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Reply To Gary North

     Last week, extreme right-wing, hyper-patriot blogger and “Christian Reconstructionist” Gary North published a piece that bounced around the Web titled “James Howard Kunstler: Foul-Mouthed Apologist for the Good Old Boys.” Gary North was inflamed because I had put out a recent blog inveighing against the chain-store rape of local economies from sea to shining sea. North wrote:
Consider his [JHK’s] most recent screed. It begins with an attack on the most successful free market retailing operation on earth, Walmart. He uses Walmart as a representative company for all of the low-price, high-volume box stores. He hates them all.
In the United States, millions of customers return day after day to buy at stores like these. But Kunstler, who is an arrogant Leftie elitist, dismisses them as helpless rubes who need protection from price competitive retailers. And who will supply this protection? The Good Old Boys.
     My point, of course was that the chain store business model, and WalMart in particular, has destroyed local Main Street economies all over America, as well as the networks of social relations that went with these economies, in which local business owners employed local people and had to take responsibility for how they treated them. The damage to American civic life ought to be self-evident in the desolation of thousands of crumbling traditional downtowns, the extermination of a whole class of local business owners (and the local institutions they cared for), the funneling of business profits out of every local community to a few corporate bank accounts in distant places, as well as the desecration of the once-rural landscape outside our towns, now a uniformly profaned wilderness of parking lots and the tilt-up warehouses of chain-store commerce.
     My further point was that the WalMart model of business now faces its own demise as America contends with the realities of a what will prove to be a permanent energy and capital formation crisis, requiring us to downscale our activities and rebuild fine-grained local networks of economic interdependency. 
      Gary North’s intemperate response to these ideas illustrates everything that has become malignant and dishonorable in conservative politics lately. It also displays a brand of shocking stupidity that bodes darkly for America’s political future. There are many towns across America where WalMart is not just the only place to buy all goods, but the chief employer, too. How is it a good thing for anyone’s home town to be dominated by such a single despotic entity? How does it square with the rhetoric about “liberty” spouted by conservatives? How is it so different in kind from the tyrannical one-party rule of the old soviet system that is the pole star of conservative animus?
     WalMart is the largest corporate employer in the USA and most of its rank-and-file store workers barely get paid enough to live on (those with children fall statistically below the official poverty line). They have no control over their working lives, are cruelly deprived of full-time status in order to avoid giving them health insurance, have been subject to lock-ins during late-shifts, and are forced to attend off-hour browbeating  (“coaching”) sessions with no pay. WalMart trumpets “made-in-America” propaganda around its stores but buys the majority of its merchandise from foreign countries — over $20 billion in merchandise from China every year, and more from other overseas vendors.
     For Gary North, the supposed benefits of “bargain shopping” trump the fantastic damage that this mode of commerce wreaks on the nation. It was some bargain to sacrifice all the local business enterprises in this land, and the careers that went with them, and the incomes they produced, and the choices they represented so that underpaid chain store serfs could save five bucks on a toaster-oven.  Gary North writes:
Kunstler is merely one more hapless defender of local business oligopolies. He stands in front of the freight train of price competition, yelling: “Stop!” He will be run over, just as they all have been run over.
     Gary North is not being ironic when he characterizes the Americans whose independent businesses, lives, and towns were destroyed by WalMart as “good ole boys.” The owners of all those shuttered mom-and-pop stores along the vacant Main Streets of America were oligarchs?
      Gary North is exactly what I have in mind when I refer to the “corn-pone Nazis” who threaten the political future of this country. Either he’s a hostage to his own ideological rigor mortis or he is a genuine fool.  He’s certainly a fake patriot. He literally knows not what he actually stands for. There is no precedent for such malign totalitarian nonsense in American history. But it matches the spell that Germany fell under in 1933. And it can happen here, too.
____________________________________
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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

543 Responses to “Reply To Gary North” Subscribe

  1. lucky 13 March 3, 2013 at 7:36 pm #

    Oh, this Gary North? pleeze…
    http://www.amazon.com/Unholy-Spirits-Occultism-New-Humanism/dp/093046253X
    I must admit I bought his ‘Last train Out’.

  2. ComradeDystopia March 3, 2013 at 8:08 pm #

    Gary North?
    Never heard of him.
    Is he related to Ollie North?
    Walmart has many proponents, not all of them right wing fanatics. Round these parts Walmart did not facilitate the demise of Main Street; Main Street was already crumbling when Walmart showed up to fill the void. The whole subject soon will be moot anyway, as oil to run our cars is getting more expensive and harder to extract. That’s the conclusion of Dilip Hero in his book, ‘Blood of the Earth’, a dispassionate look at the world crude oil situation from an expert outside the United States. Very few shoppers will be able to walk to Walmart.
    ==ComradeDystopia

  3. Julian C. Lee March 3, 2013 at 8:33 pm #

    That’s awful, Jim. Really awful. How stupid indeed.
    If he really wants to reconstruct Christianity he should start by reading it, starting with “Consider the lilies of the field…” which contradicts both the striving/business/profit values and “world made by hand” values. We never got that memo even though it was sent. At least “world made by hand” is a lot closer to “lilies of the field,” thus more righteous.
    But yeah, he’s wrong to attack you Jim. Your view favors the people, naturalness, their uplift, their skill, and their independence — even their humanness. How can any intelligent plus decent ma side with freaking Wal-Mart? Would Jesus have sided with Wal-Mart? No.
    Christians are so lost in the face of their natural-living, wandering saddhu-guru Who trusted whatever came each day. No clue. They even fawn over Jews and Israel — and don’t ask them to reconstruct one little thing about theyselves. (Bet that guy does!)
    It’s sad. Much respect always.

  4. ront March 3, 2013 at 8:37 pm #

    Excellent points, James. You are contending with criticism from a person who obviously believes that financial success equates with worthiness of exaltation and rewards.
    This is a religion in the USA. I like the John Perkins puts it:
    from Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins p xii
    “Some would blame our current problems on an organized conspiracy. I wish it were so simple. Members of a conspiracy can be rooted out and brought to justice. This system, however, is fueled by something far more dangerous than conspiracy. It is driven not by a small band of men but by a concept that has become accepted as gospel: the idea that all economic growth benefits humankind and that the greater the growth, the more widespread the benefits. This belief also has a corollary: that those people who excel at stoking the fires of economic growth should be exalted and rewarded, while those born at the fringes are available for exploitation.
    “The concept is of course, erroneous. We know that in many countries economic growth benefits only a small potion of the population and may in fact result in increasingly desperate circumstances for the majority. This effect is reinforced by the corollary belief that the captains of industry who drive this system should enjoy a special status, a belief that is the root of many of our current problems and is perhaps also the reason why conspiracy theories abound. When men and women are rewarded for greed, greed becomes a corrupting motivator. When we equate the gluttonous consumption of the earth’s resources with a status approaching sainthood, when we teach our children to emulate people who live unbalanced lives, and when we define huge sections of the population as subservient to an elite minority, we ask for trouble. And we get it.”

  5. ozone March 3, 2013 at 8:43 pm #

    “Gary North’s intemperate response to these ideas illustrates everything that has become malignant and dishonorable in conservative politics lately. It also displays a brand of shocking stupidity that bodes darkly for America’s political future.” -JHK
    Yes, I read the “thoughtful article” too. Just the kind of knee-jerk reactionary blathering of bullshit to blow a huge smokescreen over the plain where a future reality is making a shambling and terrifying approach. (It’s not “price competition” that’s going to run everyone over; it’s the beast-that-must-not-be-named: Contraction.) This is the bleating denial of the short-term thinkers.
    Dmitri O. has tried to define the consequences of short-term vs. long-term decision-making in his latest. I think it’s helpful to your premise here. Those chasing short-term profit in lieu of any kind of sustainable model are about going to get their heads handed to them. Unfortunately, a lot of fools are going to join ’em in the fight to keep an endless supply of high-fructose corn syrup coming as part of our godly-ordained diet and way of life…
    It could get messy.
    Ps. Is this that same pesky, Iran-Contra treasonous bastard that won’t go away? I’ll check further.
    The original (much-beloved and oft-exalted) Nazis missed their thousand-year reign by how much again? Oh… wonder how the corn-pone variety will make out?
    One last glowing entry in the annals of the accelerating clusterfuck:
    http://www.newser.com/article/da4pto5g1/obama-to-nominate-walmart-foundation-head-sylvia-burwell-for-budget-chief.html
    Ohhhhhh boy! We love it when a plan comes together.

  6. ComradeDystopia March 3, 2013 at 8:53 pm #

    And don’t forget Joe Flacco, Baltimore Ravens QB, Superbowl Hero, was just rewarded with a $120 million contract! Have you driven thru Baltimore lately?
    –CD

  7. ozone March 3, 2013 at 8:57 pm #

    Lest anyone be of the mistaken impression that Julian C. Lee is of a “reasonable nature”, it would be well to read a bit of his occultist philosophy on the workings of the universe. He IS “the corn-pone Nazis” come to call.
    http://www.celibacy.info/Awaken_Young_Men_Renounce_Mortal_Sin_Julian_Lee.html
    Don’t forget to ask him about the brown-tinged people.
    Buh-bye now!
    -End of transmission

  8. ComradeDystopia March 3, 2013 at 9:05 pm #

    Hey Ozone that dude looks like the backup drummer in one of your old bands. Did alot of partying back in the day, maybe too much partying.
    –CD

  9. Janos Skorenzy March 3, 2013 at 9:33 pm #

    Shame on you SJ. Wherefrom comes this? Because I dared to argue with Be while owning a penis? Perhaps you should change your name from Jen to Judy.

  10. John D. Wheeler March 3, 2013 at 9:39 pm #

    I actually have followed Gary North for quite a while, and I think he actually has integrity. So, Jim, I would place him in the “ideological rigor mortis” category. He can’t see that circumstances are changing, that the cheap fuel that allowed global supply chains to flourish is running short. And while he has integrity, he still is emotionally attached to the consumer lifestyle, which clouds his intellectual acuity.
    I’m glad you addressed this, as none of the places that gave his point of view allowed for comments.

  11. Janos Skorenzy March 3, 2013 at 9:41 pm #

    How bout you? How long can you hold your semen? Isn’t it time to put away your wife and wander the fields of Haddam singing songs in praise of the Lord? Hint: The word Israel means spirit wrestler. Would you not feign become worthy of this name?

  12. lucky 13 March 3, 2013 at 9:41 pm #

    No, hows it there?

  13. lucky 13 March 3, 2013 at 9:44 pm #

    I read his ‘Last Train Out’. That book is about 30 [or more] years old.
    He was predicting c-o-l-la-p-s-e way back when.
    What happened to him and his predictions?

  14. John D. Wheeler March 3, 2013 at 10:21 pm #

    Cool, so you’ve been following him longer than I have. Without the benefit of having read the book, it seems to me that his predictions have just taken a lot longer to come true than he expected. That’s not too surprising. It’s a lot easier to predict that something is going to happen, like a devastating earthquake on the San Andreas fault, than it is to predict when.
    In fact, it seems to me that “World Peak Oil” was precisely what was missing from most of the doomers of 40 years ago. They didn’t understand that the PTB would keep the party going for as long as they could, which was until the cheap oil ran out.

  15. Macoy March 3, 2013 at 10:22 pm #

    Oh Boy, after learning about Gary North I have another entry for my scrap book collection of misanthropic, rent-a-quote, crypto-fascist f*ckwits. There are so many of these wankers out there now they can only be coming out of a Chinese factory. Perhaps I will be able to buy one at Walmart.

  16. routersurfer March 3, 2013 at 10:23 pm #

    North seems like one of the tired old apologists for unregulated capitalism. The ones that never really read Adam Smith just respond like Pavlov’s dog at the mention of Smith’s name. These folks live for “One Country Under Wal-Mart.” Change the name Wal-Mart to Jesus and the approval rating of Jesus or Wal-Mart would not change a bit. BTW, anyone else feel a new bubble building in “The Markets” besides myself? One week closer to the chickens coming home to roost. John Perkins & Chalmbers Johnson have been on my bookshelves for years! Nice to find another Perkins fan on this site. Hope JHK gets the next two books done before the last industrial wars start!

  17. ComradeDystopia March 3, 2013 at 10:29 pm #

    Not too good, Lucky13.
    Many abandoned factories and shipyards, collapsed brick buildings spilling out onto the streets, murder, rapes, robberies … pretty much what you would expect. Still plenty of swag to pay a football player $120 mil, tho.
    Hey Vlad I thought our fathers and grandfathers took care of you Nazi sonsofbitches in 1945. It looks like a few got away. I would say some of the survivors reproduced, except I know most of them were queer. Where did you come from?
    ==CD

  18. Janos Skorenzy March 3, 2013 at 10:46 pm #

    Thanks for linking to this. If even one young man is saved from your sin it is worth it. Every knock is a boost, even from a knuckle head like you.
    Here’s a good video about the negative brain changes caused by pornography.
    http://crtraditionalism.wordpress.com/2012/10/30/david-duke-the-great-porn-experiment-one-more-devastating-jewish-globalist-influence-and-how-to-overcome-it/

  19. Janos Skorenzy March 3, 2013 at 10:57 pm #

    You’re crazy. I give you a nice post and you turn on me like a dog. Go pick up your leash in your mouth and go show your Masters. And what race is ruining your area? C’mon say it. Have some courage for a change.

  20. elphilipe March 4, 2013 at 12:06 am #

    Walmart is hardly a free market success. We subsidize them by paying for their underpaid employees, a significant number of whom need public assistance to get by. They’re corporate welfare queens, just like most of the big companies goofballs like Gary North call free market successes.

  21. Janos Skorenzy March 4, 2013 at 12:08 am #

    Esther says about Freeman, “As long as we can get the Devil out of him, we will be Ok.”

  22. lucky 13 March 4, 2013 at 12:48 am #

    In TLE, JHK wrote of cities wasting mega millions on
    ‘Malls and Stadiums’, in hopes of bringing the magic back.
    You posted, last year, about going to the town
    of yr boyhood to find a factory you once shopped at.
    What town and what factory?
    You mentioned ‘section 8 housing and idle men’.

  23. lucky 13 March 4, 2013 at 12:50 am #

    I read one GN book, it was about collapse and getting out of the cities.
    If I recall correctly ‘perm bear’ Doug Casey
    like him and recommended his books.
    2 perma bears, but after 40 years their time seems nigh!!!!
    THE DEATH OF THE DOLLAR.

  24. ofthehands.com March 4, 2013 at 1:08 am #

    Yeah, this sort of nonsense is why I recently wrote Let Us Please Not Make It Worse. It’s going to be a hell of a time as it is dealing with contraction, but we could make it an order of magnitude worse by refusing to accept the reality of decline, looking for scapegoats, and clinging with every last ounce of strength to a way of life that’s going away whether we like it or not.
    Unfortunately, it seems like a heck of a lot of people in this country are not going to easily or willfully accept the hard realities coming down on us. Your reference to Nazi Germany may seem overblown at first glance, but it most surely is not. That’s one of the real dangers here. Do we face up to reality and get on with the hard work of dealing with it, or do we desperately grasp around for someone to blame and risk falling in line behind a demagogue who provides us exactly what we’re looking for, to the most horrific of effects?
    It all boils back down to individual action, recognizing our own role in the ways of life that are leading to our decline, and getting down to the work of changing those behaviors and beliefs. It’s the only way we’ll deal with the future in the least worst way.
    I’m still hopeful we’ll respond, while not in the best way, at least not in the worst. But I sure as hell worry. We’ll just have to see what the future brings.
    Joel

  25. Janos Skorenzy March 4, 2013 at 1:35 am #

    You know the Nazis rejected the gold standard and international finance, right? And you know that this lead to an economic “miracle” (basic commonsense) right? And you know that the Bankers who controlled the West could not let this pass since other countries would follow, right? And you know that this was the reason for WW2, right? I’m just kidding, you don’t know any of this. They were also into organic farming, alternate fuels, healthy living, etc.
    Are you sure we were the good guys? Why? Because the schools and the media say so? I thought you knew they were liars? Now just admit you are confused. THAT is the begining of knowledge. As Francis Bacon said, he who starts with doubt will end with knowledge. But he who starts with knowledge will end with doubt.

  26. Neon Vincent March 4, 2013 at 1:37 am #

    Well, you certainly threw down the gauntlet in front of Gary North. Good for you. He deserved every word of it. Your one pitfall is Godwin’s Law. However, it doesn’t apply when one is talking about real fascists.
    In the past two weeks since I last posted here (I skipped last week because of my adventures in health care; I’m minus an organ right now), I only mentioned corn-pone fascists twice. The most recent was about the differences between liberals and conservatives in their grocery shopping, as I promised I would in my previous appearance. Before that, it was as a footnote in my observations as a delegate to the Michigan Democratic Party convention. The MIGOP had their convention at the same time, and the Tea Party candidate for state chair only lost by 4%. Yes, the MIGOP could have become even more a corn-pone fascist organization.
    Most of the rest of the first week’s entries were about the movies, especially the Oscars, but also the science fiction in Skyfall becoming reality. It seems the Chinese were caught doing what the latest James Bond villain did. Life imitating art imitating life. The rest of the month I continued following the price of gas, finished up the February theme of the science of sex, follow-up on the Russian meteor strike, and reflected on the State of the Union.
    This month, the theme is about risk. This ranges from the risks of sinkholes and meteors to the techno-utopian idea of “Hacking the Planet.” In the middle of all of this, Detroit has gone into Emergency Management, but the light rail line is going ahead. Finally, some good news about people managing contraction!
    Happy Motoring–for now–from Detroit!
    http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/

  27. ctemple March 4, 2013 at 1:37 am #

    I’ve read Gary North a lot of times in the Lew Rockwell website, to me he doesn’t seem like a white nationalist or a fascist at all. I would say like almost all libertarians, which is what the Lew Rockwell people are, he only sees what he wants to see about ‘freedom’ and ‘market forces’.
    I’ve seen the libertarians spout crap about how cheap goods benefit everyone many times. I agree with the Lew Rockwell people about wars and foreign policy, not at all about what I would call the ‘mystical market theory’.

  28. TJ March 4, 2013 at 3:06 am #

    I am reminded of a quote from a Canadian Member of Parliament (Eugene Whelan,)regarding NAFTA and Globalization:
    “In the old days we brought the slaves to the work, but now we’re bringing the work to the slave.”

  29. Ixnei March 4, 2013 at 3:27 am #

    LAST!!!
    OMG, some douche-bag piece-of-sh!t actually *TRIED* to claim JHK “an apologist” for the ‘leet’sters?!?
    Ahahaha!!! That is so absurd, as to require a pre-day poast!!!
    And yet, the banksters roll on, with their 70% daily volume trade consisting of millisecond “high frequency” trading. And, it’s *GOTTA* be nice to leverage those *PRINTING PRESS* fed 0% loans, at 30::1!!!

  30. rocco March 4, 2013 at 4:49 am #

    My great state of New York wants to build more casinos, but recent reports state that Indian-US and Canadian have seen huge drop in monies. Bill Maher claims that manfacturing jobs are gone for good, get use to it, and get a education in tech, anything tech. He said we do not need farmers, and hi tech will save America. Oh Zeus why have you abandoned us?

  31. EndofMore March 4, 2013 at 6:00 am #

    While Jim’s views on the dangers of fascism in the USA might be considered extreme, they are in fact perfectly correct
    Hitler came to power in 1933 by promising to take on the role of dictator and ‘do away with’ any opposition to his methods. He was elected because Germany’s economy had collapsed into chaos and voters could see no other way out of the mess.
    within a month he had established concentration camps.
    Now fast forward to the USA in the current era
    It couldn’t happen again?…oh it could, very easily.
    The US and by default most of the world economies are in a tailspin, with a pretence of viability held together by endless borrowing, and promises of ‘growth’
    Economic growth is over, because that derived from cheap oil. Now all the cheap oil has gone but everybody is pretending it’s going to be cheap again
    Without cheap energy economic collapse is certain. when that happens, people will be ready to vote for any lunatic with wild ideas. Hitler gave the German people the Jews as a hate focus, the extreme theo-fascists of our own time will focus on ‘unbelievers’ of any kind, and create a new form of fascist control based on ‘Christian’ dogma. (the mindset is exactly the same)
    in the 2012 election, there were several religious wackos on offer, what happens when the economy has collapsed and a real nutcase gets elected on the jesus ticket?
    Right now, infrastructure services are being severely cut back, which means increased civil disorder. As things deteriorate, ’emergency measures’ will become essential to restore order as conventional government breaks down. So the military will take over the job of policing lawless parts of the nation.
    With half the government already infected with religion, a revolution is not only possible, but highly probable as the fascism of theocracy takes over the nation via the government and the military.
    just as in Germany in the 30s, they then start building concentration camps for infidels like JHK and millions like him.
    Every necessary for this to happen is in place right now

  32. Carol Newquist March 4, 2013 at 7:36 am #

    Let’s not forget some of the cornerstones of Nazi fascism. A fierce nationalism that included the ostracizing of all non-germanic peoples, to include the degradation of immigrants and immigration. Also, a constant referencing to a mythological past which simply never existed. Review the comments section for the past several years and tell me that these freaks aren’t corn-pone fascists beckoning collapse so they can implement their version of fascism modeled off of nazi germany. Why they’ve chosen to hang at JHK’s site still remains a mystery, although I have several theories. I still contend a number of the regular names are sock puppets of four to five, at most, freaks, and they are the same bastards that wrote the filthy and degenerate hate mail to JHK. And yes, this Julian sock puppet is Janos, or more aptly put, Janos and all his manifestations has been Julian all along. For anyone considering home schooling, please look at this final product, and think twice before creating another monster like him.

  33. Laura Louzader March 4, 2013 at 7:45 am #

    There is nothing Free Market about the Big Box takeover of American retail, just as there was nothing Free Market about the destruction of our beautiful cities to build auto-dependent suburbs and a manner of life wholly dependent on the ability to purchase a 3000 lb appliance that gobble space and fuel even when it’s standing still in a parking space provided by the city or by a private entity that gets a tax deduction for doing so.
    You don’t have to dig far to discover that nearly every big barn store, especially Walmart, built within the past 2 decades received a massive local subsidy to build there. Walmart NEVER builds a major store without at least a $4 Million direct subsidy, and is often able to arm-twist municipal authorities desperate for “economic development” into building roads and highways specifically to service the store. Then, 3 years later or less, Wallyworld will arm-twist another spineless town board to raise property taxes on residents to subsidize another, larger store and leave the first standing vacant.
    I know of at least two suburban couples here in the Chicago area blasted out of their houses in outer suburbs by catastrophic tax hikes directly caused by their municipalities’ subsidies of big box stores and shopping malls. The old theory was that your property taxes would be lower in a town with a lot of commerce because the commercial taxpayers would be able to pay much more, but instead, you are now being destroyed to pay for the vast oversupply of Walmarts, Home Depots, Ikea stores, and shopping malls, all now quickly going vacant. The Schaumburg couple of my acquaintance paid $2200 in taxes on their modest ranch house when they bought it in the early 2000s, but taxes had escalated to $8800 within 7 years, something no home buyer counts on happening, or should have to count on happening.

  34. jim e March 4, 2013 at 7:59 am #

    Hold those feet close to the FIRE and remember that Hope Springs Eternal.
    Happy Spring from the Heart of Dixie!

  35. casscomplex March 4, 2013 at 8:32 am #

    And what about American exceptionalism ? yes we are exceptionally bad for the planet

  36. Jeff Mailly March 4, 2013 at 8:41 am #

    I reviewed the link to that Gary North guys site and there’s a reason he deliberately prohibits anyone from commenting on his posts. There is a certain matter-of-fact-ness about him that’s clearly present in any form of argument where someone is speaking from emotion. While I may get some verbal lashing for wanting to take away his first amendment rights, it’s people like him that degrade the quality of the internet. That supposed “blog” post was nothing more than a resentful misinterpretation of fact, regurgitated onto his website to stir up drama amongst his readers (should he be so lucky to have any).
    Jim, I urge you to keep writing from your heart and using your brain to make sense of these difficult times. Your vision of the future is something that any rational person could easily agree with or at least be open to. Perhaps Mr. North’s experience with his own local town boards has been less than pleasurable. I would urge him to get out of his bubble and interact with others, but he doesn’t have a comments section.
    WalMart is easy, it’s convenient, its a bargain and it is ugly and demoralizing to anyone with experience elsewhere. If Mr. North could just get outside of his convenient life and experience something different, if even for just a day, he might realize the value of interconnected local networks of people accomplishing the same thing as WalMart without the corporate oppression. Why he chooses to make irrational negatively-charged blanket statements and characterize all local economies as “oligarchs” is beyond me.
    My only questions to Mr. North would be; for a staunch conservative that believes in the Free Market, why are you against local economies acting freely? If they chose to push out WalMart then that’s their decision to make. Why would you be against local people wanting to get wealthy? Why concentrate all of the profit in WalMart’s hands?

  37. orbit7er March 4, 2013 at 8:50 am #

    Walmart stores were also subsidized by the Feds paying 90% for all those Interstate Highways and the exit ramps with cheap formerly agricultural land they were built on. Walmart is also subsidized for all its trucks shipping all over the USA by the hundreds of billions the Feds give very year to fill the gap for maintaining our Interstates provided by the low gasoline tax. Studies have shown that these trucks are the major factor pounding our Interstates into potholes.
    But just as major parts of the Rightwing ignores the $1 Trillion per year wasted on the US War/National Security machine for huge subsidies to the Military Industrial Complex, so they ignore the $120 Billion subsidy to highways and $20 Billion subsidy to air travel while decrying the $8 Billion spent on maintaining the Rail skeleton which is Amtrak.

  38. AA March 4, 2013 at 8:54 am #

    JHK, you just wasted a blog post on responding to an obvious moron. The USA is awash with such. What possible purpose is served by reacting to this idiot?

  39. Elrond Hubbard March 4, 2013 at 9:12 am #

    Jim,
    Keep fighting the good fight. Hope the arthroscopic surgery you mentioned on your last podcast went well. Cheers!

  40. CaptSpaulding March 4, 2013 at 9:18 am #

    North is spouting the same old Republican shit that I’ve been listening to for most of my life. Even after almost destroying the country under “W”, they never wavered in their chanting of the virtues of unrestrained capitalism. In fact if you remember (and who doesn’t), not one single financier was ever prosecuted for malfeasance. Hell, they didn’t even slow down the awarding of bonuses at that time. When they were asked why they were passing out bonuses the answer was “We have to do it to keep good people.” Not one of their interviewers ever called them on that statement “You mean all the good people who got us into this mess?”. They’ll never change their tune. And yes, we are doomed.

  41. Dirk March 4, 2013 at 9:21 am #

    Well we know, of course, that fundamental Christianity is in bed with right wing Nazi police state thinking; not all but most; nuff said there. What is worse is that ‘thumpers’ believe the Manifest Destiny crap from three centuries ago; that is, that God is ‘blessing’ America for our ‘Christian’ lives, that He (It, She…whatever) loves what we’ve done with the place (North America) and is especially giddy that that we think everything Israel does is totally cool with God. So it is no small wonder that Walmart is become the new de facto temple.

  42. Carol Newquist March 4, 2013 at 9:30 am #

    Why would you be against local people wanting to get wealthy? Why concentrate all of the profit in WalMart’s hands?
    ==========
    In this system, wealth is concentrating in someone’s hands, whether it’s locally, or nationally, or globally. Wealth should not be concentrating. If the system is devised to accomplish that, then the system needs to be discarded, not localized. Neither your argument, nor North’s is a positive solution to the problem of accumulation. Relocalizing has to address the issues of the past and present, or else, you risk laying the groundwork for neofeudalism. No Patrons. No Barons. No exploiters. The villagers of the future must devise a way to make such behavior intolerable and anathema, or else you risk repeating the perpetuating mistakes of the past.

  43. Martin Hayes March 4, 2013 at 9:37 am #

    The villagers of the future must devise a way to make such behavior intolerable and anathema, or else you risk repeating the perpetuating mistakes of the past.
    If any survive industrial civilization, they will not need to devise a way. A new religion, born of terror, desperation, grief and despair will arise from the ruins. Its central tenet will be: “We can never do that again.”

  44. Nastarana March 4, 2013 at 9:43 am #

    The good ole’ boys North refers to were once the heart and soul of the Republican Party. I am inclined to think North is a bought and paid for propagandist.
    Of the hands, I love your phrase, I hope I am quoting right, “opt out of excessive living”. Some folks, in some situations, can be and are, penalaized for doing just that, so choosing voluntary frugality can be both revolutionary and heroic. I suggest a further thing that we all need to do is stop telling lies, to ourselves first and then to others. This seemingly small act can have dire consequences for individuals. What if the person to whom you refuse to tell the comforting fairytale they so much want to hear is your trouble making inlaw, or your backstabbing co-worker?
    I think the kinds of things you, of the hands, are talking about on your excellent blog are absolutely necessary. At some point, if we are ever to confront tyranny on the large scale, we must be able effectively to confront the petty tyrants in our own neighborhoods, and workplaces.

  45. Carol Newquist March 4, 2013 at 9:50 am #

    WalMart trumpets “made-in-America” propaganda around its stores but buys the majority of its merchandise from foreign countries — over $20 billion in merchandise from China every year, and more from other overseas vendors.
    ==========
    Speaking of China, one wonders how much longer this trade charade can continue. 60 minutes had some decent segments last night with their usual spin. This segment highlighted a number of pertinent talking points.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50142078n
    For example:
    1.) Did she receive her education free of charge as part of a giveaway program for immigrants under the guise of diversity? It sure sounds like it, and yet she turns around and heads back to China to become a billionaire using her business acumen and savvy obtained on the English taxpayers’ dime.
    2.) She claims there is still considerable growth in the office space segment, but how could that be considering the trade issue with China is untenable in the long-term, let alone the very short-term? Who is going to occupy all these office towers? Are they going to play musical corporate offices? Tear down ten year old office buildings to make way for more modern versions? If you combine it with the segment that came on its heals, you can’t help but draw the conclusion that this is collective, mass insanity. But isn’t civilization just that?
    3.) She laments that China doesn’t have Democracy like the U.S. All that free education, and she didn’t learn a thing, apparently. What a joke. The U.S. does not have a Democracy. She even goes so far as to imply that “Americans” have no business complaining, and this is what I mean by the 60 minutes spin. The U.S. is not a Democracy, it’s just a veneer of Democracy. The truth is something more akin to this. The U.S. is a Democracy of dollars. Every dollar gets an equal vote. If you have billions of those dollars, that equality really adds up to quite a bit of political influence.

  46. Desertrat March 4, 2013 at 9:52 am #

    I’ve asked clerks at WalMarts in GA and TX about comparative pay between Wally and the local stores. Wally pays better.
    Wally employees are indeed local; they don’t commute from out of state.
    Wally’s prices let the bottom 20% or so of the economic pyramid afford a better material standard of living than otherwise. Why is that bad? Why the hatred of poor people?
    The Interstate Highway System began long before Wally’s existence as a mega-chain. And I doubt that Wally generated the public uproar when Congress was considering an increase in the transportation tax.
    Jim, I agree with you about the future of energy availability and costs. North and I both agree with you about the future of fiat money. But your views are indeed colored by a very snotty, elitist attitude toward Joe Sixpack. You need Ol’ Joe a helluva lot more than he needs you. He delivers your food, repairs your car, fixes your plumbing, climbs those electrical poles–and is maybe a member of “Nascar Nation”.
    So there is much written here with which I fully agree and it’s written in a thoroughly enjoyable style. Unfortunately, you sometimes have your nose stuck up so high that if it rained, you’d drown.

  47. 3rd Generation March 4, 2013 at 9:53 am #

    6:35 AM in California and already 43 geniuses ahead of me here, so I’ll be brief:
    For punishment for his crude and in my personal opinion, stupid remarks, North needs a 5 year sentence with No Time off for good behavior here: http://www.peopleofwalmart.com. He never gets to leave the building, even for medical care. For that, we have a nice imported ‘doctor’ from rural China to administer to his health needs, including mental. You know, one of ‘The Good Old Boys”…
    Thanks for fixing the Kast. I was chuckling when I learned it was your boy-wonder would-be entrp. who fucked things up again.
    Hopefully the Sx went well and you are up and around and in fighting spirits. There are a lot of ignorant clueless assholes in America, and I’ll bet you will be hearing from more as time goes on and things get hotter.
    One More Thing: FUCK WALMART.

  48. budizwiser March 4, 2013 at 9:59 am #

    I don’t like the “name-calling – it is so small town-ish……
    Both of these guys wrote some fair and pointed expository essays about changes to American life as a result of cheap energy.
    At least both of these guys care.
    Neither of these guys is helping to give many tips about how or run the fiat currencies will devalue so much that real goods will be unaffordable.
    Neither of these guys, nor many of the readers are discussing what can be done from within the system to prepare for life when cheap energy derails America’s thirst for growth and credit for its ever falling dollar’s value.
    No I don’t have an orchard or a gun but I am buying metals – just don’t know how or when that can ever be exchanged for a standard of living once the “system” goes down…….
    I guess I need a gun for starters…. any tips?

  49. wardoc March 4, 2013 at 9:59 am #

    Some facts on Gary North:
    1-he claims to have a PhD in “economic history.” This just confirms my bias that most PhDs are narrow morons who simply learn to spit back facts and kiss the asses of their “dissertation committee” (before one attacks me on this, I absolutely know of what I speak here; I have PhD and an MD: the MD was far more substantive and difficult to obtain, also requiring far more thought, contrary to popular belief).
    2-North was one of the major Y2K alarmist, warning people to store food, water and weapons for when the computers went down.
    3-He fundamentalist christian who rails against abortion, and all sorts of evils he sees behind every corner.
    4-North is very obviously ignorant of local economics as well as more macroeconomic issues if he thinks the likes of wallmart are so wonderful. He does not recognize the damage such entities have done to communities. Perhaps he shops at wallmart and is afraid that he won’t be able to buy low quality chinese goods once their system collapses.
    5-it is not clear how one can claim to be a hyper-patriot (if you read his blogs, he clearly claims to be such), and support the raping of US towns by the likes of wallmart.
    6-Finally, North either does not know or care that not only does wallmart play games to avoid health insurance for their employees, when an employee is injured that are treated terriably; one of my patients was injured there when a bunch of heavy boxes fell from 20 feet and hit him in the head causing brain damage. They actually tried to deny that he was in the store at all, and then sent the sleeze defense lawyers to slander him and threaten him into taking their pittance of a settlement. Very nice people; backbone of amerika!!!:)And north supports this type of thing.
    7-James, North is a deluded, likely senile, demented moron; I would ignore him in the future, so as not to reinforce his behavior.
    Wardoc

  50. Carol Newquist March 4, 2013 at 10:00 am #

    Am I just inferring, or is it your implication that it’s a classic Catch 22, meaning we’re damned if we do, and damned if we don’t? I don’t eschew that notion if it is your implication. It’s something I’ve considered for quite some time. How do you build a new world, one that allows for true social evolution, without falling into all the trappings of the old world, considering the seeds of that old world are thoroughly impregnated into the fabric of our indoctrinated beings?
    We were talking about taboo earlier. Perhaps taboos were created for just this very reason. To preclude negative and destructive outcomes that manifested from the previous behavior now rendered taboo. Are taboos are a mechanism of terror? Are they, collectively, a religion unto itself, or a device used by ideology to keep the throngs in line so as to have said throngs do the bidding?

