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The First Die-off

    Sunday, I got a taste of the oldest established permanent traffic fiasco in America known as Escape From Cape Cod.  This is not a regular thing for me.  I have no family there and never did.  Friends invited us out to an idyllic hidden corner of the place far from the clam bars filled with shrieking babies and other more typical attractions.  We arrived in good order at mid-week and had a fine time. Once installed, we didn’t get in a car for four days.
    Our strategy was to leave for home in upstate New York at 11 o’clock Sunday morning — a bright, hot day, as chance would have it —  thinking that the masses would elect to remain a few more hours at Vacation Central pointlessly towing the little ones around in circles on plastic inflatables behind motorboats before returning to the real world with all its foreclosure notices, canceled credit cards, re-po men hiding in the foundation plantings, and other woes of the day. The masses must be more massive these days than I ever imagined.  Apparently, you can fill Massachusetts Bay from end-to-end with watercraft and still have enough vacationers left to completely overwhelm the main highway off-Cape, Route 6, where we crawled in first gear all the way from Yarmouth to the Sagamore Bridge.
    One couldn’t help thinking, of course, how nice it would be if there was a choo-choo train that ran from Boston down the length of the Cape, but alas there is no more.  If any public official had entertained vagrant thoughts of re-starting it in recent decades, the idea was apparently dismissed as a species of heartburn.  Clam rolls, in excess, will do that to you. Then again, the rail service from Boston to Albany no longer exists, amazing as it seems, so the whole thought exercise was a waste of time. But it explains why we drove there in the first place.
    Anyway, we broke loose from traffic for a while on the mainland, but the little tie-up on Route 6 proved a mere hors d’oeuvre to the main course where I-495 joined up with the Mass Pike (I-90), and we ramped onto the peristaltic nightmare of a giant throbbing automotive fistula that pulsed 27 miles to I-84 west of Worcester, which drains the entire New England vacation-shed down to the great Moloch of New York City and its teeming outlands.  We, fortunately, were well-fueled-up and air cooled in my Toyota Tacoma pickup. But one couldn’t help imagining the horrors of those unlucky others who found themselves creeping on empty, in 91-degree heat, riding the clutch the whole way, with bladders expanded to the size of crenshaw melons.
    Once we busted through that monumental clusterfuck, it was a straight run home — except for a strange interlude at a Mass Pike rest stop, where people who looked like Thanksgiving Day parade balloons clutched armfuls of snack bags in their never-ending quest for fulfillment.  I began to think of them — prompted, I’m sure, by some malicious meme on the Web — as “the yeast people,” enormous one-celled creatures multiplying at an astronomical rate, soon to engulf the planet in a tragic reeking foam of yeast, and dooming the Earth to a fate worse than climate change….
    All this frightful hyperbole is really mere précis to my real point here, for those of you already acquainted with some of the classic “doomer” themes, which is that the first “die-off” of The Long Emergency will not be one of human beings but of our beloved automobiles.  Personally, I think the car die-off will come on with stunning rapidity as a combination of factors merge to make these colossal traffic jams staples of nostalgia in decades to come.  As usual, the public is clueless about this, gulled by a cretinous news media into the earnest expectation of endless techno-miracles.
    The funniest of these lately are the glad tidings from (“The New” ) General Motors. They came out last week with a laughable hype-fest for their proposed electric car, the “Volt,” scheduled to arrive in the showrooms around 2011 (about the same time that all the mortgage-backed-securities sitting in Wall Street’s vaults melt into a monumental puddle of radioactive goo). We’re told the Volt will get the equivalent of over 200 miles-per-gallon, at less than 25 cents a charge from the plug on your garage wall, blah blah.  They estimate that it’ll cost about $40,000.  Do we detect a little problem right there?  Like, the whole adult US population is going to rush out and buy new cars priced the same as today’s Mercedes Benz?  Good luck with that, GM, especially when money for car loans will be about as easy to get as a royal flush in online poker.  And good luck with changing out the battery for ten grand a couple of years down the road, so to speak. And good luck also with your expectation that the roads and bridges will remain drivable in the years ahead, as every municipality, and county, and state slides into bankruptcy and the paving machines sit rusting in the DOT marshaling yards.
    What is wrong with our brains?  Are they turning to yeast?
    And even if it were possible to continue torturing ourselves in three-hour traffic jams, is that something we would want to do?
    I’m serenely confident that we’re in the twilight of Happy Motoring now.  Without debt service there is no auto industry, and we’re toast where debt service is concerned.  All we can do now is give cars away, or give US citizens free money to buy them — which we are obviously already doing with “Cash for Clunkers” — which is additionally hilarious in the same nation that is deeply paranoid about the government giving anybody free health care.  What a nation of morons we have become.
    Then, of course, there is the political problem that nobody is thinking about, namely, what happens when a substantial portion of the public is permanently foreclosed from motoring because they’ve lost jobs and incomes and positions and vocations that they will never get back — ?  Do you think they’ll just hike down the breakdown lanes with colorful bundles on their heads like the impoverished folk in other lands?  Or will they put all those home arsenals to work?  I can’t wait to find out.

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James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

326 Responses to “The First Die-off”

  1. crisismode August 16, 2009 at 9:50 pm #

    Cob of corn,
    commonly used to feed pigs in feedlots of family farms,
    long before the industrialization of the corporate meat production business oozed itself into the American life.
    To wit . . .
    As a child growing up in a rural farming existence, I was charged with taking the corn cobs (stripped of the relevant kernels, of course), and feeding them to the hogs in the back lot. They loved them. And why not? The were organic and fresh.

  2. Urban_Underclass August 16, 2009 at 9:53 pm #

    Oh, that stuff you Americans make Cheeze Doodles out of, I thought you were offering me a small horse.
    I also grew up on a pig farm.

  3. crisismode August 16, 2009 at 10:07 pm #

    So, tell me about your pig farm upbringing?
    My Grandfather’s/Uncle’s farm was diverse. They had Cows, Pigs, Chickens, Goats, Wheat, Corn, Barley, Oats, Rye, Hemp, Rapeseed, Garden Vegetables, and other sundry and assorted natural crops. However, they never made a lot of money out of any of it, but my Grandfather did survive the Great Depression by carefully taking his money out of the Banks before they went bust, and then buying out foreclosed farms all around him for pennies on the dollar.
    I surmise you must have had a different growing-up experience?

  4. Urban_Underclass August 16, 2009 at 10:14 pm #

    I was born in London, which is a big city in England, but grew up in Ireland. When I was 12 years old my father, who was from an Irish farming background bought a ramshackle cottage with 8 acres and put a fairly intensive pig farm on it. We fed our pigs a barley based meal. Anyway, the venture was a financial disaster and I couldn’t stand the inhumane conditions that the pigs were kept in, so at 17 I left to join the urban underclass.

  5. arivahan August 16, 2009 at 10:18 pm #

    I wish I could comment on the article, but I have not been able to access it. anyone else encounter that problem?

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  6. crisismode August 16, 2009 at 10:20 pm #

    What I did learn from pig farming from my Grandfather and Uncle, is that the animals have to have a lot of free space to roam. Not unlike the concept of Free-Range for chickens or Free-Pasture for cattle.
    No animal wants to be confined to a small intensive space, just like no human wants that either.
    Nonetheless, I did learn that if you gave these animals more free space and gave them regular amounts of pretty cheap but home-grown vegetable-based chow, then their meat was very high quality and tastyh, and the farmer could sell it for a decent price.
    But, that was a long, long time ago.

  7. Urban_Underclass August 16, 2009 at 10:20 pm #

    I think this week’s article is pretty succinct.

  8. Urban_Underclass August 16, 2009 at 10:24 pm #

    We did (and my parents still do) grow organic vegetables there. Personally I eat only fish and very occasionally chicken. Meat is over-rated, it’s production is expensive in terms of resources needed and it is usually produced with much cruelty.

  9. albaz August 16, 2009 at 10:58 pm #

    slight correction: There is an Amtrak train from Boston to Albany (and back!) daily as part of the Lake Shore Limited. I have taken it many times.
    There are four others, I believe, that take about an hour longer (direct trip is over 5 hrs) but that require a change in New York.

  10. dale August 16, 2009 at 11:04 pm #

    Na…. Jim….”the car”….. being the Richard Nixon of transportation devices, will likely be here to kick around a lot longer then unconventional wisdom would suggest. Afterall, A car is the first thing any 18 year old third world immigrant wants when he lands here and the last thing any blind, 90 year old suburbanite will turn loose of before he dies.
    They will run em’ on brandy before they will take the bus. I mean…..have you seen pictures of Cuba recently?

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  11. Urban_Underclass August 16, 2009 at 11:07 pm #

    Mr. Kunstler,
    “…where people who looked like Thanksgiving Day parade balloons clutched armfuls of snack bags in their never-ending quest for fulfillment.”
    Very good, I really did laugh out loud. Worth waiting for this post. Yeast…yeah..I’ll remember that.

  12. Cthulhu August 16, 2009 at 11:31 pm #

    What? Your friends didn’t lend you their Cape Cod Tunnel permit?
    The bridges are too slow.

  13. Laura Louzader August 16, 2009 at 11:38 pm #

    Actually, dozens of people in my personal radius would ditch their cars in a heartbeat if they could get to their suburban jobs and fulfill other necessary life-errands without a car.
    I ditched my car 22 years ago, when I moved to Chicago to be within easy reach of 24/7 transportation. But it’s easy for me, for I’m a single, childless woman who needn’t bother her head about the quality of the schools and who can take a job that pays rather less because the difference is much more than offset by freedom from auto expenses.
    Just try doing without a car in this country, even here in the city, when your kid must be driven to school because the streets are unsafe for him to wait for a bus on, and when you must run a gauntlet of child-centered errands. Try doing without one when you own a house on one side of town and the only job available to you is in some distant suburb clear at the other end of the area.
    How much longer can even I rely on Chicago’s once-excellent public transit? Unfortunately, we have a mayor who considers public transit unimportant except as it relates to making the city attractive to the International Olympics Committee. Thus, there is an impetus to build an outrageously expensive and unnecessary express line to O’Hare when both O’Hare and Midway are already served by CTA rail lines that run downtown….yet the CTA is considering cutting Owl service on the hugely traveled Red and Blue lines, which each haul 125,000 passengers a day, even though this would put 40,000 more cars on the street.
    Circuses and subsidies for business are important to our leaders. Health care, transportation, and essential infrastructure are not. Most of our leaders, like the fat, corrupt moron who runs Chicago, would rather throw the remaining wealth of their cities at some idiotic athletic event than consider what it will take to make their cities resilient in the face of ongoing deep recession coupled with a 5 to 15% drop in available liquid fuels.
    The real morons in this country are not the “masses” but our policy makers, political leaders, and many of our top business leaders.
    The money that has been spent by state and local governments to subsidize redundant Big Box retail could have bought every town and city in this country at least a couple of bus lines. Never mind the $14 billion a year tossed at private air carriers, or the many tens of billions to build 10-lane megahighways through the Great Nowhere out west, or for water reclamation projects to make it possible to support a community of 4 million people on the high desert, while livable old cities with a lot of built beauty remaining in them and favorable locations on major waterways, like St. Louis, Cleveland, Detroit, Memphis, Camden, get trashed to build places like Phoenix and Las Vegas.
    Trust me, most people out here have a good sense of what has gone wrong. They feel pushed from one deteriorating suburb to yet another much further out, as employers locate campuses 50 miles out of the city, nowhere near transportation, and their existing communities are trashed. They feel they have no choice in the matter, just as millions of people felt they had no choice about leaving the city neighborhoods they loved and that four generations of their families had lived in, back in the 50s, when our government redlined every city neighborhood and let the schools be trashed, while dedicating the wealth generated in those cities to destroying them and building the auto suburbs.

  14. Donny-Don August 16, 2009 at 11:56 pm #

    “I’m serenely confident that we’re in the twilight of Happy Motoring now.”
    Poor James Howard Kunstler. He keeps predicting The End of The World as We Know It; indeed he has been doing so on a weekly basis since at least 1999 (when he predicted that Y2K was going to result in a massive global clusterfuck economic meltdown). And yet things continue to muddle on. Amazing.
    I enjoy Kunstler’s lively prose and I generally agree with his long-term prognosis regarding the unsustainable tragectory that American society is on. But, goddamn it, having people like Kunstler out there on a weekly basis insisting that the Big Global Collapse is only days away provides fodder to the Status Quodidians that people like us are a bunch of foolish, Sky-is-Falling Luddites.
    Yes, it is inevitable that the energy-intensive, suburban model of U.S. “growth” cannot sustain itself for another generation or two. But in the meantime, coal production continues unabated, known natural gas reserves in the U.S. have doubled in just the past decade, and the economic slowdown has resulted in a petroleum surplus unlike any we have seen in a decade. Not exactly signs of an immediate energy collapse.
    While readers of this page eagerly anticipate the collapse of Walmart and the implosion of suburbia, I see a system that (unfortunately) has enough momentum and cheap energy available to continue its cancerous growth for another decade, at least. Sad but true.
    I wish, as Kunstler suggests, that the whole tottering system is on its last legs. Alas, it only seems to be getting its second wind right about now. Look at the whole new automobile-driving, electricity-consuming, buregoning middle class of China. Globally, I’m afraid, things are going to get worse before they get better.
    Rather than breathlessly predict that the End is Around the Corner, I suggest we work toward more livable, low-impact societies in for their own sake and in order to be prepared for the inevitable day — in 10 or 20 years, maybe? — when the shit really IS going to hit the fan.
    But we’re not there yet. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be agitating for a New Society. In fact, it means there’s all the more reason to do so, while we have the energy and the creativity and the time.

  15. Urban_Underclass August 17, 2009 at 12:23 am #

    I live in a country that a few years ago was coming in the top five in the world in terms of wealth and quality of life in survey after survey.
    My country is now facing utter economic ruin. I don’t think we are alone.
    I don’t see a system with any momentum around me. I see politicians who really look like they are staring into the abyss. I meet business people who a few years ago were living like princes who have now laid off all their staff and are desperately trying to liquidate any assets they have and I see a long and getting longer queue outside the welfare office where a few years ago there was no queue.
    You wrote,
    “I suggest we work toward more livable, low-impact societies in for their own sake and in order to be prepared for the inevitable day — in 10 or 20 years, maybe? — when the shit really IS going to hit the fan.”
    Which sounds good, but where I live the shit is already splattered everywhere.

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  16. mika. August 17, 2009 at 1:12 am #

    gov health care program = welfare for monopoly corporations
    This health care scam is just another power grab by the central control corruptockrats and their pay masters in the international corporate mafia. You really need to stop supporting these fscks. They are nothing but merchants of devastation and expropriation. Do not buy into their partisan theater.
    Kleptocracy, systemic corruption, central currency, banking fraud, debt peonage, high taxes, extractive resource theft, environmental terrorism, jackboot corporate imperialism, brazen militarism, these are all spokes on the wheels of the great fascist neo-feudal neo-Roman imperial wagon. And it’s all bad news.
    I know you’re intelligent enough to see this.

  17. Patrizia August 17, 2009 at 2:26 am #

    “I’m serenely confident that we’re in the twilight of Happy Motoring now.”
    I agree.
    It won’t be so fast, because great changes need to be done by the majority, and the majority always arrives to the point a little bit later…
    But you centered the problem.
    It is not only a matter of cost and availability of fuel, or a matter of pollution.
    If it was just that it could be solved.
    It is a matter of having too many cars and life being hell.
    When it takes hours to drive a mile, compared to minutes with the train, no matter how much it costs, I would prefer the train.
    Because I, as you, can rationally see the importance and the beauty to live a decent life, which is not working more to have more money to spend, but having enough time to do the things we like.
    When you reach a certain age you realize suddenly that life is terribly short and you have more unfulfilled dreams than time.
    Things are precious when they are scarce.
    Time is one of the few things in life you cannot buy and in front of which being a poor or a millionaire doesn’t make any difference.

  18. cowswithguns August 17, 2009 at 2:28 am #

    “Do you think they’ll just hike down the breakdown lanes with colorful bundles on their heads like the impoverished folk in other lands? Or will they put all those home arsenals to work?” –JHK
    That’s the big question. But if melees and protests (Tea Parties don’t count) haven’t broken out over the AIG bonuses, the Goldman bonuses, the apparent demise of single-payer health care, the Federal Reserve’s weekly “up yours” to skeptical politicians, and the bailouts to finance Wall St. gambling, the sheeple are likely ready for a bolt to the temple.
    They’re more likely to see the problem, which they helped create and refused to do something about, as a sign of the times. They’d rather accept Jay C into their hearts and die of scurvy than live in a world without processed corn snacks.
    That self-fulfilling prophesy shit is a bitch!

  19. Donal August 17, 2009 at 4:23 am #

    We’d all like to see less cars on the road, if only so WE can get to where we want to go!
    But without viable alternative transportation in the USA to cars and planes, it’s hard to comprehend the impact of, say, doubling of the oil price, leave alone the economic projections of $250 or even $400 a barrel levels in 3 or 4 years time which would equate to around $11 and $20 a gallon for gas in the U.S.
    Europe typically pays $8 a gallon now, but also has high-speed rail links and generally excellent public transport networks as alternative choices. For example it’s about the same price to take the 220mph train from Paris to Cote d’Azur as to fly, so the future impact of high oil prices is lessened.
    Don’t you guys worry about how vulnerable and exposed you are to the oil price?

  20. Quieteyes August 17, 2009 at 4:44 am #

    You mention how you wonder if people will take up violence…the sad part is that the folks most likely to have a “Columbine moment” are not John and Jane Schmuck. Both John and Jane are so whipped, so housebroken, that the best response they will muster is “lie down and die peacefully.”
    Rather, look to Freddy Fruitcake and Casey Conspiracy-Theorist to start hunkering down, all early-80’s survivalist-style in concrete bunkers (if they haven’t already).
    It will be a subtle irony that the people to bust a cap into a Goldman-Sachs CEO are also the ones that think black helicopters are coming for them.

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  21. so left i'm right August 17, 2009 at 5:22 am #

    ah, the electric car. Has anyone thought about how all the air conditioning and heat/defrost will suck battery life?
    Just imagine Jim’s weekend trip in an electric… Crank up the AC and get all of 15 minutes of battery life. Want to see out your frozen window up there in Cap Cod this winter? Crank up the heat and defroster and get maybe 10 minutes.
    But the Volt will save us! not.

  22. steck August 17, 2009 at 6:27 am #

    There may no longer be a rail line along the Cape, but there is a fast ferry between Provincetown and Boston. In the summer of 2003, and friend and I bicycled from South Boston to Provincetown, had some seafood and a beer or two, then took the ferry back. A perfect summer day, that was.

  23. sprezzatura August 17, 2009 at 7:41 am #

    It might be important to mention that there is not enough electrical capacity to replace all the energy consumed by automobiles burning gasoline and diesel.
    Oh, I forgot — we’re going to build thousands of nuclear plants.

  24. silverdoctor August 17, 2009 at 7:56 am #

    Sorry for off topic, but is anybody beside me having horrible problems with accessing prior comments (like from June posts) on this blog???
    The ‘comments panel’ of this blog is acting very crazy. And for what it’s worth, the current software this blog is running has to be **the very worst** I’ve ever seen, or used. ever.
    Sad, because the content of Jim’s blog is one reason I so look forward to Monday morning.
    The old “Typepad” was infinitely superior, and I wish it were back. Anything but this.

  25. cjryan2006 August 17, 2009 at 8:02 am #

    This summer’s vacation season driving fiesta seems exacerbated by the former frequent flyers who now can’t afford the trip out to the Grand Canyon anymore and must sweat out the road trip like the rest of us. Gas is still a hell of a lot cheaper than last year’s spike during the Olympics so maybe this is the last great summer migration. Maybe next year we’ll see everyone on overloaded Vespa’s.

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  26. wolfcall August 17, 2009 at 8:31 am #

    So, Mr. Kunstler your weekend drive home sounds fairly normal to me. I live in the Detroit area and returning from the weekend “up north” down I-75 during the warm months is always a chore.
    But this weekend was a bit different than others. We had the Woodward Avenue Dream Cruise which is advertised as the largest classic car cruise on the planet, and it probably is. So, instead of the traffic returning to the metro area from other parts, we had traffic coming into the area.
    This gathering of classic cars to drive up and down Woodward Avenue (incidentally, Woodward was the first paved road in the US) as a sort of memory lane of hot cars, drive-ins, cruising, etc., always makes me laugh a bit as it really is nothing of the sort. It really is just one big traffic jam. Bumper to bumper old cars hoping not to overheat in the 90 degree weather.
    Now, it wasn’t all bad. There is a certain historical curiosity to the wide variety of cars stretching from the 1920s until the 1980s that were produced around the world and gather together for one big clusterfuck traffic jam. Unfortunately, the vast majority of those vehicles don’t have catalytic converters, so it can be rather chocking, particularly on a 90 degree day.
    I’ve wondered if in the future you expect whether events like The Woodward Avenue Dream Cruise (we have several others in the Detroit area) will continue to exist. I suspect that they will go on forever. People will save up their money all year to purchase highly expensive gasoline just to keep their hot rods and ancient road warriors chugging along simply for these show-off events. And the non-owners will visit (today, people sit in lawn chairs along the side of Woodward to watch all day) in memory of days gone by. It will be a rolling museum and might actually be more fun in that future than it is today.

  27. katnip kid August 17, 2009 at 8:35 am #

    The summer vacation traffic jam in New England,how that brings back the unpleasant memories. I was born and raised on the shore there. Before the oil shocks of the ’70’s, it was so bad those of us on foot were unable to cross the road in our small town! Many folk never liked summer people, or those from the city who maintained second homes for use only in the summer. I use to wish for a time when oil and cars would be scarce, or even vanish, just to have a peaceful summer at the shore.
    I always said what I want is great mass transit systems,and greater concentration of jobs and shopping NOT sprawl. Maybe someday.

  28. Al Klein August 17, 2009 at 8:50 am #

    Here’s why you may be wrong, Donny Don. You are assuming that the process of the disintegration of “Happy Motoring” is continuous and independent. The reason Jim Kunstler is so sure of his viewpoint is because he sees the confluence of events and knows that change is sometimes gradual, but then, sometimes it is sudden. Phase changes are sudden. Water doesn’t turn to ice gradually. So, Don, for the most part you view that change is occurring gradually is not foolish. But it still can be quite incorrect. Consider the fellow who jumps out of the window on the 40th story. As he passes by the 10th story, another guy shouts out “How’s it going?” To which he replies, “So far so good!” So much for gradualism, eh?

  29. wardoc August 17, 2009 at 8:59 am #

    They will put the home arsenals to work; no doubt, no question.
    When joe and jane sixpack finally realize that their jobs are not coming back, that their kids are going to have a far more bleak future than had been fantasized, that they have no healthcare, that their credit cards have all been canceled, and the bank is foreclosing on their McMansion AND their cars, THEY WILL LOSE IT. And when they lose it, we will see a crime wave the likes of which we’ve never imagined; and at the same time municipalities are scaling back and laying off cops.
    Think Argentina 2003. The unemployed cops kept their uniforms and used them for home invasions and cover for thefts, kidnapping became a part time job for thousands, and neighborhoods that could afford it became midieval fortresses. And that was in a society FAR less entitled than ours. Oh boy!!!

