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The Amazing Dissolving Nation

  Going broke fast is a very compelling problem. For ordinary people it tends to induce chicken-with-no-head syndrome – a mad burst of pointless locomotion ending in sudden collapse. If the US debt ceiling is raised – which I think is a 90 percent bet – there will be a sigh of relief that resounds from the lobster pounds of Penobscot Bay to the parking lots of Silicon Valley… and poor dissolving America will still be stuck in its essential predicament of being broke. So a lot of pointless locomotion will continue in the form of positioning among a troop of clown candidates for the dumbshow of the 2012 election. I wonder lately whether that election will actually happen.
     Europe is arguably worse off money-wise, more broke, flimsier, crapped out, crippled, and paralyzed. Sad, because in outward appearance Europe  is – how shall I put this? – better turned out than America. Europe is a fit, silver-haired gentleman in a sleek Italian suit and a pair of Michael Toschi swing lace wingtips, holding a serious-looking Chiarugi leather briefcase. America is pear-shaped blob of semi-formed male flesh, in ankle-length cargo shorts, a black T-shirt featuring skull motifs, tattoos randomly assigned (as if by lottery) to visible flesh, a Sluggo buzz-cut, and a low-rider sports cap designed to make your head look flat. In other words, he lacks a certain savoir-faire compared to his European cousin. But both are broke. Neither has any idea what he will do next – though, for the American, it will probably involve the ingestion of melted cheese or drugs (or both). When the European collapses, a certain air of delicacy will attend his demise; the expired American will go up in flames in a trailer and they’ll have to sort out his remains from the melted goop of his dwelling-place with a front-end loader.
     This is the way the world ends for the OECD, the nations that affected to be developed and civilized. This phase of globalism is certainly not the end of history, but it is looking like the end of accounting tricks, and possibly democracy, which has discredited itself with accounting tricks. At a certain point in time, the sickening recognition sets in that appearances are not the same as reality – and then, all of a sudden, you’re in a political maelstrom. Citizens of the various lands will discover that the money being argued over, shifted around from column A to column B, assigned to this or that actuarial table or budget line or account or obligation or vault or  “structured vehicle”- that money is just… not… there. There’s no money. It was pretend money. From now on, none of you will get paid. Imagine a world where nobody gets paid.
     Europe has run the money string to its bitter end and now it just remains to be seen how each country blows up and where the dust settles. Greece and Portugal may just shrug and retire on an economy based on goat-cheese and olives. Ireland will get drunk and pass out for at least a century. Spain sinks back into an age-old catatonic daze, having gone broke spectacularly once before. Italy strings up Mr. Berlusconi on a lamp-post and breaks up into 112 warring city-states. France elects DSK, whose first act is to declare war on the City of New York. Religious wars leave England in embers. And Germany becomes the world’s first “green” police state.
     It’s conceivable to me that Barack Obama may be the last president – for a while. He was a decent fellow but, in the end, ineffectual, and of course he got no help from the legislative branch, including especially colleagues in his own party, a most remarkable class of maundering chickenshits and grifters. Our money problems will not go away and after a while this land will not be governable by familiar means. In case you haven’t noticed, the rule of law is already AWOL in many sectors of our national life, most particularly money matters, but before long on every street-corner, every highway strip, plus every GMO cornfield, and brownfield. The two parties are unreformable and the Tea Party is the stooge of one of the two parties, and there is no other party of earnest, decisive, and sane individuals anywhere near the horizon. So some kind of convulsion is in the cards and it will be the unfortunate duty of some dutiful officer to step in and set an agenda based on something other than bluster, fakery, and pocket pool.
     While there’s a good chance the US debt ceiling will be extended, it seems to me that meanwhile we have crossed an invisible line into a place where untoward things happen.


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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

757 Responses to “The Amazing Dissolving Nation” Subscribe

  1. soak July 18, 2011 at 10:19 am #


  2. kulturcritic* July 18, 2011 at 10:20 am #

    James –
    “While there’s a good chance the US debt ceiling will be extended, it seems to me that meanwhile we have crossed an invisible line into a place where untoward things happen.”
    It sure is a shame about the World Cup loss, huh? At least that what seems to concern our people in the press. I think the approaching debt issue and the Ice Maiden are more interesting myself.
    Enjoy the post, kulturcritic

  3. HeadingOut July 18, 2011 at 10:22 am #

    Here is a great analysis of the current Greek, and coming USA, financial scam take down by Wallstreet banksters:

  4. casual observer July 18, 2011 at 10:23 am #


  5. jimbolio July 18, 2011 at 10:25 am #

    Good read this morning, Jim. I’m not sure I agree with your timeline off coming disasters, but coming they are…

  6. GAbert July 18, 2011 at 10:25 am #

    Cash and Barter here we come!
    Face it, for most practical purposes the government in Washington belongs to Wall Street and other members of what’s referred to as the corporate oligarchy. It’s unlikely a Wichita billionaire funded Tea Party Movement’s going to change that state of affairs one iota. We might as well work on the assumption that the government’s been replaced with an answering machine just like the corporate oligarchy’s been advocating as the height of patriotism ever since the financial meltdown.

  7. Tangurena July 18, 2011 at 10:26 am #

    The Republican party has been waging an effective war of “chicken” against Obama. And it appears that every time, Obama bends over and grabs his ankles. All of the “plans” being discussed in DC involve raising the retirement age. I don’t think that the average Democratic party voter has a clue just how badly they’ve been betrayed by the so-called “leadership” in DC. And with the DNC being so heavily in favor of bailing out the banks, they have become barely distinguishable from the mouth-foaming nutjobs who make up the Teahadis.
    Even the “star” of Obama’s legislative pushes – the healthcare thing – is a betrayal of the public. Despite the complaints from the GOP, the act is so lopsidedly in favor of private insurance companies that it is effectively a bailout for them.

  8. mila59 July 18, 2011 at 10:28 am #

    James, I just re-read Robert Heilbronner’s “Inquiry into the Human Prospect” (1975) and was struck anew by the foresight of his theories and projections — it seemed as if you might have read him or used him as a resource for your “Long Emergency.” Just wondering. I totally agree with you that at every turn it seems as if the rule of law is disappearing in our country. It’s all just so overwhelming.

  9. Tomfoolery July 18, 2011 at 10:29 am #

    Being that due to the overshot population of the globe, the dwindling precious resources (including water), the leaderlessness of the world’s governments with regard to climate change, we’re in a bottleneck period that will become ever-more evident (like the severe drought in Texas or the ridiculous flooding in the heartland earlier) to everyone. By then it will become painfully apparent to us all that we blew it big time as a species and that there’s no escape from the coming calamity. Humanity is going down in flames.
    Enjoy the ride down and out.

  10. Jack Waddington July 18, 2011 at 10:29 am #

    You are right but Europe will just realize that Law Government and Money are obsolete and there will be chaos for a while then it will all settle. Meantime the US will kid itself that it’s not in the same predicament but will give up after a few months/years or whatever

  11. Newfie July 18, 2011 at 10:36 am #

    The Roman Empire peaked in 180 AD. It effectively collapsed during the Crisis of the Third Century (225 – 275 AD). But it managed to survive in various attenuated states for another 200 years until 476 AD. Industrial Civilization will die in a similar way. It won’t happen overnight. Not this year or in the next five years. I’d say – sticking my finger in the air – it will take maybe fifty years before it disintegrates. We are destroying the worlds oceans. That will hasten the demise. But the oceans won’t die overnight either. So while I do agree with the diagnosis and the prognosis, I think the short timeline proposed is not realistic. This civilization will die, but it will be a slow and agonizing death, and the Wall Street vultures will be feeding on the carcass every step of the way and will eat the bones in the end. 🙂

  12. MarlinFive54 July 18, 2011 at 10:41 am #

    Shit, I guess this sucker’s going down then!
    And just when I was getting ready to go on vacation.
    Oh well, I’ll just have to make other plans, like stay home.

  13. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 10:42 am #

    I will take the barter, you can keep the cash!

  14. Freddybeach July 18, 2011 at 10:43 am #

    Learning to garden, preserve food and be happy with less of everything…before it becomes the norm.

  15. Cabra1080 July 18, 2011 at 10:45 am #


  16. teddyboy46 July 18, 2011 at 10:48 am #

    no one has to wait for the police state it is already here.a Rochester ny woman is arrested for taping the police making an arrest. Which was the height of irony as the police themselves were taping with the dashboard camera.
    Last month the news media was running a picture of a couple kissing during a riot. When you saw the full clip you two jackbooted cops in full riot gear beating the stuffings out of this girl and her boy freind.
    Maybe it’s just me but I thought the police were trained to assess threat levels.They ignored the people throwing rocks at them just so they could show these two kids they meant business.
    if you think this is bad just wait until the local goverments start contracting out crowd control to BlackWater privite thug security.
    tha police state is already here my freinds remember keep you head down and you mouth shut in the land of the free and the home of the brave

  17. DeeJones July 18, 2011 at 10:51 am #

    So, Jim, just what do you think will happen if there is no raise to the debt ceiling? Will the US default? Will the Dual Parties actually let it fall into default? What will be the consequences of US default? Will the dollar become like the Lira, take $10k to buy a six pac?
    Come on, tell us what you really think will happen?
    You know, us expats that still have some, even small, financial link to the US will are mucho concerned if the dollar becomes worth about as much as say the Peso.
    But you are also probably right, they TPTB won’t let it go that far – This Time. But next year? Who knows?

  18. noel bodie July 18, 2011 at 10:51 am #

    Think how different things would be had Gore gotten into office: no bush tax cuts, no juicing the stock/real estate/low interest rate markets,no Iraq war, no Abu grahib, no gitmo, Katrina would have been handled better, perhaps no 9/11, and theerefore afghnistan,as there is every reason to believe there would have been more competence in positions of authority. All thanks to THE SUPREMES….I dissent.

  19. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 10:51 am #

    Hey Marlin, Penobscot bay is beautiful this time of year. Take the Vaca and spend your cash. It won’t be worth shit soon. Or you could buy another Marlin lever action! that would be a good investment. That Royal Enfield of yours. What year is it? There is a guy here in town with one . It is a sharp bike. It looks like new. I talked to him and I guess it is some sort of knock-off remake. What good is that? I was out on the R60 and a guy pulled up along side me with a mint Triumph, I looked over and it had disc brakes. I know that bike did not come with them. we had a 5-10 minute talk at about 30 mph. My bike is like a whisper jet. Another repro job. HUH? Sheet, if you want a new bike just buy one.

  20. empirestatebuilding July 18, 2011 at 10:54 am #

    I don’t think the heavy stuff is going to come down for quite awhile.
    I wonder what the total Net Worth of everything in the US is. Not counting accounting tricks. Just the hard stuff.
    Aimlow Joe was here

  21. Jerry July 18, 2011 at 10:55 am #

    I agree that we’re in deep shit, but as far as collapse, I’m not seeing the doom and gloom, yet.
    In California, I still see people driving to work on the freeways, shopping at malls, etc. Maybe the state gov’t is broke, but it’s not exactly forcing Californians to protect themselves with weapons fire against marauding psychopaths.
    At the Charles De Gaulle Airport in Paris recently, I saw a beutiful airport, filled with a lot of travelers. The average European doesn’t seem to be suffering to me…
    This was while I was on my back from Libya, doing some freelance war journalism, and helping-out, in the dramatic struggle against Gaddafi, where I could. As an ultra-survivalist, I wanted to experience a dress-rehearsal, before it comes to a city near you. In our case, it may not involve incoming Grad missiles, however.
    So don’t get me wrong; I know we’re heading for a multi-generational collapse, punctuated by natural and man-made regional disasters (good examples of the catabolic collapse currently taking place are the US Gulf States, and Japan, in particular), and I am an active prepper. I just don’t see how this debt crisis is affecting populations at large, currently.
    I would almost speculate that we are suffering from manufactured consent on the part of the elite sovereign debt holders, who want us to think that their crisis of not getting repaid has anything to do with us. I don’t owe anybody any money, and I don’t really care.
    Time to go check on the crops, both front AND back yards…

  22. bailey July 18, 2011 at 11:02 am #

    The financial terrorists, the US hedge funds tried to pull a fast one on Italy but the running joke has always been, due to the bureaucracy alone, no one will invade Italy. Hedge funds failed.
    And Italy was the mother load with more gold than anyone.
    Alas, we have just witnessed the largest transfer of wealth from the Anglo-American and related economies to Eurasia and the middle east in history, and that the present dollar-based fractional reserve currency system is unsustainable.
    Yes, most economists will agree, on that, you’re precisely right.
    Thanks Jim, you’re the best, and yes, especially if you’re in Kazakhstan and Moscow is making sure Barry and the neocons can’t invade, all is tutti bene

  23. BeantownBill July 18, 2011 at 11:05 am #

    I look around at our welcome-to-the-monkey-house world and am amused. What other reaction can be appropriate? Anger at us having blown it? Grief that the whole ball of wax is soon to be a blob of paraffin? Nah. Black humor is now our only realistic option for coping.

  24. hmuller July 18, 2011 at 11:09 am #

    There is nothing decent about Obama,he’s just the latest agent of the Rothschild Crime Syndicate to occupy the oval office.

  25. paranoia_agent July 18, 2011 at 11:10 am #

    Let us not forget that within living memory, that silver haired gentleman in the smart suit — Europe– bestowed upon mankind the vile gifts of nazism and communism. A simmering under-current of xenophobia and hostility to large immigrant groups that are present in Europe, but do not consider themselves Europeans, is bubbling below the surface. Do not expect Europe to emerge from the disintegration of the global economy without the grave likelihood violent nationalism and the restoration of dictatorship and authoritarianism.
    This is certainly not to suggest that the obese “violent clowns” of North America will endure with grace and stoicism, but I think that the U.S. and Canada stand a much better chance of coming through the crisis without massive convusions of the sort to which Europe has been prone throughout its history. Beware, because that fit silver haired gentleman in the tailored Italian suit may have his arm raised in a Seig Heil salute.

  26. Pucker July 18, 2011 at 11:13 am #

    Can any of you Clusterfuck-ups out there in the soon-to-be, Planet-of-the-Apes Forbidden Zone recommend any good books analyzing the various forms of Collective Action, or Mass Action?
    I understand that in some countries, such as China, that young people are highly organized via the Internet, but that they only act passively through the Internet and are disinclined to Collective Action, such as strikes, or protests.

  27. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 11:17 am #

    Nothing to do with the CFN, just ignore it if you are not interested. We have had a few drownings in the area lately. Just something to keep in the ol’ memory bank. Always seems to be kids or drunks.

  28. soma junkie July 18, 2011 at 11:17 am #

    This lovely song seems fitting for the times….
    “The dog days are over
    The dog days are gone
    The horses are coming
    So you’d better run!”

  29. MoncriefJ July 18, 2011 at 11:20 am #

    Newfie, you’re right — imperial declines take decades, not years. Jim is a vivid and funny writer who basically has the right idea about things, but he doesn’t get that the timeline won’t suit his impatience. For example, the chance th 2012 election won’t happen or Obama will be our last president is nil. Will we elect a batshit crazy teabagger if the economy tanks dramatically by then? Very likely. But institutions don’t disappear overnight. They just get morphed into something more and more unhealthy. Sorry, Jim, but you’re going to have to wait a long time to see the curtain call.

  30. ccm989 July 18, 2011 at 11:23 am #

    If the debt ceiling isn’t raised to cover our debts, the result will be worldwide financial disaster. No one (not even China) will be able to stay afloat. The Tea Party, in their rabid, mad power grab, doesn’t seem to care how much is riding on this. John Boehner, the orange cry baby, seems to have lost control of his Tea Party toadies, especially his arrogant and clueless minion, Eric Cantor, who throws hissy fits and walks out of meetings every time he doesn’t get his way.
    So if the ceiling isn’t raised, the game completely changes. For the worse, of course. But how quickly does the disaster occur? Do the banks send out the National Guard to throw hundreds of millions out of their homes? Does the National Guard even report for duty when they are no longer paid? Does Obama declare a National Disaster and suspend all bills? Do we revert to a barter economy or are we all expected to be gun-totting criminals who steal and/or kill to get food. Do we throw our whole civilization away because Eric Cantor is a little creep?
    And this is all because the CEOs and the super wealthy might lose their precious loopholes? How much money do these guys need anyway? Notice the Tea Party boys are all very young men in Brooks Brothers suits who sit at their masters’ feet. Are the CEOs funding them directly to destroy the country? What happens when the now homeless mobs burn down the CEO’s houses. And their cars, planes and yachts are sabotaged. We all know where they live and if the collapse actually occurred, we’d have absolutely nothing to lose getting even with them. And there are lots more of us than them. Suicide by greed.
    Or they could raise the debt ceiling and let civilization limp along like usual. Guess we’ll find out on August 2nd.

  31. agribiz July 18, 2011 at 11:24 am #

    “At a certain point in time, the sickening recognition sets in that appearances are not the same as reality – and then, all of a sudden, you’re in a political maelstrom. Citizens of the various lands will discover that the money being argued over, shifted around from column A to column B, assigned to this or that actuarial table or budget line or account or obligation or vault or “structured vehicle”- that money is just… not… there. There’s no money. It was pretend money. From now on, none of you will get paid. Imagine a world where nobody gets paid.”
    Expanded upon:

  32. lsjogren July 18, 2011 at 11:26 am #

    Tanguerina, your partisan hackery is showing.
    Is the political left any more sane than the right, when its most ardent idological committment is to the premise that government must steadfastly honor promises that are founded in Ponzi Economics (and thus utterly impossible to fulfill)?

  33. bubbleheadMarc July 18, 2011 at 11:29 am #

    Exactly. But to extend the timeline backwards it now appears first, that both sides lost the cold war, and second, that aristocratic suspicion of “democracy” during the early days of parliamentary representative government may be born out in the form of pandering politicians only caring about getting reelected, hence their inability to rise above an habitual pandering to the inevitably obtuse voting public.
    But this is a sick joke and sick jokes are the best jokes. Gentle humor is no humor at all. The population of smug assholes should now embark on a precipitous decline as people become sadder but wiser.
    Dropping out is an activity that should really come into its own now. After all, the path to enlightenment is “down and out.”

  34. WestCoast July 18, 2011 at 11:31 am #

    The Supreme Court has been renamed
    “The Supreme Corporate”….
    “No Taxation without representation…”
    That means not just elected representatives, but also
    social, infrastructure and valid fiscal policy.
    i.e. If the library closes, there is no mass transit, the schools are ineffectual and most importantly, a larger and larger share of taxes are going to the parasites on Wall Street, then we do not have representation and therefore are under no moral, legal or philosophical obligation to pay taxes.
    This applies at other levels as well.
    Thank you and good morning.
    p.s. Jim, a sleek grey haired gentleman in an Italian suit is not going to be caught dead in wingtips of any kind. Custom made Italian kid leather is where it’s at.

  35. MarlinFive54 July 18, 2011 at 11:35 am #

    Hey Ripthunder, Royal Enfield is a ’54. Runs pretty good. Those Brits once knew how to make pretty good stuff.
    I’ll be headed north and a little west, trying to uncover the French Indian War Battlefields Francis Parkman visited in the 1840’s.
    The thing about this Royal Enfield is that it tops out at about 55mph so one must take all backroads, no interstates.
    Marlin closed their plant in New Haven in 2009, after 140 years. Remington is still producing a few models in N Carolina. There are many used models out there and I buy whatever I come across. One of the maxims in life is that you never can have enough Marlin rifles.
    Ripthunder, good timely advice there about water safety. Another thing you might add is that water and alcohol do not mix. Many of the drownings ’round here seem to occur when the drownee is drunk.
    I have the utmost respect for you EMTs, also the local police, who have always been there when needed.

  36. soak July 18, 2011 at 11:35 am #

    The politics of nonviolent action / Gene Sharp

  37. dale July 18, 2011 at 11:39 am #

    I’m losing track, is this the second or the third election cycle that Jimmy boy has predicted will be the last?

  38. dale July 18, 2011 at 11:41 am #

    he lacks a certain savoir-faire compared to his European cousin.
    Must have missed coverage of English soccer matches.

  39. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown July 18, 2011 at 11:41 am #

    speaking of cynical assholes… I lost it on the Bob Dylan part.

  40. lbendet July 18, 2011 at 11:44 am #

    JHK, I do like a good horror movie, but hate to live it….
    You have addressed some of the issues brought up by Webster Tarpley in the last couple of months. An historian, Tarpley has likened this moment to pre-Nazi era Germany akin to Weimar and moving toward Bruning.
    He too, thinks the end of elections as we know them is a forgone conclusion as the disaster capitalists have moved the whole globe toward financial collapse to create the conditions that suit them best.
    As I’ve said before this system is global corporate communism and the idea of quick collapse looms large in my mind.
    The reason I think this is going to be a lot faster than the fall of Rome is because the last 100 years have seen the greatest changes in human societal development ever in history. The trajectory of change has been such, that there is little room for error, but our financial leadership has gone off the deep end and look how fast we are catapulting toward disaster!
    The human enterprise has failed because it is all based on illusion in order for some to have redistributed wealth move in directions that benefit the few on earth, with little meaningful endeavor.
    I was looking up something about Monsanto and I read a quote by Kissinger in 1970.
    “He who controls the food controls the people.”
    That’s the way our hegemons see Neo-imperialism. They could wipe out a population to get resources without ever shooting a gun. With thinking like that you know they couldn’t care less about the nation-state they have all but outgrown. Hope you like that no regulation chant, my friends, this is where it leads.

  41. Neon Vincent July 18, 2011 at 11:46 am #

    I was wondering when you’d give the U.S. debt ceiling top billing as a cause of collapse. Congratulations, you finally did. You’re most likely correct that it will be raised, but right now, as Jon Stewart put it, “the country is three weeks away from being parked down the block so the Chinese can’t find it.” That’s a pathetic state of affairs.
    Your personifications of Europe and America show that you still think that the American man still doesn’t know how to be a man, while the Europeans at least have culture and style. Fair enough, as I lived out in the country for 11 years, and had my fill of my rural neighbors. I have quite the rant about it on my Livejournal (look for darksumomo), and will eventually put it on Crazy Eddie’s Motie News. I now live in Detroit, and I feel safer than I did in rural Michigan. As I told Impaler a couple of weeks ago, the diversity wasn’t the problem, the unity was. Deja vu.
    Finally, this quote.
    “The two parties are unreformable and the Tea Party is the stooge of one of the two parties, and there is no other party of earnest, decisive, and sane individuals anywhere near the horizon.”
    I told you more than a year ago in a comment to “My Tea Party” about the Coffee Party. We have just passed 390,000 supporters and are getting organized in real life. This is what I told the other leaders about your essay, “Here is a post from a year ago by social critic and author James Howard Kunstler in which he describes what his Tea Party would look like. Other than his stance on immigration and his unorthodox austerity agenda in his last paragraph, I suspect much of his agenda would be in alignment with ours.” My extended take on “My Tea Party” is on Crazy Eddie’s Motie News for July 4th. People should look for it.
    Right now, the top story on the blog is about the race between a team of cyclists and a commuter jet over the weekend. The cyclists won by more than an hour, but so did someone taking L.A.’s subway system, also by more than an hour, and a rollerblader, by about 15 minutes. This is news that you can use to bolster your case for improving the U.S. rail system, while we still have money to do it. There’s also plenty about Julie Bass of Oak Park, who is still fighting city hall, but no longer over her garden, but about her dogs.

  42. suburbanempire July 18, 2011 at 11:46 am #

    Time for your meds sweetie….
    The potty is in your mouth again.

  43. MarlinFive54 July 18, 2011 at 11:50 am #

    Your post early this morning stunned me. I mentioned ‘marital problems’ in jest, from what I gleamed from earlier statements you’ve made. Sometimes (many times) I say stupid things which I think might be funny, but aren’t so funny.
    Your honesty shines thru. I pray everything turns out well.

  44. whitehunter July 18, 2011 at 11:52 am #

    If McCain had been “elected,” there would be many, especially of the democrat/progressive variety, who would say “If Obama had been elected we wouldn’t be involved in all of these wars

  45. WestCoast July 18, 2011 at 11:54 am #

    Google search of the week,
    “seed saving”
    as in
    grow food…
    What the good Professor is suggesting is that the Treasury doesn’t have to issue bonds at all. In fact, since the Treasury does control the electronic printing press, it could legitimately buy stuff with money it prints out of thin air.
    Sounds a bit like counterfeiting, doesn’t it? But, let’s step back for a second: what is the functional difference for the federal government between Treasury securities and bank notes? Both are liabilities of the federal government. But liabilities of what? The only obligation they enforce on the government is the promise to repay with more paper (or electronic bank credits, if you will). For all intents and purposes, bank notes, reserve deposits, and Treasury securities are fungible: they are obligations to be repaid in the same fiat currency…

  46. Neon Vincent July 18, 2011 at 11:58 am #

    Florence and the Machine–yes, that’s a great song for the situation. There are versions on YouTube that I like better and because they have more energy and convey more threat. Scan down the suggestions along the right edge and look for the live versions in concert and the video on the band’s Vevo channel (FlorenceMachineVEVO). The latter in particular is scarier.

  47. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 12:02 pm #

    Hey Fredo, how’s the water at the bottom of Tahoe? I got that canning stuff covered dude, I just made a huge score on Craigslist. Seems the folks gave up canning. I grabbed maybe? 100 cases for naught. pints, quarts, wide mouths, jellies. the whole gamut. Does anyone have thoughts on those reusable plastic lids? I can outside to keep the heat out of the house. I use the syrup rig I have set up. I also have an outdoor sink. Who wants to help? work for a day and I will give ya a jar of peaches. Laugh now, but you will do it in a second before you have to eat your calico. Those bastards are a bitch to skin! Although they say there is more than one way to skin a cat. I do not have a clue as to what that means. I like cats. Especially the drumsticks! Have a nice day. I luv you guys! I told ya I was a sick sumbitch! RT

  48. Cash July 18, 2011 at 12:18 pm #

    AMR if you’re out there
    I read your replies to my posts from last week. Great writing btw. What strikes me (aside from the jackassery of your politicians which we also have this side of the border) is the cynicism from the Republicans ie Cantor and Boner over this “debt ceiling” impasse.
    They assert there’s not a “revenue problem”. Rather, they say there’s a “spending problem”. Well fuck me. All along I thought the problem was the gap bewteen the two. Until now I didn’t know that there was a right number for “revenue” and a right number for “spending”.
    But you what, I don’t think the Republicans even believe their own bullshit. How do I know? Neither Boner nor Cantor can keep a straight face when they say it. Especially Cantor. Watch his face the next time he says “there’s not a revenue problem, there’s a spending problem”.

  49. ctemple July 18, 2011 at 12:19 pm #

    We don’t need to worry about what we’re going to do, we can watch pointless and lowbrow murder trials for weeks on end. Or we can obsess over the royal family kids, Will and Grace, er.. Will and Kate, The Duke of Sandwich and The Princess of Quarter Pounder with Cheese. He plays polo and stuff and unlike Lady Diana, at least this princess doesn’t look like Eddie Haskell!
    By the way, has anyone else noticed that Mitch Mcconnell looks like that kid who wanted a BB gun in the movie A Christmas Story?

  50. bossier22 July 18, 2011 at 12:19 pm #

    The Europeans will do what they have to do or they will be annihilated by their nonEuropean immigrants.

  51. anonymouse July 18, 2011 at 12:20 pm #

    when people use the reasoning that ‘rome took 200 years to finally dissolve’ it is just another cop out like we have 20 years before social security gets into trouble. it took years for the romans to clip all the coins in the empire. today we ‘clip coins’ in milli seconds with QE…..
    i still believe that when the black swan event triggers the collapse…it willbe like russia. virtually overnight. when the liquidity stops…everything stops imediately.
    “It’s conceivable to me that Barack Obama may be the last president – for a while. He was a decent fellow but, in the end, ineffectual, and of course he got no help from the legislative branch, including especially colleagues in his own party, a most remarkable class of maundering chickenshits and grifters.”
    howard…i am not a surgeon but the next time you need surgery let me do it for you..i have zero experience as a surgeon… will it turn out? well you voted for huessen and you knew he had never actually had a real job and no experience other than an affirmative action flunky and you thought he was going to be effective….turns out he was just as bad a grifter as all the previuos chicago politicians. let me operate on you and lets ‘hope’ i dont cut that big artery…..
    you act just like the idiots you blame for amerika’s downfall…? you cant keep a straight story…which is why i tossed your last book and wont be buying another.

  52. Jerry McManus July 18, 2011 at 12:21 pm #

    I love melted cheese!

  53. Smokyjoe July 18, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    I don’t know that rule of law is vanishing among ordinary Americans. Around here, the desperation all looks rather placid. The foreclosed-upon have not committed any random violence, and no one has driven a truck bomb into an HMO headquarters after a spouse died from a denied treatment.
    When those things begin, we’ll know Jim is right and comment on it right here. Meanwhile, all I see is the vanishing of the rule of law among the elite, who take, deny the problem, blame Obama, then take more. Eric Cantor, of my Congressional district, is one manifestation of that. The bankers who helped bring on this fiasco are another manifestation. And, yeah, some wealthy Democrats are in this cadre of thieves.
    We live in a funhouse-mirror version of the Victorian Age, but without an Upper Class that is tragic in the manner of Edith’s Wharton’s characters. We get Paris Hilton and not Lily Bart. Our filthy rich (how long has it been since THAT term was popular?) are just a kleptocracy cloaking itself in Libertarian bullshit.
    I hope that if the Mob does get surly, they punish these thieves in front of the TV cameras. The only problem with mobs is that they don’t discriminate. Anyone with a nice home or car becomes a target.
    Lucky America.