  51. 79iron March 4, 2013 at 10:05 am #

    Reply
    “The next time that you go to the local emergency room and you get examined with an imaging machine think about how the machine got there. Do you have any idea? No? Did you build it? No? ”
    But that item is the result of research, study, the accumulation of knowledge and engineering to bring about a result, the accumulation of effort for a single result, the serialization of work (done probably by a handful of workers) to obtain an accumulated result, the serialization of labor for an end goal or product that benifits all, that contributes to the common good, that remains, that is achieved forever, that will be used over and over again (like information ? but we are all generating a never ending stream of information ? so that means there is a glut of information and all information workers are filling up a space already overflowing with information, but then how much constant and future work can there be if so much information is constantly being generated and is reusable ? (just write down all the combinations of symbols…) like a factory that is building trillions of cars constantly, since information occupies all space and time and more occupies the same metaphysical space, but how much work can there be for information workers when they are all wrting on the same page, the same things, all redundant and such, we have excess capacity in this kind of work…), the very concept of progress as the serialization of effort, the accumulation of work to obtain a clear result, and a clear “common good” for everyone, the common good, the accumulation of work and labor, large scale accumulations of labor, like large public private projects like space travel, the moon progam, skyscraper constructions, high speed train lines and so forth (and also we need to bring back trillions of ocean liners across the sea, all kinds of trans pacific and trans atlantic ocean liners, even through the indian ocean, huge ocean liners operating on nuclear engines travelling 300 km an hour and all such things and such). But that kind of work is being performed by a small percentage of workers, most work is the make believe of work, most work is redundant, most is just a make believe work that must simply reproduce power structures, heirarchies, bosses and workers and all such things, most is just make believe activities that only reinforce the very real status – power – office politics – winners – losers – inequality structures of all human relationships and such.
    There are 100 million workers in the USA, maybe only 100,000 are building long lasting accumulated results like imaging machines and such, the rest are spinning their wheels. And being brainwashed that their labor is accumulative and serializable and for the common good when it is simply dispersion, waste, not building anything and such, just puny office politics, and fights.
    As such most work is not accumulative or serializable, does not accumulate into common good results but are disjoint redundant power plays, the same power structures and human relationship fights over and over again all over the place but doesn’t generate any output, any result, they just serve themselves and reproduce themselves to justify heirarchies, inequalities, winners and losers and such, most work is make believe activity used to reinforce rituals, behaviors, customs and such.
    BUt if all those workers and efforts were focused on serializable results, accumulation of results we could have colonized the solar system and such. That is the meaning of excess capacity and why this non serialized work that now dominates the developed economies is obsolete, not needed, optional, and the reason why so little real work is being created: it is not needed, it just serves to reproduce itself, it serves to reinforce and impose behaviors and rituals that don’t produce anything and such.
    And all of these debates are vain in the end, we are all like lawyers, always finding a way to contradict and demonstrate the other message as wrong, we can keep on debating everything forever, and always find a loophole in some blocks of texts, contradict them, always find a new interpretation, a new fact, just like so many lawyers, finding all kinds of ways to justify one position against another, a never ending game where everyone is right and everyone is wrong and such: big box stores are good or bad ? take your choice, construct your arguments, you will always be able to find a million valid arguments in favor of them and a million valid arguments against them, but in the end it is only a fight, A against B, A wins B loses, end of story, and anyone can pretend to be A or B or take positions in the “war” in favor of A or B.
    I like Big Box stores, we need to construct like crazy (and create excess real estate capacity so the value and cost of renting real estate becomes zero, free rents and such, free housing, crash real estate values by saturating the world with real estate), we need huge consumerism, we need to build like crazy, build and do things, and make ever bigger things, we need to go forward and increase activity like crazy, skyscrapers, trillions of big box stores, trillions of rockets, trillions of all things, I like that the amount of things keeps on increasing, fill the world up with things, saturate all with all kinds of things and then explode them, nuke it all, and mix them all up, muix up pictures and TV shows and TV sets and books and thoughts and emotions and pebbles and planets and formulas and concepts and points and square root symbols and mix things up like crazy, be crazy. AMEN.
    All like lawyers, problems will never be solved since everything is always a problem, we will always have problems no matter what, we are problems, we are the problem. But this is simply all reciprocal information relationships, actions and reactions, an automatic reaction, you say A I will say B and contradict you, a mathematical function we execute constantly generating loads of blocks of texts, we are a fuction, a reply to a reply to a forever…
    And Matter can be combined in so many different ways, we have a lot of disjoint chunks of matter combined in so many different ways on this planet thanks to Man Brains organizing it for functions in certain ways and such (or is it matter that organizes itself in certain ways through man brains by using brains as enzymes, reaction amplifiers ?) but imagine how many combinations of matter are possible near stars, inside other suns, on other planets, in the universe, so many different worlds and environments, in the center of planets having superfluid nucleus and such.
    We have varied items apparently on our planet, but maybe the items can be even more varied even if they appear monolithic like a plasma in a star if the information relationships, the self reinforcing runaway informational reactions and relationships becoming repetitive patterns and such are even richer, way richer than what we experience by some kinds of observer types, other reciprocal plasmas, as all is a play of forces between observers, their functions and mental models and their environments and such, just like a computer sees a world as rich as ours when it looks at a movie, but the movie is only a sequence of bits and such.
    And the computer can see and experience a much wilder and incredible and richer world by mixing up all the bits, making it totally unintelligible, but finding a way to read those new incredible worlds and movies and stories and such.
    spark plug

  52. MisterbadExample March 4, 2013 at 10:05 am #

    Desertrat, don’t know how things shake out in red states, but on average, every Walmart employee costs local, state and federal taxpayers some $2200 a year in income supports (everything from Section 8 housing to Medicaid, food stamps, and free school lunches for the kids). The profit from Walmart doesn’t stay in town–it goes back to Arkansas, where it keeps several billionaire Walton heirs in the Forbes 400 club.
    And the crux of the problem is that the profits from national chains don’t stay local–if TGIFriday’s drives your locally owned restaurants out of business, that means they aren’t buying restaurant supplies and groceries locally. They also don’t care about the community–if the store doesn’t meet its profit targets, they close up and open ten miles down the road. Don’t call out Jim for being elitist–look at the issues he’s bringing up and if you can’t find a counter-argument, maybe he’s right.

  53. tstreet March 4, 2013 at 10:08 am #

    In my small town, Main Street is not history and we do not have any big box stores in town or near town. Although, people do to go the valley from time to time which is 35 miles away. But we seem to have a number of independent business persons which is unusual for a small town. We do have an Ace Hardware, but this is a relatively small store and they are part of a cooperative which bans together to compete against the likes of Wal Mart.
    This does not mean, however, that young people who need decent jobs are doing well. But that is probably part of a larger national problem that has more to do with the general exportation of decent jobs throughout America.
    Frankly, with or without Wal Mart, no one has a simple solution for the general problem of hollowed out America. Part of the solution, however, may have something to do with rejecting the idea that unrestrained global trade lifts all boats and make everybody better off. That textbook economic theory does not seem to have paid off.
    I have read anecdotal evidence recently that Wal Mart is having problems keeping their shelves stocked and may be cutting back on the number of brands for each item sold. Not sure what that is about but maybe there is a little crack in the Wal Mart empire.

  54. steve March 4, 2013 at 10:17 am #

    Consider it an honor to be attacked by the old fool, Gary North. He’s been a shill for Christian fundamentalism and corporate statism for many, many years. Learned it under the tutelage of his daddy-in-law, Rushdoony, who considered himself something of a cornpone pope. Ask him about his predictions of Y2K catastrophe, one of many idiocies he’s spouted through the years. Anyone who pays attention to this fool should be horsewhipped around a WalMart parking lot.

  55. AstraNavigo March 4, 2013 at 10:19 am #

    I tried to interview Gary North three years ago for an online magazine. If he wants a definition of ‘arrogant’, he can look in the mirror.
    (Being called out by North as a ‘leftie elitist’ would be a badge of honor of sorts – assuming that most people even knew who this semiliterate Fundie really is. As we can all see by the comments above, most don’t.)

  56. newworld March 4, 2013 at 10:22 am #

    Not a fan of walmart, or North but in my perfect world North and his antagonists here could both go jump in the fires of hell.
    Basically you anti-whites are evil and your mega corparations who fund you are evil as well.

  57. Carol Newquist March 4, 2013 at 10:38 am #

    It’s not surprising North is defending Walmart if he’s a Christian Reconstructionist. Walmart, more than any corporation, reflects the recent nexus between commerce, politics and christianity. The vanguard of Christocorporatism, if you will. CNBC aired a documentary called The New Age of Walmart in 2009. Their shareholder meetings are reminiscent of the Nazi rallies at Nuremburg, just smaller in scale, for now.
    http://www.hulu.com/watch/103756

  58. lterrell March 4, 2013 at 10:38 am #

    Funny how Gary North doesn’t even know the meaning of the words that he is using. Calling local business owners Oligopolists when the definitions of an Oligopoly neatly applies to Wal-Mart in many circumstances:
    “A market condition in which sellers are so few that the actions of any one of them will materially affect price and have a measurable impact on competitors.”
    “Economics a market situation in which control over the supply of a commodity is held by a small number of producers each of whom is able to influence prices and thus directly affect the position of competitors”
    “The market condition that exists when there are few sellers”
    In order to call a Spade a Spade and a Shovel a Shovel, you first have to know what they both are.

  59. Faust100F March 4, 2013 at 10:38 am #

    Jim, I am with 1000%, this country has been gutted by jokers like this. Out here West of the Mississippi, our county seats are ghost towns, gutted by this operation that destroyed all commerce. Someone should find a cottonwood tree and string this sucker up. Great Article! Great Response! You are indeed da . . . man! John

  60. ChicagoRob March 4, 2013 at 10:41 am #

    In 1999, North was, of course, diatribing about how the Y2K problem was going to crash Civilization As We Know It. He laced all of his pronouncements with nyah-nyah “Christian” fulminations. Like quoting passages from the OT about killing disobedient children, etc. After reading him a while, I got into an e-mail exchange with him. Which was short-lived, because we got into a certain point in our discussions and he bailed with the inquisitorial challenge: “Who is your pastor? I want to talk to him.”
    I didn’t have a pastor. Which left him nowhere to go.
    But it struck me how when, backed into a corner, he revealed himself to be primarily a fire-and-brimstone Old Leviticus type. Everything else is just a cover. He wants to be The One In Charge, with the ultimate power of life and death. And I mean that literally.

  61. mistified March 4, 2013 at 10:41 am #

    ” How is it so different in kind from the tyrannical one-party rule of the old soviet system…”
    Oh for fuck’s sake. You want to get exercised about Walmart and then compare it to the “one-party rule” of the former USSR?
    Lets get a bit more real. Look at the shambles that is California. Look at Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, Washington D.C., New Orleans, El-Lay, etc. etc. etc. Those aren’t stores. Those are politically controlled entities. And they are disasters. And they are all controlled by “tyrannical one party rule”. Get exercised about that, moron, not a purveyor of cheese doodles and cheesier tank tops. Wake the fuck up.

  62. Smokyjoe March 4, 2013 at 10:42 am #

    Since we are slinging slurs here, North is a Christo-fascist, the sort enamored of what the our model of capitalism has done to our culture.
    He’s probably too young to recall the hard-working, free-market-loving folks who built and ran the small businesses crushed by giants like Wal-Mart.
    Monopoly can be a consequence of a free market, but it’s not inevitable. Consumers also chose Wal-Mart and Home Depot over their local stores. They can choose otherwise too.
    JHK cannot win: called a leftie but a dunce like North and a misogynist by some reviewers of his novels. Given that both Left and Right vilify him, I’d conclude his politics must be in about the correct place.

  63. Smokyjoe March 4, 2013 at 10:44 am #

    “Hey Vlad I thought our fathers and grandfathers took care of you Nazi sonsofbitches in 1945”
    That’s the problem with Nazis, “Comrade.” Can’t live with them, cannot get them to congregate in large enough numbers to area-bomb them with a 1000-plane raid any more.
    Pity.

  64. Carol Newquist March 4, 2013 at 10:49 am #

    Today, those planes would be drones, even if this could be accomplished. Dresden didn’t accomplish it, either. Instead, after the war, the U.S. imported a significant crop of Nazis in Operation Paperclick and permeated the budding intelligence services with them. Nice.

  65. LifeSupport March 4, 2013 at 10:49 am #

    “Walmart is hardly a free market success. We subsidize them by paying for their underpaid employees, a significant number of whom need public assistance to get by.”
    There it is. Their success derives from the exact opposite of the sort of complex interdependencies that once existed in our communities. They are not only hard on their employees and heavy-handed in local politics, but brutal in their dealings with their suppliers as well.
    In the historic section of the small rural town I live in, a lady I’ve known for twenty years struggles to keep her quaint little music store above water. One day while I was visiting there, I witnessed a rather unpleasant exchange between her and her landlady having to do with late rent. The next day, I came back and bought a violin, partly because I’ve always wondered if I could play the violin (having never tried), and partly because it just seemed like a good time to support my local music store. Whenever I need a hardware item, I always check first at the local hardware store. Our kids were in Cub Scouts together about ten years ago. Sometimes my need for the item is not the main reason for my visit. Before the owners of the bookstore/video rental place turned the operation over to their kids, they used to distribute free surplus produce. It was weird. There’d be boxes of pears or asparagus stacked up in front of the displays. I can see why the kids chose not to continue the practice. What hasn’t changed is that it’s still something of a social nexus. Depending on who’s in there at the time, I might be lucky to get out in less than an hour. All of these establishments are within a fairly easy walking distance of my home (for some values of “easy”; the music store is about 2 miles away, but the others less than a mile).
    There has long been controversy over implementing local policies that would make our town more attractive to Big Box outfits (as if the ones some twenty miles away didn’t already impact small local businesses enough). Should one of those abominations ever appear here, the locals could not only save a lot of money on “items”, but a lot of time as well. But to properly calculate the benefits, it would be necessary to place a value on the intangible things that would be lost. I don’t know of any good way to do that. Some things just can’t be measured in dollars.

  66. progress4conserving March 4, 2013 at 10:51 am #

    Very nice takedown of this North fellow, James.
    Although I don’t believe that it was Wal-Mart that destroyed the walkable cities and towns for which some of us pine. They were destroyed by the growth of the SUBURBS, with the attendant dispersed shopping and then the MALLS, and this happened while Sam Walton was running just a couple of stores around Benton, Arkansas.
    The problem with Wal-Mart as a dominant commercial force is they have the single minded focus of becoming the “only game in town.” Right now, in most areas, this means that Wal-Mart provides reasonable service at dirt-cheap prices. That’s the American Capitalistic Model of Competition, and it WORKS.
    It works to destroy competition.
    Imagine what will happen when Wal-Mart WINS.
    Imagine Wal-Mart AS, “The Only Game in Town.”
    It will not be pretty.
    Thanks for your voice and views, JHK.
    You are a voice in the wilderness, as yet.
    But you need to be heard.

  67. BROOMSGOAT March 4, 2013 at 11:02 am #

    Jim please, I didn’t know him, many others didn’t know him. You should have left him that way. Sometimes doing nothing is the hardest thing to do. So doing nothing becomes the hardest thing you can do. Oh well, we all have to live and learn, eh?

  68. progress4conserving March 4, 2013 at 11:02 am #

    And thanks for cleaning up the comments section this morning, JHK.
    The very first post of the week, and probably first to go, was a post by “adequatio.” This personage, aka The Resident Impediment, has filled your discussion threads with enough lies and half-truths to destroy several good books, over the years.
    And he has used the word “racist” simply to win arguments and curtail honest discussion. Which is something at which a TRUE “racist,” like the now-vanished “adequatio,” excels.
    Thank you for what you do, James Howard Kunstler.

  69. Martin Hayes March 4, 2013 at 11:03 am #

    Taboo alone appears to be able to restrain human passion, so that is a shrewd guess. But taboo is always contentless. We are told little, if anything, of why Lucifer rebelled. It is enough to fear. In the uncertain future in which humanity must begin anew, let us hope for something better than superstition, powerful storytelling, perhaps. What would a young mother in some far off future say to her curious child who has just unearthed an artefact of the long ago industrial past? What form would a taboo take that would be guided by love rather than fear, so that human curiosity could be satisfied, but that we wouldn’t repeat our mistakes?

  70. popcine March 4, 2013 at 11:10 am #

    Here is an article, very much to the point, about what it’s like to be a manager in training at Walmart. Really awful.
    http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/inside_walmarts_manager_training_20121214/

  71. mdl17576 March 4, 2013 at 11:13 am #

    “Who are these people? These faces? Where did they come from? They look like caricatures of used car dealers from Dallas, and sweet Jesus, there are a hell of a lot of them at 4:30 on a Sunday morning. Still humping the American dream.” – Hunter S. Thompson in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.
    There are a hell of a lot of them, despite 40 years of evidence that the dream will inevitably turn into a nightmare. I’ve tried to wake people up through various means, but most just seem determined to double down on failure. I have no sympathy for them anymore. I do have a lot of contempt and will feel no shame exploiting their ignorance. As P.T. Barnum said, there is a sucker born every minute and that was in the 19th century. With exponential population growth its more like a sucker is born every second.

  72. Imagainstit March 4, 2013 at 11:17 am #

    Excellent comment, relevant questions at the end. Mr. North tips his hand, I believe, in his use of the word “hippyland.” It’s simple ingrained prejudice against people with certain preferences ’cause you’re absolutely right, he should embrace the principles you mention. (Reminds me of Ted Nugent praising every guitarist mentioned in a Guitar Player Magazine interview years ago EXCEPT Jerry Garcia. Jerk.)

  73. helen highwater March 4, 2013 at 11:18 am #

    It sure didn’t take long for the nutcases to show up this morning.

  74. Zev Paiss March 4, 2013 at 11:18 am #

    The global model that Walmart has used so successfully to capture town after town is dependent on inexpensive oil to move items around the globe. As the prices rise their advantages will shrink. It may not happen this year or even in the next few years but it will happen. In the mean time we need to support our local businesses as must as we are able.
    For a visin of a post Peak Oil and Climate Change community, take a look at http://www.fromhere-tothere.org
    Zev in Colorado

  75. Casual Observer March 4, 2013 at 11:18 am #

    I didn’t know who Gary North was prior to this. The only thing Gary North did was to give JHK more clout and credibility. For a guy with a doctorate he did a poor job picking apart Jim’s blog. What a dimwit.
    As proof that local economies without Walmart and other big box stores are more valuable and can succeed I share with you a story of how I saved money shopping at a small town hardware store in rural NC recently. Seriously, I saved a couple hundred bucks on lumber for a deck project all because the woman who owned the hardware store said her pricing philosophy was to ensure she did not drive her customers away to the city to get their wares. She was savvy enough to buy most lumber products at a lower cost than Lowes or Home Depot could from its vendor base! She wanted to pass on those low costs to her loyal, rural (neighbors) customers! She was no oligopolist, just a hardworking Mom and businesswoman with a strong will to succeed!

  76. mistified March 4, 2013 at 11:31 am #

    “It sure didn’t take long for the nutcases to show up this morning.”
    I agree. You logged in right on schedule, fuckwhit.

  77. mistified March 4, 2013 at 11:37 am #

    “She was savvy enough to buy most lumber products at a lower cost than Lowes or Home Depot could from its vendor base! ”
    This defies logic. If this were true the likes of Walmart, et al would not exist

  78. Desertrat March 4, 2013 at 11:40 am #

    MisterBadExample, I don’t argue about where WalMart’s profits go. But they and the other big-boxes DO allow poor people to afford things which they otherwise could not buy from stores which sell at full retail.
    I dunno. I don’t have a lot of use for “The People of WalMart”. Sure, I’m a snob–but I keep my mouth shut about it. I figure that even a lycra-clad fatso has as much right to satisfaction in shopping as I do.
    I’m probably in the top five percent, as far as net worth. Howsomever, that doesn’t keep me out of Big Lots and Goodwill when I go shopping. Price vs. quality is what’s important to me. Bug spray or beans, the can cares not about seller or purchaser.

  79. Glensufi March 4, 2013 at 11:50 am #

    For anyone even marginally paying attention we are at a completely new place in human history. Way way too many people all wanting the “good” life and it’s simply not possible. The Godawful intersection of the crazy idea of infinite growth combined with a broken financial system and environmental end games. I do try to see some way out ala Kurzweil and/or a return to some sanity ala Schumacher but for the life of me it just seems to broken to fix.

  80. Caryl Johnston March 4, 2013 at 11:57 am #

    I am glad you caught this, Jim. Gary North is an ill-mannered hick, a most unpleasant person indeed – as I know from personal experience when I happened to write him to express some appreciation for something he said. (Not the Walmart issue). He wrote back an unbelievably arrogant reply. He writes for Lew Rockwell com and I’d like to see him fired.

  81. sevenmmm March 4, 2013 at 12:00 pm #

    North is a Libertarian Dilemma. Free market access for closed market industry with a business model that is protected by law. Crosses my eyes to think how stupid some of these fools are. How these people can believe the money is going to loop back around is laughable.

  82. Bludawg March 4, 2013 at 12:02 pm #

    We stopped shopping at WalMart many years ago when they eliminated meat cutting in the stores because the meat cutters wanted to unionize. We became WalMart haters when we witnessed towns that had WalMart and pawn shops, nothing else. The towns became so poor. How pathetic. WalMart is a parasite.
    Who cares what Gary North says anyway.

  83. sevenmmm March 4, 2013 at 12:07 pm #

    This video is in keeping with James’s prediction of the future of politics in America:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14Ue60RBD-Y

  84. AA March 4, 2013 at 12:17 pm #

    Desertrat, the problem is that by eviscerating local manufacture (Walmart sourcing is global) and retail, Walmart and its ilk are helping to create those very poor — who are then forced to shop at Walmart. The light at the end of the tunnel is that now that the era of cheap energy is over, this model of global sourcing will come to an abrupt end. Too long have Americans been seduced and trapped by the siren song of “cheap,” not pausing to think of all the other costs that have been adroitly brushed under the rug.

  85. Piper Michael March 4, 2013 at 12:19 pm #

    James,
    Ideological rigor mortis, works both ways.
    It is not just the right who are lost in their ideology…
    Ideology itself is the killer of minds. We have the ideology of Ayn Rand ism, and the ideology of Marx ism, it is isms that kill.
    When ideology is centralized, it breeds power, power attracts evil, and evil attracts evil like moths to a flame.
    Let us all remember that centralization of anything breeds absolute power, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
    The world made by hand, will, no, must move through a world made by blood. Kill the suits, not just the right wingers, but the left as well.
    Once the death angel rides, it will be everybody against everybody, poor against rich, black against white, the only way out, is to withdraw. To go ‘into the wilderness’, is to leave the system, and form alt.system. This is already beginning is various places.
    But, I also heard a little bird this week… the little bird said it was ‘getting on time to stand the bastards up against the wall’… this little bird, supported ‘the system’, up until a few months ago. Now he thinks neither party is looking out for us anymore. People are awakening and they see, the kabuki dance in the theater of the damned.
    It is later than you think.

  86. ccm989 March 4, 2013 at 12:23 pm #

    As usual another excellent article by JHK. Keep knocking down the lunatics! Gary North is nothing more than Ted Nugent typing on a computer with spell check. The more you knock North down, the more people will c&p your articles and the more people will wake up to the fact that the world is currently contracting.
    How long will it be before the effects of Sequestration kick in? Is that the tipping point? Will planes collide because no one is in the air tower directing traffic? Will little kids who lose food stamps and oldsters who lose Meals On Wheels all starve? We may survive or we may be forced to enjoy this single Tea Party “victory”. But really is it a victory? I don’t know the answer to any of those questions but I do know that as long as JHK and John Stewart and others like them keep writing/keep talking/keep letting us know what’s really happening, we have a chance for another tomorrow. And maybe that’s enough.

  87. Al Klein March 4, 2013 at 12:25 pm #

    Janos… Hitler did not exactly reject the gold standard, although he did not think it a worthwhile standard.
    From a speech Hitler made on December 10, 1940 at the Rheinmetall Works in Berlin:
    “To take another instance where we are condemned: They claim to be fighting for the maintenance of the gold standard as the currency basis. That I can well believe, for the gold is in their hands. We, too, once had gold, but it was stolen and extorted from us. When I came to power, it was not malice which made me abandon the gold standard. Germany simply had no gold left. Consequently, quitting the gold standard presented no difficulties, for it is always easy to part with what one does not have. We had no gold. We had no foreign exchange. They had all been stolen and extorted from us during the previous fifteen years. But, my fellow countrymen, I did not regret it, for we have constructed our economic system on a wholly different basis. In our eyes, gold is not of value in itself. It is only an agent by which nations can be suppressed and dominated.”

  88. Bludawg March 4, 2013 at 12:30 pm #

    You can’t eat metal. We are learning to be as self sufficient as we can. Long ways from it, but we’re trying. Growing a garden, canning veggies, hunting, raising chickens and looking into raising meat rabbits. Neighbors are doing similar things. Hopefully we’ll make different things and have enough to trade.

  89. Carol Newquist March 4, 2013 at 12:34 pm #

    the little bird said
    =============
    Did someone say little birdie? Here’s some theme music to go with that.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U9_RZJMQyo

  90. Julian C. Lee March 4, 2013 at 12:35 pm #

    “But taboo is always contentless.”
    Are you here from NAMBLA?
    No, taboo is always content-rich, content-loaded, and contentfull.

  91. ofthehands.com March 4, 2013 at 12:44 pm #

    Hi Janos,
    Well, I tend to believe the Holocaust happened. I’m not that interested in attempting to prescribe purely virtuous intent to the West, mind you, but that’s beside the point.
    I’m worried about us finding an out group to cast all our frustrations upon in the evolving hard times, rather than looking within ourselves and taking the much more challenging course of changing our own behavior. Time and time again, humans have taken the scape goat route instead. My hope is we don’t do it this time, though I’m not sure there’s much basis for such hope.
    Joel

  92. Carol Newquist March 4, 2013 at 12:45 pm #

    But Hitler and his brood of megalomaniac mobsters’ actions belied their words. He may have touted fiat currency, but at the same time, he was absconding the gold of all the countries he was occupying. Actions speak louder than words.
    http://rwhiston.wordpress.com/2012/01/11/13/
    And sure, some of that was taking back what was stolen from Germany, but that wasn’t his motivation, or at least it wasn’t the motivation of the arch criminals who occupied Nazi Germany’s highest offices.

  93. Al Klein March 4, 2013 at 12:49 pm #

    Jim… Gary North is just a rude, old, self-stupified has-been. Especially telling is his characterization of you as “foul-mouthed.” This is just the kind of sanctimonious posturing I would expect from North. Excoriating you for the occasional well-placed and highly appropriate “fuck” or “shit” while conveniently ignoring the mayhem visited upon the society by such actors as Walmart. North is a modern day puritan, you see. The poor are poor because G-d is punishing them for their transgressions. The poor are doubly disadvantaged, for they are both poor and damned by G-d. By corollary, the rich are loved by G-d. Thus being rich is clearly virtuous. This algebra is very convenient, so long as you’re not poor.

  94. ignatz March 4, 2013 at 1:02 pm #

    I think the following comment by North should be responded to, as on the surface it seems quite reasonable:
    “Excuse me? Am I to believe that some underfunded little store in a strip mall is going to be able to pay for truckers to deliver supplies when Walmart can’t? Really?”
    Local production is slowly increasing even now in agricultural production. I am buying most of my food needs locally now at competitive costs and that money is spent on better product than the imports.
    Local supply and even production of other goods will increase as transportation costs for both producer and consumer rise forcing the ratio of the costs of local storage to costs of ‘just in time’ delivery to decrease.
    I am old enough to remember how supply depended upon storage, before the automobile became part of the the supply system. Part of that system of storage was through mail order, as North argues (and shoots himself in the foot) in describing Amazon delivery as something new and shiny. It is just a step back into the past of, low energy goods storage and distribution, rather than the Wall-Mart model of energy intensive goods juggling.

  95. Julian C. Lee March 4, 2013 at 1:03 pm #

    “Jim… Gary North is just a rude, old, self-stupified has-been. Especially telling is his characterization of you as “foul-mouthed.”
    I guess you didn’t notice Mr. Kunstler uses the F word in the very title of his blog.
    “This is just the kind of sanctimonious posturing…”
    Can’t anything be sancty ever?
    “Excoriating you for the occasional well-placed and highly appropriate “fuck” or “shit”
    No you admit that the Christian Ziobot was correct.
    “North is a modern day puritan,…”
    What could be bad about that. Purity is good. Seems everybody wants purity in their food, drugs, air, etc.
    “The poor are poor because G-d is punishing them for their transgressions.”
    Everything is karma. But it doesn’t mean that caring about the poor isn’t virtuous. Christianity has a huge tradition of charity and care for the poor that, I think, well excels the J-wish approach which consists of taxing and misappropriating wealth to the undeserving and raising the undeserving up as tyrants.

  96. Steve March 4, 2013 at 1:05 pm #

    If it were me I’d be flattered -a bit- to be the lightning rod for such Joe Goebbels mouth flatulence. Where we’re actually going wallys and all can be seen in my former home Detroit. Post industrial Mad Max theme park where they could use some hefty horses. To get around . This begs the question as to weither the human species deserves continuation. If North is what passes for intellectualism , the sooner the country bites the dust the better off other peoples will be . Especially Canada .
    As Detroit was pimped and carved by GM , Ford, and Chrysler the same fate awaits Atlanta and the other burbolis s. Trouble is we direly need areas to store such doorknobs . Good thing death and time keep Goebbels from online chatting with North ! As it happens I knew a person or two whose folks ran small retail operations up near the Erie Canal . And I’ve come to favor a Michigan east-west canal to set up small black market trading post/s. For the world North and others really crave. ( NRA Somali style ‘forts’ included.) The more DONE it all is the less North types can see it. Isn’t that a definition of cosmic stupidity after all ? Indeed wasn’t I no worse off living in Mexico – twelve years-where warlord cartels at least build schools and clinics ? I am learning garage industry canning

  97. Bustin Jay March 4, 2013 at 1:10 pm #

    Rawnt quoted Perkins, ” This system… is driven (by): the idea that all (any) economic growth benefits humankind and that the greater the growth (of capital), the more widespread the ‘benefits’.”
    “…(Also) people who excel at stoking the fires of economic growth should be exalted and rewarded, while those born at the fringes are available for exploitation.”
    Who are we, in this late hour of human development?

    Young people today do not show the same amount of concern that youth of past generations expressed for the state of their country or for current affairs that either directly effect (or will soon directly effect) them and their loved ones. Self caring means that you have concern for others, but not at the expense of yourself. Those of today’s generation have taken it to an unprecedented level and seem to take pride in being self-centered and for caring only about their needs and wants.
    “They are completely self-driven and more concerned with their image and materialistic things than issues that affect the entire country and even the rest of the world,” Dr. Drummond said.

    Someone once floated the turd idea that the kids are going to save us, by inventing something you can stick in your ear and receive telecommunications, or a magical paste which makes all problems dissolve.
    I’ve been around a college campus for much of hte last 6 years. With a little persistence of memory and perception, you can discern the trends. The trends are not good, my normally-worlded friends. Todays kids are pretty fucking stupid, and completely self-centered. The general idea is to stay happy by keeping your world very small, and not asking any deep questions, and maintaining the worldview of one’s immediate “friends”.
    These emerging Digitadults never experienced a world without cellphones, video games, and porn on demand. Most come from “broken homes”, which is now an obsolete term, as this is the majority situation. (Some) will be able to hold a job in this rudderless e-conomy, and others are going to be an ongoing medicated headache for their parents… a general ideopathy created by a generation of helicopter parents, especially single moms.

  98. San Jose Mom 51 March 4, 2013 at 1:13 pm #

    Carol,
    I agree that 60 Minutes report on the Chinese building boom was interesting. Additionally, the office buildings in China were better looking than I expected.
    Of course, the English Tudor village community was contrived, but most of the residential buildings were better than the “PoMo and DeCon” crap in the West. Check out JHK’s “EyeSore of the Month”–a horrid apartment building in Paris…a feng shui nightmare.

  99. sotolvision March 4, 2013 at 1:17 pm #

    Jeez, James, I’m sorry you had to defend yourself against the blather of a nincompoop who made you out to be a poster-child for those among us who are outraged & saddened by the magical thinking & clever heist which outsourced, downsized and shuttered main street while introducing the seductive allure of big box stores to consumers for whom there was apparently never a yesterday and certainly not a tomorrow.

  100. Bustin Jay March 4, 2013 at 1:24 pm #

    CFNewsquist said, “Review the comments section for the past several years and tell me that these freaks aren’t corn-pone fascists beckoning collapse so they can implement their version of fascism modeled off of nazi germany.”
    Here’s my objection to all your (and others’) huffin’ & puffin’ at a little text-based racism.
    As much as it might pain you mightily to hear the distasteful rhetoric of certain points of view, molehills aren’t mountains.
    People react to the mere exposition of racial views as if there were actual corpses swinging from trees, actual moonshine and tobacco spit being passed around, and actual flies buzzing in the fetid heat of Southern Mississippi.
    You simply don’t have the right to get so pissed off about racist concepts just because of events in the past. Today’s racism is a cute, friendly kind of pop mythology, at least in America. Somebody hates you? Thinks you’re stupid? Awwwwww! Grow up, Joe. Ain’t nobody that isn’t hated from the day they were born by somebody, somewhere.
    You’ve been wanting to fight Nazis since you had nothing but a fistful of green Army men to your name and guess what, the GREATEST GENERATION won that war so we don’t have to deal with YOUR pretend bullshit.
    I love the racial chit-chat. Its imaginative and colorful. The alternative is an insipid political correctness whose sell-by date is long since past.

  101. Desertrat March 4, 2013 at 1:28 pm #

    I learned of Hubbert’s Pimple from a geologist in 1966.
    WalMart didn’t send jobs overseas; for years its policy was “Buy American” and stocked US-made products. Finally, pricing competition forced their present sourcing.
    We didn’t “send” jobs overseas. The rest of the world began serious industrializing in the 1950s/1960s and kicked our butts in the world marketplace. The how and why this came to be is irrelevant; the fact remains that they have done so and are continuing to do so. To me, the issue is how to compete, not worry about who to blame.
    I’ve been watching monetary and fiscal policies and decisions for almost forty years, ever since the price of cement in three months time jumped from $4/bbl to $11/bbl. April, 1974. Due to new, much higher energy costs.
    I’ve read North’s stuff for quite a while. He generally is spot-on in his economic analyses of the meaning of trends. The Austrian School guys have put together a darned good track record.

  102. Carol Newquist March 4, 2013 at 1:31 pm #

    I agree. The architecture was better than most crap we see here in the West as of late. It only adds to the irony. No one will ever enjoy it. It’s a bridge to nowhere. There are so many of these bridges these days. Nowhere must be one hell of a place.
    The female real estate mogul did say one thing with which I agreed. Her criticisms of Wall Street were completely accurate.
    The subtle, or not so subtle, implication from the two segments combined is the strong possibility for social unrest once these bubbles burst. They kept saying “if” the bubble bursts. I yelled at them several times (for some reason they didn’t hear me). There is no “if,” only “when.” Considering China’s lopsided male to female ratio, the Chinese government may have no other choice than to start a major war somewhere so as to direct all that angry testosterone at a created enemy.
    That French building is disgusting. Succotash and/or stew doesn’t lend itself well to architecture. Incongruity is the latest and greatest, much to our eyes’ chagrin.

  103. Martin Hayes March 4, 2013 at 1:32 pm #

    No, taboo is always content-rich, content-loaded, and contentfull.
    Would you like to help the conversation along, please, Julien? I’m trying to imagine what form a taboo might take in a future society that would safeguard it against preferring power over life. I’d expect that for such a proscription to have lasting success, a society would have to rediscover storytelling, animated with archetypal power, that is, religion.

  104. bossier22 March 4, 2013 at 1:36 pm #

    If you are inexperienced, crazy uncle joe biden is right. start with a shotgun. make it a pump instead of a double barrel.

  105. Janos Skorenzy March 4, 2013 at 1:52 pm #

    Holocaust? Which one? The Dresden Holocaust? The Holocaust against the Ukrainian People by the Russian Communists? The one against the Armenians by Turks of non Turkish lineage? The one against the Baltic Germans which cost millions of lives? The proposed one against the German People which would have starved them to death – called the Morgenthau Plan? A Senator of German descent actually called the Eisenhower Administation out, accusing them of planning genocide. They backed off and only hundred of thousands died of hunger (yes, the Allies refused the Germans food) instead of the many millions they desired.
    Oh and btw, how many Americans died in WW2? You don’t know, do you? But you know about the “six million”? That’s strange, don’t you think? We are an Occupied Nation.
    The Nazis, for all their sins, were fighting International Banking, the same foe we must fight to retain our Freedom. And who funded Communism? You think peasants with pitchforks threw down the Czar? The Bankers based in London and New York funded them.

  106. jmann March 4, 2013 at 1:58 pm #

    JHK, I haven ‘t commented in years… your post today is right on. The big-box “category killer” chains have hollowed out the civic core of our small cities and towns – no one interested in the upkeep of downtown because the stores are out in a strip mall, and the CVS pharmacist is now a glorified clerk working like a chinese laborer to check what – thousands? of refills per day? My own “understanding” of this history is that the appearance of computers in business starting in the 60’s allowed chains like Walmart and CVS and Home Depot to manage the restocking and logistics around huge numbers of SKUs so well that small town owners could not compete. Clearly the automobile post-WW2 also played a part. But none of this enabling technological change requires a Wal-Mart or anyone else to treat its employees like crap. Somehow we’ve lost the notion that people are worth something.
    At this point we’ve just about finished replacing labor with capital (i.e. automation) and now we have a problem – without good jobs people cannot afford much. The benefits of all this improvement in efficiency have gone to shareholders, not to the workers whose “productivity” is supposedly tops in the world (because in the productivity fraction, output per worker, the denominator has been reduced).

  107. Julian C. Lee March 4, 2013 at 1:59 pm #

    “I’ve been around a college campus for much of hte last 6 years. With a little persistence of memory and perception, you can discern the trends. The trends are not good, my normally-worlded friends. Todays kids are pretty fucking stupid, and completely self-centered. The general idea is to stay happy by keeping your world very small, and not asking any deep questions, and maintaining the worldview of one’s immediate “friends”.
    Tallies w/my observations.
    One thing notable about the youth of Portland: Nobody Talks About Anything. I very rarely hear actual conversations. But I know a lot of the conversations have gone digital, into the airwaves.
    All the women, and some of the men, are always clutching these little pads and poking at them, even when they walk. The human need to be connected is baseline, and they’re clutching at that connectedness any way they can. No time for anything else. You should see how their thumbs feverishly plod against their i-thingies when having, say, an emotional argument with some BF-or-other.
    …Most come from “broken homes”, which is now an obsolete term, as this is the majority situation.
    And therefore the males hate their mothers, who usually stomped and wasted the father, and the young women hate their absent fathers. Thus they seek out ‘partners’ as different as possible, physically, from their mothers and fathers. (One pathology leads to another.) They are down to getting thrills from tattooing their bodies (now creeping up to the face), piercing themselves, stretching out their earlobes with plastic disks like Africa tribesman, making a porn video of them with their boyfriend to submit to The Portland Mercury’s “amateur porn festival” — and breaking whatever taboo they perceive as still standing.
    The Delusion of Technological Progress, the dawn of Carhell, and general moral breakdown — have to be discussed all at once or there’s no point. I’d rather be around a bunch of virtuous people living in some carhell like Salt Lake City than be around a bunch of politically correct degenerates enjoying fabulous “urban fabric.”

  108. Billyg1962 March 4, 2013 at 2:01 pm #

    Mar 4, 11:02 AM EST
    Your buddy Obama :
    OBAMA NOMINATES WAL-MART’S BURWELL AS BUDGET CHIEF
    BY JULIE PACE
    AP WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT

  109. Janos Skorenzy March 4, 2013 at 2:05 pm #

    Yes, she is a mysterious person, with no training in architecture, but lots in Finance. Goldman Sachs is the operative word. She is some kind of agent for them I assume.
    And she is part of the problem – admitting that too many houses were built that no one can afford, but still blowing up the office building bubble. She will get out at just the right time though.
    If the Chinese economy collapses, the International Bankers will be able to gain more power there. Ever are they the ruin of Nations. One would have thought “Communists” would have been smarter. But they were obsessed with Size and Power just as we were. Truly, the question is one of scale – human vs titanic, local vs non local, humanity vs power politics. But the Leaders may care about China if not the Chinese People. That may save them. Our Leaders don’t care about either America or the American People.
    In contrast, Iceland cares about its people. Thus they were able to affect peaceful change. Imagine what would happen if Americans attacked the Banks – they’d be beaten to a pulp and go to prision for years.

