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The Blue Bus Is Calling Us

     Zeez European politicians unt economists all zound like rocket scientists wiss all zeir charming euro-chatter. But zey must be quite dumb to machen zuch an unglaublich scheiße sturm of zee système financier. Che cazzo è?
     Surely all the pretending nears its dire conclusion. Everybody is broke and everybody is in hock up to his prefrontal lobes and everybody is whirling around the drain over in the grand continental theme park of lovely cities and great eats. I’m sorry, but I don’t see how they can stop the hemorrhaging as we slide into the season of holiday enchantment. 
     Every bank (and its uncle) is dumping everybody’s sovereign bonds as though they were discovered to be croissants imported from a leper colony. Feh…! Folks of all stripes and accents desperately seek to move their money to some safe harbor – but where is this cozy mooring? To the US for the moment perhaps; but what happens Monday morning when the markets react to the weekend news that the US Senate super-committee has been utterly unable to agree on decisive action that would forestall the scheduled massive automatic budget cuts built into this red-white-and-blue doomsday machine – not to mention the ratings agencies threats to knock UST-paper down another notch upon such failure. Oy yoy yoy!
     Just to be plain here: nothing is working. The global system of accounting control fraud has completely unraveled. Nobody will lend money to anybody anymore because everybody suspects everybody else is lying about their ability to meet any obligation. The whole world has become a daisy chain of schnorrers and schmiklers. All those hundreds of trillions of dollars in credit default swap insurance (ha!). Worthless and pointless, because now that a Greek default of at least 50 percent, officially, has failed to ignite a payout, then no default will. Instead, you’ll just get cascades of un-hedged defaults. All the lawyers who ever lived could litigate until the sun turns into a red dwarf and they will never resolve these swindles, and the money represented in them will be so far gone that not even Ray Kurzweil in full Singularity mode will encounter a trace of it in his eternal travels through a zillion parallel universes.
     So much for the hedge fund industry. I hope the folks who ran those cute operations enjoyed their years in Fairfield County, Connecticut, and Saddle River, New Jersey, because in a few weeks they’ll be disguising themselves as OWSers in some makeshift urban encampment in order to line up for three-day-old bagels. Personally, I look forward to test-driving a few $5000 “must-sell” pre-owned Lamborghini Sesto Elementos, not that I’d actually buy one. The nimble might even score some bargain beachfront property in the Hamptons. 
     It’s been about a fortnight now since John Corzine’s MF Global fund went up in a vapor, including a reported $800 million or so (rumored to be actually more like $2+ billion) filched out of clients portfolios that cannot be accounted for – though there are additional rumors that it constituted a batch of collateral that was liquidated a micro-second after its arrival at JP Morgan, which had lent Corzine’s firm enough money to buy the rope that it hung itself with. Notice, the story has completely disappeared from the mainstream news media (while the Kardashians soldier on).
    Even poor Gerald Celente, chief of the Trends Journal forecasting group, arch-nemesis of “the white-shoe boys” got snookered in the action when MF Global somehow ended up with custodial care of the Gold ETFs Gerald was collecting and his shit just vanished! I heard him fulminating over it on a podcast and he is not somebody I’d want to be on the bad side of. Up until now, Celente was only commenting on the prospects for revolution in the streets. Now, I daresay, he’ll be out in front leading it (or perhaps rappelling down Jamie Dimon’s security wall with a straight razor clenched in his teeth).
     The MF Global case has fast-tracked the evaporation of trust in all the places, large and small, where American One-percenters stash their cash. The redemption orders must be flying through their transoms like radioactive black swans. By lunchtime tomorrow this could include all the TBTF banks. That’s what the pundits mean by “contagion.” Where will that money go now (if they can get it out)?
     I don’t see where else it can go now except to shiny yellow and white metal, and maybe some oil positions. But the mechanisms of the precious metals trade have also been monkeyed with, and you’d best be careful where you place your order. As for oil, if lending really does seize-up, then letters-of-credit will not be issued and tankers will not be moving any product. More to the point, the global revolving debt system has depended on colossal transfers of ultra-short-term borrowed money. If short-term borrowing is simply unavailable, things could go south very quickly – and by that I mean food stops arriving at the supermarkets, which hold just a three-day supply. Wouldn’t that make for an interesting Thanksgiving?
     I have admittedly painted an extreme picture this week. But this week presents the most extreme convergence of events the world has seen since September of 2008, and perhaps a good bit worse.

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James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

956 Responses to “The Blue Bus Is Calling Us”

  1. Abrey November 20, 2011 at 8:35 pm #

    Dear Jim:
    Another incisive commentary, as usual. It makes me wonder whether there is ‘any place left to run’; and who on earth would want to be an ‘investor’ anymore, if investing is rigged against you?
    Likely the best protection for us now, is for ordinary citizens to band together to support each other.
    Oh, and if Pour Politicians would start jailing their Banker Buddies, that would be a nice Bonus, so to speak. But I’m not holding my breath.
    Abrey

  2. rippedthunder November 20, 2011 at 8:55 pm #

    Hey J, I see yer post is early. Blue bus indeed. This is the End!
    This is the end
    Beautiful friend
    This is the end
    My only friend, the end
    Of our elaborate plans, the end
    Of everything that stands, the end
    No safety or surprise, the end
    I’ll never look into your eyes…again
    Can you picture what will be
    So limitless and free
    Desperately in need…of some…stranger’s hand
    In a…desperate land
    Lost in a Roman…wilderness of pain
    And all the children are insane
    All the children are insane
    Waiting for the summer rain, yeah
    There’s danger on the edge of town
    Ride the King’s highway, baby
    Weird scenes inside the gold mine
    Ride the highway west, baby
    Ride the snake, ride the snake
    To the lake, the ancient lake, baby
    The snake is long, seven miles
    Ride the snake…he’s old, and his skin is cold
    The west is the best
    The west is the best
    Get here, and we’ll do the rest
    The blue bus is callin’ us
    The blue bus is callin’ us
    Driver, where you taken’ us
    The killer awoke before dawn, he put his boots on
    He took a face from the ancient gallery
    And he walked on down the hall
    He went into the room where his sister lived, and…then he
    Paid a visit to his brother, and then he
    He walked on down the hall, and
    And he came to a door…and he looked inside
    Father, yes son, I want to kill you
    Mother…I want to…fuck you
    C’mon baby, take a chance with us
    C’mon baby, take a chance with us
    C’mon baby, take a chance with us
    And meet me at the back of the blue bus
    Doin’ a blue rock
    On a blue bus
    Doin’ a blue rock
    C’mon, yeah
    Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill
    This is the end
    Beautiful friend
    This is the end
    My only friend, the end
    It hurts to set you free
    But you’ll never follow me
    The end of laughter and soft lies
    The end of nights we tried to die
    This is the end

  3. rippedthunder November 20, 2011 at 8:56 pm #

    listen hear:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoBFhdeR9PE

  4. rippedthunder November 20, 2011 at 9:03 pm #

    Perhaps that link was short . Sorry. here is a longer version.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGmAmJFUvzM

  5. asoka. November 20, 2011 at 9:44 pm #

    things could go south very quickly – and by that I mean food stops arriving at the supermarkets, which hold just a three-day supply. Wouldn’t that make for an interesting Thanksgiving?

    Three days until we have empty store shelves is a time-specific prediction, one that we can test by going into a grocery store this coming weekend. We can look for ourselves to see whether this coming week is the week TSHTF.
    I’m going out on a limb and say it won’t be any different this coming week than any of the last 250 weeks of CFN’s dire predictions (war with Iran, 4,000 DOW, etc.), which have not come true.

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  6. metuselah November 20, 2011 at 10:00 pm #

    I have learned over the last week that MF Global is almost certainly the mere tip of the iceberg. There is massive industry-wide exposure to European sovereign junk debt. While other firms may not be as heavily leveraged as Corzine had MFG leveraged, and it is now thought that MFG’s leverage may have been in excess of 100:1, they are still suicidally leveraged and will likely stand massive, unmeetable collateral calls in the coming days and weeks as Europe inevitably collapses. I now suspect that the reason the Chicago Mercantile Exchange did not immediately step in to backstop the MFG implosion was because they knew and know that if they backstopped MFG, they would then be expected to backstop all of the other firms in the system when the failures began to cascade – and there simply isn’t that much money in the entire system. In short, the problem is a SYSTEMIC problem, not merely isolated to one firm.
    .
    .
    http://market-ticker.org/post=197702
    ==
    As I said to you in the past, things will unfold slowly until they don’t. We are coming to the part where they don’t.

  7. Widespreadpanic7 November 20, 2011 at 10:19 pm #

    And on the other hand, Jim, it was SRO at the local shopping mall mall this weekend, restaurants had lines to get in, and grocery stores had to add extra staff and hours.
    We may be f—–d, but we don’t know it yet.
    –WSP7

  8. malthus November 20, 2011 at 10:35 pm #

    Yep, fire sign theater was right so many years ago. We are all bozo’s on this bus. Be it blue, red, white, or green and its name is no doubt “Further.” It is really to bad that with all the millions of years of human evolution things are going to end very very badly. At least for those of us that do not believe in the rapture.

  9. anti soak November 20, 2011 at 11:01 pm #

    Now if they would ‘stop lovin Sarah’ as well!!!
    Some NASCAR fans boo Michelle Obama
    Politico (blog) – 3 hours ago
    First lady Michelle Obama didn’t receive the warmest welcome at NASCAR’s Sprint Cup finale in Florida on Sunday. Amid cheers, there was some loud booin……………………..

  10. anti soak November 20, 2011 at 11:03 pm #

    JIM……..
    Elaine Supkis was down, maybe even mocking GC
    in her Blog last week!!!
    Yes ‘ Gerald Celente, chief of the Trends Journal forecasting group, arch-nemesis of “the white-shoe boys” got snookered’

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  11. Nathan November 20, 2011 at 11:27 pm #

    Not sure if it’s made news in the US, but Obama made his first visit to the far-flung and sunny shores of Australia last week. He timed his visit to coincide with the 60th anniversary of the ANZUS Treaty. And sure enough, he travelled to Darwin, a small town at the top end of the Northern Territory (where the Crocodile Dundee films were set) to announce plans for a permenant US military presence of 2500 US Marines.
    I don’t want your Jarheads over here thanks! How can the US afford to keep being the world’s police? Being a global stickybeak and other-peoples-business-minder is an extremely expensive hobby. Pack up and go home fellas.

  12. asoka. November 20, 2011 at 11:29 pm #

    Metuselah said European collapse is imminent due to: “massive, unmeetable collateral calls in the coming days…
    ========
    I am loving these specific and measurable predictions, yours and JHK’s, on a time horizon of days.
    If the collapse does happen tomorrow, the people in the best position to survive will be those like Tripp who have developed a permacultural base.

  13. metuselah November 20, 2011 at 11:50 pm #

    Metuselah said European collapse is imminent due to: “massive, unmeetable collateral calls in the coming days…”
    ==
    I said no such thing. That was a direct quote and I provided you with a link to the source.
    Per usual, you are being deliberately daft. I really don’t know why I even bother with you. You are obviously a troll.

  14. Bustedcelt November 20, 2011 at 11:52 pm #

    Thank you for an entertaining few minutes. I’m reading Satyajit Das’ “Extreme Money: Masters of the Universe and the Cult of Risk”, and my progress through the book pretty well matches the denouement of your tale told on the way to the Blue Bus. Many are pretty sure this baby is going down, though how soon or how badly and thoroughly could be debated. It may be that the system is so systemically hidebound that it can’t work up a good once-and-for-all crash, but has to come down one shattered limb at a time.

  15. anti soak November 21, 2011 at 12:10 am #

    US Navy keeps seas safe-er so China can freely
    ship its goods.

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  16. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 12:16 am #

    Direct quote from Metuselah: “things will unfold slowly until they don’t. We are coming to the part where they don’t.”

  17. metuselah November 21, 2011 at 12:21 am #

    Good. So why did you feel that you had to so blatantly misrepresent my post?

  18. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 12:28 am #

    I apologize if you thought I “blatantly” misrepresented your post.
    What I am understanding from this week’s post, and from your response to it, is that tomorrow the markets collapse in Europe and they bring down our North American markets. Food deliveries to grocery stores will stop and in three days the shelves will begin to show emptiness… by Thanksgiving Day this will happen.
    I hope that is not misrepresentative.

  19. metuselah November 21, 2011 at 12:41 am #

    Apology not accepted. I don’t want your apology. It is as meaningless as the million other apologies you gave prior. What I want is, for you to stop with your idiotic nonsense. The scenario is VERY clear. When things will finally unravel, they will unravel very quickly. And it looks like the domino cascade might just be starting.

  20. anti soak November 21, 2011 at 1:01 am #

    Vlad:
    Go to Drudge and check this ‘womans’ Mugshots out!!!
    KELLI KENNEDY
    Associated Press
    US Video
    Advertisement
    Buy AP Photo Reprints
    MIAMI (AP) — A woman who wanted to work at a nightclub started searching for someone who could perform plastic surgery at a cheap price to give her a curvier body. Police say what she found was a woman posing as a doctor who filled her buttocks with cement, mineral oil and flat-tire sealant.
    The suspect – who police say was born a man and identifies as a woman – apparently performed the surgery on herself, and investigators say she may have victimized others. Oneal Ron Morris, 30, was arrested Friday after a year on the lam and has been charged with practicing medicine without a license with serious bodily injury.
    Police photos show Morris as a small-framed woman with bee-stung pouty lips………………….

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  21. anti soak November 21, 2011 at 1:08 am #

    Lone wolf, Jose Pimentel, 27, latest Muslim terrorist is an Immigrant!!!!!

  22. ctemple November 21, 2011 at 1:12 am #

    El sistema es roto, y quizas nosotros somos arruinado tambien. ¿Es posible que este gobierno pretendería que ellos tienen dinero por siempre?

  23. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 1:16 am #

    “it looks like the domino cascade might just be starting”
    =================
    That is what you have been saying for years, since before the 2007 domino cascade that wasn’t a domino cascade.
    2007 was a warning and money funds have built up extra capital as a buffer. Asset management executives also say that changes put in place by the Securities Exchange Commission at the start of 2010 already have made the funds much more robust than during the 2007 crisis, including tightening credit quality standards and imposing liquidity requirements.
    The money market funds with significant exposure to Europe will be covered.
    Then we will go on to the next proclamation from you that the situation is very CLEAR and things will be falling apart “in the coming days.”

  24. metuselah November 21, 2011 at 1:29 am #

    What the hell are you talking about!? I’ve been posting here for maybe a year or two. Never did I venture any opinion as to when I expected a collapse to happen. All I said is exactly what I said just above: Things will unfold slowly until they don’t. You want to continue with your idiocy and daftness, you do it without me.

  25. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 1:39 am #

    I believe you were posting under the handle “Mika” back then.
    From JHK’s post of May 5, 2008 called “The Risk Economy”:
    “…all this fucking nonsense will only make the eventual unwinding much worse. Personally, I doubt that it can go on more than a few more months.”
    That was over three years ago. The predictions of days become months, and the predictions of months become years… and the years become decades, but the weekly fear fest never stops.

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  26. bee cee November 21, 2011 at 3:05 am #

    What is this starting to look like? 45 years ago I worked for a farmer who reminisced about the 1930’s when most of his farm was cleared by people willimg to work for meals and shelter. Now rarely a week passes that I am not approached by someone willing to work on my farm for meals amd shelter.

  27. Vlad Krandz November 21, 2011 at 3:10 am #

    In Gurdjieff’s “Beelzebub’s Tales” he predicts the Russia would be destroyed by disordered thinking – Communism is nothing other than that. He also predicted that America would die because of bad food and weird sex. Surely injecting cement into your body to look more feminine qualifes – among many, many other things.

  28. Eleuthero November 21, 2011 at 3:33 am #

    Asoka said:
    From JHK’s post of May 5, 2008 called “The Risk Economy”:
    “…all this fucking nonsense will only make the eventual unwinding much worse. Personally, I doubt that it can go on more than a few more months.”
    *************************************************************
    Oh, Asoka!!! Who cares about JHK’s numeric predictions? Has he or has he NOT been generally absolutely correct about the general direction of the economy? On May 5, 2008, the Dow was at 13K!!! By the reckoning of us NON-nitpickers, JHK’s
    prediction was SENSATIONAL. It fell, in less than a year to HALF
    that value. JHK should be running a fucking MUTUAL FUND!!!
    How could anyone have predicted the precise nature of “kick the can down the road” stopgap measures that would be implemented to hold this shit together IN APPEARANCE ONLY for some unspecified number of additional years?? You must have written 8-10 posts critiquing his forecasting record. Even today as the market stands at 11.8K, if you had avoided Wall Street altogether and earned a ONE percent interest rate (I got 4% in 2008) for three years, your return from May 5, 2008 would be +3.5% and NOT -10% which you would have gotten by believing in stay-the-course “market mavens”.
    It is an IRREFUTABLE TRUTH that the pessimists who’ve avoided Wall Street or even shorted it, even after a recent HUGE rally, would be AT LEAST 13.5% ahead of the stay-the-course folks. You have to measure JHK’s pessimism against a reasonable baseline … like OTHER dopey financiers.
    I don’t take Jim, or anybody else, seriously as regards TIMING of moves. It’s the GENERAL ECONOMIC DIRECTION, which plays out over LONG periods of time due to Fed meddling, that is nearly the SOLE determinant of final results. And I think I’ve proven above that you cannot make a cogent argument that market optimists would have done better from that 5/5/2008 date than market pessimists like Jim.
    And, please, don’t argue that if someone had made X move on Y date they’d have “outperformed”. I started with the date YOU gave and simply assumed “hold” versus “sell”. The pessimists have been winning since 2000 and I think they’re going to keep winning these arguments through brute force of numbers … UNTIL OUR REPUBLIC IS DISSOLVED INTO MARTIAL LAW.
    E.

  29. Eleuthero November 21, 2011 at 3:38 am #

    Vlad said:
    Surely injecting cement into your body to look more feminine qualifes – among many, many other things.
    *************************************************************
    I’m surprised that in this day and age of Viagra that men haven’t summoned the services of cosmetic surgeons to get cement injected into their penis. 🙂 🙂
    I just had to inject a small bit of levity. Carry on.
    E.

  30. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 3:55 am #

    E. said: “How could anyone have predicted the precise nature of “kick the can down the road” stopgap measures …”
    —————-
    They couldn’t and that is exactly my point. We might go another 15 or 20 or 60 years on stopgap measures, as unexpectedly as we have lasted over the last 3 years.
    BTW, when you say the DOW was at 13,000 … that was the year JHK was predicting it would drop to 4,000.
    As far as making 8-10 posts about predictions that did not pan out. I have not responded to a tenth of the failed predictions made week after week after week.

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  31. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 3:57 am #

    PS, as long as people insist on using numbers and time horizons, I am going to continue to point out the failed numbers. Numbers mean something and should not be used carelessly.

  32. andrei_timoshenko November 21, 2011 at 4:49 am #

    The thing about debt is that the creditors and the debtors must balance out – it is impossible for everyone to be in debt. Indeed, there is definitely plenty of ‘wealth’ (let’s define this as broadly as possible as “tools which can be used to increase one’s ability to pursue one’s goals, whatever those goals may be”) out there – London of today, say, is clearly not 15th Century London, which itself was more than just 100,000 people squatting naked in a field.
    The question, therefore, is who *owns* what, and who *owes* what to whom. Consider some hypotheticals. If it was simply decided tomorrow that all debt (and debt-like obligations) worldwide were simply cancelled, who would be better off? Who would be worse off?

  33. Eleuthero November 21, 2011 at 5:26 am #

    Asoka said:
    They couldn’t and that is exactly my point. We might go another 15 or 20 or 60 years on stopgap measures, as unexpectedly as we have lasted over the last 3 years.
    ****************************************************************
    You will find out very soon that it won’t “go another 15 or 20 or 60 years”. The problem is that ALL stopgap measures have a natural termination point: 1) A country’s credit is so bad that it cannot borrow, 2) A country’s currency is so debased that it must drop out of international import/export markets because it’s impossible to price their exports or figure out how much to charge for exporting to them, 3) They default on their debt unless they engage in massive currency debasement, or 4) All creditors trust NO debtors and so all constructive economic activity ceases.
    There’s no magic “line in the sand” where this happens. It’s a “metastable state” where you have equilibrium and sanity one minute … and a military takeover of the government the next. Timing is the trickiest aspect of any forecasting, social or economic. However, all studies of economics show that people are MUCH better at LONG TERM FORECASTS than they are at SHORT TERM FORECASTS. In other words, we know DIRECTIONS pretty well but we don’t exactly know how long it’ll take to get there.
    We’ve gone pretty damned far downhill in just THREE years so I don’t think it takes the extrapolation skills of an actuary to figure out what happens in five or ten years … much less 20 or 60. You would have to extrapolate in MORE political rationality than exists in the world at present whereas most of us see less.
    Peak INTELLIGENCE is one of my pet “peak” observations.
    E.

  34. Eleuthero November 21, 2011 at 5:37 am #

    Asoka said:
    PS, as long as people insist on using numbers and time horizons, I am going to continue to point out the failed numbers. Numbers mean something and should not be used carelessly.
    ***************************************************************
    Yeah, like we needed to be told that your mission is to continue to be a pain in the ass. Why “announce” what we already know? What you fail to see is that the “when” part of a forecast is less crucial than the “what” part. If all your numbers show THAT your ship is going to hit an iceberg you must make evasive maneuvers now and not get too preoccupied with the “when” aspect, within reason. Moreover, we want to make the evasive maneuvers ONCE, not TEN times.
    Similarly, the USA’s economy is going to hit an iceberg and who cares WHEN?? All we know is that we’ve got to engage in fixes NOW while we have the time for “evasive maneuvers”. We want these “maneuvers” to work NOW and not need fifteen tweakings because it causes political stalemates every three months.
    Roubini’s massive infrastructure spending is the plan I like because then at least we have better utilities, urban plumbing, and decent railways to show for it. As things stand now, we have NOTHING to show for $2T of spending.
    E.

  35. kulturcritic* November 21, 2011 at 7:16 am #

    James,
    Looks like Obama is ready to take on China now, economically and militarily. It seems the hegemony just keeps pushing ahead, unmolested. Meanwhile, the OWSers are keeping up at least minimal pressure here on the homefront. To what avail, we are not certain.
    http://kulturcritic.wordpress.com/posts/the-civilization-of-our-discontent/

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  36. bubbleheadMarc November 21, 2011 at 7:44 am #

    And, the way to buy gold is you get cash, one hundred dollar bills, then go to the coin shop and buy a one ounce gold bullion coin, then hide it somewhere, or perhaps stash it in a safe deposit box at the bank if you are worried about burglars. Then that money no longer exists: you blew it gambling at the local Indian tribe’s casino.

  37. lbendet November 21, 2011 at 7:47 am #

    JHK,
    Quel surprise (ha) to see you posted last night.
    After seeing the 60 minutes profile of Christine Lagarde I was thinking along the same lines.
    This is a tsunami originating from our economic fraud, called free market with no regulations, hitting Europe and oh, my boomeranging back to us. I have only one word for you, KARMA and it’s just in time for the holiday season.
    In the meantime, just to pour more salt in the wounds, we have ideologues who haven’t recognized that the train has left the station and are still fighting for those billionaires to lower their taxes even more.
    They are fatally ill, but are unable to ascertain that they are about to die. Unbelievable even now fighting the fight of the 1980’s. The super-committee is an abject failure, which we knew it would be from the start.
    But as Kuturecritic just said, the war games continue. Will it be Iran? Will it be China? Stay tuned for the next episode of Pax Americana. Disaster Capitalism must march on…..

  38. ozone November 21, 2011 at 8:22 am #

    JHK sez:
    “Just to be plain here: nothing is working. The global system of accounting control fraud has completely unraveled. Nobody will lend money to anybody anymore because everybody suspects everybody else is lying about their ability to meet any obligation.”
    James,
    I’m “glad” you keep pointing this out to those who don’t want it to be pointed at!
    The erosion of trust in this Griftocracy could come to no good end, and we’re on an event horizon of it smacking us clean in the face, whether we want to peek through our fingers at it or not.
    When lying, cheating and stealing become an acceptable way to “get ahead” and “do business”, your society is well and truly fucked. …Especially if you desire to EXPORT this dream of never-ending free stolen cookies all over the fucking world! Goldman, curs-ed be thy name and all thy progeny…
    Saaaay, didn’t those hedge fund deals seem a tad too risk-free to be risk-free? There’s nothing us “little people” can do now but witness the devolution. As kindly Senor Fred ruminates: Whoever shall we find to transcribe the manuscripts? Technocrats and fascists have a tendency to “revise” and “redact” anything they get their hands onto and minds loosely wrapped around.
    Woe betide thee, Land of Grift and Dumbfuckery…

  39. Leibowitz Society November 21, 2011 at 8:23 am #

    This latest mess is probably the last real stopping point on the way down the toilet. From here on out, there is going to be less and less interest in new of collapsing finances, because it simply don’t matter to people who’re trying to find some sort of shelter in the coming storm of collape.
    Visit the Leibowitz Society at http://leibowitzsociety.blogspot.com/ for ideas and discussion about the coming collapse, how to prepare for it, and most of all, how to save our important knowledge before it gets lost in the chaos.

  40. ozone November 21, 2011 at 8:26 am #

    “We may be f—–d, but we don’t know it yet.”
    –WSP7
    Ha, good one!
    Rarely has a pithier observation been uttered!
    (This is why I’ve desperately been trying to get my “machine work” completed. I have “inklings”.)

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  41. ozone November 21, 2011 at 8:30 am #

    E.,
    Thanks for trying.
    I hear what you’re “on about”, though denial appears to be a powerful drug. ..Until the inevitable “downer”, that is.

  42. ozone November 21, 2011 at 8:31 am #

    Very telling, indeed.

  43. ozone November 21, 2011 at 8:35 am #

    Nathan,
    Sorry for the infestation.
    Perhaps a serious lack of funds will make it go away?
    Ps. Not letting them use any of YOUR money would be helpful.

  44. Solar Guy November 21, 2011 at 9:11 am #

    Saw the movie “MARGIN CALL” over the weekend.
    I keep imagining MADMAX with SOLAR PANELS
    Please post the link to enlighten me to FOOD STORAGE, I’m ready to stock up.
    Cheers Clusterfuckers.
    PUSH ON. DO GOOD. KEEP SMILING.

  45. Confusionism November 21, 2011 at 9:15 am #

    I’m sorry, Nathan, that you and your fellow Australians have to put up with our jarheads. I got nauseous when I heard about this. Just when we should be shutting down our overseas military bases we add another one to expand our hegemonic empire. I was wondering if you could comment on how the majority of Australians feel about this.

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  46. Neon Vincent November 21, 2011 at 9:22 am #

    You’re in a really goofy mood if you’re doing dialects and accents. As for me, I’ve been busy swatting Objectivist hornets, both on my blog and in real life.
    Crazy Eddie’s Motie News
    http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/

  47. Belisarius November 21, 2011 at 9:27 am #

    Jim
    A real (honest) economy would indeed implode, faced with the current reality. The world economic “leaders” resemble a gang of vampyres that have little fear of death, (being mostly there anyway). Even as “adequate feedings” are harder to acquire, they maintain their facade of life. True, they are doomed, they know it; and they won’t want us around much longer, after the blood snacks dry up.
    Perhaps they will try a purge of some kind that saves only their sheep?
    What seems more likely is a final orgy of feeding before the survivors are forced back to the crypts. Doesn’t look like that will be today, might be friday, might be next year, or longer.

  48. IxNoMor November 21, 2011 at 9:28 am #

    Market’s gunna crash in about 10 minutes, yet silver and gold are way down, and the 10 year UST is at 1.97%? All I can say, is WTF! How is that even remotely possible (ETF’s/commodity speculation/the almighty $dollar$ fed printing press)?
    It’s time for the fed to quit giving bogus 0% interest free money to the TBTF banksters. It’s also time for all the them (corporations/USgovt) to stop cooking their books – time to take all those toxic assets as losses finally. This house of cards reminds me of an old image from the Guinness Book of World Records, where coin stackers place hundreds of coins on top of one that is on its edge…
    As to the 1% no longer able to trust each other in terms of investment – all I can say is “Hah!” – what comes around, goes around. Apparently they aren’t as immune as they thought, in their MegaMansions, yachts and luxury vehicles…

  49. Belisarius November 21, 2011 at 9:39 am #

    Looks like Obama is ready to take on China now, economically and militarily.
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    Yes a fake or real war with China could take out scads of “usless eaters” and justify a police state for the remainder. Not sure that’s the plan, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

  50. Tangurena November 21, 2011 at 9:41 am #

    Corzine will walk away scot-free. When has any of the upper mismanagement of Goldman Sachs ever been prosecuted? His tight relationship with the DNC will also ensure that Obama will pardon the guy if any prosecutions start.

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  51. charliefoxtrot November 21, 2011 at 9:47 am #

    another good one E; i especially like “peak intelligence”…

  52. Drew Keeling November 21, 2011 at 9:55 am #

    The Eurozone could lean on the ECB to buy up “PIGS” sovereign debt using expansive monetary policy. The Fed did this, in effect starting in late 2008 and it has staved off collapse and bought time for more fundamental reform, though that time had been mostly squandered. But, the Eurozone isn’t likely to do so until it is either too late, or almost too late. And the reforms, if ever adopted, would need to be fairly drastic to be sustainable. See Krugman in today’s NY Times.

  53. Nastarana November 21, 2011 at 10:06 am #

    I think JK is still suffering from a amssive case of cognitive dissonance, if that is the correct term.
    His comments are spot on about things that he has researched and understands, such as land use and and architecture. However, even if he does now live in Saratoga, not exactly small town, as it is a suburb of Albany, he is still a high urbanite internationalist at heart. He simply cannot bring himself to admit that all us provincial white sox wearing do-it-yourselfers were right all along, and his fun, intersting, cosmopolitan internationalist buddies were wrong.
    JK seems to me not to understand the fact that when things get seriously out of hand, such as happened at UCDavis, the cosmopolitans, like the UCD Chancellor, haven’t the faintest idea what to do about it. Any of us nobodies out here could have told her: Fire the dope with the spray can. Now. Tell his union rep you will see him/her in court, but get out of your office because you have serious work to do. Take the school’s money out of B of A which is due to fail pretty soon anyway. Put money in local banks, which gets you some local support, something you might soon be needing. Designate an area for protest, and designate a representative to coordinate with people excercising their First Amendment Rights about things like trash collection and sanitation.
    I doubt that grocery stores will be empty before Thanksgiving, but I also suspect that if you have extra money, agribiz and retail grocery chains is not a very good place to put it.
    I have no fears, or not too many, about grocery shelves being empty, because, like a lot of rural raised types, I have a garden; there is food in the freezer; and I belong to a buying club which buys directly from local farmers.

  54. K November 21, 2011 at 10:06 am #

    Gee, I remember the name of the VD free clinic back in my bad old college days was “Blue Bus”.
    http://www.Thesisa.org/

  55. tpverde November 21, 2011 at 10:07 am #

    As someone who thought peak oil doom was rather imminent, I stand corrected and urge all to beware a bit of projecting our sense that things are terribly wrong onto the workings of a very complex world.
    However, the timeline may be wrong for Jim, as it was for the “Limits to Growth” people, but in the grand scheme of things, 10-20 years is a blip in the downfall of an empire.
    what I think is hard to factor in, be it energy analysis, financial analysis, climate analysis, is the “chaos factor”, something that I see first hand in some of the neighboring countries in Central America where I live…especially in the larger cities.
    There is no metric to accurately document–or predict– what is occurring due to failed states–Haiti comes to mind, the massive dislocations caused by “free-trade” treaties, the narco/political/economic nexus, in addition to the blindness and foot dragging of entrenched elites as every passing day cries out louder for a new “development” paradigm.
    Taking into account many of Jim’s observations in The Long Emergency, I tried to go very local, while paying attention to the global trends, as sketched out in this article for the Oil Drum:
    http://campfire.theoildrum.com/node/5714
    Best to all in these interesting times.

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  56. Celt November 21, 2011 at 10:09 am #

    I’d be interested to hear JHK’s views on this article by Edward Luce in the Financial Times.
    Entitled “America is entering a new age of plenty,” it sounds like fracking to me.
    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/a307107c-1364-11e1-9562-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1eIJsN1UD

  57. loveday November 21, 2011 at 10:09 am #

    Hi Jim
    Loooved your post today, the European spectacle just gets better and better. Particularly with that trader Alessio running around saying he thinks things will collapse by January. Remember Alessio? He’s the one that came right out and said Goldman runs the world, personally I am surprised Alessio wasn’t overcome with “suicidal ideation”. I am also really looking forward to watching Nigel Farage administer another searing tongue lashing to the EU miscreants right out in public. The mugs of those Eurocrats after Nigel gets through with them look like pickpockets who have been caught with their hand in everyone’s pocket, come to think of it, that is exactly what has happened.
    Well, all the argument here about time lines is pretty fruitless. The old economic saying ” debts that can’t be paid, won’t be paid”, witness Greece, will settle all arguments. I just think we are in for many thrills, chills and screams before we get to the very end. So, prepare as much as you can, after all not all of us can afford to run away to a little hidey-hole in the hills, and then just sit back and watch the show. It is going to be a BLOCKBUSTER !
    loveday
    just sit back and watch the show. It is going to be a blockbuster!

  58. ozone November 21, 2011 at 10:12 am #

    “The ECB, read: Germany, doesn’t have the means and wherewithal to save the entire Eurozone. It could opt to put itself on the hook for $2-3 trillion, just to keep up appearances for another year or so -if that long-, but after that, countries and banks would be trick-and/or-treating at the doorsteps in Berlin and Frankfurt anyway.” -AE
    This can-kicking is exactly the wrong approach to a “fix”, so we can infer that it’s exactly what will be implemented.
    The final upshot will be a fire-sale of assets for pennies (or ha’pennies) on the dollar (which would be the desired “result”).
    Here ya go. (Research the “cred” of the various folks quoted, in case you may think it all a tissue of lies.)
    http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2011/11/november-20-2011-why-germany-is-right.html

  59. 3rd Generation November 21, 2011 at 10:15 am #

    “Elaine Supkis was down, maybe even mocking GC
    in her Blog last week!!!
    Yes ‘ Gerald Celente, chief of the Trends Journal forecasting group, arch-nemesis of “the white-shoe boys” got snookered'”
    Mr. Celente ‘got snookered’? If you bother to learn the facts, he had been doing business with the Lynn Waldoch firm for years without a problem – ever, only to discover that LW was somehow swindled into the disgraced and fraudulent Corzine MF Global group. I don’t think ‘snookered’, as it implicates, being dumb or greedy or both is the correct semantic. Being caught in the middle and fucked over by an alleged, (yet to be proven-it’s early yet)criminal enterprise run by another former Goldman Sachs disgusting pigfucker is more accurate.
    You would do well reading the Trends Journal. Mr. Celente is neither dumb or greedy that’s for sure. Nest time you see him in the street, why not TELL HIM how he ‘got snookered’? Have your emergency room coverage paid up in full.
    Elaine Supkis who?
    Happy Thanksgiving Rubes. Do YOU know who ‘owns’ YOUR bank? Didn’t think so. You’re Next for fleecing. Think what happens to the Thanksgiving turkey. That’s what’s coming to you.
    Arbeit Macht Frei

  60. Bill Simpson November 21, 2011 at 10:18 am #

    You thinkers on this site think Jim is pissed off now, wait until he reads the article on http://www.bloomberg.com Monday about the billionaires not paying their income tax, and getting away with paying 50 cents on the dollar owed IF they get caught.

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  61. Hammering Truth November 21, 2011 at 10:19 am #

    MF Global stole from it’s investor’s accounts. Guess who’s holding the loot? http://www.youtube.com/user/HammeringTruth#p/u/0/HrVAa4Q0ZyY

  62. metuselah November 21, 2011 at 10:21 am #

    just sit back and watch the show. It is going to be a blockbuster!
    ==
    Bah! Another limp dick who “likes to watch” because that’s all he can do. What a nation of losers you are.

  63. bossier22 November 21, 2011 at 10:24 am #

    We can’t continue to be the world cop. We are neglecting security concerns within our own border. plus we don’t have the money.
    Pat Buchanan’s new book advocates closing the majority of US overseas bases. He also is for bring troops home from Japan, Korea, the middle east and Europe. Redeploying them on our own southern border.
    But if I were Australian, a few jarheads and close alliance with the US would be preferable to Chinese troops there of their own volition. Don’t think it couldn’t happen.

  64. K November 21, 2011 at 10:33 am #

    James: Perhaps you ought to consider limiting comments to 140 characters like Twitter so that we won’t be obliged to slog through quite so much to get to the lucid comments?
    http://www.Thesisa.org/

  65. Ixnei November 21, 2011 at 10:39 am #

    I just have to add this, as I am sickened by the 0.1% savings account rates available to clients now (why would *investment* [financial?] banks want to borrow money from clients, when they can get 0% interest rate from the fed printing press, or naked short it for free millisecond-style?). Aside – I remember my economics 201 class teaching me something about savings rates causally linked to inflation rates – how are those annual health insurance/college tuition hikes treating you (what inflation)? All of my food and utility costs have been on the rise for the past decade, on the order of 5% or so per year (oh yeah, that’s why they call it *ADJUSTED* inflation rate – have to remove the “noise” caused by food/energy). OK, just tell me to “babble on, moron!” (I’m getting to my point…)
    I remember daze gone by – the 70’s, 80’s, early 90’s, when people were taught the virtues of saving money. People opened savings accounts as children, and earned at least 2-3% annually. These poor kids today – what are they taught? To go as deeply into debt as possible, via credit card/loan sharks? To gamble on the fraudulent market, where 70% of the trades consist of TBTF microsecond naked-short trades?

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  66. Smokyjoe November 21, 2011 at 10:41 am #

    Pathetic, really. The financial system is a handy illusion. It’s failing as the illusions that underlie it get revealed for what they are.
    But it sure has been handy.
    On the other hand, the US Congress is based upon an illusion of governance that has failed us since at least the Reagan Era, with the re-emergence of 1840s-style partisan lunacy. That all cloaks the pocket-stuffing of men and women of both parties with funds from corporations and lobbyists.
    Our illusion of governance is decidedly not handy, and I’ll be glad to see it go. Makes one wish for angry and bipartisan mobs storming the Capitol when the Super Committee invariably fails and markets tank…the DOW is down more than 230 points as I write this: just another normal day on Wall Street since 2008.

  67. Boris November 21, 2011 at 10:42 am #

    Gerald Celente “rappelling down Jamie Dimon’s security wall with a straight razor clenched in his teeth” is a funny image. Thanks again for the infotainment.

  68. dale November 21, 2011 at 10:42 am #

    The scenario is VERY clear. When things will finally unravel, they will unravel very quickly. And it looks like the domino cascade might just be starting.
    —————————————–
    Uh huh…..well, don’t be too surprised if it’s still “unraveling” twenty years from now.

  69. charliefoxtrot November 21, 2011 at 10:44 am #

    remember the ali g show? sasha cohen got him to say we went to war over ‘blt’s…and at the end of the interview made him say, “i be pat buchanan, and i be knowin’ nothin’ about nothin’ “…really, look it up…

  70. Kenny November 21, 2011 at 10:50 am #

    Eleuthero, you’re absolutely right, and I thank you for pointing it out. Reading commentary on various articles makes it clear to me that most people get lost in the details and never see the big picture. Like well trained botanists in a forest, they are proud that they know the genus and species of every plant. They too often are unaware that they are in a forest or that a forest even exists. Warnings of an approaching forest fire go unheeded since they don’t know what a forest is. Instead, they point out that fire is not possible based on moisture readings taken by “experts” on fallen leaf samples.
    I may be a simpleton, but I know that corn begets only more corn, and corruption will not produce a crop of prosperity or good will. I need no numbers or specifics to know what to do. Focus on details usually points to denial or stupidity, and what’s the difference?

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  71. Nickelthrower November 21, 2011 at 11:03 am #

    Greetings,
    I would like to comment on all the other commentators that argue about “time” and “dominoes” and predictions.
    I think that most of you just do not understand the nature of a Black Swan event. I’ll try to explain.
    Lets say that a guy named Bill is diagnosed with diabetes – is that a Black Swan event? No, diabetes is fairly common and anyone looking at Bill’s history and diet could probably predict diabetes in his future.
    What if his diabetes leads to the loss of Bill’s legs? Is that a Black Swan event? No. Again, the loss of one’s legs, while horrible, can happen to someone with diabetes.
    Poor Bill. He is only 45 years old and has no legs and is confined to a motorized chair. He has a terrible chronic illness that requires the use of daily medical intervention to survive.
    One night a faulty gas main breaks and Bill’s house catches on fire. Everyone with legs and not weakened by diabetes escapes but not Bill. Bill is thus killed by a Black Swan event.
    Kunstler is not writing about the event that will take us down as it is impossible to predict. Kunstler, and this blog specifically, talk about how we’ve weakened ourselves (just like Bill) and how that makes us more at risk to the Black Swans that are circling on the horizon.
    When the event does come it will be something that no one has prepared for.

  72. bailey November 21, 2011 at 11:06 am #

    I love Gerald Celente, this Italian American and his “white shoe boys”, he’s well aware Italy’s allegedly corrupt ways have nothin on Wall Street. Nothin….

  73. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 11:11 am #

    Hey, Asoka.
    Thanks for taking the dissenting position here on this blog. I too can’t help but recognize the constant number of dire predictions that fail to reach the extreme outcomes imagined. But I also notice that what is predicted usually reflects the truth of the situation. So I guess what I’m asking, really, is how do “they” get away with kicking the can down the road so often? I think I’ve heard you describe these phenomena as a “negative feedback loop.” Does this mean that once we reach the threshold, the collapse will be as devastating as the fear mongering suggests?
    I appreciate skepticism and any other insights to be offered, so keep them coming!
    Cheers.

  74. loveday November 21, 2011 at 11:17 am #

    I know…. I can clearly see Gerald and his straight razor, scaling the wall mumbling ” white shoe boy fucked with the wrong guy”. Absolutely priceless!! I will still be chuckling over this for awhile.
    Methusaleh, lighten up, have a chuckle while we can, things will get real serious soon enough.
    loveday

  75. Loveandlight November 21, 2011 at 11:19 am #

    Funny you should mention gold, it’s taking quite a nosedive in the markets as I type this comment. I should also mention that while outfits such as BullionVault and Goldmoney are honest and reputable in and of themselves (as far as we know, anyway), one should still be careful of putting the bulk of one’s money into gold through these outfits. If gold is in a bubble, which there is reason to believe it is, the gold one owns through these outfits must be sold to be converted back into cash should the bubble (assuming it is indeed a bubble) pop, and such a market in gold would be a buyer’s market to the max.

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  76. Lizzy November 21, 2011 at 11:20 am #

    I have a friend who works in the City in London who is very well informed. He told me that during the 2008 credit crunch, Tesco, a huge supermarket chain here, came to within 12 hours of running out of cash and not being able to stock its shelves. He also told me that he and his colleagues withdrew all their money – millions, no doubt, he’s loaded – in cash, and many bought dwellings with moats and weaponry. But it all turned out all right, that time.

  77. metuselah November 21, 2011 at 11:22 am #

    It’s not a black swan that will sink the fascist US petrodollar empire, it’s a the famous butterfly effect. Only it’s not a butterfly this time around, it is a flock of giant pterosaurs coming your way, called karma.

  78. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 11:25 am #

    That’s some funny stuff. Wish I had a moat with crocodiles and such.

  79. ccm989 November 21, 2011 at 11:29 am #

    Two things are baffling me (and perhaps I am not alone). First, where did all that money go? Corzine lost $2 billion where – who’s got it? During the Iraq war, pallets of cash ($8.8 billion) vanished without a trace. Somewhere there are unaccountable trillions, all of it missing from various investments from 401K funds that collapsed in 2008 to the value of housings (much more fiat). Is this even real money? The interest on those retirement accounts vanished with a touch of a keystroke, the value on housing was never real in the first place. Or is all this loot (this massive, uncountable, unaccounted loot) actually hidden in a deep, underground vault somewhere in a tax-free island? Nothing is working and no one is held accountable. Ever. Even when caught red-handed.
    Secondly, why is the US putting a military base in Australia? Australians strike me as being tough enough and organized enough to defend themselves and their allies on their own territory. Why are our soldiers being sent there? To keep unemployment from going up? There is plenty of work to do here. Security firms everywhere are hiring former military men to protect the paranoid uber rich from dangerous OWSers (nerdy college kids, vegetarian hippies and 84 yr. old grannies). The uber rich want to know how much money they should keep in gold and if a submarine can be kept on hand to help them escape when the government collapses. I kid you not. Here is the NYT link — http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/19/business/protests-are-a-payday-for-security-firms.html?adxnnl=1&ref=businessspecial3&adxnnlx=1321891543-YufwOdnih3EvyLmO/RHFQQ

  80. bossier22 November 21, 2011 at 11:32 am #

    None of us know nuthin bout nuthin including me. So I don’t know what Pat B. knows. But his book is a good read, and has some sensible proposals. IMHO.

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  81. anti soak November 21, 2011 at 11:32 am #

    ‘Elaine Supkis who?’
    Culture of life News/ Blog
    Good blog, She also lives in upstate NY and watches the Banksters and their friends at the NY Times with a careful eye.
    Vlad….did you see the trannies pictures? with the hude butt? Drudge.

  82. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 11:34 am #

    Metuselah,
    why do you think it is that no one has been able to pinpoint the doom date with precision?
    Anyhow, I check out stuff from Michael C Ruppert now and again, and I listened to him argue in his defense that someone calculated that better than 80% of his forecasts were accurate. What huge emotional toll guys like Mr. Kunstler and Mr. Ruppert must pay for taking the positions they do.
    I guess even for falling short with their claims, they’re more courageous than most.

  83. IxNoMor November 21, 2011 at 11:34 am #

    “how do “they” get away with kicking the can down the road so often? I think I’ve heard you describe these phenomena as a “negative feedback loop.””
    Actually, it is a positive feedback loop. This can be seen/measured, as the “bailouts” become more and more frequent, and consist of larger and larger quantities. And, the debt grows larger and larger, and the printing presses produce ever more inflated *MAGIKAL* money-paperz.
    A negative feedback loop is when something goes too high, then it is regulated back down. A positive feedback loop produces exponential growth (until it hits the “cliff”).

  84. dale November 21, 2011 at 11:38 am #

    I need no numbers or specifics to know what to do. Focus on details usually points to denial or stupidity, and what’s the difference?
    ————————————–
    While the overall thrust of your post is not riduclous, the above statement is the sort of muddled thinking that leads people to ignore reality. Once you can disregard the “details” with impunity, then you are operating the zone of pure belief. Good luck with that.

  85. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 11:38 am #

    I see Ix,
    thanks for the clarification.
    I guess my next questions should be, then, don’t these leaders have any incentive for seeing the writing on the wall. Is there not a shred of decency to be found? Are there any genuine efforts to right the wrongs in the socioeconomic system?

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  86. John M DC November 21, 2011 at 11:39 am #

    “This week presents the most extreme convergence of events the world has seen since September of 2008, and perhaps a good bit worse.”
    I think you are right and I think it is going to be a bit worse. We are all standing beneath a tree that is falling on us. But we just stare at it cause we don’t have a clue what to do.

  87. IxNoMor November 21, 2011 at 11:40 am #

    “many bought dwellings with moats and weaponry.”
    OMFG, LULZ!!! That is *priceless*!!! I hope they stocked the moats with alligators (or crocodiles)! I *ASS-U-ME* they had some acreage inside the moat for crops/livestock?!…

  88. anti soak November 21, 2011 at 11:43 am #

    Did you folks see the guy with the ‘Tame, pet’ Hippo was killed by the hippo?
    Theres video of him playing with it and feeding it apples prior to it going wild.

  89. charliefoxtrot November 21, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    IM not so HO, buchanan is a political whore who will say anything you want to hear, for a buck; which i think was ali g s point…seriously, look it up and watch the episode

  90. Lizzy November 21, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    I know – bizarre. And over here buying weapons is incredibly extreme as well. They were probably American fund managers who thought it was normal…

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  91. Buck Stud November 21, 2011 at 11:48 am #

    The can is not only ‘kicked down the road’ by TPTB; it’s kicked by those invested in this ecosystem of an economy that we have. Which is just about everyone, including JHK – who will buy his books if a collapse occurs? Your average American home owner doesn’t want his house value to plummet; the in-debt college student covets a good old fashioned job after graduation; the Social Security recipient wants to find that check in the mailbox each and every month; the artists wants patrons that are willing and able to buy their work.
    There is a collective psychic/emotional/philosophical/political/economic investment in things working out. A staggering amount of invested momentum that transcends the can kicking scenario of a few elites pulling levers behind the curtain.
    In reality, the only reason any cans get kicked down the road is because the majority covets the continuation of the status-quo.

  92. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 11:52 am #

    I thought about buying guns, but started to teach myself to garden instead. Truth is, if TSHTF to the degree of firefights and small skirmishes, I’m completely unprepared. What a thought.

  93. charliefoxtrot November 21, 2011 at 11:55 am #

    ix, will you please satisfy a minor point of curiosity: wtf is ‘lulz’? i ve been unable to figure it from context…preesh…

  94. horseoutside November 21, 2011 at 11:56 am #

    Any suggestion that Gideon Osborne isnt a top notch Economist is bang out of order. His bankers are Hoares, for goodness sakes. This? man is a member of the Bullingdon Club in good standing, and briefly? worked in Selfridges department store, folding towels, before becoming UK chancer-lore in his early 30’s.?
    His copy of Economics for Dummies is one of the most well thumbed in Britain, and I am sure that he will be balls deep into the economy, driving ever more deeply into recession, until? such time as he is removed from this orifice.

  95. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 11:56 am #

    So Buck,
    does this mean it’ll take a ground zero type calamity to instigate the type of deep changes necessary? Or, will us lemmings continue marching to the cliff-side?

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  96. Lizzy November 21, 2011 at 12:02 pm #

    It was even worse: he said they bought castles, not dwellings (that was my little editing). I mean, how many castles with moats are there? And how many for sale? But that’s what he said.

  97. Loveandlight November 21, 2011 at 12:02 pm #

    I believe that “lulz” is the plural of “LOL” in contemporary Internet vernacular.

  98. metuselah November 21, 2011 at 12:05 pm #

    It’s not a one day event. It is a process of cascading events. These cascading events feed on themselves until eventually the activation energy needed for the reaction to occur is overcome. Every day that passes the number cascading events increases, that is undeniable. In my opinion, the catalyst for the reaction is the global awareness to the evil that is the US/NATO/Vatican/Islamo fascist alliance. Once that awareness and knowledge is out, it is out. You cannot bring it back in. I said it many times before, the world will vomit the blue-eyed devil dogs out of existence.

  99. k-dog November 21, 2011 at 12:06 pm #

    “Citing the strategic importance of the U.S.-China relationship, in November 2009, President Barack Obama announced the “100,000 Strong” initiative, a national effort designed to increase dramatically the number and diversify the composition of American students studying in China. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton officially launched the initiative in May 2010 in Beijing. The Chinese government strongly supports the initiative and has already committed 10,000 “Bridge Scholarships” for American students to study in China.”
    Now how is sending HOSTAGES to china a good thing? Seems to me that it weakens national security.
    Mr. can’t wait to get my picture on a coin also seems to have no issue being a Boeing salesman on his recent far east trip. Conflict of interest apparently produces no conflict. A president of corporations and the global elite he’s not going to get tough on China. He’s going to get tough on you instead and with so many not paying attention to what is going on he’s going to keep on doing it for four more years.
    You’ll be broke without a job but rich kids will soon be enjoying spring break in Shanghai.
    The documentary “Lifting the Veil” can still be found online. If you want to understand Obama and the OWS movement watching this documentary would be a very good place to start.

  100. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 12:09 pm #

    As I write, Egyptian revolutionary fires burn brighter.
    I’m wondering if we are certain to see an American Spring in just a few months? Perhaps this IS the culmination of events folks like JHK have been writing about for so long. The positive feedback loop realized?

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  101. charliefoxtrot November 21, 2011 at 12:17 pm #

    what it s about is an overt move to try to show china that we (US) are in the neighborhood…surely you ve heard of the rise of the chinese military presence, presumably in preparation for claiming oil, natural gas, control of shipping lanes and resupply bases on the area islands…can t remember the name of it, but US navy recently announced “exercises” on an island of one of our ‘allies’ that is very near to one that is disputed by viet nam, i believe, and mainland china…how the report is worded is something like, china should not be “worried” by our beach landing simulations; we re not preparing to attack, just helping our friends make sure they are prepared “in case”…or some bullshit such as that…

  102. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 12:18 pm #

    Metuselah,
    “US/NATO/Vatican/Islamo fascist alliance”
    Squished a lot of stuff together there, no? Flew right over my head, sorry. Not sure what this means exactly. Sounds a bit conspirational, but what isn’t these days?

  103. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 12:25 pm #

    Dog,
    Lifting the Veil produces several results on YouTube. Which documentary are you referring to? Please don’t say the one from Alex Jones.

  104. charliefoxtrot November 21, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    thanks, yo…i m sort of a caveman when it comes to computers & the internet…this stupid little smart-phone fell in my lap a coupla months ago and i m trying to get up to speed- apparently, judging by current events and commentary, none too soon!

  105. Kurt Cagle November 21, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    Remember, folks, Christmas is in only 34 days!
    I think we’ve past the point of no return some time ago, but right now what you’re seeing is a kind of downward spiral as all the BIG investors jump from “safe island” to “safe island” all the while aware that the islands themselves are simply melting icebergs that are getting smaller and smaller.
    The first downgrade of the US credit rating sent tremors globally (part of what’s happening now is a consequence of that). A second downgrade, not so much – it just causes the capital flight to veer directions for a day or so. Ditto the supercommittee – if we go into an automatic across the board cut, it will still take time to figure out what gets cut, and then we’re back to square one. This means that Congress just played a game of chicken with itself. It’s a lot like a man being confronted by a mugger with a gun who holds it to his own head and says “Give me all your money or I’ll shoot myself!”
    We’ll get through the end of the year without much real effect. Christmas sales will be down – why would anyone spend a lot on presents (assuming they have a lot to spend) when global financial apocalypse is playing in the background – but TPTB will of course want us to go through the daily consumerist ritual to stave off the inevitable for perhaps a few weeks more. By early February, however, I think the wheels will have come off that Blue Bus.
    Two bloodless coups in as many months (Papandreou and Berlusconi) have led to both Greece and Italy now under the squishy squidly tentacles of Goldman Sachs, and the “non-violent” protests there will probably have escalated to fighting in the streets by then. OWS, after going into quiescence for the winter, will be coming out with a vengeance by then, and both Republican and Democratic congress-critters will be fleeing from crowds rather than campaigning.
    BTW, Americans have never really gotten into the non-violent protest sort of thing, not in the true Gandhi spirit; the culture is just too different, there’s always someone ready to pick up a rock or pack a pistol. 2012 should be a very interesting year.

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  106. third_martini_banter November 21, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

    Oh come on you Doomers! The Good Life awaits you if you’d just stop thinking so negatively!
    Take, for instance, this elaborate essay on the sybaritic pleasures of a first-class flight on Cathay Pacific to the Orient:
    http://crankyflier.com/2011/10/26/best-flight-ever-first-class-on-the-cathay-pacific-777-300-guest-trip-report/
    Now that’s the shit, my friends!
    My IQ is 160, my Daddy’s rich, my Ma is good-lookin’, my prep-school GPA is off the charts, my SATs are perfect, and all I have to do is decide between Harvard, Yale, Stanford, or Princeton. After four fun years, (three if I want to rush things), I’m taking my hot bod to Stanford or Cambridge, where I’ll punch the MBA ticket, grab that IB brass ring at Goldman, and live La Dolce Vita, Global-style — yee ha!
    Enjoy your yurts, losers!

  107. k-dog November 21, 2011 at 12:33 pm #

    Absalom, this is the one.
    Lifting the Veil: Obama and the Failure of Capitalist Democracy
    Since I’m clarifying I’ll add a plug from one of the commentators in the film.
    “Lifting the Veil is the long overdue film that powerfully, definitively, and finally exposes the deadly 21st century hypocrisy of U.S. internal and external policies, even as it imbues the viewer with a sense of urgency and an actualized hope to bring about real systemic change while there is yet time for humanity and this planet. See this film!”
    Larry Pinkney
    The Black Commentator
    This and other comments can be found at:
    http://911blogger.com/news/2011-03-12/lifting-veil

  108. charliefoxtrot November 21, 2011 at 12:37 pm #

    actually, to be fair and unbalanced, it s the US/NATO/UN/vatican/islamist-judeo-christian extremist/IMF/WTO/FED/socio-communal-fascist conspiracy…did i leave anyone out?

  109. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

    HA HA HA… Lovin it!

  110. Widespreadpanic7 November 21, 2011 at 12:44 pm #

    Have CNBC on behind me and none of the hosts or talking heads seem too worried about anything. Yes, the markets are down. But they’re joking around, taking about companies like ‘Research in Motion’, and the ‘Black Friday’ shopping event. Will it meet expectations, that’s the question. Not a word about $50 billion wiped out in the MF Global fiasco. That apparently was last weeks news. They must not check in here at CFN so are not aware of the possible impending doom Jim writes about.
    Tripp I must have missed something. Are you abandoning your farm, where you put in such hard work, and headed for the hills? What happened? I’ve followed your progress on your site, which was impressive.
    Ibendet, Have been reading Ross Wetzsteon’s ‘Republic of Dreams, Greenwich Village: The American Bohemia, 1910-1960’. What a place! All these characters, Delmore Schwartz, Joe Gould, Max Bodenheim, Hart Crane, John Reed, Edna St. Vincent Millay just to name a few. Question, what’s it like down there now?
    —WSP7

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  111. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 12:59 pm #

    Watchin’ it now. Interesting, especially the clips of Obama’s campaign promises.

  112. Steve M. November 21, 2011 at 1:00 pm #

    Mr. Kunstler wrote at the end of “The Geography of Nowhere”: “But let’s assume we now face the future with better intentions.” Let’s not. We Americans aren’t ready to face the future with better intentions yet, just like (as Paddy Bauler once said) Chicago ain’t ready for reform yet.

  113. myrtlemay November 21, 2011 at 1:08 pm #

    Gerald Celente lost something in the neighborhood of 6 figures from MF. That’s significant for most of us, but for him it’s just walking around money. Still, it hurts to get burned. Maybe Corzine will (out of fear) restore to him his cash.

  114. And So it Goes November 21, 2011 at 1:09 pm #

    Jim.
    Your writings are a gem.
    Thanks so much for your weekly posts.

  115. bproman November 21, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    The only thing I see increasing these days is a lineup.

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  116. Gus44 November 21, 2011 at 1:14 pm #

    Most of us in the US couldn’t agree more. Why doesn’t your government tell us to fuck off?

  117. Nickelthrower November 21, 2011 at 1:17 pm #

    Greetings,
    I strongly doubt that it is karma. If or when the US goes then everybody is going down with it. Thousands of thermonuclear weapons, chemical and biological weapons and, of course, a heavily armed population will stir things up in such a way that no one on this planet will be safe. Just wait until some of those nasty plagues are released.
    Imagine the Black Death but on steroids. Those kinds of weapons are currently being stored and, as the Anthrax attack proved, politicians are not afraid to unleash weapons grade biological weapons on the public.

  118. Glensufi November 21, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    Well, well we are indeed an unusual group or at least Vlad and I are, never thought I’d see a reference in any media to Gurdjieff although I have been thinking about him and Doris Lessing a lot lately, probably not a good thing.

  119. wagelaborer November 21, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

    Last week a bunch of billionaires testified before Congress that they wanted their taxes raised.
    The ruling class is not monolithic. Some of them can see that it is better to give some than to have all of it taken.
    But parts of the ruling class are batshit crazy.
    They are the ones pushing for war. We peons can only watch and guess which country will be the trigger.
    Last week Obama explicitly threatened China. Over the weekend they threatened Iran. And drones kill people in Pakistan on a regular basis.
    And where are the “dissenters” in Syria getting the weaponry to kill so many police and soldiers?
    In the meantime, they’ve destroyed the society of Libya, igniting a civil war, and ruining the lives of people who had the best living standards of Africa.
    And there are STILL people on this blog who believe that the US has bases all over the world to protect peace? That we mean to be the world’s policeman? And in the kindly Andy Griffith way? Not the pepper-spraying, baton beating, skull-fracturing way?
    Man, it’s hard to penetrate the matrix.

  120. Bustin J November 21, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

    Solaguy said “Please post the link to enlighten me to FOOD STORAGE, I’m ready to stock up.”
    I just cracked my Y2K stash, and confirmed what I already knew: food storage can be dicey. 50 lbs of food went bad, mostly beans. Granted, they weren’t packaged in space age containers or anything, or kept in proper, steady temperatures.
    But it was a good simulation.
    Fire raining from the sky, acid rain falling, I haul the bad beans out from under the house. Being beans, they require bringing water to a boil (huge energy cost). The beans turn out to be bad (crunchy). I’m eating leaves and drippings from the gutter, so I eat bad beans anyway. Haemaglutinin and other poisonous lectins flood my system. Dying, I attempt to dial 911. Am informed that they will be able to reach me as soon as my number comes up. Thus went the apocalypse.
    The real downside of survival food is that it implies zero confidence in the system. You invest in insurance, which is expensive. The ROI is negative, if after 3 years you haven’t consumed it. If everyone believes their personal stash will suffice, no one gets on the project of changing their societies’ food systems. Thus, many choose to amplify their personal fat stores- which leads to diabetes. Now you must stockpile insulin. What is the shelf life of insulin? And on etc.

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  121. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 1:36 pm #

    Wow, very well said!

  122. Vlad Krandz November 21, 2011 at 1:40 pm #

    The Hippo? That sir is what we call a Hottentot Venus. One is reminded of Venus’ of Willendorf of ancient Europe. Compelling as hell. What is one’s “White Nationalism” or “Heterosexuality” next to something like that? One moves forward towards the inevitable. God help anyone who gets in the way. The Higher Impulses scream – Danger, Danger Will Robinson….You keep moving forward, eyes fixed in a primodial reptilian glare. Visuals have taken the place of pheremones in the “higher” primate. Danger, Danger, Will Robi – Shut UP! You find yourself still moving forward. It notices you and adjusts itself to meet your advance. Then a large Gorilloid Hominid interposes between you and it. Another lower instinct called self preservation kicks in. Between this and the Higher, our boy is finally stopped in his tracks. Is it joy or sadness that he feels? He laughs – the Laughter his seed of Immortality. He will return home and weave a chrysalis – his catepillar must die before he can fly to the stars.

  123. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 1:46 pm #

    I agree with the gist of what you wrote. I watched all of the recent soundbites on China and Iran you mentioned, and I thought wow, the U.S is really flaunting a large nut-sack in the face of possibly way under estimated adversaries. Wonder if it’s only a matter of time before them nuts get kicked.

  124. Vlad Krandz November 21, 2011 at 1:58 pm #

    I love’d Doris’s Lessings’s “Shikasta” – the agents of Higher Intelligence are indeed hard pressed. Shammat (Judeo Masonry) is Triumphant but they are begining to sicken too. If we can hang on we may win by surviving.
    In a more prosiac mode, Lessing talked about the decline of Feminism; how utterly self indulgent women become when just with each other. How in her youth among her circle, women took pride in not sticking it to their Ex, taking as little as possible. How things have changed, eh?
    What’s your Tradition? I’m involved in a strange synthetic Movement called Subud. It’s not a Complete Tradition so I still seek – but mostly inwardly now. But any overt Sufism means Islam – and I cannot countenance the rise of Islam in the West. Sufism would be fine – but real Sufism never comes without its Idiot Big Brother. I’ve tried but I cannot reconcile them. All things are whirling but my orbit is far from the Centre and must remain so – at least to the visible eye. Alas. Maybe the Khidr will take me on. I do love Green. I used to wear green pants in His honor (without knowing it of course).

  125. charliefoxtrot November 21, 2011 at 2:09 pm #

    Goddamn, somebody get him off the meds!

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  126. wagelaborer November 21, 2011 at 2:10 pm #

    As I said before, our “Supercommittee” is the same thing as the removal of Papandreou and Berlesconi.
    They dropped all remaining pretense of elected officials governing in our names, and replaced them with 12 banking stooges. Just because the rest of Congress was left in their offices doesn’t mean it wasn’t an economic coup.
    This went pretty much without comment, except for the usual democracy supporters online. There was no corporate media outrage. They blankly accepted the idea, and went on to report on its “progress” without ever mentioning the incredible non-Constitutionality of the entire thing.
    The impoverishment of the American people is taking place in slow motion, while we are transfixed by the travails of the 1%, and their stock market.
    Sure, it’s taking a long time for it all to unravel, because, indeed, people will go through the motions of normalcy as long as possible.
    It’s the reason I go to work, although I know that I will be fired at some point. I would like to eat and pay the bills as long as possible.
    And so does everyone else.

  127. k-dog November 21, 2011 at 2:12 pm #

    But in describing how the Subud Latihan works to restore true humanity Sumohadiwidjojo seems to be describing just another guilt based mind poison to me.

  128. Vlad Krandz November 21, 2011 at 2:13 pm #

    I’m a comin’ for yur Ma, boy. Sharpenin’ my pitch fokh jus now matter of fact.

  129. wagelaborer November 21, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    What happens to Australian governments who tell the US to fuck off?
    http://www.serendipity.li/cia/cia_oz/cia_oz1.htm

  130. charliefoxtrot November 21, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    anyone see where newt g(ett)ingrich said ‘child labor laws are stupid’?! and he is also campaigning for the privatization (stock market) of SS…wonder if he ll ask ron pall to be vp…?

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  131. Vlad Krandz November 21, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    You may be right. What does that long Java Word mean so I can respond?

  132. charliefoxtrot November 21, 2011 at 2:16 pm #

    …and relax there q-check- i spelled his name that way on purpose

  133. Grouchy Old Girl November 21, 2011 at 2:21 pm #

    If I was a person who believed in mysticism, portents of the future etc. I’d be worried right now. First, watched an old episode of the Twilight Zone very late Saturday night, the topic being how a totalitarian state operates. At the end, Rod Serling made his usual comment, cigarette in hand. This time he told us that any totalitarian state of whatever stripe has the same mantra, rigidly followed:
    Logic is the enemy.
    Truth is a menace.
    Maybe it was the lateness of the hour but it hit home and I wrote it down. Then last night impulsively decided to watch Cabaret yet again, only this time the ominous head bashing scenes and increasing repression and attacks on Jews seemed…not like history but something current.
    Left me uneasy. Now today JHK starts his blog using a paragraph of German words.
    Is this my own personal Twilight Zone? Or am I on to something here? Just wondering. Something’s not right, that’s for sure, and stocking up on beans and rice isn’t going to save us.

  134. ront November 21, 2011 at 2:21 pm #

    “The end is near!” What end? Isn’t it really just change?
    Everything passes…
    Outer circumstances change, but does man (humanity) change?
    Not as a rule. Not unless his/her motivations radically and permanently change, those that foster the practices that pursue the things of this world, personal gains, short-lived comforts, convenience, and illusory certainty.
    What urges a change in the motivations within a person? Suffering, misery, crises, desperation, empathy, unexpected loving kindness received, or other similarly powerful experiences that shake us or wake us up.
    Some of us feel it more than others, that is, the “upwising” and the imminent tear down/fall apart that makes way for the creative rebuild.

  135. azgog November 21, 2011 at 2:23 pm #

    Metastable is the word. Crushed and looking up from the wheel rut, timing is difficult to predict but trend is not. All these fingers in the dike, duct tape and emergency transfusions are staving off collapse momentarily, but, like the Titanic foundering in the night, lights still on and band playing, it will go down.
    At least the robber barons of old actually produced something, ie railroads and factories. The present generation elected to use their money as casino scrip, snort up their winnings and remove themselves to their castles and far from the fray.
    As the doctor might advise the patient with an incurable debilitating disease: take a trip to a foreign land, the sun and sea air will buck you up and take your mind off your problms. How about Iran, they need some volunteers, or China – that will keep you busy and the audience well distracted. I’m sure it will work for a while.

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  136. k-dog November 21, 2011 at 2:25 pm #

    Surley you know the latihan kejiwaan (spiritual exercise) of Subud works to restore true humanity according to his emminence Muhammad Subuh Sumohadiwidjojo the founder. IMHO religions often use a variation of a ‘man is broken’ theme to justify claims of a higher true knowledge. So pick your poison, the choices are endless.

  137. Grouchy Old Girl November 21, 2011 at 2:29 pm #

    Funny you should mention that extreme sense of entitlement rich kids have. Just visited my pal who’s a map librarian at a big Canadian university and she made a similar comment about some of the students she has to endure. How they just assume they live charmed lives and will sail from one achievement to the next without ever having to even think about failure. She doesn’t care for them much.