  54. jgalt6 July 18, 2011 at 12:24 pm #

    I think you are right on with your thoughts on no election in 2012, but for a different reason. Comrade Hussein, nee Obama, and the dark force behind him, George Soros, and their marxist thugs have no intention of leaving office and losing power. The marxists vowed never to again allow the electorate to choose when the Sandinistas and Ortega lost in the election they so arrogantly thought was theirs. Look for Hussein to declare martial law before the 2012 election if the polls indicate he will not win, after the leftist union thugs initiate violence on a nationwide scale. As for Hussein being ” a decent enough fellow”, I will have to respectfully disagree. He is a marxist and muslim through and through,with obvious hatred for America and everything we stand for. He is incompetent with respect to governing, but totally competent in carrying out the Soros game plan to destroy the America we know with the help of the American left, mostly of the Demoncratic version.

  55. djcrow22 July 18, 2011 at 12:25 pm #

    “Neither has any idea what he will do next – though, for the American, it will probably involve the ingestion of melted cheese or drugs (or both).”
    Funny as a bastard…Jim will never let go of the tattooed,mohawked,cheese doodled,inebriated,obese and brain defective NASCAR American stereotype.

  56. Smokyjoe July 18, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    Mr. jgalt6, a product of the spewing of Ayn Rand, is a case in point of the decay of American thinking.
    I have some tinfoil hats handy, Johnny, if you need one.

  57. newworld July 18, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    Anyone wanting to watch a movie dealing with the end of ideals try renting “The Island of Dr. Moreau” with Brando and Kilmer.
    Brilliant and well acted IMO and did not get much of an audience,I guess it upset the Blank Slaters and the eugenics people all at once.
    The “coffee party” now there is a cosmic joke. The left is comprised of cults rigidly segregated and today their only alliance glue is the quest for tax monies and the infantile “hate the big white daddy” syndrome. What I suspect the coffee party is is another gathering of white kids blowing their trust funds needing a place to find a hookup.

  58. ian807 July 18, 2011 at 12:29 pm #

    I have a depressing theory about how this debt debate plays out.
    I think a backroom deal was made between democrats and republicans. I think they refuse to lift the debt ceiling. The bond market freaks out and causes miscellaneous derivative-based nukes to go off, essentially tanking the economy.
    Bernanke rides to the “rescue” and creates a few trillion out of nothing. This is pumped into the economy as quickly as possible. Hyperinflation goes into high hear.
    Result? All dollar-denominated debt is worth about 10% (or some much lower figure) of what it was. Effectively, the USA defaults on its debt via inflation. Tradition!
    The USA is temporarily, really broke. Wages are now comparable to what is paid in China and India. China, which has the Yuan pegged to the dollar, can either devalue the Yuan to dollar levels, which would cause major political upheaval, or leave the value as is, tanking its export economy.
    The other longer-term side effect is that suddenly, USA labor is competitively priced. Other countries invest and domestic companies bring back work. Everyone’s poor, but everyone’s working.
    As an added aside, Obama is not re-elected and another shill, this time a republican one takes the same faux control.
    Is there a major flaw in this theory? Because I’m afraid that’s how it’s going to go.

  59. Newfie July 18, 2011 at 12:31 pm #

    I don’t see why liquidity would disappear overnight. Ben B. has stated he will drop money from helicopters if necessary. The amount of money that can be printed is infinite. Of course, the value of that money is another matter altogether. But so long as the loss of value of money is gradual, there shouldn’t be any sudden crisis. Gradual increasing inflation will steadily erode the standard of living but that shouldn’t trigger any sudden collapse. The bottom line is the standard of living is going to come down. The debt problems clearly indicate we are living beyond our means. But the coming drop in the standard of living may not be shared by all. The banksters and financial vultures will probably continue to do well (relative to the rest of us).

  60. suburbanempire July 18, 2011 at 12:37 pm #

    There seems to be a big push to have WWIII in the middle east starting this fall….
    ALL Kinds of “emergency” injunctions and delays, for just 6 months….. everything from DADT repeal, to billion dollar defense contrats being axed…. lots of footdragging… past some point?
    I am guessing that the “Arab Spring” is mostly CIA “fun and games” as a push to a job building war.
    The CIA or Moussad or both fund a “terrorist attack” that can be blamed on Iran…. Isreal bombs Iran, Iran retaliates.. and there you go… one match, one tinderbox… lots of profit and job creation back home.
    The whole thing has been in the works for some time now… and will end up with a nice exchange on the Korean pennunisla…
    Killing all kinds of birds with one big stone… a world war is just what we need right now… it will create jobs both overseas for young men, and here at home for women and gay men… (I assume that a terrorist “event” would stop the “end” of DADT)
    Next… it would drop oil use… tremendously… as most of the oil for pleasure would be deverted to war.
    Third…. people would die in large numbers… having an unrestrained all out war in the middle east would wipe out all those who are currently expecting to enter the world’s “middle class” as it were….
    POOF all the elite’s problems are solved.

  61. MarlinFive54 July 18, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    The world might be going down in flames sure enough, but was just out back in the garden, and have cukes coming out of my you know what. Those f—-rs are multiplying exponentially. And have that Russian lass coming over tonite to instruct us how to make pickles, Russian style.

  62. maineiac July 18, 2011 at 12:42 pm #

    jgalt6 is one seriously messed up person, but alas, a perfect product of the pure lunacy that pours out during the 24/7 hate that is otherwise known as RW radio. Just how many insane idiots like him exist out there is the question.

  63. jgalt6 July 18, 2011 at 12:43 pm #

    And as a libtard, I am sure you will be among the crowd that targets anyone with a nice car and home. With your obvious sense of self-annointed superiority, you no doubt feel entitled to take what you want, in the manner of Demoncrats and libtards nationwide. When your messiah, Obummer, calls out his leftist loons to create mayhem, be very careful, as his plans to incite violence on the borde through Fast and Furious, and to blame gunowners, have backfired and further awakened the dissenters in our once-great country. Because of Hussein, Soros, and fruitcakes like you, they are stocking up on firearms and ammunition, the very thing libtards abhor and fear.

  64. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 12:47 pm #

    Yo Teddy my man, You can’t tape the Poeleaz, where you think you are, in America? SHEEET! They be here to protec us an stuff. As I’ve stated in the past, there is a new breed of young officers out there. Many do a fine job and are stuck in a hard place. Many others crack heads and ask questions later. I fear that as time meanders forward the latter type of behavior will prevail. Now take off that stinky ass diaper and get on the gotdam plane.

  65. jgalt6 July 18, 2011 at 12:50 pm #

    To the contrary Maniac, I am quite together and well aware of the danger posed by your ilk. The only insanity comes from libtards and marxists, who truly believe, like you, that redistribution and strangulating taxation is the only way, despite the history of failure of your leftist ways. I would love to debate you, but I am quite aware that your pomposity and bluster hides your lack of intellectual heft, so common to leftist loons. Your handle says it all, but your arrogance did not allow you to understand your own posting. Now go get your welfare check and pick up your government-supplied food rations for the day Maniac.

  66. Cash July 18, 2011 at 12:53 pm #

    West coast, I think whoever wrote that bit is going around and around. IMO the reason that fiat money works is a general acceptance of it as a medium of exchange and as a store of wealth.
    IMO the functional difference for the federal govt between a bank note (by bank note I take it to mean a dollar bill) and a treasury security is that the govt pays civil servants, military people, social security recipients etc in bank notes or dollar bills whether in electronic or paper form. The reason? Soldiers, civil servants etc can’t go to the grocery store and buy groceries with treasury securities.
    I take your point though that the govt could “legitimately” buy stuff with money it prints out of thin air. As you imply why not just cut to the chase? Why this kabuki between the Federal Reserve and the Treasury?
    There’s an apparent absence of savers with cash in the bank who are willing to use their cash to buy treasuries. I’ve read (can’t remember the source) that 70% of current federal deficits are paid for by the Federal Reserve creating money and using this money to buy treasuries. I guess that means the Chinese are backing off financing US govt debt.
    They could of course massively cut govt spending. What are the odds? Slim to nil at this point. And of course the price to everyone with things as they are will be inflation. Just watch it edge up and up and up.

  67. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 12:54 pm #

    Oh Fabian, my dogs ears just perked up. Did you post another comment. Nice work , Silver is up over 40 ballons today. I guess if you had held your position you could have paid back your Grammy the money you borrowed to feed your gerbil.

  68. Vlad Krandz July 18, 2011 at 12:57 pm #

    The Muslims in Denmark are 5% of the population and use 40% of the social services. These people are unsafe at any speed and got to go. By any means necessary. And the people who brought them in without any mandate from the people should be brought to trial.

  69. Niels Laughlin July 18, 2011 at 12:59 pm #

    Borders Books will be sold to liquidators! What am I going to do with my afternoons a couple times a week?

  70. Cash July 18, 2011 at 1:05 pm #

    I am guessing that the “Arab Spring” is mostly CIA “fun and games” as a push to a job building war. – Sub
    Seriously bad guess.
    I think that you drastically overestimate American power. I hate to break it to you but the world isn’t just about Americans. Sometimes what happen out there has got bugger all to do with you and you guys are just as much bystanders as everyone else.

  71. sevenmmm July 18, 2011 at 1:09 pm #

    Acid dissolving ideas worthy of praise.
    Never fear, Americans are in such a tizzy for the next dopamine surge they won’t notice the fallout. Instead of buying a new car, they will be quite happy scrapping the cheese off a dumpster found Domino’s box.

  72. jrheadrick1 July 18, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    You are right about most things, and dead wrong about others.
    The bailout of world economies is just around the bend. But, the bailout will be temporary. Like a dead-cat-bounce. (No offense to kitties). It is temporary because we never loaded the upcoming generations with high-performance offspring.
    As the USA goes temporarily out of business, the parasites will be constantly looking for a new host. I am not a dam bit interested. You parasites have sucked my blood for far too long.
    Bitter? Dam right. I am a veteran… a bitter veteran. And, if I were called on tomorrow to don my US Air Force uniform, I’d have to say…’kiss my ass.’
    Many of you have a rendezvous with Jesus… whether you are a believer or not. Its a one way trip I speak of here.
    You cannot clutter up a nation with the likes of todays American, and expect a different outcome. Ain’t happening. You are nuts for thinking so.
    Crash it. Lets start over, with the quality that remains. This will be long, broad and deep.
    Stay tuned.
    Joe Headrick

  73. mccro8 July 18, 2011 at 1:11 pm #

    Oh, so Europe looks a lot like an asshole banker, and probably has a history of unreported sexual assaults trailing them. America has tattoos.
    Don’t know wtf Kunstler’s ongoing problem with working class Americans. Does he actually know any of these people he keeps ripping on? I’ve known plenty, they aren’t all morons.

  74. jgalt6 July 18, 2011 at 1:13 pm #

    I respect your feelings on this, but you should re-think your position on owning silver. Will you still feel this way when it hits $100 per ounce? With the fed printing money based on nothing, the dollar lessens in value on a daily basis. Despite the idiot Bernanke’s comment to Congressman Ron Paul that gold is not money, nothing could be further from the truth, as he and his economic thugs fully understand. Read about Weimar Germany, if you have not already, and where we are headed. If anything, Jim is too understated about our coming nightmare. Buy gold and silver, but not through sllowing someone else to “allegedly” hold it in trust.

  75. welles July 18, 2011 at 1:13 pm #

    yep, the Democrats would have solved it all.

  76. jrheadrick1 July 18, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

    You are correct, also. A third or so are good, solid people. He is basing his opinion on people of his own ilk, and the ‘dumbing-down’ of the people world-wide that they have fomented. From the white house to the outhouse, the deliberate ‘rot’ appears caused by the international control of the banker elites like the rothchilds etc.
    Yes, international. The banking cabal.

  77. welles July 18, 2011 at 1:21 pm #

    yep, gotta agree, life is pretty tenacious, despite all the clusterphuqqtness in europe/US smart folks just need to do basic things like secure (aka grow) some of their own food, set up a solar panel or two, get some water supply shored up.
    and drop out.
    hell, what do you need, a phreaking cadillac or something to eat and some water?
    entertainment? what’s wrong with a good old fashioned square dance with the lasses? by lantern light?
    who said the long emergency can’t be fun?
    peace peaceniks

  78. Cash July 18, 2011 at 1:26 pm #

    Excellent post. But I wonder whether having lost two generations of their best and brightest and basically taken a pass on reproducing that Europe has it to create more monstrous political movements and regimes or whether they’re just tapped out. Maybe they’ve lost their fight and can’t and won’t anymore.

  79. bossier22 July 18, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    Before 1965, my growing up lifestyle was much more simple both materially and entertainment wise. We seemed to have a good amount of fun. More socializing in person.

  80. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 1:33 pm #

    Well for one thing Fabulicious, you will never have and never will own silver, because you live in your gramma’s basement. If you want to own any Ag you will have to gnaw it off the solder joints on the plumbing. Or maybe have your pet gerbil do it for you. I hear they like to gnaw on stuff. Of course you would be the expert on that subject. First take him out of his gerbil hole, which I ASSume is up your shiney pink sphincter. I aam also assuming that you do have indoor plumbing. Most people in the western world do today. If you don’t have indoor plumbing maybe you can pull some of the amalgrams out of your sisters mouth. She only has a couple of teeth left anyway. She can still share a blowme and white bread sandwich with you. Bye now!

  81. Nickelthrower July 18, 2011 at 1:36 pm #

    The US has defaulted on its debt obligations at least 10 times in its brief history. Though some may not consider Nixon’s decoupling of the dollar from gold in 1971 a default, I do. A promise to pay in gold was changed to a promise to pay in, well, nothing.
    Roosevelt did the same thing in 1933 with the Gold Reserve Act whereas dollars could no longer be directly converted into gold. Worse still, gold was confiscated from the public. That, my friends, was a default.
    There have been defaults going all the way back to the first Continental Congress.
    This current scare is just that – a scare. These are financial terrorists and fear is the weapon of choice for any terrorist whether it be Bin Laden or Bernanke.

  82. welles July 18, 2011 at 1:37 pm #

    i pay for everything with cash. hard to do, but you become inured to it.
    makes you smarter too, gotta figure things out in multiple permutations, instead of just swiping plastic like an automaton.
    peace peaceniks

  83. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 1:44 pm #

    Speaking strictly as the douche-bag which you consider me. . Who will want your pieces of paper with green ink on them? Not me, the feds can print all they want. Sure you made funny- money as a day-trader. That shit WILL be worthless. I wouldn’t give ya a tomato for a hundred dollar bill once the dollar devalues. I would give ya a basket for a GAE however.

  84. Vlad Krandz July 18, 2011 at 1:56 pm #

    Look how the police tried to disarm the citizens of New Orleans when gangs of thugs were running rampant. It bodes ill for the future. Will they fire on citizens demanding change when things get really bad? Absolutely.

  85. metuselah July 18, 2011 at 1:57 pm #

    The Muslims in Denmark are 5% of the population and use 40% of the social services. These people are unsafe at any speed and got to go. By any means necessary.
    No. What you will do is provide them some more Jihadistani states in Europe and the US. There will be no double standards in the UN.

  86. mila59 July 18, 2011 at 2:03 pm #

    Look into the Transition Town movement if you are interested in something “proactive” in terms of dealing with an economic collapse (you can google it). Richard Heinberg ( is someone who talks about positive steps to take. I don’t think anyone sees a way to put a stop to the changes coming down the road, but different thinkers see different possible outcomes.

  87. montsegur July 18, 2011 at 2:04 pm #

    Cash: “Maybe they’ve lost their fight and can’t and won’t anymore.”
    Cash, perhaps some of the nations. It was a hard century.
    But the Russians, I doubt it. I suspect they’ve still got at least one more hard fight in them.

  88. mila59 July 18, 2011 at 2:04 pm #

    You said it brother.

  89. Grouchy Old Girl July 18, 2011 at 2:05 pm #

    Is it the heat or just the dumbfounded realization and horror that JHK is right, whether he got the timing correct or not? Either way, the crazies are out in force today and certainly illustrate the failure of intellect in American society.
    When the comments degenerate this quickly into name calling and silly rants it’s time to move on. Is nobody capable of intelligent debate on this blog anymore?

  90. Grouchy Old Girl July 18, 2011 at 2:09 pm #

    My apologies to the posters who have something constructive to say, there are a few. Just wishing we could find a way for the thingie that processes comments to reject anything that uses made-up words like “libtard” or calls Obama Hussein. That would eliminate most of the garbage from this site.

  91. progress,conserve July 18, 2011 at 2:11 pm #

    Nice week’s work, JHK – and thanks for throwing this CFN blog party again this week.
    Personally, I think you led with your very best material in this week’s installment:
    “Going broke fast is a very compelling problem. For ordinary people it tends to induce chicken-with-no-head syndrome – a mad burst of pointless locomotion ending in sudden collapse.”
    I just got back from a family reunion/vacation to the US Gulf coast – and “chicken-with-no-head syndrome” seems particularly apropos to describe the National Mood, as presently manifested in this country.
    We may be a frivolous generation, in a frivolous land, with all that entails – but, dayuumn!, taking a family vacation is still a serious business, for most citizens.

  92. progress,conserve July 18, 2011 at 2:22 pm #

    Concur, Grouch! Most of the real swill is coming from Fab/Toot – and from those who attempt to engage him in any meaningful way.
    RT, that was a good link you provided on recognizing a drowning person. Everybody who goes out around natural bodies of water should take a look at it, and – as you say – file it away for future reference.
    But, IMO, it’s OK to engage FAB as a laundry detergent – but not as a poster of any depth or thoughtfulness.He may be right occasionally, but why look for it among the nastiness?
    OK – standing by for incoming “F*cktard Torpedo.”

  93. Pangolin July 18, 2011 at 2:28 pm #

    For over a thousand years after the old Roman Empire fell people still marched around Europe waving eagle banners while their self-appointed emperors called themselves some variant of
    ‘Caeser’. The Kaisers and Czars of eastern europe being only the most recent iterations.
    We’re going to drag the muddy corpse of capitalism around for a while and proclaim it’s rise from the dead every political season for at least a few centuries. Maybe we’ll get it right this time and string up every banker who charges interest on debt.
    One can always hope.

  94. Cash July 18, 2011 at 2:28 pm #

    Holy smokes Mont is it ever great to hear from you.
    You’re probably right. The Russians have long been known as great, howling drunkards but Ivan is a deep patriot and he’s a great, howling heroic drunkard.

  95. MarlinFive54 July 18, 2011 at 2:34 pm #

    “Ivan is a deep patriot and he’s a great howling drunkard” — Cash
    And I might add he knows how to shoot better than he knows how to text.

  96. pequiste July 18, 2011 at 2:37 pm #

    I concur with all who think that rather than slow-motion disintegration of The American Empire, it shall be almost in the “twinkling of an eye.” Our Technotronic Civilization is vulnerable in too many ways regarding electricity even more than petroleum. Virtually all aspects of modern life need plug and wall socket for the juice (Jim, get that knife out of the toaster.) Hence, when the power goes off….entire system kaput. The trigger will be the switch, as it were, something our leaders have been asleep at for decades. Recall the great blackout 2003? Northeast U.S. and Canada, 55 million subscribers in the dark. No computers, HVAC and no telEVILvision. The whole enchilada is based on those little electrons running about in a rickety grid that is 50+ years old. And don’t forget very, very, very vulnerable to the likes of nasty terrorists, Tea Partyers, or corporate Satanists. No TSA to protect it – too many nodes anyway. Civilization hangs on a slender thread. The New World Disorder is coming and sooner than we know. Go to the beach, buy a motorcycle, spend quality time with those you love and appreciate, and don’t forget to pray to God.
    P.S. And that natty European gentleman you speak of will likely be trying to transport a tidy collection of diamonds, kruggerands and a few pictures, with his pretty mistress, to B.V.I, Martinique, or perhaps Buenos Aires, on his Posillipo Technema 95.

  97. third_martini_banter July 18, 2011 at 2:45 pm #

    Guten Morgen Mein Kamarade Herr Kunstler!
    Here is column by Missouri Academic Herr Doktor-Professor Hudson arguing that Obama is wolf-in-sheep’s-clothing who is disemboweling American Social Security & Medikare far more effectively than any Tea Partei President could ever get away with:
    Alles Ist Gut, Ja?

  98. ffkling July 18, 2011 at 2:56 pm #

    Sorry “Paranoia Agent”, but the Americans are not morally superior to Europe. Before you continue with the Nazi rant let me remind you that it was the USA that perpetrated the genocide of the North American Native American’s, then proceeded to steal their land while relegating the small fragments of tribes not exterminated to concentration camps more commonly known as “reservations.” Yes, 10 million Native American people who lived in complete harmony with their natural world were wiped off the face of the earth so that the USA could fulfill its “Manifest Destiny.”

  99. steve July 18, 2011 at 2:57 pm #

    Wow – England will dissolve in a religious war? There isn’t any religion remaining in England, other than a few crapped-out Moslems. With whom are they going to war?
    And for those who are so sure that we have eons of time before the stuff hits the fan, when the deleveraging arrives in earnest (any time now) that’s the end of this ball game. But, then, as some sage opines, we can turn to warm Al Gore for salvation – oh happy day!

  100. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    Just cuz somebody is a a drunkard does not make him a bad person! Look at myself for example! As far as Fabian goes I am back on the attack!He would do well to try and score some really more shitty hits from the 60’s. Than maybe he could move out of his Grammy’s basement. I sincerely hope his parents did not name him after the fairy tale Hollywood hero. “Fabian”. I recall from a couple of weeks back we went over gay marriage. If I were gay I would hook up with Fabulicious in a minute. He has great hair!Than again I probably could not consummate the civil union because of that freakin’ gerbil!

  101. soak July 18, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    “Maybe we’ll get it right this time and string up every banker who charges interest on debt. One can always hope.”
    We may get some help from Islam, one of the world’s fastest growing religions. Islamic Sharia law prohibits the payment or acceptance of specific interest or fees (known as Riba or usury) for loans of money.
    Sharia law also says investing in businesses that provide goods or services considered contrary to Islamic principles is also Haraam (forbidden).
    Muslim jurists are unanimous in their opinion that full payment of the purchase price is key for Salam to exist (both parties at peace). The idea of Salam is to provide a mechanism that ensures that the seller has the liquidity they expected from entering into the transaction in the first place. This is necessary so that the buyer can show that they are not entering into debt with a second party in order to eliminate the debt with the first party, an act prohibited under Sharia.
    No wonder the imperialist/capitalist/judaeo-christian religions are so set against Islam. It would ruin their game of organized theft (usury).
    There is hope Islam will be victorious and financial exploitation of common folk will end.

  102. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 3:08 pm #

    Russian Lass you say! I ‘ve got a pickle for her. Blonde haired I hope? Flame on ladies!

  103. helen highwater July 18, 2011 at 3:13 pm #

    You know what Fabian, you are a nasty-mouthed little prick.

  104. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 3:19 pm #

    Fabian, my dog ears just perked up. I really should get the ticks removed. Would you like to come around and pull the clingy little arachnid bastards out? Or perhaps you could run a warm salt water douche through them. I know you would enjoy that. You could drink the water afterwards. You might even absorb some of my cerebrospinal fluid in the process.

  105. mow July 18, 2011 at 3:33 pm #

    since when do the irish need a reason to get drunk

  106. third_martini_banter July 18, 2011 at 3:36 pm #

    I know someone who will edit these comments as a service to you, at no charge. Please contact me if interested.

  107. soak July 18, 2011 at 3:49 pm #

    Jim, you might want to take third_martini_banter up on his/her offer. Unless this space is deliberately designed to illustrate clusterfuck, it might be nice to have some rules. Here is an example from another space: Community Rules
    Rule 1: Be nice!
    Rule 2: Be honest
    Rule 3: One username per person
    Rule 4: Post to the appropriate forums
    Rule 5: No cross-posting
    Rule 6: No ALL CAPS posting
    Rule 7: Maintain a valid email address
    Rule 8: Keep it clean
    Rule 9: Cite your sources
    Rule 10: No bandwidth theft or hot linking
    Rule 11: Write right!
    Rule 12: Do not contact authors on behalf of
    Rule 13: Members must have 25+ posts to vote in book polls
    Rule 14: No preaching or proselytizing

  108. UnHolyGuy July 18, 2011 at 3:52 pm #

    Whohoo Tattoo’s in the first paragraph again, I think that is 4 blogs running!!!
    The Hate on Ink continues
    Da Plane boss…

  109. dale July 18, 2011 at 3:59 pm #

    “What am I going to do with my afternoons a couple times a week?”
    Try the library. You’ve already paid for the contents via taxes so you may as well enjoy it.
    Yeah! them galdang liberal communists, wasting all that corporate tax money on them stupid libraries. Who the fuck reads anymore anyway? Privatize the fuckers I say, pay a fee for every page you read, ya bunch of deadbeats, if ya hada job ya wouldn’t be hanging out at no library no how. You’re all communists I tell ya. fucktards.

  110. ctemple July 18, 2011 at 4:02 pm #

    There is also hope that Jimbo will ban you permenently, and you can take you anti Christian views and cram them up your multi colored rear end Ese

  111. soak July 18, 2011 at 4:08 pm #

    There is also hope that Jimbo will ban you permenently, and you can take you anti Christian views and cram them up your multi colored rear end Ese
    The word is spelled “permanently”
    If you had bothered to read my argument, you would find that it anti-usury, not anti-Christian.
    I know Christians. Some of my best friends are Christian. You, ctemple, are no Christian.

  112. soak July 18, 2011 at 4:11 pm #

    If you had bothered to read my argument, you would find it is anti-usury, not anti-Christian.

  113. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 4:15 pm #

    Well I killed that organ years ago. So I guess you are on top of me there!

  114. soak July 18, 2011 at 4:16 pm #

    There is also hope that Jimbo will ban you
    Yes, I imagine that hope is shared by many who cannot stand to read viewpoints differing from their own.
    We live in a pluralistic society, Ese. CFN, as an uncensored forum, allows for all kinds of expression, some of which I find very distasteful.
    I am open-minded and enlightened by some of the hatred and anger expressed toward my congenially expressed opinions. Insight is thereby gained about clusterfuck.

  115. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 4:18 pm #

    I said to my Brain, It’s either you or me. Let’s get this over ASAP. Beer, drugs, sex and rock and roll. I was beat before I started.

  116. tucsonspur July 18, 2011 at 4:27 pm #

    Jim, you remind me of a previous post of mine, “Lay me out on a slab at Macy’s…” More to your point, regarding the Europeans, even the magnificently attired Beau Brummell died penniless.
    Here, Bernie Madoff, although maybe not the best example of haute couture, mimicks the ponzi nation as a whole and its well deserved fashion, the orange jump suit.

  117. Bustin J July 18, 2011 at 4:46 pm #

    Fab sed, “” Yes, 10 million Native American people who lived in complete harmony with their natural world…”
    What a revisionist idiot. . Each tribe hated the rest and worked hard at killing each other. ”
    There was definitely a wind-out of sorts culminating in the European arrival by the middle of last millenium.
    A first-hand account can be found here
    Quite an interesting depiction of the variety of tribal types in North America, from savage to civil.
    Around where I live, there is a local effort to preserve the meadow ecosystems the Indians maintained through controlled burning of the forest understory. Without maintenance (and due to development of sprawl, restrictions on land-clearing, or burning in general, these prairies are disappearing, being replaced by dense new growth including invasives.
    Even though the natives had a sure-fire way to create and maintain these prairies (controlled burn), these organizations can’t- or won’t- even imagine doing the same thing. So they all pile into their cars and go out and pull weeds directly with huge weed pullers.
    A lot of internal combustion, good touchy-feelyness, and a complete waste compared to the casual and low-intensity method the natives used. Modern people are too techno-oriented to see the obvious low-tech solution, too nervous and silly about fire to understand the original way was the best way, and of course, the patchwork quilt of land ownership prevents a simple, central vision of stewardship in any form.

  118. soak July 18, 2011 at 4:47 pm #

    Beau Brummel wore pink sidewinders and bright orange pants, a garish combination not comparable to European dress, and halfway to the orange jump suit of Bernie Madoff, ese.

  119. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 4:51 pm #

    God Bless ya son!

  120. asia July 18, 2011 at 4:52 pm #

    Its a Jokey…The army was MEN, now its [in SE eyes]
    chicks and gays.

  121. asia July 18, 2011 at 4:56 pm #

    The important point is the ability to breed..
    5 child families to 1 child white christian families.
    And the ability to keep flooding into Eurabia by the millions.
    I went to a lecture by an Loyala Marymount Prof..a
    Muslim from Toronto who told his adoring fans:

  122. asia July 18, 2011 at 4:59 pm #

    What you disapprove of Soros and his ‘Open Society’?

  123. bossier22 July 18, 2011 at 5:10 pm #

    Muslims don’t believe in interests payments. Bribes, no problem.

  124. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 5:13 pm #

    Well I would be guessing that your wife wood. Oh wait a minute you have a gerbil and not a woman. Sorry for the missunderstanding.

  125. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    Check out Fabian’s cell phone

  126. soak July 18, 2011 at 5:17 pm #

    2.7 Million U.S. Green Jobs…And Growing
    by Patricia Marchetti, July 15th, 2011
    Bad news for the “hate-America, no green shoots” crowd.
    26% of clean economy jobs reside in manufacturing
    More bad news for those who say “manufacturing is dead in the USA”

  127. jackieblue2u July 18, 2011 at 5:17 pm #


  128. jackieblue2u July 18, 2011 at 5:20 pm #

    Yeah my Life stuns me. PTSD.
    I do kid alot, but this thing called my marriage, well it isn’t really a marriage.
    It’s always his way or the highway.
    I won’t say much more.
    Thanks for getting it.
    I manage to have a life outside of it on my own, with friends.
    Thanks for thinking of me.
    I will try and stay on topic, I just wanted a couple people who ‘know’ me to not be in suspense.