  110. azgog March 4, 2013 at 2:08 pm #

    WalMart is a prime example of the modern American business model: The Refinery. It exists to extract wealth from both the proletariat and the Government and concentrate it into the hands of the 1%. It does not need a high profit margin because it relies on underpaid workers, a monopoly market and subsidization by Government.
    Gold mining is now exploiting ore that contains as little as 1 gram of gold per TON of crushed rock (down from 12 grams/ton as the quality declines). The Corporations that seek to dominate markets work the same way, by scale, not quality. Nor do they care if the money you spend was actually earned or simply provided by the Government in the form of food stamps, welfare, Medicaid or Social Security. As these payments increasingly are funded by debt dollars, their business, like the banks, functions as a conversion machine transforming National Debt directly into private profit. Once thus concentrated that wealth will mostly never be seen again, hidden away in the Cayman Island accounts, out of reach of any taxation and never invested back into the country that made this extraction business model possible.
    This is what makes Corporations the biggest Welfare Queens the world has ever seen. Look at the armament factories turning out planes and tanks we don’t need, just to keep the welfare money coming. Imagine if those factories were converted to producing Tesla-like cars and high speed rail equipment instead. Imagine if they were employee-owned, with the profits shared and taxed rather than shipped off to Richistan, never to be seen again. Then we would have the basis for an economy that worked and the foundation for an actual middle class. This should be the goal of government, not the subsidies, deregulation and special pleading of the 1%.

  111. Carol Newquist March 4, 2013 at 2:24 pm #

    Oh and btw, how many Americans died in WW2?
    ==========
    Or the better question, how many Russians died, both civilian and combat? The following article found at the Eisenhower Institute at Gettysburg College is the most balanced I have ever seen on this subject.
    http://www.eisenhowerinstitute.org/about/living_history/wwii_soviet_experience.dot

    Americans have little conception of the Soviet Union’s experience in World War II. No cities in the United States were besieged, not a single bomb was dropped by an enemy airplane on any of our 48 states, no part of our population was enslaved, starved or murdered, and not one village, town or city was completely destroyed or even heard a shot fired in anger.
    About the only way we can begin to understand is through imagination. The distance between Moscow and Berlin is about the same as that separating New York City and Atlanta. Imagine twenty million people being violently killed between those two American cities in four years. The Eastern Front in the war wound like a serpent from Sevastopol on the Black Sea to Leningrad on the Baltic. Including the twists, bulges and turns of the line of battle at the height of German penetration, November 1942, the line would have stretched from Baltimore to Cheyenne, Wyoming. In place of Leningrad, can you fathom Chicago under bitter siege and constant shelling for 900 days? Is it possible for us to mentally picture thousands of dead bodies lying on the frozen streets between Lake Shore Drive and Evanston? Could we endure seeing a million people die, mostly from starvation, during the Chicago siege or begin to fathom our own citizens engaging in cannibalism for profit? At the same time of the Chicago siege think of Cincinnati becoming a battleground such as Stalingrad where not a single structure was left habitable and several hundred thousand soldiers killed each other in the process of leveling the city. Mentally switch names such as Smolensk, Karkov, Minsk, Kiev and Rostov for American cities and picture them destroyed and silenced. If such images are possible for us to even conceive, we can begin to understand why Americans refer to the conflict as World War Two, but the Russians universally refer to it as the Great Patriotic War.

  112. lsjogren March 4, 2013 at 2:30 pm #

    I would argue that the legitimate objection to Wal Mart is the unsustainability of its business model.
    In my opinion old line retailing is also unsustainable. Its only virtues over Wal Mart are aesthetic, not economic.
    In other words, in my opinion old-line retailing has no attributes that make it any more economically sustainable than Walmartonomics.
    This underscores the fact that James Kunstler’s social criticism falls into two distinct categories that often become blurred: Sustainability and aesthetics.
    His criticism of current economic structures is strongly defensible on sustainability grounds, but the alternatives he advocates primarily address only the aesthetic shortcomings of the status quo, not the sustainability problems.
    Not that it is hard to object to that, since there appear to be no solutions to the non-sustainability of human society at the present time.

  113. Janos Skorenzy March 4, 2013 at 2:32 pm #

    Before Chicago was officialy declared a danger zone, I was here warning you. And with my warnings you are still ahead of the game since you know the Race of the people responsible for the carnage. I hope you are well and are planning an escape.
    Here’s a fun article. There’s a new form of White Slavery that focuses on Young White Woman. It’s called interneships. The victims work 60 and 70 hours a week for very little money. Towards the end of the article, one young woman tells how she was called to her boss’s huge apartment one night – to pick pot which the boss sold as a cash crop. She worked far into the night but still had to be at work the next morning. The boss left a brownie on her desk.
    And for this Women gave up marriage and family! Feminism is and always was a play for suckers.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/fashion/for-20-somethings-ambition-at-a-cost.html?src=me&ref=general&_r=0

  114. lsjogren March 4, 2013 at 2:33 pm #

    “Look at the armament factories turning out planes and tanks we don’t need, just to keep the welfare money coming. Imagine if those factories were converted to producing Tesla-like cars and high speed rail equipment instead.”
    Then they would be producing products of similar uselessness to those they are producing now.

  115. lsjogren March 4, 2013 at 2:36 pm #

    I must say, there a lot of really confused people of both the left and right that post here.

  116. lucky 13 March 4, 2013 at 2:36 pm #

    I wade thru todays comments and wonder about
    the posters here, and about JHK.
    Walmart was not created by the repubs.
    The Clintons have a long history with Walmart and
    Tyson foods.
    Today? Obongo appointed some Walmart bigwig to a ‘plum job’.
    AND IT WAS BILL CLINTON WHO GAVE CHINA
    ‘MOST FAVORED NATION STATUS’ and SIGNED NAFTA.

  117. Janos Skorenzy March 4, 2013 at 2:39 pm #

    Why is that a better question? Are you Russian?
    Imagine if we had attacked Russia from Siberia as the Germans attacked in the West. We could have met in Moscow. Imagine the Joy of the whole World at the crushing of Communism! Instead Eisenhower turned over Russian disidents who had been fighting with the Allies to Stalin at his request. For many this meant automatic death or at least a long term in the Gulag System. And we claim the moral high ground?
    Of course both we and the Germans would have had to have been better men for this have been done. The Germans would have had to renounce their designs on Slavic Lands. In many places they had been recieved as Liberators – and then the locals felt their contempt and turned against them.

  118. 79iron March 4, 2013 at 2:40 pm #

    Stick em, stick em, cram it down their throats, cram it down nature’s throat, force growth, build the big boxes like crazy, do it man, stick it, stick it to them, cram growth down society’s throat, cram it to them, forced growth, build, nuke, be crazy, do it all, build trillions of things waste like crazy, pollute, punish nature, stick em.
    I am so sick and tired of this Nature protection, environment protection, green economy, what a boatload of crap, what copy cats everyone is, oh, you are all “so good”, what crap, I hate their guts, they think they are all so good with this nature loving crap: why isn’t there an anti green movement sticking it to them and everyone else ? we want global devastation and warming, we hate nature, we wan to punish nature, and all these fairy good nature lovers, enough, I am sick and tired.
    spark plug

  119. 79iron March 4, 2013 at 2:41 pm #

    Stick em, stick em, cram it down their throats, cram it down nature’s throat, force growth, build the big boxes like crazy, do it man, stick it, stick it to them, cram growth down society’s throat, cram it to them, forced growth, build, nuke, be crazy, do it all, build trillions of things waste like crazy, pollute, punish nature, stick em.
    I am so sick and tired of this Nature protection, environment protection, green economy, what a boatload of crap, what copy cats everyone is, oh, you are all “so good”, what crap, I hate their guts, they think they are all so good with this nature loving crap: why isn’t there an anti green movement sticking it to them and everyone else ? we want global devastation and warming, we hate nature, we wan to punish nature, and all these fairy good nature lovers, enough, I am sick and tired.
    spark plug

  120. 79iron March 4, 2013 at 2:42 pm #

    From:
    http://kunstler.com/blog/2013/02/scale-implosion.html
    Nature Loving Fundamentalists
    JHK and his followers are still fighting off technologies introduced in the early 1900s like mechanized farming and cars and such, they want to go backwards, they want to turn the clock backwards and all, they are essentially conservative – reactionary – right wing fundamentalists of a religious type wanting to punish “pleasure” more than anything else.
    1) Car technology advanced hugely in the last 100 years, don’t play this down, and it continues to advance greatly: what we have though is a naturally diminishing returns in technological research, each new advance costs more, is harder to obtain, is smaller and so forth, as an example look at boeings dreamliner jet, 10 % more efficient but costly and with battery problems and such, so each advance is harder and is slower and such) and economies of scale concentrate the technology in merged corporations and such, as for example there are only a handful of companies that have the cash to build a modern IC factory being that it costs billions (Intel, IBM, Taiwan Corporation and such) ;
    2) JHK’s ideology, the hippie – nature loving ideology, the “against plastic” movements, against consumerism movement is essentially a reactionary, right wing, conservative – backwards looking movement wanting mankind to go back to the stone ages, they want us all to become farmers again and poor and want to reverse all of the technological gains achieved and such; the basis of this ideology is some kinds of remnants of religious fundamentalism wanting to punish pleasure, wanting to punish gains, wanting to keep man primitive and fearful of god (or nature in this case) not wanting to go forward, a kind of guilt complex against all the creature comforts and elimination of hard work that technology has provided us and all; pleasure must be punished, life must be hard, you have to work the land with your bare hands, you are not allowed to be idle and enjoy TV or computers, you must work hard, you must remain in your little local community and shop at the small crappy mom and pop shop that offers nothing but high prices, big box stores are evil since they bring the world together by furnishing goods from all over the world and also by lifting millions of poor people in poorer countries from their poverty and into the middle classes and such; hence JHK’s ideology and his followers are envious of these gains and these new pleasures achieved and furnished by huge economies of scale and the huge networks and the corresponding wealth a Technological Economy provides and such, they cannot stand this and they want to punish all and bring them all back to a harsh past where the local boss is king and everyone else is a slave and such;
    3) Energy isn’t running out (will never run out even though the Nature Loving Fundamentalists would love this to happen so as to punish all us sinners for enjoying the fruits of a Technological Economy watching TV and being idle and eating potato chips and such, all things that must be punished, nature will punish you for these sins (these pleasures, and pleasure must be punished since we must be in eternal pain and such, and see how close all this environmental “protecting” crap is related and tied into hate religions) and such), oil is just one fuel now being surpassed by the use of carbon which is abundant and such: there is a never ending stream of new energies being put online, solar, wind, nuclear, methane, natural gas, biodiesel, ethanol, etc. (gas that is now so abundant and cheap you wouldn’t believe it, we have a glut of energy, of gas and such) : this peak oil myth is false, will never happen and can be overcome in untold number of ways like electric cars, more trains and buses, skyscrapers, working remotely from home without the need to commute and such.
    What instead we really need is to keep on going forward, to improve the lives of all and this is achieved by doing the exact opposite of what all the Nature Loving, Peak Oil Hoping Nature Fundamentalists Chant: and that is we need way more consumption and production, we need super consumption and a never ending stream of progressive projects, rockets to mars, high speed trains and so forth, a never ending stream of ever more consumption of all, this will lift all of the world out of poverty instead of plunging even the rich world into the stone ages again with all of this anti consumerism and anti car stance and such. We need way more nuclear energy, the cleanest and most advanced energy there is, but the nature lovers brainwashed everyone that nuclear is the devil, we need way more consumption but especially, since the focus should be on consumption and increasing production and wealth and new projects and building and going forwards and not on the stone age ideas of “Hard Work” and “you have to deserve it”, then a free salary should be given to all worldwide and cheap rents to all and so forth.
    Anyways, Moore’s law is almost finished, I guess that in 5 or 6 years we will reach the limits of integration of circuits, maybe 10 to 20 billion transistors, maybe PCs will be 10 times faster by then, so agreed, not much of an advance is possible anymore and such. On the other hand, it is incredible that a standard and old and fundamental technology like housing – homes should cost so much, and be so hard to obtain and such, we should have been light years ahead of still having to fight over homes, they should cost very little by now, it is a well known technology and such: but the reason why they always cost so much is because it is a Power Struggle, a fight between who has the cash and the property and how much they can squeeze out of who needs it and such, a basic good kept away from the needy to make a gain, just like the health care mafia and such.
    GURU
    nameta9
    Philosopher
    Posts: 1741
    Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

  121. Janos Skorenzy March 4, 2013 at 2:43 pm #

    Yes these terms confuse far more than they enlighten. We should think in terms of Nationalist vs Internationalist. Both Parties are controled by Internationalists and that’s the problem. The Republican Party will self destruct before it allows itself to be the Party of Americans. The Tea Party doesn’t see that and thus they are irrelevant. Their energy just supports the Capitalists who are in bed with the Socialists who are in bed with the Communists who are in bed with the Anarchists

  122. lucky 13 March 4, 2013 at 2:44 pm #

    Thanks Billy!
    i’ll raise you 10:
    Secretary of State John Kerry pledged $60M in aid to the Free Syrian Army. This brings the US government’s commitment to about $110M, not counting its ongoing program to train anti-Assad fighters.
    Kerry also praised US diplomats’ hard work in securing the “democratic institutions” of Kyrzakhstan, a country he found out doesn’t exist.
    http://takimag.com/article/portrait_of_the_week_march_4_takimag/print#ixzz2MY4jyOoB
    .
    .
    .

  123. lsjogren March 4, 2013 at 2:55 pm #

    iron, the reason houses haven’t become dirt cheap in the technological revolution is that there is no Moore’s Law for housing.
    As an interesting example, at age 59 I just bought my first house. It was built in 1956. The lifestyle you could have living in this house in the 1950s was virtually as good as the lifestyle you could have living in a comparable house built today. There have been no revolutionary breakthroughs in home construction in the last 60 years. My house is nearly as modern as one built today. (with a few minor exceptions- e.g. steel pipes that lose their flow over the years due to scale formation, and wall outlets with two holes instead of three)
    Automobiles haven’t advanced that much in the last 100 years either. We have made incremental improvements in efficiency over time which have allowed us to stretch the fossil fuel era a little longer.
    But the big problem we face is that there is no Moore’s Law for physical infrastructure like there is for information technology.

  124. azgog March 4, 2013 at 2:57 pm #

    Well to me a car that can run on free sunshine (Google Superchargers) and an efficient, enjoyable, oil-independent train service are quite a bit more useful than a zillion dollar fighter jet that we don’t need, sucks up oceans of oil and doesn’t work anyway, just to profit the already rich. But that’s just me.

  125. driften March 4, 2013 at 3:20 pm #

    {“North is a modern day puritan,…”
    What could be bad about that. Purity is good. Seems everybody wants purity in their food, drugs, air, etc.}
    Puritans = pure. Wow, you are truly lost.

  126. mistified March 4, 2013 at 3:28 pm #

    “As Detroit was pimped and carved by GM , Ford, and Chrysler…”
    Au contrair little Stevie. The manufacturers provided a nice standard of living for much of Detroit for decades. And with only one adult in the family working, no less.
    And then the thug unions invaded the manufacturers and the Democratic Party. And the symbiosis of union and government thuggery picked the automobile industry and the city of Detroit clean. Almost to their very skeletor selves.
    But that wasn’t good enough. So Sammy swoops in and literally steals General Motors, right out from under the bondholders, thus endearing what is left of the pathetic union membership, to the Obama Kleptocracy . And sells Chrysler to the Italians, who are now moving the production of the Jeep to China.
    Get on your knees Stevie, and pray, that someday, once again, GM, Ford and Chrysler will be able to “pimp” Detroit like they did in days of old.

  127. Kyooshtik March 4, 2013 at 3:30 pm #

    You should see how their thumbs feverishly plod against their i-thingies
    Feverishly and plod don’t work together at all (see dictionary). How about “their thumbs feverishly tap their i-thingies like cad driven high-speed robots placing circuits on substrates.” No? Too busy?
    the males hate their mothers, who usually stomped and wasted the father, and the young women hate their absent fathers.
    Far more frequently I see women who hate their mothers.

  128. cogdis March 4, 2013 at 3:41 pm #

    Gary who?

  129. mistified March 4, 2013 at 3:53 pm #

    Shut the fuck up! (And such.) Fucking idiot.

  130. mistified March 4, 2013 at 3:59 pm #

    “There have been no revolutionary breakthroughs in home construction in the last 60 years.”
    What a troglodyte. Insulation, window construction/materials, etc. have made homes immensely more energy efficient. You can even turn you temp down / up when you leave for work and send it an email from work to warm/cool before you return home.
    Furnaces / hot water heaters are much more efficient as are dishwashers. Get a clue doofus.

  131. mistified March 4, 2013 at 4:13 pm #

    “How about “their thumbs feverishly tap their i-thingies…”
    How about you cease being a complete douche nozzle? Hmmmm?

  132. Carol Newquist March 4, 2013 at 4:24 pm #

    Your potty mouth is burning my ears. Are you sure you’re getting enough iodine in your diet? If not, may I suggest the roasted seaweed snacks.

  133. Janos Skorenzy March 4, 2013 at 4:33 pm #

    If Henry Ford had treated his workers right, then he wouldn’t have had to bring in Black scabs to break the strike. And then Whites wouldn’t have been ethnically cleansed from the motor city.
    It’s not half time in Detroit now – it’s game over, an African Third World City.
    A plane crashed in Lagos last year. It took riot police to break thru the crowd to allow firemen and rescue personel to do their job. The mob was busy looting the plane and bodies. Contrast this with the behavior of South and Southeast Asians during the Tsunami. Of the thousands of White European and American tourists who were caught up in that, there is scarcely one story of mistreatment to be heard. Or mistreatment of native victims either. The whole quality of the people is different and superior…

  134. mistified March 4, 2013 at 4:34 pm #

    “Your potty mouth is burning my ears.”
    Good, puke-lips. How much more do you need until your burning ears cause your entire head to enflame? Just wondering.

  135. dale March 4, 2013 at 4:37 pm #

    Ya “rip” what ya sow Jimmy Boy. You pandered to these “Corn Pone” Nazi with your vaguely racist screed “A World Made by Hand”, now they’re yours.
    You should remember what Churchill said, “The German’s (Nazis), they’re either at your throat, or at your feet.” I’d lock my doors if I were you, those knuckleheads are capable of anything, and there are plenty enough of them in the good ole’ USA to run Auschwitz a 100 times over.

  136. Homple March 4, 2013 at 4:39 pm #

    I live in a town whose merchants and citizens have successfully fended off the advances of the big box stores for years.
    The result is that local prices for necessary stuff are so high and useful things are so unavailable that it’s worth driving 40 miles one way to the regional box store complex to shop.

  137. Kyooshtik March 4, 2013 at 4:39 pm #

    Orionoir,
    Concerning the disparaging comment left by Julian at the end of last week’s thread… some insight can be gained on this character from two recent posts:
    1. Julian writing about himself on 2/27/13 at 4:04 PM.
    2. A link provided by Ozone on 3/3/13 at 8:57 PM

  138. ComradeDystopia March 4, 2013 at 4:53 pm #

    One thing about Walmart, tho, its got some pretty good deals, you have to admit. I once bought a Marlin Model 336, .30/.30, at the local Walmart for $275, brand new! Ammo, batteries, bait, diapers for the little ones, fishing gear of all kinds, beer … pretty much everything you need you can get down at the local Walmart. I know I’m swimming against the tide here. Some people I know wouldn’t be caught dead in the place. Not long ago I needed some cannisters to store gasoline. At the local hardware store they wanted $27; Walmart had them for $6.99. Of course, I don’t claim to be as sophisticated as many others here, for example, I think Eastern Religions are a fraud and a lot of bullshit.
    ==CD

  139. JJF March 4, 2013 at 4:54 pm #

    As Jim says, history is tragic, we fought the real nazis yet Roosevelt put an entire ethnicity in camps and took their property. We freed the slaves but killed hundreds of thousands of them because nobody cared for their welfare once they were free…we cannot stop what we see coming down the pike, we can only brace ourselves for our own collision with history. All great men are monsters, Churchill, Stalin, Roosevelt, Wilson, Bismarck, Lincoln, every one a monster in their own right.

  140. Jimmy Drinkwater March 4, 2013 at 5:07 pm #

    Viewpoints like North espouses are always from the consumer angle, of course, backing folks god given right to buy cheap crap from offshore producers.
    Lost in the discussions is anything about domestic producers who make or manufacture things. A good friend has two manufacturing facilities and cannot get his products into a Wmart supply line. Naturally he has tried, realizing the huge loss by not doing so.
    As he has explained to me the way it works, to be a Wmart supplier, a manufacturer does not make something and calculate their best competitive price to charge for it, Wmart dictates what they will pay for any particular item and demands they meet that number. It’s then up to the manufacturer to make it cheaper if they are to realize any profit. For my friend that ends up being impossible, at least as long as he has a US zip code.

  141. JJF March 4, 2013 at 5:17 pm #

    What I won’t miss when society goes to hell is the hippy/yuppy dichotomy we’ve been stuck with since the boomers took over, your constant quibbling with each other over every little damn thing, does anyone really wonder why the “me” generation can’t get their shit together? Really? All the stupid political correctness? The constant drone of pundits? Who will replace assholes like Sean Hannity? Pompous windbags like Michael Moore and Limbaugh? Power hungry fucks like Bush, Cheney, Clinton and Gore? Who will replace the “Reverands” Jackson and Sharpton? No One! Because generation X doesn’t give a shit and the millennials are sooo past that bullshit. It will be a new world without the old grudges and hates, a poorer world maybe, but surely a quieter one!!

  142. Jimmy Drinkwater March 4, 2013 at 5:21 pm #

    Kudos to your comments from a boomer. It’s never an easy arrangement despising most of what one’s own generation represents.

  143. Scott Stinson March 4, 2013 at 5:33 pm #

    The only thing that Gary North was right about was that Jim Kunstler’s predictions haven’t all come true. I would say that having a huge numbers of Americans going back to agriculture and small town economies might not happen until we REALLY run out of oil.
    Nonetheless, Gary North’s personal attacks on Jim Kunstler and bellicose defense of Walmart is taking it a little far. Gary North conveniently forgot why towns have zoning commissions in the first place; simply because everyone wants the freedom to drive cars and shop at Walmart, but have the freeways and Walmarts built in someone else’s backyard. I doubt many right wingers would want their backyards facing a multilane freeway or an oil refinery.

  144. Ryan Langemeyer March 4, 2013 at 5:37 pm #

    I haven’t read all of the comments above, but this announcement by the Obama Regime almost made me choke on my coffee:
    http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/03/17170896-obama-taps-walmart-foundation-head-as-budget-chief?lite
    The Onion cannot make up stuff that is as bizarre as real life in Amerika.

  145. Carol Newquist March 4, 2013 at 5:54 pm #

    Good, puke-lips.
    ===========
    Why the hyphen? You didn’t use one when you called Kyooshtik a douche nozzle, yet you use one here. Douche nozzle is an interesting term. I’ve heard, and used, douche bag, but douche nozzle is a new one. Is the idea the nozzle is worse because it’s the part that penetrates into the infected area, whereas the bag remains outside the diseased cavity? Please elaborate.

  146. Janos Skorenzy March 4, 2013 at 6:05 pm #

    The cognitive dissonance you suffer from must be extreme I know. I mean after all America did for the Jews here, Europe and Israel, now they turn around and try to disarm us. You can’t go back and “unknow” what has happened. You have to try and figure it out – or else continue to suffer. Your world view is incorrect. Start there.

  147. Janos Skorenzy March 4, 2013 at 6:11 pm #

    You are correct: you are not as sophisticated as we are. But that doesn’t mean you have to be a dupe and a toady of those that hate you. Check this out: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/
    Can your Marlin or Perkins match this?

  148. Janos Skorenzy March 4, 2013 at 6:17 pm #

    Why? You knew that his campaign was funded by the likes of Goldman Sachs and George Soros, right? This Communist Revolution is being funded by the Capitalists just like the last one was. What is your issue? Capitalists don’t believe in Capitalism. Once they’re on top, they don’t want to compete, they want to control and/or destroy their would be competetitors. Please discriminate between Capitalism as an economic system and Capitalism as a system of Political Power. As the Alchemists say, before two things can be joined, they must be carefully separated.

  149. Kyooshtik March 4, 2013 at 6:17 pm #

    Vlad,
    You’ve probably had bigger fish to fry but it HAS been 5 days since the unveiling of the Rosa Parks statue. If that’s not worthy of a rant from you, what is?

  150. bproman March 4, 2013 at 6:17 pm #

    Beware the aisles of walmart.

  151. Kyooshtik March 4, 2013 at 6:23 pm #

    Beware the aisles of walmart.
    ============
    Nice play on words BP, did you make it up?

  152. ComradeDystopia March 4, 2013 at 6:31 pm #

    Vlad, sometimes I don’t get what your driving at. Just too abstruse for me.
    = ComradeD

  153. lucky 13 March 4, 2013 at 6:39 pm #

    I think Eastern Religions are a fraud and a lot of bullshit.
    What religions are not eastern?
    Christianity is from the middle East, Hinduism and its many off shoots are from the Indian Sub continent.
    [Sufism, Sikhism, Jainism, Buddhism].

  154. lucky 13 March 4, 2013 at 6:40 pm #

    3000 tanks [almost]. To bulldoze the crowds?

  155. KaraokeVox March 4, 2013 at 6:50 pm #

    Walmart and all box stores illiminate competition in pricing by contracting space to brand name producers. They will not carry a brand if doesnt agree to walmarts price point. They nevertake into account the quality of the brand deserving a particular price. We are seeing store brands that are are cheaper offbrand because they are lower quality, not worthy of a brand name. Quality of life is being sacrifice for quantity. The majority of people who shop and work there are rubes. There is noone at box stores who can recommend, service any products they sell. They bank on a disposable system much like their plastc shopping bag. This cheap marketing icon, shopping bag, is polluting the environment and quickly on its way out thru citywide ordinance.

  156. adequatio March 4, 2013 at 6:54 pm #

    I think Eastern Religions are a fraud and a lot of bullshit. –CD
    What religions are not eastern? –Lucky13
    ===========
    Perhaps that was his point: all religions are bullshit.

  157. ComradeDystopia March 4, 2013 at 6:54 pm #

    You got me there, Lucky13.

  158. dale March 4, 2013 at 7:02 pm #

    I doubt many right wingers would want their backyards facing a multilane freeway or an oil refinery.
    ————————-
    Based on what I’ve seen, I have to doubt most RWers would have the awareness to even notice if their backyard faced a multi-lane freeway or an oil refinery.

  159. Janos Skorenzy March 4, 2013 at 7:30 pm #

    Why? If it bothers you, why don’t you do it? She seems to have been a perfectly nice little Brown Communist Woman. And so what if the whole House and Senate did everything but get down on all fours and wag their imaginary tails?
    The Fort has been betrayed. With Leaders like this, we can only pray for a quick descent into Ice Age conditions.

  160. Janos Skorenzy March 4, 2013 at 7:31 pm #

    Now you take refuge in false modesty. You are a crooked fellow.

  161. Janos Skorenzy March 4, 2013 at 7:37 pm #

    This Comrade follows an American Religion of Guns, Football, and perhaps Jesus. But his Jesus has a crew cut and wears a Letterman Jacket.

  162. jdfarmer March 4, 2013 at 7:40 pm #

    HAvent posted in a long while… but your comment makes me want to share this.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50142079n

  163. Julian C. Lee March 4, 2013 at 7:41 pm #

    “How about “their thumbs feverishly tap their i-thingies…
    Mine was better. Increasing continence will help you with creativity.
    …like cad driven high-speed robots placing circuits on substrates.”
    I had no need to sound like a male negro English Lady trying to sound eryoodite enuf for Kunstlerfuck Nation.

  164. miner_tom March 4, 2013 at 7:45 pm #

    Well, all that I have to say is “this is Gary North”. He has been saying a lot of the same things for something like 30 years as far as I am aware. Around 85′ or so one of my managers claimed North was some kind of a sage that spoke “the real truth” because everything else was part of the liberal media conspiracy. Well, I read his newsletter for about 6 months and realized it was all just nonsense. For example, he was positive that the Soviet Union would survive and that it was the west that would collapse, as North is a big anti-communist. Sorry Gary, you were off really big time on that one.

  165. notaneoliberal March 4, 2013 at 7:57 pm #

    Unions swooped in? Hardly. Try Ronnie Rayguns and neoliberalism. It was “free trade” that destroyed US manufacturing, Pure and simple. Take a look at the history of tariffs and see how ending a practice that put the US on top for over 100 years, brought it dowwn in about 30. The highest standard of living for the working class, and the least wealth disparity, occurred when unions were at there stongest.

  166. Carol Newquist March 4, 2013 at 7:58 pm #

    he was positive that the Soviet Union would survive and that it was the west that would collapse, as North is a big anti-communist.
    ============
    Wow, another example of what home schooling can do to one’s mind. We have already seen what it’s done to geriatric weasel’s mind and body. I mean, this guy (if you could call IT that) Julian shouldn’t be allowed within ten miles of any schools, daycares or playgrounds. He’s that dangerous, imo. A monster. Just look at him. If he has children, they should be taken away for their own safety.

  167. Carol Newquist March 4, 2013 at 8:04 pm #

    Mistified gets confused easily, plus, there’s the complications he’s experiencing with his transvaginal mesh. That would be enough to make anyone disoriented and grouchy.

  168. JJF March 4, 2013 at 8:10 pm #

    I wish we could bypass all the pain and stupidity about to be unleashed on our sad country but like a Greek tragedy this will all have to play out, with the knowledge of the participants that it can be avoided. We all see this coming, but to no avail. How sad…I’m not a boomer, but I have 40 years of experience with boomers and like most of my generation i can only shake my head and wonder one thing, will the re-write of boomer history be as good this time as the white washed history of the early 20th century progressives was…can’t wait to see what fantastic fictions they come up with!

  169. notaneoliberal March 4, 2013 at 8:28 pm #

    “Mistified gets confused easily, plus, there’s the complications he’s experiencing with his transvaginal mesh. That would be enough to make anyone disoriented and grouchy.”
    Good one. The screen name “Mistified” does raise the question; Why would anyone take this person seriously?

  170. myrtlemay March 4, 2013 at 8:28 pm #

    I don’t understand how you can say that Walmart is easy and convenient. I find it neither. Parking is an absolute headache. I constantly have to watch for someone backing into me or hitting me as I roll my cart out into the parking lot. The size of the place is daunting. When I go with my daughter (these last ten years that’s the only time I go) we carry our cell phones in case we (I) get lost. By the time I’m finished shopping, I need to lie down for about three hours. And don’t even ask about the check out lines! I watch their electronic register displays and caught a cashier TWICE charging me duplicate for just the one item. BARGAIN? Ya gotta be kidding me! You can have ’em. I try to shop organic and local. There’s a new Deep Roots Market opening up around the corner from me. If anyone knows something about that outfit, please let me know!

  171. Carol Newquist March 4, 2013 at 8:29 pm #

    can’t wait to see what fantastic fictions they come up with!
    ===========
    In one of the possible worlds made by hand to come, I can envision a disheveled and emaciated near death survivor reflexively scratching that rewrite with a jagged stone in the parched sediment of a dried river bed or lake in the middle of a new desert with no name.
    Only one comma. I’m patting my back.

  172. lucky 13 March 4, 2013 at 8:30 pm #

    He has what I find as contradictory beliefs or heros
    [Buddha and Holocaust denial].
    He knows so much about history.
    He [hates?] women?
    He knows who UG Krishnamurti is!
    Adi Da was a despotic cult leader, yet JS has
    posted about him in an admiring way.
    [see AdiDa Archives for more info]

  173. lucky 13 March 4, 2013 at 8:34 pm #

    And Immigration [legal or not] but a trickle.

  174. SteveFtGreene March 4, 2013 at 8:34 pm #

    I think I understand pretty well what Mr. Kunstler is talking about and I mostly agree with him. So I will not repeat back to him what he’s written.
    I would guess the majority of Americans don’t think that there is anything basically wrong with the way we live. The difficulty is much greater than convincing the far-right that changes are necessary.
    Also, many thanks for starting up the podcast again.

  175. Carol Newquist March 4, 2013 at 8:36 pm #

    An excellent market. It’s owned by the Kinte family. The name of the establishment was a toss up between what you see now and Chicken George’s. I think the latter would have been a better pick.

  176. lucky 13 March 4, 2013 at 8:42 pm #

    Carol, that is yr best comment so far.
    Go Girl!

  177. ComradeDystopia March 4, 2013 at 8:52 pm #

    Hey Lucky13, that post awhile back you asked about was when I went to Meriden, CT looking for what was left of the Parker Shotgun Company, 1866-1937. Parker was the best shotgun ever made; it was exquisite. Meriden was also where the nickel silver plate industry began and eventually employed thousands, including the original and legendary Yankee Peddlers, who ventured across the country selling that stuff. I was describing what the place looks like now, which isn’t too good.
    Are you in Southern Cal., or South Dakota? Just curious.
    –CD

  178. linguinee March 4, 2013 at 9:05 pm #

    What’s so demoralizing about Mr. North’s, and at times Mr. Kunstler’s, commentaries is their explicit political orientations–left, right, centrist, etc.
    Really, who cares? Apparently everyone. Too bad; when public discourse is governed by transient politics and ideologies true and enduring resolutions are the first casualties.

  179. dale March 4, 2013 at 9:09 pm #

    I don’t understand how you can say that Walmart is easy and convenient. I find it neither.
    ——————————
    Surgical strike….The only way I will get close to “the maaalllll” Truth is I haven’t bought much there in recent years. I can even buy deodorant cheaper from Amazon, and I’d happily pay a couple bucks more anyway, not to have to drive out to a place like Macy’s.
    Food? Why would anyone buy the crap they sell at Wal-Fart? I’ve heard their having troubles with their suppliers lately, can’t keep the shelves full. Gee….too bad.

  180. Julian C. Lee March 4, 2013 at 9:10 pm #

    Why does it place Americans in scare quotes.
    She even goes so far as to imply that “Americans” have no business complaining,
    It believes their’s no such thing as America or Americans? I wonder why id didn’t put Russians in scare quotes too.
    …you can’t help but draw the conclusion that this is collective, mass insanity. But isn’t civilization just that?
    Wow heavy.

  181. James19 March 4, 2013 at 9:16 pm #

    Gary North is hateful old coot, but there was virtually nothing good about the old “mom and pop” retail joints. Good riddance, say I!
    The small service companies are a much different story, but they are still around.

  182. Beantownbill March 4, 2013 at 9:33 pm #

    As I write this from sunny Florida, I can’t help being amazed by how much the world I grew up in has changed. I decided to buy a gift for my daughter back home in Boston, some clothes.
    Of course, how do you buy clothes for someone not there? We picked out some stuff we thought she would like, took pictures of them with my phone and texted her with the pictures attached. I couldn’t imagine being able to do this when I was young. Is this a bad thing? Don’t think so.
    To continue this thread – and I know I’ll be ridiculed for this – I believe that one of our very best thinkers on this blog is 79iron. Yeah, I know he gets off-the-wall, is strangely over-wordy with his grammar, but once I get past that, his basic ideas make a lot of sense. Try to get by the weirdness and you’ll see, too.
    If our technological advance continues, and that’s a big if, then we are going to have to create a new culture based upon a world where most people don’t have to work.
    Procon, I visited Savannah yesterday, as I was never there before. I found it decayed but charming, with the touristy downtown reminding me of downtown Boston. Sorry I didn’t have the time to say hello to you, but I’ll be driving back through Georgia on the way home from Orlando in a few weeks. Who knows, maybe we’ll meet.

  183. Julian C. Lee March 4, 2013 at 9:33 pm #

    I prefer private business chains any day of the week. For one thing, they provide a lot more variety. For another, it’s good for human beings. For another, an owner-on-site cares a lot more about the state of his business than employees of a distant chain owner.

  184. ComradeDystopia March 4, 2013 at 9:45 pm #

    With all due respect, BTBill, I think you’re wrong about 79iron. In fact I think 79iron is old6699 using a different handle. But its the same crazy manifesto. Can you really understand what he’s saying? No, I’m afraid the guys a nut, a crank; he’s like the unemployed lunatic with a Phd who hangs around the local bar, spinning abstruse theories nobody can figure out.
    Did you see any college or spring training baseball down there?
    ==CD

  185. Beantownbill March 4, 2013 at 9:48 pm #

    I’ve been in a Walmarts only twice in my life, once when I accompanied a couple of my friends who wanted to buy something there, and a second time when I was looking for 5-gallon water storage containers, which they didn’t have.
    But I’ve never bought any item there; I never spent a penny in the store. I wouldn’t ever buy food there, either. Like most enterprises, the Waltons’ stores are not essential.

  186. Beantownbill March 4, 2013 at 9:56 pm #

    I have tickets for the Sox’s spring training game wIth Minnesota this Friday. Behind the plate, supposedly.

  187. notaneoliberal March 4, 2013 at 10:08 pm #

    Seems you answered the question as to what’s wrong with 79 your self. Yes, it’s a big if. Name a technology that doesn’t require energy. The trend toward mechanization is due to freeze up as energy declines. That’s sorta the whole gist of this blog.

  188. ecominded March 4, 2013 at 10:27 pm #

    You go James. Think some far-right wing nuts are getting scared. Truth is, as you have stated, return to OR re-creation of localized economies is a growing U.S. community idea / palpable energy. I think there will be a paradigm shift soon. Many of us are not against fair capitalism, balanced global economy. What people are suffering from is the imbalance of our hollowed-out U.S. economy and middle class. We are against the global sell off of the U.S. to benefit only the 1% of the 1% wealthy, claiming to be promoting freedom and democracy, in the shadow of pure selfish greed.
    Maybe I am a fool, but I believe Keneysian economics more closely brings the pendulum to economic balance.
    I believe you and people like Neva Goodwin and even Jared Diamond have a vision for a better society, and possibly world. I know Milton Freidman had some potential ideas on creating opportunities, but his ideology fell very short on humanity and interconnected balance.

  189. Gus44 March 4, 2013 at 10:40 pm #

    Love reading your posts, James, and the comments are often interesting until the Jew hating, racist scum like Otto Skorzeny and Vlad show up.

  190. adequatio March 4, 2013 at 11:05 pm #

    Truth is, as you have stated, return to OR re-creation of localized economies is a growing U.S. community idea / palpable energy. I think there will be a paradigm shift soon.
    The move toward “localized economies” may seem palpable, but according to recent census data from all 51 metro areas with a million or more people, cities as a whole grew by 1.1% from 2010 to 2011, while suburbs increased 0.9%.
    There is no move toward areas where people can engage in sustainable agricultural activity. The movement is toward the cities and the suburbs.