  138. Islander800 November 21, 2011 at 2:54 pm #

    The Black Swan Event could be the scale of an Iranian reaction to an attack by Israel/ U.S./NATO/Take Your Pick: a surface-to-surface missile barrage by Russian-supplied equipment that successfully takes out a number of ships in an American carrier group. Apparently, the U.S. has less-than-effective defense against the latest Russian models.
    What’s that you say? American stealth fighters will take out those missile sites before any strike on nuclear sites? I guess that implies an American first-strike, even if Israel wants to be “first!”, since Israel doesn’t have the resources to remove the Iranian missile threat. Iran won’t make fine distinctions between Israel and America if Israeli fighters suddenly appear in their skies first. They will strike back at any American resources they can. So an American first-strike on Iranian missile batteries is a given.
    Talk of a need for “some” ground troops to clean up after any (unsuccessful) attempt to take out Iran’s nuclear program is laughable. Iran is many times larger, in size and population, than Iraq. They may not like their current leadership (and in fact most Iranians are PRO American, something the neocons like to ignore), but they’ll turn on any occupiers with a vengence. Wouldn’t you? It will take 2 – 3 MILLION troops to have any hope of success. What’s that, our new employment program to mop up some of the millions without jobs?
    Ultimately, it won’t matter, because all gaming scenerios with Iran end in failure and many end in thermonuclear war. Short of that, oil traffic from the Gulf is halted and economies tank on $400/barrel oil.
    Now, what’s with all those neocons just itching to attack Iran? The ultimate diversion that leads us all to hell?
    Just say no!

  139. Nathan November 21, 2011 at 2:59 pm #

    A little skepticism is a good thing Asoka. As to economic prdictions…
    He is a great predictor of economic trends as he has predited 13 of the last 3 downturns!!

  140. Nathan November 21, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    How did you get a name that was already assigned?
    My Name?

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  141. metuselah November 21, 2011 at 3:07 pm #

    Imagine the Black Death but on steroids.
    ==
    I don’t need to imagine. I’m very familiar with the catalog of works by the blue-eyed devil dogs; So will others, soon enough. That’s why I say there’s windstorm of karma heading your way.

  142. metuselah November 21, 2011 at 3:14 pm #

    Sounds a bit conspirational, but what isn’t these days?
    ==
    You might want to familiarize yourself with the following historians and their writings:
    Carroll Quigley:
    The Anglo-American Establishment: From Rhodes to Cliveden
    Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time
    The Evolution of Civilizations: An Introduction to Historical Analysis
    Anthony Sutton:
    Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development: 1917–1930
    Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development: 1930–1945
    Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development: 1945–1965
    National Suicide: Military Aid to the Soviet Union
    Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution
    Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler
    Wall Street and FDR
    Technological Treason: A catalog of U.S. firms with Soviet contracts, 1917–1982
    Trilaterals Over America
    How the Order Creates War and Revolution
    How the Order Controls Education
    Edwin Black:
    The Nazi Nexus
    IBM and the Holocaust
    John Loftus:
    The Secret War Against the Jews: How Western Espionage Betrayed the Jewish People
    Unholy Trinity: The Vatican, the Nazis, and the Swiss Banks

  143. Buck Stud November 21, 2011 at 3:17 pm #

    Absalom,
    One man’s ‘kicking the can’ is another man’s ‘circling the drain’. Actually, kicking the can might be a good thing: If you don’t know what you’re doing, where you’re going, or how to get there, why stamp an exclamation point on an incomplete sentence?
    The good sculptor searches, probes, considers…keeps the visual dialogue open as long as possible before hammering out that final undercut into material that once removed, can never be replaced.
    Wise people understand the big moves the small and the small changes the big. Unfortunately, the tip of the spear seems to no longer value the shaft and society begins to de-laminate…even those who would rather remain included.

  144. Neil Kearns November 21, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

    re: This Is The End (song by the doors 1969)
    I think I scared my folks with that song on a roadtrip where we were all in the family station wagon, kind of tired- and I wanted to us all hear some of my music (proto-goth teenager attempt at bonding)We slapped that thing in (was it an 8 track) and my parents got really weirded out and treated me different after that. Welcome to the alienation of our culture I guess.
    I spose they being of same genetic stock as me, were hypnotised to the same degree by the melody, but there’s a line in there somewhere that talks of killing/raping parents so I suppose it was kind of a poorly thought out decision.

  145. Liquid Lennny November 21, 2011 at 3:36 pm #

    The analogy to the Titanic is often used to describe where we’re currently at right now and in many ways it’s pretty accurate. However, just remember, when the ship went down so did most of its crew in addition to a substantial number of the passengers. No doubt a few industrious types fashioned together some type of raft or simply clung to whatever flotsam or jetsam happened to be around at the time. Unfortunately, the icy waters still harvested its due dispite their efforts. So will be the same when this ship goes down. The best odds will be with those prepared both mentally and physically, flexibility ( stay liquid ) in both these regards will be essential. We all need to be alert ( stay frosty ) and use this time wisely to construct the best lifeboat possible and for fun just say FU to TPTB ( Occupy Anything ).
    Now try teaching this to your kids without appearing to be even more deranged in their eyes.
    Geez, and I thought teaching him how to drive was going to be tough…

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  146. Vlad Krandz November 21, 2011 at 3:39 pm #

    It was is a Dark Stormy Night. And it’s gonna get alot more so before Morning. Lots of Mourning before then I reckon.

  147. Vlad Krandz November 21, 2011 at 3:42 pm #

    Oh his name! I could never get my tongue around it. All Religions say that Man is Fallen. All Progessive, Communist, and Utopian Movements say the opposite. So why are things so bad? They proceed to project ALL of the Evil (and their Evil) onto Conservatives – proving themselves wrong and Conservatives right in how fallen everyone is.

  148. anti soak November 21, 2011 at 3:47 pm #

    No Hindu /Buddhist teachers do not teach a ‘fallen Man’, thats the old testament.
    Vedanta especially does not teach ‘sin and sinner’.

  149. k-dog November 21, 2011 at 3:48 pm #

    Memories of eight track tape players. So long ago. There was a special name for people who were easily weirded out back then. They were called uptight, and most parents were.

  150. k-dog November 21, 2011 at 3:50 pm #

    And to quote the other King – Rodney. Can’t we all just get along.

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  151. Widespreadpanic7 November 21, 2011 at 3:53 pm #

    Nathan
    I thought you “lived with the Yankee folk in the hills of old Vermont, where what you do all day depends on what you want”?
    Have you expatriated yourself to Australia?
    –WSP7

  152. anti soak November 21, 2011 at 3:58 pm #

    I see some parallels with humans and this beastly
    ‘society’.
    The movies are priceless…’hes my son, he eats apples’, humpfry opens his mouth and see the 10″
    fangs.
    ‘Marius Els with his pet hippo Humphrey at his farm in Free State, South Africa.’
    see them go for a swim together.

  153. ~micheal~ November 21, 2011 at 3:59 pm #

    You think with your guts and talk out your asoka.
    Are they predictions or a speculations that you reference? “Could” is not “will”.

  154. wagelaborer November 21, 2011 at 4:02 pm #

    I’m still laughing, Neil. Great story.

  155. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 4:06 pm #

    Thanks, Metuselah.
    That’s a lot of homework you’ve recommended. I’ve got a ton of material already, and won’t lie to you that I’ll rush to acquire the laundry list you’ve suggested. Also, I’m generally content to trust my instincts when it comes to assessing the breadth and depth of the sinister influences shaping the environment in which I live. I feel the effectors are nakedly apparent and unabashedly state their intentions outright. Not much need for a grand plot, in my view.
    I do have a question though. There is a difference between being an Idea Producer and an Idea Consumer. Which do you consider yourself?

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  156. metuselah November 21, 2011 at 4:08 pm #

    There is a difference between being an Idea Producer and an Idea Consumer. Which do you consider yourself?
    ==
    Truth seeker.

  157. anti soak November 21, 2011 at 4:17 pm #

    Just Like a Human!
    Marius Els, a farmer in South Africa, was found dead with bite wounds from his pet hippo, Humphrey. Els had spoken in the past about his relationship with Humphrey, whom he had found as a 5-month-old orphan.
    “Humphrey’s like a son to me, he’s just like a human,” Els said.
    “There’s a relationship between me and Humphrey and that’s what some people don’t understand.” He was photographed earlier this year riding Humphrey’s back. The animal, however, had scared some people before, once chasing a man and his grandson into a tree and frequently breaking into a local golf course and chasing golfers. Els’s body was found in the same river from which Humphrey had been rescued……………………

  158. wagelaborer November 21, 2011 at 4:18 pm #

    The passengers of the Titanic did not die equally, Lenny. And there were lifeboats, just not enough.
    There were more first class passengers saved than steerage. Most of the lifeboats from first class did not hold all that they could. Draw from this whatever conclusion you may.
    Some conspiracy theorists point out that three of the richest first class passengers to drown were opponents of the 1913 Federal Reserve Act. John Jacob Aster, Benjamin Guggenheim and Ira Strauss. Personally, I do not subscribe to this theory, although it is interesting.

  159. azgog November 21, 2011 at 4:20 pm #

    I don’t believe most of the owners who economized on steel plate and rivets then sent the SS Titanic out to break speed records were aboard that day, but I’m not a historian. Today the owners have their own corporate jets, castles with moats, private security forces, media outlets and millions of dollars to rewrite history. Today’s Titanic is the poorly built economy and they are busy burning the lifeboats by remote control.

  160. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 4:24 pm #

    Buck, forgive me, but that last comment seemed like a bit of feigned eloquence. I appreciate the good sculptor analogy, however.
    So, will the masses continue marching behind the politicians toward the cliff-side, or, are we seeing the early phase of a real American revolution, perhaps culminating this coming Spring? I recognize any response can only be of an opinion, not an empirical fact; I’m just soliciting yours.

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  161. Niels Laughlin November 21, 2011 at 4:35 pm #

    Translate.google.com wasn’t able to translate “schnorrers and schmiklers” as German or Yiddish. What does it mean? (I can kind of guess!).
    And thanks for the youtube link for The Doors “The End”.

  162. Eleuthero November 21, 2011 at 4:43 pm #

    CharlieFoxTrot said:
    another good one E; i especially like “peak intelligence”…
    ***************************************************************
    In daily discussions with my friends, I talk about the world’s predicament as meaning, ABOVE ALL, “Peak Intelligence”. Whether I am in the USA, Amsterdam, Berlin, or Toronto, not ONE of these places feels like it has the mental intensity or even INTEREST in thinking from even one decade ago.
    Even though Jim seems to feel that Europe’s population is somehow a bit “wiser”, I think much of that is a pose. When I was in Berlin a couple of years ago, it struck me that there were MORE spike-haired pin-brains THERE than even in a wack city like San Francisco. The “walking down the street mesmerized by your cellphone” phenomenon is also worse, especially in Northern Europe.
    Europe certainly has the intelligence to design cities that bring people together instead of tearing them apart as American suburbs do. However, once you’re in those nice spots you find out rather quickly how xenophobic Europeans are. If you speak to strangers there, especially in Northern Europe and Scandinavia, you are seen as a weirdo at best and a psychotic at worst.
    Finally, we should be GLAD that our immigration “problem” consists of illegal Mexicans. The large Muslim populations of Europe are a VASTLY greater danger … as Paris discovered a few years ago.
    E.

  163. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 4:48 pm #

    That’s a clever dodge. Not a producer, not a consumer, but rather a Truth Seeker. A vacuous proclamation of one’s sense of virtue? I had a similar conversation with a fellow who described himself as a gypsy truth seeker. I can’t say what exactly he meant by this designation, but I learned he was the sort prone to very well argued yet conspirational type thinking, common for people who have very few original thoughts.
    The conversation boiled down to me asking him how he scrutinized evidence, to thus embark upon truth testing. In other words, I was trying to find out if he were familiar with basic rules of logic. He wasn’t. What he meant by truth was really value. Values are typically based upon one’s beliefs, not evidence — big distinction.
    Anyhow, I thank you for recommending some things to help a young person ponder these issues.

  164. budizwiser November 21, 2011 at 4:52 pm #

    The people that count are still collecting assets and making money in the markets.
    Last nights 60 minutes episode nearly made me vomit.
    Luckily, I still had Family Guy and Football to save the evening.
    Clearly there are no saviors on the horizon and much of America remains comfortable complacent.
    Europe looks to be some sort of continuing proving ground to see how far the the PTB can go in taking over and looting nations of their treasures.
    I’m guessing this thing could take another decade to play out. But to be sure, the seeds the rich are sowing will eventually bear bitter fruit.
    There may never be justice for many – but there will be violence for some sooner or later.
    No need to take JK to task for his impatience. We all feel the frustrations of surviving in an insane world. Now go back to your free-speech zone and hold up your sign that never makes the evening news.

  165. Eleuthero November 21, 2011 at 4:59 pm #

    Why Nassim Nicholas Taleb is the Only “Genius” in Economics
    ******************************************************************
    He figured out a simple truth: Economists use a Gaussian distribution (the “bell curve”) to do their forecasts but there is no evidence that market movements are distributed as a Gaussian. Indeed, big gains and losses in market economics tend to happen in very compressed timeframes. The rest of the time, markets hover in trading ranges that seem like random movement.
    In other words, market mathematicians (a.k.a. “quants”) abuse fundamental principles of statistics and/or their start with faulty premises. Look at LTCM. It took the US economy for $500B yet it was run by TWO NOBEL LAUREATES IN ECONOMICS!! Their CAPM model (Capital Asset Pricing Model) was the greatest monetary loss associated with an intellectual idea perhaps in all of history.
    When are we going to stop lionizing a group of people who, on average, fail to beat a computer-run index fund for any asset class about 82% of the time? We always think that we can find the “geniuses” … who almost always revert to the class mean over time. A “mean” that’s below the averages.
    E.

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  166. Buck Stud November 21, 2011 at 5:08 pm #

    Absalom,
    You’re right: that was pretentious as shit. I was trying to formulate a thought and resorted to flowery jibberish based on a recollection of The Black Taoist.
    Good eye Abs and I’ll try and respond to your query tonight.

  167. Liquid Lennny November 21, 2011 at 5:10 pm #

    Wage, I didn’t know you had a blog, I’ll just clicked on your name by accident and saw your piece on the Titanic. I’ll check it out.
    Yea, unless your lifeboat is a family farm (unlikely, these days) or a marketable skill (craftsman trade) people these days are woefully unprepared for the future. Good chance those in first class will have a better shot at survival but I wonder how many layers of private security will be enough to insulate them from the icy steel.
    AZgog, I don’t think the creators of CDSs, CDOs and perpetual debt thought we’d hit the iceberg so soon. And you know, eventually those corporate jets will have to land and I kinda think the natives will be more than a little restless.
    Whatever history is written about this time we’ve all got a ticket to the last game of the series. But like all series, there’s always another season (unless the comiss kills the league). And as such the teams will most likey have a different roster. Maybe with a little more training and/or practice we might just make the squad.
    Or maybe, how ’bout we take the ball and start our own darn league, no 1% or banksters allowed…
    I’ve got to go now, I’m begining to sound like Ayn Rand doing a sports commentary…

  168. k-dog November 21, 2011 at 5:10 pm #

    I’ve been remiss in actually commenting on Blue Bus Scenario so far, I’m ready now.
    JHK seems to think that because things are falling apart financially everywhere that the whole system will necessarily fail. Makes sense but I think this is false and we have been down this road before. Ever tried to get money from somebody who doesn’t have any? It’s not easy and a whole lot of pretending has to go on for a while before any truth is faced up to.
    Logic and clear thinking may be on JHK’s side but the ability of the Powers That Be to keep things rolling by passing the buck and other chicanery has been severely underestimated. The race to the bottom will be temporarily slowed by several unfolding games of musical chairs as blame is passed along from chair to chair.
    Maybe all the way through the holidays if we are lucky enough. Lets hope so. That’s my prediction.
    Eggnog anyone?

  169. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 5:33 pm #

    Right on.

  170. ozone November 21, 2011 at 5:44 pm #

    Chicanery, legerdemain and eggnog it is!
    (B’lieve I’ll have mine with a large splash of dark rum… while we can still get it. ;o)

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  171. metuselah November 21, 2011 at 6:10 pm #

    I reject dualities and the box they put you in. It’s an old trick, the Hegelian dialectic. We are all victims its machinations, myself included. This can’t be avoided. It is what it is. I think what you’re really asking is what animates me. It is revenge. I’m Shylock and I’m and going to poke Master William’s eyes out and the eyes of those lords that commissioned him. That’s my contribution to humanity. It is a big one.

  172. maomaomao1 November 21, 2011 at 6:11 pm #

    ???††??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????‰?‰?‰????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????‰?‰?‰?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????‰???????????????????????????????????‰??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????‰?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????‹?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????‹???????????????????????????????????‰?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????‰????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????‰??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????‰??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????‰????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????‰???????????????????????????????????????…????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????‰?‰?‰????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????‰?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????‰????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????‰?‰?‰????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

  173. debt November 21, 2011 at 6:13 pm #

    Dear Maomao…
    Got gold?
    Best,
    Debt

  174. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 6:15 pm #

    Thank you for your opinion.
    Mine is a thankless task: going up against the religion of Orlov and the worship of doomsterism for the past 40 years (only 8 on CFN). True believers ignore the data and continue believing.
    Like someone said earlier, they are focused on minutiae (trees) of hedge funds, CDS’s, and other macroeconomic niceties, and are not seeing the forest.
    E. said not to get hung up on details of the predictions (numbers and such) and look instead at the TRENDS. OK, here are some USA trends for you:
    Life expectancy has increased by 30 years during the 20th century.
    Infant mortality rates have fallen 10-fold.
    The number of cases of (and the death rate from) the major killer diseases–such as tuberculosis, polio, typhoid, whooping cough, and pneumonia–has fallen to fewer than 50 per 100,000.
    Air quality has improved by about 30 percent in major cities since 1977. I began watching this one around 1970.
    Agricultural productivity has risen 5- to 10-fold.
    Real per capita gross domestic product has risen from $4,800 to $31,500.
    Real wages have nearly quadrupled from $3.45 an hour to $12.50.
    Even most poor Americans have a cornucopia of choices that a century ago the Rockefellers and the Vanderbilts could not have purchased. Today more than 98 percent of American homes have electricity and a flush toilet. (Don’t downplay this: most of the world does not have such luxuries.)
    Those are trends that E. does not mention. He would rather focus on numbers that have 9 or 12 zeroes after them and propagate the fear that this week it is all going to come crashing down: Europe, the USA, and Thanksgiving ruined… this week.
    Bah humbug!
    I was waiting for the closing bell to post again and the DOW did not go down today anywhere near its declines of recent months. I mean we are nowhere near a DOW of 4,000, which has been the prediction for the LAST THREE OR FOUR YEARS.
    The DOW closed at 11547.31 down 248.85 points? (-2.11%?) as of Nov 21 4:03pm ET
    Where is the TREND, Mr. E.? Where is the European collapse? Where is the fecal matter that is supposed to have been splattered world wide today?
    Whoever said TPTB can string this along for years was right… TPTB do not benefit from a completely broken system. TPTB will continue to kick the can down the road… and you will have your Thanksgiving dinner because the grocery shelves will not become empty this week.

  175. Liquid Lennny November 21, 2011 at 6:21 pm #

    Ozone,
    Having the necessary mechanical appertances and plumbing ability to create your own still will be critical to have in the new economy.
    And if it doesn’t quite work out, well, hey, next rounds on you.
    Splish – splash, There’s always an upside…

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  176. third_martini_banter November 21, 2011 at 6:48 pm #

    Wait a minute — my stock portfolio got hammered so instead of Princeton I went to UC Davis to save money and got pepper-sprayed on Friday by Lt. John Pike, who thought he was spraying his roses for aphids:
    http://www.reelseo.com/uc-davis-pepper-spray-video/
    Will they still hire me at Goldman or will I be branded a troublemaker now?

  177. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 7:10 pm #

    Fair enough, I guess. Instead of duality, I see some opt for infinite, rhetorical vagary.
    Thanks for writing.

  178. charliefoxtrot November 21, 2011 at 7:10 pm #

    hey really, where in the world do you live? it sure isn t the usa i live in…talk about the forest for the trees…for example: wtf good does it do to make $12/hr when everyFUCKINGthing costs so much more?! do you think Occupy is a fad or a joke? it s because the system has been hijacked- every part of it- and we are cold, hungry, sick, and tired of watching that goddamned can get kicked down the road instead being, i don t know, RECYCLED??!! the fact remains that, as a planet, we have reached the point of (wait for it, class…:) Peak Bullshit- a good five or six thousand years late, IMHO, but hey, you know the expression…

  179. farmsalmon4ever November 21, 2011 at 7:12 pm #

    Just for the record I am a big JK fan, read many of his books, AND I really appreciate Asoka’s comments. He is the voice of reason. Since JK failed so miserably at his prediction of Y2K disaster (ie there was none. THAT was embarrassing) I completely ignore his timing estimates. But he does have the trend right and for the right reasons. He also failed to predict what a loser Obama would turn out to be.
    Keep, keepin’ ’em honest Asoka.

  180. lbendet November 21, 2011 at 7:20 pm #

    On Forbes Website today.(BTW, I got this from Max Keiser’s site today.
    Did someone at FINRA (Financial Industry Regulatory Authority) do Crozine a favor and waive his registration requirements?
    [Anyone actively involved in the member’s investment banking or securities business must be registered……FINRA’s online records disclose that Corzine was last registered in 1999 with Goldman, Sachs & Co.]—Bill Singer, Forbes
    How many times do we have to see this play out. If you’re Madoff, the SEC let’s basic logic and math slide while the officers pass their business cards to the Maestro.(or Monstro)
    If you’re Corzine the Govt., likes you so much you don’t need the basic requirements to run a global mutual fund.–Oh boy to be an insider–there simply are no laws–It must be great to be a god in this paradise. No wonder they hate regulations–that’s just for the little people (99%).
    Now you see what happens–Oh and Obama wanted to appoint Corzine into the cabinet. Not only did he fail miserably at the global casino table but his clients money has disappeared.
    Celente is fuming. I’ve heard more of his rants in the last day or so.

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  181. wagelaborer November 21, 2011 at 7:22 pm #

    Yes, I have a blog, but I wasn’t able to post for a while, and just started again. That’s kind of funny that I had just written about the Titanic.
    The upper class has a plan, but I don’t think it’s going to work out so well for them.
    If they all survive, and we don’t – who will be their servants? Who will grow their food and mine their coal?
    Doh!
    http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2004/08/driving_on_the_.html

  182. lbendet November 21, 2011 at 7:26 pm #

    Wage,
    I’m sure they’ll find some useful idiots to carry their water for them–Don’t they always.
    As long as they have something someone wants they can get people to do things for them.

  183. metuselah November 21, 2011 at 7:34 pm #

    rhetorical vagary
    ==
    It’s only that to those who are uninitiated. You live in an emotional and informational cocoon, and so what I say to you does not resonate. I don’t blame you, just as wouldn’t blame a newborn baby for not understanding the universe beyond the need to eat and shit.

  184. charliefoxtrot November 21, 2011 at 7:34 pm #

    …it is also obvious the banksters who have gotten their slimy sausage fingers in the pieholes of “our” leaders have never been aware the true living conditions we labor under because they don t CARE…and they ve vastly underestimated both the power of communication and the strength & community that comes from having nothing to lose and dignity to gain- and if you/they think we can be stopped by crushing our rights, our heads, or turning everyone out in the cold, y all are as stupid as, well, a box of fat, weak, money-grubbing bankers…

  185. turkle November 21, 2011 at 7:36 pm #

    Hi,
    Some of the money was in equities and houses that lost their nominal value. It never really was real money but asset values that depreciated, so it never was dollars in the bank. Other money did change hands in various payouts and financial gambling schemes, but that pails in comparison, really. The Fed created trillions in new money by lending it at (basically) 0% to various financial institutions. I’m convinced they gave some of that away even if they claim it was all repayable loans. I don’t believe it. Their accounting is quite crooked, IMHO. They won’t even say which institutions got the money in front of Congressional panels.
    The money that went to Iraq to fund the reconstruction went into various pockets of US and UK (mostly) defense contractors, whose connections to our leaders such as Cheney is just one big coincidence, I’m sure. The Iraq’s got some of it, like a 10% trickle down I’m assuming.
    That’s a start at least…

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  186. turkle November 21, 2011 at 7:37 pm #

    “beyond the need to eat and shit”
    Well, what else is there really, besides the, uh, perpetuation of the species?

  187. JonathanSS November 21, 2011 at 7:38 pm #

    I appreciate your contrarian views on this site in which the prevailing view is “WASF’d”.
    I was off this site for a few months doing productive things like riding my bike 300 mile/week, gardening & switching to a vegan diet. I really got some good info from books such as “The China Study”, & “Forks Over Knives” (along with the documentary of the same name – “FOK”).

  188. fairguy November 21, 2011 at 7:38 pm #

    Hi all,
    Just back from Vegas, lured into a cheap weekend deal with my wife in return for hearing a timeshare pitch. When the rep got to the ROI portion and asked me how many years I expect to be going on vacation, imagine the look on face when I replied “2 or 3” (I’m 52). So I did a bit of explaining and my wife goes “that’s what I have to listen to at home” LOL. It was good fun. Otherwise, the party goes on with the clueless remaining clueless and those like myself enjoying it while we can. If at all possible it’s getting crazier and crazier with lineups at shows and restaurants, prices through the roof and DJ parties galore.
    Then yesterday, still at the hotel I uncharacteristically open CNN and watch the shameless fuck Newt Gingrich berate the OWSers for not getting decent jobs and a haircut. “What do they think, money grows on trees?” says the cynical crook who makes a living selling political patronage to lobbyists. I wanted to punch out the flatscreen TV but that would end up costing more than the entire vacation. Maybe I should have anyway.
    Hey let’s have fun while we can because as Jim points out, this is all coming to an end and sooner than most expect. Ooo wee!

  189. Kitaj November 21, 2011 at 7:43 pm #

    Love the stuff on Ayn Rand.

  190. Pepp November 21, 2011 at 7:46 pm #

    I am not a bit surprised that the idea that American Marines will now ‘ have a BASE in Australia’ is being peddled by the airy-fairy.
    The facts. It has been agreed that the marines can rotate thru the AUstralian training base 250 at a time,by 2013, rising to possibly, and I repeat, possibly 2500 by 2017. This procedure has been used for the Malaysian defence forces, the Indian defence forces, the Indonesian defence forces, the NZ defence forces, and quite a few others of which I cant be bothered mentioning. The Usa Marines have been rotating thru this base 50 at a time for a while now. It works well for them and it works well for us, we charge , they pay. Like everyone else. It is one of the worlds biggest training facilities, composed of terrain that is chilling (in a very warm way) in the extreme.
    US marines will be subject to AU law, to AU currency, to AU food, to AU social norms, ( which may be one of their difficulties on par with the terrain) but so far the only fatalities of US trainees has been those of the literal Darwin sort, nutso stuff, like diving into pools that clearly are signed CROCS.
    We intend to take very good care of your trainees, as we have of all other nations rotaters. They will be fed well, re educated, medically attended to, equipped especially, and hopefully come out of it with a good realisation of their own capabilites and limitations. This is what the base is about. Among other things.
    Sharing a military base with other nations has long been a practice in the AU defence forces, it enhances and expands their experiences and our own. GW Bush asked back in 2003 for a base of his own , but that is against AU law. He was surprised at this, oddly. This current arrangement is a gracious gesture on the part of AU in line with our delicate relationship with China which is, you will appreciate, more valuable. Obviously.
    So rest easy. Your 250 blokes will be ok. We regard them as special cases, to be somewhat cushioned and guarded, as the Northern Territory is no place for dimwitted or the suburban, they may even enjoy it after a while.

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  191. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 7:57 pm #

    “So rest easy. Your 250 blokes will be ok.”
    ———–
    Hope you guys have some rape crisis clinics near the base.
    Wherever USA GIs go, there are rapes of local girls (sometimes 12 or 13 year olds).

  192. metuselah November 21, 2011 at 7:57 pm #

    Well, what else is there really
    ==
    Everything! Writing our future!

  193. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 8:03 pm #

    Asoka, I typically enjoy the skepticism you bring to the discussion, but I don’t think the statistics you’ve presented in your post prove your point with any legitimacy. In fact, there are some obvious reasons why those statistics are tenuous support for the advancement, or arguable lack thereof, of the American standard of living for last 40 years; compared to what’s possible, that is.
    I’ve heard statements from different academics, as seemingly learned as yourself, that the conditions of slavery were much better in the 18th century than they were in the 16th, so were those facts sufficient grounds to counter the contentions of abolitionists?
    And really, we’re all thankful for flush-able commodes, but are you really claiming something like: because we have access to XBOXes and smartphones, we should consider our standard of living better than that of the Rockefeller’s?
    Wow. Too much Fox News?

  194. Vlad Krandz November 21, 2011 at 8:18 pm #

    See the descriptions of Kali Yuga humanity. Look at icon of the Dancing Shiva. He dances on top of a little man – the dwarf soul. In the Shaivite Scriptures, the lowest type of man is called “pasu” the beast man. In short, ordinary people are Unenlightened. And generally more or less impure, immoral, and fallen.
    The whole Human Race is fallen from its Satya Yuga estate. And each person is fallen from their Divine Condition.
    Maybe your objection is about Original Sin – a slightly different concept. The East doesn’t teach people are born evil – just fallen compared to their original state. Impure, Ignorant, Immoral – all a bit different than saying that someone deserves eternal hell.
    If people were fine as they are (as K Dog thinks) then there would be no need for Religion of any kind.
    Advaita Vedanta is the most elitist and intellectual of the Vedanta Schools. But they have trouble admitting there is a World or Individuals to begin with. Look at the more popular schools of dual or qualified Vedanta as well as Shaivite and Shakti Schools. Before One can talk about whether Humanity is Fallen, one has to admit Humanity exists in the first place. These other Schools and Sects have no problem in that direction.

  195. charliefoxtrot November 21, 2011 at 8:19 pm #

    wage, any chance you can post a link? i think i d like to see what you have to say about a thing or two…

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  196. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 8:20 pm #

    An emotional and informational cocoon? So say you, and that’s fine; I’m glad to see you’ve formulated your own opinion on something, even if it amounts to merely ad hominem condescension toward me.
    For the record, much of what I’ve read from you resonated, until the multidimensional conspiracy blurt, which may well have some merit. But when I asked for clarification, I was scolded with a recommendation of 30 books or so, instead of your own delineation of what it was I might not have understood about your large acronym, er whatever it was. Like a Catholic nun who smacks kids with rulers and then makes them copy the dictionary, or something of the sort.
    Lastly, you make some sort of recalcitrant remark about my limited understanding of the universe beyond the need to eat and shit, as if you’ve ordained yourself the spiritual arbiter of everyone not like you. A duality indeed.
    Sorry for the bruised ego.

  197. Vlad Krandz November 21, 2011 at 8:24 pm #

    And the women refused to row back and rescue the men in the water – men who had let them have their place. Somehow or other you forgot about that part. More Marixst equality no doubt.

  198. metuselah November 21, 2011 at 8:28 pm #

    The whole Human Race is fallen from its Satya Yuga estate. And each person is fallen from their Divine Condition.
    ==
    No, those who are fallen are those who are learned and dance on people’s souls. They are fallen because they are cruel and greedy and are little more than learned beasts. This perfectly describes all religious organizations, but in particular the Vatican.

  199. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 8:36 pm #

    are you really claiming something like: because we have access to XBOXes and smartphones, we should consider our standard of living better than that of the Rockefeller’s?

    No. I was just trying to expand E.’s narrow notion of how to measure a trend to take in a century of time. Things have gotten BETTER in the last hundred years. In human history there are temporary setbacks, and then there are advances.
    For example, Argentina defaulted in 2001, and now has a GDP growth rate of 9.2%. Over the long haul things are getting BETTER not worse. But many here think economic collapse or hyperinflation is the end of the world. Iceland, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, etc. say otherwise.
    The religion preached here is that no country can indefinitely get away with spending more than it makes. But hyperinflation is not a death sentence, only a temporary (and painful) set back.
    Furthermore, quality of life should not only measured by economic indicators. There are things more important than money.

    Wow. Too much Fox News?

    Wow. Too much jumping to conclusions.
    I do not have cable TV at home and do not have access to Fox News … unless I am in a hotel or an airport or a barbershop.

  200. progress2conserve November 21, 2011 at 8:42 pm #

    “schnorrers and schmiklers”
    -James Howard Kunstler-
    Wow, JHK, thanks for the new word. “Schnorrers” is a Yiddish term for sponges, beggars, or freeloaders. This word, of which I had never heard, returns 124,000 GOOGLE hits – by itself.
    “Schmikler” returns 591,000 GOOGLE hits – although I’m less clear on the definition of “schmiklers,” which does not seem to have an actual definition.
    Nevertheless – entering “schnorrers and schmiklers” as a GOOGLE search, in quotes, returns only 6 hits.
    SIX TOTAL HITS- –
    And EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE SIX HITS is related to this week’s CFN entry.
    So, JHK – you get points for creativity.
    And you get points for your purposeful look at gloom and doom – every single week.
    And why anyone would spend 8 minutes – let alone 8 years – pointing out to JHK’s readers that this gifted, talented, and CREATIVE wordsmith, is sometimes wrong on specifics, and sometimes wrong on his timing.
    Gratuitously pointing this out over and over and over – is simply a bizarre thing to be doing.
    Especially on JHK’s own website.
    Bizarre, I say. And certainly counterproductive – in the larger scheme of human endeavors.
    (and perhaps something only a schnorrer would do)
    No wonder the internet is generating mostly a bunch of human noise – and no productive consensus.
    Crap.

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  201. Eleuthero November 21, 2011 at 8:45 pm #

    Absalom,
    Metuselah is the sort of troll that all blogs with intellectual content have. I think they stamp them out in a factory in Hoboken, NJ. They claim that OTHER people are ignorant, cruel, etc. and then they proceed to decimate not just other people’s OPINIONS but then the PEOPLE THEMSELVES and proclaim himself possessed of Divine wisdom.
    This guy has threatened to take a baseball bat to other people’s heads, smash their faces in, etc.. You got lured in because you actually agreed with some opinion that he uttered and then when you didn’t walk the ENTIRE intellectual plank with him, he started to call you names. The threats would ensue later unless you do the smart thing: SHUN him. Do not make ANY direct replies.
    People like this are disgusting beings because while being absolutely consumed with an unquenchable rage they proclaim that THEY are gentle, wise, etc.. He’s just another bully. The worst remaining on the site by far. There are a few other pains in the ass but at least the other pests don’t deify themselves before they eviscerate others.
    E.

  202. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 8:50 pm #

    ProCon, did you actually look at the Google results? Or did you just take Google’s word that there were 124,000 results?
    I decided to look at all of them. When I got to page 87 of the results, this is the message Google gave me:

    In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 880 already displayed.

    When I clicked on the link, supposedly to see the rest of the results, there were none. I was taken back to page one of the results.
    In other words, be a little more skeptical about Google. What you thought were 124,000 results was actually only 880 results.
    Do the experiment yourself. I have done it with numerous searches, especially those that Google tells me there are millions of results. The truth is there are never more than 1,000 results.
    I suppose Google just assumes that no one will ever look through 88 pages of results to find out the truth: Google lies about its results numbers.
    I would tell Google what I told E. Numbers have meaning and should not be used carelessly.

  203. jarrollin November 21, 2011 at 8:52 pm #

    So (JH) K. has discerned that we will not be making it to The Castle again this week. This should come as no surprise, seeing as most recent attempts to communicate with the castle, let alone communicate with anyone about the castle, have been met with more weirdness, complicated replies and obfuscation. At times (JH) K. wonders if this trek is worth it, seeing as this vicious circle he treads nears a local cliff … Later in the week he knows the thoughts of the locals will, once again, devolve into outlandish xenophobic ramblings fixating on who should and should not be let in to use the finite resources of the land. K., a land surveyor, will be so tired of these thoughts that he will not be able to lift his head. After all, isn’t the castle the greatest resource? And is he not the outsider who is trying to contact the castle. Stay tuned …

  204. Jimmy Drinkwater November 21, 2011 at 8:56 pm #

    “No wonder the internet is generating mostly a bunch of human noise – and no productive consensus.
    Crap.”
    ====================================================
    The net is a big place, blog comment sections not so much. It’s not good not appropriate to confuse the two. It would be a mistake to think blog remoras are capable of much more than being self-satisfied their weekly activity somehow equates to the hard work of real activism.

  205. progress2conserve November 21, 2011 at 9:00 pm #

    On to current events –
    Wage, and all other conspiracy theorists – – –
    For some reason, every time I have seen a TV today, I have seen Michael Bloomberg’s billion-dollar-net-worth face. And he was talking about – WHAT ELSE – that sad deluded Muslim wanna’ be SOLO terrorist. And Bloomberg’s mug was followed by a picture of a couple of batteries, some pipe, and what looked to be micro-Christmas tree lights.
    I’m not saying this guy was up to any good.
    I am saying that the detection/arrest of this individual did NOT POSSIBLY JUSTIFY this airtime.
    So – – either TPTB are using this Terrorist Arrest as a distraction for OWS, Gingrich, Pepper Sprayed College Students, and European Economic Collapse looming on the horizon – –
    Or else – the average American news watcher as dumb as a sack of turnips.
    That turnip thing – is my best guess, still.

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  206. metuselah November 21, 2011 at 9:01 pm #

    bruised ego
    ==
    It’s very clear that you are an ignorant sob. This is your own admission. You have very limited knowledge of anything beyond the propaganda that was fed to you.
    I compared you to a baby, because in terms of your knowledge and experience, and therefore also your emotional programming, that’s what you are. If I hurt your feelings, too bad. That’s part of your education. There’s only one remedy to your condition and that is to read those books. Maybe then we can speak as equals.

  207. metuselah November 21, 2011 at 9:05 pm #

    Another bruised ego of a gov mafia employee and a hypocrite. You know it, I know it, and everyone with a fair mind knows it.

  208. progress2conserve November 21, 2011 at 9:07 pm #

    “once again, devolve into outlandish xenophobic ramblings fixating on who should and should not be let in to use the finite resources of the land.”
    -jarrollin-
    Ah, great jarrollin – another one of the “America needs 600,000,000+ residents” cheerleaders, I presume.
    You do know this is a “peak oil type?” website.
    And that prior to Columbus and Oil – the place only supported about 10% of our present population.
    Have you ever read Collapse? Or Overshoot?
    You need to.

  209. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 9:10 pm #

    Absalom, while none of us have the scope of knowledge, the penetrating insight, and the certainty about the Vatican/etc. that Metuselah has, all us lesser beings limp along and do the best we can.
    I hope you do not allow Metuselah’s insults to drive you away. I have appreciated your comments and hope you continue to contribute.

  210. jarrollin November 21, 2011 at 9:12 pm #

    No cheerleading here. I honestly wish the whole planet would chill out on the baby-making. Maybe if I ask nicely … No wait, that never works. Maybe reverse psychology, “Hey everybody have a ton more babies.” No, that too would be ineffectual. The fact is, overpopulation is what it is on this or that side of an arbitrary geographical border.

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  211. turkle November 21, 2011 at 9:16 pm #

    I heard some conspiracy theories about the Vatican/Jesuits, the Knights Templar (actually Satan worshippers I’m told), and and the international banks, but now it just seems that Goldman Sachs are our new overlords. Ex-GS people or affiliates are in charge of many (most?) major national banks. This is definitely true in the US, and now after a wave of personnel changes Europe, it is happening there, too. Someone said they work for the Rothschilds. I dunno, really. I for one welcome our new GS overlords.

  212. turkle November 21, 2011 at 9:18 pm #

    How about this. Carry around a sign (or wear a t-shirt) that says…
    “Hey, everyone. Stop fucking!”

  213. progress2conserve November 21, 2011 at 9:18 pm #

    Ok – so – in the book of Asoka. – GOOGLE search numbers are subject to some weird sort of question.
    And in the book of asoka. – casting an aspersion on GOOGLE search numbers – is the same thing as actually producing a useful thought.
    Doesn’t matter.
    You come onto CFN most every week to namecall and criticize JHK and most of his commenters.
    You’re a schumck.
    Which returns 346,000,000 GOOGLE results.

  214. RHenry November 21, 2011 at 9:20 pm #

    Asoka is correct. Predictions on this blog are likely too pessimistic and surely poorly timed. It’s always the rioting and systemic collapse will occur next month, or within the next 6 months, and so on. Yet the beat goes on.
    I don’t like the bailouts, or the money printing, cause it props up inefficiency, but they can go on for a long long time, especially money printing in a deflationary setting.
    Timing, not just trends, does matter. An up trend or a down trend can always be justified by a random starting point. The stock market has gone up every year since 2008, so we are enjoying an uptrend, correct?
    Or it has decreased significantly since its high in 2002, so we are on a downtrend, right?
    But wait, it has produced a decent return since 1990, must be a long term up trend and the 2002 highs were a bubble now corrected…
    If you say…there’s gonna be a recession next year…and a recession doesnt occur for 5 years…the prediction was wrong and the fact that a recession ‘eventually’ occured is worthless since everyone knows there will be recessionary periods after every expansion.
    Sure the stock market may go to 4000 someday, but if it is 20 or 50 years from now that doesnt make JHKs predictions good. Timing does matter if you want to be in the prediction business.
    And no doubt society will someday collapse, every society does, that is an easy prediction thatwill eventually be proven true.
    Those claiming to see the future clearly gain credibility with accurate, timely predictions

  215. turkle November 21, 2011 at 9:21 pm #

    Newt Gingrich….now there’s a true schmuck. He divorces his wife while she’s in the hospital with cancer, and he cheats on his other wife and blames it on his love of America. (I have never met a woman named America, but if I did, I bet she’d be fat and depressed.) Then he’s got the balls to champion “family values.” What a turkey. (or rotten stinky elephant as it were)

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  216. progress2conserve November 21, 2011 at 9:27 pm #

    “The fact is, overpopulation is what it is on this or that side of an arbitrary geographical border.”
    -jarrollin-
    Except the US uses 25% of planetary resources at our present population.
    And we add 1 million LEGAL immigrants per year.
    And – mostly because of this – we add 3 million souls/year to the US economy.
    And, because of this, the US will be the only major country with a STILL GROWING population by 2050.
    If humans or our civilization make it that far.
    Which seems unlikely.
    Drill, baby, drill.
    Bomb, baby, bomb.
    Grow, baby, grow.
    It’s all the same – in the end.
    ==============================

  217. anti soak November 21, 2011 at 9:27 pm #

    Google: Narayana Guru, He built temples for the ‘untouchables’ …check Swami Chinmayananda
    You misunderstand much, esp. about the best
    Vedanta [not hare krisna with the idols]
    ‘The whole Human Race is fallen from its Satya Yuga estate. And each person is fallen from their Divine Condition.’………..and this is in keeping with the Divine Condition!

  218. jarrollin November 21, 2011 at 9:27 pm #

    Don’t know if that would work. But with good marketing, could be a hell of a money maker. How about bumper stickers saying, “Stop knocking people up! It’s good for the planet.”

  219. turkle November 21, 2011 at 9:28 pm #

    “No wonder the internet is generating mostly a bunch of human noise – and no productive consensus.”
    Merely a reflective of our disagreements and dischord in “real life,” I’d say. There’s 7 billion people on the planet, and many billions of them have internet access. Each one of these people is a unique bag of opinions and beliefs (with a lot of this based on irrational hogwash like religion), so good luck getting anyone to agree on anything 100% with you.
    That said, I’d just like to put it out there that I agree 100% with whatever asoka says, just for kicks and cuz I’m tired of trying to think on my own. (Hmmm, time to don flame retardant internet track suit now.)
    I’m also making a personal pledge to not call any of you any nasty names this week, like fuckstick, asshat, moron, dipshit, etc.
    Even if you are one and really deserve it. Gratuitous niceness is chicken soup for the soul. (So I’ve heard.)
    This goes for Qshtik, too, who will inevitably piss me off somehow. But I forgive him in advance.

  220. anti soak November 21, 2011 at 9:30 pm #

    ‘most every week ‘
    No! numerous times a day, some days.
    I may have advised you to ignore the troll, but do what you will!
    Keep up the good work warning people about ‘the numbers’.

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  221. jarrollin November 21, 2011 at 9:32 pm #

    From a geo-political point of view, this is why it’s good that our economy is waning, enough of this over-consumption crap. Right?

  222. Qshtik November 21, 2011 at 9:32 pm #

    Infant mortality rates have fallen 10-fold.
    ==============
    Groan…here we go again.
    Given your statement above, and assuming “fold” means “times,” if infant mortality was 7 out of 1000 in the year 2000 (it was roughly that number according to one site I googled) what was the number of infant deaths per 1000 in the year 1900?
    As in high school, to receive credit you must show your calculations.
    Reminder: At 3:57AM today you said: “Numbers mean something and should not be used carelessly.”

  223. metuselah November 21, 2011 at 9:32 pm #

    Gratuitous niceness is chicken soup for the soul. (So I’ve heard.)
    ==
    Just the opposite! Spoiled children are just that, spoiled children.

  224. thomas99 November 21, 2011 at 9:40 pm #

    Jimbo…I’ve lost track of what you do for fun anymore. Maybe you could enlighten all of us?

  225. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 9:42 pm #

    ProCon said: “And we add 1 million LEGAL immigrants per year.”
    ============
    Yes! Thank God!
    Today in El Paso the largest naturalization ceremony happened and they interviewed some of the new citizens, like the guy who is getting his citizenship because he is serving in the Air Force.
    You think people willing to die for the nation should be denied citizenship?

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  226. turkle November 21, 2011 at 9:46 pm #

    Fiddlin.
    As in playing hillbilly violin.

  227. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 9:47 pm #

    Post Script
    Today’s new USA citizens came from 22 countries. The more the merrier. Immigrants are job creators. Multiculturalism strengthens the USA.

    Over all, it turns out that the continuing arrival of immigrants to American shores is encouraging business activity here, thereby producing more jobs, according to a new study.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/31/business/economy/31view.html

  228. turkle November 21, 2011 at 9:48 pm #

    That would mean it was 70 out of 1000 in 1900, yes?
    This isn’t a trick question is it?

  229. progress2conserve November 21, 2011 at 9:48 pm #

    “From a geo-political point of view, this is why it’s good that our economy is waning, enough of this over-consumption crap. Right?”
    -jarrollin-
    Concur, jarrollin. And it’s quite likely that almost none of our 1,000,000 US immigrants per year – would come in to the US and stay in the US without AFDC, and Section 8 housing, and all of the other subsidies that LEGAL immigrants are entitled to immediately, and you know, LEGALLY.
    ========================
    Eleuthero – you posted a thought provoking piece late last week on CFN –
    To the effect that your LEGAL immigrant college students – had diminished drastically in intellectual quality, for the past ten years.
    You suggested that the “Russians,” or whomever, were exporting their undesirables, while the better Russians stayed home. (forgive me if I’m screwing this up – it’s from memory – so please correct if necessary)
    ============================
    Anyway, E – let me suggest that it’s not the quality of immigrant that has gone down.
    Rather – it is that the US system is rewarding graft/sloth/whatever – among many citizens and most LEGAL immigrants – or at least among those that frequented your college classes.
    That – plus the fact that most of California, where you are?, is so overcrowded and with so few actual job opportunities – that government programs and the resultant problems – are the most likely result, among the population you serviced.
    Just a thought, E.
    I’d like to hear what YOU think.
    ===========
    And you’re right, anti-soak, and I’ll quit now – – but, DAMN, what a waste of JHK bandwidth RI’s been doing on an otherwise finely gloomy Monday.

  230. Neon Vincent November 21, 2011 at 9:48 pm #

    Thank you. I have lots more on my home computer, which I’ll start posting later this week. After today’s events, I’m even more inclined to share them.

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  231. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 9:49 pm #

    Q, go back to your spreadsheets. All knowledge and wisdom can be derived from audit spreadsheets.

  232. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 9:54 pm #

    Asoka, thanks for the response.
    Well, it’s stupid to try and argue that things haven’t gotten better over the last 100 years in the narrow senses of 1st-world life expectancy, disease management, and a bidet in every affluent household; these are nominal advancements for a culture as keen with technology as ours. By the way, your earlier post said nothing of “things more important than money” to be considered when assessing quality of life, so I’m only questioning the selective use of economic statistics you’ve offered.
    I’m asking: do you deny the notion that prosperity and disparity are inexorably linked, insofar as Global Economics is presently understood, especially considering that a handful of cultures have advanced while others stagnate or decline?
    For example, there are far more adults and children dying of starvation and treatable diseases than there were 100 years ago, correct? There is no doubt the ability to reconcile this statistic, perhaps not the will; however, the resources and industriousness do exist like not 100 years ago. I will grant you that.
    These things can’t be dismissed as a trivial setbacks of basic economics. There is in my opinion, a deliberateness to the inequity, which seems obvious. You make apple and orange comparisons of the economic ups and downs of various nations, but their economies too can be argued to have been boosted by bubbles not yet burst, so your slippery slope positioning raises a lot of questions.
    You seem to have taken the merely contrarian position of martyrdom on this site.
    Thanks for clarifying.

  233. jpbikerfreak November 21, 2011 at 9:55 pm #

    Except that it wasn’t a prediction (he said things COULD go South, which is a possibility, not a prediction), and he didn’t say that it would happen in 3 days, he said there are 3 days worth of food in the supply chain. Did you actually even read the paragraph you pasted?

  234. progress2conserve November 21, 2011 at 9:55 pm #

    “You think people willing to die for the nation should be denied citizenship?”
    -asoka.-
    “immigrants are net job creators”
    -asoka-
    “I’ve advised you to ignore the troll”
    -anti-soak-
    Sorry, antisoak.
    Since he’s against the US military – It’s neat that asoka. wants immigrants to fill military positions.
    And since this peak-everything blog is dedicated to the end of the grow, grow, grow economy – It’s neat that the only justifications that asoka. has for US immigration are related to economic growth.
    Weird. And a waste of space.
    =======================
    On another note – –

  235. progress2conserve November 21, 2011 at 10:06 pm #

    On another note, and especially to you Australians-
    Out of all of the phenomenally expensive US military hardware that has been created and deliberately scrapped out – just a few years later.
    And out of all of the men whose lives have been sacrificed to the US military over the years since 1860. (including asoka’s proud and growing immigrant contingent)
    I believe that 2500 US Marines will form a very inexpensive and very low-stress asset on your continent.
    Their purpose is to serve as a liaison and a low visibility “trip-wire,” and that is all.
    Maybe you’d prefer 2500 Chinese Marines, instead.
    Give it time.

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  236. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 10:06 pm #

    And meaningless.
    I could just as easily say: “Things could go NORTH”
    (it’s not a prediction… I’m saying things COULD go North, which is a possibility, not a prediction)
    Just as meaningless… unless you muster some evidence to support the opinion you are expressing.

  237. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 10:19 pm #

    Korea : two US soldiers have been accused of raping local girls.
    Iraq: gang-rape of a 14-year-old girl by U.S. troops
    Oregon: Two U.S. Army soldiers accused of raping two teenaged girls in downtown
    Iraq: An American soldier yesterday pleaded guilty to the rape and murder of a 14-year-old Iraqi girl and the killing of three members of her family
    Washington: U.S. military personnel have been charged with acts of sexual violence toward local women
    USA Army: three things the guys let you be if you’re a girl in the military: a bitch, a ho or a dyke
    Japan: American soldiers are also said to have raped hundreds, maybe thousands, of Okinawan women
    Colombia: U.S. Soldiers Accused of Raping 12-Year-Old Girl in Colombia
    Hide your local women in Australia!

  238. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 10:27 pm #

    Thanks RHENRY,
    I’ve heard others on this site reference Nassim Nicholous Talebs Black Swan. It’s been some time since I read it, but he seemed to be poking fun at economists and analysts who plot stock market trends on a traditional Gaussian curve. He tried to argue, I think, that fractals are a better way for predicting potential outliers, which contradicted the very idea of a Black Swan event, anyhow. What say you?
    Aside from the agreed notion that the economy might just continue to peak and valley for 20-50 years, there’s a new dimension to all of these dire predictions that’s making people wonder more about a nearing collapse. That would be the increasing protests across the globe. In risking the logical fallacy of an appeal to the people: Are all these protesters, whether of the Western or Middle Eastern regions of the Earth just bat-shit crazy? Do their issues, the larger economic issues too, stem from shady banking practices along with Peak Oil claims? Can it be reasoned that these factors will conduce to an expedited collapse, not a forestalled one?
    Just interested in the opinions. Thanks for sharing?

  239. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 10:28 pm #

    ProCon said:

    I believe that 2500 US Marines will form a very inexpensive and very low-stress asset on your continent.

    Inexpensive? It is just as expensive as AFDC and Section 8 housing for immigrants, except immigrants create jobs and contribute to the economy. The GIs are just a drain with their free housing, free meals, free clothing, free transportation, free medical care, all paid for by us, the taxpayers.
    And, yes, they do take taxes out of my meager but hard-earned (pre-paid in 45 years of work) Social Security, to house soldiers in Australia and all over the globe. A waste of taxpayer money. The military should be cut in half, made more efficient, less wasteful, and stop being world police.
    If the Chinese wanted Australia, 250 US Marines are not going to stop them. China is smarter than to use overt force when they can simply gain control over the economy. As of May 2011 the largest single holder of U.S. government debt was China, with 26 percent of all foreign-held U.S. Treasury securities.

  240. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 10:31 pm #

    TPTB have their heat-seeking laser-guided sights trained on all Black Swans. A Nicholous Talebs Black Swan event will not be allowed to happen.

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  241. ABSALOM November 21, 2011 at 10:34 pm #

    That was funny. Predator drones on the look out for any off-colored swans. Holy shite!

  242. wagelaborer November 21, 2011 at 10:34 pm #

    You just have to link on my name.

  243. Pepp November 21, 2011 at 10:39 pm #

    Of course, it may appear to be inexpensive to you, progressive. I dont know. Au charges the going rate for all, although, I must admit, that 250 is one of the lowest contingents in recent times that has been allowed to rotate thru the training base, but whether that is due to the cost to the USA or other factors I am unable to say. Perhaps it is. Perhaps 250 is all the USA defence could afford, or maybe its all the AU training base could accomodate in 2013. Lots of nations defence forces rotate thru this base for training. Quite a queue.
    Of course , you mention the 2500, but you fail to see that number is not set in concrete and only falls due for consultation in 2017. 7 years from now. A lot takes place in 7 years, as, of all people, Americans should know. AU may, indeed, prefer 2500 Chinese marines by then, one never knows, does one. We might even prefer it sooner. You just never know.. .. Of the Chinese military that have rotated thru here for training, no adverse reports have come forth. I am sure, if there were, they would have.
    Asoka still has not figured out where this base is, an event of ignorance that leads him to believe it is in some suburban mall, but hey ho, believe me, I ‘d back the ladies of the Northern Territory any day. Any ladies that are near this base must be tougher than any marine , any soldier or specialist on the face of the earth.
    Lets just hope these USA marines get back to you safely, in good health, and sane, this is the fervent wish of all Australians, regardless of political perspective. And this is our mission. To return them to you in better nick than that which they arrived with. Which is what Americans have paid for, after all.

  244. progress2conserve November 21, 2011 at 10:53 pm #

    “I believe that 2500 US Marines will form a very inexpensive and very low-stress asset on your continent.- p2c-
    “Inexpensive? It is just as expensive as AFDC and Section 8 housing for immigrants, except immigrants create jobs and contribute to the economy.”
    -asoka., contributing human noise-
    do you even read what you write?
    2500 Marines cost as much as the US spends on AFDC and Section 8 for millions of LEGAL immigrants???
    And the planet destroying US economy needs to GROW some more?
    Sure, asoka.. Turkle’s right – whatever you say, the entire CFN thread may as well agree with.
    JHK, too. No point in writing his column every week. Just let asoka. write the thing.
    I’m out of here for a while.
    Thanks for making CFN more useless this Monday, and for always undercutting our host, who has the brains and the balls to actually write a weekly blog about peak resources.
    http://www.kunstler.com/blog/2010/07/my-tea-party.html
    Meanwhile, everyone watch this –
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0s8eKg2b8I
    And send money –
    Lest we die, and not live.

  245. Pepp November 21, 2011 at 10:54 pm #

    One of the main reasons that Mr Obama asked for this rotation of US marines thru this base was precisely because of the growing need to leave/depart/skedaddle/buggeroff/be gone/getout/of Okinawa, for the US.
    Due in part to the behaviour of US marines there, which has upset Okinawans to utter fury, a very stupid way of conducting oneself in such an important vector of US security. The phrase ‘ shootings one’s foot off’ comes to mind there.
    And of course, we are happy to oblige. Au has supported the USA for nearly a century, and I dont see any forseeable change in that. But we are in Asia, and China is our neighbor, and for that matter, a good one, to all intents and purposes. Screaming about China falls on deaf ears in AU, for very good and solid reasons. The sources that tell you to scream about China should be investigated a bit more thoroughly is the best advice I can give, no doubt rejected, but .. one does the best one can do.
    Great article, Jim . yet again.

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  246. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 10:54 pm #

    Any ladies that are near this base must be tougher than any marine
    ===============
    Yes, but the Marines seem to prefer to rape (or gang rape) 12, 13, and 14 year old girls, based on past experience in places like Korea, Okinawa, Colombia, etc.
    I hope your young women in the Northern Territory are kept safe. And if the Marines go on leave and do R&R in one of Australia’s cities, hide all the young women.

  247. Widespreadpanic7 November 21, 2011 at 10:55 pm #

    Well, made it thru another day actually with very little news from Europeans and their myriad economic issues. Instead the focus was on the failure of the ‘SuperCommitttee’ as if anyone expected anything from it anyway. So the Dow down about 250. What do you bet it goes up at least 250 tomorrow? The main interest around here today was the Giants losing to the Eagles! Also everyone is thinking about Thanksgiving and the impending Christmas season. The blue bus might be calling us, but ordinary citizens awareness of it, or interest in it, is practically nil. Show up at your local bar this week, tell the bartender to turn off the NFL broadcast on TV, and start talking about credit and banking collapse in Spain and Italy and how it might destroy American markets. You’ll likely get yer ass kicked!
    –WSP7

  248. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 10:59 pm #

    2500 Marines cost as much as the US spends on AFDC and Section 8 for millions of LEGAL immigrants???
    -============
    Yes, on a per capita basis. The Marines get all kinds of benefits the immigrants never get, unless they join the armed forces, as many have done.
    And thanks for your compliment. Happy to oblige!

  249. Pepp November 21, 2011 at 11:12 pm #

    Asoka. do you know where this base is? are you aware of the geographical and geophysical vectors of this area?
    do you even know the NAME of this base you seem so fixated about?
    You are aware, are you not, that this base has been operating for some time? quite some time, actually. 50 USA marines at a time have been rotated at various times thru it for a few years now. Did you know that? Do you know where the nearest civilian community is from this base? Is this the best you can come up with?
    Of course, nothing the AU authorites can do about US marines raping each other. That will be a matter for their superiors in conjuction with current AU law and judicial branches.
    There has been no provision for R and R activites. The protocol is in for training, back to USA bases. This is not a holiday. Their visa’s do not encompass any off base activity, and in fact are invalid, off base. Off base they become illegal immigrants and will be detained as per protocol. I am surprised you do not know this. I suspect you are living in the 70’s.
    Naturally, runners are to be expected, particularly from the US marine contingent. One Indonesian Naval Lieutenant tried it. Unsuccessfuly. A British Brigadier accidentally got lost and wandered off the area, hasnt been found since. But his bank balance hasnt moved either. Searches are still being conducted.

  250. Widespreadpanic7 November 21, 2011 at 11:24 pm #

    MaoMaoMao, message received.
    We wil be waiting for you, dug in on the California beaches, with redoubts in the Rocky Mountains and on the eastern shore of the Mississippi River.
    Or are you coming for us north from Canada and south from Cuba & Mexico?
    Is there a timeframe for that?
    –WSP7

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  251. Liquid Lennny November 21, 2011 at 11:26 pm #

    I was going to make some comment ’bout how the USA is going to invade Aussie land. After all if you look at a globe after knocking down a couple of quick beers it kinda looks like an upsidedown version of the US. I remember a skit by George Carlin did about how the Pilgrims kept asking the Indians to “move over, we’re bringin’ the stuff” and pretty soon we moved them nearly clear off the continent. Hey at Aussieland we wouldn’t even need to change the street signs. We could just move right in.
    But instead I came across George describing the “American Dream”.
    Boy, does he ever nail it…and are we ever.
    Here is George Carlin at his best:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
    It’s like we all suspected, we’re not part of “the club”. Well I say they can stick it, we’ll start our own club.

  252. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 11:27 pm #

    Thank you for that analogy showing just how irrelevant a Black Swan event would be.
    8.3% … Percentage of population who have diabetes
    0.00017% … Percentage of population who have diabetes and require amputation of both legs
    0% Percentage of population with diabetes requiring amputation of both legs in a building that catches fire
    Ipso facto, no need to worry about Black Swans.

  253. asoka. November 21, 2011 at 11:40 pm #

    do you even know the NAME of this base you seem so fixated about?
    =======================
    Gee, Pepp, I just kind of assumed that the marines would be at either the Larrakeyah Barracks or the Robertson Barracks in Darwin. As you probably know, Darwin has a population of about 128,000 and I’m thinking approximately half those are of the female persuasion.

  254. Qshtik November 21, 2011 at 11:49 pm #

    I dont see any forseeable change in that.
    ================
    Suggested re-wording of above:
    I don’t foresee any change in that.
    In any case, the two words I bolded are misspelled.
    The spell checker that comes loaded with Windows 7 is very out-of-date. It doesn’t even recognize the word bolded.

  255. Buck Stud November 21, 2011 at 11:58 pm #

    Thomas,
    If you look on the top of JHK’s site you’ll notice the word “Paintings”. From what I gather, JHK likes to hop on the bike with his French easel(probably a Julian; take a look at a Soltek, they’re expensive but worth it) and spend time in the great outdoors plein-air painting. It’s a beautiful addiction.
    ” He paints like a man skipping over the top of a hill, singing.” Robert Henri

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  256. Pepp November 21, 2011 at 11:58 pm #

    You’d be wrong then, asoka. Robertson is the Australian air force base. . it isnt the training base, which is where your blokes will be, where every other intertnational trainees are, which is at Bradshaw. Altough I am not surprised that you did a quick google and mistakenly came up with Robertson. A perfectly reasonable error, due to insufficient enquiry. The acronym BFTA ( Bradshaw field training area) should cover it.
    Bradshaw was once a cattle station, back in the 90’s and is about 870,000 hectares ( you can do the conversion yourself) near Timber Creek. It can land anything up to Globemasters, etc.
    get back to me when you check it out and find out where it is. Then we’ll talk your roaming 12yr olds at risk, ey?

  257. Qshtik November 21, 2011 at 11:59 pm #

    Effective today, having turned 3 score years and 11, I am on borrowed time, biblically speaking.

  258. Pepp November 22, 2011 at 12:03 am #

    You don’t think for one moment that the AU defence forces would be allowed to have odds and sods from all over the world training in Au NEAR A CIVILIAN POPULATION do you, asoka?
    are you NUTS?
    this might help…
    http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&cp=34&gs_id=2z&xhr=t&q=google+map+timber+creek+northern+territory&biw=838&bih=587&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&wrapid=tljp1321937808141028&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x2ca2f0b4a9df8a2d:0x40217a82a254130,Timber+Creek+NT&gl=au&ei=eCvLTvKGMuO0iQe2sbTgDg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBwQ8gEwAA

  259. San Jose Mom 51 November 22, 2011 at 12:13 am #

    Happy Birthday!

  260. Qshtik November 22, 2011 at 12:20 am #

    Ipso facto, no need to worry about Black Swans.
    =============
    Taleb asserts[6] in the New York Times:
    What we call here a Black Swan (and capitalize it) is an event with the following three attributes. First, it is an outlier, as it lies outside the realm of regular expectations, because nothing in the past can convincingly point to its possibility. Second, it carries an extreme impact. Third, in spite of its outlier status, human nature makes us concoct explanations for its occurrence after the fact, making it explainable and predictable.

    So Asoka, by definition a Black Swan has an extreme impact, whether positive or negative, and so the negative impacts are indeed something “to worry about.” Of course, we know that you don’t worry about anything, unlike the rest of us.

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  261. Qshtik November 22, 2011 at 12:22 am #

    Thanks, Mom.

  262. Buck Stud November 22, 2011 at 12:23 am #

    ABS,
    Personally, I don’t see any mass revolutions around the corner, although I would not be surprised if OWS is stronger than ever this spring. I just see people putting one foot in front of another trying to survive. It’s that descendents of the coffin ship mentality and even though turbulent waters are dead ahead most will seek solace in ways other than street violence. They are still too many believers in America. Take a look at the 8:00 minute mark in the below video as an example:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ugiufitm98

  263. asoka. November 22, 2011 at 12:24 am #

    Pepp, Bradshaw does seem remote. Perhaps your girls will be safe, though the people of garrison towns like Townsville and Darwin know all too well the social ills USA Marianes bring. The Darwin Centre Against Rape (Ruby Gaea) has found increased incidents of sexual assault during the visit of US Navy vessels to Darwin.
    Even after being charged with sexual assault, US military personnel have been free to leave the country. The US military has a long history of making its overseas personnel immune from local and international law, one of the reasons that the places where they concentrate become hotspots of violent and drug-related crime, as well as massive toxic waste and pollution.
    I don’t know if you are underestimating the libido of the USA Marines. I suspect you are trusting in the remoteness of the Bradshaw training area to defeat runners. Good luck with that! Timber Creek is only a quarter mile (500 metres) from those hectares you mentioned. About half the population of Timber Creek is probably female. And the population of Timber Creek itself increases during the tourist season.
    Thanks for edumacating me!

  264. asoka. November 22, 2011 at 12:28 am #

    Q said: “so the negative impacts are indeed something “to worry about.”
    ==============
    Right. I am delegating that job to you, Q.
    You are now in charge of worrying about what you admit are outlier events that may or may not be characterized as Black Swan events. I reserve the right to call it paranoia. Each to his own.

  265. anti soak November 22, 2011 at 12:45 am #

    SBPDL/Unamusement Park/Alternative Right sites:
    Black on white rapes a year in USA =30,000
    White on black female rapes a yr=ZERO

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  266. RHenry November 22, 2011 at 12:46 am #

    Fractals may indeed suggest the increased likelihood of a ‘black swan event’ collapsing the economy. Taleb’s argument that the system is so tightly wound that it is much more sensitive to unanticipated disruptions seems clearly to be the case.
    Nonetheless, Mandelbrot (theory of fractals)himself, when asked if it is just as possible a black swan event does not disrupt the system, basically said yes, everything is possible, everything is on the table – that is what makes predicting so difficult.
    Which was my point – the predictions here, by JHK and others, have not been good. Specifically, the time frames given for events to materialize just do not happen – rioting and pitchforks in the streets, the end of oil, the end of motoring, the collapse of the system, dow to 4000 by the end of the year, and on and on.
    The issues may be real but I don’t feel potential solutions to the issues(whether temporary band-aids or possibly more permanent) are given sufficient weight or analysis on this site.

  267. anti soak November 22, 2011 at 12:52 am #

    ‘There are far more adults and children dying of starvation and treatable diseases than there were 100 years ago, correct?’
    Some would argue with facts!
    I have read 1 to 10? million die a year from lack
    of water or lack of clean water.
    Many of these people are children.
    Also see my riposte above this in response to trolls rape ‘info’.

  268. ABSALOM November 22, 2011 at 1:08 am #

    Anti,
    There are plenty of folks tossing facts around. My point of contention with Asoka was just that. Factual cherry picking obfuscates many of the ideas behind the facts. But yes, I’ve heard stats similar to the numbers you’ve mentioned. And it’s no secret that these numbers will increase exponentially. The other day on msm, it was reported that the world’s population increased by over a billion from 1999 to 2011.
    More people, more babies, more unnecessary deaths due to concentrations of resource consumption at the top of the pyramid; say what you will about the politics and economics of such a phenomena. That wasn’t my point.

  269. ctemple November 22, 2011 at 1:16 am #

    My hat is off to progresso and anti soak who carried the red flag of sanity against asoka the last day or two. I don’t know how they keep it up, arguing with a lunatic. Endless arguing where one side is completely irrational doesn’t make for great reading.

  270. Pepp November 22, 2011 at 1:18 am #

    I am not sure you are factoring in the libido of the northern territory ladies, asoka. Or the NSW, VIc, WA or QLD ladies either, come to think on it. As I said, though, we hope to send each and every one of your 250 blokes home safe and sound after their training.. healthier, smarter and certainly sunburnt.
    what would be the general IQ of USA marines these days?? I ask, not out of purience, but its hard country and stupid wont help. Can they add? spell? latitude and longitude? Mathematics is essential in the outback, surprisingly. Would these be assumed qualities that I might have in relation to their capacities? And they’ll be doing all this upside down , and possibly inside out, too.. ..

