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Suspended Civilization

     Question du jour: why is Jon Corzine still at large? In what fabulous Manhattan restaurants has he been enjoying plates of cockscombs and lobster with sauce hydromel and cinghiale ai frutti di bosco, while less well-connected citizens of this degenerate republic have to order their suppers from the dumpster in the WalMart parking lot where they have been living lately.
     Is there still an Attorney General in this country? Will somebody please follow Eric Holder down a hallway and see if he leaves a trail of sawdust on the floor. Or did congress just retract all the fraud statutes by stealth in the same way that the Federal Reserve handed out $7.7 trillion in bailouts back in 2008 (much more than the generally accepted figure of the $800 billion TARP) without anyone finding out until three years later when some Bloomberg reporters rooted the numbers out of a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) filing. And by the way, what is the US Federal Reserve doing handing out billions of dollars to the Royal Bank of Scotland? Was Scotland admitted to the Union by stealth, too? Or did Jamie Dimon just buy it as a birthday present for Barack Obama, who likes golf.
     This is what life in the USA is like nowadays: shit happens and shit un-happens, and you find out about it years later. Only a desperate and hopelessly degenerate nation would choose to live this way, in a law-optional society, in which money means everything, and yet nobody even knows what money is (or where it goes, and what it does when it goes there.)
     Jon Corzine has not revealed the destination of the loot (somewhere between $600 million and $2.5 billion, estimated) that vanished from the “segregated” accounts of his many clients at MF Global. The rumor is that it went to cover a rude margin call from Jamie Dimon’s bank, JP Morgan, after JC took some unfortunate positions in European sovereign bonds in a bad month. Beyond the question of why Mr. Corzine is not in jail (as a flight risk, just like DSK) is how come the Department of Justice has not so much as issued a statement saying that they were looking into the matter, so as to reassure both the victims and the financial markets that this is not a culture that just makes shit up as it goes along – i.e. that we have predictable rules and formal procedures for doing stuff.
     The clowns and villains who run America have accomplished something really epic: they have vanquished meaning. Nobody knows what anything means anymore. Anything goes now. All bets are off. It’s not reassuring. It leads to bad things happening like blood in the streets. When nothing means anything anymore, some people will actually strive, make an effort, to reestablish meaning in practical economic and political life, because civilized life is impossible without it. So, in those historic moments when civilization is suspended, people will work like hell to restore meaning. Sometimes though, like Germany in the 1930s, you discover that the suspension of civilization is itself intoxicating, and you ride with that for a while.
     Things are really flying apart now, and just in time for Santa Claus. The European bond rollovers are about to come in fast and furious during the season of Advent and nobody can make their interest payments. They will be skipped or postponed and promised for “next Tuesday,” and yet the bizarro universe of credit default swaps will not be triggered – is there a counter-party on God’s green earth who could afford a pay-out? Of course not. It was all a charade. So we’ll just learn that there actually is no “insurance” on all this paper. Yesterday’s “hair-cut” will be tomorrow’s “throat cut” as the middle innings of suspended civilization play out.
      There are heroes as-yet-sung-and-unsung in America, people who prefer reality over reality-TV, people with a taste for meaning in life, which often requires the recognition that some things are true and some not so true, and you’re better off with what’s true. What appears to be true is that the old order is finished and a new disposition of things is coming along. The Long Emergency will beat a path straight to the Great Re-set. Sign up for it. Roll up your sleeves. There is so much to do in this country. If you are young, especially, it’s all waiting for you.    _____________________________


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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

1,154 Responses to “Suspended Civilization”

  1. Puzzler December 4, 2011 at 6:42 pm #

    Thanks, my Monday morning treat came a day early.

  2. Michael Janzen December 4, 2011 at 6:55 pm #

    You forgot to mention that while the financial world is burning that Washington D.C is busy stirring the hornets nest in the Middle East, pissing off Russia & China, and apparently trying to get someone to shoot at us. Oh wait… Iran says they sis shoot at us and has one of our drone. Yikes.
    What do you think… world war by Christmas?

  3. Lloyd Alter December 4, 2011 at 7:08 pm #

    Civlization is spelled incorrectly in title.

  4. kulturcritic* December 4, 2011 at 8:29 pm #

    James – Civilization created history; and it will die a death with the end of history.
    http://kulturcritic.wordpress.com/posts/being-beside-oneself-sharing-and-shamanic-ecstasy/

  5. DeeJones December 4, 2011 at 8:45 pm #

    ” The clowns and villains who run America have accomplished something really epic: they have vanquished meaning. ”
    Jim, I think you pegged the whole scam here. And there is no law for the Rich.
    Lloyd: Perhaps it should be spelled
    “Snivilizaton”
    Personally, I’m still kinda surprised the can is still rolling THIS far down the road. But the road is getting rockier….
    Happy Munday
    🙂

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  6. Widespreadpanic7 December 4, 2011 at 8:57 pm #

    That last paragraph, Jim, eloquent & powerful, very eloquent & powerful.
    –WSP7

  7. rippedthunder December 4, 2011 at 9:02 pm #

    Did Iran shoot at us and capture a drone? I missed it. Sorry, please post a link so I can get the shotshells out of the barn! ;o)

  8. bearfoot December 4, 2011 at 9:37 pm #

    why not a jubilee. seems like a perfect solution?!

  9. xhalor December 4, 2011 at 9:40 pm #

    Mr. Kunstler,
    I cannot thank you enough for keeping the MF Global issue in the forefront. I believe it to be a pivotal moment. Keep the pressure on this grotesque abuse. Meanwhile, the inevitable whacking of the beehive that is Iran seems to be escalating.

  10. fiedag December 4, 2011 at 9:45 pm #

    Jim,
    Here in Australia, I welcome the earlier postings of the last two weeks. Nice not to have to wait until Tuesday morning. CU next Monday then hopefully!

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  11. anti soak December 4, 2011 at 9:58 pm #

    Miss Stewart?
    Leona? [Heck Ms Helmsly owned the Empire State Building and was Jewish].

  12. asoka. December 4, 2011 at 10:08 pm #

    Re: Iran
    If Iran sent military aircraft into our airspace, does anyone have any doubt it would be shot down?
    What was our military aircraft doing in their airspace?
    If you don’t want your stuff shot out of the air, don’t send it where it shouldn’t be in the first place.

  13. anti soak December 4, 2011 at 10:19 pm #

    P2C, I got thru 12 minutes of yr link……….
    Its a great lecture of Govt and its fake math, fuzzy numbers.
    ‘I’ve always known the US government was scamming the inflation numbers. But this video #16, shows that this was deliberate and orchestrated – and goes back into the 1960’s.
    Definitely worth 15 minutes and 42 seconds of anyone’s time.’
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPkTItOXuN0&blend=7&lr=1&ob=5
    “our nation may truly regret losing sight of history, risk, and common sense”
    -kevin phillips-

  14. Eleuthero December 4, 2011 at 10:29 pm #

    To BeanTownBill:
    YOU are an example of the decline of CFN and its widespread weakness of thinking. You EXTRAPOLATE that just because I came down on Qshtik, I must be an isolated misanthrope. And Qshtik criticizes people for BULLSHIT like his chronic knuckle-rapping of spelling errors. When I criticize a person, it’s on a much more substantive basis than that.
    So, kiss my rosy red arse, Bill. I thought you were a clearer thinker than that but I adjust my opinions according to how people reveal themselves. Just because I “complain”. Funny, you’re on a WEBSITE whose featured guy, JHK, is a superlative KVETCHER but I don’t hear you bitching about that because HE’S ACCURATE.
    I guess only “stars” can kvetch otherwise we’re “misanthropes”. God, can ANYBODY see the inconsistency and hypocrisy of their own thinking?
    E.

  15. Bailey December 4, 2011 at 10:35 pm #

    Is it a coincidence that the bill passed senate (by McCain) that labels America as part of the battlefield and allows the military to detain INDEFINITELY anyone including it’s own citizens? Listed as reasons for being a suspect include seven days or more of stored food, missing fingers, stored ammo of any amount in waterproof containers, the list goes on. Its like a bad movie!

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  16. xhalor December 4, 2011 at 10:44 pm #

    Who in their right mind is buying these Euroshit bonds? The same circle jerk of club members? We’re watching these megalomaniacs play Russian roulette. The gun has gone around the table once and no one got shot. Go ahead, punk. Your turn. Pick up the gun.

  17. asoka. December 4, 2011 at 11:00 pm #

    Bailey, it does not apply to citizens or lawful residents of the United States.
    S.1867
    National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 (Placed on Calendar Senate – PCS)
    Subtitle D–Detainee Matters
    SEC. 1031. AFFIRMATION OF AUTHORITY OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES TO DETAIN COVERED PERSONS PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE.
    SEC. 1032. REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY.
    (a) Custody Pending Disposition Under Law of War-
    (b) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens-
    (1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
    (2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.

  18. xhalor December 4, 2011 at 11:10 pm #

    Good thing we gots all them cheap digitile cameras lyin’ around. What? The FBI’s in all the satellite uplinks and telcos? Back to local news.

  19. xhalor December 4, 2011 at 11:18 pm #

    Some Thoughts On The Law
    Laws are great.
    Law enforcement hurts.
    (observed/unobserved enforcement)

  20. metuselah December 4, 2011 at 11:24 pm #

    God, can ANYBODY see the inconsistency and hypocrisy of their own thinking?
    ==
    LOL! I just love the irony, coming from the fat cat hypocrite who believes himself to be the “good German Nazi” while everyday he shows up to work at Goebbels’ propaganda offices so he can receive his allocated portion of theft stolen by the nazi imperialist machine. And let’s not forget the that delicious complaint of his about the riffraff he must deal with, those low intellects, who aren’t interested in being programmed as obedient workers for the fascist machine.

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  21. asoka. December 4, 2011 at 11:34 pm #

    JHK said: “Things are really flying apart now, and just in time for Santa Claus.”
    ==================
    Yes, E. said “we are in CRUNCH TIME” and things could collapse before Christmas.
    This whole economic house of cards in both Europe and the USA could come down day after tomorrow, as could World War III.
    Time is short. It is too late to prepare. We are so fucked … or not.

  22. xhalor December 4, 2011 at 11:36 pm #

    Damn. I got kind of a buzz off that. For a moment I was in Huxley’s novel.

  23. charliefoxtrot December 5, 2011 at 1:00 am #

    ah jeeze, looks like their gonna have to start MWIII to distract everyone a little longer from the moths in the ol’ wallet…fuck, i hope i have at least seven days to get my grubby little mitts on some food and some waterproof containers for the brass…nicknacks…soak, i think you missed the next section, which, according to the article i read in infoch.info (believe), seemed to provide just the language they need…suggestion- don t get too complacent, cuz after they come for your neighbors they ll come for you, and there won t be anyone left to help…much like the old saying…so you ll know, i believe new eggs can be eaten a few days to a week after fallout…don t eat cows, i m not sure about the milk- i ll look it up, and try to get back to y all with a report…

  24. BeantownBill December 5, 2011 at 1:35 am #

    E, I did strongly berate you, but at the time I was fed up with EVERYBODY’S complaints, and you happened to be the last complaining poster when I “snapped”. The reason I’m on this blog is not to listen to complaints – critical thinkers here know what our society’s problems are – but to learn about possible solutions. And I don’t see very many here, although I believe there ARE some.
    Regarding Q’s corrections, I have to take his side on this. Yes, there’s seemingly more important issues to discuss here, but that’s misleading. You, especially, ought to know that expressing oneself in writing reflects the state of one’s thinking process. I see two benefits to Q’s shtick: First, by constantly correcting posters’ grammar and spelling, he’s perhaps getting them to think a little more carefully about what they’re writing, which might improve their clarity of thought. Second, it points out by example the sorry mental state of our society.
    In any case, I do respect your writings and intellect, and I apologize for treating you badly. But, please! Use that intellect to offer up ways to deal with what may well be coming.

  25. Eleuthero December 5, 2011 at 1:45 am #

    Okay, Bill … slate is clean. I understand. However, Q. and you should both realize that many spelling errors are typing mistakes. I’d bet I could beat BOTH you and Q. in a spelling bee. I’d bet on it. The purpose of language is to COMMUNICATE and, in that regard, semantics and grammar are far, far more important than spelling. I stand by my accusation that Q.’s “brag” about his result in some contest was narcissistic and TOTALLY irrelevant to this blog. What CONTENT did it bring us? Should I write post if I win a chess tournament?? Sigh.
    Okay, all that being said, here’s a segue … John Hussman’s quote to end his weekly missive on this http://www.hussmanfunds.com website:
    “Nietzsche famously said “What does not kill me makes me stronger.” The corollary is “What constantly rescues me makes me weaker.” The world will only stop looking for bailouts when policy makers stop handing them out.”
    E.

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  26. charliefoxtrot December 5, 2011 at 2:09 am #

    bean, this might be off topic for the week, but here goes: one can distill muddy water in a pot with a piece of clear plastic fastened loosely enough that a pebble on the middle makes a cone- H2O will drip into a cup placed inside, under ther the inverted cone…and i looked it up; you don t need the minerals, those are added at the treatment plant for flavor- not health concerns…

  27. vnrwandkhb December 5, 2011 at 2:19 am #

    ?????:st????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????? ??? s?????????????????????st?????????????????????????????????????6?st?????????????????????????????????????????????????st??????????????????????????st??2?????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????st??????????????????????????? ??? s????????????????????

  28. Eleuthero December 5, 2011 at 2:22 am #

    JHK said:
    And by the way, what is the US Federal Reserve doing handing out billions of dollars to the Royal Bank of Scotland? Was Scotland admitted to the Union by stealth, too?
    ***************************************************************
    This is EXACTLY why I was so enraged last week. Moreover, Jim, I was also enraged that a blog allegedly soooo steeped in possessing the “inside dope” hardly reacted when I implied that the Fed just VIOLATED THE LAW by breaking their charter AND, once again, handing money to crooks while holding American citizens’ feet to the fire on everything from their credit card interest rate to their mortgage loans. Unless you’re living in the streets already, personal bankruptcy is hard to get.
    The Fed, effectively, anointed themselves as the HOUSE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE last week. The Fed proves that the other branches of government believe that the legislative branch need not be consulted … on ANYTHING. The rule of law has effectively already disappeared … it has been “Gitmo-ed”.
    E.

  29. Jimmy Drinkwater December 5, 2011 at 4:10 am #

    I walk around during the week wondering and puzzling over a story like MF Global and not because there are is no clear analysis but because there is almost none at all. Thanks for your part in not letting stories like this be swept under the rug.
    http;//alttransbikes.blogspot.com

  30. eljxanjgil December 5, 2011 at 4:10 am #

    ????????(???????????? ??????????????????????????????? ?????????????5 %??????????

    ?9??(nasdaqgs:ncty)?1???16.39%??7.05??;

    ???????(nasdaqgs????:ccgm)?1???9.40%??0.2188??;

    ??360(nyse:qihu)???????????18.33??????????

    ???????????????????????????????????????4 %????????? ?????:

    (nasdaqgs:cyou??). 66 %??25.38???????????????

    ??????????????????????????

    (???)

    ??:???????(??????)

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  31. charliefoxtrot December 5, 2011 at 4:42 am #

    i listened to gerald celente about the mother fucker took his gold, and for the first time i felt sorry for a millionaire…and somebody at info.info(sic) said maybe we ll get some real regulation now that the .01% are ripping off the .09%…

  32. charliefoxtrot December 5, 2011 at 4:50 am #

    @CF’dN: anybody giving odds on whether we get financial meltdown or MWIII first? i ll take my payoff in 9mm brass or pemmican…prefer full copper jacket or elk…

  33. Jimmy Drinkwater December 5, 2011 at 5:39 am #

    somebody at info.info(sic) said maybe we ll get some real regulation now that the .01% are ripping off the .09%…
    Isn’t that the way it works, the big sharks start eating little sharks, the bourgeois class cries foul?

  34. MoneyMouth December 5, 2011 at 6:36 am #

    34th!!!

  35. Jimmy Drinkwater December 5, 2011 at 6:45 am #

    Civlization is spelled incorrectly in title.

    Heavens, wait till the anal retentive blog spell checker gets wind of this, he’ll be jumping right out of his footed pajamas.

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  36. lbendet December 5, 2011 at 8:04 am #

    Thanks as always, JHK
    The MF Global and Corzine is a total outrage and yes, last week I mentioned that the money showed up in Morgan Stanley GB. Also the discussion of 600 million dollars became a discussion of over 1 billion.
    I’m sure the fuzzy math will change yet again. It’s like quicksilver. It’s what makes the world go round and yet it’s so illusive.
    On 60 Minutes they discussed our pathetic attempts to bring the law to these perpetrators of economic fraud in the mortgage debacle which as always say, was the little engine that could bring down a world economy.
    I believe that Holder is just a cardboard cut-out standing by his desk. Who knows where the 3-d guy is.
    It was clear from the beginning of this administration that Holder wasn’t going to look into any of the abuses that took place during the preceding 8 years, but as people have pointed out in the Chris Martinson videos, it was Clinton who instituted the fuzzy GDP numbers.
    Oh, and JHK didn’t you know, Geitner is back in Europe trying to convince them to do this thing our way, so as to keep the delusion that the USA has an economy.
    Oh, Pleeze just keep it going for the election cycle and we’ll tout the crappy employment numbers to the people.–And don’t forget, our banks don’t want to lose a red penny. But not to worry folks the American people will be happy to supply your banks with $Trillions.
    Reiterating what I said last week, we are baiting a new cold war with Russia and China, we are tempting fate with Iran and China makes our military hardware, cuz it cheaper when they make it. Yep pretty soon you’ll wake up to the realization that your government was outsourced.
    Does any of this make any sense? The marvel is how are we still standing?
    Yesterday I recommended that people check out another Chris Martenson video that basically bares out JHK’s assertion that this thing will hit an unsustainable wall and there is no solution. It’s called Unfixable:
    http://www.chrismartenson.com/

  37. ozone December 5, 2011 at 8:09 am #

    JHK sez:
    “The clowns and villains who run America have accomplished something really epic: they have vanquished meaning. Nobody knows what anything means anymore. Anything goes now. All bets are off. It’s not reassuring. It leads to bad things happening like blood in the streets. When nothing means anything anymore, some people will actually strive, make an effort, to reestablish meaning in practical economic and political life, because civilized life is impossible without it. So, in those historic moments when civilization is suspended, people will work like hell to restore meaning. Sometimes though, like Germany in the 1930s, you discover that the suspension of civilization is itself intoxicating, and you ride with that for a while.”
    I’ve been watching this phenomenon for quite some time, always asking myself, “Don’t Frank Luntz & Co. understand when they subvert concrete meanings they destroy any understanding in the process?”
    Well, now we know that it was a purposeful dismantling. Hiding (and promoting) the criminality was what it was all about. Perhaps they knew the Great Crumbling was beginning and needed cover for stealing the last of everything not nailed tightly down or already filched.
    Great and glaring point to heed, Mr. Kunstler, and I would also ask, “Why are Karl Rove and Frank Luntz still at large?” (Sure, they haven’t “broken any laws”, but the price of the evil they have done is incalculable.)
    Police State, Forward… HO-oooh!

  38. Neon Vincent December 5, 2011 at 8:27 am #

    James has been decrying the lack of punishment for the financial class who precipitated the current economic crisis for years now, but it’s gotten worse now that thousands of Occupy Movement participants, including members and leaders of the Coffee Party, have been arrested for protesting the impunity of the financial class during the past two months, while none of them have (Bernie Madoff doesn’t count). That disparity really highlights the issue.
    What’s new is James actually giving out advice on how to prepare ourselves for the new world. My wife and I been planting a garden for the past four years. During the same time, I’ve been showing “End of Suburbia” to my students as a wake up call. That movie is looking more prescient all the time.
    In contrast, I’ve been doing less gloom and doom over at Crazy Eddie’s Motie News lately, as I’m participating in National Blog Posting Month; the theme for December is Gift, so there are lots of gift ideas for geeks scattered among the political posts. One is both–the Krugmans’ suggestions for GOP presidential candidates. They didn’t come up with one for Herman Cain, which ended up being a good thing. Krugman wins the forecasting award again! So, long Mr. Plan 999 from Outer Space!
    http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/

  39. Neon Vincent December 5, 2011 at 8:30 am #

    Babelfish reveals that you’re a Rolex spammer and possibly even a bot. Welcome to Mos Eisley. We don’t serve your kind here.

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  40. ozone December 5, 2011 at 8:31 am #

    “The European bond rollovers are about to come in fast and furious during the season of Advent and nobody can make their interest payments. They will be skipped or postponed and promised for “next Tuesday,” and yet the bizarro universe of credit default swaps will not be triggered – is there a counter-party on God’s green earth who could afford a pay-out? Of course not. It was all a charade. So we’ll just learn that there actually is no “insurance” on all this paper.” -JHK
    Another good indicator of the defacto Griftocracy! The pretend “insurance” was there to free up more gambling money and pump the leveraging. Now that these fees-fer-nuthin’ scams are being revealed, the triggering of any payout will set precedent. That can’t be done because it will reveal the “value” of the “assets” the pretend insurance is supposed to cover. The whole confidence game will then come tumbling down and the vampires will be deprived of their feedings. Can’t have THAT, now can we?
    I believe all possible tools and weapons will be brought to bear in the oppression department to quell domestic dissent and resistance before the huge theft comes to light. This will allow the greatest thieves of all time to remain in their positions of power and enjoy the fruits of their “labors” at the same time. Not sure how long this can be kept in place, and the populace in line. Tippy times. No justice? No peace.

  41. Neon Vincent December 5, 2011 at 8:33 am #

    And you’re a Louis Vuitton spammer. Wow, are you ever in the wrong place to be promoting crass commercialism and mass consumption!

  42. Widespreadpanic7 December 5, 2011 at 8:36 am #

    MF Global? Who cares about that anymore? That was news from about 3 weeks ago. Last week the MARKET pulled a 180 (as we used to say) and halcyon days are here again. All that doom and gloom from before Thanksgiving — collapse of the Euro, Israel-Persian war, subsequent banking collapse in the USA, forget-about-it! Those problems have been solved … by a few crafty moves on the part of American and European central bankers. Recovery is at hand. We are, once again, in a “growth cycle”.
    And there’s more good news! Senator Schumer has a plan to ‘bring back real estate’: give visas to foreigners who would come here and buy distressed properties. And as JHK pointed out, when some Americans live in Walmart parking lots and scavenge for dinner in dumpsters, their President is off on yet another vacation, this time 17 days in Hawaii.
    –WSP7

  43. Leibowitz Society December 5, 2011 at 8:42 am #

    The temptation is to keep beating a dead horse, but we have to realize that this game is largely finished. Next on the menu is realizing that we are entering a period of time that will dwarf the European Dark Ages in brutality and scale and need to prepare now. Part of this is preserving our vital knowledge.
    Visit the Leibowitz Society at http://leibowitzsociety.blogspot.com for commentary and information on preparing ourselves for the coming dark age.

  44. mow December 5, 2011 at 8:44 am #

    Eat Mor Chikin

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  45. Liquid Lennny December 5, 2011 at 8:46 am #

    CFT, Since war will be the ultimate solution out of this mess, I’d say we’re all going to using the Charlie Foxtrot Delta call here shortly.
    9mm, .223, and seeds are all one should be buying each other as holiday presents…
    “Oh, the weather outside is frighting…
    let it snow, let it snow, let it snow…

  46. ozone December 5, 2011 at 8:57 am #

    WSP,
    Now thar be some deeelicious snark! ;o)
    (As an aside: Husqvarna of any XP model for chainsaw. Loads of tough-nut parts can be swapped out. By their price, one can tell these are not your disposable cheapies. I’m a bit disappointed in how quickly the bar wears, but I s’pose that’s from more use than I would like to become aware of. ;o) I hear a lot of good things about Stihls, but I’ve not looked into repairs and replacement on those particular beasts. I’ve still got my old mid-70’s Jonsered; later absorbed into Husqvarna; still runs strong.)

  47. Max December 5, 2011 at 9:02 am #

    Jim, your closing paragraph – in addition to being a clarion call to those numb to the consequences of current events – was a expression of clarity for those of us who’re challenged by the severity of circumstances now unfolding and incomprehension of our fellow countrymen to realize the impacts of those events. That realization will indeed occur but for some, belatedly. Well done and thank you, Sir.

  48. wardoc December 5, 2011 at 9:03 am #

    What is truly amazing is that as the financial/social/economic system of the former united states falls apart, the average person is either so preoccupied with day to day survival, or with football or dancing with the stars, to even notice the falling apart.
    A pundit, whose name I can’t recall, recently said that americans will not wake up until their belly touches their spine (i.e. they are starving). Surely, we as a mass, will wake up to the reality of our economic demise far before starvation sets in. But then again, football is powerful, as is dancing with the stars. What would we do without television; thank god it will always be with us:)
    Lock and load
    wardoc

  49. progress2conserve December 5, 2011 at 9:08 am #

    “Only a desperate and hopelessly degenerate nation would choose to live this way, in a law-optional society, in which money means everything,”
    -jhk-
    Indeed, Mr. K. Inflation is the only way out of our dilemma – monetary inflation, to make all these loans to our Government worth a whole lot less.
    And inflation in population numbers in the US – to make the whole Capitalist Game appear to keep going and going, until it no longer can, due to “peak everything.”
    People in the US and around the world will be left holding the bag on that one. And the fact that our “intelligent? masters” in TPTB will live the global collapse – right along with the rest of us – will be only slight comfort.
    Join NumbersUSA.
    Contact your House and Senate reps.
    The hour is late.

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  50. Widespreadpanic7 December 5, 2011 at 9:15 am #

    Ya, O, I understand Huskys and Stihls are for pros.
    Like I mentioned my Poulin is sufficient for around the yard work, that’s all. If you heat with wood, which I think you do, you need something better. Its good to hear you still have your saw from the 70’s. It means you take care of your stuff. I like old, still useful machinery.
    There have been many tree guys here of late from all over the US to help clean up after Oct. storm: I noticed they all had said Husquavarnas and Stihls. You cant beat Scandanavians when it comes to chainsaws (and goodlooking women)
    Are you ready for another winter up there, Pete?
    –WSP7

  51. arsltd December 5, 2011 at 9:16 am #

    I’ve been watching this phenomenon for quite some time, always asking myself, “Don’t Frank Luntz & Co. understand when they subvert concrete meanings they destroy any understanding in the process?”
    Suspended Ceiling

  52. Elrond Hubbard December 5, 2011 at 9:18 am #

    Anyone looking for ideas for adjusting to our new reality could do worse than watch this ten minute video, about a single mom who for $4,000 converted a cargo container into a home for herself and her daughter:
    http://videosift.com/video/Shipping-Container-Home-for-4K-single-mom-makes-it-happen
    This is the kind of resourcefulness we will need.

  53. Widespreadpanic7 December 5, 2011 at 9:27 am #

    And how about Sandusky, walking around free in Penn., giving interviews? Another indication how pathetic we have become?
    I think if it was one of my blood relatives he had molested I would have to invoke rule .357 (from the Marlin Book of Etiquette)
    –WSP7

  54. babystrangeloop December 5, 2011 at 9:27 am #

    US refinery shutdown, many to lose jobs for Christmas, see:
    Free $3 Gasoline?

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  55. Paraquat December 5, 2011 at 9:34 am #

    When Obama was first elected in November 2008, I had an expectation that we’d see some “hope and change.” Now three years later, I have no hope, and the only thing that’s changed are the faces. We used to joke that Obama was turning into “Bush-lite.” Today, that almost seems quaint. Any time now, I’m expecting Obama to start talking with a Texas drawl, buy a dude ranch, and spend his frequent month-long vacations “clearing brush.”
    Is this what happens to idealistic-sounding candidates when they finally get elected? Do they get bit by a vampire-squid and turn into Wall Street banksters?
    Sad.

  56. Smokyjoe December 5, 2011 at 9:34 am #

    JHK wrote:
    “people who prefer reality over reality-TV, people with a taste for meaning in life, which often requires the recognition that some things are true and some not so true”
    I know a few such people, but only a blessed few. The rest of my fellow citizens seem too obsessed by the tiny boxes they peck away at, often while walking or driving.
    At best there is a hazy anger at the morons in Congress, and there’s a feeling that we are expendable chumps to the wealthiest of the wealthy and the politicos they own.
    Instead of rioting or starting an actual Reform party, my fellow citizens peck on our smart phones, check Facebook, and hope that the good times will return.
    And guess what? They won’t. As soon as Europe implodes, it’s over and done. Stick a fork in it, or whatever metaphor you want.

  57. DeeJones December 5, 2011 at 9:37 am #

    “Miss Stewart?
    Leona? [Heck Ms Helmsly owned the Empire State Building and was Jewish].”
    HUH? 😕

  58. Smokyjoe December 5, 2011 at 9:38 am #

    Having some trouble with my Stihl saws, based on the ethanol content of the gas. Small engines suffer more than big ones, but the Eth will crystalize in the lines and filters, precipitating out in storage.
    Get some no-eth gasoline or empty your saw and run some “Moto-Mix” from Stihl in it before you store it, even for a short time.
    I run my saws every weekend, in winter. So be prepared (and practice with an axe and bow-saw, too, lads).

  59. ozone December 5, 2011 at 9:38 am #

    Ready for winter?
    Ummm, I don’t imagine I’m ever ready enough.
    Definitely enough wood; so we’ll stay warm.
    Still doing road work (damnit), but hopefully will have it sussed out before the deep snows.
    (Always been a fan of rule .357. Recidivism is nil after that rule has been invoked.)
    Stay loose and squirrely!

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  60. DeeJones December 5, 2011 at 9:40 am #

    “Did Iran shoot at us and capture a drone? I missed it. Sorry, please post a link so I can get the shotshells out of the barn! ;o)”
    Just look up Google Nooze, its all there.
    Along with the special forces inside Iran killing people & blowing things up in prep for the attack.
    But I think the plan is to first deal with Syria, then Iran next year sometime.
    :O

  61. agribiz December 5, 2011 at 9:54 am #

    James says:
    The clowns and villains who run America have accomplished something really epic: they have vanquished meaning. Nobody knows what anything means anymore. Anything goes now. All bets are off. It’s not reassuring. It leads to bad things happening……
    http://macrobusiness.com.au/2011/05/overruled/

  62. 3rd Generation December 5, 2011 at 10:00 am #

    Your BEST writing this year.
    Anger becomes you. And Fuck America, especially politicians who play Golf while the citizes suffer.
    America – Doomed Land of hopeless innumerate imbeciles worried about shit that doesn’t matter (sports, dancing, sluts – Hey Lindsay LOHANS BAAACK..)that they cannot control while the house, family and future goes AWOL.
    Time to thin the herd. Blood in US Streets next up. OWS will sem like Romper Room and Miss Nancy will be wearing kevlar riot gear and assaulting and maybe even killing innocent US civilians.
    Maybe the Goldman Gang can come up with a derivative on human scalps and fresh warm blood.
    Keep up the angry pissed-off rants.
    Poetry.

  63. newworld December 5, 2011 at 10:10 am #

    I think all on this site who both read and post can agree on the last paragraph. Well said.
    Even us white devil cracker nazi skinhead oppressors of all the hapless peaceful colored folk are tired of the “Old System”, let it die.

  64. The Mook December 5, 2011 at 10:15 am #

    I have my old Jonsered too. But last year I bought a 346 XP and that sucker rips it up and only weighs about 8 lbs. compared to the 12 pound beast. Either way, it sure beats playing on the internet. Except on Monday mornings at work of course.

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  65. FrogCounter December 5, 2011 at 10:27 am #

    Maybe Holder is preoccupied with the “Fast and Furious” (gunwalker) scandal. A “bit of a cock-up on the gun-tracking front” as Reginal Perrin might say.

  66. The Mook December 5, 2011 at 10:28 am #

    I believe Sunoco premium is ethanol free. The ethanol also burns hotter in the small engines, and inflicts additional financial hardship on us commoners. Give Sta-Bil for the holidays.

  67. Solar Guy December 5, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afHLXhON-g0
    http://www.thrivemovement.com/
    I seldom post links, but I watched this in full yesterday. I don’t know.
    So hard to keep the nose to the solar grindstone and sell sell sell, install install install anymore with such rapid thoughts of doom and gloom on the very near horizon. The family and few friends I speak with think I’m nuts for wanting a few month food supply. The 99% where I live here don’t seem to subscribe to the coming issues, just facebook, beers and making fake money…
    When you go to the bank and ask for a loan of say $50,000 … they just type 50,000.00 into a computer screen. That is where money comes from.
    CHEERS CLUSTERFUCKERS

  68. steve December 5, 2011 at 10:40 am #

    Indeed, one of the more thoughtful and hopeful of these essays. I agree that we are well into a new dispensation and young people should look forward to it with anticipation. I’m not sure they are being adequately prepared for it, but there will be enough of them to take on the leadership that will be necessary. And, I don’t believe that the answers are in privatizing life in some kind of survivalist mode. New leadership will follow the same paths as always – cooperating in groups that compete for power and, in the process, re-forming institutions for the new exigencies of meaning and need. These new institutions may follow the tenets of classical liberalism – hopefully – or perhaps the neo-liberalism (totalitarianism) of recent times. I wish I could live long enough to see some emerging results, but alas . . . .

  69. messianicdruid December 5, 2011 at 11:01 am #

    “The Fed proves that the other branches of government believe that the legislative branch need not be consulted … on ANYTHING.”
    Probably just an oversight, but, The Federal Reserve is NOT a “branch” of the Federal Government and they have NO reserves.

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  70. wastelandmechanic December 5, 2011 at 11:19 am #

    Nationalist Propaganda Radio has this buried on their “back page”. It is an AP story titled “House Panel Votes To Subpoena Corzine On MF Global”.
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=143046295
    I guess NPR’s “Planet Money” couldn’t be bothered with it. They have more important things to cover.
    http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/12/05/142634542/why-burn-doctors-hate-instant-soup
    Typical example of why the role of the news media in our decline should never be underestimated.

  71. messianicdruid December 5, 2011 at 11:27 am #

    “Any time now, I’m expecting Obama to start talking with a Texas drawl, buy a dude ranch, and spend his frequent month-long vacations “clearing brush.”
    Has he got his 200,000 acre retreat in Uraguay yet?

  72. zerotsm December 5, 2011 at 11:28 am #

    So Iran shot down and captured one of our drones. Big deal. The control functions are encrypted. So Iran might be able to repair and reverse engineer the drone that they captured and fly it, but the encryption key on the rest of our fleet will be changed so there is no way that Iran would be able to control the rest of the fleet.
    The best they could hope for would be to jam the control systems and make the drones crash. Even that would be difficult, since spread spectrum is used, which is more immune to interference than conventional radio modulation techniques.

  73. lsjogren December 5, 2011 at 11:29 am #

    “Who in their right mind is buying these Euroshit bonds?”
    That’s why Europe’s in trouble, nobody is buying those junk bonds.
    The garbage that the US Treasury issues is still popular because it’s the “least rancid half-eaten big mac in the dumpster”. Even when nobody wants it anymore, the Federal Reserve will just buy up the toxic junk.
    In Europe, on the other hand, Angela Merkel refuses to let the European Central Bank be the “toxic waste buyer of last resort”.

  74. angstromatic December 5, 2011 at 11:46 am #

    Dear Jim, please get off Jon’s back. He didn’t do anything ‘wrong’; just made some bad financial decisions. So what if he used depositor’s money to buy junk. So what if he didn’t get his Board’s approval to buy junk. He’s Jon Corzine, after all. He will suffer some adverse consequences however; but only if he misappropriated money from rich people, like his friend Bernie Madoff. If the money came from middle class folks, Jon has nothing to worry about.

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  75. ABSALOM December 5, 2011 at 11:48 am #

    Thanks to Ozone, Eleuthero, and a couple others for recommending different material to help improve my grasp on all these issues. The clips I’ve watched from the likes of Steve Keen, Chris Martenson, and a few other articles deliver a quality of rationality absent hyperbole which I really appreciate. I see things a lot more clearly, even radically differently than I did just two or three years ago. It’s amazing how quickly one’s worldview can change. I have to admit the level of embarrassment I’ve felt for only now becoming aware of this shit. But I recognize too that the embarrassment runs a distant second to the rage that’s building within.
    This Spring should be interesting.

  76. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 11:50 am #

    Probably just an oversight, but, it’s Paraguay where the Bush’s purchased land over one of the world’s largest fresh water aquifers.
    Oh, and Paraguay has no extradition treaty. Bush fucked the country good… and he has a Plan B for TLE.

  77. backbeat December 5, 2011 at 11:52 am #

    Excellent post James. I did wonder why MF Global was not getting much flak for its “temporarily mislaid” funds. But I was surprised to read that the munificence of the Fed had extended to my own dear mortgage provider, the Royal Bank of Scotland. Thanks to all you US readers for this. A very small portion of Edinburgh real estate now has your name on it!

  78. spencerpsn December 5, 2011 at 11:52 am #

    Back in ’84 a great poet was inspired to write the following words following the bold decision by the Philadelphia Police Department to drop an actual bomb from a helicopter on some citizens of the United States.
    “The Roof, The Roof, The Roof is on fire. We don’t need no water let the motherfucker burn. Burn motherfucker; burn”
    I increasingly find myself reflecting on these profound words as I observe the state of our Western societies and consider their futures. “Burn motherfucker, Burn!” indeed.

  79. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 12:14 pm #

    “Bush fucked the country good… and he has a Plan B for TLE.”
    ==================
    Asoka, Bush didn’t do it alone. He needed millions of people to vote for him … twice. (including people on this very CFN blog).
    And now Obama is continuing in Bush’s footsteps and I believe you voted for Obama, right Asoka?
    So, now it is time to stop voting for tweedledum or tweedledee, to stop voting for red or blue.
    Now is the time to vote Green, because both of the major parties are corporate-owned.
    http://www.jillstein.org/
    Jill Stein for President, 2012

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  80. mjcrites December 5, 2011 at 12:17 pm #

    By insisting that baby boomers ( Corzine, Holder, and Dimon are all boomers) be held accountable for their actions and follow the rules, Jim’s committed the ultimate heresy this morning,

  81. Dirk December 5, 2011 at 12:30 pm #

    When America realizes that no matter what they have done or been told that their comfy retirements are indeed gone; all that ‘wealth’ they thought they had accumulated never really existed, then OWS will become OA. Thank God we will have WWIII to distract us and save the economy. Phew!
    “The problem with Democracy is that it attracts too many people with too much time on their hands”
    -Will Rogers

  82. rippedthunder December 5, 2011 at 12:32 pm #

    Howdy Smokey Joe, I usually go to the local small airport and buy Aviation gasoline, Way better than the crap at the local service station. There’s a term you don’t hear much anymore. “Service Station” haha. It is a little expensive but I don’t really burn much in the small engines and MC, I believe it is 103 octane, no ethanol, and it still has lead in it.My old stuff still needs leaded gas. And I have a bunch of old stuff!

  83. greyghost05 December 5, 2011 at 12:32 pm #

    CF you can also use bleach. It has to be plain and not scented. Clorox used to put a chart for this kind of use on their gallon bottles. It’s not too much either. About a drop per gallon. Swimming pool chem’s might also work. Especially for large amounts.
    Time to stock up on ammo while it’s affordable. If it’s on sale buy it whether you need the caliber or not. Down the road it will be great for barter.
    And I was just wondering if you are related to SierraFoxtrot ?
    Stay Frosty

  84. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 12:37 pm #

    Something no one has said:
    You could put Corzine, Dimon, and their friends in prison with 100 year sentences … and it won’t do a damn thing about the toxic paper that is choking the world economy. The damage has been done.
    Nor would sending some CEOs to prison restore corporate morality. The duty of a CEO is to increase profits … by any means necessary. If some laws have to be broken, then laws will be broken. If money has to be stolen, then money will be stolen.
    If people have to be enslaved, they will be enslaved. If countries need to be bombed and invaded, if native peoples need to be eliminated through systematic genocide, if the environment needs to be destroyed, etc. … whatever is necessary to make a profit.
    If some CEOs go to prison, do you think that will stop the next CEOs in carrying out the profit imperative?
    The CEOs will do what they have to do, or they will lose their jobs. It is the way capitalism has worked for hundreds of years now.
    There is a political party that is not corporate-owned you can vote for: the Green Party.
    http://www.jillstein.org
    Jill Stein for President 2012

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  85. charliefoxtrot December 5, 2011 at 12:37 pm #

    wait just a damn minute!!! how did you get a loan for $50,000??!! i couldn t get one for $500 if i tried! guess i shoulda asked for $5,000,000- that would sweeten the default points for the credit (broke)rs… sheesh…

  86. ccm989 December 5, 2011 at 12:40 pm #

    Jon Corzine is too rich to go to jail. So far, he’s returned half the “missing” money. Where the other half is – doesn’t matter – he could withdraw the amount from his own personal accounts and cover the loss. He will never see a moment of jail time. Neither did Angelo Mozillo, who’s criminal activities were so blatant, he should be sitting right next to Bernie Madoff in jail but isn’t. He paid a fine (about 1/5 of his total annual compensation according to 60 Minutes) and didn’t even have to admit guilt. Mozillo paid a minor fine and probably has a written agreement that he can’t be investigated again. None of these Wall Street banksters have gone to jail and never will. Epidemic systematic worldwide financial corruption (not just here in the US or in Europe but everywhere). Probably less than a 100 guys control the world financial system, all of them 100% corrupt and none of them will be punished for it. And they know it too. They’ve bought off all the right people, the people who were supposed to protect us and now those same people are living in Mega-Mansions, justifying their own corruption with “Why not, everybody else does it.”
    The only good news is Herman Cain can now Blame Himself for the crashing and burning of his campaign. Apparently the Koch Brothers didn’t vet him at all before they sank hundreds of millions in that clueless joker. Maybe the Koch Brothers aren’t so very smart after all. Or maybe all of them, the Koch Brothers, the Wall Street Banksters, and the pedophile sports coaches who thought they were ABOVE THE LAW will have their comeuppance. But it won’t be from the GOP, the Democrats or the Attorney Generals (federal or state). It will be from us. If things get bad enough, it will happen and paper cash and gold bullion will be worthless. Remember what happened to the Nazi and their sympathizers after the war was over.

  87. greyghost05 December 5, 2011 at 12:42 pm #

    I’ll take Melt Down….W W 3 might be too hard to control. The 1% don’t want to fry their assets.
    I think the WW3 shit is just wag the dog. Just to get your eye off the ball as they pull yet another financial swindle.

  88. greyghost05 December 5, 2011 at 12:44 pm #

    Maybe there is some cred to Ron Paul’s call to AUDIT THE FED ?

  89. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 12:51 pm #

    ccm989 said: “…that clueless joker.”
    ==============
    Krugman seems to be channeling JHK, or JHK is channeling Krugman. Speaking of clueless jokers:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/05/opinion/send-in-the-clueless.html?_r=1&hp
    Send in the Clueless

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  90. sevenmmm December 5, 2011 at 12:52 pm #

    I would gladly trade my age for the chance to take a different path. I would gladly have walked a different path should I have known the outcome. But still, the future holds the promise of high satisfaction for the few who are willing to work hard at what is sustainable.

  91. greyghost05 December 5, 2011 at 1:01 pm #

    I just recieved an email from a buddy of mine with a similar home in it. This one however was a double shiooing container model. It looked really cool hwen finished. I guess if your Township’s building ordinances allow it then why not. Brem up around the north side and build a green house on the south and it will be toasty in the winter.

  92. greyghost05 December 5, 2011 at 1:09 pm #

    If you live in farm country you can find leaded Tractor Gas available. At least out here in Michigan.

  93. wagelaborer December 5, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    That was me, CFT! Last week, I pointed out that now that the .01% are ripping off the .09%, they’ll probably crack down, like they did with Bernie Madoff.
    But the underlying problems will continue.

  94. JulettaofOhio December 5, 2011 at 1:13 pm #

    What do you want to bet that the Corzine scandal will be completely forgotten within three weeks? Something else will displace it, as happened with Eric Holder’s “Fast and Furious”, a truly repre-hensible act.
    Obama reminds me of a bored teen-ager, a natural OWSer, who has no interest in grown up matters and constantly looks for vivid entertainment to distract him from unpleasant reality. Fortunately he has enough perks from Mama and Daddy Taxpayer to muddle through, with the added bonus of keeping MegaButt off his ass.
    No one has ever been able to explain why Bush Two was so protective of Mexico. The explosion of “immigrants” began with him and he largely covered for them. Why? I don’t believe the Bush family was part of the cartels, but why cover for and protect such a violent invasion? I kind of like George W., unlike most of the posters here, but I can’t forgive him for the Patriot Act, which in the hands of Napolitano, has become a club to vanquish the citizenry.
    Obama has no interest in protecting or ultimately saving the United States. Kind of like asking your teenage son to take out the trash. He drifts from entertainment to entertainment, stopping only to accept another ration of unearned praise. If that praise isn’t forthcoming, beware the huge snit fit which will follow, plus multiple charges of racism.
    I am really concerned about our future and CFN seems to have the clearest explanations. I would like a reason for Bush’s protection of Mexico and I would really like an idea of when you think Obama might grow up sufficiently to do something useful. This assumes he actually has the vaunted, but unproven, intellect with which he is credited.

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  95. agribiz December 5, 2011 at 1:15 pm #

    I fully understand what you are saying and do expect that under new management “the boomers” are going to be pushed towards the soylent green terminal much more so than “the greaters” are. The problem actually can be laid at the feet of those who are in the notch between the the boomers and their parents. Or, possibly, their big brothers and sisters….the high school graduating class of 1956 that went on to fear neither selective service nor deflation of their investments. And which also got a pretty good foothold before the ravages of a narrowly focused, generalization soaked botique social liberalism started to cost them much. For cheap, on the tails of genuine social progressivsm, having been hammered out by a generation that was essentially spent in doing so. Willing to pass the work along, naively thinking that the next shift that came on was actually going to be interested in what had made it work.
    It might not be too bad an idea if before the Xers and millenials and now the newly labeled “losters” and whatever of the teen-30 notch get to thinkin’ and come to some agreement that the boomers be simply rounded up for the glue factory that among that useless mass there just might remain those who are the only souls left who watched it all transpire. First, under the lingering shadows that were “The War” and the depression viewed with the eyes of a child, and then getting to see something ACTUALLY WORK. And then waerily slithering off, with the soul of skeptics turned agreeable if not somewhat mystified by seeing it all start all over again, to become slaves to debt in order to maintain a nominal reflection in sustinance of those who preceeded them immediately.
    The brain cells that are holding the data that can be useful to the new doers are inside the weary skulls of those who never quite gave up on core progressivism. Never quite were able to square up Bill Clinton and his perfecting of Reagonomics with the genuine “liberalism” that they had seen actually stop a war or improve civil society.
    You progressive boomer haters need to take a breath and form a search committee and go out and find some of those unicorns. And take a little closer look at the birthdates of those who you view as your orpessors. They are more sub-boomer than you presume. It will help the spokespeople of your generation from embarassing yourselves and making you so vulnerable to disingenious yet somehow effectual criticsm from the spawn of those ’56ers, the Reagan babies. The row upon row of talking heads….they aren’t boomers. We’re used up for that sort of thing. None of us write anymore.
    “Stuff” that when we hear it become not so much appaled at what has been said or insinuated, but rather, aghast at your inability to intelligently and effectively respond.

  96. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 1:16 pm #

    What good would an audit do?
    Suppose an audit uncovers some theft … that won’t do a damn bit of good if no one will enforce laws against fraud and theft.
    Ron Paul is a card-carrying member of the Republican Party, a life-long politician receiving government-paid health care, but Ron Paul voted against the Childrens’ Health Insurance bill (Jan. 23, 2008, HR 3963) and voted against the GI Bill (May 15, 2008, HR 2642) and voted against the Medicare bill (June 24, 2008, HR 6331).
    Ron Paul voted yes for Ron Paul’s government health care plan, but he voted no for children and voted no for veterans and voted no for senior citizens.

  97. k-dog December 5, 2011 at 1:19 pm #

    Question du jour: why is Jon Corzine still at large?

    Jon Stevens Corzine is a former CEO of Goldman Sachs and MF Global who made $400 million during the 1999 initial public offering of Goldman Sacks. He served as the 54th Governor of New Jersey from 2006 to 2010 and as a US Senator from New Jersey before that.
    Why is Jon Corzine still at large? Hell, this guy is so well connected he could have sex with little boys and get away with it and your asking why? Why are you asking why?
    The original Bank of Scotland, was suspected of having Jacobite sympathies. Consequently the Royal Bank of Scotland with strong Hanoverian and Whig ties was chartered in 1727. Archibald Campbell, Lord Ilay was its first governor.
    The RBS obviously got bailed out for political reasons. Details of which if made public would no doubt cause the fall of western civilization. We all need to be movin on here.
    Rhetorical questions aside this weeks piece is great.
    ‘Rise like Lions after slumber
    In unvanquishable number –
    Shake your chains to earth like dew
    Which in sleep had fallen on you –
    Ye are many – they are few.’
    Shelley – The Mask of Anarchy
    k-dog for President.

  98. The Mook December 5, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    I will check that out. Thanks. Most of the farmland around here (NW PA.) however, is Amish owned. Them thar mules don’t like the taste of that thar Ethanol.

  99. wagelaborer December 5, 2011 at 1:30 pm #

    Yay, asoka! No more tweedledum or tweedledee.
    Vote Jill Stein!
    http://www.jillstein.org/

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  100. wagelaborer December 5, 2011 at 1:33 pm #

    Meanwhile, in South Africa, Democracy Now is covering the climate change talks that the US, once again, is obstructing.
    While LA gets 100mph Santa Ana winds, in December!
    And the northeast tries to dry out, while Texas burns.
    We live in Dumbfuckistan.

  101. bailey December 5, 2011 at 1:35 pm #

    For those that understand history; Eurasia isn’t emerging, it’s re-emerging.
    Gore Vidal talked about the beginning of our debter nation in 86 and how it would then go down from there….as an American its just weird watching it happen so fast…
    Eurasia is simply re-emerging…and, whomever runs Eurasia tends to run the world….

  102. wagelaborer December 5, 2011 at 1:36 pm #

    They did audit the Fed. That’s how they found out about the $8 trillion bailout.

  103. wagelaborer December 5, 2011 at 1:42 pm #

    And Michael Hudson has pointed out multiple times since the audit that the fact that the ruling class can conjure up $8 trillion for the bankers, proves that all the talk about cutting Social Security and Medicare and tightening our belts to live without our means…..is bullshit.
    They could just as easily conjure up enough money to provide for the needs of American citizens as they could for the bankers.
    So all the generation bashing going on here is ridiculous, not just because Social Security is not a part of the Federal budget, since it is funded separately, but because money is conjured, not printed or mined, and can be used for good, as well as evil.

  104. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 1:42 pm #

    Solar Guy, Illegitimi non carborundum! (Don’t let the bastards grind you down.)
    I look forward to your posts every week. You are one of the few optimistic voices on CFN. And you are doing the Lord’s work!
    So, keep on installing those solar panels. Every little bit of energy we can capture from the sun means that much less we need to buy from dirty-coal companies (there is no “clean coal”) or from Middle Eastern dictators.
    KEEP DOING GOOD. SMILE. AND PUSH ON.

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  105. metuselah December 5, 2011 at 1:43 pm #

    But I recognize too that the embarrassment runs a distant second to the rage that’s building within.
    ==
    I’ve been raging against the willfully ignorant fascists and fascist machine for over two years here. There were few here who understood my anger and what I was talking about. Wage was one of the first. Now this understanding is almost universal on CFN. There are still a few holdouts, like Q and PC, but on the whole most recognize that with a little research EVERYTHING that I’ve said can be easily verified.

  106. metuselah December 5, 2011 at 1:48 pm #

    Here here!
    The subsidy to the fascist imperialist predators is unlimited and unending.
    US = Imperialist Fascist Vatican/Roman Reich

  107. Anne December 5, 2011 at 1:50 pm #

    I’m always bemused by how optimistic you are, Jim. I’ve rolled up my sleeves and we’ve been working on a sustainable lifestyle for several years, but I’d never in my wildest dreams call this an opportunity for anything except a slightly less long shot on survival. The vicious and the lucky will survive the coming collapse. I’m not the vicious type and while I’ve been damned lucky in many respects, I’m a skeptic as far as the future goes.
    I’ve seen what happens in other countries when there’s a meltdown, and it ain’t pretty. What’s ahead will eclipse other modern collapses by orders of magnitude.
    But what the heck. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

  108. Hamster December 5, 2011 at 1:53 pm #

    Pardon me, but what is that stuff at the fancy restaurants that Jon Corazine is hypothetically eating?
    Corn pone and cabbage soup I understand, and in fact I chuckled at Jim’s recent reference to it. I had something along those lines for lunch recently, but I’m stumped now by the food terminology. Actually both the corn and the cabbage were out of the garden, and the simple chow of handmade tortillas and vegetable soup with fresh herbs was of a quality that would demand big bucks at cutsey artisanal restaurants.

  109. messianicdruid December 5, 2011 at 1:53 pm #

    “…and he has a Plan B for TLE.”
    Thought it might be… but what of O’s plan?

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  110. charliefoxtrot December 5, 2011 at 1:58 pm #

    in the early 90’s, i met an ex-cia op (trust the source) who said bush the first was bringing tons of coke in through his offshore oil rigs because the workers don t have to go through customs…and almost all of the rank and file were mexican…he still owns the rigs as far as i can tell…

  111. Lara's Dad December 5, 2011 at 2:00 pm #

    Excellent video, thanks for the link.

  112. k-dog December 5, 2011 at 2:00 pm #

    Is there still an Attorney General in this country? Will somebody please follow Eric Holder down a hallway and see if he leaves a trail of sawdust on the floor.

    To find out that Eric Holder is nothing more than a sawdust filled bag of rags posing as a scarecrow to frighten crows of bad behavior away would be an improvement.
    I think somebody should stand next to him and see if they can here any air whistling into his ears to try and fill the vacuum in between.
    At least sawdust is something of substance.

  113. charliefoxtrot December 5, 2011 at 2:07 pm #

    oh yeah- sorry, i ve discovered info recently, and my brain is more filled than usual with all of the extremely obscene shenanigans out there…btw, i ve been reading your archives; right on! like your style, keep it up- it s nice to ‘hear’ a resonant voice in the clamor…

  114. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 2:08 pm #

    He grew up in Hawaii didn’t he?
    Not a bad place to return to.

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  115. charliefoxtrot December 5, 2011 at 2:12 pm #

    man, that s a great tip about the ammo- little late; i only just turned down several hundred rounds of .357 s and .38 s cuz i roll with the nines and didn t think i would need em…will keep the idea in front; thanks re sierra: nope

  116. wagelaborer December 5, 2011 at 2:20 pm #

    Bernie Sanders also supported the audit and posted some of the results.
    http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3

  117. ront December 5, 2011 at 2:21 pm #

    “There are heroes as-yet-sung-and-unsung in America, people who prefer reality over reality-TV, people with a taste for meaning in life, which often requires the recognition that some things are true and some not so true, and you’re better off with what’s true. What appears to be true is that the old order is finished and a new disposition of things is coming along. The Long Emergency will beat a path straight to the Great Re-set. Sign up for it. Roll up your sleeves. There is so much to do in this country. If you are young, especially, it’s all waiting for you.”
    This is terrific, James. I am young at heart. I hope that counts, cause I’m in!
    As regards: “…Only a desperate and hopelessly degenerate nation would choose to live this way, in a law-optional society, in which money means everything, and yet nobody even knows what money is (or where it goes, and what it does when it goes there.)”
    Before leaving New York on December 5th, [1931 (80 years ago today)] [Meher] Baba wished to be driven around Wall Street, New York’s financial district. It was a Saturday and the streets were virtually deserted. In the car, Jean Adriel was thinking to herself: “How ephemeral and unreal is this money madness!”
    The next moment, pointing to the skyscrapers, Baba smiled at her and gestured, “It is all a bubble, so easy to prick!”
    A friend of mine says “emerge and see.” And keep in mind that the Lord works in mysterious ways.

  118. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 2:23 pm #

    What is your attachement to the Bush’s? They are one of the old Protestant Families, Skull and Bonesmen both junior and senior. These people went Global generations ago and are traitors.
    The Plan is to unite Canada, America, and Mexico into a common economy a la the European Union. Letting in millions of illegals is part of erasing the border. Later on South America and North America will be joined – as will Europe and Africa. The third economic zone is Asia. Australia is an Asian nation. To make this a reality, they are flooding the place with Chinese and Arabs. The final stage will be the Union of the Three Zones into a World Goverment. The fiction of individual nations will be maintained until this time and perhaps even after.

  119. Gus44 December 5, 2011 at 2:24 pm #

    What? Don’t you know that American Exceptionalism means we can do whatever the fuck we want to do with impunity?

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  120. charliefoxtrot December 5, 2011 at 2:26 pm #

    even with the sc decision about wal-mart; couldn t We The People initiate a class-action lawsuit against eric holder? surely it has been established beyond the burden of proof that all of us have been harmed in the same, substantial fashion by his negligence in preferring charges against all of the investment thieves?!

  121. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 2:27 pm #

    Are you armed yet, Ront? Remember no can slay or be slain in Reality. It will be just part of the Play as written by the Playwrite. We must play our parts after all. Pacifists try to rewrite the Play, but they cannot. They play a minor role as per their understanding.
    Remember Baba – and fight.

  122. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 2:28 pm #

    ront, have you been to the Bhopal Centre in India?

  123. charliefoxtrot December 5, 2011 at 2:29 pm #

    fuck! ok, Q-check: trade you my ‘thieves’ for metuseleh s ‘here here’…

  124. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 2:31 pm #

    Does Wage support your ideas about Israel having the right to take over the whole West Bank? You lost the Communists when you did that, preppy. Your beanies are seriously askew. Better fix your propellers and get ready to lift off out of there.

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  125. wagelaborer December 5, 2011 at 2:34 pm #

    $8 trillion — $16 trillion…. pretty soon you’re talking real money!

  126. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 2:36 pm #

    Hatred of the Church is the oldest and deepest American Prejudice. The early Americans were Calvinists who imagined themselves as the Chosen People. Crypto Jews so to speak. You are as wrong as wrong can be.
    But this very imagining has kept some of them pure. The traditional Calvinists don’t buy into the Christian Zionism and Jews as the Chosen People at all. God bless them.

  127. turkle December 5, 2011 at 2:41 pm #

    Every week you make these sarcastic comments. Are you even paying attention to world news these days? The Euro is going down in flames right now. Unless the ECB does something drastic like open a window to buy an unlimited amount of bonds from troubled countries, it could very well break apart. The Economist has been running stories every week for months now about how the European GDP is shrinking and the banks there are choked with junk government bonds, which has the potential to bring down the entire banking system there (really), not to mention send the entire world into another Great Depression.
    Trillions of dollars have been pumped into the world banking system over the last 3-4 years by the Fed and other central banks. And yet still the whole system seems to teeter on the edge, slouching from one catastrophe to another. This is like the patient on the operating table whose heart goes into defib and is being shocked with electricity to get them going again.
    And somehow you think the world economic system is robust and will “carry on” no matter what. Get real. We are teetering on the brink of some pretty awful events.
    Do these epic problems mean that civilization will suddenly collapse and we will all have our own reenactment of The Road? No, but sticking your head in the sand like Chicken Little does not mean you are somehow wiser or more informed than people who actually know what’s going on right now.
    In other words, get a clue, asoka! 🙂
    Anyways, Happy Monday to ya.

  128. turkle December 5, 2011 at 2:42 pm #

    The world financial system is like some kind of Never Never Land. Do you guys know what QE entails? The Federal Reserve deposits trillions in the reserve accounts of its member banks. In other words, free money for nothing for the Too Big to Fail banks.
    Neat huh?

  129. turkle December 5, 2011 at 2:44 pm #

    All religion is bunk.

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  130. mika. December 5, 2011 at 2:44 pm #

    Loser, if you’re going to plagiarize every sentence you write, the least you can do is give them people some credit.

  131. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 2:45 pm #

    Yeah he’ll do alright. It’s no place for Whites: lots of discrimination and assults. We should cede Hawaii to Japan. They have the moral courage to keep the Polynesian Thugs in line and protect White Lives and Property.

  132. mika. December 5, 2011 at 2:48 pm #

    Jews as the Chosen People
    ==
    And? Are you jealous?
    You want to be God’s chosen people, is that it?

  133. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 2:49 pm #

    You are right on the crux of it – dead on center. As Solzhenitsyn said, hatred of God is the very essence of Communism – more fundamental than all their economic or political pretensions.

  134. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 2:49 pm #

    We already are.

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  135. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 2:52 pm #

    Pacifists try to rewrite the Play, but they cannot.
    ==============
    Except when they can.
    1980–1989 – The Solidarity movement
    1987–1989 – The Singing Revolution – Baltic states (Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia)
    1989 – The Peaceful Revolution in the German Democratic Republic leading to the fall of the Berlin Wall
    1989 – The Velvet Revolution – the bloodless revolution in Czechoslovakia
    1989 – The bloodless revolution in Bulgaria that resulted in the downfall of the communist government.
    1974 – The Carnation Revolution in Portugal.
    1979 – The Iranian Revolution in Iran.
    1986 – The People Power (Yellow) Revolution in the Philippines
    2000 – The Bulldozer Revolution, which led to the overthrow of Slobodan Miloševi?. These demonstrations are considered by many to be the first example of the peaceful revolutions that followed in Georgia and Ukraine
    2003 – The Rose Revolution in Georgia
    2004 – The Orange Revolution in Ukraine
    2005 – The Cedar Revolution in Lebanon
    2011 – Arab Spring (Tunisia and Egypt) “Social Media Revolutions

  136. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 2:53 pm #

    Asoka – how do you stand on my proposal to cede Hawaii to Japan?

  137. mika. December 5, 2011 at 2:56 pm #

    LOL! So what’s the problem? Why are you so afraid of everyone?

  138. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 2:57 pm #

    In other words, free money for nothing for the Too Big to Fail banks. Neat huh?
    ——————–
    Really neat. (I assume you are being sarcastic.)
    Tell me, what does the alternative look like? Can you tell me what would happen if QE did not happen?

  139. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 3:00 pm #

    Firstly, I’m not against peaceful change when possible. I merely state that it’s not always possible and that good men have the right to resist evil by force.
    Secondly, evil can be done “peacefully” as well. Many of those that you list were Soros actions; efforts to expand to NWO at the expense of free peoples.
    As Krisnamurti said, Gandhi was an extremely violent man. His methods were relatively peaceful but his mind was devoid of peace. Not completely of course – he is said to have died with the name of Ram on his lips. The point is that pacifism is often ineffective even when motivated by good and that violence is not evil in and of itself. It’s the intent that makes it so. A knife can kill or cure – remember the surgeon’s scapel.

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  140. charliefoxtrot December 5, 2011 at 3:00 pm #

    don t forget the women in liberia: wasn t bloodless by any means, but it was mostly that of the unarmed women & children…

  141. IxNoMor December 5, 2011 at 3:00 pm #

    Quite the contradictory poast there, BTB:
    “The reason I’m on this blog is not to listen to complaints … but to learn about possible solutions.”
    Yet, when it comes to Q’s incessant complaints about spelling, you are perfectly satisfied?
    “Regarding Q’s corrections, I have to take his side on this. … it points out by example the sorry mental state of our society.”
    I see Q’s whinging as nothing but self-anointed chest-thumping. I’m certainly not seeing any resultant solutions, whatsoever.
    Be that as it may, I just wanted to discuss with everyone my latest day-trading tactics, that have netted me $5k/week for the past 8 weeks, with little to no risk, and little to no overhead!!! Who cares that the market is now a fraudulent system, manipulated by volumetric millisecond trades, derivatives, (naked) short/long margin gambling, excessive leveraging, “ETF” commodities (LOL oxymoron), collateralized debt (another oxymoron?) and completely unbacked default insurance/swaps? Get yours while you can!!!

  142. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 3:06 pm #

    What are you talking about? It’s natural to want to end tyranny or escape from thuggery. It’s well known in America that large parts of Hawaii are no longer safe for Whites – just like large parts of our big cities. Whites have never been the majority there and the Japanese have been numerous there for a long time. And they are not hated by the Indigenes as Whites are. And they are a “law and order” bunch to the nth degree. They Would establish order and peace for everyone.
    It’s thinking outside the box – but isn’t that what we have to do now? What has been lacking for so long? The Japanese have a bad colonial history but they may have turned over a new leaf. They might jump at the chance to show it.

  143. Bustin J December 5, 2011 at 3:07 pm #

    Which of Eric Holder’s posses should be mobilized to take down Corzine?

    Antitrust Division
    Asset Forfeiture Program
    Office of the Attorney General
    Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
    Bureau of Justice Assistance
    Bureau of Justice Statistics
    Civil Division
    Civil Rights Division
    Community Capacity Development Office
    Community Oriented Policing Services
    Community Relations Service
    Criminal Division
    Diversion Control Program
    Drug Enforcement Administration
    Environment and Natural Resources Division
    Executive Office for Immigration Review
    Executive Office for Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Forces
    Executive Office for U.S. Attorneys
    Executive Office for U.S. Trustees
    Federal Bureau of Investigation
    Federal Bureau of Prisons
    Foreign Claims Settlement Commission of the U.S.
    INTERPOL (U.S. National Central Bureau)
    Justice Management Division
    National Criminal Justice Reference Service
    National Drug Intelligence Center
    National Institute of Corrections
    National Institute of Justice
    National Security Division
    Office of the Associate Attorney General
    Office of Attorney Recruitment & Management
    Office of the Chief Information Officer
    Office of the Deputy Attorney General
    Office of Dispute Resolution
    Office of the Federal Detention Trustee
    Office of Information Policy
    Office of the Inspector General
    Office of the Intergovernmental and Public Liaison
    Office of Justice Programs
    Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention
    Office of Legal Counsel
    Office of Legal Policy
    Office of Legislative Affairs
    Office of the Pardon Attorney
    Office of Privacy and Civil Liberties
    Office of Professional Responsibility
    Office of Public Affairs
    Office of Sex Offender Sentencing, Monitoring, Apprehending, Registering, and Tracking
    Office of the Solicitor General
    Office of Special Counsel
    Office of Tribal Justice
    Office for Victims of Crime
    Office on Violence Against Women
    Professional Responsibility Advisory Office
    Tax Division
    U.S. Attorneys
    U.S. Marshals Service
    U.S. Parole Commission
    U.S. Trustee Program

    These are all DOJ Agencies. Geez… I wonder if any of these agencies are under threat of budget cuts by the “No Big Gov” parties. Nah.
    Reminds me of that old saw: if gov. agencies solved the problems they were created to address, they’d be out of work…

  144. ABSALOM December 5, 2011 at 3:11 pm #

    Well, thanks for relating, but I’m far, far beyond the type of ethnocentric anger you advocate. When I talk about a rage building within, my tendency toward introspection kicks in and I realize it’s just a bit of sadness that I’m really feeling. But with any emotion, such things need to be apart of a larger process of acquiring experience to better deal with reality.
    I’ll leave the racial grudges to the impotent proles who like to ejaculate their grievances onto other CFNers, who in turn don’t hesitate to rush over to fellow complaining dickheads with towels to sop up their messy gripes in a unity of the mundane.
    You and VK can carry on now.

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  145. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 3:12 pm #

    Asoka – how do you stand on my proposal to cede Hawaii to Japan?
    ———————–
    I am with the one-world government crowd. I want unity, federation, cooperation, not secession and isolation. I like big government.
    All the successful governments, like the Scandanavian democratic socialist countries, provide people with education, health care, etc. through high taxation and high regulation. More taxes, more regulation, that is the key to avoid the tax cuts, elimination of Depts. of Education, Commerce, and Energy and the resulting anarchy the conservatives/libertarians want to have so they can be “free”

  146. Bustin J December 5, 2011 at 3:17 pm #

    Ne Vincent said “And you’re a Louis Vuitton spammer. Wow, are you ever in the wrong place to be promoting crass commercialism and mass consumption!”
    Won’t it be lovely when the descendants of Watson are able to create spam posts so opaquely realistic it will be impossible to tell whether they are a real person or not.

  147. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 3:19 pm #

    More Anti-White news: They’re making a new Conan the Barbarian movie: he will be a mulit-racial Polyneisan type this time. He’s White in Robert E Howard’s books.
    Even worse: they making a new “Red Dawn” movie – with lots of non White patriots. Clearly all White Cultural Icons are to be trashed by the Hollywood gang.

  148. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 3:24 pm #

    Impotent proles? Wow are you ever in for a wake up call on the “Day”. Meet up with some of your Black Brothers and you’ll find out how impotent they are.
    Don’t underestimate people. Everyone has a bit of power – even now never mind then. Even you.

  149. mika. December 5, 2011 at 3:24 pm #

    Seems to me that you live in constant fear. By your own account you’re not safe anywhere. It’s time your God gathered you chosen few and took you where you might be safe. Perhaps a Chinese plantation on the island of Madagascar. I understand this is written in one of your sacred Vatican redacted scripts yet to be publicized. It’s perfect. A prophecy come true.

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  150. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 3:31 pm #

    Your time is coming. Nixon was asked what he thought the long term prospects for Israel were. He just shook his head and gave a thumbs down. You fucked up. You could have had the whole, huge island of Madagascar. But your egos were too big and you had to have the Holy Land – which doesn’t belong to you anymore. You have destroyed countless Palestinian Villages and killed countless Palestinians, both Muslim and Christian. Surely you don’t think you’re going to get away with it?
    You must accept the right of return and surrender yourselves to the tender mercies of the practicioners of the Religion of Peace. I’m sure it will all work out fine! Just ask Asoka.

  151. mika. December 5, 2011 at 3:37 pm #

    I’ll leave the racial grudges to the impotent proles who like to ejaculate their grievances onto other CFNers
    ==
    That’s a beautiful sentence there, Absalom. It will not be long before your passive-aggressiveness evolves into something more useful than passive spectatorship. I know this, because I perfectly understand human nature.

  152. jesuswept December 5, 2011 at 3:37 pm #

    And we continue to pour money into highways so that megacorporations can build more fast food outlets and gas stations at each offramp to bring minimum wage employment to rural youth. All the while trashing Amtrak for being inefficient and a burden on taxpayers.
    As JHK says, its time to get busy building a new society. OWS is not a bad place to start.

  153. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 3:41 pm #

    Mika, Vlad does not have to choose a location on Planet Earth. Here in the southwest we have a spaceport.
    http://www.spaceportamerica.com/about-us/spaceport-america.html
    There may be other places to look into.

  154. mika. December 5, 2011 at 3:44 pm #

    Perhaps the question to Nixon should have been what he thought was the long term prospects for Nixon. Anyway, that question is already answered. Point being, we’re still around. Others who were our contemporaries thousands of years ago are long gone. And we’ll still be around long after the US empire is done and gone.

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  155. mika. December 5, 2011 at 3:48 pm #

    I highly doubt Vlad could pass the Physical.

  156. ABSALOM December 5, 2011 at 3:49 pm #

    “It will not be long before your passive-aggressiveness evolves into something more useful than passive spectatorship. I know this, because I perfectly understand human nature.”
    =================================================
    Alright, expert. I’ll bite. What do you mean by something more useful?

  157. ABSALOM December 5, 2011 at 3:50 pm #

    By the way. You’re callin’ me passive aggressive meteuselah/mika. Get a life.

  158. Drew Keeling December 5, 2011 at 3:53 pm #

    Interesting and trenchant commentary as usual, but Rome was not destroyed in a day.

  159. anti soak December 5, 2011 at 3:56 pm #

    Jailed:
    Martha Stewart
    Leona Helmsly

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  160. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 3:57 pm #

    And we’ll still be around long after the US empire is done and gone.
    ============
    Mika, the USA empire will fall and die, like previous empires have. You don’t need to rage so much, IMHO.
    Inertia (to change) will be overcome by the momentum of its victims’ blowback. Collapse is inevitable, with or without our efforts.

  161. IxNoMor December 5, 2011 at 3:59 pm #

    “You could put Corzine, Dimon, and their friends in prison with 100 year sentences … and it won’t do a damn thing about the toxic paper that is choking the world economy. The damage has been done.”
    LOL, you Obama apologist! Let’s just focus on the future; anything that has already occurred cannot be changed! It’s not as if punishment for that crime would provide an incentive against committing that crime in the future…
    Your weak-@$$ argument above is like saying we shouldn’t hold rapists or murderers accountable for their crimes, as their victims cannot be unraped or raised from the dead. The damage has been done.
    Ahh, I get it – you’re on with that sarcasm/irony flip-flop bit again. Workin’ both sides of the argument, liek the true master-debater!!!

  162. mika. December 5, 2011 at 3:59 pm #

    What do you mean by something more useful?
    ==
    It means that soon you’ll be parroting EVERYTHING that I’ve been saying, and maybe you’ll even act on it.

  163. mika. December 5, 2011 at 4:01 pm #

    True. But every reaction needs a catalyst. I’m that catalyst.

  164. ABSALOM December 5, 2011 at 4:01 pm #

    HA HA HA HA.
    You’re insane dude.
    Take care

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  165. turkle December 5, 2011 at 4:05 pm #

    It is pretty neat, if you work for a mega-bank.
    What is the alternative? There are plenty. Why has giving free money to private banks become the only way to handle our financial difficulties? Are you for the public purse supporting the schemes of banks who have already proven themselves reckless and irresponsible? Isn’t this like giving 100k to your teenage son who just wrecked your Ferrari?
    There was a whole menu of options deployed back in the S&L days like breaking apart institutions. But the easy way out is simply keystroking in a couple billion into a bank’s Fed Reserve account. The GS alumni now running the Fed and the Treasury Department like that option the best, too.

  166. k-dog December 5, 2011 at 4:05 pm #

    Congress could hold impeachment proceedings against Attorney General Holder for high crimes and misdemeanors. I would imagine that would take quite a few letters to congress and a lot of time we don’t have. Beyond this Obama could fire him. Since that won’t happen the only way is to fire Obama. Electing someone who will fire him is the only way.
    Like k-dog for instance. I’ll do it while I’m reaching for the phone to close Guantanamo, first day in.

  167. mika. December 5, 2011 at 4:05 pm #

    Yes, that was the reaction two years back. Now, practically everyone sees exactly what I see.

  168. anti soak December 5, 2011 at 4:06 pm #

    What about the bill that passed 93-7?
    Alex Jones was on C2C last nite …..any comments?

  169. ubs December 5, 2011 at 4:08 pm #

    The reason none of the Wallstreet grifters has been arrested is that the New York police department is facing a serious shortage of handcuffs. Apparently they were all used up hauling away OWS protesters. So if you can afford it, please donate to the HFB (handcuffs for bankers) charitable fund : http://www.ronpaul2012.com/

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  170. Norman Conquest December 5, 2011 at 4:10 pm #

    Looks like todays discussion is, once again, spinning out of control.

  171. mika. December 5, 2011 at 4:14 pm #

    Keep raising people’s awareness. It’s not long before a critical mass of people will be reached, and then it’s game over for these fsckers.

  172. cosmictroll December 5, 2011 at 4:18 pm #

    How anyone thinks anymore that all this mess that we are in can be fixed are operating on only a couple of cylinders. It is a no go no matter what they say or tell you. They are just hoping to get theirs while the getting is still good and be able to disappear. We have entered another universe one of the many multiverses the mechanics talk about and it is going to be so different that none of us can imagine it. I am not saying worse I am saying different. One cannot plan their way out of evolution. Evolution happens when no one is looking.

  173. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 4:22 pm #

    And if that One World Goverment goes bad – what recourse does anyone have then? No limitation in size – and the checks and balances that come from that – are the very essence of sane goverment.

  174. IxNoMor December 5, 2011 at 4:27 pm #

    “No one has ever been able to explain why Bush Two was so protective of Mexico. The explosion of “immigrants” began with him and he largely covered for them. Why? I don’t believe the Bush family was part of the cartels, but why cover for and protect such a violent invasion?”
    Oh please – the Mexican immigrants are not a violent invasion, unless you find picking crops/doing yardwork violent and invasive. Is this something FOX news continues to hype now that Hussein is in office?
    “I kind of like George W.”
    And I’m not surprised. Sometimes I think your name should really be JulettaOfTejas, but then, I guess the teabaggers did do some damage in Ohio/Wisconsin/Michigan/Indiana/etc…

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  175. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 4:28 pm #

    The Egyptians are still around. As are the Persians. They aren’t the same people and culture? Neither are the Jews. Ancient Jews didn’t have the Talmud and weren’t Pharisees. Nor did they have Mongolian eyes or big New York noses.
    Sure Jews will probably still be around for a long time. But Israel? Get a life – and get a passport while you’re at it.

