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What I Did On Summer Vacation

     Oh what a mighty spewage of vinyl weighs heavy on this land!
     A dark mood spread through the body politic like a septic infection last week in response to bad numbers in employment, housing, and commerce, not to mention unease about the now complete takeover of the stock market by robot traders. But I left it all behind to trip across New England from the Vermont border to Maine and back, and many a strange thing did I see….
     New Hampshire’s got their state motto on the license plate wrong: Live Free or Die. It ought to read Live Free and Die. Just north of Concord on I-89 there’s a highway rest stop. The primary retail outlet there is… the state liquor store! Yes, for some reason the New Hampshire government controls the sale of liquor. Puritan guilt?  Creeping socialism?  Who knows. Apparently some brilliant state wonk got the idea that they could maximize revenue by selling liquor to motorists. Now, granted, not everybody motoring up I-89 is an alcoholic, but surely some of them are. Maybe it’s a scheme to kill off the Boston Irish — but at some risk to the citizens of The Granite State. Note: there was no coffee shop on the premises. I kid you not.
     Meanwhile, New Hampshire’s little wedge of seacoast has been completely coated in vinyl, as if some angry god decoupaged the darn thing after eating a bad clam roll. The world has never before seen an array of seaside cottages so uniquely hideous as the ones we passed from Seabrook to Portsmouth. The owners had managed to try every proportioning system and every color scheme known to man — except the right ones. They made your eyeballs wobble in their sockets just motoring by them on US Route 1-A — and we were not unaware, of course, that our presence on the road, along with ten thousand other pleasure-seeking tourists, only made these houses seem worse by dint of the highway’s toxic proximity.
     We stopped for lunch in a clam bar, naturally. The dining room was populated by a new race of humanoid behemoths, great lumbering brutes the size (and shape) of giant sloths, only dressed in the raiment of clowns, downing heaps of battered fried things, purportedly of-the-sea — except I honestly don’t see how there can be anything alive left to catch out there with the industrial-strength trawlers scraping the ocean floor as if they were Zamboni machines grooming the rink at the Boston Garden. I would like to tell you that we ordered cucumber sandwiches but it would be a lie. We got the clam strips — that is, clam rolls minus the rolls. For all I know, someone in the kitchen is shredding old Michelin inner tubes for the Fry-o-later, but it’s all about the cocktail sauce anyway.
     There were more giant sloths wading curiously in the surf (still hungry perhaps?) as we crossed the border into Maine, where you really want to weep for your nation. Is there any way to fuck up a landscape that has not been tried there, short of all-out war (which might actually have the benefit of`clearing a lot of muck away)? Maine is where the oil fields of Texas crawled off to die, and left their remains in a thousand miniature golf courses, giant plastic signs shaped like lighthouses, lobsters, schooners, whales, fisher-folk and other ghost-like entities no longer of this world, and enough asphaltic free parking to accommodate the automobile club of the hosts of hell.
     The awful cavalcade prompted me to remember that it’s all over for this stuff and the pattern of culture it represents. What you are seeing is the residue of an economy that no longer exists. I doubt we will build any more of it. You’re just left wondering what becomes of it all now that we slouch toward oil depletion, climate change hijinks, the vanishing of capital, penury, and possibly starvation. In the years ahead there will be fewer and fewer vehicle miles recorded on these inevitably disintegrating highways — with the sharp sea air gnawing away at every I-beam and truss in the overpasses and bridges, and the government too broke to do anything about them — and the American middle class with their quaint touristic habits will join the codfish, sperm whales, and great auk in the Atlantic Ocean’s extinction Hall of Fame. The Long Emergency can’t come soon enough.
     The long agony of motoring up the coast brought us eventually to Mt. Desert Isle where Mr. John D Rockefeller, Jr. had the foresight to capture most of the acreage and hand it over to the National Park Service before it could be turned into another clam roll empire. The majesty of Acadia National Park is a rebuke to all the tragic hucksterism that destroyed the coastline everywhere else in New England through the miserable 20th century. We hiked the rocky scree trails around the summit of Cadillac Mountain and the path along Otter Cliff, which smelled like Christmas and chowder, and didn’t see too many people away from the motor roads. Here and there the bell of a lonely buoy sounded distantly through the creeping fog making the frantic absurdity of daily life in America seem like a mere bad memory. Then we had to leave.
     We took a different route home, more northerly, across a rural Maine region largely un-molested by the toils of tourism, but stunningly poor. Some of it looked like Arkansas — not the part where WalMart lives, either. At long intervals we passed through mill towns where the mills are now silent and the only visible business was the tattoo trade. Even there in the New England backwaters, the toxic superhero-thug culture of Hollywood rules and the idle grandsons of mill-workers glowered in death-metal regalia at passing strangers as if they were auditioning for parts in the next Road Warrior movie. Not a few of them seemed to have lopsided heads. Does crystal meth do that?
     Everywhere along the route, shovel-ready highway improvement projects from the late stimulus crusade were now underway, and you wondered exactly what kind of future they were intended to serve — or was it all a kind of weird national potlatch ceremony in which we were literally throwing away our wealth to memorialize what seemed normal the day before yesterday and never will be again. 
     Compared to the ominous vastness of Maine, northern New Hampshire was a blur. Somewhere in the White Mountains, punch-drunk with motoring fatigue, we stopped at the only available venue for coffee in one little burg, a McDonalds as chance would have it, apparently staffed by client-workers supplied by the ARC — and I’m not trying to be funny mentioning that. You wondered how much such an agency was creaming off their minimum wage salaries. This is what it’s come to now in the Home of the Brave: corporate wickedness knows no bottom.
     The last weird display we encountered was the mystery of highway cones in Vermont. The orange rubber cones were deployed along the center line of I-91 for scores of miles, with absolutely no sign that any project — shovel-ready or otherwise — was underway, leading us to suspect that the project of cone deployment for its own sake was a kind of rogue stimulus program. Just cones, cones, and more cones, as baffling as crop circles. No heavy equipment, no men in hard hats. Just mile after mile of cones. Whatever it signified, it was at least equally unproductive as high frequency trading — the other half of what’s left of the US economy.
  Home again and suddenly fall is in the air. Or is it the distant sound of falling knives?

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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

529 Responses to “What I Did On Summer Vacation”

  1. myrtlemay August 23, 2010 at 10:28 am #


  2. drpiper August 23, 2010 at 10:37 am #

    I was traveling from Chicago to Kansas City. I stopped in Newton Iowa for lunch. If aliens are raising us for food, Newton Iowa is the epicenter. I’ve never seen such huge people–all of them…

  3. TreeHuggingLiberalPinko August 23, 2010 at 10:41 am #

    JHK’s message is a wake-up call. To those that regularly comment here, if you are awake do something about it. I live in an area with rich farmland and vibrant small towns, this was a conscience choice. Over the past 10 years, I have worked with others of like mindedness, to strengthen small businesses.
    We prevented a wal-mart coming in and have designated downtown as a historical district, therefore, keeping chain stores out. When other areas where “booming” these past 20 years with new development, my community placed onerous requirements on developers to discourage “growth” while at the same time buying up land to be perpetually preserved as “open space” – farmland. I have lost count of how many farmer’s markets there are now, there is one in every town and a couple between each town. There is a new artisan cheese making guild. Numerous wineries, artisan bread stores, grass-feed beef, buffalo, ostrich, hand-made clothing boutiques, sweaters made from alpaca wool, a guy who carves these incredible fountains from lava rock. Main street (it’s Bridge St in my town) is closed to traffic every Friday night and Saturday afternoon during the summer for one festival or another. JHK came to speak at the local university about 10 years ago and commented that this wasn’t the type of place he normally went to, that we were doing things right, however, things are much, much better now then they were then.
    So, what is my point? It can be done. James woke you up, now do something in your community. I didn’t do all of this, but I played a small part and I contribute every time I go to the farmer’s market rather than the grocery store or shop on main street rather than Target. The time has come to start making the world made by hand. It is easier to do it now, by making something, anything on the weekends in your basement or garage while you still have a job. Go to zoning meetings an oppose new suburban development. Commit to buy local goods (even if they are a little more expensive).
    The reward… I recently traveled outside my area (something I rarely do, and now think I will never do again). It was then that I realized how bad the economy is. We are still hurting, but our local economy is doing great in comparison.

  4. Lynn Shwadchuck August 23, 2010 at 10:42 am #

    Giant sloths. What a dark comment on the epidemic of morbid obesity. It tells me that people are not as oblivious to the unraveling of things as we smarty-pants might think. I believe it’s parallel to an epidemic of chronic anxiety. I wish the solution were as simple as holding workshops on how to eat well – healthy, convenient, cheap, green – but addiction holds on tight.
    Diet for a small footprint and a small grocery bill

  5. myrtlemay August 23, 2010 at 10:45 am #

    Welcome back, JHK! As dismal as the sites mentioned in the post were described, more dismal for anyone wanting to “get away” is the incredible traffic and punchy, road-rage drivers. Even the most pleasant vacation experience buzz can be killed off by motorists speeding down the interstates and mowing down anyone or anything that gets in their way. Adrenaline rushes through my blood when assaulted by the S.U.V., monster truck, and Hummer crowd on the big interstates. I wonder if this Adrenaline rush is similar to what a meth addict experiences.

  6. Rojelio August 23, 2010 at 10:47 am #

    Yeah, you can certainly feel the decay when driving across the country. One thing I’m worried about is what happens to our fiat money. If it doesn’t totally collapse, then it will be horribly depressing to watch the top 1% of people continue to concentrate the wealth while the base of the big box pyramid completely crumbles. Will the money crumble along with the other infrastructure and become a great equalizer?

  7. Newfie August 23, 2010 at 10:47 am #

    I was hoping for a few words of remembrance for Matt Simmons…

  8. San Jose Mom 51 August 23, 2010 at 10:52 am #

    I hope JHK will post some pictures from his trip.
    This is probably a dumb question, but what is ARC?
    As far as traffic cones are concerned, I experienced the same thing as I was driving on I80 through Nevada — 10 miles of orange cones for no apparent reason. This reminds me of a joke:
    Q: What’s orange and sleeps six?
    A: A CalTrans work vehicle.

  9. Bobby August 23, 2010 at 10:53 am #

    “…these inevitably disintegrating highways — with the sharp sea air gnawing away at every I-beam and truss in the overpasses and bridges, and the government too broke to do anything about them — and the American middle class with their quaint touristic habits will join the codfish, sperm whales, and great auk in the Atlantic Ocean’s extinction Hall of Fame. The Long Emergency can’t come soon enough…..”
    It’s here, baby. The Rt. 1 drawbridge between Portsmouth,NH and Kittery, ME is posted at 3,000 lbs.! My olds SAAB weighed 4,000 lbs. A week or so ago,m someone saw a large chuck of metal fall off of it into the tidal river. Whew!

  10. Zoltar August 23, 2010 at 11:09 am #

    I noticed the traffic cone phenomenon too, Jim, as I drove through West Virginia and Ohio last week. Hundreds of miles of cones, with no work being done by ready shovels. My provisional theory is that impoverished states are placing cones to appear to be meeting the minimum requirement for claimed stimulus money, but are hoarding or spending the money on more pressing needs – likely debts – instead. Presumably the feds would catch on to this ploy at some future time, but the Long Emergency will probably keep that from ever happening. I suspect we would all be better off spending our retirement funds now, for all the good they’ll do us down the road.
    I enjoyed reading “World Made by Hand” last week. Your imagined future is less awful – for resourceful and industrious people, at least – than the one I fear. I hope you’re right about that.

  11. D. Benton Smith August 23, 2010 at 11:09 am #

    About those cones.
    Let me hazard a guess that Vermont, like many States, doubles the fine for traffic violations that are committed within construction zones.

  12. nothing August 23, 2010 at 11:13 am #

    Great writing as usual, Jimbo, but you forgot food stamps! At least we won’t starve. The government says so! Print as many as you like at http://www.thenothingstore.com

  13. sprezzatura August 23, 2010 at 11:16 am #

    “Clam strips” are not clams – they are scallop rinds. The waste part of the scallop is trimmed from the shell, cut into strips and sold as ersatz clam.
    I think the ARC is a reference to ARC Diversified, a “non-profit corporation, in Cookeville, Tennessee, mainly concerned with hiring and training the severely disabled in the manufacturing of food products”.
    See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARC_Diversified

  14. Puzzler August 23, 2010 at 11:21 am #

    Jim, what’s with the crack about ARC workers?
    ARC is/was Association of Retarded Citizens, although ‘retarded’ was dropped in the early ’90s. They provide many services to people who otherwise wouldn’t get jobs and part of that is arrangements for employers to pay less than prevailing wages proportionate with less productivity.

    To pay a worker a commensurate wage, the Department of Labor requires an employer to analyze a job’s requirements and compare the productivity of a worker with a disability doing that job to a worker without. For example, if the average wage paid for product assembly is $8.00 per hour, and a disabled worker can only perform at half the rate of a worker without a disability, the commensurate wage would be $4 per hour.

    Perhaps Jim would prefer that warehousing the ‘retarded’ be reinstated — they could use some of those beautiful vacant industrial buildings.

  15. marty August 23, 2010 at 11:26 am #

    Well, not a global solution but…
    My wife and I are going on another of our annual early fall bicycle camping trips in the Canadian Maritimes.
    They look like Maine used to look half a century ago.
    By bicycle we almost always wind up taking the side roads which the developers skip.
    There’s nice rural areas that really are worth visiting. But maybe not in a car.
    Marty Cooperman
    Cleveland Ohio

  16. Al Klein August 23, 2010 at 11:26 am #

    I’ve seen this kind of abject residue of former “glory” before. Back when I was a child, a traveler on a road trip to the Jersey Shore (from Philadelphia) would see the same kind of blight. Of course there was no vinyl back then in the 1950’s and 60-‘s, but that didn’t diminish the utter tackiness of it. Back then the two main roads to the shore were the White Horse Pike and the Black Horse Pike. the White Horse Pike was plenty honkytonk. But the Black Horse Pike won the tacky and decrepitude award hands-down. Both of these roadways led to Pleasantville and Atlantic City. Both towns were run-down, faded and tacky. What makes this relevant to the current topic is that these roads and the towns to which they led were the residue of the former glory of the roaring ’20s. There was plenty of vehicular traffic back in the ’20s going tom the shore. Much of that ended with the great depression. What I saw as a child was about 20-30 years after the great depression. And what I saw was not very dissimilar to what JHK describes in his recent summer adventure. Except for no vinyl and far fewer fatties. There is one difference, though, between back then and now. And that difference is oil. The oil frenzy of the last 30 years allowed the “new” Atlantic City to come about, with all its faux glitter. Frankly, I don’t see any similar deus-ex-machina in the near future.

  17. mikesully13 August 23, 2010 at 11:29 am #

    ARC used to be the ancroyn for Association of Retarded Citizens; they have stopped using it and now just go by Arc.

  18. endofworld August 23, 2010 at 11:32 am #

    As a trucker for 38 years burning 70 gallons of diesel fuel a day to bring all you yahoos(affectionately) your daily needs,i tend to think i have seen it all-my friends and i are tightening down the hatches,preparing for whatever end we are going to see-sorry,your going to have to get your own groceries,goods,gasoline-we aren’t going to bring them-looks like things are going to be too rough out on the hiways- it really has been fun while it lasted-soon,a hat tip and a wave good-bye….(and Jim,i have thinking all the faties may outlive us skinnys with the extra stored “food” they carry around!)

  19. orbit7er August 23, 2010 at 11:34 am #

    Interestingly enough my family just went to the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont off I-91 last week visiting our environmentalist friends who built their own house and have lived off the grid with their own solar energy for years.
    In some ways it is already “Made by Hand” up there with many people erecting their own houses, solar panels, wells etc.
    A few times the power went out as the new more powerful solar panels ironically overloaded the older charge controller and shorted out the system.
    There were earnest chats with neighbors on how best to deal with these issues of sustainability.
    There is hydro power in St Johnsbury. My friend, a science teacher, wanted to install mini-hydro as a school project but Vermont State complained that a mini-hydro project would have interrupted trout spawning even though there is a 15 foot drop there anyway.
    As usual, just as with the rest of the country, there is a railroad which parallels I-91 and still runs freight trains 6 days a week. From the excellent Vermont Railway Website ( http://www.railvermont.org/ ) there is historical data that the same train line ran 16 trains per day between towns. But instead of using this existing rail, besides the Orange cones noticed by JHK, there was actual hugely expensive road construction going on which must have cost a pretty penny to support very light Interstate traffic. Unfortunately as much as my friends are avid Environmentalists, like so many others, they are blinded by the huge environmental costs of their cars, truck and tractor. They kept arguing the rightwing auto-addicted canard that there is too little population to support regular passenger, local freight train service even though a much lower population supported 16 trains a day decades earlier.
    Also when you dig beneath the surface you find out that the other major achilles heel for sustainability is the surfeit of tractors, bulldozers, and heavy construction vehicles reliant on oil to maintain the dirt roads, load farm supplies and currently digging their local pond.
    How will they sustain themselves without these huge machines?

  20. okie August 23, 2010 at 11:38 am #

    on the other hand, i drove back roads from urban Oklahoma, home of the behemoth and the behemoth vehicle not to mention ubiquitous non-point rage, to an unpopular wilderness area in Colorado. The other drivers were generally much more polite than here in the city, many waved, to my delight, and there was very little road work – all managed with admirable organization. The wilderness area was devoid of humans excepting a very few richies who rented horses because they were too lazy to walk a few miles and gain a little elevation. Largely, it was a vacation of vast, silent spaces, that smelled of living things, where the tiniest bird-call would echo off the peaks, where swift moving cloud shadows could repaint the world in an instant. I was in heaven, and it has made being back in the city, trapped all day in a windowless building doing nothing the world will benefit from or remember, seem like nothing short of a decent into hell. I am planning my “escape” with vigor now – life is too short to wait for a long emergency…

  21. sirwinstonthriller August 23, 2010 at 11:38 am #

    The orange cones could also be left by Homeland Security. There is a stretch of I91 that has controlled stops to show your passport, enhanced DL, or other papers to prove you have a right to be in the USA.

  22. katbalou2 August 23, 2010 at 11:42 am #

    Interesting to compare Dorothea Lange’s Depression-era photography subjects with the obese populace of today. Her photographs emphasize the terrible thinness that accompanies real hunger and hard work as opposed to the poor nutrition of the slovenly McDonald’s-fed diabetic “gimme-gimme” culture that currently comprises so much of the U.S.
    The other notable difference in Lange’s photographic subjects is the strength of character and determination that so many of them seem to possess. It serves to remind me that only the strong will survive.

  23. DJL August 23, 2010 at 11:45 am #

    JHK, is there some place to request of you to get a region JHK-inspected and a report subsequently filed in your Monday Morning, CLUSTERFUCK NATION commentary? I’d love to see what you’d have to say visiting Wisconsin and the U.P. of Michigan. How many paid speaking engagements/book signings need to be strung together to get you to take the bait? Not to bias your opinion, but I’d say the UP folk are definitely less large or sloth-like than the Cheese Heads (maybe thats the problem) of WI.
    To me the Lake Superior shore is in very good shape. It feels more like B.C. in Canada, more calming than any tourist trap I’ve visited. But there is much near here that those words can be rightfully applied to.
    Yes, we fly-over folks still have some very nice bits left, though most of it is very dependent on cheap oil for cars to bring in the visitors. Many old resort areas had railroad spurs in the old days, built for the logging that cleared most of the woods, with extra help from some rather large forest fires.
    Right now the rural/north parts of WI aren’t happy with upgrading railroads in the much denser southern WI. The upcoming oil squeeze might well change some minds. Visitors are the main source of jobs in the tourist catering regions from entertainment and building 2nd homes.
    People I know, in the sixties actually took trains to tiny stations (just a short stop). Resorts would ferry you to your destination free for clients and a small fee to others. All this to Rendezvous at the family vacation spot on a small lake, this one being right at the source of the Wisconsin river from high volume springs-now that’s a good water resource to keep track of!
    The pattern is similar in many ways to the upstate resorts of your State, with a small infinity of lakes in WI, exchnged for the higher mountains of NY. The difference lies in the greater, faster development in NY and New England and the resulting quicker progress towards ultimately unhappy results. I can’t grok what the effect of having that shit storm of infinite money close by in NY City has had. Equally I can’t imagine the bad consequences of continuing the current hot and humid summers, like this summer in Madison. Might as well be in Arkansas! Ok, its not quite that bad. All I can say, we better have a nice Fall and a mild Winer as recompense.
    Suggestion for a new Howe & Strauss’s logo-
    “A Saeculum or Two is a terrible thing to waste!”
    Because if we go back to post Civil War Times, that’s what we’d be resigning ourselves to. Like a mini-medivial period, at best.
    Daniel James Luedtke, DJL Chart Dude (H&S Info Plotted Large)

  24. Smokyjoe August 23, 2010 at 11:48 am #

    Jim, you should have gone anywhere else for a summer getaway. Why rub yourself raw with what is doomed anyhow?
    I’ll never go to Maine again “in season.” But just imagine how quickly it will all crumble in the Long Emergency. Even Pripyat, the town near Chernobyl, has been reclaimed by forest. Here’s a peek:
    Looks like the future of ticky-tack tourism (and much of US suburbia) to me.

  25. Unconventional Ideas August 23, 2010 at 11:53 am #

    I think it’s past the point of the “wake up call.”
    Now all that is left is to try to make the local community around you better, and more resilient; make your family, or tribe more human, more supportive.
    That’s all.
    And that’s a lot actually.

  26. Steve M. August 23, 2010 at 11:55 am #

    The mayor of East Orange, New Jersey jokingly suggested that the below-grade Interstate 280 that tears through his city like a festering wound be flooded permanently so that East Orange can qualify for waterfront development grants. And can we flood the Cross Bronx Expressway too? Detroit’s Fisher Freeway? Get rid of the Eisenhower Expressway (I-290) in Chicago, widen the rapid transit line that goes down the middle, and restore Congress Street – but rename it, since everyone hates Congress these days! Flood all the depressed urban highways that depress property values and leave locals depressed! Flood the Vine Street Expressway in Philadelphia, turn it into a canal, mkae Vine Street look like Amsterdam! Flood I-280, New Jersey has to restore restore the old Morris Canal, we need it for better transportation! Turn other depressed highways into subway lines – cut and cover! Or just fill them in, we can use the plastic signs and cinder blcoks from the big box stores for fill, and make boulevards out of the rights of way! Tear everything up, start from scratch! Stimulus, baby!

  27. Paul Kemp August 23, 2010 at 11:58 am #

    Well, Jim, sounds like your sarcasm gland got a good rest on your vacation! Now, you are ready to spew well-deserved vitriol on all the deserving wretched scenery of the dying American empire. So welcome back!
    (Forty years ago, New Hampshire and southern Maine were my stomping grounds, but it sounds like things have gone terminal!)
    I personally enjoyed the parts about the lumbering behemoths, which we should all take care not to become.
    If anyone is ready for a diet that will save them from that fate, while saving the planet a tad, consult http://www.healthyplanetdiet.com for the longstanding remedy to obesity (and many of the other ills that await our society).

  28. welles August 23, 2010 at 12:05 pm #

    …meanwhile in Brazil, the people are incredibly fit & svelte & radiant. And the economy’s just zinging along, they can’t find enough workers to fill available vacancies.
    Checking the tags on clothing in major stores, you’ll notice that at least 50% of items say ‘Made in Brazil’. Including electronics!
    And going into debt a la the US is not even on the moral radar, it just ain’t done. My Brazilian girlfriend refuses to activate the one emergency credit card she has — doesn’t want to pay the annual fee. All cash baby, and it works fine.
    But wait, my father says America’s the greatest country on the planet. The Greatest Matrix, maybe.

  29. thomas99 August 23, 2010 at 12:15 pm #

    But Jimbo, did you have a nice vacation?

  30. Steve M. August 23, 2010 at 12:15 pm #

    Sorry I got off-topic with my previous post, I thought I was going somewhere with it. Anyway. . . .
    My parents spent their honeymoon in Maine in October 1964, and the pictures my mother took showed all these beautiful fall landscapes around Bar Harbor that sound nothing like what Jim saw. I went to Bar Harbor in 1998 – took the back roads from New Hampshire, didn’t see much sprawl. I guess I was lucky. I went to Connecticut last week for a Volkswagen show, and it’s still exhilarating to go up Route 8 western Connecticut, with the mountainous forested landscape it goes through, but the dinginess of Waterbury and the frightening ramps at the Route 8/I-84 junction get me down. A good deal of Connecticut is looking more and more like New Jersey; the only difference is that you can pump your own gas. Near Bristol is the New England Railroad Museum, which honors a way of transport that doesn’t exist any more except on a limited basis. Why travel? We once fifty states with separate and distinctive identities and unique cities and towns, now they all look like anonymous sprawlscapes. Even right-wing commentators who tour to promote their books can be forgiven for not knowing what city – oh, wait, these are white conservatives, they have book signings in big-box suburban stores – what metropolitan region they’re in. Until you realize they endorse this living pattern. I stopped traveling to so many American cities because you’ve seen one aquarium, science museum, Macy’s store, Marriott hotel, or ethnic history museum, you’ve seen them all.

  31. Laura Louzader August 23, 2010 at 12:15 pm #

    Steve, these are some of the most constructive ideas I’ve seen and I’m all for them.
    But you forgot the Kennedy expressway, with the Blue Line Ohare Train- turn THAT into a rail corridor.
    And get rid of Outer Lake Shore Drive- tear it out or run another express commuter train to supplement the overcrowded, creaking Red Line.
    Rebuild every interurban rail right-of-way between Chicago and the other midwestern cities instead of letting them become bike paths. That’s what the interstates will be for- there’ll be A LOT OF ROOM for bikes on the interstates in another decade or so.

  32. ozone August 23, 2010 at 12:18 pm #

    I have to say that some of the language and imagery had me laughing out loud. Your black, Russian-styled humor is most welcome, and much needed in anxious times. Hey, ya gots to laugh to keep from cryin’, eh?
    Thanks so much.

  33. CynicalOne August 23, 2010 at 12:29 pm #

    Come to Oklahoma.

  34. CynicalOne August 23, 2010 at 12:33 pm #

    And my DH wonders why I have no enthusiasm for going on “vacation”!
    HOME is a relaxing paradise compared to being out there on the road with all the rage-filled maniacs.
    No thanks.

  35. mika. August 23, 2010 at 12:39 pm #

    Why do you stay? It’s not a country worth living in. It’s not. It will only get worse. Life is short. Why waste it brooding on the brainless clowns and willing slaves of the Rockefeller/Morgan clans?

  36. Jim in DC August 23, 2010 at 12:39 pm #

    I think I’m done here. Previous commenter got it right about Jim spewing vitriol. Hateful people see a world of hate. Honest people see a world of people who can be trusted. Kunstler sees nothing but decay and negative. I think that says more about him than anything else. What is his positive contribution to any of this?
    I drove across country recently and except for the ridiculous marvel that is Phoenix I saw a beautiful country. Sure things are different from 20 years ago (like the truck stop that was all but abandoned because truckers now have cellphones and don’t need large banks of pay phones) but not all of that is bad. There are still vast areas of the US that are still undeveloped. Yes there are overweight people and poverty and small towns with very little to do but it has always been that way.
    I don’t have a lot of answers but I am convinced that filling our psyche’s with this drivel is not helping anyone.
    By the way I thought the book excerpt from last week was total trash. He is so critical of tattoos and low class people but yet the fiction he produces is the lowest of low brow. That violent, bloody crap is exactly what I would expect the people that he criticizes to produce. If you want to read a good fiction book on collapse pick “Patriots: A Novel of Survival in the Coming Collapse” by James Wesley Rawles which actually teaches you something. It doesn’t paint a pleasant picture but doesn’t describe ninja beheadings either.

  37. Barter4Booze August 23, 2010 at 12:43 pm #

    Somewhere,I read that those orange highway cones are useful in the slaughter of chickens and other poultry. The idea is that you construct a slaughtering station out of wood that you have salvaged from the 21st century waste-stream.
    First, build a work-bench which has a large enough hole cut into it, to recieve the entire length of an inverted highway cone’s funnel to pass through. The base of the cone will prevent it from slipping through the hole in the work-bench.
    You will also need to cut the top of each cone off an inch or two below the narrow tip. This will allow the chicken’s head to protrude out the bottom — formerly the top — of the cone, over a 5 gallon bucket which will receive the chicken’s blood.
    Using a long, thin, hooked blade, similar to a box-cutter, the stern, yet compassionate farmer then inserts the bladed “up” through the gullet of the inverted chicken, where a deft ‘snick’ of the blade severs the chicken’s jugular, allowing the chicken to bleed-out into the bucket below.
    Apparently this apparatus works like a charm. Once placed upside down into the cone-of-death, the chickens, resigned to their fate, become docile, serene even — in a fowl sort of way.
    As we pop out chicken nuggets one after the other, it’s too bad that none of us holds an appropriate respect for the lowly bird that unknowingly sacrificed its own life so that we could be 120 pounds overweight.
    Shame on us.

  38. CynicalOne August 23, 2010 at 12:54 pm #

    It’s insanity “out there” and why I choose not to work outside the home.
    I can’t imagine a more dreadful way to spend my days. The monetary benefit is not worth it. I will gladly trade having more stuff for mostly stress-free days and more fulfilling pursuits. I think I’m healthier for it too.
    Good luck with your escape plans, fellow okie. Sounds like you’re on the right track.

  39. Kurt Eye August 23, 2010 at 12:54 pm #

    I guess you don’t drink much, Jim. Or maybe too much?
    Many states run state-owned liquor stores. Wikipedia says 18, in fact. They’ve done so since the repeal of Prohibition. That setup has a Puritan origin indeed, but it’s anything but “creeping socialism”. Those states wanted the revenue a monopoly on sales of liquor could provide, and they’ve been gathering it since 1933.
    The other states just tax alcohol heavily.
    New Hampshire doesn’t impose such taxes. Hence, the popularity of a booze shop along the coastal highway in New Hampshire – with 13 only miles of coast – shouldn’t be a surprise.
    Also, there’s no grand conspiracy to inebriate-to-death Irish-descended Bostonians. Please. You repeatedly assert that you’re “allergic to conspiracy theories”. But they sure are fun to write about, huh? Especially when peppered with an ethnic stereotype!

  40. Fissile August 23, 2010 at 1:10 pm #

    New Hampshire is not the only state with government run liquor stores. State owned liquor stores are the only kind that exist in Pennsylvania.
    As for the deteriorating bridges of Maine, Pennsylvania has a solution for that as well. As the beams and columns of Pennsylvania’s bridges return to their base elements, the Pennsylvania DOT “repairs” said bridges by lowering the weight limit. One of the columns cracks? A beam falls out? Take down the sign that reads, “Weight Limit 10 Tons”, and replace it with a sign that reads, “Weight limit 8 Tons”. I’m not joking. Look at the bright side, at least Pennsylvania’s prison road sign makers have something to do.

  41. turkle August 23, 2010 at 1:18 pm #

    I love the travelogue pieces. Epic. Hilarious, too.

  42. turkle August 23, 2010 at 1:20 pm #

    “The dining room was populated by a new race of humanoid behemoths, great lumbering brutes the size (and shape) of giant sloths, only dressed in the raiment of clowns, downing heaps of battered fried things, purportedly of-the-sea — except I honestly don’t see how there can be anything alive left to catch out there with the industrial-strength trawlers scraping the ocean floor as if they were Zamboni machines grooming the rink at the Boston Garden.”
    Nice sentence.

  43. turkle August 23, 2010 at 1:26 pm #

    Yeah, its all lollipops and butterflies out there, Jimbo. Keep on thinking everything is beautiful and great and that everyone can be trusted to do the right thing. I’m sure you’ll slouch along fine.
    The ocean is big. It can take a lot.
    The epic fat ass epidemic is a new thing. Have you see the size of the average cheeseburger from 1955?

  44. turkle August 23, 2010 at 1:28 pm #

    Um, dude, I believe Jimmy was being sarcastic/facetious/hyperbolic with the comment about the government conspiracy to inebriate the white man to death. You must be new here?

  45. onedog August 23, 2010 at 1:37 pm #

    Damn, I better keep my 40-year-old memories of New England intact and never visit again. I’m glad to hear that Acadia is as good as it ever was. It’s always amazing how you can get 200 yards from a road and avoid 98% of the humans.

  46. turkle August 23, 2010 at 1:38 pm #

    Hey, Pinko, where you live, buddy? Killing me with artisanal, hand-crafted suspense…

  47. brooklynite August 23, 2010 at 2:02 pm #

    Treehuggingliberalpinko — What is the name of your town? It sounds nice. Though I might rather die in BK than live anywhere else!

  48. Nickelthrower August 23, 2010 at 2:03 pm #

    I live in Ventura, California which is a beach community about an hour North of LA. This week, Spiegel magazine wrote about Ventura and our homeless problem and the vanishing middle class. They talked about what US journalists dare not talk about which is that 20% of our residents here are very near to joining the homeless. We were the first city in California to allow people to sleep in their cars within city limits.
    Ventura did not allow for a lot of development and we do not have a Walmart. Even though we do not allow the discount big box retailers, our mom and pop stores are taking a hammering. I would venture to guess that 1 in 5 businesses are now vacant with many more barely hanging on.
    Instead of managing this contraction, the city has decided to allow commercial development down by the beach that will include 300 new condos with a modest 21,000sqft of new retail.
    It really makes no sense to me given that the open space would be good for farming and that there is so much vacant real estate around here.
    Growth like this is criminal.

  49. cat9tail August 23, 2010 at 2:20 pm #

    I’m surprised not to see (unless I missed it in previous weeks) any mention of the August 3 NYTimes article, “Obesity Rates Keep Rising, Troubling Health Officials”, by Denise Grady. This article neatly settles the Wisconson/Iowa vs. New Hampshire/Maine dispute over who wins the fat prize by showing on an extremely informative and horrifying map that both these locales have over 25% obese population. However, 9 deep south states have everybody trumped with over 30% obesity. And the central point of the article is that as of 2009 the nation as a whole is over 25% obese. Also note that in 2000 there were no states with over 25% obese people.
    I am for the third time in a program struggling to take off the far too many extra pounds; it may be funny but it ain’t no joke.
    I’m a longtime reader of Jim’s column, and I always appreciate his travelogues, where the polemics are tempered by observation and his own presence in the narrative.

  50. jpfreemon August 23, 2010 at 2:22 pm #

    As our American culture reportedly augurs into the ground, my wife and I attended the 7th annual ‘Arts and All That Jazz’ festival in suburban Burnsville MN on Saturday. And a splendid day and evening in the park it was. Kids splashed without care in the fountains, moms and dads relaxed on the grass, all to fine music performed by groups from around the land. The annual, free to the public concert was sponsored by local businesses. (yes, there are real businesses still open for business)
    I have little doubt our Nation and its ever-evolving culture will continue to face tough economic times for several years. I also have little doubt we will muddle through.

  51. CynicalOne August 23, 2010 at 2:30 pm #

    Cell phones.
    Crap food everywhere.
    = obesity epidemic?
    I’m sure the list should be longer.

  52. Qshtik August 23, 2010 at 2:36 pm #

    And my DH wonders why
    Dimwitted Husband?
    Designated Hitter?

  53. Brian F August 23, 2010 at 2:50 pm #

    For those of you wondering just where it is that Treehuggingliberalpinko lives: (Don’t answer Mr. Treehuggingliberalpinko and perhaps JHK can make a contest out of it and give a prize to who guesses right.)
    Here is my guess: The answer is obvious. It is the only place without Walmarts, big box chains and a lively Main Street cut off to cars that still exists. He lives in Disneyland.
    I haven’t been to Disneyland in a long time but it’s good to hear they have farmers’ markets there now. You can get your amusements and do your shopping all at once! What will those imagineers think of next.

