and avoiding enemies.
The first bipedal hominid was Australopithecus (“southern ape”), which lived in Africa from about seven million to one million years ago. The oldest species believed to be ancestral to humans is Australopithecus afarensis, a small biped that retained many of the anatomical features of tree-dwelling apes. East African fossils have been found that are three to four million years old. Lucy, the most famous example, was found by Donald Johanson in Ethiopia in 1974. Australopithecus africanus appeared later, 2.3 to three million years ago, possessing an elongated skull and a steeper forehead — features more like today’s humans. Australopithecus africanus’ cranial capacity was about 400 cubic centimeters, less than one-third that of modern humans.
The Cerebral Rubicon
The earliest fossil to bear the name Homo was found by Jonathan Leaky at Olduvai Gorge in Tanzania in 1970. He found a cranium fragment that was much thinner than any from the known australopithecine species. It had smaller cheek teeth and, more important, greatly increased cranial capacity. Though Leaky’s find had a capacity of about 650 cubic centimeters, subsequent fossils placed the average at about 800 cc, well above the “cerebral Rubicon” of 750 cc first proposed for genus Homo by British anthropologist Sir Arthur Keith. The first member of the human family was named Homo habilis, or “handy man,” because it emerged coincident with the earliest known use of stone tools, about 2.5 million years ago.
About 1.7 million years ago Homo habilis was replaced by Homo erectus. In The Origin of Humankind, Richard Leaky wrote: “Homo erectus was the first human species to use fire; the first to include hunting as a significant part of its subsistence; the first to be able to run as modern humans do; the first to make stone tools according to some definite mental template; and the first to extend its range beyond Africa.”
Dr. Leaky appears to have been wrong about the final point. Fossils were recently found in central China that are at least 1.9 million years old and which have been identified as Homo habilis, the direct ancestor of Homo erectus. The crude stone tools found with the fossils are very similar to those of Homo habilis excavated at Olduvai Gorge.
Homo erectus.
Africa remains the origin of the very oldest proto-human fossils, but the Chinese find raises two intriguing possibilities. One is that Homo erectus actually evolved in Asia and then migrated back to Africa. The other is that Asian strains of man (and perhaps others) have been evolving outside of Africa for nearly two million years. [John Wilford, Bones in China put new light on old humans, NYT, 11/16/95, p. A8.]
Homo erectus may have had spoken language and may also have mated for life. Australopithecines were markedly dimorphic — males and females differed in size — suggesting that dominant males monopolized available females. Homo erectus males and females were nearly the same size, which some scholars regard as evidence of pair bonding.
Homo erectus had a cranial capacity of between 900 and 1100 cc and developed a rich variety of stone artifacts. These are known today as the Acheulean culture, named after the French village, St. Acheul, where important finds from this culture were made. Although no physical remains of Homo erectus have been found in Europe or West Asia, Acheulean artifacts suggest the presence of Homo erectus in those areas. These artifacts have not been found in East Asia although Homo erectus fossils have been found, indicating that East Asian Homo erectus may have been less advanced than its African and European cousins. This finding is consistent with the possibility that Homo erectus may have evolved in Asia and migrated back to Europe and Africa.
About 300,000 years ago, the first hominids appeared with a large enough cranial capacity — 1200 to 1500 cc — to merit the name Homo sapiens (modern European males average over 1400 cc). Covering most of the Old World, these archaic humans were more robust than today’s variety, with larger teeth, thicker skulls, etc. Neanderthal Man, a European variant named for Germany’s Neander Valley — site of an 1856 skull find — appeared about 150,000 years ago.
He had a low, sloping forehead, a receding chin, and heavy brow ridges. He probably traveled in bands of no more than 30, and his maximum population is not likely to have exceeded a few tens of thousands. He appears to have buried his dead and may have practiced cannibalism.
Neanderthal man is probably not an ancestor of modern man; both are thought to have descended from Homo erectus, with the divergence taking place as many as 200,000 years ago. Neanderthal man disappeared from Europe around 30,000 years ago. He may have been driven off or exterminated by more advanced humans, or he may have passed on his genes by breeding with them.
Some anthropologists believe that remnants of these early Neanderthal-like races still survive in isolated areas of the world. Carleton Coon once said of New Guinean aborigines that they were so thick of brow it looked like they were still sloughing off erectus traits.
Origins of Race
Neanderthal man.
There are two theories of how Homo sapiens evolved from Homo erectus and/or archaic humans: the “multiregional” theory and the “replacement” theory. The multiregional theory holds that today’s races derive from local Homo erectus populations, and the recent Chinese find suggests even more ancient origins. Migration and interbreeding — a process known as “gene flow” — would have prevented these local populations from diverging into entirely separate species. Defenders of the “multiregional” theory, such as Carleton Coon and Milford Wolpoff, cite fossil evidence. For example, there are similarities, such as round skulls and shovel-shaped incisors, between modern Chinese and an East Asian variant of Homo erectus.
The replacement theory holds that the ancestors of modern humans arose in Africa between 140,000 and 200,000 years ago and spread over the earth, replacing all previous hominids without interbreeding with them. Those that entered Eurasia subsequently evolved into the diverse non-African races of mankind as a result of further evolution in their new environments. Supporting evidence includes DNA studies suggesting common ancestry of people of different races that is far more recent than would be the case if evolution from Homo erectus had been “multiregional”.
Anatomically modern humans appear in the fossil record virtually simultaneously in East Africa and the Middle East, about 100,000 years ago. Named Homo sapiens sapiens to distinguish them from archaic versions, the debate over their place of origin is unresolved. In The History and Geography of Human Genes, a massive 1,000-page compendium of research on genetic differences, authors Luca Cavalli-Sforza, Paolo Menozzi and Alberto Piazza lean towards the replacement theory, but do not think the question is settled. This is their scenario for how the first modern humans may have developed from archaic forms:
“Ancestors of modern Caucasoids and modern East Asians (let us call them Eurasians) developed either in northeastern Africa, or in West Asia or southeastern Europe from an originally African source during the period between 100 and 50 kya [thousand years ago]…
“Whether or not it partially hybridized with local descendants of archaic H. sapiens or H. erectus, the Eurasian moiety was ready for an expansion, perhaps about 50-40 kya, and expanded in all directions: north and then east, occupying northeastern Asia, the Arctic, and America; west toward West Asia and Europe; and southeast, where it may have mixed with the descendants of the southern branch of the African migration.”
The African Eve
In the late 1980s, a furor arose over a dramatic new theory that modern humans derived from a single African female — quickly dubbed “Eve” by the media. Michael Brown traced the course of this flap in his 1990 book The Search for Eve. The idea appeared in a 1987 article in Nature by Allan Wilson, Mark Stoneking and Rebecca Cann called “Mitochondrial DNA and human evolution.” Its opening was provocative: “Mitochondrial DNAs from 147 people, drawn from five geographic populations, have been analyzed by restriction mapping. All these mitochondrial DNAs stem from one woman who is postulated to have lived about 200,000 years ago…”
The research, conducted primarily at the University of California, Berkeley, was based on the fact that once two groups diverge, random mutations begin to accumulate at a (usually) constant rate. The longer the groups are separate, the greater the number of mutations and the more different from each other they become. If the mutation rate is known, the mutations form a molecular clock from which the date of divergence can be computed.
For example, if Asians and Europeans share a genetic characteristic not present in Africans, it means that the mutation that formed the genetic feature occurred after the common ancestor of Asians-and-Europeans split off from the African stream but before Asians and Europeans diverged from each other. However, even within a single breeding group, mutations do not occur uniformly and at the same time in all members of the group, so sophisticated statistical analysis is required to determine when divergence took place. Mitochondrial DNA — which controls certain aspects of energy production at the cellular level — seems an ideal vehicle for such studies because it is simpler than nuclear DNA and, more important, is inherited only from the mother.
According to the Berkeley study, the African samples of mitochondrial DNA (actually African-American samples) appeared to be the oldest. If so, modern humans must have originated in Africa and dispersed from there, replacing all archaic humans without a single instance of interbreeding. The impact of this article — Nature is one of the most prestigious science publications in the world — was immediate. Eve, the “mother of us all,” was African and therefore black. This ignited sanctimonious celebration by liberals. If other races had only recently split off from Africans, how could racial discrimination be justified? Blacks were quick to accept their new role as progenitors of mankind.
However, all was not well in Eden. Questions about Eve surfaced as scientists examined the evidence carefully. Doubt was raised about the validity of using American blacks — who average roughly 25 percent white genes due to miscegenation — to represent Africans. The persistence in modern Chinese of distinctly East Asian Homo erectus characteristics — round skulls and shovel-shaped incisors — demanded explanation. Milford Wolpoff asked how Homo sapiens sapiens eliminated earlier forms without a single instance of interbreeding. He coined the term “Pleistocene Holocaust” for the implied planet-wide massacre of archaic humans by the African invaders.
Scientists questioned the mutation rate used by Professors Wilson, Stoneking and Cann to calibrate their molecular clock. Given a more realistic clock rate, the common ancestor — if there was one — lived half a million years or more ago, an era populated solely by Homo erectus. The putative common ancestor might simply represent movement of Homo erectus or one of his precursors out of Africa. In 1992, flaws were found in the statistical techniques used by the Berkeley group.
The decline of Eve’s fortune did not rule out the replacement theory, and expert opinion is still sharply divided. It is difficult to know what to believe when specialists disagree. However, Carleton Coon’s comment about New Guinean aborigines still sloughing off Homo erectus traits is compelling, and Australian aborigines have heavy brow ridges and massive skulls that suggest a markedly different ancestry from that of other races.
Ultimately, of course, it makes no difference whether the races of man diverged 30,000 or 300,000 years ago. The fact remains that the differences are real, and clearly reflect differing capacities to build and maintain civilization. Today, the work of millennia is being undone as the less intelligent races not only outbreed the more intelligent but push their way into the homelands of the northern races.
In his masterwork, Race, John Baker traces the history of men who spoke about race. Perhaps the most important was Arthur Comte de Gobineau, whose book, Essay on the Inequality of Human Races, explained why civilizations decay and die: “mixture, mixture everywhere, always mixture …” Hybridization of intelligent, creative, racially pure founding stock, he said, was destroying the West, just as it destroyed all previous civilizations — a theme developed by Tenney Frank in History of Rome and Elmer Pendell in Why Civilizations Self-Destruct.
In a more recent book, The Decline of Intelligence in America, Seymour Itzkoff writes of the “encompassing embrace” of third-world immigration to Europe and the United States: “It is an embrace that will suck us back into evolutionary history if we delay too long.” What Lothrop Stoddard called “the rising tide of color” may well be reversing the course of human evolution. AR
Michael W. Masters is the author of “The Morality of Survival,” which appeared in the issues of July and August, 1995. This article will conclude in the next issue.
• • • BACK TO TOP • • •
BOOK REVIEW
The Decline of the Best
An analysis of our era’s most dangerous illusion: that genes have no effect on human behavior.
The Decline of Intelligence in America, by Seymour Itzkoff, Praeger, 1994, 242 pp., $18.95 (soft cover)
reviewed by Thomas Jackson
Seymour Itzkoff can always be counted on to grapple with difficult but vital questions. He is the author of a four-part series on the evolution of human intelligence and never loses sight of the role that heredity plays in human behavior. In his latest book, The Decline of Intelligence in America, Prof. Itzkoff writes about one of the most destructive but little-discussed trends in America today: the decline of the nation’s genetic stock.
The book’s thesis is simple and essentially irrefutable: the unintelligent are rapidly outbreeding the intelligent. At the same time, third world immigration is bringing in large numbers of non-whites, who have lower average IQs than whites. The consequence is a steady decline in the average American IQ, which threatens the survival of our nation and even the civilization of which it is part.
The NLSY
The problem of birth rates is illustrated in the National Longitudinal Study of Youth (NLSY), the comprehensive set of data on which Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein based The Bell Curve. As Prof. Itzkoff notes, the NLSY has tracked the progress of a representative sample of Americans who graduated from high school in 1972. When they are divided into five different levels of intelligence, the birth rate differentials sound a grim warning. Four years after graduation, 30 percent of the lowest ability whites and 49 percent of the lowest ability blacks had already had children. Of those of highest intelligence, only six percent of the blacks and ten percent of the whites had had children. Intelligent Americans are not simply delaying having an equal number of children; almost without exception, people who start having children at an early age produce by far the largest number over their lifetimes.
Professor Itzkoff emphasizes that the differential for blacks is especially sharp. Even more than among whites, births are concentrated among the unintelligent and incompetent. Since the entire black distribution of intelligence is already shifted some 15 points lower than that for whites, the preponderance of births to the least capable black mothers is producing a large number of children who, by white standards, are retarded. The average IQ gap between black and white will therefore widen.
Much of this new generation will never be capable of anything more demanding than manual labor. As Professor Itzkoff points out, our society has virtually no need for such people. Furthermore, many are unwilling or unable to work at even the modest occupations of which they are capable. Crime, indolence, and yet more reckless proliferation are the inevitable results.
Vlad, one other thing. As you probably guessed I’m a believer in the nation state and I’m a nationalist. But the way I would define who is a countryman and fellow citizen is different than the way you would define it.
An anecdote that maybe will explain my views: when I was a boy I belonged to a Cub Pack/Scout Troop. In my home town different churches sponsored cub packs and scout troops. Mine was Anglican because all my friends were Anglican. On Remembrance day (every Nov 11) my home town would put on a big parade. All the town cub packs, scout troops, air cadets, sea cadets, militia regiments, service organizations would take part. It ended at a municipal park where the war memorial was located. My home town was not very big and that monument had dozens of names engraved on it. And that’s not counting the wounded. So Remembrance Day was a really big deal.
At the park we sang hymns and priests and ministers would conduct a service. I was young and impressionable. There were flags, pipers, marching bands, a really impressive show for a small place. A piper played a lament, the bugler played Last Post. I saw the adults around me, some of which were weeping into handkerchiefs and it occurred to me, geez, they beat the Nazis. And I liked those people, some of which were neighbours and friends. I remember thinking that I want to be like them. That Remembrance Day ceremony made a deep impression and cemented my idea of who I am.
It did not escape my notice that my parents and grandparents were on the opposite side in WW2. Nonetheless, there I was and there my parents and sister were in the park. It was not long after the War and already bygones were bygones. We were Canucks like the rest as far as anyone was concerned. That did not fail to impress me.
We will differ on this but in my version of nationhood I don’t care where you come from or what race you are. As far as I’m concerned nationality is a matter of the heart and of personal loyalty. You work and live and die with us, you carry our passport, you live our way of life, you live by our rules, you salute our flag. (our flag and our flag only, none of this divided loyalties bullshit). You say you’re one of us. And that’s it.
TBU, VK and those drawn into the whole race issue: numerous people have politely and not-so-politely requested that you can it.. at least here.
Why do you continue to carry on about race when few here care? Why are you so disrespectful of the majority of people who come here who’ve requested y ou put it aside? What do you possibly hope to achieve with all this cerebral stultiloquence? You might make a point that someone might be challenged by, but you won’t be changing any minds.
If what you want is intellectual stimulation and debate, exchange e-mail addresses, set yourselves up on Yahoo Messenger or Skype, and have your debates: offline. Demonstrate a little of the superiority that you lay claim to and exercise some of that high IQ you possess to realize when you’re not wanted.
I’m going on vacation now. Have fun.
Completely wrong, Dumbo. The Greeks were into a priori knowledge, first principles, while empirical science is its antithesis, deductive.
A capacity for recognising the former is the mark of a superior worldly intelligence. The greatest scientific thinkers, mostly Judaeo-Christians (sorry, it’s a matter of history), acknowledged this precedence. Newton expressly.
Blackjack Kennedy was selling all his stocks as the Great Depression was beginning, because he thought there must be something wrong with the market, when the man who polished his shoes was telling him whats stocks to buy. Ever thought of shoe-shine work, yourself?
And here’s another little something for treebeard’s uncle:
“It is impossible to see a negro and not feel kindly towards him; such cheerful, open, honest expressions and such fine muscular bodies. I never saw any of the diminutive Portuguese, with their murderous countenances, without almost wishing for Brazil to follow the example of Haiti; and, considering the enormous healthy-looking black population, it will be wonderful if, at some future day, it does not take place.”
Letter to J S Henslow
And referring to his admiration for the intelligence of the Africans:
“My wife has just finished reading aloud your ‘Life with a Black Regiment,’ and you must allow me to thank you heartily for the very great pleasure which it has in many ways given us. I always thought well of the negroes, from the little which I have seen of them; and I have been delighted to have my vague impressions confirmed, and their character and mental powers so ably discussed. When you were here I did not know of the noble position which you had filled. I had formerly read about the black regiments, but failed to connect your name with your admirable undertaking. Although we enjoyed greatly your visit to Down, my wife and myself have over and over again regretted that we did not know about the black regiment, as we should have greatly liked to have heard a little about the South from your own lips.
Letter to Thomas Higginson (27 February 1873)
Asoka, I think many of your posts are flat out false and misleading and when I spot such a post I will make it my business to point out the truth. Do NOT hold your breath while waiting for me to “go away.”
I don’t know whether Simmons’s dire remarks about what is transpiring in the Gulf are correct or if he is just an off-the-wall nutjob but as far as him shorting BP stock and saying he thinks the price will go to zero, well, that’s his business and it’s neither illegal nor unethical.
You seem to long for the simple life so why don’t you shut off your computer, build your mud hut in Costa Rica, New Mexico or South America (whichever is the preferred destination this week) grow some food and make non-plastic toys. Go … meditate, dance, be spiritual (although you don’t believe in spirits), speak Spanish, eat one square a day. Please, do all these things and stop posting falsehoods and then making remarks about my inability to comprehend what those posts mean. I comprehend only too well.
You said:
Many people have wished and hoped for this in some form or another and rightfully so.
The sociopaths who invariably rise to Aristocratic power and even their occasionally non-sociopathic descendants who still rule similarly always seem to be historically adamant that NO ONE gets to sit it out.
That is the dream of the authoritarian leader, usually a borderline personality or sociopath: to control everyone and everything.
Why? Because as wolves among sheep, they CAN. Because it is in the nature of the authoritarian sociopath.
The reality is it is not possible for your 30 to sit it out when TSHTF. It’s just not your decision.
So many decent, innocent human beings have thought what you said as The Shadow of the Sociopath and their henchmen fell across their door.
So very few actually got to “sit it out”. Ever. In 8000 years and more. Even if you have nothing, the Aristocratic sociopaths want YOU in their army or their subject populace. Why? Because they CAN and because if you are left alone, it would cause a bad example and others might try to “opt out”.