  176. turkle December 5, 2011 at 4:44 pm #

    What exactly makes you the expert on who should live where, Vladistan?

  177. turkle December 5, 2011 at 4:49 pm #

    To quote from one my favorite movies, “That’s just like, your opinion, man.”
    Seriously though, why don’t you get specific? You “think” Obama is like a teenager. Okay then. I think you’re just another American airhead who makes things up based on second hand information from cable television.
    As it is, you just barfed out a bunch of ad hominem attacks I could just as well hear on an episode of Hannity and Friends.

  178. mika. December 5, 2011 at 4:51 pm #

    No, Vlad. Those peoples no longer exist. What made them what they are is no longer there. It’s no longer there in terms of language and culture and it’s no longer there in terms of genetics.
    As for your Talmud and Pharisees, I completely reject both. As do the vast vast vast majority of Jews. Our national identity is our tribal connection to our ancient land our ancient language our ancient culture our ancient history. That was always the case. That will always be the case.

  179. turkle December 5, 2011 at 4:52 pm #

    “I kind of like George W.”
    I kind of think you’re a clueless moron.

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  180. turkle December 5, 2011 at 4:56 pm #

    Why are you bothering to argue with this Vlad character, anyways? The best strategy is not to play or just deride him and his ridiculous race baiting with disparaging one-liners. It isn’t worth the time to write out detailed replies to his idiocy. In his own mind, he’s some kind of genius of history and race politics, so you’re never going to get through to him.

  181. wagelaborer December 5, 2011 at 4:59 pm #

    Thanks for the link, lbendet.
    I’m only half way through, but I already used the exponential water thing on my radio show this morning.
    Good stuff.

  182. wagelaborer December 5, 2011 at 5:04 pm #

    I believe that this was the same person who thought that farm fields were “blown up” earlier this year, and expressed anger that the government chose a bunch of, (and I believe that she used the word) “niggers” over corn.
    Because she thinks that the US has too many African-Americans, and doesn’t grow enough corn, apparently.
    This was back during the floods in April, when I was dealing with the people who had to evacuate their homes due to flooding. The reason I remember is because she pushed me over the edge that time.

  183. Widespreadpanic7 December 5, 2011 at 5:05 pm #

    Hey JullettaofOhio welcome back … not a frequent poster but one of my favorites … I’m always interested in what you have to say!
    I would just offer, in regard to President Bush & Mexican immigration, that any Governor of Texas would have to show an unusual sensitivity for the concerns of the Govt. of Mexico and its emigrants to El Norte. The border is so long, Mexico so close. And of course there’s the whole history going back to the Texas Republic and the Mexican War 1846-1848. Gov. Perry is the same way.
    –WSP7

  184. turkle December 5, 2011 at 5:06 pm #

    Bush, huh? Let us count the ways.
    Launched a completely optional war against Iraq that turned into a botch job. This war, BTW, was based on falsified intelligence decided on for “administration reasons,” e.g. the infamous WMDs.
    Got the US stuck in the Afghanistan quagmire for ten years.
    Cut taxes massively for the rich while we were in the midst of said wars, thus destroying any semblance of fiscal responsibility left in the US budget.
    Helped pass the Medicare part D prescription drug plan, an unfunded mandate costing the governemtn hundreds of billions.
    Had his lawyers write up justifications for torture and illegal wiretapping.
    Oversaw financial and corporate deregulation that lead to many scandals and catastrophes, such as Enron, the financial crisis, etc.
    His grammar and speaking abilities were so notoriously aweful that the term “Bushism” was coined to describe his verbal gaffes.
    His administration outed a CIA agent all because her husband had the balls to, you know, tell the truth.
    And on and on.
    And you “kind of like” this guy? LOL. There is no hope for you!

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  185. mika. December 5, 2011 at 5:08 pm #

    I don’t want him to ever have the excuse of saying that he didn’t know. He does know. The more he continues with his tact, the more he knows; the deeper the eternal grave he digs for himself.

  186. turkle December 5, 2011 at 5:15 pm #

    He’s picked the Jews as his whipping boy, like a good little crypto-Nazi. It makes him feel superior to identify some group that is supposedly responsible for the world’s problems and the miserable nature of his existence. The Jewish NWO is keeping him down, doncha know?
    I wouldn’t feed the fire, if I were you, even inadvertently.

  187. ront December 5, 2011 at 5:16 pm #

    “ront, have you been to the Bhopal Centre in India?”
    No, Asoka, what is and what’s happening at the Bhopal Centre?

  188. mika. December 5, 2011 at 5:20 pm #

    Sorry, I’d rather he’d drown in blue waters rather than brown waters.

  189. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 5:49 pm #

    Forgive me, ront. I thought perhaps you had had the privilege of going to the Avatar Meher Baba Bhopal Centre in India.
    http://bit.ly/vgHA7a
    Perhaps I am mistakenly assuming you have an association with Meher Baba. I attended some meetings of the Seattle Meher Baba group in 1969.

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  190. Buck Stud December 5, 2011 at 5:59 pm #

    “As JHK says, its time to get busy building a new society. OWS is not a bad place to start.”
    Is there any doubt that certain politicians/power brokers would love nothing better than to declare OWS a terrorist organization? And detain indefinitely some of its participants without trial?
    The calender reads as December but the truly chilling has yet to arrive.

  191. cunning runt December 5, 2011 at 5:59 pm #

    Vlad,
    You, Mika, and Metuselah are one. Certainly not the Holy Trinity, but a trinity all the same. The three are one and the one is three.
    Get back on your meds and please stop talking to yourselves.
    CR

  192. jesuswept December 5, 2011 at 6:08 pm #

    Buck Stud,
    I understand OWS is too decentralized to attack in that way, though there are rumors that DHS may have helped coordinate the attacks on various OWS encampments.
    Bottom line, you cannot destroy an idea whose time has come. I am sure there are those who try, of course.

  193. IxNoMor December 5, 2011 at 6:11 pm #

    As to the U of I discussion last week, I do have to admit I made the following assumption. If you payed tuition, that you’d at least attend the 16 hours worth of class lectures each week, that you’d spend at least 1-2 hours a day studying the material/doing homework, and that you’d show up to take all the exams/finals.
    I did know a couple of guys who rarely/never went to lectures, and only showed up for exams/finals. They were exceptional leeches, getting homework/lecture notes from “friends” in those classes (some from frat house archives). They’d only study during the “all nighter” session prior to exams/finals. They tended to do alright, pulling B’s in the prerequisite classes, but getting hammered with C/D’s in 400-level degree-specific courses.
    When I went to U of I in the late 80’s, it was $1.6k a semester for in-state tuition and fees ($3.2k/year, not including books/room/board). Back then, you could get into all the campus bars at age 18, and once you were in the doors they’d serve you (drinking age was 21 for IL state). Needless to say, pretty much every night was spent with friends going out to the campus bars (“frat” bars were crowded and served cheap drinks). I should have avoided that scene, saved some time/money, and tripled my study time to 3-6 hours/day – but if I had to do it all over again, I don’t think I’d change it…
    I knew a couple other guys that flunked out, due to spending all their time playing pool at the union and in the campus bars. I’m guessing the bar scene is a lot different/nonexistent now. I’m also guessing those annual street party keg-fests and the annual pot party in the quad no longer happen. And *WoW*, the annual in-state tuition/fees are $14-19k this year!!! I’ll bet the average starting salary for a BS in engineering has barely gone up from the ~$35k back in 1989 (wiki suggests ~$50k now – certainly not the 5-fold U of I residential tuition/fees increase)…

  194. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 6:14 pm #

    As Bilbo said, a road is a dangerous thing. You never know where it’s going to take you. Feminist and Liberal sites are always watched carefully and vigilant about what can and cannot be said. Offenders are banned – the one strike rule typically. You might feel more comfortable at ones of these Anti-American/Western Civilization type blogs.

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  195. wagelaborer December 5, 2011 at 6:34 pm #

    Well, of course, the point I was making was that even though he did all the “wrong things”, according to the dominant paradigm, it worked out better for him than for those who followed the party line.
    I’m not quite sure why you got so upset. Are you still paying on college loans?
    At the time, I didn’t realize that my children’s generation was being attacked by the bankers, and the best and brightest were targeted for perpetual debt slavery.
    That seems to evil, even for them.
    And yet…
    Personally, I was hoping that the next bubble would be in green technology, as a writer in Harper’s magazine proposed in 2006, or so. He noted that the dot com bubble was immediately followed by the housing bubble, which was due to pop, and advised that turning to a green future would be a great way in inflate the next bubble.
    Nope, they went after the kids instead.
    Lbendet was right. I am quoting Max Keiser when I talk about financial rape. And he calls for beheading bankers, also.
    I am against capital punishment, but the idea is still appealing. Look at the harm and human misery they’ve caused.
    I am quite sanguine about my son, and his choices. Perhaps you should also take a broader look.

  196. wagelaborer December 5, 2011 at 6:36 pm #

    Correction: It seems too evil, even for them.

  197. wagelaborer December 5, 2011 at 6:45 pm #

    Also, you seemed personally aggrieved that he got a job, which I found uncharitable.
    He also has been promoted three times in two years, which I ascribe to his brilliance and ability, although it could just as equally be his good looks and charm.
    Who knows?

  198. wagelaborer December 5, 2011 at 6:48 pm #

    I think that it was also Max Keiser who pointed out that people who invested with Jon Corzine probably knew he was a crook, but assumed that they would also benefit from his ill-gotten gains, due to his prominence.
    As I always say, there is no honor among thieves.

  199. progress2conserve December 5, 2011 at 6:49 pm #

    This springboards off your “pay for sterilization” idea Wage, that several CFN posters have said they would support.
    Project Prevention only pays drug addicts – but you’ve got to start somewhere.
    http://www.projectprevention.org/

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  200. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 6:53 pm #

    That joke is a little old and you are alot boring. Is this all you have to say? It is because all you Liberals tend to believe exactly the same thing. No wonder since you watch the same shows and get programmed by the same people.

  201. BeantownBill December 5, 2011 at 6:55 pm #

    Dear President K-Dog,
    Just a little request: Hire Senator Elizabeth Warren for the job of special prosecutor to bring to justice the hordes of government and business thieves. Failing that, maybe your former competitor, Jill Stein.
    And immediately after shutting down Guantamano, declare victory in the war against drugs, and legalize them.

  202. BeantownBill December 5, 2011 at 7:01 pm #

    I know I heard that quote in some movie, but for the life of me, I just can’t remember which one – although it does sound BigLebowskiish. Please do tell.

  203. turkle December 5, 2011 at 7:04 pm #

    Yup.

  204. BeantownBill December 5, 2011 at 7:04 pm #

    Right on, Mika!

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  205. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 7:05 pm #

    Wage said:

    my children’s generation was being attacked by the bankers, and the best and brightest were targeted for perpetual debt slavery.

    In a civilized country education is provided. For example, in Denmark you can go from kindergarten to your PhD and it is all government-paid.
    Even in Central America, in Costa Rica, you can go from kindergarten to PhD for very little money. The University of Costa Rica, the nation’s best public university, charges less than three thousand dollars ($3,000) a year for tuition and fees. Those tuition costs are per year, not per semester.

  206. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 7:06 pm #

    Jews are not the same people genetically or culturally either. Language Ok, more or less. The revival of Hebrew was an quite an accomplishment.
    But your Judaism is dying: you all are a Western People and aren’t having babies either. The future of Judaism belongs to the Orthodox.
    So you better get busy with those Black Jew girls if you want to have a future. Liberal Women are selfish sluts, be they Jew or Gentile. Maybe the Falasha girls aren’t corrupted yet…And the offspring will be even farther away from historical Judaism genetically – but you don’t know that….

  207. charliefoxtrot December 5, 2011 at 7:09 pm #

    ever consider that maybe gitmo has more prisoners than we know about? like maybe the disappeared? and that ourbama fully believed he could close it until he was sworn in and made privy to “state secrets” and nat l security issues? what have we been told since? a very quiet “it s complicated”…i know y all don t like conspiracy theorists, but what happened to the passengers who showed up on the flight logs at a nasa installation? that ditch full of scrap metal and the round hole opposite rummy s office were made by no airplanes…

  208. turkle December 5, 2011 at 7:11 pm #

    Vlad, you are like a cross between Joan Rivers and Pat Buchannan, and boy is your shtick getting old. We get it, okay? You don’t like the Jews. Stop telling us over and over and over again.

  209. BeantownBill December 5, 2011 at 7:15 pm #

    Wow, when I graduated college – sometime around when Barney Rubble graduated HS – a typical BS in EE got around $7-8000/yr. starting salary. Talk about destruction of the dollar. Couldn’t compare to my HS job of wiping cars in a car wash for $1.05/hr.

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  210. BeantownBill December 5, 2011 at 7:22 pm #

    You’re a man after my own heart, Turk. I loved that movie, too. BTW, I just saw “Hugo” and I would recommend seeing it – an excellent movie.

  211. IxNoMor December 5, 2011 at 7:24 pm #

    “I’m not quite sure why you got so upset. Are you still paying on college loans?”
    I wasn’t upset, more like shocked. I found that I had to do a lot of study/homework for my first 3-6 months on the job. These requirements were in line with most college courses I took. From what I can tell, scholarships at U of I only cover up to about 50% of the total tuition/fees. So, to make an investment like that (plus books/room/board), then piss it away in a semester, seems like a waste of a lot of time and money to me. And it illustrates a general lack of responsibility (concern?), that seems too common with the texting kiddies these daze…
    I am pretty upset to find out that ~20 years later, the average starting salary for a BS engineering degree has only increased ~40% – yet the cost of the same-exact degree has increased ~400-500%. And, as we all know, student debt can no longer be resolved through bankruptcy, since ~2005. Finally, the vast majority of these jobs will likely go to the minority immigrants (who tend to be the very best of the best from their billion-person homelands [China/India]).
    And no, I don’t have any student loans to pay off. I worked as a busboy and banquet waiter for 3 years during high school, and I did a 2-year coop during college (alternating semesters, $9-12/hour, in Washington, DC – total joke wage, I earned more as a busboy years earlier) to pay my expenses. I did owe my parents ~$6k when I graduated from college, but payed that back within 2 years with a serious bonus (Dad told me to stop sending him money, LOL).
    I absolutely believe that the work ethic/self-sufficiency has a huge impact on building character and success. Parents that have tuition funds for their children, buy them cars, pay all their expenses, and cater to their every whim, result in children that will go no where, but into their parent’s basements for another 2 decades after high school graduation. (That paragraph needs work, LOL!)
    “Personally, I was hoping that the next bubble would be in green technology”
    I’ve been betting on the tuition bubble pop for a while, and have poasted so for a while here. Just not sure if it will come before it all falls off the *cliff*…
    As to the kids, they were sold down the river a long time ago. Take a look outside – the resources (forests/water/land) have been exponentially plundered, what remains has been exponentially polluted with toxic heavy metals/radiation/carcinogenic hydrocarbons, each US child is born into an indentured tax-burden servitude of at least $50k (more like $500k, but who’s *counting*), ad-nauseum – not a single one of us gave a damn if anything would be left for them when we are gone… May as well leverage them to the hilt now, ala student “collateralized debt” (sardonic indeed – Spirit: Dr Sardonicus!)

  212. progress2conserve December 5, 2011 at 7:26 pm #

    “There is much to suggest that most immigrants already among us would support reductions in immigration numbers. The reasons are not surprising. Virtually any reduction designed to help native-born Americans would be even more beneficial to foreign-born Americans. That is why so many immigrants are supporters of NumbersUSA.com.
    Perhaps the greatest “immigrant bashers” are those Members of Congress who refuse to look at the abysmal conditions of so many immigrant Americans and who every year insist on adding more than a million more immigrants into their occupations, schools and communities.”
    http://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/about-us/no-immigrant-bashing/no-immigrant-bashing.html
    The people who are here are here.
    Even the illegals deserve a chance at legality.
    But, we’ve got to stop the growth in US population, first. Since almost 2.5 million US residents die every year – that should not be that hard to accomplish.

  213. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 7:27 pm #

    The real Semites are basically the Arabs now – and a small number of other minorities: Assyrians, Chaldeans, and the “Oriental Jews”. Are you an Oriental Jew? No? So?
    Some of the Celts once lived in Asia Minor. So should the Irish Americans use Catholicism as a unifying principle and and ask other Catholics to join them in a Crusade to take back Asia Minor for Irish Catholic Celts? No? So?

  214. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 7:30 pm #

    I’m just making too much sense as usual and that makes you liberal “thinkers” uncomfortable.
    Do you really support what the Jews did/do to the Palestinians? So much for your ideals, clown.

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  215. DeeJones December 5, 2011 at 7:34 pm #

    “The Plan is to unite Canada, America, and Mexico into a common economy a la the European Union. Letting in millions of illegals is part of erasing the border. Later on South America and North America will be joined -”
    HA-HA-HA…. Like that will ever happen. So Am has NO interest in ‘joining’ NA.
    And Vlad, you just gotta get out of the trailer park once in awhile. Have you ever been to Hawaii? They like the Japanese money, but they would actually have someone like you “ruling” them vs the Japanese. Of course, if they had the choice, they’d kick out all the hauolies.
    Where do you get your info? The Wite History channel? Wite Pwr!
    🙂

  216. turkle December 5, 2011 at 7:44 pm #

    What makes me uncomfortable (more like annoyed) is having to scroll past your inane posts every week.
    Anyways, no, I don’t really support what happened to the Palestinians with the founding of Israel, but then again, it wasn’t the worst thing that ever happened in terms of genocide or ethnic cleansing. The history of nations and peoples is a pretty brutal succession of might makes right events. The situation with Israel is really not any different from hundreds of other conflicts throughout history, especially in that region of the world.
    So funny (sad really) that you can write off the Holocaust as being an invention, even though it was the worst genocide of all time, and then you have endless compassion for the poor Palestinians, only a comparably tiny fraction of whom have been killed by the Israelis. (If they had been completely wiped out and/or displaced, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion, but the Jews were actually nice enough not to kill all of them.) I never thought of you as a humanitarian, or if you are one, you’re not very consistent.
    The way I see it is that the Jews fought 3 or 4 wars to grab that territory from 1947 through the seventies. The Arabs lost, you know, fair and square (so to speak). They can’t get over it, because of religious differences, as far as I can tell. That’s pretty funny they are so sore about it considering that Islam is a religion of conquest, and they think they’re entitled to all their lands that were conquered by the sword. Of course, I don’t expect much consistency from people, who are generally pretty hypocritical about anything having to do with their own groups.
    And aren’t you the one who talks about how the white man taking over America was manifest destiny and that it was fine to displace or wipe out the Indians? So the Jews can’t kick out a few Arabs to found their own country? What’s the difference?
    I kind of resent having my ideals questioned by someone who is so inconsistent in how they apply theirs, depending on whether or not their pet racial groups are involved or not.
    And me, I don’t believe in “right” or “wrong” when it comes to history. I just like to observe. Moralizing about historical events in which one has no personal stake is for preachers and simpletons.

  217. IxNoMor December 5, 2011 at 7:44 pm #

    More on these kids – these poor US kids…
    What are the kids taught today? They are taught to want “it all” – 2-ton death-metal coffins (cars), iphones, mcmansions, worthless Chinese plastic garbage – anything and everything, recycled every 6 months or so (with *residuals* ending up as landfill waste). They are taught to max out credit lines, in order to maintain “it all.”
    So really, it’s not just a one-way street where we simply sold them down the river. They have also chosen their current course of action (thrift and savings were options they avoided)…

  218. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 7:45 pm #

    Good point. Someone is indignant if they can’t get on a crowded bus, train, or tram. But once on they will wax eloquent on why the doors should close.
    From last week: I forget sometimes you’re a country boy and have been “bereft” of many experiences I’ve had. All Whites who use public transportation in Big City America have horror stories about Blacks acting out there. Lucky you. But don’t be dogmatic about things you know nothing about. I don’t expect to be believed – most Whites on this site think Whites on the Mexican border are racists for complaining. The President of Ireland went through the area and loftily called them just that.
    Whites just don’t believe other Whites. There something wrong with our social nervous system you see. It’s like be able to see your foot but not being able to feel it. Whites can’t feel the pain of other Whites and resent it when they’re informed about it.
    How did it happen? You see our Media or nervous system was taken over by aliens – who have used it with the utmost malice.
    Back to the top: legalizing those here will just encourage more to come. It’s an easy answer, and like most easy answers, the wrong one. Look at Alabama, your neighboring state. The Mexicans are running. Do the same everywhere and they will deport themselves. Don’t buy into the Fascist Trip the Liberals are selling. Does this contradict what I said before? How? Those here might want the doors closed but those left behind will force there way in regardless. Plus those here will all want Their relations to come in once they’re legal.

  219. progress2conserve December 5, 2011 at 7:49 pm #

    We had a poster come and go a few months ago.
    His handle was “The Bay Aryan.”
    Wonder if this was his inspiration.
    Or if he was the author.
    http://www.jimgoad.net/pdf/politics/bayaryan.pdf
    Jim Goad has something for everybody.
    Thanks to CharlieFoxtrot, I think, for suggesting him to CFN.
    “SAN FRANCISCO constantly struggles
    with itself to solve the question of how many
    assholes it’s possible to fit into a square mile.
    How many cybersissies can you cram into a phone
    booth? How many Gaia-peddling belly-floppers? How
    many self-absorbed monkish Nerf® balls of ideological irrelevance?” etc, etc, etc.
    -bay aryan-
    Pretty funny satire, actually.

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  220. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 7:49 pm #

    That’s my point D: the Japs want take any guff from these obese low lifes. Btw, I’d give them one of the big Islands. But that’s it – no more welfare or endless complaining. The hardliners could all go there and Hawaii could develop its volcanic energy potential.

  221. DeeJones December 5, 2011 at 7:56 pm #

    “No, Asoka, what is and what’s happening at the Bhopal Centre?” Isn’t that where the new OSHO (pronounced Assho) center is located?
    🙂 Nite.

  222. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 7:57 pm #

    Good points Turk. You have no ideals but power. A man I can deal with. Now let’s not have any more “moral” arguments about Whites taking a big chunk of post America America. The Kosovo Doctrine – if it’s good for the goose it’s good for the gander. If Jews can do it, and Muslims can do it, so can Whites. We agree finally. I’ve won. You are checkmated, mate.
    I do believe in morality btw. But it’s complicated. It’s refreshing to meet a pragmatist like you and not have to get into – exspecially when most people are so bad at it – only caring about their pet groups like Wage. Not caring about the Whites in South Africa but only Negroes in the rest of Africa.

  223. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 8:02 pm #

    His Redneck Manifesto was the first White Nationalist book I ever read. I owe alot to “Jim”. That he stoped and I kept going is another story. So it goes. One of my friends is now exceeding me in Conspiratology. I’m urging him to begin his Holocaust studies. He will teach me new things. The circle becomes complete.

  224. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 8:07 pm #

    Vlad said: “Look at Alabama, your neighboring state. The Mexicans are running. Do the same everywhere and they will deport themselves.”

    Potato farmer Keith Smith saw most of his immigrant workers leave after Alabama’s tough immigration law took effect, so he hired Americans. It hasn’t worked out: Most show up late, work slower than seasoned farm hands and are ready to call it a day after lunch or by midafternoon. Some quit after a single day.

    You better hope they don’t deport themselves. America will starve to death without immigrants. The economy of Alabama could crash without immigrants because whites do not want to work.
    Arizona tried that anti-immigrant shit. If immigrants left Arizona the fiscal impact of immigrants leaving would shrink Arizona’s economy by $48.8 Billion. Arizona better hope immigrants never leave.

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  225. charliefoxtrot December 5, 2011 at 8:12 pm #

    disclaimer: i do not agree with everything in the manifesto, and have not read anything else by him…also, his name leads me to figure that a part of his message is intended to do just that, shake things up…that being said, the idea that stereotypes (everything from honkey to n-word) divide and distract poor people from the rich getting richer at our expense is undeniable at this point…

  226. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 8:12 pm #

    LOL! Osho Centers are multiplying faster than rabbits… all over India.
    http://www.oshosky.com/main/medcen/maincen.htm
    Indians recognize quality. India has a long history of authentic spiritual masters, so recognition comes easily to them.

  227. lyttonmike December 5, 2011 at 8:23 pm #

    Mr. Kunstler,
    My goodness! It’s a long way to the bottom of the page. This is still Monday, right? The Posts from VNRWANDKHB and ELJXANJGIL seemed to be in Chinese and I soon gave up all attempts at translating them. My loss, I suppose.
    But, I’ve lost my train of thought, haven’t I. Oh yes, here it is. We’re all silly fools. Utter, complacent, compassless fools. Gorgeous folly.
    But that is as it should be, and I thank you all for your energy and self-assurance. But let me tell you, we haven’t changed in thousands of years. We are the same as we’ve ever been.
    Mr. Kunstler, I can’t thank you enough for the predictability of your posts. I look forward to a Monday morning on the front porch, drinking tea, reading your post and the flood of comments and links. It fills me with great happiness.
    Glorious Humanity asserting itself. It’s lovely. Is Sandy still in Russia? If you see him, please ask him to eschew obfuscation.
    Mike

  228. Buck Stud December 5, 2011 at 8:23 pm #

    Ron Paul has a new political ad in Iowa that could have been written by Filippo Tommaso Marinetti and the Italian Futurists: a sense of “going somewhere” via the use of strong diagonals; a high-energy message delivered with a masculine narrator; the invoking of militarism:
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/05/1042626/-Ron-Pauls-new-ad-in-Iowa-is-epic?via=siderecent

  229. turkle December 5, 2011 at 8:24 pm #

    “America will starve to death without immigrants.”
    Complete horse shit.

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  230. charliefoxtrot December 5, 2011 at 8:25 pm #

    can you READ??! he was pointing out that buying into “i m better than them”, hating niggers, laughing at rednecks, basically marginalizing and dehumanizing ANY group of people IS WHAT ALLOWS THE FUCKERS TO MAINTAIN CONTROL OF OUR WORLD, BECAUSE WE THEN ARE NOT LOOKING AT THEM!!! get it through the programming, assface, you are part of the problem as long as you are a willing puppet and enabling the bullshit…sorry, i shouldn t have called you that…how about jackass?

  231. turkle December 5, 2011 at 8:27 pm #

    If America did collapse politically and another Civil War began, I would leave, probably to Canada or some other more civilized place with a still intact government. As much as you like to romanticize political violence, the reality on the ground would be pure horror, especially considering how many guns Americans own and how violent we really are. I could give a shit about the white race taking territory. Fine. I’d get the hell out and not worry about it.

  232. bproman December 5, 2011 at 8:28 pm #

    Hurry now and get zero per cent financing with as little as zero down at a cost of zero fiat digital dollars.
    But wait, this deal won’t last long and if you sign up now we’ll throw in a free radioactive paint job, sorry folks gasoline not included. Have a robotic holly jolly political correct festive season.

  233. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    It is CRUNCH TIME, as E. said. It could come as soon as the day after tomorrow because Standard & Poor’s is warning it may downgrade ratings for 15 euro zone countries, including top-rated France and Germany. This whole economic house of cards could come tumbling down around 2:00 p.m. next Tuesday.

  234. mika. December 5, 2011 at 8:34 pm #

    Actually, Vlad, my girlfriend is Chilean. She’s of mixed blood, Spanish and Indian. She’s not black. Not that I would care.

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  235. mika. December 5, 2011 at 8:37 pm #

    Exactly! The old divide and conquer. But Vlad is too emotionally blinded to understand.

  236. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 8:38 pm #

    So do you admit that the Polys routinely attack Whites – as the singer Jewel spoke about? And are you alright with that? Why? You do have to give an explanation if so – and whatever it is, it will be bullshit.

  237. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 8:40 pm #

    ASOKA: “America will starve to death without immigrants.”
    TURKLE: Complete horse shit.
    ====================
    Ignore reality at your own risk. I provided documentation based on what is actually happening in places like Alabama and Arizona. If that were to happen in the entire USA, America will starve to death. I provided the numbers for economic impact.
    You provide no historical antecedent, no analysis, no facts, no numbers. You just offer your opinion.

  238. Vlad Krandz December 5, 2011 at 8:42 pm #

    Between your hatred, bad grammar, bad style etc – I don’t even know who you’re refering to. Do Whites have the right to have their own Countries or not? That’s what you have to decide.
    Your mind will tell you one thing. And your heart another. And your decency or heart/mind a third. Trust that. The other two are relative and programable, the third, conscience, is innate.

  239. progress2conserve December 5, 2011 at 8:46 pm #

    “America will starve to death without immigrants.”
    -asoka-
    “Complete horse shit.”
    -turkle-
    You’ve got that right, turkle.
    What America will starve from is a lack of diesel, fertilizer, herbicides – coupled to a big supply chain disruption or two.
    More and more immigrants – will just be adding to the number of people who will fight it out – mostly in the cities – before starving.

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  240. mika. December 5, 2011 at 8:53 pm #

    Right on, Bill! 🙂

  241. turkle December 5, 2011 at 8:58 pm #

    You are making false assumptions about behavior, that it doesn’t change because of circumstances, which is demonstrably false. If immigrants doing all the farm work were to leave all at once, then the people remaining would modify their behavior such that everyone didn’t starve to death. Farmers might have to pay higher wages, etc. but the crops would not rot in the field. Someone would do the work. America also has a lot of extra land on which people could grow fruits and veggies, if needed.
    That said, Mexican immigrants are certainly an important part of the farm economy and its primary workers. I’m not arguing they are not. That doesn’t mean that they should be allowed to stay and work here illegally. Work visas are the way to go, as it puts everyone on the grid, and prevents these people from being exploited. Ultimately, it is better for the immigrants if they can come and stay here legally rather than illegally.
    In every other country, including Mexico, they will boot you out on your ass if you are found to overstay your visa or were caught after entering illegally, or even give you jail time. Why should it be different here?
    I think all that a lot of people are saying is, sure, you can come stay here and work if a farmer wants to hire you, but please follow the rules to get here. What is so complicated about that such that, instead, you support millions of people breaking our laws?
    Now I know the visa system is pretty messed up, in that it is somewhat expensive to obtain one and takes awhile. That should be streamlined and reformed so that farmers get the workers they require on a yearly basis. I am all in favor of it.
    And then there’s all the other jobs that illegals will do for sub-market wages, such as restaurant work, cleaning, etc. Please don’t tell me that these jobs could not be done by other people who are here legally, like teenagers or the large number of people unemployed who have been searching for work. This has always been the case in the past that these positions were filled just fine, and I don’t buy your stupid line that people in America are too across-the-board lazy to pick up this slack. Talk about stupid generalizations.

  242. Buck Stud December 5, 2011 at 9:02 pm #

    When I first looked at the length of that Ron Paul ad I thought it was an attempt to economize. After watching it though, it seems to embody the spirit of a military thrust: direct,abrupt,lethal. No contemplation or consideration, no taking of philosophically divergent prisoners, just destruction. “Git ir done” (as the the Dept of Education is incinerated by an explosive).
    These ads are not designed/composed without thought. They appeal to a certain clientele which is not a small part of GOP America.

  243. turkle December 5, 2011 at 9:02 pm #

    “What America will starve from is a lack of diesel, fertilizer, herbicides – coupled to a big supply chain disruption or two.”
    Yeah, good point, prog. Though if Americans had to go “back to the land”, don’t you think we could grow massive amounts of food locally, in people’s yards or common spaces? This isn’t done now, because it isn’t needed. From what I’ve heard, a lot of Russians did this after the collapse of the USSR. And, also, we eat a lot of meat. Wouldn’t cutting back on this mean there was a lot more grains/corn available for direct consumption? I think there’s a lot of room to tighten the belt here without massive Ethiopian style famine occurring.
    I kind of think that if America starts seeing serious food supply problems, with our massive amount of arable land and (still) relatively low population density, that most of the rest of the world will likely have gone Mad Max some time ago.

  244. charliefoxtrot December 5, 2011 at 9:05 pm #

    i was referring to jim goad, whom you mistakenly called a white nationalist…at least as far as i could tell…as for grammar, fuck youself; style, it s mine, and beside the point, so fuck off; and i lived with more hate than you can comprehend (and every bit justified) til a year ago…so thankyou for having a nice day…

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  245. Buck Stud December 5, 2011 at 9:17 pm #

    Anyway…how can anyone take Ron Paul seriously at this point? I mean he just approved an ad that metaphorically blows up the Dept of Education?!
    Does Ron Paul even take himself seriously ?

  246. progress2conserve December 5, 2011 at 9:17 pm #

    “…if Americans had to go “back to the land”, don’t you think we could grow massive amounts of food locally, in people’s yards or common spaces?”
    -turkle-
    Good question, turk. And it’s the sort of question that a lot of people come drifting through CFN hoping to see debated – before leaving in “expressed?” disgust – over the racial/religious/never/ending/bull/shit/session – that CFN tends to become every week.
    To answer your question – growing stuff is not “hard” per se, but it takes some intelligence, a surprising number of supplies (seeds, mulches, etc.), and most of all – it takes KNOWLEDGE, built up over time – and then shared.
    I like to think that I could contribute to a knowledge base up here, where I live. I think TrippTicket, and a couple of other posters certainly could – where they live.
    But – It’d be a very local endeavor, and a very near thing, for a year or two – as far as putting enough calories on the tables – to keep things going.
    ==========================
    “I kind of think that if America starts seeing serious food supply problems, with our massive amount of arable land and (still) relatively low population density, that most of the rest of the world will likely have gone Mad Max some time ago.” -turkle-
    I hope you’re right, turk. I’m working hard on reducing immigration into the US, though – because you could be wrong. And we, in the US, won’t get a “do-over,” once things slide out of control.
    The continental US had something like 30 million inhabitants, prior to Columbus. We have over 10X that number now. Everyone needs to consider these numbers, as they think this through – and then, try to contribute to this discussion – on this “peak everything” website.

  247. charliefoxtrot December 5, 2011 at 9:27 pm #

    looking at the iran/ syria question, and reading some articles pointing out the sanctions (which amounts to blockade) and the chinese and russioan responses, i was struck by the realization that there is a ready-made war for the military industrial complex to shore up our economy- i mean their stock market- long enough for obama to be left holding the bag…which, btw, nobody really thinks the republicans want, not with occupy here, because if the military coup were to be staged with mewt romnich (not mine, though i wish!) In charge, that might drive republicans over to the drebel scahm (emporer palatine, i believe)…and they ll be needed for traitors, i mean prison guards

  248. progress2conserve December 5, 2011 at 9:28 pm #

    “Does Ron Paul even take himself seriously”
    I think he does, Buck. And I kind of like the ad. And – I hope Republicans in Iowa LOVE the ad.
    Remember – I’m in Georgia. So I’m looking ahead to the primary. Since there’s no point in voting Democratic, I gotta’ pick me a Republican.
    I’ve always liked Cain – he had a show on WSB, local here, that I listen to when I’m out in the ATL and trying to avoid traffic jams.
    And now we’re left with Mitt the Twitt.
    Or Newt – who should crawl back under a rock with the rest of the amphibians and newts.
    (Very, very, old Georgia joke, btw.)
    So I’m shifting my vote to Ron Paul.
    He make be unelectable or not, against Obamma.
    But at least he’ll shake things up a little bit.
    ———–
    And I’ve never met a grunt level teacher who did not think that blowing up the national DOEducation – was not a pretty good idea.

  249. IxNoMor December 5, 2011 at 9:37 pm #

    I was a hardcore enthusiast of the following blog for years, this past decade:
    http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal
    I read Communion back in 1991, and I was instantly convinced of *something* – not sure what that was, tho. Until, I witnessed what I saw, in August, 1992, on the southeast corner of the Hillsboro, OR airport. About 3-400 feet to the northwest, an irridescent orb, about 15-20 feet in diameter, appeared there, hovering like a dripping mirage. About 2 seconds later, some sort of lever-arm effect appeared to drop from its spherical plane to below the sphere, and it shot off at a 60′ angle southwest of the land surface plane, making no sound and leaving a shimmering mirage trail of *smoke*. In about 4 seconds, it was over 6 miles high, and out of sight. It was twilight/sunset time, completely clear sky, and the sun cast a shadow off the coastal range mountains (~15-20 miles away) about 1-2 miles high. The path through this shadow was evident, and happened within 2 seconds… (No, I never reported it to MUFON/etc – my sister was there and saw it *kinda*). Not sure if it was a manned or unmanned object…
    I’m convinced some humans are implanted with tracking devices – the lucky ones reject them somehow. The following was a killer book written by a NASA scientist, who collected UFO sightings over decades from colleagues:
    Paul R. Hill, Unconventional Flying Objects.
    Difficult reading – might be best to revisit some basic courses in EM field theory first…
    Not sure if any of you have listened to Gordon Cooper’s expose’ on his experiences, but they are sure eye-openers. Strange stuff.
    I suspect they are the *Ghadz*, who will merely spectate and *sample*, as they’ve always done. It seems strange that those who they might be most vested in, seem to have the most luck (certainly not a 3rd world African/Asian with a 1st grade education and no reading/writing skills)… Dark stuff!

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  250. charliefoxtrot December 5, 2011 at 9:43 pm #

    damn thankful my dad was a farmer, for as long as he could, and i learned some basics about growing…organic to some extent, too, which looks like a handier and handier thing these days…hm, he was a carpenter after that, so i learned quite a bit about building a house too now all i ll need is a defensible compound…whaddya know, i guess i ll see some of y all down The Road…just hold your hands where i can see em- preferably holding either something useful, or which demonstrates a skill we can use…cheers, clusterfuckers!

  251. mika. December 5, 2011 at 9:44 pm #

    I am shocked!
    PC, why this conversion? You were in the fascist imperialist camp for so long, what changed your mind?

  252. Buck Stud December 5, 2011 at 9:44 pm #

    ” Indians recognize quality. India has a long history of authentic spiritual masters, so recognition comes easily to them.”
    Do they? Please explain “authentic”? I see so many Guru’s making extraordinary claims after all. Osho asserts:
    “The more capable your mind becomes of concentration, the closer you come to the point of materialization…But try it first in very easy ways. For example: take a glass of water. Then float a very thin pin on the surface of oil or glycerin. Then concentrate on the pin. Concentrate! Without blinking , focus both your eyes on the pin for two minutes. After two minutes begin to order the pin to go to the right. Within seven days of practicing it, you will be able to move the pin.”
    You seem like a person with a scientific bent Asoka, so how about some extraordinary evidence to validate the above…you know, in the spirit of authentication?

  253. turkle December 5, 2011 at 10:04 pm #

    “Within seven days of practicing it, you will be able to move the pin.”
    Yeah, sure, and monkeys might fly out of my butt.

  254. charliefoxtrot December 5, 2011 at 10:14 pm #

    check out “the fourth kind”…

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  255. Ixnei December 5, 2011 at 10:14 pm #

    “As it is, you just barfed out a bunch of ad hominem attacks I could just as well hear on an episode of Hannity and Friends.”
    LOL! You summed that up so much more eloquently than I!

  256. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 10:17 pm #

    ProCon I am challenging you and Vlad and Turkle to stop your immigrant bashing.
    IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, it would be a national disaster. Here are some of my reasons:
    IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, businesses will lose workers. And businesses that rely on undocumented workers cannot bring in “legal” immigrant workers because the U.S. immigration system provides no lawful visas for workers essential to many parts of the U.S. economy. Disaster. We need immigrants. Businesses cannot survive without their workforce.
    IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, businesses will see fewer customers. Sales will go down by 60 percent in some parts of the USA. Disaster. We need immigrants.
    IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, key sectors of the USA economy will suffer irreparable damage. Food prices will go up. We won’t be able to rebuild after hurricanes and tornadoes without immigrants who work as roofers and construction workers.
    IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, the agriculture sector will experience major losses. More disaster. Already the USA is experiencing food insecurity and hunger is increasing. Those trends would increase without immigrants. Disaster.
    IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, the USA tourism industry will be threatened. Who can blame people not wanting to visit a place where they will be concerned about being hassled about their legal status? Whether it’s legitimate or not, that’s the message that will be seen by people who might come to a USA that is hostile toward immigrants.
    IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, the overall costs of doing business in the USA will be higher. Businesses will be required by law to use a costly and inaccurate electronic verification system, like E-Verify, to check whether prospective employees are authorized to work. And the cost of hiring and training new workers to replace the current experienced workers who would leave the USA would be another new cost of doing business.
    IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, new businesses will be cancelled. Businesses could decide not to locate projects or plants in the USA, especially from Hispanic countries like Spain. In Alabama this is already happening. BBVA Compass, owned by the Spanish megabank BBVA Group, is said to have cancelled plans for an $80 million tower in Birmingham for the bank’s U.S. headquarters. And state officials are reporting that Golden Dragon, a Chinese copper pipe manufacturer that had announced it planned to build a $100 million plant in Alabama, is having second thoughts.
    IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, the USA will lose taxpayers. The entire undocumented population is estimated to pay Billions of dollars annually in state and local taxes, including income taxes, property taxes, and sales taxes, this at a time when many cities and counties in the USA are on the brink of declaring bankruptcy. Disaster.
    IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, the costs of defending the anti-immigrant laws would be significant. The U.S. Department of Justice and several other state and national organizations have already sued the state of Alabama to prevent their new immigration law from going into effect. The federal district court and the 11th circuit court temporarily halted parts of the new Alabama law while they consider the significant legal and constitutional questions raised by Alabama’s broad new law. While the legal costs have not been tallied, the lessons from Arizona are instructive. In the first year alone, Arizona spent $1.9 million just to defend its own new law, S.B. 1070, in preliminary court cases. In Farmers Branch, Texas, and Hazelton, Pennsylvania, the costs of defending their own restrictive immigration laws are expected to top $5 million for each town. We cannot afford it. Trying to force ALL immigrants out would be a disaster.
    IF IMMIGRANTS LEAVE THE USA, the whole country would face new costs from an unfunded mandate. Forcing out immigrants would cause new economic losses, but unfunded mandates would also add to the country’s bill. New costs would come from the training required for all state law enforcement officials, the new data collection and reporting required of all public schools, and the additional work that all state, county, and municipal employees will have to do to verify the immigration status of every person seeking state services or doing business anywhere in the USA. Disaster. Aren’t we broke now? That is the mantra, anyway. Forcing out immigrants would be a disaster.
    Fortunately, none of you — ProCon, Vlad or Turkle — have any influence over immigration.
    Fortunately for me, immigration will continue unabated. I will do everything I can to get MORE IMMIGRANTS to come the USA and to make them feel welcome. (Easy for me, they are already my neighbors.)
    We need immigrants, for all the reasons I gave above.
    And history is on my side. This country was founded by immigrants. This country was built by immigrants. Immigrants have contributed culturally and economically. And immigrants are the future of this country.
    Soon you white “antis” will be a minority. I can’t wait. The future is multicultural. Diversity is strength. And we, the people of color, are winning the battle against morally-challenged white xenophobes like you.
    Join the Center for American Progress.
    http://www.americanprogress.org/aboutus

  257. Buck Stud December 5, 2011 at 10:18 pm #

    Did anyone read the below? Maybe the Obama administration is not really the the medical insurance industry “sell out” that Wage and other disgruntled(absolutists)leftists claim. Not if only the Affordable Health Care Act can clear the Supreme Court hurdle:
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/12/02/the-bomb-buried-in-obamacare-explodes-today-halleluja/2/

  258. Buck Stud December 5, 2011 at 10:23 pm #

    Here is the first page of that piece – providing it links;
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/12/02/the-bomb-buried-in-obamacare-explodes-today-halleluja/

  259. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 10:34 pm #

    BuckStud, I am not bringing up Osho and religion every week. You guys are. I am just responding.
    But instead of going into a long explanation of how to recognize authenticity, if you are really interested and not just playing “gotcha,” then read this book: http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/60074883

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  260. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 10:39 pm #

    Buck Stud, another book I just read last month that addresses authenticity is: http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/671541674 if you are really interested.

  261. Ixnei December 5, 2011 at 10:40 pm #

    “”The more capable your mind becomes of concentration, the closer you come to the point of materialization…But try it first in very easy ways. For example: take a glass of water. Then float a very thin pin on the surface of oil or glycerin. Then concentrate on the pin. Concentrate! Without blinking , focus both your eyes on the pin for two minutes. After two minutes begin to order the pin to go to the right. Within seven days of practicing it, you will be able to move the pin.””
    You know, that sounds so *Ghad* damned kewl, I might have to give it a try, for the next week or 52…

  262. Buck Stud December 5, 2011 at 10:57 pm #

    Ok Asoka. I thought I was just responding too, but I will refrain from mentioning Osho in a skeptical manner in the future after this post.
    As I mentioned last week: For me personally, Osho was best experienced via the written word. The Indian equivalent of a Joseph Campbell if you will. And where Campbell was content and humble enough to remain a brilliant scholar/philosopher, Osho drove down the road of Divine Leader in a Rolls Royce. I believe it was a wrong turn and a business decision.

  263. BeantownBill December 5, 2011 at 10:58 pm #

    Ix, you do realize that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, right? Assuming your honesty, I’ve no doubt you saw SOMETHING, but the Law of Parsimony (Occam’s Razor) states the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Many atmospheric phenomena could account for what you saw, as well as brain pattern-recognition functioning. Hinting that it was made by ET’s or some such is not likely.
    I’ll tell you, Ix, when someone brings indisputable proof of other-wordly visitations like a live alien being or when, metaphorically speaking, an alien spacecraft lands on the White House front lawn, I’ll be one of the first to embrace their existence.

  264. progress2conserve December 5, 2011 at 10:59 pm #

    “Fortunately, none of you — ProCon or Turkle — have any influence over immigration.”
    -asoka.-
    That was a rather long blah, blah, blah, wasn’t it turk. Asoka. is fixated on ECONOMIC GROWTH DUE TO IMMIGRANTS.
    And anyone who joins FAIR or NumbersUSA can have, potentially great, influence over reduction of immigration.
    On a Conservative, Republican, Chamber of Commerce website – asoka.’s mantra of Grow, Grow, Grow The Economy might be seen as a good thing.
    On a website built around a long hard look at environmental collapse due to peak everything.
    One could hope for more honesty – and less disingenuousness – among the recurrent posters. We’re not going to get anything like that from asoka., in his current incarnation, though.
    ===============================
    Now, we need Pangolin to tell us how important ethnic take-out food is to the future of America.
    And we need someone else to tell us that the United States must embrace a population of 600,000,000 – even to the point of causing Global human death and Global ecosystem collapse – – and our week on CFN will already be complete.
    And here it is, only Monday. ;-(
    Note to new posters –
    asoka. goes by various names:
    1.Resident impediment
    2. Old cut and paste
    3. The circling hawk of political correctness
    He can be amusing.
    But is best not taken seriously.
    Like Osho wanted to be.

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  265. turkle December 5, 2011 at 11:06 pm #

    Hey, soka, if immigration is such a great thing, let’s just assimilate the entire nation of Mexico. What could possibly go wrong?
    Or perhaps, if you like Mexicans so much, go live in their country for awhile illegally. Let’s see how long you last before they boot you out on your ass. Unlike you, they don’t believe in open borders for their own country. (Kind of ironic, huh?)

  266. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 11:15 pm #

    You seem like a person with a scientific bent Asoka, so how about some extraordinary evidence to validate the above…you know, in the spirit of authentication?

    You seem like an intelligent person, Buck Stud. Why don’t you use the scientific method, or do your own research, instead of asking me? All I would say is that there is much we do not yet understand. Over decades, consciousness research has accumulated evidence of the real and measureable existence of “spooky actions at a distance” — modes of telepathy, telekinesis, clairvoyance, and the like.
    More recently scientists have begun rigorous study of the effects of distant healing intention and prayer vis-a-vis nonhuman living systems and patients in clinical trials.
    A barrier to taking such work seriously may be the belief that it is fundamentally incompatible with the scientific world view. I suspect this is your case (and Turkle’s as well).
    Contemporary physics has generated a series of paradigms that can be used to make sense of, interpret, and explore “psi” and distant healing.
    I’m thinking here of paradigms related to relativity theory and quantum mechanics like the energetic transmission model, presuming the effects of conscious intention to be mediated by an as-yet-unknown energy signal. This could explain Osho’s little experiment (which I have not conducted myself).
    Another possible explanation is the model of path facilitation. As gravity, according to general relativity, “warps” space–time, easing certain pathways of movement, so may acts of consciousness have warping and facilitating effects on the fabric of the surrounding world.
    Or the model of nonlocal entanglement drawn from quantum mechanics. Perhaps people, like particles, can become entangled so they behave as one system with instantaneous and unmediated correlations across a distance. I have no idea which of these might explain Osho’s experiment. I am just suggesting there might be a scientific basis we do not yet fully understand or know how to control.
    Another model might involve actualization of potentials. The act of measurement in quantum mechanics collapses a probabilistic wave function into a single outcome. Perhaps conscious intention in Osho’s experiment can act similarly, helping to actualize one of a series of possibilities. I don’t know. Nor do I care. I have NEVER been interested in the supernatural or “miracles” or anything “paranormal” … I have enough to deal with in the “normal” world.
    If that was Osho’s thing (and you did not provide a source for that supposed Osho experiment), then that is his SVA DHARMA. I am free to pursue a different path, as Osho insisted when he initiated me into neosannyas.

  267. Ixnei December 5, 2011 at 11:24 pm #

    “Ix, you do realize that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof”
    I saw the B1 bomber in 1975 over Milwaukee, WI. I witnessed about 10 annual air shows at the Milwaukee airport from 1975-1990 I’ve lived next to the Hillsboro airport for the last 21 years, the sight of the annual Portland air show. I’ve seen virtually every type of known (US) aircraft come in and out of this airport – I’ve seen the B2 bomber on 4 different occasions.
    When you see something yourself, clear as day, and you’re familiar with the latest in aircraft technology – you know what you’ve seen is not *swamp gas*. Something with an invisibility shroud that appears irridescent/mirage-like. Something that travels 6+ miles straight up in 4 seconds, instantly, with over 100g’s acceleration in less than 0.5 seconds – well, I’m sure you can call that a cumulus cloud.
    But then, I’m sure you’re still convinced that somehow, Nagasaki and Hiroshima are very safe places to walk now (magikally – scrubbed by whom?). And, those sightings over Chernobyl had nothing to do with it being *safe* now. Finally, Fukushima, still in complete “China Syndrome” meltdown, is apparently no longer an issue. Ever spent a summer in Bikini Atoll (70 megatons+++)? They cleaned that area up as well…
    I suspect you have an implant in your ear cartilage, or in between your toes. And, I don’t suspect you will investigate NASA engineer Paul R. Hill’s book. Nor will you give an ounce of credence to Cooper’s testimony (ON RECORD).

  268. progress2conserve December 5, 2011 at 11:26 pm #

    I do wish asoka. would give citatations.
    “As gravity, according to general relativity, “warps” space–time, easing certain pathways of movement, so may acts of consciousness have warping and facilitating effects on the fabric of the surrounding world….”
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16296928
    Let us all make note that this is a “.gov” website.
    And it must, of course, be peer-reviewed.

  269. Buck Stud December 5, 2011 at 11:28 pm #

    Prog,
    Don’t get me wrong, I thought it was a good ad considering the audience he is targeting (that is not a shot at you; just a general observation). But I did find the evoking of military tactics ironic, considering that Paul laments U.S. military expansion.
    There’s a lot of things I like about Ron Paul; he is on the right side of many issues. But as that ad reveals, Paul’s approach is fundamentally one of destruction: Destruction of government institutions, social safety nets, etc. Paul seeks to tear down societal structures and leave the rest to the mythological ethos of the Libertarian manifesto. I am not that faithful in human nature.

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  270. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 11:30 pm #

    LOL!
    Turkle, I live within minutes of the border with Mexico. I am very happy on this side of the border, to serve as a welcoming committee.
    Sorry if you think you are losing your country. That is just the way it is. Accept reality. I think our country is being enriched by the immigrants I help get here. And I am enjoying the richness.

  271. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 11:33 pm #

    ProCon, the article you cite is from the National Library of Medicine database. They don’t include articles from journals that are not peer-reviewed.

  272. Ixnei December 5, 2011 at 11:39 pm #

    Total k00k quackery conspiracy theory here now!
    We are merely rats in a cage. A lower life form, which is being *monitored* from the outside. Data is sampled/collected, and the need for data is apparently very strong (AI simulation?). Any distress to the system that we rats inhabit is corrected, so data analysis can continue uninterrupted. Certain rats are more vested than others, so they must be kept alive for further analysis.
    Get it? *Ghad* cares for the elderly in high places…

  273. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 11:41 pm #

    He can be amusing.
    But is best not taken seriously.
    Like Osho wanted to be.
    ================
    You have a citation for that assertion, ProCon?
    You know nothing about Osho. He was completely against seriousness. If you are interested in what Osho said about seriousness:
    http://www.osho.com/library/online-library-playfulness-serious-totally-5e70b296-d61.aspx

  274. progress2conserve December 5, 2011 at 11:44 pm #

    “Paul seeks to tear down societal structures and leave the rest to the mythological ethos of the Libertarian manifesto”
    -buck-
    I don’t disagree with anything in this post, buck.
    (and keep in mind that I’m a life-long liberal, so a “shot at me” misses the mark. hehe)
    Two very relevant ideas, though:
    1. Ron Paul is “playing to the base,” here. With some skill. It’s better than Romney saying he was for health care before he was against it. Or better than Gingrich “not having serially monogamous sex with that(those) women.” or whatever – DAMN, wish I was a comedian!
    (you cannot make this shit up!!)
    2. Ron Paul, if elected, WILL NOT single handedly GUT all of the non- libertarian positions of the United States Government. Certainly not over the objections of 535? Congresspeople and Lord-only-knows-how-many bureaucrats and lobbyists.
    ===================
    I think it’s way past time to shake things up.
    Obama has demonstrated that he will NOT do it.
    Romney won’t do it.
    Gingrich will only f*ck it up worse.
    That leaves Ron Paul.
    He’s got my vote in the primary.
    And probably in the general election.

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  275. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 11:51 pm #

    I think it’s way past time to shake things up.
    =================
    I agree, ProCon. As long as the shaking being done does not involve any kind of violence.
    You may have to write in Ron Paul’s name because I don’t think it will be printed on the ballot.

  276. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 11:53 pm #

    CORRECTION
    I agree, ProCon. As long as the shaking being done does not involve any kind of violence or forced deportation of immigrants.

  277. progress2conserve December 5, 2011 at 11:54 pm #

    “He can be amusing.
    But is best not taken seriously.
    Like Osho wanted to be.” (..not taken seriously.)
    -asoka-
    Read it again asoka..
    You’re missing something.
    Read it again.
    I’m trying to help you out, here, asoka..
    You’re a joke. You have achieved your goal.
    Just like osho.
    I’m offering confirmation – for CFN posters.
    It’s time for you to move to a higher plane.

  278. Ixnei December 5, 2011 at 11:55 pm #

    “check out “the fourth kind”…”
    I actually saw that a while ago – the whole thing was fake. I suspected as much, while I watched it – none of the video was live/real. NONE OF IT.
    I get so sick of the hateful/vengeful aliens plot line. If these aliens are real (and they may have even been born here on Earth or Mars 100+ million years ago), their technology would be so far superior to ours, that they wouldn’t need to spend 50-100 years plotting for the right time to *attack*. GIMME A BREAK.
    We are the rats in the maze, and they are the scientists. It’s really that simple, and the proof is in the *pudding*.
    Oh and for the religious fanatical dipshits who believe in *GOD*: Pray.

  279. asoka. December 5, 2011 at 11:58 pm #

    My apologies. Thanks for making it clear. And thank you for the compliment. I have indeed succeeded in becoming a joke unto myself. And I am having fun. Puritans hate that.

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  280. Buck Stud December 6, 2011 at 12:01 am #

    “If that was Osho’s thing (and you did not provide a source for that supposed Osho experiment)”
    Asoka,
    It was in “The Unknown Life Of Jesus” that I posted the other day. Despite my criticisms of assertions here and there, the overall piece is very interesting and entertaining. Basically, Osho claims that Jesus did not die on the cross, that he was a trained Yogi who possessed extraordinary control over body functions like respiration and was thus able to feign death. He then skipped off back to India and lived to a very ripe old age.

  281. turkle December 6, 2011 at 12:03 am #

    So let me get this straight, soka. The unemployment rate is 9% and 15% for construction workers, and much higher in certain demographics, notably teenagers and twenty somethings and blacks, and you want MORE immigration? Don’t you think that the millions of people out of work in this country deserve to get a fair shot at a job instead of competing with more illegal immigrant Mexican peasants willing to work for sub-par wages? Or do you figure, screw the people that are already here?

  282. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 12:03 am #

    It’s time for you to move to a higher plane.
    =================
    I like the planes I use.
    Usually Southwest Air or Continental. 🙂

  283. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 12:10 am #

    Buck Stud, that one I can verify. I went to Kashmir, to Srinagar, and asked to be taken to Jesus’ tomb. Dude was shorter than I imagined.
    But Jesus lived to a ripe old age and died in Kashmir. Crucifixion was a cruel and lengthy way to die which took up to 24 hours. Jesus was taken down after a few hours. He was still alive. They put him in a tomb, then when they went back for him, he had already split for Kashmir. The tomb was empty.
    If you are interested, here is a book about it: http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/3307681

  284. Eleuthero December 6, 2011 at 12:10 am #

    I see the chief merit of Ron Paul as his insistence in auditing the Fed. The chance of it happening? Zero. The Fed has been lying through their teeth and JHK exposed the biggest of all the lies recently i.e., that TARP was TEN TIMES bigger than their $800 billion quote.
    Even agencies like the Fed, which, in the past, were supposed to be very august, stern agencies, are a passel of crooks and liars. How can we expect our younger generations to toe a line of virtue when assholes like Bernanke, Corzine, Paulson, and Dimon seem to be faring to well?
    E.

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  285. turkle December 6, 2011 at 12:13 am #

    There were 10 or more different financial bailout programs, and TARP was only one. The rabbit hole goes deep. From what I’ve read, the actual total of grants and loans to financial institutions could be upwards of $15 trillion. Who really knows though?

  286. Ixnei December 6, 2011 at 12:14 am #

    Wouldn’t it be such a sad state of affairs, to admit we are merely rats in their experimental cage? What would that mean? What does that say we’d have to *admit*…
    What would it also say, about their lack of interference, except in the most extreme circumstances? I’m still totally curious about what’s bubbling to the center of the earth from Fukushima…
    You and your buddha. Lulz! Praise be to buddha!!!
    FWIW, I am going to try bending that pin suspended in oil – and if it works – OH JOY!!!

  287. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 12:25 am #

    Everybody physically here who has the ability to do the work deserves a “fair shot” at employment including undocumented immigrants. No one should be excluded. There is plenty of work to do and the corporations are sitting on Trillions of dollars, but they are not hiring because they say there is not enough demand. Hey! Demand. More immigrants would be the solution.

  288. ront December 6, 2011 at 12:53 am #

    You are not mistaken, Asoka. I have a 40 year association with Meher Baba.

  289. turkle December 6, 2011 at 1:01 am #

    There is plenty of work to do yet unemployment is almost 10%….hm, something about those two statements doesn’t go together.

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  290. IxNoMor December 6, 2011 at 1:17 am #

    “There is plenty of work to do yet unemployment is almost 10%….hm, something about those two statements doesn’t go together.”
    Aint that the *byotch*. We are all but *worker bees*. Whether we want to believe it or not, *they* are watching, and they are there only to *COLLECT DATA*.
    *They* will only interfere, in extreme circumstances – ala Hiroshima/Nagasaki/Chernobyl/Bikini Atoll/Fukushima.
    If’n you are uld-skul, don’t even try the *suicide* route! You are but a rat in this cage – they need your data…
    How do *YOU* define *freedom*? Is it that axe in your back? Or is it you conformity? You are nothing but a *metric*.

  291. anti soak December 6, 2011 at 1:23 am #

    What about His mystical Word?

  292. IxNoMor December 6, 2011 at 1:29 am #

    “Get it? *Ghad* cares for the elderly in high places…”
    No, they don’t get it, *AT ALL*.

  293. IxNoMor December 6, 2011 at 1:30 am #

    There you go, Soker! That’s how you do the sock-puppet *THANG*.

  294. charliefoxtrot December 6, 2011 at 1:44 am #

    dang, that tinfoil hat is just a little tight there, y all, maybe you could try an armodillo helmet…re that movie, i was skeptical until i saw the woman s interview after the fact; that was the scaredest human being i ve ever seen…that was NOT acting sir, not by a long shot…and what makes you think the footage was fake? i thought over all it was pretty convincing, even if the premise is hard to accept…

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  295. IxNoMor December 6, 2011 at 1:44 am #

    Soker needs some time to reminisce (sp) with his longitude! Poor guy all caught up in his own fate!!! Bigtime *FAIL*!!!

  296. IxNoMor December 6, 2011 at 1:45 am #

    Sorry, I felt for that guy!

  297. IxNoMor December 6, 2011 at 1:47 am #

    CFT – you are not … LOL!!! Lulz!!! Bwahahaha!!!!

  298. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 2:23 am #

    Like so many who have been absued, you just seek to pass on the pain to others. I have nothing to do with it – so knock it off.
    What’s wrong with Whites having their own Country like the Founders wanted?

  299. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 2:27 am #

    Perhaps we Whites are their Sons. As the Bible said “The Sons of God found the Daughters of Man fair”. We do have something unearthly about us – at least some of us. And we are hated by those merely of the Earth.

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  300. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 2:38 am #

    I like his work with the Masts. I myself am a mast like Salik.
    Charles Bukowski dated and I believe married a Baba Lover. He refered to the huge poster that read “Don’t Worry, Be Happy” in his book Women. He called Meher, Drayer Baba.

  301. charliefoxtrot December 6, 2011 at 3:01 am #

    what s wrong with people having a planet? and that is downright chickenshit of you to try to deflect like that we already know you re a piss-poor example, but is that the best you can come up with? really?! if you can t tell, i ve been trying to offer you a perspective to use to heal the poison of separatism and hate because it is stupid sure i ve cursed at you, because i ve little patience for racism; if you wouldn t utter such simple-minded drivel, i m sure i could extend to you the courtesy i ve demonstrated already elsewhere…in fact, instead of inflicting, i have spent my life absorbing other s pain; i am a healer…thing is, i can t in good conscience just allow you to just blindly post such blatantly obnoxious lies without challenge, or i would be remiss in trying to save my world from the destruction that you and those like you (yes, vlad, your kind) are, inadvertantly or not, inviting upon us all in your ignorance

  302. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 3:02 am #

    Did the Heaven’s Gate people make it back to the Mothership sans bodies – or was that a mistake?
    I met them once. They hated all the care the body needed. They felt that the Earth or as they called it “the garden” had been fucked with by bad aliens. They thought a person should be able to just eat an apple and be fine for the whole day.

  303. charliefoxtrot December 6, 2011 at 3:04 am #

    ?not what- and what s so funny?

  304. turkle December 6, 2011 at 3:06 am #

    Vlad just can’t get over the fact that it is 2011 and not 1789 and that black people don’t count as 3/5 of a person anymore. Sucks to be him, I guess.

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  305. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 3:08 am #

    What is racism? At its best, it’s just the natural love for one’s own people – prefering them over others as a Parent prefers their own children ot others. Blacks, East Asians, and South Asians all love their own more than others. Why shouldn’t we have this same basic human right? You haven’t thought it thru.
    I was speaking losely before. Goad’s book lead me to real White Nationalism. It was a step for me. You are right: He himself wasn’t – at least not at that point. Don’t know about now. I don’t think so though. I read one by him over at Taki Mag recently. He does still seem to think Whites are getting a really bad deal – just like Fred Reed does. So he’s a friend of our’s at least.

  306. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 3:14 am #

    Big French Revolution fan, eh? They’re bringing back the guilotine I hear – you’re going to have alot of fun watching the heads roll on TV. Dale will get to watch it in person.

  307. xhalor December 6, 2011 at 5:09 am #

    asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka asoka
    thanks andy

  308. Nikolaz December 6, 2011 at 5:37 am #

    Don’t worry, there are many VERY intelligent people out there who are VERY capable of running a country (far more so than the current band of morons), but who do not have a voice or access to billions of bucks to waste on a political campaign. There will be no end to the world or history etc, but we will look back on this bullshit as we do all of the other failed civilizations, with shame and shock.

  309. xhalor December 6, 2011 at 5:42 am #

    Look Dude. It’s really pretty simple. You can either have a bunch of bag men for campaign contributions, or you can create a culture where working at a car wash is the first step in the brotherhood.

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  310. xhalor December 6, 2011 at 6:02 am #

    INTERMISSION
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b6rm5yTx44

  311. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 6:17 am #

    TRANSLATION
    I got mine. Y’all stay the hell out.

  312. xhalor December 6, 2011 at 6:32 am #

    Don’t make me wrap up in a …flag. It only heightens my perception of the inane.

  313. lbendet December 6, 2011 at 8:02 am #

    Re: Ron Paul
    Seriously, we are like someone who’s been sleeping for over 30 years and failed to see that someone bound us up with a rope and now we can’t move.
    Over 30 years of corporatism stopping us from being as innovative as we might have been in all areas of function.
    Over 30 yeas of no regulation all the time, moving toward institutional lawlessness. Catherine Austin Fitts describes how deliberate it is that people in government who were trying to do their job were fired and threatened.
    Over 30 years of bad trade deals called “free market and trade economy” that are anything but. Another Orweillian spin.
    The Fed who was managing interest rates down to create a housing bubble and now bails out international banks to the tune of Multi-trillions!–The consequences are that the people are going to have everything they paid for in taxes gutted—everything but more war and privatized contractors who for national security purposes, you will never know how much they are getting—Oh, and to make matters worse they are the American Stasi! Your tax dollars at work.
    The Repugnacan’ts now want to gut education. Is it because schcools teach evolution, or is their ideology tells them that everything public must be made private? Along with gutting education, they want a new source of slave labor–your kids! And they’ll fire the adults who now hold the jobs.
    Listen to what Newt says, he’s letting you know where this thing wants to go. Now tell me if we can compete with the rest of the world.
    With the number of things I’ve mentioned, let me know if you think one man can compete against an international apparatus that is so far gone, that even if we wanted to step this back, we have international trade treaties that we would be breaking.
    I was listening to Ratigan yesterday and he was talking about our public works initiative to renovate the San Fransisco bridge. We will be hiring 3000 Chinese to make the steel. They don’t have experience doing this nor the engineering know-how, but they will get the job.
    Now I ask you, What made America great? We did it all and all manufacturing we did paid for other related industry–we were once great, but the free trade thing for the top 1% of our CEO’s are destroying our wealth.
    Wealth destruction for the first world is moving forward. Don’t think Ron Paul is going to change this.

  314. charliefoxtrot December 6, 2011 at 8:37 am #

    you re ignoring the point, surprise surprise, that different race s is a construct- different appearances are just that- appearances…and that focusing your attention on those differences is keeping you from seeing the real situation, that we as humans have been divided and oppressed by a group of psychopaths into essentially slaves…now think about that, vlad, and what it means in real terms in your own life…it matters not that we are paid a pittance, if what we do for that subsistence is furthering the control of our lives and home: it amounts to the same situation slaves in name have found themselves in throughout history, black or white…hating the guy at the oar next to you prohibits you from seeing that there is only one chain binding us all to the bench…and that chain of hate can be broken with love and understanding…i urge you to read the manifesto again, with an open mind this time, and pay attention to the part about labels and scapegoats…if you get it, you will feel your minor irritation at “them niggers” turn to a real and abiding anger at THEM BASTARDS who have lied to and about, and decieved you, me, and 99% of everyone else…

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  315. progress2conserve December 6, 2011 at 8:59 am #

    I’ve been trying to find a good balanced news feed.
    Can’t find one.
    Although, setting my Google news to “Australia” is the best I’ve found, so far.
    At least it screens out Sports/Sports and Kardashian/Entertainment – that’s US-centric.
    Maybe you have to go around to the other side of the world to try to get a perspective on things.
    Or maybe the Aussies are just smarter than us.
    But not that much. Because here’s a news item.
    About a man with a little business and a local wife – living in the Philippines.
    http://www.smh.com.au/national/gunfire-heard-as-australian-teacher-was-snatched-in-the-philippines-20111206-1oh89.html
    Those New Age Philippine Muslims –
    What lovely Beings of Light.
    HAH! hah
    Yeah – more diversity will solve US problems. not.

  316. charliefoxtrot December 6, 2011 at 9:03 am #

    Wow! thanks for the link, i had heard nothing of this…no wonder the conservative nutjobs have been calling it “obamacare”- more like ‘obamascare’! i ll admit i didn t really have much of a dog in the fight, as i ll never be able to afford health insurance myself…at least not to the extent i d like, being a drastically under-employed construction worker by trade…but damn, this almost gives me some of that ‘hope’ everybody s been talking about…shee-it, talk about your stealth legislation!

  317. messianicdruid December 6, 2011 at 9:23 am #

    “The United States is awash in gasoline. So much so, in fact, that the country is exporting a record amount of it.
    The country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration.
    That is about twice the amount at the start of the year, and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.”
    http://www.ksat.com/money/Gasoline-The-new-big-U-S-export/-/2602640/4876032/-/pnqktt/-/index.html

  318. Eleuthero December 6, 2011 at 9:25 am #

    Turkle said:
    There were 10 or more different financial bailout programs, and TARP was only one. The rabbit hole goes deep. From what I’ve read, the actual total of grants and loans to financial institutions could be upwards of $15 trillion. Who really knows though?
    ***************************************************************
    I claim it’s the Second Dark Ages because, as JHK says, the rule of law is so broken down that NONE of these crooks will ever see a day of jail time and are eating pheasant under glass and lobster thermador while ordinary people are being HOUNDED by the IRS and mortgage bankers for amounts that are a pittance compared to the looting by financiers.
    It’s like the entire WORLD is now a boiler room scam.
    E.

  319. charliefoxtrot December 6, 2011 at 9:28 am #

    …experts and industry insiders say [you re fucked; no job and no money for basics] will continue…

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  320. Eleuthero December 6, 2011 at 9:30 am #

    LB said:
    Wealth destruction for the first world is moving forward. Don’t think Ron Paul is going to change this.
    ************************************************************
    I agree. Paul would be stonewalled by BOTH parties because with PAC money electing and running our government, anyone opposed to the Mo’ Money party will either never get any legislation passed or will be ASSASSINATED. Sigh.
    E.

  321. lbendet December 6, 2011 at 9:35 am #

    E.
    You’re so right about the boiler room global economy and yes, the gravy tastes so good there’s no way it’s going to change and there’s no way the congress is going to police itself about the issue of insider trading–it’s crazy to think it will.
    About RP–not only his agenda would be assassinated.
    NOTE TO CFNers.
    Great post on oftwominds.con yesterday Charles Hugh Smith telling the Europeans that their choice is clear: debt peonage for decades or let the banks fall.
    [It’s your choice, Europe; choose wisely. If you want a model for sanity and growth, look to Iceland. They renounced their unpayable debts and debt-serfdom, and let the market reprice their currency, debt and risk. The nightmare is past for them; they chose wisely. Now it’s your turn to choose.
    The debt-serfdom will fall to you, not the banks or your Elites.]

  322. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 9:37 am #

    CFT, before you get too excited, this is still an Obama giveaway to private corporate health care.
    80% or 85% toward health care is a joke. It is still less efficient than government health care like the Veterans’ Administration and Medicare. Overhead for Medicare is 3%. Private health insurance can’t come near that. Big government is da bomb!
    Overhead in the individual market is often substantially higher than 20%, and in some cases above 30%. Private insurance overhead and profit, on average, fluctuates between 12% and 14% nationally. This figure is somewhat lower than the 16-20% at many of the big insurers because it includes self-insured plans of many big employers that have overhead of about 6-7%. Bigger is better when it comes to insurance pools, which is why WE SHOULD ALL HAVE MEDICARE FROM BIRTH ON.

  323. k-dog December 6, 2011 at 9:39 am #

    BeantownBill and charliefoxtrot. Elizabeth Warren, no worries I’m a fan. With a Volcano vaporizer in the oval office you can consider the war on drugs over. My green party will be a lot more fun.
    I’ve really no problem with Jill Stein and the greens except that I’m concerned they don’t have the stones to get the job done. One has to break eggs to make an omelet, hence my candidacy.
    Fish or cut bait. A president needs to do serious fishin. Defending the constitution should never be a passive job. We don’t want any pussies for president, we already have one of those.

  324. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 9:47 am #

    k-dog said: “One has to break eggs to make an omelet, hence my candidacy.”
    —————-
    So, do you have the stones to debate Jill Stein? Just say the word, and I can start work on setting up that debate. What part of the country would be most convenient for you, k-dog?

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  325. messianicdruid December 6, 2011 at 9:50 am #

    “Wealth destruction for the first world is moving forward. Don’t think Ron Paul is going to change this.”
    He is sure not going to be able to do it alone.

  326. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 9:54 am #

    E. said: “anyone opposed to the Mo’ Money party will either never get any legislation passed or will be ASSASSINATED. Sigh.”
    =================
    Of the current crop of presidential candidates, only two have been threatened with assassination: Obama and Cain. Obama was actually shot at. What do those two candidates have in common, different from the others?
    Speaking of Cain, he had a campaign appearance yesterday in Tulsa, two days after “suspending” his campaign.

    “For those that wondered about the decision, it was really pretty simple, folks,” he said. “Family is first. Family first. It wasn’t that I didn’t want to fight, because I am still going to fight. I am just going to fight a different way.” He said his spirit to change Washington, D.C., has been ignited.

  327. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 9:59 am #

    CORRECTION
    Speaking of Cain, he had a campaign appearance yesterday in Oklahoma City

  328. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 10:02 am #

    He is sure not going to be able to do it alone.
    ====================
    Not wealth destruction, but he will achieve health destruction. He has already voted against health care bills for children, for senior citizens, and for veterans.

  329. progress2conserve December 6, 2011 at 10:06 am #

    “Of the current crop of presidential candidates, only two have been threatened with assassination: Obama and Cain. Obama was actually shot at. What do those two candidates have in common, different from the others?”
    -asoka., to E-
    Let’s see, the US has had 4 presidents assassinated, none were black. Plus, it’s unlikely that only Cain and Obama are the ONLY ones of the current crop to have death threats against them.
    Death threats – sadly – are quite common against people in the US, especially against those in public life.
    Asoka. does demonstrate to CFN that he can still find new notes – on his One String Guitar of Racial Grievance, though.

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  330. progress2conserve December 6, 2011 at 10:16 am #

    “Wealth destruction for the first world is moving forward. Don’t think Ron Paul is going to change this.” -lbend-
    With all due respect, what’s your alternative, Lbend?
    At least Ron Paul would make some noise and try to do the right things. And a president has the pulpit to make a LOT of noise.
    I don’t see Obama, Romney, or Gingrich as even trying to do the right things.
    ————————-
    It’s interesting that Gingrich is moving up rapidly in the polls, now. What that says about Republican primary voters is not flattering.

  331. lbendet December 6, 2011 at 10:27 am #

    With all due respect P2C,
    I don’t think RP has all the answers at all. He is also against the public sector and thinks that if you don’t have the money for health ins. you too should die. Not quite sure what he thinks of our trade agreements and the top ceos making money on the trade imbalances and currency manipulations.
    He’s good at calling out the machinations for unending war, privatized contracting and the FED.
    Those are good discussions to have.

  332. lbendet December 6, 2011 at 10:31 am #

    ps. RE: Newt:
    The Republican party is lost. They have an unworkable ideology and they are too extreme. They better start educating themselves before we are taken to 3rd world status.
    Gingrich is so bad that Joe Scarborough is warning is viewers about this nut-case! Get ready for a real civics war-civil war if this guy gets in.

  333. progress2conserve December 6, 2011 at 10:36 am #

    “PC, why this conversion? You were in the fascist imperialist camp for so long, what changed your mind?” -mika-
    You’re going to have to elaborate on this Mika.
    —————–
    Now – if Ron Paul comes out railing against the Vatican – I will publicly begin to sing your praises as the great all-knowing and all-seeing Mika.

  334. messianicdruid December 6, 2011 at 10:38 am #

    “Not wealth destruction, but he will achieve health destruction.”
    I guess you would prefer Newt, a big goverment advocate, like yourself. He has no interest shrinking the size of government. He is part of the problem. He helped repeal Glass Steagall, He was for the TARP bailouts. He is for illegal wars for Israeli and torture. He is for the patriot act and carbon taxes. He stands for everything UN-American. He does not stand for individual liberty. He call for open border and not enforcing immigration laws. The only way he can surge in the polls is try to talk like Ron Paul. Newt is no Ron Paul and he is definitely not Thomas Jefferson. Newt does not talk about shrinking the size of government or eliminating the IRS. He only talks about tweaking the system but not reducing the size and power of big centralized goverment.