  30. budizwiser August 17, 2009 at 9:00 am #

    JK – I don’t get it. The “first die off” as a title seems a little misplaced.
    And several readers have made comments that reflect the more general consensus among prognosticators that of course the future use of automobiles will be different – but there will be a future for automobiles.
    Worth noting is how much more important the “economy” is with respect to mass consumption of resources than the simple math of how many people are using how many cars. And within this line of reasoning is where we see a huge curtailing of various forms of rubber ever to hit various forms of new roads.
    I think we all need to face the “new reality.” The powerful interests that partly control our governments and our civilization have reached the limits of making money from the “use up all the oil” model.
    And the logical method of slowing the direct consumption of these products that require petroleum intensive input is to destroy the spending power of the “richest country” on earth.
    We have only just begun to scratch the surface of destroying “discretionary consumption” of petroleum intensive products. Auto sales, the first demonstrative lesson of lost discretionary income, will soon be followed by similar reports of losses from other sectors, such boat sales, airline revenues and anything else that requires an outlay larger than cheese-doodles or salad-shooters.
    It should come as no surprise that the so-called “free market” will arrange a gradual PO down-slope rather than a cliff.
    And although we wish for some seminal moment of a collective national consciousness to somehow stem the powerful and the greedy from destroying the worthwhile parts of our standards of living; I’m afraid that “just not in the cards” for Joe Sixpack, nor his hard working buddy, Joe the Plumber.
    So you see, so long as our governments respond only to those who seek profits, as opposed to those who want to actually “invest” in the future – the course will be to destroy all consumption through adjusting the money supply upward while diminishing the average American’s ability to use their current income levels for discretionary consumption of petroleum.
    The new model is to “aim” consumers at “green energy” enough to keep them from realizing how the “Wall Street green power$” have coaxed Washington into destroying your standard of living as the only means to avoid PO.
    The direct effects of PO – won’t be seen for some time. The “economic melt-down” is sure to obscure and confuse any arguments surrounding what caused what.
    Which is the “horse” and which is the “cart.” Don’ know, don’t care – my job is to become poor and ignore both.

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  31. Peter Wang August 17, 2009 at 9:36 am #

    Back in the day (1979) when I lived in Providence, I went out with some buddies for a long weekend on Cape Cod. There were campfires, clambakes, ice cream, kissing, and it was all done on a bicycle, so we missed all of the car traffic. I think it was the best weekend of my life.

  32. thomas99 August 17, 2009 at 9:40 am #

    Hey Jimbo, I thought your ’72 Toyota pickup was going to be your last? Now I see you’re crusin’ in a Toyota Tacoma…what’s it good for, about 16 mpg tops?

  33. Stephen_B August 17, 2009 at 9:44 am #

    Coincidentally, I too was on Cape Cod yesterday, having traveled to Falmouth on business. My ride home up Rt. 28 and over the Bourne Bridge, as opposed to the Sagamore at 3:30 in the afternoon was completely uneventful. I hit a 2 minute delay at the rotary right before the bridge and then it was smooth sailing right up I-495 to 95 to my home near Foxboro. (Such a route fell short of the Mass Pike and spared me any horrors that Jimmy and friends suffered.)
    By the way, I don’t mention my easy Cape trip to prove Jimmy wrong. In fact, I think that he is right. I think that the car IS on the way out. Normally, up until a few years ago, even the Bourne bridge would be all backed up at its rotary on a summer Sunday Cape exodus, but I think Cape patronage was down enough, even given this weekend’s fantastic summer weather, to spare the Bourne some traffic. (The Bourne Bridge is the slightly less used of the two automobile bridges connecting Cape Cod over the Canal, to the mainland.) It’s just that the Mid-Cape Highway and Sagamore are SO completely over subscribed on a day such as yesterday, one can cut the traffic 10 to 20% and the improvement to the casual observer wouldn’t even be noticeable. Just give it a bit more time.
    I don’t usually go near the Cape on a summer weekend anymore myself, but had the occasion to visit a school for delinquent boys in Woods Hole. I fear the great unwinding we are starting to witness will take such schools and their funding completely down the drain, but that’s another matter.
    By the way their is a rail line from Boston to the Cape still. In fact, the Army Corps of Engineers (operators of the Canal) just finished a major overhaul and refurbishing of the impressive cable lift railroad drawbridge over the Canal a few years ago. The rail line presently goes down the Cape a bit further than Hyannis, though it used to go all the way to Provincetown. The last miles of said railroad saw conversion to a highly used bike trail some years back. Amtrak did try Cape Cod service from New York City up until about 10 or 15 years ago, but lack of use, and funding cut it off. Periodically there is talk of Massachusetts itself funding a new train, but that has gone nowhere.
    On the other hand, there is pretty excellent bus service via Peter Pan (formerly Bonanza) out of Boston’s South Station to virtually all points on the Cape (with connections to Albany too come to think of it.) http://www.peterpanbus.com/ but of course the bus’d have been stuck in the traffic over the main bridge too.
    Perhaps when a few bridges fail on Rt 3 and the Commonwealth no longer has the funds to repair them, companies like Peter Pan will buy up a few rail cars and relocate their bus service to the rails.

  34. Stephen_B August 17, 2009 at 9:49 am #

    I should correct one point. It isn’t Peter Pan Bus Lines that has service from Boston to all over the Cape. That would be Plymouth and Brockton Street Railway (bus line.) http://www.p-b.com/ Peter Pan, having bought Bonanza’s old routes, goes only to Bourne/Falmouth/Woods Hole where I was. Still, they both originate in Boston’s most excellent South Station where there is also plenty of bus service to and from Albany, along with at least the Lake Shore Limited Amtrak train, though I don’t know how a bus/train schedule would mesh.

  35. tsl August 17, 2009 at 9:57 am #

    Hope you used all the time wisely practicing your French and all the verses of La Marseillaise.

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  36. georget August 17, 2009 at 9:59 am #

    There’s a simple way to determine if widespread Happy Motoring is still going to be around for awhile:
    You, the king of Anti-Happy Motoring, were out Happy Motoring down the road, burning a significant amount of fossil fuel, not to take care of some important productive errand, but to go hang out at the beach, far from your home, sip some beers and snack on snacks,that by the way, had to be at least one step up from cheeze doodles.
    We have met the enemy and it is us.
    Happy Motoring!

  37. SNAFU August 17, 2009 at 10:19 am #

    Glad to see that JHK has addressed the idiocy of the highly vaunted “electric/hybrid” vehicles.
    For some time I have suggested to family, friends and acquaintances that the concept of using semi exotic batteries to store energy to power electric vehicles is based upon economic lunacy. I use the Tesla Roadster battery information, readily available on-line, to bolster this contention. Tesla Motors describes their 450 kilogram battery pack as composed of “about” 6800 form-factor 18650 Li-ion cells in their pdf document “The Tesla Roadster Battery System”, wikipedia specifies that there are 6831 cells in the battery pack. The cheapest retail price per 18650 cell I found on-line was about $9-$10 each from China. When I worked for GM at Rochester Products, very early in my employed career, the OEM price for an average priced carburetor was about 15% of what local autoparts retailers were charging; therefore, using a simple minded extrapolation I estimate that Tesla likely obtains the cells for about $1.35-$1.50 each. This results in a total cost for the cells in a Tesla battery pack of about $9250-$10250; this does not include the price of the assembling, packaging and incorporation of safety electrical and electronic equipment to preclude the burning of roadsters similarly to the burning of laptops. Likelihood is the Tesla cost for a completed battery pack is in the range of $15,000-$20,000 which will likely result in a retail replacement price of $30,000-$40,000 in today’s dollars and perhaps $5,000-$10,000 more in a few years when the first battery replacements are necessitated. I can hear the economists now “when the mass production of the Li-ion cells really hits its’ stride the prices will fall”. Agreed for an industry in it’s infancy ; however, since billions of these cells have been manufactured one would be forced to view this as a mature industry which might see some cost reduction but just as likely might see cost increases especially as the consumption of difficult/expensive to recover lithium skyrockets to accommodate the rush to electric vehicles. One would expect that as with conventional lead acid batteries the reclamation of expended Li-ion cells will also become universal; however, this will come not close to satisfying the demand for new cells to power more and more electric vehicles as well as all of the existing electronic toys and those to undoubtedly be invented.
    The best guess I could find for the GM Volt battery pack OEM cost is about $10,000 per GM’s estimate of $600-$700 per KWH and their estimate of a 16 KWH battery to be built for the Volt yielding about $20,000 for a replacement battery pack which GM estimates to have about a 6 year life span.
    Every 6 years electric vehicle drivers can expect to replace the batteries at a cost of 30-50% of the new cost of the vehicles. Likelihood is that the original owners will anticipate this cost and attempt to divest themselves of their electric vehicles just prior to battery replacement time. Think that may affect the trade in value? How about the private party reselling of used electric vehicles still running with their initial battery packs?

  38. bahmi August 17, 2009 at 10:29 am #

    I, for one, cannot ever see where turning over 1/6th of the US economy could be considered acceptable. Health issues notwithstanding, I could never, ever let a power hungry President and his bunch get their hands on both the health industry and accessory industries like agriculture, Slenderella dealerships, and the like. I won’t belabor the fact I think Obama sucks as a person and President, but I don’t want this narcissist putting his paws all over this complex part of our lives and economy. Some people hate when writers mention the big nosed guy with the moustache who preached about National Socialism being so great….the next day after his being crowned chancellor, totalitarianism started with a bang and we all know the rest of the story. I, for one, also wonder what it means for Obama to surround himself with Israel hating Jews like Emmanuel and Axelrod. Yet, I find it refreshing, a little bit, to note that not all Democratic senators and Reps think Obama is infallible and a deity.

  39. Dave Eriqat August 17, 2009 at 10:44 am #

    I empathize with your recent hellish driving experience. Back in June I took a trip which took me through Los Angeles. Here’s what I wrote then:
    “I embarked on a little road trip today. Even in this day of dwindling energy and prosperity, I still find it refreshing to take to the road, aimlessly and carefree. Departing San Diego around noon, I felt I’d be able to skate through Los Angeles between the lunchtime and evening rush hours. What a fantasy! I should have recalled that rush hour in Los Angeles runs all day and all night long, merely segueing from intolerable to sanity-taxing during the barely discernible “rush hours.” The only time I can recall getting through Los Angeles without coming to numerous complete stops on the freeway was once about fifteen years ago around three in the morning.
    “Inching along ten lanes of parking lot for an hour or so gives one plenty of time to ponder some of life’s weighty questions, such as what good is the $300,000 sports car to my left, capable of going 200 MPH, in a mess like this? Or the utility of the gargantuan SUV on my other side, preposterously jacked up three feet off the ground, apparently so it can drive right over mountains. Its dust-free, sparkling detail job belies such speculation, however, suggesting instead that about the closest that hulking SUV will ever get to climbing over a mountain is cresting the Mulholland grade, many miles ahead yet. Then there’s the unfinished skeleton of a massive new building smooshed right up against the jam-packed freeway, so close it could literally topple onto the freeway in a strong earthquake. The irony of more development beside an already over-congested freeway evidently escapes those responsible for such development.
    “The worst thing about driving through Los Angeles in heavy traffic is the uncertainty of it all. Is the stop-and-go ride going to last just a few miles, or will it persist for sixty miles? Not that one really has any alternatives if they are simply passing through like me. In an effort to address this uncertainty the city has installed computerized displays along the freeway, which kindly inform drivers how many minutes it will take to reach a particular landmark ahead. The only trouble is that they are spaced so far apart that in heavy traffic like this one only passes one of these signs every half hour or so, which doesn’t do much to ameliorate one’s uncertainty. One would think that a city known for glitz, glamor and the movies could come up with a snazzier, more entertaining system for keeping drivers informed, especially since drivers here spend so much time sitting in their idling cars with nothing to do except inhale exhaust fumes. The advertising potential with such a captive audience would easily pay for the capital investment required! (More …)
    It’s like that every day in LA, not just on holidays. Cruel as this sounds, I honestly hope gasoline goes up substantially in price, as that is the only way people will stay off the roads. By the way, I try to drive my car no more frequently than every three days or so. I accumulate my automobile errands and get them done in one day, and then park the car for two days. It would be really nice if on those days that I go out to do my errands I didn’t have to schedule my time around the various rush hours. To that extent, I look forward to a “die-off” of the automobile.
    Dave – Erstwhile Urban Wanderer

  40. Andrew August 17, 2009 at 10:47 am #

    I don’t think Happy Motoring is leaving us soon. There are still a few rounds of Techno-Fantasies to go though (e.g. The GM Volt). What will likely happen sooner is the sharpening of class boundaries within the illusion of a classless society. The rising crime rate, the balkanization of the US, and the local property tax losses impacting police/fire services will be the next stages. The irony is that this next round of issues will totally distract us from peak oil. Someone else on this blog commentary mentioned the problems in Argentina when their economy and currency collapsed. I suggest getting a copy of “The Take” by Avi Lewis and Naomi Klein and just simply observe how people adapted to their new reality.

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  41. Andrew August 17, 2009 at 10:51 am #

    Good comment – I would also chime in on “peak lithium”. I recall their are only a few sources in world – and some commentators have suggested that this techno-fantasy only substitutes peak oil of peak lithium.

  42. Tomcat16 August 17, 2009 at 11:04 am #

    Somehow I figured you were a ‘Toyota’ man. Just good common sense and they last forever.
    What? No rail service from Boston to Albany? I rode that route only a few years ago, and yes, “Cash for Clunkers” is the most ludicrous program the gov has come up with in quite some time – just the name alone…
    I agree with Andrew’s post that the next thing we’ll start seeing is the sharpening of class boundaries and “The Take” is very instructive reading.

  43. heckler August 17, 2009 at 11:08 am #

    All we can do now is give cars away, or give US citizens free money to buy them — which we are obviously already doing with “Cash for Clunkers” — which is additionally hilarious in the same nation that is deeply paranoid about the government giving anybody free health care. What a nation of morons we have become.

    Exactly. All the morons complaining about socialized medicine don’t seem to realize we already have socialized capitalism.
    Question for Jim: Are you willing to admit that you were duped when you put on a mini-skirt and waved pompoms for Obama? Any regrets about being a cheerleader for the ho for the auto industry?

  44. Michael August 17, 2009 at 11:17 am #

    Do you have to insist on giving us that one-shot dose of immediate death warnings every week? Every single event in the course of the decade, in JHK’s opinion, has pointed unambiguously toward the apocalypse. Of course the volt is gonna be expensive – it’s a first generation technology. Do you really expect them to pump out a $10,000 car?

  45. TotalMayhem August 17, 2009 at 11:21 am #

    since there aren’t many success stories these days, i thought i post this little gem to cheer you up.:
    “Blackstone Group LP Chief Executive Officer Stephen Schwarzman’s $702 million compensation made him the highest-paid executive in the U.S. last year, the Corporate Library reported.”
    almost $2.000.000 a day? that’s not too shabby. 🙂
    p.s.: as always, i thoroughly enjoyed my weekly dose of doom ‘n’ gloom from JHK.

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  46. Hooting August 17, 2009 at 11:24 am #

    The “Cash for Clunkers” program is working so well that I don’t see what’s holding us back from a “Cash for Grandma” program for health care reform. I haven’t really talked it over with my diabetic, ailing heart mom, but getting her, and others like her, off the planet, would be such a boost to the economy…

  47. Jaego Scorzne August 17, 2009 at 11:24 am #

    Yes we are heading for some interesting disasters, but unfortunately, they may not finish us off. We may be left half alive, death in life, limping, crawling, and hopping in a vaguely crepuscular, Innsmouthean way. The future may be a combination of corporate fascism a la Rollerball, and environmental degredation as depicted in the movie Blade Runner. It’s dark all the time, all the people are dark, and high tech and luxury exist but only for the few. The steets are filled with coolies riding bicycles; any and all Whites who can have gotten out. Any tall, beautiful White you see is probably an android. Is this the future we want?
    From another angle: the changes we need to make all depend on “social capital” which Robert Putnam now admits is erroded by mass immigration. His solution? Bring in only high IQ immigrants who are more “ethnically sophisticated”. This begs the question of why do we need more at all when White engineers and IT people are out of work. And yes, smart people do get along better with other groups, but that doesn’t mean they have assimilated. The Chinese and Indians are very ethnocentric. To imagine that that most of them will give up their identity for a meaningless American one is ridiculous. Why would they give up their cultures which are thousands of years old to assimilate to culture that’s clearly dying? The fact that they are here at all is the best reason not to assimilate. If we were healthy and viable, they wouldn’t be here. They know that and that makes them colonists not immigrants. One is left with the impression that Putnam and company are still clinging to an agenda that is unexamined or at least not admitted. To wit: the dispossesion of the White Man and the death of his Culture. To which they must be asked to explain themselves in a very simple direct way such as, “Why do you hate the West?” And, “Why do you desire the extinction of the White Race?” And the posters here who support such things might ask themselves the same questions.

  48. ozone August 17, 2009 at 11:32 am #

    Exellent “insiders” conjecture there, Ken.
    That sure pops the ol’ techno-bubble thinkin’, don’t it?
    Ties in perfectly with JHK’s:
    “Without debt service there is no auto industry, and we’re toast where debt service is concerned. All we can do now is give cars away, or give US citizens free money to buy them — which we are obviously already doing with “Cash for Clunkers” — which is additionally hilarious in the same nation that is deeply paranoid about the government giving anybody free health care. What a nation of morons we have become.”
    (Glad to see battery idiocy mentioned in the article, as well)
    Morons indeed. As much as I try to prepare for this rampant imbecility [every day, really I do!], it always takes me by surprise! I certainly wish it didn’t, as I used to pride myself on being a tolerant person. (Pride goeth before….hmmm, what was that now? ;o) )
    I’m beginning to see just how dangerous self-delusion can be; more of the “folks” are opening their pie-holes, and listening [and thinking] a lot less. It’s disturbing what the babbling is revealing. I mean, c’mon, I’ve been a blue-collar working guy all my life, and heard some pretty outrageous things from co-workers, but there used to be some common sense applied here and there. I’m just not seeing that anymore; madness is truly imminent, as the masses seem to want to hold two [or more] diametrically opposing viewpoints in their Grand-Theft-Auto-saturated heads at the same time…
    Meantime, the politicians are waving distractions at us to keep us from seeing behind the curtain. Why, Heavens! We might actually see who’s shafting us (and the politicos hands in it). ‘Can’t have THAT, now can we?

  49. Jaego Scorzne August 17, 2009 at 11:38 am #

    I bought a rail pass last summer and intended to tour the whole country. But not only can you not go from Boston to Albany but you can’t go from San Francisco to Seattle-you have to get on several busses. You get there-eventually. And whole parts of the country I couldn’t get to at all-the wait for tickets was weeks long. There is a desperate need for more lines to be built from the Northeast to the Southeast. On my schedule, I couldn’t get to the Carolinas and Virginia at all.

  50. Squander N. Blunderbush August 17, 2009 at 12:01 pm #

    When I say I LOVE the man…I mean it.
    He is the epitome of the guy who foresees disaster.
    Loved The Long Emergency…and A World Made By Hand.
    I’ve come to understand that the apocalyptic vision is extraordinarily satisfying, religious or secular.
    It fails in only one way, by misrepresenting the vigor and imagination of humans.
    I love the doom and gloom. I’ve been a summer resident in Maine with all the dreams and schemes of any Maine lover…shall I raise goats? Chickens?
    Do I need more land (can’t seem to mow what we have)…and yet…long for the stimulation of NYC…even Boston.
    So. I’m sorry that the Old Man had a traffic jam on Mass Pike…we used to come down from the Catskills in the previous decades and were exhausted after the trip. Horrifying traffic on the Tappan Zee…and such.
    Still…Going against the flow and not traveling on the weekends seems to be the berries…so far.
    Don’t find us in Maine. We’re not on the map.
    Don’t think you can ice-chop enough to live here in the winter under five feet of snow.

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  51. chris August 17, 2009 at 12:10 pm #

    last year flew into San Diego, took amtrak to
    San Clemente, walked up the hill to a motel
    overlooking the Pacific. Took OCTA to San Juan
    Capistrano and Laguna. Used San Diego Transit to
    visit La jolla and The Scripps Aquarium and even
    made it across to Coronado. All the transport I rode on was clean and comfortable and my wife
    who is definitely not a transit advocate could
    not find much wrong with the systems we used.
    It can be done….exert pressure on your politicians.
    BTW as a Canadian just had a week in hospital
    double angioplasty, drug regime etc…total cost
    $12 for my telephone use!! Yes I paid my taxes but
    I will willingly do so over again!!

  52. lsjogren August 17, 2009 at 12:18 pm #

    The predominate alternative mode of transportation of the future:
    Not going anywhere in the first place.

  53. seb August 17, 2009 at 12:20 pm #

    Kunstler’s blog today is bare-bones. It contains the internal advertisement, alike to the word with a secret letter in it that cries out to be read, by telling you others are clueless, and you are “informed”. I’m sorry, but you lick ballsacks. I nominate W, Q, J, and of course, X.
    “The First Die-off” is a ripoff. Just so you’ll know. To reiterate, it contains the internal persuasion that you are getting the straight scoop here, thus:
    “Personally, I think the car die-off will come on with stunning rapidity as a combination of factors merge to make these colossal traffic jams staples of nostalgia in decades to come. As usual, the public is clueless about this, gulled by a cretinous news media into the earnest expectation of endless techno-miracles.”
    I would have enjoyed having him elucidate progress in the “combination of factors”; That’s bad writing. It is like turning in an essay with “too numerous to mention” in it. This type of unspoken assertion is designed to obfuscate arguing against it.
    Is there anything wrong with that? Well, yeah. We are thinking about our nation as “Clusterfuck Nation” and if we prevail and gain converts, that nation is highly subject to get nuclear. I, for one, would not blame it; dealing with people’s opinions on the Internet all day, I know how it feels.
    Why isn’t what I said similarly anthropomorphic? a little, but there is C.I.A. The movie with Matt Damon has an exchange: “We don’t call it ‘the C.I.A.’ You don’t call God ‘the God’. You might be something, but we’re the United States of America.”
    Notice around you on the Internet that Peak Oil should be reflected in plateauing oil production figures. Where are they? Other than that, with a place in history similar to other threats to our monetary well-being, it ain’t structural, it is cyclic (anti-Roubini heresy), and things can go back to what they were before, circa 2005. Then you would have a poorly-attended die-off, and another revolt nipped in the bud.
    I say all this because conspiracy or not, the denizens of the Internet can be so cruel as to make me want to reach through my monitor and throttle them. Of course, I am a yeast-person. So, without our fine legal system giving you the right to talk shit, you have to ask yourself in person, “Do I feel lucky?” Because, in person, I would clumsily “fall” on you. If not me, look around for the nearest guy like me. 250 lbs. dropping three feet on a prosthetic hip says you are going to look funny with a titanium ball up your ass. Hang us. We drop through a trapdoor good.
    I have been afflicted with psychic powers since I got laid off, and I want to see through the bullshit. It isn’t healthy. Not for me, not for anybody. The people I curse will come to harm when I most need them, same for you. The New Mother Nature’s gettin us all. JFK is not president, but that is a technicality. In the movie, “Salton Sea” with Val Kilmer, methamphetamine is consistently referred to as ‘gak’. JFK figures prominently in the movie, in the opening narration (“a slammer in the White House”), in a re-enactment of Dallas, and in a discussion between the protagonist and his buddy (“Danny, can I ask you a question? What does J-F-K stand for?). Here is how JFK and GAK could have coincided:
    J O H
    N F I
    T Z G………G
    E R A………A
    L D K………K
    E N N
    E D Y
    In this movie, they do. When things coincide, you are allowed to speak of all our minds melting into mush, I firmly believe. An apt analogy.
    JHK mentions Moloch. My post with a picture of Moloch is
    from July 24. It’s “How to Make Methamphetamine”.
    Sorry about the reference to the titanium butt plug, Jim. Hope we are still tight. Tight friends. Watertight. Like a frog’s bum.

  54. zzzzzz August 17, 2009 at 12:23 pm #

    This from Canada’s top doctor:
    “(Canadians) have to understand that the system that we have right now – if it keeps on going without change – is not sustainable,” said Doig.
    “They have to look at the evidence that’s being presented and will be presented at (the meeting) and realize what Canada’s doctors are trying to tell you, that you can get better care than what you’re getting and we all have to participate in the discussion around how do we do that and of course how do we pay for it.”
    Full story here:

  55. LAGTime August 17, 2009 at 12:25 pm #

    About the reliance upon debt servicing, JHK is correct. Neither the SBA loans have been forthcoming, nor has the Term Asset-backed securities Loan Facility (TALF), under the Troubled Assets Relief Program (TARP) come through for dealers for inventory financing. In the great words of Dan Hicks: “Without a dime, it doesn’t go.” No credit means no inventory for dealers and no vehicles for buyers. As for “cash for clunkers,” many of the dealers have yet to be paid for submitting their claims on behalf of buyers, which makes me wonder whether the government isn’t printing money quickly enough. OK, I’m somewhat kidding about that. It probably has more to do with all the lawyers involved at DOT.
    Who really knows how all this will play out? Here in Northern Virginia, it’s like the state is having a free-for-all in terms of road construction. The stimulus was “buttons on ice cream” and Virginia is trying to make sure that it will get its share before the sweet stuff melts. I guess to do some kind of energy study — as in, we have this much congestion, and it’s costing us this much in time/money/mis-used petroluem products — would just be too much interference by the state, huh? Someone would have to know where we were planning to go and when, etc., whether it’s a typically commuting nightmare or the Sunday scenario that JHK described.
    I get a little tired of the “doomist” stuff. There’s a balance somewhere between denial and welcoming disaster with open arms. I’m seeking that balance.
    And to that end, if budiwizer is still reading, I’d like to know how it is you’re becoming poor and ignored — and how that’s going. Seems like such a counterintuitive, yet worthy, goal.