  191. M2inSF March 4, 2013 at 11:38 pm #

    Dearest Jim K. I simply love your posts where you deal with current inanities or rebuttals to stupidity. The posts where you aptly point out, time and time again, that we are all going to hell in a hand basket are not as interesting as these where you smack down stupidity and inanity. At least not to me. Why not? I don’t think anyone, including you are very good at predicting the future. Humans seem largely bad at it. I often wonder what your take is on the shenanigans of both POTUS and congress. And am left wanting to know. I think I get your stance on where we’re going and you do a fine job of re-casting that stance. For goodness sake your writing is worth the read. For what my opinion is worth, please more of this kind of dress down, analysis for us to consume. Anyone else with me? I assume of course you give a rat’s ass about my opinion. But thought I would log it nevertheless. For what it’s worth. By the way, no matter, thanks for your insights and brash honesty about what you see.

  192. A Change in the Weather March 4, 2013 at 11:45 pm #

    Gary North is exactly the kind of right-wing Dominionist who becomes President in my novel, A Change in the Weather.

  193. Julian C. Lee March 4, 2013 at 11:51 pm #

    I never noticed Vlad speak hatefully about Jews. To you some old Rolling Stone talk, I think you’re hyping things.

  194. ecominded March 5, 2013 at 12:02 am #

    Your point is well taken Adequatio. I am aware of the facts you are speaking of. But, I am not talking only of agriculture, although local agriculture must be a part of any society that wants to promote local sustainability.
    All statistics can be misleading and often requires clarification. What part of the demographics that you speak of are moving to the urban centers? Is this simply a result of the expanding population of the U.S.? But regardless of what population is moving to the urban centers, does that change the “thinking” about localizing economies. Urban centers have local economies that value local economic interconnection. Are you totally convinced that the global economy is going to survive in it’s current mode with the energy requirements of transport? The thinking and motivation is what I am attempting to address when I talk about local economies.
    The paradigm shift I speak of could re-introduce interdependence and growth at a local level. Agriculture must be a part of this, and agriculture and trade, even in urban centers, is very possible by maximizing and efficiently using available space and establishing markets.
    Have you actually read any of James Kunstler’s books? He has some very good and progressive ideas. So do some other deep thinkers as I have mentioned. Thanks for the talk.

  195. lucky 13 March 5, 2013 at 12:33 am #

    Ghost cities?
    New cities in Africa, for Chinese millions?

  196. Kyooshtik March 5, 2013 at 12:58 am #

    I’ve been in a Walmarts only twice in my life
    ==========
    No offense Bean but it’s getting late and if I want to fall asleep tonight I MUST clear up this matter concerning the singular, plural and possessive of various big box and large department store names. Believe me, you are not the only one.
    There is Macy’s and there is Bloomindale’s. There is Sears but no Sear, no Sears’ and no Sears’s. There used to be an outfit called Two Guys. But there is no Walmarts or Targets. Nor are there any Walmart’s or Target’s. Walmart and Target are singular and not possessive.
    I used to shoot pool with a guy who started an on-line business which he named Everything Billiard’s. I tried, in vain, to get him to drop the apostrophe. I said “then I assume you don’t mind appearing stupid to your potential customers?”

  197. Kyooshtik March 5, 2013 at 1:04 am #

    I tried, in vain, to get him to drop the apostrophe.
    =========
    The commas in the above sentence are probably unnecessary. Jam?

  198. jerryd March 5, 2013 at 1:30 am #

    JHK Relax as Gary North is a Wing Nut; Back during Y2K He had a tape out that was over the edge… Get out, society is going to crash it’s going all to hell, etc. Do you remember Ronald Reagans statement that all you need to survive a nuclear holocaust “is a door and a shovel”? For those that don’t, you were to dig a hole and put the door over it and shovel the dirt from the hole on top of the door… And in this mini pit you would live out the worst of the nuclear exchange! These words of true wisdom President Reagon got from none other than Gary North in his idiotic book “Fighting Chance: Ten Feet to Survival”.
    Jerry

  199. ruolu9876 March 5, 2013 at 2:35 am #

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  200. 79iron March 5, 2013 at 2:52 am #

    Locked in a Box
    So big box stores are better or worse ? good or bad ? trains are good or bad ? and so forth ? no they are nothing at all, neither or both or anything else since they are just invariant bits in the mind and such. They are just bits in the mind, just a picture, a design, a painting in the mind associated to good or bad, feeling good or bad, to winning or losing, but the bits are all the same, it doesn’t matter what picture you put in the mind, what result, what sequence of events and such, only the connection to that set of bits and what it means, what it feels, who loses and who wins, and the denotations associated to them, the knowledge that some other mind is losing and winning counts, only the hard coded circuits connecting goals, results, wars, and fights and so forth and meanings to feelings create difference, create variations on a substrate that is invariant and meaningless and such. SO anything goes, anything can be better or worse than anything else, it is all irrelevant, meaningless, kill meaning and kill the circuits connecting events, pictures and designs to winning or losing, to good or bad, connect all the circuits and all designs to always winning, to winning no matter what design is in the mind, what set of bits, so you in always, you win, I win forever, no matter what anything will always make me win and such.
    But all these debates, all the knowledge, all the information is just so many little logical blocks in the mind, just so many exercises of logic and language on concepts pretending to be achieving something and such, everyone showing off how they can reason and put toegether words too, words representing fights and goals and tasks and so forth and such, but it is like always being still, like being locked in a box, no matter how much more knowledge information, debates, words, concepts, no matter how many more blocks of texts and debates you throw at “problems” (another correlary of the idea that some bits are better than others and therefore must be changed into something else, no big box and yes to trains means the problems is the big box and the solution trains and such, but these are just bits and paths that you want the configuration of bits to follow and such, but it is jut a design, there is no better or worse and such) nothing changes (or you can invent that everything changes, who cares, lie to yourself, others and to god and the universe who cares, lying is ok, kill truth, kill any truth and such), just so many texts and logical segments, and so forth, and debates and fights and A against B, and replies to replies and so forth forever.
    But it is as if one mind can conceive any blocks of texts and logical segments associated to a society or economy, but in the end the random, chaotic, contrasting forces of a society and economy can never be solved by one mind or any number of minds or any number of logical segments since any logic is not applicable to complex (nay, simple, simply a set of contrasting forces that minds want to group as a coherent entity when it is totally incoherent, not analyzable, not reducible to anything, not connected to any possible logic or an possible number of logical segments or debates no matter what and such) systems, so just give up, or keep on throwing information to problems and logical segments to problems forever and such, nothing will change, it is a mind locked in a box.
    So the greens want to go back to the stone ages and such thinking that that is good, that that will make life better: what idiots, nothing further from the truth, either you have constant economical growth (we need wild growth, crazy growth!), constantly increasing consumerism, production, ever more things ever more of everything or you have poverty, and starvation, there is no alternative, there is no hippy land where you can just play in your little garden worshipping trees and such: either it is up or down, either economies become ever more large, complex, ever more energy consuming ever more bigger, ever more things, bigger and bigger projects, more and more production, trillions of ocean liners and rockets and skyscrapers and trillions of chips and so forth or you go backwards into having nothing at all, like africa, total starvation and wars and crap and such.
    They are still hoping for the woodstock nation to become reality and such, they are still worshipping nature and such (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-to-the-land), they still want to try to live in communes and common property things and such, totally out of time and space, that story failed 40 years ago, now we must produce like crazy, build like crazy, go towards the future, get rid of nature all together, nay punish nature, stick it to nature and the greens, stick em stick em, you win, do it, be a hog, show nature what a hog you are, show how to do what you want as you want, don’t be under the thumbs of any morality, just do it, force it, force yourself to what you want, help yourself, don’t let the fairy little greens stop you, just do it.. either you are part of the problem or part of the solution…
    spark plug

  201. 79iron March 5, 2013 at 2:59 am #

    http://instantsingularity1.blogspot.it/
    http://instantsingularity3.blogspot.it/
    ape thug, tobor thug
    8
    88888

  202. 79iron March 5, 2013 at 3:03 am #

    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=181330
    APE THUG
    APE THUG
    APE THUG
    SPARK PLUG
    SPARK PLUG
    SPARK PLUG

  203. 79iron March 5, 2013 at 4:38 am #

    Very Small World
    “The general idea is to stay happy by keeping your world very small, and not asking any deep questions, and maintaining the worldview of one’s immediate “friends”. ”
    Is there a difference between a big world and a small world ? they are just transacting information with another set of random bits made important by what others say are important. They are just interacting through any random set of customs, rituals and behaviors, any at all with any amount of people at all from zero to a million (a million friends on facebook?) and so forth.
    We just convince ourselves that we are talking about about “deep” or general or important or big world ideas and questions, but it is all the same size and importance, it is all equal, there is no big world or little world, no deep or shallow, it is all the same, we simply assign something as deep or shallow or big or small in our mind arbitrarily, just according to customs, rituals, being copy cats (all of this nature loving crap), rituals and behaviors, culture, what others do and think, ways of thinking and doing which can be any at all.
    And anyways, if they were to think and discuss and talk about big issues like the economy or global warming or anything else, would it make any difference ? they would just be putting together a string of symbols and sentences and ideas declaring what is right or wrong, what should be done, what is a problem and a solution but with absolutely zero power to force anything in any direction anyways, totally impotent to do anything no matter what, no matter how much you talk about it since the controlling causes of global warming, the economy, “peak oil” are so many, so abstract, so indirect, so global, so intractable, so debateatable, so controvertial, so unsure and so forth and such (events having no causes, problems having no solutions, non linearities, if there are no solutions to problems, there are no problems in the first place, since there are no causes and effects in the first place, like trying to force “economic growth” which is a process that kicks in automatically under certain very uncertain conditions and forces operating within a very narrow window of forces and possibilities and such) causes having no events, that it would be useless to waste time talking about these problems, studying them imaginig a solution and such especially when it all boils down to power struggles, fights, who is more powerful, who will do whatever they want anyways like china in africa and such.
    And then it just makes you feel superior that you are talking about something important when you talk of super global abstractions and such, but in essence, all of these big and deep issues are puny, worthless and meaningless just like all the puny little things all the kids talk about or the puny phone games like angry birds the kids play and such.
    Does writing on this blog or anyplace on the internet (or anyplace else TV, books, newspapers and such) have any possiblility to change anything anyways ? is it intractable ? (maybe that old block of text I wrote last year had a huge effect somewhere on the history of our civilization but I will never know ?) and in which direction do you want to change things, because I want to change it in the exact opposite direction you want to…
    ape
    8

  204. Carol Newquist March 5, 2013 at 7:03 am #

    The commas in the above sentence are probably unnecessary. Jam?
    ===========
    There is no reason to appeal to an authority that is no authority. The commas you have suggested are unnecessary are a matter of preference. They are not inappropriate. If they bother you, or they bother Jam, as has been mentioned on other threads, stick to the Dick and Jane basal readers.
    I once gave you a shred of credibility. You now have none. Same goes for Jam. As far as I’m concerned, you two are frauds, and your word means nothing.

  205. Carol Newquist March 5, 2013 at 7:18 am #

    Never mind, for the moment, whether the true Florida count will be ascertainable. If judicial action arrests another recount, that will leave critics saying that the rejected recount would have established Gore’s victory. If a recount is done that does less than establish Gore’s putative victory, dissenters will argue that arbitrary, or unreasonable, methods were used, or tolerated, in conducting that final recount.
    =============
    Look at all those commas. The shame of it all. None are “probably unnecessary.” It’s purely preference. But the best part is who wrote this sentence. Any ideas? He’s a favorite of many right-wingers who have set up camp here, no doubt.

  206. 79iron March 5, 2013 at 7:56 am #

    Up or Down
    Either the economy grows, everything increases constantly, more cars sold worldwide, more energy use, more buildings, more everything and we go towards the future with ever larger, huge public private projects creating wealth, creating infrastructure for Man, creating the future like rockets and malls and consumerism, super consumerism, infinite growth, never ending growth, or we will go down, and become poor, dirt poor, sick and in pain and reach the stone ages in a few years if you are lucky.
    There is no alternative: either it is this system of life, this techno-science system using ever more energy and using nature, as nature must be used, must be a tool for our needs, end of story, no more crying over fairy tale Nature ghosts as gods and such, no more imaginary good nature being there punishing us for our sins and such, nature is ours to use and punish and abuse as much as we want, we are the boss, there is no other boss, we are god, end of story, deal with it, give up and abide to the powers that be, to the powers that are stronger than you, that are letting you live, abide to the Man.
    And of course, who cares how much profit the huge private corporations hog up minning the earth, building dams, building airports and high speed trains and highways and weapons, enough with this envy towards the winners and the rich, let them hog up as much profit and cash as possible by building and doing, yes we need trillions of fighter planes and warships and atom bombs and nuclear energy plants and particle accelerators, let the private corporations hog up all the profit they can, who cares, (I don’t gain either way, but at least there will be loads of things built and such) this will trickle down to all in the form of huge number of jobs, wealth, free cash, cheap rents and so forth, so much real estate that it becomes free, it doesn’t matter, technology will make us all super rich, this is the truth, the truth you all hate to hear, you all want to hear how everything is peaked, is dying, is ending, there is no more water, oil, energy, we are all doomed, this doom religion: well it is the exact opposite, we will go forward like crazy whether you like it or not, assholes.
    And growth may be uneven, some countries will go down, others go up, but the end result, the accumulated and serialized result as in effort – work – labor accumulating result and such is that the worldwide economy will and must keep on growing, will keep on growing no matter what, it must, either that or nothing, or a stone age ape society made of little dictators, tyrants, poverty, violence, you name, societies as has been the norm for all of human history except the last 100 to 200 years thanks to the tehcnological economy freeing man from need, creating huge wealth for all with no corresponding labor needed but thanks to energy use, networks, highways, electronics, etc. huge economies of scale and such.
    The average growth will continue, some countries will go down, some up, but the average will tend to some middle ground: the USA, EU and JAPAN will lose their wealth, some of it, maybe even 50 % in a few years, but China, India Brazil will gain that wealth, and it may even out, the world finally an even playing ground all with similar levels of wealth, a flat playing ground in a few years of such. The pattern is simple: the pay levels worldwide now fall in four windows, from 30 dollars a month in Somalia, to 100 in Vietnam to 300 in China to 800 in the EU and USA, end of story, 4 stages, 4 phases, 4 steps, so this will even out to a middle 600 dollars a month or so.
    And growth may be choppy, it may be all over the place (and sometimes no place, all random chaotic), sometimes high sometimes low (some 3 % a year for 10 years in some places and times and then maybe -2 % for 10 years in that same place, all kinds of numbers and statistics, very nonlinear and such), chaotic, some places becoming dirt poor again like Europe, other places becoming hugely rich, all the statisical flukes cancel out in the end, it doesn’t matter how choppy the lines are of growth worldwide and according to where, when and how, the end result will be forward, towards the future, towards the colonization of the solar system, towards saturating all of the earth with structures, buildings, malls, cars, ocean liners, jets, high speed trains, a completely sauturated earth, as it should be, thou shall be done on earth as it is in heaven. AMEN.
    These green tree huggers are still hoping in some kind of alternative, some kind of fairy tale land of the hippies all stoned and all peace love and music and all nature loving when that was possible exactly because machines, cars, oil, the techno-science structure of society in the 1960s allowed so many young kids to idle on finally free from need, the first time in history where people were free from need (although the hippies mostly belonged to the upper middle classes, “radical chick” stuff but anyways): and that is their mistake and the mistake of all the greens and the old timers: they don’t get it that that techno-science, the plastic society is the only society possible, that will free you from need, from hard work, free to goof around and such, and they are goofing around because if they ever worked in the farm fields like the chinese did until a few years ago, they would hate nature with all of their guts, as any normal person should, and in fact I am so glad china is building like crazy, polluting their air like crazy, they are going forwards, they will solve their problems because they haven’t been poisoned by the nature loving thugs, the green thugs in the USA and EU, like the idiotic germans wanting to get off nuclear energy: what crazy thugs, what craps, the cleanest, best energy in the world and now for some religious ideological reason they want to shut them down, what clowns, thugs, idiots, stick em!
    SO either it is this society or no society, this economy (with ever increasing consumerism and waste and energy use, pollution (is so cool!) and all) or no economy at all, this or nothing, this or poverty, extreme poverty and starvation, there is no middle ground, either all or nothing, either plastic society or pain and the third world stone age crap, go to the poorest in africa to see how nice it is to live without the creature comforts and consumerisms jackasses!
    Now either you are part of the problem or part of the solution: be part of the solution, build and waste and consume like crazy!
    ape thug

  207. Carol Newquist March 5, 2013 at 8:35 am #

    stick em!
    ==========
    You’ve convinced me. In light of what you are suggesting, I’m recently in receipt of a 60″ flatscreen Smart HDTV. The children love it. It’s so cute when they cuddle up in front of it with their inhalers. It’s as though it were meant to be. It’s far better to be barely breathing and consuming than to be breathing freely and cultivating potatoes like our ancestors.
    By the way, what exactly do you mean by “stick em!?”

  208. nery25 March 5, 2013 at 9:40 am #

    What you socialists don’t realize is that people have a choice – a choice to shop or not to shop at Walmart; a choice to work or not to work at Walmart. Don’t like the low wages Walmart pays – get an education or a trade or better yourself and stop wallowing in self-pity.
    Socialists are bringing your country and other countries down. Wake up and and smarten up!

  209. dale March 5, 2013 at 10:06 am #

    But I’ve never bought any item there; I never spent a penny in the store.
    ——————-
    Me either, although I routinely do a “surgical strike” to their retarded little brother chain, “Winco”, although I hate going there.
    I can never figure out who looks worse at Winco, the wretched over-weight, depressed looking people who work there, or the shoppers, who often look even more pathetic. There’s a lot of suffering out there, no matter how you parse it.

  210. Carol Newquist March 5, 2013 at 10:11 am #

    The Marmara was a great choice. Quite a juxtaposition from the New York Palace where we stayed on our last visit. The rooms at the New York Palace are typical, but the lobby and courtyard are swanky, and of course, right across the street is the famous St. Patrick’s Cathedral where the blood of the lamb flows in perpetuity, absolving the brethren of the innumerable little murders that occur daily in the name of the Father. The owners of the New York Palace sunk some cash into the veneer, no doubt to capitalize on first impressions. For most, it probably has the intended effect, meaning they’ll overlook other obvious flaws, but not us. Despite the ornate decor of the lobby, it is just a hotel, like all the others. The Marmara, conversely, has a no frills lobby. It was previously an apartment building reconstituted into a hotel. The rooms are not those of a typical hotel. They are like, well, like an apartment. Go figure. And the feature that impressed me the most was our own private balcony; something not too many hotels in Manhattan offer in this price range.
    I must admit, the balcony also scared the shit out of me. If I warned the kids once, I warned them ten times or more; “don’t play around on the balcony.” “We don’t want to suffer the same fate as Eric Clapton.” True to form, they didn’t listen, and I had to admonish them right away. I holler because I care. I had a t-shirt that said that. I used it as a nightshirt. It’s now in a landfill somewhere. Not me. Not anymore.
    Sean, like myself, apparently has a fear of heights, but Gwen and Robin were like The Flying Wallendas. The height didn’t bother them a bit. Sean and I, on the other hand, were like Dr. Richard Thorndyke in High Anxiety, remaining as close to the sliding door as possible when out on the balcony and holding on to anything affixed to the side of the building. At moments like this, I get a feeling that’s difficult to describe. It’s a feeling in my crotch, as though my manly parts are vulnerable and about to be removed. I know that sounds odd, but it’s true. I don’t know how else to describe it. Maybe it has something to do with chakras, or a permutation of castration complex. Maybe I should wear suspenders when I’m out on balconies. Something to consider.
    I don’t sleep well on trips, but the Marmara was an exception. Why, I can’t be sure. The bed was exceedingly comfortable. Not a typical hotel bed. And the temp in the room was perfect for sleeping, but both those things still do not explain why I slept the sleep of the dead. Gwen did too, so it wasn’t just me. Sean and Robin? They always sleep the sleep of the dead, so they’re no indicator. Perhaps it was the lack of oxygen in the Manhattan air. As much as we love the city, it’s highly polluted, and considering the sweltering temperatures they’d been experiencing this summer, you know the air pollution was at highly concentrated levels. Yeah, not quite Beijing, but they’re trying. Or, maybe the Marmara staff is pumping a gaseous form of melatonin through the air conditioning system. That would be cool, and a lovely gesture aside from the liability concerns. I can see it now; melatonin-addled sleepwalkers making their way to the balcony and plunging to their excruciating concrete death thirty stories below.
    Elevators are awkward. Who wants to be cramped in a small moving box with perfect strangers? Okay, they’re not perfect. That’s obvious, and it’s what makes elevators practically unbearable. So, I avoid them if I can. Even though our room at the Marmara was twenty some floors up, I managed to take the stairs half the time, at least, and Sean and Robin got in on the act. Not Gwen, though. That kind of cardio is anathema to her. The women in her family eschew extreme physical exertion, especially the aerobic variety. It’s a Southern thing, in my opinion. Talk about getting your cardio. You don’t need a gym. Just walk the damn stairs every day and you can avoid the senseless gyms that are as awkward, if not more so, than elevators. I don’t know, some people like being in close proximity to others. Pick pockets, for example. Their profession requires physical intimacy. Molesters, too. Elevators and crowded compartments of any sort are most likely a dream come true for molesters. Something to think about the next time you’re on a crowded train, or in a crowded elevator. Beware the touchy-feely types. Also, there are those who are oblivious and indifferent. To them, a muffuletta is a hoagie. It most assuredly is not. The train ride to Buchenwald and Treblinka would have been manageable for people like this. For me, I would have died just at the thought of getting on those trains for all the reasons just mentioned, and some.

  211. jdfarmer March 5, 2013 at 10:16 am #

    I saw the ghost city article a few weeks back. In Africa. These ones are in China. Whole cities, empty.

  212. Buck's A Stud March 5, 2013 at 10:59 am #

    I had no idea who Gary North was before Jim’s posting and after a cursory search I’m not really compelled to look further. But I do wonder why Jim described him as a “hyper-patriot”?
    Was he in the military; did he do something extraordinarily brave deserving of the title “hyper-patriot”?

  213. Buck's A Stud March 5, 2013 at 11:10 am #

    As some have mentioned you make some excellent points. But you undermine those points by marginalizing the potency of “Nature”. When you start down that path it feels as if I am reading the equivalent of a locker room pep talk, or a speaker pounding on the podium, as if a temporary surge of adrenalin (supplied on the micro-level by “Nature” ironically) somehow elevates human prowess higher than it deserves to be.
    And yet, is the Golden Gate Bridge a positive addition to the bay, especially from an aesthetic standpoint? I think it is, and it should give one pause when the other extreme is advanced, that “Nature” cannot be improved upon.

  214. Buck's A Stud March 5, 2013 at 11:39 am #

    Actually, Guru Tabor, The “Ape Man’s” writings triggered a fantasy for me. In this world of fantasy where man conquers Nature, a person can walk into one of those “beam me up, Scotty “tubes for about a minute or two and, viola, all aches and pains would suddenly be gone! The enlarged prostate the size of a grapefruit would be shrunk back down to walnut size. All those arthritic aches and pains would vanish as the healing rays of “Tabor’s Tube” magically manifested a rebirth of cushioning cartilage. And all of those goofy “semen retention “salesmen, so conspicuous in their lack of companionship and so ironically “incontinent” with verbal vermin dripping out the top and finger ends, well, they could simply take a seat next to Pee Wee Herman in the back row and finally relieve themselves of their delusional, emotional bile excesses .
    Anyway, I was telling some woman about my “Tabor Tube’ fantasy and she just looked at me for a moment before asking: “Will it get rid of wrinkles too?”

  215. insufferable March 5, 2013 at 11:47 am #

    Why do most people here have to always agree with Jim. Sure his is correct some of the time. However, we live in a free market economy. These large chains are filling a gap. Obviously if they didn’t they would go out of business. Many people are working in them, regardless of the horrors Jim seems to highlight. If there were only mom and pop stores most of the items would be garbage or top dollar for quality. They would not be able to employ thousands of people or offer them benefits also. In a free market economy, everyone has equal opportunity to make money. However it does require ingenuity and perservance. If these big stores last then they deserve to because they are filling a need, somewhere. So to sum it up blind followers, Jim knows how to dish it out but he can’t seem to take it. I think the other side (conservatives) have gone overboard in the department of military and security) but Obama hasn’t done a thing to stop it. So my fellow americans, the entire governement both liberal and conservative are full of shit. Both Jim and Gary are two sides of the same coin.

  216. ComradeDystopia March 5, 2013 at 11:48 am #

    Connecticut will be issuing Drivers Licenses to illegals pretty soon. Turns out over 50,000 illegals live in New Haven alone, a ‘Sanctuary City’. The welfare benefits are very generous and attract migrants from throughout the third world. New Haven is home to Yale University. It is also beyond bankrupt, and the site of frequent gruesome murders, rapes and assaults, ‘specially on the weekends. At one time Winchester and the New Haven Railroad employed tens of thousands of workers, but they’re gone. All that is left is Yale, surrounded by slums.
    –CD

  217. ComradeDystopia March 5, 2013 at 11:50 am #

    In other words, A Lib Paradise!

  218. Carol Newquist March 5, 2013 at 12:38 pm #

    Is it my imagination, or does John Kerry look like he’s already been to the undertaker in this photo?
    http://news.yahoo.com/john-kerry-concedes-iran-moving-160606050.html
    Oh my God, oh my God, Iran is one step closer to having a nuclear weapon!! We’re all going to die, I tell you, we’re all going to die!!
    Yes, we are, and thank goodness for that little act of mercy from nature. We’re all going to die. It’s just a matter of when and how. That’s what makes it exciting.

  219. ComradeDystopia March 5, 2013 at 1:02 pm #

    If Iran detonates a nuclear weapon over Israel it could be the Black Swan Event that spells Armageddon.
    I’m not saying it will happen, but its a possibility. After that, as JHK says, all bets are off.
    CD

  220. UnstoppableFarceImmovableAbject March 5, 2013 at 1:11 pm #

    I was reluctant to go and read the article that JHK responded to in this week’s post. I much prefer to read JHK when he puts his narrative style to describing what for me is the disturbing farce of politics as usual in this country. His reply to North seemed uncharacteristically insecure; maybe I read him wrong.
    I personally don’t respond to internet trolls, as I have a keen sense of myself and don’t need to defend or justify my admitted egoism to others, as I’m constantly challenging and refining my thoughts on my own. In short, I don’t need to be proved right and actually prefer to be proved wrong. Criticism is healthy, but feeding the hopeless losers who must cling to the short hairs of others like parasitic venereal crabs to draw attention to themselves and their unimportant views is typically a waste of time. These people by themselves aren’t going to EVER have an original thought or attract an audience and effect a social change the way a talented guy like JHK has.
    Many of you mentioned that you’d never heard of GN, nor will you ever “hear” of the assorted lonely, desperate personalities that inhabit and pollute JHK’s blog week after week to the dismay of the other lonely losers who constantly feed these same parasites week after week. I’ll leave it to you to decide who’s who.
    The smarter CFN posters exchange info, wish each other well on their personal journeys and then go about their day having never been infested or even stung by the pinch of the pesky crabs.
    Enough of that, though. With this morning’s coffee, I foolishly read Mr. North’s giant cut and paste retort to JHK’s Walmart screed. After reading it I realized North simply hates whomever he believes to be a Leftist. That’s really his entire gripe. He’s uses JHK’s large block quotes as a vehicle to deliver his own aimless meanderings about the progression of big box chain retail over the years but never really delivers any incisive thoughts. His characterization of local economies as small town gangs that once held citizens hostage to a high price hegemony was at first interesting, but it’s clear that North is simply a devotee to the mythical free market structure that A) never worked without some manner of thuggish strong arming by either local, state, or federal imposition to begin with; and B) a system that time and again masks the fascistic, inverted global expansion of enormous corporations that could never deliver the type of low price incentives they have without government subsidy, military thuggery, and wage slavery. If North truly believes that Walmart’s purveyance of low quality, high churn consumer goods equates to a better life, then he is lost forever to his crotchety dinosaur mentality and not worth saving as the collapse meteor approaches. Let him wander toward his own extinction confident in his delusion; he won’t be missed.
    What was most telling about North’s fantasy devotion to free market consumption mythology is that all throughout his rant he actually agreed with JHK on some of the larger issues of general corruption spread throughout the system. No surprise there; he actually agrees with JHK on many broad points perhaps more than he’d care to admit; that’s why he reads him in the first place. He even endorses one of my personal favorites, Matt Taibbi.
    North ends his article endorsing the more efficient goods delivery system used by Amazon, just as JHK has in the past. He abandons his own topic and ends up making JHK’s point for him albeit in an indirect way. If the people who are going to lose their dead end careers as places like Walmart and Amazon further their own hegemonic interests and contract their infrastructures using logistic efficiency, what’s left for once retail slaves to do? Well, it seems that spending time shoring up closely knit communities just plain makes sense. The paradox is that local economies won’t require as much money to self-sustain and these rapacious leviathan retail structures that need slave laborer revenue and massive sales volume just to maintain profit margins will necessarily collapse. Moreover, North doesn’t acknowledge that as Walmart seeks to try and catch up to business models like Amazon’s, the need for delivery services like UPS, Fed Ex and USPS scales up, too. How will the jobless support free market profiteering then? The gubmint won’t have a tax base to subsidize shit. Giant retailers are actively pressuring government to subsidize and secure fuel resources at taxpayer expense. Something has got to give. Farcical, no?
    ~UFIA

  221. felloffthepeak March 5, 2013 at 1:29 pm #

    North is the son in law of noted “Dominionist” R.J. Rushdooney. These people feel they have a Biblical mandate to exploit all of the natural world. Though they claim otherwise they obviously include at least unbeliever humans. I am a bit curious if this is the same “Dr.?” Gary North that for quite a while had an ongoing ad in The Mother Earth News(late 70s-early 80s on how to get filthy rich by investing in something or other…”before it’s too late!”

  222. Janos Skorenzy March 5, 2013 at 2:10 pm #

    And if Israel does the same to Iran, same thing. This is called flexibility of mind. Always sees the opposite if applicable. Things (like blame) aren’t always 50/50, in fact they usually aren’t. But things (like blame) are almost never 100/0. But by siding with the Jews, you are tying into a black/white mindset – with Whites always wrong and Jews always right. The only way Whites can redeem themselves is b siding with the Jews.
    You realize how fucked up this is, I hope. Meditate on it (and by that I mean think not not think) and it will come to you – eventually I suppose.

  223. Janos Skorenzy March 5, 2013 at 2:18 pm #

    No wrong again. Some like Misty would blame the absolute ruin of Detroit on Liberals. But other Midwestern Industrial Cities like Cleveland and Pittsburgh have also been ruled by Liberals without the absolute ruin. So what gives?
    It’s the Quality of the People that is the first Cause – not the Party or Politics. And the Quality is largely a function of Race. Culture matters too of course, but that comes from Race too first and foremost. Obviously Environment fine tunes it. And in the case of individuals, upbringing can have a powerful effect in whether they reach their innate potential or not.
    So the ruin of Detroit has to be place at the foot of the people who ruined it – the Blacks. And of course individual blame has to be put on the people who brought them north, people like FDR and Henry Ford.

  224. Janos Skorenzy March 5, 2013 at 2:24 pm #

    A young Ozone in the make here. A perfect Leftist Asshole. This is the hard core Communist mentality that makes violence inevitable. Bill Ayers said that 10% of the American population would have to be put to death. Would you agree or was that too low?

  225. Janos Skorenzy March 5, 2013 at 2:38 pm #

    Kim Jong Un loves Basketball. So does Obama. Let’s start there. Rodman said that Kim is a nice guy. He should know I guess.

  226. FreewayAT March 5, 2013 at 2:40 pm #

    Just read both blogs (JHK’s retort followed by North’s critique) and, to be honest, this is all pretty creepy. Creepy because I once stumbled upon Gary North and followed his blog for a bit back in the Spring of 2009. That was when I, a seeker a few years out of college and still trying to figure out my role in the decaying North American economy, was trying the whole blogging and writing thing out for the first time (and commenting and leaving links to my own blog and since abandoned novel every week on CFN … sincere apologies for spamming Jim). During those uncertain days, I was open to all seemingly intellectual, well argued points of view in the blogosphere, including Gary North’s. I was seduced by North’s very solid libertarian free market capitalist tirades, seduced enough to even link his blog to a gold and silver coin trading blog I had up for a few months.
    It didn’t take me too long to find out about North’s insanely fundamentalist Christian beliefs and I immediately distanced myself and online presence from his writings. I still believe his libertarian arguments to be convincing and on the surface valid, but deep down his economic arguments are flawed due the same fundamentalist, overly simplistic analysis that his social and religious views are also based upon. He completely ignores the economic and ecological systems analysis that JHK consistently presents in his writing here. It is this systems analysis that keeps me coming back and reading Jim’s work, even though I now disagree with his pessimism and politics at times.
    Jim, I am happy you, despite your frequent hyperbolic ranting at the economic system that is American corruption and “clusterfuck” itself, refrain from the sort of moralistic ad hominem attacks North made in his rant against you.
    I am doubly happy that North refrained from bringing up your Jewish heritage, or else I’d really be having a 1933 creepy moment.

  227. Kyooshtik March 5, 2013 at 3:13 pm #

    Rodman said that Kim is a nice guy. He should know I guess.
    =========
    It is laughable isn’t it that Dennis Rodman, of all people, should wind up by happenstance as a diplomat from “the greatest nation on earth” to North Korea, one of the loosest canons on earth. Does Kim even know about the orange hair, the painted toe nails and the white wedding gown? Can things get any goofier than this?
    And what does Dennis know? I picture Dennis returning from North Korea with great fanfare and appearing with Jay Leno. (Like one of those man-in-the-street interviews where the man in the street doesn’t know who is buried in Grant’s tomb.) Jay asks Dennis to please explain for the audience his concept of why North and South Korea are at odds… why the US govt is “concerned about” N. Korea. Does Dennis know we lost 50,000 troops in a war with N. Korea in the early ’50s? Does he understand that they possess the A Bomb and regularly hint at using it? Surely it would make for a funny interview.

  228. george March 5, 2013 at 3:27 pm #

    I work for a big box retail outlet here in America’s former Motor City. It’s the only game in town now that all the manufacturing jobs have disappeared to China. For the first five years of operation, big chains like Wal-Mart effectively pay no taxes on new outlets. It’s all written off as a loss. After that the business gets another two year tax holiday if they do any renovations on their businesses. Then there are employment tax credits to offset the cost of hiring and training new staff. And then we add in the cost of widening and constructing new roads to handle all the extra traffic volume that comes with every new big box retail operation, all of it paid from taxes collected from the underpaid working stiffs who will be lucky to get a job at the only game in town, and you got a huge taxpayer-subsidized business entity whose only goal is to maximize profits by any means necessary.

  229. Carol Newquist March 5, 2013 at 3:37 pm #

    Yeah, they should have sent Dubya’s daughter, Jenna. If she’s good enough for Paraguay, she’s good enough for North Korea. She and Kim could have thrown a few back. She’s quite the party girl, afterall.
    Nah, those 50,000 didn’t die in vain. If not for their sacrifice, we wouldn’t have the surburbia-enabling Hyundai, Kia and Samsung. And don’t forget Gangnam Style!! Never would have happened if those 50,000 didn’t die along with all those countless Koreans. And, of course, this. Another way of starving. Famine by electronics.
    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/wired-south-korea/

  230. Kyooshtik March 5, 2013 at 3:51 pm #

    Some like Misty would blame the absolute ruin of Detroit on Liberals.
    ============
    No, Vlad, you missed his main point. Misty blames the UNIONS for the downfall of the Big Three automakers and by extension, Detroit.
    In general, I agree. My long since deceased father-in-law worked all his life for Ford. He had an 8th grade education. His last family car was a Lincoln Town Car. In 2006 we sold his house for $325K. My m-i-l still has excellent medical coverage and those pension checks still keep coming. What is wrong with this picture?

  231. tripticket March 5, 2013 at 4:34 pm #

    Howdy, old friends!
    Nice, measured response to Gary North, and some excellent comments to follow. Especially prescient was the comment about how WalMart actually isn’t a free market success story, given how much public assistance their employees require to get by even in marginal fashion. I’m always curious as to whether those giant WalMart buildings will slowly transition to large bazaar type markets over the coming decade or two. I could see renting a booth space in there to peddle my wares, if that’s how things seem to be shaping up. I’d rather not do it there, of course, but if that’s where the action is…who knows how a recombinant future will play out.
    As for me, I’ve been in the woods for weeks with my chain saw, cutting and stacking firewood for next winter (and some for this one), cleaning up around the future driveway and chicken pen, burning pine tops, preparing for my typical annual round of fruit trees and spring chicks! We’ve added gas light to the big tent, which is a real treat after 4 months of oil lamps. I’m nearing completiong of a fence around the house and orchard, including about 100′ of 6′-high stockade fencing to the west to eliminate the negative influence of my (only) jerk-off neighbor (fun that he’s by far the closest to us!). Winter garden is starting to show some spring growth – collards and Swiss chard are strong, and new broccoli transplants are looking robust under the low tunnel shroud; garlic, shallots, and elephant garlic are 6″ high already; 30′ row of raspberries that are so excited to be alive they can hardly contain themselves.
    Another handful of pine trees need to come down before I build the next bed and drop the potato crop in; carrots, parsnips, and salsify seed down at that point too. But the major push is mushrooms this spring. I’ve teamed up with a mycologist in Atlanta to supply my spawn and co-lead wild mushroom hunts. A month from now we’ve got $1000 in fares from the city coming up to hunt for morels in the mountains. Lion’s mane and maitake (both scrumptious) are getting pumped into stumps in the forest garden, shiitake logs for the laying yard and for sale at markets – a couple hundred at least. At $30 apiece, they are a nice addition to the business, which looks to double up this year. We did $5000 gross sales in 2011, $25,000 last year, and are gunning for $50k this season. Almost back to respectable…
    But you know me, it’ll all go into food, water, and earth-building systems, or more land, and I won’t go much higher without providing a job for someone else, too.
    Hope life is moving in positive ways for you regulars. See y’all around.
    Tripp out.