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  335. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 10:45 am #

    Asoka. does demonstrate to CFN that he can still find new notes – on his One String Guitar of Racial Grievance, though.
    ======================
    I will destroy my one string guitar of racial grievance, smash it and squirt lighter fluid on it and burn it, never to be used again, if you will destroy your one-string immigration guitar. Deal?

  336. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 10:49 am #

    Well, yes, Newt would be my candidate of choice against Stein.
    But I do want to wait and hear what Pelosi has to say about Newt. Pelosi investigated Newt for a year before Newt was reprimanded, forced out of congress and made to pay a $300,000 fine.

  337. progress2conserve December 6, 2011 at 10:53 am #

    “With all due respect P2C,
    I don’t think RP has all the answers at all.”
    -lbend-
    I actually do have a lot of respect for you and your ideas, lbend.
    But Ratigan and Martenson aren’t on the ballot.
    So, my question are:
    1. What do we do about it?
    2. Who do we vote for who has a shot?
    3. If I’m buying what you’re selling – then how do we move the discussion forward?
    4. What’s the harm of trying to get Ron Paul in there for a term? And again, who or what is a better alternative to RP?

  338. Widespreadpanic7 December 6, 2011 at 10:54 am #

    Osho? Osho? Osho?
    Who the f–k id Osho?
    I consider myself pretty well read and never came across a character named Oho!
    A sci-fi protagonist?
    One of these bullshitters with a rag on his head and long beard, sitting crosslegged, espousing some bullshit Eastern Religion to gullible and naive white college students, at the same time imploring them to write him (OSHO) a sizeable check?
    Somebody please enlighten me about ‘Osho”
    On a different matter, it looks like the price Brent Crude and ‘ordinary’ crude is about to converge at about $105.00 per barrel. Is there any significance to that? Or doesn’t it matter?
    –WSP7

  339. dale December 6, 2011 at 10:57 am #

    Asoka – how do you stand on my proposal to cede Hawaii to Japan?
    ————————————-
    CHARLIE DON’T SURF!

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  340. messianicdruid December 6, 2011 at 11:01 am #

    “If I’m buying what you’re selling – then how do we move the discussion forward?”
    If I might intercede – renounce loudly the idea that *RP is unelectable* that is being fed to all of you by the very system that He is trying, almost single-handedly to restore.

  341. dale December 6, 2011 at 11:02 am #

    be careful or Vlad will accuse you of mixing up the first letters of your name.

  342. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 11:03 am #

    Ron Paul is a slippery eel. He has a website, the “Daily Paul,” that says it is inspired by Ron Paul, but it has this fine print: “Content on the Daily Paul is the opinion of the original poster, not necessarily of the Daily Paul, its owner, moderators or Ron Paul.” That is one way to get your ideas out without taking any personal responsibility for them.
    Anyway, on the Daily Paul is this:
    Vatican Calls for ‘Central World Bank’ to Be Set Up

    The Vatican called on Monday for the establishment of a “global public authority” and a “central world bank” to rule over financial institutions that have become outdated and often ineffective in dealing fairly with crises.

    Seems Ron Paul might not be in favor of such Vatican activity. Any day now we could hear Ron Paul rail against the Vatican, if he has the courage of his convictions.
    I doubt it, though. He is just another Republican politician, voting 83% of the time with the Republican majority.

  343. dale December 6, 2011 at 11:05 am #

    I agree. Paul would be stonewalled by BOTH parties because with PAC money electing and running our government, anyone opposed to the Mo’ Money party will either never get any legislation passed or will be ASSASSINATED. Sigh.
    ————————————-
    See there! I knew you could find that dark cloud. Don’t worry about it, you’ll probably get cancer anyway.

  344. progress2conserve December 6, 2011 at 11:05 am #

    “I will destroy my one string guitar of racial grievance, smash it and squirt lighter fluid on it and burn it,” -asoka.-
    Go ahead, a. You are the cosmic joke, not me.
    “We need negative population growth in the United States.” -asoka.-

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  345. Widespreadpanic7 December 6, 2011 at 11:06 am #

    Hey Asoka I understand Nancy Pelosi herself is under investigation for sweetheart deals with her mutl-millionaire husband, along with Maxine Water, Charles Rangel and the rest of that congressional, hypocritical, democrat scum.
    –WSP7

  346. ozone December 6, 2011 at 11:08 am #

    LB and E. (and a select few others),
    Thanks for bringing us back around to the topic o’ the week!
    (The distractionary bullshittery on this blog is getting thicker and deeper with each passing week. I believe it’s because the times are getting more dire and we’re being discouraged from thinking critically in those directions. It’s damn nearly an exact parallel; ain’t that interesting? Is this truly a “dangerous” blog in some eyes and minds? I fuggin’ hope so, ’cause we’re gonna be having it out, one way or another. The only way out is through. BTW, I wouldn’t worry overmuch about the laddie and his ilk. I’ve had some poking around done, and these “people” are so knee-jerk that they’re gonna be the first froggies to jump to their “agenda” when the disgruntling coalesces. Know what that makes them? Easy targets; ’nuff said.)

  347. dale December 6, 2011 at 11:12 am #

    Big French Revolution fan, eh? They’re bringing back the guilotine I hear – you’re going to have alot of fun watching the heads roll on TV. Dale will get to watch it in person.
    ———————————
    Aiii…Yeahhhhh! He flicks the blood from his Katana as he momentarily admires the hamon.
    Oppps….now you went and activated my 16th century samurai warrior fantasy.

  348. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 11:12 am #

    WSP7, nobody knows who Osho is. He lived during the time of Ronald Reagan. You’ve heard of Reagan?
    Well, Osho told a lot of jokes about Reagan:
    http://www.oshojokes.net/osho_jokes_ronaldreagan.htm
    I was with Osho from 1982 until his death in 1990. Never asked for a check or a cash donation. Gave me some money though.

  349. dale December 6, 2011 at 11:13 am #

    was with Osho from 1982 until his death in 1990. Never asked for a check or a cash donation. Gave me some money though.
    ————————————-
    Well….that explains why you were hanging around anyway.

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  350. dale December 6, 2011 at 11:14 am #

    Gotta go…just can’t take ya’ll seriously this morning.

  351. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 11:24 am #

    Procon said: “We need negative population growth in the United States.” -asoka.-
    =================
    CORRECTION
    “We need negative GLOBAL population growth.” -asoka.-

  352. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 11:26 am #

    That and the jokes and laughter.

  353. wagelaborer December 6, 2011 at 11:26 am #

    Thanks for the link, prog. I’m glad that someone is paying drug addicts to sterilize themselves.
    It’s a start.
    Many years ago, two stray cats came and had litters at my house. Afterwards, I took them both and had them fixed, and then let them go again.
    It’s hard enough to be a stray without having babies to care for, but I didn’t want to take them to a pound and have them killed.
    I honestly don’t care if someone chooses to be a drug addict or an alcoholic. It’s a free country. (Sarcasm alert).
    But don’t bring kids into the world if you’re an addict.
    On the other hand, when I worked in the nursery in San Jose during the 80s, when the CIA was pouring cocaine into the US, many babies were taken from their mothers who weren’t drug addicts.
    It was very wrong.
    There was a belief that taking cocaine would put you into labor, much like taking castor oil in an earlier generation. No one ever got their baby taken from them for drinking castor oil, though.
    It only happened in the poor part of town, though. When I went and worked per diem in the rich part, they didn’t do the drug testing on the newborns.

  354. ozone December 6, 2011 at 11:27 am #

    Absalom,
    Hey, don’t blame ME. ;o)
    Seriously though, when I saw that blithering fucking idiot being prep’ed for prez’dint in 1999, the alarm bells (and I mean ALL of ’em) went off, big-time. I ain’t been right since, I tells ya!
    My frayed psyche now [specifically] searches out views that contradict the official narrative, and “the way it really is” often resides somewhere between the extremes. (Sometimes it IS opposite of officialdom, but I remind myself that it’s MY OPINION that puts such a heavy slant on things, and all the “facts” would, collectively, point to something of a lot more subtlety.)
    I also thank those here for their considered opinion and links to thoughtful treatises on our predicaments. (The rest o’ yez kin shit in yer hat and wear it. ;o)
    Ps. K-dawg for Supreme Emperor! (Soon as I get that pin spinnin’, I’ll simply “make it so”.)

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  355. wagelaborer December 6, 2011 at 11:29 am #

    There are people here who insist on believing the official conspiracy theory, CFT, but I am one of those who refuses to swallow such utter nonsense.
    So don’t worry, you’re not alone.

  356. k-dog December 6, 2011 at 11:30 am #

    So, do you have the stones to debate Jill Stein?
    Yes
    Just say the word, and I can start work on setting up that debate.
    As we actually agree on principle but mostly differ in approach I think a friendly radio talk show chat would be more appropriate for the two of us.
    The advantage of k-dog is that he is not a politician. I’m just somebody with sufficient brainpower (the bar being rather low you know) who would take the job really seriously and spend his four years getting most everybody happy and moving in a good direction and that’s it.
    I never concerned myself with this before but……… Hang on a minute I’m walking down to the stream.
    k-dog looks at reflection.
    I’m some kind of Border Collie mix, will that do?
    What part of the country would be most convenient for you, k-dog?
    Cascadia

  357. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 11:31 am #

    Ozone said: “The only way out is through.”
    ================
    Well said, ozone. But you put too much fucking importance on physical survival, especially considering in a hundred year we all be dead anyway!
    Nothing special about this planet, like I said earlier this week. Now NASA gone and discovered a new planet, 72 degrees, with water.

    A newly discovered planet is eerily similar to Earth and is sitting outside our solar system in what seems to be the ideal place for life, except for one hitch. It’s a bit too big.
    The planet is smack in the middle of what astronomers call the Goldilocks zone, that hard to find place that’s not too hot, not too cold, where water, which is essential for life, doesn’t freeze or boil. And it has a shopping mall-like surface temperature of near 72 degrees, scientists say.

    These are not the only two planets with perfect temperature ranges and water for life. We just haven’t found the others yet.

  358. wagelaborer December 6, 2011 at 11:34 am #

    Yeah, yeah. Did you have to walk 3 miles in the snow to get there, also?
    People are always complaining that the younger generation has it better than they did.
    Don’t worry, this generation is screwed, as you point out later in your bipolar post.
    Personally, I’m not happy about it.

  359. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 11:39 am #

    k-dog said: Cascadia
    =================
    Would 1090 AM KPTK Seattle be OK? It’s located in the Queen Anne neighborhood on Dexter.

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  360. wagelaborer December 6, 2011 at 11:39 am #

    You must not know any young people, ixnomor.
    I know NO young person who isn’t struggling to make a living and pay the rent. McMansions? What are you talking about?
    As for my son, I pointed out that I was against him buying a car, but he works in an industrial park with no housing nearby.
    So he paid cash for a used car.

  361. k-dog December 6, 2011 at 11:47 am #

    1000 Dexter Avenue North, Suite 100
    I live 17 miles away from there, works for me.

  362. wagelaborer December 6, 2011 at 11:52 am #

    Look what happened to Mexico when they let American settlers live there. They up and took half the country.
    Or did you not know that Texas, California, Arizona and New Mexico used to be Mexico?

  363. wagelaborer December 6, 2011 at 11:58 am #

    Seriously, Buck? You really think that a provision which cuts into the profits of insurance companies is going to somehow lead to single payer health care?
    Guess what? On the ground, in the actual health care for-profit industry? They are instituting speed-ups and firings.
    I am an absolutist on many things. I don’t think that reforming the worst excesses of capitalism works.
    But now you’re talking about my job. So I am paying attention. And the Health Insurance Enrichment Act is No Child Left Behind, for hospitals.

  364. ozone December 6, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    LOL!
    Good deal.
    Now let’s just see how much pull this [professional] contrarian, greasily narcissistic pud-gazer has got! (Amongst all the other lies, bloviations and self-aggrandizement.)
    I don’t think there’ll be much breath bated in waiting for [honest] results. I can’t quite think of a good reason why she’d travel all the way there from Lexington, MA, but I’d bet you’d get better results from asking her yourself, rather than have a follower of multiple cults be the go-between. ;o)

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  365. mika. December 6, 2011 at 12:07 pm #

    Important update:
    “The ICM Registry has decided to open up the web and has made the .XXX domain available to all.
    Domain names are available on a (snigger) first come, first served basis and there are approximately 100,000 domains which have gone live.”
    😀

  366. wagelaborer December 6, 2011 at 12:07 pm #

    I’m all for voting for Ron Paul in the primaries, so that Obama has to face an anti-war, pro-civil liberties candidate.
    But in the general election? That’s just crazy!
    Vote for Jill Stein in the general election.
    She’s anti-war, pro civil-liberties and pro-environment.
    Plus, she’s for legalizing marijuana.

  367. wagelaborer December 6, 2011 at 12:21 pm #

    You may have missed this Keiser report, lbendet.
    Iceland did good in refusing the bank bailouts, but those sneaky bastards have a way of escaping justice.
    http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/episode-218-max-keiser/

  368. lbendet December 6, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    In a world of no laws, those blood-suckers will always win. It’s set-up whre they can never lose. That’s why the Reps sound so idiotic when they espouse the “free mahhhhket”.
    And speaking of Keiser….
    Corzine didn’t break any laws. I repeat, did not break any laws…
    He’s actually a very nice fellow according to someone on Facebook today(no friend of mine).
    OK, so Keiser’s guest, Josh Brown of the ReformedBroker.com tells the tales of the newest ponzi schemes for the social media and internet stock options. Get ready for Facebook and Goupon….
    They also discuss Corzine:
    So Corzine was godfathered–I mean grandfathered into a position to run MF Global without an updated license, see.
    He didn’t break any laws, see.
    There was a loophole in place where clients funds could be co-mingled with the company’s, see.
    What are you going to do about it if you lost money, like Celente, see….

  369. WestCoast December 6, 2011 at 12:29 pm #

    Asoka,
    As far as population growth and jobless Americans being submerged in a sea of illegals, see this:
    Democrats Dare Not “Abandon” the White Working Class. RealClearPolitics
    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/12/links-12611.html

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  370. rippedthunder December 6, 2011 at 12:35 pm #

    The score now stands at Corn Borers 1- Monsanto 0
    http://wamu.org/news/11/12/05/insects_find_crack_in_biotech_corns_armor
    I guess the wizards at Monsanto forgot to take evolution into account.

  371. tegmark December 6, 2011 at 12:36 pm #

    Neutrino Speed Solved.
    Use a scissor to have an idea. Look at the intersection between the two blades, that intersection moves, even though it appears that no particle is associated with it (the relationship moves), but in particle physics, particles being waves, an imaginary intersection or angle becomes a real particle.
    Take 2 sheets of paper and slide them across each other (over each other) at a constant velocity “V1”, if the angles “A” at the borders of the sheets is 90 degrees, the intersection between the 2 borders, the intersection itself “S” has a velocity of zero. If you change the angle between the 2 sheets and make it different from 90 degrees, the intersection will move as the 2 sheets slide across each other; in other words the intersection will move at a related but different constant velocity “V2”. The faster the 2 sheets of paper move, slide across each other, the faster the velocity of the the intersection “S” between the 2 sheets moves.
    So if you move the 2 sheets at a fast enough velocity “V1” but less than the velocity of light and the angle “A” between the 2 sheets is small enough, the velocity “V2” of the intersection “S” will move faster than light.
    Since the neutrino is probably just the intersection between 2 wave fronts colliding at a given angle (or something similar), hence the neutrino goes faster than light.
    —————- | —– /
    —————- | —- /
    — V1 ——-> | — /
    —————- | — /
    —————- | – /
    —————- | /
    S is here —–> S
    V2 is the velocity of S as it moves up.
    So the neutrino speed is faster than light, it is solved.

  372. tegmark December 6, 2011 at 12:37 pm #

    Wrong tab, the single object called the Neutrino does go faster than light, it is the intersection between 2 wave fronts, and this intersection becomes a real object, a real particle in particle physics. It is not an artifact, it is the discovery that faster than light particles do exist, and in fact by changing the angle between the pieces of paper (akin to the blades of a scissor) and the speed the two pieces of paper slide across each other, you can have in infinite number of possible velocities faster than light, nay, you can have any velocity, just make the papers slide very fast and the angle between them very small and follow the intersection.
    So this intersection is a geometrical relationship, but this becomes real matter since in quantum mechanics and particle physics, particles are both waves and point like, they are both real and virtual, and most of all, the “it is the bit”, only the information is real, the relationships are real, the particles and mass and all else are just a proxy, a description of ghosts, only the Information is Matter, Mass Energy is Information revealed, observed, condensed into real entities.
    Only Information and Information Relationships exist, all else is a fairy tale.

  373. tegmark December 6, 2011 at 12:37 pm #

    And more so, it is not limited to neutrinos only but to all particles and all wave fields: any collision between two wavefronts creates a “soliton”, or a standing wave that can go faster than light by any degree. Heck just think of all of the electromagnetic waves that are colliding all at different angles, all the wavefronts at different angles, all creating solitons and standing waves and crest waves as in the two waves adding up at certain points and traveling along the intersection and go faster than light, nay, even much faster.
    So hence, the doors into time travel, both into the past and into the future are also open. Have a nice trip.
    So, as with all correct and elegant theories, this discovery also Solves the Time Travel Problem, as it is 100 % possible now with this discovery.
    nameta9
    Philosopher
    Posts: 1141
    Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

  374. tegmark December 6, 2011 at 12:38 pm #

    I won’t develop a full theory (who on earth is capable anyways ?), but you can imagine that the sliding pieces of paper could also be sliding monolithic slabs of geometry in space creating particles. Time travel through the relativity theories I guess. Anyways some good physicist could create a full blown coherent theory maybe…

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  375. tegmark December 6, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    ChristianOverman wrote:… just like the Innuit assupmed the northern lights were spirits, but could predict their behavior off their mythology damn well….. doesn’t make it right, just accurate in terms of being useful. We have a useful science, but not necessarily a correct one.
    But that is all we have and all we will ever have: theories, formulas, narratives, instruments, languages, etc. that are ALL ACCURATE IN TERMS OF BEING USEFUL. EXACTLY.
    Science, nay, all of our constructions are always and only within a system of “Intentionality of Use”, of what we will do with the theories, ideas, whatever. And most theories simply serve the function of creating other newer theories, are simply a narrative upon itself in an imaginary world that never ends, maybe even only simply to pass time, as something to let time pass.
    There is no “right”, no absolute “correct”: there is no view from “nowhere”, there is only our subjectivity, and our arbitrary design that designs all else, no matter how hard we try to fool ourselves into thinking we are “objective”….

  376. tegmark December 6, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    The laws of physics are a function of the observer: the design of the observer determines the design of the laws of physics. The design of the observer reflects the design of the laws of physics. The laws of physics only make sense to a given arbitrary observer and no other different kind of observer. How does the world look for an ant ? what are the “laws of physics” for an ant ? what are the laws of physics for a skyscraper ? How does the world look to that combination of matter ? (Imagining that they can observe the world somehow) and so on, how is the world with a modifed brain containing a car engine at full throttle, or how does the world appear, and what laws of physics does the observer use/discover if it is an Atom Bomb exploding (imagining the connections, if only instantaneously, that allow information processing given that maybe 10-40 seconds could be an hour for the Atom bomb brain).
    And so the view fom “nowhere” would have to be a linear combination of every conceivable observer, designed in every conceivable way, a combinational explosion. And even then, the view would always be partial: a brain of an ant plus that of an Atom Bomb is different from a brain of a car engine plus a skyscraper (only using 2 examples of brains, observers). So which is the real – “objective” brain ? there is none, they are all arbitrary, the laws of physics are arbitrary.
    With regards to:
    “You have to remember, the mathematics they used was largely developed back during the times of older, inferior theories- and it seems highly ineffectual to recognizing ‘truth’ or ‘not truth’ beyond it has a pretty mnemonic aesthetics and makes the mathematician excitable when they look at the new formula. ” “Most of us here can’t do the math.”
    Also, mathematics is greatly overrated in physics: the three body problem has no analytical solution (an equation having a precise formula as a solution and not a numerical approximation), and almost all problems in physics must be performed numerically on supercomputers executing billions of operations a second: the very fact that we can only approximate the solutions with billions of calculations is a declaration of defeat for the entire model of mathematics in physics, if even only partially.
    The formulas and symbols, the sequence of symbols is a one to one correspondence between relationships, mostly imagined and invented, but some somewhat true, so if you want even more abstract relationships, just invent even more indirect references,like the square root of the square root with no number inside, the manipulation of words mathematically but with unknown meanings etc. like space plus the square root of entity minus void, etc.

  377. k-dog December 6, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    If my campaign takes off there are so many smart people I get to talk to I’ll have to start a list.
    I hope something happens.
    k-dog pants

  378. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

    So White don’t have the right to continue to exist?
    What Bastards are you talking about – just the Whites ones who have betrayed us? Or also the Jewish ones who brought the Black Slaves here? Or the Black ones who are killing Whites in South Africa? (Go to genocide watch, don’t bother with Amnesty International – they’re globo scum now).
    Now why aren’t the American Blacks, who are supposedly so against Black slavery, interested in ending Black slavery in Africa? Is it because it’s not Whites to blame? Now Charlie, slow down and think: is that very nice? To be anti-White instead of being pro-Black? Kind of a negative approach to life, eh?
    Your paradigm of all the good people in the world being against the Rich White Bastards is simply Communist Propaganda. It’s terribly dangerous since all the other Peoples are not turning agains their Elite – just our’s. And “our” Elite aren’t – they’re in on it too. It’s universal disarmament: White Elites bad, therefore flood White Nations with 3rd Worlders. What? What kind of sense does that make? That doesn’t punish them, but us.
    In terms of American Blacks: Liberals and Blacks are talking apples and oranges with each other. You get together with them at rallies and talk about Peace and Love but what they hear is Black Empowerment. That’s not the same thing. I hope you understand at least that much.

  379. tegmark December 6, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

    Anyways asoka is right, the same doomster predictions over and over, like a flat tire: we are goin to mars, the world is becoming richer everyday, black friday sold billions, get over it and hate nature.
    The Atom Bomb brain stuff was from:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177441
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177509
    Where is my noble prize ?

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  380. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 12:44 pm #

    Great! Yes, that’s the place. Jill is in California right now, but she does not need to be physically in Seattle. The whole thing can be done via telephone interview with a conference call involving you, Jill, and the KPTK person.
    Ozone is right that I should not be the intermediary. You are going to have to prove you have stones and do the following: contact the Jill Stein campaign at this web site:
    http://www.jillstein.org/volunteerdetail
    Scroll down to “Other ideas” and explain you are a presidential candidate and you want to debate Jill on KPTK in Seattle. Once you have done that and get a positive reply we can contact KPTK. Let me know. Jill is a nominee to become the Green Party candidate and will be glad to have the publicity.

  381. wagelaborer December 6, 2011 at 12:45 pm #

    Wow! I’m watching Democracy Now, and the US is accusing Russia of rigged elections.
    There is no end to the straight-faced hypocrisy of Hilary Clinton, Barack Obama, and the rest of the slimy gang of top-feeders in the US government.
    AND- Amy Goodman is reporting with a straight face that “mass” demonstrations” of 5,000 people led to 300 arrests.
    So the United States, after an in-your-face stolen election in 2000, switched to computerized voting machines, to which there is no recount possible. Still, in 2004, the exit polls showed that this election, also, was stolen. Until they were changed to reflect the announced results.
    No problem, the US talking heads promptly announced that exit polls were unreliable, against all previous evidence.
    Then, 2 weeks later, they announced that exit polls were gold standard, and that the election in the Ukraine had been stolen. No reference was made to the statements made two weeks earlier. They were far down the memory hole.
    The exit poll problem was dealt with by stopping the announcement of exit polls.
    The US is now dealing with Occupy Movements, thousands of people coming together to protest the outrageous economic inequality in the US.
    They are met with thousands of riot police, heavily armed and violent at times. Protestors have been beaten, arrested, and their private property destroyed.
    Now the US political class has the unmitigated gall to pontificate about the Russian election!!!
    While we sit and argue about possible Republican candidates for the job of top Puppet of the US ruling class, the ground is being laid for WW3.
    War, as George Bush pointed out, is the best way for the US to get out of the economic predicament it’s in.
    And shame on Amy Goodman, for regurgitating the US line. I was disgusted by the way she parroted the US line on Libya, where the US and NATO, along with their Al Queada allies, bombed the hell out of civilians, attacking water and food supplies, bombing hospitals, laying siege to a city, and brutally murdering thousands of people, including the leader. The infrastructure and civil society of that country was destroyed, just like that of Yugoslavia and Iraq.
    The US calls this “bringing democracy”.
    And people can look at our rigged elections, our imperious government, our impoverished people, our overflowing prisons, and our heavily armed police state, to see what democracy means to Americans.

  382. progress2conserve December 6, 2011 at 12:51 pm #

    This Fred’s for you, wage.
    http://www.fredoneverything.net/Gates.shtml
    “Intelligence” agencies are moral dirt, hated the world over for torture, murder, and destabilization of countries leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths. The KGB, Mossad, CIA, STASI, SAVAK—they’re all the same. A man who presides over torture and murder should not speak of decency. He has none.”
    -fred reed-
    Gates is gone, but the parade continues.

  383. k-dog December 6, 2011 at 12:54 pm #

    What? You arrange it but I do all the arranging how does this work?
    How is anybody supposed to know who I am without an introduction unless they read CFN. This is not about having the stones. You need to pony up Asoka I’ll call the station when I know they are expecting my call.

  384. k-dog December 6, 2011 at 12:55 pm #

    BT resistance, it was only a matter of time. Michael Pollan warned about this in ‘The Botany of Desire’ I’ll be looking to him to help make agriculture sustainable. Currently it’s not.

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  385. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 12:58 pm #

    Yet you want Amnesty – probaby what Mika is praising you for. You’ve gone full circle back to where you were before – see the power of the Media? Close your eyes and ears – just watch what comes up. You don’t need the Media outside, they’re inside you now.
    Check this out: a tiny Church voted to ban interacial marriage by a vote of 9 to 6. This is international news. THAT’s the story – not national but international. Do you see how seriously the world takes wiping out Whites? Do you think if a Church in Africa made a similar decison about Blacks and Chinese that it would get similar coverage?http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2069738/Gulnare-Free-Will-Baptist-Church-forced-throw-ban-interracial-couples.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
    I gave an inch last week about the skin heads and you want off on a tear and tried to take a yard by raving about “hate” and Amren etc. Classic Liberal Enemy behavior. None of our rights mean anything if we can’t hate. The Elite want to get inside our heads and judge us. They have no such right yet you grant it to them.
    You may be unhappy to know that one of the Amren Presenters, Dr Yeagley, also know as Bad Eagle, has won a settlement against one of the chief thugs, an ex policeman involved in all kinds of anti White activities, sinister to the max.
    Anti Racism is just a code word for Anti White.

  386. wagelaborer December 6, 2011 at 1:01 pm #

    Powerful writing, prog, thank you. Yeah, what he said! To cynically use the misery of the wounded to stop the public from the truth is despicable.
    It isn’t just the D corporate party that oozes hypocrisy and lies, of course. The R’s are just as bad. It’s just that we are now nominally ruled by the D’s.
    It is more and more apparent that you MUST be a sociopath to serve in the top executive, legislative or judicial branches of government, or work in the media.

  387. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 1:03 pm #

    Ummm, if you cannot arrange a simple radio interview without my help … well, then maybe the presidency is a bit of an overreach?

  388. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    As W was always telling us… being president is “hard work” … you sure you’re up to this?

  389. wagelaborer December 6, 2011 at 1:05 pm #

    When Occupiers are trampled, beaten, pepper-spayed and arrested, and their personal property destroyed, we are told that it is because of health and safety concerns.
    The Black Friday incidents, juxtaposed against the ongoing Occupy movements, exposed that common excuse as the farce that it is.
    Although Black Friday has a recent history of violence and a trampling death, no move was made to stop people from camping out on private property for days, (potentially blocking entrances). There were no squadrons of riot police sent to beat and pepper spray campers. New incidents of violence this year produced no calls for banning of Black Friday next year.
    And I can guarantee, if such calls were made, that there would be unanimous opposition from the talking heads, from Fox on down. We would hear a lot of talk about freedom, freedom to choose risk, and freedom in general. Black Friday shoppers would be compared to those at Valley Forge and the Freedom Riders. The numbers trampled to death, shot or stabbed, would be favorably compared with the numbers not trampled to death, shot or stabbed.

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  390. k-dog December 6, 2011 at 1:06 pm #

    Yeah, telling you to do what you said you were going to do is hard work. I agree.

  391. wagelaborer December 6, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    And not only would WW3 reset the economy, distract from tyranny, and decrease the population, nuclear winter would cancel out global warming.
    Yep. It’s on.

  392. ABSALOM December 6, 2011 at 1:11 pm #

    Ozone,
    I’ve voted for president twice now, and after the latest disaster and my new found big-picture perspective, I know it doesn’t make one bit of difference who sits in the oval office. All you get is just a different PR image with the new face. I’m astonished that anyone with a brain still thinks in terms of partisan ideology. I’m also sort of puzzled why Ron Paul is on the tip of a few tongues. I don’t see that he as any chance at nomination, let alone the big seat. I think Ron Paul knows that too, but he like every other politician I’ve seen has some sort of hero complex. His ideas are pretty short sighted anyhow.
    Right now, I only look for the domino effect leading to either a real war with countries capable of striking here, and/or, some huge economic event that brings the structure to it’s knees. Considering JHK’s and others recognition that the likes of Corzine will never meet justice, and the Fed will just continue to shuffle fake money to disappear economic collapse, WW III seems the only logical eventuality.
    Shitty,
    ABSALOM

  393. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 1:13 pm #

    Gure Teg Bahadur was tortured and ultimately put to death for refusing to accept Islam. This only stiffened the resolve ofthe Sikhs to fight. If not for Muslim oppression, Sikhism probably wouldn’t have become a group aspiring for Nation hood, but rather a Brotherhood like the Sufis.

  394. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 1:13 pm #

    Tegmark said: “Anyways asoka is right, the same doomster predictions over and over…”
    ============
    Of course I am right. I am just introducing contrarian facts and information to keep ’em honest.
    Reading about how bad things are, or imagining that things are worse than we can even imagine … that is the way CFN entertains itself. There is no harm in it. It is all just divine play. A cosmic joke.

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  395. k-dog December 6, 2011 at 1:14 pm #

    A competent chief executive would see to it that any fields of Monsanto genetically modified corn now growing be destroyed immediately before the BT resistant corn borer population can get a foothold.
    Obama done anything yet?

  396. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 1:16 pm #

    Vlad, you are a bit late to the party. We were discussing the 21st century.
    Teg Bahadur lived from 1621 to 1675.

  397. wagelaborer December 6, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

    Yes, Obama has done something.
    One of his many Monsanto appointees approved GMO alfalfa.
    Is there a list of how many Goldman Sachs and how many Monsanto employees Obama has? Which contributed more people to the Obama administration?
    Inquiring minds want to know.

  398. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

    The Occupy Movement is responsible for several deaths – will you try to tell the Truth now and then? Tea Party: zero. You people have learned nothing from the 60’s. You lost the people then thru your radicalism and hatred, and you’ve done it again.
    And you expect us to trust you so you can set up your People’s Courts? And with your White Men to the back of the line? And all the hand signals are just So gay.

  399. k-dog December 6, 2011 at 1:21 pm #

    World War Three would only cancel out global warming for three years and that’s not good enough. As president I would take war off the table as a solution to any of the nation’s problems. Besides not being a good deal war is just plain wrong.

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  400. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 1:21 pm #

    Yep. It’s on
    ==============
    Do you think they will start it in December? Remember how Nixon bombed civilian population centers at Christmas, when people were distracted opening their presents? Or do you think they will time it more in tune with the election cycle in 2012? We are just puppets they don’t care about. Millions are going to die. The internet may go away. It will be more terrible than we can imagine.

  401. jackieblue2u December 6, 2011 at 1:21 pm #

    Certain ‘groups’ large ones, and not so bright ones, are living a story line. and it ends with
    armageddon. they are creating it, and want it to happen. makes then ‘right’.
    who knows.

  402. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 1:22 pm #

    Show me where the Muslims have repented for this deed – or all the other crimes against the Sikhs?
    Religion of Peace? Dude what is wrong with you?

  403. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    k-dog, now I know you are not a serious candidate. You cannot announce ahead of time that you are taking war off the table. You some kind of pacifist? What do you mean war is just plain wrong? What about Hitler? What about the evil jihadists that Mika has warned us about? What about the evil Blacks Vlad has told us about and the terrorists, and the immigrants ProCon is always warning us about. It is a dangerous world. You cannot take anything off the table… unless you, like Cain, are just doing this as performance art.

  404. k-dog December 6, 2011 at 1:26 pm #

    Oh Gawwwwd no, he’s got Monsanto appointees????
    Then give the man four more years and the embalming fluid industry is going to be in serious trouble.

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  405. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    I can show you five hundred apologies, five hundred statements from Muslim organizations and Imams condemning violence. Violence is antithetical to Islam because Islam is a religion of peace. Anyone committing violence is not a Muslim. Here is just one example of an apology:
    http://shevarim.com/2011/08/10/pakistani-muslim-leaders-apologize-for-anti-christian-violence/

  406. k-dog December 6, 2011 at 1:30 pm #

    I can take war off the table without taking defense off the table, by jingo.
    As to being a serious candidate I’ll be as serious as people want me to be. Give this dog his day and I’ll use it well.

  407. wagelaborer December 6, 2011 at 1:30 pm #

    I admit that I can’t really guess what they have in mind.
    They are more evil than I can imagine.
    One of my favorite sayings is, No matter how cynical I get, I just can’t keep up.

  408. dale December 6, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

    Turkle,
    You ever listen to that thing with Alan Wallace?

  409. jackieblue2u December 6, 2011 at 1:45 pm #

    “Money is Everything.”
    I know someone who believes this wholeheartedly.
    and he doesn’t share. Or spend. But has it.
    I don’t really understand about Money.
    But it can’t be Everything.
    I suppose it is if you don’t have much.

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  410. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 1:45 pm #

    Wage, the amount of suffering they cause is incalculable … and it just seems to be increasing. You are doing what you can in the workplace, through your protests, your radio station, and voting Green Party. Still, at times, when faced with so much evil the Dorothy Day/Daniel Berrigan/Henry David Thoreau questions comes up: what are you doing out of jail? The OWS and 350.org are examples of mass civil disobedience, of willingly going to jail because that is the best way to provide testimony against the evil of the regime. I have always admired the Quakers in that way and many of my Quaker friends have gone to jail for their simple practice of SPEAKING TRUTH TO POWER including several friends who simply refused to become part of the military during WWII. There were many pacifists who were imprisoned during both WWI and WWII. What will we do during WWIII to make our statement against war?

  411. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 1:53 pm #

    Wage, you know I am nonviolent and have been all my life. I was a CO during Vietnam. I do not believe killing people is a solution. So I don’t share the sentiment of an email I recently received because I will have nothing to do with guns or bullets. But I thought I would share it with you since you are in health care:
    “So you’re a sick senior citizen and the government says there is no nursing home available for you, what do you do?
    Our plan gives anyone 65 years or older a gun and 4 bullets. You are allowed to shoot four Congressmen.
    Of course, this means you will be sent to prison where you will get three meals a day, a roof over your head, central heating, air conditioning and all the health care you need! Need new teeth? No problem. Need glasses? That’s great. Need a new hip, knees, kidney, lungs or heart? They’re all covered. And, as an added bonus, your kids can come and visit you as often as they do now.
    And who will be paying for all of this? It’s the same government that just told you that you they cannot afford for you to go into a home.
    Plus, because you are a prisoner, you don’t have to pay any income taxes anymore.
    Is this a great country or what?”

  412. lbendet December 6, 2011 at 1:59 pm #

    Well, The Great Game is on. Russia is arming Syria and China is backing Iran. It’s the same old proxy war we had during the Cold war when we were all arming the Middle East–nothing like 3rd world countries armed in contemporary warfare.
    I think there are disparate aims involved here to make certain people happy, but ultimately it is a disaster capitalistic paradigm no matter how it ends up.
    Oh and don’t forget the oil, now.
    A small coterie owning all the world’s wealth and resources.–not so interested in governing as I’ve said before.

  413. ABSALOM December 6, 2011 at 2:00 pm #

    Your vote counts!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efKguI0NFek
    A little levity for fellow CFNers today.
    ABSALOM

  414. k-dog December 6, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    ABS, that was a good spot. Too bad the great one is not with us anymore. According to him I’m supposed to be at the mall buying shoes with blinking lights on them right now. I’d better get going.

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  415. ABSALOM December 6, 2011 at 2:16 pm #

    Here’s another dog. Before you run to the mall.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OnWnwwxNPA&feature=related
    ABS

  416. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 2:56 pm #

    Cosmic Evil at work: S1867 will enable the goverment to detain Americans on American soil indefinitely. Drafted in secret by Levin an McCain, it turns America into part of the “battlefield” in the war against “terror”. Their words not mind.
    http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/senators-demand-military-lock-american-citizens-battlefield-they-define-being

  417. messianicdruid December 6, 2011 at 3:35 pm #

    O’Rielly is saying its a three way race, but RP will not get the nomination.
    Without RP supporters Barry will win again just as last time because Paul advocates will not compromise by picking evil.
    How many here will admit that they secretly want RP to make a third-party move and give the office back to O?

  418. progress2conserve December 6, 2011 at 3:57 pm #

    “How many here will admit that they secretly want RP to make a third-party move and give the office back to O?” -md-
    Not me, MD. I hate to see Paul take the blame for that. I suspect BO is going to win, anyway – no matter what we do. And from the tenor of the times, at least on CFN – even if RP beat BO in the general election – those Deibold Machines would just give the thing to BO The Corporatist, anyway.
    BO’s probably marginally better than Gingrich and probably no worse than Romney, IMO.
    And the idea that RP will single-handedly take the country back to 1900’s Constitutional Standards – is pretty bizarre.
    I say give RP the chance. But that’s just me.
    On issues that matter – all of them say they want to secure the border. And BO’s deporting more immigrants than BushII every thought about deporting.

  419. rippedthunder December 6, 2011 at 4:00 pm #

    I know I know, cars are evil. But what a waste of engineering. I admit I would love to rip up the road in one of these cars. Silly Japanese, super cars are for grown-ups! ;o)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAtelRZCFWc

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  420. turkle December 6, 2011 at 4:20 pm #

    “BO’s probably marginally better than Gingrich”
    Marginally?

  421. Widespreadpanic7 December 6, 2011 at 4:40 pm #

    I’ve been hearing about Ron Paul for about 30 years now. He reminds me of William Jennings Bryant, a pacifist democrat who ran for president (and lost) at least 5 times. His foreign policy was very similar to Paul’s: run away, give up, surrender! Bryant was Wilson’s secretary of state and finally resigned when, after much provocation, Wilson brought us into the war against Germany. NKorea, Russia, Iran (to name just a few) would have a field day with a character like Paul. I’d even rather have Obama as President than Paul. At least Obama is willing to engage to outside world, the world beyond our borders.
    –WSP7

  422. Widespreadpanic7 December 6, 2011 at 4:42 pm #

    I should say “to engage the outside world”

  423. progress2conserve December 6, 2011 at 4:43 pm #

    “Yet you want Amnesty – probaby what Mika is praising you for.” -vlad-
    Nope. I suspect Mika is “praising” me for supporting Ron Paul. And Vlad, you’re getting as bad as asoka. – for reading minds and telling other posters what they believe.
    I believe Mika is a little too interested in American political trivia for a genuine Israeli National – I’m not sure he’s Jewish, either. He DOES hate the Vatican, though.
    ———————–
    And I don’t “want” amnesty, Vlad. But I can think in the real world. You’re never going to get blanket deportation of illegals.
    Eventually, though, LEGAL immigration numbers into the US will be reduced. It’s inevitable, if you look forward enough years.
    Probably, even, before the Sun expands into a Red Giant and cooks the Earth. Nobody is going to want to come here, then.

  424. trippticket December 6, 2011 at 4:49 pm #

    Howdy, Clusterfuckers!
    Long time no see. And I’m missin’ you folks. Been reading a lot though. Finished Ianto Evans’ book “The Hand-Sculpted House,” and I can’t recommend it highly enough. Now I’m plowing through John Michael Greer’s latest offering, “The Wealth of Nature: Economics as if Survival Mattered,” and I have to say that this is a must-read for everyone here. He very elegantly answers several of the questions that pop up regularly around these hallowed halls. Exceptional. And fairly inexpensive too.
    While you’re waiting for your copy to arrive via the soon-to-be gutted USPS, however, feel free to take a gander at my latest offering at Small Batch Garden:
    http://www.smallbatchgarden.blogspot.com/
    It’s called “All About the Trend,” and speaks about the best ways I’ve figured out in the last four years for adapting to a world of declining concentrated energy. Not merely WHAT to do, it makes an attempt at sharing HOW to go about doing it, how humans can make sweeping changes in their lives, and make them stick.
    Hope you cats enjoy it.
    Namaste,
    Tripp

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  425. Eleuthero December 6, 2011 at 4:50 pm #

    Excellent stuff from C H Smith but, honestly, I don’t even hear the wonderfully shrill voices of Kucinich or Sanders on the latest central banker follies. At some point, the few voices out there feel BEATEN DOWN by decades of ignorance. You have to have the persistence of Sisyphus to fight these people … actually we need an ARMY of Sisyphean people to CONSTANTLY harang the government, especially their local representative to make an inch of progress.
    Personally, I’ve been UNDERWHELMED by the amount of righteous indignation in the last week on this site about the latest bank machinations while, right under their feet, they and their neighbors are being hounded for pittances by banks and the IRS. It seems like the bulk of recent posts (with wonderful exceptions) are non sequiturs about particle physics, New Age theology, or the “battle of the races” which seems an irrelevancy when you see how many young White kids are trying to “out-ghetto” each other.
    On the Internet, the bad definitely drives out the good because of Eleuthero’s revised “Law of Large Numbers” i.e., “In a Dark Age, an initial above-average collective must devolve as their numbers grow larger”. Recently, I’ve been contemplating another one of my multi-week disappearances until, say, New Year’s Day.
    I only visit now to see if you, Ozone, Bill, or a few other people have weighed in. However, you need a magnifying glass to find the jewels in the haystack.
    E.

  426. myrtlemay December 6, 2011 at 4:58 pm #

    So which poison will it be in 2012? Ron Paul, Newt, Romney? Spoke with a relative over the phone last night and he informed me that his son, who is a paranoid schitzophrenic, is now in a psychiatric hospital due to his taking photographs on private property of a military base. Ironically, what pushed him over the edge was that this time he had been smoking weed. Apparently it (pot) does something to the brain’s chemicals that increase the symptoms of schitzophrenia (sp?).
    About now I’m wondering if I’m not afflicted with it as well. After reading Denninger today, as well as Elaine Supkis’ blog, I’ve been wondering what the PTB have in store for us: Inflating what little money we have out of existence, WWIII, what with all of the “lecturing” we’re giving to China, Russia, Iran, etc. Will we see some new Hitler type rise among the ash heap, challenging us to kill the inferiors …fill in the blanks …blacks, jews, gays, Mexicans, seniors?
    Bottom line to my opening paragraph, my relative, a life long republican, fully supports Obama due to the fact that his hospitalized son, who is only 23, is still eligible to be on his health insurance policy until he’s 26. We spoke briefly about the economy and he reassured me that all is well. Historically we’ve entered into recessions and come out of them just fine (his words). BTW, he just filed for unemployment (again), due to the fact that he is employed in the construction industry. That said, he seemed to have an “Asoka” like attitude that “it’s all good!” At times I feel like pulling what’s left of my hair straight out of my scalp.

  427. anti soak December 6, 2011 at 5:49 pm #

    hate Crimes and the ‘Protected Classes’:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … drunk.html
    “A gang of Muslim girls who repeatedly kicked a young woman in the head walked free from court after a judge heard they were ‘not used to being drunk’ because of their religion.
    The group screamed ‘kill the white slag’ while kicks raining in on 22-year-old Rhea Page as she lay motionless on the ground, the court heard.”
    Contrast this to the Jailing of Emma West.

  428. BeantownBill December 6, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    We currently are in the process of having the freedoms and financial and natural resources we’ve enjoyed stolen from us by an international cabal which has no regard for anyone; whose purpose is to obtain all the world’s wealth and to maximize its power over humanity. The process has been occurring over a long period of time, but it now seems to be accelerating.
    At present, the average American may suspect, but does not realize the extent to which his/her existence is controlled, as the illusion of freedom outshines the reality of constantly narrowing choices.
    The issue is, what are we to do?
    Only a few options are available:
    1. Complain and bitch about our current situation.
    2. Do nothing and accept reality and live what remains of our lives as we always have.
    3. Do nothing but prepare for the worst as best we can.
    4. Petition the US government to make the necessary changes.
    5. Request the government to resign.
    6. Through large public demonstrations, influence the congress and presidency to change course.
    7. Vote out the president and congressmen and replace them with people who’ll take us down the correct path.
    8. Secede from the Union.
    9. Violently overthrow the government with a 2nd revolution.
    To my mind, these are the options are available to us, no matter how silly or ineffective some may appear. If anyone has different ideas, I’d like to hear them
    So my last question is, what option(s) ought we take?

  429. lbendet December 6, 2011 at 6:24 pm #

    E.
    I’m glad you read CHS. I copy his posts every day along w. Asia Times online. I really enjoy the writing of Pepe Escobar. If you like JHK, you’ll like him as well–very hip, funny and great perception on what’s happening.
    Dylan Ratigan is doing good work in expressing his outrage every day on what the nature of this economic global beast. It’s hard to believe this thing is going to continue in some new convolution, but we know it’s going to crack under its own weight and if the middle class doesn’t have discretionary spending it’s game over for the system.
    There’s just so much you can siphon out of them if their jobs keep going to the cheapest labor.
    re this site: I don’t have time to go through all the posts and the ones about religion and race don’t interest me. If I want to know about physics I’ll check out sites and others sources, don’t need to do that here.
    I guess my world view is that I’d like to discuss something I can do rather than something I had no say in. Couldn’t choose who my ancestors were.
    There are people on this blog I look out for and focus on those posters. I do always look forward to reading your posts as well.
    Enjoy your vacation from the blog and come back with a fresh head.
    L.

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  430. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 6:25 pm #

    You support the war mongers then. The Founders told us to stay home and mind our own business. Specifically told us no European Wars. The whole 20th Century was Un-American to the nth degree.
    Isolationism? Just a slur word that means nothing. No one ever said no trade. We just want trade favorable to Us – which means tariffs of course.
    Trump said the same to Greta Van Susterin the other day. And she knee jerkedly said “Trade War”! What a dummy. We’ve already had a trade war and lost. Our Elite sold us out for private profit.

  431. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 6:33 pm #

    This is the world Asoka and Prog are creating for us – one thru active advocacy and the other thru passive acceptance. At least the two Whites fought back a bit. The White girl got a few good kicks in on the Muslima laying on the ground. The guy seemed kind of restrained; kept holding his coat for some reason instead of just blasting on them.

  432. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 6:42 pm #

    The counsels of defeat. Glen Beck went on a rave the other day about the Black Woman who had 15 kids from three baby daddies. It’s your responsibility he raved. We’ll help, but it’s your responsibility. In other words, she wins again. After recieving welfare for decades, people become incapable of shame. Their ego structure is incomprehensible to an ordinary White person. Glen doesn’t get that and neither do you.
    How to deal with this women? Take her kids away and take the next one away too. I hesitiate to say forced sterilization – rather give her incentives to self sterilize and stop rewarding her for having babies. How to deal with the Illegals? Much easier since they have no rights here: turn of their utilities and stop all checks. They’ll flee south to escape the cold. Humanitarian aid and free gas could be given to those who need it on the way back to Mexico. Dude, that was easy, you just have to think outside the box. The box is shrinking you see. And if we don’t get out we’re going to die. Your “being reasonable” trip is just the acceptance of degredation and death.

  433. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 6:47 pm #

    Now you’re back your usual Greek Clarity.That may have been the great oversight of the Constitution: the procedure for peaceful sucession. Probably doesn’t matter since Washington isn’t going to let any of us go without a fight. But who knows – maybe if it was in writing and there since the begining it might have made a difference…

  434. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 7:03 pm #

    Good Myrt. Just keep worrying about a Right Wing takeover during an ongoing Left Wing Coup. They will use the dialectic: the OWS’s will make extreme demands and Obama will walk a middle line by not granting all their wishes – in other words more State Socialism but not the looting of the Banks that they want. Thus Obama and his Banker paymasters get what they want by seeming to be conciliatory and moderate like Comrade Progress. But for the White Middle Class – nothing, and less than nothing.

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  435. lbendet December 6, 2011 at 7:07 pm #

    Hey Tripp
    Good to hear from you again.
    Thanks for the link to Trends on your site. Have copied it and will read. Also thanks for the book recommendation.

  436. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 7:08 pm #

    She sounds sinister – like those Jews manning women’s centers in Muslim Countries trying to make abortion available. A “Christian” talking about a “broken shofar”? Suuuuure. Just like Tony Blair who converted to Catholicism after his term ended. I mean the old boy has to stir up trouble somewhere. Can’t just sit at home, you know.

  437. BeantownBill December 6, 2011 at 7:23 pm #

    We always have the Declaration of Independence to justify change of government, although our present government would strongly oppose such an action.
    To me the Declaration was the philosophical basis for what government should be, in whatever form, while the Constitution is kind of a rules and regulations manual.

  438. k-dog December 6, 2011 at 7:28 pm #

    Apparently it (pot) does something to the brain’s chemicals that increase the symptoms of schitzophrenia (sp?).
    If somebody is schizophrenic to start with then having a toke can’t make them schizophrenic.
    That is like an egg laying a chicken.
    I’ve looked at recent studies concerning schizophrenia and cannabis use. They all appear bogus.
    Scientific research can’t be done when there is an agenda to produce results for political reasons. When it comes to cannabis there is a huge political agenda and a lot of money is spent to justify the war on drugs. The war on drugs is really an industry in it’s own right.
    Enough money gets spent on the war on drugs to corrupt god and I would think all the money spent over the last twenty years to find something wrong to no avail would tell a thinking person that cannabis is probably pretty safe.
    I think our guvment would love to tell you something was wrong with it. Oh yes they would, if only they could.
    If it really does fry your brain then they’d not ask Any Questions? when they showed you their frying egg spot on the tube. They’d tell you exactly how dangerous it really is in excruciating detail and include a few medical disaster photos for good measure.
    It’s safer than alcohol that’s for damn sure. Forty times less damaging to society and I’ve a source for that.

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  439. Buck Stud December 6, 2011 at 8:00 pm #

    You may be on to something regarding Hollywood. I saw the flick “Hall Pass” ( don’t waste your time or money)and one scene was particularily notable. The main character – a white guy – passes out in a athletic club hot tub. Out of the sauna come two men to the rescue, a white guy and a black dude. Anyway, the black dude takes the head and shoulder end to help lift the passed out character of the hot tub and the white guy grabs the feet end. Meanwhile, the passed out character wakes up to the sight of Big Bad John dangling in front of his face. Looking back over to the white guy he requests, ” Hey Irish, switch places with this guy please”. At which point the camera reveals a red-haired man hung like a leprechuan.
    No respect I tell ya; no respect!

  440. metuselah December 6, 2011 at 8:18 pm #

    First, you need to raise your situational awareness. Second, you need to understand the source of the enemy’s motivation and the source of the enemy’s power. Most often than not it is one and the same and it is economic. Thus, your suggestions above are of little practical use. After you manage one and two, you make yourself like the wind. So when the wind blows it is the wind blowing.
    Remember, nothing is coincidence. Everything is planned.

  441. rippedthunder December 6, 2011 at 8:30 pm #

    The depravity of the human soul knows no limits. Watch this dog fight video if you dare!
    http://www.dogwork.com/chmatf8/
    See there is really some joy left in the world. If only we could talk to the animals!

  442. rippedthunder December 6, 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    Superpowers can coexist with small nations!

  443. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 8:34 pm #

    Your Emma West mask will be sent to you in the mail.

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  444. progress2conserve December 6, 2011 at 8:35 pm #

    Bill –
    I’d have to go with #3 and #7.
    3. Do nothing but prepare for the worst as best we can.
    7. Vote out the president and congressmen and replace them with people who’ll take us down the correct path.
    And I’d add a #10 of my own –
    10. Learn to think of the future in ways that go beyond the next meal, paycheck, election, or war.
    ======================

  445. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 8:39 pm #

    We’re too busy to feel you see. Thus we lose our soul be minute degree every. Each day less human than the day before. The weekends cannot give us time enough to recover. If one does what one loves it’s different of course…but how many do or can?
    Remember Dr Doolittle who loved the animals – he could because he did little else…no sex drive, no women to please – a perfect monk.

  446. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 8:50 pm #

    One Evangelical Group out here has ties to the Middle East. They claim that the Sunnis and Shiites hate each other almost as much as they do the Jews. They have a saying: first Friday, then Saturday, then Sunday. In other words, take care of the Muslims first, then the Jews, and then the Christians.
    Don’t know if this is true. The hatred is obviously extreme with the radical Sunnis being the worst. Shiism is apparently somewhat closer to Sufism than the Sunni.

  447. rippedthunder December 6, 2011 at 8:53 pm #

    Vlad you have to lighten up, I agree sometimes shit gets me down. I feel. I have seen a lot of shit. My junk drawer overfloweth. I think I became more human as I aged. I work most weekends so I can not comment on that. I love my job and I am gonna retire soon. I am somewhat ambivalent about it. I have been there since I was 21. I love animals and believe me I am certainly no monk! I hope I am pleasing my woman! Either that or she has been faking for 30 years. And yes I can talk to my dogs!

  448. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 8:56 pm #

    You find it amusing apparently. The other day a young White Man killed himself in England after being raped by two Blacks.
    Remember the White guy who dragged the retarded Black guy to death? James Byrd I think? He had been gang raped in prison. Somehow the Media forgot to mention that even though what he did got enormous coverage. The hate that hate wrought.
    Your attitude is so common and it’s so wrong. It’s like enjoying dog fighting.

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  449. Vlad Krandz December 6, 2011 at 9:12 pm #

    Yes Tragedy either makes us more or less – never just the same. I bet you have. One EMT told us (first aid class) that alot of what she had seen was very funny and/or very sad. Her fave: kids driving around in a van. One girl blowing a guy in the back. Crash. Chomp. Guy is in alot of pain. Girl has whole dick in mouth without guy being attached. Guess they were able to reattach. Wonder if it worked “better” like Joey Buttefuko’s or however you spell it! See, I can be light and funny.
    C.S Lewis said having a pet is like having a personal representative in the Kingdom of Pan. I’m trying to tame a feral cat. He hisses at me sometimes even though I feed him. Now and then he meows, but I think it’s hard for him. I’ve made progress – now he’s willing to sniff my finger as a gesture of acknowledgement, but that’s it so far. My brother suggested just getting another cat, but I can’t bring a new cat into this dangerous coyote ridden environment. This one is here already. He’s an impressive Tom – very hard and wary. I like him even if he doesn’t like me yet – or ever.
    Maybe I’ll get a ferret or rodent if he doesn’t work out. Each species brings its own gifts as the Indians say. Dogs I love but they don’t quite fit my lifestyle and situation.

  450. rippedthunder December 6, 2011 at 9:15 pm #

    Vlad I hope that dog fight comment was not directed at me. The you tube link I posted was cute as heck. ;o)

  451. Buck Stud December 6, 2011 at 9:16 pm #

    It was silly and stupid. It was also incendiary in a passive-aggressive sort of way, i.e., dressed up in comedy. But what purpose, Vlad, does it serve to graphically delineate such ridiculous characteristics (and individually idiosyncratic traits smothered in stereotypy) between various ethnic groups? Mostly it was just degenerate, no talent film making, along with the vast majority of vapid junk that comes out of Hollywood – that’s why I qualified my post.

  452. rippedthunder December 6, 2011 at 9:16 pm #

    Vlad I hope that dog fight comment was not directed at me. The you tube link I posted was cute as heck. ;o)

  453. rippedthunder December 6, 2011 at 9:18 pm #

    Whats with the double post? More ghosts in the machine?

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  454. BeantownBill December 6, 2011 at 9:18 pm #

    Thanks for your comments, Procon. When I wrote this post, I had an idea of which option would be the most realistic.
    #3 is what preppers do. With great good luck, that might save yourself and your family. But it wouldn’t change a bad outcome for our society if TSHTF.
    #7 is great, but idealistic. It won’t happen. There’s too many different opinions among the electorate to elect a congress and president who’ll stop the graft, corruption, thievery and bad judgment, IMO. The electoral process hasn’t worked yet. Since it’s 11 months to the next national election, could we get the populace to act rationally in that short a time? The next chance would be in 5 years, 2016. Do you think we have as much as 5 years before something bad happens? Just electing a good president isn’t enough. There are 3 branches of government to contend with. And truly, which viable presidential candidate for 2012 now is capable of effecting “change we can believe in”?
    Your options, ## & #7 are the choices a good person would make, but they won’t be able to stem the tide of crap that’s sweeping towards us. I’m an all-out kind of guy, so I’d be looking for some action that would stop the tsunami of hurt that’s descending upon our civilization.

  455. BeantownBill December 6, 2011 at 9:24 pm #

    Correction: Options #3 & #7

  456. rippedthunder December 6, 2011 at 9:27 pm #

    Vlad, I believe your referencing John Bobbitt,
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_and_Lorena_Bobbitt
    Made all the news.
    We had a similar incident in town and I don’t think it even made the local paper. They still call the poor guy dickless. Really quite sad.

  457. rippedthunder December 6, 2011 at 9:30 pm #

    Then again the dude probably deserved it. OUCH!

  458. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 9:32 pm #

    BeantownBill, Thanks for laying out some options. I spent a good part of my youth angry, in the streets, banging my head against the establishment and that did not work (understatement, no?)
    So I would, at this stage of my life, with my energy waning, go with your #2, but I would phrase it a bit differently. I like the way SolarGuy sums it up pithily every week. Something like SMILE, DO GOOD, PUSH ON.
    I would change you #2 to something like this:
    2. Accept reality, be thankful, and live what remains of our lives with as much joy as we can muster: Dance, sing, eat, and celebrate this precious life we have been given.

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  459. progress2conserve December 6, 2011 at 10:14 pm #

    No compromise, then.
    Asoka damns the United States with his intransigent “pack ’em all in,” and “grow the economy” attitude.
    You, Vlad, damn the United States with your intransigence on social costs. A “pathway to legalization” is not amnesty. And if compromise could stop the flood of LEGAL immigrants for just 10 years – it would make up for all of the illegals here now – and pay benefits for the Planet, forever.
    ======================
    Of course, here we come to the truth of it.
    You want to see the United States collapse.
    You have this fantasy of White Retreat to Idaho, which only total collapse can enable.
    I’ve promised to travel through time and man a rampart beside you – if and when this ever happens.
    But, man, am I going to be pissed if it could have all been avoided through compromise on LEGAL vs. illegal immigration.

  460. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 10:31 pm #

    ProCon, I think you replied to the wrong post. My post said nothing about intransigence or packing em all in, or growing the economy. You are putting words in my mouth again.
    What I have said is open the borders and things will take care of themselves. Hostile laws and attitudes means that immigrants are already leaving. There is a brain drain happening as immigrants leave the USA. This hurts our nation. You hurt our nation.
    What I have said is we need global population reduction and stopping immigration does not achieve that. Misdirected effort in my opinion.
    What I have said is that everyone needs to work on energy descent (which is why I live simply in a mud hut).

  461. progress2conserve December 6, 2011 at 11:01 pm #

    “ProCon, I think you replied to the wrong post. My post said nothing about intransigence or packing em all in, or growing the economy.”
    -asoka-
    asoka., your entire life as demonstrated on CFN, is about intransigence, packing ’em in, and growing the economy.
    What good does it do to reduce global population if the US – currently burning 25% of Global Carbon – rises in population at 3 million/year – in a never ending, non-brain-draining, rape of Global resources?
    And – evidence demonstrates convincingly
    You don’t live in a mud “hut”.
    You’re not black.
    You’re not old.
    You are an oveposting, preening, impediment to honest discussion.
    And, saying repeatedly that you “like me as a person,” only serves to corroborate this evidence.

  462. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 11:01 pm #

    Why America Needs Immigrants

    the allure of America is fading. A new study by researchers at U.C. Berkeley, Duke and Harvard has found that, for the first time, a majority of American-trained entrepreneurs who have returned to India and China believe they are doing better at “home” than they would be doing in the U.S. The numbers weren’t even close: 72% of Indians and 81% of Chinese said “economic opportunities” were superior in their native countries. — Wall Street Journal, May 14, 2011

    The USA will deteriorate even faster without immigrants. Welcome them, ProCon. All of them. Or they will leave permanently and take their brains and wealth and innovation and creativity and job creation skills and humanity with them. And we will be the poorer.

  463. progress2conserve December 6, 2011 at 11:04 pm #

    Freak on a leash –
    You’re right a., I meant for my 10:14 post be a reply to Vlad.
    My bad.
    I think I’ll quit for the night.

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  464. asoka. December 6, 2011 at 11:16 pm #

    Thanks, ProCon. Sleep well. Happy chainsaw dreams.

  465. vnrwandkhb December 7, 2011 at 12:03 am #

    ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????(??u)????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??? s?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????q????2?6?0???????????3????????2?0?????????????????????????????3—2???32?????????????????????????????1????????????????????????????????????????????

    ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????q??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????1?1????????1?0??????????0?0?????????????????????????????????6?????????????????????????????????????16????????????????????????????? ????????(?????)??????????????????????2?????????????

    ?????????????? ??? s?????1976 ~ 77????????????????????????????2????(16?)?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????16???????????????07 ~ 08???????????????????16?????????????????????????????????????????????????????(?????)??????????????????????????????????????(?????)??????b??????5????????4???????????????????????????????????????????????????4??????????????????????????????????????????????????16????????????????????????

    ???????(????:???????????:???)

  466. jerry December 7, 2011 at 12:31 am #

    Here are a few things:
    PA Governor Tom Corbett should be investigated by Holder. Where is Eric Holder? Corbett was aware of the Sandusky/Penn State rape case when HE was PA Attry. General but failed to investigate and indict leaving it to the current PA Attry. General, once Corbett won the Governorship position. HUMM!!! Apparently, he knew but looked the other way until made Governor.
    Also, Corbett knew that Allan Shipman, the contracted toxic Fracking fluids waste hauler who dumped tons of the shit in local streams and creeks, when Corbett was PA Attorney General. He knew but failed to investigate and indict. At the time, Corbett was getting some Marcellus Shale drilling cash to run his campaign for governor. Eric Holder—where is your investigation of Corbett. Again, Corbett left the indictment up to the current PA Attry. General.
    Finally, why is the Federal Reserve considering being the central bank of last resort for Eurozone bank liquidity, while US citizens are being foreclosed, and on the street?
    http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

  467. BeantownBill December 7, 2011 at 12:36 am #

    Asoka, a fine sentiment on your behalf, but it wouldn’t work for me. I know peace of mind is a goal to be achieved even more than happiness, and acceptance and letting go provides the basis, but I can’t yet forego the possible future I dream of for us humans – a wondrous time when apparent miracles to those of us today would be a daily occurance.
    For that reason, I”m not able now to stand by and let a collapse occur without at least trying to prevent it somehow in my own little piece of the universe. So to me, option #2 doesn’t appear correct.

  468. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 12:40 am #

    Maybe I’m missing something in your point of view: what do you see as the relationship between legal and illegal immigration?
    Naturally I’m against both. Certainly a moratorium on legal immigration and an end to illegal via everify and other measures. Any path to citizenship is just a green light for them to keep coming. We must get serious or Bunkers it is. And yes, that may well be the for the best since there will never be peace here now. Too diverse. But don’t get me wrong: it wont be good for me. I never write about that. I identify with the White Race here and not my own misery or gain.

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  469. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 12:53 am #

    97 year old man punched to the ground by Negro on tram. No jail time – unlike Emma West who spoke out against “people” like this chimp.
    http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2011/12/my_tram_experie_1.php

  470. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 12:54 am #

    BTB said: “I”m not able now to stand by and let a collapse occur without at least trying to prevent it …”
    ================
    You and I and others have been reading this blog for years now. If there was a way to “prevent collapse,” someone would have come up with it. Guns and ammo and whiskey don’t prevent collapse. Gardens don’t prevent collapse. Prayers to invisible beings don’t prevent collapse.
    Of course I have my bias toward activities like Tripp’s permaculture or SolarGuy’s panel installations, but I am under no illusion that those activities will become mainstream, and therefore they will not prevent collapse.
    #2 has the important “Accept reality…” in it, and that means accepting that we cannot prevent collapse. It is bigger than us. It would be like a Hindu trying to “prevent” Kali Yuga.
    I’m sticking with #2. I wish you well with your choice.

  471. BeantownBill December 7, 2011 at 1:01 am #

    As a further explanation of why I wouldn’t pick option #2 – when I was in my early 20’s, despite my scientific background I went to an astrologer to get my horoscope done. I guess I didn’t really know who I was; I tried to learn but I couldn’t seem to find any answers, so in a pseudo-scientific way I decided to get someone else to tell me.
    Anyway, I never forgot what the astrologer told me: that my life path in this world was to find spiritual enlightenment. Around this time I was studying about peace of mind, so I kind of naturally conflated spiritual enlightenment with it.
    Now I’m much older and long ago I learned in my own way who I am. Not totally, because I think I’ll always learn something new about myself until the day I die, but mostly. I’ve grown as I age – luckily – but I haven’t yet gotten to the point of being able to let go of a lot of things. I can accept, but not yet let go. This is good, because maybe it means I have to be alive a bit longer to learn this lesson.

  472. BeantownBill December 7, 2011 at 1:09 am #

    You may be right. You and I both believe that the end of the world is not coming, but I do think we could experience very hard times. I don’t want the progression of knowledge to slow down; I’d like to be alive in that future I mentioned. For me, it would be a shame if I missed it.
    Many times I think the human race race shouldn’t progress more until we emotionally mature as a species, but I’m not sure. Ah, well.

  473. wagelaborer December 7, 2011 at 1:32 am #

    Did you not read the link I tried to give to Beantown last week?
    Dennis Kucinich IS trying to deal with the banking crisis.
    Not by bailing out the banks. By introducing monetary reform.
    Every week you point out that our current system is unsustainable. Well, yes, it is.
    So we need to do something different. This is something different.
    http://www.monetary.org/american-monetary-need-act

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  474. wagelaborer December 7, 2011 at 1:47 am #

    Well, asoka, you must know how I feel about prison by now.
    It is a horrific institution, and the claim that it’s some sort of luxury life, with great medical care, and visits from the family? I find that totally disgusting.
    To lock people into cages at the mercy of armed goons, to take their freedom away for decades for petty crimes, to turn prisons into profit-making institutions, with judges and legislators bribed into giving more people into their clutches- it’s all too horrible.
    And your go to jail for justice? You can’t be serious.
    There is nothing revolutionary about being locked in a cage.

  475. wagelaborer December 7, 2011 at 1:53 am #

    Ahhhhhh! So cute.

  476. rqojantifz December 7, 2011 at 1:59 am #

    spling??????????+?????????????????????spling?????????????????????????????????????????????????1???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????? ??? s????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????

    ???????spling????????????spling??????????????????????????????? ?????????(ceo)??????????(billymcfarland)?cfo??????(nicmeiring)?coo??????(maccordrey)?cto???·?????(henryclifford)?????????????????????19???????????????(??)

  477. wagelaborer December 7, 2011 at 2:04 am #

    Things are changing. People are waking up.
    The other day a security guard who hasn’t spoken to me since I stopped him from attacking a patient told me that he listened to my radio show and liked it.
    Tonight another security guard, who is in the military police, and bragged about how great it was to be able to go to Texas and do cell extractions, and how they could be as rough as they wanted and nobody cared, came up to me complaining about the Senate Bill that just passed, allowing the military to throw anyone into prison. At first, I assumed he would be for it, but, no. He’s vehemently against it.
    I’m thinking that the ruling class doesn’t realize that the people they expect to follow their commands just may not do it. At some point, they will turn their guns the other way.

  478. Eleuthero December 7, 2011 at 3:14 am #

    Hi, Bill!! I think that, conspiratorial as it may sound, the world’s power brokers and plutocrats already know that the world is growing more chaotic, resource-challenged, dumbed down, fractured (Yugoslavia split up, the “Velvet Divorce” split Slovakia from the Czech Republic, the “Stans” split from Russia, and lots of secessionist movements are quite alive like Catalonia vs. Spain), and showing all the behaviors of a Skinner Box (bad parenting, listless children, etc.).
    They know. The problem is that they’ve picked YOU and ME to die. What can we do about it except kvetch? Well, I participate in any and all local OWS rallies and I will try to be Sisyphus as long as I can. If we can end Vietnam, we can storm this Bastille, too. I try to live a personal lifestyle than SHUNS consumerism and waste. I try to talk to locals about living a low-footprint lifestyle. It’s NOT “austerity”. It’s just realizing that acquisition of “stuff” doesn’t produce DURABLE personal satisfaction like love, music, good books, good conversation, and good friends … all of which are either free or very low cost.
    Indeed, I would claim that acquisition is a SURROGATE for MISSING love, mental connections, or captivating hobbies. I don’t feel deprived for ONE SECOND even though I have a 14-year-old Honda Civic, a jeans-and-pullovers wardrobe, no high ticket possessions (Rolexes, jewels, etc.), and I’ve never felt travel was worth the jet fuel OR the expense. I’ve been to all but one Continent and I think travel is overrated. The more I correspond with Europeans, the more their complaints about social changes sound identical to here. McLuhan’s “global village” has arrived.
    E.

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  479. Eleuthero December 7, 2011 at 3:20 am #

    K-dog said:
    I’ve looked at recent studies concerning schizophrenia and cannabis use. They all appear bogus.
    ************************************************************
    K-dog … you’re just not getting the best shit!! Oh wait … I think I just saw God!! Just teasing … I think those studies that “prove” that pot is a “psychotomimetic” are bullshit. I know a raft of daily users around here and the only clinical effect I can verify is an amotivational syndrome and even THAT only in daily users. I haven’t seen ONE person “become” schizoid.
    E.

  480. lbendet December 7, 2011 at 8:00 am #

    E. and company
    The goal is to get all people on the same economic level with one tiny overclass who owns it all.
    When they said they were raising all ships they didn’t mean the first world. They meant the third world and the first would be downgraded at the same time. My slogan for us all: Our future rate of pay will be a dollar a decade.
    A few years ago, a TV commentator stated that the poorest Americans are better off than the poorest in third world countries. (that’s ‘cuz they have TV). When you witness what’s happening you can only conclude that they want a majority of Americans in the same economic bracket.
    Is that what T. Friedman means in the title The World is Flat?

  481. 8man December 7, 2011 at 8:11 am #

    [quote=”Twiffy”][quote]The laws of physics are a function of the observer[/quote]
    [quote]mathematics is greatly overrated in physics[/quote]
    LOL[/quote]
    Why are you laughing at me ? Do you have a car engine in your brain at full throttle ? and are the cylinders and gears, and many other gears, signals, wild symbols, wild chemicals, wild signals, trillions of gears, circuits, you name it, you invent it, like a crazy duck, all connected and disconnected with all kinds of mixes of neural circuits and sense organs and emotion – sentiment circuits and pain/pleasure mechanisms, and many other contraptions in your Man Brain ? Are you that particular OBSERVER ? Do you know how the world and reality feels like for that contraption ? And do you think that your personal Man Brain and life history and contraption in the ball of meat that is your brain is “objective” and has a higher “metaphysical value” and “truth” then the car engine brain mix OBSERVER ? Prove it then, show me the evidence, show me how your view is superior and tied up into the real “laws of physics” as opposed to what the car engine brain observes, and the patterns it discerns and the “laws of physics” (if it even needs them?) discovers.
    Nature is just one wild contraption that just appeared, for no reason at all, just because, because the blind forces of nature made the chemicals connect and evolve to create this fluke and insanely arbitrary quirk of a brain and Man Brain.
    There are starquakes on magnetars, solid frozen neutron stars that are frozen into a configuration by immense magnetic forces and just a small instability and change of the magnetic field can generate huge amounts of gamma ray pulses, enough to burn all life on earth if the magnetar is close enough. So how does the world appear to that particular observer, to that brain, to the magnetar brain. Oh, it is not a brain ? but it can be configured in such a way as to become an observer, and it would see things different from you.
    Am I wrong ? good, I want to be wrong, I want to lie, I want to tell as many untruths as possible, I worship lying, especially lying to myself (it is the only thing left worthwhile) I worship “incorrect” and “false”, I love contradiction, I worship contradiction as my only god, the more I am wrong and contradictory the better. Worship lies, invent ever more crazy lies, deceive, fake it, fake it all, delusion is my friend.
    Now, feel free to attack !
    Anyways, I have demonstrated once and for all that the neutrino speed is faster than light in:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177509
    Einstein was wrong, I am right, suck it up dude.
    TOBOR THE APE

  482. 8man December 7, 2011 at 8:15 am #

    That was from:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177441
    Study it all very carefully, please, and open your skull and stick stuff inside it, do me a favor (this also solves the overpopulation problem). Jackasses, we need trillions of new people, trillions of people to explore all…

  483. Eleuthero December 7, 2011 at 9:01 am #

    Third worlders who have a decent food supply eat BETTER than poor Americans. They eat fresh, wholesome foods … which they often raise and harvest/slaughter themselves.
    A freaking large ONION is now a buck at Safeway. Decent meat (not ground beef … you don’t want to know what’s in there) starts at $5.99/pound unless on sale.
    I’ll bet the Greeks eat way better than us. They live way longer, too, which is a de facto proof … even though they are Europe’s heaviest smokers. How can THAT be?
    In the latest WHO study of G-20 rates of depression, the most unhappy countries were France and the USA. However, radioland’s Republikooks will keep talking as though it was 1965 and we’re the kings of the mountain. I wonder if any of those bastards ever leave their McMansions and chauffeured limos to see how us “little people” live??
    E.

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  484. Eleuthero December 7, 2011 at 9:03 am #

    Thank God for Kucinich … and Bernie Sanders. Thanks for the news about DK, Wage. It’s nice to know that a few of our reps aren’t dead from the ass up. 😀
    E.

  485. Eleuthero December 7, 2011 at 9:18 am #

    I think your idea that the neutrino goes faster than light is nonsense. Since it is now well established that neutrinos have MASS (around 1.5 eV), as they approach C, their mass goes infinite and their density as well.
    There’s only one entity in the universe that DEFINITELY can go faster than light and that is SPACETIME itself. When fermions, like neutrinos, go faster than light (if that’s possible), the Lorentz Time Transformations demand that the particle go BACKWARDS in time. This is only possible, indeed DEMANDED, of one kind of substance … ANTIMATTER. A positron MUST go backwards in time to preserve CPT symmetry vs. the electron because they both have the same parity but opposite charges so T must change for antimatter. Antimatter CANNOT go forward in time.
    E.

  486. ozone December 7, 2011 at 9:27 am #

    “The goal is to get all people on the same economic level with one tiny overclass who owns it all.” -LB
    I agree. Feudalism works very well for a tiny few who have a psychopathic will to power and control. And, as we know, the only true wealth is natural resources (or those “things” made from them).
    HOWEVER, we have one hope that is the “elephant in the living room”. It’s one the overlords don’t see, or are willfully ignoring.
    ***********LEGALITY*********
    They’re busy destroying the legitimacy of “the law”.
    Okay, despot A sez: “I own this hyar land; all you pissant farmers move the hell off, ’cause I’ve got a contract (all signed and legal-like) that says I bought it fair and square.”
    Tell me why that “legal contract” should be heeded, won’t you? When the “laws” are written by and for the wealthy and powerful, there’s no recourse and little [if any] justice.
    JHK keeps at this theme, and rightfully so. Loss of legitimacy is the beginning of the end for any society. Violence is the only tool of enforcement (for unjust “laws”), and active subversion is the result.
    I suppose this is why many of us are “rooting for” economic collapse to stop the resource grabbing, rather than world-wide war. Theft by sword or pen? Any other alternatives?
    Water, energy, food, natural resources. These are the only real measures of wealth.
    That said, here’s an interesting new factor. The president of the republic of texas had better start making bug-out plans; this ain’t gonna end purdy:
    http://www.thenation.com/article/164970/greatest-water-crisis-history-civilization
    (The ads on the site crack me up! Tell Michelle you’re “in”. lol In on what? The Griftocracy? I don’t think “I’m in”, thanks anyway.)
    Alrighty, here’s a song to go with:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_2njtHamIM
    (And here we go again; sponsored by WALMART for EARTHMONTH! …And BRITA water filtration. The Orwellian oxymorons, cognitive dissonances and psychological disconnects fly faster and farther every day. BTW, it is the NEW Great Depression fire. Song by Peter Rowan, I believe.)