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  56. lsjogren August 17, 2009 at 12:30 pm #

    The fundamental lesson of modern technology is that the laws of physics allow information to be generated, stored, processed and transported cheaply and with very little energy consumption.
    On the other hand, to generate, store, process, and transport macroscopic objects like human beings is expensive and energy-intensive.
    That’s why in my view the future will be sort of a hybrid in which the information technologies we have developed in recent years are liable to continue to proliferate, while the “non-Moore’s law” stuff like heating large homes, flying on planes, driving personal automobiles, etc, will wither away.

  57. carfreefamily August 17, 2009 at 12:38 pm #

    Replying to the comment regarding being carfree with children: We’re approaching six years of being carfree with two children, and it has never been a problem. We live in Santa Fe, NM. I believe it’s an ideal city in which not to own a car. I’ve had people tell me to my face after hearing that we don’t have a car that it’s impossible to live here without a car. What? I just don’t get it. Our kids are seven and nine. They go to summer camp, they do circus stuff after school. We bike up to Bandelier to camp. We take Amtrak back east to go to, yes, Cape Cod bay, though on the landward side not the cape itself. We take the passenger rail system down to Albuquerque to go to the zoo or to the Explora or just to hang out by the river.
    I’m sick of people saying that it’s not possible to live in the U.S.A. without a car if you have kids. We can’t possibly be some weird anamoly where we somehow inhabit a parallel universe that no one around us lives in. Geez, sometimes I feel like I live in a Twilight Zone episode.
    And Jim, I appreciate that you’ve had difficulty bicycling in your home town, but on your podcast, you keep implying that bicycling anywhere in the U.S. is an exercise in suicidal experimentation. I’ve been bicycling here since 1986, and the only bad encounter I’ve had was when some teenagers threw a cup of ice at me in the late 80’s. I let both my kids bicycle in traffic now, and both of them can get almost anywhere in the city on their own bikes. But again, it’s a twilight zone type thing. I’ve had people tell me that it’s just too dangerous to bicycle in Santa Fe. It’s just bizarre.
    We do have a fairly simple life. I work as a beekeeper and haul my hives around on a bicycle trailer and take the honey to the Farmer’s Market by bike trailer. My wife is a librarian. My kids go to the local public school and wander about the neighborhood to local friend’s houses. If you don’t have bicycle friendly jobs like beekeeper or librarian, and if you’re kids don’t like being kicked out into the neighborhood to find their own entertainment, then maybe you need a car.
    But don’t make it sound like you have to have a car to live a good, full life in this country. It just ain’t so.
    If you find yourself in the middle of a clusterfuck, maybe you should put your clothes back on and move to another room in the house.

  58. Ramjet August 17, 2009 at 12:39 pm #

    As much as I would like to see the automobile go “bye, bye”, it well not. The mobility it offers to people is something no one wants to let go of. I totally agree with many of Howard’s opinions but reality is reality. The car may eventually make us go the way of the dinosaur. I live in Southern California. It is not set up for mass transit and probably never well be! The North County Transit District of San Diego County, just spent 100,s of millions on a train from Oceanside to Escondido. Many of my friends could take this train to their jobs, but they all say the same thing. “But I can save(half, quarter, whatever, on hour) if I drive!.” If I wanted to go super-green, I could take the bus,train, bike, or walk. But my comute times would be super impractical. Walk to and from communities are a wonderful idea but I got bills today baby. I cruise up and down the California coast on a catamaram w/ solar panels. It is nice to be off the grid when I can. But things are not going to change to Howard’s vision in my lifetime in So Cal unless, perhaps if we have the big over due shake…………bye

  59. carfreefamily August 17, 2009 at 12:42 pm #

    Why can’t you edit comments? I hereby change the embarrassingly incorrect “you’re” to “your”. I guess I better proofread before I hit “submit”.
    Oh geez, is “embarrassing” with two r’s and two s’s?

  60. agirbizz August 17, 2009 at 12:48 pm #

    With all of these modelstly earnest references to pigs and hogs and feedlots I’m wondering if there is anyone who reads and posts here who has any idea whatsoever of the realities of what has been occuring in the commercial pork production/pig farming economy over the past year or so?
    President Truma said that “No man should be President who doesn’t undertstan hogs.”
    Precisely efficient industrialization of the means of production, a geneticily monocultural porcine population, an end product that is indistinguishablle from that of not so very long ago and the envolvement of non-stockmen entrepenuers into highly capitalized, mirror image, cookie cutter ventures have created a bust in the face of what would ot be seen as historically large supplies of product.
    Pigs and pig farming and domestic pork consumption have always been higly senstive to consumer economics and habits. If you’d been around it for 50 years and seen all of the comings and goings of “the pig business” and then were to run what’s going on now through the knowledge accumlated of that experience you’d be considerably more concerned about the rather near and much of the distant future than most here seem to be….at a place where such concerns are the perenial main course.

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  61. dale August 17, 2009 at 12:54 pm #

    While I would describe your post as “stream of incoherance”, you oddly make more sense than many of the posters here. Good Job….I think.

  62. dale August 17, 2009 at 12:55 pm #

    thanks for posting an example of how living without cars is possible. All to often that is regarded as completely impossible by the Doomer crowd.

  63. carfreefamily August 17, 2009 at 12:56 pm #

    I would add one more thing. We have also bicycled up the Cape from the Plymouth area. We stayed in a nice bed and breakfast mid-cape and then took the ferry back to Plymouth from Provincetown. It was a very nice trip, did not involve a motor vehicle, except for the ferry, and much of it was on the rail trail along the cape, so we didn’t have to worry about any traffic jams.
    I would venture to say that most of the U.S. is accessible without an automobile, but it does require a skill set that has atrophied for most people. On our last long trip, I was marveling at how empowering it was to know how to get around without a car, but also how difficult it is to develop those skills.

  64. Jaego Scorzne August 17, 2009 at 1:14 pm #

    Well said. Both Greenspan and Volker before both said at private meetings, that the wages of the American Worker must fall. After all, we have to stay competitive! Now were these commonsense economic decisons or treason? Depends what kind of America you believe in. I believe in America as a Nation and expect public officials who have taken an oath of office to fufill those oaths. Americans can’t compete against third world coolie labor-unless we become coolies ourselves. We made the right decison back in the 1920’s when we closed the doors to Asians. We made the wrong decison in 1965 when we opened the borders to everyone who wasn’t European. And we can never recover from what has been done. They’re here to stay, outbreeding us and sucking us dry-as we ship jobs overseas no less.

  65. asia August 17, 2009 at 1:14 pm #

    It ..this blog..didnt work too well over the weekend
    I notice the column is now wider.. BUT NOT WHAT I TYPE INTO IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  66. asia August 17, 2009 at 1:22 pm #

    LA is 70? miles wide
    If you try to cross it at rush HOURS it can take 3 hours
    If you go la to sd in the middle of the night it takes less time
    some predict gridlock 24/7 in LA soon.
    The population of Cal has nearly doubled in 30 years and Mexico will continue to encourage its people to move to mexi fornia

  67. silverdoctor August 17, 2009 at 1:30 pm #

    Thanks Asia. Using this blog drives me bananas. I’ve both been a moderator for several large blogs like Practical Machinist, and have done web design incorporating them. And the PM blog was free — entirely sponsored by suppliers. The software running it was a Lamborghini compared to this clunker.
    This blog software sucks! period.

  68. asia August 17, 2009 at 1:30 pm #

    10,000 car
    dont TATA/ india
    cherry/ china do it for 4000$ or far less ?

  69. asia August 17, 2009 at 1:31 pm #

    thats the price you pay when your lecture fee is 7000$
    JK could have a fleet of SUVs

  70. signalfire August 17, 2009 at 1:36 pm #

    Sorry, but only a bleeping idiot tries to exit Cape Cod at 11 am on a summer Sunday morning!! Try 3 am for god’s sake! I knew that back in 1968 and I’m sure things have not improved, cluster-wise.
    It’s too bad for the year-round natives that the rotary isn’t just closed from Memorial Day to Labor day so they can enjoy the place in peace. After a long winter on the Cape, they deserve it. As a matter of fact, I would encourage all rathskellions and anarchists to make this their first stand! Take out the rotary to all but bike traffic! And all those morons that live and work and make money on Wall Street, Boston and Connecticutt should just stay the hell HOME instead of clogging up the roads, the ‘vacation spots’ and their arteries by getting out of town. What’s wrong with their living rooms, their McMansions, and their half acre lots? Will not their granite countertops and wide screen TeeVees be lonely??
    Isn’t the problem that EVERYone thinks THEY are the ones who are ‘special’?? THEY deserve a holiday at the beach. THEY deserve cheap energy. THEY deserve big houses. THEY deserve their Escalades, Hummers and Jet Skiis..
    Not only does HALF the population have an IQ under 100 (average… very average), but a great percentage of the more theoretically capable are clueless to boot. The ‘educated populace’ that the Founding Fathers required for the continuation of the Republic don’t even know the difference between there, their and they’re. This doesn’t bode well.
    And all this happy motoring on your part (you seem to travel a lot, if only to ‘survey’ the happy motoring masses) is getting kinda hypocritical. What, Saratoga Springs isn’t good enough for you?
    I like your writing, James, and sometimes it makes me laugh out loud like nothing else. But, seriously, try to be a better example…

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  71. asia August 17, 2009 at 1:41 pm #

    This i found in 8.09 NEWSWEEK
    and i find spooky
    theres the real long emergency
    with the usa in a depression and unable to compete with chindia..there goes business
    bought up by those who have or would grab rio tinto etc
    also for those here who are care free car free
    i am too but i harbor no illusions how things get done on planet earth
    have a plug in ? try moving huge amounts of food/ goods in a small electric / alt vehicle
    Logistics classes and certicicates are now offered at colleges
    our modern world runs on oil…as well as trains/ planes/ big rig trucks
    if you grow yr own food and grow yr own cotton maybe then yr off the grid

  72. turkle August 17, 2009 at 1:42 pm #

    “Europe typically pays $8 a gallon now, but also has high-speed rail links and generally excellent public transport networks as alternative choices.”
    That isn’t a coincidence. European countries impose high gas taxes to pay for the public transit infrastructure.
    Toll roads are also very popular over there. I once paid over $30 to drive halfway across France. You just swipe your credit card.

  73. jim e August 17, 2009 at 1:47 pm #

    I cycled from Boston to M.Vineyard one Summer. No cars were ferried to the Island?

  74. Scorpio August 17, 2009 at 1:50 pm #

    Every right winger who has ranted about health care (“but I am glad my Medicare is not government run!) has traded in his car and has his hand out for cash.
    Believe it.

  75. asia August 17, 2009 at 1:51 pm #

    This blog didnt seem to be working saturday/ sunday
    I replied to you in JHKs blog posting of last week

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  76. asia August 17, 2009 at 1:55 pm #

    Pr Gates at Harvards in a ‘ self reinforcing feedback loop ‘
    So is JHK!

  77. turkle August 17, 2009 at 1:57 pm #

    “I won’t belabor the fact I think Obama sucks as a person and President”
    Yes, actually, you will belabor it like you do every week.

  78. asia August 17, 2009 at 1:59 pm #

    is that what? its not blackwater..whats blackstone ?

  79. turkle August 17, 2009 at 2:03 pm #

    What JHK continues to underestimate is the propensity of humans to accept their circumstances and then adapt to them.
    For instance, in Brazil, a far more violent and dysfunctional society than the US, carjackings and kidnappings are commonplace. So people buy armored cars and body guards. They don’t revolt en masse or turn into a giant pack of pitchfork-carrying lunatics.
    And the United States has a long way to fall before it reaches this level. Are we fundamentally different than people in the “third world” countries? I really don’t think so. If and when America gets to this point, people will accept their fate and make the necessary adjustments to their lives in order to survive in the new reality.

  80. seb August 17, 2009 at 2:04 pm #

    Hey Ken, thanks for the highly informative comment concerning lithium. I stopped reading in order to save it once it got to the fabulous/incredible level. A cause for that seems to be the intellectual capital consisting in retired persons.
    As with hydrogen, I can assure you our mouths water for the Li to enter the stream of commerce so we can use it to make methamphetamine. That will be via the liquid ammonia/dissolving metal reduction.

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  81. seb August 17, 2009 at 2:21 pm #

    Criticism taken. I am post-Gonzo. No, wait a minute. JHK is post-Gonzo. Both he and HST had hip replacements. Word is that it hurt HST so much that he shot himself. But, I wrote to HST and declared a war of words. He lost because he smoked. I doubt I’ll commit suicide (either, Jim).
    What am I, then? Well, my writing is experimental. It is not designed to win me friends. It is designed to be clear to a single reader, myself. I will pay your way. Writing won’t ever support me, so it is not incoherent. Just as “deconstruction” does not mean destruction, if you want to use the root ‘coherent’, may I suggest “decoherent”, so it does not sound like you are saying I am high or crazy. I laugh, but you know what? I got a kick out of Dr. Kazinsky’s action, fuck the rant. “Let me send you something.” BTW, anyone writing for money (like Tom Wolfe), cares only for cashing the checks they get. They do not tell the truth. My stuff’s honest, unedited, stream-of-consciousness, and your “history” on any event you care to name, from 10,000 B.C. to August 17, 2009, is not. Trouble is, the world after the crash of civilization will be just like Las Vegas and you left markers. It won’t be “out there” anymore. It’ll be in here and filled with vengence. Incoherent, huh? We will see. To be continued.

  82. Mr. Purple August 17, 2009 at 2:24 pm #

    “Don’t you guys worry about how vulnerable and exposed you are to the oil price?”
    A few of us do, but the majority are distracted by the occasional mention of a “potentially huge oil find” and the CNBC mutterings about “speculators driving up prices”.
    I expect that the decreasing supply of petroleum and its associated distillates will one day cause a response in the form of legislation declaring that the is more oil. There will probably even be some petition drives supporting such a thing. Shortly after, the gods of this era will have their temples sacked and burned. When I say things like that, people think I’m kidding, but I’m not.

  83. Mr. Purple August 17, 2009 at 2:26 pm #

    a correction to my post: in the form of legislation declaring that there is more oil.

  84. asia August 17, 2009 at 2:27 pm #

    My country is now facing utter economic ruin
    downturn in world economy?

  85. dale August 17, 2009 at 2:35 pm #

    “Just as “deconstruction” does not mean destruction, if you want to use the root ‘coherent’, may I suggest “decoherent”, so it does not sound like you are saying I am high or crazy.” – SEB
    decoherent it is then….actually I was saying you are high AND crazy. A lot more fun than either of the two by themselves.

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  86. Mr. Purple August 17, 2009 at 2:36 pm #

    “It might be important to mention that there is not enough electrical capacity to replace all the energy consumed by automobiles burning gasoline and diesel.”
    Shhh! You’re spoiling the surprise!

  87. dale August 17, 2009 at 2:40 pm #

    I think the only difference between the U.S. and Irish economies is the status of the dollar as world currency. Hence, we have thus far been able to print and borrow our way out of some of our difficulties. It is hard to believe that status will continue indefinitely.

  88. Steve M. August 17, 2009 at 3:11 pm #

    A so-called blue state like Massachusetts doesn’t watn to expand mass transit to Cape Cod and Albany . . . I expect that “they’ll get my car when they pry my cold dead hands from the steering wheel” mentality from someone in Texas or Florida, but apparently Bay State leaders are just as hesitant to enrage the public. Meanwhile, I have a friend who’s been all over the world and lives in New York and doesn’t have a car. As much as I love my car – it’s a VW, you wouldn’t understand – I know it can’t get me to Paris or Rome, nor can I afford to leave the northern New Jersey suburbs for NYC even if I gave it up. I can barely afford the repairs I’ve had to get done on my car since getting laid off. In two years I could be living in a place far worse than northern New Jersey because we’re being killed by property taxes! I fear I’ll then be stuck there when the oil runs out.

  89. turkle August 17, 2009 at 3:18 pm #

    “In two years I could be living in a place far worse than northern New Jersey”
    What place is worse than north Jersey? 😉

  90. dale August 17, 2009 at 3:25 pm #

    “It might be important to mention that there is not enough electrical capacity to replace all the energy consumed by automobiles burning gasoline and diesel.”
    Of course not!!, but by way of pointing out “strawmen” who has said that it could? A few months ago I posted an article here, made by a non-profit, on electrical capacity. The article mentioned that actual electrical capacity is perhaps 25%+ above current production averages. I believe it was by the Northwest Energy Lab (or similar) if you want to do a Google search. Much teeth gnashing ensued, but the facts of their study was impossible to refute.
    Comparisons which suggest such instant conversions, using current miles driven, all cars transitioning in a short time, etc (and then point out the problem of capacity) are inherently flawed for a number of reasons.
    1.)Any transition will likely result in several fuels being used bio, electrical, NG, etc., so the idea that it would all be electrical and overloading the grid is disingenuous at best.
    2.)Changes in behavior DO HAPPEN, and rapidly increasing oil prices should lead to a structural decline in miles driven.
    3.)Much electrical capacity is quantified by peak use, charging for auto use for example, would almost certainly be done in off peak times even without incentives.
    4.)Current electrical use is fraught with inefficiencies. I believe conversion from incandescent light use to LED’s etc. results in about a 12% reduction in electrical use nationwide, and that without shutting off all the lighting which now is used to no important end. Similar efficiencies are almost certainly possible in other areas as well.
    I’m not saying we would all be living in a bowl of carefree cherries, just that much more in possible then such statements suggest.

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  91. observer August 17, 2009 at 3:41 pm #

    At last! intelligent and interesting comments–from Budiswiser, explaining something I’ve long wondered about, and a good explanation, too (p.3). And from Carfreefamily. The other detail about carfree life is that you see more interesting things along the way and meet more people. It’s almost as good as walking to school was when I was in kindergarten–a daily adventure.
    I am waiting for train service to be restored here, and it seems to be coming. Meanwhile, I’m working on getting a 100-mpg plug-in hybrid. It’s a gamble, I know, and I’m willing to take it because I want to continue seeing my 5-yr-old grandson and my 95-yr-old Dad. Getting to my grandson by public trans would take 4+ hours one way, plus a VERY long steep walk. By car 1 hour 15 min.
    You CAN get from SF to Seattle by Amtrak. But you have to start across the Bay in Emeryville.
    Medicare works. Medicare for all would work too.
    The item below is copied from:
    http://www.margaretandhelen.wordpress.com. Go there if you want to see a picture of Margaret and Helen.)
    “Margaret is it just me or did combing your hair become optional when going out in public? I’ve been watching news clips of these town hall free-for-alls and we have definitely become a nation of tired, poor, and huddled masses clearly tempest-tossed, but without access to a good beauty salon. Universal Hygiene – now that is something I could get behind. And all of them are asking for their America back. I wonder which America that would be?
    Would that be the America where the Supreme Court picks your president instead of counting all the votes? Would that be the America where rights to privacy are ignored? Would that be the America where the Vice President shoots his best friend in the face? Or would that be the America where an idiot from Alaska and a college drop-out with a radio show could become the torchbearers for the now illiterate Republican party?
    I fear that would not be the America they want back. I fear that the America they want back is the one where black men don’t become President.
    I remember that America. In that America people screaming at public gatherings were called out for what they were – an angry mob. Of course, they wore sheets to cover up their bad hair. Let’s be clear about something: if you show up to a town hall meeting with a gun strapped to your leg, the point you are trying to make isn’t a good one. Fear never produced anything worthwhile.
    And what’s all this crap about killing your grandmother? Are you people honestly that stupid? This has become less an argument about healthcare reform and more a statement about our failed education system. Margaret, I don’t know what plans you’ve made up there with Howard, but down here with Harold, we have living wills to determine how we will leave this world when the time comes. Mine states that unless the feeding tube is large enough for a piece of pie, I don’t want to be hooked up to it. Harold, of course, says his can only be connected to him if the other end is connected to a bottle of single malt scotch.
    Now shame on me for making a joke about a serious subject, but if these morons are going to show up and scream at their elected officials, they need to educate themselves about the subject at hand. No one is planning on killing you or your grandmother with rationed healthcare or death squads. By the looks of the American citizenry turning out for these town hall meetings, we’re doing a fine job of killing ourselves with fast food, cigarettes and an overindulgence of ignorance.
    The Founding Fathers couldn’t have seen this coming. If they had, the right to free speech would have been conditional upon one’s ability to read. But the Founding Fathers didn’t plan on the likes of Palin, Cheney and Limbaugh.
    I too long for the America I remember as a child, Margaret. The one where men used guns to hunt quail and women visited a beauty salon at least once a week. Oh, those were the days. I wish we had them back. I mean it. Really.”

  92. heavyenlightenedone August 17, 2009 at 4:19 pm #

    It is the practice of sitting in traffic, that make us all the same.
    Just like sitting on the couch, watching the box.
    Not dissimilar to the great fad of this century; supping from an expensive bottle of something a little like water – even in temperate climates.
    An ipod or other gimmick, to preserve the idea that 2000 songs must accompany the head of an “individual”.
    Don’t worry about Americans becoming Morons – the pandemic is all pervasive and the swine is a symbol.

  93. turkle August 17, 2009 at 4:38 pm #

    Didn’t you get the memo? World to end soon. Hoi polloi to show up at your doorstep with torches and pitchforks. Time to start stockpiling ammo and beans.

  94. messianicdruid August 17, 2009 at 4:50 pm #

    “…look to Fuddy Frightcake and Casey Coincidence-Theorist to start hunkering down, all… survivalist-style in concrete bunkers…
    the people to bust a cap into a Goldman-Sachs CEO are also the ones that think black helicopters are coming for them”
    I don’t expect any GS CEOs to be climbing over a high fence and ignoring no trespassing signs on private property. Do these guys use black helicopters?

  95. dale August 17, 2009 at 5:15 pm #

    “Didn’t you get the memo? World to end soon. Hoi polloi to show up at your doorstep with torches and pitchforks. Time to start stockpiling ammo and beans.”
    …..and rice don’t forget the rice.

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  96. Jaego Scorzne August 17, 2009 at 5:39 pm #

    Free public education and the universal right to vote have been disasters for this country. Nowadays, people are educated beyond their ability. Universities have become second rate high schools. You can’t make people smarter than they are-and most people aren’t smart and shouldn’t be voting. More specifically, in the original system, the State Legislatures appointed the Senate. This ensured that the States remained powerful and did not become mere adjuncts of the Federal Goverment. But inglorious democracy stepped in and gave the vote to the people-marking the end of State power. This farrago is called the 17th amendment. And of course, the Founding Fathers also didn’t want the ordinary hoi polloi voting-they didn’t know anything then and they don’t now. The majority is always wrong about everything-but they still have the right to be ruled by their own people and not people of other races.
    As for the South: when they fought as gentlemen, they lost. When they fought as terrorists they won back their dignity and the safety of their women. Alot of people are taking another look at the Civil War. And many come to the conclusion that the South had every right to secede-after all a “union” is supposed to be voluntary, is it not? And as incredible as it sounds to us now, the States were supposed to be sovereign. Robert E Lee was torn in his loyalty at the begining of the war, but realized he could not allow the Sovereign State of Virginia to be invaded by foreigners. So although offered a high place in the Union Army, he chose the better part and went on to meet his Destiny.