  129. soak July 18, 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    Islam has prohibited bribery and that it is severe against all those who participate in it.
    The proliferation of bribery in a society leads to corruption and oppression: unjust decisions are made and just ones are blocked, undeserving persons are given chances and deserving ones are passed over, and the spirit of greed permeates the society in place of the spirit of dutifulness.
    The Messenger of Allah (peace be on him) cursed the one who offers the bribe, the one who receives it, and the one who arranges it.

  130. soak July 18, 2011 at 5:31 pm #

    Didn’t you hear Obammy?
    Are you referring to the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces as “Obammy”?

  131. soak July 18, 2011 at 5:56 pm #

    I’m referring to the “war criminal” whom you maintain should be tried for war crimes.
    Do you agree President Obama is a war criminal? You should have more respect for the office of the President, even for war criminals who hold that office.

    The programme of drone strikes was ramped up under the Obama administration. Last year saw the greatest number of attacks, 118, while there have been 45 so far in 2011, according to a tally kept by the New America Foundation, a thinktank based in Washington

    US government lawyers argue that drone strikes are conducted on a “solid legal basis”, however, Stafford Smith said there has to be a war going on in order for any of these strikes to be legal.
    “Outside a combat zone the US has no possible, plausible legal basis to conduct these drone strikes. They think they can get away with it. This process is meant to make sure that they can’t,” Stafford Smith said.
    “I challenge anyone to go to the families of those innocent victims in the [Afghanistan-Pakistan] border regions and say: ‘It’s legal to bomb your homes and kill your children’. It is not, obviously.”

  132. tucsonspur July 18, 2011 at 5:57 pm #

    Man,just picture the cat strutting down Bond street towards Picadilly, so colorfully bedecked!
    Maybe he hooked up with the “werewolf of London” since his hair was perfect. I’d like to meet his tailor. Waaaa-ooooo!

  133. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 5:58 pm #

    hey Fab, Don’t diss the ladies you freakin, pussy!I will pound your puny ass into the 405 with my 76″ 230 lb frame. And that ain’t butter were talkin. bout.You did good in the market last week genious. Gold is $1605 and silver is almost $41.00. Keep up the good work. Where should I send the loan for your gerbil bites? Give me an address. I’ll be there, Asswipe! Gramma can pick-up some more Alpo with the check. Better yet come by western Ma and Myself, Marlin , and Ozone can use ya for target practice. Sorry Marlin and Ozone. I don’t need the help. Just thought you would enjoy the fun! Shit, Now I am really on the watch list. Fuck-em!

  134. soak July 18, 2011 at 6:02 pm #

    Arrest of ex-CIA lawyer sought over drone use
    There is no legal justification for killing children in Pakistan’s sovereign territory. The United States has not declared war against Pakistan.

  135. soak July 18, 2011 at 6:03 pm #

    I don’t have to picture it.
    I saw the movie, Malcolm X.

  136. helen highwater July 18, 2011 at 6:13 pm #

    It would be nice if you racists stopped calling Barack Obama “Hussein”.

  137. dale July 18, 2011 at 6:28 pm #

    Our library levy recently failed. They had to cut back on some of the fluff. Its called accountability. What a fucking concept.
    Yeah….dem commie “librarians” always flying around in dem library jets, handin’ out dos books to folks who ain’t even got no library card! Damn straight we need accountability, three stikes yer out fer overdue books, should be a felony. Fuckin’ tax cut will take care of that there problem, I expecked, just drown them librarians in the bath tub with the rest them useless gobment types. Hell, just drown the whole dang library! Get old Beckie Boy on the problem, he knows which eisle dem commies are jerking off in. Probably where them Nazi picture books is.

  138. tucsonspur July 18, 2011 at 6:45 pm #

    Interesting. I didn’t see it, and I wonder as with all movies, how much fact, how much fiction?
    I’ve been meaning to post regarding the assassination of Malcolm X, involvement of Elijah Mohammed, and death threats to Ali, preceeding the Liston fight and germane to some previous posts. Hoping to do so later.
    You probably know more about it than I do.

  139. soak July 18, 2011 at 6:54 pm #

    Barack and Hussein are Semitic words. Americans have been named with Semitic names since the founding of the republic. Fourteen of our 43 presidents have had Semitic names.
    Barack is a Semitic word meaning “to bless” as a verb or “blessing” as a noun. In its Hebrew form, barak, it is found all through the Bible. It first occurs in Genesis 1:22 — “And God blessed (??re??) them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.”
    Barak appears many times in each book of the Bible.
    “Hussein” is from the Semitic word hasan, meaning “good” or “handsome.” Husayn is the diminutive, affectionate form.
    Barack Obama’s middle name is in honor of his grandfather, Hussein, a secular resident of Nairobi, Kenya. Americans may think of Saddam Hussein when they hear the name, but that is like thinking of Stalin when you hear the name Joseph. There have been lots of Husseins in history, from the grandson of the prophet Mohammed, a hero who touched the historian Gibbon, to King Hussein of Jordan, one of America’s most steadfast allies in the 20th century.
    But in Obama’s case, it is just a reference to his grandfather.

  140. soak July 18, 2011 at 7:00 pm #

    I don’t know how many presidents we have had, but fourteen of them before Obama had semitic names.

  141. progress,conserve July 18, 2011 at 7:03 pm #

    Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. was a Kenyan senior governmental economist and the father of U.S. President Barack Obama. He is a central subject in his son’s memoir, Dreams from My Father.,_Sr.
    Since this information is from Wikipedia, it must not be trustworthy. jeeze.

  142. offred July 18, 2011 at 7:27 pm #

    We’re rapidly slouching toward the Republic of Gilead.'s_Tale

  143. Solar Guy July 18, 2011 at 8:10 pm #

    “Imagine a world where nobody gets paid…”
    Still up on the roof installing Solar Panels…
    Makes me feel like part of the solution, not the problem…
    Just did our first PV+EV install. A 25 panel 5.5kW system will be good for ~20,000 EV Miles in the Volt.
    Planning on graduating from Gardener to Farmer next year! Whatever that means…
    That is all.
    Cheers JHK! Keep your chin up partner.

  144. BeantownBill July 18, 2011 at 8:23 pm #

    “The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.”

  145. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 8:27 pm #

    i keep my books way overdue. Sure it costs me but as I see it they can keep a cash flow and pay for heat and new books.

  146. rippedthunder July 18, 2011 at 8:30 pm #

    keeps the money out of the general cash fund of the city.I don’t need a bridge I want books.

  147. mika. July 18, 2011 at 8:39 pm #

    barack = lightening
    brahah = blessing
    bireh = he has blessed
    birhah = she has blessed
    birah = capital city

  148. mika. July 18, 2011 at 8:40 pm #

    bira = beer 😀

  149. Vlad Krandz July 18, 2011 at 8:50 pm #

    Democratic Party hacks like Bill Clinton claim that asking for ID at the polling booth is a return to Jim Crow. I hope everyone can agree that this is beneath contempt.
    How dare that people be asked who they are – or to prove that they are who they say they are – or that they are citizens at all. It’s just Law and Order – a prerequisite for Civilization. But if it inconveniences party hacks, screw it. Perhaps they are trying for the Undocumented Vote.

  150. jerry July 18, 2011 at 8:51 pm #

    I have begun to believe that the United States, especially those in the Republican/TeaParty camp, has turned into a blind alley and found itself in a Vladimir Putin style Communist Oligarchy.
    That is where the state sells off all its public services and departments, and assets to the private sector in order for the Plutocrats to paid off, and later, hired on by the private sector predators. The Oligarchs then control the government, as well as own it.
    It is no longer a nightmare, but a reality. This is what the people have voted for.

  151. TehBigPiktur July 18, 2011 at 8:54 pm #

    “Europe is arguably worse off money-wise, more broke, flimsier, crapped out, crippled, and paralyzed. Sad, because in outward appearance Europe is – how shall I put this? – better turned out than America. Europe is a fit, silver-haired gentleman…”
    Just returned from 10 days in France and Germany. James I came away convinced they’re in a better place than we are – I came away observing a more civil society than ours, one probably more durable once TSHTF. Civility seems to have value. Small details – signs on the trains suggest that cellphone users move to the doorway so as not to disturb their fellow passengers (and they do, too…even if their fellow passengers are just American tourists.) The small markets and storefronts are as inviting and prevalent and unremarkable as a farmer’s market is a novelty here. The man at the counter of the fromagerie, the bakery, the server at the café – they took time to make a monoglot American couple comfortable and enjoy the moment – they took pride in what they did for a living, not just killing time working as an ‘associate’ in an establishment they had no respect for and had no intention of staying at. The small business (and by extension the idea of functioning, local economy) seems to be in good condition. French products – food, wine, architecture, even 50 years into globalism still retains some of its artisanal quality.
    I came away a Francophile. France will suffer in TLE, as everyone will. They certainly have their problems now – energy scarcity, disenfranchised minorities, the unasked-for dead weight of four gamed and failing EU economies. Their problems will multiply there as they will anywhere. But I’ll bet a decent sum that France will fare far better than a lot of places of the US.
    Cheers, and see you next week

  152. Grouchy Old Girl July 18, 2011 at 9:00 pm #

    Soak, you’re a fine addition to this forum, if indeed you are new to it. Your approach to the world is a sensible one and I enjoy reading your posts. It’s hard to ignore the shit disturbers, as we Canadians would call them, but we must try. They just feed on our indignation.
    Today’s most egregious insult to the President is calling him Obammy, that is really beneath contempt. If you don’t like his policies, then say so, but that name is deliberately racist and inflaming to many people while at the same time says nothing substantive about the man. What it says about the poster is something we all know about him already and I won’t dwell on that.
    Anyhoo, good to meet you Soak, and hope you stick around. Stay cool, friend.

  153. Vlad Krandz July 18, 2011 at 9:07 pm #

    So are you claiming that Librarians aren’t one of the most Liberal Professions in America? And as we all know, Liberal has become code for Communist.
    The Communists rely on the secret “second set of books” that Master Seargeant Thomas Ball discovered. They effectively provide an end run around the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Arresting a man on any woman’s whim is one such protocol. And if the charge of rape proves false? She walks away scott free while the man’s reputation lies in tatters.
    That’s just one such protocol. Others exist in regards to water, food, the raising of animals, lightbulbs etc. If they can, they will make gardening illegal. And any water on your land will not be your’s but their’s. Lemonade stands have been banned and the proceeds confiscated. Every knee must bend and every head must bow. After all, we don’t exist – right, Dale?

  154. soak July 18, 2011 at 9:18 pm #

    Grouchy Old Girl, thank you for your kind words. I do plan on sticking around and I’m glad to know I’m not the only one who values my contributions to CFN!
    I also appreciate your posts. We seem to both be liberal, though you add a Canadian perspective I appreciate.

  155. Vlad Krandz July 18, 2011 at 9:24 pm #

    Obama himself is a racist as is obvious from his writings and actions. He only likes Whites who are willing to betray their own Race.
    For example, he was was living with his Grandmother at one point. She was harassed by a Black Bum once or twice. Because she didn’t express this incident properly, he relates that he was outraged at the time. For her safety he gave not a fig.

  156. Vlad Krandz July 18, 2011 at 9:31 pm #

    Not that I’m against it in this case, but emphasizing the Hussein is pointing out the alien cultural background of Obama – which is not completely untrue by any means.
    Remember how Bob Dole you used to make a big deal about pronouncing the head of the UN’s name: Boutros Boutros Ghali. The strangeness of the name to our ears – especially the repeating first names was emphasized as a way of discrediting his critique of our policies.

  157. Vlad Krandz July 18, 2011 at 9:35 pm #

    I love you’re being here Auntie! You prove all my points. We are on the same side in a strange way. I feel like the European diplomat who got the Mongol to talk freely in front of Church officials about killing and raping after he had plied with him a few drinks.
    Now how bout you make me some pancakes.

  158. Vlad Krandz July 18, 2011 at 9:38 pm #

    You think the Muslims lived in Denmark or Europe 2000 years ago? Got any proof? It would be hard since Islam didn’t exist until the year 500 or so.

  159. piltdownman July 18, 2011 at 9:47 pm #

    I’m not sure if I’m right, but I think this is the first time you mentioned the “end of democracy.”
    And perhaps you are right.

  160. Grouchy Old Girl July 18, 2011 at 9:58 pm #

    SOAK, just so you know, I’m no liberal. I’m a dyed in the wool socialist pacifist citizen of the world. Our very right wing prime minister has declared open season on us real lefties so who knows how long I’ll be allowed on the internet spreading my crazed radical hippie ideas around?
    Finding JHK was a remarkable turn of events for me a couple of years ago. I feel like I must have been waiting for him and his writings and thinking for quite a few decades now. His beliefs mirror mine quite nicely only he can put them into focus so much better.
    Cheers to Jim and you too, Soak. Oh yeah, I’m also very Labour friendly.

  161. Grouchy Old Girl July 18, 2011 at 10:05 pm #

    Hey there, Progress, Conserve, I try hard to ignore the shit disturbers, a position you agreed with awhile back. Feeding their little egos by replying to them only inspires them to rise to greater ignorance and I have no use for them or their hatred. They are all a waste of skin.

  162. trippticket July 18, 2011 at 10:15 pm #

    “Planning on graduating from Gardener to Farmer next year!”
    My sincerest condolences…

  163. metuselah July 18, 2011 at 10:23 pm #

    Finance as warfare. Michael Hudson interviewed.
    Listen here:

  164. trippticket July 18, 2011 at 10:27 pm #

    “Modern people are too techno-oriented to see the obvious low-tech solution, too nervous and silly about fire to understand the original way was the best way, and of course, the patchwork quilt of land ownership prevents a simple, central vision of stewardship in any form.”
    My god, man, I think you’re finally coming to your senses! The idea that an animal can actually “own” the timeless land he squats ever so briefly upon is a good place to start revising our view of the world. But it’s what we got for now, so be creative!

  165. soak July 18, 2011 at 10:32 pm #

    Yes, “graduating” from horticulture to agriculture is a step backwards. Assuming agricultural tillage, fertilizer and monoculture, you will work more, disturb the environment more, and be subject to pest infestations that will tempt you to use petroleum-based pesticides. It is a lose-lose.
    Stick with horticulture.

  166. trippticket July 18, 2011 at 10:34 pm #

    Nothing but trolls and sock puppets. Nighty night to all the real people out there doing their best…

  167. bama neck July 18, 2011 at 10:50 pm #

    Mr. Kuntsler,
    While much of what you say rings true, sometimes your bitterness puts me off. However, I must say that the fourth paragraph in your latest column, the one that begins “Europe has run the money string to its bitter end …” is quite possibly the funniest thing I have read in the past 30 years.
    Keep writing.

  168. Shakazulu July 18, 2011 at 10:57 pm #

    “Third…. people would die in large numbers… having an unrestrained all out war . . .POOF all the elite’s problems are solved.”
    Agreed. The next big event in human history is not necessarily the coming economic collapse, which has been well-orchestrated by the Elites, but the World War. That will not only annihilate a good portion of the globe, but create the chaos out of which the New World Order will take complete control. Regardless of who launches the first missile, it will end up badly for the prols.

  169. Shakazulu July 18, 2011 at 11:03 pm #

    “it tends to induce chicken-with-no-head syndrome – a mad burst of pointless locomotion ending in sudden collapse.”
    I contend that this is exactly what has been going on in DC for fifty years or more. But have you ever seen how funny a running headless chicken can be? Disappointingly, the show lost its entertainment value long ago and now is simply tiring to watch.

  170. tombebien July 18, 2011 at 11:25 pm #

    How is it that when I visited this page there was an embedded Google ad for Goldman Sachs boasting about how it is helping families and businesses as they re-establish themselves in neighborhoods of New Orleans. It shows an African-American girl smiling ear to ear – presumably because Goldman Sachs is somehow altruistically looking after the best interest of her troubled but loving family.

  171. helen highwater July 18, 2011 at 11:31 pm #

    It’s racist because you don’t generally call somebody by their middle name unless you are making some sort of allusion to the fact that you think he is a Muslim or wish to equate him with Saddam Hussein. Did people ever call John F. Kennedy “Fitzgerald”? Didn’t think so. I recognize racism when I see it because I have been reading the comments here for several years now and it’s pretty obvious who the racists are. And I liked Auntie’s posts because it’s nice to see somebody take on some of the bozo posters here. If I were more eloquent I would do it myself.

  172. soak July 18, 2011 at 11:37 pm #

    Thank you, Metuselah.
    Here is a link for you:
    Imperial Decline: Multi-Billion-Dollar Terrorists and the Disappearing Middle Class by Prof. James Petras

  173. Vlad Krandz July 18, 2011 at 11:54 pm #

    GOG – Soak is just Asoka. Same old same old.

  174. Vlad Krandz July 18, 2011 at 11:59 pm #

    You’re saying that I’m Auntie Soak? Fuck you. You’re just too weak too accept the Truth of Black hatred. And just like Lucan, too proud and brittle to admit you’ve been SO wrong for SO long.
    If Minorities hate us like this, then Liberalism is nothing but a death trip. They do and it is.

  175. Vlad Krandz July 19, 2011 at 12:01 am #

    I love it! You’ve totally outed yourself as a White Anti-White Racist who supports the Genocide of her own Race. I am vindicated – as if there was ever any doubt.

  176. Vlad Krandz July 19, 2011 at 12:24 am #

    So am I Helen too? Give it a rest – you’ve been defeated. Your viewpoint is not only wrong but increasingly dangerous for our Country. Our Civilization is White and Western. Therefore Whites must retain control if we would retain any Civilization at all. The Elite think they can steal it and replace it with something else like the Grinch. It’s not going to work. Stop carrying their water, Prog.

  177. soak July 19, 2011 at 1:58 am #

    Give it a rest, Vlad. Week after week you turn the discussion to race and fear mongering: “Whites must retain control if we would retain any Civilization at all.”
    This kind of race baiting has been going on at least since Lothrop Stoddard wrote THE RISING TIDE OF COLOR AGAINST WHITE WORLD SUPREMACY in 1920.
    Actually before that Madison Grant wrote THE PASSING OF THE GREAT RACE OR THE RACIAL BASIS OF EUROPEAN HISTORY in 1916.
    People have been bemoaning the decline of European and USA hegemony for a hundred years now.
    Separatism lost. Racial integration won.
    Your ignorance of that fact is astounding.
    By the way, happy birthday Nelson Mandela, personification of the triumph over racial apartheid!

  178. Buck Stud July 19, 2011 at 2:16 am #

    I have noticed a certain disdain among women for men in decline, be it physical and/or mental health issues, monetary glitches, emotional strain or even death itself. For example, after my grandfather died my grandma never stopped complaining about him, which really took me by surprise. They were married over fifty years,and he never abused her, never drank or smoke, was a good provider and was emotionally available. He was also ‘not small in the pants’ and I know this because of our inevitable piss breaks on the side of the road somewhere between Medicine Bow and Casper on our way to the Miracle Mile on the North Platte River of central Wyoming. He left her a very nice free and clear house, more money they she could ever spend in the rest of her days, a funeral bill paid well in advance and a batch of children and grandchildren that adored her and helped in any manner she requested. His sin: he betrayed his masculinity and role by dying. Quite a stunning revelation when I finally cut through all the bitching.
    Women have us coming and going, all the live long days. Sexually captivating us in our youth – delirious over the Wild Thing – and emotionally enslaving us in our latter days – ‘when Mama ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy. That’s right – the Women Are Smarter!

  179. Vlad Krandz July 19, 2011 at 3:10 am #

    Yes Buck – it is undeniable. Men are the great Lovers by and large, not women. Their streak of “practicality” is just too big. And the Feds are on their side in divorce and children. If a woman really loves a man, she will give him a pre-nup.

  180. Alexandra July 19, 2011 at 5:49 am #

    Mornin’ all… hvad så?
    I’ve just got back from sailing once more in the Baltic… and sorry bad news from the front dearest Vladie. Muslims and their covered bonces were frequently fully visible in and around the Kopenhavn area, while I was there.
    As was that floating experiment of democracy The World…
    But I’d echo ‘TehBigPiktur’ Brian’s comment…
    Overall if I were to pick either the UK/USA or say Denmark as a place to live out ‘TLE’… for me defo the home of statuesque blondes (both genders) and uber-fresh-bacon, would win out!
    For those with any sea-salt curiosity as to where I ventured out into the deep-blue ocean twas here, and ideal idyll in fact for those seeking political solace.
    I travel a lot, and copious amounts of rubbish, fast-food, disposable anything with detritus lying around ever visible in a locale speaks ‘volumes’ about the type of people that would presumably call said place a home… ??
    (Which was why I preferred Scottsdale over Phoenix)
    But back to the ever-wise-wisdom of JHK… Yep money wise the €’zones now in grisly full blown free-fall…
    I’m off again in two weeks as it happens to France, Italy… then Spain. Two days of which will be spent sitting and sipping real coffee enjoying the vistas of Venice, then back over Biscay to Blighty.
    So I’ll report back on these visits to two of the very likely to default PIIGS, if you guys wish?
    Nice to see too though, the predictable panic of fleeing flotsam cash into Gold-n-Sliver once more, but that’s the trouble with forever blowing bubbles, at the end game stage.
    When you start to slide on the slippery teak deck of the heavily listing Titanic… there comes a point surely when you should just relax, smile broadly, and let the locked in tension out with a primal scream of…
    “OH F#CK IT!!”
    So why not shuffle up along side me, my dear cluster-f#cker-friends on rock-n-rolling deck chairs… quaff down another sharp dry martini and enjoy the final view!
    Alexandra xx

  181. Solar Guy July 19, 2011 at 6:57 am #

    Bad word choice… but good intentions…
    I really want to be a protege of you, TrippTicket…
    I want to help start 20 gardens instead of 10 next year
    I want to get my seeds right, plants right, and make everything jive nicely…
    I want to show kids how great it feels to just chill in the garden…and then pick out some food…
    I want the goats and chickens and all that too…
    When I said Farmer, that wasn’t the term… just the start of an idea, of stepping up the ante here. I want to have a solar heated greenhouse, and solar powered grow lights… how’s all that sound? 2010′ was the first time I’ve ever even had a garden, and this year I started everything from seed and couldn’t stop tilling and planting everywhere I went. I’ve learned so much already and I plan to study a lot this winter.
    Cheers to the real deal growers out there.

  182. lbendet July 19, 2011 at 7:01 am #

    When you start to slide on the slippery teak deck of the heavily listing Titanic… there comes a point surely when you should just relax, smile broadly, and let the locked in tension out with a primal scream of…
    “OH F#CK IT!!”
    I would love to join you! Ha-what else is there to do?
    Anyway you and tripp have opposite ways of dealing with the inevitable..
    Keep us posted on what’s going on in PIIG land and BTW, loved Denmark too when I went. Norway-pretty spectacular too–fjords and all.

  183. MarlinFive54 July 19, 2011 at 7:09 am #

    BBHMarc, what do you make of Alexandra’s posts, sailing round the seas in a small craft? Sometimes, 1000 miles out in the North Atlantic, tracking Soviet Subs, we’d come across small craft bobbing precariously in large seas, looking very vulnerable. We always tried to make contact to see if they needed any help. Thats the USA, always willing to lend a hand.
    Hey Auntie Soak, with your fake Negro dialect and provocative statements, give it up. You are too transparent to take seriously. It was funny at first, not so funny anymore.

  184. MarlinFive54 July 19, 2011 at 7:25 am #

    My theory, based upon a little cursory analysis:
    Old6699/Spider=Auntie Soak
    A hydra-headed monster, a weed in the fertile soil of CFN, here to bust balls, that’s all.

  185. popcine July 19, 2011 at 7:29 am #

    What do you mean, there’s no party?
    I thought this was a party. Hey, anybody
    out there want to party? No? Not even
    a constitutional convention?
    Don’t surrender when the war just started.

  186. bubbleheadMarc July 19, 2011 at 7:42 am #

    My last two posts have been eaten by the server somehow. First I told buckstud that older men should live alone. Then I responded to your comment on the yacht cruising Alexandra. In the submarines we had virtually no contact with yachts because we were hiding from everyone. For instance the captain once ran up to the conn in his pyjamas just becuase I spotted an airliner up at 40,000 feet through the periscope and he was afraid it was a Russian patrol aircraft which had detected us. In the merchants we used to spot yachts continually, especially in the MED. One time a sailboat went by crewed entirely by topless women! No, we never offered them assistance. We were hard hearted pirates of the military sealift command I guess. Post collapse being out to sea could be the best thing. The landlubbers are going to get hostile if their supply of junk food is interrrupted. Speaking of “soak” that was my nickname on a seismic crew back in the mid ’80s because I was the biggest alcoholic of the bunch, and the only worker from east of the Mississippi. Half the crew were former inmates at the Wyoming boy’s reform school! A wild bunch indeed. They would work fourteen hours per day then go get drunk until bar closing time. It was an honor to be regarded as the worst drunk by the likes of them, but then I had navy training in the alcohol department.

  187. MarlinFive54 July 19, 2011 at 8:11 am #

    “Post collapse being out to sea could be the best thing” — BBHMarc
    There is an interesting chapter in Cormac McCarthy’s ‘The Road’, when they finally make it to the coast (NCarolina?) and discover a marooned and uncrewed yacht. When he finally gets aboard, to salvage anything salvageable, he finds its from Spain, and there is evidence of desperate and panic stricken last days. Do you remember the movie ‘On the Beach’ (1959) about a submarine crew being the last people on earth after a nuclear holocaust?

  188. bubbleheadMarc July 19, 2011 at 8:31 am #

    Yes, “On the Beach” is pretty cool. I’ve devoted a great deal of thought to living on boats and have read many accounts of single-handed passages. Without adequate watch sections it would be a nightmare existence with a high probability of a nasty and brutish end. For one thing, it’s virtually impossible to stay dry. With these small GPS units navigation is greatly simplified: I would have three of them in watertight, shockproof photo-journalist cases. I’d also give myself a refresher on celestial navigation which incidentally is no longer required at Annapolis. But most of all I’d have to build my own ferro-cement sailboat with built in voids filled with styrofoam for reserve buoyancy. Don’t want to end up like that guy’s wife in “White Squall.” Recently pouring through an old National Geographic I saw one of his ads for that schooner upon which he offered training cruises.
    I think the yacht cruising thing is totally doable but I’d want a crew of at least three to split up the watches. I’d also want more than one satellite telephone. And of course an EPIRB. Then a professional liferaft which isn’t cheap. I’m suspicious of fiberglass hulls hence the obsession with ferro-cement which was initially developed in conversation with an eccentric sonar tech. we had who liked to charter sailboats to cruise to Lahaina, Maui from the Ala Moana yacht basin in Honolulu.
    I get depressed sometimes because I just don’t buy it that people are going to be able to cope with the civil unrest ashore. Out at sea people are more oriented towards rendering assistance to others. Just look at how poorly behaved people are on this blog the first couple days of each new cycle. Yesterday I became so disgusted I just forgot about it and got some sack time instead. I think the vocal dropouts are being too sensitive though. After all, this is a public forum so what the fuck?
    I think that people are limiting themselves too much historically. If we survive we’ll probably end up living in orbit while restoring the entire planet earth to the equivalent of a giant national park. Nationalism will wither away [if we make it]. As Ronnie Rayguns told the United Nations any alien threat will unit the entire planet. On this blog in particular we need to stop ranting about outmoded tribalistic horseshit from the dark ages. Of course we could be entering a new dark age. But don’t forget how infintely adaptable humanity is. Once the cards are on the table and all doubt has been removed the real turkeys will be shunted aside and people will get down to business and adapt to the emerging reality.

  189. progress,conserve July 19, 2011 at 8:38 am #

    I’ve never seen “On the Beach.” Maybe I’ll try to find it somewhere.
    It’s got some parallels to JHK’s fiction in several areas: – population reduction/sterility from nuclear radiation, no motor fuels, collapse of governments

  190. MarlinFive54 July 19, 2011 at 8:52 am #

    PoC, didn’t you mention you had experience with small craft on the open ocean?
    BBHMarc, in the event of political, economic or social meltdown, who would maintain those satellites necessary for your GPS units, or would they just operate on their own for awhile? When I was aboard those Navy ships, we had LORAN for navigation, with Omega backup. And, in a pinch, don’t forget ‘dead reckoning’! Some of the Officers, QM and Signalman CPOs would f—k around with celestial; I could never quite grasp it.

  191. soak July 19, 2011 at 9:04 am #

    Wouldn’t “small craft on the open ocean” be vulnerable to a proliferation of “volunteer coast guards” like the Somali pirates?
    Asoka, CFN landlubbing Southwest Chapter #2

  192. progress,conserve July 19, 2011 at 9:14 am #

    Nice post, Marc. I’ve also given a lot of thought to living on a boat and some sort of regional/world cruising as a permanent lifestyle. The biggest problem, IMO, wouldn’t be the nights and days at sea – although I’d want to be outside of shipping lanes as much as possible.
    But the big problem would be coming into shore, trying to get ashore, and then trying to resupply.
    You know how port and coastal areas in most of the 2nd and 3rd world tend to be pretty “sketchy,” right?
    And around the US, everything boat related seems to cost big, BIG bucks. Getting close to a source of good groceries involves established anchorages and marinas – where everybody who touches your boat charges by the foot.
    How about you build that ferrocement boat 45 feet wide and only 10 feet long? LOL
    “Out at sea people are more oriented towards rendering assistance to others. Just look at how poorly behaved people are on this blog the first couple days of each new cycle.”
    Yeah – I thought this week got off to a particularly bad start. Of course, a lot of the nastiness is due to FAB, and maybe one or two others. And in the real world, we’d just ostracize them from the group – or else pound them into the ground. RT, in particular, would have fun giving TootSie/Fab a genuine attitude adjustment – and in the real world, I would enjoy watching.
    But this is the cyber world –
    Where extremes are amplified – both good and bad.
    And, oh yeah, I’ve rented several boats down in the Florida Keys. And the safety/equipment briefing that came with every single one of those boats made mention of floating Cuban refuges.
    “If you see any – whatever you do – don’t call the Coast Guard. You’ll be out there with them all day, drifting around and waiting to give a statement.”