  54. bossier22 August 23, 2010 at 2:51 pm #

    wells, i can never understand how people can compare a country like brazil to the u.s. their economic wonders easily forget about the millions living in lawless cardboard and tin slums with no running water,sewer, or electricity. i could see comparison with canada, sweden, or new zealand. it does not matter how great china or brazil are doing, almost no one from here would want to move there. but plenty of people from brazil or china would like to move here. hmm…

  55. welles August 23, 2010 at 3:08 pm #

    haha, the US mediaMatrix sure has done a good job, along with US ‘education’, of misinforming you.
    i guess you crossed up the Americans living in cardboard boxes with the Brazilians that do…
    there are tens of THOUSANDS of Americans that live in this beautiful country.
    I live in a nice 500sq ft apartment, total mortagage, electricity, gas cooking comes to $200/month. Food is dirt cheap & SUPER healthy, and you see it in the beautiful people here, they’re just stunning & you haven’t EVER seen beautiful people like they have here!
    I meet all the local yokels at the neighborhood cantina once/twice a week, NO ONE BOTHERS us if we want to smoke, little children wander in with their parents, PEOPLE HUG THEM W/O CALLING THE PEDOPHILE POLICE, we sip small beers & throw a couple of wonderful steaks on an impromptu oildrum bar-b-que & cut it up in small pieces and pass the plate to everyone, even if you don’t know them, god is the meat wonderful here.
    Keep your nazi fascist fake-aspartame American ‘freedom’ & enjoy it in your 3,500sq ft house all alone while you count how many ipads you have & Twitter to other empty obese Americans the latest news on what you’re chewing at the moment & lindsay lohan’s latest news.
    I is out of the insane asylum.

  56. okie August 23, 2010 at 3:09 pm #

    Thanks for the encouraging words CO 🙂 It is a challenge for any of us to live outside the Business As Usual scenario, and as a single parent wanting to stay close to my aging parents, perhaps more so – as solitary breadwinner and caretaker, what I want often takes a backseat to what we need, and rightly so. Any “escape” I might consider must serve and enhance the wellbeing of my family. I am often impressed (and depressed) with the economy’s ability to hold workers/consumers within its bounds – it takes real money in serious quantities to get out, especially to get a breadwinner out.
    I am glad you are not in the “workforce”, CO – congratulations and live it up for me too!

  57. Laura Louzader August 23, 2010 at 3:17 pm #

    “The Long Emergency can’t come soon enough.”
    This week’s diatribe was exceptionally witty, with many cute expressions, but this sentence really, really bothered me, and makes me again questions Kunstler’s morals and basic humanity.
    Jim Kunstler, do you really imagine that you will be spared the violence and chaos and shortages of absolutely everything that would attend a rapid unwinding of our current set-up?
    I mean, I share your disgust and dismay at our culture of waste, and the delusions and denial of most of our population, from our leadership on down.
    But just because some of us know more and are making adjustments and preparations, doesn’t mean we will benefit from the misery of everyone else, nor should we want to. The fables and fairy tales are full of warnings for those who dance on other people’s graves.
    I’m making what preparations I can, but let’s just be real: there is NO way to adequately prepare for the total unraveling of an economy and the collapse of all the systems we depend on for clean water, food, medicine & vaccines, insecticides to keep the vermin out of our houses, the fabrics in the clothes we wear, or about a million other benefits we all enjoy and are absolutely good things to have. We will all suffer very much if the LE plays out anything like we project, and 80% of us posting in here would be most unlikely to survive it. But we’ll never know, because we will have lost our ability to communicate by then.

  58. Laura Louzader August 23, 2010 at 3:19 pm #

    To the Grammar Police in here: forgive the typo in the 2nd paragraph.
    I meant to say “makes me question”.

  59. Vlad Krandz August 23, 2010 at 3:19 pm #

    The cones could also be useful to put on the heads of public officials convicted of corruption. They should be squashed firmly down over the forehead – no need to nail them. If too small, just make a cut in the plastic – easier than making the head smaller. Wallah, Coneheads!

  60. Vlad Krandz August 23, 2010 at 3:27 pm #

    Brazil is one of the poorest and most violent countries in the Western Hemisphere. Surely you know this. The Southern Highlands, populated by Mediteranean Whites, is supposed to be nice though. As for the rest – a Black and Mestizo Hell.

  61. welles August 23, 2010 at 3:39 pm #

    Yes Vladdy you’re right, the European immigrants all went down South & it is those areas that have wonderful infrastructure, agriculture, much much less violence & respect for the law. Plus the racial mix is phenomenally beautiful.
    Just walked across the street & ordered an orange juice in a new cafe. Girl proceeded to squeeze 5-6 fresh oranges on the spot. Cost $1.67. I’m still in shock remembering the first time I ordered juice here and it was actually real & made on the spot.
    Man, I coulda had a sugar-laced ‘Fresh Squeezed Florida Orange Juice’ for $3, to wash down all the Ho-Ho’s and Little Debbie cakes. After giving myself a double-injection of insulin, of course, to combat self-induced diabetes. Jeeeeezus what a mess the Untied States is.

  62. Vlad Krandz August 23, 2010 at 3:41 pm #

    Mr Kunstler is a dyed in the wool Liberal most of the time to whom violence is abhorent unless done for Israel. But in his fiction, he lets his mind roam far and wide and comes upon greater Truths. We are entering into a Sword Age, a Wolf Age. Fighting men will again be honored and sought after by communities and women. This was made quite clear in his last novel as well. The millionaire hippy judge and landowner was not willing to do his duty because he knew he had no force to back him up. It was only with the arrival and Job and his Ex-Marines that he felt able to do his job – after they had shown their prowess.
    “Violence doesn’t solve anything” – the mantra of liberal fools. What a joke. Just the opposite: nothing can be solved without violence or the implicit threat of it. It enables society to function. We must be very decadent to have forgotten this fundamental truth. In fact, the State takes cares of it, just like it takes care of so many things. Thus we become infantilized and lose our rights in due portion. Just like no one knows where food comes from, no one knows where authority comes from either. They’ll learn if and when the State loses the credibility of sole armed might – as it has in Mexico.

  63. jerry August 23, 2010 at 3:45 pm #

    All the signs of a nation in decline. A Wal-Mart nation under God.
    The planned demolition of a dried up manufacturing sector with an high multiplier effect has been sent over to the lowest bidders around the world.
    Thank you Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, lilBoy Bush, and now BO.
    This nation is falling and can’t get up.

  64. Vlad Krandz August 23, 2010 at 3:47 pm #

    Well, I’m a comin’. Give me exact coordinates – name the Town and Pub/Cafe and I’ll see you there. I want women who love men not like these North American Ice Queens!

  65. asia August 23, 2010 at 3:50 pm #

    SIR V,
    whats the name of the guy who bought the sierra club off? and funds the aclu? thx….
    advice to Laura…ignore Q and his schoolmarm ways

  66. Qshtik August 23, 2010 at 3:51 pm #

    Wallah, Coneheads!
    For the third time in a few months … it’s voila.
    voi·là? ?/vw??l?; Fr. vwa?la/ Show Spelled[vwah-lah; Fr. vwa-la] Show IPA
    (used to express success or satisfaction). Voilà, my new winter outfit!
    BTW, where the hell you been? You left me here all alone tryin to contain Asoka!

  67. asia August 23, 2010 at 3:53 pm #

    Read ‘ last hours of ancient sunlight ‘ for info on gun clubs…that hunt/ kill slum kids as sport.
    i know several whove gone as tourists to brazil..and said how wonderful it is there….guess they dont see most of the peeps there living in squalor.

  68. turkle August 23, 2010 at 3:56 pm #

    Hey, Vlad, maybe the ladies don’t like you because they don’t dig your whole creepy crypto-Nazi thing. You’re probably ugly, too. It’s you, not them.
    I’m just trying to help.

  69. turkle August 23, 2010 at 3:56 pm #

    “nothing can be solved without violence or the implicit threat of it”
    Spoken like a true little internet neo-Nazi.

  70. asia August 23, 2010 at 4:00 pm #

    did you see my note to you on sunday?

  71. turkle August 23, 2010 at 4:01 pm #

    From what I remember, the Brazilians celebrated winning to host the Olympic Games by shooting down a police helicopter.

  72. asia August 23, 2010 at 4:02 pm #

    Jeeeeezus what a mess the Untied States is.
    as is brazil..but at least B. has its oil import problem solved!
    also i hear the most racist nation around here is [ no surprise to those who have carefully studied communism ] CUBA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  73. asia August 23, 2010 at 4:03 pm #

    I saw a beautiful country….the cities i visit are on the verge of ruins!

  74. turkle August 23, 2010 at 4:06 pm #

    Where’s that can of whoop ass, Vlad? I thought you brought the violence, GTA-style. I’ll be so disappointed if I don’t see some blood soon.
    Or are you just another internet blowhard?

  75. asia August 23, 2010 at 4:06 pm #

    old soldier:
    “A multi-cultural nation is a pipedream ”
    try telling that to the times [ la/ny ] and the washington compost, huffington compost etc!

  76. steve b August 23, 2010 at 4:07 pm #

    I live near Chicago,Il. After building houses out from the city for about 50 miles and more the state is erecting noise barriers for mile along interstate 55.
    So they spend millions putting theses things up so people that don’t like the noise wont have to hear it.
    This was all good farmland until 10 years ago.
    If you don’t like the noise from a highway, why buy a house next to one?

  77. The Mook August 23, 2010 at 4:07 pm #

    I believe they are retarded people that Wendys and others hire to reduce payroll.

  78. The Mook August 23, 2010 at 4:11 pm #

    Jim, Those clam strips are either overcooked or simply “large”, or both. As with anything American, bigger is better. Plus you were in Quahog territory. Try Maryland sometime. There seafood is better and the absence of “Main-o-nites” is a plus.

  79. The Mook August 23, 2010 at 4:14 pm #

    Say one word about gays on this site and you are perceived as homophobic. Therefore I must ask if many of you are fataphobics?

  80. turkle August 23, 2010 at 4:15 pm #

    What are you even talking about, dingleberry? We have a multi-cultural nation here in the USA, and it mostly works fine. It isn’t a pipe dream. Nothing is perfect, m’k?
    The Nazis had a grand old time trying to make a uni-cultural nation, and you can see how well that worked out for them.
    Quit watching Fox News or any of the spittle-launching “conservative” commentators fed to you by cable news. You’ll be less worried about things that don’t matter.

  81. CynicalOne August 23, 2010 at 4:23 pm #

    Are you scolding me? lol
    DH > Dear Husband 🙂
    BRAZIL. Don’t they turn out a fair number of Victoria’s Secret models?

  82. welles August 23, 2010 at 4:24 pm #

    On the subject of Peakish Oil: most cars in Brazil run on 100% [m]ethanol or a mix, AND the country produces oodles of it, enough so they could export it if they wanted. Emits water and little if anything else, far as I understand. Smells like sweet shaving lotion when you’re behind a car burning it.
    Yep the mestizo/black bandits did shoot down a police copter with a 30cal machine gun a few months ago, made for great live TV.
    America was a great country til 30 years ago or so. Anyone who thinks ANY country ain’t got problems is a fool, BUT on the whole, this place is DAMN nice, affordable, healthy, and has a REAL economy, not the fart-based ‘economy’ in the country formerly known as The Greatest Show on Earth.
    Vlad, you’re welcome to join me down here in Curitiba, Google it for coords.

  83. ian807 August 23, 2010 at 4:26 pm #

    welles writes: …meanwhile in Brazil, the people are incredibly fit & svelte & radiant. And the economy’s just zinging along, they can’t find enough workers to fill available vacancies.
    As was the United States, when wages were low enough so that 90% of people were dirt poor, and we were destroying our forests and mining the land with no thought for tomorrow, and no consideration for the indigenous people who were already living there.
    Sound kind of …. familiar?
    By the way, you might look up how the Mayan culture destroyed itself by changing its climate by cutting down all available trees. Haiti, Easter Island and most Greek Islands are similarly cautionary tales.

  84. progressorconserve August 23, 2010 at 4:33 pm #

    Welcome back, JHK.
    If one of my employees came back from vacation sounding like you do in your post this week I would suggest Valium and another day off spent totally in bed.
    If my boss came back sounding like this I’d run like hell and then try to take the next few weeks off myself.
    But for you, JHK, I’d say your vacation agreed with you! New metaphors for our pleasure and new targets for your vitriol follow you home:
    “…dining room was populated by a new race of humanoid behemoths, great lumbering brutes the size (and shape) of giant sloths,…” INDEED!
    To add my own observations, seacoasts in populated areas have always suffered/benefited from “edge effect,” a term of population biology. But we in the Peak Oil addicted US take the edge effect to a whole new level.
    And if you really want to see some strange sights and behaviors, travel to Key West – an island at the end of THE highway, United States Highway ONE!
    And WHY do we Americans concentrate so much of our vacation efforts on the coast anyway. It may be we are simply a nation of uber-migrants, doomed by our own genetics. We travel to the coast and stare out, thinking – If only we could just *MIGRATE,* just one more time.
    But we’re stuck here in the States, and there’s no where else to go. It is past time to turn this Nation in a different direction.

  85. mattg August 23, 2010 at 4:36 pm #

    You drove around eating fast food and feeling smug because you weren’t enjoying yourself?
    I’m not glib enough to come up with something worthy of your hate page but come on- this is a pretty ridiculous “article”.
    Have a good summer, because it’s the very last time sun will shine on the Earth!!!!! 🙂

  86. Smokyjoe August 23, 2010 at 4:36 pm #

    Jim in DC says “Hateful people see a world of hate. Honest people see a world of people who can be trusted. Kunstler sees nothing but decay and negative.”
    What a load of hooey. JHK is a decent fellow and, yeah, he tends to see the negative but he’s hardly a hateful man.
    Lookit, Jimb in DC. Kunstler sees the zeitgeist in a decaying culture.
    I was in a great mood the other day, and I went into Taco Bell for one of my favorites (2 Bean burritos!). Everyone in there except the help was fat, there was a screaming kid with a giant teenage mommy (covered with tats).
    Instead of being bummed out, I thought “Man, Kunstler would love this scene and blog about it.”
    So I just laughed at it all: Americans are overfed clowns, to quote JHK, but I don’t hate them. I just feel sorry for them and what they’ve done to wreck our landscape with doomed suburban sprawl. Tens of millions, and maybe me too, will die from our poor diets and lack of exercise. Still, I’ll enjoy my occasional Taco Bell runs until it all falls apart.
    Unlike many on this list, I hope it does not. I’d rather have suburban hell than Mad Max or even Union Grove, NY.

  87. maineiac August 23, 2010 at 4:37 pm #

    Gee, if I didn’t agree with so much that you said Jim, I might be offended. The sad fact is that you’re absolutely right. Maine’s beautiful coastline has been horribly desecrated thanks to happy motoring, moronic businessmen, local rubes and wealthy Massholes. You’re lucky to spot a Maine license plate in a driveway anywhere along the coast.
    The residents in Central and Northern Maine are generally poor, dumb republicans who live off the government teat while hypocritically attacking those who live as they do.
    The one positive is that due to geographic isolation, the largest forest in the contiguous U.S., and a long coastline, it may not be such a bad place to be in TLE. If there is such a thing!

  88. ozone August 23, 2010 at 4:54 pm #

    Here’s the resultant article from Der Speigel:
    Thanks for the heads-up.

  89. ozone August 23, 2010 at 4:57 pm #

    That’s “Der Spiegel”…
    (I can never get that vowel-sound order correctly in the German. Bad habits? Nah, lack of habit altogether. ;o)

  90. Bustin J August 23, 2010 at 5:07 pm #

    Newfie says, “I was hoping for a few words of remembrance for Matt Simmons…”
    JHK: “Maine is where the oil fields of Texas crawled off to die…”
    Wall Street Journal (blog) – Michael Corkery – ?Aug 9, 2010?: “Matt Simmons, the maverick investment banker who championed the concept of peak oil, died of a heart attack in a hot tub in Maine.”
    Simmons should have been watching the oils in his diet, apparently, and not been marinating in human-being sized crock-pots. A Crack-pot in a crock-pot. (I couldn’t resist.)
    I did not think that Simmons was at all credible. Especially his later comments on the BP oil situation which revealed an ignorance of basic concepts in physical science.
    Peakers, doomers, cornucopians all, must remain at all times vigilant and skeptical against the propositions and persuasions of prognosticators, prophets, and fiction novelists.

  91. Bustin J August 23, 2010 at 5:14 pm #

    Smokeyjoe, Taco Bell is the gift of Mexican culture perfected by Americans.
    A dehydrated treat dispenser, a distributor of noxious hydrogenated oils, Corn syrup, and C and D-grade factory meat.
    Taco Bell is, of course, death food. It kills your brain, body, and soul.
    Its in the process of killing you but the process is so slow and gradual you won’t notice it.
    Taco Bell, McDonalds, Wendy’s, the other meat chains, all their derivative and ancillary businesses, are all about one thing: destroying the earth and taking your money.

  92. turkle August 23, 2010 at 5:17 pm #

    “destroying the earth and taking your money”
    Gratz, Bustin. You’ve discovered the heart of modern capitalism. You want guacamoles with that?

  93. angel eyes August 23, 2010 at 5:40 pm #

    Maine, with certain exceptions, has always been a shabby and sad place. Carolyn Chute, who 30 years back, was lauded (briefly) as a Yankee Faulkner portrayed that world in “The Beans of Egypt Maine” and “Letourneau’s used Auto Parts”.

  94. empirestatebuilding August 23, 2010 at 5:43 pm #

    I went the other direction last week. To Orlando Florida and Disney World. It occurred to me that but our bloated defense budget, the entire country could look like the Magic Kingdom.
    The park was less crowded than the last time I visited in August 2007. Less crowded generally and specifically with shabbily dressed families. I guess the refi crowd has run out of vacation money.
    It may be the calm before the storm or we may have several years of Magic left. I am on the fence on that call. It was good to get one more vacation in before I run out of money too.
    Aimlow Joe was here.

  95. empirestatebuilding August 23, 2010 at 5:48 pm #

    Wow! I had not heard about Simmon’s death. I love a good conspiracy, do you think it was accidental? He was quite vocal in detailing the hidden leak in the BP spill. Perhaps he was silenced.
    Aimlow Joe was here.

  96. benfranklin August 23, 2010 at 5:54 pm #

    I’d hazard to guess—but not wager—that
    TreeHuggingLiberalPinko is in the Berkshires, and is describing Gt. Barrington…

  97. Stevie Ray August 23, 2010 at 6:32 pm #

    Wow. James, you and I have been on the same page for awhile. I even met you at one of your speaking engagements in Portsmouth NH, where you mentioned how walkable/livable Portsmouth was. Your trip up the coast of new Hampshire, however, I don’t recognize. NH has a 12 mile long coastline, beginning in Seabrook, as mentioned, and ending in Portsmouth. Did you spend all your time in Hampton Beach? I could understand your experience, then. But North Hampton, Rye, New Castle, and Portsmouth, do not look like you describe. In fact, it is New Hampshire’s “the Hamptons”, full of millionares hiding in the “no tax” state. Is this “poetic license”? should I extrapolate this to all your other writings, when you visit places? Clam rolls are not for the cardiac-aware. Clam strips are clams without bellies (the best part, succulent, sweet, and a gift from God) And Maine! Are you kidding me? You have to go out of your way, admitedly by car, to find what you describe. There are so many water-fronts, unsallied by commercialism. Just look at the map. Yes, it is not what it was in 1950. But it ain’t Houston, either.
    All I’m saying, James, is we know how bad it is out there. You Don’t have to exagerate. Stevie Ray

  98. tstreet August 23, 2010 at 6:43 pm #

    I can appreciate the utter nausea you apparently experienced on your little trip, but then you knew this was going to happen, didn’t you. Around here, we simply avoid these trips, stick close to home, save gas, reduce our carbon output, and just appreciate as much as possible the local flora and fauna.
    I suggest you stay home in the future which would save you the bother and be helpful to the planet. And yet, you just keep making the same mistakes.
    And I thought New England was a beautiful place to visit, especially in the fall. Not true?

  99. Stevie Ray August 23, 2010 at 6:44 pm #

    Will echo Mainiac (and include New Hampshire and Vermont). New England is a good place to weather TLE. People still know how to do/make/fix things. People in the seacoast refer to them as “woodchucks”, pretty funny, but good people to know WTSHTF.

  100. angel eyes August 23, 2010 at 6:49 pm #

    I guess anyone with a screen name like Treehuggingliberalpinko deserves whatever he gets… We have a contingent where I live of smug pretentious middle aged hippie types who feel they’re uncommonly virtuous because they’ve made some superficial changes in lifestyle (instead of an Expedition and a 540-I in the driveway, they have a Prius and an Outback and they have a $4000 high efficiency fridge full of out-of-season veggies flown in from Chile), but who are still nuzzling up to the oil bonanza teat.
    However, there’s a particular brand of unusually self congratulatory Masshole which inhabits “Happy Valley” and such places in the west of Massachusetts in large numbers.
    If the income stream from telecommuting, royalties,dividends, consulting, etc. ever dries up, God help them poseurs….

  101. BeantownBill August 23, 2010 at 7:12 pm #

    Funny, I drove up the New Hampshire/Maine coast a few weeks ago on a day trip. The last time I did that was 1975 or so. The coast is a lot more developed and populous now. I seemed to remember empty, rocky coastlines before, but it was hard to see it the same now with a zillion people on the beach. And yeah, I saw a lot of stomach – big beer bellies on the guys and.. well, actually on the women, too. You haven’t lived until you’ve seen a 250 pound woman in a bikini.
    Writing this, I couldn’t help thinking of when I drove across country in 1971. I recall driving through Nebraska – God, it was awful, cornfield after cornfield after cornfield. Somehow I couldn’t get through the state by nightfall, so I found a little dirt road that dead-ended at the edge of a corn field with a picnic table. No lights around at all, pitch black, myriad insects thrumming like banjoes. I got up on the table, lay on my back and looked up at the sky. For the the 1st time I saw the Milky way and a zillion stars pouring across the sky. I was a city boy and on a good night I could maybe see a couple hundred stars – at the most. Here I saw thousands. I was in awe. I slept that night on the table. I woke up the next morning with a stiff back, but it was worth it. I think that night was one of the highlights of my life.

  102. flying picket August 23, 2010 at 7:14 pm #

    That wonderful, twisted sense of humour! I can never get enough of it.

  103. Laura Louzader August 23, 2010 at 7:33 pm #

    Those noise barriers on I-55 won’t work. There will still be tremendous freeway noise 24-7. My mother lives perhaps a third of a mile from an interstate in St. Louis, with many trees and houses and quiet suburban streets between her and the road, and the highway noise still keeps awake when I go to visit her- even though I’m used to sleeping next to a major street in Chicago.
    WHAT a waste of money. It should have been used to erect wind screens at Chicago’s hundreds of elevated el stops.

  104. flying picket August 23, 2010 at 7:36 pm #

    “Largely, it was a vacation of vast, silent spaces, that smelled of living things, where the tiniest bird-call would echo off the peaks, where swift moving cloud shadows could repaint the world in an instant.”
    Wow, Okie, the only gift for that kind of observation and metaphor I’ve ever come across before is in T S Eliot’s poems. “Smelling of living things” and “where the tiniest bird-call would echo off the peaks” is extraordinarily evocative of a natural paradise.
    And I’ve never read poetry voluntarily! Apart from the psalms.

  105. Bill Simpson August 23, 2010 at 7:53 pm #

    Laura, get double glass windows. Most exterior sound comes into buildings through the window glass because it is a single barrier to sound. The insulated windows also save a huge amount of energy in very cold or very hot climates. Not so much in L.A.

  106. asia August 23, 2010 at 8:13 pm #

    ‘the faties may outlive us skinnys ‘….maybe, maybe not.
    and JHK..why do you have such hellish vacations in new england? i recall yr writings from last years[?] out on the turnpike goin nowhere!

  107. asia August 23, 2010 at 8:16 pm #

    ‘I’m making what preparations I can’…such as?
    jim is old, maybe he thinks hell die soon and be spared much of the ‘ unraveling’!

  108. asia August 23, 2010 at 8:20 pm #

    ‘ it does not matter how great china or brazil are doing’
    exactly..leave the hype to the ny/la times about the china ‘ miracle’!

  109. Koshka August 23, 2010 at 8:21 pm #

    OK JHK, we know you hate what you see in America.
    So stop flying over it and driving through it and being disgusted.
    Save the oil.
    Your overblown rhetoric is every bit as obese as the citizens you slap around every week.
    In short….we get it.
    Go paint.

  110. asia August 23, 2010 at 8:22 pm #

    really liked the response that mentioned michigan!

  111. treebeardsuncle August 23, 2010 at 9:06 pm #

    I made this comment at the end of last week’s thread and it relates to that comment from the guy in Ventura.
    Hi, folks. Remember Kunstler’s talking about the former middle class. Read this article listed on latoc about how 20% of folks in Ventura are at risk of being homeless. Note, that they are not revolting. They are taking it lying down (in their cars). Note especially that 1% of the population owns 37% of the wealth and 80% owns 12% of the wealth. That means per person those in the top 1% own 240 times as much as those in the bottom 80%. So, yes, America is becoming a third world country with a few rich and many poor. The real middle class is those 19% who own 50% of the wealth. Those people vote and support the university system. If they, mostly professionals, small businessmen, and the managerial class are impoverished, then things will get more interesting. Note in particularly the mercantile class, the next 4% down from the top 1%, were the ones who fomented the American revolution.
    Here is a quote you all will like as it states in print the following key ideas often mentioned on this site. Americans form their view of reality from watching television and seeing movies. Second, they go to great efforts, including going deep into debt, to order their lives, particularly their houses and yards, in accordance with what they see on television.
    The sudden plunge into homelessness is a reality that’s difficult to understand, given the images of America we are accustomed to seeing in television series and films. They always depict homes with well-kept yards and two-car garages with basketball hoops attached to them. This America still exists, but it’s shrinking. And often those who are managing to keep the illusion alive can hardly afford to do so.”

  112. treebeardsuncle August 23, 2010 at 9:09 pm #

    Think someone above listed a site about Chernobyl. Well, the incident there and the cover-up is much like BP’s oil gusher which was covered up by the use of corexit. Note the same patterns of lying, boosterism, and cover-up.
    I posted this quote at the end of last week’s thread.
    Here is a good quote from a book I just read called Global Ecology that describes how Exxon and other oil companies behaved after the Exxon Valdez’s spill back in 1989. Note that I am using my real name as nothing is going to happen due to my doing so. You folks are so gutless and mean-spirited and isolated just like the folks at UC Santa Cruz who used icb back in 1994.
    Ecology Geoffrey Harris
    Damage to the Environment August 11, 2010
    Quote from Global Ecology in Human Perspective, by Charles H. Southwick, pages 340- 341
    Perhaps the most common goal of all in restoration ecology is to return a damaged
    habitat to something approaching its former condition. This is often called remediation
    or reclamation. In the Alaskan oil spill of 1989 when the tanker Exxon Valdez hit a
    submerged rock and spilled 11 million gallons of crude oil, the main goal was to clean up
    the mess so it would not permanently pollute Glacier Bay, which had rich populations of
    seabirds, otters, whales, and other wildlife. The oil slick quickly spread and killed an
    estimated 580,000 birds, over 5,000 otters, 30 seals, 22 whales, and unknown number of
    fish (Miller, 1992). Intial cleanup costs ran $2 billion, and additional cleanup and legal
    fees may have doubled this to $4 billion. Remediation efforts involved measures to
    remove as much oil as possible from water and beaches and to treat as many sick and
    handicapped animals as possible. Oil removal required heroic physical efforts as well as
    bioremediation in which special strains of bacteria capable of breaking down crude oil
    into less harmful byproducts were sprayed on beaches. Bioremediation offers some hope
    as a means of coping with other toxic chemical spills, but we have a long way to go to
    make these methods completely effective. It is almost always less expensive and much
    less damaging to prevent environmental damage in the first place than to restore habitats
    once serious damage has occurred. The Exxon Valdez oil spill could have been avoided
    entirely by a more alert crew keeping the vessel on course or by building the ship with a
    double hull. The latter would have cost the Exxon Corporation $22.5 million, but it
    would have saved Exxon over $2 billion in cleanup costs. The Secretary of the Interior
    at the time, Rogers Morton, told the American people that oil tankers using Alaskan
    waters would be required to have double hulls, but this requirement was dropped under
    pressure from the oil companies (Miller, 1992).
    Note that Exxon had to spend 100 times as much on clean-up as they would have had
    to spend on a double-hulled vessel. Also note that even after the spill, the oil companies
    still refused to take effective preventative measures. Furthermore, the reponse to BP’s
    spill in the gulf was a cover-up not a restorative effort. The corexit used to sink the oil
    so it would not be visible from the surface was and is very toxic, so much so that it was
    banned by the British government from being used in Britain.

  113. latchkeykid August 23, 2010 at 9:20 pm #

    Who are the assholes that holler “first” when they arrive? Just asking. It’s very annoying and not because I ain’t first.

  114. latchkeykid August 23, 2010 at 9:26 pm #


  115. wyndeely August 23, 2010 at 9:27 pm #

    Indeed. Maine is a horrible place to visit, and anyone who’s considering it should think twice – especially if the destination is anywhere along the coast.
    I hear New York – upstate New York – is nice. Go there.

  116. San Jose Mom 51 August 23, 2010 at 9:42 pm #

    Calling “first” is a tradition on this blog. Someday maybe I will first.

  117. Qshtik August 23, 2010 at 9:52 pm #

    so many water-fronts, unsallied by commercialism
    First one to find the error gets 2 free clam rolls.

  118. Qshtik August 23, 2010 at 10:36 pm #

    did you see my note to you on sunday?
    Do you mean this one?
    f@@@ the ny times…
    and ‘ extremeists ‘?????
    Note: I corrected my misspelling before you spotted it (3 minutes after I made it).
    And regarding the NYT, your contempt for it, and the LA Times, has been duly noted.

  119. Vlad Krandz August 23, 2010 at 10:46 pm #

    You know Nothing about Anything. Ever see those guys in blue with guns walking around? They keep order. Society would be hell without their threat and the threat of prison, you doofus, Rico wannabe.
    Revolution becomes possible when the State no longer has a creditable monopoly of force. This has happened in Mexico – another reason to build the wall.

  120. CynicalOne August 23, 2010 at 10:48 pm #

    I’ll play.

  121. CynicalOne August 23, 2010 at 10:54 pm #

    Congrats! on being “First!”
    Joe must be on vacation.

  122. Vlad Krandz August 23, 2010 at 11:05 pm #

    I knew that! Somewhere, but I couldn’t access it.
    I read a bit last week and Asoka did seem especially pretentious. I was too tired to write though. I’ve sold my house and am throwing away everything. I’m buying a MH in an MHP near Couer d’Alene. I’m going to support myself playing Black Jack at the Indian Casino. It’s time to reappropriate some of their ill gotten gains back to the White Man – starting with me. Black Jack is the one game where an informed player can beat the house. And even more can be won if one learns to “count cards”. If that doesn’t work, I’ll clean toilets like I do here at Cluster Fuck. Oh the Cess Pools of Liberalism! And ye generation of maggots who feed upon the offal! Cleaning up Liberal America is a Labor of Hercules, but we must try. Else the dark tide will overwhelm us.
    And now, thanks to Welles, if all this fails, I know where to go. It’s truly amazing that Western Civilization might survive in South America even after it is snuffed out up here. Evidently the White Men down there understand that they must never surrender the reigns of power to any other group. We used to understand that, but we got too greedy for markets, cheap labor, and the dream of One World. It’s all a Nightmare, pure hubris. The Tower built unto the Heavens is going to fall. Don’t be under it when it does.

  123. Qshtik August 23, 2010 at 11:11 pm #

    To tell the truth Cyn I didn’t even think about waterfronts but you’re right, no hyphen needed. So, I guess I owe you 4 clam rolls … 2 per error.

  124. Dalriada August 23, 2010 at 11:12 pm #

    Hi Jim,
    Thanks a bunch for doing your best to drive people away from ME, NH & VT. We really appreciate it as we’ve been very concerned about the waves of refugees that are likely to be migrating north soon from those stinking armpits you call cities. Has it occurred to you that those rather portly sunworshippers that you described seeing were actually tourists visiting from New York, Rhode Island and Connecticut? Most of the citizens I know from the Tri-state region are home in the summer cutting and splitting wood the old fashioned way for winter, haying, tending their livestock, hauling in nets or traps or are weeding their gardens. We have to go up on the roof regularly to dust off all that midwest and New York pollution off of our solar panels and evacuated tubes. We haven’t much time for the beach or to consume those cheap imported Gulf coast snails we pass off as fried clams- (we keep the good stuff for the locals). Though I probably shouldn’t spill the beans, those bridges are intentionally left derilect in the event that we need to demolish them to protect the borders from a post collapse whining, crybaby, yuppie invasion of murkin zombies from the south. We don’t have sufficient resources to support such a functionally skilless, diseased, and useless horde as that found in southern New England. They’ve defied Darwinian selection for so long now that most won’t last 2 months after the major collapse occurs. We’re better off up here having for so long inbred with our close cousins of mostly Irish, Scottish, Scots-Irish, English and French stock give us a good solid celtic bloodline that has for millenia proven capable of weathering and resisting countless invasions of supposedly more cultured and sophisticated peoples of softer, civilized bloodlines. We’re the last of the caucasian barbarians after all, still fond of brawling, drink and the body art favored by our ancestors. Why would you recommend that we waste expensive C5 dropping newly reconstructed bridges that we’d be taxed on when a couple of stout draft horses and some block and tackle can easily secure the border from invasion? You’ll note we keep a couple of the nation’s last best shipyards and a submarine base locally to defend our coastline from refugees. It should also be noted that the three states you singled out (plus Massachusetts) have the highest percentage of Revolutionary war descendants of all of America. Bring on the post collapse revolution, we of the cold and unforgiving northern kingdoms are the children of tenacity and perserverence after all, unsoftened by prissy New York living standards and their attendant lipservice “self sufficiency”. Incidentally post collapse, we intend on merging with the Labrador Canadian provinces and keeping our wind, solar, tidal, hydroelectric and nuclear capabilities for ourselves. Also we won’t have any timber, diary products or grain crops to sell or trade since we’ll be busy rebuilding our naval and fishing fleets to secure and manage our substantial Gulf of Maine fishery and windfarms from southern depredations. Best of luck to you, but please don’t call us, we’ll call you…

  125. Laura Louzader August 23, 2010 at 11:18 pm #

    Vlad, it sounds like you will continue your toilet-cleaning career.
    Anybody who honestly thinks he can make a living playing blackjack is someone who is living in the bozo zone, which we at CFN have always suspected about you. There is one person in about 100,000 who can honestly make a living at games of chance, and the only one such man I personally ever met did it at private poker games, not at blackjack. And they don’t do it at casinos with their rigged games and floor watchers because everyone knows that the house is absolutely rigged against you. You have a big win, and they will get it all back from you, probably in the same session. They make most of their “ill gotten gains” off morons who think they can beat the house and make a living at crap like that.
    And he did NOTHING ELSE IN THE WORLD but play poker. He lived, ate, slept, and breathed poker. He did not devote even 10 minutes a day to posting on blogs and cared not at all about race or politics or anything else that did not pertain to poker.
    Have fun. They’re licking their chops there in anticipation of your arrival.

  126. Dalriada August 23, 2010 at 11:20 pm #

    PS: We’re all armed to the fricken teeth up here being well supplied at L.L. Beans, Cabelas and the Kittery Trading Post, and we skin our supper regularly, so to you weak southern types- don’t be gettin any ideas. Tasty moose, bear, white tail or NY attorney; they all taste the same to us. I’ll wager our women and children on average can shoot straighter then your cop or soldier. LOL

  127. Laura Louzader August 23, 2010 at 11:29 pm #

    My apartment here in Chicago has double-glazed windows and they really do a wonderful job of blocking noise from the major artery just around the corner.
    But I live 4 blocks from the el, far enough away not to be bothered by the horrible train noise. If you live right next to it in an older building like this, it sounds like it’s running through your living room, every 5 minutes, 24 hours a day. But new buildings with really good soundproofing make even the el train inaudible- one was built so close to the tracks it ought to have its own stop, and with the windows closed you do not hear the trains at all, the soundproofing is so excellent.

  128. CoolTexan August 23, 2010 at 11:31 pm #

    Shame on you, James Howard Kunstler. You’re way off track. The Witch of Hebron seems no different than any of the other junk that’s written in order to become a movie and cash out. There is nothing redeeming about it.
    You keep making fun of pitiful people. Were you brought up to be this way? Did you laugh at the “retarded” kids you met when you were in grade school? You’re still at it! You have to point out your superiority even when on vacation! Why do you use your mastery of the English language to focus so much hatred on those who enjoy Nascar, have tattoos, and (new to the list) fat people.
    You need another vacation. I want the old JHK back- the one who advanced thought and didn’t try so hard to be clever.