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  271. ABSALOM November 22, 2011 at 1:24 am #

    RHENRY, thanks for clarifying.
    But I’d like to know where in the book, or from whatever forum, you gathered this perspective:
    “”Nonetheless, Mandelbrot (theory of fractals)himself, when asked if it is just as possible a black swan event does not disrupt the system, basically said yes, everything is possible, everything is on the table – that is what makes predicting so difficult.””
    Either your paraphrasing is terrible, your reading of the assertion made supposedly by Mandelbrot is inaccurate, or both. If in fact, a Black Swan has a null effect, then it is basically a non-event, thus there is no need to even use the term Black Swan.

  272. anti soak November 22, 2011 at 1:25 am #

    Found this somewhere today..Is it True?
    The EPA report suppression is not the only instance where the Obama administration tried to suppress information.
    A soldier at Fort Hood who videotaped the killing spree by Major Nidal Hasan was told by his commanding officer to delete the video. The soldier testified that a non-commissioned officer, acting on orders from an officer, was told to delete the video the same day of the shooting. Now why would anyone want to delete a videotaping of a live crime, wouldn’t it be a great piece of evidence at the trial of the shooter? Is the Obama administration trying to control the situation by controlling the information? No reason for that video to have been destroyed unless someone, somewhere high up the chain of command did not want to lose control of the situation, even if justice was not served in the process.
    Finally, consider an Associated Press report that appeared on October 6, 2010. According to the article and a finding by the commission appointed by the President to investigate the Gulf oil spill disaster, the Obama White House deliberately blocked efforts by government scientists to tell the public just how bad the oil spill could become. The article also reported that other missteps and incompetence were also suppressed by the Administration.

  273. Pepp November 22, 2011 at 1:38 am #

    It will be rather a shock to these libidinous US marines ( having escaped from BFTA, walked 200 kilometers from BFTA to the town of Timber Creek at any time of the year where the weather is , to state the least, destructive, along bush tracks with no access to water, and in dingo country) to find themselves at the great metropolis of Timber creek.
    Oh yes. ‘boys, boys, hey buddy, looky up the track, its Timber Creek!!. ‘…. they peer thru sweat and killing thirst, to see one hotel, 2 caravan parks, an undertaker and the general post office. Of course, I am assuming they make their run in the ‘DRY’.. as opposed to the ‘ WET” the only two seasons in the NT. If they try it in the ‘WET” they will not be found for 6 months. And not alive, either. And they wont be obvious, or standout, either, oh no. Sure.
    But forget all that, lets say they do it in the ‘DRY’.. if these US marines have the energy , and remaining limbs left after bashing thru 200 klms of saltbush, casuarina, razor grass and the incredible insect and reptile life to engage in any sort of sexual behaviour, consensual or not, we just might let them add to the gene pool. There are 7 ladies living permanently in Timber Creek and they havent managed to survive there without coping tools you probably have never even imagined.
    I just dont think you understand what the Northern Territory is, asoka. Googling stuff just doesnt cut it.

  274. ABSALOM November 22, 2011 at 1:50 am #

    Buck, I think I largely agree with your view that people just continue to place one foot in front of the other despite lurking threats; although, as someone demonstrated earlier today, there is such thing as a positive feedback loop that can push circumstances to a threshold in unpredictable ways.
    With this in mind, I recognize that the OWSer movement shares a certain solidarity with the Egyptian revolutionaries, who are now so angry with the continued dominance of the Mubarak era military, mass rioting is inevitable. While here at home, people are no longer buying the narrative coming from Washington and the consolidated news media.
    Yeah, the OWS protesters may turn in to revolutionaries if the alleged economic fear mongering coming from persuasive and articulate writers like JHK continues to meet their gaze. Sure JHK’s timeline has been iffy, but let’s not forget that he’s not making claims based on hard, scientific methodology, where strong data interpolation is imperative.
    JHK is more of a social science criticizer, in my view, and he’s criticizing the attempt of social-scientists, economists and the like, for believing they can beat natural law and nature’s math with economic trendiness, otherwise known as stimulus.
    Time will tell.

  275. observer November 22, 2011 at 2:15 am #

    If you’re really interested in Peak Bullshit and you want a good laugh, don’t miss the movie “The Yes Men.” It’s from 2003 but could have been made yesterday. The 2009 follow-up, “The Yes Men Fix the World” is also great. The extras on the DVD are also worth watching. The blurb on Netflix does NOT do it justice.

    The Yes Men have a website, http://www.theyesmen.org,> where you can find out how to become a Yes Man, should you so desire.

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  276. Eleuthero November 22, 2011 at 3:04 am #

    I’ll jump in here … I don’t think Taleb is mathematically doctrinaire that ANY system can beat the market. Surely he has condemned the quants and their statistically illegitimate assumption of Gaussian distributions … which ignores all of US market history.
    Even if Taleb didn’t exist, one can piece together truly extraordinary observations. The bulk of bull market gains or bear market losses tend to be strangely agglomerated in very narrow timeframes. Look at our averages in the US in the recent bear and bull markets. Though the drop in the DJIA started in December, 2007 and ended in March, 2009, a period of sixteen months, 77% of the net loss occurred in six months and the other 23% in the other ten months. Put maybe in a better light, 77% of the losses happened in 38% of the time and the other 23%
    of losses happened in the remaining 62% of the time. Similar numbers describe the bounce UPWARD after March, 2009.
    These figures are rather “par for the course”. Most of the time, meaning 70-80% of the time, markets do almost nothing but bounce around aimlessly resembling “Brownian motion”.
    Taleb feels that given the unpredictability of Black Swans, it’s madness to follow standard broker advice to keep 60-70% of your money “working” at all times when the market itself is doing NOTHING most of that time and is FULLY exposed to sudden instabilities. His investing theory is simplicity itself: Keep 90% of your money in absolutely safe, interest-bearing vehicles and use the other 10% to make RADICAL bets when historic benchmarks, on the upside or the downside, are radically violated.
    It’s disingenuous for brokers to talk about “average” 9% returns over time when there have been THREE periods in the last 82 years where your return was zero to negative for 14-25 YEARS!!! From 1929 to 1954 your nominal return was zero. From 1968-1982 your nominal return was -20%. From October, 1998 to present … 13 years … your return was zero. None of these numbers are inflation-adjusted which makes the 1968-1982 and 1998-2011 periods even worse than the nominal returns. That means that in FIFTY-TWO of the EIGHTY-TWO years since 1929, betting in the stock market was WORSE than putting it in a mattress. Thus, this “average” 9% return is one of the worst abuses of statistics in history.
    E.

  277. Eleuthero November 22, 2011 at 3:11 am #

    Addendum for Absalom: The arithmetic average as a measure of central tendency is ONLY justified if the data are in a Gaussian distribution. If they are not, then either MEDIANS or MODES are better measures of central tendency. But as my numbers above show, when your money is bleeding or doing nothing for 62% of market history with horrific volatility, why bother?
    A friend of mine says he is “street smart” which he defines as “Staying off of Wall Street”. Those guys are as bad as the Mississippi Company or Tulip Bulb salesmen only in this era they’ve been LEGITIMIZED as good guys in the print and electronic media. If 90% of the “financial service industry” vanished over night, this country would be one heck of a lot better off.
    E.

  278. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 4:16 am #

    Advaita is fine – mostly for Monks who can benefit from meditating on the World as unreal. They take the point of view of the Self. For the vast majority of people, that’s not helpful. Now when you hear women coming out of a “yoga” class talking about how they “worship themselves” do you really think it’s helping them? Or is in fact reinforcing the very thing that has to die?
    Compared to Kashmir Shaivism and the Shakti Tantras – Advaita is crude and cold. Shankara himself was a great Devotee who wrote hymmns to the Great Mother. His followers today mostly use Tantric Methods although they still honor him of course. These methods are far more accessible than his method of meditation – which only for a certain type among tiny minority to begin with.
    At his best, Shankara admits that Maya isn’t simply Illusion but is in fact, the Creative Power. Everything is Real – while it lasts, which may be just for an instant. But some things are more real (closer to Absolute Spirit) than others. That’s what we mean by “higher”. But all things are equally That since there is nothing else.
    The Religions of the Far East start with Illusion or the forgetting of our real identity. But they know that such forgetting leads to Sin and is reinforced by Sin – so they take up morality immediately after. The religions of the West start with Morality and Sin. I prefer the Eastern way, but morality is important and is dealt with either way. Some (many) can’t stand this and seek to distance spirituality from morality – sometimes by saying that they want Spirituality not Religion. They only fool themselves and others by twisting the words of the Masters.

  279. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 4:20 am #

    Yes pictures of Black soldiers are posted outside US Military Bases in Okinawa. The people are sick, sick, sick of the Black Rapists.
    In Japan, loudspeakers warn customers to beware when a Black enters a store. They know about Black Criminality and are not mentally castrated by PC as Whites are in America and Europe.

  280. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 4:26 am #

    Another Lie from the Illuminati – that one out of every four women are raped. Most of the women who are said to have been raped don’t consider themselves to have been. The criterion is complete bullshit – it’s been created just so they can say one out of four. This fuels the Feminism which is helping to destroy the West.

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  281. charliefoxtrot November 22, 2011 at 9:00 am #

    FUCK YOU…whether you like it or not and shut the fuck up, jackass- that statement is criminally stupid, beyond any of the fear- driven small mindedness of your rants about race or religion…it s samples of effluvia like yourself that poison life on earth why not just put a pistol in (and out, and in…) Your cocksucker, and put all the rest of us out of your misery…cur…

  282. xhalor November 22, 2011 at 10:04 am #

    “If 90% of the “financial service industry” vanished over night, this country would be one heck of a lot better off.”
    Now that sounds like some of that thar “karma” I keep hearing so much about.

  283. ABSALOM November 22, 2011 at 10:48 am #

    Eleuthero,
    Your post was a great explanation, and it stirred my recollection of Taleb’s book well. I think you demonstrated how Gaussian stats can be easily distorted, just the same as Taleb.
    I’ve discussed Taleb with a smart computer programmer before, and he found Taleb’s argument to be bang on regarding the shortcomings of Gaussian curves, but off when Taleb shifted toward a discussion of fractals as superior for determining outliers. The programmer I mentioned basically stated that a Black Swan is random and thus unpredictable; otherwise, it would be called a “Black” Swan.
    I’m seeing which voices on this blog have both the experience and practiced skill for sharing ideas. This is a great help to someone like me who has limited experience overall. Reading some of the comments can make you feel like your in a room with a lot of dead red herring being dragged about.
    Thanks,
    ABSALOM

  284. bossier22 November 22, 2011 at 10:48 am #

    I just hope your valuable relationship with China doesn’t turn into a Chinese occupation. I could see it happening.
    The best thing the US could do is start an organized withdrawal from the majority of it’s overseas bases.Many are holdovers from the cold war. Some the commitments were made by men who have been dead 50 years during a different reality.
    Personally, I dont’t give a damn what is happening in Somalia or Sudan. Five minutes after we leave Afghanistan it will be as if we were never there. Osama is dead along with a boatload of his friends. that”s about all we can do there.

  285. dale November 22, 2011 at 11:03 am #

    Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data, ability to repeat discredited memes, and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Also, be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor even implied. Any irrelevancies you can mention will also be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.
    ————————————-
    I had to admire this introduction to the comments section over at “The Big Picture”, which is BTW, one of the only finacial websites currently available which doesn’t seem to be grinding its axe into powder.

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  286. dale November 22, 2011 at 11:05 am #

    Yeah….I know he’s an asshole, but keep in mind, he’s a sick asshole.

  287. bossier22 November 22, 2011 at 11:08 am #

    More adults and children are dying of starvation and treatable diseases because there are incredibly more of them than 100 years ago. Less advanced societies were healthier when they were 70% smaller.

  288. dale November 22, 2011 at 11:10 am #

    Found this somewhere today..Is it True?
    ————————————–
    Gee….you found it “somewhere” so I guess it couldn’t be just a paranoid fantasy existing only in the mind of its poster. It’s on “the tubes” so I guess it’s true, No?

  289. xhalor November 22, 2011 at 11:14 am #

    Let’s see. Cause, effect, …and karma. I’ll mull that over. I’ve just about reconciled the Holy Trinity and Wall Street, the military, and the government. They’re also one and the same doncha’ know.

  290. dale November 22, 2011 at 11:19 am #

    “Only a few prefer liberty – the majority seek nothing more than fair masters” — Sallust, Histories
    ——————————————–
    Now, if you are looking for “enduring truth”, consider this was written about 2,000 years ago.

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  291. xhalor November 22, 2011 at 11:21 am #

    I wonder which polling service they used?

  292. ozone November 22, 2011 at 11:26 am #

    Ouch! That hurts.
    (And I don’t see a whole lotta evidence to refute that. Ouch, again.)

  293. dale November 22, 2011 at 11:39 am #

    the majority seek nothing more than fair masters
    ———————————-
    Yup….that would define the overwelming majority of the employees of corporate America I’ve met.

  294. ozone November 22, 2011 at 11:42 am #

    Boss to Pepp on Red/Yellow Menace:
    “I just hope your valuable relationship with China doesn’t turn into a Chinese occupation. I could see it happening.”
    I don’t think so, unless they’re pushed into a direct confrontation by militaristic assholes. (Naaaawwwww, who would do such a thing?)
    Anywhich, they seem to be capturing a hell of a lot more “flies” with financial promises (or blackmail) than with air strikes and assault rifles. This tactic is diametrically opposed to that of the-greatest-country-in-the-woild (with the smartest peeples too), and seems to be “working” better. Who knew it could be so easy? Diabolical, I tells ya. Promising future gains instead of death threats; enticements rather than aggression. Oh, those inscrutable little yellow folk; they’re after our pie, what’s given to us by da lawd got a’mighty!

  295. xhalor November 22, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    Last time we tried honey with the Afghans(?) didn’t they steal a $10 million “snitch” reward? Can we do anything right?

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  296. charliefoxtrot November 22, 2011 at 11:50 am #

    chuckle- and i have to wonder if they were the poles upon which those who wanted freedom were crucified: that would greatly reduce the number of “respondents” who said ‘yes’…

  297. ABSALOM November 22, 2011 at 11:59 am #

    “”More adults and children are dying of starvation and treatable diseases because there are incredibly more of them than 100 years ago. Less advanced societies were healthier when they were 70% smaller.””
    ====================================================
    Boss,
    Your using some relative terms that don’t really communicate your point, or, you don’t realize how inane your point is. Your reasoning is circular to boot.
    You essentially said, “because there are more people, more people will die on average than in the past.” Well, no shit Sherlock.
    Then you said, “Less advanced societies were healthier when they were 70% smaller.” What a keen observation, snore. And the reason is? Did they (the less advanced) have more or less access to what they needed to thrive? Anyhow, that was the road you were traveling, and I’ll leave ya to it.
    This is what you missed when you decided to comment on my discussion with someone else: There exist like not 100 years ago an industrious and harnessing of resources sufficient to remedy the problem of rampant starvation and disease spread, despite the tremendous increase in population size, but the consolidation of technology and expertise creates a lopsided effect for the whole of humanity. Certainly, we can argue that it is reckless to produce more and more hungry mouths just because we CAN feed them all, but that’s not my point.
    Economic ups and downs are not just merely natural, forgivable lapses in economic or human history.
    I do welcome your remarks, please just step up your game.

  298. dale November 22, 2011 at 11:59 am #

    I also like this excerpt from Umberto Eco regarding the qualities which distinguish emergent fascist thinking. I think it establishes why it is always on the political right, and cannot be conflated with socialism, as the simpleton Glenn Beck so loves to do. The key points:
    1. the cult of tradition
    2. rejection of modernism
    3. irrationalism – action for actions sake
    4. disagreement is treason
    5. fear of difference
    6. obsession with a “plot”
    7. followers must feel humiliated
    8. machismo – disdain for women and intolerance of non-standard sexual habits.
    9. Adoption of an improvised vocabulary, designed to limit critical thinking.
    Some of these are used by totalitarian systems of other stripes, some are unique to fascism.
    For the full article: http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_blackshirt.html?source=patrick.net

  299. charliefoxtrot November 22, 2011 at 12:00 pm #

    thing is, with modern psychological treatments, he could easily face whatever feelings for his mother that have obviously translated to mysogyny…vlad, it s not your mother s fault, nor is it yours: she left because your dad was sub-par genetically and could obviously not treat her with the respect she felt she deserved…get yer mind right, son, and while you re at it, what the hell is that dirt doin’ in my yard? fill in that ditch!

  300. xhalor November 22, 2011 at 12:02 pm #

    I always considered the “poles” to be the moral equivalent of heads on pikes.

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  301. lbendet November 22, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    E.,
    As I’m working today, I keep thinking about your clear and concise description of Taleb and the illusion of stock market trajectory.
    Of course, I believe everyone knows how it works, and much of the nonsense you hear from the financial class is just propaganda to get more people to invest in the market. They lie about the incentives for the average person to invest most of their money in a risk climate for a lifetime.
    Someday, even if you didn’t earn much through the years your nest egg will be huge. Just hang in there. How would the average person prove it works otherwise?
    Much the same can be said about the investment in houses and the non-stop upward value on which to borrow. Same trap with the illusion of gain.
    When they switched the economic system from demand-side to supply side and killed the interest rates at FDIC insured banks for savers, they also started lying about inflation.
    Keeping the cost of living increases artificially low and holding wages down, the illusion for the past 30 years has been to conceal the losses the middle class has taken and tricking them into believing that the stock market and globalism works for them.
    Cheap poisoned goods from China (most recently chicken jerky for dogs) really works while manufacturing keeps leaving our shores, but you know you have to keep going back to school where increases in tuition continue unabated.
    The more you hear about how rigged the system is from MF Global to the government–too tied up with the special interests to do their job, it’s no wonder that as with everything else, this system is only for those with the most advantage.
    How can anyone trust the system enough to invest anymore? The mattress sounds better and better all the time.

  302. xhalor November 22, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    “9. Adoption of an improvised vocabulary, designed to limit critical thinking. ”
    9a. Book Burning

  303. bossier22 November 22, 2011 at 12:33 pm #

    I know you must be super smart . And i have limited 3rd world travel experience. But from what I have seen, nothing can help the conditions I saw unless populations are reduced. Redistribution of wealth and technology would not make a damn bit of difference.

  304. bossier22 November 22, 2011 at 12:38 pm #

    I’m just saying, As our hubris is shrinking, their hubris is growing. You know what that leads to.

  305. wagelaborer November 22, 2011 at 12:48 pm #

    You know, I realize that this forum hosts people with differing opinions, and that it’s very difficult to change people’s opinions.
    But it’s aggravating to point out a factual error, and have it completely ignored.
    Sex and reproduction can be separated. Fucking need not inexorably lead to babies.
    Reducing the world’s population does not mean convincing people not to have sex.
    To pretend that the human sexual drive must necessarily lead to 7 billion people and more, and that we are helpless in the face of it, is disingenuous.

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  306. wagelaborer November 22, 2011 at 12:56 pm #

    Good reply, Ozone.
    It always amazes me when the residents of the most heavily armed and belligerent country in the world point to others, who haven’t invaded other countries in centuries, and accuse them of sinister motives.
    I guess it goes along with the firm belief that US soldiers are just spreading joy and cheer wherever they go. And democracy.

  307. wagelaborer November 22, 2011 at 1:09 pm #

    When the social safety net is shredded, people turn to individualist solutions, from stocking up on beans and ammo, to investing in 401Ks, hanging onto the belief that they can somehow personally survive the cataclysm.
    As I pointed out at an Occupy meeting I attended on Sunday, in 1995, when Orange County’s pension funds were lost by gambling in the stock market, it was considered shocking. The manager lost his job.
    Now, it’s considered de rigeur. Our city’s pension funds are invested in the stock market, and any losses are to be made up by the taxpayers, who are also losing their 401Ks.
    I pointed out that the reason that Wall Street managers are doing so well is that they are STEALING from pension funds. There is no way that your pension fund will grow when it is being stripped for their profits! We need to invest in our community, not Wall Street.
    On another note, Obama is sternly lecturing the gang of 12, the unconstitutional supercommittee, about not coming up with cuts in the federal budget. He causally threw in Medicare as something that would have to be cut.
    Why? Anyone can look at their paycheck and see that Medicare and Social Security are funded separately from the federal budget.
    So Obama is lying. Again. And no one calls him on it.
    It’s maddening to live in a country in which lies and absurdities are pronounced repeatedly, until everyone accepts them as truths.

  308. xhalor November 22, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    Wait a minute. An article on fascism? Dale, are you Vlad? If not, I apologize. If you are Vlad, then BE VLAD. I thought everything in America was set up so that you can come on here to BE VLAD. What’s a Sopwith Camel without the Fokker (triplane)? The same goes for Muslims. Don’t chicken out and change your rules just to live in the US. If it works, it works. If it doesn’t, there is always France. Don’t be like the Christians. The Newer Testament, Third Edition. On Sale for the holidays at bookstores everywhere!

  309. illstu November 22, 2011 at 1:17 pm #

    Where does the money go? In the end, shiny metal is just shiny metal. Prime Illinois farmland is now fetching about $12,000 an acre. The curve is way up the hockey stick blade, heading straight up.

  310. bossier22 November 22, 2011 at 1:41 pm #

    AS I stated earlier, I”m for closing the majority of our overseas bases. Many of the old cold war bases are now irrelevant. And in many places we are wasting time, money and our soldiers lives.
    And I could care less about the spread of democracy. Just a smoke screen anyway.

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  311. dale November 22, 2011 at 1:43 pm #

    Charlie,
    The reason why I TRY to go easy on Vlad is that I DO regard his thinking as a type of moderate mental illness. It is a type that breaks out periodically in humanity, much like a severe flu attack (Germany in the 30s). It isn’t necessarily fatal, and the extent of the damage can vary, but it is clearly pathological. Likewise, it isn’t so severe that the person is necessarily raving, as everyone here can see Vlad is intelligent and rational…..at times.
    I’m not suggesting Vlad should be institutionalized (provided he hasn’t done anyone any physical harm, including himself). I think the best way to deal with this sort of anti-social mental illness is simply to offer counseling and reinforce the clear and present reality that such thinking is not in his, or anyone else’s, best interest.
    Unfortunately, as a society we don’t value healthy and happy people that much, (just productive and useful) so there is no capacity for this sort of careful and patient counseling. What I am concerned about is any behavior on our part which will exacerbate his problems. When a flu patient has a fever and is hallucinating, you don’t try to argue him out of his hallucinations, that would only worsen his distress.
    As objectionable as his warped thinking is, I’m trying to remind myself (repeatedly) that arguing about it with him only suggests that it is something other than pathology, which it is not.

  312. ABSALOM November 22, 2011 at 1:47 pm #

    Boss, thanks for continuing the dialogue. I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer, the more we converse the more it will become clear that I’m more a student than a professor.
    First, I’d like you to consider dropping the highly politicized opinion of “wealth re-distribution.” It implies that anyone talking about the need to share technology and generate efficient access to the necessities of life for all is summarily out to take one’s personal property and give it away to others. This isn’t about a Robin Hood complex, nor is it about Communalism or Communism or Socialism. Those are all defunct social ideologies, and so is Capitalism. These are out-dated ways of thinking which keep people engaged in political quackery.
    Next, I won’t try to dazzle you with numbers, there are plenty here who confuse themselves with obtuse statistics. But consider for a moment that “advanced” civilizations consume much greater amounts of “things” than are necessary. Even if we as a species wish to maintain our appetite for opulence, it is entirely possible to ensure all others can too. Note that opulence is different to me than wastefulness.
    The brain-product of only a small handful of real geniuses that have existed on this planet has allowed billions of complete dummies like me to enjoy a lifestyle never imagined 100 years ago. My main contention is that the lopsidedness of present economic structures is not due to a lack of materials. At least not yet, as resources are finite, especially with how they are wasted now, and human population will run into the wall if the status quo continues. Every civilization has faced natural law and lost, regardless of what historians tell you about the quality of their politics and economics.
    Take care.

  313. ABSALOM November 22, 2011 at 1:50 pm #

    Pardon me,
    I’m just wondering who argued the position you’re railing against? Or are you just brain farting?

  314. bossier22 November 22, 2011 at 1:58 pm #

    You seem pretty proffessorial on that last comment. And I could not agree more. How could it pragmatically be accomplished? That is the main reason I have a negative attitude toward human ability to make something that big happen.

  315. ABSALOM November 22, 2011 at 1:58 pm #

    E, just a small correction:
    “The programmer I mentioned basically stated that a Black Swan is random and thus unpredictable; otherwise, it would be called a “Black” Swan.”
    Should read:
    “The programmer I mentioned basically stated that a Black Swan is random and thus unpredictable; otherwise, it [wouldn’t] be called a “Black” Swan.”
    Regards

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  316. ABSALOM November 22, 2011 at 2:09 pm #

    Boss,
    I totally share that sentiment. My pessimism about the prospect of the human species is totally what brought me to a blog like JHK’s.
    The simple answer is education. I know of an autodidact whose thoughts on education are second to none, in my view. Check out this dialogue between a guy named Paul Lutus and a dickish reader.
    http://www.arachnoid.com/reader_exchanges/education.html
    Cheers.

  317. bossier22 November 22, 2011 at 2:22 pm #

    Well , I’m working on digesting that article.

  318. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 2:40 pm #

    You really think one out of four women has been raped? Or is he angry about what I said about Advaita? Remember if men are scum, that means you too preppy. Don’t try to abstract yourself out asswipe. Drink your own poison for a change punk.
    Any changes of heart (repentance) about your mockery of the Pygmies being killed and eaten by Blacks?

  319. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 2:44 pm #

    Elderly Orthodox Monks often practice death by sleeping in their own coffins. You might want to start. Some saints are incorruptible – combine this with sleeping in coffins and the vampire myth was given a big boost.

  320. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 2:48 pm #

    No for once Dale is not being a dick. He actually used the words Fascism and Totalitarianism correctly. Communism is Totalitarian not Fascistic. Fascism is not just a word meaning “bad”. It’s its own politcal system.

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  321. xhalor November 22, 2011 at 2:49 pm #

    I personally am not convinced that screen persona “Vlad” is mentally ill. And this is not the first time I’ve defended that person. I would not presume to know, but I really question the validity of an “on-line” diagnosis in a forum like this one.

  322. wagelaborer November 22, 2011 at 2:58 pm #

    That wasn’t really directed just at you, Bossier.
    We are seeing hysterical accusations in the corporate media now against both China and Iran, neither of which has invaded neighbors for decades or centuries.
    Unlike the USA.

  323. xhalor November 22, 2011 at 2:58 pm #

    “…practice death by sleeping in their own coffins. You might want to start.”
    You did not just say that to Q. WTF? Should I recant?

  324. wagelaborer November 22, 2011 at 3:00 pm #

    Well, prog, I ignored the latest terrorist threat, assuming that it was an FBI sting, like all the rest.
    http://www.salon.com/2010/11/28/fbi_8/
    But on Democracy Now today, they said that even the FBI didn’t want to get involved in this particular entrapment. Wow. That’s saying a lot.

  325. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 3:06 pm #

    Hey Chuckles, why don’t fox trot off the edge of the flat earth you inhabit? Not everything you read or hear the news is true you know. Feminists are liars and men have been dupes to believe them. Remember how they used to pretend that Thanksgiving was a day of carnage and rape as men drunk on beer and football reacted with bestial rage when their team lost – or won? They stopped not because they were wrong or felt guilty, but because they realized they had gone over the top and were becoming ridiculous.
    Start here, dupe:
    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100806162305AAUzbhN

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  326. wagelaborer November 22, 2011 at 3:06 pm #

    More than one person upthread proclaimed that it was impossible to control population because sex is a biological drive.
    I guess you’ll have to go back and reread it.

  327. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 3:11 pm #

    No you are you and Q is Q. Q knows my mentality and will not take offence. He knows that he is going to die. You obviously don’t know that you are going to do the same.
    How can you know life and ignore death? I advise you to start visualizing corpses as the Buddhist Scriptures advise. Different kinds of corpses for different mentalities. Lusties visualize green bloated corpses for example. Greedy people use skeletal ones. I’ll look into it if you describe yourself and tell you the right one to use.

  328. Qshtik November 22, 2011 at 3:15 pm #

    And I could care less about the spread of democracy
    ===============
    He meant to say couldn’t care less.

  329. bossier22 November 22, 2011 at 3:16 pm #

    I guess I’m being mr. oversensitive today. My wife says that I think everything is about me. like most guys.

  330. ABSALOM November 22, 2011 at 3:17 pm #

    Oh, I follow you now. And I agree with you that it is necessary to divorce the act of sexual enjoyment from rudimentary procreative drives.
    Incidentally, I believe this responsibility should land on the shoulders of men. At least in the sense that it is much easier for us men to practice birth control than women. Unfortunately, female reproductive responsibilities are emphasized over men’s practices in most discourse.

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  331. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 3:18 pm #

    Don’t feel bad – I was in my 30’s before I found out that Fascism was an actual political system and not just a synonym for Totalitarianism. Our Professors are scum; just hacks dancing for their dinners teaching whatever they’re told to teach.
    They are Mandarins, the hired intellectual guns of the Elite. In Law School they’re trained to argue one point of view and then argue the other opposing one. The Truth doesn’t matter – if it exists, it is unknowable. They are the Sophists so hated by Plato and Socrates.
    Some actually do believe what they teach: the Leftists. And they are even more dangerous since they warp young idealistic minds even more. And they are willing to lie and obfuscate too – it’s just as natural to them as breathing. Combine these two types and you have the nightmare of “higher” education.

  332. xhalor November 22, 2011 at 3:22 pm #

    nKAY. Q just posted and he ain’t trippin’. As for DEATH, dude, combat vet. I don’t have to “visualize” the corpses.

  333. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 3:24 pm #

    And 90% of the pleasure departs. Absalom, Oh Absalom! You strain the gnat yet swallow the camel of Feminism.
    Don’t forget to use a dental dam when you go south. Men are dying from Oral Sex (HPV) but the hetero part was left out. Taste of rubber – so gooood!

  334. xhalor November 22, 2011 at 3:26 pm #

    The only thing I felt bad about was the possibility of you unnecessarily concealing your identity.

  335. dale November 22, 2011 at 3:35 pm #

    Any changes of heart (repentance) about your mockery of the Pygmies being killed and eaten by Blacks?
    —————————————-
    Vlad, I wasn’t mocking their genocide, I was mocking your crocodile tears regarding it.

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  336. ABSALOM November 22, 2011 at 3:38 pm #

    Look, shit for brains. I’ve purposely refrained from a dialogue with you in recognition that you are not interested in discussing ideas, just trading vacuous opinions generated from your lifetime of fact collecting.
    Your comments to others border on threats of physical hostility, so I’m going to respond in kind to you only once with a similar tenor. If meeting you in person, I would hand to you your ass and also offer to you an endless platter of knuckle sandwiches. You’re an an inimical blog site dingle-berry, not even a troll. A lingering piece of shit around JHK’s asshole, and I’m surprised he hasn’t cut you off.

  337. dale November 22, 2011 at 3:39 pm #

    You really think one out of four women has been raped?
    —————————————-
    Let me see…..including women, that brings the total of humanity that are your enemies to what?…..about 95% or so? If that isn’t pathology I don’t know how you would define it.
    Maybe it hurts Vlad, but it’s true.

  338. xhalor November 22, 2011 at 3:44 pm #

    How weird. I’ve always wanted to and never had a chance to tell someone about an article I recently (within a year) read in the National Geographic about the Pygmies. It seems that the remaining few have consciously decided not to reproduce. Their “leader” said “We’re no good anymore.” Their health is poor and they’re tired of being picked on. The pictures showed people with gnarly goiters. It is one of the saddest things I’ve ever heard.

  339. dale November 22, 2011 at 3:48 pm #

    Fascism is not just a word meaning “bad”. It’s its own politcal system.
    —————————————
    Not buying Vladdie, Fascism is a right wing form of totalitarianism. It’s totalitarianism for the corporatists. Communism is totalitarianism for the socialists. In practice…they both suck.
    The Fascists always manufacture enemies, the instigators of the mythical “plot” against them, then of course, they must be exterminated. The more powerful they become the more enemies that need extermination. They are only benign in relation to their weakness.
    Communism is, I think less a mental disease in that it actually has a rational basis, it just becomes totalitarian in practice.
    That’s what pathology looks like Vlad, a constant need for creating and destroying faux enemies.

  340. bossier22 November 22, 2011 at 3:55 pm #

    “We’re no good anymore” That is the saddest thing I have ever heard too. I’ll have to go back and find that article.A people giving up on their existence.

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  341. Eleuthero November 22, 2011 at 4:00 pm #

    Yup, Xhalor, karma (a.k.a. “payback”) is always a bitch and if history is any guide societies tend to OVERSHOOT with retribution just like they overshoot with adulation. This means that when the final set of disillusionments and feelings of being swindled come about you might see these financial industry maggots being caned in public and stripped of their wealth. Stranger things have happened.
    E.

  342. dale November 22, 2011 at 4:01 pm #

    I personally am not convinced that screen persona “Vlad” is mentally ill. And this is not the first time I’ve defended that person. I would not presume to know, but I really question the validity of an “on-line” diagnosis in a forum like this one.
    ——————————————
    You sort of missed my point Bud. I was using mental disease AS his defense. To my way of thinking, to be that fucked up without being mentally ill would necessitate a kind of spritual flaw beyond redemption, I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.
    Formally of course, I’m not able to diagnosis mental illness, online or off. However, there are certain things which are difficult to deny just based on the empirical evidence. I think Vlad has given us considerable empirical evidence that all is not well. That is why I listed the traits of Fascism. That is not a laundry list of a healthy mental view.
    Otherwise, I did list a textbook definition of O/C ideation, which he veers off into quite frequently. So….make your own judgement, mental illness is, I think, a continuum.

  343. xhalor November 22, 2011 at 4:06 pm #

    “you might see these financial industry maggots being caned in public and stripped of their wealth.”
    Man, I gonna start taking better care of myself starting now (drains last of the Johnnie Walker), cause if there is ANY possibility of the above happening, I damn sure want to see it.
    Best Wishes,
    Ralph Nader

  344. Eleuthero November 22, 2011 at 4:07 pm #

    You are welcome, Absalom. Actually Gaussian inferential statistics are abused not just by financiers but also by social science and medical researchers. They’ll run such statistics on very, very small and NOT randomly picked samples quite often. The first, and most difficult, job of any researcher doing statistics is SUPPOSED to be to find out if his sample does or does not represent a certain population base. They virtually NEVER do.
    E.

  345. charliefoxtrot November 22, 2011 at 4:08 pm #

    you dipshit! did you think i wouldn t go to the link; put it up for posture? i still can t figure why you thought they backed your point up…anyway, i grow tired of you, so fuck off i leave you with the idea that you might get laid, with her permission, and even- gasp what a concept!- active & enthusiastic participation, by treating women with only a modicum of respect and tenderness…which would go a long way towards raising your self image; in turn raising the standards of your own comportment towards, and interaction with the rest of us- getting you even more laid and that makes you even more likable…any way, see where i m going with this? it is up to you to get started; once you have done so, we all benefit until then, see above…

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  346. dale November 22, 2011 at 4:08 pm #

    Or more properly, mental “health” is continuum…and where exactly it crosses the line depends on what, and from where, you are observing.
    In Nazi Germany, Vlad would be considered a paragon of society, I guess. Except for the fact they regarded his race as parasites and vermin unsuited for anything but grunt work.
    ….and when you worship those who regard you as scum, that is self loathing in anyone’s book.

  347. Eleuthero November 22, 2011 at 4:15 pm #

    Even the FED, not just brokers, are trying to FORCE people into risk assets with the ZIRP (zero interest rate policy). This policy is another indignity being heaped on the America people. Even if your FICO score is 800, your credit card interest rate now is about 16% while the banks get to borrow from the Fed at ZERO PERCENT. I would submit that even with all the personal delinquencies and defaults, the common working man in America is FAR, FAR better at managing his/her money than the TBTF banks have.
    ZIRP is just another trick to try to prop up our last “pride and joy” i.e., the stock market. Personally, I won’t fall for it because I see the risk/reward picture as about 15% upside and 60% downside. I’ll take my one percent and sleep.
    E.

  348. charliefoxtrot November 22, 2011 at 4:23 pm #

    try stripped of their skin and fed to the dogs in public…and that wouldn t be overshoot for the vast majority of them, IM not so HO…though i can see how, compared to how well we ve let them treat themselves, it might seem a little extreme to the banksters…ungrateful even, considering we DID let it go for 15,000 years or so…

  349. xhalor November 22, 2011 at 4:31 pm #

    I just read in someone’s (…here?) blog recently that “Get A Job” has become the new “Let Them Eat Cake”. I thought it was cute until I realized how often I had heard it recently. Right at that moment, I looked at the TeeVee just in time to see that reptile Newt say it. Oh man, hold me down.

  350. charliefoxtrot November 22, 2011 at 4:36 pm #

    yo wage, i meant to thank you earlier for the link to joe bageant as a southern man with many of his apparent sensibilities, his essays so far resonate…i too rejected racism as counter-productive and well, unscientific, for example i am looking forward to perusing the archives, and eventually his books and re your blog- keep up the good work; i ll be lurking…

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  351. ABSALOM November 22, 2011 at 4:37 pm #

    E,
    I don’t come across many people with the grasp of scientific methodology you possess. This is especially frustrating as I often converse with social-scientists, who seemingly believe the scientific method can be applied “softly” to experimental design. In other words, the loosey goosey application of experimental methodology in social studies produces a vast array of theories based more on traditional viewpoints rather than interpolated evidence. This feels like the infusion of science and rhetoric — what a disaster.
    I strikes me that the vast majority of people don’t recognize this, as when you examine usual blog conversations, people cite an amalgam of opinion based material from the various ideological theories they’ve come to fancy from their years of collecting facts organized by their favored authority figures.
    One very bright autodidact I’ve met once wrote, “No amount of scientific eminence trumps scientific evidence.”
    You remind me of that guy.
    Regards

  352. charliefoxtrot November 22, 2011 at 4:42 pm #

    sorry, let us turn down the creep factor: i look forward to reading said blog with interest…yeah that looks alot better in print!

  353. xhalor November 22, 2011 at 4:48 pm #

    Guess the detectives in that nondescript car down the street can go home now.

  354. myrtlemay November 22, 2011 at 5:01 pm #

    Jeez, maybe you guys should get a room 😉

  355. myrtlemay November 22, 2011 at 5:07 pm #

    You’re right about the zirp policy which makes your $ go “poof…it’s gone!” And people are still dumb enough to ask what the owsers problem is.
    I don’t know what the average credit card interest rate is for most folks, but mine is 6%, I think. I pay my balances off each month, so it doesn’t affect me anyway. 16% is god awful, especially when the banks are paying 1/4% to 2%interest on cds. May they all rot in hell.

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  356. myrtlemay November 22, 2011 at 5:10 pm #

    Amendment to above…Investing your $ in stocks and other “investment vehicles” makes it go “poof”. Placing it in a savings account makes it sloowlly disappear with respect to your buying power (little necessities like food, heat, and electricity tend to slowly eat away at it).

  357. ABSALOM November 22, 2011 at 5:11 pm #

    A little too much deference, eh MYRTLE?
    Never fear, you may one day say something intelligent and someone will reserve a motel room for you.
    Keep dreamin’, babe.

  358. myrtlemay November 22, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    One of the biggest howls I got this week was a quote from some big investment firm, “85 is the new 65!” Yeah, right. That’s about as silly as the often heard quote, 60 is the new 40. Please let me know of any of you out there who have reached the age of 60 plus and can HONESTLY say you feel and look as good, are as energetic, etc. as you were when you were 40. Like the song says, “it ain’t me, babe”.

  359. myrtlemay November 22, 2011 at 5:36 pm #

    Don’t hold your breath waiting for me to say something intelligent. My teachers gave up on that long ago ;0)

  360. anti soak November 22, 2011 at 5:39 pm #

    Maybe thats code fer ‘Retire and get SSI at 85’

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  361. lbendet November 22, 2011 at 5:50 pm #

    I’ll take my one percent and sleep.
    E.
    I took my money out of mutual funds before the 2008 crash and found a 5.5% interest rate somewhere for 5 years. So I’m fine for now, but after the 5 years it will be a very low. The same bank brags that they are 5 times higher than all the other banks a whole.7%. And we’re supposed to be thrilled with that.
    I too am glad to be off the roller coaster!

  362. anti soak November 22, 2011 at 5:51 pm #

    Such diagnosis is called ‘Scapegoating’.
    Scapegoating is the practice of singling out any party for unmerited negative treatment or blame!

  363. anti soak November 22, 2011 at 5:53 pm #

    1. the cult of tradition
    2. rejection of modernism
    3. irrationalism – action for actions sake
    4. disagreement is treason
    Sounds like a script from various Tibetan Buddhist
    uh, groups.

  364. IxNoMor November 22, 2011 at 6:07 pm #

    “Like someone said earlier, they are focused on minutiae (trees)…, and are not seeing the forest. ”
    Heh, you just made me laugh, Soker. I hope your acreage down there in South America isn’t of the clearcut, concreted, leached sort, right alongside a completely silted river, contaminated by mine/oil runoff…
    ~40 days to go, before year’s end, and we measure the hottest global temperature on record. And, ad nauseum, ~400 days until the next global temp record coinciding with the solar max (12/21/2012), and another ~770 days until the next, with another ~5 years or so wobbling at/above that solar max peak global temperature. Seen the massive midwest floods going on this week? How about the incoming east coast icy/snow storm? My friend in NC keeps telling me about how it’s been 70’s and sunny for weeks. Maybe Tripp can verify this for GA? Wonder if the freeze will mess with citrus crops in FL?
    Just keep believing in your ETF’s, naked shorts, derivatives, collateralized debt, microsecond trades, and that monthly SS check. Some say MAGIKAL manifestation results from the power of belief – if it continues to work out for you, maybe you should direct your belief towards other, more worldly endeavors (make it so, numbah 1)…

  365. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 6:09 pm #

    All religions? Inlcluding the Pharisees who killed Christ and whose teachings you follow?

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  366. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 6:22 pm #

    So forced redistribution of wealth is Ok in theory – only the practice of it is bad? Oh Dale, you are such a bullshit artist! You are a doppleganger who meets himself coming and going. Have you thought about running for office? Demcracy was made for two and three faced strangers to themselves like you.
    Fascism believes in private ownership, business, the market – it only demands that these be conducted honorably. Of course, that means tariffs, the dreaded T word so hated by current economists. Now if all these low lifes hate something that much, it has to be good, it just has to be.
    Free trade isn’t free. The only way Americans can compete with coolie labor is by becoming coolies themselves. Europe and China have enforced “unfair” (good for them) trade on us for decades. They refrain from calling them tariffs so as not to give the game away to American Sheeple. Our shepherds insist on this much at least. They have gone to alot of trouble conditioning the masses to a T and they don’t want any Euro Snobs messing up their work of art, the American Sheeple.

  367. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 6:25 pm #

    So to get along with women a man has to accept that he is inferior to them morally? No thanks Dupe/Slave. I’ll let you have all the “fun”.

  368. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 6:28 pm #

    You are a coward but at least a humble one. You are not too smart and you know it. Congrats, you have been sucessfully conditioned.

  369. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 6:33 pm #

    Whites are doing the same thing – guilt tripped into opening their borders and letting the browns have all the babies while they pay for them. You should be even sadder about that – but you don’t see it. It’s too close. It’s hard to convince the fish about the existence of the ocean.
    Meanwhile, hard core Lefties like Dale not only know about it, they’re happy about it. Tibetans have a right to exist in his book, but Whites do not.

  370. IxNoMor November 22, 2011 at 6:54 pm #

    “Since JK failed so miserably at his prediction of Y2K disaster (ie there was none. THAT was embarrassing)”
    Wow! How soon people forget the internet bubble, the Enron/Tyco/WorldCom fraud fiascos, and 9/11…
    Besides, I don’t remember JHK hawking on Y2K – that was way before my time with him here. Did he rant about the 8 bit hardcoded date thingy? I remember 2-3 years prior to Y2K, lots and lots of software engineers rewriting cryptic/outdated COBOL/Fortran/Pascal/C code. I expected a few hickups myself, but nothing major – years were spent preparing for this.
    The *NO HOPE, NO CHANGE* thang, that Soker so vehemently believes in, still rubs me the wrong way, 3 years later. I expect Soak-puppet to start “babbling on” about that credit card reform and healthcare reform, that were completely in the interests of his corporate lobbyists/sponsors. How about Gitmo/3 ongoing wars? What a joke – I think we need a 50K personnel base in Aussie-land, to complement all of our other bases in Japan/Korea/Vietnam/Germany/Iraq/Afghanistan/etc/ad-nauseum!!!
    I hear salmon farms are toxic, due to all that anti-bacterial/anti-viral poison (penicillin anyone?) that goes into their tanks/groundwater… Methinks I’d rather chew on depleted uranium warheads (I hope the Iraqi/Afghani/Paki “terrorists” have gathered those up, and ground them down into dust, for dirty bombs – serves *US* right, dropping that toxic sh!t there, and not cleaning it up ourselves).

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  371. asoka. November 22, 2011 at 7:01 pm #

    “Feminists are liars and men have been dupes to believe them.”
    ===============
    Vlad, men can be feminists. I am a feminist, not duped. Women hold up 50% of the sky, Vlad.

  372. RHenry November 22, 2011 at 7:05 pm #

    …what Mandelbrot “supposedly” said:
    OK, here you go:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLFkQdiXPbo
    10 minute video, Mandelbrot and your guy Taleb (they mention at the start of the video that Taleb considers Mandelbrot to be his ‘mentor’).
    It is a good video from back in 2008, however, if you don’t care to listen to it all, the part about Mandelbrot saying the black swan event could simply right itself, and that anything is possible, and that predicting the future is very difficult …starts at 9:30 into the video and goes till the end

  373. mika. November 22, 2011 at 7:07 pm #

    All religions? Inlcluding the Pharisees who killed Christ and whose teachings you follow?
    ==
    All religions!
    Btw, Jesus was a Pharisee who was crucified for the POLITICAL crime of insurrection against Roman rule. The Roman installed quisling High Priest was a Sadducee. Paul of Tarsus was a Roman agent attached to the Sadducee High Priest mafia brigade. You will not understand these details reading the deliberately misleading lies of the Vatican called the “New Testament”. But then, I know you’re not even interested.

  374. mika. November 22, 2011 at 7:35 pm #

    whose teachings you follow
    ==
    I don’t. And I think those that do are idiots. But you already knew that. Though the charge of a “Christ killer” would make such a convenient excuse for another genocide. I know you’re already salivating at the prospect, you disgusting blood vulture.

  375. Buck Stud November 22, 2011 at 7:50 pm #

    I don’t think Vlad will be ascending any tall towers with a mighty rifle anytime soon – the thorn in his paw won’t allow it.
    Only a woman is going to be able to remove it, and maybe she’ll change that George Jones song when she does.

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  376. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 8:05 pm #

    Watch Dale get out in front of the Pygmy issue if the thread picks up. That’s his whole operating principle: see which way the crowd is marching and then try to run up to the front. And try not to seem out of breath – a natural liberal politician.
    Nice one over on Prog btw. Apologize but never giving in on the issue you guys were fighting about – the magic number of optimum Americans. Or are you still an “Asokean”!

  377. IxNoMor November 22, 2011 at 8:09 pm #

    “Wow. Too much Fox News?”
    You apparently haven’t been here long enough to realize who the Soker really is. He is the *penultimate* master-debator, willing to flip sides on a dime (penny?), faster than Newt or Mitt. This guy still lives in his cardboard boxes, full of high-school debate material, stacked 3-4 tall, reliving his high school daze of state debation (more like deprivation)! He’s a 30-year-old Jew, pretending to be a 60-year-old black – always inconsistent, yet always arguing for the *opponent* in every argument he can *MUSTER*…

  378. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 8:11 pm #

    You don’t believe in the God of your Fathers – just the promise He made (you think) that He would give the Jews the whole world to rule. Thus Judaism is a useful cover for one whole side of the Conspiracy since many others feel as you do.
    You are not entirely wrong btw: the Vatican just came out with a decree for a World Bank. They are traitors to traditional Catholicism. The Vatican is not always the same as the Pople. Benedict is all over the place frankly. He enraged these people by bringing back the Latin Mass. But on other issues he’s with them or not far from them.

  379. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 8:19 pm #

    No. Women (and their male enablers) broke the Social Contract decades ago. Most Men have no idea what these people belive: all heterosexual intercourse is rape, destruction of the family, discover a way to decrease the number of men – and feminize the remaining ones and so on. And men like me who try to them are laughed to scorn. Thus the dispossesion of men and the redistribution of their wealth to their ex-wives continues apace. And now women wonder why men are on a marriage strike!
    And who teaches boys in schools? The same kind of gorgons – who teach them to be ashamed of their sex, race, and culture. Cruelty unspeakable. Good people must abandon Public Schools en masse if we are to have any future at all.

  380. asoka. November 22, 2011 at 8:23 pm #

    Craig Silverstein, Google’s director of technology and the first employee hired at Google said:

    My guess is about 300 years until computers are as good as, say, your local reference library in doing search

    I am well aware of Google’s search limitations.

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  381. mika. November 22, 2011 at 8:31 pm #

    I’m a nationalist. So were my forefathers. The Hebrew Bible speaks against imperialism in no uncertain terms. Our father Abraham escaped Ur and the Sumerian Empire precisely for that reason. As for the promise to Abraham, (on which I presume you base your false charge that god supposedly promised Jews the whole world to rule) it is very specific: From the Euphrates to the Nile. And it speaks about Abraham’s seed, which as you know includes Ishmael — the father of the Arabs. So the promise is fulfilled. It was already fulfilled thousand of years ago. But you know this, and you continue with your nonsense.

  382. Buck Stud November 22, 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    I disqualified myself from the debate because it made no sense for me to answer the question. I hate loud, obnoxious people and crowds in general.If I were King population increases would be sequestered to the coastal cities, leaving home, home on the range a beautiful, barren echo chamber devoid of Motor Vehicle bureaucrats and unruly ruffians running wild.
    But then again, Medicine Bow, Wyoming would get stale in a hurry.

  383. IxNoMor November 22, 2011 at 8:38 pm #

    I am a broken record, repeating myself over and over, ad nauseum (who here *isn’t*?). I really feel for the youth today – they have been sold the virtue of massive debt and gambling, substituted for the uld-skul conservative virtue of thrift/savings (why?)…
    Here’s one for us all, about *40 years after*:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvj99sK1Gl0

  384. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 8:39 pm #

    Three college students caught thrown molotov cocktails in Cairo – how stupid is that? Are they just dummies or Leftists? They look like simple dummies.

  385. jihchaidg November 22, 2011 at 8:40 pm #

    Two parallel lines never intersect is not the most pathetic . at least they can keep together side by side . The two parallel lines which intersect the intersection of the more lines farther . two directions to move forward toward the never-ending . Because I love you, ah !

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  386. Vlad Krandz November 22, 2011 at 8:43 pm #

    I’m glad you know, but as you know, the Orthodox feels that applies to the Jews only. And their power increases…
    And if you’re really so peaceful and shit, why do you say that the sinister Goldman Sachs is doing God’s work?

  387. mika. November 22, 2011 at 8:47 pm #

    Goldman Sachs
    ==
    They will bring the fascist empire down. The more they thieve the faster it all collapses.

  388. mika. November 22, 2011 at 8:59 pm #

    I don’t believe these “Orthodox” are Jews. They are a very small (less than 5%) part of the population, and most Jews have very limited to no contact with them. I believe they are imposers in the pay of the Vatican, meant to pervert Judaism into an absurdity. These people are anti-Jews and are anti-Israel. They don’t serve in the army and they don’t pay taxes. They are complete parasites. I’m not sure why Israel tolerates them, but I suspect it’s because Israel is afraid of the Vatican, and with good reason.

  389. jerry November 22, 2011 at 9:26 pm #

    Those who live simply will do OK. those who have taken money out of the banks and found an even safer place for it close to home, will also do OK.
    Those who are resourceful will do OK. For those who are extravagant will suffer. Those who depend on others do the most basic things for them will suffer.
    It is a matter of time when a great deal of the whole cloth will become tattered and frayed all around the world.
    There is a push for the neo-fascist financial and corporate crime syndicate is pushing Bloomberg and others to try and shut down the #OWS movement because they are scared of these young people. These young people are not afraid of the Brown Shirt-esque cops dressed up in their Halloween costume riot get-ups.
    The #OWS is beginning to tear down some of smoke screens put up by the politically connected elite.
    http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

  390. vnrwandkhb November 22, 2011 at 9:30 pm #

    ????????????????GA??WA??????????GA????????????????????????????????NA?… ….??????????????????????????????NI NA?????TA??????????????NA?????NA KA?TA?????NE?????

    ????????????????????TA???NI????????????GA?????????NA?????GA???????????????

    ??????????????????????GA??SAN??????????????????????????????????????TA???????????GA????????? ?????????????????????????

    ?SAN NA NA KA???????????????????????NI????NA??GA??????????????????RU??RO?????? ????????????TA??????????????????????????GA????????RO??????????

    ????????14???

    ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????cba??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    ??????????????????????????TA??RO??????????????NI???????? ?????????????????GA NA???NI NA RU??GA???????????TA???? ??? s??

    ??????GA????????????WA??????????????????????58.3?????????55.7????????????????GA????????????????????????????DA RO?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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  391. IxNoMor November 22, 2011 at 9:54 pm #

    OMG, nothing about immigrants? You *SHOCK* me!!! There might even be *HOPE* and *change*… ***NOT***

  392. IxNoMor November 22, 2011 at 10:07 pm #

    “Those who live simply will do OK”
    You have a simpleton view of teh reality we exist *WITHIN*.
    You seem to believe there is some sort of *PAYBACK* to the idjits.
    Con me once, shame on you – con me twice – welcome to the world of microsecond trades, collateralized debt, derivatives, and massive TBTF ETF trades…
    There is no higher ground in this – there is only fraud, theft, scam, and outright criminality. *YOU LOOSE – GOOD DAY, SIR!!!*

  393. ABSALOM November 22, 2011 at 10:22 pm #

    Yup, you editorialized Mandelbrot’s words. You’re searching for a casual way to explain away the fears expressed by folks like Taleb, Mandelbrot, and of course JHK. Your not persuasive, but it’s OK to keep trying. I hope you’re successful with baseless contrarianism. It helps those who wear paper bags over their heads get through the day’s ugliness.
    You may consider re-watching this video for yourself, especially from 6:14. Here, the viewer’s framing of the notion of turbulence was too narrow; Mandelbrot interjects and alludes to misunderstandings about why turbulence makes predictability more difficult, especially for economics.
    Although, both Taleb and Mandelbrot were effectively saying that because of banking industry consolidation, an unpredictable Black Swan could bring an entire economy to its knees; whereas, a Black Swan appearance within a banking system that’s more spread out, less interdependent as it were, may not have much of an effect upon the overall economy. This distinction should have been obvious from the clip you provided to me.
    Mandelbrot does cede the idea that anything is possible (9:30) to the interviewer’s paradoxical query, yet Mandelbrot goes on to explain that he uses scientific methodology instead of opinion to attempt prediction. Hence, the title of the clip, “Benoit Mandelbrot thinks we’re all screwed.”
    Mandelbrot never disqualified the argument that something potentially chaotic was on the horizon, as you suggest. well, at least the person who posted the clip on YouTube understood its content, anyway.
    Thanks for sharing.

  394. IxNoMor November 22, 2011 at 10:33 pm #

    As Soker claims, I was Butt-FUCKED by Google/Firefox tonite (some sort of *ONLINE* scan that I disconnected). I just deleted my facebook account, and 14 days from now, I will be free from the “friends” that celebrate themselves/spending/larger-than-thou self-stroking…
    This here shit-blog banned me for 2 weeks, weeks on end! I know I can make it through a 2 week ban! *PRAY* (prey?) for me!!!
    Muahaha! Family will be concerned – oh well, they *HAD* their chance… Maybe they should have been more *involved* earlier on… Sistah accountant should have realized I talked the truth, back in ’98 (I know she’s *scared* now)…

  395. asoka. November 22, 2011 at 10:36 pm #

    Newt Gingrich said:

    I can’t imagine any serious person who will walk down the street, see someone they know for 20 years and say, ‘You’re leaving your family, you’re leaving your church, you’re leaving the community… and we are kicking you out forcibly.

    Newt doesn’t know ProCon or the viciousness of racists!

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  396. IxNoMor November 22, 2011 at 11:13 pm #

    Tax the rich, feed the poor… (YAWN)

  397. IxNoMor November 22, 2011 at 11:14 pm #

    Population, keeps on breeding…

  398. asoka. November 22, 2011 at 11:15 pm #

    I was out and about today: roads full, gas at less than $3.00, stock market DOW nowhere near 4,000, grocery store shelves full, no black swans anywhere in sight.
    “Blue bus” was a street name for a powerful painkiller called oxymorphone in the 60’s. It is mentioned in “The End” by The Doors. Those who get excited about the blue bus are gullible suckers easily drawn in by doomster porn.
    Have a happy Thanksgiving … unless TSHTF tomorrow, the internet is taken away from us, we are herded into the stadiums or FEMA camps, EMP takes away all our electricity, “they” come to take away all our guns and gold, etc. etc.
    You guys really believe all that stuff? Still? Amazing denial of reality!

  399. IxNoMor November 22, 2011 at 11:16 pm #

    Senators – stop the wars?!…

  400. IxNoMor November 22, 2011 at 11:20 pm #

    “gas at less than $3.00”
    RIIIght. $3.65+++/gallon here. I haven’t filled up for 2 months, and only fill up for 1.5 gallons every 2 months (~$5/fillup, every 2 months).
    You? How many gallons you guzzle every day/week/month? Come on Soker, you know you’re at about 12 gallons+++ a month, if not a *WEEK*…

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  401. IxNoMor November 22, 2011 at 11:32 pm #

    Soker – let’s go honest, bare our souls, and all that sh!t. Let’s talk about your South Americal plot.
    Is it a clearcut? It is concrete-trampled by mob-grazers? Is is leached of all nutrients? Is it right next to a silted river? Is that river contaminated by mining dredge? Is that river contaminated by oil drilling dredge?
    You seem to dodge questions, my *BROTHAH*!!! Feeling lucky? Are you beliefs etched in stone?

  402. IxNoMor November 22, 2011 at 11:33 pm #

    WhereTF is *Q* when you need him!!!

  403. asoka. November 22, 2011 at 11:40 pm #

    You have a warped view of South America, BROTHAH.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXauuFSPMIA

  404. IxNoMor November 22, 2011 at 11:43 pm #

    “They won’t even say which institutions got the money in front of Congressional panels.”
    The *CRUX(ifiction)* of the problem. We all *babble on moron*, like fools… How do we convince anyone they are wrong, and we are right?!…
    Get it yet? They are still the 1%, and they will *NEVER* relinquish that status. Would *YOU*?!?

  405. Qshtik November 22, 2011 at 11:51 pm #

    gas at less than $3.00,
    =================
    And where would that be?
    You must be buying your gas at the same place that sells those 12% yield investments.
    I was out and about today too and in central NJ we have a bunch of brand X gas stations that go by the name Raceway. Regular was going for $3.119. All the employees are either Pakistani or Indian, it’s hard to tell. Name brands were $3.189. I never see gas cheaper than here in central NJ.

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  406. RHenry November 22, 2011 at 11:53 pm #

    You should read more carefully. Your comment today:
    “this distintion should have been clear to you from the clip” in which you are referring to the greater likelihood of a black swan event nowadays.
    My comment to you last night:
    “Fractals may indeed suggest the increased likelihood of a ‘black swan event’ collapsing the economy. Taleb’s argument that the system is so tightly wound that it is much more sensitive to unanticipated disruptions seems clearly to be the case.”
    You should at least try to comprehend other viewpoints before attacking the messenger.
    But that is exactly the point I have been making – the predictions on this site have been poor, by JHK and others, especially related to timeframes. That is just a fact.
    And my point has been that many here tend to start with a predetermined point of view (peak oil is upon us, motorized transport is finished, etc) and do not give other potential remedies a fair evaluation.
    As I said earlier, although I am against bailing out inefficiency, debt monetization in a deflationary environment could go on for a very very long time.
    I agree for the most part that the combination of global debt levels and the speed of information transfer today produce volatility, however, I do not agree with many of the dire predictions and/or time frames continuously provided here.
    Many people here also quickly resort to personal attacks rather than straightforward logical reasoning.

  407. ctemple November 23, 2011 at 12:01 am #

    Fractals? I should have figured somebody would figure out a way to make things seem even more Godamn complicated than is already done on here.
    Jim has warned us about ‘techno triumphalism’.

  408. asoka. November 23, 2011 at 12:08 am #

    19-year old Jennifer Fox, who was beaten and sprayed last Thursday at the same OWS demonstration in which an 84-year old woman was sprayed, miscarried her three-month fetus on Sunday.
    Isn’t that murder by the police? She told them she was three months pregnant and they beat her on the stomach.
    84 year olds, Iraq war veterans, pregnant women…
    We all Black now.

  409. BeantownBill November 23, 2011 at 12:09 am #

    One of the main topics this week in the comment section is the prediction of when or if a disaster of our own making strikes us. The truth is there’s no way to tell. The past has already happened & is probably immutable. Many of us don’t even know what’s happening in the present. Stating what occurs in the future is meaningless, because the future does not now exist.
    What we can do is plan for the future based on current trends, many possible events and a rough estimate of probabilities. For example, we can observe that there has been an erosion of liberty in America. No rational person can deny this – we can give examples. Knowing this, we have options on how we can deal with it (no need to go into detail here).
    So all we can do is develop options (or not, for low probability events) for future possibilities. Talking about what’s going to happen with certitude, or near certitude is irrational. Saying what we’ll do IF something occurs is another matter.

  410. asoka. November 23, 2011 at 12:13 am #

    Evidently gas is under $3.00 in several places around the country, not just here.
    http://video.wrbl.com/v/48943561/gas-prices-drop-below-3.htm

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  411. RHenry November 23, 2011 at 12:19 am #

    Alot of people quote Taleb here, who drew alot of his inspiration from Mandelbrot’s Theory of Fractals.
    Fractals actually are considered a simple way to understand infinite complexity.
    This is a video tribute to Mandelbrot by Jonathon Coulton:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES-yKOYaXq0
    As far as “Jim warned us…” its fine to read him but make up your own mind.

  412. BeantownBill November 23, 2011 at 12:48 am #

    The last time I bought gas here in the Boston area – a few days ago – the price for regular was $3.289 per gallon, but I know I could have driven around and found a place for a few cents less. To me it’s not a big deal because on the last fill-up my Prius got 52.9 mi/gal, and the time before that about 54 mi/gal. Since my gas tank’s capacity is 11.9 gallons, and I always fill up with a few gallons left, my fill-up cost is usually around $28 (I fill up after 400 miles or so).
    I’m not too worried about the price of gas. If the price doubled to $6.60, I’d still be paying around $56 per fill-up. My Prius is currently almost exactly 2 years old; I bought it new and now have around 24,500 miles on it. That means I burn around 230 gallons a year. At $3.80/gal, which is the price I’ve been paying for a good part of the year, I spend around $875 yearly for gas. Given the hours I save by driving to places I need to go, instead of taking public transportation, the comfort and convenience of using my own vehicle, and the freedom to go on trips it gives me, I feel for me, the $875 per year is well worth it.
    Since I buy a new car every 2 years, I’m always on my warranty and my operating costs, besides insurance is mostly for changing the oil. Because Priuses have a great trade-in value, I figure it costs me about $5,000 to buy the new car, or about $200 per month, and I never worry about repairs or my car malfunctioning on the road. My auto expenses also don’t include any costs to the environment, which is a negative, but I’m not ready yet to give up driving.
    In my last post I commented on developing options for possible future events. I’m working on that now for the time when it may not be possible to obtain gasoline. But for now, I’m ok with my car.
    I suspect my situation is similar for many Americans, which is why the country finds it hard to give up happy motoring. My difference is that I’ve developed plans for POSSIBLE futures.

  413. metuselah November 23, 2011 at 12:51 am #

    Knowing this, we have options on how we can deal with it
    ==
    http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6031/6370759251_c79426db5e_z.jpg
    I’ll tell you how you deal with this. You make a sign that reads “arbeit macht frei” and another sign that reads “Buchenwald”. Because if you’re not out there with those kids, that’s the future.

  414. anti soak November 23, 2011 at 1:12 am #

    10 years after!
    Tell me where is sanity?
    everywhere theres [censored]

  415. anti soak November 23, 2011 at 1:13 am #

    Yr Prius loses 2.5K a year in value?

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  416. Eleuthero November 23, 2011 at 1:25 am #

    Absalom said:
    I don’t come across many people with the grasp of scientific methodology you possess. This is especially frustrating as I often converse with social-scientists, who seemingly believe the scientific method can be applied “softly” to experimental design. In other words, the loosey goosey application of experimental methodology in social studies produces a vast array of theories based more on traditional viewpoints rather than interpolated evidence. This feels like the infusion of science and rhetoric — what a disaster.
    ***************************************************************
    Much of the abuse of statistics in the social sciences fits into the following two categories: 1) The assumption that a group of people is a “closed system” like molecules in a Bell Jar, and 2) The assumption that whatever personal/societal traits being measured in a group are distributed as a Gaussian Curve.
    The first is the worst and most ridiculous assumption. Any human being in a psychology or sociology experiment brings their ENTIRE HISTORY into the event. A molecule in a Bell Jar doesn’t have self-consciousness and its behavior in the Bell Jar doesn’t depend on what it was doing ten years ago. Thus, the “closed system” assumption that physicists and chemists make when interpreting experimental results is an utter absurdity in the social pseudo-sciences. Ridiculous.
    The violations of proper sampling methods, improper assessments of sample-vs.-population characteristics, and use of improper inferential statistics merely adds insult to injury. I remember when psych and education grad students would ask me to crank out stats from experiments they ran so they could write their dissertations and get their Ph.D.’s. No less than 60% of the time I refused because their sample sizes and sampling methods did not justify the stats they wanted to run (usually Student T-tests, ANOVAs, and so on). I would guess that up to NINETY percent of JURIED social science “findings” reported in various trade journals are absolute nonsense. The “juries” don’t know any math either!!
    E.

  417. BeantownBill November 23, 2011 at 1:27 am #

    I guess so. Like I say, Priuses keep their value. All I know is that the last 2 times I bought new Priuses with Prius trade-ins, it cost me $5,000. I expect, with inflation it will cost me more this time around – maybe up to $7,500.

  418. ABSALOM November 23, 2011 at 1:30 am #

    Well, you’ve done it again. You’ve editorialized with a feeble attempt at paraphrase.
    Your representation of my earlier reply:
    “”this distintion should have been clear to you from the clip” in which you are referring to the greater likelihood of a black swan event nowadays.””
    This is you mumbling, barely a reflection of what I actually wrote, and is not a real point of contention with my personal point of view, nor Mandelbot’s. This man, if I understood Taleb’s book correctly, effectively posits that Fractals are superior plotters for volatility, opposed to Gaussian curves, which are not so good for charting volatility. This was the gist of that portion of Taleb’s thesis, and the primary reason he cites Mandelbrot’s ideas.
    Anyhow, the supposed “greater likelihood of a Black Swan event nowadays” is a straw man argument you’ve concocted and attributed to me, but I’ve never said as much. That is your framing, sir, not mine.
    ==================================================
    My actual remark:
    “Although, both Taleb and Mandelbrot were effectively saying that because of banking industry consolidation, an unpredictable Black Swan could bring an entire economy to its knees; whereas, a Black Swan appearance within a banking system that’s more spread out, less interdependent as it were, may not have much of an effect upon the overall economy. This distinction should have been obvious from the clip you provided to me.”
    Remember for the future: a Black Swan is unpredictable by nature; otherwise, it could not be called a Black Swan. Randomness means unpredictability. A predictable occurrence is not random. To paraphrase the original author: A single observation of a Black Swan is sufficient to refute the conclusion that all swans are white.
    So going back to the original topic, I simply explained how your claim referring to comments in this video were distortions. For example, here’s your claim:
    “It is a good video from back in 2008, however, if you don’t care to listen to it all, the part about [[Mandelbrot saying the black swan event could simply right itself, and that anything is possible, and that predicting the future is very difficult …starts at 9:30 into the video and goes till the end.”]]
    This is a choppy representation of the context of Mandelbrot’s remarks. You’ve flubbed several times now, so I’m going to let you alone on this topic. I agree to disagree with you.

  419. ABSALOM November 23, 2011 at 1:48 am #

    Yeah, you are that autodidact. Or at least his long lost twin. Still taking the time to respond to students I see.
    Happy sailing, sir.

  420. MADMAX November 23, 2011 at 1:58 am #

    “Are you being served?”

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  421. messianicdruid November 23, 2011 at 7:52 am #

    “We live in a society where passions are riderless horses, uncontrolled and uncontrollable, in which there is a desolation of decency. In which love has become a jungle emotion, lust exalted to lordship, sin elevated to sovereignty, Satan adored as a saint, and man magnified above his maker.”
    And we pretend to wonder why these things are happening to us.

