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by James Howard Kunstler

     I was in Detroit in 1990 — not my first time — poking around to get a deeper feel for the place so I could write a chapter about it in The Geography of Nowhere. At mid-day, I was driving on one of the great avenues that radiates out of the old Beaux Arts  fan of streets that emanates from the Grand Circus at the heart of downtown — Woodward or Cass or Gratiot, I forget. It was a six or eight laner, and everything along both sides was either some kind of social service installation or vacant. There was no traffic, by which I mean not merely a smooth flow of cars, but no other cars whatsoever. For at least a mile, my rent-a-car was the only vehicle on the street. Finally I saw another car up ahead, in my lane, coming straight at me. It continued bearing down on me, until the last 100 feet or so when it veered around me with an indignant blare of the horn. It was only about then that I noticed a sign indicating that I was on a one-way street. Downtown Detroit was so empty that I could drive a good mile the wrong way without knowing it.

      Detroit’s decline and fall was long and gruesome. Back then, just outside the downtown of 1920s skyscrapers, there were whole neighborhoods of formerly magnificent old mansions in the most amazing states of dilapidation, with sagging porches, chimneys tilting at impossible angles, and whole exterior walls missing to reveal eerie dollhouse-like vignettes of rooms painted different colors, formerly lived in. These were built by the wealthy magnates of the Great Lakes frontier — the timber and copper kings, manufacturers of paint, coal stoves,  etc — before the car industry was even a gleam in  Henry Ford’s flinty eye. Over the 1990s they were all torched in the annual Halloween ritual called Devil’s Night. The next time I came back to Detroit, there were wildflower meadows where those ruined mansions had been. In a mere century, all that grandeur had arisen and been erased.

     The grandest ruin of Detroit is the much-photographed main train station, with its attached office tower. The old neo-classical hulk had been neglected for so many decades that mature ailanthus trees were growing out of the parapets. I was back in downtown Detroit, around Cadillac Square, in the1990s shooting some “walk-and-talk” for a documentary at rush hour on a weekday evening and it was like the night of the living dead there. The old Hudson’s department store was dark and empty and the Statler Hotel had plywood sheets over every window. (It was demolished in 2005.) We were the only humans in the vicinity at 5:30 pm.

     It’s fitting that Detroit is the first great American city to officially bite the dust, because it produced the means of America’s suicidal destruction: the automobile. Of course you could argue that the motorcar was an inevitable product of the industrial era — and I would not bother to enlist a mob of post-doc philosophy professors to debate that — but the choices we made about what to do with the automobile is another matter. What we chose was to let our great cities go to hell and move outside them in a car-dependent utopia tricked out as a simulacrum of “country living.” The entire experiment of suburbia can, of course, be construed as historically inevitable, too, but is also destined to be abandoned — and sooner than most Americans realize.

     Finally, what we’ll be left with is a tremendous continental-sized vista of waste and desolation, the end product of this technological thrill ride called Modernity. It’s hard to find redemption in this story, unless it’s a world made by hand, with all its implications for a return to human-ness.

     What happened to Detroit will come to all the other great American metroplexes in time, but perhaps not in the same way. So-called urban experts like Ed Glaeser at Harvard (The Triumph of the City), and other exalted idiots just don’t get it. These cities attained a scale of operation that just can’t be sustained beyond the twilight of cheap fossil fuels. They will all contract massively — some of them, such as Phoenix and Las Vegas will disappear altogether. The lucky ones will reconstitute themselves at much smaller scale around their old harbors or riverfronts. The ones burdened with too many grandiose mega-structures (New York, Chicago) will choke to death on the liabilities they represent. The reason for this can be found in the basic equations around the cost and supply of energy resources and the consequent impairments of capital formation. In short, neither the affordable energy nor the money will be there to run things as we’re used to running them. The voodoo economists of the ivy League, the White House, the Federal Reserve, and The New York Times are utterly clueless about how this works.

     Other idiots want to dedicate the ruins of Detroit, and places like it, to “urban farming.” This represents yet another layer of misunderstanding of how the world works. Detroit and most other cities occupy important geographical sites (in this case a river between two Great lakes). Some kind of urban human settlement will continue to occupy that site in the future.  It will just be smaller, less complex, and almost certainly less hideous than the disgraceful tangle of freeways, casinos, 7-Eleven shops, and rotting bungalows that remains on-the-ground there now. Farming is what happens outside the urban settlement (though gardening is another matter). There’s plenty of room in the rest of Michigan for farming.

     By the way, the vast donut of prosperous suburbs around the ruins of Detroit are not long for this world either. Their wealth will prove to be just as transitory as the wealth embodied by those bygone inner mansion neighborhoods of the pre-1900 Detroit, and the detritus will be harder to clean up there because it is spread so far and wide. That particular lesson remains to be learned all over the rest of the USA, but with crude oil at $108-a-barrel this morning, a smack upside America’s thick-boned head is probably not far from landing.

    How the legal aspects of Detroit’s bankruptcy get worked out will just be a sideshow outside the main tent of greater industrial era collapse and the practical demographic alterations of everyday life we can look forward to.

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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency, and Too Much Magic: Wishful Thinking, Technology and the Fate of the Nation. His novels include World Made By Hand, The Witch of Hebron, Maggie Darling — A Modern Romance, The Halloween Ball, an Embarrassment of Riches, and many others. He has published three novellas with Water Street Press: Manhattan Gothic, A Christmas Orphan, and The Flight of Mehetabel.

730 Responses to “Requiem for Detroit” Subscribe

  1. Neon Vincent July 22, 2013 at 9:49 am #

    Welcome to Detroit, ground zero of the post-industrial future. Whatever solutions we devise for North America’s problems will be exported, including the bad ones. Detroit’s municipal bankruptcy is one of those solutions. Whether it will be a good one or a bad one has yet to be determined.

    So far, the mainstream media based in New York has been concerned for the implications of Detroit’s bankruptcy for business as usual, namely municipal unions and their members’ pensions. About the most far-seeing person among them so far has been Paul Krugman, who has written that sprawl killed Detroit. He’s finding out that he is more right than he thought. I’ll get to him later.

    http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/2013/07/detroits-bankruptcy-as-reported-by-new.html

    • Neon Vincent July 22, 2013 at 9:52 am #

      On another topic, ABC News buried the lede in a report about gas prices. A representative of AAA testified before Congress that prices at the pump below $3.00 were a thing of the past. That’s quite a recognition of reality for an organization devoted to the promotion of Happy Motoring! ABC News reported it, but didn’t use that as their headline.

      http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/2013/07/aaa-and-abc-news-declare-end-of-gas.html

      • K-Dog July 22, 2013 at 8:25 pm #

        I think ABC’s recognition of reality is in direct proportion to their desire to make you comfortable with the reality of – higher prices.

        I explain in more detail on your website. It’s so we can all become one with the long emergency. Oooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

  2. K-Dog July 22, 2013 at 9:50 am #

    A timely documentary “Detroitopia” is available on Netflix. I saw it about a month ago. It has pictures of the ailanthus trees growing out of the parapets.

    I recommend the video. It starts out with the destruction of one of I believe they said 100000 abandoned houses in the city.

    http://chasingthesquirrel.blogspot.com/2013/07/dreamtime.html

    • ozone July 22, 2013 at 11:29 am #

      Yessir,
      I think I’ll stay up here with some realists, while further on down the thread gum’mint-sponsored jerkwads spin us more ludicrous tales of Detroit as an “investment opportunity in-the-making”!

      Jesus, it’s mind boggling! (…And I suppose THAT would be the whole point.)

      I’m going to prepare. You see, if I’m prepared and manna should magically fall from the heavens, I may chuckle at my misgivings, but I’ll be no worse off. Those without preparation or magical manna (who don’t depend on the gum’mint’s largesse for their dailies) are double fucked. Oopsie, no laughs there.

      • Janos Skorenzy July 22, 2013 at 12:18 pm #

        Aw Pete! Don’t be like that.

      • K-Dog July 22, 2013 at 7:31 pm #

        YOU have powers!

        Now many hours gone by and sown the thread the gum’mint-sponsored jerkwads are doing as you predicted. Touting that Detroit’s glory days are yet to come and saying the present predicament is a consequence of union labour.

        The movie I suggested earlier showed the horrible union workers who had the audacity not to back down from I recall eleven to nine dollars an hour. The idea that somebody can’t raise a family on nine bucks an hour! Such nonsense, a population of spoiled babies, a nation of whiners.

        Not, but that’s what is going on down at the sponsored edge at the bottom of the comments. You called it right.

        Seriously good ! – Detropia

        • ozone July 23, 2013 at 9:21 am #

          …Placed at the top of my cue (while I still have a cue to place it in)… ;o)

    • ozone July 22, 2013 at 12:33 pm #

      Ah, I see the Counterfeit Caucasian Cracker-boy is right on time at shift change to besmear the place with his usual fecal musings. Yeah, we get it, it’s all the niggers fault. Anything else? Okay, I thought not.

      • K-Dog July 22, 2013 at 7:34 pm #

        None other than Obama’s own White Nationalist. Who’d O’ever thunk it. The perfect disguise.

        • Janos Skorenzy July 22, 2013 at 10:30 pm #

          You are real dumb sometimes. You still haven’t explained why the White Race has to go extinct.

  3. K-Dog July 22, 2013 at 9:51 am #

    Good morning Eddie !!!!!

    • Neon Vincent July 22, 2013 at 9:53 am #

      Good morning, K-Dog! So far, you’re proving to be my favorite commenter around here.

  4. Bukko Canukko July 22, 2013 at 9:55 am #

    I had a similar experience with the desolation that is downtown Detroit in 1985. I was driving back downstate from the cabin I owned on the shore of Lake Superior in the Upper Peninsula when I wanted to stop for some Greek food. I rolled into the Greektown section of the Motown, which was almost like a Grecian-themed tourist attraction even back then, not a living community. I was amazed to see police officers standing literally elbow-to-elbow on the street corners, a cordon of blue to keep away the forces of crime and darkness (i.e. black folks) from whitebreads like me who came to get pita breads with tzatziki. Opa! It was surreal — like a gated restaurant community.

    I’m surprised JHK didn’t mention “white flight” as part of the dynamic of dying Detroit, because that’s an urban development thing. Part of why Motown went down the highway to hell is because white folks moved out past 8-Mile Road, and the core was left to black folks, and rot. Marquee projects like the GM HQ and casinos didn’t do much to keep things alive for the people who were left. I’m not sure if you can blame education-hating black people, or fellow citizen-neglecting white people for the dynamic of decline. Both share some blame. But because Americans don’t care about each other, or keeping their own towns going (because they’d rather go to the suburbs) we’ve done with neglect what American bomber armadas did in WW II to Regensburg and other German industrial cities.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 22, 2013 at 12:21 pm #

      The Whites were driven out by Black Terror. Americans can’t talk to each other because the Truth isn’t allowed. No honest discussion of Detroit can neglect that fact.

      And now Blacks want Whites to foot the Bill again – the very Whites they drove out.

      • ghostlimb July 23, 2013 at 4:14 am #

        Funny that when the great northern migration began in the 50s, all the sewer lines, water lines, electrical lines and infrastructure was already there for tract housing development – by the time the ’67 riot hit – nice, spankin’ new housing was ready and waiting – suggesting whites drove whites out of the city in their Rotary club greedy need to decant the city for their individual profit… not a popular narrative, but counter to the trope you’re suggesting.

    • MikeMoskos July 22, 2013 at 9:39 pm #

      But it wasn’t just whites who left; wealthy dark skinned people did too.

      Here in Miami, we had a vibrant area called Overtown, just north of downtown, populated exclusively by dark skinned people. For years, the blame for its demise was laid exclusively on the construction of I-95 which cut through the neighborhood.

      But, one big road can only do so much damage. Desegregation laws meant people could live and shop anywhere and they were–apparently–eager to do so. Plus, TV and air conditioning came into wide use, meaning people spent more time at home and weren’t socializing outside. Street life was soon relegated to those without money to spend, and so all the local businesses disappeared.

      As Jim says, it seemed like a good idea at the time. But, you have to ask yourself just how much has been lost in America as each of us lives in our income-segregated cocoons. The young–at least here in Miami–seem to be doing their best to avoid it and suddenly our urban areas are filled with wide varieties of incomes, that is until the developers come in and try to re-stratify everything.

      • ozone July 23, 2013 at 9:17 am #

        “But, you have to ask yourself just how much has been lost in America as each of us lives in our income-segregated cocoons. The young–at least here in Miami–seem to be doing their best to avoid it and suddenly our urban areas are filled with wide varieties of incomes, that is until the developers come in and try to re-stratify everything.” -MM

        Are they trying to avoid isolation, or just simply haven’t the do-re-mi to live the cocooned lifestyle? I think it might be a little of both.
        For us readers of JHK and Orlov (among others), this instinctive, organic building of trust networks in a community is absolutely essential for future dispersal of needs.

        Was the destruction of trust of one’s neighbors a deliberate goal of vampire capitalism? I don’t know, but that appears to be one highly negative outcome.

        As to developers, how long can they continue this game? There’s lots of loose money sloshing around, looking for “investment opportunities”, but here again, it’s a matter of trusting in the greed paradigm. That’s not a good option, as we’ve seen, because it maximizes extraction.

    • anti dod July 23, 2013 at 10:16 am #

      ‘I’m surprised JHK didn’t mention “white flight” as part of the dynamic of dying Detroit…’
      White Flite is ‘just one more Anti White’ theme. De-rots has only 1 problem and it is not ‘off shoring’ or ‘Peak Oil’. Guess what its problem is? And its 18 billion in debt is no surprise.

  5. Ghung July 22, 2013 at 10:09 am #

    Ah, the irony. From HufPo recently:

    “SEMCOG, a regional governance board encompassing seven counties across Southeast Michigan, met Thursday afternoon to approve the 2040 Regional Transportation Plan. That vision will ultimately allocate $36 billion in funds over 25 years to the area’s roads, freeways, highways, buses and proposed light rail, including extensive work on I-94 and I-75.”

    See Huffington Post: “I-94 Expansion: Controversial SEMCOG Vote Passes, Will Widen Freeway Through Detroit (UPDATE)”

    The vast majority of the funds will go to dramatic expansion and upgrades to Detroit’s interstates. Cute video at the article. Perhaps they just want to ensure that folks can cruise through Detroit as fast as possible, on their way to somewhere else.

      • K-Dog July 23, 2013 at 11:20 pm #

        I learned how to do this today. The same video is posted downstream in the midst of today’s rolling trolldom. That was a test, I wanted to be able to post videos and didn’t know how. It turns out this site has a WordPress plugin. If you try and embed a youtube video using embed code it won’t work. All you have to do is drop the link to the U-tube Video in the comment box. The plugin does the rest.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrfv-9zm7zY&feature=player_embedded

        At the end of the project perhaps a final project review can give consideration to horses and mules as well as bicyclists?

    • ozone July 22, 2013 at 11:34 am #

      Shall delusion rule until the Great Crumbling and Crappification is complete?? Sure looks like it.

      • K-Dog July 23, 2013 at 11:25 pm #

        Politics perhaps? Just a guess, but if someone could follow the money perhaps something might turn up.

    • Karah July 22, 2013 at 9:13 pm #

      “…the practical demographic alterations of everyday life we can look forward to.” – JHK

      Fly-over, drive-over, it’s all the same when it comes to the ever increasing places that look and act their best when one is just passing through. Along with this reality is the economic reality of cities not being able to sustain anything more than a one night stand – drop your dough and go! They just can’t handle any more settlers nor do they want the complications that come with diversity of residents. They sure as hell can’t tax them 15% like they demand of tourists. That’s part of the reason why we see so many “little” ethnic estates within the metroplex because they just can’t depend on anyone else in town giving a sh*t about them, welcoming them, as the statue of liberty propaganda etched for eternity on the plaque tucked securely under Literty’s left armpit. The whole immigrant story has started to stink in the heat of desperation. There’s no way anyone can continue to romanticize the past when everything is so derelict. Besides being ignored by the speed of “progress”, the snow that blankets that part of the NORTH for 6 months renders the ruins practically invisible.

      Arson has become a tool for some people who have invested in these places to get a return since they can not do anything else with the properties besides getting a credit on their tax return. I suspect Devil’s Night wasn’t entirely about adolescent mischief and was tolerated for so long as being a solution to the problem of urban decay. Every city in the USA, big or small, has some form of economic blight here or there. For some reason these buildings, commercial or residential, are forced to change for one reason or another. They either burn up, get sold and repurposed or get bulldozed. It can be a long, drawn out, completely unnecessary process. There should be a federal law that commercial property owners and city property should not be allowed to be vacant and unused for more than 6 months. No one can use abandoned properties as a write off for tax purposes for 2 consecutive years. In 6 months they must be repurposed or put up for auction. These derelict properties must be declared a public nuisance and danger to the welfare of the community; breading ground for vagrants, drug houses, lower property values, etc.

  6. PuzzlerStill July 22, 2013 at 10:13 am #

    I dropped by a couple of weeks ago and found that CFN still had its usual assortment of racists and the resident government cheerleader. The new site had managed to screw up my Puzzler username — I’m still Puzzler.

    Peak Oil has been replaced by Shale Oil and natural gas, but the indicator to watch in the economic decline is pension defaults. That’s at the core of Detroit and many other American cities and states face even worse. Of course you may see your pension, but it will be paid in funny money that doesn’t come close to keeping up with inflation. So plan on not retiring. BTW it appears that Walmart has done away with its greeters, if you were counting on that job.

    • ozone July 22, 2013 at 11:32 am #

      No greeters!?!?!
      Damn, my dream job expunged from the ‘Murkin Dream. I’m crestfallen.

  7. Anotherplayaguy July 22, 2013 at 10:21 am #

    Good riddance. Not just Detroit, but the whole Industrial Military Prison complex.

  8. Carol Newquist July 22, 2013 at 10:26 am #

    Don’t count Detroit out just yet. The same thing was said of New York City in the ’70’s, and look at The Big Apple now. Remember this? Ahh….the memories.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/77/Ford_to_City.PNG

    That being said, remember Clint’s vain attempt to dress up the corpse during the Superbowl? Looks like the Mortician’s handiwork is wearing off….and Clint increasingly looks like a mortician these days in more ways than one.

    • outsider July 22, 2013 at 2:05 pm #

      Eastwood’s great film ‘Gran Torino’ about a collapsing Detroit was much more on the money. He played a bitter, retired auto worker, the last white man in his neighborhood, who liked to tell the Other to ‘git off my lawn.’ A movie with a message and well worth seeing.

      • Carol Newquist July 22, 2013 at 2:42 pm #

        Saw it and liked it. I agree it was an excellent message.Thuggery isn’t a racial issue. Thuggery transcends cultures and sub-cultures. Cross-cultural collaboration is the key to mitigating thuggery.

  9. George July 22, 2013 at 10:26 am #

    A sideshow?

    “How the legal aspects of Detroit’s bankruptcy get worked out will just be a sideshow outside the main tent of greater industrial era collapse and the practical demographic alterations of everyday life we can look forward to.”

    As things progress my sense is that anyone who might now be in a position to trouble themselves with the legal aspects of Detroit’s bankruptcy will be too busy dealing with basic survival to bother. That goes double for most of us since few trouble to arrange deck chairs on a quickly sinking ship. I’d be surprised if anyone bothered to record much of the looming collapse for posterity’s sake and suspect that only a few incoherent fragments will be recorded (kind of like what happened in the Crimea in WWII during an extended Nazi artillery barrage).

    http://www.thesisa.org

  10. Smoky Joe July 22, 2013 at 10:30 am #

    I’m not as convinced that suburbia will be abandoned so easily, even if the great cities do contract.

    If a populace wants to keep a place alive, they will. I saw this in the warren of old Roman streets found under York’s Minster (think cathedral). The Empire had gone early in the 5th Century, but for centuries the folk left behind “made do” reusing the Roman buildings until (I think) the 700s, when the Roman structures simply fell apart from lack of repairs.

    America is more likely to go that way than down Kunstler’s made-by-hand unpaved highway. Think Soylent Green: patched-up and battered, running on fumes a long time. Rich folks in compounds where they can drive safely and enjoy their entertainments; everyone else walking, on bikes, or driving beaters down pot-holed roads to various, to quote JHK, “living arrangements.” Living on the shoulders of those who won WWII and took us to the Moon.

    I’m glad those folks won’t live to see the slide.

    We won’t give up places that have value to us easily, even if they gradually decay and get very, very dangerous.

  11. siobhan July 22, 2013 at 10:31 am #

    my ex-husband believes that Detroit was killed off by over priced health insurance packages for unionized workers.

  12. janet July 22, 2013 at 10:44 am #

    Your ex-husband is parroting Republican talking points.

    Unionized workers are not the problem.

    Pension contributions this year will be about $25 billion less than they should be. But in a $16 trillion economy, that’s just not a big deal –Paul Krugman citing Boston College study

    Them’s the facts. Hard numbers. Completely fixable and not a reason to dismantle unions, as Republicans are always wont to do.

    • siobhan July 22, 2013 at 11:47 am #

      health insurance. not unions. we are both pro union. though he is a republican over in the UK

  13. Carol Newquist July 22, 2013 at 10:51 am #

    Bankruptcy no longer carries a negative stigma. It’s merely a way to wipe the financial slate clean and start anew without the onerous baggage. It all depends on your perspective. According to this article, businesses are committing to Detroit despite its looming bankruptcy. Surely these businesses are not collectively insane. They simply realize that Detroit is being reborn, and part of that rebirth is a stake through the heart of the city’s former life, i.e. bankruptcy to erase the vestiges of its former, but now decayed, glory. These new knowledge-worker businesses are on the ground floor of this rebirth and will be in prime position to capitalize on Detroit’s ultimately successful transition.

    http://www.rejournals.com/2013/06/10/accounting-firms-move-more-evidence-of-rebound-in-downtown-detroit/

    It’s a slow process, but downtown Detroit is steadily attracting new businesses as the city’s rebound continues.

    The latest example? One of the biggest accounting firms in the country just announced that it will set up shop in one of downtown Detroit’s key office buildings.

    Plante Moran, a certified public accounting and business advisory firm, earlier this month announced that it is opening an office in Detroit in the city’s Compuware building.

    And company officials said that they are excited to be part of the rebuilding efforts in this key Midwest city.

    “We are very pleased to be joining other businesses who have committed to the city of Detroit,” said Gordon Krater, Plante Moran’s managing partner, in a written statement. “There is an excitement and vitality about the city. Good things are happening, and we are proud to be a part of it.”

    Detroit Mayor Dave Bing, also in a written statement, added, “This is great news for the city of Detroit. This is another example of the business community’s commitment to transforming our city.”

    • Ghung July 22, 2013 at 11:08 am #

      I’m not sure you quite grasp the fundamentals of overshoot. It’s systemic, and it’s global. It may be easy to compartmentalize Detroit’s predicament and posit solutions, but I question the validity of that approach when viewed in the context of a long, shared emergency.

      We humans have made far too many claims on too few resources. There’s simply no way to wish ourselves out of that predicament. Seven billion humans (and counting), competing for what Detroit needs.

      • Carol Newquist July 22, 2013 at 11:16 am #

        Fundamentals of overshoot? Is Overshoot a science now…just like Economics?

        I understand the notion of Overshoot, and I’m not convinced Detroit is an example of it. I know those who have a vested interest in seeing things collapse sooner rather than later will hitch themselves to the assertion Detroit is the canary in the coal mine, but wishful thinking doesn’t make it so. I still think it’s too early. Remember, it’s The Long Emergency….and long may mean you won’t live to see anything substantial that validates a collapse.

        • Ghung July 22, 2013 at 12:21 pm #

          “Is Overshoot a science now…just like Economics?”

          Overshoot is a condition, one that science and honest observation reveals as the condition in which our species finds itself.

          If you you are in denial that humanity has exceeded the carrying capacity of it’s natural environment, largely subsidized by the extraction of irreplaceable natural resources at a phenomenal rate, while ignoring the consequences, I suggest you are bargaining.

          As for your suggestion that I may be one of those “who have a vested interest in seeing things collapse sooner rather than later”, I would submit that whether or not I do is irrelevant. Our continuation as a species may depend on it. The continuation of many other species certainly does, which is something I maintain a vested interest in. Too early? Too late for many of your fellow earthlings. In that sense I’ll posit we all have a vested interest in seeing things collapse sooner rather than later…. as I cancelled my divorce from the natural world some time back.

          “…and long may mean you won’t live to see anything substantial that validates a collapse.”

          I’ve seen little that validates the idiocy by which we justify our current behaviour.

          And, yes, I see Detroit’s demise as a knock-on effect of overshoot. Whether or not Detroit can be reborn is debatable. Sea level rise and global warming may well make the location more attractive as people are forced to migrate away from the coasts and as more southern locations heat up. The possibility that Detroit could be the ‘beneficiary’ of our adaptation to the mess we’ve made is something I’ve considered.

          • Carol Newquist July 22, 2013 at 12:41 pm #

            And, yes, I see Detroit’s demise as a knock-on effect of overshoot.

            The demise of Detroit’s former glory, if it can be called that, is the result of arbitrage, not overshoot. I don’t deny overshoot, but I’m not convinced we’re in overshoot….not yet. Of course, if this pace continues and nothing changes, we will hit a wall in relation to natural resources, but the operative phrase there is “nothing changes.” There are too many variables to say how it will all play out. In the meantime, Detroit will reformulate itself.

        • Skye July 23, 2013 at 9:44 am #

          Is economics a science? Or is that a joke? Sorry – different background, I might not get the humour!

  14. beantownbill. July 22, 2013 at 10:52 am #

    I wonder if Detroit is the first domino to fall in JHK”s thesis of a return to a world made by hand, or is it the chrysalis of an emerging 21st century post-post-modern civilization?

    This old techno-triumphalist (to use JHK’s terminology) is planning to observe with interest in his remaining time on Earth which scenario will.play out. You know where my heart lies, but Jim could be correct.

    Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

  15. Bukko Canukko July 22, 2013 at 10:57 am #

    I look forward to driving through the ruins of Detroit later this year, before I exit North America and re-immigrate to Australia. My mom lives near Washington, D.C. I want to see her one last time, but I refuse to fly within the fascist “Take off your shoes! NOW!!! Don’t look at me cross-eyed or I’ll make you miss your plane and maybe throw you in lock-up for a couple days” U.S. airport SSeKKKurity system. So when I visit, I fly to somewhere in eastern Canada (still a relatively free country) then rent a car and drive to D.C. Slower, more expensive and more dangerous than airline travel, but it’s a price I’m willing to pay rather than submit sheep-like to authoritarianism. Plus it’s cool to re-visit areas where I used to live. I reckon next time, I’ll land in Toronto, head west through Windsor, and do some Unhappy Motoring through Detritus — I mean, Detroit. During the daytime. With the windows rolled up. And with an escape route mapped into my GPS unit.

    • outOfTheMoney July 22, 2013 at 12:03 pm #

      If it doesn’t interfere with your GPS’s audible prompting, you might consider using Dire Straits’ epic 14-minute “Telegraph Road” as an appropriate soundtrack for your drive.

      I’ve read that Mark Knopfler got the idea for it around 1980, on a bus trip through suburban Detroit (along the eponymous road, natch). He was reading Knut Hamsun’s Growth of the Soil and the sweep of history represented by that road just fell into place. So the man said, anyway.

    • wisewebwoman July 22, 2013 at 12:42 pm #

      Can totally relate to this fascist regime that now passes for democracy. I was trapped in Newark in the Homeland Security offices for 2 hours for no other reason in that I carried two passports. I make sure I don’t land in any USian airport in my travels now even though it can take twice as long to get to Europe from here.

    • ozone July 23, 2013 at 9:26 am #

      I will be most interested in your observations. Please keep us apprised as you can!

  16. carstars July 22, 2013 at 11:22 am #

    Oil at $108 while back in stock market heaven the averages reach for yet a new all time high.

  17. truthhammer July 22, 2013 at 11:30 am #

    Detroit has 30 billion dollars worth of artwork. http://youtu.be/xnvb5O9rRUQ

    • anti dod July 22, 2013 at 8:13 pm #

      And 400,000? illiterates. X # of felons. Do 90% of the murders go unsolved?

  18. Elrond Hubbard July 22, 2013 at 11:34 am #

    I live in Windsor, Ontario, just across the border from Detroit, so I’ve been witness to the city’s decline my whole life. Yesterday I took the tunnel across the river to see what things were like in the aftermath of the bankruptcy. Life seemed to be going on pretty much as normal — which is to say, downtown Detroit was basically empty.