  97. Strangewalk August 17, 2009 at 5:44 pm #

    JHK had a picnic and doesn’t know what automobile HELL really is, come to China! With 25% the number of cars as are in North America, the traffic fatality count here is over 4 times higher. In China, the rudest, crudest, most inconsiderate, primitive, stupid buffoons as cannot be imagined are behind the wheel. Nowhere outside is safe, the pedestrian is regarded as a moving target and traffic lights and signs are viewed as suggestions at best. Like dive-bombers suddenly appearing from beneath a low-cloud cover, cars and motorcycles here can come at you from out of nowhere, in any place at anytime, as they adventurously blaze new, uncharterted paths where no motor vehicle has recklessly gone before. I could send you pictures of traffic tie-ups here that would make the west Los Angleles interchange at rushhour on Friday look a well organized, fast moving flow. Sidewalks in Chinese cities are slalom courses for hordes of shock-jokeys riding the latest sinister affront to urban civility known as the electric bicycle–completly silent and capable of 40 mph as they zig-zag in both directions among the luckless throngs. And, China has now overtaken the US as the world’s largest new car market–just imagine!

  98. cuddletuffy August 17, 2009 at 6:09 pm #

    I have to agree with silverdoctor. The old comment typepad was far better. The tabbed paging mechanism is extremely buggy, is visually abhorrent and that is being nice. Please consider bringing back the old format or introducing something new and significantly improved. It is a shame to pollute your fine writing with the painful comment reading, writing and searching experience.
    I have also posted comments the last couple of weeks that haven’t made it. Hard to fathom when there is no invective and you read through pages of racist and/or schoolyard namecalling.
    This week, I loved the people as swollen as Thanksgiving Day parade balloons. That was one of the finer moments you’ve had Signore Kunstler.
    As regards the Volt, it seems yet another attempt at running a society by PR campaigns. America has rotted to the core. I watched the car alternative segment posted by Duncan as supplement to your podcast a couple of weeks ago. That had GM admitting that it is a virtual car. Now it is making headlines. Probably trying to get the public to believe that the nationalization has worked.
    Cash For Clunkers. I wonder how long it will be before the Chinese, Japanese, Saudis, and Russians develop a similar name for the US Treasury market.

  99. scmtneer August 17, 2009 at 6:30 pm #

    The Volt may out sell the Tesla, but I doubt it. Just returned from Virginia Beach and had similar traffic experiences coming and going. While there I visited Fort Story to see the lighthouses. The exhibit information indicates the Fort had train service from about 1900 until 1950 and it made me wonder just how many places in America once had train service but now don’t. America has the distinction of being the industrial nation I know of to have let fall into ruin or in some cases actively destroyed its passenger rail service.

  100. CowboyJack August 17, 2009 at 6:42 pm #

    With regard to the last sentance in the blog post, we Americans value life. At least for now. We don’t “want” to have to hurt another individual. We don’t like the idea of prison either. So, the violence from “home arsenals” won’t start until the desparation level gets to a certain level. Desparation will breed violence.
    As I stated in a post here a few weeks ago, it is all about the JOBS. If, by some far stretch, Mr. O performs another miracle and actually starts to create meaningful JOBS (from what I don’t know) then high levels of desparation may be postponed. But if average Americans keep loosing their jobs, to the tune of around a quarter of a million every month, and many of them losing their homes, then I expect some serious desparation to develop. Desparate folks are unpredictable.
    And when I say JOBS, I mean that jobs are the immediate fix to most of the unemployed. They need money to buy food and pay mortgages. But to put all the things in place that are necessary to create the JOBS is the problem. Businesses must be motivated to HIRE people and right now, Mr. O, in just a few short months, has successfully stripped that motivation away and shows no signs what so ever to re-motivate those people who create the jobs. So, those needing a JOB to go work at are probably out of luck until Mr. O “gets it” and decides to re-motivate the job creators.
    So, with Mr. O clueless about how to motivate those who actually create JOBS there will likely be no JOBS for the working masses to go to for quite some time. And, of course, the spectrum of population overshoot and peak oil issues must be considered in any plan to start a new business. Meanwhile desparation will be setting in.
    Mr. Kunstler, while I respect you and enjoy your blog most every Monday morning, I know you hated Bush but I am afraid that your big wish of last year, hoping that the Republican Party would be remembered as the party that wrecked America, will be long forgotten as Mr. O and his Chicago style croonies like Axelrod, Emanuel, Holder, Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Franken, Boxer, Schumer, Specter, Rangle, Waxman, Kerry, Dodd, Durbin and all the rest are doing a far better job.
    Do you ever question Obama’s honesty? Do you ever wonder if he is telling the truth?
    I am afraid of what this country – MY COUNTRY – THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA – HOME OF THE FREE AND THE BRAVE – will be like three and a half years from now. My vision is a complete embarassment. Seems like OUR COUNRTY has morally decayed into the land of a bunch of lazy, over weight, wusses.
    Good luck to us all.

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  101. turkle August 17, 2009 at 6:52 pm #

    “Free public education and the universal right to vote have been disasters for this country.”
    Stick a sock in it, Jagoff.

  102. bproman August 17, 2009 at 7:06 pm #

    Thanks again for your remarkable insight of living in today’s world. I find your literary masterpieces refreshing with a whole lot of truth mixed in as compared to the junk being sold in the mainstream media. As for watching more mind control advertisements being pumped out from the television, telling me I need more “NEW and Improved whatever…”, I’d rather watch paint dry.

  103. SNAFU August 17, 2009 at 7:28 pm #

    As my daughter would say “Margaret and Helen are ab fab”. I don’t know how you run across blogs such as this; but, if you have more please post links. Thanks, Ken

  104. Jersey New August 17, 2009 at 8:00 pm #

    Here is the future of cars:

  105. asoka August 17, 2009 at 8:08 pm #

    The Commander in Chief speaks to VFW:
    The president laid out a vision of a nimble, well-armed and multilingual fighting force of the future, not one that was built to fight land battles against the Soviets in Europe.
    “Because in the 21st century, military strength will be measured not only by the weapons our troops carry, but by the languages they speak and the cultures they understand,” he said.
    He praised McCain for joining him and Defense Secretary Robert Gates in opposing unneeded defense spending.
    Shortly after Obama won the White House, McCain had pointedly suggested there was no need for the Marine Corps to bring on newer helicopters to ferry the president at a cost of billions of dollars.
    On the subject of the helicopters, Obama told the veterans: “Now, maybe you’ve heard about this. Among its other capabilities, it would let me cook a meal while under nuclear attack. Now, let me tell you something. If the United States of America is under nuclear attack, the last thing on my mind will be whipping up a snack.”

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  106. Majella August 17, 2009 at 9:24 pm #

    Yeah, I know what you mean, but the mpg on these fuckers means it wouldn’t qualify for the Cash for Clunkers programme:
    “The highly-popular Toyota Tacoma pickup truck was introduced in 1995 and redesigned for the 2005 model year. Solid gas mileage ratings are a proven factor in the Tacoma’s appeal. Currently the best-selling compact pickup truck in America, the 2WD Tacoma delivers as many as 25 miles per gallon on the highway when equipped with the 4-cylinder engine.” (http://www.mpgomatic.com/2007/12/01/toyota-tacoma-gas-mileage/)
    Still – my ancient 1997 3 liter v6 Peugeot 406 still gets around 30 mpg (average between city and highway). What’s more, it’s a pleasure to drive and doesn’t have that BS “sports utility” look, which JHK seems to like to affect. Oh, the irony…

  107. abbeysbooks August 17, 2009 at 9:28 pm #

    Ah Jaego I just knew you were a Lovecraft fan.
    As Hannah Arendt said about immigrants who came over in the 1800’s: (paraphrasing) These later immigrants did not come for religious freedom but to take and get as much as they could.
    They were not the educated class that first arrived (the religious bigots included) but raw brutality to plunder the New World.
    Today’s immigrants are far milder. They want to work labor intensive jobs to get ahead. Tryt going to Europe and living there for awhile. You come back to the US and can see with immigrant eyes all the possibilities for quite awhile until you sink into past habits. Like going to school and getting another degree or certification in something or other.

  108. abbeysbooks August 17, 2009 at 9:34 pm #

    Yes we are a country of morons. The oldr you get the worse it gets. And besides that there is no one your own age you can say anything more to after the sentences about the weather are finished.
    The Rude Pundit talks about this today on his blog about the oldsters at the town hall meetings. And one dumb question after another dumb question.

  109. abbeysbooks August 17, 2009 at 9:36 pm #

    Here in the Ozarks sounds just like rural Maine. I guess I don’t need tfo consider Maine to get away to.
    Anyone want to buy my building in small town Ozarks. Walk to everything. Small town smaller minds.

  110. rocco August 17, 2009 at 9:37 pm #

    YO JIM:
    In our western New York county our Republican county executive was angry because our Governor Patterson gave welfare families $200 each child to buy school supplies. The cashiers at Walmart called her office asap he report that some families were buying tv’s and other Chinese goods. The executive who had many scandals of staff using tax payer money for homes and supplies of friends went on Fox Business channel to warn of this abuse, and single payer health insurance. Two more homes on my street were left by families unable to pay, and all other parts of town report the same thing. The local press buzzing with summer shopping deals, sorry Jim people will not rebel against government waste,but thanks to Fox and Rush attack the poor people instead. OPPS, I have to go buy my Mega million ticket it’s worth 170 million.

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  111. abbeysbooks August 17, 2009 at 9:54 pm #

    First let me say I hate this software also. It’s a lot like an American car, isn’t it? And it’s still here even tho we all complain about it. Why is that?
    Here’s how I have handled it. Open 2 browsers. Read with one and comment with the other. That way you don’t have to sit and wait after you push submit.
    Never, I repeat never, hit preview. It will take forever and you can cook dinner while you are waiting. After you submit go back to the read browser and read for awhile. When you find something you want to comment on go back, click on the page you were reading on and comment.

  112. AllezCat August 17, 2009 at 10:02 pm #

    Geez Jim,
    We didn’t go to the Cape this weekend cause we knew all the “shoobies” from NY, NJ, Conn and every where else within short cheap distance would be there. Yeah they’re not going as far afield as they normally would – you know, trying to save money and all, what with the 401K’s in the toilet and the mortgage looming and that goddam boss looking to gut the payroll, again. Shit it just ain’t no great summer. Well, pack up the screamers and let’s go to the “cape”. We stayed home and tended the garden. I’m goin down in November when they’re all gone and I can ride my bike with impunity. Those morons in SUV’s never cut a cyclist a break but soon they will. Like Ian say’s “when all the oil derricks have all dripped dry and the night’s have seemed to grow colder”. Can’t come soon enough…

  113. Mr Christmas August 17, 2009 at 10:20 pm #

    Mr Kunstler,
    How would you really feel if mob retalitation really materialized? Is that what you really forsee?
    One of the leaders of a movement against the government admits/confesses/offers up (Water Boarded)that his motivation to action came from reading Clusterfuck Nation on a weekly basis.

  114. abbeysbooks August 17, 2009 at 10:21 pm #

    CowboyJack it is hopeless at best. As Toynbee says, an empire fails from within. After factoring out climate, war, catastrophes etc as uncauses, the fiber of the people is the measuring stick.
    Alas we are doomed then.
    I had high hopes for Obama. I am glad I didn’t work too very hard for him, but I did more than I have ever done before. I am learning to hate him more than Bush, because from the first time I heard Bush open his mouth I knew we were in for it. But like everyone else, I underestimated him. Remember he said he liked that. With Obama I feel utterly betrayed. This feeling is something I never felt from Bush.
    Betrayal is really a terrible feeling and I can understand why so many are in denial about O. Nut all you have to do is look at Michelle, and that permanent frown between her eyes, and her necessary sweater to ward off chills that come from repressed anger, and you know. You know without a doubt.

  115. abbeysbooks August 17, 2009 at 10:22 pm #

    No godammit it, he’s right.
    Plato said that democracy leads inevitably to totalitarianism. Is anyone going to argue with that sage? Choose your weapon.

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  116. turkle August 17, 2009 at 10:40 pm #

    How’s about a little history of the 20th century for Mr. Jerkoff.
    Germany society is destroyed under Hitler and his philosophy of racism. Germany is reconstructed by US and Britain into modern democratic state. Germany becomes one of the most economically powerful nations in the world and leads the EU.
    Japanese society is destroyed after it came under the spell of racist warlords. Japan is reconstructed by US into modern democratic state. Japan becomes one of the largest economies in the world and one of the biggest exporters.
    Canada is pretty nice, too.
    So your idea that democracy doesn’t work is complete shit. With only a few exceptions, the democratic nations are better economically, have happier people, and are more socially progressive and liberal. They are better places to live. Hence, all the Chinese people trying to come to the United States and not vice versa.
    Get it, asswipe? No one cares for your half-baked race warrior gibberish, because you are flat out wrong. People do not flourish under a minority rule fascism, m’k? It does not involve enough people in the political system. Fascism Germany and fascist Italy collapsed and were destroyed. Your political ideas are bunk and poorly thought out. Now go take a shower. You stink.

  117. turkle August 17, 2009 at 10:56 pm #

    “Plato said that democracy leads inevitably to totalitarianism.”
    Pardon me, but who fucking cares?

  118. turkle August 17, 2009 at 10:59 pm #

    And to continue my little capsule history, the United States is looked at, for better or for worse, as a huge success story by the rest of the planet, hence the tendency for countries to copy our social, cultural, and political systems and ideas. You may decry democracy like some kind of half-baked Nazi dimwit, but the fact is that this is the most successful political system of all time, almost any way you measure it.

  119. JD Moore August 17, 2009 at 11:14 pm #

    I visited “Nowhere” the past weekend. That nice old building which was nearly empty in 2001 now has all five storefronts rented. There’s a dentist in town now. Sadly, the old high school now has mostly government offices. I got to talking with a local who told me the community support was really great. This community being families that have been there for four generations, maybe longer. They probably had ancestors who worked in the wool mill and rode the streetcar. The town has paved over the main intersection again (second time in nine years) so once again the streetcar tracks are hidden.
    I was in Saratoga Springs, too. Congress Park is a nice place. I could imagine walking to nowhere along the old roads when the weather cooperates. I notice the local made a nature trail out of an old railroad grade. I hear a vet is moving into the old railroad station since the museum has failed.
    I know better than to drive on the freeways. I had my brief spell of “Happy Motoring” this year, nearly all of it on the back roads. I got lost a few times. There was little traffic in the Adirondacks. I saw lots of people walking around in Cooperstown, Phoenicia, and Lake George. It was like being home (I live in an eminently walkable community.). I was able to get back from near the White Mountains with hardly a stop along the way Sunday night at 6 pm. Gas is relatively cheap this year. Lodging is outrageously expensive. I may not be able to do this anymore. If businesses do not hire people soon, they will hang themselves with their own rope.
    I wish I could say a train to the Cape would do the trick. People won’t take it. The Cape Cod & Hyannis tried reviving service a few years ago. It failed miserably. Rails-to-Trails has eaten up a lot of the right of way as it is.
    Finally, I must say, Jim, I had to quote your comment (with proper credit, of course) about Americans being a bunch of morons when it come to “free money from the Gummint.” Oh, yes, for The Car (a tribute to houses on top of garages, notice which is bigger) but nothing for Grandma, or that kid down the street with a congenital heart ailment. According to a reliable source, Americans spend 75% of their health care dollars on the chronically ill. I smell a “final solution” here. It smells like burning bacon.

  120. Qshtik August 17, 2009 at 11:15 pm #

    Your audience is composed mostly of two types, fellow doomsters and pooh poohers. I’m in a small third group who tune in each week neither to buy nor deny your gloom but merely for a good laugh and a well turned phrase. I also keep Dictionary.com handy for words like Moloch,precis and peristaltic to work on my vocabulary.
    Your MO is to ride an image of “the sordid spectacle of what American culture has become” — cheese doodles, granite counter tops and “re-po men hiding in the bushes to snatch the PT Cruiser,” just long enough, then cleverly describe some new object of contempt — platters of TGI Friday’s loaded potato skins and people who look like Thanksgiving Day parade balloons — to amuse us.
    Truly, you have a rare talent.
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.

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  121. Jaego Scorzne August 17, 2009 at 11:19 pm #

    The Founding Fathers decried Democracy-dimwit. We were supposed to be a country of Laws not Men; in other words, a Republic with a Constitution. Democracy was part of it-but not only for qualified people. Universal Democracy horrified them. The Terror of the French Revolution was ever before their eyes.
    The Founding Fathers were racists of course. We could never have had two good centuries if we didn’t conquer the Indians and stop the Asian immigration in the late 1800’s. And defeat and kick out the Spanish too. To enjoy the benefits of America while simultaneously condemning racism is the height of hypocrisy. Those benefits directly accrue from discriminating in favor of our own people. You can’t have omlettes without breaking a few eggs. And you can’t have a country without breaking a few heads. But there is unnecessary brutality as well. Bringing Blacks over as slaves was unnecessary and immoral. We didn’t need to do that.

  122. turkle August 17, 2009 at 11:41 pm #

    Oh, so you’re for limited democracy now, Jagoff? I thought a few posts back that fascism was the best political system.

  123. turkle August 17, 2009 at 11:42 pm #

    We are a republic with a Constitution, fuck stick. Now the black people and women get to vote, which apparently makes you very angry.

  124. observer August 18, 2009 at 12:13 am #

    After a month of almost full-time research on the car question, I determined that the safest & most financially sensible way to get a plug-in hybrid was to buy a salvage-title Prius and have a lithium battery pack added at a cost of about $9K. (The guy who talked me out of lead-acid batteries was very knowledgable, and had nothing to gain from my decision.) The total cost of the car is then c. $20-25K, not $40K or more, like the Tesla and the Volt. The downside is there’s no warranty, but adding the plug-in package to a Prius would void the warranty anyway.
    One smart guy who has made a business of this in small-town Indiana can be found at http://www.autobeyours.com (a great site with before and after pix of the salvaged cars.) He sells his Prius plug-ins to people all over the country, sometimes on eBay. I talked to several of his satisfied customers and ALMOST bought from him though he’s 2000 miles away. But I found a salvage 2009 locally with just 4K miles and a guy who will stand behind it, for c. $8K less than the Kelley Blue Book price.
    With the plug-in package added (there’s a choice of 2 prices for the lithium battery pack and a consequent choice of ranges in all-electric mode–see http://www.pluginsupply.com), I will be able to go either c. 20 or c. 40 miles per charge using NO gas. If I need to go farther, I simply use normal hybrid mode and burn a few cups of gas.
    Since most of my driving is local, I should reduce my gas consumption to 40 or 50 gallons a year, maybe less.
    The electric utility here has a special rate for electric-car charging from midnight to 7 a.m., but I can also go solar (for a price I’m waiting on) and generate my own juice.
    After I get the plug-in package added, I will write the next chapter.

  125. abbeysbooks August 18, 2009 at 1:15 am #

    For the one who thinks Plato is irrelevant nowadays.
    I suggest reading him carefully. In his foretelling of the demise of democracy he states that the would be selected one must pander to the lowest common denominator in order to get elected.
    Is not this what we see now. Bush certainly did. Obama seduced us and now we see who he really is. Someone who panders to the lowest common denominator so as to get in in 2012.
    Now if you don’t think the birthers and screamers are the lowest common denominator you may disagree.

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  126. asoka August 18, 2009 at 1:28 am #

    Observer said: “I can also go solar (for a price I’m waiting on) and generate my own juice.”
    Yes, you can. They are using solar power in Australia to run buses, so your plug-in Prius should be no problem.
    Plug-in hybrids can be run using off-grid systems. Increasing plug-ins does not automatically equate to crashing the electrical grid.
    And solar power is not limited by the amount of sun that falls on the earth, because mirror systems can multiple the power of the sun by 500 times.
    ‘Tindo’, the world’s first solar-powered electric bus, carried its first commuters earlier this month in Adelaide, South Australia.
    Tindo, the Kaurna Aboriginal word for ‘sun’, is recharged using solar energy generated by a unique solar photovoltaic system installed on the roof of the new Adelaide Central Bus Station. Tindo is part of the Adelaide Connector Bus fleet that transports commuters, throughout the City and North Adelaide, free of charge.
    “Australia is to build the world’s largest solar power station in the south-eastern state of Victoria.
    The 154MW scheme, would surpass Spains huge solar power station and would have nearly twice the capacity of the biggest existing solar power plant, in California’s Mojave desert.
    112 curved mirrors that track the sun throughout the day, the technology has the capacity to multiply the power of the sun 500 times.”

  127. Johnny Rico August 18, 2009 at 1:52 am #

    I just had the best week of my life not writing and hanging around town with this Russian chick, and that’s what YOU have?
    Jim Kunstler is the ultimate naive asshole. Sorry about my sentence structure, nigga.
    You are a fucking idiot. I’m been going down the cape every summer since 1976. EVERYBODY goes to out of the way places in little corners! That’s why they call it the Cape, ASSHOLE!
    My family owns about 8 acres across Lewis Bay from Hyannisport, where that Kennedy Cunt croaked this past week. We’ve got 4 houses and our own beach. It used to be barns and mildew and overgrown all kind-a-shit. Now it is our private little corner with good acees to a money-making cranberry bog.
    We are all crazy, but it’s ours.
    I wasn’t “down the cape” this weekend, but my sister and my brother-in-in were. So I asked them about the traffic. They said it was nothing special.
    The difference is, you KNOW what kind of gas you are burning.
    You should definitely be the first contestant on the first episode of a new reality show called “Who’s the Biggest Asshole?”
    You ARE a complete dick, my friend.
    Glad you had a safe trip, though a bit long for your tastes (take a helicopter next time, what can I say?)
    Johnny Rico
    P.S. Who’s the “We”?

  128. turkle August 18, 2009 at 1:58 am #

    You’re a prick, but that was fucking funny.
    All right, time for night, night, my little race warriors. We’ll pick up this “conversation” tomorrow. Don’t let the Jews and the Negros bite.

  129. cowswithguns August 18, 2009 at 1:59 am #

    I’m all for everyone having the right to vote, but I’ve got to admit there are so many unread baffoons in this great country that, at times — for maybe like a second, I really wish they couldn’t vote.
    The universal vote is truly why we have sickening displays of pandering to the masses — politicians pretending to be born-again Christians, etc.
    A good analogy is film: if we had film critics deciding what movies get made, our summer blockbusters would be the likes of Annie Hall, There Will be Blood, Unforgiven, Casablanca, etc.
    But, instead, we have GI Joe and Transformers.
    But, as much as our political system makes me want to vomit pure bile, ugggh… let the masses keep ensuring the Ralph Naders, Ron Pauls and Dennis Kuciniches of the world will never lead the executive branch.

  130. asoka August 18, 2009 at 2:30 am #

    Plato had a point. A meritocracy is what most of us prefer to a democracy.
    For example, you are going to the hospital for surgery. You would not want the person to do the surgery to be chosen in a democratic election that included the janitors, secretaries, and cafeteria workers. You would probably prefer the person most qualified, and that is meritocracy.
    I could imagine a meritocracy that said only those who have graduated from high school (or have a GED) could vote in elections, and only those who have a bachelor’s degree could run for office, and only those who have a masters or doctorate in a relevant field could be elected/appointed to cabinet level positions. That would eliminate selecting friends (like people who own Arabian horses) to fill positions (like FEMA).

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  131. Jaego Scorzne August 18, 2009 at 2:46 am #

    Yeah and that’s why smart consumers will avoid Black Doctors if at all possible. Affirmative Action is the antithesis of meritocracy. How on Earth can Blacks feel good about themselves giving into that kind of temptaiton. Deep inside, they know they’ve betrayed anything real they could have ever been-and then they just hate us more. We are the eternal scapegoat/devil in Black Cosmology. There can never be peace between us. Never. You don’t want it. You want to be us, but to do that you have to get rid of us somehow.

  132. Johnny Rico August 18, 2009 at 3:09 am #

    Does nobody have the balls to tell this Nazi fuck to piss off?
    What the fuck is wrong with you people?
    Why can you not remove him?
    You worthless bitches aren’t saying you believe and adhere to this shit, ARE YOU?
    Because my kind left here long ago.
    Sweet. Meet JR.
    I’m gonna crucify you.