  422. asoka. November 23, 2011 at 9:21 am #

    We live in a society where passions are riderless horses, uncontrolled and uncontrollable,

    We live in a puritanical, sexually repressed, society where passion is OK for NASCAR and football, but don’t scream in the throes of orgasm.

    in which there is a desolation of decency. In which love has become a jungle emotion, lust exalted to lordship,

    This is a view consonant with an indoctrinated Puritan who doesn’t know what love is

    sin elevated to sovereignty, Satan adored as a saint, and man magnified above his maker.”

    Puritanical people believe in original sin, in the dualism of “satan/saint” and the dualism of man/maker. Ignorance (in the sense of ignoring) is the source of suffering and ignorance is not sin. The “maker” is just a concept in the mind of man. Man created the idea of a maker.

    And we pretend to wonder why these things are happening to us.

    It is good to recognize pretending, good to wonder, good to be in awe. No “maker” is needed for these things to happen.

  423. bossier22 November 23, 2011 at 9:27 am #

    Whites don’t realize they are doing the same thing. They just can’t be bothered to have children.

  424. ccm989 November 23, 2011 at 10:05 am #

    Here at the Jersey Shore, Sunoco on Route 35 is selling gas for $3.05 a gallon (cash price). Might fill up today.

  425. metuselah November 23, 2011 at 10:09 am #

    Good post, Asoka. I didn’t think you had it in you.

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  426. charliefoxtrot November 23, 2011 at 10:15 am #

    aah jeez, you almost said something real “love” is seratonin, and our bodies have evolved to recognize a different immune system from our own…that s why we re not attracted to family (different immune systems will combine to produce a child with parts of each; giving each generation a more varied, and therefor stronger immunity) all of the sinner/saint bullshit is just that- the whole puritan thing is not about not fucking; it s about not talking about it- which i suspect was a function of the perversions of church leaders…who else cares if i m bangin’ my wife? somebody who aint getting any and is jealous…one of my precious memories is the note we got on our door one morning from our neighbors concerning just how disturbed they were the night before…being in my twenties at the time; i was ready willing and able to make ’em regret that note the next evening!

  427. charliefoxtrot November 23, 2011 at 10:19 am #

    therefore…sorry Q-check (that ll be $1.67 please)

  428. dale November 23, 2011 at 10:29 am #

    Sounds like a script from various Tibetan Buddhist
    uh, groups.
    —————————————-
    Not any I’ve ever been associated with, your experience differs?

  429. asoka. November 23, 2011 at 10:33 am #

    our bodies have evolved to recognize a different immune system from our own…that s why we re not attracted to family
    ============
    Right. That’s why incest never happens.
    Guess again, Charlie.

  430. dale November 23, 2011 at 10:33 am #

    I don’t think Vlad will be ascending any tall towers with a mighty rifle anytime soon – the thorn in his paw won’t allow it.
    —————————————–
    Well said, yes Fascism requires that thorn.

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  431. dale November 23, 2011 at 10:36 am #

    Watch Dale get out in front of the Pygmy issue
    —————————————
    Yeah….I’m “plotting” right now to get out in front of the “Pygmy issue” (whatever that is)…..Whooh boy (eyes rolling here)

  432. eljxanjgil November 23, 2011 at 10:37 am #

    ???????????KyoboBookCenter????WA 21?11????????????????????“????”????TA?????????????????“KYOBOeReader “?????TA?????????????????????????“???????????”NA????????????????

    ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????278????????(????- e

    ????????????????????????????????????????? ??? s????????????????????????????8?????????????????????

    ??????????????????

    ????????????????????”???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    (?????????:??)

  433. charliefoxtrot November 23, 2011 at 10:46 am #

    hey, i didn t say it never happens; but that s one reason it doesn t always happen…btw, on an unrelated note: i m tired of scrolling; since you re “here”, didn t you say a pregnant girl miscarried? was her name jenny fox? i ve seen nothing on huffinglue paint, or other M$M about it…

  434. charliefoxtrot November 23, 2011 at 10:50 am #

    aaaargh! what a waste of screen…james, could you at least set filters for english?

  435. dale November 23, 2011 at 11:37 am #

    We all Black now.
    ——————————
    I love the comment by the Fox News commentator that there is nothing to worry about, after all, pepper spray is a “food substance”….riiiight.
    Using that logic, it’s no big deal if they shoot them either, since lead is a naturally occurring mineral substance.
    Fucking Fascists.

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  436. asoka. November 23, 2011 at 11:43 am #

    i ve seen nothing on huffinglue paint, or other M$M about it…
    =================
    Which of the M$M would you consider credible? What are your criteria for determining credibility? If I gave you Jenny’s phone number and you talked to her, would that convince you? What if I showed you the Harborview (this was in Seattle) hospital records? Would that convince you? Why do you care? For Jenny? Or for the unborn fetus?

  437. Widespreadpanic7 November 23, 2011 at 11:50 am #

    Hey BTownBill, it looks like you’re gonna get casino gambling up there in Mass., 3 casinos! You won’t have to make that drive down to Connecticut anymore.
    Happy Thanksgiving, CFNers!
    –WSP7

  438. charliefoxtrot November 23, 2011 at 12:01 pm #

    whoa there, cowboy! you misunderstand the enquiry! i was not doubting the validity of your post…to answer your questions: BBC, most of the time…gut instinct and the ‘smell test’…yes, yes again (while i never said i wasn t convinced in the first place)…because i am a decent human being blessed with empathy, i care for them both…i was trying to gather information- kinda curious about, among other things, whether it is known which pig assaulted her; and was the attack caught on evidence- i mean video…thankyou for any further consideration

  439. DeeJones November 23, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    To whom ever is concerned about Vladdy getting some, don’t worry, from what I’ve heard, he takes care of his carnal longings about every 60 days by taking the money he makes turning in aluminum cans & plastic bottles, in carefully counted rolls of quarters, down to the double-wide at the other end of the trailer park where the meth-whores live.
    They hate that he pays in quarters, so they charge him quadruple the regular rate, but they are happy anyway since he finishes in about 30 seconds. Afterwards, he goes home and takes a 60 minute shower, carefully washing with a bar of Ivory Soap, the whitest of course. When done, he pours himself a glass of cheap brandy, and sits down to his trusty P-II, running Windows 98, logs onto his favorite Wite Powr site first, then comes here to settle in for the fun part of the day.
    Life doesn’t get any better for Ol’ Vladdy.
    On occasion, you may have noticed from his discourse that he appears to go off his meds and/or self medicate, this is when his primary personality comes to the fore. Some think that he was once a university professor at an Ivy league school, but was forced out in disgrace due to an affair with a young female student of his, thus his hatred for women and person he feels may be “more smarter” than him.
    When he is back on his meds, he’s just the usual, huggable ol Vlad the Racist.
    I hope this helps us all understand just where our fun, lovable Mr Vlad is coming from.
    🙂

  440. asoka. November 23, 2011 at 12:08 pm #

    Oh, OK. Sorry. In that case the story may not be true. It was reported in the Seattle Times and the Washington Post. But the Seattle Police are investigating their own behavior and may claim the woman was lying. Who you gonna believe? And are gut instinct and smell test the only criteria you use?
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/seattle-police-investigate-protesters-claim-that-she-miscarried-after-being-pepper-sprayed/2011/11/22/gIQAXtilmN_story.html

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  441. Buck Stud November 23, 2011 at 12:12 pm #

    Asoka writes;
    “We live in a puritanical, sexually repressed, society where passion is OK for NASCAR and football, but don’t scream in the throes of orgasm.”
    Are Mr. and Mrs. Asoka suffering from inhibition in the bedroom?

  442. wagelaborer November 23, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    Seriously? You think that God disregards the manufacture and use of depleted uranium bombs, white phosphorus, cluster bombs, bunker busting bombs, drones, Hellfire missiles, offshore drilling leading to mass death among ocean dwellers, police brutality and all the rest?
    He only cares about lust? Enough to punish an entire country because some people have sex?
    That’s a sick, sick being that you worship.
    And you wonder why so many people are atheists.

  443. charliefoxtrot November 23, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    i figure from what he said about getting laughed at for approaching women, about divorce, and the whole racist bit that he s just an ugly little man with a little bitty pecker, and well, no self esteem…all of which can be helped with a little counseling and elective surgery- so save your quarters up vlika, and remember what stewart smalley said…maybe not true in your case, but it COULD be…smirk…

  444. wagelaborer November 23, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    Gasoline here is $3.45 a gallon. I wonder why it’s higher here than where you all are.

  445. wagelaborer November 23, 2011 at 12:33 pm #

    Yes, I love Joe Baegant. We lost a great voice when he died.
    I’m glad to have you lurking around my blog. I don’t take that in a creepy way. 🙂

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  446. wagelaborer November 23, 2011 at 12:35 pm #

    Pepper spray on pizza counts as two vegetables.

  447. charliefoxtrot November 23, 2011 at 12:42 pm #

    thanks- i was sorta kidding; i m unable to pass up a chance at humor…about gas, that is a damn good question it s my understanding that the gas stations only get pennies/gal in profit…

  448. wagelaborer November 23, 2011 at 12:46 pm #

    I don’t think that he’s ugly or impotent.
    I think that he’s moody and prone to spouting nasty personal digs and insults, which, along with his hateful political philosophy, repels women.

  449. Vlad Krandz November 23, 2011 at 12:47 pm #

    What about Women hating Men? Why does no one, male or female, care about that? Why do Women get lighter sentences for serious crimes? Why do Women on all Women Talk shows laugh about Women cutting off their husbands penis? Why are Men viciously abused in Family Courts?
    That you don’t take any of this seriously just shows you are another one of the haters. That men don’t care about other men shows the state our Society. Many men are fleeing this doomed place and going to places where women haven’t been ruined like Costa Rica. But even there, there are women like you trying to corrupt their sisters down to American levels.

  450. The Mook November 23, 2011 at 12:51 pm #

    No, the Prius loses the $2500 in value (to you)when you take it out the door. After that the depreciation drops off dramatically. If you took it back in a week, the dealer would pay you $2500 less for it, but then sell it again to someone else for the same amount you just paid for it a week ago.

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  451. k-dog November 23, 2011 at 12:56 pm #

    The Chinese trade imbalance is fixed! $12,000 an acre is good. All the money sent to China can come back when they buy our farms.

  452. The Mook November 23, 2011 at 12:57 pm #

    Q, When you talk to your son, ask him if he would like to go to the Salt and Pepper deli for lunch sometime. I think he will be amused.

  453. Vlad Krandz November 23, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    That’s true. Some mornings after a good night’s sleep, I’m still as handsome as a god. But the evil out there is very great – and I’m not willing to put up with alot of bull shit anymore. There are some good marriages and relationships, but a man takes a terrible chance now that the laws have taken our rights away. And the popular culture is one long mock and smear against White Men. This does effect the attitudes of women – even if only unconsciously. Women are naturally hypergamous – they have become what they seek. So they end up Alone and Miserable.
    The Feminist attack against Western Culture was one of the master strokes of the Communism. There was Feminism before Communism, but Communism organized it into a potent force. Along with the whole Racism madness it has almost destroyed us. So kudos on all that. Enjoy it for what it’s worth. I don’t think you or anyone else is going to enjoy the acutal fruits of all that. But you people were always the “would rather rule in Hell than serve in Heaven type”. Blacks are like that too. The Blacks of South Africa know that White Rule was better than the rapidly deteriorating situation over there. But they cannot regret what has been done or do anything to stop it. It must run to its natural end now – and that will be the collapse of the Industrial State back to tribal warfare with swords and spears. The Boers bide their time, training in secret, waiting for the hour of Revenge.
    Oh and btw, if by some miracle, we were to gain power, women would flock to us in droves. Our “repulsive” ideology would not repel them anymore at all. Sucess is their criterion and what determines what is and is not repulsive. Such is the nature of women. Am I missing that much? You are a rare exception of course. A puritan fanatic whose ancestors exchanged one religion for the communist one.

  454. Vlad Krandz November 23, 2011 at 1:19 pm #

    Trungpa used to get drunk and call himself a king. He had his men tie up a man and beat him. He broke up marriages with his sex orgies.
    His “dharma heir” Osel Tenzrin was Gay and HIV positive – he gave over a hundred men the virus. He said: I thought that the Dharma Seal would protect them. A fitting Dharma Son – he exceeded his Dark Master.
    But you don’t care about any of this. You’re Dale! Everything you’re involved with becomes righteous since you’re involved with it. But you’re not alone. As Andrew Cohen once said, he never met even one Dharmadatu member who had emotionally dealt with any of this.

  455. BeantownBill November 23, 2011 at 1:19 pm #

    Yeah, wow, 3 new casinos. As if we need anymore. Good for Massachusetts revenue, bad for me, and Connecticut revenue.
    Bad for me because the Eastern Mass. casino will be too close. Anytime I want I can just go for a 20 minute ride to the casino, not a 1.5 hour, 90 mile trip to Ct. Best analogy: A recovering alcoholic goes to a party, finds out it’s in a bar. He thinks, “not good, but it’s just a one night party, I can deal with the temptation of being surrounded by booze for one night.” He does.
    Then he finds that his roommate is going to hold a party every night with lots of booze, in his own living room. He’s a goner and so’s his sobriety.

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  456. And So it Goes November 23, 2011 at 1:28 pm #

    Jim,
    Why don’t you charge people for reading your blog, or commenting.
    You are well worth the read!

  457. wagelaborer November 23, 2011 at 1:28 pm #

    I don’t think that the so-called feminism triumph of the 70s was left wing at all, of course, Vlad.
    I think it was a propaganda scheme by the ruling class to get women into the workforce and keep them there, since women were paid 57 cents to a man’s dollar.
    Women traditionally kept their infants with them and nurtured them. But that meant that the ruling class had to pay the men a family wage. Unacceptable!
    So a campaign was launched to make women believe that leaving their newborns with paid help was “liberation”.
    And the ruling class obtained two workers for the price of 1.57. http://wagelaborer.blogspot.com/2010/05/mothers-day-talk.html
    And when women obtained the right to participate more widely in the workforce, they no longer depended on the men to provide for them, and they became free to dump abusive or otherwise unsuitable men.
    That’s the part you don’t like.
    As for women now getting money from men in divorce cases, I don’t know where you get that.
    Alimony was dropped along with mothering, a long time ago.

  458. Vlad Krandz November 23, 2011 at 1:45 pm #

    The guy made a living trashing his own people for liberals like you. Of course you’d like him, Judas.

  459. charliefoxtrot November 23, 2011 at 2:03 pm #

    i m an earthling, so you are ALL my people…and that s jesus, to you, my wayward son

  460. Vlad Krandz November 23, 2011 at 2:08 pm #

    Simone De Beauvior said that women would not be allowed to stay at home and be mothers. It’s so self indulgent she said. So many women want to do it. Horrible. This ties in with the detruction of the family as per the Communist Manifesto.
    Women are paid what men are in general. It’s just men work longer and harder. Women like the Option to work or stay at home. And of course they need and want time off to have babies. As is right. But they can’t expect to be able to compete with men who don’t take so much time off. The sexes are different and have different destinies. To say as Gloria Steninem did, that the only diffence is plumbing is just ignorant. And most Feminists don’t believe it anyway – seeing themselves as special and superior to both men and ordinary unenlightened women.
    A woman who elects not to have children should be given an equal opportunity. But that’s just a very small minority. Having children is the greatest joy for most women. This drives the hard lesbo core of Feminists into a rage. That ordinary women listen to these hate filled freaks is the amazing thing, the tragedy. But women are conformist – and the Establishment at the highest levels is behind the Feminists. Thinking for themselves is about the least favorite feminine activity. So they follow people who despise them and lead them into “careers” (boring jobs) and lives of quiet desperation and sterility. After all, trying to get married and have children in your 40’s is insane – it should be done in the teens and early 20’s.
    And you still think the Establishment is against you! That’s why the great foundations have funded Commies in Academia for generations. That’s why Ayers teaches despite his terrorism. It must be great to both a revolutionary and a respected member of society. How you people live with yourselves and believe yourselves is the question.
    Your point about getting more workers and paying them less is correct of course. But Communism is just State Capitalism after all. And it is funded by the International Bankers as a way to gain absolute power. You wont like the final result since you have a deep core of decency. But you are too proud and passionate to give up your revolutionary stance and simply SEE that you’re being played.

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  461. messianicdruid November 23, 2011 at 2:13 pm #

    SECTION IX.–Assassination.
    148. The law of war does not allow proclaiming either an individual belonging to the hostile army, or a citizen, or a subject of the hostile government an outlaw, who may be slain without trial by any captor, any more than the modern law of peace allows such international outlawry; on the contrary, it abhors such outrage. The sternest retaliation should follow the murder committed in consequence of such proclamation, made by whatever authority. Civilized nations look with horror upon offers of rewards for the assassination of enemies as relapses into barbarism.
    http://www.civilwarhome.com/liebercode.htm

  462. anti soak November 23, 2011 at 2:31 pm #

    I heard 200 got hiv/aids [perhaps spouses of the men].
    Well lets see Dale:
    Rick Ross cult site/ Scandanavian in cahoots with the fake karmapa.
    Lama Sogyal Rinpoche.
    And 3rd but not least the young Spaniard who doesnt want to be Yeshes reincarnation, now that really was a hoot.
    The Tulku system was misused in Tibet but now, with Segal and that woman in Maryland…
    its a f’kin joke.
    I read the woman was ‘bringing in alot of Beltway people to the center so they made her a ‘special reincarnation’.

  463. charliefoxtrot November 23, 2011 at 2:31 pm #

    hate filled freaks…that s rich!

  464. wagelaborer November 23, 2011 at 2:32 pm #

    You should know that the point about the destruction of the family in the Communist Manifesto, was that capitalism destroys the family.
    And it still is.
    How can you say that women and men are paid the same and also say that it its true that capitalists get more workers and pay them less if women are convinced to stay in the workforce? That’s mutually contradictory.
    And I will just disregard your rant about lesbians, communists and Bill Ayers, as I usually do.

  465. anti soak November 23, 2011 at 2:33 pm #

    Does anyone know Michelles SAT scores?
    I have conflicting info here:
    Factcheck:
    Easton said the nearly $317,000 figure is “misleading” anyway because it includes more than just her salary. He said the figure “also includes a performance bonus, a one-time signing bonus (she had other, competing offers at the time), and a one-time mandatory payout from a terminated retirement plan.” This is reflected in the fact that her 2006 earnings were less than in 2005.
    The first lady, a graduate of both Princeton University and Harvard Law School, was quite accomplished before she joined the University of Chicago in 1996 and ultimately the medical center in 2002.
    Her prior work experience included stints as an associate with the Chicago law firm of Sidley Austin LLP, assistant commissioner of planning and development in Chicago’s City Hall and executive director of the Chicago chapter of Public Allies……………
    John treed.com
    Another test of the application of affirmative action to admit Michelle Obama instead a more qualified would-be lawyer is what kind of a lawyer did Michelle turn out to be?
    For sure, a short-lived one.
    I could not find the exact duration on the Internet, but the Obama campaign Web site has only this to say about her stay at the Sidley Austin law firm:
    …corporate law was not her calling…
    Actually, apparently no other kind of law was her calling either. She never attempted to practice law again.
    It is at least an even bet that she quit the legal profession so quickly after Harvard Law School because she sucked at it, not unlike the way she sucked at taking the Law School Admission Test. I expect that top law firms like Sidley Austin make extra efforts to recruit black lawyers, but I doubt they can tolerate weak job performance in such a competitive profession…..

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  466. wagelaborer November 23, 2011 at 2:33 pm #

    That is, capitalism is still destroying the family.

  467. anti soak November 23, 2011 at 2:36 pm #

    ‘That’s why Ayers teaches despite his terrorism.’
    Angela Davis was welcomed in and Kevin Mc Donald
    was almost [?] banned, after all he was armed with the truth.

  468. wagelaborer November 23, 2011 at 2:39 pm #

    This video “Capitalism Hits the Fan” is very good at analyzing our current predicament.
    I recommend it to you and to Prog, whose obsession with immigration parallels yours with race and women.
    Richard Wolff points out that women AND immigrants, not to mention computers, were used in the late 70s and 80s to destroy the wages of the working class.
    Get back to your roots, Vlad.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZU3wfjtIJY

  469. anti soak November 23, 2011 at 2:40 pm #

    Sick but true….’they’ are buying huge swaths of
    Africa, and elsewhere! As is Soros.
    ‘We’ can work for minimum wage on the heartland farms as coolies for the Chinese millionaires and billionaires.

  470. Vlad Krandz November 23, 2011 at 2:42 pm #

    Mister we could use a man like Ronald Reagan again. His jelly beans were brain food! All of his Cabinet were CFR but he wasn’t. What does that mean?

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  471. anti soak November 23, 2011 at 2:44 pm #

    Are we only an economy?
    ‘Prog, whose obsession with immigration…’
    P2C is right, its the #1 or #2 issue.
    ‘Vlad, back to your roots’ what roots? The movie about colored folks?

  472. messianicdruid November 23, 2011 at 2:47 pm #

    “And when women obtained the right to participate more widely in the workforce,..”
    If they “obtained” it then its not a right, but a priviledge. Government cannot grant rights, only recognize and preserve them. All our rights predate our government. It was created by us to preserve our rights, and when it fails in this it has lost its reason to exist, and must be replaced.

  473. Vlad Krandz November 23, 2011 at 2:51 pm #

    So what’s the problem? Send the immigrants back and give women what they want – stay home with the kids. They can go to work once the kids are in school – say in their mid to late 20’s. But many wont want to and that’s fine too. Many (not all) women would give their eye teeth for what women had back in the 50’s.
    So Communism doesn’t want to destroy the family? You’re lying. Communism sees itself as completing the arc of destruction begun by Capitalism. Capitalism destroyed the extended family; Communism will destroy the nuclear. And then everyone will be one big family! And people will roam thru the State (rich elite) owned factories flinging their arms in joy exclaiming, “I, Wage, own all of this!

  474. Vlad Krandz November 23, 2011 at 2:55 pm #

    I don’t want to be a tulku! I’m a toy’s r us kid.
    You must. You are Lama Yeshe. I don’t want to be. You are.
    Lama Yeshe was a nice guy (maybe more) but this is ridiculous.

  475. messianicdruid November 23, 2011 at 3:07 pm #

    “And you wonder why so many people are atheists.”
    No, I don’t wonder about this. Its obvious to me how someone who thinks God overlooks other forms of evil just because I didn’t quote every form of evil in the world in a comment on CFN, could miss some information that might convince them that He, in fact, doesn’t.
    Your problem isn’t that you don’t believe in God, but that you don’t agree with how He is running things, which you foolishly attribute {blame on}to those of us who do believe, as if we were responsible for what God is doing. It will not be until after a while that we will recognize that, none of us are even capable of comprehending all that He is orchestrating to bring about a just resolution to our prediciment.

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  476. DeeJones November 23, 2011 at 3:16 pm #

    Ronnie Reagan? Really? Jellybeans as brainfood??
    Vald, please, please, start taking your meds again. Self medication with Meth & Booze is really screwing up your head.
    I mean, you are really one fucked-up motherfucker.
    🙂
    p.s. Have you considered penis enlargement surgery? You really should, it might help with all those feelings of inadequacy you have there.
    🙂

  477. k-dog November 23, 2011 at 3:17 pm #

    And as we work our old bones to death marching to work the fields our Chinese overlords will lounge at Starbucks enjoying tea and blond barista servant girls.

  478. k-dog November 23, 2011 at 3:23 pm #

    Like in Tibet

  479. Vlad Krandz November 23, 2011 at 3:29 pm #

    I’s Chicken George!

  480. Vlad Krandz November 23, 2011 at 3:37 pm #

    I do masturbate – onto my garden on the Solstice and at Lugnasad. I’d be glad to do your garden too – free, but you gotta pay my airfare. No guarantees now – I’ll have to take a look before I know whether I can play ball. Airfare is non-refundable.

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  481. k-dog November 23, 2011 at 3:38 pm #

    I met Alex Haley once. He was a very pleasant relaxed and easy going man.

  482. dale November 23, 2011 at 3:51 pm #

    Pepper spray on pizza counts as two vegetables.
    ————————————-
    Now that’s funny.

  483. Buck Stud November 23, 2011 at 3:54 pm #

    ” Oh and btw, if by some miracle, we were to gain power, women would flock to us in droves. Our “repulsive” ideology would not repel them anymore at all.”
    If you mean power in terms of being a “protector” I have to agree with you. In the immediate aftermath of 9/11, I recall a distinct vibe change between the genders. Career women suddenly seemed a bit less independent and metrosexuals were like bull elks in rutting season. Perhaps I Aeven saw a damsel in distress hanging on your arm, but I might have been hallucinating…stressful times, you know.

  484. ctemple November 23, 2011 at 4:03 pm #

    Is this kind of crap really necessary, I don’t like a lot of what Vlad Kranta says, but how is it really worse than Wage bragging about her mother or aunt or whoever having fourteen abortions, or these smart ass atheists that try to shove off their non beliefs on everybody else. Or the leftists that treat the society that prodiced them like it was an outlet mall.
    There was some idiot on here a few weeks ago that looked forward to the day when all the races would disappear and everyone would be a nice light chocolate color. Yech.
    And I don’t remember them taking the kind of abuse you’re wanting to dish out.

  485. dale November 23, 2011 at 4:09 pm #

    Well lets see Dale:
    Rick Ross cult site/ Scandanavian in cahoots with the fake karmapa.
    —————————————-
    I asked about “your” experience, not whatever you could dreg up on the web from “somewhere”.
    It’s no surprise to anyone, myself included, that there are people who abuse things….what’s new?
    I can speak from personal experience, having met a number of Buddhist teachers in multiple traditions and the worst I could say about any of them is they were a little hide bound by traditional ways of doing things.
    I actually spent five days with Sogyal once, not my kind of teacher, but a good writer on the dharma nonetheless.
    Speak at least occasionally from your own experience, we all know how to find things on the Web, truth or not.

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  486. DeeJones November 23, 2011 at 4:15 pm #

    I do masturbate – onto my garden on the Solstice and at Lugnasad. I’d be glad to do your garden too – free, but you gotta pay my airfare. No guarantees now – I’ll have to take a look before I know whether I can play ball. Airfare is non-refundable.
    Ewwww….. no thanks, I don’t want you slapping the pickle in my garden.
    Get back on your meds, please.
    🙁

  487. wagelaborer November 23, 2011 at 4:16 pm #

    I said that about wondering about atheists because you complained about lust in America, and seemed to attribute our current problems to said lust.
    No, you didn’t mention every crime that the US commits. Just that people in the country like to have sex.
    Different people have different morals.

  488. k-dog November 23, 2011 at 4:20 pm #

    Different people have different morals.
    Is that your way of sayin ‘different strokes for different folks’?

  489. wagelaborer November 23, 2011 at 4:23 pm #

    There you leftists go again! Always about the sex!

  490. k-dog November 23, 2011 at 4:42 pm #

    Perhaps so, I am a but a man after all. Yet in a world without god we are all reduced to celibrate humanity and sex does this rather well.
    For those drinking a flavor of kool-aid I’d like to point out that god created sex in your world and he/she/it did not create something repulsive in their own eyes.
    Only a twisted mind links lust to sin. Lust may be inappropriate, that’s all too true but lust is the most natural human passion we have and in it’s place beautiful. Disparagement of sex is disparagement of self or disparagement of god. Take your pick.
    This does not mean that Vlad is free to masturbate in my garden. Gaelic holiday or not. Unless he was being metaphorical in which case I don’t have a garden, that’s twisted.

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  491. dale November 23, 2011 at 5:08 pm #

    You really seem to place a lot of faith in wild internet crap….to put it bluntly. I can’t imagine a worse thing to place your faith in.
    BTW, this is what Lama Yeshe’s reincarnation actually had to say about his time in Tibet.
    “That experience was really good and I so appreciate it. However, certain media find ways to sensationalize and exaggerate an unusual story. So I hope that what appears in news print is not read and taken too literally. Don’t believe everything that is written! Experience shows that however hard one tries in interviews to sincerely and honestly convey key information, the printed result can tend towards sensationalism to get the most attention. FPMT is doing a great job and Lama Zopa is an immensely special person – very inspiring and a great yogi. […] There is no separation between myself and FPMT

  492. anti soak November 23, 2011 at 5:26 pm #

    CT..thats a funny post!

  493. anti soak November 23, 2011 at 5:31 pm #

    Osel Hita Torres.. ‘They dressed me in a yellow hat, they sat me on a throne, people worshipped me … They took me away from my family and put me in a medieval situation in which I suffered a lot. It was like living a lie.’
    dale, compare that with the post you posted that
    started this, about some TV or radio guy [I forget which]..see the similarities?
    Found it:
    . the cult of tradition
    2. rejection of modernism
    3. irrationalism – action for actions sake
    4. disagreement is treason

  494. anti soak November 23, 2011 at 5:34 pm #

    If you liked Sogya, Fine….In LA hes spoken at the
    Directors Guild [?]..
    Others didnt:
    BRIEFING DOCUMENT ON SOGYAL RINPOCHE « Dialogue Ireland
    dialogueireland.wordpress.com/…/briefing-document-on-sogyal-rinp…
    Apr 7, 2009 – The Tibetan lama Sogyal Rimpoche is being sued for $10 million in the ….. Sexual predators like Sogyal Rinpoche are left unpunished and…ad nauseum

  495. Dr_Snooz November 23, 2011 at 5:59 pm #

    Up until this post, I’ve pretty much agreed with your assessments of the European situation. However, the head of the ECB, Jean Claude Trichet, has finally stepped down and taken his single-minded fixation on inflation with him. The new head, Mario Draghi, does seem to understand the ECB has some role to play in this crisis and has been buying the debt of distressed countries. Admittedly, this has been on a limited scale but seems to have been enough to keep Italy out of very hot water in the last debt auction. If the ECB steps into the Euro debt markets in a big way, they could easily stop the crisis. True, member nations would have to allow it to do so and then pass real reform once the crisis is contained. That’s not certain to happen, but France and Germany are at least no longer united in preaching austerity. Watching yields spike on French debt two weeks ago and realizing that they might be the next nation to go down the toilet put the fear of God in France. It’s at least possible that the ECB will crank up the printing presses to deal with the crisis.

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  496. Vlad Krandz November 23, 2011 at 6:12 pm #

    Often these white incarnations are left in Tibet and beaten by the Tibetan Kids.
    One is reminded of the blind Bohemian Moon Dog who became fascinated by American Indians. He left New York and went out to New Mexico to meet some. His fasciantion ended when some little Navajo kids lead him out onto an island on a busy street and left him there. He realized that the Indians were just a visible metaphor for the lost White Trbialism he was seeking.

  497. Vlad Krandz November 23, 2011 at 6:20 pm #

    Now you’re talking. The coming crisis may bring out the best in many of us – if it doesn’t come on too quickly and severely. If it does, then it’s every man for himself and the devil take the hindmost. No giving up our places in the lifeboats for the ladies this time. They’re not ladies and they wouldn’t do the same for us.
    They broke the social contract and now want to invoke it – to get without giving. As T.S Elliot said, the West is Christian. If we lose that, it will take centuries for something else to form – and not one of you would feel comfortable in it. The chivalry was a unique Western trait – it is probably to late to revive it (and not without everything else) and it will not come again.

  498. Bustin J November 23, 2011 at 6:21 pm #

    MessianicDude said, “It will not be until after a while that we will recognize that, none of us are even capable of comprehending all that He is orchestrating to bring about a just resolution to our prediciment. ”
    Okay. Received unjustified belief. Rejected. Next.
    Asoka said “19-year old Jennifer Fox, who was beaten and sprayed last Thursday at the same OWS demonstration in which an 84-year old woman was sprayed, miscarried her three-month fetus on Sunday.”
    I’m down with Occupy, but this chick has been disowned by her foster family as a compulsive liar. In addition, she failed to produce materials that she claimed to have that proved the pregnancy.
    But you can’t fake being 82.

  499. Vlad Krandz November 23, 2011 at 6:25 pm #

    I said I’s Chicken George!
    Wasn’t he conviced for plagairism? Also much of “The Diary of Anne Frank” was written in a ball point pen which didn’t exist at the time. A few years after the publication, the ghost writer sued Anne’s father to get more of the proceeds.

  500. asoka. November 23, 2011 at 6:25 pm #

    But you’re not alone. As Andrew Cohen once said, he never met even one Dharmadatu member who had emotionally dealt with any of this.
    ==============
    Vlad, you seem to believe that Trungpa getting drunk somehow invalidates his teachings. Trungpa was brilliant and his dharma teachings stand on their own. They are not diminished at all by his personal behavior.
    It’s the same with Jesus, who did violent, repugnant, and crazy things in his personal life. But his personal failings do not invalidate his teachings, like those in the Sermon on the Mount.
    Your ad hominem attacks are thoroughly pedestrian. They do not in any way diminish the dharma message of beings like Trungpa, Osho, Gurdjieff, Jesus, Meher Baba, Krishna, Shankara, etc.

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  501. LewisLucanBooks November 23, 2011 at 6:27 pm #

    John Michael Greer (the Arch Druid) is going to be on the radio, tonight. “Coast to Coast.” 1-5am Eastern Time; 10pm – 2am Pacific Time. The “Coast to Coast” website has local stations and times.

  502. asoka. November 23, 2011 at 6:35 pm #

    Hey, Lewis!
    Nice to see you back. Hope all went well in your transition and you are comfortable wherever you are now.

  503. asoka. November 23, 2011 at 6:40 pm #

    If the ECB steps into the Euro debt markets in a big way
    ==================
    These guys can kick the can down the road for decades, stopgap measure after stopgap measure. It is not in the interest of TPTB to have a complete breakdown of the system they profit from.
    But that won’t stop CFN from promoting the most pessimistic visions of the future imaginable.

  504. ABSALOM November 23, 2011 at 7:06 pm #

    So Asoka,
    What if some of these countries join together and begin trading currency for oil other than the U.S. dollar?
    What’s preventing them from doing so now?

  505. wagelaborer November 23, 2011 at 7:35 pm #

    The dead bodies of Saddam Hussein and Ghaddafi?
    The US doesn’t tolerate such talk.

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  506. k-dog November 23, 2011 at 8:03 pm #

    Was he? I don’t know nor care. I’m just saying I met the man once and he was a nice dude who seemed to take an interest in other people. Nice enough for me to remember him thirty years later distinctly.
    My memory of him only amounts to a grain of sand on the infinite beach of history but it is my own true experience and what shapes my opinion of the gentle man.

  507. asoka. November 23, 2011 at 8:06 pm #

    What if some of these countries join together and begin trading currency for oil other than the U.S. dollar? What’s preventing them from doing so now?

    Nothing is preventing them. Oil is quoted in dollars, but in practice other currencies have been used in trading such as the pound sterling, the Dutch guilder, and the Canadian dollar.
    There is nothing sacred about the US dollar. Some OPEC members (such as Iran and Venezuela) have been pushing for a switch to the Euro.

  508. Vlad Krandz November 23, 2011 at 8:20 pm #

    After cheating on him and divorcing him, Hulk Hogan’s wife walks away with 70% of the Estate. And men have equal rights? In what other area of law is the contact breaker rewarded as women routinely are in divorce?
    http://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/yahoo-tv/hulk-hogan-divorce-details-public-210908388.html
    Is even noting this being “anti woman”?

  509. Vlad Krandz November 23, 2011 at 8:25 pm #

    Of course it doesn’t. That’s why Dale Carnegie’s book “How to Win Friends and Influence People” acutally works.
    Just as you don’t care whether Ann Frank’s book is real either. Or rather, to put it more accurately – it IS real because everyone says it is. Just as you think that people who act nice are good.
    A dog in China refuses to leave his master’s grave. That’s a good person. Google it, he’s famous.

  510. Vlad Krandz November 23, 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    Jesus did no such things. And Masters ARE supposed to be better than other people. The long time Roshi of L.A (blanking on the name) was a drunk and had an affair with one of his students. There is a tradition of drinking in Zen, I know. But you see, he handled it correctly. He gathered his students together and apologized for his failings, weeping as he did so. He was forgiven. Trungpa and his gang could never have humbled themselves like this.
    I sat with Osel once when he came to Boston. His whole entourage were creepy – incredibly presumptious and cooler than thou even though wearing suits. Like somehow the worst aspects of art school bohemians meeting corporate asshole culture. He seemed a bit arrogant, but insightful and vibrant. No indication that he was a gay or a monster.

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  511. ak November 23, 2011 at 9:27 pm #

    Helpful User Reviews on Amazon:
    Defense Pepper Spray MK-9 Stream
    http://www.amazon.com/Defense-Technology-56895-Stream-Pepper/dp/B0058EOAUE
    😉
    AK

  512. rippedthunder November 23, 2011 at 9:42 pm #

    Yo Vlad, what are you talking about man? I only sent a link to the Doors song “This is the End”. I think ol’ JHK was referring to the same song when he titled this weeks rant “The Blue Bus is Calling Us”. “This is the EEEEEEEEEEEND” adagio

  513. progress2conserve November 23, 2011 at 9:47 pm #

    Hey CFN. I’ve been busy. Family and holiday stuff.
    Wage – I saw your comment. I still think reducing LEGAL immigration to a more manageable level is the last hope of the US, and maybe of human life on Earth. Just keep thinking about it, all of you.
    IX – I saw your comment. I’m off my game right now. Or, maybe, I’m slowly realizing that the National cake is already baked and the Federal game is rigged. If I can’t help my Country – I’ll have to concentrate on smaller projects. And, especially, concentrate on my own family and kin.
    Been reading a lot of Fred – in my spare time this week. He’s got something to make everybody think. And he’s got something to make anybody mad. Vlad, you need to read him.
    Asoka., you really need to read him.
    He talks a lot about Mexico, where he lives with a Mexican wife.
    Oh well, Happy Thanksgiving – to any of you who hail from countries where such a day is practiced.
    And to the rest of you – happy Thursday.
    “And—here I am on statistically shaky ground, as there are no statistics—the young too often seem to be assimilating to the black underclass rather than to the central white current. Mexican machismo and the ghetto strut of the black underclass have much in common. Rap is popular among low-class Mexican males. It is the music of defiant losers, of macho swagger and rejection of white America.
    Black and Mexican won’t unite. They don’t like each other. Anger will come when the growing and better organized Mexicans take the southwestern cities from the blacks. One country, three nations, little compatibility, and no love lost.”
    -fred reed-
    http://www.fredoneverything.net/Mexicans.shtml

  514. rippedthunder November 23, 2011 at 9:51 pm #

    LLB, How ya been? nice to see ya back. How did ya make out with the store and relocation? RT

  515. Sir Buzzkillington the Third November 23, 2011 at 10:08 pm #

    LOL. You guys are silly. =3

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  516. Sir Buzzkillington the Third November 23, 2011 at 10:09 pm #

    Man, I love my iPod. =)

  517. Sir Buzzkillington the Third November 23, 2011 at 10:10 pm #

    Where would we be without computers? It’d be pretty damn shitty, just saying. You neo-luddites are pretty funny to watch. ^_^

  518. Sir Buzzkillington the Third November 23, 2011 at 10:11 pm #

    The blue bus ain’t calling for us, but the short bus certainly is calling for you, Mr. Kunstler. Please board it immediately, and keep all appendages within the apparatus. Thank you, and have a wonderful day.

  519. MADMAX November 23, 2011 at 10:11 pm #

    Hey JIM K.: is there a way to filter out the trolls from these posts? You need to add a troll filter. Maybe some bright person could invent one, if it does not already exist.

  520. Sir Buzzkillington the Third November 23, 2011 at 10:12 pm #

    Lol, problem?

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  521. rippedthunder November 23, 2011 at 10:13 pm #

    Well then, I am two legs up on the food pyramid! I love the smell of pepper spray in the morning! Sure beats tabasco sause on my MRE’s.

  522. Sir Buzzkillington the Third November 23, 2011 at 10:14 pm #

    Wait! Madmax! I thought bright people didn’t invent anything to do with tech!! Troll filters…that just advances the cause, now don’t it?
    Man…that sucks for you then.

  523. Sir Buzzkillington the Third November 23, 2011 at 10:15 pm #

    Rippedthunder…I love Tabasco. How could you say that? =(

  524. Sir Buzzkillington the Third November 23, 2011 at 10:19 pm #

    You guys make the baby Cthulu cry himself to sleep everynight. Please, think of the Cthulu. Stop your fuckery, please? Kthnx.

  525. asoka. November 23, 2011 at 10:31 pm #

    Jesus did no such things. … And Masters ARE supposed to be better than other people.
    —————-
    Look at what Jesus actually did. It is hard to see him as “better” than us. Jesus was an angry, violent, and hurtful person as demonstrated through his own words and actions.
    “If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children
    and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:26) Loki, loki.
    “I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword” (Gospel of Matthew 10:34) Loki, loki.
    Jesus, in a burst of temper, actually cursed, i.e., used profanity, against an innocent and defenseless fig tree, condemning a beautiful fig tree to perpetual fruitlessness, i.e., death. Loki, loki.
    Jesus entered the temple area and began driving out those who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables violently demonstrating his anger management problem. Loki, loki.
    Jesus demonstrated his cruelty toward those who most loved him when he said “Tell that woman…” “That woman” not even “mother,” complete disrespect, intentional hurtfulness – “Tell that woman that nobody is my mother.” All she wanted to do was love him and Jesus demonstrates incredible egoism and insensitivity toward his own mother, disowning her. Hurtful and hateful behavior. Loki, loki.
    I could go on, because Jesus was so obviously violent, angry, and neurotic, but you will probably come up with excuses to explain away his bizarre and hurtful behavior.
    I will not excuse the behavior, I do not excuse Jesus’ personal failings, his cruelty. It is no wonder they crucified him. He earned his karma.
    But Jesus’ fucked up personal life is separate from, and does not lessen the value of, the teachings on love that came through him, even though Jesus himself was unable to practice what he preached. Loki, loki.

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  526. sevenmmm November 23, 2011 at 10:44 pm #

    You are a prophet with an attitude.

  527. asoka. November 23, 2011 at 11:06 pm #

    Attitude? As in “uppity”? OK. Jesus was Black. I am just calling a spade a spade.
    Jesus’ mother was Afro-Asiatic and probably looked like a typical Yemenite, Trinidadian, or African American of today.
    Consider a few inescapable factors that challenge the traditional perception of the Madonna and Child. In Matt.2:15 and Hos. 11:1 we find the words, “out of Egypt, I have called my son. “
    Egypt has always been part of Africa, despite centuries of European scholarship which has diligently sought to portray Egypt as an extension of southern Europe.
    Literally hundreds of Shrines of the Black Madonna have existed in many parts of North Africa, Europe, and Russia. These are not weather-beaten misrepresentations of some original white Madonna, but uncanny reminders of the original people who inhabited ancient Palestine at the time of Jesus of Nazareth and earlier. The “Sweet Little Jesus Boy” of the Negro spiritual was in fact quite black.

  528. ABSALOM November 23, 2011 at 11:14 pm #

    Fair enough.
    It’s my understanding that other currencies must be valuated in U.S. dollars BEFORE that country CAN purchase oil. Please Google and correct me if wrong. So if the U.S. loses the people’s support to invade or sanction it’s way to continued dollar dominance, it all comes to a close much, much sooner than endless stop gap measures could allow. It’s more and more likely the case that the still groggy American populace will not continue to tolerate that sort of shit much longer, regardless of where one falls on the ideological spectrum. People now FEEL broke, and consumption isn’t the sedative it once was. Do you not notice the seed of revolution growing around you?
    Anyway, your earlier Google search undoubtedly showed you that the British pound sterling preceded the American dollar in trumped up dominance, causing great calamity, socially and economically, as it collapsed virtually overnight. Brits probably didn’t expect it to happen, either, but it did. Point being, their government finagled and maneuvered, I’m sure, as wisely and corruptly as possible, until making the proper misstep sufficient to end the British Empire’s reign. A misstep like a flash grenade in the face of the people, I’ll guess. A second observation that came from reading the vacuity of yet another one of your stop gap measures could go on for probably another 10, 20, or 50 years replies.
    Did you not recognize the contradiction in your own words? You’ve used specific timeline possibilities of 5, 10, 20… oh, you get the point, don’t you? Maybe not. You’re every bit as responsible for supporting your counterclaim while bleating, “ there’s no doom on the horizon, so cease with the pessimism.” STOP hand waiving, already. All things being equal, it should be obvious that the only reason your able to scrounge the “facts” for your everything’s hunky-dory song is because countries haven’t decided to dump the dollar, yet. That’s the only way the stop gap bulshit can continue to forestall the eventual.
    In the first place, Kunstler isn’t making a scientific or even quantitative argument; he is making a qualitative one; he’s extrapolating as best as possible from a not entirely scientific accumulation of information available for all to scrutinize; that’s probably why he started a blog for shits like you and me, to bounce his ideas through the ether; what’s more, strong interpolation for his thoughts isn’t really possible, which for rhetorical purposes is entirely forgivable; wherefore, a lack of pinpoint accuracy doesn’t necessarily disqualify the trend he speaks to.
    For the independent minded, JHK’s claims are not that of a religion either, wherein whichever ass-backward sermon you chose, the word of God is perceived to be unerring. So stop runnin’ your mouth, claiming everyone here is an acolyte.
    If you don’t like the fact that people come here because they generally agree with JHK, then don’t join them.

  529. asoka. November 23, 2011 at 11:18 pm #

    If you don’t like the fact that people come here because they generally agree with JHK, then don’t join them.
    —————-
    Spoken like a true believer, an acolyte.

  530. ABSALOM November 23, 2011 at 11:23 pm #

    That was a bullshit dodge.

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  531. Buck Stud November 23, 2011 at 11:24 pm #

    Boy, reading Fred Reed is like standing on a narrow ledge between freight trains heading in opposite directions – don’t let your agenda get too comfortable.
    His thoughts on Mexico and the drug war were especially illuminating.

  532. rippedthunder November 23, 2011 at 11:39 pm #

    I love tabasco on my eggs, but I much prefer pepper spray up my nose and in my eyes. I say bypass the alimentary canal and go straight for the nerve center!

  533. asoka. November 23, 2011 at 11:52 pm #

    Hey, Asoka. Thanks for taking the dissenting position here on this blog.

    You are welcome, Absalom. It is all part of not being a true believer or an acolyte in the church of doomsterism.

  534. asoka. November 24, 2011 at 12:00 am #

    What OWS Wants
    1. Eradicate the Bush tax cuts for the rich and institute new taxes on the wealthiest Americans and on corporations, including a tax on all trading on Wall Street (where they currently pay 0%).
    2. Assess a penalty tax on any corporation that moves American jobs to other countries when that company is already making profits in America. Our jobs are the most important national treasure and they cannot be removed from the country simply because someone wants to make more money.
    3. Require that all Americans pay the same Social Security tax on all of their earnings (normally, the middle class pays about 6% of their income to Social Security; someone making $1 million a year pays about 0.6% (or 90% less than the average person). This law would simply make the rich pay what everyone else pays.
    4. Reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act, placing serious regulations on how business is conducted by Wall Street and the banks.

  535. rippedthunder November 24, 2011 at 12:10 am #

    Ah, Glasshopper, you speak the truth!

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  536. Vlad Krandz November 24, 2011 at 1:51 am #

    Sorry Rt – I inadvertantly used you to get to the bottom of the page. I try to use only Monday posters for that. But while I got you – that’s a pretty tame version of the song. Where’s
    the “Father, I want to kill you. Mother, I want to @$%&!!!! you.
    It is a beautiful song though. The hobos call death “taking the Westbound”. All ka’s (souls) seek to follow Osiris as he goes into his paradise in the West.

  537. Vlad Krandz November 24, 2011 at 1:58 am #

    I do read him sometimes – he’s cool. He is friendly with White Nationalists and has spoken at the Amren Conference before. He isn’t one obviously, but he knows Whites are getting seriously fucked over by the US Goverment. He knows all about low Black IQ and high Black criminality and in short, is on speaking terms with all the things you desperately try to pretend away.

  538. ABSALOM November 24, 2011 at 1:59 am #

    Hey, Asoka. Thanks for taking the dissenting position here on this blog.
    You are welcome, Absalom. It is all part of not being a true believer or an acolyte in the church of doomsterism.
    =================================================
    There you go again, cherry picker. Stupid one or two liners enabling you to weasel out of the corner you’ve walked yourself into won’t work on me. At all times I’ve retained my ability to correct my view when presented with good reason. I’ve considered better counterarguments than yours to people like JHK and found them all wanting. Still I remain open.
    Don’t lie to yourself; you’re not the voice of dissent; you’re the voice of contrarianism. I do appreciate well justified dissent, but you only craft straw men, and then bet that no one will notice the trickery. Being new to this blog , I mistook your seemly skill to turn a phrase as an ability to think critically. Wrong was I. You’ve been discovered, fact collector.
    When thought out, it becomes clear that you’ve chosen to hide underneath JHK’s blog bridge and bamboozle an audience you couldn’t muster on your own. If JHK is “wrong” because things don’t go down the drain quickly enough, you will argue that you were right because his timeline was off. You’re just betting the margin of error, like a petty gambler. If he is right, you will be kidnapped post apocalypse by a band of marauders and kept locked in a cellar as last resort meat.
    Have at it, sneaky guy. I certainly won’t make the mistake of considering you original, anymore. Nor will I trouble you to respond to elements of my earlier post, which you’ve cleverly avoided. You, Vlad and a couple others can go back to the circle jerk internet cafe. I won’t dare interrupt.
    LATERZ

  539. Vlad Krandz November 24, 2011 at 2:00 am #

    You are a serious asshole. Is that what you want to hear, bloki?

  540. Vlad Krandz November 24, 2011 at 2:03 am #

    The Shroud of Turin shows Jesus to be a White Man of noble proportions with sharp, beautiful, masculine White Features. No thick lips or flat nose here buster.

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  541. AMR November 24, 2011 at 2:57 am #

    Although I’m heavily invested in stocks, I agree with your arguments as they apply to a large swath of the stock market.
    Most of my net worth is invested in a portfolio of high-dividend yield oil and aerospace stocks. The overall yield from this portfolio is on the order of 3.5% using current share prices and 4.25% using the cost bases for my holdings. These are rough mental calculations, but the salient points from my personal perspective as an investor are, first, that this yield is much higher than I would be paid by a bank for the same principal and, second, that the dividends are a substantial source of cash flow and an effective insurance policy against share price losses.
    From a social perspective, I consider dividend-paying stocks one of the most effectively and ethically managed capital markets currently in operation. Dividends reward the sort of long-term investment that is most beneficial to companies in need of capital, and they discourage flaky or manipulative short-term investing, much of which constitutes not capital investment but gambling. In my opinion, the dividend-paying portion of the stock market has shown much more prudence and probity in recent years than the banks, which have contorted themselves into high-stakes compulsive gambling operations and specious fee rackets that bear no relation to retail banks a generation or two ago.
    One of my main grievances with today’s stock market is that, on the whole, it punishes virtue and rewards vice. To judge from recent news reports, most of the professional investor class is consumed by speculative bubble inflation, Nervous Nellie stampedes, pump-and-dump schemes and similar activities that are useless at best and fraudulent at worst. Amateur investors are routinely talked into buying investment products that they in no way understand. I was talked into buying a small stake in United Airlines in mid-2001; UAL of course proved to be a garbage stock, and due in part to my steadfast buy-and-hold strategy I was wiped out when the company declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy. I was also talked into opening a Roth IRA whose utility I truly do not understand, in spite of all the carrying on about tax advantages; it has performed more poorly than my main portfolio and has practically no fungibility in the event of drastic losses. I’m glad that I contributed as little as I did, and I have no intent of making further contributions. I consider the entire mutual fund/IRA model inscrutably opaque and needlessly complex.
    I don’t believe a word out of the mouths of stock analysts unless I have independently confirmed it from credible reports about the company in question. More than a few stock analysts are corrupt, and almost the whole lot of the remainder are out to lunch.

  542. jackieblue2u November 24, 2011 at 3:13 am #

    Jesus shmeezus.
    how can any of you / us know wtf he did or said ?
    it’s 2011, he’s long gone if he was ever here to begin with.
    It’s a story conconcted to have control over the masses.
    God….now that’s another subject.
    Arguing over religion. Arguing over Republican or Democrat. Divide and Conquer.
    just my thoughts on this tonite.

  543. jackieblue2u November 24, 2011 at 3:19 am #

    Under the Mexican Moonlight !
    nice.

  544. jackieblue2u November 24, 2011 at 3:22 am #

    Watching that COP pepperspray all those PEOPLE on the ground, MADE ME MAD.
    I told my friend and he said well yeah, but in other countries they just shoot and kill you.
    2 wrongs don’t make a right.
    pepper spray in your eyes is sickening,and throat, etc. it freaking burns like hell. That cop needs some in his eyes. for cryin’ out loud….. these are college kids.

  545. asoka. November 24, 2011 at 3:26 am #

    Vlad, I demolished your claim that “Jesus did no such thing” by citing chapter a verse from the Christian Bible proving Jesus was an asshole. You also got the “Masters should be better than us” wrong. I also proved Jesus is Black. Loki, loki.
    I find it very amusing that you, a white separatist, are following a Black god-figure. Loki, loki.

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  546. jackieblue2u November 24, 2011 at 3:30 am #

    Regarding Hulk and his divorce. My point of view.
    Sometimes the man treats HER so badly, but oh no he won’t leave, no SHE can do that. as in ‘just get the **** out’, ‘of MY house’. she probably heard that. well she may have. alot of us Do.
    Just because she FILED does not mean that she is to blame for the pain and all. She might be, but
    some guys provoke and provoke, but NO WAY they are going to take responsibility and leave. No they have to make sure she does that so that THEY can say ‘oh poor me, or She’s the one who left’.
    A woman that is being treated well isn’t going to leave.
    There are Mean Men and there are Mean women.
    I don’t know why she got 70%. How come not half and half.

  547. asoka. November 24, 2011 at 3:31 am #

    God….now that’s another subject.
    =================
    No, God was also concocted to control the masses. If you don’t believe in God, we were told, you can go to hell. So be good. God is watching.

  548. jackieblue2u November 24, 2011 at 3:35 am #

    Thanks for the link. going there now, then to sleepy I hope.
    Happy Thanksgiving to you and (most) others !

  549. asoka. November 24, 2011 at 3:36 am #

    how can any of you / us know wtf he did or said ?
    ===================
    Damn, Jackieblue, you mean they never taught you what they taught me in Christian summer camp? Well, here it is: What Jesus said and did is indicated by the RED letters in the Christian Holy Bible.

  550. asoka. November 24, 2011 at 3:45 am #

    Happy Thanksgiving, ProCon.
    So nice we have a holiday when we can be thankful for so many new immigrants arriving every day, even though the original reason for thankfulness was that the Native Americans saved the colonists’ assess. To thank the Native Americans we then proceeded to subject them to genocide.

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  551. zeefzoyjq November 24, 2011 at 4:24 am #

    One day on a child to understand what ‘s being ignored —— even if she does not , but also ideas and her , she teased her heart not to give up ~~~~~ Drum is the flu. { there is }

  552. Eleuthero November 24, 2011 at 5:07 am #

    Absalom … “Word to the wise: Part Two” … once you start in with Asoka, who practically lives on this blog, you’ll find yourself fighting non-sequiturs, straw men, dodges and weaves, and claims about your arguments that you never made.
    Although Asoka isn’t the ball of pent-up rage that is Metusaleh, the guy thinks he’s the Buddha incarnate so most of his bullshit is uttered from a “pulpit” fifty feet high. If you simply engage in “nonviolent noncooperation” with those two by SHUNNING them, you’ll find life herein to be much more enjoyable.
    E.

  553. Eleuthero November 24, 2011 at 5:14 am #

    I don’t mean to be contentious since you and I are usually on the same page on most issues but “oil and aerospace stocks”?? I don’t know if it’s possible to find two industries more representative of American hypocrisy, imperialism, and pure greed than these two industries.
    Their dividends are, indeed, as high as they come but I don’t find that fact to represent “virtue” in these two industries since they’re more subsidized on an ongoing basis than the failing INVESTMENT BANKING industry.
    Whatever investment “theories” I espouse on a STATISTICAL basis, there’s no way I’d put my money in those two particular industries. They are corporate satans in my book.
    E.

  554. asoka. November 24, 2011 at 8:31 am #

    Absalom, E. is one of the most respected contributors to CFN. You would do well to heed E.’s advice re: Asoka. Don’t even bother to read what Asoka writes. Just scroll past and shun Asoka as E. advises. That is the best and least immature thing to do.

  555. lbendet November 24, 2011 at 9:11 am #

    Wishing CFNers a happy Thanksgiving.
    I will be going over the river and through the woods later today, but before I do, I just want to say that we are all on this blog because we see that our system is unsustainable in the way we know it and some big changes are afoot. Peak energy, peak finance, peak globalism, peak non-ending war to build taxpayer money for the private contractors…..
    We all have witnessed since 2008 that this isn’t collapsing quickly, but is continuing as the top is feeding on the bottom 99%.
    It doesn’t matter how rich you think you are or what you think you own, if you’re not in the inside you and what you own is up for grabs. It’s endemic of a system that has gone bad for 30 years and the rot is finally showing, the illusions stripped away.
    But that doesn’t mean they can’t continue this as long as they can. This thing is coming out of the think tanks, academia and power brokers and it isn’t going to change, since these people are fooling themselves. The neocons at Heritage foundation are guiding the Republican candidates foreign policy agenda.
    So, we all know what happened in Iraq, but that isn’t making any impact of their thinking and we have unlimited funds for more $trillion wars, while all govt. service must be privatized.
    It’s a fundamentalist belief system and you can’t use logic with them. They are plowing ahead because it works for them
    Thanksgiving for them is a happy warm time as the amount of money and power they wield is greater than ever. Nobody will go after them because they change the laws to suit themselves, so it’s more, more, more of the same.
    As we know in our hearts money doesn’t buy anyone anything internal or spiritually, so there is a gap and that gap is a sickness. Now we are all feeling the symptoms.
    Working on an ongoing project, I was listening to my usual streaming videos from Max Keiser and Webster Tarpeley. Something Tarpeley said reminded me of this blog. He said the CIA in Syria is doing the same old thing they do everywhere: Divide and conquer.
    Although it’s fine to debate ideas on this blog, I can’t help but think there is something so useless about arguing over race and religion issues as if you can’t change anyone’s mind on these subjects. What does any of this matter matter if you’re all losing ground at the same time regardless of those differences?
    The OWSers seem to understand this intrinsically and that is their success.

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  556. ozone November 24, 2011 at 9:24 am #

    Absalom,
    Yes, you would do well to heed E.’s advice and just scrollllll on by.
    You’ll save yourself from a manure-spreader-load of irrelavencies, bullshit bloviations, contention for the sake of bulk, and theories constructed of papier-mache (made from selected “newspaper”, wank-juice and flour-paste).
    In my [calm but ever-present] paranoia, I think a few posters are paid obfuscators and distractionary agent provocateurs. Strictly to put one off of “the matter at hand”. (They tend to “squat where they want”, sayeth Cheech. ;o)
    …But that’s just me. (To be certain!)

  557. ozone November 24, 2011 at 9:39 am #

    ^irrelevancies^

  558. ozone November 24, 2011 at 9:43 am #

    Niiiiice; and only around 80 bucks!
    Did you see the reviews below? Perfect. (Biting satire [appropriately] rears its’ vengeful head!)

  559. ozone November 24, 2011 at 9:54 am #

    …Time to count my blessings.
    Thank somebody (preferably another yuman bean) fer sumpthin’ today, we’ll all feel just a tad better!
    Thanks for giving us a yell, LLB. See yez ’round the horse barn soon!

  560. charliefoxtrot November 24, 2011 at 9:58 am #

    sense i get is some people are just contrary distractionists; as to being paid for it, well…of course there s always the conspiracy theorists’ question: “am i too paranoid? maybe, but am i paranoid enough?”

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  561. wagelaborer November 24, 2011 at 11:08 am #

    Hi, lbendet.
    I was listening to Max Keiser also. He was talking about the collapse of Global and the fact that the Koch brothers got the “first call” and how the richest get that first call, while the small investors pay. They never know what’s coming, until it does.
    Divide and conquer, all right. My Syrian co-worker went to Paris for a two week “reunion”, and of course I accused him of working for the CIA to destroy his country. He denies it, but he always has been for destroying his country. Even though he was appalled by the destruction of Iraq. And a million Iraqi refugees went to Syria. Do they really have to go through the hell of Iraq again, in Syria?
    It’s all so wrong. I am impressed with E’s refusal to profit from death and destruction.

  562. mika. November 24, 2011 at 11:09 am #

    Jesus was an angry, violent, and hurtful person as demonstrated through his own words and actions.
    ==
    You’re on a roll, Asoka. Now, apply these insights that you’ve accumulated to that other region. You know the one. That religion of peace. The religion that likes to hack people’s limbs off with allah’s sword.

  563. lbendet November 24, 2011 at 11:26 am #

    Yeah, Wage
    Heard that one too. (Max + The K. bros. 1rst call).
    That is the Murder Inc. enterprise we have become. We sell the tear gas to the Egyptians, we gin up war for profit for the few. The world is their oyster, so as long as it works for them we’re stuck!
    You read “The Shock Doctrine” you know the drill.

  564. charliefoxtrot November 24, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    it just occurred to me that what is driving the conservative narrative is a combination of macchiavelli (Q?) and dale carnegie…both of which i read, but just couldn t get my mind around, at least in terms of accepting as viable, desirable mindset…but i think i see elements in the mindless repetiton of “talking points” aimed at the lizards, lip service in saying the right things even while demonstrably doing the opposite (witness for example anything newt g(ett)ingrich has said or done…), endless wars and threats…

  565. ABSALOM November 24, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    Yes, you would do well to heed E.’s advice and just scrollllll on by.
    You’ll save yourself from a manure-spreader-load of irrelavencies, bullshit bloviations, contention for the sake of bulk, and theories constructed of papier-mache (made from selected “newspaper”, wank-juice and flour-paste).
    ====================================================
    There are some really humorous, acerbic writers here. I’m going to learn a lot. Point received, OZONE.

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  566. anti soak November 24, 2011 at 11:46 am #

    Shroud of Turin, Carbon tests say is 700 years old.
    Did technology exist 2000 years ago to weave such cloth?

  567. ABSALOM November 24, 2011 at 11:53 am #

    Well, he’s definitely a smart person, so I was hopping some insight could be gained to better my own limited understanding of all the junk happening, but……

  568. Widespreadpanic7 November 24, 2011 at 11:58 am #

    Hey Ibendet does the Macy Parade go by your house?
    Heard John Michael Greer on C2C last nite … discussed, amongst other subjects, peal oil. He said conventional oil production peaked in 2005. Not to worry, we’re on a ‘plateau’ that might last decades. He didn’t sound to alarmed about ‘peak oil’.
    Happy Thanksgiving, CFNers!
    –WSP7

  569. wagelaborer November 24, 2011 at 11:58 am #

    Speaking of divide and conquer.
    Jon Corzine is a Democrat and the Koch brothers are Republicans.
    While the little people fight about their D or R status, the big guys don’t care. They’re in it for the money.

  570. ABSALOM November 24, 2011 at 12:03 pm #

    If you simply engage in “nonviolent noncooperation” with those two by SHUNNING them, you’ll find life herein to be much more enjoyable.
    ==================================================
    Thanks,
    ABSALOM

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  571. wagelaborer November 24, 2011 at 12:16 pm #

    Well, yes, newt. But also Obama.
    Note that he pays lip service to the 99%, but deep throats the 1%.
    I watch Democracy Now, instead of corporate media. You know, Ford foundation sponsored news. Anyway, I watched Obama smoothly lead the sheep from attacking the health insurance companies into supporting their massive enrichment.
    http://wagelaborer.blogspot.com/2010/03/i-forgive-you-dennis.html
    I think that my working for Dennis Kucinich in 2004 was how I got on the Democrat mailing list, by the way.

  572. lbendet November 24, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

    Agreed–the real national religion in this country is money and they worship it with every move they make.
    About E. and the moral choice—That’s why E. is one of my favorite bloggers on this site.
    He’s got the real values. If everyone invested like that the message would be loud and clear.
    My guy invested in Apple when it looked like it was going out of business in the late ’90’s. I asked him why and he said that it was how he made his living as a Mac consultant and therefore he wanted to invest in something he believed in, even if it wasn’t going to work out.–Needless to say he has done well.

  573. Buck Stud November 24, 2011 at 12:49 pm #

    In the spirit of jumping the gun, as well as sitting on my ass, I just thought of the perfect reason not to rake my leaves this year. After the shit really hits the fan, and hi-tech gadgetry becomes a foggy memory, fallen leaves will provide the perfect security system in a post collapse setting. Or at least for those who haven’t blown their ears out with their I-Pods.
    The abrupt sudden rustling of leaves most likely indicates an animal such as a squirrel. The very even rhythm of rustling leaves is most likely a human. And a very slow and even rhythm is most likely a human with ill intent such as a burglar or a spouse/girlfriend trying to nail you watching the hidden cam section of XHampster.
    Just spread them around the exterior of your house and keep the sound down – which apparently is no problem for Asoka.
    Nature provides!

  574. charliefoxtrot November 24, 2011 at 1:01 pm #

    by no means does he escape my judgement either! my brother pointed out to me that no way would We The People have bought for a dollar or put up with another republican appointment; that obama was a sop and a place-holder…i used to argue that we owed obama a second term and the opportunity to make things right- he was after all trying to clean up after w…i realize in hindsight that i ve been gradually losing my enthusiasm and support for him and his policies because frankly there doesn t appear to be any real hope for change- and i never figured he would close gitmo b/c i think there are top secret things going on which he would only be made privy to as pres, so that s not why…the cylindrical plastic suction device which broke the camel’s back was the assassinations of americans by drone…i can no longer support what has been shown to be an illusion and a sham, and a blatant criminal on the order of cheney or rumsfeld…what else do you call the solicitation of murder?!

  575. k-dog November 24, 2011 at 1:42 pm #

    “The National cake is already baked and the Federal game is rigged. If I can’t help my Country – I’ll have to concentrate on smaller projects. And, especially, concentrate on my own family and kin.”
    I feel your pain buddy.

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  576. k-dog November 24, 2011 at 1:46 pm #

    “what else do you call the solicitation of murder?”
    The American Way.

  577. Qshtik November 24, 2011 at 2:18 pm #

    The overall yield from this portfolio is on the order of 3.5% using current share prices and 4.25% using the cost bases for my holdings.
    ==============
    I, too, have been easing my portfolio toward dividend paying stocks but so far I’m unconvinced it’s actually a superior strategy than owning non-div payers. For example, take your figures above:
    If the stocks you bought when they yielded 4.25% are now yielding 3.5% the stocks themselves would have to have risen by 21.43%, ceteris paribus. The DOW has gained a measly .63% over the one year period ended yesterday. If your portfolio of hi-div payers increased 21.43% over that span that would be remarkable.
    For my own edification, since you have caused me to think about this subject, I will conduct a little study and suggest that you do the same. Namely: I have several “watchlists” of high-div stocks. I’ll calculate the % change in the stock price of each over the past one year, give them an equal dollar weighting and determine the average percentage change, plus or minus.
    Just eyeballing these hi-div watchlists (as I do every day) my impression is they invariably move the same direction as the major averages (DOW, Nasdaq, S&P) but with a lower beta (i.e. a 2% down day for the S&P might be only a 1.5% down day for the hi-div stocks … or something like that).
    And then there’s the danger of the hi-div payers that suddenly reduce or eliminate their dividend which makes the stock tank. Take Citi as an example.

  578. Cavepainter November 24, 2011 at 3:15 pm #

    Oh yeah, according to the gospel of the Left, Eden can be regained. All that is needed is to deconstruct history by building backwards.
    That’s right, it really is Biblical: belief that acts of penance will reap miracles – reality be damned. The miracle in this instance is that a manna suited to our times will rain down, bringing fulfillment of every type (water, food, material resources, range and homeland) to the globe’s overpopulation.
    Yep; all will dance around in jubilation, carrying on in their accustomed ways without rubbing up against one another in way that might cause clash no matter how diverse.
    And know what’s really neat? All these Lefties can feel cleansed of guilt, born in the belief that only Eurocentric Caucasians (you know, the White Devils) have been guilty of political incorrectness in history.
    It’s a sun-shiny, optimistic view: There really isn’t an overpopulation problem. If everyone would just shorten the time they spend in the shower – or maybe just give up washing out their tooth brush – and become vegan then global population could be comfortably redistributed, and even without crushing species diversity as well.
    Feel good now? No more of this worry about securing borders against tsunami of migrating, distressed millions which will swamp prospect of sustainability in those few places not yet overpopulated.
    And what’s really amazing; all cultural belief systems will immediately dial up to conformance with 21st Century, objective view of reality. So, we’ll all be on the same hymnal page, so to speak.