  487. ozone December 7, 2011 at 9:43 am #

    “However, radioland’s Republikooks will keep talking as though it was 1965 and we’re the kings of the mountain. I wonder if any of those bastards ever leave their McMansions and chauffeured limos to see how us “little people” live??” -E.
    IMHO, quite soon they will not dare without gangs of mercenaries watching their backs (and fronts… and sides… and overhead… and beneath).

  488. bossier22 December 7, 2011 at 9:45 am #

    It would an interesting experiment to see how hawaii would make without federal dollars or mainland tourism. there would be starvation and/or another colonial power there within a year. If they want secede , i say let them.

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  489. ABSALOM December 7, 2011 at 10:09 am #

    Oh Brother Where Art Thou?
    A Cohen brothers treat with a soundtrack many in my generation probably couldn’t appreciate.
    Ahhhhhhhh,
    It’s a good morning

  490. ABSALOM December 7, 2011 at 10:14 am #

    E, you just couldn’t resist jumping in to the particle physics blubber from another poster, eh?
    You MAD scientist you!
    Good to see your words still visiting this page.

  491. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 10:20 am #

    E. said: “I think your idea that the neutrino goes faster than light is nonsense.”
    ==================
    E. in high school physics they told us neutrinos could not go faster than the speed of light. They were wrong.
    There is new science now that shows neutrinos do indeed go faster than the speed of light. You can read about it here:
    http://arxiv.org/abs/1109.4897v2
    The results, submitted for peer review in the Journal of High Energy Physics (it ain’t Scientific American!), confirmed earlier measurements that neutrinos, sent through the ground from Cern near Geneva to the Gran Sasso lab in Italy 450 miles (720km) away seemed to travel faster than light.
    So information can be sent back in time. Past and present are not divided so clearly. And cause and effect are not all they are cracked up to be. I’m not even going to mention the implications for the validation of certain eastern religions — religions that scientists have poo-poohed for decades.

  492. progress2conserve December 7, 2011 at 10:38 am #

    “Maybe I’m missing something in your point of view: what do you see as the relationship between legal and illegal immigration?”
    -vlad-
    What has happened over the last 20 years due to ILLegal immigration – has been rapid and attention catching.
    What is happening due to LEGAL immigration is slightly slower – and seems to catch no attention at all.
    Before Columbus, there were 10,000,000 Indians as a HIGH estimate – in what became the US.
    We’re over that number already – by 31 X.
    We think things are OK – because of oil and coal.
    And “civilization” – which runs on oil and coal.
    This won’t go on forever.
    ======================
    My point is – legal and illegal immigration have become hopelessly conflated in public perception.
    And what matters is the TOTAL overpopulation of the United States.
    I’d be happy to open a “path to legality” to 10 million illegals – – IF, IF that “path” came with an honest examination of the future – and a reduction in NEW immigration to Replacement Level.
    ========================
    Besides that, new FIRST generation immigrants tend to be OK workers – and retain some of the ethical sensibilities of their homelands, and gratitude for being in the US.
    SECOND generation, children of immigrants – after a life of Free and Reduced Lunch and American Television Programming – become more and more indistinguishable from children of the native born –
    And these children then begin to look down on the NEW immigrants, the ones “Doing the Jobs Americans Won’t Do.”
    So – we’re into a never ending cycle –
    We can stop population growth the easy way, by changing some quotas, or we can let it ride-
    Until some physical thing, ends it.
    Which WILL happen, and not in a pleasant manner.
    It’s completely inevitable.
    And completely avoidable.
    ==================
    No, Lbendet – I do not believe that there is a brain, running the brain trust.

  493. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 10:41 am #

    What do you say? Let’s start a movement to lobby JHK to change the title from ClusterFuck Nation to Immigration Nation, since that is the theme you bring up week after week after week.

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  494. ABSALOM December 7, 2011 at 10:44 am #

    On how I struggle to cope with all the coming turmoil the next 20 years will contain:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cjRGee5ipM&feature=related
    Enjoy!
    ABSALOM

  495. lbendet December 7, 2011 at 10:47 am #

    E.
    I don’t think of Greece as a third world nation,
    though it’s going through the process of becoming one along with the rest of us.
    I’d say that most 3rd world nations have good food sources where droughts and floods don’t occur, that said, Monsanto and other big agribus transnationals are trying to destroy the local farming and replacing it with GMO’s. India has suffered greatly from this and many farmers were committing suicide.
    Oh, its so nice when they kill themselves so we don’t have to…
    ———–
    Ozone,
    It is amazing how our crazy economic system works backward. Today Newt boasted that he created the macro-economic laws by which Romney could make his millions. He’s boasting about supply side, which to me is really tone-deaf.. and anyone in the 99% still thinks that’s a good thing, all I can say is good luck to ’em.

  496. progress2conserve December 7, 2011 at 10:50 am #

    Couple of more observations:
    Someone mentioned how 3rd worlders eat better than US residents – and with shorter supply lines, etc.
    Which is true.
    And others (asoka.) point out that opening the immigration floodgates into the US would solve the immigration problem – as the US finally degrades into 3rd world status, and no one else wants to come here.
    But – problem is – we’ll be 3rd World with respect to opportunity, disease, and death.
    But we’ll still have the US style food supply chain. And we’ll still have the US style lack of community. We’ll be a Nation of 400,000,000+ individuals – eating processed Pizzas, and huddled in front of our TV’s. What a future.
    ===============================
    And Vlad – your idea of – just – turning off the lights and utilities on our illegal population.
    And then giving them gas money for the trip back home. I can see where that has a certain resonance for some people. But it will never happen.
    Concentrate on the possible.

  497. k-dog December 7, 2011 at 10:52 am #

    Cause you got a good job, then by all means make your paper booboo.
    But if you ain’t got no job, and you’re not smoking weed, I don’t know what the f#*k you are doing with your life. I really don’t. I really don’t.
    Katt Williams

  498. progress2conserve December 7, 2011 at 11:04 am #

    “clusterfucknation” vs “immigration nation”
    Population and immigration are the KEY components that put the Cluster, in the ClusterFuckedNation.
    And let me remind the WHOLE discussion thread – that JHK seems to share similar views on immigration. I just bring them up weekly.
    GOOGLE “My TEA Party,” by JHK.
    I’m sure this population and immigration focus gets tiresome to some threadriders.
    It’s pretty obvious that if you, asoka, did not engage me in the negative – week after week – that few others would.
    ============================
    And the offer stands – IF anyone can devise a defense for US population growth due to immigration that does not involve:
    1. Economic GROWTH
    2. Platitudes – “We’re a Nation of Immigrants.”
    3. Ethnic take-out opportunities
    I will find another issue over which to obsess.
    The floor is open.
    So far – Crickets.

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  499. Eleuthero December 7, 2011 at 11:22 am #

    I didn’t know about the Indian farmer suicide epidemic. I suspect that SUICIDE in the LE is going to move up right there with cancer and heart disease as a leading cause of death. Even in tony Palo Alto, I know a lot of people who are tired of having lived for 10 or 15 years in a row hand-to-mouth.
    Sometimes if such conditions don’t cause suicide, they cause a rapid degeneration of physical health and premature death. That’s why people in America in the 1920s lived short lives … the daily STRUGGLE of life made 50-year-old people LOOK old back then because of the sheer grind to survive. It wasn’t just lack of vaccines or bad food. Arguably, they ate a helluva lot better than we do.
    Suicide is going to MASSIVELY spike in America in the next decade and, mostly, it will NOT be farmers. It’ll be spread throughout the general population due to endemic and relentless poverty and the depression that this causes.
    E.

  500. ozone December 7, 2011 at 11:23 am #

    ABS,
    Correct-o!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8LCYS_85Dk

  501. ozone December 7, 2011 at 11:25 am #

    And thanks for the Carlin clips; always current and trenchant!

  502. Eleuthero December 7, 2011 at 11:31 am #

    This Merkel-Sarkozy “machine” is just getting to be the darkest of dark tragicomedies. Because their stupid bankers bet on Greek, Spanish, and Portuguese real estate they’re going to take an EIGHTY percent bond haircut (fifty? No way!) because they crashed those countries after a hot money invasion.
    Instead of accepting this with dignity, their latest proposal is full of overt and implied punishments for future naughty debtor nations. Translation: Keep your bubbles inflated PIIGS because we’ve “turned American” and we’re going to socialize all the losses and privatize all the gains.
    The Germans should dump that frumpy beeyotch and the French should grab Sarkozy by his sizable nose and pull like some realpolitik Three Stooges episode until he goes through a wall of sheet rock.
    E.

  503. Eleuthero December 7, 2011 at 11:33 am #

    A short addendum … y’all know that Timmy The Weasel Geithner is over there pleading for the EU to rob THEIR own people because it worked so well over on THIS side of the pond.
    I wonder if Mr. Obama TRULY knows his own cabinet?
    E.

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  504. k-dog December 7, 2011 at 11:38 am #

    Oh, but he does and that’s a hard truth to look at.

  505. wagelaborer December 7, 2011 at 11:40 am #

    We already had our epidemic of farmer suicides.
    http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id395.htm
    And it wasn’t just Earl Butz.
    Obama advisor, Paul Volcker, now touted as a great wise man, raised interest rates in the 80s to unheard of heights.
    This not only pushed US farmers out of business, it destroyed many third world economies.

  506. San Jose Mom 51 December 7, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    When I look at the situation in Europe I think that it is utterly hopeless. The Greek rescue is never going to work. The John Hussman quote you shared the other day, “What constantly rescues me makes me weaker…” qualifies as the best quote of the week.
    SJmom

  507. lbendet December 7, 2011 at 11:54 am #

    E.
    Love what you wrote about the stooges in Europe. Yep, they’re in this deep and Europe is giving up its sovereignty to oligarchy and worse.
    This is the overarching ideology and game plan and all our presidents since at least Nixon have been on this course of destruction.
    It’s very slow at first and people think it’s ok, but now the world is in a dangerous phase and it’s going over the brink.
    Obama may or not totally agree with all of this, but whether he does or not is immaterial to the fact that it is moving along in the only direction its allowed to. Since the only people selected as advisers are part of the movement, you’ll only get the same results. Volker, Geithner, who cares? They all are using the same playbook for the same leadership.
    I’ve named David Rockefeller, and Kissinger as leaders of this and there are many more. Call it Bilderbergers or anything else. This is where it’s going. No taxation for the rich and the buying up of assets in all countries incl. the US.
    What we are watching in Europe is pitiful.
    Next stop war…Syria, Iran..Nice and big. We’ll be too busy to notice the robbery from within.

  508. San Jose Mom 51 December 7, 2011 at 11:58 am #

    There is tension in the air folks! From the trenches in San Jose:
    I was shopping at Lunardi’s (upscale Italian grocer) and there was this lady swearing up a storm. The manager asked her to leave the building and she refused. She threw a cup of coffee at him, hitting his arm. A fellow shopper happened to be an plain clothes SJPD officer got involved and eventually handcuffed her (she bit the officer). They hauled her away in a police car. Yikes.
    SJmom

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  509. wagelaborer December 7, 2011 at 11:58 am #

    According to this, US farmers are still 4 times more likely to commit suicide.
    http://www.factory-farming.com/factory_farming.html

  510. old69 December 7, 2011 at 12:01 pm #

    For an Instant Singularitarian everything is (or can be, or can be potentially, or is in a certain universe amongst the infinite number of universes that exist) a brain, everything or anything is or can be an observer.
    For an Instant Singularitarian (as in Instant Singularity by sticking wild stuff in your brain and entering a state of singularity, a new universe with new laws of physics, by sticking wild chunks of metal, jet engines in your brain or the the brain in jet engines and crossing the boundary into a new universe, but also Instant Singularity as in everything is an instantaneous interaction of matter with itself, a reciprocal interaction of chunks of matter in an instant of time, signals talking to each other, actions and reactions all in one instant of time with no spatial or temporal extension, simply an Information Relationship achieved etc.) everything is a brain, everything is an observer, everything or anything can be a potential brain – observer decoding the universe (what universe ? no universe ha ha) in any possible ways hence living in new parallel universes with new laws of physics, etc. Of course this as described by our puny logic.
    And also since anything can be a brain or observer, any ensemble at all of entities (not necessary all in one place or time) can also be a brain, like a chunk of a magnetar plus a few electrons on mars plus a mountain on earth can represent and be the ensemble of a single delimitation of a single brain – observer. And this brain decodes the universe differently from us and lives in a parallel universe.
    And also different time zones and material items can be a brain, like a given car in 1951 plus a rock on mars in the year 2020 plus a chunk of the sun today can be ensembled in one new observer – brain, living incredible experiences, etc. Or potentially, new brains. But how to find out ? open your skull and shove a jet engine in it, step on the gas and find out.
    Everything is a potential brain observer, everything no matter how disconnected and far out and unrelated can be all put in one bag representing a new brain – observer – universe – laws of physics. A new Instant Singularity.

  511. k-dog December 7, 2011 at 12:01 pm #

    prog,
    It’s not that your concern with immigration is wrong, misguided, or misplaced. I’ll stick my neck out and say that most readers here like reading what you have to say.
    Many of us agree with your concerns but the fact is most Americans are selfish assholes who don’t think or give two shits about future generations or where our nation is going to be in twenty years.
    Much of what you may see as criticism from regular readers such as myself is actually a genuine concern for your health.
    Obsession can lead to depression when one tries to beat a dead horse however right you may be.
    Then again, maybe that’s what were all here for.
    To beat dead horses.

  512. old69 December 7, 2011 at 12:02 pm #

    That was from:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177441
    TOBOR ATE MAN

  513. ABSALOM December 7, 2011 at 12:05 pm #

    There are about four people who post on this site who I really enjoy reading. To be honest, I recognize that I don’t really have much to contribute to their gaze regarding the overall purpose of this blog, but I get a kick out of the literary voices, and I don’t worry so much about providing something new. It’s all meaningless now, anyway, as JHK exclaims. Although, JHK and the feisty small crowd of large intellects he attracts reminds me so much of Carlin’s comedy. And I can’t help but become frustrated by the never ending, contrarian circle jerk debates presented by the three clowns and villain who outpost every other person who visits here 20 – 1.
    Then I think of George Carlin again:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rh6qqsmxNs&feature=related
    Shrugging acceptance indeed!
    ABSALOM

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  514. ExtraO December 7, 2011 at 12:17 pm #

    I don’t comment here very often, and…
    As much as it gives me a morbid chill up my spine, as much as it evokes what one imagines “someone stepping on your grave” should feel like, I have to say that I really “like” this posting. It is your most apropos column in several months. Relatively short, as your best ones usually are, because lots of words aren’t necessary to really lay out a bad situation with the greatest impact. You’ve effectively communicated how the law of the jungle, the Wall Street ethic, has metastasized throughout the American political economy. That’s actually a bit unfair, as the phenomenon is a world wide epidemic. No matter where we are, we’re all “dead men walking”.
    On that basis I suppose I disagree with the last paragraph. There is nothing to be done “in this country”. The country is over. All of the Western world and its imitators is so morally bankrupt, even the countries as currently constituted need to go away in order to permit any enduring replacement to take root; and this process is just now getting up a head of steam. As you say, meaning has been vanquished, so what does “America” mean? Or Great Britain? Or France, Or Germany, or…? Zero, zip, nada; these names are merely place-holders for something that used to be there. Not that what used to be there was all that nifty. Think hard: What does it “mean” to be American in the current context?

  515. Eleuthero December 7, 2011 at 12:37 pm #

    SJM … it all starts with little “anecdotes”. Then you start talking to your friends and relatives and THEY have some little “anecdotes”. Pretty soon, you piece it all together, and you start thinking that “normal” people are losing it.
    I can tell you that the incivilities in the CLASSROOM and COMPUTER LAB at my school went hyperbolic in the last three years.
    Something about snowballs rolling down hills, I believe? On the macro scale it’s Oakland OWS. On the micro scale it’s a perceived ramping up of anger and confrontations in the streets about TRIFLES (happening in Paris a lot these days). It SEEMS slow but in 5-10 years we’ll look back at the terminal stages of this and it will seem like it happened in a flash.
    E.

  516. Eleuthero December 7, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    Hussman has a way with words. I only wish I thought more of his MUTUAL FUND. Sigh.
    E.

  517. wagelaborer December 7, 2011 at 12:40 pm #

    Wow! I’m watching excerpts of Obama’s campaign speech.
    Is it possible to top the hypocrisy of yesterday’s sanctimonious talk of fair elections?
    He’s attacking Republicans for wanting to continue with the same policies that got us into this mess. And he says that they think that the American people have short memories.
    Why, yes, they do, and that’s what he’s counting on.
    Americans will forget that Obama voted for the TARP bailouts and was President during the 16 trillion dollar handouts following.
    Americans will forget that Obama and the Democrats voted to extend the Bush tax cuts in Dec 2010, when they held overwhelming majorities in the legislative and executive branches.
    Americans won’t notice that Obama, who campaigned on an environmental platform, claiming in his Inaugural Address that we would stop global warming, is now busily sabotaging the Durbin climate talks. And personally attended the Copenhagen talks in order to sabotage them.
    The environmental president also opened new offshore fields to oil companies, and that has continued even after the submerged BP/Halliburton oil gusher of last year.
    The environmental president is pushing for renewed nuclear power plants, after a bipartisan 3 decades of no new construction.
    The environmental president postponed the tarsand pipeline until after the election.
    The transparent president has prosecuted more whistleblowers than any other president.
    The constitutional lawyer president has assassinated multiple people, and attacked another country without bothering to lie to Congress and get approval first.
    But he stands up there as if none of that has happened, secure in the knowledge that the American people will either forget, or ignore, his record.

  518. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 12:48 pm #

    But it’s s’ok. I know you would die for my right to say what I say. All of you Liberals believe in Free Speech – that’s why you enact speech codes, ban posters, and throw people into jail in Europe for speaking their mind about Third Worlders – even as those same Third Worlders rape, assault, and kill at will.
    How you people live with yourselves is beyond me. Do you close your eyes as you shave?

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  519. k-dog December 7, 2011 at 12:51 pm #

    Sad but true.

  520. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 12:52 pm #

    Now you’re waking up: the People are idiots. That’s why we had Bush and have Obama. There is no mention of Democracy in the Constitution. Voting was to only be for the well informed – what could make more sense?
    I will never forget the time I saw Leftists helping an immigrant who could hardly speak English to vote. They were filled with a corrupt satisfaction.

  521. Eleuthero December 7, 2011 at 12:54 pm #

    This experiment has NOT been replicated and they don’t even know among the signatories who are the endorsers and who gathered the results. Science is, above all, about replication and removal of alternative explanations. This is a 11/17/11 paper … three weeks old.
    If it’s true, then the ENTIRETY of particle physics MUST BE SCRAPPED. How can a material, non-antimatter particle go BACKWARD in time which is INSISTED by Lorentz? The denominator of the equation which compares a second at rest to a second in motion is one minus the square root of V squared over C squared. Well, if V > C then the denominator is a NEGATIVE NUMBER which means that the particle’s faster-than-light motion means that it “arrives” before it “left”.
    It gets worse when you pull in standard Relativistic Quantum Mechanics about density, length, and mass increases in particles of non-zero rest mass (the neutrino is about 1.5eV). Any nonzero rest mass goes to infinity when speed C is reached, density becomes infinite, and size becomes zero. In other words, this neutrino becomes a SINGULARITY.
    Better wait and see if this experiment is verified several times. It could be amazing … or it could be “cold fusion”, Part Deux.
    E.

  522. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 12:57 pm #

    Yeah Women have been so “empowered” by TV shows showing them as invincible that they have really begun to act out. It’s good that people are starting to put them in their place. The Black Guy working at McDonald’s who beat down the two Black Women who attacked him has just been exonerated. As both urban White and Black Men know, Black Women in groups can be very dangerous. He got alot of support from White Men in the Men’s Rights Movement.

  523. turkle December 7, 2011 at 12:58 pm #

    “I’m not able now to stand by and let a collapse occur without at least trying to prevent it somehow in my own little piece of the universe.”
    This reminds me of someone who thinks they’re going to prevent a skyscraper from falling over by getting under it. You should instead try to get out of the way.

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  524. turkle December 7, 2011 at 1:03 pm #

    I wouldn’t exactly die for your right to say whatever you want but I do think that speech codes and the like go way overboard in trying to solve what amounts to a non-problem. I’m not in favor at all. Let it all hang out, I say. Remember though, that if you say something that other’s think is stupid or offensive, they have the right to ridicule you.
    And always with the “you people.” Seriously, Vlad, you think that all people who don’t agree with you on the internet belong to some Elite Liberal Club that gets together on Tuesdays to decide how we’re going to annoy you this week. Get a clue.

  525. charliefoxtrot December 7, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    don t you know we don t shave?! why do you think they call us ‘hippies’?!

  526. turkle December 7, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    Yeah, next thing you know they’re going to want the right to vote.

  527. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    Did you see Kpax? Old n Me or should I say Old and I are Kpaxim. Remember this jem (why spell it with a g if it’s pronounced with a j? This is the new age):
    There was once a young Lady named Bright,
    Whose Speed was much faster than Light.
    She once went away, in a relative way,
    And returned the previous night.

  528. ABSALOM December 7, 2011 at 1:06 pm #

    Vlad has farted into his hand and rushed it toward his face, as usual:
    =================================================
    But it’s s’ok. I know you would die for my right to say what I say. All of you Liberals believe in Free Speech – that’s why you enact speech codes, ban posters, and throw people into jail in Europe for speaking their mind about Third Worlders – even as those same Third Worlders rape, assault, and kill at will.
    =================================================
    You silly curmudgeon. I’ll let someone else comb over your vacuous pronouncements and help you tidy yourself as you continue to shit the bed. OVER. AND OVER. AGAIN.

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  529. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    Glad you said trenches. You are behind Enemy Lines and are begining to wake up. Don’t bother thanking me, this is why I’m here.

  530. turkle December 7, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    I had a funny thing happen to me on the highway the other day here in the Bay Area. I was going along in the left lane, 1 of 4 lanes on this side of the road, at about 70 mph, which here in California is apparently extremely slow for some. Some jerk face in a truck (why do they always drive trucks?) gets right onto my bumper, even though all 3 other lanes were open to pass. So I dink the breaks a little to let him know that he’s being a jerk, though I only slowed down by about 5 mph to around the speed limit. He whips around me, opens his window, sticks out his middle finger, and starts yelling various obscenities, all the while passing me at about 80 mph and swerving all over the place. I chuckle to myself, cuz I like to annoy the tailgaters whenever possible. He’s 50 yards or so away and then I see a CHP car zoom by on my right and pull him over. Haha, suck it! Hope he got the reckless and/or drunk driving.

  531. turkle December 7, 2011 at 1:12 pm #

    Um, Vladdie, dearest, San Jose is one of the safest big cities in the United States. You’re afraid of your own shadow again.

  532. charliefoxtrot December 7, 2011 at 1:13 pm #

    turk, didn t you get the memo?! the meeting has been moved to friday morning at 10:47, and soak has been put on the provisional ballot…the first seven people to arrive will comprise a quorum; and will decide their fates…

  533. turkle December 7, 2011 at 1:14 pm #

    “Black Women in groups can be very dangerous”
    LOL. What, like a pack of piranhas or hyenas? Yes, it was just last week that I saw a pack of sisters take down a giant wildebeest on 2nd Avenue.

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  534. wagelaborer December 7, 2011 at 1:15 pm #

    Glenn Ford states it well –
    http://blackagendareport.com/content/obama-“trust-buster”-who-never-busted-trust

  535. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 1:16 pm #

    I love you Turk. Just heard the bad news: Mumia isn’t going to fry die.
    Pat’s book is real good. Good quote from Aristotle: “Democracy…arises out of the notion that those who are equal in any respect are equal in all respects.”

  536. turkle December 7, 2011 at 1:17 pm #

    Cool, I’ll bring the Commie Kool Aid. See ya soon!

  537. wagelaborer December 7, 2011 at 1:19 pm #

    Great meeting yesterday, Turkle.
    I think we came up with some fabulous ideas for annoying Vlad.

  538. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

    What a filthy mouth you have. You probably like playing with your own feces. And then playing on the computer – each key soiled by your dirty little fingers.
    You need to take a bath in all respects not just some.

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  539. BeantownBill December 7, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

    Hello Mr. Asoka the contrarian. The neutrino experiment involved sending a neutrino from one lab to another about 400 miles away. The particle arrived in an extremely small fraction of a second (one part in several billions) faster than if it had traveled at the speed of light. The distance between the receiving and sending stations was known exactly, as was the time of travel.
    As E has stated, if this result holds up, it would shake the very foundation of what we know about the universe. BUT here’s the rub: the measurement anomaly is so tiny that any of several esoteric factors could have contributed to an error. For example, gravity can bend light, as per general relativity. There could have been a slight uneven distribution of matter along the travel path of the neutrino beam, which could have thrown off the measurement a tiny amount; remember, we are talking about an extremely small variation, at the limits of our measurement capabilities.
    A few weeks later, another trial was made in which one possible error factor was taken into account. The result again showed a FTL velocity, but slightly less than before. This caused a great stir in the media, but not in the science community. This is because ALL the possible error factors must be eliminated before this experiment can be considered accurate.
    This is where we stand as of today. It is far from over. Until it is, we must keep the status quo.

  540. k-dog December 7, 2011 at 1:27 pm #

    ExtraO,
    I think the last paragraph is only saying the old order is finished and something as yet unknown must now rise up and take it’s place.
    By finished I think JHK is saying the status-quo can’t be patched and glued together anymore to maintain the fiction that everything is going to work out OK.
    There is an evil mime floating around that says our economy is like a locked up computer screen and that the computer just needs to be unplugged and plugged back in. To this JHK says the circuit boards are smoking, flames are about to shoot out the case and a reset is impossible.
    The good news this week is that there may be a habitable planet only 600 light years away. I hope Richard Branson gets to work on commercial space travel to the planet (Kepler 22 B) real soon. Maybe we can get the hell out of here while the getting is still good.

  541. bossier22 December 7, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    It is the collapse of the culture that causes the collapse of societies. Barring a catastrophic event( eg. nuclear war) cultural decadence is the path to destruction. Currently rising civilizations have no doubt about the righteousness of their culture and their actions. While the west wrings it’s hands over whose feelings they might hurt. This is probably clear to vlad.

  542. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 1:30 pm #

    E. said: “This experiment has NOT been replicated…”
    =====================
    Efforts are underway to replicate the results. Other experiments are being prepared — at Fermilab and at the KEK laboratory in Japan — to try to replicate OPERA’s findings. If there is confirmation from one of these experiments, that would open the way for a full scientific discovery to be declared.

  543. BeantownBill December 7, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

    I think it would be more productive for problem-resolution to speak in terms of probabilities instead of adjectives and metaphors.

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  544. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 1:36 pm #

    First, many of the first generation of Central Americans are good workers – true. But alot of criminals come in too. And the good workers are paid at minimum levels – so they get huge amount of social services. They are a net loss for America because of this and that they take the jobs Americans might do.
    Things only get worse by the second generation: no longer good workers, joining gangs or going to college and joining La Raza, much higher crime rate, poor grades, huge amount of births outside of marriage etc.
    These are the people who want to legalize. Alas our fallen human nature. The mind is split into two. Most people focus on the illegals. You’ve made the legals your cause celebre and now presto, the illegals are now the good guys. America is a broken record: every amnesty (or path thereto) just encourages more and more of them. We never learn. Is it possible?
    Politics is the art of the possible. Is it possible to deport them? Yes, Eisenhower did it, but we were still a Nation then. So although it’s more physically possible than ever, it’s imossible or “impolitic” to do so now. So you’re right – and we’re finished. And succession becomes the only remaining option for White America – the only true America.
    And that “will never” happen either. So it means war. Think it thru, my logic is flawless. And to condemn me is to condemn the Founders particularly Jefferson. They expected America to corrupt as all things do. The whole thing was an experiment to begin with. By no means did they share your fetish for things to continue forever as they are – even if they don’t deserve to.

  545. turkle December 7, 2011 at 1:36 pm #

    Okay, then let me just say that I’m probably confused by what you just wrote.

  546. charliefoxtrot December 7, 2011 at 1:38 pm #

    My Hero! tailgaters are my pettest of peeves on the road…i blame the pitiable lack of education: these idiots are clearly oblivious of the basic laws of physics…and obviously think they are dale jr, and that nascar is a driving tutorial…and they rarely notice that, unlike on the oval, drafting on my bumper makes my truck go slower…morons

  547. BeantownBill December 7, 2011 at 1:45 pm #

    I mean that instead of comparing my actions to standing under a falling skyscraper, you would say I have no chance of succeeding. I do love metaphors, but I respond better to facts. That’s just me.

  548. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 1:48 pm #

    Crystal. Cultures ascend on hob nailed boots and descend on satin slippers. Gay is as Gay does. Reading Sir John Glubb’s “Fate of Empires” Glubb Pasha was one of those amazing men that England used to produce is such abundance. Another Laurence of Arabia. He found most Nations (distinct from Civilizations) last 250 years give or take a few. Ten generations. We are on this exact trajectory so we will split up by 2025 or so. There is some evidence they are trying to suppress this little work for just this very reason.
    But what happens afterwards is far less clear. Sometimes a Dynasty can reinvent itself as something else without a complete falling apart. Eastern Rome became Christian Byzantium. Anyway take a look and tell me what you think. I fear we are not just facing the end of a Nation or Dynasty but the end of all the Nations in the West; in other word the end of a Aeon or Civilization. A parallel: as if China was defeated and then ethnically cleansed by White Russians or defeated and converted to Islam with all the intermarrying that implies.
    http://people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf

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  549. JonathanSS December 7, 2011 at 1:48 pm #

    Hi Turk!
    It’s remarkable that you continue to communicate with someone who stereotypes and compartmentalizes all humans & who’s cause & effect reasoning is out of whack.
    To put things in perspective, I was at my neighbors funeral Sat. Some of you long time readers here might remember that this is the guy that went off on me last Spring when I was discussing aspects of TLE. He had very little knowledge of peak oil, global petrol usage or what actual recoverable reserves are for various fields. He became enraged when I made some valid points about recovering oil from areas of the world that are increasingly more remote and that to claim “that there is plenty of oil, we just have to go after it”, sounded like claims from “Palinites, bubbas & right wingers”. That’s when he told me he would “shut me up” and started yelling repeatedly, “go home!”
    Since that point, I broke off contact, as the man scared me. He’s a former Vietnam vet, bipolar, on meds & with anger magmnt issues. Well, he got into a big argument with his wife last week over nothing significant (seems she was leaf blowing, which is HIS job), it escalated, he said he was going to kill himself. She called the police after he went into the garage, they arrived & as the cop was trying to talk him down, he blew a hole in his chest with a piece from his arsenal.

  550. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 1:51 pm #

    Vlad said:

    succession becomes the only remaining option for White America – the only true America. And that “will never” happen either. So it means war. Think it thru, my logic is flawless.

    You have already certified that I have an inferior IQ because of my skin color, but your “logic” seems to have a problem.
    First you say: succession becomes the only remaining option (I think you meant “secession,” but I understood what you meant)
    Now, maybe I don’t understand the meaning of the words “only remaining option” but when you use “only” I understand it to mean there are now other options, period.
    Then you go on to say there is another option: War. Your logic is not flawless, IMHO.
    But war is not going to happen either, except for the ongoing war in your head.

  551. ront December 7, 2011 at 1:52 pm #

    Excellent observations. If only the mass, commercial media would assist in this dilemma of forgetting and ignoring like they once did years ago.
    We do what we can. Keep speaking truth, WL. Do you send letters to the editors of local newspapers?

  552. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 1:55 pm #

    CORRECTION
    when you use “only” I understand it to mean there are no other options, period.

  553. charliefoxtrot December 7, 2011 at 2:00 pm #

    Van Allen radiation belt

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  554. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 2:00 pm #

    Wage said: “The environmental president postponed the tarsand pipeline until after the election.”
    ================
    I think you were intending to be sarcastic.
    Postponing is preferable to approving the pipeline for immediate construction. If Obama later turns the postponement into construction, then your sarcasm works.
    An anti-environment president would not have postponed the pipeline for a year.
    But I don’t give Obama the credit. I give Bill McKibben, the mass civil disobedience campaign, and 350.org the credit for pressuring Obama into postponing.

  555. turkle December 7, 2011 at 2:06 pm #

    Wow.

  556. lbendet December 7, 2011 at 2:07 pm #

    Please take the time to read Michael Hudson’s web page: It’s a brilliant explanation on how neoliberalism works.
    The disaster to the world economy and the illusion that the only option is to bail the banks out and now allow govts. to raise cash to pay of debts. (Milton Friedman-Chicago Sch. of business).
    Europe’s Transition From Social Democracy to Oligarchy from Dec. 6
    http://michael-hudson.com/

  557. k-dog December 7, 2011 at 2:09 pm #

    As it will take a star ship faster than light to get there in a reasonable time the Van Allen belt should not be an issue since the exposure time will be really short.
    I’ve got to believe in something or I’m just a lion standing around with a tadpole in a jar.

  558. charliefoxtrot December 7, 2011 at 2:09 pm #

    y all seen carlin s take on voting? “if you vote, you are taking part in a system which was bought and paid for long ago; therefore you have no right to complain…”

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  559. turkle December 7, 2011 at 2:10 pm #

    “I’m just a lion standing around with a tadpole in a jar.”
    ??????

  560. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    Could it be spent to “the” Space Station to get a more accurate reading? Or is there even one out there right now?

  561. turkle December 7, 2011 at 2:17 pm #

    Well, I kind of understand tailgating if you are behind someone going under the limit on a 2-lane, which is like saying “pull over and let me get by” or perhaps when preparing to pass. Or let’s say if someone is clogging up the left lane in busy traffic, it sort of makes sense.
    But riding someone’s bumper when there’s a perfectly good way to get around them (e.g. 3 other open lanes) makes no sense what so ever unless you’re just straight douche.

  562. k-dog December 7, 2011 at 2:18 pm #

    It’s from Led Zeppelin “Dancing Time is Here Again”
    I was nasty and threw it in for BeantownBill who has issues with metaphors today.
    It’s meaning is a bit murky but I’m sure a lion has better things to do than stand around with a tadpole in a jar.

  563. turkle December 7, 2011 at 2:19 pm #

    We’re talking differences in the billionths of a second. It could all easily just be some kind of subtle systematic effect. It probably is, actually.

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  564. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 2:20 pm #

    As I said, your verbal intelligence is fine but it isn’t hooked up with anything deeper. Your logical ability is nil, just like your mathematical ability. I lack the last as well btw.

  565. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 2:22 pm #

    Are are you arguing for causality and the status quo? You un-Asokean all of a sudden! Next you’ll be against illegals voting.

  566. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 2:22 pm #

    I kind of understand tailgating if you are behind someone going under the limit on a 2-lane, which is like saying “pull over and let me get by”
    =============
    Tailgating is dangerous. Period. And should never be done.
    In the 2-lane case, flash your high beams … from a safe distance.
    This CFN public service safety announcement has been brought to you by asoka.

  567. charliefoxtrot December 7, 2011 at 2:23 pm #

    yeah, no, as i understand it we d still fry like a microwaved mouse (don t ask) any conceivable craft currently at our disposal- which btw don t have FTL plasma drive…and there is quite a difference between producing a neutrino at such speeds (given the possibility, which i haven t the education to have an opinion on one way or the other) and making a vehicle do the same using that technology…so that s out for the forseeable future- if we have one, that is!

  568. turkle December 7, 2011 at 2:24 pm #

    What, are you surprised that all us liberals aren’t alike, Vladdie? I guess I didn’t read my marching orders from the Central Committee today very closely. BRB.

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  569. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 2:24 pm #

    Isn’t tail gateing to do with football?

  570. k-dog December 7, 2011 at 2:26 pm #

    Correction: it’s Dancing days:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGST7qYvlMw

  571. turkle December 7, 2011 at 2:27 pm #

    Yes, but it can also mean someone who drives too close behind you. Incidentally, I think there’s an overlap between people who do both of these things.

  572. wagelaborer December 7, 2011 at 2:31 pm #

    Yes, I do. I don’t know how many people read them.

  573. wagelaborer December 7, 2011 at 2:41 pm #

    I agree, CFT. I always slow down when someone tailgates me, on the theory that if they are going to hit me, survival is always better at lower rates of speed.
    It is especially annoying if I am actually driving over the speed limit.
    They have no right to demand that I go faster than the speed limit at all, let alone if I’m already breaking the law!
    Go around, asshole.

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  574. Widespreadpanic7 December 7, 2011 at 2:43 pm #

    Charming little tale about your neighbor, JohnSS. ‘Round heya people also get pretty pissed off when I bring up the subject of ‘Peak Oil’. So I just shut up. Let them find out the truth for themselves, the hard way!
    Vlad, I know what George Washington said about avoiding foreign entanglements. But it ain’t 1789 anymore. Iran & NKorea are developing missiles that could reach out shores, perhaps nuclear tipped missiles. How would Ron Paul respond to that? We don’t know. Probably not too forcefully.
    As for our foreign wars in the 20th century, I suspect your objection (to WW1 & WW2 at least) has something to do with the thorough ass-kicking we gave your beloved Germans in 1918 & 1945. In 1941 Hitler, amidst much fanfare, declared war on us right after the Japanese attack (70 years ago today), a big mistake on his part.
    ——————————–
    Saudi oil production has topped 10 million bpd. Perhaps Matt Simmons was wrong about ‘Twilight in the Desert.
    —WAS7

  575. turkle December 7, 2011 at 2:44 pm #

    Yeah, and you know a lot of these people are the “law and order” types ranting on the internet about how the OWS crowd is “breaking the law.”

  576. k-dog December 7, 2011 at 2:45 pm #

    Since it looks to be so dangerous perhaps sending our leaders and the 1% there instead would be a better idea.
    We can tell them that there are Aliens to exploit who will work for even cheaper wages than the Chinese. They will have a new chance to avoid minimum wage laws and labor regulations and relocate factories that is literally ‘out of this world’.
    Make em think it’s their idea and they won’t be able to resist. Alien slaves might puff up their chests even more than human ones do.

  577. Widespreadpanic7 December 7, 2011 at 2:59 pm #

    Owsers were rousted out of Hartford, Connecticut yesterday, after a reported rape, drug activity and weapons violations. It was a pitiful sight: a hard rain on a dark, dismal cold December day, Police Officers in riot gear holding automatic weapons, police dogs snarling, detrius and debris of the 2 month ‘occupation’ heaped up in a pile on the side of the road, tents, sleeping bags etc., dept. of health workers in hasmat suits pawing thru the debris, commuter traffic passing by with indifferent or annoyed drivers, the occupiers themselves, many who looked merely homeless, soaking wet in their rags, looking lost and forlorn, perhaps wondering what it was all about in the first place. Only a few resisted, only 1 arrest.
    So ended the ‘Occupation of Hartford’.
    WSP7

  578. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 3:23 pm #

    Gringos were rousted from the Alamo, perhaps wondering what it was all about in the first place. So ended the battle of the Alamo.
    Yep, battles may be lost.
    The Viet Cong lost every battle with the USA military… until they won the war. Vietnam is now communist in spite of 58,000 American soldiers dead.

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  579. turkle December 7, 2011 at 3:25 pm #

    You remind me of my friend, who thinks that Star Trek is based on actual science and that, given sufficient time and investment, we could actually create FTL drives.
    The two major problems are that NOTHING goes faster than light, at least not any kind of matter that we know of. Any particle that you try to accelerate to this speed limit will have infinite diminishing returns as it is accelerated towards the speed of light but never reaches it (think particle accelerators).
    Or particles that actually reach the speed of light get turned into gammas, e.g. light particles.
    People suggest that folding or warping of space time could allow us to “jump” from one point to another, but this is completely far fetched. Black holes already warp space and, as far as we know, don’t create portals from one point to another. Or, if they do, the physics are so chaotic in and around it that anything trying to pass through would be torn to bits.
    Sorry to burst the bubble, but a lot of sci fi is the equivalent of modern mythology.

  580. turkle December 7, 2011 at 3:26 pm #

    “The Viet Cong lost every battle with the USA military”
    No they didn’t. Google it. 😉

  581. tegmark December 7, 2011 at 3:42 pm #

    “which means that the particle’s faster-than-light motion means that it “arrives” before it “left”.
    It gets worse when you pull in standard Relativistic Quantum Mechanics about density, length, and mass increases in particles of non-zero rest mass (the neutrino is about 1.5eV). Any nonzero rest mass goes to infinity when speed C is reached, density becomes infinite, and size becomes zero. In other words, this neutrino becomes a SINGULARITY.”
    It is not absurd, only our mind – logic – language and neural circuits are not capable of making any possible sense of it, sense for us, for how we are, for our “Intentionality of Use”, for how the logic is inserted in an already completely constructed logical system (requiring millions of circuits and years of life to develop).
    The cause before the effect is outside of our range of understanding, it is not the universe that is limited, but our manipulation of the universe, our understanding and logical description of the universe that is limited and will always be limited by the limited number of neural circuits and the limited combination of concepts our mind, in this present design, can conceive.
    Therefore, change the Man Brain, design a new one, etc.
    Bustin, are you sill a tree hugger ? Do you still like nature ? You must be educated: kill nature, crack open the earth, burn the world, pollute, nuke all, get nature running wild, kill kill kill nature once and for all, turn america into one giant car engine cracking the earth and polluting like crazy, hate nature with all your guts, how I love to hate nature and punish nature, kill it fast, nuke the sun, nuke all, destroy, etc. show nature who the boss is!
    As in unresolved conflicts, as in self against self, always more unresolved conflicts, ever more, internally torn.
    Don’t be a scaredy cat, build those trillions of cadillacs and skyscrapers, do it man, don’t be a nature lover fairy, pua, pa, pa, pa chicken, pua, pa, pa, pa chicken, kill nature, be a man, don’t be a girly girl fairy protecting “mother” nature… fairy, you mair, you fairy, pua, pa pa, pa …

  582. turkle December 7, 2011 at 3:43 pm #

    “Iran & NKorea are developing missiles that could reach out shores”
    But the question really is, would they actually use them even if they had them? It would spell destruction not only of the leadership but probably most of the entire country and populace. What leader would want to blamed for that kind of apocalypse? This is why N. Korea has not launched any nukes at anyone, because the leaders there know they’d be vaporized if they did so.
    Then you presume that we are the ones who should fear the Iranians. Given that America has the most powerful military in the world, by a long shot, shouldn’t that be the other way around? Why do you think they want nukes in the first place? So they aren’t invaded by American storm troopers like their hapless neighbors! It is completely disingenuous to say that we should fear Iran for its supposed potential to create nuclear weaponry, only a theoretical at this point, when we’ve invaded two of their neighbors. Their fears are far more rational than ours, as they plan for the reality of what has actually been occurring rather than using spin like “mushroom clouds over San Francisco” like the fear mongers here in the US.
    That said, it all comes down to controlling the gigantic ME oil patch and the Strait of Hormuz. Iran has a natural, strategically strong position along the route where many oil tankers sail. So it could really throw a wrench into the works if a war started there. They could disrupt much of the global oil shipping. Some major chaos occurred there during the tail end of the Iran-Iraq War, when offshore platforms and tankers were hit, including Kuwaiti vessels that started flying the American flag for this very reason, and the US actually ended up intervening militarily to stop that conflict by shooting down some Iranian planes. That’s a far more likely scenario that we’re preventing rather than a nuclear weapons launch by Iran, which is a bit far fetched of a scenario.

  583. turkle December 7, 2011 at 3:45 pm #

    Oh, no, not you again!

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  584. tegmark December 7, 2011 at 3:48 pm #

    That was from:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177441
    TOBOR THE EIGHTH MAN

  585. turkle December 7, 2011 at 3:53 pm #

    Then why don’t you provide a link in the first place, rather than cut and paste to here?
    Especially considering that said post is complete crap!

  586. k-dog December 7, 2011 at 4:00 pm #

    This weeks column start with:
    Question du jour: why is Jon Corzine still at large?
    Sadly your statistic about farm suicide becomes relevant. Highly Relevant.
    The risk of farm suicide just went up.
    Farmers Caught Up in MF Global Failure

    MF Global’s demise has now put business on hold for many farmers who executed trades through the firm and have had their accounts frozen, a fact Tofteland fears may be lost on many members of the public.
    “What I’m worried about is that they think, ‘Oh, this is just a bunch of bad speculators.’ No, this is not about that,” Tofteland said. “I’d raise a corn crop or I’d raise a soybean crop, and I’d go ahead and reduce my price risk using the markets.”

  587. progress2conserve December 7, 2011 at 4:11 pm #

    “It’s not that your concern with immigration is wrong, misguided, or misplaced. I’ll stick my neck out and say that most readers here like reading what you have to say.”
    “Obsession can lead to depression when one tries to beat a dead horse however right you may be.”
    -kdog-
    Thanks, kdog, and I appreciate your concerns.
    But I don’t really think I’m obsessed.
    Although, I’ve got to say, regarding obsessions and CFN – That, for the regulars at least, this CFN discussion thread is like the rougher old bars of the South of my youth –
    They searched you for weapons coming in the door – And if you didn’t have one, they gave you one before they’d let you enter.
    Thus, it is with obsessions, here at CFN.
    So – I took myself, personally, through a standard checklist of standard US obsessions:
    1. Clothes? – nope, I don’t have that one
    2. Big house obsession? – nope
    3. Money? – not much of that either
    4. Sex obsessed? – nope – OK, maybe a little
    5. Concerned that the growing population of the United States due to LEGAL immigration will lead to cascading chains of ecosystem collapse that will reduce human survivability worldwide and leave the survivors in the US dying like flies as they fight over scraps of the American Dream turned nightmare?
    So, maybe I have the one teeny, tiny, obsession, when I think about it. hah HAH!

  588. BeantownBill December 7, 2011 at 4:12 pm #

    Yeah, Turk, what you say is true. You were referring to an Einstein-Rosen bridge (aka a wormhole). Under some conditions wormholes could exist, although very unstable, such that they could collapse at any moment, thus making them an unreliable mode of transportation. That doesn’t mean that at some future date science can’t advance to the point where wormholes can be practical.
    Another option is the creation of spacetime bubbles. As you probably know, the relativity speed limit only applies to travel through spacetime, not to spacetime itself. Although it’s hard for me to comprehend, spacetime itself is a “thing”, and at least once before has traveled many times the speed of light – just after the Big Bang, in a phenomenon called inflation. Since spacetime exists at all points, a way to travel FTL would be to take a bubble of spacetime that surrounds a spacecraft and accelerate that bubble past the speed of light. The spacecraft wouldn’t be moving because it’s in the bubble, but the bubble itselfwould carry it along.
    This, too, is far-fetched, but Arthur C. Clarke famously stated that a super-civilization’s science would be indistinguishable from magic to a lesser-advanced civilization. Interestingly, this is the science behind Star Trek’s warp drive.
    Unfortunately, although it’s fun to imagine such things, it’s best not to confuse science fiction with current reality.

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  589. messianicdruid December 7, 2011 at 4:13 pm #

    “Relatively short, as your best ones usually are, because lots of words aren’t necessary to really lay out a bad situation with the greatest impact.”
    “Evil men and seducers shall wax {grow} worse and worse, deceiveing and being deceived.”

  590. k-dog December 7, 2011 at 4:15 pm #

    “and leave the survivors in the US dying like flies as they fight over scraps of the American Dream turned nightmare?”
    Those of course being the lucky ones 😉

  591. BeantownBill December 7, 2011 at 4:18 pm #

    I should add to “…confuse science fiction…”, unless we want to end up like Tegmark.

  592. wagelaborer December 7, 2011 at 4:33 pm #

    Hmmm. I drove past 3 fields the other day that weren’t harvested.
    Probably 50 or 60 acres of dried soybeans just sitting there.
    I wondered what was going on.

  593. turkle December 7, 2011 at 4:35 pm #

    I think it is amusing that you believe curtailing immigration into the US will somehow save the planet (presumably). Aren’t these people who don’t come here going to live someplace?
    And, I’ve got news for you, the rest of the planet is trying its hardest to become like us in many ways, complete with obesity epidemics, clogged highways, intense energy usage, etc.
    So it won’t make much of a difference, I’d say.

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  594. progress2conserve December 7, 2011 at 4:44 pm #

    Again – the US burns 25% of Earth’s carbon. So most immigrants DRASTICALLY increase their impact by coming here.
    IOW, what good does it due for us in the US to reduce, reuse, and recycle – when our population is going up so fast that US energy us (total, not per capita) is going up, regardless.
    ==========================
    Plus how can we help other countries reduce their population increases – when we’re letting ours go up so fast.

  595. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 4:44 pm #

    OK, Turkle, the Viet Cong did not lose “every” battle. But almost every news report from that time period provided “body counts” in which the Viet Cong lost more combatants than the USA. In total there were 275,000 combat deaths suffered by the South Vietnamese, almost 5 times the American total.

  596. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 4:52 pm #

    No, the lucky ones will be those who die quickly and do not have to endure the nightmare.

  597. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 4:55 pm #

    Yo, Beantown, Mr. Contrarian here. You say you like facts and numbers … and then you write this:

    Under some conditions wormholes could exist, although very unstable, such that they could collapse at any moment, thus making them an unreliable mode of transportation. That doesn’t mean that at some future date science can’t advance to the point where wormholes can be practical.

    Under some conditions?
    Could exist?
    At any moment?
    At some future date?
    Can be practical?
    Could you be any more vague?
    It’s worse than religious scripture!

  598. wagelaborer December 7, 2011 at 4:59 pm #

    God, sometimes it’s SO embarrassing to be American.
    Big, swaggering men, heavily armed and ready to shoot starving people, reduced to quivering, sniveling fear, on command, of people who have never done them harm.
    Doesn’t matter who – North Koreans, Iranians, Libyans, the French, if the corporate media turns its lying eyes on a target, then certain Americans swoon in fear, like the good Pavlovian dogs they are.
    The most heavily armed, belligerent, lawless, terrorist force on the planet, but when we are told to be afraid of half-starved Koreans, a certain percentage of our brain-washed population, cowers on command.
    Embarrassing.

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  599. k-dog December 7, 2011 at 5:03 pm #

    K dog calling somebody obsessed is even funny to me. That’s me calling the kettle black for sure but concentrating on your obsessions or mine misses the point.
    Immigration is not OK to talk about in America, because it butts heads with neo-liberal contemporary capitalism and neo-liberal capitalism relies on the concept of ‘Workforce Mobility’. People migrate because they have to, from necessity, often at great expense and danger but they do so as pawns in a much larger game.
    How property ownership is defined, who has the right to sell and own one’s labor are central issues which define ones political orientation. Nothing will piss off the 1% more than talking about immigration or overpopulation. Everything you say will be used against you and you are grabbing a tiger by the tail.

  600. wagelaborer December 7, 2011 at 5:06 pm #

    Actually, three million Vietnamese people lost their lives, asoka, because cowardly Americans feared the slippery slope of communism.
    When they weren’t looking fearfully under their beds, they were supporting the attack of a small country halfway around the world from them, dropping more bombs on that tiny country than were dropped in WW2.
    That’s the problem with cowardly Americans. If they just would hole up in their own homes, wrapped in plastic and duct tape, and mind their own business, it wouldn’t be so bad.
    But there are millions of people who have died due to American cowardice, and American willingness to kill others in order somehow to feel safer in their own lives.
    Millions of people, minding their own business, going about their daily lives, living, loving and raising kids, only to have it all ripped away by US bombs or drones.
    It’s actually worse than embarrassing. It’s shameful.

  601. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 5:08 pm #

    ProCon said: “the US burns 25% of Earth’s carbon”
    =======================
    You have thrown this out several times, but I’ve never seen you cite a source.
    In 2009 U.S. coal consumption decreased by 10.7 percent
    In 2009 U.S. coal exports decreased by 27.5 percent
    In terms of consumption, the USA consumes about 14% of the world total.
    So, I’m just wondering where you get 25%. Perhaps that was true in 1975, but China and India are the up and coming consumers now. The USA is in decline.

  602. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    Wage said: “Actually, three million Vietnamese people lost their lives, asoka…”
    ====================
    If you up it to 3 million, I believe you have to include the illegal bombings and incursions into Laos and Cambodia.
    But your point is well taken. I was just including combatants, not civilians. We murdered a mess of people with indiscriminate carpet bombing. We certainly were not “holding back” or being held back by congress. It was damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead. And we lost the war.
    As Martin Luther King, Jr. said on April 4, 1967:
    “My government, the most violent in the world”

  603. wagelaborer December 7, 2011 at 5:23 pm #

    I think it was Robert MacNamara who used that figure, years after the war ended, of course.

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  604. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 5:36 pm #

    e

  605. charliefoxtrot December 7, 2011 at 5:39 pm #

    whew, i don t know how you missed it- i was trying to tell you it was a dream, an impossible dream…i have, however, heard the rumor floated somewhere that ‘they’ are building a craft in orbit to transport ‘the best and brightest’ out in it…shades of douglas adams indeed- what if they are, and will tell us they re going to mars, only…i say begone, and good riddance!

  606. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 5:42 pm #

    lbendet said: “a TV commentator stated that the poorest Americans are better off than the poorest in third world countries.”
    =====================
    Whoever said that has not lived for any extended time in the third world. Ask Welles. Ask Dee Jones. I can confirm there experience because I lived among the poor in the so-called “third world” and they are much better off than their USA counterparts. In my own experience when I gashed my head open and had to go to a rural hospital I received top quality medical service from a nurse who cleaned the wound and a doctor who stitched me up. Because there is universal single payer health care, I paid less than three dollars co-pay for emergency room care, including the pain killers they gave me. Can’t even get the pain killers for less than three dollars in the USA. Of course those third world countries don’t spend half their budget on military/defense and they don’t try to maintain hundreds of military based all around the world.
    I look forward to the day the USA rises to the level of third world status and gets its priorities straight.
    Being big consumers and having lots of toys (and debt) does not mean you have a higher quality of life than the third world.

  607. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 5:43 pm #

    There’s always a reason to interfere overseas. Why are we risking WW3 by encircling Russia with missile bases and a proposed anti-missile shield? Iran. Oy Veh. Oh yes, Iran – which has not one warhead or a missile to carry it.
    Dude, they’re liars who do not represent our history and tradition. When the Russians tell us to git as we did them, will we? I don’t it – too arrogant.
    Meanwhile our gallant “ally” Israel has over 300 in violation of international law. They have threatened to incinerate Europe if things don’t go their way. But you’re not interested, are you?

  608. charliefoxtrot December 7, 2011 at 5:46 pm #

    that amount of soybeans would be harvested with one combine…the farmer probably couldn t afford the diesel…or maybe had his finances with corzine

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  609. charliefoxtrot December 7, 2011 at 5:53 pm #

    of course, it s entirely possible he has futures contracts or whatever that failed to realize his profit margin, and they ve just been abandoned…i know, right?! but it happens…

  610. myrtlemay December 7, 2011 at 5:57 pm #

    “God, sometimes it’s SO embarrassing to be American.”
    Sometimes?!

  611. BeantownBill December 7, 2011 at 6:01 pm #

    It’s quantum mechanics, you know, the field where nothing is definite, just probabilities?

  612. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 6:05 pm #

    Have you started Pat’s new book, Suicide of a Superpower yet? The subtitle is interesting: Will America Surive To 2025. Sir John Glubb would say yes, just. Check out his small work The Fate of Empires. He studied various Civilizations, and found that regimes or dynasties (not the Civilization itself) almost always ended after about 250 years. So 2025 is his date as well. Interesting if Pat came up with it independently.
    Here it is:
    http://people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf

  613. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 6:11 pm #

    It’s religious hocus-pocus, with invisible particles instead of invisible deities…
    But it does allow people to get big research grants from the Church of Science, I mean “Big Science,” the dominant paradigm of the 21st century.
    http://www.garfield.library.upenn.edu/lilscibi.html
    I am not anti-science, but I am anti-scientism, anti-materialism (thinking only matter exists).
    In any event, I prefer science be in the service of humanity, science that meets basic human needs related to housing, clothing, food.

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  614. old69 December 7, 2011 at 6:11 pm #

    As a corollary, if everything is a brain, an observer, an abstract or potential observer, then the universe is not space – time but a monolithic slab of BRANIUM consisting of all the points in space and time, and all of the possible ensembles and delimitations across all the combination of points being brains, observers, etc. But if everything is a brain – observer, what are they decoding and observing ? other brains, themselves, the condensation of matter into pure consciousness, but many multiples of a never ending orthogonal array of minds, experiences and brains, Information Relationship.
    But if everything is brains, there is no external reality, all is just a mind, a slab of mind. Tis a job for TOBOR THE EIGHT MAN! What does he suggest ? he suggests to keep an open mind, keep on experimenting, don’t let the green nature lovers stop you…
    TOBOR THE EIGHT MAN

  615. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 6:12 pm #

    Why don’t you two get a room and explore the issue? Or just move to Canada.

  616. old69 December 7, 2011 at 6:14 pm #

    That was from:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177441

  617. turkle December 7, 2011 at 6:20 pm #

    The religious hocus pocus of Quantum Physics is directly responsible for the technology that drives the entire electronics industry, including the production of the computer upon which you posted your *guffaw* critique of it. Are you aiming for irony today?

  618. myrtlemay December 7, 2011 at 6:20 pm #

    I don’t think they’re letting us in anymore 🙁

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  619. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 6:37 pm #

    including the production of the computer upon which you posted
    ===================
    You mean the production wasn’t done with Newtonian physics? Are you sure? Production is physical and does not really on “fuzzy” math or “fuzzy” physics.
    I don’t have a quantum computer, do you?
    My computer is not non-deterministic or probabilistic. My computer does not have the ability to be in more than one state simultaneously. My computer knows its states and is very determined.
    🙂

  620. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 6:40 pm #

    CORRECTION
    Production is physical and does not rely on “fuzzy” math or “fuzzy” physics.

  621. charliefoxtrot December 7, 2011 at 6:43 pm #

    Q-check: you gonna take this one?

  622. lbendet December 7, 2011 at 6:44 pm #

    A.,
    I totally agree, that’s propaganda. But that said, They feel no compunction about reducing most of us to poverty and that’s their rationalization.

  623. dale December 7, 2011 at 6:48 pm #

    Sorry to burst the bubble, but a lot of sci fi is the equivalent of modern mythology.
    ————————————–
    Until it’s not, then it becomes science. It’s happened so often in history, citing instances should be an insult.
    Science is a moving target Turkle, and if anything is obvious it’s that you are not a scientist yourself. Scientists seldom have your reverence for the current state of understanding, which given our 400 years of experience, is pretty limited.

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  624. charliefoxtrot December 7, 2011 at 6:56 pm #

    anybody think the us will really get into syria? or maybe head south into kenya, somalia and the rest of africa? seems like it would provide a bit of a boost for the war machine, and didn t they just discover oil in the region? i know there isn t nearly as much fun as there is in syria and iran, but there also isn t the chance of “fighting” russia AND china at once…i m really puzzled, and worried there might be some, as yet, unexplained reason for all the sabre-rattling over the ME- i mean, surely everyone knows that historically, china at least will blow up the world before they back down and lose face to us

  625. turkle December 7, 2011 at 6:57 pm #

    Note that I made a qualified statement, dale. All I mean is that taking something like Star Trek and assuming we’ll have it all someday is a tad naive.

  626. turkle December 7, 2011 at 7:00 pm #

    You know what I meant. Don’t get overly semantic on me. Quantum Mechanics includes the concept of electron tunneling, which is crucial to the function of modern microprocessors. And the transistor comes out of research that ultimately traces back to Quantum Physics.
    So are you expressing your belief in Newtonian physics but not the Quantum variety?

  627. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 7:38 pm #

    So are you expressing your belief in Newtonian physics but not the Quantum variety?
    ================
    Belief in Newtonian physics? Yes. Belief in Quantum physics? Yes. One of the greatest features of science is that it works as an algorithmic process of belief revision. No scientific belief can be said to be absolutely true, no matter how convincing it is. This is how science compensates for the faith it requires.
    All scientific beliefs are wrapped in a protective condition: A scientific belief can only be true if the basic assumptions of science are true, and absolute certainty cannot be obtained due to the problems inherited from subjectivity. All scientific statements have a built in emergency exit! Beliefs are able to change in light of new evidence or ideas.

  628. progress2conserve December 7, 2011 at 7:51 pm #

    “the US burns 25% of the worlds carbon”
    -P2C-
    This was true until about the year 2000, but no longer is. Nice catch, a..
    CO2 emissions are mostly produced by burning petroleum or coal. The US has not dramatically reduced it’s consumption of oil or coal since 2000.
    However, the Chinese have DRAMATICALLY increased their use of oil and coal since 2000.
    As of 2008, the PERCENTAGE of CO2 emissions from the US has decreased to 18% of the world’s total.
    This is mostly because Chinese CO2 emissions have very rapidly increased to 23% of the worlds total.
    And none of this takes into account the fact that some? of the pollution and CO2 from China is due to factories that have been running full tilt to SATISFY the US consumer. (in other words – we’ve exported responsibility for some of our carbon emissions to China)
    http://en.wikipedia.org
    wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions
    This link looks funny. May not post correctly.
    Per capita CO2 emissions analysis to follow later this evening.

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  629. Glensufi December 7, 2011 at 8:04 pm #

    I tend to agree it’s very late in the game and per CM’s little illustration of exponential drowning in that metaphoric stadium it may be much later than we realize even among those paranoid cf’ers and that would include me. Still we may be wrong about the timing and severity and maybe there are some white swans lurking in the space-time. I know I know.

  630. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 8:06 pm #

    CO2 emissions from the US has decreased to 18% of the world’s total.
    =========================
    So, ProCon, does that mean if a Mexican wades across the Rio Grande there is a chance that his or her act of becoming an immigrant to the United States might not make the Planet uninhabitable? 🙂

  631. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 8:09 pm #

    White swans! I love it.
    The chance of a White Swan Event should be equally probable to that of a Black Swan event, if not more probable.

  632. ctemple December 7, 2011 at 8:11 pm #

    Maybe an entrance exam is needed to run for President. The country screens other things, like a bar exam for lawyers, a police academy for cops, an exam to become an accountant. But anybody with money and an ability to repeat themselves can run for President. An entrance exam might put a stop to people like Herman Cain thinking Uzbekistan was somebody he went to grade school with and stuff. Or Michelle Bachmann thinking John Quincy Adams was old enough to be important in the Revolutionary War.

  633. k-dog December 7, 2011 at 8:15 pm #

    But which fox will be guarding the henhouse?

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  634. progress2conserve December 7, 2011 at 8:19 pm #

    So – everyone wants to know how much CO2 is emitted by a typical US resident, as compared to a typical Chinese resident, or a typical Mexican resident.
    This goes directly to a conversation Turkle and I had, just today. And it comes up frequently on CFN, when immigration is discussed.
    Here are the figures – in TONS of CO2 per resident per year – as of 2008.
    US – 17.5 tons per resident per year
    China – 5.3 tons per resident per year
    Mexico – 4.4 tons per resident per year
    So – every person who emigrates out of Mexico and into the US, automatically increases his impact on Global CO2 emissions –
    by a factor of FOUR TIMES.
    (17.5/4.4=3.97)
    You see what I mean, Turkle. A Mexican resident has one-fourth of the impact on the Planet – year after year after year – just because he stays home with his family.
    ========================
    You guess somebody ought to give the Sierra Club these numbers. Nah – they sold out long ago.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita

  635. xhalor December 7, 2011 at 8:19 pm #

    Anyone who cannot parallel park should not allowed to be president. That includes you, Mr. Hawking.

  636. ront December 7, 2011 at 8:22 pm #

    I have seen the video many times. I agree that casting a vote for the “viable” candidate as proclaimed by the talking head election handicappers is a bad joke.
    Without instant runoff/ranked voting staying home has more meaning.

  637. xhalor December 7, 2011 at 8:25 pm #

    Ist das nicht ein Internet?
    Ja! Das ist ein Internet!

  638. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 8:27 pm #

    The Heart beats on the Left even if it is centered. Likewise, we mustn’t be afraid of “Fascist” of Leftist tendencies. All Democracies so called or Republics organize in times of crisis, be it natural disaster or war.

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  639. ront December 7, 2011 at 8:31 pm #

    Thanks for this link, Ib. I listened to a 16 minute radio interview that at one point had me laughing harder than I have in quite awhile. Well, yesterday now that I think of it. :o) It’s in the second part of the talk when he is asked what he would do if Kucinich were elected Pres and he appoint his economic adviser, and specifically regarding the certain members of the Supreme Court. I hope I didn’t ruin it for you.
    http://MICHAEL-HUDSON.COM/

  640. anti soak December 7, 2011 at 8:43 pm #

    Mexicans who movehere have larger families than ones who stay in Mexico…or so Ive read.
    Heres how the Lamestram Media frames the Immigration [cough] Debate:
    From Yahoo News.
    POSTVILLE, Iowa—A group of Jewish boys in yarmulkes and winter coats walked past the “Taste of Mexico” restaurant on Lawler Street last week on their way home from school. Minutes later, a Somali man wearing a keffiyeh scarf around his neck passed by, perhaps on his way to the town’s makeshift mosque on Main Street.
    This ‘improbably diverse rural town’ of about 2,000 people in northeastern Iowa suffered a near-fatal shock more than three years ago when a federal immigration raid scooped up 20 percent of its population in a single day.
    An ultra-Orthodox Lubavitcher Jewish family from Brooklyn bought the town’s defunct meatpacking plant in 1987 and attracted workers from Israel, Eastern Europe, and Latin America.
    The plant became the largest producer of kosher beef in the world. When the plant was raided one spring morning in May 2008, most of the workers on shift were Guatemalan and Mexican, and undocumented.
    Many workers later said they had been physically or sexually abused at the plant, and at least 57 minors were illegally employed there, some as young as 13.
    Six months later, the plant shut down abruptly. Sholom Rubashkin, the chief executive, was convicted of fraud and sent to prison. The national and local news media documented the near-demise of the town that followed, as businesses were shuttered overnight and hundreds of homes abandoned. The town shrank to nearly half its former size, as many of the illegal immigrants who were not netted in the raid left out of fear or because they couldn’t find a job

  641. progress2conserve December 7, 2011 at 8:44 pm #

    “Most people focus on the illegals. You’ve made the legals your cause celebre and now presto, the illegals are now the good guys. America is a broken record:” -vlad-
    I didn’t say the illegals were “the good guys.”
    But focusing on illegals devolves immediately into the racist blah/blah/blah name calling that asoka. and a couple of others (well, mostly asoka) engage in every week regarding immigration on CFN.
    And illegal numbers are TINY compared to what’s coming our way over the next 25* years. Focusing on LEGAL immigration is an attempt to cut through the Gordian Knot – take the United States to a goal of “Replacement Level” immigration – and maybe save some of the US from some of the coming die-off.
    *25 years –
    Time to collapse matters.
    If it’s one year – immigration doesn’t matter.
    If it’s 50 years – the US will be such a big unmanageable disaster – that I’ll be glad I’m gonna be dead.
    It’s gonna suck for the kids, though.

  642. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 8:45 pm #

    Blago goes down for 14 big ones. But his hair still looks great. His wife is standing beside her chimp.

  643. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 8:55 pm #

    every person who emigrates out of Mexico and into the US, automatically increases his impact on Global CO2 emissions – by a factor of FOUR TIMES. (17.5/4.4=3.97)

    Nifty misuse of numbers, ProCon. You trying to impede dialog?
    As soon as a Mexican crosses the border, are they given a 4,000 sq. ft. McMansion? No. Are they given a gas guzzling SUV land yacht? No.
    See the fallacy in your numbers? Chances are the immigrants will migrate to large cities and will be sharing one housing unit (8 to 10 persons sharing rent), will be taking public transportation (buses, subways, etc.)
    Now do you see the fallacy in your numbers?
    Even immigrants who have been here years and are established are not rich enough to afford the inefficient carbon-hungry life-style of the foolish gringos.
    Immigrants I know, who do eventually buy a used car, buy an economical car not a large gas guzzler that they cannot afford to put gas in. They never buy the big McMansion. They share an apartment and share transportation. They don’t have three-car garages in the suburbs, they do not provide every teenage child with their own car.
    Now do you see the fallacy of your numbers?
    I could go on illustrating the differences, but I think you get the idea.
    Billions of dollars are sent back to Mexico because the immigrants have no intention of trying to become gringos. What they want to do is support their own families in Mexico and save enough money to be able to buy a “casita” or “ranchito” in Mexico and get the hell out of this country, where there is so much discrimination against and hostility towards immigrants, with laws like those in Arizona and Alabama, with Obama gone wild deporting people, and with groups like those you belong to and support financially, ProCon.

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  644. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 8:56 pm #

    You didn’t have to say it – it’s how the ordinary human mind works. Who cares if People like me call them names – it’s what they do and don’t do which matters. Just to play Devil’s Advocate and do what you just did but in reverse: the Legals are law abiding and highly educated. They pay their taxes and keep their lawns clean. Good neighors who become good citizens. And they’ll stop coming on their own once we’re a 3rd World Country. So we wont have to be mean and manly and deport them. Whereas the illegals will keep coming as long as America is better than a worsening Mexico – a very long way to fall indeed.
    So what if Whites become a minority? Who says a Nation needs a center? So what if it no Nation has ever survived the death of the Founding Race -we’re Americans! No laws, including the laws of mathematics, genetics, economics, and physics apply to us.

  645. DeeJones December 7, 2011 at 9:00 pm #

    “The good news this week is that there may be a habitable planet only 600 light years away. I hope Richard Branson gets to work on commercial space travel to the planet (Kepler 22 B) real soon. Maybe we can get the hell out of here while the getting is still good.”
    Ummmm…. like you will be able to afford a ticket? Or even be offered one? Why do you think the

  646. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 9:08 pm #

    What are you some kind of Anti-Semite or somthin? Jews CANNOT do anything wrong. They are the Chosen and everyone else merely exist to serve them as per the Talmud.

  647. DeeJones December 7, 2011 at 9:09 pm #

    “Saudi oil production has topped 10 million bpd. Perhaps Matt Simmons was wrong about ‘Twilight in the Desert.”
    But it was supposed to be over 12MBPD by now. Seems they can’t make that anymore. Have they peaked?
    All these Q’s & more can be answered over at TOD.
    :}

  648. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 9:10 pm #

    Let’s sign up – and become the new Adam and Steve.

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  649. progress2conserve December 7, 2011 at 9:13 pm #

    “See the fallacy in your numbers? Chances are the immigrants will migrate to large cities and will be sharing one housing unit” -asoka.-
    First of all – I thought all the immigrants were out in the fields “doing work Americans won’t do” and “keeping us from starving.”
    Now you’ve got them in the cities – driving cabs Americans won’t drive, I guess. And doing nails Americans won’t do. Amazing.
    ===========================
    And actually – Mexico has a large first world economy. Those people in “first world” Mexico don’t emigrate. So the ones who do immigrate are responsible for far LESS of Mexico’s 4.4 tons of CO2 per person per year, than are the emigrees.
    Fallacy of numbers cuts both ways.
    ———————
    ——————–
    And I do think, asoka – that you harm the thread when you make yourself the Sole Appointed Spokesperson For Growth And Immigration into The United States.
    Pretty much no one but you ever responds in the negative to me about immigration. Turkle did today. Mila51 did once.
    I think the thread must be in general agreement with me on the topic – but who can tell, since you answer EVERY single question – before anyone else can get to it.
    Let some other people have a chance to respond, why don’t you? Maybe someone will think of something that you have not thought of.
    Maybe we could both learn something.

  650. charliefoxtrot December 7, 2011 at 9:16 pm #

    i submit that it doesn t matter if the bird is sick (legal or not); and since using “LEGAL” every time looks to some like ‘thou protesteth too much’ about the whole racism issue- which only muddies the issue, you might consider the simple expedient of just saying ‘immigration’…and you may remember i ve already told you i understand the distinction; i m only trying to help- so please don t feel attacked…personally, i already feel the same way on some of the issues you raise, and have felt the pinch in my wages since the mid- 90’s, so i for one don t give a flying fuck at a rake if i m undercut by a green card or not…any way, poice out…

  651. Vlad Krandz December 7, 2011 at 9:22 pm #

    Those billions of dollars being sent over the border belong in our Economy, Soaker.
    Those millions of jobs belong to Americans, Soaker.
    Blacks usually vote for their interests – much smarter than goofy Whites who vote in terms of everything under the sun – ideology, human rights, ecology, Blax, racoons, etc. But on this one, Blacks have let their hatred of Whites blind them to their best interestes. No group is hurt more by the Mexican invasion than Blacks. And that’s both in terms of unskilled labor and competition at the social trough.

  652. xhalor December 7, 2011 at 9:23 pm #

    Oh, you were so close. Gotta have bodies if you want to occupy. Yeah, I know. Look at how they acted in Iraq. It should tell you that the people in charge really are the product of the upbringing and really don’t have a clue. Including Kucinich. I kinda’ liked him. Hope he doesn’t have an airplane accident.

  653. progress2conserve December 7, 2011 at 9:35 pm #

    “So what if Whites become a minority?”
    -vlad-
    Vlad, that’s been baked into the cake since the 1965 immigration law and the laws that followed.
    Whites WILL become a minority in the United States.
    I think – like everything else, surprise, surprise, that a White minority country is less of a problem at 350,000,000 residents instead of 500,000,000.
    But then I tend to believe lower population makes ALL US problems better.
    ———————–
    Asoka. does provide a useful service. There really are lots of folks in American life who will not be happy until we descend into 3rd world miasma*. There are many others who think Whites can never suffer or give up enough to make up for the period 1776 to 1864, those 88 years when ALL of the World’s mistreatment of minorities became the fault of Western Culture and the United States.
    I feel doomed. Nobody gloat too loud.
    *miasma – I know there are wonderful and redeeming characteristics to be found in 3rd world countries. But I’ve got a suspicion that those characteristics will not transfer to the US very well. We’ve got too many TV’s. And too much fast food. And shift work and long commutes.
    Why would anyone really want to come here?
    Spread the word, people.
    And I guess I’ll see you at the ramparts, Vlad.

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  654. asoka. December 7, 2011 at 9:39 pm #

    What I notice is that when I present arguments for immigration, and I presented ten in one previous answer, instead of responding to the substance of my post, you attack me personally, speak of me in the third person to warn everyone about Asoka.
    It is not true that I respond to every post you make. I have often let your posts slide, but there comes a point when I choose to respond. And I respond with facts and numbers and logical arguments because I believe you are harming the United States with your anti-immigrant attitude and your anti-immigrant actions.
    Y tus supuestas razones por discriminar contra los imigrantes son infundadas.

  655. xhalor December 7, 2011 at 9:43 pm #

    Look! Tim Geitner’s holding the door! Y’all come in and just fuck like crazy. Isn’t a miasma that champagne cocktail with the fruit added?

  656. xhalor December 7, 2011 at 9:52 pm #

    And another thing. I’m kinda pissed that there are black and white pictures circulating of me getting beat up by Indiana cops in the 70’s protesting for African American rights. What? We’re protesting for the Hindus now? Can you wait till I get my bandages off?

  657. progress2conserve December 7, 2011 at 9:53 pm #

    “and since using “LEGAL” every time looks to some like ‘thou protesteth too much'”
    -CF-
    I actually started that, on here, about 2-3 months ago. A couple of people made comments to me that showed they were completely and hopelessly conflating immigration and illegal immigration.
    One of them was SNAFU, very intelligent man, now missing from the thread.
    And unfounded charges of racism leveled against a white man – do piss me off – because they stop all honest discussion, in politics where I live and work.
    And racism comes up almost immediately – when discussing immigration – because of the illegals, who are not LEGAL, btw. hah!
    It’s an endless circle jerk in Georgia and National politics. But I believe that DOOM is starting to breath heavily, as though it may be close to climax.
    Anywho – thanks for the input, CF.