But take heart. TSHTF and TLE may be as much as a century away. We probably won’t live to see it and JHK will be terribly disappointed if that is the case.
So you and your 30, unless they are very young, will probably be safe.
There’s no guarantess for anyone in this life. As always, the sociopaths and their gullibly weak-minded followers will drag the rest of us down. People who are decent otherwise will perform atrocties on their behalf as they always have done. They will “follow orders”. Always have, always will. With the statistically rarest of exceptions. (Google “the Milgrim Experiment” for further confirmation of this near-universal human truth)
And if they are ordered to drag you and your 30 out of their hiding spots, they will do so without hesitation or question. This has been true in all nations, races, creeds and time periods with only the briefest exceptions.
I can’t remember who said this, but:
“To get a good man to do good is nothing. To get a good man to do evil requires God.” (or some sociopathic henchmen pretending to know exactly what God wants, which almost always is for people to follow the orders of the Aristocracy and not make a fuss because after everyone dies, justice for all is SURE to reign – snicker)
But for now and probably the next 20 years, thee’s little to worry about on that score. The center WILL hold, for a little while longer.
Simmons seems increasingly likely to be wrong. The latest data (or perhaps Simmons sees them as lies) show skimming operations are down to collecting 50-odd barrels a day, from 25,000. Consequently, the “sealing” of the new cap has markedly reduced the oil from the well flowing into the gulf (perhaps stopped it altogether). If there was a gusher 5 to 10 miles away, those skimmers would still be collecting 25,000 barrels a day.
I just hope that Simmons starts to modify his language and begin to accept that he is not privy to information that others aren’t or that his knowledge of wells is not surpassed by anyone else.
Maybe there is some scenario in which he’s more right than wrong but that doesn’t seem likely at the moment, and he risks being seen as a complete loony.
nasurprisingly, you misread me completely, but it adds to the fun. I enjoy ridiculing the folly of your type; and by ‘your type’, I mean those who take great pride in their own worldly intelligence, which might be of a fairly high order, were it not bereft of any sane underpinning by rational assumptions.
You see, our assumptions are a key component of our life’s work, and because they are built upon myriad disparate threads of knowledge and experience, are invariably arrived at by very subtle and abstruse processes.
You see, according to your limited intelligence (due to your unambiguously imbecilic assumptions), Mengele and Eichmann must have been very intelligent individuals, like your good self. I would beg to differ, for the reasons I have adumbrated.
I’d love to say, “I look forward to seeing your response”, but alas, I know you are foolish enough to try to wriggle out of the corner you’ve painted youself into, and would only incur yet greater humiliation. So, I’ll just leave you with these thoughts for you to ponder, and hope that appearances are deceptive, and you are open to at least a smidgeon of enlightenment.
When Einstein was asked what criterion he had recourse to in selecting his hypotheses, he replied that it was aesthetic. How much more imperative, then, that we should keep at least some slight purchase on a sense of moral beauty in the conduct of our lives, as we seek to garner the truth that will, by the grace of God, increasingly inform our assumptions.
It is an axiom of the Judaeo-Christian faith that God’s thoughts are as high above ours, as the heavens are above the earth.
Christ commanded we should not call anyone a fool, yet, although he always led from the front, to put it mildly, there was one occasion when he did refer to someone as a fool, namely, the farmer who built another barn, in which to keep the surplus from his bumper harvest. Yet in our accursed, Western, faux civilisation, that was no more than the most elementary common sense.
Ultimately, Christ’s words were always motivated by one thing: love. The man’s soul was required of him that night, so Christ was warning the worldly-wise that they were in the greatest danger of falling into the insane folly of pursuing worldly goals, to the eternaal detriment of their soul.
By the way, when Eichman was being held captive by his Mossad abductors sitting on a bed in a house in a city suburb, prior to being spirited off to Israel, he’d almost put his hand up like a toddler to ask permission, for example, to go to the toilet. Truly a man among men.
Incidentally, it is by our hearts that we choose our assumptions, so…. things are not looking good for you, are they? It why voluntarism is clearly the basis of Judaeo-Christian, scriptural teaching.
We will not be judged on our worldy intelligence, but on the basis of what we CHOOSE to believe. It just happens that God made the world in such a way that it accords the wishful-thinking of believers who find his teachings beautiful.
The most sublime? By common concurrence, the Beatitudes. Not a Republican-type agenda at all. Blessed are the poor????!!!!
“Asoka, I think many of your posts are flat out false and misleading and when I spot such a post I will make it my business to point out the truth.”
What you think, Qshtik, is of no importance at all.
That you think you can distinguish truth from falsehood on the anonymous internet is proof you are no more than an OCD-ridden, pushin-70, fool.
The great classical composer Anton Dvorak stated:
“I am convinced that the future music of this country must be founded on what are called Negro melodies. These can be the foundation of a serious and original school of composition, to be developed in the United States. These beautiful and varied themes are the product of the soil. They are the folk songs of America and your composers must turn to them.”
As well as the following:
“I found that the music of the Negroes and of the Indians was practically identical”, and that “the music of the two races bore a remarkable similarity to the music of Scotland”.
And finally:
“In the negro melodies of America I discover all that is needed for a great and noble school of music.”
Linked below is a beautiful,haunting performance of the 2nd movement of Dvorak’s New World Symphony performed by the Dublin Philharmonic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ENf4VEhI40
It’s a real shame that someone got a hold of your brain and reverse engineered it, that is to say turned it inside out and made it difficult to see reality for what it really is. That is the only explanation, for no one on this planet, under sort of normal circumstances, would believe the shit you are piling on nice and tall.
Kevin Trudeau Is Cool July 22, 2010
The most obvious explanation for the diaspora of currently non-African races from Africa to other parts of the globe in prehistoric times, seems to me, to be that they were driven out by the stronger peoples, the ancestors of today’s Africans.
Today, in Africa, itself, the smaller people, the Bushmen live in the poorest, harshest environment, yet, like the Australian Aborigines, they are blessed with an extraordinary, innate mystical intelligence, precisely as a result of their perforce, ascetical life-style.
What is more, anthropologists are in no doubt whatsoever that, like all the peoples we, somewhat oddly, call “indigenous peoples”, they have adapted to their most difficult environment with positive genius.
The further North the expelled peoples spread, the harsher the weather conditions and the greater the demands placed upon the capacity of all humans for wordly intelligence, in order to survive.
This, however, presents problems in that our civilisation began in Mesopotamia, and the climate of China is not, generally, I believe, harsh, yet did they not, for instance invent printing and gun-powder, many centuries before us?
Essentially, ‘civilised’ means living in settled dwellings. I’m half Welsh, but apparently, in the Middle Ages, the Welsh used to move their dwelling each year – nomads, yet they have provided Britain with what I believe to be the two greatest politicians in its history, Lloyd George and Aneuren Bevan (who instituted the National Health Service in the teeth of fierce opposition by among others, the doctors).
One other thing. I feel fairly sure that treebeardsuncle conflates racial and cultural homogeneity. I believe that multiculturalism is a great error and leads to division and, yes, a racism based on culture, which seems to be insuperable this side of the Parousia.
The only way round it is for nations to preserve their unique CULTURAL identity via an overarching official, national religion. Of course, this does not mean that individuals could or should be coerced into believing it, but the fact is that it creates and imbues everyone with a subtle, imperceptible ethos, whereby certain kinds of behaviour are unthinkable to everyone.
We have a problem in the UK, at the moment, which you Americans will find hard to believe. The authorities are contemplating issuing emergency-services personnel with vest armour, as protection against the attacks of disaffected and sometimes drugged-up louts. Also, you will see notices in hospitals to the effect that the medical staff have a right to go about their business without being physically assaulted by patients or their families. (Is that politicl correctness gone mad, or what? [joke])
Those kinds of behaviour would have been unthinkable when Christianity was the one, official religion of the country, and was the theme of the daily morning assemblies. I mean, it’s true madness.
Yaaaaaaawn….
Oh, you bellowed?
Hey, hope you get some mail; wouldn’t that be hand-clappingly exciting?!? Oooh, oooh! Goody-goody!
This person has WAY too much time on their hands, obviously, just by looking at the kind of tripe they are generating on this page throughout the day. Go do something useful with yourself; your masturbated verbiage does not impress anyone.
Greetings Mr. Cool,
It would be helpful to know whom you are disagreeing with. Mr. Kunstler? Some of the usual suspects?
Kind regards,
San Jose Mom
SJ Mom,
I think it is fairly obvious that Kevin is referring to Asoka.
. too much time on his hands
. the kind of tripe he is generating
. masturbated verbiage (which I take to mean Copy & Paste)
Who else fits this description to a T but Asoka?
Ok. So tell me more how I misread you. What exactly did you mean by worldly intelligence and what do you take to be rational assumptions?
nasurprisingly, you misread me completely, but it adds to the fun. I enjoy ridiculing the folly of your type; and by ‘your type’, I mean those who take great pride in their own worldly intelligence, which might be of a fairly high order, were it not bereft of any sane underpinning by rational assumptions.
I like the fancy language here, the erudite eloqution: myriad, disparate, subtle, abstruse.
You see, our assumptions are a key component of our life’s work, and because they are built upon myriad disparate threads of knowledge and experience, are invariably arrived at by very subtle and abstruse processes.
Tell me more about Mengele and Eichmann. As I am part Jewish, I cannot accept the third reich or its descendents as leadership. Actually, I do not know the meaning of adumbrate. Please give a brief definition.
You see, according to your limited intelligence (due to your unambiguously imbecilic assumptions), Mengele and Eichmann must have been very intelligent individuals, like your good self. I would beg to differ, for the reasons I have adumbrated.
Ok, Treebeard
You finally did it.
I’ve been following this blog for months now and posting for about a month.
Until tonight, I had read every post from every individual.
But you, Mr. TBU, this afternoon posted a entry so long, so obviously copied and pasted from somewhere that I began to skim it. Then I began to scan it. Then I bailed out completely and hit the scroll button until finally your post *mercifully* reached its end. Whew…sweet freedom!
And even if your ideas were completely true, I can not see how they help ANYBODY improve ANYTHING.
IQ is relative to situation. If I need a new weapons system, California engineers would be what I need.
If I wanted to screw up a company and an ocean ecosystem, I would find BP company men and send them out to throw their big IQ’s around at a delicate juncture of a long dangerous operation.
If I wanted to survive in the African bush for a night I would find a wise looking Bushman, try to get on his “wavelength” and head out with him while hoping to survive and learn something.
One last thing….racial arguments are visibly fun to you. They are not fun where I live.
My South dealt with race from the founding of the country. She lost 500,000 of her sons in a War.
When you talk about making a Southern state into a “black colony,” it may be a fun mental exercise to you….it’s too abstract for you to comprehend reality.
In Georgia that kind of racial shit is a dangerous as walking into a survivalists gun room with a flaming torch.
Think about that next time before you theorize.
And kindly spew your venom without mentioning the South.
No need to respond. You have some good ideas and speak with eloquence. Sadly, though, your intractable inability to consider practical solutions for the planet puts you on a short list of posters I must choose to ignore.
Ok. Let’s see what you consider to be enlightenment. However, spare the tiresome Christian claptrap.
You said
“So, I’ll just leave you with these thoughts for you to ponder, and hope that appearances are deceptive, and you are open to at least a smidgeon of enlightenment.”
So you consider it wasteful to build a second barn to store the excess harvest?
What significance do you place on Eichmann asking for permission in that manner? Do you see that as being submissive, civilized, or what?
Actually, I did not mean to post so much.
Here is the link:
http://www.amren.com/ar/1996/02/index.html
I just wanted to focus on the idea that the less-intelligent are out-breeding the more intelligent. That is particularly true among the darkies.
But seriously, what is wrong with making one of the southern states into a black colony. Southern Ca, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas are becoming de facto Mexican colonies. I think the US should be broken up. The latinos will have the southwest. The blacks can have a southern state or two. The whites can have the Pacific northwest through the Great Lakes region. Am not sure about the eastern seaboard. Maybe the blacks can have south carolina. I do think though if the have SC, Georgia will have to go along with it as well and maybe Alabama and Missippi.
Geoff
Geo
A little humor to offset the previous diatribe.
Shecky says he’s got, “30 people” he actually cares about.
I’ve got 7. So Shecky, you’ve got a much bigger nuclear family than me or you haven’t thought it all the way through.
I just got back from a 46 person 4 day reunion at the Gulf coast. 4 brothers and sisters in their 80’s brought the rest of us together.
And I’m sitting on the beach the first night, sipping on a beer and reveling in the family spirit.
And I’m thinking, “This is what reunions are all about. This is an extended family a man would want to have around for TLE.”
And by the third day I’m thinking, “There’s not enough beer in all North Florida to make me want to spend another day with all these people.”
And that change in my thinking occurred while the power stayed on and there was plenty of food to eat.
Does make we worry about my state of mind if TLE occurs.
And want to fight real hard to prevent TLE.
So at least I won’t have to be around those folks except at reunions.
spare the tiresome Christian claptrap
================
Hear Hear … and ALL OTHER religious claptrap, if I might add. The audacity of people who would tell us not only that God exists but precisely what’s on His mind to boot is simply incredible.
And, Tree, the questions you asked about:
1) a second barn
2) Eichmann asking for permission in that manner
3) submissive, civilized, or what?
are precisely the questions that ran through my mind when I read Flying Fuckit’s reply.
Now consider the differences in reproductive strategies needed to survive and prosper in warm as opposed to cold climates. I fervently aggree with these conclusions: Here is the link:
http://www.amren.com/ar/1996/03/index.html
Edward Miller has proposed a concept called paternal investment theory. He suggests that “in cold climates males were selected for provisioning, rather than for mating success. In warm climates, where female gathering made male provisioning unessential, selection was for mating success. Male-hunted meat was essential [in cold climates] for female winter survival. Genes that encouraged mating success were selected for in warm climates. Negroes (blacks) evolved in warm climates, while Caucasians (whites) and Mongoloids (Asians) evolved in colder climates. Mating is assisted by a strong sex drive, aggression, dominance, sociability, extroversion, impulsiveness, sensation seeking, and high testosterone. Provisioning is assisted by anxiety, altruism, empathy, behavioral restraint, gratification delay, and a long life span.”
Hell Yeah! I have a feeling this song is the ringtone of both Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs and P-Diddy. Unite biatches!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXDoxxlgNG0
Nothing doing mate – you said what you said. Put up or shut up. Stand by it and argue – or concede. You said that I was wrong because the genotype hadn’t changed between WW2 and the 60’s but the culture had. Now where have I ever said that culture and upbringing weren’t important? That genetics were the all in all? It’s like climate and weather: climate (genetics) is what you can expect but weather (actual cultural expression) is what you get. You’re destroying a straw man here Cash. You’re playing a dirty trick whether you know it or not. Don’t project your fanaticism onto me – you’re the fanatic. You’re the one who denies any role to genetics in human life.
It’s false on the micro level as well. Imagine that you and I were exchanged in the hospital just after birth and that I grew up with your family and you with mine. Would I then have become exactly who you are now? To say it is to show its absurdity, but it is exactly your claim on the macrocosmic level – that genetics don’t matter. A person is a combination of their unique genotype and their unique environment. Likewise, the culture of a Nation is the coming together of its unique collective genotype and it’s unique culture. To change the genotype is to change the equation thus getting different results. As Canada becomes Arab and Negro, its culture will change since those peoples like different things even apart from their ostensible culture. You could raise a Black as a Puritan – no music allowed. Such a person would be a third rate miserable creature without the music and rhythm that the Black Man craves. But if a bunch of Black Puritans were put together by themselves, they would very soon throw off the no music stricture. In no time at all, they would be swaying and moaning like Blacks do at all their Churches. They have even adapted the Catholic Mass for this.
Forgive me if you’re not the one who said he had a Chinese wife. I mean no disrespect in any case. I just think it would be a fascinating experiment to see what the Chinese think of this kind of PC Ideology that insists that we’re all just blank slates waiting to be programmed. I think they probably had their fill of it under Mao and the gang.
Alright, here is one of those progenitor liberals whose influence has been corrupting the fabric of our society for the past 2 to 3 generations. Notice that Myrdal, a Swede by the way, espouses that despicable social engineering that we see all too much of in the petty bureacratic authoritarian school systems as well as the media.
Here is the link:
http://www.amren.com/ar/1996/04/index.html
Sowing the Seeds of Destruction: Gunnar Myrdal’s Assault on America
Some of today’s most destructive ideas were first popularized by a socialist from Sweden.
by Jared Taylor
Social Engineering
Today, one of the most striking aspects of An American Dilemma is its touching faith in social science. Myrdal writes with much satisfaction about his “scientific” methods and solutions. Rather more ominous is his infatuation with “social engineering.” The following passage is one of the clearest statements imaginable of the goals and tactics of liberalism:
“Many things that for a long period have been predominantly a matter of individual adjustment will become more and more determined by political decision and public regulation… [T]he social engineering of the coming epoch will be nothing but the drawing of practical conclusions from the teaching of social science that ‘human nature’ is changeable and that human deficiencies and unhappiness are, in large degree, preventable.”
San Jose Mom,
I thought it was obvious enough, but my post was mostly in agreement with ozone’s – the one before mine – regarding the post directly before his, the one spilling over with tripe and riddled with crazy half-truths. Any time spent actually engaging in debate with the person is likely time wasted, so I did not manage to critique any points directly.
– K.T.I.C.
Greetings Mr. Cool,
It would be helpful to know whom you are disagreeing with. Mr. Kunstler? Some of the usual suspects?
Kind regards,
San Jose Mom
About Racism…
A scientist worked for years trying to determine if the color of skin could mean a difference among animals.
He trained two cockroaches to respond to verbal commands, one black and one white (albino).
Eventually he succeeded in getting both to leap over his finger whenever he told them to jump.
Once They had learned this, he pulled off the black’s front legs.
When he then commanded the black cockroach to jump again, it took a deep breath and just managed to clear the man’s finger.
He then pulled off the middle legs and on the command to jump it just managed to stagger over.
Finally he pulled off the back legs.
But when told to jump, the cockroach just lay there, legless.
He did the same with the white one.
He pulled off the white’s front legs.
When he then commanded it to jump again, it took a deep breath and just managed to clear the man’s finger.
He then pulled off the middle legs and on the command to jump it just managed to stagger over.
Finally he pulled off the back legs.
But when told to jump, the cockroach just lay there, legless.
Conclusion: There is no difference at all between the two races: when all a cockroach’s legs are removed, deafness occurs.