  129. Qshtik August 23, 2010 at 11:38 pm #

    I’m buying a MH in an MHP near Couer d’Alene.
    I’m guessing the above means “motor home in a motor home park?” I’m assuming you’re leaving it parked, not driving it anywhere.
    Where are you going to grow food and do target practice?
    I’d be real carefull about trying to make a living at blackjack. Card counting gets harder the more decks in the boot and more meaningless the higher from the bottom the cut card is inserted. Those casinos aren’t there as pushovers for rookies. I’ll bet they’re using 8 decks.

  130. Zev Paiss August 23, 2010 at 11:55 pm #

    I am curious how many of those commenting on this blog have read Jim’s newest book? I am almost done. Comments to follow.

  131. antimatter August 23, 2010 at 11:58 pm #

    Well, my days in the NE, including trips to the Finger Lakes and Martha’s Vineyard symbolized a mix of the agriculture and the old world fishing villages.

    Now, here in the South, I live next to a major research park,where,as it turns out, all that research has gone away, along with the manufacturing that was supposed to be disallowed by the research park’s charter. Sure, university faculty, tenured, make their solid, guaranteed 150K a year, but everyone else is part time, or if full time, with sinking benefits, threats of layoffs.

    In upstate New York during the good days, a company had a large area of park land, a golf course, a pool, and events for the kids. When that company opened a new facility in the South, although it allocated space for a similar facility,it never developed the land. This was in the 80’s. The writing was on the wall. When the NY plant manager told me in the mid 80’s that he was spending more time in meetings deciding whether to use plastic in the cafeteria than china and silverware, both he and I knew what was coming.

    Where we are now has been in the making for a long time, and finally, here we are. The banks have won, and so has ‘the world is flat’ crowd, championed by the New York Times Thomas Friedman.
    The iPads we line to to by are made by Chinese 20 somethings who jump off their factory buildings in despair.

    Soon, we will be jumping off buildings too, or begging for those special ‘kits’ to help us leave the life that our government has knowingly destroyed. A final trip to Vermont in Fall would be an ideal precursor, so we can see beauty, feel the air, see the colors, and ignore the debt collectors, Obama, Congress, and Fox News. One last time.

  132. gavin August 24, 2010 at 12:03 am #

    Mmm. fall or the sound of falling knives… the smart money is on the knives.
    And don’t be too hard on the heavy folks of the northeast. You should come to Texas. We know how to be obese far better than any yankees. Now if you’ll excuse me, it’s time for my insulin shot.

  133. CoolTexan August 24, 2010 at 12:22 am #

    I have only read last week’s truly crappy exerpt of the Witch of Hebron. “Your’e a handsome woman” gave me a good laugh. So glad I now know not to buy the book. I read The Long Emergency and bought 8 copies for friends. Totally worth every penny.

  134. Neil Kearns August 24, 2010 at 12:47 am #

    Like they say, Vinyl is final.

  135. Neil Kearns August 24, 2010 at 12:52 am #

    “Your’e a handsome woman” gave me a good laugh. So glad I now know not to buy the book.
    C’mon cooltex, maybe Jimbo’s setting us up for a dimension of intriguing depravity when later in the story he reveals the wife to be transgendered. This might allow all kinds of associations for our land baron. Surely you want to know how the sorghum mill turns out right?

  136. jillianjustjillian August 24, 2010 at 1:16 am #

    jeesh james…you can’t have fun anywhere…you just didn’t delve deep enough into maine to grasp its rural splendor void of strip mall culture. i chose to live tucked-away in the woods here in the pine tree state where i can make art, because i embrace ideology similar to yours. come back again and i’ll show you parts and peoples living in opulent poverty outside the the (split-level ranch in sub-division) box and cubicle jobby-jobs; where the definition of commerce still consists of the exchange of physically made goods and services and skills independent of the “almighty” dollar. many of us here already are living a world made by hand. signed, a non-corpulent, walmart-free, avid clusterfuck nation reader.

  137. treebeardsuncle August 24, 2010 at 1:23 am #

    Dalriada, you are speaking my language. Dal Riada means Riad’s part which was a part of the highlands of Scotland where Irish raiders from the province of Ulster — then known as Scotts– had begun to settle by the fourth century A.D. This chiefdom and surrounding settlements — along with influxes of Norse and combined with Pictish and Britton remnants and fortified by a few Norman leaders — developed into the highland clans of later history. The Celts who remain are physically strong but have long been known for fractiousness and short-sightedness. The American south is full of that restive, reactionary, and secessive lot. Incidentally my dad’s ancestors on the Harris side were Green Mountain boys in Vermont and fought with Ethan Allen in the American Revolution. His mom’s side was Scotts-Irish, specifically the border Bells. Have a fifth great grandfather captain Robert Bell who was born in Ulster in 1722 and emigrated to Caswell County North Carolina around 1760 or so. North Carolina is the most Scottish state I think and the Scotts and Scotts-Irish are especially thick in the southern Appalachians.

  138. turkle August 24, 2010 at 2:55 am #

    Vlad should go find some black or brown people and tell them about his racial theories. Then he can really find out how people solve their problems with violence.
    And he hates the “liberals”, too, who are ruining America, or some such cable television bullshit. How original. Haven’t heard that one before.
    I dunno, Vlad, maybe if you dropped the whole neo-Nazi thing, stopped hating on people because of their skin color, spent less time on this blog, and maybe paid more attention to personal hygiene, you’d get more attention from the “North American Ice Queens.” Maybe they treat you poorly because you are as big of a loser in real life as you are on the internet.
    Again, just trying to help. I’m thinking you’re “Unskilled and Unaware.”

  139. Eleuthero August 24, 2010 at 4:00 am #

    Even if one is not a political activist,
    there are always choices we can make as
    consumers. No one forces us to shop at
    big box stores. No one forces us to eat
    Happy Meals. No one forces us to watch
    network TV and endure 22 minutes of
    commercials every hour.
    Every single day, as social beings and
    as consumers, we have choices we can make
    that help both our minds and bodies and,
    often coincidentally, the minds and bodies
    of other people (like our children).
    Indeed, the creeping sadness in Jim’s recent
    missives mirrors my sense that Americans are
    “abdicating the throne” on many of these
    choices by pretending they don’t matter.
    Our collective choices to sit on our asses
    and look at screens six hours a day and
    eat lard-covered grease for a diet make
    our MINDS lard-assed as well.

  140. LewisLucanBooks August 24, 2010 at 4:25 am #

    Haven’t had tv for years. But I shop the big box stores. Why?
    I opened a bookstore in this little berg, last December. I threw around a lot of money, locally, getting it open. I’m seeing little or no local support. Most of my sales come from people passing through or off the Net. Angry and resentful? Yup.
    So, now I shop the big box stores with a clear conscience. Did a CSA box this year. Probably won’t next year. Farmer and his family haven’t spent a dime in my store. I’m getting to be a very tit for tat kind of a guy.

  141. asoka August 24, 2010 at 4:28 am #

    antimatter said: “Sure, university faculty, tenured, make their solid, guaranteed 150K a year…”
    Very, very few faculty make $150,000 a year.
    $58,000 Assistant Professor
    $98,000 Full Professor
    Anybody making $150,000 a year is an outlier.
    SOURCE: National Faculty Salary Survey

  142. Tony W August 24, 2010 at 6:36 am #

    I learned of the dire state of our oceans quite recently. I love sea food but will eat it no longer. I’m surprised JHK does.

  143. Dostoyevsky August 24, 2010 at 7:07 am #

    Hey Vlad
    making a living at playing blackjack, pull the other one!! Confirmation of the ignorant redneck nazi that you are. At least you will feel at peace some of the time as Wiki states Couer d’Alene’s population is 95.80% White.
    Before you lose all your money and start giving blowjobs in the casino for cash make sure you pay for an SS tattoo or two at least you can admire your own tattoos while turning tricks, it beats trying to count the crabs in your master’s pubes. I hope your next door neighbours in the trailer park are Latinos with a love of loud Mexican music.
    That hell that you think all non nazi’s like yourself will go to when they die, is surely coming your way. Yeeeeehaaaaah

  144. welles August 24, 2010 at 7:46 am #

    Re my comment that Brazil’s economy is humming along with full employment (they can’t even find enough workers), ian807 says:
    As was the United States, when wages were low enough so that 90% of people were dirt poor, and we were destroying our forests and mining the land with no thought for tomorrow, and no consideration for the indigenous people who were already living there.
    Have you EVER lived in Brazil? If not then a kind STFU as you’re just spouting what you’ve been fed at the long end of your newspaper spoon.
    They have SUSTAINABLE sugar cane production to produce [m]ethanol instead of burning gasoline.
    They have MASSIVE replanting down here in forest areas, and everyone’s conscious of the need to preserve the rainforest.
    They have LOTS of efforts to preserve native tribes’ way of life.
    Sure they have illegal logging & whatnot. So does the US, where “90%” being “dirt poor” is becoming all the rage again now isn’t it?
    Meanwhile, 30 million Brazilians joined the middle class in the last few years. This on the back of MANUFACTURING electronics, clothing, agriculture, tourism, more economic freedom. 30 million Brazilians is 15% of the population, quite an achievement.
    They RIDE THE BUS em masse. They live in very small houses with NO HEAT (it does get cold here) and just FANS for cooling. Very energy efficient.
    Millions of them produce their own healthy food via chickens and small plots. Ian807, come down here for awhile & get re-educated, especially if you need a job & have some technical skills, I can get you hired tomorrow for $4-8k per month.

  145. Dostoyevsky August 24, 2010 at 7:57 am #

    You write pretty depressing stuff but no doubt the truth as you see it. Don’t give up on America’s ability to reinvent itself and throw off old discredited economic models and adopt new ones. Yes the change will be painful almost all change is. However America constantly renews and reinvents itself due to your society being so open and accepting of change. Most writers on this blog are in effect changing and adapting to the new realities anyway and doing it quite nicely. I don’t see a long slide so much as a long constant change, painful in some respects but with a highly likely positive outcome.
    My 5 cents worth observing from Australia.

  146. wardoc August 24, 2010 at 8:50 am #

    “…corporate wickedness knows no bottom.”
    Surely the above will be the ending theme for the Amerikan mis-adventure of the 20th and 21st centuries.

  147. mila59 August 24, 2010 at 9:23 am #

    Yay Dalriada!!! JHK obviously doesn’t know about all the beautiful rivers and swimming holes, cliff-jumping for the adventurous, hidden 200-year-old apple orchards, abundant and amazing berry patches, the quiet and resilient beauty of the “country of the pointed firs.” And, you know, it’s just as well. The more folks stay away from Maine, the more room for those of us who love it.

  148. welles August 24, 2010 at 10:27 am #

    btw, if anyone wants a nearly-free-to-free flight
    to Brazil, contact me at well8ess at hotmail dott comm.
    then you can see this wonderful place for yourself.

  149. ozone August 24, 2010 at 10:34 am #

    Ordered. Not yet delivered. Terse missive.

  150. ozone August 24, 2010 at 10:56 am #

    I’ve been known to be wrong (once, back in March of ’82, I believe), but I think JHK is focusing on, “what did we do/create with all that abundant energy and brainpower?”. Why, it’s the horror of a plasticine, corporate culture, by Heaven!
    I’m certain he’s aware of all the native beauty contained in the state o’ Maine and NH (after all, he does make a nice mention of Acadia), but that’s not his bailiwick, is it? Just sayin’…

  151. mila59 August 24, 2010 at 11:05 am #

    Hee hee. I like that (“back in ’82”). You’re right again, of course…but hatin’ on Maine gives people a bad impression of the place (those who have never been). There’s honky-tonk stuff all up and down the East Coast (can’t speak to the west; never been there) but there’s lots of beauty too. But of course, I do like to read JHK to get the critical eye, you’re right, right, right!!! 🙂

  152. mila59 August 24, 2010 at 11:12 am #

    Wardoc, if you read fiction, have you come across “Cloud Atlas” by David Mitchell (not to be confused with another novel of the same name)? Whoo hoo — does he totally lambaste the corporate world in a scary sci-fi scenario — the novel runs through time from 1850 to some uncertain future date (each time period linked through a character to the next) and there is a section that concerns “Corpocracy,” the ruling power structure of that imagined future. It’s such a send-up of our current trends, scary but very witty in its own way. I would recommend the book to sci-fi fans and also post-apocalyptic afficionados…but it’s not a “survivalist” book like “Patriots” (sorry, but ewwwwwww).

  153. messianicdruid August 24, 2010 at 11:32 am #


  154. welles August 24, 2010 at 12:10 pm #

    http://www.zerohedge.com reports:Existing Home Sales Plunge 27.2%, Record Drop, Trounce Expectations Of 13.4%, Lowest Number Since May 1995
    …meanwhile in Brazil, my friend’s apartment, bought for $10k four years ago, is now worth $28k.
    She’s gonna sell & buy a house. Yep, a house for $28k. With a yard, fruit trees, pepper bushes, chickens. I’m putting in solar panels — plenty of sun down here– so she’ll be free from the normal $18/mo electric bill.
    Fuck the FED-US banker debt slavery Matrix. Zero Debt’s the way to go.
    Long live King Cash & Real Money Gold.

  155. trippticket August 24, 2010 at 12:57 pm #

    There’s a green one,
    and a pink one,
    a blue one,
    and a yellow one!
    And they’re all made
    out of ticky tacky,
    and they all look
    just the same…
    Do they all go to university and drink their martinis dry, as well?
    Apparently the tacky salesman really enjoyed the 20th. For a second there I thought you were describing Flagler Beach, Florida!

  156. Rod August 24, 2010 at 12:59 pm #

    Just returned to California from New Mexico. It was a game of pothole pinball most of the journey.

  157. trippticket August 24, 2010 at 12:59 pm #

    Here here!
    God do I love life without credit cards, car payments, and mortgages. Sometimes I have to actually wait to buy something until I’ve saved up enough money.
    I know, weird huh?

  158. trippticket August 24, 2010 at 1:05 pm #

    Glad you posted that to lead me back into what I originally meant to say.
    I can tell you guys that our trip from Washington state to Georgia was pretty brutal. I-90 from Spokane to Albert Lea, Minnesota was third-world-ish in some areas. And aside from the richy richy stretch between Butte and Bozeman, Montana, and through St. Louis (wtf?), it was ALL bad until just outside of Nashville. Everybody in the southeast better start appreciating their highways a little bit more!;)
    On the orange cone note, we saw maybe 8? designated work zones, (designated with big fancy metal signs that is), that had zero going on within the project site. Apparently the stimulus money is mostly going to signmakers and headgames.

  159. trippticket August 24, 2010 at 1:07 pm #

    Finished reading Guns, Germs, and Steel last week. Anyone who hasn’t read it really ought to! What a ride!

  160. trippticket August 24, 2010 at 1:19 pm #

    We’re trying to get our house ready to sell (for a deep discount obviously), so we can buy a few acres in the mountains and find our way home. My wife and I always talk about how “at home” we feel in southern Appalachia, and we wonder if it isn’t home on kind of a cellular level. The Appalachians (as most of you probably know) are the same mountain range as the one that runs through Ireland and Scotland, separated only by eons of tectonic drift. My blood came from Ireland, and hers from Scotland (although her mouth is definitely French), so we’ve taken to thinking of those mountains as actually being home in a very deep sense.
    In the meantime we’re sowing pasture in the goat paddock, which now has both chicken tractors working through it, and eyeballing a propane burner and a huge kettle for defeathering holiday turkeys!

  161. Qshtik August 24, 2010 at 1:50 pm #

    We’re trying to get our house ready to sell (for a deep discount obviously)
    Are you speaking of the $3,000 house you bought maybe 6-9 months ago? You wrote about all the things you did and stuff you planted, etc to get up and running and now you want to start all over again?? Where do you get the energy?
    And when you say “sell for a deep discount” do you mean for less than the $3,000 you paid for it?

  162. trippticket August 24, 2010 at 1:57 pm #

    Yes on the 3k house, no on the less than that, I mean for less than the 30k we were hoping for! Maybe 20-ish. I only have 11k in it so far, and need another 5 or so to make it right.
    As for the energy to do it all again, have you ever been to Macon, GA??

  163. asia August 24, 2010 at 2:06 pm #

    Not I, but i read and reread TLE and may do so again.
    TT: ‘ Guns, Germs, and Steel ‘ JD is an entertaining writer but no scientist, see crits at amazon on his books.
    and in honor of Vlad while at the library i saw a [free] copy of EMMA GOLDMAN, so i took it home for a laugh. she was russia jew [ gee no surprise].

  164. welles August 24, 2010 at 2:08 pm #

    trippy, get a DNA cheek swab done to see what your/her ancestry really is. You might be very surprised.
    Here in Brazil, a few years back they set aside oh I don’t know some 20-30% of university admissions for blacks.
    Long story short, lots of whites started getting ‘black’ slots because their DNA showed they were indeed black.
    Anyway keep this between us cuz Vlad’s out there & he’s gonna pounce on this potato[e] lol.
    Dude, i’ve been carless since my license was suspended for owing more than $10k in state taxes (HAHAHAH phuque you you fatass state workers with your grandiose pension dreams, EAT IT, $23K and counting you’ll never get from me! i preferred to help my own family, bitchez)
    I like being carless, oh I still manage to drive when I need to, but have Z-E-R-O of the costs associated. Plus biking’s put me in great shape.
    My girlfriend’s from a part of Brazil near Colombia & Paraguay. When you’re sick, they pick herbs for you growing on the side of the house.
    They also grow lots of hot pepper, catch wonderful fish, some with no bones. Sometimes it gets hot as hell & people catch their 40 winks under shady trees in a chaise lounge, and it’s common (but still shocking for me) to have an 80-year old zoom past you on a bike. Just wonderful.
    Little groups of family members, 3-6 strong, will simply arrive unannounced at your house, walk in and a Visit is On! Everyone sits down with small glasses of beer, or maybe a shot of grain pinga, and laughs and jokes and such.
    Healthy! Had alligator a couple months back, cooked in a giant battered wok, fishlike & tasty.
    On the outside, things look shabby and poor at times, depending on where you are. But these outwards then recede, and you’re left with a life that consists of lots and lots of contact with lots and lots of people. You forget that the paint on the outside of the house is cracking, that the street looks dirty & there’s a brahma bull wandering down it.
    Instead, you pick a mango straight from the tree & eat it. Giant, half-gallon sized mangos! Stems as thick as a woman’s pinky.
    What most folks live out in the US is NOT Life, it’s a perverted, stimulant-fed farce that’s been carefully manufactured to keep people literally fat, literally dumb & literally indebted til kingdom come.
    Death to All Tyrants, Foreign & Domestic.

  165. asia August 24, 2010 at 2:13 pm #

    80 years ago it was farm community where farms or houses sold for 1000 to 20,000 $.
    now its homeless community. and burbs, and corporate farms.

  166. CynicalOne August 24, 2010 at 2:18 pm #

    “Zero Debt’s the way to go.”
    Yes indeed! One more check to write in about 2 weeks and, God willing, we will have Zero Debt.
    Needless to say, we can’t wait. I think it will be a little bit of Heaven on earth.
    We are now saving (gasp!) for the next vehicles we buy. I ask my Dear Husband: “Wouldn’t you like to experience, just once in your life, writing a check for a vehicle and walking out the door the owner?” He says he would. I know I would and I’m not willing to buy another unless we do it that way.
    I too wonder where you get the energy. (You must be some years younger than me;) The thought of ONE move exhausts me. I know it’s just because we have too much “stuff” so we’re working on that.
    The Appalachians sound wonderful. May you be there soon.

  167. asia August 24, 2010 at 2:26 pm #

    ‘What most folks live out in the US is NOT Life’
    whatever that goes on in the USA or elsewhere is based in desire, yours or someone elses!

  168. Tancred62 August 24, 2010 at 2:58 pm #

    “– except the right ones.”
    JHK in a nutshell.

  169. turkle August 24, 2010 at 3:21 pm #

    Nice post on Brazil, though I think you have the rose-colored glasses of the ex-patriot. Brazil has some terrible problems of its own. In one year, over 1000 children were killed in ONE of its major cities. That makes all US cities look like Candyland in comparison.
    Anyways, I agree with your points about the social scene there. What many Americans have traded for all their fun toys and media zombie machines is a sense of real social connection and belonging with those around them. By default, one must seek out and establish one’s own community here in the States. Most communities are pretty sterile places in terms of what they offer socially. Whereas, I get the impression in places like Brazil, people are more open and focused on social interaction where ever they are with whom ever is around. Here, we just want to make more money to buy the big house, the fancy car, etc. The neighbors? Eh, who cares. Don’t even know them.
    That’s why more Brazilians report being happy than Americans. Because materialism does not necessarily lead to happiness. It may lead to the opposite. Interacting with people and having a deep social network is far more important to individual well-being and happiness than owning a ginormous house or SUV.
    I also think that in poor countries, people must depend on each other to survive. So by necessity they establish social support networks. Since America is relatively rich and most people/families can fend for themselves (sometimes with government assistance), we don’t have this side effect.

  170. lpat August 24, 2010 at 3:21 pm #

    “The Long Emergency can’t come soon enough.”
    “…this sentence really, really bothered me, and makes me again questions Kunstler’s morals and basic humanity.”
    Laura, to say that Mr. K. is a curmudgeon is probably something of an understatement. Like many Americans he also has more than a little of the OT prophet in him. And other than that he’s just generally cranky and hard to get along with.
    He’s also try to face-pound as many as possible of us into waking up. The more of us who exercise some modicum of human intelligence on the problem of trying to brake this spacecraft of a society which is tumbling uncontrolled out of orbit the better chance we’ll have.
    We aren’t alone here. Read the long report on the Gulf disaster in CounterPunch (http://www.counterpunch.org/mcclintock08232010.html). It’s better that we destroy ourselves than that we destroy life on Mother Earth.
    Get wise. Get local. Do whatever it takes to take business and government back from the bastards in charge. Or die the hell off and good riddance.
    Too many poor bastards in the 3rd world and too much of nature pay the price in blood for those luxuries we enjoy.

  171. ghostlimb August 24, 2010 at 3:35 pm #

    The human globules in the movie WALL-E have been among us for some time. Infantile wards of their own state. Creatures of the weakest natural anomaly – monoculture.
    On the former pbs series, “Frontier House” modern families competed to live the life of 1870s settlers. No one was able to prepare enough to survive the winter, in arguably ideal conditions to do so. All of them, like Biggest Loser contestants were in good shape after weeks of competing.
    One thing about the human form, it strips fat off at super-nova speed if there’s real work & energy at hand. These large-o-saurs among us are narcoleptic toward life – expecting everyone else to pick up their tab, and until things change we’ll continue picking up their tab.

  172. welles August 24, 2010 at 3:52 pm #

    Yes Brazil varies enormously in matters of safety depending on where you are. Yep they got huge prollems here you betcha.
    Got ’em in the Unhinged States too, social, financial, medical. Here things are picking up, there’s improvement everywhere, in the US the whole shebangy is careening downhill out of control and there’s a palpable sense of dread and foreboding. And rightly so, the Great Rude Awakening has landed.
    I’ve seen both sides & I’ve picked my poison.

  173. Qshtik August 24, 2010 at 3:59 pm #

    it’s common (but still shocking for me) to have an 80-year old zoom past you on a bike. Just wonderful.
    Do you read/speak Portuguese? How do you know they’re 80? As they whiz, by do you shout (in Portuguese) “Hey dude, how old are you?” Or does the back of his/her T-shirt say “I’m 80 years old”?
    alligator … cooked in a giant battered wok
    Lemme get this straight, which was battered, the alligator or the wok?
    i’ve been carless since my license was suspended for owing … (HAHAHAH phuque you you fatass state workers with your grandiose pension dreams, EAT IT,) $23K and counting you’ll never get from me!
    WOW! You sound mighty proud about skipping out on your debts. How the heck does one run up $23K in state income tax anyway? Your employer didn’t withhold state tax? or were you self employed and just said phuckit? Did you move to Brazil or escape to Brazil?
    My wife has a cousin like that. Living an organized and sufficiently frugal life to pay his legitimate debts was never his thing. He just spent what he damned well pleased. Even his wedding album was top-of-the-line and he never paid the photographer a dime. When the creditors became too annoying he escaped from NJ to FL. He’s made several moves in FL too – always in the middle of the night with no forwarding address. He’s in his early 60s and his hair is dyed a sort of orange brown. His wife has a big set of implants and a couple of years ago one of his 18 year old twin son’s died of an overdose. In other words a typical escapee.
    I like being carless, oh I still manage to drive when I need to, but have Z-E-R-O of the costs associated.
    So, when necessary you borrow someone else’s car? They make the car payments, insurance, gas, maintenance etc and you ride free. It’s great to have friends like that. Reminds me of people who smoke but never buy cigarettes. They smoke “OPs”
    Brazil’s health care system: When you’re sick, they pick herbs for you growing on the side of the house.
    On the outside, things look shabby and poor … You forget that the paint on the outside of the house is cracking
    Sounds fantastic! Can’t wait to sell my place in Jersey.

  174. welles August 24, 2010 at 4:10 pm #

    Reread my original comment carefully for the answer to the taxes question. You left out the salient part in your retort.
    Yes I do speak Portuguese, plus 3 other languages from living in other countries, and have been a translator for 24 years.
    Regarding 80-year olds riding bikes, what, you’re so feeble-minded you can’t approximate someone’s age? Secondly, is guessing someone’s age somehow troubling to you? What if they’re 69? Does that invalidate the point of Old People being Healthy vs. US Old People being Decrepit? Pick a better fight buddy.
    Brazil’s healthcare system is picking herbs out back the house? Get a clue you fool, it merely highlights how people close to nature know natural remedies. You never ate a mint leaf? Do you know what herbs are?
    Stay in Jersey I’m sure Atlantic City needs your good graces & fake disability money.

  175. Qshtik August 24, 2010 at 4:28 pm #

    Do you know what herbs are?
    I certainly do. President Hoover was one.

  176. flying picket August 24, 2010 at 4:57 pm #

    Interesting article on Hitler’s ancestry in today’s Daily Mail (UK):

  177. lushlife August 24, 2010 at 5:36 pm #

    Can u tell me more about where you live in Brazil and how you got started there. I’ve always wanted to check it out. I find the music infectious and it would definitely be nice to meet women that actually liked men. Thanks.

  178. turkle August 24, 2010 at 6:00 pm #

    “it would definitely be nice to meet women that actually liked men”
    Um, maybe they just don’t like you?

  179. Tancred62 August 24, 2010 at 6:48 pm #

    Brasil is bigger than the Lower 48. And while there is some truth to all the commentary on that country here, it’s way to diverse and fractured geographically to be pigeon-holed.
    Air-conditioning and rampant consumerism are part and parcel for Sao Paulo’s big malls; albeit right next to favelas located across the dank highway. Brasil has one of the largest discrepencies between rich and poor in the world, and most people live in big cities (Sao Paulo = 25 mil at least).
    That said, my friend Solage had one of those little, wall-mounted hot water heaters in her shower…that was cool and made sense…actually, it was HOT and made sense, but washing my hands with cold water seemed weird. But she also had a dishwasher. WTF? My point is I don’t think the small cars, small water heaters, the riding of buses etc, are because of social values. The latter are so different depending on where you go. The Paulistas and Cariocas would not be able to survive without their condescention (usually playfull)of the other.
    Paulistas=work Cariocas=go to the beach
    They also devote entire magazines to the even-more-popular-than-here plastic surgery.
    Go to Salvador and see an ENTIRELY different culture. And lots of black people.
    The people that live in the favelas= WTF?
    But I will always love Brasil, and I am happy for their growing role in global politics. Order & Progress, as their flag says.
    And if everyone in

  180. Eleuthero August 24, 2010 at 6:58 pm #

    Dear Cool,
    I think JHK’s critique of ordinary Americans
    doesn’t go far enough!! Tattoos are a garish,
    vain, stupid way of expressing individuality.
    Yup, I said it. Before the 1980s, people used
    to express their individuality by learning a
    musical instrument, or a foreign language, or
    being the type of person who could “fix anything”,
    or … or … or.
    By the way, I’m not saying that Europe or any
    other place on earth now provides a counter-
    example of a more utopian place. However,
    sweeping with a broad brush, Americans are
    becoming dumber, more narcissistic, greedier,
    and, above all, disrespectful of smart people.
    I hear all the time how books and education
    are “useless” on the streets of Palo Alto.
    How ridiculous. I simply tell these cretins
    that EVERYTHING they value in life and strive
    to obtain (stereos, cars, Ipods, Iphones, etc.)
    are the products of minds that were EDUCATED.
    I think America is heading for fascism and I
    suspect that when it comes, 95% of the new
    goosesteppers will have tattoos, shaved heads,
    and piercings. I’m sick of the “I just got
    outta prison” look. It arouses my own animal
    spirits because I want to go up to half these
    guys and punch them right in the face.
    As for Nascar, well, do you really call that
    driving?? Formula One is driving. Watching
    guys use the same two or three stratagems for
    passing on an oval is a caricature of skill.
    Indeed, Nascar is a stupefaction of race driving
    and, therefore, is a metaphor for the general
    stupefaction of America.
    In other words, I think JHK is almost DELICATE
    with America in 2010.

  181. turkle August 24, 2010 at 7:06 pm #

    “I hear all the time how books and education
    are “useless” on the streets of Palo Alto.”
    Wow, that’s pretty ironic considering that practically the entire economy of the area is based on Stanford University.

  182. San Jose Mom 51 August 24, 2010 at 8:47 pm #

    I’m with you about tattoos and piercings. I’ve told both my kids that if they get a tattoo, then I’m not paying for college….so make my day. They know I’m serious.
    My daughter recently asked if she could have the cartilege pierced on her ear..”My friends are doing it.” I said, “Honey, when you’re paying your own rent, you can do it. But until then, forget about it.”
    I take an art class, and didn’t know this new, pregnant woman who showed up. She looked normal. We were talking about celebutards (I don’t remember who specifically) and I said, “Well, at least she doesn’t have any hideous skull tattoos.” Then the pregnant woman rolled up her sleeve and showed me a her big tattoo with bride and groom skulls. Whoops.
    But just let me say that this woman will never be elected PTA president. I wouldn’t even want her as a room mother for my kids.

  183. neckflames August 24, 2010 at 9:38 pm #

    Hello San Jose,
    You mentioned, last week I think, that you were brought up Mormon. I am wondering if you have much in the way of emergency food stored and if so, what exactly do you have. We’ve begun to create our own cache and we’re looking for more ideas and approaches, etc. We’re over the hill here in Santa Cruz.
    Time to get back in the water. The summer has finally warmed up.

  184. CynicalOne August 24, 2010 at 9:58 pm #

    “Lemme get this straight, which was battered, the alligator or the wok?”
    Maybe the wok was battered, as in much-used?

  185. San Jose Mom 51 August 24, 2010 at 11:25 pm #

    I do have some storage, but it’s modest compared to my mother’s food storage cache in Salt Lake City.
    I have enough to get my family thru a small crises, say an earthquake or something. I’ve got:
    huge bags of rice from Costco
    huge bags of pinto beans (25 lbs)
    2 gallons of olive oil
    100 gallons of water
    3 tanks of propane for the outdoor grill
    20 tanks of propane for the Coleman stove/lantern
    mass quantities of different sized batteries from Costco.
    Hidden stash of paper money
    Hidden silver coins
    My Presbyterian husband thinks I’m nuts (except he purchased the huge drums for water storage, and set them up in discretely in the back yard).
    But hey, I put up with his “new gadget” habit.

  186. Neil Kearns August 24, 2010 at 11:28 pm #

    The masses will take over nuclear power

  187. treebeardsuncle August 24, 2010 at 11:36 pm #

    sweeping with a broad brush, Americans are
    becoming dumber, more narcissistic, greedier,
    and, above all, disrespectful of smart people.
    Eleutherio, was it ever that much different? Haven’t people always been fairly stupid, narcissitic, greedy, and anti-intellectual by and large?

  188. Neil Kearns August 24, 2010 at 11:47 pm #

    This Bukowski poem seemed kind of current. funny line-

  189. Neil Kearns August 24, 2010 at 11:51 pm #

    Looks like my HTML skills are fading as the long emergency supplants my computer skills with dirt handling and water pipe mending. Here’s the link I though was kind of on topic here. Cut and past it in your browser ‘by hand’and save a few watts of internet server power out in California

  190. Kiwi Nick August 25, 2010 at 12:03 am #

    Hey, has anyone paid attention to the Australian Election? The result is a huge loss to the Obama-esq Labor party, and a big increase in support for the Greens (environmental group).
    Like America, there’s a “house” and a “senate”.
    House result at present is a hung parliament, with the two big parties negotiating with the Greens (1), independents (4), and a rogue National (1).
    Senate result is that the Greens will have 9 spots (starting June 2011, for some strange reason), which is the balance of power.
    Even though the wheels are still going strong, it seems people are fed up with pro-business two-party politics. And they want their environment back.
    Anybody interested to follow can start with the ABC Election (seats in doubt) page.

  191. Kiwi Nick August 25, 2010 at 12:17 am #

    Also, the State of Victoria (that contains Melbourne City in Australia) is due to have elections in November. If people keep voting Green, the arrogant Labor party will get tipped out, and we might finally see some action on forgotten public transport projects.
    In Melbourne (or other parts of Australia) if you want to see depravity, just head out to Berwick (a hideously ugly suburb of 10000 identical houses mortgaged to $500k each, 25000 fat residents wearing pants 3 sizes too small, an 8-lane freeway moving about 20km/h, and about 3 jobs). It’s not old and decaying, it’s new and decaying.

  192. mika. August 25, 2010 at 12:49 am #

    ..was it ever that much different? Haven’t people always been fairly stupid, narcissitic, greedy, and anti-intellectual by and large?
    Yes, it was different. During the age of enlightenment. But really, it’s not a matter of people’s “bad” character, but rather a matter of people’s awareness and education. The problem we’re facing is that we’re deliberately manipulated by an anti-enlightenment clique that is deeply entrenched with the ruling elite. These elites (Rockefeller and Morgan clan) see information and situational awareness as a competitive advantage, and they’re determined to keep and increase this gap in awareness and education.
    Btw, all the governments heads, all the bureaucracy heads, all the media propaganda heads, all the secret service heads, all the resource extractive corporate heads, all the banking heads, all the fed judges, they are ALL part of the Rockefeller and Morgan clans, and the families associated with these clans. People need to know and understand this. Once you understand this, you will begin to understand why we’re in Iraq, Afghanistan, Europe, Latin America, the Pacific, etc. The US is ran as a family business. What you see in the media and what they “teach” you in school is all a lie and an elaborate masquerade to hide that simple truth.

  193. neckflames August 25, 2010 at 1:18 am #

    Thanks for the information. So far we have bags of lentils and rice to make dal, one of our favorite dishes. I have a fiar amount of silver which might very well come in handy if things get ugly. If you ever get the list of what your mother has I’d love to see it. Thanks again.

  194. neckflames August 25, 2010 at 1:31 am #

    To Mr. Kunstler,
    Sounds like the vacation from hell… You were happiest when you got out of the car and left the pavement, weren’t you? Next time try putting a pack on your back or take a river trip. But then you won’t see any vinyl siding to complain about in your next blog. Happy Fall to you.

  195. Vlad Krandz August 25, 2010 at 1:58 am #

    Now you plan to weather the Long Emergency in Chicago, right? Even though every survival expert agrees that one must get out of the big cities? Yet I’m the bozo? No you are or should I say boza or bozette? By moving away from the big cities and into a White State, I will vastly increase my chances for a long and happy life. As for the Black Jack, that’s just a whim, something I might try. People who know me know how to interpret me correctly. You do not. Don’t fear for me, fear for yourself. You Liberaltarians and your urban gardens are the chaff that the wind blows away; the sand castles of proud humility boasting against the incoming tide.
    As for cleaning toilets, it was a literary device, a segue to change topics. But what if I had been serious, so what? Things like this or picking up garbarge and sweeping the streets, are useful tasks unlike being a hedge fund manager. It’s a new age, Laura. You have to let go of your feminine conventionality. Shit is very important as Tripp always reminds us. Without the smell of shit, you can’t have the smell of roses. Get used to it. We’re all going to have to sacrafice something. You may not be able to stay in your big house all by yourself. It’s neither ecologically viable nor will it be safe for you once the trouble starts.