  658. hlqlanlpvj December 7, 2011 at 9:57 pm #

    EveryLittleThing????????????????GA?“ISIS × EveryLittleThingLINK UPCM”???????????NA????????????“??????”CM????“??”GA??????????TA? “?????SAN DA???? ??? s?????????KA?GA???????????????????????TA?????TA??GA????????? ?????????????NA???SAN??????????????????????????????????TA“???????GA???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????12?9?23:00????TBS????“A – Studio?”????????????????????????????????NI NA?????????????????????????????????????????????TA????????WA 15???????????????31???31?????????????????? ?????????????????????65000??????????????2004???????????????????????????????????????“??”?CD?????????ELT?2 GA???NI????CD???????????????????NI??NA???????????12?10??????N????????????????????????“???DA????????????“???????????????????????“E??????”??“E???????????”NI??6?2010??????????“??????????DA????”??????????????RO???N??????2?????TA??????????????????????? ????????????????NA???????????GA??????????????????????????????????????TA?????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????“????????”??????????????????[EveryLittleThing15thAnniversaryPremium2days?naEverLasTing2012?]????DA???NA?????????????????????????????TE???????????DJ???KI?ELT?????????????????????“ClubELT”?“ELTPIANOBar???”NA??????????N??????????????????????TE???????? ??? s????????TA?????????????????????????????RU????????? NewSingle“??”2011?12?7?????[CD + DVD] AVCD – 48265 / B / ? 1,890??????[CD] AVCD – 48266 / ? 1,050?????[??] 1.Landscape2.Landscape?AKAKAGE sAcousticWinter3????GA???momentofcelebrationremix?RemixedbyQ; indivi?4.Landscape???? ???1.Landscape?MusicVideo??????EveryLittleThing???????????EveryLittleThing?????????EveryLittleThing??TE????????EveryLittleThing15thAnniversaryPremium2days?naEverLasTing2012????????“??DA??”????????????????????“ISIS”????????

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  659. progress2conserve December 7, 2011 at 9:58 pm #

    Whatever.

  660. xhalor December 7, 2011 at 10:01 pm #

    Sting-a-ding-ding!

  661. progress2conserve December 7, 2011 at 10:10 pm #

    Y siempre será el impedimento residente, el Sr. cortar y pegar, y el halcón círculos de la corrección política – en cualquier idioma.

  662. xhalor December 7, 2011 at 10:17 pm #

    I’m looking out over the veldt. The zebras are hangin’ out with the Zebras, giraffes with giraffes, wildebeasts with the same, lions, well, no one really hangs out with the lions. Wonder why the monkeys are beatin’ up on each other. Oh yeah, intelligence.

  663. xhalor December 7, 2011 at 10:27 pm #

    You’re not a blogger. You’re an institution.

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  664. BeantownBill December 7, 2011 at 10:28 pm #

    That’s assuming the figures are accurate. Where does the 10 million bpd figure ultimately come from? The Saudis?

  665. xhalor December 7, 2011 at 10:38 pm #

    Bill, Bill, Bill,
    Tell me for I do not know. Has Saudi Aramco allowed an independent audit of their petroleum holdings?

  666. charliefoxtrot December 7, 2011 at 10:53 pm #

    most of those arguments were fallacious at best, at least in my experience here in my city…ok, so they have a bunch of roommates- notice the trend is greatly expanding among most of the 99? look, all the arguments about work we won t do are bullshit, the problem is that given sovereign borders, and corporations driven by the bottom line, the immigrants are being used as levers to greatly depress wages for everyone- while prices have gone up it is so entrenched and tacitly approved by all but the working class, that anything short of a fundamental and systemic reset- in all the governments involved, and in the ultranational corporations, is too little, too late- if even enough i m not the first to posit here that if everyone was making a decent living AT HOME, then the little bit of population shift ocurring in various countries would be a non-issue…leaving the more important issues to work on

  667. xhalor December 7, 2011 at 10:59 pm #

    This a the prelude to an earlier quote. From Richard Pryor:
    “Shortage of white folks. Y’all quit fuckin?”
    What’s happening to Japan? What’s happening to western Europe? A thirty year mortgage in the face of sporadic employment.

  668. budizwiser December 7, 2011 at 11:00 pm #

    This weeks rant takes me back to the days of “whitewater.” The pubs managed to spend 400 million figuring out that billy and hillary were doing the same crap as themselves.
    Kinda reiterating my rant since 2008 – which laws get enforced and which ones get ignored.
    Yeah – crazy times indeed. And the craziest part – getting the rest of the fucking crowd to even notice……….

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  669. xhalor December 7, 2011 at 11:02 pm #

    You simply MUST give me odds on Corzine.

  670. budizwiser December 7, 2011 at 11:18 pm #

    what – no problem – nothing to see here…????

  671. charliefoxtrot December 7, 2011 at 11:25 pm #

    the occupy movement is the first comprehensive attempt in this country to try to address the economic disparity WHICH IS AT THE ROOT OF ALL THE ILLS AFFECTING THIS WORLD…so whatever one thinks of any individual involved, one must give due credit for their trying to do something about it… wal-street was only the beginning, now occupy mainstreet, then congress, the whitehouse, and the supreme court…GSA must be taken back by We The People, just like it says in plain language in the Constitution…

  672. charliefoxtrot December 7, 2011 at 11:31 pm #

    $600,000,000 to one he laughs all the way to purgatory- like them odds?!

  673. xhalor December 7, 2011 at 11:34 pm #

    You better believe I give those ballsy young mofos credit. Let me know when the assembled ranks are at one million. Spent some time in “their” jails. At my age, I’m not in a big hurry to revisit that. At one million, I think I can slip away.
    To fight another day.

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  674. xhalor December 7, 2011 at 11:38 pm #

    The real horror is in my beliefs. There is no purgatory. To me, looks like he got away with it.

  675. charliefoxtrot December 8, 2011 at 12:28 am #

    i know, that was just an expression

  676. Vlad Krandz December 8, 2011 at 12:35 am #

    Yes and I despise the Republicans on this one in particular. For years they were lax saying it will never happen. And then they flipped and started saying it was inevitable – and they became intensely interested in getting their vote – which they can’t unless they BECOME the Democrate Party. They should have become the de facto White Party years ago but instead they became what the late Sam Francis called, “the Stupid Party”.

  677. charliefoxtrot December 8, 2011 at 12:46 am #

    i just clicked on jerry up there ^, and it goes to a blog called eye on washington, right? so i m reading an article about purosefully defaulting on underwater motgtages, and it poses the statement that if you don t agree with honoring a debt, click here: well, it is a fascinating article about the history of “odious debts” which, among other things, posits that bush & obama administration officials are LEGALLY, PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL MONETARY DEBTS INCURRED which harm us, the citizens, including but not limited to, that spent on agressive wars…like i said, fascinating, and there s much more; i HIGHLY recommend taking the time to read it…

  678. ctemple December 8, 2011 at 12:46 am #

    One thing I’ve always wondered in these arguments about immigration is why the leftists never blame the Mexican upper classes or the Mexican government for not providing employment opportunities and education for their poor citizens. There are some very rich people in Mexico, billionaires, why aren’t they ever blamed?
    Instead it’s always the American middle class that gets hammered by the liberals. They’re selfish, they’re racist. Why not ever blame the people who are actually responsible?

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  679. charliefoxtrot December 8, 2011 at 12:54 am #

    i for one always have; it doesn t take much of an intellect to realize that you would be coming here yourself, in their shoes…

  680. AibohphobiA December 8, 2011 at 1:19 am #

    Just for everyone’s info, the comment posted by ‘VNRWANDKHB’ seems to be a spam advertisement in Japanese for knockoff watches and handbags.
    You can copy some of it and paste it into ‘Google Translate’ if you like.
    Talk about suspension of civilization…

  681. ront December 8, 2011 at 1:31 am #

    Not particularly new information for this blog but well presented.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ-J91SwP8w

  682. Bustin J December 8, 2011 at 2:11 am #

    Vlad sez “He found most Nations (distinct from Civilizations) last 250 years give or take a few. Ten generations. We are on this exact trajectory so we will split up by 2025 or so.”
    OK theory except America didn’t start fighting aggressive wars until the Mexican-American war of 1846. Therefore this century or at least the first half is in the bag for us. We’re still fighting offensive wars.

  683. ctemple December 8, 2011 at 2:22 am #

    Intellect my ass, you missed the point completely.

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  684. Vlad Krandz December 8, 2011 at 2:58 am #

    Ever see the movie waiting to exhale? But first you have to inhale. The blood needs oxygen as does the brain. People live on dead aire. How can they think true thoughts?

  685. Vlad Krandz December 8, 2011 at 3:10 am #

    Our borders are broken and we are beset by Warrior Bands. Imperial Hubris keeps us in far off lands while we should be here defending our borders and expelling the barbarians. It is late in the Day – the light is on top of the buildings and in the gathering shadown hideous forms are coming out of the decayed structures. Run if you value your lives. Leave the decaying cities to the Mongrel Monsters they have created. Seek the Wastelands. Our Ancestors grew strong in the ice and snow and so shall we. And – someday, a chastened and strengthened Race shall take back the lands their corrupt ancestors gave away so glibly for a mess of pottage.

  686. Vlad Krandz December 8, 2011 at 3:22 am #

    You may offer up a valid objection his theory though. Perhaps we could say America is falling rapidly but the NWO is still trying for World Conquest and fighting offensive wars. This is obviously outside the scope of his theory. But as I mentioned to Bossier, the situation is far beyond that of one Nation – the whole West is involved and is threatend.
    Again the parallel of China: even after China was united, many Dynasties came and went. Same with Ancient Egypt. But China is still going strong but Egypt began to sicken long ago – the last couple of Dynasties were too weak to throw off foreign influence and influx. Finally it fell and never regained its autonomy. I fear the same for us. The Ptolemies were a Greek/Egyptian amalgam. The Romans ended that and brought in ultimately a new Culture of Christianity. And then Islam after that. Of Ancient Egypt, all that is left are the Tombs, Statues, and Pyramids. What will be left of us?

  687. AMR December 8, 2011 at 3:41 am #

    I’ve occasionally been present for similar tirades, although minus the battery, on public transit. My all-time favorite was a nonstop discussion on the LA Metro Blue Line, all the way from Metro Center to 103rd Street, about ghetto-ass bitches who know they ugly, whose hair always gonna be nappy, and who need a whack on the head. When I heard the words “she just a ghetto-ass bitch!,” I immediately broke into a beaming smirk because the lady had described herself and her friend to a T. Another classic involved a lady on the SEPTA 61 bus in Philadelphia, which runs along the truly ghetto-ass Ridge Avenue through postwar Dresden hellholes like Strawberry Mansion, yelling, “I’m gonna cut that bitch! I ain’t gonna do any damage, but I’m gonna cut that bitch!” The driver was disgusted with her but too mild-mannered to follow through on his threat to eject her from the bus. When she finally got off the bus, having stood in the doorway for maybe ten seconds offering some final thoughts about that bitch who needed to be cut, one of the two very quiet elderly black gentlemen sitting near me said to the other one, “It figures that she lives in the projects.”
    The critical thing about SEPTA drivers is that they don’t mind talk but don’t tolerate action. You may be able to get away with yelling about cutting that bitch, and you can definitely get away with yelling harmless psychotic musings about the family that you used to have on Torresdale Avenue, but if you so much as jump fare the driver will have cops on the bus in two minutes, tops. There are probably as many violent people on SEPTA’s buses as there are on its subways, but there’s almost no violence on the buses because the hoodlums know that there’s a teacher at the front of the room who doesn’t like the students acting out.

  688. AMR December 8, 2011 at 4:16 am #

    There’s also a broader point that I’d make about the difference between rudeness and violence. The nutcase at Lunardi’s seems to have straddled the line. Being pegged with a cup of coffee by an openly foulmouthed wingnut may technically be violence, but it doesn’t necessarily pose a threat to life or limb.
    On the other hand, actual physical contact isn’t necessary to establish a clear and present threat of violence if the aggressor is demonstrating other clearly belligerent behaviors, such as obstructing a street, throwing punches at a bicyclist and calling him “Whitey.” I was on the receiving end of exactly that at the corner of Frankford and Venango Avenues in NE Philadelphia in 2007. Granted, that’s a place where the White Man best be out by sundown, but the real blame of course lies with Crouching Hoodlum, whom I saw hide in front of a minivan before jumping out at me, and his buddy. I never did that sort of thing to blacks visiting my part of Center City from the ghetto when I lived there, so I expected ghetto residents not to do that sort of thing to me when I’m in their neighborhoods; this wasn’t an expectation in the sense of my being surprised that thugs might jump me, but in the sense of my believing that thugs belong in prison for jumping strangers. Luckily, these dudes knew better than to be the prime suspect for Whitey lying in a pool of blood on Frankford Avenue, even if they liked the idea in principle, so they stood down in a hurry when I shouted for the police.
    One thing that really scares me is cops who automatically assume that anyone with his hands in his pockets is reaching for a gun. I saw an Arcata police officer, Ron Sligh, do that last night in the course of his unduly aggressive response to a call from two bar bouncers who were pissed off at a customer who was yelling at them for having thrown him to the floor without provocation. Sligh seems to be one of those hotheads with no interpersonal skills or street smarts who just shouldn’t be a cop. I’ve always gotten a weird vibe from him, but last night he was a lot worse than usual. Unfortunately, he isn’t the only thug that POST didn’t strain out during the application process.
    The huge problem with cops behaving rudely in such situations is that their offices and their weapons carry a tremendous implicit threat of violence, one that is easily carried out without cause by those who are stupid or malicious. Undisciplined cops scare me a lot more than a shit-talking lady wielding a coffee cup at the deli.

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  689. 8man December 8, 2011 at 7:11 am #

    Correction on previous post:
    (by the way, where are all the hot ladies, I liked it when they attacked me, since I am a loser, a miserable loser…come on San Jose Mommy and Alexandra talk to me please, pretty please (NOT!) crack open your skulls and stick a lot of wild stuff in it sluts…) QUO VADIS BABY ?…(as in towards the end of Last Tango in Paris…)
    “which means that the particle’s faster-than-light motion means that it “arrives” before it “left”.
    It gets worse when you pull in standard Relativistic Quantum Mechanics about density, length, and mass increases in particles of non-zero rest mass (the neutrino is about 1.5eV). Any nonzero rest mass goes to infinity when speed C is reached, density becomes infinite, and size becomes zero. In other words, this neutrino becomes a SINGULARITY.”
    It is not absurd, only our mind – logic – language and neural circuits are not capable of making any possible sense of it, sense for us, for how we are, for our “Intentionality of Use”, for how the logic is inserted in an already completely constructed logical system (requiring millions of circuits and years of life to develop).
    The EFFECT BEFORE THE CAUSE is outside of our range of understanding, it is not the universe that is limited, but our manipulation of the universe, our understanding and logical description of the universe that is limited and will always be limited by the limited number of neural circuits and the limited combination of concepts our mind, in this present design, can conceive.
    Therefore, change the Man Brain, design a new one, etc.
    Bustin, are you sill a tree hugger ? Do you still like nature ? You must be educated: kill nature, crack open the earth, burn the world, pollute, nuke all, get nature running wild, kill kill kill nature once and for all, turn america into one giant car engine cracking the earth and polluting like crazy, hate nature with all your guts, how I love to hate nature and punish nature, kill it fast, nuke the sun, nuke all, destroy, etc. show nature who the boss is!
    As in unresolved conflicts, as in self against self, always more unresolved conflicts, ever more, internally torn.
    Don’t be a scaredy cat, build those trillions of cadillacs and skyscrapers, do it man, don’t be a nature lover fairy, pua, pa, pa, pa chicken, pua, pa, pa, pa chicken, kill nature, be a man, don’t be a girly girl fairy protecting “mother” nature… fairy, you mair, you fairy, pua, pa pa, pa …

  690. 8man December 8, 2011 at 7:14 am #

    That was from:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177441
    Warning ! Warning! This thred has been officially hijacked by TOBOR AN APE MAN!
    TOBOR AN APE

  691. lbendet December 8, 2011 at 8:32 am #

    A response to C. Temple
    Why are we blamed for Mexico’s problems?
    And by the way, we seem to be moving in the same directions. The banks stopped loaning to our small business in 2008, which is why so many of our business failed, or laid off people. (that’s after the tax-payers bailed them out) Mexico’s banks don’t lend to those who want to start businesses. The rich are getting richer…you know what I’m getting at.
    There are lots of reasons why Mexico didn’t develop a strong middle class, but although the rich in Mex. do nothing to help their country, NAFTA didn’t help and then moving away from there and going to China instead, didn’t help.
    Under our influence they developed factory farms in our image and many farmers went out of business.
    The drug issues are horrendous, but don’t think someone here isn’t making oddles of bucks while money laundering in the oh, so lawful banks.
    The fault lies with the internal politics, and economics of the country to begin with, but we sure made it worse.
    It’s globalism at work and that’s our crazy ideology which we’ve imposed on everyone else in the world. Mexico just gets to be lucky to border our country.

  692. charliefoxtrot December 8, 2011 at 9:31 am #

    did not; if the mexican elite and govt didn t have a tacit agreement with our own to keep conditions so deplorable for the little guy in order to maintain the status quo; then most would feel no need to come here to make a living…if that isn t what you meant; would you please elaborate?

  693. asoka. December 8, 2011 at 9:36 am #

    Ignoring for a moment a war that forcibly took land from Mexico, and a bogus treaty that was changed to continue taking land from Mexico, there are things happening today which places the blame on the United States for Mexico’s problems.
    Today Mexico is in a fight for its life because of the drug war. The United States is to blame in two ways: supply and demand. USA southbound weapons trafficking (the supply side) fuels the war in Mexico, and USA drug trafficking (the demand side) fuels the war in Mexico.
    Drug traffickers in Mexico are motivated by the demand for illegal drugs in the United States and that those same drug traffickers are armed by the transport of weapons from the United States.
    It’s not as simple as saying “Why don’t Mexico’s rich do something?” We are creating the corrupt rich in Mexico through our USA drug culture.

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  694. k-dog December 8, 2011 at 9:45 am #

    Yes, your right I would probably be denied a ticket but as it turns out the planet is unfit human life anyway because of high surface gravity.

  695. progress2conserve December 8, 2011 at 9:59 am #

    It really is interesting to observe the “news” with detachment, and see the agenda that is behind it.
    For example, FOX News is doing their best to anoint Romney, over Gingrich and Paul. This piece by Geraldo Rivera – is aimed at the more “liberal” Republicans – or maybe at the errant Democrat, who happened to wander into FOX News Latino.
    Rivera did take one really cheap shot at Gingrich, but something that only the most “intelligent?” of Republican primary voters is likely to understand.
    “It is doubtful that Newt Gingrich has ever spent quality time in a ‘really poor’, inner-city public housing project. He probably has more first-hand knowledge of the hallowed ground under Pickett’s doomed Charge at Gettysburg in 1863 than he does about low-life in high-rise poverty in New York or Chicago in 2011”
    Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2011/12/08/geraldo-rivera-newt-gingrich-bold-but-dopey/#ixzz1fxG2dXqr
    We’re doomed, I realized last night. Four more years of Corporate Obama, or four years of Romney – either outcome is another big nail in the coffin for America’s middle class – regardless of race, creed, or color.
    BTB, you’re right. Voting the rascals out is not a solution. Which one of those ideas, 1-10, is your BEST idea?

  696. charliefoxtrot December 8, 2011 at 10:06 am #

    pro: some thoughts on the subject: when i first started reading this site, i thought that, while personally agreeing with some of your views, you were beating a dead horse in the sense that, while valid, they re not the most urgent issues facing our society- so why keep bringing it up when people are losing their homes and healthcare and everything else…i used to think that since we live in a society that is so fucked up on so many fronts we couldn t possibly fix it all at once, therefore we would have to pick a starting point and fix each issue separately- nearly an impossible task; we re fucked…the realization is that each problem has its section of population that is most affected, and we need “specialists” as it were, to gather a following and that when enough people to make a difference become aware and willing, then a sort of natural selection will determin in which order we do fix things- and not necessarily one at a time…this is to say that i realize that your repetition is exactly what is called for; each issue we face needs a champion, and those issues that resonate with us the most will be addressed as they rise in the consciousness and are given the focus and attention of We The People at large…so carry on, macduff, with not just my tolerance but acceptance and well wishes, even if the agreement on ideology and methods is not total

  697. progress2conserve December 8, 2011 at 10:17 am #

    “they became what the late Sam Francis called, “the Stupid Party” -vlad-
    Indeed, Vlad. And along the way Republicans turned independent minded Christians in a once prosperous middle class – into the Blunt Instrument known as The Moral Majority, or some other such name.
    YOU let it happen – all of YOU who swallowed and enabled the Globalist and Corporatist agenda of Neo-Con Republicans –
    While voting for the worst of ANY of these Right Wing sleezballs – in a pointless effort to “save the fetuses” and “stop gay marriage.”
    Bah!

  698. progress2conserve December 8, 2011 at 10:27 am #

    “carry on, macduff, with not just my tolerance but acceptance and well wishes, even if the agreement on ideology and methods is not total”
    -CF-
    Thanks, cf, I needed that. And here is the place, CFN, to point out your own REASONS for disagreement on ideology and methods. (like you did yesterday re “LEGAL”)
    That’s the way consensus is formed – and perhaps the way disaster is averted.
    That’s why it is very helpful when asoka. stops dominating the CFN thread like he owns the place –
    This lets more nuanced disagreements bubble into the conversation.

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  699. dale December 8, 2011 at 10:28 am #

    White swans! I love it.
    The chance of a White Swan Event should be equally probable to that of a Black Swan event, if not more probable.
    ——————————————
    I agree, both are possible, but those who suggest we have plateaued, in terms of technological progress, have no idea what they are talking about.

  700. dale December 8, 2011 at 10:32 am #

    but instead they became what the late Sam Francis called, “the Stupid Party”.
    ——————————
    Actually, more the “Stupid Whites Party”.

  701. tegmark December 8, 2011 at 10:38 am #

    In BRAINIUM everything is an observer, everyhing is a brain, a brain is observing Information relationships which themselves are other brains and processing the signals with circuits which themselves are new modified brains (everything is a special modified brain executing a special observations (according to how that new brain is designed and how it reciprocally explores and interacts and fits in its environment according to its quirk design) upon a universe with new laws of physics and new experiences),every atom, every elementary particle is an observer – brain. But the information itself it perceives and outputs in reaction is itself ever new brains, ever new observers, a never ending array of universes.
    But if the observer sees the universe with their brains, and the signals and information received and emitted themselves are brains, then the information must become real through event circuits that execute some reality condensation through pain/pleasure systems or similar (since information (brain types) is just denotation (other brain types, etc.), symbols, pictures which by definition do not exist in any possible way except as ghosts), but this is not the naive infinite world model of quantum mechanics, it is a world of denotation become real, through observers, each observing each other and creating new realities because each brain – observer is a new universe.
    BRAINIUM – that material where every elementary particle, every entity discernable, inventable, immaginable, everything you see, any combination of things and concepts and ideas, any possible relationship you can invent, all Information Relationships, no matter how unrelated and far off, every combination of entities, photons, atoms, electrons, every possible thing is a specially designed brain observing a new universe. Out universe is one huge monolithic slab of BRAINIUM.
    That chair plus the pebble 100 miles away plus a chunk of the Sun plus the square root plus a number plus 69 plus 8 plus a book is one particular brain, is one particular observer viewing a new universe, is a singularity, and Instant Singularity achieved living a full real life in a new world…now invent any other combination, we live in BRAINIUM
    Am I doing ok now San Jose Mommy and Alexandra ? Is my homework good enough now ? can I go out to play in the backyard now ? or must I stay and continue to finish my homework ?…
    AN APE

  702. charliefoxtrot December 8, 2011 at 10:39 am #

    some of us think it s directly related to our social progress, or lack thereof, that plateaued (Q?) long ago, and that technological progress means less than nothing if we don t get our act together…pick a metric, suh, and see if i know what i m talking about…

  703. charliefoxtrot December 8, 2011 at 10:52 am #

    …and regarding tech progress, we might be better off in the new paradigm to “regress” to a more simple time frame, in terms of re-learning some basics: like how to use hand saws, axes, planes and chisels for woodworking instead of power tools- which will be increasingly useless in an elictrically starved world…or how to set up a passive solar still and water heater for drinking and bath water, for the same reason…do you know how to can food on a fire in the yard? it aint easy, but it can be done…how about using a mirror to communicate from hilltop to hilltop? the zombies are coming…can you kill, butcher, and preserve a deer without refrigeration? it involves a fire in the yard…shall i go on, or do you really believe the juggernaut will just keep stumbling into the future, fueled by some magic alternative to the depleted resources around us??! lemme know how that works out for ya…

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  704. ozone December 8, 2011 at 10:54 am #

    Be apprised,
    We are truly besieged by distractionary fuckwits who willingly play the propaganda con game on us, in the guise of “sincere interlocutors”.
    Case in point: the laddie and his self-referential unholy trinity (of which he be the titular head).
    I must take firm issue with P2C on this. Collectively, “they” add nothing to the pondering of what really happened to bring us to the very edge of collapse (and soon to spill over). About the only thing of “value” they bring is how to spot a tool of the status quo (which is killing us, BTW). Guess what? It wasn’t the stupid, lazy brown folks that did this to you.
    THAT IS A DISTRACTION. (Which is exactly what the scum who have risen to the surface want.)
    Charlie’s response to Caleb was entirely reasonable; we’re not stupid enough to believe that the Mexican oligarchs are benevolent saints who care deeply for their resident underclass. The deplorable state that Mexico is in, is due to a lack of justice! Welcome to the preview of the FUSA.
    We know who’s responsible for this global clusterfuck, and I’m not about to be “convinced” otherwise by useful tools of the plutocrats.
    Here’s one for those who actually “get it”.
    The rest can slumber on and blame precisely the wrong people for their multiple troubles. Keep your places in line to kiss the ring of those who despise you…
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29915.htm

  705. ozone December 8, 2011 at 10:58 am #

    Ps. The article brings us back around to the topic at hand for the week! Isn’t that a strange and delightful twist of fate?

  706. ront December 8, 2011 at 11:03 am #

    Truth at its core ages slowly. The precepts in this portion of Meher Baba’s message to America, circa 1930’s, will be very familiar to all who share on this blogsite.
    The root of all our difficulties, individual and social, is self-interest. It is this, for example, which causes corruptible politicians to accept bribes and betray the interests of those whom they have been elected to serve; which causes bootleggers to break, for their own profit, a law designed, whether wisely or not, to help the nation as a whole; which causes people to connive, for their own pleasure, at the breaking of that law, thus causing disrespect for law in general, and increasing crime tremendously; which causes the exploitation of the great masses of humanity by individuals or groups of individuals seeking personal gain; which impedes the progress of civilization by shelving inventions which would contribute to the welfare of humanity at large, simply because their use would mean the scrapping of present inferior equipment; which, when people are starving, causes the wanton destruction of large quantities of food, simply in order to maintain market prices; which causes the hoarding of large sums of gold, when the welfare of the world demands its circulation….

  707. Widespreadpanic7 December 8, 2011 at 11:10 am #

    Vlad right now I’m finishing up Mark Steyn’s ‘After America’. Next is Buchanan’s book.
    Hey Vlad you’re a bright guy with a remarkable store of knowledge. I don’t understand your hostility to Israel. I’ve never seen anywhere Israels threat to “incinerate Europe”, as you put it. Israel is a decent western country and a good ally to the United States, perhaps our best ally. Plus it seems like the only western country left with any balls. Israel has been threatened by Iran (I’ve heard it) and, facing this existential threat, has a right to defend herself. Amindinijad probably should have kept his mouth shut. Once before the Jewish people were threatened with destruction and nobody took it seriously (at last initially).
    –WSP7

  708. ozone December 8, 2011 at 11:13 am #

    Ront,
    I do believe you’ve pretty much laid it all out in a very concise manner there!
    It’s always self-interest vs. the commonweal, ain’t it? (I sometimes wonder how badly we really want our species to survive. The cult of ME doesn’t seem to be helping our collective chances.)

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  709. charliefoxtrot December 8, 2011 at 11:16 am #

    “…as long as the animus of the middle class is focused on the poor, the criminal cartel known as the economic elite can continue to ply their trade of course, in reality, by their greed and complicity, what the middle class has gained is this: trustee status in the capitalist workhouse” fuck, that s what i ve been tryin’ to put into words! brilliant, and long overdue…

  710. ozone December 8, 2011 at 11:21 am #

    Yes, I share your frustration of erudition and satisfaction of the “eureka” moment! ;o)

  711. ozone December 8, 2011 at 11:24 am #

    (And THAT’S why Corzine is still at large…)

  712. charliefoxtrot December 8, 2011 at 11:32 am #

    i ll be repeating it; i just wish i knew how to cut and lift on this stupid little smartphone!

  713. bossier22 December 8, 2011 at 11:48 am #

    There is no question that all of western civilization is threatened. If it falls, another dark age will be upon the world. In more ways than one.
    We brought it on ourselves beginning with the destructive european civil wars of the twentieth century. I’m afraid that the only that will be done about it is blogging. Not very effective.

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  714. k-dog December 8, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    Ozone, something relevant to CFN, that’s refreshing.
    It’s good to see something that explains the long emergency and our failure to act so well.

    Although, there is no need to fret: The run of neoliberal capitalism is about over. Don’t mourn: This late stage, rapacious, mutant economic strain has leveled destruction on community and the planet itself as well as the hearts and souls of too many of those imprisoned within its paradigm.
    At this point, the situation comes down to this: paradigm shift or perish.

    Good work man.
    Now if we can get people to understand that the oppressed class, the great majority (us) is not conscious of itself as a class. The numerically smaller oppressive 1% however is fully aware of itself as a class and maintains ascendancy by acting in a purposeful and concerted manner.
    Only then can the weight of the majority matter.

  715. bossier22 December 8, 2011 at 12:17 pm #

    Are the 1% that smart or are they sowing the seeds of their own destruction. It seems to me when everyone prospers more the 1% would benefit more in the long run. I guess none of us think long term in this paradigm.

  716. charliefoxtrot December 8, 2011 at 12:35 pm #

    the magician that is the archdruid has a pretty well written essay yet again, which kind of ties in to this week s theme over at the archdruid report it s as concise and astute an explanation of the root of our woes as any i ve seen…procon, i d especially recommend you read it if you haven t already…

  717. k-dog December 8, 2011 at 12:56 pm #

    bossier22,
    With all due respect I have to point out that you are thinking in a logical, normal manner and show excellent intellectual powers in making your assertion.
    However you are wrong.
    They don’t think that way. The 1% is concerned with maintaining power as their top priority because then they will always get what they want. They may may have to make their percentage or cut bigger and others will suffer but they will get what they want as long as they have the power. Behaving in a more egalitarian manner would actually reduce their cut. High unemployment is good for the bottom line of those who employ.
    Obama apparently was even thinking our unemployment was a sign of high productivity and a good thing for example. Observance of popularity ratings and upcoming re-election apparently has caused a change in tune.
    What you assert only applies to people who want to share.

  718. asoka. December 8, 2011 at 1:05 pm #

    Israel has been threatened by Iran (I’ve heard it) and, facing this existential threat, has a right to defend herself.
    ===================
    Existential threat? LOL!
    What Amindinijad said was that eventually the current Israeli government would “fade away” which is a statement of fact, not a threat.
    That was two years ago and “fade away” (which will eventually happen) was translated as Iran will “wipe Israel off the map” (which did not happen).
    Iran is not a threat to Israel. But I can see the USA attacking Iran, and USA sons and daughters will willingly go off to fight and die, and then they will be called heroes.
    Those military sons and daughters need to know what Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler
    has to say about American military adventures.

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  719. asoka. December 8, 2011 at 1:18 pm #

    Wars can easily be started with lies.
    You get the public all excited and whip up a patriotic fervor, and then you attack … Remember the Maine! (1898), Reichstag Fire (1933), Operation Northwoods (1962), Gulf of Tonkin (1964), etc.
    Widespreadpanic7, I think you are ready to support Israel in a war with Iran … as soon as a credible pretext for war is found. It is so easy to manipulate the gullible sheeple.

  720. jesuswept December 8, 2011 at 1:27 pm #

    I had the good fortune to hear Jill Stein speak last week in the SF area. What a breath of fresh air! Took me back to the days when real progressive leaders took a stand, and it meant something.
    If you want to make a difference in this election, and take a stand yourself, check out http://www.jillstein.org

  721. asoka. December 8, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    That’s why it is very helpful when asoka. stops dominating the CFN thread like he owns the place – This lets more nuanced disagreements bubble into the conversation.

    Thanks for the compliment, but I could not “dominate” CFN even if I wanted to, which I don’t.
    The fact that nuanced disagreement surfaced is evidence that my posts do not dampen nuance.
    But I’ll tell you what, ProCon. I’m going to take some time off CFN and observe how the conversation goes. Just because I like you, as a person.
    Write it down, Q. Asoka said he is taking some time away from CFN Dec. 8, 2011, 1:30 pm Let’s see how long he lasts.
    Have fun, CFN-ers!

  722. dale December 8, 2011 at 1:37 pm #

    some of us think it s directly related to our social progress, or lack thereof, that plateaued (Q?) long ago, and that technological progress means less than nothing if we don t get our act together…
    ———————————
    Well said, and I wouldn’t disagree. I’m agnostic when it comes to the future, far as I’m concerned it can go either way.

  723. dale December 8, 2011 at 1:52 pm #

    I’ve just had an experience some of you might find illuminating.
    I’ve had a sore on my tongue for sometime, had it biopsied and got the results Monday. Squamous cell carcinoma……not good. Didn’t actually see the Doc until this morning, before them my wife doctor and I perused on-line medical texts and determined I had a 50-50 shot at living 5 years.
    Try that one on for size!
    The last few days has taught me a lot about what to spend your time worrying about and what to hit the delete button on…..to put it mildly.
    Today the Doctor tells me my personal tumor is both small and superficial, chances: 95+% over 5 years. I like those odds, not much different than what I might get for just walking around breathing at 61 years, I figure. I’ll get surgery next week under general, due to the gag reflex. Probably drink my meals through a straw for a week and have trouble eating for another, but that’s life.
    Moral of the story: 1.) Don’t put too much reliance on what you read on-line, even when an expert helps you find it. 2.) Walk around with it present in your mind every day that life is short, and could be a lot shorter than you imagine……remember that you are not the exception…..behave accordingly.

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  724. 8man December 8, 2011 at 2:05 pm #

    Mommy says I have to finish my homework: so then in BRAINIUM, if everything is a brain (a processor), then even any event itself is a brain, even any sequence of events, a 2 hour movie is a brain, but then all brains are interacting (as Mass Energy colliding as Information Relationships achieved instantaneously) and creating new brains, but if all is brain – processor what is the object ? if all is subject what is the object ? if all is a function, what is the function operating upon ? other brains, and remember a brain is understood as a modified brain perceiving a completely wildly different universe with wildly different laws of physics and experiences, but all those entities themselves are brains in a hyperbolic abstraction towards infinity. New laws of physics are new brains…
    So keep on combining new designs of new brains, the 2 hour movie plus a sequence of random symbols plus a chunk of mars plus a mountain is a brain B1, the events of 2 million years on Venus is a brain B2, but B1 processes B2, and B2 processes B1, B1 and B2 collide, interact, each is a new universe for each other, all new brains and universes, all modified minds, stick wild things in brains, change all.
    TOBOR AN 8 MAN

  725. Vlad Krandz December 8, 2011 at 2:06 pm #

    Same here, just one book ahead. Buchanon’s is superb. He knows far more than he says, but what he says is enough to earn him the hatred of all Jews everywhere. Have you never heard about the U.S Liberty, the ship that was bombed for over an hour by the Israeli Air Force? Johnson was informed what was happening and he didn’t want to embarass an “ally” and he said let them sink it. Luckily his order was ignored and fighters proceeded to the site. The Israelis fled before they got there. The ship was almost sunk with heavy casualties. Officials from the U.S State Dept visited the wounded in prison and threatened them with ruin if they ever breathed a word about what had happened.
    Martin Van Crevold, an Israeli Military Historian said suggested that Israel might bring on WW3 if things go bad – including incinerating Europe. They have the means. There have been other rumblings in this direction as well. Do they speak for the top brass of Israel? Not officialy of course, but unofficialy?
    They have stolen our secrets and sold them to other nations. They firebombed the our Embassy in Egypt hoping to blame on the Egyptians – so as to get us into that war.
    I hope you google the U.S Liberty. But you must know already that Pat agrees with me and not you on the basics of foreign policy.
    The challenge that Sir John Glubb presents to me is fascinating. Even if the Jews had not been present to corrupt Hollywood and the media and open our gates, we still would corrupt and die within 250 years. Most of the Civilizations Glubb studied didn’t have a Jewish problem – so some other group played the role of tempter and betrayer – or just a group within the People themselves. I’ve studied Conspiracy for years now but it obviously not primary – morality is. The Jews only did what our corruption allowed them to do. Most of the European Nations suffered from them at one time or another and had the gumption to throw them out. We lacked the moral fiber and now they control us.

  726. 8man December 8, 2011 at 2:08 pm #

    That was from:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177441
    A new brain is W£URUU%UN%NUNN, what is that doing ?

  727. Vlad Krandz December 8, 2011 at 2:10 pm #

    Oh you’ve read your Michael Moore! Good boy. Nice self hating White White Racist. You sick bastard.

  728. anti soak December 8, 2011 at 2:19 pm #

    WELCOME TO MEKKA:
    The day of the massacre freakin Obama said
    ‘Let us not rush to judgement’
    now this………’workplace violence’ as muslims over run USA..or we die as they try to:
    Lawmakers Finally Call Out Obama Admin for Calling Ft Hood Jihad ‘Workplace Violence’
    Posted on December 8, 2011
    Back in August 2010, Creeping Sharia posted this: DoD’s final report classifies Fort Hood jihad as “workplace violence”.
    Sixteen months later in December 2011, Lawmakers Blast Administration For Calling Fort Hood Massacre ‘Workplace Violence’ | Fox News.
    Sen. Susan Collins on Wednesday blasted the Defense Department for classifying the Fort Hood massacre as workplace violence and suggested political correctness is being placed above the security of the nation’s Armed Forces at home.
    During a joint session of the Senate and House Homeland Security Committee on Wednesday, the Maine Republican referenced a letter from the Defense Department depicting the Fort Hood shootings as workplace violence. She criticized the Obama administration for failing to identify the threat as radical Islam………………

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  729. Vlad Krandz December 8, 2011 at 2:19 pm #

    The Sages believe in private property as Yogananda made very clear. Absolutely necessary at this stage of Evolution. Because I’m me and you’re you, we can have a relationship. As Ramakrisna said, I want to eat sugar, not be sugar.
    Mashing everyone together and taking their money for the “greater good” just expands the Egos of the Commie Elite and crushes the Egos of the masses. This delays their evolution since their samskaras don’t have a chance to play out.
    “Hoarding” or wisely saving for one’s self and one’s family? Once you accept their lingo without discernment, they’ve got you. And no race has ever lived that is weaker in this regard than modern Whites. No strength at all.

  730. anti soak December 8, 2011 at 2:21 pm #

    Spell it right, Nimrod:
    Patrick J. ‘Buchanan’ – Official Websitebuchanan.org/blog
    C-SPAN – Pat Buchanan argues that America is disintegrating because of three factors: its loss of the Christian faith; moral and social collapse because

  731. anti soak December 8, 2011 at 2:25 pm #

    A friend [J Fountains his name] did an in depth study of old Letters to [or from? or both]
    Of Yoganandas and claimed yogananda lived ‘like a king’…
    I dunno if its true…
    Check,, Kriyayoga / yogi Ramaiah
    he said a few things about Yogananda!

  732. Vlad Krandz December 8, 2011 at 2:34 pm #

    Again the inch/yard phenomena. You are a hard core bloody bleeding heart liberal. We have not been too hard but not hard enough. On Illegals. On Women. On Abortionists. On Criminals. On Blacks. On Ourselves.
    Any Civilization which accepts the murder of its citiziens while within the womb is an abomination. And why? Because it wasn’t convenienct for the poor little dears. Sluts and their Pimp boyfriends and their Dr Feelgood Docs. Evil all of them. Of course Prog thinks it’s all Great – wants more. Where is you branium? Nay, where is your Fucking Heart?
    You have never responded to my posts about the butcher Lyndon Johnson and his curse about equality of outcomes. I cannot but construe your silence as assent. You, You are the Cause. You writ large, multiplied by tens of millions. Who needs the Jews, we have You. You would have destroyed us in time even without their tender mercies. And now You worry about immigration. Decades after we warned You. Too busy having fun with Your sluts and Your stocks and Your football and Your chainsaw. And what is the most dangerous place on Earth? The womb of a Western Woman be she Black, White, or Brown. Thank You for that.
    Go to Tan Catholic Publishers and buy the book, “Mama, Why Did You Kill Us” – a mothers aborted babies talk to her from beyond the grave.

  733. Widespreadpanic7 December 8, 2011 at 2:41 pm #

    Vlad I know about the Liberty. That was over 40 years ago. it was an accident of war in a Turbulent time. Look what happened several weeks ago in Pakistan when US aircraft strafed a Pakistani convoy and a score of Pakistan soldiers were killed. It was unintentional, just like what happened with the USS Liberty.
    –WSP7

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  734. Vlad Krandz December 8, 2011 at 2:46 pm #

    The Brain on Venus is known to me. The closest word in your language for his name is Zontar.
    Zontar want to know why you did not respond to E’s critique of your bogus science? You come here for dialogue right? Right?

  735. Vlad Krandz December 8, 2011 at 2:49 pm #

    They never apologized did they? And look how “our” Goverment treated to sailors. Johnson wanted to sacrafice them. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

  736. Widespreadpanic7 December 8, 2011 at 2:57 pm #

    Vlad, if you are still here, a few weeks ago I enquired about placer mining in Idaho. Do you see people out there with a pan, knee deep in water? I’ll be headed to the Treasure Coast in Florida this winter;
    looking for a destination for next summer.
    –WSP7

  737. Vlad Krandz December 8, 2011 at 2:58 pm #

    It’s over with Pakistan: they will be side with Russia and China agaisnt us in WW3. I suppose you also think it’s a good idea to ring Russia with missile bases too? America’s going to end up looking like a bad case of acne if we don’t wise up real quick.
    Ron Paul is the only Man who can get us out of this situation. No good long term since he believes in open borders though. But for now his combination of audit the Fed and bring us home is just what we need.

  738. Vlad Krandz December 8, 2011 at 3:03 pm #

    Sorry WSP, I don’t know about that stuff. I’ve read that alot of that is still going on. Dale responded to you and said he sees it too. I’d advise you to pick up one of the treaure hunting magazines for a list of sites. Idaho has alot of mining so I assume that there are places. I read that alot of panning for gold is going on in part of Montana too.

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  739. bossier22 December 8, 2011 at 3:13 pm #

    I’m glad your prognosis is good. That’s some good advice on how to view your days. Some quiet happiness in your own world is more important than these issues we get all up in the air about here cfn. You are right no one is the exception. Have some fun as you go while doing what good you can. even if sometime our definition of what is good conflicts.

  740. Vlad Krandz December 8, 2011 at 3:20 pm #

    The playing out of karmas perhaps. Remember Babaji manifested a palace to satisfy Lahiri Mahasaya. I myself love certain luxuries like real maple syrup. I “must” have this even while I am content to sleep on a mat on the floor.
    Everyman is the King of his own Life as long as he can think, fast, and wait. Did not Siddhartha and Huey Long say as much. And Crowley too? Even Augustine said “Love and then do as thou wilt”. Shades of Crowley.
    Does not this get the heart of the great myth that the Eastern Widom supports Leftism and Collectivism? It is beyond all Goverment and Morality but when it touches upon them – it supports Conservatism in its true forms. Not Libertarianism which would have Porn on every supermarket shelf and illegals on every stoop. And certainly no the war mongering of the Neo Cons either.

  741. Vlad Krandz December 8, 2011 at 3:24 pm #

    Yes good luck Dale in spite of everything. I’m a Survivor – there’s nothing like the thrill of a prognosis turning your life into a horror movie. Death is an ally as Castaneda said. Surely Anti has nothing bad to say about Carlos!

  742. Vlad Krandz December 8, 2011 at 3:45 pm #

    It is said that Ganesh rides a mouse. Surely so does our Industrial Civilization. We must get off our minute steed and enter into the eye of the needle. Thread ourselves. Like the hourglass, things will widen out from there. But for now – make yourself as small as possible. Let the great ones destroy themselves. The meek shall inherit the Earth – which hides their treasure and arms so lovingly within her greenish brown breast.

  743. ak December 8, 2011 at 3:59 pm #

    Looks like no one has commented on the “Fate of Empires” from Vlad’s link. It’s an article from 1976 from a British military officer/historian who spent considerable time in the Middle East.
    He sees parallels in the ’empire life-cycle’ throughout the recorded history. An excerpt:

    XXII The influx of foreigners
    One of the oft-repeated phenomena of
    great empires is the influx of foreigners to
    the capital city. Roman historians often
    complain of the number of Asians and
    Africans in Rome. Baghdad, in its prime in
    the ninth century, was international in its
    population—Persians, Turks, Arabs, Armenians,
    Egyptians, Africans and Greeks
    mingled in its streets.
    In London today, Cypriots, Greeks,
    Italians, Russians, Africans, Germans and
    Indians jostle one another on the buses and
    in the underground, so that it sometimes
    seems difficult to find any British. The same
    applies to New York, perhaps even more so.
    This problem does not consist in any
    inferiority of one race as compared with
    another, but simply in the differences
    between them.
    In the age of the first outburst and the
    subsequent Age of Conquests, the race is
    normally ethnically more or less
    homogeneous. This state of affairs facilitates
    a feeling of solidarity and comradeship. But
    in the Ages of Commerce and Affluence,
    every type of foreigner floods into the great
    city, the streets of which are reputed to be
    paved with gold. As, in most cases, this great
    city is also the capital of the empire, the
    cosmopolitan crowd at the seat of empire
    exercises a political influence greatly in
    excess of its relative numbers.
    Second- or third-generation foreign
    immigrants may appear outwardly to be
    entirely assimilated, but they often constitute
    a weakness in two directions. First, their
    basic human nature often differs from that of
    the original imperial stock. If the earlier
    imperial race was stubborn and slowmoving,
    the immigrants might come from
    more emotional races, thereby introducing
    cracks and schisms into the national policies,
    even if all were equally loyal.
    Second, while the nation is still affluent, all
    the diverse races may appear equally loyal.
    But in an acute emergency, the immigrants
    will often be less willing to sacrifice their
    lives and their property than will be the
    original descendants of the founder race.
    Third, the immigrants are liable to form
    communities of their own, protecting
    primarily their own interests, and only in the
    second degree that of the nation as a whole.
    Fourth, many of the foreign immigrants
    will probably belong to races originally
    conquered by and absorbed into the empire.
    While the empire is enjoying its High Noon
    of prosperity, all these people are proud and
    The Fate of Empires
    14
    glad to be imperial citizens. But when decline
    sets in, it is extraordinary how the memory
    of ancient wars, perhaps centuries before, is
    suddenly revived, and local or provincial
    movements appear demanding secession or
    independence. Some day this phenomenon
    will doubtless appear in the now apparently
    monolithic and authoritarian Soviet empire.
    It is amazing for how long such provincial
    sentiments can survive.
    Historical examples of this phenomenon
    are scarcely needed. The idle and captious
    Roman mob, with its endless appetite for
    free distributions of food—bread and
    games—is notorious, and utterly different
    from that stern Roman spirit which we
    associate with the wars of the early republic.
    In Baghdad, in the golden days of Harun
    al-Rashid, Arabs were a minority in the
    imperial capital. Istanbul, in the great days
    of Ottoman rule, was peopled by inhabitants
    remarkably few of whom were descendants
    of Turkish conquerors. In New York,
    descendants of the Pilgrim Fathers are few
    and far between.
    This interesting phenomenon is largely
    limited to great cities. The original conquering
    race is often to be found in relative
    purity in rural districts and on far frontiers.
    It is the wealth of the great cities which
    draws the immigrants. As, with the growth of
    industry, cities nowadays achieve an ever
    greater preponderance over the countryside,
    so will the influence of foreigners increasingly
    dominate old empires.
    Once more it may be emphasised that I do
    not wish to convey the impression that
    immigrants are inferior to older stocks. They
    are just different, and they thus tend to
    introduce cracks and divisions.

    The entire article is a 26-page PDF.
    -AK

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  744. ak December 8, 2011 at 4:08 pm #

    (sorry to repost, but I see it’s hard to read…)

    XXII The influx of foreigners
    One of the oft-repeated phenomena of
    great empires is the influx of foreigners to
    the capital city. Roman historians often
    complain of the number of Asians and
    Africans in Rome. Baghdad, in its prime in
    the ninth century, was international in its
    population—Persians, Turks, Arabs, Armenians,
    Egyptians, Africans and Greeks
    mingled in its streets.
    In London today, Cypriots, Greeks,
    Italians, Russians, Africans, Germans and
    Indians jostle one another on the buses and
    in the underground, so that it sometimes
    seems difficult to find any British. The same
    applies to New York, perhaps even more so.
    This problem does not consist in any
    inferiority of one race as compared with
    another, but simply in the differences
    between them.
    In the age of the first outburst and the
    subsequent Age of Conquests, the race is
    normally ethnically more or less
    homogeneous. This state of affairs facilitates
    a feeling of solidarity and comradeship. But
    in the Ages of Commerce and Affluence,
    every type of foreigner floods into the great
    city, the streets of which are reputed to be
    paved with gold. As, in most cases, this great
    city is also the capital of the empire, the
    cosmopolitan crowd at the seat of empire
    exercises a political influence greatly in
    excess of its relative numbers.
    Second- or third-generation foreign
    immigrants may appear outwardly to be
    entirely assimilated, but they often constitute
    a weakness in two directions. First, their
    basic human nature often differs from that of
    the original imperial stock. If the earlier
    imperial race was stubborn and slowmoving,
    the immigrants might come from
    more emotional races, thereby introducing
    cracks and schisms into the national policies,
    even if all were equally loyal.
    Second, while the nation is still affluent, all
    the diverse races may appear equally loyal.
    But in an acute emergency, the immigrants
    will often be less willing to sacrifice their
    lives and their property than will be the
    original descendants of the founder race.
    Third, the immigrants are liable to form
    communities of their own, protecting
    primarily their own interests, and only in the
    second degree that of the nation as a whole.
    Fourth, many of the foreign immigrants
    will probably belong to races originally
    conquered by and absorbed into the empire.
    While the empire is enjoying its High Noon
    of prosperity, all these people are proud and
    glad to be imperial citizens. But when decline
    sets in, it is extraordinary how the memory
    of ancient wars, perhaps centuries before, is
    suddenly revived, and local or provincial
    movements appear demanding secession or
    independence. Some day this phenomenon
    will doubtless appear in the now apparently
    monolithic and authoritarian Soviet empire.
    It is amazing for how long such provincial
    sentiments can survive.
    Historical examples of this phenomenon
    are scarcely needed. The idle and captious
    Roman mob, with its endless appetite for
    free distributions of food—bread and
    games—is notorious, and utterly different
    from that stern Roman spirit which we
    associate with the wars of the early republic.
    In Baghdad, in the golden days of Harun
    al-Rashid, Arabs were a minority in the
    imperial capital. Istanbul, in the great days
    of Ottoman rule, was peopled by inhabitants
    remarkably few of whom were descendants
    of Turkish conquerors. In New York,
    descendants of the Pilgrim Fathers are few
    and far between.
    This interesting phenomenon is largely
    limited to great cities. The original conquering
    race is often to be found in relative
    purity in rural districts and on far frontiers.
    It is the wealth of the great cities which
    draws the immigrants. As, with the growth of
    industry, cities nowadays achieve an ever
    greater preponderance over the countryside,
    so will the influence of foreigners increasingly
    dominate old empires.
    Once more it may be emphasised that I do
    not wish to convey the impression that
    immigrants are inferior to older stocks. They
    are just different, and they thus tend to
    introduce cracks and divisions.

  745. Bustin J December 8, 2011 at 4:35 pm #

    8ball said, as I was making motorboat sounds between my girlfriend’s magnificent boobs: “if everything is a brain (a processor), then even any event itself is a brain, even any sequence of events, a 2 hour movie is a brain…”
    Do you understand reductio ad absurdum?
    Multi-billion dollar projects notwithstanding, I think the Large Hadron Collider is a bunch of bullshit that will reveal nothing of interest or use for the general public. But, I am not a physicist. Neutrinos are of zero consequence until someone can show me why I should care.
    Vlad said, “Go to Tan Catholic Publishers and buy the book, “Mama, Why Did You Kill Us” – a mothers aborted babies talk to her from beyond the grave.”
    Stupidity. Catholicism is a subject I am well acquainted with. Scaring people with ghoulish stories is the same whether it is about a man tortured on a cross or the unborn baby crawling out of the Hazardous Waste bin. Fetuses are useless, thoughtless things, and even less significant when they are masses of undifferentiated cells.
    Your fears of the disappearing white race are unfounded. There is a certain mathematical rationale behind the disappearance of a phenotype in a population but Nature doesn’t toss genes out. There will always be white people.

  746. dale December 8, 2011 at 5:15 pm #

    I’d advise you to pick up one of the treaure hunting magazines for a list of sites. Idaho has alot of mining so I assume that there are places. I read that alot of panning for gold is going on in part of Montana too.
    ———————————-
    Drove up to Idaho City back in spring, runoff having major year (primetime for panners) Probably saw 8-10 people along the river, stopped at a Johnny in a rest site, 2-3 people there, all panning, guy with his kids even. Later, figure out that’s probably what they all were doing.
    (Just had a thought some of ya might think seeing 8-10 people along 30 miles of river would be a sign of desolation, that can be a traffic jam in some parts of Idaho.)

  747. anti soak December 8, 2011 at 5:21 pm #

    Ive met ShriBendu, Lahiris great grandson…
    He says his forebearers say the story of the palace is bunk!
    news of the day..all the rapists there are muslims!
    Asok..ya diggin that!
    Oslo’s Epidemic of Rape
    Posted By Bruce Bawer On October 28, 2011 @ 12:16 am In Daily Mailer,FrontPage | 140 Comments
    Back in May it was reported that every rape assault in the city of Oslo in the last five years had been committed by a person with a “non-Western” background – a Norwegian euphemism for Muslim. Now it turns out that there have already been twice as many rape assaults in Oslo so far this year as there were in all of 2010. At least one member of Parliament, André Oktay Dahl of the Conservative Party, calls the situation “critical” and is brave enough to acknowledge that many of the perpetrators come from cultures “with a reprehensible attitude toward women.”
    The Conservative Party has proposed several measures to combat what is being described as a rape epidemic: more money for the police; more police in the streets and doing investigations; faster results from DNA tests; the introduction of volunteer auxiliary police. There is something to be said for these proposals. Policing in Norway is a scandal. This summer it was reported that police departments all over Norway were so short-handed that they were unequipped to deal with the armies of drunks staggering home from bars on weekends after closing time. It was also reported that only fourteen of 430 new graduates of Norway’s police academy had been offered jobs.
    The scandalous fact is that Norway, for all its wealth, has chosen not to invest overmuch in law and order. The very idea is simply too reactionary-sounding for the ’68-ers and their heirs in the political and bureaucratic corridors of power. As I wrote elsewhere a few months ago, “Norway wastes millions of kroner ever year on ‘development aid’ that ends up largely in the pockets of corrupt African dictators; it pours millions more into the pockets of non-Western immigrants who have become masters at exploiting the welfare system; for heaven’s sake, the Norwegian government even funds anarchists. It’s not entirely misguided for a Norwegian citizen to feel that his tax money is going less to fight the crime that threatens his home, his self, and his business than to support criminals.”

  748. anti soak December 8, 2011 at 5:24 pm #

    What is more exhilarating than being shot at and knowing the bullet missed!

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  749. anti soak December 8, 2011 at 5:25 pm #

    I believe Greeks eat little meat and not much beef.
    Yes? No?

  750. dale December 8, 2011 at 5:30 pm #

    BTW,
    If anyone here still believes there is anything that is not possible, look at this:
    http://news.yahoo.com/photos/science-and-technology-1316137522-slideshow/anomalocaris-could-grow-one-metre-long-considered-great-photo-032344181.html
    I mean, god or evolution, take your pick, has some kind of sense of humor.

  751. dale December 8, 2011 at 5:42 pm #

    Vlad,
    Would you consider that creator “white” or “colored”?

  752. dale December 8, 2011 at 5:46 pm #

    I’ve been thinking pure Nordic blood, what with those blue eyes and all.

  753. ozone December 8, 2011 at 5:54 pm #

    Good one, CFT.
    I had forgotten to check his blog this week.
    “…If the industrial economy, as I’ve suggested, was basically an arbitrage scheme profiting off the difference in cost between energy from fossil fuels and energy from human laborers, the rising cost of fossil fuels and other inputs needed to run an industrial economy will sooner or later collide with the declining cost of labor in an impoverished and overcrowded society. As we get closer to that point, it seems to me that we may begin to see the entire industrial project unravel, as the profits needed to make industrialism make sense dry up.”
    -J M Greer
    I think that’s a correct assessment.
    I suggest reading it to consider your next move; if not for yourself, then your progeny and the community they live in.
    http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2011/12/what-peak-oil-looks-like.html

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  754. ozone December 8, 2011 at 5:59 pm #

    Dale,
    Glad it turned out to be not QUITE so frightening as it could have been.
    I’ve had a lot of close shaves, so I [for one] take your final piece of advice seriously.
    All the Bestest!

  755. ozone December 8, 2011 at 6:10 pm #

    Cheese ‘n’ crackers got all muddy!
    Where’d the pump-truck-full of spewage come from???
    Lawdy, lawdy, lawdy! Da brown folk must be on the march!
    Here’s one for the blinkered right-wanger lurking in us all… ;o)
    http://www.oldamericancentury.org/store/images/sailorbewarepromo1.jpg
    (Notice the spelling of “scorching”. See? Them fuckin’ libruls cain’t spell neither! ;o)

  756. ozone December 8, 2011 at 6:18 pm #

    Hey!
    Wha’choo been sampling that allows you to observe the creator of the universe without getting “scortched”?
    (Twisted minds want to know.)

  757. k-dog December 8, 2011 at 6:37 pm #

    I’ve heard that Diviners Sage works for that.

  758. k-dog December 8, 2011 at 6:44 pm #

    Too bad the poster doesn’t explain that VD means Very Deep. Which for the sailor might be a good thing.

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  759. Vlad Krandz December 8, 2011 at 6:50 pm #

    Oslo, Osho – is there any difference? Remember Asoka loves you. Remember Soak – and fight.
    Well who the hell wrote that that? Is Yogananda a liar? Or his editors? Perhaps the Palace was in the nature of a mind formed oject – not real on this plane except to Lahiri himself.

  760. k-dog December 8, 2011 at 6:57 pm #

    Realize though that talking to the creator of the universe is not without risk. The creator might take the opportunity to tell you that she is very disappointing with how you have been spending your time down here on Earth and inform you about what she expects on your return.
    It can happen, it really can.
    Caveat emptor.

  761. Vlad Krandz December 8, 2011 at 7:07 pm #

    Ganesha isn’t a creator God. I assume he’s Elephant Colored.
    Oh btw, I noticed I inadvertently called you a sick bastard after you had posted about your illness. My apologies, I hadn’t read your post yet. I was just responding to your Michael Moore type post and that alone. I don’t care to mock anyone’s serious illness – even though you have wished me sick and dying many times.
    I hope you get well so I can call you a sick bastard again. Let us know.
    I imagine that God is all colors and none – like the Dzog Chen teaches. Color is the Crucifixation of Light and Light the Crucifixation of Being. And Being of Non Being. And Non Being of Itself.

  762. progress2conserve December 8, 2011 at 7:10 pm #

    Dale –
    Scary stuff about your diagnosis – and then your self-evaluation via the internet. Glad you’ve got a better prognosis, now. Good luck with all of it. And, yeah – very good advice about what is important and what is not.
    Of course, I do love a good CFN brawl, whether it is important or not is another question. Even if it’s not important it ought to be enjoyable. Or if it’s not enjoyable it ought to be important.
    Hmm, John Calvin, anyone?
    It might be interesting to you that I’ve been working in and out of my own mild scare over potential prostate cancer for the last couple of weeks. Odds of me having it have ranged from 33% to 17% – depending on which doctor I’ve talked to and what test(s) he’s run. Waiting on one more test – and looking for reasons to avoid doing a biopsy for a while.
    Modern American medicine –
    hurry up and wait –
    get scared as sh*t and hope for the best.
    The whole thing is an adventure I’d rather avoid.
    Anyway – thanks for the advice to the thread, and good luck, Dale.
    Busy here right now. Ozone and Vlad – I’m trying to work up responses to you two, tonight or tomorrow.
    And CF, that archdruid link is a good one.
    And Vlad’s link that AK excerpted twice is also very good – with portents of logically occurring and inevitable doom for the US empire.
    250 years or 10 generations and it’s over.
    We’re close to that, of course – and the UK in ’76 has EERIE parallels to the US in 2012.

  763. Vlad Krandz December 8, 2011 at 7:13 pm #

    Don’t come home from France with the Enemy in your pants. Keep it clean, boys.

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  764. DeeJones December 8, 2011 at 8:12 pm #

    “I’ve never seen anywhere Israels threat to “incinerate Europe”, as you put it. Israel is a decent western country and a good ally to the United States, perhaps our best ally. Plus it seems like the only western country left with any balls. Israel has been threatened by Iran (I’ve heard it) and, facing this existential threat, has a right to defend herself. Amindinijad probably should have kept his mouth shut. Once before the Jewish people were threatened with destruction and nobody took it seriously (at last initially).” WSP7
    Um, they have tacitly admitted to the so-called “Sampson Option” of the use of their nuke weapons. What, you think all those hundreds of nukes are targeted at Arabs? One of their biggest targets if it looks like they are going down is, guess who: Germany! They also have most of the NATO countries targeted too. And why do you think Israel has missiles that can reach the USA? If Israel ever thinks that NATO or the US might, just might betray them, they have the reach and capability to make us pay for it, and are willing to do so. So don’t stupidly think that Israel is only targeting Arab countries. Oh, they also have a few aimed at Russia too.
    As for the so-called Iranian threat, that has been SO misinterpreted that its almost funny now, if people didn’t take the Isralie interpretation as the real one. But its a bogus threat. Iran KNOWS that any attack on Israel would result in their destruction, they are not stupid, no matter how much Isreal want you to think they are.
    Wake up.
    :[

  765. k-dog December 8, 2011 at 8:35 pm #

    Thanks for recommending this weeks archdruid.
    It suggests to me that an orchestsrated response to ‘our woes’ would use incentives and tax breaks to encourage a switch back to manual labor as situations of labor/energy arbitrage emerge. A proactive response would not be to wait for an arbitrage equation to be in the black before a switch was made of course.
    The druid points out that mainstream economics is but one piece of a larger pie of economic knowledge, that was good. I’m reading his reference now.

    I’m looking for articles that can clearly explain why when money is created as debt in a resource depletion scenario only pain and suffering will result. Ones that suggest alternatives are preffered.
    Anybody know of any?

  766. k-dog December 8, 2011 at 8:58 pm #

    Ahhhhhhh — Turns out the druids source is one and ends with:
    We never expected that growth itself would begin to cost us more than it was worth, making us poorer, not richer. But it did. And the only solution our economists, bankers, and politicians have come up with is more of the same! Could we not at least take a short time-out to discuss the idea of a steady-state economy?
    Growth Debt And The World Bank

  767. progress2conserve December 8, 2011 at 9:58 pm #

    “But I’ll tell you what, ProCon. I’m going to take some time off CFN and observe how the conversation goes.” -asoka., to P2C-
    So, OK, ozone – you got part of your wish.
    “Be apprised,
    We are truly besieged by distractionary fuckwits who willingly play the propaganda con game on us, in the guise of “sincere interlocutors”.
    Case in point: the laddie and his self-referential unholy trinity (of which he be the titular head).”
    -ozone-
    Sometimes you’re just a wee bit cryptic for my taste, O3. I’m pretty sure “the laddie” is Vlad, and asoka. was one corner of the triangle in reference. But who’s the other one?
    Me? Mika? Newworld? Bossier? Tegmark? 8M?
    That Oriental Spammer??
    Ah well. I agree with you about asoka., to a large extent. But I disagree about Vlad. First, because Vlad serves to remind the thread that our very own JHK – has his own post-collapse racial concerns. If Vlad has to leave – that means JHK has to quit blogging every week.
    What will we do then?
    You have an adamantly NON-racial view of the world, ozone. That’s admirable, according to everything modern multi-cultural and Politically Correct society teaches us.
    Vlad just raises the question –
    What if these teachings and beliefs prove incorrect, in a contractionary future?
    While asoka., in a couple of his various incarnations, raises the question – is it possible that large subsets of certain minorities in America will NEVER be happy or peaceable – no matter how much they are given?
    These questions matter, ozone – if the lights begin to consistently dim, and civilian authorities begin, consistently, to run short of petroleum.
    Sorry, man. I’ve got to call ’em like I see ’em.
    And, ANYWAY if you want to talk about another topic – hit us with a post, and I’ll follow along if I’m able.
    I like to see this thread get to 1000 posts.
    Even if a lot of them are dribbling drivel.
    (Where is Q, by the way?)

  768. IxNoMor December 8, 2011 at 10:36 pm #

    “I’m looking for articles that can clearly explain why when money is created as debt in a resource depletion scenario only pain and suffering will result.”
    Virtually all of the fiat money today is nothing more than “collateralized debt”, inflationary printing press money to banks at 0% interest, and unbacked “credit default” insurance. Every rat child you pop out of your womb now, is born into an instantaneous “indentured servant” debt of $50k (more like $500k, but *who’s counting*).
    When ~40-50% of the GDP is completely fraudulent/hoax (cooked book numbers via accountant number-crunchers), and the other 30-40% of it is middleman unnecessary services, you are left with only the 10-20% US Govt. spending (and the 10-20% of GDP ANNUAL deficit spending)…
    And, yes, I was abducted. But I escaped *unharmed*!!! LOL, rIIIght… I think I lost *time* tho – heh, believe DAT!

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  769. progress2conserve December 8, 2011 at 10:38 pm #

    “You have never responded to my posts about the butcher Lyndon Johnson and his curse about equality of outcomes.” -vlad-
    Yeah – Johnson was the worst, maybe worse that Reagan, for what his policies have done to this country. So, you’ll never get much dissent from me – bash Lyndon Johnson all you like.
    Then, regarding:
    Too busy having fun with Your sluts and Your stocks and Your football and Your chainsaw.”
    -vlad-
    HEY, VLAD – WHAT THE HELL! I NEVER SAID I LIKED FOOTBALL!! (OK, maybe a little college.)
    One more thing:
    “And what is the most dangerous place on Earth? The womb of a Western Woman be she Black, White, or Brown.” -vlad-
    You’ve been brainwashed on this issue, Vlad.
    How old are you? You must be too YOUNG to know better on this issue – ’cause I know you’re not dumb enough not to know better.
    I’ve posted that link to the Southern Baptist Convention in 1971 – where they said abortion was justified to protect the MENTAL HEALTH of the mother. (translation – get an abortion if you want one – it’s your decision) These men – in 1971 – were the WWII generation. They knew abortion was an OK medical procedure to protect their wives and daughters.
    http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/baptist/sbcabres.html
    Read it if you dare, Vlad – and try to overcome your thaumaturgy on this issue. tm JMG
    Politics – verdammed politics, and nothing else – led power hungry men to USE YOU and some of the rest of unwitting American Christianity – to politicize a private issue – and elect the Bushes and a bunch of congressional republican dipsticks – part of the big reason our country is in a hole we’ll likely never escape.
    I hereby rescend my offer to join you in the ramparts of a White Nation post-collapse.
    Because there would be a break in the shooting one day – and you and I would get to talking – and I’d let something slip that didn’t agree with your brainwashing – and we’d end up clubbing each other with our rifle butts until one of us had a concussion.
    Probably me. I think you must be that much younger, judging by your beliefs.
    ==============================
    BTW, on a friendlier note. Ron Paul’s position of borders and immigration looks pretty good to me.
    He’s definitely getting my vote in the primary.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul#Borders_and_immigration
    And that link AK referenced that you posted is GREAT. Dismal, but great.
    I’m gonna’ try to reread it and work up a post about it tomorrow – if the Spirit moves me.
    This place is gonna’ be quiet without Asoka. and his multitudinous posting. Somebody’s got to try to pick up the slack.
    Ozone?
    Anybody?

  770. progress2conserve December 8, 2011 at 10:56 pm #

    And now that we’ve got a clear channel for a while –
    If anyone would like to engage me over immigration, legal, illegal, or quasi legal – the rest of this week might be a pretty good opportunity.
    I’ve got the facts and figures pretty well nailed by now. And I’d like to hear some NEW ideas in favor of population increase in the US.
    Just something besides:
    economic growth
    platitudes
    ethnic dining opportunities
    If you please.
    =========================
    Turkle – did those figures on a 4 X greater CO2 emissions profile, for US residents vs Mexican residents, corroborate the idea for you?

  771. rocco December 8, 2011 at 11:01 pm #

    Ther are intresting and some good ideas and points of view,BUT I see no writings as of yet about a huge movement towards peak oil collapse, Alec Bladwin and his battle with American Airlines. It is on several times a day on the big 5 news networks, with serious discussions. I hope JHK would discuss this serious occurence in our nation.

  772. IxNoMor December 8, 2011 at 11:07 pm #

    “2-ton death-metal coffins? What are you talking about?”
    Bwahaha!!! *EXACTLY*. 7-15 gallons a week, maybe *more*.
    My youngest bro, ~35 years old, just got foreclosed/bankrupted 1 year ago (thx Obama), yet his wife managed to sucker him into renting @ $2.2k/month a 2.4k sq ft mcmansion, so she could feel *GUD* about parties/gatherings. Of course she still stays at home doing nothing, while he works all day (I don’t even think she takes care of their 4 year old any more – daycare/preschool)…
    FWIW, I have burned 1.5 gallons of gasohol in the past 2 months – that’s pretty good, considering I had to join the family for the Thxgvg event…
    “As for my son, I pointed out that I was against him buying a car, but he works in an industrial park with no housing nearby.
    So he paid cash for a used car.”
    Presumably ~20MPG? No public transport? Sounds like a COP-OUT to me. I rode my bicycle 8 miles round-trip to work for 3 years, and the 4 years prior, I took public transport for 8 miles (1.5 mile walk/bike/rollerblade to/from transit stop each day).
    FWIW, Portland, OR is cracking *DOWN HARDCORE* on bicyclists/skateboarders/rollerbladers in downtown. Expect a $70-120+ ticket, as they cause SOOO many accidents/injuries. That’s *MY REALITY* – what’s *YOURS*?

  773. charliefoxtrot December 8, 2011 at 11:22 pm #

    um, since q seems to ve gone off in a huff, that would be rescind…

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  774. IxNoMor December 8, 2011 at 11:24 pm #

    “Yeah, yeah. Did you have to walk 3 miles in the snow to get there, also?”
    No, not in the snow, but yeah, 3 miles or 8 miles every day.
    Then there was that time, from 2003-2005, where I spent ~$20k of my own money to get a second BS degree, mostly for *fun*. 5 miles every other day, and 50 minutes on light rail to read…
    I wish I could get myself back on one of those exercise programs where I was exercising for a *purpose*, rather than just *because*/./

  775. progress2conserve December 8, 2011 at 11:33 pm #

    rescind
    Ah, very good, honorable protege of Q.
    You have learned well.
    I could have sworn spell check took “rescend.”
    But I just tried to force it through THREE times.
    When I’m wrong, I’m wrong.
    That’s once for this year. hahohe

  776. IxNoMor December 8, 2011 at 11:38 pm #

    “what makes you think the footage was fake?”
    Do a little more than a simple google of the 4th kind movie (fake/hoax keywords help). You will find that they admit all footage in that movie was fake/created after the fact.
    There was no original footage used (was there even ANY original footage?), and the story was significantly modified/sensationalized for movie/video…

  777. IxNoMor December 8, 2011 at 11:40 pm #

    “um, since q seems to ve gone off in a huff, that would be rescind…”
    Hmm, and here I thought it was “resend” – LULZ!!!

  778. charliefoxtrot December 8, 2011 at 11:46 pm #

    increase?! bullshit, we re headed for global pop decline- whether it plummets or slides, peak resources will dictate one or the other now, as to whether starvation or war, or i supose some pandemic, does it really matter? any one of which is equally distasteful…so i for one can t see the justification for pop growth here or any where else…

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  779. IxNoMor December 8, 2011 at 11:57 pm #

    “They thought a person should be able to just eat an apple and be fine for the whole day.”
    Just an apple a day …
    I suggest The following regiment:
    1. Before going to bed, a nice cup of laxative herb tea
    2. When waking up, 32 oz of warm sea-salt water (2 tsp – stay close to the toilet for about an hour)
    3. 4-8 of the following during the course of the day (organic):
    1 lemon juiced
    2 apples juiced
    3 carrots juiced
    1-2 oz grade b/c maple syrup
    1/4 tsp cayenne pepper
    (16-18 oz total – mix/stir and drink)
    4. repeat 1-3, for 10-14 days
    5. come out of it by juicing oranges only the first day, then oranges and vegetable soup 2 more days (some vegetable soup solids the 3rd day).
    The Cure to NAS!!! The black shakes!!!

  780. IxNoMor December 8, 2011 at 11:58 pm #

    Oh, yeah, and hydrate with filtered H2O at will (DUH!)…

  781. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 12:04 am #

    But what about the equal outcomes? That’s the curse – which you seem to believe in.
    What? The Wombs of American Women are terribly dangerous for the babies unfortuanate enough to be concieved therein. Fact. If you want to pretend that they’re not human and only magically become so when the mother decides – well that’s crazy and bad. Next we’ll be putting the old to death.
    How many abortions are really for the mental or physical health of the mother – and not Convenience – a Feminine God? Cop Out.
    Ron Paul changed his stance on borders and now he’s for almost open borders. His weakest postion and your favorite.

  782. IxNoMor December 9, 2011 at 12:22 am #

    “Vlad just can’t get over the fact that it is 2011 and not 1789 and that black people don’t count as 3/5 of a person anymore. Sucks to be him, I guess.”
    LOL, Metric man! You bust me – but perhaps you are not man, but *WOAH* man? Hehe, I jest, anything for a laugh these days.
    No one concerned about my definition of the market? Fine. No one concerned about my definition of global warming == atmospheric thinning/boiloff? Fine. There’s still an atmosphere, so anyone who suggests anything otherwise must be off their rocker. I agree! I *AM* off my rocker!!!
    And it always comes down to the same thang – those poor kids. Will they ever wake up, and see how they’ve been totally sold down the river? *I DOUBT IT*. Not that I’m waging anything on it, but I’m sure there’s lots of $$$ to be made shorting that as well… (Bipolar? LULZ I dunna think so – you popped those rats out – I didn’t).

  783. IxNoMor December 9, 2011 at 1:06 am #

    “But war is not going to happen either, except for the ongoing war in your head.”
    Syria and Iran are merely figments of our imagination! I love you, Soker!
    Only you could spout such ant-war reality, while we roll our troops and stealth remote bombers out of Pakistan and into *VIRGIN* territories!!!
    Google no longer produces search results for the remote control bombing we did in Pakistan for the past 4 years (drone attacks – LOL!).
    Time for some *REAL* remote control:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_gT63JYM1w
    (They stole that 3-man gold uniform from Sha-Na-Na!)

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  784. k-dog December 9, 2011 at 1:41 am #

    You’ve facts and figures you say?
    Ok I’m not trying to put you on the spot. I know this may be too hard but:
    How many Americans over 50 have been forced out of the job market as a result of immigration of all kinds within the last 5 years?
    Redefine the question any way you like to make it answerable. From a personal point of view I’d like to know how many dogs with engineering degrees have been displaced but that’s just me.
    To answer the question about any profession I think we need to know:
    1) The actual demographic composition of the employed members of a profession. Specifically their country of origin.
    2) The actual number of unemployed citizens of working age in the profession.
    A mathematical calculation should then be able to give an answer though I’m sure there will be more to it.
    It could be that the necessary data is unavailable. If that’s the case asking why we don’t have such data is a fair question. If such data is not out there somewhere then somebody has something to hide or the data is not being collected.
    I may be asking too much.