  232. ditcher March 5, 2013 at 5:10 pm #

    Yeah them damn bigbox stores ruined everything.
    TheI recently went on a service call where the furnace was condemed by a local mom and pop business, ben in business for yeasr heck the guy is even running for an office congrissmin or some useles thing like that.Well respected in the commmunity. I am a local scoundrel, but I fixed the guys furnace and passed up the opportunity to rob the guy unlike the guys company who wants to make rules for you and me.
    So mom and pop aint no guarantee of integrity or honesty.
    And Now even Amazon is threatening Walmart.
    The global bigbox. Oh wait you sell books their dont ya?

  233. Buck's A Stud March 5, 2013 at 5:11 pm #

    Actually, Ozone had to come to the defense of this passive-aggressive poster because of a lack of logical thought. So now, a week later, this passive-aggressive poster, a “pussy” if you will, seeks to reassert itself with some lame and oblique sideswipes.
    So we agree…an “asshole’ indeed.

  234. ditcher March 5, 2013 at 5:14 pm #

    yeah thast the one,
    There are many around so it will be an intersting future for sure

  235. Kyooshtik March 5, 2013 at 6:08 pm #

    I work for a big box retail outlet here in America’s former Motor City.
    =========
    Sounds like you are none too happy to be one of the fortunates to have a job.
    So what do you think… the powers that be DIDN’T do an assessment of all those tax breaks and other perks and decide whether it was a net positive? Was it Walmart that fucked the taxpayers or was it the politicians who let the travesty happen? Or was it, after all, not the tragedy you imply it was?
    BTW George, please explain what you mean by “It’s all written off as a loss.” What is “it” and WHO is suffering the loss, Walmart or Detroit? Since Detroit doesn’t file a tax return the concept of a write of doesn’t apply so I guess you meant Walmart.
    People like Cramer in a Sienfeld episode who mouth cliches like “it’s all a write off Jerry!” have no idea what a write off is. A “write off” is a LOSS. Its only benefit is its partial mitigation by not having to pay tax on a profit.

  236. anti soak March 5, 2013 at 6:49 pm #

    Go mushroom$ go.
    Any word on yr old homestead in Macon?

  237. anti soak March 5, 2013 at 7:21 pm #

    Hey Pops, if y’r FiL was born circa 1900-1930,
    the 8 years of schooling he had MAY HAVE BEEN BETTER
    THAN G1-12 + a B.A. today.
    And, if not, [but I doubt the not] he was as well
    educated as his peers, or better. Yes?
    Ever read ‘Visions of the Anointed’?
    or ‘The Bell Curve’?

  238. myrtlemay March 5, 2013 at 7:21 pm #

    Hi Trip, Glad to hear you’re making it work. You are an inspiration to those of us that are seeking a way to scale back and even thrive in a smaller, earth-friendly economy. I remember the early struggles you and your young family had what with having your old car (Toyota?)broken into, your property invaded, etc. Your fortitude should be a lesson to the people who visit this site that you can really change things with a bit of intelligence and determination.
    Keep up the good work. I’m happy to hear you and your family made it through the past winter in the tent. Perhaps you’ve made plans to build something more substantial for the coming year(s)? We’d all like to know, so stay in touch and keep us informed. MM

  239. Janos Skorenzy March 5, 2013 at 7:24 pm #

    Liberals, Democrats, Unions – where does one begin and another one end. I don’t think my thesis is threatened. Was it Cleveland that elected the little gnome Socialist as Mayor? Yet Cleveland isn’t the basketcase Detroit since it doesn’t have nearly as many Blacks.

  240. Janos Skorenzy March 5, 2013 at 7:35 pm #

    Perhaps Mushrooms were the first form of Life, the Father/Mother of us all. Perhaps our bodies are just a way for Mushrooms to produce more mushrooms. Apparently if you take certain Mushrooms, this is the story they will tell you. And they came from another World – thus it is strangely like Mormonism.

  241. myrtlemay March 5, 2013 at 7:41 pm #

    I’d venture to say that an 8th grade education in 1925 was far superior to what passes as a college education today. My Aunt (who just turned 100 this past February 14th) showed me her high school final history exam dated June, 1931). Among the questions were:
    Analyze the reign of King Richard the Lion Hearted and Louis IX. Describe how their approach to battle and their rule over their subjects were similar and different. Include important dates that affected their eras.
    Describe the Battle of Hastings and how it influenced the politics of the world as it was then known.
    Who were the most influential rulers during the 15th century and how did their actions affect the world as it was then known?
    There was another section that asked about the Latin roots of common English words and what their original and modern day meanings were.
    I’d challenge most of today’s graduates to be able to understand the above questions, let alone write a 2-3 page summary about them.
    (My cousin, Carole, my aunt’s daughter, showed this exam to me as Aunt was flitting about her dining room, eating chocolates from assorted Valentine’s Day candy boxes she received on her birthday).

  242. ComradeDystopia March 5, 2013 at 7:49 pm #

    Hey MM none of those questions could be asked today. Everybody knows history began with the Civil Rights Movement in the 50s. Anything before that is irrelevant.
    Did you say Tripp spent the winter in a tent?
    –CD

  243. Carol Newquist March 5, 2013 at 7:58 pm #

    Baloney. I doubt Kyooshtik is scaling back like Trip is, and I doubt you are. Either way, if everyone emulated Trip, there wouldn’t be enough land to support it, considering current population levels. I suspect many here know that, so, many here are figuring in a significant die-off. What makes any of you so sure you’re not part of that die-off, if you’re not already seventy and above?
    Orlov has been thrown around lately in a positive light. Don’t forget, not too long ago he asserted that there is no preparing for a collapse, and those on the margins who aren’t even aware of it will probably be the ones to weather the storm, if anyone does. They’ve been weathering storms their entire lives. Most everyone here hasn’t.
    In addition, you had your cute and convenient little life of consumerism, so how dare you deprive the next generations of their own. You dined with Joan Kennedy at the Parker House, so don’t you dare preclude some current debutante from dining with Michelle Obama at the Everest on LaSalle.

  244. Janos Skorenzy March 5, 2013 at 8:02 pm #

    Why shouldn’t Kim Jong Un and other pudgy little Koreans form a Basketball Team and tour America? They could play and humiliate a team of White Dwarves called the Jersey Whites. Hey, it couldn’t be any worse than the Ethel Kennedy’s Special Olympics – that’s a horror show.
    The Jackson Whites were a group of Tri-Racial isolates: Black, White, and Indian. The Jukes and Kalikacs were other such groups. One such group was in Illinois before the main White migration. Their Leader boasted, “I’m better than any man who wears store bought clothes”.

  245. Carol Newquist March 5, 2013 at 8:06 pm #

    Rote learning does not equal intelligence. Retention of information does not equal intelligence. Reciting answers to the questions you submitted is not an indicator of intelligence. It simply reveals how well someone regurgitates predigested thoughts and ideas. It says nothing about the person’s ability to think critically and objectively, nor does it indicate a person’s ability to create and develop new concepts and ideas. Not to mention, the amount of information since that time has increased exponentially. There’s no possible way for someone to retain all this information, and there is no longer any need to, if ever there was.

  246. myrtlemay March 5, 2013 at 8:58 pm #

    I don’t think I said that rote learning equaled intelligence. What I did (do) mean to assert is that the majority of students today cannot put together a rational, well thought out essay in proper English to pass any type of exam that was typical of the requirements of high school graduates 70-80 years ago. They especially are unable to place current events into historical contexts, meaning their understanding of past events is non-existent. This ability is crucial to being a well rounded, intelligent, informed citizen of this country. The fact that this point escapes you proves my point. My guess is that you’re probably under 50 years of age – not exactly a hallmark of educational achievement – if you get my drift. Perhaps you should re-read the classic, “Why Johnny Can’t Read”, a ’50s classic endictment on why the modern educational establishment has failed us. Prose is not a big concern in modern day “Educatia”, as it were. Newly minted grads cannot even compose a simple sentence without gross errors…a fact that “E” has pointed out numerous times, and that “Q” beats mercilessly with a stick whenever he seizes the chance.
    You seem to judge me on the basis that I’m older (I am) and that I once knew Joan Kennedy as a friend. I haven’t seen Joan since I lived in Boston in the l980s. She was a nice lady who really suffered from her association with a veritable louse, namely, her idiot husband, Ted. By the time I met her, she had been used and abused by him and the Kennedys like a restroom floor mop on Interstate 95.
    In all, it sounds like you’ve got some issues that may or may not be solved by some therapy and/or prescription medication. I’m not the enemy here, despite what your imagination might tell you.

  247. ComradeDystopia March 5, 2013 at 9:03 pm #

    Hey MM be careful who you call an idiot. You’re talking about ‘The Lion of the Senate’, here!
    –CD

  248. ComradeDystopia March 5, 2013 at 9:06 pm #

    Also the author of the 1965 immigration act, which opened us up to the 3rd world hordes. He gave a speech on the Senate floor saying only 6 or 7000 would show up. He was only off by a hundred million or so.
    CD

  249. xport March 5, 2013 at 9:13 pm #

    So now that the sequester has kicked in we can embrace Austerity. Wonderful, and how joyful it all is to the masters of the universe. Note how the right wing enjoy crushing the working class.
    How gleeful as the stock market celebrates a new all time high. What a joke. It is the ultimate ponzi scheme, and there is no where to go but down.
    Buckle up and prepare for the new reality of less is more of what you are getting.

  250. myrtlemay March 5, 2013 at 9:25 pm #

    Interesting! Teddy was not exactly an honors student, so I’m not surprised that his math was off by oh, I don’t know, a few HUNDRED MILLION! I believe he almost got his ass thrown out of Harvard over a cheating scandal. What he did do a great job of, according to Joan, was put on a good “face”, meaning whatever he lacked in Kennedy charm and intellect, he made up for in acting and lying. He was perhaps the quintessential politician of that era who knelt at the altar of the Zionists of Israel. It’s almost enough to make one believe in god that he wasn’t elected in l980. Joan had an entourage at the time, watching her 24/7, keeping her away from the bottle and on a steady dose of Valium, Darvocette and Seconal. The “Mothers Little Helpers” of a bygone era.

  251. Carol Newquist March 5, 2013 at 10:25 pm #

    You’re a hoot. Really, you are. How do you determine which screen name you’re going to use at any given moment? That’s really the only mystery left for me as far as you’re concerned. I have the how, why and what, but I’m still trying to figure the when. A classic indictment of your thesis that general education prior to the 1950’s was somehow superior is superficially betrayed by your spelling indictment as “endictment.” Or, perhaps you did that purposely, just to prove to the witting that it’s all just a ruse. I’m betting on the latter explanation, even though I don’t gamble, or at least not with money.

  252. Julian C. Lee March 5, 2013 at 10:40 pm #

    I bet you sweat over getting that paragraph perfect.
    “A classic indictment of your thesis that general education prior to the 1950’s was somehow superior is superficially betrayed by your spelling…”
    The “classic indictment” got “superficially betrayed”?
    Uh huh.
    So I guess couldn’t make up your mind whether his spelling error is a “classic indictment” or a “superficial betrayal” so you figured you’d list them both.
    Abortions of sentence construction like the above are what I associate with your ilk, if you will.
    Give up.

  253. BillinTaiwan March 5, 2013 at 10:53 pm #

    Expecting a mouth breather like this North person to grasp reality as it is clearly described in this blog is rather like expecting a clever dog to understand basic quantum mechanics. But it is good to get some idea of what passes through his reptile brain since he is likely typical of a significant chunk of the populace.

  254. Janos Skorenzy March 5, 2013 at 11:03 pm #

    But think how many of them are now “American Citizens”. What are you, some kind of racist?

  255. Janos Skorenzy March 5, 2013 at 11:07 pm #

    Correct, but nevertheless, rote can develop concentration – and that is indispensible for the function of the intellect. People don’t have to remember anything anymore and it shows.

  256. tony March 5, 2013 at 11:10 pm #

    Folks,
    I’m “new” here. Been reading North (and NO, he is NOT the same Ollie North of Iran Contra) and Kunstler for a few years (JHK on various other sites).
    Was directed here from another site. You know, some of you have some rather important things to say. Why don’t those 5-10 of you get together and throw out the foul mouth idiots with the room temperature I.Q.s that are barely smart enough to hurl insults and invectives at each other.
    Both North and JHK have things to say. Why not address those ideas–perhaps we can work our way out of this mess.
    You know, when there are a helluva lot of folks following both of these writers, you (on both sides) must think your VERY “smart”, MUCH smarter than all the followers, to be able to call all those followers “dumb”.
    always,
    tony

  257. Janos Skorenzy March 6, 2013 at 12:02 am #

    Education was superior back then. Kids were more educable (if that’s a word) since the Culture hadn’t completely died yet. Also we were over 90% White which sure helped too. Even the high IQ East Asians aren’t that good with Words. And why would they care about our Culture and Traditions to being with?

  258. Janos Skorenzy March 6, 2013 at 1:47 am #

    Gun Grabber Bastards and Bastardettes hate women and want to leave them helpless against rapists and home invaders.
    http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/03/05/arrogant-co-dem-scolds-rape-survivor-at-gun-ban-hearing-statistics-werent-on-your-side/

  259. Janos Skorenzy March 6, 2013 at 1:50 am #

    How did he offend thee? I remember you reproved him gently for his caveman type naturalism. What happened after that?

  260. adequatio March 6, 2013 at 2:23 am #

    He was only off by a hundred million or so.
    CD, what’s a hundred million among friends (out of 7 Billion on the earth)?
    But, seriously, your number of 100 million is way too high. In the three decades following passage of the Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1965, more than 18 million legal immigrants entered the United States. Add another 11 million illegal immigrants and you still don’t come close to 100 million.
    Let’s be generous and say it is 75 million, more than twice the real number. 75 million is .7% (less than one percent) of the world’s population and only about 25% of the USA population. I won’t lose any sleep over those numbers.
    If it makes you feel any better new census data show the USA has 231 million whites (75%), and the number of white residents increased in the past decade. Those who believe the white majority are the cause of our problems will welcome a white-minority nation… if that day ever arrives. But 75% is a commanding majority, so I don’t see that day ever arriving. (And, yes, I know the data on live births and that doesn’t change the fact of a 75% white majority… with money, power, and control… in the USA today)
    Sorry if I have disrupted any beliefs with these facts from the USA census data.

  261. piolenc March 6, 2013 at 2:26 am #

    I’ve read this carefully, but I still can’t find the part where Mr. Kunstler explains how Walmart coerces customers into buying from their stores, nor how Walmart compels people to work for them under terms of which Mr. Kunstler disapproves. But if compulsion is indeed absent, then Gary North is justified in his comments – Mr. Kunstler really is sitting in judgment of the free choices of millions of Americans and condemning them. Mr. K. is of course entitled to his opinion of Walmart, but he doesn’t have the right to choose for others, though he clearly wants to.

  262. adequatio March 6, 2013 at 2:45 am #

    CORRECTION
    75 million is 1.07% (just about one percent) of the world’s population and is less than 25% of the USA population.
    And 75 million is a high estimate for immigration since 1965.
    18 million legal immigrants from 1965 to 1995
    14 million legal immigrants from 2000 to 2010
    11 million illegal immigrants
    ===========
    43 million TOTAL
    43 is way below your “100 million” and way below my generous 75 million.
    43 million is only .006 (less than one percent) of the world’s population and only 13.6 per cent of the USA population. I’m still not losing any sleep over those numbers.

  263. lucky 13 March 6, 2013 at 3:02 am #

    Klassik DDouble-talk!
    Bring em in, reward em for not assimilating,
    set the stage for the ‘illegal hordes’, watch the dominoes fall AND BLAME SOMEONE ELSE.

  264. lucky 13 March 6, 2013 at 3:04 am #

    Facts were emphasized, not feelings, PC, diversity.
    The SATs had yet to exist, when the SATs were too
    fact based, they too were dumbed down.

  265. lucky 13 March 6, 2013 at 3:09 am #

    GN has been writing since the 70s or earlier.
    He has written many books.
    We are safe in assuming its the same ‘Doctor’
    who was advertising in MENs in the 1970s.
    Some of his books are not that different from Jim Ks….but he took a cheap shot at JK.

  266. Janos Skorenzy March 6, 2013 at 5:29 am #

    Also as Plato said, you cannot change the music of a society without changing the culture. We are a different people now after the creation and dissemination of Rock and Roll. This music tends to keeps people focused on sexuality and emotion -the lower chakras.

  267. Laura Louzader March 6, 2013 at 7:25 am #

    Hi there Janos Vlad Skorenzy.
    Why am I not just quaking with terror here in Chicago? Somehow, I’m not. Beyond a couple of nasty little pockets here on the north side that are contested turf for the gangs, I’m OK. I have the beach a block away, a train that runs 24/7 two blocks away plus a half-dozen bus lines, and dozens of grocery stores, restaurants, retail outlets, more beaches and parks, and even two great locally owned hardware stores where the help know everything, within 6 blocks, and dozens of friends. I can safely walk everywhere, weather permitting. Further away but within easy reach of transit or bike lie museums, more live theater than any other city in the country, dozens of things to do for free, and every amenity known to civilization.
    People from afar who read about a city’s famous problems, usually know nothing about the place and that includes the media hacks who write about. This city is HUGE-241 square miles,. The areas in which 95% of the homicides occur lie a good 25 miles south of where I live and 22 miles south of where I work. You can live your entire life without getting near these areas. The north side of the city contains only half the area the south side does, but it contains twice the number of people, while the south side is a vast country of its own with many vast tracts that are totally uninhabited. The place is really two different cities, or maybe even three. While my area is not free of problems, we don’t exactly live in terror. We’re not terrified- just angry that so much of our money is diverted away from public purposes- like hiring the police we need- and to corporate welfare in various forms.
    Which leads me to the big box stores that are suddenly proliferating like fast food drive-up outlets all over town. Target is the concern expanding most aggressively, while Walmart has only one large store at the south end of the city and two small “neighborhood market” type places dealing mostly groceries on the north lake front.
    Now, somebody commenting here remarked that I don’t have to shop in these places if I don’t want to. REALLY? It so happens that the Target store on the north lake front is there because of a $48 Million TIF, which conveys all property tax increases withing the boundaries of the TIF to the major developers in it, of which Target is one. Target is yet another concern who will not build without a major gift from the municipality. It’s well known that Walmart extorts a gift of $4M or more from the local authorities everywhere it builds- this site will give you an idea of how much money this major Corporate Welfare Queen has extorted from spineless local authorities chasing something they call “economic development”-at http://www.walmartsubsidywatch.org/
    There seems to be a positive correlation between the upsurge in violence in my city in the past two years, and the number of Target stores that have gone in. There are now 4 stores between me and my place of work, a 12 mile train ride. At the same time, the police dept. is 1000 officers short of what it needs to minimally secure the city, and 4000 short of the number we had 20 years ago. Daley and Immanuel have wrought great destruction on this city.

  268. C Ritchie March 6, 2013 at 9:18 am #

    A lot on this site will disagree with my politics. Even though I don’t agree with everything Kunstler publishes, I do agree with his thoughts on Wal-Mart. My answers to the issue are different from his, but I wanted to share what happened to me on Gary North’s website. He is a condescending jerk toward anyone who dares to disagree with him.
    Occasionally, he posts political articles and he posted a take-down of James Howard Kuntsler. Now, [sigh] let me also explain that I fully understand that Kuntsler is not a Christian. He is foul-mouthed. I forgive him. He does represent most things liberal. However, his book, The Long Emergency, was one of the first I read once I got out of the military that started to de-program me. I wasn’t even aware of anything funny going on until about 2005 when I did some research on peak oil. This research is what opened the floodgates to all kinds of anti-establishment information. From there I progressively learned more and more, became a Libertarian and started studying economics.
    In any case, Kunstler was decrying the lack of morality at Wal-Mart and Gary North was attacking that position. So I got on to his website and posted a long question to the community. My thesis was that Wal-Mart doesn’t truly operate in a free market. Their customers don’t have the full information of how their products are provided at such low prices. Therefore, for those people who DO KNOW all of the information, it becomes a moral issue to do business with them. I compared it to buying cigarettes from the Mob. Sure you’re getting a better price, but at what cost? That isn’t free market either. The cigarettes are stolen. In the same way, I argued that labor is being stolen (slave labor) in China, Burma, Malaysia, and elsewhere that results in the low prices.
    My main argument is that if people had all of the information, they would indeed buy on principle. Or do you think people would knowingly buy products that support a slave trade? Is price really the final arbiter for a customer?
    I posted this on his website and was immediately ridiculed. First by Gary North: “Stick a gun in my belly!” Then by another poster: “Why don’t you just not shop at Wal-Mart and leave the rest of us alone. You can even make a sign for that.” Well, I responded in kind by saying ” Continue to do business with amoral and unethical people then. Worship money instead of God. Make your own sign for that.”
    Immediately after I posted that, Gary North posted this: “I have just removed this man from this site. He is no longer a member. He will receive his money back. He is a member of Jerks for Jesus. I always kick these people off.”
    Never mind that it was he and another poster that made snarky comments to me first which provoked my response about doing business with amoral and unethical people.
    Gary North is a hypocrite. He claims to be for free markets and free government on one hand while acting the dictator toward any dissenting opinion on his site. I had a minority opinion and he didn’t like it, so I was banned. What an asshole. Oh, and he deleted the entire thread. Too embarrassing to his credibility.
    One last thought. Gary North has never had a best-selling book. He’s had to self-publish everything he ever wrote. Could be just jealousy on his part against Kunstler.
    I’ve written a blog post where I address North’s argument. I hope to put the final touches on it and publish this week. Just click on my name.

  269. Carol Newquist March 6, 2013 at 9:26 am #

    North is quite the christian activist. Check this documentary out. The solution to the problems with the public education system? Replace it with a christian education, of course.
    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/new-reconstrucitonist-documentary-wants-public-schools-give-children-explicitly-christian-ed

    While a majority of the conversation about education focuses on how to improve the public school system by spending more tax dollars, hiring more unqualified teachers, writing more slanted curriculum, Gunn’s solution is to give children an explicitly Christian education to ensure that they are taught that God is the center of all things. “There is a deep philosophical issue in education. Who is sovereign and who will that child serve? Math, science, social studies — every subject taught in school is designed to give glory to God,” Gunn concluded.

    Don’t you just love names? Choosing the name North took some imagination, you have to admit. Who would have thought of giving themselves the name of a cardinal direction? Gary’s ancestors, that’s who. It’s as bad as naming yourself Syphilis or Gynelotrimin. And Rushdooney? What? That can’t be right. Who could take a Rushdooney seriously? Not me. Not anymore.

  270. Carol Newquist March 6, 2013 at 9:37 am #

    The problem with this approach is that it will ultimately lead to the same conclusion of you follow the reasoning in earnest to that end. That conclusion is civilization is based on theft. Theft’s at the heart of it. Theft of many things, but mostly, shoplifting the future for some shiny baubles today. No one wants to hear that, so the reasoning never makes it that far. Instead, it stalls less than halfway through the process, and that point that final point is used as the basis of argument. Yes, Walmart is stealing, but it’s doing so in a system that facilitates and encourages legal, and illegal, theft. In fact, the system not only encourages thievery, it demands it. Walmart does it smoothly and efficiently on a grand scale.

  271. C Ritchie March 6, 2013 at 10:38 am #

    Appreciate the comment Carol. You’re right. The entire system is corrupt. But I do start with God. How would God want us to steward this earth? If looked at from that perspective, I almost sound like an environmentalist. I don’t think God wants His people raping the earth of it’s resources, privatizing them, and then selling them back to the same people for whom those resources were once freely given. I don’t think the production cycle should end with the consumer or manufacturing plant who then take the waste and bury it, dump it, or send it into the rivers and oceans. The Story Of Stuff greatly educated me in this regard. God said to subdue the earth, not destroy it. I do believe we are to find the balance in interacting with the earth. Wanton waste is not the answer and certainly not the way Wal-Mart practices it.
    But, I’ll probably digress with the rest of the people on this site as well. (Gary North kicked me off his site too). I don’t believe the answer is solely government intervention and education. People are individuals and those people need a force inside that helps them to self-govern without the need for governance from without either through government regulation or socialized education. I believe that answer is submission to God through Christ. But I don’t have the answers to how that is worked out societally. I know many on here could point to the bad examples in history.
    I believe in the free market, but not in the aggregation of power in any institution. The concentration of power by the Catholic church is just as devastating to liberty as the concentration of power in a political or education system such as in the U.S. or China.
    Keep things small. Keep things local. As soon as things grow beyond that, the average person loses their voice. Think your vote matters? It does when voting for the local school board. It doesn’t when voting for president of the U.S. Think your dollar matters? It does when purchasing from your local organic farm. It doesn’t when you refuse to shop at Kroger or Wal-Mart.
    On the whole, I agree with you. Those large behemoth systems that sit astride the entire planet and across national boundaries need to be destroyed and dismantled. We should start by revoking corporate charters to companies that injure the communities they are a part of. We should also remove personhood status from the corporations. They have all of the benefits and none of the responsibilities of personhood. It’s a made up thing. Bring accountability back to a human level and things will change.
    I’ll stop here before it gets too long-winded.

  272. UnstoppableFarceImmovableAbject March 6, 2013 at 10:48 am #

    [[Don’t you just love names? Choosing the name North took some imagination, you have to admit. Who would have thought of giving themselves the name of a cardinal direction? Gary’s ancestors, that’s who. It’s as bad as naming yourself Syphilis or Gynelotrimin. And Rushdooney? What? That can’t be right. Who could take a Rushdooney seriously? Not me. Not anymore.]]
    Oh my lord, those lines had me spitting coffee through the nose with laughter. I learn so much from watching the well-practiced (professional?) writers on this blog. While many of the better grammarians and syntax masters here frequently commit logical fallacies they’re too insecure to admit, the clever turns of phrase leveled through insult are classic comedy in action. I mostly have to write dry research and technical papers, so I have to urge myself to visit free writing spots like JHK’s CFN to see examples of witty style. Anyhow, didn’t mean to intrude on the back-biting. A good chuckle before a long drive.
    ~UFIA

  273. Phaedrus March 6, 2013 at 11:40 am #

    Who in the bleep is Gary North and what the bleep does he know? I’ve never even heard of him before now.
    There is no reason to feel obligated to defend your position. You should feel good that so many people actually listen to want you have to say. It isn’t a popular position because it involves a level of honesty with oneself that most people aren’t comfortable with (to say the least!). The idea that ignorance is bliss has become so persuasive that we might as well print it on our money. Ignorance is death by a 1000 self-inflicted cuts not a way to live. We encumber ourselves with ponderous machinery. We create our own reality. It isn’t what happens to you, it is what happens within you. I feel no need to discuss or defend my positions to anyone. PEOPLE BELIVE WHAT they they WANT to BELIVE and then see things as they want to see them. God is not a person. God is Reality and they closer to Reality you are the closer to God you are. God does not care about our benevolence, learning, frauds, or wars. http://wp.me/s1LP6G-circles

  274. lucky 13 March 6, 2013 at 12:04 pm #

    People who own websites may act as censors at their sites.
    GN may be too dumb to discuss yr positions and look
    smart to his readers [remember he is running a business, has to look smart] so the easiest move
    was to block you.
    Jim Kunstler has removed comments here.
    The first comment in this thread AS OF SUNDAY
    was by Adequeatio[?]. The comment was removed.
    Ade was asking that the ‘nazis’ be blocked from posting, if I recall.

  275. C Ritchie March 6, 2013 at 12:17 pm #

    I love John Perkins book too! Next to Kunstler and John Taylor Gatto, one of the early ones I read that woke me up out of my trance.

  276. EndofMore March 6, 2013 at 12:36 pm #

    Fascism and theocracy worship at the same altar
    a fascist state demands obedience and and total deference to a supreme leader under threat of physical punishment
    a theocratic state demands obedience and and total deference to a supreme leader under threat of physical punishment
    a fascist state has an inner circle of paid enforcers whose job it is to see to it that the laws are strictly adhered to
    a theocratic state has an inner circle of paid enforcers whose job it is to see to it that the laws are strictly adhered to
    in a fascist state, those in high office live a life of luxurious excess, while the lower orders live in hovels
    in a theocratic state, those in high office live a life of luxurious excess, while the lower orders live in hovels
    think about it, it’s happened before, and will happen again
    everything necessary for it is already in place in the USA,
    The economy is in a tailspin because government is fighting with itself over what to do about it, that means a wacko presidential candidate will get elected on the jesus ticket next time–certainly by 2020 (pray harder and all will be well)
    When praying doesn’t work, it will be because of sinners —so get rid of the sinners!
    (read Jews in Germany in 1933).
    This is what the likes of North are aiming for. Don’t dismiss his kind as raving lunatics (that’s happened before too)

  277. budizwiser March 6, 2013 at 12:44 pm #

    http://www.nytenergyfortomorrow.com/index.php
    Should i go? is this what JK needs to do?
    James, these guys know all about the future…
    Right?

  278. C Ritchie March 6, 2013 at 12:47 pm #

    It may seem that way, but all of the Christians I know are just clamoring to be left alone. Localize everything. There is no thirst to rule. Just to see God’s kingdom come through service to fellow man. When people are internally motivated to serve one another, you can have a better society. This sounds a little too Utopian, I know. But believe me, the will to power is an aberration, not the norm. I think that is why only psychopaths seem to get into politics. You probably don’t believe me, but that is what I see. I don’t see a Theocracy coming. I see the Christians as being at the head of the line to be driven out by the Fascists.
    Haven’t you read of the characterization of Christians in the South and their guns as being on terrorist watch lists? We’ll be the first victims, not the rulers.

  279. Julian C. Lee March 6, 2013 at 12:52 pm #

    “North is quite the christian activist. Check this documentary out. The solution to the problems with the public education system? Replace it with a christian education, of course.
    I was schooled by Christian education — Dominican Nuns and Franciscan priests. Our class produced doctors and lawyers and such. And we came out known to be able to do logical sentence construction.
    While a majority of the conversation about education focuses on how to improve the public school system by spending more tax dollars, hiring more unqualified teachers, writing more slanted curriculum,
    And everything except giving blacks separate schools and focusing on practical labor for them, something that would actually elevate them — plus free Whites.
    Gunn’s solution is to give children an explicitly Christian education…
    You already said that.
    to ensure that they are taught that God is the center of all things.
    A good teaching. A bit too mystical for you though.
    Don’t you just love names? Choosing the name North took some imagination, you have to admit.
    Do we think choosing “Carol Newquist” took imagination?
    It’s as bad as naming yourself Syphilis or Gynelotrimin.
    Is it? (You forgot to say sh-t.)
    Who could take a Rushdooney seriously?
    Says Carol Newquist, the black African-American aspiring pornography writer posing as an English Lady.

  280. Beantownbill March 6, 2013 at 1:07 pm #

    I’m not locked in to the absolutist concept prevalent on this blog that our energy situation dooms us. It is the ratio of energy returned to energy invested that is the issue. Our current energy issues have to do with the fact that a good deal of the easily extracted oil has been used up, not that there is no energy. Apparently, because of environmental concerns in extraction, we will need to exploit other sources. Future sources of energy will either be much more efficient or much more plentiful than today – or both.
    Look around the universe; it is filled with energy. It’s not that there’s a shortage, it’s that we MAY not have the will to make this energy available. It is for this reason I hedge my bets and prep for bad times, IOW, hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. We shall see what happens in the future.

  281. Mike Hunt March 6, 2013 at 1:16 pm #

    I just opened a new account with the
    First Bendover Bank and Trust Co.
    Their motto?
    “We make money on the spread.”

  282. Beantownbill March 6, 2013 at 1:22 pm #

    No offense taken, Q. It’s funny, but when bI got to the word “Walmart” in my post, I was aware I had to make a choice of Walmart or Walmarts. I guessed wrong. I was trying to convey the idea that I don’t walk into any one of the numerous, individual stores.

  283. EndofMore March 6, 2013 at 1:52 pm #

    I agree absolutely
    most people are decent, as were most Germans in i933. All it takes is a charismatic leader promising to ‘put things right’ and they will follow him.
    Pretty soon they realise he’s a charlatan, but by then it’s too late, because it only takes a few thousand ‘enforcers’ to frighten everybody else into submission.
    Thus Hitler was able throw all his opposition into jail, with little or no protest from the majority of decent German people, who had no option but to go along with his crazy ideas for the next 12 years—after all…Hitler provided full employment and victories in war.
    The reality of course was that Hitler was burning energy at a faster rate than he could replenish it, and he ran out of gas,

  284. ComradeDystopia March 6, 2013 at 1:57 pm #

    Hey BTBill. I’ll be watching that Twins-Red Sox Broadcast Friday. If you’re behind home plate give a sign.
    Why is the Dow growing at 5% per month, and the real economy barely 2% per year? If the Dow is truly an indication of the shape of the real economy happy days are here again! I noted a little town east of here announced a $50 million upgrade of its high school yesterday, and West Hartford will be installing lights on it two town football fields for $10 million. Capital still exists for these projects.
    –CD

  285. ComradeDystopia March 6, 2013 at 1:59 pm #

    EOM, you mean a charismatic leader like Hussien Obama? His leadership qualities are Churchillian.

  286. lucky 13 March 6, 2013 at 2:14 pm #

    I too went to Parochial school [until I was kicked out].
    I do not recall what their definition of God was.
    What was taught was maintaining the status quo.
    Hindsight being 20-20, that was a good idea.
    Then was better than now.
    Even music was better 30 years ago.

  287. lucky 13 March 6, 2013 at 2:16 pm #

    clamoring to be left alone?
    BHO and Holder want drones overhead.

  288. C Ritchie March 6, 2013 at 2:22 pm #

    Are you implying that BHO and Holder represent Christians?!? Don’t make me laugh.
    I assume you are saying we are about to be targeted. That is precisely what I was saying in another post above.

  289. lucky 13 March 6, 2013 at 4:28 pm #

    No, what I mean is people dont want drones overhead, being spied on via web, etcetc.
    And the government is invading our privacy and worse.
    Yes, the constitution is under attack. Rand Paul
    is doing a filibuster now, or was earlier today.

  290. tripticket March 6, 2013 at 4:45 pm #

    Any word on yr old homestead in Macon?
    Yes! Closing at 2Pm Friday…

  291. tripticket March 6, 2013 at 4:47 pm #

    “Apparently if you take certain Mushrooms, this is the story they will tell you. And they came from another World – thus it is strangely like Mormonism.”
    Crazy, isn’t it? Those Mormon mushrooms…

  292. tripticket March 6, 2013 at 5:02 pm #

    Thanks for the vote of confidence, MM! We made it just fine through winter in our tent. And to address your detractors, we have no more land, arable land, than is still available to every person on Earth. [About 2 acres] With intelligent systems thinking 2 acres is plenty to support 4 people; some seasoned permaculturalists say 2 acres is enough to support 2 conservation-minded families of 4 – food, fiber, fuel, everything.
    What the Earth can’t support is all the other crap we Americans think of as normal. Yeah, my gas lighting, and, gasp!, my blog;) might have to go in the end…
    BUT, there are more appropriate technologies we can learn in the meantime, like biogas production from human wastes and (very low energy) shortwave radio communication. Can’t do it all at once, though, can we? Hope you are very well, ma’am.

  293. Janos Skorenzy March 6, 2013 at 5:19 pm #

    No, not necessarily so at all. There are many kinds of Fascism – as many as there are different Peoples. Hitler’s Fascism was Anti-Christian. So there goes your big idea number one.
    As for Economics, again variety is the word both between different Fascisms and inside any given Fascism as well. No, since Fascism is for the Nation, they aren’t going to let Big Corporations outsource, insource, and screw people to their hearts content. And no, that doesn’t mean putting top Executives up against a wall and executing them. Or making them work in the fields. These as STUPID Communist ideas. If an Executive is willing to work with the Nation, why shouldn’t he or she continue to enjoy their position, wealth, and prestige?

  294. Janos Skorenzy March 6, 2013 at 5:29 pm #

    Yes Cities can be huge. Babylon didn’t know it had been conquered by Alexander for three days. Glad you are on the North side. But are you completely Schwartzenfrei? How many are in your building, block, or street? Even one Black can be a problem. Not that the sweet little old Lady is, but her big strapping son might well be. And where there is one, there will be two, three, etc.
    Libertarians are getting even more insane. Here a direct disciple of Ayn Rand raves about how illegals are coming to America for the Freedom. And how they are going to build Galt’s Gulch. This Biswanger even thinks we owe them an apology!
    http://www.amren.com/news/2013/03/we-owe-illegals-an-apology/

  295. Janos Skorenzy March 6, 2013 at 5:32 pm #

    Interesting article: the Neanderthals seem to have been masters of pyrotechnology – able to make powerful glues from Birch pitch. The glues were so good they were able to glue their spear and arrow heads on.
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/defy-stereotypes.html

  296. Beantownbill March 6, 2013 at 5:42 pm #

    Marlin, supposedly I’m five rows directly behind home plate. I won’t know when the camera will be on me, so what I’ll do is wave my ball cap back and forth for a few moments every several minutes during the 1st 2 innings.
    Is that cool with you?

  297. Beantownbill March 6, 2013 at 5:47 pm #

    see my reply about the game above -somehow the post wasn’t addressed to you.

  298. Janos Skorenzy March 6, 2013 at 5:49 pm #

    Here’s another Leftist Zombie fantasizing about a Christian Fascist takeover even as a Communist Dictatorship is forming. They really believe this stuff too. It people like this who make Communism possible.

  299. Janos Skorenzy March 6, 2013 at 5:56 pm #

    Hugo Chavez: the untimely death of a Great Man, a true Fascist, a true Socialist, a true Patriot, and a true fighter for World Freedom.
    http://www.counter-currents.com/2013/03/two-cheers-for-chavez/#more-37111

  300. ComradeDystopia March 6, 2013 at 6:30 pm #

    Thanx Bill, I’ll be looking for you!
    I remember seeing the Twins at Spring Training back in the day — Bob Allison, Harmon Killebrew, Tony Oliva, Zolio Versailles — what a thrill it was.
    –Marlin

  301. adequatio March 6, 2013 at 6:43 pm #

    BeantownBill, I admire your rational approach that avoids kneejerk pessimism. You may be interested in this article: Our Future Will Be Brighter Than You Think
    It explains how we will have unlimited clean water and unlimited renewable energy, and how we can produce unlimited amounts of food. (Kind of supports iron79).
    Thanks for your comments.

