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Reality Optional Nation

     Before retiring to a casket packed with clods of my native soil, I tuned in the Sunday night late news to find the political struggles of Araby banished from the screen. Charlie Sheen was all over the place, his defiant chin thrust forward as if auditioning for the role as our next president. I hope the execs at Fox News were paying attention, especially now that they’ve lost half their commentary squad to the toils of campaigning.  Think of it: Charlie Sheen in the White House. With a pound of pharmaceutical-grade blow. More intellect in one seat than since the night Thomas Jefferson dined with his water spaniel, Hercules. No mouthy “advisors” cluttering up the West Wing (or disrupting the laser light show of Charlie’s thoughts). And there is, of course, the memory of his dad, who a lot of prayerful Americans recall as a president, somewhere maybe between Clinton and Bush Two.
     An Alzheimers fog creeps across this land, from sea to shining sea, as its intellectual class – theoretically the brains of this outfit – utterly fails to get a grip on what is transpiring in this world. The failure of leadership in America is comprehensive and deep. President Obama’s top aide, Bill Daley, floated out the notion that we might draw down America’s Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) so that the imprudent folk who traded-in clunkers for new Ford F110s and Cadillac Escalades won’t feel any pain from four-dollar gasoline. 
     Harken, now – a reminder to the rest of you out there who do not have tubeworms boring tunnels through your brain-pans: there’s a reason the petroleum reserve is called “strategic.” We didn’t stockpile that oil to pretend to be the world’s “swing producer” for a month and a half, just to knock the price down twenty-seven cents a gallon so that soccer moms could feel more comfortable bidding for an Auslini Veneto crocodile leather handbag on The Shopping Channel. Strategic was meant to imply when something really really bad happens, like a national emergency, say, with military overtones.
     The failure of the news media, trapped by the diminishing returns of technology, grows more epic every week. We’ve never had more media outlets in the history of this land, or been more poorly informed. Mental fossil George Will fired off a salvo last week against fixing the US railroads. He thinks it’s just a sinister ploy to snatch the people’s “individualism.” Perhaps George hasn’t noticed that other things are operating out there in the polity-space to turn the folks of this land into zombies. After all, they were long ago transformed from “citizens” into “consumers” – without a peep of complaint from anybody – so, having already surrendered their duties, obligations, and responsibilities to anything beyond their hunger for Cheez Doodles, they might now find themselves suddenly devoid of “individualism,” staggering down the highways in mobs wherever a whiff of blood emanates from a strip mall?
      I’d have to guess that the Maryland DOT ran a few lanes of the Beltway through George Will’s head, perhaps so he could drag race with Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Senator Jim DeMint to see who can get America to drive off a cliff fastest. Oddly, the basic question that now thunders through North Africa and the Middle East has not been heard on the fruited plains of this-land-is-your-land – viz: who gave this cohort of  morons the right to tell us what to do and think?
     Which gets us to the true matter at hand: the matter that the world is suddenly exploding in an epic phase-change rearrangement of the political order, starting with the lands that own most of the world’s exportable oil.  In this vein, a message to readers of George Will and other old-line “thought-leaders” of America’s commentary regime: If you think the action in the streets will be limited to these sandy outlands seven thousand miles away, then your last thoughts will not be comforting when the zombies you helped to create turn up slavering in your driveway.
     By the way, this doesn’t let President Obama off the hook. His consistent failure to tell the truth about the fragility of our situation, to make the case for getting our citizens out of their car-prisons, to promote modes of living that comport with reality – the president’s apparent cluelessness in every dimension of this crisis is something that historians of the future will shake theirs heads over in wonder and nausea (if the notion of history even survives the oil age). And for the moment we’ll put aside some other rather pressing matters such as the AWOL rule-of-law in our banking operations.
     One historian, Michael Klare of Hampshire College in Amherst, Mass, made the trenchant point last week that oil nations which undergo political upheaval invariably end up producing far less oil, permanently, no matter whether the political outcome is better or worse than before. So, notwithstanding the media fantasy in our land to the effect that America’s founding fathers have been reincarnated in places like Egypt the past month, it is unlikely that there would be anything but an extreme downside effect on the world’s oil supply, even if the successor to Hosni Mubarak (as yet unknown) turned up in a powdered wig and waistcoat, with the Bill of Rights magically translated into Arabic in his beneficent hand.
     I was a young newspaper reporter during the 1973 OPEC oil “embargo” (so-called). Whatever else history records it as having consisted of – bluffing, hoarding, fear-mongering, market manipulation – a few things are inarguable. It arose suddenly out of a political conflict (the Yom Kippur War), and it disrupted life in the USA to a degree unknown since the Second World War – or for that matter until the present day, even counting the trauma of 9/11/01. My sense of things is that we are now entering an oil crisis much more severe and very likely permanent. If production is lost through political strife in Libya, Algeria, Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, Iran, Iraq, or even a lesser combination of them, it will crater the global economy and change how we do everything here. George Will may even find himself having to ride a bicycle down the freeway in his head.
     

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View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

1,158 Responses to “Reality Optional Nation”

  1. greyghost05 March 7, 2011 at 9:49 am #

    First, like it matters.

  2. Newfie March 7, 2011 at 9:50 am #

    Who is Charlie Sheen ? Seriously, I’ve never heard of him.

  3. Leibowitz Society March 7, 2011 at 9:55 am #

    There is no more leadership in the country. We’re in a “you’re going to have to rely on yourself” in the future mode, though no one’s explicitly come out and said it yet. Really, I doubt anyone ever will — some things, you just can’t say…like there’s no way to correct the course of the nation.
    Visit the Leibowitz Society at http://leibowitzsociety.blogspot.com for commentary and planning during our descent into a new Dark Age.

  4. 2020V March 7, 2011 at 9:56 am #

    I remember the oil shock of 1973. It wiped out our public bus service for about a month, meaning I had to take a train to college. It was the start of the 3 day week and power blackouts in the evenings. Events in Libya could do the same, and I am sure the oil markets will get the jitters when the Saudi masses have their day of rage on Friday. Gasoline’s now US$8 a gallon in Europe now – where do we give up and get down off the merry-go-round $12?

  5. spittingrage March 7, 2011 at 9:58 am #

    “…Charlie Sheen was all over the place, his defiant chin thrust forward as if auditioning for the role as our next president.”
    Scary thought…maybe Sheen should have starred in the movie “Idiocracy”. Or maybe we’re all starring in it now!

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  6. Solar Guy March 7, 2011 at 10:01 am #

    Please Help #WINNING
    I’m trying my best to change the world by raising awareness and installing solar panels.
    I know it is too little too late.
    However,I think this ELECTRIC car will help. (Install a Solar array, charge your car, fuck oil) Yea yea, it takes oil to do everything, we eat it, 7 gallons to make a tire etc. etc… but gotta start somewhere…
    PLEASE VOTE it takes 30 seconds.
    https://www.drivenissanleaf.com/Win/Vote.aspx?b=Y272Y85WBYZG
    Cheers,
    Solar Guy.

  7. Smokyjoe March 7, 2011 at 10:01 am #

    The right’s rage against rail is so stupid as to defy all common sense: some of the greediest capitalists in the history of this nation built that network. At least we do have rails for freight left. We’ll rig up any sort of rolling stock we can, like the crumbling cars I recall that RENFE ran, in the late-Franco era in Spain, to move folks on the freight lines when Saudi Arabia finally goes tits-up.
    Americans are a short-sighted and doomed folk. JHK asks,
    “who gave this cohort of morons the right to tell us what to do and think?”
    The electorate, Jim. The morons who waddle into the polling places and, with their chubby sausage fingers greased up from 99-cent sausage-biscuits, push buttons to elect other morons who then go on to enrich themselves while getting voters to vote against their own interests.
    Obama, like the ghost of someone substantial from another age of good governance, has folded up like a paper fan before the right-wing lunkheads who, at least and to their credit, understand that less government may be needed at all levels because…
    We are broke. Just not in the ways they think. It’s our wills and intellect that are broken.

  8. RyeBeachBum March 7, 2011 at 10:01 am #

    Say what you will about Glenn Beck, and I am hardly a fan, he is one of the only MSM commentators who has discussed Peak Oil. Beck believes we hit peak oil in 2006, so Jim you should give him his due on that, he even had a chapter on it in his book.

  9. montysano March 7, 2011 at 10:03 am #

    The notion that Obama is clueless is wrong, I think. He’s simply trying to dodge the task that many before him (and many around him) are loathe to take on: telling the American people the truth. Certainly the first pol that dares to do this will be relegated to the wilderness; such is the depth of craveness and depravity to which the populace has sunk. When have you ever heard the phrase “Americans are going to have to use much, much less energy” uttered on the national stage?

  10. WestCoast March 7, 2011 at 10:05 am #

    Suggestion:
    Google
    “How to grow your own food”

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  11. RyeBeachBum March 7, 2011 at 10:05 am #

    Newfie, if you are still up on the rock, and know not of Charlie Sheen, then you need to stay oblivious to him because just even knowing who he is kills brain cells.

  12. TragicHipster March 7, 2011 at 10:05 am #

    JHK likes to tell us about how we’ll have to survive with less given Peak Oil. And, often in the same posts, bashes politicians who dare tell the truth regarding the something-for-nothing endless deficits our government likes to run. Nevermind the fact that if you were to tax 100% of the income of people in the top 1% of income brackets that it still wouldn’t be enough to balance the budget. He wants to make sure his favorite left-wing constituencies are going to be the ones still getting money shoveled to them even as our econmy continues its decline. There is indeed a serious lack of intellectual leadership in this nation. No doubt about it.

  13. PRD March 7, 2011 at 10:07 am #

    Man, doesn’t it seem sort of dream-like right now? I feel like part of a small cadre of people walking around with this crazy, dark knowledge, thinking as I look at others rushing around me: “You have no idea — and wouldn’t believe me if I told you.”
    Even stranger, sometimes even I feel disconnected from what I know is coming — sort of turned off from reality for a little break once in awhile, as my wife and I plan a trip out west, or I listen to my kids talk about grad school (Ummmm, maybe you guys should learn large animal veterinary science?).

  14. noel bodie March 7, 2011 at 10:07 am #

    Man, I know you drive a four banger, but you are firein’ on all 8 this week. I’ll be yor cornpone demagogue: let us not forget the folks in Wisconsin,Indiana,and Ohio with their struggle against Koch money politicians. TAX THE RICH,

  15. pedal pusher March 7, 2011 at 10:10 am #

    George Will has been consistently eloquent and consistently wrong for decades. On the other hand, Charlie Sheen evidences a more realistic assessment of the current pridicament.

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  16. cleitophon March 7, 2011 at 10:11 am #

    Whenever I read Howard’s weekly blog (which is hugely entertaining), I always get the sense that the US is virtually on the verge of revolution or civil war.
    I mean is social cohesion truly on the edge over your side of the pond?
    All the best!

  17. John T Anderson March 7, 2011 at 10:15 am #

    JHK: The fact is that this is a national emergency; $4.00 per gallon gasoline literally takes food out of the mouths of the children of our poorest citizens. And it has military overtones; since President Obama and Secretary Clinton have declared that Khadafy must go, they can hardly stand by and allow Libya’s King of Kings to defeat the rebellion against him. Some hour soon, the U.S. will have to intervene in the conflict, if only to the extent of establishing a no-fly zone by bombing the mortal shit out of Khadafy’s air force and anti-aircraft defenses. Stay tuned, folks.

  18. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown March 7, 2011 at 10:16 am #

    He’s simply trying to dodge the task that many before him (and many around him) are loathe to take on: telling the American people the truth.
    No kidding. He saw how well that worked out for th e last one who tried that, Carter.

  19. Großdeutschland March 7, 2011 at 10:17 am #

    “My sense of things is that we are now entering an oil crisis much more severe and very likely permanent.”
    Jim, you’re an idiot. You’ve been saying pretty much the same thing every week for at least the last 6 years.
    Crisis? What crisis? The price of gasoline went up 30 cents on the loss of Libya’s 1.5 mbpd of exports. In 2008, gasoline hit $4.11 (60 cents away). How soon you forget. Since then, and until this winter, the price of oil has been remarkably stable at about $70 or $80. Your prediction was that it would be volatile.
    When are you going to wake up and realize that your success rate on matters regarding oil is zero percent.
    Now? Really? Now? … or now? when are we entering this crisis, exactly?
    And do you also realize that all the events this winter/spring in the Mideast are one giant Black Swan that you failed to predict?
    But they won’t change the situation with oil more than $50 or so in the near term. Because nothing is going to change politically anytime soon in Saudi Arabia and The Kingdom has at least 1 mbpd of swing capacity to make Libya and the SPR situation go away faster than Charlie Sheen can say,”Ninja, Please!”

  20. Newfie March 7, 2011 at 10:17 am #

    I surmise my ignorance is due to the lack of a television. Thanks for not telling me who he is ! 😉

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  21. greyghost05 March 7, 2011 at 10:17 am #

    JHK, we are the same age and have lived thru the shit ! The part I have trouble grasping is WHY ? Why can’t anyone outside of people who have no position to do anything come up with a viable game plan ? All our lives we have been told we, the American people are the greatest. And yet not a single presidential administration since the Big Lie of ’73 has been able to come up with an energy plan that cuts off the dependance on middle East oil ? Back in ’73 when it happened I remember how during the summer of ’74 most people stayed home. Gas had jumped from 45 cents to 80 cents and we thought it was the end of life as we knew it. Out of this event there were as many or more great ideas for droping off the dependancy of oil and conserving energy as we see today. Only the hippie/stoner, back to the earth types seemed to take it to heart and go with it. Things like solar furnaces, solar green houses attached to earth sheltered homes. organic gardening, growing what you need and bartering for what you couldn’t produce your self and personal fitness to maintain that self reliant spirit. Lifestyle changes that all of a sudden are being reinvented and touted as new. We’ve already been there and done that ! IF there’s oil down in the gulf why aren’t we going for it. There are plenty of others who will and then sell it to us for a serious mark up.
    Time looks like it’s running out on Happy Motoring for most all except the very rich. Food prices have been keeping pace with raising fuel prices and both are no longer counted in the CPI. I guess if we cook the books it looks better. Just like Wall Street.
    See you next week.

  22. walt March 7, 2011 at 10:18 am #

    Funny. When shills for the plutocracy venture out of their mental gated community, the first thing they see is class war waged at their expense. Upstarts! They should sit quietly and blame a black person for all of this!

  23. zen17 March 7, 2011 at 10:19 am #

    Most people don’t want to hear how bad things are. Charlie Sheen’s antics are much more enjoyable to watch (though I don’t actually own a tv and have no idea what he has done).
    Staying distracted is simply easier.
    But things are not going to be okay if you don’t get your act together.
    Your body needs to be healthy and your mind needs to be clear.
    http://wanderingsagewisdom.blogspot.com

  24. empirestatebuilding March 7, 2011 at 10:19 am #

    Charlie Sheen is the wizard of Oz right now.
    If little ole Libya can cause this wreckage imagine what a real oil producer country revolution could do. $5, $6, $7 dollars a gallon by labor day?
    And look at the US flapping their wings in 2 un-winnable wars. Not a thing we can do about any of it.
    Stupid is as stupid does.
    Aimlow Joe was here.
    http://www.aimlow.com

  25. newworld March 7, 2011 at 10:21 am #

    What did any of you expect? It goes in this order; Sell the notion of humans as Blank Slates then practice economic materialism as means of social control while enriching yourself with power or money and call it human progress.
    Now you white liberals want to tell the Mexican immigrants that they have to go back to hoeing the corn and forget the F-150 with the “Double Deuces” wheels and tires.
    Good luck with that.
    FTR I live in the great state of Illinois and having traveled a bit on I-55 nothing quite like a Cadillac Escalade zipping by you at 85mph with an “Obama 08” bumper sticker headed to Springfield or Chicago says, “F*ck Off I got mine” any better.

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  26. mow March 7, 2011 at 10:22 am #

    george should keep his commentary limited to baseball

  27. Newfie March 7, 2011 at 10:24 am #

    “The Kingdom has at least 1 mbpd of swing capacity to make Libya and the SPR situation go away”
    You’re sure of that are you ? Every time the Saudis say they are increasing production, the price of oil just keeps on going up. And they won’t allow anyone to scrutinize their reserves data. Mmmm…

  28. Cabra1080 March 7, 2011 at 10:25 am #

    In the USA, railroads are PRIVATE. In most other countries of this soon-to-be-larger world, they are GOVERNMENT, i.e. “Public Transport”. This is a big difference. Amtrak is a compromise and compromised it is…
    The government doesn’t care about the railroad and the railroad companies are quite profitable these days with FREIGHT service and they don’t care or want to run passenger service. In fact, they are not particularly enthusiastic about Amtrak running on their rails, they just tolerate it, it occupies “bandwidth” they could better use for freight and higher freight revenues.
    The world is running out of conventional easy to get oil so the price is going up and up. The MSM does not mention the words “peak oil” at all and places the whole blame on “speculators” and “political unrest in Middle East”. Probably it is the speculators who actually get what is happening and thus are buying up oil futures with full expectation of prices going much higher in the future.
    Yes, the bankers have yet to be punished. Their time will come…
    The populace of the USA is being dumbed down with techno-gadgets. The more access to instant information they have, the more sheep-like they become. Zombies indeed…
    Schools are being closed, teachers fired and contracts broken even as the Prez asks for more emphasis on education so our kids can “catch up” with most other countries of the industrialized world including India and China. Fat chance…
    So many potholes to dodge these days including in the budget when it comes time to fill up the gas tank…
    Flying cars and hotels on the moon in the future? Not likely. However, I seem to see a lot more donkeys and horses in the future and a whole lot less people…
    We were once citizens, then consumers. NOW WE ARE ‘RESOURCES’….
    C-A-B-R-A-1-0-8-0

  29. SNAFU March 7, 2011 at 10:26 am #

    Pshaw, not to worry folks. I was talking with my neighbor the other day and he informed me that “THEY” know there is enough oil in the USA to last us for hundreds of years if those goddamn left wing bastards would just get out of the way and let the good folks at BP, Exxon, Shell, ….. drill for it.
    I guess I best stop impeding them oil companies.
    SNAFU

  30. JonathanSS March 7, 2011 at 10:29 am #

    Re: Railroads
    Maybe we can get Warren Buffett to talk more about their importance, especially since he’s made a major investment in rail and doesn’t have to worry about being reelected in 2012.

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  31. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown March 7, 2011 at 10:29 am #

    JHK, great column this week. Casket with clods of native soil. Ha. Maybe you should quit watching so much TV “news”, it’s all info-tainment scandal of the week, unless something bleeds.
    The future for Cheeses Doodles is getting bleaker and bleaker, I heard somewhere on the radio today that 40% of the corn crop here in the US is now used to make ethanol for fuel. That number sounds high to me, but I’ve not been able to find anything that confirms or disproves it yet.

  32. TragicHipster March 7, 2011 at 10:30 am #

    JHK is a Krugman apologist and Keynesian school boot-licker. Of course he didn’t see this black swan event. After all, The Bernank said there’s no inflation. If there’s no inflation, then there can be no revolt over high food prices in countries like the mid-east.

  33. Warren Peace March 7, 2011 at 10:31 am #

    Occasionally I get updates from the Midwest high-speed rail association. With the Tea party takeover in Congess and several governorships, the news is looking grimmer and grimmer, even with oil over $100 a barrel. From their dispatches:
    ****
    The House bill eliminates the high-speed rail program, slashes Amtrak funding, and eliminates funding to expand transit. It even eliminates all un-obligated high-speed rail funds from the stimulus and the 2010 budget.
    ****
    Today, Florida Governor Scott formally rejected $2.4 billion in federal funds to build the first phase of the Tampa–Orlando–Miami high-speed line.
    It might not be a coincidence that this announcement was made before the state received formal bids from private consortia prepared to contribute resources to construction. The decision may be timed to influence the transportation funding debate underway in DC or perhaps Scott did not want to see evidence that the project was financially viable.
    The governors of Wisconsin and Ohio also recently declined a total of $1.2 billion in federal funding for new passenger rail lines. They both criticized those projects as wasteful government spending but then, in the same breath, asked to direct those funds to highway projects.
    There is an organized attack against trains in the U.S. These officials are killing rail projects to score easy political points, sacrificing tens of thousands of jobs and the long-term benefits rail provides.
    But other leaders are showing they have vision. Illinois Governor Quinn reaffirmed his commitment to high-speed rail in his budget address today. He pointed out that Amtrak ridership continues to grow in Illinois and proposed increasing Amtrak funding by 42%. He stated that Illinois will continue to seek high-speed rail funding.
    President Obama and Governor Quinn are striving to give the Midwest a fantastic opportunity to reinvent itself. We need your help to build support for their efforts.

  34. Großdeutschland March 7, 2011 at 10:31 am #

    “$4.00 per gallon gasoline literally takes food out of the mouths of the children of our poorest citizens.”
    You should probably consult a dictionary about the word “literally” before you post more of this idiocy.
    Should we send the 82nd Airborne Division to stop our poorest citizens from actually taking food out of their children’s mouths?
    Or how about buying food for children in OUR country instead of invading Libya to takes sides in a civil war for a country with only 6 million people, 1.5 mbpd of oil exports and a lot of sand? Doesn’t that sound like a better approach?
    Do you really know that little of economics and history? Or are you just generally a complete moron?

  35. montysano March 7, 2011 at 10:31 am #

    TragicHipster said: Nevermind the fact that if you were to tax 100% of the income of people in the top 1% of income brackets that it still wouldn’t be enough to balance the budget. He wants to make sure his favorite left-wing constituencies are going to be the ones still getting money shoveled to them even as our economy continues its decline.
    Darn those left-wing constituencies and their death grip on the political process! /snark
    Reality, of course, it a bit different. Union-busting is the latest national sport. 60 Minutes reported last night that we’re approaching the level of 25% of US children living in poverty.
    Our budget/debt problem is fixable: return to sane taxation levels like those in the ’60s (when our economy was at its most vibrant) and cease spending $1T per year on the business of war.

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  36. JonathanSS March 7, 2011 at 10:32 am #

    You sure have read JHK’s comments with the wrong slant

  37. lbendet March 7, 2011 at 10:35 am #

    JHK,
    Knew you were going to talk about the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, when I heard the news last night concerning Obama’s consideration of tapping into it. Just goes to show how little he understands about how the SPR is supposed to be used. It’s all abut the show. How effective he can be to stave off the bottoming out of our economy. Oh and that stock market too. Gotta keep that looking good or we’re toast! There’s no economy here. How much oil does he think he’s got and for how long will the charade go on that everything’s the same as it ever was?
    We all know that the recession got its momentum with rising gas prices in 2008 and that the blinders must be placed on the people so they continue to think the recession is over and good times are back again. More trickster mortgages. More homelessness. More riches for the guys on top!
    The Michael Klare article got my attention as well and I posted a reference to it on the blog yesterday. How many people on the internet took notice, I wonder. I keep thinking boy, are people in for a big surprise. You think the bubble popped in our faces in 2008, well wait until they see what’s coming.
    New bubbles are a-blowin’ for the investor class while the low middle class has had the bottom fall away and they are crashing through the floor into abject poverty.
    And talking about the abject failure of the media to make any sense of what’s happening. Last week a poll was taken about who is interested in the Royal wedding and it came back that the youth in this country is not into it and most other Americans are not interested. Does that matter? Not one bit. We will have that Royal wedding forced upon us whether we like it or not because the Brits are our allies and that’s the end of it.(—You know according to Huckabee, Obama doesn’t have the same feeling for the Brits as Americans.)

  38. rippedthunder March 7, 2011 at 10:35 am #

    At the end of last weeks thread OLD6699 says,
    “As I have often concluded, the worst thing about life is that it lasts too long”
    You have posted some real BS but this has to be the most moronic thing you have ever said! When they handed out brains, did you hear trains? CHOO-CHOO!

  39. Rabblechat March 7, 2011 at 10:35 am #

    I think it will soon become clear to the masses just how “screwed” we are. As it has been said, if the threat of a disruption of less than one % of our oil (Libya) can cause gas prices to shoot up 35 cents a gallon what happens when Saudi goes up in smoke?
    When that happens the consumers of America won’t be able to scale back purchases of big macs and Ipods enough to off set the cost of 6 and 7 dollar gas.
    but I can guarantee you their will be average Americans doing their damnedest to keep the gas tank full even if it means maxing out the credit card.
    Why? because thats all they know to do…
    for me when it gets to 4 bucks my old pickup will be parked and I will be riding my bicycle to work. If it rains then I’ll have my wife take me.
    When it hits 5 bucks a gallon She will park her car and just stay home with the kids.
    On the bright side, summer is on the way, at least we will have nice weather for the final act…

  40. cbwim March 7, 2011 at 10:37 am #

    President Bartlett’s son.

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  41. popcine March 7, 2011 at 10:37 am #

    We talk among ourselves. It is time to
    yell, and not just at each other.

  42. james March 7, 2011 at 10:40 am #

    Wow! Way to f*n write man!
    Been a while since I forwarded your blog on to triple digit numbers of friends… (I always forward it on to some friends – every week – but this week Jim – I sent it to everybody – last time I did that was with your blog following MJacksons media bereavement…)
    You are hot and on a roll – so write another BOOK quick PLEASE!
    a fan…

  43. kulturcritic March 7, 2011 at 10:41 am #

    The elite of this country, including the likes of George Will, et. al., are only concerned to keep up the charade of manicured lawns and good profits, until the wall comes tumbling down.
    The truth is Americans continue to walk around with their heads firmly stapled to their asses…
    http://kulturcritic.wordpress.com/posts/a-specter-is-haunting-america-2/
    OR
    http://www.amazon.com/Recovery-Ecstasy-Notebooks-Siberia/dp/1439227365

  44. Schwerpunkt March 7, 2011 at 10:44 am #

    It is indeed strange to think about a close at hand emergancy, however, perhaps those of us who “see” are wrong. JHK is often bashed because his forcasts are “off” or things aren’t moving as fast as he may say, however, I am of the school of thought that it doesn’t matter to me if JHK has said a similar warning for six years and I still have my tacos delivered and happy motoring, “something” is going to happen and those few of us see and are willing to think about this. Not that I discuss this much, and have been banned by some about discussing “the change.” I’m planning my vacation too, but also, thinking about what may happen and what to do – and enjoying JHK as a focal point of discussion. I’ll be glad to be wrong about all this. However, I can’t be part of the Sheeple again.
    http://schwerpunkter.wordpress.com/

  45. cbwim March 7, 2011 at 10:44 am #

    Interesting to watch the price of Silver during all of this. Currently around $36.50/troy oz. Just last year in February it sold for $14.78.
    Some may remember when Gold sold for $35.
    Also interesting to watch the escalation in prices of a bag of groceries.
    Worldwide inflation, thanks to all the Quantitative Easing. Big thanks goes to Ben Bernanke.
    And for all of us, get used to it.
    But, they say, there is little or no “official” inflation. Yeah, right. Maybe if you are one of the top 400.
    I am surprised that gas is “only” at $3.60. And yet with it threatening to head up and up, one still sees people driving new big trucks and urban assault vehicles with paper plates on them. Maybe they are simply preparing for this “urban assault”?

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  46. Rick March 7, 2011 at 10:48 am #

    Sadly, it’s become more than clear that NO president of the US, is anything more than just a puppet of the US War machine. At least going back 50 years.
    Max Keiser talks about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89EIadJ1QeQ&feature=player_embedded
    Great article Jim.

  47. rippedthunder March 7, 2011 at 10:49 am #

    emilio’s bro, you must have heard of him!

  48. Hancock1863 March 7, 2011 at 10:54 am #

    To: Marlin554
    ————–
    In all the hubub of last week, I didn’t register that you are a fan of the Mets.
    Pardone moi whilst I double over with laughter…
    Are you enjoying viewing the Phillies from below for lo these many years whilst our homegrown and now acquired JUGGERNAUT of bats and of perhaps the finest four aces since the ’68 Orioles and is poised to lay WASTE to the NL on the way to a likely Series run?
    I am. :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
    To any who are huffing and puffing in high dudgeon at the thought of talking about Baseball and Cheez Doodles while the world is burning with fever, so to speak… lighten up, Francis.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrllCZw8jiM
    Life is too short to get so tied up in anything, let alone “CFN-think”, to forego enjoying life’s small, simple pleasures…like sports.
    Tho’ I will admit that the Super Bowls are becoming so grotesque that the increasingly excellent football is so overshadowed by ubermeschly corporo-patriotism and grotesquely obscene celebrity outright demigodly worship with a massive slathering of gooey and sticky napalm of the Military-Industrial-Media-Intelligence-Complex (MIMIC) is the game itself is becoming increasingly difficult to enjoy and I don’t care how good the football is.
    Cheez Doodles will one day be passed around like eight-balls of coke and be TWICE as expensive.
    Gen.Hancock1863
    CFNation Post 6 & 7/8ths
    Mid-Atlantic Chapter

  49. mow March 7, 2011 at 10:55 am #

    this entire energy mess was the fault of Spiro Agnew
    lmfao

  50. JonathanSS March 7, 2011 at 10:55 am #

    talking with my neighbor the other day and he informed me that “THEY” know there is enough oil in the USA to last us for hundreds of years if those goddamn left wing bastards would just get out of the way and let the good folks at BP, Exxon, Shell…

    Interesting. I was talking to one of my neighbors, in his early 60’s, who has a vacation home 500 miles from here and the conversation went like this (we’re both in education):
    me: “I envision a time when more students get information via some type of tablet computer, rather than lugging around big textbooks.”
    him: “What if they can’t be charged due to electrical supply disruptions.”
    me: I think our electrical grid is fairly reliable for now. I’m much more concerned about gasoline supplies.
    him: I read that Prudhoe Bay on the North of Alaska has massive amounts of oil that could take care of us.
    me: How many billions of barrels of recoverable oil does it contain? (BP estimates 2B, I looked up later)
    him: I don’t know (starting to look defensive).
    me: This is the type of thinking from the likes of right wingers, bubbas and Sarah Palanites along the lines of “there is plenty of oil in the US and we just have to find it”.
    him: You need to learn how to talk to people.
    me: Huh! I do not.
    him: (getting redder and angry) Just go home; you need to go home, go home!
    So I left his presence. Can you guess what stage of the grieving/loss process this guy’s in?:
    1. denial
    2. anger
    3. bargaining
    4. depression/despair
    5. acceptance.

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  51. Lara's Dad March 7, 2011 at 10:56 am #

    and Martin is their dad, if you’re an older generation.

  52. dplainview March 7, 2011 at 10:58 am #

    Ever consider Charlie Sheen as symptomatically embodying these times?
    Readers here should recognize Charlie as a prototype of what is to come when zombie nation rises up.

  53. noel bodie March 7, 2011 at 11:01 am #

    Are you this weeks version of the flamer? The crisis is: unresponsive politics,union busting,lobbyists,9%unemployment,banksters on the loose,2 unwinnable/unfunded wars,economic stagnation,unaffordable healthcare,broke cities/states,school districts, and a population that is confused,demoralized and undereducated to the point of not being able to connect policy to outcomes, and let us not forget LOTS and LOTS of guns. This is just a start add rising energy/food and things could get interesting. I think you have confused crisis with Catastrophe and when that hits the tragic climax will begin to play out.

  54. ccm989 March 7, 2011 at 11:02 am #

    Very true, I can see the days of gas rationing coming soon. Which could force us, as a country, to use oil more efficiently and perhaps really work on developing those alternate energies but we don’t seem to act unless we are pushed to the edge of the cliff. At this point, I feel like we are ALL standing on that edge and its crumbling.
    You’d think with the knowledge that fossil fuel will run out soon enough (although not today, the whole price surge is a result of speculators), that Big Oil would plan ahead for the days when alternative energy is the only thing available so they could get in on the ground floor but I don’t see them doing that. Its like they are going to suck out all the profit they can and then let civilization crash & burn. Their own grandchildren aren’t even enough to inspire them to look ahead.
    The Tea Baggers are in a total state of denial (even sadder than tiresome old George Will). Baggers are against the High Speed rail and apparently even the use of freight trains. They claim the government’s plan for smart energy use is a COMMUNIST PLOT. Apparently the Tea Partiers are on the same stuff tiresome young Charlie Sheen is on — Other Reality. We already have the infrastructure for trains and trains can run on coal (which we actually have lots of). But when you use Other Reality none of that matters. Other Reality — sponsored by FOX News.

  55. Hancock1863 March 7, 2011 at 11:03 am #

    Spot on, montysanto, Smokyjoe, lbendet, and most especially Cabra1080.
    Love that turn of phrase.

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  56. Vlad Krandz March 7, 2011 at 11:10 am #

    Cohort of morons is right. My sense of George Will and people like him is that while they think they are defending the American Way they are really just defending the benefits of their class. Some of them know it and some of them don’t. Will I believe, does not. In any case, individualism is something to worry about on a full stomach. If we wanted to fight for it, that should have been done when they started to ship our jobs overseas and when they started to bring in high tech workers from South Asia. Of course the rot of illegal immigration was already established, but that only hurt the poor so nobody cared – certainly not the “Liberals” whose criterion of social justice was based on not having White skin.

  57. JonathanSS March 7, 2011 at 11:12 am #

    Don’t blame only liberals for illegal immigration. Look at our corporate masters who hire them & our gov’t, who is complicit.

  58. sevenmmm March 7, 2011 at 11:15 am #

    George Will doesn’t know what a bike is for.

  59. Warren Peace March 7, 2011 at 11:16 am #

    uhhh…sorry Charlie, but your stats don’t add up. Consider doing research beyond AM radio:
    Let us consider, starting with the low-hanging fruit, where the money could be found to wipe out the deficits of all 50 states combined, which this year come to a projected $130 billion.
    •The extension of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, enacted by a Democratic-controlled Congress in December with the approval of the Obama administration, pumps $700 billion over the next ten years into the pockets of the rich. Reclaiming two years of that tax windfall would eliminate all the state budget deficits combined.
    •Total compensation at Wall Street banks and securities firms last year hit a record $135 billion, according to an analysis by the Wall Street Journal, on all-time-high revenue of $417 billion. The recipients of the Wall Street bailout could bail out the states out of their own pockets.
    •The 400 richest individuals in the United States dispose of a staggering $1.37 trillion in assets, an average of nearly $3.5 billion apiece. A levy of 10 percent on the resources of these billionaires would also erase the deficits of all 50 states.
    •Combined profits for all American corporations rocketed upwards in 2010, hitting an annual rate of $1.66 trillion in the third quarter. A tax of eight percent on those profits—the same percentage as the cut Walker seeks to impose on schoolteachers and park rangers—would eliminate all state deficits.
    •US corporations are currently sitting on $2 trillion in cash, refusing to hire workers despite collecting tax cuts that are supposed to be incentives to do so. A levy of 10 percent on that idle cash would provide enough money to eliminate not only the deficits of the states, but the deficits of all cities and local governments too, as well as preserving the jobs of hundreds of thousands of public employees.
    •Hedge funds assets rose to $1.92 trillion in 2010, the highest ever, up from $1.18 trillion at the beginning of the year. Given a standard earnings formula of 2 percent of total assets plus 20 percent of the increase, hedge fund bosses stood to collect roughly $186 billion in personal income. An 80 percent tax on that income—less than the percentage rate on multimillionaires levied under the Eisenhower administration—would produce more than enough revenue to put all 50 states in the black. (It should be pointed out that the top hedge fund manager, John Paulson, had a personal net profit of more than $5 billion in 2010, while more than a dozen hedge fund bosses had personal incomes above $2 billion and many more took in over $1 billion).
    Contrary to the claims of the politicians and the media, it is not difficult to find the money to close the state and local budget gaps, with enough left over to begin a massive social rebuilding program. Implementing just some of the above proposals would generate sufficient funds, for example, to provide jobs in the next two months for 5 million Americans.

  60. Hancock1863 March 7, 2011 at 11:16 am #

    me: How many billions of barrels of recoverable oil does it contain? (BP estimates 2B, I looked up later)
    him: I don’t know (starting to look defensive).
    me: This is the type of thinking from the likes of right wingers, bubbas and Sarah Palanites along the lines of “there is plenty of oil in the US and we just have to find it”.
    him: You need to learn how to talk to people.
    me: Huh! I do not.
    him: (getting redder and angry) Just go home; you need to go home, go home!

    Pretty infantile, no? He would have taken a poke at you, I bet, had you stayed in his face and if he was bigger than you. The RW Lie Machine has brought their Right-Wing Authoritarian Follower’s nature to the fore, whereas if our national discourse and political system were healthy, would not be as dangerous as the razor to our collective throats he and the millions of Hannidiots, Beckerheads, and Savage Weiners out there.
    Our Kinder-and-Gentler-Brownshirt-in-Training cadre. Was he a big beefy guy? Will he make a good Economic Relocation Camp Guard? Can you see him jamming his billy club in Jimmy Carter’s stomach as the old man collapses gasping to the dusty exercise yard?
    This what years of dumbing down the education system combined with massive mass behavioral psychological manipulation (even if it isn’t all a big coordinated CT but just a whole bunch of immoral Alpha assholes, men and women moving a bunch of product and stealing everything that isn’t nailed down) has resulted in.
    The Perfect Consumer.
    Which is just a gussied up way of saying The Perfect Feudal Slave. Dukedom without the mandatory bowing, Kingdom without the crown, scepter, and ermine.
    Want to understand the phenomena better, so as to better understand what is happening so that when this train wreck gets closer to it’s Final Destination you will be a step ahead of everyone else?
    Start with this:
    http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
    You won’t regret reading it.

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  61. Cabra1080 March 7, 2011 at 11:23 am #

    Here’s the rub. Human “civilization” has been around for thousands of years, subsisting off of the land using whatever “solar” energy came trickling down into the plants, wind and streams. Industrial “civilization” has been around for only a couple of hundred years. In that mere 200 years we have burned through most of the “fossil” resources to build up huge, resource-intensive, mega industrial complex that people just a few centuries before could not have imagined.
    This edifice was built on the premise of ever-greater inputs of energy and raw materials from a finite earth to keep an expanding economy growing on this same finite earth. When the fossil fuels, water and materials are used up then technology is “expected” provide an “app” to create more energy, materials, water and land mass for growing populations out of thin air. As they say, there’s an “app” for that. Sounds too good to be true, doesn’t it?
    What remains to be seen is how this zombie populace will react when the lights go out and the pumps run dry. That’s in the next chapter of the Long Emergency…
    Keep up the good work Jim; you are a true seer.

  62. Cash March 7, 2011 at 11:28 am #

    You’re losing the Canada you love because someone is profiting from it. – Wage
    Wage, re your reply to my comment last week, whose side am I on? I thought it was self evident from my comments. It’s not on the side of the financier/CEO kleptocracy. It’s on the side of the of the average joe and his wife and kids. And yes, someone is profiting from it. But there’s more to it than just a matter of money.
    And I guess I’m culturally deficient, I didn’t recognize the song.
    The left vs right thing up here isn’t totally artificial. You don’t understand the extent of the rot up here Wage. That’s fine, you don’t live here after all. But I’m immersed in it.
    Let me give a quick example: If I were to assemble a couple hundred Americans, randomly drawn off the street and if I were to give them a list of names and places: Audie Murphy, Douglas MacArthur, George Patton, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Vicksburg, Gettysburg – I would bet that you’d get a large proportion of people knowing who these guys were and what those place names are about.
    If I were to do the same in Canada: Aubrey Cosens, Arthur Currie, Big Jim Stone, Passchendaele, Beaumont Hamel (a tip of the hat to the Newfies), the Scheldt, Kapyong – hardly anyone would recognize those people or places.
    It’s as if we’ve scrubbed these things from our collective consciousness. This is just one example. We don’t know who we are or where we’ve been.

  63. Ed March 7, 2011 at 11:30 am #

    First: Relative to your question “viz: who gave this cohort of morons the right to tell us what to do and think?”
    That depends on WHICH group of morons are you talking about? The Hosni Mubaraks and Mullahs of Iran and doddering 7th century kings of the house of Saud who are in charge of these countries? OR are we talking about the morons in the crowds, regardless of which country, who assaulted the now formerly liberal TV reporters and other correspondents (who were, in fact, the best friends and advocates of their cause)and who reported their crowds as being modern day Jeffersons and Kasimir Pulaskis mounted on camels, when in fact they are modernly educated 7th century people wanting to reinstate sharia law so that they can spend their Sunday afternoons NOT watching the NFL, but watching a good stoning or beheading for adultery (women ONLY being sentenced, of course) before giving their wives their weekly beating, whether they need it or not, and prior to chasing down a daughter for a good old-fashioned honor killing. Face it! The whole middle east is composed of barbarian people, and they are all, by and large, morons motivated by religion and emotion. Being a moron is an equal opportunity state of being, regardless of how much, or how little, money and political influence you have.

  64. Stephen_B March 7, 2011 at 11:36 am #

    I think the future of passenger rail is in plain, old, conventional rail, not high speed given the latter’s astronomical price tag.
    When the sheer impossibility of maintaining the intercity/interstate highways manifests itself in the coming decade, given our broke governments and hot mix asphalt and diesel prices that will go up 3 to 5 times the present, governments will be partnering with the likes of Warren Buffet and the other rail owners to get some bare-bones passenger rail, back on the tracks, literally.
    Maybe bus operators, who will be enjoying increased ridership, but having to deal increasingly with broken pavement and closed and rerouted bridges, will jump into rail as well.
    It won’t happen overnight, because, even with much diminished maintenance on the highways, it’s going to take some years for them to really start falling apart, but time is not on the interstate/car model’s side and fall apart they will.
    This is something that the electric car crowd really just doesn’t get either. That is, the roads are still built with much oil, diesel, and in the case of concrete roads, natural gas. There will be rebellion at the various schemes to tax and provide revenue for road repair in light of the rapidly declining gas and diesel per gallon taxes. That is, electric car owners will want to plug in, unplug, and drive on roads sans taxes, and the roads, given much increased construction costs, and the lack of fuel taxes, just will never be what, up to now, they have been.
    People will start pulling coaches from the tourist railroads to run on the remaining rails, one way or the other. There will be no $$$ for high speed rail.
    Notice that we don’t even have to talk about air service at all anymore in these future travel discussions.

  65. newworld March 7, 2011 at 11:36 am #

    Are you saying the RWs run the education system?
    As for this tax the rich schemes, they sound good, but let me ask what percentage are they paying now of all those billions they are skimming off the top?
    As an Illinois resident I pay an estimated 25% of my income as taxes, not including sales tax which for the most part are discressionary expenditures.
    And I’m pretty much resigned to the fact that the wealthy are Democratic party supporters of tax the middle class till they beg on their knees types. I don’t expect much from the Dems except they will move the AMT just past government high level hack wages so they won’t pay.

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  66. budizwiser March 7, 2011 at 11:37 am #

    [blockquote]George Will may even find himself having to ride a bicycle down the freeway in his head.[/blockquote]Or better yet, perhaps George [i]could[/i]take the train down the freeway.
    After reviewing a little history, especially that of America, the automobile and the “Interstate Highways Act,” – it dawns on me that most logical course of action is a complete reversal of infrastructure support for Interstate highways and another “unprecedented” Federal outlay for nation-wide passenger/truck rail service.
    My tiny-minded perspective suggests a mix of developments which would build upon currently efficient rail corridors by expanding their capacity to carry passenger trains without disruption from freight operations.
    In other areas feeder rail lines would use existing interstate highway right-of-ways to “patch” locations that have no existing rail corridors.
    I’ve looked around America, and what I’ve seen shows that our Federal Highway Act effectively doomed efficient passenger transportation and much rail freight operations. Another Federal Railway Act could bring back efficiencies to passenger and light-freight operations.
    Screw “high-speed” bullshit – what is needed is the outright abandonment of all but one or two nation-wide highways and a complete federal endorsement of all freight and passenger travel by rail. The truckers can still carry the goods the last 100 or 200 hundred miles.
    To see an example of what the FHA did to a typical urban area’s rail operations take a look here.
    http://notesting9.wordpress.com/

  67. SNAFU March 7, 2011 at 11:39 am #

    Howdy tragic, Per your clip: “Never mind the fact that if you were to tax 100% of the income of people in the top 1% of income brackets that it still wouldn’t be enough to balance the budget.”
    How about we claw back all of the money the top 1% has squirreled away over the last 2-300 years and let them live on the same crumb size allotments they think are deserving for the rest of humanity. If that does not take care of the debts we tell the creditors to “step the fuck off”.
    Perhaps this concept is occurring in the Mid-East eh?
    SNAFU

  68. ffkling March 7, 2011 at 11:41 am #

    Jimmy Carter had the guts to warn the American people that the country must break its addiction to fossil fuels. Furthermore, in the four short year’s of his presidency Carter was successful in reducing America’s import of foreign oil by 50%.
    The Reagan administration’s first presidential act was to remove the solar panels that Carter had installed on the White House roof. The Reaganites argued that America was built on consumption,not the moral virtues of Carter’s conservation push.
    The American people rewarded Carter with a re-election defeat and Reagan with an additional four years.
    Tell ’em what they want to hear, not need to know.

  69. Hancock1863 March 7, 2011 at 11:42 am #

    To: ProgorCons and all the rest of CFN…everyone:
    ————————————
    I exited stage left/center on Friday with a big ol’ smile on my face, and one that lasted all through this lovely spring weekend, even rainy yesterday.
    How could I possibly imagine the most hilarious and enjoyable outcome was awaiting my return to CFN before dawn this morning, to catch up on the thread and read JHKs newest Monday morning laugh-fest?
    You all saw it. Seven minutes after I left. SEVEN…MINUTES.
    That’s all it took. Classic David Spade passive-aggresive wormy, cowardly, weasel. Classic RW Authoritarian Follower’s impotent projection. Classic and oh so precious. (claps hands and laughs)
    And did you see that SnowflakeII and RI ACTUALLY WOUND UP ON THE SAME SIDE FOR A COUPLE POSTS? I can die now. I have seen everything and need to see no more in this world. Time to see if God really exists…………………. ;P
    (pantomimes imaginary thumb and forefinger gun to temple)
    And now… playing on CFN radio – call letters WLBTRD 108.7 FM is DJ Bluebelly HC Hammer and this song is a shout out to his little nails out there, you know who you are!
    **********************************************
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qljzunen80k
    **********************************************

    Remember the posts he made to me when his rabidity was just starting to ratchet up where he said he thought I was watching every word scrolling by with my veins pounding or something, you remember? When in fact, there is demontsrable evidence now that SnowflakeII was describing himself is his diatribes.
    Wonderful! Seven…fucking…minutes is all it took. I could not have asked for anything else better.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2THs3oNooM
    Living well and being happy are the best revenge, are they not, ProgressorConserve? I think I have made abundantly clear what I was talking about regarding baiting fools for entertainment purposes and I hope I have given you some thoughts about how to more swiftly resolve your RI issues that only degrade you and empower him, no matter how much you might not want that not to be true.
    Gen.Hancock1863
    CFNation Post 6 & 7/8ths
    Mid-Atlantic Chapter
    P.S. Holy crap! Did you get a load of that guy (or gal) NewWorld, last week and now again this week. Talk about a laughably textbook Hannidiot! Talk about a brainless parrot!
    “Blank Slate Theory! Blank Slate Theory! Rrrraaaaawwwwkkk!”
    The transparent mendacity of a toddler, whee! The Crying Wrestling Fan comes to CFN! Can you believe infantile weak-minded idiots like this have brought our beautiful old USA so low? I did all my raging and crying, now it’s time to laugh.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvTNyKIGXiI
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpjrPC6ngH0
    (said in fast-taling lawyer end-of-commercial radio voice)
    “This post does not imply any disrespect to NWA or to the legions of honest and honorable wrestling fans and crying wrestling fans, who at age 30 or later still enjoy wearing their Terry Funk Underoos while enjoying a fine night of the Hannity-Beck Double Hour of Power on Fox.”

  70. katnip kid March 7, 2011 at 11:48 am #

    Rabblechat,
    Why wait until gas gets to be 4 bucks a gallon to ride your bike to work, etc? Isn’t $3 plus a gallon bad enough? I tried to walk as much as can be done where we live, but with no sidewalks and no side of the road, it is a taking your life in your hands. Still, the more folks see people like us actually doing something different in terms of lifestyle, the more the idea gains credibility and popularity.
    Here’s a thought for everyone: folks spend lots of money to join area health clubs, but I never see them incorporating exercise and health into their daily lives. They don’t walk or cycle to work,and want the parking space closest to the door at the supermarket. The local fast food joint is a favorite hangout for the the local gym crowd!! What a hoot! Ha! Let’s see how long that lasts!
    I try to bring up the conversation with co-workers, neighbors and friends about rising gas prices, PO and all, but they just shrug it off or dismiss the idea as kooky. It seems some folks have enough income to absorb the cost, at least for now. Must be nice.

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  71. helen highwater March 7, 2011 at 11:48 am #

    Hi Newfie – are you really a Newfie? My father was born there when it was its own country, not part of Canada. I don’t know who Charlie Sheen is either, being one of those weird people who doesn’t watch TV, but I’m sure if you Googled him something would come up.

  72. ozone March 7, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    “Reality Optional Nation”
    Perfect.
    Although I should be inoculated against it by now, I’m consistently surprised at the heat of the deniers that come to this site and spray the place with their spittle of denial and explosive diarrhea of cherry-picked “facts” and bat-shit crazy political rectitude.
    Maybe I’m finally getting it. It’s appearing to be all about fear and being irretrievably spoiled.
    I guess if one can “refute” the future and present realities of which Mr. Kunstler writes so well and entertainingly, it simply won’t come about, and the status quo of toys and never-ending comfort will continue forever.
    I’d like to tell these “folks” that they probably shouldn’t bet their kids’ lives on that, but it’s not going to get through the cocoon. No more bothering with that from this sector. (For which, they’ll likely think they’ve “won” somehow. Just watch.)

  73. katnip kid March 7, 2011 at 11:51 am #

    Rabblechat,
    In my response to your post, I hit submit too soon. I didn’t mean it to end sounding like I was criticizing you, or to imply you could afford high gas prices!
    It was a late night last night! I apologize for any implied nastiness!

  74. newworld March 7, 2011 at 11:53 am #

    Hannity is a Blank Slater, he is your “respectable conservative” opposition.
    Wordism is dying. Magic thinking while fun is still magic thinking.
    Its why I say, “The left is comprised of cults rigidly segregated.” Because if it were not segregated it would splinter into a million pieces that not even Sean Hannity could puff up into a juggernaut that his “opposition” to sells books.
    You back to the Earth white liberals don’t even have the decency to ask the colored folk outside your coalition what they think, you “assume” they share your ideology. Last I noticed LaRaza and the NAACP existed to get more for their people, and more does not mean giving up the cars, the bling and the stupid pop culture you all deride.
    Hating white people and displacing their children is evil and that is about the only thing the Left has in common, cuz its certainly not a love for organic farming (a demo whiter than the KKK)

  75. ozone March 7, 2011 at 11:53 am #

    Excellent, youse guys!
    “…stages of grief…” yep
    Got nothin’ to add! ;o)

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  76. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 11:54 am #

    Actually George Will’s observation is right on though the conclusion he draws from it is totally whacked.

    Automobiles encourage people to think they — unsupervised, untutored, and unscripted — are masters of their fates.

    Not too bad really even if that thought looks like it came from some of Charlie Sheen’s blow.
    It is true that bombing down the freeway at 70 mph gives one a deluded sense of freedom and independence.
    I don’t agree with George that having people believe something that’s not true is a good thing, apparently he does.
    If we eliminated cars and TV maybe we might embrace the ideas of the men of:

    powdered wig and waistcoat

    . But that’s my delusion.
    My TV-B-Gone is in the mail, I’m getting the kit.
    Now if I can make a kit with a strong enough Electromagnetic Pulse to bring the freeways to a screeching standstill…….
    I’d be doing my part to build RReality Mandatory Nation.
    That would be a good thing but making an EMP pulse generator work off a nine volt battery is kind of hard.

  77. ozone March 7, 2011 at 11:58 am #

    “George Will doesn’t know what a bike is for.” -7MMM
    Sure he does! A bike is for seat-sniffin’ after the female rider has dismounted.
    (Heck, everybody know THAT. ;o)

  78. Cash March 7, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    Newfie, a while back someone said they’d never been to a McDonalds. Jackieblue says it was her but I seem to remember it was someone else. Was it you per chance? Seriously, you never heard of Charlie Sheen? If you’re not bullshitting then a tip of the hat to you. And if it was you that had never been to a McD’s then a second tip of the hat. And why don’t you own a TV? Just curious.

  79. Hancock1863 March 7, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    To: Wagelaborer
    —————-
    I was watching some good old Western movie faves with friends recently and had a momentary thought of you.
    It occurred to me that I was watching one that reminded me of CFN, metaphorically-speaking. It’s sort of a tongue in cheek tip of the hat to the old Clint Eastwood spaghetti Westerns of the late 60s, but with a decidedly modern bent.
    I don’t know if you enjoy Westerns; many Liberals and Lefties don’t. Their loss.
    Anyway, the movie is called “The Quick and the Dead” and one of the protagonists is played by Sharon Stone, who plays a female gunslinger come to town to fight a gunfighting contest with a bunch of…er…um…louts for a $100,000 prize.
    I don’t want to say anymore lest I spoil it for you, but that if you watch the movie know that I consider you to be the Sharon Stone of our little CFN town.
    I guess that would make JHK the “John Herod” character – LOL – and if you decide to watch the movie know that your character, Sharon Stone, gives the “Vlad” Character, played by a barely-recognizable Kevin Conway, a poetic and very satisfying outcome.
    Give it a try if you want. I think you would enjoy it, even if Westerns aren’t usually your thing for it’s not a typical Western at all.
    Both funny and sad, very nuanced, with a sophisticated plot that doesn’t bore. And you may find the Sharon Stone/Kevin Conway denounment entertaining and even a bit cathartic.

  80. Cash March 7, 2011 at 12:05 pm #

    Wage, I found that Pete Seeger song.

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  81. daofirry2 March 7, 2011 at 12:10 pm #

    A few weeks ago, I flew from New England out to California, to visit family. I almost didn’t go, because I was so terrified about the state of the world. But, I reasoned that if TSHTF, at least I would be with my family… anyway, I was happy to have a clear enough sense of geography to be able to know where we were travelling over, on the plane, from Boston to Chicago, until it clouded up. (Ski resorts in Vermont, the whale-shaped Lake Oneida, the Great Lakes, Detroit, and a few other very distinct markers constituted a terrific cheat sheet). Jim, I waved, as we flew a bit to the south (I think) of your abode. I am absolutely confident that you will remember this, very clearly.
    Anyway… I don’t want to make this too long, but while I was out there, we went on a tour of a Jelly Belly jellybean factory. Ohhhhhh, the essay you could write about that place! I think I spaced out on parts of the tour, mentally, because I was trying to imagine what you would say about it. At least, a few months or years ago, you would have written a great essay about it. Now, it seems that we all have far more pressing concerns… Seriously, the whole tour was about how they process thousands and thousands of tons of sugar into tens of millions of jellybeans. There were insane-looking enormous robots everywhere, doing most of the work… the tour guide cheerfully explained how the robots were gradually taking everyone’s jobs away. There were mosaics on the walls, of various American presidents, Elvis, James Dean, a bald eagle, etc etc etc, made entirely of jellybeans. Yes, Ronald Reagan had MANY mosaics devoted to him. I looked for a mosaic of that crying Native American man from the anti-pollution commercials of the 1970s, but I didn’t see one. In the lobby, they had a completely gratuitous machine with which small children could take their own pennies, from their own pockets, and make them worthless by crushing them, via a powerful (safe, but powerful) hand-operated set of levers and gears, so the pennies looked like a freight train had run over them, and them stamping their now-worthless pennies permanently with the logo of the jelly bean factory. Somehow, that machine was just so perfect, to cap off the tour… The line for the machine was enormous, as you can well imagine.
    They gave out free samples at every stop on the tour. Even my nieces felt sick… I was on the verge of death. The adults in the line, me included, were making plenty of nervous diabetes jokes. We may have missed the inconvenient fact that there was very little that was funny, happening there.
    Seemed worth mentioning.

  82. ozone March 7, 2011 at 12:12 pm #

    “Let me give a quick example: If I were to assemble a couple hundred Americans, randomly drawn off the street and if I were to give them a list of names and places: Audie Murphy, Douglas MacArthur, George Patton, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Vicksburg, Gettysburg – I would bet that you’d get a large proportion of people knowing who these guys were and what those place names are about.” -Cash
    You’d be very much wrong, and I’d hope you didn’t put much on that bet.

  83. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 12:14 pm #

    Vlad,
    Wonders never cease. I read your post and can’t believe it but we agree almost 100% right down the line. Except for your last sentence.

  84. helen highwater March 7, 2011 at 12:17 pm #

    Hi Newfie – (my father was born on the Rock before it was part of Canada – I’ve always wondered if Newfoundland got screwed in that deal). Well I don’t know who Charlie Sheen is either, since I’m one of those weird people who never watches TV, but I suppose he is some character in the media. You could find out if you Google him, but maybe it’s better not to, because as a previous poster said, just knowing who he is might kill some of your brain cells.

  85. dubiousfacts March 7, 2011 at 12:19 pm #

    Claw back from the rich and balance the budgets. Build a high speed rail network, manufacture it here, rehire the teachers, fire fighters and police officers. If its all about jobs then lets have more real jobs, not more speculators. Tell the PTB its not going to be every man for himself, its going to be one country for all.
    But before this can happen we need one brave man to step forward and level with the American people about what’s been going on since the Corporate Coup d’Etat of 1963. To embrace the truth about our history will enable a moral cleansing and a clear eyed view of the dire energy future we now confront. Its time for America to grow up and put away the toys and delusions of childhood. Can you step up, Mr. Obama?

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  86. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    He hasn’t so far and now he has had enough time.
    He has shown his stripes and they don’t include civil rights.

  87. Al Klein March 7, 2011 at 12:24 pm #

    KATNIP KID, I get a kick out of your typification of your local gym crowd. Let me give you a chuckle in a similar vein. The gym I go to is connected to a local hospital, both organizationally and physically. Because of this there are powered doors for entry as well as regular doors. With relatively few exceptions, gym members press the buttons to open the powered doors rather than pull the manual doors to gain entry. Hilarious! Then too there are the great number of enormous, vulgar SUVs parked in the parking area. The per capita number of large SUVs is striking. I have wondered whether there is some arcane connection between having a monstrous SUV and going to a gym? I will say that this gym is fairly upscale. It is not part of a low-cost chain. Accordingly the membership has a greater percentage of the more affluent residents of the area. So what does that say about their mentality that they should be driving road behemoths? These are the people who drive the aspirations of the masses.
    The future ain’t looking very promising.

  88. newworld March 7, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    Hogwash k-dog without whites as the stand in bogeyman the left collapses. The beehive for the Left’s fringe cults Kos can’t go a whole thread without one of the minders bashing whites (heads nod in agreement).
    On a free forum the white haters are driven underground rather quickly, Vlad did that here in a few days but at a moderated site with cult minders it is a bashapalooza.
    The joke called “anti-racism” is nothing but a codeword for anti-white. Without it the tofu eaters dreaming of clean safe public transportation have no commonality with the “oppressed” people of color who want stuff, ergo the Left falls apart.

  89. Hancock1863 March 7, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    To: EDPELL and the rest of CFN
    ——————————-

    Can you comment on this claim in today’s Daily Mail?
    “Joule claims, for instance, that its cyanobacterium can produce 15,000 gallons of diesel full per acre annually, over four times more than the most efficient algal process for making fuel. And they say they can do it at $30 (£18.45) a barrel.”
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1361814/Scientists-make-diesel-fuel-using-sun-water-carbon-dioxide.html
    Thanks.
    If true the energy crisis is over.

    I’m going to look into this and come back with a molecular biologist’s opinion on it – it’s abit afield of my main areas of knowledge for me to say anything without more study, which will take time.
    How long? No idea. Hang around if you want, Ed. I’ll still look into it and come to CFN and chat about it, regardless, some time.
    Plus, since in all likelihood I’ll be looking at abstracts instead of the full peer-reviewed journal articles (damn those $$$-firewalls!), it may be that I still won’t have a GREAT knowledge of the process.
    Any other CFN leftie, hippie, tiny-ponytail-wearin’, patchouli-smellin’ bio-types want to chime in, in a timelier fashion? Be my guest.

  90. helen highwater March 7, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

    I don’t know which planet you’re living on, but every time I go to a news website I see something that proves that Jim has been right all along. All his predictions are going to come true. Stick around, the party’s not over yet. And I daresay those of us who have been paying attention to what he says are going to be a bit more prepared for a world made by hand than those who think it’s all bullshit.

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  91. Qshtik March 7, 2011 at 12:29 pm #

    Do you really know that little of economics and history? Or are you just generally a complete moron?
    ============
    Could this possibly be Tootsie under, yet, another new name?

  92. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown March 7, 2011 at 12:31 pm #

    Divide and conquer. LOL.

  93. mow March 7, 2011 at 12:32 pm #

    i can’t wait for gasoline to cost ten dollars per gallon .
    then i will be able to walk to the beer store without fear of being run over.
    assholes !

  94. newworld March 7, 2011 at 12:33 pm #

    Daughter an A/B student first year of college, no clue who MacArthur was. Well versed on MLK thru her black teacher in HS though.

  95. Al Klein March 7, 2011 at 12:33 pm #

    DubiousFacts, could you elucidate on the Corporate Coup d’Etat of 1963? I was in high school in 1963, so I remember the time. I also remember my parents being told by a teacher at my high school regarding my graduation class, “after them the deluge.” The comment seemed both cryptic and quite ominous. That was in the mid-60’s. Obviously, something must have been clear to this teacher. Is it connected to your comment about 1963?

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  96. Newfie March 7, 2011 at 12:38 pm #

    Hi Helen – I live on The Rock, but I’m not a native. I’m one of those weird people that does not own or watch a TV. A long time ago I decided TV programming was just that – mind numbing, brain cell destroying, mind crack – so I stayed away from it. Peak oil is going to be interesting here. Newfoundland produces oil but all of it is shipped to The Empire. All refined petroleum products are imported, some from Araby. And almost all of the food on The Rock comes by boat from the mainland. Any oil scarcity is going to translate into a crisis in this forgotten corner of the world. Hah! I don’t know who President Bartlett is either. Thank Dog for that.

  97. dubiousfacts March 7, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

    I guess they figure they are compensating for being bloated energy and resource hogs by “working out”, ie: producing nothing and sending their personal energy into the same void that their tailpipes feed – the rapidly deteriorating Earth and its oceans and atmosphere.
    No doubt it all helps them feel superior to the little people who actually work, as seen from the majesty of their high riding heated leather power seats. Too bad they don’t realize that their asses are going down with all the rest.

  98. helen highwater March 7, 2011 at 12:44 pm #

    If you think everything Jim says is bullshit and all the people who don’t agree with you are morons and idiots, why don’t you just stop coming here? Are you actually the same person as tootsie and a few other people that have been posting here in the past? A little common politeness and civility will go a long way in the future we are facing. Why not start practicing it now?

  99. bproman March 7, 2011 at 12:46 pm #

    Does this mean that the price of a hot dog, soda, peanuts, and popcorn at the ball park will soon be going up ?

  100. Laura Louzader March 7, 2011 at 12:50 pm #

    I read George Will’s remarks regarding the revival of railroads, and I don’t perceive his comments as necessarily “anti rail”.
    The High Speed rail plan as conceived by the Obama administration is nothing more than a costly boondogle that will build high speed where it is needed the least and where it cannot support itself.
    As Kunstler himself has remarked on several occasions, our government will become increasingly ineffectual in the LE, and any system dependent upon government support is doomed. The “high speed” rail system is doomed from the inception, as it will supply HS service where there is little demand for any rail while neglecting important markets. Worse, it will be too expensive to justify itself and service will end up being infrequent and unreliable because the customer base will not be there to support it.
    What we need is Rapid Rail, which is speeds of 100- 150MPH, such as what we had in the golden days of private railroads. It is better to run trains reliably and frequently at 80-110mph, a speed that is much more economical from the standpoint of both energy costs and the cost of building the roadbed and equipment, than it is to build a super expensive super=fast system that will require much more energy to run and will also require vastly more expensive infrastructure and equipment, and will only be able to run infrequently.
    My belief is that private railroads such as Union Pacific and Burlington Northern will be happy to step into the gap and provide this service as once they did, IF, and only if, they are assured of a level playing field, which we do not have right now. At this time, railroads are operating in an excessively regulated environment, under regulations promulgated 60 years ago that were designed to destroy our railroads- and we are now tossing massive subsidies in the tens of billions in subsidies to the private air carriers, as well as subsidizing airports and air control.
    Remove the subsidies to the railroads’ competition- automobiles and airplanes- and revamp rail regulation, and we will have railroads again.

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  101. Buck Stud March 7, 2011 at 12:51 pm #

    Zen 17,
    I agree wholeheartedly with your message, but you need to give proper attribution to the muddy water posting on your blog site. I know exactly where it came right down to the page number,and who exactly should be credited–BFK on LHC.
    Yeah, I met the man in 79, gliding across the floor doing that last element. Stayed with him quite a long time, too.

  102. helen highwater March 7, 2011 at 12:59 pm #

    Actually, Jonathan, saying stuff like “This is the type of thinking from the likes of right wingers, bubbas and Sarah Palanites” probably isn’t the best way to get your point across to your neighbour.

  103. popcine March 7, 2011 at 1:00 pm #

    It’s better to explain things to people who don’t share your views, and if they haven’t a clue, that’s best of all. So, it’s the letters to the editor in newspapers and magazines, radio talk shows, any forum besides an Internet site populated by those who’ve already heard what you want to say. We are an eccentric voice of doom to most people. They will listen, entertained by the novelty.
    We are not without remedies. The exercise of law. A constitutional convention to curtail the structure of spending, and the assumptions of big government. No more reelection campaigns paid by the profits of lobbyists. No more federally-mandated spending programs. An end to the litigation society. Tax plastic. Tax gas and coal, build nuclear power. Build trains.
    Our doom approaches, let’s yell about it, decorum no longer matters.

  104. loveday March 7, 2011 at 1:03 pm #

    Hi Jim and all the gang,
    Reality really does appear to be optional in this country!! Watching Charlie Sheen be devoured by the media in a cannibalistic frenzy that would make a school of pirahnas look tame, was well sad and scary. What really struck me was how all the interviewers actually treated him as a sane guy and this was somehow accepted as valid journalism. When it was very apparent the guy is in some serious need of detox and psychiatric treatment. I guess all that fame and money drove him crazy. But we see that all the time with the young entertainers who brave the industry and are subsequently chewed up and spit out, if they are lucky alive, plenty don’t make it out alive.
    As for Libya, at least Bob Gates injected some desparately needed reality onto the proposed no fly zone nonsense. The sec def’s red light on the project shows an awareness on some level of the gov’t that the US is in too deep and simply can’t take on one more war. Hopefully this awareness will continue to seep into the consciousness of the nation to force some real change, like slashing the pentagon budget by 50 to 75%. Wouldn’t that be nice, oh well a person’s got to have some nice daydreams in these “times that try men’s souls”.
    I find myself thinking “I smell the seventies” every time I pass a freshly raised price on gas. In our neck of the woods gas is up this am to $3.69 a gallon, so yeeehaaa, break out the saddles and ponies cause we’re gonna need em!
    loveday
    Have a great week gang

  105. dubiousfacts March 7, 2011 at 1:03 pm #

    Read thse 2 books: JFK and The Unspeakable, and Blood, Money and Power: How LBJ Killed JFK. To me this is highly convincing evidence that a rude conspiracy of Texas oil money and elements of the CIA/Defence Contractors complex planned the execution of an American President, thus turning history in their favor and against the interests of citizen idealism and world peace.
    The subsequent coverup of the facts created a schizoid split in the consciousness of the American people, a frightened unwillingness to question authority, and led to the creation of the cowed class of consumer droids we see around us today.

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  106. jerry March 7, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    Charlie’s Sheen has now turned sour and gray!
    Anyway, oil is climbing in price. It really has nowhere else to go but up. Since the psychopathetic Libyan leader of autocratic insane dictators has unleashed his terror upon his people and the production of oil, which is the mainstay of his economy, his oil production and delivery systems are being “cratered”.
    Obama continues to flap his tongue all around the inside of his mouth delivering a message with little substance. The Reichwing Chicken Hawks who were so “gun ho” to go into Iraq and Afghanistan cannot decide if a No Fly Zone should be enforced by the US military in order to protect the Libyan protesters. As was earlier reported, The US was going to send refurbished tanks to Gaddafi before the uprising took place. What were they thinking? Let’s reward the insane murderers. But, over the weekend we read that the US corporate elite love dictators. It’s good for business.
    When will the Cheez Curl Crowd of Palin/Bachmann/Scott Walker eaters begin to realize they have been corralled into the new work-for-free labor program, while the elite charge them for working and living with a 17% revolving credit with compounding interest rates of 27% wake up and stampede the bad men?
    Probably never. The Dumb American cannot compete with the guts and vigor of Libyan and Egyptian protesters, or even the Wisconsinite labor protesters. There are just too many Cheez Curls and Pepsi to consume while watching reruns of Mr. Ed and My Favorite Martian while permanently reclined in the Lazy Boy Recliner hoping to continue to receive their government checks.
    http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

  107. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown March 7, 2011 at 1:05 pm #

    The biggest workout-freaks I know all seem to like huge F250 pickups or H2’s etc. I can only assume that whatever is motivating them to have bigger and bigger muscles also guides their thinking in terms of vehicle selection.

  108. rippedthunder March 7, 2011 at 1:07 pm #

    http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html
    36 bucks an ounce? shit i hope the werewolves don’t come tonight. I am meltin’ all my bullets!