  193. soak July 19, 2011 at 9:17 am #

    Stop all our wars and close overseas bases.
    Cut military budget by 50%.
    Apply means-testing to social security and remove $106,000 cap on contributions.
    Increase taxes on “job creators” (Bush/Obama tax cuts haven’t created any jobs. Clinton tax increases created 22 million jobs.)
    Increase Social Security payments.
    Increase education and health spending.

  194. bubbleheadMarc July 19, 2011 at 9:25 am #

    I got the celestial navigation school twice, so I finally caught on. All you’re doing is memorizing a 21 step work-strip which uses a combination of the nautical almanac for that year and the sight reduction table for your 15 degrees of latitude. Your transferring an arc to a plotting chart to get three lines to intersect. Your position is in the middle of the hopefully tight triangle resulting therefrom. It’s not as complicated as it sounds because on a given run you’re shooting the same three stars over and over again. There are also a number of acronyms to memorize like CGA: computed greater away. Then you have to distinguish between the sidereal hour angle and the local hour angle.
    I’m not buying any of this nonsense that civilization will suffer a complete and total collapse. I don’t believe that anything short of global nuclear war would accomplish that. But yes, you need to do it yourself. The hardest part is getting an accurate “time tick” to enter the tables with, hence the traditional importance of a good chronometer stored at the ship’s center of gravity to minimize pitch and yaw.
    Any person of normal intelligence and a firm grasp of elementary arithmetic can learn celestial navigation in just one week with a competent instructor. I got the really good course in New London because I’d made Quartermaster 2nd class and was the acting leading petty officer on a Sturgeon class nuke boat. In any event, nobody does celestrial anymore on the big ships but it is essential as a backup on a yacht.
    Back in the eighties we had Loran C with a very primitive set in which we still had to mount the waves on pedestals, a total pain in the ass, to get the interpolation numbers to measure off of the chart’s scale and transfer onto the chart. Then we had Omega, same as an over the water airliner, then a pre-GPS satellite receiver hooked up to a SINS unit, again, same as on an over the water airliner. The duty navigation electronics technician would never help out; he’d be loafing on the mess-decks watching the fucking movie! Another reason why I put in a chit informing the command that I was no longer a volunteer for sub duty: if nobody else gives a shit then guess what? Neither do I! The first thing I learned on boomers was everybody works together or nothing works. When I see these movies where they depict submariners as all being totally gung-ho it makes me want to puke! These screenwriters have certainly never lived on a submarine with a bunch of unmotivated and anti-social misfits.

  195. bossier22 July 19, 2011 at 9:38 am #

    You don’t realize what you are saying when you say the elites would benefit from ww3. It would likely slip beyond their control, and they would be just as dead as a welfare queen or a soccer mom.

  196. progress,conserve July 19, 2011 at 9:43 am #

    “And I liked Auntie’s posts because it’s nice to see somebody take on some of the bozo posters here.” -helenhw-
    Helen – The main “bozo poster” that auntie seemed to be taking on was me – with the allusions to Georgia, etc.
    And I would have thought a good Canadian liberal, such as yourself, would have condemned Auntie for the expressed level of hate and promised violence against “whites.”
    That you applaud, rather than condemn this hatefulness, says more about YOU than it does about either Auntie S or myself.

  197. progress,conserve July 19, 2011 at 9:53 am #

    You remember Loran A? Most of the charter fishing and dive boats were using it in the late ’70’s. It involved staring into a hood over a cathode ray tube – right next to the wheel. The boat “skipper” would be watching the CRT, waiting for two lines to converge – at which point he would have to make an IMMEDIATE 90 degree turn onto a new line of position.
    It made for some interesting adventures – all these boats being steered by guys staring intently at their electronics – making these radical turns without, necessarily, looking around to see who else was staring at HIS electronics, and making his own radical turns.

  198. Buck Stud July 19, 2011 at 9:54 am #

    If you ever feel like typing up another post I would certainly enjoy reading your thoughts on the subject. But you’re probably going to have to completely rearrange everything – once this blog blacklists a post that’s it.

  199. dale July 19, 2011 at 10:07 am #

    Every knee must bend and every head must bow. After all, we don’t exist – right, Dale?
    Riiiiight El Duce, it’s the librarians fault you are such a loser…..or the blacks….or the jews….or the women….everyone’s fault but yours. Somebody has to be stabbing you in the back at all times. The Facist Lamentation.
    You do exist, in relative terms, of course…and as you well know, it’s a pretty pathetic little world you’ve created for yourself isn’t it?

  200. Buck Stud July 19, 2011 at 10:18 am #

    Generally speaking, I am not so sure men are “great lovers” in the early years of a marriage. The demands of daily life – there’s always another feather that needs to be put into the nest – in combination with the naturally volcanic lava of testosterone, seems to produce laconic, indifferent, and too easy to anger marital partners. And apparently, many women seem to have very long memories, which is a shame, because many men really seem to emotionally flower in their elderly years, becoming endowed with a loving sensitivity that was lacking in the rutting season of their lives. Pre- nuptials, divorce, societal dictum’s – all of these things are the turbulent white caps on the top-waters of conflict. I was referring to something more primal, “from the basement of time” to echo the movie. And I think from the earliest moments, the “weak link” was allowed to pass from our thoughts and sentiments easier than those six feet under would care to realize. And this ability to “let go” seems far more refined and developed in women than men. After all, who was left to carry on, when the son, husband and grandchild never returned from the battles abroad. And who was on the receiving end, when forced to have sex with the very men who killed those they held dearest. That’s right, the stronger and harder sex.

  201. progress,conserve July 19, 2011 at 10:18 am #

    Hey Alexandra,
    Always good to hear from you on CFN. You bring good stories and a unique voice to this place. And I can tell that you are authentically doing what you are writing about – which is more than we can say about some of the bozos and bozettes around this CF Nation.
    Regarding: “I travel a lot, and copious amounts of rubbish, fast-food, disposable anything with detritus lying around ever visible in a locale speaks ‘volumes’ about the type of people that would presumably call said place a home… ??”
    I agree, but I’m not sure exactly what to make of it. Is it social class? Transient populations? Education levels? Race? (for you, Vlad)
    But yeah, huge amounts of trash is one of those indicators that it’s time to “watch your step,” watch for thugs, watch for something that I’d rather not be living around – If I could help it.
    Insights, anyone?

  202. progress,conserve July 19, 2011 at 10:33 am #

    Insights about trash, you white trash jackass!

  203. rippedthunder July 19, 2011 at 10:43 am #

    Go get him Prog. Yesterday I had my fill.

  204. asia July 19, 2011 at 11:30 am #

    I found this at
    and thought of you:
    Apparently, according to Newsbusters, Dan Savage is a “gay sex advice columnist.” I’m not libertarian in my social views, and don’t view homosexuals as “evil” or “the devil” or whatever.
    But when gays play the victim card, it’s asswipes like Savage that make me have no sympathy for their whining.
    On the Bill Maher show, Dan Savage proclaimed he wishes all Republicans were f*cking dead. Imagine that. A far left progressive loon who preaches NOH8, tolerance, equality and all that stuff wants people who don’t agree with his political views dead.
    Im listening to Public Radio, news of ‘Graffiti ‘Art’ at the Geffen and LA’s role in the evolution of such art[serious cough]..
    Now KCRW is talking arrest of Muslim in Miami
    Of course the news is framed from the point of tolerance and PC nonsense and ‘dont violate mosque sanctity’.

  205. asia July 19, 2011 at 11:32 am #

    ‘You do exist’
    Does Buddhism decree that nothing exists?

  206. trippticket July 19, 2011 at 11:38 am #

    Yes, please! Always good to hear first-hand accounts from the world.

  207. Jwagner July 19, 2011 at 11:43 am #

    I agree!

  208. trippticket July 19, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    Why don’t you guys just ignore him?

  209. trippticket July 19, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    “Of course the news is framed from the point of tolerance and PC nonsense and ‘dont violate mosque sanctity’.”
    Do you have any idea how much hassle they’ve saved themselves by not busting in guns blazing as you would want them to? Whether you agree with it or not, it’s time to do things the inexpensive way. We no longer have the muscle power to be assholes all the time. Thank god.

  210. Vlad Krandz July 19, 2011 at 12:00 pm #

    So American hasn’t been betrayed? Is that what you think? Why do you believe such a stupid little mind that would say something so obviously untrue? There is something horribly wrong with you Dale – you are more than a garden variety asshole. Your Liberalism and Buddhism just add to and refine the essential taint.

  211. Vlad Krandz July 19, 2011 at 12:07 pm #

    Oh so it’s “whites” now – quotation marks and not capitalized. More hatred indicating that we don’t exist exept as a social construct. And a non existent people obviously have no rights – unlike
    vibrant Hispanics and Blacks.
    People like you are more dangerous than the Helens of the world because your hatred is secret. Covertly (even to yourselves?) you go along with their programs – perhaps offering token resistance at politicaly opertune moments.
    Martin Luther King was just like this – Black violence followed the dreamer like his own shadow.

  212. soak July 19, 2011 at 12:48 pm #

    The American Dream Movement is growing stronger by the day, and it’s not going away until we can find jobs, afford to go to college, retire with dignity, and secure a future for our children and our communities.

  213. trippticket July 19, 2011 at 12:52 pm #

    “Cheers to the real deal growers out there.”
    You’re a real deal grower, SG. I just happen to think that the most dangerous thing man does, for his endurance on Earth, is repeatedly cultivate the soil. That is, farm. Because of the power oil gave us, we needed fewer and fewer people to grow the food, and the rest of us could all go do something else. Now that that option is evaporating, I think a whole lot more people will be returning to growing food the right and respectful way. In gardens. (They can be big gardens though!) And that’s a very good thing in my opinion, because farming, and the culture it spawned, was destroying the planet.
    As an alternative, here’s a May ’11 post from Small Batch that shows a better way to grow food. If you’re interested.
    You’d be proud of me, I hung my first solar panel a few weeks ago! (Just a solar attic fan though.)

  214. Grouchy Old Girl July 19, 2011 at 12:52 pm #

    I’d like to introduce some thoughts and ask for responses from the posters around here. For many years I’ve been intrigued by the Quakers, or Friends as they’re sometimes called. One of the persecuted Christian groups who came from England to North America a few hundred years ago, they went off on their own when they rejected even the watered down rituals of the Puritans. Some were burned as witches for their nonconformity but they thrived and are still active all around the continent, with three branches offering different variations of their religion (according to information I found on the site “Quaker Canada”).
    Besides rejecting the rituals and materialism of mainline Christian churches, Quakers don’t believe in orignal sin, and believe simply that God is love and speaks directly to each one of us. They are committed to peace and social justice and the simple life, rejecting consumerism in favour of a sustainable, earth friendly way of life. They are sometimes called the Plain People because they don’t believe in decorating the body with trendy clothing, cosmetics or jewellery. They are non-racist and were instrumental in the work of the Underground Railroad as well as many other peace-related causes around the world.
    I first came across them as a kid, and later, as a weekend hippie sold on the virtues of back to nature and the simple life, thought their philosophy had a great deal to offer the world.
    Before I go on too long I will ask my question: are there any Friends on this site? Secondary to that I’m wondering what folks think generally about Quakers and their beliefs and how they fit with the thinking some of us share here. Do their teachings have anything useful for us here?

  215. soak July 19, 2011 at 1:00 pm #

    Murdochs Vow to Launch Full Investigation to Find Out Who is Running Company They Are in Charge Of
    Rupert: Will Use Seal Team Six if Necessary
    LONDON (The Borowitz Report) – Speaking before a British parliamentary inquiry today, media titans Rupert and James Murdoch vowed to launch “a complete and full” investigation to determine who is running the company they are in charge of.
    “Someone has been running News Corp. and as God is my witness I am going to find out who,” thundered the senior Mr. Murdoch. “I will use Seal Team Six if need be.”
    “Right now, we’re trying to figure out who is running the company by process of elimination,” he added. “So far, the only two people we’ve eliminated are my son James and myself.”
    Mr. Murdoch’s son James seemed equally in the dark about some basic matters, including his own place of birth as well as his first and last name.
    At one point, when a Member of Parliament asked him to identify his father sitting to his left, the younger Mr. Murdoch said, “I’ve never seen this elderly gentleman in my life.”
    There was a poignant moment in the proceedings when the senior Mr. Murdoch described the emotional toll the News Corp. scandal had taken on him: “People have been saying such terrible things about me, I’ve stopped listening in on their conversations.”
    At one point towards the end of the hearing, an unidentified man lunged towards Rupert Murdoch, causing Mr. Murdoch to exclaim, “Police! Catch that man! He might be the man who’s running News Corporation!”
    Today’s inquiry was historic because it marked the first time that British politicians have spoken to Rupert Murdoch while not onboard his yacht.

  216. trippticket July 19, 2011 at 1:01 pm #

    “The American Dream Movement is growing stronger by the day, and it’s not going away until we can find jobs, afford to go to college, retire with dignity, and secure a future for our children and our communities.”
    Just create a job for yourself, dude. The high-energy, college-for-everyone economy ain’t coming back no matter how many group prayer sessions are engaged in. The American Dream is over; now it’s time for the human dream.

  217. soak July 19, 2011 at 1:06 pm #

    Check out this Arizona dust storm.
    You can’t see for the dust in Arizona.
    It is so bad the police are hassling White people!

  218. Vlad Krandz July 19, 2011 at 1:06 pm #

    They used to shake in ecstasy – thus their name. Called shaktipat in mystical Hinduism. But that was a long time ago. Now they are very “this worldly and 100% behind political correctness. One of their schools, Sidwell Deeds, is a kind of Seminary or finishing school for etreme Political Correct Activism.
    Also as a group they are quite well to do despite their early simplicity. Before they became PC they became pioneers in shop keeping and retail. Plus they’ve been here a long time and they partook of America’s growth just like other old groups.
    They were never pioneers in the traditional sense. They hugged to the coast and depeneded on the Scots Irish to protect them against the Indians on the Pennsylvania frontier – whom they “loved” of course, more than the Scots Irish whom they viewed with distaste. You will like them very much I’m sure!!!!
    The early Friends were treated horribly by the Puritans just as you read. Thus they gravitated to New York and of course Pennsylvania. Later after the Puritans lost out to the Anglicans, they came back to New England.

  219. trippticket July 19, 2011 at 1:08 pm #

    If I believed in god I would be probably be a Quaker.

  220. trippticket July 19, 2011 at 1:11 pm #

    What, pray tell, is this obsession with political correctness? It just seems to be a veil to hide behind every time an offending thought pops up. So tiring. With 7 billion of us on Earth we have to hold our tongue at some point. When we’re back under a billion, PC will go away. Just another product or our environment, Mr. Marx. Stop invoking this shit every time the conversation turns against you! Come up with some substance; I know you can.

  221. Qshtik July 19, 2011 at 1:27 pm #

    Just thought I’d toss this hunk of bloody red meat into the CFN cage then stand back and see what happens.

  222. soak July 19, 2011 at 1:28 pm #

    Do their teachings have anything useful for us here?
    I attended Friends meetings for about seven years until I drifted away from the Christian/God centered theology and started exploring eastern paths. Now I am both an atheist and a theist (I know… that is contradictory) and can sit comfortably with the Quakers again. Their silence is one of the few ways one can enter a state of meditation through a western tradition. Many Friends meetings are quiet the whole hour (that’s what I prefer) but if messages are offered they don’t disturb meditation.
    Their teachings on harmony (pacifism) I embrace wholeheartedly. Their teachings on simplicity inspired my decision to downsize, even before retiring to build an earthen structure.
    Their teachings on community are also spot on, especially when facing TLE.
    The only thing that bothers me is the occasional Quaker who is too Christ-centered. But that is my problem, not theirs.

  223. Qshtik July 19, 2011 at 1:40 pm #

    If I believed in god I would be probably be a Quaker.
    …minus the use of fertilizers, insecticides and incessant destructive plowing of fields, of course.

  224. banfabian July 19, 2011 at 1:43 pm #

    Please ban Fabian

  225. rippedthunder July 19, 2011 at 1:45 pm #

    Shit Tripp, that would be like ignoring a porcupine as he slapped your ass with his tail! It is too much fun trying to pull out the quills with a set af linesmans pliers. He casts , I bite. I am somewhat of a bullhead that way. I just hope ol’ fabulicious enjoys the taste of mud!

  226. progress,conserve July 19, 2011 at 2:01 pm #

    “I just hope ol’ fabulicious enjoys the taste of mud!” -Ripped, to Tripp-
    I suspect that TootFab does enjoy the taste of mud.
    You’ve heard the old thing about wrestling with a pig in the mud, right? “You can’t win – and only the pig enjoys it.”
    Fabian yells “Fucktard,” or whatever when engaged.
    Others yell “Racist,” when engaged.
    The best method I have found in dealing with such posters is to never engage them directly, absent compelling reasons – but, rather, to talk about them with other posters in the third person.
    Thus, I propose that all comments about Lil’Fab go to the new screenname – “banfabian,” for the rest of the week, since Captain Spaulding has left us.
    And no, I’m not BanFabian in addition to being P,C – but it’s an interesting concept, I do believe.

  227. banfabian July 19, 2011 at 2:04 pm #

    Thanks, Prog
    I will be happy to accept any and all comments about Fabian/Tootsie but am still committed to getting him banned.

  228. Cash July 19, 2011 at 2:12 pm #

    Bring back caning. Beat their butts until they fall off or until they learn that they’re not the big dogs. The big dogs run the school and the little dogs get their tails whipped when they get out of line.
    Last night on TVO there was a panel discussion about Chinese Tiger Moms with mostly Chinese moms and dads plus one white guy who is a family therapist. The Chinese said that no no no you can’t over generalize, that not all Chinese parents are the same. And ok they’re not all the same. But there are broad cultural tendencies. And it’s like the white man said, there’s nothing wrong with setting high expectations.
    You can’t overgeneralize but there are universities up here that are getting to be known as serious schools where serious Asian kids go. And there are other universities where non-Asian slackers go to party and hook up and get laid.
    So three cheers for Amy Chua. She gave white parents a good kick in the ass.

  229. soak July 19, 2011 at 2:13 pm #

    And a really, really confused fucktard.
    It took me years to get to a state of confusion. Before I was looking for answers. Now I no longer search for answers. I just accept life is a mystery and I am agnostic, in addition to having atheist and theist movements.
    I consider confusion to be a positive achievement and I have learned to live moment to moment not knowing.
    Con-fused means to become one with. It is the goal of all mystics. The prefix “con” means with. Fuse means: to combine or blend by melting together; to unite or blend into a whole.
    To become confused was my goal and I can say I was successful. I now easily move from being a Quaker one day, a Hindu the next, a Buddhist the next. Sometimes I will go a whole week being a Sufi, then change to become a secular humanist or Unitarian or atheist.
    It just flows. It is all con-fused. All together. All one. It is a delicious state to experience.
    Thanks, Fabian, for the opportunity to reflect upon my spiritual experience!

  230. Belisarius July 19, 2011 at 2:26 pm #

    The “negotiations” around the debt ceiling are political theatre, of course. The owners have decided by now. Us peons don’t get to peruse the memo. Maybe CONgress also has not received the orders yet. One perquisite of the Powerz is placing bets that profit from their decisions before puppets announce them. Those bets make waves, and a wave pattern of bets on no debt ceiling increase would be quite turbulent. It might be hard to detect if Euroland implodes in the interim though, so I’m not betting this time.
    Jim said: “There’s no money. It was pretend money. From now on, none of you will get paid. Imagine a world where nobody gets paid.”
    The major unknown is when “now” begins. Unlikely we’ll be tipped in advance. Jim recently advised us to get out of the market,…..Is he now advising cashing any paper promise that someone will pay us later? And maybe further saying that those promises that can’t be cashed (pensions, SS, etc) might vaporise sooner rather than later? Sounds like that to me.

  231. progress,conserve July 19, 2011 at 2:29 pm #

    “Thanks, Prog
    I will be happy to accept any and all comments about Fabian/Tootsie but am still committed to getting him banned.”
    You’re welcome. We’ll see how this goes for the rest of the week – then if you could log in and make a comment fairly early on next Monday morning – – maybe a large enough portion of TootFab posts could be directed toward this banfab handle.
    The problem with banning Fab is that he will just reincarnate into another screenname in the blink of an eye. I’d rather try to ostracize him in hopes that he’ll stop with the insults.
    Q pointed out that “tootsie,” sans insults, expressed some RW/conservative viewpoints pretty well. And CFN could use some articulate and polite representatives of the Right – since this place tilts left, generally.
    It’s funny how one or two or three guys can give an entire, usually thoughtful, website like this a “funny look.”
    Fab does it with needless invective.
    Others do it with unfounded charges of racism and free floating hate against “Western Culture.”
    It’s easy to screw up a discussion thread and hard to fix it.
    At least you’re trying something new, banfab – let’s hope it works.

  232. banfabian July 19, 2011 at 2:29 pm #

    Child abuse! Everyone here believes you are no more than 14 yrs old and living in the basement.

  233. soak July 19, 2011 at 2:34 pm #

    Clinton said, “I think the Constitution is clear and I think this idea that the Congress gets to vote twice on whether to pay for [expenditures] it has appropriated is crazy.”
    Lifting the debt ceiling “is necessary to pay for appropriations already made,” he added, “so you can’t say, ‘Well, we won the last election and we didn’t vote for some of that stuff, so we’re going to throw the whole country’s credit into arrears.”
    Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution states:
    the validity of the US public debt shall not be questioned
    President Obama does not need Congressional approval to raise the debt ceiling.

  234. progress,conserve July 19, 2011 at 2:37 pm #

    “Child abuse! Everyone here believes you are no more than 14 yrs old and living in the basement.”
    No point in going looking for trouble with Fab, banfab – he’ll cause enough on his own soon enough.
    And I think he said something about being in his 40’s or 50’s, maybe even said he had a kid or a family, or something – which really surprised me.
    That may have been under Lil’Jimbo, or NotMommy, or one of the many other handles – maybe even TootSie, which Q says that he prefers.
    Anyone else have any personal data on ‘fabian,’
    also called “pissant,” by many posters – that they can remember. Report it to banfabian and maybe we can compile a CFN dossier on the little guy.

  235. Vlad Krandz July 19, 2011 at 2:48 pm #

    He knew.

  236. asia July 19, 2011 at 2:51 pm #

    Ok, But are you the one who had the advice of ‘Ignore the Trolls’?
    That was you sometime in the last few weeks.

  237. soak July 19, 2011 at 2:59 pm #

    Here is the bipartisan Gang of Six proposal:
    The whole deal leans to the right.

  238. soak July 19, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    Of course he knew.
    Murdoch committed criminal acts in England and USA.
    FCC does not grant licenses to criminals.
    Buh-Bye FoxNews.

  239. soak July 19, 2011 at 3:08 pm #

    How we gonna’ pay for all of the silly shit we have over promised on.
    Here is the bipartisan Gang of Six proposal:
    The whole deal leans to the right.

  240. rippedthunder July 19, 2011 at 3:10 pm #

    Give me an Eloi anyday. They look good enough to eat!

  241. soak July 19, 2011 at 3:20 pm #

    Violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) section 79, five years in prison for each charge.
    The act requires that payments to government officials need to be in the furtherance of ‘obtaining or retaining’ business. If money is being paid to officials, in this case the police, in order to get information to write sensational stories to sell newspapers, that would qualify as a violation. Big time. Bribery, illegal wiretapping of 9/11 victims… all are violations.

  242. soak July 19, 2011 at 3:25 pm #

    Really? And what would those crimes be, all knowing fucktard?
    Fabian, get a grip, man. Every post you tell me to shut up.
    Then you start asking me questions after you have told me to shut up.
    Then I answer your questions calmly, rationally, and logically, so you tell me to shut up again.
    I am enjoying this repartee with you, but I am beginning to wonder about your mental health.

  243. progress,conserve July 19, 2011 at 3:30 pm #

    I never said that, you can check, asia.
    I find myself unable to ignore trolls. I find that talking ABOUT the trolls to other posters – and trying to never respond to them directly – is the approach that works best for me.
    If you can ignore them – knock yourself out.
    BTW, asia, how would we define “troll” for CFN purposes.
    Some say Vlad trolls on race – I keep responding to help him see that sneering insults are his real problem.
    Fab trolls on verbal nastiness – occasionally he’ll have a good idea.
    Soak trolls on repetition and prideful inconsistency – and a dislike of most things Western.

  244. Qshtik July 19, 2011 at 3:34 pm #

    Fabian, get a grip, man. Every post you tell me to shut up.
    Then you start asking me questions after you have told me to shut up.
    Then I answer your questions calmly, rationally, and logically, so you tell me to shut up again.
    That is the sort of thing people DO who are large and contain multitudes.

  245. rippedthunder July 19, 2011 at 3:53 pm #

    Fabian , Blow your whistle harder, my dog don’t hear so well anymore! Than again, how about you go chase a ‘pussum sixty feet up a two score foot persimmon tree.

  246. rippedthunder July 19, 2011 at 3:56 pm #

    Hi Q, I believe the Fab is large, but I really doubt he contains multitudes. Maybe Mulyitudes of neck rolls. I

  247. rippedthunder July 19, 2011 at 4:07 pm #

    Sorry short post. The wrong key stroke I guess. I picture Fabulicious as a loser in Grammie’s basement pounding away at his circa 1990 keyboard as he dribbles pessi and smartfood popcorn down his triple chin. I believe he actually has more Chins than the San Francisco phone book. Apologies to my orieantal friends.

  248. Mrs. Soake July 19, 2011 at 4:08 pm #

    Soak trolls on repetition and prideful inconsistency – and a dislike of most things Western.

    You don’t know the half of it. Everyday or thereabouts I have to slap him upside the head good and hard. Doesn’t seem to help; he just keeps getting worse. I think he may have sustained some brain damage.
    Oh well…

  249. progress,conserve July 19, 2011 at 4:13 pm #

    Here are some data points for the TootFab dossier:
    “working out for ‘ya numbnuts?” Fab, to P,C
    “Hey dick-wad where…” Fab, to Soak
    “So you, queen douche,…” Fab to Soak
    “nut-sacks in the history of mankind.” Fab, to P,C
    So we see, BanFabian, that the person responsible for the Fabian persona produces a large percentage of insults involving sexual themes.
    And, apparently, he has a fascination with the status of Soak’s penis and P,C’s scrotum.
    Fabian is a very interesting, yet sexually twisted and conflicted being, wouldn’t you say?
    He will soon type yet another insult to demonstrate his own sad and internalized feelings of self-loathing.

  250. MarlinFive54 July 19, 2011 at 4:21 pm #

    (Ibendet, Qshtik, and a few others who follow the Dow, markets and Wall Street;
    The went up today 200, seems to be holding at 12000-12500 level.
    I think JHK was way to pessimistic when he predicted Dow at 4000 in December. (for the second year in a row) Hell, by Jan. it might exceed the record of 14,700 in Oct. 2007. That’s what some of the CNBC pundits are saying.

  251. Vlad Krandz July 19, 2011 at 4:23 pm #

    Give an Eloi a gun and he’s a match for any ten Morlocks armed with whip, cudgel, and claw. We must not allow ourselves to be disarmed as the Brits and Aussies so stupidly did.
    Ireland doesn’t ban guns – it just requires licenses which they somehow never issue.

  252. Newfie July 19, 2011 at 4:26 pm #

    Tainter – in his book on the subject – says collapse is a rapid decline in complexity. The system does not necessarily go completely to pieces. Some group with enough power could possibly trigger such a collapse by doing something dramatic. Like not raising the US borrowing limit. That would result in a sudden 50% drop in government spending and that would surely trigger a recession and maybe worse. A depression may not be a collapse but it isn’t business as usual either. Mmmmm…

  253. banfabian July 19, 2011 at 4:29 pm #

    Thank you Pro Con. I agree with your conclusions about Fabian’s self-loathing. I think Fabian is mentally ill. His fascination with sexually twisted insults are really sick and disconnected with reality. He will not be missed when he is banned.

  254. banfabian July 19, 2011 at 4:32 pm #

    Keep up the insults, fabian. It is getting you closer to having to choose another user name.

  255. banfabian July 19, 2011 at 4:35 pm #

    “Dadgummit?” Thanks for not using the Lord’s name in vain. That’s a great start on easing off the profanity.

  256. MarlinFive54 July 19, 2011 at 4:36 pm #

    I think you’re right, Fabian, most of those CNBC commentators just seem like shills for big business anyway. But the network itself makes it easy to follow whats happening on a daily basis on Wall Street. That Ford stock is probably a pretty good investment.