  302. EndofMore March 6, 2013 at 7:32 pm #

    you missed my point Janos
    Fascism is just a term that is applied to idea, a dictatorial leader forcing those ideas on the mass of people in general.
    The exact name you give it is irrelevant, Pope, Fuhrer, Commissar–they all march under the same banner of totalitarianism. When popes had the power to burn unbelievers, they did so, as did the Fuhrer—same ideology, to instil fear in everybody else..
    Popes held power by corrupt means, capitalising on the irrational fears of the supernatural. Hitler was elected on the fear of the German people, of total economic meltdown…which was happening.
    The same will happen again, history repeats itself. If a government allows a nation to slide into economic meltdown, a strong dictator will takeover, and millions will follow him—into oblivion.
    Every history book is full of such people.
    Modern society doesn’t grant exception from such dynamics—the name you give it is of no consequence

  303. EndofMore March 6, 2013 at 7:34 pm #

    hate to disillusion you, but that is the philosophy of the flat earth cornucopia
    Or maybe the perpetual motion machine—equally ludicrous.

  304. Janos Skorenzy March 6, 2013 at 8:00 pm #

    Fascism is a political philosophy – an adaptation of a Nation’s Tradition to the modern industrial condition. And instead of a King there is a Great Leader who has alot of power. Is this Bad? Sometimes. Is this Good? Sometimes. It depends on the Leader, doesn’t it? Even the Left can’t find much to besmirch General Franco with. He was just and merciful in Victory – forgving many and giving others just sentences. Yes, he put the Monsters (and there were many Communist and Anarchist Monsters) to death.
    Another definition: Fascism is the political condition of the modern Industrial State at War. Did not the “Democracies” centralize and resemble the Axis Powers during the War? Did not Lincoln and the North? And Hitler was elected, so the resemblance goes that way as well. But again, Franco reigned peacefully for decades so this definition is only approximate.
    In any case, Fascism is not a boogey, a word for all the evil in the Universe. The Left loves to slander in this way and you are in this degraded tradition. The word you are looking for is Totalitarianism and you should use it. Then what you are saying makes some sense and it could cover both Leftist and Rightist Totalitarians. Why attack the Popes and Fascists and leave out the Castros, Maos, and Stalins?
    Machiavelli wrote about how the Prince keeps power. How to balance fear and love with a focus on fear. And people who worship such figures do have alot of growing to do. Machiavelli himself knew this. He actually yearned for a return to the Republic. But the People must be worthy or it will be a Republic in name only. And better a good Prince, King, President or Autocrat than that.

  305. Ixnei March 6, 2013 at 8:07 pm #

    Bwahahaha!!! Check out this 10+ year old doozie, just to keep it ON TOPIC (things seriously slipped about Monday evening):
    http://www.kunstler.com/eyesore_200209.html

  306. Beantownbill March 6, 2013 at 8:46 pm #

    Now there’s a man after my own heart! Why be pessimistic when life is so short? The worst thing possible is that you are wrong. By preparing for the worst, one can possibly survive if events head south. Then the pessimists can say, “See, I was right”. But, whether one is right or wrong in advance, the end result will be the same. So why not be optimistic but still prep?
    At least that way, one can go through life happy, rather than be continually depressed with all the doom and gloom.
    Is this attitude cornucopian? That’s just an adjective. I’d still rather be happy than sad.
    Anyway, thanks for turning me on to this guy.

  307. Carol Newquist March 6, 2013 at 9:12 pm #

    I’d still rather be happy than sad.
    ============
    I prefer to be all of it. Happiness isn’t happiness without the benchmark of sorrow, and vice versa. A range and balance of emotions is healthy. Don’t worry, be happy is like popping an SSRI. Yes, obsessive worry is unhealthy, but some worry is a good thing. It should be rephrased to worry, be happy.

  308. Julian C. Lee March 6, 2013 at 9:46 pm #

    Likewise, all the races and ethnic groups don’t need to crowd into the same house, city, or country. Let there be differences, if you will.

    “African-American’s Y Chromosome Sparks Shift in Evolutionary Timetable, NBC News
    You have to look back 338,000 years to find a common ancestor between his and other known human Y chromosomes.

    Interesting article at AmRen.
    http://www.amren.com/news/2013/03/african-americans-y-chromosome-sparks-shift-in-evolutionary-timetable/

  309. Beantownbill March 6, 2013 at 9:57 pm #

    I’ve already had 5 lifetimes of sorrow. I can do without more. I’d much rather have my heart filled with joy than rent from pain.

  310. Carol Newquist March 6, 2013 at 10:14 pm #

    than rent from pain
    ==========
    It sounds like you’ve carved out a significant space for the joy. I would call that balanced. If not, and somemore sorrow is in store for you, I hear it’s more advantageous to do a lease-to-own rather than renting. Once you own sorrow, you can do with it what you will.

  311. Mrs. Soake March 6, 2013 at 10:15 pm #

    Real estate is a real bargain right now. Better to own from pain than to rent from pain.

  312. Newfie March 6, 2013 at 10:26 pm #

    Gary who ?

  313. Beantownbill March 6, 2013 at 11:39 pm #

    Alternative definition of rent: a tear in a fabric. In my post above, the word was used as a metaphor for a torn/broken heart.

  314. Julian C. Lee March 7, 2013 at 12:31 am #

    Carolonius Pornquest was jonesin’ for some kind of grammar correction he could make a white fellow on Jim’s architecture and economics blog. But it blew up in his face again.
    Reminds me of when I complained about somebody being niggardly and my anti-racist wife went nuts. She, also, was not very literate. Maybe if you’d spoken of the heart rent “by” pain the pre-adolescent grammar police here would have been confused long enough to look up the word and refrained from trashing this blog for once.

  315. Ixnei March 7, 2013 at 12:32 am #

    I’ve been reluctant to state the following, but it must be stated. I do understand how artists/writers must create *characters* for their fiction. And, in order to develop said characters, they pretend to be *them*. So I do understand the sock-puppet necessity, in order to move *FORWARD*…
    But, you know I called all yer @$$es on it (without reply/confirmation)…

  316. lucky 13 March 7, 2013 at 1:06 am #

    Will you ‘boil it down’ for me?
    I found this there, very interesting!
    http://www.amren.com/news/2013/03/presidents-sibling-is-accused-of-attacking-two-of-his-twelve-wives-and-seducing-a-schoolgirl/
    Notable quote:
    Across America, White moms are pushing strollers with newly minted half-white future presidents.

  317. lucky 13 March 7, 2013 at 1:10 am #

    Was a documentary made of it?
    If so is it online?
    Will the place still be an urban farm?
    1 acre of Potatoes = 7.5 ton crop.

  318. abprosper March 7, 2013 at 1:27 am #

    To the topic at hand, consumer capitalism is a religion and as such, no point in arguing it. I think the rebuttal was excellent but it’ll fall on deaf ears
    For all those people criticizing Y2K preparations , the reason it was a fizzle may well be because we stopped it from happening
    I personally owned a piece of equipment (a fax machine) that suffered from that very year/date bug and was no more. .How much other vital stuff out there might have melted down or stopped working is impossible to know because so much was patched. For that I am grateful.
    Once in a while even in these falling apart times, we get it right and the Y2K retrofit was one of them.

  319. eud2e5s7 March 7, 2013 at 1:31 am #

    Fotocredits:

    dpa (18), PR (3), dpa/Patrick Pleul (2), dpa / Martin Gerten, dpa / Lukas Schulze, dpa / Piyal Adhikary, dpa / Frank Rumpenhorst (2), dpa / Julian Stratenschulte (2), dpa/Daniel Bockwoldt, AFP/KENZO TRIBOUILLARD, AFP/Brendan SMIALOWSKI, REUTERS/Yannis Behrakis, dpa/EPA/ANTONIO LACERDA, dpa / Peter Kneffel, dpa / Luong Thai Linh, dpa / Yonhap, dpa / Yuri Kochetkov, dpa / KCNA, dpa / epa/str, REUTERS (11), dpa / Regina Kuehne, dpa / Narendra Shrestha, dpa / Abir Sultan, dpa / Dennis M. Sabangan, dpa / Christian Charisius, dpa / Rolf Vennenbernd, dpa / Kimimasa Mayama, dpa / Georgi Licovski, dpa / Maxim Shipenkov, dpa / Sashenka Gutierrez, dpa / Raminder Pal SIngh, dpa / Jalil Rezayee, dpa / Marcus Brandt. Foto: Marcus Brandt, dpa / Massimo Percossi, dpa / Marcus Brandt (2), dpa / Jorge Zapata, dpa / Uwe Zucchi, dpa / Rungroj Yongrit, dpa / Bimo Satrio, dpa / Carsten Rehder (2), dpa / Dave Hunt, dpa / Hong Kong Police Public Relations Bureau, dpa / Miraflores Palace, dpa / Ariel Marinkovic, dpa / Erik S. Lesser, dpa / Ali Ali, dpa / Victoria Bonn-Meuser, dpa / Fredrik von Erichsen, dpa / Chema Moya, dpa / Saood Rehman, dpa / Justin Lane, dpa / Franziska Kraufmann, dpa / Dan Anderson, dpa / Marek Zakrewski, dpa / Karl-Josef Hildenbrand, dpa / Hannibal, dpa / David Fernandez, AFP (7), privat, Intosol_The_Saxon, Playboy, Facebook, DYNAFIT, dpa / Shawn Thew / Archiv, dpa / Jens Kalaene, dpa / Legoland Malaysia, Opel
    Alle Inhalte, insbesondere die Texte und Bilder von Agenturen, sind urheberrechtlich geschützt und dürfen nur im Rahmen der gewöhnlichen Nutzung des Angebots vervielfältigt, verbreitet oder sonst genutzt werden.

  320. EndofMore March 7, 2013 at 6:03 am #

    erm—-the precise word I used was totalitarianism
    I always find it best to read a piece before ranting on about it

  321. Carol Newquist March 7, 2013 at 7:34 am #

    Of course it’s the alternative definition, that’s the point. If you meant that alternative, and I believe you did, obviously, from the context, then rend would have been more appropriate. Sure, it’s cute to use rent, but that usage is antiquated and hardly ever seen anymore. Rent in this day and age has come to mean one of several iterations of owing/receiving money. I know you know this. It’s why I poked at it.

  322. budizwiser March 7, 2013 at 8:47 am #

    Once in a while even in these falling apart times, we get it right and the Y2K retrofit was one of them.

    I made an extra 40k in ’99 – even in the app had absolutely no chance of date related failure, the goofs in the “risk management” department demand that ALL apps be stress-tested in a “future date” environment and the all results documented in duplicate. Y2K? – “$yippy $2 $me”

  323. Carol Newquist March 7, 2013 at 9:12 am #

    Yeah, Y2K was one of the first examples of Precog Disaster Capitalism. The switch from CFC to HFC because of ozone degradation was the first. It was a boon for air conditioner manufacturers, causing the replacement of units well in advance of the depletion of their useful lives.

  324. 79iron March 7, 2013 at 11:31 am #

    Statistics and Numbers (GDP)
    Models, models, language itself, all abstractions, all abstract language creations pretending to correspond to reality, condensing reality into a few logical segments and debating these segments and pretending that you can actually influence reality by talking about it, debating it, by politics and choices and new laws and so forth.
    Aggregations, putting things together and adding them up and making a number that is supposed to imply something, mean somthing, like there are 1 million empty homes in china that means they are headed for a crash and housing bubble. Really ? not really, the numbers can imply anything according to any linear model, models and models all conveniently located within the controlled and comforting environment of your mind, the little world that your mind thinks the world actually corresponds to: nothing further from the truth, those houses are being used as a “Money Store”, are just a “symbol” are just a make believe kind of wealth, most likely they will never be used at all, the most important thing is that the value of those houses remain high, actually, those houses and building exist only as a function of the value they represent, this is something completely different from a housing bubble or price bubble as imagined operating in the EU and USA (and even in these 2 places, houses are mostly proxies for value, for imagined value, are a money store, are simply dollar bills written in bricks, and rarely do the prices go down much, always just a little, especially in the EU). China won’t crash because of this. And then these numbers always overlook all the little details, but it is all of the little details, all of the little decisions each person makes, what each person actually does that creates reality, always a very little reality that doesn’t extend much in space and time and doesn’t ever imply laws, trends or general laws, actually, it is all of the little quirk, random, arbitrary decisions of people doing whatever that breaks down the validity of all numbers and statistics in economics, that breaks down all trends and all theories, macro economic theories always.
    But the mistake is in the numbers adding things up and then using the numbers to mean something else: GDP is the best example, this number was invented in the 1930s, a very short time ago, way too short for the economists to be so Presumptuous to believe that is actually anything more than a little invention, a little make believe device useful to create other imaginary numbers and creations, a new creation, a new construction, a true metaphysical construction mixing the most different things and putting them all in one bag and then dealing with the bag as if it was something real, represented something real and such, and then this new fangled measurement, GDP was invented for the USA and in the 1930s a very specific place and specific time, it is hard to believe that it is valid and can apply for everyplace and all time as they all want to make you believe: this number, GDP, is the result of the huge advances technology made in creating ever higher production levels, jobs, standards of living all happening only in the last 200 years or so, way too little time to be sure that it is a law of nature that will always operate, way too unsure to extrapolate into any future and into any trends.
    Aggregatons, numbers are used constantly in all economic endeavors to then pass as true imaginary trends and laws and making believe that numbers can be converted into other numbers, like for example, the rich have become richer, they now have 80 billion dollars more wealth as compared to a year ago, with that wealth you could hire 400,000 people for 10 years and give them a salary: but you can’t convert one number into another like that even though poltical economy always pretends you can, no one will hire people to do no one knows what, since today the real problem is that no one has any idea what real actual work people should do, is worth doing, what gives any return, what is necessary and all in order to give them a salary, no one has the faintest idea of how to let 400,000 people pass 8 hours a day and how that should correspond to a salary, what manipulations, what input -> manipulation -> output is necessary, brings a profit, brings a return for society or even for other individuals, since very few activities really produce much value anymore, much profit, much gain, the diminishing returns of work and labor in general no matter what. That is maybe why real estate becomes a store for value, keeps its values high, its prices high, it is something everyone could need, it is something that remains, that you can actually use, it is not invisible information that doesn’t make any difference at all, if it is there or not, that can have any value at all arbitrarily according to how you want to value it, artistically, aesthetically, and so forth. And that is why Health Care costs so much: something you could need, something that forces you to use it, hence health care has now become the dominant economic sector of the USA; since all other things obviously have such little value compared to health care, and “education” but education only because you can make believe anything has any value since your education “will make you land that good job” (and then always based on the faith in the future, the hope of the future, you will be hired and get steady raises in the future, this also created all of the debts, since everyone thought that this system of life was a given, something that happend only in the last few decades became a law of nature, something that was an exception and a quirk, a one time fluke of history, and very uncertain if it could continue, became a certainty and created a faith in the future (and student loan debts) that was never really justified).
    Or you could use those 80 billion dollars to build 400,000 houses with cheap rents: but no one will do this since you build to make a profit. But then again, if nothing makes a profit then the rich are better off just keeping that cash, what they actually do, and tell society to go fly a kite, who cares. All of political economy, economists, all politics is always in this mode of adding up billions of dollars here, cutting here, deciding to do something else with those billions of dollars there, constantly converting one thing into another, only tied between eah other through numbers, these numbers are truly fantastic metaphysical devices, converting everything into everything else, connecting everything into everything else, anything can be converted into anything else by their dollar value and such.
    And notice the whole deal with banks, money, billions of dollars here, trillions of dollars there, trillion of dollars of debts and so forth, all of these aggregations, all of these numbers, the unemployment rate, is always the same trick: add up things coming from different sources and things and situations, from so many different people, make it become one number, and then talk on behalf of all of those people using one number, make your personal view and will power correspond to that of millions of people, when this is not true at all: all those people putting money in banks and creating large numbers for banks, creating the billions of dollars, all have different lifestyles, choices, different jobs or no jobs at all, all kinds of disjoint unrelated ways of thinking and doing things, and choices, and decisions, and instantaneous random decisions: this trick of using a single number to represent a complex, infinitely complex reality is what generates debts, and political economies and such. And even the debts, all added up really means adding up so many unrelated, disjoint costs and activities, always adding everything up and putting it into one number.
    We have all been brainwashed by this mode of operation, I have used it millions of times myself: if the US spends a billion here, that money could be used for this or that, if JAPAN now has 1 million people less in population then that corresponds to 300,000 extra homes available, the mode is simple: take any number and convert the value into anytihng else that adds up to the same value: the FED is printing 80 billion dollars a month, you could do anything else worth 80 billion dollars instead of giving it to the banks and so on. But this mode of reasoning is deeply flawed even though hard to see where: take the JAPAN example, yes there are the equivalent of 300,000 homes of extra floor space in the country since the population went down in the last few years, but the floor space is invisible and cannot be aggregated all together, it may be one room on one house, antother bed from a hospital and so many other completely unrelated, disjoint places and items, that there is no way to add them up, to aggregate them in reality, it is just an imaginary construction adding things up pretending that they can be added up and put together, pretending that a trend is going on and that it could represent another excess real estate bubble, when this is impossible (it may even play out in the end as excess real estate and a price crash, but I wouldn’t bet on it).
    But the real reason why all of these additions, aggregations, equivalencies, economic policies are flawed is even simpler: they all suppose that there are no other will powers opposing the aggregations, wanting to do things differently, choosing different aggregations, doing all kinds of things disrupting any kinds of aggregations: so the JAPAN has more rooms available, well guess what now dad can use the new room to put a new fangled stereo in it and so forth, these kinds of things are never considered in economy, in aggregations, in political economy and such.
    Anyways, the bottom line is this: GDP has been around for only a few decades, it is an invention, it doesn’t correspond to any law or truth, it is just a quirk trend that played out in the very recent history of civilization due to huge technological changes and huge advances of standards of living and so forth. We have been in a high standard of living society for not even 80 years, such a short time that no extrapolation is possible at all, we are at the very beginning of a trend or economic development, if there even is a trend or if this “economic growth” trend (or myth?) even continues. It is not normal to live in rich societies, humanity has always lived in poverty, we are in an exceptional situation, a real quirk, a real work in progress without any possible clue of how it will play out, not only in the USA, EU and JAPAN but also in China or Indonesia or Brazil.
    We all got spoiled, we all thought that our present (1970s, 80s, 90s, 2000s ?) standard of living and lifestyle was a given, an absolute, was an established law (and hence we created debts to be paid back for in the future expecting the economy to keep on growing forever, to offer always so many new jobs and possibilities and advances and opportunities and so forth (the idea of having to change the kind of job you do every two years has recently gone out of style, obviously the economists finally saw how absurd such an idea was when most people can’t even figure out what their “first” job type can possibly be!)), but it seemed so only for a few decades of exceptional stability and wealth after the second world war, then so many other disruptive forces started to influence everything, other countries gaining manufacturing capacity, other workers in other countries, technologies disrupting everything, economies of scale, energy prices and changes, and so forth.
    Nothing points to how things will play out, the problem isn’t oil or peak oil or resource scarcity, the problem is much deeper and general: no one knows what work is needed or will be needed and how to organize a society for little work, or how to distribute wealth when so little work is necessary and the only channel to distribute wealth is through work; no one knows how other countries will evolve, like China (building millions of empty homes as a form of cash, instead of dollar bills, buildings ?) no one knows how poor the developed economies can become, how will technology influence all of this and so forth. There is no clue, no one has any answers.
    And then you have the examples of Germany and Scandinavia where “you are not allowed to not work” and the welfare state finds you jobs no matter what, so everyone is employed, but these places are so particular, with such a particular culture, kind of “work ethic” or whatever, and then it would be interesting to see exactly how much of the labor done in these countries really produces anything, any real output given that the standard of living of these very rich northern european countries is only twice as high as the poorer southern countries like Spain and Italy, but anyways, another study of these countries is necessary (and then, if you can even apply these models to cultures and countries and societies with such different customs and ways of doing and mentalities and such, Italy is not Denmark for example no matter what).
    The bottom line is the conflicts, fights, political fights, this constnat drone of information, new information creating debates, controversies, contrasts, conflicts, confrontations, worries, new problems, debates and so forth, but mainly the fights and conflicts are making all of our societies so much poorer than what they really are and could be.
    Will we reach an Infinte Resource Society and colonize the Solar System ? Maybe, but I wouldn’t bet on it, the peak oil doomsters may even be right in the end, who knows…
    spark plug

  325. 79iron March 7, 2013 at 11:41 am #

    From:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=175880
    BUILD SKYSCRAPERS.
    Please, oh, pretty please, build skyscrapers, build like crazy! I was reading that in China they are building like crazy, they have “Forests of Empty Skyscrapers”. That is so damn cool, I can’t believe it! I can just imagine the blocks of texts that will be written about it in a few years, when their “housing bubble”, NAY, “real estate bubble” bursts : “The Disasters of a Planned Economy”.
    You see, what they are doing is applying logic, common sense, the thought process, the simple linear cause and effect mechanism to a real simple need: Real Estate is a need, it shouldn’t be a “scarcity”, so the more you build, the better, the more skyscrapers, the more “room to grow”, you have. Can you imagine how many chunks of furniture will be needed to fill them all up ? Can you imagine how many computers and TV sets will be put in all of those skyscrapers ? Between offices and houses, they are set to produce an infinite amount of consumer goods for all of that real estate, something never seen in the history of Man: the USA consumption of the 20th century will look so puny, it won’t even be on the radar of the future history books.
    So they are achieving Mind over Matter, the thought process dominates reality, they are planning it out, they are building their needs outright without waiting for that oh, so fickle, and oh so vague and mostly phony “invisible hand of the market” theory. That is so cool, the Planned Economy, where what I want and decide is being achieved, they are doing what I want, my will power is being respected in China, good for them, good little puppies, keep up the good work!
    Now it takes 100 workers a year to make one skyscraper, so to make a million skyscrapers they can easily use 100 million workers, it is completely doable, the workers all come from puny agricultural towns starving to death, they got nothing to lose but their chains. So with 1 million skyscrapers you can put up 50 million homes and offices, each about 100 sqm (no feet system here jose’, this is globalization stuff, not your puny Kansas City hillbillies, but anyways that is around 1,100 sq feet). So that can house 250 million people. But I fathom they could hike it up to 400 million workers and make 4 million skyscrapers, so in a couple of years have made enough real estate to house a billion people: NOW THAT IS WHAT I CALL EXCESS CAPACITY PUT TO GOOD USE, THE TECHNOLOGICAL ECONOMY ACHIEVING ITS REAL POTENTIAL.
    But you say, what about Nature ? Well who gives two c*cks and a d*ck about Nature ? What matters is to achieve, to express yourself, to build, to show that you are dominating, the Mind over Matter is working and producing and achieving real value for your money. We will mine the earth and planets to build skyscrapers, we will make Iron and Steel and Cement in particle accelerators building them atom by atom, we will win and succeed.
    I can’t stand these Greens and Environmentalists and scaredy cats all afraid of manipulating the living daylights out of Nature, always finding something poisonous and bad in every process, you can’t build atomic energy reactors, you can’t build high speed trains, you can’t do this or that and this or that. What c*cks! all in the name of Nature, this phony “False Religion” if I ever saw one (give us back the Catholics and the old Christ, or even the old Christian Fundamentalists with their hell and punishment and all, but please don’t introduce yet another fake religion, another belief system, another set of crappy values). It is their fault we have the economic crisis, we should consume and build like there is no tomorrow, we should build trillions of Skyscrapers, Rockets to Mars, trillions of Malls, buy and throw away like crazy, every 3 years change all furniture and cars, wild crazy consumption, and hose nature, use nature until it no longer exists, since then we will use Mars, and the Sun itself, go on, do it, you can do it, go on.
    The Disasters of a Planned Economy
    I was looking at some of China on google maps and photos and such. It is “beyond pale”, as someone said, they are really building like there is only tomorrow! You can estimate how much excess real estate inventory they already have by a simple thought experiment: the USA has 300 million people, so just imagine to add four extra floors to all homes in the USA to host 1.5 billion. Now look at their towns and cities, most of their buildings have 4 or more floors, but also thousands upon thousands of various high rises, no way they can pull off the excuse of “population”, it just doesn’t hold, they simply have huge excess capacity with no end in sight. And they have so many smaller towns on the outskirts, probably mostly abandoned. Anyways, I guess they will end up hosting the entire world population for free, they already got the Cheap Rents part licked, that is for sure. And they will also give you a free salary since their money and economy is all make believe anyways (but aren’t all economies a fake ?).
    Maybe the Chinese government should start paying itself some serious property tax, can you imagine how much cash they could obtain by printing it and giving it to themselves in the form of property taxes and then flooding the world with their cash ? And also, they will fill all those buildings with literally TRILLIONS OF TVS AND COMPUTERS AND CHUNKS OF FURNITURE!. Wow, the have their “Economic Growth” cut out for themselves for a few hundred years. Also they are building developments in Angola and elsewhere, the whole world will become saturated with high rises and skyscrapers: now that is so cool!
    At least Spain (and USA) had some market economy still going for it, it eventually had to really deal with the invisible hand of the market and they had to stop building (of course they now have an unknown number of empty apartment buildings and homes, maybe a few million ? unknown for now), but in China there is no feedback loop, no invisible hand of the market that will catch up with them, they will just keep on building until they fill the entire country up with buildings, so cool!
    Of course, I fathom most buildings will simply decay and are probably built hastily or whatever, so they build, keep them empty and then they decay all by themselves after a few years, but the cycle can repeat forever.
    Anyways I practically already wrote here the future article of The “Disasters of a Planned Economy”. Talk about Real Estate Bubble..
    Then again, what else can they do ? you got millions of farmers, uneducated, so the only thing they can do is build and build some more. Give them a function they will be happy. So they got nothing better to do but build skyscrapers and buildings and highways and trains, you name it. So this will keep them employed and busy for years on end, we need thousands of trillions of people, to build trillions of skyscrapers first all across the earth and then on Mars and so on. So you all got your work cut out for you, all HARD WORK BABY, build those skyscrapers with your bare hands, build them by the trillions for 24 hours a day for trillions of years.
    Why is Man such a Turd ? Why is he based on such a low class technology like carbon chemistry, DNA and all, so quirky and all wrong, inefficient, hose this technology, change the brain mind, shove wild symbols and chemicals and signals inside new circuits, create a new world a new experience.
    On another note, even with millions educated like in the EU and USA there is little work for them all to do, so imagine without education, but anyways, even in the USA and EU, even the educated should get down to HARD WORK, BABY, and build trillions of skyscrapers with your bare hands, etc. Enough brainy stuff, Information Technology, fluff, services and such, now only real hard concrete stuff with real concrete!

  326. mayday March 7, 2013 at 11:43 am #

    Gary North is an Austrian economist, a disciple of Ludwig von Mises and Murray Rothbard. The Austrian theory of the business cycle appears to explain the reasons why our economy lurches between boom and bust: central banking, the manipulation of credit and fiat money being made legal tender. North preaches that the U.S. will eventually go belly up and default on its obligations. He may be correct.
    North has no problem with inequalities of wealth and power, believing, as he does, that we are all monads free to make our deals in life and our win-or-lose way in the world. He objects to organized coercion (the state) that rules via “badges and guns.” He also objects to the merger of private capital and government, characteristic of fascism, in which monopolies prevent competition by means of political influence as opposed to unfettered price and product competition.He really isn’t a “cornpone Nazi.”
    North writes JK off as a leftist elitist, though I’m not sure why. JK has never struck me as particularly leftist. In some ways, JK and North are not so far apart in their views. I do think that JK has the more accurate vision of the future. The battle for middle class and working class survival has been lost symbolized by the Walmart-ization of so many local communities. The millenials, as they’re called, may turn out to be the first generation of an American peasantry, lacking capital and opportunity in a police state ravaged by material poverty and psychological distress.
    Both JK and North may rightfully say, “I told you so.” Certainly those of you who belong to the millenial generation are wise to try and create survialist communities, not the right-wing, gun-happy kind but communities of pooled resources and mutual aid and assistance.

  327. 79iron March 7, 2013 at 11:47 am #

    From:
    http://instantsingularity1.blogspot.it/
    and
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=182073



    Re: Economic Growth Terminated
    by nameta9 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:23 pm
    Statistics and Numbers (GDP)
    Models, models, language itself, all abstractions, all abstract language creations pretending to correspond to reality, condensing reality into a few logical segments and debating these segments and pretending that you can actually influence reality by talking about it, debating it, by politics and choices and new laws and so forth.
    Aggregations, putting things together and adding them up and making a number that is supposed to imply something, mean somthing, like there are 1 million empty homes in china that means they are headed for a crash and housing bubble. Really ? not really, the numbers can imply anything according to any linear model, models and models all conveniently located within the controlled and comforting environment of your mind, the little world that your mind thinks the world actually corresponds to: nothing further from the truth, those houses are being used as a “Money Store”, are just a “symbol” are just a make believe kind of wealth, most likely they will never be used at all, the most important thing is that the value of those houses remain high, actually, those houses and building exist only as a function of the value they represent, this is something completely different from a housing bubble or price bubble as imagined operating in the EU and USA (and even in these 2 places, houses are mostly proxies for value, for imagined value, are a money store, are simply dollar bills written in bricks, and rarely do the prices go down much, always just a little, especially in the EU). China won’t crash because of this. And then these numbers always overlook all the little details, but it is all of the little details, all of the little decisions each person makes, what each person actually does that creates reality, always a very little reality that doesn’t extend much in space and time and doesn’t ever imply laws, trends or general laws, actually, it is all of the little quirk, random, arbitrary decisions of people doing whatever that breaks down the validity of all numbers and statistics in economics, that breaks down all trends and all theories, macro economic theories always.
    But the mistake is in the numbers adding things up and then using the numbers to mean something else: GDP is the best example, this number was invented in the 1930s, a very short time ago, way too short for the economists to be so Presumptuous to believe that is actually anything more than a little invention, a little make believe device useful to create other imaginary numbers and creations, a new creation, a new construction, a true metaphysical construction mixing the most different things and putting them all in one bag and then dealing with the bag as if it was something real, represented something real and such, and then this new fangled measurement, GDP was invented for the USA and in the 1930s a very specific place and specific time, it is hard to believe that it is valid and can apply for everyplace and all time as they all want to make you believe: this number, GDP, is the result of the huge advances technology made in creating ever higher production levels, jobs, standards of living all happening only in the last 200 years or so, way too little time to be sure that it is a law of nature that will always operate, way too unsure to extrapolate into any future and into any trends.
    Aggregatons, numbers are used constantly in all economic endeavors to then pass as true imaginary trends and laws and making believe that numbers can be converted into other numbers, like for example, the rich have become richer, they now have 80 billion dollars more wealth as compared to a year ago, with that wealth you could hire 400,000 people for 10 years and give them a salary: but you can’t convert one number into another like that even though poltical economy always pretends you can, no one will hire people to do no one knows what, since today the real problem is that no one has any idea what real actual work people should do, is worth doing, what gives any return, what is necessary and all in order to give them a salary, no one has the faintest idea of how to let 400,000 people pass 8 hours a day and how that should correspond to a salary, what manipulations, what input -> manipulation -> output is necessary, brings a profit, brings a return for society or even for other individuals, since very few activities really produce much value anymore, much profit, much gain, the diminishing returns of work and labor in general no matter what. That is maybe why real estate becomes a store for value, keeps its values high, its prices high, it is something everyone could need, it is something that remains, that you can actually use, it is not invisible information that doesn’t make any difference at all, if it is there or not, that can have any value at all arbitrarily according to how you want to value it, artistically, aesthetically, and so forth. And that is why Health Care costs so much: something you could need, something that forces you to use it, hence health care has now become the dominant economic sector of the USA; since all other things obviously have such little value compared to health care, and “education” but education only because you can make believe anything has any value since your education “will make you land that good job” (and then always based on the faith in the future, the hope of the future, you will be hired and get steady raises in the future, this also created all of the debts, since everyone thought that this system of life was a given, something that happend only in the last few decades became a law of nature, something that was an exception and a quirk, a one time fluke of history, and very uncertain if it could continue, became a certainty and created a faith in the future (and student loan debts) that was never really justified).
    Or you could use those 80 billion dollars to build 400,000 houses with cheap rents: but no one will do this since you build to make a profit. But then again, if nothing makes a profit then the rich are better off just keeping that cash, what they actually do, and tell society to go fly a kite, who cares. All of political economy, economists, all politics is always in this mode of adding up billions of dollars here, cutting here, deciding to do something else with those billions of dollars there, constantly converting one thing into another, only tied between eah other through numbers, these numbers are truly fantastic metaphysical devices, converting everything into everything else, connecting everything into everything else, anything can be converted into anything else by their dollar value and such.
    And notice the whole deal with banks, money, billions of dollars here, trillions of dollars there, trillion of dollars of debts and so forth, all of these aggregations, all of these numbers, the unemployment rate, is always the same trick: add up things coming from different sources and things and situations, from so many different people, make it become one number, and then talk on behalf of all of those people using one number, make your personal view and will power correspond to that of millions of people, when this is not true at all: all those people putting money in banks and creating large numbers for banks, creating the billions of dollars, all have different lifestyles, choices, different jobs or no jobs at all, all kinds of disjoint unrelated ways of thinking and doing things, and choices, and decisions, and instantaneous random decisions: this trick of using a single number to represent a complex, infinitely complex reality is what generates debts, and political economies and such. And even the debts, all added up really means adding up so many unrelated, disjoint costs and activities, always adding everything up and putting it into one number.
    We have all been brainwashed by this mode of operation, I have used it millions of times myself: if the US spends a billion here, that money could be used for this or that, if JAPAN now has 1 million people less in population then that corresponds to 300,000 extra homes available, the mode is simple: take any number and convert the value into anytihng else that adds up to the same value: the FED is printing 80 billion dollars a month, you could do anything else worth 80 billion dollars instead of giving it to the banks and so on. But this mode of reasoning is deeply flawed even though hard to see where: take the JAPAN example, yes there are the equivalent of 300,000 homes of extra floor space in the country since the population went down in the last few years, but the floor space is invisible and cannot be aggregated all together, it may be one room on one house, antother bed from a hospital and so many other completely unrelated, disjoint places and items, that there is no way to add them up, to aggregate them in reality, it is just an imaginary construction adding things up pretending that they can be added up and put together, pretending that a trend is going on and that it could represent another excess real estate bubble, when this is impossible (it may even play out in the end as excess real estate and a price crash, but I wouldn’t bet on it).
    But the real reason why all of these additions, aggregations, equivalencies, economic policies are flawed is even simpler: they all suppose that there are no other will powers opposing the aggregations, wanting to do things differently, choosing different aggregations, doing all kinds of things disrupting any kinds of aggregations: so the JAPAN has more rooms available, well guess what now dad can use the new room to put a new fangled stereo in it and so forth, these kinds of things are never considered in economy, in aggregations, in political economy and such.
    Anyways, the bottom line is this: GDP has been around for only a few decades, it is an invention, it doesn’t correspond to any law or truth, it is just a quirk trend that played out in the very recent history of civilization due to huge technological changes and huge advances of standards of living and so forth. We have been in a high standard of living society for not even 80 years, such a short time that no extrapolation is possible at all, we are at the very beginning of a trend or economic development, if there even is a trend or if this “economic growth” trend (or myth?) even continues. It is not normal to live in rich societies, humanity has always lived in poverty, we are in an exceptional situation, a real quirk, a real work in progress without any possible clue of how it will play out, not only in the USA, EU and JAPAN but also in China or Indonesia or Brazil.
    We all got spoiled, we all thought that our present (1970s, 80s, 90s, 2000s ?) standard of living and lifestyle was a given, an absolute, was an established law (and hence we created debts to be paid back for in the future expecting the economy to keep on growing forever, to offer always so many new jobs and possibilities and advances and opportunities and so forth (the idea of having to change the kind of job you do every two years has recently gone out of style, obviously the economists finally saw how absurd such an idea was when most people can’t even figure out what their “first” job type can possibly be!)), but it seemed so only for a few decades of exceptional stability and wealth after the second world war, then so many other disruptive forces started to influence everything, other countries gaining manufacturing capacity, other workers in other countries, technologies disrupting everything, economies of scale, energy prices and changes, and so forth.
    Nothing points to how things will play out, the problem isn’t oil or peak oil or resource scarcity, the problem is much deeper and general: no one knows what work is needed or will be needed and how to organize a society for little work, or how to distribute wealth when so little work is necessary and the only channel to distribute wealth is through work; no one knows how other countries will evolve, like China (building millions of empty homes as a form of cash, instead of dollar bills, buildings ?) no one knows how poor the developed economies can become, how will technology influence all of this and so forth. There is no clue, no one has any answers.
    And then you have the examples of Germany and Scandinavia where “you are not allowed to not work” and the welfare state finds you jobs no matter what, so everyone is employed, but these places are so particular, with such a particular culture, kind of “work ethic” or whatever, and then it would be interesting to see exactly how much of the labor done in these countries really produces anything, any real output given that the standard of living of these very rich northern european countries is only twice as high as the poorer southern countries like Spain and Italy, but anyways, another study of these countries is necessary (and then, if you can even apply these models to cultures and countries and societies with such different customs and ways of doing and mentalities and such, Italy is not Denmark for example no matter what).
    The bottom line is the conflicts, fights, political fights, this constnat drone of information, new information creating debates, controversies, contrasts, conflicts, confrontations, worries, new problems, debates and so forth, but mainly the fights and conflicts are making all of our societies so much poorer than what they really are and could be.
    Will we reach an Infinte Resource Society and colonize the Solar System ? Maybe, but I wouldn’t bet on it, the peak oil doomsters may even be right in the end, who knows…
    spark plug

  328. 79iron March 7, 2013 at 11:48 am #

    From:
    http://instantsingularity3.blogspot.it/
    and
    ape thug
    thug machine
    thug
    88
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    ape stud

  329. Carol Newquist March 7, 2013 at 12:50 pm #

    now only real hard concrete stuff with real concrete!
    ===========
    Yes!!! The excruciating concrete death. You get it. Considering the sentiment of your posts and my bridges to nowhere comment, this Beatles song comes to mind. We need more nowhere men. Janos C. Lee can’t do it by himself, even if he was home-schooled.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfWEPu0w-7w

  330. Julian C. Lee March 7, 2013 at 1:08 pm #

    That’s some excellent White music. Nothing like it.