  109. helen highwater March 7, 2011 at 1:09 pm #

    Hey k-dog, I’ve got one of those TV B Gones. They’re great. I just have to be discreet when using it in public places so people don’t assault me when they find out why the TV just went off.

  110. rippedthunder March 7, 2011 at 1:09 pm #

    I pick-up heavy tings and I poot dem back down! Dat is wat I do!

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  111. jackieblue2u March 7, 2011 at 1:12 pm #

    Dude we are THERE.
    You must know my husband.
    Our House IS going up in value NOT.
    It’s way under water, we owe twice as much, and pay half the mortgage while we rent the fucker out. It’s beautiful, we can’t live there cuz he is sick and no hospital in that town.
    We’re KEEPING it. He is a bully.
    no fun. taking me down with him.
    Denial. Works for some.
    It ain’t goin’ up in value, not in my lifetime, if ever.
    You guys are living in your own worlds.
    Of course this is just my opinion. But sometimes I get it right.
    In the USA things are not ok. It’s not the peoples’ fault. It’s the guys at the top who took the money and ran.
    I am a simple person but I get the gist of it.

  112. jerry March 7, 2011 at 1:13 pm #

    Regarding high speed rail—all we really need are trains that go from point a to point b that allowed bicycles to be securely hooked up without having to be dismantled first, so we bikers can ride to our destinations. Let us just start with smart policy for our current rail system.
    And, how about more car transporting rail, so we don’t have to drive from Pittsburgh to DC or NYC or Maine on the highway. We just ride with the car on the train and then remove the car once we arrive. This is done now from Virginia to Florida.
    HSR is ridiculous when we cannot even support our economy currently. A HSR through the wine country of California, and the cost that would incur makes no sense. The train to nowhere for billions of dollars.
    GM should have begun to build better engines and rail cars for the existing rail system instead of cars that will be sold in China.
    http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

  113. jackieblue2u March 7, 2011 at 1:17 pm #

    I remember the oil shortage of the 70’s.
    And what I see is when it really happens here, it’s going to be much much more violent.
    Because here where I live in general there is MUCH MORE VIOLENCE. Attitudes, and gangs.
    People drive worse and more aggressive than ever.
    WTF we live in a paradise as far as location goes, but for the most part, it sucks because of the rudeness of others, and so many godamn cars, and tailgaters. They will run you off the road as they look you in the eye. Really, for real.
    Gangsters are robbing folks on West Cliff drive.
    The Tourist Spot. In daylight and night.
    Lovely. They are all over the neighborhood I live in. Creeps. Monsters. Losers.

  114. rippedthunder March 7, 2011 at 1:22 pm #

    It positivly kills me. My neighbors pay for the gym and go there all the time and then they hire someone to push a lawnmower around their yard and to shovel their snow. I say do it yourself you lazy SOB and get some exersize? doing sumthin’ productive. I go to ‘de gym. I pick -up heavy tings and I poot dem back down!

  115. dubiousfacts March 7, 2011 at 1:22 pm #

    The bullying attitude of American foreign policy is unconsciously mirrored by many of its citizens. “Lets go kick some butt” shows up as mass shootings, road rage behaviors, steroid induced beefcake football players and right wing diarretic hate speechers. Its all about “America exceptionalism” but as things unravel that’s going to be a more difficult facade of manliness to maintain. Kind of like looking for introspection in Charlie Sheen.

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  116. jackieblue2u March 7, 2011 at 1:22 pm #

    The Charlie Sheen Machine.
    And we thought Tom Cruise was a bad.
    Sheeeit, Charlie is one scary guy.
    Beyond Manic.
    Maybe too much money did it to him.
    Seems to me that he is trying to be like Hugh Hefner.

  117. Warren Peace March 7, 2011 at 1:24 pm #

    Funny you should metion robots:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/07/opinion/07krugman.html

  118. rippedthunder March 7, 2011 at 1:24 pm #

    sheet O3, i got all those questions right on Jeopardy, If it was’t for Wilson I would be a gazillionaire by now!

  119. jackieblue2u March 7, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    If Lara’s not an older generation is Martin still there dad ?
    haha.

  120. jackieblue2u March 7, 2011 at 1:27 pm #

    Hi CASH,
    I said I’ve never eaten a Macdonalds hamburger cuz I haven’t.
    I have eatin’ fries and pies, way in the past tho.
    Yep never ever had a burger there. Once I had a chicken thing at BKing.
    other than that, I bar b que my own steaks and burgers.
    That shit they call meat scares me.
    The places are great for Pit Stops on Road Trips!
    🙂

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  121. helen highwater March 7, 2011 at 1:28 pm #

    Hi Newfie – I totally agree with you about TV being mind-numbing swill. I especially hate the car commercials. I think they are a good part of the reason why people are still buying those monster SUVs. They like to show them tearing up beautiful roadless areas, but of course most people who buy them only use them to go to the grocery store. I do own a TV but it isn’t hooked up to anything that gets any TV signal, I just use it for watching videos like The End of Suburbia, documentaries I get from the library etc. I especially like travel videos because then I don’t actually have to use any gasoline to go somewhere…The Newfies did once upon a time know how to survive without much imported food at all. (As did everybody else in Canada and the US, actually.)They grew potatoes and other root crops (fish guts and seaweed make great fertilizer), they had big root cellars, ate a lot of fish and other seafood. They built pretty much everything they needed from local materials. I just read an excellent book entitled “Tilting” by Robert Mellin about an island off the coast of mainland Newfoundland where there are still vestiges of this former way of life. It might offer you some good ideas for a world made by hand on the Rock.

  122. helen highwater March 7, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    And I guess they’ll be bringing back that Newfie Bullet train one of these days.

  123. jackieblue2u March 7, 2011 at 1:30 pm #

    Excellent Movie.

  124. ragtop March 7, 2011 at 1:30 pm #

    I agree with your assessment Laura. The problem is that ‘regular’ rail has no glam and therefore, it will be tough to get anyone (you know; the extremes of either political side) to defend OR fight against it. THAT is really what HRS is all about.
    HSR is nothing but a throw away, in the 2012 budget process. It allows BHO to look magnanimous removing his ‘pet project’ in order to reduce a REDICULOUSLY bloated budget down to something that they other side can live with. Both sides get to claim victory and still nothing gets done for the people.
    Rail is certainly a viable solution for short to intermediate (500-1000mi) distances. Sure it would require that we (and some of our employers) re-think travel and our ability to be in two places at once. My folks jut took Amtrak from Virginia to FL to visit family. They left at 5:15pm and arrived at around noon the next day, in Orlando. Slow, by air standards, but not nearly as stressful or hectic. I have taken Amtrak from Virginia to NY on several occasions and prefer it to driving.

  125. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 1:32 pm #

    Any other CFN leftie, hippie, tiny-ponytail-wearin‘, patchouli-smellin’ bio-types want to chime in, in a timelier fashion? Be my guest.
    Since I almost qualify;
    15,000 gallons of diesel full at 136,567 Btu/gal yields 2,048,505,000 Btu.
    1 Btu equals 1055.056 joules. From which 2,048,505,000 * 1055.056 = 2,161,287,491,280.
    So 15000 gallons of diesel produces 2,161,287,491,280 joules of energy.
    Sunlight at high noon falling on a square meter produces about 1000 joules of energy in one second.
    An acre has 4046.825 square meters so at noon on a clear day an acre can produce about 4,046,825 joules of energy in one second at 100% efficiency.
    2,161,287,491,280 / 4,046,825 = 534,067 seconds
    It is not high noon all the time and I could figure out average solar energy for a day but I’m going to be lazy and just double the number to account for 12 hours of darkness and leave it at that.
    534,067 * 2 = 1,068,134 seconds. This works out to about 12 days.
    Remembering that it is not always high noon probably pushes the number out to a month or so, maybe longer. I’m actually surprised that the number is somewhat realistic. I expected a much longer period of time.

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  126. laceration March 7, 2011 at 1:33 pm #

    So far I have resisted links — aimed at my reptilian neural circuits — on just about every website I’ve been too lately, about Charley Spleen. On the few TV shows I watch from the few stations I get there are constant repellent promos for his Sitcom. The show seems to be about a make believe moral universe where he bags a new babe every episode with his dimwit costars drolling. Now what I think I’ve picked up from osmosis from the geist of www is that he went on a drug filled rant breaking all manners and polite discourse, torpedoing his Sitcom show. In the funhouse mirror of popular America Reality the drug induced rant was a transgression, a morbidly curious accident on the side of the road. Actually, the transgression was the sitcom and the rants were his redemption(tho I haven’t listened to them) as they ridded us of that lameass sitcom. Now to tie it together, as JHK did somewhat, what we can use from Obama is a drug induced rant. His pathetic attempts at maintaining normalcy + decorum as if things will just be alright is not going torpedo this lameass sitcom that is America. Such a move would not be “strategic” as it would be too much for the childish level of public at large to comprehend. The strategy will be selective statistical data and ideational confusion that build a case for reelection, you can bet release of the reserve will be a part of that.

  127. urbanfarmer76 March 7, 2011 at 1:35 pm #

    How long can the Saudi Kingdom continue to buy off its people from revolt? $2000.00 or more everytime there is a threat of revolution. I cant agree more with Jim and many others. We are about to hit deep and uncharted waters in collapse.
    The elites are playing with fire. On the one hand they can afford 10 to 5 dollars a gallon gas and the middle class on down wont. I am not a fan but T Boone Pickens was quoted in the Dallas Morning News today that this continued political insablity will result in $300 to $200 for a barrel of oil. Obviously that is way past Heinberg’s Goldilock’s price for oil.

  128. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 1:36 pm #

    “Actually, the transgression was the sitcom and the rants were his redemption”
    Interesting view, I must agree.

  129. dubiousfacts March 7, 2011 at 1:42 pm #

    I agree that a new nationwide HSR is not needed and is unaffordable at present, but it does make sense for certain corridors. Beyond those areas there is a problem with medium speed passenger trains sharing the existing rails with freight, this is where much more doubletracking and better signalling would payoff at a fraction of the cost and environmental impact of new right-of-way.
    And more provisions for bikes and scooters (presently banned, even ‘tho it makes total sense), and more auto transport railcars. For America to have an air and highway transportation system that is so clearly a hostage to mayhem overseas is a national security threat and suicidal behavior.

  130. tootsie March 7, 2011 at 1:43 pm #

    Big fucking’ deal. So you take all of the rich’s riches. And lets assume that as you say, all of the states deficits are put to rest. What does one do next year. Remember, you already took all of the rich’s money. The deficits that you fixed for this year will all start mounting again because you only put a band-aid on the cause for one-fucking-year.
    State and national deficits have come about from over-promising circuses and cakes. Until entitlements are restructured we will have this fiasco hanging over our heads. Tax the rich? Be my guest..but it won’t solve our problems.

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  131. ragtop March 7, 2011 at 1:45 pm #

    K-Dog, your assertion is based on 100% of solar, which it is not. Best I have seen to date rates about 30%. What are you using?
    Don’t get me wrong, I am all in favor of solar as an alternative, not until efficiency of the panels and the storage methods are dramatically improved.

  132. tootsie March 7, 2011 at 1:48 pm #

    “How about we claw back all of the money the top 1% has squirreled away over the last 2-300 years…”
    How about I show up at your front door and tell you to give me all the money you squirreled away? How bout that?

  133. ian807 March 7, 2011 at 1:50 pm #

    Carter told the truth, again and again. For his trouble, he was run out of office. Obama is just not making that mistake.
    I’m also fairly sure it’s been quietly explained to him, away from cameras or recording devices, just how easy it would be for some secret service agent to NOT stop a bullet aimed at him or his family.
    So… truth telling. Not much upside in it for Mr. Obama. Big downside.
    I’d like to think though, that if Obama gets a second term and doesn’t have to worry about re-election, that there may be quite a bit of truth telling. The kind of things that most people don’t want to, or perhaps, can’t hear any longer.
    But personally, I think he’ll do the safe thing, like always. I’ve seen no evidence of spine in him. He’ll probably take his package and disappear, much like Bush.

  134. Cash March 7, 2011 at 1:53 pm #

    OK Newworld and Ozone listen to this;
    Not long ago our Liberal Prime Minister Paul Martin was speaking to soldiers at a Canuck forces base and he referred to the allied invasion of Norway, not once but twice.
    Well. I saw it like this: once is a slip, twice a slap in the face. Why? Because this was coming from the leader of the party that dismantled our military and disdains our boys and girls in uniform. I could see in my mind’s eye liberal hipsters doing high fives wowed by the slyness of the insult.
    Around the same time our Liberal Defence Minister Thomas McCallum referred to “Vichy” instead of “Vimy”. Now, Vimy Ridge is a place where Canada suffered 11,000 dead and wounded over the course of four days in 1917 dislodging the German Army. And Vichy is the name of the collaborationist WW2 French regime. McCallum said by way of excuse that he’s not up on his history. Um… sure. More laughter from the hipsters. Later he claimed to never have heard of Dieppe.
    OK maybe these are all innocent mistakes. But the Liberal Party and its supporters aren’t shy about their adversarial relationship with English Canada and their scorn for its history and heritage.
    The current Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff used to teach at Harvard. He wasn’t shy either about his disdain:
    “But modern patriotism is always tinctured with irony, with the sense that we are no longer quite what we take ourselves to be. Who entirely and unreservedly thrills to the raising of a Union Jack? It is both the battle standard and a hooligan’s underpants and because it’s both, it’s claim on the heart is muddied. In the case of the Canadian flag, I cannot entirely forget that it is both my flag and a passing imitation of a beer label.”
    So witty, so literate, so urbane. Passing imitation of a beer label? And this guy wants to be Prime Minister? Fuck me.
    In another speech he derides Canada’s efforts at peacekeeping as inadequate and “bogus”. Inadequate maybe but “bogus”? Tell that to these guys and their families (an honour roll of dead Canucks going back to 1950):
    http://members.shaw.ca/kcic1/peacekeepers.html
    You know what’s more depressing? Two thirds of the folks here vote “left” ie Liberal or NDP (socialist) or Bloc (a separatist Quebec party) or Green and so are on board with the Martins and the McCallums and the Ignatieffs. Have been for a good four decades.
    So I guess we can have a debate about which country is more culturally and economically decayed and who’s going down the crapper quicker.

  135. Stelios March 7, 2011 at 1:54 pm #

    At $AU 1.40 per litre our fuel here is already over US $5 per gallon!
    I don’t really see why North Americans should be paying less.
    And FWIW I rarely drive, preferring to cycle as much as I can because it only takes ~ 150Watts of my power, not 10K watts or more of fossil-fueled power, or to put it another way 66 of me on average to hurl a largely useless (but potentially lethal) payload around.
    Ridiculous by any measure…

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  136. Vlad Krandz March 7, 2011 at 1:55 pm #

    Like the last tree on Easter Island, no one is worrying too much about the end of oil. It will happen someday to someone else. Meanwhile there’s supposed to be a couple of trees up on the hill over the other side of the island.

  137. asoka March 7, 2011 at 2:00 pm #

    RT said: “… doing sumthin’ productive…”
    ===============
    RT, I agree we need to do something productive, because we only have four more days until the Days of Rage in Saudi Arabia, TSHTF, and the end of the American way of life based on petroleum.
    Here is one idea of doing something productive: create a vertical keyhole garden:
    http://bit.ly/hSfF1g
    Thanks, RT for bringing the discussion back to our reality. I think permaculture is the key to reality.
    (reality is not optional; even suicide may result in you being recycled. Suicide is a delusion and is not a way out of reality.)

  138. mila59 March 7, 2011 at 2:01 pm #

    PRD:
    “Man, doesn’t it seem sort of dream-like right now?”
    You said it, brother. I feel the EXACT same way as you, apparently. Not sure if there are many others.
    Mila

  139. Cash March 7, 2011 at 2:03 pm #

    That shit they call meat scares me. – Jackie
    No kidding. A disc of grey paste fried in sludge.
    You can smell a McD half a mile away with that suffocating grease and salt vapour billowing out. I shudder to think what the “chicken” is made of. Probably chicken fat, skin, guts, blood, glands and salt.
    I remember a show I saw a long time ago where they had a meat inspector saying he would never ever take his family out for hamburgers. This was fear from the informed.

  140. tootsie March 7, 2011 at 2:04 pm #

    “Carter told the truth, again and again. For his trouble, he was run out of office. Obama is just not making that mistake.”
    Carter was an inept douche. So too is Obama. And so what if he is run out of office for telling the truth. Big fucking deal. So he isn’t willing to speak truth to power so he can hang around for another four years and do what? Stage more Motown themed parties off of the WH back patio? Fuck him.

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  141. asoka March 7, 2011 at 2:07 pm #

    Who is Charlie Sheen? Is he Black? Is he a politician? I don’t have a TV.
    Google cannot explain the meaning of the cultural reference JHK made today.

  142. tootsie March 7, 2011 at 2:10 pm #

    “I don’t really see why North Americans should be paying less.”
    They aren’t. When you factor in the cost of troops in the ME they are paying as much if not more than the rest of the world.

  143. tootsie March 7, 2011 at 2:13 pm #

    “Who is Charlie Sheen? Is he Black? Is he a politician?”
    Shut the fuck up. You know exactly who he is. Douche.

  144. loveday March 7, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    ian 807
    I agree with you, the last time anything approaching truth was heard in the Washington beltway was when Jimmy Carter told America to put on a sweater in the winter(gasp). He was promptly crucified for that piece of practical advice. Obama sadly has reneged on every campaign promise he has made-“TO BE CLEAR”… he lied. Oh well, he probably couldn’t done much anyway.
    regards
    loveday

  145. mila59 March 7, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    Schwerpunkt:
    I love your blog.
    Mila

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  146. Vlad Krandz March 7, 2011 at 2:15 pm #

    Of course you don’t agree: according to Liberalism, Whites aren’t human and have no rights. Their only purpose to take blame and work off their “debt” until they die. And by definition, the debt can never be paid. Yet still we are supposed to try. You know you really should re-think this. I mean don’t you ever get tired of just hearing what you already believe?

  147. dubiousfacts March 7, 2011 at 2:19 pm #

    OK Smartass, I’ll take that deal. You can leave me my house and my job (if any) and my first million dollars and take the rest to fix the infrastructure and give the schoolteachers and police back their jobs. But this applies to EVERYBODY, no cheating. How bout that, jerk.

  148. mila59 March 7, 2011 at 2:23 pm #

    He is an actor in his mid-forties, the son of Martin Sheen (an actor who was in the movie Apocalypse Now and on the tv show West Wing). Charlie also has an actor-brother Emilio Estevez. Sheen has been in a tv show “Two and a Half Men” apparently very popular — I’ve never seen it.
    He has gone off the deep end with drugs, drink, women, etc., and is now very popular for his bizarre (CRAZY) life, interviews, comments, twitter feed, etc.

  149. Vlad Krandz March 7, 2011 at 2:25 pm #

    So how many of these Muslim Nations are we going to invade to support the Revolutions that we fomented? Saudi Arabia too? Tanks in Mecca? Iran too? Even though they have vowed to take the war right to the streets of America? All at the same time, right sport? I assume you support a ressuming the draft. And who will gain from the carnage? We’ll do the heavy lifting and reap the hatred, and the Muslim Brotherhood will be the gainers. Did we not set up a Muslim State in Kosovo? Do you think they are greatful?

  150. asoka March 7, 2011 at 2:26 pm #

    Thank you, mila59.
    I was living outside the USA for over a decade, and I don’t have a TV, so I’m not up on USA popular culture, though it appears I’m not missing much.
    I appreciate your CONCISE-less-than-one-screen answer (k-dog approved!)

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  151. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown March 7, 2011 at 2:27 pm #

    Speaking of dream-like, this was the lead story today around here.
    http://www2.tricities.com/news/2011/mar/07/heavy-rains-send-portable-toilets-sailing-ar-887302/
    Not to worry, they will get it all fixed up before the big race.

  152. tigerdog March 7, 2011 at 2:32 pm #

    All this is fun, and I enjoy the chit chat. But, where are all of Pakistan’s nukes? Does anyone know? Maybe Bin Laden knows…. Anyway I can grow my garden and feed myself and friends without oil, but one hot nuke will really spoil my day.

  153. darksumomo March 7, 2011 at 2:33 pm #

    “‘who gave this cohort of morons the right to tell us what to do and think?’
    The electorate, Jim.”
    You mean these morons?
    “George Will…Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Senator Jim DeMint”
    The only one of them an electorate gave a right to tell people what to do and think was DeMint, and that was only a majority of the voters in South Carolina. The rest were hired by media companies and have only a small but vocal minority of listeners, readers, and viewers supporting them. There may be plenty of blame to apportion to average people for failures of thought, but the lion’s share of the fault here goes to the rich people who employ “these morons.”

  154. Vlad Krandz March 7, 2011 at 2:34 pm #

    Crazy or not he got the best of the the hyper sensitive anti anti Semites. They condemned him for calling a Jewish guy by his real Jewish name cuz now people know the guy’s a Jew. I guess they don’t want people to know to know that Hollywood is run by Jews. Are they perhaps ashamed at all the garbage they pump out?

  155. Newfie March 7, 2011 at 2:37 pm #

    I go into McDonalds once in a “blue moon”. I am pretty health conscious so most of the offerings are not very appealing and some of it is downright sickening. But the chicken wraps seem alright. I grew up with TV when it was all the rage, broadcast in black and white, in the 50s and 60s. But drifted away from it when I went to University. Got into books and philosophy – Herbert Marcuse, Erich Fromm – anti establishment stuff. Now I have a laptop and a fast internet connection and I prefer to get information interactively. Something about being zombified and passive in front of the boob-tube as I am force fed information turns me off. I do have a projector and large screen and watch films – indie and documentaries and old Hollywood back when they knew how to make movies. I recommend The Story of Crude from ABC.

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  156. montsegur March 7, 2011 at 2:37 pm #

    Cash said: “Not long ago our Liberal Prime Minister Paul Martin was speaking to soldiers at a Canuck forces base and he referred to the allied invasion of Norway, not once but twice.”
    =============================
    But Cash, he was correct — April 1940 and May 1945! Don’t believe Canadians were involved in either operation but let’s not sweat the details.
    Maple Leaf Up

  157. Cash March 7, 2011 at 2:45 pm #

    Yeah but the speech was about the Normandy invasion.

  158. tootsie March 7, 2011 at 2:47 pm #

    Well, I believe I was addressing someone else. But your reply will do. And I agree. This is EVERYBODYS responsibility. Not just that of the rich. So how does that make me a jerk? Fucking jerk.

  159. darksumomo March 7, 2011 at 2:48 pm #

    “Mental fossil George Will fired off a salvo last week against fixing the US railroads. He thinks it’s just a sinister ploy to snatch the people’s ‘individualism.'”
    The George Will of 20-30 years ago might be appalled at the George Will of today. Back then, he considered himself an American Tory, a fan of a New World version of Churchill’s “One Nation Conservatism,” which would have been all in favor of fixing up the rail system. Now, he’s drunk the iced tea of the right-wing populism that passes for “conservative” (really authoritarian) politics. That brew seems to have diminished his intellect.
    Besides, a conservative inveighing against trains in the year that the first installment of “Atlas Shrugged” premieres in theaters? Ayn Rand via her Mary Sue character Dagny Taggert would be appalled.

  160. tootsie March 7, 2011 at 2:49 pm #

    Like I said, fucktard asoka-herself already knew who Charlie Sheen is.

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  161. Cash March 7, 2011 at 2:50 pm #

    Mont, if you don’t mind my asking what country do you live in? I can’t remember whether you ever mentioned it. Does the “Montsegur” handle refer to where you live? Interesting choice of name given the Cathar association.

  162. Mike Moskos March 7, 2011 at 2:51 pm #

    Two come to mind:
    1. In Twilight in the Dessert, Matt Simons wrote that engineers have a pretty good idea of how fast a particular oil well can be pumped. Pump it too fast (for political reasons aka Saudi Arabia) and you end up leaving a lot of oil in the ground, never to be recovered. Short term myopia=Long Emergency.
    2. Around the inner city here in Miami, we have much fallow land and many fallow people. The people are in a bind, they cannot jeopardize the government payments that provide them just enough to get by (but never to thrive), by working. What they need are ways to earn cash, but every kind of local law conspires against them. Grow a garden and sell the veggies? Sell mama’s pies? Set up a lawn mowing business? Day care at home? Chicken eggs business? Strictly prohibited or strictly prohibited without thousands of government licensing fees. More than anything to mitigate the coming Long Emergency we need to get local officials to do something that they almost never do: repeal laws. Specifically those laws designed to give a nice pretty, sterile suburban life that prevent the poor from working for themselves must go now. Because one day in the not so distant future many of us may find ourselves in that same situation as the currently fallow people.

  163. montsegur March 7, 2011 at 2:51 pm #

    Cash, check, just enjoying a moment when such a mistake becomes a correct statement by chance.
    Cheers

  164. darksumomo March 7, 2011 at 2:53 pm #

    Speaking of authoritarian politics, I think it’s time that “corn pone fascists” reappear in your essays. So far, their appearance and rise to power has been one of your better predictions. In particular, I’d like to read what you have to think about Scott Walker and his ilk.
    Oh, and here’s an interesting coincidence. One of the most respected academic authorities on Fascism, Stanley Payne, is an emeritus professor of history at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. I wonder what he thinks of the events playing out on his doorstep.

  165. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 2:54 pm #

    By the way, this doesn’t let President Obama off the hook. His consistent failure to tell the truth about the fragility of our situation, to make the case for getting our citizens out of their car-prisons, to promote modes of living that comport with reality – the president’s apparent cluelessness in every dimension of this crisis is something that historians of the future will shake theirs heads over in wonder and nausea (if the notion of history even survives the oil age).

    James you give Obama too much. His name will be remembered about as well as an average nobody in an average graveyard. If history survives the turmoil of the times to come an ineffectual president will be forgotten. Remember James you personally doubled the name recognition of Millard Fillmore.

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  166. Cash March 7, 2011 at 2:56 pm #

    That’s true enough.

  167. montsegur March 7, 2011 at 2:56 pm #

    Cash stated / asked: “Does the “Montsegur” handle refer to where you live? Interesting choice of name given the Cathar association.”
    ==================================
    I live in Germany. The Cathars were interesting for me a while back and “Montsegur” is not a terribly overused internet handle (although popular enough). I have visited Montsegur; it is quite a beautiful region.
    Cheers

  168. JulettaofOhio March 7, 2011 at 3:01 pm #

    I have so much trouble signing in on this site, and can never use “Reply” to any of the posts. Also, my comments seldom show up, possibly because I’m a right-leaning independent and even (the Horror!) a Tea Party fan. Not “tea bagger”, which is a moronic insult to an adult female who is incapable of such an act physically, and who finds it personally disgusting on top of that. The high speed rail controversy amazes me. Ohio has decided to return Obama’s “gift” as the plans were to run it from Cincinnati, through Columbus and on to Cleveland. A ticket would cost more than the current price of gasoline would entail, and the trip would take longer. This also leaves the rest of the state with no rail service. We live in the extreme northwest part of the state and my husband (age 69) drives 34 miles round trip per day to go to work (Yes, he’s still fully employed so we’re not sucking your take-home pay.) Expecting him to ride a bicycle to work during an Ohio winter and through some really rough parts of the large city in which he works is as ridiculous as expecting me to ride a bicycle to and from the nearest grocery store at my age and with advanced RA. Our small town was killed when the state decided to consolidate and took away the local schools, which led to the closure of the bank, gas station, grocery and hardware stores. We are an abandoned community as are so many in rural American. Guess what? Neither Bush nor Glenn Beck caused that! We can’t move closer to the “big city”, where we could both stroll to either work or the nearest grocery, while dodging bullets, because it would be impossible in Ohio’s current state of collapse to sell our very modest two-bedroom home and buy another. You can’t get a mortage at age 70.
    Even I know who Charlie Sheen is and have read some about his multiple problems, usually reported by breathless gossip commentators. The question comes to mind….Why was Mel Gibson so vilified and Charlie Sheen basically receives a pass for much worse behavior? For the same reason that George Bush is tortured daily and Obama, a much worse and more clueless president, bathes in hero-worshipping rays of sunshine? I’ll put Rush Limbaugh’s intelligence up against that of Keith Olberman’s any day, and I’ll win. So far, most of the comments of the right are substantially civil. The left slings slurs and taunts of “Corn-pone Nazi” (What they hell does that mean?), tea bagger and NasCar Loving Idiot constantly, despite the phony entreaties of Obama for a “more civil” public discourse. If someone likes NasCar, how does that hurt you? Are they coming to your house at night and siphoning off your gas? If you aren’t hurt personally, then shut up about it. I’d much rather have a Southerner for a friend than Eric Holder or Obama, always willing to throw you under the bus if it’s convenient for him. To solve the public employee problem, haul your own trash, teach your own kids and clear your own driveway. We homeschooled our kids with fantastic results, but are paying over 4 thousand dollars a year in property taxes to finance the huge new school built to house the students siphoned off from the small towns. I’m not sure how a two hour bus ride to and from school and the loss of community support is supposed to be an improvement. Test scores are down, but teacher pay and taxes are up which thrills the left.

  169. Newfie March 7, 2011 at 3:01 pm #

    I wonder if the Obamanator might intervene in Libya ? He might calculate it will calm the markets and send the price of oil back down. Possible ?

  170. asoka March 7, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    Tigerdog said: “Anyway I can grow my garden and feed myself and friends without oil, but one hot nuke will really spoil my day.”
    ==================
    Reality, or what you perceive to be reality, can change irrevocably in an instant. Today I am a Hindu (I’m still a Muslim atheist, too) and I want to share Shankara’s teaching on “reality” with this beautiful parable:

    Walking down a darkened road, a man sees a snake; his heart pounds, his pulse quickens. On closer inspection the “snake” turns out to be a piece of coiled rope. Once the delusion breaks, the snake vanishes forever. Similarly, walking down the darkened road of ignorance, we see ourselves as mortal creatures, and around us, the universe of name and form, the universe conditioned by time, space, and causation. We become aware of our limitations, bondage, and suffering. On “closer inspection” both the mortal creature as well as the universe turn out to be Brahman. Once the delusion breaks, our mortality as well as the universe disappear forever. We see Brahman existing everywhere and in everything.

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  171. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 3:05 pm #

    Or it could be the match that sends Saudi Arabia over the edge and the price of oil will go up in flames. But not to worry, that would be taking a stand. Not his style.

  172. asoka March 7, 2011 at 3:09 pm #

    Newfie, relax.
    There will be no USA land war in Libya.
    Obama is too smart for that. Even Bush-appointed Secretary Gates is too smart for that.

  173. Großdeutschland March 7, 2011 at 3:10 pm #

    @Helen Highwater –
    Could you please stop polluting the airwaves with this kind of tripe?
    I happen to be quite concerned with the oil situation in the world and the US, but I also feel the bullshit, doom fantasy/predictions JHK spews and the fact that they never come true are one of the biggest obstacles to developing any kind of sane approach to problem.
    If I can read this column in MY time at work in two minutes every Monday morning and occasionally respond to the idiocy here with facts and logic – that is perfectly within my rights – and none of your fucking concern.
    What? Did you just discover blogging yesterday? I can’t be here because I don’t say things that you like and fawn all over JHK like the rest of these pathetic sychophants?
    tootsie is probably correct about asoka knowing damn well who Charlie Sheen is, but I’m pretty sure JHK just learned of him last week. Perfect timing. The pop-culture references to NASCAR [always mispelled Nascar] and zombies is getting a bit old. Lady Gaga already has enough mileage.

  174. asia March 7, 2011 at 3:15 pm #

    OK….I was listening to Am LateNite Radio and the host says ‘call in’.
    The first callers a guy from Jersey whining about 5$ gas…HIS SOLUTION,INVADE THE COUNTRIES AND TAKE THE OIL!
    And those of us who dont watch TV didnt know about Sheen till the media made him the latest Lindsay L.

  175. asia March 7, 2011 at 3:17 pm #

    ‘I’d much rather have a Southerner for a friend than Eric Holder or Obama’
    Hahahaha
    Hows Ohio overall? Rustbelt? Detroit 2?

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  176. asia March 7, 2011 at 3:19 pm #

    He was getting 1.8 million $ per show!
    Proudly Many of us can say ‘What show, never saw it’.

  177. wagelaborer March 7, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

    Well, Cash, I don’t consider the military or its operations the basis of our civil society.
    To me, English Common Law is much more important to the old US way, the way of laws, not men (now overthrown) than any particular battle of WW11. And by the way, our laws were based on English Common Law, not Judeo-Christian tradition, as Thomas Jefferson pointed out, but you seemed to forget in last week’s thread.
    (” … [W]e know that the common law is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement in England, and altered from time to time by proper legislative authority from that time to the date of the Magna Charta [1215 CE], which terminates the period of the common law…and commences that of the statute law…. This settlement took place about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century…. Here, then, was a space of about two hundred years, during which the common law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it…. If, therefore, from the settlement of the Saxons to the introduction of Christianity among them, that system of religion could not be a part of the common law, because they were not yet Christians, and if, having their laws from that period to the close of the common law, we are able to find among them no such act of adoption, we may safely affirm (though contradicted by all the judges and writers on earth) that Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law. …”
    – Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814. From Andrew A. Lipscomb, ed., The Writings of Thomas Jefferson , Vol. XIV, Washington, DC: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1903, pp. 85-97. Quoted at the Ten Amendments Day site.)
    Every year on the 4th of July, we Greens get together and read the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights, plus a few selections from our founding father’s words.
    Everyone else blows up shit and drinks beer.
    Who is upholding the values you profess to cherish?
    The military-industrial complex has done more to destroy our republic than anything except for the corporations gone wild.
    Why would you hold them up for admiration?

  178. asia March 7, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

    A British friend in SanDiego said ‘More and more Indians in SD’.
    Yes, the press says they are sneaking in thru Mexico.
    There werent many here [LA] 10 years ago.
    Now they are ‘the new mexicans’ YIKES.

  179. asoka March 7, 2011 at 3:22 pm #

    till the media made him the latest Lindsay L.
    ==========
    Lindsay who? Christ!
    I can tell you about Bill McKibben or Chalmers Johnson, (though I missed that Chalmers had died, until I learned about it on CFN. Thanks, Wage!)
    Charlie and Linsay seem to be an optional reality not part of my reality. I don’t even want to know about whoever Lindsay L. is.

  180. dlweld March 7, 2011 at 3:23 pm #

    Jim Kunstler this morning:
    “An Alzheimers fog creeps across this land….”
    LOL I note that one of the side effects of statins (anti-cholesterol drugs) is confusion “cognitive difficulty” and some memory problems. http://www.statinanswers.com/effects.htm
    I can’t help but wonder, seeing as big pharma has every white anglosaxon male in the USA on these drugs, if we’re seeing a whole series of less than acute decisions slowly leading to the wrap up of the empire – sure seems like it, and it’d be so ironic that it just sounds right..

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  181. ozone March 7, 2011 at 3:30 pm #

    “I have so much trouble signing in on this site, and can never use “Reply” to any of the posts.” -JOO
    Ah, one more thing to be grateful for today. ;o)

  182. wagelaborer March 7, 2011 at 3:30 pm #

    You’re preaching to the choir here, Katnip!
    I am trying to manage 25 acres with hand tools. Can’t do it.
    My husband has no interest in gardening or home repair.
    He does, however, do to the gym to work out. And, yes, he drives!
    This drives me insane! I have post-holes to dig if you want upper body strength.
    I have stuff to haul if you want aerobics.
    Why waste oil to do fake exercise when there is SO much work to be done?
    (And here I sit on the internet instead of being outside working).

  183. tootsie March 7, 2011 at 3:33 pm #

    “Charlie and Linsay seem to be an optional reality not part of my reality. I don’t even want to know about whoever Lindsay L. is.”
    What a fucking lying phony. “Wow, man…I don’t do the TV thing…never heard of them.”
    Bullshit. Even if you don’t have a TV you can’t escape these assholes if you spend a mere 5 minutes a day on the fucking internet. Game up, asoka-yourself. Everyone knows you spend just slightly more than 5 minutes a day on the internet. (Fucking phony liar.)

  184. wagelaborer March 7, 2011 at 3:33 pm #

    I like you, Jonathan, but I do think that it would have been better if you had asked your neighbor how long the oil would last, after you asked him how much there was.
    That way, he might have been inspired (as you were) to go look it up himself.
    And it may have changed his mind.
    That’s the point, right?

  185. BICO-2 March 7, 2011 at 3:34 pm #

    @ Juletta, I too have trouble with the sign in & replying, so don’t assume you’re being blocked because of your views. As for the name calling: spend 5 minutes reading the comments on Beck’s blog/Blaze. You see the exact same thing in reverse – calling libs/radicals/dems all sorts of rude & obnoxious names. The right does not have a monopoly on politeness.

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  186. tootsie March 7, 2011 at 3:34 pm #

    “(And here I sit on the internet instead of being outside working).”
    Well then shut up and get to work. Heaven knows we won’t miss you.

  187. Econ395 March 7, 2011 at 3:39 pm #

    To get rail going in this country we can do the following;
    1) 100% Federal Financing. No messing around with cost sharing. (see New Jersey/New York train tunnel; Chris Christie)
    2) Eliminate ALL spending for; A) missions to the Moon & Mars, B) fusion research, C) car battery research and D)ethanol subsidies. I estimate these should save $15 billion/year.
    And they will create many more jobs than continuing funding for these four wasteful programs.

  188. wagelaborer March 7, 2011 at 3:44 pm #

    Hey, thanks, Hancock. I haven’t seen that movie, but I did like Westerns as a child. Because they had horses in them! But I don’t watch many movies.
    I think I’d be diagnosed with ADHD nowadays. I don’t have the patience to sit through movies, although I can read for hours. Go figure.
    I did see “Stagecoach” recently. My husband loves to watch old movies, so I sat with him and watched it.
    You’re a fellow conspiracy theorist, right?
    Here’s some obvious ones-
    Jimmy Carter was NOT run from office by irate, oil-guzzling Americans. His speech on conserving oil was well received by Americans.
    Ronald Reagan made a deal with the Iranians to keep the hostages until after the election, and the corporate media harped on the issue day after day after day. Which is how you keep American’s minds focused.
    Carter didn’t lose by much. And I suppose he preferred demonization to assassination, the alternative way of getting rid of threats to the oil companies.
    I know Charlie Sheen from the movie “Platoon” AND because he is a celebrity who speaks out for 9-11 truth.
    Have you ever looked at the Yahoo top search list?
    Truly, whenever I look at it, I’m like, WTF? Who are these people?
    But last week, I started seeing Charlie Sheen’s name. What did he do, interview with Alex Jones again?
    Then, I started hearing references to him all over the place. Hmmm. I asked my husband, who is more in tune with the culture, but he didn’t know.
    I’m guessing that the press is on to get rid of Charlie Sheen, because of his truth speech.
    And apparently, it’s very effective! Witness this blog!
    I don’t know what they’re accusing him of, but I’m pretty sure that I know his real crime.
    A thought crime.

  189. wagelaborer March 7, 2011 at 3:48 pm #

    Great story, Dao. Thanks.

  190. tootsie March 7, 2011 at 3:49 pm #

    “I don’t know what they’re accusing him of, but I’m pretty sure that I know his real crime.
    A thought crime.”
    This coming from someone who is constantly trying to get people she does not agree with banned from this site? Too freakin’ funny.

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  191. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 3:54 pm #

    I’m an expert in electronics, it’s appropriate for me to have bought the kit version. I plan on modifying it to extend the range and will package it discretely.

  192. wagelaborer March 7, 2011 at 3:54 pm #

    I have taken a bicycle on Amtrak, Jerry. But I think they have a limit of two.
    If ferries can carry cars across water, why can’t Amtrak carry cars for a ways? Good idea.
    Kind of like the monster recreational vehicles you used to see, hauling cars for the destination travel.

  193. suburbanempire March 7, 2011 at 3:55 pm #

    Doobie-us… if you haven’t already I have two for your read list L. Fletcher Prouty’s book “JFK”
    and “Family of Secrets” by Russ Baker.
    For those bitching at JHK because the Dow isn’t at 4000, or whatever prediction he makes on this blog; cut the man some slack for god sakes…
    Read his book (and perhaps JHK himself could review the title before blogging) it is the LONG Emergency…. L-O—N——G…. as in not sudden or maybe even noticeable. JHK said this much himself in his book, sometimes he gets itchy to see himself proven right in his blog… (HIS BLOG, he can say whatever he wants, you can read TMZ.com if you disagree w/him).
    I personally feel that the reason the Dow isn’t at 4000 is because it is an artificial game being played on some big system of computers… not a crop that will fail if it doesn’t rain. The Dow is not at 4000 because Uncle Sam stepped in just three years ago and BAILED OUT WALL STREET!!! (remember…) and even if he didn’t the whole thing is rigged anyway…. it isn’t natural, and therefore not subject to natural laws like gravity and physics… as a matter of fact the game can be played well beyond the age of oil… there just won’t be room for the “middle class” in the casino, because there won’t be a middle class.
    As for peak oil, the cornucopians out there understand the “bumpy plateau” part of the equation before poo-pooing it as some oil company conspiracy… there are PLEANTY of oil company conspiracies out there that are real…. give the world some time… it is going more on the timetable of JHK’s book, and less on the timetable of his blog.
    This is a place for him (and us) to rant about the topic du jour…. and apparently for some of us that means name calling.
    I am glad to see the name caller is so class-conscious… they have no class, and everyone is conscious of it.

  194. BICO-2 March 7, 2011 at 3:57 pm #

    @ wage,
    Charlie has gone cuckoo for Cocopuffs!

  195. wagelaborer March 7, 2011 at 4:01 pm #

    Great analogy.
    But shouldn’t it continue?
    There’s supposed to be more trees on the other side of the island, but the dirty liberal environmentalists won’t let us cut them down.

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  196. wagelaborer March 7, 2011 at 4:07 pm #

    Apparently that’s the meme, bico.

  197. Hancock1863 March 7, 2011 at 4:07 pm #

    To: ProgorCons
    —————
    How is your wife doing? Better and better, I hope. Take all the time you need and come back when you are able.
    This looney bin of CommiPinkuberFasciSocialiMonachiNaziMaoism will still be here.

  198. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 4:08 pm #

    The average city bus also needs to be modified to carry more than two bicycles at once. A mechanical device to lift them onto the roof could work. A dozen could then be carried at a time.
    The way things are now there is two much chance of someone else using up the bike rack to make bus/bike commuting a reliable option.
    In my minds eye I just worked it all out, too bad I need paid work right now.

  199. wagelaborer March 7, 2011 at 4:14 pm #

    And then, with the Magna Carta in 1215, they extended the rule of laws, not men.
    As I pointed out to Myrtle last week, the Magna Carta was overthrown in 2006, here in the US.
    http://www.aclu.org/national-security/military-commissions-act-2006
    Isn’t that more important than the Battle of Gettysburg?
    We now have kings, instead of presidents, who claim power never dreamed of by the kings of previous centuries, but who also claim the rights of indefinite detention, torture, and assassinations by imperial decree, once thought buried, but now unearthed again.
    And the discussion is on what Charlie Sheen did over the weekend.

  200. rippedthunder March 7, 2011 at 4:15 pm #

    I’m watchin’ old movies. ground is still frozin’ and i still have more than a foot snow down. temp is about 32 F no sap flowin; I would start some pepper or tomato seeds but it is still a tad early. pretty much down time here in western MA.maybe i will go out and watch the snow melt {slowly)….

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  201. BICO-2 March 7, 2011 at 4:16 pm #

    His best quote from last week, “Most of the time, and this includes naps, I’m an F-18” Freaking hilarious.

  202. wagelaborer March 7, 2011 at 4:17 pm #

    My sister went to college in Santa Barbara.
    As I recall, the buses carried dozens of bicycles. I can’t remember how exactly.
    But if they could do it in the 70s, they could do it now.

  203. suburbanempire March 7, 2011 at 4:19 pm #

    oh no… cut away! Build another statue to yourself….Your grandchildren don’t need anything because Jebus is coming to rapture y’all away!
    (Ever hear of Easter Island… the place with statues and “no natives”?)

  204. wagelaborer March 7, 2011 at 4:20 pm #

    Sorry, don’t understand the F-18 reference.
    Airplane?

  205. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 4:20 pm #

    That’s great. To bad the American way of life is still non negotiable.

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  206. Bustin J March 7, 2011 at 4:21 pm #

    For now, I’m just going to hang out with these two smoking hotties and fly privately around the world. It might be lonely up here, but I sure like the view.
    -Charlie Sheen

    I gotta say my like of Charlie Sheen went up about 50 bazillion points in the last week.
    The reaction from the hoi polloi has been overwhelming. In real life, and on this board. A bunch of finger-waving no-nothing scolding moralizers.
    You people are under the thrall of a condition I like to call waiting for Jesus.
    Even if you’re not a “blank slate” card-carrying member of a church, somehow by cultural osmosis you are possessed of the conceit that somehow everyone should be trying to attain a Jesus-like level of personal excellence. Obama rode this reality all the way into the White House.
    As long as you present yourself as some kind of saint, everyone will believe any bullshit you spew. Everyone else, fuck you- we don’t want to hear the truth unless it passes our short-cut to thinking: forget the locution: is the elocutioner a saint, like my very most favorite imaginary personal benchmark for integrity- Mr. Jesus Fucking Christ?
    “If you ain’t Jesus Fucking Christ, you are a hypocrite, incapable of possessing any wisdom, any truth, any validity.”
    Here’s the truth: Life ain’t fun, drugs are fun. Relationships suck, and hookers rock. Being poor and politically correct is for losers and making $1.2 million/episode is WINNING.
    Ca$h said last week, “In any case IMO scientists should stay the fuck away from “why” and let the pole sitting mystics deal with it.”
    I had to get back to this, to get my final word in. Cash believes those that know “How” (scientists) shouldn’t be those that dare to propose “why” (about the porpoise of life, Big WHY q’s, etc.). How fucking stupid is that? It seems to me that those that don’t know “How” have been claiming exclusive rights to the explanations of “why” and defending that right with swords dipped in bullshit for thousands of years. Oh yeah, legitimize that by claiming that such are “philosophers”- the very word means “Love of Wisdom”, and “Wisom” is defined as “accumulated knowledge or erudition or enlightenment”, eg., what Science “produces”.
    What it breaks down to is “FALSE” philosophy vs. “TRUE” Philosophy. I’ll meet you on the field of battle, bitches. Its not a fair fight. Under the banner of the Theory of Evolution we’ll be rolling out several secret weapons this week: Polyploidization and Transposons, more evidence that God was never needed for all this beautiful speciation, nor is Genetic Inheritance the unknown black-box its soft-headed detractors claim. The theory of evolution is rolling on, regardless of whether you realize your body is squashed into a muddy tank-track far behind under a haze of mustard gas.
    What Ca$H-monEY prefers to believe on Sunday and in his personal foxhole is his own prerogative. It just bears repeating that he is a childish bitch whose world-view is retrograde, who can’t handle reality, who can’t handle the future.
    Special message for RippedThunder: smokeless tobacco causes mouth cancer.
    Patrizia: Italy is not a scientific backwater. I am pleased to be the first to inform that God doesn’t exist and the structure and function of DNA has been elucidated.
    PoC: You are trying so very very hard to be Jesus and you’re bi-winning: Congrats. You have the respect of the loser pool.

    I don’t have time for their judgement and their stupidity and you know they lay down with their ugly wives in front of their ugly children and look at their loser lives and then they look at me and they say, ‘I can’t process it’ well, no, you never will stop trying, just sit back and enjoy the show. You know?
    Charlie Sheen

    I’m dealing with fools and trolls and soft targets. It’s just strafing runs in my underwear before my first cup of coffee. I don’t have time for these clowns.
    Charlie Sheen

    You have the right to kill me, but you don’t have the right to judge me. That’s life. There’s nobility in that. There’s focus. It’s genuine. It’s crystal and it’s pure and it’s available to everybody, so just shut your traps and put down your McDonalds, your vaccines, your Us Weekly, your TMZ and the rest of it.
    Charlie Sheen

    On his prediliction for porn stars: “They’re the best at what they do and I’m the best at what I do. And together it’s like, it’s on. Sorry, Middle America. Yeah, I said it.”

    Its funny, there is always a nugget of clusterfuck theory in every major media bowel movement: this episode reveals that the bulk of America are a bunch of moralizing cunts who can’t act or think for themselves, scurrying to join the popular faction, whoever that might be. The biggest bloc behind this movement is the properly-coiffed suburban cadre who are all about “values”. The “tsk-tsk” contingent. The jealous, desperate fools hiding behind their fashion wardrobes and makeup, hoping no one finds out what grovelling, worthless pieces of shit they are.
    Charlie offends the religion of the mainstream: the faux morality, the high-brow pseudo-ethical superiority, the secret societies and hierarchy of post-collegial corporate cults of demeanor, the plugged-in, vacant consumer whoredom of the permanent low-self esteem clique.
    Someone comes along who took their money (winning!) and then said “Fuck you” to their bullshit lifestyle lies (marriage) will not get a pass- there must be a pantywaist backlash. A million bleating elephantine farts of derision tweeted, the kingdom defended for a day!

  207. wagelaborer March 7, 2011 at 4:22 pm #

    And I used to take the trolley in San Jose.
    There were spaces for 2 bikes in every car.

  208. BICO-2 March 7, 2011 at 4:23 pm #

    I think it is an airplane, or maybe an automatic weapon? Anywho, he’s saying he’s hot shit….even when napping!

  209. wagelaborer March 7, 2011 at 4:23 pm #

    There is an unofficial ER diagnosis that applies-
    “Too stupid to live”

  210. wagelaborer March 7, 2011 at 4:29 pm #

    OK,for the first time, my interest is piqued.
    What was this interview from?

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  211. SNAFU March 7, 2011 at 4:31 pm #

    Hey Toots, Per your question: “How about I show up at your front door and tell you to give me all the money you squirreled away? How bout that?”
    Come on over; unfortunately for you, you will not need a very large bag, probably a small pop corn sack will do as long as you empty out a little of the popped corn.
    SNAFU

  212. helen highwater March 7, 2011 at 4:32 pm #

    You know what’s even more depressing? Having a Conservative, right-wing, lying, hypocritical, fundamentalist Christian prime minister. This guy is destroying our democracy so fast that if we don’t get him out of office soon there will be nothing left of it. And if our electoral system weren’t as dysfunctional as the one the US has, he wouldn’t even BE prime minister, because the majority of Canadians voted for “anybody but Harper” and he got in anyway.

  213. mow March 7, 2011 at 4:42 pm #

    funny how four buck gasoline brings out the best in everyone

  214. helen highwater March 7, 2011 at 4:43 pm #

    My goodness, tootsie, you are an angry little person. Have you ever thought about getting help?

  215. asia March 7, 2011 at 4:46 pm #

    Asoka is just one man.
    What about the 340 million people in US/Canada who
    thrive[?] on LL/CS news?
    That tells me alot about the people of North America.

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  216. asia March 7, 2011 at 4:47 pm #

    You know what’s even more depressing?
    shows like ‘LITTLE MOSQUE ON THE PRAIRIE’.

  217. mila59 March 7, 2011 at 4:48 pm #

    Don’t know. Haven’t followed his comments 🙂

  218. helen highwater March 7, 2011 at 4:56 pm #

    I’m curious why you think asking people to use a bit of common politeness and civility when responding to other peoples’ posts is “tripe”. Are you really as rude and nasty to other people in person as you are here, or do you just do it online where nobody knows who you are?

  219. helen highwater March 7, 2011 at 5:03 pm #

    that’s one of the reasons I don’t watch TV!

  220. Vlad Krandz March 7, 2011 at 5:04 pm #

    They hate Charlie cuz they want to be Charlie – and they can’t. This is all just more evidence (as if more was needed) that we need a new Aristocracy. Once when I worked in a record store, a sad little guy bought a picture of John in bed with Yoko. He said “look at the expression of Lennon’s face – he looks like a devil”. Admiration, Jealousy, and Hatred all vied for supremacy in the little guy’s heart. A typical egalitarian/democrat who both worships and hates those above him. Years after when Lennon was gunned down, I remembered this sad fellow.
    In a true system, people are taught to value their own place. They don’t hate those above them because they aren’t in competition with them anymore than the feet are in competition with the head. The modern mood of egalitarianism has lead to countless revolutions and much bloodshed. And for what? The low are still the low even if enthroned. Sooner or later blood, like water, finds its own level.
    Truth be told, the New World Order is seeking to install a new version of this old system as well. But sans the White Race and Western Culture – they mean to set themselves up as Gods and don’t want any problems. Same reason that Alexander the Great turned against the Greeks and towards the young Persians – they would accept him as a God and the Greeks would not. But, but, but you sputter (not you Bustin) “what about democracy”? A tool nothing more. As the Turkish President said, Democracy is a Train and we can get off wherever we like. The NWO intends to get off at Medevial Manor complete with happy little darkies working in the fields. Well we intend to stop them. Remember friends, the slave is only noble when he rebels. I have just affirmed and denied the same thing – but not quite: the form of the argument is the same but the value of the variables is different – and that makes all the difference. Let He who has eyes to see, See.

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  221. Rabblechat March 7, 2011 at 5:12 pm #

    No problem Katnip; I said 4 bucks is the limit for me because at that point nearly 20% of my take home pay would be going straight into my gas tank.
    To be honest I cannot afford current gas prices but
    Like you, my town has very few bike/walk friendly routes. Usable sidewalks are a thing of the past in the rust belt. Local government has enough trouble scraping up the money to keep pot holes filled, much less to worry about sidewalks…
    I used to ride quite frequently but I have had a couple of near misses with distracted drivers.
    My commute is about 10 miles each way. I would love to move closer but with todays market its a catch 22: Its a great time to buy a house but a horrible time to sell one. So I am where I am.

  222. suburbanempire March 7, 2011 at 5:18 pm #

    Awww Helen, I like Tootsie, (people say I have no taste,) but I think he’s/she’s swell!
    I especially like it when he/she uses the word “fucktard” as an “insult” in replies… I wonder if he/she picked up that one from the platoon of Marines that gave his mother the clap, or the Army brigade that she gave the clap to!
    plus the comments are usually so dense that light actually bends around them!
    One thing is for sure, after reading tootsies comments I find myself in favor of abortion in cases of incest!
    One thing… I want to know if toots can use the word “fuck” as a superlative, a modifier, a noun, and a verb in the same sentence….

  223. insufferable March 7, 2011 at 5:21 pm #

    I was in college when the 1970 oil shortage happened and I had a fiat 850 spyder. It was great. Today, you can’t even get a fiat here, and my small car (mercedes 350) just took a full tank of gas for $60.(it lasts over two weeks for me.) Most people don’t remember the 1970’s with odd and even fill up days and the fights and long lines. What a mess. that was during a time when people were not as spoiled as they are today, driving a gas guzzling mega truck/car. Could you imagine them fighting it out at the pumps? An entire generation might be lost…..no loss..
    Its no coincidence that Sheen has become the poster boy for what our country is today. Cocky, intoxicated, stupid, self centered, rich (and spending every last penny) unemployed, and completely disconnected from the world as it goes down in flames. I think people should view his public fiasco as all of us, in one person. You can point directly to that visual image and say, “this is why we are in the mess we are today”. Its useless to change things now, because just as Sheen seem unable to see his plight,and do something about it to save himself and his family, we as a nation, are unable to rescue ourselves from our way of life and selfish ineptitute. TOO LATE. Even those who are able to lead decent lives are grouped into the majority of imbeciles that are destroying themselves and taking us with them.

  224. MarlinFive54 March 7, 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    You’re right, Jim, a frivolous and incredulous nation, lacking gravitas or substance, totally unprepared for the historical forces bearing down upon us.
    I hope we as a people wise up pretty quick, or else we’re screwed.
    Ozono … Roosterville? Does such a place really exist? Near Boston Corners? The one atlas I have here doesn’t show it. When it warms up I’ll have to ride up there and check it out for myself. Is there a sign on Rte. 8 that says Roosterville?
    General Hancock … true, you got Cliff Lee back, but you lost Jason Worth. I think the Mets will be more competitive this season and give the Phils a good run for their money. Phils still the favorite for the NL East, though.
    Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  225. JonathanSS March 7, 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    Your absolutely right! I’m a real smart aleck. Especially since this guy is a Vietnam vet on meds for mental issues. That “drill-baby-drill” mantra just really irritates me. Still no reason to rub people’s noses in the fact that “they can’t handle the truth”.

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  226. tootsie March 7, 2011 at 5:26 pm #

    “Come on over; unfortunately for you, you will not need a very large bag, probably a small pop corn sack…”
    Which explains why you are jealous of anyone who has had the wit and determination to put some money away. Thanks for the clarification.

  227. rippedthunder March 7, 2011 at 5:27 pm #

    F-18= fighter airplane, model 18 also f18A, F18B,F18C,D an E , M1A =best gun ever made, U2 = spy plane or rock band, take your pick. NSA, CIA, FBI ,NTSA, ICE i could go on for pages with acronyms, the US government has 50,000 people on the payroll to think of this SHI””””””T

  228. tootsie March 7, 2011 at 5:29 pm #

    “For now, I’m just going to hang out with these two smoking hotties and fly privately around the world. It might be lonely up here, but I sure like the view. -Charlie Sheen
    I gotta say my like of Charlie Sheen went up about 50 bazillion points in the last week.”
    And I suppose that is because you are a bigger piece of white trash than he.

  229. suburbanempire March 7, 2011 at 5:32 pm #

    Oh, your a self made man! Nice of you to take the blame.

  230. tootsie March 7, 2011 at 5:34 pm #

    Oh and “your” (you probably meant you’re but that is merely an assumption) a moron.

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  231. rippedthunder March 7, 2011 at 5:38 pm #

    two weeks with a 350? you should have bought the deisel. I’ve got a ’75 280 d and it gets like 30 mpg around town. Gotta love that german enginering? My bike is a ’68/2 bimmer boxer. I think it uses as much fuel as the car! But it is more fun to drive!

  232. Alexandra March 7, 2011 at 5:44 pm #

    Reality Optional?
    Not for us Brits I’m afraid, if this kicks off, this coming Friday…
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudis-mobilise-thousands-of-troops-to-quell-growing-revolt-2232928.html
    The ’Hunayn Revolution’ and polite cough for affect – here’s EXACTLY why…
    You see back in those heady satin-loon-pant and afghan coat clad 1970’s – pre the bounty of North Sea Oil – now long gone, burnt and busted… when we had that last brick-wall hitting moment of ‘supply’ collapse, you know that one that was like eeerghh Dudes, completely 100% non-negotiable…
    Well, back then they were far few peeps living on this over-crowded little isle, and we had far fewer cars/trucks too in fact, and we had thousands of independent fuel Co petrol stations, dotted around the place… to go get petrol from.
    (Then three decades of decadence and complacency later including those city boyz banksters being let orf the regulations-leash and we Brits went totally doo-dally mad)… loadsamoney was the MANTRA, and a housing bubble helped immensely!
    So what’s the KEY difference since then, here right now in March 2011 you may ask?
    Well I have to report to you US based folks, that over here in the UK now the bulk of our car fuel is now sold ONLY at (on edge of mass suburban cubicle estates) by the SUPERMARKETS – a clique mini oligarchic group of about 4 key players or so – (a prime example of energy-security clusterf#ck thinking). So this time around, when business as usual oil supplies collapse (as they will, sooner or later) mega-queues of vehicles will form-up for there limited quota of a few litres, creating impassable lines of traffic blocking… what?
    You guessed it where the masses mainly live and try and feed themselves with food too… These same road arteries also carry (nightly) the dozens of trucks that bring the produce… oh deary me.
    So let’s do the math on this together, less places to buy limited fuel = massive longer car queues in the critical key places people live/work on mass/commute and buy there food from.
    (BINGO)
    Don’t you just love the JIT implications…
    Be seeing you…
    PS: (But not if I’m on a NetJet to Norway this sat)….well you never quite know do you?

  233. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 6:30 pm #

    A quick scan of our news on this side of the pond shows no sign of trouble in Saudi Land. How respectable is the INDEPENDENT I know nothing about it?

  234. progressorconserve March 7, 2011 at 6:30 pm #

    Nice weeks work, JHK. I appreciate it, as always.
    There is, indeed, a lot of stuff hanging out there in geopolitical space that could have a really negative impact on oil supply and quality of life around the world.
    Here are my favorite lines from the week:
    “…1973 OPEC oil “embargo” (so-called). Whatever else history records it as having consisted of – bluffing, hoarding, fear-mongering, market manipulation – a few things are inarguable. It arose suddenly out of a political conflict (the Yom Kippur War), and it disrupted life in the USA…”
    -jhk-
    Yeah, no shit, James Sherlock Kunstler! From there through the 1979 election we, as a Nation, had a chance to answer a wake up call. We almost did – we came so freakin’ close! But we’ve been going backwards since 1980 – and eventually it’s gonna cost us.
    The world may skate through this episode – with no harm and things may be back to *normal* by summer. Or this may end in such a big disaster that we finally face the truth.
    Which brings me to my absolute favorite JHKism for the week:
    “…the theory that life goes on until it doesn’t..”
    -jhk-
    That’s a very good theory – from all angles.
    ===========
    Personal stuff –
    Hancock – HAHAHOHOHEHE!! Freakin’ hilarious!!
    And thanks, she’s going to be fine, I think – although my household is deploying a large and varied array of analgesic pharmaceuticals, ’till yet. And yeah, that was some seriously personal and annoying impeding that RI was sending my way Sunday night.
    Bustin – Thank you, more or less, for the backhanded complement you rendered. I will always contend that you, or anyone, who expresses THAT MUCH CERTAINTY is covering fear, dread, or something. Dig deep, me lad – and see what you find – consider the Big Maybe. – maybe?-

  235. Bustedcelt March 7, 2011 at 6:33 pm #

    Thank you for this.
    (I was also around during the oil shortages of the ’70s and got a broken headlight from a panicky lane-changer backing into me at a gas station, and had to get friendly with the schnook parking lot attendent so I could get $10 worth of gas on occasion–thank goodness for my miserly VW Squareback.)
    I actually laughed when I heard about the possible reserve drawdown. Americans (the U.S. type) are without a doubt the most decadent people on the face of the earth–and that alone is justification for retribution we are about to receive. May we all be thankful.

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  236. progressorconserve March 7, 2011 at 6:43 pm #

    Interesting stuff to ponder –
    Gas went to $4.10/gallon in the spring of 2008 mostly because of speculation. At that time the sensible thing to do would have been to threaten to draw down the Strategic Petroleum Reserve in the US – to lower the speculative fever on oil.
    Instead of doing a drawdown – Dear Leader BushII let them keep buying oil and filling the damn thing up.
    ===========
    Now – facing potentially VERY serious supply shortages in the coming weeks or months – Dear Leader Obama wants to pump oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve and draw DOWN our safety margin.
    Why is it that US leadership seems to always make the least logical choice – in any given situation?

  237. rippedthunder March 7, 2011 at 6:45 pm #

    Decadent!! Decadent!! How dare you! our American way of life “WILL NOT BE COMPRMISED” “Blasphemy, I say Blasphemy!!”I sincerely apologise for my American brethren. I know, I know, Americans always apologize for their behavoir. You really have to admit we are quite the energy hogs!

  238. wagelaborer March 7, 2011 at 6:48 pm #

    Maybe he’s saying he snores?

  239. progressorconserve March 7, 2011 at 6:50 pm #

    http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2010/04/22/oil-6/
    Oops – forgot to include the link that backs my contention that the 2008 oil price spike was due to speculation.
    Don’t know a thing about this website, fabius, but it looks a little interesting. And at least I did read the referenced webpage and it does confirm what I am saying to CFN.
    BTW – #239 – looks like another good CNF week coming up!

  240. Alexandra March 7, 2011 at 6:51 pm #

    @ K-Dog
    How respectable is Robert Fisk?
    Good question…. I’d say probably one of the finest ‘best’ informed journo’s on the globe when it comes to all things ME? And the indie was a breakaway from the Telegraph…
    (So it’s a quality UK Broadsheet, still)
    *A quick scan of our news on this side of the pond shows no sign of trouble in Saudi Land…*
    NO SH#T… eh…?
    But I know who Charlie Sheen is – he was great in Wall St, and Platoon in fact – and let’s move onto the bigger question… now shall we?
    Do you send the private militias quietly in, or risk going full-blown WWIII with the shock-n-awe group hanging out around there already?
    I think the Obama-messiah-man’s looking a tad strained on the current clips…
    Is it gloves-off time and reveal your final hand to the Chinese/Japanese, muslims peeps et al… and the Russians too…
    Or do we Angloists stick to the icky-bittsie diplomacy stuff…?
    (A firm hand on the tiller either way is what’s needed)

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  241. Qshtik March 7, 2011 at 6:56 pm #

    this continued political insablity will result in $300 to $200 for a barrel of oil
    ==============
    Interesting word: “in sa blit y”
    Also interesting that you state a range of oil prices from high to low. I don’t think I have EVER seen a range stated any way except low to high. And it’s not like you just did it this one time. You also spoke of gas prices from $10 to $5. Where do you live? Where does one acquire this manner of expression? Or do you suffer from a new form of lexdisia?

  242. wagelaborer March 7, 2011 at 6:58 pm #

    So I was watching Democracy Now today. That’s where I get my news, and that’s why I knew not what Charlie Sheen did to upset folks.
    Anyway, they had a clip of Hilary Clinton explaining how the US State Dept. has many employees whose job it is to go on websites (including Arab) and influence the debate.
    Plus, Thom Hartman talked about going to a right wing think tank and all the young employees had wikipedia up on their screens, busily redoing the pages in a right wing fashion.
    So when these right wingers come on here to clusterfuck and spout their free market stuff, are they being paid?
    (Not Q, I think he’s a true believer). But the rest.

  243. rippedthunder March 7, 2011 at 7:03 pm #

    A firm hand on the tiller?? haha We have a ’57 ladder truck which has a tiller wheel on the back of the ladder. It is a hoot to drive. The young guys don’t seem to get it. turn left to go right! I love drivin’ the thing! Sum’ bitch is almost as old as me. It had a Hercules engine in it http://www.herculesengine.com/history.htm
    the head cracked so they replaced it with a Cummins straight 6 deisel. The thing still runs strong today , after almost 55 years

  244. wagelaborer March 7, 2011 at 7:09 pm #

    OK, that’s funny, K-dog.
    If the US media doesn’t report it, it couldn’t be important, could it?
    Ha, ha.
    Say, what’s going on with Charlie today?

  245. Belisarius March 7, 2011 at 7:16 pm #

    Charlie Sheen has credits for over sixty movies. I have seen six of those and remember him from two: Platoon and Arrival. Even not watching TV, it is near impossible not to know who he is.
    IMHO Charlie has (or had) more money than god and is way “eccentric”. The infotainment industry could accept eccentric as he made money for them. Speaking for 911 truth can still pass as eccentric and be downplayed. But it is NOT ALLOWED to be seen raising children with two concubines and the paid party girls.

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  246. newworld March 7, 2011 at 7:17 pm #

    Dear Jim please surf over to Denninger’s blog and scroll down till you come to Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr’s One Minute speech.
    Folks that is our government and that man is a verified specimen of the Left which is so worshipped around here.
    The tofu left allied with the cargo cult left, ain’t nothin good comin of it either.

  247. SNAFU March 7, 2011 at 7:26 pm #

    Hey Toots, My My you cut me to the quick with this jewel: “Which explains why you are jealous of anyone who has had the wit and determination to put some money away.”
    Am I to presume you have the temerity to include yourself in the top 1% crowd of which I was speaking?
    SNAFU

  248. progressorconserve March 7, 2011 at 7:30 pm #

    “So when these right wingers come on here to clusterfuck and spout their free market stuff, are they being paid?”
    -wage-
    Good question, wage, and not just for here. Without intending any disrespect to any of the regulars, or our host – I think this CFN comment thread is still small enough that we’re not getting a whole lot of that, if any.
    For example, TooTsie would be my first choice to study as a paid shill – but he looks EXACTLY like hundreds of regular and irregular FOX News commenters. And there’s no point in paying them to spew that RW nonsense on FOX – that’s what they are all there “for to see.”
    The idea of a RW think tank deliberately using staff to skew debate or Wikipedia entries is pretty chilling in its implications. But, that’s the way of the World we’ve found ourselves in.
    Do you know of any LW organizations trying to skew things the other way – or at least edit for truth and track the patterns of the RW “editors?”
    I may feel an urge to make a donation for common sense, here.

  249. AMR March 7, 2011 at 7:38 pm #

    Update from Humboldt:
    87 octane has been over $4.00/gallon for more than a week; it’s currently $4.06 at the cheapest stations and $4.10 at the most expensive ones. Bear River Pump ‘n’ Play, Renner Cardlock and Costco are usually twenty to thirty cents cheaper (I haven’t checked lately) but the former is practical only for those who live or do business in Fortuna or Loleta and the last two are members-only stations. The bottom line, in any event, is give or take at least $3.80 for the lucky.
    Diesel is averaging about $4.26, and it takes a fair bit of diesel even to stock our grocery stores. Winco alone has often been running two trucks a night into Eureka, I don’t know from where, but I’d be surprised if they’re coming from any closer than Redding or Grants Pass; more likely, Portland, Sac or the Bay Area. I assume that Safeway stocks its Humboldt County stores from the Bay Area; it has a monstrous warehouse just north of Vacaville and I believe some others south of the Delta. We can count on a round trip of over 300 miles, but usually a lot more, for anything that we have to import from a railhead.
    The old Northwestern Pacific line has been in the news this week because a rancher and Japanese instructor in SoHum is spearheading an effort to turn it into a rail trail. Most local politicians and journalists that I’m aware of are opposed to restoring rail service; in the words of Ryan Burns at the North Coast Journal, it’s “so Nineteenth Century.” The mayor of Arcata, who recently warned about peak oil someday forcing the rail line to be rebuilt, is a refreshing exception to this foolishness.
    I don’t look forward to the political mess that will arise when the proposed Willits-to-King Salmon bike path needs to be reconverted to rail.
    Traffic volumes seem to be as heavy as ever, and shlengtheners are still to be seen, although they seem just a bit less ubiquitous than before. There doesn’t seem to be a move to bus travel, partly because HTA sucks (especially its municipal services in Eureka and Arcata) and partly because there are a lot of lunatic happy motoring partisans around here (often the same people as the property-rights freaks, the SoHum contingent of whom are complaining about trespassers using the proposed rail trail).