  257. Vlad Krandz July 19, 2011 at 4:39 pm #

    If we must have public education, it should be seen as a privledge not a right. And therefore the inmates can be sent packing. Anything else and the inmates rule the asylum. Minorities are far more troubled because of “subtle interaction between student and teacher” – in other words, rascism by Teacer. How stupid and vicious can you get?
    Have you ever been to the Pine Barrens? A Wilderness in which the towers of New York can be seen. It might prove a refuge to you when things go south. Buy a little log cabin therein.
    Do you live near Tom’s River? My old Jewish girlfriend brought me to meet her parents who lived there. They were very cool since they were upper middle class and must have been appalled by me. I had no clue of anything back then. It was that which must have saved the situation somewhat. The Father who was a Doctor was actually an Anti-Zionist. I was surprised that any Jew would be against Israel and asked him why. He said it was wrong what the Jews had done. A great guy. All this was before my awakening of course – I would never J date now but that doesn’t change my esteem for this man or the Jewish friends I still have.

  258. banfabian July 19, 2011 at 4:41 pm #

    Why do you have to keep choosing a new handle, fabian? I think it’s because you use this blog to only insult people. It’s immature and a sign of a very angry, troubled person. Most people want to stick to the topic- the blog itself, not insult other people. Be an adult, not a child. This is why I think you have a mental disorder: you only insult- you don’t add anything to this blog.

  259. banfabian July 19, 2011 at 4:44 pm #

    Now, fabian. You can help us by sticking to a topic you must know something about: investing. Stick to that and you’ll make a lot of posters happy and inform us at the same time. The investment pro approach could work for you here. Keep it up- seriously.

  260. banfabian July 19, 2011 at 4:48 pm #

    Piss up a rope is still better than most of the insults you’ve done. But let’s not dwell on the past. You’re making progress here- no profanity. Keep it coming.

  261. banfabian July 19, 2011 at 4:50 pm #

    More investment talk- less insulting.

  262. banfabian July 19, 2011 at 4:55 pm #

    Yes, you back slid. But it’s ok. Stick to the investment talk. We might learn something. You may not be wasting your time.

  263. banfabian July 19, 2011 at 5:03 pm #

    Yes, fabian. I want to learn something from someone who is mentally ill. I do believe that you are mentally ill and can probably enlighten us with some investment advice. Stick to talking about investing. It can work for you, and it will help keep the blog on topics that will help us.

  264. banfabian July 19, 2011 at 5:07 pm #

    yes, fabian, I am a simpleton when it comes to investing. I know you can help us with your knowledge of investing. We want more of that and less insults.

  265. banfabian July 19, 2011 at 5:09 pm #

    Investments, fabian. We want to know about investments.

  266. banfabian July 19, 2011 at 5:12 pm #

    Investments, fabian. Talk about the investments.

  267. soak July 19, 2011 at 5:28 pm #

    “Dadgummit?” Thanks for not using the Lord’s name in vain.
    Fabian said (under a different handle) that he is a Christian. Regarding his profanity and insults, perhaps he should read his Bible in Matthew 25:
    37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we call you a fucktard? 38 And when did we call you numbnuts? 39 And when did we call you a CFN moron and a CFN simpleton?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of the CFN posters, you did it to me.’

  268. progress,conserve July 19, 2011 at 5:29 pm #

    “Banishments, BANFABIAN. Talk about banishments.”
    Funny stuff, guys! And you’ve both got to be guys, to be having a whizzing contest over who most wants himself or the other one banned. ???
    BanFabian – don’t try to engage Fab, he’s too much a master of the “I’m rubber – you’re glue,” offense.
    Just hang back – when Fabian says something needlessly nasty or sexually revealing about himself, in response to another poster –
    then we’ll refer it to you for discussion, BanFabian.

  269. soak July 19, 2011 at 5:35 pm #

    37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we call you DICKLESS?
    40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of the CFN posters, you did it to me.’

  270. soak July 19, 2011 at 5:44 pm #

    37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we call you a ROPE-A-DOPE IDIOT?
    40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of the CFN posters, you did it to me.’

  271. soak July 19, 2011 at 5:52 pm #

    Well, asoka-herself, you would qualify as the “least”.
    Yes, I am nobody.
    And I am thrilled that God loves me.

  272. bubbleheadMarc July 19, 2011 at 6:02 pm #

    In reply to your earlier question about “pirates” two things need to be kept in mind vis a vis such maritime nuisances. First, post collapse the Somali and Indonesian pirates will not be much of a menace anymore if they cannot secure gasoline for their outboard engines. And second, American flag yachts which are not calling at foreign ports may arm themselves as heavily as they wish, so repelling boarders is not out of the question. In any event, vessels which are practicing proper watch standing procedures are not going to get taken by surprise. Any time another vessel is on a steady bearing that is a giant red flag for collision imminent calling for evasive action even if they have no evil intent towards you.

  273. Vlad Krandz July 19, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    Great post. Any man does well to realize that any woman he has sex with can claim rape at any time for any reason or none at all. And any man can be thrown out of his own home by his “wife” at any time for any reason or none at all. Young men would do well not to marry in Nations that oppress men in the West. Perhaps Latin America might be better. Foreign brides learn the ropes here very quickly and might even be more dangerous because more desperate. As Mr Kunstler said thru his character, “Women are not moral creatures”. They must be kept down by the force of both Law and Tradition.
    What you said might be part of the reason they are the way they are. In any case, their own self image and conversation have nothing to do with their motivations. Never mind what they say, watch what they do. It goes without saying that in their own minds everything they do is right and they are being victimized. Always.

  274. soak July 19, 2011 at 6:31 pm #

    BBM, pirates don’t need gasoline. The 16th century pirates didn’t have gasoline and they still caused havoc.
    Flag yachts may arm themselves, but they better be as well armed as the pirates. At minimum that would mean RPG-7 anti-armor, anti-vehicle, anti-ship, anti-personnel, anti-aircraft, building and bunker busters.
    Pirates have RPG-7 rocket launchers and their range is from 500 m to 1400 m. (varies by warhead) and they are capable of penetrating 230 mm of armor (or 1.5 m of brick wall).
    Ships like Alexandra’s won’t have a chance.

  275. soak July 19, 2011 at 6:36 pm #

    The 17th century pirates (1620 to 1720) didn’t have gasoline and they still caused havoc.

  276. bubbleheadMarc July 19, 2011 at 6:47 pm #

    Okay, in today’s climate if they lacked gasoline they would be impotent to board merchant vessels at will, because the freighters could easily evade them. In a post collapse world where no one has any money they would have no incentive for hijacking and then holding for ransom crews, because there would be no prospect of gain.
    Any yacht armed with semi-automatic assault rifles with night vision scopes and trained crew would be a formidable opponent making it fairly unlikely that the pirates could get close enough to start launching RPGs. There are other pyrotechnics which can be legally bought and then launched using shotguns and such ordnance would disorient and fluster the pirates. The pirates expect to get little resistance so any stiff resistance would quickly frustrate them much as wolves typically prey only on weaker animals such as those which are sick.
    Anyone taking to the sea to escape chaoes ashore would avoid such areas anyway. Under such circumstances we would have home-grown pirates anyway. If civilization collapses it’s not going to be safe anywhere.

  277. soak July 19, 2011 at 6:54 pm #

    By semi-automatic assault rifles are you referring to arms like the HK416, AR15, AK47, and M4? (these are usually piston action (not direct impingement), with Picatinny rails and drop free magazine releases).
    I need to know what you have in mind to know whether or not they would be any kind of defense.

  278. bubbleheadMarc July 19, 2011 at 7:02 pm #

    “I have noticed a certain disdain among women for men in decline, be it physical and/or mental health issues, monetary glitches, emotional strain or even death itself.”
    That was your post to which I replied. I said something to the effect that it is fairly common for people to become angry at someone for dying. And as one of my former girlfriends pointed out [not the biter who flushed her jail orange jumpsuit down the toilet] the spouse of a sick person always feels “cheated” when their existence is diminished as well. And Susan Faludi, who wrote “Stiffed”, about the decline of men, wrote an entire chapter about these wives of unemployed aerospace workers who mostly dumped their husbands as soon as they got pink-slipped.
    Let’s face it: people are shallow. And perhaps the most common form of socially accepted prostitution is traditional legal marriage. Clearly the women expect to be taken care of in exchange for their sexual favors. When such care is no longer forthcoming they feel cheated so their patience may wear thin. As one of the wits on the freighter Noble Star put it: “think shallow, it works, but better yet, actually be shallow.”

  279. run_dmc July 19, 2011 at 7:18 pm #

    “Imagine a world where nobody gets paid.
    . . ” I can. It’s called Africa; well specifically rural Zambia/Malawi. I lived there for 5 years. It can be done and it’s not so bad. Welcome Americans!

  280. ozone July 19, 2011 at 7:21 pm #

    “Q pointed out that “tootsie,” sans insults, expressed some RW/conservative viewpoints pretty well. And CFN could use some articulate and polite representatives of the Right – since this place tilts left, generally.” PoC
    Goddamnit, Prog, give it the fuck up!
    You consistently refuse to believe these irrelevant fuckers don’t want to “present a viewpoint”; THEY WANT YOU TO GO AWAY AND NEVER RETURN… THAT’S THEIR FUCKING JOB!!
    You’ve got plenty of reasonable RW views here, you just don’t understand where CENTER is anymore. Jesus, you’ve been more indoctrinated than you’re aware.
    (Even the “soaker” manifestations have no persuasive purpose; it’s just to get you sick of wading through their useless chest-puffing shit… and eventually… wait for it…
    Now, please, stop engaging with assholes and distractionary fools; you’re not that hard to scroll by either, y’know. I won’t feel I’m missing much if you continue insisting these jerkwads “have something thoughtful to say”. They most emphatically, DON’T.

  281. run_dmc July 19, 2011 at 7:32 pm #

    BTW, JHK: You’ve never, ever said exactly what about Obama told you at all that he was decent. All you’ve ever pointed to is his lovely family and cute kids. Ever think that maybe he’s ineffectual because he’s not actually decent and doesn’t care much about anything except getting paid for himself and his immediate brood. Besides, don’t a lot of really scummy people have cute kids? Murdoch’s actually are pretty cute too. The family Madoff took a lovely holiday picture, and on and on.

  282. Qshtik July 19, 2011 at 7:40 pm #

    Have you ever been to the Pine Barrens?
    Do you live near Tom’s River?
    Yes and yes. Tom’s River is a 42 mile car ride for me. My in-laws lived there for 20-25 years up till my M-I-L moved in with us in mid 2005 and we sold her house in Jan ’06.

  283. soak July 19, 2011 at 7:40 pm #

    “Even the “soaker” manifestations have no persuasive purpose.”
    This week, just to mention a few items, I have presented a 3.5 Trillion dollar solution to the debt crisis (right-leaning document from the Gang of Six), an explanation of piracy with regard to flag yachts (in response to the question of safety on the seas post-collapse), the legal basis for prosecution of Murdoch (owner of FoxNews), the legal basis for the impeachment of Obama for war crimes (in response to the waste of monies that cannot be used to address THE LONG EMERGENCY), the relevance of Quakerism to THE LONG EMERGENCY, an explanation of Sharia law as it applies to bank theft and bribery (in response to the corporate theft we are experiencing), a book recommendation (The politics of nonviolent action by Gene Sharp) for organizing collective action in response to THE LONG EMERGENCY, etc.
    You, Ozone, rarely have anything informative or constructive to say. But you do have insults: “Now, please, stop engaging with assholes and distractionary fools…”
    If you think my contributions have no persuasive purpose, I now hereby respectfully request that you stop reading and commenting on them. Scroll past and ignore me… please.

  284. lbendet July 19, 2011 at 7:51 pm #

    I think JHK was way to pessimistic when he predicted Dow at 4000 in December. (for the second year in a row) Hell, by Jan. it might exceed the record of 14,700 in Oct. 2007. That’s what some of the CNBC pundits are saying.
    Well, Marlin, clearly the concentration of this administration was to get the stock market going again. People who have 401k and IRAs needed to see that along with the bankers, etc.
    So we complain that wall st and not main st has done well.
    As I said earlier this week, though the whole health of the global economy is very tenuous and there is little room for insult.
    Ultimately if we can’t get better employment and the market for goods and services shrink, if we don’t raise the debt ceiling, if the financial warfare continues against the middle class, I don’t see the stock market as safe.
    It’s all good until it isn’t. Who will warn you when the elite decide to bail-out?

  285. digbycookies July 19, 2011 at 7:55 pm #

    Did I miss something or did Jim fail to bag on the South this time round? He did get some shots in on Americans in general, though. What would one of Jim’s weekly comments be without them?

  286. lbendet July 19, 2011 at 7:59 pm #

    I listened to Michael Hudson earlier today and highly recommend this “Guns and Butter” interview with Bonnie Falkner. “Finance Is the New Mode of Warfare”.
    Wage, I think you’ll really appreciate this interview.
    I feel a bit vindicated, as I mentioned on Monday that with this global finance system one can conquer sovereign states without ever firing a gun.
    well this is very beautifully described:

  287. ozone July 19, 2011 at 8:02 pm #

    “Ultimately if we can’t get better employment and the market for goods and services shrink, if we don’t raise the debt ceiling, if the financial warfare continues against the middle class, I don’t see the stock market as safe.
    It’s all good until it isn’t. Who will warn you when the elite decide to bail-out?” -LB
    Thanks, LB,
    There’s some actual food for thought.
    Sorry if I have no “facts” and “stats” to add. ;o)

  288. digbycookies July 19, 2011 at 8:06 pm #

    Right on, girlfriend!

  289. ozone July 19, 2011 at 8:10 pm #

    By the bye, soaker, if you happen to see this, you’ll [I’m sure] be delighted to know I haven’t read a word of yours in a couple weeks.
    (I had seen that you had “responded” to a posting of mine, but that’s what I do; look at the screen names in the heading and move on by. Didn’t read it; hope it was important to you to “get off your chest”. Have fun!)

  290. digbycookies July 19, 2011 at 8:12 pm #

    Sounds like your M.I.L. got out just before the CRASH! Good on her for that!

  291. soak July 19, 2011 at 8:19 pm #

    I listened to this interview when Metuselah recommended it.
    Hudson maintains that the whole “debate” over the extension of the debt ceiling is a charade. Hudson says it is a foregone conclusion that the debt ceiling will be increased.
    I like it when people make concrete, verifiable, short-term forecasts. We will know in less than two weeks whether Hudson was right and TPTB already have the decision to raise the debt ceiling in the bag.
    If it goes to Aug. 3 (basically a default, which Hudson said would not happen), I calling Hudson on it.

  292. ozone July 19, 2011 at 8:20 pm #

    Regardless of the “price” of stocks, I believe you’re headed in the right direction by “investing” in things of solid-steel worth! (Don’t forget abundant “accessories”; they aren’t worth much without.) ;o)
    An aside:
    About 20 pages into Burroughs. Yep, it’s like being tossed headlong into somebody’s nightmare, against your will! Fine by me; done that lots…
    There IS a strangled logic there, but damned if I can figure how he manages/herds it. (?)

  293. soak July 19, 2011 at 8:21 pm #

    I don’t want you reading or responding to any of my posts. Scroll on by. Thank you.

  294. anti soak July 19, 2011 at 8:22 pm #

    And for ‘All Things Soaka’
    Im outta here for awhile.

  295. anti soak July 19, 2011 at 8:24 pm #

    Hey S/he has been banned 40 ? times.
    Can you get Soak banned?

  296. ozone July 19, 2011 at 8:24 pm #

    Did a tiny doggie yap in the distance of the fog-enshrouded wilderness?
    Ah well, never mind, it wasn’t of enough import to shoot at…

  297. Qshtik July 19, 2011 at 8:24 pm #

    Sounds like your M.I.L. got out just before the CRASH! Good on her for that!
    Yeah, the timing was terrific. Case-Schiller says that nation-wide house prices peaked in mid-2006. Not sure about Tom’s River per se.

  298. anti soak July 19, 2011 at 8:27 pm #


  299. soak July 19, 2011 at 8:44 pm #

    Ozone, you are banned from reading my posts. You are prohibited from hearing tiny doggie yaps. Stop providing so much evidence that you don’t even keep your word.
    For you, I am “scrollover country.” Stop responding

  300. ozone July 19, 2011 at 8:44 pm #

    “Don’t scroll me, bro.
    “Don’t tase me, bro!” – andrew meyer” -PoC
    Doh! Pretty funny (in a very awkward way, of course)! (This is the way cops paint targets on each others’ backs… so early Monday morning.)
    I certainly didn’t mean my post to you to be any “threat” (I mean, who cares anyhoo, right?).
    What I’m meaning is: if I see that you’ve responded to a [paid or unpaid] weasel in caring-citizen garb, I’ll go on by THAT one. Less mud-ridden?
    (Your encouragement of ‘some’ ‘bodies’ just griped my grits. ;o)

  301. ozone July 19, 2011 at 8:46 pm #

    I see you’ve “responded” yet again! Hope it wasn’t too urgent…. probably not…

  302. ozone July 19, 2011 at 8:52 pm #

    Try the read-and-comprehend thing soak.
    One last time: I see your name, it’s scroll time; don’t bother “responding” to anything I might post, it’s a waste of finger-flailing.
    Okay; done widdat; hope you’ve gained an understanding of my “methodology” now. OUT to you [and the totality of your incarnations; you’re not hard to spot].

  303. metuselah July 19, 2011 at 8:57 pm #

    I listened to Michael Hudson earlier today and highly recommend this “Guns and Butter” interview with Bonnie Falkner. “Finance Is the New Mode of Warfare”.
    See: July 18, 2011 10:23 PM 🙂
    That said, remember Michael Hudson is an unabashed commie, and he works for the same Vatican/banking elites that financed Karl Marx (Stalin, Mao, and Adolf Hitler). Yes, the rabbit holes are many, and they run deep.

  304. soak July 19, 2011 at 8:57 pm #

    See, here is where I think Hudson is wrong. TPTB do not have a debt ceiling increase in the bag. The debate is not a charade.
    The deadline for default was today, because it takes two weeks for a plan to be scored and made into law, after an agreement has been reached. And no agreement has been reached as of July 19.

    July 19, 2011 P.M. Reid said he got a call from Congressional Budget Office Director Doug Elmendorf, who said the plan would take at least two weeks to score for cost and savings, putting the completion of that work just beyond the Aug. 2 deadline. Reid called the plan “wonderful” and said he does not want to diminish enthusiasm over it, but said alternatives still must be considered.

    “Alternatives still must be considered” !!! And we are out of time.
    I’m calling Hudson on his bullshit right now. There will be no debt ceiling deal before Aug. 2. Hudson is wrong.

  305. soak July 19, 2011 at 9:00 pm #

    Ozone, you are doing it again. You are prohibited from reading or responding to my posts. Scroll past and ignore them. Don’t waste your time falsely explaining how you are not reading them and just make responses, you know, out of the blue. You are busted, Ozone.

  306. soak July 19, 2011 at 9:12 pm #

    WASHINGTON — A quarrel between the House and Senate over union organizing is threatening to prevent congressional action necessary to keep the Federal Aviation Administration operating, raising the possibility of a shutdown of the agency later this week.
    The FAA’s operating authority expires on Friday. The agency has operated under a series of 20 short-term extensions since Sept. 30, 2007 because lawmakers have been unable to agree on a long-term funding bill.
    We would save a hell of a lot of hydrocarbon based jet fuel by shutting down all the airports.
    That is what the Tea Party/Republican extremists say they want: “shut ‘er down!” they scream.
    But I don’t think they have really considered the economic consequences. Debt ceiling increases were routine under Bush. “Deficits don’t matter” said Cheney.
    What Republicans are doing now is purely political, aimed at preventing a second Obama presidency by deliberately creating chaos.

  307. metuselah July 19, 2011 at 9:15 pm #

    Hudson is wrong.
    So is Hussein. According to your logic.
    Only that everyone knows it’s all a charade including the stock, options, and bond market participants. Everyone can see the BS. Everyone, except our most esteemed Asoka.

  308. Qshtik July 19, 2011 at 9:16 pm #

    The deadline for default was today, because it takes two weeks for a plan to be scored and made into law,
    Do I contradict myself, well then…
    I believe you wrote on Monday 7/11 that Wed 7/13 was the drop-dead date because it would take 20 days to implement.
    When you quote new or different information you should mention that it differs from what you said previously. Otherwise you begin to look and feel like a slimy eel. Hey, I just made a rhyme.

  309. ozone July 19, 2011 at 9:20 pm #

    And now:
    More from the realists notebook (despite howlings from Gummint-Boosters and Chamber of Commerce types).
    Frackers and commercial water-extractors are my sworn and distinct enemies. I have a grim and slim hope for my grand-children’s survival, and it ain’t goin’ along to get along.
    Overuse and exploitation means debasement and extinction. (Du-hoo-d!… is that like… total, like death, dude?)

  310. soak July 19, 2011 at 9:27 pm #

    Nice try, Q.
    I said 20 days last week. A week has passed. That leaves 13 days. (20 minus 7 = 13)
    Today the CBO said at least two weeks.
    “Congressional Budget Office Director Doug Elmendorf, who said the plan would take at least two weeks to score for cost and savings”
    13 days. 14 days. New information. New data. New conclusions. Nothing slimy. Sorry.

  311. ozone July 19, 2011 at 9:34 pm #

    Lest we forget; the fracking process is exempt from all environmental regs. (Heckuvajob, Darth Cheney!)
    If you should profit from drillers on your patch (sumpthin’-fer-nuthin’ babies!), collect your loot quick and git the fuck out, ’cause the poisoning will commence in very short order! Ain’t we got fun (and profit)?

  312. soak July 19, 2011 at 9:41 pm #

    metuselah said: “everyone knows it is a charade”
    So what are you saying? Be specific like Hudson. Take a stand.
    Will there be a deal before Aug. 2? What do you you mean by “charade”? Is the fix in and they are just strutting about for publicity?
    Commit yourself, metuselah. Don’t be so skeered.

  313. metuselah July 19, 2011 at 9:43 pm #

    Interesting admission by the Fed:

  314. metuselah July 19, 2011 at 9:46 pm #

    So what are you saying?
    What is it about the word ‘charade’ that youz (in all your multitudes) don’t understand?

  315. soak July 19, 2011 at 9:51 pm #

    Will there or won’t there be a deal? What is the charade?
    You know, the Vatican is probably preventing you from giving a definite answer. Default, yes, or default, no.
    Then again you could be working for the CIA as a disinformation officer.

  316. ozone July 19, 2011 at 9:58 pm #

    Lawd-ha’mussy, Cash!
    What’s up with Questerre, there? (TITS up would be my guess.) Them dang lib’rul Franco-o-phones put the kai-bosh on frackin’ up their Quebecois “homeland”. Seems they want to see how those further west in the Frack-lands make out after ingesting those “safe” by-products for a few years, before getting their palms (and butts) greased.

  317. metuselah July 19, 2011 at 10:03 pm #

    Default? Yes! Already happened. Already happening. Will continue to happen. Will it all come to head in two weeks? NO!
    Now, stop being such a numbskull.
    As for CIA disinformation officer, you can smell them a mile away. Especially when they refer to the Persian Gulf as that Hebrew Lake and the US war in Iraq Afghanistan Pakistan as a Zionist/neocon/Wolfowitz plot to eliminate Israel’s enemies.

  318. metuselah July 19, 2011 at 10:04 pm #

    CIA disinformation officers

  319. progress,conserve July 19, 2011 at 10:35 pm #

    Hey Met,
    Regarding that link to Fed policy that you posted:
    Yeah – interest rates on deposits have been stupidly low for over a decade in the US, now.
    Which give us the runaway stock market X 2 and the runaway, then crashed, real estate market.
    And when you consider that interest is taxed as ordinary income, whereas stock and real estate gains are taxed at capital gains rates – or in the case of owner occupied real estate – not taxed at all!!
    And we wonder why we have bubbles – and we wonder why Ma and Pa saving for a rainy day – have been so incredibly HOSED by government policy.
    Anyway – this was the disclaimer on the link that you provided for us. I thought this was a pretty cool set of directions for posters, generally:
    “Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data, ability to repeat discredited memes, and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Also, be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor even implied. Any irrelevancies you can mention will also be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.” -metuselah’s link-

  320. Qshtik July 19, 2011 at 10:36 pm #

    I got lotsa laughs as I gathered the info below. Note: I do NOT call for Tootsie to be banned. I think he makes many valid points. The foul insults are just his shtick and carry no sting due to over-use.
    At least 9 out of 10 insults are of the foul variety but some use normal everyday language. My recent favorite was:
    Soak said: “Now I no longer search for answers”
    Fabien replied: Just as you no longer search for a job.
    Anyway, here for your enjoyment is the entire panoply of FOUL insults from Tootsie in the past 1.5 days (he is quite prolific):
    7/18/11 @
    11:46A imbecile
    11:52A Fucking MORON
    12:31P libtard crowd; pathetic morons; morons
    12:42P gay-fuking-men? (his spelling, not mine); (ref to someone having taken) “stoopid pills”
    12:45P idiot
    12:47P wealthy libtards
    12:55P the MORONS; how fucking stoopid
    12:59P Hey simple fuck; shove it up your fat ass
    01:01P dog-dick
    ———– half hour lunch break ———–
    01:33P douche-bag poster
    01:36P the shitbag percentile
    ———– attend afternoon Mass ———–
    03:07P Would you prefer “asshole”
    03:10P Simple fuck; fucktard
    03:16P (Moron)
    03:21P revisionist idiot; fucking fairy-tale
    03:23P Blow. Me.
    04:52P fucking concept
    04:56P Hey fucktard
    05:37P That douchebag
    —— swing-shift at Mickey D’s ——
    7/19/11 @
    10:27A You are a moron
    01:18P inept fool
    01:21P this fool
    01:54P confused fucktard
    02:27P blowing fabien instead
    03:06P Hey genius; You are a moron
    03:08P All knowing fucktard
    03:12P Hey, asshole; you are full of shit
    03:22P One of the dumbest nut sacks in history
    03:26P queen douche; Asosa herself (his spelling)
    03:29P You are a simpleton
    03:35P Hey dick-wad; (MORON)
    03:37P numbnuts
    04:28P no less a nut-sack
    04:34P Hey half wit; are a doofus
    04:41P Piss up a rope
    04:50P dullards; calling a fucktard a fucktard; an idiot
    04:51P Fuck-off
    05:01P bigger idiot; a FUCKTARD
    05:02P What a simpleton
    05:10P other imbeciles
    05:33P Hey dickless
    05:42P (referring to Soak) “I’m an idiot”
    —— swing-shift at Mickey D’s ——

  321. progress,conserve July 19, 2011 at 10:40 pm #

    And yes, regarding the debt ceiling:
    The fix is in.
    Congressmen are, most definitely, posturing.
    The debt ceiling will be raised before default.
    I don’t know why anybody can have a different opinion – and the media sux, for playing this thing up like it’s important OR in doubt.
    Guess it’s better than the Kardashians at least, or that deranged mother and her poor dead child, from the trial that ended last week.

  322. trippticket July 19, 2011 at 10:49 pm #

    Any Floridians in the list tonight? I heard that the Sun Rail was approved and will begin construction soon, bringing 13,000 new jobs to central Florida. Can anyone verify this first-hand? (Not you, Asokut-n-paste.) I also heard that Standard and Poor’s has upgraded Florida’s credit from negative to stable. What the hell did you guys cut from your payroll to get there?
    …Hello? Anyone in Tallahassee? Shit. They’re at the beach, waiting for the grid to go down so all the snowbirds will get lost.

  323. ozone July 19, 2011 at 10:49 pm #

    Don’t see that handle na’more. Must be “lights out” at 2200 sharp in the camo-clad “counter-intelligence” barracks. “Rest your tired widdle fingees; tomorrow’s another long day of typing shit-wit sludge to subversive bloggies. ‘Murka needs you to protect her from them ‘Murkans out there, Troop! Nighty-night, and don’t let them commies bite…” -Capt. ‘Murka
    (Ps. “Counter-intelligence”; how very, very apropos; a wond’rous juxtaposition when translated into modern Orwellian-speak. (sigh) The radiance is nearly too resplendently golden to be looked upon with mortal seeing-organs, I tells ya.)

  324. Qshtik July 19, 2011 at 10:53 pm #

    Nice try, Q.
    Last week on Monday you were fear-mongering that a deal had to be struck by Wed (2 days hence). Then today you pushed the drop dead date out one week to tomorrow. Don’t try to jive ME Soak!

  325. metuselah July 19, 2011 at 10:56 pm #

    The Euro market is coming apart. This will temporarily strengthen the US dollar, and cause a deflationary effect on the gold, silver, and the US stock markets in general.

  326. progress,conserve July 19, 2011 at 10:58 pm #

    “I certainly didn’t mean my post to you to be any “threat” (I mean, who cares anyhoo, right?).
    What I’m meaning is: if I see that you’ve responded to a [paid or unpaid] weasel in caring-citizen garb, I’ll go on by THAT one. Less mud-ridden?
    (Your encouragement of ‘some’ ‘bodies’ just griped my grits. ;o)” -ozone-
    OK, O3 – your points are noted. And your grits are among the last grits that I would intentionally gripe – on CFN.
    I do think we’re short here, when it comes to legitimate right wing posters. There’s Marlin, and Q, and Bossier, and – – – –
    Because then we get into racists – Vlad, TusconSpur, DesertDawg, NewWorld, Soak, Auntie Soak and – – – –
    As I told Wage last week, Marlin stands in for me for a large percentage of the guys that surround me – in my family, and work, and life – down here in the south.
    And I recognize TootFab, for all his faults, in the same sort of way as I do Marlin – as a neighbor, friend, or relative – but who is just so goddam freakin’ frustrated with it all; that his trolley has slipped off the track, somewhat, into insult and vitriol.
    Furthermore than that, O3 – I’m working on a way for this blog to be self-regulating, and for the Jackasses to recognize the errors of their ways – and thus to straighten up without banning – because banning, in the case of tootfab, leads only to more banning.
    To that end, I think the 3rd person response strategy – to BanFabian, or whomever – has more potential than anything else I’ve seen come down the pike lately.
    Big day tomorrow – gotta go crash.
    I value your opinion, ozone.
    Let me know when you think I’m off base.
    You know I’ll return the favor to you. 😉

  327. soak July 19, 2011 at 11:00 pm #

    Q, I am still fear mongering, and the CBO today verified my timeline, namely that there is not enough time to finish before Aug. 2.
    The fix is not in. We are in deep shit.