I am sure what’s-his-face will draw a connection between deafness and race, no doubt, and then putting forward a likely question: but if a white cockroach can buy a set of wings, why can’t the brown cockroach also save up a little each day and buy a set of wings, that way he can still without legs please the white man and jump over his little index finger on call.
progress, i’m stunned that posters here take TREEBEARD seriously enough to try to engage and reason with him. The man is clearly a piece of work, here’s how I see him:
1. He probably has Asperger’s syndrome, outwordly intelligent but lacking essential comprehension of the human condition, how people relate, etc.
2. He learned a few fancy words and thinks it constitutes his intelligence
3. He has no friends in the real world, this is why he has to come here to engage with people on topics unrelated to the intent of this forum. Actually, his range of topics is mostly his pre-occupation with race.
4. His pathetic attempts to find common ground with posters here suggests to me that he’s desperate for connection with humans, but clueless how to go about it. Once he asked Vlad to be his kin, several times he expounded on his educational credentials in order for other posters to identify with him.
5. He shows signs of of being a sociopath (referring to brown-skinned people as scum).
HOW IN THE WORLD CAN ANYONE TAKE HIM SERIOUSLY?
Treebeard, you’re PATHETIC!!!!! But have a nice day anyway 🙂
Q, I meant “outwardly”.
Some master race. A low testosterone, anxiety ridden, puritanical, rhythm lacking group of chilly sexual constituents. And the “other ones” are the problem? Handing the self -proclaimed racists a couple of mirrors.
Vlad, You are entirely correct that on an individual level genetics is important. You’re not me and I’m not you. You have your strengths and weaknesses and I have mine. You are correct, if we were switched at birth you would not have become me and vice versa. I can see where my strongest personality traits come from. No doubt in my mind that much of this is genetically determined.
But I don’t think that this applies across races. Why do I think so? Personal observation. Like I said in a previous post I’ve worked over the decades with a wide variety of people from different races and ethnic origins I’ve seen the brilliant and the cack brained in all. Similarly with personality characterisics. My observations tell me that you can’t generalize according to race.
Look at it another way. Look at the pyramids in Egypt and look at Stonehenge (my understanding is that both were erected at roughly the same time). Look at the sophistication of Egyptian civilization at the time versus that of northern Europe. If you were alive at the time (say you were a merchant bringing goods back and forth between the two places)and had seen both Stonehenge and the Pyramids and seen the temple complexes and cities in Egypt versus those in northern Europe what would you conclude? Who looked to be the superior race?
My point is that things change over time. Rome civilized Western Europe, Constantinople civilized Eastern Europe, this when other parts of the world had already been civilized for thousands of years. In the last 500 years or so it’s been the other way around, European civilization has been dominant. They chalked up spectacular scientific and technical achievements. But then European civilization committed collective suicide over the last century in two gigantic wars, an act of monumental barbarism and stupidity.
Last century Germans were all puffed about their alleged racial superiority. A racist might say this: what have they accomplished? A racist might say that their forefathers wreaked havoc on European civilization 1500 years ago (from which it took a thousand years to recover) and that they had another go last century (and maybe this time they managed to put it in its grave once and for all).
But I’m not attributing execrable German behaviour to race. Wretchedly bad behaviour is not unique to Germans or whites or any other race. What happened 1500 years ago is as much attributable to Huns and other groups pushing German tribes west. The Germans were fighting for their lives and it was push into Roman territory or die. And what happened last century is not unusual in European history. That crap has been going on for 3000 years. The exception is what they did to the Jews. But even then anti semitism isn’t unique to Germans.
TBU, VK and those drawn into the whole race issue: numerous people have politely and not-so-politely requested that you can it.. at least here. – Enviro
OK I hear you. But here’s where I think this race issue is important and needs to be aired out. It doesn’t take a genius to see that our economies and societies will crack up because of oil and other resource depletion. The question in my mind is how will they crack up and how will they reconfigure themselves. There are multiple possible fault lines: regional, cultural, historic, religious, ethnic and last but not least racial.
We’ve not had a happy history when it comes to racial differences, real and perceived. Slavery brutalized blacks for centuries and the holocaust exterminated European Jewry. Not fun stuff and I don’t need to elaborate. The thing is we don’t learn. Like Twain said history doesn’t repeat but it sure does rhyme.
So what happens when oil and other resources run short? Do nations all go on a killing spree to grab as much as possible for their own people? We have a recent event to point the way: WW2
Does North America crack up into regional nation states? How will that go? Who gets to be a member of what country and on what basis? Will race be one of them? We have another fairly recent event to point the way there too: the Civil War.
IMO right now the US is embroiled in a loud re-do of the Civil War. They’re re-fighting it over the airwaves and the internet: the intellectual, hip, sophisticates of the northeast and west coast who hate their own country vs the obese, toothless, semi-literate, trailer park dwelling, church going patriots of the southern and western red states. At least that’s how the battle lines have been characterized. So where are blacks and hispanics going to fit in all this.
I think the US and Canada are on a decades long dissolution the way that Rome slowly fell apart. And, I think that, like Rome, one day they’re there and, like a soap bubble that goes pop, one day they’re not. Question is what takes their place.
So maybe this racial thing isn’t to your taste. Not mine either. I find it alarming. But we better air it out because this issue has a sorry and sad history.
Right on!
American workers believe they are “free” when they pay more than twice the percentage on average in total tax as medieval serfs paid their lords. USA has not had a “free market” in at least 100 years, markets are controlled by the investment bamkers directly and by their minions in government.
We are supposed to believe an investment banker (who has many axes to grind) understands the interplay between undersea geology, oil/methane formations and nuclear fission explosions? He just might be fronting for someone who does understand, but I’d like to see the data please!
Rundown of a few timely economic policy stories.
The Monetarist meme: If you say something with great assurance and conviction do the facts actually match the claim?
The mid-term elections are coming up and the American people are getting an earful by Republican grandstanders who represent the will of the transnationals. Facts don’t seem to matter, just attitude and cultural inference. They may sound good on the surface during this recession which is about to go into a double dip with no job growth in sight. But their record ain’t so good, either.
Their policy of tax cuts to the corporations creates phony profits on paper without performance. It’s like giving an obese child more candy. Instead of investing in jobs they are off to the speculative markets with our money.
The great panacea of job inducing tax breaks by “W”‘ created a paltry 3.7 jobs in comparison to the 17.6 million jobs of the Clinton years. Yet the Republicans claim that job creation comes with tax cuts to the wealthy. There they go again with the old trickle down theory which can’t possibly work in a Global paradigm.
Yet the American people don’t seem to understand this and I never hear the “Tea Partiers” demand that jobs be brought back to the US. They don’t seem to understand who to target. It’s just about that “socialist, racist” black dude in the white house. We shall see what people really think in November.
in the late 1990’s American companies have stopped investing in American jobs and have taken their investments in human capital overseas. You know where. Cheap labor markets with no barrier to entry. Our biggest export is our jobs. And next to zero interest rates, simply make the banks richer.
(Interestingly, Germany is opening a BMW plant in the US. Perhaps because they have a different philosophy.)
We are fighting 2 wars already, making private contractors very rich, indeed –on tax-payer money. Clearly it is not enriching the middle class or creating new jobs.
Our tax revenue is so low in different municipalities that yesterday we were told that in Newark, state workers will have to bring their own toilet paper!!——-Now that’s absurd.
———
In the Huffington Post, reformed Neoliberal, Jeffrey Sachs is calling for more investment in the American worker and explains why the fiscal stimulus isn’t working. He offers a 5-part plan to stimulate job growth and claims that fiscal cut-backs will decrease demand.
Jeffrey Sachs: Sow the Seeds of Long-Term Growth
_______
Last week Max Keiser intervied Former Reagan assist secretary of Treasure, Paul Craig Roberts 7/16/10 who’s most recent book is “How the Economy was Lost”. Roberts was also an editor at Wall Street Journal at one time, but is now on the fringe.
http://maxkeiser.com/watch/on-the-edge/episode-63-16-july-2010-guest-dr-paul-craig-roberts/
in the 3rd segment Keiser and Roberts discuss “protectionism” as a dirty word and the defense of American jobs is considered something similar to socialism, a result of clever propaganda by economists for the transnational interests. All arguments are ended by calling people “protectionists”. (another of the “Magic” words which is supposed to stop debate in its tracks.)
He points out that David Ricardo who developed the idea of free markets made a comparison between competitive advantage and absolute advantage.
The first describes an economy where the nation state creates an atmosphere for the market to export globally with protections for its workers and products in a competitive manner. The second describes off-shoring of all value, leaving the nation-state insolvent. Of course the owners of those companies make a huge differential in the process.
Guess which one we’re in?
————————-
Dana Priest of the Washington Times this week wrote “Top Secret America”, enlightening us that the security industry is operating in an environment, much like the “Black Box” of derivatives that led to this recession. There is a tremendous waste of tax-payer money through redundancy and opacity due to “National Security”.
Cable news stated when reviewing the situation that nobody actually knows who is working on what because it all top secret. Isn’t that convenient.
So that’s our new industry and thanks to the inability for Bush to administrate government properly, its just a sprawling mess.
Quote: “It is also a system in which contractors are playing an ever more important role. The Post estimates that out of 854,000 people with top-secret clearances, 265,000 are contractors. There is no better example of the government’s dependency on them than at the CIA, the one place in government that exists to do things overseas that no other U.S. agency is allowed to do.”
Chertoff introduced his body scanners for airline travelers a few months ago. Yesterday this was introduced on cable news: The mysterious ‘flying pasties’ A new company claims its pasties — body stickers typically worn by strippers to cover nipples and genitals — help travelers preserve some modesty in the era of full-body scanners——That’s entrepreneurship at its best.
One more issue in the news that brings us back to the derivatives Black Box. We are about to see the Brooksley Born story retold.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gsearch.html?q=Brooksley+Born&x=0&y=0
Elizabeth Warren is the most logical choice to head up a consumer protection watchdog position Consumer Protection Bureau head, which is opposed by Geithner. Sounds like the Greenspan, Summers, Rubin all over again when they destroyed Born to get her out of the way.
Excellent posts. Even when discussing with the Aspergers of this board, like VK and TBU, your posts are fully of clarity and a unique Canadian slant on things. (you socialist commie Comrade anarchist healthcare havin’ commie socialst, you!)
I’d have stopped reading the blog comments long ago if not for posts like yours interspersed between the usual egoistic bullshit and sometimes utter nonsense that maybe a third of the posts around here are. (I dangled a participle! and I did it ON PURPOSE!)
You said…
“the intellectual, hip, sophisticates of the northeast and west coast who hate their own country vs the obese, toothless, semi-literate, trailer park dwelling, church going patriots of the southern and western red states”
Both gross oversimplifications and insulting to both sides, but not by you, by the joke of an infantilized binary National Dialogue down here in the Empire’s Corporate Media. Not to mention the fact that there are actually several sides at work here.
Where are blacks and hispanics going to fit in all this?
That’s easy, considering it has pretty much gone the same way every single time for the last 8000 years.
They will fit with the Outgroup, which will include, gays, intellectuals, free-thinkers, liberals, athesists and agnostics, “witches” both real and imagined… hmmm, am I missing anybody?
…and anyone who gets outta line or tries be an interfering do-gooder.
For the first time in a long while, Jews may windup in the Ingroup this time, instead of on the crosses, stakes, and gas chambers with the rest of The Outs. Progress, eh? (“cue Jeffersons TV Theme”)
I would be very interested to hear more about how you perceive your idea of “doomers” vs. “sliders”.
D R LUNSFORD said:
BTW, if you want to worry about a real methane catastrophe that the ignoranti will not report because they are too abysmally stupid to understand basic science, here it is: Global warming models do not account for the methane that inevitably will be released from the melting permafrost, as what was frozen for eons begins to rot. Methane is 20 times as effective at trapping infrared radiation as carbon dioxide. It breaks down rapidly into water and CO2 but not rapidly enough to prevent an enormous spike in world temperatures, particularly near the pole. This is nearly certain to happen. I tried to get people interested in this in the 1980s but environmentalists hooted at the poor science nerd’s pretensions.
Comment
I suspect this may have happened some allready at the periphery during solar max, along with unexpected methane increases in mines, increased/unexpected pressures at many oil wells, and increased outgassing from undersea volcanoes. Together perhaps these have succeeded in keeping global temperature basically flat when the solar output/sunspot cycles predicted it would turn down sharply?? Do you suppose this huge methane release in the gulf is enough to turn the trend back up??
Are we really information saturated? With some things, yes. Tom Cruise and Lindsay Lohan, boy, are they covered.
But the last hunter gatherers being hunted down and killed?
Here is a link to Arundhati Roy talking about the peoples of jungle India being murdered so that the mineral corporations can mine on their land-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTS9gHCZoI
She talks about the tribal people under attack in that area of the world, including the tribes of Afghanistan.
It’s happening in Australia, also, where it turns out that the aborigines, sent to live on reservations, live on top of coveted minerals. So they are being accused of child abuse, and families are being broken up.
And, of course, Indonesia, which has been under attack since the 60s, when US-backed Suharto murdered somewhere around 500,000 “communists”. This is one of the worst mass murders in history, but it’s not mentioned in corporate media at all.
Indonesia has many resources, especially oil and timber, so its aboriginal peoples are being attacked to this day.
If a peasant falls in the forest and the media doesn’t cover it, does it make a sound?
Glad you like them. Sometimes though, especially in this stinking heat (it’s like tropical east Africa and I swear I saw saurians in the lake) I’m prone to howling fits of bitchiness. Those posts aren’t exactly models of reason.
re this outgroup stuff especially in the southwest. If hispanics make up a critical mass of the population maybe they’ll be the in group in that area.
Per that ancient curse, we live in interesting times.
Environfrigginmental: The thing I worry about is getting the little dental floss thingies with the fishing line points to get under two little areas of bridge work that I have. Looking at studies of Egyptian mummies, there was a horrendous percentage of those people who died of problems with their teeth. The thing that sticks in my head from Brin’s “The Postman” is how careful the hero was about taking care of his teeth, as so many of his companions had died of tooth infections after TSHTF. The things I do for my health, I don’t expect to live forever. And, I hope when the holding actions come to an end, I have the grace to pass quietly with a little dignity. A die off will come. Rage not against the darkness. It’s a waste of energy.
I’m older, but luckily, in pretty good shape (except for the teeth). I don’t take anything except supplements (as long as I can afford and obtain them). A while back, when I had insurance and a doctor, they wanted to put me on high blood pressure medicine. I told the Doc I’d rather see what I could do on my own as the cost of ongoing medication might mean the difference between cat food or tuna, down the road. So, more exercise, lots of garlic and a bit of chocolate every day, brought it down.
As far as Vlad and Tree go, I skip their posts. And, anyone responding to same. Form a united front on this issue, and they’ll go trolling off to some other unmoderated forum.
Qshtik is also on the list of people I skip. Years ago, “Sean” took it upon himself to point out I apparently didn’t know the difference between “their” and “there.” I didn’t proof read closely enough and the spell check doesn’t catch the difference. What occurred to me much later is that three minutes later, pale, pimply faced little Sean, still living in his mom’s basement had entirely forgotten me while he was still living in my head. Interesting that I can still remember his name after all this time. So, don’t allow creatures like Qshtik to live in your head. Skip the posts.
It is best not to respond to trolls. Sometimes, it can work in you’re favor. I once asked a question over on an E-Bay board and got some little snot who shot from the hip. I ignored him. He came back with a little nugget of information that I found quit useful. But, I didn’t thank him for it or acknowledge him at all.
IGNORE THE TROLLS AND THEY WILL SHUFFLE OFF TO SOME OTHER UNMODERATED BOARD! (Yup. Shouting :D)
Cash,
I think you are completely correct that the racial dimension of TLE is important and needs to be aired out.
My only problem is the quibbling, nattering way that Vlad, TBU, and their quibbling partners do it over and over from the beginning EVERY SINGLE WEEK!
Maybe if JHK’s webmaster would go to a format with a FAQ section and photo icons we could fix this. We could forge common agreement on definitions of PO, TLE, doomers, and sliders.
Vlad could have a photo icon of him “walking the talk” in Idaho on the compound…surrounded by his large brood of Aryan offspring.
TBU could have a picture at a blackboard covered with DNA drawings and Punnett Square genetics exercises. He would have a thought bubble over his head, “IF ONLY THEY UNDERSTOOD GENETICS I, GEOFF COULD RULE THE WORLD!! WAAHHHHOOOOOAAAAA!!!
We could have a picture of me in a group of adoring female acolytes with a thought bubble over my head, “JUST 1 BILLION MORE WOMEN IN THE PICTURE AND WE CAN FIX THE WORLD!! HO HO HO
I think you get the idea…
On a lighter and more personal note I see that you feel you have a problem as a conservative surrounded by liberals.
I signed onto this website thinking I had the diametrically opposite problem in Georgia.
But I quickly discovered I was not a liberal or a progressive at all by the standards of this website…definitely more of a PRAGMATIST.
Anyway, for purposes of my argumentative enjoyment, Cash, would you round up some liberal Canadians and send them south? I’ll send a few crackers, rednecks, or po’ white trash up your way for the summer.
Just warn your guys that it’s HOT down here. Al Gore may be winning the argument on anecdotal evidence right now.
Regards,
C
That’s pretty funny, progressive. I just went through that at my Dad’s birthday party.
You just explained throughly why we can’t pick a state and make it for blacks, and tree ignores you, and calls for it again.
I have answered the racists with impeccable logic (imo), and they continue.
What does it matter who gets higher scores on the IQ tests?
The point is that all people deserve a decent standard of living, and unless all have one, society will not be as livable as it could be.
It’s been pretty much proven that higher unemployment rates lead to higher crime rates, as well as increased suicides, child abuse, animal abuse, and other cruel practices.
The wealthy don’t care. They live in their privileged neighborhoods.
The rest of us live outside the Green Zone.
http://wagelaborer.blogspot.com/2009/09/living-outside-green-zone.html
However, they have to pass through our world at times. Do they really want to worry about being mugged? Is it really any way to live to have to have bodyguards wherever you go?
What about their kids? You can’t keep them totally in the bubble.
Either we divide up the work necessary among all of us and give each a decent standard of living, or devolve into a hateful, violent society. (Which is the road we’re on).
The other night, I worked with a bunch of right-wingers. They were talking about how the world is so much more dangerous than it was, what with all the child molesters and such.
I disagreed. I think you have to resist the fear that the media puts into your head, and allow your kids freedom.
This one guy told me that when he was in the Navy, every port had prostitutes who were children stolen from their parents.
I said that that’s what happens when you have a severely class divided society, with no ability for people to make a living.
We’ll see.
Hancock,
I will try to elaborate on doomers and sliders when I can. I am using the terms as mental short hand. And I can identify with both groups…which means I can poke fun at both groups.