  250. lbendet March 7, 2011 at 7:39 pm #

    Global Commodities Rigging
    Today on Dylan Ratigan, they discussed the inflated food prices around the world and that the bottom billion are suffering around the world including here in the US.
    One guest mentioned that the rising wheat prices effected mainly the ME, but rice, as staple of Asia has not been inflated. Because we are a global economy, although one guest claimed the US is flush with oil, we will still pay higher prices at the pumps.
    I can’t imagine that anyone outside of the top elite actually like globalism. I mentioned last week that someone who works at American Express said they were importing Indian workers for US offices. Question, when they say there is more private hiring in the US and that the unemployment numbers are going down, (right) who is being hired? What statistics can we study to find this out?
    There are so many workable parts to the crisis we are facing globally. For market manipulations at the expense of the well being of billions around the world check out :
    “The Global Economic Crisis: The Great Depression of the XXI Century” by Michel Chossudovsky
    this is an a few paragraphs down from the beginning. Of course he is discussing the issues of the food crisis that has led to the ME uprisings.
    excerpt from GLOBAL POVERTY, FOOD RIOTS, AND THE ECONOMIC CRISIS 2011
    [Government and intergovernmental organizations are complicit in these developments. The state’s economic and financial policies are controlled by private corporate interests. Speculative trade is not the object of regulatory policies, and in fact the opposite holds true: the framework of speculative trade in the commodity exchanges is protected by the state. Moreover, the provision of food, water and fuel are no longer the object of governmental or intergovernmental regulation or intervention with a view to alleviating poverty or averting the outbreak of famines.
    Largely obfuscated by official and media reports, both the “food crisis” and the “oil crisis” are the result of the speculative manipulation of market values by powerful economic actors. And because these powerful economic actors operate through a seemingly neutral and “invisible” market mechanism, the devastating social impacts of engineered hikes in the prices of food, fuel and water are casually dismissed as the result of supply and demand considerations.
    We are not dealing with distinct and separate food, fuel and water “crises” but with a global process of economic and social restructuring. The dramatic price hikes of these three essential commodities are not haphazard. All three variables, including the prices of basic food staples, water for production and consumption and fuel, are the object of a process of deliberate and simultaneous market manipulation.]

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  251. ozone March 7, 2011 at 7:46 pm #

    “Roosterville? Does such a place really exist? Near Boston Corners? The one atlas I have here doesn’t show it. When it warms up I’ll have to ride up there and check it out for myself. Is there a sign on Rte. 8 that says Roosterville?” -Marlin554
    lol Cock-a-doodle-doooo! (Really sounds more like: Er-e-er-e-errrrr!)
    Google it, man! Hard to believe, but it be thar, yonder. roosterville, ma Just before New Boston and Sandisfield. There’s a sign on Rt.8 for Roosterville Rd., but that’s about it. I don’t think it ever thrived, because it’s located on some flats down by the W. Branch of the Farmington. Can you say, “unsafe”? I knew ya could. ;o)

  252. ozone March 7, 2011 at 8:00 pm #

    That tactic seems to be working pretty well.
    That post from Whatzit-from-ohio was a fine example of some messy RW spew. Another fine “informed” dolt from the land of many enchantments and teevee.

  253. Warren Peace March 7, 2011 at 8:04 pm #

    And then there’s this:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/8359076/US-farmers-fear-the-return-of-the-Dust-Bowl.html
    Looks like oil is not the only thing we’re quickly running out of.

  254. MarlinFive54 March 7, 2011 at 8:04 pm #

    BustinJ;
    Are you a prof somewhere? You sound alot like some friends ’round heya who’ve spent their lives in academia?
    Friendly enough people … a little arrogant toward their intellectual inferiors (me), effete, iconoclastic, antagonistic toward their middle class neighbors and the wealthy, at the same time enjoying a pretty secure and comfortable life themselves. Altogether not bad sorts. When the shit hits the fan I don’t know how useful they’ll be, though. Solzhenietsen addresses the role of the intellectual in times of trouble in his ‘Gulag’ books.
    Just wondering, that’s all.
    Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  255. lbendet March 7, 2011 at 8:04 pm #

    So Wage,
    Last week I posted something about Cass Sunstein, one of Obama’s people suggesting a similar approach to controlling what people think, by posting on websites in order to counter “conspiracy theories”. This method is called cognitive infiltration.
    I guess we’ve got it going on from both sides.
    [Sunstein advocates that the Government’s stealth infiltration should be accomplished by sending covert agents into “chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups.”  He also proposes that the Government make secret payments to so-called “independent” credible voices to bolster the Government’s messaging (on the ground that those who don’t believe government sources will be more inclined to listen to those who appear independent while secretly acting on behalf of the  Government).]

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  256. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 8:12 pm #

    Wage,

    Plus, Thom Hartman talked about going to a right wing think tank and all the young employees had wikipedia up on their screens, busily redoing the pages in a right wing fashion.

    NFS
    I discovered this when I found some FACTUAL information being misrepresented on Wikipeadia last week. I signed up to fix the info and was soon in a battle to try and fix it. The information I’m talking about I won’t get into, that’s not the point. The info did however support a right wing point of view in its misrepresentation and even had a junk science citation to legitimize it.
    The information I tried to change is still on Wikipeadia to mislead and hurt. I did not have the status to change it. I now use Google chrome to do ALL my web searches because it has an ad-on that allows me to block Wikipeadia permanently.
    The Google Chrome extension is called Personal Blocklist.
    If anyone wants to know the specifics of the information I tried to correct, ask. That would be appropriate in a separate post.

  257. progressorconserve March 7, 2011 at 8:13 pm #

    Vanpool, Hybrid Passenger Car, Motorcycles, Passenger Rail Amtrak,Rail (Heavy),Light Rail, Airplanes, Cars, Personal Truck, Buses
    According to US govt figures (yeah, I know) the above is the list of passenger vehicles from most efficient to least efficient.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_efficiency_in_transportation
    Some of this seems counterintuitive, but there are assumptions and/or projections about passenger loads to consider. For example, passenger trains and buses spend a great deal of time running with very light passenger loads – since the driver/operator does not count.
    Whereas, the driver of a passenger car/truck always counts. Which makes sense – if the driver doesn’t need to go, why even crank the thing up?
    My overriding point – ALL of this stuff takes fuel to run. And it is going to take more that years, DECADES, to get Americans out of their cars.
    And that exercise is counterproductive, anyway – since a hybrid passenger car is much more efficient than any train or any bus.

  258. progressorconserve March 7, 2011 at 8:18 pm #

    Chrome – “it has an ad-on that allows me to block Wikipeadia permanently.”
    – kdog-
    Yeah, I’m interested. This is scary stuff in it’s implications. I’ve never yet run into a Wikipedia page that was off in a *major sort of way,* you know, that changed something really important factually.

  259. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 8:31 pm #

    As useful as Wikipeadia can be sometimes I am not going to waste my time having to question and double check everything it serves up. My reaction may seem extreme to some but Wikipeadia is out my life, like FOX news. I refuse to watch it. I value my brain.

  260. progressorconserve March 7, 2011 at 8:35 pm #

    Yikes – Lbend, I know who Wage is going to think of first – without doubt – Little ol’ PoC.
    “…controlling what people think, by posting on websites in order to counter “conspiracy theories””
    -lbend-
    This sort of looking for CFN moles and counteragents could get out of hand in a hurry!
    Wage – I SWEAR
    on a stack of Bibles – scratch that
    on all that is Holy – d*mn, that won’t work
    on a Old Farmers Almanac – will that work? 😉
    That I’m just a skeptical Southern boy with no agenda and receiving no payments for disinformation. – or payments for information, for that matter.
    This is weird stuff, too – I’ll freely admit.

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  261. jammer March 7, 2011 at 8:35 pm #

    TV free America… The Environmental Movement of the Mind

  262. progressorconserve March 7, 2011 at 8:40 pm #

    I’d like to see the Wikipedia page and the info in question, Kdog – if you would be so kind.
    I can not begin to tell you how much I’d miss Wikipedia. But I’ve got an open mind – if something has to be flushed, I’ll flush it.
    But it also makes me wonder if there is something internal to Wikipedia that could fix this problem.
    They do keep asking for donations, after all.
    I’m all ears, kdog. Hit us with what you’ve got.

  263. asoka March 7, 2011 at 9:04 pm #

    Damn, k-dog, you are on a roll!
    Last week you make the brilliant proposal that posts be limited to one screen, which I immediately adopted for my posts, with the fringe benefit of experiencing a concision high as a result.
    Now, you are educating us how to block Wikipedia, because Wikipedia is full of errors (not to mention that the articles are anonymous, can be edited by anybody (even idiots like Asoka), and you have no idea who is contributing or what their agenda is).
    Right on, k-dog! I am blocking Wikipedia, also.

  264. helen highwater March 7, 2011 at 9:11 pm #

    Up here in Canada we are already paying $5.00 a gallon, and in some places more, for gas. And people are still buying SUVs, Hummers and some of the biggest pickup trucks I’ve ever seen. I guess they don’t see any problem with that.

  265. SeaYoung March 7, 2011 at 9:13 pm #

    Thoughts for the Day
    CNN this morning reported this morning that Gaddafi was attacking his own people. Really? Did CNN expect a different reaction?
    I believe Abe Lincoln used the same tactic after Rebels bombarded Ft Sumter in tha War of Northern Aggression. Very subliminal I thought; shouldn’t the report be that he fired on rebels, freedom fighters, or some appropriate descriptive adjective?
    Why Drill Here Drill Now? Save some for the grandchildren. Don’t we own and occupy Iraq? Capacity pre-war was 2.8 Mb/day. If we decide not to share, that should quench our domestic thirst.

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  266. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 9:16 pm #

    Look up drug test in Wikipeadia and you will find near the bottom.
    Under the urban myth section.

    Cannabis remains detectable in urine for 30 days or more
    While this is technically true in some cases, more recent studies have shown that detection times of 30+ days are actually quite exceptional, even for chronic users subjected to tests with lower than normal cutoffs. Under the typical 50 ng/mL cutoff for THC in the United States, an occasional or one-off user would be very unlikely to test positive beyond 3–4 days since the last use, and a chronic user would be unlikely to test positive much beyond 10 days. Using a more sensitive cutoff of 20 ng/mL (less common but still used by some labs), the most likely maximum times are 7 days and 21 days, respectively.[40]

    From california NORML we get.

    Aside from launching a legal challenge, your best defense against urine testing is to be clean. Unfortunately, this may be difficult since urine tests may detect marijuana 1-7 days after an occasional use, 1-3 weeks in regular users, and up to 3 months in multiple daily users

    A huge difference, and this could certainly cause some people into not getting employed. Most people with any heart wouldn’t support any drug test that detects waste products of a drug over a period of time longer than it would take a person to complete rehab.
    The most potent weapon in the government’s war on drugs is drug testing, so it is obviously important to some to misrepresent the facts.
    Anybody who can’t refrain from cannabis use for a mere three weeks tops certainly has a problem. I agree. But that’s quite a difference from the true facts concerning detection times.
    Who sponsored the junk science that is cited in Wikipeadia you ask?
    The National Drug Court Institute.
    Call me crazy but I’m thinking there might be a conflict of interest there.
    And for those wondering. Is k-dog looking for a job? Yes I am. Can k-dog pass a drug test? Yes I can.
    But somebody reading Wikipeadia and nothing else could get hurt and probably will.

  267. rippedthunder March 7, 2011 at 9:19 pm #

    gasoline is 4 bucks a gal. here in western ma, thats for the cheap crap.who cares?I have a four banger/stick, and soon i wil be drmy iving R60/2. i am really thinking of puin the Honda CL 160 on the road. can you say 100 mpg?

  268. San Jose Mom 51 March 7, 2011 at 9:24 pm #

    Alexandra,
    Methinks Obama has lost his shine. Every speech he gives seems to me to be adding new dinge to the word lackluster. He says things, but actions don’t follow…so who cares.
    My husband, who is 100X more optimistic than I will ever be, mentioned that he is completely disappointed with Obama.
    Change of topic….do you know anyone attending the big wedding? I remember getting up at some ungodly time of night (4:00 a.m.?) when Chuck and Di got married. Back in those days I was putting husband #1 thru medical school….things were getting grim and I wished I were Princess Diana. Funny how things are not as they appear.
    Cheerio,
    Jen

  269. DavidinLosAngeles March 7, 2011 at 9:24 pm #

    JHK is a “cultural critic” and a “social commentator”, so watching CNN and network news shows is part of his job (I suppose), but I wish he’d turn the TV off. Last week he mentioned the Kardashians, this week Charlie Sheen. If you don’t watch TV these people hardly enter your consciousness. I’m beginning to think he’s getting overly aggravated and developing a touch of cognitive dissonance. Let’s hope not. Anyway, kill your TV, Everybody. You’ll be much more relaxed and clearheaded. An occasional DVD is fine. Stop drinking, eat healthy food, and read informative books. I’m not self-righteous, just do as I say.

  270. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 9:30 pm #

    Idiots like k-dog and Asoka can change Wikipeadia yes but we don’t have Editor status. Sitting in front of a screen at a right or left wing think tank all day and pounding away at Wikipeadia entries gives one Editor status.

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  271. Mike Hicks March 7, 2011 at 9:36 pm #

    As a long time weekly reader of this forum I seldom comment, but let me pass along some real world reminders about oil shortage.
    In 1973, 74 I was early 20 something saw the result of the oil embargo, or whatever it really was.
    -long lines at gas stations
    -gas stations closed on Sundays was Gov’t
    mandated.
    -high prices, although cheap compared to today
    -government plans to ration gas. Never did.
    -Oh, God forbid I almost forget. Nascar races
    shortened to save gas.
    Now at that time it was a inconvenence no doubt, but also at that time stores were closed on Sundays. We didn’t have to shop 7 days a week. The population just wasn’t on the move like we are today.
    This inconvenence last just a few short months and it was over.
    If again we have oil interruption we will likely experience the above again and it could be a new way of life.
    Now this would be a shock to go go go life style.

  272. Belisarius March 7, 2011 at 9:43 pm #

    Do you think pump prices are higher than they were when oil was at this level last time? So did i and here is what i came up with when trying to figure out why. (All prices to nearest penny).
    There are 44+ gallons of product derived from a typical oil barrel. So at $100 per barrel raw product cost averages $2.27 per gal. If one adds a compounding 10% ea for refinery cost and transport/storage, then add 5% current retail margin, the gas price equals $2.89 per gallon before tax. Add federal tax and cost is 3.07 before state (and maybe local) tax. After adding my state tax and checking my arithmetic there isa n unexplained .21 per gallon extra cost. I’m wondering who is raking off the extra?
    But then i see the mistake. Our national project to burn food and starve the third world has gotten more expensive, and that 10% ethanol added to each gallon is now more costly than the gasoline it replaces(about $3.60 gal wholesale) which adds .13 per gallon to the base refinery cost and explains the higher total price. Now i’m so happy (not).

  273. Prelapsarian Press March 7, 2011 at 9:43 pm #

    What happened around that time was that he shucked the old wife, and got himself a brand-spanking new right-wing populist, true-believer model. I was told this by the former employer of wife number two. His views have been strategically tailored ever since around objectives of domestic peace. Gives new meaning to the old charge against him of being a “house conservative,” which conservatives used to level for making his bones with the Wash Post by attacking Nixon during Watergate.
    He is a man who knows what side his bread is buttered on.

  274. Vernon March 7, 2011 at 9:49 pm #

    We can save the world and peak oil is not necessarily the harbinger of doom. Find out more at:
    http://boardofthebanned.net/blog/

  275. ian807 March 7, 2011 at 9:54 pm #

    Wow, what insight. We’re all quite impressed with your critique of a nuclear engineer who thought enough of the American people to think that they wouldn’t sell their souls to the Arabs so they could keep on driving to McDonalds. Surprise! I guess people like you really showed him, eh?
    So, how you likin’ those oil prices now, eh “Tootsie?” And enlighten us all, what’s *your* degree in? Fashion? Ballet? Or maybe you never quite finished, or started college. Just maybe.

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  276. Ixnei March 7, 2011 at 9:59 pm #

    I’ve been lurking here for almost a year now. I read most of the comments during the week (70% to completely), and pretty much find anything I’d want to say, has already been stated.
    As to my background, I spent the 90’s reducing my carbon footprint, walking, biking, or public transporting – thinking it would make a difference. Disillusionment set in, as I saw exponential breeding resulting in spoiled rotten brats, gifted sub-20MPG guzzlers at 16, who put at least 6K miles/year on their multiple ton tanks. This more than offset any effect I might have had, with my delusional intensions. The obvious hopelessness of the situation set in around ’98, but I never gave up on minimizing my *contribution*.
    At any rate, it’s obvious that certain posters here are shills (TzaTza/EtcEtc). What isn’t so obvious is that this same shill has many sock puppets, that he uses to bolster himself. Take for example the TragicHipster/Großdeutschland connection. These two appear to have popped up once Tza finally got banned.
    What I don’t understand, is why JHK/his WEB moderators don’t simply ban that jackasses’ IP address. Unless, of course, he’s using proxy services, or faking his IP header…
    Just remember, there are over 1,000,000 six-figure-salaried-US-government-stalkers now, thanks to the Patriot Act and Homeland Security…

  277. ForceMultiplier March 7, 2011 at 10:01 pm #

    The comment by NewWorld at 11:53AM is a dagger in the heart of liberals and their respectable lapdogs; a hot knife thru a slab of butter. Like a world class brain surgeon liturally carving up liberals with “military precision”. NewWorld and VladKranz are generals in the burgeoning Pro-White armies, constantly rounding up you anti-whites into kessels; and as the pro-white/anti-white-genocide movement grows, the rings tighten, until eventually anti-whites (with their cults and industries) are vanquished “like a mosquito”.

  278. rubyruth March 7, 2011 at 10:10 pm #

    High speed rail our future? More like hobos hopping freight trains!

  279. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 10:11 pm #

    As to my background, I spent the 90’s reducing my carbon footprint, walking, biking, or public transporting – thinking it would make a difference.

    Some survivors of the seventies even went so far as to only have one or no children because they were worried about this thing called overpopulation.
    That gives new meaning to pissing in the wind. Well not exactly pissing……..

  280. Ixnei March 7, 2011 at 10:20 pm #

    Absolutely – 0 children here. I’d never bring someone into this reality, knowing what I know. It disgusts me when the rabbits (rats) breed more than 2 children…
    I feel sorry for the children/grandchildren – every one born in the US now essentially bears a debt of something > $300,000. Talk about selling your children/grandchildren into indentured servitude…

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  281. Qshtik March 7, 2011 at 10:23 pm #

    I’m guessing that the press is on to get rid of Charlie Sheen, because of his truth speech.
    =============
    Well you would be guessing wrong Wage. The press, not to mention the producers of Two and a Half Men, are about the least likely people in the world to want to get rid of Charlie Sheen.
    Sheen is their cash cow. To say he is a cottage industry would be gross under-statement.
    All you I-don’t-own-a-TV snobs out there are a bunch of assholes in my book. Too bad for you … you’ve been missing one of the most hilarious shows ever. Essentially it’s a somewhat cleaned-up version of Sheen’s actual life; he plays the ultimate lothario.
    While I’m generally disgusted by celebrity watching it would be as hard to turn away from the Sheen smash-up as it would be a train wreck. I’ve been reading all the NYT articles and watching the many interviews he’s done.
    As we all know by now, Sheen is notorious for having spent tens of thousands of dollars on prostitutes, escort services, etc. The cleverest line came when an interviewer asked Sheen “do you pay women for sex?” and he replied instantly and with a straight face, “No, I pay them to leave.”

  282. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 10:28 pm #

    “All you I-don’t-own-a-TV snobs out there are a bunch of assholes in my book.”
    Assholes with lives.

  283. ForceMultiplier March 7, 2011 at 10:31 pm #

    It aint that bad, jeez. Don’t worry, artificial intelligence robots will solve all our problems or give us all a quick painless death…hahahah. I’m all for being more energy efficient and conservation, but you people wanting to “redistribute wealth” by taking it from many of the best and brightest and giving it to the worst and dumbest are Bat Crap Crazy!

  284. progressorconserve March 7, 2011 at 10:33 pm #

    The wikipedia thing is interesting, K. I appreciate you posting it up for us. There are a couple of disclaimers in the entry as stated “most people,” is one of them. So maybe that’s why it will be hard to get changed any further.
    Maybe NORML can help the situation. I didn’t see an citation to NORML on the wikipedia page for “drug test.”
    While I’m climbing on a soapbox – the whole situation as regards drug testing is asinine. And I had no idea that the excretion times for THC metabolites were as long as they are. My bottom line is that someone who gets high on Saturday night on grass should be able to do any job by Monday morning. The idea that businesses test marijuana use back so far into an individual’s history is – nothing but a violation of 1st amendment rights.
    =============
    And on population growth – yeah, the Zero Population Growth movement was a great idea – and it worked to a large extent in the US and Europe. Unfortunately, the rest of the World – and US Immigration Policy Makers – failed to get the word.

  285. BICO-2 March 7, 2011 at 10:34 pm #

    I’m confused. Is Paris Hilton one of the best & brightest, or one of the worst & dumbest?

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  286. Tim S March 7, 2011 at 10:34 pm #

    The situation with railroads in the USA is that they are almost all main-line, and there is essentially no LCL (less-than-carload) freight. The branch lines that served small towns disappeared in the middle of the 20th century, or earlier. The RRs now are really best at transporting bulk cargo, like coal, chemicals, and some oil, from a major point of origin to a large city.
    Also, rail in the US could not attract talent for management or operations. Who wants to work for a fossilized industry?
    Passenger service in the US is a joke, by any first world standards.
    It would take enormous resources to reconstruct a usable freight rail system in this country, i.e. one that could deliver goods to your local supermarket (or close-by, at any rate). Still, it would be cheaper than maintaining the idiotic interstate highway system (which we’re going to punt on anyway).

  287. ForceMultiplier March 7, 2011 at 10:40 pm #

    Speeking of Sheen, I saw Jeraldo Rivera call Sheen an anti-semite because Sheen called a hollywood producer by his real jewish name. Rivera actually gave said producers real jewish name before saying that Sheen was an anti-semite for giving the real jewish name. Then Rivera went on to say that Sheen got away with abusing women for more than a decade but that he’ll be blackballed instantly in Hollywood for the slightest percieved anti-semitism. In essence, Rivera said what that fellow white hispanic from CNN said (that Jews controll hollywood and the media) but Rivera covered himself by accusing Sheen of “anti-semitism” in the beginning.

  288. ForceMultiplier March 7, 2011 at 10:43 pm #

    Does one dingbat represent all of Western Civilization?

  289. Ixnei March 7, 2011 at 10:44 pm #

    “Cannabis remains detectable in urine”
    LOL, d00d – just eat a lot of H2O and Niacin for a day or two/./

  290. BICO-2 March 7, 2011 at 10:57 pm #

    a lot of rich dingbats, 2 & 3 generations beyond the best & brightest in their gene pool who made all that money.

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  291. BICO-2 March 7, 2011 at 11:01 pm #

    oops, a lot of rich dingbats ARE 2-3 generations…

  292. ForceMultiplier March 7, 2011 at 11:05 pm #

    I’m not in that world, but it seems to me that the children of ‘old money’ typically rise to high achievement levels; afterall, genetics has alot to do with it. Besides, if I make it big, I want my children to enjoy the fruits of my labour (within reason of course).

  293. ForceMultiplier March 7, 2011 at 11:06 pm #

    By NewWorld:
    “Hannity is a Blank Slater, he is your “respectable conservative” opposition.
    Wordism is dying. Magic thinking while fun is still magic thinking.
    Its why I say, “The left is comprised of cults rigidly segregated.” Because if it were not segregated it would splinter into a million pieces that not even Sean Hannity could puff up into a juggernaut that his “opposition” to sells books.
    You back to the Earth white liberals don’t even have the decency to ask the colored folk outside your coalition what they think, you “assume” they share your ideology. Last I noticed LaRaza and the NAACP existed to get more for their people, and more does not mean giving up the cars, the bling and the stupid pop culture you all deride.
    Hating white people and displacing their children is evil and that is about the only thing the Left has in common, cuz its certainly not a love for organic farming (a demo whiter than the KKK”

  294. ForceMultiplier March 7, 2011 at 11:11 pm #

    Africa for Africans, Asia for Asians, White Countries for Everybody
    Annihilation by Assimilation
    Every white country on earth is supposed to become multicultural and multiracial. EVERY white country is expected to end its own race and end its own culture. No one asks that of ANY non-white country.
    The Netherlands is more crowded than Japan, Belgium is more crowded than Taiwan, but nobody says Japan or Taiwan will solve the RACE problem by bringing in millions of third-worlders and assimilating and intermarrying with them.
    Everybody says the final solution to the RACE problem is for EVERY white country and ONLY white countries to bring in the third world and assimilate with them.
    Immigration, tolerance, and especially assimilation are being used against the white race.
    All this immigration and intermarriage is for EVERY white country and ONLY white countries.
    Anti-white is called anti-racist, but it leads to the disappearance of one race and only one race, the white race.
    It is genocide.
    Nationalsalvation.net

  295. rubyruth March 7, 2011 at 11:13 pm #

    Um, JHK takes one for team clusterfuck- he of course gets most of his information by following and synthesizing media, which includes t.v.

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  296. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 11:14 pm #

    The disclaimers don’t excuse deception in my opinion. It gets more interesting though. Wikipeadia actually has a ‘drug policy’ and when I attempted to credit NORML with their information I was told that it was a “Special Interest Group” and not credible. Apparently the ‘The National Drug Court Institute’ is not.
    Overpopulation is the driving force behind my objections to current immigration policies. Besides which immigrants in general tend to support the conservative status quo, as they are two busy trying to fit in too question the powers that be. Immigrants are a right wing dream and I am truly amazed that those who have left wing predilections frequently advocate open immigration policies.

  297. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 11:18 pm #

    Yes, JHK has to watch FOX so he can write about what the sheep are thinking. I’m happy I’m not in his position.

  298. BICO-2 March 7, 2011 at 11:20 pm #

    Go, ForceMultiplier!
    No really. Go.

  299. John66 March 7, 2011 at 11:22 pm #

    Damn straight, Jim!
    All those years of supporting dictatorships in order to keep the oil flowing will come back to haunt us in the form of long lines at the pump.

  300. Steve M. March 7, 2011 at 11:23 pm #

    George Will hates public surface transportation because he hates anything that doesn’t make a profit. There’s plenty of money to be made in what the Brits call the motor trade – i.e., car sales – and airlines have been using their dominance of intercity travel to make out like bandits – skimpy amenities and crowded cabins for a fast buck.

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  301. rubyruth March 7, 2011 at 11:24 pm #

    My will and intellect is not broken. What is this “we” shit anyhow?
    Why not say “this country has an ethos of…” to take a collectivist way, or, “this country has many individuals who…”
    To JHK-
    I was obsessed with your blog when I was going through a serious phase of mental illness. I feel a lot better now, and read and often enjoy your blog, however, I have a different slant on your writings than before. Before, I got freaked out taking your predictions seriously.
    It’s important and necessary work you are doing digging for the reality of the time we are in. It’s also important work to stay levelheaded. Remember, it is a LONG emergency.

  302. jackieblue2u March 7, 2011 at 11:26 pm #

    Yes the show is Hilarious. Love his brother also.

  303. Shakazulu March 7, 2011 at 11:31 pm #

    “No mouthy “advisors” cluttering up the West Wing (or disrupting the laser light show of Charlie’s thoughts).”
    At least Chuckie Estevez exhibits some evidence of the capacity for thought. Something not required of our current leader, who comes in off the golf course just long enough to read the nearest teleprompter shoved in front of his face. Nothing more has been required of this cheap suit for two years.
    But I don’t blame him. It’s a great gig if you can get it. Duhmericans have been successfully trained to think only in narrow, politically-approved channels, or to keep their thoughts to themselves. In another few years guys like Charlie Sheen, who dare speak anything but newspeak in public, will be joining Solzhenitsyn at the Gulags.
    Not that I’m for vatican trained assasin warlocks walking loose among the zombies.

  304. k-dog March 7, 2011 at 11:32 pm #

    I am currently taking prescription Niacin to lower cholesterol under a doctors order. Since the general public seems to think drug testing is fine perhaps the for profit drug testing industry can start testing for that and report that I have something to hide. Perhaps they can report that my cholesterol is too high and I should be passed over as a health risk. There is nothing to stop them in a society that has forgotten the fourth amendment. Medical science has progressed far enough that lots of information can be gleaned from someone’s pe pe.

  305. Chris C March 7, 2011 at 11:35 pm #

    It is very disturbing that they are thinking about drawing down the strategic reserve for this at this time. It’s like they know the world will end in 2012 anyway so WTF. Also our (FL) governor won’t let us have the train. So again is it like it doesn’t matter anymore?

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  306. ForceMultiplier March 7, 2011 at 11:41 pm #

    Why, what have I said that you disagree with? My first post was humerously serious.

  307. jackieblue2u March 7, 2011 at 11:45 pm #

    JHK wrote something about Globalism falling apart because it is too complicated and it just won’t work, I am having a hard time explaining this, but it was like things will be WILL HAVE TO BE, local, and alot of the rules and the way things are being done is going to change.
    It would be worth going back and trying to find that date. Maybe 6 months ago. Maybe I will look for it, if I do, I will let you know. I liked it alot, it made alot of sense, to me anyway.
    Todays writing is one of the best IMO.

  308. ForceMultiplier March 7, 2011 at 11:51 pm #

    Anybody see the ‘Prophets of Doom’ on the History Channel? I got the feeling some of the panel were a bit frightened of the Robot guy; like if robots much smarter than humans can solve all these energy and resources problems within the next hundred years, how will I convince people to contribute money to MY cause/industry? Also, the robot guy said the robots might decide we (humans) are inferior and useless and may very well vanquish us “like a mosquito”; apparantly, this race for more and more artificial intelligence can’t be stopped – just like the race for superior weaponry can’t be stopped. Not saying I believe it totally, but it was funny.

  309. Carolinem March 8, 2011 at 12:12 am #

    My heart is bleeding for you guys. Here Down Under we ALREADY paying the equivalent of US$6.83 / gallon (what a quaint unit of measurement that is!)

  310. ForceMultiplier March 8, 2011 at 12:27 am #

    Some of that was in the show ‘Prophets of Doom’. I believe the Nazis envisioned a folkish lifestyle for Aryans; kind of like a gigantic omish continent, except not pacifist – naturally. Now just because the Nazis horribly misused their pro-Aryan movement, doesn’t mean that all their ideas were bad. Afterall, Christianity has been often horribly misused as well, but we don’t ban Crosses.

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  311. jackieblue2u March 8, 2011 at 12:27 am #

    My mother and father worked in the meat dept. at Safeway, and said the same thing. Don’t eat the hamburger.
    I remembered that.
    One of the Real Jobs I had, was indoor horticulture. I love plants. One of the accounts was MacD’s. I would have to walk thru the kitchen all the way to the back to get the water, and then back thru to the eating area, I’d be sticky with grease just from that. It was Gross.
    This isn’t food. I can’t believe how many people make it a lifestyle. I think for some it’s because they can get it without getting out of their cars.
    Actually they are cutting down the Rainforest in Brazil so they can raise Mac D’s cows. Guess that works for a few years, then the land is no good.
    I love Rainforests and this is a crying shame.
    Few things piss me off more.
    Rainforests take Thousands / Millions of years to evolve and to me the Redwood Forest is The most awesome irreplaceable place on Earth. They clearcut much of that also.
    THE LAST RESORT BY DON HENLEY ON YOUTUBE
    LOVE THE LYRICS. kind of a slow depressing song, but every word is true.
    I do know who Charie Sheen is tho, and I watch TV, etc. Hey one of the guys on American Idol is from Santa Cruz, he’s in the top 10. My sister watches this. I am watching because he’s on it this time. I read books alot also, when I am not on CFN !
    I saw a Tee Shirt that said American Idiot, with the same colors as the show. If they would have had a tank top for women I would have bought it.
    I don’t like tee shirts on me.
    A head of lettuce is 3.00 today.
    And that isn’t organic, organic would be more.
    Covered many topics here. All over the place, rambling.
    Going to turn this off and give my brain a rest, and read a book.

  312. ForceMultiplier March 8, 2011 at 12:40 am #

    You remind me of Fara Faucet in Cannonball Run, “I love trees”….hahah. I agree with what you said. Please tell me you’d give a prime Fara Faucet a run for her money. And reading is excercise for your brain, how do you rest your brain by reading?

  313. peakhaiku March 8, 2011 at 1:12 am #

    WOW! That is a lot of comments. Anyway, here goes.
    oh yes it’s kuntsler
    not just another punter
    won’t lead asunder

  314. Eleuthero March 8, 2011 at 2:22 am #

    Much as I’d like to share in the wide-eyed
    optimism of the altfuels believers, our
    current trouble (i.e., all the oil being
    in places that hate us) is magnified by
    the absolute moratorium Obama put on
    drilling because ONE company was criminally
    negligent.
    I hate to break it to the altfuels utopians
    but ordinary power is like a quarter per
    kilowatt hour but the nascent, not-quite-there-
    yet altfuels are delivering at about ten to
    one-hundred times this cost.
    Obama is betting the farm on technologies that
    are a GENERATION away while our very real current
    problems won’t wait that long for a solution.
    Indeed, the dark comedy is that there might be
    a ten to fifteen year gap between the virtual
    end of oil and a full-speed altfuels industry.
    A darker comedy is that the altfuels industry
    depends, lock/stock/barrel, on the existence
    of the standard fossil fuels industry to make
    all of its components, to mine the metal to
    make its components, and to transport them to
    the remote destinations (like unoccupied
    deserts for solar) where they will supply
    power.
    It’s not that I don’t wish with all my heart
    that altfuels were at full speed delivering
    dirt cheap power. It’s just my observation
    that we do not HAVE THE TIME between the
    virtual end of oil and the time it takes for
    a viable altfuels industry to take over.
    E.

  315. Vlad Krandz March 8, 2011 at 2:29 am #

    Read some of Kunstler’s posts from two years ago – about how Obama grew up poor and had to buy tube socks in quantity! He bought it ALL! The Hidden Hand has rested on Obama since his earliest days. They have been preparing his Advent for decades. His education was paid for and his record has been sealed.
    I have yet to see you people struggle against yourselves. Yes we may be biocomputers but we have a unique ability to reprogram ourslves – if we but WILL it. But no one can do this for you. And if you don’t do it, you will be taken in again. Probably the next time they will use a woman – and the media will make a big deal about that and you all will go limp, convusle, drool, and wet yourselves in ecstasy.

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  316. k-dog March 8, 2011 at 2:38 am #

    “Obama is betting the farm on technologies that
    are a GENERATION away while our very real current
    problems won’t wait that long for a solution.”
    I think you are confusing inaction with a master plan.

  317. Tim S March 8, 2011 at 3:51 am #

    Totally agree that we cannot afford high-speed rail in the US. What we need is medium-speed rail, or even low-speed but reliable and frequent passenger and freight rail.

  318. Ixnei March 8, 2011 at 5:00 am #

    “I am currently taking prescription Niacin to lower cholesterol under a doctors order.”
    As claims my brother-in-law. No flush crap, as if he really has a cholesterol problem…
    I’m not talking that no flush/slow release crap. I’m talking 100-200mg every hour or two, the straight stuff. I’m hearing echoes of “7 storey mountains” right about now…

  319. Alexandra March 8, 2011 at 5:47 am #

    @ San Jose Mom 51
    *Do you know anyone attending the big wedding?*
    Yes Jen (my cousin will), she was at Charles & Camilla’s too. Though the ‘young ones’ have been told to play it down a tad, post the attack on the royals when the student riots kicked-orf, last year. The Dress will come via Alexander McQueen’s side-kick Sarah Burton…
    And you know what they say?
    Tis the ‘power’ behind the throne that really counts…
    What for me will be more interesting, is to see whether Colin Firth sticks to his guns and turns down his imminent gong?
    That’s what’s so predictable about u’man beans, the underlings so poo-pooh the upper-classes till they get a ‘real’ shot at it, then they just can’t help it (they lap it up), like flies on sh#t… and go whole-hog for it…
    *sniggers*
    Oh yes…. I love watchin selective TV, defo sassy/sexy/scot Niall Ferguson and his current ditty on C4 re: Empire & Globalisation… competition… competition… competition – why we beat China on round two… though they’re about to nail you/us… watch and see folks.
    Next week Science…
    And to borrow from stepford-wifelet advocate the ‘Vladmanator’ – a subject and presenter I can wet myself in ecstasy over…

  320. James Crow March 8, 2011 at 6:44 am #

    Firstly Jim provides a product. He is a doomsayer and each week the unknowingly unenlightened salivate for their weekly dose of Kunstlerosity. Jim cannot suddenly switch gears and admit he’s being saying the same thing in as many clever ways as he can come up with for 6 years — without ever having been right — or really worrying whether his “predictions” will ever come true. Secondly anyone who truly believes that there are “elections” in the USA might as well join the “Tea Party” and switch to foxnews/MSM for their fix. Thirdly there won’t be any “revolution” here in the USA since the vast majority of our population don’t even realize our “democracy” went the way of the Studebaker decades ago. Fourthly the Lovers of Money running the USA aren’t about to give up their control. Fifthly those who hold the power keep the population of the USA’s collective head spinning with a barrage of “is it true or is it a lie?” whilst never forgetting that divide and conquer continues to work every time it is used: locally, nationally or world-wide. A little dose of reality to counter Jim’s one-size-fits-all ponderings for this week. Jim missed his true calling as the weekly astrology writer for US magazine. He does a damn fine job sounding specific when his proclamations are in fact quite vague. “…the ambiguity is over there in a box!”

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  321. Madcat March 8, 2011 at 6:55 am #

    PRD and Mila “Man, doesn’t it seem sort of dream-like right now? I feel like part of a small cadre of people walking around with this crazy, dark knowledge, thinking as I look at others rushing around me: “You have no idea — and wouldn’t believe me if I told you.”
    – you guys are not alone feeling that way, it’s surreal.

  322. MarlinFive54 March 8, 2011 at 7:27 am #

    Ripthunder;
    Suddenly, almost overnight, snow disappearing, melting fast. Only about 50% of property covered up now, and snow pack down to about 6″.
    The question is, what about those snow piles, packed tight and hard as New Hampshire granite, 20 ft. tall! How long will it take for those things to melt off? I’m guessing sometime in early May.
    Lots of flooding in these parts. In one of his books JHK talks about the environmental damage caused by countless square miles of pavement and concrete laid down since 1905, causing water to run off into culverts and sewer drains, preventing it from sinking into the earth and settling into aquifiers. That’s probably what’s happening here.
    Ripthunder, about what date do you get out into your plots and begin working over that black earth with spade and hoe? I’m thinking the sooner the better, if for nothing else to restore my sanity after this winter of discontent and inactivity. Also, will be breaking out my 1944 Royal Enfield one lunger (long stroke single cylinder) pretty soon. 85mpg, and a real attention getter!
    Crude price, 3/9/11 — $105.10 per barrel.
    Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  323. lbendet March 8, 2011 at 7:45 am #

    –Morning
    My point about Cass Sunstein that I posted last week was simply that both sides are doing the fact control, is all. What constitutes reality? what we read on Wikipedia?
    __________________________
    TO BOMB OR NOT TO BOMB (that is the big question)
    Last night on CNN and MSNBC–the question being asked to all the talking heads is do we intervene and save lives in Libya.
    Yes, even John Kerry, is weighing in on the side of military action. Establish a no-fly zone by bombing the air fields. Of course we know nothing’s ever as simple as it sounds. And we’ve already spent over a $Trillion on our other 3 fronts, Afgh, Pak, and Iraq.
    Oh, let’s see now, we have no money for ss, medicare and medicaid, there are more homeless children (something like 14 million) in the US, but let’s do more war for the private contractors—there’s always more money for that.
    As I was listening to the “dialogue”, I thought to myself, War is like a roach motel, once you go in you can’t get out!

  324. oneofall March 8, 2011 at 7:48 am #

    JulettaofOhio, the key to having as much contentment as you can is to rise above the attitude of me/us against you/them. Otherwise, pain and hardship will lack your resistance to getting traded around and you can’t reach the fullness of your humanity.

  325. hillwalker March 8, 2011 at 8:17 am #

    I’m a bit late to this argument,
    But I’d like to disabuse some folks from their held belief that it was Carter’s energy policies that cost him the election.
    Not so. The clerics in Iran were the ones who basically called the 1980 election.
    The Iran revolution could have picked Carter by releasing the hostages. yes, it really is just that simple.
    Carter actually had some pretty decent popular support for his domestic policies, including his energy policy. True, the right-wing faithful hated it and all it stood for, in complete fairness, the Carter whitehouse was in fact playing footsie with all the big bad energy companies. This is extremely well documented in Ray Reese’s 1979 (before the election) book ‘The Sun Betrayed, A Report on the Corporate Seizure of U.S. Solar Energy Development’.
    Carter had done a masterful job of accommodating the energy industry and calling for energy austerity at the same time. It was his foreign policies that got him in hot water. Had the chickens not come home to roost at that time, we would have had another 4 years of Carter, and who knows what today would have looked like.

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  326. SNAFU March 8, 2011 at 8:25 am #

    Hey Progessor,
    Per our agreement to disagree how about this video as a place to start.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFsmmMTMCHU
    Let me know your observations and feelings after you have viewed it.
    SNAFU

  327. ccm989 March 8, 2011 at 9:48 am #

    Just a suggestion — since we are definitely being hit with super high gas prices and our howls of protest will be ignored anyway, why not adapt to the situation? Turn off your SUV and get a moped. Mopeds get about 100 to 120 miles per galleon. Obviously this won’t work if you need to drive a bunch of children to “soccer” practice or want to pick up furniture, but it would work if you were just driving locally.
    In Bermuda, everyone drives mopeds. Its less expensive than a car and creates less pollution too. Please note these little machines are dangerous though. Hit some gravel and you might lose control and smash up. In Bermuda, honeymooners who drove around on mopeds sometimes would get killed. The police called them “Brides in a Box”. Gets you where you want to go faster than a regular bike.

  328. Qshtik March 8, 2011 at 10:21 am #

    Probably the next time they will use a woman – and the media will make a big deal about that and you all will go limp, convusle, drool, and wet yourselves in ecstasy.
    ===========
    Vlad, your imagery gets better every day.
    P.S. It’s convulse

  329. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 10:23 am #

    See, that’s the thing. If you had a real democracy, one person wouldn’t be able to undo it.
    We in the US “elect” puppets every four years, who do the bidding of the 1%, and we call it “democracy”.
    It isn’t. We have no control over our lives, they enact policies that 90% of the people oppose, they flout the laws of the land, while locking up millions of us, the entire thing is an oligarchy.
    But the illusion persists, and most people will tell you that we live in a democracy and that we have freedom, because they choose to believe the propaganda instead of their own lying eyes.

  330. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 10:30 am #

    I don’t think that left wing think tanks have the money, prog.
    Besides, they still believe in Enlightment values and spend their time putting out reasoned, fact-filled rebuttals to right wing lies.
    I would think that this is too small, but did you ever see “Farenheit 911”, and the tiny peace group eating cookies that were infiltrated by a cop?
    Really? They were such a threat?
    Anyway, I think that tootsie is just a deranged individual who likes to come here and hang with the intelligent people.
    I try to hold on to my sympathy for him, because I believe in the blank slate theory (not totally), and I think that he was seriously abused by his mommy, and he is lashing out at everyone else from some deep pain.
    I had more in mind the ones that drop in on Monday and spew a little bullshit around, and then leave.

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  331. mow March 8, 2011 at 10:30 am #

    ” There will be no war in Africa ”
    – Charles Foster Kane

  332. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 10:38 am #

    Yes, I remember that.
    I found it rather interesting that Clinton could speak so openly about funding government propaganda.
    It makes you wonder if the Sunstein thing was a trial balloon, to see how much opposition would be raised.

  333. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 10:42 am #

    Oh, and I made a joke earlier about US corporate media being trivial (Clinton WAS right about that), and asking about Charlie Sheen.
    My husband signed online last night and the top story was that Sheen had been fired.
    Hmmm.
    I don’t think that his support for 9-11 truth is insignificant. I think that it’s intolerable.
    I don’t know about the porn stars raising his kids. Is that the charge?
    But if they start telling the rich not to sleep around or take drugs in order to keep their kids, there’ll be a lot of rich kids in foster care.

  334. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 10:44 am #

    Interesting.
    So what was the info?
    And why wouldn’t they let you change it?
    I thought that wikipedia was open, and that’s why the right wing could fund propagandists.

  335. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 10:51 am #

    I didn’t really think of you, prog.
    Someone on here some months ago direly warned us that no one was as they seemed. (Cue the scary music).
    I disregarded that. I prefer not to live in suspicion.
    I know that I’m exactly who I say I am. I believe that you are too. I believe in Tripp, and lbendent and Cash SFmom and jackie and ripped and even marlin.
    And most everyone else.
    I even think that asoka is who he says he is, multitudes.

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  336. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 11:04 am #

    A lot of track is still around, usused but there.
    It didn’t all get turned into trails.
    My son lived in Chicago for awhile, and you could see the tracks in the street.
    As the asphalt crumbles, the tracks will remain.

  337. Cabra1080 March 8, 2011 at 11:08 am #

    As I have said in previous posts, the Interstate highway right-of-ways could be re-purposed as really nice rail beds for a new generation of medium speed electric railways! The government won’t have the resources to continue to maintain this soon-to-be-fossilized Eisenhower Interstate Highway System based on infinite oil supplies to run the cars, trucks and provide the trillions of square feet of asphalt that has to be applied regularly. Hey, have you seen all the new potholes recently? Hummm.
    The private rail companies can continue with their frieght lines while the government implements medium speed electric passenger transport to replace the obsolete interstate highway system.
    So while there is still some semblance of a modern industrial complex capable of manufacturing the rails, engines and other components I would think the thing to consider is replace at least some of the lanes of the interstate with rail beds and get a national electric rail system going, running in part on “renewable” energy sources. Just a thought!!!!!

  338. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 11:09 am #

    You’re right, Forcemultiplier.
    Children of the rich do frequently rise to the top.
    Look at George W.
    In a rational society, anyone that stupid would never have made anything of himself.
    But he was given 3 corporations, which he ran into bankruptcy.
    And then a whole country.

  339. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 11:12 am #

    Immigration absolutely benefits the ruling class, K.
    That’s why the corporate media supports it.
    That’s why Reagan legalized so many immigrants.
    And it’s not just cheap labor. They allow every right wing dictator who is overthrown to move to Miami. And they let in all the people who take up arms against their own people in the service of US capital.
    http://wagelaborer.blogspot.com/2007/12/effect-of-post-war-immigration-on.html

  340. ozone March 8, 2011 at 11:16 am #

    “The inability to confront simple truths about human nature and the natural world leaves the elites unable to articulate new social, economic and political paradigms. They look only for ways to perpetuate a dying system. Thomas Friedman and the array of other propagandists for globalization make as much sense as Charlie Sheen.” -Chris Hedges
    Po’ Charlie! (Well, Chris is a bit Puritanical, even if he’s deadly accurate about our current situations.)
    It’s important to see the purveyors of “conventional wisdom” (such as George Will, T. Friedman, Kraphammer, Beck, etc.) for what they really are, and what business they’re really in. Namely, narcissistic chasers of unearned adoration, who are in a constant state of pander, attempting to be “relevant” above all else. Finger to a wind that brings the scent of money; easy money; money that dolts gladly part with to hear their dearly-held false narratives reflected back upon them.
    Magnification (and codification) of ignorance and stupidity is inherently dangerous.
    The status quo IS the furtherance of ignorance and stupidity; how do YOU want to play the current hand? Even into the short-term future; your life is about to depend on it. The elites have done a splendid job of divide and conquer, promulgation of class warfare [that somehow misses a certain class], and the spreading of purposefully malignant lies in the service of profit.
    The Earth has become Easter Island, which side are you on? A sustainable [radically different] paradigm, or a suicidal cornucopian continuum?
    If it doesn’t look all that dire to you, better look again. (Hell, just look at the weather.) Things will never change [enough] by making compromises with the elite. This is the present road of the “moderates”, who tend to be shit-scared conservatives and firmly entrenched Right Wingers. This is their definition; this is their paradigm; this is their doom. I do not intend to meekly be ground beneath the heel of abject dumbfuckery and the vicious, seamless mediocrity of fascism. Propaganda and information overload will not lull me back to the slumber of the over-stuffed. Go ahead, throw your money and your happy-talk bloviation and your finger-pointing hate-speak around. It’s now all part and parcel of the gargantuan waste that is this pretend “culture”. I ain’t buyin’.

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  341. Cabra1080 March 8, 2011 at 11:17 am #

    One more thing, I say “medium speed” rail because the time has long passed to implement high speed rail which is super expensive for a country this size. With the huge deficits and considering the high cost to build rail routes and infrastructure from scratch I think repurposing some lanes of the Interstate System may be the only viable option. Or else, just keep keeping on until it is no longer possible to do even this and be stuck in a 13th century funk…
    Windmills, hydro and solar panels along the electric rail line would augment the power requirements which are modest compared to running a huge fleet of trucks and cars. Passenger trains could hum along at 70 or 80 MPH, about the speed cars go now. We could retain at least some of our mobility as the oil and coal age winds down. Again, just a thought.

  342. ozone March 8, 2011 at 11:20 am #

    Pardon, that should read: “conventional wisdom[S]”, as there are many stripes of the basic bullshittery (tm MyrtleMay).

  343. observer March 8, 2011 at 11:28 am #

    I watched the movie “Crude” recently, and would recommend it to anyone who still drives. The real price of gas is not what we pay at the pump.
    Also, don’t miss Michael Moore’s great speech in Madison, Wisconsin, HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgNuSEZ8CDwE:

  344. ozone March 8, 2011 at 11:35 am #

    Good idea!
    It’s mighty late (in resource terms), so somebody better goose the process RIGHT NOW! (As in: yesterday.)

  345. lbendet March 8, 2011 at 11:41 am #

    Wage,
    What’s so infuriating is the double standards on both sides of the aisle. If a Republican does it, the left raises an issue, but when a Democrat does it, they say nothing.
    That’s why the Neoliberal Clinton was the one to do away with Glass Stegall and the one way trade with China. He also did “welfare reform”.
    The Neoliberal Kissinger had Nixon break down the barrier with China in the ’70’s for the free trade.
    The big issue is that the lobbyists for the transnationals want the unfair trade imbalance because that gives them the greatest differential. Of course, no jobs are being created here, but nobody wants to address that honestly because the system is rigged by both parties under this Milton Friedman model they all endorse.
    The Republicans want to do away with the EPA and taxes because they don’t want anything getting in the way of the top .5%. They pretend they are stimulating business when in fact it’s working to the opposite effect.
    The Democrats want you to get more degrees from college to an environment where there are no jobs to get.
    Tied into your next comment about the media, of course they want to talk about Sheen, the royal wedding and how great the stock market is. That way everything seems normal and we can all feel better.
    Question I have is at what point do these people become victims of their own greed (ie cancer etc.)

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  346. ozone March 8, 2011 at 12:00 pm #

    ” There will be no war in Africa ”
    – Charles Foster Kane
    Unless it be of the internecine variety. ;o)
    -“Ro-zzz-buuuuud”

  347. MarlinFive54 March 8, 2011 at 12:13 pm #

    Wagelabor;
    Nah, I’ve never intentionally misrepresented myself here. For me that would be counterproductive as I hope to meet up with some of these smart people in person later on in the year. The only thing, my little farm (El Toro Farms. My wife is a Spaniard) is really only a dilletante operation, about an acre. I don’t even have a tractor. I thank Jim’s books for getting me into this about 5 years ago. I do everything by hand. I’m still learning.
    Also, I’ve found myself in some political disagreements here, which I regret. The truth is I could give a shit less about politics and consider it a waste of time.
    Ripthunder;
    You say, “M1A, best gun ever made.”
    That’s an interesting assertion, Ripthunder, and one hard to dispute.
    George Patton said the same thing.
    Myself, I’m partial to lever action rifles.
    Take the Winchester 1894, .30-.30 … time tested, hard hitting, light weight, accurate out to 150 yards, trim, great looks with that perfect fusion between form and function, historic … 10 million made between 1894-2006, one of the most successful and longest lasting products in history.
    Fun to shoot. And because its been around so long it doesn’t freak out law enforcement types, like, say, AK’s and AR’s do.
    What’s not to like?
    Next month bring your M1A down here. We’ll go to Blue Trail and have a shoot off, like Jimmy Stewart and Dan Duyrea in ‘Winchester 1873’, one of the best movies ever made.
    M1A against a Winchester 1894 at the 100 yard range. (which is all they have there beside the 50 and 25 yard ranges)
    One more thing, Ripthunder. Do you know anything about those 200,000 silver and gold coins, a British army payroll, that was lost somewhere along (current) rte. 10 in N. Granby, CT in 1780? Is it just a legend, or is there something to it? I want to search for that sonofabitch when the snow melts.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  348. ront March 8, 2011 at 12:30 pm #

    “TV free America… The Environmental Movement of the Mind”
    I am all for the EMM, but achieving it through the elimination of a machine seems weak and not lasting. How about through discernment and not taking our ego-centered outlooks so seriously, whether while watching TV, reading, or in conversation. Or while choosing to change the program, periodical, book, etc.
    Talk about “changing the program,” isn’t that really the chore at hand?

  349. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 12:31 pm #

    The clerics in Iran made a deal with William Casey, head of Reagan’s campaign team, to keep the hostages until after the election.
    Casey was rewarded by being made the head of the CIA, but unfortunately had a “stroke” and surgery the day before he was to testify in front of Congress about what he knew about the Iran-Contra deals, which, sadly, made him incapable of speech.
    Oliver North, the criminal who ran the drugs for guns ring, was rewarded with deals to spew his crap on right wing radio.
    The hostages wouldn’t have made any more difference to the election than any of the hostages in the following years (do you know about the 2 young people being held for over a year now in Iran?), if if hadn’t been for the corporate media, and its “It’s Day 180 of the Iran Hostage Crisis”, day after day.
    It’s takes a right wing village to raise American bloodlust.

  350. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 12:34 pm #

    Ha, ha. I’m watching Free Speech TV as I sit here, and there is some Arab Muslim woman on, explaining that Allah wants her to be divorced, cause that’s what makes her happy.
    Last week I pointed out that Christians are quite convinced that God wants them to do pretty much exactly what they themselves want to do.
    I find it pretty funny that Muslims do the same thing.

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  351. k-dog March 8, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    Saudi Arabia bans protest rallies
    It’s old news now and was reported in the UK’s Independent by Alexandra here yesterday. The Status Quo has little to worry about, the protests were small and the Saudi Government is responding with overwhelming force.
    The interesting thing is when I do a Google search (in Google chrome watching as the Wikipedia entries quickly blink out with delight) not a single domestic reference to the Saudi troubles pops up.
    Rupert Murdock must have put out a memo, he does that you know. I wish we could see one.
    Land of the free home of the brave.
    NOT

  352. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 12:42 pm #

    Damn right. Now I’m watching Amy Goodman report that Obama signed an executive order to indefinitely detain prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, and resume the military trials.
    This is the same guy who took advantage of the anger at Bush’s destruction of habeas corpus (those who noticed, that is) to campaign on a “close Guantanamo” platform.
    I’ll scream, you’ll scream, Glen Greenwald will scream, but most Democrats won’t.
    I have talked to Democrats who TO THIS DAY, want to give Obama a pass, a chance, maybe another term, then he’ll finally do the right thing.
    Bwwww

  353. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 12:49 pm #

    I guess Chris Hedges takes one for the team, also, and watches Fox.
    No wonder he always sounds so depressed!
    But when Chris Hedges joins in the pile-up, isn’t it obvious that there was a full-court press on to get Charlie Sheen?
    Come on!

  354. k-dog March 8, 2011 at 12:54 pm #

    Wage,
    I’m pondering the difference between christian prayer and children writing letters to Santa Clause myself now. I’ll let you know when I figure out what the difference is, both seem quite self centered.
    You might enjoy ‘Letters from the Earth’ by Mark Twain. I’m halfway through it now. As JHK said:
    History never repeats itself but it rhymes.
    And it’s rhymin like church bells on a Sunday morning right now.

  355. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    Did you know that today is the hundredth anniversary of International Women’s Day?
    And that it was proposed by the Socialist Party of America?

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  356. Cash March 8, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    Lettuce does the same thing up here. In winter the price shoots up to 3 bucks a head and then plummets in the spring/summer to around a buck.
    The McD thing is perplexing. We have the same phenom up here. People take their kids there to eat dinner two or three times a week and wonder why their twelve year old weighs 250 lbs and why
    they go through puberty at the age of 8.
    They say it’s convenient. Maybe. But when you tally up the time you spend going to and from and waiting in line I’m not sure it’s a time saver.
    Do you watch the food channel? They had a bunch of shows where they had that chef Jamie Oliver going to school kitchens in the UK and the US and trying to get them to stop feeding the kids crap and trying to get them to feed them decent grub. Really really hard to do. The school staff didn’t want to listen. Testa dura as the Italians say. The kids are the size of small farm animals. The parents the size of small houses. But people get into a dietary rut and they don’t want to change.

  357. Cash March 8, 2011 at 1:06 pm #

    Thanks Wage. I never doubted you for a second either.

  358. k-dog March 8, 2011 at 1:07 pm #

    Yes Guantanamo,
    The lame excuse that’s been put out is that the poor boy can’t figure out how to fly the detainees to the mainland because he signed a bill from congress that specifically forbids him from spending money for that purpose.
    Apparently being the commander in chief of the armed forces is a strictly ceremonial title conferring no actual power or he could simply issue orders that it be done. No need to spend money on plane tickets then.
    I must have skipped my high school civics class the day they explained executive power because I sure got it wrong.
    Might we all at CFN chip in and charter a flight to fly the detainees here so they could get due process? I’m thinking Virgin Atlantic Airways would be an appropriate choice.

  359. neckflames March 8, 2011 at 1:12 pm #

    The military action in Libya should be called Operation Invade Libya (OIL). When US invaded Iraq it was initially called Operation Iraqi Liberation until they realized the acronym would not be helpful propaganda. It was changed to Operation Iraqi Freedom.
    Neckflames

  360. k-dog March 8, 2011 at 1:15 pm #

    how about Operation Independent Libya.

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  361. progressorconserve March 8, 2011 at 1:18 pm #

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inQiIkz7J5Y
    “Ayatollah” to the tune of “My Sharona” by the Knack.
    Everybody ought to take a listen back to a happier, more united, and more honest day in American history.
    ===============
    Wage, I bailed out on Obama over the passage of the insurance company bill forever to be known as “Obamacare.” I wish he’d decline to run in ’12.
    But where am I supposed to go after bailing out?
    Can’t get a green on the ballot in GA, even.
    ================
    Also, Wage, do you get notifications when someone posts to your blog comment section? And that’s a nice entry you did concerning the RW politics of many immigrant groups.
    =================
    Marlin – sorry you don’t like politics, man. To me it should the the essence of purposeful action for a better society.
    I mean, really, what else is there for that purpose???
    Plus it’s a lot more generally enjoyable to joust over politics than over weapon types. I like ’em all, when employed properly
    – that’s weapons – not politics.

  362. Cash March 8, 2011 at 1:19 pm #

    You can say what you like about Harper. About his “fundamentalism” though, you’re right, he is Christian but I think he’s more on the evangelical side than fundamentalist. Either way though I don’t think it counts for beans in how he governs. Other people say that he’s a libertarian and that squares with how I see him.
    Hypocritical absolutely. Destroyng our democracy for sure. But IMO what we see now is a continuation of what came before. The iron clad party discipline is nothing new. If anything Chretien was just as bad and Mulroney too.
    I want parliamentarians to be that: parliamentarians and not potted plants. I want them to speak freely and vote the way they see things not because the party leader wields a whip and will boot them from caucus.
    What really freaked me out was how the sale of Potash Corp nearly got approved if not for Brad Wall raising hell. Should never have come down to the eleventh hour. We’ll see how they do with the sale of TMX to the London Stock Exchange.

  363. neckflames March 8, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

    Even better, k-dog!

  364. asoka March 8, 2011 at 1:23 pm #

    Wage, many on CFN have said, “Follow the money”
    When you compare Christianity and Islam, women come out much better in Islam with regard to money and inheritance. For the first 1800 years of Christianity women were basically denied the right to inherit property.
    Islam was a reform movement which gave women greater rights in marriage, divorce and inheritance. For example, in 622 the Constitution of Medina gave Muslim women inheritance rights. From the Quran:

    From what is left by parents, and those nearest related, there is a share for men and a share for women, whether the property be small or large — a determinate share. (4:7)

    .
    Muslim mothers, wives, daughters, and sisters received inheritance rights (thanks to Prophet Muhammad!) twelve hundred years before Europe (Sweden in 1845)and America (New York in 1848 with the Married Women’s Property Act) recognized that these rights even existed for women..
    THE EVOLUTION OF WOMEN’S RIGHTS IN INHERITANCE
    http://works.bepress.com/kristine_knaplund/2/
    I am now, and have always been, against any kind of violence or discrimination against women, whether it be in Christian, Judaic, or Islamic societies.

  365. asoka March 8, 2011 at 1:36 pm #

    Happy International Women’s Day!
    I celebrated it every year, when I lived outside the USA. I did not realize it started here. I thought it originated with Russian women.

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  366. asoka March 8, 2011 at 1:38 pm #

    Three more days until TSHTF in Saudi Arabia with the DAY OF RAGE and, as JHK says, Saudi Arabia “starts to blow up”

  367. rippedthunder March 8, 2011 at 2:10 pm #

    Hey Marlin, I am partial to the M1A, also known as the M-14, General Patton was talkin’ about the M-1 Garand, “the greatest battle implement ever devised” designed and manufactured right up the road a stretch in Springfield. They have a great museum there if you have never been. They made some of the greatest rifles ever designed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Armory.
    I just drove back from Avon on 10/202 and the Farmington is flooding like crazy, most of the roads east off of 10 were closed. I still have over a foot of snow in the yard. I just talked to a tenant of mine who was in Vermont. They got hammered this last storm. The CT. river is gonna really go crazy if we get a huge melt. As far as the garden goes, I don’t know, I might start some peppers and tomatoes soon.

  368. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 2:11 pm #

    We started May Day as Labor Day, also.
    Then the rest of the world followed suit, and our ruling class changed it to September.

  369. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    Oh, I knew that, but forgot. Sorry.
    Still, though, to directly conflate your own desires with God’s will for you.
    That is still kind of funny, I think.

  370. k-dog March 8, 2011 at 2:21 pm #

    I hope King Abdullah’s 86 year old ass makes it through the week. Can you imagine him kicking it on the DAY OF RAGE. That alone could give us five bucks a gallon.
    Happy International Women’s Day!

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  371. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 2:26 pm #

    Also, Obama opened off-shore drilling that had been banned since George H.W.
    And he increased the number of Predator drone attacks killing people in Pakistan, and drove 2,000,000 civilians from their homes.
    And, he started funding death squads in Indonesia, which had been banned for 12 years (all the way through George W).
    That one baffled me, because I still believed that part of the Obama myth.
    If he lived in Indonesia during the time when 500,000 Indonesians were murdered, wouldn’t he be against sending them money?
    Duh. What was I thinking?
    What exactly WAS he doing in Indonesia during that time. Well, he was a child, in a school. A school where the Indonesian ruling class sent their kids. So he was hanging with the beneficiaries of the murders. What were his mom and step-dad doing?
    According to Wayne Madsen, his step-dad, who had been attending a kind of School of the Americas in Hawaii, was sent back to Indonesia to help out in the purges.
    And his mom worked for the Ford Foundation.
    We’ve been punked.

  372. Bustin J March 8, 2011 at 2:27 pm #

    insnuffler said, “…Sheen has become the poster boy for what our country is today. Cocky, intoxicated, stupid, self centered, rich (and spending every last penny) unemployed, and completely disconnected from the world as it goes down in flames…”
    I think you haven’t done your homework: Sheen does not represent middle America, but is its polar opposite. The man has a successful career, a cherished children, and two porn stars to take care of them. He is taking on the ancient rites of polygamy and publicly disavowing marriage. What middle America pursues is the opposite. Single-parent households and prudish, sexless prediabetic alcoholics. Number one trait: telling everyone else what moral standards to live by. If this country were filled with Charlie Sheens, we would have been rioting in the street and stringing bankers up by their necks on lightpoles. We would be making positive changes to increase the peace instead of tearing at each others’ flesh like a bunch of weasels.
    “I think people should view his public fiasco as all of us, in one person. You can point directly to that visual image and say, “this is why we are in the mess we are today”.”
    That is exactly the kind of convenient, middle America scapegoating that reigns today. Find the convenient whipping boy, and characterize him as the problem. Tsk, tsk.
    “Its useless to change things now, because just as Sheen seem unable to see his plight,and do something about it to save himself and his family, we as a nation, are unable to rescue ourselves from our way of life and selfish ineptitute. ”
    Sheen becomes a giant straw man to take on Middle America’s bullshit: Sheen’s “plight” would certainly be a surprise to him.
    I would venture to offer that America’s inability to rescue itself has a lot to do with the fact that it invested itself in a bullshit system. Whats that quote: “Its hard to get someone to acknowledge something if his paycheck depends on him not acknowledging it.”
    Well, middle America takes that paycheck every two weeks. Every time you accept the price of using gas and fill that tank you are voting with your actions. The system is well constructed to produce this cycle. They beat you over the head with “Work hard-play hard”. They discourage independent thought. And then they invite you judge people’s lifestyles on TV lest your ego become too threadbare from the daily grind, let alone your intellect be confounded by the realpolitik.

  373. old6699 March 8, 2011 at 2:31 pm #

    Hey, f*kwed, f*ktard, dipsht, moron, there are 10 million of the richest families worldwide that have more than 100 trillion dollars stashed away in banks, hedges, you name it, and 100 million poor slob workers worldwide that are unemployed, underemployed, paid slave wage salaries, you name it. So guess what ? since the name of the game is FIGHT, STICK EM, STICK EM, FIGHT (as the capitalist, free market ideology loves to emphasize so much) those 100 million slobs are going to kick the asses of those 10 million families, get back all the money that has been and is continually being robbed, outright robbed from these poor slobs by keeping them idle, by crushing them with unemployment, by sticking it to them in all ways, and has been for decades, because they are not “competitive” or have the right “skill set”, and taking away their health kare (in the US at least). Money doesn’t even exist and so can’t run out since it is simply a social relationship, don’t believe in the debts myth, the future entitlements myth, etc. there will always be everything available to everyone if the right wing slobs and friends don’t hog it all up as usual. Now, blow me.
    I will never stop to repeat:
    1) The present day Technological Economy no longer needs much real productive labor, it has been automated, optimized, you name it. This has been done intentionally to keep out of work and a salary as many people as possible worldwide (and notice I say worldwide, because even if there is some city in Germany that has full employment, it is because there are 100 cities in the US, Brazil, India or wherever(Libya) that have no employment, get it ?) and hog up as much profit as possible. In essence a huge worldwide theft of the grandest and deepest degree ever.
    2) For this reason, we need a free basic salary worldwide, and free basic health care, and cheap rents. The economic system is so rich that it could easily give these basic unalienable rights, human rights in the most real and fullest sense ever, to everyone.
    3) There is no resource scarcity, these are right wing myths, we can do everything with all kinds of technologies, social organizations, you name it. We also have a huge potential labor pool that is being kept idle,just hobby factories where people could come in and do a 1 or 2 or 3 hour shift building rockets, trains, BUSES, skyscrapers, you name it would produce even more wealth beyond anyone’s wildest dreams.

  374. Bustin J March 8, 2011 at 2:32 pm #

    My spiritual Father compares himself to an F-18:

    I’m sorry, man, but I’ve got magic. I’ve got poetry in my fingertips. Most of the time – and this includes naps – I’m an F-18, bro. And I will destroy you in the air. I will deploy my ordinance to the ground. Charlie Sheen

  375. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 2:33 pm #

    OK, I meant to include a link with my comment about Obama getting away with funding Indonesian death squads.
    Must be nostalgia for the days when he was a little boy, living in luxury, surrounded by death.
    http://revolutionaryfrontlines.wordpress.com/2010/11/10/democracy-now-us-ties-to-special-death-squads-in-indonesia/

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  376. k-dog March 8, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

    I liked that one Bustin.