  579. Vlad Krandz November 24, 2011 at 3:27 pm #

    Many foods (like Turkey) are 20% higher than last year. And what is the inflation rate? Something like 4%? In which case, you guys are just breaking even – a real accomplishment compared to most.
    In any case, let us give Thanks a la Obama to the Indians for Socialism. The Pilgrims thanked God for His Bounty, but that so yesterday. I like you cuz you’re one of the Now People.

  580. mika. November 24, 2011 at 3:28 pm #

    If you simply engage in “nonviolent noncooperation” with those two by SHUNNING them, you’ll find life herein to be much more enjoyable.
    ==
    LOL! That serpent tongue hypocrite “EL TORO” has been saying this for a while. But every time I tear that hypocrite a new one, he goes on to attack me personally for my “pent-up rage” for pointing out the obvious.
    He works for the gov mafia machine and then complains that the gov mafia machine is not receiving enough obedient workers. That unlike the idiots of his generation, the new generation of kids are not interested in becoming another fascist borg.
    This is what you are “EL TORO”. Take a good look:
    http://goo.gl/KHwBa

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  581. Vlad Krandz November 24, 2011 at 3:30 pm #

    And the greatest repentance and cleansing is to implicate and condemn other Whites who do not share the new religion. Get them fired from their jobs? Great. Turn them into personnel for racism or sexism? Even better. Political Correctness is a religion of Human Sacrafice.

  582. asoka. November 24, 2011 at 4:03 pm #

    Absalom, when there is a church with a religious doctrine (or in our CFN case, a secular doctrine) and someone deviates from the norm, shunning has been the recommended way to deal with the person who does not conform to the belief system. Shunning has its roots in Christian scripture (New Testament, 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 and Matthew 18:15–17) It worked for them 2,000 years ago. It does not work on an open anonymous internet blog.

  583. Vlad Krandz November 24, 2011 at 4:23 pm #

    Source?

  584. dale November 24, 2011 at 4:36 pm #

    dale, compare that with the post you posted that
    started this, about some TV or radio guy [I forget which]..see the similarities?
    1. the cult of tradition
    2. rejection of modernism
    3. irrationalism – action for actions sake
    4. disagreement is treason
    Good Question…..so Ill give you the best answer I can…… point by point. As I mentioned in my post, I thought the lamas could be conservative at times, maybe too much so. Some reject modernism and some don’t, the Dali Lama is an excellent amateur scientist, for example. I’ve never even HEARD of anyone accusing the Buddhist’s as committed to “action for actions sake”….in fact the idea is kinda funny. There is absolutely no absolutism in Buddhist, so it would hardly be treason to disagree. The Budda himself wrote a suttra which is called the “sutta of open inquiry” in which he pretty much said the key tenants (so to speak) of Buddhism were not inviolable.
    Regards your other posts, they don’t do the above question justice. If we decide which human organizations are O.K – based on how free they are of people who do things they shouldn’t have, or who contain people we simply don’t understand – we’ll be sitting alone in a cave somewhere by ourselves pretty quickly. I mean, can you even THINK of any large group of people in human history that would be free of such people.
    Lastly, I don’t know who the “TV or radio guy” is you’re talking about. If you mean Umberto Eco, you might Google him.

  585. asoka. November 24, 2011 at 4:37 pm #

    SOURCE: Nature; 2/16/89, Vol. 337 Issue 6208, p611.
    There is your source, Vlad. Samples of the Shroud of Turin have been dated by accelerator mass spectrometry.
    Unfortunately for you and your longing to believe in the Jesus myth, there is conclusive proof that the Shroud is medieval and not from the earlier time of Jesus.
    Nature is a respected scientific publication. Here is the complete citation: Damon, P.E., and D.J. Donahue. “Radiocarbon Dating Of The Shroud Of Turin. (Cover Story).” Nature 337.6208 (1989): 611.

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  586. dale November 24, 2011 at 4:44 pm #

    nice post!

  587. dale November 24, 2011 at 4:49 pm #

    It’s the same with Jesus, who did violent, repugnant, and crazy things in his personal life. But his personal failings do not invalidate his teachings, like those in the Sermon on the Mount.
    —————————————-
    I know where you coming from here, but its not something you can really explain anyway, so don’t even try!

  588. asoka. November 24, 2011 at 4:56 pm #

    Thanks, dale, but I would like to try, in four words:
    Ethics derives from ontology.

  589. asoka. November 24, 2011 at 5:23 pm #

    Same idea, in four words, in Latin:
    adaequatio intellectus et rei
    =====================
    I love a beautiful story about Gautam Buddha. One morning a man asked him, “I am an atheist, I do not believe in God. What do you say about God?”
    And Buddha said, “God exists, and God exists more than you exist.” His disciples were shocked, particularly Ananda, who was always just by his side.
    That very day, in the afternoon, another man came and said, “I am a believer, a theist. I believe in the existence of God. What do you say about God?”
    And Buddha said, “There is no God, and there has never been any. God does not exist at all.”
    Now it was becoming more puzzling – not to those people, but to those who had heard both answers.
    In the evening a third man came. Only Ananda was present. The man touched the feet of Gautam Buddha, sat there, and said, “I don’t know anything about God. Will you help me a little?”
    Buddha closed his eyes, and sat silently.
    Ananda was even more puzzled, because that man also closed his eyes and sat silently. One hour passed, and then the man opened his eyes and he said, “How can I thank you? I don’t have any words. You have answered my question.” With tears in his eyes of joy and gratitude, he touched the feet of Buddha, kissed the feet of Buddha, and went away.
    Now Ananda was going mad! He was waiting for this moment, when there was nobody else. He closed the doors and said, “This is too much. You will drive us insane! To one man you say God exists. On the same day you say to another man that God does not exist. And on the same day to the third man you don’t answer, you simply sit in silence – and he receives the answer, and with tears of gratitude he kisses your feet. What is going on? Where do we stand? What is our philosophy?”
    And Gautam Buddha said, “Relax, it is time to go to sleep. And remember, none of the questions were yours. Why did you hear the answers? Can’t you be a little more alert, that I am answering the question of this particular man in a particular context? You are not that man – neither is the question yours nor is the answer for you. Why should you bother? It has nothing to do with you. And as far as I am concerned, I have been absolutely consistent all three times.
    — Osho, Journey without End

  590. Alexandra November 24, 2011 at 6:35 pm #

    @ asoka
    Sometimes the truth hurts… and sometimes it feels real good. Nothing is sacred, doubt in everything is…
    And just before Gautam Buddha finally popped his clogs, this is exactly what he told his followers… ‘Be lamps unto yourselves’…
    A perfect mantra for today’s OWS’ers indeed, as what it translates to in 21st century speak is this:
    Q U E S T I O N A U T H O R I T Y !!

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  591. Vlad Krandz November 24, 2011 at 6:51 pm #

    For that you will be judged. Indeed for every idle word…I would behoove you to make sure your idle words aren’t so malicious.

  592. Vlad Krandz November 24, 2011 at 6:57 pm #

    Yes, but the Lamas and Siddhas as supposed to be above such bad behavoir. It wasn’t his organization that failed alone – but Trungpa himself. Asoka’s idea that spirituality is something that can be separated from morality is garbage. Why follow someone who can’t even keep the basic precepts as well as you yourself can?
    So Buddhism has no tenets? So the Self is eternal after all? There is a God? There is only one life? There is no Karma, no Moral Law? Dale, buddy, you gotta try harder.

  593. zaxylmls November 24, 2011 at 7:00 pm #

  594. DeeJones November 24, 2011 at 7:28 pm #

    OSHO – This wouldn’t be the same one formerly known as Bagwan Rahjneesh, who collected $100,000 Rolls Royces?
    Even tho I disagree with the legal persecution of him and his cult by the Reagun admin, I also know a few persons that joined his cult, and came back out of it seriously, very seriously disillusioned.
    Unfortunately, it was at a time when many young Westerners were also seriously questioning Christian religion, and looking elsewhere for answers.
    Many fake “Masters” came here, but the only Enlightenment they really offered was of the bank account. While they lived in mansions on large estates, drove Rolls, and had yachts and jets, many of their devotees lived like medieval serfs.
    In the end, this left many with a serious disillusionment that turned them into the horrible, materialists that are now the so-called Masters of the Universe.
    Well, we can see where that has gotten us all, we are about to be sucked down a big, black hole by them. (Vlad, the term Black Hole here is a technical term, not referring to a Black persons anus, so don’t be afraid, at least of that).
    So, the point is that even tho OSHO relates an interesting Buddhist lesson, I have no respect for that particular “teacher”.
    😐

  595. Widespreadpanic7 November 24, 2011 at 7:47 pm #

    I remember when this was a peak oil site!
    Hey Asoka, who gives a f–k what Gatauma Buddha said? Blah, blah, blah! Buddhism has to be the biggest pile of bullshit going. Weren’t the Japs all Shinto Buddhists when they wiped out half of China in 1937? Beside, what do these bullshit eastern religions have to do with peak oil? Aren’t there other sites that cover that bullshit?
    –WSP7

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  596. DeeJones November 24, 2011 at 8:49 pm #

    PEAK OIL! Right WSP7:
    Please check out postings on TheOilDrum.com for more information.
    Now, back to JHK’s poorly managed and non-moderated blog.
    Begin racial blathering anytime now Vlad….
    Happy Turkey day, unless you are a turkey that is.
    :]

  597. asoka. November 24, 2011 at 9:55 pm #

    Widespread, it is very rare I feel I can contribute something relating to military history, but here goes: From 1868 until WWII the official religion of Japan was State Shinto, not Buddhism.
    In Shinto the emperor was considered God. Shinto literally means “way of the Gods.” Shinto is Japanese.
    In Buddhism there is no God. Buddhism is one of the world’s many ATHEISTIC RELIGIONS. Buddhism comes from India.
    Further, Buddhism has religious branches in the form of Theravada and Mahayana whereas Shinto has no such religious sects.
    Shinto worships the forces of nature, polytheism and animism whereas Buddhism is all about following an ethical code of conduct in one’s life and practice meditation and renunciation.
    Please stop accusing the Buddhists of wiping out half of China in 1937.

  598. asoka. November 24, 2011 at 10:13 pm #

    WSP& said: “I remember when this was a peak oil site!”
    =============================
    I am always happy to talk about peak oil. Whenever I do, inevitably I am called a troll because I do not follow the JHK catechism. Seven years ago, in the summer of 2004 Matt Savinar was predicting imminent TEOTWAWKI, and telling folks to run for the hills. Now, seven years later, I can go out on the street, and nothing whatsoever has changed since 2004. The streets are still clogged with cars going on mindless journeys. People are sleeping in their cars with the engine running to power the air-conditioning. The global economy weakening pushed oil prices down this week. Gas is under $3.00 a gallon in many parts of the USA. Food availability is completely normal. Thanksgiving dinner was possible because the grocery shelves are full. Where I live, in the southwest, I can go out to eat for $3.50 (three dollars and fifty cents) for lunch. YMMV. Or all you can eat Asian buffet (freshly prepared food) for $5.50. Wasn’t peak oil supposed to cause food prices to spike?
    The Oil Drum doesn’t even bother with new posts anymore. Just recycled versions of the same old posts, flopping over and over like a flat tire, wump wump wump. Quite a comedown from the heady days of A Nosedive Toward the Desert in 2007.
    Peak oil is yesterday’s party. The IEA is yawning and predicting oversupply of oil until 2015. Lucky us. Four more years of people saying: “I remember when this was a peak oil site!”
    OK, I’m putting on my flak jacket and helmet, preparing for incoming … that is if there is anyone left who has shown their juvenile nature by “shunning” me.

  599. anti soak November 25, 2011 at 12:08 am #

    OSHO/Rajneesh:
    There are at least 3 good exposes on him.
    His bodyguard knew him well and relates how
    ‘Going to INS he wore his million dollar wristwatch for the first time, no doubt to impress the INS
    agent’!

  600. anti soak November 25, 2011 at 12:13 am #

    Happy thanksgiving to those who celebrate.
    This dialog started with you posting about
    Glenn Beck [?] [‘TV or radio guy]’.
    I dont claim to be an expert on Buddhism.
    I see it as an offshoot of Hinduism.
    Some Tibetan Buddhists even venerate Ganesh!
    Like Vlad I see Dharmadhatu as a dysfunctional family.
    If yr experience of TB orgs has been very positive, fine.

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  601. anti soak November 25, 2011 at 12:15 am #

    ‘Why follow someone who can’t even keep the basic precepts as well as you yourself can?’
    Some people are followers.
    Me I prefer to be independent and applaud those
    who unmask predators like Sogyal and Trungpa.

  602. asoka. November 25, 2011 at 12:24 am #

    OSHO
    Osho is one of only two authors whose entire works have been placed in the Library of India’s National Parliament in New Delhi (the other is Mahatma Gandhi )

  603. asoka. November 25, 2011 at 12:43 am #

    Dr. Arthur Deikman, a spiritually minded psychiatrist and cult-expert in northern California, has identified… “four basic behaviors found in extreme form in cults:
    compliance with the group (church, CFN, etc.)
    dependence on a leader (Jesus, Orlov, JHK, etc.)
    devaluing the outsider (sinners, “sheeple ignorant of TSHTF,” etc.)
    and avoiding dissent (excommunication, shunning, etc.)
    Christianity is a cult.

  604. Eleuthero November 25, 2011 at 3:40 am #

    I guess if we’re going to be a “full service broker” for Absalom, we should also warn him that some of the site’s bullies have second or even third identities that they hide behind even though they’re such “he-men” judging by their intense bloviating e.g. MIKA/METUSELAH.
    However, the great thing about this site is that once you get past the one-track records, the hypocrites, the bullies, and the weak intellects you’ve only eliminated about five or six people and the bulk can be reasoned with. It’s still a worthy site after all these years which is far better than the fate of most blogs.
    E.

  605. tegmark November 25, 2011 at 5:59 am #

    All Chant “Economic growth” …
    Most criticisms against the idea of Economic growth are from the greens, environmentalists and other stooges, scaredy cats and such. But the real problem with the Economic Growth Myth and Model is that it is simply IMPOSSIBLE to achieve anymore for most of the USA, EU and JAPAN, structurally, inherently, as a saturated system, as a long end of the road situation, as a simple “Growth Achieved” mode, no going back, as in the future will never again be like the past.
    That one time lucky quirk and combination of events and technology levels allowing mass employment, that local manufacturing jobs and situations being available in the golden 1950s to 1990s for the three stooges USA, EU and JAPAN, as in those times jobs weren’t optimized, automated and off shored out of existence to India, China, Indonesia and Brazil, etc, and the Eastern Europeans were still all sleeping as opposed to today where they are all awake and in Future Expectation and Growth Mode from consumption and such WILL NEVER COME BACK AGAIN, IT IS OVER, FINISHED, THE END. AMEN!
    Now is that so hard to understand ? Is that so tough to wrap your heads around ? There are no activities that can replace millions of jobs, no jobs indeed are even needed in an Automatic Economy that generates all production and wealth through technology and such and with very little labor input needed structurally, hence no jobs will be available.
    But a funny thing happened in the last 30 years. The USA, EU and JAPAN all had this illusion that their then present state of growth would go on forever so they made debts and kept on making debts with the false expectation that the Economy Will Grow in the Future and take care of any debts, etc. Well guess what ? The economy will never grow again for these places, it is Game Over, so just you all suck it up. And in the meantime, exactly when the governments of the USA, EU and JAPAN should be hiring millions of people to do Boldly and Proudly and Bluntly NOTHING AT ALL and give them a salary just to keep the consumer economy going, even just at a steady state, they all decide to cut costs, fire people, cut waste (what on earth is waste anyways ? and waste for who ? ) and such insanity in the hope that such will generate “Economic Growth”. Now how insane can you get ?
    They need to furnish Cheap Rents, hire millions to do nothing at all and just give them a salary, and commence huge public private projects like thousands of Skyscrapers, Rockets to Mars, Bus systems, you name it, in order to do something useful and hire some people to actually do some work.

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  606. tegmark November 25, 2011 at 6:03 am #

    That was from:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=177391
    I am not mao man, he is either Chinese or Japanese or South Korean, cheers, (no I take that back)…

  607. 8man November 25, 2011 at 8:37 am #

    From:
    the above ilovephilosophy link, (study it iall very carefully and also the other 1,000 posts by nameta9 and old6598 on that site):
    [quote=”Flannel Jesus”]What percentage of your posts are fundamentally exactly the same as this one? If I were to estimate, I’d say it must be around 30-50%, possibly more.
    Where has it gotten you the last 500 times you’ve made this post? What have you accomplished so far with this same empty post? What do you hope to accomplish with it? If what you hope to accomplish is significantly different from what you have accomplished with it…Well, as Einstein said, [b]”Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”[/b][/quote]
    There are 2 differences with past posts, Jesus, the Son of Man, the King of the Jews:
    I am highlighting how all criticism to the Model of Economic Growth has always come from the greens, environmentalists, and have always been associated with a Resource Scarcity Ideology, Peak Everything, lets go back to the stone age, lets stop the Technological Economy and Consumerism, etc. This ideology is totally false, there will keep on being more and more resources, more and more technology, more and more capability to manipulate and build and consume, this “lets go back to the stone age” idea is flawed, false and a losing proposition: we shall be and will be going to Mars and extracting energy directly from the Sun, we will split the Sun, just like we did with Atoms, we will harnish a huge amount of resources and wealth from the Solar System and build trillions of Skyscrapers, Cadillacs, Rockets etc.
    The correct criticism to the Economic Growth Model is its assumption that the Future will be Like the Past, that the 1960s growth the USA, Germany, Italy and JAPAN had was a law of physics, “natural” and automatic. Nothing further from the truth, that was a one time combination of forces and events that created that increase in wealth and consumerism. Now growth must be forced, imposed from above, imposed by huge public and private projects hiring millions to go to Mars, hiring millions to build skyscrapers, robots, you name it, we must reach for the future and leave the past and this earth behind, we must overcome nature, we need the belief in the future, optimism, we need huge increase in consumerism, factories, wealth, buildings, etc.
    Another correct criticism to the Economic Growth model is how the concept of debts, public and private is strictly tied into the concept of growth: you can make as much debt as possible since in the future the economy will grow past the debt levels and pay it all back. But this is false, unless you force growth by governments hiring millions to do nothing at all and to also build the Rockets to Mars, and only governments can do this since the private actors don’t create jobs, don’t have to, in fact have all the interest in decreasing jobs to increase their profit, look at the USA corporations sitting on hundreds of billions of dollars and just playing stock market and financial games with the money since they don’t need to hire anybody. In fact no one sees that the Technological Economy simply does away with work altogether, so how on earth can the economy grow and rebound ?
    Conclusion: the debts, all of them, will never be paid back, economic growth is finished structurally and the only way forward is for the government to hire millions to do boldly and proudly and bluntly nothing at all and hire other millions to build skyscrapers and reach for the future with rockets to mars and furnish cheap rents, like the free salary should be 800 dollars a month and the rent for a 4 bedroom house 200 dollars a month.
    Do you have any other solution ? No you don’t, so see I am the only person in the entire world who has any real solution and answer to millions of unemployed and poor.
    No go on, tell me the “Invisible hand” of the market will make the economy grow and create jobs by the millions, go on with the Right Wing Thug Free Market BS.
    TOBOR THE APE

  608. DeeJones November 25, 2011 at 8:50 am #

    “The Oil Drum doesn’t even bother with new posts anymore. Just recycled versions of the same old posts, flopping over and over like a flat tire, wump wump wump. Quite a comedown from the heady days of A Nosedive Toward the Desert in 2007.”
    Just where did you get this info from?
    Have you checked out TOD lately? New & Current info on the state of the worlds oil supply, definitely NOT ‘recycled’ versions of the “same old posts”.
    The info there might surprise you, for ex:
    Mexico’s Cantarell (sp?) field (where the US gets a big chunk of its oil) is in major depletion;
    The North Sea fields are in major depletion as well (England now has to import oil from Europe);
    In the Mid East, new fields coming online now are barely offsetting depletion of old fields, production is flat.
    But wait, go to the site and read the well- researched articles, there is more info…
    We are on the peak, but at the top of a bell curve, not a sharp drop off, so it is not that obvious.
    Oh, and there is no such thing as ‘abiotic oil’, and no tooth fariy, easter bunny, or, um, no santa either. Sorry! There is a great pumpkin tho!
    :]

  609. charliefoxtrot November 25, 2011 at 9:03 am #

    whew! scared me for a second there! and next you ll say jesus was just some nice dude who got tired of bangin’ nails all day…tiniest point of semantics: if production is flat; wouldn t that be a plateau rather than a bell curve? i m not bitter; i m just sayin’…anyway, happy tryptophan-metabolization day, CF’dN

  610. wagelaborer November 25, 2011 at 10:14 am #

    “Now, back to JHK’s poorly managed and non-moderated blog” Dee Jones
    “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Benjamin Franklin
    Personally, I like this blog. Obviously, I should say, since I spend so much time here 🙂
    The calls for banishment and censorship became so loud that JHK responded. And then everyone screamed because they themselves were targeted.
    First they came for Spider, and I said nothing, because I am not batshit crazy, then they came for oeo, and I said nothing, because I don’t make bombs in my mother’s basement, then ….. well, you know the rest.

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  611. DeeJones November 25, 2011 at 10:19 am #

    “.tiniest point of semantics: if production is flat; wouldn t that be a plateau rather than a bell curve?”
    At the top of the curve, if its big enough, it would appear to be flat. So I said ME production is flat, not world production, which appears to be at the top of the curve.

  612. DeeJones November 25, 2011 at 10:29 am #

    “The calls for banishment and censorship became so loud that JHK responded. And then everyone screamed because they themselves were targeted.”
    Wage, except for za=za, and it was obvious why,
    I have not asked for banishment of anyone. WEll, perhaps Vlad at his racist worst.
    But a well moderated blog, that is one where the author/owner actually reads and well, moderates the comments, tends to keep to subject, instead of wandering off into the wilderness of race & religion, & blah blah blah…
    But you are right, things are pretty much in anarchy here, and easily lead off topic into a wide range of just about anything.
    But you know, some have posited that JHK might even be one of the “trolls” posting just to spicen things up a bit cause he is bored.
    Sorry you are bored Jim…
    Do you even read any of the comments past Monday?
    Have you considered some kind of book on them?
    Inquiring minds want to know! After all, we get bored too.
    🙂

  613. messianicdruid November 25, 2011 at 10:31 am #

    “If you don’t believe in God, we were told, you can go to hell.”
    The doctrine of “hell” was concocted by people who did not understand greek, and therefore misunderstood God’s purposes. These people brought the “hades” idea into the church from their pagan beliefs and projected it onto the teachings of Jesus. Kinda the same way you project your blackness onto His personal character.
    Stop attributing to God the misconceptions and motivations of men. Jesus warned against keeping “the commandmentsd and doctrines of men”
    http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/COLDFUSION/Chapter.cfm?CID=150

  614. asoka. November 25, 2011 at 10:38 am #

    Dee, I am making a comparative claim about articles being recycled in OilDrum. Have you gone back and looked at the articles in 2007, 2008, 2009, etc.?
    You say there are “new” articles about Cantarell, for instance, in 2011. Look through the OilDrum archives and you will find Cantarell articles every year, each predicting “imminent collapse.”
    I’ll just pick one to keep this post short, but it illustrates the kind of repetitive doomsday thinking found on the OilDrum.
    Mexico: A Collapse Update
    Posted by jeffvail on March 8, 2009
    Tags: cantarell
    I’ve been predicting the collapse of the Mexican Nation-State since 2006. It turns out that was a bit premature. But with violence flaring, the potential for collapse in Mexico is once again in the headlines. Oil production continues to fall, border violence is up, and the government is preparing for a showdown with the drug cartels. I’ll argue below that the government will keep the wheels on through 2009, but that the Mexican state will collapse shortly thereafter…

  615. wagelaborer November 25, 2011 at 11:01 am #

    I guess I enjoy anarchy more than endless speculation about oil field yields.
    I’m guessing JHK has more to do with his time than read and censor our comments.
    I live in the Midwest. Small towns here regularly hold parades. Marching bands, Elks Club, little Prince and Princess Corn in golf carts, drill teams, the works.
    Most towns just line everybody up, and when it’s time, they say “Go”. And everybody follows everyone else, and the parade commences.
    Not Murphysboro. Oh, no. They line everyone up in different streets, and then various cheerleaders and small business owners stand guard in front of them. And there is a choreographed order that everyone goes in, but not until the cheerleader says it’s OK!
    So the parade takes HOURS, and I’m not kidding. There are big gaps between marchers, because some cheerleader on a power trip wouldn’t let her section go until she said so.
    It’s boring as hell to sit on the curb in the sun and wait for the next damn golf cart carrying little Miss Apple.
    Because they always put my town’s marching band at the very, very end, because we’re rivals, you know. So I’ve sat through the entire thing many times, long after everyone else has given up and gone home, passing parade marchers still standing on side streets, waiting for their cues.
    So, I prefer the way JHK does it. Puts out his spiel, and lets us go at it.

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  616. ront November 25, 2011 at 11:05 am #

    Asoka, be honest, how possible is it to judge, with a conditioned and limited intellect, the behavior and words attributed to one who is God personified? Can one really grasp the fullness of the situations or could the one who recounted the scene and actions grasp Jesus’ intentions? Why did sane people leave all to follow Him? What caused certain folks to love Him so purely and selflessly? It certainly was not for comfort, convenience or personal gain. I doubt it was to listen to his challenging discourses on how to be in the world and not of it.
    It must have been something else that only their hearts could recognize.

  617. Buck Stud November 25, 2011 at 11:14 am #

    Now matter how many times Lbendet calmly and rationally explained the dysfunction of JHK’s blog a month or two ago, you sill grasp at contrived straws of persecution. Seriously Wage – and I know you take yourself seriously; you do have a radio show after all – you often come off like a half-baked Drama Queen, casting doubts on those moments when you do think clearly.
    She was a real ” The Way We Were” type of gal, Babara.

  618. charliefoxtrot November 25, 2011 at 11:16 am #

    as a relative newcomer to cyberdyne systems itself, not just this blog, it occurs to me that most discussions we could have on any subject would be “working out” our differences; therefore delineating a common thread: all of which would serve to at least map a common direction and/or goal…which could be said to be trying to solve our problems as a society, by pointing out what those inherent problems are- i mean, we as earthlings are gonna have to have a consensus before we can deal with a lack of oil, right? what good is energy of whatever source, if we can t all just get along?! so for me, at least, this isn t just a peak oil site; rather a forum for taking the pulse of human consciousness, and trying to prescribe “two of these and call me in the morning” for those who realize there is a problem in houston and are willing to follow doctor s orders…hope some of that s clear

  619. wagelaborer November 25, 2011 at 11:28 am #

    Well, thanks for modeling “clear thinking”, Buck. I sure learned a lot.

  620. asoka. November 25, 2011 at 11:34 am #

    I could provide dozens more examples of Jesus’ vile behavior, from Holy Scripture itself (Word of God, dontchaknow), but Jesus’ preaching of hatred toward, and disrespect for, his own mama is sufficient to pronounce judgement upon him.
    I cannot imagine the pain and suffering Jesus caused Mary that day by publicly disowning her, calling her “that woman.” All Jesus’ other gross and angry acts pale by comparison.
    Ront, I am a child of God too, but I have better manners than Jesus and more common sense.
    Still, although I condemn his actions and understand his failings, as a person I like Jesus. And he was sometimes inspired, like in the Sermon on the Mount.
    I separate the message from the man, as I do with other human beings (Trungpa, Osho, etc.) who have been criticized by society. I love the message of Trunpa, Osho, Buddha, Jesus, in spite of any personal shortcomings they may have had.
    But I will not countenance Jesus out and out public and hateful dissing of his own mother.
    We are a little off topic. Did you know this is a “peak oil” site where we are to scare each other with dire predictions made up from phantom numbers?
    Are you going to board the Blue Bus like all the other lemmings?

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  621. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 12:35 pm #

    Thank you – I’ll check into it. Now even if the Shroud is not genuine, it certainly doesn’t mean that Jesus was Black. Being a Jew, he was a Caucasian – as were the Egyptians. King Tut’s DNA was examined and he was found to have been Northern European. Later the Nation degenerated and was even taken by Black Mercenaries for a hundred years of so.

  622. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 12:40 pm #

    Lemmings don’t actually want to die – they just make mistakes sometimes. Disney shamefully herded a bunch of them off a cliff to reinforce preconceptions.
    White people on the other hand do actually have a death wish.

  623. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 12:54 pm #

    Well at least they were married for many years. Some women take the most of a man’s money after only a few years. And the children are grown. Most of the real horror stories involve women who keep the children after walking out or having a man thrown out (of his own house even), divorce him getting most of the estate, make visitation very difficult or impossible by slandering his character, and basically enslave him for the next two decades until the children are grown. Men end up not being able to afford medications that they need. And when they try to work more, the wife just finds out and up the settlement. The Family Courts are brutally biased in favor of women.
    It’s a complicated question as to what’s fair – one I wouldn’t trust the Goverment to decide. Perhaps it will balance out now that women are making as much or more than men. Men are begining to ask for alimony too.
    Traditional life was very different than modern life. Traditionally marriage was supposed to be forever. And women didn’t have workplace skills. So for a man to abandon or divorce such a women and leave her destitue was considered cruel. But today women usually do have skills, marriage is not for keeps – so having a man support a women forever is unjust. So when is it one situation and when another? It can be very difficult to judge what’s fair during times of transition such as our’s. But obviously, alot of what has been going is easy to judge: grossly unfair to men.

  624. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 12:56 pm #

    Btw, Zen was the religion of the Samurai Class in Japan. Some Zen Masters have come out against this as perversion of Zen.

  625. asoka. November 25, 2011 at 1:21 pm #

    Vlad, the evidence is overwhelming that Jesus is Black.
    Just go travel around Europe. Go to the Catholic countries of Europe: France, Italy, Germany, etc. The God Christ, as well as his mother, are described in their old pictures to be black. The infant God in the arms of his black mother. Jesus is perfectly black.
    Vlad, if you doubt my word you may go to the Cathedral at Moulins or to the famous Chapel of the Virgin at Loretto or to the Church of the Annunciata or the Church at St. Lazaro or the Church of St. Stephen at Genoa or to St. Francisco at Pisa or to the Church at Brixen in Tyrol and to that at Padua or to the Church of St. Theodore at Munich or to a church and to the Cathedral at Augsburg, where there is a black virgin and child as large as life or to Rome and the Borghese chapel of Maria Maggiore or to the Pantheon or to a small chapel of St. Peters on the right hand side on entering, near the door; and in fact, to almost innumerable other churches in countries professing the Roman Catholic religion.
    There is scarcely an old church in Italy without some remains of the worship of the black virgin and black child.
    Now, Vlad, you white folks have tried to change historical fact. In some churches the black figures have given way to white ones and in these cases the black ones, as being held sacred, were put into retired places in the churches, but were not destroyed, and are yet to be found there.

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  626. digi sport live November 25, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    I enjoyed every little bit part of it and I will be waiting for the new updates.

  627. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 1:32 pm #

    Well there is such a thing as Crazy Wisdom. But when is it a Sage flouting arbitrary social mores, and when is it a psychopath huring people? A Da Free John breaking people’s bones and destroying marriages? He like to cover it up and call it Crazy Wisdom.
    The Cultures of the far East are so group oriented that it behooves a Sage to shake them, get them to think for themsleves: maybe some social mores are dysfunctional, even cruel.
    And in the West too, many practicioners found the conventional morality limiting. They didn’t want it rejected en masse since people need guidelines, but they did play with it. St Francis walked into a Church nude for example. Or my favorite: one Orthodox Monk found himself famous and esteemed as a Monk. It was so worldly and constraining. So he left the Monastary and went to live in a coastal city. He told everyone that he had failed as a monk. He slept on the beach and gambled in the casino. His life was far more ascetic than it had been in the Monastary. And he was deprived of the adulatation. And any money he won, he gave to the poor.
    The Precepts or the Commandments are blueprints of how an Enlightened Mind functions in the world. People need this. But once you see for yourself, you can fine tune things a bit. But anyone actually breaking the big rules is a psycho – since the rules are based on non duality as you observe.
    Are the Doctrines arbitrary? This was Dale’s point. I would say yes and no. Yes, the Highest Truth is without Marks, so it can be expressed in different ways. The Great Self of the Upanishads, the God of the West, or the NO Self/God of Buddhism. But once put forth, that is the Religion. A building can’t change its foundation without destroying the building. Likewise a Religion must stick with its Original Teaching. Individuals perhaps not. Osho obviously not. That was my point to Dale.
    And even this may not be true. The “Theravadin Buddha” didn’t seem to know of the Great Self teaching. All his denials were based on the regular soul/ego of ordinary people. This is possible since at that time, it was still a secret teachings kept by the Brahmins for themselves. Buddha was a Ksyatria or of the warrior caste. But he became a sadhu and one would thing he would have found out… Some have said that the some of the great Mahayana Sutras talk of a “two fold” egotism and that both must be turned away from. From this point of view, the great Self of the Upanishads is not the final Enlightenment but must also be surrendered to attain the Tao. The Dharmakaya or Body of the Buddha must be let go in order to attain the Svabhavikakaya or the final reconciliation of Form and Formlessness.
    In other words, Buddha’s formulation may be better than that of the Upanishads and Shankara. As would Lao Tzu’s.

  628. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 1:42 pm #

    Two things: these Truths are beyond race so each race should be able to portray the founders anyway they want: Blacks as Black and Whites as White.
    But then is the matter of historical facts – I say Jesus is White you pretend to believe that he is Black. Now as is your wont and pleasure, you are conflating these two very different layers of Truth instead of doing either justice.
    A third thing: Jungian Archetypes. Colors matter -as does that lack of color, as does being black or absorbing all colors. Black is sacred – the black stone in Islam, the black Mahakala in Indo Tibetan Buddhism, the black Kali in Hinduism. None of this is racial, dumb ass. But reflects the holiness of matter and form.
    White is sacred too – the White Light. And the auras of the holy people. All colors return to White Light. And White Light returns to Darkness before it emerges as again as the Ultimate Light.

  629. asoka. November 25, 2011 at 1:44 pm #

    Vlad said:

    From this point of view, the great Self of the Upanishads is not the final Enlightenment but must also be surrendered to attain the Tao. The Dharmakaya or Body of the Buddha must be let go in order to attain the Svabhavikakaya or the final reconciliation of Form and Formlessness.

    Vlad, on this point I am in complete agreement with you. Very nicely stated also. Thank you.

  630. asoka. November 25, 2011 at 1:50 pm #

    Vlad, I’m betting you are not white.
    My stucco is white and I doubt you would blend in.
    I’m betting you are more beige. Or the color in my first coloring box of Crayolas that was labeled “Flesh Color” but did not match my flesh.

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  631. anti soak November 25, 2011 at 1:51 pm #

    Asoka just posted:
    Christianity is a cult.
    Osho [He got a bad rep as Rajneesh so did a name change as damage control] is a very distinguished Author.
    Osho was a monster, like his MaSheela [is she still in prison?].
    I applaud Oshos bodyguard, who debunked him.
    ‘THE GOD THAT FAILED’
    ‘INSIDE THE RAJNEESH CULT’
    ETC ETC…
    Vlad keep debunking huckster asoka here!!!
    We love you!

  632. mika. November 25, 2011 at 1:51 pm #

    Jesus and his followers were part of a political insurrection movement aimed against the Roman occupation of Judea. Jesus and and his followers were all eventually killed or chased out of Judea. What was left was myth, which was then subsumed and turned on its head by imperialist Roman propaganda agents. This was made possible after Rome destroyed Judea and committed genocide on the local Jewish population there.

  633. asoka. November 25, 2011 at 2:02 pm #

    I love you, anti soak.
    About your claim that “Osho is a monster,” I wonder if the people of India realize that. The newspaper, Times of India, regularly posts articles about Osho for their reading public. Take a look for yourself:
    http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/keyword/osho
    You are relying on the testimony of one or two disillusioned sannyasins. It would be like me saying I spoke to Judas and got the inside scoop on Jesus!
    Millions think otherwise about Osho. Are they all duped, anti soak? Are they all hucksters?
    Whatever you choose to believe, I still love you. And nothing can change that.

  634. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 2:12 pm #

    Buck, question to your expertise. I’ve heard that cubism was influenced by “primivite” art. More specifically, I had a book once (forget the title) that said it was most directly influenced by a type of abstract, geometrical art practiced in the Congo. Apparently they showed these traditional artists some of the cubist painting inspired directly by them and they were aghast. They said that their work fostered harmony while the Cubist paintings inspired chaos.
    Do you know about any of this? What that kind of African Art was called? I’d like to see some of it and see if I can tell the difference between it and the geometrical cubsist works.

  635. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 2:16 pm #

    The locals in Pune hated Rajneesh as an apostate and defiler of Hinduism. There were several assasination attempts.

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  636. wagelaborer November 25, 2011 at 2:17 pm #

    “It’s a complicated question as to what’s fair – one I wouldn’t trust the Goverment to decide.”
    Are you calling for sharia law, Vlad?

  637. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 2:20 pm #

    Long before the Jewish revolt, the Jews tried to stamp out Christianity. The Apostle John and the Virgin Mary had to run for their lives to Asia Minor to escape the Jews.
    Have you read the New Testament? Read how they stoned Johnathan. One of many.

  638. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 2:24 pm #

    Naw, I counsel men not to get married (by the State) in the West. Even you must admit that what has been done is evil. But the Elite are out to lower the poplulation and deconstruct America by any means, be they fair or be they foul. And the Communist Movement and Feminism are both part of that.

  639. Buck Stud November 25, 2011 at 2:27 pm #

    I don’t mean to dismiss your intelligence or passion; I do, however, question if you and others on the far left understand how to compose a cause.
    For instance, the OWS movement. In good composition “everything is for one thing ”. The initial complaint of the movement was centered around economic injustice symbolized literally and figuratively by Wall Street. In other words, the focal point of the composition, or the “one thing”. By way of analogy, the light colored trunk of the aspen tree (Wall Street) reads and registers if it is enveloped by, say, a background of dark evergreen trees (the 99%) simplified into one basically unified tone. And therein lies the rub, the fly in the ointment: Permutations and tributaries of the main cause begin to elaborate themselves into undue prominence. As a result , the main, initial cause no longer registers. Too many bullhorns and pedestals inevitably fritter away the simplified singularity of the enveloping tone into disparate highlights which fracture and puncture unity of composition.
    The pepper spray incident is just one example. “Wall Street” is no longer the focal point, but replaced instead, by police misconduct/brutality.
    If “TPTB” were intelligent about marginalizing OWS they would flood the movement with 9/11 conspiracy theorists, gay and lesbian/transgender activists, virulent feminist vocalists, pro-illegal immigration banners, public union worker entitlement demands, and on and on. Soon, the background that once provided the foil for Wall Street to register against will have militated themselves into the same highlighted tone as the original focal point.
    Wall Street? What Wall Street?

  640. rippedthunder November 25, 2011 at 2:37 pm #

    So Asoka, I’m at the firehouse perusing the web and my paramedic buddy asks,” Why do you read all that doom and gloom shit?”. I say “Would you rather we be out pickin’ up bodies?”. “OK, I getch yer point!”. Anyway, What is the differance between a Ferrari and a dead baby?

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  641. ABSALOM November 25, 2011 at 2:43 pm #

    E,
    That’s what I noticed about the inhabitants herein, well, some. This blog harbors a lot of people(sexagenarians it seems) who have been following this stuff for several years, and these are the brains I love to pick. I only stumbled across material pertaining to the controversies of Peak Oil, it’s impact on a Global Economy, and the innumerable other entrenched issues just over a year ago. Virtually no one in my immediate circle can speak with any clarity or insight on these issues; or worse, they avoid them altogether, so I’m usually easily bored with my cohort and left frustrated with ever mounting questions. Oddly, I’m in contact with many college academics, also students and such, who seem to have their heads firmly planted in their asses; all believe these headlines will just go away or remedy themselves, which makes me feel like I’m living in a twilight zone.
    What I’m piecing together is that Peak Oil is so highly politicized, similar to climate change, that it’s difficult to find the middle ground, or “truth.” I think climate change is legitimate, and I recognize the relation of the two to the larger economic and political attitudes out there, but I don’t see any real effort to deal with this shit. It’s freakin’ me out, as I’m no where near prepared to deal with the range of potential scenarios that could unfold to greater or lesser degree. Therefore, I turn to a blog filled with “angry uncles” for suggestions. I couldn’t give a shit about revisionist historic or religious perspectives. And racists will only receive a verbal thumping from me.

  642. mika. November 25, 2011 at 2:44 pm #

    Vlad you’re talking nonsense, motivated by deliberate malice and ignorance. You’re not going to know anything parroting official propaganda. The only thing you will learn by parroting official propaganda is being an obedient follower of the master. The master being your programmer, the State propagandist(s).
    If you want to learn about the history of that era, particularly as it relates to the Jesus movement, go read Hyam Maccoby!

  643. asoka. November 25, 2011 at 2:48 pm #

    Vlad, of course they did. Fanatics of any religion will despise those who do not reinforce a tradition fanatics believe to be the only true way.
    So it doesn’t surprise me they tried to kill him. Socrates, Buddha, Osho, Jesus, they all were reviled because they dared violate social mores and preach universal love, lovingkindness, a search for Truth wherever it leads.

  644. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 2:51 pm #

    As John C Lilly said in Comsic Love is ruthless. You epitomize such ruthlessness in you comment to Anti.

  645. asoka. November 25, 2011 at 2:53 pm #

    Hey, RT! This Thanksgiving I gave thanks to the firefighters, police and paramedics – the “first responders” who deal with emergencies and the aftermaths of accidents and crimes. Without thinking of themselves, these selfless individuals (like you, RT) jump into hazardous and gruesome scenes for the sake of others. These are jobs I personally could not stomach, so THANK YOU to all who do them. And thanks to the people who clean up these horrible scenes of destruction as well – more unsung heroes. Many of us are oblivious to just how much work it requires to keep our infrastructure going. Hope you had a happy Thanksgiving. Glad to know you are back on the job.

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  646. asoka. November 25, 2011 at 2:55 pm #

    It is my nature, Vlad. I read what anti soak wrote and my heart opened with love for him. I cannot help it… just flowing with nature.

  647. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 2:57 pm #

    Study the words of the Founding Fathers: Racists all. And by racist I don’t mean haters, but lovers – people who put their own People first. This is the way to grow and maintain a nation, any nation. A universal nation is a contradiction in terms.
    Both Lincoln and Jefferson wanted to send the Blacks back to Africa. Sorry reality isn’t what you thought it was. You’ve bee lied to you see – deliberately dumbed down. It’s not you fault, but it is your fault if you do nothing about it now that you’ve met me. I’ve just made you life more difficult. Did anyone promise you that learning would be easy? If so, they lied.

  648. rippedthunder November 25, 2011 at 2:58 pm #

    Thanks Asoka, I try to be of use. I have been at it 32 years. So did ya figure out the Ferrari question?

  649. Qshtik November 25, 2011 at 3:01 pm #

    I couldn’t give a shit…
    =============
    Kudos to ABS for writing couldn’t.

  650. wagelaborer November 25, 2011 at 3:06 pm #

    I give up. What?

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  651. asoka. November 25, 2011 at 3:14 pm #

    I give up, RT. But I’m not sure I want to know the answer.

  652. asoka. November 25, 2011 at 4:03 pm #

    I give up, RT. But I’m not sure I want to know the answer.
    Especially if it involves not having a Ferrari in the garage.

  653. rippedthunder November 25, 2011 at 4:39 pm #

    Ok Wage , Asoka spoiled the gallows humor. The differance between a Ferrari and a dead baby is. Hold it, hold it. ” I don’t have a Ferrari in the garage!”

  654. ABSALOM November 25, 2011 at 4:43 pm #

    You clearly enjoy farting into your own cupped hand then rushing it to your nostrils.

  655. rippedthunder November 25, 2011 at 4:45 pm #

    Uh-oh, back on the watch list for me! ;0)

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  656. Qshtik November 25, 2011 at 4:47 pm #

    And as far as I am concerned, I have been absolutely consistent all three times.
    — Osho, Journey without End
    ===============
    Osho Shmosho.
    The first man asked, “Hey Budd, how much is 2+2?” and Budd said “5.” The second man asked, “Master, what is the sum of 2 and 2?” and the Master said “negative 14.53.” A third man asked, “Yo Bud, how much is 2+2?” and Bud replied “it depends on the base of the number system you’re using.” Bud’s sycophant flunky heard all this and asked “how can you answer the same question 3 different ways?” and Budd said “if you would read Whitman and Emerson like I told you you wouldn’t ask such silly questions. Now be a good boy and crack me another brewski willya.”

  657. rippedthunder November 25, 2011 at 4:49 pm #

    Hey ABSALOM, don’t knock it. Especially if it smells like pumpkin pie!

  658. ABSALOM November 25, 2011 at 4:53 pm #

    If that were ever even remotely the case, that fool would be wearing a face-mask with a hose attachment.

  659. rippedthunder November 25, 2011 at 4:57 pm #

    Doncha’ get cute on me you ol’ septuagenarian. Lets stick wid da decimal system.,lest u be confuzin’ da sheet outta da peeps!

  660. DeeJones November 25, 2011 at 5:00 pm #

    “Mexico: A Collapse Update
    Posted by jeffvail on March 8, 2009
    Tags: cantarell”
    Just what does this have to do with the depletion rates of the cantarell oil field?
    I only pointed WSP7 to the TOD because they had questions re Peak oil.
    I think that CFN is not just a PO blog, but a Peak Energy & Decline blog. PO is just one aspect of that.
    :]

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  661. Widespreadpanic7 November 25, 2011 at 5:00 pm #

    Asoka if ‘Peak Oil’ is a myth why do you spend your time on a website sponsored by an author whose most popular book posits the theory of peak oil? It doesn’t make much sense. I happen to believe the economic stresses playing upon the west, collapse in the US banking system in 2008 and impending collapse of Western Europe right now, can be traced directly to the high price of petroleum. The prices are high for a reason, and it isn’t because there is a lot of it around to be had. In 1935 oil was 10 cents per barrel. In 1972 it was less than $3.00. Now it hovers around $100.00 per barrel and that high price is wreaking havoc with western economies. With oil that high the 3-5% growth in GDP that is necessary to keep things going, well, it ain’t gonna happen.
    Eastern religions, racism, Marxism … plus a whole bunch of other stuff posted here each week are just red herrings distracting readers from far more important issues. Actually I find conservative publications like the Wall Street Journal and Investors Business Daily more likely to deal honestly & straightforwardly with issues like peak oil.
    Having said that, ‘Black Friday’? What a disgrace! When Jim asks are we a serious country or not, the answer is a resounding ‘Not’!
    —WSP7

  662. DeeJones November 25, 2011 at 5:06 pm #

    “I guess I enjoy anarchy more than endless speculation about oil field yields.
    I’m guessing JHK has more to do with his time than read and censor our comments.
    I live in the Midwest. Small towns here regularly hold parades. Marching bands, Elks Club, little Prince and Princess Corn in golf carts, drill teams, the works.”
    In my opinion, I think the anarchy is fine, but I also think that this would be a much more interesting site IF Mr JHK also moderated it a bit, and by that I mean reading and posting his OWN comments on the board, in response to ours.
    This is more like the teacher coming into the classroom on Monday, posting a topic, then leaving for the rest of the week, while the students go wild writing whatever they want on the board.
    And I’m sorry you have to live in the midwest and are forced to attend boring parades. Have you ever considered NOT attending the boring parades? Or even moving someplace else? I hear its always sunny in Baltimore….
    :]

  663. asoka. November 25, 2011 at 5:09 pm #

    I think that CFN is not just a PO blog, but a Peak Energy & Decline blog. PO is just one aspect of that.

    I agree.
    I find the positive suggestions for change to deal with energy descent much more interesting than baseless guesses about how much oil remains.
    We have about 45 years of oil left. The situation is extremely, extremely serious.

  664. anti soak November 25, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    More fake Chinese goods!
    Chinese sell fake honey in China!
    [I assume its like our ‘maple syrup’ thats sugar]
    from Facebook….
    Ohio Honey says….
    yes….but now the chinese are finding ways to get tainted honey here for distribution. They’ve added a dangerous antibiotic – here is a link:
    http://topnews.net.nz/content/25111-fda-takes-imported-honey-custody
    it states: The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has said that Federal Marshals have taken into their possession imported bulk honey … See Moreworth $32,000. The honey was imported from China and contains a potent antibiotic known as chloramphenicol.
    The Federal Marshals took hold of the honey from the Delaware Avenue Distribution Center in Philadelphia. The alleged drug is not permitted to be used for food items

  665. rippedthunder November 25, 2011 at 5:16 pm #

    HI WSP7, I was at the mall today. Probably the first time in 3-4 years. I do my shoppin’ on-line. The place was mobbed! No where to park and 10 deep at the cash register. I thought we were in a recession? I was not there for the sales, I just needed a 15 inch TV for my son who is “on vacation” at the request of the state. Don’t ask. Consumerism is alive and well in the USA!

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  666. DeeJones November 25, 2011 at 5:19 pm #

    “Two things: these Truths are beyond race…”
    Vlad, you continue to confound me, you say the above, but continue to spout negative racist crap.
    Don’t you also know that the skin is just a thin covering, with color or lack thereof evolved due to environmental conditions? Underneath we are all ‘meat-colored’. Now, don’t take that to go all Hannibal Lechter on us now….
    But you do make more sense when you are not off your meds.
    Didja get & enjoy some turkey?
    :]

  667. asoka. November 25, 2011 at 5:20 pm #

    Asoka if ‘Peak Oil’ is a myth
    ================
    Peak oil is not a myth. From all the sources I have read (industry, academic, government, etc.) I think we have about 45 years more oil. That is the blink of an eye in geologic time.
    On the other hand, I do not think the end of oil will be the end of the world. We have tons of accumulated knowledge that was not available to people in the pre-oil ages. We will adapt. I seem have more faith in human resilience than others. That doesn’t mean I’m in denial of reality.
    This site is about coping with energy descent and discussions of politics, spirituality, and permaculture are all relevant topics.

  668. anti soak November 25, 2011 at 5:23 pm #

    Well if you have Non Indians wearing orange
    monks robes while eating a hamburger!
    Yes I would say he was ‘net negative’ on Hinduism and especially on non Hindus.
    Did you know he had an abortuary there?
    No room for children.
    Children dont pay for 103 Rolls Royces.
    The British woman who wrote one of the exposes
    was sent there directly by him, she almost died.
    Its in her book.
    Clearly Raja Osho was an empire builder, and a druggie.
    As was Frank Jones/ Adi Da.

  669. DeeJones November 25, 2011 at 5:24 pm #

    “You clearly enjoy farting into your own cupped hand then rushing it to your nostrils.”
    Sometimes I think he more than farts. I also wonder if he’s ever tasted it…
    🙂

  670. Qshtik November 25, 2011 at 5:38 pm #

    AMR,
    If you’re lurking out there, I did that high-dividend stock study. The short answer is that both high-div stocks and the DOW 30 stocks showed a small net negative return over the past year.
    Hi-div stk return was -.373%
    The DOW 30 return was -.447%
    A hundred dollars invested in the hi-div stks lost 37 cents and a hundred dollars invested in the DOW lost 45 cents. Despite all the volatility we’ve seen, the year thus far has netted out to a real snoozer. The dollars one got back after the year also lost due to inflation, say 3%.
    These “returns” include both the change in the stock price from Thanksgiving 2010 to Thanksgiving 2011 plus the dividends paid out over that period. The DOW 30 return (-.447%) does not agree with the number I gave previously (+.63%) because I equally weighted each of the 30 components when, in fact, the DOW components are not equally weighted.
    I examined a universe of 67 div stks of which 46 paid >5% and 21 paid 5%.
    Conclusion: If the past year is any guide, there is little to be gained by owning a portfolio of high-dividend stocks vs simply owning the DOW 30 Industrials.

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  671. Eleuthero November 25, 2011 at 5:47 pm #

    Take heart, Absalom!! I’ll bet most of the discerning minds on this site are regarded as alarmist nutters by their friends and family even as these same friends and relatives see the US economy and future energy/water/food situation erode like Dust Bowl topsoil.
    That’s what amazes ME … they act like just because they, personally, haven’t transitioned from living in an apartment to living in their car, it must be an entirely fictitious phenomenon made up by Gloomy Guses like us. Sigh.
    Only 64% of eligible people are participating in the workforce. Our capacity utilization is scraping along in the low to mid 60s because of vast overproduction of everything from computers to clothing to sunglasses to water bottles. Yet, where it REALLY counts, healthcare/energy/food, we’re having serious inflation.
    You just have to accept with a certain shrugging resignation that Americans do NOT want to understand emergencies until said emergencies HIT THEM PERSONALLY.
    E.

  672. Qshtik November 25, 2011 at 5:55 pm #

    Should read:
    …and 21 paid

  673. DeeJones November 25, 2011 at 6:02 pm #

    “This site is about coping with energy descent and discussions of politics, spirituality, and permaculture are all relevant topics.”
    I heartily agree Asoka. Did you know that Atlantis will rise from the depths any day now, with fountains of Abiotic oil just spouting away?
    Also, the Friendly Gray UFOs will land and give us the secret of unlimited power, and free iTunes until the end of the universe.
    And Vlad will finally reveal himself as the True and Actual Jesus Christ, the One Son of God Almighty.
    Thank the Goddess that this site isn’t JUST about Peak Oil.
    Hope you had a happy T-day!
    🙂

  674. Qshtik November 25, 2011 at 6:02 pm #

    That’s odd, the comment block will not display a “less than” symbol so let’s make it:
    …and 21 paid less than 5%.
    It’s got something to do with that symbol’s use in HTML tags.

  675. ozone November 25, 2011 at 6:13 pm #

    Wham! Bullseye…
    Give that man a kewpie doll!
    I thank you for your perspicacity (not that it will do us much good).
    Now we know why a “certain person” can be handily ignored, overall.
    Didja see the “discussion” that took place by the Panel of the Irrelevant? About 4 persons painting the blog walls with their own fecal matter for post, after post, after post (etc.). Enlightening, eh?
    Ummmm, not so much, I’d suspect. ;o)

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  676. ozone November 25, 2011 at 6:27 pm #

    E. sez,
    “Take heart, Absalom!! I’ll bet most of the discerning minds on this site are regarded as alarmist nutters by their friends and family even as these same friends and relatives see the US economy and future energy/water/food situation erode like Dust Bowl topsoil.”
    Yessir, I may not be all that discerning, but yeah, I’m considered kind of a nutter; so I mostly keep my mouth shut (depending on what kind o’ folk I happen to be around).
    And yes, take heart, more and more people are starting to look into the actual perpetrators and causes of “what the hell happened”, so I don’t think we’ll be quite so lonely in a short period of time. (Not that it will make much difference to me how many “joiners” there are; it just makes me feel slightly less fuggin’ crazy, ATF (after the fact. ;o)

  677. ozone November 25, 2011 at 6:31 pm #

    Q.,
    Most interesting analysis.
    Thanks for taking the time. Hope you don’t mind if I spread that around? (Just say, “no”, it won’t hurt too much. ;o)

  678. ctemple November 25, 2011 at 6:35 pm #

    You raise a very good point Buck. I don’t believe the left has been able to pose an argument for a good forty years. I don’t see how anybody can look at millions of Americans out of work and students protesting because they can’t find jobs and think the country needs millions more immigrants. And yet there a good number of people who feel that way, some on this blog. The Republicans are hopeless as well, all they want is to start another war and cut taxes for the very wealthy. How that appeals to Joe Six Pack is beyond me.
    Wage laborer does seem sincere, even a nice person in certain respects, but as somebody who has never been exposed that much to the far left, she says things that seem bizarre to me.
    Vlad seems like a very well read guy, but I do not understand his constant need to demean blacks and Native Americans. And it detracts.
    My biggest complaint with the left and the right, (especially the left) is they spend way too much of their time looking down their noses at the lower classes.
    I believe this blog should spend it’s time talking about Peak Oil and the changes in society, not getting into arcane discussions of Buddhism or atheism, or whatever.
    And I also think if you don’t agree with Jim’s basic theories, you should shut up and get out of here, not show up every week and say how stupid his predictions are because the world hasn’t ended yet. He’s more tolerant of this crap than I think I’d be.
    Somebody brought up fractals, (I guess that’s spelled right) a few days ago, I didn’t know what the hell they were even talking about, I don’t think most ordinary people would. I get tired of what I call ‘propeller heads’ trying to show how much smarter they are than everyone else in the room.
    I used to be in Yahoo Groups, and they had moderators, when flame wars started or anybody got too far off topic, they would just shut it down.
    I wish Jim would do that, shut down all the talk about religion, that means the atheists too, and race.

  679. ABSALOM November 25, 2011 at 6:39 pm #

    E,
    Here is another example of the type of “alarmist nutters” I like to hear from.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEH9zKHTZqQ
    Incidentally, I wonder if you’d agree with him?
    Eleuthero and Ozone, thanks for the daily dose of ginseng and high altitude thought.
    Cheers

  680. lbendet November 25, 2011 at 6:55 pm #

    Americans do NOT want to understand emergencies until said emergencies HIT THEM PERSONALLY.
    Agreed, E.,
    But it’s not just Americans. Sadly it’s a fault in human nature and the way we evolved.
    I heard an interesting video on Richard Heinberg’s older version of his website (Post Carbon Institute) a few years ago.
    Heinberg featured a number of academia types who were discussing the various issues of collapse from global warming to energy depletion and one woman professor was saying that we evolved reacting to clear and present danger.
    She explained the lack of response concerning impending dangers that we are told will happen, but we can’t feel the changes yet. Our world continues to function as it always has, so we don’t react to it. As to society, there is no collective response. yes an occasional TV show or film, but nothing will change until it has to.
    Of course there are always individuals who respond and try to warn and prepare, but between the vested interests we have in the system that we perceive we are doing well in and the selfishness that pervades our species, it is not just an American phenomenon by any means.
    Hence JHK’s blog topic this week.

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  681. ABSALOM November 25, 2011 at 7:17 pm #

    Lbendet said:
    Agreed, E.,
    But it’s not just Americans. Sadly it’s a fault in human nature and the way we evolved.
    ==================================================
    Hello, I wasn’t quite able to follow the exposition that proceeded from this tidbit; there’s little evidence of a FAULT in human nature which precludes our ability to cope with change. Some would argue it’s the convolution of human CULTure which conduces against our innate ability to change. But maybe that’s what you were saying.
    Anyhow, I thought his might be interesting:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEH9zKHTZqQ
    Cheers

  682. asoka. November 25, 2011 at 7:25 pm #

    ctemple said: “I believe this blog should spend it’s time talking about Peak Oil…”
    ===============
    If you really believe that, then why haven’t you responded to any of the many posts I have made this week on peak oil? Because I quoted TOD and showed its irrelevance to peak oil?
    Also, it seems you are unable to understand the relationship between peak oil and Buddhism, so conversations which are relevant are seen by you to be a waste of bandwidth.
    In other words, you bitch but you don’t contribute to the peak oil discussion.
    I have come to the conclusion that this blog is about whatever is posted by whomever shows up.
    Like Wage says, it is anarchy. If you want the blog to be about peak oil, then show up and post on peak oil. To bitch from the sidelines about others is not helpful.

  683. ozone November 25, 2011 at 7:29 pm #

    “My biggest complaint with the left and the right, (especially the left) is they spend way too much of their time looking down their noses at the lower classes.” -CT
    CT,
    I can certainly see where you’d get that impression.
    I may be an outlier, ’cause I done BE lower class. (Exception meets rule? I dunno.)

  684. progress2conserve November 25, 2011 at 7:43 pm #

    “And I also think if you don’t agree with Jim’s basic theories, you should shut up and get out of here, not show up every week and say how stupid his predictions are because the world hasn’t ended yet. He’s more tolerant of this crap than I think I’d be.” -ctemple mostly to asoka.”
    I’m working my way up from the bottom of the thread tonight. Caleb – I have no idea how or why asoka. has spent 8 years, by his reckoning – on JHK’s blogs arguing against our host’s basic premise.
    It’s not a positive thing to be doing.
    I don’t actually mind the anarchy. I do despise that one poster, though – mainly because of his insipid insipidity and frenetic frequency.
    Censorship by JHK would be worse, IMO –
    but not by a very wide margin.

  685. DeeJones November 25, 2011 at 7:57 pm #

    You know, i really wonder if JHK reads ANY of the commentary here.
    Probably not, instead he’s probably spending his time down at the double wide at the end of Vlads TP tossing rolls of quarters to the meth whores….
    Life doesn’t get any better for him….
    ;}

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  686. charliefoxtrot November 25, 2011 at 8:04 pm #

    rt- i d say the biggest difference is about 660 horsepower…too soon?

  687. progress2conserve November 25, 2011 at 8:07 pm #

    Regarding atheism, religion, and TLE –
    Here – I’ve got to take issue with those who find these topics off the subject for CFN.
    First of all, religion is part and parcel of JHK’s fiction. Of course, so is racial conflict, but that’s for another post.
    And I KNOW – for absolute fact – that some sort of religion can be a positive, even necessary, force – for *most all?* people and most societies; if and when a genuine Long Emergency event impinges on a culture.
    How do I know this?
    Because I witnessed how my grandfather’s generation used the social cohesion provided by the little Baptist Church within walking distance – for essential support, as they worked to wrest a living from the hard Georgia clay.

  688. progress2conserve November 25, 2011 at 8:25 pm #

    “Having said that, ‘Black Friday’? What a disgrace! When Jim asks are we a serious country or not, the answer is a resounding ‘Not’!”
    -wsp-
    Concur, wsp. And in this, I am coming to agree with Wage and the conspiracists. The American people can be “brainwashed??” into doing amazing things. Getting up in the middle of the night – to go shopping – for elusive “bargains?”
    10 or 15 years ago – no one had even thought to behave in such a bizarre manner.
    And now – we sit here with a World of comparison pricing and free shipping available 24/7 from the internet.
    Yet this “Black Friday” monstrosity gets worse and worse every year.
    Amazing.
    http://www.freep.com/article/20111125/FEATURES13/111125011/Black-Friday-turns-violent-8-U-S-Walmart-stores-least-24-people-injured

  689. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 8:35 pm #

    You think I’m wrong about Lincoln and Jefferson? Will someone please enlighten this poor fool?

  690. Buck Stud November 25, 2011 at 8:39 pm #

    Vlad,
    There is no question that Picasso extolled African art, but I do not know the exact tribe that you’re referencing. Some of the female faces in Picasso’s Les Demoiselles d’Avignon seem to be influenced by African Art, but I don’t believe that Picasso or Europeans in general really understood African art beyond a juvenile romanticizing of “primitivism.” For one, African art served a utilitarian, ritualistic purpose and was not aesthetic in the western sense of the word.
    I happen to believe Cezanne was far more influential in regards to Cubism than African art.
    I know you’re not a big fan of Picasso, but what do you think of his Blue Period? I happen to think it’s pretty spectacular myself.
    The art critic garnered too much influence in my opinion during the twentieth century, and artists in search of critical acclaim went down paths that were perhaps regretted later on in life. Certainly Mondrian expressed this lament and if you’ve ever seen his naturalistic landscape paintings done in his early years you would know why. Stunning, beautiful landscapes.
    What I find fascinating is the art critic was never willing to denigrate and debase their own craft/art. In fact, many of the high-powered critics were amazingly beautiful writers. And yet they were more than willing to encourage the defacement of visual art. But like the art they frequently condemned with terms such as “received” and “derivative” their own criticisms fell victim to certain type of stench that smelled a bit too formulaic and cliche. And it continues to this day.

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  691. rocco November 25, 2011 at 8:40 pm #

    We did not need to worry that JHK dow average predications are off. Look at society around you, behavior,the quality and peace in your neighborhoods. I work at a job that keeps me in contact with first responders of all types and we have noticed significant rise in physical assaults and other crimes that our one newspaper in town will skip over 80% of them to keep the image of the city. Black Friday violence had several incidents in my area that the press did not report. To my fellow left wingers we must arm ourselves to protect our families not from your neighbor who may be a right winger but from the barbians out there. Its all good!, or as Mad Magazine tells you,”What me, Worry?” Shop now Easter is just around the corner.

  692. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 8:42 pm #

    Native Americans? Don’t think so. Blacks? Very violent people and not very smart. They don’t fit in here at all. Lincoln, Jeferson, and many others wanted to send them back to Africa. Look it up.

  693. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 8:46 pm #

    Some things are beyond race – and some things aren’t. Race is far more than skin color but also deals with hormone levels, size and shape of the brain, etc.

  694. progress2conserve November 25, 2011 at 8:51 pm #

    “Boy, reading Fred Reed is like standing on a narrow ledge between freight trains heading in opposite directions – don’t let your agenda get too comfortable.”
    -buck stud-
    Interesting analogy, buck. I’d prefer to think those two freight trains were both roaring off toward Truth, but at different speeds. That makes it no less disorienting to the unwary, though.
    And Vlad, this Fred’s for you; be sure you read the second paragraph. Then read it again.
    http://www.fredoneverything.net/UnderclassLetter.shtml
    I’m about 10 years behind Fred. He came through public school before desegregation. I lived right through the middle Hell of it. Yet I still refuse to generalize and I will always refuse to hate a group – because there are good men and women in every group.
    I reserve my hate for individuals and policies, without regard to race.
    That’s the system we’ve got.
    And it’s the American way – what’s left of it.

  695. rippedthunder November 25, 2011 at 8:59 pm #

    Yo CFT, maybe ya missed it.The question was ” What’s the differance between a Ferrari and a dead baby?”.my answer was “I don’t have a Ferrari in my garage!”. I thought it was a hoot, but then again I am a warped bastard.

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  696. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 9:01 pm #

    Check this out. Kunstler is well known and read by the Right. And they concur with you about the Liberal Left in general and Mr Kunstler too – despite his occasional faux folksiness.
    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011/11/the-gilmore-girls-occupy-wall-street/#more-20558

  697. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 9:08 pm #

    I think alot of the critics may have little or no visual sense at all. So they write about what they can’t see. They can’t stand being left out so they buy or open galleries, get on the board at museums, etc. Once in power, they can dictate to artists and effect “taste” – warp it in other words. I’ve heard most of them are Jews – what do you think?
    Jews have a wonderful musical, literary, and scientific tradition. Visual not so much.
    Don’t know what the “blue period” is.

  698. anti soak November 25, 2011 at 9:12 pm #

    PP painted blue paintings…
    Picasso was a GREAT con man and self promoter!
    As was Warhol.

  699. Buck Stud November 25, 2011 at 9:14 pm #

    Prog,
    I think Reed has his ear to the ground on a lot of issues and I enjoyed reading him.( His most recent column on Republicans is a real howler.) One thing that bothers me though is he seems to place too much stock in the meritocracy of America. Which is fine as far as it goes, but that is less and less in America 2011 or so it feels to me. Perhaps that particular column was dated and Reed is no spring chicken, but I have to believe there are some systemic barriers that were not so tall when Reed was a young man.

  700. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 9:14 pm #

    I agree with him that Blacks used to do better. So one could say therefore that they could do better again – but that would be too optimistic. They did better when we in control and they couldn’t get out of line like they do now. And they do better in Africa in their own traditional societies by themselves. But wherever that equation breaks down and they have to deal with us as equals – everything goes to hell. They aren’t our equals and never will be. All research shows this. Fred is wrong about that – if that’s what he thinks.

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  701. lbendet November 25, 2011 at 9:19 pm #

    Vlad,
    That was one twisted crazy romp around Omeara’s head, that’s for sure.
    Oddly entertaining–I feel like II just dropped acid.

  702. Buck Stud November 25, 2011 at 9:25 pm #

    So let me get this straight. Art critics were predominantly Jewish but there is a dearth of good Jewish artists? So much for cultural nepotism eh Vlad?
    In truth they are many truly great Jewish visual artists, many of whom are relatively obscure to be sure.
    There is an amazing gallery of Jewish artists in Jerusalem that that I peruse at least once a week.

  703. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 9:43 pm #

    “I refuse to generalize” – that’s your faith speaking. Generalizing is thinking, or at least one type. Say a teacher notices over the years what poor students Blacks are – this is observation which leads to a generalization “Blacks are below Whites in IQ” – this is inductive logic. He could then test to see if this was true by controlling for socio economic level before giving IQ tests.
    All this has been done many times and some of the tests have involved large numbers of kids. Blacks come out well below Whites everytime.
    A nation must be by for people who do the opposite of you: be willing to have it be so – whatever it is. Or as one scientist put it, “A scientist must sit down before the facts like a little child”.

  704. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 9:45 pm #

    Oh what the hell, post the link. I’ll challenge myself to show everyone how it’s done.
    As Herbert Spencer said, ugliness if a fact that destroys a beautiful theory.

  705. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 9:52 pm #

    Good, Good!