I am enjoying your writings and find myself in frequent agreement with you. As colleagues, though, we must be free to challenge one another on areas of disagreement.
So when you said,
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“The reality is that things will probably go on as they have been going on for 30 years, since the human species went into overshoot. Relatively slowly, unevenly, and with the Aristocratic Elite displaying a seemingly enormous power to keep the Fantasy going and delay the oncoming of the TLE to it’s very physical limits, buying more time as they position themselves to not be a part of the coming dieoff keyhole, or at least to be comfortable and serviced by we Peasants while it’s happening
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It occurred to me that sounded just a little bit like a conspiracy theory. And I began to wonder to myself, who are the, “Aristocratic Elite.”
The answer knocked me out of one of my comfort zones.
The “Aristocratic Elite,” is us. You, Hancock, and me…….virtually anyone in the civilized world with access to some of the following:
1. electricity
2. hot and cold running water
3. vermin free living quarters
4. a computer and the internet…even at the library downtown
5. easy low-cost mechanical transportation
We have more creature comforts and more freedom than the richest noblemen and kings living prior to the modern age could have even dreamed.
Understand that I do not write to be offensive to you. I am more interested in clarifying my own thinking.
And I’d really like to help myself, and my kids or grand kids avoid being part of the “peasants” you mention….whose lot in life is to service the “aristocratic elite” post collapse.
I don’t even want to empty my OWN chamber pot or shovel my OWN outhouse!!
Regards,
C
The very comfortable infrastructure that we enjoy does not make us part of the “aristocratic elite”.
It makes us better off than most of the other people on this planet, but the elite live WAY beyond that in comfort and wealth.
Don’t confuse comfortable living with the vast power that the vast wealth of the elite possess.
The top 1,011 wealthiest people on this planet own more than twice as much wealth as the bottom 3,000,000,000.
Obviously, just having running water doesn’t put you in that class.
I think that the racists on this blog are responding to the worsening disparities of wealth by trying to justify their chosen group to have more trickling down upon them than the out-of-favor groups.
I am not a “make the pie higher” believer.
I am a “make the pie smaller, so as to be sustainable, and share it among all, while simultaneously lowering the population by paying people to choose sterilization”.
Can we put that on a bumper sticker?
I don’t know about that, Wage.
Sure there are some families with STUPIDLY HUGE amounts of wealth. But I don’t think many (any) of them are using that wealth to try to engineer a PO collapse which they will then survive in style while Peasants take care of them.
I mean…tucked away in a forgotten corner of a mutual fund in an old 401K that I try not to think about too much…as it goes doooowwwwnnn!
I own some BP. Not a lot; but BP managers on that Transocean rig were trying to maximize “my” profits when they screwed up royally.
I could sell the BP. I could raise hell with the board. Neither action would do much good. I don’t own enough BP to attract attention.
However, Wage, did you notice recently that the Rockefeller family…certainly members of the future PO “aristocratic elite” if such a demonic thing ever comes to exist..
That the Rockefeller family, in aggregate, majority stockholders of ExxonMobil are pressuring the company to do more about renewable energy….for the sustainable good of the planet…and maybe their own portfolios….but Rockefeller actions are in the right place, whether their hearts are there or not!
“make the pie smaller, so as to be sustainable, and share it among all, while simultaneously lowering the population by paying people to choose sterilization”
I just noticed that last part after I posted. That will fit on a LARGE bumper sticker with no problem. You may need a SUV to be big enough to hold it for you, though…or one of 8m’s buses.
Seriously, your paid sterilization program makes a lot of sense. I’ll be with you if you can find a way to sell it to the masses. Because I honestly do think the voting masses still have control over an “aristocratic elite,” so far….
as you said… We’ll see.
‘Indonesia has many resources, especially oil and timber, so its aboriginal peoples are being attacked to this day.’
do you know the connection fron that to arriana huffingtons family/ huffington $ ?
if you have info please post!
arraina huffington and her hubby or x are sickening!
he even ran for public office circa 1990 and spent 40? million trying to buy his way in.
meg whitman spent 80$ a vote.
bumpers? of cars? WTF?
Your efforts outlined in your 4th, 5th and 6th paragraphs are commendable.
==================
E-Frig, I am curious to know what you mean when you say to Asoka that his efforts are “commendable.” Do you mean this in the sense of “hey, yeah, if that works for you .. great .. that’s commendable.” Or, do you mean commendable as in a way of life you might recommend to someone, maybe even to a son. Note: “recommend” is a primary definition of the word “commend.”
I imagined the following scenario: You are 58 years old and you have a 28 year old son – a college grad you helped put through school. It’s Thanksgiving Day and you and your wife are throwing a huge feast at your house attended by immediate and extended family and close friends. The only person of consequence in your life who is NOT there is your son Enviro Jr.
Amidst the general hubub of conversation and football emanating from the TV it suddenly occurs to Aunt Millie that Enviro Jr. is not there. She inquires about him. You explain with pride that your son has moved to South America and lives in an adobe structure that he built himself. You begin to explain that over the past several years Enviro had become enthused about a theory called “Peak Oil” and an overall concern for planet earth.
Aunt Millie, rather than picking up on your prideful countenance, is trying to hide a look of concern and dismay. Family and friends are beginning to abandon their own conversations, someone mutes the TV, and everyone is listening to your explanation about Enviro’s absence.
“Yes, well, as you know, Enviro majored in Business and luckily he minored in languages, specifically Spanish, so he is able to communicate quite well.”
Aunt Millie: “But what does he do down there?”
E-Frig: “Well, of course building the adobe house (I think he said it’s 10′ by 14′) took some time and then he began to grow most of his own food.”
Uncle Bob: “What happened to that cute girlfriend of his? – they were getting pretty serious weren’t they?”
E-Frig, with an audible sigh: “Yes they were, but Enviro began to talk alot about the 6.7 billion population of earth being unsustainable and all of a sudden he announced that he’d gotten a vasectomy on the anniversary of earth day, and shortly thereafter he and Lynn split up. She loved kids, ya know.”
Cousin Ralph: “So, besides growing vegetables what does he do all day? Does he keep in touch?”
E-Frig: “Before he gave away his laptop we used to email back and forth and he told us his time was mainly devoted to fasting, spiritual life (we’re not sure what he meant by that since he was a card-carrying atheist), sharing culture (he wanted to know all about those funny hats they wear but all they wanted to talk about was Britney Spears), storytelling, group meditation and making non-battery operated games from wood and vines.”
Aunt Millie: “He must have at least some need for money … does he have a job?”
E-Frig: “Oh yes, he’s a part time assistant night manager at a McDonalds-Ecuador franchise and the money goes to supplement the food he doesn’t grow himself.”
Envirofrigginmental, is this the sort of thing you had in mind when you said “commendable?”
Sometimes this website is a scary place.
So, don’t allow creatures like Qshtik to live in your head.
===================
This reminds me of — “For the next 15 seconds I bet you can’t Not think of the word hippopotamus.”
Obviously you have failed to take your own advice. Apparently, I’ve been living in your head all this time. And to top it off I’ll bet you have not misused “their” and “there” even once since I mentioned it.
BTW, you wouldn’t be AbbeysBooks under a new name would you? Nah, probably not … no advice to “study Foucault.”
HI, GREEN GOBLIN GUT JUICE! How friggand are you? I have missed you like a bowl of slimy maggots! I love noses full of snot, dead things when they rot, and you!
Let’s consider your latest ad hominem litany.
1. Maybe I do, maybe I don’t. Maybe I just don’t care about how people relate.
He probably has Asperger’s syndrome, outwordly intelligent but lacking essential comprehension of the human condition, how people relate, etc.
2. Well, tests and anecdotal evidence verified substantiated conclusions. Have done well with math at times as well.
3. Well I have a son and a daughter on the way and go out and meet ladies from time to time. I have acquaintances more than friends. True, am fairly isolated but a lot of folks are. There have been printed studies that demonstrate that Americans have fewer friends and spend less time with others than they did generations ago.
4. Possibly, you are correct. However, you tend to focus on such instances. I listed the credentials to demonstrate that I had some officially recognized possibly relevant background.
5. Perhaps I am a sociopath. I am impulsive and quick-tempered, but have never been arrested. However, don’t think being autistic and being a sociopath go together.
6. That “have a nice day” line is very 80’s. Were you cool back then?
progress, i’m stunned that posters here take TREEBEARD seriously enough to try to engage and reason with him. The man is clearly a piece of work, here’s how I see him:
1. He probably has Asperger’s syndrome, outwordly intelligent but lacking essential comprehension of the human condition, how people relate, etc.
2. He learned a few fancy words and thinks it constitutes his intelligence
3. He has no friends in the real world, this is why he has to come here to engage with people on topics unrelated to the intent of this forum. Actually, his range of topics is mostly his pre-occupation with race.
4. His pathetic attempts to find common ground with posters here suggests to me that he’s desperate for connection with humans, but clueless how to go about it. Once he asked Vlad to be his kin, several times he expounded on his educational credentials in order for other posters to identify with him.
5. He shows signs of of being a sociopath (referring to brown-skinned people as scum).
HOW IN THE WORLD CAN ANYONE TAKE HIM SERIOUSLY?
Treebeard, you’re PATHETIC!!!!! But have a nice day anyway 🙂
Enter theme from Twilight Zone….
You got a point. Of my 30, I can stand to see maybe 5 of them on a daily basis. I have a small bio family- 2 brothers, each with a wife and 2 kids, and my parents, divorced but still living. I have not seen my uncle or his family since 1964. I have friends with whom I am much closer than most of my family. Some of them have kids whom I like. 30 may be high but what the hell. I wish no ill to the remainder of the world, I just don’t have enough energy or time to worry about them. I try to do what I think is right, mostly to satisfy my internal monitor.
Take a stroll thru Kunstler’s Eyesore of the Month and it becomes very apparent there are far more important issues at play than silly racial squabbling. The connection between vacuous architecture and decadent American culture is more than a coincidence in my mind.
http://www.kunstler.com/eyesore_200806.html
What a sterile, horrible playground. No opportunity to be creative with nature. Mud was my kid’s favorite “toy.”
imo not imho? Oh Wage! At least you didn’t capitalize. You should never capitalize – it’s not feminine. Impeccable logic – like Asoka’s?
Keep em coming Tree – I’m really enjoying your selection. Alot of them I’ve read before, but not all. And in any case, a review is in order because of the importance of the material.
I heard that Cavalli Sforza has evaded most popular criticism. He and his confrees simply use the phrase population group instead of the word race. This in itself is a commentary on the Pavlovian nature of the masses. Hear the word race and they begin to froth at the mouth like rabid dogs.
I don’t know if it will prove to be technically true, but I think about Blacks as a new variety of Archaic Homo Sapiens. There may have been some physical improvement in terms of sprinting ability and perhaps an increase in agression. These things can be helpfull – some of the races of Homo Erectus look as if they were incredible runners with long legs and narrow hips. And in terms of pure biology, Homo Erectus was an astounding success. He was man for a million years – far longer than our reign may turn out to be.
And Neanderthal was without a doubt, the strongest man to ever live. PC anthropologists try to minimize differences – not just between races but even between the men of evolutionary eras! One said that Neanderthal was stocky, but no more so than the guy stacking crates out back. A less PC Anthopologist corrected her and said that if you saw Neanderhtal without his shirt you would have been amazed at both his physique and his strangely shaped head. Homo Erectus had a physique more similar to our’s – he just didn’t have much of a forehead. No GQ models here either.
Yes Comrade Christian, what is your point? Nazi prisoners were tortured at Nuremberg – many had their testicles destroyed by kicks. Many of the interrogators were Zionists, so I’m sure you approve. They did something similar to Christ, have you heard?
“No opportunity to be creative with nature. Mud was my kid’s favorite “toy.”
San Jose Mom 51, mud was a favorite of mine as a kid and who hasn’t heard of building sand castles?
This is what I was referring to in a previous post when I said I look forward to the breakdown of the world wide web, having no internet, and returning to playing games made from natural materials.
As kids we would play for hours using completely natural materials found in nature. Petroleum-based products, like plastic, are not needed for humans to enjoy themselves. For example, many sports throughout history, like baseball in the 1800s, were being played using natural materials. No petroleum necessary.
But back to mud… I have found that it is also enjoyable to play with mud as an adult (though Qshtik ridicules it as a “mud pie” house). It is satisfying to make bricks out of no more than soil, sand, and water, and at the end of the day, with sore muscles, to be able to see the fruits of your labor.
Your logic is flawed: if something is fundamental to an individual member of a logical class, it is important to the whole class. If genetics is important at the indivdual level, it MUST be important to the whole – the whole being nothing but all the individuals added up. Thus how can genetics not apply to whole populations?
As I have said before, you rely to much on your personal observations. Your sample is not representative, but rather extremely skewed towards the elite end of the minority population. This is exactly the trouble with anecdotal information. It’s why the science of statistics is needed in real psychology.
And in any case, you have to admit that your dream is dying. SOMETHING went way wrong. Toronto used to be a peaceful White city. Not it’s a gang infested multi-cult cesspool. Which do you prefer? Cash, you can’t make these people acculturate. And the more different they are genetically, the less likely they will agree to it and the less likely they will succeed at it. You think I’m in denial? I’ve met Blacks who were as smart or smarter than I and were far more dynamic people that I’ll ever be. That being said, it must also be said they nearly all of them were a million miles away from us in terms of their hearts. They planned to use their skills to tear us down as to have their vengeance upon us. You can’t make people forgive. So even in the remote chance you were right about the equality of IQ, it just doesn’t matter. They don’t intend to live and let live. And if we want to live, we had better stop assuming that their minds and hearts are with us – when it’s quite clear that they aren’t.
Apparently blood is the ultimate agent of brick adherance. The Indians of the Southwest used it. Failing that, use straw a la the Bible. In the movie “The Ten Commandments”, the men working the straw into the mud are called mud turtles.
Visnu is the patron god of Golf. “Credit for the invention of the gutta-percha ball probably belongs to the Reverend Robert A Paterson of St Andrews, Scotland – with a bit of help from the Hindu God Vishnu. In 1848, Reverend Paterson recieved a package from India. Inside was a statue of Vishnu packed in gutta-percha – essentially a milk sap that hardens when molded. Seeking a substitute for the feather-stuffed leather balls then in use, he tried molding the gutta-percha into a golf ball. But when he tried it out, this ball went flying every which way, until it developed some nicks in it. Then it flew faily straight. These nicks ultimately became the modern day dimples, which create air pressure under the ball and keep it afloat. Even a modern day ball without dimples will drop quickly after 60-80 yards. (Bob Loeffelbein, “Offbeat Golf”)
A golf game also has 18 holes as the Bhagavad Gita has 18 chapters. Coincidence? Is there such a thing? If I pulled a few super strings, I could get you made into an Aryan – in your next life. Parabdha karma is crystalized and cannot be changed. You’ll have to accept the honorary status for the time being. Aryan means noble. But no more bull.
If you’re into golf, I recommend the book, “Golf in the Kingdom,” by Michael Murphy.
It’s autobiographical and starts out with Murphy finishing up at Stanford, with a stop in Scotland/GB to golf at St. Andrews and some mystical golf course he won’t name. Very cool stories. Murphy then heads off to Pondicherry, India to spend time in Sri Aurobindo’s ashram.
Murphy and his partner founded Esalen in Big Sur. Many consider it to be the birthplace of the human potential movement. (Murphy’s family gave him the land and it’s gorgeous.)
I attended a seminar at Esalen with Murphy as the teacher. Awesome.
Asoka,
An email finally arived from New Mexico this afternoon. It read as follows:
Hi Q, the bill died in the Senate so nothing has happened. However, Brian and I will be running a slate of local banking reform including bills similar to this in our next session in January.
Tim Keller
Please forward gentleman’s bet check for direct deposit to my B of A account @ Qshtik.Central.NJ
I told you their session was over.
The check is in the mail.
San Jose Mom 51 said: “I was re-reading a favorite book of mine, Ken Wilber’s “Sex, Ecology, Spirituality — the Spirit of Evolution.”
You are my kind of woman!
I love that book and actually selected it for a book discussion group and donated copies to libraries.
I highly recommend Ken Wilber’s “Sex, Ecology, Spirituality — the Spirit of Evolution” as a title to read, as I believe understanding its message will help understand and put into perspective TLE.
Are you dissing me?
Are you saying I’m not cool?
Cause I totally am!
I loved playing with mud as a child, so I decided that my children should have the same pleasure.
I’ll never forget mixing up some dirt and water and announcing to my children that they could play with it.
They looked at me as if I were crazy! Play with mud? Absolutely not!!
But I liked adobe also, until I got tired of trying to do it all myself.
So I have a half-finished adobe building, looking pretty pitiful.
WAGE,
I replied with some links to sites about TLE adobe construction, with zero petroleum energy inputs, but my comment was held for review.
I replied … but my comment was held for review.
==============
How can you tell if a comment is being “held for review?”
It just occurred to me what the underlying reason is for much of the financial woes in the country. It’s connected to JHK’s mantra about Americans being addicted to the notion of “unearned riches”. The investment business in America, best I can tell, has progressively become a gambling casino over the last several decades. In recent years it reached its pinnacle (or nadir, depending on how you view it). Much like a gambling casino, a few lucky souls strike it rich, but the masses lose their shirts. And the characters running the casino all sit pretty. Why so the masses keep coming back for more fleecing? Because they buy into the notion that some way, some how they will be able to greatly amplify their funds by playing the game. I remember years ago, back when things were saner and expectations were rational, a person could put his money into a savings bank at small interest. The logic was that the depositors money would be put to work by investing it, at the bankers’ discretion, in worthwhile projects. It was the bankers’ responsibility to select investments where the risk was low and the reward more sure. Thus the return on such investments was correspondingly modest. Modest, but sure. And the inflation rate was such that increments in value, small as they might be, were durable. Of course the problem with this scenario was it was no way to “get rich.” It made great sense for the average working person who would want to sock away value for retirement, but that’s all. All that security has now been blown away. Save money for retirement? Sure, and have it eradicated by inflation. Put it in the stock market and has it lose value overnight for now apparent reason and be dissipated by trading charges and management fees. Put it into binds and have them defaulted on. The whole financial scene has been turned into a gaming casino. Where the insiders know which slot machines are rigged, and which dealers are crooked. So the very few are enriched and the masses are separated from their money by visions of becoming rich.
I was listening to the news last night and heard a small segment about gambling. A recent poll indicates that 2/3 of the populace sees nothing wrong with gambling. A full 25% have gambled at a casino within the last year. 66 have purchased lottery tickets. What does that say about our collective mentality? It’s just entertainment, you say? We are the most over-entertained people in the world. Movies, TV, video games, theme parks. Why is that insufficient?