  196. Vlad Krandz August 25, 2010 at 2:18 am #

    Congratulations, you are a one sick faggot – exactly what the modern education system strives to produce.
    For the unitiated: punks like this think that anyone who cares for the future of Western Civilization and the White Race is a “nazi”. Why do they not also rail against La Raza and the Black Caucaus – if they are so against racial pride? It’s because they are racists, racists against their own people. How sick is that? There are millions of them and they are a profound agent of our destruction. And in this they will rejoice until they get hungry and wonder why the lights aren’t working. Such is their depth of superficiality. If scum like this didn’t hate me, I wouldn’t be doing my job right.

  197. Vlad Krandz August 25, 2010 at 2:39 am #

    No, Manufactured Home Park. You get to own your own home but but have to rent the space it’s on. The rent covers the water and garbage removal. All new to me – I’ve never even been in one or a trailer park for that matter. I haven’t given up on my dream of the broken down porch, the rocker, and the shot gun, but I need a base from which to explore. Hopefully this will only be for a year or two. The rent makes it not such a great deal and it’s too close to alot of people to be a good survival retreat. I’m buying it sight unseen – something I would never do with a regular house. Getting it inspected though. I might have rented a room but I couldn’t find any situation like that where I’m going. People live different ways in different places. Plenty of rooms in Spokane thirty miles away.
    I’ll let you know how the Casino goes. Eight decks is six too many. Do you play in Atlantic City?
    The MH has a vinyl exterior, a Kunstlerian Nighmare.

  198. Eleuthero August 25, 2010 at 3:20 am #

    I was very heartened by your post SJ Mom.
    I don’t hear enough stories about Baby
    Boomers actually being, well, MENTORS
    and PARENTS to their kids. Well done!!
    In our, “it’s all good” society, we have
    been conditioned to believe that NOTHING
    “matters”. It’s “only” a tattoo. What
    harm could it do? It’s “only” a piercing.
    What harm could it do? The Happy Meals
    I eat “only” affect me so why should those
    of us who don’t eat ’em say anything?
    The fact is that a society and a civilization
    is a vast COLLECTION of the little, “harmless”
    decisions of individuals. If your “average”
    person becomes a fat, vain, garish, stupid
    oaf, well, you’re going to start getting
    oafs in positions of power.
    in education, in business, in politics, and
    even in the clergy. We are not a shadow of
    the “Greatest Generation”. However, your
    story is a candle that curses this darkness
    and I applaud you for it.
    Your post is an antidote to nonsense like
    Oprah making breast augmentation in teens
    seem sensible. Moms often give them to
    their teens as “presents”. Sigh.

  199. The Old Man August 25, 2010 at 4:50 am #

    I’m thinking the Vermont Cones is the latest Christo installation.

  200. welles August 25, 2010 at 7:53 am #

    Yes the huge wok was battered, i.e. beat up, dented, which lent it all the more character.
    Some denizens of this blog apparently had trouble understanding the difference between battered alligator & a battered wok. Now all is made right.
    Peace to you all.

  201. trouter August 25, 2010 at 8:13 am #

    I received J.K.’s new book The Witch of Hebron this week and unfortunately I must join with others who rate it “trashy.” What is the point of serving up a cast of miscreants like the ones in this novel? I don’t see how this helps anyone deal with the “long emergency.” Maybe that wasn’t the point. The story line in this most recent book is simply salacious and crude. There is little hope or decency in the events which transpire. I hope this doesn’t reflect Mr. Kunstler’s own view of his fellow humans. Perhaps the author should stick to the good work he did in The Long Emergency and forget the fiction. You were on the high road once, Mr. Kuntsler. Please get back on it.

  202. welles August 25, 2010 at 8:37 am #

    Can u tell me more about where you live in Brazil and how you got started there. I’ve always wanted to check it out. I find the music infectious and it would definitely be nice to meet women that actually liked men. Thanks.

    Hiya pardner,
    yes Brazil is infectious, in the best sense of the word, no one gives a shyte what color you are, you’re all part of the nation & BOY what a great, natural feeling it is for people to goodnaturedly refer to each other as Blackie, ‘Jappy’, or ‘Whitish’, based on skin color, and there’s NO malice, just smiles all around. You don’t shake hands here, you almost hug the other person. And always kiss a woman on the cheek. Effing sweet.
    OK folks there is racism in all countries/all peoples so don’t take the above as a comment tinged by rose-colored expatriated spectacles.
    I’m down in Curitiba, circa 150mi south of Sao Paulo. Very modern city, great bus network. Here you’ll find plants by Volvo, Chevrolet, Fiat, I think John Deere too, they make/cultivate everything they need.
    And they’re crying for qualified workers. Plus…oh, hold on, they’re bringing me a hot cappuccino now (I work online out of a beautiful 4-star hotel during the day, so the service is wonderful & I just ordered my favorito hot drink)…
    “Hello Senhor James! How are you today?”
    “Bom dia Catarina! Beautiful day today. How much is that? $2.15? Here you are. Mucho obrigado! I think our soccer team will beat your team this weekend.”
    “No we will mop the floor with your team’s jerseys haha. Chau Sir James!”
    What phuqqing lovely people.
    Lushlife you’ll meet the most loving, feminine women here, American women don’t hold a candle to the felines here. Slank, svelte, always high-heeled, beautifully dentured, extraordinarily feminine, long flowing raven hair as a rule, just a touch of makeup, with bangles & rings & other accoutrements adorning their lovely wrists. And they cook very well.
    Seems to be a recurring theme on this blog that American men can’t find what they’re looking for in American women…
    I’ll say it plain out: we MEN don’t want sneaker-wearing, short-hair’d sweat-suit wearing dunkin donut eating, makeup-caked rad-fem mannish overweighted blimps with size 88 waists. Enough!
    Les femmes naturel, j’adore. Just give me a warm, round in the right areas, FEMININE woman to adore & life’s great. Out.

  203. Laura Louzader August 25, 2010 at 8:48 am #

    Vlad, the theories of survival “experts” have not yet been tested in a time of general and permanent resource scarcity everywhere.
    If indeed this country devolves into the kind of chaos and violence that the hard-core survivalist fantasists envision, I would be no better off joining the hordes of desperados who would be wandering witlessly from city to country town to the next city or town, chasing every rumor of greener grass and growing more desperate and violent as their hopes fade. Nor would I be safer isolated in some little cottage in the middle of nowhere, either alone or with a small family group. Meanwhile, the small towns are going to become ferociously insular and defensive and they are not going to welcome the hordes of refugees with love and hot soup.
    If your town or city has a good fresh water supply and decent rail and water transportation, you’d do better stay there. Believe me, as things head down the slope, the city areas will get the services and allocations. Better hardship and hunger in a place that I know every secret nook an crany of and where I have a lot of associations going back two decades, than a place where I know nobody, or God forbid, some isolated survivalist shelter than isn’t quite isolated enough to escape the notice of bands of thugs and savages who’d be on the road looking for victims and loot. It isn’t going to be any better out on land occupied and vigorously defended by people who know the place, love it, and are prepared to protect themselves against the hordes of people who would descend upon it in the “Mad Max” scenario so many survivalist types visualize.
    As it is, there will be many places that simply will not be livable without high energy imputs, such as the desert cities that overshot their own native water supplies by 1900 and couldn’t support a tenth of their populations without the monumental water reclamation system that BuRec has built out west. These people will have to leave their cities, most likely. I hope they go back to St. Louis, Cleveland, Detroit, and other hallowed out places with ample fresh water and lots of empty land and rebuild them along more sustainable lines.
    But I don’t really see a Mad Max-type scenario developing anyway. What I see is just much more poverty and difficulty, and a slow grinding down as we take more losses and the body count rises. Absolutely everything will be much more expensive and more people will do without more of the necessities, and will have much shorter lifespans as a result.
    What I also see is tens of millions of people who will somehow adapt without turning into savages. I also see a revival of manners AND a fierce intolerance of criminal behavior developing. People will be much more impatient with criminal goons than previously and the easy-going tolerance of thugs of the past few decades will fade very quickly. There will be some summary justice, I suspect, done upon the gangs of street toughs who have been given to think they own this tows.
    It will not be fun, but neither would life in some unheated little cabin in the middle of nowhere. Life will be tough and scary here, I’m sure, but it won’t be any better anywhere else, or in some strange place around people I don’t know.
    And I still say anyone who tries to make a living in the casinos is very deluded, Vlad. Since I live close to the Asian community, I meet a lot of people who believe they can make out in the casinos, and these are people talented at math who have built successful businesses previously, only to lose it all out at Harrahs or some other casino. People who really want to survive financially stay out of these places.

  204. Dostoyevsky August 25, 2010 at 9:00 am #

    Oh Vladdy my lad
    I don’t hate you I just despise what you stand for.
    Now some congratulations are in order!
    You managed to write 3 replies in a row without using the word ‘hubris’ which is pretty good going for you.
    However your waxing lyrical to poor old Laura with:
    “Without the smell of shit, you can’t have the smell of roses;
    You Liberaltarians and your urban gardens are the chaff that the wind blows away;
    the sand castles of proud humility boasting against the incoming tide”,
    is all a bit too much. From where do you dredge up this unadulterated crap, is it from a Mills and Boon novel??
    Oh and by the way sacrifice is spelled as I did not “sacrafice”
    And lastly please say a friendly “Ola” from me to your nice new neighbours in the trailer park.
    Lock and load all ye rednecks.

  205. messianicdruid August 25, 2010 at 9:08 am #

    “What you see in the media and what they “teach” you in school is all a lie and an elaborate masquerade to hide that simple truth.”
    Thank You, Mika. E, the poor {simple?} are more aware of the disparities between themselves and the elitists, generally speaking, than “smart” people. Being lumped in with the oppressors can only be overcome by humility, certainly not with the disdain you exhibit. We are all blinded to some degree.
    “They have not known nor understood; for He hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see, and their hearts, that they cannot understand.”

  206. progressorconserve August 25, 2010 at 9:43 am #

    Hey man, I’m appreciating your look at Brazilian society. Not sure how your Average American would prosper down there – probably not terribly well – but GLAD to hear how it’s working for you and get your perspective.
    Brazil has youth and new industry on her side, but they’ve also got some “good decisions” being made; reference their conversion to ethanol for transportation.
    I see reports that Brazilians have a low level of gun ownership yet have a disproportionate rate of violence/murder. Can you travel freely and/or are there large? areas where non-locals should not go?
    It’s looking more and more like the oil/coal/nuclear lobby will prevent “good decisions” from ever being made in the States.
    We are one thoroughly manipulated population up here.
    I’m assuming you are an expat US citizen?
    We’d like to hear your perspectives on some or all of these ideas.

  207. lbendet August 25, 2010 at 9:59 am #

    Did somebody say “Mild Depression”?
    Maybe JHK’s timing isn’t so off, after all.
    As I watched MSNBC last evening I heard a newscast that breaks into the show that described the economy in terms of a possible mild depression. Unemployment in trending upwards and the stock market is heading downward.
    Not the prosperity is around the corner signs we were hoping for. Guess the stimulus + globalism isn’t the paradigm for increasing employment in the US.
    Now they are introducing us to the “D” word.(We are now entertaining into the narrative a brave new Word!)
    John W. Schoen (8/22) writes: “But what are the odds that we’re in the early stages of what will eventually become a depression rather than just a recession?
    The answer starts with definitions. While the term “depression” is reserved for the most extreme economic collapses, there is no technical definition, say economists.
    “The difference between a recession and depression is primarily a matter of degree,” said Victor Zarnowitz, a University of Chicago economist and a member of the business cycle dating committee at the National Bureau of Economic Research. “A depression is much more severe and usually longer than a recession.”
    With no set milestones, the term doesn’t really apply until after it’s clear a downturn is one of the worst in history.
    As bad as things are today, conditions are nowhere near as bad as they were during the Great Depression. At least not yet.”
    I’m afraid this is something Xanax (or Soma) can’t help!

  208. CynicalOne August 25, 2010 at 10:00 am #

    “But I don’t really see a Mad Max-type scenario developing anyway. What I see is just much more poverty and difficulty, and a slow grinding down as we take more losses and the body count rises. Absolutely everything will be much more expensive and more people will do without more of the necessities, and will have much shorter lifespans as a result.”
    I couldn’t agree more. I guess that makes me an optimist? Who knew.

  209. CynicalOne August 25, 2010 at 10:10 am #

    “As bad as things are today, conditions are nowhere near as bad as they were during the Great Depression. At least not yet.”
    Give it time. Recovery Summer (lol!) is winding down.

  210. welles August 25, 2010 at 10:24 am #

    Brazil is self-sufficient in virtually every way, I think. They can feed themselves, they produce enormous quantities of renewable ethanol for their cars, they have billions of barrels of oil reserves, massive hydroelectric production, lots of manufacturing, decent and getting better education.
    They have too much bureaucracy, the gov’t folks make multiples of what private sector jobbies get.
    A gov’t customs inspector pulls in $7k a month, judges probably twice that, etc. Private sector workers earn $400 on the low end (menial jobs) up to $5-7k/mo on the higher end.
    Highly noteworthy: TV here commonly shows secret-camera footage of politicians stuffing stacks of money in their socks and underwear, details how the parliament members hire 30 family members each, etc.
    The other day, the nation watched footage of state senators vacationing with their families in Paraguay, buying cheap electronics and lolling on the beach, all at taxpayer expense while allegedly attending ‘professional education’ courses.
    One reporter walked up to a state senate president sauntering in an outside marketplace and asked him whether he was attending a course for professional education, or just stealing public tax money on a free vacation with his family.
    The senator took off running, with the reporter running behind him with the microphone: “Mr. President, are you learning anything here or just shopping with your family!?”
    The next footage was of the senate president in an auditorium back home, filled with a hundred seriously irate taxpayers, and fisticuffs ensued. He had that pale scared look on his face.
    The next scene showed a dozen policemen confiscating documents from senate offices, with taxpayers cheering and clapping as they watched.
    Death to US MatrixMedia. Vlad is right, violence is the answer.

  211. Qshtik August 25, 2010 at 10:29 am #

    Do you play in Atlantic City?
    No, I haven’t set foot in A.C. in many years. I’m turned off by the fake opulence of casinos and I don’t gamble, other than the gambling aspects of the stock market. I would never have guessed that you would be a denizen of the casinos.

  212. The Mook August 25, 2010 at 11:24 am #

    Tattooes. I don’t have one but I see a lot of tattoo bashing on this site. Anyway, my son-in-law has tons of tattoes. He also has a very successful mechanical engineering firm in Philadelphia. On the other hand, his brother has no tattoes. He is the base commander at Camp Pendelton in California. Put the two side-by-side and other than the tattoes they look very much alike, act the same, and are both very intelligent. I’ll take either one backing me up when the SHTF.

  213. progressorconserve August 25, 2010 at 11:30 am #

    Interesting ideas, Wells!
    And considering self-sufficient Brazil, located on the equator – there we may find a survival “lifeboat” for humanity and for *modern* civilization.
    Consider that fact that sea turtles, just for example, have survived virtually unchanged by evolution for +/-100 million years. The reason is that equatorial climates are much more stable than polar and temperate climates. And there sits Brazil.
    Hopefully (just to drive Vlad crazy – I haven’t done that in a couple of weeks!) if Brazil survives while the rest of us die off – –
    Hopefully what will survive out of Brazil is a intelligent racially mixed “hybrid race,” that can recolonize the planet. At least then there would be *one less thing* (race) about which to fight.
    And Wells, I’ve gotta assume you’re an American expat because of your comment:
    “Death to US MatrixMedia. Vlad is right, violence is the answer.”
    Brazil’s media does sound superior to ours, for confrontation and investigation, but that may be because Brazil has bigger and more easily found problems.
    I don’t see violence on the horizon for the US as long as the power stays on and the food keeps coming.

  214. progressorconserve August 25, 2010 at 11:52 am #

    That’s a pretty good list:
    “huge bags of rice from Costco
    huge bags of pinto beans (25 lbs)
    2 gallons of olive oil
    100 gallons of water
    3 tanks of propane for the outdoor grill
    20 tanks of propane for the Coleman stove/lantern
    mass quantities of different sized batteries from Costco.
    Hidden stash of paper money
    Hidden silver coins”
    I’d think about swapping out some of your flashlights and batteries for a couple more of my LP fueled Coleman Lanterns. I just hate batteries because of environmental reasons – plus they have a finite shelf life – personal choice.
    We’ve always camped, so we’ve always had the stoves and lanterns. We’ve frequently been a family/neighborhood haven during long power outages due to ice storms. We’d have the only house around with lights (lanterns), warmth (fireplace/wood stove), and something to cook on (LP stove).
    But, long-term, for my family we’d want a quantity of meat-type (or cheese or egg) protein in addition.
    We’ve got canned/freeze dried protein, but not really enough for very long.
    I worry about shelf life of things. The chickens provide a nice source of fresh protein as long as they keep laying and the neighbors and the ‘coons don’t get them.
    I like things with an infinite storage life. White sugar, for example, in a off-the-shelf sealed plastic bag will NEVER spoil. And we could make a bunch of stuff out of the woods taste OK with enough sugar and oil. (Acorns, shoots, roots, etc.)
    What does your Mormon mom think about all this, especially about animal protein storage?
    Best regards,

  215. San Jose Mom 51 August 25, 2010 at 12:08 pm #

    I’ll ask my Mom for her preparedness list. Might take until next week — but I’ll post it.
    The Mormons in SLC are amazingly organized. Each street has an emergency team captain that is trained to deal with disaster. Doesn’t matter if your not Mormon, the neighborhood will see that your basic needs are met in an emergency–at least in my Mom’s neighborhood.
    Although I don’t believe in Mormon theology or politics, Mormons make great neighbors. My Dad passed away in May from MSA, Multiple System Atrophy, and was in home-hospice care. I’d flown out for the weekend to be with my mom, since my brother, who lives in SLC, was in Europe. My dad passed earlier than the doctors had predicted.
    Within two hours of his death, TWO dinners were delivered to the house. The bishop was there within the hour. For weeks, my mother had all her dinners brought over by Mormon neighbors.
    Contrast this with the Presbyterian response here in San Jose. We’ve been members of a church for 24 years, and every year my husband pledges thousands of dollars. I’ve been ordained a deacon and my husband is an elder and has served on session. Thus, we’re not Christmas and Easter Presbyterians. My dad’s death was posted in the online newsletter. Did I even get a call from our pastor? No. Nothing. Zippo. My feelings are very hurt.
    So when the pledge campaign for 2011 comes up in October, I’m going to insist that our pledge be drastically reduced. A major snitfest is in the works.

  216. progressorconserve August 25, 2010 at 12:39 pm #

    A major “snitfest,” hey! That’s a good one – made me chuckle. And there’s no doubt Mormons make good neighbors and family members – once you convince them you can not be *converted.* LOL!
    And I do respect the Mormons for their emphasis on preparedness and food storage. They’ve got a good website that I’ve made reference to, since we’ve moved to the mountains and begun to feel a need for *survival stuff.*
    I was actually into survival foods and gear back in the early ’80’s, when Reagan was pushing the USSR to kill us all.
    At that time Georgia was divided by ZIP codes for *resettlement* in the event of disaster (read Nuclear Attack). My dad and I and key family members all memorized the ZIP codes that would have us all *resettle* to the area in middle Georgia where he had a little cabin in the woods. We had some food stored, but we also had friends in the area and a plan to survive and thrive – – – eventually.
    Those days are gone. The little cabin was sold and converted to a huge McMansion lake house a few years ago. My dad and his network of men who survived the depression have passed on as well.
    Now I guess my wife and I have the “plan B” *resettlement* cabin in the mountains. We might make it work – but it would have been a lot easier if we could have had my dad and his buddies with their skills for hard times – around.

  217. Al Klein August 25, 2010 at 1:15 pm #

    Welles, you are lucky that your post didn’t get dissected for grammar and spelling violations. As I recall, QSHTIK is the commissar of the Grammar and Spelling Soviet on this blog. Style always trumps content. Something about consistency’s being a hobgoblin of …

  218. Vlad Krandz August 25, 2010 at 1:23 pm #

    You paint a very attractive picture – but be more specific about racial attitudes. Do the Whites know themselves as White and value our unique heritage and genotype? And see the relationship between the two? Multiculturalism and Multiracialism can work in small doses – as long as there is a clearly dominant group – us. No Black, Brown, or Yellow brain ever conceived of such an ideal. Only the madly idealistic White Man would ever dream of voluntarily relinquishing some power or territory for the benefit of other groups. But the other groups sure understand how to guilt trip us and work the PC bureacracy. And they will not stop until stopped.
    Perhaps what I’m looking for is more evident in Argentina, Uruguay, and Chile. If Whites don’t consciously value themselves, your paradise can’t last.

  219. San Jose Mom 51 August 25, 2010 at 1:55 pm #

    Mom has stored protein. I haven’t looked to carefully at all her stuff, but she has protein powder, mass quantities of tuna fish, and canned cheese (shudder).
    She stores honey for her sugar needs. Apparently it stays good for centuries, and it’s in a huge tin so that mice can’t break into it.
    My family’s plan B, is to head to Grandma’s house.
    Of course that assumes there are roads and that gas can be purchased. It’s an 800 mile journey from San Jose to SLC.

  220. envirofrigginmental August 25, 2010 at 1:57 pm #

    This is unrelated to Monday’s post, but is something I think many of you would enjoy listening to:

  221. asia August 25, 2010 at 2:01 pm #

    ‘Brazil is self-sufficient in virtually every way’
    NO!..it has tourist $, narco terrorist $ and allows immigrants.and does trade.
    so much for being ‘ SS’!
    and the rainforests going, thats the earths lungs.

  222. asia August 25, 2010 at 2:02 pm #

    3 word: chicago, riots, daly. [ or is it daley?]

  223. turkle August 25, 2010 at 2:05 pm #

    America is just going to get poorer and will look more like a poor country. It isn’t going to turn into Mad Max all of a sudden. So much for the bug out fantasies.

  224. asia August 25, 2010 at 2:06 pm #

    its not just what you store but how you store it!
    i [and others] have found that out thet hard way.

  225. turkle August 25, 2010 at 2:12 pm #

    You are the saddest, most deluded loser on this blog.
    And that’s really saying something…

  226. welles August 25, 2010 at 2:20 pm #

    Vlad my Impaler Homey, homo sapiens in this neck of the tropics don’t give the proverbial rat’s hottentot about race, it’s not part of the Equation. Yep I know there are differences, grave differences.
    The Divided States of America is where that brainswill plays to a receptive audience. Just do a Bob Barker and Come on Down to see for yourself.
    That said, la communauté blanche is very mindful of their roots in Poland, Germany, and Italy — I think that covers the major white immigrant populations here — and you’ll often see programs on tv celebrating said heritage.
    My girlfriend’s family is black-lily white-indigenous-cinnamon, it makes ’em strong that hybridization does.

  227. turkle August 25, 2010 at 2:22 pm #

    Overpopulation, resource scarcity and depletion (soil, water, fossil fuels), global warming, the dying oceans, and massive government debt are things to worry about.
    Someone whose skin happens to be a little darker than yours…not so much.
    From what I remember, the Nazis were the last group to try and implement the White Paradise. That didn’t end up working out so well for them. There is a reason people are distrustful and skeptical of people like Vlad the Impaler. The last time ideas like his were acted upon, it almost destroyed the world.
    Pick up a copy of Overshoot by Catton instead of reading Mein Kampf for the fifth time. Racial issues are going to be completely incidental.
    And what’s this multi-culturalism I hear so much about? Most Americans seem to me to be pretty much the same, watching the same stupid television shows, living in the same dumb grotesquely huge houses, running up massive levels of debt, believing the same stupid fantasies about their own infallibility and special place in the world, etc.
    The fact that someone speaks a different language than you or listens to different music or cooks tacos for dinner is completely unimportant.
    On the other hand, the fact that we have hit Peak Oil and are on the downside is definitely something to be concerned about. And that has absolutely nothing to do with the color of anyone’s skin.

  228. turkle August 25, 2010 at 2:23 pm #

    Yeah, I dunno what hole Vlad the Impaler crawled out of. The rest of the world is getting along fine with multi-culturalism. It is about the last thing I worry about.

  229. welles August 25, 2010 at 2:30 pm #

    Asia writes — Brazil is self-sufficient in virtually every way’
    NO!..it has tourist $, narco terrorist $ and allows immigrants.and does trade.

    Thanks for making me chuckle! I’ll put out the Warning too:
    “Everyone listen up! : Stay OUT of Brazil! They have tourist dollars, there is money there from DRUGS, they permit IMMIGRANTS [to do something], and there’s something else…they have TRADE!”
    The dingbat siren’s going woohooey…Asia I’d buy you a drink but you’re prolly on floor kabillion in one of eightm’s trillion Skyscrapers of Eternal Abundance.
    You keep make joke laugh, you velly welcome in Laugh Club ha!

  230. asia August 25, 2010 at 2:35 pm #

    i was responding to his ‘fact’..not judging it.
    for a judgement read ‘ worlds most dangerous places’

  231. asia August 25, 2010 at 2:38 pm #

    NY Times, front page monday: venezuela is more and more like columbia…very dangerous.

  232. turkle August 25, 2010 at 2:39 pm #

    Where are some good places to visit in Brazil, welles?
    I have some contacts there who run a little resort in a nice beach-side community. From what I’ve seen, it looks beautiful. Have to find out exactly which town that is….South America is on my travel todo list. Family member goes there every so often for 6 weeks at a time and absolutely loves it.
    The Patagonia region is also supposed to be amazing.
    But, gee whiz, how do you get along with so many terrible BROWN PEOPLE constantly assaulting your inherently superior WHITENESS?!

  233. asia August 25, 2010 at 2:41 pm #

    ‘And what’s this multi-culturalism I hear so much about?e
    the fact that someone speaks a different language than you or listens to different music or cooks tacos for dinner is completely unimportant.’
    clearly the wods of a fool who deosnt live in east l.a.!
    ‘ Most Americans seem to me to be pretty much the same, watching the same stupid television shows, living in the same…….’
    yr the one whos stupid!

  234. asia August 25, 2010 at 2:42 pm #

    ‘I see reports that Brazilians have a low level of gun ownership yet have a disproportionate rate of violence/murder. Can you travel freely and/or are there large? areas where non-locals should not go?’
    if you go into a barrio you may be taking yr life in yr own hands.
    see ‘ worlds most dangerous places’ theres a chapter on brazil.

  235. turkle August 25, 2010 at 2:47 pm #

    So I’m the one who is stupid…thanks for that brilliant retort.
    Most places aren’t East LA. I could say the same thing about Somalia.
    Heck, you could be in just as much trouble if you’re Norteno and go into East LA, and that’s basically the same culture. What you’re talking about is gang territorialism and has f***-all to do with multi-culturalism.

  236. treebeardsuncle August 25, 2010 at 2:50 pm #

    Have been reading the following book lately The FAT oe the Forest: Developers, Destroyers, and Defenders of the Amazon by Susanna Hect and Alexander Cockburn. The first copyright date was 1990 and the book does not appear to have been revised since then so the last 20 years are not covered. So, the question of the reason for the destruction of the Amazon’s forests and animals is raised and investigated. The first thing that I can say that is clear is that agriculture as opposed to horticulture — the food forests of the indians and rubber tappers — is a force for the degradation of the biosphere. Then one can raise the question of why then — as in the period of 1960 – 1990 was this happening. Well, government policy was a key force. Just as the US government wanted the land settled to keep out other countries so too did the Brazilian generals who took over in the 1960s. The founding of the new capital Brasilia in the central uplands and the completion of the Belem-Brasilia highway were instrumental in that effort. The next thing one can see very clealy is that road building leads to rapid destruction of forests the world over. Building the roads, especially when they are paved, so they can be used by the elements of modern ground transportation opens up the lands to loggers, settlers, miners, etc, who then destroy the forests. A big part of this is land speculation. Land close to the major roads such as the Belem-Manaus and trans-Amazon highways is worth much more than that far from them, sometimes ten times as much. Secondly, land that is pasture is worth about 30% more than land that is forest. Furthermore, clearing the land greatly helps in gaining title to the land due to a Brazilian law that recognizes such clearing as effective use and grounds for title. Combining this fact with tax breaks, incentives, the prestige and relative longevity (10 years or so) of cattle ranching relative to cropping (about 3 years) encourages the development of vast cattle ranches. Note, that since the nutrients are in the forests not in the soils, agriculture does not last long, and over 50% of the cleared lands had become waste and abandoned by the order of 1990 or so.(page 174 in the book above. Rather than a tragedy of a commons, the concepts of private land ownership, profit, and resultant speculation have led to the destruction of the biota. Part of this modern international and intranational industrial capitalist dynamic has led to consolidation and modernization of agriculture in central south Brazil ( in places like the state of Goyas) forcing out local people and encouraging them to move in to the Amazon. Chronic drought in the northeast has been a historical source for encouraging migration. City slum dwellers also head west to gain land and/or work in the mines. In conclusion don’t think life in Brazil, South and Central America, is so desirable. Just as in Africa, murder and poverty are ways of life there. Brazil, in particular, has among the most unequal distribution of land, assets in general, and incomes in the world.

  237. turkle August 25, 2010 at 2:53 pm #

    Let’s not pretend like other cultures have some kind of especial propensity for violence that we don’t.
    How many people in the ME have we killed over the last 10 years?
    How many people die by gun violence in the US in one year?
    How many people here are in gangs or in prison?
    Who kicked off WWII in Europe? Were they brown?
    Who makes all the guns that people kill each other with? Colt, Smith and Wesson, etc. Are they run mostly by yellow and brown people?
    For f***s sake, where do you numb nuts get your s***ty material, from Glenn Beck’s blog?

  238. welles August 25, 2010 at 3:04 pm #

    …too many beautiful women walking by outside….Oh! sorry, what was that? Nice places to visit here in Brazil?
    I’d say just get to know people, hang with them for…God! there goes a blonde beauty OMG! hair sparkling in the sun. perfect 10 figure too, god DAMN.
    sorry, just get to know the people, you’ll end up having a festa with them and laughing your tipsy tush off while feasting on phenomenally tasty beef etc. It’s all about having a good time, you forget the exterior, the locale.
    But, I hear the island of Fernando de Noronha is beyond spectacular. Oh and last year I put on an 11-ft tall Amazon Indian costume and paraded through the streets during Carnaval. Wow the greased up, cinnamon-skinned hunks/babes are delish to behold, skin rules!
    You know you could go to france and see the Eiffel tower and paris ‘n whatnot but what do you really take away if you don’t meet and partake in the special existence the people play out?
    last week i was at a cantina, everyone was slightly inebriated & shooting comments back and forth LOUD about their soccer teams or other favorite subjects of mirth, people exchanging semi-hugs with each other whenever acquaintances or friends showed up.
    i ended up laughing about who-knows-what conversation topic with two just-made friends, we leaned against someone’s car and brought out bottle after bottle of beer and had a grand ole time.
    one of them said ‘hey let’s grab some beef there’s a good restaurant down on X Street’, so we piled into two cars and zipped off on a typical impromptu New Friend Adventure.
    Haven’t seen these guys since then, but next time I do we’ll have another round of guffaws and end up somewhere eating, drinking & making merry.
    life is simple.
    btw they’re both blackish fellows.

  239. Cash August 25, 2010 at 3:22 pm #

    I think that this hybrid race will change in appearance as it re-colonizes the globe. I’m no geneticist but my understanding is that the need to produce vitamin D in areas with less sunlight is the reason for light coloured skin ie you need certain amounts of sunlight hitting your skin to do the job. So evolutionary pressures over hundreds or thousands of years will select for lighter skins in northern latitudes, darker skins in southern latitudes.

  240. envirofrigginmental August 25, 2010 at 3:23 pm #

    I too share JHK’s disgust for what our society has managed to physically produce over the past several decades. In the history of humanity, no group of human beings has managed to produce as much architectural junk as we have, not-to-mention completely undermining eons of urban form-making.
    Newfoundland, for example, is a stunning landscape, but the coastal highways radiating out from St. John’s (the provincial capital) are littered with ticky-tacky, vinyl (pronounced ‘vee-nell’ for those with delusions of grandeur) homes and businesses with no rhyme or reason for their placement or orientation. Strings of dreary bungalows plod on in an endless throng of visual diarrhea that sullies the otherwise stunning landscape.
    This motif is repeated here in southern Ontario (a result of farmers continually selling off 1 acre parcels on a regular basis to try to keep their farms from going under) only the topography is generally less robust and the bungalows show signs of greater wealth… but the visual results are the same.
    Death by a thousand cuts I call it.

  241. Cash August 25, 2010 at 3:58 pm #

    The fact that someone speaks a different language than you or listens to different music or cooks tacos for dinner is completely unimportant. – Turkle
    Turkle, would you please come and educate our French speaking province? They disagree vehemently with you on this.
    250 years ago the British and French empires fought a battle that the French happened to lose and thereby lost their colony in Quebec.
    Quebecers haven’t gotten over it, they detest the English (les maudits bloke), we’ve had political instability for decades, Quebec has passed laws limiting the use of English in Quebec, French Quebecers have turned their backs on us.
    It’s not like we didn’t try. We made French an official language, changed our national flag, dismembered our military, dishonoured and spat on our soldiers, changed the name of our national holiday, embarked on years of fruitless constitutional wrangling.
    For almost 40 years we had all of our Prime Ministers, senior cabinet ministers, our senior civil servants all from Quebec. All to placate French Quebec and all to no avail.
    What did we get out of it? A sometimes violent and deadly separatist movement that continues to seriously screw up our national politics, two referendums on secession.
    Don’t kid yourself my friend. Differences in language and culture matter. Maybe they shouldn’t but they do. And if you don’t believe me go ask the Basque and Catalan in Spain or people in Ireland.

  242. Qshtik August 25, 2010 at 4:00 pm #

    But, gee whiz, how do you get along
    Wow! thems powerful words Turk … next thing you’ll be saying “holy cheese and crackers.”
    I’m always amused at the lengths some people will go to to avoid saying a BAD word.

  243. turkle August 25, 2010 at 4:12 pm #

    Holy cheese and crackers…I like it…can I steal that?

  244. Qshtik August 25, 2010 at 4:17 pm #

    Let’s not pretend like other cultures have some kind of especial propensity for violence that we don’t.
    Dictionary.com says:
    Where an idea of pre-eminence or individuality is involved, either especial or special may be used: he is my especial (or special ) friend; he is especially (or specially ) good at his job. In informal English, however, special is usually preferred in all contexts

  245. turkle August 25, 2010 at 4:18 pm #

    Yeah, when it is those damn French we’re talking about, all bets are off. 😉

  246. turkle August 25, 2010 at 4:19 pm #

    I’m always amazed at what a pedantic twit you are, Qshtik.

  247. turkle August 25, 2010 at 4:35 pm #

    Good points re: Quebec. I was being a bit too glib.
    I am mainly responding to those on here who seem to think that “white” culture…
    1) Is the bestest ever.
    2) Is some kind of peaceful circle singing Kumbaya compared with other cultures.
    3) Has something especially horrible to fear from all the brown/yellow/black people of the world.
    4) Has a special destiny as preservers of civilization.
    Clearly, if you look at history, European cultures (there isn’t just one) have been among the most violent and destructive around, if not the most.
    They invented the modern military, dynamite, and nuclear bombs (well the American branch of European culture), along with a bunch of other fun killin toys, too numerous to list. Europe had two gigantic internal wars in the 20th century that killed millions of people, not to mention centuries of conflict based on religious differences and nationalism.
    I don’t think many other cultures can even compete with it in these respects.
    I guess one might point at militant Islam as being more violent than…us. Well, the AK and plastic explosives weren’t invented by Persia or Babylon, I can tell you that much.
    Then there’s Mexico…where do you think they get 90% of their guns? It ain’t Guatamala.
    I mean it is just flat-out hilarious for Americans, who spend more on “defense” than the rest of the world combined, to call other cultures violent or barbaric.
    I still think resource and climate issues are going to be far more important though. Look at it this way. If the 6 billion people of the planet were all lilly white and spoke the same language, the poo still hits the fan when the Go Juice runs out and the earth heats up by 3 degrees.
    Bottom line is that everyone poops. I learned that from a kid’s book.
    The whole notion of “race” is kinda cloudy for me, anyways. Does it have to do with skin color? Physiology? Language? Nationalism? Culture?
    The idea that there is actually a “white” culture to be defended in the first place is a bit dubious, because this notion seems to include too many different cultures, from America to Russia. A bit of a stretch, if you ask me.