    There being no destinations downtown I cared to investigate that day, I headed down the freeway a bit to find myself in a suburban shopping plaza built over top of an old landfill. The place was an archipelago of big-box retail outlets spaced at colossal distances from one another across desolate seas of asphalt. There is simply no practical way to reach it, or once there to do something as simple as go across the way for a bite to eat, without an automobile. God alone knows if that location will ever see a meaningful human use again after the retail venture inevitably fails in the next ten to twenty years. Perhaps it will simply return to primordial prairie and not be built on again, occasionally vomiting up an old milk jug or ruined baby carriage in the spaces where pavement used to be.

    Returning to the city, there were encouraging signs of life at a popular restaurant not far from the vaunted Michigan Central Station. The old established neighbourhood, though, came to an abrupt halt where a great knife had cut through it and left behind a canyon of interstate and newly expanded border infrastructure. Finally, I made my way to Belle Isle, where crowds of people had congregated to take the air. That is to say, their cars were parked so thickly along both sides of the ring road that circles the park that it was hardly possible to get out and reach the shoreline. The delight to the senses that was a really splendid summer afternoon was complemented by the flashing of rims and thumping of booty bass from passing SUVs.

    Such a lovely jewel of a place is Belle Isle, and so desperate is the city of Detroit’s need for cash, that there is talk of closing the island off to the public, declaring it a “free-enterprise zone” and leasing it to corporate oligarchs as a private fiefdom free of taxes or any other form of civic engagement. That would certainly be in line with the overall abdication of public responsibility exhibited in the past three decades or so of American life. I await the ultimate outcome of the experiment with morbid interest.

  19. bettybarcode July 22, 2013 at 11:57 am #

    Call it “gardening” if you wish, but JHK’s hostility to the repurposing of urban prairie for the production of food or other horticultural crops is a strange blind spot, to say the least.

    A hundred years ago, plenty of cities had functioning farms and dairies within their municipal borders and no one thought it was a symptom of confused modern thinking. The small upstate city that I grew up in lost its last farm in the 1980s.

    Detroit and other cities suffering from disinvestment and depopulation have more land than people to occupy it. Given his insightful arguments against “green space,” the knee-jerk tendency to turn all vacant urban land into pointless parks, just more grass on welfare, what else is Detroit supposed to do?

    • Janos Skorenzy July 22, 2013 at 12:27 pm #

      Great point. Why do the boundaries of our cities and lives have to be so stark? Jim himself has said there will be convenience stores on every 3rd corner or so – which will call for a big change in zoning laws.

      And what is holding back the small farm revolution? The price of land. And where is the cheapest, fertile land to be found? In the cities.

    • ghostlimb July 23, 2013 at 4:39 am #

      I’ve always interpreted JHK’s comments about urban gardens vs. farms to be – gardens in and about the urban core, farms in the outer bandwidth… of which Detroit has incredible bandwidth… especially since farms imply farm animals, fertilizer runoff, smell, dust clouds, etc. – all the usual aspects of larger scale growing operations… unsuitable to close-in urban fabric – his argument is a transect delineation imho.
      Much of the former neighborhood land is toxic – residues of arsenic, asbestos, and other bothersome ingredients… that’s why many community gardens are required to use raised beds to avoid soil contamination. And Detroit’s city governance has blocked any meaningful expansion of the urban agriculture ordinances – plus, the organic urban growers in Detroit protest any proposed large-scale operation as competitive to their turf.

    • Nastarana July 23, 2013 at 9:08 am #

      James Kunstler has a number of such blind spots, mainly having to do with boring, self-reliant WASPS and others in the present time, as opposed to some made by hand future, presuming to do things themselves which compromise the ability of his friends and relations to make as much money as possible before the crisis hits.

  20. dryadsdad July 22, 2013 at 12:09 pm #

    One thing Jim tends to ignore in his many comments about the collapse of our society is what will happen to all those people who become redundant.

    No, I”m not buying they will all be small farmers or artisans because those professions take a great deal of skill which these former welfare takers or office workers lack.

    Assuming Jim is perfectly accurate in his forecast, I can’t see us going from the current population to a low energy using population count without a great deal of disruption. Leaving that out of the discussion is, IMO, a major omission.

    In fact, I do think Jim once labeled this excess population the ‘yeast people’. However, unlike yeasts, I doubt humans will subside into eternity peacefully.

    • Nastarana July 23, 2013 at 9:12 am #

      “those professions take a great deal of skill” is why many of us are beginning NOW to learn useful skills. Besides, learning a new useful skill is a challenge worthy of ones time and attention.

  21. Crue July 22, 2013 at 12:12 pm #

    Sorry, but I think you’re wrong about cities like NYC. Not only will NYC not die as liquid motor fuels become more dear, but the city will probably expand….according to the Census, it’s already doing so.

    New York City, as well as some other coastal cities, have advantages that artificial cities, like Vegas or Phoenix, don’t have, never had, and never will have.

    NYC is a maritime city with one of the finest natural harbors in the world. NYC grew into a major city, with a pop of 1.5 million, during the age of sail. NYC is located on a navigable river that goes far upstate. The Erie canal linking NYC to the Midwest still exists, and still functions.

    NYC predates the motor car, it’s a city with a well developed and extensive mass transit system. Owning a car in most parts of NYC is a liability.

    NYC is near well developed and functional rail hubs. The only operational high-speed passenger rail service (high-speed by US standards) passes through NYC. Despite what Gov Fat-Fuck of New Jersey says, new rail tunnels are coming to NYC/Jersey, whether he likes it or not. BTW, there is a brand new…not a reactivated old line…..of trolley service being built on the Jersey side of the river as I type this. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson%E2%80%93Bergen_Light_Rail

    NYC has plenty of potable water, A new water tunnel is near completion giving the city a total of three tunnels bring in water from upstate. The entire system operates on gravity, no pumps are required.

    High density cities like NYC are the most energy efficient, many times more than the X-burbs.

    Still not convinced? Despite the continued depression, property values in NYC, and Hudson County NJ, are on the way up. According to recent Census numbers, for the first time since the end of WWII, the percentage of white people residing in Manhattan is actually increasing. Not only is it increasing, but the people moving in are highly skilled and educated, in their prime working years.

    It’s the xburbs that are finished, as are cities built in deserts and southern swamps.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 22, 2013 at 12:34 pm #

      Thanks for last and honest point. It’s White people who make the Cities. The rest are just burdens. Your other points make sense too. We are moving towards a European model where the good real estate is the inner city with the crime and minorities in the suburbs. It’s a relatively new trend but it’s clear in places like Washington, New York, San Francisco, etc. But these islands of civilization will be hard pressed by the barbarians and will need to keep up their police forces – and/or begin to build walls.

      • Crue July 22, 2013 at 12:57 pm #

        My observations are not intended to be racist at all, but the fact remains that we are now beginning to see reverse white-flight out of some suburban areas. Make of that what you will.

        • Janos Skorenzy July 22, 2013 at 1:35 pm #

          Can a fact (like Black Terror) be racist?

    • sharpfarmer July 22, 2013 at 6:22 pm #

      The city as a whole is more energy efficient on a per capita basis but where is the food going to come from? I’m on the PA/NJ border and there is a endless flood of trucks at night heading into NYC to deliver goods from all the warehouses in these cheap parts.

      At least in my suburban lot I can grow a fair amount of food. 50 potatoes plants only takes 250 square feet or so and yields of ton of potatoes. What are people going to grow in NYC on their balconies?

      We’re all just screwed…suburbs, exurbs, city dwellers. Each area will have its own set of insurmountable problems.

      • Nastarana July 23, 2013 at 9:15 am #

        Market gardening–why do you think NJ was called The Garden State?–is far more productive per unit of inputs, such as water, fertilizer, etc, than the abomination which is factory farming.

    • Ghung July 23, 2013 at 4:21 pm #

      “Sorry, but I think you’re wrong about cities like NYC. Not only will NYC not die as liquid motor fuels become more dear, but the city will probably expand…”

      WTF? Where do you think they’re going to keep putting their garbage? Jersey? Keep dumping it in the ocean?! Send it to Haiti, perhaps? Maybe they’ll build seawalls with it. Ah… burn it! that’ll fix the problem.

  22. Carol Newquist July 22, 2013 at 12:44 pm #

    One thing Jim tends to ignore in his many comments about the collapse of our society is what will happen to all those people who become redundant.

    Well, WHEN the cheap energy spigot runs dry, they will make useful farm labor, won’t they?

    • Nastarana July 23, 2013 at 9:18 am #

      The authoritarian, totalitarian bias rears its ugly head again.

      The promise of American life was that you could own and work your OWN farm, of modest and sustainable size, not that a few could operate vast latifundiae from a distance.

      • ozone July 23, 2013 at 9:49 am #

        N.,
        You must remember that “carol’s” self-professed ‘sphere of influence’ is the monied elite. The Earth and the desperate multitudes know well the sting of their lash and boundless appetites.

  23. Q. Shtik July 22, 2013 at 1:12 pm #

    Anyone with half a brain whose life (like mine) was nestled up close to the auto industry and its union workers and their platinum plated and diamond encrusted perks, especially their health bennies, knew they were observing something destined to fail.

    My father-in-law with his 8th grade education worked the assembly lines for 35+ years. He retired early, bought a home in Toms River, NJ near “the shore,” bought the dark blue Lincoln Town Car he had always yearned for under the “Z Plan” (i.e. cheaper than YOU could ever buy it) but died suddenly at a respectable 75 years of age before having the opportunity of becoming a real drain on the system like so many others.

    His spouse, my mother-in-law (currently 91.2 yrs old) is at this moment on the third floor of my home in air conditioned comfort with her big flat screen hi-def TV, her first rate health care and those pension checks that keep rolling in like clockwork.

    I personally want to thank all of you, but especially Asoka and Carol, for your role in bailing out the car companies and, by extension, providing my m-i-l the sweet life such as it is at age 91. Thank you.

  24. James Kuehl July 22, 2013 at 1:31 pm #

    Mr. Kunstler somehow recognizes the story arc well before the final act. Most enlightening. The economists’ burden is devotion to data. The history of human civilization is less a ledger than it is a collection of stories, increasingly about how we screw ourselves at every opportunity.

    The small cities of upstate New York have been in slow decay for decades. When Elliot Spitzer was governor for a short spell, he was in the limo and looked up from whatever intern was in his lap and commented that it looked like coal country in West Virginia. Turns out the fortunate communities will be those remote from the Interstate trap.

    • ozone July 23, 2013 at 9:58 am #

      Trenchant observation; thanks for that.

      Will it ever be ‘legal’ for bicycles to use the breakdown lanes of the major highways? (Not until they’re useless for motor transport or motor transport is very sparse, I’d surmise.)

      Ike has the interstates built to move the military quickly around the FUSA. “Close to the highway” might be the new metric of “victim of organized violence and extortion”.

      • ozone July 23, 2013 at 10:01 am #

        (Oops: “Ike HAD”)

        • James Kuehl July 23, 2013 at 3:05 pm #

          Ozone,
          The Interstates killed upstate NY cities like Binghamton, Elmira, Syracuse, and Rochester. They moved all the cash registers out to the big-box drive-in mess at the interchanges. Next, they demolish all the affordable retail buildings and put huge sports complexes and parking structures in these prime parcels. Now they wonder why there is no vibrant downtown culture.

          Conversely, little places like Nearby Watkins Glen has a nicely scaled downtown, plenty of running water, good farmland nearby, and is on the former Erie Canal (I predict a comeback). Now considered a backwater left out of the latest boom, it may well prove to have escaped a disaster.

          • ozone July 24, 2013 at 7:53 am #

            Yes, it’s also a place of great natural beauty! (Been there several times in the glorious height of summer.)

            Never witnessed the NASCAR wonders there, however. I suppose the track could be ground up and re-purposed for endurance harness racing.

            From what you say, it looks like it’s good to be a neglected backwater (as long as you’ve got the ‘water’ part). ;o)

  25. Carol Newquist July 22, 2013 at 1:36 pm #

    but died suddenly at a respectable 75 years of age

    We can only hope you’ll do the same. We’re counting the days. Two years to go. Yes, they’ll be two long, torturous years, but at least there’s light at the end of this tunnel.

    By the way, I didn’t support the bail-out of anything at anytime. What you fail to see is that the government is a division of the corporations. That was the reason for the bail-out. It was about the bondholders and shareholders, not union employee pensions. The former execs who granted those concessions knew full well they would never pay that deferred compensation. They took the profits in real-time and deferred the union benefits knowing they’d never pay it. And the union rubes still fall for it to this very day. Never agree to deferred compensation. Take it now, because it won’t be available later.

  26. Carol Newquist July 22, 2013 at 1:51 pm #

    is at this moment on the third floor of my home

    Your home has three floors? You big, fucking, hypocritical pig. You’re the reason for Overshoot. Ghung, if you want a definition of Overshoot, see Q Schmuck. That’s all you need to know.

    My stately home has three floors
    Just as many, plus ten, doors
    So much space
    In this rat race
    Whilst Charmin boxes house the poor

  27. BackRowHeckler July 22, 2013 at 1:54 pm #

    We had a neighbor at our place in Sebastian, FL, a cop who retired from the Detroit PD at the age of 43. He spent most of his time cruising around the inland waterway in his Yacht, fishing. His pension was so good he didn’t have to work anymore.

    –BRH

    • beantownbill. July 22, 2013 at 2:48 pm #

      Hey, Marlin, I’ve stayed at the Disney resort in Vero Beach several times, which is real close to Sebastian. I’ve eaten at a few good restaurants along route 1 in Sebastian. Have you ever eaten at Mo-Bay? I liked that place.

      • BackRowHeckler July 22, 2013 at 3:03 pm #

        Mo-bay, yes. Many times. We used to go over to Vero to watch the Dodgers spring training games. Dodger Town. I loved that place.

    • anti dod July 22, 2013 at 8:03 pm #

      Retire after 20 years?

  28. piltdownman July 22, 2013 at 2:04 pm #

    Well, apparently Jim (and the rest of us) are just flat out wrong! I mean, it’s in the Times today…

    http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2013/07/22/technology/22reuters-column-kemp-peak-oil.html?pagewanted=1&hp

  29. janet July 22, 2013 at 2:39 pm #

    Well, apparently Jim (and the rest of us) are just flat out wrong!

    Um, not all of the “rest of us” ….

    “Malthus, Jevons, Beal, Hubbert, the authors of Limits to Growth, Hirsch and the modern peak-oilers all failed to see how technology was already changing the world even as they wrote, and would alter it beyond recognition within just a few years. We are likely to hear much less about food and fuel running out, at least for a little while. But if the past is anything to go by, sometime in the 2020s or 2030s, as memories fade, fears about resource scarcity will be resurrected, in another subtle variation on an old theme. When they do, commentators would do well to remember predictions about food and fuel scarcities have come and gone in waves for almost 250 years – and been proved wrong repeatedly.

    Thanks for the link. Nothing to see here. Move along.

  30. Carol Newquist July 22, 2013 at 3:18 pm #

    I’m pretty sure

    An example of no spine. Either you’re sure, or you’re not. “Pretty sure” is a spineless expression.

    I bet the priests at St Joe’s gave oral exams for your finals, didn’t they? Figures. And you obviously passed with flying colors. You’d do anything to make a lousy buck. Nothing’s changed.

    • BackRowHeckler July 22, 2013 at 3:36 pm #

      Where is Mayor Young when we need him? They don’t make mayors like that anymore.

    • alpha mail July 22, 2013 at 4:30 pm #

      You’re being a little tough on the ol Q.Shtik here, Carol. His son Thom is having a tough time of it. It might not be long before Thom, his wife, and the baby have to move in with Q, the wife, and gramma. If you’ll recall, Thom almost got his ass whupped in West Philly when approached by a street rat for some cash. Philly ain’t what it used to be either, ya know.

      • Carol Newquist July 22, 2013 at 4:47 pm #

        Philly ain’t what it used to be either, ya know.

        I hear ya. We need another movement like Move. They knew how to confront the establishment, and of course, the establishment handed them their asses.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-3BzrSVK0g

        Still, there’s Pagano’s, but it’s not what it used to be either. IMO, it was the best cheese steak for the money. They loaded it up with beef. No skimping. I could never finish the whole thing. Certainly couldn’t now.

        • Carol Newquist July 22, 2013 at 4:59 pm #

          And speaking of mayors, they don’t make them like Mayor Rizzo any longer.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HWHhev-aag

          Holy Shit!! I laughed so hard at this clip, I almost shit my britches. Yeah, Philly ain’t what it used to be.

          • Ghung July 22, 2013 at 6:56 pm #

            Jeez, those tough guys are dumb. My uncle, a well known Atlanta politician (RIP) would have had those guys up for lunch, invited them to Augusta for the weekend,, maybe even put’em on the payroll.

        • alpha mail July 22, 2013 at 6:02 pm #

          Philly ain’t what it used to be. It used to be a very segregated city prior to WWII. In Collingswood, NJ, just outside of Philly, it used to be all white. Now it’s pretty much a majority of blacks. Q grew up there in the ’40s, before graduating St. Joes on City Line Avenue in ’62. So part of what Philly waws about back then looks very different now. Since Q lives very close to Rutgers, no doubt he’s seeing the changing face of Jersey up close and real personal.

          • Carol Newquist July 22, 2013 at 6:26 pm #

            Yeah, I know all that. And? What’s your point? Things change. You move on, adapt, or get run over. Do you think I’m going to feel sorry for him? If he and those like him had brains and spines, they wouldn’t be lamenting a bygone era right now.

      • alpha mail July 22, 2013 at 5:03 pm #

        Shoulda been “babies”. Q specifically said there were two babies. Sequestration sucks big time. But still, losing 20% of one’s salary shouldn’t be enough to land someone in the poor house. Sounds like Thom might have got over extended, what with the huge mortgage payment. I say it’s best to remain frugal. Contrary to what all the realtors say, now is not the time to buy. When interest rates are low, it’s a terrible time to buy.

    • Skye July 23, 2013 at 9:55 am #

      You’re mean, Carol!

  31. Carl Grimes July 22, 2013 at 3:36 pm #

    One of the things that seem to get overlooked about Detroit and other formally l industrial cities, is how bad trade policy has been. Free trade and the global economy destroyed the American industrial base America’s great industry was built during a time of high tariffs. High tariffs were a major part of Reublican policy for decades. The libertarians are still at it, still spouting the same bullshit abuit freedom and markets, they fit in very well in this country, they never learn a thing. It never matters how many times they’ve been proven wrong.

    • outsider July 22, 2013 at 10:58 pm #

      Carl, seems to me that, as the US has continued to dissolve, the views of Pat Buchanan have proven to be prescient. He has long advocated tariffs to protect our industries, and has been against US aggression in all Mideast wars, dating back to Bush the Elder’s first Gulf War. I’m sure that Pat and JHK don’t agree on much, but they share the view that the US is falling apart. I highly recommend Pat’s latest, “Suicide of a Superpower,” which got him fired from the Obama network – MSNBC.

  32. thoren July 22, 2013 at 3:52 pm #

    HI all :
    About two dozen years of my life were as a Detroiter. Watching the city knifed by the colon polyps of the legislature. The truest of swine gluttony . I came back from seeing my daughter there. She is fleeing to California soon The old Wood bridge area of carpenter crafted homes still stands more or less intact . As a trained researcher -labor studies and a UAW kid, I saw the 73 oil embargo effects immmediately . As a mass of burger hole gluttony the burbs were always too happy to politcally knife alternate transits and such . MY rage about Detroit takes to form of devil’s night ‘lightning ‘soon coming to the burbs. Already some . They deserve burning as Detroit suffered . And they are plucked over by black market metal vultures. All they ever deserved , really .The black market of forclosed homes stripped is as much economic activity as many things in Michigan.. In energy moronic state , Pontiac also as it is in the State’s clutches . The crushing python of consequences. MY tears about Detroit exclude Michigan and the lawn barons of the burbs. Let them starve and sleep cold in November rains. Arson is a emerging sport in Michigan. As Mad Max came to life in my Detroit and Michigan . it was chilling as a reality. Back in the early 70’s I rejected swine living of the burbs. I never regretted that choice. And isn’t it interesting to be the black hole that ate the world’s economy . I grew up near Green field Village. And “Hank’ ( Ford ) must have felt self betrayed. The idiot use of his invention ate his world . The Edison lab there is more interesting as it was the manger of light
    Still James and all- I would not discount urban farming : my suggestion about semi-sunken urban green houses got me laughed at at the Detroit Housing Commission as I worked there also . Destruction by neglect and by GOP parakeets .Cloud dwellers I call them . The swine filth of the State remains an unexecuted murderer . Just a sure as a gun lead head .
    May the smug bastard burbies awake to flames
    Thoren .

  33. announcerguy1 July 22, 2013 at 3:55 pm #

    Interesting perspective:

    http://youtu.be/vksNRNg4-aA

  34. alpha mail July 22, 2013 at 4:21 pm #

    The era of big cities, like Detroit, being huge centers of commerce and manufacturing has ended. The rise of the Internet means that businesses are no longer tied to specific locations. Cities like New York, San Francisco, and Boston are becoming more like theme parks than industrial centers now. As we continue to move our manufacturing base to China and Vietnam, unskilled workers no longer have jobs in our communities. This is why there are so many black dispossessed young black males who are unable to secure a decent paying job. Hence, we see just how many “I am Trayvon” people out there. Many people, particularly our youth, have limited prospects for employment outside of drug dealing.

    With the increase of robotics, technology is displacing more and more workers. The industries that do a lot of the hiring today depend on tech savy workers who know how to streamline production and eliminate unnecessary steps in a manufacturing model. Consider that today one can purchase a computer program for a modest price that virtually elimates the work that a company might have had to pay a full time accountant for thirty five years ago. At the supermarket, the items that you purchase can be scanned (by you, if it’s self checkout- something that will eventually replace the need for cashiers) and sends a direct report to deduct whatever product you purchased from the store inventory AND generates a re-order for that product. Think for a moment how much labor, and jobs, this eliminates.

    The workers who manage to hold on to their jobs are becoming increasingly agitated at the “non-productive” class, which sits around waiting for its next welfare check. There was a story I found recently about a woman who had 3 “baby daddies” who had no less than 15 children. She was put out of her two bedroom apartment when the landlord discovered this. The 37 year old woman complained that “somebody needs to pay for me and my kids.” No mention of where the fathers of these kids were. Expect to see some fireworks in the years ahead as the people who still manage to hang on to their jobs decide to cut off the welfare rolls. Grab some popcorn.

  35. Carol Newquist July 22, 2013 at 4:22 pm #

    I remember reading a comment on some blog that asserted it was just a matter of time until Zimmerman killed again because he was a murderer. Instead, the exact opposite has happened. The cognitive dissonance is going to be so thick, you can cut it with a knife.

    http://gma.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-emerged-hiding-truck-crash-rescue-174553647–abc-news-topstories.html

    George Zimmerman, who has been in hiding since he was acquitted of murder in the death of Trayvon Martin, emerged to help rescue a family who was trapped in an overturned vehicle, police said today.

    Zimmerman was one of two men who came to the aid of a family of four — two parents and two children — trapped inside a blue Ford Explorer SUV that had rolled over after traveling off the highway in Sanford, Fla. at approximately 5:45 p.m. Thursday, the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office said in a statement.

    The crash occurred at the intersection of I-4 and route Route 46, police said. The crash site is less than a mile from where Zimmerman shot Martin.

    By the time police arrived, two people – including Zimmerman – had already helped the family get out of the overturned car, the sheriff’s office said. No one was reported to be injured.

    Zimmerman was not a witness to the crash and left after speaking with the deputy, police said.

    It’s the first known sighting of Zimmerman since he left the courtroom following his acquittal last week on murder charges for the death of Martin. Zimmerman, 29, shot and killed Martin, 17, in Sanford, Fla., on Feb. 26, 2012. The jury determined that Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 22, 2013 at 4:41 pm #

      The man has apparently “committed” countless acts of service and kindness – many towards the Black Race. The attempt to crucify this man is an indictment of our Country, Media, and the Obama Administration. And to do this, of course they had to claim he was White.

      And Liberal Fools still prate of White Privilege…

      • anti dod July 22, 2013 at 8:00 pm #

        Zim was that naive, obama voting, registered Democrat.

    • Nastarana July 23, 2013 at 9:25 am #

      Zimmerman, like so many today, would seem to be a troubled soul seeking redemption. For the sake of his own salvation as well as the safety of those around him, he probably ought not to carry a weapon again for the foreseeable future.

      My point remains that if you are providing security–can we please dispense with the fantasy of him being a volunteer–you need to know and be able to recognize each and every resident and long term guest in the compound or neighborhood you are guarding.

  36. lpat July 22, 2013 at 5:40 pm #

    Purely coincidental to the news items about Detroit, a good friend I’m helping with his family tree showed me the 1940 census for his maternal grandfather, who was a professional wrestler. He and family were staying in an apartment building at 92 Hendrie in Detroit. There were other wrestlers, wrestling promoters, cashiers, entertainers and, of course, automotive workers staying there. The address is close to the river, in the middle of the damnedest tangle of concrete spaghetti interstates I’ve ever seen. In google street view, three hundred sixty degrees of emptiness.

    I’d say that not just Detroit, but all the cities which were the industrial jewels strung out along the Great Lakes, are not canaries. More like gangrenous–non-expendable–limbs.

    Some of the talk I’ve heard indicates that Detroit, unlike Chicago or Pittsburg, say, just hasn’t made the right choices to resurrect itself.

    Makes me want to holler.

  37. janet July 22, 2013 at 6:50 pm #

    “When you talk to visionaries in Detroit (Peter Karmanos, Roger Penske, and Dan Gilbert to name a few), they’ll tell you there’s no question mark of what’s to become of this area. Greatness isn’t a debate – it’s destiny. They believe in it wholeheartedly so they see the full vision as clearly as a crystal ball. Because of this clear result in mind, it’s simply a matter of playing the chess game backwards to manifest their bold vision. Dreams should big and bold, not restricted. Remember – you’ll see it when you believe it.

    If Rocky Balboa punched meat carcasses to get in fighting shape, you can get off the couch and make it happen. Throw punches like the underdog and you might just take a lesson from America’s Comeback Kid – my hometown, the ever-surprising, chameleon of a city, Detroit.” –Josh Linkner

    • ozone July 23, 2013 at 10:08 am #

      Uh, Josh? I do hate to break this to you, but that Rocky Balboa guy was a fictional character IN A MOVIE!!

      Christ on a cracker, this is the best we can do? (I don’t make it a habit to take lessons from deluded idiots; it just ain’t safe.)

  38. Carol Newquist July 22, 2013 at 7:23 pm #

    All this Detroit and Philly talk has me thinking….and researching. I have found the conventional explanations of urban decay and decline to be lacking. In researching. I’ve run across the following and thought I would share. It’s not for the faint of heart. This fella throws the kitchen sink and then some at it, but damn if there isn’t some though-provoking truth in some of what he says. He even talks about the Catholics of the Philadelphia area and their anti-democratic ways. In particular, the Polish Catholics. Wow!

    http://www.culturewars.com/CultureWars/Archives/cw_recent/ethniccleansing.html

    I’m saying now not only that the white flight/white racism story isn’t trueóhistory has proved thatóI’m saying this story is a deliberately manufactured lie similar to the assertion that the PHA had no intention of blowing up the East Falls Projects, manufactured to cover up something much more sinister, namely, the American version of ethnic cleansing. Integration is another word for ethnic cleansing. Race, as Lenin recognized when he invited Claude McKay to the Third Interntional in Moscow in 1922, was always the best vehicle for overturning the social order in America. In the hands of the liberal elite after World War II, racial politics combined with the sexual revolution was seen as the ultimate solution to what Paul Blanshard and his friends were calling the “Catholic Problem.” Since Catholic political power was concentrated in ethnic neighborhoods in the big cities of the north, the ethnic cleansing of those neighborhoods in the name of racial “integration” meant the dispersal of Catholic ethnics throughout the suburbs and the end of Catholics as a significant political forceóthe goal of all ethnic cleansing whether here or in Bosnia. Segregation is a word that first got used by people like Paul Blanshard with regard to religion and not race; segregated schools in the parlance of the liberal elite referred not to race but religion. The first “integration” problem, according to Professor John T. McGreevy of Harvard University’s department of history, was the problem posed by Catholic separatism:

    The author also wrote the following book: The Slaughter of Cities: Urban Renewal as Ethnic Cleansing

    http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/1587317753

    • Nastarana July 23, 2013 at 9:02 am #

      Quite an interesting article. Thank you for the link. It is nice to see you making yourself useful.

  39. janet July 22, 2013 at 7:25 pm #

    Hey, why aren’t all you Tea Party and Conservatives and Constitutionalists and States’ Rightists defending the Michigan State Constitution? Now is the time you should be DEFENDING DETROIT.