Maybe my rant about gambling lacks vision. Maybe our addiction to the notion of unearned riches being possible is part of a larger malady. Our refusal to be earnest and genuine. We want to live in a never-never land. That per se is not so bad, putting aside moral judgments. But look what we give up in the process! The reverie at fist glance looks benign. But in reality it is a Moloch that will consume all we really ought to value and are lives will be made miserable. And they have been.
Wage, you need to have access to an organization like Habitat Taos, where groups of volunteers build adobe houses.
Doing adobe alone is a long process, not recommended.
Are you referring to cob or adobe construction? Cob is more like playing with mud. Adobe is playing with mud to form sun-dried bricks.
Cob is also a long process, but more amenable to working alone.
Both are highly sustainable forms of building that do not require petroleum energy inputs, if done manually.
Here is a link to a blog describing a year long cob house project:
http://small-scale.net/yearofmud/
Here is a link to adobe Habitat:
http://www.taoshabitat.org/adobe.php
The best place for adobe construction is New Mexico because it has an official Earthen Building Code.
http://www.nmcpr.state.nm.us/nmac/parts/title14/14.007.0004.htm
Or move to a rural area outside control of building codes, like some parts of Texas.
And get some friends together to help! Adobe is very forgiving. You just need shovels, torpedo levels, and speed leads. And lots of effort.
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An additional point to the “unearned riches” theme. It applies also to corporations. How else can one explain drug companies peddling drugs that don’t work or are downright harmful (and when their own research shows this)? How else can one explain the accounting firm for Enron giving it a clean bill of health in its auditing?
I guess there is a corollary to gambling: once you accept gambling as reasonable behavior, you implicitly accept cheating into the bargain.
And if he is right and people die on the coast this cuts out gasoline and oil for the rest of the country as most of America’s refining capacity sits in this region…..
I can only imagine the effects of a Methane gas release like so much Alka-seltzer bubbling up from the deep. Just add a lit cigarette or a pilot light and watch the resulting fireball suck all the oxygen out of the surrounding air.
What doesn’t fry would suffocate… an apocalyptic vision of hell that James Camron, Michael Crichton, and the History Channel couldn’t even conger up together.
And if enough of the “right” people die (ie; republicans) then the center will not hold and we will be at the mercy of peak oil and the military coming home to roost a lot sooner then we thought….. what a path!
The news cycle has LOST IT’S MIND and now there seems to be a witchhunt for “reverse racists???” in government (wouldn’t the term be racist… what the hell is a “reverse racist”?)
and now it seems the lights are growing dim on the forgotten Gulf…
Kind of a new twist on “Captain Trips”.
“Maybe our addiction to the notion of unearned riches being possible is part of a larger malady.”
Ignoring “Thou shalt not covet” and/or a lack of simple appreciation of math.
Donny-Don, I don’t think that is correct.
While it is true that total effective spare capacity (excluding Iraq, Venezuela and Nigeria) increased from May to June 2010 by 17,000 b/d to a level of 5.59 million b/d (Source: International Energy Agency), all oil production indicators decreased. By the way, oil consumption also decreased.
Conventional crude production decreased.
Total liquid fuels production decreased.
World oil production capacity decreased (measured as the sum of world liquids production excluding biofuels plus total OPEC spare capacity excluding Iraq, Venezuela and Nigeria).
OPEC production decreased.
It looks like peak oil is still game on … and has been since 2005.
Where did EIA say world oil production has increased?
Do you have any other independent verification of your claim of a modest production increase, other than EIA reports?
Still, if you are correct, and if there was a production increase (however modest), that would reset the peak oil game clock, and I would have to revise upward my 47 year estimate for TLE.
“As far as Vlad and Tree go, I skip their posts. And, anyone responding to same. ”
I do not single out anyone to skip posts.
It would be close-minded to ignore people with differing perspectives, perspectives I do not share. I want to be informed of differing perspectives. I want a multitude of perspectives … multitudes I can contain.
What I do is skim the posts of Vlad and Tree (Tree’s consist of re-posted 1995 articles from AmRen). I slow down and read if something relevant is being said.
No one is 100% wrong 100% of the time. We all are capable of contributing useful information.
HOW TO SKIM A TEXT FOR CONTENT
http://www.ehow.com/how_2092682_skim-text-content.html
I remember years ago, back when things were saner and expectations were rational
=================
Al, you are afflicted with “the good old days” disease. Gambling has been around since long before the Roman soldiers tossed dice for Jesus’s robe. The sure and steady modest interest earned on a savings account back in the day meant that you were fleeced by inflation, but more slowly. And market flim-flams and speculation started before tulip mania. Railing against the all-to-human idea of getting rich quick is a huge waste of energy. Accept that it will always be so and learn to work around it for the benefit of yourself and your family. Save yourself and leave “saving the world” to the likes of Asoka, Wage and other like-minded souls.
All that aside – so as not to annoy you and others – I’ve decided I’m NOT going to mention the following four particular phrases in your comment and suggest, as I so often do, that you proofread before submitting:
. has it lose value
. for now apparent reason
. put it into binds
. and are lives will ;0)
Al,
I must admit that I’ve never understood gambling. It caters to math-impaired brains.
Back in the day, I used to have to go to the Comdex trade show in Las Vegas–a horrid destination.
Last February we stopped for a night in Las Vegas because we were headed out to Salt Lake City and the route across the Sierra Nevada Mountains, Interstate 80, was covered in snow. We ended up seeing Cirque de Soleil’s tribute to the Beatles, “LOVE.” It was a fabulous show. Vegas has this new multi-billion-dollar city center that opened in December. For a mall, the interior was a breath of fresh air. That being said, 99% of the architecture in Vegas is hideous. When you look at the new City Center, you’ll see two buildings that are leaning as much as Pisa–in opposite directions. Living so close to the San Andreas Fault, I found this very disturbing. I would call the buildings, “Waiting for the Destruction of Vegas.”
I don’t think a little gambling is terribly destructive. Such gambling might more properly be called “wagering”. Bingo, penny-ante poker and the like. And maybe even the odd casino. The problem, as I see it, is that now gambling is found everywhere – and I don’t just mean in the forms which are obvious. The so-called “markets” are gambling. What is the derivatives market? Gambling. We are surrounded by bets, side-bets and side-side- bets. Genuine work is for fools, it would seem.
San Jose Mom 51 said: “I attended a seminar at Esalen with Murphy as the teacher. Awesome.”
San Jose Mom, since you like Wilber and Murphy and have been to Esalen, you might enjoy reading Kripal’s book, Esalen: America and the religion of no religion. Chicago, University of Chicago Press. (2007).
Qshtik, maybe you should read it too, since you seem to have problems understanding how an atheist can have a spiritual life. Even the book’s subtitle must drive you crazy.
Hi. How goes it? You are largely correct. Am in favor of certain groups — of generally tropical peoples — having less in the way of resources (and more sterilization) and certain other groups that I favor (like good-looking Irish girls) having more resources (and definitely not sterilization). Am glad Asoka got sterilized. Maybe he can convince others like him to do the same.
Geoff
Author Profile Page wagelaborer | July 23, 2010 3:34 PM | Reply
I think that the racists on this blog are responding to the worsening disparities of wealth by trying to justify their chosen group to have more trickling down upon them than the out-of-favor groups.
I am not a “make the pie higher” believer.
I am a “make the pie smaller, so as to be sustainable, and share it among all, while simultaneously lowering the population by paying people to choose sterilization”.
Asoka,
Sounds like a good book.
Hi P,
Liberal Canucks going south? I have to warn you that conservatives here are well to the left of Hillary Clinton. I’ve had exposure to red neckism. We’ve got family in the US, proud Nascar southerners. They became good ole boys faster than you can say “Dixie” and they’re all rock ribbed Republicans. Listening to them rail is a gas. You think I’m bad? Say the word “Obama” and they get bug-eyed.
Hmmm…do I have a problem as a conservative surrounded by liberals. I’m not sure I would call myself a conservative. But anyway, I think that some liberal accomplishments are good and great.
On the other hand, you’ve heard the expression that the road to hell is paved with good intentions? I think that liberals are doing a lot of the paving.
I worked as a branch manager for a small S&L back in the ’80s. The inflation rate was high, and the certificates of deposit paid significantly lower than the inflation rate. This was in Boston, where the cost of living was and still is very high. My point is, even though the cds paid a lower rate of interest, they did pay SOMETHING. I remember many a widow would come in and quander over whether or not to roll over a cd when its interest rate dropped to 8% or less (from 15% or more). The customers made careful decisions, sometimes halving what they rolled over and keeping the balance liquid until they could think things through. Now it appears that there is NOTHING to think through. The average investor can’t get a halfway decent return no matter what they do. This casino mentality seemed to take control (and I do mean control)when Atlantic City went from being a former, once glorious, faded ghost town to being a tarted-up, sleazy, two-drink minimum dive it became after gambling (mid to late ’70s, as I seem to recall). My older brother took me to Vegas back in the mid l990s. He was a former casino crap dealer and showed me how to “play” the tables. At the end of a long “streak”, he knew exactly when to grab my wrist before I threw the dice the final time. (I “won” about a grand that night). Bottom line is, gambling is only for those who are on the INSIDE, not the majority of us. Hence, there is no way a typical person can even expect to survive today, the way the so-called financial system goes. By the way, I left banking just before the l987 S&L crisis hit. I guess my timing (on went to get the heck out of Dodge) is fairly good, though you’d never know it to look at the dump I live in now.
I enjoyed it. I thought of it because of your references to Murphy and golf. You can get it through interlibrary loan, if a library near you does not own the book. To help you make a decision, here are the book’s contents:
Introduction: on wild facts and altered categories —
Geographic, historical, and literary orientations
(1882-1962). Slate’s Hot Springs : homestead, family spa, literary paradise —
The empowerment of the founders (1950-1960).
The professor and the saint : the early inspirations of Michael Murphy —
Buddhism, breakdown, breakthrough : the early inspirations of Richard Price —
The outlaw era and the American counterculture (1960-1970). “Totally on fire” : the experience of founding Esalen —
Mind manifest : psychedelia at early Esalen and beyond —
Mesmer to Maslow : energy and the Freudian left —
Perls to Price : consciousness and the gestalt lineage —
Esalen goes to the city : the San Francisco center —
On ecstasy, education, and the end of sex :
George Leonard and the human potential —
The serpent spine of spirit and sex : Don Hanlon Johnson and the somatics movement —
The occult imaginal and Cold War activism (1970-1985). The cosmic womb : Stanislav and Christina Grof and the counsels of spiritual emergence —
Golf in the kingdom : Plato and Ramakrishna for Republicans —
Jacob Atabet and the tantra of physics —
Superpowers : Cold War psychics and citizen diplomats —
Sex with the angels : nonlocal mind, UFOs, and An end to ordinary history —
The Tao of Esalen : the spiritual art and intuitive business of managing emptiness —
Crisis and the religion of no religion (1985-1993). The religion of no religion : the Donovan era —
Realizing Darwin’s dream : the transformation project and The future of the body —
Before and after the storm (1993-2006). After the storm : reassessment, disaster, and renewal —
(In)conclusion. The future of the past and the mystical idea of “America.”
Right on. Until Ben Bernanke raises rates, there is nothing savers can do — unless they want to trust Wall Street goons and buy stocks.
Or, better yet, hit the craps table.
BTW, what was your brother’s advice?
Mine is trust 6 and 8 only and stay away from the inside bets (especially the one-and-out bets).
Gambling, ironically, is being presented as a panacea that can solve all our worries about a dwindling tax base. Pretty soon it won’t be just Las Vegas, American Indian reservations, Detroit and Atlantic City where gambling — now called “gaming” LOL — reigns. Every state will eventually get in on the action.
It will be just like Back to the Future II, a world ruled by Biff’s casino empire.
Let the crumbling begin!
Apparently, the cops in Canada are practicing for a future Nazi-like reality by pushing around disabled, tiny women who aren’t honorable enough to respect the cops’ lat spread by getting out of the way on the sidewalk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX1dc1zwatI
Al, honey,
If you don’t think gambling is terribly destructive, take a casino junket down to A.C. some weekend. Go out to the boardwalk and get a look (and whiff) of the poor, lost souls who think they can beat the system, if only they could get their hands on another ten spot. I don’t think there is a more depressing place left on Earth. Heaven help us. WE are becoming those poor, lost souls. I get sick just thinking about it.
Vlad, you have a point about Toronto. Gang infested? For sure. Gun violence? Lots.
But here’s where you and I differ: I don’t think the issue is genetic. It’s not that non Anglos, non whites can’t adopt Anglo or Western culture. The issue is Canadian liberalism, a corrosive ideology that IMO is a recipe for national and societal suicide. Here newcomers are encouraged to NOT adopt our ways, to NOT assimilate.
I’ve heard Liberal cabinet ministers claim that Canada has no culture. Most liberals would whole heartedly agree. So in arguments I’ve asked liberals what language are you speaking (English), what literature do you read (English), what system of govt do we live under (parliamentary), what system of law do we abide by (English common law aside from Quebec), what empire were we part of (British)…etc. and where did all this come from? Britain. Any ninny with half a brain would understand that our culture is Anglo Saxon or, more generally, Western.
But it seems that liberals think they’re being pure and holy and virtuous by scrubbing from our national consciousness this culture that took thousands of years, mountains of effort, oceans of blood to develop. Why they want to do this is not clear. If you ask you get snarls and sneers. Self hate maybe? I often said that national self abasement is part of Canada’s national character. Beats the hell out of me. You say to them that people immigrate here not the other way around. Why so? Liberals get all starry eyed and burble about multi-culturalism and tolerance. But then you say that if the home countries were any damn good people wouldn’t take the chance of coming here and starting over. No point though pointing out the obvious though.
So tolerance meaning grudging acquiescence? To what exactly? I’ve asked liberals who’ve gotten high and mighty with me for having the impudence to raise such questions. I’ve asked have you heard of purdah, how about suttee, how about clitoridectomy, how about infibulation, how about the dalits, how about selective abortion, how about female infanticide, how about honour killings? Answers I’ve gotten: no, no, no, no, no, no, no and no. My conclusion is that so many of these liberals who think they are so hip and cosmopolitan in reality have no fucking clue.
There is some hope though. In true liberal form several years ago the Ontario Liberal govt undertook an initiative to bring Sharia family law to Ontario and give it formal legal standing. There was a shitstorm of opposition not least from Muslim women. So the Liberal premier decided to put a knife in the whole idea and banned religiously based family law altogether.
Then the Ontario Conservative leader proved again that people do not bloody learn. In the middle of an election he proposed to provide public funding to Muslim schools. There was another shitstorm and the proposal cost him the election.
My point Vlad is that it’s not the genetics of non whites that’s the problem it’s the idiocy of liberals (ie mostly white people) that’s the problem. Liberals think they’re being good and virtuous and they are not. They are being foolish and destructive.
In the “real” world, those people translate into poor souls holding soon-to-be-worthless 401(k) slips.
Myrtlemay, I certainly agree that too much gambling is horribly corrosive. When I said gambling is not so bad, I meant in its simple form, such as bingo, penny-ante poker, office football pools and so on. It seems though, that nothing in this country is allowed to be kept simple. This is why we have 4-patty bacon burgers for sale. Everything gets supersized. If a little is OK, then more must be even better. As far as the lost souls down in A.C. – what can I say? How about this: we will always have a complement of people who are obsessive. They will obsess over something. Perhaps gambling, perhaps hoarding, perhaps sex, perhaps drugs, etc., etc. What concerns me is not these poor souls, who find their own method of self-destruction. What worries me is that the rest of us are being steeped in a culture of gambling, of money without working. Be it Las Vegas, A.C., all the myriad new casinos throughout the land, the lotteries or the heretofore genteel financial sector with its financial lotteries, i.e. mortgages, derivatives, and so on. As JHK has said, we are developing a culture centered on the allure of unearned riches. This is and will affect normal people (i.e. the non obsessive-compulsive ones). At the very least, normal people will get the clear notion that if they work and create real wealth, they are being jerks.
Well, casino gambling is a sucker’s game as the slots and tables are rigged at least in the sense that over time the gambler with the greatest resources (the house) is bound to win as a French mathematician demonstrated back in the 18th century. One can win through stock investing though, not only through dividends but through appreciation as well. The rational expectations school is not correct as people get information at different times and interpret it in various ways over time. Also, the economists who posit this point of view overlook the psychological nature of investing and trading. People tend to buy and sell stocks the same way that they drive their cars, reacting late and then overreacting when on both the up and downside just as they speed up towards red lights and then slam on their breaks, are late getting out when the light turns green and then overaccelerate. (Have noticed that suv drivers in particular behave that way as they are incompetent and aggressive unlike pick-up drivers who are competent and aggressive.) Incidentally I bought 10 shares of Apple for $242/share on Monday morning when Apple was doing damage control for the antenna fuss and then, after the earnings came in ahead of analysts’ expectations as I knew they would, I sold those shares 2 days later on the morning of Wednesday, July 21st, at $259, share for a gain of $17/share which was about a 7% increase.
“The wealthy don’t care. They live in their privileged neighborhoods.” -Wage
Yeah, that may be. But who are those that will own “the wilderness”. Does the olden-speak word “siege” mean anything a’tall? Nothing in, nothing out, quite simply means, death. Pretty simple, the way some things shake out, eh? Khyber Pass anyone?
Forgot one of these: ? ….you know where it belongs.
Commendable:
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French comander, from Latin commendare, from com- + mandare to entrust — more at MANDATE
Date: 14th century
transitive verb
1 : to entrust for care or preservation
2 : to recommend as worthy of confidence or notice
3 : to mention with approbation : PRAISE intransitive verb
According to Merriam Webster (online, that is) ‘recommend’ is identified as a secondary meaning. I meant it as the third. So I could have chosen a better word. Thanks for pointing that out.
Asoka’s and your rift aside, I think anyone who is actively doing something to ease the pressure of what’s coming down the pipe, deserves a pat on the back.
Yeah, while your efforts at “steering” your own monologue (for its’ own sake) is [somewhat] “notable”, the playwright in you needs a bit of work. The self-aggrandizement could use a little quietude as well. Your class-consciousness is beginning to show… “Take it easy”… ‘member that admonition?
There are several available copies at San Jose State’s library, so I have ordered a copy.
Thanks for the tip.
Do you think JHK would invite us over for tea and cakes if the TLE happened? A kind of celebration? I look forward to it.
>if there was a production increase …
>and I would have to revise upward
>my 47 year estimate for TLE.