  785. Pucker December 9, 2011 at 1:55 am #

    [Public Service Announcement from The Department of Homeland Security]
    “Dear Department of Homeland Security Partners,
    Today, President Obama released the Strategic Implementation Plan
    (SIP) to the National Strategy on Empowering Local Partners to Prevent
    Violent Extremism in the United States (attached). The SIP is the
    blueprint for how we will implement the Domestic Strategy on
    Countering Violent Extremism (CVE), the first U.S. Government strategy
    to address violent extremism in the Homeland. The SIP lists the
    current and future actions the U.S. Government will take in support of
    a locally-focused, community-based approach, in three broad areas: (1)
    enhancing engagement with and support to local communities; (2)
    building government and law enforcement expertise; and (3) countering
    violent extremist propaganda while promoting our ideals. This is the
    first U.S. Government strategy and implementation plan to address
    ideologically-inspired violent extremism in the homeland.
    This SIP is a follow up to the National Strategy on Empowering Local
    Partners to Prevent Violent Extremism in the United States [
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/empowering_local_partners.pdf
    ], which was released by the White House in August 2011. DHS, along
    with interagency partners, worked with the Administration to develop
    this SIP.
    For additional information on the DHS approach to CVE, see our DHS CVE
    Fact Sheet. [ http://www.dhs.gov/files/fact-sheet-approach-to-countering-violent-extremism.pdf
    ]
    Thank you for all you do to help keep our nation safe and secure.”

  786. anti soak December 9, 2011 at 1:56 am #

    Jim, I bought yr book [WOH] new for 50 cents today!
    And this is from Political Cesspool site…….
    Gee the Jews dont like RP:
    I don’t know what is.
    On Wednesday, Dec. 7, the Republican Jewish Coalition will host a presidential-candidates forum featuring Michele Bachmann, Herman Cain, Newt Gingrich, Jon Huntsman, Rick Perry, Mitt Romney, and Rick Santorum. Not invited is the GOP candidate currently polling around third in New Hampshire and second in Iowa: Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas). The explanation:
    Paul was not invited to attend the RJC’s candidates forum because the organization – as it has stated numerous times in the past – “rejects his misguided and extreme views,” said [RJC Executive Director Matt] Brooks.
    “He’s just so far outside of the mainstream of the Republican party and this organization,” Brooks said. Inviting Paul to attend would be “like inviting Barack Obama to speak.”
    So what are these “extreme views”? Over at The Huffington Post, Dovid Efune, the director of The Algemeiner Journal and Gershon Jacobson Foundation, offers an explanation:
    Paul’s positions on Israel have been almost uniformly derided. Whilst claiming to be non-interventionist on the issue, he has routinely adopted Arab talking points on Israel, even comparing Gaza to ‘a concentration camp.’ His Isolationist mantra may appeal to fiscal conservatives, but in the real world its implementation would create a global power vacuum that would likely be filled by supporters of Israel’s enemies.
    I will patiently await the reaction from the Republican European American ……………..

  787. anti soak December 9, 2011 at 1:58 am #

    Swami Kriyanada is a notorious womanizer.
    I read SRf has changed 100? 1000? parts of Yoganandas life story.

  788. Eleuthero December 9, 2011 at 2:00 am #

    ExtraO said:
    As much as it gives me a morbid chill up my spine, as much as it evokes what one imagines “someone stepping on your grave” should feel like, I have to say that I really “like” this posting. It is your most apropos column in several months. Relatively short, as your best ones usually are, because lots of words aren’t necessary to really lay out a bad situation with the greatest impact. You’ve effectively communicated how the law of the jungle, the Wall Street ethic, has metastasized throughout the American political economy. That’s actually a bit unfair, as the phenomenon is a world wide epidemic. No matter where we are, we’re all “dead men walking”.
    On that basis I suppose I disagree with the last paragraph. There is nothing to be done “in this country”. The country is over. All of the Western world and its imitators is so morally bankrupt, even the countries as currently constituted need to go away in order to permit any enduring replacement to take root; and this process is just now getting up a head of steam. As you say, meaning has been vanquished, so what does “America” mean? Or Great Britain? Or France, Or Germany, or…? Zero, zip, nada; these names are merely place-holders for something that used to be there. Not that what used to be there was all that nifty. Think hard: What does it “mean” to be American in the current context?
    ************************************************************
    I enjoyed your commentary, ExtraO. Mostly, I want to reiterate your sentiment that a “reset” button for the Western World needs to be hit. Europe is easily as corrupt as America. Anybody who’s been to France or Spain or Germany in the last five years can see that their social lives are becoming as FRACTURED as ours. France and Spain used to represent a certain joie de vivre but they aren’t happy campers now. France, in a recent study was co-equal with the USA as the most MISERABLE G-20 countries.
    The financiers are running wild in a manic worldwide kleptocracy and it won’t end until the banking systems of every last first world country stand in ruins. Every gesture made to “kick the can” down the road is only going to make the “grand finale” that much more of a THUD.
    E.

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  789. anti soak December 9, 2011 at 2:02 am #

    Oshos ‘god’ was laughing gas!
    Read ‘The God that Failed’ and the other books that show him to be a greedy fukup.

  790. Eleuthero December 9, 2011 at 2:08 am #

    I saw that poem about Bright, the woman who went away in a relative way and returned the previous night. It’s in a wonderful, fun book by astrophysicist Kip S. Thorne called “Black Holes and Time Warps”. I’ve dog-eared this book because I’ve gone through it about ten times. It not only makes intensely difficult concepts accessible to non-physicists but has wonderful bio sketches of all of the great physicists of the last century.
    It’s a fabulous read and is one of the ten books I would never throw away if I could only keep ten.
    E.

  791. Eleuthero December 9, 2011 at 2:14 am #

    The problem with the whole idea of wormholes is that they require “exotic” matter (matter with NEGATIVE mass-energy) to exist. The other problem is that according to the most recent theories, any two mouths of a wormhole will be destroyed by VACUUM FLUCTUATIONS in a fraction of a second.
    Vacuum fluctuations are virtual particles that arise from NOTHING and whose purpose in nature is to keep a vacuum at an average energy of ZERO. Even in flat spacetime, there are positive and negative energy regions. So, a particle-antiparticle (like an electron and a positron) will self-create in the positive energy region, travel to the negative energy region, and annihilate each other. However, this removes energy from the positive energy region and redistributes it to the negative energy region to make them both closer to zero mass-energy.
    Even empty space is a SEETHING FOAM of virtual particles.
    E.

  792. IxNoMor December 9, 2011 at 2:14 am #

    “Asoka said he is taking some time away from CFN Dec. 8, 2011, 1:30 pm Let’s see how long he lasts.”
    I liek to “reefer” to myself in the third person, also!!!
    Almost 2 weeks now, my Faceplant account should almost be completely deleted. I dare not check back, for fear it revives that worthless connection!!!
    Time to decide where to talk/listen, and where to make one’s self manifest!!! Composting is perpetual – an ongoing battle. Solid carbon takes time to convert… Mulch on top of mulch cannot fail completely, to compost!!! *STIR IT UP*!!!

  793. IxNoMor December 9, 2011 at 3:00 am #

    “The problem with the whole idea of wormholes is that”
    The whole problem with wormholes, is that they require more energy than we can gather, from all the galaxies in this universe.
    I cannot believe you are ascribing to something so unobtainable! Unobtanium, *INDEED*.
    Far closer, you might find *observers*, who *collect data*. They do it day after day, and only interfere if we enter the extreme *Hiroshima/Nagasaki/Bikini Atoll/Chernobyl/Fukushima* utter “fail” regime…
    And here we are – ready to go walk through the fields of Hiroshima or Nagasaki, without any risk whatsoever, only 60 years later (most half-lives are 500-10,000 years for the most devastating radioactive materials [E.G. cessium]). I bask in the bath of Bikini Atoll – what a *mind blower* (only 70 Megatons)!!!
    Maybe we are just becoming a radioactive species? That might make some sense – time to *evolve*. However, I’m not quite sure we can eat radiation for breakfast…

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  794. Pucker December 9, 2011 at 4:20 am #

    “The problem with the whole idea of wormholes is that they….”
    Piss & Moan…Piss & Moan….
    If you don’t have anything nice to say about Physics, then don’t say it.

  795. vnrwandkhb December 9, 2011 at 4:35 am #

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  796. old69 December 9, 2011 at 5:33 am #

    Some points:
    Western Civilization is not collapsing, we are geting richer and richer everyday, every new car produced, every new house built, every new of hundreds of products produced (sofas, beds, movies, books, blogs, techno music, etc.) creates a richer and richer society. We are going forward and getting richer everday, suck it up dude and stop the doomster crap. We will enter an infinite resource society.
    On science:
    “Vacuum fluctuations are virtual particles that arise from NOTHING and whose purpose in nature is to keep a vacuum at an average energy of ZERO. ”
    And why should nature have that purpose ?
    “8ball said, as I was making motorboat sounds between my girlfriend’s magnificent boobs: “if everything is a brain (a processor), then even any event itself is a brain, even any sequence of events, a 2 hour movie is a brain…”
    Do you understand reductio ad absurdum?
    Multi-billion dollar projects notwithstanding, I think the Large Hadron Collider is a bunch of bullshit that will reveal nothing of interest or use for the general public. But, I am not a physicist. Neutrinos are of zero consequence until someone can show me why I should care.”
    But the entire point of Metaphysics is that of having as much no consequence as possible, that to be totally void of any social usefulness, that to be no solution to anything, to be outside of any possible “Intentionality of Use”: people always present technical, cause and effect, logical replies to metaphysical entities, they debate (which is not the goal of metaphysics, since it has no problem to solve, it has no necessity to be right, therefore true and false and right or wrong are meaningless from the outset, nay, be as false as possible, lie as hard as possible, the more its entities do not exist and are pure fantasy the better, etc.) always inserting the meatphysical entity in a predetermined system of logical consequences, logical systems always reflected by our language thought and experience of the world through are design, as a particular Man Brain. So if I tell you that the new brain composed of the set of waves in a given point on the jersey shore in march 13 1978 between 2.04 and 2.07 AM plus (or multiply or any other possible relationship) a chunk of the the nucleus of Jupiter in the year 3,012 AD and another chunk in the year 3,500 BC plus a few pebbles on a mountain in Peru are a new brain that exists (notice, no more connections and coherence between time and space, all points can be used, past, present, far away, close) and has existed and will exist and observed a new universe with a new experience and new laws of physics, you reply inserting that new brain observer in something that is familiar to you, or some system of logic, or some true and false game, or some usefullness or language scheme. But that is the error, it is outside of your range or any range, and that is what makes it more true than anything possible. You are not going to repair your car engine with this stuff, or solve “society’s problems” with this stuff, society’s problems are puny insignifcant crap compared to new universes with new laws of physics.
    As far as time travelling and warps, etc. These are not necessary, it is much much easier, just make believe, pretend, fool your mind into believing that you are time travelling and you have achieved the equvialent mathematically, as time travel is just an experience for our mind, is just and Information Relationship.Just like we are fooling our mind that we are alive, and that our memories are real, etc.
    Check out:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=174981
    TOBOR THE 8 MAN

  797. Eleuthero December 9, 2011 at 6:02 am #

    Eleuthero said:
    “Vacuum fluctuations are virtual particles that arise from NOTHING and whose purpose in nature is to keep a vacuum at an average energy of ZERO. ”
    And Old69 said:
    And why should nature have that purpose ?
    In biology, organisms tend toward a ground state called HOMEOSTASIS. Air rushes from a high pressure system to a low pressure system because nature abhors a vacuum. Similarly, spacetime “likes” to average zero energy so when it does not, virtual particle-antiparticle pairs self-create and self-annihilate. I used the word “purpose” but what I did was DESCRIBE that, in many, many ways, nature tends toward EQUILIBRIA and RELAXED states.
    It’s just the way it is. WHY it is is another question but THAT it is is beyond doubt.
    E.

  798. Doug Hill December 9, 2011 at 6:33 am #

    Wow, Corzine’s testimony yesterday proved how prescient this column was. He hasn’t quite figured out where A BILLION dollars of his customer’s money went? And he’s not sitting in a jail cell? Amazing! The fact that as a politician he was identified as a liberal Democrat demonstrates how little distinction there is between the two major parties.
    Here’s a graph from the New York Times story on his appearance before Congress:
    “In its final days, MF Global tapped its customers’ accounts to meet its own financial obligations, people briefed on the matter have said. The act violated a fundamental Wall Street regulation that firms never commingle customer money with company funds.”
    Translation: MF Global’s executives and employees stole money from their investors to cover their losses.
    Corzine did say he was sorry, though.
    Congratulations to Jim for seeing the significance of this story when the vast majority of media commentators had forgotten it. As he said, when the values our society ostensibly stand for are gutted of any genuine meeting, Katy bar the door.
    Reminds me of a maxim William Burroughs used to quote: Nothing is true, everything is permitted.

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  799. lbendet December 9, 2011 at 8:10 am #

    Doug,
    Re Corzine: You’re post says it best.
    I saw that testimony and looked at my guy and said, “Why don’t we start waterboarding these guys, aren’t they financial terrorists”? Maybe then they’ll remember where the billions went. He agreed.
    Imagine if it were your money that vanished into thin air–or landed in JP Morgan GB? Imagine that everyone of us is in deep trouble and it’s just a matter of time before we are all wiped out.
    Glass-Steagall–nonsense, your money will never be safe afgain. FDIC? C’mon, now, if they had a bank-run you’ll wait till after you die–maybe your great-grandkids will see the money.
    Fact is in the financial Hegemony model of the US these guys are the leadership. Corzine was considered for Geithner’s job by Obama. Ooh, guess he stepped back from that one fast.
    These little masters of the universe are systematically destroying the idea of representational democracy globally, now and are hell-bent to impoverish everyone. Reverse global communism.
    E. and Extra O have it right. All the nation states you still see on the map are in name only.
    All you have to know is that from Alvin Toffler and others were saying way back in the 70’s that corporations would be more powerful than governments and have armies of their own. They will render the modern nation-state to a mere trade colony, which is where we are now.
    WAKE UP!
    People like Clinton are in that camp and our leadership has been going for this for over 30 years. When they say we have no leadership, that isn’t exactly the truth. The truth about what that leadership is gunning for is what we are not told.
    Like the derivatives, like the tax-payer funds going into our privatized security state, like the real amount of the TARP, like the Sovereign Wealth Funds held by foreign entitiies, buying our infrastructure, like money being free speech, but you’re not allowed to know who’s “speaking”, everything is opaque–
    I don’t know what you call it, but in my book, that just isn’t democracy by any stretch of the imagination!
    They like the citizenry to think we are still a country, but the power elite tells us something very different. All you have to know is that they have no interest in paying taxes to a nation-state when they inhabit the globe.

  800. charliefoxtrot December 9, 2011 at 8:54 am #

    that last paragraph says it all…

  801. progress2conserve December 9, 2011 at 9:17 am #

    “not human and only magically become so when the mother decides – well that’s crazy and bad. Next we’ll be putting the old to death.”
    -vlad, on fetal tissue-
    Magic is the word, Vlad. And you’re engaging in it – with the help of far Right Wing, Right-to-Life brainwashing.
    I’m 56. I plan to make it to 100. But, if and when my neural activity drops to that of a 1st trimester human fetus – then I’m overdue for the needle of death. Or the “pillow treatment of death,” that Ripped Thunder and his ambulance riding co-workers make reference to.
    Religion, magic, and politics form a nasty brew.
    Logic and science could have taken the edge off.
    But politics, left and right, blocked reason.
    Until it may be too late.
    ===================
    Anti-soak, I know you’ve got strong feelings about abortion. Jump in here. I’ll follow logic and science to their “logical” ends.

  802. charliefoxtrot December 9, 2011 at 9:20 am #

    i saw a bit on pbs about a climatologist who has been measuring evaporation rates of water for some time- apparently data goes back many years: he noticed that the rates spiked on and around september 12th, 2001…when planes around the globe were grounded…apparently, the particulates (smog) are blocking a significant amount of sunlight; which skews the evaporation numbers- meaning that global warming is potentially much worse than even we “liberal panickers” thought…funny, huh? all the hydrocarbons are killing our planet (sic), while “protecting” us- for now…scary to think what will happen as the oil disappears, right?!

  803. ozone December 9, 2011 at 9:35 am #

    “I’m pretty sure “the laddie” is Vlad, and asoka. was one corner of the triangle in reference. But who’s the other one?
    Me? Mika? Newworld? Bossier? Tegmark? 8M?
    That Oriental Spammer??” -P2C
    Okay,
    laddie,mika,methuselah are all one and the same. (I mean, hell, “they’ve” got to have someone to argue with, even if it’s only happening inside one head.) This isn’t craziness, this is time-wasting. No skin off my nose if you wish to engage, that’s YOUR lookout. As they waste your time, they spout the most “sinful” of all policy: wasting talent. It’s all about waste, okay? You happen to think they’ve got “something to add”. I say, bullshit. [shrug] That’s where it’ll stand.
    teg,8m,old,spider,orspammer,letterandnumbernonsense: all the same “person”. I’m a little surprised you didn’t see that right off. Now, THAT might just be craziness personified (plus an unnatural begging for attention), but that too is a waste of time and space.
    “And, ANYWAY if you want to talk about another topic – hit us with a post, and I’ll follow along if I’m able.” -P2C
    Done and done.
    I try to stay compact. Waaaaay upthread, I made my observations, links, and some stupid japes.
    I think you simply want me to engage on your pet immigration topic. No problem; I think your points are valid, but I don’t think you’ll have a chance to prove/disprove your theories, or implement much of anything in that regard. As you’ve said, it’s all about the timeline, and I think credit is going to evaporate a lot faster than you seem to. That will effect MONEY FLOW and re-introduce the idea of cash (no more pretending). Think of the implications; immigrants will be way down the list of immediate worries. Necessities will be very expensive; effluvia will be very cheap.
    Try this experiment: Go to your bank (the one where you have a large account); ask to withdraw 5-10 grand in CASH. (No bank-checks, no plastic debit card, no promises of tomorrow or a few hours to scrape it together; CASH, NOW.) The reality of the sitch will begin to dawn as you watch ’em hem, haw, and scramble. Worry on that for a bit.
    “May we ask why you’d like to withdraw this money from your account?” {Ummmm, no, you fucking may not.}
    Now I’VE wasted your time and posting space. See? ;o)

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  804. charliefoxtrot December 9, 2011 at 9:42 am #

    according to nature news .com, the govt claims ownership of RAIN: notwithstanding that studies show that only 3% of rainfall actually becomes part of any river; people in the southwest deserts and parts of california are BREAKING THE LAW when they collect rainfall on their own property- the govt says that water belongs to municipal water grids- way to make a profit from a basic function of nature, huh?! and on the subject of they own you: the universities and laboratories who have mapped 20% of the human genome have FILED PATENTS, CLAIMING OWNERSHIP OF 1/5 OF US ALL!!! Really?! (where is seth meyers when you need him?) the phrase ‘whatthefucktheshitthefuckizzat, eh?!’ has been running a continuous loop, lemme tellya! (worked for an old sicilian for a few years…) Clusterfucked Nation, indeed!

  805. progress2conserve December 9, 2011 at 9:46 am #

    “How many Americans over 50 have been forced out of the job market as a result of immigration of all kinds within the last 5 years?” -k-dog-
    Hey, K, finally someone who thinks like a “real?” politician appears on the CFN thread.
    You acknowledge, in your post, that most American-style humans don’t give 3 sh*ts about immigration – or much of anything else – until they think that their own lifestyles and happiness are in jeopardy.
    Which is why platitudes like:
    “We are a nation of immigrants.” or
    “You oppose immigration? That’s RACIST!”
    These and other platitudes have been used by pro-immigrant and big business forces, for many years, to keep the educated white-collar masses quiet on the subject.
    Nice insight, K.
    I’ll look into your question. Although economics and short term outlooks on immigration are not my big thing. It’s the 500,000,000+ population of doom that worries me.
    This article has been mentioned on CFN before, I think. And, in the article, David Kuhn tortures the facts to fit a preconceived bias. BUT, tidbits of truth do come through:
    “Friday’s New York Times exemplified the problem. The nation’s premier newspaper reported on a new immigration study. “In 14 of the 25 largest metropolitan areas,” the story read, “more immigrants are employed in white-collar occupations than in lower-wage work like construction, manufacturing or cleaning.”
    -kuhn-
    So, apparently – it’s the illegals who are thought to be “doing jobs Americans won’t do.”
    Meanwhile, the legals are “doing the WHITE collar jobs Americans won’t do.” HEY, WAIT a minute??
    “Is there a brain running the brain trust?”
    I don’t think so. The idea took root in the ’90’s that growth would foster growth in a never ending upward spiral. Thus, more immigrants could only lead to more growth, for ever and ever, Amen.
    The 2010’s are proving infinite upward growth was a fallacy of infinite upward Bull Shit.
    Which brings us to the reality that draws most of us to JHK’s writing, every week.
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/04/18/the_real_story_of_americans_immigration_views__105217.html

  806. ozone December 9, 2011 at 9:59 am #

    according to nature news .com, the govt claims ownership of RAIN -CFT
    All I can say is, Wow.
    whatthefucktheshitthefuckizzat, eh!?
    I like it! I must internalize that expression immediately (if not sooner). First, we write it down, verbatim. :o)

  807. charliefoxtrot December 9, 2011 at 10:03 am #

    i am baffled by men who believe they have a right to any more than an opinion on the subject…i figure if it is your child concerned, ok, you have a right to care, but that s all…bottom line is that we don t have the lifeform growing inside our bodies- why do we get to dick-tate (sorry, Q) what she does with it? ever heard the old saw that if men had to give birth, we wouldn t be here? now while i personally don t agree with the practice of using abortion as birth control, IT IS NOT MY WOMB…PERIOD i was a scheduling conflict away from being an abortion myself, and i am still able to see that the choice ultimately belongs to that woman who has to deal with the situation…whether the law agrees or not- which it does how can people not see this, i don t know…

  808. ozone December 9, 2011 at 10:04 am #

    Say, Charlie,
    Gonna patent that expression, or what?
    (Oh dearie me, some contracts are just not going to be honored, I’m afear’d. ;o)

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  809. ozone December 9, 2011 at 10:21 am #

    Oopsie,
    I smell shenanigans in da markits. Wait, naaaaaah, it’s all on the up-and-up.
    JHK, over to you…
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29921.htm

  810. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 10:40 am #

    I would consider the wars against the natives agressive wars. They massacred them and took their land, didn’t they?

  811. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 10:45 am #

    Asoka, don’t go!
    You consistently remain good-natured and positive, you bring facts to heated debates, and you know stuff about a lot of things.
    Sure, I’m not at all interested in buddhism or physics, and you used to annoy me with your defense of theat constitution-shredding war mongerer, but on the whole, you are a distinct asset to this blog.
    Please come back.

  812. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 10:51 am #

    OK, I know I just said that I’m not interested in Buddhism, but this essay from the 60s is an exception. I’ve linked to it before, but I think you should read it to answer your question.
    http://www.tombender.org/factor10econarticles/buddhist_economics.pdf

  813. Rhino December 9, 2011 at 10:55 am #

    Great comment Jackie.
    “I don’t really understand about Money.” – Jackie
    Neither does anybody else especially people heading up central banks. If they did understand about money as you say we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in.
    For example, some people, a while back said that creating this Euro currency was crazy. And the reasons were obvious ie numerous countries with widely disparate languages, cultures, societies, politics and economies sharing a currency? Nuts!
    But the men with tall foreheads and who have high falutin degrees and that think they know everything who were behind this disaster shouted the doubters down. So there’s nobody so fullashit as an “expert”.
    I know folks that think money is everything. But they tend to be people that hoard it. And no matter what hoarders never have enough. And they treat people around them like crap.
    If you don’t have much money it can be hell. Hunger or being out of doors is nasty. Thing is though, people with money seem to be no happier than people without. Especially wealthy families. Typically headed up by a POS father that abuses everyone around him and a nasty, money grubbing wife. And they have pathetic, unhappy, screwed up kids that have bags of money and all the stuff money can buy but get no attention from their “parents”.

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  814. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 10:55 am #

    The following sentence shows how far we’ve sunk since the 60s –
    “There is universal agreement that the fundamental source of wealth is
    human labour.”
    What was obvious to thinkers of the past (including Ricardo and Adam Smith) is now disputed by right wing think tanks and the corporate media that regurgitates their spewings. We are now told that the 1% are wealth creators, and workers are leeches upon them.
    No wonder we face extinction.

  815. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 10:58 am #

    Great post, lbendet.
    You really nailed it.

  816. Widespreadpanic7 December 9, 2011 at 11:10 am #

    In a few weeks American troops will be out of Iraq.
    Any of you CFNers have any ideas what might happen in the near future in that country? Stable democracy? Internecine War? Domination by Iran?
    And please, to the commies, leftists and multiculturalists who post here (you know who you are) no knee-jerk anti-American bullshit! This is just a simple question.
    —WSP7

  817. dale December 9, 2011 at 11:23 am #

    While the materialist is mainly interested in goods, the Buddhist is mainly
    interested in liberation. But Buddhism is ‘The Middle Way’ and therefore in no
    way antagonistic to physical well-being. It is not wealth that stands in the way of
    liberation but the attachment to wealth—not the enjoyment of pleasurable things
    but the craving for them. The keynote of Buddhist economics, therefore, is
    simplicity and non-violence. From an economist’s point of view, the marvel of
    the Buddhist way of life is the utter rationality of its pattern— amazingly small
    means leading to extraordinarily satisfactory results.
    —————————
    Precisely, One Buddhist teacher I met referred to Buddhism as “enlightened hedonism”, with respect to daily exisitance. Enjoy fully, the suffering comes not with that, but the attachment to sensations which are transitory in nature.
    Simplicity flows naturally from having a realistic view of life.

  818. Rhino December 9, 2011 at 11:23 am #

    There’s a lot of accomplices and enablers to the clowns and villains that “vanquished meaning”.
    Just watch Sunday morning news shows and listen to the talking heads. Not just the usual shysters in Congress but “pundits” on one side of the ideological spectrum or the other. One of them insisted that an 8.6% unemployment rate was “good news”. This was just after it was announced that the rate went down because a whole bunch of unemployed people (more than 300,000) stopped looking for work.
    So just wave the rhetorical wand and shout loudly enough and try not to smirk cynically while you’re doing it and something that is “bad news”, at least to anyone that has to earn an honest living and has a stitch of sense, suddenly becomes “good news”.

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  819. Widespreadpanic7 December 9, 2011 at 11:25 am #

    Hey Ibendet everybody is worried about the 1 or 2 billion $$$ missing from Corzine’s company MF Global. But what about the $45 billion ‘lost’. Where did it go? Where did it come from to begin with? How did this company come up with that much $$$ in the first place? NY Post had a story showing employees clearing out their offices? But I haven’t seen any other stories of deleterious effects of this company going under i.e. closed factories, people being thrown out of their houses, empty grocery stores etc., except Gerald Celente losing his gold investments.
    –WSP7

  820. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 11:27 am #

    Phil Rockstroh rocks!
    Max Keiser also talked about this.
    So one guy, in a room full of financial managers, has a residual of decency, and recognizes illegality when he hears it, a fact confirmed by his lawyer.
    What happens to the rest? They profit from insider trading.
    At least he didn’t get targeted by the government, like Qwest did, when they refused to go along with ILLEGAL wiretapping, (retroactively made legal by Congress).
    See, the outrages continue to pile up, and each one that we notice makes us realize, again, that our country is gone. And then we forget until slapped in the face with yet another outrage.

  821. ozone December 9, 2011 at 11:29 am #

    Interesting question.
    The very first thing? Breaking, suspending, ignoring of any contracts [made under duress] that cannot be directly/successfully enforced at the point of a gun.
    Next? Not a clue. The “installed” will [predictably] try to maintain control and power. (So, what else is new?)

  822. lbendet December 9, 2011 at 11:30 am #

    Thanks, Wage.
    Rhino do you really think this is an accident and that people don’t know what they’re doing?
    I disagree. It’s a system with an agenda and nothing’s gonna stop it.
    Your talking heads are not the fourth estate. They are corporatist shills trying to convince you that all is good.

  823. dale December 9, 2011 at 11:35 am #

    Vlad,
    I’m sure I never wished you dead, in fact I think I have repeated wished you to be well. “Well”, would from my POV, require you relinquish many of your most cherished views, so that might seem like death to you. But I know, even if you do not, that you are not those ridiculous, fearful thoughts.
    As for Moore, I agree with much of what he says, but even I’m sick of seeing him in the media. I can just imagine what you think if you disagree with him. I have never quoted him here.
    As for the ‘sick bastard” comment….not to worry. Understand: it’s very liberating, to realize that you are not only not your own thoughts, you are most certainly not anyone else’s either.

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  824. k-dog December 9, 2011 at 11:36 am #

    And please, to the commies, leftists and multiculturalists who post here (you know who you are) no knee-jerk anti-American bullshit!
    As a multicultural leftist I think the place is going to go to hell in a hand basket no matter we end the occupation or stay.
    But, what’s your point other than breaking up a good thread on alternative economic theories that doesn’t match your point of view.
    Your asking your simple question why? To contribute or detract?
    Inquiring minds want to know.

  825. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 11:37 am #

    OK, I got mixed up. This was the Phil Rockstroh link.
    Yesterday, I went to march around the Federal Building. Some woman came out and started yelling about the 1% and Ron Paul, so I went over to talk to her.
    She was all over the place! Just like Phil says, she was totally brainwashed, yet somewhere, deep down, she knew who her real enemies are. It was just so covered up by welfare cheats and immigrants! It was quite amazing to talk to her, bring her around to acknowledging the corporate control of our society, and then watch her slip into screaming about free lunches for school children.
    She was a programmed robot of hate, as he says. (But much more eloquently).

  826. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 11:42 am #

    That’s one of the reasons I suggested that WW3 might be in their plans.
    Nuclear winter cancels out global warming.

  827. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 11:46 am #

    I think it went-
    If men had to give birth, abortion would be a sacrament.

  828. Rhino December 9, 2011 at 11:50 am #

    Hi L
    It wasn’t an accident and yes they don’t know what they’re doing.
    IMO central bankers are there to help the speculative class steal our money. Having said that, creating the Euro was a act of monumental idiocy. The stated rationale (for the starry eyed dreamers and the easily deceived in our midst) was to bind Europe more tightly together to avoid a repeat of the monstrosities of the 20th century.
    Did you believe the party line? I sure as hell didn’t. From the beginning it was all about banking and corporate profits, skimming our savings in the best case and outright theft in the worst case. Nothing more. And it was a boneheaded idea.

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  829. dale December 9, 2011 at 11:51 am #

    While I agree personally with most of the article, I think the author goes a little far in attubuting much of it to “Buddhist Economics”.
    Favoring items made locally over imports?……I’m not sure in Buddhist terms that would be really significant, other than as a consequence of simplicity, which itself should not be seen as some hard and fast law. It might be seen as more “buddhist” to help others in need from afar…for example.
    Perhaps the main difference, is precisely this western tendency to insist on values being translated into hard and fast rules, not really “Buddhist” at heart, IMO. I say IMO, because I know many Buddhist who seem to LOVE denial, aceticism and living by hard and fast rules.
    Some people insist on structure in their lives, others find it appallingly formal and constraining…….Buddhism has room for both views.

  830. k-dog December 9, 2011 at 11:52 am #

    Thanks, that is a great piece. As I read it I was under the impression that it was written recently but afterwards when I went back to your post with the link I find it was written in the 60’s.
    Genuine insight is a timeless delight.
    I enjoyed it thoroughly, the Buddhist point of view of economics is 100% k-dog. Or should I say I have a Buddhist point of view? Best I not get overly attached to finding an answer to that question, I’ve plenty of others to answer.

  831. Eleuthero December 9, 2011 at 11:54 am #

    LB said:
    All you have to know is that they have no interest in paying taxes to a nation-state when they inhabit the globe.
    *****************************************************************
    Corporate taxes as a percentage of total Federal revenues are around ONE-AND-A-HALF PERCENT. That’s one of those numbers which, for some odd reason (hint, hint … corporate-sponsored media) never gets bandied about on a daily basis. What you DO hear is the Republikook battle cry that “corporations won’t create jobs if we tax them” so they want those taxes to be EVEN LOWER!!! Even many Democrats seem to go along with this goofy idea.
    Incredible! Incredible in many ways, for example, WHAT FREAKING “JOBS” are they talking about?! Do they mean the McDonald’s jobs that account for much of the job creation in the USA in 2011? Do they mean the webmasters who work at small tech companies for $12/hour? Do they mean the jobs as baristas at Peet’s Coffee because a kid with a mechanical engineering degree from Dartmouth had ALL his would-be jobs outsourced to Absurdistan a decade ago?
    Corporations in the USA are doing LESS for America with the MOST cash on their balance sheets than at any time in the history of the country. They have a million tax dodges and Newt Gingrich, a consummate MASTER of tax dodging, is the fox that is running to be in charge of the chicken coop. He’s a lobbyist who claims he isn’t a lobbyist because PAC money gets “sanitized” through the Newt Gingrich Foundation, a tax-exempt foundation.
    Here’s more about smiling Newt from Wikipedia:
    “Eighty-four ethics charges were filed against Speaker Gingrich during his term, including claiming tax-exempt status for a college course run for political purposes. Following an investigation by the House Ethics Committee Gingrich was sanctioned US$300,000 on a 395-28 House vote.[66] Gingrich acknowledged in January 1997 that “In my name and over my signature, inaccurate, incomplete and unreliable statements were given to the committee”. [67] The House Ethics Committee concluded that inaccurate information supplied to investigators represented “intentional or … reckless” disregard of House rules.[68]”
    This guy is like a clone of Karl Rove only Karl Rove was just a PR flak whose only “power” resided in his influence. Gingrich is one of the cruelest, most duplicitous, most hypocritical men EVER to run for office in the USA. In the dirtiest of scum tanks, Capitol Hill, he’s the scummiest bottom-feeder of the lot. That this guy is now ranked NUMBER ONE in the new Republican Polls is a scary indictment of the fools who belong to that party.
    E.

  832. k-dog December 9, 2011 at 12:06 pm #

    Favoring items made locally over imports?……I’m not sure in Buddhist terms that would be really significant, other than as a consequence of simplicity, which itself should not be seen as some hard and fast law. It might be seen as more “buddhist” to help others in need from afar…for example.
    I had the same thought but I think we are splitting hairs.
    A true Buddhist would help others in need no matter where they are. Because of this the value a item is not subject to place of origin but on if the good was produced in a way which honors or dishonor life.
    Considering how many petro-calories it takes to move a salad 1000 miles is an issue that certainly matters but I’m ignoring for now because compassion can’t be a geographic issue to a Buddhist.

  833. k-dog December 9, 2011 at 12:14 pm #

    Sorry about the grammar in my last post. I wish we could edit our own entries after we see what they look like.

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  834. DeeJones December 9, 2011 at 12:22 pm #

    “In a few weeks American troops will be out of Iraq.
    Any of you CFNers have any ideas what might happen in the near future in that country? Stable democracy? Internecine War? Domination by Iran?” wsp7
    I seriously doubt that “all” american troops will be ‘out’ of Iraq. They are just going to rotate in ‘new’ troops. Yes, all the ‘old’ troops will be home and snuggling with their famblys for xmass, but there will be a whole bunch of newbys ‘over there’. Do you really think that the US is just going to hand over all those huge bases we built in Iraq so the Iranians can get hold of them someday? (IRAN: All your base are belong to us!!)
    Why, well, I think you answered that in your second paragraph. Oh, plus we gotta get ready to take out Iran. Can’t do that w/out troops in Iraq.
    Waiting to see how the Iranians taking down that drone affect the war plans. Could push them up, could put them off.
    Think about it, that drone capture was like if the N. Vietnamese brought down an intact SR71 in the ’70’s and turned it over to the USSR to reverse engineer.
    And if it happened the way they claim, that is they hacked the C&C and hijacked it, that is a very serious threat to the whole drone C&C structure, not to mention the C&C encryption’s used being compromised. You can bet there is a wholesale forced upgrade in software going on right now that wasn’t even planned for.(i wonder if they were even ready for such?)
    I wonder if Russian & Chinese techs are already over there taking it apart? Now that’s gotta have the M.I.C. shitting their pants.
    :]

  835. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

    So when the archdruid and Herman Daly call for a sustainable and steady state society, they are wise and farseeing, but when I do, I’m an adolescent thinker.
    Ha!

  836. Rhino December 9, 2011 at 12:38 pm #

    I see the little flicker of a smirk just before a Republigarch like Cantor says something like “we can’t tax job creators”. Especially with Cantor it looks like it’s a Herculean effort to keep a straight face. When I see it, I can’t help it, it makes ME laugh.

  837. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    Last Saturday one of my co-worker’s husband came in to eat dinner with her. He had a Blackwater t-shirt on. At first I thought, oh no, that can’t be the one I’m thinking of. But then I saw the bearprint, and I knew it was.
    So I asked her why he was wearing the shirt of a mercencary murdering corporation that is sucking up tax money to go kill people.
    And she said that 3 (!) of their friends were currently working in Iraq for Blackwater. That, plus my other co-worker’s brother, makes 4(!) mercenaries that I know of, just from this small, sparsely populated area, that are in Iraq.
    As for the drone, don’t let your thinking be framed by the corporate media.
    The question is not, can anyone reverse engineer the US drone?
    The question is, what the HELL is the US doing flying drones over Iran?
    And assassinating its scientists? And sponsoring terrorist attacks in its borders?
    And interfering in its elections? http://wagelaborer.blogspot.com/2010/05/spy-vs-not-spy.html

  838. ozone December 9, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

    lol
    That IS pretty funny!
    Who said that to you, BTW?

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  839. ozone December 9, 2011 at 12:43 pm #

    (Oops, gotta go agin. See youses later on…)

  840. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 12:43 pm #

    AND, she said that her husband works for another company and is going to go to Iraq. (She wouldn’t tell me the name of the company).

  841. k-dog December 9, 2011 at 12:44 pm #

    Actually it might be much ado about nothing.
    Mandarin and Russian accents are ubiquitous in American engineering labs. Russian & Chinese techs probably built the damn thing in the first place. Most of the Integrated Circuits in the avionics were probably made in Asia. For the most part we don’t make I.C.s here anymore. There had to be Chinese parts in the death bird.

  842. k-dog December 9, 2011 at 12:50 pm #

    No, your an anti American leftist commie pinko anarchist adolescent thinker, like me.

  843. Widespreadpanic7 December 9, 2011 at 12:52 pm #

    Pretty good post, DeeJones. That’s what I was looking for.
    I did hear a DoD spokesman on one of the news channels last night stating that the captured drone cannot be reverse engineered.
    Also, the aircraft that Gary Powers was shot down in, was it an SR-21?
    –WSP7

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  844. charliefoxtrot December 9, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    you might also like: “what the fuck, over”…and in the spirit of the (hopefully temporarily) departed: i have no plans to copyright or trademark either expression; i would hope more and more people start asking the questions!

  845. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 1:08 pm #

    You got me pegged, K-dog! Peace.

  846. charliefoxtrot December 9, 2011 at 1:12 pm #

    Oh Shit!! that means that they can, and probably are well on their way to doing so, if you (don t) believe anything they tell us…at least going by their historical record…

  847. lbendet December 9, 2011 at 1:18 pm #

    In the fall of 2010 I wrote on this blog about the Repugnacan’ts:
    Welcome to the theater of cruelty.
    I was describing how DeMintt was saying that Europe was godless and socialist democracy was godless; thus anything the tax-payer’s money does for them is godless.
    Newt embodies it all. Along with child labor and the dismantling of that socialist education system that teaches evolution… oh yeah, we’re going to compete in the world arena, alright and be innovators too.
    I think there is a real cognitive dissonance, but when the people of this country feel the pain, watch their homes go down in flames while firefighters watch, cuz they didn’t pay for a subscription, I think they will finally get it. Most likely he will be the last Republican president.

  848. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    One of my Facebook friends just spent 30 hours in jail for rolling through a stopsign. (And for having pro-Occupy bumper stickers on her car).
    Apparently, in Texas, you can go to jail for any traffic violation EXCEPT speeding and having an open container of alcohol in your car.
    So someone posted this account of another occupy protester’s encounter with the heroes.
    http://myoccupylaarrest.blogspot.com/
    (Note that in an update, he feels compelled to downplay his treatment and laud the police, due to nasty comments he’d received. From the population of the Land of the Free).

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  849. charliefoxtrot December 9, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    might i point out, as a survivor of a commune, that it really only works in the vacuum of theory…? see, the thing is that humans are humans even in a closed system, and eventually self-interest rears its ugly head: some want to either lay around fuckin’ and doing drugs, or worry about who else is…we tend to stratify as a species regardless of ideology, with ‘have-not’s, ‘have’s, and ‘have-more’s; not in my opinion a sustainable system on a large scale (as in bigger than a house-hold, and sometimes not even then)…especially when there is not really somewhere else to go in an attempt to equalize the effect- no opportunities for advancement, say in another village…so, i think, globalization was doomed to get us all, whether we d used up the resources or not… jmg s post, i think, speaks to that…

  850. k-dog December 9, 2011 at 1:33 pm #

    It’s sad to find nothing was learned from the Bolivian experience.
    People have died over ownership of rainwater.
    Privatization of rain was a huge issue in the The Water War in Bolivia. Put that in you search engine, hit enter and see what pops up. You can also try searching “Oscar Olivera on Bechtel’s Privatization of Rainwater”.
    It’s quite a story and not a story to be saved for a rainy day. It shows what people can do when they rise like lions after slumber
    in unvanquishable numbers and shake their chains to earth.

  851. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

    Interesting that those most vehemently opposed to a more just economic system are willfully uncaring about the personal property of the Occupy people.
    Just upthread, someone posted about the “trash” that the police discarded from an Occupy site.
    Trash? People’s tents, books, medical supplies, sleeping bags, food?
    Note that the guy in the blog had spent a couple of hundred dollars to donate a tent, which the police slashed and trashed.
    Yet hateful Americans applaud this destruction, as they applaud the destruction of their own commonwealth, their water, their topsoil, their oceans and their atmosphere.
    Because they cravenly ally themselves with the 1%, apparently believing, against all evidence, that they will be allowed, like camp dogs, access to the scraps of the rich.

  852. DeeJones December 9, 2011 at 1:38 pm #

    “As for the drone, don’t let your thinking be framed by the corporate media.
    The question is not, can anyone reverse engineer the US drone?”
    Actually, the real question is: Can they now DETECT the stealthy drones, and can they actually hijack them? This is supposed to be the MOST STEALTHY platform in existence.
    Think about it: In the case of a US attack on the Iranian nuke facilities, the platform of choice will be the Stealth B2 bomber carrying ‘bunker-buster’ bombs, protected by the Stealth F117 fighter.
    In the current after math of the Iranian claims, you can bet that as of now, there are NO drones over Iran, which means they can move & hide whatever they want.
    It also means that the US is seriously analyzing if the Iranians can DETECT the US stealth tech.
    If they can, they have in a stroke negated any advantage Stealth tech has in an attack on them, they can now DETECT and shoot down F117’s (not a supersonic plane anyway), and the super-expensive, and limited edition B2 bomber.
    So, thus the question of if there will be an attack on Iranian nuke facilites.
    Oh, and WSP, the plane the USSR shot down was the U2, a very hi altitude (100,000′) but subsonic craft that was thought to be out of reach by Soviet AA missiles. Opps…
    It was replaced by the SR71, also hi altitude, but also capable of flying “around 2000mph”.
    Only in the ’90s did the Soviets develop missiles capable of reaching it.
    :]

  853. Buck Stud December 9, 2011 at 1:40 pm #

    Anti,
    I haven’t read that book and I’m not really sure what to make of your ‘laughing gas’ comment. As I mentioned, I think Osho was a brilliant philosopher/communicator, but I always questioned the idea that human failings are diminished or eliminated via cathartic therapy,i.e.,to get beyond something you have to go through it. For example, does beating the snot out of a therapy partner with a pillow really marginalize the inclination for violence at a later date, or in a completely different setting? Or does watching your girlfriend, spouse/lover engage in sex with other partners really melt away the emotion of jealousy and anger? I have my doubts. More likely it results in repression and a concession to a group belief system in the spirit of getting along. And it also makes for a spectacular front row seat for those manipulating and watching the “therapy’ unfold before their very eyes.
    The only saving grace for this type of contrived, poisonous, toxic rationalizations for instilling the therapeutic spirit of “letting go” is that somebody might just learn to sink the mind into tan-tien and just watch it all pass on by.

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  854. charliefoxtrot December 9, 2011 at 1:40 pm #

    #!$%…don t get me wrong, i m not a rabid capitalist, rather, more like a “communityist”, sort of a combination of the two extremes…and i must admit that many of those i know (having kept in contact over the years) at least had their hearts in the right place, it s just too hard to avoid settling into cliques, you know? and i am thankful for the perspective on the poorest among us that you have to be poor yourself to really understand…and i ve met a few ‘monet-grubber’s since, and i m REALLY glad my folks didn t go that route…peace, bro & sis

  855. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 1:41 pm #

    Yes, as I just pointed out, there is a difference between personal private property and means of production private property.
    It’s not just humans who bicker and fight over space and food. The other animals do also.
    Obviously, we need our space, and there must be enough to go around.
    And those who don’t want to work as much should be able to kick back and survive on minimal effort. Two hours of pushing broom should equal an 8×10 four-bit room, as Roger Miller pointed out. People who are more ambitious should be rewarded with more, in a sustainable way, of course.
    But this system, with its mining of the planet for the profit of a very few? It’s got to go.

  856. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 1:43 pm #

    Abortion already is a sacrament to Feminists – look how your Grandmother had 14 of them just as an expression of Woman Power. Unless that was some kind of sick joke on your part.
    Absolutely fucking amazing how people project your evil on to Men.

  857. k-dog December 9, 2011 at 1:47 pm #

    “Because they cravenly ally themselves with the 1%, apparently believing, against all evidence, that they will be allowed, like camp dogs, access to the scraps of the rich.”
    And their best allies are those with the least.

  858. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 1:54 pm #

    I agree with Dee: wihout us the whole place devolves into Civil War with the Shiites taking it all. So why on Earth did we ever get involved?
    Obviously it’s part of bigger plan to take over the Middle East for the Zionists and their Oil Company buddies. And everything done heretofore is meaningless without taking down Iran. Pakistan is a serious irritant and Afghanistan will never be conquered. But Iran is where the oil is and is the one most capable of exporting terror and death. We’ve got to conquer them and start setting up abortion clinics and fake versions of Islam – similar to the fake forms of Christianity than now exist in America. Real Christianity is at odds with our Civilization.
    You love Israel – but they hate Pat Buchana whom you also love. Try to understand why. You can’t have it both ways. You do have to choose.

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  859. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 1:56 pm #

    Yeah, you’re still missing my point.
    I actually do NOT want the US to be able to attack other people at will, and without other people being able to fight back, or even defend themselves, for that matter.
    That goes against basic human decency. It’s appalling.
    And Gary Powers’ plane was sabotaged by the Pentagon, leading to the cancellment of peace talks between the US and the USSR.
    Peace is not profitable.

  860. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 2:02 pm #

    No. A person’s first responsibility is to one’s family, community, city, province, Nation. Think concentric circles. All Traditions teach this. Putting those “afar” first is blatant corruption.
    But a good way to salve guilty consciences that are abusing those who are near, no? Bono is a Saint in this new tradition. U2?

  861. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 2:05 pm #

    Impressive knowledge Dee. Did you work in the Defence Industry? Or are they down in Costa Rica too? It’s hard to leave America nowadays…

  862. Buck Stud December 9, 2011 at 2:05 pm #

    Every day really is a new day, but so many people I talk to suspect the economy of 1996 is lurking right around a difficult but temporary corner. It’s not coming back; it’s going to get much more sparse and austere. And TPTB are not really trying to go back to societal largesse anyway. The illusion of going back to more lucrative times is just their way diverting attention while they extract the last remaining wealth from the lower classes. The Stop Online Piracy Act is one example among many. The very people who extolled globalism in the name of affordability and competition are now seeking to stick the internet genie back in the bottle because, well, globalism and competition carries a double-edged sword after all.
    Cheap labor and unfettered markets for TPTB; regulation, censorship and high-prices for Main Street. Don’t ever forget that, chumps.

  863. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 2:08 pm #

    Yeah the other group came out with their big blue Autobiography of a Yogi. But I bet the Mansion is still in there.

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  864. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 2:11 pm #

    Bet you think Fathers have no rights either – except the “right” to pay, and pay and pay and

  865. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 2:13 pm #

    And it’s not as if we are rewarded appropriately now.
    Not just that farmworkers work much harder than CEOs, yet are paid so much less.
    Even where I work, there are differences in effort between people who do the same job.
    I work with nurses who are lazy. They actually brag about getting away with taking fewer patients. I would be embarrassed to brag about being lazy. But they get paid the same.
    The rest of us resent them, but we’re not about to make patients suffer by slowing down our efforts. We keep working hard.
    Some people will, some people won’t.

  866. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    So then you applaud traitors who have sold or given our secrets to other Nations – small peaceful ones like the Soviet Union or the Peoples Republic of China.

  867. charliefoxtrot December 9, 2011 at 2:19 pm #

    the problem is that lazy people want to get by on the work that WE do: look at the ceo of any corporation- what does he actually DO? can t call it work by any stretch of the definition…! i believe We The People need to call a general and sustained strike, both in the ‘work’ AND ‘buy’ sectors of the economy…as well as repudiate all odious debt- from “our” govt deficit to unlawful mortgages- meaning ANY mortgage which has been “repackaged” and sold in any form, and for any reason…that oughta get their attention!

  868. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 2:19 pm #

    Labour? Even Donkeys labour. It means nothing without a directing intelligence. America would have been different without Black Slavery but still great. But without White Intelligence and Diligence it would never have been. Certainly Blacks could not have created it – nor will they maintain it after we are gone.

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  869. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 2:22 pm #

    Black Nurses are notoriously bad. Dale fantasized about me on my death bed with no one to comfort me but a Black Nurse. He doesn’t remember anymore though.

  870. charliefoxtrot December 9, 2011 at 2:26 pm #

    question for any self-described “christian”s: how come nobody has condemned any of our financial institutions for charging interest? isn t that usury, and wasn t jesus reportedly (violently) against it? or is it another case of cherry-picking your belief system…? no offense meant; i am genuinely curious…

  871. charliefoxtrot December 9, 2011 at 2:33 pm #

    laughing gas (NO3)=hippy crack not sure how prevalent the practice is, these days, but for a while there…

  872. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

    She didn’t do it as an Expression of Woman Power, you dipshit.
    She did it because she didn’t want all those kids!

  873. charliefoxtrot December 9, 2011 at 2:38 pm #

    doesn t destruction of a hospital tent qualify as a war crime under the geneva convention or something?

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  874. wagelaborer December 9, 2011 at 2:47 pm #

    Interesting point, cft.
    I guess if the US can openly bomb a hospital in Fallujuah, claiming that it was “self defense” against the propaganda value of video of dead and wounded civilians getting out, then slashing a hospital tent back at home on Battlefield Earth is OK.

  875. turkle December 9, 2011 at 2:48 pm #

    Hm, I guess this site is now the official Vlad Kraps blog.

  876. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 2:51 pm #

    That’s Communism that you’re describing – evereyone paid the same. You should be happy.

  877. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 2:53 pm #

    Oh fuck me. She made “a mistake” 14 times? Something else was going on dipshit.

  878. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 2:56 pm #

    Guess I have alot to say. You don’t since what you believe is just the status quo or New York Times view of life.

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  879. charliefoxtrot December 9, 2011 at 2:57 pm #

    got news for you, dipshit- thanks, wage- white people didn t create america, they killed almost all of the indigenous tribes who already lived here, and that s just what they finally named it…and i see you re still on about blacks…notice they were brought here in chains, and against their will, in order to sustain the 1% of that time? the north too; who do you think was buying the produce for their factories? it wasn t ALL going to europe…you really should have your dna checked; if you found out you are human, maybe you would be able to accept the rest of us, instead of the naked fear you seem to have for everyone…notwithstanding, give it a rest!

  880. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 2:59 pm #

    The Black Shakes? Is that a new group.
    Why not just stay on the toilet all day? When asked about the big events of a day, Hindus will report having a good movement.
    What do you think of Bigfoot? Wonder if they have racial tension – the Yetis vs the Skunk Apes of the Southeast.

  881. Mike Litoris December 9, 2011 at 3:01 pm #

    “..why is Jon Corzine still at large?”
    For the exact same reasons that GW Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Collin Powell, Nancy Pelosi, Ben Bernanke, Tim Geithner, Robert McNamara, Henry Kissinger, Bill Clinton, George HW Bush, Madeline Albright, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Lloyd Blankfein, Richard S Fuld and ANOTHER approximately 15,389 American murderers, thieves & filthy scumbags are still at large: THE U.S. HAS NO LONGER HAS ANY ACCOUNTABILITY NOR RULE OF LAW!
    What’s your NEXT stupid question, pray tell?

  882. charliefoxtrot December 9, 2011 at 3:03 pm #

    how about me, huh? tell me, tell me, what do i believe? huh, huh? asshole…

  883. turkle December 9, 2011 at 3:03 pm #

    “THE U.S. HAS NO LONGER HAS ANY ACCOUNTABILITY NOR RULE OF LAW!”
    Go try robbing a bank and then get back to me on that one…

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  884. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 3:06 pm #

    Can’t believe how programmed you are. But I was too at your age. A Nation isn’t a locale, it’s a People. Indians were not the first Americans. They stood in the way and we conquered them. That’s how the Founding Fathers saw it. Nice? No, but life generally isn’t. If you disagree with it, you shouldn’t live here since you are reaping the benefits of the Conquest. Take existential responsibility or shut up and accept it.
    We could have wiped them out, but we refrained. Bringing the Blacks here was worse in my opinion since it wasn’t necessary. Many of the Founders knew it was wrong and predicted dire consequences for the future. A terrible way to being they said. Truer words were never spoken. They were supposed to be sent back to Africa once freed, but commercial interests were already too strong.

  885. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 3:08 pm #

    What are you babbling about now you little fool? Will you calm down – you can’t think while stuck in the chimp part of the brain.

  886. turkle December 9, 2011 at 3:10 pm #

    Your shtick about liberals is stale, Vladdie. I don’t read the NYT, at least not regularly, though I do catch a few columns here and there that match my views, but I certainly don’t pledge allegiance to them or their views in any way. Ever thought that maybe those who question you on the internet aren’t necessarily card-carrying liberals? They might just think you’re a vicious kook.
    And you have too much to say, week after week. Same old boring, irrelevant race baiting and new barbarian, crypto-fascist nonsense about how everyone should be just like Vlad. In your case, silence would be golden.

  887. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 3:12 pm #

    Just heard the Occupiers shut down a TV crime show being made about the Occupiers. Got to hand it to them on this one – people can’t tell where TV ends and reality begins. I’d love to see more of this kind of life imitating art imitaing life protest.

  888. charliefoxtrot December 9, 2011 at 3:14 pm #

    ‘…why is jon corzine still at large…?’ yo love button, it s what is known as a rhetorical question ‘what s your next stupid question, pray tell?’ now THAT is a stupid question…just so you know…this has been another public service announcement by proxy, in the name of all that is Q

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  889. k-dog December 9, 2011 at 3:15 pm #

    If that Asoka character drops in somebody tell him I could not wait for him anymore and sent an email to the radio station myself. Action being more presidential than waiting for his lame ass. Well see what happens. K-dog for supreme leader is still on.
    In the meantime I’m going down to my fitness center and do twenty miles on a fancy-assed exercise bike. It’s now my responsibility to everyone to stay fit.
    I’ll be near the south end of the lake should anyone want to assassinate me.
    First I’ll need to stop at the cash machine. I hope it still works.

  890. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 3:18 pm #

    Not true – I help bring in the numbers here and keep up the advertising rate. White Nationalists have been ideologicaly cleansed from the Lame Steam Media and the internet is our Lake. Don’t like it? Get offline or go to a Totalitarian Liberal site that only allows the Party Line. Maybe a Feminist site, you and Chuckles? They’re all like that. Maybe if you’re submissive enought, you’ll get “lucky” and get to pay for one of the “ladies” on a date: dinner, movie, drinks – can you afford it?

  891. Bustin J December 9, 2011 at 3:22 pm #

    Wage, by the time the leading edges of white civilization encountered indigenous tribal societies, they had been much diminished. Most of the devastation of tribes after 1850 was persecuted in a more or less statist fashion, for instance, the military effort to capture Sitting Bull. And that was influenced by the expansionist political economy. There was a distinct point in time when America achieved the sophistication to project power and that was around the time we started taking the Phillipines, for example. We entered the league of Empire which was already filled with Russia, France, England, etc.
    It easy to forget that indigenous populations were decimated by the advance of virulence from the British, French and Spanish empires.
    Oldsmobile said “You are not going to repair your car engine with this stuff, or solve “society’s problems” with this stuff, society’s problems are puny insignifcant crap compared to new universes with new laws of physics.”
    Well, I think that is just bullshit. How about that? The assertion that all novel configurations of neuronal networks (brains) result in novel universes and laws of physics is just an extreme equivocation. Just because we have a theory of reality which implies that multiple universes exist, doesn’t mean the universe must fit this theory.
    It doesn’t contradict the apparent nature of a concrete, physical universe with universal laws and and existence independent of the observer. If the theory puts the cart before the horse and says the observer is the independent variable, I’d say it is horseshit.
    As for Metaphysics, regardless of what you think the purpose and function of it, in my concrete universe, it exists independently of your opinion of it. Therefore my incredulity at your repeated attempts to convince anyone you have any kind of command over it just because you tend to believe certain premises. There is no difference between such raving and what one hears on the bus from any number of mentally ill people. At best, we can color and slant our perceptions of the world, but it doesn’t change the fundamental laws and properties governing matter and energy. Metaphysics is subject to logical analysis, and your logic is flawed. Scientific theory and experience does not validate your views. Your theories of reality through metaphysics qualifies as “subtle twattle”.
    Its encouraging that you admit that the theory is useless in practical terms. It is so. Imagination is the realm of pure metaphysics and you are the one dragging metaphysics through the dirt trying to tie it contemporary scientific theory. As far as I understand it, there is no unified theory, but two realms of the law of physics. I am comfortable with that. A “Macro” physics (reality as we experience it) and a “Micro” physics (subatomic). We seem to have teased out a workable hypothesis for both realms even if we can’t knit them together and nothing is apparently violating either so much as to cause the theory to fall apart. Thus, these laws I assume to be universal, even among the most distant (13 billion light years away) galaxies, as well as the inner-space at the

  892. charliefoxtrot December 9, 2011 at 3:31 pm #

    i ll have you know i ve tribe on both sides, and most of the ‘white’ is from white slaves- you d know them as “indentured servants”…so fuck you, how about you go back where your people are from- this is my house!

  893. BeantownBill December 9, 2011 at 3:40 pm #

    Procon, yesterday I went to Connecticut to gamble at the casino (ok, I lost) and didn’t get to sleep until 4 am last night. I’m really too old for this… anyway, I wanted to reply to the end of your post, concerning MY post.
    At the time I was writing my comments, I thought this was my most important posting because I was trying to present the range of possible options for resolving our country’s issues (at least IMO). I had previously thought about solutions and had already come up with an answer. My primary criterion was which solution would actually work.
    Now before I come under the scrutiny of the anti-terrorist departments of the feds, let me say I am NOT in favor of violence at all, and do not condone it. But, alas, I fear the only viable option is #9 – a violent overthrow of the US government in a 2nd revolution. I’m just talking about the efficacy of the choices we have to straighten out the mess our society has gotten itself into, not whether or not I favor any choice. I hope I’m wrong about the chances of success for the other options.
    America has had anti-government violence before, obviously, so historical precedents exist. Our War of Independence was steeped in violence. The Civil War was nothing, if not violent. In the Great Depression, government troops killed many protesting miners, and I believe we were a lot closer to revolution than people realize. The 1960’s had violence, not a lot by modern standards, but we were only 1 or 2 issues away from widespread action.
    Now, in 2011, many citizens are hurting. It would take only a few charismatic individuals to whip up the masses. A smart, amoral rebel leader could maximize the probability of success in toppling the Washington establishment.

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  894. Bustin J December 9, 2011 at 3:43 pm #

    dale said “One Buddhist teacher I met referred to Buddhism as “enlightened hedonism”, with respect to daily exisitance. Enjoy fully, the suffering comes not with that, but the attachment to sensations which are transitory in nature.
    Simplicity flows naturally from having a realistic view of life.”
    Simplicity follows eh? I think the count of Buddhist monks having doused themselves with gas and lit a match in Tibet so far is in the 11-12 range protesting the Chinese genocide going on there. Rather unhedonistic. But here is the strength of ideology. Even as the material world becomes unbearable, in facing it, the transcendentalist has no tools. He doesn’t become a revolutionary and strike back at the architecture of domination, it is transmuted into self-abuse. Buddhism doesn’t transcend. It is indeed hedonism, an organized racket looking for hand-outs so as to fill the physical belly. You want true transcendence? Put a gun to your head or pick up that can of gasoline. To say Buddhism is enlightened hedonism is simply another way of ripping off hedonism. It is the seductive sales pitch for just another worthless old religion.
    Buddhism as an alternative to reality is a palliative to the pains of living, no doubt. And for some an effective psychological escape. But that is all it is. I suppose I am hamstrung here by my cultural upbringing, but such sentiment is rife with self-indulgent stupidity, collapsing all meaning. A kind of Old69 metaphysics, smugly self-justifying. Choose the worldview that is most flatteringly self-indulgent.
    The Greco-Roman antecedent culture rejects this view and the pursuit of objective reality built our civilization, arts, and science. Buddhist societies simply expanded their populations geometrically until they were impoverished and overcrowded. No desire, avoidance of pain, dismissal of the primacy of physical reality: these are all realms of weakness and degeneration.
    All the religious traditions that strive to transcend this world end up living in a shit-hole. In this it is no different from Christianity, Shintoism, Islam, or whatever else. It was a way of making powerless people feel transiently okay with being powerless. It is a kind of learned helplessness.
    When we near the inevitable disaster of organic decay and death the unprepared start panicking. They seek refuge in excuses for their own hopeless stupidity and cowardice. A lifetime of abnegation of life’s gifts starts with the indoctrination of the young. It spreads through a life as one is whipped into economic slavery and telegraphs destruction in every direction. Transcendental “wisdom” is a racket, a bunch of feel-good charms which work by appropriating a basic psychological toolkit.
    Luckily, anyone can steal the best tenets of Buddhism while still maintaining a vital link to our physical, incarnated reality. Desire is indeed to the cause of much suffering. I’ll skip the rest- the false piety, pacifism, and infantilizing cosmology.

  895. turkle December 9, 2011 at 3:54 pm #

    “the internet is our Lake”
    More like cesspool.

  896. Bustin J December 9, 2011 at 3:58 pm #

    Yep, the drone that Iran is showing off looks fake and probably is fake. The thing has a service altitude of 50,000 feet. Wheres the damage?
    As for Iran? Once they achieve nuclear capacity, I say fuck em. Wage, I agree with most pacifist points, but, this is exceptionally dangerous. If nuclear proliferation is to be curtailed, such moves must be countered.

  897. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 4:08 pm #

    Well let’s change the subject since you aren’t willing to engage on LBJ or his equal outcomes disaster. I suspect you only hate him for the usual hippy reasons of Vietnam – legitimate btw.
    Do you still believe the Goverment has no interest in squashing the 2nd Ammendment after Fast and Furious? After Holder’s performance of yesterday? And of course, after the door to door confiscation in New Orleans during Katrina.

  898. Vlad Krandz December 9, 2011 at 4:15 pm #

    And look how PC Academia has ingnored White Slavery – can’t have evil Whites as victims can we? They are despicable and that they’ve done this is an argument in my favor. Whites are offically the new niggers and Blacks, sacred cows who have been put above us. We have to work so they can lounge around and get some exercise now and then by attacking us in a mob.

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  899. Bustin J December 9, 2011 at 4:34 pm #

    XO said “Think hard: What does it “mean” to be American in the current context? ”
    America is, at the very least, implied by borders. When the borders fall, the entity falls. Our borders are being overrun by activists, multinationals, and corporate governance.
    Whatever “America” is, is defined by borders which delineate domains. Its quite simple.
    Some of the localized and individuated Occupy lists of demands (there are a handful for every city, it seems like) will have demands like, “open borders, the right to migrate anywhere, anytime”. Asoka recently professed this view as “enlightened”. What is does in reality is dilute citizenship. As useless as my vote is, as an American, it is even more useless in a foreign country.
    As far as Asoka’s multi-point list of immigrant demands, the USA is no longer the simple entity it was so long ago. The post-immigrant, post-unlimited growth world is looming. The problem of agriculture vis a vis labor is technical. The other day I was reading about the development of a robot by an outfit in Oregon which weeds fields.
    That there will be an existential crisis in the near future as automation obviates jobs, there is no question. There will even be a robot that spews nonsensical Old69-type gibberish, which is not to suggest that Old69 isn’t some advanced prototype of the same. His ideas about the obsolescence of jobs is coming true. With it goes economic theory. Nothing anyone does is of any value-creating purpose anymore. It is all just the destructive churn of natural resources being converted into garbage and waste via a socio-economic metabolism- the super-organism subjecting us all, of which corporate entities and their employees are functionary.
    The end of the economy is coming, but you cannot expect the attitude of the mass of people currently borrowing their sense of self-esteem from the churning of destructive capitalism to change overnight to enlightenment. As someone wise once said, “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it”.
    Most people just don’t understand the issues. They don’t understand their situation. Their politics, philosophy and even cosmology are all fuckered up.

  900. lbendet December 9, 2011 at 5:29 pm #

    On Ratigan today he gave us some new numbers. As of Nov. ’11 the bank bailouts internationally is a whopping $29.6 Trillion in value. The number of people in the US below the poverty line is 46 million.
    Of some hope was a campaign to buy American. Take a look at Ratigan’s site if you’re interested. 200,000 manufacturing jobs can be created by looking around for American made goods. There is a list.

  901. DeeJones December 9, 2011 at 6:03 pm #

    “Yeah, you’re still missing my point.
    I actually do NOT want the US to be able to attack other people at will, and without other people being able to fight back, or even defend themselves, for that matter.”
    Actually, I am not missing your point. You were missing mine.
    I agree with you that the US shouldn’t attack Iran, and that in the big picture, this is a GOOD thing. In fact, a really good thing as if the drone tech is shared with Russia & China by the Iranians, the US will be unable to attack them too.
    If stealth tech is rendered useless, then the US will not be tempted to launch first strikes. This is really a great thing to happen for the rest of the world.
    Then the 2-Billion Dollar Bomber (B2) can be retired to the trash-heap of useless war toys…
    🙂 🙂 (Double+ Happy Face)

  902. DeeJones December 9, 2011 at 6:16 pm #

    “Yep, the drone that Iran is showing off looks fake and probably is fake. The thing has a service altitude of 50,000 feet. Wheres the damage?”
    The damage is on the bottom, where they are concealing it. If you look at the vid closely, it looks like the wings (or at least one) came off and are now taped to the body. The landing gear probably tore off too.
    If you study the sites that are really concerned about this (debka for one), the Iranians are claiming that they TOOK CONTROL of the drone, away from our controllers, and made a forced landing with it.
    NOT that they shot it down.
    This is a very important point, of two: 1- that they were able to detect it (its supposed to be un-detectable); 2- that they are able to wrest control of it.
    Nobody thinks that its a fake.
    :/

  903. progress2conserve December 9, 2011 at 6:18 pm #

    Weird news day – try this, from the NYT:
    Rebuffed, Britain Opts for Isolation
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/10/world/europe/britain-isolated-after-vetoing-euro-zone-pact.html
    On the news, US stocks up 2%.
    Meanwhile, Hugh Heffner releases this month’s Playboy early to the newsstands, because the “spread?” on Lindsey Lohan was released early onto the internet.
    “The Leak Screwed Us,” says Heff.
    And the man knows a little something about screwing, they say.
    I’m going to have to look into that comedy career, again. You can’t make up material like this.
    Ozone, BTB, Vlad – responses coming tonight, with reasonable luck.

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  904. old69 December 9, 2011 at 6:25 pm #

    “It doesn’t contradict the apparent nature of a concrete, physical universe with universal laws and and existence independent of the observer. ”
    In fact the observer is the universe. The universe is the observer; there are no external laws and existence independent of the observer; there is no external reality, no space, no time, no extension, all is simply an Information Relationship, nothing else. And I am using exactly the extreme consequences of our scientific – logical reasoning to arrive at this conclusion. Aside from the fact that already the “official” quantum mechanics stuff has issues with observers, and aside from the fact that my parallel universes have nothing to do with those imagined by other quantum physicists, every observation, every event is the result of an interaction between something measuring (the Observer), “observing” signals and inputs (External Reality), processing those inputs (observer’s thought process) and executing outputs accordingly (Observer’s decision to output signals according to some mental model, to repetitive patterns discovered) (the brain, the neural network), therefore by using logic, if you change the observer, the design of the observer, you change all, you change the univere, you enter another parallel universe. Or you enter something unknown. And where does the external universe start and end and the observer start or end, where is the boundary, the delimitation ? And all of the other ideas I explained in the past….
    We are just one chance configuration designed in a certain way to perceive and interact and experience the universe accordingly, change the design you get something different. Prove me wrong: shove a jet engine in your brain and see what happens; the most you can say is, given this stable configuration of observer that our Man Brain is along with our culture, society,etc. and we are forced to live in a very specific universe with very specific laws based on pain/pleasure and the stability of the observer (you can’t throw yourslf in fire, etc.). But this is just one particular universe amongst an infinite array of possibilities…

  905. progress2conserve December 9, 2011 at 6:27 pm #

    6:18 post was supposed to go to the thread at large, and not be linked to Vlad.
    Sorry about that.
    I was trying to respond to Vlad over the 2nd amendment – but don’t have time just yet.
    Vlad, every post that drips hate and overt racism harms your cause. If you’d drop back and get a little perspective, you’d see this.
    More later.

  906. ctemple December 9, 2011 at 6:29 pm #

    I’ll vote for you Dog, hell I’ll vote for anybody, George W Bush, Bill Clinton, Reagan, O’Bummer when he was running for the Senate, hell I’ll vote for anybody.

  907. anti soak December 9, 2011 at 7:22 pm #

    Perhaps what was meant was those who have Billions of dollars are above the rule of law…
    Banksters, Hedge fund guys.
    Ordinary Bank robbers go to jail, Yes.
    And lay off racist Vlad, w/o him this blog id be boring!

  908. anti soak December 9, 2011 at 7:30 pm #

    Vlad, you must understand back in the old days BC pills didnt exist! and…….
    Abortion as feminazi power, yes.
    We know where France is goin, so the LA Times
    puts a woman on the cover [young and white]
    who used the abortion pill.
    She didnt want a child, she just wanted to know
    ‘what it was like to be pregnant’!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Rather than the LAT telling folks France is goin to the Muslims they front page that she wreck!
    And wage..did ya know there was a huge outcry in France when a jewish doc asked that abortion be legal not till 7 weeks but till the 8th week?
    Huge outcry against this, and against this ‘monster’, over there in ultra sophisticate land.

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  909. dale December 9, 2011 at 7:46 pm #

    infantilizing cosmology.
    ————————-
    BAHAHAHA!

  910. progress2conserve December 9, 2011 at 7:55 pm #

    Regarding the “Captured CIA Drone” now in Iranian possession. I don’t think so. They may have pieces of one that crashed – but I doubt the pieces are very useful. Take a look at this Al Jezerra video of of the “alleged” drone.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivPq6_DMHwM
    Take a close look. The “grids” in the front of the thing don’t match up. They look like an animal cage that a 10 year old tried to build.
    And every unmanned rocket that has ever been used by the US has had some sort of “fail safe” mechanism built in.
    Sorry folks, move along. There’s truly nothing to see here.
    (PS – I’m not a secret CIA mole, here to disrupt the dialog on CFN.)

  911. turkle December 9, 2011 at 8:06 pm #

    Shut….your….piehole…..once and for all. PLEASE.

  912. turkle December 9, 2011 at 8:07 pm #

    “Abortion as feminazi power, yes.”
    You are suuuuch an asshat.

  913. turkle December 9, 2011 at 8:11 pm #

    You and him are peas in a pod, I know. Hate, hate, hate. Why isn’t everyone white like me? Black people go back to Africa. Dem Jews and dere world banking conspiracy. Women don’t like me, and I don’t like women. Da illegals is teking all our jobs! A real pair of twits. Tweedledick and Tweedledumbfuck.

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  914. DeeJones December 9, 2011 at 8:20 pm #

    “And every unmanned rocket that has ever been used by the US has had some sort of “fail safe” mechanism built in.
    Sorry folks, move along. There’s truly nothing to see here.”
    Um, the US mil admits that the self-destruct failed to activate “somehow”. You can bet that in the control rooms in Nevada someone was saying “Shit!” alot. And someone else probably DID shit their pants.
    As for the grids, they are deliberately ‘off pattern’. That’s why its stealthy, or was.
    On the other hand, a friend says that perhaps it is a fake, of the Trojan Horse kind. A drone that was deliberately allowed to land in Iran & be captured. Hmmmm….. wonder why? False flag for an attack on Iran perchance? Be a pretty good reason – can’t allow that kinda tech to fall into Chinese or Ruskie hands, now can we?
    So sorry P2C, there really is plenty to see here, if one wants to, so no, I don’t think we should “just move along now”.
    Now, back to out show, staring Vlad the Racist.
    Or how about Lindsey Lohans’ tits! Nice……
    :}

  915. turkle December 9, 2011 at 8:50 pm #

    Oh, lookee how Vlad is bringing up his pet topic “white slavery.” for the 20th fucking time on this blog, even though it is completely off topic. We can only hope that Vlad is taken away and enslaved sometime soon so that he’ll stop taking his internet craps here.

  916. Widespreadpanic7 December 9, 2011 at 9:06 pm #

    Hey BustinJ impressive insight into the 19th century Indian Wars. It was a lot more complex then merely “we stole their land”. I’ve read quite a bit about one of the 1st Indian Wars, King Phillips’s War, 1675-1676, here in New England. It set the pattern for all that followed.
    Also you mention the Philippine Insurrection, 1899-1902 (with battles continuing till 1916). That’s a fascinating period. Its astonishing that the US could project its power all the way across the Pacific at that early date. It was Manifest Destiny gone wild, the Indian Wars moved offshore. (with all the same officers, along with Civil War Generals and officers who would become Generals in WW1 & WW2) At 5000 dead US troops and 250,000 dead Philippinos, a conventional war leading into a guerilla war, and growing unpopularity here at home, it is the one event in American history which most resembles the war in Iraq.
    The Philippine War had a pretty good ending, as I hope Iraq will.
    –WSP7

  917. charliefoxtrot December 9, 2011 at 9:21 pm #

    sorry, turk- that s my fault; he said the usual asshole drivel about ‘whites created america’, and when i disabused him of the notion, he invited me to ‘if i don t like it, leave’ i told him my ancestry consists of tribe and white slaves (indentured servants), so fuck you, etc…i should have known he d miss the point like he misses the hole, and latch on to the color angle…again, sorry i m trying to just ignore him; but jumpin’ crippled jesus fucking christ on a yellow pogo-stick, he says such stupid things, sometimes!

  918. turkle December 9, 2011 at 9:24 pm #

    “White Nationalist”
    Is that another way of saying raging asshole?

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  919. Buck Stud December 9, 2011 at 9:25 pm #

    ” I’m 56. I plan to make it to 100.”
    Prog, I hope you make to a hundred also and your current health issue works out. But I have to ask: How does extended life expectancy factor into your concern over increasing population numbers? Of course, TLE emergency would kill two birds with one stone in that regard, but just assuming the status- quo remains the same?

  920. Buck Stud December 9, 2011 at 9:34 pm #

    If I were a young man looking into the storm of TLE I might consider learning how to become a metal-smith/jewelry maker. For reasons beyond my comprehension, one-half of the population is always going to have an irrational attachment to finely crafted rings, pendants, and trinkets. And for reasons I do understand, parts of the other half will always have an appreciation and need for high quality tools.
    Another trade worth considering is shoe maker IMO. Just today I was thinking it has been two years since I bought a pair of Birkenstock shoes and they’re still holding up great.

  921. daofirry2 December 9, 2011 at 9:41 pm #

    good article by Jim Jubak, about the chronology and particulars of various yucky things coming soon.
    http://money.msn.com/investment-advice/the-3-big-crises-of-2012-jubak.aspx

  922. progress2conserve December 9, 2011 at 9:54 pm #

    “How does extended life expectancy factor into your concern over increasing population numbers?”
    -buck-
    Good question, Buck.
    “To be truly alive – is to open your eyes and fight for a better day.” -anon-*
    *anon, because I just made it up.
    Check it out – Zero GOOGLE hits.
    And, as I’ve said before – my wife and I did our part for a sustainable future. With 200,000,000 people in the US, we just had two kids. It was a conscious decision for the good of the Planet.
    We were two young fecund adults.
    We could have had a whole huge litter.
    Who knew – in the late 1970’s – that the Zero Population Growth movement was going to be COMPLETELY SOLD OUT in the United States?
    Bastards.