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  706. lpat November 25, 2011 at 9:54 pm #

    Petroleum Junkies of the World, Unite! Friday 25 November 2011, Craig Collins, Truthout.com

  707. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 10:09 pm #

    “Medevial Warm period tough to erase” – but why should these “climate scientists” want to erase anything? Don’t they care about the Truth? I know, that’s so unsophisticated. Just like the Bill of Rights and invdividual justice as opposed to class and race reparations.
    http://iceagenow.info/2011/11/juicy-climategate-emails/

  708. lpat November 25, 2011 at 10:15 pm #

    The Need to Relocalize Our Economies, Tuesday 15 November 2011, Thom Hartmann, http://www.truth-out.org/new-entrepreneurial-boom/1321373798

  709. Ixnei November 25, 2011 at 10:17 pm #

    “WhereTF is *Q* when you need him!!!”
    There he is, summoned like a Djinn (rub it out, ala lamp!), only 18 minutes later!!! Eat that poor boy Soker up, limb from limb!!! He failed miserably to “Corexit” my errors (at least 3 – props to single malt!) He seems to have conflict with the 30 year old Jew/60 year old Black, and his own SS paycheck…
    Oh, yeah, I was out last night at 10PM, “BLACK THURSDAYING”… “rIIIght”!!! They’ll be lucky to pinch me for another dime in the next 4 weeks…
    It’s *possible* – it might *happen*!!!

  710. lpat November 25, 2011 at 10:19 pm #

    The raiding parties in west Africa and the enclosure movement were not violations of individuals rights, you extremely tiresome dipwad.

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  711. asoka. November 25, 2011 at 10:28 pm #

    In my tribe the tradition every Thanksgiving is to listen to this 19 minute song.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_7C0QGkiVo
    ALICE’S RESTAURANT

  712. Ixnei November 25, 2011 at 10:48 pm #

    “But that is exactly the point I have been making – the predictions on this site have been poor, by JHK and others, especially related to timeframes. That is just a fact.”
    Fractals will not save you from my prediction that will be resolved in about 36 days – hottest year on record for the planet. And I will not go on, ad nauseum, about how the next 2 years will *both* set records above and beyond!
    I am the penultimate skeptic – I’m still not quite convinced that man made it to the moon. I’m sure machines did, *however*…
    Take that how you may…

  713. Ixnei November 25, 2011 at 10:53 pm #

    Alice’s restaurant! Ahaha!!! Is that you, my brother-in-law? I heard your were all going off the deep end, into SHAMBALA!!!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDpVS7D9AJs

  714. Vlad Krandz November 25, 2011 at 10:54 pm #

    It’s interesting how what they tried to do in Antelope, Oregon – swamp the place with minorites until they could out vote the locals – is exactly what our Elite are doing Nation wide, and in Europe as well. It was a perfect microscom of coming evil, a forerunner or herald.
    Have you heard anything about the White Nationalist yogi of Portland, Mickunas? He is in the Kryia Lineage – initiated by Yogananda in a dream. I’m reading his retranslation of the Yoga Sutras with commentary. He put the verses in a different, more coherent order. He seems to have alot of yogic knowledge and I’m getting alot out of it.
    http://yogasutras.com/
    His conspiracy and White Nationalist site is Whiteid.com

  715. Ixnei November 25, 2011 at 10:54 pm #

    I can tell my brother, by the flowers in his eyes!!!

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  716. Ixnei November 25, 2011 at 10:57 pm #

    Vlad – Vlad!!! Why, oh why, are you so against the most pure whitebread humans – the Jews? You are just a mindless Nazi.

  717. asoka. November 25, 2011 at 11:06 pm #

    Ixnei, thank you for that video! Yes I done gone off the deep end and that video shows part of my tribe

  718. anti soak November 25, 2011 at 11:06 pm #

    Doubt Id like him..I like the best of the best..
    forget the rest!

  719. Ixnei November 25, 2011 at 11:46 pm #

    “10 years after!
    Tell me where is sanity?
    everywhere theres [censored]”
    Freaks and hairies, dykes and faeries?
    Not sure why that was *censored*…
    And, it’s *40* years after… Senators – *STOP THE WARS*!!!

  720. Ixnei November 25, 2011 at 11:51 pm #

    Soker, you know you have more to show – present it! I’m not going to loose!!! You dove off the deep end, so *WHAT* – ahahaha!
    Let’s mash this sh!t into tribes? CONSTANTINE!!!

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  721. asoka. November 26, 2011 at 12:10 am #

    Ixnei, I cannot continue posting so much or ProCon will get really angry. He already said about someone: “I do despise that one poster, though – mainly because of his insipid insipidity and frenetic frequency.” I don’t want ProCon to get that angry with me, so I’ll have to limit my posts today.

  722. anti soak November 26, 2011 at 12:40 am #

    How America Can Escape the Energy Trap
    Wall Street J:
    by MORTIMER ZUCKERMAN
    {The good news is that the United States is at the center of a global energy revolution!!!!!!!!!!]
    Can America escape the energy trap? Must our lives and security be forever held hostage to the vagaries of political power in the Middle East oil states? The answers to these questions are yes, and no. Thanks to American technology and enterprise, we can achieve a degree of energy security that once seemed hopeless—but only if we can sort out our priorities.
    The good news is that the United States is at the center of a global energy revolution. Our development of innovative shale-gas technology offers the prospect of a huge bonanza of natural gas (and some oil as well). It’s the most positive event in the country’s energy outlook in 50 years. Let’s celebrate the achievement before looking at what needs to be done to bring it to fruition.
    Our geologists have long been aware that gas (and oil) lies hidden in the country’s shale beds and under the ocean, but we had no chance to extract it until American entrepreneurial energy inspired companies to gamble on new technologies.
    In a phrase, technology has trumped geology. Advances in computer-processing power yielded seismic mapping and three-dimensional imaging, enabling geologists to “see” through the thick layers of rock and salt obscuring the reservoirs thousands of feet below the surface. And new drilling technologies allow us to ……………

  723. Buck Stud November 26, 2011 at 1:04 am #

    “I’ll challenge myself to show everyone how it’s done.”
    Do what – pronounce a declaration of good or bad art? But there really is no accounting for taste, Vlad. Just be happy if you get that funny aesthetic feeling in your own stomach, or ancient emanations of Dalraidia before a thunderstorm.

  724. Vlad Krandz November 26, 2011 at 1:14 am #

    Please don’t eat the daisies.

  725. Vlad Krandz November 26, 2011 at 1:28 am #

    Totally in the eye of the beholder? I don’t believe that for a second. Rather, among good things, people with good taste may prefer one more than another. There is complication I grant. Some can’t see the value of something while another can. But it’s an exaggeration to say that it’s all subjective. The person may grow and suddenly “see” what he missed before.

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  726. Vlad Krandz November 26, 2011 at 1:44 am #

    Life is a box of chocolates, you never know what you’re going to get. Sometimes there’s a map, and that’s the scriptures. But sometimes you just have to take your chances.

  727. wagelaborer November 26, 2011 at 1:45 am #

    No, it’s better that way!
    I used to know so many dead baby jokes, back when I worked NICU. Good times.
    I don’t remember any now.

  728. wagelaborer November 26, 2011 at 1:48 am #

    Hello? Did I say ALL the parades were boring? No, I did not.
    Just Murphsyboro.

  729. asoka. November 26, 2011 at 1:50 am #

    E. said: “Only 64% of eligible people are participating in the workforce.”
    ==================
    Supposedly credit cards maxed out, unemployment checks have run out, supposedly the country is broke, millions losing their homes … that is the mantra here on CFN.
    So explain record swarms of shoppers today. At Sears 900 stores, at 4:00 am, there were lines of from 100 to 600 shoppers. What are they using for money if the country is broke and only 64% are participating in the workforce?
    I don’t believe your figure of 64%, E. We just passed through a perfectly normal Thanksgiving Day and Black Friday, and no one was getting on the Blue Bus.

  730. anti soak November 26, 2011 at 1:57 am #

    A gal in Santa Barbara says that at Target and Sears
    the announcements are now in Spanish and SB town is 40% mexicans…the white carpenters, gardeners etc have fled, unable to live on 8$ an hour.

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  731. wagelaborer November 26, 2011 at 1:59 am #

    I’m not quite clear why you gave the man a kewpie doll, Ozone.
    If it’s because he blames the economic crisis on expensive oil, than what about the 1935 10 cents a barrel oil?
    Doesn’t that little statistic blow his theory all to hell?

  732. wagelaborer November 26, 2011 at 2:09 am #

    Well, here you go, CT, another bizarre factoid for you to chew on.
    Leftists do not look down on the “lower classes”.
    That is because leftists believe that there are two classes, the capitalist class and the working class. (The 1% and the 99%). Leftists champion the working class, which I’m assuming you’re calling the lower class. So we can’t possibly “look down” on the working class.
    Leftists believe that the capitalist class exploits the working class, and expropriates the value that the working class produces. Leftists believe that the working class should receive the full value of what they produce.
    So your belief that leftists look down on lower classes came from somewhere other than actual contact with actual leftists.
    Rush Limbaugh? Fox News? I’m just taking a wild leap here.

  733. asoka. November 26, 2011 at 2:14 am #

    The U6 unemployment rate is 16%.
    http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp
    You are saying it is 34%
    What is your source?

  734. asoka. November 26, 2011 at 2:16 am #

    CORRECTION
    100 less 64 = 36%
    U6 is 16% not 36%.
    Did you just pull that number of 64% out of the air, E.?

  735. Buck Stud November 26, 2011 at 2:28 am #

    You make a great point. Many times a classical music piece has initially left me cold, only to later reveal depths and layers that I missed on the first go around. Of course, that is somewhat a double-edged sword. For instance, those who deride Picasso might be accused of not really understanding Cubism. Still, nobody has ever really defined good taste; it’s mostly a cultural approbation which fluctuates with the times. Yesterday’s Van Gogh which held open a cottage window is today’s insured masterpiece worth millions of dollars.

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  736. Eleuthero November 26, 2011 at 3:51 am #

    The thing which Fresco said with which I agree MOST is that you cannot expect children to be educated about the world if the parents are not educated. And he did not mean “educated” in the narrow, pedagogical sense of the word. Fresco is, above all, about an education that focuses on how things WORK. In this respect he is a TRUE “engineer”. Most parents now are so narrowly educated that they don’t know how hot boiling water is, the freezing point of water, what the main artery to the heart is, who invented the printing press and why was it such a breakthrough?
    In other words, the POLYMATH is dying. Everybody is becoming a narrow, Huxleyan cog in a machine that runs on money. Fresco is a great thinker because he is the OPPOSITE of abstract. He is the ultimate realist.
    E.

  737. Eleuthero November 26, 2011 at 4:02 am #

    Idiot said:
    I don’t believe your figure of 64%, E. We just passed through a perfectly normal Thanksgiving Day and Black Friday, and no one was getting on the Blue Bus.
    ***************************************************************
    Go to the site below … a FEDERAL site from the BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS.
    http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000
    Now that you’ve seen the figure of 64.3% of civilian participation in the labor force, I’m going to make YOU educate yourself on how the unemployment rate is computed and what the difference is between that and labor force participation.
    You tried to set a trap and, like the fucking bloviating numbskull you are … always demanding proof from OTHERS … you just got your own leg crunched off by your own trap. Gawd, you fancy yourself a Buddhist and yet with the passage of months and years you are still consumed by ego and ignorance. You’ll be stuck in Samsara … FOREVER … because to get out you must change your own state. You’re the same smiling demon you’ve always been … with your mean-grinning hate disguised as lightness.
    It took me TEN SECONDS and ONE GOOGLE SEARCH to find the site with the 64% figure I knew to be true. I won’t do your legwork for you again if you ever have the temerity to challenge my factual integrity again. EVER!!! Capiche???
    E.

  738. Eleuthero November 26, 2011 at 4:13 am #

    Hi, LB!! I agree that, to a large extent, humans of any stripe don’t think there’s an emergency until it hits their household. However, I think you’ll agree that there are regional differences, sometimes huge. Europe, in recent years, has a much better record on fighting for their rights than Americans or Canadians or Australians. I remember when the Iraq War was young and cities in Europe had demonstrations with half a million people.
    Americans are geographically isolated and this only adds to the normal human propensity to think that the “other guy’s problem” isn’t ours and won’t be. However, I have this nagging feeling that Europe’s economic decay will play out in one to three years while ours is likely to be a sudden implosion because of one wildcard … the bankruptcy of about 40 of the 50 individual states.
    OWS is, in a sense, a demonstration that reveals the first reaction to our OWN economic decay with 16% of people being “food insecure” and far, far more than that below the poverty line. If you think the violence of the Oakland OWS rally got out of hand, imagine what will happen when all the fake high tech “jobs” in the Bay Area with fake companies like GroupOn dissolve. OWS is just the first warning shot over the bough. In the second half of this decade, the Europeans will be looking at us like we are looking at them right now!!!
    E.

  739. Eleuthero November 26, 2011 at 4:18 am #

    Zuckerman is a classic Pollyanna who probably has no idea how little of that gas is recoverable. Does this dude or his ilk ever visit The Oil Drum which is findable on Google by typing “Peak Oil” very quickly?
    Moreover, the fracking of shale rock to get ANYTHING is proving to be a far greater environmental danger than initially thought. It has already created severe water table poisoning in the Marcellus Formation in NE Pennsylvania already … an event that has received REMARKABLY little press coverage … which you expect from media that are controlled by multi-national conglomerates.
    E.

  740. truthteller November 26, 2011 at 5:55 am #

    {No. Women (and their male enablers) broke the Social Contract decades ago. Most Men have no idea what these people belive: all heterosexual intercourse is rape, destruction of the family, discover a way to decrease the number of men – and feminize the remaining ones and so on. And men like me who try to them are laughed to scorn. Thus the dispossesion of men and the redistribution of their wealth to their ex-wives continues apace. And now women wonder why men are on a marriage strike!
    And who teaches boys in schools? The same kind of gorgons – who teach them to be ashamed of their sex, race, and culture. Cruelty unspeakable. Good people must abandon Public Schools en masse if we are to have any future at all.}
    You have truly lost your goddamned mind, finally, Vlad! Slipped right off the deep end, truly gone fishing, bars in the window. They must have taken your marbles away . . . you are crazy! You truly believe that all of us women folks are cunts! We’re all out to “feminize” men and strip them of their manhood. BULLSHIT! I’d go so far as to say, I wish you fuckers would stand up to the DEMANDS of manhood, more than you do . . . don’t puss out and force women to carry around cojones, and maybe we wouldn’t feel the NEED TO! Shut the fuck up, and MAN UP.
    Hope this HELPS.

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  741. DeeJones November 26, 2011 at 6:50 am #

    “If it’s because he blames the economic crisis on expensive oil, than what about the 1935 10 cents a barrel oil?”
    Ummm….. What were wages back then? Something like $.25 cents an hour? A house cost just a few thousand dollars, a loaf of bread was a nickle.
    Get it in PERSPECTIVE.
    And I’m so glad for you that ALL the parades are not boring.
    :{

  742. tegmark November 26, 2011 at 6:59 am #

    Study all my past posts, my mind is the best mind ever as we can see where all the “other minds” brought us. Anyways the problem is:
    1) Even when consumerism does increase, and even if it increases a lot (for example there are now 12 million car sales in the USA yearly compared to 9 million 2 years ago, a huge increase in “consumerism” from an objective and not relative point of view) it generates very few new jobs, the system is automatic, the economy is technological and optimized, the robots and computers and some poor country’s low paid labor is doing that little extra work that is left to do. So increased consumerism doesn’t create many new jobs.
    2) The reason no one ever talks about how the system kills way more jobs than create new ones, is that saying that would imply that the entire Standard Economic model is flawed from the outset, is false, is a losing proposition and the only way to counteract that effect is to force the creation of jobs by governments hiring, the exact opposite of what all governments are doing. And the reason why no one says that Economic Growth is finished and over in the USA, EU and JAPAN is because this also implies the same as above, the model is broken, it can’t work anymore, all debts are now unpayable, etc. So again, the only solution is for the governments to step in and hire millions and huge public private projects, etc. Just like when a war breaks out, all of a sudden the governments find all the resources they can to fight wars that last years, so the same should be done today, a complete change of paradigma, of model and social projects, get out of punishment mode and sacrifice mode.
    3) What we need is a huge increase in goals, projects and consumerism, a huge increase in activity, we need bold new projects, we need the new generation concentrated on landing on Mars and extracting resources from the Solar System, we need to go forward. And this is done by huge public and private entities paying for it by the FED and the ECB (European Central Bank) and the BAJ (Bank of JAPAN) printing trillions and paying for all of it.
    Instead, everyone is playing computer games with money (after all, the debts and banks and stock markets, etc. are just one gaint computer game not producing anything, just an arena for status challenges, for power trips between people, for confrontations on who wins the next round of poker, etc.), everyone thinks that they will become the new Bill Gates or Steve Jobs (that was a one time quirk, you can’t invent the personal computer or windows all over again, and there is very little real novelties left to invent) as in the myth of the startups and new entrepreuners and be your own boss, and new small businesses, innovation, competition, more education, etc. all BS buzzwords that mean nothing will change, the rich will keep on hogging trillions and there will be less and less work since you will never be competitive or innovative or educated enough, since you will never be able to discover electricity again and invent computers all over again, etc.
    And eveyone thinks that we have all of these environmental problems, all of these greens scaredy cats against Atom Energy and such, against huge increases in Mass Consumption, they all believe in Peak Oil and such BS, etc.
    Instead we need to hire millions, build those skyscrapers, you can do it, get out of punishment mode (eveyone blaming everonye else of “not working” when work is obsolete structurally) all the governments following the same idiotic formulas destined to fail such as paying back impossible debts, cutting jobs, cutting waste and all such BS, where will that take you ? They should be doing the exact opposite, what insane civilization, what insanity, wake up, get out of punishment mode and get those Rockets to Mars, jackasses.
    Now, go on,reply with a one liner, reply with some idiotic standard ideology, don’t propose anything really new, don’t try to figure out some new path, go on, say the “Invisible hand” of the market will create millions of jobs, tell that to the JAPANESE especially, or to more than half of the USA, go on with the BS.

  743. DeeJones November 26, 2011 at 6:59 am #

    “I remember when the Iraq War was young and cities in Europe had demonstrations with half a million people.”
    You don’t remember the HUGE demonstrations here in the USA? Sad, shows how the rite-wing & media have erased history.
    Just to remind you, there were demonstrations of at least a million in DC alone, and in the hundreds of thousands in other large, major US cities just before the invasion of Iraq. But of course the media ALWAYS under counted & under reported, and instead focused on the few hundred ‘support our troops’ folks that showed up.
    Sad, if people believe no one protested the invasion of Iraq, and the death of over at least a million of Iraqies, then how will the OWsers even have a chance?
    :[

  744. tegmark November 26, 2011 at 7:02 am #

    And in fact the Right Wing Thug answers:
    Here’s my one-liner:
    You’re not proposing anything new either: I thought all the same things when I was 4. Most children think things like that.
    from:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=177391
    Come on with the one liners jackasses, no one has ever attempted some deeper analysis, they are all broekn robots and records just repating the Standard Econmic Myth and Model. Try to think a little bit, will you ?

  745. Widespreadpanic7 November 26, 2011 at 7:07 am #

    Hey Ozone somebody mentioned ‘Alice’s Restaurant’!
    That’s in your neck of the woods, ain’t it?
    Is that restaurant still in business? Have you ever seen Arlo around, say, at the grocery store, or at Tuckers?
    Every once in awhile, on Outlaw Country (XM Radio) they will play;
    “Coming into Los Angeleees,
    Bringing in a coupla Keys,
    Don’t touch my bags if you please,
    … Mr. Customs Man”
    –WSP7

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  746. ozone November 26, 2011 at 7:53 am #

    Wage,
    What he was pointing out is that economic/financial transactions are all [understandably] based on ENERGY. And a good deal of other natterings that take place here simply highlight distracted or downright delusional behavior.
    Nope, ’twasn’t the “culcha”, ’twas the bullshit engendered by an anomalous energy glut (and the comforts and ease to be SOLD thereby) kilt the beast. (…And warped what “culcha” there was.)
    How do you think the commodification-of-everything came about? (Well mebbe the “dominion over the earth” folks didn’t help in that particular. ;o)

  747. charliefoxtrot November 26, 2011 at 8:10 am #

    yeah, hey, that s humorus…that was just the first thing to occur to me, & i thought it was at least callous, if not gross…that was what you were after, right? here s one for ya: “oklahoma panhandle, ca 1958: a cowboy and a rodeo clown both ride horse into a salloon…when the the cowboy plops a dead baby onto the bar next to a half- empty shot glass…the barkeeper looks up and says, what is this, a fuckin’ joke?!”

  748. lbendet November 26, 2011 at 8:12 am #

    DeeJones,
    There were quite a few demonstrations here in NYC too. Starting with Afghanistan and then Iraq. Some were right at Union Square where the green market is.
    There are many in this country that protest any war on principle and have been out there protesting and joining the OWSers since the Viet Nam protests. You can always count on them. In fact the last time I visited the OWSers I met a guy around my age who was a Viet Nam vet, who makes it a prioity to join anti-war and other protests. He showed my pictures on his phone of his arrest in Washington.
    That said, I agree with E. in that there was not enough protests to draw attention to the anti-war movement that took place at the time of the Iraqi invasion.
    You could say about the media that if a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it, did it happen. If the media thinks it can sell advertising they will cover it. (show me the money)
    Around that time I attended a lecture at Cooper Union put together by FAIR (media council). It featured David Korn and Barbara Ehrenreich among other speakers who claimed they were kicked off the air even on MSNBC!. That’s right, my friends while the neocons steam-rolled their agenda nobody was going to get in their way. They are back on air, now.(Forces other than the all-mighty dollar were afoot)
    The dialog, if you could call it that was amazing at Fox. The last time I turned to that channel was when some hysterical lady shrieked to another, who was against the Iraq invasion “Do you want to have to wear a burqua?” What a debate!
    Some free press, eh?
    _________________________
    E., I have no doubt that we are heading for a rude awakening, even now as our Repug-na-can’t wanna-bes are getting new talking points from David Addington, neo-con extrodinaire, now with the Heritage Foundation. They can’t wait to start another $Trillion-escapde in Iran.
    Hmmm–Did we ask China whether we can do this?

  749. ozone November 26, 2011 at 8:15 am #

    “Hey Ozone somebody mentioned ‘Alice’s Restaurant’!
    That’s in your neck of the woods, ain’t it?
    Is that restaurant still in business? Have you ever seen Arlo around, say, at the grocery store, or at Tuckers?” -WSP
    Sorta this stretched-out neck o’ the woods. ;o)
    That church abides still, as a music-banging venue. (Nice sound in thar, BTW.)
    Here’s a link:
    http://guthriecenter.org/
    Nope, never saw him hangin’ ’round HERE, but I’m sure Stockbridgians get a glimpse from time to time.
    I opened for Arlo in Winsted (of a long ago), in a little nightclub on Main that the owner quickly snorted up his GD nose. Arlo let me noodle on his REALLY NICE Martin 12 in the dressing room. (I didn’t ask; he offered, seeing that I was tuning my cranky ol’ Epiphone 12.) That made quite an impression on me. Nice, regular fella.

  750. charliefoxtrot November 26, 2011 at 8:35 am #

    …i see the typo, thar, q…

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  751. lbendet November 26, 2011 at 8:43 am #

    Zuckerman is a classic Pollyanna…
    Z is a good soldier, isn’t he?
    Fact is there isn’t much there, there when you consider the long term needs, but that doesn’t stop them from plowing ahead.
    Why, they’d break the earth in two if they had to just to get a little more t keep the good ship lollipop going a little further…
    Kinda reminds me of a story an ex-boyfriend, med student once told me.
    A radiologist from Texas was lecturing his class about using radiation on brain tumors. One student raised his hand and said, “What about radio-resistant tumors?”
    The radiologist roared back, “Radio-resistant?, nonsense, I’ll melt your head”.
    (need I say more?)

  752. uixqyqzqmc November 26, 2011 at 9:13 am #

    ; * China Famous Tea
    ? 1. West Lake Longjing
    ? 2. Dongting Biluochun
    ? 3. Silver Needle
    ? 4. Lushan Cloud
    ? 5. QI
    ? 6. Huangshan Mao Feng
    ? 7. ?????
    ? 8. Yunnan Pu’er tea
    ? 9. Dong Ding Oolong
    ? 10. Suzhou jasmine tea

  753. rippedthunder November 26, 2011 at 9:24 am #

    I’m pretty sure Arlo hails from Washington , Ma these days. And no you can’t get there from here.

  754. rippedthunder November 26, 2011 at 9:27 am #

    Hey O3, I have an Epiphone 12 ,FT-165, your lucky yours is only cranky. Mine is gotdamn sadistic!

  755. ozone November 26, 2011 at 9:39 am #

    lol!
    Washingtoon, eh? Well, well.
    You basically can’t get ANYWHERE from here, either.

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  756. ozone November 26, 2011 at 9:46 am #

    RT,
    I use a Guild D-25 now, but a 12’s a 12.
    CFR. No, not Council on Foreign Relics; “Constant Fiddling Required”. Especially when suffering under my merciless beatings. (I can change a string PDQ, however; lots of experience!)

  757. ozone November 26, 2011 at 10:05 am #

    European bank “exposure to debt”, from the AE:
    “So you have all these bad assets, which lose value on a daily basis. And even today, they don’t sell. Next thing to happen is price discovery, selling them for whatever a potential buyer is willing to pay. Which is less and less, on a daily basis. Without help from the ECB, read Germany, one bank after another will fold.
    Unless the US steps in through the Fed and the IMF. But there no longer seems to be any political appetite for this in Washington. Doesn’t mean it can’t happen, but it’ll necessarily be a convoluted affair if it does. America might do better allowing select banks to default.”
    IMHO, despite there being “no political appetite” for a bailout of Eurozone banks, that’s exactly what will happen. The risk of exposing the “value” of [the supposed] assets they’re holding is just too great to be contemplated. That would spell trouble for the Masters of the Universe. The final nail in the coffin of confidence in the markets; the great Ponzi revealed.

  758. ozone November 26, 2011 at 10:09 am #

    A link for those few interested:
    http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2011/11/november-25-2011-deleveraging-there.html

  759. asoka. November 26, 2011 at 10:12 am #

    You tried to set a trap and, like the fucking bloviating numbskull you are … always demanding proof from OTHERS … you just got your own leg crunched off by your own trap.

    Thank you for expressing your opinion.
    I was not trying to “set a trap.” I was simply expressing incredulity (based on not understanding labor participation rates, which are actually civilian labor participation rates which you described as “eligible.”
    I also did not know that the labor participation rates have gone up from 58% in the 1960s.
    You once said on CFN that, in your decades of teaching computer programming, not one Black student had ever graduated from your class. I now appreciate that statement, and I am happy that you are now retired from teaching.
    Gawd, you fancy yourself a Buddhist and yet with the passage of months and years you are still consumed by ego and ignorance. You’ll be stuck in Samsara … FOREVER … because to get out you must change your own state.
    The goose is out!

  760. rippedthunder November 26, 2011 at 10:14 am #

    Ya gotta love that high G, BING!!, shit

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  761. JonathanSS November 26, 2011 at 10:26 am #

    You forgot to mention buses. Millions of them…and splitting the Sun in half and grabbing it’s energy.

  762. anti soak November 26, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    Posting at 1 am?
    BUT, ‘they’can promise cleaner, safer fracking.Yes?

  763. The Mook November 26, 2011 at 10:52 am #

    Looks like a Christmas miracle for the kinfolk JHK. The NBA is back jut in time for those boys to cash their paychecks and head to the Jewelry store to buy rocks for their ears, noses, and cocks. God bless Mr. Goshow. Me? Looks like jelly of the month club again.

  764. asoka. November 26, 2011 at 10:59 am #

    The Rapture folks say no one can know the day or hour, but they assure us it will happen.
    The Black Swan folks say no one can know the day or hour, but they assure us it will happen.
    Bah humbug!
    JHK posted last Sunday and now it is Saturday. The week passed uneventfully. No Black Swans, no Rapture. But the Dow could crash to 4,000 next week, so be sure to stay properly frightened.
    With fear comes depression and paralysis and self-fulfilling prophecy..

  765. progress2conserve November 26, 2011 at 11:07 am #

    From The Motley Fool – a stock investing advisement group – comes the following piece of divergent thinking. Many of you will find it interesting.
    The 33 comments at the end are at least as interesting as the main article – representing a cross section of (mostly) US investors of relatively modest means.
    http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2011/11/23/the-next-economic-revolution.aspx
    “This Singularity University is a hub for forward-thinking experts to learn about robotics, artificial intelligence, and other key technologies of the next century.
    What’s conspicuously absent is a serious discussion of this future’s economy. For hundreds of years people have brushed aside Luddite complaints and kept on creating new jobs out of the ashes of dead industries. However, the link between technological gains and employment growth is becoming frayed.”
    -motley fool-
    ————
    Buck and Vlad – I’ll get back to you before the end of the day, as permitted by TV football and the family social calendar.
    ———–
    ———–
    And 8M – you will appreciate this Motley Fool link, perhaps most of all. Your CFN posts are unique. That makes you more of an asset to the thread than some. At least you write from a generally consistent philosophical framework.
    You will be more believable, though, if you write SHORTER posts, with less repetition.
    -just friendly advice-

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  766. Buck Stud November 26, 2011 at 11:37 am #

    “That said, I agree with E. in that there was not enough protests to draw attention to the anti-war movement that took place at the time of the Iraqi invasion.”
    And not only that, but the inevitable opening salvos of the Iraqi war was marketed with terms like “shock and awe”, as it bombing another country was opening night of a Star Wars sequel, or the Fourth of July on steroids.
    Protests you say? Most Americans were too busy buying popcorn in advance.

  767. fgmgpxnwt November 26, 2011 at 11:43 am #

    This article published by the Xiaoxiang ? Enji in: wo de site

    now there are many non-mainstream street girls, one wearing a complicated packages of whole *** * head, wearing a stylish, black eye shadow, tattoos, pierced ears, tongue rings or something,sacs moncler, flirtatious activities in every corner of the city
    and boys mixed together a bunch of waste, standing on the street more than 10 **** yelling in public places together, that he is very Diao, Diao each hand smoke mostly with the late 80 P and 90 years of small children
    not read every day, just know to play the character, if I is not your parents Y, pumping your death??
    forget this, you punk group of women, also love when the game goes on such a small film when the toys get put, no so-called pure love only dress fashion, Play It Cool, and fool around in order to attract men you
    90 years of these people rely on you if the day be destroyed
    soak in cafes, beating the J5 group, coarse like a horse, then BS-ing the old rogue
    What to play complex characters
    MD Hari series of small group P bitch you had I looked at all day, so tired of you tired of not
    kind of strange feeling whenever I go on the road to see a group of standard I like the non-mainstream saw the ghost guy naughty Pizi
    see ganging two to play ONE NIGHT IN BED went
    Every time I see such a small P twat behind me will see two pairs of parents helpless look
    point you naughty man to woman ah forget you get so many parents worry ah?
    non-mainstream, a few years ago began to hear a word. literal understanding is that non-mainstream not a mainstream means. That is the meaning of the above explanation does not blindly follow the trend of an alternative consciousness.
    always think is a very noble thing. I think beginning to hear some of these people feel very roaring of cattle X PUNK ROCK family or hero of The Beatles such a loyal follower. I feel that these are anni baby book, the petty bourgeoisie middle class of those things.
    After several years as the late 1980s and early 1990s secondary growth. respected community spread the word. slowly began civilians. erosion of, nausea oriented.
    this transformation to a lot of things become very deformed the crowd wearing habits. the tone of voice. and even the wording also There are habits. is a serious point that society began to pathological development.
    some time ago to see a post in the MOP. I even went to DAVID discussed. the subject called I feel the same to say that he says there are a lot of posts is correct. eighty later, our generation. mounted depression. loaded decadence. unrealistic expectations.
    narrow-minded, I accept we can realize We were wrong, we are changing in our fathers grandparents to review NB behavior in those brought to bear pressure and social pressure.
    but you? eighty beginning of the end of ninety young people. you still stupid do not pull ridiculed in that lean era -_-!!.
    our complete match those bad habits you change this and Gary Zhang post if you want me for it. you are the decline of the generation. start with the language, speak up.
    take a run on the QQ.
    good then do not say. mouth closed is even, lotus, Europe; l. powder – rice porridge. Jiangzi too resistant to even a fashion to represent you . coming or give me a aza baxia fighting means you har ha Korea.
    I Rede Qi you Y2. The name of a QQ Mang’s coming or you’ll get some.
    wisdom of a man Yeah some woman ah. name there called Jay Jay’s name has a bi Ying Ying’s called bi I do not know the name if you have a Cao called wisdom of these thing is not to say you let yourself go to nausea. But you can not get a feel so ashamed of wisdom ** ****( fear of being shielded Pinyin dangfu) show force ((fear of being shielded Pinyin saobi) bitch more simply exclude some wisdom for married brother did not call Jay Shibang Yu Ting’s have.
    write a QQ **** is even more scary. full line is I do not understand the word of health provision, he deliberately went to the teacher’s mother may be they do not know the language of the characters to express their naive ideas such as:
    hire helpers pain ? ?
    choke laughing eyes well-being of children? men caught Mi
    “ `overnight -. _.
    . _. talk
    __ One female
    together ?
    on ? *
    see, I really want to say a word. I went to your mother. looking fonts on the sick. see I just fucking sick on the content could not be bad.? you need to sell your personality so you??? have to find something to personalize foreign language please??
    you this is not foreign soil is not foreign soil of you when you are abc (ah, idiot)?
    good QQ space look comfortable in the message you want to get hold of KB file fuck **** what that disgusting bloody needle to puncture the chin .
    tied like a SM such as abuse ah now some more ‘non-mainstream’.**** file is both male and female children. clothes stripped clean. do feel very tempted nausea action. men of a proud woman an orgasm. I said I speak God gave him so many years did not so insignificant.
    ML ML so many years and have not seen such a log of ..
    QQ is so few word A title went completely do not understand what they want to express the meaning of ..? either the lyrics. or else an uncommon word. do not write a husband that I love you my wife I think you like and then the object is inside back. my wife and I love you. Honey I hit you PP. that nausea and strength I have now covered in linen. For these I have no control. do not say that much said, but you were TMD can not put some QQ ^ album _^(^_^ short, the following are used ^ _ ^, mainly to facilitate) a screenshot of it. is still below what the husband I always add a little resistance to you. wife. Hello ** like it. Well even if the as I can tolerate you, but you can not set in the second phase are the man put the pro men and women play women pictures. I read your space I just think you are playing me .. okay? Even so be it. you should not I look you in the face of the third image set which appear only put a few photos of your eyes. nose hair and fingernails. and even the eyelids -_-!! photos it … Or they borrow. video camera looks like a princess with confused eyes bigger than cattle. who do not know PS TMD liquefied tools? liner as eye shadow. also smoked Zhuangwan thing called the United States should take Brushes get hold of the red gills. also select all pixels of feathering to 5. get hold of Gaussian blur. watching cartoons with the same reality looks like a sow with you fool Who? brother you shoot video Well I according to impress on the film you did not visit the also put points POSE. confused what to get a table lamp her face pale. pale face under your finger put out a cool 5 iron ring on your finger is also did not give you shame. shiny platinum as the general. So also the line but you do not need a big man you have come to a close-up right ear?? I would strongly reminded Please to shoot video of you little brother according to Miss Big Brother Brother you do not want to nausea in the cafe right? can not afford a computer and you still afford private rooms cost you??
    .. I did not really see enough of your big brothers and big sisters are had enough.
    dress come to talk about it.
    now have a new term called the tide.’s called tidal wave was fierce burst. .**** walking the streets of shabu a head. black monstrous black eye. hands are full of jewelry NIKE shoes below a pair of jeans. levi I feel invincible foreign flavor to our generation. grabbed the money to buy a JJ NIKE360 had it a second thought.
    tide afford you these people are children of high society white silk cross I am wrong, then. you and your one on the 3000 wave of the less have it, we have to look at these small worship you cry .. later found out. streets are full of foreign stores. then think that you are wearing LV D & G should be the you dunk NB to only buy from those
    of us who ended up a real bargain of NB, these are quite good ..
    The most disgusting is the group of middle school children. may find to buy are fake expensive, directly to the M / B buy floats goods. get another point of Kazakh Korean clothes to wear, especially men’s hair and have to float up and walk the same time as -_-!! floated. woman to buy Japanese AV actress wore in the previous bubble socks. looked very cute, but you have to learn to learn as little attention to it .. see people wearing leather shoes that are equipped and you do not like the thing to wear shoes. no need to get ‘non-ordinary sense of’ sports shoes with the thing. really looked like when the National Republican soldiers … walking bounce you really think AV actress to wear socks you have the temperament AV Actress ??
    say love it
    play ^ _ ^ ^ _ ^ out of courtship nausea. according to the video pictures and even now in this popular play ******. I do not deny you like Li Yuchun, after all This post talk about that topic, but ask you to find out .******’s PT divided. Some people think he is a T. confused like a man on the same words. walk. people just could not walk the streets out. Flanagan sent the following things .. some P a good man will see the refueling of so and so so and so very handsome. that palace where so and so who would s very cute and you love to have a very tough battle. I think tmd you sick and you even les did not know what it means. still very confused their own fashion. read words in English are not. why do I insist you to understand a social heterogeneous population mean? a woman in love with a woman can be called les. you like to a woman posing as a man who you TMD Why is not correct due to go like a man when??? poor did not love my brothers in the street to see to several small beauty. even if they so stupid not to work hard can hook you have to put in some effort to consider. to explore the next she is les …
    hey, fashion nb of you. feel themselves non-mainstream of you. let the world become sick …
    As ^ _ ^ I will not say more. too lazy to listen to those ‘dance expert’ in the QQ group yelling.
    to so and so. jump one I jumped your mother head ah. pull you to the Tianfu Square. let your foot stand -_-!! President. give you 80 dB of HIP-HOP you do not do feet TMD flexible. into a Disco You also learn other people play a large windmill. even a few push-ups are down … you do not play upside down.
    ^ _ ^ Speaking of a set of your family .. my husband in a certain number of areas Love will come to step on step on step on it then who .. come on.
    I do not know, when you say these words you do not feel faint halo is not the syntax right?
    talking about ^ _ ^ love you a set of . so and so has a very handsome husband as Dylan Kuo as video over Hu Ge. MD video when you see your husband that is longer than the poodle hair, leaving only half of the palm below the mouth you can see that he handsome?? say the top few feet he is a lame you do not know? but also meet other people clean up the accident broke his legs in the game to continue his artistic life? not you?
    concluded that thinking.
    the vast majority of these children did not highly educated. Some high school did not even read. some day mediocrity of the bubble in Internet cafes. no money how to do?
    afraid of having an affair with blond hair wearing earrings led to eat riding a 125 guy riding a string of 125 motorcycle ride during the day and sleep on the sofa in cafe the evening by five dollars on the Internet.
    good little buddies along with his brother into the disco feel for the socialist big wave of reform. enjoy under the brothers’ love. or else just their ‘boyfriend’ (handsome T) visiting the Riverside Road. enter into the restaurant KTV. sing where in the end there did not understand the value of their existence they have to understand the value of parenting? quarrel with their parents all day. all day holding the South Korean youth magazine fantasy that he is the heroine. all day in the diary to write. their very unfortunate how depression . take a camera you can stand in front of the mirror in the toilet one day. You can participate in a super girl dying under the hot sun bitter Hou. see people say how your idol Jay Chou Li how you put the world’s most vulgar words can say. cats and dogs home a sick maid than you have you looked sad. People say that people give you a knife you. you are smarter than we temper. you criticize the teacher. dare to parents.’m away from home.’m cutting veins ** **. dare dare kiss on Internet cafes in the street smoking. dare to read my article dismissive. continue your non-mainstream ****.
    me, a little larger than you can outside the circle do what?
    era is so rolled over. instant you to our time, or another large lot. look back at yourself. is feeling. or sad ..
    people will grow up step by step, etc. When you understand your silly hope you know that tomorrow the sun is in your head instead of your feet. I did not qualify any education I most of this article is to vent their anger, but the last few words are sincere. Think about our past youth, ignorant. ridiculous, but not sad ….
    the spiritual life of those created by poor vulgar.

  768. Qshtik November 26, 2011 at 12:02 pm #

    Oh by the way Mook, my West Philly son Thom was here (central Joisey) with his girlfriend for T-day and I asked him about Salt and Pepper. He said, yeah sure, it’s right around the corner.
    I told him your earlier remark about the danger of making it from your car door to your son’s front door. Son Thom is such a good-hearted soul that he would never ever say a disparaging remark against any ethnic group but on hearing your comment he said “funny you should mention that.” He went on to describe several recent incidents in W. Philly that border on a sudden breakdown of law and order.
    In one incident he was approached by a black woman who was panhandling in front of a convenience store. Thom says “hold on I have to buy something here to break a twenty” (bless his liberal heart). He comes out of the store with a can of soda and as he’s fumbling with his money, intending to give her a one, she snatches all the bills out of his hands and takes off running. He flings the can of soda at her, hits her square in the back, she flinches but never breaks stride. When he walks on the street now he says he has started carrying a hoe just so he’ll have something that might serve as a weapon.

  769. rippedthunder November 26, 2011 at 12:29 pm #

    Howdy Q, I’d carry a hoe also, but I don’t think my wife would let me! ;o)

  770. dale November 26, 2011 at 1:32 pm #

    Btw, Zen was the religion of the Samurai Class in Japan. Some Zen Masters have come out against this as perversion of Zen.
    ————————————-
    …and some people just think Zen was an attempt to calm the samurai down.
    Ordered my first iaito last week.
    http://www.swordsofmight.com/tori-iaito-sword-with-27-inch-blade.aspx

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  771. Dasviking November 26, 2011 at 1:40 pm #

    Asoka and others..If you read the letter written by Pontius Pilot to Tiberius Caesar…It describes Jesus as having a fair complexion and golden colored beard and hair almost celestial compared to the tawny complexions and black beards of the people he was preaching to…..Also, the original of this letter is in the library of Rome… And a authenticated copy is in the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C…..Give it a look see if you have time

  772. Qshtik November 26, 2011 at 1:54 pm #

    OWS is just the first warning shot over the bough.
    =============
    shot across the bow.

  773. messianicdruid November 26, 2011 at 2:42 pm #

    Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.— Daniel Webster

  774. CaptSpaulding November 26, 2011 at 3:14 pm #

    Hi wsp7. I agree with you about peak oil, but I think that almost all of our problems are linked. It seems to me that excessive population drives many of the problems we face, from peak oil to pollution, to energy demand (greenhouse effect), and many others. If the population was reduced by 50% or so, much of the pressure on world resources would be lessened. Just my humble opinion.

  775. rippedthunder November 26, 2011 at 3:40 pm #

    Perhaps E’s scope was off and he overshot the branch. It happens. Coupla’ clicks lower and he will find the mark!

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  776. rippedthunder November 26, 2011 at 3:54 pm #

    Hello Wage . maybe you heve seen these before’
    You Might Be An Emergency Room (ER) Nurse If . . .
    1. You believe that “too stupid to live” should be a diagnosis…
    2. You say to yourself “great veins” when looking at complete strangers …
    3. You believe that the government should require a permit to reproduce…
    4. You can identify the positive teeth to tattoo ratio…
    5.Your most common assessment question is “what changed, — tonight ,to make it an emergency after 6 (hours, days, weeks, months, years)?”…
    6. You have a special shrine in your home to the inventor of Haldol…
    Man I am bored!

  777. progress2conserve November 26, 2011 at 4:29 pm #

    Man I am bored! – RT
    Well, RT, if you’re bored, you must be at work.
    And if you’re bored and working your job – that’s a good thing, in that mayhem must be at a minimum on the highways and byways of your corner of New England.
    And, yeah – you beat me to it; I was thinking myself that E must have been shooting over a bough in the woods instead of a bow on the open ocean.
    ==============
    Speaking of interesting weapons choices – Q, your son carries a HOE into situations where violence is a possibility? A hoe??
    Hoe’s are not generally noted for their robust characteristics as weapons. Now, some ho’s have robust qualities, but that’s another, and more colloquial question.
    ho, hoe, whore – and all that – you know?
    I’m reminded of the character in Moby Dick – who intended to head inland with an oar on his shoulder and not stop walking until some landlubber inquired what the purpose of that thing on his shoulder was.
    So perhaps – your son heads out of the suburban wilds and into the city, carrying a hoe – and only stops when someone stops him to ask what the purpose of his hoe is.
    At which point your kid breaks the hoe handle over the perpetrator’s head – and heads back out to the suburbs, leaving a bruised, and much wiser, noggin in his wake.
    I’ve been chuckling at the possibilities since I read your “hoe story,” Q – so thank you for that.
    ====================
    Maybe he should try a baseball bat, from time to time, instead of a hoe. He could put a ribbon on it for Christmas, and no one in law enforcement would give him a second glance, TASE him, or pepper spray him, until at least mid-January.
    Funny stuff, somebody ought to admit.

  778. wagelaborer November 26, 2011 at 4:58 pm #

    Arteries lead from the heart. Veins lead to the heart.

  779. wagelaborer November 26, 2011 at 5:18 pm #

    Why, Ozone, I think that capitalism is the culprit, of course.
    Karl Marx analyzed the booms and busts of capitalism, complete with credit swindles, before oil was even discovered, I believe.
    Credit swindles would be the name for what Goldman Sachs is now accused of inventing.
    Sure, with modern computers, the swindle can reach unheard of heights, with less human labor (as Marx pointed out, they’re always trying to get rid of human labor), but the basic scam is the same.
    As for oil, sure, it’s displaced a lot of labor and steered the architecture of our landscape, and the particular aims of our wars in certain ways.
    But the basic structure of capitalism, with its need for continual growth, and its propensity for gambling in financial markets, when productive investment is not as profitable – that’s what caused the Great Depression of the 1930s, and the Depression we’re in now. (Formerly called busts, crashes and panics).

  780. Qshtik November 26, 2011 at 5:33 pm #

    says he has started carrying a hoe just so he’ll have something that might serve as a weapon.
    ============
    I should have said “Have you considered a Glock?”

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  781. wagelaborer November 26, 2011 at 5:43 pm #

    Yes, I went to a demonstration in January, 2003, against the forthcoming Iraqi invasion.
    At the time, the media was pretending that the attack was not being planned, that all options were on the table, that Saddam’s obstinance was the only obstacle to a resolution to the conflict, and that the conflict was a totally natural thing. Because if the US decided to demand that another country disarm, and open themselves up to outside inspection, then it should be done. This, of course, was the ruling class line.
    There were hundreds of thousands of people there, and it was cold! I was interviewed by a radio station from Australia, but US media? They ignored us.
    Again, in Sept 2005, I attended another massive rally in Wash., DC.
    I was standing next to a guy from New York City, who was on his cellphone talking to some VERY irate friends at the New York Amtrak station, stuck in New York.
    Seems that Amtrak canceled all trains to Wash, DC that day. Track maintenance, you understand.
    And yet, the Washington Post reported the next day that there were 100,000 more people commuting to Washington from New York that day than usual. This was in an article about something else, of course.
    The metro section was the only coverage of the demo. Since it was in their city, I guess. They said there were about 100,000 people at the demo.
    Really? When 100,000 more traveled that day just on public transit, just from NYC?
    I came with 40 people on a bus from Illinois. I met people from all over the country. And yet the entire march, which took 5 hours to complete, was just 100,000 people?
    And the New York Times, and the TV stations didn’t cover it at all.
    It was funny a few weeks ago. There was an Occupy meeting in my small town, and my daughter and I counted the participants. We counted 40, although there may have been some we missed, as it was getting dark.
    The next day, the local paper reported that 20 people were there. Really?
    It’s hard to count over 100,000, but counting to 40 shouldn’t really be all that difficult for a trained reporter, you would think.

  782. wagelaborer November 26, 2011 at 5:45 pm #

    By the way, as the President and the media pretended that there was no attack planned, two of my co-workers were already sitting in Kuwait, waiting for what wasn’t going to happen.

  783. ozone November 26, 2011 at 5:51 pm #

    Why yes, that too. ;o)
    Still, if you narrow all human trade interactions to their headwaters (nooooo, not the hydrocephalic syndrome; river-like) it is always quantified in ENERGY, even if represented by other items. All paradigms in that arena are based on it (or the lack thereof).
    What’s “work” worth, and how does it get done? Foot-pounds, kilowatts, BTU’s; whaddaya got?

  784. wagelaborer November 26, 2011 at 5:57 pm #

    That’s right, ripped. Except for number three, of course.
    As a good leftist, when someone brings that one up, I say that we should instead pay for voluntary sterilization.
    And I love Vitamin H, but lately we’ve switched to Geodon. Don’t know why, but don’t care. It works.
    And my favorite what-brings-you-here question, was when I asked someone when their problem started, and he said “I was born with this”. And then proceeded to start giving me the history since that day! And he was in his 50s.

  785. ozone November 26, 2011 at 5:58 pm #

    Ps.
    Not enough energy (of any kind you want to name)? Then, not enough food. Not enough food? Your progeny will not survive. Your progeny don’t survive? Population crash. Population crash? Less energy use. Less energy use? Careful, or extinct peeples.
    Rinse and repeat; the Earth don’t care.

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  786. wagelaborer November 26, 2011 at 6:11 pm #

    Ha, ha. I usually ignore my idiot tea party Facebook friend, but he just posted this-
    “This person no longer wastes time debating with imbiciles who actually believe that more government is the answer to our problems.”
    I went all Q on him and pointed out that people who can’t spell imbecile shouldn’t attack other people’s intelligence.
    So I was accused of being OCD. lol

  787. wagelaborer November 26, 2011 at 6:15 pm #

    Well, there are still people around who know how to hunt and gather.
    They are rapidly being killed, but if any of them survive, they can repopulate the Earth.
    With Vlad’s help, of course.
    He just needs to make his way to the Amazon, or the Congo, or Papau New Guinea.
    Given his big white brain, that shouldn’t be a problem.

  788. ABSALOM November 26, 2011 at 6:44 pm #

    Eleuthero,
    A few more characters you might find interesting here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36HquPzdxf4&feature=related
    These are the type of against the grain voices and ideas that don’t really get much attention in public discourse, similar to Fresco. This is a clip taken from Peter Joseph’s Zeitgeist: Moving Forward 2011. An over 2 hour long film if you care to check it out. Feel free to weigh in!
    P.S.
    If I can ask, someone earlier remarked about a supposed comment you made about blacks never passing any of your computer programming courses, which seemed out of step with what I’ve read from you directly; what was that all about?
    ABSALOM

  789. anti soak November 26, 2011 at 6:47 pm #

    ‘They are rapidly being killed, but if any of them survive, they can repopulate the Earth.’
    ??????
    ‘if they survive’ Survive WHAT?
    ‘Repopulate’? You mean after the die off theyll
    be lotsa Bison to hunt?

  790. ozone November 26, 2011 at 6:54 pm #

    Haw! Good ‘un. (What a picture that paints.)
    Hey, as an aside, Mr. McGovern is finally getting it. You kill a lot more flies with derision than sober, low-simmer commentary.
    Here we go! Uh-oh!
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29821.htm

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  791. ozone November 26, 2011 at 7:00 pm #

    Thanks for the link. Got’s to go, but I’ll check it soonish.

  792. ABSALOM November 26, 2011 at 7:03 pm #

    For all the impotent trolls who constantly espouse racial predilection.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrCVu25wQ5s
    Be prepared to burn your mantras.

  793. ak November 26, 2011 at 7:09 pm #

    Q, ‘less than’ < or <
    (& lt semicolon     or & # 60 semicolon, no spaces)
    HTML Entities
    -AK

  794. DeeJones November 26, 2011 at 7:42 pm #

    “”Klaatu barada nikto?”

  795. DeeJones November 26, 2011 at 7:52 pm #

    “That said, I agree with E. in that there was not enough protests to draw attention to the anti-war movement that took place at the time of the Iraqi invasion.”
    There were enough protests, they just didn’t count because democracy is dead, and the war was already to go. The protests were also either totally ignored or downplayed buy the corporate media.
    Like has been mentioned, hundreds of thousands of protesters took to the streets, but were all but ignored because the plan to go to war was already a done deal.
    Instead the media under-counted the protests, and also focused on the “‘Sport the Troops” few dozen that showed up, ESPECIALLY faux news.
    So what chance does the OW movement have? Probably none really. Like i said, democracy is dead in the US, u just haven’t realized it yet.
    :[

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  796. maomaomao1 November 26, 2011 at 8:00 pm #

    ?????????????????????????•????????????????????††?????†††????†††††?????????•?????????›??????????????›?????????????†††????††††???††††††????????????????????????›???????????††††????†?????????????????????•???????•???????????•??????????›?????????›?????????††?????†††????†††????††???????????????????????????????????????????•???????????????????????????†?????††††???††††††?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????•???????†††††?????????›??????????††††††????????†††††?????????????????????????????†††††???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????‰??‰????????????????‰??‰????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????††††††???????????†††????††???????????????????????????›????????????›??????????????????????????????????????›????????????????????›????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????•?????????›???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????•?????????›??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????•?????????›?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????????????????›????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????????????????›????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????•?????????›??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????•?????????›????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????•?????????›?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????????????????›?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????????????????›?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????????????????›????????????????
    ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????•?????????›?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????•?????????›??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????????????????›????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????????????????›?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????????????????›??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????????????????›????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????????????????›???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????????????????›???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›??????????????????????????????????????????•????????›??????????????????????????????›????????›????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????›???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????›?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›??????????????????????????????????????????›????????????????????›???????????????????????•????????›?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????????????????›????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????›????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????›????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????›??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????›?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????•????????›??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????????????????›??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????›??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????????????????›?????????????????????????????•????????›????????????????
    ??????????•?????????????????????????›????????›??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????›?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????•????????›??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????•?????????????????????????›????????›?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????•????????›????????????????????????????????????›????????›??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????›?????????????????????????????????????????????????????›????????›???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????•????????›??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

  797. Vlad Krandz November 26, 2011 at 8:12 pm #

    Here’s a good article on the pitfalls of rock and roll singing. To make themselves heard over the amped up sound, singers have to bellow or go too high. Also fads and commercial pressures enter in as well. Countless singers become raspers and gravelers. Careful – we don’t want you to become another Little Richard either.
    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011/11/the-white-singing-voice-in-rock-and-pop/

  798. Vlad Krandz November 26, 2011 at 8:16 pm #

    Ah you want to be the Lord of the Manor as per the “Witch of Hebron”. I thought as much. Scratch a Commie find a Tartar! I will meet you with my Claymore.

  799. Vlad Krandz November 26, 2011 at 8:25 pm #

    Truly a beautiful image. The people of Galilee were fair with many having Celtic blood. Perhaps Aryan Nations are correct after all. I know what I hope is true but I’ll reserve judgement for now.

  800. Vlad Krandz November 26, 2011 at 8:46 pm #

    Whoa, whatever happend to Feminism setting both Women and Men free!? Both in terms of economic and gender roles? Could it be that women weren’t serious? That their evolutionary hypergamy was “a little” too strong for their ideals? Do women ever inwardly struggle or do they just make it all up as they go along?
    And now after millions of men have been thrown out of their own homes, alienated from their children, falsely accused of rape, mocked endlessly in the media and academia, they are begining to wake up. For women who couldn’t find a rich husband, the State became their husband. Not only for welfare women, but also old yuppie maids. But now with men waking up and the economy going down, women are begining to get nervous. “We didn’t mean all those mean things we said about you. We just want good husbands”. Sure you do. Yeah, things will go back to normal – all the way back. On our terms.
    What Feminists have said is on record and cannot be taken back or misonstrued. On the off chance you are sincere, you can look it up. Dworkin, Brownmiller, Morgan – the list of gorgons and sphinxes who believe all men are rapists and all intercourse rape. These people should have been mocked to scorn but were instead held up in the highest regard at the greatest Universities in the Land. The Great Foundations bestow their money on University Departments who do their bidding. Everyone else fall in line and get in line. Women could have said Hell No at any point, but Conformist as ever, they know which side their bread is buttered on. And so the deed was done. Now enjoy the bitter fruit. There will be food whores in the near future. Or do you believe women are too good for such things? How very, very little you know.
    Why didn’t the women row back and save the men in the water after the Titanic sank – the men who had given up their places for them? Strangely, no woman here wants to talk about this…in fact no woman anywhere wants to talk about it. Emergency reveals character. And the character of the upper class Anglo-American Women was thus revealed. What followed later in the century was probably inevitable by that point.

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  801. Buck Stud November 26, 2011 at 9:04 pm #

    Speaking of political movements, the Tea Party fizzled out in a hurry. Pearce is gone in Arizona and more and more it looks like President Obama will be re-elected in a landslide. The GOP simply doesn’t have a viable candidate, and the rise of the OWS movement is very bad timing for Romney with his past Bain Capital ties.
    Further revealing GOP desperation is the the call for Supreme Court Justice Kagan to excuse herself from the health-care mandate case. (Although not a slam dunk, the mandate will be found constitutional from what I’ve read.)
    What I find curious is why Ron Paul doesn’t run as an independent? He doesn’t get much respect from the party establishment and he would be more of a power broker on his own.

  802. rippedthunder November 26, 2011 at 9:05 pm #

    Hi Wage, just a quick shout out. Do you guys have a valium shortage in the mid-west? We can’t re- stock here. We are using ativan. Why would there be a shortage? This stuff is so old school. Personally, I love the stuff. Calms my heart!

  803. rippedthunder November 26, 2011 at 9:12 pm #

    just a link, I believe that as things unwind during the “Long Emergency” this shit will be more common. Diazapam no biggie, but what if insulin runs short? Yikes!
    http://www.emtcity.com/topic/20911-national-shortage-of-valium/

  804. rippedthunder November 26, 2011 at 9:18 pm #

    Yea right

  805. rippedthunder November 26, 2011 at 9:26 pm #

    Hi again Wage, I believe Vlad’s brain is not white but sort of a dull shit grey color just like mine. It probably smells funny also.I figure it would be steaming if ya opened up his noggin’ on a cold night like tonight. Just sayin’. I really am a sick sumabitch!

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  806. ctemple November 26, 2011 at 9:31 pm #

    I will try to respond to you, even though we don’t seem to speak the same language.
    What I meant was things like quotas, affirmative action, busing, unlimted immigration from south of the border. Who’s is hurt by this, lower class white people. Who gave is this, liberal do gooders, who think that people like my class are good for only fighting a fucking war. Here, pay your taxes and go off and be patriotic.
    There were other nice things that lefists ninnies gave us, like pornography is free speech, prayer in the schools in forbidden. Or we can’t celebrate Christmas in public school because it might affend some minority group or some Goddamn atheist.
    And who is always worried about offending some petty minority group? Leftists.
    Who stands around worrying about cop killers and trying to get the motherfuckers off, liberals.
    Do they stand around moaning and pissing about the victims of crime, I sure never see it.
    Most leftists don’t (I my opiniion), give a fuck about ordinary white people, they are just there for them to feel superior to.

  807. Vlad Krandz November 26, 2011 at 9:39 pm #

    The irony is apalling. For decades now Australia has derided its European roots and gleefully refered to itself as an “Asian Nation”. To back this up, they have opened their gates to millions of Asian and Muslim immigrants. But now as the Dragon looks their way, they shiver in fear and bring in American Troops to protect them. What were they ever thinking? What was anybody? That old 19 century clergyman was right when he said, “Let the Dragon sleep”. But no, we had to provoke it. And still, still after giving them our technology and them stealing our military secrets (with some very high level Democrat Party help), we still intend to protect Taiwan from them. Utter madness.
    And of course the highpoint of Nixon’s Presidency, “the opening up of China”. Sure they opened – to swallow us whole. America was opened -and raped.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2066380/Will-World-War-III-U-S-China.html?ITO=1490

  808. Buck Stud November 26, 2011 at 10:08 pm #

    But every rattlesnake fears the bull snake being let loose and China’s bull snake is Japan. Why didn’t you mention this?

  809. rippedthunder November 26, 2011 at 10:10 pm #

    “There’s danger on the edge of town”

  810. rippedthunder November 26, 2011 at 10:12 pm #

    The blue bus is callin’ us
    Driver, where you taken’ us

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  811. dqosnbcia November 26, 2011 at 10:41 pm #

  812. wagelaborer November 26, 2011 at 11:35 pm #

    Well, I don’t know.
    We use ativan also. I never wondered why.
    But!! After the US invaded Afghanistan, I noticed that we switched from demerol to morphine. Instantly.
    I still think that that was because the US wanted a market for the opium.
    I gave demerol for years and never saw a seizure.
    Not like thorazine or compazine. To which I saw plenty of reactions!
    But all of a sudden, demerol causes seizures?
    Yeah, right.

  813. wagelaborer November 26, 2011 at 11:53 pm #

    Hey, ctemple. Quotas, affirmative action, immigration and busing are not liberal do-gooder ideas.
    And the idea that “lower” class people (working class people who are paid less than others) are only good for paying taxes and fighting wars?
    How can you believe that people who don’t support wars and want a progressive income tax at the same time want lower paid people to fight the wars they are against and pay the taxes they think should be paid by the rich?
    It doesn’t make sense!
    Leftists believe that the work that needs to be done should be shared by all workers. No quotas, no affirmative action. Quotas and affirmative action are ways to preserve the status quo. To divide the work between only some people and not others. To pick and choose between the ones allowed to work and those who are left jobless. Leftists believe that EVERYONE capable of working should work. If everyone works, everyone works less.
    Busing? Hello? Children should not be on buses at all! They should walk to community schools. Where do you get this nonsense?
    Immigration, as I’ve said numerous times, is a way to get cheap labor into the US to undermine wages. Same as it ever was.
    I’m not sure what you mean by petty minority groups. If you mean that only white people deserve work, rights and privileges, I disagree. Why would you think that?
    Getting copkillers off? Where did that come from?
    There are many more Americans killed by cops than there are cops killed by Americans. I would think that you would be equally concerned about that.
    As bizarre as I seem to you, I can assure you that I am an ordinary American. I just don’t believe that the interests of the 1% are the same as the interests of the 99%.
    I stand with the 99%, the working class.

  814. wagelaborer November 26, 2011 at 11:56 pm #

    Versed for seizures?
    I have NEVER heard of that!
    That was an interesting link.
    And I think it’s very strange that there is a shortage of valium.

  815. anti soak November 27, 2011 at 12:02 am #

    At the Prom in NJ Melissa Drexler gave birth and threw the male infant into the trash, killing him.
    Kate Mitchelman wrote a piece for the LA Times saying [I quote]
    ‘IT ALMOST DOESNT MATTER IF THE BABY WAS ALIVE WHEN SHE LEFT HIM IN THE TRASH’
    Fmr. NARAL Head Kate Michelman on Alito and … – Democracy Now!
    http://www.democracynow.org/2006/…/fmr_naral_head_kate_michelman_...
    Jan 9, 2006 – We go now to Washington, D.C., to speak with Kate Michelman. She is the former head of NARAL, which is the National Abortion and

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  816. anti soak November 27, 2011 at 12:03 am #

    ‘Immigration, as I’ve said numerous times, is a way to get cheap labor into the US to undermine wages. Same as it ever was.’
    Nonsense, the Immigration Act of 1965 changed much.

  817. asoka. November 27, 2011 at 12:37 am #

    Absalom,
    From a post made by Eleutero on June 10, 2010:

    However, no one bothers to call Blacks
    and Hispanics on their OPEN hatred of
    people of other races. It’s like it’s
    officially okay for “people of color”
    to be racists. Like you, I’m an educator but I’m in a science and in twenty-one years in a
    public institution I’ve had maybe a
    TOTAL of 20 “people of color” out of
    around 8000 students. And of those
    only TWO “A” grades. That’s because
    in the Black and Hispanic communities
    education is considered “giving in to
    da man”. So, by definition, their own
    races think of them as “Uncle Toms” from
    the get-go.

  818. Vlad Krandz November 27, 2011 at 1:10 am #

    What the hell are you talking about? Do you not fear the feather scale with which Osiris will judge your heart? I try open my heart to the Jews and you refuse to post the website. For want of a nail the battle is lost. That may have been the feather that ends the World. Or the feather that damns you for an Aeon or two.

  819. anti soak November 27, 2011 at 1:57 am #

    I listened to a little of it, I am not convinced his opinion is anything more than that.

  820. asoka. November 27, 2011 at 3:18 am #

    George Carlin on “saving the planet”

    http://www.oshonews.com/2011/10/saving-the-planet/
    This video is being promoted by Osho News.

    If we can make more people lovable, celebrating, more spontaneous, the global crisis can be avoided. But don’t take it seriously, be playful about it. If existence wants this planet not to exist, who are we to prevent it?
    Every day stars disappear into black holes and every day new stars are born from white holes. One thing has to be remembered, that anything that is born is going to die. This planet has been here for nearabout four thousand million years. Perhaps it has become old, perhaps nothing can be done to save it. It needs rest, and death is a rest.
    But I’m not saying that you should work to destroy, I am saying that, while things are alive, enjoy, dance, sing, love. — Osho, Hari Om Tat Sat, Chapter 12.

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  821. ABSALOM November 27, 2011 at 4:04 am #

    Well, thanks for digging up the remark. I’m pleased to see that there is NOTHING inherently racist about it.

  822. ABSALOM November 27, 2011 at 4:12 am #

    Based on what? Do you have years of extensive field experience and data to support your conclusions, or are you just another computer chair professor with a contrary opinion?
    If you have a reasonable counter view, share it.

  823. 8man November 27, 2011 at 4:20 am #

    Just for the record, another aspect of the Economic Growth Myth and Model is like “lets pretend we are getting rich”, slaves to numbers, slaves to a numerator and denominator, Debt / GDP, statistics, make the numbers look good, lets manipulate the numbers, and future growth. But you can do all kinds of tricks with the numbers to make them look good, a lot of the USA growth is simply through increase in population, about 3 million more people every year and this makes the GDP “grow” and “look like” the USA is “getting richer”: obviously, nothing further from the truth, they are just numbers, don’t reflect the possibility and potential of future real “exchanges”, the only thing that really counts.
    And another deep limit to growth is that all the circuits are getting saturated (somewhat related to some resource scarcities), you can only sell so many iphones and ipads since the mobile phone internet network gets saturated and slows to a halt, same with malls and traffic, long lines at black friday, if the lines were shorter more exchanges could have been made, same in airports and flights, crowds, saturated circuits, etc. But the USA has a huge advantage since they have space and can freely build big box stores, malls, highways, and so on, and they did, although these “investments” are slowing down: but JAPAN, South Korea, Spain, Italy, France etc. are all puny, crowded, even if they would like to grow more they have small houses so they can’t fill them up with stuff (what they should do, the USA has much larger, albeit cheaper built houses), fewer big box stores, traffic, puny roads and clogged traffic, crowds, small spaces, etc. And even Germany and Northern Europe are greeny, they like the “environment”, they don’t want to consume and buy like crazy, build highways and skyscprapers and McMansions like crazy, big malls, ever more exchanges and such, so in these puny economies, they can’t grow even if they wanted to, all of their circuits are saturated, they should be building and consuming like crazy, but all they want to do is “export” (mostly to the USA, the only real consumer worldwide and just to turn around and say “oh look how bad the USA is they are so materialistic and consumerist”, but they like the cash they get by selling crap to the USA, such turds!) and get the cash and such. What turds, and then they say they “can’t grow enough”, to “pay back the debts” ! Well, build and build and consume and consume jackasses!
    Now, reply with the one liner, protect Nature (what cocks, Nature is there to be manipulated and used for our needs)…
    TOBOR AN APE MAN

  824. 8man November 27, 2011 at 4:22 am #

    That was from:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=177391
    Read all of nameta9’s posts and old6598’s posts, all of them, study them all very carefully, learn the truth…

  825. asoka. November 27, 2011 at 4:40 am #

    Absalom, E. taught in the Calif. community college system. Students are not required to attend a community college, they are there voluntarily.
    So when E. says (in a sweeping racial generalization) that Blacks do not value education because it is from “da man,” that does seem racist to me.
    Obviously there are many Blacks who choose to continue in higher education because they value education, and they do well.

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  826. Eleuthero November 27, 2011 at 4:58 am #

    Asoka said:
    You once said on CFN that, in your decades of teaching computer programming, not one Black student had ever graduated from your class. I now appreciate that statement, and I am happy that you are now retired from teaching.
    ***************************************************************
    These statements show your sly, evil disregard for reporting EXACTLY what people said. I *never* said that NOT ONE Black student had ever graduated from my classes. What I did say was that there were ASTONISHINGLY few. What you also never investigated before trying to assassinate my character is how many got degrees/certificates from MY ENTIRE DEPARTMENT … which is an alarmingly small number because the REPRESENTATIVES of the Black community, with notable exceptions like Cosby and Connerly, do not try to dispel the idea that getting educated is NOT “giving in to the man”.
    Finally, your quote of 58% of participation in the workforce from the 1960s is just STUPID because any member of this Forum over age 50 knows that it was in the 1970s that women entered the workforce EN MASSE. It’s just another disingenuous attempt to take a truism out of context whereupon it becomes a FALSEHOOD which you use to attempt to feed your nutty, data-free optimism. What’s germane is that the current 64.2% (not 64.3% as I reported, a small oversight) is a TWENTY-SEVEN YEAR LOW.
    When this participation rate is combined with a real earnings fall of 2.2% (also from BLS) in ONE YEAR, you start to get a serious lack of spending power, especially since people are so fearful for their jobs that our savings rate is at multi-decade highs. If you talk to people “on the ground” you know that a large number of salaried people, especially in TECH, are working in ABUSIVE working conditions (work 70 hour weeks OR ELSE, for example) because getting laid off now might be the END OF YOUR CAREER if you’re over 45.
    Asoka, you have no respect for truth and this is the one constant which makes me generally IGNORE your self-promoting gibberish. Sometimes, however, you just get so EVIL that you must be reprimanded.
    E.