  377. Cash March 8, 2011 at 2:48 pm #

    Wage, based on things I’ve read (can’t remember sources, gettin’ old, what can I say) the judeo christian tradition had a big influence on our legal and social traditions. But I understand what you’re saying about British Common Law, that a long time passed before the Brits were christianized.
    What’s being forgotten here is the average joe that did the fighting and suffering. So when I bemoan the fact that history is being forgotten, what we’re forgetting is the average guy who never knew where he was going or why. Audie Murphy and Aubrey Cosens were just average boys.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_Cosens
    The military industrial complex is as evil and corrosive as you say. But Canada was formed (in other peoples’ opinions and mine too) on the battlefield ie especially Vimy Ridge in 1917. Before that time Canucks saw themselves as Brits and were treated as Brits by the Brits themselves.
    But at Vimy the Canuck Army fought together as a unit for the first time and managed to accomplish what the Brit and French armies had pissed away torrents of lives attempting and failing to do. And after Vimy Canucks saw themselves as Canucks. Hell of a way to form a country in people’s minds but that’s human nature.
    If you forget or ignore history, you repeat history. What we’ve done in Canada is to deliberately suppress our history. Why? Because it suited malicious ideological agendas, because Quebec was dead against participating either in WW1 or WW2. IMO, tragic and stupid and gutless on the part of English Canada who somehow lost their balls in facing French Quebec. I’m paraphrasing someone but Canada is now a country that dares not speak its name.
    Vimy Ridge hasn’t been forgotten by everyone (a short vid of someone’s visit to the Vimy memorial in France)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDJMIWHh00g
    One other thing, let’s not forget that our (US/Brit/Canuck) military industrial complex didn’t control the Nazis (or the German military industrial complex) nor what Stalin was up to, nor the Japanese. They weren’t taking orders from American or Brit industrialists or New York bankers. They had their own agendas.
    For a lot of Americans (I’m not pointing the finger at you) it comes as a really hard thing to swallow but other countries had/have their own elites with their own agendas, bases of political support, resources, sources of financing. European powers are much older than the US and were active in the world while the USA was just a small collection of dirt bag farms near the east coast. European powers didn’t go to war because they were told to by Americans.

  378. progressorconserve March 8, 2011 at 2:49 pm #

    the difference between christian prayer and children writing letters to Santa Clause”
    -kdog-
    I thought I’d tell you the difference was that Santa had a website: http://santaclaus.com/
    But then I discovered god (God?) also had a website:
    http://www.god.com/ (notice the cross, apparently God is an evangelical Christian, according to the owners of His (his?) website.)
    -laugh, you all-
    And, SNAFU – I’ll get back to you on that this evening, hopefully. Cool video, BTW, did you watch the whole thing?
    Great background music, also:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0eXvwmxPds
    “This Is Just a Simulation”
    -jd madson-

  379. Bustin J March 8, 2011 at 2:51 pm #

    ARM said, ” Most local politicians and journalists that I’m aware of are opposed to restoring rail service; in the words of Ryan Burns at the North Coast Journal, it’s “so Nineteenth Century.” ”
    You bet it is. The nineteenth century, except without the stink and dysentery.
    Me? I’m going backward in time. Ditched my car, haven’t drove in years now. Spurned facebook, refused to upgrade with new computers.
    Stole internet at home until the connection evaporated. No MP3 player for me, I love the RADIO.
    Critical thing: ditching the Cellphone: frees up an additional $600/yr., now I am completely decoupled from “decent” society.
    Vernon is right: burning natural gas to generate electricity is a waste. Next step back to the 19th century: gaslight.
    All this walking, biking, bus-and-train riding has made me realize that personal vehicles are just bigger versions of the ol’ powered wheelchair. “Assisted mobility devices”.

  380. Cavepainter March 8, 2011 at 2:53 pm #

    “The butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker”, this familiar nursery-rhyme phrase still (yes, even in this so called “technologically advanced age”) expresses the reality of life for most Americans in doing the day-to-day commerce of transacting household business and needs. That’s right, the simple fact is that the vast majority of really necessary work in societies comprises crafts, trades and various service sector occupations, not those of a “high tech” nature. No escaping it; even if everyone had a PhD in an academic specialty over 60% of work necessary for the maintenance of society would remain of the same order and character as what was occupationally practiced a hundred years ago. The percentage of slaves to owners or that of serfs to lordships is good illustration of how irrevocably dependent upon such “labor” societies are and by proportionate ratio. A more poignant illustration is in noting how America’s middle class draws closer to a condition of enslavement or serfdom under roll-back by the owners and corporations of the unionization gains of early 20th century America.
    The refrain of entrepreneurial adventurism and technological innovation as the preeminent drivers of societal health is a deceit for justifying a latter day order of oligarchic overlords. As with lordships of the past the single value of “underling” is measured exclusively in terms of economic contribution to the lord’s wealth. Those of us who’ve actually spent time in the work-a-day world of hourly wages or monthly salary (remember, that’s most of us) know that economics is the least of our contribution to the overall health and wellbeing of society. “Citizen” says it all, whereas statement of profession or occupation is only parcel — and in most cases the least parcel.
    Its sadly funny how Americans have allowed themselves to be so philosophically distanced from the mindset of the unionization movements and social redemption movement of the last century. Americans today bring to mind the “shift change” sequence from the Fritz Lang movie of 1927, Metropolis. Even current pop music has similar mechanical sound of the sound trac.

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  381. lbendet March 8, 2011 at 2:56 pm #

    wagelaborer:” We’ve been punked.”
    Don’t know much about Obama’s past although of course there’s lots of conspiracy theories that he was working in intelligence etc.
    I would say, whoever is allowed to get to the point of winning an election is going to “Serve at the pleasure of the founding families” as David Mamet would say.

  382. asoka March 8, 2011 at 2:58 pm #

    Wage said: “And his mom worked for the Ford Foundation. We’ve been punked.”
    ============
    Wage, don’t you be dissin’ Obama’s mama on International Women’s Day … LOL!
    Let’s celebrate Ann Dunham, who did get a PhD in anthropology and was interested in craftsmanship, weaving and the role of women in cottage industries.
    Dunham did her research on things like women’s work on the island of Java and blacksmithing in Indonesia.
    Dunham may have “worked for” Ford Foundation, but she was all about addressing the problem of poverty in rural villages. She, Obama’s mama, created microcredit programs while working as a consultant for USAID and she consulted with the Asian Development Bank in Pakistan. Towards the latter part of her life, she worked with Bank Rakyat Indonesia, where she helped apply her research to the largest microfinance program in the world.
    Wage, I’d say Ford Foundation and USAID got punked by Ann Dunham! And women of the world are better for it.
    Happy International Women’s Day!

  383. Qshtik March 8, 2011 at 3:03 pm #

    I don’t think that his support for 9-11 truth is insignificant.
    ==============
    Wage, here’s the thing about certain people on this blog, but especially you.
    Despite your (and my) atheism, if God came forth out of the heavens and said in unmistakable terms heard and understood by every living being that “9/11 was perpetrated by 19 over-the-top Muslim fundamentalists, NOT the US government” I believe you would be terribly disappointed. Your raison d’etre would be destroyed. You are married to the idea that there are innumerable terrible powerful forces from among your own people who are arrayed against you.

  384. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 3:05 pm #

    Thanks, prog.
    Yes, I get notified by email about comments.
    I don’t think that electoral politics are going to change this country.
    It doesn’t matter who you vote for, they’re both crooks.
    And the voting machines are fixed, anyway.
    It’s all a farce, a Potemkin village, a steering wheel in the back carseat.
    All of it set up to make you feel that you make a difference.
    Ha!

  385. God March 8, 2011 at 3:13 pm #

    That’s not my website.
    And Charlie Sheen is okay by me.

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  386. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 3:15 pm #

    Hey, God.
    Do you have a blog?
    And who planted the explosives in the towers?

  387. Cash March 8, 2011 at 3:17 pm #

    Hope you don’t mind if I butt in on this.
    Imagine yourself as an impoverished tenant farmer with a wife and kids and your smallest is malnourished and extremely sick and there’s no money for a doctor or food and you face the prospect of watching the little fella die. And then he dies.
    Here’s another mind experiment: imagine that you’re a tenant farmer and there’s two foreign armies duking it out on your turf and one of them just stole your livestock and your entire food supply. Now also imagine that you’ve just been evicted by some soldiers from your farmhouse and there’s shells dropping everywhere and bullets galore. So you dig a trench and reinforce it with some planks and you and your family huddle in that trench literally shitting your pants in terror. So if you don’t get blown to shit by artillery or bullets you have a pretty good chance of starving to death.
    So is praying like writing letters to Santa Claus?
    BTW this was real life for my parents.

  388. Bustin J March 8, 2011 at 3:17 pm #

    Snarlin Marlin says, “Solzhenietsen addresses the role of the intellectual in times of trouble in his ‘Gulag’ books.”
    I’m an F-18, bro…

    If only it were so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?
    During the life of any heart this line keeps changing place; sometimes it is squeezed one way by exuberant evil and sometimes it shifts to allow enough space for good to flourish. One and the same human being is, at various ages, under various circumstances, a totally different human being. At times he is close to being a devil, at times to sainthood. But his name doesn’t change, and to that name we ascribe the whole lot, good and evil.
    Socrates taught us: Know thyself!
    Confronted by the pit into which we are about to toss those who have done us harm, we halt, stricken dumb: it is after all only because of the way things worked out that they were executioners and we weren’t.
    If Malyuta Skuratov had summoned us, we, too, probably would have done our work well! From good to evil is one quaver, says the proverb. And correspondingly, from evil to good.
    From the moment when our society was convulsed by the reminder of those illegalities and tortures, they began on all sides ot explain, to write, to protest: Good people were there too- meaning in the NKVD-MGB (KGB)!”

    Moral equivocation: It is a sort of offensive proposition. Applied universally it becomes problematic. Pol Pot slaughtered millions; how can we judge him when his soul is split between good and evil?
    If only he was born rich in New Jersey, he might be less evil. Likewise, Martin Luther King would have commanded mass slaughter in Cambodia had he only been born in Phomn Pen.
    Sure, buddy. Sohlzy is only well-known because Americans like a good soviet-oppressor gulag/prison yarn. I find his philosophy kind of retarded, at least in this passage.
    There were a lot of people getting loaded onto cattle cars in the last century that would have stood a better chance fighting back instead of identifying with their oppressors.

  389. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 3:25 pm #

    OK, Asoka, I don’t know much about Obama’s background. I am doing other stuff, and don’t have time to research.
    However, the Ford Foundation has frequently been used as a CIA front, as I’m sure you know. And I didn’t know about the Pakistan connection. That makes Obama’s attacks on Pakistani civilians just as bad as his attacks on Indonesians.
    And you are a frequent cheerleader for policies of Obama and the Ds.
    So I am disregarding your assertions that Ann Dunham was a good person, doing good work.

  390. edpell March 8, 2011 at 3:26 pm #

    “schools are being closed”
    Hey, three plus wars are expensive, 700 foreign bases are expensive, and 20 trillion dollars of transaction guarantees (so the stupid rich lose no money) are expensive.
    We have to sacrifice to kill for the rich and to make up for their stupidity.
    Or we could just ignore the rich, have peace and keep our money.

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  391. rippedthunder March 8, 2011 at 3:32 pm #

    hello Bustin, I really think you are stretchin’ it to compare MLK to Pol Pot, Old PP was a born killer. Just sayin’

  392. montsegur March 8, 2011 at 3:34 pm #

    Cash wrote: “What’s being forgotten here is the average joe that did the fighting and suffering.”
    ======================================
    The problem for many, Cash, is that they find themselves trying to square a circle when they compare the courageous behavior of an individual like Aubrey Cosens with the behavior of a group like Calley’s platoon at My Lai.
    Cheers

  393. God March 8, 2011 at 3:37 pm #

    That’s DEAR God, Wage.
    No blog as I’m too busy; as well words cannot convey my essence.
    Obviously jet fuel cannot pulverize a steel skyscraper into dust. I am amazed, and that’s really saying something, that people still believe that.
    Things are really heating up in the Middle East so I must run. Will discuss the explosives issue next time.
    AAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMM….

  394. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 3:40 pm #

    Well, see, Cash, you didn’t read my link. The US did too support the Nazis, before and after (and some of them, during) WWll.
    From my blog-
    “Remember that the propaganda is that the Nazis were “appeased” until they attacked Poland. This is not true. They were not appeased. They were supported by top industrialists and financiers in the US and England. Hitler was attacking the communists and that was alright with the top boys in America and England, including George Bush’s grandfather, Prescott, whose ties to a German bank continued well past the time that America entered WW11.
    The Nazis didn’t really lose the war. Hitler may have, but his anti-communist backers remained and were put back in power by the US. And now they have consolidated their power here in the US, and the descendants of those Nazi, Cuban, Vietnamese, and the smaller influx of various dictators, CIA collaborators and death squad members let into this country after WW11 are supporting them.”
    And I didn’t get your point about your peasant parents.
    Are you saying that God got them out of that pit? Because they prayed?

  395. SNAFU March 8, 2011 at 3:50 pm #

    Howdy Progressor, Per your inquiry: Yes; I laughed at your god site joke as well.
    SNAFU

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  396. Qshtik March 8, 2011 at 3:52 pm #

    OldEight,
    I notice the latest and greatest phrase in your repertoire is you name it. For example, this sentence from your latest post:

    more than 100 trillion dollars stashed away in banks, hedges, you name it, and 100 million poor slob workers worldwide that are unemployed, underemployed, paid slave wage salaries, you name it.

    It has surpassed Simple Buses and Trillions of Skyscrapers.
    What’s the story?

  397. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 3:53 pm #

    Thanks for the info, God.
    Hope Q is paying attention.

  398. montsegur March 8, 2011 at 3:57 pm #

    Wagelaborer stated: “Remember that the propaganda is that the Nazis were “appeased” until they attacked Poland. This is not true. They were not appeased.”
    ==========================
    Wagelaborer, your statements in this case are making some valid points but getting others wrong. Yes, some powerful individuals in the U.S. supported the rise of the Nazis in Germany. Your statement about there being no appeasement is too clever though; there was appeasement as the term is generally understood in relation to the international politics of the 1930s — the appeasement being the unwillingness of other European powers (the USSR included, by the way) to confront Hitler over the territorial enlargement of Germany, particularly at the expense of Czechoslovakia.
    One wonders how Hitler’s anti-communist credentials were seen after he and Stalin divided eastern Europe into spheres of influence.
    The Nazis most certainly lost the war. The big corporate operators in Germany may have picked up the pieces and kept making money after 1945, but if nothing else, the industries dedicated to destruction of selected groups of humanity that had been organized by Hitler’s Germany were out of business. It is important to recall just how big the Nazis were on all of the racial BS; being forced to abandon that murderous agenda was a defeat for them.
    The story of the use of Nazi operatives by the CIA after the war, the collusion of the Vatican in arranging escapes for war criminals, etc., was a disgusting artifact of the conflict and show just how low countries can sink when they operate with the mentality that “the ends justify the means”. The U.S. had practically zero understanding of the Soviet Union and allowed itself to fall into a cycle of fear and loathing that led in some cases to highly questionable decisions and policies regarding the Nazi war criminals.
    Cheers

  399. Vlad Krandz March 8, 2011 at 4:04 pm #

    Yes Alex, every woman knows the Man who is her Master.
    Bravo for standing up for the Rights of Aristocrats against the “littel people”. Aristocracies are only thrown down in order to set up new Aristocracies – often worse. The new one in the offing is the most devilishly clever in history – using the rights and plights of the littel people as a moral argument for mayhem and revenge. We DO need a new Aristocracy, but not the New World Order Thugs.
    So much written about the Littles and how good they and how they know what’s best for the world. Bullshit. The littles don’t know shit -not even what’s good for themselves as a class. And often not even what’s good for themselves personally.
    Prince Harry should organize a Coup and take the Throne. William is to much of the Burgher type to do what needs must be done – which is obviously to throw the Muzzies out. As Morrisey said, a rush and a push and the land will be our’s.

  400. wagelaborer March 8, 2011 at 4:11 pm #

    I concede your point about the nazis being forced to abandon their extermination plans. That was a defeat.
    But you admit that the US saved a lot of them, imported a lot of them, put them back into positions of power, and allowed their corporate backers to resume operations.
    That was my main point.
    By the way, I don’t think that the manufactured fear of the USSR justifies the multiple crimes of the US since 1945.
    Especially because that particular excuse was removed 20 years ago, and US war crimes continue.
    At some point, don’t you just have to admit that it was all bullshit?

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  401. Vlad Krandz March 8, 2011 at 4:12 pm #

    Michelle high fived Obama at the Arizona Memorial for a great speech. Such deep and devout people.
    Now you must admit that the Jews dominate media and they use their power ruthlessly. The Communists have always protected them but what have they done to deserve any special protection? That is Sheen’s real sin, that he spoke the sacred word Jew. It’s time for you to rethink your position on this Ethnic Lobby and its role in our public life and foreign policy.

  402. Vlad Krandz March 8, 2011 at 4:16 pm #

    The Public is a Woman even as your Hitler said.

  403. montsegur March 8, 2011 at 4:17 pm #

    Wagelaborer asked: “At some point, don’t you just have to admit that it was all bullshit?”
    ================================
    Personally, for me, it was not. Particular actions of the Allied forces ensured the survival of my mother and her parents.
    As a point of clarification, my comments about the fear of Soviets driving U.S. policy were about the period until about 1950 or thereabouts.
    Cheers

  404. Bustin J March 8, 2011 at 4:33 pm #

    Elthro Tull said, “Obama is betting the farm on technologies that are a GENERATION away while our very real current problems won’t wait that long for a solution.Indeed, the dark comedy is that there might be a ten to fifteen year gap between the virtual end of oil and a full-speed altfuels industry.”
    When you face the fact that the costs associated with climate change are projected to eat the entire world’s economic growth within that generation, I’d say that altfuels are a good deal. Oil and gas are treasures of geologic energy and the expenditure daily to carry people around is a frivolous waste of resources. All the oil and gas companies are fraudulent, criminal enterprises, don’t kid yourself. They get tons of money in subsidies.
    Its high time humanity put the brakes on growth and burning the world’s energy supplies. Tax ’em all, enforce quotas and bans meant to limit their power.
    Humanity’s real predilection is the fact that economic growth and resource use AKA the extractive economy is incompatible with ecological sustainability. Its GAME OVER for us if we continue to exploit. We’re destroying the future by demanding natural resources be converted to cars and iPads.
    I say TAX EM ALL and stop subsidizing the major offenders.

  405. SNAFU March 8, 2011 at 4:38 pm #

    Cash inquired: “So is praying like writing letters to Santa Claus?”
    No. Back in 1954 the us postal service instituted a program to collect letters sent to santa and respond to them. A child has a reasonably good chance of receiving a response to his/her letter to santa, provided they can determine her/his address; unfortunately, no chance for a response to a prayer.
    Ah ha, the plot sickens [sic] again. Could it be that your religious fervor stems from your conviction that you and your family were spared whilst trapped in a firefight cross fire by the miracle of prayer, rather than by chance?
    SNAFU

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  406. Bustin J March 8, 2011 at 4:45 pm #

    vlad predicts: “Probably the next time they will use a woman – ”
    I will bet money on Hillary being the next prez.

  407. Vlad Krandz March 8, 2011 at 4:50 pm #

    The Nazis proved to be useful scapegoats for the atrocities of many others. The Russians blamed the Nazis for the massacre of Polish Officers in the Katyn Forest – and they were believed for many years until the Truth prevailed. Likewise, the Holocaust Story gave justification in the minds of many for the persecution of the Palestinian People by Israel. Likewise the Allies wiped their bloody hands – Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, the Keelhaul Project, Eisenhower’s Death Camps, the starvation of the Germans population after the war, the ethnic cleansing of the Baltic Germans, etc with the bloody rag of the Holocaust.
    Note: apparently there were some massacres in the East. The Nazis suffered heavily from the Partisans, both Jewish and Slavic. They would retaliate by killing civilians. They had been greeted as Liberators in many parts of Eastern Europe suffering under the Communist Tyranny. But they treated the people poorly even apart from the pogroms. Hitler’s Dream of a German East may have cost the West its future. Many who could have been his friend became his enemy.

  408. MarlinFive54 March 8, 2011 at 4:51 pm #

    BustinJ;
    Good Solzhsenitsyn quote.
    Wasn’t he a Nobel Prize winner … back in’73.
    That was an interesting quote because Celine says much the same thing in “Journey to the End of the Night”, the great novel of the 20th century, remember, talking about Leon Robinson in Africa when he finds out how Robinson is taking care of his orphaned niece back in France. That’s a great scene in world lit., one of the greatest.
    I’m not snarling. I’m not mad at anybody.
    RThunder, thanx for responding!
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  409. asia March 8, 2011 at 4:54 pm #

    Turned AM Radio on last nite. Station was talkin Sheen. So I turned to the next station, OOPS, talkin Sheen there as well.

  410. asia March 8, 2011 at 4:57 pm #

    Cousin died in Nam. He was a handsome Norwegian bloodline Marine. We were fighting Communism!
    Yeah right. Now we import goods from Vietnam made by slave labor.
    And we import Vietnamese as well.
    Welcome to hell.

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  411. Vlad Krandz March 8, 2011 at 4:58 pm #

    The politicians you describe are Globalist Swine to be sure. But why condemn the Quebecois of previous generations who had the good sense to opt out of Anglo-American War Mongering? Wars destroy Civilizations past a certain point – in many ways: psychological, finacial, genetic, etc. We have not recovered from those wars, Cash. And it doesn’t look now like we ever will have a chance to. Imagine if America had had the good sense to stay out of WW1 – it would have remained a local fight won by Central Europe. England would have withdrawn and things would have gone back to normal. Austro-Hungary would have fallen apart at some point but Russia may have been saved from Communism.

  412. asoka March 8, 2011 at 5:09 pm #

    Wage said: “So I am disregarding your assertions that Ann Dunham was a good person, doing good work.”
    ============
    While most women were doing other things in the 60’s, Ann Dunham was getting a PhD that she used to help poor women in rural villages in the third world. I’m not going to criticize her because she got support from the Ford Foundation or USAID.
    Just as you think I am duped by TPTB, you are more of an ideologue than I thought.
    I guess I’m more a pragmatist/utilitarian: greatest good for the greatest number (no matter where the funds come from)

  413. asoka March 8, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    BTW, I was complementing you, Wage, in my last post. Just so there is no misunderstanding:
    IDEOLOGUE
    an individual whose political opinions are carefully thought out and relatively consistent with one another. Ideologues are often described as having a comprehensive world view.
    You also have a wealth of insider information about the Truth Movement and other conspiracies.
    I am mostly ignorant of what TPTB are really doing. Ignorance is bliss.

  414. asoka March 8, 2011 at 5:15 pm #

    CORRECTION
    BTW, I was complimenting you, Wage

  415. asoka March 8, 2011 at 5:24 pm #

    Cash said: “What’s being forgotten here is the average joe that did the fighting and suffering.”
    ============
    Are you forgetting that the guys on the other side are also “average joes”? Those other average joes should not be killed, either.
    What does it say about average joes (on both sides of the battlefield) that they are so easily duped into becoming stupid cannon fodder for greedy war profiteers and morally-challenged politicians?

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  416. asoka March 8, 2011 at 5:29 pm #

    asia said: “We were fighting Communism!
    Yeah right. Now we import goods from Vietnam made by slave labor.”
    ===================
    asia, Donald Trump put new windows into his buildings. He imported the windows from Communist-Party-controlled China, made by Chinese slave labor.
    Trump did not buy made-in-USA windows. Too expensive, apparently, though he has the money. Donald Trump is not a patriot.

  417. asoka March 8, 2011 at 5:32 pm #

    Marlin, can you disassemble, clean, and reassemble your rifle in the dark? It is a good skill to have.
    Put on a blindfold and practice until it becomes automatic.

  418. asoka March 8, 2011 at 5:35 pm #

    BustinJ said: “I will bet money on Hillary being the next prez.”
    ============
    Won’t she be too old in 2016?
    Too many people hate both Clintons and the Clintons have too much baggage.
    I bet she will never become president.

  419. rippedthunder March 8, 2011 at 5:39 pm #

    hello Marln, no thanks needed,I’m always willin’ ta share. My ole man was a WWII vet, even reupped? in ’50 for the forgotten war, Korea, those bastards went through frozen hell. I assume you all have seen Mash! The Chinese took a bigger lickin’ than us. I would think they are pretty damn bitter. I hope they give us a break in the coming oil wars, although that is highly unlikely!

  420. asoka March 8, 2011 at 5:40 pm #

    Vlad said: “Michelle high fived Obama at the Arizona Memorial for a great speech. Such deep and devout people. ”
    ==========
    Meow.
    Did you also criticize their fist-bump?
    Many people cannot stand to see them both in love and happy, with a model family and an organic garden in the front yard. They are normal people… and in this insane culture that makes them subject to criticism.

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  421. rippedthunder March 8, 2011 at 5:44 pm #

    I can, do I get a stuffed bear? I can also load, lubricate , and probably put a round through your thick-ass head. all in the dark. training per the US gub-mint at your expense!

  422. asoka March 8, 2011 at 5:52 pm #

    The Chinese will give us a break. Specifically, they will have their revenge… and leave us broken. Not that we don’t deserve it for all the violence we have visited upon the Chinese, at home and abroad.
    “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.” —JFK
    “I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today, my own government. ” —MLK
    God have mercy on our souls.

  423. asoka March 8, 2011 at 5:55 pm #

    RT said: “I can also load, lubricate , and probably put a round through your thick-ass head. all in the dark.”
    ============
    With or without a night vision scope?

  424. bossier22 March 8, 2011 at 6:03 pm #

    bustinj j, i bet no part of society you decoupled from misses you.

  425. Alexandra March 8, 2011 at 6:13 pm #

    Really Vlad…?
    Well as its stil Int’ wimmins Day, in the US, I’ll retort with a borrowed quote: “I have an idea that the phrase ‘weaker sex’ was coined by some woman to disarm some man she was preparing to overwhelm…”
    And as you like to ooze macho-jockness, you might enjoy this a short message from M!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkp4t5NYzVM
    As to Prince Harry Hewitt Wales, the ultimate revenge of the House of Spencer – via a gal borne of Sandringham… lol
    Nope, William is already preferred by the Brit masses to replace the Queen, if she were to hand on the heavy mantle of colonial moralleadership – tis simple, Camilla’s not liked by the lower-orders at all… which is frankly laughable…
    But the ultimate blasphemy, betrayal would of course have been to have produced a new bloodline living connection to the princely Windsor boyz with lets say a half-brother via the House of al-Fayed…
    But the ‘accident’ in gay Paris put paid to that one, fortunately. Ironic that she’d been staying at the Villa Windsor – Bois de Boulogne.
    However I can see the benefit of dating a guy that has easy access to an AS365N2…
    BTW I lurved this, when it came out a few years back…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40VliFceMfg&
    Night yall, as I still have to figure out whether to go once more for Navtex – which is pretty useless but cheap – or go whole hog for Intellian VSAT… in which case I can play on here till the sats fall outta the skies, no matter how blue-water I be…
    Toodle-pip…

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  426. Cash March 8, 2011 at 6:28 pm #

    I’m not at all blaming the Quebecois. I agree with their wanting to stay out of WW1. But the Anglo Canucks saw it differently. They thought of themselves as Brits, at first at least. Vimy changed that.
    I blame Anglo Canucks for deliberately obliterating what happened. Cannot be justified IMO. For what it’s worth, I agree with a lot of your analysis. WW1 was a war of European powers pure and simple and it had catastrophic consequences which we’re still feeling.

  427. frozen pipes March 8, 2011 at 6:29 pm #

    Brilliant. Thank you! Laugh a minute. What a good time this was!
    I can’t wait to see George Will riding his bike on that freeway that runs through his head!

  428. Cash March 8, 2011 at 6:32 pm #

    SNAFU I keep hearing about the crisis of education in the US. Are you and Bustin both American? Seems that you two are the poster boys for that crisis. Here’s some advice, work on your reading comprehension. Also learn some critical thinking skills. Never mind, just work on basic reading skills.

  429. Cash March 8, 2011 at 6:36 pm #

    No. What I was saying is that praying when you are in an extreme situation is not like writing letters to Santa Claus. I don’t pray but when I thought that my wife might die on me (cancer) I began to understand the impulse. You know: desperation.

  430. Cash March 8, 2011 at 6:49 pm #

    I don’t think the fear wasn’t manufactured.
    I worked with a Ukrainian woman most of whose family was murdered by Stalin in the 1930s during the genocide. Millions of Ukrainians were killed during that time.
    Are there any East Germans out there with stories about the warm and loving embrace of the Stasi?
    I worked with a Chinese fellow that lived through the Cultural Revolution. He told me that when he was a school boy, he and his schoolmates would all be taken to watch people being shot at a playing field. Can you picture that?

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  431. Cash March 8, 2011 at 6:50 pm #

    Correction:I don’t think the fear was manufactured

  432. rippedthunder March 8, 2011 at 7:15 pm #

    sorry Asoka, no night vision scope needed. I would just listen for your wide assed heavy mouthed inhalations!We all know your type are deep breathers!

  433. Bustin J March 8, 2011 at 7:22 pm #

    jackie2nbvu said, “One of the accounts was MacD’s. I would have to walk thru the kitchen all the way to the back to get the water, and then back thru to the eating area, I’d be sticky with grease just from that. It was Gross.”
    I once saw some measurements for aerosolized grease. Basically these are small fat particles that are generated by grills and fryers and they are present in the air around fast food restaurants, especially. Once you start getting a good concentration of them, like in an urban area, it really starts to add up. Kind of the saturated fat that makes the smog stick together.
    asocks says, “Won’t she be too old in 2016?
    Too many people hate both Clintons and the Clintons have too much baggage.”
    First factor is that she is a woman, women are ascendant. Second factor is that baggage tends to evaporate after decades. Third, she’ll be just getting done running foreign diplomacy, and Wikileaks proves that it isn’t a moron outfit. She’ll have substantial diplomatic cred. Fourth, second major campaign means more skillz to win. Fifth, she was too close last time to not try again. Sixth, Obama is going to be an easier target as sitting duck in chief. Seventh, she can take the harsh tack toward Repubs, which Obama seems constitutionally unable to do. Eight, feminism always piggybacks on civil rights gains. Nine, America is sick of chief executives who golf.

  434. rippedthunder March 8, 2011 at 7:25 pm #

    me , not so much, i can make a 30 minute SCBA last close to twenty minutes. the tanks are way overated. they used to be 2200 psi aluminum now they are 4500 psi, carbon fiber. My first captain taught me that. air is life!and I am over 220 lbs. breath slow and deep ,savor every breadth! go through about 3 or 4 tanks and then we can talk, PUSSIE!

  435. MarlinFive54 March 8, 2011 at 7:31 pm #

    RThunder;
    Same with my old man, WW11, then off to Korea in 1951. He said Korea was worse. More brutal. Of course that’s where he lost his leg and got that plate in his head.
    I’d say we as a nation had more balls back then — look at our fathers–but I talk to young vets when I go to the VA clinic in Winsted. Some had been deployed 2, 3 times. They’re still in their 20’s. They got balls, too.
    Last week Martin Hayes said we (the US) was going to lose. It wasn’t clear what he meant, but I don’t see us losing anything anytime soon.
    How about you?
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

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  436. jdfarmer March 8, 2011 at 7:41 pm #

    Belisarius
    I am not a fan of ethanol (you can check back to previous posts, a long time ago).
    Even Gore recently admitted that it is a bad idea.
    http://www.agweek.com/event/article/id/17853/
    But consider this. When my grand folks immigrated in the late 1800’s, fully 1/3 of their annual harvest, was used to feed the draft animals. So to say we are burning food, we may be. But we are currently eating oil.

  437. rocco March 8, 2011 at 7:44 pm #

    Our local weather guy just told us to get outside by 19:24hrs and see the space shuttle return. Enjoying the cold crisp winter, our family and a few neighbors went outside and after 10 minutes we saw it zoom by( either that a plane or a UFO) but as a man about to hit 50 and grew up with Star Trek, it was a sad moment. The end of the space age and the exploration of space, back to the days of the darken orthodoxy rule. Where our leaders worry about Harry Potter, evolution, consenting gay adults getting married, swearing,and Halloween. Then followed by those evil health care unions where wiping your butt and lifting, washing, healing, and saving your life for $8 to 10 an hour is too much, or crawling around in the dark with full gear, carring a tool through smoke, heat and other dangers to save your life for around $14 an hour is too much. Being one for pay and the other for volunteer I experieced both. The church members carry their bible while saying business and banks need a break from those evil people that heal you, save you, and protect you. I going to Zeus!!
    JHK :another great read!!

  438. Eleuthero March 8, 2011 at 7:47 pm #

    K dog said:
    I think you are confusing inaction with a master plan.
    **************************************************
    Point taken. In fact, the total volume of
    Federal monies (you know, those so-called
    “shovel-ready” projects) devoted to altfuels
    and transportation infrastructure improvement
    can best be described as “token”.
    You and I will never know what the “master plan”
    really is but it’s amazing how little action has
    backed up a mountain of rhetoric. Meanwhile,
    we’ve got a veritable Saudi Arabia up in North
    Dakota and it isn’t being developed.
    With Obama, you have to look at what he DOES
    (rehire Gates as Defense Sec’y, rehire Bernanke,
    hire a JPM guy as Chief of Staff, fill his
    cabinet with Wall St. scum) and not what he
    SAYS. He’s a classic empty suit.
    E.

  439. antimoronsociety March 8, 2011 at 7:48 pm #

    TRAINS BOATS AND PLANES ERR skip the planes. I see to many posts here that the rail system is the solution t6o all our problems NOT. We spent billions producing the most advanced transport System in the world called the Interstate Highway system or to most of you all those 4-6 lane roads starting with I and followed by a number like I-95?
    The system works for us and China only can wish they had one like ours instead of donkey kart timber trails as soon as you leave the main city
    With some clever thinking and mass reeducation this roadway can be converted in stages to run rail trains or rubber tired trains or some form of mover that transports people from all existing exists to the jobs they need and back. The same system serves rural America and can be just as useful in a post oil economy. Time to get the thinkers in one big room and put them to productive work.

  440. JonathanSS March 8, 2011 at 7:51 pm #

    Obviously jet fuel cannot pulverize a steel skyscraper into dust. I am amazed, and that’s really saying something, that people still believe that.

    Can’t wait to read your theories, Lord. Make sure you detail the following:
    1. Your background, education and experience in architecture, engineering and/or physics.
    2. The questions you asked the original architect of the Towers.
    3. The blast forces in Newtons and how they blew heat shielding off the metal skeleton.
    4. The temperature the jet fuel burned at and the melting temp. of the steel structure.
    5. The forces on the lower floors as the structure collapsed due to gravity.
    6. Include in lab simulation, computer modeling & other experiments you conducted during your research in order to confirm your findings.
    Regards

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  441. myrtlemay March 8, 2011 at 7:52 pm #

    Wow! Your musings got me. While watching the ACC tournament with a neighbor this past weekend, Charlie Sheen came up in the conversation during half time. Personally, I only know who he is because I used to be a fan of his father, Martin Sheen. Anyway, I’m guessing, Bustin J, that you are somewhere in your mid to late thirties, because Sheen is around 40, I think. My neighbor is 38 and he thinks Charlie Sheen “rocks” because of the way he has flipped the bird to the entertainment establishment in Hollywood. I have to admit, I never really thought of it that way. You and others have commented on how Sheen is putting a mirror up to society (as well as his own nose, lol) and saying, “F.U. I’m Charlie Sheen and I don’t have to play with you guys anymore.” To which I say: “Okay, alright by me.” I forced myself (w/ hubby) to watch the 2 1/2 Men last night sitcom (first time) and have to admit it’s the biggest pile of doo doo I’ve ever seen on television (and that’s saying a lot!) But be that as it may, it’s HIS life, and he’s got the money to call the studio execs in Hollywood “clowns” if that’s what he wants to do.
    My only lament to my neighbor who is like-minded with you, is that I saw Judy Garland self-destruct before my very eyes on a television program she had back in the ’60s. She died at the grand old age of 47, I think. Living fast and hard is one thing, and many a gifted star burned bright, fast, and died early. Maybe it’s a function of being extremely talented. I don’t know. But whatever “it” is that makes stars burn out before their prime, good ole Charlie just doesn’t seem to have the stuff, imo, of course. Given enough money, anyone can pre-empt their life with an excessive lifestyle.

  442. Eleuthero March 8, 2011 at 7:58 pm #

    As more evidence that the Obama Administration
    is an ersatz “liberal” administration with as
    many frauds as Reagan’s Cabinet, take the example
    of Michele Rhee … one of the “Teach for America”
    nutjobs. Turns out she falsified her resume and
    did not accomplish what she claimed to have
    accomplished in Baltimore, including
    falsifications of test scores.
    As another example, in an attempt to mollify
    Republicans, Obama is suggesting a very large
    cut to funds for the SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION
    which, among other things, provides loans for
    fledgling businesses. Is this guy a Remocrat or
    a Depublican?
    Seriously. Who in hell is this guy?? And, of
    course, the LAST freaking thing he’s going to
    do is increase the marginal tax rates on his
    rich Wall St. backers. If this guy is a
    Democrat, I’m Barbara Walters.
    E.

  443. antimoronsociety March 8, 2011 at 7:59 pm #

    CHEMTRAILS
    Living in the sunshine state we have noticed the almost nonstop spraying of chemtrails this year. Jim can you dedicate some of your research time on getting our gov to tell us why7 they are spraying us with chemicals and blood born pathogens,Barium and other harmful substances. Before you brush me off as a KOOK this is no longer a theory and has been proven. Why then do our wonder boys and girls in Washington so silent on this issue. LOOK UP IN THE SKY PEOPLE!
    Its not just happening in the USA its all over the western world including Europe. Just google “SKY PICTURES” and look for the long white streaks in the sky. Its not contrails for those that think it is.

  444. Qshtik March 8, 2011 at 8:01 pm #

    The Public is a Woman even as your Hitler said.
    ===================
    No idea what this means but it sounds pithy.
    My Hitler?

  445. Eleuthero March 8, 2011 at 8:01 pm #

    So the Interstate Highway system is the
    answer, eh? Uh … right. It’ll be such
    a great use of money to fix it up just in
    time for $10/gallon gasoline when these
    highways will never need any more maintenance
    because hardly anyone will travel.
    Rail has the highest EFFICIENCY OF FUEL USE
    of any mode of ordinary transportation. I
    think you should change your handle if you’re
    going to make posts that aren’t exactly works
    of genius.
    E.

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  446. Eleuthero March 8, 2011 at 8:02 pm #

    Too late … I do brush you off as a kook. 🙂
    They’re also watching you and your wife have
    sex from spy satellites at the L-5 points.
    E.

  447. myrtlemay March 8, 2011 at 8:03 pm #

    I LOVE both you and k-dog’s acronyms! PERFECT! INSPIRED! BRAVO!

  448. myrtlemay March 8, 2011 at 8:17 pm #

    Wage, PLEASE don’t try to tell RI ANYTHING he doesn’t wish to hear or believe. It’s like yelling into the Grand Canyon – all you get is your own voice shouting back at you, FILLED with massive distortions! I decided a while ago that I’m simply not gonna play RI’s little games. Personally, I think you’d have better luck beating candy from a 300 ton pinata than deciphering the horse xhit from RI. My opinion, of course.

  449. orionoir March 8, 2011 at 8:28 pm #

    {They’re also watching you and your wife have
    sex from spy satellites at the L-5 points.}
    ——
    everyone knows that the government watches us have sex through our televisions. think not? think again!
    tv sets have grown bigger at the same rate as the budget for the united states department of homeland security — coincidence, you say? what about the cbs eye? the nbc peacock? or the addams family-style eyeball peering out from the ‘o’ in fox news?
    word to the wise: don’t embarrass yourself with anticlimactic climaxes, nor with radical islamic positions you may have seen in a library book once. keep it wholesome, but don’t lose sight of the narrative arc. and, just in case dick cheney is listening through the radio, try to keep the gastric noises to a minimum.

  450. progressorconserve March 8, 2011 at 8:31 pm #

    “Rail has the highest EFFICIENCY OF FUEL USE
    of any mode of ordinary transportation”
    -E-
    E, I’d like to directly challenge you on these figures. Rail and conventional cars are pretty much neck-and-neck on passenger-miles per gallon, according to the figures I keep finding and posting.
    You sound like an urban dweller. I don’t deny that rail has its advantages as transportation for densely packed urban areas.
    But we’ve got this huge overhang of investment in suburban infrastructure that’s not going to go away just because the passenger rail advocates will it to go away.
    Plus – adopting urban living will be a decades long process for the US – if it ever happens.
    Back to you,
    PoC

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  451. Qshtik March 8, 2011 at 8:35 pm #

    Are you forgetting that the guys on the other side are also “average joes”? Those other average joes should not be killed, either.
    ===========
    Patton (Geo C Scott) said you don’t win a war by dying for your country. You win a war by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.

  452. WestCoast March 8, 2011 at 8:45 pm #

    ” Too many people hate both Clintons and the Clintons have too much baggage.
    I bet she will never become president.”
    You have seen the catalog of her crimes as the first lady of Arkansas?
    http://prorev.com/connex.htm

  453. Qshtik March 8, 2011 at 8:46 pm #

    God have mercy on our souls.
    ============
    Metaphorically speaking.

  454. progressorconserve March 8, 2011 at 8:46 pm #

    “everyone knows that the government watches us have sex through our televisions. think not? think again!” -orion-
    OMG, orion, that thought takes me way, way back.
    My mom worked when I was a little kid. We didn’t have a baby sitter, day care, or a ‘nanny.’
    We had a maid. She was the coolest colored (aka black) lady. She had kids my age who were my friends – it was one of those mutual and sustainable black/white relationships that were common, necessary, and sustainable in the rural and small town south – now, sadly, mostly gone.
    Anywho – the only way this woman could get me out of my pj’s in the morning was to wait for the first “kiddie show” to come on at 8:00 a.m. – and then tell me that all the little kids on the TV could see me in my pajamas. “They will see you and laugh at you for not being dressed, little PoC,” she would say to me every morning.
    Seriously, I haven’t worn a pair of pajamas for almost 50 years, now. I’ll sleep nude, when it’s just my wife and me in the house – in boxers otherwise.
    Anything’s better than being caught in those pajamas!

  455. Vlad Krandz March 8, 2011 at 8:52 pm #

    A great speaker like Louis Farakahn, Obama, or Hitler seduce their passive audience like a man might seduce a woman. It is the opposite of what the Founders believed in – an informed and non-passive citizenry as opposed to passive consumers with the mouths open in wonderment like baby chicks waiting to be fed.

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  456. asia March 8, 2011 at 8:56 pm #

    I see streaks over LA, day after day.
    Except on some holidays!

  457. Eleuthero March 8, 2011 at 8:59 pm #

    Orion said:
    everyone knows that the government watches us have sex through our televisions. think not? think again!
    ****************************************************
    And who gives a damn??? And who can do anything
    about it?? And who REALLY knows? Fucking ME!!!
    That’s who.
    What did I do at SRI in the 1980s?
    Surveillance satellites. Go ahead. Make my
    day.
    E.

  458. asia March 8, 2011 at 9:01 pm #

    Meow y’self!
    Those 2 are shameless media whores and used the slaughter of people to further [or try to] their own agenda.
    Pity obama didnt ask for another ‘let us not rush to judgement’ moment.

  459. Vlad Krandz March 8, 2011 at 9:03 pm #

    If women earn as much as men, then what would be their motivation to marry men? Remember, money is what attracts women in general. One of the main reason for the income difference is that women take time off to have children – or even give up their careers for years at a time. So not only should the difference not be erased – it should be increased. More women should take more time off or give up the job all together. That is the sign of a healthy society. Equality means sameness – no polarity, no passion. Death in other words. One of the secrets of Islamic Strength is to exaggerate the gender differences. This creates power – both psychological and demographic. Our one size fits all approach cannot compete with them.

  460. Qshtik March 8, 2011 at 9:06 pm #

    ,savor every breadth!
    breadth?
    –noun
    1. the measure of the second largest dimension of a plane or solid figure; width.

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  461. Vlad Krandz March 8, 2011 at 9:11 pm #

    Obama had no feeling of sadness for the slain. It was just a performance – all about him in other words. She’s his enabler, judge, and competitor in the Ego Games.

  462. Buck Stud March 8, 2011 at 9:11 pm #

    Did anyone else notice last week JHK’s mention of a “kick-ass” screenplay he wrote? I sure did and what really grabbed my attention was the bodacious proclamation. Before TLE arrives, there’s fame and fortune to be had along with some self-congratulatory pats-on-the-ass. I can dig it; I’m doing some kick-ass work myself these days.
    And apparently some of our fellow posters are too,witnessed by the plethora of web-links posted immediately following Kunstler’s new weekly posting first thing Monday morning…piggybacking motherfuckers 🙂

  463. progressorconserve March 8, 2011 at 9:14 pm #

    So SNAFU –
    I’m approaching this discussion of atheism vs theism with you like I would approach the first contact in a wrestling match. In other words, if I make the wrong opening move you’re gonna slam me to the mat.
    Bad analogy, maybe, but this would be a lot more fun in person. There is humor, joie de vivre, spirituality, – whatever you want to call it – that is visible in me in person that I can just NOT FREAKIN’ MAKE TRANSLATE into print.
    So, I can’t be converted to pure atheism, in spite of logic or Faith – although I’m giving it another serious look right now, for about the 3rd time in my life. I know what the final result will be, though – I’ll return to my default setting of relaxed agnostic Christianity, yet again.
    And I’ve been studying atheism through history, and just recently finished the book, “Losing My Religion.” Atheism really does have a strong positive correlation with prosperity. Which means that energy use in the US and Europe have fostered atheism – which means it may decline with peak everything.
    Cash, Snafu, Bustin, Ozone, Ripped, Wage, and others – I think we’re all experiencing some “cross talk” where we are confusing one another’s ideas in our posts regarding religion and/or the lack thereof.
    I don’t have a solution, except that I’ll try to be more careful and targeted with my posts. And, man, would this ever be fun in person!!
    Regards y’all,
    PoC

  464. asia March 8, 2011 at 9:16 pm #

    Please list.
    I did read ‘HELL TO PAY’ but in books like that there are so many players, so many names.
    My fav was the Larouche published book with the info on drugs thru arkansas.

  465. asoka March 8, 2011 at 9:16 pm #

    RT said: “I would just listen for your wide assed heavy mouthed inhalations!We all know your type are deep breathers!”
    =========
    RT, have you ever put a bullet into the head of deep breather? How many of “my type” have you killed?

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  466. asia March 8, 2011 at 9:18 pm #

    I did look at chart…
    My theory is the red chinese were grooming him [$$$$$]from early on!

  467. Buck Stud March 8, 2011 at 9:19 pm #

    You really are a clown, sandwiching President Obama right smack in between Farrakhan and Hitler.

  468. k-dog March 8, 2011 at 9:20 pm #

    Cash I’m treading on thin ice mocking prayer.
    I’m going to stop though I’m sure plenty of prayers have been said in the last few days for the downfall of Colonel Gaddafi, low low gas prices and a continuation of the non-negotiable American way of life.
    Regarding the scenarios you presented I will comment. Divinity has nothing to do with man’s inhumanity to man. Men cause war and poverty.
    I’m sorry your parents suffered as they did but god by whatever name he/she is called did not cause their suffering, men did. Expecting divine intervention to solve mans problems is irresponsible.
    Regarding hiding under wooden planks while bombs are being dropped I’ll say whatever it takes to get one through the day is fine by me.
    I don’t mean to offend, but there are a lot of selfish people deluding themselves into believing that the big dog is on their side. This causes much suffering.
    I was in a hospital waiting room today and a TV was on CNN. Fortunately sound was off and subtitles were on. Seems we have to save the Libyan people from the Libyan people and the ‘WAR ROOM’ is in full swing. No doubt god is on our side. Maybe Wolf Blixer said exactly that, maybe he didn’t. I don’t know, the sound was off.

  469. asoka March 8, 2011 at 9:20 pm #

    The whole country was feeling sadness. What they needed was a leader to put it into perspective and that is what they got. Worth a high five because it was so well done.

  470. rippedthunder March 8, 2011 at 9:23 pm #

    No Pajama’s! yikes. I guess I won’t be sleepin’ tonight! As Marlon Brando said “The Horror!”

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  471. rippedthunder March 8, 2011 at 9:25 pm #

    Not many but you are on my short list!

  472. rippedthunder March 8, 2011 at 9:28 pm #

    okay Breath, sorry!

  473. asoka March 8, 2011 at 9:34 pm #

    “Last week Martin Hayes said we (the US) was going to lose. It wasn’t clear what he meant, but I don’t see us losing anything anytime soon.”
    ==========
    Anytime you spend ten years occupying a country, and the enemy continues to get stronger, you have lost. All that remains is to withdraw the troops.
    Al-Qaeda-Taliban alliance stronger than ever, says US army chief
    Afghan Taliban getting stronger, Pentagon says
    http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/29/world/la-fg-0429-us-afghan-20100429

  474. myrtlemay March 8, 2011 at 9:36 pm #

    OUCH!

  475. asoka March 8, 2011 at 9:37 pm #

    RT, do you have both a long list and a short list? How many are on each?

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  476. SNAFU March 8, 2011 at 9:56 pm #

    Guilty as charged an american; however, I attended school back in the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s before social promotions became the norm.
    Perhaps you might point out which pearls of wisdom you meted out that I glossed over.
    SNAFU

  477. bridges March 8, 2011 at 11:11 pm #

    Just my opinion, natrually, but why anyone is waiting for permission from the media to take trains or whatever is a continuing mystery. I regard Geo Will’s statement as a sign that a new pragmatism, the wisdom of citizens not merely consumers, is already arising and PTB realize this. No seriously. Most people I know, in a law firm, are already making quiet, pragmatic changes such as relying on trains. Stop expecting PTB to make the first move, it ain’t gonna happen. YOU be the change. YOU plant a garden, join a co-op, buy American, protest unfair taxation, whatever…stop the bitching, put away the violent, paranoid fantasizing and for cryin out loud GET ON WITH It

  478. Eleuthero March 8, 2011 at 11:57 pm #

    PorC said:
    E, I’d like to directly challenge you on these figures. Rail and conventional cars are pretty much neck-and-neck on passenger-miles per gallon, according to the figures I keep finding and posting.
    ****************************************************
    Not per payload!!! I want to see these alleged
    “figures” you refer to. I’m referring to miles
    per gallon PER UNIT HAULED. Ain’t no freaking
    way that cars compete on that metric. I say
    “ball’s more in your court than mine”.
    I challenge your challenge. 🙂 You load a
    large SUV with nine people and the miles per
    gallon drops PRECIPITOUSLY (around 25%). You
    look at, especially, freight rail, where the
    payload is likely to be heavier than the weight
    of the car itself.
    Finally, I want you to show me a ROAD where the
    friction is minimized as much as it is in the
    rail system. They all have big ruts, holes,
    and so forth. Rail ties have surface variations
    that are far smaller than the surface variations
    in roads. Indeed, if they were as BAD as roads,
    we wouldn’t have ANY rail system at all.
    E.

  479. jackieblue2u March 9, 2011 at 1:39 am #

    I think those of us who Pray in these kinds of situations do it partly to calm ourselves. And to hope for the best in case the worst happens, and in case there is a hereafter.
    my .02 on this.

  480. jackieblue2u March 9, 2011 at 1:59 am #

    OMG that is so True. I can see cars as assisted living devices. Good for you losing all that stuff. I pay way too much for cell phone, I am on call caregiver so need one for now anyway. Costs 80.00 month. no land line. It all adds up. Cars and Insurance, oh yeah and GAS. Cars are a pain in more ways than one.
    I got whiplash now for a year, constant headaches, was rear ended, things change in a split second.
    It’s all too much we are on overload. Things going too fast.

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  481. Vlad Krandz March 9, 2011 at 2:34 am #

    Obama is on good terms with Farakahn I believe. And he has never disavowed the racial hatred preached by Reverend Wright. People like you elected a Black Communist Racist. Congratualtions dupe. Why is racial pride alright for Blacks but not for Whites? And by the same token, if you going to be against hate, you have to be against all of it – not just by Whites.

  482. k-dog March 9, 2011 at 3:43 am #

    I agree with you, more to it than simple narcissism. Your .02 is worth .25 at least and probably more than that.

  483. k-dog March 9, 2011 at 4:18 am #

    I’m withdrawing my suggestion that the Guantanamo prisoners be flown to the mainland on Virgin Atlantic Airlines. The plane would mysteriously crash. The prisoners would be in paradise with plenty of virgins apiece that’s for sure, but living is still better than dying.
    I just watched Gitmo: The New Rules of War
    It’s a dated flick now, the prisoners no doubt have even more to tell. More than Obama could deal with that’s for sure.

    President Barack Obama took office on a pledge to close the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, prison; incarcerate its detainees on the U.S. mainland; abandon the military commissions and try them in civilian courts; and end the George W. Bush-era policy of indefinite detention without trial.
    On Monday, while denying he was doing so, Obama issued an executive order that takes the fates of the detainees back to where they were at the end of the Bush administration.

    The full article if you want it.
    Netflix Rocks

  484. old6699 March 9, 2011 at 5:53 am #

    Hey, stick, dipstic, dipweed, and you can guess the rest, the story is since you have nothing to say about my ideas, since you have no way to counter them, you attack these petty parts of it. Actually no one has ever challenged even a little part of what I say because it is so over their heads and so true it is almost blinding:
    No one can challenge the real effect technology, science and innovation are having on all productive endeavors namely rendering labor more and more unnecessary and not needed;
    no one can challenge the fact that money is simply a make believe invention, a place holder, not a fixed amount that “runs out”, but a denotation of social relationships, of simply relationships between people and groups of people, hence it can’t run out, is in fact infinite;
    no one can challenge the fact that living in large skyscrapers where you have offices or laboratories or wherever the “work” will be performed in the future on one floor (I actually think there will no longer really be much of any work in the future, but even work is simply a social relationship just like money so can be infinite and can’t run out so to say, but anyways…), homes on another floor and stores or whatever on another floor would render all modes of transportation not even needed anymore (hence the resource scarcity myth completely breaks down, you don’t even need oil);
    no one can challenge the fact that without a very articulate and dense BUS system throughout the USA, any passenger train system is totally worthless, etc;
    no one can challenge the fact that a home is just a box you use to live in, home ownership is not a metaphysical law of physics, is not the only possible way to organize living arrangements, and cheap rents would go a long way on increasing the standard of living of most people;
    no one can ever challenge the fact that free basic health care with the option that anyone can buy any private parts they want, as they are “Free Markets” (free as in you can choose and not free as in the US, I can deny you health because you don’t work) and as is practiced in JAPAN, South Korea, Germany, Canada, etc. is a much smarter system then the american cluskterfuck private pig hog up all system, etc.
    I could go on and on, but you get what I am saying…

  485. mow March 9, 2011 at 7:13 am #

    i agree with frank zappas ancient quote regarding people who act up like charlie .
    “they are assholes in motion”

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  486. MarlinFive54 March 9, 2011 at 7:16 am #

    No, old6699, I don’t know what the hell you are saying. Millions of skyscrapers, colonizing the galaxy, free salaries for all … my only conclusion is that you’re simply bullshitting us, or else you’re a red herring just trying to f–k things up on this site. That’s your right. Have at it! There’s a lot of bullshit strewn around here, (amongst some pretty insightful stuff) but yours is the worst.
    Charlie Sheen has his own self produced show on You Tube now, a freak show if you will, part of the larger American Freak Show that we witness, incredulously, every single day. Maybe you can get a spot on it elaborating your crank theories. it would fit right in.
    Asoka, you ask me if I could strip down my rifle in the dark and reassemble it. I detected a hint of sarcasm in your post but I’ll take it as a straight question and give you a straight answer.
    These old (and new) lever guns that I’m so fond of are not modular, that is they do not come apart so easily. They are not really made to take apart, in the field or on the bench, by an unschooled person. For one thing, you need special tools. Another thing is there are many small parts, springs, screw and pins, that are easily lost. Lever rifles made in Connecticut, in the 19th and 20th centuries, Marlins, Winchesters, Whitneys, Savages, were never adopted by any of the worlds militaries, loosely speaking; they were strictly for sporting (hunting and target shooting) purposes. That’s one of the reasons Iloike them so much.
    Last nite BBC had a segment, “How can we break America’s love affair with guns”? It was the familiar gun control bullshit we’ve heard so many time before, ad nauseum. I have a better question, “How can we get BBC to mind their own goddamn business?”
    The other night I saw a clip that showed bearded and robed Muslims in the public square in the heart of London, shouting thru bullhorns how they will bring down England, impose Shariah law, plant minarets atop Westminster Abbey etc.. They were haranging passersby, waving foriegn flags,taking breaks to face east, prostrate, every so often. I’m wondering, is BBC worried about that?
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  487. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 8:06 am #

    Marlin,
    I tend to concur with you on the Muslim situation in London. It’s a bad situation and it’s going to get worse. Maybe if we look at foreign countries we can figure out what has happened in our own.
    The racists among the CFN can say what they want to, but the Muslim clerics and their followers are quite intelligent in the way the exploit *weakness.*
    The first 3 hijacked planes on 9/11 exploited an amazing gap in Western thought as manifested in FAA security procedures.
    “Agree with hijackers – get the plane on the ground.” – Until the morning of 9/11, this had been generally successful for 40 years, but that spirit of cooperation was exploited by 15 suicidal hijackers on three planes and it ended in a disaster that continues to torment us to this day.
    No one seems to have properly acknowledged that the freedom and intelligence of American citizens crashed that 4th plane before further damage could be done. In a logical world those men on that plane would have been celebrated with the “Trained and Armed Civilians on Airliners Act” or some such equivalent.
    Whoa – that rant took off in an unexpected direction. Let me try to drag back to Muslims in the UK in the next post.

  488. MarlinFive54 March 9, 2011 at 8:21 am #

    PoC;
    Damn, you’re a clear thinker!
    You remind me of my neighbor, a (Jewish) scientist and a lib democrat, but honest, accurate and frank about everything. I respect his take on things, and yours.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  489. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 8:30 am #

    Freedom to protest and make a nuisance of yourself in the streets is an American/Western tradition. Freedom of religion is an American/Western tradition.
    The Muslims in the UK, and to some extent, some of them in the US are combining those two, separate, traditions to create and then exploit another area of *weakness* in Western culture.
    The airline security problem, exposed on 9/11, had a couple of easy work-arounds that the Bush administration and the FAA generally failed to acknowledge or implement. And we’ve been harassing little old ladies, getting on US airliners – ever since.
    I don’t see an easy work-around for this one though, in an area that involves freedom of religion and freedom to protest. Those two freedoms are so BASIC to who we are as a people.
    Marlin, you missed the big dust up last summer over the “Ground Zero Mosque.” What’s the status of that thing? I will still contend that only the New Yorkers have a right to try to stop it, using local tools, under the US Constitution.
    But it’s still a symbol of a problem we may need to begin to examine as a Nation.
    Is it already too late for the Brits?

  490. ozone March 9, 2011 at 8:44 am #

    “So, I can’t be converted to pure atheism, in spite of logic or Faith – although I’m giving it another serious look right now, for about the 3rd time in my life. I know what the final result will be, though – I’ll return to my default setting of relaxed agnostic Christianity, yet again.” -PoC
    ==============
    Hooo-old on thar, Muskie!
    I don’t see anybody trying to “convert” you to anything. That’s just weird. Seems to me the proselytizing is strictly on the part of the “mystics” here. Cut it out, or I’ll have to bring that “piece of paper” that Gee Dubya wiped his ass with down on you! ;o) (It appears we have the right of protection FROM religion, ya know. Now, just why would that be codified by those guys in the wigs? Hmmmmm…)
    Believe in Space Ghost (coast to coast) all you want, but howzabout you trying out your theory of the “religion spot” in the brain developing organically and all on its’ lonesome.
    I’ll bet your Great Religions would wither away without constant rote-reinforcement from the mouthpieces for gawd.
    Your theory needs testing. You be one of the first non-proselytizers to CFN, and we’ll see what spiritual hallucinations/manifestations pop up, shall we? ;o)
    Yours, in unbearable lightness,
    -me
    Ps. k-dawgs post just beneath yours mirrors a lot of my thinking on the matter. I’ll hush about the subject now.

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  491. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 9:52 am #

    “Not per payload!!! I want to see these alleged
    “figures” you refer to. I’m referring to miles
    per gallon PER UNIT HAULED.”
    -E-
    E, you seem to be talking about ton-miles, where railroads have a hands down advantage. I’m talking about passenger-miles per gallon, where advantages go to other modes of transport.
    I posted US govt. figures culled from Wikipedia up the thread. These are, in descending order of efficiency for moving passengers:
    vanpool – most efficient
    hybrid car
    motorcycle
    Amtrak rail
    Light and heavy passenger rail
    Commuter Rail
    Aircraft
    Standard Passenger cars
    Passenger trucks
    Transit buses – leas efficient.
    =============
    IMO, the conversation should be in passenger-miles/gallon (PMPG).
    http://www.railway-technical.com/US-fuel-paper.shtml
    Link above shows PMPG as 41 for 1960 era passenger trains, which were the last data point available in this analysis.
    Link also shows some of the technical reasons why PMPG figures are deucedly hard to pin down.
    SNAFU – you interested, here?
    Just keep in mind that a 50MPG diesel Rabbit with 4 passengers gets 200 PMPG.
    A loaded Boeing 747 gets 91 PMPG.
    Commuter rail gets about 30 PMPG.

  492. hillwalker March 9, 2011 at 9:54 am #

    @Wagelaborer;
    Fascinating. I did not know this, and yeah, sure enough, it checks out.
    Thanks very much for your pointing this out. This rabbit hole goes all the way down. Apparently, even Bush did face time in Paris over this, not just (heh, just) Casey and company in Madrid.
    That said, (and again, thanks) I don’t think this actually rebuts my initial point, that it wasn’t Carter’s ‘paying both sides against the middle’ energy policies that cost him the reelection, it was the Iran thing.

  493. wagelaborer March 9, 2011 at 10:03 am #

    I thought that Hilary would be the chosen one in 2008, because of her (and Bill’s) years of service to TPTB.
    I was wrong. There is no honor among thieves.
    They went with the black guy.
    And I’ve got to admit it was a brilliant choice.

  494. Buck Stud March 9, 2011 at 10:11 am #

    Vlad,
    If you want to get on your racial soapbox once again–some people only have one story to to tell–go ahead, but don’t use my retort as your match fuse. If you’ll go back and have a peek, you’ll see I was specifically responding to how you grouped President Obama with some rather infamous and controversial speakers. Why not Reagan, or some other famous and competent speaker? No, you grasp for Hitler and Farrakhan, and then when called out, take shelter under some utterly obsessive ‘racial hatred’ umbrella.For the sake of clarity, please read more carefully in the future.
    And by the way, I don’t happen to believe President Obama is all that great of a speaker. IMO, he seems to be tracing the outer contour of MLK’s speaking style a bit too rigidly. And where is the loud, booming voice to publicly denounce the criminality of Wall Street, for example? No, like most politicians his saves his best for the campaign stump speech. Very typical and very American.

  495. wagelaborer March 9, 2011 at 10:12 am #

    Yeah, my sister-in-law is Ukrainian.
    She had her mother visiting her once, while we were visiting.
    She told me the story of her mother, one of 13 children, whose father favored the boys, and didn’t educate the girls. So her mother and her older sister headed over to Poland, where they started a restaurant. And then Hitler invaded.
    The next day, I met her mother. I’m not tall, but she came up to my chin.
    The first thing she said was, “I love America”. Then she told us that she escaped Russia under Stalin, because of the oppression and all.
    Really?
    Apparently there’s a private version and a public version, at least in that family.
    I’d take the stories with a grain of salt, Cash.

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  496. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 10:14 am #

    OK, Ozone –
    “Your theory needs testing. You be one of the first non-proselytizers to CFN, and we’ll see what spiritual hallucinations/manifestations pop up, shall we? ;o)”
    -O3-
    Funny stuff, indeed, I’m hoping that we are in agreement on that, at least! haha!
    Seeing as how +/- 85% of humanity professes some sort of religious faith, your theory is going to be hard to test.
    I don’t understand the “CERTAINTY* expressed by the hard-edged atheists – perhaps as personified by BustinJ. To me that certainty looks like a desire to win converts – to one thing or another.
    I know that one can believe every single aspect of Evolutionary Theory – and still have room in one’s head for faith (Faith?) or at least for agnosticism. Bustin seems to disagree. That’s what lead the discussion thread off into religion vs. atheism last week. Religion MUST learn to tolerate science – and vice versa. And for right now –
    “That’s all I have to say about that”
    -forrest gump-

  497. wagelaborer March 9, 2011 at 10:18 am #

    My mom used to hate birds, because her mom would say “A little bird told me”, when she was busted for wrong-doing.
    And then when my grandma got Alzheimer’s, she thought that the men on the TV were flirting with her.
    It made TV watching more fun, I’m sure.

  498. wagelaborer March 9, 2011 at 10:27 am #

    I don’t think that Obama is a great speaker, either.
    My husband calls it the William Shatner style of speech, halting and slow.
    But we are told that he is a great speaker! And handsome!
    Just like we are told that everyone loved Reagan!
    And so, dutifully, everyone pretends that he is a great speaker.
    And the children can scream all they want about the naked Emperor.
    In real life, no one listens.

  499. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 10:36 am #

    “And then when my grandma got Alzheimer’s, she thought that the men on the TV were flirting with her.”
    -wage-
    Should I ever be so unfortunate as to contract Alzheimer’s – I’ve always told my kids, my primary doc, my wife, and anyone else who will listen – that all it will take to keep me compliant and relatively *happy?* will be access to Xanax.
    But your story about your grandma makes me want to add access to some porn or something – in addition to my pre-arranged Xanax.
    Now that’s a joke – well, maybe a joke! hah

  500. ozone March 9, 2011 at 10:54 am #

    “I know that one can believe every single aspect of Evolutionary Theory – and still have room in one’s head for faith (Faith?) or at least for agnosticism. Bustin seems to disagree. That’s what lead the discussion thread off into religion vs. atheism last week. Religion MUST learn to tolerate science – and vice versa. And for right now –
    “That’s all I have to say about that”
    -forrest gump- ”
    =================
    Ahhhh, okay. I wondered how that came to be a bone of contention, even though I don’t agree with compulsory “must-ness” of that particular bone.
    Thanks for clarifying.
    -“shri-ump”-

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  501. newworld March 9, 2011 at 10:57 am #

    You ever notice how the “libs” stop playing the race card against whites once they are called upon it, and then try and tell us how they are supposedly color blind and never ever touch the race card?
    I think if we were given free access to Kos, within a week we could have those passive/aggressive sociopaths whipped.
    “Anti-racism” is a codeword for anti-white.

  502. wagelaborer March 9, 2011 at 10:58 am #

    I totally agree, Hillwalker.
    I actually made that same point in an earlier thread.
    But, we are told that Carter was hated for saying we should conserve energy, so everyone dutifully parrots it.
    Even though, in the 70s, I’m pretty sure that most people knew about conserving energy.
    The Depression survivors were mostly alive then, and I know that I’m not the only one who was told to shut the door, do you think we need to pay to heat the outside?
    As I said when I brought this up before, my best friend was only allowed to open the refrigerator once during dinner, so she had to know everything she needed to get. Or go without.
    I thought that that rule was excessive, but her dad wanted to save energy! And not in a green way. In a money way.

  503. ozone March 9, 2011 at 11:03 am #

    “But your story about your grandma makes me want to add access to some porn or something – in addition to my pre-arranged Xanax.” -PoC [responding to Wage]
    =============
    LOL
    “Damnit, draw the blinds, Grampy’s at it again!!
    (Throw in some herb and you’ve really got something goin’ there. …If we can still figure out how to fire up a match, that is! “Damnit, Grampy’s near burnt the place down again! ;o)

  504. wagelaborer March 9, 2011 at 11:09 am #

    Well, I guess I am an ideologue.
    The first time I realized it was many years ago, in nursing school.
    I went to a mental hospital for part of my training.
    The nurse orienting us made mention of how they used to shock people who were depressed.
    (lbendet asked me last week if I read “Shock Therapy”. I did, and the first chapter is actually about the horrors of shock therapy).
    I spoke up and said that shock therapy sounded pretty barbaric to me.
    Well. She went ballistic! Started screaming about the damn liberals like me who stopped such a great treatment.
    I didn’t even know that there was such a history. I didn’t know I was taking a “liberal” position. I thought that I was just taking a humane position.
    But that’s when I realized that I’m a natural born liberal. I don’t believe in torture, or murder, not matter what the rationalization.
    It’s definitely my world view.

  505. ozone March 9, 2011 at 11:11 am #

    “The Depression survivors were mostly alive then, and I know that I’m not the only one who was told to shut the door, do you think we need to pay to heat the outside?” -Wage
    ============
    The version I heard was: “Shut that door; you’re letting all the bought air out!”

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  506. MarlinFive54 March 9, 2011 at 11:12 am #

    Looks like real, live Civil War going down in Libya today, with airstrikes, artillery and infantry attacks.
    We know who Khaddafi is, but does anybody know who the rebels are? I find it rather humorous that many of the people who’ve complained about Iraq all these years are eager to get involved in Libya.
    Two nights ago on AM radio I heard Farrahkan discussing his ‘good friend’, Khaddafi.
    Anybody remember back in 1991, Jesse Jackson haranguing President Clinton to send US Forces into Somalia ‘To feed the People?” Then came the debacle portrayed so well in the film ‘Black Hawk Down”.
    Where are all those weapons coming from? Its hard to determine from the news video whether they are Chinese or Russian. The fighter aircraft are definitely Russian.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  507. wagelaborer March 9, 2011 at 11:13 am #

    I don’t believe that you prefer to live in ignorance.
    Here is a video giving a history of the genocide in Indonesia in 1965, when Obama and his step-daddy and mom arrived.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14517.htm
    Maybe you think that teaching basket-weaving makes up for the atrocities. I don’t.