  923. charliefoxtrot December 9, 2011 at 10:06 pm #

    bastards might be part of the problem…

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  924. Jack Waddington December 9, 2011 at 10:10 pm #

    old69: December 9, 2011 6:25 PM |
    I’m inclined to agree with you if I read you right; that it depends on the observer and how that observer thinks/calculates and reasons
    I would state it much simpler but perhaps more contentiously. It is thinking and calculating that is the problem. I contend that thinking has only be around with us homo sapiens for about 30,000 years, and calculating much less. Before that we were like all other creatures just feeling beings. What caused the change? I have written a whole book about; without much chance of it even being read.
    If thinking, as I contend, is mankind’s first and greatest ‘act-out’ then all the science, reasonings, calculations and mythologies (religions) are pure myth. Why do we seem to waste so much time and energy trying to figure all this stuff out. Why don’t we just very simply enjoy life for all it is worth? Sadly, according to me, because we suffer the most debilitating disease ever … neurosis.
    Jack

  925. progress2conserve December 9, 2011 at 10:15 pm #

    “Do you still believe the Goverment has no interest in squashing the 2nd Ammendment after Fast and Furious? After Holder’s performance of yesterday?”
    -vlad-
    Of course, Vlad, the government would like to squash the 2nd amendment. They’d also like us to wear hard hats in National Parks, in case of falling pine cones.
    But now, I think the laws we’ve got are the laws we’re going to stumble and flop into the next decade with – until the whole crumbling edifice topples over. You read that link you posted, that AK reposted? We, in the US, are in the “decline” stage of Empire. That means we’ll fight a lot about things that will never change – like gun control. (and probably abortion)
    (Maybe immigration, too – but I still hold out hope.)
    And, in my particular case, I’m betting neither local authorities nor the GBI will ever confiscate guns from lawful owners here. So, if the Feds require something like that – I’ll just mosey down to the local Sheriff’s department and obtain a county issued weapon. Failing that, I’ll get myself officially deputized and dig up one of the weapons that *somebody* buried out in the woods, somewhere. Sometimes it’s all in where you are and who you know. That, and how far and in which direction, your particular iteration of collapse proceeds.

  926. progress2conserve December 9, 2011 at 10:44 pm #

    “Now I’VE wasted your time and posting space. See? ;o)” -O3-
    Never happens, Ozone. Although I do sometimes have to read you twice to figure out just what you are trying to say.
    “I think you simply want me to engage on your pet immigration topic. No problem; I think your points are valid,” -ozone-
    All right, sing it, O3!
    “..but I don’t think you’ll have a chance to prove/disprove your theories, or implement much of anything in that regard. As you’ve said, it’s all about the timeline, and I think credit is going to evaporate a lot faster than you seem to.
    – ozone, stopping the song – haha!
    OK, ozone – maybe this is proper debate fodder for CFN. What will collapse look like? You say lack of paper money at the bank triggers it. I disagree. Surely there is a plan to get pallets of paper money out to the Fed branches and on to local/regional banks in a timely manner. The stuff IS just paper, right.
    (Ok, maybe not. Since DeeJones suggests that our high tech weapons land themselves on hostile foreign soil. Let’s both wait a week and SEE, DEE, Shall wee?) hah, again.
    Anyway, Ozone – I’ll have the paper money shortage as a trigger-of-collapse debate if you like.
    But I’d rather concentrate on something more – universal.
    Your a prepper. You’ve probably always been a prepper. I know this – because I always have been something of a prepper, too. The stories I could tell – back to the 60’s, of neighborhood fallout shelters lovingly stocked. And then in the early ’80’s, food stores, gold, guns, and ammo – lovingly arrayed.
    All for naught. Or not. Depending on your perspective – and someday, there will be *something bad.* We don’t know what, exactly. But I’ll guarantee that Ozone Pete will be ready. And P2C will be as ready as he can get.
    And it’s the timeline. If it is 6 months to collapse, nothing much matters. Gas up the chainsaw, buy another pack of files, and wait for it. But – what if collapse is 10 years off? Or 15. Then immigration matters, a great deal.
    I suspect your preparations are ready, ozone.
    Maybe now, it’s time to turn outward –
    And try to make US population growth slow.
    Thank you for your support.

  927. eljxanjgil December 9, 2011 at 10:56 pm #

    “??)?”???????????????????????????2????????)(0)???????2011?10?14?08:43??????????????????????

    ?????

    2011?10?14?/ no . 542???

    ?????????6 ~ 12??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????4??????……??:10????????????????????????????????????

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    ??????????6 ~ 12????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????!?12?5??17:30??????????????????????????????????????????????

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    ??????????????????????? ??????????? ?????????????????????????????????(??????????????????……?;

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    ???1?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????2011??????????????00????????????????????!?

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    ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????? ??? s???n????????????????

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    ?????????? ????????????????????????????!??????????????????????????????????????????? ??? s???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????n????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????!?

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  928. Bustin J December 9, 2011 at 11:12 pm #

    Jack said “Why do we seem to waste so much time and energy trying to figure all this stuff out. Why don’t we just very simply enjoy life for all it is worth?”
    Before human beings had an ego, our thoughts appeared to us as ethereal voices coming from nowhere. And many people don’t have the ability to choose pleasure in life. Why can’t the guy I walked past, just the other day, the guy mumbling and drooling on the bus stop bench, with vomit on his shirt, having pissed his pants, choose to very simply enjoy life. Its because his brain is scrambled. Try as he might he is functionally unable to achieve enlightenment, much less bus fare.
    The facts of life are complicated but not unravel-able. The layperson gets nowhere doubting the conclusions of experts. Humanity really is in a new ballgame. Science is just a giant factory producing insight, gift-wrapped and hand-delivered. Nothing trickles down like the truth. You should try it some time, it is a mental analgesic par excellence.
    There are benefits to being alive, now. Later, maybe, maybe not. But I’m not clamoring for the past for several reasons: strife, work, and disease.
    Oldsmobile said “The universe is the observer; there are no external laws and existence independent of the observer; there is no external reality, no space, no time, no extension, all is simply an Information Relationship, nothing else. And I am using exactly the extreme consequences of our scientific – logical reasoning to arrive at this conclusion.”
    This is disingenuous. There is nothing logical about making the assumption you’re trying to prove and using as a premise.
    Science concludes there are external rules, by and large. You falsify this as your premise and then from there use that to reason that same thing as conclusion. You’re using a reasoning process in an invalid way- it doesn’t invalidate the process. Its like taking four wheels and a steering wheel, wrapping it all up in baling wire and then claiming automobiles are a fiction because you can’t drive it anywhere. Your basic idea is, you take the fruits of science and then use disparate theories to claim its conclusions are invalid.
    “Prove me wrong: shove a jet engine in your brain and see what happens;”
    An absurdity. If such evolves from your reasoning, the reasoning is flawed. Its picturesque, imaginative bullshit.
    “the most you can say is, given this stable configuration of observer that our Man Brain is along with our culture, society,etc. and we are forced to live in a very specific universe with very specific laws based on pain/pleasure and the stability of the observer (you can’t throw yourslf in fire, etc.). But this is just one particular universe amongst an infinite array of possibilities…”
    Your contentions are overwrought. Lets say my brain influences the outcome of some microscopic events. So what? I am a function of space/time, I move, it moves. I change, it changes. Again, so what? I put a piece of chicken in the microwave. I dial in 3 minutes, its cooked. Invariably. Stare at the oven door and try and influence that. Lets say your involvement nudges a few microwaves to the left or right a ?m or 2. Again, so what? All you are continually proving is that your subjective experience may be the limiting factor in realizing the truth of the way things are. I’m down with that. Your perception of reality is entirely contingent on a specific equilibrium of chemical and electrical signals playing out across a network of cells, and thats all, as far as I can tell. Put your head in the microwave and disrupt those interactions and see what happens. Ingest lead over a long period of time. See what happens. Of course as a meta-physicist you may not be inclined to investigations of this type. I recommend mescaline and whiskey, come back and let us know where it takes you.
    The major player in the universe is standard physics. The fraction of uncertainty at the quantum level allows for randomness over large scales of time and space. What is left to explain? I think the theories will be refined at best- not refuted.
    But the idea of the observer being integral to the process is simply a metaphysical trope. We are all active agents, however, no one can move heavy matter with our minds. We may be able to inadvertently shift minor waveforms into slightly erratic behavior, at best. We are limited creatures. We think and figure things out because some minds that is exactly what makes life interesting. As a side effect it produces evolutionary and survival advantages.
    Anyone who thinks humanity is going to end in a gunfight, glowing in post-nuclear radioactivity, will have to do so over many dead intellects. As a corollary, anyone who wants to is free to make enemies of this class of people, we’ll see what happens.
    I apologize in advance if the appearance of myself in your world was not anticipated by you. Feel free to return to your previously scheduled positions and/or velocities.
    Uri Geller was a butt-frustrated con artist. Mediums don’t talk to the dead. When you die your parts are taken apart and recycled.
    Last time I checked approaches were being evolved through experimentation to get around the observer effect. We’ll recruit some naive, double blind atomic elements to measure our quantum qubits when programming the AI that will fold our laundry.

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  929. progress2conserve December 9, 2011 at 11:19 pm #

    “But, alas, I fear the only viable option is #9 – a violent overthrow of the US government in a 2nd revolution. I’m just talking about the efficacy of the choices…” BTB-
    Bill, I’ve been mulling over possible responses to you – and I can’t come up with a good one. You may be right. But the idea that you, a mild mannered (I presume) real estate broker from the suburbs of Boston – think we’re so far gone that the best, likely, answer is violent overthrow of the government. Wow, my mind is a little bit boggled, right now.
    (Plus, I’m still counting on you for that job interview – should rapid global warming force me to migrate out of the South.)
    =====================
    I keep looking at the OWS protests. And I keep thinking – where am I, with respect to the economic pecking order of the 99%. And more importantly, where are my kids – and where do I think we’ll be economically in the near future, and then in the far future. And in the event of severe dislocation, or revolution – what is the best thing for the future of my family.
    Hard questions.
    Good post, BTB. You’ve got me thinking.
    Thanks!

  930. IxNoMor December 9, 2011 at 11:26 pm #

    “Eleuthero said:
    “Vacuum fluctuations are virtual particles that arise from NOTHING …””
    Not sure I buy that. All that energy in the vacuum is from cosmic radiation (big bang?!…) traveling in all directions – i.e. zero point energy. The vacuum is not isolated, with differential equation boundary conditions – it is in the middle of violent radiation, bombarded from all directions.
    I know, I just said the same thing exactly two different ways (kinda)…

  931. progress2conserve December 9, 2011 at 11:29 pm #

    “You’re using a reasoning process in an invalid way- it doesn’t invalidate the process. Its like taking four wheels and a steering wheel, wrapping it all up in baling wire and then claiming automobiles are a fiction because you can’t drive it anywhere.” -bustinj-
    DAMN, that’s beautiful, bustin.
    You may be an Atheist, but you sure can come up with some pur-dy similes.
    Thanks!

  932. IxNoMor December 9, 2011 at 11:30 pm #

    Furthermore, those “virtual” (actually very real) particle/anti-particle pairs result from that very same radiation, when it rarely results in *collisions*…

  933. k-dog December 9, 2011 at 11:50 pm #

    “Who knew – in the late 1970’s – that the Zero Population Growth movement was going to be COMPLETELY SOLD OUT in the United States?
    Bastards.”

    I know, we only had one. I share your amazement. COMPLETELY SOLD OUT !!!! Nobody here under 40 has a clue about what we are even talking about or how such a quaint value could ever have been part of the American zeitgeist.

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  934. k-dog December 9, 2011 at 11:57 pm #

    where am I, with respect to the economic pecking order of the 99%
    k-dog is at exactly 50%, another reason I’d make a good pigeon perch.

  935. anti soak December 10, 2011 at 12:57 am #

    Because the Media LOVES immigration!

  936. ctemple December 10, 2011 at 1:14 am #

    Beautiful huh?
    I would point out that scientific experts gave us the atomic bomb and let it be used, they gave us napalm, mustard gas, and LSD.
    Experts also said that mortgage backed securities were triple a, or that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, it was a ‘slam dunk’. These were experts, the top men in the field. The rest of us can rest easy, we have Mr Propleller Head on the job.
    Not to mention that many people can’t take a piss without using all the electronic gadgets that these science geeks gave us.

  937. anti soak December 10, 2011 at 1:14 am #

    I looked, Yes Indias having problems…
    the biggest isnt noted there, That its population increases by 1/4 Billion a DECADE!!!!

  938. anti soak December 10, 2011 at 1:17 am #

    Theres a real cost to cheap labor, and its astronomical!

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  939. anti soak December 10, 2011 at 1:21 am #

    from SBPDL site:
    as South Park recently stated, “Black people can do no wrong.”
    It’s no longer the 1960s, but in 2011 Staten Island a mob of Black girls had not just a water hose, but a water cannon used to try and disperse the Mahogany Mob that was threatening police officers:

  940. anti soak December 10, 2011 at 1:25 am #

    ‘Do they mean the McDonald’s jobs that account for much of the job creation in the USA in 2011? Do they mean the webmasters who work at small tech companies for $12/hour? Do they mean the jobs as baristas at Peet’s Coffee because a kid with a mechanical engineering degree from Dartmouth had ALL his would-be jobs outsourced to Absurdistan a decade ago? ‘
    Govt Jobs? Military? Homeland Security and TSA?

  941. IxNoMor December 10, 2011 at 1:31 am #

    “Not to mention that many people can’t take a piss without using all the electronic gadgets that these science geeks gave us.”
    Prostate cancer. I already gave you the *CURE* to that.
    Clue the *F* up. Time for a *CLEANSING*…

  942. anti soak December 10, 2011 at 2:05 am #

    Political Cesspool has a great review of Costners new movie!
    ‘Mr. Brooks is akin to two films by Jewish director Joel Schumacher.
    In his 1996 film adaptation of John Grisham’s novel A Time to Kill, Schumacher creates a scene in which two filthy and brutish Southern Whites stalk, rape and hang a 10-year-old black girl named Tonya Hailey. Three years later his film 8mm, starring Nicolas Cage, appeared.
    In that film, evil emanated from White culture itself. For starters, a wealthy man named “Mr. Christian” has paid good money to commission an actual snuff film. The man hired to do the mutilation is shown to be an ordinary White man whose mother is repeatedly shown to be a practicing Christian.
    And at the end of the film, the detective informs the widow Christian that her husband indeed sponsored a real snuff film. Overwhelmed, she kills herself, leaving a note saying, “Try to forget us.” The underlying message, then, is that White “Christian” society is irredeemably malevolent and must be made to disappear.’

  943. rippedthunder December 10, 2011 at 2:57 am #

    “Who Love’s ya Baby?” Kojak, 1972
    Spy Vs. Spy
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fifItoMPTw

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  944. Patrizia December 10, 2011 at 3:08 am #

    Yesterday I was quite depressed.
    Nothing really changes and if it does it is not for the best.
    Then the unthinkable happened.
    First it looks like the Euro is saved, at least for now.
    I couldn’t agree more with Merkel.
    If you want a change YOU have to change.
    You cannot go on forever making debts, sooner or later it must stop.
    And sooner is better.
    Second a small step against banks and banksters is on the way, and Cameron and the City are leaving Europe.
    He doesn’t understand (or cannot understand for votes reasons) that is NOT Europe that needs Britain, it is UK that needs Europe.
    It is like if California left the US.
    I wouldn’t bet on its future.
    Second I have two children and both never cared for politics.
    Now you couldn’t find anybody who cares more.
    Something is changing, the moment people begin to care you can hope again in the future.
    History teaches that there is no weapons that can block a revolution or freedom or justice, when the mass is hit.
    The guillotine business will explode, I am looking forward…

  945. Vlad Krandz December 10, 2011 at 4:04 am #

    What do you think of Wage’s story about her MiMa having 14 abortions? Is there some symbolism to the number 14 that I don’t know about? Surely no woman could so evil and vile as to have 14 abortions!

  946. Vlad Krandz December 10, 2011 at 4:23 am #

    You see with people like Ozone or Lucan the hatred has evolved into a deeper form – they no longer even bother calling us Nazis – they just ignore us and dehumanize us by never speaking to us even as they refer to us in third person code.
    To Ozone, any White who doesn’t share his redistributionist paradigm is evil and subhuman – and deserves a re-education camp at best or a Russian walk in the woods failing that. I mean Ethnomasochists have to get their aggression out somehow, right? So Whites who don’t sign onto the Suicide Pact are fair game.

  947. Vlad Krandz December 10, 2011 at 4:32 am #

    You are the Boston Terrier is the video.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/ramzpaul#p/a/u/1/QB2ocldbb2Q

  948. Vlad Krandz December 10, 2011 at 4:38 am #

    Thanks I’ll check it out. The amount of energy they have put into conditioning us is beyond belief. But the conditioned cannot see it – because they think their sick conditioning is reality and that the Film makers are just creating what’s really there. Once awakened, one looks at life with wonder and wonders what else am I missing?
    30,000 White Women raped per year by Blacks – less than 10 Black women raped by Whites. Turkle and Charlie Fox Trot are victims of Unspeakable Evil.

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  949. tegmark December 10, 2011 at 5:13 am #

    What I am saying is much simpler than what you think: you can’t see that I am looking at it all from a higher abstraction level, that’s all. I don’t deny any science, any reality, I don’t deny the external world “model” we have, etc., I don’t believe in magic, the mind bends matter, etc. I am 100 % convinced most of science, technology and engineering are correct, perfect for our uses, etc.
    I am saying something very simple: up until now we have always assumed the mind brain as a constant, as a given, as an invariant, and from there we developed all our correct science. That is ok, nothing wrong with that. I am saying that if you change the design of the mind brain, you will get something different, something else. What will you get ? anyone’s guess.
    The problem lies in how will you change the mind brain ? what new circuits will you put in it, and who will change who’s brain to perform this new experiment ?
    “All you are continually proving is that your subjective experience may be the limiting factor in realizing the truth of the way things are.”
    No, there is no “truth the way things are”; things are not in any way, they are only in a certain way for us living according to a given design : everything must be compared to the state of death.
    The subjectivity I talk about is the subjectivity of the constant, invariant design of the Man Brain as an Observer, as an Interactor, as the only Interactor we know and have reference to. In this sense all is subjectivity, we are only subjectivity.
    How many different new designs of minds and brains are there ? who knows ? trillions ? and what kind of universe, life, experience do they live ? etc. Are there some constant invariants across all possible designs of minds brains ? I doubt very much, I think there are no invariants, all is subject to being defined and assigned differently and arbitrarily.
    The only absolute, external reality you can imagine is that in which there is one invariant valid for all possible brains, but which brain will discover that invariant ? you would have to be all of them and even brains that lie and deny invariants, so as a logical demonstration, there are no invariants, there are no absolutes.
    Am I wrong ? good, I want to be wrong, I like to “waste time”…
    Now crack open your skull and stick wild stuff in it, tell me what new world you will visit…
    Now, busty, be a good little boy, mommy tells you to go back to ilovephilosophy and study deeply all of nameta9’s posts (and build a trillion 1966 oldsmobile 98s), then you can go out and play in the backyard just like my mommy tells me, and then I go and play in the backyard with my toy cars and run around while mommy cooks in the kitchen (no fagots and lesbos and queers in my suburb, we are white traditional family with daddy at work in that crappy corporate job that always wants to hose him and mommy at home cooking…)

  950. lbendet December 10, 2011 at 8:23 am #

    Fear, baby Fear
    Rachel Madow segment on Obama speech about Presidential power to incarcerate “terrorists”.
    Yep are rule of law, alright. One of my friends on FB posted this link.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7mwP5Di5NE&feature=player_embedded

  951. charliefoxtrot December 10, 2011 at 8:39 am #

    caught a bit of an interview with a few congressmen last night…they brought up a couple of ideas i think have merit: what if representatives of any district had to spend most of yheir time IN their respective districts…? and that contributions to their campaigns had to be from individual persons- not corporations or PACs- from that district…? the interesting (new to me, anyway) ideas were that advertising should be free immediately i tweaked that one to read free for issues, or pro- candidate ads; they should have to pay for negative ads, and one of them suggested australia s method of mandatory attendance at the polls on election day- not mandatory voting, as that is a free-speech issue, but if candidates know the entire base might vote; their campaigns tend to be more inclusive and centrist rather than extreme and divisive…anyway this would all be a good step or two towards moving back towards a representative govt, something we haven t had for some time… 2% anyone?

  952. DeeJones December 10, 2011 at 8:50 am #

    “He doesn’t understand (or cannot understand for votes reasons) that is NOT Europe that needs Britain, it is UK that needs Europe.
    It is like if California left the US.
    I wouldn’t bet on its future.”
    YOu got that right – the UK is now very dependent on the EU for energy, the North Sea fields are in big time decline.
    As for Calif, naw, they could split from the US, and be quite fine, thank you. The US depends on Calif. for lots of its agriculture produce.
    I really hope you do well there in Italy, Patrizia.
    Best of luck, Dee 🙂

  953. progress2conserve December 10, 2011 at 8:53 am #

    “I share your amazement. COMPLETELY SOLD OUT !!!! Nobody here under 40 has a clue about what we are even talking about or how such a quaint value could ever have been part of the American zeitgeist.”
    -kdog, concerning Zero Population Growth-
    Thanks for the confirmation, K. Sometimes I think I dreamed the whole thing up. And that the go, grow, go Reagan 80’s and Clinton 90’s – that lead to today’s unsustainable US population numbers –
    Were all just a bad dream. But now I’m fully awake and the nightmare is real as a stone, and the madness continues to accelerate.
    ===========================
    There is the meme that floats through the CFNo’sphere from time to time – that ONLY the childless have any right to argue for reduced immigration – or slower US population growth.
    I don’t get it. And the meme may be a CFN only phenomenon, and mostly be due to the “asoka. multitude” – claiming he’s a 70 year old black man who got a vasectomy at age 20, or whatever. (That would have been about 1960 – long before Global or US acknowledgment of overpopulation issues. So this is quite unlikely.)
    But I’ve seen Buck S and a couple of others pick up on the meme. Somebody try to explain it to me, please. I don’t get it.
    ===============================
    Americans are pretty good at taking care of our own tiny little families, but then ignoring the “family” that comprises our friends, neighbors, community, and country –
    So, we ALL (red, yellow, black, white) deliberately ignore what is best for our own country, people here NOW – in favor of some abstract, even impossible, “family of man” ideal.
    It’s a disconnect. It’s a disconnect that WILL lead to much pain – sooner or later.
    For the US, and for the rest of the Planet.
    Strange. And most unfortunate.

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  954. progress2conserve December 10, 2011 at 9:09 am #

    Another CFN meme that crops up from time to time – is the idea that older people should just go ahead and DIE and get out of the way for younger people.
    I’ve got three problems with that.
    1. I am, with luck, going to BE older.
    2. There is wisdom in the elderly that society – especially society under stress – is going to need.
    3. I can actually see where enough of this line of thought – in a severely stressed and hungry society will lead to deliberate aggression toward the old, by the young. In fact, it’s easy to see already, if you know where to look.
    =========
    I don’t think we’re heading for forced euthanasia of everybody over 60 – “lets put granny on an ice floe” sort of thing.
    But I do foresee a day – already here, to some extent – where the elderly need to be careful out in public. Because some of the arrogant young – following the meme – think the elderly should be knocked down, pushed out of the way, robbed, or worse.
    Yeah – a society that allows a meme that people deserve disrespect, just because they are old – has a great big problem in the works.
    Something else that probably isn’t going to end well for us in the US – both young AND old.

  955. DeeJones December 10, 2011 at 9:18 am #

    “(Ok, maybe not. Since DeeJones suggests that our high tech weapons land themselves on hostile foreign soil. Let’s both wait a week and SEE, DEE, Shall wee?) hah, again.”
    You are again misconstruing what I am saying, but I give up.
    You know, I do agree with you regarding immigration in the US, it has been used to destroy the job base (legal imm), & to depress the wage base (illegal imm).
    But you have no clue as to foreign policy.
    :/

  956. ozone December 10, 2011 at 9:55 am #

    I wait; calmly and quietly.
    Jump froggie, jump.

  957. progress2conserve December 10, 2011 at 9:57 am #

    “You are again misconstruing what I am saying, but I give up.”
    -dee-
    Don’t give up, dee. And I know US foreign policy is a mess.
    But I’ll give you good odds (10-1?) that that “thing” in that Al Jezerra video is nothing more than a rough mock-up of the drone that obliterated itself in an Iranian desert somewhere.
    You may be right. But odds are you are wrong, in this particular case.
    I say give it a week to let the dust settle. You want to revisit this next Saturday morning?
    You got a paypal account so we can settle our bet? hehheh?

  958. lbendet December 10, 2011 at 10:10 am #

    I wish you guys would stop the nonsense on who to hate on this blog. We are facing some very extreme forms of kleptocracy and war and end of the rule of law.
    More on MF Global–it gets much worse–even physical gold is at stake.
    ZeroHedge.com today discussing an article on Bloomberg:
    [The Gold “Rehypothecation” Unwind Begins: HSBC Sues MF Global Over Disputed Ownership Of Physical Gold
    …story by Bloomberg according to which HSBC, that other great gold “depository” after JP Morgan (and the custodian of none other than GLD)is suing MG Global “to establish whether he or another person is the rightful owner of gold worth about $850,000 and silver bars underlying contracts between the brokerage and a client.”
    …Essentially, this is at the heart of the whole commingling situation: was MF Global using rehypothecated client gold to satisfy liabilities? ]

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  959. Alexandra December 10, 2011 at 10:24 am #

    Well our darling Dave’s hoisted up our own flag of Union-Jack independence, up that slippery EEC flag pole, and put two Churchillian fingers up to the Merkozy plan €uro CPR deal…
    And so what will the end result be?
    Well for starters, soon we’ll be very free of Brussels based red tape, and in a year or two it will become obvious to the savvy that we’re the favoured destination for Chinese foreign direct investment capital in Europe. As the super-rich Chinese just love their Chelsea & Kensington based homes and our elite public schools, while of course not forgetting to mention our splendid Scottish shooting estates… Then we have our southern coastline based boat builders of super-yachts. One of which I personally know of a lovely American based chap who’s investing several million $dollars worth of capital right now to get a superlative 25m worth of sail powered vessel result.
    *sniggers*
    And Dee we’ll be getting our LNG/Oil from Norway & Russia whom have never been in the United States of Europe, much like Switzerland will never be also. So me thinks our lights will not be going out during this coming Xmas or even the next few either, or indeed any time soon unless a planet threatening cataclysmic event like this one maybe does eventually happen?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWQ2YZG8kcA&
    And as Uncle Chris rightly says, it doesn’t matter how much energy costs, when the B-o-E/FED/ECB has the ability to generate the right amount of cash to pay for it – what matters is that its still ‘physically’ available for export. I’d wager there are at least a couple of decades left for sure, time enough for those that will continue to have funds to pay for it…. just as with any black market. So most of us ‘boomers’ will go to the grave with self-satisfied hedonistic smiles on our faces… and f#ck the consequences for sure.
    This is maybe ugly for some to contemplate, but part of u’man nature, you don’t need to visit a crass dead thinking philosphy’esque based website to figure that one out!
    And for those Mayan end of the world doomist predictors too… sorry but Jan 1st 2013 will slip nicely in and usher along another 12 month bobbing about the seas period for me. I for one will be toasting it with a fine glass of champagne, it would be churlish not to do so.
    And with that thought season’s greetings to all the CFN’kollectiv… and Jim specifically as he always keeps up with the excellent standard of black comedy, and so beautifully verbally crafted! An inspiration to any one of us that aspires to write as well.
    Toodle-pip…

  960. dale December 10, 2011 at 11:16 am #

    I was thinking it has been two years since I bought a pair of Birkenstock shoes and they’re still holding up great.
    —————————–
    My sympathies….;)

  961. dale December 10, 2011 at 11:33 am #

    Is it just my imagination or are a number of people here taking themselves WAAAAAY to seriously?
    Second question:
    Do those of you who write 2,500 word manifestos twice a week really think anyone is reading them?
    Third question:
    When is that Chinese guy going to give up?

  962. anti soak December 10, 2011 at 11:40 am #

    Its ‘too’ not ‘to’……..
    and are those Chinese or Japanese Characters?

  963. anti soak December 10, 2011 at 11:42 am #

    The story may be true, there is a woman in Upstate NY who buried 10-20 babies from crib death who was under investigation for murder.

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  964. anti soak December 10, 2011 at 11:52 am #

    I listened to some of it but found it boring.
    Is Rachel taking a stand?

  965. anti soak December 10, 2011 at 11:54 am #

    ZPG……….If young Americans had traveled to the worst cities in Mexico and lectured on ZPG it might have worked.
    Instead they got ‘Unicorn’ Profs and lectures about Mumia and classes with Angela [Davis].

  966. charliefoxtrot December 10, 2011 at 12:31 pm #

    how s this fer a pisser: airforce has been sending incinerated partial remains of soldiers to the FUCKING LANDFILL, mixed in with ‘medical waste’, since at leasty ’96…and refuses to say who and how many…they cite “…signed waiver forms”, and that “it would require massive amounts of money and manpower” to go over records…these motherfuckers better pray there s no such thing as ghosts!! Source: infoclearinhouse

  967. charliefoxtrot December 10, 2011 at 12:36 pm #

    and pakistan is threatening nuclear war with india over proposed hydroelectric dams scheduled upstream…

  968. Rhino December 10, 2011 at 12:54 pm #

    I think Dave had the right take on this thing.
    Seems to me like this “deal” is a first class cockup in the making. A Reuters report said that there’s still months of negotiation still ahead. And then, even if signatures are put to paper, it might require a whole bunch of national, popular referenda to ratify the whole unworkable mess. And of course these votes can be lost.
    Seems to me all they’re doing is prolonging this “crisis” (the passage of time generally not making these things any better).
    What really made me laugh were reports that some European govts were lining printing companies to start churning out new national currencies in case the Euro crashes and burns.
    You talk about rich Chinese buying up big sections of your lovely island. Just watch, they’ll start sniffing at your football clubs, likely starting small, wetting their beaks with financially distressed outfits in the lower echelons, (how’s Pompey faring nowadays?) and then moving into the Premier League ie Man U could use a bailout given the financial hole the Glazers dug. And Abramovich, how much loot did he sink into Chelsea?
    But don’t worry, you’re not alone. I hear that Chinese bazillionairs are sniffing around all over in places like Iceland and the west coast of Canada and no doubt other places. If you were in their shoes what would you do? They have a dangerous regime in China that has no regard for human life and the rule of law and all that other neat stuff. So if I were a rich Chinese I’d want to find someplace safe and secure to live and to launder my money – ill-gotten or not.

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  969. Buck Stud December 10, 2011 at 1:31 pm #

    To look beyond the charming seduction of the British inflection only to find the lame ghost of Maggie Thatcher singing jingoism. My God, how far you people have fallen since Ruskin.

  970. Vlad Krandz December 10, 2011 at 1:32 pm #

    Dale, great points. Buddhism offers moral guidance to those who have rejected or outgrown their ancestral beliefs. But one has to eat what is offered – one can’t pick and choose. Who can forget Ken Wilber’s bitter resentment that the Dalai Lama condemns anal sex? (the things these people think are important!) Or on abortion: the Mahayana condemns it outright as Roshis Aitken and Kapleau have made very clear. Last time I mentioned Kapleau, Asoka broke out in demonic laughter. He obviously doesn’t believe Whites have Buddha Nature – even after all his years with Osho. Can you believe it?

  971. k-dog December 10, 2011 at 1:53 pm #

    Apparently nothing destroys solidarity more effectively.

  972. k-dog December 10, 2011 at 3:05 pm #

    “and one of them suggested Australia’s method of mandatory attendance at the polls on election day.”
    Somebody bucking the trend? The American trend is to eliminate polls altogether and implement mail only voting. It’s a sure way to reduce participation by the more disadvantaged. I’ll leave it to you to figure out what ‘%’ benefits.
    I was arguing with a friend before my last local election. He said mail in ballots would make no difference. The election came and went and guess who forgot to vote. It wasn’t me.
    There is an exception, Florida. Closing polls there is a good idea (at least for presidential elections) it saves fossil fuel.
    When mail-in ballots become universal the loss of transparency will corrupt the whole thing and voting will be pointless. You may as well save a stamp when that happens but for a while mail-in ballots will work ok.
    There was a reason old ‘inefficient’ padlocked ballot boxes were used in the first place. There is a reason why international observers travel to troubled democracies to make sure padlocked ballot boxes are used.
    There is a reason not to worry about how much padlocks cost.
    But not where I live. I live where people are more sophisticated. Where they ‘improved’ an inefficient system that gave senior citizens something to do with an efficient one that does not need any people at all apparently.
    If you become burdened with a mail-in voting system here’s what I suggest.
    Fill out your ballot and as you mail it on election day pretend the mailbox is a real poll. Mail it on election day only. Never mail it in before unless you know you will be traveling on election day. It’s best to use a mailbox outside your local post office even if it’s a bit further away.
    These suggestions will preserve the fiction of actually voting.
    And you’ll be voting doggie style.

  973. turkle December 10, 2011 at 3:09 pm #

    Blow it out your a$$, you sad chump. No one cares.

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  974. turkle December 10, 2011 at 3:18 pm #

    Vlad, the great moralizer, hates the Jews and the blacks, but he knows exactly how you should live your life. He’ll call you a hater of the white race, and say that hate is wrong, and then he’ll turn around and tell you about his Nazi White Nationalism. Amazing the kind of slimy toads you find on the internet. I don’t meet these people in real life, so in some ways it is like a nice little trip to the Crazy People Zoo.

  975. turkle December 10, 2011 at 3:31 pm #

    Then why don’t you put on a Punisher uniform and go dispense some justice in the ghetto, Vlad, if you’re so gosh darned worked up about the White Rape Holocaust? Don’t you have the courage of your convictions? Or do you just talk big on the internet because you’re a slimy coward who wouldn’t say any of this crap in mixed company, much less do anything about it?

  976. lbendet December 10, 2011 at 3:32 pm #

    What’s even weirder is that he is religious and worships a Jewish guy who was once alive.
    Ah, but isn’t life full of cognitive dissonance.

  977. turkle December 10, 2011 at 3:34 pm #

    The story may be true, anti soak is a useless git.

  978. MissusQuiche December 10, 2011 at 4:12 pm #

    Two immigrant related articles from the BBC:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16097158
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16040476

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  979. DeeJones December 10, 2011 at 4:38 pm #

    P2C: You know, you remind me of John Cleese in the Argument sketch. You just disagree with the other person. No real arguments.
    And Alexandria, yes G.B. will be getting your oil & LNG from Russia, that is until someday you piss ’em off, or for whatever reason they decide they want you to bend over the barrel, then you will pay & pay for that oil & gas, but guess what, you will have no other choice because you squandered your own N.S. resources.
    Have fun sailing about the world, just avoid those Dragon seas, & the Pirates. No Johnny Depps awaiting to ravish you there, sorry. But they will ravish you. Just won’t look (or smell) like Johnny Depp….
    :/

  980. Bustin J December 10, 2011 at 5:07 pm #

    Oldy69 said, “The problem lies in how will you change the mind brain ? what new circuits will you put in it, and who will change who’s brain to perform this new experiment ?”
    Now you’re making sense boy. I like how you respond positively to a good beating. Its a fact if you practice logic you’ll see the world more rationally. Toss out the nonsense and common sense improves. Every day our thoughts reinforce neural networks. Behaviors influence epigenetic markers in the histone packing of cellular DNA.
    I see two ways you can go in these terms, of personal mental development. Up, or down. You can reinforce the networks that diminish common sense, engage in behaviors which negatively influence cellular signaling. Our minds are active, not passive.
    “The subjectivity I talk about is the subjectivity of the constant, invariant design of the Man Brain as an Observer, as an Interactor, as the only Interactor we know and have reference to. In this sense all is subjectivity, we are only subjectivity. ”
    I understand your view, and your argument. You are in essence saying that, because there is no way to observe the mind-state no such a priori state exists. You’re free to believe this post-structuralist bullshit and I’m free to deny it. I think I have a stronger position.
    The brain is a piece of meat made of up specialized cellular components. Your picturesque metaphor of jamming stuff in the brain is crude. Here’s my belief: The brain is like muscle tissue in that it responds to stress, and is actively destroyed, shifted, and created. You put shit logic in it, you mess up its ability to discern reality. Your brain is chock full of shit logic as far as I can tell. The segregation of religious thinking from sensual thinking localizes some amount of trauma and allows these folks to continue stumbling around in the darkness. But your approach and post-structuralism in general pollutes the physical realm and prevents clarity of thought. Your immoderate spewing of illogical nonsense is not beat poetry, it is the reflexive purging and vomitus of a disordered brain suffering toxic shock.
    Some bedrock assumptions are necessary to process thinking properly. To disavow those because of essential circularity in proof is missing the point of essential a priori assumptions vis a vis reality, and opens the door for “subjectivity” to flood the mind with disorder.
    Everything about the body and mind imply the conservation of energy and information inherent in life. Take sight, for example. A good sight reflex delineates, defines, demarcates, allows distinction. The brain is the same way. A good brain slices and dices- look at those tomatoes! What people say comes in the ear as waves, converted to chemical and then electrical signals, is stimulated across the network. Information is abstract but physical reality is concrete. The problem lies in the interpretation.
    Just because there are multiple degrees of accuracy among a population in perception doesn’t make all those subjective views equally accurate. In fact, I think the classical view is correct: there is one ultimate reality, and you are either correct about it or not. If the subject is trite and of no consequence, like the belief in the aesthetics of a blue sky, it makes little difference. If the belief is seriously off the mark, then there is trouble.
    We are like the primitive navigator. If our beliefs are off course by 0.01% then over short time frames the consequence is relatively small; we travel 10 feet and are 99.99% within range of where we think we are. If we travel 1000 miles with the same error we are 10 miles away from where we think we are.
    Your beliefs are off by 90-99%. You didn’t start where you thought you were, you don’t know where you’re going, and where you’ll end up is anyones guess but certainly nowhere near the truth (as if you believe in such things). But do go ahead believing in the usefulness and veracity of your post-structuralist dogma.
    Here is the danger. If we don’t know what our error is, we have no way of being confident where we are in the world of ideas. Without logic people are perfectly capable of believing bullshit when having the conviction of believing they are in possession of its opposite. They believe in something when there is in fact nothing; but to the brain there is a response to it as if there is something. This is schizophrenic.

  981. anti soak December 10, 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    Note that they dont mention their,uh, problems!
    2 million Muslims, huge Immigration, UK in a depression and as JHK point out years ago..
    Suburbanization and NS Oil going going [gone?].
    Someone who returned from London said there he had
    Half the life for twice the price!!!!!

  982. anti soak December 10, 2011 at 5:27 pm #

    when in clip does terrier appear?

  983. ozone December 10, 2011 at 5:29 pm #

    Yyyyyyyyyyyep!
    “The heroes” better wake up and smell the depleted uranium.

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  984. ozone December 10, 2011 at 5:35 pm #

    Yep, again!
    Fuck with a fellas’ water and you fuck with his family. (Your basic life or death scenario.) It doesn’t get any more down ‘n’ dirty than that. Those in drought-afflicted areas take heed. Send your water through the man-made channels to L.A.?
    I don’t think so…

  985. ozone December 10, 2011 at 5:39 pm #

    Addendum:
    Pump my aquifer full of unknowable poisons for your gas fu– I mean fracking? (Thank you Prick Cheney for all your fine work in keeping that an “industrial secret”.)
    I don’t think so…

  986. ozone December 10, 2011 at 5:46 pm #

    Okay, here’s the recent skinny.
    http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2011/12/december-8-2011-youre-either-at-table.html
    I suggest we wish each other the very best of luck going forward; we’re gonna need it.
    (Although, here’s hoping the financing and jingoistic bullshittery behind all the grandiose plans for world dominion falls through at the same time.)

  987. k-dog December 10, 2011 at 6:00 pm #

    That first link is a hoot. Art imitating life for sure. He pretends that:

    His mother is “one of the highest-ranking officials in the nation and holds great power and influence over the state of Arizona”, his biography states.

    Superb flim-flam and apropos as only good comedic entertainment can be and I don’t watch wrestling.
    That second article suggests that going after employers might be a more humane policy.

  988. Vlad Krandz December 10, 2011 at 6:01 pm #

    There you go again, barking and growling on cue. Why don’t you grow a brain to put into that dog skull of your’s.

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  989. Vlad Krandz December 10, 2011 at 6:02 pm #

    You didn’t watch it! That hurts me. Don’t you want to see Turkle?

  990. San Jose Mom 51 December 10, 2011 at 6:18 pm #

    Rhetorically speaking, It’s more likely that California would split in two than leaving the union.
    Norcal and Socal are culturally very different from my perspective. As a Norcal woman, I look down my nose at shallow, hedonistic, “looks are everything” in L.A. Stupid laws make it so we send our water down there to be wasted on swimming pools, lawns and growing silly crops in a desert. From an architectural vantage, LA is a special circle of hell surrounded by 20-lane highways. If ever you want to punish yourself, be sure to spend time at LAX. If there is truly an evil architural meme, then Satan designed LAX.
    Northern California has more Nobel Laureates than any other region of the country–Stanford, UC Berkeley, Lawrence Livermore Labs.
    Even our Mexican gangs are divided by a line in the middle of the state. Nortenos and Suranos.
    Also, they get an unfair share of the budget. After the Northridge earthquake, they quickly fixed roads and bridges in Socal. But after the 1989 Loma Prieta quake it took ten years just to approve funding for a new span of the Oakland Bay Bridge. They’re still working on building it….maybe it will be done this decade? (Of course we insisted that the new bridge be artfully designed–which delayed the process.
    SJmom

  991. 8man December 10, 2011 at 6:27 pm #

    Hey baby, looks ARE everything… (at least the imagination of what looks suggest, then of course it is always a letdown) in fact, all our life we only look, look at things, look at our own thoughts… QUO VADIS, BABY ?
    AN APE

  992. turkle December 10, 2011 at 6:33 pm #

    What’s wrong with dogs? They are generally good-natured, loyal, obedient, and friendly. “Man’s Best Friend” doncha know. I just think you don’t like being called out for what you are.
    What animal do you think we should assign to you, Vladdie?

  993. 8man December 10, 2011 at 6:47 pm #

    No, the correct criticism of my theory is simply that I am using logic, language and thought to describe and discover a new parallel universe: as if our universe has an “emergency exit” towards another one, exactly through logic. That is circular: I use logic to try to get out of this universe, but the new universe appears as a subset of this one always by its logical relationship to this one (change the processor and you get a new world). But a new parallel universe would be a closed one with no logical connection to this one or any other, but the abstraction levels get too far out, and I have difficulty following…and each universe is a logical Information Relationship akin to mathematical entities, but as such free from being confined bynumbers, spaceor time or matter,but real…
    It is not that you can’t observe the mind, it is useless to observe it, since you will observe it with the mind anyways, you are simply always observing the same thing, the mind – logic – language has already established once and for all how the universe is from the outset.
    Change the mind, see what happens. But I am wrong and I am a 21st century schizoid man.
    Hey San Jose Mommy, are you hot ? talk to me please, pretty please, I don’t always want to talk to Busty (and he has so much fun, I never have any fun, what a ripoff, I am a miserable loser, but I got my puny parallel universes to hope for (just like religion, go figure)).
    Hey Busty did you build those trillions of 1966 oldsmobile 98s ?
    THE EIGHTH MAN

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  994. tegmark December 10, 2011 at 6:55 pm #

    Check out:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177509
    Some corrections so when you copy and paste it for your thesis it will be correct and show mommy, then we can go outside and play and run around in the backyard with our toy cars and the oldsmobile 98s, oh what fun while mommy cooks, that is comforting to know…
    But a new parallel universe would be a closed one with no logical connection to this one or any other, but the abstraction levels get too far out, and I have difficulty following…and each universe is a logical Information Relationship akin to mathematical entities, but as such free from being confined by numbers, space or time or matter, but real…

  995. turkle December 10, 2011 at 7:02 pm #

    You ever get to thinking that maybe the common denominator among all the people who dislike you in life and on the internet is….you? It isn’t that they are liberals or barking dogs or race traitors. They just think you’re a jerk, because, you know, you are one. You blame all your problems on everyone else, but how about some self-reflection. Maybe you’ll have a moment of clarity about that sometime and seek to change yourself instead of blaming everyone else for your pathetic, sad life. Here’s to hoping!

  996. k-dog December 10, 2011 at 7:03 pm #

    Nothing like an hours worth of reading there Ozone.
    After eating and digesting most of the EU salad I came to this:

    A number of years ago, a story went around that sprouts were being transported from across Britain to an East Anglian airport, from where they were sent to Poland for washing and packaging before being air-freighted back again for sale in supermarkets located but a few miles from where they were grown.

    Aliens don’t visit earth because we have no leaders to take them to.

  997. turkle December 10, 2011 at 7:04 pm #

    The name of your site should more properly be ilovenonsense.com.

  998. turkle December 10, 2011 at 7:07 pm #

    ” I am a 21st century schizoid man.”
    “I am a miserable loser.”
    Well, your view of objective reality is all wrong, but at least you know the truth about yourself.

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  999. anti soak December 10, 2011 at 7:29 pm #

    ‘What’s wrong with dogs?
    Pitbulls, thats what!
    GO TO YOUTUBE FOR [500] PITBULL ATTACKS!

  1000. Vlad Krandz December 10, 2011 at 8:02 pm #

    Thanks – I’ll get that book since I have little math and less greek. But I have the feeling: like Merlin, I’ve lived my life in reverse. My end was in my begining.

  1001. Vlad Krandz December 10, 2011 at 8:08 pm #

    Two more categories: liberal coastal and very conservative inland Cali – Reagan Country. This may not hold quite quite as true in the far northern coast. Likewise, the immigrants can’t be fit into these categories since they are liberal on spending and conservative on things like abortion.

  1002. Vlad Krandz December 10, 2011 at 8:14 pm #

    There’s nothing wrong with them – as social animals subordinate to man. The point is that they’re very programable. This is how you are like them. You respond to cues just like Ramz’s Boston Terrier responds to the clicker.
    A man is supposed to be more than a dog, Turk. But it’s your decison if you want to strengthen your mind or not. Start here: do Whites have Civil Rights or not? Since Whites can’t join the Congressional Black Caucaus (it’s been tried) do they have the right to their own? The answer is obvious to any logical decent person – are you willing to rise to this Truth? Or are you going to start howling as per your conditioning?

  1003. anti soak December 10, 2011 at 9:19 pm #

    Creeping Jihad! This gem is from
    AtlasShrugs.com :
    What is most disturbing about this story, apart from the obvious horror, is that not one news account reported what one witness said the shooter was screaming: “allahu akbar.” Not one news account. The media is the enemy.
    One of the witnesses states that the shooter was repeatedly shouting “allahu akbar” at minute 2:42. This video is on the bottom right of the LA Times new story, but they don’t mention it in their coverage — neither does Reuters, CBS news, The Hollywood Reporter, KFAI, or any of the other news reports. I expect that this video will be removed or edited.
    Hollywood shootout: Gunman calmly targeted drivers, pedestrians LA Times blog ……………..

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  1004. anti soak December 10, 2011 at 9:23 pm #

    At some point earlier this year did I get you to promise to not respond to Asoka?

  1005. charliefoxtrot December 10, 2011 at 9:38 pm #

    i vote lizard…sorry, lizards!

  1006. charliefoxtrot December 10, 2011 at 9:46 pm #

    so calvin and hobbes are looking at a stump that s been left sawed off in a forest…calvin says, ‘the surest proof that there is intelligent life in the universe is that none of them have tried to contact us’…it s been one of my favorites ever since

  1007. rippedthunder December 10, 2011 at 11:00 pm #

    Hey A-S, please leave the dogs out of this CFN mess. I would rather hang with my dogs than most of the a-holes I run across daily. I guess that makes me antisocial, at least as far as people are concerned. I am the leader of the pack at my house. Woof-woof!
    How many times can a man look up, before he can really see the sky?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zY_cM0_6vA&feature=related

  1008. Bustin J December 10, 2011 at 11:54 pm #

    8man, I like it when you’re lucid. When you’re not, you’re not. If such parallel universes exist, why are you staying in this one?
    Alice in Wonderland also illustrated the use of logic in the creation of parallel worlds. The imagination is indeed infinite. The mind is quantum. I accept all of that. But it is like the house of a mysterious neighbor. You don’t know what happens behind closed doors doesn’t mean anything is happening.
    I said, “They believe in something when there is in fact nothing; but to the brain there is a response to it as if there is something. This is schizophrenic. ”
    Schizophrenia and marijuana may combine to urge one to infiltrate military bases with one’s camera, looking for ghosts, as its unlikely that marijuana will do so on its own. Its a good thing the proclivity wasn’t toward alcohol; one could easily imagine being among the 35,000 annual victims of death by automobile…. speaking of which the majority of these deaths are accidental, apparently, because the killing tool was a car. Convenient.

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  1009. rippedthunder December 11, 2011 at 12:03 am #

    Here’s a little video I made of me playing the slide guitar a coupla weeks back!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAobIpnkCNw&feature=related

  1010. rippedthunder December 11, 2011 at 12:05 am #

    I don’t know what I will do when they get rid of the edison bulbs. It won’t sound the same with a CFL!

  1011. anti soak December 11, 2011 at 12:27 am #

    you are an old woman?
    And I didnt bring up dogs, just responded to a question.

  1012. rippedthunder December 11, 2011 at 12:48 am #

    O3 this is for you and vlad you can chew on this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=v9qE-qXI11I

  1013. anti soak December 11, 2011 at 12:54 am #

    I would say Vlads Spirit Animal is a Fox or Lone Wolf.

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  1014. k-dog December 11, 2011 at 12:58 am #

    Another view of the clusterfuck.

  1015. rippedthunder December 11, 2011 at 1:02 am #

    Yea you brought up dogs, pitbulls. Products of their masters wishes through no thought of their own. I know several “pitbulls’ and they are all friendly and playful dogs. It is only the hand of man which turns a dog into a beast. Dogs are a social animal and if treated with kindness they will reciprocate accordingly.

  1016. k-dog December 11, 2011 at 1:17 am #

    Dogs are a social animal and if treated with kindness they will reciprocate accordingly.
    I agree !!!!

  1017. charliefoxtrot December 11, 2011 at 8:14 am #

    dogs are also the main reason we humans were able to take over the world…wolves apparently self-selected into dogs over the course of one human lifetime, becoming part of our families…they gave us security, vastly improved hunting capabilities, and were key (as in indispensable) to herding and domesticating sheep, cattle, etc…check out pbs docs, you should be able to find it- fascinating, and eddifying…

  1018. charliefoxtrot December 11, 2011 at 8:24 am #

    turd-polishing sycophant! so, whether “you” are another version of vlad the sad; another nazi apologist; or just trying to stir the pot o’ shit makes no difference: unrightous, dude! i speak on behalf of all right-minded and fair among us when i say, “go piss up a rope, jackass!” and thankyou for having a nice day…

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  1019. charliefoxtrot December 11, 2011 at 8:40 am #

    crystal clear…wish i was viewing it from, say, a fortified mountain-top! thanks, dawg, for the perspective…i for one (no multitudes here!) am looking forward to canus presidentus sanitus! Aaaaaooooooh!

  1020. charliefoxtrot December 11, 2011 at 9:31 am #

    Ah Ha! Occupy Wal-Mart! tell all your friends: go to wal-mart as often as possible, push a cart around, fill it up, mix things up where they shouldn t be; push said cart full of cheap crap to the check-out, and say, ‘you know, i don t really want this stuff, and can t hardly afford it’…enough people do it, and the waltons won t have a (gold-plated) pot to piss in; much like their favorite customers! Wel-come to the 99.000008%, fuckers!

  1021. ozone December 11, 2011 at 10:24 am #

    lol
    More than one way to skin a git-box, eh?
    Hey, whatever works! ;o)
    (I don’t know why you’d bring “that guy” into it, but he’s probably “chewing” some more peyote uttons as we speak.)

  1022. ozone December 11, 2011 at 10:26 am #

    “B”
    “B” is for “buttons”.

  1023. ozone December 11, 2011 at 10:30 am #

    Whatthefucktheshitthefuckizzat,eh?!
    Good one KD; needs no further commentary. I’ll pass that around! Non-believers might have to take a deeper look.

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  1024. ozone December 11, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    Great idea.
    I highly doubt one could be arrested for that, plus it takes employees away from “important work”. It’s all good, and a subversive little addition to the clusterfuck.

  1025. progress2conserve December 11, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    “In a few weeks American troops will be out of Iraq.
    -wsp-
    One or two posters commented that the US would maintain bases, and a residual force of 4,500 or so, US troops. In a logical world, that would be the case.
    No logic to see here, however.
    Every single US troop is coming out by Dec. 31st.
    Every single US base is being turned over to Iraq.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_of_U.S._troops_from_Iraq
    “With the collapse of the discussions about extending the stay of any U.S. troops, on October 21, 2011, Obama announced the full withdrawal of troops from Iraq as scheduled before. The U.S. will retain an embassy in Baghdad and 2 consulates with around 4,000 to 5,000 defense contractors”
    For this, the US spent over a TRILLION dollars and lost over 5000 US lives, if you include “defense contractors.
    Incredible.
    It doesn’t take the mind of a rabid doomster to picture an Iran/Iraq “alliance” forming pretty quickly – led by Shiites. (Those are the crazier ones, right. It was Shiite “students” who originally took the American embassy in Iraq in April 1980 – and got Ronald Reagan elected, right?)
    Where this will lead is anyone’s guess.
    But I’m not hopeful, at this point in time.

  1026. progress2conserve December 11, 2011 at 10:58 am #

    This is only 5 pages of Stratfor intelligence analysis. It addresses US and Israeli concerns, in the context of the total situation in the Middle East. Here’s an excerpt. I hope the link works, for any CFN’er interested. If it doesn’t, you can get it by subscribing (for free) to John Mauldin’s basic newsletter service.
    The Stratfor analysis has a paragraph devoted to the CIA drone that’s (captured/crashed) in Iraq. Their analysis says definitely not “captured,” by deliberate Iranian actions. I tend to agree.
    (And all I said, was wait a week, Dee. hehe!)
    “While the covert intelligence war has been under way for many years, the tempo of events that can readily be identified as part of it has been increasing over the past few months. It is important to note that many of these events are the result of hidden processes begun months or even years previously, so while visible
    events may indeed be increasing, the efforts responsible for many of them began to increase much earlier. What the activities of recent months do tell us is that the covert war between Iran and its enemies will not
    be diminishing anytime soon. If anything, with the current withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq and Iranian nuclear efforts continuing,we likely will see the results of additional covert operations — and evidence of the clandestine activity required to support those operations.”
    http://www.johnmauldin.com/images/uploads/pdf/mwo120811.pdf

  1027. charliefoxtrot December 11, 2011 at 11:14 am #

    according to “the history of the world, part II”, the sunii are the descendants of muhamed s son, who he (muhamed) considered worthless and corrupt, and who was dis-inherited; the shii are descendants of muhamed s wife, who inherited his writings, teachings, and mantle of the next prophet…they ve been fighting ever since- go figure

  1028. rippedthunder December 11, 2011 at 11:20 am #

    There are enough hockey sticks in those charts to supply the Beantown Bruhans for an extended season!!!

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  1029. charliefoxtrot December 11, 2011 at 11:25 am #

    i still think (hope!) that nuclear(!!!) war with iran or syria, and financial meltdown are alternately being used as distraction/smokescreen, to divert attention from the next proxy war in and for africa…i remember a little story about specialists being dropped in to “advise and train” in the fight vs al shabab…right after oil was discovered…plus there is gold and uranium in them thar jungles…which by the way is being sold to china…dr livingston, i presume?

  1030. progress2conserve December 11, 2011 at 11:30 am #

    “At some point earlier this year did I get you to promise to not respond to Asoka?”
    -anti,soak-
    Look, antiS, I’m pretty sure I never promised anything to you, directly. Nor do I believe that anonymous internet promises have contractual validity – even if I had made such a promise to you.
    At any rate, asoka. is gone for the time being.
    Enjoy it while it lasts.
    =============================
    And Wage – sorry about that, if you want to blame asoka.’s departure on me. He’s left us before, remember. Who knows why? Maybe he’s working on a new mud hut? Or he’s vounteered to “coyote” a bunch of illegal immigrants – for free, of course.
    Personally, I think Marlin/WSP is correct. Asoka. just enjoys “bustin’ balls – and keeping things stirred up for no particular reason except the joy of obfuscation.
    To that end, if he has computer access, yet is not on CFN – it is likely that he is visiting a Black Nationalist website like this one –
    http://afgen.com/nationalism.html
    and that he is pretending to be a 70 year old mulatto, or something – and orienting his every comment around an effort to convince his “Black Brothers” that White Racism, if it exists, ONLY EXISTS as a positive force in their lives.
    I wish him Godspeed, in this vital new mission.

  1031. charliefoxtrot December 11, 2011 at 11:55 am #

    godspeed, and good riddance…! next question, who pissed of Q? if ’twas me, i roundly and (not so) humbly apologize…i might poke a little fun at him, but all in all, i mostly agree with his stated reasoning for the Q-check: words have meaning, and without attention to detail, communication goes off the rails…or something like that…please, q, if you re “listening”, just take a little dose of humor, and come back to us…you after all set the rate of $1.67 per correction, did you not?

  1032. ozone December 11, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    “dr livingston, i presume?”
    No, Mr. Stanley, but close enough. In future, you may kindly address me as “The Clandestine Clusterfuck”. ;o)

  1033. Buck Stud December 11, 2011 at 12:10 pm #

    Prog,
    Isn’t that the perpetual lament of military excursions, divesting from that which cost lives and money? And it’s also the malignant rationale that metastasizes into perpetual occupation.
    Take a look at this Ron Paul ad; it’s as powerful and honest as they get:
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/10/1044056/-Ron-Pauls-Eye-Opening-Ad-on-our-Wars-This-Ad-Needs-to-go-Viral?via=siderec
    I really hope Ron Paul goes third party.

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  1034. dale December 11, 2011 at 12:13 pm #

    please, q, if you re “listening”, just take a little dose of humor, and come back to us…
    —————————————-
    NO THANKS….do the world a favor and stay silent.

  1035. Buck Stud December 11, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

    Just to illustrate what a irreconcilable clusterfuck American politics has become, take a look at some of the comments in that DKOS Ron Paul link. Almost immediately, the robots come out of their partisan rat holes not to discuss the content of the ad, but to discuss the political implications. But the real dunce award goes to the “He’s anti-choice” poster, as if the abortion debate trumps global military expansion.

  1036. k-dog December 11, 2011 at 12:50 pm #

    Canus Presidentus Sanitus will look good on the presidential podium for press conferences when I get there, thanks.
    I’d offer a fortified mountain top in every pot but the proper way to treat ingestion of campaign promises is to induce vomiting.
    Giving away fortified mountain tops even if there were enough to go around is not a good idea though. Fortified mountain tops deny the social needs of man and any man who lives in a fortified mountain top is not free. They have become a prisoner of themselves.
    Meeting the social needs of man while ensuring personal freedoms are ideas which will guide my administration.
    No fortified mountain top for me. If the country goes down then I go down with the ship. The last thing we need is another president with an Armageddon complex, we have had enough of those.
    I want a rich, sustainable, and verdant world that maximizes human potential, maximizes happiness and minimizes human suffering. I want a complete change in direction from the current administration which has as its primary aims maintenance of the status-quo and self perpetuation.

    There are heroes as-yet-sung-and-unsung in America, people who prefer reality over reality-TV, people with a taste for meaning in life, which often requires the recognition that some things are true and some not so true, and you’re better off with what’s true. What appears to be true is that the old order is finished and a new disposition of things is coming along. The Long Emergency will beat a path straight to the Great Re-set. Sign up for it. Roll up your sleeves. There is so much to do in this country. If you are young, especially, it’s all waiting for you.

    Lets do it.

  1037. charliefoxtrot December 11, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    wow, that is a fantastic platform- i m in! consider the mountain-top hereby open to all, in it s new capacity as obvservatory…we will support the citizenry with sustainable, organic, cruelty-free coffee, non-refined coca, and the kindest of bud- you did say something about the persuit of life, liberty, and happiness…wait, that was in some yellowed, oft ignored founding document…well wouldn t that be something nice to bring back into actual use?! looking forward to the one debate that will be necessary to get everybody s mind right…might i suggest chris hedges for one of your cabinet, alongside jhk and jmg? i would respectfully offer myself as drug czar, responsible for helping people get off the dregs of prescription chemicals and helping all the start-up cannabis and psyllosibin farms that have already been shown to be helpful medicine…

  1038. rippedthunder December 11, 2011 at 1:33 pm #

    Spoken like a true member of the pack, you’ve got my vote. Now roll over and I’ll scratch yer belly. ;o)

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  1039. Widespreadpanic7 December 11, 2011 at 1:47 pm #

    MaoMao:
    Message received. Will proceed accordingly.
    “I went to the casino in Connecticut. I lost”
    –BeanTownBill
    BTBill, have you ever won at those casinos in CT? Has anybody ever won? I’ve never known any ‘winners’, except for a few, well publicized, over the top BIG WINNERS!!!
    A college classmate of mine, Jeff Benedict, wrote a pretty good book about Foxwoods called ‘Without Reservation’. He pretty much come to the same conclusions (about casino gambling) as F Dostoyeski does in his stories based upon his own gambling experiences in Germany and France in the 19th century.
    BTownBill, you also make some interesting points about the possibility of some sort of revolution in the US, which seemed a little curious coming from a real estate guy in Boston. My conclusion is that it would not be possible or desirable. Look how easily the police dealt with the OWSERS. The US has to be the most closely policed place on the planet. A recent program on CNBC documented the rise of the private prison industry in America. There are empty prisons all over the west right now just waiting to be filled. That’ where the nascent ‘revolutionaries’ would end in very short order.
    Godspeed to you. Bill. If you are ever in the Hartford area, don’t hesitate to look up …
    WideSpreadPanic7

  1040. MissusQuiche December 11, 2011 at 2:02 pm #

    Exactly the words I was thinking MisterDog “Art imitating life”

  1041. progress2conserve December 11, 2011 at 2:03 pm #

    “Isn’t that the perpetual lament of military excursions, divesting from that which cost lives and money? And it’s also the malignant rationale that metastasizes into perpetual occupation.”
    -buck stud-
    True enough, Buck. And this hurried withdrawal from Iraq looks very much like Viet Namization of that war. Except in Iraq – the withdrawal is in HyperDrive and on Steroids, compared to Viet Nam.
    We never should have been involved in Viet Nam.
    History shows that abundantly.
    And I’m not arguing that we had any business in Iraq – far from it, in fact.
    But, at least – we had the excuse – that Viet Nam escalated slowly over a decade. And we can argue that the US was used to military success – except for the Confederate Army and the Korean stalemate, we’d never lost a war until Viet Nam.
    And Iraq may prove far more of a linchpin than did Viet Nam. Hell – It’s IMPOSSIBLE to argue that it is not a geopolitical linchpin. Just look at a map, for Chris’sakes!
    “Is their a brain, running the brain trust?”
    IF, IF there is, it’s going to be impossible to argue, any longer, that that “brain” is a Jewish neo-conservative brain, if Iraq/Iran is any indication.*
    *absolutely ZERO anti Semitic intent, here
    But pulling ALL US troops out of Iraq, as we’re doing – has dramatically reduced regional stability – and thus dramatically reduced the security of Israel. And this happened, as far as I can tell, with almost ZERO discussion in Congress or among the American people.
    Hah! I guess that’s the problem with letting ONE president START a war, on flimsy grounds and without a declaration of war – – – the NEXT president can just say, “OOPS,” and end the whole thing – with no recourse to any of the other parties involved.
    We should have kept an air base – after all of this. Keeping a base could NOT POSSIBLY have made things any worse in the ME. Now we’ve got nothing. And we’ve left a big vacuum behind. Power politics in the Middle East will fill that vacuum. You can count on it.
    Got off the subject, Buck Stud.
    I’ll try again, later.

  1042. wagelaborer December 11, 2011 at 2:11 pm #

    I hate to sound like Vlad, but don’t you think that breeding counts?
    My ex-neighbor had awesome border collies, trained to herd sheep (and goats). I lamented my dogs’ inability to herd my goats, and pointed out that my main dog was a German SHEPHERD.
    She said that German Shepherds no longer are bred for herding, mostly for watchdogs.
    I don’t know, but I prefer not to be around pitbulls.

  1043. charliefoxtrot December 11, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    might i respectfully submit that your points about private police and prison systems are precisely why a reset are called for? nobody said it is desirable; the alternative has gotten us where we are today, at the cost so far of our rights and freedoms: if half our prison population are locked up for non-violent, consensual crimes, why do you think you are safe? if our choice is fight back and get locked up, or don t fight back and get locked up, that amounts to damned if ya do, and doomed if ya don t!! in today s economic and socio/political environent, i got nothin’- and nothin’ to lose…

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  1044. wagelaborer December 11, 2011 at 2:17 pm #

    What’s logical about breaking international law and then being able to keep the spoils?
    You act like the US spent a trillion dollars to buy the place. They didn’t.
    They spent a trillion dollars to invade, kill, torture and destroy.
    They deserve nothing.
    But, like I said, the US has a lot of mercenaries there. They’ll probably stay, while the military is used to attack other people.

  1045. progress2conserve December 11, 2011 at 2:22 pm #

    “Is their a brain, running the brain trust?”
    -p2c, being bad-
    “Where is Q when you need him? -CF-
    ———————–
    I wouldn’t worry about the few little jabs you have taken hurting Q’s feelings and making him leave, CF.
    Don’t ask me how I know this, I just know. Although you can look back at some of my early interchanges with Q for confirmation.
    And let’s assume that those who can dish it out,
    can also take it.
    I’ll admit some of Q’s fussiness about grammar/spelling rubs/rubbed me the wrong way – especially when he directed it against new posters, or against “less educated?” posters.
    (Or against me, because I enjoy being perfect in every way, including spelling/grammar. hah!)
    But then I saw Q repeatedly demolish an otherwise intelligent poster (JohnnyRockett?, for those who remember) – and I concluded that Q offered a couple of valuable services to the thread AND a free education to those who availed themselves of it.
    =======================
    I just hope the old boy’s not dead.
    He disappeared like this during October/November of 2010 – and I posted that I hoped he had not died with a leaf blower in his hand.
    And snow shovels are said to be big killers of upper middle aged suburban men. But it seems too early for that.
    And I’ve never heard of anybody keeling over while carving a turkey – – so, I’ve got to figure he’s on a trip, or knocked offline, or something.
    Perhaps Q will reappear, soon.
    Charles the Trotting Fox requests it.

  1046. Widespreadpanic7 December 11, 2011 at 2:25 pm #

    Hey CFT, I don’t feel like I am ‘safe’. Right now a cell exists for every citizen, there are laws on the books that cover just about every conceivable human action, and just walking down the street is enough to arouse police suspicion
    –WSP7

  1047. wagelaborer December 11, 2011 at 2:27 pm #

    I mentioned before that a soldier told me that many troops were being shipped to Africa. Like a good American, he couldn’t remember the name of the country.
    This is why I miss asoka.
    I’m pretty sure that your comment that Shiites and Sunnis have been fighting for centuries is wrong. They only started fighting in Iraq in 2005, 2 years after the invasion, when Death Squad John Negroponte was sent to Iraq to institute what they called the “Salvador Solution”.
    Also, K-Dog is only joking, but there is a candidate that is for peace and a verdant environment, Jill Stein.
    http://www.jillstein.org/
    I think that asoka would have been on that!

  1048. Vlad Krandz December 11, 2011 at 2:30 pm #

    But it doesn’t count in the humans – who are just smart animals according to you?
    Wage, because Political Correctness (our own home grown Communism) has truimphed, the genetic aspect of life is now being cleansed even from dogs and cats. People can’t stand the idea that Pit Bulls are more dangerous than other breeds – it’s dog racism or breedism. And this is despite the fact that they were bred as fighters and in spite of their massive record of attacks on people and other dogs. Their defenders immediately point out that other breeds attack also – as if anyone ever questioned that. But it is a good way to muddle the argument and avoid looking at the NUMBERS. Just like Blacks in relation to other races.
    Genetics is an important part of life. Marxism’s failure to respect it has lead to endless problems and deaths. The Non Genetic Biological Mysticism known as Lysenkoism lead to failure of the wheat crop and famine in the old Marxist Soviet Union.

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  1049. progress2conserve December 11, 2011 at 2:31 pm #

    “What’s logical about breaking international law and then being able to keep the spoils?”
    -wage-
    I don’t disagree, Wage. The US has done tremendous wrong in the Middle East. But I can see where this total withdrawal leads to much worse things, down the road for the Middle East – worse even than what we’ve done, as a Country.
    At least we won’t be there in force, to reap the consequences of our actions and withdrawals, anyway. Not in Iraq, at least.
    ===================================

  1050. Vlad Krandz December 11, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

    Wrong. The Sunnis and Shia are an ancient split in Islam which occured a few decades after his death. The Shia thought that succesion should follow the family line of Mohammad. The Sunni disagreed and pointed to the Koran alone and everyman as his own “Priest”. And they fought.
    This does parallel Catholicism vs Protestantism in Christianity to some degree. And often the “no priests” party end up being the dumber and more fanatical.
    Why does it seem like the conflict is new? Because the Sunni are bigger and the Colonial Powers favored them. So you should be with the underdogs, the Shia as per your mentality. There, I have helped you.

  1051. charliefoxtrot December 11, 2011 at 2:38 pm #

    c’mon, prog, surely you are aware that our withdrawal from iraq was negotiated by, and agreed to, by gwbush? and that ‘to maintain an airbase’ would have been over their objection, therefore a continuation of war?! what does “sovereign” mean, if not self-determination? given the millions of (in their eyes, and how can you blame them?!) murdered citizens, the half-BILLION dollars worth of structural damage, and the pure outrage at having been invaded under WHATEVER the given reasons; we should feel lucky they let us maintain an embassy…let alone a fucking airbase, or a standing army of mercenaries…i mean contractors…i think the first thing we should think of is the golden rule, and how it should be applied, in future…

  1052. Vlad Krandz December 11, 2011 at 2:43 pm #

    Allow me to translate for the group: Whites do not have the right to have their own Caucaus as Blacks and Hispanics do. They have no civil rights per se – not when they conflict with Blacks, Hispanics, or any other group.
    Needless to say, this is extremely serious since ethnic lobbies are the way of the future. The Elite and their picked Judges seem to have less and less interest in individual rights. Group Lobbies are easier to deal with and deliver votes. Whites are therefore in terrible danger unless they get their own lobbies and causcases going.
    I prefer the old way of the Bill of Rights. But few seem interested and we need to protect ouselves in a group if we can’t as individuals.

  1053. Widespreadpanic7 December 11, 2011 at 2:48 pm #

    I think Asoka is here, posting under another handle.
    Think of someone, on the surface politically opposite of Asoka, but with the same detailed knowledge of Hinduism and Buddhism.
    –WSP7

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  1054. charliefoxtrot December 11, 2011 at 2:56 pm #

    i swear i m not trying to sound like the resident expert today, but breeding can only give potential and propensity; working border collies are extensively selected for and trained for herding sheep- actually quite an amazing process, as they learn to herd sheep on hillsides that are inaccessible to humans, responding to hand and voice signals in a complex dance between ‘attack’ and ‘control’…sorry i can t remember the guy s name, but it was in the pbs doc about dogs that i mentioned up-thread…

  1055. Vlad Krandz December 11, 2011 at 2:58 pm #

    I have met nice pit bulls (nice to their owner) and Blacks too. But the record shows they are far more dangerous than German Shepherds/Whites just as we are far more dangerous than Golden Retrievers/East Asians. The small details of the genetic code are important. I mean we 98.5% genetically identical to Chimps. Just talking about “dogs” is a non starter. They vary too much.

  1056. Vlad Krandz December 11, 2011 at 3:05 pm #

    But the genetics do matter as you admit. You’re not going to try and herd sheep with Pit Bulls. And of course, the border collies need to be trained and that involves temperment which does involve the way they were raised. Some will not be suitable.
    Temperment is important too of course. Terriers and Greyhounds have great noses and could theoreticaly do airport work. But they have short attention spans and little desire to please. Thus they are disqualified for any kind of organized work be it airport or seeing eye. They can only do what they were directly bred for ratting and running. Terriers are good at making noise so they can be useful as sentry dogs.
    If you could only be this rational about the breeds of man.

  1057. MADMAX December 11, 2011 at 3:07 pm #

    I suggest “Combo #5”!

  1058. MADMAX December 11, 2011 at 3:11 pm #

    See – democratic socialism does work.

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  1059. MissusQuiche December 11, 2011 at 3:12 pm #

    Labourer, it seems from this link the Shiites and Sunnis have benn fighting since almost the beginning, about 1400 years.
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7280905

  1060. progress2conserve December 11, 2011 at 3:13 pm #

    buck stud –
    To finish up – I like the Ron Paul ad you posted.
    Although – – my personal opinion is that he’s missing the target and the FIRST one we discussed on CFN this week is better.
    Republican primary voters are in favor of “strong national defense,” and I think the second ad you posted – comes too close to saying Paul will cut Defense like a maniac.
    Of course a “strong national defense” is logically incompatible with “cutting government spending,” something else that motivates Republican primary voters.
    To me, spending and “less government” was Paul’s strength among Republicans in the primary – and I hate to see him moving away from that.
    Conspiracy – anyone?? Is Paul deliberately throwing the nomination?
    ===================================
    Regarding abortion supporters dissing Ron Paul.
    Cluster Fucked We are, friend Buck.
    “Life begins at conception.” -ron paul-
    I was not aware Paul was so adamant. To me, “life at conception” is a doctrinaire declaration that flies in the face of common sense.
    And it also makes IUD’s, and standard birth control “immoral,” or whatever – because both of interfere with implantation of an already fertilized egg.
    Wouldn’t matter, should Ron Paul be elected – EXCEPT for his SCOTUS picks.
    ——————————-
    And Jill Stein – and speaking of Cluster F*ckage – I assume she’s strongly pro-immigration, since she’s got such strong support from asoka..
    And because being PRO-immigrant is a Green Party of California thing.
    I might vote for her, anyway, BUT – being pro-immigration and a GREEN?? raises big questions to me that she might – just might? – be a doctrinaire thinker who takes positions that fly in the face of common sense.
    I haven’t looked at Stein’s postions, yet.
    So, I’m just taking a shot in the dark, here.
    ==================
    And the problem with any third party candidate is, THEY CAN NOT WIN – under the present two-party setup. All they can do is propel a “less” desirable candidate into office.
    See – BushI, Clinton, and Perot
    See – BushII, Gore, and Nader
    What we need to do is ABOLISH the two party system and start over.
    Any of you CF’ers think that’ll happen?

  1061. Vlad Krandz December 11, 2011 at 3:14 pm #

    We invaded Canada during the War of 1812 and were badly beaten by combined Canadian and British forces. They then invaded the United States and burned Washington. It ended in a Truce but we obviously got the worst of it. Alot is made about the battle of New Orleans since that was a triumph for us – even though a Treaty had already been signed by the time it was fought. Andrew Jackson insisted on its importance though: he said that the British did not rise to World Dominance by keeping Treaties not in their favor. So he said that if it had been lost, the British would have set up a series of forts on the Western side of the Missisippi River – and that would have been the Western Boundary of America.

  1062. Vlad Krandz December 11, 2011 at 3:16 pm #

    I told Wage this several months ago – she doesn’t want to know so she forgets.

  1063. charliefoxtrot December 11, 2011 at 3:22 pm #

    has it occurred to you that the ‘white caucus’ is the united states senate and house of representatives? and if people like you, who see and maintain a difference that is entirely illusory, that enable the differences in treatment to continue long after they should have been abandoned…if you are so worried by tan skin; perhaps you should work on doing and saying things that will make people more likely to want you around instead of hateful, divisive crap…

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  1064. Vlad Krandz December 11, 2011 at 3:24 pm #

    Why? Because that life can’t stand on its own yet? Neither can the infirm, people in comas, diabetics, and yes Prog – the Elderly.
    When does it become human? When the State says so or when the “mother” says so? Late term abortions have been delivered alive – they throw the Baby into medical waste and let it die. How do you feel about that? Bad? But killing a baby in the birth canal by penetrating its skull and sucking out its brains is fine. Right?
    On 3rd Parties: it will take awhile. Delayed Gratification Retard Americans can’t stand this so they have kept voting for the two corrupt parties for the last 40 years. We could have driven at least one of these dinosaurs into extinction by now if we just been willing to lose a few in the begining. As Cheng Man Ching said, “Invest in loss”. But People don’t want to “waste their vote” – an utterly corrupt concept when you think about it. Voting has become like sports betting. Obviously far to many people are voting who shouldn’t be allowed to.