  133. Johnny Rico August 18, 2009 at 3:16 am #

    you go to bed early like the little cunt that you are. let me give you some advice. Don’t talk to me. I already never liked you.
    When the shit goes down, I have no use for you.
    You ain’t even made, clown.
    Asoka, this nigga, funny.
    Whoop Whoot!

  134. Johnny Rico August 18, 2009 at 3:32 am #

    I’m jus sayin.
    I been gone for a coupla weeks.
    unless you think the ending to Barton Fink is the most fucked up ending ever, we got nuttin in common.
    I like Asoka. We fight. I call him a douche, but he been around. We been a lot of places together.
    Doom’s the boss.
    I miss OEO.
    Everybody else hates OEO.
    Whaddaya want from me?
    SEB’s the new guy. FNG. I like SEB. He’s got balls.
    I miss Brandon.

  135. Flyover August 18, 2009 at 3:57 am #

    It is hard to believe that there are still clusterfucking morons here who think that presidents make decisions. How fucking dumb can you be? Get a fucking education before you open your fucking mouths. Turkle, go play in the ghetto, you fucking moron. Get some brain surgery from an affirmative action doctor. Yeah, that’s the ticket. Maybe Michael Jackson’s doctor has some free time on his hands, and he is in need of a little cash. Now shut the fuck up.

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  136. Urban_Underclass August 18, 2009 at 6:55 am #

    First I saw your reply last week, I did not reply straight away as I was not sure if you were just a narrow minded racist bigot like Jaego or what. From reading your later comments, I can see that you are not.
    The problems in the Irish Economy are partly as a result of the global economic downturn. I lot of people in Ireland are employed by multinational corporations like Intel and Dell who have been laying off workers or pulling out.
    But the main problems are of our own making, we had a huge property bubble that was fueled by short-sighted government tax-breaks for property development. The money to fund this bubble was borrowed overseas and now of course these foreign banks are looking for their money back and the money is not there.
    So far two developers have shown up with bad-debts of over €1 billion (approx $1.2 billion) which is phenomenal in a small economy like ours and there are many more debts out there.
    All the Irish owned banks would collapse if the government has not promised to back them up by any means necessary. The problem is that with collapsing tax returns and spiraling welfare expenses, the government does not have the money.
    My country is in serious danger of utter bankruptcy, welcome to the long emergency.

  137. Vladmir Krappeshack August 18, 2009 at 7:02 am #

    Autodidacts need not apply, huh?
    Churchill was right, I reckon; democracy being the best of the worst and all that.
    BTW, gonna mention how big the roof is in Adelaide to power one bus?

  138. Urban_Underclass August 18, 2009 at 7:05 am #

    While we awaited Mr.Kunstler’s latest post myself and crisismode were having a bit of a discussion about farming in general and pig farming in particular.
    The cruel and wasteful methods of meat production hold an almost lifelong fascination to me.
    I found your comment hard to understand, perhaps you could clarify.

  139. dale August 18, 2009 at 10:11 am #

    In your absence we have been organizing a little boycott of the racists who post here. I know it is difficult not to rise to the bait, the best way is just to skip their posts, once you know who they are it’s easy. Please join us.

  140. abbeysbooks August 18, 2009 at 10:26 am #

    It’s really class warfare masking as racial bigotry. You know that affirmative action is a double edged sword.Just as class connections for admission to university are. Could Bush have ever gotten in Harvard and Yale on his own merits. That’s affirmative action of a different sort. And you wouldn’t want to go to those surgeons either. And you certainly wouldn’t want one of them to be your president!
    I don’t know if Obama was or not. But after he was there he made damn sure no one could accuse him of inferiority. Women have known this for a long time. They had to be better and smarter. And often that didn’t work either.

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  141. dale August 18, 2009 at 10:47 am #

    I don’t see it that way, looks and smells like naked racism to me. These guys would hate blacks if money were raining from the sky.

  142. asoka August 18, 2009 at 11:00 am #

    If we are in a long emergency, peak oil and all, shouldn’t the opposite be happening?
    WASHINGTON — Wholesale prices dropped sharply in July, and over the past 12 months fell by the largest amount in more than six decades of record-keeping.
    The Labor Department said Tuesday that wholesale prices dropped 0.9 percent last month. That’s triple the decline economists had expected and was driven by big decreases in both energy and food costs. Over the past 12 months, the prices of goods before they reach store shelves fell 6.8 percent.
    Core inflation, which excludes energy and food, also was well-behaved. It dropped 0.1 percent in July, better than 0.1 percent gain economists expected.

  143. dale August 18, 2009 at 11:49 am #

    Forecasts are forecasts…..but I usually place a little more credibility on Financial Times.

  144. jerry August 18, 2009 at 12:05 pm #

    Ya should have gone to Erie, PA instead! It just seems that Americans are motoring close to home, and in your case heading to Cape Cod, there never is getting around the snarl of traffic.
    Since gas is less than it was a year ago, and people can’t afford longer trips, they gas up the SUV, van, or full-size pick up and pull the other gas guzzler: the boat or travel trailer and charge it up on their maxed out credit credit cards.
    I will plug Erie, PA as an alternative to the Atlantic Ocean beaches. Erie has Presque Isle State Park with terrific beaches, and the lake water is very comfortable this time of year. Wear water shoes because of the stones in the water, which is very clear.

  145. Qshtik August 18, 2009 at 12:31 pm #

    Nice download and a perfect example of
    We are in the deflationary phase of a cycle. Deflation is nice for consumers with little money but the worst possible condition for businesses. Ben and Tim are desperate to engineer some inflation, by creating money out of thin air, to force consumers to spend before their money loses value. Consumers spend, the economy improves, or so the thinking goes.
    The inflation or, god forbid, hyperinflation phase comes later when an actual economic rebound begins.
    Anyway, don’t be too sure of that data you search-jockeyed off the internet and did not bother to compare to your actual life experience.
    Before the movie over the weekend my wife and I had something to eat in a diner. I had eggs over easy with sausage, home fries and a cup of coffee. She had a tuna sandwich, fries and ice tea. The tab was $20.38 before tip. You call that FOOD PRICES: DOWN?

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  146. asoka August 18, 2009 at 12:34 pm #

    Jerry said: “the boat or travel trailer and charge it up on their maxed out credit credit cards.”
    How does that work, exactly?
    I thought by definition when a credit card is maxed out, then your request for credit is denied…
    and then you cannot gas up your boat or travel trailer.

  147. asoka August 18, 2009 at 12:57 pm #

    Q said: “I had eggs over easy with sausage, home fries and a cup of coffee. She had a tuna sandwich, fries and ice tea. The tab was $20.38 before tip. You call that FOOD PRICES: DOWN?”
    SUGGESTION: Eat at home. Food prices are dropping.
    Thomson Reuters
    US ECON: July PPI Down 0.9%, Core PPI Down 0.1%
    Last month, finished food prices fell 1.5% on the back of an 11.7% decline in the price of fresh and dry vegetables, a 5.9% decline in the price of eggs, and a 3.5% drop off in the price of chicken, the largest decline for that food category since April 2006.
    PS. It doesn’t take great search ability to find a Forbes or Reuters news item.

  148. turkle August 18, 2009 at 1:05 pm #

    “Johnny Rico | August 18, 2009 3:32 AM”
    Damn, Rico, burning the midnight oil?

  149. asia August 18, 2009 at 1:36 pm #

    I bought 2 friends sandwiches at SUBWAY [ the worst franchise opportunity in usa according to forbes]
    and a soda ….18$ was it
    2 pounds of raw organic rice at a grocery..5$
    Asok….read my posts yday about Businesses in USA..50% of small bizes goin broke

  150. asia August 18, 2009 at 1:45 pm #

    Or go investigate a ‘break in reported’ at pr gates place

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  151. asia August 18, 2009 at 1:52 pm #

    have also posted comments the last couple of weeks that haven’t made it.
    It was not functioning too well over the weekend
    dont hit preview
    hit SUBMIT and minimize window
    re open in another window if you continue to read/post

  152. asia August 18, 2009 at 1:56 pm #

    Ron Paul or Dennis K would have
    BROUGHT OUR BOYS HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    so a flunky for the Power elites is in the white house

  153. asia August 18, 2009 at 2:03 pm #

    i agree with anyone who keeps tabs on grocery costs
    their own grocery costs
    over the last 10? years the cost of groceries has skyrocketed
    and some news papers have written about so no asok
    gas/ food/ whatever
    over the years inflation is rampant
    end of conversation

  154. asia August 18, 2009 at 2:13 pm #

    Jaego Name Meaning and Jaego Origin
    The Name Jaego is a boy’s name. The origin of the baby name Jaego is Aboriginal, Spanish, Portuguese with the meaning(s) depending on Gender/Origin being
    Aboriginal- Complete|The Spanish, Portuguese form of Jamew, the replacer.
    Jaego has the following similar or variant Names: Jaego Jaigo Jaygo Jago
    The name Jaego, is the 19280th most popular baby name at mybabyname.com placing it in the top 27% of names by popularity.
    Add to shortlist
    Is your name Jaego? Got a blog, or personal webpage? Let us know and we’ll link to your from this page. Personal sites only please, business sites will not be approved.. Add you Site HERE!
    You need to have a website about YOU, and it must be accesible to anyone without logging in.
    Not sure if the name Jaego is right for your child ?

  155. asia August 18, 2009 at 2:20 pm #

    China ‘poisoned the well’..so me thinks china is finished

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  156. asia August 18, 2009 at 2:33 pm #

    the illegals and the felons vote..thanks to ACORN

  157. asia August 18, 2009 at 2:40 pm #

    guess i dont pine 4 the good ole days
    slavery and andrew jacksons comment
    ‘the only good indian is a dead indian’

  158. Qshtik August 18, 2009 at 2:56 pm #

    I don’t know why I bother debating with Dr. Asoka Pangloss
    The point, really, is not whether my simple diner meal cost more than ever before. The point, rather, is that you say:
    as though the Obama admin had engineered some wonderful outcome after only 7 months on the job.
    We are in a deflationary period because the biggest bubble of all time popped. Tim and Ben are pumping with their gigantic air hose to reflate the bubble but, like Humpty Dumpty, it can’t be put back together again. Won’t work, impossible, can’t happen.
    And we’d be in about the same straits if McCain had won. The economy is in very bad shape. To the extent that prices are down – housing, energy, labor, whatever – it is the result of supply exceeding demand. I don’t understand how you can be so cheerful about falling prices when they are the clearest sign of a terrible economy. Knock off with the ridiculous optimism already … unless you enjoy looking stupid.
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.

  159. CowboyJack August 18, 2009 at 3:33 pm #

    A couple more comments after scanning several recent posts.
    First, you foul mouthed and incoherent folks need to be boycotted too. I have no problem with a cuss word when necessary, but, please, go away.
    Abbysbooks, I am sorry you feel betrayed by Mr. O. I noticed words like “seduced” also used. But I think you get it now and it shows that you are of reasonable intellect and upstanding character to admit that you think you were betrayed.
    It is not racist to disagree with Mr. O or his administration, or congress. Nor is it racist to question his honesty. If a person is lying to you then that person is lying to you. It makes no difference his skin color nor his position.
    In a little more support for some of Mr. Kunstler’s observations, let us not forget the root of most of our current problems: we do not manufacture nearly as many things of value in this country as we did back when our economic engine was in ramping up to become the greatest the world has ever seen (largely because of an abundance of cheap oil). Manufacturing things meant JOBS. Now, most everything you buy, no matter where you buy it, says MADE IN CHINA on it somewhere. That means that there are JOBS in China. JOBS that were here.
    These two phenomenon, NOT made in USA and MADE IN CHINA, and the fact that China now is the largest holder of US debt are all directly related. And it is important to remember how they got related.
    Do a Google search for Yah Lin “Charlie” Trie (pronounced “Tree”). Mr. Trie “arranged” for a bunch (and I mean a BUNCH) of money to be made available to get Bill Clinton elected President. Unfortunately, Mr. Trie did not do this out of the kindness of his heart. No, he made deals with Mr. Clinton in exchange for all that money. And shortly thereafter is when many major manufacturers began building plants and moving manufacturing JOBS to China. Of course there were many other players and schemes involved in the complicated process, but Mr. Clinton basically sold out the US manufacturing sector, and all the JOBS associated with it, to China in order to become President.
    That is when we began the process of transforming from a manufacturing power house to a consumerist economy. It has taken many years for Mr. Clinton’s plan to run its course, but here we are, with Mr. Kunstler closing his blog with the questions “Do you think they’ll just hike down the breakdown lanes with colorful bundles on their heads like the impoverished folk in other lands? Or will they put all those home arsenals to work?”
    Did you ever think we would be asking those questions in this country?
    Oddly, one of Mr. Clinton’s campaign slogans was “It’s the economy stupid”. Now we find ourselves in, arguably, the worst economy this country has seen since the Great Depression and with a new president who is demonstrating himself to be intent on spending my sweet little grand daughter and her children into oblivion just to maintain business as usual for as long as possible. As Mr. Kunstler would agree, business as usual is over Mr. O. While he speaks eloquently he hasn’t shown any signs that he is even remotely aware of the basic necessities that businesses need in order to create JOBS and actually PAY people to do work. The lame claim that “unemployment didn’t rise as much as expected” to make us think that things “may be turning around” or that “we may be at the bottom” is just plain pathetic. Losing anywhere close to a quarter million jobs a month for several months in a row is nothing short of dramatic and incredibly difficult to stop, let alone turn around.
    Someone above posted a short list of things, inflation being one I think and energy maybe, that are down under the Obama economy. That is because people are scared to death. We are hoarding our money. We are not traveling like before. We are not buying non-essentials. We are afraid our living expenses are about to go through the roof and many of us already have NO income. What do you suggest we do about that? Many of us are becoming desperate. And, as I said before, desperate people are unpredictable.
    Note to Obama: The ripple effect of millions of people losing their jobs (i.e. income) is spreading to all locations of the country and throughout all sectors of the economy. The longer this goes on the worse it will get. Your STIMULOUS money is NOT working. We can NOT find new JOBS to go work at. Those people who create JOBS for us to go work at are scared to death of you and your goofy tax and spend agenda too. Please read Clinton’s slogan “IT IS THE ECONOMY STUPID”.
    My sincere apology for length.
    Good luck to us all.

  160. Funzel August 18, 2009 at 3:42 pm #

    The only thing that bothers me about Olebama,he has not been in office for 9 months and he is already vacationing,gallavanting around the globe like a he is some kind of big shot in CONgress,instead of a public servant.
    It’s time to regulate ALL these useless eaters!!

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  161. Jaego Scorzne August 18, 2009 at 4:01 pm #

    I don’t pine for them either, as I already indicated. Read what I write-don’t listen to the caricatured voices in your head. But facts are facts: the Indians had to be conquered to make room for Americans. If you disagree with this, you shouldn’t live in this country because you are partaking of the fruits of that conquest. It called being authentic-and for you American isn’t authentic. Now liberals solve this problem in an inauthentic way: they keep partaking of the fruits and hate all Whites who are not ashamed of their Race and History-thus justifing little old them or so they think. Besides being hypocritical, this mindset is also an express train to destruction. Mohammad is now the number one baby name in Europe. Are you ok with our conquest both there and here in America? Do you think our conqerors will be kind to us? We could have wiped the Indians out remember. But we didn’t despite what some hot heads wanted.
    I’m willing to consider new paths for our People in the future that don’t involve conquest-as long as all other Races are on the same page. But they aren’t. Read about what China is doing in Africa-or are you one of those who thinks only Whites can be racist? And the Moslems are quite frank in their intention to conquer us. The Central Americans are even more blatant about it. So we do still need the warrior spirtit even if we don’t use it agressively any more. For my part, I’m saddened that we aren’t “conquering outer space”-and we wont with all these minorities on our backs. The White Race is clearly the most Promethean. And yes, that can be destructive. But it can also be glorious. In any case, we clearly need a challenge, and outer space could be one that doesn’t hurt anyone. But first we have to figure out how we’re going to get through peak oil….and regain freedom for our people.

  162. SNAFU August 18, 2009 at 4:11 pm #

    “Obama,he has not been in office for 9 months and he is already vacationing,gallivanting around the globe like a he is some kind of big shot”
    Apparently it has slipped past your notice that he is a “big shot” or is it, as it appears to me, that what really bothers you is that he is a really really big shot as POTUS. Did it bother you that GW Bush made about 237 separate vacation trips entailing roughly 1020 days away from the WH while he was in office. No? I did not think it would.

  163. Jaego Scorzne August 18, 2009 at 4:16 pm #

    Downtown Dublin is filled with Irish Girls pushing carriages with coffee colored Babies in them. You happy about that? Why? It’ll be the end of the Irish People. You have to be White before you can be Irish, any fool knows that. Thank God some of the Irish have sense. They voted down the Lisbon Treaty and stopped the European Union from turning into a Super State no better than the Soviet Union. Already hundreds if not thousands of patriots rot in European Prisons for thought crime against the Muslims or for questioning the six million. So much for the European Tradition of Liberalism. As one judge said about the Holocaust, “The Truth is no Defence.”
    Also I think the Irish voted against automatic citizenship for children of aliens saving themselves from Africans who would do the squat and drop like the Senoritas are doing to us. Big time commonsense-which isn’t common.

  164. Andy Williams August 18, 2009 at 4:19 pm #

    Greetings from Wales in the UK. Two good articles in the sensible papers in the UK today that show that we in Europe still have massive problems. These should also be read when you take into consideration that S&P are on the verge of lowering the UK’s credit rating from AAA to AA.
    We as a continent are now starting to worry that the sheer scale of government debt means that we are possibly in a position that we will never recover from because as we start to, the price of oil will explode.

  165. Andy Williams August 18, 2009 at 4:28 pm #

    Are you talking about an Ireland that’s on another planet or the Ireland that’s 45 miles across the Irish Sea from where I live in Holyhead on Anglesey in Wales.
    The Irish will be voting in favour of the Lisbon Treaties (it;s Treaties – there’s two of them) this October now that it’s been explained to them.
    The Irish have not voted against automatic citizenship for the children of immigrants.
    Downtown Dublin is not filled with Irish Girls pushing coffee-coloured babaies.
    And within the EU at least we do not jail people for ‘thought crime’
    Despite having a decidedly east-european name, you seem to know doodly-squat about what goes on in Western Europe.
    You really are some sort of Nazi arent you? I bet you’ve got that ’14 words’ rubbish above your bed.

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  166. Qshtik August 18, 2009 at 4:53 pm #

    “you seem to know doodly-squat”
    Good post Andy, however, be advised that here in America the expression is “diddly-squat.”
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.

  167. zzzzzz August 18, 2009 at 4:55 pm #

    Kennyboy sez:
    “Did it bother you that GW Bush made about 237 separate vacation trips entailing roughly 1020 days away from the WH…”
    Kenny-boy. Did it bother you? If so, why? You clearly hate the man. Your wish should be that he should have spent all of his time away from the WH. What a kkkunt.

  168. Andy Williams August 18, 2009 at 4:59 pm #

    advice taken matey..
    Skorzne – you know diddly-squat

  169. agirbizz August 18, 2009 at 5:15 pm #

    I’m attracted to Jim’s work and these essays as a pragmatic, hands on progressive (genuine conservative?) who believes that most of the inherent sytems we have in this nation are valuable to us but that corporatization and top down driven integration, franchizing and absentee ownership and management have destroyed what was a rather broadly inclusive participatory economic system. Always in need of improvement, but better improved through democratic means than through sanctioned predatory cannibalism, as we have experienced since Jan. 1981.
    What the hell are you doing here? What makes you think that any of the racist, exceptionalism laced garbage that you spew would relate to, much less fit in with the unique, intriquing and compelling brand of progressivism that Mr. Kunstler sees fit to pose here for consideration and discussion?

  170. Jaego Scorzne August 18, 2009 at 5:15 pm #

    How dare you speak for the Irish People? Who are you to say how they will vote? And you are the one who knows nothing about conditions in Ireland-or you are lying. Truly the Welsh have hated the Irish for ages as my Irish relatives told me.
    Don’t you have enough to worry about in Britain? Like the Muslim takeover? Or I suppose you are all for that. Are you going to convert too? Careful though, they don’t like homosexuals even though they do lots of it themseves. All male liberals are tending towards inversion. It’s just not a masculine outlook on life.

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  171. Andy Williams August 18, 2009 at 5:28 pm #

    Fuck off Skorzne, you talk shite. You are a blatantly nazi white supremacist spouting rubbish in the hope some disenfranchised trash will follow you into world war three. The maternal side of my family is Irish and I have many relatives living in Dun Laoghaire (about 10 miles south of Dublin) The Irish and Welsh are closely related. The Welsh and Irish languages are very similar.
    And what muslim take over in Britain is this then? Hang on – I’ll just nip outside and have a look.
    Back now. Nope, no hordes of sandal wearing camel-herders streamimg up the road.
    You really know remarkably little of the history of the UK don’t you and seem hooked on some sort of bizarre extreme-right nationalist tripe.
    We even had muslims serving on HMS Victory at the Battle Of Trafalgar and muslims fighting with us in the Crusades in the times of King Richard. We’ve literally had muslim communities within the UK since the 13th century. Even Shakespear mentions them – Blackamoors.
    One of the most influential industrial families in North Wales and the North West of England in the 19th Century was the Stanley family. White, English & Welsh to the core – and muslim.
    Muslim takeover my arse. Stop being a hysterical little fart and grow up.

  172. Jaego Scorzne August 18, 2009 at 5:30 pm #

    Easy biz: I’m a believer. I’m a big fan of Mr Kunstler and think that he has diagnosed the problem and has some of the answers. I believe in Peak Oil and feel we are at the end of this cylcle of Civilization. We will have to go back to more simple and local means of production. And like Mr Kunstler, I believe that less can be more-all this can be healthy if we can avoid ethnic and international strife. But like Mr Kunstler, I don’t believe it will pan out this way.
    In his novel, A World Made By Hand, the United States has collapsed and everything is in flux. There has been intense ethnic strife and one group of Christian Refugees from that come to the area where the novel takes place. The first thing Job asks is, are there any Blacks around here. You’ll ask the same question-admit it.
    Now Mr Kunstler may see the break up of America as a tragedy, I do not. I think America is evil and a grave threat to the survival of my people. Mr Kunstler probably doesn’t care about
    my people being a believe that everone is the same. But he does know that Black Culture is largely pathological and is amazed that His Tribe, the Liberals, listen to it and bob their napply little heads to the beat while the lyrics chant of revenge against the White Man. As he says, rap music is a call to Black Solidarity and also a call to a future war against Whites. If your blinders have blinkered you so that you didn’t see these passages, answer me back and I will provide chapter and verse in both books.

  173. agirbizz August 18, 2009 at 5:34 pm #

    My bad J>S>…posted a comment at 5:15 PM that was meant as a reply to you, not as a general post. Please look it up.

  174. Jaego Scorzne August 18, 2009 at 5:34 pm #

    Well Sir Fool, they are expected to be a majority by 2050, it’s been all over the news. Try turning off the Soaps and watching some. So yeah, that invasion, Traitor.

  175. Qshtik August 18, 2009 at 5:40 pm #

    People have complained about presidential vacation time since Ike took up golf … but it’s pure bullshit. Neither Obama nor Bush is guilty of being lazy. First of all they’re on-call 24/7 for 4 or 8 years. If Bush took 1020 days vacation in 8 years that’s 34.9% of the total 2922 days (i.e. 365 x 8, + 2 leap days = 2922) assuming the 1020 includes holidays and its proportional share of weekends). Of 365 days in a year, a typical American worker is “off” 35.3% of the time (104 sats and suns, 10 holidays and 15 vacation days, not to mention sick-time taken at the beach when healthy).
    129/365 = 35.3%
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.

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  176. Flyover August 18, 2009 at 5:51 pm #

    CowboyJack Is offended by curse words. Hey moron, did you happen to notice the title of this site …CLUSTERFUCKNATION notice the FUCK
    When you clusterfuckers stop categorizing people into different races, then there will no longer be any “racists.” Then, we can start talking about “content of character.”