  508. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 11:19 am #

    Vlad, you said something so worthwhile that K-dog complemented you on it – all except the last sentence. You responded to kdog with nothing like appreciation. Rather, you attacked k the dog for daring to question even ONE SINGLE SENTENCE of your thoughts.
    Here they are again:
    “Cohort of morons is right. My sense of George Will and people like him is that while they think they are defending the American Way they are really just defending the benefits of their class. Some of them know it and some of them don’t. Will I believe, does not. In any case, individualism is something to worry about on a full stomach. If we wanted to fight for it, that should have been done when they started to ship our jobs overseas and when they started to bring in high tech workers from South Asia. Of course the rot of illegal immigration was already established, but that only hurt the poor so nobody cared – certainly not the “Liberals”…”
    -vlad-
    Vlad, we could quibble over “Liberals,” but since you put it in quotes, there’s no need. The essential truth of you post stands correct. Social class is the 800 pound gorilla of American life that no one will address. Class and race get all bollixed up together – to create most of the disastrous outcomes of public policy in the US.
    ==============
    But, then you add this one last sentence:
    “”…liberals, whose criterion of social justice was based on not having White skin.”
    That’s all it took to negate your message in the eyes of almost all the readers on CFN.
    That’s all it took to lead you to attack KDog.
    ===============
    You admit, Vlad, that questions of race “torment” you. (I think is was the word, “torment,” that you chose.) Are you familiar with Shakespeare’s Henry IV?
    There is a line between honor, duty, and obsession that must be respected. Obsession – will never accomplish a desired goal.

  509. ozone March 9, 2011 at 11:22 am #

    “I find it rather humorous that many of the people who’ve complained about Iraq all these years are eager to get involved in Libya.” -M55
    ===============
    I get kind of a nervous cackle out of that too.
    Do you suppose any type of blowing-shit-up “help” would be offered if there wasn’t any black goo under that blasted wilderness? Oh, how I wonder. ;o)
    Hey! Here, for our edification, is a short guide on how it all works…
    http://www.rall.com/rallblog/comics/2011-03-09.jpg

  510. MarlinFive54 March 9, 2011 at 11:26 am #

    Wagelaborer;
    Do you remember the film, I think it was called, “A Year of Living Dangerously”? Is that the time period in Indonesia you’re talking about? It was Australian, made about the same time as “Breaker Morant”, and Gallipolli. One of Mel Gibson’s first movies.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

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  511. k-dog March 9, 2011 at 11:26 am #

    And while talk over the color of peoples skin obscures important issues at CFN Brent crude climbs to $115.08 a barrel and U.S. climbs to $105.20 as oil storage tanks burn in Libya.

  512. MarlinFive54 March 9, 2011 at 11:32 am #

    Ted Rall, LoL. Good stuff, Ozone, good stuff!
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  513. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 11:37 am #

    People against Iraq “…are eager to get involved in Libya..”
    -marlin-
    These people – Obama, Hillary, McCain, Rush, Hannity – are all out on a limb and triangulating like crazy.
    Don’t you think that almost ALL this posturing is either for internal US political purposes – or else is directed toward the UN – to get some UN cover for US action?
    Also interesting how easy it is to name a RW “pundit” who impacts the National debate. Very difficult to name a LW “pundit,” of similar power – at least from where I sit.

  514. wagelaborer March 9, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    Well, prog, why do we need to haul so many people so far?
    Old6699 is right. If we live next to where we work, and if we can shop there also, then we don’t need to travel so much.
    Right here in my little town, you can see the “progress” of US building.
    In the center of town, although the mayor has spent a lot of effort knocking most of them down, there are still buildings from the late 1800s and early 1900s. They have storefronts on the bottom and apartments on top.
    Some preservation society has placed old pictures around the Town Square, and you can see the bustling life of the old town. Those were hotels and livery stables, and drug stores. The train stopped in town square in those days.
    There used to be hundreds of trains going through daily.
    Around the center of town are the 50s suburbs, ranch houses with big lots, still within walking distance of the town center.
    Then there are the McMansions, with the giant lawns, too far out of town to easily walk.
    This was zoning and government support for road-building, still going on, with Obama’s “shovel-ready” plans.
    It can be reversed easily.
    Just stop the subsidies and raise the gas prices.
    People will make their own decisions, and, remarkably, they will involve moving closer to work and building downtown on all those vacant lots.

  515. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 12:03 pm #

    “Just stop the subsidies and raise the gas prices.”
    -wage-
    100% concur, Wage. And the way to raise gas prices is with a tax on fuel that starts off low and then slowly increments.
    Proceeds of the tax go to research and applications that are rigorously PROVEN to lead to sustainability.
    =================
    Glad we could come to such an important agreement before lunch, Wage.
    Now, you call Obama and I’ll call Boehner-
    We’ll have this problem solved by dinner time!

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  516. wagelaborer March 9, 2011 at 12:05 pm #

    I never saw it, Marlin. Could be the time frame, though. Although there were massacres in Indonesia in 1975 and 1999, also.
    And who was against the Iraq invasion but for attacking Libya?
    Certainly not me. I don’t believe in killing people in order to save them.
    If you mean Obama and Clinton, you’re wrong.
    Obama gave one speech against attacking Iraq, and surfed it into the White House.
    Clinton voted to give Bush the power to invade.

  517. wagelaborer March 9, 2011 at 12:13 pm #

    So why is it considered a US right to tell Quaddafi what to do?
    Why is it considered a US right to attack other countries, whether for “human rights” (bullshit, especially from a country now torturing Bradley Manning) or oil?
    Cash, come on. You think that the US is a weakling. Then why does everyone assume that the US has the right to intervene in other countries business?

  518. montsegur March 9, 2011 at 12:24 pm #

    MarlinFive54 stated: “I’d say we as a nation had more balls back then — look at our fathers–but I talk to young vets when I go to the VA clinic in Winsted. Some had been deployed 2, 3 times. They’re still in their 20’s. They got balls, too.”
    ===================================
    Marlin, my take is that it is not a question of individual courage. Given a good cause and an obvious threat, I have no doubt that Americans would willingly fight.
    Korea was fought with a drafted army, although there was a fair number of volunteers between 1950 and 1953 as well. The big change since then is that the policy makers have become shy of casualties — to an extraordinary extent for a country openly operating as a world power.
    Thus, even though the military is well trained, the unwillingness to take many casualties means that operations in Afghanistan will either go on for a very long time (doubtful) or end in either stalemate or defeat. The attitude to casualties also drives initiatives like using robots to bomb (well, fire missiles) at suspected targets.
    I’m not aware of historical examples of other great powers that were so sensitive to casualties*. I suspect, based on my reading of history, that this situation will not last much longer. America will either have to accept more casualty-intensive wars or largely give up its role as a great power in the world.
    The $64K question here is, why is a world power with a volunteer-based military force so sensitive to taking casualties? My guess is that the policy makers are still wary of Vietnam-scale public protest, but I admittedly have not done any deep thinking on this topic.
    * – Great Britain was casualty-averse during the campaign in NW Europe during 1944-45, but I’ll spare everyone a lengthy discussion of that here.
    Cheers

  519. Qshtik March 9, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    we are told that Carter was hated for saying we should conserve energy
    ===========
    Sure, there was the cardigan sweater fireside chat, there was the John Wayne/Rambo smash-up in the desert failed rescue mission, but those things and others all begin to gel so that insignificant shit begins to grate. For me it was the Jawjuh accent.
    I’ve always been sensitive to accents. I’m constantly screaming mockingly at the TV when, for example, that southern senator on the finance committee (can’t think of his name) who talks out of one side of his mouth (another huge peeve of mine) is being interviewed on CNBC.
    Or Rick Santelli with his Chicago accent (heeyappy birthday to you, heeyappy birthday to you). And don’t even get me started on the NY Jewish accent, like Gary Kaminsky (CNBC) with the word “mawkit” or Mayor Bloomberg’s nasal lisp. Oh God, my skin crawls (not literally but you know what I mean).
    I can’t even stand to hear my own Jersey accent when I’m played back on the phone.

  520. montsegur March 9, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

    Wagelaborer said: “Then why does everyone assume that the US has the right to intervene in other countries business?”
    =========================
    Hi Wagelaborer. Something I find odd is how even European powers seem to wait for the US to handle things militarily, or at least take the lead, even when bad things are happening on their own continent (thinking of the Balkan wars in the 1990s). I believe your use of “everyone” meant (perhaps) “U.S. citizens”, but it seems to include many other westerners as well.
    Cheers

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  521. Qshtik March 9, 2011 at 12:31 pm #

    Just thought of it … Senator Shelby … drives me bat shit.

  522. jackieblue2u March 9, 2011 at 12:34 pm #

    I’m with ya on this one. Alzheimers is not an option, know what I mean. I’ve worked with Alzheimer patients, they go on and on and on, and it is rediculously criminally expensive to stay in a hospital, and it is a crime what they pay the people doing the work.
    We put animals down, why not people. I say this out of experience and compassion. 7k a month. Insurance doesn’t pay. Quality of life Zero. Wrecks families. Extremely difficult on everyone, except, but even sometimes the patient. A nightmare.
    Thank God for XANAX.
    Quality of life for Alzheimers’ patients, that are really really gone is zero. And it cost a fortune.
    I hope this doesn’t sound cold.
    Also:
    In Oregon they have the right to die law.
    Something to think about.

  523. montsegur March 9, 2011 at 12:37 pm #

    Jackieblue2u stated: “In Oregon they have the right to die law.”
    =============================
    I’ve always found the interference of the law and the state in an individual’s choice of when to die oppressive. While I can imagine situations in which a “right to die” law could be abused, society as a whole needs to get off the trip about telling people they have to hold out to the bitter end, no matter how miserable it may be.
    Cheers

  524. wagelaborer March 9, 2011 at 12:50 pm #

    There’s a big difference between the individual right to commit suicide, and euthanasia by the State.
    I agree that people should have the right to end their lives, but not others. Especially not for monetary reasons.
    You’d probably not really like the results.

  525. Qshtik March 9, 2011 at 1:01 pm #

    Do you suppose any type of blowing-shit-up “help” would be offered if there wasn’t any black goo under that blasted wilderness?
    ============
    Yeah, like whats-iz-name said on a YouTube about Iraq: would anybody give two shits if their main export was broccoli?!
    BTW O3 re “shri-ump” mentioned in an earlier post, have you ever noticed Texans pronouncing it as “srimp?” I spent 5 mos in Wichita Falls, TX while in the Air “Farce” … near drove me crazy … “srimp” that is.

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  526. Patrizia March 9, 2011 at 1:03 pm #

    I agree.
    It is dangerous letting the people decide of others´life.
    It could easily allow murders in the name of Eutansia.

  527. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 1:03 pm #

    “Just thought of it … Senator Shelby … drives me bat shit.”
    -Q-
    Exactly how long of a drive is that, Q?

  528. montsegur March 9, 2011 at 1:13 pm #

    On more of an urban planning theme, one thing I’ve noted in trips to the U.S. is the apparent optional nature of having sidewalks in some urban areas. It looked like the decision to put down a sidewalk was undertaken by the developer concerned rather than being a response to a planning ordinance.
    I’ve approached my trips to the U.S. in an odd-bird way; I try to find hotels near my business destinations so that I can walk to work. Because hotels and “business parks” often are near each other, I’ve been able to do this on the last three trips. Usually a restaurant or two nearby as well.
    The walking, though, is an adventure. Sidewalks are often simply missing. In dry weather, this isn’t bad, but if it rains — I’m either in the mud or taking chances in the roadway (which so often seem to be four-lanes in which people want to drive 50mph or more these days). Crossing the four-lanes is also an adventure — if one is lucky, there is an island to dart onto.
    The fun part was mentioning to work colleagues that “I walked to work”. Some reacted with concern, asking if I wanted a ride back to the hotel!
    So, even in an urban set-up that is walker-unfriendly, it has been possible to mostly be on foot, although admittedly this has only been possible because the place I’m staying (hotel) tends to locate near places of work and places to eat.
    Cheers

  529. Qshtik March 9, 2011 at 1:14 pm #

    People will make their own decisions, and, remarkably, they will involve moving closer to work and building downtown on all those vacant lots.
    ================
    All quite true. But please don’t tell Old/8M he’s right. He’s NOT right. He makes it sound like it can be accomplished in the blink of an eye. It CAN’T.
    What you describe CAN BE accomplished but it will take decades or even generations.

  530. wagelaborer March 9, 2011 at 1:16 pm #

    But I would like to point out the monetary reasons to NOT kill people.
    The US is spending a billion dollars everyday to kill people in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq.
    A BILLION dollars a DAY.
    And, back home, telling people we can’t afford schools, hospitals, public unions or Social Security.
    We can, however, afford Homeland Security and prisons.
    There is something very, very wrong with this picture.

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  531. montsegur March 9, 2011 at 1:19 pm #

    Wagelaborer said: “There is something very, very wrong with this picture.”
    ================================
    Yes, priorities are indeed skewed.
    Cheers

  532. Cash March 9, 2011 at 1:22 pm #

    I won’t bother. You know what, your needling is dull and your insults need work. They aren’t particularly vicious or entertaining.
    As for the dreary, plodding and vast assemblage of verbiage you and your sidekick blew out on evolution, it’s uninformative (do you two clowns think nobody reads?), unenlightening (nothing unique or original), unimpressive and unconvincing.
    And Bustin: transposons my ass. You make me laugh. Bandying jargon like a total goof. You know Bustin, there’s nothing standing between you and social success besides a bar of soap and hot water. And bringing your wallet. Now buzz off.
    S(itation) N(ormal) A(ll) F(ucked) U(p) – An affectionate pet name from your in-laws? Maybe your boss?
    SNAFU and Bustin: new names on the scroll past list.

  533. Qshtik March 9, 2011 at 1:24 pm #

    But that’s when I realized that I’m a natural born liberal. I don’t believe in torture, or murder, not matter what the rationalization.
    ===============
    Now see, there’s your problem … we conservatives got no problem with any of that 😉

  534. Cash March 9, 2011 at 1:47 pm #

    Cash, come on. You think that the US is a weakling. Then why does everyone assume that the US has the right to intervene in other countries business? – Wage.
    Who do you mean by “everyone”. I don’t. Most folks on this side of the border don’t either. Most Muslim folks don’t either.
    But I take your point. A lot of people with an economic stake in the outcome want this thing resolved. So they look to the US. Why? Maybe a triumph of hope over experience?
    Given the unfolding debacle in Afghanistan and the botch in Iraq, not to mention the fiascos in Vietnam, Lebanon and Somalia, I think a lot of people need to see what’s plainly under their noses. Mainly that the US is a great power in name only, that the gigantically and ruinously expensive US military is a worthless pile of high tech junk.
    Montsegur made a good point in his post of 12:24, the US is extremely casualty averse. Why this is you can debate until the cows come home. Everyone you ask will come up with a different reason. But it remains a fact. I think that Montsegur is right, in fact, I think it’s already happened: the US, in effect, has had to give up its great power status because of this aversion.
    How this plays out in world affairs we’ll see. If you look at the events of the last hundred years, a lot of them came as a complete shock to the people living in those times. In 1911 no one had a clue what awaited them 1914-1918. If you had told a German living in 1911 that an Austrian corporal would become German dictator he’d laugh. Neither do we have a clue today. Do we know what’s coming 2014? Or 2039? Not a chance.

  535. montsegur March 9, 2011 at 1:54 pm #

    Cash asked / wrote: “If you had told a German living in 1911 that an Austrian corporal would become German dictator he’d laugh. Neither do we have a clue today. Do we know what’s coming 2014? Or 2039? Not a chance.”
    =============================
    Sobering thought.
    Cheers

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  536. Patrizia March 9, 2011 at 2:01 pm #

    Cash, in principle the future depends on us.
    We can be very creative, we can create works of art or we can create bombs.
    We can chose.
    It is true, we are just a drop in the Ocean, but the Ocean is made by trillions of drops.
    They say ours is the “Communication Era”.
    We should start by communicating the right ideas.

  537. Cash March 9, 2011 at 2:03 pm #

    I look at things this way Wage, you assess the credibility of stories based on the cues you get from people telling them and whether they square with other things you’ve heard. You can smell out a liar and so can I.
    It’s a choice you make. If you want to believe something about Stalin that fits with a particular view of the world, be my guest, it’s your right. I may vehemently disagree and think you’re terribly misguided just as you think I am on many issues. So be it.

  538. wagelaborer March 9, 2011 at 2:05 pm #

    More on Obama’s mama-
    Quote:
    Time magazine described it this way: “Communists, Red sympathizers and their families are being massacred by the thousands…Army units executed thousands after interrogation in remote jails. Armed with wide-blade knives called parangs, Moslem bands crept at night into the homes of Communists, killing entire families, burying the bodies in shallow graves. The murder campaign became so brazen in parts of rural East Java that Moslem bands placed the heads of victims on poles and paraded them through villages….Travelers from these areas tell of small rivers and streams that have been literally clogged with bodies, river transportation has at places been seriously impeded.”
    Pretty horrific by any standards, even genocidal ones.
    Yet, Ann Dunham Soetoro, according to all of the MSM hype and Obama’s whitewash of an autobiography, was teaching English as an American Embassy employee while her husband, Lolo, an Army Colonel under the monster Suharto was busy working as an oil company geologist cum government liaison.

  539. montsegur March 9, 2011 at 2:11 pm #

    Patrizia stated: “We should start by communicating the right ideas.”
    ========================
    While I have always been amazed by the internet as a tool for communication, I only belatedly realized that it was a double-edged sword. Undesirable ideas are just as easy to communicate using the ‘net.
    So we end up at the eternal question: who gets to decide what is a “right idea”?
    I’m not sniping at you, Patrizia. Just pointing out how messy these decisions get.
    Cheers

  540. montsegur March 9, 2011 at 2:15 pm #

    Wagelaborer, re: Indonesia, while I understood the desire of the Indonesians to run their own nation, it was particularly sad to see how quickly they went on the aggressive nation-state path — particularly at cost to Timor (IIRC) and New Guinea.
    Cheers

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  541. Cash March 9, 2011 at 2:17 pm #

    I meant to ask, you referred to “Maple Leaf Up”. Interesting. Makes me think you’re one of us. You don’t have to say, I understand if you want to preserve your anonymity.
    About My Lai. I read an account of that massacre many years ago. They said that Calley’s unit was sent to Vietnam and spent months in country without once seeing the enemy but suffering several dead and a bunch of wounded from snipers and booby traps.
    They said that on the day the massacre happened Calley’s unit was told that because of a festival the villagers wouldn’t be there, that whoever was there was a VietCong. Wrong intelligence in other words. So Calley and his boys went in and went nuts shooting everything that moved.
    So there’s no excuse for the total failure of leadership and decision making on Calley’s part on that day. But the failures seem to be many. Intelligence failure for one. Another failure is the wisdom of sending these guys into a jungle where they were basically target practice for the enemy. And then failing to understand that these guys would become ticking time bombs ready to kill indicriminately to take out their hate and frustration.
    I don’t know the truth of the situation. There’s probably been as much nonsense and lies written about it as truth and probably just as much covered up. Probably many more incidents similar to this but covered up also. I wonder how much has been learned and incorporated into military thinking as a result of Vietnam.

  542. Patrizia March 9, 2011 at 2:18 pm #

    There is not the right idea.
    There is the right host for it.
    Very often we understand the same thing in different ways.
    It has a lot to do with our culture.
    Nevertheless the Internet is a wonderful invention, if used in the right way and for the right purpose.
    That is why it can be so uncomfortable for some people.
    You can kill a man, but you cannot kill his ideas.
    That is the big problem for the wrong doers.
    And the Internet can really give an idea immortality, because it is the right way to pass ideas from one brain to the others.

  543. asoka March 9, 2011 at 2:18 pm #

    “Montsegur made a good point in his post of 12:24, the US is extremely casualty averse.”
    I disagree.
    This reminds me of something Patton said: “Your job is not to die for your country; your job is to make some other sumbitch die for his.”
    The USA is not casualty averse. The USA has inflicted over a million casualties in these last ten years.
    That is the purpose of the USA military: to break things and kill people. DoD is a wasteful, anti-life, government agency that should be abolished.
    The Pentagon should be converted to more productive purposes instead of paying people to view pornography. http://bo.st/b9GZli

  544. montsegur March 9, 2011 at 2:23 pm #

    Cash, I’m not a Canadian. Thank you, though, for the thought. I’ve always enjoyed my visits to Canada.
    I have some awareness of what the 1st Canadian Army did in the Second World War. And my maternal homeland strongly appreciates it.
    Cheers

  545. asoka March 9, 2011 at 2:24 pm #

    Patrizia said: “You can kill a man, but you cannot kill his ideas.”
    ========
    Pay attention, RT.
    Killing everyone on your short list will accomplish exactly nothing to stop their ideas … though it may get you three squares in a small cell for 30 years.

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  546. montsegur March 9, 2011 at 2:26 pm #

    Asoka stated: “We should start by communicating the right ideas.”
    ======================
    I meant casualty-averse in the sense of U.S. forces taking casualties. I made no comment concerning casualties on the opposing side. Thank you for the opportunity to provide clarity regarding my comments.
    Cheers

  547. Cash March 9, 2011 at 2:26 pm #

    I fully agree. I know I’m just a drop but that’s one reason I spend so much time ranting on this site. Montsegur make a great point about nonsense being just as easily transmitted.
    I know exactly what he means. I’ve seen “group think” in action in my life in business. Seemingly reasonable and rational people believing the completely impossible or implausible and acting on those beliefs with disastrous consequences. And then they say how did this happen and then they say, well we were all swept up in it. Happens over and over. How did the most educated country in Europe come to deem it necessary to exterminate millions of people based on their supposed racial inferiority? Blows your mind.

  548. montsegur March 9, 2011 at 2:28 pm #

    My mistake — I meant to write:
    Asoka stated: “The USA is not casualty averse.”
    vice:
    Asoka stated: “We should start by communicating the right ideas.”
    Cheers

  549. Cash March 9, 2011 at 2:28 pm #

    And my maternal homeland strongly appreciates it. – Mont
    That’s really nice to hear.

  550. Cash March 9, 2011 at 2:41 pm #

    Mont,
    He knew exactly what was meant. That’s his MO, taking the clear and unambiguous intent of a post and twisting it. He’s done that to me a multitude of times.

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  551. Vlad Krandz March 9, 2011 at 2:41 pm #

    As Turk might say, Oh Snap! You really can dish it out bro. I’m amazed I’ve never gotten a serving. You must really like me. As Boxer in Animal Farm says, I must work harder.

  552. montsegur March 9, 2011 at 2:45 pm #

    Cash, re: My Lai.
    To be open, my knowledge is limited here. But I know one thing. William Calley should never have been commissioned an officer in any army and most certainly should never have commanded infantry in counter-guerrilla operations. The man was simply not fit for that position.
    This is not attack Calley from a comfortable position some 40 years later. It is a simple statement of fact. The haste in commissioning officers by the U.S. Army during the Vietnam War (once again, the military establishment not understanding just how much of a “starring role” the infantry plays in casualty figures) was a key factor in the occurrence of the My Lai massacre.
    I am also not convinced that there were not other My Lai’s that are not well-known because there was not a similar level of press coverage. Vietnam, to put it bluntly, was, among other things, a disaster for good order and discipline in the U.S. forces.
    But, as I mentioned, my knowledge on these matters is limited. These comments are all best taken as personal opinion.
    Cheers

  553. wagelaborer March 9, 2011 at 2:48 pm #

    But don’t you think that he had an excellent point, Cash?
    That as long as Americans aren’t hurt, it’s OK to kill millions of other people?
    Because that is clearly the underlying assumption in the claim that Americans are causality averse.

  554. SNAFU March 9, 2011 at 2:59 pm #

    Howdy Progressor, I have agree with Q about Shelby. However; the sound of his voice is overwhelmed by the lack of content in his thoughts for me. Total distance to drive me bat shit, roughly 22 inches. 🙂
    I am whittling down the story of my life whereby I ended up as, gasp horror, an atheist, for you. I would hate to drive RT to the point of renewing his Ritalin prescription with a multiple page post. Probably have it later this evening. Have to make a run to town to stock up on steaks, chops, chickens, burger and whole wheat bread for my canine house mates before the next round of snow sleet rain initiates this evening. I like snow and cold however getting a winters worth from the second week of Feb to now is a pain in the ass.
    SNAFU

  555. montsegur March 9, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    Wagelaborer stated: “Because that is clearly the underlying assumption in the claim that Americans are causality averse.”
    ========================
    Wage, I’ll jump in here since a comment of mine prompted Asoka’s statement.
    I would not be so sure that Americans think it is okay to kill millions of others.
    I think the situation, because of the relative isolation of U.S. citizens from the realities of war, is even worse: they imagine, to an extent, that these wars can be won without thinking about the casualties (of either side) as long as the casualties are not pushed into their faces.
    At the end of it all, do Americans prefer that the “other side” take casualties rather than their own forces? Well, yeah. That goes without saying. That is tribal behavior, which no one (or at the least: very few has gotten very far away from.
    I don’t like the implications of this (that is to say: death and destruction) any more than you, Cash, or Asoka do.
    Cheers

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  556. Vlad Krandz March 9, 2011 at 3:03 pm #

    Yes I have noticed. Evidently their consciousness is split like an iceberg – with most of it underwater or unconscious. When confronted with their contradicitons and unfairness, they go “above water” and mostly deny they said what they said or meant what they meant. Only when you get to where Liberalism is going – Communism – do you get people who are willing to admit the whole deal. And then, even then, they mostly don’t. Full grown now, the subterfuge becomes conscious strategy – all the more effective for the long period of uncoscious incubation that it undertook. Communists are master liars and could probably pass polygraph tests becasue of their mental illness/training as Liberals.
    Religiously Liberalism/Communism has parallels. The Northwest Indians used to compete in generousity. Called a Potlatch. They would even kill their own slaves to show what great men they were. Likewise Liberals compete in betraying their own People and in favoring others. Also they compete in gaining Volunteer Positions in Charities if they can’t afford to start their own. Charity to poor Whites doesn’t rank here at all.
    The Negrophillia (irrational overestimation of the capacity and worth of Negroes to the detriment of White worth and capacity) is particulularly bizarre. A guy I worked with once had almost become an Anthropologist. He told me certain Central Americann Civilizations worshiped Mongoloid Idiots as Divinities or as some kind of divine messengers. The Cult of the Negro is something like this. Indeed even the Conservatives have noticed the “Magic Negro” phenomena in Pop Entertainment. Whoopi Goldberg has made a career of playing parts where she is morally superior to stupid, clueless, or evil Whites. And she obviously believes all this too. Now Liberals would admit that many Negroes aren’t as glorious as Whoops and Martin and Malcolm and the One – AND THAT’S ALL OUR FAULT. THEY ARE DIVINE – EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM. WE MUST WORK HARDER SO EACH CAN BECOME AS WORSHIPABLE AS THESE.

  557. Vlad Krandz March 9, 2011 at 3:26 pm #

    Yeah aren’t we supposed to broke or something? Is this some kind of game – how many Middle Eastern Countries can we invade and occupy all at the same time? Future Historians, if any, will be amazed at our absolute inability to mind our own business – as our Founding Fathers wisely imlored us to do. They also attacked Tripoli to crush the pirates but they didn’t stick around trying to make Libya into America or Arabs into Europeans.
    Besides the Oil, the motive seems to be Globalism in general. Obama as President of the World and America the first Nation. The Libyan rebels will implore us to come in and then hate our guts once we are in. Every innocent civilian killed will be an indictment of us as Kufar Killers who need conversion. Al Quaeda must be praying for our entry and laughing up their sleeve when they aren’t praying.

  558. asia March 9, 2011 at 3:27 pm #

    So O’s Mama and Arriana Huffington have something in common.

  559. k-dog March 9, 2011 at 3:27 pm #

    “as long as Americans aren’t hurt, it’s OK to kill millions of other people?”
    The prevailing attitude is probably a function of gas prices. I doubt full acceptance of rape plunder and murder won’t be reached below $7.50 a gallon. I exclude freethinkers in my definition of full acceptance, we have a few here, not many.

  560. asia March 9, 2011 at 3:28 pm #

    Natives were brought to Europe [circa 1890?] and if not worshipped, venerated.

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  561. BeantownBill March 9, 2011 at 3:31 pm #

    Religion, obviously is based on faith (I believe because I believe), whereas science is based on evidence (I have an idea, and I think it’s correct because here is the proof). So religion and science can’t be compatible as they require very different thought processes.
    I became an atheist because I don’t see the clear evidence that there’s a god. When that evidence appears, I will gladly reconnect with God. But you all know it’s impossible to prove a negative (God doesn’t exist), so atheism vs. religion will continue to be a debate until more evidence either way is compiled.
    I never try to convert others’ religious beliefs because that’s none of my business.

  562. asia March 9, 2011 at 3:33 pm #

    ‘The Nazis proved to be useful scapegoats’
    Wake Up…the Nazis were not scapegoats.
    hiel hitler!

  563. BeantownBill March 9, 2011 at 3:50 pm #

    Let’s face it, the Wild West never died, it just sublimated into other forms, like drive-by shootings in the inner city and in some of its suburbs, general disregard for the law, land-grab attempts in other lands instead of the open range, and big business market manipulations instead of robber-baron railroad building.
    It’s our heritage of the frontier mentality that we’ve perpetuated. We’ve conquered the American continent and there are no other desirable lands left there to exploit, so we’ve turned our attention to other parts of the world. Can anyone deny that Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan are the 21st century’s new American Wild West?

  564. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 3:51 pm #

    “I never try to convert others’ religious beliefs because that’s none of my business.”
    -btb-
    Well said, Bill – I feel the same way. I speak up on CFN to defend Agnosticism, relaxed updated Jeffersonian Christianity – whatever you want to call it – some may take what I do as a Defense of All Religious Faith – but that’s not what I intend
    Big difference in defending something vs attempted conversion to something.
    =================
    And SNAFU – share your life story and I’ll promise to read it. But please don’t share just in an effort to prove your Atheist bona fides.
    Horrible things have made people more Atheist.
    Horrible things have made people more Religious.
    Horrible things have been done by the Religious.
    Horrible things have been done by Atheists.
    *change “Horrible” to “Good” = no change in logic
    But I’ll be looking for you, SNAFU.
    Also interested in that PPMG analysis.

  565. Cash March 9, 2011 at 3:52 pm #

    No I don’t he had a good point.
    I think Montsegur replied much better than I could have.
    I hope I’m wrong but I think you may have the opportunity to see the US decline to a state where the rest of the world finally wakes up to the fact of US impotence.
    I personally think the US should have pulled back militarily from the world a good ten years ago.
    But. There’s always a but. The US of necessity will vacate the world stage. But there are other powers at work snd they will fill the gap. Now you may think the US is evil. But I think you may have a good chance to get an up close look at the face of REAL evil.
    China is run by one nasty regime. They have no time and no use for such trivialities as human rights and no regard for human life. Civilian casualties? Collateral damage? To the Butchers of Beijing the more the better. For several decades successive Chinese leadership regimes spent their time and energy killing and oppressing Chinese. They haven’t had the industrial or financial wherewithal until recently to exercise their military reach much beyond their borders and I pray that they don’t. You may have noticed that they’ve been building a huge blue water navy and a modern air force.
    Maybe I misunderstand where you’re coming from but I sense that, you and a lot of other Americans for reasons of your own, devoutly wish that Americans get kicked in the face. There are people out there that will gladly oblige. Even had Americans been angelic do-gooders in the world they’d still get hammered. Why? Because people are nasty, there’s human nature to contend with, the urge to conquer and dominate.
    Many Americans think the US can be scratched and dented but not brought down. I think that’s an overly optimistic assessment. Times change.

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  566. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 3:59 pm #

    PPMG??
    Should be PMPG
    Passenger – Miles Per Gallon
    =============
    Also, Bean Town – I’ve got to say that your excellent explanation using quantum physics for the Origin of the Universe – in response to my asking, “Why is there something – instead of nothing?”
    That explanation came very close to looking like an attempt to refute even the POSSIBILITY of god, God, or gods. (by whatever name or Names)
    I know “pure” science has to leave that part out for publication – doesn’t mean scientists can’t leave room for doubt.
    We may just have to agree to disagree somewhere along in here.

  567. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 4:14 pm #

    “Let’s face it, the Wild West never died, it just sublimated into other forms”
    -btb-
    True enough, Bill. But remember two things:
    1. Entertainment – going back to radio and the very early TV shows – perpetuated the Wild West mythos. (I know – does our entertainment shape our behavior as a Nation, or does it simply reflect our behavior as a Nation?
    2. Our genetics – compared to other humans – EVERYONE in the US has exhibited a genetic tendency toward – malcontentedness, which is a word I may have just made up.
    But the Pilgrims, the English, the Irish, the African slaves sold by other African tribes, right up to the illegal and/or legal immigrants of today – every single one of *us* comes from a gene pool that was *slightly* less happy where we were in the first place and therefore slightly more likely to immigrate.
    No wonder the rest of the World thinks we’re nuts.
    We may have a genetic predisposition to crazy.
    hah!

  568. ozone March 9, 2011 at 4:16 pm #

    “BTW O3 re “shri-ump” mentioned in an earlier post, have you ever noticed Texans pronouncing it as “srimp?” I spent 5 mos in Wichita Falls, TX while in the Air “Farce” … near drove me crazy … “srimp” that is.” -Q.
    ======================
    Yes! Heard that in Germany from a Texan in the USAF, when our son was stationed there. A real “ear-catcher”, that one. ;o) (Kind of a little tongue-whistle on the “s”.)
    Another one that shouldn’t bug me (but really does): im-po’d’n[d], from the mouths of Southern lawgivers. It couldn’t possibly be all that important, if you can’t even bother to pronounce the word in a somewhat recognizable fashion!! Yaaaaaaaaa! Yes, proudly sounding like the most ignorant, corn-pone hick ever imagined in swaggering “service to their constituents”. (Okay, whew, rant done; I’m so traumatized.)
    Sure, we understand there’s other stuff to focus our attention on, but….
    I figger the drive to bat-shit is about 150 yds. into the rough, depending on wind conditions. Thwack.

  569. Vlad Krandz March 9, 2011 at 4:17 pm #

    Don’t try to get out of it by putting the onus on me – you have to disgraced yourself by denying Amren the right to have its Conference. And all because Powerful Blacks didn’t like it. So much for your comittment to the First Amendment. Such race pandering can not be bourne. I threw you an easy underhanded pitch and you missed it. And now you throw the bat at me. And again, I judge you far more harshly than others since you had to privledge of growing up in the Rural South – one of the last places in America to have any trace of actual indigenous culture left. And more: you actually knew men who believed in our Race and the greatness of the Real America – not this hodge podge imperialistic nightmare they’re creating. And you reject all of it as your pathetic attempt at analysis of the Amren issue showed. Watching you was like one of those old 1960’s sci fi computers sputter when given a problem without a solution. And there is no solution since you reject a priori the correct data and the Constituion as it relates to this issue. You are a flawed unit who should be sent to the shop to get reprogrammed.
    Race isn’t just one issue among many – along with Energy and Farming, it’s one of the main trunks of the Tree. The other issues are branches that come from these. When Buck or You ask me to diversify, you guys obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. You can’t change the People and still be the same Nation or Civilization! If the Irish went en masse to Haiti, and the Haitians to Ireland, Haiti would be the new Ireland or land of the Irish. And Ireland would be the new Haiti or land of the Haitians.
    And when you call youself a “loyal son of the South” it really turns my stomach. You are a Judas to that culture, the Real South that is. There was a segment on Sixty Minutes once: grifters who call up the Elderly to trick them out of money. This guy was terrifying an old woman, threatening to take her home if she didn’t send another check. You could hear the terror in her voice. I’d like to take a base ball bat to that guy’s head. I feel very strongly about you too – not angry like this but just sickened; your betrayal makes me despair of being a human being. So how about you not write to me anymore and I’ll leave you alone too? I have no desire to harass you – you repulse me too much for that. Sorry but that’s the truth. It gives me no pleasure. A little strong? Sir, I remind you of the stakes involved: the future of our Nation, the White Race, and even fate of the World.
    For the record: I just went back and looked – I was not responding to k dog. It was a general take off from Mr Kunstler using his “cohort of morons” as a seed thought.

  570. BeantownBill March 9, 2011 at 4:20 pm #

    To further use the Wild West analogy, maybe we ought to re-direct our adventuristic energy from foreign lands to a new frontier: Space (with apologies to Rodenberry). Lack of a frontier leads a country down the road to decay and national anomie , while the existence of a frontier makes the blood rush, and pumps in new vigor.
    We do have terribly important issues to deal with on our planet, and we must deal with them now. But wasting the trillions of dollars we spend each year, and funding a space program with only $20 billion, is extremely short-sighted. It wouldn’t take a lot more money as a percentage of the annual budget to foster an expansion into space, and still be able to put effort into insuring our own survival by whatever means necessary.
    I’m not proposing this as a “space nut”, but as a way to invigorate ourselves. Do the older people here remember how we, as a nation, responded to Sputnik and the Apollo program in the ’50’s and ’60’s? We need a new frontier very badly.
    (BTW, I’m not suggesting we build trillions of skyscrapers on the sun, but rather a rational, measured approach to expanding our horizons.)

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  571. old6699 March 9, 2011 at 4:22 pm #

    It doesn’t matter what the number is, it could be trillions or trillions of trillions, the fact is both money and work are essentially social relationships, they are social contracts, social engagements, social behaviors. Since money and work can be infinite according to how people engage each other, what they decide to do, what is decided collectively, there is no limit and no problem, and given the present level of technology and knowledge in all fields (after all, all those coolege studies and graduates in the last 50 years have produced a huge body of work explaining how economies, societies and sociologies can work, how many possibilities are present if they are desired, etc.) there is no resource scarcity.
    The only scarcity is political and in the imagination. Most in the first world cannot imagine any other possible living arrangememt that is even just 1 % different from the USA of 1960: we are all (USA, EU and JAPAN) essentially stuck with a model of life and economy that is way past its time.
    We can’t accept the fact that we have a huge idle labor pool worldwide (globalization works in both directions, in the direction of the employers and corporations but also in the direction of the common slob that can buy cheap crap at WalMart, etc.) , we have the possibility to construct hundreds of skyscrapers (as “communist” China is currently doing and they still are considered third world), we can automate factory work with robots, etc.
    The real problem is simply cultural – psychological: we are stuck with a stone age mentality of competiton and everyone against everyone else, when it is really no longer needed or necessary: what is necessary today are huge collective programs and projects, space colonization, further automation of factories, hobby factories to keep millions of idle workers of all ages (from 15 to 95 years old, and you will find thousands and thousands at both age limits willing to work for fun) occupied for the common good, for an abstract – metaphysical goal of mind over matter that is more valuable than just your personal McMansion and the fact that you personally have more money than most of the common slobs.
    Now, back to the future: we will develop pills that will eliminate all thoughts (relaxing and emptying your minds), will kill any and all emotions (therefore no more fighting and sticking it to each other, an emotion free life), pills that will erase all your memories, we need the robots to do all our living and thinking and emotioning and working, we can live in a complete void of metaphysical bliss with no thoughts, emotions or memories. And then we will have all the huge Instant Technological Singularities where minds will be hardwired differently, we will pour all kinds of wild chemicals in the ball of meat that is the brain, we will create trillions of emotions – sense organs -virtual worlds – virtual experiences (which are real anyways since information is only relationships) and so on.
    And trillions of skyscrapers, trillions of computers, highways across galaxies, giant cadillacs travelling across jupiter, and more and more, Sun split in two, we open the sun and grap all its energy (there goes down the toilet your puny peak oil theories), and giant universe size brains experiencing technological singularities. Go for it obama, CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN, GO FOR IT MAN, JUST DO IT !!!
    Now, sitck and tootsie and all you f*tards, f*weeds, morons, sue me and blow me.

  572. k-dog March 9, 2011 at 4:26 pm #

    “For the record: I just went back and looked – I was not responding to k dog.”
    Thank You, please don’t.

  573. k-dog March 9, 2011 at 4:36 pm #

    You say,
    “Now, back to the future: we will develop pills that will eliminate all thoughts (relaxing and emptying your minds), will kill any and all emotions (therefore no more fighting and sticking it to each other, an emotion free life), pills that will erase all your memories,”
    What? we need pills for that? Aren’t reality TV and Walmart enough, we need more?

  574. Vlad Krandz March 9, 2011 at 4:37 pm #

    Are you a Nazi? America produces much strange fruit. Nazi Harold Covington says that when he used to dress up in costume, he saw Blacks dressed up as Nazis too. How does such a thing come to pass? Rockwell explained that some anti-Castro Cubans wanted to join. He looks “ok” by the thirty second test. He comes back next week with his brother in law who is as black as the ace of spaces who wants to be a nazi 2. That’s one way anyway. Maybe you just like the look. Liberals are ALL obsessed with it. It can’t be permanently thwarted or stymied since it is built into Nature just as much as Yog Sothoth.
    When I posted on Amren alot, I used to get fan mail from people who admired my work. This Costa Rican guy sent me picture of himself asking if I thought he looked White. I said no. He was crushed. Being the soul of Compassion, I tried to console him saying that he should like himself for what he was. He replied that he might not be a Mestizo but actually part Moorish from the Conquista centuries ago. I sagely replied that it well might be. He started sending me more pictures from his childhood and even with his shirt off. I felt he was getting gay and didn’t respond again. Perhaps it was just a cultural difference! He seemed like a nice guy but I just didn’t/don’t understand why he did that. Homey don’t play that.

  575. BeantownBill March 9, 2011 at 4:40 pm #

    Cash, I agree with a lot of what you say, but I do disagree with a few of your points. The U.S. isn’t going off the world’s stage yet. If we do, it will be because the world’s in terrible shape – a lot worse than it is now. And we’re still potent, we’re not at the international viagra stage. Our military is still very powerful, even if there are circumstances where it can be defeated. Thousands of nuclear weapons kind of beef up the national muscles.
    I’m not responding as an American jingoist. America has gone seriously astray, culturally, morally, ethically and environmentally. But we will continue to have great influence in the world; I’m not sure that’s a good thing.

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  576. k-dog March 9, 2011 at 4:45 pm #

    “Being the soul of Compassion”. Advocating white supremacy at every turn. So what are you like when you are cruel?

  577. Vlad Krandz March 9, 2011 at 4:54 pm #

    I’ll take that as an invitation to talk. Surely you know not what you say. Have you read “War is a Racket”? The Founding Fathers told us to stay home. How far indeed the Rupublican War Mongers have strayed from this! Just as far as the Pacifists and Liberal Communists!
    Heard Snooze Ormond on the Today show this morning. She has a new book out helping to ease Americans into peasanthood but without a hovel to call one’s own. Get ready to work till you are over 80. No vacations – learn to enjoy where you live. No job changes – learn to enjoy what you do. Renters all! They have achieved their goal, a peasantry divorced from the land and completely at their mercy.

  578. myrtlemay March 9, 2011 at 4:55 pm #

    Regarding your last statement (admonition?), I respectfully decline. I would, however, be very much obliged if you could share with us what you are smoking (price range, area of availability, etc.) Thanks in advance!

  579. Bustin J March 9, 2011 at 4:55 pm #

    Poc said, “I don’t understand the “CERTAINTY* expressed by the hard-edged atheists – perhaps as personified by BustinJ. To me that certainty looks like a desire to win converts – to one thing or another.”
    Its pretty simple, PoC.
    When humans were few, and their knowledge little, they made up stories. What formed were hypotheses about reality.
    As time marched on, the collective knowledge exploded as observations arose that performed a pruning effect on the field of competing hypotheses about reality.
    As time went on more and more of these hypotheses were destroyed by observation. (Science performs this function whereas assorted Gods of the past had it out through the battles of their pawns. Karmic rule: if you lost, your idea of God lost).
    This religious pruning had the effect of narrowing the field to an essential, singular concept of God. As science rose to replace religious explanations of natural phenomena, it challenged the paranormal explanations of the origin of phenomena. The structure of science strengthened as the process beautifully excised the individual bias from the process of the evolution of knowledge.
    Today, religion still exists in the only place it can- the obstinate, crazy, foolish backwaters of the human intellect which refuses to accept reality, and embraces illogic. A Zen concept, to be sure. And perfectly amenable to a pleasant, well-rounded life.
    But one has nothing to do with the other, for, when the rubber meets the road, there is zero evidence of any kind of God, paranormal reality, or afterlife.
    You describe my atheism as militant, and it is. I think religious belief and supernatural thinking is a sort of mental illness. I think that its systematic impression upon children is criminal. I think religion has always basically held humanity back, from realizing a more imaginative, truthful future.
    We are already well within a phase of human development where respect for facts is critical to determination of out future survival.
    Agnosticism, to me, is mere ignorance. A waffling acceptable in the 18th, 19th, and perhaps some of the 20th centuries, but, going forward is entirely unreasonable.

  580. k-dog March 9, 2011 at 4:59 pm #

    “I’m not responding as an American jingoist. America has gone seriously astray, culturally, morally, ethically and environmentally. But we will continue to have great influence in the world; I’m not sure that’s a good thing.”
    Your not sure if it’s a good thing? When the earth is drained of resources and all that’s left are the natives of Papua New Guinea will you be sure then?
    Jingoism, I love that word by Jingo.

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  581. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 5:01 pm #

    Before God, Vlad! –
    You most certainly did respond to Kdog after he complimented you on your post. This is what you said to him at 2:15.
    “Of course you don’t agree: according to Liberalism, Whites aren’t human and have no rights. Their only purpose to take blame and work off their “debt” until they die. And by definition, the debt can never be paid. Yet still we are supposed to try. You know you really should re-think this. I mean don’t you ever get tired of just hearing what you already believe?”
    -vlad-
    Vlad I can agree with 75 to 80% of what you say – pretty consistently. You are saying that you have to have 100% agreement or you shut down the dialog – that’s not right.
    ================
    And the words you are putting in my mouth are absolutely NOTHING even slightly resembling what I actually SAID to you concerning AmRen in Charlotte.
    Nothing like what I said, whatsoever.
    ===============
    Haven’t had a chance to read your full post to me in detail, yet. I’ll see if I can work up another response besides this one.
    =============
    Let me just ask, in a seriously friendly sort of way, Vlad. Do you really not remember writing that angry response to KDog @ 2:15? If you don’t, that might explain a few things about some of your writings on here.

  582. BeantownBill March 9, 2011 at 5:01 pm #

    Old6699,
    I do hear what you’re saying. I think you have a great mentality. And I agree with a lot of your points.
    The issue is that you leap from point A directly to point Z. You are on a website of very hard-nosed, practical people. In order to have these bloggers pay more attention to your posts, you need to go from point A, to point B, to point C, etc.
    While I am scientifically-oriented, I too have been guilty of responding harshly to your posts, and I’m sorry about that, since I can appreciate how you think. All I’m saying is go easy and you will be more effective here, IMO.
    As Don McLean sang in “Vincent”, “You suffered for your sanity” and “the world was never meant for such as you”.

  583. k-dog March 9, 2011 at 5:06 pm #

    You have to admit, Snooze Ormond is telling it how it is. I have a gut feeling she has read the ‘Long Emergency’. Nothing to base it on; it just seems to me she would read it.
    As for her advice, I don’t need it, I am all about staying out of debt.

  584. BeantownBill March 9, 2011 at 5:06 pm #

    Actually, there’s a lot to be said for Papua New Guinea.

  585. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 5:06 pm #

    “Agnosticism, to me, is mere ignorance. A waffling acceptable in the 18th, 19th, and perhaps some of the 20th centuries, but, going forward is entirely unreasonable.”
    -bustin-
    So to do “science” religion must die, 100%?
    To be a “scientist,” one must be atheist?
    Even an agnostic – must be cast away from “science?”
    To move humanity forward, religion must die?
    Is that an accurate summation of your beliefs?

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  586. Vlad Krandz March 9, 2011 at 5:10 pm #

    Wrong. Not White Supremacy but White Separatism. My first correction of you – the first of many no doubt. You can reduce the number by fighting not against me but against “yourself” or to be more accurate, your own conditioning. I love my race – just as Jefferson, Adama, Frankling, Washington, et al did. I don’t blame you – I damn the media and the whores called teachers who did this to you.

  587. myrtlemay March 9, 2011 at 5:20 pm #

    Vlad said:
    “Get ready to work till you are over 80. No vacations – learn to enjoy where you live. No job changes – learn to enjoy what you do. Renters all! They have achieved their goal, a peasantry divorced from the land and completely at their mercy.”
    I tried to find work @80, but could find no takers. Seriously. While I miss not having a job, I probably couldn’t stay awake for a full shift. I think they have a solution for this in Japan. I recall a documentary on PBS on the workforce in Japan. Workers, young and old, sleep dormitory style at the corporate work site. This eliminates the need for workers having to commute, which saves on gas and time. Meals are readily available via vending machines. I’m not sure how much the corporations dock their workers for the “free digs”. Factory uniforms, as well as the upkeep, are deducted from any real wages earned. Since many factories in Japan run 24/7, windows are no where to be found in the housing compounds. I can’t remember how the showers work, but I’m guessing it’s similar to the YMCA I go to. Workers unlucky enough to be offered sleeping compounds can nonetheless rely on subway coffin-like beds, which fold up, in much the same way as the old Pulman car beds used to. Could be the wave of the future here in the U.S.? Maybe Olds6669 isn’t all that off on things after all?

  588. k-dog March 9, 2011 at 5:27 pm #

    I didn’t responded to the (KDog @ 2:15) post by Vlad because I thought he must have me confused with someone else.
    I’m not a liberal and I’m not a conservative. I shun both labels. Left libertarian appeals to me some but the danger of being confused with a right Libertarian appalls me. If I must choose a label I’ll choose freethinker.
    His diatribe about the poor oppressed whites is not worth responding too and as I do not see color I would not respond anyway.
    As getting tired of just hearing what I already believe my beliefs are evolving and improving all the time.
    Age can bring wisdom or despotism, the choice is yours. I choose wisdom.

  589. myrtlemay March 9, 2011 at 5:30 pm #

    I seldom listen to JHK’s podcasts, but this past week’s one on “Leisureville” is fairly interesting. Never did see the sense in segregating old folks from the general population, albeit in this version, a fair degree of opulence. How unfortunate it would be if I could not share my pearls of wisdom with my kids and grandchildren? Both for them as well as me.

  590. k-dog March 9, 2011 at 5:31 pm #

    I love my race too. HUMAN

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  591. Vlad Krandz March 9, 2011 at 5:34 pm #

    Old Man you have to realize that all this was promised to us back in 1920’s – high tech Utopia, the end of compulsory work, etc. We were enticed or forced to move off the farms and into the cities to work in the factories – and then we were betrayed. The reality turned out to be exactly what the movie Metropolis portrays. No accident – the Elite wants it this way. If everyone was rich, they wouldn’t be the Elite anymore. You yourself have recognized the existential primacy of the Ego in human affairs. And it’s not going to change for the next few milleniums.
    I love science fiction and some of your ideas. For example: there is such a thing as the solar wind. Why not have “yachts” with sails of a square mile and sail the solar sytem on the solar wind? Instead they have turned NASA over to a Negro hack with the mission of outreach to Islam – pandering to them telling them how much they have contributed. We’re not going anywhere out there until these people are overthrown.

  592. k-dog March 9, 2011 at 5:37 pm #

    White Supremacy is white Separatism, there is no difference. But don’t think for a minute I’m going to get sucked in an argue this point with your hate filled ass.

  593. k-dog March 9, 2011 at 5:50 pm #

    Myrtlemay,
    “How unfortunate it would be if I could not share my pearls of wisdom with my kids and grandchildren? Both for them as well as me.”
    Isn’t it odd that some people actually think differently?

  594. Vlad Krandz March 9, 2011 at 5:55 pm #

    Sounds horrible – much like what the Chi-Coms do. The coffins aren’t a bad idea at train stations though. I think Japan is actually going more with robots. Their birth rate is below replacement now so it’s either that or bring in aliens. The Japanese have chosen the path of life and we the path of death. Of course at some point they’ll have to get their birth rate up. I have no doubt that they will. They are quite over populated so they have a good few decades to figure it all out. Since we chose alien invasion as a way to keep ourselves comfortable we have no time left at all since the aliens are breeding on our dime.
    The Japanese brought in Koreans to work and they can’t stand them – their closest genetic relatives. Wisely they realize that it only gets worse from there. We are incapable of such simple reflection.

  595. Vlad Krandz March 9, 2011 at 6:01 pm #

    Not it isn’t. White Supremacy usually meant having Black slaves – not separatism at all.
    Human Race. Ha, Good one. I never heard that before. To be for everyone is to be for no one. Charity begins at home. After that it works by Concentric circles: extended family, friends, community, city, nation and so on. The “world” or “human race” or “Africa” only come much later. And obviously for most people it will never be an issue. To try to make people feel guilty about Africa is despicable. Yet it has been done.

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  596. george March 9, 2011 at 6:08 pm #

    “Before retiring to a casket packed with clods of my native soil, I tuned in the Sunday night late news to find the political struggles of Araby banished from the screen. Charlie Sheen was all over the place, his defiant chin thrust forward as if auditioning for the role as our next president.” Excellent analysis of the current mood here in the land of happy motoring. Who was it that said that history repeats itself, first as a farce and the as a tragedy? As a naive eleven year old I remember being confused by the energy crisis of 1979 and wondering how a revolution in Iran could cause so much mayhem here at home. After all, America was the most advanced nation on earth boasting the world’s highest standard of living and a military machine second to none. Why the hell were people waiting hours in long lineups for a few gallons of gas tying up busy intersections all across the fruited plain? Why were angry truckers blockading interstate highways from Florida to New York to protest the high cost of diesel fuel? This was America, not the Soviet Union! And to top it all off the American tv viewers were treated to ongoing spectacle of the Iran Hostage Crisis. Why was so much network airtime being devoted to a crisis half a world away in a nation I’d never heard of before? Of course, I later learned the Iran Hostage Crisis was a much-needed distraction from the problems at home, much like the ongoing antics of Charlie Sheen. Yes, history repeats itself only this time there’s no Ronald Reagan waiting in the wings ready to restore Americans’ child-like hope and optimism.

  597. Lara's Dad March 9, 2011 at 6:09 pm #

    Wow, Jimbo is screening comments.

  598. Bustin J March 9, 2011 at 6:15 pm #

    Poc: “”Agnosticism… going forward is entirely unreasonable. -bustin-”
    “So to do “science” religion must die, 100%?
    To be a “scientist,” one must be atheist?
    Even an agnostic – must be cast away from “science?”
    To move humanity forward, religion must die?
    Is that an accurate summation of your beliefs?
    YES
    Unequivocally, religion must die.
    How do we get humanity to save themselves when they are seduced by the idea that something else is going to “save” them?
    How are we going to fix the problem of living on this planet without destroying it if they are seduced by the idea that this world doesn’t matter?
    How are we going to engender the volition to make decisions and judgments in accordance with solid ethical precepts to mitigate the threats to our survival if we are pressed to accept irrational directives from absolute moral authorities?
    The bottom line is that transcendentalism, supernatural thinking, and any kind of God be it vindictive, wrathful, or benign, is going to run counter to the development of self-sustaining societies of rational adults.
    You might think of religion as the glue that holds societies and individuals together. I see it as a binder which keeps us from developing coherent ethical systems. Religion and its insidious dominance is something that is thrown off in stages as a culture evolves.
    As we go forward, religion again stands in our way. Its influence is pervasive and its army of true believers leaning on the accelerator toward their “end-times”. Every day thousands of children are threatened with eternal damnation or having their genitals mutilated in some fashion.
    To me, agnostics are just pussies.

  599. Vlad Krandz March 9, 2011 at 6:16 pm #

    Kudos to right wing investigative journalism. They crushed Acorn, Planned Parenthood, and now NPR. Defund it already. And then Planned Parenthood. Once the people know the truth, they will reject these alien ideologies paid for with their money.
    http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/catholic-league-defund-npr/2011/03/08/id/388790?s=al&promo_code=BD36-1

  600. Qshtik March 9, 2011 at 6:27 pm #

    You are a flawed unit who should be sent to the shop to get reprogrammed.
    ==============
    And get some spine while he’s there … and stop using phrases like “I tend to agree with your post 70%(?) to 75.43% or so (maybe) hah. That was intended as a joke .. haha.

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  601. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 6:31 pm #

    “Unequivocally, religion must die.”
    -bustin-
    This means no one who goes to church –
    no one who honor’s his family’s Faith –
    no one who is not a pure declared Atheist –
    has any hope of understanding or impacting the sacred field known to you as science –
    Well alrighty then, civilization is well and truly doomed – sh*t happens.
    ============
    “To me, agnostics are just pussies.”
    -bustin-
    Bustin, what do you have against these wonderful cavities – that leads you to use this term as an insult?
    Did you not come out of one?
    immaculate conception? or hysterectomy?
    hah!
    Should we, perhaps, declare this debate over?

  602. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 6:41 pm #

    “That was intended as a joke .. haha.”
    -Q-
    I am so very glad that you qualified that as a joke, Q.
    Otherwise I would tend to regard you as a vile and vindictive obsessive-compulsive old man.
    If that were true, I would tend to enjoy ripping off one of your arms and beating you to death with it.
    No joke.

  603. MarlinFive54 March 9, 2011 at 7:02 pm #

    I needed to buy some metric wrenches to work on that old British Motorcycle of mine so decided to check out Harbor Freight Tools, located in Berlin, Ct off rte 15, the infamous Berlin Turnpike.
    Is any place more depressing on this earth than a 2/3 abandoned 1970’s shopping center on a cold overcast New England afternoon in March? This one is surrounded literally by squares miles of paved parking lot, telling me that when this place was built there were very high expectations. Today I saw only a few cars, including my truck. And across the street the out of business Saturn dealer where I bought at least 3 Saturns. Peeling paint, papered over storefronts, crumbling cement block, store signs broken and unlighted … I thought, so this is how it all turned out … this is what we abandoned our farms and factories for. Now what? Maybe nothing.
    I took the freeway home to Farmington thru New Britain, past the countless empty factories that litter the city. Even with gas at close to $4.00 per gallon here countless autos still pound the roads in an endless stream of traffic. It all seems hopeless and I’m thinking this will never come to an end until the last drop of gas in the world is pumped out and burned up
    Another arson fire in New Haven last night killing 3 people this time.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  604. Bustin J March 9, 2011 at 7:23 pm #

    POC proclaimed: “This means no one who goes to church -no one who honor’s his family’s Faith – no one who is not a pure declared Atheist – has any hope of understanding or impacting the sacred field known to you as science -”
    This is not what I meant. Science tells us about that is true about reality; insofar as a person believes in the unreal and has a casual attitude toward scientific logic, he is an enemy of science and will probably go on to do damage to the sacred: which is the Earth and its life-support systems.
    Scientists, per se, are not off the hook just because they are scientists. Plenty of researchers have no guts to proclaim any kind of activism. Plenty of research is committed in the service of sheer monetary gain at the expense of the environment and human survival. Don’t get me wrong here, I’m just thumping religious nuts, not giving scientists a pass. Most research is conducted as if the results are value-free, at best. I’m fully aware of the complicity of scientists who have delivered WMD into the hands of You ‘n’ Me- in the form of and SUV or must-watch TV.
    “Well alrighty then, civilization is well and truly doomed – sh*t happens.”
    That is exactly the stakes with which we players are playing with. People have a sense of unreality about the consequences of their actions or a sense that far-flung predictions are just abstractions.
    The current movement against this dangerous inclination is infused with a fatal concept of religious accommodation. That leads to apathy and ineffectualness, since faith in our salvation, placed in the hands of any imaginary divine being is just a repeat of a losing strategy seen throughout history. Whenever someone starts thinking “God is on our side”, they are in danger of losing the battle. God and god-believers are not on anyone’s side but their own. Wretched things have no volition.
    “To me, agnostics are just pussies.”
    -bustin-
    POc: “Bustin, what do you have against these wonderful cavities – that leads you to use this term as an insult?”
    I mean “pussies” in terms of their “cat-like” traits. As in, “here, pussy pussy.” The cat, who, while your house is being burgled, and whose owner is stabbed repeatedly, yawns.

  605. myrtlemay March 9, 2011 at 7:23 pm #

    “Isn’t it odd that some people actually think differently?”
    No, not really. I’ve visited many of these “communities” and have found that the residents (transplanted friends of mine, btw) are or seem to be quite happy, content, well-adjusted, and mostly in very good shape physically and mentally. I only state my opinion, in that I would feel very much isolated without my family. Perhaps I’m misguided for thinking so. I guess what I meant to say is that such life is not my cup of tea. I like being around young(er) people. People my age can be such a bore! My grand self excluded, of course 🙂

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  606. MarlinFive54 March 9, 2011 at 7:24 pm #

    Bustinj;
    Speaking of the church, are you familiar with Robert Conquest book, “Harvest of Sorrow”. Its about the Stalin’s ‘terror-famine’ in the Ukraine 1931-1933, and the loss of 7 million lives. He has some interesting things to say about the fate of the Church and religious people during the anti-kulak actions of the period. It wasn’t pretty. The best part is when he describes the Bolshevik “Committees of the Godless, actually NKVD operatives, who went into countless villlages, stripped the churches of vestments, silver and gold, burned them down, and machine gunned any peasants and priests who tried to interfere. Hundreds of thousands died this way. Millions more were sent east in cattlecars in to the yawning Gulag. Synagogues and Jews got the same treatment.
    BustinJ, that’s what I call atheism with muscle! Stalin was an atheist who didn’t only talk the talk, he had the power to walk the walk. Pick up that book, BustinJ. You can carry it around campus and into the faculty lounge like some people carry a bible.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  607. JonathanSS March 9, 2011 at 7:26 pm #

    BeantownBill, Vlad, et al, you sure are being reasonable to Old6699. Not withstanding his grandiose thinking (splitting the sun in two and grabbing it’s energy?), he ends his recent post with great hostility to Q & tootsie. I fear some mental breakdown in his future with the way he demonstrates his thought processes in his writings. I would urge him banned, but he would turn up with a new handle (I think he was 8M last yr.)

  608. myrtlemay March 9, 2011 at 7:29 pm #

    “Is any place more depressing on this earth than a 2/3 abandoned 1970’s shopping center on a cold overcast New England afternoon in March?”
    Yep. Try Buffalo, New York, circa 1980. Visiting in-laws who “lived” there. No jobs, no $, no heat (oil crisis, doncha know), folks walking around in parkas and blankets in their living rooms and kitchens, cuddling up to small space heaters over hot (but not for long) coffee. Good times. Back to the future?

  609. Vlad Krandz March 9, 2011 at 7:59 pm #

    Huh? Read your post again – you fear for his wellbeing and you want him banned. Will his being banned help his mental health? He wants to talk, let him talk. Sometimes he makes good points. One of the great things about Cluster Fuck: no heavy handed monitors and no shortage of electrons. I find writing my thoughts and people responding to me very life affirming. I assume Old feels the same.

  610. lbendet March 9, 2011 at 8:03 pm #

    Marlin,
    The issue of Stalin’s many purges isn’t a function of atheism with muscle, it’s more a function of an ism–communism in this instance that is taken to it’s most puritanical extreme. But in Stalin’s case it could have been an entirely different system that he would have found the same expression of paranoid destruction. He could have just as easily enforced religion with the same vehemence if he rose to power in a different time and place.
    Stalin was a sociopath who took every one of his purges all the way. He eventually destroyed the original revolutionaries guard too, as he betrayed them, his family and anyone that he imagined got in his way.

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  611. Buck Stud March 9, 2011 at 8:06 pm #

    “And again, I judge you far more harshly than others since you had to privledge of growing up in the Rural South – one of the last places in America to have any trace of actual indigenous culture left.”
    The region of the privileged culture you cite is know known as “The Diabetes Belt”. Rather ironic, since it’s the one region of the country that is pretty much united in their opposition to “Obamacare”– which they ignorantly confuse with socialized medicine.
    A group (in general) who benefit from the largess and generosity of the more liberal states in order to rail against gubmint sponsored health-care. Not exactly a culture worth emulating if you ask me: insolent, intolerant, ignorant, in short–Non-Culture. And damn unhealthy too, which might provide some insight into the pathological culture cited by Vlad–healthy body = healthy mind.
    And apologies for the broad brush.

  612. Bustin J March 9, 2011 at 8:10 pm #

    Oh, that old canard. Stalin was simply following the religious example of the day. Whoever the offending group is, machine-gun them. The divine right of Kings over the lives of their subjects was the unsubtle pretext behind Stalin’s methods. Likewise, Hirohito’s living God status was pretext for Japanese domination of Indochina. Hitler used Christianity to further his regime. Blah blah blah.
    When I say atheism is at war with religion, I propose waging that war through dialectic argument. It is simple enough to say that machine-gunning them all would take too much time and energy. But then again, so does arguing with irrational people. Hmmm… going to have to have a toke with the other Dr’s in the faculty lounge and get back to you…
    Second post down, some good analysis: http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=1697

  613. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 8:11 pm #

    “I mean “pussies” in terms of their “cat-like” traits. As in, “here, pussy pussy.” The cat, who, while your house is being burgled, and whose owner is stabbed repeatedly, yawns.”
    -bustin-
    Ooooh, that kind of pussy – which would also probably then lap up your spilled blood while waiting for the police to arrive and feed it.
    =================
    Actually, I’ve got nothing against that kind of pussy either – although felines are even MORE of a strange or alien life form than is the type of pussy to which I though you were originally referring. hah!
    ==================================================
    Ok, all kidding aside, Bustin – what I’m hearing from you is that you, as an atheist, think that absence of religion would be a net positive for the world – TODAY. Maybe, maybe not – but your contention is impossible to prove.
    I also hear you saying that Atheism by itself could make an improvement on morality and ethics as promulgated by religion.
    That’s one is provable – by providing links to some overriding atheistic philosophy that reveres the environment, controls human populations, etc.
    I will suggest that such a philosophy – if ever developed, and you better hurry – could do far worse than to have an *outreach program* to the world’s religions.
    You seem to suggest a sort of atheism that burns its bridges to the world’s religions.
    If time is short –
    then bridge burning is counterproductive.

  614. k-dog March 9, 2011 at 8:13 pm #

    Damn something else we agree on:
    “Charity begins at home. After that it works by Concentric circles: extended family, friends, community, city, nation and so on.”
    My version goes, family friend and community. After that if you have anything left over everything else.
    Now about: “To be for everyone is to be for no one”
    Does this mean the founders of all major religions did not believe in anything?
    You know JC, Mohammed, Shakyamuni, the Buddah those guys.

  615. San Jose Mom 51 March 9, 2011 at 8:19 pm #

    I’ve got a candidate for “eyesore of the month.”
    It’s the Soumaya Museum building in Mexico City. Google it if you dare! Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim’s fast growing art collection is being housed there. Red alert, it was designed by his son-in-law, who is apparently a Gehry wannabe because there isn’t a straight line anywhere. It’s top heavy and as you approach it, you’ll think you’re going to be clobbered by a gigantic plastic wave.
    Jen

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  616. Buck Stud March 9, 2011 at 8:30 pm #

    ” The Diabetes Belt” is the inevitable outcome for “right-to-work” states. As wages and benefits are inevitably slashed in conjunction with rising health-care costs, people begin avoiding medical costs. Since this is a nation wide trend, we’ll all be in Deep South Doo-Doo pretty soon.
    And yet, klutzes like Krandz are still citing the evils of “socialism”, and others, the evils of unions.
    I would pay good money to go back in time with one of these right-wing-pillsbury-dough-boy cultural warriors and into an Iron Workers bar. Dough Boy then begin speechifying on the evils of unions.I would then request that the juke box be turned down so I could listen to a different sound of music: that of the toliet flushing a piece-O-crap down the drain.

  617. k-dog March 9, 2011 at 8:38 pm #

    “Wow, Jimbo is screening comments.”
    My contention is that he pays just enough attention to our comments to maintain an appropriate level of disgust. Occasional outbursts of screening if true supports but doesn’t prove my point of view.

  618. Buck Stud March 9, 2011 at 8:49 pm #

    And since more and more people will be unable to afford health insurance, those that are still able to will have to pick up more and more the slack. Eventually many of them will also be unable to afford the cost of insurance, joining the the ranks of the uninsured and intensifying the downward spiral.
    And yet, confused and dizzy souls wrapped in the spirit of ‘Ol Dixie’ will emerge from this nightmare whirlwind still taking the stupefied swipe against “socialism”.
    It’s pathetic, and it’s tragic.

  619. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 9:04 pm #

    “PoC – I hate you because you don’t just love white people” (roughly funny paraphrase)
    -vlad-
    “PoC – I tend to hate you because you use the word “tend.”
    -Q-
    “And again, I judge you far more harshly than others since you had to privledge of growing up in the Rural South – one of the last places in America to have any trace of actual indigenous culture left.”
    -buck-
    Et tu, Buck – I guess you just hate my region with a broad brush. So I’ve hit the trifecta of hate in a single evening on CFN – yeehaw and giddy up!
    Buck, I can tell you are not a sociologist. The reason the South is anti-union has to do with race, above all. Our po’ whites were made to have a greater fear of “blacks” and “communists,” than they had of “Poverty.” This made our po’ whites “anti-union.”
    Now, I’ll grant you that the “diabetes belt” has something to do with poverty and lack of medical care. It also has something to do with culture, air conditioning, and diet. And it may have to do with the South’s large and widely dispersed black and hispanic populations – with their genetic predispositions to diabetes, etc.

  620. Buck Stud March 9, 2011 at 9:09 pm #

    “America produces much strange fruit.”
    For once, I will have to agree with you Vlad Krandz. In fact, just today I was reading about a ‘White Supremicist’ superstar. Now how fruity is that?