  1065. Vlad Krandz December 11, 2011 at 3:31 pm #

    The obvious answer but incorrect. They (both Repugs and Demorats) vote their Class interests. Neither has the slightest respect for or interest in the White Race and Western Culture.
    If race is passe, why are the Blacks, Browns, and Yellows so into it? For us not to be is unilateral disarmament – nothing less. You aren’t looking Charlie, you’re emoting based on ideology you picked up in college, reinforced by MSNBC etc. Race is not going away, but rather the exact opposite. It’s more important than ever since we are more multiracial than ever. Colin Powell, a Republican, voted for Obama. OK?

  1066. progress2conserve December 11, 2011 at 3:51 pm #

    “Why? Because that life can’t stand on its own yet? Neither can the infirm, people in comas, diabetics, and yes Prog – the Elderly.
    When does it become human? When the State says so or when the “mother” says so?”
    -vlad-
    So – you’re against euthanasia, too, Vlad.
    What is it with you people. You want as many defective fetuses as possible to be born, to suffer for as long as possible, and then to die in as slow a manner as possible. I don’t understand.
    “When does it become human,” you ask – speaking of a fetus.
    How about – when the State says so, because what the State says makes freakin’ common sense.
    Because declaring, “Life begins at conception,” over and over – is a doctrine that leads to insane positions. (Like, for example, only barrier methods of birth control are to be allowed. Because other methods allow (GASP!!) a fertilized egg to die on purpose.
    Anyway – you’re not a woman. You have no daughters. You’re not even married.
    But – what if your wife or daughter were raped by a mentally defective black man. And the baby had some bad physical defect. (Besides being one-half black, in your world??) You still going to be against abortion in circumstance like this.
    Or are you gonna’ be like all the rich Republicans who use this issue to win elections – knowing full well they’d able to spend their own big bucks to fly to Sweeden with their raped loved one – for a legal, safe abortion.
    ==============================
    And I’ll bet you voted for BushII, mostly because he was PRO-LIFE. Didn’t that work out just peachy for us all.
    =======================
    We may as well agree to disagree on this one.
    You’re not going to change my mind.
    And Godly logic is on my side, here.
    Did you even read the 1971 Southern Baptist position on abortion that I linked? Those were Godly men who wrote that position – requesting laws in favor of abortion for the “mental health” of the mother.
    The SBC and the Republican party, has been taken over by doctrinaire riff-raff since then, men who will do anything to win.
    It is indeed, a large Cluster of F*cking, that we have in these United States.

  1067. Rhino December 11, 2011 at 3:53 pm #

    I heard somewhere (and I don’t know if the numbers are correct) that 87% of Republican votes in your last presidential election were gotten in the states of the old confederacy. If that’s really the case I would say that there are worse problems than a dyfunctional 2 party system. I would say that what there is in the USA is a dysfuntional 2 country system as reflected in a Congress where reps from the two countries regard each other with contempt. You have one country that looks to me like it’s still frustrated by its defeat 150 years ago and you have the other country that asks questions like “what’s the matter with Kansas” probably not realizing (and probably not caring either) that treating people that don’t see things their way as if they’re gap toothed simpletons just widens the divide with potentially calamitous consequences. People really ought to bone up on their history. You talk about common sense: a commodity in really short supply nowadays.

  1068. k-dog December 11, 2011 at 4:03 pm #

    k-dog is only joking? Au contraire, mon frère.
    As long as k-dog can pant I’ll serve the pack.
    Prog pointed out that:
    And the problem with any third party candidate is, THEY CAN NOT WIN
    Even 1,000,000 votes for k-dog could mean more to the cause than just another green party defeat. A new spark is needed to light the torch of liberty and I’ll help light it. A far fetched scenario you may say but if I go viral it happens.
    Chew on this bone. What if k-dog did win. A bolt out of the blue stands a better chance than a third party candidate and that I am.
    It would be a black swan event of great beauty.
    I’m not part of the system and serve no other interest than the good of the pack and pups of future generations for all time.
    I pledge to serve the pack for a single term as I believe the specter of re-election to be a corrupt force in our system.
    To some it’s oh f@#!, turns out the dude is qualified, can do the job and was serious. Oh Sh—–^#. Some be say-in Paraguay here I come.
    I pledge to keep the people first.

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  1069. Vlad Krandz December 11, 2011 at 4:06 pm #

    The crazier ones? No actually. The Taliban and Al Quaeda are radical Sunnis. The Shiite have been largely on the defensive from nuts like these for the last 1500 years.
    The problem for Islam is that the populations are very mixed. Iran is a rare exception. Many of the countries in the Middle East have large contingents of both sects. Even Sunni dominated Saudi Arabia has a very large Shiite population in the south. Thus their countries are weak and the Jewish Project for a New American Century things they can be picked off one by one.

  1070. progress2conserve December 11, 2011 at 4:13 pm #

    It’s good to get perspectives of outsiders on US politics. Where are you, Rhino?
    And you’re on to something – but you’re oversimplifying the North vs South in US presidential politics.
    Take a look at this map – and remember that the Electoral College system makes every state be a winner-take-all contest for president.
    For example – Florida is blue for Obama.
    But there were 7,000,000 votes cast – and Obama “WON?” the entire state. But he only won by a margin of about 200,000 votes.
    Weird, huh.
    http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/results/president/map.html
    And if you think the US looks strange and divided to you foreign observers.
    MAN! You ought to try living here.

  1071. Vlad Krandz December 11, 2011 at 4:16 pm #

    Ah, now you are talking Prog. Life unworthy of Life? But who decides? Convenience worshiping careerist women? Or stern Calvinists? Or your local Eugenics Council? For the first, I have not the slightest respect. The second and third are serious men with values that differ from each other.
    No I don’t believe that terribly defective children should be allowed to live. If the parents choose to and can afford it, Ok. But otherwise – no. To some extent, we get the morality we can afford. And we just can’t afford that kind of indulgence anymore. If we had kept our population up and the immigrants out, and our industry at home – sure, maybe. But we haven’t.
    All of this is different than killing perfectly healthy babies because mommy doesn’t want anyone to know she spread her legs or because mommy doesn’t want to take care of it and is too selfish to give it up for adoption. That you don’t make this distinction is monstrous. You worship women as I have said before. And they are a false god – both cruel and cpricious.

  1072. progress2conserve December 11, 2011 at 4:28 pm #

    “That you don’t make this distinction is monstrous.”
    -vlad-
    Vlad – I’d make the distinction quite easily.
    1.Excellent birth control for all.
    2.Excellent birth control education for all at puberty, at the latest.
    3. Excellent availability of pregnancy tests, morning after pills, and RU-486 for the first 6 weeks of pregnancy.
    4. No abortions after that – except in cases of severe fetal deformities or when the life of the mother is in danger.
    I can call this common sense.
    I’m sure you can oppose it on some grounds.
    The genuine HELL of it is – we’re going to cancel each other’s votes out over this trivia –
    Selling ourselves and our country out to the plutocrats, and the open border Bushes –
    in the process.
    I’m about to have to quit posting for the night.
    I say we call this a draw and fight over something else next week.

  1073. Vlad Krandz December 11, 2011 at 5:05 pm #

    Vlad, how did you become so wise?

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  1074. Vlad Krandz December 11, 2011 at 5:09 pm #

    Well it does make sense that the sooner the baby is killed the less it will suffer I suppose. But most people are irresponsible – inherently so those of low IQ. And the smart ones wont have enough babies between birth control and early abortion. The creator of the Pill regrets his creation and its huge role in the demographic winter that ensued.

  1075. charliefoxtrot December 11, 2011 at 5:12 pm #

    you keep missing the point- our differences are cultural: a self-defeating negative feedback loop…as long as we (earthlings) keep teaching our children that ‘they’ are different from ‘us’, then our societies will remain fractured given geographic and ideological distance, not to mention historical treatment, this is no surprise…what i keep trying to teach you is that IN THE FACE OF DESTRUCTION, WE NEED TO REVERSE THE TRENDS OF RACISM (yes, by all tribes) IN ORDER TO SURVIVE AS A LIFE FORM…and pointing to others who are doing the wrong thing does not justify doing the wrong thing…lead by example you cannot (correctly) deny the science of dna, so the argument that “those people are different” just doesn t hold water…i know none of this is easy to accept or implement, but there comes a time to open our minds and our hearts to the new idea that we are all a family, so we can collectively learn to live together as one, or perish…and i m with prog on the arguments; you re not gonna make a racist outta me- i ve logic on my side why don t you try to get past the knee-jerk reaction to an idea that doesn t fit what you ve been taught, take a nap, and sleep on the ideas you have been presented with…

  1076. rippedthunder December 11, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    So at work we have a support the troops gig going. We have to buy red shirts for $29.99 each and wear them on fridays. I said bring the guys home and we can really support them with mental health care. Everybody thinks I am an asshat.
    http://www.thewe.cc/weplanet/news/depleted_uranium_iraq_afghanistan_balkans.html

  1077. ozone December 11, 2011 at 5:44 pm #

    “We should have kept an air base – after all of this. Keeping a base could NOT POSSIBLY have made things any worse in the ME. Now we’ve got nothing. And we’ve left a big vacuum behind.”
    P2C
    I hope you can see what you’ve posted right down deep to the bottom of the well.
    This is jingoistic and meddling crap of the highest order.
    Let me say unequivocally, this is “the psychology of previous investment” on murderous steroids. If you don’t think there are deadly consequences to this “enlightened self-interest” kind of thinking, you’d better GO to those lands where you so cavalierly would “place bases”, and take a fuckin’ poll of the locals. Come back with skin intact, maybe I’ll listen.
    This shit makes me want to spit. Do you understand what that means [insult-wise] to a Yankee?
    Pot-stirring, indeed.

  1078. anti soak December 11, 2011 at 5:51 pm #

    Pitbulls [or mixed breed pits] account for most
    serious injuries / deaths from dog attacks on humans…………………………..
    BUT PITS ARE 1% OF US DOG POPULATION!!
    Yes genetics count, they have a locking jaw…
    thats genetic.
    There are 500 Pitbull attacks on ONE youtube channel.
    Human Correlary: 3% of US population commits most of the Murders.
    Guess which 3%?

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  1079. ozone December 11, 2011 at 6:17 pm #

    I also must assume you didn’t view the RP ad.
    How would you feel about foreign troops in YOUR town/country? Fine and dandy if they patrol your streets with weapons at the ready, choppers overhead, and the threat of violence, arrest, or death to your family at any random moment?
    You can’t entertain these double standards and expect to be left in peace. Sorry, that’s how it works.

  1080. charliefoxtrot December 11, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    huh…spittin’, under the right- well, wrong- circumstances will piss off a southern boy, too…maybe we re not that different, after all…hear that, vlad?! we CAN all just get along…!

  1081. ozone December 11, 2011 at 6:38 pm #

    …Sorry for that outburst, CFT.
    Now back to our topic of the week, albeit the “European Version”:
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29943.htm

  1082. charliefoxtrot December 11, 2011 at 6:40 pm #

    jeez, that describes how some of us live NOW…those swat teams might as well be foreign, the threat doesn t speak “american”, at least not the language the constitution was written in…on a related note, the one time we don t want lubrication with a reaming…repugnacans are willing to extend payroll tax breaks, contingent upon, you guessed it…keystone xl…i knew that was their position (doggie style, right?), but an announcement on M$M tells me that oblahma will cave…pussy…well, merryhappy chanukwanzaabuddhahindipagamas, everbody! guess the black hills will be just that…if they re not running over with red, first…

  1083. charliefoxtrot December 11, 2011 at 7:23 pm #

    that shit is coming for us…what a FUCK job! banking needs to be outlawed…well, no, but usury does…i wonder what would it take to get some of these issues on a national referendum? for example, making interest payments a little more fair, like tied together? what a mess!

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  1084. wagelaborer December 11, 2011 at 7:30 pm #

    I looked at the link, missus.
    They fought in 680, according to the link. There were no battles listed since then.
    They intermarried in Iraq, and lived in the same neighborhoods. Ethnic cleansing caused great disruption, and 4 million external refugees, so it’s obvious that they were living together in relative peace, until the death squads started.
    As I heard an Iraqi point out, when the US passed out the 52 murder cards at the beginning of the invasion, of the “most wanted” people in Iraq, there were sunnis, shiites and kurds among them.
    This makes the lie of the propaganda that we are fed about the 1600 years of murdering infighting. You can chalk that up to bullshit, along with the weapons of mass destruction that Saddam was planning to use on the US, except for there were none, and so he was unable to use them even when we invaded his country.
    And now even some people who pride themselves on their intelligence are frigging falling for the same damn lies, new country.
    Seriously? They tried to play that song back in the Bush/Cheney days and were slapped down by the CIA and the IAEA.
    Biding their time, they got new faces and started the bullshit again.
    Undeterred by past experience, reality or the simple fact that Iran deserves a nuclear weapon as much as the US, France, Israel or Pakistan does, Americans jump to assert their right to kill millions of people because their lying coporate media and the scum bucket puppet president says so. The same scum bucket president that we must vote for so as not to get a different scum bucket from the other team into office.
    In the meantime, this scumbucket president, who promised a new policy on global warming, has just sabotage another UN conference.
    Wow. I sure am glad that a Republican didn’t get in there. (Dripping with sarcasm here.)

  1085. Buck Stud December 11, 2011 at 8:05 pm #

    Another variation on Clusterfuck.
    ” COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — After nearly 40 years in public education, Patrick Godwin spends his retirement days running a horse farm east of Sacramento, Calif., with his daughter.
    His departure from the workaday world is likely to be long and relatively free of financial concerns, after he retired last July at age 59 with a pension paying $174,308 a year for the rest of his life.”
    And how does Mr Godwin diffuse the focus on these types of lucrative public sector pensions paid for by those in the private sector? Why he blames “Wall Street”:
    “…lack of accountability on Wall Street and exorbitant corporate salaries are a more justified target of the public’s anger.”
    Give me a break. After a lifetime of feeding at the public trough this person invokes the injustice of Wall Street.
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5heFwovl3xiLtqpntLu6LkceftlVg?docId=56a8c19c7dd74eaaa9f76fef1887a020

  1086. progress2conserve December 11, 2011 at 8:26 pm #

    Somebody, could have been buck stud months ago, called either this website, or the internet at large –
    “The virtual pot-bellied stove* at the country store,” – – – or something sorta’ like that.
    So steady ozone, I didn’t mean to get you all riled up about our giving up the Iraq bases.
    “This shit makes me want to spit. Do you understand what that means [insult-wise] to a Yankee?
    Pot-stirring, indeed.” -ozone-
    Ok, maybe I was doing a little pot-stirring of a lovely Sunday evening. I think I’ll probably always think like a grunt – or at least never like a Commander in Chief.
    Korea and Viet Nam were the first wars where the US deliberately gave up ground – only to have to go back and retake it because of “orders from above.” Except instead of Hill 395 in Korea – where only the grunts in the mud were at risk of death – These mistakes (if mistakes they really be) could put entire Continents at risk of death.
    Anyway, ozone – it’s a done deal. Obama and the rest of the fools in charge of PR did it with no public discussion of which I am aware. I’m sure that was a political calculation on the part of everyone involved – left, right, and center.
    It’s history now, as distant in time as the end of WWII – we’ve just got to keep moving forward and dealing with the consequences. I just hope that all works out for us – and for the Iraqis who are just trying to do the same thing.
    —————–
    *And there ain’t no point in you to go a-spittin’ on our pot-bellied stove for no reason, now. Ya’ heah? :0)

  1087. progress2conserve December 11, 2011 at 8:40 pm #

    And maybe I better clarify –
    My understanding is that the BushII negotiated treaty called for the withdrawal now underway – EXCEPT for 4,500 troops to remain in country as advisers to the Iraq forces and what not.
    The Iraq civilian govt. refused to grant these US military forces immunity to local prosecution.
    And Obama quietly let it drop.
    So we’re down to the embassys and the contractors.
    Not a great big difference, when you think about it.
    It’s still just a slightly smaller trip-wire.
    Still more than enough to start WWIII.
    I guess that was the goal of BushII, Obama, and the whole lot of ’em.
    ————–
    Just to have political cover to leave some sort of a trip-wire – ready for whenever anybody feels the need.
    Wow, I’m viewing our PTB masters in a more respectful light. They think of everything.
    (Yeah, and never make mistakes.)

  1088. BeantownBill December 11, 2011 at 9:01 pm #

    Well, Marlon, I have won at Foxwoods plenty of times – that’s what keeps me coming back. But unfortunately, I’ve lost plenty of times as well. I would guess I’ve lost more money than I’ve won over the past 15 years. For a rational guy, that’s pretty irrational, but, hey, I’m addicted to gambling; I get a big rush spitting in fate’s eye when I win, knowing the odds are against me.
    As far as revolution goes: I know we’re at a crossroads – very bad times going down one road and salvation along the other. After analyzing the options we have to get going along the right path, none of them seem feasible in the real world, except revolution. If the people are motivated enough, no revolution can ultimately fail. Sooner or later, the people always win.
    At some point a group will start a movement to change the government, and when things get worse, as they most likely will,the movement will turn into a violent uprising. Like I say, I don’t condone violence, but I can’t think of another way America will straighten itself out.
    My Connecticut travels usually end at Ledyard, but occasionally I go into the city and I pass through Hartford, so…

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  1089. charliefoxtrot December 11, 2011 at 9:04 pm #

    i think you might be right about the trigger, prog…scary, in a way, if you add it to all the sabre rattling about syria, israel and turky about iran, as well as the pakistan/india dust-up that has been bandied about…it occurs to me that the fuckers that be siphoning off all available wealth everywhere have it in their heads that MWIII is unavoidable at this point; and that a few of them can survive, so fuck the rest of us…sure solves the immigration/population problem, albeit messily… the bastards must be nice to have a bunker a mile deep, with all the freeze dried, genetically modified, full o’ pesticide fruit rollups…the bastards hope they live long enough for their kids to find out what they did to the rest of us on the way into the rat-hole

  1090. Vlad Krandz December 11, 2011 at 9:05 pm #

    You missed the point – we are different just as the different breeds of dogs are. The genetic code doesn’t just provide physical information but psychological traits and tendencies as well. After all, the brain is also a physical organ.
    Blacks have more testosterone and a smaller brain than Whites. That makes them more impulsive and emotional – which means far more dangerous just as the traits of the Pit Bull makes them more dangerous than German Shepherds.
    Ever own a retriever? Did you have to teach him to do it – or did that program “come with the computer”? So much nature vs nurture. Now btw, we admit the influence of environment and nurture. Obviously a dog will get better at retrieving with some practice. You people on the other hand, deny genetics all together when it comes to people and sometimes nature as well. You are the fanatics, not us.

  1091. BeantownBill December 11, 2011 at 9:30 pm #

    It doesn’t make sense to me that TPTB want another world war. Yeah, they may have their retreats and bunkers, but who would want to be king of a nuclear-ravaged, dead world?

  1092. BeantownBill December 11, 2011 at 9:35 pm #

    It doesn’t make sense to me that TPTB want another world war. Yeah, they may have their retreats and bunkers, but who would want to be king of a nuclear-ravaged, dead world?
    IMO, all the wars are being carefully managed while the elite quietly take over governments and rob us blind. It’s kind of like a magician’s misdirection – keeping the audience’s attention on the inconsequential left hand, while the right hand is doing the actual trickery.

  1093. progress2conserve December 11, 2011 at 10:05 pm #

    “It’s still just a slightly smaller trip-wire.
    Still more than enough to start WWIII.”
    -p2c-
    Hey Bill,
    I didn’t mean to imply that TPTB really INTEND to start WWIII. I was really trying for the opposite idea – but, apparently, with too much irony or subtlety, or something.
    Step back a couple of generations, as a reference.
    Arch Duke Ferdinand and TPTB in Austria certainly didn’t intend to start WWI. And Ferdinand was, quite likely, opposed to his own assassination.
    But – various PTB in Europe had put some tripwires in place in Austria- old Ferdinand bit the dust – and the first World War began.
    Nobody thought it was a particularly good idea – but they had commitments – once the trip wire was tripped.
    Iraq is in a hot corner of the world. Looks like there will be a US tripwire (umm embassy?) there, at the least. That’s all I’m trying to say, here.

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  1094. San Jose Mom 51 December 11, 2011 at 10:07 pm #

    I’ve seen Beagles in airports. They have amazing noses, and they are friendly and approachable. I love Beagles because we have one. Many years ago he was a puppy wandering around, following his nose with no collar, looking for love. My son said, “Mom, can we keep him for one night?”…that was eight years ago. He’s very in tune with people’s emotions. When anyone is sad or upset, he immediately senses it, and comes over to offer his companionship. He doesn’t have a mean bone in his body.
    SJmom

  1095. charliefoxtrot December 11, 2011 at 10:46 pm #

    i ve known that about the smoke and mirrors my entire adult life , and have tried to talk to various acquaintances about it with little success at “teaching moments”- apparently nobody believes there is really a conspiracy to control…remember i didn t say “they” want to rule over a wasteland; but if i think nukes are unavoidable, why wouldn t they? and why wouldn t they keep the dog and pony show going as long as possible, to keep their heads and their purses, so to speak…i used to think the way for us common folk to regain control of and power over our own lives and home was through democracy…until 2000 and that debacle…hanging chads, indeed…! I knew immediately that it was a test, to see if they could get away with it…it doesn t take a student of civics and history to see that…

  1096. Vlad Krandz December 11, 2011 at 11:25 pm #

    d

  1097. rocco December 11, 2011 at 11:33 pm #

    If you need a book or two to help family, firends or neighbors to understand peak oil and how business runs in the USA. I tell them to read “The Long Emergency” and I just finished,”Deer Hunting with Jesus” wow Joe was a great writer and thinker.

  1098. MissusQuiche December 12, 2011 at 12:55 am #

    Obviously WL your heavily invested emotionally in a certain version of mid east history. Stick with it if it helps you connect all your dots. How did you come up with the ‘1600 years’ figure?

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  1099. nm1t667354 December 12, 2011 at 4:51 am #

    soccer {RKEY},{RKEY},{RKEY},{RKEY},{RKEY} NBA {RKEY},{RKEY},{RKEY}2011-09-10 13:51:05.0Jason Wu Spring/Summer 2012 collectionjason wu current york fashion week1158951Style2@webnews/enpproperty–>
    ,Jason Wu Spring Summer 2012 collection Style chinadaily.com.cn,nike

    A prototype hikes the runway wearing a draft from the Jason Wu Spring/Summer 2012 collection at a fashion show during Mercedes-Benz Fashion Week among New York September nine 2011.[Photo/Agencies]

    28-year-old fashion designer Jason Wu was born amid Taiwan. He designed the one-shoulder pearly robe which U.S. First Lady Michelle Obama wore at the inaugural ball on the night of President Barack Obama’s inauguration.

  1100. 8man December 12, 2011 at 6:05 am #

    Turkey says:
    “” I am a 21st century schizoid man.”
    “I am a miserable loser.”
    Well, your view of objective reality is all wrong, but at least you know the truth about yourself.”
    THE APE answers:
    Funny that you said that: that is exactly what I am trying to do – obtain the most general form of objectivity possible, so objective that it is no longer dependent on any particular design of any mind, brain – processor. But obviously, this is destined to fail from the outset because I am using this particular mind structure (call it the Man Brain MB) with all of its quirk particulars (including the logic, language, culture, subjectivity, dependence on emotion, on pain/pleasure reactions, etc.) to describe, discover, relate, invent the possibility of new minds – “observers” different from the mind “inquiring” MB. A circularity, a limit. The most that can be achieved is the invention, construction, imagination or whatever of a class of minds – processors – observers that have some basics invariants in common with us, namely the identity principle (A is different from B) from which discends the principle of non contradiction, the discernability and elaboration of Information Relationships (through logic, language, etc. even if the logic and language is very loose, even wild), a model of interaction through some reference system analogous to time and space, etc.
    Obviously any slightly different new brain – processor design may be so completely different from ours and from our possibility to decode it, that we cannot relate to it in any possible way, not even logically, it would be in a sense “infinitely different” from us by just changing one bit.
    And of course a new mind – observer implies a completely new and different universe with radically different laws of physics, since the Observer IS the Universe, our denotation of an “external” reality is just a model our Man Brain uses to navigate experiences…

  1101. old69 December 12, 2011 at 6:15 am #

    Some corrections for when you copy and paste it for your thesis :
    The most that can be achieved is the invention, construction, imagination or whatever of a class of minds – processors – observers that have some basic invariants in common with us, namely the identity principle (A is different from B) from which follows the principle of non contradiction, the discernability and elaboration of Information Relationships (through logic, language, etc. even if the logic and language is very loose, even wild), a model of interaction through some reference system analogous to time and space, etc.

  1102. youmouyixia December 12, 2011 at 7:52 am #

      According to local media reports, former Brazilian soccer striker Ronaldo in Brazil’s World Cup 2014 will serve as Chairman of the Organizing Committee.
      Reported that Ronaldo, 35, Brazilian Football Association have accepted the invitation of the main  official news will be announced on Thursday in Rio de Janeiro.  cheap wedding dress
      So far, Teixeira also serves as Brazil’s World Cup organizing committee chairman.
      The news was first used by 26 of Brazil, "World News" reported. Ronaldo was said that he knew nothing about the matter, but that if "the preparatory work for the World Cup to make some contribution, he will be very excited," saying it was his "honor."
      Ronaldo with 15 goals to keep the World Cup scoring record, and his team were in Brazil where the 1994 and 2002, twice won the World Cup. This year he retired from Brazilian club Corinthians, thus ending his career.
      If reports are true, Ronaldo will be following Michel Platini (France 1998) and Franz Beckenbauer (Germany 2006), the World Cup organizing committee as the top players before the first three.
      Teixeira FIFA bribery scandal and suspicion are suffering increasing pressure. FIFA president Sepp Blatter recently said he plans to open may be implicated Teixeira allegedly secret documents.  Beaded Dress
     

  1103. progress2conserve December 12, 2011 at 8:41 am #

    # 1107
    Time for a new post, JHK.

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  1104. ozone December 12, 2011 at 8:53 am #

    Sorry for snarling there.
    Meddling in other peoples’ business by stationing troops on their sovereign patch of soil has always gotten my back up, because it never seems justified and we [mostly] NEVER LEAVE. (I guess we’re beginning to see how much blood and treasure [from all affected] it takes to maintain these “interventions”.)
    In my lifetime, we did see one that was justified. When them godless commie Vietnamese put down the mad dog that was Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge. …And then promptly LEFT.
    Speaking of “those guys”, did you know they repelled an invasion of Chinese troops in 1979? Reportedly, 30,000 soldiers died in that little dust-up. (I heard approx. 100,000 dead on the Chinese side ALONE, but that was from a Vietnamese, so consider the source.)
    Is there a lesson here?
    (Ps. What was that Grenada silliness all about anyway? It stretches credulity that it was all about kidnapped medical students. ‘Course Ronnie Raygun WAS pretty flakey and probably felt the burning need to kick some Cuban ass.)

  1105. DeeJones December 12, 2011 at 9:02 am #

    I think that Vlads Spirit animal is the Chihuahua:
    They yap constantly and are really annoying, but if you put your hand out to pet them, they cringe on the floor and wet themselves.
    Or perhaps just the ass-end of a donkey….
    🙂
    Hi SJmom, I used to live in Nor Cal. If the US ever does break up, Cal will probably split like you say, but the SoCal will end up back as a desert pretty quick with a much smaller pop cause Nor Call will quit shipping all its water there.
    :]

  1106. DeeJones December 12, 2011 at 9:15 am #

    You know SJMOM, having lived in the Whine country the past 10+ years, I really don’t miss Cal all that much, except the Redwood trees. Big Basin, Henry Cowell, Armstrong Woods.
    Well, one thing we do really miss here is Trader Joe’s. They had such a great selection of cheap wines from Europe. God, if they would open one in Escazu….
    But I really DO love the coffee here, its all grown just a few kilometers from where I live.
    Hava-nice-day now, ya hear?
    🙂

  1107. DeeJones December 12, 2011 at 4:35 pm #

    I really just had to add this regarding the CIA drone lost to Iran last week:
    “Executive Branch – POLITICS
    Default Setting for Auto Landing Leads Theories on Drone Capture”
    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/12/default-setting-for-auto-landing-leads-theories-on-drone-failure/
    So it wasn’t a fake (or why consider sending in Special Forces to retake it).
    Ha! 🙂

  1108. maomaomao1 December 15, 2011 at 3:19 am #

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  1109. maomaomao1 December 15, 2011 at 3:27 am #
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  1114. niefsaf3xe December 15, 2011 at 9:42 pm #

    transferred to spare, after slowly learning

    School basis

    PS: Photoshop skills 167 –

    Daquan

    classic Photoshop skills, if you are the level of the initial stage, familiar with the article and master, immediately advanced to intermediate level. Oh definitely not advertising. –

    common techniques Daquan classic Photoshop skills, if you are the level of the initial stage, familiar with the article and master, immediately advanced to intermediate level. Oh definitely not advertising. –

    1. quickly open the file –

    Double-click the Photoshop background blank (the default is gray display area) to open the selected file browser window. –

    2. free to change the canvas color –

    Select the Paint Bucket tool and Shift-click the edge of the canvas, you can set the canvas background color for the currently selected foreground color. If you want to revert to the default color, set the foreground color to 25% gray (R192, G192, B192) Shift-Click again to the edge of the canvas. –

    3. selection tool shortcut keys –

    by pressing the shortcut keys to quickly select a tool in the toolbox, each tool shortcut keys are the letters: –

    box-M mobile-L-V lasso magic wand-W-

    gun pencil-J Brush-B-N rubber stamp-S-

    history eraser brush-Y-E-R fuzzy Dodge-O-

    pen-P text-T-U metric gradient-G-

    bucket straw-I Hand-K-H scaling-Z-

    default foreground and background colors-D switch foreground and background color-X-

    edit mode switching the display mode switch-Q-F-

    In addition, if we hold down the Alt key and then click the Display icon in the tool, or hold down the Shift key and repeatedly press the letter shortcut keys you can cycle through the hidden tools. –

    4. to obtain accurate cursor –

    press the Caps Lock key to make the brush and the magnetic tool for precise crosshair cursor appears, press again to return to the status quo. –

    5. show / hide the control panel –

    press the Tab key to switch the control panel display or hide all (including kit), if you press Shift + Tab is the toolbox is not affected, only the control panel display or hide the other. –

    6. Rapid Restore Defaults –

    some friends are not good at Photoshop to adjust the twists and turns really satisfied with the results and found that the best is still the original default, which under the most perplexing, the original should not regret it! How to restore to the default value it? Try to gently press the tool icon on the options bar, then from the context menu, select –

    7. freedom to control the size –

    zoom tool shortcuts for the and to display full-screen view of the case can be! If you want to use the zoom tool automatically adjust according to picture the size of the window, the properties in the zoom tool bar, click –

    8. using non-Hand Tool (hand tool),Canada Goose Men’s Chilliwack Bomber, hold down the space key can be converted into hand tools, you can move the visible range of the image window. In the hand tool can double-click on the image to display the most appropriate window size, double-click on the zoom tool can display images in a 1:1 ratio. –

    9. in the use Erase Tool (Eraser tool), hold down the Alt key to switch to the eraser function to specify the steps to restore the state record. –

    10. using Smudge Tool (finger tool), hold down the Alt key can be simply applied to become coated with the foreground color. –

    11. To move use the Type Mask Tool (Type Mask tool) to play the font selection, it can be switched into Quick Mask mode (using the shortcut keys Q switch), then the move is completed as long as the switch again back to the standard model can be. –

    12. Hold down the Alt key, use the Rubber Stamp Tool (rubber stamp tool) to open the image at any window click of the mouse within the window set in the sampling location, but will not change the role of the window. –

    13. using Move Tool (move tool), you can press the arrow keys on the keyboard directly to the distance of 1 pixel on the moving image layer, if the first hold down the Shift key and press the arrow keys to places each 10 pixel distance from the moving image. Press the Alt key while dragging the selection will move the selection of the copy. –

    14. using magnetic lasso tool or the magnetic pen tool, click –

    15. measurement tool in the measurement of distance is very convenient (especially in the diagonal), you can also use it to measure angles (like a protractor). Visual premise in the information panel, select the measure tool click and drag a straight line, hold down the Alt key node from the first line again and again out on the second line, so the angle between two lines and line length are displayed on the information panel. Measurement tool drag to move with the measuring line (you can also just move the measuring lines of a single node), the measurement line outside onto the canvas you can delete it. –

    16. using drawing tools such as (such as the brush, the pen, etc.), hold down the Shift key and click the mouse, can be a straight line connecting the two click points. –

    17. Hold down the Alt key to select the color with the Eyedropper tool to define the current background color. By combining the color sampler tool (Shift + I) and the information panel to monitor the current picture of the color change. Color values ??are displayed before and after the change in the information panel next to the sampling point number. Through the information panel on the pop-up menu to define the color pattern of sampling points. To add a new sampling point on the canvas with only the color sampler tool and then point where casual look, you can hold down the Alt key and click to remove the sampling point. But a map can be placed up to four colors on the sampling point. When a dialog box in Photoshop (example: Levels command, the curve command, etc.) pops up, to add a new sampling point must hold down the Shift key and then click, hold down Alt + Shift click on a sampling point can be subtracted. –

    18. Cutting tool we all must be used, in which case you may have encountered; adjust the cut in your grip, and the crop box and relatively close to the border of the image when the cut automatically attached to the frame the edge of the image, so that you can not crop the image accurate. But as long as the adjustment of cutting the time frame to take over –

    replication techniques –

    19. Hold down Ctrl + Alt key to drag the mouse to copy the contents of the current layer or selection. –

    20. If you have recently copied a picture exists in the clipboard, Photoshop in the new file (Ctrl + N) when the picture will be the size of the clipboard as a new map of the default size. Use of this feature to skip the last set, in the open while holding down the Alt key (Ctrl + Alt + N). –

    21. If you create a new work, the need has been opened with a picture have the same size, resolution, file formats. Select

    22. in the use of Free Transform tool (Ctrl + T), hold down the Alt key (Ctrl + Alt + T) to first copy the original layer (in the current selection) after the copy layer to transform; Ctrl + Shift + T to repeat the last transformation, Ctrl + Alt + Shift + T to copy the original image and then perform transformations. –

    23. use the (cut) paste the new layer command will still put their original place, but through the copy (cut) and then paste it will paste the picture (or selection) of the center. –

    24. do not want to directly copy the image name dialog box appears, you can hold down the Alt key first, then run the –

    25. Photoshop the clipboard is useful, but you also want to use the Windows system clipboard directly, directly from the screen image on the interception. Well, press Ctrl + K, in the pop-up panel will be –

    26. in Photoshop to achieve a regular copy –

    when doing the layout of certain elements that we will always have regularly placed to seek a form of beauty, in Photoshop shortcut through a combination of four can easily reach. –

    (1) circle you want to copy the selected object; –

    (2) Press Ctrl + J to produce a floating Layer; –

    (3) by rotation and move to the appropriate location to confirm; –

    (4) can now hold down the Ctrl + Alt + Shift after continuous press (Just hold down the Ctrl + Shift is just a regular mobile) –

    27. When we choose to copy the file object, use the Edit menu Copy command. You may not feel a replication trouble, but multiple copies, click once on a very inconvenient. Then you can first select the object with the Selection tool, then click the Move tool, then hold down the When the cursor changes to a black and white overlap with the two headed arrow, drag the mouse to the desired location. To copy many times, just repeat the line relaxation of the mouse. –

    28. you can use the Marquee tool or the lasso tool, drag the selection from one document to another on. –

    29. for the current history state or snapshot of a copy document can be: –

    (1) Click on

    (2) From the History panel menu, select a new document; –

    (3) Drag the current state (or snapshot) to

    (4) Right-click on the desired state (or snapshot) from the pop-up menu, select a new document the history of the state in the history of the current state of a picture onto another picture window can change the purpose of image content. Alt-click on any history state (in addition to the current, the most recent state) can copy it. And after copying the state becomes the current (most recent) state. Alt-drag action steps you can copy it to another action. –

    selection technique –

    30. the selected area or layer drag from one document to another, hold down the Shift key to make it centered on the purpose of the document. If the source document and the purpose of the document’s size (size) the same, the dragged element will be placed in the same location where the source document (rather than on the center of the canvas). If the purpose of the document contains the constituency, the dragged element will be placed in the center of the constituency. –

    31. in the action palette, by clicking the triangle button, select from the menu to load the action into PhotoshopGoodiesActions directory, under which a button, specifications, orders, image effects, text effects, textures, six frame action set contains a lot of useful stuff yo! In addition, the directory also has a ACTIONS.PDF file that can be used to open Adobe Acrobat software, which detailed the use of these actions and produce results. –

    32. click on the toolbar of the brush type tool, the properties shown in the following section, click the small triangle brush right of the label, the pop-up menu, then click the small arrow to choose Photoshop Brushes directory to a folder, select the *. abr. There are so many lovely old things. –

    33. draw a nice marker, would like to reuse in the works? Easy to handle, use the Lasso tool selected it in the Brushes pop-up menu select

    34. If you want to choose between two options for the regional part of any of the existing next to a selected area, hold down the Shift and Alt keys to drag, draw the second selection area (cross appears next to the mouse a multiplication sign, said the coincidence of the region will be retained). –

    35. delete the selected area in square or round, the first increase in any of a selected area, and within the selected area, press the Alt key to drag a rectangular or elliptical mask tool. Then release the Alt key, hold down the Shift key, drag to your satisfaction. Then release the mouse button first and then release the Shift key. –

    36. from the center outward to delete a selected area, a choice in any area, press the Alt key and drag a rectangle or elliptical mask tool, and then release the Alt key and then hold down the Alt key again, and finally release mouse button and then release the Alt key. –

    37. in Quick Mask mode, switch to quickly select a mask regional or regional options, first hold down the Alt key will move the cursor to Quick Mask mode, click the icon on it. –

    38. use the marquee tool, hold down the Shift key to draw a square and the perfect circle of constituencies; hold down the Alt key constituencies from the starting point for the center outlined. –

    39. use the –

    40. constituencies using the lasso tool to outline the time you can press the Alt key and polygonal lasso tool lasso tool to switch between. Lays hold down the spacebar when the constituency can be moved are outlined in the constituency. –

    1. Duplicate the layer blend mode to Screen,
    2. Coated 2 eyes mask reverse clashes
    3. stamp (alt + ctrl + shift + E)
    4 . channel mixture, select the color, red +54, Green +54, Blue +32
    6. mixed mode – are stacked
    7. adjustment of the seal layer, Image – Adjustments – Shadow / Highlight – Shadow: 50,50,144 high light: 0,50,30 middle tone: 20,0 0.01,0.01
    8. once again stamped
    9. wipe the right cheek with the seal of the sun
    10. with the Dodge tool – the range of high light intensity of 50%, struck a reflective eye, just rub the eye black,
    11. once again stamped Filter – Other – High contrast, the parameter 80
    12 . change the layer mode to high-contrast soft, enhance contrast,
    13. use your favorite method of sharpening
    14. for a long time less saturated hue of red, or other fine-tuning to try

    1, select the material map.
    2, create a new canvas, filled with black background and character material onto the canvas, use the eraser tool to erase parts of the face outside.
    3, create a new transparent canvas (20 x 20px), the foreground color to white, use a 1px pencil tool and under the left side of the canvas stroke.
    4, Edit>> Transform>> distortion, press the map to adjust the grid-layer nodes.
    5, the layer opacity to 20%. Double-click the layer to open layer style window grid, select the outer glow, blending mode to
    6, create a new layer, use Pen tool to select a number of boxes along the grid and fill it with black.
    7, hold down the Ctrl key and click on the layer above the black box to obtain selection, choose the portrait layer, cut and paste (paste layer named after the After its move to reduce a little the following position.
    8, select the debris layer, hold down the Alt key while clicking the right keyboard arrow key (point 9), to be similar to the three-dimensional effect. Layers panel appear at this time to see debris layer 10 will in addition to other debris outside the top layer of the merger and the merged layer Double side layer, open the Layer Style window select Gradient Overlay, the Opacity to 80%, angle of 180, use # 000000 to # D58761 gradient, other attributes take default values.
    9, use the brush tool to add some texture to the side effects.
    10, repeat steps 6 – Step 9, obtain the following results.
    11, will merge all the layers of the black box, double-click to open the Layer Style window, select Bevel and Emboss, the style of . High-light mode to
    shadow mode
    12, below the debris layer to create a new layer, use brush to add smoke effects smoke. Select the debris layer, use soft black brush painted canvas on the right corner to get the following fade effect.
    13, the top layer in the figure to create a new layer, use the pen tool again, a number of randomly selected box, and fill it with black. The layer blending mode set to

    14, the same operation and step 13, but replaced by a white fill color.
    15, select the character layer, Filter>> Blur>> Surface Blur, radius of 5px, threshold 15. Create adjustment layer above all layers, layer>> Create Adjustment Layer>> Levels, property to 10,1.25,244.
    16, in order to get the feeling of cool, you can add a barcode tattoo on his arm.

    1. new gray coat, with a curve to adjust brightness, 152,124
    2. cutout eyes and mouth, to be stressed,
    3. reduce the overall saturation, saturation -56
    4 colors with the color overlay to the overall tendency,
    5. superposition of two layers of hidden hue and color, open the Channels palette, copy the R channel,
    6. a new layer paste, and adjust the transparency with a color filter pattern

    1. Duplicate Layer, New Adjustment Layer channel mix, gray channel, red +64%, Green 2%, 10% blue, monochrome
    2. New solid mixed layer, select 575 046 colors, blend mode to Color,
    3. New Curves Adjustment Layer, ? – input 68, output 32, ? – input 114, output 68, ? – input 208, output 197,
    4. a new one solid layer, select 443B25 color, blend mode to color,Canada Goose Kensington Parka, press Alt-click mask,
    5.Ctrl + D to restore the default background color, Ctrl + Delete to fill the black mask the background color, 6 to change the picture, the transition to high light and dark parts of the tone, to enrich the color, brush out the need to insert the mask
    some color, 300 pixels, 10% opacity, flow, 100% 7 the arrangement and design of the font

    8. In order to make figures and screen colors have echoed to the character’s point of lip gloss on the lips, create a new layer, select the Linear Dodge blending modes, add 90753D color, choose the brush on lip gloss, powder point pen, pixel 39,
    9. zoom in lip gloss reflective parts of the draw, observe, constant adjustment, the overall picture look good after lip gloss, this time a picture has been echoed, color become rich, not overwhelming, just bring out a product,
    10. If the product directly with the body in the model, and people tune in to lust after, or with the mask color to the product directly to the plug out of the product can

    1. open the file, copy a layer copy of the
    2. Select the duplicate layer by free transform to change the shortcut key ctrl + t to make the characters more slender face shape
    3. by Merge Layers (ctrl + e), the use of cutting tools to upload images from a new composition, cut off the extra part,
    4. Image – Adjustments – Color: Red – 70, -20, -20, -50. yellow – 40, -20, -30, -80, white -0,0,0, -50. halftones -0, -5, -5, -5
    5. according to curve (ctrl + m) adjust overall color, RGB full-channel – output 214, input 174 and blue channel – output 131, input 124,
    6. Image – Adjustments – Color Balance (ctrl + b), the shadow -10,0, +15. High light – 10,0, +2.
    7. Stamp tool with the skin around the mouth cover evenly,
    8. With a pen to circle dark bags under the eyes and face, the emergence 60, curve to brighten the constituency Dodge reduce bags under the eyes and facial muscles are not relaxed expression,
    9. continued emergence 60 constituencies, bright tone curve to make the face full point, output 146, input 113.
    10. part of the high-light ring out, feathering 60

    11. curve brighter, so that the face full point, output 138, input 118.
    12. eyebrows, the eyebrows and top of the circle with the skin with a lasso tool, the emergence 5, copy a layer, the Duplicate the layer and move down in order to achieve eyebrow shaping effect, stamp eyebrows, this must be very careful
    13. began to adjust your eyes, choose the part of the eye ring out, copy the layer
    14. pen to circle do eye shadow region, copy a layer, the curve of pressure dark color to adjust,
    15. then uniform color eye shadow, color balance (middle tone): +50,0,0. (Shadow): +20,0,0,
    16. The details of color adjustment, the upper eyelid 1 / 3 part, Hue Saturation: 0, -40,0
    17. Circle detail, the upper eyelid eyelash root Department, under the eye before eyelid 1 / 3, press the DELETE key to delete the selection, so that exposed high-light position,canada goose shop,
    18. remove the extra part of eye shadow, feather 40
    19. circle detail on the inside corner to the eyelid 1 / 2, press the DELETE key to delete the selection, so exposing Highlight
    20. circle the eyes out, copy the layer, emergence 1, part of desaturation whites, mottled back, Hue Saturation: 0, -50,0
    21. whites details of the adjustment, curves adjustment to increase the light,
    22. eyes bright tone reproduction curve after layer, brush pen on the back half of the left eye, showing some shadows

    23. remove the pupil part
    24. with a curve to adjust eye color, so that the same
    25. plus eyes high light
    26. circle lips, emergence 2, curve adjustment lips high light, adjust the lips color
    27. adjust the nose Liang Gaoguang, adjust shadow highlight
    28. with optional color palette as a whole, the middle color -0,0, -2,2.
    29. Yanping Heng fine-tuning the use of color, (high light): 0,2, -2.
    30. liquefaction along the hair pull, combined with lens flare, light 182,35 mm focus,
    31. Finally, where appropriate, brush with flash complete

    1. establish Hue Saturation adjustment layer, Saturation -49,
    2. the establishment of an optional color layer,Jimmy Lin’s Resume, red: -49,0, +7, -41. Yellow: 0,0,0 , -23
    3. the establishment of the Hue / Saturation layer, brightness -49
    4. Colors. Yellow: 0,0,0, -26, white: 0,0, +46,0. Intermediate color: 0,0, -6,0.
    5. Optional color. Red: 0,0,0, -48. Black: 0,0, -47, +5. Transparency down to 37%
    6. Stamped, noise reduction, sharpening, painting and simple to use tool to repair the knee near spot,
    7. plus hidden corners, making a heart-shaped selection, emergence,canada goose clothes, with curves to brighten.

    1. open the original image, duplicate the layer,2011-8-9– night log, fill pure black, overlay mode.
    2. New Hue Saturation layer: saturation -85.
    3. New Brightness and Contrast layer: contrast +10,
    4. New optional color, red: 0, +30,0 , +100. Yellow: 0, -15,where to buy canada goose, -100,0. Intermediate color: 0,0,0, +5.
    5. Stamped Filter – Render – Lighting Effects: points of light, intensity 21, Focus 24, gloss 0, the material 69, 0 exposure, the environment 8,
    6. stamp,Canada Goose Vests, plus text-decoration

    1. Duplicate the layer, Filter – Blur – Radial Blur: number 71, blur method – zoom, quality – good,
    2. to establish a template, struck a car, then smear the dynamic wheel clashes ,
    3. Levels – optional colors. Plus material, rendering the whole atmosphere,Deceive the Chinese people for thousands of years of , with minor changes Dodge made, the main diameter of 5,canada goose cheap, the hardness of the minimum

    1. tweak the color cast, bring up a general tone, establish Levels adjustment layer Levels full channel: 0,1.35,255. Levels Red Channel: 0,0.85,255. Levels Green Channel: 0,1,10,255 Levels: 0,0.95,255
    2. The establishment of the Hue / Saturation adjustment layer to reduce the original image’s saturation, Full Figure saturation -30
    3. create a Photo Filter adjustment layer, the first step in the blue has come out, this step is to deep yellow with a concentration of 25%, mode mode, the original place where the dark darker, choose the Channels palette, hold down the ctrl-point red channel, to get back to photo filter selection fills the mask in black.
    4. the establishment of an optional color adjustment layer, red: 100, -33,100, -40. Yellow: 0,0, -40,0. White: +15,0, +20, +20
    5. To brighten some of the windows, set up the Hue / Saturation adjustment layer to in other parts of the window wipe. Hue 260, Saturation 25, Lightness +75
    6. To create a color balance adjustment layer, to distinguish the characters and to the surrounding environment, set up after the mask used in the large soft black brush to figure as the center angle wipe it. Levels +20, +20, +40, choose the middle tone

    1. create a new layer, fill light yellow, overlay mode, the value 247,240,197
    2. copy just the yellow layer, Linear Burn mode, the mask given rise to a yellow car, avoid car color through yellow,
    3. adjust brightness, contrast, high light some of exposure to normal color and subject, brightness -20, contrast +64, New Saturation adjustment layer, saturation -31. to determine the final brightness of the daylight to high light at the color and detail prevail in the dark can be ignored,
    4. Duplicate the background layer adjust shadow highlight to shadow detail is the best place as the benchmark, the shadow: the number 100, color width 33, radius 102, high light: the number of 0, the tone width 50, radius 30, adjustments: color correction +20 0 midtone contrast, the construction of black 0.01%, the construction of White 0.01%
    5. Duplicate the background layer to adjust brightness of the sky, with the exposed layer to make up the sky over deficiencies,
    6.-tuning the details, to wipe the sky wires, repair Clone brush will do,
    7. Flatten Image, fine-tuning the details, sharpen

    1. Open to copy the picture layer, Ctrl + Alt + ~, to be selection, emergence 3-5. curve brightens, about 18,0
    2. Adjust levels: 25,1,20,245. Mongolia version of the clashes and details of some of the main characters
    3. stamped, resurfacing of the characters to brighten the edge of the modified sharpening
    4. on the back layer for color balance, midtones: -12, -10, -13 High light: +8,0, -19.
    5. back layer into LAB mode
    6. Create a new layer, Shift + Ctrl + N, soft mode, transparency 30-40%
    7. in the new layer applied on the image, layer: merge layers, soft mode, transparency 100%,
    8. adjustment layer, the lightness channel curve adjustment, 5,0 9 on the LAB color image hue saturation adjustment, full-figure: 0, +10,0. Yellow: 0, +35,0 Green: 0, +15,0. Red: 0, -20, 0 Blue: +10, +30,0.
    10. into Levels: 20,1.20,245. adjustment of the lightness channel, a gradient in the mask at the round out with the main characters, and then wipe the brush out the details
    11. stamped return RGB color, color options available for the image, the red channel: 0,0,0, -30 clashes in the mask on the petals
    12. stamp, New blank layer with white brush to increase watering effect, pen pressure. 100% hardness, spacing +54%

    1. get hold of handsome eyes point to increase the visual and attractive copy eye out, change the eye color filter layer model, this effect is relatively easy to do foreigners, Asians or preferably with a US-pupil or another
    2. brighten the face, prominent face, with the lasso tool to trap the face, brightens after emergence, not too bright,
    3. with the lasso tool to pull the hair, pulled face it does not matter, can then use the eraser clean, brighten after emergence
    4. understanding the whole, it seems a unified point, the hair part of the eraser can erase a little bit,
    5. cover to get a new layer (Ctral + Alt + Shift + E), with a stamp on the face of the mole-volt tools, slight decrease in color counterweight point color, and increase the point of erotic, it seems the white point,
    6. Create a new transparent layer, the layer mode to soft, dark eye shadow with a liner at the bottom to add color to issue from the inside of the eye, from deep to shallow, layered with a soft brush highest

    7. Create a new transparent layer, soft mode, draw a circle with a purple eye shadow as background, if the fear of bad results can often use vague to adjust color, know that until evenly
    8. Adjust the high light areas of skin to add a new transparent layer, overlay mode, brush painted with the color of the nose, the most apt to find the root color photos and increase high-light, the benefits that can improve the contrast to increase visual,
    9. to do the whole adjustment, increased The new transparent layer, soft light mode and increase high-light area color, color change, in the forehead with dark red hair and add there between, increased shadow, face red saturation is not too high, nor too low, feeling applied to the face looks like the real,
    10. a new transparent layer, the soft mode, the high level of light in the nose, add some high-gloss colors, make the nose look more deeply with the contours, higher pick, can wipe his face dirty place out, or have dark areas

    11. a new transparent layer, overlay mode, to the lip color, painted purple, transparency of 70%
    12. a new transparent layer, positive overlay mode, transparency 40% in the nose, forehead, face where the increase in black and red, add shadows with layering,
    13. a new transparent layer, overlay mode, the eye shadow to be of two layers, a layer is a little light outside, inside to deep purple, the best Gaussian confused about until evenly
    14. new transparent layer, soft light mode to increase the black-purple, black make this differentiation, it seems more glamorous,
    15. a new transparent layer, overlay mode, including the eye to the nasal has to face office, people, drawing on the light between the two lips, dark red, add a sense of contour levels, adjust the transparency of the painting is completed, some may be deep

    16. side of the forehead and narrow face, deepen the color, overlay mode, the color is the red line,
    17. plus there below the shadow of the lips, or mouth looks very fake
    18. covered with the same color his face dirty place, with the same color next to a straw draw, may cover part of the hair, for a painting can be.
    19. a new transparent layer, the soft mode, the next home on the green eye shadow,
    20. mouth with dirty face, where the same color with the pipette, fill the new layer to the dirty place,
    21 . Create a new layer Multiply mode, transparency 20%, painted black and red make up,
    22. facial hair is dark brown, hair black hair which is a lighter gray color, and draw a good the hair part,
    23. Create a new layer,canada goose discount, fill color to cover the forehead close to the skin, cotton looks so rough
    24. face complementary color, look more red, more praise, more to attract far
    25 new transparent layer, the Multiply mode, the transparency of 50%, brown on the forehead, pressed dark skin color, to enhance the contrast
    26. a new transparent layer, overlay mode, 50% transparency in painting cheeks orange, foreigners face more exaggerated makeup, the red point does not matter,
    27. the adjustment of the overall color, sharpening what

    1. open the original file, according to their own sense of color adjustment through the adjustment of the film, and dermabrasion, microdermabrasion value not too much, (Neat image plugin)
    2. a new layer, color FEE7D6, ( According to the film character’s color settings), the layer mode to Overlay and 25%, 20% with a brush the skin on the face and neck light coating,
    3. features of the detailed work, cutting out the mouth, the emergence copy (Ctrl + J), using the smudge tool to smear on the lip, the lip skin becomes soft and delicate (not too much strength)
    4. Create a new layer to the lips and face color, color FDC1D6 , the layer mode to color, with a brush in the side of the lips and face painting,
    5. with the Dodge tool, the range is the high light exposure of 25% to draw the lip of the high light, with the Burn tool, the range is intermediate, 20% of the exposure, contrast enhanced lips,
    6. a new layer, color 8E1A25, 3 pixel brush, draw the inside of the inside, then draw 2 pixels outside the lip lines (high-light Dodge mask some part of the line was built)
    7. circle the emergence of the nose, copy,Smart woman will know the 30 life tips, use the smudge tool around the gentle refinement of the nose, then use the Dodge tool range is a high light exposure of 20%, to strengthen the next The high light nose, then use the color 422B2D, 2 pixel brush to draw the contours of the nose (if the light of the lines to make up with better tools to the next)

    8. eclosion circle replication of the eye brows with the smudge tool on the soft skin around the eyes, thinning eyebrows, and then use the Dodge tool range is a high light exposure of 15%, to strengthen the high light under the eyes, with better tools the middle range, to deepen the lines around the eyes,
    9. with the smudge tool to smear some of the detailed eyes, look softer, with some better tools to enhance black eyes, with the Dodge tool range is a high light exposure least 20% of high light to enhance eyes and make the eyes look brighter,
    10. color 080101, 3-pixel brush, draw eyelashes part, (the line Dodge tools to deepen the color depth can be used to make up) eyelash line can also be used paths and some other methods tick,
    11. eyebrow with the smudge tool to apply some of the beautiful, his brow a little rough spots slightly darker color, apply diluted down along the back, then two pixels with a brush in front to draw eyebrows eyebrows lines, so eyebrows more structured,
    12. Smudge tool to choose hair brush, (according to hair texture to set brush shape), applied the process to be applied along the hair texture, not too much force to be applied uniform,
    13. some hair brush with a normal smear to convergence, (hair must be applied carefully)

    14. draw the texture to the hair, the new layer, layer mode to Overlay, choose a pencil pixels to 1 (the value determined according to the size of character images), color, hair texture for the DFDFDF draw down smooth lines
    15. horsetail some choose the brush tool, brush lightly with a fork along the texture of some of the painting, the color layer model above,
    16. Create a new layer, the normal mode, select the brush tool, pixel 1, opacity 60%, 80% flow, the color is white, draw dynamic forehead hair,
    17. clothes and necklaces with the smudge tool smearing some softer, and then choose to use the Dodge tool, the range is the high light , exposure 20%, clothes and necklaces to enhance the high light
    18. synthesis of the whole image sharpening, sharpening value is 8, with the Dodge tool to highlight some of the little processing, the overall color correction, the ( can be modified to add some background light, highlighting the theme)

    1. open the original image, copy the layer, the image – adjust – to color
    2. filter – Artistic Effects – Plastic packaging, according to the original image to reduce transparency
    3. adjust the black level color scale, is the picture black and white, Levels: 88,0.27,192
    4.Ctrl + Alt + ~, high light extraction layer of black and white constituencies, money becomes small eyes, hidden, back to the background layer,
    5 . to get in front of the high-light selection to adjust the curve, pulled the top of the curve, the effect came out
    6. adjust the brightness contrast of the background layer, increase, or about the appropriate tone color, brightness, +4, +7 contrast

    1, open lotus photo, copy the background layer.
    2, to adjust levels to increase color and black and white contrast. Levels: 15,1.0,200
    3, reversed after the implementation of Gaussian blur, radius 1, then go to Filter – Brush Strokes – splash. Spray radius of a color, smoothness, 3
    4, a new layer, set the layer blending mode to color, with pink lotus brush to paint color.
    5, and then add some random text, seal, complete.

    1. into the channel panel, then use the
    Channel Green – Mixed Multiply, Opacity 20%
    channel red – mixed dark, opacity 100%
    2. adjustments – color balance – high gloss – Levels: -8, +13, +11
    3. blue channel during the time the application image, layers: Background – Mixed: Multiply, Opacity 50%,
    4. with curve adjust the brightness, move the top right of the red channel a little bit, Blue channel all channels 6,0 4,15
    5. copy a layer copy of the out of the blue channel of operation again, mixed Multiply, Opacity 50%
    6. the last thing to do is prominent figures, and with the eraser, given rise to some people, pay attention to the appropriate lower transparency.

    1. Copy a new layer
    2. with the stamp tool to repair acne out
    3. the results of the repair records pox snapshot,
    4. do a Gaussian blur, intensity, texture of skin disappear prevail, radius 4.0
    5. snapshots, named Gaussian blur []
    6.] according to [repair acne just completing the picture back to the state when the pox, and point [Gaussian blur ] the left frame, so that the small icon to switch over, which is immediately in order to use the History Brush as the target point
    7. the history brush, smooth it at the face painting needs, pay attention to avoid the contour and hair, eyebrows, etc., you can use the [key and the] key at any time to change brush size, to modify some fine, if not carefully brush the wrong, does not matter, as long as you record in the history panel, the icon points to the left acne according to [repair], and then painted, you can brush back, said at the beginning of the process is reversible

    8. you can change the brush’s opacity to control the intensity of your painting, the brush 20, opacity 55%
    9. After the effects wear smooth, very smooth, but no skin texture, but also the next step processing
    10. snapshots of grinding [smooth], each phase is complete, we are the best record, you can always go back.
    11. continue to do so, Ctrl + A to select all months, again a Ctrl + C, copy under the polished effect. Then click on the History panel repair acne [], so that the file back to the state before the finish
    12.Ctrl + V to copy down the finish effect just released into the new layer and change the transparency that can be revealing some of the lower, opacity 70%
    13. Click the lower, that is, not wear off that layer, to a much sharpening, the number of 140, radius 0.7,
    14. This overlay, delicate skin without losing texture texture, skin polishing step is complete, remember to save the snapshot to complete [the skin]
    15. pulled below the layer 1 icon, copy the new layer, set to

    1. Select the blue channel
    2. Channel Mixer, check the
    3. dermabrasion, body beautification characters.
    4. to give people the skin and clothes with parameter default; use after effect is blue, but also use the
    6. to effect step 6 mixed-mode to
    8 ..
    9. fine-tune what the characters face color, brightness, contrast, and some of the details.
    10. produced as shown in the
    12. to the
    13. The

    1. Duplicate the layer and adjust – to color,
    2. curve adjustment, increase the chiaroscuro, the input 114, output 186
    3. Duplicate the layer, Filter – Brush Strokes – ink outline the stroke length of 5, 10 look-strength, light intensity of 10, falling into a soft light layer mode, adjust the opacity,
    4. Filter – Gaussian Blur, Radius 2.0 pixels,
    5. Filter – Brush Strokes – spray, spray radius of a color, smoothness, 3,
    6. add the light brown solid layer, Figure Cen Enchanters of color, adjust opacity, not transparency, some as small as possible,
    7 points out of a solid color layer and the layer in front of the eye to hide it, the new layer with the brush in the lanterns, trees, tiles, etc. with the appropriate color layer,
    8. to restore a hidden layer, change the layer mode to overlay, to see the effect to tune the details,
    9. the overall effect on the screen to fine tune, until satisfactory results, no specific steps vary

    1. according to a picture with a white edge landscape plan, as do the edges with a white border spillover effects
    2. hue saturation: saturation +80, adjust the impressionist effect,
    3. editor – Define Pattern.
    4. to build a white fill layer, 50% opacity, to build a transparent layer
    5. pattern stamp tool, brush the main diameter of 200, comes with the brush wet media brushes 45 election, mode normal, opacity 100% , Impressionist in front of check,
    6. in a transparent layer pattern stamp painting, vision plays King strokes large, otherwise small strokes more details, see the above adjustment layer opacity brush strokes,
    7. Copy Background layer to the color filter – splash, 71% opacity, layer mode to Overlay
    8. Filter – Texture – textured, opacity 100%,
    9. filter – distort – spread light 37%

    1. in RAW to adjust brightness, contrast, etc., laying the foundation for the later adjustment,
    2. join the sky material, simple transparency, make the sky into the layer,
    3. New Adjustment Layer optional colors – middle color: +20, +6, +7, -4, absolute, a little water color uniform,
    4. khaki color fill, opacity 54%, dark blue fill color, opacity 61 %, fill deep purple, opacity 76%,
    5. fine-tuning, high light and middle tone selection method and the resulting mask, high-light selection method: calculation – Source 1: Layers merge layers, gray channel, the source 2: Layers merge layers, gray channel, Multiply blend, opacity 100%.
    6. midtones selection method: Source 1: Merge layers, gray channel, the source 2: Merge layers, gray channel, Multiply blend, opacity 100%.
    7.RGB get inside the mask channel, with the curves adjustment, high light adjustment: Black wire grid on the left in the middle of the penultimate line, blue line to the cut point, midtone adjustment: up to adjust some, 8. reflected light mask, lasso select constituency, emergence, as a whole provides bright,
    9. ship debris to reduce saturation, Saturation: -36,
    10. sharpening overall

    1. Duplicate the layer, adjust brightness, contrast, Merge Down,
    2. into LAB mode, select the image using an image, to calculate,
    3. the layer mode to color, cover printed layers,
    4. into the RGB channel, blue channel will be filled with black, to extract the green channel selection, will fill the selection with white,
    5. Hue Saturation, Red: +20, +1,0. cyan: -7, +26,0 Other data without moving the layer mode to color,
    6. into the RGB channel, select the green channel selection, anti-choice, color balance adjustment layer, select midtones , values: -10, -6, +16. shadow: +4, +5, -2 High light: -19, -26, -40
    7. back layer, into the RGB channel, select the red channel constituency, copy, paste back to RGB mode, layer mode to color, select the curve adjustment layer, the red channel: 173,193. Red channel: 58,56. Green Channel: 180,201. Green Channel: 53,58. Blue channel: 55,62.
    8. The layer mode to color, copy the layer, copy the map layer, layer mode to brightness, transparency, 20%
    9. Select the adjustment layer, hue saturation, blue: +5, -49, -2.

    10. adjust the color balance adjustment layer, the middle tone: -6,0, +3 shadow: -7, +3, -1.
    11. color balance, shadow: +4, +5 , -2. Shadow: +4, +5, -2 High light: -19, -26, -40.
    12. Plus the lightning effect.

    1. copy the layer into a Smart Filter, you can filter for the purpose of effect of adjustment
    2. filter – render – lighting effects, all light, negative 17, Matte -25, 100 plastic effect, exposure of less than 32, negative 28,
    3. New optional color adjustment layer, red: -100, -3,03,0. Yellow: -59, -6, -23, +1 Green: +9 , +5, -100, +27. cyan: +8, -76, -3, -100. White: +1, -40, -73, -10. Intermediate color: +16, -18, -18, -3. Black: 0,0,0, +28

    1 First he took a shot a good picture.
    2 with mask mask part of the sky.
    3 Add the sky section, and placed in the bottom of the screen can be adjusted.
    4 new layer to the third layer, mainly to adjust the picture tone.
    5 changes on demand is not transparent, change the layer properties to Soft Light.
    6 In order to find oil in the texture effect, in color and then add a layer above the layer of material amend
    7 layer properties to Soft Light, opacity changes on demand. This opacity is 86%
    8 add mask, according to the need for appropriate trade-off screen content.
    9 in order to strengthen a sense of texture, then create a new layer, filled with gray.
    10 In the Add Noise filter to Gaussian and check the color, the number of custom.
    11 layer to Soft Light.
    12 mask according to the screen need to be adjusted appropriately.
    13 Noise, Add Noise – number 400, Gaussian distribution

    1. open the original image, taking color, with a repair tool to fix the extensive damage to areas
    2. Duplicate the layer a copy of Filter – Noise – Dust & Scratches, radius 10, threshold value of 6 3. to increase the mask layer a copy, click on the mask, the edges with a brush tool for people outside the smear,
    4. to the layer 1 to Filter – Noise – Dust & Scratches, radius 10, the threshold 6,
    5. layer a return to the History panel, dust and scratches the top layer, rub with a brush coated with a spot where the eye shadow of the face to be careful
    6. If required to do the high point of the high-contrast points to retain or change color depth-point spirit,
    7. the repair of all make reference to some parameters fine-tuning your own would be better

    1. open the original image in Photoshop. As the most from living according to the low-end digital cameras, black and white field can not be well positioned, so the photographs are often like this will be the same gray.
    2. before the background copy layer, USM sharpening,Canada Goose Montebello Parkas, number 50, radius 0.5
    3. adjust levels, the right light for the high number, the number left for the dark tone, the middle of the middle tone, increase the brightness of the face , 0,1.0,200
    4. adjust the color balance, so that the whole picture partial blue, more off the face. Shadow: -30,0,0
    5. Create a new layer of black and white, to enhance the contrast, choose the %
    7. this time the photo is very pale, add a Hue / Saturation adjustment layer, +15 saturation.

    1. to find a fold of the background, drag the photos will need to make the background layer, resize and cropping, border and background to the match,
    2. adjustments – hue saturation, the whole map: saturation -35 degrees, brightness +10,
    3. adjustment layers into a soft mode, the effect of the old photos out,
    4. hue saturation, the whole map: 0, -80,0
    5 Duplicate the layer, hue saturation – color: 340,24,0
    6. create a new layer on top, fill it with black,
    7. Filter – Noise – Add Noise, increase in the old sense, the number of 25%, Gaussian,
    8. Blending Mode to Multiply,
    9. Image – Adjustments – RP,
    10. to remove the border of variegated,Canada Goose Gloves, Rectangle Selection Tool Select the border with the medial side, DEL key to delete the profile part of the variegated,
    11. clashes with the eraser tool around the variegated character

    1 Open a picture
    2 Press d key (default foreground)
    3 window – Action – Creating a new action, name – rain
    4 Duplicate the layer, in the new map layer on the filter – pixelate – dot-based cell size – 3 spots of the more heavy rain on the larger, more spots of rain less.
    5 Image – Adjustment – Threshold 255. the layer mode to color filter
    6 Filter – Blur – Motion Blur, Angle 76, from 22, to determine. The greater the distance on a rainy night the greater the distance the more rain, the smaller
    7 Filter – Sharpen – in the implementation of a filter – sharpen
    8 point window – Action – point to stop playing; then play the selected action (actually copied layer) 3 times (so there are four rain layer)
    9 to open the animation in the first frame off the top three layers on the eyes, leaving only the background and layer 1 eyes; 2 layer 1 frame the eyes closed, eyes open the Layer 1 copy; 3 layer 1 frame off a copy of your eyes,Chat fortune 2012 Zodiac – Dog, open the Layer 1 copy 2 of the eyes; the first frame off Layer 1 copy 4 2 eyes, open the Layer 1 copy 3 of the eye in the choice of all the frames, set up time of 0.2 seconds.
    10 last save animated GIF format.

  1115. rqojantifz December 18, 2011 at 10:32 pm #

    [???????]??????????????????????????????????????“????????SAN?????????”GA 14????????? ??????????????????????????????RO???“??????”???????????TA??????????????????????????????NI????????????????NE NA????? ??? s???????????????TA GA??????????????????????????TA??????GA???????????????????????TA“???????”???GA 14????1000??????????????????????????92?????????????NI NA????????????“????????????? “??????”???????RO??????????????120?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????RU? ?????????TA NI NI?????????????????????NI NA?????????? ????RU?????n??????????????????????GA?????????????“???”?????????????????TA????????GA???????????????x????????????????????????????????????????????????????????GA NI????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????WA 13?????????????“????????????????????????????????????GA????????????????KA??DA“????”???“??WA”???????GA?NA NA???? ??? s??????????????????????????DA??“??????????TA???????WA?????????8??????????????????????????GA NI????????????????????????NA NA???“???”????TA??????1965??????????????????????????????????????????DA???WA??????????????????NA???WA??????NA?????????? ??TA?????????????????????????????????WA????????? ??????????????

  1116. mytei9bst December 19, 2011 at 6:52 am #

    ,monster beat

     

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  1118. youmouyixia December 20, 2011 at 7:43 am #

       18, according to Japanese media reports, Japan All Nippon Airways captain of excessive drinking has a recurrence of events leading to flight delays, which occurred within a month the second similar incident.
       According to reports, a 62-year-old captain of ANA’s scheduled for 17 am to fly to Hong Kong flights to Osaka, but a routine preflight inspection revealed that the captain of the standard alcohol content of up to twice the upper limit. ANA decided to replace the temporary captain, flight so delayed. ANA is considering action that captains.  Solar Water Heater
       According to ANA’s requirements, within 12 hours prior to departure can not exceed two bottles of beer drinking. This captains admitted to the two restaurants was the evening of 16 continuous drinking, drinking beer, sake and shochu much more than the company standard. The name of the captain admitted that he acts rashly, "over-confident of their own liquor."
       November 30, an ANA flight from Fukuoka to Tokyo is also captain of the body due to excessive alcohol and grounded. solar heater
     

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  1119. vidhqpqsbg December 20, 2011 at 9:04 pm #

    old friends
    Julian Cheung Chi-shan Xuqiu Yi Huang Baoxin

    Ganzi Hui Chiang: Time

    seemingly half-drunk feeling a little tired looking

    how much fun the past

    how many were tired and I hung with

    time again was hard to take back

    around today do not know how many people

    can still hold my hand

    Wei: in long days with
    Wei: Would like to have friends and warm heart
    Lin Yi: A total of Lin Yi Wan Shou share all
    : Whether Beiku Joy and sorrow
    Yellow: Old Friends heart closely
    Huang: May you take to keep
    Gan: do nothing to explain all
    Gan: I just want to sincerely say this sentence needs success
    Female: Women in long days with
    : Would like to have friends and warm heart
    Male: Total share all
    Wan Shou M: Joy and sorrow both Beiku
    together: Old Friends heart closely All: May you take to keep
    together: do nothing to explain all
    M: just want to sincerely say
    sentence together: I am now needs success

    Jiang: How can How can Even at the moment to retain even a little more reserved

    of friendship (of friendship) I now have

    together: in long days with warm hearts
    would like to have friends to share all
    total Wanshou Joy and sorrow both Beiku

    closely
    old friends would like you had a good heart to keep
    not do anything just to explain all
    sentence I would like to say this needs success

    Jiang: I just want to sincerely say this sentence needs success

    Wei Jiang Zhiguang

  1120. hlqlanlpvj December 21, 2011 at 2:33 am #

    ???????

    12021.39

    -162.87????

  1121. wctzgnzkwv December 21, 2011 at 4:06 pm #

    please do not say I’ve changed just because I have not changed
    me know what I’m someone else how to treat others on today’s unfeeling indifference
    masterpiece
    who do not speak does not mean I do not change you do not represent my topic
    it is because I have feelings
    I have been deliberately disguise
    I could bear who knows
    I have to tell who can understand me nowhere The mood at the moment the tears fell in the moment

    only vent to let me forget all the troubles I do not like to explain

    because I think it is unnecessary to explain sometimes
    more more meaningless but feel all let

    but I’m not changing too much for various reasons
    frustration
    I really wronged very lonely life that
    I have to bear to force
    not eligible because I had no ability to resist
    can only smile to hide the vulnerability of the heart
    not clear in no change in my heart have to go before the
    Learn
    not changed by one to determine
    you whether a person really change
    I hate the word
    you changed it a little scary for me because I’m afraid
    a people change the words but because of persistent injury to another person
    I have not changed because of my personality is such
    often prefer to be mistaken for the letter do not want to explain
    and do not believe in an idea between

  1122. vnrwandkhb December 21, 2011 at 9:12 pm #

    >

    ????12?13???????????

    ???????(eu)???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??? s?????????????????????????????;????????????????????? ???????????~ 2?????????????????????????????????????????????????=????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????choco battle]?n???????????????????????

    ???????????????????????? ?????79.51????????????. 17 %???????/????????????????????1.3187 1 . 45 %???????/???????1.3177??????????????????????/????????11?25???????????????????1.3300??????????????

    ?????????????????????????10???????????????????????????????????????????(s &???????????????(eu)???frb????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    ????????????????????????????????????????2012???????eu?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????2012???1????????????????????????????????????

    3?????????????????????????????????(s & p)???????????????????6????????????aaa?????????????????????15?????????????????????? ???????????? ??? s?????????????????????????????????????????????3????????????????????

    ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    ????(eu)????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    kathleenbrooks forex . com??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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  1124. uhljayashi December 24, 2011 at 8:20 am #

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  1126. zjy20112v8s December 24, 2011 at 9:11 am #

    31iga828mk

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  1128. ubxrhnhd December 24, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

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  1132. maomaomao1 December 25, 2011 at 11:01 pm #

    ??????59.html???????????

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  1136. uewpeudtkd December 26, 2011 at 3:40 pm #

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  1139. youmouyixia December 27, 2011 at 7:55 am #

       China’s accession to the World Trade Organization after 10 years, Russia is continuing to negotiate for years after the organization was finally accepted. German economic sector has affirmed and said that Russia’s accession to the WTO will bring economic benefits to Germany.
       German Economy Minister Rossler 16, said in a statement, Russia’s WTO accession "to Germany, Russia and the World Trade Organization is a good thing", as Russia’s most important trading and economic partners, Germany is bound to benefit from Russia’s accession to the WTO . After becoming a WTO member, Russia will recognize the international trade rules and the obligation to open their markets, which will play a stabilizing role in trade between the two countries will enhance and stimulate the economic relationship between Germany and Russia.  wedding Gowns
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  1141. mrvoqxmvyj December 28, 2011 at 8:07 pm #

    Or read Huaner park at the right time .
    son said:
    teacher said:

  1142. rqojantifz December 28, 2011 at 11:55 pm #

    ?RO??????WBC??????????????????23????????WBC???????15?????????6????GA??????????????????????NI?SAN DA GA???47???????????????????????????????????????????????? ???TA NA KA? ??????????

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  1152. ivanovvv86 September 28, 2012 at 7:03 am #

    but these queues are so ephemeral that usually the data is persisted elsewhere before and after a cool entering the queue, which kills some of the reasons for using a queue. The only strong use case I have consistently come across for implementing one of the mentioned queue servers is when there is a high level of concurrent processing going on and race conditions would be better handled by a FIFO/LIFO