    “This is a very important issue,” Judge Aquilina said. “I understand that there may be this question of moving it to federal court. … But these are state issues. We’re dealing with the state constitution and an emergency manager who is a product of the state legislation.” The city’s emergency manager, Kevyn Orr, filed for Chapter 9 bankruptcy in federal court Thursday, and Detroit became the largest city government ever to declare bankruptcy.

    Aquilina ruled last week that the bankruptcy filing violated the state constitution.

    “As you all know, my decision last week was because there’s been a violation of constitution. I don’t believe the constitution should be made of swiss cheese,” she said.

  40. Pucker July 22, 2013 at 7:34 pm #

    JHK’s surreal account of the Detroit wasteland reminded me of the 1971 movie “The Omega Man”.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiNY3anKBa4

  41. anti dod July 22, 2013 at 7:59 pm #

    alternativeright.com
    Over the past 30 years, we have been subjected to an unrelenting stream of national race traumas; for months at a time, each one becomes omnipresent: Rodney King , O.J. , Duke Lacrosse , The Jenna 6 , Tawanee Bradley , Paul Deen , various “hate crime” hoaxes on campus, etc

  42. janet July 22, 2013 at 8:36 pm #

    Last week was Zimmerman. This week is Detroit.

    The numbers don’t point to “health insurance” or “unionization” as the reason for the bankruptcy filing.

    The “city manager” did something illegal, unconstitutional, and has a court ruling enjoining him. There is something else going on. It is not racial. It is financial, political, and legal (illegal in this case).

    Michigan Governor Rick Snyder’s approval of the bankruptcy filing violated the Michigan Constitution. Where are all the “tea party patriots” who like to scream about government tyranny? Cat got your tongue?

    And the Constitutionalists? Why are they not screaming that governor cannot take actions that would violate constitutional protections for retirement benefits for public workers?

    • BleatToTheBeat July 22, 2013 at 8:40 pm #

      So, Hey, Janet!

      My great grandmother passed on to me the stories she heard about the “Great Irish Famine”.

      Dead people with grass stains around their mouths were ignored as the carriages of the rich rolled by.

      Sometimes there is no food for “other” reasons.

      God Save The Queen,

      Margaret Thatcher

      • ozone July 22, 2013 at 9:27 pm #

        So, Mags (old gal, old sport, old pip), does this mean we can have ourselves an Irish wake for Motown instead of a solemn requiem?
        It might bring in the tourists — good for ‘the economy’ and all that rot, eh what?

        • BleatToTheBeat July 22, 2013 at 9:39 pm #

          Strictly Black Tie. And I suppose that since you propose the quaint tradition of the Irish Wake (sniff)

          BYOB

          Of course there will be enhanced security, what with the newborn Royal Scion and all.

          Sincerely,

          Meg

          • ozone July 23, 2013 at 10:36 am #

            But of COURSE!
            lol
            Salutations, old g’ell!

  43. janet July 22, 2013 at 8:59 pm #

    Detroit shrunk. People were not there to pay taxes.

    A lowered tax base is what conservatives have been preaching for years. Detroit is a stand in for the USA.

    Conservatives want to “shrink” government, they want lower taxes. They want government to be small enough to “drown in your bathtub” (even when there are sufficient populations to pay taxes).

    OK, now you can see the results. This is what it looks like if you follow Republican economic policy: Deterioration. Bankruptcy.

    • BleatToTheBeat July 22, 2013 at 10:04 pm #

      Can I see the results?

      Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

      I have lived in the results for half of my life. Ever since that there Oil Embargo in 1973. Got Deetroit to the North, Chicago to the West, Cleveland to the East. That’s just life in the Rust, I mean, Corn Belt.

      So, why blame the Republicans? They’re just being….Evangelicals (???)

      I’m so confused…

      At least they haven’t used the Espionage Act nearly as often as those Demogoggles.

      Have they?

    • BleatToTheBeat July 22, 2013 at 10:39 pm #

      I gotta tell ya. As far as the visible results go, I just can’t wait to see what comes out of the ground around all of these former “industrial centers”….no….I meant “asphalt centers”….goddammit, that’s not right either….landfill centers…..Yeah! That’s the ticket!

      mmmm…..Asphalt Rhubarb.

      Dig in why doncha’

    • BleatToTheBeat July 22, 2013 at 10:51 pm #

      Hmmm….

      Where did all those people that used to live in Deeeeeeetroit go?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKrQ24QVVLI

  44. Q. Shtik July 22, 2013 at 9:15 pm #

    In Collingswood, NJ, just outside of Philly, it used to be all white. Now it’s pretty much a majority of blacks. – Alpha Mail

    Alpha, you have apparently paid close attention to a lot of personal stuff I’ve written but you’ve got some facts scrambled.

    First, I have 3 kids, 2 boys, then a girl. Thom (the second child) lives in West Philly but is not married and has no kids. (Numbers 1 and 3 are married.) Thom is shacked up (or, “in a relationship” as they call it today) with a woman…the one I am running a stock portfolio for because she knows nothing about finance, although I will give her credit for being a quick study.

    My first son is the one who works for the Govt and has the problem caused by the sequestration. The mortgage on his house is not “huge,” as you called it, but it is significant. When Ft Monmouth in NJ closed he had to move to Maryland or give up his Govt job so he moved. Thus he had to rent or buy a home. He bought but certainly nothing extraordinary.

    Two kids came along in rapid succession. This was deliberate. The first is 16 months old today. The second is 2 months and 3 weeks.

    As to myself, you are correct that I lived in Collingswood, NJ from 1940 till my mid 20s. Collingswood, as you stated was “all white.” I’m talking 100% for decades. I don’t think there was even one person of color in the high school or living within the boundary of this small town from at least 1926 when my father graduated from that school right up to, and beyond, 1958 when I graduated. I couldn’t tell you when people of color first entered the town and the school system but I just looked up current population figures and here they are. The town has 13,000+ people. The racial breakdown is:

    White 77.5%
    Hispanic 9.7%
    Black 8.5%
    Asian 2.2%
    Other 2.1%

    Interestingly the town has always been 100% dry.

    None of my kids are living “beyond their means.” The 20% sequestration paycut came like a bolt from the blue and if it extends beyond the Sept 30th end of the fiscal year it will be a real problem. Any one of the millions of Govt employees affected would tell you the same thing. It isn’t the end of the world but it’s a difficulty.

    To straighten out the misconceptions of the asshole “Carol”… I consider myself to have abandoned the Catholic religion in the midst of a mandatory novena during the break between the first and second semesters of my college freshman year. I am an atheist. Carol’s attempt to connect my personal beliefs about race and the world in general with Catholic thought are ludicrous (or, as Mike Tyson would say, “wudicrous.”)

    I have never personally had any problem with any person based on a difference of race, religion or national origin but in the past 5 years on this blog it has become apparent to me that growing up in all-white Collingswood and attending virtually all-white St Joe’s was essentially life in a dream world. I look at the pictures from that Camden HS prom with revulsion. The gap between black and white culture which I always assumed would eventually close, I now perceive as having grown from a gully to the Grand Canyon with zero sign of a reversal in sight.

    I hate politics, politicians, political pundits, and BIG Govt. I lean naturally toward the conservative.

    • BleatToTheBeat July 22, 2013 at 9:43 pm #

      Damn, Q. Hate is such a strong word.

      But if’n you really means it….

      Well then you’ll just LOVE this chick:

      http://www.findtheconversation.com/episode-33-priscilla-grim/

      • Q. Shtik July 22, 2013 at 10:03 pm #

        Sorry Bleat, I listened for 3 mins and couldn’t take it anymore. Never even got to the Grim chick.

    • Q. Shtik July 22, 2013 at 10:45 pm #

      Correction:

      is ludicrous

    • Janos Skorenzy July 22, 2013 at 11:19 pm #

      Atheism is taking rationality to an irrational degree. You don’t know there is no God. How could you? God will never reveal Himself to you if you spit in His face like this.

      Agnosticism is the rational stance.

      I apologize for Ozone’s outburst. His use of racial swear words indicates his lower class background. By championing the Negro side, he thinks he escapes from it. He’s wrong.

  45. Q. Shtik July 22, 2013 at 9:53 pm #

    OK, now you can see the results. This is what it looks like if you follow Republican economic policy: Deterioration. Bankruptcy. – Asoka

    OMG, have you ever seen such twisting of the facts?

    Detroit has had a Democratic mayor for the past 51 years and a black mayor for the past 39 years.

    As Mistified would say, “What is this, Opposite Day?”

    • BleatToTheBeat July 22, 2013 at 10:09 pm #

      And I suppose that off-shoring and union busting has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it.

      C’mon man. They were just factory workers.

  46. Pucker July 22, 2013 at 10:16 pm #

    Why is it pronounced “Dee Troit”?

    What does the word “Detroit” mean, anyway? It sounds French, like the word “croissant”, or the word “flambee”, or fromage.

    Detroit asks Obama for a bailout: “Where’s the Chedda?!” “Ou et le fromage?”

    Or as Detroit might say: “We’re outta Chedder!”

    “Je ne avec pas le fromage.”

    • BleatToTheBeat July 22, 2013 at 10:20 pm #

      Just so you know, they used to be the Ft. Wayne Pistons.

      And yeah, there are WAY too many Frog descendents in this part of the country.

      I tell ’em every chance I get.

      Cannuckland is just North of the “Big Waters”.

  47. Pucker July 22, 2013 at 10:19 pm #

    Fromage toute suite!

  48. Pucker July 22, 2013 at 10:20 pm #

    S’il vous plait…..

  49. Q. Shtik July 22, 2013 at 10:54 pm #

    I wondered about the pronunciation of Detroit too. I thought maybe it should sound like “Day-twah.” I never took French in school so I really have no basis for that.

  50. janet July 22, 2013 at 11:04 pm #

    Whites are to blame for Detroit’s problems. Between 2000 and 2010, Detroit lost a quarter of its population as the whites fled to the suburbs.

    That left Detroit with depressed property values, abandoned neighborhoods, empty buildings, lousy schools, and a dramatically-shrinking tax base because of white flight. They fled and took away the tax base. The money is still there in GREATER DETROIT — which includes the suburbs.

    GREATER DETROIT is among the nation’s top five financial centers, the top four centers of high-technology employment, and the second-biggest source of engineering and architectural talent.

    Not everyone is wealthy, to be sure, but the median household in the region earns close to $50,000 a year, and unemployment is no higher than the nation’s average.

    The median household in Birmingham, Michigan, just across the border that delineates the city of Detroit, earned more than $94,000 last year; in nearby Bloomfield Hills — still within the Detroit metropolitan area — the median was more than $150,000.

    SOURCE: Income inequality ruined Detroit by Robert Reich

    • jim e July 22, 2013 at 11:24 pm #

      Whites? “It’s fitting that Detroit is the first great American city to officially bite the dust, because it produced the means of America’s suicidal destruction: the automobile.”

    • BleatToTheBeat July 22, 2013 at 11:27 pm #

      Why don’t you ACTUALLY go visit the place and THEN post a comment.

      I’ll tell my relatives to be lookin’ for ya.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aK-UjR3Oj4

    • Janos Skorenzy July 22, 2013 at 11:28 pm #

      Mandela called the Whites who fled Black terror in South Africa, “cowards”. Blame the Victims in other words. Utterly despicable be here or in South Africa.

  51. janet July 23, 2013 at 12:06 am #

    “Why don’t you ACTUALLY go visit the place and THEN post a comment.”

    So one needs first-hand experience before posting? You posted on Zimmerman. When did you meet him? How long have you known him?

    • fugeguy July 23, 2013 at 12:07 pm #

      fix my mistakes please…

      …the other people are running out of money and sweat to cover your bad bets.

      —time to get off your azz and fix your own mistakes honey—

  52. janet July 23, 2013 at 12:23 am #

    Actually this situation in Detroit will be a good test of conservative Republican philosophy.

    People like Qshtik are always saying government is inefficient and wasteful and unnecessary because the private sector can do what government does and with less money.

    So let’s see if the private sector steps up to fight hunger in Detroit.

    Let’s see if the private sector steps up to provide at-risk girls and young women with mentoring, lessons in substance abuse prevention, counseling and shelter.

    Let’s see if the private sector steps up to tear down and fix up homes, cleans up dump sites and paints eyesores.

    Let’s see if the private sector steps up to provide EMS, police and firefighter needs that the city can not currently provide due to its current financial situation. (The total unserved needs of the three public safety branches is about $20 million but conservatives like Qshtik think private sector can handle that better than government).

    Let’s see if if the private sector steps up to establish clinics to provide for health care.

    You can be sure the whites who fled Detroit for the suburbs have their police, fire, EMS, education, health, etc. needs covered … the way they should be covered: through taxes to government agencies. If whites had not fled Detroit would still have a tax base and basic services would be provided.

    • Neon Vincent July 23, 2013 at 9:19 am #

      If by the “private sector” you mean the for-profit sector forget about it except for private security, which is already looking after enclaves like Indian Village, which one of the few places outside of Downtown and Midtown where wealthy people still live in Detroit. Then again, you know that already.

      If you were including the non-profit sector, which you probably weren’t, then they are trying to step up to fight hunger, mentor young women, and fix up homes. I have my students research sustainability-related charities in Detroit every semester and I’m amazed how how many high-quality charities there are here. In fact, Charity Navigator rates Detroit’s charities as better than those of New York and Washington, D.C. I’ll have to write up that research and post the link.

      Of course, they’re inadequate for the task even if they were the best charities in the country, and you know that, too. It won’t help that the middle class is shrinking, something that was predicted by Jeffrey Deffayes in “The End of Suburbia,” the film I’m showing my students this week. Like magic, one of the local TV stations examined this topic yesterday.

      http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/2013/07/wnwo-examines-shrinking-middle-class.html

    • juicyfruit July 23, 2013 at 11:52 am #

      the private capitalists already did not step up.

    • fugeguy July 23, 2013 at 12:08 pm #

      right spot this time-

      fix my mistakes please…

      …the other people are running out of money and sweat to cover your bad bets.

      —time to get off your azz and fix your own mistakes honey—

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 9:35 pm #

      The Govt should hire all unemployed people, pay them a minimum wage of $117/hr, provide them laptops and allow them to telecommute. Poof, zero % unemployment.

  53. Janos Skorenzy July 23, 2013 at 12:40 am #

    I was a Hidden Treasure and I loved to be known and so I created the world.

  54. Pucker July 23, 2013 at 2:59 am #

    It’s not pronounced “Dee Troyt”.

    It’s pronounced “Duh Twah”…..

  55. ghostlimb July 23, 2013 at 3:59 am #

    JHK made a remarkable comment during one of his podcasts to the effect of – if you were standing on a Detroit street corner in about 1912 (a pre-automobile city which, at the time, was the envy of the world – studied by Europeans for the modern, extensive streetcar system and great human proportions), and told the person next to you that in about 75 years after two Great Wars their city would look like war ruins – though not a shot was fired here… that person would consider you nuts – when in fact – the worst war torn cities of Germany were already rebuilt and Detroit looked like it had left the bombed-out areas intact.

  56. Being There July 23, 2013 at 6:28 am #

    Good post this week JHK,

    Yesterday at work, I listened to Dmitri Orlov on Guns and Butter:

    http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/93486

    Well worth listening to as Orlov describes USSR collapse and how quickly it happened. There as here, people never would have believed it could happen so soon. Like silent termites eating the infrastructure from within you notice decay eventually but you get used to it. At some point it all falls apart.

    It should be interesting to see what happens next in the global neoliberal paradigm. Will another country buy up Detroit for pennies on the dollar?

    We’ll have a good idea of what the game plan is by what the future of this city will be.

    Right now it’s about erasing the pensions: The promises made to those who worked there. This is a test case about how the rest of the social contract will be taken back. In the meantime when the genius Wall Streeters pull another 2008?–The are guaranteed by the people of the United States to get their promised bonuses.

    • BackRowHeckler July 23, 2013 at 11:31 am #

      In Detroit, where is the $$$ going to come from to pay these generous pensions? Certainly not from an expanding tax base.

  57. Carol Newquist July 23, 2013 at 8:10 am #

    We’ll have a good idea of what the game plan is by what the future of this city will be.

    Nah, I don’t think so. Like the Zimmerman trial, people will learn exactly zero from any of it. Instead, they’ll use it as yet another platform to cement their prejudices rather than think critically and objectively about the matter and learn. For example, I post a link to a unique alternative explanation for urban decay and decline in the U.S. and it’s largely ignored. That proves to me that the majority who post here aren’t interested in exploring uncharted intellectual waters, but rather prefer to parrot already formulated propaganda points. It’s pathetic, and it’s why I will never take any of you seriously.

    • Nastarana July 23, 2013 at 9:40 am #

      I have never taken you seriously. The link was interesting. You might want to have a look at the titles of some of prolific author
      Dr. Jones’ other books.

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 9:48 pm #

      “Carol’s” new obsession is the word “parrot” and its past tense “parroted.”

  58. Carol Newquist July 23, 2013 at 8:25 am #

    It’s not pronounced “Dee Troyt”.

    It’s pronounced “Duh Twah”…..

    It’s whatever the consensus wants it to be at the moment. Language can and does change. Look at the etymology of any word and you will see the vast majority of words undergo a significant metamorphosis in pronunciation from past to present.

    Of course, this focus on what you believe to be the proper pronunciation of the name of the city is racist innuendo. That’s Q Schmuck’s department, and now you seem to be usurping his job at this blog.

    If you know anything about history, you’d know that quite a few words emanate from black southern culture. David Hackett Fischer in Albion’s Seed: Four British Folkways in America (America a Cultural History) does a fantastic job of describing the historical contribution of various cultures to the over-arching culture witnessed today in the U.S. to include dialects and language.

    http://www.amazon.com/Albions-Seed-British-Folkways-Cultural/dp/0195037944/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

    • Janos Skorenzy July 23, 2013 at 1:17 pm #

      Your tactical shift to the right has been noted. Anything for a buck. And every knock is a boost.

  59. Tancred July 23, 2013 at 9:03 am #

    I have a hard time embracing one of JHK’s basic premises that technological innovation will reach some kind of tipping point and that human culture will lurch back to some “made by hand” Yankee Workshop. And I doubt I’m the only one that notes the irony that all his rhetoric is disseminated on the Intar-Webs; If he were to lead by example, he would be outside feeding his mule and tending to his garden. But I’m sure that he sees himself as the cultural canary in the coal mine, and that he has to embrace modern technology because everybody else does (just for now). I also think JHK errs in presenting the collapse of Detroit as some kind of model for his thesis regarding all cities. Epic mismanagement by a cabal of entitled politicians can do much to destroy a city. Cleveland, Gary, Detroit, Atlanta; they all have some demographic similarities, with poor governance being one of them. After last week’s piece that evoked race and rap, I’m surprised that JHK did not place the race card this week. I mean, were talking about Detroit here.

  60. bob July 23, 2013 at 9:33 am #

    America’s great military might has been exercised to bring democracy and freedom to far off lands. A lot of bloodshed and destruction is required on the path to freedom and democracy and often one ends up with a burned out city populated by a functionally illiterate population.

  61. cable guy July 23, 2013 at 9:51 am #

    How long, O Lord, how long? How long will the USA last? Will James live to see the collapse? Will any of us live to see it? I’m afraid it is going to outlast me.

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 10:08 am #

      Cable, your error is in thinking the collapse will resemble one of those controlled demolitions like when experts set off explosive charges in a big ‘ol Las Vegas hotel casino and it tumbles into a heap in a cloud of dust.

      More than likely it’ll take a long time and there’ll be no cloud of dust. But life will be much shittier then than now.

  62. Nastarana July 23, 2013 at 9:52 am #

    Really good column this week I love it when JK writes within his area of expertise and experience.

    About urban gardening: There are ways to detoxify contaminated ground. There are plants which take up toxic substances, sunflowers for example. Another good technique is to bury logs and tree branches in the soil to stimulate soil biota. Now, it might be advisable to cut off the flower heads before finches and other birds show up to eat the seeds. Addition of good compost, homemade, not the herbicide contaminated stuff sold in bags outside grocery stores, helps buffer some contaminates Raised beds should be made with bales of straw. The straw itself decays and adds organic material to the soil.

    • ozone July 23, 2013 at 10:50 am #

      I make mine with pine logs. But, logs I got. Straw for the prairie dwellers.

      • Nastarana July 23, 2013 at 5:36 pm #

        Straw bales are recommended by Bill Mollison specifically for contaminated urban soils. Use some of that foundation grant money to help support local farmers instead of buying lumber from HD, why not?

        • ozone July 24, 2013 at 8:03 am #

          Aha! Why not indeed? (Further, why don’t we stop supporting ALL the large extractive corps.[es] that are in the business of rapacious ‘growth’/suicide? There’s a good reason that their tentacles are entwined in damn-near everything.)

  63. Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 9:56 am #

    For example, I post a link to a unique alternative explanation for urban decay and decline in the U.S. and it’s largely ignored.

    Awww, poor “Carol” is in a snit because nobody gives a shit about the link “she” posted.

    Largely ignored?

    How about totally?

    It’s very difficult to pay any serious attention to someone who has relentlessly proven themselves to be a complete asshole.

  64. Carol Newquist July 23, 2013 at 10:02 am #

    It’s very difficult to pay any serious attention to someone who has relentlessly proven themselves to be a complete asshole.

    Exactly. This is why no one pays any attention to you. Me, on the other hand, I get more attention than I desire.

    I pay attention to you, but it’s not serious attention. I view you as a joke. You’re so preposterous, you cannot be real. If you are real, then I agree with JHK; collapse is imminent.

    • anti dod July 23, 2013 at 10:13 am #

      ‘I get more attention than I desire’. Yr comedy is unintended, but funny none the less.

      • Carol Newquist July 23, 2013 at 10:17 am #

        Not true. It’s fully intended. What a stupid-ass name you’ve chosen. You can’t get any more creative than that? And yet you have the nerve to criticize anyone, when you can’t come up with an original, creative thought? Get lost, you pipsqueak.

        • Nastarana July 23, 2013 at 5:40 pm #

          “stupid-a** name”?

          Mr. Kunstler, would like to run that by us again, about you will be banning offensive language? I am getting a tad bit confused about what the new rules are.

  65. Carol Newquist July 23, 2013 at 10:07 am #

    How long, O Lord, how long? How long will the USA last? Will James live to see the collapse? Will any of us live to see it? I’m afraid it is going to outlast me.

    That’s the million dollar question, but I surmise collapse will not be as many envision it to be, including JHK.

    Apparently those in positions of influence are currently formulating The Post-American World and there’s nothing you can do about it.

    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/05/21/books/obama-reads-533.jpg

  66. Carol Newquist July 23, 2013 at 10:13 am #

    More than likely it’ll take a long time and there’ll be no cloud of dust.

    So in the meantime, for shits and giggles, let’s poke fun at black diction to pass the time even though we don’t have a problem with race.

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 10:11 pm #

      OK, sounds like fun, I’ll go first.

      Why do many blacks say the word “kids” as though it had two syllables as in “Ah got 8 kee-uds but no husband.”

  67. Carol Newquist July 23, 2013 at 10:20 am #

    I have never taken you seriously.

    Don’t start now. Don’t take anyone seriously, including, and most importantly, yourself.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LcIHwanRqs

    • Nastarana July 23, 2013 at 3:44 pm #

      Please spare us your delusions of grandeur. I, as you might have noticed, if you ever paid attention to anyone other than yourself, have not presumed to instruct you.

  68. janet July 23, 2013 at 11:12 am #

    bob said: “often one ends up with a burned out city populated by a functionally illiterate population.”

    Yes, but there will be Armed Forces CAREER Recruiting Offices found among the boarded up strip malls because the “functionally illiterate population” is ripe for the picking.

    Burned out cities create a forced military conscription (an economic draft) that benefits the taxpayer funded DoD … to further expand the BIG GOVERNMENT military so many “conservative” Republicans love to love.

    So it’s all good. Business as usual with our socialist military.

    Don’t worry, be happy.

  69. janet July 23, 2013 at 11:35 am #

    We spend 1/2 of the world’s military expenditures … and that means we have strength totalling the next 17 nations combined … and 16 of them are our allies. Though we do not have a national draft, we have an economic draft that recruits the poor, minorities, and immigrants into our socialist (taxpayer-funded) military.

    The military is the largest redistribution project in our country. The money is redistributed from our pockets to the DoD for basic training, education, clothing, beds, roofs, babysitters (also called staff sergeants) who tell you when to sleep and when to wake up, transportation, health care, food, etc.

    I would have no problem with except the whole purpose of the military is immoral: to destroy property and kill other human beings. That is what they teach you to do there.

    As a socialist organization I think the military is great at meeting people’s needs. The same should be done for the rest of the population (without the babysitters).

  70. janet July 23, 2013 at 11:45 am #

    Actually, since government has failed in Detroit. And since the private sector is not going to step up and take the place of government (like libertarians and conservatives would have you believe) …

    There is a nice vacuum for people’s basic human needs to be met. The organization most likely to fill that vacuum is Islam.

    Funny how things work. Republicans responsible for the establishment of an Islamic regime in Detroit. Allah (may peace be upon him) will fill the gap that our neglect and fear has created.

    http://biid.lsa.umich.edu/communities.html

    The Muslim infrastructure appears to already be there in Detroit. Hearts and minds are being won over to Islam. Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

    Tell Detroit to go to hell at your own risk. Karma is at work.

    • Carol Newquist July 23, 2013 at 12:28 pm #

      Did I ever tell you how much I love you? Well, I do. You bring joy to my heart. I mean that in all sincerity.

    • Nichole July 23, 2013 at 4:14 pm #

      😉 Yes! Most sense I’ve read in a while, Janet. Thank you. Carol, thank you for the RAW link. I’ve been reading him since the seventies, until he died.

      • Carol Newquist July 23, 2013 at 4:31 pm #

        You’re welcome. Yes, he is extremely thought-provoking. No lie, I was reading something of his several months past that I received via email from someone, but I thought about something that’s very specific that was in the publication that I later read. In otherwords, it’s as if the publication revealed itself to me before I read it…..that’s how specific this was. It knocked me off my feet. There really is something to it, but you have to be open to it.

  71. juicyfruit July 23, 2013 at 12:03 pm #

    urban farming. why is it “idiotic” james? they have tried everything else, including their republican takeover make it worse plan. im speaking of large gardens not razing the place and planting fields of corn. why dont they transplant the uberpoor into the remaining abandoned houses? give all the grandmothers shotguns. see ‘growing power’ on facebook. they can grow greens and reds for themselves and specialty crops for restaurants in the wealthy sections. what? blacks just refuse to work at all? their children are naturally lazy? thats not what the evidence suggests. again see will allen. hes on fb too. there must be 500 better ideas than this one and better than just letting the damn place burn.

  72. janet July 23, 2013 at 12:03 pm #

    Detroit’s DTE Electric company gets 61.3% of its energy from coal. Coal plants put out mercury and other toxic chemicals and are implicated in autism in children. But their major danger to the earth is that they are the dirtiest of hydrocarbons, spewing billions of metric tons a year of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere and threatening us with climate catastrophe.

    So, does that mean if we can get rid of Detroit, we can survive as a species? Um, I don’t think Detroit is the only city burning coal to produce electricity. A pox on all your houses.

    Once Detroit is in Muslim control there will be nuclear options for electricity generation. Just like Pakistan, the first Muslim country in the world to construct and operate civil nuclear power plants.

    http://biid.lsa.umich.edu/FM_Islamic_Center_of_America.html

    Allahu Akbar!
    God is greatest! God is greatest!
    And God is the best helper of the oppressed.
    Of Detroit’s neglected, forgotten, and oppressed.

    • Carol Newquist July 23, 2013 at 12:33 pm #

      Yes!!

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 9:59 pm #

      End ALL tax breaks for religious institutions including Islam.

  73. Carol Newquist July 23, 2013 at 12:33 pm #

    to further expand the BIG GOVERNMENT military so many “conservative” Republicans love to love

    And let’s face it, that BIG GOVERNMENT military includes all the so-called private contractors that supply it with all manner of shit. Q Schmuck’s standard of living is the result of BIG GOVERNMENT handouts to private defense contractors. Why, he’s no better than the retired union police officer docking his yacht at Mo-Bay for some JERK chicken.

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 9:57 pm #

      BIG GOVT s/b drowned in a tub to stop people like Q. from living like kings.

  74. janet July 23, 2013 at 12:35 pm #

    Qshtik’s hypocrisy is well-known. When he refuses to accept the government handouts he receives (though he accepted them for 27 years as a bean counter), I will begin to consider his anti-government ideas.

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 9:54 pm #

      Counting beans is hard work.

  75. janet July 23, 2013 at 12:40 pm #

    Did I ever tell you how much I love you? Well, I do. You bring joy to my heart. I mean that in all sincerity.

    Thank you.