  248. Qshtik August 25, 2010 at 4:37 pm #

    Don’t kid yourself my friend. Differences in language and culture matter. Maybe they shouldn’t but they do. And if you don’t believe me go ask the Basque and Catalan in Spain or people in Ireland.
    Cash comes through in the clutch, as always, to debunk bullshit wherever he finds it. Three cheers for Cash!

  249. turkle August 25, 2010 at 4:43 pm #

    And don’t all you internet White Power trolls think that, just maybe, the darkly colored peoples of the world have more to fear than us, based on, ya know, history?
    European nations did, after all, colonialize and enslave vast portions of the globe in fairly recent history. Some countries in Africa didn’t gain their independence until the 60’s or 70’s. Africa is still living with the consequences from the arbitrary borders that divided major tribes and ethnicities into separate countries based on European whims.
    When was the last time a country in Africa invaded a European country and killed 10 million of its people like the Dutch did in the Congo?
    Hint: Never.
    So maybe you all should just shut your pieholes and be glad that most people of the world seem to have forgiven us for our…transgressions. Heck, the Chinese are trying to be just like America, now, complete with clogged highways.

  250. turkle August 25, 2010 at 4:53 pm #

    For every Quebec, I can point you to countries that are truly multi-cultural and function just fine (Brazil and the US come to mind, not to mention most of Europe, these days), or at least their problems have nothing to do with encompassing multiple cultures. Empires of ancient history included many different cultures under their umbrellas (Rome, Ottoman Empire). So you can say that it doesn’t work, but you’d be wrong. It works more often than it doesn’t, because people are more alike than different and generally have similar goals (e.g. wealth, happiness, security, etc.).
    I’m far more worried about what happens when the global oil supply is cut in half due to depletion. It won’t matter one whit what your favorite culture is at that point.
    Well, Brazil, they seem to have things figured out in terms of a lifeboat strategy. The US? Not so much. I’d worry, and not because there are a lot of people here eating enchilladas and speaking Spanish.

  251. turkle August 25, 2010 at 5:08 pm #

    I seem to remember there being a none-too-flattering chapter on America in World’s Most Dangerous Places. 😉

  252. asoka August 25, 2010 at 5:29 pm #

    welles, don’t let ignorant folk get under your skin.
    I am here to confirm everything you say about Brazil. I have traveled all over Brazil from Manaus to Igauzu Falls and it is a GREAT country.
    My favorite place was Curitiba.

  253. asoka August 25, 2010 at 6:12 pm #

    Vlad said Idaho is a white state.
    White persons not Hispanic, 2009 … 84.5%
    SOURCE: United States Census
    I’ve been telling my family about all the good things you have said about Idaho, Vlad. We have experience living in MHP. See you soon!

  254. bossier22 August 25, 2010 at 6:18 pm #

    reply to turkel again, if western civ is so horrible, and brown, black, and yellow cultures are so pure innocent and admirable. then why are they moving in large numbers to america europe and australia? and, conversely, why are only a handful westerners moving to africa or south america? those that do move there are obvious adventurous free sprits like wells

  255. turkle August 25, 2010 at 6:27 pm #

    Straw man. I didn’t say any of that. I didn’t call western civilization “horrible” and I didn’t say other cultures were “pure, innocent, and admirable.” Everyone’s gotten in on the war games over the years. Many non-Western cultures have enslaved and conquered other people. My point was that pegging countries like Brazil as particularly violent in comparison to European or Western ones is absurd, given the historical record, which shows European civilization to be among the most violent (or violence-producing) cultures that has ever existed.
    People are moving to America, Europe, and Australia not because they like the culture. Those countries are RICH and have high-paying jobs and standards of living. Economics has far more to do with it than any cultural considerations. Just like how Mexicans don’t particularly like US culture. They aren’t here to eat hamburgers and watch American Idol. They just want a decent paying job.

  256. bossier22 August 25, 2010 at 6:28 pm #

    what is happening is the west is committing suicide by demographics. we are experiencing reverse colonization. in a couple hundred years whites will be the slaves assuming any survive

  257. turkle August 25, 2010 at 6:30 pm #

    Well, Brazil does have some extreme violence in some of its cities, but violence comes in a lot of forms. There’s the direct kind, with people shooting each other. But then you have to think, who is making the weapons and benefiting from this? They are part of it. For instance, 90% of the guns used in Mexican drug wars come from America. And almost all the drugs come here. So we’re part of it.
    Colonizing other countries/countries and taking their resources is another form of violence, and Western civilization has specialized in this, recently.

  258. larycham August 25, 2010 at 6:34 pm #

    I found your travel tale of your trip through NH and Maine interesting, especially in light of several similar trips we made in the late 1980s and early 1990s. I know things have changed but WOW! All the plastic has proliferated, and the people have expanded.
    But I wonder. An old English prof once gave us freshmen a simple way to think of realists and romantics. Two guys walk down a city ally. The realist takes note of the drunk lying amidst the litter with mouth agape. The other fellow sees the drunk but is really struck by the little wildflower growing up from the crack in the pavement. In our trip 20-plus years ago we saw it all, with lots of uglification where beauty should have been. But we did manage to find some real beauty, in a Maine state park and in a nice little campground on the coast. And the White Mountains in NH were spectacular, enticing us into hikes up several of the mountains in the Presidential Range, Mount Madison and Jefferson being particular favorites. I remember thinking there should be a Reagan Gorge, but I never promoted the idea.
    Bottom-line question: Did you find any beauty to enjoy in your trip?

  259. turkle August 25, 2010 at 6:47 pm #

    People move around to where the going is good. They always have. The demographic shifts at the end of the Roman Empire were far more violent than those occurring now, and that was white people fighting each other.
    Old cultures die. New ones form. There is nothing so special about “white” people that the world wouldn’t muddle along without them just fine. If people’s skin color in a couple hundred years is on average a bit darker, so freaking what? You won’t be around anyways, so quit worrying about it.

  260. Eleuthero August 25, 2010 at 6:54 pm #

    Yes, I have an H.L. Mencken view of people
    and, yes, most throughout history have
    probably been vain, dumb, etc. but it’s all
    a matter of DEGREE.
    I work with a lot of people in my job and
    there’s no doubt in my mind that the average
    Joe has gotten WAY greedier and dumber than
    I’ve encountered in the rest of my 58 years
    of life.

  261. Eleuthero August 25, 2010 at 7:02 pm #

    Point taken, Mook. However, all other
    things being equal, I prefer the company
    of people with less overt vanity. We’re
    ALL vain in some way or another but we
    don’t have to wear a permanent reminder
    of our vanity on our skin.
    By the way, I *was* sweeping with a very
    broad brush in my post about tattoos.
    I’ve met perfectly nice people with them,
    of course. However, I am disturbed by
    one thing … it seems that most tattoo
    kids only hang out with OTHER tattoo kids.
    There’s a kind of “fraternity of fuck-you-ness”
    that these gaggles of kids seem to be thrusting
    in people’s faces. Our badness used to be
    something we hid. Now it’s something we

  262. turkle August 25, 2010 at 7:05 pm #

    They didn’t have Fox News to help them along in their idiocy.

  263. Alexandra August 25, 2010 at 7:18 pm #

    Well I’m glad the solitude of the hiking worked for you Jim…
    But while you were away… what’s really new…?
    We all know we’re locked onboard the holed and listing OECD Titanic….. so why kid ourselves anything different? The course is set, with the inevitable fatal sinking (a no brainer)…. and once more there is no rescue ship off the horizon…
    Now what?
    These three reports tell you why sometime betwixt 2011 and 2013… our business as usual industrio/financial/militia-corprotocracy focused world… will finally flip-out for the count….and be death-punched onto the ropes…
    And not one of our current JIT systems can withstand any form of energy scarcity volatility….
    Lest we conveniently forget…post $147 the main boom to the UK economy was that oil prices collapsed quickly back to $33… this took the pressure off big time.. more so than anything else the B-o-E could achieve in fact….with QE money pixilation…
    But with oil at the $70-80pb level for months now….the result? General food prices rose by over 56% in just the last three years!!
    Meanwhile in the once prosperous West, every baby-boomer with any cash left or saved has no legitimate vehicle left to invest in – that has a hell in high waters chance of doing any real ROI.
    Property….(eergh…no I don’t think so)…
    Pensions (backed by blue-chip corp banking/bus/industry)… now that is comedic!
    Ditto anything linked to the benefits of mass globalization… that die the minute freight shipping is beached for good.
    Oh dear….?
    Lets’ all quaff down another pack of Prozac eh…?. Thank god…at last something tangibly useful… as a short-term investment vehicle!!
    As to gold, well most of you will have purchased paper or pixel holdings that have been resold many thousands of times over…. so what ‘value’ are you really holding?
    Sitting in your basement vault is it…..all glittery and shiny secure? Smells to me like yet another mother-pup of a ponzi failure… to come….to me?
    But ignorance is bliss…isn’t it people…
    So pour another sherry folks, get yer deck-chair into prime position on that rippling and cracking decking. Relax…. and take a big gulp of that calming sea air (try to ignore the fact that its petroleum tinged) .. and sit tight as the ship goes turtle and heads for those icy depths…
    Though when that listing gets really acute, and bodies start skewering off….you know the stage when all bets are finally off, with the chips finally down….
    Well what’s great is you can always safely bet on how those god-fearing steerage classes will behave…
    Be seeing you….

  264. myrtlemay August 25, 2010 at 8:47 pm #

    Interesting and disturbing observations, Alexandra! And so refreshingly non-pedantic!

  265. mika. August 25, 2010 at 9:23 pm #

    We are all blinded to some degree.
    Yes. The most dangerous person on earth is the arrogant intellectual who lacks the humility necessary to see that society needs no masters and cannot be planned from the top down. The intellectual lacking humility becomes a tyrant — and an accomplice in the destruction of the human spirit and civilization itself.

  266. progressorconserve August 25, 2010 at 9:54 pm #

    Like a lot of questions about humans, race, climate, and genetics – it gets pretty complicated in a hurry.
    There is vitamin D synthesis, as you mention, which selects for lighter skin in areas with reduced sunlight.
    There is folate absorption, which selects for darker skin in high sunlight areas.
    There is skin cancer, which selects for darker skin in high sunlight areas.
    But you are certainly correct when you say:
    “I think that this hybrid race will change in appearance as it re-colonizes the globe. I’m no geneticist but my understanding…”
    The offsetting factors might be *civilization* enabling populations to enrich diets and/or modify environments by living under shelter instead of exposed to the elements.
    Here’s a longish excerpt from Wikipedia on the subject that I found interesting:
    Jablonski and Chaplin note that when human indigenous peoples have migrated, they have carried with them a sufficient gene pool so that within a thousand years, the skin of their descendants living today has turned dark or turned light to adapt to fit the formula given above—with the notable exception of dark-skinned peoples moving north, such as to populate the seacoast of Greenland, to live where they have a year-round supply of food rich in vitamin D, such as fish, so that there was no necessity for their skin to lighten to let enough UV under their skin to synthesize the vitamin D that humans need for healthy bones.

  267. Qshtik August 25, 2010 at 9:56 pm #

    OK, it was a battered wok not a battered alligator, wink wink.
    But what about this?
    Ian807, come down here for awhile & get re-educated, especially if you need a job & have some technical skills, I can get you hired tomorrow for $4-8k per month.
    Does Ian have to speak Portuguese?
    And here’s your statement verbatim re the state taxes:
    Dude, i’ve been carless since my license was suspended for owing more than $10k in state taxes (HAHAHAH phuque you you fatass state workers with your grandiose pension dreams, EAT IT, $23K and counting you’ll never get from me! i preferred to help my own family, bitchez)
    Why such glee? What is the “salient part” I failed to take account of? Who doesn’t want to help their own family? What’s that got to do with anything?

  268. treebeardsuncle August 25, 2010 at 10:00 pm #

    The following article on the current mass extinction is a good follow-up.
    I was just saying that the major event of this next century would be the loss of most of the world’s biota.
    Would like to clarify that by specifying that the impacts will be greatest among vertebrates and plants, followed by arthropods and related phyla. Micro-organisms will fare somewhat better;
    From Today’s Chronicle
    Email Peter Fimrite at pfimrite@sfchronicle.com.
    Humans blamed:
    Earth on tract for mass extinction, scientists say
    by Peter Fimrite
    Chronicle Staff Writer
    If the course of human history is any model, then the wheels are already turning on Earth’s sixth mass extinction, thanks to habitat destruction, pollution, and now global warming, a scientific analysis of millions of years of data revealed Friday.
    The study of the fossil and archeological record over the past 30 million years by UC Berkeley and Penn State University researches shows that between 15 and 42 percent of the mammals in North America disappeared after humans arrived.
    That means North American mammals are well on the way — perhaps as much as halfway– to a level of extinction comparable to other epic die-offs, like the one that wiped out the dinosaurs.
    Anthony Barnosky, a UC Berkely professor of integrative biology and co-author of the study, said the most dramatic human-caused impacts on the ecosystem have occurred in the last century.
    “We are seeing a lot of geographic range reductions that are of a greater magnitude than we would expect, and we are seeing a loss of subspecies and even a few species,” Barnosky said. “So it looks like we are going into another one of these extinction events.”
    The analysis by Barnosky, research associate Marc Carasco and Penn State’s Russel Graham was published in the scientific journal PLoS ONE. It compares the extinctions of mammals in North America after humans arrived 13,000 years ago to the five mass extinctions on Earth over the past 450 million years.
    The least severe of those extinctions wiped out the dinosaurs 68 million years ago and killed off 75 percent of the species on the planet.
    Add human impact
    Although humans clearly did not have anything to do with the previous extinctions, many scientists are afraid that global warming and other environmental problems caused by the ever-increasing human population [and level of consumption} could have similarly catastrophic consequences.
    “He we are again, astronomically increasing the number of humans on the face of the globe, plus unusual climate change,” Barnosky said. “That seems to be a recipe for extinction that we saw in the past, and we are seeing again.”
    The work, which was supported by the National Science Foundation, looked at the number, distribution, and range of every mammal from shrews to mammoths in the area of the continental United States between 500 years ago and 30 million years ago.
    Previous research has shown that most mammal extinctions in North America, Australia, Europe and Northern Asia have occurred within a few thousand years after the arrival of humans. This study puts that data into historical perspective, providing the percentage of animals that went extinct during certain time periods compared with other epochs.
    50 gone in 2,000 years
    Humans reached North America about 13,000 years ago and more than 50 species disappeared over the next 2,000 years, including mammoths, saber-toothed cats, giant ground sloths and other large animals, according to the study.
    The arrival of humans coincided with the end of the last ice age, but the study pointed out that 38 other ice ages had occurred in North America over the past 2 million years and there were no comparable die-offs during th others.
    “The only difference is that 13,000 years ago, humans appeared on the scene,” Carrasco said. “The bottom line is mammals in general were able to deal with these changes in the past. Only when humans arrive do the numbers fall off a cliff.”
    There is, nevertheless, reason for optimism, Barnosky said. The number of extinctions has leveld off over the past 10,000 years,he said, and it is not too late to prevent a resurgence.
    “If we redouble our conservation efforts, we can stem the tide of extinctions and have those species around in the future,” he said. “There is a bit of urgency here. By demonstrating that we have already lost 15 to 42 percent of mammalian diversity, the question is, do we really want to lose any more? I think the answer is pretty obvious.”
    Future studies are expected to analyze the extinctions that occurred 40,0000 years ago when modern humans emerged from Africa into Europe and Asia.
    E-mail Peter Fimrite at pfimrite@sfchronicle.com.

  269. treebeardsuncle August 25, 2010 at 10:05 pm #

    I see that Ass-Sucka has raised his fatuous Orwellian double-speaking head with honey dripping from his forked tongue. He turns and casts a narrow-minded eye and an obfuscating mind upon the following:
    Language Geoffrey Harris
    Creole and Ebonics August 23, 2010
    On the Dialect of the American Negro
    Part of the reason blacks speak differently is because their brains and minds are different. Another reason is that their language is a creaole with distinctive African-derived verb forms in particular, such as the lack of a linking verb in a progressive phrase. A black male will not say “My friends and I were waiting there by the store.” Rather he would say something like “We hangin.” or “We chillin.” or “We’s there.” They also have special forms to distinguish completed actions from possible current continous actions suchs as “Jerome, he don go to de store.” or “Leroy, he de go to the store.” They also distinguish among actions that occured at various times in the past. For example, one might say. “Jerome, he gone.”
    That could Jerome went out this afternoon and has been away till after supper time. “Jerome, he been gone.” That could mean Jerome skipped town last month, and he hasn’t been back for awhile. However, if one said “Oh Jerome, he been long gone.” that would mean Jerome left town several years ago and one had not heard hide nor hair of him since. Hope this helps.
    Black males also move around in a way that is bizare and threatening and meant to be intimidating. It is meant to terrify squares. It also encourages police, security guards, and rednecks to rough them up and incarcerate them for the benefit of the rest of the law-abiding citizens. A further thing one will notice is that black males rarely use sentences with more than about 5 words just as low class white males don’t use sentences with more than about 10 words. That is due to their lacking the verbal reasoning ability and the short-term memory to be able to process, create, and understand utterances of greater syntical complexity or length. A negro male almost never uses subordinate clauses. His communciations are close to the level of an animal consisting of menacing hostile glares, bizare and threatening arm and leg movements that accompany his slouching gate or venomous swagger, incomprehensible grunts, and short choppy sentences almost always concrete in content and in the indicative mood with little in the way of qualifying phrases. A negro male often speaks in the following way “Yo, what yo want muzzah -fukkah. Yo betta shut de fuk up before I bust a cap in yo ass, muzzah-fuckah. (I know that is long but the can muster that to express hostility, especially threats.) We’s goin down to cut some records. Yeah.” Consider this a brief lesson in the dialect of the American Negro, his creole and ebonics. Peace. Out, fool.”

  270. messianicdruid August 25, 2010 at 10:06 pm #

    “We all know we’re locked onboard the holed and listing OECD Titanic….. so why kid ourselves anything different? The course is set, with the inevitable fatal sinking (a no brainer)…. and once more there is no rescue ship off the horizon… Now what?”
    Find something to use as an icepik and swim to that ‘burg.

  271. messianicdruid August 25, 2010 at 10:11 pm #

    “…that has a hell in high waters chance of doing any real ROI.”
    Forget ROI, what you want now, all you can reasonably expect, is preservation. Gold is a sapling, silver is an acorn.”

  272. Qshtik August 25, 2010 at 10:12 pm #

    I’m always amazed at what a pedantic twit you are, Qshtik.
    The amazement should have worn off by now. I’ve been up to this sort of thing at CFN for more than a year.
    You’re “especial” Turk and I just wanted you to know that your linguistic puffery had not gone unnoticed.

  273. progressorconserve August 25, 2010 at 10:44 pm #

    Myrtlemay, Alexandra, and others,
    That was quite well written, Alexandra, although chilling. As far as pedantic goes – I keep looking for that feminine power, as I’ve mentioned. You may find it, sometimes, in non-linear posts.
    As for me, I keep plugging along, usually in linear fashion, maybe pedantic – but telling the occasional anecdote.
    For example, and referencing sunlight and skin color. I’m think there may? be? genes that are associated with sun survival and exposure.
    I used to supervise groups working outdoors. In the 80’s, I could usually keep everyone, black or white, working pretty well all day – outdoors sweating in the hot Southern sunshine.
    But when we took a break for lunch or whatever, the black guys would always find the coolest deepest spot of shade they could and stay there until the last possible second.
    Meanwhile, the whitest white guys would pull off their shirts and start working on their tans – during the break.
    I’m fairly darkly complected, for a white boy, and I never quite understood why those pale Aryan types liked that Sunshine quite so much.

  274. bossier22 August 25, 2010 at 10:44 pm #

    turkle i never considered that i wouldn’t be around in a couple of hundred yrs. thanks for putting it in perspective. i got a good chuckle. it seems to me our own culture and ethics has slid in my lifetime coinsiding with multiculturalism and diversity on the left, along with greed and globalism on the right. i do think that before the demographic change started after 1965 the U.S. was much more than the sum of its parts. now it is considerably less. while i may be dead. i do worry about the world my kids and grandkids will live in.

  275. JD Moore August 25, 2010 at 11:02 pm #

    I went to Hebron! Even more Nowhere than Nowhere! Any farther away from Saratoga Springs and one would be in Another World: the slate quarry towns of Granville and Pawlet, Vermont. The slate quarries are all full of water, the towns rather moribund. Granville has a few walkable areas. At least there are working farms in the few flats one can find around there; it is better than West Virginia (no flats there) or the Boston area where I live (way too few farms left to support the population). The farmers gallantly hang on with the Farmers’ Markets here. Heaven forbid that the Long Emergency goes down hard and people have to make it with market gardens, a couple chickens in their apartments, and cutting down the street trees for firewood. I also went the other direction: Ballston Spa seems in rather good shape, most old downtown buildings intact, definitely walkable area, farms close at hand. Went out to Corinth, and starts looking more like the apocalypse. But, go to Amsterdam (visited a couple weeks earlier) and there is The Decline of American Industry in full regalia. Got some pix of the old carpet mill there. How long would it take to get American industry going once cheap oil is gone and the American Consumer has to buy locally made goods again, and at what cost?

  276. San Jose Mom 51 August 25, 2010 at 11:47 pm #

    Suntanning in the 1980’s….I guess that was before big warnings about melanoma and the like.
    My whole family is blonde. I’ve grounded my kids (3 days indoors) when they’ve come home with a sunburn.

  277. progressorconserve August 25, 2010 at 11:57 pm #

    Concerning Tatts
    I’m not sure why JHK is so fascinated by tattoos, but his fascination transfers onto this discussion thread from time to time.
    Me, I think one’s view of tattoos is colored by generation and social class.
    The worst tattoo I have ever seen was on the back of the neck of a 20-something kid I followed into a gas station in south Georgia. It was in “jailhouse” style and consisted of two simple words, “FUCK YOU”
    How do you carry a thing like that through life with you?? Personally, I’d always be waiting for some mean SOB to split my head open or break my neck from behind, if that were my message to the World behind me. I sure wouldn’t want to drop the soap in the shower. 😉
    Tatt’s don’t bother me unless they are egregious or obscene, even though I’m mid-fifties and at least middle class.
    My wife was talking about getting one because it kept coming up with the 30-40 year old group of girls she hangs out with.
    My response was going to be a small tattoo on my butt that said, “If found, return to _____” with the blank filled in with her first name.
    We have a pretty open relationship, without a whole lot of jealousy, you see.
    We both *wisely* decided to drop the tattoo thing before either of us took action on it.
    Maybe when we hit our 80’s we’ll think about it again??
    And SJ, I think being blond returns zero sun sense. My wife is blond; she still spends more time in the sun than I do. (“But I’m wearing sunblock, she says. ;0) )
    My blond son is 27 now, we harassed him his whole life about sunblock etc. He still lets himself burn all the time. He’s just missing a gene for sun intelligence, or something. 🙂

  278. treebeardsuncle August 26, 2010 at 12:19 am #

    Well the article alluded to above showed that having dark skin reduced the chance of getting skin cancer, helped prevent sun burns, and helped prevent the breakdown of folic acid and associated dna precursors. Fair skin provided some protection against getting rickets. Also having dark skin was associated with higher incidences of prostate cancer, cardio-vascular disease, and diabetes.

  279. Qshtik August 26, 2010 at 1:01 am #

    the proverbial rat’s hottentot
    A rat’s hottentot? Never heard that expression in my life yet you say it’s proverbial? Please cite references. Perhaps you think you’ll be struck by lightning if you type the word ass?

  280. Tim Foster August 26, 2010 at 1:08 am #

    C’mon Jim, most locals don’t eat clam strips. And then, cocktail sauce? We usually eat fried clams with tartar sauce. You should have tried a Ship YAAAAAD ale while in Maine. You missed a lot of local culture I think. Did you talk to any locals? Anyway, your piece is very amusing as usual.

  281. Eleuthero August 26, 2010 at 3:22 am #

    I’ve noticed quite a few posts about
    sunlight, skin color, and so on. The
    data about melanoma can be very, very
    While there is no doubt that chronic
    sunburns, especially on fair-skinned
    and/or heavily-moled people, lead to
    a sharp increase in incidences of
    melanoma. However, the paradox of
    melanoma is that there is also a
    correlation between NO exposure to
    sunlight and melanoma, to wit the
    very high rates of melanoma in Britain
    … a cloudy place.
    Turns out that sunlight is like BOOZE
    … a small amount per day is much
    better than none at all!! Check it
    out … don’t take my word for it.

  282. JD Moore August 26, 2010 at 9:01 am #

    An additional note: I’m speculating the author was looking for how ugly some parts of America have become with crackerboxes farther and farther out of the cities that exist only because the owner is willing to drive to the next state for a paycheck. As for that part of NH, he was in, it reminded me of a time I west with an artist friend down the old road, US 1, to avoid the NH Turnpike (get your revenue from sucka tourists!). We noticed how UGLY everything was, nary an old (pre-1930) building in sight. The few old ones around were modified beyond belief. Too bad he didn’t see some of the REAL New Hampshire. Go to Keene: the downtown section is eminently walkable, all the highway traffic conveniently shuttled outside of town. I know someone from my high school who bought a corner store in a walkable neighborhood, a few blocks away. He’s had it for well over ten years now. One of the kids is in college now. There was also the time when I was on SR 123: very small towns with some impressive architecture from the early 20th century. Forty years ago, when I was on this road, there were tar-paper shacks everywhere. There are none now. Here and there, I would see the occasional “manufactured home.” Most, even when they still look like vinyl-clad crackerboxes, were an awful lot better than what I would see in the typical trailer park.

  283. welles August 26, 2010 at 9:12 am #

    welles, don’t let ignorant folk get under your skin.
    I am here to confirm everything you say about Brazil. I have traveled all over Brazil from Manaus to Igauzu Falls and it is a GREAT country.
    My favorite place was Curitiba.

    Too ¨fanny¨! I live in Curitiba!

  284. welles August 26, 2010 at 9:32 am #

    Qshtik, you must have quite a collection of nits you´ve picked on this forum, I´d say you´re almost a Nit Wit.
    I remarked that in lieu of paying taxes I ¨preferred to help my own family¨, i.e. I used the money to take care of those I´m responsible for, instead of sending it in to a bottomless pit of Waste & State Malfeasance.
    What´s so elusive re understanding this remark?
    Now go away (actually you´re the perfect foil so stay anyway).
    Come on down to Curitiba here in Brazil, I´ll buy you a beer & we´ll have a grand ol´ Tyme.
    Peace my bruthu.
    PS Asoka you said you liked Curitiba the best of all, that´s where I live.

  285. CynicalOne August 26, 2010 at 9:49 am #

    “However, the paradox of
    melanoma is that there is also a
    correlation between NO exposure to
    sunlight and melanoma, to wit the
    very high rates of melanoma in Britain
    … a cloudy place.”
    Yep. Likely Vit. D deficiency.

  286. Riparchivist August 26, 2010 at 9:49 am #

    Sad news. I lived in Newton during my high school years (1967-1970) while the Maytag Company still employed much of the town. The big deal then was that Newton was too small to get a McDonalds but did manage a Hardees (or some other smaller scale joint.) I don’t remember people being any bigger than any other place I had previously lived (much whiter though) but I suppose things changed helped by the movement of Maytag from the town. Food pantries tend to focus on pasta and sugared breakfast stuff.

  287. Cash August 26, 2010 at 9:52 am #

    Don’t mention it.

  288. welles August 26, 2010 at 9:55 am #

    Try this in the US & See What Happens
    My buddy here in Curitiba, Brazil, sells little skewers of chicken hearts, and beef, shishkabob-like, for 90 cents each, on the street outside the cantina I hang out at with my significantly beautiful Native Other.
    He has a tiny bar-b-que cart with wheels on it, and attaches a 4-ft smokestack when he wants to advertise the smell further afield. He cooks the meat skewers with charcoal, so there´s smoke.
    There´s a tiny cupboard under the actual grill, where he keeps more skewers with raw meat on them, until he needs to put more on the fire.
    I asked him what he paid in City, State & Federal licensing fees:
    ¨What? What´s that? You don´t pay anything, you just set up and sell.¨
    Me: ¨Don´t you need a permit because of the smoke and raw meat and sanitation etc?¨
    He: ¨Whaaat? No, you don´t need anything. You just sell it if you want to.¨
    I admire the hell out of micro-entrepreneurs like him, he asks for nothing, just to be left alone and sell his wares without interference. Try that in the US & see how many public ¨servants¨ show up.
    STORY TWO. An acquaintance of ours from the cantina came to our apartment the other day & fixed the showerhead. Here in Brazil, water runs into a largish showerhead, where it´s heated by electricity before it exits onto you.
    The guy spent about an hour talking & joking with us as he dithered with the wires & gave his opinion on why we hadn´t been able to fix the problem ourselves.
    After fixing the showerhead to produce hot water, he then changed an electrical socket for us as well.
    We sat & had a beer or two. He charged $11.29. A professional electrician.

  289. The Mook August 26, 2010 at 10:49 am #

    I am very aware that most of these people are not my idea of whom I would want as friends. But just say one bad thing about homos and the replies come flying back. I don’t know what my point is other than I think biker and miltary type tattoos are gotten more to show “membership” rather than for the vanity the tribal and Angelina versions reveal.

  290. envirofrigginmental August 26, 2010 at 10:53 am #

    Larycham, I believe it is JHK’s mission (duty?) to eloquently expose us to his view of the world in all it’s graphic vulgarness. His point is to identify what we have become; a society that doesn’t give a damn about it’s physical environment to the point of proliferating this mess everwhere one goes.
    I don’t think that he doesn’t see the beauty that does exist; he simply abstains from writing about it.

  291. lbendet August 26, 2010 at 10:56 am #

    The Mother of all Traffic Jams
    Last week I wrote: reply to envirofrigginmental:
    I went to China in 1988 and I have difficulty recognizing images of Shanghai or Beijing as they look today. It’s an amazing transfer of wealth from us to them. (I was discussing new CEO of GM Daniel Akerson of the Carlyle group in that post)
    I remember asking someone whether he thought that the average person would driving in the future and he thought the infrastructure couldn’t handle it. He pointed out to me how narrow the road was in town and suggested the roads would have to be rebuilt if they were to be used for mass driving.
    What I didn’t know when I wrote that lst week is that China ws beginning to experience a long term 60 mile traffic jam due to construction of the Beijing Tibet (Rt 110) highway. They are moving 1/3 mile a day and are expected to be tied up in traffic till 9/17 when construction will be finished.
    Wall St Journal: “The mega-jam on the city outskirts comes as officials warn that downtown traffic in Beijing is steadily worsening. State media on Tuesday reported that average driving speeds in the capital could drop below nine miles an hour if residents keep buying at current rates of 2,000 new cars a day.
    At that pace, Beijing will have seven million vehicles by 2015, according to the head of the Beijing Transportation Research Center, and transportation will slow to what it was decades ago when China was known as the Bicycle Kingdom.
    Beijing’s roads now have capacity to handle 6.7 million vehicles—and that is assuming current restrictions stay in place, such as the one requiring private cars to keep off the road for one day a week.”
    for more see:

  292. Cash August 26, 2010 at 11:11 am #

    I agree that race and culture are different things, that the notion of “race” is a dubious one at best. To me a person’s skin colour is relevant in guessing where his ancestors came from.
    The population of sub Saharan Africa is the most genetically diverse of all, neighbouring tribes of Bushmen are more genetically different from one another than white Europeans are from Orientals. So I don’t think it makes much sense to talk about a black “race” because under the superficial cover of dark skin you have way too much genetic differentiation. White Europeans in contrast are the least genetically diverse even if on the surface you have people with varying shades of eye colour and skin tone. Appearances can deceive in other words.
    But I have trouble separating culture from economics because I think they go hand in hand ie how much corruption a society tolerates affects its economic performance. How hard are you going to work if you know without a doubt that the fix is in, that so and so will get the deal or the job because he can pay a bigger bribe or because he’s a relative of the boss man.
    I’ve been around enough to know that Anglo North America tolerates a certain level of fiddling and especially in its securities markets, a whole lot of fiddling as we’ve seen. But also, from my own experience (I’ve got a lot of mileage) IMO this is by and large a meritocracy where individual effort determines where you go.
    Here social and economic status is fluid, my own parents were wretched, impoverished peasants in the old country. One generation later I’m a well off university educated professional (retired).
    There is no way in hell this can happen in most of the world. I think that’s why people come here from all over. The average joe has a fighting chance here. In most of the world the average joe is fucked, he’s going nowhere, he has no chance to better himself and his family. This central fact is a product of our culture, of how we view and treat each other.
    Some will say this culture is a product of our “race”. I don’t think so. I think it’s a product of about three or four thousand years of developments in thinking that came from multiple sources, from multiple cultures ie ancient Israel, the ancient Levant, India, Greece, Rome, the Muslim world, medieval and Renaissance Europe etc.

  293. envirofrigginmental August 26, 2010 at 11:23 am #

    “Sustainability is Not Happening”
    To set the record straight, I never suggested it was.
    There are a lot of dullards in my industry who unfortunately think we can continue on with BAU erecting millions of buildings across the globe, and it’s all OK because they’re “green”.
    In the long term, the best humans can do is reduce our population and attempt to maintain it in balance with the immediate environment. We already have a model for that: most civilizations prior to the industrial revolution. But we don’t know how to reconcile our highly technological world with their “primitive” one. I say we don’t have a choice.
    Further, our enormous misallocation of resources may have permanently arrested our ability to venture out from this planet. Alexandra’s Titanic allegory is, unfortunately, an appropriate one.

  294. Eleuthero August 26, 2010 at 11:25 am #

    I agree that biker and military style
    tattoos are often gotten to show the
    “membership” of which you speak. However,
    I think you would admit that the vast
    majority of tattoo owners are NOT
    bikers or military people.
    Mostly, they’re just young fashion nazis. 🙂 🙂
    They’re yet another group who conforms to
    a mass meme to show what nonconformists
    they are. Yet another example that aside
    from comedy and tragedy we have the huge
    category of FARCE.
    Indeed, I think a lot of readers of this
    site who really take Jim’s zingers like
    “corn pone nazis” seriously don’t appreciate
    that he, too, sees much of modern American
    society as farcical enough to give it a good
    ribbing. It really is so over-the-top
    that if his ribbing wasn’t equally over-the-
    top then he’d be accused of being too
    Just my $0.02.

  295. envirofrigginmental August 26, 2010 at 11:37 am #

    Let’s face it. We’re fucked.
    Cocktails anyone?

  296. trippticket August 26, 2010 at 12:49 pm #

    Nick, that’s great news you pass on about recent Australian elections. More and more people here in the States seem to be talking about voting 3rd party, even if it’s just the Tea Party, but I haven’t seen anything new out of the US electorate just yet. Not sure we’ll catch it in time to matter really.
    But good on the Aussies for making headway! I wonder how much that has to do with Permaculture’s birth there, 30+ years of LandCare, and an increasingly erratic environment that has a bad habit of waking people up from time to time.
    I thought this oil spill in the Gulf was going to change some minds, but I think Nature’s going to have to do better to unglue the general populace from the boobtube.
    Thanks for the update!!