  328. metuselah July 19, 2011 at 11:03 pm #

    The fix is ALWAYS in. The only question is who is getting fixed by the fix.

  329. CaptSpaulding July 19, 2011 at 11:05 pm #

    Hi Progress,Conserve. Just dropped in to see what’s going on. I notice you responding to Asoka, but since I pretty much ignore him, I go by what I read in your replies to him. Just so you know, Asoka’s thing is to deliberately misinterpret things and eventually provoke an angry or unkind response. Once that happens, he gets the chance to manifest his Buddha nature (or Christlike qualities), and forgive you for your unkind words. He is very predictable in his responses, and thus of no interest to me, since I can pretty much figure what he’s gonna say. Not someone I’d sit down & have a beer with. He’s too much of a goody two shoes to be interesting. At least to me. Too predictable. Regards: The Captain.

  330. trippticket July 19, 2011 at 11:07 pm #

    “05:37P That douchebag
    —— swing-shift at Mickey D’s ——
    7/19/11 @
    10:27A You are a moron”
    Ooo, ooo, do one for me! That was funny. Oh wait, I’m not all that funny. Never mind. It would just be something like…
    Passive solar
    Hey Asia, shut your racist vegan neocon piehole!
    Farmer’s Market
    (Don’t I have big balls?)
    Paradigm shift
    Keyhole event
    How many frickin’ soak puppets are there??
    Sheet mulch
    Jackie’s so hot, they won’t notice if I click over to Reality Kings real quick…
    Yeah, yeah, we get it, Tripp.

  331. soak July 19, 2011 at 11:09 pm #

    The USA default will mean hyperinflation and a weaker dollar. Just the opposite of what you are saying. You think the main stage is Europe, when the main stage is the USA.
    The dollar index, which tracks the USA unit’s performance against a basket of six currencies, traded weaker at 75.210 compared with 75.343 in late North American trading on Monday.
    Let’s check back in a week and see whether the dollar strengthens or weakens, assuming you are willing to accept the dollar index as a valid measure. If you think the dollar index is controlled by the Vatican or the CIA, then there is no hope. It is all a charade.

  332. ozone July 19, 2011 at 11:10 pm #

    “…Hello? Anyone in Tallahassee? Shit. They’re at the beach, waiting for the grid to go down so all the snowbirds will get lost.” -Tripp
    Ahaha! Then what happens? Lootings of the open-air bars; news at ten?
    “Got’ willin’ an’ th’ crick don’ rise, ‘twould be a most debauched and delicious outcome!” -The Tallahassee Tumbler, Bard of the Boisterous Beached Bovinities

  333. soak July 19, 2011 at 11:12 pm #

    Nice to hear from you Captain. I read all your posts with interest.

  334. progress,conserve July 19, 2011 at 11:16 pm #

    Ok, Tripp – that’s pretty funny!!
    And I’ve been off my pace this week.
    “reduce immigration” p,c
    “control population” p,c
    “jackie is hot” tripp
    “so are sjmom and truthteller” p,c
    “200,000,000 in the US was PLENTY” p,c
    “when are we doing the permaculture tour?” p,c
    OK – I’m probably out for 36 hours.
    “y’all try not to hurt each other” p,c

  335. soak July 19, 2011 at 11:25 pm #

    OK – I’m probably out for 36 hours.
    I will miss your posts, PorC. Y’all come back now, y’hear?

  336. Qshtik July 19, 2011 at 11:26 pm #

    Beginning at 1:30P today the DOW tacked on an additional 80 pts to the 115 pt gain it had already made from the 9:30AM get-go. This coincided with the “gang of 6” revelations that the “logjam” had been broken. Simultaneously gold dropped from ~$1605 to ~$1590.
    Now … as to whether a deal is truly “in the bag” imagine if TPTB secretly agreed to come out, say, July 28th – after buying a shitload of triple-levered inverse (ie short) ETFs in Aunt Tilly’s name – and saying on camera (to a CNBC reporter with the White House in the background) “I regret to inform you that certain recalcitrant republicans have thrown a monkey wrench into the deal we were all so recently assuming was solid.”
    Talk about a market going off a cliff!!
    Then Monday morning, after selling their short ETFs at great profit and going 3X long, Obama comes on TV and announces (with bi-partisan support smiling behind him) that a deal has been struck that they are all happy with.
    Will it happen that way? Probably not but if I was a big cheese that’s how I’d arrange it.

  337. soak July 19, 2011 at 11:34 pm #

    So you are in the “there will be no default on Aug. 2” camp?
    You think there will be a deal before Aug. 2 and there will be no days of default after Aug. 2?
    I’m just trying to get someone to be specific. Metuselah only says things like “charade” and “the fix is in” and “the default is happening now” but then he says the dollar will STRENGTHEN, which makes no sense.
    I’m beginning to think nobody knows anything, but now that we are at the point of facing a real economic abyss, all of a sudden faith is being expressed that nothing dire is going to happen, that we will solve this before Aug. 2.

  338. metuselah July 19, 2011 at 11:36 pm #

    The USA default will mean hyperinflation and a weaker dollar. Just the opposite of what you are saying.
    No, default (dollar debasement/inflation) has been happening for a long long time. And it will continue to happen for a little while longer. Longer than the next two weeks, that’s for sure.
    As for the US dollar’s temporary strength against the Euro, that is happening right now. The operative word is TEMPORARY. After the Euro is done, the US dollar will be next. But for now, as the Euro gets killed, the US dollar will temporarily strengthen. Gold/silver/stocks will correct by 30 to 40 percent. When the Euro is done, the US dollar will be next. It is then that we will see the precious metals continue their general ascend higher in terms of US dollars.

  339. Ixnei July 19, 2011 at 11:42 pm #

    You all want predictions – that’s understandable.
    I made this prediction back in Oct, 2010, and I still stand behind it.
    This year *WILL* be the hottest year on record, second only to 2010 and 2005. 2012 will be the solar max, and thus 2012-2017 will be completely intolerable (and even hotter than this year).
    Only a FSCKING gutless wanker would call this *climate change* rather than *GLOBAL WARMING* – but hey, some people are dumb as stumps. Relgiligiligiligili?!…
    And your Dow will be 11.5k very soon – that’s *2* predictions. Dates and times? Ahaha, Sinistra!!! Catch you next week…

  340. soak July 19, 2011 at 11:48 pm #

    Do you accept the Dollar Index as a reliable measure?
    I’m not interested in a “he said she said” back and forth. I want us to agree on an objective measure.
    The Dollar Index measures the dollar’s strength against a basket of six currencies. Is that a valid measure for you?
    Phrases like “long long time” and “little while longer” are so vague as to be meaningless. Can you be more specific?
    Over what specific time period are you saying the dollar will weaken or strengthen? (please pick one)
    What do you mean by “When the Euro is done” … by what objective measure will we know the Euro is “done”? Please be more specific.

  341. Qshtik July 20, 2011 at 12:01 am #

    And your Dow will be 11.5k very soon
    If between now and Aug 2nd the gang of 6 breaking of the log jam today has a monkey wrench tossed into it the Dow will drop to 11.5K in ~3 mins.
    Note however: the moment a solid deal is made increasing the debt limit (say by Aug 1st) and avoiding the feared calamity, the DOW will begin to sell off since the good news was already baked-in to market prices. It’s called “sell on the good news.”

  342. metuselah July 20, 2011 at 12:02 am #

    Phrases like “long long time” and “little while longer” are so vague as to be meaningless. Can you be more specific?
    The debasement of the US dollar has been happening in force for at least 100 years. My guess. is that in the next 2 years we will have a major US currency crisis, and that in 10 to 20 years the current US dollars will no longer be accepted as currency.
    The problem with the Dollar Index is that ALL paper currencies are being debased concurrently. Some at a faster rate than others. What you need to look at, specifically, is the Euro/US dollar couplet.

  343. metuselah July 20, 2011 at 12:09 am #

    A weekly close below the 1.38 level, is sell signal on the Euro.

  344. metuselah July 20, 2011 at 12:11 am #

    ^a sell signal

  345. Patrizia July 20, 2011 at 12:46 am #

    My question is: if there is NO money to buy the precious metals, will their value still be high?
    In ANY market the price is usually the balance offer/ demand, the bigger the offer compared to the demand the less the value.
    When ALL precious metals will be in the hands of the few, who are they going to sell them to?

  346. metuselah July 20, 2011 at 1:02 am #

    My question is: if there is NO money to buy the precious metals, will their value still be high?
    The government mafia creates money out of nothing. But YOU never buy money with money. YOU buy money with your labor to the government mafia.
    Will precious metals have a high value? Temporally, yes. In reality, they are worth next to nothing. It’s the same gov mafia scam as with paper money. That’s what money is, a government mafia scam. Always was. Always will be.

  347. asia July 20, 2011 at 1:36 am #

    Money [paper money and gold coins] are POWER..
    They [coins] could be bartered for [you name it]
    Food, House, …when things get really bad
    maybe boxes of caned food will be worth ounces of gold…or a Wheat grinder [hand operated] will be worth lotsa $ [oops, gold coins].

  348. asia July 20, 2011 at 1:38 am #

    Book Chain closes and there go 10,000 jobs.

  349. Eleuthero July 20, 2011 at 7:20 am #

    Gold’s worth?? It’s a purely psychological
    question because its PHYSICAL uses are few.
    Regardless of how a rabid market perceives
    it, rational analysis shows that is cannot
    be eaten, no crops can be grown on it, it
    costs money to assay (to make sure you’re
    not being ripped off) and store. In short,
    it’s a righteous pain in the ass.
    Gold is just the latest entry in the 29 year
    bubble-a-thon of rotating bubbles that IS at
    Wall and Broad. Personally, I don’t care if
    the market bids it up to $3000 … you won’t
    find me entering this sweepstakes because like
    all the other bubbles, this bubble will end too
    like all mass psychoses. “Suddenly” people will
    perceive its approximate “true” value and it
    will revert to a rational mean and then, of
    course, overshoot the other way.
    The financial sector is past the point of needing
    some sort of metaphorical Prolixin or Thorazine.
    In the last two months we’ve seen the market lose
    900 points then gain 700 points. Who wins?? The
    brokers. These are the people who are slowly
    siphoning off a skim (the transaction fees for
    trading) like mafia dons used to do when they
    ran Las Vegas.
    Of course, there ARE likely to be successful
    investments and unsuccessful investments in the
    months and years to come. What are they? That’s
    the problem … ALL of the bubbles have been
    irrational so what in hell is the point of
    “investing” AT ALL!!!
    But the real parody are the lucky guessers who
    brag about their astounding acumen. It’s
    crazier than a roulette player claiming that
    his psychic power made the ball go into number
    28. Yet these bloviators are all over CNBC,
    Fox Biz, and Bloomberg and, of course, all over
    the Internet which is full of “geniuses” [sic].

  350. MarlinFive54 July 20, 2011 at 7:32 am #

    Yeah its too bad about Borders, Asia. That was a good place. Great selection, and if they didn’t have what you were looking for, they would cheerfully order it for you. I bought many, many books there, not enough evidently to keep them in business. I think from here on in I’ll stick with the used bookstore on Rte.44 in Canton, CT.
    Is ‘economic recovery’ (whatever that means, perhaps going back to how things were before Oct. 2007) even possible with Crude hovering at $100 per barrel? Those 60 million barrels released from the SPR didn’t do much. A coworker was much impressed with the 60 million barrel number until I informed him that 60 million barrels is burned thru by world markets in about 20 hours.
    Picked up a copy of ‘Monk Eastman, The Gangster Who Became a War Hero’, by very gifted British Author Neil Hanson. If any in CFN think their situation is not too good, read Hansons description of conditions in the Lower East Side of NYC 1890-1910, the most crowded and poverty stricken place on earth at the time. Also great description of AEF combat on the Western Front in 1918. Another book about the same period ‘Wisconsin Death Trip’ combined with this biography, causes me to reconsider past assumptions about life in the US in the late 19th and early 20th century.
    PoC, I don’t consider myself ‘Right Wing”. Vlad is ‘Right Wing’. I’m in the middle.

  351. MarlinFive54 July 20, 2011 at 7:37 am #

    Ibendet, the lower east side, what’s it like now?

  352. lbendet July 20, 2011 at 7:58 am #

    Just about any real estate in Manhattan is gentrified now. There are good restaurants and nice little stores with expensive goodies. Yes there are still old buildings, but new buildings have been built in the last several boom years.
    At this point NYC seems like there’s still economic life. The thing I’ve been most concerned about is how many new bank branches have been taking the place of stores who went out of business in the last 5 years.
    Also hate to see chain stores in a city that’s vibrant with little individualized businesses–that’s what keeps this place alive.

  353. Ixnei July 20, 2011 at 8:02 am #

    “Nothing but trolls and sock puppets. Nighty night to all the real people out there doing their best…”
    I’m so sorry, on 2 counts. I said I wouldn’t *talk* you all ’til next week. Other count – those multiple aliases, that are all clearly fabian/tsa-tsa (jgalt6/dale/2+ others).
    I ended up taking a mini-vacation to the coast, for the first time in 20 years (last time, my sister was on the back of my motorcycle).
    I was absolutely *DISGUSTED*. I passed by 6 logging semi-trucks, with full clear-cut loads, in the first 20 miles/20 minutes (~2PM Monday). I sampled a couple creeks on the way – no gold panned (got some lead/tin tho). Made it to Seaside – 70 miles, and refilled the gasohol guzzler ($5.50). The winds at the Ocean were 15-20MPH constant – it was nice to see, for the first time in about 9 years.
    On the way back, at about mile 10, there was a monstrous clearcut – and a sign, stating that in 2007 there was a *storm*. Yeah, a Caterpillar *CLEARCUT* storm.
    WTF, everywhere you looked for 5 miles, the clearcut was obvious (nothing but stumps). It was pretty much that same way to the coast every *now and then*, but I just *ignored* it. However, after I saw that sign, I was sick to my stomach, and drove the final 50 miles home just wishing and praying to be locked in a prison cell, so I could forget all the clearcutting I had seen, along route 26.
    It was about 4-5 times worse than I remembered, from the mid 90′. I’m assuming the national forests are now nothing but fodder for Weyerhaeuser/etc.
    I *fscking* fessed up, that I was a rude @$$hole. Do you really think any of those other “serious threats” will do the same?!…
    This is a game that will be played out – are you ready or *NOT*? Here it *COMES*. At least here, where I live, it will be 70’F and rainy in the summers – most of you sorry folk are gunna be fodder during 3-4 months of 100’F+ weather for the next 7-8 years (MY *PREDICTION* – 2011 HOTTEST YEAR ON RECORD; NEXT 5-6 YEARS EVEN WORSE).
    Best bet – underground bunkers. I believe I’ve suggested that be-4, as *well*.

  354. bubbleheadMarc July 20, 2011 at 8:05 am #

    I answered your weapons question but the server ate my reply. My simplified response is that adequate firepower is available without special permits so that a competent crew could indeed successfully repel an attempted boarding. The most readily available weapons are the AR-15 and the AK-47. The pirate’s tactics assume that their victims are unarmed so they would definitely be deterred by a professional crew which was armed. The British have now decided to arm their merchant crews. Most merchant crews are currently unarmed.

  355. trippticket July 20, 2011 at 8:08 am #

    There are plenty of solid investments out there, just not the get rich quick kind. Of course, when fiat currency disintegrates, as it ALWAYS does, those get rich quick vehicles will all seem pretty silly. (They already do to me.)
    Let’s see, productive land is the most obvious. Fruit and nut trees, bushes, canes. Quality tools. Imported organic fertility and minerals. Low-maintenance, ecologically-appropriate livestock – generally I would start with rabbits (which are absolutely delicious), then goats, then native poultry, then maybe cattle (although they are pretty land intensive). A good cart horse, a good cart, sturdy bicycles. Water catchment systems. Modest PV systems for crucial functions like refrigeration, and/or home-scale wind turbines. Useful books. An education in real world skills like carpentry, brewing/vinting/distilling, smithing, pottery, baking, cobbling, animal training, gardening, food preservation, sewing, soap making, etc, etc.
    And nothing beats the investment of time and experience dealing with the world outside of cheap abundant energy, figuring out how to accomplish any given task without oil. I tend to view gold and silver as a secondary defense, after all the other stuff is taken care of. Just my .02

  356. lbendet July 20, 2011 at 8:13 am #

    I see you as a conventional conservative, not one of these neos. My only issue with you is that sometimes you’re open to the idea that this is a new phase and that the sovereign-nation oriented political parties are no more and other times you fall back on your conventional wisdom. That said, I still think you are of good spirit.
    Nobody has said a word about Elizabeth Warren not getting the post she developed. That’s ‘cuz Wall street said no to Obama and he obeyed his masters.
    Can’t wait to see the cushy position he gets when he leaves office.
    If the value of all currencies are down, than there are two issues to note:
    One is that the value of labor itself is being downgraded and flattened world-wide.
    Two, what will replace the basket (case) of currencies when they crash?
    If we all agree that the elites are taking every bit of value of money and resources world-wide, then we need to figure out what the game plan is.
    I heard something recently suggesting that we will all be paying taxes to a central bank in Europe eventually, all using a world-wide currency after the utter failure of the fiat currency. Give’ em a disaster and they will allow you to do anything.
    (We’ll global corporate communism.)
    Disaster capitalism (Milton Friedman) is quite the model isn’t it?

  357. messianicdruid July 20, 2011 at 8:23 am #

    It is labor as a basis of wealth, but labor without organization {gumption} isn’t sufficient or adequate to operate a system. The world system operates on guile, and uses labor only as a small input.
    Peers need a system – outside the system – to survive/prosper, that produces “wealth” to trade or give. Parasites must be beneficial to expect acceptance.
    “So some kind of convulsion is in the cards and it will be the unfortunate duty of some dutiful officer to step in and set an agenda…” Township Trustees to the rescue!

  358. Ixnei July 20, 2011 at 8:39 am #

    Anyone heard that G3 song, “Down, down down”?
    I think it’s worth poasting here:
    “two feet on the ground”

  359. Patrizia July 20, 2011 at 8:51 am #

    “I heard something recently suggesting that we will all be paying taxes to a central bank in Europe…”
    My second question is: why do we need to pay taxes?
    Why isn´t ALL private and you pay when and if you use it?
    Why do we have to pay politicians?
    Why do we have to pay somebody to rule?
    If civilization means being slave, it is much better not to be civilized.

  360. messianicdruid July 20, 2011 at 9:20 am #

    Is this trolling?
    How about October 27 2007?
    “I will promise you this. That if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am President. It is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home and we will bring an end to this war! You can take that to the bank!” Well, I guess this Nobel Peace Prize winner took us all for a ride down a one way road to the bank. Is there an honest politician anywhere out there? Maybe Paul.

  361. welles July 20, 2011 at 9:23 am #

    Let’s see, productive land is the most obvious. Fruit and nut trees, bushes, canes.
    trippy, looking into planting 4,000 walnut trees down here in Brazil, huge market, and basically money grows on trees then lol.
    peace peaceniks

  362. bubbleheadMarc July 20, 2011 at 9:27 am #

    The .50 caliber single shot sniper rifle is also legal and is good for disabling engines.

  363. MarlinFive54 July 20, 2011 at 9:32 am #

    BBHMarc. that .50 cal. you refer to, made by Barrett and now a few others, cost upwards of $5,000. And there is a long backorder.

  364. Ixnei July 20, 2011 at 9:35 am #

    Burger King left you with arable clearcut land, not yet concreted by 3-5 years of cow trampling? I am *AMAZED*.
    LOL, definitely start planting something, before it’s all leeched from the concrete soil. Hah! How is that Amazon Basin treating you, anyways, tax evader? Good thang you ain’t collecting SS/MC/MA (or *are* you?).
    Just pick up those mangos that have fallen onto the soil – hah. You’ve convinced *ME*. I bet there’s no problems, whatsoever, there, with silt runoff clogging the rivers…
    The Amazon is already 50% clearcut – not too many years *REMAIN*…

  365. MarlinFive54 July 20, 2011 at 10:13 am #

    Looks like Obama will be taking his summer vacation at that swanky resort out on the Vineyard once again, $5,000 per day if he was being charged. I thought we were facing ‘Armageddon’? That’s what he said last week. When President Bush took his vacation in 2006, clearing brush and mountain biking at his ranch in Crawford, TX, he was hounded by Cindy Sheehan, Code Pink and an army of media and anti war cranks camped outside his gate, harassing him. Will these same folk be descending on Martha’s Vineyard. After all, the wars are still going, with an additional war added. Or will it be fawning, ass-kissing media, admiring Obama from a distance so as not to disturb the vacation of our dear leader.

  366. metuselah July 20, 2011 at 10:15 am #

    If civilization means being slave, it is much better not to be civilized.
    Don’t confuse civilization with Roman/Babylonian civilization. What you are witness to is the machinations of the 4th (4th? I’ve lost count) Reich. (Germany/Vatican/USA).
    The ancient Hebrews had it right (mostly). They understood this evil better than most. They instinctively rejected and rebelled against it. If you read Frank Chodorov’s essays on the subject (, you’ll get a better understanding of this ancient history and ancient dynamic.

  367. bossier22 July 20, 2011 at 10:17 am #

    Why soak. An interest in firearms. I would never have thought it. impressive.

  368. dale July 20, 2011 at 10:23 am #

    ‘You do exist’
    Does Buddhism decree that nothing exists?
    No, Buddhism, much like quantum physics, suggests that we all exist relatively, in relation to the rest of the world, but have no ‘inherent’ existence, in and of ourselves. This would also be true for everything else in the world.
    It’s a difficult concept to grasp, just like the true implications of a quantum world.

  369. dale July 20, 2011 at 10:46 am #

    I would never J date now but that doesn’t change my esteem for this man or the Jewish friends I still have.
    Riiiight…..I’m sure “dates”, are just queueing up outside the door of your single wide trailer right now. Oh…sorry, that was just Fido asking for dinner.
    As for your jewish “friends”?……please, all the jews I know want friends who are howling for their blood, right?
    Now that you are “awake”, go back to burning your arms with matches to prove your “genetic superiority”. Seig Dipshit.

  370. Qshtik July 20, 2011 at 10:52 am #

    My second question is: why do we need to pay taxes?
    Why isn´t ALL private and you pay when and if you use it?
    Why do we have to pay politicians?
    Why do we have to pay somebody to rule?
    Pat, how odd that YOU should ask these questions. Judging by things you’ve written I never thought of you as the ultimate conservative (as we would define that term here in America). These are questions Ayn Rand might ask.
    Realistically though, there are legitimate functions of government … but far far fewer than imagined by folks like Wage, Soak and many other socialists that inhabit this blog.
    BTW, you began with “My second question is:” but never gave us your first question.

  371. dale July 20, 2011 at 10:56 am #

    To become confused was my goal and I can say I was successful. I now easily move from being a Quaker one day, a Hindu the next, a Buddhist the next. Sometimes I will go a whole week being a Sufi, then change to become a secular humanist or Unitarian or atheist.
    Interesting….and not entirely without merit I suppose. But how do the rest of us distinguish your definition of “confused” from “attention deficit disorder”.

  372. soak July 20, 2011 at 11:22 am #

    Anthropogenic climate change (what Fabian calls MAN MADE) is settled science.
    Climate skepticism is common among older individuals from lower socio-economic backgrounds who are politically conservative and hold traditional values.
    Climate skepticism is less common among younger individuals from higher socio-economic backgrounds who hold self-transcendence and environmental values.

  373. trippticket July 20, 2011 at 11:23 am #

    “Why isn´t ALL private and you pay when and if you use it?”
    This is basically my problem with Obamacare. My socialist grandfather explained it to me as requiring everyone to participate in order to be affordable, and that if we got everyone on board it would be the least expensive option we’ve ever had. Well, putting aside my normal qualms with long food chains and metabolic loss in larger systems, I have fundamental problems with Western “sick care” itself, the way it is practiced in this country. I think our medicine is good for trauma, but that’s just about it. Any system that depends on people being sick to make money is wrong-headed in my opinion, and I want no part of it. You can’t force me to pay for something I don’t believe in, which is why I transitioned to making so little money that I no longer have to pay for resource wars or line the pockets of the banksters. When the feds give the TBTF banks these obscene checks that enable them to keep robbing the people of the remainder of their hard-earned cash, I don’t have to worry about any of that money being mine.
    In a similar vein, by using less and less electricity at home I can sleep at night knowing that I am less and less responsible for mountaintop removal for coal to power the grid. Some people choose to scream and protest and stamp their feet about environmental abuses; I just choose to stop enabling them. Which is of course far more effective.
    But I think you’re onto something when you question the utility of “civilization.”

  374. soak July 20, 2011 at 11:26 am #

    I was just trying to establish that on the high seas any kind of commonly used assault rifle with a range of 300 to 500 meters is not going to be as useful as a pea shooter when faced with RPGs with ranges of 500 to 1,400 meters.
    My intent was to show the uselessness of firearms (assault rifles) for high seas protection from pirates in a post-collapse scenario.

  375. soak July 20, 2011 at 11:27 am #

    is going to be as useful as a pea shooter

  376. Cash July 20, 2011 at 11:37 am #

    I dunno Ozone. Maybe it’s as you say that in Quebec they’re playing a wait and see game.
    Or maybe this is a question of spreading the loot. The last I heard was that the locals close to the prospective Questerre operations were up in arms about it. But money makes a great many problems “go away” so to speak.
    Maybe the problem is that Questerre is western based and doesn’t have enough local political connections. But in the end there’s a treasure chest of royalties and taxes for the provincial govt.
    Don’t be surprised that after the Quebec govt makes all the appropriate coo-ing noises about the environment and goes through the motions of a review that development goes ahead whether it’s Questerre or someone else.
    In any case after listening to “what Quebec wants” for the past 45 years or so and watching all their political contortions the goings on in la belle province have become mind bendingly tedious. I can hardly say the word “Quebec” without losing conciousness from boredom.

  377. BeantownBill July 20, 2011 at 11:48 am #

    Very nice post, Tripp. I copied it into a word document and put it into my personal folder. Lots to think about. Thanks a lot for the info.

  378. bossier22 July 20, 2011 at 11:51 am #

    I thought “piss up a rope” was hilarious.

  379. soak July 20, 2011 at 11:56 am #

    Very good information, Tripp.
    There are very few posts that I bother to save for future reference. This one of yours is one of them. I really appreciate your positive contributions.

  380. Cash July 20, 2011 at 11:57 am #

    Why do we have to pay politicians?
    Why do we have to pay somebody to rule?
    The simplest answer is that no matter what system you have, whether it’s a “democracy” or a dictatorship, the rulers surround themselves with men with guns. And the men with guns will make you pay.

  381. welles July 20, 2011 at 12:08 pm #

    …wonder how many times you been down here, you seem to know more than the people that live here. must be the US school system that taught you so much.
    …and keep on paying what you ‘owe’ in taxes to fund your stinkin’ wars and dying, anti-human(e) systems, go on, since you’re so concerned about ‘taxes’ lol, what a joke, you’re a very useful idjit.
    don’t come crying when they come for more more more, cuz brother it ain’t never nuff.
    just fyi, i haven’t evaded taxes at all, i always declare my income, just don’t have any money to pay what’s levied.
    now what law is broken there?
    peace peaceniks

  382. soak July 20, 2011 at 12:11 pm #

    The men with guns cannot make you pay if you do not want to pay.

  383. ozone July 20, 2011 at 12:35 pm #

    “Don’t be surprised that after the Quebec govt makes all the appropriate coo-ing noises about the environment and goes through the motions of a review that development goes ahead whether it’s Questerre or someone else.” -Cash
    No worries; I’ll not be surprised if it goes down exactly like that! (Those would be my innate suspicions.) As Prog had said before (referring to timelines), it’s a race between economic collapse (no capital for drilling, and the looming negative EROEI), and a panic to get “value” out of the land (which the owner will attempt to bug out with).
    “In any case after listening to “what Quebec wants” for the past 45 years or so and watching all their political contortions the goings on in la belle province have become mind bendingly tedious. I can hardly say the word “Quebec” without losing conciousness from boredom.” -Cash
    Should Quebec be re-dubbed as, “Nouveau France”, and have done with the pretending? Not so certain they’d like taking orders from ‘cross the pond though. (We’ve seen how these things tend to shake out. ;o)

  384. welles July 20, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    The men with guns cannot make you pay if you do not want to pay.

    Amen brother, no taxes while human needs go unmet.
    peace peaceniks

  385. MarlinFive54 July 20, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

    Piracy seems to be a problem only off E Africa and down around Malaysia, Soak, so you are probably right about the pointlessness of keeping guns aboard private vessels. It probably would be best just to stay away from those dangerous areas. There was that tragic circumstance in Africa last year when those 4 Christian Missionaries were murdered by pirates in a highjacking gone bad. That was an anomaly. Like BBHMarc stated earlier, sailors at sea are much more helpful in times of duress than landlubbers on land.
    Also, Soak, I know you are an Obama fan and take umbrage when I criticize him. (as I did earlier today) Here’s the thing. To be honest I think he is a decent guy and I don’t really blame any of the current economic problems, nor the wars he inherited, on him. But I liked President Bush, too, & he was hammered like I’ve nver seen before, about everything under the sun, things he had no control over like tidal waves and hurricanes, just for political expediency. I bitterly resented it at the time and wonder why President Obama is not now getting the same treatment.