    The curmudgeon, knee-jerk pessimists, dormers, misanthropes, and hypocrites like Qshtik, need to hear what you have to say. You are providing a vital service to CFN.

    I continue to be amused by those who think we are one and the same.

    • Carol Newquist July 23, 2013 at 12:44 pm #

      I continue to be amused by those who think we are one and the same.

      Same here, however, I consider it a compliment to be considered you, so whilst it makes me chuckle, it also makes me happy, and that’s a good thing.

      • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 9:51 pm #

        “Carol” likes to use the word “whilst” to appear British. “She” actually lives on welfare in a crummy apt in West Philly.

  76. janet July 23, 2013 at 12:40 pm #

    ^doomers

  77. Bob Teague July 23, 2013 at 12:57 pm #

    Carol and janet, had I not passed away, I would have taken one or both of you for my third and fourth wife. BIG LOVE style. You two are great. You’re able to do what I couldn’t do when I was alive — Shtik it to Q. He was constantly correcting my diction, and in order to avoid controversy and conflict, I let him do it — well, to be totally honest, he also let me feel up his wife underneath the dinner table, so there was a little something in it for me, but still, the guy is nothing more than a slightly spiffed-up Archie Bunker. Keep it coming — you’re making my afterlife blessed. Thank you for all that you do.

  78. JBinCville July 23, 2013 at 1:12 pm #

    JHK,

    You sounded like you were in some pain last week. I hope you’re feeling better soon.

    Take it easy!

  79. rube-i-con July 23, 2013 at 1:30 pm #

    haha, kunstler once again says everything’s coming to a halt cuz oil’s on its way out. humanity ALWAYS finds a response to its energy threat. he says solar and wind are in NO WISE able to meet our energy needs.

    So…what will kunstler say about that fact that Germany, a country that gets 3,900% LESS sunlight than the US, met HALF of its energy needs on two days last year, even though Germany uses TONS of energy, being one hell of an INDUSTRIALIZED country with a HUGE population. Here’s a report we can all stuff back in the face of kunstler’s sissified world-made-by-hand nonsense:
    ————————————————————————————–
    “The International Economic Platform for Renewable Energies in Muenster said in a press release last Saturday that photovoltaic operations in Germany were producing at 22 gigawatts for a cloudless stretch beginning at around noon on Friday, May 25.

    As the institute pointed out, that was the equivalent of about 20 nuclear power plants.

    “There are currently no other countries on earth producing solar plants with a capacity of 20,000 megawatts (20 gigawatts),” director Norbert Allnoch said in the release, translated roughly into English by Google.

    Reuters followed that announcement with a story the next day saying the 22 gigawatts furnished nearly 50 percent of Germany’s electricity at the time.
    ————————————————————————————–
    Germans can buy solar panels CHEAP and PLUG THEM DIRECTLY INTO THE GRID and GET A CHECK FROM THEIR UTILITY.

    WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT, KUNSTLER?! I want to see you SQUARE THIS with your back-to-the-farm scenario due to the severe decline – and massive price rise – of oil. We know you monitor this site, so FESS UP NOW or remain the ineffectual ‘thinker’ you so clearly are.

    peace peaceniks

  80. rube-i-con July 23, 2013 at 1:31 pm #

    met its energy supply from solar, that is….

    peace peacenigs

  81. K-Dog July 23, 2013 at 1:32 pm #

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrfv-9zm7zY&feature=player_embedded

    A proposed freeway widening that would cut through Detroit’s most up-and-coming neighborhood had residents and transit activists howling for alternatives.

    • K-Dog July 23, 2013 at 1:49 pm #

      This video was made in 2010. The project is planned to take a decade. Perhaps a commenter in the Detroit area could enlighten us on this strangeness?

      At the end of the project will a final project review give consideration to horses and mules as well as bicyclists?

      I found out embedding a video turns out to be super easy here now. This was a test but the video is relevant. It’s a hoot.

      • ozone July 24, 2013 at 8:13 am #

        That is hilarious!
        A bankrupt, crumbling and shrinking city slated to aggressively improve its’ roadways (at massive [public funds] expense, of course). How is it that they always find a way to loot the treasury with little or no consequence?

        It does make us wonder who’s getting paid and why…

  82. Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 2:19 pm #

    This just arrived in my inbox.

    http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/index.html

    View, listen and discuss amongst yourselves.

    • Carol Newquist July 23, 2013 at 2:50 pm #

      Bill makes a great case for abortion to be mandatory and covered under the The Affordable Health Care for America Act for all conception out of wedlock….including the innocent, white darlings. You are an Atheist. I thought you were bluffing, but obviously, you’re not. You advocate infanticide. Only a Fascist Atheist would do such a thing.

      • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 9:08 pm #

        Kill all the white babies.

    • Tancred July 23, 2013 at 2:58 pm #

      I think what screeds like that show is that an awful lot of people have invested a lot in the concept of free will. Considering the present state of neuroscience, it would be hard to argue that there are not cognitive predispositions toward certain behaviors, or that people are born with brains that are morally ready “out of the box.” But if you listen to O’Reily, he first talks about how the black kids make choices, but then he holds videos, movies, and parents as also being accountable. Doesn’t even mentioning those other factors admit that the brain can be influenced to make an agent/actor do certain things? This is the illogical approach that most folks on the right (for lack of a better term) take, and an approach that even the most novice debater can expose as such. Would not poor parenting be “a sin of the past” in the personal history of a particular teenager?

      • Nichole July 23, 2013 at 6:20 pm #

        Bill and others (Q Schtik?) have no desire to look at other environmental factors for problems. Looking at environment too closely, beyond the behaviors of parents, children and “entertainers” (like Bill himself) and implicating environmental factors such as poverty and its provable connection to poor educational outcomes, familial disintegration would rub against their neoliberal idolatry of the “unfree market.”

        Is “race”a factor in the lives of black and hispanic folk, indigenous folks? Of course it is. Race and status in North America have been linked since Ponce de Leon and Hernando deSoto tramped through the southern woodlands.

        And it’s been used ruthlessly by the wealthy to divide and subjugate people of darker color from people of lighter color. Just look at O’Reilly himself. His rants are never logical or hung on much other than “lighter skinned” beliefs and shibboleths.

        • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 9:06 pm #

          Whites are responsible for the culture that produced the Camden HS prom pictures.

    • Carol Newquist July 23, 2013 at 3:14 pm #

      Bill’s a guy who takes himself way too seriously and believes his own bullshit. This explains it nicely:

      http://www.internetweekly.org/images2/falafel_knows_best_fin.jpg

  83. Carol Newquist July 23, 2013 at 2:55 pm #

    This just arrived in my inbox.

    In the video to which you linked, Bill mentions cesspool. I have no doubt your “inbox” is a veritable cesspool with all manner of toxic vermin swimming to and fro. I’ve lost my appetite just thinking about it.

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 9:02 pm #

      Republicans have turned my inbox into a cesspool.

  84. hortonz July 23, 2013 at 3:14 pm #

    Four years after Obama promised to lead America’s working class to the promised land and this is what we get: the largest bankruptcy in American municipal history, a 50% unemployment rate for young black males, an entire generation of young American males, both white and black, turning to anti-social and dangerous behavior to fill the void left by an economy that no longer values their labor and one African American murdered every day on the violent streets of Chicago. What happened to hope and change? The real tragedy of Detroit’s downfall is a society that gives young men the message that if they’re not fortunate enough to be born into great wealth their lives will amount to nothing. And presiding over all of these broken and dying towns and cities where the residents are left with no hope we have a puppet in the White House whose only answer is to present a false façade of competence and normality. Thank you for another excellent and heartfelt post JHK. I’ve posted “Requiem for Detroit” on my facebook page.

    • rube-i-con July 23, 2013 at 3:53 pm #

      hortonz, you have made my day with your eloquent, somber elegy of the formerly united states.

      write more, please.

      peace peaceniks

  85. BackRowHeckler July 23, 2013 at 3:28 pm #

    Does anybody remember when Mayor Young proudly proclaimed Detroit City to be The Black Capital of Black North America? That was a landmark moment in American History. And which mayor claimed to be the ‘Motherf-cker in Charge’? I think he’s in prison now. I forget his name. Any way you look at it they’ve had some remarkable leadership up there in Detroit. You wonder how the place collapsed.

    BRH

  86. janet July 23, 2013 at 3:40 pm #

    “I couldn’t get over the fact that there was no difference between Sylvia’s restaurant and any other restaurant in New York City. I mean, it was exactly the same, even though it’s run by blacks, primarily black patronship. There wasn’t one person in Sylvia’s who was screaming, “MotherFucker, I want more iced tea.”

    — Bill “loofah falafel” O’Reilly

    The same Bill “loofah falafel” O’Reilly who preaches about young Black women having babies out of wedlock, who tries to pass himself off as having traditional values, who is divorced, who is a draft dodger, who has a $10 million sexual harassment settlement under his belt. Bill O’Reilly is no one to be preaching about young Black women!

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 9:00 pm #

      Whitey made those black women have babies out of wedlock.

  87. janet July 23, 2013 at 3:48 pm #

    What happened to hope and change?

    You want hope and change? Look at the Affordable Care Act and then look at the cost savings for health insurance (up to 50% cheaper) by buying through the Obamacare health exchanges, according to prices released already in California and New York. More states to follow.

    For some people the ability to have affordable health insurance, to have health insurance for the first time in their lives, is a concrete achievement of Obama’s hope and change campaign.

    “The New York State Department of Financial Services approved health insurance plan rates for insurers seeking to offer coverage through New York’s Health Benefits Exchange – the entity through which uninsured individuals will purchase their coverage. According to the Department, on average, the 2014 rates for coverage purchased by individual New York consumers will be roughly half the cost for the current’s year’s rates paid directly by individuals. The reason for this rate cut is that the Department believes that a greater number of uninsured individuals are expected to obtain coverage in the individual insurance market – thus lowering overall premiums.”

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 8:58 pm #

      INSANITY

      “Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured…..but not everyone must prove they are a citizen.”

      “And now, any of those that refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens.”

  88. Carol Newquist July 23, 2013 at 4:05 pm #

    Some folks are happy about the bankruptcy despite the sky-is-falling headlines parroted everywhere you look.

    http://www.fastcompany.com/3014599/the-pivot/detroits-bankruptcy-filing-isnt-a-fiasco-its-a-pivot

    As embarrassing as the global headlines today are, the bankruptcy filing represents quick action after years of inaction and ineffectiveness. Just three months ago, Kevin Orr, a bankruptcy lawyer, was brought in by the state as emergency manager to rectify the city’s financial mess. After trying to negotiate for creditors to forgive much of the debt, he opted for what many have long considered inevitable: restructuring (and hopefully reducing) those IOUs under the protection of a court.

    Bankruptcy, says Bob Marsh, CEO of LevelEleven, one of Detroit’s new startups, “gives me hope in what’s going to happen next. For decades, those of us living here have seen mismanagement and corruption and the same pattern: a new mayor comes in with plans on how to fix things and yet they keep getting worse. A lot of people here have wanted this to happen. It’s time to take drastic measures so the city can correct itself. Someone’s finally willing to take a pivot here.”

    For what it’s worth, a bankruptcy judge can’t wipe away the city employee pensions and healthcare benefits. The state can decide to not fund them, but that’s not a matter for bankruptcy. Bankruptcy will alleviate the debt burden, thus making it easier to meet those deferred compensation obligations.

    In the article, one entrepreneur said something profound: he stated “this is an entrepreneurial move. It’s the idea of failing faster to find a solution. You’re putting one creditor on hold to regain control of cash flow to service your core business, which in this case happens to be the city of Detroit.”

    Get that? If Detroit is the microcosm you all claim it to be, than the U.S. at large needs to fail faster so we can get on with whatever comes after.

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 8:56 pm #

      It’s all whitey’s fault.

  89. beantownbill. July 23, 2013 at 4:10 pm #

    You know how sometimes you’d like some peace and quiet, but the neighbor is playing music too loud and non-stop? Even though you may inherently like most of what he’s been playing, you can’t stand to hear the music, BECAUSE ALL YOU WANT IS PEACE AND QUIET?

    Well, I have a little free time right now, so I logged on to CFN, and what do I find? 193 posts in a little over a day and a half. Of those 193, Carol has posted 28 times and Janet 18. If they don’t post any more today (doubtful, unless they want to be contrary), at their present rate Carol will post at least 98 times this week, followed by Janet at 63. Now, I’m all for freedom of speech, but to dominate the comment section as they do seems a bit much.

    Carol’s incessant put-downs are a lot to handle 100 times a week, and to hear Janet’s consistent contrariness over 60 times a week…

    I now understand E’s complaints about this.

    Does anyone agree with me, or am I being unreasonable?

    • alpha mail July 23, 2013 at 5:28 pm #

      Well, Bill, what can I say? They’re both opinionated, self righteous bitches. What we have here is Asoka’s reincarnation without a doubt. Their inability to listen to any other beliefs only serve to prove to me how adolescent these two are. I tend to regard them as annoying blowhards and try not to feed these two trolls. Alas, sometimes I slip up and throw them the occasional bone to gnaw on. The best part about getting older for me is that these two bitches don’t grate on my nerves. I just wait for them to inevitably run out of breath. And sooner or later their non-sensical ravings do come to a stop.

  90. alpha mail July 23, 2013 at 5:40 pm #

    The evening news in my area tonight had a story about how the state food stamp program is having some sort of glitch, causing recipients to have to resort to going to food pantries. One “lady”, and I use that term very loosely, said, “How am I ‘spose to feed me and my fambily?” How about getting a job, honey? And stop putting the pinch on my thinning taxpayer wallet. Have babies first, think about how to feed and provide for them later. Yep. Sounds like a recipe for success to me. Did someone say Detroit? This business keeps up much longer and you’re going to see a whole lot more Detroits in this country, as people who have jobs get fed up and leave these parasites to fight over whatever is left of the rotting carcasses they attempt to pick clean. White flight, anyone?

    • Nastarana July 23, 2013 at 5:54 pm #

      Well, a place to start is property owners need to allow tenants to grow food. Reasonable restrictions could apply, tenants should pay for their own water and keep the vege area tidy, but bottom line, collecting rents ain’t exactly work, and if the landlord can afford the monthly services of Machoman and the Flying Weedwhackers he or she can afford to allow a tomato plant, potato barrel and bean teepee.

      Ever wonder why middle class liberals get all riled up about pesticide and herbicide drift near elementary schools, but could care less about the same chemicals being used around low income housing without even any notice to tenants? Just asking.

      • alpha mail July 23, 2013 at 6:13 pm #

        I’m all about allowing tenants to grow food. I don’t think that’s the issue here. And I suspect you already know that. Someone who has not thought through were his or her next meal is going to come from is not exactly a person who will make a good gardner/farmer. Just sayin.

    • Nichole July 23, 2013 at 6:44 pm #

      Who do you “parasitize,” mail? I mean, I presume you aren’t one of the big parasites like Rupert Murdoch, David, Charles, and Bill Koch, Jamie Dimon, or Lloyd Blankfein. Thus, you hold down some sort of job and think of yourself as hardworking, but likely behind a desk or in a service trade.

      Distill grow your own food, do ya? Because if you don’t you parasitize the government by purchasing food that’s being subsidized by that government’s tax receipts. Oops, my guess is that your uninformed self wasn’t aware of all the perks you drain from the government till. Or perhaps you are, but think that’s somehow your “right.” And it is. Governments are constitutionally bound to provide “for the public welfare.”

      But, lemme guess, you’d rather feel superior to poor folks by acting as if you are Mr. Self-Made Man. Your play acting is rather obvious, since it’s also obvious that your social class is the same of those of us who make less than $200,000 per year of income.

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 8:53 pm #

      Asoka’s right ;o) whitey and white flight are to blame for the bankruptcy of Duh Twah.

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 8:55 pm #

      Asoka’s right ;o) whitey and white flight are to blame for the bankruptcy of Duh Twah.

  91. Carol Newquist July 23, 2013 at 6:40 pm #

    How about getting a job, honey?

    It’s a known fact that for this system to operate as intended, full employment must be avoided at all costs, therefore, it’s imperative there always be a certain percentage unemployed as a relief valve. That percentage varies according to the conditions at the time, but currently, if accurate statistics are used. the real percentage is at least 20%, maybe even higher. And yet you have the nerve to tell her to get a job. You piece of garbage. You creep, lush, crumb bum, coward. The only alpha you are, is an alpha loser.

  92. janet July 23, 2013 at 7:17 pm #

    I don’t believe alpha mail has never received government benefits.

    Most Americans (55%) have received benefits from one of these six federal programs: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare (TANF), unemployment benefits, and food stamps (SNAP)

    And that is a good thing. Government is of the people, by the people, for the people and is charged by the Constitution with defense and the general welfare of the people.

    If you broaden to households rather than individuals then 71% of adults are part of a household that has benefited” from at least one of those six programs. Again, that is a good thing. Government works and serves those in need.

    After you add veteran benefits and college assistance, 70% of individuals — and 86% of households — receive a government benefit of some kind. Put differently, only one in seven households doesn’t receive assistance from the federal government.

    Most benefits are spent on the elderly, through Social Security and Medicare, and nearly every household with an adult over 65 receives federal benefits of some kind. I bet “alpha mail” has some elderly relative who has receive government benefits. But perhaps the most common benefit available — unemployment benefits — can help Americans as young as teenagers.

    Who knows? Maybe “alpha mail” is in one of the tiny percentage of households where nobody has ever received a government benefit. But if he ever drove on a road, drank clean water, received a letter in the mail, had food that passed government inspection, drove over a bridge that did not collapse, etc. then even he has received benefit from government.

  93. janet July 23, 2013 at 7:33 pm #

    I now understand E’s complaints about this. Does anyone agree with me, or am I being unreasonable?

    You are being unreasonable.

    Who is forcing you to log on here?

    Who is preventing you from going elsewhere if you don’t like it here?

    Who is preventing you from scrolling past those whose posts you want to ignore?

    Who is being prevented from posting here? By whom?

    Do you really believe in free speech? I say no.

    You seem to be having issues with accepting reality as it is. You might want to work on being a bit more tolerant of others. Or not. It is your choice.

    But posting complaints here about what you find when you voluntarily log on to come here and voluntarily count how many posts are made by janet, brad, Dr. Scott, Rocky is most definitely unreasonable behavior.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfNfQixs8yA

    Thanks for asking, Beantown.

  94. janet July 23, 2013 at 7:44 pm #

    More on Obama’s successful hope and change with regard to affordable health care: Obama’s Marketplace is an easier way to shop for health insurance. The Marketplace simplifies your search for health coverage by gathering the options available in your area in one place. With one application, you can compare plans side-by-side and explore any free or low-cost programs you may qualify for. No matter where you live, you’ll be able to use the Marketplace to apply for coverage and enroll. Find the Marketplace in your state.

    • Most people can get lower costs. When you use the Marketplace you may be able to get lower costs on your monthly premiums and out-of-pocket costs. When you fill out your application, you’ll find out how much you can save based on your income. Most people who apply will qualify for some level of savings.

    • The Marketplace gives you control over your options with clear, apples-to-apples comparisons. In the Marketplace, information about prices and benefits is written in simple language. You get a clear picture of what premiums and protections you’d get before you enroll. You can compare plans based on what’s important to you, and choose the combination of price and coverage that fits your needs and budget.

    Be sure you and your friends are ready to take advantage of this great opportunity starting October 1! Spread the word.

    Or you can continue to pay higher premiums and “punish Obama”… LOL!

    Or, if you are a Republican congressman, you can vote against Obamacare for the 39th time. LOL!

    Meanwhile, ordinary Americans will be paying less for health insurance.

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 8:47 pm #

      DEFINITION OF INSANITY

      “Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured…..but not everyone must prove they are a citizen.”

      “And now, any of those that refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens.”

  95. janet July 23, 2013 at 8:03 pm #

    For all those who have invested in municipal bonds, thinking that you’ve bought a risk-free asset, you might want to reconsider those investments.

    If Detroit teaches us anything, it is that Republican takeover of a city (appointing a “city manager”) means money will be lost for investors who thought they had safe investments.

    Republicans will go to extremes to get your money.

    Think Bush tax cuts (furthering income inequality; the rich got richer; the largest driver of federal budget deficits. Bush won’t pay for them, we will)

    Think Bush’s illegal wars ($4 trillion and counting, also unpaid for, with thousands of wounded veterans still to pay for… for the next 40 years)

    Think Bush’s economic collapse of 2008. Think trillions of dollars redistributed from you to “them” (banks, no-bid contracts, Halliburton, war industry, etc.).

    Detroit is a small potato. (No apologies to Dan Quayle)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdqbi66oNuI

  96. janet July 23, 2013 at 8:21 pm #

    Republicans keep voting to repeal Obamacare. They are voting to INCREASE THE DEFICIT.

    CBO Director Doug Elmendorf pointed to an estimate from July 2012 that abolishing healthcare reform would raise the deficit by $109 billion over 10 years.

    Republicans don’t care. They have voted to INCREASE THE DEFICIT 38 times now, even though Obamacare was passed by Congress, signed by the President, and ratified by the Supreme Court.

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 8:44 pm #

      DEFINITION OF INSANITY

      “Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured…..but not everyone must prove they are a citizen.”

      “And now, any of those that refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens.”

      • handyman July 23, 2013 at 9:22 pm #

        Perhaps posting the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the real definition of insanity?

  97. janet July 23, 2013 at 8:33 pm #

    I’m still waiting to hear from all those who regularly howl about government tyranny. Why aren’t they howling about Detroit? Detroiters have been living under an unelected emergency manager, Kevyn Orr, who Rick Snyder, a Republican governor, appointed. We hear a lot from the right about “judicial activism” … where is the outcry over a dictatorial appointment? Why should an unelected bankruptcy lawyer become ultimately the major decider, the one decider in Detroit?

    Where are the Tea Party protesters?

    Where are the Constitutionalists?

    Where are the small government Conservatives?

  98. janet July 23, 2013 at 8:37 pm #

    What about the people? Aren’t you guys supposed to be for the people and against dictators? (or only if they are Black like Obama)

    The law that permitted Snyder to appoint a city emergency manager was overturned last November, by a vote of the people, by Michigan voters, in a ballot referendum. They voted to overturn that law.

    Doesn’t anyone want to stand up for the people and against a dictatorial governor who is engaging in unconstitutional acts?

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 9:28 pm #

      Why did Asoka tell us 6 months ago that everything was hunky dory in Duh Twah?

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 9:43 pm #

      Asoka lied about building and living in a mud hut. You can’t trust anything “he” says to be true.

  99. janet July 23, 2013 at 8:52 pm #

    And for those of you who say it is not a Democrat/Republican thing because there is not a dime’s worth of difference…

    Show me where a Democratic governor is taking over cities and filing to force them into bankruptcy.

    Show me where a Democratic governor is signing laws to force women to have medically unnecessary transvaginal probes stuck up their vaginas.

    Show me a Democratic governor who is signing laws to shut down abortion clinics.

    Show me a Democratic governor who is engaging in voter suppression. (if you can’t beat them at the polls, rig the game)

    Show me a Democratic governor who opposes the Dream Act for immigrants who are here “illegally”

    No difference between Democrats and Republicans? The claim just does not hold up under real world scrutiny of governor’s agendas.

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 9:21 pm #

      Jerry Brown and Mike Beebe for starters.

  100. progress4what July 23, 2013 at 9:13 pm #

    Thanks for the week’s work, JHK.
    “These cities attained a scale of operation that just can’t be sustained beyond the twilight of cheap fossil fuels.”
    – jhk –

    You are quite likely correct about this. Of course, this goes against all the precepts of “urban planning.” And it seems to go against the whatever force is presently driving homo sapiens into more and more tightly packed urban living.

    “a simulacrum of “country living.” The entire experiment of suburbia can, of course, be construed as historically inevitable, too, but is also destined to be abandoned — and sooner than most Americans realize.” -jhk-

    Sadly, you may be correct about this as well.
    So – – if the cities are destined to die back and the suburbs are destined to die off – what is to happen to 313,000,000 people?

    I know you think small town living can come back.
    But not for the required numbers of people, correct.

    The implications are obvious and chilling.
    It’s past time to stop the population growth of the United States.

  101. janet July 23, 2013 at 9:18 pm #

    Qshtik is spreading false information again.

    And now, any of those that refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance

    Non-citizens are three times more likely to be uninsured than U.S.-born residents, although they represent only 20 percent of the total uninsured.

    Obamacare will help some gain coverage, although those in the country illegally will not get access to federal subsidies or to insurance sold through new state-based exchanges. That omission as well as other decisions by the Obama administration has brought complaints from immigration advocates.

    Qshtik, there will be no “free” insurance for those who are not citizens. Get real, man. Aren’t you a Republican or conservative or whatever?

    Do you really believe there is such a thing as “free” insurance for non-citizens? Do some research and/or thinking before spreading your lies.

  102. progress4what July 23, 2013 at 9:23 pm #

    “Carol’s incessant put-downs are a lot to handle 100 times a week, and to hear Janet’s consistent contrariness over 60 times a week…

    I now understand E’s complaints about this.

    Does anyone agree with me, or am I being unreasonable?”
    – bean town bill –

    No, Beantown, you are quite correct.

    And, now we have “nicole” as yet another creation of the newcarol..asoka..janet “Troll Trilogy.

    Asoka always outlasts and outposts all others on CFN.
    In my opinion, JAMES HOWARD KUNSTLER has every reason to ban any and all email addresses associated with any of these frenetically overposting CFN trolls.

    Just do it, JHK.

    • anti dod July 24, 2013 at 3:17 pm #

      Is there a ‘Karen’ here as well? I also would like ‘the entity’ banned.
      [And the DoD, Dept. of Defense].

  103. janet July 23, 2013 at 9:28 pm #

    Q. Does the health law give coverage or subsidies to illegal immigrants?

    A. No. The estimated 11 million immigrants living in the U.S. illegally are not eligible for Medicaid, nor can they qualify for federal subsidies to purchase insurance.

    Unlawful immigrants are also barred from using their own money to purchase insurance coverage through the state exchanges.

    SOURCE: Kaiser Health News, Oct. 11, 2012

    THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS UNDER OBAMACARE.

    After all it was a Heritage Foundation and Romney idea to have private sector “marketplace” exchanges, but only citizens participate to get free or low-cost health insurance through the exchanges.

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 9:40 pm #

      Asoka is spreading lies and attributing them to Kaiser Health News,

  104. janet July 23, 2013 at 9:44 pm #

    In my opinion, JAMES HOWARD KUNSTLER has every reason to ban any and all email addresses associated with any of these frenetically overposting CFN trolls.

    You funny, S4B.

    But the topic this week is Detroit.

    We should defend Detroit. Without Detroit all of Michigan suffers. After all, Detroit metropolitan area’s gross domestic product accounts for nearly 46 percent of Michigan’s GDP in 2011, the most recent year data is available.

  105. janet July 23, 2013 at 9:51 pm #

    The 111th Congress enacted the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (P.L. 111-148, PPACA)

    PPACA expressly exempts unauthorized (illegal) aliens from the mandate to have health coverage and bars them from a health insurance exchange. Unauthorized aliens are not eligible for the federal premium credits or cost-sharing subsidies. Unauthorized aliens are also barred from participating in the temporary high-risk pools.

    SOURCE: ?Congressional Research Service, Treatment of Noncitizens Under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

    Qshtik, Kaiser Health News is only communicating what the law says.

    You, on the other hand, are spreading lies by saying non-citizens will get free insurance.

  106. janet July 23, 2013 at 9:53 pm #

    By the way, Qshtik, what does Asoka have to do with this?

    • Carol Newquist July 23, 2013 at 10:14 pm #

      janet, that’s not Q Shtik. If I had to guess, I’d say it’s alpha mail posing as Q Shtik. If you look closely enough, the most recent posts for Q Shtik don’t follow his usual MO. It’s that, or Q Shtik is drunk off his ass.

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 10:18 pm #

      Who are you talking to? Qshtik hasn’t posted a comment for two years.

  107. janet July 23, 2013 at 10:40 pm #

    janet, that’s not Q Shtik.

    Ooops. I see that now. Good catch.

    These guys don’t have anything to say about Detroit in spite of the fact many posts have been made relevant to Detroit. People like S4B pop in and show their intolerance, call to daddy for help, and pop out.

    Meanwhile, Detroit is marching forward. The Detroit Economic Development Corp. board approved a preliminary deal with a national developer today for a five-block, $60-million residential community on the east riverfront.

    The Detroit Tigers are 11 games over .500 for first time this season.

    An 11-year-old boy was shot in the arm Tuesday while he was outside his neighbor’s home on Detroit’s east side. Officers arrived on the scene 4 minutes after 1st call was made (not 58 minutes). The boy is hospitalized and in stable condition.