  297. trippticket August 26, 2010 at 1:12 pm #

    “White Europeans in contrast are the least genetically diverse even if on the surface you have people with varying shades of eye colour and skin tone.”
    Cash, I’m on my third Jared Diamond book of the year. It’s called “The Third Chimpanzee”. And in the opening chapter it establishes that humans are a closer genetic cousin to chimps than gorillas are to either one, and that, by convention, we should rename both species of chimp from the genus Pan to Homo, that they are in fact more closely related to us than the 2 species of gibbons we have lumped into the genus Hylobates are to each other. To offer a simple scientific measure of just how identical we are, our primary hemoglobin is identical to the primary hemoglobin of both chimp species in 287 different molecular markers. I.E. the previous sentence beats creationism over the head in 287 different ways.
    But where the book really gets interesting is when he starts talking about how races evolved. There seems to be, on average and over a wide range, a tendency for dark-skinned people to inhabit tropical latitudes. But it is very imperfect, and no one is really sure why. Aside from that there is almost no rhyme or reason to physical differences all over the globe.
    His argument basically comes down to the mechanism of sexual selection, with almost no natural selection involved. Pygmies find pygmies attractive and make more pygmies. Swedes find Swedes attractive and select for their particular favored look in their choice of mates too. Apparently inter-ocular distance and length of middle finger are more important, at least subconsciously, than personality or hair color! Weird creatures we are.
    But the good news is, if you’re a slim, flat-chested, plain-faced brunette, there are men out there who are looking for exactly that! They don’t want Nicole Kidman or Jessica Simpson. And I like that he closes the argument with the idea that, given another 1000 years, there would probably be humans with green hair and red eyes, and that someone out there would think that was the sexiest thing ever!

  298. treebeardsuncle August 26, 2010 at 1:56 pm #

    What you say is true in general, and, in my case, in particular. I had a template in my mind which certain girls matched up too especially in 8th grade on. I am only attracted to slim to mesomorphic white European and European-American females with high foreheads and cheekbones, smooth fair to tan skin, moderate chins, certain nose shapes etc who are around 5 feet to 5 feet 8 inches in height and weigh around 110 to 160 pounds. However within that sub-group I can accept quite a bit of variation particularly in hair length, color and consistency, eye color, and personality as well as a variety of ethnic groups though they do have to come from north of the Alps. Having intelligence and kindness is a must too. Notice that I am attracted to standard qualities of European females who live between around 40 and 60 degrees latitude from Russia through Ireland. I think a lot of guys in European, American and Autralia feel the same way but wouldn’t admit to it or would not be able to verbalize it effectively. Many — especially the lower classes — are more attracted to large boobs, long legs, a well-shaped but, and long full fluffy or sleek blonde hair. The upper classes tend to prefer women of slighter builds, finer features, and smaller butts and tits.
    Trip, if you are Scotts-Irish, you are largely my kind much as you may be loath to admit it. I like the natural environment of the southern Appalachians and Britain and Ireland too.

  299. envirofrigginmental August 26, 2010 at 2:08 pm #

    I am a male who is attracted to burly, masculine, well-endowed, hairy Mediterranean male types. I am of English descent. What does that mean? (And saying I’m a fag doesn’t count.)

  300. turkle August 26, 2010 at 2:29 pm #

    “Further, our enormous misallocation of resources may have permanently arrested our ability to venture out from this planet.”
    You know, the Star Trek fantasies were never going to come true. Even the logistics of colonizing and terraforming a planet like Mars are far beyond us. It wouldn’t really matter how many resources we poured into it.
    Also, we’ll be sending satellites and robots into outer space for a long time. But it isn’t a particularly great place for squishy organisms like us. Robots and electronics do great out there though (e.g. Mars Rovers).
    As for visiting other stars, that was never in the cards in this universe. You’re talking multiple light years of distance, i.e. insurmountable distances even if we had the resources to attempt it.

  301. envirofrigginmental August 26, 2010 at 2:53 pm #

    But back in 1965 (circa Star Trek’s inception) talking to someone on a videophone was part of the fantasy. A mere 40 years later and we can now talk to one another on a video phone.
    I think we have the collective ingenuity to accomplish almost anything. We are only bounded by our available resources and the inanities of our human fallicies and failings. Who is to say that a century or two from now, given careful attention to resources and more than less success at overcoming our stupidities, that we might actually be able to engage in space travel.
    You’re not giving the human race enough credit.

  302. treebeardsuncle August 26, 2010 at 3:22 pm #

    It is insurmountable for us now, but maybe not in a million years or even a thousand.

  303. mila59 August 26, 2010 at 3:34 pm #

    I think that means you would find my older son very attractive… 🙂

  304. mila59 August 26, 2010 at 3:43 pm #

    Private food vendors exist in all big cities, even here in the U.S. They may not be “legal,” but it doesn’t stop them. In my city there is a Latino man (not sure what country he is originally from) who sells empanadas out of a cooler in the back of his car, $1.00 each, at every youth baseball game. They come in beef, chicken, and cheese. Greasy, and yummmmmm. We always buy them.

  305. envirofrigginmental August 26, 2010 at 3:48 pm #

    Gee mila59! Who knew? I can even get a date on this site! 😉

  306. turkle August 26, 2010 at 3:52 pm #

    We already do have space travel. We just can’t space travel over 2+ light years, and we’ll never be able to it. I’ll bet you on it.

  307. envirofrigginmental August 26, 2010 at 4:50 pm #

    My understanding of current physics is far too minute to debate you on the logistics of space travel for humans. And I would agree that machines would fare much better in space travel, but to assume we have discovered everything there is to know about the universe at this juncture in time is arrogant at worst and short sighted at best.
    If we don’t manage to completely implode over the next couple decades, would you not agree that discoveries of the Einstein variety are still possible? Or have we reached the zenith of discovery?

  308. progressorconserve August 26, 2010 at 4:53 pm #

    There is no *practical purpose* to be served by traveling beyond the asteroid belt. Beyond that, space is truly a big, black nothing, with respect to supporting human life.
    Self-sustaining colonies of humans might eventually be capable of travel outside the solar system. But, truly, what would be the purpose? 4.3 light years to Proxima Centauri so some human descendant can say, “Wow, what a pretty star up close! Now, let’s head back to Earth!”
    Maybe “lifeboat” colonies in near Earth orbit or on the Moon could aid species survival. That sounds like something the Chinese will probably be doing in the next couple of decades – using the money and technology of the US as a springboard – if their civilization makes it a couple of more decades.

  309. envirofrigginmental August 26, 2010 at 5:01 pm #

    If this isn’t a tell-tale sign that the US has unfortunately seen it’s day and the party is over, watch the video. I’m not aware of anything even remotely this elaborate being built or proposed in the US.

  310. progressorconserve August 26, 2010 at 5:01 pm #

    I am very sure if we could disband both parties and the Party based primary system governance would improve.
    All the saints and sinners seeking public office could compete in a general election with a runoff
    to follow if necessary.
    I can’t see any negatives to this proposal, except for TPTB.
    Anybody see a negative that I’m overlooking.

  311. progressorconserve August 26, 2010 at 5:02 pm #


  312. asia August 26, 2010 at 5:17 pm #

    ‘How many people die by gun violence in the US in one year?’
    rough guess:
    10,00 to 20,000..and many of those killed are killed by immigrants and illegals

  313. asia August 26, 2010 at 5:21 pm #

    ‘What does that mean’….hairy = masculine in your eyes/ mind.

  314. asia August 26, 2010 at 5:27 pm #

    ‘Europe had two gigantic internal wars in the 20th century that killed millions of people, not to mention centuries of conflict based on religious differences and nationalism’
    and what of Mao,PolPot, Africa today????
    are they somehow different?

  315. asia August 26, 2010 at 5:28 pm #

    ‘She looked normal’
    theres no accounting for [ bad ] taste and LIFES FULLA SURPRISES!!!!

  316. ctemple August 26, 2010 at 6:16 pm #

    These last four comments were pretty good, it usually takes you about five words to say treebeardsuncle says in 15 hundred words.

  317. ctemple August 26, 2010 at 6:20 pm #

    These last four comments were pretty good, it usually takes you about five words to say treebeardsuncle says in 15 hundred words.

  318. ctemple August 26, 2010 at 6:21 pm #

    I hit the fucking submit button twice sorry

  319. Vlad Krandz August 26, 2010 at 7:55 pm #

    I heard a man (you) say “I’ve made my peace with the Black Man”. But you didn’t ask the logical next question, “Has he made my peace with me?” Liberals never do because Liberalism is an altered state of consciousness. They (you) are literally intoxicated. And like all intoxicated people they think that everyone else is in the same state. Every drunk thinks that other people love them and are enjoying their antics – even when a pissed off muscle man is getting ready to put their light out. To his credit Turkel asked the question, but he got the wrong answer. The Blacks have not forgiven us. Neither have the Mexicans. Neither have the Muslims. Rather a world culture is developing in which Whites are the scapegoat. Asoka is a spokesman for this paradigm. Things are getting worse. Do you really believe the Arabs will ever forgive the Jews for what they have done in Palestine?

  320. treebeardsuncle August 26, 2010 at 8:03 pm #

    Those who forgive are often knocked off by those who have not. Anyway, not everyone puts the accumulation of wealth — or more exactly the conversion of the biosphere into garbage and pollution through the manipulation of money for their own status seeking, advancement, and acquisitiveness — as the greatest goal. Some are motivated by religion, others by revenge, some by familial concerns, and a few by more abstract matters. I see religion as more a matter of social organization than as a purely abstract concern.

  321. Vlad Krandz August 26, 2010 at 8:05 pm #

    Rome became multi-racial and cultural towards its end. As did Ancient Egypt. These things happen to decaying Empires and Countries. The Austro-Hungarian Empire also – all White but a dozen different ethnicities each wanting their own state. It didn’t work just like it didn’t work in Yugoslavia and just like it wont work in America. We learned nothing from the Civil War since we have just imported another Nation into borders: the Mexicans. And for what? All for cheap labor, the thing that Whites can seem to get beyond. We refuse to pay our people a living wage, and for that we are about to become history.
    Anyway, back to the original point. China and Japan have lasted thousands of years and could last thousands more. As long as they keep their bloodlines pure. Egypt is still there, but no one sees any continuity between modern and ancient Egypt. They are a different people and a different culture. Geography is not nationality. The Indians were not the first Americans, we were.
    Now there can be some genetic diversity. The Chinese Philosopher Lin Yutang felt China benefitted from the infusion of warrior blood from the Mongols and the Manchus. But their genotypes were close to the Han to begin with. China would not benefit from millions of Congolese marrying their women. If you think so, you are ridiculous.

  322. Vlad Krandz August 26, 2010 at 8:15 pm #

    You are living off the work of the Godly and godlike founders of Brazil but not sustaining their work. Thus Brazil is doomed since their work cannot be sustained by non Whites. Your’s is the life of a lotus eater. No offence. Remember, Man is something to be surpassed. What have you done to surpass Man? Thus did our Master Friedrich teach us to philosophize with a hammer. As I freeze in Idaho, I will pray for you. And please remember me when you are fucking one of the biracial lovelies. Thus you will share in my penance and I in your pleasure.

  323. treebeardsuncle August 26, 2010 at 8:36 pm #

    So how does an economy function without growth? I think the answer will involve a major redistribution of wealth, reduced investment, and a change in living arrangements.

  324. myrtlemay August 26, 2010 at 8:36 pm #

    Holy mackeral, what a crock. (Sorry Q! HOLY SHIT! What a fucked up thing to say and think!)

  325. treebeardsuncle August 26, 2010 at 9:06 pm #

    Some have said — including themselves — that the first true Americans were the Scotts Irish (See http://www.newbedfordshire.com and Born Fighting etc.). They were Scotts from the border regions who moved to Ulster mostly in the 15th – early 17th centuries and settled in about 5 waves mostly in the Appalachians from around 1707 – 1775. It was they who gave the South much of its culture and along with other Scotts its accent. Unlike other folks along the Atlantic seaboard who saw themselves as Puritans, or Virginia royalists, Quakers, or various Englishmen in America or as Ductch, Swedes, Germans etc, as they the Scotts-Irish were not really from anywhere and had no allegience beyond that to themselves and sometimes their family and to some extent to their clans, they identified with the new land and readily adopated the appellation of Americans.
    I am looking forward to seeing America go down culturally and political due to the people’s unwillingness to pay a living wage and for other reasons. However, most other folks don’t pay much either including those lovely Brazilians who are ruled by folks of Portuguese background even now.

  326. Qshtik August 26, 2010 at 9:57 pm #

    What a fucked up thing to say and think!)
    Help us out Myrtle. To which/whose comment are you replying? Date and time. Ya think we’re friggin mind readers?

  327. progressorconserve August 26, 2010 at 10:17 pm #

    I don’t know what is wrong with US society, as we seem to be heading to the bottom in almost every area of importance. But I don’t need theories of White Racial Superiority to explain it.
    And when I hear from Cash in Canada, Femme in
    Australia, and various visitors from the UK – Countries with much less reason for racial tension than the US – I see that the US is in “good” company as we head downwards.
    I’ve said before that Western Civilization seems to be committing “Karmic Suicide.”
    If my whole culture is committing suicide, who am I to fight against it by myself. If you want to fight this fight, Vlad, have at it. Just realize that your *racial talk* can harm real people.
    I grew up in the segregated South, then changed with the times as the country changed. We can’t roll back the clock, dude.
    And yeah, I’ve “made my peace with the black man,” as you put it. There is as much honor and nobility in Blacks as there is in Whites.
    There is as much tendency to violence and degradation in Blacks as there is in Whites.
    I think your racial theories are born of fear, in the final analysis.
    Screw it, Vlad, I face the future in my South without fear. And I’ll die before I force someone born in Southern culture – whether black or white- to emigrate against his will.
    Notice I said that my CULTURE is committing karmic suicide – not my race. This is why I think most legal and all illegal immigration needs to be stopped. Because where I am in the South, I could see a third world CULTURE take hold in just one or two more generations.
    And there is nothing good about that, for my family, my country, or my planet.
    I can never achieve your level of paranoia, to think my culture is dying only because blacks and browns “have not made their peace with me.”
    God, this is depressing.

  328. Qshtik August 26, 2010 at 10:35 pm #

    Come on Tree, use that high IQ. You’re getting sloppy.
    . Ductch
    . adopated
    . 1707 – 1775 is the 18th, not 17th century
    And, BTW, where do you get the idea you have to be low class to like big boobs? I love big boobs, the bigger the better … topped off with a big set of chilled nipples standing at attention like soldiers. I want my voice to echo in the cleavage and when I die I hope it’s from suffocation in an enormous pair of tits (@ )( @) ;o)

  329. Qshtik August 26, 2010 at 10:40 pm #

    (@ )( @)

  330. mika. August 26, 2010 at 10:52 pm #

    I don’t know what is wrong with US society
    I do know. And I’m not the only one who thinks this:
    National Suicide – http://goo.gl/QYW9

  331. progressorconserve August 26, 2010 at 11:14 pm #

    Very good website, MIKA. I’ve seen you go completely *off the deep end* over some stuff on CFN, but
    Everybody on here should take a look.
    Here’s an excerpt:

    “The main cause of depression is simple: it’s cognitive dissonance. That’s a fancy way of saying, you have two ideas that don’t mesh and are at war with each other. It’s a way of saying, you’ve swallowed a lie or a pack of lies, and they’re poisoning you from within.”
    “….but the real problems began with Reagan after Vietnam. We had a choice under Carter: would we face up to our limitations of failing oil and shrinking importance and become a smaller, humbler country, the spunky underdog of Mickey Mouse, a nation of “aw-shucks” stay-at-home farm-boys? That was the path of the 60s, back-to-the-land, hippie guitar-playing with your friends by the wood stove, of Carter in the sweater, solar panels on the White House. The American Reality: oil was declining. We’d have to work hard as ever, play nice and get nothing from it but to claim our own souls as men.
    Or were we going to live the American Dream? The Big America. The leader of the Free world. The greatest might and right ever known, the John Wayne of nations, going to kick ass and take names Pilgrim, the world’s sole hyperpower. We could have it all: the new house, the new car, the fancy retirement, eat and flush 25% of the world’s resources, and what’s more, all for no money down, no work! Which would you choose? The reality, or the dream? Work? Or play? Eternal Sunshine? Or the Endless Hardship?
    And we know how that went. American Reality was bounced out on its ear in favor of a glorious new “Morning in America.” A year later, Nancy Reagan started the War on Drugs,…..”

  332. Kiwi Nick August 26, 2010 at 11:39 pm #

    (minor parties, Aus & US election systems)
    One of the problems in the US is the huge amount of money required to run an election campaign. It tends to shut out the minor parties. There’s a lot less cost in Australia.
    And in New Zealand, there’s some rule limiting candidates to $5000 campaign expenditure, and it has to be all declared (even if it all came from your own pocket). I think the parties can spend a bit more, and it’s subsidised if they get enough votes.
    I think there’s some rules in Australia about declaring large donations.
    Mind you, the internet is a good leveller (because it’s so cheap). For example: you and I can find out all there is to know about the Australian Sex Party. If the US minor parties play their internet cards right, they might edge into US politics.

  333. Laura Louzader August 27, 2010 at 12:12 am #

    To those who talk of space travel and “colonizing” or establishing “life boat” communities on other worlds: it won’t work, not ever.
    Try going to another place on Earth where the vegetables are exotic to you, or the altitude is completely different, and see how long your body takes to adapt. There is no chance that something as complex as a mammal, especially a human, an incredibly complex and highly evolved life form that evolved to live in Earth’s environment, is going to adapt to a different atmosphere, exotic proteins and enzymes, or a subtly different gravitational field, or sunlight with a different wavelength. Even tiny, almost unmeasurable differences could make a place nonsurvivable.
    The only sense I ever saw to space travel was to get out to the mineral-rich planets in our own solar system and set up robotic mining camps to get at the hydrocarbons on Triton, or the deuterium on Mars.This operation would have be supervised by human personnel who would of course have to live in extremely well controlled artificial environments, and change every few months, because even with all the tech assist in the world, living in space, or on a planet with totally different physical conditions, would be very stressful.
    And this would require prodigious quantities of energy and a much higher level of tech development than we have.
    But LIVE out there? Colonize some strange planet? Never. Strictly for science fiction novels.

  334. treebeardsuncle August 27, 2010 at 12:22 am #

    Fine, folks, I will be the first to tell you cowards and show that NOTHING will happen to anyone:
    It is time for America, the US of A to be disbanded as it is more of a problem than it is worth. It is time for it to be divided up, for various subunits to secede. Most of all would like to have the corporations status as persons before the law revoked.
    Sacramento, CA
    mika. replied to comment from progressorconserve | August 26, 2010 10:52 PM | Reply
    I don’t know what is wrong with US society
    I do know. And I’m not the only one who thinks this:
    National Suicide – http://goo.gl/QYW9

  335. welles August 27, 2010 at 7:42 am #

    Appreciate the advice!

  336. welles August 27, 2010 at 7:50 am #

    Oh Vlad, I forgot to mention that I lived in Iceland for a decade, it’s the whitest ville on earth I think. You’d like it there, no odiferous colored folk, and the level of education is astounding.
    Language is seriously inflected, it’s actually Old Norse, if you speak it, you can read the Icelandic sagas in the original. Those are the sagas that Wagner/Nietzsche based their works on, far as I understand.

  337. mila59 August 27, 2010 at 9:21 am #

    Here here. Lots of people agree about that. I’d like to see New England join the Canadian Maritimes. Or we could split up the way it was (jokingly) suggested after the re-election of GWB — United States of Canada (Canada, New England, NY, Chicago, northwest coast) and Jesusland (everything else!).

  338. mila59 August 27, 2010 at 9:30 am #

    ASIA: Please elucidate. Where on earth do you get the idea that the majority of (yearly) gun violence in the United States is committed by “immigrants and illegals”?

  339. mila59 August 27, 2010 at 9:49 am #

    Whoops. That should have been “Hear, hear.” Sorry, Q !!!

  340. Qshtik August 27, 2010 at 9:51 am #

    the idea that the majority of (yearly) gun violence
    Mila, he said many not the majority.

  341. ozone August 27, 2010 at 10:47 am #

    I just watched, “The Age of Stupid” last night.
    It also speaks to the suicide meme (due to climatic catastrophe, in the end), and the cult of consumerism. THERE’S your “culture” for ya (as it turns out), and it includes a heapin’ helpin’ of cognitive dissonance.
    Chilling and infuriating.
    I suppose the best we can hope for is the asshats killing each other before they kill off the Earth.
    (Or perhaps a natural/unnatural plague somehow unleashed.)
    I’m not seeing much hope for our grandkids otherwise. This is the world-changing era. All other human events pale (aside from the “bottleneck” near-extinction deal that drained our genetic pool down to a tiny puddle). Will the kids have the [huge] courage to continue the human experiment? Is it too late by virtue of self-reinforcing, positive feedback loops?

  342. Qshtik August 27, 2010 at 10:49 am #

    Off topic.
    Can’t help myself.
    Another word I’m noticing more and more being misused (including here at CFN).
    Read this headline from TheStreet.com:
    Karen Finerman and other panelists described HP’s latest bid for 3Par as incredulous.
    It makes my skin crawl. I want to tear my hair out.
    A bid can be incredible but it can’t be incredulous! Only people can be incredulous!
    A suggestion for TheStreet.com:
    “Panelists were incredulous at HP’s latest incredible bid for 3Par.

  343. mila59 August 27, 2010 at 10:54 am #

    ASIA: Can you cite statistics or other information to support your statement that “many” of those perpetrating gun violence in the U.S. are “illegals and immigrants.” Thanks!

  344. Qshtik August 27, 2010 at 10:55 am #


  345. mila59 August 27, 2010 at 10:56 am #

    Q: Thanks! Think I’m always half asleep these days. 🙁
    I may not agree with you on much…but I REALLY appreciate your grammar policing. Literacy…is so underrated nowadays!

  346. progressorconserve August 27, 2010 at 11:14 am #

    Are you somehow suggesting that ONE SINGLE act of gun violence (or fatality DUI, or whatever) by an illegal immigrant is somehow acceptable in the US?
    Please clarify.

  347. ozone August 27, 2010 at 11:16 am #

    Perhaps TheStreet’s “command” of the English language is indicative of the level of their expertise? ;o)

  348. RAW August 27, 2010 at 11:17 am #

    JHK’s observations only verify what has been known for years; America is a Second-Rate Nation. http://www.amazon.com/Second-Rate-Nation-American-Dream-Myth/dp/1594510911

  349. ozone August 27, 2010 at 11:19 am #

    …and “fact-checking”… and “research”… and “raison d’etre”. ;o)
    Sorry, couldn’t resist. :o)

  350. progressorconserve August 27, 2010 at 11:25 am #

    I’ll try to look for that – is it Cable, TV, or what?
    I just watched, “The Age of Stupid” last night.
    It also speaks to the suicide meme (due to climatic catastrophe, in the end), and the cult of consumerism. THERE’S your “culture” for ya (as it turns out), and it includes a heapin’ helpin’ of cognitive dissonance.
    Chilling and infuriating
    And that’s not my damn culture, speaking of consumerism.
    I can (BARELY) remember a better day in the US, before the Regan Revolution helped to propel consumerism straight through the ceiling.
    And I cannot be the only poster on here who remembers the whole ZERO POPULATION GROWTH thing in the late 70’s. I know it affected me deeply.
    My wife and I had only two kids, as recommended, to “only replace” ourselves – and sometimes we felt a little guilty about that.
    The Chinese believed it, too – consider the “one child policy.”
    Yet who knew the rest of the (non first World and non Chinese World) was gonna have more than enough kids to ruin the planet anyways?????

  351. progressorconserve August 27, 2010 at 11:34 am #

    And who knew the JACKASSES in charge of US immigration policy were going to let 10’s of millions of those extra “kids” into the US so they could HELP US RAPACIOUSLY CONSUME AND STEAL resources from the rest of the world.
    If I seem a little short tempered it’s because I’m 1/2 way into repairing an old bush hog. And the sun got up on my workspace and it got too hot to work.
    And the job wasn’t going all that well, anyway.
    I decided to come in here and YELL at CFN a little.
    It was either that – or take a 8 pound sledgehammer and randomly beat on that old bush hog. And it already old and BATTERED! Maybe we’ll fry it up with some home grown veggies tonight – in a wok. 😉
    I feel better now. Thank you!

  352. mila59 August 27, 2010 at 11:51 am #

    PROGRESS: To respond to your question:
    “Are you somehow suggesting that ONE SINGLE act of gun violence (or fatality DUI, or whatever) by an illegal immigrant is somehow acceptable in the US?”
    I hope no sensible person would condone any SINGLE act of gun violence, or fatality DUI, or knifing, or murder by other means, etc. I didn’t mean to imply in any way that I condone violence of any nature (and that includes our “wars”). What I am interested in is the factual basis for the assertion that “many” of the gun fatalities in the U.S. on a yearly basis are committed by illegal and legal immigrants. Then I would want to know how many were committed by illegals, and how many were committed by legal immigrants. Goodness, if we’re hating on immigrants of all stripes nowadays, where would that have put my maternal grandparents and paternal great-grandparents? They were legal immigrants from Slovenia (1912) and from Germany (1880s and 1890s). I have to admit I’m baffled by your stance on immigration, and I assume I’ve missed something in the long discussions on CFN so that there’s no doubt some explanation of which I am unaware at the moment.

  353. asoka August 27, 2010 at 12:39 pm #

    mila59, thanks for your comments. Unfortunately, rational discourse on CFN is difficult to achieve when it comes to immigrants.
    I have posted a lot of evidence in the past that immigrants are NET CONTRIBUTORS to our economy.
    I have posted crime statistics showing as the number of illegal immigrants increased the crime rate went down.
    I have posted history showing that this country was founded by immigrants and built by immigrants.
    But facts are not driving the debate.
    People like ProgressorConserve think their lives or their grandchildren’s lives are somehow being threatened by “illegal immigrants” and they seem to need someone to attack. They want to slam the door shut to immigration, after their family made it into the USA.
    It is a completely un-American stance, a hateful stance, but racism and xenophobia, justified by arguments from “population biology” is what prevails on CFN.

  354. mila59 August 27, 2010 at 12:50 pm #

    Thank you Asoka. It’s a disquieting theme running through CFN, and it seems unlikely that JHK buys into it…although since he does not comment on the comments (as it were) one doesn’t know for sure. I’m interested to hear what Progressorconserve has to say. If this is strictly xenophobic, reactionary stuff, then perhaps it’s time to close up shop and find another site. BTW, I have children (almost grown…) and we live in a working-class (mixed ethnicity) neighborhood of a city with loads of immigrants, and don’t feel at all threatened by anyone in particular. But you can see where some of this is probably coming from — in economic downturns, folks have traditionally sought a scapegoat. And there it is.

  355. messianicdruid August 27, 2010 at 12:59 pm #

    “I was traveling from Chicago to Kansas City. I stopped in Newton Iowa for lunch.”
    Did you make it to the State Fair?
    “I suppose the best we can hope for is the asshats killing each other before they kill off the Earth.”
    I can imagine some elitist mattoids sitting around saying the same thing. Even instigating it.

  356. progressorconserve August 27, 2010 at 1:05 pm #

    JHK’s blog approximately six weeks ago
    was an excellent manifesto for (maybe, just maybe, if it is not already too late) saving Planet Earth.
    JHK’s views in that blog agree with mine – drastically reduce legal and completely eliminate illegal immigration to the US.
    I agree that illegal immigrants are NET CONTRIBUTORS to the US economy – except the US economy is already too big and destroys too much of the Planet’s resources.
    And I have explained that one reason crime goes down in high illegal immigrant areas is because these areas try to avoid dealing with law enforcement or “ratting out” one another.
    The ability of American society to acculturate new Mexican immigrants has already been exceeded in many areas.
    Immigration was fine when the country was spacious and World ecosystems were *unthreatened.*
    “Cognitive dissonance” is an overused term on CFN. However, the liberal/progressive community in the US is suffering from it with respect to protecting the environment AND encouraging immigration. WE can have one or the other, BUT NOT BOTH.
    I think the Planet is more important. Asoka thinks uncontrolled immigration is more important.
    We need to air it out on here. Asoka, try to let some other posters “get a word in edgeways,” please.

  357. Pepper Spray August 27, 2010 at 1:07 pm #

    The fact is that economic stresses are increasing for the rest of us and hungry people tend to desperate acts. it’s a good time to consider personal security. http://www.stungunstopepperspray.com/news-blog

  358. myrtlemay August 27, 2010 at 1:10 pm #

    The reason many, including I, are pissed off about illegal immigration is that it is bleeding the American taxpayers white (black folk included, Asocka). When our government allows unfettered access to our country’s educational system, health care, etc., it causes services to go way up, as well as the costs. Nobody (okay, maybe a few) is advocating a zero sum immigration policy, but why is our military patroling Pakistan’s borders and not our own border with Mexico? Why is it that American citizens can’t move to Mexico and set up housekeeping and yet Mexicans are free to do this at will? Clearly there is a double standard here. The fact of the matter is, all countries with high living standards STRICTLY control their borders! Many years ago I worked in Australia and fell in love with the country and its people. I was told that I had a snowball’s chance in hell of getting immigration papers unless I married a citizen (no takers, unfortunately). The U.S. government allows illegal immigration and even ENCOURAGES it, because it drives down labor costs (see Mika’s comments about who really OWNS America). This is the problem with the United States and TPTB today. Short-sightedness all in the name of making a buck and screwing the living daylights out of what’s left of the middle class. So, go ahead and join hands and sing, Koombayah, all you want. The fact of the matter is that in this country our resources are going dry. TPTB are pressing the foot down on the accelerator as they drive the gas guzzler over the cliff (ala Thelma and Louise).

  359. asia August 27, 2010 at 1:10 pm #

    turk = arrogant intolerant ‘ liberal’

  360. asia August 27, 2010 at 1:14 pm #

    did i say majority? ive read 3,000 a year in usa killed by illegals [ of 20,000 to 30,000 murders]

  361. asia August 27, 2010 at 1:16 pm #

    ‘see Mika’s comments about who really OWNS America’
    once a island black lady told me :
    since i moved to the usa i learned who owns this place, the jews!

  362. myrtlemay August 27, 2010 at 1:19 pm #

    OUCH! LOL!

  363. asia August 27, 2010 at 1:32 pm #

    Vlad, I learned that haggendaz, ben and jerrys and baskin robbins were all started by jews!
    harmon audio, mattel the list goes on and on!

  364. mika. August 27, 2010 at 1:56 pm #

    The Rockefeller and Morgan clans own the whole fscking circus, including the token Jooos they put on storefront windows for Vladik to wonder in awe of.

  365. RAW August 27, 2010 at 2:06 pm #

    As usual JHK’s comment section has degenerated into drivel.

  366. mila59 August 27, 2010 at 2:13 pm #

    Aha. I was on vacation that week and missed that post. You’re right, JHK is right on target with you, although I don’t think he espouses any of the racist things I’ve read from other posters here.
    Since the depletion of the planet’s resources will keep happening no matter where x number of Mexicans lives, north or south of the border, it hardly seems to matter whether or not we have immigrants, legal or illegal. If that is your fear, simply wrecking Mother Earth — she will be wrecked all over, willy nilly, if we (the whole world) keep on the way we are going.
    All the other shit I’ve read here today about different races controlling this and that is sickening. I’m outta here.
    And Asoka — I haven’t felt at all that you are preventing anyone from getting in “edgewise.” I only saw the one comment from you today. Good luck!

  367. myrtlemay August 27, 2010 at 2:23 pm #

    Apparently Uncle Ben is continuing his tap dance routine aboard the Good Ship Lollipop in Jackson Hole today, by stating that the Fed has many new tricks in its bag to ward off those annoying, nasty little stats hitting the financial pages. Among his many “tools” are the acquisition of additional treasuries, which will help sustain our “recovery”. Note to Uncle Ben: You can’t give an alcoholic a shot of bourbon in the hopes that he’ll “recover”. Of course, Uncle Ben already knows this, but can’t really say it out loud. I mean, saying that we’ve got to reverse course and stop printing money, funding fake wars, and rewarding the outsourcing of middle and working class jobs is tantamount to killing a really awesome, late summer pool party. I wonder why they chose to have the shindig at Jackson Hole, and not, oh, I don’t know, Maui. I mean, if you’re going to throw down with your homies, why not go for the exotic?

  368. asia August 27, 2010 at 2:43 pm #

    you have something more ‘ profound ‘ to offer?

  369. myrtlemay August 27, 2010 at 2:45 pm #

    Speaking of circuses, our illustious former president has rescued an American from serving 8 years of hard labor in North Korea. The American’s crime was crossing into North Korea’s border from China. Borders, Smorders. The big sillies! Why can’t other countries be like America and open the floodgates to everyone? Looks like Carter taught them a lesson-the intolerance and impudence of them!

  370. asia August 27, 2010 at 2:48 pm #

    in so cal i see large ones mostly on white males under age 40.must see it as the butch thing to do . accentuate ‘male ness’
    huge ugly expensive tatts.huge.

  371. asia August 27, 2010 at 2:49 pm #

    If you sell yr place for 30k you could get land in some place where its selling cheap….arkansas or michigan.

  372. myrtlemay August 27, 2010 at 2:50 pm #

    My stars! I meant “illustrious”! Always get into trouble when I use them big, college words!

  373. Cash August 27, 2010 at 3:09 pm #

    Myrtlemay, there’s nary a word that I disagree with especially this business about reciprocity: if Mexicans can cross the border at will and Americans are supposed to be all intellectual and relaxed and tolerant about it then why can’t Americans just cross the border into Mexico and set up housekeeping as you say?
    Our cops in Ottawa just arrested a bunch of would be terrorists of the Muslim persuasion. Now the talking heads are all asking, because this is not the first time, why are these guys not loyal to Canada? Apparently at least one was a medical professional, a graduate of McGill University (our best).
    The answer is that 1) we don’t demand loyalty, in fact we discourage it 2) we import roughly 1 million immigrants into our country every 4 years 3) then we tell the immigrants to not adopt our ways, be loyal to yoour own tribe, ethnicity.
    Then the geniuses that push immigration and multiculturalism wonder why have have these problems.

  374. Cash August 27, 2010 at 3:11 pm #

    Mispelling, should be: be loyal to your own tribe, ethnicity.

  375. mika. August 27, 2010 at 3:38 pm #

    Reality check:
    I was listening to these podcasts by Alan Watt these last few days — very good stuff!

  376. myrtlemay August 27, 2010 at 3:41 pm #

    Regarding the terrorists, scary, but not suprising, Cash! The dirty little secret none of the pro-immigration liberals will tell is: Why doesn’t the U.S. have the same problem with its northern borders as it does with its southern borders? Hmmm, let me see if I can guess…..no, wait, don’t tell me… Oh! I know! Canadians don’t WANT to cross into America because they already HAVE Western Civilization standards. I mean, please forgive me if I’m wrong, but don’t Canadians have really neat things, like indoor plumbing, flush-toilets, paved streets, enclosed houses and apartments, public schools and universities? And, I may be going out on a limb here, but please humor me. Don’t you all have elections which are not privy to overt government corruption? I believe you also have a strong middle class as well. There is also a fairly strong separation of church and state, if I’m not mistaken. Oh, and all of those welfare goodies you guys are always handing out, left and right, are very attractive. Do you mean that mean ole Canada is not willing to open their borders to a few hundred thousand of your American cousins so that we may dine on your hard-earned wages? The very idea!

  377. Cash August 27, 2010 at 3:42 pm #

    Interesting thing this sexual selection. I like Asian chicks, always have and Asian chicks like me. That’s just how the zing and sizzle is.
    I’ve never understood how this works. I’m sort of the burly Mediterranean type that enviro likes. (sorry enviro, I’m straight). You’d think I’d be attracted to Mediterranean/Italian women but I’m not and never have been. And Mediterranean/Italian women don’t like me.
    What do women want. Beats me. I’ve never understood it.
    Wage or anybody else of the better gender: this is an anonymous forum. What do women want? Do they want warriors with jaws of granite and brows like cliffs of alabaster. How is it that a neb like Woody Allen bags a babe like Diane Keaton?

  378. myrtlemay August 27, 2010 at 4:03 pm #

    Let’s see…what do women want in a guy? I’m not exactly in the market anymore, but I’ll take a stab at it. Having a job was always high on my list. Not living with Mother is also a nice plus. Another little nuance that really turns women on is a guy who doesn’t talk about himself or his many toys incessantly. In general, I’ve always successfully avoided the “Barney Rubble” type of guy (no chin, whatsoever, and kinda dumb). Women say they want a guy who isn’t afraid to share his “feelings”, but most of them will seriously walk all over a wuss like that. Women, although they won’t admit it, are attracted to a certain degree of arrogance in males, as well as self confidence. It never hurts if a guy pays a little bit of attention to what a girl is wearing, thinking, doing, either. Looks ARE important. Most women will lie and say they don’t, though. Women can smell desperation a mile away. In short, a bit of poise, intellect, and humor can go a VERY long way to eventually “bagging that babe”! Good luck, and happy hunting!