  177. SNAFU August 18, 2009 at 6:11 pm #

    Little Zz where have you been? Sleeping off a bender? Recovering from a bad trip? Hate GWB? Naw, I think hate is more your style; although, you are correct if I had had my druthers ole George the idiot could have stayed out of the WH permanently right from the get go and Dick the prick right along with him.
    Little Zz the childishness of your responses is becoming pitiable but since I am an old bastard incapable of feeling pity for sycophants, such as yourself who exhibit no evidence of character, the continued goring of your ox is my pleasure.
    I think David Green has you and your ilk accurately pegged, if you have the balls read it. Likely you don’t and won’t.

  178. CowboyJack August 18, 2009 at 6:45 pm #

    Mr. Flyover,
    I am not so much offended by cussing. I do it more than I should. It is just that, when over utilized, it minimalizes the message. Well, that and shows that the user has limited mental resources, which is good reason to simply ignore those posts with excessive cursing.
    Oh, and, yes, I recognize the “clusterfuck”. That is an accurate description of what is happening to us all.
    Good luck to us all, buddy. Well, maybe except for morons. 😉

  179. JMK616 August 18, 2009 at 7:52 pm #

    I can’t stand to let this pass. The first post by crisismode–
    I am a 6th generation farmer (in the US–not counting Ireland) and was born on a farm that my family has farmed continuously for nearly 150 years.
    We have raised hogs and every other type of livestock for that matter and there is no way that a hog will eat a dry corncob unless the hog is on the verge of starvation. Never gonna’ happen.
    You don’t know what you are talking about!

  180. Roots&Leaves August 18, 2009 at 8:06 pm #

    Ha ha, well done. Bring on some facts, that confuses him. (Although how sporting is it to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent?) His ideas of the Welsh hating the Irish / Scots vs. Irish / Poles vs. Germans / whatever — kind of undermines the idea of the Great White Volk, don’t you think?

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  181. Roots&Leaves August 18, 2009 at 8:06 pm #

    Ha ha, well done. Bring on some facts, that confuses him. (Although how sporting is it to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent?) His ideas of the Welsh hating the Irish / Scots vs. Irish / Poles vs. Germans / whatever — kind of undermines the idea of the Great White Volk, don’t you think?

  182. Roots&Leaves August 18, 2009 at 8:06 pm #

    Ha ha, well done. Bring on some facts, that confuses him. (Although how sporting is it to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent?) His ideas of the Welsh hating the Irish / Scots vs. Irish / Poles vs. Germans / whatever — kind of undermines the idea of the Great White Volk, don’t you think?

  183. abbeysbooks August 18, 2009 at 8:52 pm #

    I have read Toynbee recently. It is always a new book depending on the times yu are living in. Especially the part on disintegration of empires. We have passed the rout and rally phase and are in the disintegration process.
    The empire wages war well beyond its borders. To do this it begins to employ barbarians, enfolding them into its military and teaching them about all the new weapons. The barbarians influence the military in their ways at the same time, so the empire begins to take off its smiling copy me mask and the true ugly face is revealed. Other peoples stop wanting to emulate it. (Sound familiar?)
    Our states are openly flaunting their power in the face of the federal government (carrying legal assault weapons to where the president speaks)and this is another sign of disintegration. People are divisive and threatening violence and we now have our own home grown barbarians.
    The best that could come out of this is the Universal State (think Agustus and Rome) for a forced peaceful time. I had hoped maybe Obama could pull it off but he is not even aware that this is his mission.
    We have been sliding down this hill for a long time. Some administrations speed it up and some slow it down. It is inevitable. So we may have the hostile breakup of the Soviet Union from its Universal State time. The disintegration of the Universal State is followed by chaos.
    China and Asia is in a growth phase. That means that as challenges face it they must continue to meet the challenges successfully. If they fail, it will be re-presented for another try. This will continue until they hit the rout and rally phase followed by disintegration.
    Disintegration of an empire has always been followed by a great new world religion rising out of the ashes.
    A great pattern from the life work of a great scholar. From the last generation to be educated in multi languages, all times in history, anthropology, sciences and thinking originally.

  184. abbeysbooks August 18, 2009 at 9:03 pm #

    Seems like someone forgot about the fatwa on Rushdie. And the almost one on Houellebecq who was saved from it by 9-11.
    Anyone of you have an answer why Houellebecq is the hottest writer in France since Camus? And who has to live on an island off Ireland because of Muslims? He has since moved to Spain. But he is not safe in France.

  185. dale August 18, 2009 at 9:06 pm #

    only two problems with your post actually, strangely enough you highlighted both of them for me.

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  186. SNAFU August 18, 2009 at 10:17 pm #

    Good post I was about to make a similar comment; I applaud yours.

  187. turkle August 18, 2009 at 10:22 pm #

    Jerkoff Scorpion,
    For a member of the master race, you sure do whine a lot, much more than any black person I’ve ever met.

  188. zzzzzz August 18, 2009 at 10:40 pm #

    Read you little article by David Green. Didn’t take any balls or brains to read it either.
    Heres a bit of his blather:
    “What does it take to get someone to the point that they believe that the US Congress is passing a healthcare reform bill that will allow the government to exterminate seniors?”
    Exterminate? I don’t think I have heard this term used before regarding some of the concerns people have regarding government run health care. (Hint: Green is a bit of an alarmist and extremist in his views.) If the question is will services be withheld from seniors that could ultimately lead to their deaths, in a government run system, the answer is HELL YES. When limited resources must address unlimited health issues there will be a bureau determining how funds should be prioritized. Think grandma will weigh as heavily as a young child who has not yet had a chance to make their mark? Think again, dim-bulb.
    Then this nugget:
    “Perhaps the best exemplar of this imperative was the (so far) unsuccessful play at privatizing Social Security. Wall Street looks at that sitting mountain range of money – within view, but just beyond reach – in sheer ball-busting frustration.”
    This statement emphasizes the idiocy of all things “Green.” What fucking “mountain range of money” is this moron referring to? There isn’t ten cents in the governments social security account. Haven’t you heard Kenny? It’s one big IOU. The morons in Congress have been ripping the funds out about ten minutes after the ponzi scheme was developed. Don’t you remember Al Gore talking about how he would put a “lock box” on SS funds. Well neither he nor anyone else ever did.
    The idea behind privatization of SS was to give control to individuals. You know that way, even if they weren’t genius investors, even if they chose to put their contributions (Their, as in the fucking money they earned) under their mattress, they would have more than a fucking government IOU.
    Nice try Kenny. (NOT) You need to choose your “experts/heroes” more carefully. This Green guy, like you, is a complete peen-lick. Ill informed, and suffering from Bush Syndrome.
    Back to jail. Do not pass Go do NOT collect $200.00

  189. abbeysbooks August 18, 2009 at 10:48 pm #

    Thanks for the link to the Regressive Antidote. I read Green but not every single day so I missed this one. He is right on target, eh.
    Our empire is tanking. No Universal State lies on the horizon and lots and lots of chaos. The creeping chaos is moving quickly toward us all. Can you hear the tramping of Nyarlathotep?
    It is not for nothing that Lovecraft’s mythology is gaining in prominence. And that he has become the writer who has most influenced writers since Homer. Now that’s scary. I cannot pick up a well written and original novel without seeing his influence, whether the writer is conscious of it or not. The most recent being The Story of Edgar Sawtelle, a masterpiece. And then of course, there’s Infinite Jest and the incredible David Foster Wallace to point to our future.

  190. Qshtik August 18, 2009 at 10:53 pm #

    “It is just that, when over utilized, it minimalizes the message.”
    Cowboy, you’re not the first to note this. Your skin will thicken up after a bit. See the post I made a few weeks ago below:
    “ZZZZZZ, in crafting a scathing retort to a lame post a well chosen epithet or expletive can be very effective. You can hardly go wrong using, for example, the universal default putdown, “asshole.” However, the continual use of such words eventually destroys their effectiveness. I note that you overuse “M-O-R-O-N” and “FUCKTARD” (a word new to me which I assume means fuckin retard?) I’m surprised that someone as astute as yourself is unaware that they’ve lost all their putdown power due to the “law of diminishing returns.” Secondly, you only make YOURSELF look foolish when you deride a post which is obviously NOT moronic and its author is obviously NOT a fucktard. In other words, you should save the really viscious stuff for the truly deserving. Further, if you would sprinkle in something fresh once in awhile it might help. Calling someone an “Asswipe” or suggesting their teenage daughter has “penis-breath” come to mind. Or tell them their stench “would knock a buzzard off a shitpile.” Moron and fucktard are so yesterday.”
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.

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  191. susan calvin August 18, 2009 at 10:53 pm #

    I haven’t read all the previous comments, but I’d like to say something (newbie here).
    Jim is a compelling writer, and I agree that Peak Oil is coming and will drastically change our lives.
    But I don’t believe the American public will do anything about it. I see no uprising when our Happy Motoring days start to dwindle. We will have 25% + of our population living in tents and under bridges, but there will be no revolt.
    Americans have been long trained to believe that they are responsible for every bad thing that happens to them. Each one will blame him/herself for the predicament that he/she is in.
    So dream on Jim. What will really happen is that we’ll sink into poverty with hardly a whimper. You won’t see any storming of the gates.
    The 25% living under bridges will be glad they’re alive, and the rest of us will be glad that we’re not in that 25%. None of us will say or do anything to jeopardize our already precarious positions.

  192. Johnny Rico August 19, 2009 at 12:26 am #

    “Damn, Rico, burning the midnight oil?”
    Dude, you have no idea. No idea.
    I wear 8 chains.
    This is why I have no respect for you. You are a complete douche.
    Who sez?
    asoka sez

  193. turkle August 19, 2009 at 1:07 am #

    Rico, you git, asoka sez I’m fine. Don’t put words in his mouth.
    And lay off the speed. You’ll live longer.

  194. turkle August 19, 2009 at 1:18 am #

    Let’s reserve “complete douche” for Nazi Jagoff and his lame, paragraph-less, white power rants about Jews and black people.
    I can’t even compete with that shit in terms of sheer douche baggery.

  195. turkle August 19, 2009 at 1:30 am #

    Case in point. —-^^^^^^

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  196. cowswithguns August 19, 2009 at 1:39 am #

    Regarding Social Security: (1) Thank God the Wall Street whores didn’t get their hands on it; (2) True, the money actually doesn’t exist, but the only reason it doesn’t is because our pussy leaders have been too afraid of the ignorant gubmint-trashing masses to raise taxes to generate money for services we need, so they steal social security funds and raise the national debt ceiling instead.
    Enter China and Wall Street — our new overlords. Unlike Big Gubmint, though, neither are accountable to the people.
    I imagine our country as some smooth-talking womanizer who steals his girlfriend’s credit card to buy her a nice gift. Ain’t he just so sweet?

  197. asoka August 19, 2009 at 2:18 am #

    JS said: “Because the Russians are a People and the Americans are not.”
    Say what?
    Russian has 182 ethnic groups, and 57 of them are Muslim… and they are not one big happy family. Russia is asking the Muslims for help in fighting extremists.

  198. asoka August 19, 2009 at 2:19 am #

    JS said: “Because the Russians are a People and the Americans are not.”
    Say what?
    Russia has 182 ethnic groups, and 57 of them are Muslim… and they are not one big happy family. Russia is asking the Muslims for help in fighting extremists.

  199. Urban_Underclass August 19, 2009 at 7:43 am #

    Thanks for that Andy, but it’s best to ignore this Jaego, he’s just a racist moron.

  200. agirbizz August 19, 2009 at 8:20 am #

    I get it now…a groupie striving to impress the artist with his knowledge of that artist’s work.
    We are all anticipating your being referenced in an upcoming CfN commentary.

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  201. zzzzzz August 19, 2009 at 8:25 am #

    Hey, numb-nuts,
    You agree that there is no money in SS then say, “Thank God the Wall Street Whores didn’t get it.” Didn’t get what? There is no money, you know, as in NONE.
    Had you been investing (SS contribution) with Wall Street all along, and left your money where it was and participated in the recent crash, you would have lost (on average) about a third of your investment. That is a fucking site better than the ZERO dollars that our Federal Government has managed to accumulate. (And you call Wall Streeters Whores? What is your term for those controlling the SS administration?)
    Furthermore, if Wall Street Whores get your money, it is because you choose to give it to them. They do not “take” (tax) it from you. A transaction between a whore and a john is voluntary unless rape is involved. Rape, is to take by force. The government, “rapes” on a regular basis. I’ll take my chances with the whores.

  202. zzzzzz August 19, 2009 at 8:35 am #

    Thousands of surgeries may be cut in Metro Vancouver due to government underfunding, leaked paper
    Story here:

  203. Funzel August 19, 2009 at 8:50 am #

    Jaego is about the only one that makes ANY sense.
    Except for a very few regulars here,you all sound like a bunch of a trained,retarded apes rehashing the obvious and hanging on to a few buzz words,like Nazi and racist.
    It is pretty evident that the decay and destruction of America can be laid at the feet of you,the victims of the Cuckoo.

  204. SNAFU August 19, 2009 at 10:21 am #

    Little Zz you did surprised me, I thought I saw a glimmer of thought in your semi reasoned review of David Green’s article. Unfortunately I can not agree with your views, primarily because I, as a relatively non-conventional old bastard, have not had the requisite lobotomy which converts one from their youth oriented liberal bias to the elderly oriented (I restrained my impulse to use the military preferred “orientated” Bushism) conservative bias. Enough of the sucking up, back to the business at hand. Having personally lost to the grim reaper a wife, an ex-wife, a brother, a sister, a cousin, 4 uncles, 3 aunts, a mother, a mother and father-law and a number of friends and acquaintances in the past 11 years I have more than a casual acquaintance with the business of death. It has consistently amused me that the humans most desirous of end of life pull out all of the stops medical intervention are those who profess to “know god” and are bound for the mythical “heaven above”. Most humans know when the end is neigh and given their druthers, if planned for or afforded the opportunity, die gracefully, sans tubes, pumps, electronics, doctors, nurses and hospitals. Unfortunately the current “health care” system views end of life care as a fabulous opportunity to fill their coffers to overflowing.
    “If the question is will services be withheld from seniors that could ultimately lead to their deaths, in a government run system, the answer is HELL YES.”
    I observe that you concur with the muddled thought processes of your compatriots that extreme language to incite reaction when used by the opposition is “alarmist”; but, simply the “bold truth” when espoused by a towering intellect such as yourself.
    ” There isn’t ten cents in the governments social security account.”
    As adroitly pointed out by pointed out by Cowswithguns the SS account has been systematically looted by so called law makers for many many years.
    “The idea behind privatization of SS was to give control to individuals. You know that way, even if they weren’t genius investors, even if they chose to put their contributions (Their, as in the fucking money they earned) under their mattress, they would have more than a fucking government IOU.”
    My gommerment IOU still spends same same as “real” money for me although I must admit that the majority of mine is CSRS with very little from SS. My brother and an Oncologist’s widow friend of mine who live off their “investments”, independently, told me that people such as myself didn’t understand the problems they were enduring as their nest eggs were pummeled by the recent shenanigans in the “market”. I magnanimously ignored these slights which implied that my lower on the hog life style was not as disrupted as were their much higher on the hog life styles.
    Little Zz you appear to have an “experts/heroes” fetish, I suggest a bit more thoughtful cogitation on your own rather than the Pavlovian approach preferred by conservative constituents.

  205. dale August 19, 2009 at 11:23 am #

    OK….”Funzel” added to list of don’t read and don’t reply

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  206. Jaego Scorzne August 19, 2009 at 11:45 am #

    Listen to Comrade Dale: don’t interact with persons x,y,z and don’t associate with people who associate with them. Sounds like Communism to me-or high school. And indeed, political correctness is our own home grown form of Communism. And it will destroy us as it destroyed the Soviet Union. But at least Russia survived-America will not. Fuck the commissar. He tries very hard not to learn anything and he generally succeeds.

  207. Jaego Scorzne August 19, 2009 at 12:26 pm #

    Good point-the Russians still have too many minorities. The Chechens in particular are an immense problem. Indeed they and other Muslim groups play the same role of creeping destruction as do the Mexicans here. In short, they must be expelled if Russia expects to survive. Also, Russia might elect to give up some territory to remain a vital nation. Kamal Ataturk did this back in the 1920’s for the same reason. As Kipling said: This was my father’s belief
    And this is also mine:
    Let the corn be all one sheaf-
    And the grapes be all one vine,
    Ere our children’s teeth are set on
    By bitter bread and Wine.
    The last verse of “The Stranger”

  208. Urban_Underclass August 19, 2009 at 12:27 pm #

    Duly noted dale, it’s great the time I’m saving not reading these clowns.

  209. dale August 19, 2009 at 12:29 pm #

    Yes, not reading them is the ticket for me, otherwise their stupidity and hatred is such an easy target it’s hard to resist.

  210. Urban_Underclass August 19, 2009 at 12:32 pm #

    That said I was surprised to learn that Political Correctness brought down the Soviet Union. Me thinking all along that it was the basket case ecomomy.

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  211. turkle August 19, 2009 at 12:52 pm #

    Funzel, you’ve changed my mind. Jaggoff Scorpone has been right all along.
    The white European race is simply a bunch of angels. If those damn Jews and Negros hadn’t started World War II, there might still be some French people left in Europe. As for World War I, that was all the fault of the Mexicans.
    Of course democracy shouldn’t be allowed at all. Universal suffrage is a MISTAKE. You can see from the post war history of Germany that race-based fascism is the one true political system that leads to worldwide success.

  212. turkle August 19, 2009 at 12:56 pm #

    No, see you are one of the sheep, and Jaego is like a wolf or eagle or some other animal with large talons or teeth. He isn’t stupid or full of hatred. On the contrary, he loves America more than you can possibly ever understand, and this is why he knows that black people don’t like to hike or go to museums.
    Baaahh baaah, go back to your sheep pen of political correctness!

  213. asia August 19, 2009 at 2:20 pm #

    DOG n PONY Shows
    He goes to europe to get applause!
    He just took the kids to the grand canyon!
    When i saw that i thought
    ‘ well the media thinks hes still the publics darling’
    apparently his visit to russia didnt go too well
    the public doesnt love him there!!!

  214. asia August 19, 2009 at 2:32 pm #

    They dont have thought crime laws in Europe?
    tell that to the van goghs and Bridget bardot
    she was fined for complaining about literally
    ‘sacrificial lambs’
    Bardot fined over racial hatred
    A French court has fined former film star Brigitte Bardot 15,000 euros (£12,000) for inciting racial hatred.
    She was prosecuted over a letter published on her website that complained Muslims were “destroying our country by imposing their ways”.
    It is the fifth time Ms Bardot been convicted over her controversial remarks about Islam and its followers. This is her heaviest fine so far.
    The French film idol, who is 73, was not in court to hear the ruling.
    The fine – equivalent to $23,000 – related to a letter she wrote in December 2006 to the then Interior Minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, which was published on her website, in which she deplored the slaughter of animals for the Muslim festival of Eid al-Adha.
    She demanded that the animals be stunned before being killed.
    She said she was “tired of being led by the nose by this population that is destroying us, destroying our country by imposing its acts”.
    In a letter to the court Ms Bardot, who is a prominent animal rights campaigner, insisted she had a right to speak up for animal welfare.
    The prosecutor said she was weary of charging Ms Bardot with offences relating to racial hatred and xenophobia.

  215. asia August 19, 2009 at 2:36 pm #

    WE see the future by looking at michigan and ohio
    way deep in the rust belt

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  216. asia August 19, 2009 at 2:44 pm #

    get yr facts right
    there are only 2 nations with anchor baby laws
    GUESS WHICH 2???
    O..one of them is the late great USA….after all no empire is forever
    and whens the last time you visited EIRE???
    im in california…the population here has nearly doubled in 30 years…
    and quality of life is collapsing..even w/o peak oil and peak water
    where are you?

  217. asia August 19, 2009 at 2:54 pm #

    is the govt broke?
    how they gonna pay for all this?
    with 50% of small bizes in USa not in the black
    [newsweek august 09]

  218. dale August 19, 2009 at 3:23 pm #

    I assume your last comment was tongue in cheek, at least I hope so.
    Calling someone “queer” instead of “gay” is an example of political incorrectness. Insisting that you, as a member of one race, are mentally and otherwise superior to other races is stupid, poisonous bullshit. Big difference.
    Debating such bullshit suggests there is any reason to take people making such comments seriously. Why not spend your time on something truly worthy of discussion?

  219. Jaego Scorzne August 19, 2009 at 4:19 pm #

    Well I admitted I might be wrong there-I said I think. But I remember they passed something big limiting immigration about two years ago based on a referendum. Maybe it was saying no to chain immigration not anchor babies-mein Gott what grotesque terms these are!
    Thanks for telling Andy what for. These commie bastards are liars-anything to push the forward the revolution.
    I’m on the East Coast-planning to go to the North West where Whites are going to make a stand. Why don’t you come too? Countless Californians have already fled, don’t be the last White Man on the Block. Trouble is they bring their baggage with them-start the PC talk right away. And they wont admit why they have come-it’s always “good schools, fresh air, low crime”-all true of course, but these all come from the Mexican Invasion which they wont admit to. Also they’ve raised the housing prices sky high, but what can you do. They’ve done the right thing for themselves and their families.
    See you next year in Coeur d’Alene-means “point of the awl in French. The local Indians were sharp traders. Still are-they run a nice little casino. Alot of full bloods too. Most Indians look like Jeremiah Wright or John Kerry-not a real Irish name. His real name was Kohn.

  220. Jaego Scorzne August 19, 2009 at 4:36 pm #

    Yes you’ve got it. I love Dale the way a cat loves a mouse. I can be gentle-like a mother cat is gentle with kittlens. And I can pretend to be gentle with a mouse-but it can only end one way.
    I’m glad you have joined us, welcome aboard son. Do you have any catnip on you?

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  221. abbeysbooks August 20, 2009 at 4:07 am #

    One reason liberals are confused is that the term political correctness obscures the truth. The truth is tolerance is destroying us. So change political correctness to tolerance and condemn it in your writing, speaking and thinking.
    Tolerance of primitive thinking, behavior, organized religion, fanaticism, and so on is going to destroy western civilization. The seeds of destruction are within us. As Toynbee says.

  222. abbeysbooks August 20, 2009 at 4:08 am #

    One reason liberals are confused is that the term political correctness obscures the truth. The truth is tolerance is destroying us. So change political correctness to tolerance and condemn it in your writing, speaking and thinking.
    Tolerance of primitive thinking, behavior, organized religion, fanaticism, and so on is going to destroy western civilization. The seeds of destruction are within us. As Toynbee says.

  223. abbeysbooks August 20, 2009 at 4:19 am #

    World War II was brought about initially by the stupid behavior of Americans at Versailles. Wilson could have had anything he wanted. Instead the Americans took their wives, and then didn’t want them walking around Paris to see dirty sex, so they accompanied them to protect their tender selves. This left Clemenceau (the old fox) and Lloyd George of Britain to do it. So it ended up being punitive and impossible for Germany. And Germany had not surrendered but sued for an armistice as it was obvious no one could win that war, that it would go on murdering thousands going back and forth over the same muddy trenches. Then the Germans were fucked badly.The torpedoing of the Lusitania was a put up job to get the US in. (Sound familiar?)
    War II could have been avoided buy France closed their eyes to Hitler’s take over of the Ruhr (and they had mucho power to stop him at that point but were bothered by internal political affairs) and of course Chamberlain appeased when he sould not have. So in a sense the allies were liberal and tolerant of Hitler and let him get away with his early onslughts without a peep. (Sound familiar?)
    Political correctness sucks. But start calling it tolerance.

  224. abbeysbooks August 20, 2009 at 4:34 am #

    This is exactly what’s wrong with being tolerant of Muslim customs. they are not tolerant of western free speech. It is clear France does not want a repeat of terrorist bombs in the Paris Metro and have been blackmailed into stifling people who speak out or punishing them severely. This is why Houellebecq cannot live in France. They don’t want a fatwa against him a la Rushdie. These islamists are dangerous.
    And the same goes for the fanatic religious right wing here in the US. And most of them are white. I feel that unconsciously they know they are threatened with extinction and are displacing their fear on all the wrong objects. Like health care, or birth certificates etc.