    In other words, life goes on, much as it did before filing for bankruptcy.

    Collapse and Doom, wherefore art thou? A long way away…

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 10:48 pm #

      HaHa, the neighbor’s home is next door to the police station Dr. Pangloss. An 11 year old boy gets shot and Asoka finds a reason for optimism. Only in the mind of Asoka….

  108. Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 10:42 pm #

    My assignment for “Carol” is to NOT use the word “whilst” for the rest of this week. It is so pretentious.

  109. Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 11:04 pm #

    I hope everyone is noticing that Brazil is a basket case… a country touted by Rubicon and Asoka as a paradise. Psychologically there is something fundamentally wrong with Asoka. Maybe being a “fruitarian” affected “him.”

  110. janet July 23, 2013 at 11:07 pm #

    The world’s richest 300 people control more wealth than the poorest 3 billion, and the gap continues to grow, according to the latest report issued last month by the Capgemini wealth consultancy and the Royal Bank of Canada.

    Detroit is a center of Islam and income inequality exists in Detroit. Unfortunately Muslims do not have political control yet in Detroit. Wealth inequality will not be tolerated when true Islam runs things. The fundamental axiom of free-market capitalist economics that “more is better” is not the Islamic viewpoint.

    Further, the view according to some modes of religious thinking that wealth and prosperity are directly linked to the degree of one’s divine favour or disfavour from God is also not the Islamic viewpoint.

    Although Islamic economics is capitalist, such capitalism is not free-market, but rather, requires morality and regulation.

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 11:20 pm #

      Since the holy month of Ramadan began July 10, more than 250 people have been killed across Iraq, including at least 84 who died Saturday and Sunday. Twenty-nine deaths were reported in attacks on two Baghdad prisons.

      ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE

  111. Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 11:09 pm #

    China is the next shoe to drop. They claim GDP growth of 7.5% but CNBC says it’s more like 2%. The markets will soon price in the bad news.

  112. janet July 23, 2013 at 11:24 pm #

    “The good news, lost amidst the screaming headlines over bankruptcy, is that market momentum in Detroit’s core is real and palpable and provides a strong foundation for future growth. In fact, the broadly supported Detroit Future City plan provides an excellent blueprint for growth and investment. Now is not the time for investors outside Detroit merely to observe or monitor the bankruptcy process. Rather, this is the time to engage in a productive and creative fashion.

    Like many American cities, Detroit has a strong core. Its 7.2 square mile core, encompassing Downtown, Midtown, New Center and a handful of other neighborhoods in a city of 139 square miles, is seeing a surge of private and civic investment and business and residential growth. In this relatively small area of the city there are roughly 5,400 businesses employing more than 135,000 workers. Add to that the 29,000 students at Wayne State University, and the numbers represent a remarkable opportunity to catalyze growth in businesses, the residential market and all that follows.”

    From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130723/OPINION01/307230009#ixzz2Zvud37lT

    • Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 11:40 pm #

      Well what do you expect THE DETROIT NEWS to report…that the city is going down the toilet?

      Stop being such a rube Asoka.

  113. Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 11:35 pm #

    This tiny article was buried at the lower right bottom of page A12 in the July 23 NY Times.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/23/us/florida-zimmerman-helps-at-crash-scene.html?_r=0

    The news report comes 6 days after the incident.

    • anti dod July 24, 2013 at 3:19 pm #

      There is also a Blog: “Crimes of the Times’.

  114. Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 11:52 pm #

    In other words, life goes on, much as it did before filing for bankruptcy. – Asoka

    The worst possible thing for Detroit is that “life goes on, much as it did before filing for bankruptcy” yet the absurdity that this is somehow good news escapes Asoka.

    I assume that includes all the govt corruption? Well, of course it does.

  115. janet July 24, 2013 at 1:42 am #

    “Detroit has the same strong assets like colleges, research centers and an active business leadership that have helped other big postindustrial cities recover.

    Much of the city is seeing a surge in private and civic investment in business and residential growth … and the downtown is being transformed by such leaders as Dan Gilbert, founder of Quicken Loans, who moved the firm’s headquarters to downtown Detroit in 2007.” –Clarence Page

  116. Newfie July 24, 2013 at 2:48 am #

    The US government will spend a billion dollars a month to aid rebels in Syria (who are allied with Al-Queda!). Five trillion spend on foreign wars. But Detroit goes bankrupt.

    • ozone July 24, 2013 at 7:08 am #

      Well, there’s a pretty interesting metric, I’d say.
      (Cuts right through a lot of wishin’ and a-hopin’.)

  117. progress4what July 24, 2013 at 7:33 am #

    Here, Being There. You’ll like this.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/07/middle-out-economics-why-the-rights-supply-side-dogma-is-wrong/278044/

    ==================

    And newjanet…asoka, carol, and “nicole.”
    It’s time to post less and stop your troll comments.
    Or else, plan to go away permanently – due to the action of JHK or the CFN moderator.

  118. Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 7:46 am #

    I assume that includes all the govt corruption?

    Redundant much? Of course you do. It is understood government is, by it’s very nature, corrupt. There’s no need to be superfluous. The word government, by itself, without the added word corruption, would have sufficed, but then again, that’s asking a lot from an illiterate like yourself.

    What an embarrassment for Romney since he’s from Michigan and his family owns a good chunk of it. And to think, he had aspirations for the presidency. Whew!! It’s a good thing the “American” people had more sense than that. If Romney was elected, the U.S. would have declared bankruptcy like Deetroyt and hundreds of millions of “slanty-eyes” would be flooding across our numerous and porous borders. Chinese would have become the official language. Obama is holding his finger in that dike and yet you right wingers have the nerve to criticize him. It’s the story of your life. You’re grateful for nothing, not even the government hand-outs that have allowed you to own a three story house in overpriced Joyzee. You are a selfish freeloader with an enormous sense of entitlement. You disgust me.

  119. Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 7:57 am #

    Or else, plan to go away permanently – due to the action of JHK or the CFN moderator.

    This is a very odd statement. It possesses an underlying, yet unwarranted, confidence. Why would that be? Perhaps because the author of it is not who he says he is. This is a dead giveaway:

    permanently – due

    That double hyphenation is like a fingerprint. Not many people use it, and when it is used, I make special note of it. Also, the use of quotes around people’s names is also a fingerprint. It’s sloppy. There is no way progress4what is who he claims to be. No way. It doesn’t add up. So, come out from your sockpuppet shadow, progress4what, and show us who you really are…..as if I don’t already know.

    Frenetically and sans. What a hoot. Those two words and Georgia Militia Man with no more than a high school education go together like oil and water. Please be more consistent with your characters. It’s insulting to our intelligence. And don’t say game over because you’re now being beat at your own game. That’s being a poor sport.

    • Q. Shtik July 24, 2013 at 9:33 am #

      “Carol,” former unpublished author of lame soft porn, has now taken up forensic reading.

      • alpha mail July 24, 2013 at 10:37 am #

        There is no end to “her” many talents. As I recall, “her” lame soft core porn had a decidedly male perspective. Interestingly, “she” has followed your instructions and held off on using “whilst”. Maybe you could instruct “her” to jump into the river, since “she” follows your dicktum.

  120. Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 8:06 am #

    The US government will spend a billion dollars a month to aid rebels in Syria (who are allied with Al-Queda!). Five trillion spend on foreign wars. But Detroit goes bankrupt.

    You’re scratching at the surface, but the problem with fiscal conservatives, or people who think they are that, is that it isn’t spending. It’s revenue. When you change your perspective, it becomes much clearer. Don’t put your money in municipal bonds, put it in armaments and energy. Once you do, you will be rooting for more Syria’s and Libya’s and cheering the bankruptcy of “American” cities so you can assets for pennies on the dollar with the gains from your war investments. Now ask yourself, who are the saps who own the municipal bonds of Deetroyt? That will be very telling. I doubt it’s the Plutocracy, because if it was, the Federal Government would be bailing Deetroyt out as we speak.

    • Q. Shtik July 24, 2013 at 9:50 am #

      I doubt it’s the Plutocracy, because if it was, the Federal Government would be bailing Deetroyt out as we speak.

      Rest assured, there are people in the inner sanctum of the Obama Administration working feverishly at this moment to bail out Duh- Twah because it’s too big to fail and all of us who couldn’t give two shits about the Tigers, the Pistons, or MoTown Records will pick up the tab. That’s ’cause liberals say “it takes a village”…or, in this case, a nation.

      Once it becomes apparent that a major city will be bailed out, like the banks and auto companies, there will be a cascade of similar bankruptcies. I’ll guess Camden is next.

    • Q. Shtik July 24, 2013 at 10:08 am #

      so you can assets for pennies on the dollar

      so you can [fill in the blank] assets for pennies on the dollar

      Now ask yourself, who are the saps who own the municipal bonds of Deetroyt?

      Those saps are the idiots who believed Asoka when he said six months ago that everything is fine and dandy in Detroit.

  121. Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 8:30 am #

    Here, Being There. You’ll like this.

    Ah, the middle class argument. It’s so transparent; a translucent carrot.

    A true “Progressive” wouldn’t fall for this because it doesn’t square with their care for the environment. A middle class, as the way it’s described in this article, would environmentally destroy the planet, if it’s not already toast. The environment cannot sustain such a widespread standard of living. It actually is better for the environment for the wealth to be concentrated at the top because those at the top can’t consume like billions could. I’m not advocating for that. The way out of this mess, if there is one, is for ALL people to have much less than they do now, especially so-called 1st World people like us.

    Either way, the article is a puff-piece joke. Those days are over. No more Soviet Union, no more middle class. It’s never coming back anyhow, anyway, despite PCR’s cheering for it.

    • Q. Shtik July 24, 2013 at 9:58 am #

      The way out of this mess……….is for ALL people to have much less than they do now

      Precisely, and that is what will happen. So, after all your bullshit it turns out you agree with JHK.

  122. Q. Shtik July 24, 2013 at 9:27 am #

    It is understood government is, by it’s very nature, corrupt.

    You’re preaching to the choir…tell it to Asoka.

  123. BackRowHeckler July 24, 2013 at 9:32 am #

    The Tigers might win the pennant. How is that for irony?

    BRH

  124. Q. Shtik July 24, 2013 at 10:14 am #

    “Carol” is doing a good job so far today. She hasn’t used the word “whilst” since I gave “her” “her” assignment 12 hours ago. Keep up the good work.

  125. alpha mail July 24, 2013 at 10:23 am #

    Camden is a good candidate for bankruptcy in the near term. It has a strong record of corruption with about 3 former mayors being convicted iin recent years. Crime, especially property crime, burglary, and homicide are popular sports there. With a population of about 75000, Camden now has about the same number of residents as it did in 1900. Since 1950 the city has seen a dramatic increase of white flight. Cherry Hill, a suburb of Camden, is where a lot of these white families fled, seeking a refuge from the terror the street thugs there provide so endlessly.

  126. UnstoppableFarceImmovableAbject July 24, 2013 at 10:25 am #

    Mornin’ CFNers, specifically ‘Zone, BT, BTB and E. I see all is well here on CFN?

    I wanted to share this podcast from Chris Martenson which features Dr. Mark Cochrane, a climate scientist I first stumbled upon while listening to a Q&A session proceeding one of Guy Mcpherson’s recent talks. If the conversation interests you and you’d like to dig a little deeper, many of Dr. Cochrane’s detailed studies are easily found. He’s not your usual charismatic alarmist so for me his thoughts are a nice reprieve from the always fascinating but still unhealthy doom and gloom.

    Sorry the post is off-topic, but this blog has lost most of it’s utility. For all the rest, feel free to continue entertaining Asoka The Omni and Yank-o Skuzzinsky. The definition(s) of insanity indeed.

    -UFIA

    http://www.youtube.com/user/ChrisMartensondotcom

    • Q. Shtik July 24, 2013 at 10:34 am #

      while listening to a Q&A session proceeding one of Guy Mcpherson’s recent talks.

      preceeding

      Yeah, I know, it was a typo.

      • UnstoppableFarceImmovableAbject July 24, 2013 at 12:18 pm #

        Well, Q, it may have been a vocabulary error, and if so I appreciate the call out. I considered whether to use preceding in the sentence construction, but my thinking is that because the Q&A session I’m referring to followed GM’s presentation so I guessed that the present participle – proceeding – was correct. Your intuition calls attention to the use of derivational affixes, but it’s clear that you may not have a genuine grasp of the rules behind your grammatical intuition, let alone morphology in general. I’m looking into such rules now, as I’d learned them years ago but do not practice the skills regularly.

        On the other hand, if the Q&A session preceded the speech given, then I would have (mistakenly?) phrased the sentence accordingly. You’ll be the judge.

        https://www.vocabulary.com/articles/chooseyourwords/precede-proceed/

        Anyhow, you seem to only have a well developed intuitive grasp of the English language, but that’s as far as your competency goes. You’re no diagnostician. You’re no literary logician either. You fuck up your criticisms of people’s non-professional and purely conversational dialogue often, and you never cite the formal rules of which you claim to have superior grasp. You often correct other people’s errors while exposing your own weakness and never demonstrate any willingness to own them.

        You boring old fart.

        -UFIA

    • Being There July 24, 2013 at 11:58 am #

      Thanks,
      I listened to it the other day. Really excellent discussion.

      • UnstoppableFarceImmovableAbject July 24, 2013 at 12:28 pm #

        I figgered as much BT… I learnt ’bout all these informative sights from all youze here n e way. Ha!

        I’ve been completely captivated by Guy Mcpherson’s articulate and downright frightening views on global climate change for some time now, but because I’m particularly skeptical even of the views I tend to agree with I’m always on the lookout for contrary or careful scrutiny of what the “experts” have to say.

        I’ve also heard it said that science is the organized skepticism of the reliability of expert opinion. I try to remember that despite my usual willingness to believe what the charismatic types can convincingly argue.

        -UFIA

        • ozone July 25, 2013 at 8:13 am #

          “I’ve also heard it said that science is the organized skepticism of the reliability of expert opinion.” -UFIA

          That is a truly excellent and elegant descriptor!
          Thanks for the link, BTW.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 24, 2013 at 12:44 pm #

      Global Warming? That’s so 2011. They were found to be fudging the data, trying to explain the various historical warming periods that were warmer than today, etc. Too busy fudging and counting their carbon credits to do any real science.

      You are so pc that you can barely walk down the street.

      • UnstoppableFarceImmovableAbject July 24, 2013 at 1:22 pm #

        You’re just plain bizarre, YaNk-o.

        Understandably, JHK shit the bed while recovering from his latest surgery and out slid you; he can’t possibly have the time or energy to properly maintain this site. The nurse has neglected the patient and as a result you, the persistent slimy shit ball, consisting of a lumpy slurry of twisted thought, have once again been allowed to slosh about and stain up this blog.

        But welcome back, you sneaky little pedophile, because if JHK doesn’t see fit to ban Carol then I see no reason why he banned you in the first place. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but soon you’ll make some sort of crass remark about fetal masturbation, or you’ll cry out for the good ol’ days when Men could mount early teenage girls without being imprisoned.

        I know you’re gonna call me a PC, liberal, white-hating, communist, socialist, anarchist, fascist, blah-blah-blah. To a hammer everything is a nail.

        That’s all for now, YaNk-o

    • beantownbill. July 24, 2013 at 12:49 pm #

      UFIA,

      I guess you have to separate the wheat from the chaff in all aspects of life. I look forward to reading the worthwhile comments that crop up here from time to time, besides JHK’s.

      I rarely read, see or listen to commenters’ links because I usually don’t have the time – or maybe because I’m lazy – but I just listened to the podcast you posted.

      I don’t have actual data as to the reality of climate change, but my own personal observations of the local climate indicates that there are indeed changes. I enjoyed Dr. Cochran’s discussion because for the first time I’ll think about how to deal with climate change.

      It seems the public’s main discussion about this topic has been to just argue back and forth about its existence. Maybe podcasts like this can help pave the way for more cogent dialogues about this issue.

      P.S. Just because the CFN comment section is plagued with adolescent dribble and hidden agendas doesn’t mean we can’t get some good ideas from it. I hope the insanity here doesn’t discourage you from posting. You usually make very good comments, one of a small group of people who do.

      • Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 1:00 pm #

        btb, there’s a blog called Nature Bats Last “for more cogent dialogues about this issue.” I suspect you’ve been there and post there. Don’t try to bring it here. It belongs there. The disingenuous crap that’s dropped in the comments section over there is nauseating and so over-the-top as to not be believable. Cogent, my ass. It’s nothing more than a bunch of self-righteous hypocrites incessantly whining about everything and anything rather than enjoying their last days on earth. Or maybe that is enjoyment for them, and if so, maybe Dr. Phil could do a segment on the people of NBL.

        http://guymcpherson.com/

        Come on, billyboy, click on it….it won’t bite ya. You won’t be sorry. The discussion there is so cogent, it bleeds.

      • UnstoppableFarceImmovableAbject July 24, 2013 at 1:46 pm #

        Right on, Bill. I usually just look for the links, especially the research stuff. Never know when I might be able to use it.

        -UFIA

  127. Q. Shtik July 24, 2013 at 10:29 am #

    Much of the city is seeing a surge in private and civic investment in business and residential growth – Asoka

    I thought yesterday was “opposite day” but I guess it’s today. Or maybe this is “opposite week.”

  128. Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 10:45 am #

    The Tigers might win the pennant. How is that for irony?

    I wouldn’t call it irony, I’d call it appropriate. It would be a great way to kick off the New Beginning for DeeTroyt.

    I have to chuckle at UFIA’s link juxtaposed with progress4banning’s link. Yet another example of the contradictions this crowd can’t seem to reconcile. You can’t have that middle class and a healthy environment. I am relieved that Q Schmuck has finally relented to the inevitability of living in a mud hut with his extended family to include MIL and DIL. It will be cozy. No more man cave. Sacrifices will have to be made, but if you change your perspective, they’re not really sacrifices. Look how unhappy Q Schmuck is with all his “things.” Think how much happier he will be sans them? It’s all good.

  129. Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 10:48 am #

    I thought yesterday was “opposite day” but I guess it’s today. Or maybe this is “opposite week.”

    No, yesterday was “falafel loofah” day, thanks to you. Today remains to be seen. We’ll wait for whatever predictable links you provide to determine the theme. In the meantime, keep hitting the bottle, you lush.

  130. Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 10:57 am #

    She hasn’t used the word “whilst” since I gave “her” “her” assignment 12 hours ago.

    Consistency would dictate you should quote the “she” as well, but for some reason you didn’t. Maybe you should put the bottle down…..that way, you’d be a bit more thorough. Or maybe it’s the painkillers affecting your judgment. Also, it’s a poor sentence structure if you have to use “her” back to back like that. Take a little time to edit between swigs before you post, or start weaning yourself off the hydrocodone before you become addicted.

  131. janet July 24, 2013 at 11:52 am #

    Take a little time to edit between swigs before you post

    Maybe he is posting whilst he is is swigging?

    🙂

  132. Q. Shtik July 24, 2013 at 12:01 pm #

    Camden is a good candidate for bankruptcy in the near term.

    Here is a vignette from my memoir that I have posted before, but it’s been awhile and it seems apropos.

    “Back in the 1950s a trip to Philadelphia from Collingswood involved traveling through Camden by going west on the Admiral Wilson Blvd past various used car lots and seedy go-go joints and then running a gantlet of dumpy black-owned row homes during the transit of which one prayed not to get a flat, on up to the Camden bridge (since renamed the Benjamin Franklin) that crossed the Delaware. The bridge cost a quarter in those days and my dad told me that when the bridge first opened in July 1926 the toll was to be temporary. As they say, “don’t hold your breath.” Today a trip over the bridge costs $5.00. Some time later things got worse in Camden. Nearly all of the row homes along the gantlet and its environs were torn down and for years all that remained were dirt mounds, broken glass, rubble and a boarded-up Sears Roebuck at the eastern edge that had been pilfered into non-existence. On top of that, Camden probably has had more politicians indicted for various crimes than even Newark or Atlantic City – two other sad and notorious New Jersey cities long past their heydays.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 24, 2013 at 12:51 pm #

      What’s the racial breakdown in Camden? Overwhelmingly Black per chance?

      Rush is touting a book called “Devil’s Night and other true tales of Detroit” which talks about Mayor Coleman Young’s war on Whites. After the 1967 riots, Whites fled to the suburbs – even to unfinished homes without power or water. Young loved this – seeing himself as a tribal chief like Mayor Daley. But unlike him – he would then blame Whites for everything after that.

      Unfortunately, the little book is out of print, going for 110 dollars on Amazon, even though only 45 pages.

      Devil’s Night is the tradition of arson on Halloween. When firefighters would come, the Blacks youths would stone them.

  133. Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 12:25 pm #

    Maybe he is posting whilst he is is swigging?

    Good one!! Thanks for pinch-hitting for me. It’s a great word, isn’t it?

    That’s probably it. It has one of those water bottles bikers use strapped to its back with a drinking tube that comes up over its shoulder to its big, ugly, drooling mouth.

    I see it’s now posting excerpts of its “memoirs”….AGAIN. I couldn’t read it the first time, I certainly can’t and won’t this time. Its writing is so BORING. Who wants to read about this thing’s BORING life? Seriously, it has to be satire, but even if it is, it’s way too subtle for my tastes, and I can be pretty dry with humor.

    Have you noticed they are trying to entice me to write some salacious material so they can jack-off again? I’m not going to oblige. The world doesn’t need anymore spilled seed. I’d prefer their seed remain unspent causing it to mutate resulting in prostate cancer.

    • Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 12:29 pm #

      Also, the double “is” was a nice touch. This is why I love you so. You’re one of the few who (not that) “gets it.” I don’t know why I quoted except to say it’s contagious, perhaps. That, or maybe I have bone spurs.

  134. Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 12:36 pm #

    Back in the 1950s a trip to Philadelphia from Collingswood involved traveling through Camden by going west on the Admiral Wilson Blvd past various used car lots and seedy go-go joints and then running a gantlet of dumpy black-owned row homes during the transit of which one prayed not to get a flat, on up to the Camden bridge (since renamed the Benjamin Franklin) that crossed the Delaware.

    Break this shit up. The sentence is way too long and rambling. You will lose the reader’s interest quickly with cumbersome structure like this. Still, even with restructuring, the material is so dull, it wouldn’t help much.

    Gantlet? Love it. Apparently it’s a contagious word often confused with gauntlet. There is much support for gauntlet taking its place, but people like Q Schmuck don’t like change and prefer to cling to Old English.

    • Q. Shtik July 24, 2013 at 12:47 pm #

      As you can see, “Carol” didn’t read my comment. Not!

      • Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 12:49 pm #

        I didn’t read it. I can not read it and still determine the sentence structure is too long and rambling unlike you who can’t dribble and chew gum at the same time.

  135. Q. Shtik July 24, 2013 at 12:41 pm #

    I’m watching President Obama speaking from Galesburg, IL. He finishes what is supposed to be a key line and there is an odd hesitation of audience quiet and then a burst of applause. Somebody with better reaction time needs to take over the operation of the APPLAUSE sign.

  136. Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 12:44 pm #

    I’m watching President Obama speaking from Galesburg, IL

    Who does this but you…..watches presidential speeches? Seriously? Don’t you think making love to your wife with your MIL’s ear to the floor would be a more worthwhile endeavor? It’s more exciting when you know someone’s listening, let alone watching.

    • Q. Shtik July 24, 2013 at 12:49 pm #

      Thus ends our respite from soft porn.

      • Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 12:50 pm #

        That’s not soft porn…it’s horror!!

        • Janos Skorenzy July 24, 2013 at 12:55 pm #

          You must love Carlos Danger, Weiner Dog of the year.

          • beantownbill. July 24, 2013 at 1:00 pm #

            What a mess, and a sorry example of my people. If I ever leave veganism, I’ll never eat another hot dog again!

  137. beantownbill. July 24, 2013 at 12:57 pm #

    Sigh. Q, I, for one, like your comments – both in style and content.

    Sorry, Procon, but I have to usurp your role, at least temporarily, in naming Resident Impediments. Carol Newquist is now the new Queen RI (regardless of her real gender). Long live the Queen!

    • Janos Skorenzy July 24, 2013 at 1:02 pm #

      Ever try the Vietmanese Sandwich shop at the corner of Washington and Kneeland? The fish sauce is to die for.

      • beantownbill. July 24, 2013 at 1:04 pm #

        No, but I do like Vietnamese food, and next time I’m in the area, I’ll try it.

        • Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 1:12 pm #

          You must be one fat bastard, all the eating you do. You’re probably one of those slobs sitting around eating garbage like the ones you see on Diners, Drive-ins and Dives. I bet I’ve seen you sitting at a table behind Guy Fieri in one of the episodes….the guy with the oxygen tank and tube clipped to the bottom of his nose eating a deep-fried oyster po-boy smothered in a béchamel sauce topped with deep-fried onion rings and butter finger crumbles.

          • beantownbill. July 24, 2013 at 2:22 pm #

            Shit, Carol, you must have tie-ins with the NSA to spy on me when I’m eating. And my oxygen tank is a state-of-the-art unit with a computer-controlled intake valve cum subcutaneous blood oxygen sensor.

            Having spied on me, you must be salivating to meet me. I pack a lot of hard muscle in my 5’1″, 392 pound frame, you know.

            FYI, the oozing acne sores on my face have all healed up. Come and get it while the the time is right.

    • Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 1:06 pm #

      I like Q Schmuck’s comments as well, but for different reasons, beantownbill the jewish gun rights supporter. In particular, this comment from Q Schmuck was one of his finest, wouldn’t you agree?

      Q. Shtik July 23, 2013 at 9:08 pm

      Kill all the white babies.

      Sweet!! Enjoyable! Like a breath of fresh air. What’s not to like?

      • Janos Skorenzy July 24, 2013 at 1:17 pm #

        Did he really say that? I hate him now! Thanks for speaking truth to power.

      • Janos Joplin July 24, 2013 at 1:20 pm #

        This is deeply disturbing. I’m also shocked. This Q person is a traitor to his race.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 24, 2013 at 1:07 pm #

      The Deli is certainly one of the greatest Jewish contributions to Civilization.

      What do you think of the Kosher food scam? What ever happened with that Chinese guy in Brookline Village who had signed up for Kosher thinking it would help his business? He found it didn’t and wanted to get out of it, but he wasn’t sure there was a way out.

  138. Janos Skorenzy July 24, 2013 at 1:00 pm #

    Rush is brilliant: Anthony Weiner and Huma Abedin are the new Bill and Hillary. How appropriate that neither is White since that is “our” future. What a face on Tony though – a really Kali Yuga visage.

  139. Q. Shtik July 24, 2013 at 1:03 pm #

    Anyhow, you seem to only have a well developed intuitive grasp of the English language, but that’s as far as your competency goes. UFIA

    Completely true. I have never claimed otherwise. I operate strictly by ear. I couldn’t explain the rules of grammar if my life depended on it.

  140. beantownbill. July 24, 2013 at 1:08 pm #

    Is it just me, or is the time function in the comments section off a little?

    • Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 1:14 pm #

      It’s just you….your pacemaker’s off a little.

  141. Janos Skorenzy July 24, 2013 at 1:15 pm #

    The new Prince’s name is George. Perhaps he will be the one to drive out the Muslims. Sorry to say his Father and Uncle aren’t the men to do it. They’re fine young men but lack the fire and moral courage that makes for real leadership.

    Of course I would prefer a Stuart to be on the Throne instead of the Windsor usurpers. But it’s time to put the old hatreds aside. The battle is bigger now – for the very survival of the White Race and Western Civilization.

  142. Janos Joplin July 24, 2013 at 1:18 pm #

    The Deli is certainly one of the greatest Jewish contributions to Civilization.

    The Atomic Bomb has the Deli beat, imo.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 24, 2013 at 1:41 pm #

      Yes Saint Einstein regretted his role in that. Other Jews did too and made reparation by giving the secret (and perhaps the materials) to the Soviet Union – thus creating the modern world of mutual assured destruction. But the Germans weren’t that close after all. And the Soviets turned against their Jewish Masters after the War. Joe Stalin got that much right anyway.

      Saint Einstein is the title of a book that tries to demythologize Einstein and his work. Appropriate since he has been one of the chief subjects of the Jewish propaganda machine. The man was a Zionist and he took work from other scientists without giving any credit to them.

      • Janos Joplin July 24, 2013 at 1:55 pm #

        I was thinking Oppenheimer. Without his project management skills, it wouldn’t have gotten built, at least not built with any efficacy and the war would have been over, and the scientific community would have turned against the notion of an atomic bomb. But thankfully we have it now, and when the time is right, and it may be right very soon, we can end this misery once and for all, hence the greatest contribution.

  143. janet July 24, 2013 at 1:24 pm #

    The time function is working perfectly. (note conversational indentation)

  144. janet July 24, 2013 at 1:27 pm #

    fine young men with fire and moral courage … LOL!