  379. shecky August 27, 2010 at 4:10 pm #

    Appreciated the essay by Eric Andrews.
    I especially appreciated the notion that we came to a fork in the road (Carter or Reagan), chose the wrong fork, and turned into a nation of fat fucks driving big trucks and believing that we own the rest of the world. Reagan was a disaster on every level. America may never recover from his Hollywood bullshit.
    I spit on his memory. He was a shitty actor too. Like John Wayne.

  380. shecky August 27, 2010 at 4:11 pm #

    Chickenhawks too, the both of them. Another plague we suffer to this day.

  381. Cash August 27, 2010 at 4:27 pm #

    I’m not hunting. I’m married (decades). My wife is Chinese, started out slim and pretty, now is slim and beautiful.
    Anyway, this business about looks, arrogance, confidence, having a job etc is what I suspected but have never ever gotten a straight answer to. So for that, thanks.
    And I always knew in my gut that women DO NOT want a guy to share his feelings. What I always suspected was that they want the strong silent type ie a tough guy that can stay cool in times of trouble and sort things out.
    The politically correct types “deplore” it when guys make no bones about looking. It’s degrading, objectifies women etc. I always thought that was totally full of shit. I know that chicks really like being noticed ie turn your head to get a look at a passing girl and half the time I see a little smirk and she darts a split second look in return.
    As for this business about western civilization, you’re right, we have all the goodies.

  382. Qshtik August 27, 2010 at 4:36 pm #

    I’m outta here.
    Not so fast Mila. We’ve got to clear up a misunderstanding before you go. You said:
    Since the depletion of the planet’s resources will keep happening no matter where x number of Mexicans lives, north or south of the border, it hardly seems to matter whether or not we have immigrants, legal or illegal.
    Although that sounds intuitively correct, the point made by other commenters is that when Mexicans come into the US they begin to act like us gringos, i.e. they begin to use resources profligately and their carbon footprint goes up several fold vs what it was in Mexico. I hear the number 20 million bandied around CFN as the illegal population of Mexicans in the US. So, on a planetwise basis resource consumption (oil in particular) increases. Further, the birthrate among those 20M illegals (we are told) is far higher than the existing legal population of the US. So there is a kind of double whammy effect on the US.
    Point #2: You erroniously enclosed the word edgewise in quotes but the word used was edgeways. They are synonyms but there seems to be some regional preference for one or the other. (Note: If you’re thinking “what an incredible asshole that Q can be” consider this: I once listened to an audio/CD lecture by Dr. F.E.Peters in which my ear detected an incorrect pronunciation of the word sepulcher and an odd pronunciation of the word status. I tracked down his email address at NYU and sent him an email that began “Pardon my pedantry but …” and his response came back beginning with “No need to apologize, I’m a professor so pedantry is my middle name.” We got along famously and I ended up reading his book “Ours” which contained only one footnote which concerned the pronunciation of the word “status.”)

  383. shecky August 27, 2010 at 4:46 pm #

    Q- your schoolmarmish ways grow ever more tiresome. Learn to appreciate a neologism. Abandon your love of the cliched cliche. Drop some acid or some shit. Just let the fuck go.
    Thank me later, on the other side.
    Shecky the free.

  384. treebeardsuncle August 27, 2010 at 5:26 pm #

    I agree with MM, that women like arrogant bullying jerks. What a lot of women make the mistake of is picking guys with unjustified confidence, jailbirds, miscreants, low-type jocks, etc. Since I am good-looking as well as being a rude jerk I do ok, despite the intellectualism and not being that good at ball sports and tall. That is another thing, being tall is a plus too as is being rich. Musical ability helps too. I definitely have that. So does being able to speak and write well.

  385. bossier22 August 27, 2010 at 5:27 pm #

    20 million mexican illegal aliens? gosh how many people are left in mexico anyway? what if there was only one race. would it be wise to over populate any given area? did any govt policy really cause consumerism? short sightedness is simply an american weakness these days. it is as difficult to change this habit as stopping over eating or alcholism. the individual usually has to have a crisis to change. consumerism, multiculturalism, open borders, greed, globalism, world policing, nation building, and generally not minding our own goddamn business are pretty shortsighted projects.

  386. mika. August 27, 2010 at 5:38 pm #

    Carter and Reagan are two faces of the same coin. A variation on a theme. But the song remains the same. Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, and on and on, they were ALL put in place to serve the same people, the Rockefeller Morgan mafia.
    The real fork on the road was the one that put Lincoln in office. Since then its been downhill, faster and faster.
    JFK is the exception. True, the Rockefeller Morgan mafia did put him in office. But JFK was turning against them. So they killed him. And popi Bush is involved in the killing and the cover-up.

  387. shecky August 27, 2010 at 6:00 pm #

    As I remember it, Carter told us we needed to quit burning so much oil, explore renewable resources, and wear a bloody sweater when it is cold. Reagan 86’d the CAFE standards, took down the symbolic but meaningful solar array on the White House, and canceled the tax credits supporting solar.
    Of course, Jimmy was a pussy afraid of a rabbit and Reagan liberated Buchenwald. So yeah, same thing.

  388. Qshtik August 27, 2010 at 6:02 pm #

    But JFK was turning against them. So they killed him.
    Please Mika, seek professional help. Your paranoia knows no bounds.

  389. Eleuthero August 27, 2010 at 6:38 pm #

    This thread has many attempts to ascribe
    the downfall of the US to various root
    causes. Personally, I do NOT ascribe it
    to Jews, Blacks, or any single ethnicity.
    I see ALL ethnicities going downhill, and
    It appears to be true that average young
    Gen-Y white kids are copying the WORST
    aspects of non-white culture e.g. the
    relentless cussing, the ultra-loud talk,
    the “bitch-slapping” music”, the tough-guy
    appearances (shaved head plus “just got
    outta San Quentin goatee etc.).
    However, where have the parents of these
    kids gone? Even “Dear Abby” has abdicated
    the throne. The current “Dear Abby” is the
    daughter of the real one and she once replied
    to a mother who hated the teasy cursing of
    her husband and son by telling her that it
    is better to accept these as “endearments”
    than to ruin her relationship with them.
    In other words, even in so-called polite
    white culture, people are supposed to
    accept vulgarity as just another aspect
    of love. Watching all this go down is
    depressing in the extreme. Indeed, it is
    a large reason why I’ll be done teaching
    for good on March 23, 2011.

  390. MINDfool August 27, 2010 at 6:44 pm #

    Point #2: You enclosed the word edgewise in quotes but the word used was edgeways.
    You still have those problems with the vowels:
    erroniously should be erroneously.
    I know, I know, but not when you are correcting someone else.

  391. shecky August 27, 2010 at 6:54 pm #

    my mom taught the children of Okie crop pickers back in the 60’s. it was about 50/50. about half of them were doomed from the jump. about half went to Nam or married assholes.
    she gave up too.

  392. Eleuthero August 27, 2010 at 6:59 pm #

    I totally agree with TreeBeardsUncle that
    a frequent mistake of ordinary women is
    that they appear to be selecting men for
    their “confidence” but in the absence of
    other redeeming features. Thus, they end
    up with dead-beat fathers of their children,
    abusive men, and other miscreants.
    What chaps my hide is that the spotlight is
    placed ONLY on the men and rarely on the
    CHOICES of the women. Especially in the
    young, I’ve never seen girls making worse
    choices for partners.
    Myrtle claims to like “intelligent” men yet
    my observations show that this is mainly in
    older single women and not in the young
    where it scarcely seems to be a selection
    factor at all. And even in older single
    women, a man’s “intelligence” has to be
    turned on and off at exactly the times of
    the woman’s choosing.
    At the risk of inflaming some of the fine
    females on this blog, I think intelligence
    in a man is desirable to a woman if it is
    a rather SUBDUED intelligence. It is a
    rare woman, indeed, in my experience who
    can talk about politics, astronomy, Bach,
    and high finance in the course of one evening.
    Yet I’ve had such conversational evenings with
    at least fifty men in my life and there is
    no “showing off” … it is just mutually
    enjoyable information sharing.
    I’m not a “pure” misogynist but I’m certainly
    not impressed by the nature of feminine
    intellectuality, sweeping with a broad brush.
    Almost all of the dozens of true polymaths
    I’ve conversed with in my life have been men.
    In other words, I think male and female
    “intelligence” are utterly different. Most
    college educated women I’ve dated are, of
    course, intelligent, but it tends toward
    specialization and not toward GENERAL
    curiousity about everything.
    I think a fatal error of the Femme Lib
    movement has been to try to convey the
    impression that the only difference between
    the sexes is that one stands to pee and the
    other sits. Jill Johnston was responsible
    for that (Jill of “Lesbian Nation” fame).
    We have to accept true gender differences or
    the total alienation that characterizes the
    interaction of the two sexes at present will
    only exacerbate Mad Max when it comes.

  393. progressorconserve August 27, 2010 at 7:14 pm #

    So you are a swarthy Canadian of Mediterranean extraction – and you prefer Asian women.
    I’m a swarthy American of British and Scotch Irish extraction (so why AM I swarthy, Mommy??) and I prefer blond women.
    And a lot of white chicks in my area seem to prefer black men.
    And a lot of black men in my area seem to prefer Asian females.
    I believe what we see in action here is a innate human drive to secure genetic diversity in progeny.
    Sorry ’bout that, Vlad!

  394. progressorconserve August 27, 2010 at 7:27 pm #

    OK, Mika, I had high hopes for you this time – but you are “going off the deep end,” yet again.
    So you are saying the Morganthaus, Morgans, and Rockerfellers put Linclon in office.
    And you are contradicting your OWN LINK you posted that says most of our present troubles began when Ronnie Rayguns defeated Carter.
    Pick a side, man, pick any side. And even if the whole world is a Morganthau conspiracy – they may be more stupid than the rest of us.
    And they may be doing things that will destroy the Planet without really intending it.
    Maybe you should call them up and tell them. Since you believe in their conspiracy I’m sure they will listen to you. 😉

  395. progressorconserve August 27, 2010 at 7:43 pm #

    The reason that teens any young adults are doing as you say:
    “It appears to be true that average young
    Gen-Y white kids are copying the WORST
    aspects of non-white culture e.g. the
    relentless cussing, the ultra-loud talk,
    the “bitch-slapping” music”, the tough-guy
    appearances (shaved head plus “just got
    outta San Quentin goatee etc.).”
    Is because this culture in completely IN THEIR FACES 24/7 due to TV/cable. Even when parents try to shield them – they can’t get away from it, eventually.
    The mystery to me is that we use media/TV effectively to:
    1. Stop teen smoking
    2. Stop adult smoking
    3. Stop teen drug use.
    4. Stop DUI
    5. Stop texting while driving (new GA law)
    6. Elect various jackasses of both major parties
    . etc, etc, etc.
    So we can see that TV/media works – and yet, when it comes to violence and coarsening of culture TPTB in Hollywood throw up their hands, cry “free expression” and say that violence/sex/whatever in THEIR entertainment does not affect behavior of young people.

  396. San Jose Mom 51 August 27, 2010 at 7:44 pm #

    I’ve been married for 24 years, so it’s been ages since I dated. But intelligence was very important. Not in a show-off way, but in a curious way.
    I never paid any attention to jocks or frat boys.
    I liked guys who could tell a good story.
    Sense of humor
    Good manners
    Comfortable with themselves (not flashy)
    Emotionally stable

  397. mika. August 27, 2010 at 7:51 pm #

    No paranoia here, just a healthy dose of realism. I’m a complete outsider looking in. I have zero emotional bias, and zero partisanship. I see things for what they are. The reason I see these things and you don’t, is because you’re emotionally compromised. You never cared to look at anything but the circus show and BS that’s fed to you.

  398. mika. August 27, 2010 at 8:01 pm #

    So you are saying the Morganthaus, Morgans, and Rockerfellers put Linclon in office.
    No. What I’m saying is that Lincoln was the first American President to use the old European model, the Central Bank Warfare/Welfare model. He was the first to centralize the United States (plural) into the United State (singular). American estatism and empire building really took off with Lincoln. It was Lincoln that killed the United States.
    After Lincoln it was very easy to establish the old government mafia. And that’s exactly what happened.

  399. progressorconserve August 27, 2010 at 8:12 pm #

    I wish you wouldn’t go. The purpose of a website like this (very unique one, IMO) should be interaction. For me, certainly I fear the coming “keyhole” or “bottleneck” that I think the human species is facing.
    But I gave up on saving the planet – in the near term – when they plugged that disaster in the Gulf and made it all better.
    Now, I like the intellectual interaction.
    And I’m not afraid that reading and responding to Vlad’s post (for example) will make me a White Supremacist.
    You seem to have a fear of something like that, Mila – tell us why.
    And come back and get Asoka started on the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. He wants more than open borders – he wants “la reconquista” where the Southern US is completely taken over by the millions of descendants of the few “original inhabitants.”
    Then get him started on what happens if you happen to say, “I am the Truth,” in public in certain areas.
    It’s a teeny bit scary!
    PS to Asoka – Mila was an ally for you – but she may be gone forever because she thinks the whole CFN is populated by xenophobes.
    Now, where on Earth would Mila get an idea like that????
    Oh, wait, I know – from you, Asoka:
    It is a completely un-American stance, a hateful stance, but racism and xenophobia, justified by arguments from “population biology” is what prevails on CFN.
    And Mila might have changed my mind about some things, too.
    Come back, Mila, come baaaccccccckkkkk!

  400. Qshtik August 27, 2010 at 9:04 pm #

    just a healthy dose of realism … I have zero emotional bias, and zero partisanship. I see things for what they are. The reason I see these things and you don’t, is because you’re emotionally compromised.

    This is AMAZING! I was chatting over coffee with EightM in the Greystone Institute caf and he uttered the words above verbatim. I shit you not. What are the odds of that?

  401. Qshtik August 27, 2010 at 9:14 pm #

    erroniously should be erroneously.

  402. RAW August 27, 2010 at 10:11 pm #

    Use oxen instead of horses to till your land. Oxen cost less to feed. http://www.bahs.org.uk/30n1a3.pdf

  403. Vlad Krandz August 27, 2010 at 11:23 pm #

    Where have I ever said that we’re dying only because of Blacks and Browns? No rather these groups are surging forward at our expense because of our weakness and confusion. In a no growth economy, it really is a zero sum game. We have to at least hold our own – and we can’t do that if we don’t even believe that we have any value.
    To be a “progressive conservative” is to be a liberal. And to be a liberal, is to be a communist in the make. I suggest you retrace your steps. Real Liberals, like J.S Mill or Jefferson, were free thinkers. That’s what it meant. Socially, they believed what Conservatives used to believe. Liberalism has become a word that means change, and conservatism merely the token rear guard resistance – always doomed to fail. If you want to ground your ideas in reality, I might suggest Edmund Burke. He took Mill and Paine to task, retaining their freedoms, but reigning in their excesses. He also is strong on love of country and duty. A Fascist finds much to admire in him, but he also has great gentleness and compassion. For the English speaking world, he cannot be equalled. He is to us what Cicero was to the Romans. I think you would like him. Of course, he wrote before there was a racial problem. So on that he is silent as far as I am aware. Like all men of his time, he took the dominance of Whites over our own Society for granted. Since this has become a giant problem, I found it necessary to turn towards Fascism for inspiration.

  404. Vlad Krandz August 28, 2010 at 12:07 am #

    Whites and Blacks are more different from each other than Chimps and Bonobos. The inference is clear: they should be considered different species.

  405. treebeardsuncle August 28, 2010 at 12:31 am #

    Ok. A few comments to what has been said recently.
    I. Yes, when Lincoln and the Union conquered the south they helped enable the global corporacracy to come into effect.
    II. When it matters, when they are of breeding age girls go for the dominant guys, the ones who win the fights, the tall, strong athletes. How did I have a kid and another one on the way then? I am strong enough and healthy and good-looking enough. The intelligence helps a bit too, but it is not at the top of the game. Strength and looks matter more. Dominance and confidence matter even more than that.
    III. The blacks should never have been brought over here. They are radically different from us. The hoodlum moron Mexicans should stay down south too.

  406. treebeardsuncle August 28, 2010 at 1:00 am #

    Here are the names and locations of businesses that have shut down recently in Sacramento and have not been replaced as yet. (Mervyns’ went out of business but was repaced by Kohl’s.)
    Comp USA (on Alta Arden near Howe)
    Circuit City (used to be Good Guys) on Arden right behind where Comp USA was
    Linens and Things (on Arden near Arden Fair Mall)
    Tower Books and Records (on Watt Avenue near El Camino)
    Jack’s House of Music (on El Camino near Watt Avenue)
    East West Book Store (at Howe and Fair Oaks Boulevard)
    a game store (on Howe near Arden, by the Mongolian bbq)
    Oasis Car Wash (at Watt and Arden)
    Black Angus (at Watt and Arden)
    Chuck Swift Dodge Chrysler (at Fulton and Arden I think)
    Jeep Grand Cherokee (on Fulton near Cottage)
    another furniture store (on Sunrise near the American River)
    In addition a lot of places have shut down and not been replaced all across town, including in the Sunrise Mall, on Florin Road especially around Florin Mall, on Folsom Boulevard between Sunrise and Hazel, and on Auburn Road between Watt and Madison.

  407. mika. August 28, 2010 at 1:17 am #

    Blacks are good people. Really generous beautiful graceful people. I especially love the Ethiopian blacks that came to live in Israel. Vlad, you’re such a piece of shit. I don’t believe in God, but I do believe in Karma. And you’re going to get hit hard with karma baseball bat to the head. There’s just no other way around this.

  408. treebeardsuncle August 28, 2010 at 2:01 am #

    That is a load of crap, Mika. You are generalizing from a small sample. Go spend some time in Zaire or Oakland or Chicago.

  409. Eleuthero August 28, 2010 at 2:54 am #

    This quote from Ernie Kovacs about sums
    up what you said with a certain humorous
    “Television – a medium. So called because
    it is neither rare nor well done.”
    🙂 🙂

  410. messianicdruid August 28, 2010 at 10:07 am #

    “I believe what we see in action here is a innate human drive to secure genetic diversity in progeny.”
    The “innate human drive” is in the gonads. The results are completely unconsidered.
    “You are like a wild donkey, sniffing the wind at mating time. Who can restrain your lust? Those who desire you do not even need to search, for you come running to them! Keep your feet from going unshod and your throat from thirst. But you said, It is hopeless, for I have loved strangers, and after them I will go.”

  411. progressorconserve August 28, 2010 at 10:20 am #

    You need to read Tobacco Road by Erskine Caldwell.
    Whites are quite capable of behavior that is violent, degenerate, shiftless, etc.
    Education, social class, and life circumstance determine behavior. “Race” plays only a small part in the equation.
    This only works because you are using the concept of “race” as a proxy for intelligence, social class, and life circumstances – and generalizing from specific individual behaviors to characterize entire “groups.”
    And I believe Mika is correct to mention karma. I fully intend to survive for as long as I can – and shove my progeny through the species “survival keyhole” if anyone in the US manages to get through.
    But I intend to do it while spreading as little hate and as much peace as possible – karma.
    And Vlad,
    Nice polite response back to me. I appreciate it, although I cannot *agree with most* of it. I’ll take another look on Sunday and see if we can spar some more. 😉
    And what did you think of Cash and me and the swarthy white, black, Asian, blond woman thing?
    One man’s miscegenation is another’s desire for genetic diversity in offspring???
    Or is culture more important than race?
    Just asking. 🙂

  412. progressorconserve August 28, 2010 at 10:27 am #

    Exactly, MD.
    We are our genes. This is true of all mammals. We humans manage to put a cultural “overlay” over the whole mating ritual.
    But we ignore our genetic drives at the peril of out species.
    And honestly, this goes to a question I keep asking. Why is it that the “Religions of the Book,” which evolved in harsh desert environments, seem to have trouble with human genes and cultures – living in areas like the US – that should not be harsh in the least??
    Or a rich land (America) that only becomes HARSH when society makes it harsh?

  413. progressorconserve August 28, 2010 at 10:32 am #

    What sort of farming are you doing at present?
    I have a complete set of my granddad’s “walking plows.” If I had a mule I’d be in business in TLE.
    A mule takes at least 5 acres of combined feed corn and pasture to stay alive for a year, though.
    And that represents a HUGE investment in labor and resources – just for ONE mule.
    At least I would know something about mules, though. I don’t know “squat” about oxen.

  414. Qshtik August 28, 2010 at 11:06 am #

    a lot of places have shut down
    Tree, in the same vein, my wife was working on her last client yesterday and, I figured, she’ll be too tired to cook. I said to myself, I’ll go get some take-out and surprise her … haven’t had KFC in ages … now where is there a KFC? I looked in the yellow pages and there were 3 locations. I called the nearest one, the phone rang and rang and finally a message said “this number has been disconnected.” I called the next nearest KFC … same result. I called the third KFC and an Asian Indian (Pakistani maybe?) voice answered. After much effort to pierce the accent and identify the location, I gave up and we cooked our dinner. If Kentucky Fried Chicken can’t hang on in this economy who can?

  415. progressorconserve August 28, 2010 at 11:40 am #

    Couple of ideas:
    1. A lot of businesses like this don’t answer phones, especially during busy hours. Kids today are so “wirelessly connected” that the LL phone is considered a ante deluvian antique to them.
    2. Also – with absolute ZERO racial slur intended – do you live in a fairly *white* or upper class area. There is no shortage of KFC’s in areas of the south with a reasonable black population – KFC’s, Churches, Ms. Winners, Popeyes, locally owned fried chicken places – whatever you want.
    Come south, brothe’, we’ll fix up up on some GOOD fried chicken.
    Better than Rochester, NY. See link:

  416. progressorconserve August 28, 2010 at 11:53 am #


  417. Qshtik August 28, 2010 at 12:49 pm #

    Apparenly I exude a rather high opinion of myself and thus may be guilty of creating a false impression of my status and the kinds of people among whom I live. Please be assured, I do not live in a castle with a moat around it. I am not carried on a Roman litter by slaves on my daily outings. I am the quintessential John “Q” Public. I have not only heard that people exist who have a different hue of skin than my own but I have actually seen such people. I live in Middlesex County, NJ. Following are key 2009 estimated data (%) from the US Census:
    White ……………….. 67.6
    Black ……………….. 11.0
    Asian ……………….. 19.5
    Hispanic/Latino ………. 18.0
    White – not Hispanic ….. 51.9
    Language other than Engl
    spoken at home ……….. 33.4

  418. LewisLucanBooks August 28, 2010 at 1:31 pm #

    Anybody check out the Beck / Palin rally? It’s quit a spectacle. The weeping. The praying.
    What I find particularly interesting is that a lot of the rhetoric is pandering to the military. Hmmm. I seem to remember that in a lot of cases, in Rome, the guy who controlled the military got to be emperor. Coup, anyone?

  419. treebeardsuncle August 28, 2010 at 1:34 pm #

    A couple things:
    I. To really get an idea of whether places are shutting down, one has to do a visual inspection as I did.
    II. There are a lot of low type whites too and much of their behavior is inherited as well. White behavior, intelligence, and physical strength is intermediate between that of blacks and orientals.

  420. asia August 28, 2010 at 1:46 pm #

    imagine a sassy black island woman who tosses off this:
    i have learned this living here in the usa,
    the jews own it
    the italians run it
    the blacks enjoy it
    the spanish speaking spoil it

  421. LewisLucanBooks August 28, 2010 at 1:49 pm #

    Well, it’s quit the Festival of Happy Motoring in our little burg, today. Three or four blocks of the main drag are blocked and there is a classic car show underway. Hundreds of people are thronging the streets, but not one single human being has crossed the threshold of my little bookstore.
    The motorheads apparently didn’t get the reading gene. That’s ok. I didn’t get the motorhead gene. Or at least, not much. I’m lucky to tell Volkswagens and Ramblers apart.
    But, across the street I see a nice old pickup truck. One of those that when you pop the hood you can sit on the fender and see the ground. Not much in there to go wrong. Just a block, radiator, alternator, battery and that’s about it. Come an EMP those will be the trucks to have. Not a computer chip to be seen. Of course, this one is painted in candy color yellow with glitter flake finish polished to a blinding sheen.
    Parked in front of my store is some gi-normous piece of rolling iron. If you stumbled and fell against the fin, you would be pierced. Perhaps this is one of the last gasps of Happy Motoring.
    So that is the scene in our little downtown. A main street that still looks like a main street. Old brick buildings that look like Hopper paintings. Especially around sunset when the dying light hits the bricks just so.
    What appears on Main Street in front of my store is not the future. It is the dying past. A block over I can hear the train blowing it’s horn as it pulls into the station. It sounds like the past, but I think it’s the future.

  422. asia August 28, 2010 at 1:50 pm #

    ‘And I cannot be the only poster on here who remembers the whole ZERO POPULATION GROWTH thing in the late 70’s. I know it affected me deeply.
    My wife and I had only two kids, as recommended, to “only replace” ourselves – and sometimes we felt a little guilty about that’
    and how many did that but voted for jon lindsay [nyc ayor] and the dems who ‘opened the floodgate’
    zpg+open borders…what a fukkin farce.

  423. asia August 28, 2010 at 1:55 pm #

    The answer is that 1) we don’t demand loyalty, in fact we discourage it 2) we import roughly 1 million immigrants into our country every 4 years 3) then we tell the immigrants to not adopt our ways, be loyal to yoour own tribe, ethnicity
    see the cover on NY Slimes..page one yesterday[?]the article
    ‘ no new name as immigrants seek a new life here’
    with a picture of randalls island and quotes from college profs.
    DO THESE DWEEBS REALLY THINK THAT IMMIGRANTS ARE SEEKING …a new fukkin life by moving to the usa?
    or the article on how immigrant refugees might lose their government welfare checks!!!!!!!!!!

  424. asia August 28, 2010 at 2:37 pm #

    ‘What I find particularly interesting is that a lot of the rhetoric is pandering to the military’
    forget rhot and follow the money!
    lots of money made by the uh ‘ defense ‘ contractors.

  425. asia August 28, 2010 at 2:37 pm #

    i meant ‘rhet’

  426. Qshtik August 28, 2010 at 3:02 pm #

    i meant ‘rhet’
    You mean rhet as in rhetoric? Then why not just type rhetoric? You got a heavy date? You got a fire that needs puttin out? What’s the friggin rush? Is writing exactly what you mean somehow uncool? And while I’m on the subject, you gotta problem with the shift key?

  427. RAW August 28, 2010 at 3:06 pm #

    I would imagine that mules and horses eat about the same amount and quality of food. Oxen eat less and can survive and perform on lower quality food.
    But the real issue is, how will 8 Billion people survive when easy energy is no longer available?
    Even oxen are impractical for small farmers like me, because I have only two tillable acres. In the foreseeable future I will use a small gas-powered, walk-behind tractor. But when gas becomes too expensive, I will either have to do everything manually or be innovative.
    The earth has sun in abundance. Maybe the Volt will be a bust, but maybe some good will come of all the research GM and other institutions have done, just as much good has come from NASA’s space program over the years. Let’s assume that an affordable, high energy density battery evolves over the next decade or two. Now imagine that a small farmer or family may afford several drop-in batteries, a bank of solar PV cells to charge them, and a small battery-powered tractor.
    This would eliminate the need for beasts of burden, which the earth cannot support anyway, with its burgeoning human population.

  428. mika. August 28, 2010 at 3:34 pm #

    You are generalizing from a small sample.
    And yet, I bet my sample size is larger than yours. So who’s experience is more valid?

  429. mika. August 28, 2010 at 3:53 pm #

    The next Dalai Lama:

  430. mika. August 28, 2010 at 6:27 pm #

    Why? Because these people have been constantly raped, pillaged, and destroyed by the blue eyed-devil dogs. Everywhere the racist blue-eyed devil dogs go they create war and genocide. And then they have the nerve to complain about the lack of “civilization” in the places they raped, pillaged, and destroyed.
    But that gig is up. You racist blue-eyed devil dogs stuffed the middle east with TNT, and you’ve been setting your SIS-CIA-MSM propaganda priests to bait and ignite the match that will blow up the region for decades now. But I’ll tell you very simply, if Israel is attacked by the islamo nazis, blue-eyed devil dogs will be the FIRST in line to receive Israel’s thermonuclear warheads. How’s that for low-life criminal morons.

  431. ozone August 28, 2010 at 6:53 pm #

    “But the real issue is, how will 8 Billion people survive when easy energy is no longer available?”
    They won’t.

  432. ozone August 28, 2010 at 7:03 pm #

    “But that gig is up. You racist blue-eyed devil dogs stuffed the middle east with TNT, and you’ve been setting your SIS-CIA-MSM propaganda priests to bait and ignite the match that will blow up the region for decades now. But I’ll tell you very simply, if Israel is attacked by the islamo nazis, blue-eyed devil dogs will be the FIRST in line to receive Israel’s thermonuclear warheads. How’s that for low-life criminal morons.” -Mika
    In what “form” will Israel carry out these strikes? False flag op.? Open declaration of war? Proxies? Special forces sneak-a-boo[m]?
    Sure, it’s plausible, but I don’t see the why of it in any kind of political officialdom. How are the blue-eyed devil dogs the “enemies” of the Israeli fascists? (I kinda thought they were deeply in lust…) Please explain the motivation[s]. Thanks in advance.

  433. mika. August 28, 2010 at 7:18 pm #

    In what “form”..
    Does it matter?
    As I said earlier, the gig is up. If I can figure this out, so can the those responsible for these matters in Israel. This nonsense is not going to fly anymore. And if Israel gets burned by your nonsense, I guarantee you that Israel will burn down the US, Europe, Russia, China, and everyone else involved in this nonsense.

  434. ozone August 28, 2010 at 7:31 pm #

    “And if Israel gets burned by your nonsense, I guarantee you that Israel will burn down the US, Europe, Russia, China, and everyone else involved in this nonsense.” -Mika
    Please be advised that “this nonsense” is none of MY doing. I have short-fuse neighbors, so I’m strictly the non-meddler type. I have a well developed sense of paranoia, but yours fairly sizzles off the page!
    No offense, but I still don’t understand what particular “nonsense” is being fomented by our [admittedly evil] PTB that is not in Israel’s interest[s]. Call me dense if you will, but I ain’t gettin’ it…
    BTW, burn away and be well-damned. Purge that suicidal daemon for good and all…

  435. mika. August 28, 2010 at 7:43 pm #

    No offense, but I still don’t understand what particular “nonsense” is being fomented by our [admittedly evil] PTB..
    The kind of nonsense where you arm and finance Hitler and Stalin, manipulate them into war so as to fatigue them into submission thereby expanding your empire, while 6 million Jews are murdered in killing fields, slaved to death in labor camps, or burned in concentration camp ovens. That kind of nonsense.

  436. messianicdruid August 28, 2010 at 7:54 pm #

    “But we ignore our genetic drives at the peril of our species.”
    “Those who live only to satisfy their own sinful desires will harvest the consequences of decay and death. But those who live to please the Spirit will harvest everlasting life from the Spirit.”
    We must get rid of the “religions” {commandments and doctrines of men} that pretend to be based on the book, and burn our idols {false concepts of God}.
    The belief systems of men are ever evolving, but God doesn’t change.

  437. ozone August 28, 2010 at 7:59 pm #

    Okay, THAT nonsense is absolutely some evil shit! I agree.
    But what exactly would be gained by the extermination of Israel? It seems to me that the continuation of high military tension is of more benefit to the nasty bastards that thrive on instability and internecine warfare. (As you intimate; supplying both sides produces the most profit. To have someone “win” or “lose” means the loss of a customer, or multiple customers.)
    The empire seems a little over-extended at the moment, wouldn’t you say?

  438. mika. August 28, 2010 at 8:04 pm #

    Never ever underestimate the callousness and greed of the blue-eyed devil dogs. Never ever!

  439. mika. August 28, 2010 at 8:06 pm #

    Btw, before Q gets on my case:
    “So who’s experience is more valid?”
    should read:
    “So whose experience is more valid?”

  440. ozone August 28, 2010 at 8:07 pm #

    Here’s a link that will at least explain the film for ya. Intriguing concept.
    Was free viewing for a time, but I can’t find a working link anymore. (I saw it via Netflix; sorry about the commercial plug! Daaaay-um…)

  441. mila59 August 28, 2010 at 8:19 pm #

    Q: I’ll never catch up on everything here…but to answer you, at least:
    Good catch on the “edgewise.” Learn something new every day.
    If Mexicans (or other immigrants) come to the U.S. and start consuming at the “normal” U.S. rate, perhaps we should consider changing the norm rather than trying to close our borders to legal immigration. Honestly, I don’t believe our natural resources are going to be used up noticeably more slowly if we close our borders to all immigration. But — I concede that it’s a possibility.
    Now…to get to much more pleasant topics…one thing that drives me absolutely CRAZY is the general use of the word “lay” when people mean “lie.” As in, for instance, “I lie down on the couch every night after dinner” (not true, but…). It is almost universally written or spoken as “I lay down on the couch every night after dinner.” I love pedantry!

  442. ozone August 28, 2010 at 8:24 pm #

    Thanks, I ALMOST never do, but sometimes I “slack” somewhat.
    Now, what we heard latest out of Iraq?
    “Al Qaeda” (sp?) is responsible for the string of bombings. Jeeeeezuz jumped-up Kee-rist on a crutch!
    Just who does the media/military/corporate establishment think they’re fooling with this crap anymore? Tea-baggers? Beckoned Beck-ers? WHO???
    I put my money on CIA-backed professionals for this operation. It keeps the occupiers around “at the request of the local gov’t.”. Now that would be pretty slick, eh?
    Sunni and Shia conflict? Guess whOOooo…
    Knock, knock.
    Who’s there?

  443. mika. August 28, 2010 at 8:33 pm #

    What’s funny is that people like PC can’t figure out why the oh so nice “keepers of peace” yankee imperialists are so hated all around the globe.

  444. mila59 August 28, 2010 at 8:35 pm #

    Awwww shucks, Progress. I can’t help but get a smile at your post there.
    I’m not afraid of becoming a white supremicist (sp?). I love intellectual give-and-take. And god knows, I care way more about the planet than about the people — generally speaking, of course. So perhaps we agree on that? But some of the stuff on this site is just so far out there, I see utter futility in trying to present any rational arguments to counter MOST of the stuff. Not to say all the posts, or everyone who contributes, but so much of it. But I admit — it’s hard to stay away once one is in the habit. Shit — it’s like cigarettes or some other drug of choice.

  445. ozone August 28, 2010 at 8:49 pm #

    Oopsie, the mask is slipping…

  446. mika. August 28, 2010 at 9:00 pm #

    True. That’s not to say that the others are much better — they’re not.

  447. treebeardsuncle August 28, 2010 at 10:51 pm #

    My eyes are brown.
    Here is another site catering to paranoid recluses linked by latoc that you folks should like:

  448. Cavepainter August 29, 2010 at 12:07 am #

    The polar ice is disappearing taking the polar bears with it. You knew that of course. Did you know though that similarly the living structure of the flora/fauna landscape (oceans as well) in much of the world is evincing a “feedback loop” recoil. That is, an unwinding after having been tightened for decades, resulting in “carrying capacity” dropping while population continues to soar. That’s right, demand rising while supply dwindles.
    Yeah, I know all the hoop-la about western nation imperialism and its consumer culture’s contributive share in bringing about the phenomenon, but that’s really beside the point now that those loops are compounding with the twin effects of climate change and ecological collapse. No amount of philosophical hand-wringing can change the fact that human population is too great even if the most severe “sustainability” measures are enacted.
    The blame debate is an academic exercise of no relevance. The outstanding issue from this point on is can the US (even with our “relatively” favorable resource/population ratio) manage to save itself? Plenty of computer models exist showing figures of how many people the earth can support if standard of living is uniformly reduced to minimum caloric requirement, but even if there was a social engineering scheme capable of rendering human behavior so manageable life experience would be whittled down to Nebraska-cattle-feed-lot human equivalence (or tube assisted vegetative state).
    Personally, I prefer having enough water to pre wash rice before cooking (or for washing out my toothbrush for that matter). I grieve to think that such “intrinsic” qualities of life familiar to many still today in our nation (woodstove heat and wilderness experience) might be crowded out. No point in singing the PC hymn of “celebrate diversity” because if we allow population here to spiral upward sheer necessity will squeeze us all into a uniformity of desperation as resources grow ever more thin.
    Yes, I’m contending that nature is asserting itself with indifference to human notions of “universal justice”. Prospect for survival will be coincidence of birth locality, not on some World Court effort to balance past injustice. This is a strain on the human psyche being the social animal we are. Social cohesiveness has always depended upon a common belief of a judicious order dispensing reward and punishment equitably, even on a cosmic level. Nature though is only a numbers game; a species that has grown too numerous is mercilessly cut back without differentiating by sundry definition of “virtue”.
    If local sustainability is to succeed even here in America we’d better come to accept that population relocation to here from all the distressed areas around the globe will only spread the scope of the disaster. Preserving semblance of living quality known to us today might be a far reach even if we stabilize national population at its current level.