  225. cowswithguns August 20, 2009 at 4:53 am #

    Abbey said: “Tolerance of primitive thinking, behavior, organized religion, fanaticism, and so on is going to destroy western civilization. The seeds of destruction are within us.”
    True, I would include acceptance of things like the ancient Chinese practice of footbindings and the eugenics movement in that statement.
    We need to accept all cultures, sure, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t take a stand against certain inhumane or otherwise backwards ways of some.

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  226. budizwiser August 20, 2009 at 10:47 am #

    We need to accept all cultures, sure, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t take a stand against certain inhumane or otherwise backwards ways of some.
    Right, and after realizing that NBC aired at least five hours of prime-time “America’s Got Talent” this week – without so much as a “thirty minute documentary” about the most important federal legislation of our time – you can appreciate the true status of our American “culture” as well.
    A simple person might suggest that if national “news” networks are truly partially responsible for the public discourse surrounding the important matters of the day – they could find some one to explain “sesame street” style the, the reasoning and purpose behind the intricacies and complexities that come with trying to remake a nation’s health care/insurance industry.
    Of some interest to this BLOGS readers; the stark accuracies evident when making an analogy between the substance of the “health care debate” and trying to illuminate the public/government responsibilities surrounding PO, climate change or any other subject matter more involved than sitting back in an arm chair with beer and cheese-doodles in hand and guffawing at the clowns and contestants that reprise what is known as “America’s Got Talent.”
    Culture? Yeah, who’s going to take a stand against us?

  227. dale August 20, 2009 at 11:30 am #

    It’s interesting to follow the drift, or more appropriately perhaps, the violent zig-zags this blog has taken over the last 2-3 years. Initially the discussion was largely about the possibility of PO and it’s ramifications. While there was much shouting and pontificating there was also a fair amount of useful information and a number of posters with technical backgrounds who could shed light on aspects of the problems being discussed.
    As the specter of PO at least momentarily receded, a lively discussion on the potential of economic collapse moved to the forefront. Again, there were often posters with specific backgrounds who could offer useful information on the problems discussed and a number of meaningful citations or links which could shorten or focus research or inquiry into the problems being discussed.
    As both the economic and resource based discussions have receded for the time being what has increasingly replaced them in a lot of soap box political discourse better suited IMO, to left or right wing political sites. I’m not sure if many of those original posters have left or if they are just lurking in the background and not wasting their time with the current level of discussion.
    I’m starting to be embarrassed finding myself reading the content of this blog in it’s current incarnation.
    The politics, while largely pointless posturing and repetition of the sort of dialog the occurs on cable news networks, is at least tolerable, the racist ranting which is like a cancer here, is not. Therefore, I will step back, as others have done, and just read the commentary from JHK each week. Perhaps after awhile, these knuckleheads will tire of shouting at each other and move on to a site more suited to their individual taste. Until then, take care.

  228. Jaego Scorzne August 20, 2009 at 11:48 am #

    I thought about your suggestion, but I’d have to say no. Political Correctness shows its close relationship to Maoism in the form of self-censure and Stalinism in the form of censorship. And both systems persecute those who refuse to shut up. It’s obvious if people want to know, but they don’t. That’s the problem. Like the ancient’s said, character come first. Once that’s in place, learning can be healthy and put to healthy purposes. But PC types enjoy repression and represssing-our present system is more Big Sister than Big Brother. They just want to ruin you and reeducate you. But Big Brother isn’t far away.
    And that brings me to tolarance. If there was a movement in that direction, the dialectic masters like David Axelrod would use it to their advantage. How can we tolerate porn on the web? How can we tolerate internet bullying? Don’t we need some kind of control over the web? And of course the real reason, how can we tolerate “hate” and hate groups. No, make no mistake, tolerance is their ace in the hole. It would be different if we controlled the media. Then we could ask the real questions, how can we tolerate the incredible Black crime rates. How can we tolerate the crushing burden of third world immigration. How can we tolerate the Cult of MLK, a communist, plagiarist, and whore monger. How can we tolerate affirmative action. How can we tolerate fighting two wars thousands of miles away when we are broke and the real war is on our southern border. Yes we are too tolerant, but we must change philosophies not words. Political Correctness tolerates the wrong things-Fascism does not. Fascism does not tolerate treason, capitalism or communism. As Europeans, we have our own economic sytems which have nothing to do with these abominations.

  229. Urban_Underclass August 20, 2009 at 12:59 pm #

    Budizwiser wrote:
    Right, and after realizing that NBC aired at least five hours of prime-time “America’s Got Talent” this week – without so much as a “thirty minute documentary” about the most important federal legislation of our time – you can appreciate the true status of our American “culture” as well.
    Well said, the astonishing dumbing down of western culture is a constant source of consternation to me.

  230. Urban_Underclass August 20, 2009 at 1:06 pm #

    I’ll miss you dale. Hopefully the nazis will rant themselves out soon enough. One or two seem to me to have profile of the perpetrators of the Columbine Massacre.
    Probably will be dead or institutionalized before too long.

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  231. asia August 20, 2009 at 1:12 pm #

    new book
    20$ a Gallon
    IF SO IS THERE ANY INFO IN JHK Doesnt Have in his book?
    from amazon
    Engineer Christopher Steiner argues that the petroleum will become more scarce in the future and that the price of gasoline and oil will similarly increase..blablabla

  232. apolito August 20, 2009 at 1:16 pm #

    I think it’s worthy to note here that the U.S. doesn’t exist in a vacuum. As Stephen Leeb and others have pointed out, China, Indonesia, and India are now “growth” economies, and we are not, and perhaps never will be again. So as our own economy atrophies, driving demand and spending down, the Chinese are just getting started, what with demand for automobiles on the rise and their new Middle Class just getting started. If anyone is to drive oil prices up, it will be China, whose population dwarfs our own, and whose middle class is on the rise even as ours is on the decline.
    Years ago I heard about a wise person, commenting on global energy consumption, who said something to the effect of, “God help us once the Chinese start wanting ice in their Coke.”
    Those days are upon us!

  233. asia August 20, 2009 at 1:20 pm #

    Was it 5 months ago JHk opened his blog to readers comments?
    ‘zig-zags this blog has taken over the last 2-3 years. Initially the discussion was largely about the possibility of PO and it’s ramifications. ‘

  234. Andrew August 20, 2009 at 1:28 pm #

    Yes – a bit more detail on the social implications of increasing gasoline (aka petrol) prices. Good to borrow from the library for a read. I wouldn’t necessarily acquire a personal copy.
    Overall, I found it a little too optimistic particularly in the realm of social dynamics. I find this happens particularly when engineers (I’m one) begin to expand their theories of how things work to how societies work. This isn’t a negative – it is encouraging to see how different folks forecast effects. I think one particularly interesting social dynamics viewpoint is in JHK’s “World Made by Hand”.
    A good read though, and I think when you combine it Rubin’s book “Your world is about to get a whole lot smaller”, it refreshes some of the broader issues raised in JHK’s “Long Emergency”.

  235. zzzzzz August 20, 2009 at 2:59 pm #

    Kenny-boy sez:
    “Most humans know when the end is neigh and given their druthers, if planned for or afforded the opportunity, die gracefully, sans tubes, pumps, electronics, doctors, nurses and hospitals. Unfortunately the current “health care” system views end of life care as a fabulous opportunity to fill their coffers to overflowing.”
    Really? Well part of the current “health care” system includes insurers. Are you insinuating that they wish to incur the additional expenses with hooking up grandpa to a machine? Poor reasoning Kenny-boy, methinks senile dementia may be kicking in.
    Then he sez:
    “My gommerment IOU still spends same same as “real” money…”
    Certainly, as long as your “gommerment” chooses to honor their IOU. From all indications the Ponzi schemed, nature of SS indicates that at current promised levels of recompense, there is no way that the government will be able to honor what has been “promised.” Your rich friends, that have indicated a lesser degree of wealth due to the recent market melt-down, will have (or not have) what they have as a result of their own actions, not government largess.
    Sorry Kenny-boy but it all boils down to personal responsibility. The truth of the matter is that any government that has the power to give you everything has the same power to take it all away. You want to roll with the kunts in CON-gress? You am not two intellijent.

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  236. zzzzzz August 20, 2009 at 3:05 pm #

    “Therefore, I will step back, as others have done, and just read the commentary from JHK each week. ”
    Who the fuck cares?

  237. zzzzzz August 20, 2009 at 3:13 pm #

    This is so sad. I am so shocked. Try and read the following without weeping profusely:
    “WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama’s push for a national health care overhaul is providing a financial windfall in the election offseason to Democratic consulting firms that are closely connected to the president and two top advisers.
    Coalitions of interest groups running at least $24 million in pro-overhaul ads hired GMMB, which worked for Obama’s 2008 campaign and whose partners include a top Obama campaign strategist. They also hired AKPD Message and Media, which was founded by David Axelrod, a top adviser to Obama’s campaign and now to the White House. AKPD did work for Obama’s campaign, and Axelrod’s son Michael and Obama’s campaign manager David Plouffe work there.”
    Full Story here:

  238. Max Headroom August 20, 2009 at 3:23 pm #

    Dale typed “…violent zig-zag…”
    And here I thought you wrote zik-zak. Gotta to get Bryce to fix that.
    And then Dale typed “The politics, while largely pointless posturing and repetition of the sort of dialog the occurs on cable news networks, is at least tolerable, the racist ranting which is like a cancer here, is not.”
    Weellll, I could aruge that anything done here is pointless, but then I’d no longer have the variety of entertainment.
    More to the point, offensive ranting, whether it be racist, religious, political or just plain old potty-mouth, when taken in the context of the larger scheme of things, is a warning sign. As repulsive as it may be, and much of it certainly is, it should not be ignored but understood.
    In the case of race, it is as basic an identifier as you can get, as this layconstruct understands it.
    More importantly, I observe that most people rail against cultural manifestations of racial differences (prejudices), cultural religious practices and politcal dogma. But it seems that most are loathe to even learn of those that are different, much less discuss it rationally or reasonably. That (to learn or discuss) in and of itself does not constitute tolerance or diversity, but does give you the edge against dehumanization (a favorite government Jedi mind trick on the proles) as a prelude (civil) war crimes.

  239. Max Headroom August 20, 2009 at 3:29 pm #

    Ooops. “as a prelude (civil) war crimes.” should read as a prelude to (civil) war crimes.

  240. scott August 20, 2009 at 3:37 pm #

    Naw, JHK changed from typepad to moveable type? some months ago. His comments section has been around for several years.

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  241. Qshtik August 20, 2009 at 6:20 pm #

    Asoka said: “Sorry asia, I meant to reply to Qshtik who said people are not wading across the Rio Grande (emigration), not you.
    I followed the thread at this site you provided. A study was done on 68 “informants” who had retired to either Panama (37) or Mexico (31). Hahaha, heehee … thirty one retirees in Mexico. There are single family homes in New Brunswick, NJ that have 31 Mexicans living in them!!
    Although being a grossly invalid statistical sample for any purpose I, nevertheless, read the emigrants reasons for leaving the US. Low or zero property taxes and other low cost of living issues was far-and-away the number one reason. A few cited “political” reasons.
    Whut weev got heeuh is ASOKAFAIL
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.

  242. abbeysbooks August 20, 2009 at 6:32 pm #

    Yes little z insurers do prolong it. My mom for example, went into kidney failure at 86. She was in a nursing home run by Lutherans. Her doctor there wanted to put her on machines. And guess what? Medicare would have picked up most of the tab. Did you know that, honey?
    But I bet you didn’t know that this doctor was also a part of the group that owned another nursing home for terminal patients. Not a hospice, but a machine place to keep them alive.
    And collect, of course.
    You really should learn more than just sound bites.

  243. abbeysbooks August 20, 2009 at 8:21 pm #

    And all this is exactly why the repugs are against it. They know full well that when people get health coverage they will appreciate it and will continue to vote for the dems the rest of their lives. This is how FDR got 4 terms. People alive and suffering during the depression always voted democratic until they died.
    Health care will ensure the dems get payback for decades. Which is why Obama is so stupid about insisting for bipartisanship. He won’t get it. It is against their interests to have it go through in a dem administration. And it is against the dems to insist on bipartisanship.
    Leave the greedy basterds out in the cold I say.

  244. abbeysbooks August 20, 2009 at 8:53 pm #

    And all this is exactly why the repugs are against it. They know full well that when people get health coverage they will appreciate it and will continue to vote for the dems the rest of their lives. This is how FDR got 4 terms. People alive and suffering during the depression always voted democratic until they died.
    Health care will ensure the dems get payback for decades. Which is why Obama is so stupid about insisting for bipartisanship. He won’t get it. It is against their interests to have it go through in a dem administration. And it is against the dems to insist on bipartisanship.
    Leave the greedy basterds out in the cold I say.

  245. Celsius 233 August 20, 2009 at 10:33 pm #

    “What a nation of morons we have become.”
    If by morons you mean a nation that has given up rational thinking, the application of intelligence, lost it’s moral rudder (if in fact it ever had one), and a citizenry who appear to have given up all responsibility for their predicament; then yes, I agree. America has become an insane asylum and thank god I escaped the loony bin. It’s been a remarkable view from here; a view that is at once unbelievable and horrifying at the same time. I do not write this without compassion; however I see it as free choice to stay or leave with staying seemingly a bad choice.

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  246. Qshtik August 20, 2009 at 11:18 pm #

    “It’s been a remarkable view from here”
    Give us a hint … from what perch are you viewing “the loony bin?”
    BTW, the words “at the same time” are redundant … kinda like saying “at 3AM in the morning.” But since you haven’t given up “the application of intelligence” I’m sure you actually knew that.
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.

  247. Celsius 233 August 20, 2009 at 11:56 pm #

    That’s a grammatical thing having nothing to do with intelligence. Apparently you understood my meaning; so communication was effective. I’m as far away as can be without coming closer again. Seven years away gives one an interesting perspective, given one is open to such things.

  248. Agriburbia August 21, 2009 at 7:18 am #

    The new concept of ‘agriburbia’ will work to save suburbia if it can be implemented in time; see – http://www.agriburbia.com/

  249. Qshtik August 21, 2009 at 9:39 am #

    “That’s a grammatical thing having nothing to do with intelligence.”
    Yeah, good point … who needs grammar?
    As to where you’re viewing “the loony bin” from, I guess you choose to be coy like Asoka. You give hints like Alex Trebek and my job is to decipher them. OK, I’ll play along. Seven years ago you moved to a place half way around the globe from wherever you were in the US. That might be China, Australia (Perth), Singapore, etc. I’ll guess Singapore.
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.

  250. asoka August 21, 2009 at 9:46 am #

    Celsius 233 said: “I see it as free choice to stay or leave with staying seemingly a bad choice. ”
    I agree with you and salute you for your decision. I, too, am planning my escape (and no, Q, I will not say which country–there are many countries better than the USA to live. Let’s call it country X.)
    Country X has universal single payer health care. I have already built a house to retire to in country X because I lived and worked in country X for several years.

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  251. zzzzzz August 21, 2009 at 9:57 am #

    Lutherans? Oh my, not the dreaded Lutherans! Maybe the “Machine Place” would have been better.

  252. zzzzzz August 21, 2009 at 10:03 am #

    “I, too, am planning my escape…”
    Please hurry. You are sucking up far too much USA oxygen. If there are “many countries better than the USA to live” and you remain here, you are a MORON. (Of course that was established eons ago.)

  253. Qshtik August 21, 2009 at 10:41 am #

    “I have already built a house”
    With your own two hands? I never pictured you as the handy-with-tools type.
    Anyway, you make more flips than a minimum wage burger chef. Citizen of US, living in Canada and now, apparently, ready to go elsewhere. What happened to all that upbeat talk about how nicely things are evolving in the US under Obama?
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.

  254. Celsius 233 August 21, 2009 at 11:26 am #

    You asked for a hint, which I supplied. You’re close but no cigar. Don’t worry this too much. Almost anywhere outside of the US is good to go.

  255. Celsius 233 August 21, 2009 at 11:36 am #

    You appear to be an individual who can make independent decisions…good on ya. The status quo be damned! Life is as life does…

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  256. Qshtik August 21, 2009 at 12:03 pm #

    Zzz, do you understand yet how this comment system works. It was Asoka, not Abbey who wrote “I, too, am planning my escape…” so it is Canadian oxygen that is being sucked up, not USA oxygen.
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.

  257. Qshtik August 21, 2009 at 12:27 pm #

    If you’re a BEAR use days like this (S&P 500 up 1.6% as we speak) to trim your portfolio before Sept 8th.
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.

  258. asia August 21, 2009 at 1:01 pm #

    is this funny?
    popped up on my yahoo this a.m.
    remember greenspan/bush/obama etc
    Bernanke says U.S. economy on cusp of recovery (AP)
    AP – Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke declared Friday that the U.S. economy is on the verge of a long-awaited recovery after enduring a brutal recession and the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.

  259. zzzzzz August 21, 2009 at 1:19 pm #

    “Zzz, do you understand yet how this comment system works.”
    Yeah, I understand. You use up most of the electrons and no one gives a shit as to what you have to say.

  260. Qshtik August 21, 2009 at 2:05 pm #

    “Yeah, I understand. You use up most of the electrons and no one gives a shit as to what you have to say.”
    Guess that explains why you read and replyed to my post.
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.

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  261. kd August 21, 2009 at 3:07 pm #

    Been years since I visited the comments section at Clusterfuck Nation. I see One Eye Open has morphed into ZZZZZZ. And there’s an articulate racist on board now too.
    Jim’s weekly dispatches remain fascinating as ever. Interesting that there’s no one from the Ron Paul/Alex Jones camp spouting New World Order & virus/eugenics paranioa. I figured that was next.
    It’s an increasingly scary world out there. Assault rifles at presidential gatherings, folks a paycheck away from bankruptcy shouting “Communism! Nazism!” when the government tries to reform a predatory healthcare system (even though many of the same folks praise Medicare — which is, afterall, government-run healthcare), rising unemployment, & continued military spending & corporate welfare. Good luck to you all.

  262. zzzzzz August 21, 2009 at 4:05 pm #

    Thanks for stopping by. See you in years.

  263. Max Headroom August 21, 2009 at 4:23 pm #

    I am beginning to suspect this blog might be some kind of domestic clandestine honey-pot to bring the on-the-edge types out of their hidey-holes.
    On-on-on the other hand, what you see is what you get. Jimmy, does anybody scan this thing for diseases? Yo might want to have your sysop do some due D on the ads, you don’t want any drive-bys.
    I am curious, just what, exactly, is an assault rifle? What makes a given rifle an “assault rifle”? I mean, if you are a dear, any rifle would pretty much constitute an “assault rifle”. It is highly unlikley it is an automatic weapon – spray and splat – unless you are law enforcement or military. Legal civilian ownership of fully automatic weapons is a significantly more arduous approval process and I do not recall the individual at the aforementioned rally being arrested for anything, much less weapons violations. And, if I remember correctly, Arizona is an open carry state. Which if I also recall, makes flipping people off on the freeway a dicey proposition at best.
    I mean, outside of the menacing militaristic appearance and large capacity clips, are they not just semi-automatic rifles? Would anyone feel better if the guy showed up with a scoped Mossy Oak bolt-action deer rifle?

  264. Max Headroom August 21, 2009 at 4:26 pm #

    Uuuhh, that would be DEER, not dear.
    BRYCE! WTF is up with…. wait, is this thing still on…

  265. Jaego Scorzne August 21, 2009 at 6:12 pm #

    Yes, what’s happening is truly beautiful-Whites are losing their shame. At at town hall meeting, people held up pictures of Obama as Hitler while Barney Frank sputtered in rage. He said it was only a testimony to the first amendment that people were allowed to do this. The woman at the microphone could not be shamed and just held the picture higher. She did not care for his alleged Jewish moral superiority nor Obama’s fatuous Black moral superiority. Now for Barney to invoke the first amendment is grotesque-he was one of the major supporters of the hate crime bill and would love to put people away for speaking out. Nor has Barney ever accepted his part in crashing the economy thru forced loans to unqualified minorities. The guy is a bad, nasty cartoon. If he’s Barney, what cartoon character would Nancy Pelosi be?

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  266. Celsius 233 August 21, 2009 at 9:26 pm #

    Good for you. It’s a very big, wonderful world and the U.S. (contrary to popular belief) is not the center of the universe.

  267. Celsius 233 August 21, 2009 at 9:28 pm #

    You asked for and received a “hint”; that’s all you get. 😉

  268. Cthulhu August 21, 2009 at 10:35 pm #

    What makes a given rifle an “assault rifle”?
    Light-weight and in-accurate over moderate distance- ie, no good for hunting or target practice, but good for close-up killing.
    The dining room table at Barney’s get-together is a Lyndon LaRouche acolyte. It is hard to have a rational discussion with someone that thinks Queen Liz is the center of evil on Earth, first admenment or not.

  269. Max Headroom August 21, 2009 at 11:47 pm #

    Cthulhu typed “Light-weight and in-accurate over moderate distance- ie, no good for hunting or target practice, but good for close-up killing.”
    Well, in this article
    they reference a semi-automatic AR-15. No folding stock, effective range of about 600 yds, standard length barrel, commonly used for hunting and in the hands of a skilled shooter, a respectable sniper rifle. The apparantly stock photo in the article appears to be a misleading military issue M16 with attached M203 grenade launcher. In the video I saw it was most likely a civilian Bushmaster or equivilant, slung over his back with what I’m betting was an empty clip. The handgun would have been a bigger concern.
    For your description, with which I generally agree, I think one would expect a short, tactical type barrel, folding or collapsible stock and 3-shot burst or full-auto capability on a one-point sling.

  270. abbeysbooks August 22, 2009 at 12:20 am #

    No excuse for allowing this. Bush wouldn’t let you in wiyh a controversial t-shirt.

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  271. Max Headroom August 22, 2009 at 12:26 am #

    What’s not to allow. The man was within the law and not actually IN the rally venue.

  272. Max Headroom August 22, 2009 at 12:32 am #

    Besides, for every gun you could see, there were probably five licensed concealed handguns in that crowd. Lord only knows what the bangers were toting.

  273. Jaego Scorzne August 22, 2009 at 12:56 am #

    Yeah the Larouchies are a cult but they have gotten better people last few years. A decade ago all their people were visibly crazy, twitching like. Now they have college students…
    But just because he’s crazy doesn’t mean he’s totally stupid. He knows about the Conspiracy, and knows that England was the first country taken over completley. I assume that’s where the irrationality about the Queen comes from.
    Both sides of the Conspiracy, Jewish and Gentile, were stong in England. The Gentile side, begun by Cecil Rhodes, was originally meant to spread British Culture. He was a disciple of Ruskin and carried Tennyson’s poem “Locksley Hall” always in his pocket. How it went from that kind of innocence, to actually trying to breed Whites out of existence through massive third world immigration, is beyond imagination. How is the Death of the West the spreading of British Culture? Perhaps it was the Jewish Capitalist/Communist influence, I don’t know. I was looking at H.G Wells’ autobiography in the library the other day. I’ve always loved his science fiction, and I was saddened to see his absolute love affair with Russian Communism, just like Shaw and the Webbs. I had been warned by a fellow Conspiracy Reader about this, but it was still hard to see. I’m took out “The Shape of Things to Come”-his vision of a just world in fictionalized form. Nothing in there about Race per se or mass immigration. These ideas must have come to the fore after his time. My friend told me that Wells was a believer but decried the brutality which would have to be inflicted on Humanity to make the One World happen.

  274. abbeysbooks August 22, 2009 at 1:01 am #

    If I were a terrorist I would take close note of this and make my plans. It signals strongly to anyone with terrorist ideas, and gives them info on how they might assassinate Obama.
    An example: The 9-11 Newsweek (or Time) issue that came out had nuclear reactors on the cover and the lead to the story was are they protected? Or something on that order.
    The inside story in the zine was a detailed expose of how they could be compromised. I gulped when I read it and all I could think was what if this had run a week before week or some weeks before. Would the terrorists have picked them for targets? It would have wiped out the entire eastern seaboard. New York etc just gone.
    I think it was just due to their concrete thinking that they chose the WTrade Towers and the Pentagon and probably the WH or Congress (which would have been devastating)to blow up instead.