    Idiots willing to be led to slaughter because they believe violence solves all problems and then they are posthumously called heroes.

  145. janet July 24, 2013 at 1:35 pm #

    Cancel Detroit’s debt. The banks owe us.

  146. janet July 24, 2013 at 1:50 pm #

    “Jewish propaganda machine”?

    Does the machine have a URL?

    Sometimes I feel a need for some Jewish propaganda to balance out the white supremacist propaganda you spew on CFN.

    • Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 1:58 pm #

      LOL! Similar to the mafia, it uses Delis as front organizations to conduct its nefarious activities and launder its dirty money.

  147. janet July 24, 2013 at 2:07 pm #

    For what we spend on few weeks of war we could bail out Detroit.

    http://costofwar.com

    Just leave Afghanistan a few weeks earlier than planned.

    Why can spend billions on Baghdad or Kabul, yet not rescue Detroit?

  148. janet July 24, 2013 at 2:18 pm #

    Obama is interested in “”rebuilding our manufacturing base, educating our workforce, [and] upgrading our transportation and information networks.” [from today’s speech]

    With the help of Congress Obama has also installed a new EPA leader and she is focused on climate change challenges. Action now means we will not have to pay trillions of dollars later.

    • beantownbill. July 24, 2013 at 2:33 pm #

      Listen to UFIA’s podcast link. Even if we stop all man-made CO2 emissions today, climate change will not cease for hundreds, even thousands of years. No matter what, we’ll be spending trillions of dollars dealing with it. The continuing process is now baked in the cake.

      • Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 2:47 pm #

        I was wondering what the “Nothing Can Be Done Because It’s Baked In The Cake” angle was meant to accomplish. This is it. Thanks btb. It’s being used as justification to mitigate any government spending on infrastructure improvement projects. Brilliant. They’re burning both ends, and the middle, of the candle. They have it all covered. Maybe they can build bunkers hundreds of miles thick with all the cash they’re accumulating since they have nothing else to spend it on.

  149. janet July 24, 2013 at 2:32 pm #

    Boehner has revealed the Republican plan to make America better:

    Labor Dept. 13% cut

    AMTRAK 33% cut

    IRS budget 24% cut (it was investigating rich folks)

    SEC budget 18% cut (what could go wrong?)

    Fish and Wildlife Service 27% cut

    EPA clean water grants 83% cut (who needs clean water anyway?)

    Low income education grants 16% cut (the poor don’t need college)

    Community development grants 50% cut

    Alternative energy development 75% cut

    Affordable Care Act 100% cut

    Today Obama said we need to raise the minimum wage because it is LOWER TODAY THAN UNDER REAGAN.

    Of course, Republicans will oppose that, too.

    But some of you will continue to say there isn’t a “dime’s worth of difference” between the two parties.

    • beantownbill. July 24, 2013 at 2:44 pm #

      It’s not the process that makes the two parties alike, it’s the outcome. Both parties will most likely lead to our ruin. I’m not a member of either party, but you have to be honest. Can you tell me that Democrats have never done anything wrong? If not, then don’t castigate one party, but both parties. If you believe The Democratic Party is better than the Republican, fine, but at least don’t imply the dems are perfect, which you do most of the time by always blaming the Republicans.

      Didn’t Asoka say Obama is a war criminal?

      • anti dod July 24, 2013 at 3:31 pm #

        ‘Didn’t Asoka say Obama is a war criminal?’
        Did you on 1 or 2 occasions post you would ignore ‘entity’ or do I have you confused w someone else?

        • beantownbill. July 24, 2013 at 7:54 pm #

          Yeah, I did. They have most of the posts here, including others’ replies to their comments, so I guess I slipped and replied. After today, I’m going cold turkey again.

    • Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 2:54 pm #

      I believe the Dem party has more compassionate, empathic and convincing rhetoric. Unfortunately, that rhetoric doesn’t translate into action that supports it. I understand your tact, though, and I don’t blame you. The pigs here will ply the unwitting to attack Obama and the Dems in order to slide them over to their conservative agenda. It’s an obvious ruse, so I appreciate your counter to it to keep things somewhat balanced.

  150. janet July 24, 2013 at 2:58 pm #

    Asoka was right about that. But you have set up a straw man. I have never said the Democrats never make mistakes or that they are perfect.

    Clinton, for example, gave us NAFTA. But your contention is naive.

    Can you tell me that Democrats have never done anything wrong? If not, then don’t castigate one party, but both parties.

    Sounds like you are saying unless a party is perfect you will not support it. Completely unrealistic. Not pragmatic.

    On some points the parties are similar. Both parties accept big money. I want campaign finance reform, more transparency. There is more chance of that happening through Democratic Party initiatives. To ignore that is to show your ignorance of party platforms.

    To pretend that both parties should be equally castigated is ingenuous. Neither party is perfect, but there are clear differences between them.

  151. Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 2:58 pm #

    Wow, this would have been ironic. This family escapes death on the highway and is rescued by Zimmerman only to be gunned down viciously in a press conference thanking him for his public service. They were frightened to say thank you publicly. That’s a sad statement.

    http://gma.yahoo.com/family-rescued-george-zimmerman-backs-news-conference-172156952–abc-news-topstories.html

    Zimmerman’s lawyer, Mark O’Mara, said the family had asked to speak, but then got concerned about the anger surrounding the controversial verdict.

    “The family called because they wanted to address the media. I knew that if we did it in an organized way, it would help them get back to a normal life.. But they called today and said they were more worried about blow back from saying anything that would be favorable to George, and decided they did not want to do any media,” Zimmerman said.

  152. janet July 24, 2013 at 3:23 pm #

    Carol: Unfortunately, that rhetoric doesn’t translate into action that supports it.

    Beantown: It’s not the process that makes the two parties alike, it’s the outcome.

    Your cynicism is not always justified.

    Look at the rhetoric of both parties in 2008. McCain was gung ho GWOT and was not talking about leaving Iraq. He was talking surges. Increasing troops. More war.

    Obama was talking ending the war in Iraq. Well, it took Obama three years but he did exactly what his rhetoric said he would do and ended USA troop involvement in Iraq.

    Sometimes you can take people at their word. For circumstances outside their control (other branches of government) they may not be able to achieve the outcome. But sometimes they can. And just as the rhetoric is very different, the outcomes are very different.

  153. Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 3:34 pm #

    Sometimes you can take people at their word.

    I pay no attention whatsoever to the words of politicians except to evaluate its tenor. I don’t believe a word they say, and if actions sometimes match the rhetoric, it’s serendipitous and certainly not for the reasons cited in the rhetoric.

    Yes, the U.S. pulled out of Iraq, and overall, that’s a good thing, but it’s not the whole picture. The U.S. didn’t pull out of the globe, just one small part, and it’s questionable it was even a legitimate pull out.

    Listen janet, I’m not a conservative right winger, but I’m no progressive/liberal either. The side you’re advocating is just as clever and deceptive as the other side, and I would say even more so since they pretend to be something they’re not.

    Remember, I don’t believe anyone’s bullshit; not your’s, not bill’s and certainly not my own.

    • beantownbill. July 24, 2013 at 8:01 pm #

      Finally! Something I can agree with you on.

  154. Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 3:42 pm #

    janet, I’m glad you mentioned election finance reform. This should bring back some memories. Obama and the Dems had a chance to put their intent into action by accepting McCain’s challenge to use public financing in 2008. Obviously, Obama ignored that challenge. Why is that, if what you say is true about Dems and election finance reform? Keep in mind, I didn’t support McCain and think he’s as much a puppet as Obama, but that doesn’t preclude what I’m retorting here.

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/04/mccain-challenges-obama-on-pub.html

    Sen. John McCain prodded Sen. Barack Obama Friday to live up to a past commitment to accept public funds for the general election, telling his potential rival, “Keep your promise to the American people.”

    Responding to comments made earlier Friday, in which the Illinois senator continued to hedge about whether he would opt out of the public financing system if he is the Democratic nominee, McCain said Obama is “saying one thing and doing another” on the issue.

    McCain said he remains committed to accepting public funds in the fall, but only if his Democratic opponent, whether Obama or Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, agrees. “If Senator Obama doesn’t, we will examine to take it or not,” he said.

    Asked under what conditions he might not take the federal funds, he replied, “A little straight talk: How it benefits us. How it’s most beneficial to us.”

    Obama, McCain and Clinton all have opted out of taking public funds during the primaries, decisions that allow them to raise and spend unlimited amounts of money until the nominating conventions this summer. But Obama signed a pledge last year to take public financing in a general election campaign if the Republican nominee agreed to do the same.

    Since then he has wavered, in part because of the extraordinary success his campaign has had raising funds from both small and large donors. On Friday, he described the campaign finance system as “creaky,” a description with which McCain agreed. But the Arizona senator, author of the most recent campaign finance reform legislation, said that, in contrast to Obama, “I have a record” on the issue.

  155. janet July 24, 2013 at 3:48 pm #

    I concede the point. McCain called his bluff and Obama did not follow through on his “pledge”

    I’m glad you don’t believe anybody’s bullshit.

    • Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 3:52 pm #

      Thank you for conceding, and I will concede the only reason McCain called his bluff was because Obama was raising more money than him and we all know he (for now) who raises the most money, wins the election. In otherwords, McCain’s reasons were not magnanimous, but I’m glad he called Obama’s bluff just the same.

  156. BackRowHeckler July 24, 2013 at 3:52 pm #

    Detroit is already out of the news. That place was written off decades ago. Right now the action is on Wall Street, where investment guru Ric Edelman states the Dow will top 100,000 by 2020.

    By the time September rolls around who will remember Zimmerman/Martin? Not many.

    BRH

    • Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 4:06 pm #

      Yes, the pace of the spectacles is Fast n Furious. I fully expect, at this rate, the alien invasion by 2020…and it will be televised, unlike the revolution.

    • Neon Vincent July 24, 2013 at 4:59 pm #

      Wall Street, where the Dow and S&P 500 both hit record intraday highs, then closed down for the day. That’s a sterling sign of confidence in the market–not!

      I’ll counter with some Michigan news about one of the attempts to stave off the effects of Peak Oil–tar sands. The local group of anti-tar-sands activists staged a protest against the Enbridge pipeline, which crosses the state north of Detroit, the day before yesterday. Twelve were reported arrested and eleven charged. Added to the fellow who climbed into the pipeline last month, and a full dozen have been cited for trespassing, five of them for felonies in addition.

      crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/2013/07/eleven-charged-in-protests-against-tar.html

      • ozone July 24, 2013 at 6:00 pm #

        N.V.,
        How dast you interrupt the duopolistic circle-jerk that is the wonder of the Ja’soka-Newsquirt consortium??
        I’m shocked… shocked I tell you!

        Mud-huttery and elitist ‘spheres of influence’. How should we consider any other perspective/viewpoint to have any legitimacy whatsoever? (Yes, I’m hanging my head in shame just typing this small squeaking against the conventional wisdom-s excreted by the consortium. I know… I’ll scourge myself later; that should please their masters.)

  157. Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 4:45 pm #

    Speaking of spectacles, this is too funny. At least they were equal opportunity about it and included brown ones much to Mr. Falafel-Loofah’s chagrin.

    https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/p480x480/1006278_479528125475502_1982088189_n.jpg

  158. janet July 24, 2013 at 5:11 pm #

    This is a list of what Obama says he wants.

    ** Good jobs with good wages.

    ** An education that prepares our children and our workers for a new economy.

    ** A home to call your own.

    ** Affordable health care when you get sick.

    ** A secure retirement even if you’re not rich.

    Obama won the election for a second time, so why is he out campaigning for middle class security?

    Shouldn’t he just go on semi-permanent vacation like Bush and Reagan did?

  159. Q. Shtik July 24, 2013 at 5:19 pm #

    Is it just me, or is the time function in the comments section off a little? Bean

    I pointed this out when JHK first started up the revamped blog. I am going to click submit at 6:10 eastern time and it will record approx. 5:18.

  160. janet July 24, 2013 at 5:22 pm #

    According to the master atomic clock ensemble at the U.S. Naval Observatory in Washington D.C., CFN is showing the correct time.

    Maybe the country’s master clock is in error, but I doubt it.

    • Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 5:47 pm #

      Maybe the country’s master clock is in error, but I doubt it.

      You might want to rephrase that. With the likes of Janos posting to this blog, some may find you in league with that racist with a statement like that. Master is a dirty word. I try not to use it myself.

  161. Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 5:25 pm #

    Obama won the election for a second time, so why is he out campaigning for middle class security?

    That’s a great question, and one for which I do not yet have an answer. I know the pigs here will say he’s doing it to pander to his base, or what is oft touted officially as his base, but as I’ve said before, that traditionally touted base is a lock. There’s no need to pander to it.

  162. Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 5:33 pm #

    I pointed this out when JHK first started up the revamped blog. I am going to click submit at 6:10 eastern time and it will record approx. 5:18.

    Well shit, maybe he should drop whatever he’s doing, like writing his next book, or recording his next podcast, or thinking up Monday’s blog post to fix a clock no one but you two bozos gives a shit about. Get real, you fruitcake. Fix it yourself if you don’t like it.

    And also whilst I’m at it, what a low-down, weaselly thing to do revealing the name of JHK’s tech manager. That email he sent to you was in confidence and you turn around and divulge at least part of what was in it to include his personal information. This is so you. It’s been you your entire life. You’re the guy who turns the Jews over to the Nazis when he finds them hiding under the stairwell or in the attic. You are scum.

  163. BackRowHeckler July 24, 2013 at 5:35 pm #

    Incidentally, Jim, what the hell is with all the surgery? Neck, Hip, Knees. Before you know it you’ll be like the axe my neighbor owned. He had it all his life; only had to replace the handle 4 times and the blade 3 times. Then who exactly will be writing your blog each week? Jim? Or replacement Jim?

    BRH

    • Carol Newquist July 24, 2013 at 5:40 pm #

      It’s increasingly A Body Made By Hand….the hands of surgeons….the craftsmen of our time. You have to admit though, despite all the surgeries, he’s still as handsome as the Dickens. A regular cutie.

  164. janet July 24, 2013 at 5:58 pm #

    I’m still waiting for the Tea Party, Constitutionalists, Conservatives, etc. to protest the Federal takeover of the state and city bankruptcy cases in Detroit. Hang onto your pocketbook, the Republicans are going to be taking more money from you… until you are bankrupt.

    In the ’80s, Republican stock brockers paid Congress to enact legislation to force everyone to use their Wall Street approved FUNDS instead of having their own investor control their pension fund.

    Now it’s not just Detroit. Everyone’s pension and 401k is subject to being sold as worthless mortgage derivatives (“HorseShit”) that Wall Street dumbasses invented.

    Good thing the Republicans never got hold of our Social Security money. America would have been totally bankrupt 6 years ago.

    • ozone July 24, 2013 at 6:17 pm #

      And we’re still waiting for you to add something relevant to the paradigm of the collapse of the ‘Murkin Suburban Dreamy-Dream, or in lieu of that, pissing off to somewhere more pleasing to your pretended views. (They’ll have more appreciation of “free spew” there, I’m told in strictest confidence.)
      Guess we’ll be waiting until the fabled 12th of Never… and that’s a long, long time.

  165. janet July 24, 2013 at 6:44 pm #

    Well, since you asked, ozone, the point is that not all the news today was bankruptcy in Detroit. It ain’t all gloom and doom, ozone. Today Meijer celebrated the opening of its first store built within the city of Detroit with a rare party featuring white-clothed tables and waiters circulating with glasses of wine.

    The store (Built on the former Michigan State Fairgrounds) creates about 550 full and part-time jobs in Detroit.

    “The opening of Detroit’s first Meijer store means new jobs, continued economic growth and greater convenience for the residents of our city,” said Detroit Mayor Dave Bing in a statement. “As the anchor of the new Gateway Marketplace shopping center, Meijer represents another important business investment that is transforming Detroit into a retail destination.”

    The 190,000-square-foot supercenter is the same size store Meijer traditionally builds in suburban areas, but it features touches unique to its urban setting. There is one entrance instead of two. The cavernous store’s ceiling is checkered with skylights, giving the space an open, airy feel. Meijer’s trademark expansive produce section is located in the center of store so it’s is the first sight shoppers see when they enter the store.

    • ozone July 24, 2013 at 6:57 pm #

      As you have splurted afore: “Meh”.
      (BTW, I forgot to read all that stuff you just typed. Uncannily, I guessed at the content!)

    • Neon Vincent July 25, 2013 at 9:39 am #

      With Meijer’s opening, Detroit now has two national or regional supermarket chain outlets in the city, the other being Whole Foods in Midtown. At the beginning of June, it had none. If any CFN readers want to see the store, I have video from both the ribbon cutting ceremony and the actual opening embedded at Crazy Eddie’s Motie News.

      http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/2013/07/wxyz-videos-of-meijer-opening.html

  166. janet July 24, 2013 at 7:33 pm #

    That is OK, ozone.

    You are under no obligation to read what I post. Your “Meh” offends me not. As you say, I have used it before. Concise and communicative.

    I am under no obligation to defend the “‘Murkin Suburban Dreamy-Dream” and its continued spread at the expense of proximate farming land, which is precisely the opposite of a climate responsive urban growth pattern.

  167. Janos Skorenzy July 24, 2013 at 9:05 pm #

    Coleman Young was the MFIC – Mother Fucker In Charge when it came to Detroit. And he wanted it be all Black and Black controlled no matter how poor and wretched. Like Mugabe in Zimbabwe. Blacks would rather rule in Hell than serve in Heaven.

    http://www.wvwnews.net/content/index.php?/news_story/limbaugh_black_seperatists_killed_detroit.html

  168. janet July 24, 2013 at 9:17 pm #

    John McCain — owes the American taxpayer many hundreds of thousands of dollars for all the training jets he crashed while hotdogging and showing off.

    During the course of his flying career with the U.S. Navy, John McCain was involved in at least five major mishaps or crashes involving his plane.

    The Corpus Christi accident on March 12, 1960: the AD-6 Skyraider trainer crashed because McCain failed to “maintain an airspeed above the stall speed.” The single-engine prop plane sank to the bottom of Corpus Christi Bay.

    With a T-2 trainer jet in November 1965, while flying between New York City and Norfolk, Va. The Naval Aviation Safety Center was unable to determine the precise cause of the accident or the degree of pilot error. McCain wrote later that his engine “flamed out” and he had to eject.

    In his autobiography, McCain recalls another mishap around December 1961 when “I knocked down some power lines while flying too low over southern Spain. My daredevil clowning had cut off electricity to a great many Spanish homes and created a small international incident.”

    And his “daredevil clowning” (McCain’s words) cost the American taxpayers hard-earned dollars and for his antics he has never repaid America.

    McCain made good propaganda films for the enemy. Better than Jane Fonda ever could.

  169. janet July 24, 2013 at 9:20 pm #

    BTW, McCain’s claim that he crashed into Corpus Christi Bay in December 1960 after his “engine quit” is a considerable stretch. U.S. Navy Safety records make clear that the plane crashed because his power setting was too low and he was failing to pay sufficient attention to his landing pattern. Idiot that he is.

  170. Pucker July 24, 2013 at 10:47 pm #

    Whatever happened to Snowden?

    Is he still stuck in the Moscow airport?

    Why doesn’t some foreign woman offer to marry him so that he can get a visa somewhere?

    A woman could do a lot worse.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 24, 2013 at 11:27 pm #

      The Red Haired Russian Spy who got kicked out of America offered to.

    • Nastarana July 25, 2013 at 6:50 am #

      A guy who can pull down 200,000 annually with no discernible credentials could support and educate a pretty large set of siblings and cousins.

  171. janet July 24, 2013 at 10:54 pm #

    Snowden may have disappeared from the airport. No one really knows where he is.

    My guess is Snowden is on a boat to Venezuela because he can’t fly anywhere. But he can easily be smuggled on a boat.

    Rhino of course thought the superpower (America) would be able to keep track of him and kidnap him if he left the airport. Rhino never thought Snowden would be able to elude authorities.

  172. Janos Skorenzy July 24, 2013 at 11:26 pm #

    Jimmy Carter says America is no longer a Democracy. At last someone in the mainstream is speaking out. And perhaps it is significant as the late, great Helen Thomas reminded us, that the Carter Administration was the last one to be not controlled by the Zionists.

    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2013/07/18/is-america-a-free-country-2/

    Ozone agrees with me about this.

  173. janet July 24, 2013 at 11:27 pm #

    “On climate change, either we take real action, or millions will die,” Democratic Senate candidate Rush Holt candidly told voters in an Internet-only campaign ad released Monday.

    Holt, who refers to himself as an energy scientist during his 15 seconds on camera, has a Ph.D. in physics and has taught the subject at Swarthmore College. Holt has also received the endorsement of seven Nobel laureates.

  174. Pucker July 24, 2013 at 11:30 pm #

    Can anyone recommend any good encrypted dating website services that perhaps a woman somewhere desperate to get married can contact Snowden via? Thanks.

  175. janet July 24, 2013 at 11:41 pm #

    What level of encryption?

  176. Pucker July 25, 2013 at 12:34 am #

    Janet asks: “What level of encryption?”

    One that they can talk dirty on.

  177. janet July 25, 2013 at 12:59 am #

    Pucker, do you know how to use search engines? You can find what you are looking for instead of posting to CFN.

    We want to keep CFN focused on Detroit this week.

  178. janet July 25, 2013 at 1:18 am #

    Detroit may be able to follow Pittsburgh’s example. Pittsburgh had begun to decline after hitting a peak population of nearly 680,000 in 1950 and that accelerated when Pittsburgh’s steel industry base disintegrated in the early 1980s. In the 60 years following the city’s peak, the population fell to just over 300,000.

    Concerted blight removal efforts in Pittsburgh have been underway for more than two decades, with abandoned land turned into green space and parks. The city still has more than 10,000 abandoned buildings, but local groups say that is a manageable number. Home prices have ticked up an average of 3.3 percent annually over the past decade and the population rose by a few thousand from 2010 to 2012.

    Ernie Hogan, executive director of the Pittsburgh Community Reinvestment Group, said the focus now is on reconstructing abandoned homes for new owners instead of demolition.

    “The question now is how do we stop tearing down these assets?” he said.

  179. Elmendorf July 25, 2013 at 1:38 am #

    As Ozone muses above, this blog has become little more than a circle jerk for Ja’Soka and Caroloka Assquist. Just count people!! In the posts of just the last ten hours, “The Clone sisters” are responsible for 23 out of 39 posts. I counted them. Ozone, like myself, has become a “pop in, pop out” kind of guy and he had a small spate of posts today as did Janos.

    This blog faces its own “clusterfuck” … the women (or ersatz women) lower the intellectual content of the blog and you still have the problem that people are logged in as someone else. Both Janet and Carol, whoever the hell they are, are a caricature of themselves because both have frequently implied that the male members here have paltry lives. I submit that when ANY person AVERAGES 20 posts per day relentlessly, week after week after week, they have no real existence.

    I’m retired and I have ten times the existence that these women (or fake women) have because I’m too busy to sit on this place for 10 or 12 hours a day. I already told JHK that my opinion of him has taken a decided turn for the worse since he has no discernment about who to kick off and why. His thinking is pure racial liberalism at its worst i.e., males call females names they get kicked off, females aim scurrilous insults at men and they get a “warning”.

    I’m calling you out, Kunstler. If you’re going to get rid of the blog (and why would you keep this POS), then do it instead of just kvetching about what an embarrassment it has been for years. Make your tech guys make multiple identities impossible or get rid of the blog. I agree that it’s an embarrassment but not for the reasons you do, I’m sure. Janos has come back and I trust you think of him as a scourge because, well, you’re a liberal and you don’t cotton to white goyim talking about racial issues.

    And the amazing thing about discussions of race is that if anyone merely OPINES about non-Jewish Caucasians it’s open season but if people cite DATA about blacks, Hispanics, Jews, or any other minority ethnicity, it’s racism. America needs a discussion about race … BADLY. However, that discussion, like all sentient discussion must be DATA DRIVEN. The liberal prosecution of Zimmerman and the exoneration of Martin is DISGUSTING.

    So what’s it going to be, James? I say the blog should be eliminated and restarted from scratch with better technical identity controls. Thereafter, there should be a DAILY LIMIT ON POSTS. No one should be allowed to make more than five posts per day or thereabouts. No one should be allowed to make FORTY posts in one day. They become the “noise” and the “signal” drops into the background, disappears, and you have the ruined blog that you now write on.

    E.

    • Nastarana July 25, 2013 at 7:22 am #

      I would suggest that when someone averages 20+ posts per day over time, that person is being paid to post.

      Carol, Janet, et al seem to me to be a planted neo-con tag team I have seen their like elsewhere. I doubt they are a single person. The purpose of such tag teams is to disrupt discussion. I believe they were assigned to this particular blog because of the kind of people it attracts.

      Janos is quite useful, although not for the reasons he thinks, and ought not to be discouraged. If the collapse of civilized life proceeds as JHK thinks it will guys (and gals) like Janos will be one of the greatest dangers self reliant persons and communities will face.

      • ozone July 25, 2013 at 7:53 am #

        That is also my opinion and K-dog’s as well. (He can certainly speak for himself, but I know he’d agree.)
        …And now back to the Projection Smear Fest; one of the nastiest tricks in the psy-ops bag! (Ain’t America just the wonderfulest place in the whole damn Universe?)

      • ozone July 25, 2013 at 9:05 am #

        Only my personal paranoia speaking, but I see this flood of disinformation, distraction and outright propaganda to be the desperate flailings of a beast that knows its’ demise is imminent.
        Things are progressing much faster than most of the conventional-wisdom/manure-spreader types had predicted. Infrastructure breakdown, ice melt, drought persistence, economic dissolution, social strife… ETC. To those paying attention, devil-may-care estimates that we’ve got til 2040/2050 before we have to change anything about the way we “inhabit the landscape” are more than highly optimistic, they’re downright dangerous and hubristic.

        • K-Dog July 25, 2013 at 12:09 pm #

          Trying the video again.

          http://youtu.be/YWyCCJ6B2WE

          The post on my site this week might be a bit sparse, I’ve been reading so much.

          Two books by Edward Bernays – Propaganda, Crystalizing Public Opinion. I finished those already and now I’m halfway through Public Opinion by Walter Lippmann.

          These men were instrumental in pioneering a version of the Ministry of Fear and Control in their time and learned how to sell wars and manipulate the public. I think they found the public so trusting and easy to deceive using techniques inspired by the new science of psychology (if that is what psychology is) that they developed a disdain for the common man. In any case they seem to have developed an attitude that only ‘experts’ really have a right to democracy and decision making. For only the superior can truly understand the world as they see it.

          Which is why, 80+ years later a Ministry of Fear and Control has been put here to wish you and I,

          Happy Hunger Games !!

          The “flood of disinformation, distraction and outright propaganda turns out to have a rich history. It has been put here from the belief that only an elite with the privilege of being well informed and endowed with critical thinking is capable of participating in democracy. Everyone else needs to be told what to do and think, for their own good. Public Opinion should be deliberately managed and created for the great good of society.

          In developing the skills necessary to blow smoke up asses these men gave themselves a big healthy dose up their own.

          I’m also seeing Ayn Rand ripped her bullshit philosophy straight from the pages of Bernays. I had aquired this belief and then before my eyes Bernays uses the phrase “enlightened self interest” in his book Propaganda.

          It’s enough to make you cough up a hairball.

          • Janos Skorenzy July 25, 2013 at 1:20 pm #

            And Toto too. You have to learn to think in new categories. I’m just a Man whose intentions are gut. O Lord, please don’t let me be misunderstood.

            Seriously though, White Nationalists are the most hated group in America. You don’t see Carol Asoka ever plugging us – ever. Whitman’s America is a Chorus of Voices. And you are trying to remove us – the Basso Profundos.

          • Janos Skorenzy July 25, 2013 at 1:33 pm #

            What ethnic group were Bernays and Lippmann? Is it the same one as controls Hollywood and “the News”? You’ve never commented on this question. Even Ozone has albeit covertly with links. Time to stand up Dog. Or are you just going to lift your leg and urinate? Don’t hump our legs and then tell us it’s raining.

      • Janos Skorenzy July 25, 2013 at 1:15 pm #

        That’s a low blow Nasta. I’m no danger to anyone who is doesn’t bother me. The Black hordes are the greatest danger. After that will come the Hispanics. And only after them come various White Gangs, including disenfranchised police and military groups.

        But your statement does follow typical psychology. In dangerous situations, people who try to warn potential victims become the bad guy while the sweet talking thug is just confirmed as being the good guy. You are a woman in other words.