  331. Janos Skorenzy March 7, 2013 at 1:14 pm #

    Liar. That’s the word you should have used but didn’t. You stupidly used the word Fascism. So your error gave me the chance to hold forth. And the next time you incorrectly use the word Fascism (and you will) you will know how stupid and incorrigible you are. You wont change but others might. You have served me well and I am well pleased.

  332. Janos Skorenzy March 7, 2013 at 1:16 pm #

    Plants like the Beetles and will bend towards the speaker. In contrast, they hate the Rolling Stones and will bend away. Something about the beat they use is anti-life.

  333. Carol Newquist March 7, 2013 at 1:46 pm #

    Ha! The Beatles were so white they had an album described as such. Here’s one of my favorites from the white album. Plants love this one too, especially cannabis.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHD5nd3QLTg

  334. Kyooshtik March 7, 2013 at 2:14 pm #

    Vlad,
    See link below to Op-Ed piece from today’s NYT:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/opinion/coates-the-good-racist-people.html?ref=opinion&_r=0
    Your assignment (challenge), should you decide to accept it, is to write a letter to the editor (and copy the CFN thread) expressing your thoughts on this article.
    Address your email to: letters@nytimes.com
    You must say your piece in 150 words or less and must provide your name, address, and phone number(s).
    Lets see if you can get published. (Note:I have been published in the NYT several times over the years on diverse subjects such as k.d. lang’s “lifestyle” choice, the Clinton/Lewinsky affair, an Op-Ed author’s call to ban boxing, and others.)

  335. Carol Newquist March 7, 2013 at 2:24 pm #

    I fail to see how what the deli employee did was racist. He thought Whittaker shoplifted. The rest is speculation. We could speculate that the employee is a failed actor and hates actors as a result. Therefore, whenever he sees one, he takes the opportunity to strip them of their puffed dignity. It’s not as if actors are immune from shoplifting, afterall. Look at Winona Ryder.
    http://img2-3.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/020604/103057__ryder_l.jpg

  336. Kyooshtik March 7, 2013 at 2:30 pm #

    Vlad,
    It appears you are enamoured with Hugo Chavez based on your comment yesterday that I have linked to. Your comment, in turn, linked to a comment by Nastarana but I have no idea why.
    In any event, below is a link to a NYT editorial concerning Hugo Chavez. When I read it 5 words came to mind: “There is no free lunch.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/opinion/hugo-chavez.html
    With this article in mind perhaps you can explain what it is about the man you like so much.

  337. San Jose Mom 51 March 7, 2013 at 2:57 pm #

    Kyooshtik,
    Thanks for the NYT link. I too, encourage Vlad to respond.
    I suppose I have a gut reaction to black males, especially if they are walking with an alpha swagger and wearing a hoodie. If I am walking in a parking lot, I go out of my way to avoid them.
    Same goes for a white male with a lot of tattoos. I give them plenty of space.
    Some of this caution is based on life experience.
    For example, when I lived in Houston, near Rice University’s “village” I walked or rode my bike to work at Baylor College of Medicine. I recall a group of black males pulling their car over to the side of the road about a half-block ahead of me and just sitting with the car door opened. Maybe it was nothing, but I ran across the street and went out of my way a couple of blocks to avoid them. The women in my office told me I needed to wear a scarf over my blond hair to avoid unwanted attention.
    Women need to be constantly watchful when venturing out.

  338. Janos Skorenzy March 7, 2013 at 3:00 pm #

    Why can’t I just respond to the article in the comments section?
    Oh and as far as Hugo goes, I was being a bit of a gadfly. The guy did stand up to the New World Order and at alot of bad people hated him. But he was no friend of Whites. Like Gadaffi, he was a friend to the downtrodden dark races and wanted to see them triumph. The idea that Whites are being crushed now as well wouldn’t occur to him or probably bother him if it did.

  339. Kyooshtik March 7, 2013 at 3:14 pm #

    Why can’t I just respond to the article in the comments section?
    ===========
    You can, but why not aim for an audience of millions.
    When you see your words in print in The Grey Lady you’re hooked for life.

  340. Janos Skorenzy March 7, 2013 at 3:15 pm #

    Just read the article. What is there to say? The author takes one incident and indicts a whole race of people. Based on crime stats, Whites have every reason to be leery of Blacks. Liberals love feeling guilty and feeling that they are overcoming their original sin of Racism. They beg forgiveness of the “higher races” (Blacks and Jews) and if pardon is granted, they get the booby price of feeling superior to other unrepentant Whites.
    That this is powerful is obvious. Look at newworld – a White Nationalist who still holds Jews above Whites. Or Comradystopia, a Conservative who can’t bring himself to speak out against minorities.
    I would never get published. We only got our books published once internet publishing broke the Jewish embargo against us. Yes, they controlled the Publishing Industry too. You get your letters published because you are part of this Culture and accept its premises. I’m sure you didn’t bring up your secret knowledge about how powerful Jews are or the knowledge of low Black IQ that you finally (after slandering me) checked out after my repeated calls for you to do so.

  341. Janos Skorenzy March 7, 2013 at 3:18 pm #

    The Good Grey Lady? She’s a whore. And Walter Cronkite said, Our job is not to tell the news but mould public opinion. We don’t need these people anymore – we have the new media, which is why they will probably throw the kill switch one of these days.

  342. Janos Skorenzy March 7, 2013 at 3:43 pm #

    Furthermore, I demand that as a show of solidary with the White Race which gave you your Culture, Nation, Goverment and very skin and body, you immediately cancel your subscription.

  343. Carol Newquist March 7, 2013 at 4:06 pm #

    You have a point. Why does Kyooshtik read the New York Times? It’s the same thing as having a subscription to Pravda. If he’s hell-bent on correcting grammar, there are plenty of places to do it than the NYT.
    So, I’m in solidary with you that Kyooshtik should cancel his subscription to the NYT, and instead get a subscription to the Playboy channel and start spilling the remainder of his seed on the ground before he passes from this mortal coil.
    And another thing. I’ve always laughed at people who write to newspapers. I don’t read newspapers or magazines any longer, mainly because it’s the same formulaic propaganda rehashed perpetually, but back in the day, I got a chuckle out of people like Kyooshtik. Why do they bother? Who cares, anyway? Not me. Not anymore.

  344. Jack March 7, 2013 at 4:48 pm #

    Maybe Gary can get his “God” to save us, you know, the same “God” that got him a passing grade in high school economics.

  345. adequatio March 7, 2013 at 5:17 pm #

    That’s some excellent White music. Nothing like it.
    Actually, the Rubber Soul album incorporates soul music styles. Soul music? Oh, yeah, that’s Black music. Soul music combined elements of African American gospel music (Black music) and rhythm and blues (Black music). Whites imitating Blacks.
    The Beatles are indebted to Black musicians. It’s no secret. The Beatles sang covers of The Shirelles, one of the most famous Black girl groups of the ’60s, with songs like Boys … and Baby, It’s You.
    Black musicians played with the Beatles: Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Stevie Wonder, Billy Preston, Michael Jackson, etc. The Beatles learned from the best.
    Without the Black influence the Beatles would have been Nowhere Men.

  346. adequatio March 7, 2013 at 5:34 pm #

    It took 5 1/2 years of economic recovery, wealth recovery, for Americans’ net worth to top the pre-recession peak of $67.4 trillion.
    Surging stock prices and steady home-price increases have finally allowed Americans to regain the $16 trillion in wealth they lost to the Great Recession. As they say: It’s all good.

  347. Julian C. Lee March 7, 2013 at 5:38 pm #

    “Maybe Gary can get his “God” to save us…
    Likely his God doesn’t care a hoot about you. Go find a god of your own, fool.
    “Soul music? Oh, yeah, that’s Black music.
    Please. I much prefer White soul music. Things like “We Can Work It Out,” “Hey Jude,” “I Feel Fine,” and the rest. Penny Lane and Hello Goodbye — are white soul music and I much prefer it.
    “Without the Black influence the Beatles would have been Nowhere Men.”
    You have to be joking. Utterly fantasgamorical. Yeah, that’ why whites of those generations loved the melody-rich, chord-structure-rich Beatles and turned their nose up at black music, which was utterly lacking in most of the European-heritage musicality that is the warp and woof of the Beatles.
    Black elements in the Beatles’ music are so scant as to hardly rise to the word “minor.” You must not know much about music.

  348. Julian C. Lee March 7, 2013 at 5:45 pm #

    “The Beatles sang covers of The Shirelles…”
    Big deal. It’s not the material they were most loved for. By the way, show us the “black Nowhere Man,” inadequatio. Or the “black I am the Walrus,” or the “black original chordstructure” or even the “black interesting chord change.” Show us where a black wrote an original chord progression simply like the opening chords to “If I Fell.” I could go on all day.
    The Beatles were powerful for 1) Original melody (and strong melody), 2) Original, non-repetitive chord structure, 3) Harmony, and very original harmony.
    All of these are White European musical values and all of them are weak factors in black music that preceded them. That’s why Whites were generally disinterested in that black music. There were also no black vocalists who could sound like the lead vocalists of the Beatles.

  349. adequatio March 7, 2013 at 6:12 pm #

    The white Beatles ripped off Black music. Whites in the 1950s and ’60s grooved on original Black rhythm and blues, which evolved into rock ‘n’ roll and changed the world.
    The Beatles are overrated. To me, finer musical experiences are to be had in a rare joint appearance of Bonnie Raitt (“Give It Up or Let Me Go”) and Taj Mahal (“Lovin’ in My Baby’s Eyes”) or Freda Payne (“Band of Gold”) paying tribute to legendary Ella Fitzgerald. Each of these performers skunk the Beatles six ways from Sunday.
    The so-called “Fab Four” were never more than a bad copy of the real thing. Simply put, “Beatlemania” was bogus. The Beatles made their name by ripping off Black music, and were lionized by young whites who had never been exposed to legit harmonizing.
    Didn’t you ever watch Dick Clark’s American Bandstand”? — he showcased the best regardless of color — Black R&B and rock ‘n’ roll performers in those days rarely were on national television. This, despite the fact that excellent groups such as the Ravens, Five Keys, Spaniels, Moonglows, Clovers, El Dorados, Dells, Flamingos and Cadillacs, to name only a few, had been doing it right for years. All would put the Beatles to shame.
    The Beatles were a musical joke. What they were doing was a pale imitation — no pun intended — of countless Black R&B and rock groups.

  350. Julian C. Lee March 7, 2013 at 6:50 pm #

    “The white Beatles ripped off Black music.
    Please.
    Why did everybody want to listen to them and not to the black music which was crappy and non-resonant with Whites by comparison?
    I remember hearing the so-called “seminal” black blues that was so over-credited. My reaction was, “This is it?” Boring, repetitive, no chords, no musical dimension, no tone…
    Black influences were nothing but exotic flecks here and there in the Beatles sky. So John strained and screamed like little Richard a few places. Big deal. His singing was not defined by that, and there is no black version of John Lennon as a singer. So George Harrison bent a few strings a few times. Big deal. His guitar-playing was not defined by a few string-bends and use of the diatonic scale. There is no “black George Harrison” when it comes to guitar, or even close.
    Show us the black “Every Little Thing.” Thing about that song: It’s a world unto itself even in the Beatles songlist; they never wrote any other song like it. So which black song does it sound like? That was one thing about the Beatles: They were highly creative and experimented with many genres as well as creating their own. The typical thing with 3-chord black music is — every song sounds the same.
    You are a joke.

  351. Carol Newquist March 7, 2013 at 6:51 pm #

    And it wasn’t just the Beatles. Many white rockers of that day were inspired by “black” rhythm & blues. Hell, look at Elvis. The blacks would laugh their asses off at him and the white audiences that ranted and raved at his poor rendition of black music. Of course, Elvis mixed the blues up with a little black christian gospel. Since we’re on this topic, how about this for some black christian gospel music. Much better than Elvis.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-42NzUuUlLY

  352. adequatio March 7, 2013 at 7:10 pm #

    Well, whites had to go with Elvis because Blacks didn’t have any original melody, harmony, or complex poly-rhythmic structures according to Julian C Lee.
    Blacks were just musical babes in the woods.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJuEuRCKq1s
    LOL!

  353. Julian C. Lee March 7, 2013 at 7:16 pm #

    “…because Blacks didn’t have any original melody,…
    Indeed, black blues does not stress melodic construction or melodic originality. Just as a blues guitar riffers riffs sound mostly the same, so was their approach to vocal melody. Chiseling out a unique singerly melody — a very difficult thing to do even for Whites, and it is not a black value.
    …”harmony…”
    Indeed, harmony was never a strong feature of black rock’n’roll music, but a fundamental in white music as well as a passion of the Beatles.
    “…or complex poly-rhythmic structures…”
    Whites always make the best drummers, and are the most skilled at real polyrhythms. No doubt. And true, complexity is not something you see in black music. Show us the black Rush.
    Disgusting whites who like to spend all their days, morning till night, fellating negroes.

  354. Carol Newquist March 7, 2013 at 7:22 pm #

    Ha! Whites can’t understand the blues, therefore they can’t create it. They can try to imitate it, but it comes up short most of the time. It’s the music of the beaten and broken. It comes straight from hearts rended by unimaginable pain and sorrow. Plus, those old black blues artists had some great names. Here’s some Lightnin’ Hopkins. Tell me Stevie Ray Vaughan wasn’t inspired by those chords.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWqA1Z4lPHw

  355. Julian C. Lee March 7, 2013 at 7:33 pm #

    The English musical tradition is a singerly tradition, where uniqueness and beauty of melody is the central value. Then comes the harmony facet, also dear to the English ear. Third, distinctive chordal structure/chordal change is a primal value in all White European musical composing.
    These singerly, melodic, and chordal structuring — were easily 80 percent of what the Beatles were. Another 15 percent was their own unique musicality and attitude. Five percent perhaps was influences where we can point to blacks. But it’s a white value, in itself, as world travelers and spacious minds — to love to inculcate many ideas and influences. You can see this in the English language itself.
    But there is no black “Kashmir” (Led Z.)
    And no black “Badge” (Clapton)
    And no black “Tomorrow Never Knows.”
    This could go on and on. It should be pointed out that the Beatles recordings most like old black groups were the least favored by the public. The ones the public loved best were highly original and often had no real precedent, only some identifiable influences such as the English stride piano style in “When I’m 65” or influences of Indian music in “Tomorrow Never Knows.”
    “Turn off your mind, relax, and float downstream…
    It is not dying…”

    Yet show us the Indian musical production like it. Doesn’t exist.

  356. Julian C. Lee March 7, 2013 at 7:36 pm #

    “Whites can’t understand the blues, therefore they can’t create it.”
    Everybody understands depression and moroseness.
    But Whites would far rather listen to Clapton’s “White Room” than Bo Diddly’s repetitive 3-chord howling “I’ll be Rooster You be the Hen” or whatnot.

  357. Carol Newquist March 7, 2013 at 7:41 pm #

    Here’s what happens when whites try to create the blues.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM7SQzq3yHQ
    I’ll take Lightnin’ Hopkins rendition, thanks. After listening to Barry, I now need some Dramamine.

  358. Carol Newquist March 7, 2013 at 7:51 pm #

    If you want to talk about a white group that forged its own unique sound, the Beatles isn’t it. Try Pink Floyd. Not nearly as popular, but they were musician’s musicians. Light years ahead of the rest. Take The GReat Gig In the Sky for example. Brilliance. It was an orgasm put to music. Beautifully done. Don’t listen Janos Curtis Lee. You may chance a stiffy and some semen spillage.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw8wlede_fk
    But tell me don’t hear some black christian gospel coming through? I do.

  359. Kyooshtik March 7, 2013 at 8:00 pm #

    Utterly fantasgamorical.
    =========
    The first hint of dyslexia I’ve detected in Julian’s writing.

  360. Julian C. Lee March 7, 2013 at 8:26 pm #

    It was a typo. Do we have to always say that.

  361. Julian C. Lee March 7, 2013 at 8:35 pm #

    Plus I decided, while attempting to stop the send, that I liked how it looked and that it was funny.
    What happened when Whites touched black blues:
    You Shook Me, Led Z.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMbQQHnshxU
    Big upgrade — to White ears. Though still boring like all 3-chord black blues, at least these White men made it interesting and created something new.
    Note: Stuff like this, though more interesting than the originals, was not what fans of Led Z. liked best about them. There is no black “Immigrant Song”. These were their hits and what people most loved.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqv4sYKlOSM

  362. Julian C. Lee March 7, 2013 at 8:38 pm #

    Pink Floyd is, most certainly, White music. Easy to count the ways.
    “You may chance a stiffy and some semen spillage.
    You don’t have to tell us so much about your life.

  363. San Jose Mom 51 March 7, 2013 at 8:40 pm #

    I’m in agreement with you about Pink Floyd. Several of them(Waters for sure) were architecture students and a professor knew they were somewhat musical. He needed some background music for a installation and that’s how it started.
    I saw Roger Waters last spring in San Francisco when he performed “The Wall.” Sublime.

  364. Julian C. Lee March 7, 2013 at 8:53 pm #

    “…the Beatles isn’t it.”
    There are all kinds of White groups, Ms. Pornquist.
    “Try Pink Floyd.
    I was listening to Pink Floyd long before they had any American hit and a many years before you were born, Pornquist. They have had many phases, only later becoming more melodic.
    “Not nearly as popular, but they were musician’s musicians…
    Yada yada. In what manner? Their skills were more on the production side.
    Light years ahead of the rest.
    Pink Floyd can never rank with the Beatles for musical groundbreaking. They have a niche. Even their best lead guitar solos owe most to good tube saturation and effects. Their real gift is as composers.
    “Take The GReat Gig In the Sky for example. Brilliance.
    I remember listening to this on my drummer’s stereo outside our high school when I was 18. He was all excited about it. I thought it was funny that he was suddenly into Pink Floyd and didn’t know anything them up to this album. They had been very different up to that album. He was a black guy, also.
    The histrionic Whitney Houston-style singer gets old after a few listens. (That’s why he referenced that song.) And I always hate it when songwriters let their peculiar point-of-view as professional musicians creep into their lyrics. But yeah, a lot of creativity and musicality there and nothing to do with black bluesmen. The quality of Dark Side of the Moon is dreamy, sleepy. Whites excel at dreamy/sleepy into-the-void music and are highly interested in both making such music and listening to it. I hear that kind of stuff continuously — new stuff — in the Portland Coffee shops (even right this moment) — and it’s all created by Whites. We even invented the spring reverb etc.

  365. Kyooshtik March 7, 2013 at 8:57 pm #

    It was a typo. Do we have to always say that.
    ===========
    Well of course it was a typo…but why?
    Dyslexia.

  366. Kyooshtik March 7, 2013 at 9:09 pm #

    All these silly arguments…what’s better, black music or white?
    Music shmusic. Here’s what’s important:
    Ask young black kids what they want to be when they grow up and they’ll say “I want to be a basketball player” or “I want to be a rock star.”
    Ask white kids the same question and they’ll answer “I want to be an orthodontist” or “I want to be a forensic accountant.” ;o)

  367. Julian C. Lee March 7, 2013 at 9:25 pm #

    By the way, when my drummer was cranking up the nouveau Pink Floyd on his Impala car stereo it was 1974. In that album ripening songwriters Waters/Gilmour met up with some production sense. My brothers hated it and thought it was a sellout.
    Kyooshtik: “All these silly arguments…
    Kyooshtik: “Well of course it was a typo…but why?”
    “what’s better, black music or white?
    White. It contains all the rest, and and is an accommodating and elegant substrate. Structure, melody and harmony is a vast mansion. The White musical heritage is like a great kingly bed of quadruple mattresses and embroidered sheets, can easily accommodate musical adornments and spices from many cultures, making them themselves greater.
    It was by striving within a White musical standard that Stevie Wonder became a truly great composer.
    Sample: Jai Uttal’s “Never Turn Away.”
    ________
    Ms. Pornquist brought up the Beatles.
    I used it to addle it.
    Ms. Pornquist brought up Pink Floyd.
    I used it to addle it.
    Ms. Pornquist is out of his depth.
    What’s better? Honest posters? Or black males posing as white women?

  368. Kyooshtik March 7, 2013 at 9:27 pm #

    The Good Grey Lady?
    ==========
    No “Good” Vlad, simply The Grey Lady.
    There was much wrong with that NYT Op-Ed on racism and I figured if anybody could produce a worthy retort it would be you, Vlad, but you let me (us) down.

  369. anti soak March 8, 2013 at 12:23 am #

    What happened to discussions of Peak Oil?

  370. anti soak March 8, 2013 at 12:28 am #

    What happened to Peak Oil discussion?

  371. Janos Skorenzy March 8, 2013 at 1:41 am #

    It’s your paper, your medium, your stomping ground – let’s hear that rebuttal from You. Or are you afraid your old friends will call you a racist?

  372. 79iron March 8, 2013 at 3:17 am #

    Normal ?
    Look at how many changes have occurred in only 100 years: the family structure is completely different (especially in the EU and JAPAN!), many have only one child, others have none at all, many couples can’t even conceive, sometimes the only child has so many aunts and uncles (so to say) that never had kids, so they grow up in such a special – particular environment: compare this to 100 years ago when the families (mostly farmers) were way larger, mom stayed at home, babies died earlier, moms died fast when expecting and so many other changes in just the family structure, such as so many divorces, or many people marry many times in a lifetime, or don’t marry at all, and then some kids may have many moms, 2 dads, queer dads, no moms and dads, and all kinds of crazy combinations and so forth, all changing, all a flux, nothing stable, single parents, everything out of control or unknown or like a continuous experiment, how to experiment with all kinds of “family” structures, if the word “family” can even be used and such.
    BUt even this was due to that very “Not Normal” time when technology and the modern era started kicking in and changing everything, eveything got changed very quickly, in only a few decades, people went from farming to office jobs and such, studying became common place, so many changes in such a short time is not normal, entire industries hiring millions in cars and jets and TVs and so forth, all of a sudden in such a short time along with all the other corresponding changes, we went from backwards to forwards in a jiffy: and this is not normal. We are still trying to catch up psychologically with all of these rapid changes (and JHK and his freinds are still fighting TV and cars, still fighting technologies that came out 60 years ago), we still can’t even figure out what happened, work disappearing and we still use the factory model of 8 hours a day, something totally ridiculous, the entire idea of steady marriage and family and normal mom and dad is no longer even present – sure, it is always being criticized by all of the queers and such.
    And don’t even get me started on all of the other deep changes, atom bombs, relativity, quantum mechanics discovered, freud, a never ending array of theories, science, ideas, research in so many areas, the information society (or age ?) with a glut of never ending information and so forth (and then the counterculture, rock, hippies, drugs), everyone had to get a college degree, the past was done and over with, now we were all headed towards the future, space exploration and so forth. And at the same time the parents of kids expected and expecting them to follow their same path, go to college, get married, have two kids, work for a large company at a steady job, mom at home and so forth, when this model only lasted at most 30 years and was due to such a particular moment in history when the USA was a manufacturing giant, mom could stay at home since dad got paid enough to support them and so on: compare that to today, when jobs are not only unsecure, but no one even knows what jobs must be done, the future is all uncertain, the 1950s and 1960s model broke forever and so forth.
    The mistake is that of thinking that changes are normal (hence all the emphasis on innovation and research, they expect a constant stream of life changing technologies to keep on coming online forever, hiring millions when this was a truly unique, exceptional time in history, a one time quirk that has expired is finished, has lost its drive and can’t happen again all over): it was not normal, it is not normal, it was a one time quirk with all of the changes happening simultaneously, changing everything, the very first time a consumerist cvilization and society appeared on earth, the USA was and still is the only real consumerist society, and the model of the USA was supposed to be imitated by other countries, but no one ever really matched and imitated the USA, other countries all ended up wanting to export their goods instead of consuming them, and then the USA was a new experiment, the first time factory workers and normal workers were actually paid a decent salary exactly to make them consume all the goods being produced, and the entire structure of the USA was (and still is) geared to consuming and buying, big box stores, malls, large homes, 2 car garages, wide open spaces and so forth, all things that no other country could ever create: but especially the USA was the very first society to completely change the culture and pyschology and mentality of millions of people away from a scarcity, poverty, save your cash and poverty – insecurity model (still operating in most of the world – and why home prices are so high in the rest of the world, all insecure people saving and loading up home prices as a storage for money instead of consuming, just look at how little JAPAN and Germany consume, they all want to export, they all have puny little homes and don’t want to consume like crazy with 2 car garages, big box stores, malls and so forth) to a happy go lucky, the future will always be better consumption model.
    BUt none of this was and is normal, it was just a lucky break, an exception: and now we are at the end of the road of this great illusion, now we are at the end of this growth model, but there never was a model in the first place, something that has happened in only the last few decades can’t be considered a model at all, can’t be expected in the future, a past play of forces – configuration of forces and effects can’t be expected to keep on playing out in the future, you can’t invent “economic laws” based on such a short period of time, especially considering how many effects and changes occured in that period, the mistake and idea that that short time was normal, was a given, the taking for granted that modern was achieved, is achieved forever, can only keep on going up, the entire idea of GDP as a new law, a fundamental law, when the entire phenomea the economists were looking at was a one time experiment, that never happened in the past and will never happen again the future: it is not normal to live in workless societies and rich societies, none of this is normal, and it is all something that has been around for only a few decades.
    Stagnation is normal, poverty is normal, or very slow and little changes is normal, and in fact most of humanity and civilization has lived in slowly changing stagnating societies (but the mistake is calling something normal “stagnating”, when in all truth it is growth that is not normal and stagnation is just the normal ways of things, slow changes and little changes is the normal way of things, bored societies that need some action every now in then in the form of wars, or dictators or violence o whatever to break the monotony).
    We will probably enter a long period of Stagnation, slow changes, some places will keep on getting richer up to a certain point (like China) but only up to the point that they can change their mentality into a consumerist mentality which I doubt will happen, these are deep cultural – psychological changes needed, only happened once in history and in the USA from 1930 to 1970, I doubt that it can happen again anywhere else, other places like Southern Europe will become poor again, India will remain the crap it is, and so forth, this expectation and hope that the emerging BRICS can really pull off a society like the USA is doomed, won’t happen, they will increasingly buy cell phone and cars and other things, but they won’t get any further than Spain and will find themselves as Spain is today in the end.
    Although this is an ongoing experiment of worldwide industrialization, no one knows what climate change effects all the pollution and activity can have and will have (along with antibiotics, viruses and so forth), no one is sure of anything like peak oil and such, I don’t expect extremes, I don’t expect neither collapse like JHK hopes or rockets to mars either, we will probably have something in the middle, some places going up some going down, the statistical flukes will average out to a middle ground of low middle class life across most of the world, like 700 dollars a month salary, most jobs will disappear, most people won’t be in pain but won’t be in great pleasure either, most of the world will “stagnate” even though this concept is wrong: most of the world will return to normal again, and we better hope so otherwise probably more crazy and worst things could happen: wars, dictators, violence, who knows. Technology may or may not go forward, I am not at all sure of this.
    spakr plug
    spark plug

  373. 79iron March 8, 2013 at 4:29 am #

    Correction:
    ” … And at the same time the parents of kids expected and expecting them to follow their same path, go to college, get married, have two kids, work for a large company at a steady job, mom at home and so forth, when this model only lasted at most 30 years and was due to such a particular moment in history when the USA was a manufacturing giant, mom could stay at home since dad got paid enough to support them and so on: compare that to today, when jobs are not only unsecure, but no one even knows what jobs must be done, the future is all uncertain, the 1950s and 1960s model broke forever and so forth.
    The mistake is that of thinking that changes are normal …”
    More precisely: the mistake was in thinking that that lifestyle was normal, would continue forever (no one seemed to notice how new it was, that it was only around for a few decades, that is was all very iffy, given how many things could change and happen and given the history of humanity), when it was due to a set of converging forces and a configuration of forces, technology, international division of labor situation (the only industrialized areas were the USA and then the EU and JAPAN) that made that lifestyle possible; thinking and planning and expecting – the expectations – that the future will be like the present and even better (hence you can make all the debts you want, the future will go forward, things will always improve, I will get a raise and a better job and so forth), that lifestyle was eternal, it was always going to be like this, we will always need to go to college, land a steady job (only to hear corporations and economists and politicians start chanting and complaining that you need to change type of jobs every 2 years, you will need constant training and ever more education, you will need to “hone” your skill set, and change your skill set constantly given all the new fangled technology that will come online and so forth: but all of these excuses were a kind of rationalization to try to explain why jobs weren’t be created at the rate the economist, the optimistic economists expected (it was always the workers fault), as if having full employment is a given, is natural and normal, is even necessary (it should be the other way around, a progressing society that is going towards the future should really need less and less work and jobs and such: many jobs needed means many problems needing to be solved, means we are not “pregressing” but going backwards, we’re not being “productive” or “efficient” and such), there will always be so many jobs, all based on innovation and new tecnhology and new things and opportunities and so forth. Nothing further from the truth. Actually the truth is always nothing further from the truth.
    But actually it is no jobs and not working that is the normal situation, jobs and the need to work is the exception, most of humanity has always been unemployed so to say, jobs were few since jobs and the need to do something was and really still is an exception, although everyone has this model believing that having millions of people going to work everyday is normal, when it is another exceptional quirk, another of those truly exceptional situations that paradoxically the technological economy enforced first by producing them in manufacturing, then by eliminating them, but societies had to invent the services sector to create the appearance of jobs (and so many jobs are mostly appearances, rituals, customs, make it look like you are working but not really producing anything (financial gimmicks are a product ?) and such) in order to distribute cash that wouldn’t be distributed since there would be no reason to distribute it: bottom line, jobs are mostly make believe, it is not normal for societies to have millions of workers and jobs, societies probably need very few workers in only a few sectors end of story, this is another fairy tale of expectations, the job creation myth, the full employment myth and so forth, all based on some magical “economic law” that the economists discovered in the last few decades, when there is no such law (and even women started to enter the workforce, go figure).
    spark plug

  374. 79iron March 8, 2013 at 4:34 am #

    http://instantsingularity3.blogspot.it/
    88
    88
    8
    8
    8
    888

  375. Janos Skorenzy March 8, 2013 at 5:28 am #

    It’s peak peak oil discussions. Consider it a bell curve. The decline is at first slow and then rapidly becomes steep enough to make tea with.

  376. Carol Newquist March 8, 2013 at 5:59 am #

    Kyooshtik is passive aggressive, and enjoys his racism vicariously via rabid racists like you and your sock puppet, Julian Semen Lee. I think I see his point. If the numb nut who typed the op ed piece wants to see a real racist, Kyooshtik will show him one by goading you into typing an absurd, foaming-at-the-mouth, rebutting rant, thus countering the op ed author’s dilution of REAL racism.

  377. Carol Newquist March 8, 2013 at 6:16 am #

    Another excellent post, but you know you are addressing a brainwashed audience. People like Kyooshtik are so far behind, or sideways, in their thinking, they still believe that Castro and the Cuban revolution are evil. They fail to see why the Cuban people would revolt. They believe the Cuban people were hoodwinked, or forcibly coerced by a clever and sadistic psychopath. They cannot give any credit to the Cuban people, just as Batista never did.
    I had to laugh at NPR yesterday, or was it BBC? They were discussing North Korea and nuclear weapons capability, but added the caveat that the North Korean leadership has been living a life of unabashed opulence whilst a significant segment of their society lives in abject poverty. I screamed at the radio. Hello!! That’s different from the West in what way? Are you people that blind? The elite of North Korea cannot even begin to understand or approach the opulence in the West, even though it attempts to emulate it. Yet another pot-kettle-black moment from the fine, upstanding, impartial and objective folks at public radio USA.

  378. 79iron March 8, 2013 at 6:18 am #

    Correction 2:
    “More precisely: the mistake was in thinking that that lifestyle was normal, would continue forever (no one seemed to notice how new it was, that it was only around for a few decades, that is was all very iffy, given how many things could change and happen and given the history of humanity), when it was due to a set of converging forces and a configuration of forces, technology, international division of labor situation (the only industrialized areas were the USA and then the EU and JAPAN) that made that lifestyle possible; thinking and planning and expecting – the expectations – that the future will be like the present and even better (hence you can make all the debts you want, the future will go forward, things will always improve, I will get a raise and a better job and so forth), that lifestyle was eternal, it was always going to be like this, we will always need to go to college, land a steady job (only to hear corporations and economists and politicians start chanting and complaining that you need to change type of jobs every 2 years, you will need constant training and ever more education, you will need to “hone” your skill set, and change your skill set constantly given all the new fangled technology that will come online and so forth: but all of these excuses were a kind of rationalization to try to explain why jobs weren’t be created at the rate the economist, the optimistic economists expected (it was always the workers fault), as if having full employment is a given, is natural and normal, is even necessary (it should be the other way around, a progressing society that is going towards the future should really need less and less work and jobs and such: many jobs needed means many problems needing to be solved, means we are not “pregressing” but going backwards, we’re not being “productive” or “efficient” and such), there will always be so many jobs, all based on innovation and new tecnhology and new things and opportunities and so forth. Nothing further from the truth. Actually the truth is always nothing further from the truth.”
    But the powers that be, the economists, corporations and so forth can actually force the truth to be what they want, can program the truth, create the truth by forcing things to abide to models no matter what, to go in a certain direction according to the model they always chant about and such by sheer force: if they say the economy will need a million programmers and then they all agree to hire them just to make the model become true, just to actually instantiate the truth, invent and create a truth, then as usual, there is no truth, only truths and models and expectations that are arbitrarily chosen and then forced to be without any justification: a language that becomes a command language, from describing something, from saying what the objective truths are to actually programming that truth to become such in reality, also by brainwshing everyone of this truth, and then making the truth become real and such. And this can be done in so many areas, issues, politics, governments, choices and so forth, without anyone noticing, but who cares, if it works, it doesn’t matter if you notice, a truth that comes about through a command language, programmed by a command language (or even by customs, behaviors, rituals, whatever) is indistinguishable from an objective truth revealed externally from the system, but since society and man and such is the system looking at itself, describing itself, programming itself, it is also the system programming itself, inventing itself, creating and reinforcing its own truths.
    ape head

  379. 79iron March 8, 2013 at 7:27 am #

    Normal 2
    So then anything is normal or nothing is normal, like a fork wanting the whole world for all time and space to be like itself, but then is surprised to see a pebble, something different and unexpected and so it is with all, all details, random, quirks, flukes trying to impose themselves as normal, as laws, as things how they are supposed to be instead of them being just random configurations having no cause and lasting any amount of time, just because for no reason at all. And all of the models that pretend and impose a normality upon reality are really just wishful thinking, expectations, expectations destined to be betrayed by reality doing anything it wants, no one is in control of reality in the end no matter how hard you try to brainwash yourself of it, there is no theory of reality, no science or theory at all.
    So then what is normal ? well, normal doesn’t exist, only details exist, only point like random, casual chaotic details that don’t mean anything exist, like a configuration of pebbles on the ground, such are societies and economies, just a random configuration that can last a day, a year or a million years, it doesn’t matter it doesn’t imply any large scale theories or plans or any deep natural laws and so on. Everything is an absolute truth, every quirk detail is a master plan absolute truth (all human lives are just a sequence of casual and random details not meaning anything, but meaning some kinds of absolute truths for the life in question) or a meaningless quirk, take your choice: the economists took the time frame of 1870 to 1940 and considered that time in the space (place) of the USA as an absolute truth, as an invariant pattern as a repetitive pattern that becomes a scientifc law of truth, when they were just making it all up, it was just a random invention not meaning anything but becoming this absolute – almost religious truth of “Economic Growth” as the measurement of all things economical and political and so on.
    Don’t take anything seriously, everyone is taking everyone else for a ride. And people struggle to abide to false truths invented by others but never really analyzed since any analysis will unmask how inconsistent all of these truths are.
    As if anyone really knows anything, anyone really has a real scientific theory of the economy, society or politics: what a joke don’t take anything or anyone says seriously, no one knows anything, they just make believe that some causes and causes and effects exist and that some large scale models are operating in reality (simply repeating what they always heard others repeat, all copy cats), when it is all a commad language, all hiding hidden agendas to pass some laws, or to make people behave and do things and believe in things (like the faith in college education landing you a good job forcing you to take the student loan that you will find in the end that you can’t pay back) and so on.
    And all the models and scientific – economic truths are all based on a few decades of a particular society (the USA) in such a particular time (the 19, 20th century when technology was advancing hugely) and assigning them as economic laws, laws of nature, economies naturally grow by 2 or 3 percent a year, forever (when then in the end most growth was probably due to population increases more than anything else, and life spans increasing because of advances in medicine, and better sanitation and mass produced food by mechanized agriculture making food cheap and so forth).
    we are just a sequence of details without any cause or effects or models or truths and so are societies…
    Now generate ever more information and concepts and ideas, glut the internet with more blocks of texts, the memory is free…
    ape spark
    plug thug

  380. Carol Newquist March 8, 2013 at 8:26 am #

    Here’s a Batista Cuban bullying an 82 year old black woman for singing on the Miami Metro train. What a thug. I bet he’s a Led Zeppelin fan.
    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/old-woman-dragged-off-train-singing-171035494.html
    I’m sure the doofus guest columnist for the NYT can tell us how this was racism.