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  621. Buck Stud March 9, 2011 at 9:30 pm #

    ProCon,
    Do I need to be a sociologist to interpret election night results for oh say, the history of the nation? It’s pretty clear, in general (there’s that word again) where the Deep South stands on social and cultural issues.
    I’ve tried very hard to emphasize the in-general tone of my opinion. So yes, there’s a lot to despise about the ethos of the Old South that still produces a fair amount of deleterious permutations in our current world. And it’s very evident in the way you wear your southern pride that you have something invested in this history. Any sleight or criticism of the South and you’re defending quicker than a Confederate soldier sign-up scene from Gone With The Wind.
    Nonetheless, I enjoy your posts and respect your intelligence and opinions. And who could ever hate the Terra Rosa soil of North Carolina?

  622. myrtlemay March 9, 2011 at 9:44 pm #

    LOL, I don’t have a horse in this race, but I think the old man is from GEE-ORRJAH, not NAWTH CAROLINAH. Ain’t it all the same y’all? I mean, after awl… NawthUn VAJEENYAH yahs cross the Mason-Dixon Line, ain’t that right?

  623. progressorconserve March 9, 2011 at 10:08 pm #

    “…yes, there’s a lot to despise about the ethos of the Old South that still produces a fair amount of deleterious permutations in our current world…”
    -buck-
    Can’t really argue with you about much of that last post, Buck. I can explain a lot of things about my South, I can mourn for some of them – but I can’t change them. But, if you think the South looks strange and deleterious from wherever you are – – –
    You ought to try living here for a while –
    “Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.”
    -charles mckay-

  624. trippticket March 9, 2011 at 10:15 pm #

    The update post that got “administrated” last week and frustrated me so much is now available in an expanded and fully illustrated format.
    It’s the early spring pictorial at Small Batch Garden. Check it out:
    http://smallbatchgarden.blogspot.com/2011/03/pictorial-early-spring-2011-at-tonic.html
    Hope everyone is well, and making strides toward self-reliance, and not holding their breath for cheap rents and guaranteed salaries…although office towers on Venus do sound lovely…
    Cheers,
    Tripp out.

  625. jackieblue2u March 9, 2011 at 10:57 pm #

    I completely agree. When I posted about Alzheimers’ and Euthanasia, it sounded cold, or weird, you know what I mean.
    But in clear cases where it is obviously just a nightmare, well if it was me I say where’s the XANAX.
    I realize it would turn into a nightmare if it was up to god knows who to decide who lives who dies.
    I was thinking what I would want done to me.
    But I have seen so much pain around it all, and the financial loss, and strife in families, it IS a crime the cost of it all. so sad.
    Real Social Security is your friends and true family, family and true friends.

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  626. jackieblue2u March 9, 2011 at 11:03 pm #

    I know it is extremely complicated. I am not heartless, I never meant to come across so cold.
    I meant when the person is totally and completely gone, and I have seen it and worked intimately with it, it DOES cost major $$$, and the crime is just that, the hospitals that ‘get’ that kind of money and the help who gets low wages.
    I never meant to base that kind of decision on money being the first priority.
    These people can’t even tell you when they are in pain, or sick, etc.
    There are no easy answers.
    Time for me to do the Health Care Directive.
    Yes it would be a nightmare for the State to make those decisions.

  627. Vlad Krandz March 9, 2011 at 11:12 pm #

    I’ll give you that one: a few men can attain unto univesality. But it’s become an enforced morality here in the West and thus not universal at all. Some have called it the New England Disease but it was in England too at about the same time. Dickens talked about it with his characters like Mrs Jellaby. She was based on a real English Lady whose circle would knit sweaters for the poor children in the Congo while they were kicking the Scots off the land in favor of sheep.
    Advanced Buddhist meditators who attain universal compassion are natural. They appreciate other cultures perhaps without denigrating their own or ceasing to be Japanese, Chinese, Thai, etc. But because it’s an ideology here, people force themselves to feel or pretend to feel it – before they really do. The bad feelings have not been transcended so they have to go someplace. They are projected onto poor Whites a la Mr Kunstler and of course the enemies of the whole Enlightenment Project – the Republicans, Conservatives, and Whigs. And of course, everyone hates the Christians! But alas for you all, we are organizing and begining to fight back. And you aint seen nothing yet. I fighting right now showing you that you don’t have the moral high ground. At all. Just don’t have it. Quite the contrary in fact!

  628. San Jose Mom 51 March 9, 2011 at 11:19 pm #

    Tripp,
    I checked out the latest pictures on your website — your garden/farm is looking great.
    You should get a good price for those shitake mushrooms! I have a recipe for Shitake mushroom risotto that is fabulous!
    Jen

  629. k-dog March 10, 2011 at 12:11 am #

    I’m not going to pick apart your last post piece by piece. There is too much of that here anyway. But your post inspires me to run a short rant. A gut reaction of spewed bile.
    Poor poor whites. My atheist ways got me disowned from my fundamentalist father as a young man. At 20 I had to figure out how to go to college on my own. It was the 70’s and plenty of disadvantaged low income people of color could get loans and grants then. Not me, I was disowned but my fathers income kept me out of the game despite not being worth his investment. I remember trying to get financial aid from the university financial aid office but the black women running the place had no interest in helping the white boy and told me so. I never went back to that office.
    Instead I worked minimum wage jobs, saved my money and went to school as I could. It took forever but eventually I earned two college degrees both paid for as soon as I got the diplomas; by me. It did not happen because I sat around feeling sorry for myself lamenting about how unfair things were.
    My paradise is a world where everyone is free to achieve to the best of their ability and everyone gets a fair deal, no free rides, no unfairness.
    There is a word for it, meritocracy.
    Racism is ugly as anybody who has experienced it well knows.
    And all those jobs I took to get through school. I think being white helped, a lot.
    By the time I earned the masters degree my father figured out I was worth a shit more importantly so did I.
    Poor whites my ass.

  630. Eleuthero March 10, 2011 at 1:23 am #

    Actually, I agree that religion must die.
    To me, religion is a vestige of humanity’s
    “adolescence”. In adolescence, there is a
    need to believe in “superheroes”, beings
    with otherworldly power, and other godlike
    beings. As we age, we learn that, alas,
    there is no Hancock (Will Smith movie)
    in existence, there is no Superman, there’s
    just a bunch of mortals, none of whom can
    move mountains.
    Bill Maher, in his characteristic take-no-
    prisoners style put it this way: “Note to
    human race: Grow up or DIE”. I couldn’t
    have put it better myself. Only the Deists
    like Voltaire ever made any sense to me i.e.,
    God is busy, it’s a big universe, therefore,
    tend your own garden.
    Alas, I think most humans never become FULLY
    adult. They adopt a lot of screwball New Age
    belief systems, fad diets, doe-like credibility
    of public figures, and a belief that some great
    person will “fix everything”. Though this most
    certainly puts me in the league of Moliere’s
    “Misanthrope”, I really find about 80% of adults
    to be overgrown children.
    These overgrown children just APPEAR to mature.
    They substitute worship of celebrity for worship
    of superheroes. They live to build their own
    personal financial fiefdom just as the child is
    often consumed with his toys and his search for
    personal uniqueness in a peer group.
    Most adults want to talk about sports, weather,
    the stock market, their travel plans, or their
    next material acquisition (car, boat, whatever).
    Very few adults realize that silence is golden
    and if they’re going to open their piehole in
    conversation, they might as well talk about
    stuff that actually matters. Of course, one
    can go overboard on this and become humorless
    but the irony is that the talk-about-nothings
    that are the stock-in-trade of adulthood are
    almost NEVER amusing.
    Talk to stand-up comedians. They’re interesting.
    Most of them have to tell jokes because they’re
    crying on the inside over the seeming
    purposelessness of most of the jibber-jabber
    coming out of the not-so-silent majority.
    Most comedians can light up a room … and
    most of ’em are talking antidepressants.
    E.

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  631. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 1:34 am #

    We are a very diverse group of people, Montsegur.
    There are some of us who are very averse to killing, even those not of our tribe.
    Some who believe that if the president decrees a war, then EVERY PERSON in the offending country should be killed.
    As one woman’s sign read “Kick their ass, and take their gas”.
    Most Americans are pretty easy-going and only support mass murder if the corporate media drums up support for it.
    So you can’t really talk about a typical American.

  632. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 1:38 am #

    What do you mean, Asia.
    Ariana Huffington went to Indonesia?

  633. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 1:47 am #

    Well, you do misunderstand me, Cash.
    I don’t want America to be kicked in the face.
    I want it to stop kicking others in the face.
    I want us to mind our own business, to live in a peaceful and sustainable way, and to quit killing other peoples of the world.
    Why can’t you understand that?
    We can have a defensive military, to protect us from those big, bad, potential enemies.
    As Scott Ritter points out, we have fire departments in every city. They are well equipped and well trained.
    We don’t go out and start fires “to support our heroes”.
    Why do we have to invade other countries, “to support our troops” ?

  634. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 2:01 am #

    Yeah, don’t be so sure the natives of Papau New Guinea will still be around, K-dog.
    Although they would be the ones capable of surviving without oil, the irony, and total bummer, is that they live on top of oil. Oooh, bad luck for the natives.
    Oh, and gold and copper and natural gas and timber and fish.
    “Mineral and Oil Resources
    Papua New Guinea is richly endowed with gold, copper, oil, natural gas, and other minerals. In 2006 minerals and oil export receipts accounted for 82% of GDP. Government revenues and foreign exchange earnings depend heavily on mineral and oil exports. Indigenous landowners in areas affected by minerals projects also receive royalties from those operations. Copper and gold mines are currently in production at Porgera, Ok Tedi, Misima, and Lihir. A consortium led by Exxon/Mobil signed a final investment decision in December 2009 to begin the commercialization of the country’s estimated 22.5 trillion cubic feet of natural gas reserves through the construction of a liquefied natural gas (LNG) production facility. Interoil, an American-owned firm, opened Papua New Guinea’s first oil refinery in 2004 and is also building a second liquefied natural gas production facility which it aims to complete by 2012 with production capacity of 32,500 barrels of product per day.”
    http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2797.htm
    Game over.

  635. ront March 10, 2011 at 2:03 am #

    “The bottom line is that transcendentalism, supernatural thinking, and any kind of God be it vindictive, wrathful, or benign, is going to run counter to the development of self-sustaining societies of rational adults.”
    Bustin’, you may wish to consider some alternate attributes of God, The three you offered are pathetic. God worthy of search is infinitely knowing, eternally benevolent, the divine Beloved. God did not so much create the universe, but is creating, preserving and destroying the cosmic illusion now, beyond the limits of time and space. God Is, the Being of all beings. This is my conviction and intuitive understanding.
    I understand how you are inclined to rebel against the established religious creeds. These creeds can assist some who are ready to look at a map, but if you want to know the town, you have to make some effort about going there. The scientific/skeptic stage is inclined to not believe what sounds irrational, that which tends to be superficial and fundamentalist. One would prefer to do one’s own reasoning and rely on one’s own experiences. Thus religion is replaced by skepticism. But intellect will eventually prove itself a terrible master, but a handy servant.
    Then you can stop complaining about the “maps” and you can go to “town,” and hang out with the mystics.

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  636. k-dog March 10, 2011 at 2:33 am #

    New Guinea has oil, damn, I did not know that.
    Sucks to be them.
    I was listening to NPR a couple of years back, an English author was talking about his new book. It was about how oil totally ruins any society unlucky enough to have it.
    The people never get any wealth, the people go poor. Only a small number of aristocrats ever benefit; the distribution is always obscenely asymmetrical. According to the author this story has happened over and over.
    I am going to do a web search and find out who wrote it and what the books title is.
    Guess we better get working on a big time capsule for aliens to find then. Won’t be anyone left.
    I remember an old Si-Fi saga. Aliens come fifty thousand years after the north and south ice sheets meet at the equator.
    Aftermath of global warming I suppose, this memory is at least twenty years old. All the aliens find is a tin film can.
    A mickey mouse flick is inside.
    We can do better than that. Our story should be good for a few laughs.

  637. Patrizia March 10, 2011 at 2:35 am #

    I know what I was talking about.
    My mother died for lung cancer.
    In her last days she suffered so much, she asked me to do somenthing.
    I asked the doctor.
    They put her to sleep and I think that was the best thing I ever did to her.
    She died two days later, without realizing it.
    I hope my daughter will do the same to me, if I will ever need it.

  638. k-dog March 10, 2011 at 2:54 am #

    Could be,
    Oil: Money, Politics, and Power in the 21st Century by Tom Bower
    I’m not sure, can anybody help?

  639. k-dog March 10, 2011 at 3:09 am #

    It is tragic. I did not know Papua New Guinea had oil but I know they agriculturealized ten thousand years ago. In that time they developed three hundred languages and a incredibly rich culture. Geography left them short on technology not on smarts.
    I learned this from: Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond.

  640. Raindogs March 10, 2011 at 3:18 am #

    “Charlie offends the religion of the mainstream: the faux morality, the high-brow pseudo-ethical superiority, the secret societies and hierarchy of post-collegial corporate cults of demeanor, the plugged-in, vacant consumer whoredom of the permanent low-self esteem clique.”
    Great stuff man, couldn’t agree with you more. This is what really offends Americans; the fact that Charlie isn’t wearing a pair of Dockers while talking lamely about his alumnus’ post-season college basketball hopes.

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  641. LewisLucanBooks March 10, 2011 at 4:32 am #

    Yo, K-Dog; Sounds familiar to me too. Might even be a movie description I saw on Netflix. I did a couple of searches in Google and Amazon/books for “Resource Curse” and “Oil Curse.” Lots of stuff came up. Two possibles:
    “Curse of the Black Gold” by Kashi. Pretty specific to Niger.
    “Untapped: The Scramble for Africa’s Oil” by Ghazvinian.
    But something lingers in memory that any society that discovers oil is screwed. I’ll keep looking.

  642. Alexandra March 10, 2011 at 5:19 am #

    *Aliens come fifty thousand years after the north and south ice sheets meet at the equator. Aftermath of global warming I suppose, this memory is at least twenty years old. All the aliens find is a tin film can.*
    That’s more or less the story line of Kubrick’s, then Spielberg’s hash of it A.I.
    Though it’s the ‘artificial’ boy that’s the only one left, but the kindly visitors ‘get’ whom he be – so he’s allowed to fulfil his final and only creational wish…
    The human’s who betrayed him, and the others that raped, pillaged and consumed the global environment all long gone…
    Many Sci-Fi plots in fact deal with the ‘concept’ that once we create a better, deep thinking mind than our own limited (in most cases) monkey based ones…
    They will see quickly (what a dangerous irrelevance we are), and how we’ll need to be better managed, contained and controlled ‘farmed’ for the collective greater good, much like any other zoo based mammalian oddity, that we pay to gawp at.
    “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.”
    While the A.I. ‘minds’ get on with the more important long-term strategic applications and Gaia maintenance work…
    Having become totally sustainable, self-replicating and self-powering themselves of course…
    (No insignificant human needed)
    *sniggers*

  643. CaptSpaulding March 10, 2011 at 6:55 am #

    I see that the Wisconsin senate just passed the bill taking away collective bargaining rights from the teachers union. I’m guessing that it’s just the beginning of the right wing putsch that will engulf the nation in various ways. Time for the unions to stand together, just like the thirties, and don’t think that the union busters won’t try.

  644. MarlinFive54 March 10, 2011 at 7:10 am #

    Trippticket;
    I checked out your site. Unbelievable! What a spread! And built along scientific principles, too. Unlike what I have up here, El Toro Farms, unscientific and haphazard, like me.
    Great narrative as well describing everything which is why I call you the poet/farmer from Georgia. Did you ever read Tolstoy’s accounts of his farming efforts at his place in West Russia, long before the revolution? You have the same enthusiasm as he did.
    For me this is what CFNation should be all about. Instead of researching how I could get a better yield out of this rocky soil in an hostile climate in western CT, I’m spending my time ranting here about guns and Joseph Stalin. That’s why I never really amounted to much: no dicipline.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  645. progressorconserve March 10, 2011 at 8:01 am #

    “Poor whites my ass.”
    -kdog-
    Ah, the nuance of the English language. Kunstler, being an intelligent Jewish gentleman with white skin – references the “poor whites,” in some manner, according to Vlad.
    In truth, JHK does have a literary fixation, almost a dread, of the NASCAR watching, Cheeze Doodling “poor whites” of the Southern US. I would bet that it is merely a literary device for JHK, although I could be wrong.
    But when you say, “poor whites my ass,” kdog – I have to correct you on the implications. It’s a specific social class being discussed, not the entire, *downtrodden, beleaguered, poverty stricken, guiltless, and oppressed white race.*
    *y’all do understand some irony, correct?*

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  646. progressorconserve March 10, 2011 at 8:38 am #

    Vlad –
    I went back and looked at my most recent post to you, from yesterday evening. The only way I can elaborate on it is to examine the manner in which you suggest that I, as a “son of the South,” have betrayed my heritage by not being a white racist like yourself. I can be brief, with this examination.
    You are wrong.
    And your contention in that regard only betrays naivety and misunderstanding of Southern heritage, as you attempt to twist it for your own racist purposes.
    It is unfortunate that you want to disengage from our dialog. I may have ascribed “honor” to you prematurely. Yet, you seem to know and express some ideas that are unique and should be heard.
    ================
    But, before we go any further, do you, or do you not, remember writing that angry post to KDog at 2:15 Monday? (I’ve linked to it for this post – go take a look at it before you answer.) Or was that post misdirected, as KDog suggested – and intended by you for someone else.
    Because if you don’t remember writing it at all, you are neither honorable or obsessed – you are crazy.
    I can try to help you with that, too.

  647. MarlinFive54 March 10, 2011 at 8:46 am #

    BustinJ
    You’ve characterized yourself as an avowed atheist and have spent much time here spelling it out, stating you do not wish to physically destroy the Church or believers, but to merely engage them in ‘dialectics’, presumably proving them wrong and convincing them on the error of their ways.
    That’s to be expected , being the enlightened, academic college prof that you seem to be.
    Here’s a question you could bring up at the faculty lounge while sipping your tumbler of sherry or smoking a joint and discussing how shitty the United States is and how incredibly stupid ordinary Americans seem to be. Ask why it is, when Militant atheists actually attain political power, and gain control of police forces and army formations, and I’m thinking of Mao, Pol Pot, Himmler, Beria, Hitler, Stalin, why is the result always, always mass murder that runs into the hundreds of millions and a destruction of all, I mean all, of the churches and synagogues?
    Why would that happen, if all you Atheists want to do is engage in “Dialectics”, and get a few matters hashed out? I suspect that it always starts out as ‘Dialectics’, it ends up with Christians and Jews up against the wall and the rat-tat-tat of maxim machine guns.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  648. old6699 March 10, 2011 at 9:34 am #

    You greatly overestimate how smart people are: it doesn’t matter what the exact information content their crappy little minds are filled up with, whether it be false ideas, gods, all of the right wing metaphysical pseudo explanations and concepts (like productivity, competition, innovation, and on and on forever) or whatever you can possibly imagine, they will always be essentially irrational – violent clowns. This is due to the fact the the brain, as is presently configured, was not intended to live in a Technological Economy that is information saturated, automated, with an ever changing system of references. This brain is under stress by having to find some equilibrium between instincts and civilization, and so lashes out violently as soon as it can find any justification (the jews are bad, the blacks are an inferior race, the mexicans are invading us, you name it).
    Get rid of religion, they will invent some other thing to beat each other up for (maybe gay marriage, abortion, or football teams, whatever) even because the justification of taking sides on these or hundreds of other issues is not really some religion, it is just some irrational belief based on any kind of imaginary causes and effects they can think up of. But especially, it is the conflict, the war, the contrast, the contradicting Will Powers of individuals that get them all worked up and started, that fuel the desire to beat up the other and “win”.
    Really, how on earth can a civilization that considers itself progressed in the least, not give the basics everyone needs to everyone ? How on earth is such an obvious, simple idea, not even talked about worldwide ? How on earth is it possible that millions of people think that it is ok that other millions do not have any access to a basic house, salary and health care ? Do they think those millions are just going to go away ? Did they think that in Libya, and many other places worldwide ? Do they think people are not going to do everything they can to survive ? Just this goes to show how much deeper the problems are with most people’s minds, how stone age like they really are.
    As far as the configuration of the brains, they must be changed, engineered into new formats, new neural circuits, emotional circuits, sense organs, reality principles, memory organizations and connections (maybe inserting false memories and false reality principles, chips, virtual realities), etc. There are trillions of new brain designs on the drawing board, the Instant Singularities talked about on http://www.ilovephilosohpy.com are a starting point.
    But especially we need to start by giving everyone a very strong dose of drugs that erases all their memories, eliminates and erases all emotions and feelings (getting rid of this stone age reactor, and into an emotion free life of bliss) and especially eliminates and erases all thoughts and thought processes, all possible thoughts. A mind that is free of all thoughts, emotions and memories is a mind that is finally liberated.
    Hey, DJ, what am I smoking ?

  649. MarlinFive54 March 10, 2011 at 9:42 am #

    Old6699;
    It sounds like that you’re already sampling “a very strong dose of drugs that erases all their memories … and all thought processes, all possible thoughts.”
    What’s that drug called?
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  650. Buck Stud March 10, 2011 at 9:43 am #

    Progressor writes:
    “And your contention in that regard only betrays naivety and misunderstanding of Southern heritage, as you attempt to twist it for your own racist purposes.”
    Perhaps you can set us straight? To my eyes, you present yourself as some sort of updated version of Atticus Finch, and not only that, more or less representative of a misunderstood Southern majority. And yet, election night results, year after year, decade after decade, belie such a presentation.
    What gives?

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  651. lbendet March 10, 2011 at 10:17 am #

    Politicization of Religion–the civics war continues…
    In reference to many comments here on religion, the bottom line is that it is at once a personal matter which has become a political bulwark toward a privitization agenda at the same time. (apply Milton Friedman to Christianity and t his is what you get)
    Religion serves as a great comfort for those experiencing devastation and a great danger when combined with politics. There is a turn toward the infantiliazation of a belief system when it serves as a way to gaining material wealth instead of spiritual reflection and morality.
    No questioning, and no mature application of knowledge need be applied, only blind observance of those who use religion for political and economic power. So it has become a justification for the very worst part of our nature.
    Although I personally have not found a reason to believe in a supreme being with a consciousness, I have respect for those who rely on belief for inner strength. I say whatever gets the job done! I’m practical that way.
    Where we find ourselves today, is a scary place, where the right wing has found a way of galvanizing people to act against their own best interest.
    On 8/29 I wrote on this blog:[What they are doing is conflating Western Europe with the former Soviet Union. It’s as if they are saying that they are threatened by the fact that Europe is light years ahead of this country and they don’t want American citizens to even consider the ideas of mixed economies so now it’s time to demonize Europe.
    The form of Christianity these men espouse is that of “The Family”, a politicized group of Christianists who have recreated Jesus as the CEO and his apostles as the board of directors. I can just see Jesus sporting an Armani suit with hair slicked into a short pony tail—couldn’t you?
    They tell a hurting population, one that cannot afford their healthcare costs– that they have a choice between godlessness and Christianity. Welcome to the “Theater of cruelty”. ]
    In Wisconsin we are witnessing the agenda moving forward without compromise and it goes to the destruction of collective bargaining. This is just the beginning of an assault on the public sector as the meme is we all have to sacrifice. That’s right, folks the middle class must be dismantled for the bankers and other oligarchs who refuse to give up one penny for the good of their country.
    At the same time this is happening there are republicans who are suggesting that students at college should not be allowed to vote because they are voting for the wrong party!!—Oh, it’s for their own good, you see. Do you get where this is going. On the one hand, we hate the communists because they are a command society with one party…..

  652. Hancock1863 March 10, 2011 at 10:56 am #

    At the same time this is happening there are republicans who are suggesting that students at college should not be allowed to vote because they are voting for the wrong party!!—Oh, it’s for their own good, you see. Do you get where this is going. On the one hand, we hate the communists because they are a command society with one party…..

    Crazy, isn’t it? Or merely par for the course for the last 8,000 years, minus the high energy budget and psycho-technical wizardy.
    I once read a story by Stephen King, in which the villian(s) used the “revoutionary” idea of democracy against a fairly well-run feudal monarchy where the “democrats'” leadership were power-mad, murderous, mendacious Nazi-types.
    I didn’t understand it then, it just didn’t compute as anything but a refreshingly novel role-reversing plot twist.
    But I understand it NOW. ANY philosophy (or most of them, anyway) can be used to justify and back up amoral totalitarianism, what most would call “evil”. Right Wing, Left Wing, Up Wing, Down Wing, Any and All Wings. This does not make them all equal, naturally, but just means that given a certain circumstance, any of the could be so used.
    The American Subjects will figure it out, eventually, lbendet, but not to worry.
    The Powers That Be have a new “old” plan for that inevitable eventuality. It worked before, it’s working now, it will work again right up until the human species goes extinct, apparently.
    Blame the Outgroups. Doesn’t matter which ones, though the same bunch keeps showing up: trade unionists, homosexuals, liberals, intellectuals, free-thinkers, artists…the ususal suspects.
    The only Outgroup I think which has made the transition and will continue to be with the Hunters are the Jews, now that Israel and the Israeli Aristocracy has clearly fused with the American/Eurpoean Republican/Corporate Aristocracy.
    This remains to be seen and cannot be known until Crunch Time/Tipping Point actually arrives in some form or another.
    The rest will be the Hunted, as usual. Though I think the coming American RW model will be more of a “we’ll happily let you starve and freeze to death, 1880s Indidan Reservation style, then act upset for a minimum of time” than the original German RW model of the 30s and 40s, which was, “we will actively kill you and dispose of your corpses, then laugh about it.”
    Dead is still dead, of course. Hope I’m not around to see it. Good luck holding the shitstorm back, TPTB, you corrupt aristocratic bastards! The success of your Neo-feudal evil gives us a few more good years at the expense of all tomorrows.
    Whoopeeeee!
    The human species shall die as we lived, chained at the neck to a few Alpha Male and Alpha Female primates and most of it’s wealth and production always and forever going to them, regardless of philosophic justification.
    Oh well, good luck to whatever species evolves intelligence after we’re gone.

  653. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 11:08 am #

    I know exactly what you mean, Jackie. Remember that I’m a nurse, also.
    It is sad to see people, reduced to their basic blobs of flesh, still being fed and wiped up, but unable to appreciate any of the joys of existence. Most people would not want that for themselves.
    And people who do the feeding and wiping should be paid much better than hedge fund managers.
    But, it doesn’t follow that we should kill people when they get dementia.
    To me it’s like the abortion issue.
    We live on a finite planet, rapidly depleting the very ecosystem we depend upon.
    And yet, so many religious people insist on forcing every unwanted child to be born.
    I think that abortion should be free and widely available on demand.
    I think that drugs to kill yourself should be legal and widely available.
    Every human should have the choice whether to reproduce and when they want to die.
    But no one else should be able to make that choice for them.
    AND we should pay people who voluntarily sterilize themselves.

  654. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 11:17 am #

    Yeah, it totally sucks to be them.
    I don’t watch many movies, but I did see “Avatar”, which I thought was a great movie.
    I think that many people saw it as an allegory for how the Europeans over ran North America, but, really, the destruction of tribal societies for their resources is going on RIGHT NOW.
    James Cameron went down to Brazil and helped stop a dam project, which was going to flood out a number of people to bring electricity to the rich.
    And Arundhati Roy points out that the tribal peoples of India are being slaughtered in Indian jungles right now.
    And the people of New Guinea, of course.
    And the people of the Congo, in Africa.
    Those are the forest peoples being murdered.
    Arundhati Roy ties them into the tribal peoples of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Their land is less lush, but they are still being attacked for their resources.
    Sucks to all of them.
    And the monster is turning its rapacious claws onto us, most of whom have benefited from its droppings for the last 50 years.
    There was so much corn in that chicken-shit, many of us in the US have lived fairly well.
    But that is stopping now.

  655. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown March 10, 2011 at 11:36 am #

    As for the “oil curse”, you might be thinking of Crude World: The Violent Twilight of Oil by Peter Maass. Worth a read, but if you’ve been hanging around here a bit, probably nothing that new.

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  656. messianicdruid March 10, 2011 at 11:41 am #

    “Right Wing, Left Wing, Up Wing, Down Wing, Any and All Wings. This does not make them all equal, naturally, but just means that given a certain circumstance, any of the could be so used.”
    Both used and abused…
    “In the sixteenth century, Italy consisted of numerous independent principalities which were often at war with one another. When a prince conquered a neighboring city, he would sometimes breed internal conflicts among the vanquished citizens. This was an effective way to maintain political control over the people because the endless squabbling [{(~ CFN ~)}] prevented the vanquished people from engaging in unified action against the conqueror. It did not greatly matter over what issues the people bickered so long as they valiantly struggled against one another and not against the conquering prince.” [Bramley, 1989]

  657. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 11:42 am #

    So, Hancock, speaking of that which we think of as very past, but which isn’t – you spoke of the Indians starving on reservations in the 1890s.
    I ran across an account of starving Indians in 1947.
    But this is the US. Half of all the children on this reservation died before they hit 5, but they called it “inanition”, not starvation.
    This is a pretty interesting article, not the least for the fact that the US manages to skate over its unsavory past, still claiming to be the light of the world.
    But, also. Part of the problem was that the Indians had reproduced over the capacity of the land to support them, with the money that the men in WW11 sent home. And then when WW11 was over, the money stopped, and the children starved to death.
    And, note how much press it took to remedy the situation. The Denver Post printed 89 articles and 4 editorials and many other newspapers and Will Rogers all got on board.
    And, note that part of the reason that the Indians were helped is that the USSR was pointing out the hypocrisy of the US’s light of the world propaganda, while Indians were starving.
    I pointed out earlier that part of the reason the US went on a big anti-lynching, anti-racism spree in the 50s was that the USSR was pointing out the hypocrisy to the rest of the world.
    anyway, for your perusal.
    http://www.serendipity.li/hr/ungrateful_nation.htm

  658. lbendet March 10, 2011 at 11:47 am #

    Yes, Wage,
    I believe that when the Soviet Union collapsed that was the end of the American middle class. Without the enemy to win the hearts and minds of the world, we could go into the Milton Friedman mode full-tilt.

  659. newworld March 10, 2011 at 11:51 am #

    That is a horrible answer sir. The only one advocating “white supremacy” are liberals with their condesending attitudes.
    If our own physical existence so upsets you that you rely on the “white supremacy” lable to justify genocide it is you who are evil.

  660. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 11:58 am #

    Exactly the New World Order which the right wingers keep screaming “is coming”, actually was H.W. pointing out that the US could now act unimpeded.
    Both abroad and at home.

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  661. newworld March 10, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    That is quite true, as a piece at alt-right states the GOP and conservative leadership are the most out of touch people in the country, everything reduced to an abstraction deducted from the Blank Slate Theory. They are the most dedicated to creating the “universal man.”
    The Kos kids scream “racist” the Beltway white conservatives jump higher.
    But things are a changing our genocide is not “historically inevitable” as the Marxists are wont to proclaim.
    Witness over at the Kos cult the lead article today is about the threat of the National Front in France.

  662. lbendet March 10, 2011 at 12:05 pm #

    It’s all about the art of projection, a crude way to keep people looking in the wrong direction while you’re pulling off the greatest heist in history. –Freud would be working full-time analysing this!

  663. Cash March 10, 2011 at 12:07 pm #

    Vladdie old bean, I disagree with your racist views and we’ve had some bare knuckle sparring sessions but you’ve always been civil. We frustrate each other terribly but it never degenerated into name calling.
    I’d rather not consign people to the scroll past dumpster but sometimes they work double time asking for it. Just like the workplace or any other social setting, once in a while you get to the end of the line with somebody.
    And now so you guys don’t think I’m a complete and total prick I just want to say what I’ve been thinking for a while. I’ve hugely enjoyed Mr Kunstler’s rants so a tip of the hat to him for that and for giving us this forum to yell at each other. I hope that sometimes he enjoys reading our stuff as much as we enjoy his.
    Many posters here IMO are excellent: Eleuthero, Patrizia, Montsegur pack a lot of great stuff, eloquence, insight and incisiveness into a very few words.
    Wage impresses with her honesty and goodheartedness as does Jackieblue and orionoir with his originality. Many other posters’ opinions I respect and feel a commonality with: Qshtik, Tripp, Hancock, Progressor, Lewis, Marlin, SanjoseMom, Myrtlemay, Ozone, Buck, Asia and others. Even Tootsie when he’s not firing his fucktard torpedoes makes interesting points.
    I think it was Hancock or maybe Progressor that said this forum is the Wild West of commentary. It’s a gas, may it ever be so.

  664. Qshtik March 10, 2011 at 12:10 pm #

    And yet, so many religious people insist on forcing every unwanted child to be born.
    I think that abortion should be free and widely available on demand.
    I think that drugs to kill yourself should be legal and widely available.
    Every human should have the choice whether to reproduce and when they want to die.
    ================
    Although I don’t always agree with things you say, I like the blunt, no punches pulled, way you say it. Snowflake could learn from you.

  665. newworld March 10, 2011 at 12:10 pm #

    Not a single Ivy League alum believes that except guilty feeling white gentiles about the PNGs.
    Diamond is a huckster, a very rich one.
    Do you assume the Chinese think the PNGs are smarter than them. The Jews ditto?
    What a joke, you have been conned. Don’t believe me then go ask people of other groups if they think as Diamond wrote, “The PNGs are the world’s smartest people.”

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  666. lbendet March 10, 2011 at 12:15 pm #

    Thanks alot, Cash
    So what am I? Chopped liver?

  667. Cash March 10, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

    Sorry L, I knew I would miss somebody. Must be old age.
    I’ve never eaten chopped liver. Is it that bad?

  668. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 12:30 pm #

    I don’t think you’re a prick, Cash.
    Let me say something that I thought during last week’s thread.
    I think Prog wanted more sex talk, and Orionor obliged with some lustful talk about sex with strange women.
    I preferred your heartfelt declaration of love for your wife, and your open admission of how scared you were when you thought she would die.
    I admire that.

  669. jackieblue2u March 10, 2011 at 12:30 pm #

    Don’t ask me I ain’t never gonna eat it !
    I am sure it’s BAD. With or without onions.

  670. Qshtik March 10, 2011 at 12:31 pm #

    Blame the Outgroups. Doesn’t matter which ones, though the same bunch keeps showing up: trade unionists, homosexuals, liberals, intellectuals, free-thinkers, artists…the ususal suspects.
    ===============
    Kudos go out this morning to Hancock who has written a nice rant without once using the phrases RW Authoritarianism or RW Lie Machine.
    Congrats Hancock!!
    BTW it’s usual.

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  671. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 12:32 pm #

    You, on the other hand, are a prick.

  672. jackieblue2u March 10, 2011 at 12:40 pm #

    “firing his fucktard torpedoes”
    that’s my morning laugh.
    thanks

  673. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 12:42 pm #

    My Facebook friends are a weird amalgamation of people.
    I have people I know in real life who are political and people I know in real life who are not political and then I befriend people I don’t know who are political.
    So my Facebook scroll reads “me and my bffs are going on a road trip! Yay!” and then “Smash the state!”
    Many people won’t friend people they don’t know in real life. I don’t get that. I friend anyone who seems radical.
    It’s like people here. I like some of you more than I like my co-workers.
    Anyway, this morning one of my real-life friends posted on what a productive morning she’d already had. She drove to the gym and worked out! And then did some other stuff.
    So I posted that I had drank some coffee and got on the internet, cause I thought that was funny.
    No. Another friend got on and bragged about doing laundry and going to WalMart.
    So I said that I had dirty clothes in the washer. Maybe I’d go turn the handle and then I could say I accomplished something.
    Then I had second thoughts. Was that too harsh? Would they be insulted that I was mocking the ridiculous assertion that putting clothes into a machine, and turning a handle, whereby water would be pumped into the machine and electricity would swish the clothes around and then drain them, was somehow work?
    Nope. They didn’t get my point.
    My friend posted that she could do laundry all day. It was folding and putting them away that she found onerous.
    Someday, we’ll have to haul the clothes down to the river and beat them against rocks.
    On the bright side, then we won’t have to work out at Gold’s.

  674. Qshtik March 10, 2011 at 12:45 pm #

    I would tend to enjoy ripping off one of your arms and beating you to death with it.
    No joke.
    ================
    OOOoooOOOWEEE, THAT is HARSH!!

  675. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 12:59 pm #

    Talk about reality optional nation.
    I googled cathedrals in Russia and got close to 2,000,000 hits.
    For Pete’s sakes, Marlin, is there any propaganda you won’t swallow?
    cathedrals in russia-
    http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&sugexp=crnk_lssbd&xhr=t&q=cathedrals+in+russia&cp=17&qe=Y2F0aHJlZHJhbHMgaW4gcnVz&qesig=p7L5cY-coswf0-ip53P5Pg&pkc=AFgZ2tlWRZ_OVw2a4IqbV9pyYGwHYjqfPsWgdwJTM83Yw4V-gBaC-4fkPoA0HgtysUOLwMsGO2zTc85Fog6_EXTseiu4DPMnqQ&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&sa=X&ei=ChB5TdL4KNDrrAGPmqzMBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CEEQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=690

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  676. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 1:02 pm #

    See, I thought it was funny. ha, ha

  677. montsegur March 10, 2011 at 1:02 pm #

    Wagelaborer’s comments:
    “There are some of us who are very averse to killing, even those not of our tribe.”
    ========================
    Understand. That’s why I used the qualifier “very few”.
    ========================
    “As one woman’s sign read “Kick their ass, and take their gas”.”
    ========================
    In 1973, it was “Nuke their ass and take their gas”. Guess I’m dating myself.
    ========================
    “Most Americans are pretty easy-going and only support mass murder if the corporate media drums up support for it.”
    ========================
    Some of what you say is true here, but I would qualify it as being the peculiar product of a world power that has not seen sustained warfare on its continental territory since 1865, as well as being a population that has had its critical thought skills downgraded for decades by operators like Hollywood, Disney, and Madison Avenue. My point: Should warfare return to territory of the continental United States, I do not believe that Americans will remain easy-going. The Civil War was one the bloodiest affairs in American military history, and that was before the advent of machine guns or modern artillery.
    It is informative to compare the experience of Europe. After 1918, many Europeans had seen warfare with machine guns and modern artillery, and most nations were in no hurry to resume the conflict in the 1930s. Without Hitler to hurry matters, I think Europe could have easily gone a couple of more decades without another major war, because so many people recalled the horrors of the First World War — the big bloodletting that discredited the European monarchies and stripped many in Europe of their illusions about the supposed glory of war. Many people in the U.S. have yet to achieve that realization.
    ==========================
    “So you can’t really talk about a typical American.”
    ==========================
    Fully agree.
    Cheers

  678. Patrizia March 10, 2011 at 1:09 pm #

    I am so old I still remember when in Summer we used to spend our holidays in a place where there was no washing machine and we used to wash in the river.
    I was a child and liked to join the women .
    Strangely as it can look, it was one of the things I liked best.
    In one hour you knew all the gossip going around in that small town and for the women it was kind of socializing.
    The only bad memory was that my hads hurt after a while, the water was so cold!
    That is for saying that nothing is totally good or totally bad.
    Life without machines was somehow pleasant, certainly slower.
    Life is what you can make out of it, also something like washing can be entertaining.

  679. hillwalker March 10, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    Okay Wagelaborer,
    I guess I should just shut up now! 🙂
    Yeah, one of the worst offenses in my dad’s eyes was to leave a light on after you left the room. He could never understand how anyone could leave a radio on, the TV, a light. Take you around the side of the house, explain the electric meter, but it never really sank in. It has now of course.
    I swear he could hear the meter spinning in his sleep!
    🙂

  680. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 1:21 pm #

    Hey, don’t shut up, Hillwalker.
    I like your style.
    And I still walk around turning off lights, even at work.

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  681. MarlinFive54 March 10, 2011 at 1:24 pm #

    It looks like the big slide might have begun in the stock market. Just yesterday they (CNBC commentators) were celebrating the anniversary of the ‘two year bull run’. Last I checked it was down 150.
    Like JHK wrote a few weeks ago,’It goes up every day, until the day it goes down ‘. I thought that was a great line, one of many.
    What is surprising is that commodities, including oil, are down, too.
    I’m certainly no expert but I couldn’t for the life of me understand why the Dow was on this seemingly endless upward trajectory. The real economy is not that good. The only thing I could come up with is all that money Bernanke was printing needed somewhere to go. Interests rates are at near 0 and real estate is moribund, in my opinion never to revive. So the money just poured into the markets.
    Sooner or later reality is going to descend upon us, which basically has been the point of Jim’s posts the past few weeks.
    Anybody ever hear that Elvis Costello song “Waiting for the End of the World”. I’m not waiting for that, just the one big event that will make everything crystal clear.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  682. Patrizia March 10, 2011 at 1:26 pm #

    I am on the saving side, I find it very stupid to waste for waste`s sake.
    Some people feel like they have to prove that they do not care for money, so they have to show they can afford to waste.
    There are epople who enjoy spending and others who enjoy saving.
    I am so happy I belong to the second category, I live with little and I even enjoy it!
    .

  683. MarlinFive54 March 10, 2011 at 1:37 pm #

    Wagelabor;
    The Cathedrals in Russia during Soviet times were looted and desecrated. Not all of them were burned down. Some were turned into storage, others, barracks housing NKVD troops.
    Some of the Churches destroyed were 1000 years old. The loot robbed from them was sold on the world antiquities markets to earn hard currency for the beleagured Soviet government. There were entire gulags in the east filled with nothing other than peasants convicted of being practicing Christians.
    Many Cathedrals have been restored since 1990. Even a monster like Stalin, and a monstrous idiolgy like Marxism, couldn’t eradicate the Church in Russia.
    Saudi Police firing live rounds at protesters as we speak. It has begun.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  684. k-dog March 10, 2011 at 1:37 pm #

    I recall that electric power generation accounts for a third of domestic greenhouse gas emissions. Transportation accounts for another third and heat for buildings is the remaining third.
    A hobby horse of mine concerns the pig tail CFL light bulbs that are supposed to last seven years but never do. They contain mercury and TPTB push for their universal use without providing any recycling infrastructure to go along with it.

  685. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 1:40 pm #

    Wow, I was thinking that life without machines would suck.
    Thanks for the other view.

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  686. Bustin J March 10, 2011 at 1:42 pm #

    Marlin, let me lounge on the chaise here and spell something out for you that has flown under your radar: there are a hell of a lot of athiests in the world who are ostensibly religious.
    These consist of all the members of the G10, G20, etc. The heavy representation of the religious in their constituencies and the fact that one MUST pander to their idiocy means that any truly intelligent person who is a world leader MUST be faking a religious stance. How easy is it? Very easy.
    We’re talking modern leaders here. The mid-20th century was still in a late transistion phase from the middle-ages “Divine right of Kings” era, where the everyone wallowed in a general ignorance so profound that superstition was the only game in town.
    At some point, plutocracies gave way to ostensible meritocracies around the same time as the germ theory of disease. When “bleeding people” fell out of favor in the face of real epidemiology, the transition began. The American revolution marked the early stages of this transition, the founding fathers were most certainly intelligent enough not to believe the nonsense. Deism, as such, is simply a transitional state toward atheism.
    I digress. Anyway, since the bulk of the lumpenprole demands certain displays from their leaders (usually of the self-flattering kind) it became necessary to talk up a good amount of BS about how religious one is. My belief is that a many of the leaders of the 20th century were religious, and quite a few were not; the bulk of attention is paid to the chief executives, distorting the picture. But simply put, it is a secret that many people suspect: the religious views of otherwise intelligent people aren’t compatible.
    It is assumed, by most, that irreligious types, athiests, etc., are more intelligent, and vice versa. When you meet a very intelligent person, you don’t assume that he believes crap like the Statue of Mary in El Guanaco really cries tears of blood on Ash Wednesday.
    Most average people, in the fog of whatever ignorance grips their imagination, suspicious of everything that goes BUMP in the night, are aware of the disbelief and derision that smart people have toward their suspicions. And so it is with elected officials, who seem smart and powerful. The gripping question is, does this person believe as I do, or does he think me a fool?
    By the way, some people have real cognitive and psychological problems that prevent them from understanding things like Causation, or the difference between imagination and reality. Quite a few people hear actual voices in their heads and no one is going to convince them they do not! Paranormality is the norm for these people and they are frequently the bulwark of the religious community because there is absolutely no guile in their conviction that the paranormal world exists.
    Basically, a politician is required to lie about his beliefs if he is to get elected. This is not such a big compromise for most, since they have a deep sympathy for those they would lead. They know that the only way to profit fools is to fool them, and that is the practical fact.
    How so? Lets see. Flooding the environment with estrogen mimicking compounds, reducing fertility. Cheap carbohydrates to satiate the masses. TV to stupify. Impoverish the world, until you have everyone in a condition where they are amenable to forming lines. Then loading them on buses (not trains- that is SO 20th century) and then taking them someplace where they can be composted.
    What could be more fulfilling than spending eternity pushing up daisies?
    Just kidding. More to your point: why the dialectic? God belief can be quite effectively argued apart, but nothing can compel someone to not believe something. I’m just musing on a subject here. What if you narrowed the world religions down to, say, two major ones, and then had them wipe each other out? Worked in the past?
    As for the 20th century examples of despots you mentioned- they were authoritarian dictators. America is an atheist state. It was designed so: all the accouterments like swearing on the bible, “IGWT” on the money, etc., are just window dressing. And we exterminated the Indians, etc. So digging around the dustbin of history for examples to prove some point about the inherent ethical corruption of Atheistic leaders is pointless. Last century was characterized by a lack of understanding about what the world requires to function, or what fundamental limits exist.
    Mmm, that was some good Scotch. Hope you’re enjoying some imbibement as well, Marlin Fish.
    It is absolutely necessary that the atheists of the world continue to tolerate and abide the worst aspects of religious quackery. Knowing that you cannot machine-gun them all and at the same time appeal to their rationality means the only effective method left is containment.
    Sadly this method does not work either. The pen is bursting at the seams and sooner or later, the faux athiests of the world leader cadre will have to admit that the irrationality of man cannot be tolerated, that it is a crazy death urge spreading cancer across the planet. At which point those in the driver’s seat will probably do something.

  687. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 1:49 pm #

    Yeah, K-dog, I have my doubts about those also.
    They don’t seem to last.
    And you’re supposed to not turn them off and on, which goes against my grain!
    Plus, some lights I only use sporadically. Like my barn light, and my closet light.
    I’ve had the same lightbulbs there as long as I’ve lived here (16 years).
    Now they want to outlaw those bulbs?
    Something’s fishy.

  688. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 1:51 pm #

    My parents visited the USSR in the 80s, Marlin.
    Part of the tour was touring numerous cathedrals, preserved by the Soviets.
    But, you believe what you want to believe, clearly.
    Take a look at those pictures and tell me that you think they were all restored by the impoverished Russians in the 90s.
    Whatever.

  689. Bustin J March 10, 2011 at 1:53 pm #

    Olde8324 said, “This brain is under stress by having to find some equilibrium between instincts and civilization, and so lashes out violently as soon as it can find any justification (the jews are bad, the blacks are an inferior race, the mexicans are invading us, you name it).”
    I absolutely agree with you there- to a point. Where some damaged brains can be salvaged, it is a matter of training and conditioning. It has to start early with an exposure to Nature, and a fundamental instruction in logical principles. A young mind is ready to learn how to think; instead it is thrown into an arena meant to judge kids on innate thinking skills.
    Kind of like judging someone on how well they ride a bike without actually teaching them how to ride a bike.
    Why not teach the kids fundamental logic before teaching them mathematics? For some reason people believe math education IS functional logic instruction, where most kids simply memorize.
    My theory is that a kid taught logic will quickly see what utter bullshit most adults believe and repeat. Most parents, vain as they are, would find it hard to stomach their kids pointing out their faults.
    On the contrary, I think average kids are perfectly capable of evolving into rational, critically thinking adults. But most parents simply try and housebreak/train a child to bend to their prejudices and stupidity.
    Child abuse, in every sense of the word, is THE fundamental problem with society.
    The institution of public schooling is sickening, but the private privations of the average adult’s parental technique is equally appalling. PTAs and society demand a kind of soft-headed drowse-inducing somnolent mental programming of children, all in the service of “preparing” them for the insanity of “competition” in the adult world. Its turned generations of serviceable people into servile, neurotic turds with PTSD.

  690. k-dog March 10, 2011 at 1:58 pm #

    BINGO – Crude World: The Violent Twilight of Oil by Peter Maass That’s the one. Thanks

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  691. lbendet March 10, 2011 at 2:01 pm #

    Ha! Cash–no harm done–just thought I’d tweak ya.
    Chopped liver is something I haven’t had in many years–it’s full of cholesterol and fat and with eggs added its a cardiologist’s dream. Is it tasty?—Not from my point of view, but lots of people love it. Maybe it’s an acquired taste i never developed.

  692. Gus44 March 10, 2011 at 2:03 pm #

    That’s interesting, I’ve had the opposite experience. I have an old house with suspect wiring. I used to blow out a light bulb a week. I’ve had much better luck with CFLs. Not like lasting 7 years good, but I’ve only had a couple go out in the three years I’ve been using them. I do worry about the mercury in them, though, and they definitely don’t work as well in my three season porch in the winter.

  693. Cash March 10, 2011 at 2:07 pm #

    We can have a defensive military, to protect us from those big, bad, potential enemies. – Wage
    Big, bad. A not so subtle note of sarcasm.
    Wage, I knew a guy from Vietnam who was held captive in a “re-education camp” for 5 years. He said he was starving to death there. He said the suffering from hunger and disease was terrible. His crime? He worked as a bank teller when the Vietnam fell to the Communists. An enemy of the people therefore. When I knew him he was an accounts payable clerk at the company I worked at.
    One night, to save his own life, he jumped the wire. The story was told to me close to 20 years ago so the details are foggy but somehow he made it to a small boat on the coast. In the sea passage they were set upon by Thai pirates who threatened him. He told them to kill him. He said he was at the end of his rope, sick, exhausted and he had only the rags he was wearing. He said death would have been a relief.
    He survived the sea journey, he made it to a refugee camp (can’t remember which country) and eventually made it to Canada. He was accepted as a refugee and is now a Canuck citizen.
    Point I’m trying to make here and in other posts with these anecdotes is I think you’re severely underestimating the evil in foreign societies and regimes.
    My wife is Chinese, I’ve known and have worked with many Chinese from Hong Kong and mainland China. Believe me Wage, they come from a very different cultural tradition and by culture I don’t only mean art and music and literature. I’m talking about how they look at basic stuff, the citizen’s place in society, the person’s obligations to family. I wish I had a buck for every time one disparaged “democracy” and western “decadence”.
    They laugh at us. They think we’re fat and sloppy and lazy. They think our schools are a joke, our young monumentally undisciplined and disrespectful. They do not value free wheeling, free thinking individualism, they do not tolerate lip from children. The way a typical Chinese parent raises a kid is a long way from how a typical non Chinese North American raise theirs. That tiger mom, Amy Chua, is extreme but you get the picture.
    I keep hearing how Chinese intelligence services have penetrated the immigrant Chinese community here via intimidation and other tactics in order to steal industrial secrets. I’ve also read how they’ve subverted local and national politicians.
    They do not wish us well Wage. They are smart and they have cast iron balls and I admire them. But they will be formidable adversaries and I also fear them.

  694. k-dog March 10, 2011 at 2:11 pm #

    Saudi police disperse rally in eastern province, reports say; AP says shots fired at protesters… More soon…….
    Breaking news Al Jazeera
    Oil prices still down for the day but beginning to edge up.

  695. MarlinFive54 March 10, 2011 at 2:16 pm #

    Wageslave;
    Your parents were being shown Potemkin villages. The Soviets were famous for that.
    In 1944 US Vice President Henry Wallace visited the Soviet Kolyma extermination camps in outer Siberia, where more humans were exterminated per square mile than anywhere else on earth. He was closely escorted, of course, and supervised. After several weeks there he declared it an OK place.
    Later in his life, after he learned the truth and that he had been duped, he apologized to the Russian people for being so goddam naive and stupid.
    BustinJ;
    I find your writing style dense and abstruse. I recently read Spengler’s ‘Decline of the West” and found I had to go over certain paragraphs two or three times to understand what he was driving at. I have to do the same thing with you.
    Down at the faculty, are all your comrades in a dither over Congressman King’s hearings on radical Islam in the U.S.?
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

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  696. asia March 10, 2011 at 2:27 pm #

    whats yr F’book page ?

  697. asia March 10, 2011 at 2:32 pm #

    Oh Wake UP!
    Do you really think in 1990 peeps in the US Hated / Feared [imploded] Russia?

  698. asia March 10, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

    HHHAAA haha fukin hahaha
    THE END OF CENSORSHIP=THE END OF LIBERALISM
    [maybe].

  699. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 2:41 pm #

    I can’t believe that you’re implying that the US is in danger from the Vietnamese, Cash.
    This, after the US killed 3,000,000 Vietnamese? And poisoned its land?
    We’re supposed to look down on them?
    As for the Chinese, when is the last time they invaded another country?
    I don’t like the Chinese culture, either, if you want to know the truth.
    Not since an old Chinese woman knocked over my 5 year old, so that she could get closer to Santa Claus.
    But once they’re here for a while, I like them fine.
    I don’t understand what you’re driving at. You want the US to attack China?
    We did that before, in order to make sure that the British could continue to sell opium to them.
    I don’t think that we should do it again.

  700. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 2:43 pm #

    They toured subways and cathedrals, Marlin.
    I’m pretty much done talking with you.
    Clearly, you’ve had years of brainwashing, and you’re clinging to it.
    Carry on!

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  701. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 2:46 pm #

    No offense, asia, but when I said that I friend radical people, I meant on the left, not on the right.
    I have enough real life right wing friends whose posts annoy me. I don’t need more.

  702. asia March 10, 2011 at 2:51 pm #

    ‘I don’t believe that you prefer to live in ignorance.’
    THEN YOU DIDNT HAVE ‘MR CUT N PASTE’S’ NUMBER!

  703. asia March 10, 2011 at 2:53 pm #

    ‘They laugh at us’………. and I cry for them.
    First they praise us, next they bury us.
    2? billion people is a tough act to follow.

  704. Qshtik March 10, 2011 at 3:00 pm #

    They think our schools are a joke
    =============
    Ra ra rand?

  705. Cash March 10, 2011 at 3:00 pm #

    I’m not implying any such thing.
    I’m just illustrating yet another example of exceedingly shitty behaviour from a foreign regime. Evil in other words. Non American evil, which I think you gloss over. You see American evil but seem to give others a pass.
    As for the Chinese, when is the last time they invaded another country? – Wage
    You are correct. But my fear is that is about to change. They need resources. We in Canada have them. So do other countries. They have a massive oversupply of young men because of female infanticide and selective abortion. They have a billion poor and frustrated people. And did I mention all those young men and not enough young women? This does not bode well. If you want mayhem make sure you have a large number of unmarried and frustrated and hungry young men. China has all that.
    I do not want the US to attack China. What I’m saying is that you sound dismissive of danger coming from foreign regimes. I don’t think you should be so dismissive. I think you should be a lot more respectful of the power of these regimes, of their malice and of the toughness and intelligence of their people and of the ability of non Americans to inflict mayhem. I’m saying it to sound an alarm, that’s all.

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  706. Cash March 10, 2011 at 3:01 pm #

    I told my wife that joke. She thinks it’s hilarious.

  707. Cash March 10, 2011 at 3:15 pm #

    Wage, you’re so typical
    I never used the L word once in my post (I went back and checked).
    But, to be fair, we fall a lot harder for chicks, I think, than the other way around. When there’s a breakup the girl commiserates with her friends, cries, runs a bath with a whole bunch of scented candles, rips up all the old photos.
    The guy drinks a bottle of whisky, gets into a knife fight, jumps into the car, leads the cops on a 200 mile chase and and drives off a bridge.
    Craziness.

  708. LewisLucanBooks March 10, 2011 at 3:25 pm #

    Re: Lightbulbs. Here in our rural area, there was a recent letter to the editor about banning the old bulbs. What the writer wanted to know is how he was going to keep the chicks warm and the well house warm.
    Well, I suppose TPTB will come up with something expensive ad whizz-bang, probably with a two hundred page manual and a computer chip.
    On the other hand, there’s probably enough oldsters left in this neck of the woods that remember how these problems were overcome before the bulbs. Smaller numbers of chicks in a box next to the wood stove?

  709. newworld March 10, 2011 at 3:25 pm #

    Look at their indoctrination and how total it is, when it comes to something as harmless as AmRen. There you have a few dozen professors who want to continue the work of the physical anthropologists of the 1920s and the white libs and their allies have a complete mental breakdown because a few dozen professors in the sea of millions of blank slate hacks with government approved funding feel as threatened as East German commies of 1989.
    Freaking sad that our leadership is in thrall to a fantasy ideology on both the left and the right and we discuss policy by who can have the biggest fit of despair.
    I wrote JHK to pull out his Kubrick collection and see how Stanley viewed the preoccupation with dumb ideologies the gentiles have. Kubrick would have a ball with these numbnuts and their save the world from them being non-white ideology.

  710. Qshtik March 10, 2011 at 3:26 pm #

    Re liver Lbend said: “Maybe it’s an acquired taste i never developed.”
    =============
    When I was a young kid (late ’40s) my parents sent my brother and me to a summer camp for two weeks. I guess they needed a break.
    You would think a camp for kids would know NOT to serve certain things for dinner. One night we’re all sitting along benches at either side of a long table and they bring out !!LIVER!!
    I tell the councilor “I can’t eat it, I’ll throw up.” He says something like “Oh, don’t be silly, it won’t kill you.” My brother chimes in “No, sir, he means it.”
    I continue trying to refuse to eat and the councilor starts getting pissed. He says “Cut the meat in small pieces and wrap each one in bread and swallow it whole.”
    With tears streaming down my face I do as he says and manage to get several pieces down. Suddenly I go into those awful retching motions and up comes everything all over the table. My brother says to the councilor “I warned ya, sir.”

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  711. San Jose Mom 51 March 10, 2011 at 3:37 pm #

    Bustin,
    Teaching logic early on is a great idea. I started playing the logic game “Mastermind” with my kids when they were very young. I also taught them how to play chess.
    I agree that child abuse is a huge problem.
    Jen

  712. JonathanSS March 10, 2011 at 3:39 pm #

    “Very few adults realize that silence is golden and if they’re going to open their piehole in conversation, they might as well talk about
    stuff that actually matters”
    What an amazing day of posts, starting with yours at 1:23am. I’ve really learned many great lessons. I should have read your comments and kept them in mind before I had that dust up with my neighbor on Sat. I try to talk about important matters, but I forgot that normal adult conversation is about trivialities. It’s not the CFN or JHK hyperbole.

  713. lbendet March 10, 2011 at 3:40 pm #

    Oh, wake up yourself, Asia
    I was referring to something Wage mentioned which was that George Bush the elder said at the point that The “evil empire” went down, that this is the end of history and the beginning of the new world order. Meaning global neoliberalism was in full steam and that by inference the elite didn’t have to support the middle class anymore. So I said that at the end of the cold war, they didn’t think they had the competition with the USSR.-tis all.

  714. Vlad Krandz March 10, 2011 at 3:43 pm #

    Meritocracy? Ah very good. And you know how much Blacks are against that. But do you know why? They know they can’t compete against Whites or Asians. And they hate us for being smarter.
    Sorry about you Dad being a prick. Is that why you hate Whites – cuz he’s White? Sounds crazy but hell, Liberals are crazy. Do you forgive the Black Woman who tried to ruin your life? I don’t. Not unless she’s sorry. Even God Himself doesn’t forgive people who aren’t sorry. Liberals forgive everyone (except conservative Whites) because they are better than God! The hatred and spleen thus conserved is then spent on other Whites in the most unjust and vicious ways imaginable.
    And of course there is the hypocrisy factor, the way most Liberals preserve their lives. Laud Blacks to the skies and then live as far away from them as possible. Rave in favor of Affirmative Action but not for your own job – just for other Whites, especially the bad ones. Again this is where the unconsciousness helps Liberals. If they but knew what they are, they would have to change – or explode.
    In all this, we aren’t like Ancient Rome but more like Victorian England. Even at their decadent end, the Romans loved themselves and wanted to continue. They just didn’t carry through in time with the reforms that would have made that possible. Our desire to die is far beyond any level of corruption in known history.

  715. Vlad Krandz March 10, 2011 at 3:51 pm #

    I hate him more than you do but he hates you more than me. Where is the justice? Like Boxer says, I must try harder.
    Check this out: Whites are the best at Football, not necessarily as individuals, but as a team: http://castefootball.us/viewarticle.asp?sportID=14&teamID=0&ID=23712

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  716. JonathanSS March 10, 2011 at 4:02 pm #

    RE: Incandescent lightbulbs going away:
    There are many alternatives to using bulbs to produce heat. You can purchase mats or heating pads in a variety of wattages. Or, use four 23W CFL to get close to 100 watt.
    Regarding CFL; these will go away once LED lighting production ramps up. With the investment that companies have made in CFL production in China, a fast change over doesn’t appear likely.
    I’ve written politicians in CA about the inadequate specing of our lighting products. Knowing power usage is meaningless. It’s like telling me how many gallons of gas you’ve used without distance mentioned. The key lighting spec should be lumens/watt. You can find each of these (lumens & watts) listed on most packages, but you’ll have to divide the two to get the final number. I propose a goal of 100 lumens/watt (kind of like the mythical 100 mpg). Right now, most lighting is in the 20-40 lumens/watt range.

  717. BeantownBill March 10, 2011 at 4:03 pm #

    Ah, after all these years I’ve found a fellow (liver) traveler.
    Of all the foods in the known universe, I’ve despised liver the most, far and away. When I was a boy, my mother would give me liver steak; I couldn’t stand to even put it in my mouth. My mother said I couldn’t leave the table until I ate it. I had several 3 and 4 hour bouts of table-sitting.
    Once, when I was about 8 years old, I didn’t want to stay at the table any more, so I put the liver in the back pocket of my pants and told my mother I had finished eating it, fully intending to throw the liver out as soon as I got outside. I ran out to play and forgot I had the liver in my back pocket. Well, several days later my mother noticed a horrid smell coming from the laundry bucket. It was the rotted liver.

  718. Vlad Krandz March 10, 2011 at 4:06 pm #

    You’re being flippant – as usual trying to minimize the horrors of Communism. Yes the Commies kept a few Churches so people like you could act like you’re acting now. And they created a fake Orthodox Church so no one could say they destroyed the Church – which they most certainly tried to do. And failed. Sorry.

  719. BeantownBill March 10, 2011 at 4:08 pm #

    The sad thing is, my mother was giving me liver because she believed it was healthy. It does contain a shitload of vitamin A per serving, but besides the high cholesterol and fat content, the liver is the organ that detoxifies the blood, so god knows what junk has accumulated there before the cow is slaughtered.

  720. MarlinFive54 March 10, 2011 at 4:08 pm #

    Yeah, Comrade Wageslave, the Soviet Union was a wonderful place. It was the USA that was bad.
    They were also deeply religious and went out of their way to foster their Orthodox Christian, Baptist and Jewish populations.
    Now I’m getting ready to sing the “International”.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

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  721. JonathanSS March 10, 2011 at 4:10 pm #

    Good liver story. Brings back my own bad memories. Another thing we have in common.

  722. Vlad Krandz March 10, 2011 at 4:14 pm #

    Atheism is a Religion and their No God is a jealous God. The Dialectic will not tolerate any other Gods in the Land. It’s followers will throw down their Temples and slaughter their followers – even as Jehovah ordered the ancient Jews to do to the Cannanites. Get a copy of Bertrand Russel’s “History of Western Philosophy” – in the Marx section he draws up a table showing a one to one correspondence between the Old Testament and Dialectical Materialism.
    And of course the kicker is that even as he was disparaging it all he believed most all of it. A true Fabian wolf in sheep’s clothing.

  723. lbendet March 10, 2011 at 4:19 pm #

    Q,
    Never thought we’d bond over our hatred of liver. My mom was an excellent cook, but occasionally she felt she had to serve liver, bacon, onions and all.
    I always asked her what was for dinner and when she was planning on serving liver she overcompensated by saying “delicious liver”. (That meant I was eating cereal that night instead.) I’d say, “No editorializing, Ma!”

  724. Vlad Krandz March 10, 2011 at 4:36 pm #

    As before you are trying to avoid the conjoined issues: Do Whites have real rights or just privledges; and if they do have real rights, how is it legal for powerful Blacks and Liberals to be able to shut them down?
    Listen to your loathsome self: talking about what k dog post I remember and/or responed to. Who the fuck cares? And again the loyal son of the south crap. Whites wouldn’t have anything if they hadn’t fought back and won the Peace. They were already disarmed – many fanatical Liberals wanted them dispossesd from the land in favor of Blacks. Anything you have you owe to White racists. And you had the privledge of knowing some good old men who tried to impart the pride and the vision to you – maybe one of your grandfathers, one of your friends’ father, the lonely old man down the road – but now you spit on them all. You’d rather talk about k dog posts and my mental health rather than the issue at hand. Fuck you. Quibble, quibble you corrupt little clown. What are you, chopped liver? You remind me of Dershowitz trying to defend Israel against against a real mensch, Norman Finkelstein.
    You aint fit to tote grits to bears. You should be cut open like Prometheus so the crows can peck your liver out.

  725. progressorconserve March 10, 2011 at 4:42 pm #

    “Perhaps you can set us straight? To my eyes, you present yourself as some sort of updated version of Atticus Finch, and not only that, more or less representative of a misunderstood Southern majority. And yet, election night results, year after year, decade after decade, belie such a presentation. What gives?”
    -buck-
    Buck, you know it’s funny how CFN will have new posters come roaring through here – yelling at JHK and the thread that we’re a bunch of egg sucking liberal pessimists – and we use big words and type funny, too.
    Well, I was looking for a peak oil site and when I found JHK pulling up the drawbridge every week against those NASCAR Cheeze Doodlers – I decided I’d better stick around and give the place a Southern voice for a while.
    Stereotyping the South is one of those politically correct and “*safe*” things to do.
    You ask about election results. Blame the Electoral College, far more than the south. Most southern states have gone 40% +/- for the Democrat – in national elections. Yet national Democrats pay us little attention any more – they focus on the “battleground states.” I think I saw ONE Obama ad on TV during the entire campaign.
    So now most of the Senate seats have gone Republican, too – but it’s really a chicken/egg thing, as to what came first.
    You mentioned the south as anti-union; that’s what got us into this discussion in the first place. That’s why I mentioned sociology. You take the only region of the US ever to be defeated and occupied by a foreign force. You mix in strong class consciousness, abject depression “Tobacco Road” type poverty – all against a background of racial issues developing long before the rest of the country began to deal with these racial issues.
    And you’re going to get some really interesting societal results. I’ve been burning brush all day, just like St. Ronald and W – and I’ve got to get back out to it, so I’m out of time.
    I did find this, while researching my answer to you. It’s mostly about the union situation in Wisconsin – but references the South in a way that agrees with what I’m trying to say.
    http://rortybomb.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/the-deep-south-conservative-economic-policy-across-all-states-wisconsin-most-of-all/
    “…the default model of economic growth in Southern states for decades—as the capital-starved, low-wage region concluded that the way it could compete economically with other states was to emphasize its comparative advantages: low costs, a large pool of relatively poor workers, “right to work” laws that discouraged unionization, and a small appetite for environmental or any other sort of regulation. So, like an eager Third-World country, the South…”
    Long post – sorry kdog – scroll, y’all!

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  726. BeantownBill March 10, 2011 at 4:46 pm #

    As an atheist and a live and let live person, I really don’t care if others choose to believe in a god or gods. I just go about my life without expending energy on religion; it’s worked well for me.
    But since this is a discussion forum, I will state my lack of understanding about how people choose to have faith in a supernatural being depicted in a book whose chapters were written 1700-3000 years ago. This book is supposedly the word of God. Furthermore, this book is dangerously contradictory in many places. For instance, God is depicted as infinitely compassionate, yet he orders Joshua to kill all heathen tribes down to the last women and children; and he engages in a contest with the Prince of Evil to torture his devout follower (Job) to test Job’s total devotion to him, evfen though God is supposedly all-knowing. I could go on and on with more examples.
    Feh, (as the Jews say)! Me, I’ll look up at the sky, see the stars and the tiniest portion of a stupendously awesome universe, and know that I, myself, am a miracle because before I die, I’ve had the awareness to appreciate all of this.

  727. progressorconserve March 10, 2011 at 4:54 pm #

    You fear me, Vlad. I’m an honest Southerner with racist roots and Confederate great grandparents.
    You are on the west coast with a theory of a Black Nation in Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia.
    I know more about racism than you will ever know – and it is a vile nasty obsession to have. That Charlotte City Council bunch – 8 whites and 4 blacks – knows more about racism than you will ever know.
    You shout insults out of your fear.
    Prometheus yourself.
    And yes, whites have rights. But you are just pushing the day when this is acknowledged further and further into the future – by packaging it with hate, racism, and divisive rhetoric.

  728. lbendet March 10, 2011 at 4:57 pm #

    “I’ll look up at the sky, see the stars and the tiniest portion of a stupendously awesome universe, and know that I, myself, am a miracle because before I die, I’ve had the awareness to appreciate all of this.”
    ______
    I’m with you on that!

  729. Vlad Krandz March 10, 2011 at 4:57 pm #

    Your brother sounds like an amazing man. Is he still alive? What does he think of Peak Everthing?
    The Caste Sports site makes an amazing claim: that Pro Football and now even College stereoypes White Atheletes so as to exclude them from certain positions such as wide reciever and running back – thus the “Caste”. I don’t follow Football so I can’t say. What do you think?
    They aren’t completely biased. They admit
    Blacks are often great athletes. I think they admit Blacks are faster and can jump better. They merely maintain that these skills don’t negate all the other skills necessary to be a good ball player – certainly they’re not as important as in basketball for example.