  386. trippticket July 20, 2011 at 12:42 pm #

    “trippy, looking into planting 4,000 walnut trees down here in Brazil, huge market, and basically money grows on trees then lol.”
    In the future I think the only real money available will grow on trees. Or graze on grass. Or similar. You get the idea. I definitely don’t think it will be metal, much less paper. Surprised walnuts would be a good Brazilian crop, though! I think of them as cool continental trees. We’re trying to reestablish native black walnuts around here. Rich and oily, high protein, high fat (something we’ll appreciate a lot more in the future), great wood stain, not to mention the wood quality itself. As we expand uphill (think coastal plain uphill) from the garden I’ll expand our black walnut population considerably.
    You know walnuts excrete an allelopathic chemical from their roots that kills just about everything around them, right? It’s called juglone. Do you know how to neutralize it?

  387. ozone July 20, 2011 at 12:52 pm #

    “The simplest answer is that no matter what system you have, whether it’s a “democracy” or a dictatorship, the rulers surround themselves with men with guns. And the men with guns will make you pay.” -Cash
    Ouch. Sad, but true distillation.
    You might be interested in this presentation, and the idea of the “gift economy” it contains. (Of course, one has to know everyone within the system for it to “work” properly, I would imagine. Sounds like it’s dependent on a massive downsizing. Ouch, again.)

  388. trippticket July 20, 2011 at 12:54 pm #

    “The simplest answer is that no matter what system you have, whether it’s a “democracy” or a dictatorship, the rulers surround themselves with men with guns. And the men with guns will make you pay.”
    I think that’s why she is questioning the utility of “civilization” in general. Both democracy and dictatorship would fall under that heading, but tribal life doesn’t produce enough energy to fuel an entitled class of kleptocrats. Nor guns, nor an ecology-destroying level of consumption. Which in my opinion makes civilization the worst of things, no matter how comfortable it is.
    Did you know that a certain level of unemployment is considered desirable in western economic philosophy, in order to optimize profits? It’s worth paying a small percentage of people not to work in order to maximize the money made by the elite. I had no idea until this morning – chapter 4 titled Buddhist Economics, in “Small Is Beautiful,” by EF Schumacher.

  389. soak July 20, 2011 at 12:56 pm #

    Thanks, Marlin. It’s all cool.
    Under Bush five times the debt ceiling was raised without a ruckus. Cheney said deficits didn’t matter. They never asked Bush to show his birth certificate, they never made fun of Bush’s middle name, and they never accused Bush of being Muslim. Bush was able to be elected in spite of AWOL, DUI, and cocaine use. Meh. It’s history now.

  390. trippticket July 20, 2011 at 1:02 pm #

    Bean, thanks for the good words. I really do appreciate that.
    Soak, you too:)

  391. Cash July 20, 2011 at 1:06 pm #

    Once, during one of our interminable constitutional discussions with Quebec, one of their separatist leaders suggested that they would go into a military alliance with France. Made me laugh. Can you picture it? I can’t. I think that, faced with the prospect of French paratroopers on the banks of the St Lawrence plus the sight of a supine English Canada unable to muster the will to defend its own interests, the 82nd Airborne would get there first. I think that Quebecers and the French would know this. English Canadians, on the other hand, being the only people on this planet embarrassed by their own existence, would never have thought of it.
    The fact is that Quebecers have hardly heard a peep from France for the past 250 years. And the French, being world class snobs, look down their noses at everybody and especially at what they see as the hayseed cousins across the ocean with their rough ways and their unintelligible accent and dialect (joual).
    The French, of course, are not so picky about who they associate with when they hear the tramp tramp tramp of German boots. Especially les maudits blokes across the channel and those loud, insufferable cheeseburger eating Americains.

  392. ozone July 20, 2011 at 1:15 pm #

    “We’re trying to reestablish native black walnuts around here. Rich and oily, high protein, high fat (something we’ll appreciate a lot more in the future), great wood stain, not to mention the wood quality itself. As we expand uphill (think coastal plain uphill) from the garden I’ll expand our black walnut population considerably.” -Tripp
    Interesting. Good furniture wood, etc., for our grandkiddos (or beyond)?
    They do grow like gangbusters here in the NE; nearly the same rate as black cherry, which is quite the thing to witness, year over year. Sounds like they need their own grove, or “personal space”. ;o) Wonder what kind of fungi enjoy their company? Scary ones?
    Oh, what do you mean by “coastal plain [uphill]”? Is it actually a slightly higher elevation?

  393. trippticket July 20, 2011 at 1:15 pm #

    Dems say “Meh” to Pubs, Pubs say “Meh” to Dems. You’re both right! Obama sucks. W sucked. Clinton sucked (or at least got sucked;), Bush Sr. sucked, Reagan sucked, Boehner sucks, Pelosi sucks, Gingrich sucks, Biden sucks. Both parties suck out loud. So when are you going to stop participating in their bullshit??
    Yes, it basically requires the end of western civilization if we stop participating, but if western civilization is bringing down the house and our ability to persist on Earth (which it is), how is that not only the best option, but the only option? Painful as it may be. Get on with it.

  394. messianicdruid July 20, 2011 at 1:15 pm #

    “They never asked Bush to show his birth certificate, they never made fun of Bush’s middle name, and they never accused Bush of being Muslim.”
    MSM never asked Obama any of these questions either. But “they” did make fun of his ears. Some of those political cartoonists use the same hackneyed ears in their hit pieces, making unfair comparisons between “O” & “W”. Whic brings up another similarity: one letter names!

  395. Vlad Krandz July 20, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    Purely psychological? But does that mean unreal? Every civilization through out all of recorded history has valued it deeply – even when not used as money it has always been worth alot of money. Gold, the tears of the Sun, is one thing that can be counted on.
    Of course it can’t be eaten. Buy land, start a garden and bury the gold therein until things start up again.
    The Shaw Brothers of Hong Kong fled mainland China in a hurry – but buried their gold first. They had nothing but the clothes on their back and worked in a hot kitchen. One foggy night they rowed back and dug up the gold. No more kitchen. They opened a martial arts movie studio and became fabulously wealthy.

  396. bossier22 July 20, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    you are right, but they are better than nothing. The old M-14 or some other .308 or larger caliber would work better at those kind of ranges. under fire and with poor training a pirate would have a much harder time making an accurate shot even with a rpg. If he closes on the target, the smaller assault rifles would be fine.

  397. ozone July 20, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    Be veeeeery careful! ;o)

  398. bowling July 20, 2011 at 1:26 pm #

    Isn’t it ironic?
    That the only good news you can get in the united states of Amerika comes from Thom Hartman on RUSSIAN TV and AL JEZEERA. Russia Today( and Al Jazeera are the only accurate news you can get in amerika now.
    Forget about CNN and FOX.
    They are controlled by corporate shills and political hacks.
    Russian news until 30 years ago was
    controlled by the communist party in the USSR through isvestia. Isvestia was a facist totalitarian propaganda organ of the stalinist communist party of the former USSR.
    All news networks in the United states are propaganda organs. ABC(owned by Disney and wall street) gave 200 thousand dollars to Casey Anthonies murder trial, so they could make money off her murdering her child.
    NBC is controlled by the military industrial complex.
    Fox has a news outlet in every city in the united states. Clear channel(partially owned by the Bush family) owns almost every radio station in the us and every billboard . Clear Channel is also controlled by the Koch brothers. It actively supports and subsidizes broadcasts rush limbaugh, possibly one of the worst propagandists in american history.
    CNN is controlled by time warner and broadcasts mixed messages that confuse people( its partially controlled by the wall street assholes that caused the current depression and made a lot of money off the iraq invasions).
    The only good journalists left cant get jobs with the propaganda oriented, so-called Mainstream Media of the the United States of Amerika. Thom Hartman, Ted Rall, Greg Palast, and Chris Hedges work at Al Jazeera The Arab News network because they are too honest! What a great free country we live in!
    RT TV with Thom Hartman

  399. Vlad Krandz July 20, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    You have to give up this kind of hatred if you want to progress in Buddhism, Dale. Assuming that what you practice is Buddhism at all that is. Last I heard you don’t believe in life after death and consider the Tibetan Book of the Dead to be mere mythology. And I suppose Nirvana is just the Quantum Field? O Wu Li Master!

  400. ozone July 20, 2011 at 1:37 pm #

    “Plant Friends of the Black Walnut”
    Man, too much to learn; too little time.
    (Good, entertaining link to growing and processing there, also.)

  401. trippticket July 20, 2011 at 1:38 pm #

    “Oh, what do you mean by “coastal plain [uphill]”? Is it actually a slightly higher elevation?”
    “Slightly” is the operative word here! I just didn’t want any of you folks who live around actual elevation changes to get the wrong idea when I said “uphill”. We’re at the west end of the farm, and the highest point, in the middle of the farm a quarter mile away, is maybe 25′ higher than we are. Uphill coastal plain style.
    Not sure about the fungal associates of walnuts, good question, primo truffles perhaps, but you’re right, they do grow bloody fast! And they are rude to their neighbors when they’re grown out of context, i.e. in production settings. In a monoculture you wouldn’t tend to care all that much, but then, monocultures are by nature unsustainable. In natural systems they aren’t as obnoxious because of another plant that is often found around them. Hackberry, Celtis occidentalis, is the key to unlocking the juglone. If you plant a few hackberries around them you can grow lots of useful plants under the dripline of a walnut, even nightshades, which typically don’t stand a chance without the hackberry.
    Just an interesting little permaculture strategy for maximizing productive space when walnuts are included. Thought I’d share it with our prospective walnut wrangler;)

  402. Vlad Krandz July 20, 2011 at 1:40 pm #

    Tribes have enough energy to engage in warfare. When Whites first came to these parts, the Spokanes and Couer d’Alenes were engaged in a struggle of Homeric Proportions – brother tribes, both Salish. It started from a rape.
    Even the Hopi, the People of Peace, had a strong warrior cult that even defeated the Apaches on occasion.
    Those who beat their swords into ploughshares will do the ploughing for those that don’t. It’s a game, Trip. Many young men want to fight. Older men are more cautious, but even they are tempted by the idea of easy wealth and booty. It’s not going to end. It was before industry and it will be after – until the Dark Lord lifts his hand, over dead sea and withered land.

  403. Vlad Krandz July 20, 2011 at 1:58 pm #

    No. I don’t believe in WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq 1, 2, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen etc. You believe in them all I believe. I’m for America. By today’s criterion, I’m not even on the board since both parties are globalist – one capitalist and one communist. Not that it makes much difference – Neo Con/Neo Lib, who cares? It’s just marketing strategies to different target audiences. Have and Have Not is the real thing that should be talked about.
    Crushing the Barbary Pirates was a fine action – we should crush the Somali ones too.
    Boers are preparing for the Night of the Long Knives as predicted by their Prophet. Keep up with your subscription to Soldier of Fortune.

  404. trippticket July 20, 2011 at 2:02 pm #

    Perhaps not, but the scale will decrease, and that’s all that matters for human endurance.
    I’m not saying that one mode of life is, by its own merit, superior to the other, I’m just saying that this great big complex one we are engaged in now has the power to destroy all. Warring tribes are just that. Little tribes killing a few of each other’s people. Even if they annihilate each other, so what? They haven’t taken out thousands, or millions, or in the case of nuclear capabilities, even billions, in the process. Much less the biosphere that all other life on Earth depends on.
    Big difference, sir.

  405. Buck Stud July 20, 2011 at 2:10 pm #

    Yep Vlad, Run Run Shaw was the name of the film company as I recall. “Mad Monkey” was one of the better films and the one down below, ” Fearless Hyena” has some brilliant and humorous choreography featuring a young Jackie Chan(the balance training on the ceramic bowls is particularly outstanding).

  406. Buck Stud July 20, 2011 at 2:23 pm #

    Thanks for taking the time to provide your thoughts again. Anger seems to temporarily subvert and marginalize a variety of debilitating emotions – grief, anxiety, fear – while providing a sense of empowerment that facilitates a hand-hold out of the depths. I believe it was Cus D’Amoto who said ” Anger is like fire; you can either use it to heat your house or burn it down.”

  407. lbendet July 20, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

    Good post, Bowling
    I like TH too. Listening to him while I work.
    — LB

  408. Vlad Krandz July 20, 2011 at 2:56 pm #

    Orson!!! The Martians ARE here.

  409. Vlad Krandz July 20, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    Remember the movie about the invention of Tai Chi? A nice young man is almost destroyed by baddies. The chump goes mad, and innocent, discovers nature. Then becomes a hero. And then a hero/sage. He rises to travel to the West. She asks plaintively, “Will I ever see you again?” He replies, “Who can say?”. It’s a perfect ending, a Chinese Western.

  410. asia July 20, 2011 at 3:09 pm #

    So how does one get [to] Nirvana once one sees this
    Buddhists acknowledge an after life and individual
    reincarnations, but not a soul.
    I see Buddhism as an offshoot of Hinduism.

  411. asia July 20, 2011 at 3:12 pm #

    Hasnt it been that way since BHO started his run for the White House?
    A Nobel prize, ‘Europe loves this [leftist goon]’

  412. soak July 20, 2011 at 3:17 pm #

    Buddhism was started in India by a Hindu.
    I still prefer Hinduism to Buddhism, well at least today. Who knows about tomorrow?
    The world is an illusion
    Brahman alone is real
    Brahman is the world

    Or, put another way:
    Flee the many,
    Find the One
    Embrace the Many as the One

    Life in the desert Southwest is grand.
    So much magnificence!

  413. soak July 20, 2011 at 3:43 pm #

    For those times when the pendulum swings toward atheism, then Buddhism is good because it has no God.
    On the other hand, when it comes to gods, Hinduism contains multitudes.
    You can understand my attraction!
    ?? ?????? ??, Om ??nti Om

  414. soak July 20, 2011 at 4:31 pm #

    For those times when no gods is too few and multitudes of gods is too many, we also have a nice selection of hundreds of sects and denominations of religions who believe there is only ONE GOD, the god of Abraham, Isaac, Jesus, and Islam.

  415. trippticket July 20, 2011 at 4:46 pm #

    “Life in the desert Southwest is grand.
    So much magnificence!”
    And quite possibly the worst region in the US, ecologically, to camp for the long emergency. But beautiful, yes.

  416. soak July 20, 2011 at 5:08 pm #

    Tripp, to be fair life in many parts of the USA is extremely fragile. Much of the abundance and convenience of city life is pure illusion, conjured up by a system of underground pipes that deliver water to your home and another set of pipes that magically dispose of your flushed liquid waste. A set of wires brings electricity that makes your home livable (at the great expenditure of energy for heat or cooling), and cheap gasoline makes it possible for fresh produce to magically appear in the grocery stores that feed us all with food from who-knows-where. Take away any one of these — electricity, water, sewers, fuel, food — and virtually every U.S. city becomes an urban death trap for all its citizens. The flipside of this problem exists across Northern USA and Canada, where extremely cold winters make these regions unlivable without the steady importation of heating fuel. Most Americans and Canadians would freeze to death in less than a week if left without some ability to heat their homes during a severe winter freeze. Very few people (in the cities especially) still have free-standing, non-electric wood-burning stoves or effective fireplaces that can keep them warm and alive during such an outage. Most of the younger generation has never even chopped wood! (And wouldn’t know where to start if they had to…)
    I’ll take my chances where I am.

  417. ctemple July 20, 2011 at 5:35 pm #

    And why don’t you fuck off, little makaka?

  418. soak July 20, 2011 at 5:44 pm #

    ctemple, I am banning you from reading or responding to my posts.
    Join those who have learned to scroll past… LOL!

  419. budizwiser July 20, 2011 at 6:01 pm #

    I’ve been watching the Tour de France and the background imagery via the helicopter cameras really demonstrates the nature of rural life across some of Europe.
    It really does appear that “village” and city-based life accounts for a significant portion of the culture. And as a matter of fact i don’t think the “Tour” has gone through any suburb -at least not the American kind – at all.
    When the effect of Peak Oil becomes manifest – America will indeed be in for a profound change.
    I’m glad JK has successfully sounded the warning so as to prepare us all so perfectly. I just hope the TDF organizers can get on board for the future with some sort of vegetable-oil based race caravan…… yuk yuk

  420. soak July 20, 2011 at 6:02 pm #

    A racial slur for dark skinned people which is equivalent to calling them “monkey”. It is a misspelling of “macaca”, a genus of monkeys which includes the rhesus and macacque, or is a misspelling based on a mispronounciation of macaque, a species in that genus of monkey. It is often used in America to describe dark skinned people other than those of African ancestry, such as south Indian or Pakistani, while in other parts of the world refers to all dark skinned people.
    Jai Hanuman!
    Thanks to ctemple for the inspiration and opportunity to share one of my favorite gods.

  421. Vlad Krandz July 20, 2011 at 6:02 pm #

    Bravo Soak – seldom can I agree with much or even anything you say. Welcome to the Land of the Living.
    Someday children will be taught that the first Man on the Moon was a Black Woman named Neela Armstrong. What say you? Is Truth absolute or do we have a right to fudge the facts to make people feel good?

  422. Vlad Krandz July 20, 2011 at 6:06 pm #

    Hanuman was a Chief of the Monkees – the aboriginal peoples of India. He helped the White Aryans defeat a dark skinned race of Demons known as the Rakshashas who were very advanced technically. Thus they couldn’t have been Negro at all. Dark skinned Jackson “Whites”.

  423. Qshtik July 20, 2011 at 6:06 pm #

    And why don’t you fuck off, little makaka?
    Sea Temp, the on-line Dictionary has nothing for “makaka” but it DOES have “macaca” which I googled and selected the blurb below as your likely meaning.
    Do I understand correctly that you are calling Soak a little “monkey?” Not sure why that would be a devastating slur (in what country does this George Allen dude live?) … where I live we’ve been indoctrinate (by the CIA?) to think of them as cute.
    George Allen apologizes for macaca comment ahead of major election …
    Jun 5, 2011 … George Allen apologizes for macaca comment ahead of major … member working for his opponent a “macaca,” a derogatory term meaning monkey. ……

  424. bubbleheadMarc July 20, 2011 at 6:13 pm #

    Yeah, personally I don’t like becoming angry. It’s also very bad for your health. And regarding the propensity to label disagreeable people as “assholes” it needs to be appreciated that if someone is always obnoxious then that in and of itself actually starts striking me as funny. And if you think that someone is funny then it’s kind of hard to get pissed off at them anymore. It’s kind of like the obnoxious female barber I work with who is continually insulting the male barbers but smiles while doing it. It’s impossible to take her seriously enough to become offended. Which reminds me of the fact that Perry Como [It’s Impossible] was an Ohio barber. I liked that routine on SNL where they had him singing that song while laying down on a couch… It’s a good thing that barbers don’t get drug tested.

  425. bubbleheadMarc July 20, 2011 at 6:17 pm #

    Keeping what you said about the expense of the .50 cal. sniper rifle I will scrupulously avoid the more pirate infested areas of Lake Erie from now on when I go canoeing. I saw one of those at Gander Mountain and was amazed by the size of the shells.

  426. Qshtik July 20, 2011 at 6:17 pm #

    That should be indoctrinated.
    The letter D came off the keyboard of my laptop causing occasional D-related errors.

  427. MarlinFive54 July 20, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    Fabian, thanx for the tip. Those things are sweet. Italians, the original armor-makers, are still pretty good metal workers.

  428. soak July 20, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    Sea Temp, the on-line Dictionary has nothing for “makaka” but it DOES have “macaca”
    You are using the wrong dictionary, Q. You are using the white bread dictionary.
    Try this dictionary. It has an entry for MAKAKA.

  429. soak July 20, 2011 at 6:41 pm #

    I will scrupulously avoid the more pirate infested areas of Lake Erie from now on when I go canoeing.
    You can joke about this now … pre-collapse.
    Somalia is just a preview of the future … post-collapse. Lake Erie will not be safe.

  430. soak July 20, 2011 at 6:50 pm #

    Bravo Soak
    Thank you, Vlad.

  431. soak July 20, 2011 at 6:51 pm #


  432. trippticket July 20, 2011 at 6:57 pm #

    Really? Magic food? Magic power in the walls? Come on, Soak. What do you take me for?
    I’m talking about regional ecologies. And yours is by far the least forgiving in North America. Start with patterns and work to details.

  433. Vlad Krandz July 20, 2011 at 6:59 pm #

    Good quote from Ramana I believe. Or was he quoting? In any case, it is the essence of the Vedas. The world is both real and unreal – just as a wave cannot be grasped but the Ocean is Mighty and Omnipresent.

  434. Vlad Krandz July 20, 2011 at 7:03 pm #

    True. You’re on a streak. Lincoln was almost killed by Black River pirates while on the Missisippi.

  435. trippticket July 20, 2011 at 7:23 pm #

    So I finally got the call! I put my name out on the coconut (peanut?) telegraph a few months ago, that I was interested in a swarm of honeybees if anyone heard of one. Got notice a little while ago that there’s one in a dogwood tree at someone’s house west of town. Got my suit all ready, my trashcan and lid, and my ladder and saw. Went by and it’s not a swarm! It’s three active combs hanging from that limb! So I’m waiting until dusk to go back and get it so that the workers will all be back from foraging. Woo-hoo!! If all goes well I’ll be a beekeeper by the time I go to bed. For the rest of my life most likely. Another cross-road. Fresh raw honey for the holidays, anyone?
    Using the top bar method to house them. Way cool way to keep bees. The advocates say it’s pretty much the answer to colony collapse disorder, so I’m excited to see how it goes.

  436. soak July 20, 2011 at 7:35 pm #

    C’mon, Tripp. Read what I wrote: “Much of the abundance and convenience of city life is pure illusion…”
    I’m talking about city dwellers. You don’t live in a city, so what I wrote doesn’t apply directly to you. But I was making a point by using city dwellers.
    My point remains that much of the population of the United States, not just the desert Southwest, is victim to hyper-complexity and lack of connection to natural environment, and therefore vulnerable in a collapse scenario.

  437. ozone July 20, 2011 at 7:51 pm #

    Hearty congratulations!
    Fine “catch”, and proof of the old saw: “You don’t ask, you don’t get.”
    I’ve noticed that lavender is a great, long-lasting blossom for providing a bridge between other flowers, that pollinators flock to in the hundreds. (Blackberry blossoms gone, of course, although clover seems to be doing a pretty good job of filling in, too.) Weirdest variety of bees, moths, flies, and butterflies I’ve ever seen! Strange critters out in these h’yar woods. ….That’s a good thing.
    Anyhoo, great doin’s! Keep a’goin’!

  438. trippticket July 20, 2011 at 7:55 pm #

    Right. Post-collapse Tuscon has just as much to offer in the way of human needs as Montgomery. You got it, Soak. I mean, minus the water, the forests, the game animals, the fish, the rain, the topsoil, the…

  439. trippticket July 20, 2011 at 8:01 pm #

    Thanks, O3! We got lots of lavender and mints, and I’ll be multiplying those fast as I can.
    Off to get my bees!!

  440. soak July 20, 2011 at 8:14 pm #

    “You got it, Soak. I mean, minus the water, the forests, the game animals, the fish, the rain, the topsoil, the…”
    Don’t be so smug, Tripp. The southeast is not immune to drought. See the NOAA data for the southeast June 2011.

  441. Vlad Krandz July 20, 2011 at 8:15 pm #

    Death be not proud be it by gun, poison dart, or in jaws of a crock. The Earth abides.

  442. soak July 20, 2011 at 8:16 pm #
    Drought conditions continued to worsen across parts of the Southeast in June. … The extreme heat and dryness also had a negative impact on agriculture. … Water supplies were severely affected in some communities. Groundwater levels were near record low levels across parts of central and southern Georgia, requiring municipalities to increase the depth of their wells to maintain water supplies.

  443. soak July 20, 2011 at 8:46 pm #

    Tripp said: “I’m talking about regional ecologies.”
    Yes, and you are also making gross and inaccurate generalizations of said regions. The southwest (as defined by the National Park Service includes AZ, CA, CO, NV, NM, UT and has five ecological subregions.

  444. soak July 20, 2011 at 8:52 pm #

    These five southwest ecological regions have arid desert, but also plains and tablelands (plateaus or mesas), interspersed with high relief mountainous areas, alpine meadows, pinyon-juniper woodlands, transitioning to Douglas-fir, subalpine fir and spruce at higher altitudes, etc. It is difficult to generalize about “the southwest” when average rainfall ranges from 3-48 inches! (high elevation areas receiving much more moisture)

  445. ozone July 20, 2011 at 10:35 pm #

    Ahhhh, now here be an extremely revelatory screed that I KNOW you’ll grok (and grok, like, fuckin’ totally, dude).
    A slice; just to get the gist:
    “Early in the Industrial Age, William Blake apprehended humankind had begun to negotiate existence “[a]mong these dark Satanic mills.” Blake was not mortified by the mill itself: He was repelled by the imprint the machine left on the mind. This was the factor that he deemed Satanic i.e., positing the image as metaphor for the manner that Satan, the mythical embodiment of the human psyche’s unconscious drives, desires and compulsions (and attendant rationalizations) can imprison the human psyche and chain it in his service.” -The Seeker as Rockstroh
    Screwwwwww all these deniers of the crippling, shame-worthy truths. It’s what one BELIEVES IN that is the measure of ones’ approach to a viable or suicidal future. Those who are desperately posting pant-loads of supposed “pith” know that the agit-prop they spew is losing its’ credibility/”impact” by leaps and bounds PER DAY. Hell, just look at the sheer number of frivolous postings just designed to waste your time, energy, thought, and patience. (Notice also, that it’s never been denied that they’ve been paid/otherwise employed to spray their spew as far as limits of projectile vomiting will allow. Perhaps there is a Rubicon of legality that dare not be crossed, for fear of deadly future retribution.)

  446. trippticket July 20, 2011 at 11:39 pm #

    This is why you make music and I just grow shit. I wish I owned your pen. Together we could make millions! BWAhahahahaha!!
    Thanks for the article.

  447. trippticket July 20, 2011 at 11:48 pm #

    If I be the druid, and you the bard, who then is the ovate?
    ‘To you alone it is given to know the truth about the gods and deities of the sky…The innermost groves of far-off forests are your abodes. And it is you who say that the shades of the dead seek not the silent land of Erebus and the pale halls of Pluto; rather, you tell us that the same spirit has a body again elsewhere, and that death, if what you sing is true, is but the mid-point of long life.’
    Lucan Pharsalia c.60 CE

  448. trippticket July 20, 2011 at 11:55 pm #

    Hey, Soak, if you feel comfortable in the arid SW, as the cheap abundant energy that made European settlement of that region possible dries up, then by all means, ENJOY!! Who am I to get in your way?
    Just out of curiosity though, how does one generally prepare gila monster or scorpion? Oh wait, vegetarian, forgot, I mean how does one generally prepare Joshua tree or sagebrush?

  449. trippticket July 21, 2011 at 12:07 am #

    Honeybee capture was a success! Took me two tries though. I chickened out the first time, but in the end I came home with them. The first try I got the two branches exiting the comb trimmed off, but most of them came after me and freaked me out a little. I started wondering if they were ‘Africanized’ bees or something; they seriously wanted to hurt me. So I packed up and returned the beekeeping gear to my grandfather, who promptly gave my lily ass a pep talk and sent me back out to get them. So I cut them down, shaking a bunch loose again, which hung out on me for even longer this time, one even stinging me on the left calf somehow. I don’t mind one honeybee sting too much, but I was quick to kill the two that got in my bonnet! I’ll toughen up. Matter of fact I’m kind of apiphobic, so I’m hoping keeping bees will cure me of that. Gardening with wasps on my team has certainly helped. I wouldn’t kill a wasp now if you paid me. They eat a lot of veggie munching caterpillars!
    So the honeybees are here, in a big Rubbermaid trashcan on the picnic table under the barn (away from the house), uncovered so they can reconnoiter the territory at first light. I’ll be building them a permanent home over the next couple of days. Just glad to have that first swarm capture done!

  450. Vlad Krandz July 21, 2011 at 12:31 am #

    When Adam delved and Eve span, who then was the gentleman?

  451. jackieblue2u July 21, 2011 at 2:41 am #

    Well I know I have been mis using this board, saying too much, and need to stop. and if I post stay on topic.
    Thanks for your input.
    No one really knows who anyone is.
    I get it.

  452. Vlad Krandz July 21, 2011 at 2:44 am #
    Chimp threatens Blacks with automatic rifle. They run.

  453. jackieblue2u July 21, 2011 at 2:47 am #

    I know you mean well (maybe.)
    But why should I, the woman hit the fucking hiway ?
    You don’t get it. A real man would leave.
    I ain’t got nowhere to go. and no way to get there, he made real sure of that.
    Somethings you don’t understand.

  454. jackieblue2u July 21, 2011 at 3:16 am #

    I was getting too personal on here.
    Never happened before on line. Well basically I only post here.
    Got a crush on someone, I am going to stay on topic from now on.
    Hey I do enjoy this site and the posters, and postings.
    A couple tho are too crude. I don’t know how they last so long.
    I do love the subject matter. I enjoy tripps postings about gardening. I wish wish wish I could have one.
    Many folks post valuable information.
    I try. or I’ll just lay low. and read.
    I love libraries also.