  381. 79iron March 8, 2013 at 8:46 am #

    From:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=182116
    “OK, so what do you want to discuss? It sounds like you’re just elaborated a lot on stating the obvious.
    I’d give you an A for a paper, but there’s not much room for expansion.”
    Just glut the internet with information, fill up all the memory of the internet with a never ending stream of concepts, ideas, be a hog, who cares, what is there to discuss anyways ? I am 100 % right on everything, I win always, I am always right, I always win, I am always wrong, I always lose, I can say anything and the opposite, who cares, I am god, the ultra god, I am the winner, what else can I say, how can god discuss anything ? he made eveything so…
    Writing on blogs, forums is the closest thing to talking to yourself: the strangest thing, you are talking to yourself essentially and everyone else is also talking to themselves and replying to ghosts and such. The information is thrown in the wind, who knows where it goes, what mind it can influence or not, what intractable cause and effect it can generate, the most abstract thing, almost invisible.
    What happened to joanne ? what else did she do ? you have permission to scribble on JHK’s blog, keep on writing your book, at least we can read something…
    ape thug

  382. 79iron March 8, 2013 at 8:52 am #

    That was from Reply to Daktoria
    From:
    http://instantsingularity1.blogspot.it/
    and
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=182116

  383. 79iron March 8, 2013 at 8:54 am #

    8 man, a thugs tobor the robot

  384. Kyooshtik March 8, 2013 at 10:09 am #

    Here is one of my favorite pool shooting scenes, Forest Whitaker in The Color of Money. He out-hustles the hustler and then as he’s packing up his cue to leave subtly twists the knife with an irrelevancy: “You mind if I ask you a question? Do you think I need to lose some weight?”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7U6d6u2i2Y

  385. 79iron March 8, 2013 at 11:44 am #

    All models of reality end up being false, so nothing new about GDP.
    So why are you worshipping your pain ? your expectations didn’t happen ? your model and model of the future has been denied, has been demolished ? well then you are fighting your own mind and your own models, the mind tortures itself with expectations of the future, how things will be, all kinds of dreams and movies of the future, plans, projects, this and that, when it is only random chaos reality deciding what will be, and then you are angry, or sad and mourn and worried and you worship your own pain, you worship the fact that your model was false, was denied, was contrasted, contradicted and such. But we are hard wired to be like this, maybe it has something to do with religion, nay, with logic and language, the moment you saw that you could control little things, you started to believe you could control larger things, things that extend in space and time, the future, other people and their berhaviors, health, what other people do, that you could control other people’s will power, have influence on them, convince them to do this or that and then you fought people and you hoped, hoped for the future, but it is all in vain, sooner or later your models will be demolished, any model, any hope and future, no matter how sure you think you are and such. But then exactly because so many models work out to be and work, that you get carried away believing that all your ideas and hopes and models and expectations and plans and so forth will play out like you think, and when they don’t you just fight yourself, you worship your pain. The mind tortures itself thinking about it over and over again, the logic denied, always looking for a reason, why, why, who is to blame, I’ll get back at you or something in the end and so forth, the expectations denied like a son who died in a war and all kinds of similar things. So hose this architecture of man brain, design a new one…
    8 thugs, 8 MAN

  386. Kyooshtik March 8, 2013 at 12:58 pm #

    I probed a little deeper at the on-line comments section of the NY Times to see what, if anything, had appeared concerning the Forest Whitaker racism Op-Ed piece. I was astonished to find 594 comments and all but a few written under anonymous screen names. I didn’t know anonymity was permitted (it is NOT permitted in letters submitted for publication in the hardcopy newspaper) and I will have to look into how this is done.
    None of the smattering of these 594 comments that I read even suggested that Forest Whitaker and the Harvard professor, Henry Louis Gates Jr., were as much the victims of their own race’s reputation for criminality as victims of white racism. No one mentioned the utter impracticality of only judging persons as individuals once you “got to know them.”
    For decades nuns by the station-wagon load have been assumed pure as the driven snow for no better reason than their black habits and association with a particular group. Profiling is as natural as breathing.
    Vlad, unless you enjoy the role of turd in the punch bowl it is just as well you did not accept my challenge to write to the Times.

  387. Carol Newquist March 8, 2013 at 1:06 pm #

    Yes, I admit I misspelled Whitaker earlier. I wasn’t able to sleep last night as a result. Now, I would like you to admit that you misspelled Kramer, and that it is a trend for you to misspell Seinfeld characters. Once you do that, can you explain to us why you do it.
    That being said, I have reread the guest columnist piece you linked to at the NYT, and the entire argument is illogical. In fact, it’s not an argument at all. One thing is clear, this putz is a classist, in that he implies that black people who have made it should be treated with the respect deserved them, not because they are human beings, but because they have made it, meaning if you haven’t made it, regardless of whether you’re white or black, no respect needs to be afforded or expected.
    Indeed, a significant portion of his op ed is devoted to the professional accomplishments of Whitaker, the point being that everyone should know this is a famous actor and should recognize him as such. The line of reasoning, if you can call it reason, is that this low-level deli employee, who has obviously not made it, would have recognized Whitaker, and yet he still chose to accuse Forest of shoplifting, so he must have profiled him because he was black, professional accomplishments be damned.
    I don’t dislike Forest Whitaker, but despite this author’s depiction of the actor’s resume, Forest is not necessarily outstanding, so it doesn’t hold that everyone would recognize him. The point being, the fact that Whitaker is an accomplished actor has nothing to do with this and never should have been brought up by the author. It renders this op ed piece a non sequitur, and by proffering this, the author does a disservice to all those past and present who have truly come face to face with, and experienced, REAL racism. He should be ashamed, and so too should the apologists in the comments section per that link.
    And finally, what the hell is this guy thinking visiting this deli three times daily? What? Considering the sentiment behind the Affordable Healthcare Act, this dolt just implicated himself as living an unhealthy lifestyle, therefore, he should be required to pay higher premiums for his conscious choice to clog his arteries and the arteries of his family. If we’re going to penalize smokers, we need to penalize those who eat out all the time, especially those who eat at delis.

  388. Janos Skorenzy March 8, 2013 at 1:35 pm #

    One Black guy at the very begining disagree a bit saying that he knew about the crime statistics. And Carol has a good point too: as if the author expects everyone to recognize Mr Whitaker when in fact, he looks like alot like alot of other Blax.
    Are you assuming that the comments section is free? Unwatched? Unedited? Uncensored? I bet it isn’t….Let us know if you find out. Try posting a Vlad type post and see what happens.
    Blacks apparently go further back than other races, although previously it was thought they were younger. The answer seems to be both: the young race of Blacks committed the Original Sin and mated with more primitive races of men – dooming themselves forever.
    http://shadowness.com/file/item3/58292/image.jpg

  389. Janos Skorenzy March 8, 2013 at 2:40 pm #

    And what is wrong with racism again? Is it still wrong even if it true? Or is, as a European Judge said, the Truth is no defence? And if say Blacks are less intelligent, is it wrong to admit they are? If so, your morality has no relation to reality. Do you think that’s alright? What value, other than hypocrisy and self righteousness, does such a morality have?

  390. Carol Newquist March 8, 2013 at 3:01 pm #

    Carol has a good point too: as if the author expects everyone to recognize Mr Whitaker when in fact, he looks like alot like alot of other Blax.
    =========
    I know you know this, but that wasn’t my point. It’s to be expected of you. The only way you agree with anyone is when you twist their words to your own scummy ends.
    The deli worker may not have been a movie buff, and if not, he most likely wouldn’t have recognized Forest Whitaker. I don’t agree with the op ed’s author, and I don’t agree with you.
    By the way, how shrewd of you to use the word “even” per your quoted sentence below.

    Is it still wrong even if it true?

    Obviously, you left out the word “were.” But you’re right, it’s not true, so it’s moot. Culture, on the other hand, is another thing entirely. It’s about behavior shaped by environment, not so much hereditary genes.

  391. Bustin Jay March 8, 2013 at 3:24 pm #

    Global warming is accelerating, obviously responding to the following forcings:
    -The destruction of rainforest in South America and Africa, mostly by burning, which is tracked by NASA, showing up as hotspots on infared and by clouds of smoke
    -The clearing and poisoning of land for massive agricultural projects, proceeding apace all over the world in order to satisfy the outsize needs of 7 billion, including about a billion people in emerging economies. (For example, several hundred thousand newly-middle class Chinese responded to a survey where 80% had decided they’d like to have a piece of elephant ivory carved into a figurine, leading to the mass slaughter of elephants over the last 10 years.)
    -The rapid heating of formerly locked-down permafrost regions in the northern hemisphere, increasing the CO2 loading of the atmosphere.
    My prediction is that this summer, we’ll see temperature regimes not seen in 10,000 years. We’ll see acceleration of oil and gas extraction, not slowing. We’ll see acceleration of aquifer depletion.
    And we’ll see an increase in the energy expended by people in a bizarre attempt to ignore it.
    The News sources will feature more information, but since it is bad, it will be selectively ignored by the mass of people who, in America, will continue to be preoccupied with their own minuscule horizons. They will wander forward in a fog of positivist delusions, intellectual and emotional prejudices, and, in the case of our domestic fleet of ’78 Cutlass Supremes masquerading as human beings, drive hard and consume as much sugar and petroleum as they possibly can.

  392. Bustin Jay March 8, 2013 at 3:43 pm #

    Axiom: the simpler the model, the more accurate (but still a simulacrum).
    So, take for instance
    http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/
    where a single variable is tracked, namely, the concentration of CO2 in the air at a single place in Hawaii.
    The resulting graph is the model upon which much of what passes for the civilization’s sensory system when dealing with the reality of discrete molecules in our atmosphere.
    The graph is based on data which is generated by equipment whose operation follows a protocol that is designed to eliminate bias or error.
    What this graph is showing is that CO2 concentration is accelerating, from about 1-2ppm/yr to about 2-3ppm/yr.
    Since other models of future climate forcing (that is, an analysis of the physical parameters which “force” some attribute of the climate, in the case of Global warming, the mean average temperature in most cases) the resulting models must be changed.
    The picture that is being painted by the data indicates that the worst-case scenarios predicted are actually conservative; that the eventual scenario will be actually worse than that.
    What this means is not that we should discredit all models, but sit up and pay attention to the fact that carbon in the atmosphere may turn out to be subject to feedback-loop phenomena which may take the concentration of carbon on an exponential rise.
    Understanding exponential growth, as history has shown, has proven to be difficult for most people. It is not at all intuitive to grasp that what now may be incremental and marginal may become terrifyingly absolute and unrelenting. Imagine the midwest baking in 120F. Imagine the wholesale famine of populations and refugee flight from areas subject to such withering drought that they simply waste and burn. Imagine not too soon afterward the human population severely truncated and driven to the margins of a devastated planet scoured by super-storms, and unpredictable, sudden cycles of hot and cold.

  393. Kyooshtik March 8, 2013 at 3:50 pm #

    My prediction is that this summer, we’ll see temperature regimes not seen in 10,000 years.
    ============
    The NYT today has this article on pg A15:
    Global Temperatures Highest in 4,000 Years
    “Global temperatures are warmer than at any time in at least 4,000 years, … and over the coming decades are likely to surpass levels not seen on the planet since before the last ice age.” etc. etc.

  394. stelmosfire March 8, 2013 at 4:18 pm #

    Howdy Q, I was a white kid and I wanted to be a FIREMAN! Hey, wait a minute. I was a FIREMAN, for 33 years. Now what am I supposed to do? Ima gonna half ta get a real job! I just hope they let me take a nap in the Lazy-Boy after lunch! Maybe I can get a job as a greeter at the new Super-Duper Walfart in town. :o) I dodged a bullet today, 24″ of snow about 30 miles east, 1″ here.

  395. 79iron March 8, 2013 at 4:50 pm #

    Progress Terminated
    It used to be easy to recognize progress: cars got better between 1950 and 1980 or so, planes went from propeller to jets and so forth, TV went color, you could easily feel and enjoy and see progress. Now the progress is so indirect, vague, hard to pinpoint down (it is all based on invisibles like “air bags” or “electronic stability” and any other hosts of acronyms that are hard to see or feel or pinpoint down and so forth (if they are even present, if it is not all a hoax), the very idea that I have to know what operating system a smartphone has is so indirect, vague, abstract: who the heck cares! I just need some functions, end of story) all software, rituals, people based, fashion based things, I don’t know, I am not convinced.
    SO I was looking at Windows 8 and Word 8 and comparing it to what MS put out 15 years ago, Windows 95 and the old Word program: the older ones are way better, faster, clearer to understand, the menus are easy to spot, intuitive and so forth (in the newer Words menus can “disappear” and such, who the heck that idea ! so stupid!). Anyways the theory seems to go that if you can’t go forward, if you cannot progress, than go backwards, regress technology. Really, how the heck is it possible that MS with all their cash and high tech brightest students hired have mostly gone backwards, have made no improvements at all but have worsened everything and gone way backwards in all of this technology and not forward ? it is beyond bold ! or is it exactly because they have the brightest, and they are all working hard, so hard that they go backwards instead of forwards, that they go in the opposite direction in the end. So maybe MS needs a lot fewer programmers, smaller programs and so forth, too many people just botch up everything.
    And don’t get me started that it is controversial: if something is better or worse according to taste, preferences, artistic choices, then there is no discernible progress, progress is terminated, is over, undefined, it is all choices, decisions, software and people stuff, the soft stuff, politics, office politics, legal fights, standards, all kinds of complicated where progress is no longer the issue, now it is all politics and fights and such, you can’t really see distinct and clear progress anymore, it is all so indirect, abstract, requires so many extra thought paths and such: it used to be so easy, you saw better right way, it was obviously better, things really progressed and went forward, not anymore, it was not all political like today.
    Anyways, the rant is not only directed to MS, but I see this happening in so many things and areas, we go backwards instead of forwards, if you can’t go forwards, go backwards, if you can’t progress anymore go backwards. Like working so hard that you actual break things, you actually unwork what was previously achieved, going backwards, not only diminishing returns but negative returns, the more you work hard, the more you change and “innovate” and “research” the more everything becomes worse, breaks, goes backwards (and don’t even get me started on medicine, health care and so forth, now everyone is considered “autistic”, is sick , has a sickness, needs a drug, needs a test, needs to pay huge amounts of money to the health care mob and so on), we’re headed towards the stone age through all of this new fangled innovation and research and fake “progress”. Progress Terminated.
    8 thugs 8 man

  396. ComradeDystopia March 8, 2013 at 4:59 pm #

    We’ve been freezing our asses off here since November. I’m looking forward to some warm weather pretty soon.
    This site deals with how things might end. I’m reading a new book on how things began, “The Barbarous Years, The Peopling of British North America; The Conflicts of Civilizations, 1600-1675”, Bernard Bailyn, 2012 … brutal indian warfare on Staten Island, Manhattan and Queens between Dutch and Lapatan Indians, the Dutch being veterans of the 30 years war in central Europe (worst in history until WW1), Finns and Swedes fighting it out with indians in Delaware, Penn and Maryland, Puritans and Pilgrims starving to death in Mass ,,, it was a rough start. Who knew?
    –CD

  397. Janos Skorenzy March 8, 2013 at 5:22 pm #

    I’m glad you know and appreciate I have a role to play and expectations to meet. But all that – and my grammatical errors aside, what I said was important. Blacks are dummies as all the evidence indicates: tests since early 1900s, classroom performance, job performance, income levels, crime levels, etc. And the evidence for Black intellectual equality? Zero, zilch, nada, nyet, null, the empty set. It’s just not there. They’re idiots and Whites who don’t recognize that are idiots of another kind – ones who should know better.
    As you clean your Central Park Bathroom, in your mind imagine you are cleaning your consciousness. This is Tantra – the weaving of the mundane and supermundane together to affect spiritual evolution.

  398. Janos Skorenzy March 8, 2013 at 5:25 pm #

    Quite so Dys (chaos). The victory over the Indians (and our refusal to breed with them) is what made America possible. The victory of the British is marginal next to that. America would have been a great country even if governed by Britain for a long time or even permanently as part of the Commonwealth.

  399. lucky 13 March 8, 2013 at 6:02 pm #

    Janos..can you give us links to yr version of
    American History?
    brits, soldiers, red skins.

  400. Buck's A Stud March 8, 2013 at 6:06 pm #

    I love Led Zeppelin (the middle-end of “The Battle Of Evermore” is a transcendent aesthetic experience) Miles Davis, The Beatles, The Who, YES, The Count Basie Orchestra, etc… but, sorry lads, the music in the below link is THE APEX – the Ossia Cadenza, OMG:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY81hTXGh98&playnext=1&list=PLCCA19758BEA9181C&feature=results_video

  401. lucky 13 March 8, 2013 at 6:53 pm #

    This year is ‘The Year’?

  402. Bustin Jay March 8, 2013 at 7:33 pm #

    Kyooshtik e-quoted “Global temperatures are warmer than at any time in at least 4,000 years, … and over the coming decades are likely to surpass levels not seen on the planet since before the last ice age.”
    Well, lets not hop on slop here. The Ice Ages were about 10,000ya. Break out your graphing calculators, gentlemen. In 2008 we broke the 100 year record. This year we’ll hit 4000.
    1. Describe a logarithmic function that models the data and predict how many years ago the world’s heat record will match 4 years from now.
    I’m a lazy mathematician. But good enuff that I can say with some logical certainty that 4 years from now we’ll have the hottest year on record since X followed by at least five zeros if not six.
    The genie is clearly out of the bottle but no one seems to realize the danger.
    Humanity is toast.

  403. Carol Newquist March 8, 2013 at 7:56 pm #

    It’s nothing E-Verify can’t cure. You’ve tangled yourself in your jockstrap, douche nozzle. After how I’ve seen you conduct yourself here, you have no credibility, and you have no character. You are not the one to carry such a message. In your hands, it is meaningless. What is your screen name at Nature Bats Last? Come on, be honest. Who are you? Daniel? Figures. I guarantee you, me and you in person, you lose, and lose big.

  404. Janos Skorenzy March 8, 2013 at 8:07 pm #

    Remember, two or three years ago, the Southern Hemisphere had the colderst winter on record. Thousands froze and/or starved to death on the high plateau of Peru and Bolivia, with massive die off of fish and animals. And the Ice in Antartica is growing.

  405. Janos Skorenzy March 8, 2013 at 8:11 pm #

    My version? My version! What happened, happened. It can’t be changed or denied. We conquered this continent and enjoy the fruits of the conquest. Anyone who denies this, let them be anathema.

  406. Julian C. Lee March 8, 2013 at 8:11 pm #

    This chart makes it very clear that the earth is presently at its coolest of the past 10 thousand years:
    http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/07/the_global_warming_hoax_how_soon_we_forget.html
    A great site is IceAgeNow.info, a site that establishes that the temperature of the earth is controlled by the sun, tracks the extraordinary cooling weather all over the globe, and exposes the warmist liars.
    http://iceagenow.info

  407. Janos Skorenzy March 8, 2013 at 8:18 pm #

    Not a word about the relentless persecution of Whites by the Black police and gangs. If the Whites play their cards right, they may well be able to take the country back. The ANC in South Africa are Xhosas. The Zulus lost out. If the Whites allie with the Zulus, together they could crush the Xhosa, if the World is too busy to intervene. Perhaps White Mercenaries could also lend a hand to their racial brethren.

  408. Julian C. Lee March 8, 2013 at 8:21 pm #

    Carolonius Pornquest: “jockstrap, douche nozzle, shit, semen…”
    Blacks really uplift a discourse.
    (Does this sound like the writing of an liberal English woman named Carol, a name that puts “her” in her 40s or 50s)?
    “you have no credibility,…What is your screen name at Nature Bats Last? Come on, be honest. Who are you? Daniel?
    Funny. It’s you who’s a black male posting under a female name and pretending to be a white female living in England and posting a porn novel that has a male sexual point of view.
    “and you have no character.
    Ibid.
    Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton combined have more moral authority than you. Which isn’t too much.
    “I guarantee you, me and you in person, you lose, and lose big.
    Note that the anti-racist English Lady Ms. Thornquist is now beating her chest and challenging a male to a fight.

  409. Ixnei March 8, 2013 at 8:57 pm #

    Wowzers, there’s actually some relevant discussion finally, from Buster Johnson and Kwoosh, on global warming.
    Not to be the broken record that I am, but (!!!) don’t forget about the solar irradiance cycle of ~10-15 years, and how Father Sun/Mother Earth should reach the solar irrandiance max sometime this year, which will then peak at that flux rate for another 3-5 years…

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  411. xhalor March 8, 2013 at 9:29 pm #

    “…All of these are White European musical values and all of them are weak factors in black music that preceded them.”
    Dear Mr. Niggerhater,
    Since it IS Friday night, and the workers need some relief from the weekly stress of bone crushing labor, I thought that I would contribute to your earlier discussion on “White European musical values”. Please allow me present some festive Scottish music…
    Sincerely,
    Bagh O’Douche
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfAJLGFWxYo

  412. xhalor March 8, 2013 at 10:08 pm #

    But…wait
    How could I forget
    Let this be our BATTLE CRY
    I’m sure that our resident ethnomusicologist
    MR. NIGGERHATER
    …can provide some historical perspective
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO2ebiuV3hU

  413. Buck's A Stud March 8, 2013 at 10:14 pm #

    x,
    I don’t believe O’Fillintheblank would appreciate being termed of Scottish orgin;likewise not many Scots consider themselves Irish.
    But forget all that, it’s just my excuse to set up a fine Luke Kelly rendition of Patrick Kavnagh’s “Ragland Road” since it’s so close to St.Patrick’s Day.
    “Like clouds over fields of May” (sigh):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19qdV2vgM-o

  414. Carol Newquist March 8, 2013 at 10:35 pm #

    Considering the upheaval to come from catastrophic climate change, I suspect there will be many such harrowing night rides in the great migrations to come.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCjxZHGHL4Y
    At least I have a chest to beat, semen lee, unlike yourself, with your parched and shriveled nipples precariously perched atop your unsightly pectus excavatum.

  415. Buck's A Stud March 8, 2013 at 10:37 pm #

    Since the topic of music has come up I wonder how many know that our Vlad is quite the banjo player:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WeNe5MLgyHM#!

  416. stelmosfire March 8, 2013 at 10:59 pm #

    Nice Clip Buck! When she sings about the salty dog I don’t even think ol’ A. Griffith caught the drift. It would never have made NBC. I have a Gibson banjo with resonator and a Harmondy clawhammer. I wish I could play like that guy though. Maybe someday. ;o)

  417. stelmosfire March 8, 2013 at 11:02 pm #

    Make that a Harmony 5 string.

  418. stelmosfire March 8, 2013 at 11:08 pm #

    ” Sweeter Than Sourwood Honey”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2nEgYiqQUk

  419. xhalor March 8, 2013 at 11:14 pm #

    …a creature made of clay
    Dude,
    That was truly beautiful.
    Thank you for the link.
    I hope I have enough space to add his complete discography to the archive.
    Let me share. A song from my childhood.
    Personally, I like Dolly’s version.
    But I’m just some Indiana hick. What the fuck do I know?
    In America, it’s called “Silver Dagger”
    I was taught “Katie Dear”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5nojxhd8g4

  420. xhalor March 8, 2013 at 11:19 pm #

    Good God. Did you take a close look at that banjo player?
    Yeah…that corn came in real good.

  421. xhalor March 8, 2013 at 11:43 pm #

    If I’m not the first, please excuse.
    A moment to mark the passage of Van Cliburn.
    And some thanx for his talent while we had the technology to appreciate it.
    A difficult path that we were allowed to glimpse.

  422. Ixnei March 8, 2013 at 11:56 pm #

    You’ve caught me(,) with my pants down…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlZFJ08MGhU

  423. xhalor March 9, 2013 at 12:02 am #

    Why You Must Have A Trouser Belt:
    !. Fashion
    2. Tourniquets
    3. Beat On The Brat

  424. Julian C. Lee March 9, 2013 at 1:06 am #

    “Dear Mr. Niggerhater,…
    It’s very rude to refer to blacks as “niggers.” I have never done so. You should clean yourself up.
    As to hate, don’t let a bit of frank racial talk turn you into an hysterical woman.

  425. Janos Skorenzy March 9, 2013 at 1:25 am #

    Indeed, I fear I’m out of the loop here as well. What is the “salty dog”? I fear the answer will destroy my subjectivity…

  426. 79iron March 9, 2013 at 3:12 am #

    Was Rich
    Beware of formerly rich countries, communities becoming poor again, this is happening in Spain, Italy and other places, they will fight back, they will delude themselves, they will do everything they can to make believe that it is not happening, that a “solution” can be found, that “growth” can restart again: well there is no solution, no one and nothing is in charge, it is all left to its own devices now (in a sense, everything has always been left to its own devices always), it will evolve completely independent of what anyone thinks, any governments do or laws or anything, any debates, any information and trying to figure it our and so on, you can’t think away the problems, you can’t debate them away or throw ever more debates, theories, ideas, politics, or information at problems, they simply can’t be solved because they don’t depend on any controlling causes, any linearities, they are intractable problems, like all of economy, no one is in charge, no one and no politics, idea or concepts can change anything, these things simply play out by themselves, no matter how much you try to fool yourself. And the distance between all the the talk and theories and “trying to figure it out” and reality is ever larger. And these people will get angry, violent, frustrated, all kinds of bad things, will do all kinds of irrational things, but will probably simply make things even worse. They will try to hang on to their former wealth without ever doing what should be done:
    1) crash all real estate prices radically (3 bedroom home in the center of Madrid or Rome or London should cost no more than 50,000 dollars), huge deflation of all prices – salaries and goods (salaries at 700 dollars a month) – and bring forth cheap rents and build homes by the millions so there is no longer any excuse for high home values and prices;
    2) huge public private projects, governments hiring millions (even to do nothing but to give a salary);
    3) huge infrastructure projects, rockets, skyscrapers, whatever.
    Will this ever happen ? No. the developed economies all have the “invisible hand” religion, they all want things to play out by themselves, there is no strong central government and so forth that can impose all of this. They are all doing the exact opposite, firing public workers, trying to save money and such. And waiting for the startups, innovation myth to hire millions: good luck with that.
    But why can they do this when a major war breaks out ? why can they concentrate all of their power and wealth for wars and fighting but not for evolving normal societies to trying to be better off ? only fights justify large govenment expenditures, but poverty is not a war…
    Like the greens that didn’t want Nuclear Power: well guess what, now the dominant energy form is carbon, that is dirty, polluting and creates a load of CO2, but for a religious – dogma – ideological idea that Nuclear is the devil they just made things a lot worse for global warming: nuclear is the cleanest and most advanced and best energy, but the greens think that it is the devil, go figure.
    spark plug

  427. lucky 13 March 9, 2013 at 3:17 am #

    It is all relative, yes?
    Someone in Alaska welcomes warming, no one in Africa does.
    ‘Warming is good’? Not if it brings drying as well.

  428. 9e6tw4o9f March 9, 2013 at 4:24 am #

    and horsewoman gathered from all over the world

    All things considered Rio de Janeiro has a tremendous touristic potential, being able to offer all kinds of activities both cultural and recreation to its tourists and local inhabitants. For these reasons and the already popular ones, Rio de Janeiro is becoming even more popular among tourists from all over the world that come here even more than one time because no tourist can see all there is to see in this.
    of where you want to go and what you want to look for, from word one. This means that you should even have a sense of how you are getting from home to the airport or train station: as that’s an adventure most of us can do without worrying over..
    setting of this unique architectural enclave from the 17th Century. The construction is situated in a 64 sq kilometre estate and has been completely restored to meet the demands of the 21st Century.

    With regards to the actual facilities that the Pazo has to offer they are as follows: 9 double bedrooms, 1 special double room, Heating, en suite bathrooms, telephone, satellite and Canal + TV, mini-bar.

    All usual mealtimes are observed at this Pazo and they are,Hollister españa,.
    not run out and do not offer an upgrade!

    For drivers under age 25, costs for rental cars can be rather high but there are numerous things you can do to minimize the fiscal pain of that as well.

    To save additional money, look into some of the lesser known car rental companies,Hollister suéteres Hermosa. Often their pricing is better than the well known brand names and they offer extra perks as well, like possibly a GPS included in the car,Hollister Faldas Mallory..
    />As the name implies, bed and breakfast lodging in Florence present breakfast. Some present complete meals of meat, eggs, toast, and pancakes. Others only present continental breakfasts consisting of doughnuts and juice or coffee. Normally, the morning meal is included within the room rate. Nevertheless, some bed and breakfast lodging in Florence could require you to pay extra for breakfast.

    Mattress and Breakfast in Florence
    There are many bed and breakfast lodging in Florence. If you’re on the lookout for.

  429. 79iron March 9, 2013 at 4:58 am #

    Superstition
    It is all superstition today, like the greens against Nuclear, this mysterious “bad thing”, this “devil”, all superstitious, all afraid of ghosts and imaginary boogy mans and such: there has never been an era so full of superstition, knowledge, science and at the same time so religious, irrational, so stupid; science and knowledge didn’t really bring anything to the table, for every new scientific fact or data, there is a never ending debate and fight and politics about what it means, who is right, what to do, the more science the more fights and politics and debates and choices and unknowns and so forth, all controversial; like we know everything and we know nothing at the same time; we have everything and we have nothing at the same time; religion went out of the door to come back through the window in the form of science, greens, data and controversial ideas, everything is questioned, everything is unsure, nuclear is obviously the best energy source but pure religion and superstition and so many idiots debating something so obvious has made it go away: we need way more nuclear, the only really clean energy source there is. Just like “innovation” creating millions of jobs is superstition, is a make believe, is an abstract uncontrollable “new fact” that we now “know”, or labor reforms will make Spain and Italy “grow again”, all make believes, all BS, all hot air just to make believe that they are on top of it, that they are in control that they know what they are doing and talking about: nothing further from the truth, they just repeat all the BS everyone else repeats, like a prayer, like a religion, all copy cats, all the data can be manipulated to show that anything is true or false and so forth, no one knows anything or can control anything (like 300,000 new jobs were created in the USA in february: wow, who would have imagined, but is it true ? what jobs ? can I control that new fact ? and so on), and the real mistake is to take anyone seriously, is to take humanity and this huge civilization as something having value and worthwhile when it is all crap, useless, make believe, irrational, we are all still in the stone ages, we are an ape age animal, nothing more.
    But so it is with all, everything is acronyms, new names, new concepts, people selling things based on things that are invisible, like the quad core phones and such: well who ever noticed the difference ? all of these tags and features, all names of invisible, abstract things that you can’t measure or know, see or touch, or understand all to sell some imaginary “better thing” this is all superstition, 100,000 apps (apps to do exactly what ? so many different things ? incredible who would have ever imagined, I can’t imagine more than 10 different things but these guys invented 100,000 different things, wow!=) ) the multi core PCs haven’t improved crap, it is all make believe, it is all a marketing scheme, and then I even doubt the chips have more than one cpu and maybe they only have a few hundred thousand transistors and it is all a hoax, a make believe, but who would ever notice ? how could you ever find out ? and the same with drugs, sicknesses, and all kinds of things, sell invisible things, sell financial products, sell this and that but be sure that it is incomprehensible, invisible, indirect and abstract and people are under the thumb of the experts having “faith” in the experts, the new gurus and so forth, all superstition, all unknown, uncontrollable, unknowable and so on and so forth and such.
    The Information Age, everyone can say anything and debate everything to not get anywhere, the more information and knowledge, the more conflicts, debates, politics, fights and so on, nothing that is accumulating and going forward, we are at the end of progress, progress self destroyed by too much information.
    spark plug

  430. 79iron March 9, 2013 at 5:12 am #

    Rich to Poor
    When a society goes from poor to rich, everything is getting better, is growing, there is hope, drive and so forth: when a society goes from rich to poor, everyone gets mad, is nervous, is angry sad wants to find someone else to blame and fights and so forth, dictatorships may come to be, wars, chaos, but no solutions will come. And this is what is happening in Southern Europe, Portugal, Greece, Spain, Italy etc.
    And the modern civilization went from poor to rich from 1850 to 1990 and so, everything was going forward, getting better, a win win situation, you studied for the future, there would be high tech jobs, new money, projects, and so on. Now the developed world is going backwards, fighting each other over the costs of health care, can you believe that ? something so stupid as this ? I can’t believe it! and we are wasting money buying cell phones, fancy cell phones. Can you believe that ? incredible, we are doomed, a society that is going from rich to poor, everyone will fight everyone else, everyone wants to find who is to blame, everyone in fighting mode, who on earth is going to hire when everyone hates everyone else and so forth ?

  431. stelmosfire March 9, 2013 at 7:02 am #

    Well Vlad, You seem to be a sharp guy. Don’t pull my chain. I know that you know that the salty dog lulls in the shade of my salty stones during the heat of a sultry August day.

  432. 79iron March 9, 2013 at 8:34 am #

    From:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=182125
    lizbethrose wrote:Lamborghini has a new car—the Veneno—described as a street-legal race car.
    Only three will be made, but all three sold months ago. Two of them were sold to American business men. The price tag? Only $3.9M.
    This story came out the same time the sequester was allowed to begin. Okay—So? So no one seems to care. Is not caring the result of apathy, or is it a sense of defeatism?
    No one knows what the sequester will mean in the end or how it’ll affect the majority of US citizens. But I’m pretty sure very few of us will ever be able to pay $3.9M on a car we’ll never use—and get tax breaks as well.
    Re: Lamborghini
    Post by Flannel Jesus » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:53 pm
    I don’t understand. What does any of this stuff have to do with people buying expensive cars? What are you talking about?
    Reply to Flanel Jesus, Son of Man, King of the Jews:
    you could have answered to liz more intelligently in the following ways as*hole:
    1) at least they are not inflating property prices in big cities and hurting poor people by buying houses and apartments, at least they are not hiking up prices in London, Los Angeles, New York City and so on and so forth and such with their heavy money;
    2) liz is a lazy b*tch, welfare queen, envious of the rich and their hard owned money: they worked hard for their cash, they are not like you, lazy moron, they are not lazy slobs like you liz, welfare queen, envious of the rich and wants a free handout, so let them spend and enjoy their cash;
    3) it is good that they buy high class cars, this helps industry and keeps people working and especially it helps to saturate the world with ever more cars and things, the more stuff built the richer we all are.
    Now, take your choice, jesus, how do you wish to reply ?
    thug head

  433. 79iron March 9, 2013 at 8:41 am #

    that was from:
    http://instantsingularity3.blogspot.it
    and
    http://instantsingularity1.blogspot.it
    thug 8 men

  434. Buck's A Stud March 9, 2013 at 9:39 am #

    Stelmosfire,
    Good eye for recognizing the outstanding musicianship on display by those “country hicks”. In fact, it’s a much higher quality of music than so much of the crap posturing as music these days. And how about the use of the word “render”; that’s from an era of Americana that very few still appreciate. But some of us still remember those types: our grandfathers who had every bolt, nut, and screw meticulously organized and stored in old baby food jars whose screw on tops were screwed into the ceiling overhangs of garages. Below is a wonderful poem by Fred Voss who captures the essence of these types, these master workmen of an America pretty much in the rear view mirror:
    http://silverbirchpress.wordpress.com/2012/09/06/how-many-times-poem-by-fred-voss/

  435. CaptSpaulding March 9, 2013 at 9:47 am #

    With regards to North and his Christian fundamentalist views, just remember “If an ass peers into the bible, don”t expect a wise man to look back out.”

  436. stelmosfire March 9, 2013 at 10:51 am #

    Hey Buck, if you wanna pick, maybe you already do?, Anyhoo, I learned from this book by the great Earl Scruggs. He even tells ya how to build your own rig.
    http://www.amazon.com/Earl-Scruggs-5-String-Banjo-Enhanced/dp/0634060422/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1362843540&sr=1-1&keywords=earl+scruggs+and+the+5-string+banjo

  437. stelmosfire March 9, 2013 at 11:10 am #

    That is a great link Buck. My Nonno was a machinist at “The Pope”. Makers of Pope autos and then Columbia bicycles. He worked there after he got out of Lane’s rock quarry and living on “dog alley” in company housing. His back could not take the stonework anymore. I remember playing bocche in the pine groves on the factory yards. Hunting squirrels,frogs,and mushrooms. Have you ever had frog legs? Tastes like chicken :o) The quarry is still there but the forest and houses are gone.Lost to McMansions.

  438. 79iron March 9, 2013 at 12:37 pm #

    From:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=182125
    reply to 8 man was:
    “So the one time you deviate from your endless repetitive spamming is to be an absolute cunt?
    Fantastic contribution you’ve made…”
    8 thugs reply:
    Reply To Flanel Jesus 2 :
    Well flanel sweater could have at least replied as follows:
    “Thank You For Replying To Liz On My Behalf.”
    Anyyways, thug head hits the nail on the head by saying that we need things, we need to saturate the world with things, ever more things, all kinds of things, cars, books, buildings, malls, big box stores, glasses, thoughts, concepts, text, symbols, you name it anything, all things, the craziest things, the most different things imaginable, a number, a concept, a box, plastic glasses you name it, just take any random set of things in a dump, that is so cool, ever more things, different things, so damn cool! I like that the number of things in the world is constantly increasing, the more things are put in the world, the more we all get rich, the more things are available to everyone, sooner or later it will become available to all and it will cost zero, a technological economy has so much economies of scale, produces so much free wealth that the cost of everything will drop to zero sooner or later, build trillions of homes and buildings, finally the cost of a house will become zero, free, build trillions of luxury cars, the cost of them will finally become zero, of course the rich could try to block you away from having that which is essentially free today by using cost as a barrier, as a fence to keep you out, but it will eventually become free.
    (what is this wishful thinking ? superstition ? a new religion ? a new faith in some new metaphysical mechanism ? is human nature finally different from what it has always been and namely fight, A against B, A wins B loses end of story ?)
    So I like things, all kinds of things, disjoint things, totally unrelated things, manufacture trillions of things, I like big numbers, I like that everything is accumulating, is adding up and such. Do you know how many capacitors are in the world today ? trillions now (just cell phones have tens and we sell a billion cell phones a year)! do you know how many resistors are in the world today ? trillions ! that is so cool! I like big numbers, big numbers of things, saturate the worlds with big numbers, make them produce and buy luxury cars, soon we will all have a ferrari, keep on going.
    And anyways, the rich deserve it, they worked hard, they risked and played the game and won, all you losers are envious and jealous, fairy tale green protecting, tree huggers are losers and fairies, you lost the game, I won, I win, ha ha I win, !
    ON another note, I was calculating that in any population in NYC at least 100,000 families are rich enough to buy million dollar homes, but they don’t have to, they already have them, but they can always choose to hike up the values of homes if they go on a frenzy, all of a sudden, something that could happen, or they could just keep their cash and wait, just like a chemical reaction, a small amount of a substance can change and create a reaction, a small amount of cash can hike up prices or keep them steady (they rarely go down, but anyways), but then: this is all very random, just a random bit (chaos, blind forces operating, total random, unpredictable), just if a few families all of a sudden decide to buy you could have a fast chain reaction and hike up prices and such, always punishing the poorer, but anyways: build trillions of homes, saturate the world and then they will cost zero, but even this is iffy, maybe they would all be bought by a few rich people and you would always be at the same spot again, but anyways.
    thug head
    nameta9
    Philosopher
    Posts: 1761
    Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:42 am

  439. Kyooshtik March 9, 2013 at 1:07 pm #

    If you’re wondering (though I doubt you are) how a certain word or name should be prese