  275. Johnny Rico August 22, 2009 at 4:43 am #

    “And lay off the speed. You’ll live longer.”
    Dude, if I could find some speed, they’d have to rename me Augustus.
    You are getting slightly smarter, but just stick to what you’re good at.
    If I need advice, I’ll ask Karl Rove…ahahhahhhhaahhahahahhhaaaa….
    Sorry, I meant, sorry, oh shit, I think I might laugh myself to death….
    Rachel Maddow? This is TOO COOL!
    OEO – You’re gonna love this one. I ain’t kidding neither.

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  276. Johnny Rico August 22, 2009 at 4:57 am #

    Dude. You can’t write this much. You need to chilly chill.
    Everybody here knows the MO. It’s Patrick.
    Don’t underestimate me. I’ve signed more peace-deals here.
    There is a reason OEO is chill.
    There is a reason Nudge doesn’t post but once in a blue moon.
    There is a reason we all miss Brandon.
    There’s a reason Doom can concentrate on his studies.
    There is a reason I don’t post multiple youtube links every second.
    We are at peace.
    We all decided. HEY!! This is how it goes down.
    You fuck that up.
    We crucify you.
    I’m just saying.
    Chill. Mudderfucker. I gotta go see my girlfriend and then rap with the Doomster after. Catch you on the flipside. Or whatever.
    Just don’t mess with this community. I’ll be out out of town for a coupla weeks. You got questions – address them to OEO/zzzz.
    He’s always good. If OEO ain’t around. Try Yarra. He’s in Australia, but we let him decide shit for us.
    Don’t even come close to me. I can smell your breath from here. I’m on permanent vacation.

  277. Johnny Rico August 22, 2009 at 5:13 am #

    Kinda like my boy Bunn Bunn.
    We can not be in the same room together without me laughing.
    The second he enters I realize he has a huge prick and I can never compare. I just burst out.
    He’s trying to start a relationship with this half-deaf, Rupublican, who is the daughter of a latino who like gays.
    It is so hard. It is sooo-hard. Handicapped people are so difficult to deal with and they always wanna grab so much of the pie.
    Yeah. Bunn Bunn has been eliminating these forces.
    He should GET PAID MORE

  278. Johnny Rico August 22, 2009 at 5:30 am #

    Bloodthirsty Demon who lives underground.

    If only you knew those lyrics.
    OEO did.
    I do.
    Don’t fuck with us.
    Don’t duck us.

  279. Johnny Rico August 22, 2009 at 5:57 am #

    “P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.”
    If you are caught displaying this again, it’s crucifiction.
    PS, what? Do I look like I need to catch up on the news?

  280. Nudge August 22, 2009 at 6:11 am #

    Someone on another blog cross-posted Dale’s comment there for our amusement. It seemed the right thing to do to post a follow-up here to perhaps clear the air a little:
    Like many of the other things he’s posted on CFN over the years, Dale’s exit speech is not entirely devoid of irony. Consider the way he says that during the previous PO/collapse discussions, there were a number of posters with useful information, technical backgrounds, and so on. The irony is that back when those exchanges were taking place, Dale was a total we’ll-muddle-through stick-in-the-mud wah-wah-wah-don’t-wanna-hear-it I’ll-keep-driving-forever USA#1 petulant little assturd.
    And now he pretends to be appreciative of the same people whose earnest words he didn’t want to hear at the time? Give me a fricking break.
    Dale is simply a DQ/AW type .. drama queen or attention whore, take your pick.

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  281. Johnny Rico August 22, 2009 at 6:32 am #

    OEO is good.
    Good luck to your friend.

  282. Johnny Rico August 22, 2009 at 6:36 am #

    Train roll on. I’m gonna get Brittey Spears or Miley Cyrus to take a dump on you.
    Don’t you ever come back here. Leave my boys alone.

  283. Nudge August 22, 2009 at 8:09 am #

    Actually, Dale was correct in one aspect of the UPL leading the way: as the primary consequence of being the one nation to say up-front that we weren’t going to bother doing anything about H1N1 because it supposedly might interfere with “business activity” (if you can find any these days, that is), the United Parking Lot of America now leads the world in confirmed Swine Flu cases:
    Got healthy immune system?

  284. Urban_Underclass August 22, 2009 at 11:32 am #

    Max Headroom wrote,
    I mean, outside of the menacing militaristic appearance and large capacity clips, are they not just semi-automatic rifles? Would anyone feel better if the guy showed up with a scoped Mossy Oak bolt-action deer rifle?
    The point is showing up a political meeting with a menacing looking gun, or any gun for that matter is a deliberate attempt to undermine democracy. I am so sick of these right-wing hypocrites.
    Defending freedom, my ass.

  285. ozone August 22, 2009 at 12:34 pm #

    No worries, U-U!
    Freedom is about to come crashing over the horizon! Huzzah! …and the damnfoolsofmurka and their corporate masters rejoiced…

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  286. Qshtik August 22, 2009 at 12:35 pm #

    “I, too, am planning my escape (and no, Q, I will not say which country–there are many countries better than the USA to live. Let’s call it country X.)”
    I’m confused … you’re planning your escape from where? Canada or the US? In any case, this is good. Perhaps now you’ll focus your advice on a country you actually live in. Tell the people of country X how to spend their tax revenues. Push for suffrage for illegal immigrants and pet turtles in country X.
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.

  287. Max Headroom August 22, 2009 at 12:47 pm #

    “The point is showing up a political meeting with a menacing looking gun, or any gun for that matter is a deliberate attempt to undermine democracy.”
    How so?
    “Defending freedom, my ass.”
    More like exercising rights under the first and second amendment.
    “I am so sick of these right-wing hypocrites.”
    Well on that we agree. Then again, there is no shortage of hypocrisy these days.

  288. asia August 22, 2009 at 1:42 pm #

    Briefly noted
    Toyota may close the last auto plant in california!
    ever wonder why yr bank card is out of south dakota?
    according to radio host its cause Sd doesnt have usery laws!

  289. asia August 22, 2009 at 1:47 pm #

    I am so sick of these right-wing hypocrites
    and lefties too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    barney frank first n foremost

  290. Qshtik August 22, 2009 at 2:34 pm #

    “barney frank first n foremost”
    Have some compassion for Chrissake … how would you like to be a gay Jew who talks like Elmer Fudd?
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.

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  291. Qshtik August 22, 2009 at 2:39 pm #

    “I’m on permanent vacation.”
    We should be so lucky.
    “P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.”

  292. zzzzzz August 22, 2009 at 2:40 pm #

    Hey, dick-lips,
    Whats wrong with Jews? Or gays? Or for that fucking matter, Elmer Fudd? You ask for compassion for” Christ’s sake” and then dump on Jews? You really are a clueless FUCKTARD aren’t you

  293. Jaego Scorzne August 22, 2009 at 4:52 pm #

    Yes Dale was a Hair Dresser on Fire. And I vanquished this Sphinx, this PC Gorgon, this Male not Man. I challenged “him” to single combat and he fled screaming curses, complaining of “mental constipation”-thinking is so much effort, he prefers infallible dogma. Mine is the Glory. Mine and none other. Where is he now that I might follow and finish him even as Beowulf followed Grendel?

  294. Flyover August 22, 2009 at 5:40 pm #

    Dale-Fail One of the many simple-minded clusterfuckers who are unable to think for themselves.

  295. Qshtik August 22, 2009 at 5:41 pm #

    To paraphrase a recent book review:
    Zzz epitomizes the ressentiment of vitriolic bloggers, with their nasty habits … searching not for things to love but a place to put their rage.
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.

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  296. Jaego Scorzne August 22, 2009 at 5:45 pm #

    I don’t think anyone would bother assasinating Obama, after all he’s not really in charge. He’s just a frontman, nothing more. And if he was assasinated, not only would it not stop the cancer, but it would give the Establishment an excuse to crush any and all opposition. Plus, the Blacks would riot killing Whites and causing untold amounts of damadge. So no one from my neck of the woods thinks about it anyway. If he is killed, it is more likely to be an inside job-the Elite feeling that he’s getting too off message. It’s fine theater to talk against the West Bank Developments, but let’s see if he actually does anything. Rahm Emmanuel is not an Israel hating Jew as someone said a while back. Such types are actually quite rare. Rahm is a dual citizen who fought in the IDF. He is Zionist Royalty. His presence is the best indicator of where this administration is really going. If he got fired, then I’d fear for Obama perhaps.
    I don’t think Obama is a complete cipher. I assume his concerns for Africa and the Third World are very real-as is his disdain for Whites and Western Civilization. All that fits in perfectly with the Jews in particular and the goals of the Elite in general. If Obama plays along, I assume they will let him do some of things he really wants to do-if possible of course. All that aid to Africa might get a bit unpopular as things collapse. But bringing in millions of Africans, PERFECT. You can’t make this stuff up, these people are completely disconnected from reality. The only idea more terrifying would be that they do know what they’re doing.

  297. Qshtik August 22, 2009 at 5:50 pm #

    “Where is he now that I might follow and finish him even as Beowulf followed Grendel?”
    It was just a matter of time … Jaego has “gone off the deep end.”
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.

  298. Qshtik August 22, 2009 at 6:16 pm #

    “these people are completely disconnected from reality.”
    “Off the deep end” … Exhibit A … see above.
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.

  299. abbeysbooks August 22, 2009 at 7:58 pm #

    I agree with you. It is not just a concrete thing, bringing a gun to an Obama crowd.
    It is a symbolic gesture of intimidation. It has nothing to do with freedom. Like when an abusive husband plays with his gun in the house, cleaning it, polishing it, loading and unloading it. The action is meant to intimidate.
    And if a lot of people do this, it makes it so easy for a nut to blend in.

  300. Urban_Underclass August 22, 2009 at 8:34 pm #

    I read the article, is that you joe?, liked it for that matter.
    Doubt if those farmers who took on England bathed once a week, or once a month for that matter, but that a minor quibble.
    Speaking as one who makes his living playing music on the streets at night, all I can say is that most people in the western world are pampered fucking cowards.
    You know what they say about frogs? That if you put them in a pot of boiling water they’ll struggle like crazy, but if you put them in a pot of cold water and put in on a stove and let it heat up, they will sit there and quietly boil to death.
    Well that’s where we’re at. Quietly boiling to death.
    As long as we have Amerika’s got talent and our booze and our video games and our guns to stroke we’re happy.
    As for the media, well, if any naive, well meaning idiot tries to shake things up, a lå president Obama, they will kick up an almighty shit storm just to put them in their place. Because they want you sitting quietly in your pot slowly boiling to death. Because the people who own the media are making money, it’s as simple as that. They don’t want to pay tax so some joe paycheck can have healthcare, next thing you know he’ll get all uppity and want free college tuition for his kids like some fucking European socialist, and THEN HIS KIDS WILL GET EVEN MORE UPPITY and where the fuck will Mr. Rupert Murdoch and all his buddies be if they end up having to pay even more tax?
    Next thing these educated uppity bastards might start asking awkward questions like, WHY IS MY GOVERNMENT GIVING SO MUCH OF MY MONEY TO HALLIBURTON CORP?
    Then people might start voting for someone other than the Democrats or the Republicans and then you might start having a real democracy and who knows what weirdness could ensue…
    I could go on but feel I am wasting my time…

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  301. Urban_Underclass August 22, 2009 at 8:38 pm #

    How so?
    Simple, if I showed up for a town hall meeting and there was some muddahfuckah standing around outside with an automatic rifle on his shoulder, I’d do the sensible thing and go home.
    Therefore not getting my chance to democratically express my point of view.

  302. Jaego Scorzne August 22, 2009 at 11:21 pm #

    The right to bear arms is key, without it, none of the other rights mean anything. Free men are armed men-and women can get in on it too so don’t start the “abusive husband” stuff. Read some early constitutional literature, the goverment is supposed to be afraid of the people. That’s what’s great about the Founding Fathers, they knew how horrible people really are-thus endless checks and balances on power. And an armed populace is a good check. You need to learn how to use a gun so you wont be so afraid of them and want to take them away from people.
    The rate of physical abuse between the sexes is about equal. Men don’t call the police, that’s why we don’t know about it. And also, men’s abuse averages out to be more deadly, so you’re right about that. The woman who started the shelter movement for women once tried to open a shelter for battered men. She was deluged with incredible hatred from feminists, including death threats. The highest rate of domestic abuse among lesbians.

  303. Jaego Scorzne August 22, 2009 at 11:35 pm #

    Just hold him down and I’ll pound the nails in. It’s too good for him though, he does not deserve to die like Christ.
    I realize where I know you from-you’re Action in West Side Story. And Turkle is A-rab. Whatever happened to the girl who played Anybody’s I wonder. The most beautiful girl in the movie wasn’t Maria or Anita or Velma-it was Anybody’s. The sweet, voluptuous, heterosexual, Tomboy is the best woman in this world or any other. They have the best qualities of both genders-as opposed to some here who have the worst qualities of both. Not all androgynes are created equal-some are moving beyond gender through fullness, like Balzac’s Seraphita. And some are beneath gender having ambiguous or undeveloped emotional or physical qualities. See Robert Bly’s “The Sibling Society” for the story of how young men are failing to develop masculinity. All part of the plan. There’s a new program in Sweden in which they give young boys girls’ names. Nice, huh?

  304. Jaego Scorzne August 23, 2009 at 1:48 am #

    300. Good movie. One commentator called it a battle between the U.S Marines and a Gay Pride March. But there is a darker side: the Persians looked an awful lot like Arabs. Could 300 have been a propaganda movie? Frank Miller, author of Sin City, says that the original Marvel Heroes were all “golems”-Jewish Creatures created to protect the Jews. This becomes significant when one realizes that almost all the original Marvel Artists were Jews. They used their talents to focus and narrow they young American Imagination along channels they approved of. Miller also says it time for cartoonists to “get busy again”.
    The origial golem was supposedly created by Rabbi Loew of Prague to protect the Jewish Community of that City. The Golem was a large man like creature/robot contolled by the Rabbi who had given it life and could take away its life. This story might have influenced Mary Shelley in her story about Frankenstein.

  305. Johnny Rico August 23, 2009 at 2:42 am #

    Holy Fuck, Jim!
    300 Comments. second week in a row. What gives? You are turning into a blogging god.
    Next thing you know, Bif, Holmes, and Brandon will be back here. Brandon will fight and defeat Patrick every night. Ahh, the good old days.
    You Da Man!
    But you still suck at predictions.
    Strangely, Cape Cod hasn’t shriveled up and fallen into the sea. Even with an impending non-hurricane.
    I’ve been thinking. I mean… it’s pretty obvious… you have a horrible vision of the future, and by horrible, I mean inaccurate.
    Long time readers (which at this point only includes Asoka, OEO, and me) know that your vision of the future is really, really aweful.
    And by aweful, I mean twice as bad (at least) as weather forecasters.
    The ones on local TV. The ones who predict tomorrow. The same ones who don’t even bother past ten days.
    You think you can do two or three months out.
    Jim, you are a comedian.
    When you pick a fight with a cobra, it is lights out.

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  306. Johnny Rico August 23, 2009 at 3:17 am #

    “the Persians looked an awful lot like Arabs. Could 300 have been a propaganda movie?”
    Falluja is Thermopylae. You are a complete Jackass.
    300 was a “Hollywood” movie that pulled in … whatever… $300 mil.

  307. Johnny Rico August 23, 2009 at 3:23 am #

    “Read some early constitutional literature”
    Don’t ever tell anybody what to read here.
    Either quote or attribute in your argument, but don’t put the burden on your opponent, who is most likely kicking your ass. This is counterproductive – FOR YOU.
    It only demonstrates that you have no idea what you are fucking talking about.
    Early constitutional literature. That’s hilarious. I’m sure your bookshelves are overflowing with that genre.
    Will somebody kill this motherfucker already?

  308. Flyover August 23, 2009 at 4:18 am #

    Sounds like Johnny Rico has growed hisself a hardon. Go Johnny Go You simpleminded clustefucker.

  309. Flyover August 23, 2009 at 4:19 am #

    For all the anal retentive, here’s the fucking “r”

  310. Johnny Rico August 23, 2009 at 4:36 am #

    I’m crazy insane.
    My idol is Sherman.
    I use flank position to destroy.
    I am Hoffman.
    I am a material expert.
    I use crossroads to Walmart my troops. I use my troops to kill you.
    I understand ambush.
    You are a douche.
    I use CFN on a Friday night to blow off some steam.
    My future wife is taking me on a date tomorrow. And I want to be in rare form.
    There can be no pent-up anger.
    So don’t fuck with me.

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  311. Arkady August 23, 2009 at 9:15 am #

    Canadian/Pole/Austrian here. I’ve heard my share of jokes, but never the proverbial polish blanket joke. It is good.
    Have you heard of the Agency’s blanket joke?
    You just cut off the bottom two inches.
    kiss kiss

  312. SNAFU August 23, 2009 at 10:58 am #

    Little Zz:
    Didn’t have an opportunity to get back with you sooner I was exercising personal responsibility by working on my new wood shed so that I can get my Winter wood stored and continue to heat my abode with renewable fuel.
    You are correct, of course, the insurance companies are “PART” of the health care system and since they would quickly cease to exist if they had no subscribers they simply jack up their rates to accommodate the out of control anti-health care system.
    For some reason I suspect that you, as do many conservative, believe that government is a pox created by your god, I mean your satin, from whole cloth specifically to take from the “good” hard working well off citizens and give to the “slovenly lazy, sans a pot to piss in, scum of the Earth who unfortunately were born in the same country in which you as well were. Obviously you disagree with Lincoln’s “of the people by the people for the people”, description of our government whilst speaking at Gettysburg 19Nov1863, so I assume you reject that you are part and parcel of this countries government; congratulations.
    Your contention that SS is a Ponzi scheme, by inference I assume you include CSRS, is typical of the Pavlovian response ingrained in conservative thought via years of non-thinking acceptance of the dogma of religion, capitalism, free enterprise, defense and patriotism which leads to elitist beliefs.
    My contention is that the government does not “give” me my retirement; I earned it when I stepped up and accepted the request of the people of the USA to assist in their defense as a member of the US Military; 10 years active duty 17+ years DoD. I did not leave for Canada, I did not rush to marry, I did not pay a doctor for a fictitious medical disability I did not attempt to evade in any manner my responsibility to my country to help protect you, your parents, your siblings and every other citizen of the USA just as all past and present members of the US Military have and are doing. Those “worthless eaters” so despised by conservatives sure as hell come in handy when “cannon fodder” is required to enable them to continue ripping off the Earth without putting their elitist asses on the line.
    Personal responsibility; you would not recognize personal responsibility if it was biting you on the ass.

  313. Morgan from Cycle 9 August 23, 2009 at 11:26 am #

    I can’t get the trackbacks to take, so here’s a link to my response:
    “In his most recent blog post, titled “The First Die-Off” he talks about driving his car back from a vacation on Cape Cod, and being stuck in traffic. He claims there is “no train service” and uses that as his excuse for having driven the car.

  314. Jaego Scorzne August 23, 2009 at 1:59 pm #

    Easy Action. I’m just lookin’ out for you. Does your future wife know about Bunn Bunn? How is the cranberry bog doing this year with all the weird weather?

  315. Jaego Scorzne August 23, 2009 at 2:26 pm #

    The logic of psychological conditioning is not the same as the facts of history. And few Americans know the facts anyway. Fallujah might as well be Themopyle and Arabs might as well be Persians. In other words, Americans are easy to condition. They knew we would identify with the Greeks and some of the Persians had on Arab head cloths whatever they’re called. Persains don’t wear those and they don’t consider themselves Arabs. Also the Ancient Persians looked alot like the Greeks, at least the upper classes. The Persians in the movie were dark Arab types except for the King himself and Bessus his general.

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  316. asia August 23, 2009 at 4:31 pm #

    Despite the urging of their government, Americans cannot be ..spending
    Newsweek did a cover story
    ‘get out yr wallets and spend’
    the dreaded f. zakariah
    he of the cover story
    ‘ taliban chic in london’

  317. asia August 23, 2009 at 4:44 pm #

    so he used the ‘j’ word
    and the gggg..gay word

  318. Qshtik August 23, 2009 at 9:19 pm #

    “Easy Action. I’m just lookin’ out for you”
    Jaego, I know you’re f’d up but how can you kiss that PS Pip Squeak, Jennie Rico smack on the asshole ( * ). Despite severe paranoia, I thought you, at least, had some integrity but that’s out the window now.
    P.S. Rico/Zzz delendus est.

  319. budizwiser August 23, 2009 at 10:49 pm #

    Not very interesting – yet exactly the way “it” is supposed to end. So many, trying so hard to act as if they had anything meaningful to say – as if it any of their thoughts mattered.
    What is the graceful way to impress? What will it matter a few years from now? What is an appropriate decorum as the ship falters and starts to list?
    Is it necessary to scream an alert at this late stage? Or is there still time to change course?
    This old man wonders; why no cries from our children? Are they not seeing the future our eyes perceive?

  320. Donny-Don August 24, 2009 at 12:04 am #

    One can track the accuracy of Kunstler’s predictions (or lack thereof) at:

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  321. bervol August 24, 2009 at 5:16 pm #

    As for the “But I can save(half, quarter, whatever, on hour) if I drive!” crowd, I would like to know what exactly they do with the time saved. Considering how much time the avg. American spends in front of the TV nightly, I’d wager that the time “saved” ends up spent in front of the tube, taking in the daily dose of “Reality” programming.

  322. JMNYC August 26, 2009 at 6:18 pm #

    I would almost be able to take Kunstler seriously if he had written his latest Highway Blues piece after returning from the Cape in a horse and buggy, rather than his Yup-Mobile. You were just another one of those millions my man, regardless of your doomsday philosophy. And the next time you complain about the State of the Union while flying business class out to wherever it is people pay to hear you blabber, remember you should have taken a clipper ship around the real Cape. It’s not all good you see.

  323. mustbeyou August 27, 2009 at 7:32 pm #

    First, there were horses as transportation. Then there were horses and buggies as mass transportation. Then, private investment built the railroads. The ‘Golden Age of Railroads’ lasted almost 100 years. It was hugely popular and profitable.
    Then, automobiles became popular. Why? FREEDOM. Anyone could drive anywhere – anytime they wanted. That meant they could also live and work anywhere they wanted. This meant the auto companies would be even more popular and profitable than the railroads. And so they were. For 100 years until this very day.
    But now, the flat-earth folks want us all to join them back in time. Cars use too much carbon. Europe has lots more rail. I live in downtown Chicago; why would I need a car? (So it logically follows – why would anyone need a car?) Etc.
    Solar and wind power supplied 1%-2% of all energy 20 years ago. Today, after massive spending, solar and wind power supplies 3%-5% of all energy. wow. At this rate, we should be able to wean ourselves off the devils brew in, oh, another 100 years or so.
    Electric cars? Do people think the magic electric fairy recharges their cars for free? Sorry to break this, but electricity comes from power plants that use mostly coal and natural gas. Europe? Europe is small, densely populated and has an infrastructure that’s been built over thousands of years. America is totally different.
    I read an article recently about how to to keep cool in the summer. The usual crap about closing blinds, putting a cool cloth around your neck, use ice cubes etc. It was like something from the 1940’s. Not one word about air conditioning. Combine this with the ‘railroad’ people – and they wish we all still lived in 1890.

  324. JMNYC August 30, 2009 at 9:00 pm #

    Poor Jimmy, driving and flying through all that horror to tell us how fucked up we are. Somewhere in the darker recesses of my imagination I see Jimmy out there in a one hoss shay, berating and damning us all for our damnable lifestyles. Keep plowing on deuchbag.

  325. ludo100 August 31, 2009 at 10:15 am #

    “rail service from Boston to Albany no longer exists, amazing as it seems”. Check out the Amtrak website to find 449 Lake Shore Limited, 5 hours and 40 minutes point to point. Cheer up! Maybe things aren’t so bad.

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  326. margot sheehan September 5, 2009 at 12:47 pm #

    Aw Jim, the ride to Cape Cod and back has always been hell. People used to fly to Hyannis and the Islands very cheaply and conveniently, but now it costs ten times as much.