  455. Patrizia July 21, 2011 at 5:00 am #

    My question was kind of provocative.
    Of course I perfectly know WHY we ALWAYS have somebody to rule us.
    I am no socialist and no conservative, I am pragmatist.
    I know that a monopoly should work better and be cheaper.
    If you do things in a large scale they usually cost less.
    Unless you do them for the State, which is usually an entity that doesn´t belong to anybody, but it is a good milking cow for many.
    That is why it would work better and be cheaper if things where privately done in a competitive environment.
    Competition is what you need to keep prices low.
    And you also have zero corruption, which is the big problem of today, when the bigger you are the less you have to fear justice.
    Corruption and lack of a working justice seem to be the main problems and the source of ALL other problems.
    Since human nature is NOT the one you expect in a Saint, justice and the fear of punishment should keep the environment OK.
    When you do not fear the consequences of what you do, then you usually behave in the way that best suits you, which is usually not what suits the others.

  456. metuselah July 21, 2011 at 6:14 am #

    The big problem we face in world is that people are too respectful of the government mafia and its institutions. Institutions such as the monarchy, such as the corporations, such as religion, such as the media, such as the school system, such as the police, such as the army, such as the tax collectors, such as the lawyers and their court system, etc., these are completely discredited instruments of power and control and need to be dismantled and done away with.
    Anything that people don’t get to directly decide and vote upon, has zero legitimacy and should not be allowed to exist in a free and democratic society.

  457. metuselah July 21, 2011 at 6:32 am #

    ..problem we face in ^the world..

  458. Patrizia July 21, 2011 at 6:40 am #

    You forgot the Banks…

  459. metuselah July 21, 2011 at 6:45 am #

    I was waiting for you.

  460. lbendet July 21, 2011 at 7:25 am #

    Hey Tripp,
    Congrats on expanding your efforts to beekeeping! This will serve you well. I had neighbors years ago that got into beekeeping and as a regular at the Greenmarket in NYC I’ve gotten to know at least four vendors who offer many different varieties.
    On in particular, David Graves is worth noting and his honey is the best I’ve bought here–expensive but really great. He cultivates his hives on the roofs of buildings in Brooklyn
    Here is is story:
    Sorry can’t post the URL so just google Rooftop honey.
    [NEW YORK—At the Union Square Greenmarket on any given Sunday (correction: It’s Mon,Wed, Fri and Sat.) the fresh produce and various fresh food products almost all come from somewhere, usually a farm, outside of New York City limits—David Graves’ New York City Rooftop Honey is a different story. As its name suggests, Graves’ raw honey is made from beehives kept on 12 New York City rooftops, from the Bronx to the Upper East Side to Lower Manhattan to Brooklyn…]

  461. lbendet July 21, 2011 at 7:37 am #

    Patrizia and M.
    Note what has been revealed in the Murdoch case in England. The press was acting as an arbiter in all areas of government and police–you can’t imagine the corruption that has become of the fourth estate. No wonder the truth has been lost in the power scuffle. Who can even vote in these countries? You don’t have a clue what’s going on.
    So is it a coincidence that a week before the Murdoch press corruption story in England blew-up, there was a big story on MSNBC at least that showed how the Nixon administration wanted to create a media outlet as propaganda machine for the Republican party?
    Non other than Mr. Roger Ailes, Republican media strategist signed his name to articles regarding such a new organization. In 1996 it became a reality–Fox News. Ah, and the rest is history…

  462. bubbleheadMarc July 21, 2011 at 7:43 am #

    It’s not every day that you get to wake up to an armed chimpanzee shooting up the militia in some African garden spot. Unfortunately the film quality is so high that it has to be a clip from a theatrical movie. If not though then perhaps I could recruit this chimp to ride shotgun amidships in my canoe when Lake Erie becomes infested with pirates as per soak’s prophesy. Maybe I could dress the chimp up in the old navy work uniform of bell bottomed seafarers jeans, a short sleeved chambray work shirt, and a dixie cup white hat bent over and steamed to look just like Jack Nicholson’s in “The Last Detail”. We could give him a cute nickname too maybe something like “boats” which could be short for the boatswain from hell.

  463. bubbleheadMarc July 21, 2011 at 7:48 am #

    I thought it was the dude who abides. If you don’t recognize this reference rent a copy of “The Big Lebowski”.

  464. bubbleheadMarc July 21, 2011 at 8:00 am #

    Excellent geographical input vis a vis the southwest. It is indeed a highly variegated [sp?] region, and some of the states therein are so large that they contain markedly different climates just within that one state.
    Pertaining to other comments you’ve made I will concede that it probably won’t be safe much of anywhere if civilization collapses hence the plausibility of eventual piracy on the great lakes. But then in such a world people’s homesteads and gardens wouldn’t be safe either, which is why I suspect that food production would need to be furtive in order to thwart foragers. Consequently I could foresee indoor vegetable gardens similar to currently furtive marijuana grow-ops. And although it would seem that more water is always better one cannot forget that water in superabundance can be extremely destructive.

  465. trippticket July 21, 2011 at 9:57 am #

    Thanks for the good wishes, LB!
    Rooftop honey (and/or gardening) always struck me as the most natural of things. It’s a lot of unused, relatively quiet space, and it moves the flight path of the worker bees up high away from the people. You’re good to support that enterprise!
    Our market here is small, about 8 vendors, and only happens once a week, or twice during the height of the season. Ah, one day…
    We already have a honey guy so I’m not interested in producing for market, although we’ll probably be the only top bar keepers in this area, and as people find out about the benefits of top bar keeping, they will appreciate what we’re doing and would probably pay a premium, like you do for city rooftop honey. But we use plenty, have lots of family to share with, and our herbal creams use beeswax, so we have just brought another ingredient that much closer to home. ‘Round here we’ll soon be measuring our produce, mushrooms, beef, soap, and herbal medicines in “food feet” instead of food miles! Although I guess it’s about 8 miles to the market, so that’ll have to be counted…until I start doing it on bicycle…

  466. metuselah July 21, 2011 at 10:02 am #

    Note what has been revealed in the Murdoch case in England.
    What has been revealed in England? That Murdoch’s corporate people are little people in England, while the MI6/BBC swine are not?
    Let me make it clear, anyone thinking in Left/Right partisan terms is an idiot. I said this to “EL Toro”, and I say the same to you.

  467. Buck Stud July 21, 2011 at 11:04 am #

    I saw this link at another blog, The Automatic Earth, and I thought this is a Spider wet dream. Perhaps not as unbelievable as Leonardo’s aeronautical designs must have seemed back in the day, but interesting nonetheless:

  468. Joe Palooka July 21, 2011 at 11:12 am #

    Sir. The best thing you can do for yourself and country is to let go of the bitterness (I will show you how shortly). Your service to this country represents your love of what the Founding Fathers went through to start a new nation. Even though there are millions of selfish souless individuals in our country — many of them leaving foul-mouthed, dirty minded comments in this silly blog — your service is not forgotten by God, who allowed for this great nationto exist in the first place. You provided a great service as a miliatry man in honor of those countless thousands who died for this country and to help uphold what is remaining of the country. Now, the bitterness is like a piece of candy — we tend to enjoy it and become used to it, or addicted to it. All you have to do is to allow true objectivity to enter and it will separate you from the anger and angry thoughts — this can be applied to any addiction in life. So, how do you do it? Take a look at this articel that outlines the simple technique that is helping thousands of service members. It will link you to the group called where you can obtain the “be still and know” technique for free. May God bless you — and all others on this site, even those who,, like the author, do not believe in any God greater than thier own (puny) minds.

  469. trippticket July 21, 2011 at 11:13 am #

    How perfect! Just like Spider the “visionaries” responsible for this idea don’t even know the difference between a dragonfly and a butterfly!
    I can understand the appeal though.

  470. Buck Stud July 21, 2011 at 11:14 am #

    This is the architects website:
    Perhaps there might be some interest in discussing his essays.

  471. Joe Palooka July 21, 2011 at 11:14 am #

    Sorry — the article is at this site:

  472. dale July 21, 2011 at 11:17 am #

    You have to give up this kind of hatred if you want to progress in Buddhism, Dale.
    That statement is undoubtedly true, but it’s not true that I “hate you” Vlad, I actually feel sorry for you. That being said, every now and then someone has to step up and respond to your constant efforts to propagandize this website. I happen to feel that parody and sarcasm are best in this environment, especially since you have shown yourself completely impervious to scientific truth regarding genetics and humanity.
    The reality is you are a frightened, sad little man, who is trying to disguise his deep seated feelings of inferiority and failure by the simple psychological tactic of transference.
    When I mentioned the fact that racist fascism is a salve for losers, that is painfully obvious to anyone who watches the televised video of these pathetic creatures when they get together for one of their little picnics. What a sad collection of morally degenerate pipsqueaks, and mentally challenged thugs.
    What is particularly ridiculous is your constant touting of the presumed values of the “white race”, and your membership therein. In fact, if you are actually slavic, then you are not a member of this “elite” race, but an admixture of white and mongoloid blood. So, by the accepted definition of your own heros, you are inferior, anyone of truly “nordic” background is racially you better.
    Equally pathetic BTW, are those on this website who encourage you by imagining they are just being “open minded” listening to your foolish drivel. They simply have those same feelings of inferiority you do and can’t face up to it.
    Simply put Vlad, compassion in your case is not a pat on the back, but a bucket of cold water in the face. Here’s yours.

  473. dale July 21, 2011 at 11:25 am #

    So how does one get [to] Nirvana once one sees this
    Buddhists acknowledge an after life and individual
    reincarnations, but not a soul.
    I see Buddhism as an offshoot of Hinduism.
    Buddhism did arise in a Hindu culture, or a culture with many of the attributes of modern Hinduism.
    Without at least a glimpse of the meaning of “emptiness”, a somewhat misleading term, you really can’t understand the Buddhist implication of such dualities as; birth/death, nirvana/samsara etc., which are also realitive truths, with no inherent existance. You can develop some “feel” for this view by reading some of the articles of physicists like Penrose or Wheeler, or working with a good Buddhist teacher, but it is pretty absurd to try and explain it in a forum like this.

  474. Buck Stud July 21, 2011 at 11:30 am #

    I don’t have your expertise on the subject, so I don’t feel impelled to immediately dismiss the design concept, in fact, I want to read more, hence my mention of his essays.
    My immediate reaction to this article and website was what a potentially exciting time to be an architect in the next few decades. And that perhaps the image of architect can transform from monetized circus seal with a ball on his nose – JHK’s denunciation of the ‘tumor laden’ building – and elevated back to a more sublime and splendorous role: that of the Poet and Prophet.

  475. messianicdruid July 21, 2011 at 11:32 am #

    Pretty pictures do not a self-sufficient self-sustaining building make. If you could build something this big the shape would follow function. Use the dragonfly wings as propellers or to open doors or run the elevators or turn itself into shadows/lit-up areas.

  476. newworld July 21, 2011 at 11:36 am #

    Since Europe is the most feminized of the white lands it is easy to figure out that they never will default till the very, very end. This is the mentallity of a woman, I don’t fault this it just is. Simply put this means monetazation till no one accepts its currency.
    In America the banker class is dominated by a feminine minded cult that has coughed up Ben Bernanke as an example so this country will monetize till no once accepts its currency.
    Caveat, if the New Republic and or Commentary magazine tell us that this monetazation is bad for the people of BB’s cult then go short.
    Don’t you stupid libkids tell me about some utopia, you just tell me from where a person comes from, then I’ll tell you how it will all work out.

  477. newworld July 21, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    Speaking to all you anti-Whites including Cash. The DHS has made it clear that terrorists are most likely to be middle class whites.
    Now I know in the infantile mind of a lib cultist whites are both real and unreal, but in this case take our government seriously. Those people who work to pay those taxes are terrorists, end of story.
    Secondly this question, how can you build a first world country out of people who cannot discern reality from unreality? One more question, why do any of you join these anti-white cults?

  478. dale July 21, 2011 at 11:53 am #

    While in general terms I agree with your comments about the ecological limits of the SW US, it is also true that modern PV technology, married to a little good architecture, is able to create very comfortable interior living space on the hottest days in that latitude, without being on the grid.
    Something no one would have imagined possible 20 years ago.
    I admire your comittment to what you believe, while hoping that most of what you believe is simply untrue. Frankly, no one knows what will happen next, but my guess would be that a combination of conservation and new technology, make it unlikely our demise will be driven by energy shortfall anytime in our lifetimes.

  479. soak July 21, 2011 at 11:58 am #

    Just out of curiosity though, how does one generally prepare gila monster or scorpion? Oh wait, vegetarian, forgot, I mean how does one generally prepare Joshua tree or sagebrush?

    Very funny, Tripp. 🙁 I’ll see your sarcastic humor, and raise you with some factual information about horticulture in “the southwest” which you caricature with your stereotypes. People around these parts are fairly ecologically conscious so heirloom seeds are available. Fruit trees grow here, as do walnut trees, pinon pine. In addition, pomegranates, nectarines, jujube trees, and almonds grow here. Passionflower and grapevines are common. Mints, aloe, dandelions (don’t laugh, Tripp, I love them!), corriander, purslane, arugula (me and Obama, baby!), tarragon, nasturtiums, rosemary, lemon balm, parsley, dill, fennel, and chives (just to name a few) can also be cultivated. Many of these grow within the drip-line of the fruit trees. Instead of using Gila Monster guano, we actually do have things called chickens here and composted manure is available. Fertile soil is possible here through a combination of drip irrigation with wood shavings, straw, pecan hulls, and dry bluegrass clippings.
    Tripp, you must have some kind of Sahara Desert image in your mind, but that is not the American Southwest. It doesn’t hurt to have 330 days of sun and a 250 day growing season!
    Carry on, Tripp.

  480. asia July 21, 2011 at 11:59 am #

    Yes. When I hear Ian Masters on KPFK he goes on n on about ‘white christian terrorists in the USA’.
    Paid for by US taxpayers [NPR is that is].
    The Terror [pun in tended] the left has
    of them dang ‘teabaggers’ [read white citizens]
    Confirms to me their [the lefts] self hatred [whites hating whites].

  481. asia July 21, 2011 at 12:02 pm #

    And you have experienced these things
    [knowledge of past / future lives]
    or is it Dogma for you?

  482. asia July 21, 2011 at 12:05 pm #

    Folks need a scapegoat and for JHK
    da south, youth [under 40] with Tatts…
    and some other subgroups [fill in the blank] are it

  483. lbendet July 21, 2011 at 12:54 pm #

    Keep your eye on the particulars
    If you read my posts, you’ll know that I’m only too aware that the neoliberal and neoconservative ideologies converged on both parties, rendering them indistinguishable and nothing more than a duopoly with the illusion that we have a vote.
    That said, and I was at Time Inc. for over 10 years, I know some of these playas.
    My discussion was…interesting to note that the Murdoch story in GB broke out a week after the Nixon administration_Ailes story broke out here…

  484. lbendet July 21, 2011 at 12:59 pm #

    I don’t think JHK is scapegoating anybody–believe it or not, it’s like the cheese doodle thing. It’s symbolic of what he’s trying to illustrate.
    It could be anything from the fast food industry to the breakdown of culture for those going from boys-to-men.
    What does it mean for a young person to become a man in the US @ 2011?

  485. lbendet July 21, 2011 at 1:01 pm #

    You are moving in a great direction, building your farm one step at a time.
    We are entering into my favorite season for produce from late July through October!
    I’ll be keeping up with you. I’m a vicarious gardener.

  486. messianicdruid July 21, 2011 at 1:19 pm #

    “Going broke fast” is not a compelling problem if you don’t acknowledge it. The Feds ARE broke:
    “Politicians also need to acknowledge that our debt is unsustainable. For decades our government has been spending and promising far more than it collects in taxes. But the problem is not that the people are not taxed enough. The government has managed to run up $61.6 trillion in unfunded liabilities, which works out to $528,000 per household. A tax policy that would aim to extract even half that amount of money from American families would be unimaginably draconian, and not unlike attempting to squeeze blood from a turnip. This is, unequivocally, a spending problem brought about by a dramatically inflated view of the proper role of government in a free society.
    Perhaps the most abhorrent bit of chicanery has been the threat that if a deal is not reached to increase the debt by August 2nd, social security checks may not go out. In reality, the Chief Actuary of Social Security confirmed last week that current Social Security tax receipts are more than enough to cover current outlays. The only reason those checks would not go out would be [ >>> if the administration decided to spend those designated funds elsewhere.

  487. messianicdruid July 21, 2011 at 1:31 pm #

    Lawrence Summers, in the Financial Times yesterday, presented this as his third principle of dealing with the Euro crisis:
    “there must be a clear commitment that, whatever else happens, no big financial institution in any country will be allowed to fail.”
    And so we have a clear unambiguous statement of the principle of socialism for the rich and powerful, and capitalism, red in tooth and claw, for the poor. Notice that too big to fail has now gone global. Over the past 24 hours this has been sitting out there with no push back or comment from the media. Is it simply an accepted fact that governments around the world — including our own — will now maintain a system where no large financial institution — no matter how corrupt or incompetent — will be allowed to fail?
    This while the same financial and political elites demand that all social-safety-nets be sacrificed on the pagan altar of the capitalism?
    Trying to create a world financial system where “no big financial institution in any country will be allowed to fail” is an unsustainable act of hubris and is itself doomed to failure. Doing so while simultaneously casting the poor adrift is shameful.

  488. metuselah July 21, 2011 at 1:48 pm #

    I was at Time Inc. for over 10 years, I know some of these playas.
    Then you know that Time Inc. is a propaganda outlet for the partisan idiots captured by the Democratic Party.
    What I want to know is, when are we going to see corporations pay 80% tax on their gross revenue like the rest of us, and when will their board of directors and top management face incarceration in Guantanamo Bay on charges of racketing, influence peddling, bribery, tax evasion, fraud, economic sabotage, terrorism and war.

  489. MarlinFive54 July 21, 2011 at 1:48 pm #

    Vlad, I don’t subscribe to SOF magazine. My soldiering days are behind me.
    BBHMarc, canoeing on the Great Lakes? Steer clear of those shipping lanes! Out on the open sea, probably even on the Great Lakes, its very hard too spot anything on the surface smaller than a PT Boat. I wonder what those lake frieghters do for watches while underway. Probably just the guy at the helm.
    Rode to upper west branch of the Farmington River today for trout fishing. 100d.F out but 20d cooler along the river, with a breeze coming down thru the valley. Many canoes floating by, main carge appearing to be coolers of cold beer. I was offered cold ones but declined in a spirit of abstinence. (had a 35 mile ride home) I dug my own worms so the whole morning cost me about $3 (for gas) JHK’s theme this week was of a nation disolving before our very eyes, but nobody round here, least ways ,seems worried about it too much, and everybody is enjoying themselves in this glorious summer.

  490. Cash July 21, 2011 at 2:07 pm #

    The DHS has made it clear that terrorists are most likely to be middle class whites. – Newworld
    Assuming what you say is true then I have a question: do the people in the DHS have peckers in their heads fucking their brains?
    One more question, why do any of you join these anti-white cults? – Newworld
    And I have a question for you. Do you have pecker in your head fucking YOUR brains?
    One more dickhead for the scroll past list.

  491. soak July 21, 2011 at 2:17 pm #

    JULY 21: “It’s hard to comprehend how the United State House of Representatives, at the height of this fiscal crisis, has decided to take the weekend off,” Reid said, suggesting it was a way for the GOP leaders to give in to the extreme wing of the party that wants a default, without actually appearing to do so. Reid noted that Senate rules allow any senator to slow the legislative process there to a crawl with objections — and that a number of senators have said they oppose raising the nation’s debt ceiling. With a debt deadline looming on Aug. 2, any lawmaker in the more deliberative body could snarl the process if any legislation comes from the House too late.

    Anybody still believe the fix is in? Is the “fix” to default? If so, who will benefit from the USA defaulting?
    It doesn’t look like there will be any last minute agreement to avoid default. Default is why I have moved my SHTF window to less than a year.

  492. Vlad Krandz July 21, 2011 at 2:24 pm #

    Sorry about the misunderstanding about your SOF subscription. Also sorry that the Boers are not going to go quietly into the Night of Extinction like good White boys.

  493. Vlad Krandz July 21, 2011 at 2:28 pm #

    I like the image. I used to have a shirt like that but I gave it Lara – she called it the Baltic Sailor Shirt. But let’s call the Chimp Bonzo in honor of Ronald Reagan and the Chimp in that classic “Bonzo Goes to College”.

  494. Cash July 21, 2011 at 2:30 pm #

    Maybe not kleptocrats but maybe gangs of bullyboys.
    We had a family in my hometown of that ilk. There were two brothers in that family who were terrors and their father who was well connected enough that somehow the “law” couldn’t quite come to grips with these fellas. And so it was robberies, assaults, threats and the like.
    The story did have a happy ending. One day the bros were confronted by a very pissed off gang that put the boots to them. And eventually there was enough pressure brought to bear that the “law” had to deal with them.
    I can’t remember hearing of that view of unemployment (keep enough people out of work to depress wage rates and it’s worth paying unemployment benefits) but given the depravities of our monied classes I can’t say I’m surprised that there’s adherents to that way of thinking.

  495. Vlad Krandz July 21, 2011 at 2:32 pm #

    People have become very “conservative” – afraid of radical change, stuck in their ways, waiting for events to happen rather than making them happen, – or wating for someone to save them. Feminine? You bet. The Goverment is the Father and increasingly even the Husband. Why should women bother staying married when they have Him or Big Sis for the Lesbians.

  496. soak July 21, 2011 at 2:33 pm #

    2012… How could the Mayans have known the USA was going belly up and wrecking the world economy in the process circa 2012?
    I apologize if I misled anyone into thinking we had 47 years more. (that referred to peak oil decline)
    But I fear I was also misleading on TSHTF. I am a fool. I was wrong. We are so fucked. From this foolish Black man, I wish you all good luck.
    Of course, it is up to you to decide whether or not to believe the words of a fool. 🙂

  497. lbendet July 21, 2011 at 2:40 pm #

    Oh how time changes everything
    Time was founded by Briton Hadden and Henry Luce. Luce was the son of Missionaries who worked in China. He was a real right winger–.
    I worked on a photo exhibit of Life Staff photograher Dmitri Kessel. An 85-yr. old living in Paris, Kessel came to NY and among many other appointments He me with me for an interview for the write-up for the show and captions for the images I selected.
    He told me that Luce sent him and writer John Hersey for 9 months in 1948. What amazing photos he took! [not to mention some great stories]
    There was supposed to be an issue devoted to the trip, but when Hersey informed Luce that Mao was going to win, Luce scrapped the idea and turned the story into an 8-page spread instead.
    So ironic to hear that it has become a propaganda tool for the Dems.
    I like what you wrote in your next paragraph. These greedy fools don’t know what’s good for them. They should bring the tax rate up for them again and build this country up–it would be well worth it for them to do so, although they just don’t see it.
    Too bad–‘Cuz No Man is an Island….

  498. jackieblue2u July 21, 2011 at 2:42 pm #

    hey fabian,
    duh. most on here know i am not that bright.
    thanks for reminding me tho.
    and from now on i am going to stay on topic if i post.
    i got too personal on here.
    while what you say is untimately the truth, it ain’t like i don’t know that…well hold your judgements until you’ve walked in my boots. you might mean well, i don’t know, can’t tell, doesn’t matter. your messages have double meanings.
    anyway the topic isn’t me, and i am sorry i said so much on here.
    sorry everyone else. thanks for being nice.
    me…back on topic.

  499. lbendet July 21, 2011 at 2:45 pm #

    Please don’t respond to my posts, you just don’t get my sense of irony, do you.
    You don’t always have to be so serious and on the war path, ya, know.
    Just have a chuckle.

  500. lbendet July 21, 2011 at 2:48 pm #

    no need to apologize to anyone here.
    I feel for you in this difficult time and wish you the best. Remember you have a future and when the time comes you can concentrate on building that for yourself.

  501. soak July 21, 2011 at 2:50 pm #

    Too bad–‘Cuz No Man is an Island….
    Lbendet, are you hearing them, too?
    For whom are those damn bells tolling anyway?

  502. metuselah July 21, 2011 at 2:53 pm #

    These greedy fools don’t know what’s good for them.
    Be glad. The longer they keep this up, the more people will finally wake up to reality. This edifice can only exist through people’s ignorant acquiescence. Hopefully, that condition is coming to an end.

  503. Vlad Krandz July 21, 2011 at 2:53 pm #

    Why is standing up for one’s People pathetic? If I was Black, Brown, or Yellow you wouldn’t say this. No Dale. You have to explain what you have against the White Race, YOUR Race.
    When people are trained to do business with the Japanese, they are adivsed not to run down the United States. The Japanese take a dim view of the character of people who run down their own in front of outsiders. Why would anyone want to do business with back stabbers and traitors? Why Dale, Why?
    Your “white race” quotation marks and small caps are just more proof of your betrayal, Judas. After all, a people who don’t exist can’t have any rights – unlike the very real Blacks and Browns. Cognitive terrorism straight from the workshop of Noel Ignatiev and the pages of Race Traitor magazine.
    Btw, to our eternal shame, White Nationalism has largely been a lower class and lower middle class affair – just as no one cared about the loss of our manufacturing base until the middle class was effected. Luckily that is changing as more and more Third Worlders pour in taking the jobs Whites wont do: doctors, engineers, IT, Business Management, etc. It would have been nice if Whites awakened decades ago but the Conditioning was too great. And people believed that it really was our Media and that people like Lippmann, Cronkite, Murrow, etc were really our friends and not just paid dupes or worse as in case of Lippmann.

  504. soak July 21, 2011 at 2:55 pm #

    Jackieblue, while I don’t know any specifics about your situation, I do know that if you feel psychologically or physically abused by your partner, there are places that can provide you with counseling and help you make an escape and start over.
    Assuming you are in California this is a list that might be of help.

  505. Vlad Krandz July 21, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    There’s a strong movement to secularize and rationalize Buddhism in the West – much as Christianity has been. There are “Buddhist” teachers who don’t believe in life after death, the Gods, Demons, real reincarnation of some kind, etc. The old rationalist school tried to make Buddhism into merely a moral teaching. The new school make it into Psychology and Therapy. You know like we are dying and being born every instant, the recognition of which is Enlightenment. Of course this is true but their realization of this is very superificial – as is evident in their lives and inability to give up ordinary pleasure what to speak of monastic renounciation. There was a famous article in Trident Magazine a few years ago that lambasted most of Buddhism in the West.

  506. lbendet July 21, 2011 at 3:05 pm #

    ONE HOPES–but ya know these guys like playing on the uneven playing field and they hate to lose…
    gee I wonder how far they would go not to lose.
    Soak–funny I do hear the bells tolling and I think it’s all for us.

  507. Bustin J July 21, 2011 at 3:06 pm #

    Soak chants: “The world is an illusion
    Brahman alone is real
    Brahman is the world”
    The thing I never liked about transcendental religions is that it is indulgent. It is a childish escape from the world of reality, through nonsense chanting. It is, like many old-world imports, just something for people with creativity, courage, or brainpower to adopt in order to be the heavy-set simian they are.
    Religion and spirituality is the end of creativity, the end of life, the end of responsibility. Once you cross that rubicon you are no different from all the other failed human beings on the planet to ascribe to some form of empty fantasy of enlightenment through mythological thinking.
    For thousands of years, humanity has listened to this stupid shit, and it has accomplished nothing. It is a dead-end intellectually and emotionally. It is sad, to me, to know that, right now, millions of children are being brainwashed into believing this crap, while at the same time, the adult world of believers chips away at the real, extant foundations of life on Earth.
    Go ahead and insert your inanities below, about how athiesm causes communism which causes genocide. Reply with your ridiculous pithy sound-bites and self-justifying, indulgent shit about how enlightened you are.
    Maybe I am more irritated than usual, as I rode my bike past a 5 acre plot, formerly wooded, now a parking lot with a large Church on it, who pay no taxes on the land, who gather a large constituency every week to fill the parking lot with fossil-fueled vehicles, gather inside, and discuss how homosexuality is a mental illness and forgive each other for being douche-bags.

  508. Qshtik July 21, 2011 at 3:12 pm #

    when are we going to see corporations pay 80% tax on their gross revenue like the rest of us,
    “Where” are the rest of us paying taxes of 80% of gross revenue (by which I assume, in the case of individuals, you mean gross income)? USA? Israel?
    I say, solve our tax problems by doing the following:
    . shrink govt by at least 50%
    . scrap the entire income based tax system for both corps and individuals
    . apply one flat consumption tax on every dime spent by whomever. No exceptions, no free ride for religious or charitable institutions, no social engineering by, for example, taxing the shit out of cigarettes and alcohol. Do away with all govt subsidies and foreign aid.
    Millions of bean-counters can then take up useful work like carpentry, farming and engineering.

  509. metuselah July 21, 2011 at 3:14 pm #

    Why is standing up for one’s People pathetic?
    It’s pathetic because you are a liar. What you are doing is denigrating others as “racially” inferior, and callously implying their extermination. You do this to justify racist thieving and exploitation of land and resources to expand colonial empires based on false eugenic propaganda/lies.
    You’re not standing up for whites. What you are doing is inventing myths and lies to justify holding on to past theft and future grabbing of other peoples’ possessions as your racist entitlement.

  510. Cash July 21, 2011 at 3:16 pm #

    Don’t worry, nobody knows who you really are anyway and besides you never know if someone comes up with a useful insight or good bit of advice.
    I know it’s no comfort but life craps on everyone sooner or later. If it isn’t one damn thing it’s something else. But I hope you find a way out of your predicament.

  511. soak July 21, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

    “Go ahead and insert your inanities below…”
    I’ll try. Inanities come easily for me.
    Atheism is a perfectly acceptable substitute for religion in my worldview. Have you read Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion or Daniel Dennett’s Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon? There are lots of good atheists and I like their work.
    Unlike you, I am equally at home with atheists and believers.
    I like human beings regardless of what kind of belief or non-belief they have swimming in around in their heads. Humans are cool!