Asoka, you got it backwards. If they (we?) are emptying the cistern at a higher rate, it will empty sooner, not later.
Since you’re so good at the web research, tell me this. As the under-the-ocean-floor oil gets pumped out, I’d think think creates a vacuum where oil once was. Is it possible that the ocean water will be sucked into the vast empty spaces where oil had once been? I’m hearing a gurgling sound, what could it be?
Treebeards Uncle, you remind me this quote about patriotism being the last refuge of the scoundrels in an indirect way — feeling of racial superiority is also the last refuge of the scoundrels. As some guy here said, perhaps the only thing about yourself you respect is your race, which you did nothing to achieve. And your genetic IQ was also a gift of the providence. So, perhaps you have nothing to feel great about that you actually accomplished with your own efforts, and this is why you’re obsessed with your racial superiority?
I agree with Cash, we do need an intelligent conversation on race, but even with your high IQ you do not converse intelligently on race, you repeat the same thing over and over again: dark-skinned people are violent and have low IQ. How boring. I don’t see any sign of intelligence or IQ in your posts, you just parrot the same notions from Am. Ren. over and over..
And a question for you — why do you think this place is an appropriate forum for you to voice your racial views? Don’t give me a banal answer that race will be an important factor during the TLE…
Apparently the deep plumes exist and are clearly a product of the BP fiasco.
“What we have learned completely changes the idea of what an oil spill is,” said chemical oceanographer David Hollander, one of three USF researchers credited with the matching samples of oil taken from the water with samples from the BP well. “It has gone from a two-dimensional disaster to a three-dimensional catastrophe.”
http://www.truth-out.org/researchers-confirm-subsea-gulf-oil-plumes-are-from-bp-well61662
Also, a fascinating piece at Club Orlov about the illusion of linearity that fatally limits the vision of engineers, economists and would-be pundits.
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2010/07/thinking-in-straight-lines.html
Now, back to our regularly scheduled program of racial obsession and grammatical triviality.
A comment made many times earlier on this blog really rang true. It was more along the lines of, “Yeah, TLE is coming. What do YOU think we should do about it?” So, in the interest of being constructive, instead of .itching, let’s talk about some survival ideas. I’ll put in my two cents since I follow this and similar blogs.
1) Get in shape. Lose some pounds. Excercise at least 4-5 times per week, if possible. Get quick(er) on your feet.
2) Eat less. The comment about the triple cheese, bacon cheeseburger speaks volumes about our supersize nation. Just put the burger down and back away slowly from the table, both hands up and off the food. Trust me, no one is gonna get hurt.
3) Stop wasting your money on silly things. No more triple sets of hand towels, dish towels, gardening gloves, golf clubs, steak knives, whatever.
4) Sell all the excess crap. I’m thinking garage sale for most stuff, E-Bay for the collectibles. This will help you travel light cause you’re probably going to need to during TLE.
5) If you are a renter, go to the head of the class. During TLE, you don’t want to be hitched to a piece of property you can’t unload or make work (as in garden).
6) Learn how to cook, if you haven’t already.
7) Especially for the young people: Unless you are incredibly smart, gifted, talented, or rich, forget college. There are exceptions, of course. College has always been expensive, especially the private ones and the Ivy League. Choose carefully where you’ll spend the next four years AND alot of your money. Don’t get saddled with an onerous amount of debt in a world of people fighting for Mcjobs. That said, I value my years in college and would do it over again. But my alma mater, Bryn Mawr, is prohibitively expensive, and was even when my folks were paying the bills back in the day. Some of my old sorority pals have grandkids there, and I almost dropped my teeth when I found out what it costs. (all but the extremely wealthy have to get numerous grants, loans, scholarships, etc.)
8) Not to sound unromantic, but if you’re single, don’t get married. My generation experienced so many painful and expensive divorces because we were told not to have sex outside marriage(okay, we did it anyway, only on-the-sly). Girls were told that “nice” girls don’t. WRONG! Living together is just fine, trust me. And if you MUST get married, elope. No more ten thousand dollar plus weddings.
9) Again, in the interest of traveling light, try not to have (more) children. TLE will not be easy on them.
10) Build connections. Support your local farmers’ market, develop a close network of friends on whom you can count and can count on you. We’re all going to need each others’ skills. No one will be able to make it alone.
11) Give some time and help to your favorite charity (mine is the Red Cross). Get in the habit of helping others. It makes you a better person, keeps you grounded, and reminds you that most people are genuinely kind out there.
12) Piggy back on number ll: Kill you television. Ninety-nine percent is pure, unadulterated b.s. I’ve seriously cut back my t.v. time and try to do anything but sit there and passively watch.
Wise words from Miz Myrtlemay.
Don’t be so paranoid – just repost it. the system has alot of glitches in it. I’d like to seet the domes that are made without bricks.
diogen said: “Asoka, you got it backwards. If they (we?) are emptying the cistern at a higher rate, it will empty sooner, not later.”
If we are talking about one cistern, and increased production from that one cistern, you are right.
If increased production means the discovery of more cisterns, in which case more years need to be added to the Long Emergency because it will take more years to empty multiple cisterns.
Bizarre, Why would they care if you linked to adobe building?
I had a truckload of sand delivered for my adobe making. Some of it smelled foul, like petroleum, so I called the trucking company to ask about it.
They swore that they got the sand from the Mississippi River banks. OK, then someone polluted the banks.
The clay I dug from my property. I had straw delivered, but that is a pain in the butt to mix.
Eventually, I started using horse manure instead.
It’s like straw, but much more easily worked with.
In the meantime, wasps have built nests in my adobe.
I made an adobe couch to sit on, but I have this one horse who delighted in knocking my couch down with her hoof. So I put a piece of metal where she hit it, and that worked for a while, but now it’s destroyed again.
My building is a pole barn, straw bale construction out in the pasture, as a shelter for the horses, with the adobe as a finish for the straw bale. (Not finished)
I read SES and used to be really into Wilber. But the race between paradise and hell has been lost. And Wilber’s refusal to talk about race has not helped. He is remarkably influental -his work comes up all over the place. In his published journals, he mentions “Bill and Hillary” – I believe it.
For example: in the latter incarnation of his work, he and Claire Graves developed a color code for consciousness. The whole of Sub-Saharan Africa is red, the lowest state of adult human consciousness which never get above concrete operational mental functioning. But he neglects to mention that genetics are more than half of IQ. The Black race is never going to get out of the red – unless and until evolution does its work. Don’t hold your breath. Unlike many here, he is both intelligent and aware enough to know this – but he witholds it. Why? For the sake of political correctness and worldly power is my guess.
Africa will continue to be a basket case until inhabited by a higher race of men. The Chinese intend to be that race. Liberals will continue to blather about White Racism while the Chinese take over.
Brothers Vlad and treebeardsuncle,
I couldn’t agree with you more!
I find the world was such a simpler place before color came along and confused everything. When I look at photos from the past and realize that our ancestors lived in the time where everything was clear cut and you didn’t have the deluge of distracting hues and couldn’t be fooled by all these glamorous colors to believe that there was actually anything showy, beautiful or unique. The black and white world had to be a time of clear headedness as each shade knew it’s proper place. But then those devils Eastman Kodak had to go and invent color. (I think that is who did it from my research on the internets)
As you seem quite wise, I’m sure you could agree that this where all the trouble started.
I mean garish greens and blues, radical reds and yellows, and sultry browns! What a horrible assault on sensible people! It made everything so pretty and unique. All kinds of simple-minded people became seduced by awe-inspiring appreciation for variety and choice. Fools! The sky was perfectly fine as a light gray and white clouds but they had to go and mess it up…stupid blues, and violets, and oranges…bunch of arty farty renaissance renegades!
On a positive note, I am sure it put a lot of people to work coloring the world but look at the destruction it has wrought. (btw I can’t find much on the internets about who did all the coloring and how but I assume it must have been a huge task…maybe chinese labor?…perhaps you can instruct me on this)
I find that the horror is best shown in the prophetic film The Wizard of Oz. I mean Dorothy was perfectly happy in the black and white world but then ran into all kinds of trouble and weird sympathies for diversity when she was sucked into that myriad multihued nightmare.
As a side note, I have a theory that this is why Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon lines up with this film because the Moon doesn’t seem to have suffered the terrible fate of confabulated color as much as our planet yet. (the fact that they used Pink in their name is quite a clever subterfuge)
Anyway, we should start immediately to get rid of color in all its forms. Then things can go back the way they are supposed to be. Think of how many people could get jobs removing all the color. It could save our economy! Put that in your big bad budget Obama!
Also, while we are at it, I think we have way too many different kinds of plants and animals. It just makes it impossible to know which is best.
I really like your idea of separating everything out. I think we should only have one type of tree, one type of flower, one type of dog and cat….etc… in each area. That way difficult decisions would not be a problem and there would be no disagreements or debates. What do you think?
I would be willing to help get this started but I couldn’t do it on my own. My kids are lazy so they won’t help. I would of course leave it to people much smarter than me to decide which things go where. My only humble request is that we get rid of bears. They are bloodthirsty killers.
I also have some questions about the wisdom of us adding a third dimension but I will leave that to another post.
I am glad to have found some kindred souls and I hope we can work together to make the world a much blander place!
It is not paranoia, Vlad.
I tried reposting it three times, then I tried again with the links deactivated and none of the four tries went through and each time it said it was being held for review by the blog owner.
Take the gum out of your mouth – you sound about 16. Part of me likes it, but part of me wants to remind you: Woman, you are dust, and to dust you shall return.
That reminds me of the teenager who complained that their family had no Christmas traditions.
They just did the same damn thing over and over each year!
One could say that Ivana Trump occupies a tiny piece of turf in the realm of tangential celebrity. As far as I am aware there is but one thing for which she is remembered and that is to have referred to her husband as “the” Donald.
There is no question about it – the superfluous “the” makes for an odd locution here in America, if not in Czechoslovakia. And this brings me around to the point of this reply to Diogen’s comment.
Maybe I’m just paranoid but I sometimes get the feeling CFNers are gathering clandestinely in the wee hours to think up new ways to get under my skin. The latest is the superfluous “the” – used by Dio not once but several times in quick succession:
. about patriotism being the last refuge of the scoundrels
. racial superiority is also the last refuge of the scoundrels
. IQ was also a gift of the providence
. an important factor during the TLE
Now, you may be miffed that I’m up to my old nitpicking schtick but you can blame Shecky who gave the go-ahead in the last sentence of his 7:50 PM post, right after a link he provided to some guy’s anti-straight-line diatribe. Whew! What next?
Vlad, I think you are distorting Wilber. He has stated that blue meme consciousness (which is more “advanced” than the red meme consciousness) has been more destructive.
He is looking at human problems from a standpoint of consciousness, not race, and what Wilber has to say about this is directly relevant to the Long Emergency and SHTF.
From Wilber’s book, The Theory of Everything:
Nothing about my logic of there being a relationship between the nature of an individual and a group of such individuals. Very well, I’ll answer you based on what you did say. For starters, name me a Black Country that isn’t a violent basket case? So much for the future of Toronto. Cash, if the Jamaicans and Haitians weren’t there, the city would be better. Just accept the simple truth.
On the broader level, where do you get the idea that such multiculturalism can work on a large scale? Name one such success story in history. Rome became like this – towards its very end. Egypt became multi-racial – in its decline. Such things just increase the confusion and chaos and increase the speed of collapse. They are not the primary cause – cultural degeneration is. But once there, they become powerful secondary causes that create the means by which the ex nation goes into the dust bin of history.
If I had to live in Beijing a few decades ago, I would have smiled and tried to get along. If Tokoyo, I would have learned bowing and their elaborate social sytem. A man needs company. But as soon as White Communities sprung up, I would be much less earger to fit in with the natives. Just so with our immigrants. They don’t need to try as hard anymore so they don’t. Seeing how weak we are emboldens them. We are now being colonized as China was in the 19th century – but far more profoundly. Massive numbers of Whites never moved to China as they are here.
Education? It was tried in 19th century India. I’m reading the biography of Bhaktivonode Thakur, a Hindu Scholar and Saint of the Krishna School who was also a well respected judge in the British System. He was well connected – the Tagores were his friends. All of them were educated in the British System, used that education and the English Language to unite India and throw out the British. Now they are coming here to do the same thing. Sure a few of them really convert to our way, just like a few Englishmen went native. A few Cash, not enough for what you dream about.
Your dream is about to become a nightmare because it was ill concieved from the begining. Asians have ancient cultures – they’re not going to throw that all away to become half assed White Men. Rather they will learn enough to function and then tell us how stupid and racist we are and how they really invented everything. To their credit, the Muslims have been explicit in saying that they will never become Europeanized. So the onus, the blame comes back to the men who believed the pie in the sky of multiculturalism. One must ask, how could you have ever though that Asians were appropriate immigrants for a Western Country? Or worse yet, Hispanics? Or worse yet, Blacks? The appropriate immigrants for Western Countries are Westerners – if you value Western Culture and want to maintain it. You value Western Culture, but don’t have any idea of how to maintain it. You eloquently describe the decline, but your policies made it inevitable. To make minorities welcome, a faux Canada has to be invented, maple leaf flag and all. The real Canada would not feel right to many Asians after all.
It all comes back to the nature of the part and the whole. A few individuals can adapt if they have to – but what’s in their heart? More Asians can adapt than Blacks, but that just increases the danger to the West. Sure a few of all groups will really adapt and come to love Canada and Western Culture. But that will be very few indeed Cash, just as very few Westerners could come to love India or China like that. Could you?
Your quotation marks around the word advanced are ridiculous – Wilber’s whole work is about hierarchy and what’s higher and what’s lower. As you have been told by many – the more knowledge and power, the more damadge that a group can do. There are many levels before reaching close to Spirit and Peace.
A cool old movie is Vincent Price’s “Master of the World”. A mad scientist filled with compassion invents weapons to force the world to lay down its weapons and be at peace. A great scene is when he’s in his dirgible over Africa and sees Arabs and Blacks about to go at it. He blasts them both to smithereens.
I agree with you in vision though: someday men will live close to nature even though they have great knowledge and advanced technology. Did such men ever live on Earth? I know you think so – I say maybe.
I saw that movie too – pretty good. The woman learns to see in color when she has an orgasm. Enjoy your snarky little skits and jabs, liberal. Your time is coming to an end. My time is coming and your kind will become the new outcasts. Your sons will work our fields and your daughters will bear our children. And that’s all if you’re lucky and keep your mouths shut. Once or twice a year we’ll let all the ex-proffesors go up on stage and debate. What comedy to hear these men of passion sputter about their meaningless dead ideals that don’t apply in the new world – and were wrong in the old world anyway.
Vlad said:
You are astute diogen. I have not accomplished much in life (other than getting the 3 degrees, some good test scores, producing a couple of children, and accumulating some money). So like a lot of people I focus on my birth-rights of population membership and intelligence. There is also issues of attraction and affiliation here.
This is a good place to post about race as you folks are defenseless and disorganized. There is no authority or collective will to repress and punish people for expressing themselves. You folks are very divided and isolated, strangers to one another and so do not act in concert. I have a knack for spotting weakness and see this as a convenient venue to give me an outlet. There are now 2 of us vehement race realists and separatists. More will come in time. Digging in the dirt (or having cornucopian fantasies) and being beholden to delusions of disastrous times coming, and living in social isolation will not enable you all to prosper and defend yourselves well.
Treebeards Uncle, you remind me this quote about patriotism being the last refuge of the scoundrels in an indirect way — feeling of racial superiority is also the last refuge of the scoundrels. As some guy here said, perhaps the only thing about yourself you respect is your race, which you did nothing to achieve. And your genetic IQ was also a gift of the providence. So, perhaps you have nothing to feel great about that you actually accomplished with your own efforts, and this is why you’re obsessed with your racial superiority?
I agree with Cash, we do need an intelligent conversation on race, but even with your high IQ you do not converse intelligently on race, you repeat the same thing over and over again: dark-skinned people are violent and have low IQ. How boring. I don’t see any sign of intelligence or IQ in your posts, you just parrot the same notions from Am. Ren. over and over..
And a question for you — why do you think this place is an appropriate forum for you to voice your racial views? Don’t give me a banal answer that race will be an important factor during the TLE…
Yes, you are right of course! I hadn’t thought of that…
We will need to worry about ‘ideological’ purity as well. My heavens, it wouldn’t be nearly enough to simply divide along racial lines. There are those pesky ideas that could be bantered about…and who knows what could become of that. Of course, I suppose speech suppression and re-education as you suggest could take care of that unpleasantness.
We must gather all the literals…and then there is the matter of the rights and the wrongs. I also see that you bring up the point of insiders and outsiders. Good catch!
It is quite a nice little state forming here to keep people industrious and focused on those new world ideals.
One thing that concerns me though is that in this caste system you are suggesting it is allowed to breed with the lower classes? You may want to rethink that one.
It is getting a bit complicated though. Is there any model in history that we could apply?
Digging in the dirt will not enable you all to defend yourselves well.
==============================
Lots of history says digging in the dirt is vital for self defense: trench warfare, foxholes, etc.
Fortified defense structures like machine gun nests are made from sandbags filled by digging in the dirt.
One problem I know with Simmons is that methane is not toxic, and he should know better. It’s the natural gas we cook with. It is an asphyxiant, like carbon dioxide, and in the proper concentration it’s explosive. For both these reasons the gas company is careful with it and adds a marker so we can smell it.
I think that either of these dangers in the context of high wind and rain is preposterous. But a huge cloud of methane in quiet weather could be very dangerous for a short time, although nothing like carbon dioxide. Some years back carbon dioxide bubbled up quietly from a volcanic lake in Cameroon and killed hundreds of people as they slept. Unlike CO2, however, methane is much lighter than air, so it won’t puddle up in low places like that.
“…in the proper concentration [methane] is explosive.
The families of eleven dead Deepwater Horizon oil rig workers will not disagree.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1275561/Methane-gas-bubble-triggered-Gulf-oil-rig-blast-killed-11.html
Vlad said: “Your quotation marks around the word advanced are ridiculous…”
I hereby retract my quotation marks.
You are correct about hierarchy.
If the power had gone off, and there was a scarcity of food, family cohesion would increase. Adversity would bring all of you closer together.
If the power had gone off, and there was a scarcity of food, you would have witnessed increased cooperation. That’s how we are programmed: to cooperate. It’s how we survive hardship. United we stand. Divided we fall.
Great Wilber quote Asoka.
We can see what happens when a red meme dictator gets hold of nuclear weapons — North Korea.
Years ago I took a grad course online via Naropa University based on Wilber’s book, “Integral Psychology.” Sometime later, the professor who taught it invited some of us to come to Boulder and meet Wilber for a two-day course at Wilber’s house atop the mountains west of Boulder. Wilber is amazing!