  730. Qshtik March 10, 2011 at 4:59 pm #

    Ah, after all these years I’ve found a fellow (liver) traveler.
    ==================
    Well, as long as we’re going to play liver-one-upmanship …
    . if my wife and I are invited to dinner and the host(ess) asks in advance “is there anything in particular I should avoid serving?” my stock answer is “I can eat anything including eyeball soup (ref Raiders of the Lost Ark) EXCEPT LIVER!!
    . at Thanksgiving dinner I put some giblet gravy on my mashed potatoes. One tiny giblet was LIVER. When I tasted it I barfed.
    But oddly, about 15 years ago I happened to bite into a liverwurst sandwich – it was served in a conference room during a working lunch – and I kind of liked it. Periodically afterward I would order liverwurst on rye with sliced onion and sprinkle on lots of salt and pepper. So I guess it is possible to acquire a taste.

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  731. JonathanSS March 10, 2011 at 5:01 pm #

    “..I’ve had the awareness to appreciate all of this.”
    You’re on a roll!

  732. Qshtik March 10, 2011 at 5:23 pm #

    You should be cut open like Prometheus so the crows can peck your liver out.
    ================
    Come on boys … fight nice now.

  733. Vlad Krandz March 10, 2011 at 5:25 pm #

    Tommorrow never comes. Sanda Day O’Connor extended Affirmative Action for another generation. The current Administration and Congress is trying to extend the spending binge for other administrations and congresses in the future. Your idea that Whites will get their rights someday is just more of the same bullshit. If it’s not true today, then it will never be. Until we demand our rights in the present, we will continue to lose them; until we demand fiscal responsibility, we wont get it; and until we demand an end to Blacks being put over Whites, it will continue. Surely you don’t think the Blacks will ever voluntarily end their special privleges? Or that Liberals will stop pandering to them? This is what happens when a Nation ceases to be a Republic and becomes a mob run “Democracy”.

  734. lbendet March 10, 2011 at 5:47 pm #

    Check out this article JHK has referred to Tainter in his blog in the past:
    Joseph Tainter: talking about collapse.
    http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/2011-03-10/joseph-tainter-talking-about-collapse

  735. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 5:48 pm #

    The L word?
    Lust? Love? Liberal?
    Typical what?

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  736. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 5:59 pm #

    OK, that was cute, Vlad.
    Your attempt at insults started out OK, but then, as befits you, degenerated into obscure references to literary figures.
    Kind of like your regular posts.
    I find it endearing.

  737. wagelaborer March 10, 2011 at 6:09 pm #

    That seems to be a difference between atheists and religious people.
    I, also, am awestruck by the universe.
    I can’t comprehend the concept of infinity, whether of time or space, but I’ve come to grips with it and accept it.
    Religious people look at the same universe, try to come to grip with the same concepts, and conclude that there must be a super power that made it all.
    This baffles me. How is it more comprehensible to add a super power?
    You still have to wonder where he came from, who made him, and where he was before he created the universe.
    And what was here before.
    How is that comforting?

  738. orionoir March 10, 2011 at 6:28 pm #

    {Of all the foods in the known universe, I’ve despised liver the most, far and away.}

  739. BeantownBill March 10, 2011 at 6:38 pm #

    “Religious people look at the same universe, try to come to grip with the same concepts, and conclude that there must be a super power that made it all.
    This baffles me. How is it more comprehensible to add a super power?”
    Over the past few years, research has hinted at brain structure inherent in the human brain as responsible for belief in the supernatural. Apparently most individuals are wired for this, which leads to the question how those that don’t believe are different.
    I grew up in a dysfunctional family where crazymaking behavior was ongoing on a daily basis. I always had to analyze everything around me to try to make sense of life. Maybe this led me to always question the validity of any proposition – in other words, my environment led me to be skeptical. On the other hand, maybe the terrible environment I grew up in was because my family had brain misfunction, me included. This is all about the nature vs. nurture debate.

  740. asoka March 10, 2011 at 6:48 pm #

    Poetry and music by Coleman Barks and Grammy-winning cellist David Darling:
    THIS WE HAVE NOW
    http://vimeo.com/20527265
    Coleman Barks is a good ‘ol boy from Georgia.
    Poetry of Rumi.
    Refresh yourself. You deserve a break today.

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  741. BeantownBill March 10, 2011 at 7:00 pm #

    Yes, but Alpo tastes much better (I assume).

  742. BeantownBill March 10, 2011 at 7:04 pm #

    Q, you win. I only had that one liver story.

  743. trippticket March 10, 2011 at 7:06 pm #

    You’re too hard on yourself…and too kind to me! Thanks for the encouraging words, and I very much like the idea of being thought of as a farmer-poet. It’s all the land’s doing really; I’m just a kid, full of wonder, taking notes. But maybe I should get to know Mr. Tolstoy a little better. Sounds like a smart chap.

  744. orionoir March 10, 2011 at 7:16 pm #

    {I’m certainly no expert but I couldn’t for the life of me understand why the Dow was on this seemingly endless upward trajectory. The real economy is not that good.}
    ———
    sometimes, eg, when nothing much else is going on, i watch the markets and its numbers closely. it’s an endless puzzlebox.
    today the dow fell through 12,000 and the s&p likewise went under 1,300, plus the nasdaq came within a hare’s breath (hair’s breadth 2u q) of 2,700. of course, they’re just round numbers; numbers which round arbitrarily because we count with fingers but not toes. still, we are a suspicious species, albeit speciously so.
    corporate profits drive stock prices… in case you haven’t noticed, the dow, s&p and nasdaq are comprised of a bunch of huge corporations. in general, their profits are looking just ducky. central banks have them swimming in liquidity, governments are compliant, workers are subdued.
    homelessness doesn’t affect markets, nor does despair throughout the land. injustice doesn’t count for much. reckless squandering of finite resources, degradation of the environment, infinite social, political & economic atrocities do not move the needle, until, of course, they do, at which time they will, but not until then.
    ———-
    a global economy which cannot possibly keep going on this way will eventually stop going on this way, of that we can all be sure. but how? and even more importantly, when? you’re either a genius or a fool if you have confidence in your predictions; as a rule of thumb, the genius:fool ratio is about 1/million.
    take tiger woods, please. the man was a bone-crushing juggernaut, on track to break the game’s every record, pulling down a $billion per year, happily bedding a fine-looking woman. before t s h t f, if jhk had sensed that there was something fundamentally wrong with tiger’s game or celebrity or life, could he have predicted the how and when of his collapse?
    give me a moment here, i’m misting up. i loved that man. oh, tiger. st andrews, the red shirt with the black slacks… the way his chest would ripple as he held his arms aloft… that smile, that cheerful round face which just made me feel so warm inside, you know, god’s in his heaven, the ball’s in the hole. i miss you tiger.

  745. BeantownBill March 10, 2011 at 7:16 pm #

    Thank you. It’s always nice when someone validates what you say.

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  746. lbendet March 10, 2011 at 7:25 pm #

    …”What are you, chopped liver?”…–Vlad (of all people)
    I must be having a bizarre dream that’s all I can say. (look what I started)

  747. Vlad Krandz March 10, 2011 at 7:28 pm #

    I’m jus tryin to be nice, maam. I kin be real nasty if I aim to.
    So now Wage: do you repudiate the threats of violence by the Left in Madison? It’s time for Communism to grow up and join the Human Race. And of course, repent for its previous crimes against Humanity. Why not let it start with you?

  748. Eleuthero March 10, 2011 at 7:43 pm #

    Yes, Jonathan, you’ll surely be socially
    censured if you dare to bust up talk about
    misbehaving celebs or the upcoming baseball
    season with talk of the economy, the eruption
    of the Middle East, etc.. I’m actually being
    serious here: Serious conversation is now
    a FAUX PAS … even among college grads.
    Talk must be about money, sports, weather,
    what’s on TV, or what you ate for lunch.
    The more you try to talk about substantive
    issues, the more uneasy the robots become.
    The only way they tolerate it is for you
    to do it as a quasi-stand-up act. And
    that, in itself, is a sign of the times …
    everybody wants to be entertainED but hardly
    anybody is entertainING.
    I can honestly see why men make decisions to
    enter monasteries. Many of them, like
    Thomas Merton, tire of the repetitive jibber-
    jabber that passes for conversation. Silence
    really IS golden. I suspect many Buddhist
    and Christian monastery entrants don’t give
    a damn about “God”. They just want to escape
    the heedless, frenetic, purposeless nature of
    “socializing”. They want silence and serenity.
    This goes double for me because as a teacher
    I talk for a living. I cannot wait for my
    retirement in late Spring when I can spend
    whole days saying nothing at all. When I
    do choose to talk, luckily, there are some
    beings in my area who are always up for some
    serious ontological analysis. Not many. Just
    enough to make socializing worth a fig.
    E.

  749. k-dog March 10, 2011 at 7:55 pm #

    Good link LBENDET, I especially liked this:

    The Romans could never fully understand what was befalling them and they went down kicking and screaming, always thinking that a few more legions could solve all the problems. That was also because they had no structures – research centers, universities or the like – that could alert them. We do have such structures and we have had good warnings since the time when “The Limits to Growth” was published, in 1972. But we also have structures built expressly to demonize and destroy those who bring warnings, we call them “media spin” or “media based consensus building”. These structures have been efficiently used to play down the warnings we had from “The Limits to Growth” and are being used now to play down the warning about global warming that we are received from climate scientists.

    Just like what goes on here.

  750. rippedthunder March 10, 2011 at 7:59 pm #

    I happen to like liver, especially with fava beans and a nice chianti, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjGpcEA-FyE

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  751. BeantownBill March 10, 2011 at 8:07 pm #

    The wide range of human perversity and weirdness never ceases to amaze me.

  752. lbendet March 10, 2011 at 8:12 pm #

    Yes, I’ve heard his speak on WNYC, but haven’t read his book yet. I’m prepared to be depressed by it.

  753. BeantownBill March 10, 2011 at 8:18 pm #

    For many people, maybe for most people, life seems to be a real unhappy hassle. Maybe it’s the speed and complexity of our society, or maybe people aren’t taught what’s important in life, or maybe people just don’t have the energy to talk about real issues, so they’d rather veg out and be entertained than deal with more something substantial.

  754. rippedthunder March 10, 2011 at 8:21 pm #

    I hope you realize that was not me in the clip! I have never met Jody Foster.

  755. Eleuthero March 10, 2011 at 8:49 pm #

    I think you have a point, Bill. Many people
    may use TV and pointless chatter as a kind of
    “narcotic”.
    However, I think the point here is that it
    DOES NOT WORK. TV has actually been shown
    to worsen problems like insomnia and depression.
    There’s a strong positive link between TV and
    autism. But the oddest thing to me is that
    more and more people ACT like TV characters
    i.e., monothematic, dissolute, vain, etc..
    I have used TV as a “narcotic” in the past.
    Then I got rid of my cable service. I’d had
    enough of the N * 100 fold repetition of the
    same movies or inane “reality” shows or those
    biz channels that are just shills for financial
    service companies. I must say, since canning
    this service, I actually feel like my nervous
    system is calmer. Could be a coincidence …
    but I doubt it. I go to bed earlier instead
    of clicking the remote vainly looking for
    something of value. I don’t get needlessly
    worked up after seeing a standard knife-kill
    flick.
    If you look at the clinical data, it appears
    that TV actually overstimulates rather than
    relaxes. To really get a picture of this …
    take a walk in your neighborhood and look at
    the wall of an apartment with a TV show
    obviously playing. Those images flick on and
    off at a dizzying pace!! It may SEEM relaxing
    but I’m pretty sure at this point that it’s
    almost like SMOKING … people say they’re more
    relaxed but, in fact, their blood pressure
    rises and their blood vessels constrict.
    E.

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  756. k-dog March 10, 2011 at 8:51 pm #

    “maybe people just don’t have the energy to talk about real issues, so they’d rather veg out and be entertained than deal with more something substantial”
    Maybe the problem is that with vegging out having been the end goal, the Raison d’être of our society for so long that the average citizen is unable to discuss substantial issues without coming to blows. It takes a certain sophistication to admit one’s ignorance and such people seem to be few and far between in our modern age. Perhaps is thatBook Learnin has not been in vogue for a long long time.
    Perhaps fear that one’s ignorance might be found out perpetuates ignorance in a destructive catch-22 cycle.

  757. Eleuthero March 10, 2011 at 8:56 pm #

    Bill said:
    For many people, maybe for most people, life seems to be a real unhappy hassle.
    *************************************************
    I think people have become experts at creating
    their own misery. They choose high ambition,
    ladder-climbing, status-mongering lifestyles
    and then get all weepy when their “kingdom”
    starts to crumble at the edges.
    Even the blue collar class these days want boats
    and a too-big house and a high end car. They
    watch infomercials about “Optionetics”.
    Of course, TV shows are adept at turning people
    into consumer androids but this is just as much
    a testimony to the poor critical thinking skills
    of the masses as it is of the bad ethics of the
    TV stations.
    Everybody has “champagne tastes with a beer
    wallet”. How many people really CHOOSE a
    modest lifestyle these days of their own free
    will?? Not too damned many!!! Everybody from
    barmaids to titans of industry are looking for
    a scam to get a leg up.
    E.

  758. k-dog March 10, 2011 at 9:00 pm #

    correction – Perhaps It’s that Book Learnin has not been in vogue for a long long time.
    sorry everyone

  759. Qshtik March 10, 2011 at 9:28 pm #

    Your brother sounds like an amazing man. Is he still alive? What does he think of Peak Everthing
    ==============
    Vlad,
    My brother is till alive and will be 74 in May. He is amazing, but in a way that pains me to think about, probably not in the way you meant it. I don’t know his thoughts on Peak Oil or Peak Everything. I’ll have to give some thought about whether I care to tell you more about my brother.
    As to Whites and Blacks in sports, there can be little doubt that blacks are physically superior. As you hint, it has been surprising lately to see a White guy performing well in a traditionally Black position – like running back. Usually Whites are quarterbacks, punters, place kickers or huge beefy linemen.
    I think your point about the GB Packers winning the SB with a lot of White guys is that they bring some essential element to the game, other than physical prowess, that can’t be seen with the naked eye. And your point, of course, would be, if such obvious racial-genetic differences exist in the body, why not in the mind? I agree.
    The “hot dogging” by Blacks is a real turn off and TPTB know this and have instituted rules to tone it down. The only worse turn off is when Whites imitate it. George Carlin used to do a riff on how pathetic Whites look when they try to imitate Black “cool.”

  760. Qshtik March 10, 2011 at 9:50 pm #

    within a hare’s breath (hair’s breadth 2u q)
    ================
    That’s freakin funny!

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  761. myrtlemay March 10, 2011 at 9:51 pm #

    Wow! Such vitriol! I just got back from watching Florida beat UVA at the Greensboro Coliseum, and I’m only mildly pissed that UVA lost. Close game, though. It’s how things roll down here, so I “roll” with them, best I can. Had loads of fun. Folks at the game seemed really nice, at least to me. Yeah, more than a few were over weight. Nobody was mean to me or my compadres. It’s nice to get out and see merikan folk as they are, up close and personal. Not bad folk, over all. I didn’t stand up for the ole “anthem”. “Hubby” gave me a very brief, cold stare, but WTF. I don’t respect this country anymore. Funny, though, I somehow respect the PEOPLE. Yeah, I think we still have some grit to us…about the only thing that will save our asses. Oh, tonight my recommended golden oldie is none other than Ritchie Valens’ “La Bamba” on You Tube. Made my freaking night, even if my teams lost!

  762. rippedthunder March 10, 2011 at 10:15 pm #

    Me thinks you CFN folks tend to over think the human spirit. Sure there are great thinkers, I am not one of that intellect. KISS, in our ever devolving society, will be a treasured acronym. Working with your hands instead of your minds will get you more productivity and a greater bang for the time invested. Philosophers, cosmologists, and biochemists I totally respect.They are probably in the 1% group. Give me someone to repair my tractor, shoe my horse, or make me some corn meal. That is a man I can relate to. Ah, wait a minute, I can fix my own tractor, remove that one. Plus I grow my own fava beans and make my own chianti, so watch your backs, HAHAHA, I hope you educated types don’t misinterpret my comments!

  763. trippticket March 10, 2011 at 10:33 pm #

    “I think people have become experts at creating
    their own misery.”
    I think you guys are onto something here. There seems to be an addiction among humans to misery and self-sabotage. Especially among societies that have a lot of free energy in the system, like Americans or Japanese. Was it always this way? I’ve written before about how my wife and I are systematically dumping our addictions in preparation for (and in celebration of) energy descent – first any hard drugs, a category in which I also include cigarettes, then TV, then the daily news, then pot (for me only, and only for the most part;), and now alcohol. My mind has started to turn to excessive sugar as a final frontier here lately. Then what? Is it possible that one can be addicted to breaking addictions? What happens when a habitual quitter runs out of vices? Surely there is some sort of habit-forming medication for that.
    I mean, why don’t we humans just have a natural predisposition for healthy living? It feels better. My body doesn’t hurt nearly as much when I’m sober and rested. Why must we “diet” endlessly? What is it about us that wants to catch a buzz? Why isn’t one square of chocolate enough?
    And the biggest question to me is: is there any chance that industrial humans will make it back down the energy mountain? We’re fighting reality with everything we’ve got. Even people I know who are engaged in adaptive behaviors don’t seem to want to talk about why. You know, the energetic undercurrents driving the adaptations.
    I tend to think that what my wife and I are doing is the most natural thing in the world, when you truly feel the gravity of the situation on your shoulders. But it doesn’t seem to be the norm. Even among smart people who get it. Why are misery and self-sabotage so addictive? In my opinion, if you’re not frantically learning how to feed yourself, and constantly trimming your energy use, you’re self-sabotaging in the face of what’s ahead.
    Anybody? What’s so much more important about world politics and racial relations than our own survival? Is it that their current misery makes our imminent misery seem more remote? Or are we all just masochists, plain and simple, quietly looking forward to starvation? Getting off on new heights of misery, only rarely felt by a few isolated groups of elite humans in the past. We do seem to take a rather perverse pride in our afflictions. Is our seemingly-incurable expansionary mindset simply yearning for something bigger and darker? Maybe that’s why JHK sells so well.

  764. trippticket March 10, 2011 at 10:36 pm #

    “Made my freaking night, even if my teams lost!”
    No personal offense, Ms. Myrtle, but…
    Go Gators!!

  765. trippticket March 10, 2011 at 10:43 pm #

    “I know that one can believe every single aspect of Evolutionary Theory – and still have room in one’s head for faith (Faith?) ”
    If the capitalized Faith you mentioned is Faith Hill, I still have plenty of room in my head for Faith…preferably in a short denim skirt, a transluscent white button-up, cowboy boots, and no panties.
    Or this iteration of Faith Hill works too:
    http://blogs.citypages.com/gimmenoise/Faith%20Hill.jpg
    Now that’s Faith I can get into…
    Tripp out;)

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  766. trippticket March 10, 2011 at 10:47 pm #

    Anybody want to help your old friend Tripp out and become my 30th follower?
    http://www.smallbatchgarden.blogspot.com/

  767. asoka March 10, 2011 at 10:51 pm #

    Tripp said:

    Anybody? What’s so much more important about world politics and racial relations than our own survival?

    =========
    Hi, Tripp!
    To answer your question: there is no more important activity than what you and your wife are doing. Seeing what you have accomplished, I am surprised you have any time for CFN.
    In my opinion, your permacultural pursuits are much more valuable than engaging in endless arguments over race; or endless arguments re-fighting World War II; or endless worry about debt and deficits and the future of the money supply; or endless promotion of paranoia about Muslims or Mexicans or the group imagined to be the threat of the week; or endless repetition of variations of the CFN theme: “we are so fucked!”
    You are connected to the real world; you are connected to an abundance much more valuable than gold or silver or guns and bullets.

  768. myrtlemay March 10, 2011 at 11:14 pm #

    Dedicated to Tripp, and ONLY Tripp…”Be My Baby”, by the Ronettes.

  769. messianicdruid March 11, 2011 at 12:25 am #

    “Even God Himself doesn’t forgive people who aren’t sorry. Liberals forgive everyone (except conservative Whites) because they are better than God!”
    But He can make them sorry simply by removing their delusions. Remember Saul/Paul?

  770. asoka March 11, 2011 at 12:37 am #

    MD: “But He can make them sorry simply by removing their delusions.”
    ========
    If God were powerful enough to remove my delusions, I would not be sorry.
    I would jump with joy!

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  771. Vlad Krandz March 11, 2011 at 12:41 am #

    The Tribe is important – you probably wont make it on your own or with just another person. Not if it gets really bad. And even if you do, you will naturally want more people. But which?
    Great idea about getting in shape and giving up the “drugs”. I’m trying to do the same thing. Our culture specializes in keeping people alive but without health. But people say that hard work isn’t everything – that farm workers can barely stand up straight after a few decades. Or that construction workers wear out their joints thru repetitive stress. We are naturally hunter/gatherers/gardeners – not “workers”. Specialization generall has a deleterious effect on the human frame and psyche.

  772. asoka March 11, 2011 at 12:51 am #

    Vlad asks:

    The Tribe is important – you probably wont make it on your own or with just another person. Not if it gets really bad. And even if you do, you will naturally want more people. But which?

    ===========
    I want a diverse group in my self-selected tribe, people with diverse talents, diverse knowledge, and a diverse set of skills. Variety is the spice of life.

  773. BeantownBill March 11, 2011 at 12:53 am #

    I have to agree with you on this one, E. A common emotional pathology is the need to be miseable or to suffer, as punishment for not being perfect. It’s even a focal point of a major religion: Jesus suffered for our sins.
    Why is this? One of the flaws of Western culture is the imbalance between materialism and many of the precepts of Eastern philosophy. Just as we should have a balanced diet, we should have a balanced philosophy. America places an extreme value on material accumulation and not enough of spiritual (and I don’t mean religious) living. Let’s face it, once you have the 60″ flat screen TV, where is the thrill after watching the 50th program on it?
    This addiction to materialism has probably resulted from the evolution of uncontrolled capitalism arising out of greed, which itself probably arises out of insecurity. And the insecurity arises out of our own false expectation of ourselves as somehow not worthy or competent. If we are, then bad things might happen to us, so we better get all this “stuff” before it’s too late.
    Phew! All this analysis. Sorry. I’m not against capitalism, just against the compulsion arising from the materialistic/spiritual imbalance. American “culture” makes me want to puke.
    And now to bed.

  774. Patrizia March 11, 2011 at 2:25 am #

    Your picture of modern materialism (it is not JUST American)is perfect, and your analisis too.
    I am not so drastic though.
    I do not condemn humans to try to be what they are.
    For centuries the Church and state and whatsoever have tried to transform man from the animal he is into a spiritual being which he is not.
    Sex had to be condemned because the expression of the inner animality, we shouldn´t be the image of what we are: evoluted monkeys.
    I honestly am very proud of my gorilla anchestors, I prefer to be the descendant of a gorilla than of two idiots like Adam and Eve.
    I like to read and improve my knowledge, but I like to go shopping and feel good if I look nice in my mirror.
    I enjoy a good movie or a cultural event, but I also enjoy sex and eating the food I like.
    I think the need of having more is also the need to be better and that is what they call progress.
    That is what made our gorilla anchestor to become what we are now.
    He wanted a more comfortable house, better food, he wanted to look nice to conquer more females and deep inside of his souls he wanted to have a huge screen to be able to dream to be what he was not: in a baseball game the hero of the game, in a movie the hero of the story.
    What is wrong with that?

  775. asoka March 11, 2011 at 2:37 am #

    I wish God would busy himself with doing good, using His power to take away peoples’ delusions, instead of using His power to do bad things, like bothering Japan with a magnitude-8.9 earthquake.
    Bad God!
    Stop playing with the tsunamis!

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  776. turkle March 11, 2011 at 3:01 am #

    “do you repudiate the threats of violence by the Left in Madison?”
    Oh, a bunch of angry words. How scary! Someone call Homeland Security.
    Let us ignore the epic violence already committed by the right-wing “conservative” Bush administration, like the unjustified invasion of several nations, using such unspeakable weapons as depleted uranium shells, microwave beam weapons, bunker busters, and white phosphorus.
    Pay no mind to the constant drone of right-wing shlock radio, constantly filled with direct or veiled threats of violence against its political opponents and “the liberals.” (Don’t back down…reload.)
    Ignore the yearly carnage and misery caused by the conservative lust for lax or nonexistent gun laws, which puts 30-round handguns into the hands of such mental defectives as Jared Loughner.
    The Republican plan to gut the EPA so corporations can pollute away to their heart’s content is not important.
    Please, stay fixated on what a bunch of angry, so-called “Leftists” are saying, because that’s really what’s important and affects your life. Really.
    And, btw, aren’t you a self-described fascist. Why would you have any problems with threats or acts of violence if this is the case?
    What a fuckin tool you are, Vlad. You need to wash that brain out. It is filled to the brim with complete bullshit.

  777. Patrizia March 11, 2011 at 3:19 am #

    If God listened to people´s will, I guess America would have a 10.10 earthquake.

  778. turkle March 11, 2011 at 3:25 am #

    “Do Whites have real rights or just privledges; and if they do have real rights, how is it legal for powerful Blacks and Liberals to be able to shut them down?”
    Here we go again with your inane ranting about the poor, innocent white people being victimized by the evil liberals and darkies (involved in a massive conspiracy, no doubt).
    Almost all the wealth in America is owned by whites, both in real terms and proportionally. White household incomes and assets are far above those of black households. We’re talking an order of magnitude of difference.
    Blacks make up a disproportionate population in prisons compared with their percentage in the population.
    Whites make up most of the power structure in this country, from judges to lawyers to politicians to CEOs.
    You seen any black American billionaires lately?
    So there you have modern black America: marginalized, poor, and imprisoned.
    And here you’re arguing that whitey is being “shut down.”
    How so, Vlad? What did the evil black people do to shut you down this week?
    I’m here to clue you in that your problems do not arise from the actions of dark skinned people in cahoots with nihilistic, commie, liberals working to keep you down.
    The source of your problems sits between your monitor and your chair.
    Me, I think you’re a whiny little bitch looking for someone to blame for his unhappiness.

  779. Alexandra March 11, 2011 at 4:05 am #

    It would seem Gaia’s revenge is stepping up a gear or two!
    NZ, now Japan gets hit by a large earth quake, if I were living on a hillside property in LA say, I might politely suggest it could be a smart move to call a realtor damn soon… eh?
    *sniggers*
    You see I have a personal theory that if you heat the globe up, (as we u’man critters are doing significantly) especially the oceans – then heat causes expansion – doesn’t it?
    So if you keep expanding, heating and teasing Teutonic plates what do we think could happen?
    (TLE coming to a zone near you… real soon…)

  780. old6699 March 11, 2011 at 5:03 am #

    From:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=174501
    “Stuff the Federal Government should cut”
    “let me add one to the list:
    THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT”
    I answer:
    To do what ?
    What exactly would you do with the “money saved” from these expenses ? Do you really think there are better things that could be done ? All I hear is, worldwide, everything must be cut, taxes (for the rich as usual), jobs (workers always cost too much and are worthless lazy crap anyways), health care must be cut (too many people getting sick, especially all those without jobs and insurance, why don’t they just go away or die ?), federal jobs are way too much, pay way too much, they are lazy turds, etc. Welfare queens having babies at 16, what a huge pile of crappy people, what else ? We need to pay back trillion dollar debts worldwide, therefore cut costs, cut jobs, kick all the workers out, those lazy turds who got us all into this mess. Greece must cut all of their salaries, make them make 100 euros month, same everywhere else. The fun and satisfaction people get on beating up each other, taking way from as many people as possible is mind boggling. These ideas are so accepted, never challenged, never questioned by anyone, as if they are laws of physics, natural laws from GOD himself. Cut costs, fire workers, cut pensions, “increase the age of pensions” (while we have millions of people less than 30 years old worldwide that need jobs and are kept idle, with too much time on their hands, likely to start breaking up countries like Libya (who’s next ?), we keep old hacks at work in the name of some imaginary cause and effect, that by keeping them at work, the economy is more efficient, is gaining something, total lunacy!).
    Oh, you can find a never ending list, of the need to “save”, “take away”, to “cut costs”, to get the “economy more competitive” (when the most competitive economy today in the world is Germany that is at the extreme opposite of all of these right wing cut the welfare programs). The real subtle message is, anyone who is not super rich, capitalist, a superstar entrepreneur who invented the next big thing, is a total turd that costs too much and is robbing from some “general good”, from “some general wealth”, from some “common good”.
    Well, I got news for all of you, there is no such thing as “general wealth”, or “common good”: any and all money saved by the cuts, the debts, the layoffs, you name it, all of that will go directly and squarely into the hands of the already super rich, you can be sure. Nothing at all “better” will ever be done with it, since better today means only better to some super rich capitalist, all other programs are a “huge waste”, any program like a new extensive BUS system across the USA is BAD, any program for cheap rents is BAD, any program hiring millions of idle workers is BAD (there goes out the window your “competition”, which essentially means, kick the ass of the guy next to you, etc.).
    Also, someone talked about “meritocracy”. This is a fine word that really means I want to be better than you, and really want to kick your ass, lazy crap, not because I am better and already have more than you because of my talent and drive for hard work. There is this idea that equality is BAD, but everyone must strive to be equal to the best, which is rediculous: everyone has their own level and talent.

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  781. Patrizia March 11, 2011 at 5:23 am #

    Also you forget that : they have to lower the standard of living.
    It is too high.
    Every person in 2011 dares to have access to a computer, has the plumbing in the house, has the central heating, has a house bought with a mortgage, has even electricity and washing machines.
    In Pompei before Christ was born they already had the central plumbing with hot water!
    But we, lazy and wasting resources people, should go back to live like 200 years ago, without heating, without electricity, or TV or a computer, if possible also without a house.
    200 years history wiped out, just because we dare to take advantage of the new technologies.
    They were invented just to be used and enjoyed by a restricted number of elected people.
    I forgot the telephone and the Internet.
    Didn´t people some time ago live without them?
    So…

  782. old6699 March 11, 2011 at 5:45 am #

    What you call “free energy in the system” is really EXCESS CAPACITY, is excess wealth, free time, more food than you need, less real productive labor than you would want to have, too much information, too much education, too much thoughts and games, too much complexity, in a never ending maze of information technology, conflicting information, conflicting choices – politics, confusing ideas, Mass Media, movies, books, etc. brought to you by the application of Science and Technology to all productive endeavors.
    This state of being seems unnatural to our measly human brains that evolved for thousands of years in probably simpler – limited environments – societies, where the rules were probably (since I don’t really know since I haven’t lived in them), simpler, less conflictual and contradictory internally. Granted, they were probably violent beasts and all, but anyways…
    What I am getting at, is that this global – social Technological Economy has no choice but to go forward, ever more and ever faster, by creating ever more ambitious programs and endeavors, putting to work, in real productive activities millions of young people worldwide: make them build skyscrapers, rockets to Mars, let them build everything: keeps their minds and hands occupied, and they don’t kill each other. But to do this, you must get rid of a great part of all of the present day right wing mythology, you have to make an environment that includes and uses as many people as possible at all levels and trades: the exact opposite of what is constantly chanted by the right wing and mass media that wants to exclude as many people as possible because of a never ending array of excuses (skill sets, competition, age, not educated enough, etc.).

  783. hillwalker March 11, 2011 at 7:19 am #

    Hey K-dog;
    Yeah, CFLs are,, interesting.
    What I don’t like about them:
    They are orders of magnitude more complex than an incandescent. In grade school, I made an incandescent as a sci project. Lower order of technology, by a long shot.
    There is no recycling for them, they are trash.
    They are all pretty much made in far far away lands, and have huge transportation overhead.
    They do not have the life it says in the brochure.
    What I think is a wash:
    They do contain mercury, they do break and release this mercury in our living space.
    However, this amount is pretty tiny compared to the atmospheric mercury that is pretty much in everything as the result of burning huge amounts of coal pretty much everywhere. If we want to address mercury, we need to look at that.
    What I think is a win:
    They do use significantly less power for the same illumination.
    But like all of this stuff, Jevon’s Paradox comes into it pretty much immediately. Freeing up energy consumption at the end of the chain by deploying this technology, creates a ‘surplus’ (on paper) which gets the growth-without-end-amen crowd all worked up. “If we can save X%, then we can build X-more WartMall strip malls!”
    I personally haven’t seen an end-to-end comparison for total life-of-product energy sunk into a CFL. It’s my intuitive guess (based on a cursory grasp of industrial process) that they don’t actually add up anywhere near where they are advertised. That there is a huge upfront energy cost in their manufacture that isn’t being discussed.
    On the other hand, I have some real empirical experience. A few years back I replaced a few dozen commercial light strings that are used at least once a year for a medium sized river festival with CFLs. The energy use for the festival dropped to a mere fraction. The final result? The demands for power grew to make up the difference. Jevon’s again.
    I think the same criticisms can be leveled at the emerging ‘screw in replacement’ LEDs that are showing up in the marketplace. i own a few of these, and they are ‘okay’ as light bulbs go. Spendy (like the early CFLs) the light is nicer, but less powerful. The lamps themselves are more robust, but even more complex.
    CFLs are no panacea. No sir, not at all. I use them, and encourage others to do the same. A fix? hardly. I can tell you with all fairness that it’s a lot easier to run them if you are making your own power than it is to run an incandescent.
    But ‘regular’ fluorescents are modular, (not the bulbs of course, but the entire system taken as whole), are a lower level of technology, and work fine. been around for a while.
    They also have the same recycling issues, here in the US anyway, and the same ‘gimme light, and gimme it right now’ ‘flip-a-switch’ lifestyle issues.
    blah blah blah.
    And I don’t think there is a cabal of serious men sitting about in a darkened smoke filled room rubbing their palms together, chuckling in glee at their master plan of depriving the world of the incandescent bulb.
    No, what I see is band aide approaches to gigantic challenges.
    I think doing away with the 100w incandescent is a win in the long term. But I don’t expect it to actually fix anything. Expecting this sort of move to actually fix anything is just like gutting the funding to the NEA to fix the economic issues facing the country today. Pointless.

  784. trippticket March 11, 2011 at 7:35 am #

    Nice rant to wake up to! Well said.

  785. trippticket March 11, 2011 at 7:38 am #

    You are so close to being onto something, yet somehow you miss the mark by a solar system or so.

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  786. MarlinFive54 March 11, 2011 at 7:40 am #

    Hey Asoka;
    Nice analysis of Tripptickets spread down there in Dixie, and what he is trying to accomplish! Succinct and accurate! You seem to be as impressed as I am. It shows me what is possible with a little hard work and discipline. (And Knowledge)!
    I’m trying to duplicate something like that using the Yankee model in a less hospitable climate and different traditions. Actually I remember many small family farms here when I was a kid in the 60’s. They are now extinct, buried underneath a miasma of pavement, strip malls and McMansions.
    Now what I’ve got to do, with the time I have left, is what my parents told me to do years ago: buckle down, put my nose to the grindstone, suck it up, keep my mouth shut and eyes open … stuff like that. Also I have to get my wife on-board and away from the Oprah Winfrey Network. How could I go wrong?
    You mention all the other subjects on CFN which might be considered superfluous for a site like this. The way I look at it people just want to get things off their chest. I enjoy reading most of it … people around the Country from many different backgrounds responding to ‘Peak Oil’ in different ways.
    I’m reminded of a quote by Wolfgang Goethe. I don’t remember it exactly but it says something about like minded people in different locations communicating and coming together to form new and better worlds.
    -Marlin
    ————————————————–
    Looks like the Japan earthquake has pushed everything else out of the news. What about todays scheduled ‘Day of Rage’ in Saudi Arabia? That would seem to warrant some attention.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  787. lbendet March 11, 2011 at 7:57 am #

    E.,
    Your comment on misery is very apt. My personal take on it: that we experience great joy and misery alike and it’s less a comment on modern society and more a part of our psyche.
    Throughout my life I have known some very wealthy people for whom money is no object. It’s not discussed or even considered in any context that I could grasp, there just nothing to hold them back from doing what they want. There are few money constrains, so they’re not used to boundaries in the sense that most of us are. One would think life is easy for these people, but oddly it was in many cases worse-and I gotta tell you, I’m not envious.
    I came to the realization that if you don’t have to go to work and make a living, you will, in fact create your own problems. Or whatever issues you have get over-blown because there’s less daily interactions to take your mind off what your mommy said to you 20 years ago.
    It’s hard to make qualitative judgments on what would make us all happy, because I don’t think that’s possible. What you see as wrong in society makes someone else very fulfilled, or so they believe…
    _______________________
    ps I like to create art, read and watch TV–and I love journalism when it’s done right –and I like reading between the lines of what they tell you. TV doesn’t have to be mindless and you don’t have to buy into what they’re telling you.
    It’s still important to me what quality of information my fellow voters are getting. That’s how I understand why they’re doing such a poor job in getting things done for “We the people.”

  788. trippticket March 11, 2011 at 8:13 am #

    “The Tribe is important – you probably wont make it on your own or with just another person. Not if it gets really bad. And even if you do, you will naturally want more people. But which?”
    No doubt, well said. Right now we’re adjusting our own oxygen masks first, then we’ll try to help the other passengers. We already have the farm owners who recruited us to come live here on our side, and we have 300 acres on which to build a village. Our notoriety is quietly waxing in this area, and it’s drawing the attention of some fine people. The rest of our tribe will slowly find us, and I hope we’ll be ready for them when that time comes. We’re returning 60 acres of industrial cotton production to longleaf pine savannah next year, and I’m liking the way that change is going to create a more natural hunter/gatherer/gardener environment around here. If my children can acquire 50% of their calories from outside of their gardens, in the wilder areas of the farm, I’ll feel like my time has been well spent. What I wouldn’t give for a life like that!
    Radical behavioral innovation will draw the right people, but the important part is that it happens slowly.

  789. trippticket March 11, 2011 at 8:21 am #

    8M, there’s a Buckminster Fuller quote on my blog that says:
    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”
    I’m just curious as to what’s new about the model you promote. It seems radical at first glance, but it’s really just an expansion of the same ol’ same ol’. The permacultural model we promote is a wholesale departure from Cartesian dualism and its subsidiary sky god religions, extreme linear thought, and agriculture, in favor of reintegration with Nature’s cyclical abundance and agnostic pantheism. You see simple subsistence farming, but it’s a radical departure from everything the growth world was based on. Including farming itself really.
    I’m not trying to “out-radical” you, just suggesting that you are stuck in a 10,000 year old rut.

  790. lbendet March 11, 2011 at 8:26 am #

    Alexandra,
    I just saw the news and the huge earthquake out at sea close enough to Japan to create a big tsunami. It is now headed for Hawaii and the west coast. I’m not sure how our climate effects plate tectonics, since the heat under the earth’s surface is greater than the temperature of the air anyway. How would the air temperature effect deep geological activity?
    I think things shift around regardless of us. We’re just not that important.

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  791. progressorconserve March 11, 2011 at 8:44 am #

    Ronald Reagan – From the standpoint of sustainability and planetary survival – was the worst president in American history.
    But they gave his name to one hell of a nice aircraft carrier. That carrier is now in route to Japan to lend humanitarian aid. There are good things that will happen in the next few days because of the ship RR and the US military.
    We will never live in a world without military power. All we can do is what we can, to make our US military smaller – and deployed more for peace.
    =====================
    Unrelated note – I’ll bet you guys that the US stock market goes down this morning then much higher over the next week or two – Because of Japan. Disaster is good for business.
    Best of luck to everyone today, especially you west coasters. Don’t we have a CFN’er at Crescent City, CA. Neat place – but head inland, pretty quick!
    And to you Atheists – is it OK to wish someone good luck? That is certainly based on pure superstition.
    Good thoughts – nope
    Positive mental energy – nah
    You are on your own – That’s it, I suppose!
    – not sure that’s gonna provide much comfort before help arrives –
    Not picking a fight – just trying to understand.
    Have a nice day, anyway, CFN.

  792. welles March 11, 2011 at 8:49 am #

    Material Rehash alert 2067: Cheez Doodles mentioned, plus the usual railing against the conservative radio hosts, while obama gets failing marks only for not saying we need to use less oil, and maybe not bitch slapping the bankers.
    yeah if only we had the ‘left’ running things (yes the ‘right’ is just as bad).
    btw mr. will is far too intelligent to engage in petty squabbles with bratty kunstler.
    so this week we’re all doomed again by a lack of oil — yet again. wake me up when “the shtf” and “things will change forever”.
    tired shtik it is. don’t look to kunstler for anything beyond stale criticism & the odd nifty phrase.
    so what the phuq if araby is in tumult, they need money too, they’ll sell their damn oil one way or another, and we’ll buy it and motor on, as kunstler does, incessantly galavanting off to australia or upper new york state spewing tons of nasty greenhouse gases or zipping up and down the highway in his motorcar while feeling so superior to the folks he thoroughly enjoys bludgeoning to metaphorical death each week, nice guy that huh?
    betcha he gets all nice and purty when he needs a plumber or someone to get their hands dirty cuz he’s writing another of his depressingly bad ‘novels’ or ‘plays’.
    yeah kunstler there *are* lots of muttonheads in the US, but lots of smart honest people too, who’re way ahead of you on adapting to the new exigencies and who’ll save your sadsack self when you’ve exhausted the last drop of gasoline from the local filling station, which everyone can glean you will do.
    shalom to all

  793. lbendet March 11, 2011 at 8:50 am #

    Yup, Disaster Capitalism at work! Can’t wait to see the private developers/contractors come in and do their thing.

  794. SNAFU March 11, 2011 at 8:51 am #

    Clusterfuckers,
    Have we perchance come to place in the space-time continuum where we might want to lighten up and step back from the vitriolic rhetoric a bit. We have posters threatening to shoot “mouth breathers”, rip arms off and beat one another to death, resume U.S. Civil War (the war referred to by most Americans above the Mason Dixon line as the Civil War and those to the south of it as the War of Northern Aggression) battlefield activities, …….
    I believe I will go back to lurking for a while, maybe.
    To aid with the lightening up find below a few quotes from everyone’s favorite president:
    A Few Classic Bushisms:
    If we don’t succeed, we run the risk of failure.
    Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child.
    I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy, but that could change.
    One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Governor, and that one word is ‘to be prepared’.
    I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future.
    We’re going to have the best educated American peoples in the world.
    I am not part of the problem. I am a Republican
    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls.
    We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur.
    For NASA, space is still a high priority.
    We’re all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you on the mistakes we may or may not have made.
    It isn’t pollution that’s harming the environment. It’s the impurities in our air and water that are doing it.
    I stand by all the misstatements that I’ve made.
    SNAFU

  795. MarlinFive54 March 11, 2011 at 8:52 am #

    Ripthunder;
    Sounds like you’re creating something pretty special up there in Western Mass.! 300 acres! Wow.
    Are you aware of the history of Brook Farm, also in Mass., an early, 19th century attempt of rural semi communal living by some transcendalists and Unitarians from the Boston area?
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post #1
    New England Chapter

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  796. messianicdruid March 11, 2011 at 8:57 am #

    “If God were powerful enough to remove my delusions, I would not be sorry.”
    Be careful what you ask for, then begin repenting and rejoicing.

  797. progressorconserve March 11, 2011 at 9:03 am #

    “I think things shift around regardless of us. We’re just not that important.”
    -lbend-
    I concur, Lbend. But I’m glad you said that. Because a deeply analytical CFN reader might think that TPTB were in cahoots with tectonic forces. And that the Japanese quake was arranged to cover up the “Day of Rage,” and maybe something about the plot to deny America’s access to incandescent light bulbs.
    ===============
    Now, to ask a serious question – any students of geophysics and geology out there. They keep saying that the recent 4.5 earthquake in Hawaii is unrelated to this Japanese one. That’s probably true – given the location of Hawaii over that hot spot in the middle of the Pacific Plate.
    But – is there any evidence for earthquake “swarms” in Earth’s history. At some point, in theory, a SEVERE earthquake would destabalize earthquake zones over a large area – possibly sending tectonic “fingers of instability” all over the globe.
    It’s just a thought. Something to bedevil the worrywarts on CFN for a while. hah!

  798. lbendet March 11, 2011 at 9:21 am #

    Indeed,
    And I hope I didn’t sound too flip before about disaster capitalism. There are 300 casualties in Japan so far–a real sobering toll. There’s also issues now about their nuclear power plants. They were just reporting that the cooling process has shut down and they will be checking for leaks.–Just another added nightmare piled on top of the first. So many moving parts to this…

  799. lbendet March 11, 2011 at 9:23 am #

    Hope our CNF friends on the West Coast will be safe from flooding!

  800. Alexandra March 11, 2011 at 9:33 am #

    Thailand, Iceland, Haiti, NZ… and now Japan…
    All bigger than usual ‘events’ over the last decade. What do we get next, a fresh big eruption down there on La Palma? Which then triggers a predicted mega-tsunami – a massive dome of water – over a mile high created deep within the Atlantic?
    Due to the dislodging of an unstable 12-mile-long slab of rock – which would crash to the ocean floor – this slab is already slipping down by infinitesimal degrees at the mo, but it is expected that when it finally ‘goes’ it will take less than 90 seconds… then half a day later kiss-goodbye to Manhattan… lol
    (The perfect target for an al-Qaeda planted dooms-day nuclear device)
    I’m not usually the betting type, but ‘activity’ does seem to be on the up-scale currently, like sun-spots that wax and wane on cycles…
    So if you do live on a known fault line or volcanic atoll CFN’ers… I’d say extra vigilance, might actually pay orf?
    Be seeing you…

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  801. asoka March 11, 2011 at 9:33 am #

    ProCon said: “At some point, in theory, a SEVERE earthquake would destabalize…”
    ============
    Isn’t 8.9 severe enough?
    Do not give God any ideas.

  802. orionoir March 11, 2011 at 9:39 am #

    jodi’s actually quite a nice gal. once when i was stalking her she went out of her way to hold open this heavy iron gate for me. i carried her books all the way to her dorm, even though i was headed for the other side of campus.
    there was a really cool dance that night at skull & bones, i said we could go. she thought maybe. she had to check with her dad, he was still kind of pissed about his toolbox, she ran over it because he left in the driveway, as if he’s he not always telling her to put her shit away?
    i might come by around eight? i would give mrs foster one of my mom’s begonia pots. maybe i’d tell her dad about how my sister juli works part-time at sears, she could grab him a craftsman box, anodized steel with industrial latches and shit. mr foster always wants to talk about trojan football, i’ll say something about the stanford game, how it ended. this isn’t usc’s year. last year wasn’t either.
    i like the way jodi smells. not like all perfumey, but like you know she showers regularly, probably uses body wash or shower gel, whatever. i dated a girl in high school who didn’t shave her pits, i didn’t know about that. her name was alicia.
    i said, alicia, you not shaving your pits, i don’t know about that. but jodi’s not like that.

  803. orionoir March 11, 2011 at 9:42 am #

    as the italian seismologist said after indonesia 2004, tutta la terra sta vibrando.

  804. asoka March 11, 2011 at 9:43 am #

    Marlin said: “I’m trying to duplicate something like that using the Yankee model in a less hospitable climate and different traditions.”
    =============
    I’m trying to reproduce it in my backyard (15′ x 40) in a desert clime with 12 to 15 inches annual precipitation combined with container gardening in a sun room off the side of the house.

  805. MarlinFive54 March 11, 2011 at 9:54 am #

    Yeah, SNAFU, President Bush sure was stupid. We’ll be conjuring up yucks from his quotes for a long time.
    He just didn’t have that brilliant elocution of the tenured Marxist bullshitters I listened to for 4 years at State U as a history major. Those fu—rs could talk a blue streak but I never could figger out what the hell they were saying to me.
    Pundits used to make fun a Andrew Jackson the same way. Another dumb southerner partial to Texas.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

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  806. asoka March 11, 2011 at 10:01 am #

    Worse than stupid, Bush was incompetent and uncaring.
    He waited four days before responding during Katrina while people died. (umm, Black people died)
    The tsunami is expected to affect the USA west coast by 8 am this morning. At 4 am Obama had issued a statement and issued orders to FEMA and the military…
    4 hours early instead of 4 days late is the difference between competence and incompetence.

  807. Cash March 11, 2011 at 10:19 am #

    You say about the wealthy:
    “One would think life is easy for these people, but oddly it was in many cases worse”
    I’ve seen that. Money solves problems but seems to create as many as it solves. The idle rich look for trouble and seem to be greatly talented at finding it.

  808. MarlinFive54 March 11, 2011 at 10:19 am #

    Yeah, Asoka, Obama is the Messiah, here to save the world. I wouldn’t expect any less.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  809. trippticket March 11, 2011 at 10:19 am #

    One point I want to clarify before I get the wrong people insinuating the wrong things about my earlier statement to 8M is this:
    Agriculture/farming was a brilliantly successful societal mode when resource availability was waxing. Farming fascilitated higher population densities, which fostered community, common religion and politics, and military might by which to overpower and subdue non-farming peoples. (It also fascilitated epidemic diseases, cancer, famine, and serial killers, so don’t pat that back too hard.) Farming has always depended on expansion of resources, expansion of markets, and expansion of populations, which is why you see TPTB (denizens of agriculture really) hell-bent on perpetuating those things.
    But when we run up against legitimate limits to growth, which is our current predicament, regardless of what people who are wildly out of touch with physics will say, the whole expansionary agricultural paradigm collapses. Former Secretary of Agriculture, Earl Butz, is famous for his message to farmers, “get big or get out,” and during the growth phase he couldn’t have been more correct. Problem is, ol’ Mr. Butz’s maxim is horseshit in a contractionary paradigm. Get big or get out only works when there is plenty of land, people, and cheap energy to rape.
    I’ve heard that every acre of production land farmed in the industrial mode requires the equivalent of 4 acres of support land. Too bad Mars and Venus don’t have any accessible water, oxygen, biomass, soil humus, fungal networks, evolutionarily-appropriate atmospheric pressure…
    So when I rally against something as seemingly innocent as farming, I rally against the idea that perpetual expansion is even possible, much less desirable. If we’re in the midst of the sixth mass extinction of life on Earth, and we are by all respectable accounts, it’s only a matter of time before the medium-sized, big-brained, bipedal primate omnivore with serious mineral requirements in his diet joins the list. We’re as high-maintenance as it gets.
    As the biosphere’s constituent cogs are eliminated, the mineral cycle breaks down. The “average American moron” that so many here love to bash, is proof positive of a decaying mineral cycle. As are dead estuaries, “blue baby syndrome,” wild weather…
    The idea that “simple societies,” as 8M so ignorantly calls them, were or are somehow inferior to industrial peoples, is just an arrogant monoculture of the mind. The mineral cycles in areas with sparser population densities are more robust, and that improves human brain function. These people are not your intellectual juniors, they just either weren’t raised with the same value system, or have rejected yours out of hand.
    And honestly, I can’t blame them! The industrial world is full of assholes who simply assume that their culture, riding along with a very successful military-industrial package, has some inherent and universal superiority to it. It doesn’t. It’s just a militarily-powerful local culture gone global. It’s all about horsepower really. We should get over ourselves before we wipe out the other, equally valuable, cultures on this wonderfully diverse planet in favor of more strip malls, SUVs, and mega churches.
    Fortunately, energy descent is just the ticket.

  810. tictoc March 11, 2011 at 10:27 am #

    Loved your description of the tour of the JellyBean factory! That will stick with me for a long time as apt imagery for our times. (My aunt stopped eating ice cream after working in an ice cream factory.)

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  811. progressorconserve March 11, 2011 at 10:27 am #

    Random stuff –
    Too windy to finish burning this morning. Planted the broccoli and lettuce yesterday. This winter almost killed the turnips and kale – but they are now coming back with enthusiasm.
    I was watching CNN and this newswoman says, “…400 kilometers from the epicenter of the earthquake to downtown Tokyo – so that’s like 50 miles….”
    Some people should not ad lib when mathematics is involved. She was cute, though.
    Just remembered we have a close family friend in Tokyo. Here’s a paraphrased facebook exchange between Tokyo and Georgia:
    Tokyo: “Yeah, this morning I bought a Buddhist good luck pendant. Two hours later a building almost fell on my head.”
    Georgia: “Wow – Imagine what would have happened if you hadn’t bought that pendant!”
    also from another party in Georgia: “Young man! This is your mother speaking. You get out of Tokyo right this second and you come home!!”
    ==========
    He’s a tough self-reliant man, a hunting buddy of my kids and myself. He’s also pretty close to brilliant. (robotics engineer) He’ll be OK if anyone will – he might even do some good, since he’s found himself in this situation.
    But it is a strange feeling to be in close, instantaneous communication with him – yet unable to do a damn thing about it, and then to go out and weed the kale and turnips.

  812. newworld March 11, 2011 at 10:28 am #

    Give up the anti-white nonsense and you might have it, other than that you will live in a Detroit where the official religion is hate whitey.

  813. newworld March 11, 2011 at 10:31 am #

    “Gun laws” most violent crime is committed by Democratic constituents, you might have a point.
    Stop blaming conservative whites for the failures of liberalism/socialism/communism. You are like the Nazis who blamed jews for everything or the Stalinists who murdered under the rubric of rooting out the enemies of utopia.

  814. lbendet March 11, 2011 at 10:35 am #

    Tripp,
    I do enjoy your posts today especially. What you’re doing is really great. While helping to plan my high sch. reunion, I have recently discovered that quite a few people I grew up with are running small farms. They are outfitted with some solar and geothermal energy to augment their on the grid electrical power. I appreciate some details they’re sharing with me and hope to post some of their stories on this blog.
    ————
    Cash,
    What I was saying about the rich is in no way to denigrate them in particular, but to point out that it is in our nature to manufacture problems where the usual fight for survival seems to have been removed.
    There’s so much more to the way we process struggles in our lives than materiality.

  815. Cash March 11, 2011 at 10:35 am #

    You know, you’re right about liver. There’s not many foods I don’t like and liver is one of them. But I missed the obvious. Dress it up and it won’t taste so bad.

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  816. asoka March 11, 2011 at 10:40 am #

    Obama is from the government and he is there to help.

  817. Cash March 11, 2011 at 10:51 am #

    man oh man Wage,
    Guys of my generation, especially small towners, would rather have their ass in a frying pan than utter the L word. In public, in front of others, we have to be men of few words, you know, strong silent types. Never show fear. It’s OK to show anger though. Didn’t you know? Haven’t you watched any cowboy movies? When my wife was sick, from my outward demeanor, you could have mistaken me for a tree stump. My mother thinks I have ice for blood. So there you go, I’m a walking, talking aneurysm waiting to blow.

  818. MarlinFive54 March 11, 2011 at 10:52 am #

    Asoka;
    Anyway, good luck on that small plot of yours in the Southwest.
    This is certainly a big country with different conditions everywhere.
    There’s a lot of good sources for information on what you’re doing. I’ve found Mother Earth News to be about the best. Talk about getting back to the basics.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  819. rippedthunder March 11, 2011 at 11:16 am #

    Mornin’ Marlin, I wish I had 300 acres to play with. I think you were talking about Trippticket’s project and it indeed sounds like a grand plan. If anyone can pull it off I would place my bet on him. He really seems to have done his homework.

  820. wagelaborer March 11, 2011 at 11:26 am #

    Geez, Cash, I try to give you a compliment and you freak out.
    Not in front of the guys!
    It’s not like I spit on my hand and slicked your cowlick down, or something.

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  821. asoka March 11, 2011 at 11:36 am #

    Marlin,
    I also wish you the best on your projects. I did a comparison of Westfield, Massachusetts with where I am for heating degree days.
    Thanks for the Mother Earth News tip. I’ll check it out.

  822. asoka March 11, 2011 at 11:37 am #

    Had to split the comment because of a “held by owner for approval” message. Here is the rest:
    Westfield, Massachusetts has 6294 heating degrees. Where I am has 4639 heating degrees (this is fahrenheit-based heating degree days for a base temperature of 65F)
    Then there is the adobe construction here in the Southwest, with its thermal mass and passive solar heating. So I don’t have to spend as much on home space heating as folks up north.

  823. Qshtik March 11, 2011 at 11:39 am #

    I want a diverse group in my self-selected tribe, people with diverse talents, diverse knowledge, and a diverse set of skills. Variety is the spice of life.
    ================
    Asoka wants the Mexicans to do the day labor,
    the Asian Indians to do the tech support,
    the Filipinos to do the housekeeping,
    the Jews to do the bank reconciliations,
    the Whites to do the thinking,
    and the Blacks to do the basketball.
    😉

  824. asoka March 11, 2011 at 11:39 am #

    P.S.
    Here is the heating degree days calculator in case you want to generate a reading for where you live:
    http://www.degreedays.net/#generate

  825. Cash March 11, 2011 at 11:43 am #

    Well, thanks for the compliment.

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  826. asoka March 11, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    Qshtik, funny you should select those groups.
    I have members of all of those nationalities in my tribe, albeit not for the functions you arbitrarily assign.

  827. wagelaborer March 11, 2011 at 11:58 am #

    I think that people prefer to be happy. That is why they watch TV and take drugs.
    Charlie Sheen can afford more drugs than the average person. That’s the difference.
    Talking to people is more boring than watching TV because there are brilliant, funny people writing the scripts.
    I usually talk about what I’m interested in, or I don’t talk at all. Other people will respond to you, no matter what you say, usually.
    But one day at work, someone mentioned solid ground and I pointed out that actually, we are floating on plates of solid rock on a inner core of molten metal (I didn’t know then that the core of Earth is actually oil), and the plates can shift at any time.
    Talk about a conversation stopper!! Everyone just turned and stared at me as if I had said something outrageous.

  828. trippticket March 11, 2011 at 11:59 am #

    Please do post updates about your small farming friends. Always good to hear what other folks are doing/able to do. Ten years ago the current trends in relocalization and food production would have been unthinkable. Today, growing and preserving, sewing, keeping livestock, curing, baking, etc, has almost become a hip thing to do!
    Check out this NYT article if you have time:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/us/06farmers.html?ex=1315198800&en=26fd6d4d66d45048&ei=5087&WT.mc_id=%20NYT-E-I-NYT-E-AT-0309-L28
    It’s just another extension of our story. My 20th HS reunion is this year! I can’t believe it…where does the time go?

  829. wagelaborer March 11, 2011 at 12:03 pm #

    One time I went to a conference in St Louis, and I chose to car-pool with “the three cheerleaders”, as I called them. They were shallow women, and I wanted to be in the car like a little mouse and listen to what regular people talked about.
    My other co-workers were amazed that I would go with them. I have kind of a image that doesn’t seem to fit with them.
    So, anyway, they talked about shopping and restaurants, in case anyone wants to know.
    It was pretty boring.

  830. trippticket March 11, 2011 at 12:17 pm #

    “But it is a strange feeling to be in close, instantaneous communication with him – yet unable to do a damn thing about it, and then to go out and weed the kale and turnips.”
    My wife and I refer to this as living in 2 different worlds. She’s better at it than I am. Almost every time I sign off of CFN or Small Batch, I wonder if I’ll make it back across the event horizon for another comment or post. I often wonder how damaging it is for the human psyche to live in two such different worlds.
    Does the garden suffer more from the anomolous connectivity of its steward? Or does correspondence suffer more from the steward’s currently-abnormal connection to Nature? Being able to live successfully in both is a rare gift. People like Barbara Pleasant, Michael Pollan, and Paul Stamets come immediately to mind.

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  831. asoka March 11, 2011 at 12:18 pm #

    Wage said: “(I didn’t know then that the core of Earth is actually oil)”
    =============
    Wage, the word “core” sounds so clinical, harsh, hard, as in “hard core”
    To avoid confusion wouldn’t it be better to use “the center of the earth is an oil-filled creamy nougat” (also known as the abiogenic theory)?

    The idea that petroleum is formed from dead organic matter is known as the “biogenic theory” of petroleum formation and was first proposed by a Russian scientist almost 250 years ago.
    In the 1950’s, however, a few Russian scientists began questioning this traditional view and proposed instead that petroleum could form naturally deep inside the Earth.
    This so-called “abiogenic” petroleum might seep upward through cracks formed by asteroid impacts to form underground pools, according to one hypothesis. Some geologists have suggested probing ancient impact craters in the search for oil.
    Abiogenic sources of oil have been found, but never in commercially profitable amounts. The controversy isn’t over whether naturally forming oil reserves exist, said Larry Nation of the American Association of Petroleum Geologists. It’s over how much they contribute to Earth’s overall reserves and how much time and effort geologists should devote to seeking them out.
    If abiogenic petroleum sources are indeed found to be abundant, it would mean Earth contains vast reserves of untapped petroleum and, since other rocky objects formed from the same raw material as Earth, that crude oil might exist on other planets or moons in the solar system, scientists say.

  832. wagelaborer March 11, 2011 at 12:21 pm #

    Are you kidding me, Vlad?
    What leftist threats?
    State governors all over the country are rolling back worker’s rights,in order to give corporations tax breaks and welfare, and you make up a non-existent threat and ask me to repudiate it?
    Stand up, ye prisoners of capital!

  833. wagelaborer March 11, 2011 at 12:25 pm #

    And as we suck out the creamy nougat, will that have any affect on the rocks on which we perch?
    I have heard speculation that fracking in Arkansas may be contributing to an increase in earthquakes there.

  834. BeantownBill March 11, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

    Perhaps I should try to explain myself a little more clearly. It is obvious we are animals and we do have animalism within us. However, I disagree that we are not spiritual beings. We are endowed with intelligence and awareness which informs us of the beauty and awe of the universe. Appreciation of beauty is certainly a spiritual thing; it is not physical.
    So I guess we are both animal and spirit – but spiritual in the sense of our appreciation of the world around us, not in the religious sense.
    My problem with Western civilization is the strong reliance on the materialistic side of our nature at the expense of the spiritual side. That imbalance is what causes many of the issues we face today, IMO.
    BTW, I do indulge my animal side – I LOVE sex, I like buying things, I love taking a ride on our own autobahns in my 2 seat sports car at 110+ mph.
    But I try to be consciously thankful each day for being alive and for the universe allowing me to experience it.

  835. trippticket March 11, 2011 at 12:32 pm #

    By the way, thanks LewisLucanBooks, for being my 30th follower!!

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  836. wagelaborer March 11, 2011 at 12:35 pm #

    Speaking of TV fantasy writing, have you ever noticed that TV news seems to pick random events to explain stock market movements?
    My husband and I get a kick out of it.
    Unemployment goes up, unemployment goes down, someone makes a speech, there’s a riot somewhere, oil prices go up or down, a dog gets lost, a cat is saved from a tree, they seem to have a board on which the day’s events are posted and then they throw a dart at it, and the talking head has to say it with a straight face.
    After which, I’m sure, when the cameras are turned off, the entire team collapses in laughter.

  837. asoka March 11, 2011 at 12:37 pm #

    BTB said:

    My problem with Western civilization is the strong reliance on the materialistic side of our nature at the expense of the spiritual side.

    This reminds me of a joke. A North American and a Brazilian are standing in front of a waterfall.
    The Brazilian says: What magnificent beauty!
    The North American says: What a magnificent potential source of hydroelectric power!

  838. asoka March 11, 2011 at 12:46 pm #

    Wage, there may be a relationship between fracking and earthquakes. It’s not just Arkansas. Consider this excerpt from an article in the Houston Chronicle last year about Texas earthquakes.

    CLEBURNE – The earth moved here on June 2. It was the first recorded earthquake in this Texas town’s 140-year history – but not the last. There have been four earthquakes since, none with a magnitude greater than 2.8. The most recent ones came Tuesday night, just as the City Council was in an emergency session to discuss what to do about the ground moving.
    The council’s solution was to hire a geology consultant to try to answer the question on everyone’s mind: Is natural gas drilling – which began in earnest here in 2001 and has brought great prosperity to Cleburne and other towns across North Texas – causing the quakes?

    On May 16, three quakes shook Bedford, a suburb of Dallas and Fort Worth. Two small earthquakes hit nearby Grand Prairie and Irving on Oct. 31, and again on Nov. 1.
    The towns sit upon the Barnett Shale, a geologic formation that is perhaps the nation’s richest natural gas field. The area is estimated to have 30 trillion cubic feet of recoverable gas and provides about 7 percent of the country’s supply.

    “Drilling might be culprit behind Texas quakes: some say the ‘fracking’ process is the main cause.” Houston Chronicle

  839. Qshtik March 11, 2011 at 12:53 pm #

    Farming fascilitated higher population densities, ….
    (It also fascilitated epidemic diseases,
    So when I rally against something as seemingly innocent as farming, I rally against the idea that perpetual expansion is even possible, much less desirable.
    ================
    No offense Trip (btw, you seem to be doing a fine job down on the farm in Jawjuh) but I figured you’d like to know the following:
    facilitated
    rail
    –verb (used without object)
    1. to utter bitter complaint or vehement denunciation (often followed by at or against): to rail at fate.

  840. asoka March 11, 2011 at 12:56 pm #

    Earthquake/Tsunami reminds us of Futility of War

    Every once in a while, amidst our petty wars and squabbles with each other, Nature reminds us that the real threat to humankind comes from her, not from other human beings. Climate change is human-driven, but its danger is in unleashing uncontrollable natural forces of immense power. We are still defenseless against a meteor strike of the sort that helped polish off the dinosaurs. And, we lack good defenses against tsunamis. Unless we can put aside our divisions and work effectively together on these natural threats, humans remain in extreme danger as a species.

    SOURCE: http://www.juancole.com

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  841. trippticket March 11, 2011 at 1:03 pm #

    Eleuthero, I just got an herbal detox tea with you in it!

  842. Patrizia March 11, 2011 at 1:08 pm #

    I agree with you, as I said.
    I am usually a heavy complainer…but in times like these I realize how lucky I am, at least as long as it lasts.
    Cogito ergo sum in my opinion is better Sum ergo cogito.
    Without a physical brain we wouldn’t have any spirit, which was the thing that made us what we are, from stupid gorillas to scientists like Einstein.

  843. trippticket March 11, 2011 at 1:11 pm #

    I kept thinking that f-word looked wrong. And I knew rail was probably the better word, but I just used rally. I guess like leading a rally of free-thinkers! Is it verb-like enough?
    And thanks for the vote of confidence about the farm!

  844. Vlad Krandz March 11, 2011 at 1:21 pm #

    You got to admit the whole thing is a bit a circle jerk – people have to belong to the Union, have to pay their dues, and those dues are paid to Democratic Candidates as leverage, a lien on the public pool; an Aristocracy of pull. It’s a conflic of interest. And what if you’re a Republican and don’t want your dues going to Democrats? Other contradictions: as public employees, do they really have the right to strike – even if they are performing essential duties? Coolidge and Reagan say No way Jose.
    There has been violence (turn on the TV) and there have been death threats. This is just more of your Communist Agitprop. How can the People trust you?

  845. Vlad Krandz March 11, 2011 at 1:33 pm #

    All those White and Jewish (they don’t consider themselves White) Billionaires are selling Whites down the river – even the hapless Prog admitted that “someday” regular Whites may get their rights back – if they are good! The whole system is predicated upon White Dispossesion both in terms of politics and economics. Remember it’s far more than just Affirmative Action – it’s giving our jobs away to other countries, the insourcing of foreign high tech workers, the continuous bashing of Whites in the media – in short, it’s a full court press 24/7. Only the feeblest White mentality or the most bought off can continue to believe your Marxist Garbage about White Privledge.

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  846. Qshtik March 11, 2011 at 1:41 pm #

    It’s a conflic of interest.
    ==========
    There are a number of different words that end with the letters “ct.” A surprising number of people apparently don’t see the t when reading nor hear the t when listening.
    I had a boss back in the day who would say something like “Hey guys, good news, we just won the widget contrac.
    I think my molars are worn flat from hearing this pronunciation.
    Vlad, I’m sure your conflic was just a typo but it stirred a memory.

  847. Vlad Krandz March 11, 2011 at 1:49 pm #

    Most of us will probably end up living with you so just leave the light on. It’s up to you whether you become a Medevial Lord or a hostel manager. If the former, let me be the a fisherman and supply officer. I’ll take a small cabin by the river and help with the harvest and planting as well. If the latter, I like my eggs easy over. Maybe in the evening we can have Asoka sing Old Man River. Q can tell stories of the vanished land of Jersey. Old can pass around the pills. Messi can preach the Word. And Marlin can make the Moonshine.
    Oh and can you post the Link to your wife’s store again?

  848. Vlad Krandz March 11, 2011 at 2:01 pm #

    Do you think the Law banning the old bulbs will really be upheld?
    How are the new bulbs for the human nervous system? The old florescents annoy the human nervous system by flickering at a high rate of speed which tires people out imperceptably. I worked under them for years and became aware of the effect. You can see the flickering when it slows down as the bulb wears out.

  849. Cash March 11, 2011 at 2:02 pm #

    Everyone just turned and stared at me as if I had said something outrageous. – Wage
    I’ve had that experience. Once I was with a group of accountants who supposedly were sports nuts. So we were talking about strength and stamina and I made mention (much to my regret) of slow twitch muscle fibres vs fast twitch muscle fibres, nothing you wouldn’t have heard in grade 9 health class. You’d think I’d suddenly started speaking in an obscure Martian dialect. They all looked at me with that dead eyed, expressionless stare only accountants or similarly affectively disordered people can manage. (Sorry Q, I know you’re a bean counter but you seem normal to me). It was chilling. Like being with people that you suddenly suspect aren’t really people like in a horror movie.

  850. Cash March 11, 2011 at 2:05 pm #

    Hilarious.

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  851. asoka March 11, 2011 at 2:13 pm #

    Vlad said: “Only the feeblest White mentality or the most bought off can continue to believe your Marxist Garbage about White Privledge.”
    ==========
    Qshtik, did you intentionally not correct Privledge?
    Were you thinking that Vlad is practicing his Ebonics?