  827. Eleuthero November 27, 2011 at 5:04 am #

    Asoka said:
    So when E. says (in a sweeping racial generalization) that Blacks do not value education because it is from “da man,” that does seem racist to me.
    Obviously there are many Blacks who choose to continue in higher education because they value education, and they do well.
    *************************************************************
    You only further the mythos that DATA QUOTES make people “racist”. If I give you stark rates of graduation from high schools and colleges, crime rates, and the like … if they do not exalt the Black community I must be “racist”.
    As long as Black people LIKE YOU think this way, racism will thrive. And it thrives as much among Blacks, Hispanics, and Chinese as it does among Whites. Racism … is the HISTORY OF THE HUMAN RACE and there are not 100 white liberals who can even deal with the DUPLICITY of their own lifestyles vis-a-vis the inclusion of PEOPLE OF COLOR.
    I have actually ADMITTED being a racist yet, paradoxically, unlike most self-preening hypocrites, I have a LARGE number of people of color involved in my social life. So, you just keep going on about how “oppressed” you are. What’s next, an ode to Marion Barry? 🙂
    E.

  828. tegmark November 27, 2011 at 5:34 am #

    First GDP was just a reflection of an Economic Situation, was just an idea: then it itself became the goal, it substituted the importance of the economy with the importance of a number. The measurement became the subject, that which what was being measured became the excuse: the measurement became the goal. But this is because our mind can associate anything with anything, can invent any cause and effect, any relationship it wants and make it become real. It can relate any random item with any other, etc.
    Another point regarding saturated circuits is also related to the often difficulty of actually “spending money”,of reaching goals with the money you got, of extracting value, like companies that say they have openings but can’t find the right people (of course this remains to be really verified…), or you got the cash but can’t find the right thing to buy or the thing you want to buy (is happening more and more, unless you risk buying from the internet), or the greens blocking your new Atom Energy plant or high speed rail or skyscraper and such etc. As with companies having billions and just sitting on them or buying other companies since they don’t know what to do with the cash anymore.
    Anyways, Europe sucks, should become like the USA, one monolithic cultural system, instead they all want to keep their crappy traditions, each one wants to be special, what turds: there is way more in common between a German and a random American and an Italian and a random American then between a German and Italian. In fact the USA is a standardized culture and system, it is tuned for consumerism, for the future, for going forward, Europe is a puny shit hole tuned into their crappy local traditions, what turds. They should become a state of the USA and get those big box stores, highways, and all the rest.
    And then Europe would be in much better shape and richer if the UK, Norway, Sweden and all the others just grouped together in one country (instead of them all wanting to be “special”, the UK doesn’t want the EURO and such huge crappy ideas), exactly like the USA, with one currency, government etc. then they wouldn’t be in the shit hole they are now. Craps and turds, they should be merged into China or the USA…

  829. ableson4658q November 27, 2011 at 6:02 am #

    Carp are generally a kind of freshwater fish indigenous to most of Asia and European countries. It’s always every anglers wish to find their own Large CARP. They are widely known as coarse fishes, and not just fished for food but sport. Izaak Walton, a well known carp angler detailed them as “the queen of the rivers, a stately, a good, and a very subtle fish…” , this is certainly one reason why a number of anglers choose and like carp to become their future catch. So how could they do it? How would you get that large carp?

    If you don’t have learned to take action, open a book and focus,0aUHats is starting to applicable occasionskan, surely you will have sufficient understanding when you are finished reading. Simillar to any sports activity, beginners and rookies should try to learn from seasoned anglers. The knowledge and tactics gained through many years of carp fishing will surely be a advantage when you go out fishing. Yet how can you have the knowledge? How can you discover their tricks? Sure, read a book, read a good carp fishing book.

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  830. Eleuthero November 27, 2011 at 6:24 am #

    Tegmark said:
    Europe is a puny shit hole tuned into their crappy local traditions, what turds. They should become a state of the USA and get those big box stores, highways, and all the rest.
    ***************************************************************
    Duh, right. That’s why virtually ALL of these “puny shitholes”, even places like Spain, have a higher longevity and lower infant mortality rate than us “correct” Americans. You are out of your goddamned mind and sound like the whole lot of the Republikook radio and TV guys. There have been innumerable studies on total lifestyle, happiness of citizens, etc. and the USA is *never* close to the “shitholes” you cite.
    It’s not 1975 any more, dude. The USA is a failed empire that doesn’t even know how far it’s fallen because it’s so full of itself.
    E.

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  831. budizwiser November 27, 2011 at 8:51 am #

    As I said before, our “Supercommittee” is the same thing as the removal of Papandreou and Berlesconi.
    They dropped all remaining pretense of elected officials governing in our names, and replaced them with 12 banking stooges. Just because the rest of Congress was left in their offices doesn’t mean it wasn’t an economic coup.

    Wow, glad to see somebody mentioning the activities worth mentioning. Carry on, I’ll have to check in more often – now if we can get to that other boring stuff – you know the rest of skullduggery of the political parties’ wonks.
    Carry on.

  832. metuselah November 27, 2011 at 9:58 am #

    Anyways, Europe sucks, should become like the USA, one monolithic cultural system
    ==
    It’s idiots like you that are the cause of all evil in the world. It’s idiots like you that have ALWAYS been the cause of all evil in world.
    You fucking imperialists never learn. You never learn from history and you never learn from nature. You need to be locked up in a monotone room, where you can practice your idiot ways for the rest of your lives.

  833. lbendet November 27, 2011 at 10:11 am #

    There’s no question that the concept of a mixed economy makes more sense and benefits more people. The US was supposed to server the majority, now it serves the top 10% only and the top .5% the most. Everyone can just suffer silently, please. Don’t ruffle the feathers of the elite, thank yo very much.
    In Europe after the Marshall Plan they continued with the ideas set forth by us, but that we failed to follow for ourselves because of the reactionaries in the Repug party.
    Now that we have a global economy, we the US are trying to insist on privatization the world over including Canada and Europe. We are trying to influence the elite that they should not have a public health care system.–they can’t stand anything but privatization.
    Certainly, our neoliberal leadership doesn’t want to hear another word about single payer options and would love to point out the failure, that we created in their system as a reason why it doesn’t work.
    Just like the Post Office laws that the Repugs wrote into law to destroy a public postal system, just like the anti bankruptsy laws put into place by them during W’s term, it feels like another set-up.

  834. 8man November 27, 2011 at 10:53 am #

    From:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=177391
    Status Quo Protector says, about the economy:
    “Rants about decreasing rent, as if the present cost of rent is arbitrary, as if certain peoples’ livelihoods don’t actually depend on people paying the rent they currently pay. ”
    “It’s a very complex machine, and all of the parts of it are very tightly integrated. You cannot interfere with one part of the machine without causing a chain reaction throughout the rest of the machine. It’s naive to think YOU, of all people, have figured out how to control the machine. ”
    NO. In fact it is very simple, a one transistor circuit, A against B, A versus B, end of story, one will power against another, 1 against 0, which bit wins, who wins, that is all, a simple action reaction. So either you want to build skyscrapers, the governments hire millions upon millions, even to just do nothing at all but to simply give them a salary so they can consume and buy more and more (we need trillions of Cadillacs and highways, rockets, split the Sun, energy, you name it, do it, go for it, you can do it man!) or you want to maintain the present punishment mode system, all against the workers and free lunches the economic system generates automatically, all against the future and progress, all tied to the past and traditions and such huge crap instead of a one world monolithic block conquering the future and going to Mars and such, etc.
    And, by the way, rents are arbitrarily set, they should be free, houses should be given away free as they are a standard technology, a commodity, instead people want to use this basic need to squeeze cash out of the weaker social classes. Cash is used as a weapon, property is used as a weapon.
    From:
    http://kunstler.com/blog/2011/11/the-blue-bus-is-calling-us.html
    other right Wing Thugs says:
    “Tegmark said:
    Europe is a puny shit hole tuned into their crappy local traditions, what turds. They should become a state of the USA and get those big box stores, highways, and all the rest.
    ***************************************************************
    Duh, right. That’s why virtually ALL of these “puny shitholes”, even places like Spain, have a higher longevity and lower infant mortality rate than us “correct” Americans. You are out of your goddamned mind and sound like the whole lot of the Republikook radio and TV guys. There have been innumerable studies on total lifestyle, happiness of citizens, etc. and the USA is *never* close to the “shitholes” you cite.
    It’s not 1975 any more, dude. The USA is a failed empire that doesn’t even know how far it’s fallen because it’s so full of itself.”
    “Anyways, Europe sucks, should become like the USA, one monolithic cultural system
    ==
    It’s idiots like you that are the cause of all evil in the world. It’s idiots like you that have ALWAYS been the cause of all evil in world.
    You fucking imperialists never learn. You never learn from history and you never learn from nature. You need to be locked up in a monotone room, where you can practice your idiot ways for the rest of your lives.”
    I am not an imperialist, I am for a one world government that dictates what Man must do and namely go to Mars, build trillions of skyscrapers and highways, do and build and split the Sun jackasses.

  835. asoka. November 27, 2011 at 11:44 am #

    E said:

    …REPRESENTATIVES of the Black community, with notable exceptions like Cosby and Connerly, do not try to dispel the idea that getting educated is NOT “giving in to the man”.

    Wow. You just don’t know when to stop, do you E.?
    You just ignore, in one fell swoop, the decades-long work of Black organizations and Black leaders to promote educational achievement. Ever hear of the Campaign for African American Achievement or the Thurgood Marshall Achievers Society, promoted by the National Urban League?
    Ever hear the phrase: “A mind is a terrible thing to waste?” You think white folks came up with that to help out the education of Blacks?
    No, not the white folks. Many of them jeered and tried to make the slogan the butt of jokes.
    The United Negro College Fund, AND BLACK COMMUNITY REPRESENTATIVES who publicly and vociferously supported the UNCF, successfully led a campaign that has put more than 350,000 African-American kids through college.
    I thank you, E., for admitting again on CFN that you are a racist.
    I will further thank you, if you stop stating falsehoods about Black educational efforts and Black community leaders.

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  836. Buck Stud November 27, 2011 at 11:55 am #

    I am pretty sure a potential interlocutor would say what the hell are both of us yapping about. All I was saying is how can you mention China in the context of militarism without mentioning, in this instance,the scale of historical balance, Japan.
    And speaking of balance you would do well to start respecting and treasuring that which you consistently lament and deride. You’re on the edge Vlad, the fringe periphery of society if you will. The only thing that keeps your world from flipping over and leaving you all alone with nothing but your own considerable laments and resentments is those that you lament and resent: Minorities, gays, liberals, feminists, Jews, Muslims. In other words, those that stand opposite from you.
    Embrace the paradox; it’s the balance that keeps you vertical.

  837. anti soak November 27, 2011 at 12:00 pm #

    PHD / PROFESSOR JULIAN SIMON IS DEAD SO HE CAN NO LONGER ‘PULL AN ASOKA ON US’:
    Simon argues in favour of immigration.
    He says, “Opponents of immigration seek to persuade us that new immigrants damage society economically, politically, and culturally.
    Immigration restrictions are intended to “protect us” in the same way as tariffs and trade quotas. But like trade barriers, immigration restrictions largely protect us from benefits.”
    He reminds us of the tragedy of the now defunct Berlin Wall where so many lost their lives trying to escape from tyranny at home. And in his characteristic fashion he says, “This should remind us how wonderful it is that people want to come here

  838. anti soak November 27, 2011 at 12:02 pm #

    Of what use is a degree in Ethnic or Black studies?

  839. anti soak November 27, 2011 at 12:05 pm #

    ‘it’s fallen because it’s so full of itself.’
    No, Now we are so fulla Immigrants..
    The population has increased 50% since the era
    [1970s] that you cite.

  840. Qshtik November 27, 2011 at 12:26 pm #

    Of what use is a degree in Ethnic or Black studies?
    ===============
    In the same manner that a degree in “Women’s Studies” (which my own daughter possesses) will help one travel the underground transit system of NYC, a degree in Ethnic or Black studies, when combined with two bucks, will get you a ride on the subway.
    I think I have explained all this a number of times.

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  841. Buck Stud November 27, 2011 at 12:32 pm #

    ” I have actually ADMITTED being a racist yet, paradoxically, unlike most self-preening hypocrites, I have a LARGE number of people of color involved in my social life.”
    It sounds like the term “racist” is a bit limiting in this instance. I believe it was Q who raised the issue of what actually defines a racist a while back ago. Personally, I don’t think citing educational stats is inherently racist. In fact, many Latino activists have done exactly that in lamenting the deplorable high school graduation rates of Latino(a) students in Los Angeles and other areas of the California and the Southwest.

  842. Vlad Krandz November 27, 2011 at 12:43 pm #

    If all these got off these get off the see saw, White Men go up. By all means find the balance, but intra not inter; within our own group, not without. If we ever get it together, the White Women will come back as if they had never left; as if they had never betrayed us – shameless to the nth degree now and forever.
    As “Jim” says, Women are not moral creatures – in general. They do not feel guilt – they do not care about being good but only looking good. That is how to control them: through shame. And then they will monitor each other instead of just judging men for every scuffed shoe and racial slur.
    If you can’t say the word nigger in your own home now and then, who cares about the Bill of Rights, Constitution, etc. You have no rights. Freedom starts here.
    As you may have noticed, I don’t use this kind of language casually with Asoka. I try to be polite -even though tempted mightily. I even try to find common ground and good fellowship with this Black Devil.

  843. asoka. November 27, 2011 at 12:48 pm #

    anti soak asks: “Of what use is a degree in Ethnic or Black studies?”
    ===================
    Such degree programs generally involve writing assignments. Through writing assignments students learn the proper use of punctuation and capitalization.

  844. Vlad Krandz November 27, 2011 at 12:51 pm #

    It’s a koan: you’re not going to get a “good” dictionary definition that avoids thinking. The dictionary just says that it means discriminating on the basis of race. So then we have to decide whether discrimination is bad. A discriminating gentleman? One who likes good wine and know how to tell a lady from a whore? Bad? Or one doesn’t ask a telephone pole out for a date – one discriminates by putting on one’s glasses. Bad?
    So when is discrimination bad? When it is done out of hate. I discriminate out of love – putting my own people first just like Blacks, Browns, and Yellows do. But, but, but – where does that leave the Country you ask? In the toilet I say. We tried to tell you the mistake you were making but you people just shouted us down, denied us employment, physically attacked us, etc. Now deal with the fruits of your actions. First step: acknowledge you were wrong. Second: apologize and change public policy. Third: reparations to those whom you have wronged so grievously.
    Note: generic you of course.

  845. Vlad Krandz November 27, 2011 at 1:06 pm #

    What E said to you is true. When are you going to purify your own heart? You are like Scrooge – in need of an awakening, an epiphany. Read and/or watch The Christmas Carol and hope for visitation from your better angels.
    Remember, Osiris is a Black God (except when He’s green) and he will judge you to the last ha’penny on his feather scale. Pray that your heart be found pure – but work now to make it so.

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  846. ABSALOM November 27, 2011 at 1:13 pm #

    Test

  847. asoka. November 27, 2011 at 1:15 pm #

    Read and/or watch The Christmas Carol and hope for visitation from your better angels.

    I assume you are using “better angels” metaphorically? You know I do not believe in invisible beings.

    Remember, Osiris is a Black God (except when He’s green) and he will judge you to the last ha’penny on his feather scale.

    Vlad, all this “he will judge you” talk is pure dualism. You know I am a nondualist. I do not believe anybody will be judged by non-existent, hence invisible, Black or green gods.

  848. Qshtik November 27, 2011 at 1:23 pm #

    Through writing assignments students learn the proper use of punctuation and capitalization.
    ==============
    This^ sentence, directed at Anti Soak, requires either the [sarcasm On] – [sarcasm Off] signs or, at minimum, a winking smiley face 😉

  849. asoka. November 27, 2011 at 1:32 pm #

    Q, haven’t you said that you rely upon The New York Times Manual of Style and Usage : The Official Style Guide Used by the Writers and Editors of the World’s Most Authoritative Newspaper as your guide for proper usage of the English language? Has it adopted my invention of sarcasm brackets? Does it sanction the use of “winking smiley faces.”
    You jiving me, Q?
    For God’s sake, man, be consistent!
    🙂

  850. Qshtik November 27, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

    You know I do not believe in invisible beings.
    ============
    Asoka believes in spirituality but not in spirits. Go figure.

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  851. DeeJones November 27, 2011 at 1:42 pm #

    “Why didn’t the women row back and save the men in the water after the Titanic sank – the men who had given up their places for them? Strangely, no woman here wants to talk about this…in fact no woman anywhere wants to talk about it. Emergency reveals character. And the character of the upper class Anglo-American Women was thus revealed. What followed later in the century was probably inevitable by that point.”
    Um, dude, have you actually read any of the historical accounts of the Titanic sinking? Or didja just watch the movie so you could see Kates breasts?
    FYI: Each of the lifeboats was ‘Captained’ by one or more of the Titanic crew members. Not the women.
    So it was the ‘Cap’n’ that made the decisions on not to row back to try to rescue add’l persons. EVEN ignoring the cries & please by the women on the boat to row back and try to save more.
    Its all documented in the written record, altho not in the movie. But of course you can’t see any breasts in the documentation either. And Kate has a nice pair, don’t she? Probably the only breasts you ever get to see is on video, you poor, pathetic little “man”. And they for the most part probably aren’t even real.
    Now, does that answer the question?
    You know, the day you die, and the beliefs you hold pass too, the world will start to become a better place. lets hope that day is soon so the healing can begin.
    😐

  852. Buck Stud November 27, 2011 at 1:52 pm #

    Many racists see no value in multi-cultural/ethnic studies because it provides a painful view the into the historical injustice of many of their forefathers. For example, in the wake of the Mexican-American War, many whites squatted on the land of Mexicans and then made claims against this land in courts of law that were racially tilted towards whites, especially wealth whites:
    http://www.pbs.org/kpbs/theborder/history/timeline/7.html
    But certain racist imbeciles want to pretend none of this ever happened. They ask stupid questions regarding the value of this area of study or that, and all the while accounting jobs and many medical jobs are being outsourced.
    What went around is coming around…much to the chagrin of flat earth racists who delete “cause” from their continual rants against effect.

  853. Eleuthero November 27, 2011 at 1:56 pm #

    Eleuthero said:
    ” I have actually ADMITTED being a racist yet, paradoxically, unlike most self-preening hypocrites, I have a LARGE number of people of color involved in my social life.”
    and then Buck said:
    It sounds like the term “racist” is a bit limiting in this instance. I believe it was Q who raised the issue of what actually defines a racist a while back ago. Personally, I don’t think citing educational stats is inherently racist. In fact, many Latino activists have done exactly that in lamenting the deplorable high school graduation rates of Latino(a) students in Los Angeles and other areas of the California and the Southwest.
    ****************************************************************
    I totally agree, Buck, that the term “racist” is inaccurately used when citing data that are unflattering to this or that tribe. Yet that is EXACTLY what virtually every propaganda arm of every alleged “representative” organization of minority groups does at every single opportunity. When the “race card” is THAT “knee jerk” it’s an embarrassment to the people they think they are “defending”.
    I applaud those few voices in the wilderness, for ANY ethnicity, that seek to better the behavior and decorum of their constituencies, like Bill Cosby and Ward Connerly. As to the Hispanic constituency, remember the excellent movie “Stand and Deliver” with Olmos as Jaime Escalante? It accurately depicts high school teachers at Garfield High in Los Angeles who try to “protect” Hispanic kids from “humiliation” by dumbing down the curriculum.
    My experience in life, with ANY group of people, is that if you start out expecting and demanding the best, the WORST you will see is mediocrity. If you start out by demanding and expecting NOTHING, you’ll get that “nothing” … and worse, like neighborhood epidemics of violent crime.
    E.

  854. Eleuthero November 27, 2011 at 2:05 pm #

    Interesting that you talk about everything except OUTCOMES of all those “sterling” organizations. And for every organization like that there are embarrassments like Jesse Jackson whose normal modus operandi was on full display in the Duke Lacrosse scandal which ended up putting egg on the face of the Black community because of the knee-jerk “race card” played by Jackson and Al Sharpton.
    The JERKS in the Black community like the abovementioned two guys, moreover, are FAR more media-visible than the United Negro College Fund for which I have no bad words.
    Finally, I admit that I’m a “racist” because about 99% of people are, whatever they say to sanitize their social image … including YOU. Most lily-white liberal suburbanites who espouse all kinds of rhetoric to give voice to their love of other tribes don’t have ONE member of those tribes in their group of friends and would certainly NEVER socialize in a ghetto or barrio.
    You also skip over the parts of my post where I talk about people of color in my everyday social life. The point I’m trying to make is that until and unless people become honest about very covert racism, the whole subject is an absolute joke. You are part of that joke and, once again, you’re EVIL because you always engage in intentional HALF-TRUTHS about what people say.
    E.

  855. Eleuthero November 27, 2011 at 2:11 pm #

    Vlad, the comedy of feminism is seen on TV where drop-dead gorgeous babes are depicted as cryptographers or hackers and other types of heavily intellectuals in a crime-fighting team (like Pauly Perrette’s role in NCIS). In real life, after five decades of feminism, when you look at the ranks of first-rate scientists and engineers, the female presence is TOKEN.
    That’s one of many reasons why I gave up on television. Shows are only interesting to me if they bear a vague correlation to actual life. Most of them don’t in many respects but the vast overrepresentation of female “intellectuals” is one of the more comically UNREAL television representations.
    E.

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  856. Buck Stud November 27, 2011 at 2:18 pm #

    E,
    I share your disdain for certain types of ” behavior and decorum.” And by demanding the best, you are certainly not displaying racist behavior; in fact, just the opposite – IMO.
    I think it gets dodgy when people start citing stats. You seem to be citing educational stats as it applies to minorities and education as a statement of fact. Vlad, on the other hand, cites those same facts to reinforce his belief in a cultural deficiency theory, or the innate inability of certain ethnic groups. All a teacher can do is demand a student’s best, and impart their own knowledge to the best of their ability. If, on the other hand, a teacher prejudges minority students and deems them not worth of their best educational efforts, then racism has entered the picture – IMO.

  857. Eleuthero November 27, 2011 at 2:20 pm #

    I don’t know where you got, from my posts, any insinuations about immigration? You made two posts about immigration which were “replies” to my posts about the issues of race and racism. I haven’t a clue what you are responding to in my posts that has anything to do with the pros and cons of immigration.
    E.

  858. asoka. November 27, 2011 at 2:23 pm #

    Q said: “Asoka believes in spirituality but not in spirits. Go figure.”
    =================
    Q, we’ve been over this before and I have chastised you for not taking advantage of your educational opportunities when you attended St. Josephs.
    For those who don’t know, St. Joseph’s University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Philadelphia since 1851. It’s motto is: Spirit, Intellect, Purpose
    Q. went there but apparently didn’t get the part about Spirit.
    When I refer to spirituality I am referring to a 100% human activity with no ghosts or invisible beings involved.
    I agree with Saint Bonaventure that our HUMAN NATURE consists of three elements: Body, Mind, and Spirit. Being “spiritual” is knowing oneself; it is being human.
    We are more than just material bodies. We are more than mind and thoughts. Body, mind, and spirit are united as one in the human being.
    Per secula seculorum. Amen.

  859. tegmark November 27, 2011 at 2:26 pm #

    Statistics, big numbers, the myth of numbers, a numerical target to reach like life expectancy, GDP, how many blacks have college degrees, how many woman are managers and such “political correctiveness” crap: well who gives two c*cks and a d*ck ? Numbers don’t mean anything, like the myth of 100,000 iphone APPs and such when they all do practically nothing to very little. The numerical target as the goal. By the way, the GDP numbers are all false anyways, there is no way the USA exchanges 10,000 billion dollars a year, that would be like them building 100 million homes a year or a billion people working for 10,000 dollars a year, totally insane and false numbers, a bluff, a myth, a high maintenance target society, and more then saying that the debts can never be paid back, it would be more correct to say that the USA, EU and JAPAN can’t “Live Up” to their fairy tale target of imagined wealth and GDP level.
    So, I want that, my will power only, 7 billion people must follow my command, like a cry baby, I want that, trillions of Rockets and Cadillacs, my numbers are the only target, I too like big numbers, but my numbers. Society is just a machine that must be programmed towards a goal, and my goal is the correct one because I said so, I am the only one, just suck it up.
    So the problem of the “machine” is how to resolve conflicts and conflicting will powers between millions of people, quirk decisions, quirk values and such. There is no solution, only a communist dictatorship forcing billions to build the rockets and skyscrapers. And how can a sequence of symbols, a one dimensional thought see all the angles of the complex economical machine ? How can you solve everyone’s problems everywhere and for all time ? No way, jose’, it must be forced, hire billions of people to do nothing. And cheap rents. And free salaries, And a BUS system.
    I heard google has cars that drive themselves, that is what we need, a billion highways on Mars with trillions of Cadillacs with no one inside driving themselves all across the planet, with no goal or target but just to drive themselves, Automatic for the People, really cool, a work of art, a deep spiritual event. Jackasses.
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=177391
    TOBOR AN EIGHT MAN

  860. Eleuthero November 27, 2011 at 2:28 pm #

    Thanks, Buck. Yes, I’m aware of the gulf between how I use those “statistics” and how Vlad uses them. I’m only interested in ameliorating BAD RESULTS … in education and in criminal behavior. I have almost zero interest in discussing INHERENT inferiority of this group or that.
    After all, it’s the OUTCOMES of poor education and violent crime that affect individuals and neighborhoods and the quality of life of the people who reside in them. Indeed, Vlad likes to skim over the fact that I’ve averred, on many occasions, to the fact that recent data show that the race which is slipping downhill the FASTEST from its former status are CAUCASIANS. Many young Caucasians have bought into “prison” chic fashion and “bitch-slapping” music that I’d bet a large majority of minorities, especially OLDER generations, find reprehensible.
    E.

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  861. Buck Stud November 27, 2011 at 2:30 pm #

    On the other hand, is ” Reconquista” or other forms of racial retribution, racist in their own right? You bet they are. It’s a long way from ethnic studies for the sake of current understanding to justifying an “evening up of the score.”
    Somewhere in this convoluted equation Gandhi beckons.

  862. asoka. November 27, 2011 at 2:44 pm #

    Somewhere in this convoluted equation Gandhi beckons.
    ================
    La Reconquista is a nonviolent phenomenon. Millions have simply nonviolently crossed the border, looking for a better life — on land taken from them through violence.
    People of color will soon be a majority in the USA. Already we have a person of color in the White House (though he turned out, in many ways, to be a Republican).
    Just peacefully wanting to work, pay taxes, create jobs, contribute positively and constructively to society, and raise their families. I don’t think they need Gandhi. They have the inspiration of César Chávez.
    ¡Viva La Reconquista!

  863. ABSALOM November 27, 2011 at 2:46 pm #

    On categorical thinking:
    It’s taken me a minute to understand the types of exchanges I’ve seen in blogs, as I’ve only just begun to blog myself. It was at first easy to dismiss the innumerable masturbatory exchanges on everything from revisionist history, racial predilection, why Europe is better or worse than ‘Merica, etc. as the infinitude of self-aggrandizement incarnate; But it’s becoming more clear why otherwise intelligent bloggers lose themselves in puerile opinion trading.
    For more clarity about why some here continuously pee on someone else’s leg to proclaim why it’s it’s raining, see here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNnIGh9g6fA
    This comes from a dude with plenty of experience and data to back himself up, so if you’re the type who likes to fart in your hand and waft it toward others, fuck off.
    Enjoy

  864. anti soak November 27, 2011 at 3:04 pm #

    Its chilling Yale refused 20 MILLION dollars that had a string attached, That Euro Culture be taught!
    Name 1 Top US University that has a great
    American History Dept!
    See where things are?
    See where things are going?
    Hows my Capitalization?
    I didnt get a degree in Ethnic Studies!

  865. anti soak November 27, 2011 at 3:12 pm #

    ‘It’s not 1975 any more, dude. The USA is a failed empire that doesn’t even know how far it’s fallen because it’s so full of itself’
    Its not like that anymore due to 100 million more carbon footprints here.
    Capisce?

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  866. ABSALOM November 27, 2011 at 3:17 pm #

    E,
    Chris Rock would certainly agree with you!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7HHB3sDtfA
    ABSALOM

  867. progress2conserve November 27, 2011 at 3:22 pm #

    Well, alrighty then –
    Here it is Sunday, and talk on CFN turns to race.
    Quelle suprise!
    Now, don’t get me wrong – race is one of THE important questions for the United States, and therefore race is worthwhile for discussion, IMO.
    Some posters hate it, though.
    And Absolom, I’ve got the Sapolsky audio running in the background, so I’m trying to figure out why asoka. keeps whizzing on everyone else’s leg – or whatever it was you just said.
    So – here we go with Buck:
    “One thing that bothers me though is he seems to place too much stock in the meritocracy of America. Which is fine as far as it goes, but that is less and less in America 2011 or so it feels to me. Perhaps that particular column was dated and Reed is no spring chicken, but I have to believe there are some systemic barriers that were not so tall when Reed was a young man.”
    -buck stud, regarding fred on black decline-
    Buck – what are you arguing here?
    It sounds to me like you are making an argument for perpetual Affirmative Action, now and forever.
    But that probably is an inaccurate assumption on my part because you just said:
    “On the other hand, is ” Reconquista” or other forms of racial retribution, racist in their own right? You bet they are. It’s a long way from ethnic studies for the sake of current understanding to justifying an “evening up of the score.”
    Somewhere in this convoluted equation Gandhi beckons.” -buckstud-
    At some point in the misty and unlikely future – where the lights stay on, the food trucks keep running, and the US population keeps climbing – in THAT future, Affirmative Action will have to be seen as a way of “evening up of the score,” that was declared to be counterproductive to a once great Nation.
    Oh – and if Gandhi beckons – he is beckoning us to move forward together and forgive the wrongs that were perpetuated in the past.
    Like that’ll happen!

  868. progress2conserve November 27, 2011 at 3:32 pm #

    “You know, the day you die, and the beliefs you hold pass too, the world will start to become a better place. lets hope that day is soon so the healing can begin.”
    -deeJones, to vlad-
    Dee – you have already evidenced an untoward fascination with Vlad’s sex life, his male fluids, and his genitalia.
    We get it. You don’t like Vlad. There is something about what he believes that has negative resonance in a deep, dark, and unfortunate space in your spirit.
    We get it.
    But, wishing for him to die seems a little over the top – for an anonymous blog.
    Wouldn’t you agree?

  869. asoka. November 27, 2011 at 3:41 pm #

    Absalom, thank you for the Introduction to Human Behavior video. I liked the part on Chaos.
    Did I catch that Sapolsky does not believe in free will?
    Nor do I.
    You?

  870. progress2conserve November 27, 2011 at 3:51 pm #

    “I do read him sometimes – he’s cool. He is friendly with White Nationalists and has spoken at the Amren Conference before. He isn’t one obviously, but he knows Whites are getting seriously fucked over by the US Goverment. He knows all about low Black IQ and high Black criminality and in short, is on speaking terms with all the things you desperately try to pretend away.”
    -vlad, on fred on everything-
    “desperately try to pretend away”???
    That’s a little strong, vlad.
    But I see no use in DWELLING on black IQ and criminality, either. And there are mitigating factors – which must be acknowledged – and with as little hate as possible –
    -from either end of the spectrum.
    Anyway – The genie is out of the bottle in the US – as regards National enforcement of integrated public spaces. The genie will NEVER go back – as long as there is a United States.
    Move forward, man.
    =================

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  871. ABSALOM November 27, 2011 at 4:00 pm #

    Well, cause and effect would eliminate the need for willpower, no?
    But I’m aware monotheists argue that God has endowed us with fee will, yet then discuss God’s plan. They defeat themselves before they even begin. This is the essence of categorical thinking.
    I particularly enjoy what tangential polymaths have to say about free will:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jjy-FU6tqPI
    ABSALOM

  872. Qshtik November 27, 2011 at 4:10 pm #

    They have the inspiration of César Chávez.
    ==============
    He went 43-3 and 1 in the junior welterweight division didn’t he?

  873. Qshtik November 27, 2011 at 4:37 pm #

    God has endowed us with fee will
    ============
    No Abs, God has endowed the banks with fee will.

  874. progress2conserve November 27, 2011 at 4:45 pm #

    “Asoka, you have no respect for truth and this is the one constant which makes me generally IGNORE your self-promoting gibberish. Sometimes, however, you just get so EVIL that you must be reprimanded.”
    -E-
    E, I genuinely despise the asoka. persona, because of the nasty effect he has on this discussion thread. I’ve looked back into the CFN archives once or twice, trying to figure out what is wrong with him. Basically, I concluded he just likes to win pseudo points, points that were his own mental constructs in the first place.
    So – with exceptions – I try to never respond to him directly. And sometimes it’s fun to analyze his characteristics in the third person, in conversation with another poster on CFN.
    If only he would append one of those sayings of his – – “Never take asoka. seriously, he’s a proud joke who believes in nothing and everything at once…and he will never leave CFN”
    If he would append that to the bottom of every post – we could achieve more clarity.
    =======================
    Beyond that, E, I’d never noticed you claiming to be a racist before this weekend. I guess I missed it.
    Do you think your retirement is freeing you to think in this way? Personally, I spent a 30 year career, some of it in very visible public contact positions.
    I had to forcefully subvert ANY racist notions and thoughts – because I could not do my job(s) and deal with the public if I acknowledged feelings of racism – even to myself.
    But somehow – now that I have retired out of that – and ESPECIALLY, after 1.5 years on this CFN blog – – –
    I find racist thoughts harder to subvert. Mainly (mostly?) because the asoka.’s of this blog have taught me that I and my family can NEVER EVER, NOT EVER – give up enough to make the Black (brown/yellow/mestizo??) Grievance Coalition of the United States happy.
    Never, Ever – can enough be given. Ever.
    ========================
    Not that I really think asoka. is black. And he sure isn’t 70 years old. That’s just an act for the unwary.
    Completely unverifiable, BS.
    Totally. Useless.
    He’ll be here next week though.
    Pernicious as ever.
    But I don’t want him to die, DEE.
    Nor am I interested in his vasectomized gonads.
    Those are for others to reflect upon.

  875. Qshtik November 27, 2011 at 4:49 pm #

    Did I catch that Sapolsky does not believe in free will?
    Nor do I.
    ================
    So that would mean we’re off the hook for dropping the atom bombs on Japan?
    Whew, thank goodness.

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  876. Russ A November 27, 2011 at 5:11 pm #

    Hmmm well even I grow weary of the gloom and doom talk since year after year no end of the world occurs. True, I saw all this coming before 2000 and was laughed at by everyone who knew me. However, you must give credit to the PTB for being able to keep this ship afloat. Somewhere, a resolution, a new Paradigm, will appear which will broadside Mr. Kunstler and all those who are waiting for the financial and energy apocalypse. Not saying the result will be for the good, but it will not be the “end” by any means.
    Now look at all those Black Friday shoppers…..more were out shopping than last year, and buying $1 billion more.
    Sound like the end? Nope. the “Emergency” is taking much longer than you think.
    People are still shopping. They still have some money. Period. Simple as that. The boat is still afloat.

  877. anti soak November 27, 2011 at 5:13 pm #

    ‘an anonymous blog’,Such is the Beauty / Horror of this!
    Consider the source of the comments!
    Maybe DJ found a way to kill ideas.

  878. ABSALOM November 27, 2011 at 5:13 pm #

    Oops! Right on, Q.

  879. ABSALOM November 27, 2011 at 5:36 pm #

    Q,
    While it seems clear we don’t have the ability to self-determine; we humans don’t get to choose outcomes other than what are predetermined by natural law — rules our species does not fully understand — yet; nevertheless, we do have the ability to self-direct; hence, the reason a people by way of their government can choose to roast 100,000 folks in a nuclear instant, or, decide to provide the culture with the subsistence of well managed nuclear power.
    An old salt once told me in a nutshell: we’re all responsible for sailing our own ships. One simply has to be bothered to learn how to harness the wind, or risk drifting perilously toward the rocks.
    Aside from the many great thinkers I’ve come across over the years, this cranky sailor has been the single most influential of my life. He still tosses me a lifesaver every now and again too. Wish I could shake his hand just once.

  880. Vlad Krandz November 27, 2011 at 5:55 pm #

    Prog, believe it or not, I’m an empath in my daily life. If a waiter drops a tray of plates, I feel for him. The other kind of person laughs with pleasure. If I’m walking at night in an isolated neighborhood and am going to pass a women up ahead, I’ll go to the other side of the street. I don’t want to her to be afraid and I don’t want to feel her fear.
    I would never want to hurt a Black person’s feelings without cause, but the Truth is the Truth. The answer isn’t always yes in life. Because the Left obfuscated the Truth about Race and damned anyone who spoke out, we have come to this pass. As I said before, LBJ spoke the curse: equal outcomes. And of course, separate education became illegal because it was automatically unequal – even if the Blacks got more money. So now we have teachers having “erasure parties” where they change the test scores of minorities. Obama just quietly ended Bush’s No Child Left Behind – an utter disaster in the making. That’s what lead to the cheating scandals.
    Can you feel what I’m saying? In this world, nothing fully exists until a big deal is made of it. If the Left didn’t drive the Blacks into a killing rage, we could go back to letting everything settle where it should. The few gifted Blacks could attend magnet or test schools with Whites, Asians, and the few gifted Hispanics. Most Blacks would be given vocational training with no BS about going to college – as would most Whites for that matter.
    Thank you for speaking out to Dee. She’s nuts – I would need a restraining order if we lived in the same city. And I love that Bitch and just want to help her.

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  881. Vlad Krandz November 27, 2011 at 6:28 pm #

    Even on the boats that did have an officer or crewman, they couldn’t compel the women to row back – the women were not enlisted men under discipline but rather private citizens.
    Have you read an Sociobiology? From that point of view, some of these feminine attitudes make sense. Men have millions of sperm to throw away but women have only very few eggs in a lifetime and only one at a time. So a Tribe or Nation could lose many men but still recover. But lose many women and it’s game over. Thus from this point of view, men are the expendables, the use and throw aways. Alot of women have this attitude until it’s covered over by gentility and good manners. But it’s still luring underneath.
    But let’s face it, that altho true, it’s a very primitive strata of consciousness. Men don’t see themselves as firewood to be used and used up. If we are loved and honored, we naturally tend towards self sacrafice. But Feminism wants the self sacrafice without giving us either love or honor. You can’t have it both ways as I tried to tell Truthteller. We can’t be emascualtated and mocked 24/7 and then told to man up when our aggression is needed. It doesn’t work that way. Women love to put men in boxes and it’s going to backfire on them.
    Forget the details, but there was a shipwreck a few years ago. It was every man for himself with elbows flying. Women didn’t do so well and who cares? You’re supposed to be just as strong as we are, right? Believe it or not, alot of women believe all the TV shows. I worked with one – a bright woman too.
    I got off the subway late one night and a homeless woman said something to me. She must have missed the bus that went to the shelter. I couldn’t make out what she said so I just ignored her. I heard something so I whirled around. Sure enough she was charging at me, enraged that I had ingored her request for the time. She was kind of big (as tall as me) and I sensed she had intended to start hitting me from behind. I went into a relaxed boxing stance and ordered her to back up. She started calling me a faggot and threatening to kick my ass if I hit her. But she did stop. How do you think I handled it? Do you think I was a faggot for being ready to defend myself? Do you think a “real man” lets a woman beat him?
    I wouldn’t have hurt her if I could help it, but I would have defended myself if she had come on. I would have stared with a two handed push at her face – this is very unpleasant but doesn’t cause injury. If that didn’t disuade her, I would have started to throw open hand palm strikes which would have hurt and could cause injury.

  882. asoka. November 27, 2011 at 6:48 pm #

    ProCon,
    Perhaps now is a good time to repeat what I said about seven years ago: I am going to debunk the doomster’s TEOTHAWKI fear postings that appear weekly. I am going to do this for 12 years. If the DOW still hasn’t hit 4,000 in those 12 years, I am going to leave CFN. I don’t want to waste another 12 years pointing out the acolyte behavior of CFN true believers.
    So about seven years have passed and I am thinking maybe not to stay 12 years. Maybe ten. So in three years I will re-evaluate leaving for good.
    By the way I like your suggestion to append a statement to the end of each of my posts, but it is a hassle as it requires more typing.
    Also, I would change it a bit, like this:

    Asoka is a joke unto himself. Never take anything Asoka says seriously, including this message.

    The above is a true statement.
    I have not aspired to be a clown or a joke, but many have awarded me that status. I am OK with that, if that is their perception. I do not want to interfere with anyone’s freedom to believe whatever nonsense they want to believe about me.

  883. DeeJones November 27, 2011 at 7:07 pm #

    “Even on the boats that did have an officer or crewman, they couldn’t compel the women to row back – the women were not enlisted men under discipline but rather private citizens.”
    So, your answer kinda sidesteps the original question and the answer I provided. Do you have any documented proof that the officers ordered women to row towards survivors to pick them up, and the women refusing? No? Then admit you are wrong and made the whole thing up, ok?
    And gee, I guess I didn’t realize you were an empath and just couldn’t feel your luv.
    So I guess I don’t want you dead, IF there is any hope of change for the better for you. But your silly racist thinking will die out someday, just hope its before it take the human race along with it.
    Oh, and on this comment: ‘So a Tribe or Nation could lose many men but still recover. But lose many women and it’s game over.”; I’m wondering if you have read the mitocondrial research that postulates that at one time in the ancient past the (black) human race almost did die out, and it came down to just a few (black) survivors remaining, and the mitocondrial DNA represented in all of our cells comes from basicaly one BLACK woman who lived several thousand years ago.
    BTW: I was also wondering if you ever took that blood test to see how much black DNA was in your families past? Nope? Too scary a thing to find out, eh?
    Well, till next post by OUr God on the Blog, JHK –
    🙂

  884. asoka. November 27, 2011 at 7:24 pm #

    you must give credit to the PTB for being able to keep this ship afloat.

    ======================
    What I don’t understand is how TPTB are able to get around the Laws of Physics.
    Years ago geniuses on CFN were telling me I did not understand the Laws of Physics and collapse was imminent. They repeated this every year until they disappeared from CFN or decided to change handles.
    There are people here who say an increase in USA population due to immigration means THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT. Think of the children! Think of the grandchildren!
    I think the children and grandchildren will figure it out for themselves. We don’t need to do any thinking for them.
    Did you catch the George Carlin video on “Saving the Planet”?
    http://www.oshonews.com/2011/10/saving-the-planet/
    This George Carlin video is being promoted by Osho News.

    If we can make more people lovable, celebrating, more spontaneous, the global crisis can be avoided. But don’t take it seriously, be playful about it. If existence wants this planet not to exist, who are we to prevent it? Every day stars disappear into black holes and every day new stars are born from white holes. One thing has to be remembered, that anything that is born is going to die. This planet has been here for near about four thousand million years. Perhaps it has become old, perhaps nothing can be done to save it. It needs rest, and death is a rest. But I’m not saying that you should work to destroy, I am saying that, while things are alive, enjoy, dance, sing, love. — Osho, Hari Om Tat Sat, Chapter 12.

  885. Buck Stud November 27, 2011 at 7:57 pm #

    Prog,
    My first comment regarding Reed was in response to one of his columns(an older one I believe) in which he seemed to asserting that economic struggle in America is a result of individual effort or lack thereof. My comment was directed towards that and not affirmative action. More to the point, well educated, hard working people are feeling the effects of this economic paradigm shift and in his later columns (which I read after my original comment) he seems to acknowledge this as well. And thanks for bringing him to our attention.
    One point you never seemed to have debated with Asoka if my memory serves me correctly. Asoka is for open borders, and believes that American taxpayers should foot the bill for illegal immigrants who enter the country and begin using medical services. His rationale is that there should be no borders, that people should be free to come and go anywhere they please. No borders and no nations, in other words. But what authority is supposed to collect the taxes that finance free medical services for the gypsy spirit? This is where Asoka’s logic completely and utterly disconnects from reality.

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  886. dale November 27, 2011 at 7:59 pm #

    Alright swords it is then, anytime. However, if we must live in the modern world then…..
    http://www.taurususa.com/gun-selector-results.cfm?series=41&toggle=tr
    Personal Defense: Keep it simple…shotgun good, long barrel bad. After first shot is fired you’re blind anyway. With one of these you can be scared, blind, half asleep, still keep ’em dancing.

  887. progress2conserve November 27, 2011 at 8:27 pm #

    “But what authority is supposed to collect the taxes that finance free medical services for the gypsy spirit? This is where Asoka’s logic completely and utterly disconnects from reality.”
    -buckstud-
    Well, buck, if you can acknowledge that asoka.’s logic occasionally disconnects from reality –
    – – Well then, maybe you’re gonna’ be OK there, Sonny Boy. hahohe
    ————————
    And, honestly, many posters have taken asoka. and others to task over the ESSENTIAL INCOMPATIBILITY between the modern welfare state and an open borders policy.
    With due respect to Lbendet, Wage, and several other spokespersons for what used to be the social safety nets and the other accouterments of 1960’s Welfare State America – one reason the social safety nets HAVE to be gutted – IS unfettered immigration of persons without much capital and without much education.
    Otherwise, the system is unsustainable.
    TPTB may not be all that intelligent, in the US.
    But they can draw straight lines.
    And work to protect their capital.

  888. Buck Stud November 27, 2011 at 8:32 pm #

    “In the end, this left many with a serious disillusionment that turned them into the horrible, materialists that are now the so-called Masters of the Universe.”
    Ar first I was tempted to write you a snarky reply such as, yeah right, Blankfein and Dimon once upon a time ran around in all red clothes, genuflecting to their Guru. But never mind the financial elite of Wall Street, the ‘New Age’ movement in general is led by grifters, profiteers, liars, phonies, snake-oil salesmen.
    I knew a few people who devoted themselves to Rajneesh in Oregon. They changed their name, sold their belongings, donated money and worked like pack mules for their Guru. Eventually two of them divorced but they remained united in separation by their willingness to fleece other ‘seekers of light and truth’ via exorbitant monetary dues. They learned well from their time spent in Oregon and they also learned the real meaning of wearing red: Bleed your followers dry.

  889. progress2conserve November 27, 2011 at 8:56 pm #

    “But your silly racist thinking will die out someday, just hope its before it take the human race along with it.”
    -deejones, to vlad-
    Dee – you need to consider the possibility that “silly racist thinking” is not silly at all –
    But rather consider the possibility that human beings are completely hardwired for social stratification – whether on the basis of race, or something less visible –
    ———————-
    I know you’re in Costa Rica, so you can argue that you know more about this subject than I – living as I do in the States, and in Georgia, no less.
    But I’ve traveled quite a bit – and I’ve never seen a society that is MORE egalitarian, with respect to race and opportunity – than is the society of the modern United States.
    Seriously, Dee – Isn’t Costa Rica racially stratified? Because most of Latin America CERTAINLY is – to a greater or lesser extent.
    Isn’t your doctor/dentist/banker – on average lighter skinned
    Than is your cook, your cleaning woman, and your gardener?
    —————–
    Maybe your situation is an exception –
    or maybe not.
    Just be honest with yourself –
    and then be honest with CFN.

  890. progress2conserve November 27, 2011 at 9:22 pm #

    This is a refreshing bit of honesty, asoka.:
    “Perhaps now is a good time to repeat what I said about seven years ago: I am going to debunk the doomster’s TEOTHAWKI fear postings that appear weekly. I am going to do this for 12 years. If the DOW….”
    -asoka.-
    This explains how AND why you are able to float above the discussion and take insipid out-of-context potshots at JHK’s readers.
    IT’S BECAUSE YOU DON’T BELIEVE ANY OF IT – NOT ONE SINGLE WORD.
    Pointless. Waste of Space.
    Did you ever consider the possibility that posters NEED a place like CFN – where they can consider the worst possibilities that their future has to offer?
    Of course not. You are asoka..
    —————-
    “By the way I like your suggestion to append a statement to the end of each of my posts, but it is a hassle as it requires more typing.
    Also, I would change it a bit, like this:
    Asoka is a joke unto himself. Never take anything Asoka says seriously, including this message.”
    -asoka.-
    Look, asoka. – as much effort as you put into this discussion thread – what’s a few more keystrokes. It sure would help the energy flow and the CFN discussion every week.
    Just say:
    “Asoka. is a joke unto himself. Never take anything Asoka. says seriously, including this message.”
    It’s only 96 keystrokes total, including spaces.
    Just do it, a..
    Or maybe someone could help you with this.

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  891. asoka. November 27, 2011 at 9:32 pm #

    BuckStud, you should go back and read the debate I had with ProCon about immigration. I changed my position on open borders as a result of that debate.
    My position is no longer as you represent it. I am no longer calling for the elimination of borders.
    Here is my reply to ProCon which details my new position:
    November 8, 2011 7:50 PM | Reply
    ProCon, I am shifting my position on immigration a little bit.
    I am willing to give in to the reality of borders. I now believe international borders should be recognized as areas of bi-national interdependence and international border areas should be authentic fair trade zones where people are free to travel across borders for work, shopping, or recreation.
    I believe immigrants should have the right to receive medical care,education,housing and access to all available public benefits and services.
    I support legalization programs to provide immigrants with the ability to obtain permanent residency status.
    I favor a reduction of the private and public militarization of the U.S.-Mexican border and protection against intimidation by public officials or private individuals.
    The legalization time line should be fair,simplified,transparent,affordable and attainable within five years after entry. Immediate and full legalization should be offered for all immigrants and their families currently residing in the United States.
    Enforcement of immigration laws is the responsibility of the federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency (ICE). All immigrants should have the right to be secure in their houses and protected against unreasonable search and seizure and to be protected against arbitrary arrest or detention based on racial or cultural profiling.
    Interpreters should be available in emergency rooms,hospitals and healthcare clinics.
    I support policies that restore and guarantee the civil rights provided for under the Constitution of the United States,which specifically states that the rights apply to all persons residing in the United States,must apply to all races and ethnicities equally.

  892. Buck Stud November 27, 2011 at 9:34 pm #

    When you originally asked me “How many” I had no answer. In fact, I cannot comprehend what another 100 million might feel like. But if you ask me would I like to be enveloped by twice as many people of course I would say no. My own self-interest treasures a certain quality of life and sardine-land doesn’t qualify. However, my self-interest is neither here nor there when it boils down to planetary carrying capacity. Simply put, I don’t know how many is too much or what is enough. Moreover,I can’t change anything anyway. It’s like me stating I want to be a six-foot-five multimillionaire with a tench-inch penis – I’m never going to be rich or tall.
    I believe in social services/welfare for people who need it. But those safety nets should be reserved for American citizens, otherwise a nation is courting disaster, such as hospital closings in Southern California.
    I was recently talking to an acquaintance who works as an elementary school teacher in the Southwest. He told me that entire school districts are now populated by recent arrivals from Mexico. He also told me that white kids no longer attend these schools; they have vanished as in White Flight. He told me that almost to a child every kid is on free/reduced lunch program, but that nearly everyone of these kids has an I-Phone.
    Most of these teachers are trying to do a heroic job, and succeeding to a certain degree – nearly all of the kids are becoming proficient in English. The stories are heartbreaking,though: indifferent parents who do not attend teacher/parent conferences; kids who would rather be at school than at home because of domestic strife; parents who encourage older students to quit school and go to work. Essentially, these schools are racially segregated except for the teachers themselves and that does not bode well.

  893. Buck Stud November 27, 2011 at 9:50 pm #

    Asoka writes:
    ” I am willing to give in to the reality of borders. I now believe international borders should be recognized as areas of bi-national interdependence and international border areas should be authentic fair trade zones where people are free to travel across borders for work, shopping, or recreation.”
    Ok, but then the rest of you post co-mingles “fair trade zones” where people are “free to travel across borders for work, shopping, or recreation” with ” immigrants should have the right to receive medical care,education,housing and access to all available public benefits and services.”
    Which bring up this quandry. Is a person who decides to permanently stay in the US after a day of working, shopping, or recreating in a fair trade zone a legitimate immigrant? Or are they “illegal’ and subject to deportation by Ice?

  894. progress2conserve November 27, 2011 at 10:10 pm #

    “He told me that almost to a child every kid is on free/reduced lunch program, but that nearly everyone of these kids has an I-Phone.”
    -buck stud-
    Ok, DeeJones – you don’t see any possibility of welfare fraud here? Any at all??
    =======================
    And Buck – you’ve got the essential idea. We, you and me and everyone else – as LEGAL CITIZENS are entitled to the benefits of citizenship.
    And we – all of us here as LEGAL citizens now – are entitled to a voice in population numbers, use of AFDC/welfare – and ALL of the rest.
    =========================
    “Moreover,I can’t change anything anyway. It’s like me stating I want to be a six-foot-five multimillionaire with a tench-inch penis – I’m never going to be rich or tall.”
    -buckstud-
    You can change things, buck.
    We all can.
    We have to, or we’re dead, and the Planet with us.
    And – on a lighter note – I’m happy for you that you are well hung, with that tench inch penis and all.
    And now – I’m done for the evening.
    If JHK posts on Monday – I’ll be back.

  895. asoka. November 27, 2011 at 10:17 pm #

    This is a refreshing bit of honesty, asoka.:
    =================
    ProCon, I like you as a person. I read all your posts. I do not want you to be shunned and do not despise your posts, even though I disagree with you.
    You have criticized me because I often disagree with our host. How can one not disagree? Take this week’s post:

    Everybody is broke and everybody is in hock up to his prefrontal lobes and everybody is whirling around the drain over in the grand continental theme park of lovely cities and great eats. I’m sorry, but I don’t see how they can stop the hemorrhaging as we slide into the season of holiday enchantment.

    Now, look at the reality of Black Friday. People were spending, so obviously everybody is not broke. In fact, if you consult the economists they will tell you personal debt and credit card debt is down. If somebody is broke and “in hock up to his prefrontal lobes,” then they have no plastic money either. Yet Black Friday showed that is not the case for “everybody.” Have you drunk so much cool-aid that you can not see how our host is exaggerating?

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  896. AMR November 27, 2011 at 10:39 pm #

    Point well taken about oil and aerospace companies behaving reprehensibly and disingenuously sucking from the government tit. I made those sectors out to be a lot more saintly than I should have.
    I still maintain, however, that oil and aerospace companies are a hell of a lot more productive and beneficial to society than the banks have become in recent decades. For all their faults, I can’t help but respect their very ability to produce and refine oil or manufacture aircraft that have some of the best safety records of any vehicles in the history of transportation. Of course, this safety record is largely the result of regulatory coercion from governments, but the fact that commercial aircraft have become so safe as a class is also a tremendous testimony to the skill and diligence of the engineers, technicians, assembly line workers and other employees needed to produce planes that don’t routinely rattle apart in the skies. Conversely, one of the worst problems afflicting the oil industry today is a lack of effective regulatory oversight, as witnessed by the Deepwater Horizon, the Exxon Valdez, the fracking mess, etc.
    I would argue that the overall amount of bullshit involved in the aerospace and oil businesses, even taking into account their lobbying and advertising activities, is substantially lower than the amount of bullshit in the banking sector, precisely because oil and aerospace companies provide tangible products and services, whereas banks have progressively degenerated from important capital and savings institutions into useless fee rackets with no sense of due diligence or ethical responsibility.
    You’re right to point out the special favors that oil and aerospace companies wheedle out of governments. This sort of crony capitalism is a huge problem among influential corporations in almost every sector of the US economy, as well as the economies of most other developed countries. Oil and aerospace certainly deserve blame in this regard, but I’m not sure that they deserve special blame. Wal-Mart, for instance, flagrantly externalizes tens of billions of dollars of its costs annually onto American governments at every level, particularly for social services for its very poorly compensated staff, all while advertising itself as the epitome of private enterprise.
    We have a very serious problem indeed in our Congress, our national media and ourselves as an electorate when Amtrak receives more blame for a billion-odd dollars in federal subsidies for national rail and bus service than for-profit corporations do for tens of billions’ worth of giveaways that they actively solicit through undue influence-peddling.

  897. progress2conserve November 27, 2011 at 10:50 pm #

    OK – one more
    I don’t like you asoka..
    I don’t like the way you screw up the dialog.
    I like JHK – exaggerations and all.
    He’s a talented writer. He has a perspective with which I generally agree. I like most of the thread-riders that JHK attracts, even many of the ones with whom I violently disagree. I like their honesty. I like their ability to change their minds when new information is presented to them.
    You have none of these qualities, asoka..
    You simper, and preen, and NEVER change your mind about anything significant.
    I’ve read that thing you wrote about Controlling Borders – three times now – and I don’t see where it represents a change that helps much of anything important.
    Furthermore, I do not like Black Friday.
    I do not like economic growth.
    Selfishly, I should like economic growth.
    It makes my stocks go up.
    It makes my real estate go up.
    But I am not willing to sacrifice the future of the US and of the planet – due to my own selfishness. So I fight against economic growth.
    The US population grows by 1,000,000 LEGAL immigrants per year – so it is NO WONDER that each Black Friday gets a little bit bigger and a little bit worse than the proceeding year’s Black Friday.
    I am certain that ENOUGH economic growth will kill the ecosystems that support human life.
    I do not know when this will occur.
    I suspect that the point is closer in the future than most of us would like to think.
    Immigrants contribute to economic growth in the US, therefore I am opposed to any further immigration into the US.
    I also don’t like you, asoka., because you will never just agree to disagree. You pick at scabs. You magnify differences. You never let anything rest. You think you own this CFN blog, for some bizarre reason.
    You need to dislike me – as a person.
    That would make it mutual.
    Good night.

  898. AMR November 27, 2011 at 11:56 pm #

    I’ve noticed a very similar ignorance about the world’s workings, particularly in relation to oil and electricity, in Ashland, OR. (I’ve described it in more detail on my blog, under the title “Mass Transit for Other People.”) What amazes me is that otherwise well-educated, well-informed, intelligent, intellectually engaged people with a keen interest in environmental matters blithely act as though their prodigal use of electricity and gasoline is of no consequence to themselves or others.
    My uncle and aunt offer a stunning example, having relocated from Los Altos to a remote mountain woodlot not five years after the Arab oil embargo. They are completely and irremediably dependent on cars to get anywhere at all, and on 4WD vehicles for much of the winter.
    The kicker is that for most of the time since the crash of ’08 they have been all but broke, in debt to an extent that requires them to solicit emergency bailouts from investors or forbearance from creditors once or twice a year, depleting their home equity with a reverse mortgage–and yet they continue to spend something like $3-4k a year out of their $20k in combined pension income on driving expenses, even though they have another fully plumbed cabin on their farm, where my uncle spends most of his workdays and which is no more than quarter as far as their mountain cabin from my aunt’s workplace in town.
    Southern Oregon is positively infested with people who are obsessed with kitschy notions of country living. With occasional exceptions these notions bear no relation at all to actual reliance on the fruits of the land, making the region’s proud country bumpkins for all practical purposes exurbanites. This goes for my uncle and aunt, too, in spite of my uncle’s operation of a productive working farm. Probably more of the local country bumpkins than I’m aware of are being financially ruined by their lifestyles, as my uncle and aunt are.
    As a native of and frequent visitor to the Bay Area, what I find pathetic and disgusting about this militant country pose is that it is so often made by people who were raised in the Bay Area, or else in other major urban areas on the West Coast, and who complain at every opportunity about the wretchedness and dysfunction of their native metro areas. One of the greatest absurdities is their frequent assertion that people in the Bay Area are forced to drive everywhere through heavy traffic. Listening to these people, one would think that Caltrain and the VTA 22 bus are fictions. The truth is that these moaners have chosen throughout their lives to drive everywhere and have deliberately relocated from neighborhoods with mass transit to ones without it.
    It’s disturbing to find farmers and professed environmentalists devoted to this psychosis. One of the clearest advantages that I see my generation, the Millennials, having over Gen X and the Boomers is that we seem less ensnared by happy motoring than our parents and grandparents. That’s precisely the advantage that city slickers have over country bumpkins, too, and a major reason that I’m working on plans to relocate to LA, where I’ll be able to hop on a trolley and forget about happy motoring psychotics for the afternoon.

  899. Vlad Krandz November 27, 2011 at 11:56 pm #

    You have been uncovered. There is nothing that a Witch hates more.
    When you die, you will become a spirit in the world of spirits, just as you are a body in the physical world right now. Acutally, that “spirit” is just a more subtle body….

  900. Eleuthero November 28, 2011 at 12:12 am #

    Absalom said:
    Chris Rock would certainly agree with you!
    ************************************************************
    What a HILARIOUS YouTube show!! I loved these three lines of Rock’s when he tried to deal with the black portrayal of the media as being one of their oppressors: “When I’m at the money machine at night, I ain’t lookin’ over my shoulder for the media. I’m lookin’ fo’ some niggas!!” and “Oh look, here come Mike Wallace. Run!!”. And, perhaps, funniest of all … “Ted Koppel ain’t taken SHIT from me!!”
    What’s really interesting is that Rock’s audience, when you looked at the camera pan was almost entirely Black. Black people, contrary to the beliefs of their goofy propagandists, DO “get it”. Only Dave Chappelle can equal Rock’s gritty humor. To top things off, here is the first comment on Rock’s video from a BLACK WOMAN who has obviously been a victim of the “Uncle Tom” call in her own community:
    “People who are mad at Chris dont understand that he’s not talking about all black people. He’s talking about the blacks who don’t want to better themselves because they’re so focused on portraying a “hood” image. Those black people are ignorant because they don’t want to get out of the projects. Some of them think going to jail is aspirational.They think the black people (like me) who have ambition and intelligence are trying? “to act white.” Their ignorance gives our culture a bad name.”
    beautifulgirl425 2 months ago

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  901. Eleuthero November 28, 2011 at 12:18 am #

    Hi, AMR!! Always glad to see a reply from you. I’m very well acquainted with the “People’s Republic of Oregon” whose southern capitol is Ashland.
    Indeed, what you pilloried is something I’ve made fun of for years i.e., the “survivalist” mentality. These ignoramuses are going to be in the back woods, farthest from supply points for food and fuel yet they fancy that they’re living a perspicacious or even “green” lifestyle even though many have to drive 3 miles just to get to a convenience store.
    Your screed about the Oregon and Los Altos people was funny and, in my opinion, very well observed and depicted by you. Thanks!!
    E.

  902. anti soak November 28, 2011 at 12:24 am #

    Are there 700,000 babies born each year in USA?
    Mostly to immigrants and illegals?
    also:
    ‘I don’t like you asoka’
    Yes thats obvious, awhile back did I get you to agree to ignore him?
    You might like:
    bare naked muslim.com
    creeping sharia.com
    jihad watch
    Or you may have been there, read them.

  903. anti soak November 28, 2011 at 12:26 am #

    Asoka: its ‘Kool’ not ‘cool’ in Kool-Aid.
    Maybe stop reading P2C’s posts.

  904. AMR November 28, 2011 at 1:19 am #

    Q,
    The one-year price crashes that you mentioned should be a lot scarier for short-term investors than for long-term investors. The median age of my stock holdings is on the order of eight years, so one-year price crashes don’t particularly worry me as long as the broader fundamentals of the companies I own look reasonably sound. The only stocks I bought at a genuine peak were relatively small airline stakes shortly before 9/11, and even in those cases what ultimately really burned me was taking my buy-and-hold strategy to an extreme. Even so, these losses caused me less stress than I would face trying to predict market moves weekly or monthly in order to maximize gains. Even the more restrained versions of buy-low-sell-high trading are too much like day trading for my taste.
    Your description of high-dividend stocks following general market trends but with smaller betas was exactly what I expected. This is because a lot less of the principal is at stake in these investments than in non-dividend paying stocks, whose gains or losses come entirely in the form of price fluctuations. It stands to reason that non- and low-dividend paying stocks would have greater fluctuations on account of investors being consumed by mass euphoria or mass despair; minor price fluctuations for these stocks are naturally amplified when investors scramble to cash in on short-term trends and not be left either holding the bag or missing out on big paydays. What surprises me is that there is as little difference in volatility as you described between high dividend payers and the major indices.
    I haven’t done the relevant research, but my guess is that Citi was anomalous among high-dividend yield stocks for having its value wiped out. In most of the cases that I’m aware of, share price wipeouts were preceded by serious flaws in company fundamentals that were easily detected by alert investors. UAL was a classic case: its finances were a notorious mess for years prior to its filing under Chapter 11. The only clear exception to this rule that I’m aware of is Enron, which did an unusually good job of keeping its cooked books under wraps. If memory serves, Citi, like all but the most indisputably diligent banks, should have raised red flags on account of the obviously hysterical inflation of the housing market and the raving nuttery of the subprime/ARM debacle. I would be surprised if the obliteration of market capitalization for any major bank came as a bolt out of the blue for diligent investors.

  905. AMR November 28, 2011 at 3:03 am #

    You’re welcome, E.
    Most of the people I’ve described aren’t full-fledged survivalists, although they are fellow travelers on account of their interest in going “back to the land.” Only a handful of them have anything on the doomstead nuts who populate points east, e.g. Northern Idaho. From what I’ve read, an even more rabid variety of California expatriate lives in those parts, including Mark Fuhrman, of OJ Simpson trial notoriety, who insisted in his memoir that he really isn’t a racist.
    The thing is, the political and philosophical chasm that supposedly exists between Ashland faux country folk and faux country folk in the Republican hinterlands of Klamath Falls, Grants Pass and other “unenlightened” cities is practically meaningless because their residents lead the same delusional lifestyle.
    On drives between Eureka and Ashland, I’ve been amazed at the steady stream of rush-hour traffic from Grants Pass to every intermediate point through Cave Junction, and over 238 from Medford to the village of Applegate. It would be one thing to see that traffic volume within the Rogue Valley, but these are fifteen- to thirty-mile stretches of Bumfuckville that are functionally bedroom communities for their county seats. There are similar settlement patterns in every direction from Medford and Klamath Falls, along the Klamath River between I-5 and Happy Camp, and to some extent in pretty much every part of rural Oregon except for protected areas and totally useless shitholes like southern Malheur County. Really, almost the whole country has a significant amount of this idiocy, but a much larger percentage of the workforce lives in this fashion in rural areas than in urban areas.
    When I hear people express surprise that the Bayshore Freeway or the Schuylkill Expressway is congested, I can’t help but think, “no shit! This is a big-ass city!” On the other hand, when I see upwards of twenty cars a minute on a twenty-mile stretch of rural highway that serves maybe eight thousand local residents, and when the traffic volume drops by 90% from Wilderville to O’Brien, rough arithmetic tells me that a huge percentage of the working population in these places commutes dozens of miles to Grants Pass. The sight of the CJ short bus tells me that Josephine County has nothing on SEPTA for viable alternatives to driving everywhere.
    The political animosity between these places turns into theater of the absurd, with rural Ashland lefties and Applegate dittoheads glaring at each other over trivialities like their avowed positions on global climate change and the war in Iraq, even though the only difference between their lifestyles is one of degree. Of course, the Ashland critique usually involves some grumbling about tacky rednecks downvalley with their wasteful crew cab pickups, because Subarus are just totally groovy. It’s like a gutter drunk who drinks Thunderbird straight from the bottle savaging his neighbor for drinking Franzia straight from the box.
    Your point about distance from supply lines is spot on, and one that is lost on people who insist that NYC, LA, the Bay Area, etc. will dissolve into utter disorder while the hinterlands survive. Cities with extensive rail infrastructure, and especially those with ports, can maintain supply lines much more easily and with a much lower energy input per capita than Bumfuckville thirty miles up a county road from an abandoned single-track rail line. They also have the economies of scale needed to support specialists, so that the local brain trust amounts to more than a schoolmarm, a preacher, a moonshiner and and a country doctor. If supply lines break down, Bumfuckville will be the first place to go Medieval; in more than a few places, it’s already well on its way.
    An impressive thing about Ashland is that I have never been to a large city whose political priorities are so otherworldly. Even in San Francisco politicians get heat from below when Muni breaks down; voters in Ashland are such dreamers and navelgazing twits that they don’t demand so much as weekend bus service, full street lighting or adequate traffic signaling.