SJMom
Like a pimps or hustlers walking down the alley of filth, Vlad and TBU occasionally catch a glimpse of the cathedral steeple and claim the high ground as they descend into a dungeon of hate and segregation. I say let them go; it will be a lonely descent at any rate. On the other hand, it’s a bit tragic, the delusion that blinds Vlad to even the most basic demographic trends. The U.S.A. is not going to resemble some Teutonic fantasy land in the coming years, not even in the pacific northwest. More and more the country will resemble California. If I was a nice guy I would tell Vlad to pull his head out of his ass and face reality like a man instead of holding on to his racial claptrap like some pathetic security blanket.
It’s embarrassing to watch the two small pants live out there locker room trauma for all the world to see. Suffering from a bend in the middle, they look up, down, and all around for the scapegoat that vicariously assuages their primal sense of insecurity.
Crying uncle here and not from convincing argument. It’s painful to watch these two drive a sharp stake thru the abdomen of humanity in order to wield a “ look how long my prick is ” measuring stick of self- validation.
Like a pimps or hustlers walking down the alley
============
Vision, I can tell you’re here at CFN as much for the pleasure of writing as anything and yet on the second word you screw up.
Dear English Critic,
Thanks for noticing and upon further review I noticed some other errors as well.Initially I was going to address just Vlad, hence the a. But I’m not really here for the pleasure of writing as you say, although I wouldn’t mind more architectural discussion, specifically on the Eyesore of the Month pieces.
But you wrote the below–is something wrong?
“And market flim-flams and speculation started before tulip mania. Railing against the all-to-human idea of getting rich quick is a huge waste of energy.”
It’s overcast at Indianapolis Motor Speedway, but that means cooler temperatures for the Brickyard 400. Radar looks mostly clear for one of the most prestigious races on the Cup schedule. Green flag is scheduled for 1:18 p.m. ET, and Colombian race driver Juan Pablo Montoya will start on the pole.
========================
To all of you fortunate enough to have been found by a guru … HAPPY GURUPURNIMA DAY!
========================
I am large. I contain multitudes. And I celebrate everything!
But you wrote the below–is something wrong?
===============
Yes, of course ………… too
placed there purposely so those I tweak could find it and enjoy the pleasure of retribution. ;o)
When Racism Becomes Religion
Religion has demonstrated potential for great good.
It has great demonstrated potential for evil.
The “zealous faithful” of ANY religion are in danger of both great good and great evil entering their hearts, causing unbalance and damage.
(With respect to race this would include white racists, black racists, multi-cultural racists, open border racists, closed border racists…….THE ENTIRE OVERSIMPLIFY THE WORLD AND DENY REALTY RACIALLY RELIGIOUS BUNCH OF THEM!!)
The problem is that zealots explain every single human triumph AND every single human problem through the myopic lens of THEIR religion.
Parenthetically, how many of y’all know that that Thomas Jefferson wrote his own Bible, including ONLY the Words and Acts directly attributable to Jesus? It is a very small Book!
Many of my Baptist Brethren say that will earn President J a place in Hell, since Baptist theology considers all Scripture Divinely inspired and lacks any sort of Purgatory where one can change one’s mind before the Eternal Torment of Eternal Hellfire begins..
I disagree. Any comments?
And yeah…this has something to do with PO, CFN, and JHK’s writings.
Notes on Survival of the Human Race
Scientific American has an interesting article in the current issue concerning a previous keyhole event which almost eliminated the human race 165,000 years ago. The author conjectures and provides evidence that during
a major ice age, the only location where humans survived was near the tip of South Africa, on the eastern shore. Survival was fostered by a mild climate and the access to plentiful shellfish and plentiful root crops in an area which even today has great ecological diversity and a huge number of plants found nowhere else. Essentially all humans today are derived from that small number
(only several thousand). While this may have only tangential importance to our current “TLE,” the article provides food for thought.
Parenthetically, this does imply that “racial” differences today developed over a relatively short time in a cosmic sense. Humans have an extremely uniform genetic code compared to other species. Both sides of the racial arguments
found in this blog appear to suffer from a lack of understanding of genetic variation. First, a tiny difference in genetic code can lead to a huge difference in morphology. Similarly, environmental variation can cause huge differences
in how the genetic code is expressed. An example is a Hawaiian tree(the name escapes me now) which depending on how much water is in the local
environment expresses its leaf shape as compound or simple.
Second, evolution posits survival on the combination of all the traits of a species, including behavioral aspects. So it can be conjectured that monogamy is more necessary in adverse northern (cold) regions since the offspring can be receive better care by a couple. To the extent such behavior translates
into genetic variation, because of hormonal variational survival or other genetic coding survival, a predisposition toward such behavior can exist.
Third, the low variation of the code of humans means that whatever differences do occur will through breeding slowly emphasize those traits that promote survival. Traits may be behavioral, due to one or two code differences, or be
derived from a more complex combination. Eye color is one trait that seems to be dependent on 10 or more code differences. In our current environment one could argue that intelligence does not promote survival. The Long Emergency may change this. The problem exists now that “we” can in fact practice eugenics, but still lack the complete intelligence necessary to do
this morally or in fact correctly. Witness the huge preponderance of male babies in “one child” China.
Thus, survival occurs at the genetic level expressed through group behavior, and in the long run successful combinations of genes will survive.
-J
‘Witness the huge preponderance of male babies in “one child” China.’
Male babies. Another way of saying “cannon fodder.” It will be interesting to see if China fights a water war with India before they want to fight an oil war with us. Or for that matter an oil war with India. Dam the Brahmaputra, and pump it over the hump to China. Who says oil and water don’t mix?
Since they both have nukes the old math does not apply. Yet another failure of linear thinking.
Cue Shiva, laughing his ass off.
Does Pointing Out a Conspiracy Make Me a Theorist?
Nice summary and extension of the Scientific American article, Mindfool. Good points about the human near extinction event 175,000 years ago and what it means to human genetics today.
I used to subscribe to SA for work related reasons, but stopped years ago. I had not visited their digital magazine until you *suggested* it today.
SA has always been topnotch for readability and honest reporting of “real” science. The online edition continues those traditions.
So I’m nosing around the SA site and start looking at some global warming articles and opinion pieces. They look good; calm, well written, logical.
Then I check the comment threads on the global warming articles. Seriously, WHERE, do all these global warming deniers come from???
I’ll admit that I know several global warming deniers personally. I do not know a single one who reads AND comments on SA articles concerning the *hoax* of global warming.
Someone waaaayy back upthread this week pointed out that The Oil Drum comment threads changed the week of 4/20. I’m not in a position to check it out, but the webmaster of TOD might be.
Could there be a oil and coal industry funded campaign to “muddy the waters” on public comment threads related to PO, global warming…clean coal….or…pick your problem area??
I don’t know. And I’m not (believe it or not) a conspiracy theorist. I’m just posing the question to CFN.
Somebody ought to enjoy fighting this idea out!!
I was unaware science acknowledged humans going back 150,000 to 200,000 years!
‘Witness the huge preponderance of male babies in “one child” China’
sex abortions etc…India is most gender imbalanced society in world. china now steals wimmen from north korea , vietnam , other BFE places!
I havent been reading much of posts here but do enjoy Vlads vigilance and wariness at the elites successful attempt to fob multiculturalism on us/ europe..the best places are being turned into the worst place thanks to soros etc.
i dub thee ‘Asok The Unbearable, irritant supreme.
‘The Wizard of Oz’…it was written about the federal reserve?
Found this letter to the editor at American Rennaissance to be interesting. As it is anecdotal, it cannot be taken as a typical occurence of inividual behavior on the part of southern slaves as the Union army advanced. I have long found Sherman’s march to be an excessively damaging act, considerting that the South had already been defeated. Perhaps his aim and that of Sheridan and others was to ensure that the South would long be prostrate before an ascendant North.
The following is a direct quote which formed the content of a letter to American Rennaissance:
Sir — In the May issue there is a very interesting and informative review of Black Slaveowners by Larry Koger. In his review, Mr. Wilson mentions a black slave who escaped from the British during the Revolution to return to this master. This event tends to refute claims that slavery in America was invariably characterized by brutal cruelty.
Southerners who know their real history know that stories such as the one cited by Mr. Wilson are commonplace. One is of special interest for many reasons, including the fact that it marks the close of a disgraceful period in American history. It is a story which, for obvious reasons, has been allowed to be forgotten, but it was fortunately preserved in the WPA guidebook to South Carolina. (I heartily recommend the WPA guidebooks to AR readers. They are one of the few useful things to be produced by the Franklin Roosevelt presidency and are now repositories of much information that would be suppressed by liberals if they could.)
In the closing years of the War Between the States, the North embarked on a policy of seizing Southern hostages as guarantees against civilian resistance to the federal tactic of burning and destroying farms, villages, and cities. Gen. Sherman especially embraced this practice, since his armies were at times spread out over a front 60 miles wide. One can imagine that the Southern farmers of the 1860s were a tough breed, and took umbrage at the burning of their farms, but Sherman executed hostages if his soldiers met civilian resistance. While this seems harsh, and in fact the same policy by the Germans in World War II was rather hypocritically denounced by the United States, civilians who shoot uniformed soldiers are not entitled to be treated as prisoners of war.
As Southern resistance weakened, Sherman carried the policy even further. After burning Columbia, South Carolina, he announced that he would shoot prisoners and hostages even if uniformed soldiers of the Confederate army offered resistance. Gen. Wade Hampton denounced this as sheer murder.
In the last days of the war, as the Northern armies approached the southern border of North Carolina, a Sergeant Woodford of the 46th Ohio plundered a small farm near Pageland, South Carolina. He stole so much of the livestock and property that he could not haul off all his booty, and forced a black slave named Dick Sowell to help him carry it.
Sowell was outraged by the behavior of the Northern soldier. When Woodford stopped to take a nap, the slave picked up a piece of firewood and beat his brains out. He then collected the stolen property and returned it to his master.
When the body of the Federal soldier was found, Sherman decreed that a hostage had to die. He forced Confederate prisoners to draw lots. The unlucky draw fell to cavalryman James H. Miller who was executed by firing squad. His body lies in the Five Forks Cemetery four miles outside of Pageland, beneath a stone engraved “murdered in retaliation.”
Could a more politically incorrect story be written even as fiction? The last Southern hostage to be murdered by abolitionists died as a result of the brave actions of a slave outraged by the cruelty and thievery of a federal soldier. So much for the contemporary rewriting of Civil War history, according to which most black slaves “rose up” to greet their liberators.
See the following link for more including the authorship of this letter:
http://www.amren.com/ar/1996/06/index.html
May I also count you among the enlightened, the race realists, perhaps even a fellow separatist?
Geoff
Indeed….and all asoka offered is happy GP day…by the way north indias of the trika shava /tantra line dont celebrate this day….they consider it to be ‘ vedic’ so so much for peeps agreeing, even with in one religion.
by the way asoka whos yr guru?
I tried to use the Google to find out, but only found things on actual bloggers, not commenters.
But it doesn’t seem far-fetched that they would pay for commenters, as well as bloggers.
As for our commenters!
The Wizard of Oz was written in 1900. The Federal Reserve was established in 1913.
Supposedly the Wizard of Oz was written about the gold standard, and the hardships that it placed upon farmers and others. Man shall not be crucified on a cross of gold, and all that.
The Federal Reserve was meant to manage the money supply so as to even out capitalism’s booms and busts and keep them more under control.
The pre-Great Depression busts are down the memory hole, as well as the problems that the gold standard caused.
Asoka,
You emailed me, so the digital tit for tat can continue.
Actually, I’m giving myself permission to write you again anyway, because I’ve got you categorized.
You, young fella’ are a utopian. (Sorry, 8M, now that we’ve examined buses, trains, and cars for PMPG you are a pragmatist in my mind.)
BTW, CFN…. the winner in the passenger miles per gallon contest is a plain old passenger sedan with four passengers…not even JHK’s beloved trains hold a candle to cars for EXCELLENT passenger mileage.)
And Asoka, you’re a type of utopian I had never encountered. You are not a physical utopian…positing unlimited food and fuel….in fact FAR from it.
You are a mental utopian.
That is how you can acknowledge that an increasing US population’s rapacious use of planetary resources could destroy the Earth’s ecosystems….AND AT THE SAME TIME say that unlimited illegal immigration to the US is a good thing.
That is how you can be an advocate of the rights of women AND AT THE SAME TIME excuse Sharia Law for females on American soil.
Q said my advocacy for women on CFN was a red herring. He can call it a Great Blue Heron for all I care.
When the knives of Sharia Law begin to close on important body parts of American females I will speak.
To paraphrase Patrick Henry, “That girl keeps her clitoris, or give me death!”
Email if you like.
I will not respond if you are going to parse words, “strain at gnats,” and try to make it look like you are correct when you are wrong,
horribly wrong for the Earth and for human freedom.
“This is a good place to post about race as you folks are defenseless and disorganized. There is no authority or collective will to repress and punish people for expressing themselves.” Tbu
Okay then; careful where you travel in this great wide world… things might not be quite so “good”.
Asoka,
I don’t think so. My genetics and evolutionary biology professors were arguing for “group selection” back in the 70’s. I considered the argument somewhat specious then….still do, to a large extent….even though I understand it and can argue convincingly for it.
Understand that the social insects and naked mole rats in Africa form social units with IDENTICAL GENETICS. One identical set of genes for the entire colony. Only the queens and drones reproduce. A female worker bee who stings and dies defending the hive is genetically equal to the colony…much as one of my fingers is to me.
I can cut off a finger and still reproduce. A colony can sacrifice 1000’s of worker bees and still reproduce. (Not planning to cut off anything tonight, it’s a mental exercise.)
There is certainly cooperation among animal and human societies. There may be a gene for altruism…I understand that, and the purpose such a gene would serve for group reproductive success.
My firefighter son may have dominant alleles for altruism genes. I know I will Pray for him for every shift he ever works, as long as he fights fire and I draw breath.
Or maybe he just likes flashing light bars and sirens, fires and adrenalin. I’m just glad society has such people.
When you said,
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If the power had gone off, and there was a scarcity of food, you would have witnessed increased cooperation. That’s how we are programmed: to cooperate. It’s how we survive hardship. United we stand. Divided we fall.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Maybe you’d be right, over the long term. Of course Warren Buffet is also right, “In the long run, we’re all dead.”
I hope I never experience long power outages and food shortages at the beach with an extended family like my wife’s.
My own little group of 7, (which includes the on-again girlfriend-in-law) maybe could cooperate.
But because I’m the father, with known abilities of two grown sons and three grown women we’re related to by marriage…we’ve got something like a little organized command and control system.
We might make it, maybe, over the long term.
But it would still be pretty grim.
Which is why I choose to fight for *many aspects* of modern civilization over collapse.
Regards,
C
I agree. Have learned to do my ranting and raving in fairly safe venues. Carry on.
“Eternal Torment of Eternal Hellfire” You are right to disagree with these concepts.
http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/COLDFUSION/booklet.cfm?PID=6
Thanks for the link, MD, that’s actually very interesting information. It has some of the “ring of truth” to it.
Couple of questions:
1. You said recently that you thought “conservatives” would be in a better position to understand religion than liberals….even though conservatives currently have it all wrong…I’m quoting you from memory, probably not very well.
Just wondered if you could elaborate on that statement?
and
2. I understand the “messianic” part of your handle now, having looked at the website you gave.
How about the Druid part?
Am going to consider your items one by one here and see how people stand.
Your wrote:
“A comment made many times earlier on this blog really rang true. It was more along the lines of, “Yeah, TLE is coming. What do YOU think we should do about it?” So, in the interest of being constructive, instead of .itching, let’s talk about some survival ideas. I’ll put in my two cents since I follow this and similar blogs.
1) Get in shape. Lose some pounds. Excercise at least 4-5 times per week, if possible. Get quick(er) on your feet.”
That is a good point. Folks over 20 especially don’t do enough of that. Just ran a 5k (3.1 miles) yesterday in 25 minutes and 22 seconds.
“2) Eat less. The comment about the triple cheese, bacon cheeseburger speaks volumes about our supersize nation. Just put the burger down and back away slowly from the table, both hands up and off the food. Trust me, no one is gonna get hurt.”
Notice that serving sizes have gotten far bigger over the last 30 years. Plates have expanded from being 8 inches in diameter to around 14 inches in diameter for example. Now there are super-sized people in super-sized cars eating super-sized portions living less well than they did 40 years ago. More is not better after a point.
“3) Stop wasting your money on silly things. No more triple sets of hand towels, dish towels, gardening gloves, golf clubs, steak knives, whatever.”
To do that they will need to stop watching tv and not see movies much.
“4) Sell all the excess crap. I’m thinking garage sale for most stuff, E-Bay for the collectibles. This will help you travel light cause you’re probably going to need to during TLE.”
Well, some folks say waste not want not and have a hoarding instinct. Still you are generally right that a lot of the stuff can go.
“5) If you are a renter, go to the head of the class. During TLE, you don’t want to be hitched to a piece of property you can’t unload or make work (as in garden).”
Even better is owning a large spread outright and just paying a small tax on it. Think ag-res zonings are desirable.
“6) Learn how to cook, if you haven’t already.”
Am guilty of not doing this.
“7) Especially for the young people: Unless you are incredibly smart, gifted, talented, or rich, forget college. There are exceptions, of course. College has always been expensive, especially the private ones and the Ivy League. Choose carefully where you’ll spend the next four years AND alot of your money. Don’t get saddled with an onerous amount of debt in a world of people fighting for Mcjobs. That said, I value my years in college and would do it over again. But my alma mater, Bryn Mawr, is prohibitively expensive, and was even when my folks were paying the bills back in the day. Some of my old sorority pals have grandkids there, and I almost dropped my teeth when I found out what it costs. (all but the extremely wealthy have to get numerous grants, loans, scholarships, etc.)”
Have to be diligent too. I agree college is not for most people.
“8) Not to sound unromantic, but if you’re single, don’t get married. My generation experienced so many painful and expensive divorces because we were told not to have sex outside marriage(okay, we did it anyway, only on-the-sly). Girls were told that “nice” girls don’t. WRONG! Living together is just fine, trust me. And if you MUST get married, elope. No more ten thousand dollar plus weddings.”
Marriage is for some not for others. Expensive weddings are generally a waste.
“9) Again, in the interest of traveling light, try not to have (more) children. TLE will not be easy on them.”
I agree and disagree here. There need to be fewer children produced by stupid fat ugly people, especially those of blacks and Mexicans and more produced by smart good-looking white folks. The North Asians have made enough.