        If you have any rational capacity: How does warning people about Blacks make me evil? You people and the Feds slander Whites all the time. And as Coleman Young said, “The way to deal with discrimination is to reverse it”. That’s all I’m doing. If Liberals would stop race baiting then we would too. Just let everyone and everything find its own level. That means Blacks on the bottom. I didn’t create them the way they are. I’m just calling it as it is.

    • anti dod July 25, 2013 at 10:54 am #

      You forgot ‘karah’.

  180. Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 7:43 am #

    My guess is Snowden is on a boat to Venezuela because he can’t fly anywhere. But he can easily be smuggled on a boat.

    Rhino of course thought the superpower (America) would be able to keep track of him and kidnap him if he left the airport. Rhino never thought Snowden would be able to elude authorities.

    Or better yet, a sub…..like the drug dealers are using to transport their cocaine to Mexico.

    Yeah, Rhino, the Little Eichman. What a corporate bootlicker. He’s almost as noxious as that E. pedophile. Have you noticed this E. character didn’t come back as his name under the old format? Why is that? If he was banned, why? If he was banned, he has the nerve to call for the banning of others? I’m with you, janet, I consider banning to be electronic lynching…it’s Naziesque, but that’s not surprising considering the majority who post here. Look at Nastarana’s treatment of Janos; a nuisance, yes, but one who can be tolerated if he’s discouraged. This thing, Nastarana, is a nasty creep, and I’m convinced one of the cabal responsible for the hate-mail JHK received that he posted a while back. E. now claims he has a life and is busy with that life so doesn’t have time to post. Maybe he hasn’t been posting much because he’s been busy with a failed caper and now he’s on the lamb after trying to abduct a lamb.

    http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Police-Boy-Escapes-Trunk-After-Abduction-216727601.html

    Philadelphia police say a 9-year-old boy was abducted while playing at a city recreation center, but later escaped from a car trunk.

    Investigators say it happened Tuesday afternoon in the city’s East Germantown section. Philly.com reports police say the boy was grabbed by a white man in his 50s, who put the boy in the trunk of an older model gray Ford sedan and drove off.

    Police say that the man stopped after about 30 minutes and opened up the trunk at an unknown location. The boy then fled and was found by a woman who called police.

    The police department’s Special Victims Unit is investigating and searching for the suspect.

    Turn yourself in E. You’re busted.

  181. progress4what July 25, 2013 at 7:50 am #

    Bill, E, Nastarana –

    You are correct that the “Trolling Twosome” destroy whatever potential this comment thread might eventually have.

    JAMES HOWARD KUNSTLER should ban it (the Trolling Twosome plus “nicole”) on the grounds that it is causing harm to him commercially.

    Either that, or shut down the comments section.

    • anti dod July 25, 2013 at 10:54 am #

      Karah rules! They are multitudes.

  182. Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 7:51 am #

    A guy who can pull down 200,000 annually with no discernible credentials could support and educate a pretty large set of siblings and cousins.

    Ummmm….not sure what the hell you’re implying here, but if you’re referring to him supporting some Russian female looking for a Sugar Daddy, you’re mistaken, or do you absurdly believe he still draws a salary and has access to any savings and investments since he’s been on the lamb? He’s a liability, not a Sugar Daddy.

    Oh, and you forgot the dollar sign. It looks like this; $.

  183. Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 7:57 am #

    Ernie Hogan, executive director of the Pittsburgh Community Reinvestment Group, said the focus now is on reconstructing abandoned homes for new owners instead of demolition.

    Thank you for bringing the topic back to Detroit where it belongs, janet. Yes, Pittsburgh is a great example of what can be for Detroit with a little imagination and perseverance. Detroit, like Pittsburgh before it, can come back leaner, meaner and more robust. This is what the U.S. military has claimed it’s wanted to do for years now, but can’t seem to accomplish because the Gravy Train just keeps on a rollin. Take that Gravy Train away, and it would have no choice but to get lean and mean….but that’s not possible because of the conservative retards who want to continue to enable a bloated Cold War relic.

  184. Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 8:04 am #

    Holt, who refers to himself as an energy scientist during his 15 seconds on camera, has a Ph.D. in physics and has taught the subject at Swarthmore College. Holt has also received the endorsement of seven Nobel laureates.

    When you see the name Nixon, not many positive thoughts come to mind, but believe it or not, he was as much an environmental president or more so than Carter, and for this he gets little to no credit.

    http://blog.nixonfoundation.org/2010/04/richard-nixon-and-the-rise-of-the-environment/

    As a 22 year-old staffer, it was DeMuth’s task to evaluate the recommendations of the various agencies and submit a balanced proposal to the President, who – as all three participants argued – was neither militant nor negligent in addressing environmental issues.

    DeMuth explained that the environment became an issue during an age of relative economic prosperity. As industry during the post-war economy grew, so did pollution levels. Many Americans – who reached a peak in their standard of living – were now demanding environmental quality.

    The passage of the National Environmental Policy Act, the establishment of the Environmental Protection Agency and the appointment of William Ruckelshaus as its Administrator is a testament to the seriousness of response by President Nixon.

    “He wasn’t personally gripped by it,” said Ruckelshaus. “But he saw that he had to respond to the demand. As a result we are much better off today. ”

    Beginning with Ruckelhaus’ tenure, the Nixon Administration successfully enacted 14 pieces of environmental legislation including the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act and the Marine Mammal Protection Act.

  185. Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 8:24 am #

    because of the kind of people it attracts

    Let’s describe this “kind of people,” shall we? Who wants to go first?

    • Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 8:31 am #

      Here’s an example of the “kind of people” JHK’s provocative writing attracts:

      Janos has come back and I trust you think of him as a scourge because, well, you’re a liberal and you don’t cotton to white goyim talking about racial issues.

      Anti-semitism oozes from that statement. It should not be left unchecked. It should be called out at every turn and beaten back, not by banning, but by standing one’s ground and challenging it wherever it rears its grotesque head.

    • progress4what July 25, 2013 at 8:44 am #

      OK –
      People like the creator of janetasoka and nicoleasoka.
      And the sexually inhibited, straight-male-fearing “carol.”

      In other words – people who should be banned.

      ======================

      Nastarana – I saw a cool community garden in Fulton County. It was behind a heavy locked gate, with passcode entry and protected by 24 hour security on government property. The plots were assigned to individuals. This could work. Maybe?

      • Nastarana July 25, 2013 at 9:07 am #

        I used to live in CA. The protection is necessary. Be sure you are keeping a close eye on your tools; I probably don’t need to tell you what a hot item garden tools are at flea markets. I am sure this project can and does work. I offer best wishes for it’s continued success.

        I respectfully suggest, the organizers and members should beware of the Rhinos out there. The middle managers who are currently mismanaging their corporate, govt. or non-profit offices or divisions, will soon be looking to transfer to leadership roles in the local community garden, private lending library, or tool rental.

        For the last time, Mme Carol, I don’t do anonymous hate mail; I prefer to tell folks to their faces what I think of them.

      • anti dod July 25, 2013 at 10:56 am #

        Wheres Fulton County?

  186. rube-i-con July 25, 2013 at 9:02 am #

    I hope everyone is noticing that Brazil is a basket case… a country touted by Rubicon and Asoka as a paradise.

    totally agree, this damn place is pathetic on so many levels – just look at the pope getting stuck in dangerous mobs of ‘pilgrims’.

    it’s great for fraternité, a bit of egalité, but has too much illegalité.

    peace peaceniks

  187. Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 9:06 am #

    janet and janos, since McCain was being discussed upstream, I thought you might appreciate this. Take a piss before viewing lest you wet your pants.

    http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/f2bb3db5af/apocalypse-john-from-themidnightshow-and-jamesadomian

  188. budizwiser July 25, 2013 at 9:06 am #

    So what will the “news” be from the city of Detroit?

    How will “reality” be played out?

    Peak Credit finally reached for one government – but the beat goes on for the rich. Does anyone really care if the bonds or pensions are payed out?

    Before we can get to a world made by hand – we have to get to a “world without hand outs.”

    And again I ask – who will stop the lending, the borrowing – the grifting?

    JK – who will address whether or not simply economically squeezing the middle class of the western world will provide for a nice slow decay of living standards. Living standards so slowly stripped away that no one notices the “new world” of mass-transportation, car-less families and and do-it-yourself – albeit -a hand-made world?

    Yes – JK – the apocalypse is here – but like frogs in the boiling pot of water – no one notes the change in temp.

    • ozone July 25, 2013 at 9:43 am #

      Budz,
      A little note on Vallejo’s pension promises is contained in the Reuters article below.
      (Oh, the temperature in the pot is rising rapidly and I’m noticing MANY more folks waking up to that fact. Thus all the BS-flinging and happy-talk to the effect of: “Why you big sillies; it’s not as hot as you think it is. Really; believe us; would we lie? Here, drink this Kool-Aid and concentrate on the flavorful, cooling goodness!”)

      • K-Dog July 25, 2013 at 12:29 pm #

        Kool-Aid with a purifying taste of almonds. Save the wrappers (if you can) for a framed 8″ x 10″ picture of Jim Jones standing with microphone, a Hawaiian lei around his neck.

  189. ozone July 25, 2013 at 9:30 am #

    Here’s some relaxing reading of a historical comparison nature regarding the sparkling future for Detroit! (Let’s just pretend that it’ll work out just dandy, shall we?)

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/25/us-usa-detroit-lessons-analysis-idUSBRE96O02R20130725

    AND, I got a nice ad on the page assuring me that BP (remember them?) is, “Committed to the Gulf. Committed to America.”
    I feel better now, don’t you?

    • stelmosfire July 25, 2013 at 11:37 am #

      Howdy 03, I can’t get used to this new site, then again I can’t use a cell phone! Orchards and gardens are good though. I have never seen the plants like this. Maybe it is the high heat and humidity? I remember when this was a peak oil site, not some Johnny come lately political hack site. It is good to see You, Marlin, LB,Quistk, and even Vlad back. Later, rippedthunder

      • ozone July 25, 2013 at 4:47 pm #

        Hiya, RT.
        Yes, the rampant growth is bordering on frightening! lol
        I have never seen tomato plants so lush or cucumbers develop so quickly. It’s fun to watch, but the fungal growth might have some bad side effects. (Allergy sufferers seem to be having a hard time of it.)

  190. janet July 25, 2013 at 11:41 am #

    E. said New Mexico’s drought is a permanent state.

    July 24, 2013 : Doppler radar indicated very heavy rain from several slow moving thunderstorms from the Albuquerque South Valley to Bosque farms, Los Lunas and Belen.

    Additional and rapid thunderstorm development is expected throughout the middle Rio Grande Valley through 2:30 pm.

    Rainfall rates of up to one and a half inches per hour can be expected.

  191. janet July 25, 2013 at 11:55 am #

    S4B said: In other words – people who should be banned.

    This site is being ruined by crybabies who pop in, count posts made by others, contribute nothing, then cry to daddyJHK waaaah, they took my blog away, make them give it back, waaaaah.

    The topic this week is Detroit.

    JHK is misusing the word “requiem.” A requiem is a Mass for the repose of the souls of the dead. DETROIT IS NOT DEAD. JHK’s use of the word “requiem” is offensive. Detroit is very much alive.

    Only a very small percentage of Detroit’s citizens are even violent. In fact there’s been a 7 percent reduction in homicide from a year ago today, violent crime is down 4 percent.

  192. janet July 25, 2013 at 12:16 pm #

    The other false assumption being made by CFN is that Detroit is a “canary” and that soon there will be many more Detroits in the USA.

    People like Ron Paul say this, and inevitably they say things like the world is going to lose faith in the dollar and the fault is printing too much money. None of which is reflected in current financial reality.

    On the US side, there were multiple positive data releases. The first was the weekly Initial Jobless Claims data, which came in at +334K, well below the +345K Bloomberg News survey expected. The next piece of data was the Philadelphia Fed survey: 19.8 July actual; 8.0 Bloomberg News survey expected. This marks the highest Philadelphia Fed reading since March 2011.

    Yet people like Ron Paul have been predicting collapse for decades because “fiat money” is supposed to be such a terrible thing. Ron Paul doesn’t even blush when he utters his lies about Detroit and the USA. No one should listen to him when he says Detroit is bankrupt and the USA is bankrupt. The data do not support his fantastic claims.

    Or maybe Ron Paul has his eye on some property in a Belle Isle Commonwealth gated community?

  193. janet July 25, 2013 at 12:28 pm #

    For those who don’t know: the Philadelphia survey showing increased dollar strength is significant because the survey gives investors a detailed look at how busy the manufacturing sector is, and can have a significant effect on the markets. Since manufacturing is a major sector of the U.S. economy, an increase in the Philadelphia Fed index indicates an uptrend in the economy.

    In other words, things are getting better, not worse. Not because I say so. The data say so.

  194. progress4what July 25, 2013 at 12:34 pm #

    “JHK is misusing the word “requiem.” A requiem is a Mass for the repose of the souls of the dead. DETROIT IS NOT DEAD. JHK’s use of the word “requiem” is offensive. Detroit is very much alive.”
    – janet..asoka..nicole..carol –

    Just to be clear; “asoka” and his many troll identities make it “their” mission to disagree with JAMES HOWARD KUNSTLER and destroy any usefulness that this discussion thread might have.

    They should be banned, for those reasons alone.

    =======================

    And – asia/anti-soak/anti-dod

    Fulton County is one of the main counties in the core of Atlanta.
    Garden is behind this building.
    http://www.sandyspringsrotary.org/images/NFultonGovtServiceCenter.jpg

  195. janet July 25, 2013 at 12:49 pm #

    “their” mission to disagree with JAMES HOWARD KUNSTLER … They should be banned, for those reasons alone.

    I don’t have a mission. JHK invited intelligent commentary in response to what he writes. I provide data, facts, and statistics provided within an intelligent context.

    Your insistence on lynching those who disagree is telling and true to your family history of slaveholders.

    You contribute nothing of substance to JHK’s endeavors and you degrade this blog with your insistent calls to lynch those who disagree with JHK.

  196. Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 12:52 pm #

    The other false assumption being made by CFN is that Detroit is a “canary” and that soon there will be many more Detroits in the USA.

    That’s right, janet. When it comes to Detroit, people need to just “shut up and reinvent.” It’s not too difficult to take sour lemons and add a little LOVE (sugar and water) to make Lemonade.

    http://www.lemonadedetroit.com/

    Everything we need, we already have, we just have to do it.

  197. janet July 25, 2013 at 1:05 pm #

    The Republican governor in Michigan hired a consultant who is a bankruptcy expert for $275,000. Where is anti dod’s outrage about that? There has been plenty of outrage expressed about high salaries on CFN, but this time… silence. Then the consultant comes up with … SURPRISE! … the idea of Detroit filing for bankruptcy. Who could have guessed that might be the “solution” … coming from a bankruptcy lawyer?

    What is happening in Detroit is a right-wing coup, just like in Rand Paul’s Kentucky. That’s what these Pauls really stand for: corporate welfare. Kentucky raided its public pension funds to finance $1.4 billion a year in tax subsidies, and then when the crisis hit, lawmakers there slashed pension benefits — not the corporate subsidies.

    Michigan officials talk about cutting the average $19,000-a-year pension benefit for municipal workers while reaffirming their pledge of $283 million in taxpayer money to a professional hockey stadium.

    Looting is going on. Theft is happening. The peoples’ will is being ignored. The vote of the people on the ballot referendum was ignored. And where is the Tea Party? Where are the Constitutionalists? Where is the Conservative outcry?

    • Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 1:10 pm #

      You’re forgetting the most important point, the bankruptcy manager is black. How do they explain that away? Janos will be arriving shortly to clear it up for us, no doubt.

      Anyway, many here will look at this photo montage and be repulsed and depressed by it. I see only beauty. There’s beauty in everything, you just have to let the light shine in and through.

      http://www.wired.com/rawfile/2013/01/detroit-dave-jordano/

  198. Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 1:17 pm #

    What is happening in Detroit is a right-wing coup, just like in Rand Paul’s Kentucky.

    Exactly, and Obama and The Dems are nowhere to be found. You emphatically asserted yesterday that Obama is now devoting himself to building the Middle Class. It’s a little late now when he’s almost half way through his second term, don’t you think? These pensioners are the Middle Class, and yet where’s their bail-out….you know, the one he gave Wall Street. Where was Obama for the Middle Class unionized government employees when the right-wing coup took place in Wisconsin? If Obama’s for the Middle Class, he sure has a funny way of showing it.

    http://progressive.org/shame_on_obama_abandoning_wis.html

    Shame on Barack Obama for forsaking progressive forces in Wisconsin in their hour of need.

    It was bad enough that Obama or Joe Biden never showed up during the historic protests in February and March of last year.

    But it is unforgivable that they’ve failed to show up during the last weeks of this crucial recall campaign.

    It’s not that they were too busy.

    On Friday, Obama was just a half hour away, giving a speech and then attending a fundraiser in Minneapolis.

    • progress4what July 25, 2013 at 1:41 pm #

      new page of comments just started
      does this reply go on the old page?

      And janet..asoka..nicole – –
      Have you ever been wrong about anything in your life??

  199. progress4what July 25, 2013 at 1:35 pm #

    “Your insistence on lynching those who disagree is telling and true to your family history of slaveholders.”
    – the troll trilogy plays the race card –

    All hail asoka…most fair and wise and all-knowing forever.

  200. beantownbill. July 25, 2013 at 1:42 pm #

    The primary weapon in the PR arsenal of TPTB – both government and corporate – is the use of statistics to manipulate the masses. Mathematics beautifully displays the power of logic in the human mind. Unfortunately, statistics is just a tool, and like all tools, the results of its application depends what it is used for.

    Never trust the numbers the government and big corporations use to drive public policy. TPTB twist charts, graphs, tables and figures to try to accomplish what they want.

    I never pay particular attention to unemployment figures from the BLS or ADP. I never pay attention to any documents or studies from the Federal Reserve. I categorically believe they are all lies.

    Given the predisposition of TPTB to do anything to further their goals, I only use daily life experiences to formulate my beliefs in what is really the American condition.

    Is the quality of life for the average person better now than 5 years ago? Better than 20 years ago? The answer is subjective and not as apparent as we’d like to believe.

    However, speaking for myself, as I see the price of oil, the cost of food, the prices of new automobiles, my diminished income, the non-existent interest rate of savings accounts, the rise in foreclosures, the falling values of real estate, the bailing out of too big to fail banks that were supposed to die, the displays of gratuitous violence, the cost of health insurance, the control of hospital policy by insurance companies, the bankruptcies of large cities, etc., etc.*,it would take an idiot to think things are getting better. Or someone who is being paid to state that.

    * Oh, yeah – and the non-stop wars, the use of drones and the loss of the Bill of Rights.

  201. Janos Skorenzy July 25, 2013 at 1:45 pm #

    Attention Nasta: There’s over a million gang members in America. Think many of them are White compared to the other groups? The number is way up since Obama’s election as are attacks on Whites.

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/07/confirmed-gang-membership-up-40-under-obama-violent-attacks-on-whites-up-18/

    It would be good for Whites to start organizing to protect themselves. We are going to need it. The Nastas of the world live in an inverted reality. They see everything as if it was a photographic negative. They get their tunnel reality programming from Oprah or in Nasta’s case, Mother Jones or Nation magazine.

    • Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 1:58 pm #

      The primary weapon in the PR arsenal of TPTB – both government and corporate – is the use of statistics to manipulate the masses. Mathematics beautifully displays the power of logic in the human mind. Unfortunately, statistics is just a tool, and like all tools, the results of its application depends what it is used for.

      Never trust the numbers the government and big corporations use to drive public policy. TPTB twist charts, graphs, tables and figures to try to accomplish what they want.

    • Nastarana July 25, 2013 at 2:53 pm #

      Nice try, Janos, but that ship sailed a long time ago. Now, all of a sudden you wake up and realize you might have to rely on some of us non-winners, not number 10s? And you think we all are supposed to be grateful for your notice?

      I, and I imagine a lot of other white females have been subjected to far more in the way of insults, contempt, humiliation, abuse, backstabbing intrigues, and deliberate troublemaking–referred to by such as you as ‘orneriness’– from regular guy white men than we ever experienced from any other group. Speaking of black folks in particular, my experience has always been that they leave me alone if I leave them alone.

      Now, when guys like Rhino start hiring gangs, that will be the time we need to look to our defenses, or camouflage strategies.

      • Janos Skorenzy July 25, 2013 at 6:09 pm #

        You’ve had more bad experiences with White Men because you’ve lived in White areas. Try and learn to think. You aren’t the center of the universe. Like most women, when asked to think, you just start spouting personal anecdotes.

        • Nastarana July 25, 2013 at 7:04 pm #

          How would you know where I lived?

          Anyone who wants to consider me an ally has to be willing to refrain from insulting me.

      • Janos Skorenzy July 25, 2013 at 6:12 pm #

        Turning White Women against White Men has been the greatest victory of the Enemy, the Bernays, Lippmanns, Oppenheimers, etc. They don’t need us anymore since they have the State. And they get their views from authority figures on TV.

  202. progress4what July 25, 2013 at 1:47 pm #

    Seriously, “janet,” you don’t believe ANY of your beliefs have ever been wrong.

    Therefore, you are incapable of growth.
    You believe every word you type only proves your immortal correctness.

    Ban this waster of your blog space, JHK.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 25, 2013 at 1:55 pm #

      Why so bitter today? If the Asoka entity is DoD, it cannot be thwarted since it is co-extensive with reality just like Yog Sothoth.
      In other words, it’s far out of JHK’s hands. The software available to such entities allows them to have a number of personas. And I would imagine IP Addresses could be had as needed.

  203. Janos Skorenzy July 25, 2013 at 1:51 pm #

    Sometimes I can hear (not see) the Lord walking thru the Garden in the cool of the Evening.

    The bitter flavor helps cool the body and thus I recommend beer in small amounts in very hot weather. Purely for medicinal reasons. Too much would defeat the purpose since alcohol drys the body out.

  204. janet July 25, 2013 at 2:00 pm #

    Albert Camus wrote a book, The Myth of Sisyphus, in which he says the fundamental philosophical question is: should I commit suicide? The reason that question is fundamental is because the answer determines whether or not you will ask any other questions.

    Beantown, if you really believe we are in an entropy-driven, downwardly spiraling, Kali yuga, kind of universe, then why not end it now? Does it make any sense to continue living … given that you believe things are getting worse not better?

    Are things really getting worse? By what standard would that be true? Obviously, what is lacking is an established frame of reference for “better and worse.” If you just broaden your scope a bit, say look at the last few centuries instead of the last few decades, you will find that things are indeed getting better.

    You didn’t mention morals, but many bring that up as proof that things are getting worse: the kids come from broken homes and have no moral upbringing. That’s the story line. Reality does not support that fiction.

    The teen pregnancy rate has dropped precipitously. So kids don’t seem to be out of control sexually. According to the Centers for Disease Control, the rate today is lower than it was in the 1940s!

    But, aren’t young people more sexually active today? Perhaps not. The percentage of teenage girls who have had sexual intercourse has declined from 51 percent to 42 percent since 1988.

    Or maybe it is due to increased abortions. Actually, the abortion rate among teens has been falling dramatically in recent years. It is down 42 percent from 1990 and is at its lowest rate since 1972.

    People make assumptions, often driven by what they see exaggerated in the media, that are not accurate. You, beantown, fall into that category. You refuse to believe objectively gathered data and prefer to form your opinions based upon your limited personal experience and distorted media viewing. Hence your prejudices.

    • beantownbill. July 25, 2013 at 3:59 pm #

      Since we have fundamental differences over the subject matter, let’s agree to disagree and move on. Before I do, please read over what I said more carefully. I never said we are doomed and there will a collapse, etc. I’m not one of the doomers. I still have hopes that we are just going through a civilizational evolutionary period, which causes a lot of stress and insecurity. However, things have been getting worse for a long time. I thought I removed the use of statistics from the argument in my last post. If not, then the argument revolves around whether or not the statistics are accurate.

      Suggesting I commit suicide if I don’t think things are getting better is way over the top. Really. You gotta argue better than that.

  205. Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 2:08 pm #

    Sometimes I can hear (not see) the Lord walking thru the Garden in the cool of the Evening.

    Sorry, that’s not “the Lord.” It’s called a fart. You’re a trip, or you’re trippin if you think your flatulence is evidence of a deity. The irony is, it’s the beer that’s causing the flatulence and the audio delusions.

  206. Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 2:18 pm #

    Speaking of Camus, Bush is a fan of his. Remember back in 2006 when he read L’Etranger? Who could forget? Bush was, and is, misunderstood by those who are prejudiced. This article presents a convincing argument that Bush is really just “one of us.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/aug/17/usa.bookscomment

    Every summer, George W Bush’s holiday reading is announced. This year Bush mockers have been given pause. The president has apparently just finished Albert Camus’ famous tale of alienation, L’Etranger. (In translation, c’est vrai.) Not quite what we might have expected. One hungers to know what he made of the story of Meursault, a Frenchman living in Algeria, who shoots an Arab on the beach one day. The Arab has been in a fight with Meursault’s friend Raymond, a local pimp, but our emotionless narrator tells us he pulled the trigger because of the irritating heat of the day, rather than for vengeance. He then fires four more times into his victim’s body.

    There seems a high voltage in the president’s choice of a novel whose white protagonist murders an Arab. But Bush’s reading of The Outsider was apparently notable for the intellectual debate it sparked with his aides. “He found it an interesting book and a quick read,” said White House spokesman Tony Snow. “I don’t want to go too deep into it, but we discussed the origins of existentialism.”

    Without going too deep into it, “existentialist” is probably not the right word. “Absurdist” seems closer to the mark. The universe is shown to be utterly indifferent, human institutions are founded on deception and hypocrisy and the nearest thing to a moral purpose the individual can find is mere truthfulness about this bleak state of affairs. It is not quite the American Way.

    Surely liberals cannot wait to ask the president whether he believed it to be an indictment of capital punishment, as generations of A-level students have been taught. At his trial, Meursault is asked to say that he is sorry for what he has done and refuses, condemning himself by declining to tell a required lie. A death sentence is ensured by his reported behaviour at his mother’s funeral. A witness testifies that he failed to exhibit any grief, proof, says the prosecutor, of his irredeemably callous nature. Camus summed up the novel’s lesson in a single sentence. “In our society, any man who doesn’t cry at his mother’s funeral is liable to be condemned to death.”

    And the president’s supporters on the Christian Right will surely be worried to hear of him dabbling in one of the most anti-religious of novels. After he is sentenced, Meursault is visited in his cell by a priest whose consolation he furiously rejects. Camus makes sure we admire his narrator’s indignation at the illusions the chaplain peddles.

    All this is disturbing proof that George W is not the weird being that we had all liked to suppose. A few months ago, Camus’ novel came top in a poll conducted for G2 among male Guardian-reading types, who were asked what book had most influenced them. The Outsider beat off JD Salinger’s The Catcher in the Rye and Kurt Vonnegut’s Slaughterhouse Five to claim the distinction of the book most likely to have changed their lives. Oh dear. Perhaps, chaps, George is one of us.

  207. janet July 25, 2013 at 2:25 pm #

    If the Asoka entity is DoD, it cannot be thwarted since it is co-extensive with reality

    You guys are hilarious. Asoka no longer posts here. DoD would not waste money to pay people to post here, even if DoD was not undergoing furloughs. Nobody is being paid to post here.

    But all of you who are complaining about “it” or the “entity” or “Asoka” are defeating the purpose of the blog. JHK posts and has invited critical feedback. Y’all are mostly off-topic. The topic this week is Detroit.

    Perhaps we should be a bit suspicious about the right-wing takeover of Detroit. Right-wing dogma uses selective storytelling to use a tragic event as a means to radical ends. In this case, the ends are — big shocker! — three of the conservative movement’s larger long-term economic priorities:

    1) preservation of job-killing trade policies

    2) immunity for corporations and

    3) justification for budget policies that continue to profligately subsidize the rich.

    That is what Detroit is about: squash the unions, steal from public pensions, and give out more corporate welfare.

    The Republicans have learned how to plunder well from the Vikings. (and I don’t mean Minnesota)

    • Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 2:29 pm #

      Yes, and The Dems stand by fecklessly. In fact, they’re even lending a hand in some instances despite platitudes to the contrary.

    • Nastarana July 25, 2013 at 3:05 pm #

      Hey, a lot of us do not live in Detroit, nor do we consider ourselves instant experts on any possible topic which might come up. As for you, OTOH, I am sure a spot on MSNBC will be opening up real soon now.

      What I see on a map of the states which have Koch installed governors, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, is the proximity of 20
      % of the world’s most valuable resource, the grand prize. I understand Westinghouse Corp. has already made a bid for Lake Michigan water.

      What I hear is that what Detroit, and Benton Harbor and other Michigan cities are about is creeping fascism.