  449. ozone August 29, 2010 at 1:02 am #

    I hear you. Sobering. And, yes, everything else is pretty much “academic”. If some should survive to the other side of the great contraction, it would behoove them to know what crapola to avoid socially and politically, no? (Of course, those quaint notions might be moot as well if survival is the only metric.) I had always wished that I might have made a difference here or there, but I suppose it’s all just a toss of the die from this point forward. I still intend to “do what I can”, but no longer entertain false hopes for fat’n’happy outcomes.

  450. asoka August 29, 2010 at 1:45 am #

    cavepainter said:

    No amount of philosophical hand-wringing can change the fact that human population is too great even if the most severe “sustainability” measures are enacted.
    The blame debate is an academic exercise of no relevance.

    If the situation is as serious as you paint it (pun intended), and I agree it is, then deporting a few million illegal immigrants is not going to solve the problem, is it?
    The climactic changes we are facing are not a national problem, they are a global problem. Moving “illegal immigrants” north or south or east or west of particular national borders doesn’t in any way solve the larger problems.
    Moving Mexican immigrants back south of the border will not solve the climatic changes that are cooking our planet. According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the planet has just come through the warmest decade, the warmest twelve months, the warmest six months and the warmest April, May and June on record.
    Nine nations have so far set their all-time temperature records in 2010, including Russia (111 degrees), Niger (118), Sudan (121), Saudi Arabia and Iraq (126 apiece), and Pakistan, which also set the new all-time Asia record in May: a hair under 130 degrees. I can turn my oven to 130 degrees.
    Moving Mexican immigrants back south of the border will not rescue the oceans we depend on for life. A new study from Canadian researchers has shown that warmer seawater has reduced phytoplankton, the base of the marine food chain, by 40 percent since 1950.
    Moving Mexican immigrants back south of the border will not move forward legislation to address these problems. In late July, the US Senate decided to do exactly nothing about climate change.
    The Congress didn’t do less than they could have —- they did nothing, preserving a perfect two-decade bipartisan record of no action.
    Senate majority leader Harry Reid decided not even to schedule a vote on legislation that would have capped carbon emissions.
    The so-called “illegal” immigrant “problem” and the rants calling for “protecting our borders” are distracting us from the real problems we face, and those who focus on “illegals” are distracting us from saving the planet.
    Climate change does not respect national borders. Oceans do not respect national borders. We don’t have extra resources to spend on climate disasters. Spending on deporting “illegals” is a waste of our resources.
    We are dependent on the oceans for oxygen and for food. If we don’t save the oceans, we will die … regardless of which side of a national border we are on. Sending troops to “guard” the border with Mexico is a waste of money and a distraction from really serious issues.
    Illegal immigration is not a pressing or serious issue that threatens GLOBAL SURVIVAL.
    People like ProCon who claim to care about saving the planet for their grandchildren are not being honest. So much ranting about “protecting the borders” will not help … but then, ProCon never apologized for calling me a “bald-faced liar” either, and tried to get the anti-Muslim discussion going again this week with his “I am the Truth” comment. ProCon also lied again this week claiming I don’t let anyone “get a word in edgewise” when this is only my third post for the whole week.
    I must conclude ProCon, as well as those who harp on Mexicans, Muslims, Mosques, race, religion, borders, culture, genes, etc. are an impediment to honest debate about the really serious issues we face: nuclear proliferation, environmental degradation, and GLOBAL overpopulation.

  451. wagelaborer August 29, 2010 at 1:53 am #

    The male and female comments on mate selection so far only show the diversity in human experience.
    I am attracted to lean and lanky men with a sense of humor and a frank appreciation for my charms.
    But if they turn out to be racists or Republicans, they’re out of there!
    Actually, my husband is the only guy I would ever want, and he is intelligent, funny, kind, thoughtful and convinced that he has an equal responsibility for household duties. Plus, he likes sex and he’s good looking, in a Scots-Irish kind of way.
    Why would I want a guy who doesn’t share his feelings? I’m supposed to tiptoe around some mesomorphic jackass trying to guess what’s he’s thinking?
    I don’t think so!

  452. wagelaborer August 29, 2010 at 1:57 am #

    “And, BTW, where do you get the idea you have to be low class to like big boobs? I love big boobs, the bigger the better … topped off with a big set of chilled nipples standing at attention like soldiers. I want my voice to echo in the cleavage and when I die I hope it’s from suffocation in an enormous pair of tits (@ )( @) ;o)”
    Interesting, that you proceed from the assumption that you are not low class.
    And that you assume that we do not think you’re low class.
    Why would you make that assumption?

  453. wagelaborer August 29, 2010 at 2:03 am #

    You are right, Asoka, that immigration is a distraction from our global problems, but wrong in that immigration has no affect on those problems.
    Illegal immigration is driven by the capitalist need for cheap labor.
    And when they get here, they indulge in the American wasteful standard of living.
    Americans are 5% of the world’s population, but use 25% of the world’s energy.
    How can you say that allowing more people to live in the wasteful society that is the US will have no effect on the world’s ecology?

  454. neckflames August 29, 2010 at 2:53 am #

    I hope to visit New Zealand within the year or so. What would you say is the best month to visit?

  455. mika. August 29, 2010 at 8:33 am #

    My eyes are brown.
    Good. Stop parroting the divide and conquer racist propaganda memes put out by the blue-eyed devil dogs, like some brainless automaton.

  456. lbendet August 29, 2010 at 9:28 am #

    Tales from the Warpage:
    Undoubtedly, we will be hearing non-stop coverage of Mr. Beck’s recreation of Martin Luther King Jr’s. “I have a Dream”. I plan to be swimming through the Sunday morning talk shows this week–hope to miss the whole barrage.
    This past week I heard something that really caught my attention. It was a statement made by Sen. David Vitter (R-LA), Rep. John Fleming (R-LA) during their campaigns for the November elections.
    What they are doing is conflating Western Europe with the former Soviet Union. Clearly, they are threatened by the fact that Europe is light years ahead of this country and they don’t want American citizens to even consider the idea of mixed economies so now it’s time to demonize Europe.
    The form of Christianity these men espouse is that of “The Family”, a politicized group of Christianists who have recreated Jesus as the CEO and his apostles as the board of directors. I can just see Jesus sporting an Armani suit with hair slicked into a short pony tail—couldn’t you?
    They tell a hurting population, one that cannot afford their healthcare costs– that they have a choice between godlessness and Christianity. Welcome to the “Theater of cruelty”.
    They say bipartisanship impossible:
    “We have two competing world views here and there is no way that we can reach across the aisle — one is going to have to win,” Fleming said.
    We are either going to go down the socialist road and become like western Europe and create, I guess really a godless society, an atheist society. Or we’re going to continue down the other pathway where we believe in freedom of speech, individual liberties and that we remain a Christian nation. So we’re going to have to win that battle, we’re going to have to solve that argument before we can once again reach across and work together on things.”
    Earth to The right wingers: Doesn’t the Pope reside in Western Europe? I think he believes in Christ.

  457. mika. August 29, 2010 at 9:56 am #

    Doesn’t the Pope reside in Western Europe? I think he believes in Christ.
    Actually, NO. The only thing that the thieving Roman Catholic Church believes in is estatism — centralizing power, money, and empire.

  458. lbendet August 29, 2010 at 10:34 am #

    So whaddya think?
    Are the Christianists who have converted Christ into a Corportist any more believers in Christianity than the Pope, who represents 1.166 billion catholics?
    I think they may have lots in common, but you can’t define Catholicism as atheist.

  459. asoka August 29, 2010 at 11:14 am #

    Mexican immigrants eat beans. When they can’t afford to pay the light bill, they eat beans in the dark.
    They are not the ones buying the Hummers and McMansions. They are not responsible for the “American wasteful standard of living”.
    They are not even seduced by capitalist propaganda because they are hard working and actually do have family values. They are not being seduced into spending the money on selfish wasteful purchases for themselves.
    Remittances from Mexicans outside Mexico are Mexico’s No. 2 source of foreign income after oil exports. They totaled $21.2 billion in 2009.
    Wage, you are in California. Drive along US 1 and look at the brown people bent over working in the fields. Then look the other direction at the white people unloading their wind surf gear from their Toyota Land Cruisers.
    You are telling me the brown people contribute to America’s “wasteful standard of living” with their last ten dollars after they have sent their earnings back to Mexico?
    Get real, Wage. You are only contributing to the anti-Mexican immigrant hysteria on CFN.

  460. mika. August 29, 2010 at 11:24 am #

    So whaddya think?
    Everyone and their mother has converted yeshua bar yosef into everything they wanted. And it’s all lies build on top of lies build upon a story twisted upside down. The story of yeshua bar yosef is a very simple one. Yeshua bar yosef was a judean nationalist who resisted roman imperialism and the installed roman puppet government ruling over Judea. Yeshua bar yosef strictly avoided all the hellenized/roman colonies set up in judea, trying as best he knew how to resist roman imperialism and occupation. A simple example of this resistance can be glimpsed by his confrontation with the money changers and his advocacy to “give back to caesar what is caesar’s”. Jesus understood the power of Rome stems from its power to enforce the acceptance of its currency. Basically the same mechanism at work today in the central bank warfare/welfare model. The central bank uses armed mercenaries/armies to force people to use the currency it issues, which it then uses to pay these armed mercenaries/armies as it counterfeits endless wealth for itself thru the issue of that currency. This is the core of US dollar imperialism. The US gov mafia forces resource rich countries to sell their resource in US dollars. The thieving US gov mafia issues worthless US paper currency and in exchange for that worthless paper receives energy rich oil and other natural resources, or slave labor goods from china, south america, etc.

  461. progressorconserve August 29, 2010 at 11:24 am #

    Wage, you did a better and more polite job of phrasing the questions than I would have.
    Asoka, your answers, please.
    “You are right, Asoka, that immigration is a distraction from our global problems, but wrong in that immigration has no affect on those problems.
    Illegal immigration is driven by the capitalist need for cheap labor.
    And when they get here, they indulge in the American wasteful standard of living.
    Americans are 5% of the world’s population, but use 25% of the world’s energy.
    How can you say that allowing more people to live in the wasteful society that is the US will have no effect on the world’s ecology?”
    And, A, I might address your contentions on de ju
    vs de facto in the following areas:
    1. Treaty enforcement
    2. I am the Truth.
    3. AM vs PM
    Although I doubt anyone other than you or I would understand the concepts or not be bored by them.
    Although, “I am the Truth” seems a very frightening story to me – taken as a whole.
    But I’m willing to let it drop on here.
    And Mila, I’m glad you didn’t leave us.
    You echo some of our more “liberal” posters in that we *only* need to reduce US consumption patterns which will make uncontrolled immigration all OK.
    Sorry – such reduction will NEVER happen until FORCED, on the US population. (We proved that again this summer with the oil disaster.) And the more Americans, of all stripes, legal, illegal, native born – the worse for the Planet – when TS finally does HTF.
    Starting as a teenager I *lived and breathed* the – compact car/walk when possible – eat local – reduce electricity use – Zero Population Growth –
    Out of control immigration (and immigrant birthrates) has made ALL OF THAT – THE ENTIRE FORTY YEARS OF MY WORKING LIFE – A COMPLETE LIE.
    Aristocratic Elite – bah, humbug!
    TBTB are STUPID or non-existent.
    Our country is driving the planet to an overpopulated free market capitalistic doom.
    Controlling immigration is one small step toward stopping this doom.

  462. progressorconserve August 29, 2010 at 11:31 am #

    Ah, so they send their money back to Mexico so MEXICO can build up their own “wasteful standard of living.”
    This is supposed to make global ecosystem and resource degeneration improve in what manner?

  463. progressorconserve August 29, 2010 at 11:38 am #

    Mexico has a vibrant and growing economy.
    My son just got back from down there on a business trip. He dealt with Mexican “white people,” in his own amazed words.
    Asoka, I’ll repeat the questions you have never answered – and perhaps never will.
    “Why is it that the Mexicans of Castillian Spanish descent never immigrate to the US?
    “What is wrong with Mexican society that their poor and underclass are driven to BREAK THE LAW to escape?

  464. wagelaborer August 29, 2010 at 12:00 pm #

    Asoka, I am not against Mexicans. I grew up with Mexican-Americans, who participated in US wasteful society just as European immigrants did.
    I don’t live in California anymore, but when I did I lived near Alviso, and my kids went to school there.
    When Reagan legalized all the immigrants, my kids’ school emptied out for a month. Everyone took their kids and went home to Mexico to visit relatives they hadn’t seen in years.
    Do I think that people really want to live like that? No!
    Two anecdotal experiences for you.
    Years ago, my friend and I gave a Mexican acquaintance a ride back to his home deep in the fields of Central California. Although this guy was a total hippie, his family was a typical American family. I remember watching in horror as his sister dumped about 1/2 a can of Comet into the sink to clean it.
    I work in an ER in Illinois now. It gets very cold here, unlike California.
    Invariably, Mexicans will come in in January wearing T-shirts. When I ask why, they say that they keep their houses very warm, so that they don’t have to wear warm clothes.
    This is wasting fossil fuels, just like any other clueless American.
    This is why I think that US population should be kept at lower levels.

  465. wagelaborer August 29, 2010 at 12:06 pm #

    Don’t they picture Jesus as more of a Rambo-type than a CEO-type?
    I think that the numerous big box Christians who read the “Left Behind” books, and salivate over the coming Jesus-inspired bloodbath, (which is worse than the JHK secular bloodbath) have been taught that Jesus comes with a sword and slays his way to a better (because heretic-free) world.
    Either way, it’s scary.

  466. progressorconserve August 29, 2010 at 12:18 pm #

    OK, I’ll admit upfront that this little A & P flame war is stupid.
    But here goes – and remember A, you asked for it:
    “then, ProCon never apologized for calling me a “bald-faced liar” either, and tried to get the anti-Muslim discussion going again this week with his “I am the Truth” comment. ProCon also lied again this week claiming I don’t let anyone “get a word in edgewise” when this is only my third post for the whole week.”
    No apology is necessary. The 10th post on the thread last week (early AM) was about religion. You and Mika went back and forth several times about it. Then there were a few posts PM concerning religions BEFORE I asked you about “the Truth.”
    So for you to ask for an apology only proves that YOU DO NOT CAREFULLY READ AND CONSIDER THE POSTS OF OTHERS before responding.
    And, A, you are a liar for calling me a liar – or something. ;-(
    ProCon also lied again this week claiming I don’t let anyone “get a word in edgewise”
    We need to air it out on here. Asoka, try to let some other posters “get a word in edgeways,” please.
    Which is SEVERAL VERY IMPORTANT WORDS AWAY from what you say I said.
    And I even said “please.” 🙂
    I’m glad Mila came back to us. You, Asoka, DROVE AWAY a poster named DESERTDAWG a couple of weeks ago – as I was trying to ask why he thought drilling in ANWR was a good thing to do.
    Way to help kill the planet, dude.
    And it is “edgeways!” Q has already caught this mistake once!
    If you’re gonna quote another poster, get it correct.

  467. progressorconserve August 29, 2010 at 12:27 pm #

    That 10th post was yours last week, btw, Asoka.
    “We need to air it out on here. Asoka, try to let some other posters “get a word in edgeways,” please.”
    Is a direct quote from me. I will stand by it as absolute truth.

  468. messianicdruid August 29, 2010 at 12:38 pm #

    “Yeshua bar yosef was a judean nationalist who resisted roman imperialism and the installed roman puppet government ruling over Judea.”
    Now you have made the same mistake. He didn’t “resist” the Romans, nor was He a “nationalist”.
    Here is a good follow up to Frank Chadorov and Eric Andrews you provided for us last week; interestingly, a story about immigration:
    It is very important to get at least this far:
    “I will also appoint a place for my people Israel {the descendents of Jacob}, and will plant them, that they may live in their own place, and not be disturbed again; nor will the wicked afflict them any more, as formerly…”

  469. treebeardsuncle August 29, 2010 at 1:17 pm #

    I thought what WL said to Q was very funny.
    On another note, immigration to America does increase environmental destruction through excessive resource use. That immigration in turn is produced by corporate exploitation and the resultant displacement of peoples. To reduce these trends the power of corporations must be reduced. That can be done by removing their status as persons before the law. However, states imperialized other states even before the advent of modern capitalism. Look at the Romans. So, in a sense Trip is right, one cane trace environmental degredation back to the advent of agriculture. One can even trace it back to the advent of modern homo sapiens who spread out of Africa and killed off a lot of mega-fuana in Australia and North America especially.

  470. lbendet August 29, 2010 at 1:32 pm #

    The point I was making in my first post today seems to have been misconstrued judging by your responses. I was pointing out a new device by the right wingers conflating religiosity in terms of economic theory.
    Google “The Family” and you’ll get my drift:
    I’m simply saying that the meme of these people is that anyone who believes in public works is by definition godless, so Western Europe is atheist because they have a mixed economy. If we went down that road we would become godless in the same manner and lose our freedom according to their logic–or lack there of.
    Yet their own symbol of religion was all about compassion. If you don’t like my using the Catholic church of Western Europe as a symbol of belief in God then let me rephrase: Because Christ represents compassion (& a public sector) is Christ godless?

  471. treebeardsuncle August 29, 2010 at 2:04 pm #

    Alright, I get it. This is an attempt to bring the Bible thumpers more into the republican camp by conflating belief in God with a belief in “free market capitalism”, which really means doing what benefits the executives of and leading traders involved in international corporations.

  472. lbendet August 29, 2010 at 2:13 pm #

    Thanks, treebeardsuncle

  473. mika. August 29, 2010 at 2:14 pm #

    Leaving aside the story of Jesus, because as I earlier anybody can read anything they want into that story — and has, how does political and economic compulsion translate into compassion?

  474. mika. August 29, 2010 at 2:26 pm #

    Now you have made the same mistake. He didn’t “resist” the Romans, nor was He a “nationalist”.
    There are so many lies in the Jesus story, so many omissions and misrepresentation, that really it’s pointless to even bother. Believe what you want to believe, but from my experience, people that prescribe to that nonsense are little more than idiots or repulsive snake oil scoundrels.

  475. treebeardsuncle August 29, 2010 at 2:31 pm #

    Postings have gotten slow lately. There was a lot less said this week than last week.

  476. Qshtik August 29, 2010 at 3:05 pm #

    Postings have gotten slow lately. There was a lot less said this week than last week.
    By what system of math do you arrive at that statement? Word count perhaps?
    Total comments last week = 464
    Total comments this week to date = 477

  477. asoka August 29, 2010 at 3:07 pm #

    Is a direct quote from me. I will stand by it as absolute truth.
    I don’t want to continue a “flame war” with you.
    I apologize if I offended you. You can have all the bandwidth you need to get a word in edgewise.
    You were correct about the quote. I put quotes around it but I didn’t do a copy/paste… just remembering what I read. In certain parts of the country the saying uses the word “edgewise” and that is the way I have heard it, so I typed it that way incorrectly. I apologize for so serious an offense as to confuse edgeways and edgewise.
    You are also probably correct that other posters probably don’t care to read about an A and P flame war. It doesn’t even interest me.
    Pardon me for not answering your question about Mexico. I do not accept your premise that only a certain type of Mexican immigrates to the USA. It is their land, the “reconquista” is well under way and anyone in Mexico is welcome to cross the border any time they please from my point of view. The more the merrier and not just because I love Mexican food! 🙂

  478. mika. August 29, 2010 at 3:42 pm #

    It is their land, the “reconquista” is well under way and anyone in Mexico is welcome to cross the border any time they please from my point of view.
    How come this logic does not apply when it comes to the rollback jihadi imperialists, like in Judea for example?

  479. asia August 29, 2010 at 4:14 pm #

    Americans are 5% of the world’s population, but use 25% of the world’s energy
    and i say yr a fool…the us populations increased by 50% due to immigration over the last 40 years, fool.

  480. treebeardsuncle August 29, 2010 at 4:30 pm #

    Well that is because the Ass-Suckah man is a GEE-HODI shill, and out to destroy the white race and the Christian religion.
    Tell me, Ass-Sucka man when you get home to kick it in the crib, do you turn up the bass before breaking out the 40-ouncer (of malt liquer)? I am trying to see if you are even a real black man.

  481. progressorconserve August 29, 2010 at 4:54 pm #

    Interesting ideas from you this week, as (almost?) always. So when you say:
    The male and female comments on mate selection so far only show the diversity in human experience.
    I am attracted to lean and lanky men with a sense of humor and a frank appreciation for my charms
    I thought for a second before saying to myself, wow, she’s describing me! 🙂
    I continue to be fascinated at how *many* posters on sites like this project their own gender, personality, height, weight, social class, etc onto other posters.
    When I discovered you were female, for example, I immediately ascribed to you the qualities of my (short, blond, intelligent) wife. As I have watched your thoughts unfold through time, I have added (mentally) several inches to your height and turned your hair to black.
    Actually, now I’ve got you looking like a young lady I dated in my 20’s. She was a radiology tech. We had a lot in common, including a mutual and joyous interest in human sexuality.
    That was not enough to hold us together, though, and we also FOUGHT LIKE CATS AND DOGS about many subjects for the year we dated.
    This girl was responsible for my only foray EVER into republican politics. She took we to a Young Republican party/dinner to celebrate some local jackass winning a nomination.
    That was before the Regan “revolution” and back when GA outside metro Atlanta was solidly Democratic.
    I thought some of those Young Republicans were venal nutcases then – still do.
    Unfortunately, now they are older and some of them are in local/state/national politics.
    It’s a funny world, sometimes!

  482. messianicdruid August 29, 2010 at 4:58 pm #

    If Jesus were either of these things the leaders would not have crucified Him. They WANTED a militant messiah to throw off Rome’s yoke. This was the whole idea behind Judas’ betrayal. He knew who Jesus was, and had witnessed that He had the power to resist the Romans. But, there were other prophecies to fulfill, which Judas, the priesthood, and apparently yourself, were/are unaware of. Many more are being fulfilled right now, but most will not see it for years.
    Did you read the link? Of course not, your mind is already made up.

  483. mika. August 29, 2010 at 5:03 pm #

    People are captured by emotions, not reason. What is the reason for giving allegiance to political religion? What’s the point of it? So some Pope or some Sultan can live in an even more opulent palace? Really, I don’t understand you people.

  484. progressorconserve August 29, 2010 at 5:05 pm #

    I got it immediately, but it was nice of Tree to give a synopsis.
    Mika drug us off in a direction that was not supported by your original post.
    And Christianity has been ruthlessly co-opted since at least the 4th century to allow some horrendously vile things to occur – things that will make remaking the US as a free market corporatist state –
    Look like a happy benign Sunday walk in the park, at least in the beginning stages. (?)
    I do wish they would leave religion out of their politics.
    We have enough problems.

  485. mika. August 29, 2010 at 5:10 pm #

    I didn’t say Jesus was militant. I said he was a Judean nationalist and that he resisted imperialism, specifically Roman imperialism, thru the only way he knew imperialism could be resisted, that is, NOT thru military resistance, but thru economic and propaganda warfare. Kinda like what I’m doing here. The US = Rome.

  486. mika. August 29, 2010 at 5:17 pm #

    ..the rollback ^of jihadi imperialists..

  487. messianicdruid August 29, 2010 at 5:55 pm #

    “I said he was a Judean nationalist and that he resisted imperialism, specifically Roman imperialism…”
    But, resisting imperialism was not on His agenda. It was the fulfilment of prophecy. Rome was simply the {current} tool God was using to disipline His people. The “imperialists” would not have been there if the people had been keeping the Law.
    It was the “commandments and doctrines of men”, specifically the Leaven of the Pharisees {hypocritical religion}, Sadducees {spirituall blind humanism} and Herod {political expediency} which had led the people into having other g-o-d-s {rulemakers} over them.
    Jesus was constantly pointing the people to God’s Law and showing the false interpretations of the priests and lawyers that were used to enrich the leaders and keep the common people in bondage.

  488. mila59 August 29, 2010 at 5:58 pm #

    Tall, smart, nice ass, can hold your liquor, not a Republican

  489. progressorconserve August 29, 2010 at 6:01 pm #

    Whoa, Dudette, that’s me again!
    Hold on;
    Let me get a note from my wife!

  490. mika. August 29, 2010 at 6:21 pm #

    But, resisting imperialism was not on His agenda.
    Right. So Paulus of Tarsus, Roman agent and official Roman biographer of “Jesus” would have you believe. Pretty much EVERYTHING you know about Jesus comes from lies set forth by Paulus of Tarsus and other Roman redactors. But the truth is a little different from the Pauline BS and what the Roman imperialists would have us believe.
    Resisting imperialism was not on his agenda? Why not?! Because Roman murderous brutality and thieving imperialism is sanctioned by god? Well, fsck you and your Pauline Roman Imperialist Church.

  491. Qshtik August 29, 2010 at 6:43 pm #

    Interesting, that you proceed from the assumption that you are not low class.
    WOW! What a day! I haven’t been so scared since I nearly lost the presidency of Skull and Bones to whutzizname.
    I was hitching a ride home on Steve’s chopper (..Forbes.. helluva guy) when it became apparent we weren’t maintaining appropriate lift (couple of damned geese got into the blades) and I had to shove four cases of fine red (Chteau La Mondotte Saint-Emilion 1996) out the door (like so much ballast) that I’d just picked up at a save-the-whales auction in the Hamptons. Easy come, easy go, eh?.
    So, anyway, Wage, what was that point your trying to make re class?

  492. messianicdruid August 29, 2010 at 6:48 pm #

    “Pretty much EVERYTHING you know about Jesus comes from…”
    You cannot make such an all-encompassing {pretty-much} statement and retain any credibility.

  493. mika. August 29, 2010 at 6:56 pm #

    Ok then, tell me where I’m wrong. Mark Luke John Matthew, they’re all Pauline derivatives. What else do you have?

  494. mika. August 29, 2010 at 7:03 pm #

    Ok then, tell me where I’m wrong.
    Actually I take that back. I couldn’t care less. I’m not interested in your nonsense. Now go away.

  495. Qshtik August 29, 2010 at 7:10 pm #

    You cannot make such an all-encompassing {pretty-much} statement and retain any credibility.
    Here we go again … Messi has the balls to tell us what the intentions of Jesus and his Dad were 2000 years ago and, to compound the idiocy, Mika argues with him. Heaven help us!

  496. ozone August 29, 2010 at 8:31 pm #

    “WOW! What a day! I haven’t been so scared since I nearly lost the presidency of Skull and Bones to whutzizname.
    I was hitching a ride home on Steve’s chopper (..Forbes.. helluva guy) when it became apparent we weren’t maintaining appropriate lift (couple of damned geese got into the blades) and I had to shove four cases of fine red (Chteau La Mondotte Saint-Emilion 1996) out the door (like so much ballast) that I’d just picked up at a save-the-whales auction in the Hamptons. Easy come, easy go, eh?.” -Q.
    Now that’s G-D funny!!
    Something came out of my nose that I don’t remember consuming, but it was worth it!
    Hey, I weep for the Saint-Emilion, as well. Damn shame, that. (Me and m’buddy used to look for cases of St.-Em on the big discount and ride around in the rust-mobile drinking it “out the bottle”. Bottle apiece… durn foolish, but we wuz young and lucky. Good times! Yikes!)
    Thanks again; good fun. :o)

  497. ozone August 29, 2010 at 8:33 pm #

    See yez next screed-scouring! ;o)

  498. mila59 August 29, 2010 at 8:47 pm #

    Whoa, Q. It’s St. Emillon (the wine, not the Saint).
    You’re funny, though. There’s another error/typo in your post, too.

  499. mila59 August 29, 2010 at 8:50 pm #

    Q — that is to say, two “ells” in the name Emillon.
    And below, “your” should be “you’re.”
    I’m just sayin’.
    “So, anyway, Wage, what was that point your trying to make re class?”

  500. messianicdruid August 29, 2010 at 9:04 pm #

    I’m encouraginging “us” to keep looking, rather than be anchored in one place. Don’t take my word for anything! If what you hear from me sounds like babel, ignore it. God can {and does} speak for Himself.

  501. Qshtik August 29, 2010 at 9:11 pm #

    Q — that is to say, two “ells” in the name Emillon.
    Blame this link … scroll to 6th wine on list.
    However, you got me on “your.”

  502. treebeardsuncle August 29, 2010 at 11:44 pm #

    Well, the Asian markets are higher. Am hoping to sell a little Apple for a small profit. Have made some short turn-around trades lately. Bought 25 shares of Apple in an IRA for $239 or so last Wednesday and sold it for $243 or so on Thursday.

  503. Qshtik August 30, 2010 at 12:14 am #

    Bought 25 shares of Apple in an IRA for $239 or so last Wednesday and sold it for $243 or so on Thursday.
    OK, truncating the “or so” that’s $100 gross less commission less tax (when you start taking those minimum required distributions after age 70.5) leaves you with a cheap dinner for two (no wine) and a movie … but what the hey, it’s better than a loss. With Jobs looking more gaunt every time we see him in a product intro .. well .. I wouldn’t want to be holding significant shares of Apple when he checks out without warning someday.
    I, too, noted that Asia is up sharply at this hour … wonder what that’s all about?

  504. mika. August 30, 2010 at 12:16 am #

    Mika drug us off in a direction that was not supported by your original post.
    Don’t mind the drugs talking, err,.. I mean wine:
    Behind the Wheel – http://goo.gl/Sp2D

  505. mika. August 30, 2010 at 12:18 am #

    I, too, noted that Asia is up sharply at this hour … wonder what that’s all about?
    I think this will explain it:
    On the Edge with Joern Berninger – http://bit.ly/aEltZ1

  506. asoka August 30, 2010 at 12:28 am #


  507. Qshtik August 30, 2010 at 1:00 am #

    I think this will explain it:
    I listened to first couple mins of each video and got nothing out of it related to Asian markets on Monday morning Asia time. Pehaps you could summerize for me what you believe the salient points were.

  508. wagelaborer August 30, 2010 at 1:06 am #

    Funny, cause when you said you were swarthy, I automatically pictured you as stocky, also.
    I’m not short or tall, I’m 5’4. And I have brown hair (sun bleached in the summer) and freckles.
    A Republican that liked sex?? Without meth and hookers, I mean?
    This is an eye-opening forum!

  509. wagelaborer August 30, 2010 at 1:31 am #

    So you went from John Q Public to Steve Forbes companion in the same forum.
    You contain multitudes, I guess.
    My point about class was that you spewed out a boorish, crude paean to big breasts, and somehow believed that your exalted Qness would bestow a patina of dignity onto every Hustler-reading jerk-off in America that agrees with you.
    You’re not a member of the ruling class. You suckled at the enormous Pentagon teat long enough to secure a good lifestyle for yourself, and you think that makes you special.
    It doesn’t. You’re a despicable member of the US war machine, and you don’t have the decency to feel an ounce of guilt about it, nor feel a bit of sympathy for the victims.
    That’s my point.

  510. asoka August 30, 2010 at 2:14 am #

    Wage said: “You’re a despicable member of the US war machine, and you don’t have the decency to feel an ounce of guilt about it, nor feel a bit of sympathy for the victims.”
    You go, girl! You have described Q perfectly.
    I would add that he considers himself superior to his sister-in-law (who works at a credit union), and thinks he knows more about economics than she does. In fact, he probably wrongly thinks he is superior to most women. Despicable is the right word.

  511. wagelaborer August 30, 2010 at 2:23 am #

    Thank you, Asoka.
    My,my, Q’s smug self-satisfaction gets me riled up!
    His arrogance is unjustified!

  512. asoka August 30, 2010 at 3:06 am #

    Wage said: “Q’s smug self-satisfaction gets me riled up!
    His arrogance is unjustified!”
    Indeed it is. He continually “corrects” people’s grammar, spelling, etc.
    Yet, he has been corrected about the misuse of the word “your” instead of “you’re” several times, and he makes the same mistake over and over again.
    Then he accuses others of not caring about their posts enough to proofread them. He obviously does not care enough to proofread his own posts.
    I gave up correcting his grammar, usage, punctuation and spelling after the third or fourth time he repeated the same mistakes. After all, I’m not being paid to be his English teacher.
    Smug. Arrogant. Despicable. Petty. Immoral and uncaring. Lazy. So many possible word choices for Q. I could like him as a person … if he could put aside his smugness.

  513. mila59 August 30, 2010 at 9:03 am #

    Q: It’s “summarize.” At least I think it is!
    Funny about the wine — there are both spellings out there. I think yours looks to be of MUCH better quality than mine. 🙂

  514. progressorconserve August 30, 2010 at 9:04 am #

    Hey, man, go *hick* yourself!
    2 ? ?/dr?g/ Show Spelled[druhg] Show IPA
    –verb Chiefly Midland and Southern U.S. Nonstandard .
    a pt. and pp. of drag.
    And learn to appreciate regional variations in speech, while YOU’RE at it.

  515. Tim August 30, 2010 at 9:36 am #

    Y’all are making fun of all those fat tub ‘o lards out there. But–ask yourself–when the food supply line runs out, who is going to survive the longest?

  516. Qshtik August 30, 2010 at 9:45 am #

    Q: It’s “summarize.” At least I think it is!
    For me, in 2010 it’s “summerize” during 6/21 – 9/23 and “summarize” the rest of the time ;0)

  517. progressorconserve August 30, 2010 at 9:48 am #

    More things to look forward to if “la reconquista” is allowed to proceed.
    And certainly, this Mexican violence is drug related. And sure, the US is the source of the demand for drugs.
    But if we can’t control our own citizen’s drug use, we will NEVER control this violence when it crosses the border – and it will – and it already has, to some extent.

  518. Qshtik August 30, 2010 at 10:51 am #

    So you went from John Q Public to Steve Forbes companion in the same forum.
    Wage, you just don’t get it. When is the last time you smiled? Lemme guess: when Hinckley shot Reagan.
    You are a middle-aged (assuming you make it past a hundred) dour, unhappy and humorless woman, probably with little tits (Asia take note, that is an ad hominem) and I wonder how your husband stands you. Maybe you’re the breadwinner and he has no choice.
    You and Asoka providing one another verbal support – he’s your crutch and you’re his – is reminiscent of pathetic Jennie Rico always surrounding herself with imagined cyber soulmates.

  519. mika. August 30, 2010 at 11:10 am #

    Good assessment. I concur. The woman is a sad example of a human being. Petty, ugly, stupid, and on a power trip. I normally am against violence, but in her case I would not mind bruising my fist against her face.

  520. Qshtik August 30, 2010 at 11:16 am #

    I could like him as a person … if he could put aside his smugness.
    WOW! This is a breakthrough for Asoka. I hold a position neither Hitler nor Pol Pot could achieve … not even George W. Bush. I am the only person on earth that Asoka has ever suggested he does not “like as a person.” (Let’s face it, “could” is faint praise.) And, since I won’t be putting aside my smugness in this lifetime, I’m destined to hold this position forever. WHEW!

  521. RAW August 30, 2010 at 11:22 am #

    Ozone said, ‘one thing that drives me absolutely CRAZY is the general use of the word “lay” when people mean “lie.”‘
    Ozone, you must be more sensitive; a lot of religious people prefer not to “lie” so they “lay.” You’ll just have to get used to it.

  522. Qshtik August 30, 2010 at 11:37 am #

    I think this will explain it:
    This link appears to explain it.

  523. mika. August 30, 2010 at 12:11 pm #

    I wouldn’t waste my time with the that site. It’s a site of pure BS gov mafia propaganda. Money is flowing out of the US. It’s going somewhere. That somewhere is Asia. It’s that simple.