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  906. Eleuthero November 28, 2011 at 3:34 am #

    Another excellent bit of “shaggy dog” humor about the hinterlands of extreme NorCal and Southern Oregon, AMR!!!
    However, the message you delivered through parody applies to Bumfuckvilles all over the West. In Jim’s pioneering “Long Emergency” book, he says the Intermountain West has a breed of “yuppie hyper-suburbanite” which is amusing yet true. Many of these folks fancy that they’re “close to nature” types yet their typical “nature outings” often involve driving an ATV a hundred miles with their bikes strapped to the front. This is as radically stupid as driving a Chevy Suburban to an anti-smog rally.
    Moreover, since they ALL live in ARID zones (from Idaho and Montana down to Arizona and New Mexico), the land really isn’t arable. These places are THE least sustainable lands in the USA yet the inhabitants, stereotypically, fancy themselves as America’s most rugged individualists … the most in touch with “Mother Nature” … of any Americans from sea to shining sea.
    Even the GREAT PLAINS, with about 5-7 more inches of rain, on average, than the Intermountain West, was a government EXPERIMENT. People had to be lured to Kansas and Oklahoma by government subsidies. Then the Dust Bowl hit. Turns out the the low/mid-20 inch annual rainfalls were just not quite enough, especially with the occasional years when only 10 or 15 inches fell. Bottom line is that the truly arable parts of America are the places that get 30 or more inches of rain per year AND have large swaths of FLAT LAND.
    This eliminates the ENTIRE West except for the narrow strip of Oregon and Washington from the Cascades to the Pacific Ocean. When the burgeoning water crises really hit hard, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, West Texas, and the bottom 80% of California are HOSED. Just today in a local Bay Area newspaper there was a news item buried in the interior of the newspaper about NOAA engaging in CLOUD SEEDING to increase NorCal rainfall by up to 20%. Personally, I’ll be looking at the Schylkill River from a new residence before this shit gets TOO serious.
    E.

  907. Eleuthero November 28, 2011 at 3:42 am #

    A short addendum for AMR about Ashland … they’re loonier than the Berkeley City Council. Berkeley, remember, is a “nuclear free zone” and the city which “Thinks locally and acts globally”. Of course, you already know that they can’t even synchronize stoplights in their towns while wanting to get their cities involved in brokering foreign peace treaties.
    Ashland is where all the well-to-do California liberal retirees go so that they can keep pretending that they’re egalitarians while driving land prices through the roof without creating any other economic activity. They are an embarrassment to true progressivism.
    E.

  908. Pucker November 28, 2011 at 4:04 am #

    Whatever happened to Bradley Manning?
    According to the Internet, Manning’s “…article 32 hearing will be held on December 16 in Fort Meade, Maryland.”

  909. AMR November 28, 2011 at 4:53 am #

    Speaking of fuel supply, I forgot to mention that the locals rarely do the math to ensure a sustainable supply of that grooviest of fuels, firewood. My uncle and aunt burn a shitload of it, and about half of their current supply is madrone that was clearcut for a road construction project near Wolf Creek, sixty miles away. That’s a peak oil no-can-do, with miniscule to negative EROEI and opportunity costs given the burly sawyers needed to cut the wood without chainsaws and the pack animals, convicts or backpacking hippies needed to transport it.
    Some people around here, including my uncle and aunt, own enough forestland and have enough stewardship skill to conceivably supply enough firewood for all of their cooking and heating needs. On the other hand, our immediate neighbors include a sixty-year-old who has been squatting in a shack on dear departed Mother’s former property for thirty years and a dissipated alcoholic in his late fifties who has a service-connected disability pension because he got his brains scrambled by chemical warfare agents. Both of these fellows are unemployable, and the squatter has been too improvident to lay up firewood for himself for about a decade.
    My uncle and aunt have decent to cordial relations with all of their neighbors, but they have to serve as buffers and intermediaries for the rest, most of whom hate one another’s guts. The idea of this crowd coming together for anything but a raging bitchfest is a fantasy.
    These dudes are special cases, but a lot of people around Ashland are well-intentioned but useless. They occasionally show up at the farm, where they mainly get in the way, screw up basic tasks due to haste and inattention, and cause as much work for their supervisors (i.e., often me) as they actually do.
    Given the stone nuts paranoia and half-cocked individualism that pervades hardcore survivalist rhetoric, especially in the Mountain West, I don’t foresee many avowed survivalists really becoming self-sufficient or, ironically, even surviving lean times. In contrast to the farmers and ranchers that I’ve known, these guys distinguish themselves by their abrasiveness, petty grudges, easy provocation, belligerence and general inability to play well with others. (I call them “guys” intentionally; there seem to be fewer women among them than there are among active farmers and ranchers, and many fewer survivalist nut women than there are women actively engaged in farming and ranching communities.)
    These are not the sort of people who are readily integrated into a farming, ranching, logging, mining or fishing community. Every holler has its eccentrics, but these guys are not harmless “local color” like Garrison Keillor’s cowboys and Norwegian bachelor farmers. The best of this lot seem to be chronic nuisances to those who have to interact with them, and the worst are outright menaces. When the shit hits the fan, they are as likely as anyone to be killed by their saner neighbors in genuine self-defense.

  910. AMR November 28, 2011 at 5:41 am #

    Most of that wasn’t even parody, but unexaggerated, deadpan description of what I’ve seen.
    California’s great curse is that its most arable land in terms of temperature and soil quality is also some of its least arable land in terms of rainfall amounts and patterns. Much of the state is so bountiful under irrigation and close enough to major rivers, however, that I’m not ready to give up on California agriculture entirely, although I do believe that it should be dramatically scaled back in places. More of the state’s farmland should be converted to dryland crops, including prickly pear. Prickly pear is a hardy, fruitful cactus, very well suited to low-elevation semideserts and deserts. Only in hellishly dry areas like Las Vegas does it need irrigation.
    I agree completely about the High Plains, which is clearly best suited to the management of an intact prairie, and, if the current drought doesn’t attenuate soon, West Texas. There seems to be more regional variation and variability in precipitation in much of the Mountain West, however, so I’d say that some level of irrigated agriculture should remain feasible near major rivers, provided that the farmers and water managers remain adaptable and levelheaded. Unfortunately, based on the history of water management in the West, this is far from assured.
    Wyoming, with its small population and tradition of relatively unambitious land improvements, is probably the best model for other Mountain West states. Nevada and Arizona have so far screwed the pooch. Nevada and Arizona should be on par with Montana or Wyoming in terms of population, and Las Vegas and Phoenix should be on par with Barstow.
    I don’t think all is lost for the Southwest, but maybe I just have a narrower definition of “screwed” than you have.

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  911. Alexandra November 28, 2011 at 6:01 am #

    Well its not looking good for gold, for investors that hopped on at the $1,700 mark with the financial blogosphere promising an easy gain of $2000 per ounce come Xmas… well I know of at least one chappie who put in £500k worth bet on gain at that rate, and now?… (OUCH)
    Like wise shares with blue-chips, which are still way down… so for any of those thinking of future (imminent) retirement plans (MEGA OUCH)…
    And it’s affected me in the sense that back in October I was being teased back into an offer of some London based more regular 9-7pm work in the hot-bed zone that would have been a start-up ad agency creative dept, but the group of key playa’s – a dozen or so 40-60 something’s – well they reasonably baulked at the aggressive level of personal securities banks were asking for on a snatch back basis (here in Blighty)…. to bank roll a monthly £25k cash flow… till the fees started to flow in.
    So this new ‘independent’ start up became a no go… and everyone’s once more run for cover under the wing of a more slowly withering existing corporate. That manages to get by through operating free intern staff for 40% of its turnover. ‘Arbeit mach frei’… well only while their parents can afford to keep the subsidy active… this is not a policy I can condone, so I passed on life-belting in.
    Seasonal cheer anyone? Keep calm and carry on the real mantra of our day.
    So I’ve decided to stick with my current agenda of global yacht crew/deliveries and sailing… Turkey next most likely then Oz and the pacific maybe…?
    My prediction for the Eurozone? Will be that very soon, the next few weeks in fact you’ll see the ECB step in and write that ?ber cheque in order to stymie the crisis in southern europe. In exchange for complete fiscal control over any of those PIIGS that will have no choice but to suck on its teat…
    (So that blue bus for now will stop, open its doors collect a few bods, and keep driving on…)
    And for any of you yanks/CFN’ers that did enjoy Turkey last Thursday, I hope what you’ve harvested this year does bear fruit for you all during 2012, the doomist’s epoch for Armageddon ensuing…
    Me… I confidently predict I’ll still be yacht sailing, maybe Aegyd’s Shipman – which would be nice!
    Be seeing you…

  912. AMR November 28, 2011 at 6:33 am #

    Actually, there’s a lot that I don’t know about Berkeley, although not much surprises me about it; I only ride through it on BART. I’ve never had occasion to set foot in the city, and I don’t particularly care to given all the bizarre bullshit that emanates from its rarefied precincts. There are some women who might be able to lure me there for a date, but otherwise, I’m not planning to go.
    One thing that I will say in Berkeley’s defense, however, in addition to its possibly being saner than Ashland as you suggest, is this: if you don’t like it, you can get on BART and be the fuck outta there within twenty minutes. In fact, BART’s very existence within Berkeley is infrastructure enough to keep the city from being a total logistical clusterfuck.
    This goes back to the whininess of Ashland’s Bay Area refugees: they deliberately left a region whose main rapid transit system has service speeds of up to 80 mph and headways of no more than twenty minutes, and that is currently slated for an extension that will seamlessly connect Pittsburg to downtown San Jose.
    Since I’ve had a generally easy time getting around the Bay Area on BART, SamTrans, VTA, Muni, Amtrak and Caltrain, all the bitching that I hear about traffic in the Bay Area drives me up a fucking wall. It’s not as though there’s no alternative to driving everywhere. With rare exceptions, e.g. Critical Mass purposely obstructing Market Street in order to be provocative and avant garde, I have absolutely no sympathy for the bellyaching.
    Re: Ashland’s liberal retirees: exactly. Just as with country bumpkins pretending to be superior to other country bumpkins because they drive Outbacks instead of F350s, the California refugees up here pretend to be oh-so-superior to those who fled to Northern Idaho, even though they left for almost precisely the same reasons, minus some of the racism. Like Fuhrman and friends, they’re haughty, hostile to the public sphere, self-absorbed and borderline antisocial. I would much, much rather talk to schizophrenics in Inglewood about planes that may or may not be approaching LAX and buses that may or may not be going downtown than constantly humor Ashlanders by listening politely to their hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance.
    As my uncle says, “Ashland: where rich liberals go to die.”

  913. Neon Vincent November 28, 2011 at 8:50 am #

    Oregon, we don’t tan here, we rust.

  914. Neon Vincent November 28, 2011 at 8:52 am #

    Should have put that in quotes. I’m not from Oregon; I’m originally from California. It’s just that’s one of the things Oregonians said to discourage Californians from coming up there.

  915. ozone November 28, 2011 at 9:43 am #

    ….And now, back to the matter at hand.
    So, is it a truly organized attempt to return the world to feudalism, or a loose confederation of supremely greedy and power-hungry ultra-elite elite engaging in colossal [world-wide] ass-banditry?
    Go ahead, make a guess. After all, as we all know, nothing of any note happened this week.
    “Sovereign” debt?
    PCR:
    “If any of the European sovereign debt fails, US financial institutions that issued swaps or unfunded guarantees against the debt are on the hook for large sums that they do not have. The reputation of the US financial system probably could not survive its default on the swaps it has issued. Therefore, the failure of European sovereign debt would renew the financial crisis in the US, requiring a new round of bailouts and/or a new round of Federal Reserve “quantitative easing,” that is, the printing of money in order to make good on irresponsible financial instruments, the issue of which enriched a tiny number of executives.”
    German bond auction failure; Goldman alumni everywhere; hmmmmm…
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29823.htm

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  916. progress2conserve November 28, 2011 at 9:50 am #

    “Are there 700,000 babies born each year in USA?
    Mostly to immigrants and illegals?”
    -antisoak-
    No, there are 1,000,000 LEGAL immigrants (of all ages) allowed into the United States every year.
    The population of the United States increases by 1% annually – roughly 3,000,000/year.
    So there are 2,000,000 babies born every year – disproportionately to immigrant families, although I don’t have the exact proportions.
    It’s surprising how few people actually understand the ramifications of these numbers.
    —————————–
    E, AMR, and others – good discussion of city vs rural lifestyles, rainfall patterns, etc.
    It looks like the future will find Americans crowded more and more into cities – which is OK, if that’s a deliberate individual choice.
    I like cities, myself – as a visitor.
    But if the power goes out and the food trucks stop running into any particular city –
    I hope to be far, far away from there.
    And hopefully, I can make it to these rounded little mountains up above Atlanta.
    Probably because of demographics – most of our full-time residents have some blue-collar skills and will be able to put things back together.
    Plus, it rains enough to keep things alive up here. At least it does for now –
    Which takes us back to that economic growth driving climate change – and why it is good to slow the growth down.

  917. DeeJones November 28, 2011 at 10:24 am #

    Someone above posted that I seem to be overly concerned with Vlads sex life. Not really, but I am concerned with his overt anger towards women in general.
    You see, in showing his comments to someone I know, they see someone who appears to harbor hostility to women due to some rejection by a woman or women he once wanted.
    Vlad also comments on his perceived inequities in divorce decrees, but does not state that he has ever been married, much less divorced. I assume he has not, as I just can’t quite see the kind of women that would marry him, much less breed with him.
    But there is a deeper problem here in that if he is not having any kind of social or other intercourse with women, this could lead to a more serious issue.
    Now Vlad has admited to masturbation, and its likely that his only form of sexual release is by this method & porn. But we all know that that is not the same as real sex, oral or otherwise.
    This leave Mr Vlad few options. One is prostitution. Here he may be able to fulfill his fantasies of the Idea woman, or his other fantasies of being superior, buy purchasing the services of women of color.
    The other more serious issue is that he may resort to rape. This is something that should be considered, as it could eventually lead to his crossing the line to killing.
    Lets hope not, and that Vlad gets his rocks off in a normal fashion instead of chopping up women of color in his basement.
    The other big issue with vlad is his racial inferiority complex. He has to feel superior to persons of color for some reason, perhaps he was passed up in a promotion in some job by a person of color, and has harbored resentment ever since.
    But don’t you see that this is a failure on his part? Racial hatred leads to racial violence at some point. Has Vlad ever been the target of this?
    I know someone who has, and its terrifying to be attacked just because of the color of your skin, for no other reason at all.
    So please Vlad, do not cross the line to violence.
    Thats all for now,
    :/

  918. anti soak November 28, 2011 at 2:59 pm #

    I dont wonder about yr sex life..or his

  919. hjghjetcx November 29, 2011 at 1:38 pm #

    2008 years, is bound to be extraordinary … …
    attention May 12 Sichuan earthquake
    the Games
    attention inferior milk powder incident, blood boiling a
    Yan Zhao door let us know whether the for any reason, consciously or unconsciously, people have for their own ignorance and fallacy to pay the price, no one instead.

    we are making a fuss every day, all tangled in the space of text written every day that graduated within the foreseeable future, and shortly went their separate ways. You finally found, in those years, those who, uh, Ye Hao, resentment worth mentioning, bickering, and sarcastic, offensive, ambiguous, follow you, ignore you, slick, not muffled throat, and hate kill, and nasty vomiting, in short, all the time that McCain would be more ugly than ugly, in fact, is actually really very, very good.

    2009 September, we are finally on the night and think of the university, there are some disappointed, some proud, some fear, some relieved, some of the excitement
    school, the university began to curse those who say a better life brothers and sisters.
    do not know enough or we do not know how, anyway,Doudounes Moncler, the play is played, the content of life is to sleep in the dormitory, playing cards, the Internet.
    University campus turned out to be so remote and desolate, the original bustling we used to end a hard day and night high school, and limitless began to fight a bitter heart.
    said University of boring, but look at those senior graduates, they still miss the college life. Therefore, it is still holding off. Many people want to live high school. In fact, we can do is pay close attention to the present. ** With your own shop and wanted to do. Buckle down to all competent.

    each person must have a variety of unanswered questions, all kinds of confusion troubles us every day. Do not hurt anyone, this is the bottom line, with all your life to find your answer!

    we started really miss our friends and partners of those who accompany their journey through the 20-year life of people, primary school, junior high, high school, his whole life to know how many people? Really too small, since the greater the higher the cost and people get along, running will become increasingly difficult, or old, good friends, we pick up the phone, we send people to far the most sincere greetings.
    feeling is bored and depressed.
    six months later. Song of the Month less and less, less and less a good movie, reading books do not know what to see. Quarters, cable, and accompanied by the computer, you always spend the night in the fall in the habit, or, in the habit of the fall?

    Maybe someone around you has begun to study in a foreign country’s northern drift of life, you probably envy, they will go with you to see the world, the author is drifting north, and, like millions of you, homesickness cut, go with the flow, to survive in the face of adversity. No friends care about your identity, no friends care about your education, the world does not need to know where we are separated by a step away and far apart are the same, these worldly possessions, what appearance of latitude and longitude important? While our generation every corner of the world, but we are getting closer in fact to go, right close twinkling of an eye is the horizon, immediate horizon is close by.

    they eat a lot of pain, you can not imagine experiencing the difficulties and suffering, compared with them you will feel your loneliness and emptiness is not worth mentioning, even though they never speak, even though they tell you knowledge is interesting and good life of peace. In fact, they just do not want you worried and upset it. They need to care about the enemy, even if a word will make them warm for several days. Do not be afraid embarrassed, embarrassed like hot milk will be placed above the conjunctiva long as the following very warm milk, like, more to ask, no one’s heart is stone, your heart is the meat look, everyone’s story is unique, you are no exception. If you know such people, a lot of care about them!

    want to play, but we know the past of their own, said bye-bye, and start life again, all re-shuffle; want to learn, and always feel that learning does not go. Feel that they should be sensible point, it may be that is not sensible. In the same year, some people have to work for several years, some still in high school and work for their dream (Come on! We can all support you!) … …

    Our days and nights, year after year to discuss what is goodwill, what is love, what love is, in the end their love or like, is like and like love, understand and confused. Day ask yourself, is like a little bit? Or love more. This will never answer. Torture his own, it seems to understand and not understand. After so many years during read so so many shifting alliances, betrayal and tolerance, we found that we still do not understand anything.

    dead person’s job to do when we can not make money when the house is assigned; when we can make money when they can not afford a house has been found; when we did not find the object when the people are talking about the heart; When we find an object, when people are talking gold. … … We believe that sometime in the world is love. When people bombarded the unbridled utilitarianism of our generation, comfort, ease, worships money and vanity, we choose silence, although some go down, we will stubbornly keep his heart that point very precious fragile innocence. We will do our best to make money, to live and better able to pay, but our hearts know that we will never be reduced to abject poverty of the people left.

    our generation is very lucky, we never had to live in a rich life, but we are too far away from the mid 90’s culture and ethos of corruption, we understand our responsibility and the ideal , although we all unexamined, muddle, but we are doing something serious, when not confused. No matter how illusory

    world, experience is never empty before, it is the most fair God give each person the most abundant wealth, whether happy or sad, fun, or ordinary. We are confused, but not to escape, lost but not retreat, we will not hesitate to go, whether it be in front of the number of wind and rain. Even the darkness comes, we will hope for tomorrow.

    20 years, we are busy moving forward, it really should go back to their own path. Utilitarian education for many years of hard training, we stumble bumper all the way to come over and found completely fooled. We have successfully passed the exam again and again, do not know why I finally passed the examination of these accounts from the life of this so-called best students just kept to themselves to meet the paralysis of his vanity, while he, himself, but that really has not been there before, did not grow too. I can not study any course at the time to help me solve the distress, then the integral equation that every school is for what?

    school good or bad, then the school has a well-known talent and scum, the schools do not have a well-known versatile, morality and intelligence, wealth and success is not the target person, not a reason diploma, professional is not the point, really important is the value of your own confirmation, experience, insights on life, their own growth. Finished college, no matter what your future plans, longing for what kind of life, do what you will clearly, plainly, you will succeed, after a long way to go, we can not ever be too wrong!

    regardless of age, if your mind and body caught in between the 8, 9, was given too much power and toughness, you and us is this the same mood, we are 8.5! ! ! We learn what is beneficial to us, as a warning to others. We are steadfast diligence, responsibility and ability, yet innocence, without losing enthusiasm. Set the atmosphere in one, impartial, independent in the past does not rely on the future, the
    meaning of life in contemporary, comfortable and natural, our wings, will Shenqingruyan, smooth and slick! !

    Perhaps now, we found that our parents with a lot of money to buy training, tuition, pay sponsorship, basic necessities. Some of our guilt, we have no excuse. Write this stuff commemorate grow up, much like a running account, I know that if someone reading this course, it must be peers. You may

    years younger teens may be large differences are not great great, I hope all of this generation have the sincere sympathy, you are not a person in advance! You are not alone! There are many, many people and you have the same experience, same idea, same confusion, they like you for their own dreams and hard work! ! ! (I love animation, I thought not many aficionados, but the network to separate the sit thousands of miles of **)

    I know you have sad, you have bored, lonely, when you have, You have shaken when you leave here your voice to your story now!! even if only the meaning of the word for others is immeasurable (I see one, I have moved to). Let others also found that there are so many people support him the same, so that others can get the truth from your encouragement. You will get more people understanding and support. If you insist on not going to give up on themselves, before we read through this article it, go take a look at everyone’s reply it, believe in yourself and everything will be fine!! Intention to turn this article you know, it does not author, no language, because —- this is your story! !

    Please close your eyes, open our hearts, all meant to take the hint ~ ~ together, let us hand in hand, went together! !

    us far apart, went their separate ways. . . You will suddenly feel a little sad, a little sadness, but also a bit nostalgic … … … …
    cut tangled emotions, as well as primary school to university, 12 years, so many people, so many things, so passionate, so much madness and sadness of the day. Some people passing through the. . . Some people miss. . . Some people also forget how. . . . . I thought college was a relief, but now think it is a responsibility. People always want to grow up in this period will encounter a variety of joys and sorrows, happy sad, get the acceptance letter from that moment on you should know that the family, only occasionally stop to their harbor, one day to leave.

    be remembered, forget the forgotten. Changeable, and accept change. Over the years, we have reduced the performance, life and love them, we inadvertently hurt others, but also deeply hurt by others too, received a lot of grievances, we gritted his teeth, too many tears flow, to the wind dry, spread over too much sweat, the earth as evidence. To prove this simply could not personally simple truth, we have devoted too much of his youth.

    you want to know that he is not forgotten, but remember you well. Have read this sentence: When you can no longer have, the only thing you can do is make myself not to forget.

    to commemorate the Memorial!!!

    we have experienced too much, feel too strong, way too flat, we are destined to be more mature!!!

    in This is difficult to understand the times, we were silent, we will gradually make the world understand that as long as we are, there will never be pure in this world, there is understanding, there is a dream!!!

    who know my heart , that I am lazy. I do not know me, that I want anything else? Bloom again, only really. Destined to meet, missed hand in hand!

    Anyway, to complete the inner growth, acceptance of gift of all life, struggle, my brothers and sisters!!!
    Believe that our tomorrow will be better! ! !

  920. hjghjsxrt November 30, 2011 at 11:40 am #

    ! !

    introductory phrase: the last few days so hot ah ~ ~ ~ children’s shoes are ready for it, what a hot day referred, we need a bird joke to us freezing to death, frozen birds, Nima , Zhendi birds freeze to death, do not explain their own look.

    even the world in addition to sleep .. Well are unreliable.

    1, Why silkworms lot of money? ==> Because it will cocoon (frugality)

    2, Why do rabbits do not marry zebra? ==> Because my mother said the tattoo is not a boy rabbit

    3, when can be unified? ==> The time to buy instant noodles (unified instant noodles)

    4, monkeys do not like what line? ==> Parallel lines (because there is no intersection )

    5, chocolate and tomato fight, why is the chocolate to win? ==> Well as chocolate bars

    6, sharks eat green beans what happens? ==> Into a green bean

    7, matches burning backward to the hospital, into what? ==> Cotton

    8, Lin is how dead it? ==> Killed the (heaven a forest sister)

    9, a pig, said: ==> Chocolate

    10, stabbed potato dumplings fatal knife, and how it? ==> Becomes red bean paste (kill) package of

    Sorry, you are not my dishes ~

    11, what animal love on the wall? ==> Seal (News)

    12, fox why the often wrestling? ==> Because the fox is very cunning (foot slide)

    13,4 individuals in the house to play mahjong, to why the police took five people ==> because they beat the people called

    14, when you love soft drinks? ==> In the lonely time (when you are alone you will want to soft drinks)

    15, there is an egg tea drink tea, and later how it going? ==> The results it becomes boiled eggs

    16, there is a male deer, which I walked on, getting faster and faster, and finally how to? ==> It into a highway

    17, one day mung bean suicide jumped from the 5th floor, a lot of blood, how it? ==> Becomes red beans

    18, why the aircraft will not fly so high hit the stars? ==> Because the stars will flash ah

    19, corn wanted to pursue fashion, to the hot head, and results of how it? ==> Into a popcorn

    20, what the rats to walk with two legs? ==> Mickey Mouse

    I do not get up, do not get up ~ ~ ~: P

    21, what the duck walk with two legs? ==> All the ducks are walking on two legs (not to say Donald Duck)

    22, Miss now doing good business to do, and why? ==> Avian Influenza

    23, what kind of people can not work in gas stations? ==> Glib (oil gun slip out of) the people

    24, dumplings are boys or girls? ==> Boys foreskin because there dumplings

    25, wearing a golden dress who ==> a shock (DRC) who

    26, a bee sting on the calendar ==> wind (Bee) and Japan Korea (Calendar)

    27, a bear came to ==> come prepared (with bear to)

    28, mobile phones can not fall into the toilet ==> missed (wet)

    29, ten sheep, nine squat pen ==> cadence (a sheep squatting wrong)

    30, how to make the quiet sparrow? ==> Press it a bit (silent)

    you talk ~ ~ What you want Well Well What are you ~

    31, transparent sword is the sword? ==> Invisible (Sword)

    32, African cannibal chiefs what to eat, A: eating, that chief to be a vegetarian it? ==> Eat vegetable

    33, why are not dinosaurs? ==> Make movies of dinosaurs

    34, white like his brother, know why? ==> I really like white

    35, ran the Songhua River to swim with an egg, how? ==> Into egg

    36, one with eggs went to Shandong, how? ==> Becomes Lu (halogen) eggs

    37, there is an egg homeless, how? ==> Into a wild eggs

    38, there is an egg careful not to fall on the road, fell to the ground, how? ==> Become a lead (down) play

    39, there is an egg go to the flowers to go, how? ==> Become a rising star

    40, there is an egg to the Dead Sea to swim, how? ==> Becomes Ultraman

    are trapped into a kind of referral, Well, first photographed here today.

    41, Xiao Ming and Xiao Hua to the beach game jokes, jokes finished after they die, why? ==> The tsunami (laughs) a

    42, why the man does not go out? ==> Because a stranger out to change the

    43, you do not see why the second child of God? ==> Secret (Chicken) not disclose

    44, Why are only the tip of iceberg? ==> Because the other corner was the Titanic severing

    45, how to make duck will not fly away? ==> Insert a wing to it (impassable)

    46,Cheap Evisu Jeans, someone did not call? ==> Tink (meaning seamless phone calls)

    47, Majiajue has privately said to me: ==> Because it is a hammer

    48, Chang E flying to the moon why to hurry? ==> Hou Yi shot a 9, even if he can not stand ah god

    49, black, white, small yellow, red four-plane, may I ask who airsick, will spit? ==> Rabbits (spit)

    50, there is a fat man jumping from a tall building, how kind of results? ==> Become a dead fat man

    Nima ~ Can not you

    sultry ..

    51, two men fell into the trap, the dead person is called the dead, the living called? ==> Help

    52, elephant skin, skins, lion’s skin which the worst? ==> Elephantiasis (eraser)

    53, cloth and paper afraid of? ==> Not (Brazzaville), afraid of ten thousand, only the (paper) just in case

    54, following the appearance of the guests, but we are proud of Chinese men, is a singer, guess who? ==> Ancient giant chicken (Leo)

    55, which song the lyrics of ==> The Moon Represents My Heart (Coco Lee I love you how deep)

    56, Harry Potter Why live in the light bulb? ==> Because Harry Potter is a wizard (tungsten filament)

    57, what the unicorn is best to eat? ==> Ice Cream

    58, what the unicorn ran the fastest? ==> Michelin (tires)

    59, constipation ago (playing a foreign star name) ==> Stallone (feces too strong)

    60, cities and countryside, the river that place relatively Chung anxious? ==> The country, because the rural river rush (fratricidal)

    ooo, ooo ~ ~ where are you my dear

    61, A, B, C, D, and that a cool word? ==> D (G-string)

    62, there is a room, pigeons hidden in there ==> I sing on the roof (hidden) with your song (pigeon)

    63, 0:00 to do what the whole thing? ==> Reactive, because the Provisional (zero), reactive

    64, the police, gangsters, soldiers, that person most lean? ==> Rogue (rogue professor – lean)

    65, there is an idiot plane, the plane lost out toilet removed, guess why? ==> Because he is an idiot

    66, Aladdin has several brothers? ==> Three (A Allah, Allah B, Allah C)

    67, a group of eunuchs (another version of a group of women) in the chat, guess a phrase ==> nonsense (no chicken talk)

    68, a heart worth? ==> 1 million (wholeheartedly)

    69, the sun, moon, stars, which is dumb? ==> The stars (the stars do not speak – Lupin)

    69, pencil name? ==> Shaw! Cut (Shaw) pencil!

    70, What color is most likely to imitate? Red (mills) imitation

    ash gray machine

    hey … later! ! !

    71, who have enough to eat a meal to help you add? ==> Dragon Well, because the dragon in Tim (days)! !

    72, a dog traveling in the desert, the result is dead, how he died? ==> He is suffocated, because there is no desert telegraph pole pee

    a dog traveling in the desert, found a telephone pole, the result was suffocated, and why? ==> Point on the mast close to the

    a dog traveling in the desert, found a telephone pole, anything not posted above, the result was suffocated, and why? ==> A lot of puppy in the queue, do not wait

    a dog traveling in the desert, found a telephone pole, anything not posted above, is also routed to a queue, the result was suffocated, and why? ==> Since the latter are two beautiful dogs MM, he was embarrassed

    a dog traveling in the desert, found a telephone pole, anything not posted above, is also routed to a queue, not the dog behind the MM, the results he was suffocated, and why? ==> It is to pull the stool, not with paper

    a dog traveling in the desert, found a telephone pole, anything not posted above, is also routed to a queue, and no dog behind MM,, but also with the paper, it still suffocated, and why? ==> It constipation worried to death

    73, wolves, tigers and lions who play the game will be eliminated? ==> Wolf, because – Momotaro (out of Wolf)

    74, which for the most Qianbian historical figures? ==> Su Wu sheep north beach (by Haibian)

    75, which figures in history to run the fastest? ==> Cao Cao (Cao Cao Cao Cao said, went to)

    76, cars fly, please guess a drink ==> Coffee (Car Fly)

    77, used to have only bread, ate a meatball, how it? ==> Change buns

    78, Qingshui Who gave it? ==> Aha (

    79, with a white and a black cat, white cat fell into the water, the black cat to save it up, said something white on black? ==> Meow

    80, Bob’s grandfather while brushing your teeth, while singing, I ask why? ==> Brush the dentures

    can not eat the amount of … ah, eat meat meat ~ ~

    81, the stars have multiple? ==> Eight grams (starbucks Starbucks)

    82, tw is part of China (Chinese herbal medicine to fight a name) ==> Angelica

    83, Jade sneezing (to play a city name) ==> Tianjin

    84, why the geese to fly south to the fall? ==> If you go too slow

    85, farmer raised 10 head of cattle, only a 19 angle, and why? ==> There is a rhino

    86, fat is quite well known diver, can one day he stood on the springboard, but it can not jump, this is why? ==> No water because of the following

    87, a taxi on the highway to normal traffic, and did not violate any traffic rules, he was a police officer to the bar, why? ==> The police to take a rental

    88, what chickens do not have wings? ==> Frog

    89, something neither the effort to play and very comfortable? ==> Asleep

    90, the date and effective date of manufacture is on the same day the product? ==> Newspapers

    God ~ ~ amount to many, many daughter ~ ~

    91, bookstores can not buy any books? ==> Suicide note

    92, best-selling book? ==> Secretary

    93, the spider fell in love with butterflies, butterfly, but rejected it, and why? ==> My mom all day on the Internet is not good mix

    94. Panda in love with deer, affection Shique rejected, and why? ==> Deer timidly said: my mom, wearing sunglasses are juvenile delinquents

    95, who did not go to the zoo to meet? ==> Lion (Lion because of

    96, fat litters (to play a place name) ==> Yugoslavia (hard dead Musharraf)

    97, the toilet (a Hong Kong female artist to play the name) ==> Karen (reason: Mo smell)

    98, grandfather, father, brother, who listened to her mother’s words will shed tears? ==> Grandpa (every night) think of my mother, shining tears

    99, there are two bees very much in love, and later was married to the mother bee spider and why? ==> Because this female bees love the Internet

    100, better than during the day, night, sad (to play a building) ==> single-plank bridge

    These are my referral

    drop ~ ~ ~ O (? _ ?) O haha ??~

    101, star of the entertainment which is stuttering? ==> Fan Fan (Fan Fan because …:

    102, if you have a car, Xiao Ming is the driver, passengers red, then the car is this? ==>

    103, Kirin to the North Pole into what? ==> Ice Kirin (ice cream) ah!

    104, McDonald’s and KFC, which a little older? ==> KFC ah! Because KFC’s image was his grandfather, and McDonald’s is the uncle … …

    105, Xiao Ming to cross the bridge, opposite, there were two ghosts, a red ghost, a green ghost. And Xiao Ming had a gun, and only two bullets. To be killed out of the green ghost, red ghost to two rounds. It is to kill the red ghost? Or green ghost it? ==> Green ghost (see the green because the red ghosts ghost dead, pale, scared face, green, green becomes a ghost, and then shot and killed it)

    106, a monthly salary of 1200 yuan can buy a car? answer: Vice chess had to buy (inside the four cars, there are four BMW it)

    107, on the ground with a 50, a 100, which would you pick sheets? answer: Of course, two are picked chant

    108. we used to have rabbits, it is two steps forward, then back to, and take two steps forward, then back to, and why? ==> it like ah

    109. Faye Wong sang a legend who is listening? ==> Us, because

    110. Chinese history, the children who most? … … The answer is Gang. (Because my dad is Li)

    111.26 letters left to go in several ET ==> left 21 because ET (extraterrestrial) is to go by UFO.

    the Editor: Oh Hey, Nima, and these really cool joke, ha ha ha … chicken East, hehe ~ ~ ~ Hey, what cold to you, happy with everyone sharing, and quickly share it.

    [space high popularity of the ultimate secret is now open! Speed ??Click to view]

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  921. yldrkiac December 1, 2011 at 2:42 pm #

    County to go to room 6 August .2010 County Mount Temple in the room housing County Industrial Park held the first Book of the file section . . . .

  922. rqojantifz December 5, 2011 at 3:11 am #

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  923. sxhbgbdhmc December 5, 2011 at 9:08 pm #

    Chi ? only ? ? ?? ? Tong Mang ? Haochi ? Niechi ? only ? ? ? Gan ? ? ? ? gating ? ? gating ? ? like Ju ? ? Dan Post ? gating ? ? birds ? ? ? ? ? Hua ? ? Guang ? ? ? ? Post horseleech ? Qiuju ? ? Hua ? eye of an ax ravioli ? Ming Xu ? Mi Yun ? ? She ? posted ? ? ? chisel ? ?? ? ? ? ? Post Guang ? ? Kuang ? ? ? ? overstep Ji ? Post ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ?? ? ?? ? Tong Mang ? Hao ? ? Tiao bluefish ? ? Wren ? posted ? ? Kong Wren ? like Wen ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? Litan ? Men ? ? only regression ? ? Hua ? only Dan ? Kun ? ? ? Quan ? ? Wren ? ? ? ? only ? ? ? Dan ? ?? ? ? Miao ? ? ? swallow swallow ? phosphine ? ? Li Wei Chi ? prison ? Pianpangchi ? ? regression ? ? Ju ? ? bluefish ? Li ? ? ? Bodhisattva ? posted ? ? fed Gan ? ? Yun ? ? ? ? posted ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Nam horseleech ? ? Guang ? ?? ? only ? ? Miao ? ? ? ? ? Liju ? Hui ? ? ?? ? skeletal Ju ? ? bluefish ? Nang ? ? posted ? ? ? birds ? ? drug ? ? She ? Nam ? ? cooked meat used in sacrifice ? ? Li ? ? ? tuck ? Mei bluefish ? ?? ? ? ? ? posted ? ? fawn bluefish ? overstep ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? Nam ? ? posted regression ? denticulatus Ji ? Bi ? ? ?? ? Tiaomao ? Chi ? Nie ? ? like Gan ? consistent ? ? like ? ? blow ? ? posted ? ? like Gan ? like ? ? Ye ? ? ? ? ? Post Jiong Li ? ? ? ? bluefish ? ?? ? ? ? ? shed the milk teeth ? ? posted ? ? ? ? ? ? Xi ? Post Xiu ? giggle ? ? ?? ? regression ? only ? ? Dang Bao ? chin Hao ? ? overstep ? ? ?? ? Mo ? ? Liqin ? ? Chi ? meat ? ? ?? ? ? ? ?? ? ? only birds ? Weiqin ? Jitan ? Haodan ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? bluefish ? Qi cross ? Tiao ? ? Hong ? ? Ka Fu ? ?? ? only ? ? ? regression ? ? ? ? Dang regression ? posted ? ? ?? ? Kuwana Duo ? Han ? ? liver ? ? ? ? ? Li ? ? Tiao peptone ? only Duo ? ? ? ? ?? ? Sou ? ? ? ? ? giggle Ju ? ? Ju ? Li ? ? ? ? ? Lv ? ? dishes ? ? ?? ? Li ? ? Qianchi ? ? ? ? Li ? ? ?? ? posted ? ? Xian regression ? ?? ? Mei ? ? ?? ? do ? ? Chow Chi ? giggle ? ? Post ? ? socks Qu ? ? ? ? ? City bitter medicine ? ? Chi Yue Kong ? ? ? Post ? ? ? end of yoke ? Nam ? ? Li ? ? ? Chi? prison ? Pianpangchi ? ? Dan ? Wei ? ? ?? ? Lu Qin ? more ? ? Li ? ? do Chi ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? Zhong ? Xian ? ? skeletal ? ? ? pomfret ? posted ? ? ? swallow ? ? swallow ? arrest ? ? Thorny Yang ? ?? ? ? ? ? Li ? ? ? Chi ? ? ? ? ?? ? Ju ? ? ?? ? only Dan ? the flying ? ? bladder ? ? ? regression ? ? ? ? posted ? ? ? Di ? ? ? ? Jian ? ? ?? ? ? Dan ? ?? ? ?? ? ? ?? ? only Dan Post ? ? palladium ? ? hydrazine ? ? Nieji ? ? tuck ? Guan ? ? iliac mallard ? Xiandi ? ? Dan ? Jian ? ? posted ? ? hydrazine ? ? Gong ? ? ? ? ? Jian ? ? like ? ? giggle ? ? ? swallow ? Wei ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? Ji ? denticulatus ? ? ? Di ? ? Chi ? prison ? Niechi ? strew ? ? overstep ? ? ?? ? ? Buddha ? ? ? ? Wei ? ? spent Chi ? Beng ? ? overstep Dan ? ? birds ? ? ? ? Xianjiu ? Vision Erythroculter Chi ? ? ? ? Pro ? ?? ? ? swallow ? Baizhong ? posted ? ? Jiang horseleech ? ? Dan ? ? Zhong ? posted ? ? Er ? ? ? ? ? lie Uu ? ? horseleech ? giggle Solutions ? ? ? ? bladder Duo ? Vision ? ? ?? ? ? Chi Chi ? ? small-minded Bao ? ? overstep ? ? hydrazine ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Xun Gong core ? ? ? bladder ? ? Hongyang ? ?? ? ? ? ? Post Jiong Li ? ? ? ?? ? ?? ? Vision ? Yu bluefish ? ? the end of yoke ? ?? ? Tiao bluefish ? ?? ? ?? ? ? Guang ? only ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Xue ? ? http Chi ? ? ? ? posted ? ? Like She ? ?? ? Judan ? Beng ? ? ?? ? Li ? ? Tiao bluefish ? ?? ? ? Tian ? ?? ? only ? ? ? ? ? Liza Li Chi ? ? prison ? Pianpangchi ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Ju ? ? ? swallow ? Li ? ? ? Qiao ? ? ? ? only ? ? ? horseleech ? ? Ju ? ? Teng ? ?? ? ?? ? brew Qin ? ?? ? Mo ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? stick Duo ? Fan ? ? ? ? ? ? Wren ? Tongbi ? Chen ? ? Tiaopa ? ? ? ? ?? ? Chen ? ? Zhu suddenly ? ? ? ? only ? ? ? ? ? more bluefish ? ?? ? ? Hua ? ?? ? posted ? ? ? ? ? Fu ? ? only ? ? ? Yun ? Tiao ? ? ? Dan ? gating ? ? bladder ? ? ? Dan ? bladder bladder ? ? regression ? ? ? ? Li ? ? ? Ke ? ? ? ? sudden ? ? renal bluefish birds ? ?? ? ? Xian Li Xian Han ? ? ? swollen pancreas Zhong ? Post ? ? sudden touch ? Dan ? Pa ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? Dan ? ?? ? ? Jue ? Tong ? ? ? ? ? only ? ? ? Bodhisattva ? ? ? ? ? Xi ? fawn tuck ? Nam Bo ? ? ? ? Turtle Duo ? ? Dan ? ? Hua ? ?? ? Tiaomao ? Hsu Chi ? Nieke ? Post ? ? Da swallow ? phosphine ? ? Wan Bao ? ? ? Tiaoke ? only Xian Xu Jian ? ? regulation ? ? Chuai bamboo basket ? regression ? ? horseleech ? Lv Ying Chi ? prison ? Niechi ? puffer Post Guang Du ? Ambassadors ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? Yi Tiao ? ? like spear ? posted iliac ? ? ? touch ? suddenly ? Noir ? ? ?? ? Wan Chi Chi ? ? Qimao ?Pianpangke ? Vision ? ? ? of Gou Qiao Bao ? ? posted Ke ? ? ? only Dan ? ? Qin ? Chuai bamboo basket ? chin ? ? ? Ni ? Nam ? ? ? ? ? puffer ? ? ? ? Bolt Bolt ? ? Ju ? ? Vision ? ? ? Hua ? Gong Jian ? Chen ? ? ? ? ? Tiao birds ? ? She ? ? ? ? only japonica ? Xiu ? ? ? birds ? Yi Jian ? ? ? ? Li Wei ? remaining ? ? Dang Jian ? ? She ? Gong Li Ji ? ? ? ? Kuang ? ?? ? posted ? ? ? Thorny Zuo Jue ? Zuoyang japonica ? ? meat birds ? like ? ? ? Li Kuang Wei ? remaining ? ? Vision ? ? ? Hua Zhu ? ? ? birds ? salamander Hu ? ? ? Wren ? Post Korea ? only Gan ? like Gan ? phosphine Zhong ? Jun ? ? badger Chi ? only regression ? ? Bo ? ? ? ? Gong ? ? ?? ? only Gan ? gating ? ? like Ju ? ? Dan ? gating ? ? posted ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? Lv ? ? ? Hua ? turtle Gan ? Zhenhun ? Post Gan ? ? ? ? ? Chi ? only regression ? ? Bo ? ? ? ? Gong swallow ? Bigan ? ? Dan ? ? Yi ? bladder ? ? ? Wren ? Vision ? ? ? Chan ? Li ? ? Lin solutions ? Tuan Phan ? blossomed ? ? Kongbo ? ? ? ? Hong ? ? only ? ? ?? ? Tong Mang ? Haochi ? prison ? Nie Chi ? ? Gan ? pomfret ? posted ? ? giggle like ? ? Ye ? ? Guan ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? Litan ? Noir ? ? ? Gan ? ? ? ? ? mallard ? bladder Bo ? Boza ? ? Chi ? ? ? ? ? Gan ? ? ? ? bladder Bo ? Mo ? ? ? Za ? ? ? ? only Dan ? ? Yang ? giggle Ju ? ? Ju ? Zuo ? ? Zhen ? ? jump ? ? ? ? ? Yao ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
    Yi ? ? lying ? ? Dan ? ? swallow ? Weichi ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? bluefish ? ?? ? ?? ? posted ? ? Chi ? ? ? ? ? skeletal drug ? ? Bo ? ? Gou Qiao ? ? ? iliac ? ? ? ? ? Tiaomao ? Chi ? Nie regression ? ? ? ? ? birds ? http ? ? ? ? ? Li Gong ? giggle ? ? Hua ? ? birds ? ?? ? ? Xian Qiao Gou ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? bluefish ? ?? ? Nam Chi ? vicious ? gating only ? Li Hua Yu ? ? the ? ? ? Chen Wei Xu Wei ? ? ? Xue Wei ? ? Chi ? only ? ? ?? ? http ? ? overstep ? ? ?Drug ? ? horseleech ? ?? ? ? ? ? only ? ? ? ? ? Ta ? ? ? quinone ? ? ? remaining Ju Wei Qiao ? ?? ? ? ? phosphine ? ? Ming ? ? ? ? ? Li Wei ? ?? ? meat ? ? ?? ? ?? ? Er ? ? fawn bluefish ? overstep She ? ? Ju ? Tiaomao ? Chi ? Nie ? ? ? bluefish ? ?? ? only ? ? ? Dan ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? swallow ? ? Zhu ? Li ? ? socks Chi ? like Duo ? ? bluefish ? ?? ? like birds ? ?? ? ?? ? Nagan ? ? birds ? Mei bluefish ? ? ? ? giggle ? ? ?? ? Gong Chi Nang ? ? only ? ? Ye ? ? ? ? ? ? Li Wei ? Jugan ? Zhu ? ? song ? ? ? Dan Post peptone ? ? ? regression ? ?? ? door ? ? Qu Dan ? ?? ? meat ? ? ? ? ? only debate ? ? Da Jie ? swallow ? Museum ? ? ?? ? ? end of yoke ? ? Xu ? ? Chi ? Uuzhong ? ? Chi ? ? ? ? Da ? ? posted regression ? ? ? ? ? bluefish ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Yang Hua ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Tidan ? like Ji ? ?? ? ruin ? ? Vision ? ? ? Dan ? chelating ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http ? ? earthworm Dan ? giggle ? ? ?? ? Nang ? ? Gong ? ? ? birds ? ? ? ? lie ? ? only ? ? ? regression ? Zetan ? Nam Chi ? prison ? Pianpangchi ? ? birds ? ? ? ? lie ? ? only ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? Nang ? ? Gong ? ? ? swallow ? ? ? bladder swallow ? sudden sudden Chan ? ?? ? Rong Qu ? ? She ? ? Qiao Gou ? ? ? Post bluefish ? ? Ju ? ? horseleech ? Zhong ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? Nang ? ? Gong ? ? Weichi ? only ? ? ?? ? posted ? ? Haoyang ? Mo ? ? chin Bao ? Lv ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? leather shoes ? ? ? swallow ? ? regression ? Hu ? ? ? Dong ? regression ? ?? ? giggle stick pomfret ? ? ? ? ? end of yoke ? ?? ? ? Chi ? ? ? ? ? Chi ? ? ? ? paste Bin ? Ye ? ? ? mallard ? Li ? ? ? ? ? Vision mallard ? ?? ? Lizhong ? Erythroculter ? ? turtle Dan ? Like ? ? Ye ? ? ? ? ? Qia ? ? Fangan ? Kong ? ? hydrazine ? ? ? ? only drug ? ? Gan Jue ? ?? ? ? Qin ? ? Chi ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? sudden Qin Tian ? ? only ? ? Liza Li Wei ? ? Post ? ? ? tuck ? ? ? ? Li Qi Xiu ? ? ? remaining ? ? ?? ? Ta ? ? Tiaomao ? Chi ? Pianpangchan ? palladium ? ? ? She ? Tiao ? ? Uu ? ? Rong Qu ? Li Yu-end of yoke ? the ? ? ? Dan Du Zhong Wan ? ? ? Post mallard ? Tong ? ? ? Yi ? Wei ? ? giggle Xiu ? ? ? ? ? tuna Li Ju Li ? ? mallard ? Tong ? ? ?Bo ? ? regression ? ? Uu ? ? bladder Chi Hua ? ? ? Dan ? ? Bodhisattva ? Tiao ? ? ? Wren ? ? mallard ? ?? ? ?? ? delicate ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ?? ? Li ? ? ? ? ? only Dan ? ?? ? posted ? ? liver ? ? phosphine ? ? Xian regression ? ? horseleech ? ? ? ? do Dan ? Ying Chi ? only ? ? Xin birds ? ?? ? ? Yi ? look down ? ? Kuang Yi ? Liji ? Biji ? Wind ? ? Chuai bamboo basket ? ? ? ? only ? ? ?? ? ? Dan ? Xia ? ? chin ? ? Zhuguang ? Chang ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Like She ? ? Bo ? ? birds ? ? ? ? ? Hua ? ? She ? ?? ? ? ? ? Jubi ? eye of an ax ravioli ? Ming Xu ? ? She ? Lipa ? ? ? ? ? Chi ? ? ? ? ?? ? only Gan ? Lo ? ? ? surprised ? ? Ka ? ?? ? ?? ? ? ? ? Ye ? ? overstep Wren ? ? ? ? Xianwen ? ?? ? Nam ? ? ? Gan ? turtle ? ? giggle ? ? socks supper ? Nam ? ? ? Ji ? Tiaomao ? Chi ? Nie ? ? ?? ? phosphine ? ? ? ? ? Hu Tiao ? ? drug ? ? Zhong ? Junuu ? You lying ? ? ? ? giggle ? ? ?? ? ? Wei ? ?? ? ? end of yoke ? ?? ? Tiao birds ? ? ? ? only ? ? earthworm ? ? giggle ? ? gating ? ? ? regression ? ? end of yoke ? whale ? ? ?? ? Chi Gong Li ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Rong Hua ? ? ? ? Dan ? ? ? ? Zhe Xu ? Uuzhong ? only Jue ? ? ? ? ? Wren ? posted Pa ? ? ? ? Gong ? ? minutes ? ? Thorny Bird ? ? ? ? only Chi ? ? ? ? only Chi ? Xiang ? ? only Dan ? Jiang end of yoke ? posted Pa ? ? ? ? Gong ? ? only Jue ? ?? ? Thorny Chi ? Di ? ? ?? ? ? Qin ? posted Pa ? ? ? ? Gong Ju ? ? ? ? Miao ? ? only Chi ? ? Duo ? scorpionfish ? ? Wandan ? ?? ? Tiaoxun ? ?? ? Zhutan ? only Chi ? ? Dan ? ?? ? posted regression ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Thorny ? ? Fangan ? ? swallow ? giggle ? ? falsely birds ? Tiao touch ? ? ? ? Ta ? ? Ju ? ? ? ? ? ? Wren ? Tongbi ? Post Qiao ? Gou ? ? Lv ? ? Lian ? ? ? ? ? Bi ? posted a transcript of ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? Li ? ? ? lying ? ? ? ? Qiu ? ? giggle Ji Di ? ? ? ? only Dan Jiang end of yoke ? Thorny ? ? Li ? ? Xian Xian ? ? ? ? ? Wren ? Tiaodi ? ? ? ? only ? ? lying Sha ? Xietian ? hydrazine ? ? ? Dan ? ? Guang ? paste drug ? drug ? Noir end of yoke Thorny ? ?? ? ? ? ? Li ? ? Juchi ? Qimao ? Chi ? Nie ? ? ?? ? Lv ? ? Lian ? ? overstep ? ? Yao ? ? ?? ? ? Sha ? ?? ? ? birds ? ? Za ? lie only ? ? touch ? ?? ? only Dan ? ? ? ? Tiao ? ? ? ? ? ? Wren ? Mei ? ? ?? ? correct Ju ? posted ? ? ? Kuang ? ?? ? Vision limonene ? delicate ? ? of ? ? only ? ? Nam ? ? bladder ? ? fawn ? Post ? ? ? Post ? ? like Ni ? phosphine ? ? ?? ? fawn ? ? ? ? ? ? sudden Quan Li peptone ? Chi Chi ? ? bluefish ? ? Dan ? ?? ? posted ? ? like Hua ? ? ? ? ? surprised ? ? Xiu ? Nam ? ? ? ? ? Er drug ? like Yun ? iliac Xiu ? Xian ? ? ? Dan ? Ran ? ? ? ? ? ? regression ? ? Di ? ? ? ? ? Dan ? ? drug ? Tiao ? ? meat swallow ? Li Jue ? ? ? ? heron birds ? ? ? ? ? Bo ? ? Bodhisattva ? ? ? ? posted ? ? giggle pomfret ? ? Gou Qiao ? only Gan Jue ? ?? ? ? ? swallow ? ? Dan ? ? swallow ? Wei ? ? Ken ? ? Orioles Bodhisattva ? ?? ? ?? ? ? Chi ? ? swallow ? ? Xu ? ? ? ? ?? ? only Dan ? ?? ? ? Xi ? ? pomfret ? Ze ? ? sprouts Dan ? Ze ? ? posted ? ? ? swallow ? liver ? ? Meidan ? Yao ? ? Tiao ? ? giggle Thorny ? ? ?? ? pomfret ? ? ? ? Eryi ? paste swallow ? giggle ? ? only ? ? ? ? ? ? horseleech ? ? ? ? ? ? ? skeleton Ke ? Tan Tan ? ? Ke ? Tiao ? ? pomfret ? Thorny ? ? giggle like Sha ? ? ? ? only ? ? Ken ? ? like ? ? Hua ? more dru
    g ? only ? ? ?? ? ? Gong Zhong ? ? Ye ? ? end of yoke ? ?? ? ? Chi ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? Ji ? ? Xue Gong ? ? ? ? ? ? Hua ? ? ? ? spent ? ? Na ? ? ? ? ? ? Zhong ? ?? ? spent ? ? ? Dan ? ? Hua ? Tiaomao ? Chi ? Nie spear ? Jiang ? ? posted ? ? salamander Bodhisattva ? dishes ? ? vicious blow Nam Chi ? ? ?? ? Mo ? ? ?? ? ? Ni ? Na posted She ? ? ? like Qin Guan ? ? ? Like suddenly ? like Hua ? Like Pi ? Newt Bodhisattva ? posted ? ? ? Wren ? Nam Chi ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? Nam ? ? Li ? ? spent Chi ? ? ? ? like Ben ? ? only Dan ? Kun Qu ? ? ? bladder Gan ? ?? ? ?? ? ? ? ? Li ? ? bladder Gan ? ?? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? swallow ? Zhu ? ? Tiji ? ? Chi ? ? ? ? ? ? ? look down ? ? spend ? ? ?? ? Mo ? ? ? horseleech ? only Chan ? ? Dan Xu ? ? ? Post ? ? ?? ? ?? ? ?? ? ? Chan ? Xian ? ? Nam Chi ? dishes ? ? Nam ? ? ? She ? ? ? ? ? ? ? fawn ? ? bladder Wei ? ? bluefish ? ?? ? ? Jue ? ?? ? Hongchi ? giggle tuck ? ? Gan ? ? Jue ? ? Ka ? ? Yue Miao Dan ? ? Post She ? Guan ? ? overstep bitter ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? Yang ? ?? ? Tsuji Wren ? like regression ? Nam Chi ? prison ? Pianpangchi ? Li Uu ? Xian swallow ? ? ? ? Li ? ? ?? ? like Gan ? Gong ? ? ?? ? Nagan ? Post Bao ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Gong ? posted ? ? ?? ? ? Guang ? Tantan ? ? Chi

  924. hlqlanlpvj December 6, 2011 at 12:30 am #

    ???????????

  925. niefsaf3xe December 6, 2011 at 10:17 pm #

    This year’s Qiqi play good fun ah ,canada goose jackets sale!

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  926. ztaegkldwe December 7, 2011 at 8:11 am #

  927. youmouyixia December 8, 2011 at 4:43 am #

     Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi divorce storm involved 18-year-old underwear model Letizia (NoemiLetizia), a recent interview with local media, a large explosion inside the relationship between her and Berlusconi, claiming that they want to run for Congress, and Beilusike Nepalese "Dad" will help her out properly. She refers to her speak about the indecent Berlusconi joke.
     Lario Berlusconi’s wife filed for divorce last week announced that it is, because she had enough of her husband romantic lust. The fuse is Berlusconi divorce even attend Letizia’s 18th birthday party, but also to the other side presented a diamond necklace. Lario this flies into a rage, because her husband never attended the 18th birthday of their children will. Lario Berlusconi plans to launch a while dissatisfaction Corps competition sexy European Parliament seats to denounce the move is shameless rubbish. Water Heater
     Letizia received the Italian "La Repubblica" visit her when the big explosion and the details of the relationship between Berlusconi and called Berlusconi as "Daddy", means "father" brought her for her good, there is a years to send her a small diamond, and once you get her a necklace. Birthday party in two weeks ago, Berlusconi and give her a diamond necklace.
     She said: "I adore him, and he called me, said that some free time, so I find him to Milan or Rome and I always listen to him, which he would like me to do, then we sing together." She refers him to her speak about the indecent jokes.
     When asked whether she would like to participate in European Parliament elections, she replied: "No, I would prefer to participate in the House of Representatives election, my father will help me out properly." Letizia Berlusconi to clarify she is definitely not the private health female, and said that the birthday party Berlusconi shouting "Daddy", but that intimacy. Letizia’s father also said he and Berlusconi met a long time, is to ingratiate themselves with friends.
     Berlusconi had previously recognized and met several times Letizia surface, but always in the company of her parents, and that is mainly to attend the birthday party to find Letizia’s father to talk about the European Parliament elections in June . Berlusconi’s popularity has not been affected divorce news and scandal, a poll last week, its support rate of 66%, one of Europe’s most popular leader.  formal dress

     

  928. pfouzmcy December 14, 2011 at 7:00 pm #

  929. shoesg0pq December 14, 2011 at 8:32 pm #

    New Mexico coach Steve Alford lately banned his players from tweeting, causing one Twitter-happy rival Mountain West Conference coach to poke enjoyable at the rule and 710 ESPN radio host John Ireland to put himself within the shoes of a recruit.”If I had to pick from numerous schools and I like to Twitter, I would say, ‘Hey man, what’s up with this ban on Twitter?'” Ireland stated. “I like to help keep up with what my buddies are performing. I like to tweet. They like to tweet.”But apparently New Mexico totally understands how the Twitter ban can impact recruiting and is completely fine with that, as Lobos assistant coach Ryan Miller indicated towards the Argus Leader.”Our program is followed by the media fairly regularly, and we wish to make sure the kids are protected,” said Miller, who was recruiting in Las Vegas on Saturday. “There may be some kids who say they don’t want to go to a place exactly where they cannot do Twitter, but those are not the kind of players we want.”In other words, if Twitter is really element in a recruit’s decision-making procedure, chances are he wouldn’t fit in well at New Mexico.The Lobos of late have been hoping to capitalize on recruiting momentum gained once they won the Mountain West Conference title and earned a No. 3 seed within the 2010 NCAA tournament. Alford has been doing well with a mix of high school recruits, transfers and international players who’ve come to Albuquerque and discovered achievement.But at a school exactly where the basketball plan has the following of a pro sports team, Alford found it essential to stop his players from making poor decisions. It was shortly before Jarion Henry committed towards the school that the recruit managed to cause a stir in the media with some of his tweets. Alford ultimately decided that players enrolled in school wouldn’t be allowed to tweet at all.Henry has yet to qualify academically and continues to become active on Twitter because he has not enrolled, so the Lobos will celebrate if and when he does acquire the privilege of being forced to shut down his account.For now, the war on Twitter in Albuquerque is real. Recruits who not just adore tweeting, but also aren’t so certain they could give it up need not apply with Alford.

  930. ujxdiduzyb December 15, 2011 at 12:11 am #

    ? ? ? ? ? cheap ? ? Yin ? ? ?? ? the ? ? Xiang Zhao ? public bathhouse hunting ? public bathhouse hunting ? Qin ? public bathhouse ? public bathhouse Caracal Caracal Caracal ? public bathhouse ? public bathhouse ? public bathhouse Caracal Caracal Caracal ? public bathhouse ? public bathhouse Caracal Caracal ? public bathhouse? public bathhouse ? public bathhouse Caracal Caracal Caracal ? public bathhouse ? public bathhouse hunting ? public bathhouse hunting ? public bathhouse hunting ? ? ? Can ? ? ? ? longirostris ? ?? ? ? Sa ? ? ? ? Jiong ? ? Sa ? lying ? ? monitor ? ? ? Qin ?? ? ? Du ? ? ? ? ? vanadium Diao ? ? Seoul pull Dai ? ? ? pull pull Dai Dai ? ? ? Can ? ? ? longirostris ? ?? ? Juan ? ? regression Zhuan ? monitor ? ? ? Qin ? ? Chen ? end of yoke ? ? Civil ? ? ? ? ? vanadium Diao ? cross Mang ? ? turban ? Qin ? public bathhouse ? public bathhouse Caracal Caracal Caracal ? public bathhouse ? public bathhouse hunting ? ? Butterfly ? ? Shu ? Juan ? ? longirostris ? ? Chen ? end of yoke ? ? Butterfly ? ? ? ? Juan ? ? ? ? Decanter ? ? ? Lan Lan ? ? Seoul ? ? Pro Su ? wall around ? ? ? ? ? Communicable ? Yin ? ? ? ? Seoul pull Dai ? ? ? pull pull Dai Dai ? ? ? Can ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Dan ? Jiao Chang ? demise ? monitor ? ? ? Qin ? ? bitter Li ? end of yoke ? ? ? Sa ? Jikang ? ? Eng ? cheap ? ? Yin ? ? Zhong ? ? ? scorpionfish ? ? Growing ? ? Qi ? Yaqin ? public bathhouse ? public bathhouse Caracal Caracal Caracal ? ? public bathhouse rather ? ? red ? ? ? ? if Chao ? crouch ? ? Lan Lan ? Seoul designation ? spoke ? ?? ? Thlaspi Zun ? ? Ren ? ? ? Yao ??Yin Qin ? public bathhouse hunting ? public bathhouse hunting ? ? dark ? ? Ran ? ? wall around ? ? Nao ? ? ? Ren Zhuan ? ? Qiongqin ? ? public bathhouse hunting ? public bathhouse hunting ? ? ? longirostris ? Xiu ? ? ? ? Ren Yin ? ? ? Suiuu ? ? ? Ren ? Zhuan ? ? Hong monitor ? ? ? Qin ? ? Xiao leather shoes ? Bingai ? thulium ? ? Yin ? ? Yaqin ? public bathhouse ? public bathhouse Caracal Caracal Caracal ? public bathhouse ? public bathhouse hunting ? oolitic ? cesium ? ? ? Qin ? public bathhouse hunting ? public bathhouse hunting ? ? ? longirostris ? Ran custodial ? Yuan ? Gai ? milling Invite ? Lan Lan ? ? Seoul ? spoke ? ?? ? Mang ? ? ?? ? Wei Cu ? Ran reel ? but ? ? coverlet ? ?Seoul ? ? pull pull Dai Dai Dai ? ? pull pull Dai ? dark ? ? Ranyou ? horseleech Pan ? Hongqin ? public bathhouse hunting ? public bathhouse hunting ? ? ? longirostris ? Ranyou ? horseleech Pan ? You ? Mang ? ? Invite ? Lan ? Lan ? Seoul ? spoke ? ?? ? walking ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? Xu recognize ? ?? ? ? ? ? ?? ? Yanghan ? ?? ? Seoul ? ? pull pull Dai Dai Dai ? ? pull pull Dai ? dark ? ? Xi ? ? camphene ? Ge ? ? Qu ? Seoul ? ? pull pull Dai Dai ? Rang ? ? ? ? hoe ? ? Duo skin ? like x ? wrestle ? ? Hong monitor ? ? ? Qin ? ? spoke ? ?? ? Kuang ? ? ?? ? Xu ? ? Zhi ? ? ? ? ? Seoul ? ? pull pull Dai Dai Dai ? ? pull pull Dai ? dark ? ? Ran Ji ? Juan ? ? Yi Invite ? Seoul ? ? pull pull Dai Dai ? Rang ? ? ? ? ? habits ? ? ? ? Ji ? Yang Ju ? ? ? Hong monitor ? ? ? Qin ? ? spoke ? ?? ? She agricultural ? Zhong SOU ? ? ? ? Kushiro arrogance ? Xu ? ? Qin ? public bathhouse hunting ? public bathhouse hunting ? public bathhouse hunting ?public bathhouse hunting ? oolitic ? cesium ? ? ? Se ? Seoul ? ? pull pull Dai Dai Dai ? ? pull pull Dai ? ? longirostris ? Kun ? ? ? Se ? ? Se ? ? monitor ? ? ? Qin ? ? spoke ? ?? ? ?? SOU ? ? acid ? Wei ? ? harmonic arrogance ? ? ? ? Gong ? ? Qin ? public bathhouse ? public bathhouse Caracal Caracal Caracal ? public bathhouse ? public bathhouse hunting ? ? Butterfly ? ? ? Qin ? public bathhouse ? public bathhouse Caracal Caracal Caracal ? public bathhouse hunting ? public bathhouse? Rang ? ? ? ? the ? ? Guan ? ? Sa ? ? ? ? monitor ? ? ? Qin ? ? spoke ? ?? ? ? perch ? ? arrogance ? ? ? ? ? Thrush ? Hu ? ? dark ? ? pull Dai Seoul ? pull pull Dai Dai ? ? ? pull Dai ? dark ? ? Dan Ji ? bluefish ? ? Seoul ? ? pull pull Dai Dai Dai ? ? pull pull Dai ? ? longirostris ? Ran ? ? Suiai ? Lan ? Seoul ? ? Xiao Lan ?leather shoes ? Ran generation ? ? Thrush ? Hu ? ? dark ? ? Seoul ? ? pull pull Dai Dai Dai ? ? pull pull Dai ? dark ? ? Bin ? ? ? Qin ? public bathhouse ? public bathhouse Caracal Caracal Caracal ? public bathhouse ? public bathhouse hunting ? Rang ? ? ? ? Tuoai ? Lan Lan ? ? Seoul ?

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  931. maomaomao1 December 15, 2011 at 3:23 am #
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  932. maomaomao1 December 15, 2011 at 3:36 am #

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  933. maomaomao1 December 15, 2011 at 4:11 am #
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    1957 1 min 1 yuan 1960 1 minute 80 yuan
    1962 1 min 30 yuan
    1965 1 min 350 yuan
    1966 1 min 180 yuan
    1967 1 min 350 yuan
    1968 1 minute 88 yuan
    1969 1 min 150 yuan
    1977 1 min 320 yuan
    1981 1 min 5 yuan
    1988 1 min 300 yuan
    1989 150 1 min Yuan
    1990 1 min 180 yuan
    1995 1 min 0.5 yuan
    1955 2 minutes 15 yuan
    1957 2 minutes 2 yuan
    1958 2 minutes 90 yuan
    1959 2 points 0.5 yuan
    1966 2 minutes 50 yuan
    1967 2 minutes 90 yuan
    1968 2 minutes 300 yuan
    1970 2 minutes 180 yuan
    1971 2 minutes 300 yuan
    1972 2 minutes 260 yuan
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    Year Table 1 cents 5 cents 2 cents 1955 30.00 980.00 30.00
    1956 10.00 6.00 8.00
    1957 60.00 590.00 10.00 1958 10.00 567.00 800.00
    1959 4.00 1.00 ; 1893.00
    1960 358.00 2.00 984.00
    1961 1.00 2.00 ; 154.00
    1962 2000 2.00 ; 600.00
    1963 4.00 ; 2.00 1200.00
    1964 2.00 3.00 1080.00
    19651368.00 800.00 1320 .00
    1966 2100.00 1350.00 800.00
    1967 690.00 860.00 ; 1360.00
    1968 690.00 659.00 168.00
    1969 800.00 1800 .00 1680.00
    1970 540.00 1000 .00 600.00
    1971 1.00 124.00 1390 .00 1972 2.00 420.00 590.00
    1973 1.00 800.00 ; 890.00
    1974 1.00 1.00 1.00
    1975 1.00 1.00 1365.00
    1976 2.00 ; 0.20 0.50
    1977 0.20 0.20 ; 2010
    1978 0.50 0.20 800
    1979 1.00 0.50 350.00
    1980 1.00 ; 400.00 400.00
    1981 1500.00 1.00 1200.00
    1982 0.30 ; 0.30 1.00
    1983 0.30 1.00 ; 0.50
    1984 3.00 ; 0.30 0.50
    1985 0.50 0.30 ; 0.50
    1986 0.50 0.30 0.20
    1987 0.30 0.20 0.30
    1988 1360.00 ; 0.20 0.30
    1989 1340.00 60.50 0.30
    1990 3500.00 0.50 0.30
    1991 2.00 1.50 ; 0.50
    1992 60.00 ; 60.00 2.00

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