    • Karah July 25, 2013 at 3:32 pm #

      Not only does everyone get wildly off topic, you seem to have a weekly posting quota that must include not only your reactions to JHK but everyone else who posts a comment. I’ve enjoyed a few of the youtube embeds except for the fact that they all start playing at once.

      The problems presented by JHK have reached beyond party politics and unions. When you’ve got everyone fleeing one of the largest and most successful cities in the union because they can’t provide basic city services…what happens to a democrat when the water line breaks is the same thing that happens to a republican or an independent. Mayors should limit the populations of cities to between 200,000 – 300,000 people. They can have another 200,000 30 minutes AWAY in every direction connected by looped highways and call it a mega-metroplex if that makes them feel better about themselves.

      Downtown NYC, like the west coast, is becoming increasingly out of touch with reality. My impression of it is gentrification to the max. If for any reason tourism is threatened for any significant length of time, it will turn into another Egypt. We see how “democracy” is not working over there and it is failing here as well but we’re not surrounded by most city states aren’t blocked in by desert and mad terrorists.

  208. janet July 25, 2013 at 2:46 pm #

    This whole Detroit thing is engineered. A deceptive move by a greedy governor. 1.2 million personal and business bankruptcies filed last year. They are commonplace. Municipal bankruptcies are rare. There have been 36 municipal bankruptcies since 2010, including Detroit’s. Before that, there were very few. Even New York City’s, with its financial problems in 1975, never led to bankruptcy … even after President Ford said he’d block any attempt to bail out the city. Look behind the curtain, people.

  209. janet July 25, 2013 at 3:13 pm #

    Republicans are engaging in bait and switch on the Detroit bankruptcy.

    Detroit is the biggest population center in the state hit the hardest by the right’s corporate-written trade agenda. I blame Clinton for NAFTA. I blame Clinton for the China PNTR deal. I blame Bush and Obama for continuing Clinton’s work instead of repealing it.

    Only one representative had the guts to stand up and fight back … (no it was not Ron Paul) … Vermont’s Representative Sanders introduced legislation to repeal the Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China. Rep. Sanders said to the House, “anyone who takes an objective look at our trade policy with China must conclude that is an absolute failure and needs to be fundamentally overhauled.” American jobs continue to be lost to our overseas competitors.

    According to the Economic Policy Institute, Michigan lost more jobs than any other state from NAFTA and lost even more jobs thanks to the China PNTR deal. And that’s just two of many such trade pacts. Add to this the city’s disproportionate reliance on American auto companies which made a series of horrific business decisions, and Detroit is a microcosmic cautionary tale about what happens when large corporations are allowed to write macro economic policy and dictate the economic future of an entire city.

    The workers in unions were not negotiating trade pacts like NAFTA and PNTR to benefit corporations. The Detroit workers on the factory line were not making corporate auto company policies. The corporations were making those decisions, not the workers.

    But now, the corporations are going after the Detroit workers’ pensions. The plunder of the American people, which started with Bush in 2008, continues. And crickets from CFN, except to raise their voices in complaint of “the entity” … a real clusterfuck.

    • Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 3:19 pm #

      The plunder of the American people, which started with Bush in 2008, continues.

      Well said, everything, but on this statement, I’d say the plundering started well before Bush in 2008, but yes, the so-called “recession” was yet another vehicle to plunder even more, and it still continues to this day, virtually unabated.

  210. Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 3:23 pm #

    I understand Westinghouse Corp. has already made a bid for Lake Michigan water.

    I have no doubt a play will be made for the Great Lakes water in the coming decades, but a google search turns up nothing on Westinghouse making a bid for Lake Michigan water. Can you provide a link?

    • Nastarana July 25, 2013 at 7:11 pm #

      Sorry, I heard it on an online radio program in connection with the imposition of an emergency manager in Benton Harbor and it was mentioned in passing. As of right now, I suppose it must be considered a rumor only. I rather suspect the play is in the works now, not in coming decades but I can’t prove it.

  211. janet July 25, 2013 at 3:26 pm #

    Nastarana said: “nor do we consider ourselves instant experts on any possible topic which might come up”

    That is your right. You also have the right to become an expert on any possible topic. It is your choice.

    As my troop leader in the Girl Scouts used to say: You get out of life what you put into it.

    • Nastarana July 25, 2013 at 7:30 pm #

      I cannot agree with that point of view at all.

      I think that you pick a few areas of interest, such as engage your passions, and a few crafts or activities, and become as expert and skilled as possible within one lifetime.

      Quick and dirty way to separate useful folks from parasites; in childhood did they do scouts or 4-H? If they were scouts, keep your distance. If they were 4-H, which teaches responsibility and integrity, they likely can be trusted.

  212. Janos Skorenzy July 25, 2013 at 3:26 pm #

    Great debate on Syria. Good vs Evil. These two men hate each other. Listen for the words “kinetic strike” – a satellite weapon America is thinking of using on them to help our cannibal allies who decapitate Christians. Basically, rods are released from outer space. When they hit they have enormous kinetic force. Weapons of mass destruction yes, but no one will be able to say we used chemical, biological, or nuclear.

    http://vault-co.blogspot.com/2013/07/rods-from-god-planned-for-syria.html

    • Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 3:42 pm #

      Yes, and at the center of this issue is our good friend, John Kerry. My, what a few decades and a multi-million dollar net worth will do to change your views on wars, arming oppositions and air strikes. What a sickening hypocrite.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9907566/John-Kerry-US-will-empower-Syria-opposition.html

      US Secretary of State John Kerry said in Riyadh Monday that Washington will work to “empower” Syria’s opposition, while warning arch-foe Iran that time for talk on Tehran’s nuclear ambitions could run out.

      In his speech before Congress in 1971 he talked of “America” turning away from a mistake….turning away from war, and now, more than forty years later, when he gets to call the shots, he talks of “America” turning back to war. That wheel in the sky keeps on turning, doesn’t it?

  213. progress4what July 25, 2013 at 3:33 pm #

    “Why so bitter today? If the Asoka entity is DoD, it cannot be thwarted….” – jaego?, vlad, janos –

    I’m not bitter, vlad. But there’s zero doubt that janet and nicole are both the work of the original asoka… (david from seattle?)

    And the excessively high posting rate, along with the excessively pious opinion on absolutely everything – confirms this.

    JHK has this clunky new software for a reason. Now is the time to ban (or lynch, as our racist overposter prefers) the entity once for all.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 25, 2013 at 6:26 pm #

      Of course it’s Asoka. But just as Yog Sothoth is co-existent and extensive with time and space, the Entity is co-existent with the cyber universe, at least at this level. He’s a bug that’s operates as a feature.

      Circling around the City, I discovered a weakness in the defenses and was able to get thru. I doubt if Asoka even needed to do this.

  214. janet July 25, 2013 at 3:36 pm #

    Well said, everything, but on this statement, I’d say the plundering started well before Bush in 2008

    Yes, the plunder has been going on throughout United States history. Government bailouts have a long history. In 1791, under Treasury Secretary Alexander Hamilton, the federal government bailed out Massachusetts and South Carolina for debts owed from the Revolutionary War.

    George W. Bush’s $700 Billion (supported by McCain and Obama) was a sizable redistribution of wealth to the corporations and banks.

    • Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 3:55 pm #

      Correct, Hamilton and The Federalists greatly expanded the Power of the Executive and the overall power and influence of the Federal Government. Jefferson tried, but lost this battle. Concentrated and centralized power makes for tyranny. Here we are.

  215. janet July 25, 2013 at 3:43 pm #

    excessively pious opinion on absolutely everything

    So now you are the PC police? Don’t like my tone, massah? I am not just offering opinions. I am backing them up with facts.

    And I am trying very hard to stay on topic: DETROIT. Even though you consistently try to derail and impede the conversation. Your impediment, accompanied by your practical residence here … why you could say that makes you a resident impediment.

    We are just having fun here. Sharing ideas. Responding to JHK’s writing on DETROIT … got that? … it’s about DETROIT. Got anything to say about DETROIT.

    You come along and call for lynchings of people you don’t agree with, or whose tone you don’t like, or who you think post too much, and contribute nothing to the discussion of DETROIT.

  216. Q. Shtik July 25, 2013 at 3:45 pm #

    The local group of anti-tar-sands activists staged a protest against the Enbridge pipeline, which crosses the state north of Detroit, the day before yesterday. – Neon Vincent

    And where does the pipeline cross the state today? South of Detroit, perhaps?

  217. Q. Shtik July 25, 2013 at 3:54 pm #

    As my troop leader in the Girl Scouts used to say: You get out of life what you put into it. – janet

    Were you in the Boy Scouts when you were Asoka?

  218. janet July 25, 2013 at 3:56 pm #

    [Kerry] talks of “America” turning back to war.

    America has never stopped being at war, so it cannot “turn back to war.” The USA is the most bellicose nation on earth and has done more damage to the planet than any other planet. Patriotic fools, like our Georgian Southern Avenger militia man, seem proud to have overpopulated America with his clan of militarists.

    I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today — my own government. For the sake of those boys, for the sake of this government, for the sake of the hundreds of thousands trembling under our violence, I cannot be silent. –Martin Luther King, Jr.

    • Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 3:59 pm #

      That’s the one that got him killed, don’t you think? The statement in bold?

    • Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 4:01 pm #

      The USA is the most bellicose nation on earth and has done more damage to the planet than any other planet.

      I think you meant “nation” here.

      • Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 4:01 pm #

        Scratch that, I see you corrected it below. My, you’re fast!!

  219. janet July 25, 2013 at 3:57 pm #

    ^The USA is the most bellicose nation on earth and has done more damage to the planet than any other country on earth.

  220. janet July 25, 2013 at 3:59 pm #

    Were you in the Boy Scouts when you were Asoka?

    Who is this Asoka everybody keeps talking about?

    • Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 4:04 pm #

      That’s what I want to know. Sounds like a Cool Customer, though….someone I’d like to have a Cosmopolitan with.

  221. Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 4:06 pm #

    America has never stopped being at war, so it cannot “turn back to war.”

    True, and as Secretary of State, this former anti-war activist now gets to steer the warship. Full Steam Ahead!

  222. janet July 25, 2013 at 4:07 pm #

    Scratch that, I see you corrected it below. My, you’re fast!!

    Remember, it’s not just me.

    It’s me and my band of brothers at DoD. Our platoon works round the clock to post messages to CFN and that is how we keep our country safe. NOT.

    LOL!

    🙂

    • Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 4:12 pm #

      When we correspond like this, I feel like I’m talking to myself. Isn’t that weird?

  223. Q. Shtik July 25, 2013 at 4:12 pm #

    It’s a little late now when he’s almost half way through his second term, don’t you think? – “Carol”

    You flunked math, right? Please show calculation of 1/2. I get 1/8.

    • Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 4:16 pm #

      No, you flunked math. 1/2 of 0 is 0 and 1/8 of 0 is 0. In otherwords, the fraction is irrelevant, but in your twisted universe it somehow means something. Clean the skid marks out of your filthy underwear before to speak to me, beeyotch.

  224. janet July 25, 2013 at 4:21 pm #

    this former anti-war activist now gets to steer the warship. Full Steam Ahead!

    There won’t be any money for a bailout of Detroit. But you watch. We will spend in one day what Detroit needs to pay it debt, especially if we mix it up with Iran. And the Georgian Southern Avenger militia men and their militarist families will be all patriotic and ready to go to war. Idiot red necks. There is never a shortage of cannon fodder idiots.

    • Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 4:42 pm #

      That’s the truth. These idiots cannot see what rubes they’ve always been. This says it all, imo. Describes the situation perfectly.

      http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2007_09_16_archive.html

      The Cavalier Legacy: Hegemonic Liberty

      Fischer quotes Dr. Samuel Johnson, pondering the Cavalier view of freedom. “How is it,” Dr. Johnson asked, “that we hear the loudest yelps for liberty among the drivers of negroes?” And, frankly, we’re still wondering: How did the descendants of these Royalist plantation owners, who among all the English settlers held on most stubbornly to their noble British roots, end up supplying so many of the revolutionaries that ultimately led America to independence?

      Fischer has an answer. He argues that the Cavalier cry against tyranny expressed by Jefferson, Washington, and other Virginians wasn’t the least bit out of character. In fact, it came straight out of their essential conviction that free white men of property are the morally proper holders of all the rights and liberties that matter:

      Virginian ideas of hegemonic liberty conceived of freedom mainly as the power to rule, and not to be overruled by others. Its opposite was “slavery,” a degradation into which true-born Britons descended when they lost their power to rule….It never occurred to most Virginia gentlemen that liberty belonged to everyone. It was thought to be the special birthright of free-born Englishmen — a property which set this “happy breed” apart from other mortals, and gave them a right to rule less fortunate people in the world….

      One’s status in Virginia was defined by the liberties one possessed. Men of high estate were thought to have more liberties than others of lesser rank. Servants possessed few liberties; and slaves [and women] had none at all. This libertarian idea had nothing to do with equality. Many years later, John Randolph of Roanoke summarized his ancestral creed in a sentence: “I am an aristocrat,” he declared. “I love liberty; I hate equality.”

      In Virginia, this idea of hegemonic liberty was thought to be entirely consistent with race slavery….The growth of race slavery in turn deepened the cultural significance of hegemonic liberty, for an Englishman’s rights became his rank, and set him apart from other less fortunate than himself. The world thus became a hierarchy in which people were ranked according to many degrees of unfreedom, and they received their rank by the operation of fortune, which played so large a role in the thinking of Virginians. At the same time, hegemony over others allowed them to enlarge the sphere of their own personal liberty, and to create the conditions within which their own special sort of libertarian consciousness flourished.

      Edmund Burke made similar observations when describing this new Southern breed in Parliament:

      A circumstance attending these colonies…makes the spirit of liberty still more high and haughty than in those to the northward. It is that, in Virginia and the Carolinas, they have a vast multitude of slaves. Where this is the case in any part of the world, those who are free are by far the most proud and jealous of their freedom…

      I do not mean, Sir, to commend the superior morality of this sentiment, which has at least as much pride as virtue in it; but I cannot alter the nature of man. The fact is so; and these people of the southern colonies are much more strongly, and with a higher and more stubborn spirit, attached to liberty than those to the northward…In such a people, the haughtiness of domination combines with the spirit of freedom, fortifies it, and renders it invincible.”

      Since Albion’s Seed was written 18 years ago, a lot of writers have drawn on it to explain events in modern America (a tradition I plan to continue, in due time). It’s notable that the overwhelming majority of them seized on Fischer’s dissection of the Scots-Irish Borderers, pointing out that the rednecks, white trash, holy rollers, crackers, and other assorted lower-class yahoos that supported Bush have been with us from the beginning — and been nothing but trouble from then to now.

      In the rush to blame the Borderers, though, this section on the Cavaliers has been almost entirely ignored. Yet I found it to be at least as powerful in its explanatory power. Because, as Dr. Robert Altemeyer’s work makes clear, authoritarianism is always a two-part problem. While the Borderers may supply more than their fair share of right-wing authoritarian followers, they’d go nowhere without a high-social-dominance authoritarian leadership to guide them. And in Fischer’s description of the Cavaliers, we see the early American prototype of that high-SDO authoritarianism.

      It’s all there: the love of luxury, the crony capitalism, the unabashed right to exploit others for what you can take, the love of hierarchy for its own sake, the tacit understanding that those who have more stuff also have more rights. Altemeyer’s description of the high-SDO leader — amoral, manipulative, intimidating, hedonistic, pitiless, exploitative, prejudiced, nationalistic, hostile to equality, religious only for outward appearances, and almost always politically conservative — fits Fischer’s portrait of the Cavalier gentleman like a fine Spanish kid glove on the hilt of a Sheffield dress sword.

      And these people are still very much with us. It’s not a coincidence that the Religious Right’s two most influential leaders, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, built their headquarters in Virginia; and that Washington’s Republican elite still clusters in the old Cavalier city of Arlington. We hear Cavalier voices whenever someone tells us that wealth gaps are no big deal; that women and racial minorities are naturally inferior; that nobody besides the rich have a right to education or health care or anything else; that torture and war are necessary to maintain the American order; that the nation’s corporate oligarchy will solve all of our problems if we simply give them their unfettered “freedom” to exploit every possible opportunity; and that we are upsetting the God-given moral order of the universe if we even think about trying to restrain them.

      Among Cavaliers and corporatists, there is no morality beyond might makes right. There is no law — and no honor — beyond their own desire to expand their own sphere of power. There is no equality, no justice, and no universal freedom as we understand it. Theirs is the ancient plantation mentality we Americans have spent over 220 hard, bloody years trying to put behind us. It’s an outdated social system that has no place in a modern technological society — yet, in almost every detail, it’s the very world our new corporate royalists want to drag us back to.

      In the back of their minds, they’re just Virginia gentlemen, taking the liberties such gentlemen have always rightfully enjoyed at the expense of others. It’s true that we owe a handful of Cavalier gentlemen a tremendous debt for so clearly articulating the principles of American liberty during the Revolution. But we should also remember that when these first men asserted their God-given right to life, liberty, and happiness, they had no intention of sharing those blessings with anyone else.

  225. Q. Shtik July 25, 2013 at 4:31 pm #

    what Detroit needs to pay it debt,

    “janet” adopts Ebonics now and then just like “her” alter ego, Asoka.

  226. janet July 25, 2013 at 4:34 pm #

    “through his second term”

    Could Obama, as chief executive and commander of the armed forces, declare a national emergency, cancel the elections, and stay on for a few years more after his second term? That would give him time to solve the situation in Detroit (and other cities on the verge of bankruptcy besides Detroit).

    • Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 4:49 pm #

      Eight years is plenty of time if he is serious about supporting the middle class. Well into his second term is a bit late. Address the issue about the Detroit Pensioners and Wisconsin, rather than a lame comeback like this. All these pensioners are middle class. If he supports the middle class, wants to build the middle class up again, this is where he should start….preventing people from slipping out of it. Don’t fall off the high road. You’ve been doing a good job keeping on it thus far, but you’re perilously close to careening off onto the shoulder.

  227. janet July 25, 2013 at 4:36 pm #

    Or Janet just make a typo ’cause she type real fast. LOL!

  228. Q. Shtik July 25, 2013 at 4:41 pm #

    There won’t be any money for a bailout of Detroit.

    Are you suggesting the Federal Govt bail out Detroit? If yes, wouldn’t it be fair that they pay off the debts of ALL other cities too?

  229. janet July 25, 2013 at 4:45 pm #

    Are you suggesting the Federal Govt bail out Detroit? If yes, wouldn’t it be fair that they pay off the debts of ALL other cities too?

    Hell, yes!

    The total comes to $1.2 trillion, which is less than we have wasted in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    http://costofwar.com

    The next $1.2 trillion we spend on Syria and Iran will make profits for the arms merchants, when it could bail out every single city in the USA. Constitution says to provide for the general welfare. Redistribution is the way to do it.

    BTW, tell your son to get the hell out of the military and get a real job, something that contributes to the economy instead of stealing from honest taxpayers.

  230. janet July 25, 2013 at 5:14 pm #

    in Virginia and the Carolinas, they have a vast multitude of slaves. Where this is the case in any part of the world, those who are free are by far the most proud and jealous of their freedom…

    And haughty. And entitled. And corrupt, as the current governor Bob McDonnell of Virginia is demonstrating. McDonnell is under criminal investigation for undisclosed “gifts” from Star Scientific executive Jonnie Williams.

    Those gifts are said to total more than $145,000, including:

    $6,500 Rolex watch for McDonnell

    $15,000 Oscar de la Renta gown for his wife, Maureen McDonnell

    $15,000 in catering for McDonnell’s daughter’s wedding

    $70,000 to a corporation owned by McDonnell and his sister

    $50,000 in a check to McDonnell’s wife.

    None of these gifts were reported in the McDonnell’s annual financial filings. Brazen.

  231. Elmendorf July 25, 2013 at 5:24 pm #

    Come on, JHK. Today’s posts are 80% Janet or Carol. One of them called QShtik a “beeyotch”. Good Lord, man, you complain about this blog as an embarrassment and you do NOTHING about it.

    I’ll say again what I said late last night: Have your tech guys change the blog so you post a MAXIMUM of five posts in a day. Even 3 or 4 isn’t a bad idea. Get rid of the possibility of stolen identities while you’re at it.

    As things stand, there is no blog. It’s just a venue for the Power Femme mentality to run roughshod. You out there, James? YOU’RE BLOG HAS ALREADY GONE DOWN IN FLAMES.

    E.

    • beantownbill. July 25, 2013 at 5:25 pm #

      I know. It’s annoying, isn’t it?

      • BackRowHeckler July 25, 2013 at 6:00 pm #

        I’d scroll thru the various manifestations of Asoka, but then I’d have to scroll thru the entire Comments Section, with just a few exceptions. But what the hell. This is an open forum; let him say what he wants …

        Hey BTBill, how about Pedroia’s $110 million contract with the Red Sox? Not a day goes by lately when I don’t hear about another athlete getting 100 mil. Today its the QB for the Falcons: $130 million. Even teams in Detroit are handing out huge money. Their QB just got $56 million. And a few years ago the Tigers gave Victor Martinez $150 million. This is more than even the highest paid CEOs yet I never hear the OWSER types complain about it. JHK states there isn’t much real capital left floating around but pro sports teams don’t seem to be having any problems.

        BRH

  232. janet July 25, 2013 at 5:41 pm #

    As things stand, there is no blog. — E. and BTB

    Wrong, Eleuthero and Beantown.

    What CFN is doing this week is to spark a discussion about revising current trade deals, regulations, public investment and industrial policy in general. That is, JHK’s post this week sparks precisely the discussion that the conservative movement and the corporations that fund politicians don’t want America to have.

    The Detroit story is not primarily about taxes and public pensions, but that is all the right wants to discuss. That is, of course, by design. It is as if you, Eleuthero, and you, Beantown, do not want to discuss the issue JHK has raised. The less Detroit prompts serious questions about trade policies and the auto industry, the less Detroit can be used as a rationale for changing those conservative, corporate-enriching policies and that industry. Likewise, the more taxes and retirement benefits can be blamed for Detroit’s downfall, the more Detroit’s tragedy can be used as a clarion call by the right to slash both. All your off-topic posts are complicit with the right-wing agenda to stop discussion.

    • Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 6:15 pm #

      Perfectly said. If it wasn’t for you and me, there wouldn’t be any intelligent discussion here. These bozos have nothing to offer. NOTHING! Except incessant whining.

  233. janet July 25, 2013 at 5:59 pm #

    Today’s posts are 80% Janet or Carol.

    Eighty percent of success is showing up. — Woody Allen

    And 80% of Janet’s and Carol’s posts are on-topic. The topic is Detroit. Got anything to say about what JHK posted this week? Your off-topic posts are annoying.

  234. Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 6:07 pm #

    YOU’RE BLOG HAS ALREADY GONE DOWN IN FLAMES.

    And this character’s supposed to be a PhD? This is the reason for the malaise and decline. PhD’s can’t even construct grammatically correct sentences. Good grief!!

  235. Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 6:09 pm #

    One of them called QShtik a “beeyotch”.

    You mean he’s not?

  236. Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 6:12 pm #

    Not a day goes by lately when I don’t hear about another athlete getting 100 mil.

    There’s a simple way to clear that up right quick. Turn the freakin tube off and quit watching it and reading about it. When everyone does en masse, ad revenue dries up, and poof goes the big salaries. I bet you can’t do it, though, because you’re a big, fuckin hypocrite who only knows how to whine, whine, whine.

  237. janet July 25, 2013 at 6:25 pm #

    And this character’s supposed to be a PhD?

    PhD means piled higher and deeper, which fits E.

    I stopped believing his “teacher of the year” “e-harmony” persona long ago. I feel sorry for him. By his own admission all he has to do is move to Mountainside and he would have FUN! FUN! FUN! … unless the Euro collapses, which years ago he also predicted (IT’S CRUNCH TIME!). He is simply a loser, a misanthrope, who can’t deal with data, and can’t find a woman to love him and therefore has an attitude toward us as representatives of women, or as he says: “Power Femmes” …

    He got that right. The future belongs to us. We are women. Hear us roar. And watch us post as much as we want to post. As BRH says: this is an open forum. Nobody is stopping E. or BTB from making RELEVANT posts about DETROIT. Remember DETROIT?

    What they will not have anymore is male privilege. (yeah, I got that from my Feminism 101 class. And it’s politically correct.)

  238. Q. Shtik July 25, 2013 at 6:28 pm #

    And haughty. And entitled. And corrupt, as the current governor Bob McDonnell of Virginia is demonstrating.

    Well, what do you expect, he’s a politician.

  239. janet July 25, 2013 at 6:37 pm #

    And corrupt, as the current governor Bob McDonnell of Virginia is demonstrating.

    There are honest politicians and dishonest politicians. The honest ones are not under criminal investigation. Bob McDonnell is under criminal investigation.

    How many of the 50 governors are under criminal investigation for corruption, misconduct, or malfeasance? Not how many you would like to be, but how many actually are right now?

    BTW, you won’t have a working governor for long because he will soon begin running for president in 2016.

  240. Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 7:01 pm #

    BTW, you won’t have a working governor for long because he will soon begin running for president in 2016.

    Not if he follows in the footsteps of Tony Soprano.

    http://cdn.hoboken411.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Chris-Christie-needs-to-live-low-carb.jpg

    Jesus, what a lard-ass. Imagine the poor maid and/or janitor who has to clean the toilet after him? I’d like Camus to explain to me how that’s not a stone being pushed up hill.

  241. Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 7:05 pm #

    The future belongs to us. We are women. Hear us roar.

    You got dat right, girl!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVEflECtfBM

  242. progress4what July 25, 2013 at 7:22 pm #

    “I’d scroll thru the various manifestations of Asoka, but then I’d have to scroll thru the entire Comments Section, with just a few exceptions. But what the hell. This is an open forum; let him say what he wants …”
    – marlin, widespreadpanic, backrow heckler –

    I’d agree you, Marlin, but why does he have to say the same thing over and over and over, week after week after week.

    That’s pure trolling. That’s what JHK has a right to put a complete stop to.

    =====================

    And, E, you’re right too, BUT a five-post limit won’t help, here.
    It’s too easy to get new email addresses – and the Troll Trilogy has amply demonstrated their ability to manufacture fake ID’s.
    “nicole,” for example.

    Make it easy on yourself, JAMES HOWARD KUNSTLER.
    Ban the screennames associated with “nicole,” “janet,” and “carol.”

    And – when they show back up with new aliases – ban them again. Eventually – they will stop trolling or go away.

  243. Q. Shtik July 25, 2013 at 7:24 pm #

    Not a day goes by lately when I don’t hear about another athlete getting 100 mil. There’s a simple way to clear that up right quick. Turn the freakin tube off – “Carol”

    I’ve never been bothered by athletes making big money. I don’t recall any of Mike Tyson’s promoters saying they made a mistake paying Tyson multi-millions. Like true capitalists they estimated their costs and returns and to my knowledge were never disappointed.

    What DOES bother me though are all these athletes who go bankrupt after making hundreds of millions. It is most common among blacks. Sorry Asoka, it’s a “fack.” I watched a documentary about it a few nights ago…unbelievable.

    Exhibit A, again, is Mike Tyson. He made $400M in his career and went broke. His classic line in a post-fight interview as explanation for why he bit off a piece of Evander Holyfield’s ear was he had to retaliate for head butts because “This is my career. I have children to feed.” He made $100M for that fight.

  244. janet July 25, 2013 at 7:28 pm #

    Seems nobody wants to discuss Detroit. So how about this:

    LONDON, July 24 (Reuters) – A release of methane in the Arctic could speed the melting of sea ice and climate change with a cost to the global economy of up to $60 trillion over coming decades, according to a paper published in the journal Nature.

    $60 Trillion is not trivial. Makes Detroit seem like a small potato.

    (No apologies to idiot Dan Quayle)

    Makes arguing whether climate change exists moot as well. We lost ten years due to Republican intransigence and their hatred of Al Gore.

  245. janet July 25, 2013 at 7:33 pm #

    Seems nobody wants to discuss Detroit. So how about this?

    Edward Snowden, who revealed Prism’s existence to our elected representatives (we won’t be telling them everything, boys), was not a government employee and the only thing he violated was a confidentiality agreement with Booz, Allen, a private firm.

    So the congressmen and -women who denounced Snowden for having violated some imaginary oath should look in the mirror.

  246. Carol Newquist July 25, 2013 at 7:39 pm #

    He made $100M for that fight.

    Wow! And to think, Ali and Frazier got $2M a piece for their first match in The Garden in ’71. Best fight of all time. Ali was right, Frazier was an Uncle Tom, but Frazier beat him fair and square. Ali played around with him too much and when you dance too close to the flame, sometimes you get burned. Ali learned from it. He was the best boxer of all time, that can’t be disputed. He really knew how to stick it to you whiteys.