“10) Build connections. Support your local farmers’ market, develop a close network of friends on whom you can count and can count on you. We’re all going to need each others’ skills. No one will be able to make it alone.”
There are a lot of short-sided fractious isolates out there and a lot of them are online. Expect them to be beaten out by corporations and hordes of barbarians.
“11) Give some time and help to your favorite charity (mine is the Red Cross). Get in the habit of helping others. It makes you a better person, keeps you grounded, and reminds you that most people are genuinely kind out there.”
You can help if you like. Most people are cowardly conformists. A lot are vicious. If you don’t know that, you are very young, or a fool.
“12) Piggy back on number ll: Kill you television. Ninety-nine percent is pure, unadulterated b.s. I’ve seriously cut back my t.v. time and try to do anything but sit there and passively watch.”
Ok. You are right here. Also steer clear of watching movies and sporting events.
Last in the thread!!! 🙂
I think both TBU and MyrtleMay’s ideas
are eminently sensible. Too many “classic”
liberals think that everything requires
“activism” but, in point of fact, if
you’re obese, a heavy smoker, a couch
potato, a heavy media consumer, etc. …
your soul is being EMPTIED.
How much of an activist can you be if you’re
sixty pounds overweight and can’t walk one
hundred yards without a livid face, a 180
heartrate, and a severe breathlessness??
I’m amazed at the lumpen proletariat in
America these days. It’s shameful. The
TV, the fork, and the spoon have led
America into TLE just as assuredly as
the BP disaster, CEO greed, and crooked
politicians.
Indeed, by becoming what we’ve become, we
won’t have the ENERGY to fight the latter
or the WILL to give up the former!!
E.
I dont recall hearing abotu that event that occured 165,000 years ago, but there were at least two others that occured, one more recently at about 70,000 years ago caused by the supervolcano Toba, which may have left as few as 2,000 humans.Imagine the kinds of rapid changes that could occur species-wide.
http://io9.com/5501565/extinction-events-that-almost-wiped-out-humans
On a side note…
Check out nameta9 and old6598 on ilovephilisophy (dot com) and their views on EXCESS CAPACITY.
The “Excess Capacity myth”: the belief that there are huge excess capacities or potentials or wealth, money, real estate, scientific knowledge, possibilities, etc. enough to give a “free salary” to all: well this is false, is a forced “patternization” upon economy and the world, is not reality: the reality is that there really is no aggregate number measuring how much “wealth” or productive capacity or potential is available: economy is only, I REPEAT ONLY A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN CONFLICTING WILL POWERS, A FIGHT BETWEEN TWO OR MORE PEOPLE OVER RESOURCES, OVER WHO IS THE BOSS AND WHO IS THE SLAVE.
In theory, yes there is enough know how and technology and organizational understanding, etc. to give a free salary to all, say 3,000 dollars a month to easily live comfortably for everyone, cheap rents for high quality homes, etc. (there are more than 10 million empty homes between the USA and the entire European continent (from Lisbon to Moscow) and JAPAN), etc. You can pay much more to those that work jobs that are actually needed like doctors, dentists, construction workers and factory workers, say from 6,000 dollars a month up while everyone else should stay at home and watch TV, as this is the ultimate end point of human evolution as it achieves all our needs without having to exert any effort: the images realize all the causes and effects that we desire, it makes no difference if they are real or fake, real and fake are themselves imaginary concepts.
The real bottom line ? The value of homes, the value of commercial property, the value of real estate: these values have been blowed up way out of proportion starting from the JAPAN of the 1980s, most of the European Union and the USA from the 1970s to present. These values have been way above average salaries, have no correspondence to the reality of what people make and more alarmingly so, what people will possibly make in the future. These values like house above 200,000 dollars in California, 2 bedroom homes in London of 400,000 dollars etc. are completely bogus, imaginary, impossible to be real and in fact are not real. These home values have been inflated way beyond reality for three reasons:
1) To make people “feel rich”, to give them an illusion of how rich they are and how much money they could “cash in” when they “sell” (as if it is so automatic and easy to sell in any possible future ignoring how everything can possibly change in the future);
2) To find some kind of investment for the 80 trillion dollars of profit money hanging around in the world not knowing what to do, to find some kind of magical return, return on investment, profit for money just sitting in a room. Now I feel the entire concept of investment and profit is mostly a farce, bogus, unreal, is a make believe fantasy, magical thinking gimick: investments can be made and profits and money can be made in certain areas (apple with their ipad), chinese factories turning out products by paying their workers 200 dollars a month, etc: but the bottom line is that most profits are made by giving less money to some actors and skinning off more for the owner’s class. Not much by “innovation”. But they found a great “innovation”: make real estate values and prices blow up forever, and make people believe and pay ever higher prices for these homes, for this basic good everyone needs, and let them pay by borrowing from the “future”.
3) Convince everyone that there is a “population explosion”, that housing is scarce, that you have to get your “own house” before the “resources run out”. In fact most nations are undergoing a flat population growth, some are going backwards, the future is not in resource scarcity, there are and will be any number of homes available to anyone. They are mostly kept off the market, they are mostly fake scarcities due to the fact that the jobs are all in hot areas so everyone wants a home in the hot areas and the prices go sky high.
The prices of homes in the developed world most go WAY DOWN, like not more than 100,000 dollars for a 2 bedroom whether in JAPAN, UK or California. Because the future “work” that people will need to pay these homes will not and cannot pay salaries of more than 500 to 1000 dollars a month: there is no reason to pay white collars workers in Los Angeles or London more than can be paid a guy in Sao Paolo, Brazil or Jakarta, Indonesia. In these places a dude will readily accept 800 dollars a month, is more disciplined and better educated and will be very happy to make such a “high salary as perceived by them”. This is the future reality.
Last in the thread is a moving target, E, not sure you can hit it. 🙂
I generally admire the way “recurrent posters” hold off on Monday mornings. And you rarely see a squabble from the previous week “spill over” into a new week.
At least until the pro-racists and the anti-racists start nattering at each other again.
*************************************************
Anyway, my mental housecleaning…….
In my questions to messianicdruid I did not mean to leave implied agreement that “conservatives” are more genuinely religious than “liberals.”
I have known many “conservatives” who have never missed a church service. Yet, they *seem* outwardly to be complete hypocrites. They go to church for the business contacts and friendships. The spend their business, political, and personal lives *seeming* to ignore any lesson their church may have tried to teach.
I know one at least one “liberal” who lived in love and died for His Belief. His name was Jesus.
**************************************************
And on insect societies….far too much ink has been spilled over the centuries saying that people should be more like insects.
“Go to the ant, thou sluggard….” Was written by a man in a male dominated society who had NO knowledge that all worker ants are female.
Maybe I can tell some “true insect stories” if I can figure out a way to tie them into peak oil.
Bizarre Mating Habits of the Honeybee
will be an amazingly brutal story with which to begin….some day…
Have a great week, CFN!!
Check out:
http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=22324
The Instant Singularity will open brains, change their circuits and create new universes. The guy with the Beard, the racist, that brain must be opened, the circuits all changed, he will then be OK again.
Science will go forward and triumph, computers and Cyborgs will dominate, the Technological Singularity is near: Technology is winning, all you losers can go in the farm and eat crap, Technology is going towards the Singularity, where young scientists are marching forward in South Korea, in JAPAN, in Scandinavia, in parts of India. All you loosers, can just go away…
And we need FREE SALARIES 3,000 dollars a month because the economy is now an automatic system that generates trillions of dollars of completely free wealth, and high quality homes for very little rent (100 dollars a month), and BUS SYSTEMS for mass transit and trillions of skyscrapers. And the worldwide population can easily reach 10 trillion, that is no problem, technology can build skyscrapers with 200 floors, and space travel, the future is coming, watch out…
8M,
Take it easy, dude, I’m sure there is a lot of agreement with a lot of your ideas.
Just realize that you can burn people off the whole utopian theme with one *humorous* offensive statement.
“Technology is winning, all you losers can go in the farm and eat crap,”
Some of us may like the farm, the old ways, or outdoor living. That’s our utopia.
And “crap” is in the eye of the beholder.
Best regards,
C
What if he’s right….I suspect he isn’t?
This is worth a look-see…
http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/2010/07/23/is-matt-simmons-credible/
Have a nice day (yall)…. no matter your creed, ethnicity, genetic heritage or whether you be with or without solar….*sniggers*
With many years as a geologist/petroleum engineer for several major companies and 21 years as a consultant to the oil and gas industry, whatever Matt Simmons is good at; it does not include the basic understanding of the orgin, migration, trapping of oil nor the technology involved in drilling High Pressure High Temperature (HPHT) wells in very deep water. My first involvment with offshore exploration and drilling was 1962 and continues with the occasional consulting job.
There is no abiotic oil! There are lakes or rivers of oil under the ground!!! Oil and gas is found in the spaces (pores) between the grains of sand and other minerals after they have been come to rest either on land or in water (river, lake, sea, ocean), been buried to as deep as 18,000 feet or more. With burial temperature and pressure increases and can casue minor to very changes in the sediments. The sediments are moved about by plate tectonics. The plates are interpreted to be driven by “top down cooling of magma extruded along oceanic ridges and gravity.”
This activity can create or enhance small local areas of geology to make to create traps that will hold oil or gas for geologic periods of time (tens of millions of years or more). If there is a mature source (clay/shale containing more than 2% organic material that with time, increased temperature and pressure has generated oil and gas) some of this oil and gas will migrate as tiny gossamer wings (spider webs in the sunlight) upwards and away from the source rock. It migrates through connected pores and/or fractures. Some of it reaches a trap (small percentage of all that is generated) and if that trap is destroyed by later tectonic activity, some clever geologist might induce the dullards in management to spend enough money to find it. Firt with geologic study and followed up by seismic acquistion and later exploration wells if the prospect is passes the test or the geologist is a good enough salesman to get budget approval. In the case of the Macondo well, that is upwards of 100 million dollars.
HPHT wells are very difficult to drill. BP have developed a ‘bottom line culture’, mostly by people esconsed in offices far from the front line and safety for those on the front line only PR (BS) support.
BP and Tranocean made so many mistakes on the well that it is clear that they have few personnel who have enough experience to be allowed any where near an HPHT well.
The series of mistakes in planning, preparation of the rig to drill this HPHT well eventually led to the disasters blowout, loss of 11 men and many of millions of barrels of oil spilled into the GOM.
The decision to offload the heavy drilling fluid in the well that balanced the formation pressure was the final and fatefull decision. If they had stopped what they were doing from time to time they (any one in the crew) would have discovered that the well was flowing and the bottom plug that had been set in the liner was not hold back the formation pressure and oil was entering the well. Natural gas dissolves in oil just like sugar in water. The amount of gas that will be dissolved depends on the compostion of the oil and the compsition of the gas and that is determined by the cooking pot (the mature source rock and source of the gas and oil).
From the tiny amount of information that is available on this well (BP has not released 99% of the data and our team of experts does not know what questions to ask and what data is/was essential to understand the condition of the well before and after the blowout), the sequence of events is likely to be:
Bad casing design and too few barriers to flow fromm the well.
Set bottom plug in 7 inch liner near the total depth of well, but did not ensure that it was holding the formation pressure.
Looked to set another temporay plug in the well deeper down in the will than the plan submitted to MMS.
While waiting for approval of the deeper plan, the started offloading the heavy (more dense drilling fluid). Why not? they were sure the plug they had set, but not adequately tested was going to hold the formation pressure. Before starting to offload the drilling fluid, they should have come out of the hole and run picked up tools and run down to the wellhead on the seafloor and locked down the last string of casing that had been landed in the wellhead. This would have created a barrier to any oil/gas coming up the annulus outside of the innermost and last string of casing that ran from the wellhead to total depth.
They continued offloading drilling fluid without stopping to check if the well was flowing. The flow rate can be very slow at first.
Eventually the oil entering the well reached a point high enough in the well adn where the back pressure from the fluid above the oil was less than the bubble point for this oil. The bubble point is the pressure at which dissolved gas starts coming out of solution. This bubble point is probably known by BP, but I have not been able to discover that data. From experience and the sequence of events preceding the blowout, my estimate for the Bubble Point pressure is about 2300 pounds per square inch. With sea water in the well this would allow the gas to come out of solution a few hundred feet below the seafloor where the wellhead and blowout preventer(BOP) are located.
The first gas expands pushing more fluid above out of the top of the well on the drilling floor.
From 2300 psi just below the BOP, the gas would expand 155 times by the time it reached the surface and atmospheric pressure of 14.7 psi at sea level. I have calculated that 911 barrels of oil could have entered the casing by the time the oil had risen in the casing to 5,300 feet below sealevel and a few hundred feet below the BOP. This type of oil could have held about 3000 cubic feet of gas in solution. Thus, 2,733,000 cubic feet of gas might have been available to expand 155 times to 423,615,000 cubic feet of gas on the floor of the rig. That is why it blew the fluid in the riser above the oil in the casing and riser from the BOP stack to the floor with such force that it is reported to have reach a height of over 300 feet. There would have been mostly gas at first, but the amount of oil would have increased after the first big bubble of gas was out of the well. One of the reasons it was so hard to estimate the flow from this well was that we were seeing the very turblent flow caused by gas coming out of solution which was happening before the oil reached the broken pipe and later the top of the BOP. Thus a mixture of gas and oil was likey what we were witnessing and two phase flow is more difficult to measure. We did get a measure of how much oil was coming out and they were capturing most of it.
The gas expansion as it comes out of solution is an acclerating problem and must be dealt with in seconds by experienced crew who know what to do and the consequences of each thing that they do.
The abandoment of the Mancondo well.
The top plug would ordinarily be a far less favorable way to stop this well. We should have had some explanation from our ‘experts’ why this was done.
My explanation was that the formations from which the oil is flowing have been naturally fracture by the high pressure (this comes from rapid burial, insulating formations that don’t let heat dissipate and the fluids in the pores expand faster than the rock matrix) in the formation and were further fractured when BP were careless during their drilling operation. In fairness, it takes some very experienced personnel to drill in a formation where the formations are at the fracture pressure. There is a constant battle to keep the formation pressure balanced and not lose drilling fluid in the fractures. When that happens the pressure in the borehole is lowered and the well starts flowing (kicks).
BP were afraid to drill into the annulus in the producing formations because they knew about the problem of the fractured formation and the possiblity of having real problems with the relief well. Thus, they opted to put a cork in the top of the well in the form of cement.
Fluids are essentially incompressible so any fluid pumped into the annulus or the casing of the Macando well has to find a weak spot. If the cork at the top holds, the most likely place the fluid will go is into formations. The producing formations or into formations higher up in the well if they offer less resistance.
A bottom kill where the kill fluids pumped from the bottom of the well were followed by just the right mixture of cement that reached the seafloor and flowed out of the BOP would be the only way we know that we have finally killed the Macondo well. With the plug in the top of the well, the only we will not be able to evaluate the well except with pressure tests. Other options like drilling out the top cement all or part of the way would entail too much risk and little reward other than satisfy our wish to better understand where the cement is in the will and if further squeeze cementing operations might be helpful.
This is just a plain HPHT well with all of the risks involved in exploring for, apprasing and produing these fields. There are no lakes, rivers, or vast oceans of oil in the subsurface.
Every school child should know this. If you are an adult and don’t know this you have not paid attention or don’t have enough curiosity to find out. Some choose to be informed, other choose to be uninformed about such things.
Sorry, but I am to tired to edit this rant. Hope that it clears up some points for those who are interested.
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though nothing official-sounding backs the chatter. Just like last week. it’s a moment of serious challenge as well: a challenge to all of us to make sure we stay aware, Henry Miranda,Miu Miu Purses, Angel Salazar and champion kickboxer Don “The Dragon” Wilson. The league approved the sale of the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan’s ownership interest in the Toronto Raptors to Bell Canada and Rogers Communications. that also was the likely explanation for why shares of Coach (COH) rocketed, Here’s our guide to today’s polls and why they matter,Miu Miu Purses. you’ll likely have to file tax forms in the foreign country in which you reside.
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Increasingly,Stella McCartney Bag, the really “senior” people on the staff — those in their 30s and 40s who had been through presidential campaigns — could not hide from younger colleagues their intuitive sense that the national polls could not be turned around. By Labor Day, we knew we could fight the good fight, but to no avail.
The inevitable gallows humor began to affect K Street. “Did you hear about the great result of the new poll?” “No, what was it?” “We’re only behind 55-45 at headquarters.”
?listening to their findings about the BP accident and the safety of deepwater drilling, the president abruptly changed the subject.
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William K. Reilly, a former chief of the Environmental Protection Agency and a commission co-chairman, was startled, as was Carol M,Miu Miu Handbags. Browner, the president’s top adviser at the time on energy and climate change,Stella McCartney Bags. Although a proposal by Shell to drill in the Arctic had been a source of dissension,Stella McCartney Handbags, it was not a major focus of the panel’s work.
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?surveyed the political landscape ahead of the 2008 presidential election, its lobbyists compiled a thick planning book for dealing with the three likeliest winners, ranking them in order of predicted finish,Miu Miu Bags. First was Hillary Rodham Clinton, followed by John McCain. Last was Barack Obama.
Shell retained the retired senators John B. Breaux, Democrat of Louisiana, and Trent Lott,Stella McCartney Bag, Republican of Mississippi,Stella McCartney Handbag, to lobby Mrs. Clinton and Mr. McCain.
Approaching Mr. Obama, with far less history in Washington, took more creativity. One top Obama adviser who offered some hope to Shell was Mr. Obama’s Senate chief of staff, Pete Rouse. With family roots in Alaska and experience as an aide to the state’s Republican lieutenant governor,Stella McCartney Bags, Mr,Stella McCartney Bag. Rouse understood the importance of oil to Alaska’s economy and knew the politics of oil and the Senate. He eventually became the White House point man on Arctic drilling.
A more unlikely campaign aide destined to play a significant role was Ms. Zichal, Senator John Kerry’s former legislative director. Her first trip to Washington had been as a college student and an advocate for the Alaska Wilderness League, lobbying against drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
The 2008 campaign played out amid near-record gasoline prices. The Bush administration and the McCain campaign pushed for lifting the Congressional moratorium on most offshore drilling, and Republican campaign rallies were punctuated by cries of “Drill,Miu Miu Bags, baby,Stella McCartney Bags, drill.”
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It welcomes the impending Davies commission which, That orthodoxy is still disputed by some even within aviation, woe is me”. the math works out that an indexed strategy, Depending on one’s vantage point, particularly among elites, MY PICK: Georgia, 7:00 p.” Ogletree said. “But Dallas is my home now.
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