  852. MarlinFive54 March 11, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    Vlad;
    On BBC last nite … Census is beginning to release data of the 2010 count. In California Mexican school age children, age 6-18, have now passed the 50% mark. White American kids are the minority.
    Yesterday in the Hartford Courant … Connecticut’s pop., 500,000 Hispanics, 300,000 African Americans, 100,000 Asians, about 2,700,000 whites. The original Yankees have pretty much dwindled down to nothing. This is pretty remarkable considering in 1965 Connecticut was 94% white.
    We had a pretty good thing going here and the whole world wanted in on it. We were the arsenal of the free world, with plenty of jobs, intact farms and healthy small towns. Now all of it is gone.
    When Ted Kennedy introduced the immigration act of 1965, opening up the United States to third world immigration, he assured everyone that the racial makeup of the country would not change, which at the time was 89% white and 10% black. Did anyone believe him at the time? In 2011, in polite company, is it even possible to discuss ‘the racial makeup of the country’?
    I thought you might find this interesting.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  853. k-dog March 11, 2011 at 2:21 pm #

    When CFL’s first came out I was delighted and embraced them as a progressive solution to energy independence and sustainability. I used to believe TPTB embraced such values and for those paying attention I just proved I’m an idiot.
    If I had their life security I know I would but then and I don’t and already believe in energy independence and sustainability.
    I suspect unrealistic seven year lifespan claims are made to convince anybody who cares that CFLs reduce mercury emissions as less coal is burned generating power. Every coal fired power plant puts out a hundred pounds of mercury per year or something like that.
    I’m not going to run the number despite my penchant for amateur applied mathematics. I’ve already shown myself to be an idiot, why do it twice in one post.
    As you point out there is no recycling for CFLs. They are all trash. News articles love to claim advances in manufacturing reduce the amount of mercury they contain all the time.
    Why?
    Heat from incandescent bulbs reduce winter heating bills. For all we know Energy savings by CFLs could be a wash.
    It would be nice to have a trustworthy scientific study that told the real truth about CFLs before a ban incandescent bulbs sans a mandatory public funded recycling program for CFLs to go along with the ban.
    I’m thinking CFLs exist to benefit people but not flesh and blood people; corporate people.
    And now back to Charlie Sheen. Last I heard he was on a roof waving a machete around. But that was a few days ago.

  854. wagelaborer March 11, 2011 at 2:23 pm #

    My sister’s husband is an engineer with IBM and I went to a “party” at their house once, where everyone was an engineer.
    I’m pretty sure we went the entire night without anyone laughing at a joke. (Or attempted joke).

  855. wagelaborer March 11, 2011 at 2:28 pm #

    I told you, I only watch Free Speech TV.
    And I saw a demonstrator this morning say she was going to pray for Scott Walker.
    Bleech!

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  856. wagelaborer March 11, 2011 at 2:33 pm #

    Mark Twain, claiming to use the scientific method, takes issue with Darwin-
    http://www.skeptically.org/logicalthreads/id14.html

  857. k-dog March 11, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

    Two engineering students were arriving back from lunch when one said, “Where did you get such a great bike?”
    The second engineer replied, “I was walking along the road yesterday minding my own business when a beautiful woman rode up on this bike. She threw the bike to the ground, took off all her clothes and said, “Take what you want.”
    The second engineer nodded, “Good choice; the clothes probably wouldn’t have fit.”

  858. k-dog March 11, 2011 at 2:38 pm #

    Yes the descent of man from the higher animals, it’s a hoot.

  859. wagelaborer March 11, 2011 at 2:40 pm #

    That was funny.
    I’m sending it to my sister.

  860. MarlinFive54 March 11, 2011 at 2:40 pm #

    And, oh yeah, Vlad, speaking of Whitey, is anybody out there funnier than Larry the Cable Guy?
    Hell, at least we can laugh at ourselves.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

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  861. asoka March 11, 2011 at 2:45 pm #

    Wage said: “And I saw a demonstrator this morning say she was going to pray for Scott Walker. Bleech!”
    ===============
    Wage, you are giving more ammunition to Vlad…
    ==============
    Vlad: “God is the smiter of foes. Violent leftists are praying about Scott Walker to have God smite him.”
    =============
    Noun
    smiter (plural smiters)
    1. One who smites or puts a bullet through the head of someone on a short list.

  862. montsegur March 11, 2011 at 2:53 pm #

    MarlinFive54 asked where Libya’s weapons originate from.
    ===============================
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Libya indicates they are of Russian (well, of the Soviet era) origin.
    Cheers

  863. k-dog March 11, 2011 at 2:56 pm #

    And the hand held surface to air missiles the opposition has come from?

  864. Qshtik March 11, 2011 at 3:00 pm #

    When CFL’s first came out I was delighted
    ================
    What’s all this chat about Canadian Football Leagues? I thought they only had one up there.

  865. wagelaborer March 11, 2011 at 3:04 pm #

    Well, that’s not what she said. I gave the abridged version.
    But I like your version better.

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  866. montsegur March 11, 2011 at 3:07 pm #

    k-dog asked: “And the hand held surface to air missiles the opposition has come from?”
    ======================================
    No idea. I’d guess they were captured from stocks in armories unless external powers are already supplying the rebels.
    Janes claims the Libyans had 350 SA-7’s in service in 2008, so I suppose some of those could have been captured by the rebels. How effective they might be is a different question.
    Cheers

  867. k-dog March 11, 2011 at 3:13 pm #

    Are you being a dim bulb Q?

  868. Vlad Krandz March 11, 2011 at 3:24 pm #

    It seems the weapons you sold Quadaffi are turning the tide in the war. Congrats! Do you think we should support the rebels so they can later turn their weapons against the US? It will mean more military action – probably good for business.

  869. wagelaborer March 11, 2011 at 3:33 pm #

    You know, I don’t think that JHK actually picks out the things held for approval.
    Notice that they never actually get approved. I don’t think anyone looks at them.
    But I just tried to post a link, and got shuttled to never-never land.
    So I’ll try again.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/americas-secret-plan-to-arm-libyas-rebels-2234227.html

  870. Vlad Krandz March 11, 2011 at 3:40 pm #

    Yeah we’re like clowns laughing thru the tears; like Tammy Faye with her make up running down her face. A bit of this is fine – it’s part of our uniqueness. But I think we need to resurect our dignity. I too am impressed with how the Arabs have comported themselves during the revolts. We need a bit of that kind of “naive” nobility. And unlike the Egyptian Army, I have no doubt that our military will fire on us.
    Did you hear about one of the last parties Ted had? He was in fine spirits, singing as usual. After the song and some lubrication, he admitted that he was glad he had lived when he did and how it was all going to fall apart soon. And what single individual played a bigger part in the fall than Ted? And of course he hedged his bet for the after life with his letter to the Pope. He admitted a few mistakes – like Mary Jo and supporting abortion I suppose. Did he even realize what he had done by opening up our borders to the Third World? Again the double consciousness: proud of it in one part of his brain and aware that it finished us in another.

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  871. Vlad Krandz March 11, 2011 at 3:45 pm #

    Yeah Asoka Asshole, I didn’t say that, so what’s with the quotation marks? And Leftists don’t pray since they don’t believe in a personal god or any god at all. Instead of prayer, Leftist slander people in the press or send death threats. Governor Walker has been threatened.

  872. k-dog March 11, 2011 at 3:45 pm #

    Found one picture online of an opposition soldier carrying what looks like an HN-5 pretty clearly but I guess that’s about the same thing as a SA-7.
    I did a quick search for SAM’s and what they look like, that’s all. Not something I’m in to. My an observation, proves nothing.
    Egyptians apparently reverse engineered the SA-7 to make it more effective in hilly desert conditions. They had a revolution recently. There might be a connection? Or not, just sayin.

  873. montsegur March 11, 2011 at 3:45 pm #

    Wagelaborer, I am skeptical of this statement in the article: “But the Saudis remain the only US Arab ally strategically placed and capable of furnishing weapons to the guerrillas of Libya.”
    =======================================
    Eh? Didn’t Egypt just go through an uprising of some kind? They border Libya, and even border the side from which they could easily supply the rebels.
    All in all, I’m not sure why the U.S. would want to get involved. If the U.S. does, the Arab world will likely suspect the involvement is taking place because of any oil reserves that Libya has. This is a time for the Muslim faith in their “brothers” to come into play.
    The rebels are certainly the “brothers of my brothers” for some Muslim groups, therefore, let those groups follow the guidance of the Koran and help their brothers. Gee whiz, with Libya bordered on both sides by Muslim nations that have recently had powerful popular uprisings, one would think the Arabs in Tunisia, Libya, and Egypt could remove Gaddafi by themselves.
    Cheers

  874. LewisLucanBooks March 11, 2011 at 3:50 pm #

    Yup. I finally became a Google drone. Sigh.

  875. montsegur March 11, 2011 at 3:50 pm #

    k-dog stated: “Egyptians apparently reverse engineered the SA-7 to make it more effective in hilly desert conditions. They had a revolution recently. There might be a connection? Or not, just sayin.”
    =========================
    I agree that the possibility exists. In fact, I believe the Arab world should deal with this situation by themselves. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan%E2%80%93Egyptian_War , Egypt had the better military of the the two countries, in 1977 at least.
    Cheers

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  876. wagelaborer March 11, 2011 at 3:56 pm #

    You may be right.
    It’s difficult to tell what’s going on.
    I try to guess by listening to corporate media as a clue to what the ruling class has in mind.
    But they lie on so many levels that I just can’t keep up.
    I’m actually inclined to believe that the US supports the continued Gaddafi regime, but that they may be supplying a low-level insurrection to keep things from getting too comfortable.
    I will change my mind if presented with credible information.

  877. montsegur March 11, 2011 at 4:02 pm #

    Wagelaborer stated:”I will change my mind if presented with credible information.”
    =================================
    I agree, I think there is much missing information at the moment.
    Cheers

  878. Vlad Krandz March 11, 2011 at 4:13 pm #

    Tsunamis move across the ocean at about 500 mph. But how fast does the water move once it hits land? It looks to move faster than a man could run, but slow enough to get away in a car.

  879. asoka March 11, 2011 at 4:27 pm #

    Vlad, I was trying to indicate conversation by using the quotation marks. You are correct that it could be interpreted as a quote by you. I apologize.
    Vlad said: “Leftists don’t pray since they don’t believe in a personal god or any god at all.”
    ============
    This will come as quite a surprise to many Reformed Jews, Quakers, and Catholic Liberation Theologists.
    Though I grant your point that many leftists who pray probably don’t believe in a personal god. I think the number of believers in a personal god are shrinking all the time: especially when god misbehaves and starts smiting people, as He did in Japan with the Earthquake and Tsunami.
    Makes me just want to say to God: stop your smiting already. Do something good instead of being so evil. But God has never answered my prayers, so I just keep quiet and watch Him slaughter humans.

  880. asoka March 11, 2011 at 4:41 pm #

    Anybody notice that the Wisconsin firefighters shut down a bank that supported Walker?
    They did it nonviolently by moving their money out of the bank. When the bank could not pay out so many requests, it shut down at 3 p.m.
    http://bit.ly/fupnC6
    It’s still not too late to join the Move Your Money campaign. Don’t support the six biggest banks (Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup, Wells Fargo, Goldman Sachs, and Morgan Stanley). They raked in $18.7 billion in profits in the first quarter 2010. That’s more than six times as much as they earned in the fourth quarter of 2009, and their biggest haul since the financial crisis of 2008.
    Support your local community bank or credit union.

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  881. trippticket March 11, 2011 at 4:46 pm #

    “Do something good instead of being so evil. But God has never answered my prayers, so I just keep quiet and watch Him slaughter humans.”
    If Earth is radically over-populated, could we not file this one with that song about god’s greatest gifts being unanswered prayers? Doesn’t still being alive make you, by default, one of the “chosen ones”? I assure you that’s how Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell see it! So much smiting, and he always misses the biggest a-holes…

  882. Qshtik March 11, 2011 at 4:49 pm #

    Qshtik, did you intentionally not correct Privledge?
    ===============
    No, just flat out missed it.
    There are all these words that end in edge like edge, hedge, ledge, sedge, sledge and wedge, and then there’s a few that end in ege like allege and privilege but I don’t know of any rule to help keep them straight.
    One wonders, when we sit on our asses all day watching football, eating Cheese Doodles and drinking Pepsi why are we said to have “vegged out?” Why not “vedged out?”

  883. asoka March 11, 2011 at 4:55 pm #

    “I assure you that’s how Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell see it! So much smiting, and he always misses the biggest a-holes…”
    ============
    I just assume that God’s ways are mysterious… I assume that, even though God created me, I am unable to understand the big picture. My only option is to have faith.
    Either that, or just embrace Tertullian’s famous:

    “…the more improbable an event, the less likely is anyone to believe, without compelling evidence, that it has occurred; therefore, the very improbability of an alleged event, such as Christ’s resurrection, is evidence in its favour.”

    Tertullian of Carthage, Early Church Father http://phoenicia.org/tertullian2.html#ixzz1GKWk7BbN
    It is absurd, I know. But Tertullian said it, not me.

  884. Qshtik March 11, 2011 at 5:12 pm #

    This just in from Asoka’s No-Spin Zone:
    the six biggest banks … raked in $18.7 billion … their biggest haul since ..

  885. lbendet March 11, 2011 at 5:56 pm #

    Wisconsin’s Shock Doctrine
    I was wondering why NK hadn’t addressed the WI destruction of collective bargaining. I’m happy to say she has a video spot on Rachel Maddow’s show that addresses what’s happening in 16 other states and how draconian some of these moves are.
    http://www.opednews.com/populum/linkframe.php?linkid=128361
    [“What this fight is really about is not unions vs. taxpayers, as we’ve been told. It’s a fight about who is going to pay for the crisis created by the wealthiest elite in this country,” Klein says. “Is it going to be regular working people? Or is it going to be the people who created this crisis? That’s the debate we need to have.”]

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  886. Qshtik March 11, 2011 at 6:00 pm #

    It seems the weapons you sold Quadaffi are turning the tide in the war. Congrats!
    =================
    Vlad, I know nothing about where Libya acquired their weapons but read the link provided by Montsegur at 2:53PM. Sounds like they’re mostly Russian with a smattering of German, French, Italian, etc.
    =================
    Do you think we should support the rebels so they can later turn their weapons against the US?
    =================
    I am not smart enough to know what we should do but my brother-in-law has strong opinions on the issue. He says “we should just stay out of it and let all those ‘Moozlims’ kill one another … it’s just a fucked up medieval religion and culture anyway.”

  887. Qshtik March 11, 2011 at 6:10 pm #

    Are you being a dim bulb Q?
    ==============
    Nice play on words dog.

  888. trippticket March 11, 2011 at 6:44 pm #

    Q, you forgot the comma after “words.” You always place a comma after the comment when addressing a person or institution.
    [Petty meter off;)]

  889. BeantownBill March 11, 2011 at 6:56 pm #

    BREAKING NEWS! BREAKING NEWS! NEWS ALERT!
    Charlie Sheen cupcakes are selling like hotcakes (recent news headline)
    Thought I’d interject the serious discussions here with information as to what’s really important.
    Sorry, Q, but this info is about a bakery in Rutherford, NJ.
    REALITY OPTIONAL NATION

  890. asoka March 11, 2011 at 6:56 pm #

    I think Qshtik impedes posters from contributing to CFN.
    The pressure is intense to get the post just right.
    Punctuation, grammar, spelling, usage, etc. must be perfect before hitting the submit button.
    If you slip and make a typo, you are liable to public shaming by Qshtik.
    If you make a mistake due to ignorance of the rules, or mix a metaphor, Q. is likely to call you on it and the humiliation could be enough to push some posters over the edge.
    High blood pressure, depression, even suicide, could result … and I am not even going to mention what could happen for being called on an awkward sentence construction, incorrect capitalization, and a host of other supposed crimes.
    The resident grammarian is an impediment to dialog.

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  891. asoka March 11, 2011 at 6:58 pm #

    CORRECTION
    If you make a mistake due to ignorance of the rules, or mix a metaphor, Q. is likely to call you on it, and the humiliation could be enough to push some posters over the edge.

  892. trippticket March 11, 2011 at 7:51 pm #

    I actually take some pride in what I think is typically a high level of proper English usage. I would agree with Q that practical English has taken a beating in the last couple of decades, especially with the advent of text messaging, so it bothers me to make mistakes. My grandmother, the yankee journalist (from NJ, what is it with you people??), always called my southern ass on mistakes, and it made me a more observant person I think. Which has turned out to be a handy thing as I shift from a laissez-faire consumer class to a strictly-accounted-for producer.
    Q is tiresome at times, just like my grandmother, no doubt about that, but strict accounting will be the order of the day as we all transition to a new way of life. Mother Nature won’t be nearly as lenient in contraction as she was in growth. Never thought of Q as Mother Nature’s hand-maiden before, but hey, if the shoe fits…

  893. wagelaborer March 11, 2011 at 7:52 pm #

    I have my money in a local bank.
    Today I went in to cash my paycheck and was reminded that they have a giant TV set that looms over all the tellers, and is always set to Fox.
    I made a comment last time, and the teller looked at me blankly. She said that she didn’t pay attention to it. Seems like hazardous working conditions to me.
    I know the banker’s brother and he is a Republican, but the banker must be even worse.
    Perhaps I should move my money to the local credit union.

  894. Qshtik March 11, 2011 at 7:54 pm #

    Hilarious.
    ===========
    Cash, I can always count on you to “get it” when no one else seems to.

  895. wagelaborer March 11, 2011 at 7:54 pm #

    I have taken to listening to podcasts or watching videos while doing other stuff.
    Didn’t Lucas invent that?
    Anyway, this is a good one.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27665.htm

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  896. asoka March 11, 2011 at 8:09 pm #

    Well, the “Day of Rage” (which could have been the “start of” regime change in Saudi Arabia predicted by JHK), did not happen.
    JHK said Saudi Arabia would not last until the end of March without “starting to blow up.” But, if today’s non-existent demonstrations are prologue, JHK will have another failed prediction to add to Y2K.
    The start of the blow up was supposed to be after the Friday prayers (at noon), but as the mosques emptied there were no signs of rallies. Security forces were at checkpoints in key locations across several cities.
    Add 30 more years to the Long Emergency.
    Stability in Saudi Arabia does not seem to be in danger, nor are the oil supplies the USA imports.

  897. trippticket March 11, 2011 at 8:23 pm #

    My spring nursery order just shipped (I’ve been waiting for that notice all day) – it’s 81.5 lbs divided into 2 packages! Going to be a busy week…just the two new types of asparagus alone are a multi-hour project. But this is what I LIVE FOR!!
    I’ve been thinking, I like JHK, but his stand on suburban endurance is kinda myopic. For anyone here lucky enough to have a big suburban yard, I’ve put together a 17 minute total, 2-video course called “Debunking Kunstler’s Take on Suburbia 101”:
    First video is David Holmgren’s take on the endurance of Suburbia (7:07):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTYe8WloF1U&feature=related
    And the second part is a tour of the Dervaes family’s urban homestead in Pasadena, CA, on 1/10 of an acre! (10:00) I just read recently that they produced over 7000 lbs of organic produce last season!:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCPEBM5ol0Q&playnext=1&list=PL72757D5105859D4D
    And I want to throw this in for good measure: I live on 300 acres, but my main food production occurs on less than 1/2 an acre. The rest is just gravy (or nuts, beef, and mushrooms to be more precise). On that 1/2 acre, just in animals, we have chickens, turkeys, ducks, geese, rabbits, and a goat or two would be easy enough to add as well. A suburban acre is a TON of land if used correctly. Make the most of it.

  898. Vlad Krandz March 11, 2011 at 8:29 pm #

    You believe many absurd things – so why not just believe in things because they are absurd? Btw, this is not the position of the Church which respects the intellect per se. Tertulian ended up as a heretic.
    The Saudi “people” may have been frightened out of their day of rage. The goverment fired some “warning” shots into the crowd yesterday. Beyond that, the Colonel shows that Empires don’t always go quietly.

  899. trippticket March 11, 2011 at 8:29 pm #

    The email says my order should be here on 3/15, the ides of March. I suppose that’s enough reason to avoid the forum…

  900. k-dog March 11, 2011 at 9:25 pm #

    At the risk of amusing myself, a bright play indeed.

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  901. k-dog March 11, 2011 at 9:29 pm #

    “She said that she didn’t pay attention to it.”
    All the more dangerous. Sadly subliminal repetition is quite effective.

  902. k-dog March 11, 2011 at 9:31 pm #

    Three people apparently have confused the warning shots with the real thing.

  903. k-dog March 11, 2011 at 9:42 pm #

    Being as we are all his guests. Might you rethink the title: “Debunking Kunstler’s Take on Suburbia 101″. His intentions are noble, as are yours.

  904. k-dog March 11, 2011 at 9:55 pm #

    And this from the Wall Street Journal:
    “President Barack Obama on Friday countered Republican criticism that he hasn’t taken steps to respond to rising oil prices, saying he supports more domestic oil production and calling on oil companies to develop leases they already hold.
    Good to know the pres is on top of things, that should fix it.

  905. asoka March 11, 2011 at 9:55 pm #

    Qshtik said:

    This just in from Asoka’s No-Spin Zone: the six biggest banks … raked in $18.7 billion … their biggest haul since ..

    Q, since you bank at Bank of America, let me explain how Bank of America rakes in its haul from its customers:

    Bank of America
    The nation’s largest bank is revamping its three tiers of checking accounts to four, and trying out the new offerings in three states. The monthly fees range from $6 to $25. Your existing B of A account will turn into one of them in the second half of 2011. Here they are:
    *
    Essentials account. Unlike all other B of A accounts — including those offered now and those in the test run — you can’t avoid paying a fee for this one, reportedly $6 or $9 a month.
    *
    eBanking account. You can avoid a monthly fee with this account, launched last year, if you do your banking online and get statements via e-mail. But heaven forbid you have to talk to a real teller. That will result in a $8.95 fee that month.
    *
    Enhanced account. Escape the monthly fee with a $2,000 minimum balance, or a total of $5,000 in multiple accounts — you can have four — or by using a linked credit card one or more times a month.
    *
    Premium. To avoid a fee, you need $20,000 across linked accounts, which can include some investment accounts and your mortgage balance. You get up to eight accounts and free stuff, like paper checks.
    *
    Platinum Privileges. For a combined balance of $50,000 or more, this account offers everything but a pedicure.

    Of course, I expect you are Platinum and will expect a pedicure. But many others are getting gouged. I expect the exodus to the credit unions to increase in 2011.

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  906. k-dog March 11, 2011 at 10:01 pm #

    “Premium. To avoid a fee, you need $20,000 across linked accounts”
    FYICHASE is only requiring $15,000 across linked accounts for their Premium accounts.

  907. asoka March 11, 2011 at 10:12 pm #

    Obama is calling on oil companies to develop leases they already hold.
    =========
    If he was a real Marxist, he would just force them to develop what they already hold… or nationalize the whole shebang. Sometimes I wish Obama really was a Marxist. A real Marxist wouldn’t pussyfoot around while labor unions are being attacked.

  908. k-dog March 11, 2011 at 10:22 pm #

    The level of cluelessness is so astounding I’m driven to link the Wall Street Journal article.
    Obama Confronts Oil-Policy Critics
    I’m currently reading through the article comments. I have yet to find one that suggests a fundamental change to our living arrangements.
    Most are blaming Liberals, Conservatives or stoned hippies for the problem, as usual. Myopia abounds.

  909. k-dog March 11, 2011 at 10:29 pm #

    You say: Sometimes I wish Obama really was a Marxist. A real Marxist wouldn’t pussyfoot around while labor unions are being attacked.
    If he were a real anything he would do something.

  910. Qshtik March 11, 2011 at 11:08 pm #

    Of course, I expect you are Platinum and will expect a pedicure.
    =============
    Just wanted you to know that I’m aware of the loaded language (raked in, biggest haul) intended to negatively “spin” rather than merely report. Your sort of a liberal O’Reilly.
    As to my BofA account, it’s called the Pewter tier (for people who want to play down their fabulous wealth). You have to have a ton of money linked but there are zero fees and you get a hand-job each month from the teller of your choice.

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  911. asoka March 11, 2011 at 11:48 pm #

    Thanks, Qshtik.
    Must be a New Jersey Bank of America service. I have not heard of Pewter being offered anywhere else.

  912. LewisLucanBooks March 12, 2011 at 1:09 am #

    Here! Here! “Not having manners is worse than being poor.” Susanna Sugerbaker, “Designing Women.”
    (Back to my attach of “nostalgia for the present” while eating ice cream. Oh, yeah, I’ve got a hand-crank job packed away. Along with the grinder. Polish job that will do everything from grains to coffee beans. Also a hand-crank job.)

  913. Eleuthero March 12, 2011 at 2:53 am #

    It’s futile, Bustin, because Marlin has
    already written you off as an effete,
    dope-smoking, cork sniffer like the dick
    he is.
    His knowledge of REALPOLITIK is nonexistent
    because even the founders of the USA were
    atheists who hid their atheism behind the
    cloak of “Unitarianism” … the branch of
    Protestantism that allows a person to be
    a pretend-Christian and avoid the social
    censure that follows upon revelation that
    they’re “filthy atheists”. Thomas Paine
    was about as “religious” as Jean-Paul
    Sartre.
    As you know, I tend to reappear on this
    site and then disappear like a leprechaun
    for weeks at a time. The reason is that
    an argument with reasonable erudition and
    historical backing is “refuted” by people
    with a literalist swallowing of the quasi-
    fictions of “history” books. Real historians
    read the history BEHIND the history books
    and their discoveries are usually startling.
    Marlin also fails to note that most of the
    wars since time immemorial have been “my god
    versus your god” conflicts like the Crusades.
    I think you have about thirty IQ points on
    the dude so such “debates”, when viewed by
    some external observers like myself, take on
    a comic dimension.
    As I’ve observed repeatedly, the Internet
    “democratizes” points of view … which means
    that rationality is always butting its head
    against sophomoric, partially-informed points
    of view which are formed from poor education
    or, at any rate, superficial education.
    E.

  914. k-dog March 12, 2011 at 4:59 am #

    Wage you hit one out of the park with this one.
    Lifting the Veil: Obama and the Failure of Capitalist Democracy
    This is a must see, I’m going to make and distribute copies of this film. My suspicions have been confirmed, we’ve been punked.

  915. MarlinFive54 March 12, 2011 at 7:57 am #

    Eluethero says; “… most of the wars since time immemorial have been my God vs. Your God conflicts like the Crusades …”
    Absolutely not true. The most destructive war in human history, in terms of lives lost and property destroyed, was between two militant atheistic regimes, the Nazis and Bolskeviks, fanatical political screeds in which human life meant nothing. The only question was which brand of atheism would prevail, one base on race or the other based on social class. It seems the form that many CFNers favor is based on social class.
    In the American Civil War the combatants were the of same religion, Protestant Christians of one stripe or another. No religious or racial aspect seems to be apparent in WWI, either. The Germans were Lutheran and to a lesser extent Catholic. The French, Catholic with some Protestants, the British same as the Germans but, of course, not Lutheran.
    In all the reading I’ve done on the cause of the Great War I’ve never seen religion cited as being one of them. Same goes for the US war with Japan. I’ve never seen it presented as a Buddhist vs. Christian conflict.
    When the Libs and various other elites begin pointing to the Crusades it makes me laugh. Now, Islam was (and is) militant, at war with other World Religions. After conquering the Christian lands in the middle east, they moved right into Europe, conquering Spain and, in the early 8th century, moving as far North as Normandy in France, finally stopped by Charles Martel at Tours. Moslems laid siege to Europe until the mid 15th century, finally taking Constantinople but retreating before Vienna.
    Eluethero, it doesn’t appear that you have much tolerance for dissenting opinions. I thought tolerance was what you people were all about? I’ve been hearing about ‘tolerance’ ’till it makes me puke. Perhaps you would be happy if myself and a few others didn’t post here anymore, leaving CFN to the anarchists and atheists, like you.
    All you effetes and keyboard revolutionaries on CFN, thinking you’re smarter than everybody else, cloistered in campuses and in soft Govt. sinecures, hating your own country and your own religion, typing out shit between Sociology 101 and advanced Philosophy in the faculty lounge (Che’ Guevara poster hanging on the wall) … we will see how useful you are when the shit goes down and things need to be done. Probably as useful as tits on a bull.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

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  916. lbendet March 12, 2011 at 8:29 am #

    Corporate Communism with a mink glove__ looks like it may be coming off.
    Lifting the Veil is an excellent film, thanks for posting the link. Most of the people interviewed here are people I follow regularly.
    It goes to show, that having the clips of what politicians say to us at first is very powerful when we check the record of what they have actually accomplished and indeed, it is a sad ruse. It’s just the system, m’am.
    I love the concept of the Obama brand. Communication is the marketing of ideas–journalism is the key to understanding what is happening. That’s the big problem in our media. How do we differentiate between real journalism and the message that we are to buy into. This is totalitarianism with a mink glove.
    The educational system adopted the neoliberal agenda. At one time, Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand were considered to be fringe theories, now they are de rigueur, so it self-perpetuates as Obama has been educated in that way. It’s a system that reinforces itself through education and practice.
    A few things come to mind, though . Without discussing Neoliberalism as a political-economic context is a mistake. How globalism does not allow for the trickle-down theory to take place is an important point to be made. You can’t fight slave labor–the differential is too great. The use of the IMF and World Bank is an important way this system perpetuates itself around the world. Neoliberalism doesn’t work, so they need to draw money out of international economies to keep this nightmare going.
    If you read Naomi Klein, you will see how Pinochet tortured his opposition to turn the economy into a privatized operation. The war on terror is being used the same way here. Also really love Paul Craig Roberts, who I often quote on this blog.
    It’s not enough to describe the balkanization without discussing the theory. The politics of big money is part of the issue, but not the whole picture. Understanding the reverse-engineered ideas of Trotsky of global power to the workers, understanding Neoliberalism is necessary to recognise the structure behind the politics. Michael Hudson described this in his segment but failed to put a name on it. If you don’t say Neoliberal, people can’t follow the global destruction of wealth. He’s describing disaster capitalism without calling it as such. Love Hudson and he does attack the Chicago School of Business, where Friedman worked from in his online articles, though.
    Bernie Sanders was howling at the moon, once more. He describes the tenets of Neoliberalism, but again did not say it by name. He describes the symptoms without calling the system by name.
    What keeps it going is the reinforcement schedule more, playing out a zero sum game. At this point the CEOs don’t care about the companies they run.
    They take their golden parachutes and run.
    JHK pointed out to us that the country is fraying at the edges. Through the destruction of our economy, the towns are rotting and more people are suffering. It will get so much worse and there will be more privatization which will cost us so much more than normal taxation.
    Such a contorted-distorted system cannot continue ad infinitum, that’s where you know JHK is right about this thing going down.

  917. orionoir March 12, 2011 at 9:19 am #

    {they seem to have a board on which the day’s events are posted and then they throw a dart at it, and the talking head has to say it with a straight face.}
    ——-
    i too love the media’s schlumpfy efforts at reporting the markets… as with so many other things (sports, the arts, sex) uninformed commentary is a whole lot more fun than the dreary actuality.
    ——-
    what follows may be an amusing little anecdote from a life chock full of ’em, or it may be “a sadly aborted attempt at a joke” (comment once received on an english lit paper) — when i was an undergrad i shared a house with, among others, an adorable sociopath studying for an mba… he was in a course for which his entire grade depended on the outcome of an elaborate investing game, very high stakes indeed for a guy on the cusp of flunking out.
    i was seriously liquid at the time, having begged, borrowed and stolen precisely the sum i would need to pay grad school tuition due five months hence. you guessed it, i started playing in parallel; what can i say, master-of-the-universe is an infectious disease.
    this was when dinosaurs ruled the earth: no internet, no bloomberg neither, and if there had been, we wouldn’t have been able to afford none no how. however, barron’s there was, and so i learned to worship at its altar. thus began my lifelong thing for alan abelson, fellow alcoholic in arms, brother in bearishness, sister in sin, you know, he’s my kindv guy, although by now he must be fixing to die.
    what i love re barron’s brand of business journalism: when they don’t know wtf is going on, they say so. heck, they put it in the headline.
    as for my multiferous money-mongering machinations, well, i was a blind bull in a market that could go only go up: i ran thirty grand to ninety even as i was furtively filling up on day-old pastries at my convenience store job, reading porn behind the milk in the walk-in because i believed the camera above the register was real.
    i believe i’ve written here re my big brother, you’d be right in thinking i’ve got little brother syndrome up the wazoo. he was history’s youngest vp at an outfit that, were i to speak its name, men in suits would be instantly knocking at your door, intent on sequestering any and all media on which the firm is so fingered. we’re talking bad-ass capital, fiduciary to the prince of fucking darkness.
    so i used to call him up, tell him what i was playing; of course he was mum, mum was always the word; if he were ever to choose a co-conspirator, it sure as hell wouldn’t have been me. but i’d have a watch in hand, i’d time the dirty silence on the line…. so, i’m into apple for a thousand shares, and? [tick, tick, tick] but, still, nobody ever got shot for buying big blue [tick, etc.]
    ———
    so that’s where it all started. however, like the connecticut state lottery in reverse, you can’t play if you don’t win. somewhere down the road i might have bet the nest egg on an amazingly counterintuitive, umm —
    new topic: has anyone seen “lost in america”? julie haggerty was in it, i think. you’ve got to see it, if only for the part about the nest egg.
    some day my wife will laugh about the whole nest egg thing. unfortunately, i’ll be dead then.

  918. progressorconserve March 12, 2011 at 10:17 am #

    “It’s futile, Bustin, because Marlin has
    already written you off as an effete,
    dope-smoking, cork sniffer….”
    -E-
    There are other reasons to write Bustin off. I did it when I caught him making up his own elaborations of established scientific theory without a disclaimer, and then responding to me in anger because I dared ask for clarification.
    At that point Bustin became the second regular CFN poster to move onto my *fast scroll by* list. In other words, I’ll skim him looking for some new insight, but mostly what I’ll expect to see is:
    *god bad – man better with no god
    *religion do many bad thing
    *doubt bad – certainty GOOD – agnostics pussys
    *4 Billion people stupid – believe in God
    – and the summary –
    I’m really smart ’cause I’m Atheist – you stupid.
    You also say, E:
    “As I’ve observed repeatedly, the Internet
    “democratizes” points of view … which means
    that rationality is always butting its head
    against sophomoric, partially-informed points
    of view which are formed from poor education
    or, at any rate, superficial education.”
    – E –
    That saw cuts both ways, E.

  919. Qshtik March 12, 2011 at 10:37 am #

    Your sort of a liberal O’Reilly.
    =============
    You people blew it. You had me dead to rights …
    It’s you’re

  920. progressorconserve March 12, 2011 at 10:43 am #

    BeanTownBill expressed some wonderful sentiments about the power of the human intellect to wonder at the mysteries of the Universe. Wage and several others seconded him on these thoughts.
    Well, I thought some of what was expressed looked like Magnificent religious ideation. And then Bill mentions actual scientific research that begins to hint at the presence of a “god spot” in some human brains, but not in others.
    “Science” will never claim all the answers, for all the people – until evolution eliminates the “god spot”* or the human race disappears.
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=searching-for-god-in-the-brain
    Some of the comments are as interesting as the article.

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  921. MarlinFive54 March 12, 2011 at 10:45 am #

    Ripthunder;
    A place in Dallas, Texas, Bachman Pawn and Gun 214-351-0572 has a shitload of those Springfield Armory M1As for sale, pretty cheap. They are all .308 (Do they come any other way? .30-06?, Would it still be an M1A, or an M-14 in .30-06)
    Come to think of it a Destroyer I was onboard still had some M-14s in the armory in the late ’70’s. I remember gunners mates spraying bullets off the fantail into the caribbean with those M-14s, for the hell of it. And they were also toted along when shipboarding parties were assembles (looking for illegals and/or narcotics)
    Evidently the M1A/M14 is making somewhat of a comeback in Afghanistan, the .308 being far more effective than that puny .223. Really it never went away. It was regular issue 1954-1966; after that it was stockpiled, not sold off or destroyed like the Garand or Springfield 06.
    I have visited the museum at Springfield Armory in Mass. Really fascinating.
    Thought you would like to know about that, ripthunder.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  922. asoka March 12, 2011 at 11:07 am #

    Marlin said: “I’ve never seen it presented as a Buddhist vs. Christian conflict.”
    This could possible be because Buddhism was not the official religion at the time. During World War II the official religion in Japan was State Shinto and everyone had to admit that the Emperor was divine, a concept completely foreign to Buddhism.
    Buddha himself said he was an ordinary person. Buddhists themselves do not consider Buddha to be divine.
    The way I see it State Shinto is an imperial cult that violated the core beliefs of Buddhism.
    It is always best to go back to the Source: Buddha would never have endorsed the violence of State Shinto in Japan.
    Those who engage in violence are not true Buddhists.
    Jesus, the Prince of Peace, would never have endorsed burning “witches at the stake” or the tortures of the inquisition or the violence of the Crusades.
    Those who engage in violence are not true Christians.
    The very word, Islam, means peace, and the Holy Quran strictly prohibited conversion by force, saying: “There is no compulsion in religion” (Sura 2:256)
    Those who engage in violence are not true Muslims.
    As Rodney King said: “Why can’t we all just get along?”

  923. progressorconserve March 12, 2011 at 11:14 am #

    Speaking of divisive topics besides religion.
    Let me spell out two areas where it may be impossible to argue with Vlad using facts.
    1. In an energy descended world, humans are going to group themselves in “tribes.” These tribes are inevitably going to have an observable racial component.
    – and because of this energy/economic descent –
    2. Irreversible demographic trends in the United States have produced, or will soon produce, the need for a watchdog group for “white people.” This group will have to adopt the nonviolence of the NAACP and the polite assertive intelligence of the ADL.
    =============
    Now, I will not be back on CFN until Sunday. In the meantime I will expect Vlad to attack my ideas for not going far enough – and some of the rest of you to attack them for going to far.
    Truth, however, is always in the middle.
    Which is why most posters will not comment at all.

  924. Buck Stud March 12, 2011 at 11:30 am #

    Marlin writes:
    “we will see how useful you are when the shit goes down and things need to be done. Probably as useful as tits on a bull.”
    I read this expressed sentiment so much on this and similar blog sites, that it gets to be a bit cliche. “Shit” is always going down regardless; “they” are not going to sound the-shit-going-down alarm in anticipation of smelly brown things suddenly flying off the fan wheel. But if such a demarcated, preconcieved event were ever to occur, I can only immagine the man-boobs bouncing when the “bulls ” leap from the computer chair, running for their guns.
    Speaking of which, it’s not hard to envision a gut-toting, singular-minded survivalist–especially an eledery one– taking a spill on a patch of ice and breaking a hip. And it’s even harder to envison such a type performing the slow, languid–and deceptively difficult and physically demanding–movements of Tai Chi.
    But there’s no doubt that Tai Chi dramatically improves balance–among so many other benefits– and there’s even less doubt that patches of dangerous ice will cease to exist.
    Irony will continue to abound, and in greater proportion among those whose focus specifically narrows.

  925. Cash March 12, 2011 at 11:42 am #

    Are deposits in a US credit union insured? If so, is it the FDIC or a state institution that insures them?

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  926. montsegur March 12, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    Cash asked: “Are deposits in a US credit union insured? If so, is it the FDIC or a state institution that insures them?”
    ==============================
    Yes, they are insured. IIRC, it is a federal operation that insures them. I believe this is the agency that does it: http://www.ncua.gov/About.aspx
    Cheers

  927. trippticket March 12, 2011 at 11:57 am #

    “Might you rethink the title:”
    Nah, I like it. And he doesn’t really give a rat’s behind what people say here. In 2 years I’ve only seen him lash out at a couple of real jackasses for directly attacking him. By Wednesday I don’t think he even looks anymore.
    I mostly agree with Kunstler’s critique of the suburbs – they are filled with world-class largesse and the worst aspects of American culture, BUT, there is plenty of room there for organic incremental change to take place, and I believe that people will eventually adapt in the interest of self-preservation. I can’t tell you how many gardens have been started as a result of seeing how attractive and productive mine was, in the front yard of an urban setting. Take it to the suburbs and you just have that much more land to utilize.
    My point is that with education and inspiration suburban landowners are better positioned to respond to TLE than just about anybody else. Holmgren mentions in this clip that urban high-rise dwellers must come to some sort of consensus decision about moving forward with adaptive behavior…like upgrading insulation, or turning off the lights, and turning down the thermostat in the building’s common areas. Perhaps some sort of rent relief could be granted for certain low-energy behaviors, like biking and freeing up a parking spot to be converted to greenspace or cistern storage. But it all has to be community decision, and you know that’s tough.
    Rural landowners have plenty of productive space typically, but issues with access to markets in an energy descent scenario, where gas might be 8 or 10 bucks a gallon. Will that bushel of heirloom tomatoes that everyone is craving even cover the cost of the gas to get them to market?
    So suburbanites really have it made in a way – again, with proper education and inspiration – as is only natural, since a suburb is the cultural equivalent of an ecotone, in ecological terms. Which is where the most energy flow and the greatest species richness can be found in any given cluster of ecosystems. What is a suburb? It’s a place with access to urban markets, community, and variety, as well as access to the natural resources of the rural areas.
    From an ecologist’s point of view, the suburbs are where it’s at. So I think Kunstler’s disdain and out-of-hand dismissal of the ‘burbs is arbitrary and capricious. Bunk, if you will.
    But admittedly, JHK is a fine and gracious host, who surely doesn’t reap any sort of financial benefit from his selfless altruism. I know I haven’t purchased a copy of World Made By Hand or The Long Emergency;)

  928. trippticket March 12, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    One teensy-weensy little caveat, however:
    I believe that the more affluent a suburb is, the harder it will be for its residents to adapt. Woe to those of you in gated communities…I don’t envy your position one iota.

  929. montsegur March 12, 2011 at 12:12 pm #

    Trippticket wrote: “From an ecologist’s point of view, the suburbs are where it’s at. So I think Kunstler’s disdain and out-of-hand dismissal of the ‘burbs is arbitrary and capricious. Bunk, if you will.”
    =====================================
    If I recall JHK’s comments about suburbs in TLE, they were to the effect that suburban living was sort of a faux “return to the country life” minus the very physical lifestyle of farmers as well as minus certain aspects of country living like having to draw/pump water from a well and not being connected to a municipal sewer line.
    I agree that there is potential to reclaim some of the land in suburbs for agricultural purposes, but much of the suburb infrastructure will be a hindrance (pavement all over the place) or ready to go bonfires (houses and other structures).
    I think the biggest thing against the suburbs in an expensive-energy environment is that they are not organized like traditional towns or villages and depend on regular supply runs to obtain basic items. Granted, food supply issues can be mitigated to an extent by farming the lawns and potentially solutions to water supply and sewage removal issues could also be developed. But what all this implies is essentially a transformation of the suburbs into villages of a kind. This transformation may occur with time, but in the initial phases of a TLE scenario, my guess is that the suburbs would largely be abandoned.
    Cheers

  930. asoka March 12, 2011 at 12:20 pm #

    Tribes in the 21st century do not resemble traditional tribes. The difference is that, as the world becomes smaller, 21st century tribes are increasingly multicultural.
    There is nothing more meaningful or personally rewarding than to be a member of a multicultural tribe. That meaning is something difficult to convey to those who aren’t, and something immediately understood by those who are.
    Without sounding over-emotional, becoming a member of a multicultural tribe — through whatever route one takes — will be simply to experience a forging of your character, and gaining membership in a band of brothers, the likes of which you will not find elsewhere, that will never leave you.
    In my tribe we have the saying, “Once a member of a multicultural tribe, always a member of a multicultural tribe” and that is probably the greatest truth we will ever know.
    Members of my tribe will tell you that they are what they are, and have achieved what they have because of the simple fact that they became a member of a multicultural tribe. Sounds corny to some, but it’s absolutely true.
    Multicultural tribes have strong bonds and, over the years, well inter-twined relationships. Having a self-selected interracial tribe, if you’re one who does, will be the proudest achievement of your life to date, and you will be branded for the rest of your life. You will have the privilege — and the enormous satisfaction — of sharing with, some of the finest people you’ll ever know.
    Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. Members of an interracial multicultural tribe don’t have that problem. Honor, courage, and commitment are required, but the rewards are worth it. Your life will be changed for the better.

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  931. montsegur March 12, 2011 at 12:26 pm #

    Asoka said:
    “In my tribe we have the saying, “Once a member of a multicultural tribe, always a member of a multicultural tribe”
    “Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. Members of an interracial multicultural tribe don’t have that problem.”
    =================================
    Borrowing from the U.S. Marines today?
    Cheers

  932. trippticket March 12, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    My wife is running errands with our daughter, and I’m babysitting the sleeping tot, so I have a few minutes to relax and hang out.
    Crazy thing happened last night. I woke up and saw through the office window that there were turkey feathers all over the orchard, and thought, oh crap. There was frost, hopefully our last, so I bundled up and went on out to scope the situation. More feathers than I thought, but no turkey. Well, I thought, whatever it was must’ve drug him off, but then I noticed a fair sized mound in one of my new garden beds behind the peach row (if you’d read my last blog post you’d have a mental image to go with this verbal description). Went over to the mound, and it was the turkey! Buried like cat shit under a layer of dark moist sandy soil. Went and got Jess to come look – you’ll never believe this, honey…and she likewise had never seen anything like that. We know there is a bobcat in the area, and figure it was his handiwork.
    I pulled the young but heavy tom out of the soil and shook him off, and discovered that only his head and most of his neck had been chewed off. The rest of his body, the parts we humans prefer, were intact. So, since I already mentioned that there was a frost last night and he’d basically been in the refrigerator since the kill, I figured what the hell, let’s get the big kettle heated up and clean him up! Just came in from doing that before I typed that response to k-dog actually. Wrapped in butcher paper, then in plastic sheeting, and tied up with some cooking twine, and into the freezer for a few days. Frozen then cooked thoroughly, and I think we’ll be safe.
    I think I know what we’re taking to the slow food dinner on St Patrick’s Day…
    And I think I know what I’ll be spending the rest of the afternoon doing – getting the outer gates finished up. And pasturizing some wheat straw, since I alreay have a big kettle of hot water going, for the next round of oyster mushrooms. Funny how life creates a schedule for you sometimes. I wasn’t going to do mushrooms until next weekend probably. Be glad to have it marked off the list before my nursery order gets here though.
    Better go clean out my buckets and make a straw dunking basket out of poultry wire. See y’all;)

  933. wagelaborer March 12, 2011 at 12:30 pm #

    I have a book somewhere by a woman named Rosemary something, called “Edible Landscaping”.
    She lives in Silicon Valley, which used to be called the “Valley of Heart’s Delight”, or something.
    It was some of the most fertile land in the country and perfect for growing just about anything.
    When we used to go up to San Francisco from LA, the 2 laned highway was lined with fruit stands.
    Now, of course, the highway is 8 lanes and there are no fruit stands. SJ Mom can testify about it.
    Anyway, her point was that each little box had a little plot of land. And that land was primo.
    So each person should plant their tiny plot with edible plants, instead of non-edible, purely decorative plants.
    I think that she was onto something.

  934. JonathanSS March 12, 2011 at 12:31 pm #

    That’s a good and accurate summary of suburban, low energy weakness. Too add, JHK points out that cheap oil has encouraged sprawl, forced mandatory motoring and allowed zoning which separates the perceived negative affects of business operations from dwellings. This includes truck deliveries, air pollution, general noise and bad odors.
    In my suburban nightmare, zoning has done nothing to prevent:
    * The horrendous noise of the air blowers.
    * The droning of the ICE lawn mower (my neighbor thinks his lawn should look like a golf course).
    * Chain saws every weekend (no additional comments necessary).
    * Smoke from fireplaces. Actually, Northern CA has instituted “Spare the Air Alerts” which forbid burning wood in fireplaces (with exceptions, if that is the only heat source) on those days for which clean air standards will be exceeded. Of course, my father-in-law, the one who has collected a state pension for a longer period than he worked for the state, and has emphysema, complained about “that damn gov’t trying to tell us what to do.”

  935. wagelaborer March 12, 2011 at 12:36 pm #

    The problem with eating dead poultry is that unless the blood is drained out, it tastes pretty funky.
    One more thing about suburban gardening.
    My sister used to have a beautiful garden in her San Jose back yard, but lately it hasn’t been so good.
    She fertilizes with horse shit.
    So do I, and the more I put on, the less fertile the land seems.
    Then I read a thing about the herbicides that they put on the hay passing through the shit and killing garden plants.
    Like I said, even the Amish that I buy hay from spray for weeds.
    So that may be it.

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  936. JonathanSS March 12, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

    Wage,
    Is it “Edible Landscaping” by Rosalind Creasy?
    Regards,
    Jonathan

  937. wagelaborer March 12, 2011 at 12:42 pm #

    Yeah, I really think the film is great. And topical up until Jan. 2011.
    Unfortunately, when I was watching it, it cut off right in the middle of George Carlin’s “you have to be asleep to believe in the American Dream” riff, one of my favorites.
    And the last 10 minutes didn’t play.
    Doh!

  938. montsegur March 12, 2011 at 12:44 pm #

    JonathanSS, if the situation were to remain reasonably free of chaotic violence and there were still places to obtain food, one could imagine easy to maintain bicycles affording some mobility in areas like the South where the winters are not too severe. A bike can traverse deteriorated roads that cars can’t.
    As viable as that may sound, the people on bikes could become easy ambush targets if the level of chaotic violence is high.
    No easy answers, I fear. Adaptation will take place but will take time because we’re no longer organized for survival in resource-sparse environments.
    Cheers

  939. trippticket March 12, 2011 at 12:48 pm #

    Except that yard-share programs are popping up all over the place – I have land, you have the desire, let’s get together. You can grow an amazing amount of food on a small plot, and people are opening up to that idea.
    You’re right that the suburbs would have to reorganize into villages, but a lot of them are already situated like that to some degree. Take an abandoned house on each block or cluster of blocks, and turn it into a farmers market. Easy peesy. The definition of “needs” will have to change, but that has to happen everywhere, regardless of what hood you live in. To suggest that urbanites or rural landowners won’t have to adapt just as much would be silly.
    And take that pavement “problem” you mention. Stormwater is only a problem in a high energy wasteful setting. In an energy descent scenario you’re just changing your mind, more than anything, about the purpose of that infrastructure. It could just as easily be turned into water capture surface for irrigation purposes, and/or public market space, like a never-endng bazaar street after street. Especially if the cars aren’t using it anymore.
    JHK picks on the suburbs, but there’s no particular blight in that situation that can’t be overcome with education and inspiration. The same things everyone else will need too. There won’t be any cookie-cutter solutions, and the suburbs will respond to TLE differently than the urban and rural areas. Some suburbanites may cash it in, but where would they go? There’s no room to grow enough food in cities, although it will help immensely if they do what they can, and it’ll be the rare farmer that’ll break off a chunk of land and equipment for newcomers. But an acre in the burbs is a self-reliant homestead of the highest order in the making. Again, with some serious adaptation. Just like everyone else will need to engage in.
    I know it’s fun to berate the suburbs for being designed poorly, but they are at least as rich in raw material for adaptation as any other setting. If the residents get it in their heads that that’s what has to happen.

  940. Qshtik March 12, 2011 at 12:49 pm #

    Vlad, you asked what my brother thought about “Peak Everything.”
    I emailed him (he’s in Miramar, FL) and asked your question but, so as not to muddy the waters, I changed the subject to merely “Peak Oil.”
    My question read as follows:
    I’m sure you are aware of the theory of “Peak Oil.” Do you think it’s a valid and imminent danger or an over-blown concern for worry-warts?
    The subject of my brother’s reply was “This is my answer” but, true to form, the email contained not one word from his own keyboard but, rather, an attached Daffy Duck cartoon.
    Daffy is reading a newspaper … First panel: “According to a new survey 48 percent of Americans say “I couldn’t care less” while 36 percent say “I could care less,” which makes, of course, no sense.
    Next panel, Daffy continues to read: “A third of that 36 percent report knowing that it makes no sense…”
    Last panel: “… but couldn’t care less.”
    I hope this has been helpful, Vlad.

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  941. wagelaborer March 12, 2011 at 12:50 pm #

    That’s it! Thanks.
    And when I said earlier that Lucas invented listening to podcasts while you do something else, I meant Lewis Lucan.

  942. montsegur March 12, 2011 at 12:52 pm #

    Trippticket stated: “If the residents get it in their heads that that’s what has to happen.”
    =================================
    My opinion — that is where the problem will be and that is why I think the ‘burbs will be more vacated than resided in, at least as far as the original residents are concerned.
    There is nothing unfeasible about the changes you mention; it may just require residents with a different mindset than the current “owners” to make it happen.
    Cheers

  943. wagelaborer March 12, 2011 at 12:59 pm #

    Many people live where their neighbors can tell them what color to paint their houses, or that they’re not allowed to hang their clothes on a clothesline.
    People in my town are trying to get an OK to have hens.
    I can’t believe that anyone would be against that, but, guess what? There are.

  944. montsegur March 12, 2011 at 1:02 pm #

    Wagelaborer stated: “Many people live where their neighbors can tell them what color to paint their houses, or that they’re not allowed to hang their clothes on a clothesline.”
    =============================
    That kind of thing is big in Germany. Part of it is that German houses have small yards so houses are closer to each other. Another input is that the Germans still value what the community defines as “order”, although the hold exercised by that has declined in the last couple of decades.
    Cheers

  945. old6699 March 12, 2011 at 1:05 pm #

    It is a real shame that the left wing, progressives, working class unions, “environmentalists” have embraced a mostly anti-progress, anti-consumerist, anti-science/technology stance from say the beginnings of the 1960s. These became, further along the line, hippies, counterculture, etc. Remember the songs about “plastic people”, or so. But it is exactly science and technology applied to the production process that has hugely increased the standards of living of the normal working class (which is essentially the middle class, even though they like to think of themselves as not working class) and average students and housewives.
    The greatest allies of workers and poor are science an technology and progress. But somehow, somewhere along the line, some really contorted connection was made, some false short circuit associating science and technology to the capitalists – the rich and against the environment, has completely brainwashed, has established a deeply engrained neural circuit and reaction in most people’s brains, that progress, as in the betterment of science and technology as applied to the production process was BAD, was not “natural”, was evil, etc.
    The truth is, science and technology can eventually lead us into a much better lifestyle, and world, and possibilities and opportunities. Of course the right wing and capitalists have hijacked all the merits of technology and have made alot of money off of it, while the left has simply had to always deal with it, never really trying to be in charge of it. Look at JHK and all of his followers: these people think that technology can’t improve things, they think they know ahead of time, all the possible applications, they think they know ahead of time that nothing can improve because we have “peak oil” and “resource scarcities”: but do they really know how much an idea like the chevy volt can be improved on ? Do they know that you could substitute the oil engine with a natural gas engine, that the batteries can be snap on and off and be charged on wind farms, solar generators, ocean wave generators, etc. Do they know ahead of time of all the possible improvements ? Of course not, they just don’t want any improvements, they want there to be “resource scarcities”, “peak oil”, an “energy descent”. While the rich keep on their “energy ascent”. They are oblivious to how much they are protecting the right wing, the rich class, with all of this resource scarcity myth, they are totally unaware of what a giant hand they giving the rich, they are helping them wage full class warfare against the common slobs.
    But maybe, the connection made between thinking technology was bad by the left was indeed very convenient for the right wing and rich, this made sure that their best allies would always be the environmentalists, greens, anti-progress, anti-consumerist and resource scarcity gurus. Most green movements, peak oil movements, environmentalists are deeply right wing, deeply anti-worker, deeply pro-rich and deeply pro-capitalist while being completely unaware of it. They are hugely reactionary – conservative right wing movements that long for the time when only a few super rich landlords had everything and the average slobs lived in stone age conditions, the same conditions they keep on longing for constantly with the idea that energy is running out, we are “overpopulated”, all “resources are running out”.
    Of course, this applies especially to the USA, where the first environmentalist and green movements (along with hippies and counterculture) started and diffused throughout the world. The reason for this is that the USA has a very deep “individualistic”, “self sufficient” ideology, the lone ranger in his single family house with his garden growing his own food. But also because the USA is so deeply dependent on oil and cars and trucks, long distances, suburbs, non compact towns, etc. This greatly contrasts with much of the rest of the world where the towns are much more compact, the single point of failure of oil is much less present, there is more public transportation, etc. Just look at cities and towns are in Mexico, Europe, Brazil and JAPAN on maps.google.com and compare them to the USA. They are much more compact and much less car dependent, by at least 50 % and often even more. But this also shows why there is such an obsession over peak oil in these blog as most are americans.
    Believe me, the real solution is to get rid of all the right wing mythology, create basic free salaries, cheap rents and free health care worldwide, and I repeat worldwide, don’t look at your little suburban town because the problems and economies today are global meaning 100s of millions of people needing work and houses. Get them all working for progress, for large public private endeavors improving the situation of everyone, space colonization, skyscrapers, high speed trains, you name it, if you can think about it, it can be and must be done.

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  946. ront March 12, 2011 at 1:12 pm #

    “Marlin also fails to note that most of the
    wars since time immemorial have been “my god
    versus your god” conflicts like the Crusades.
    I think you have about thirty IQ points on
    the dude so such “debates”, when viewed by
    some external observers like myself, take on
    a comic dimension.”
    Someone I know, now passed on, would say, “So what does religion have to do with the lovers of God.” It is quite a different thing. It requires no level of education, eriudiation, rationality, IQ, wealth or poverty in order for one to seek truth or to love God. Opinions and beliefs are of no matter, only one’s own real experience which need not be provable to another soul, only lived with real integrity and sincerity.
    What ultimately counts: what you believe or what you are?
    What others think of you, or what the All Knowing knows about you and is waiting to reveal?

  947. Qshtik March 12, 2011 at 1:12 pm #

    In my tribe we have the saying, “Once a member of a multicultural tribe, always a member of a multicultural tribe”
    ==============
    As sayings go, your tribe’s definitely does not fall trippingly from the tongue like, say, “a stitch in time saves nine” or “beauty is in the eye of the beholder.”
    I’d work on that saying. How about “all for one and one for all?”

  948. montsegur March 12, 2011 at 1:13 pm #

    Some here may find it interesting to see how another country has organized its land.
    In Germany, I often find the land is sort of organized like this:
    TTFFVFFTT
    Where T = trees (woodland or forest), F = fields, and V = Village or town
    For a satellite view, try http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=worms,+germany&aq=&sll=49.250476,7.36119&sspn=0.132894,0.363579&g=Zweibrucken,+Zweibr%C3%BCcken,+Germany&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Worms,+Rhineland-Palatinate,+Germany&ll=49.549716,8.220863&spn=0.066043,0.181789&t=h&z=13
    Major differences from the normal U.S. city+suburbs setup. One big difference in the rural land is that are usually no permanent fences. The land is traversed by small paths / roads that public ways. Pedestrians and bicycles take advantage of these to shorten trips between villages.
    Cheers

  949. MarlinFive54 March 12, 2011 at 1:22 pm #

    You’re right, Buckstud. I’m certainly no survivalist. I was a soldier in my early 20’s; I know that now I ain’t what I was then.
    What I meant to say is what Solzhenytsen points out: In trying times people with faith in God fare better than those that lack faith. Also, BustinJ reminds me of some of the professors I had as an undergraduate, evoking Marxism or atheism just to be iconoclastic, piss people off, and bust peoples balls. Also, many of them talked about the ‘working class’, without ever having done a days work in
    their fu—-g lives. But they dressed in blue collar clothes. That’s about as close as they got.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  950. jackieblue2u March 12, 2011 at 1:23 pm #

    Wish it was ok to NOT have one or more CHEEWAWA’S.
    Little doggies that BARK constantly.
    We bought a house, now underwater, anyway, rent out cheap, that’s the other story.
    On one side 2 yapping chiwawas. on the other, one chiwawa and one big dog, next to them 7 chiwawas.
    all outside all day, while the people are at work.
    Some were left out all night.
    One of the neighbors is in law enforcement. And he is a big bully. His wife is worse. Calling cops on them doesn’t work.
    anyway that is so inconsiderate, and these people are not young, they are old enough to know what common decency is.

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  951. ront March 12, 2011 at 1:24 pm #

    I loved the David Holmgren video. I have lived in the suburbs for all of my 63 years. Thanks for sharing that.
    It seems fitting, that if we are all parts of a benevolent Creation, that we could each simply START–just start to do what we can where we are and thus contribute to solutions and remedies to very imposing problems we face and will face during this transitional stage. We probably will not know the next step or have arguing out the Big Plan, but, I am convinced the answers will “magically” appear.

  952. jackieblue2u March 12, 2011 at 1:32 pm #

    Lawns should be illegal. It should be illegal to NOT have a garden.
    It really bothers me where I live, an apt. where we have a lawn, where there should be a garden.
    It’s so rediculous. No fucking common sense.

  953. lbendet March 12, 2011 at 1:36 pm #

    For those who are interested live feed from labor demonstration is on Free Speech TV:
    http://www.freespeech.org/

  954. asoka March 12, 2011 at 1:37 pm #

    Montsegur said: “Borrowing from the U.S. Marines today?”
    ========
    Montsegur, the USA Marines are a perfect example of how people from different races, different cultures, different religions, etc. can come together and become a band of brothers.
    My kind of tribe, the multicultural tribe, is the model for the 21st century. Right now we are the few, the proud, the multicultural tribals.
    The USA Marines are a perfect example of how unity among many different races, cultures, religionns, etc. is achieved to reach the goal of human survival.
    And that is exactly the situation we face as a species face today. The multicultural solution has been proven effective by the USA Marines: Unite!
    Un pueblo unido jamás será vencido!

  955. montsegur March 12, 2011 at 1:38 pm #

    Or just replace ‘multi-cultural tribe’ with “Marine”:
    http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=once+a+marine+always+a+marine&aq=0&aqi=g4&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&fp=81396be85d9c5a24
    Asoka forgot to tell us that the motto of his multicultural tribe is Semper fidelis
    Cheers

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  956. montsegur March 12, 2011 at 1:41 pm #

    Nice bit of synchronicity in our posting on the same topic at roughly the same time.
    Asoka stated: “My kind of tribe, the multicultural tribe, is the model for the 21st century. Right now we are the few, the proud, the multicultural tribals”
    You might enjoy this if you haven’t seen it before:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/21926670/The-First-Earth-Battalion-Field-Manual
    Written by a real live U.S. Army officer.
    Cheers

  957. jackieblue2u March 12, 2011 at 1:50 pm #

    If we don’t hear from ya we’ll know it was the turkey !
    Hey why wait to ‘do’ mushrooms ! anytime is good for those i hear.
    i mean with a name like tripp ticket. couldn’t resist.
    personally i’ve never done those. i’m just tryin’ to be funny for fun.
    I wonder why the Bobcat didn’t eat him, maybe he buried him and was gonna come back when he got more hungrier.

  958. montsegur March 12, 2011 at 1:54 pm #

    Asoka stated: “The multicultural solution has been proven effective by the USA Marines: Unite!”
    ===============================
    All of the U.S. armed forces have been more or less successful in terms of treating every male service-member as equal members of the force.
    I have seen how the people of various groups get along on the bases and it is a wonder to behold.
    However, it bears mention that the reason this organization works is that there is a Big Brother present who forbids the emergence of excess tribalism. And, because everyone works for the same Big Brother, there is a shared sense of experience that helps bind the various groups together.
    But it is also informative to realize that many of these same people, when they leave the military’s “Big Brother” environment, tend to revert to the expectations of the group they live in once they’re on “Civvy Street”, whether those expectations are positive or negative, or even completely counter to the experience they may have had in the military.
    The lesson (for me at least): People will adapt their individual behavior to the expectations of the group they depend on for acceptance, employment, resources, etc.
    Cheers

  959. Martin Hayes March 12, 2011 at 1:58 pm #

    Busy doing oyster mushrooms right now. Hay pretty good but have to add a fair bit of calcium hydroxide to keep things up past 5 pH.

  960. jackieblue2u March 12, 2011 at 2:07 pm #

    Nice post. Most over my head, but what it made me think of was that if we would just stop WASTING SO MUCH, that’s the problem, what we WASTE.
    Maybe there is a shortage also. But The real problem is the Waste.
    It’s everywhere.

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  961. Cash March 12, 2011 at 2:09 pm #

    My parents got some stick in their old neighbourhood about 40 years ago for planting a garden. A family bought a vacant lot nearby and built a house. They started complaining to other neighbours that they moved to get away from a lower income neighbourhood where everyone had a shed and garden. A couple years later they had both in their own back yard. They must’ve noticed the nice tomatoes growing in my parent’s yard. Sometimes it takes a while for things to sink in. Some neighbourhoods are so uptight that you’re not allowed to leave your garage door open. I guess it’s deemed unsightly.
    I saw in Montsegur’s post about restrictions on what you can and can’t do in Germany on your property. On Wage’s post also. I understand you have to be considerate of your neighbours. On the other hand if you paid a lot of dough for a house and property you want to be have some freedom of action. Otherwise why have all the responsibilities of ownership if your rights are as restricted as those of a tenant?

  962. Bustin J March 12, 2011 at 2:13 pm #

    Marlinspoke “What I meant to say is what Solzhenytsen points out: In trying times people with faith in God fare better than those that lack faith.”
    This is some sentimental bullshit. When trying times come, there is no reason for the true believer to think God isn’t punishing them- correct? For example, I once knew a very devout man who, after being fired from his job, could not find employment for many years. He spent his savings, his children’s college funds, and was reduced, in his pride and vanity, to being a quivering ball of jelly. Of course, he was an insufferable prick, an evangelical, a home-schooling fanatic who creeped out potential employers. The menial jobs he did get he could not hack because he had no humility.
    This guy was gripped by the concept that God was punishing him. When someone tithes, ruins their knees praying, and self-flagellates during all the pertinent holidays, and then circumstance reduces him to snivelling worm, there is the inescapable possibility that “GOD DOES NOT APPROVE OF YOU. To a believer, this is a living hell. Instead of taking the “Exit ramp” to athiesm and saving his damn mind, he got on the “Expressway to Hell”, dragging his family into his ruinous state of mind.
    Therefore, in “trying times” expect an uptick in psychotic, paranoid behavior of believers. Nonbelievers will continue surviving in a world ruined by God-believers, as usual.
    “Also, BustinJ reminds me of some of the professors I had as an undergraduate, evoking Marxism or atheism just to be iconoclastic, piss people off, and bust peoples balls. ”
    It is an ad hominem argument to dismiss my arguments based on your personal feelings for me; that is a certain popular canard of your cohort. Disclosure: I am a complete asshole. It is where I find the authority to say “You stink”.
    (You can enfold my existence into your worldview by acknowledging that I am in fact God’s Instrument, your personal Trial and Tribulation.)

  963. asoka March 12, 2011 at 2:30 pm #

    Thank you, Montesegur.
    We are faced with extinction. That is bringing us together. It is already happening.
    Perhaps you have not seen this short video, Blessed Earth?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1fiubmOqH4
    It is the evidence that positive change is happening on a global scale, to an extent that none of us, individually, can even comprehend.

  964. Bustin J March 12, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

    A poc says: “There are other reasons to write Bustin off. I did it when I caught him making up his own elaborations of established scientific theory without a disclaimer, and then responding to me in anger because I dared ask for clarification.”
    I’m not sure what you are talking about here. Are you the moron talking about how Galileo’s marginal error in position at 6.7 million miles from Earth according to Euclidean geometry challenged Einstein’s Theory of Gravity?
    Or where I was busting your balls for being an apologist for idiot god-believers?
    SJMOM51 says, “Teaching logic early on is a great idea. I started playing the logic game “Mastermind” with my kids when they were very young. I also taught them how to play chess.”
    Yes, sadly, “Drill Baby Drill” isn’t just a resource extraction mantra by the right wing. It is a educational concept ascendent among the nation’s parents of the new gladiator babies.
    Amy Chua would be considered insane by any reasonable society with a vision of the future that includes the phrase “Quality of Life”. I am so impressed by some European country’s evenhanded, philosophical pursuit of such an abstract concept. Here in America, to keep our “Edge” (that is, position at the bottom of numerous quality of life lists) we pursue policy in a way that mirrors our religious zeal- Reality doesn’t count, New ideas are Heresy, and and Hard Work for its own sake is the puritanical path to Elysium.
    Nature will kick our ass.
    I live next to a wetland, which has been periodically flooding a little bit more here and there. At the edge of this depression lives a typical American busybody. My neighbor, ostensibly although I never see him.
    One day he’s got his dog, his hip waders on, and hefting what looks like a heavy metal lance. He informs me that a damn beaver is at fault for blocking the (Engineered) drainage a half mile at the other end of the swamp, and he’s going to go bust it up, since an inch of water has spread over the road and created a few duck ponds at the edge of his property.
    So off he goes, successful, I suppose as the next day the water level is significantly down, and the road clear.
    Later that week, walking home in the darkness, I hear rustling and splashing in the water off our shared property boundary. I shine my flashlight but find nothing. A similar event happens the next night, and I suspect something is up, but I don’t know what it is.
    After a few weeks, some snow, and the melt, I am walking by and suddenly see what was up. Damn beaver tracked his harasser, and, without the penalty of having to work a day job to feed a lazy dog, set about felling all the trees around the edge of his property.
    Nothing could have put a bigger smile on my face.
    Now, the road’s flooded again and the ducks are happy as shit, and there is a certain beaver at the other end of the swamp, doubly entrenched, no doubt, doing his work to build the soil and landscape.
    Now isn’t that a happy ending? 🙂

  965. Cash March 12, 2011 at 2:37 pm #

    It seems to me military culture is the very opposite of multiculturalism. It’s the army way or the highway (or the slammer). They take guys from diverse backgrounds and squash the diversity. E pluribus unum in other words.
    You say: People will adapt their individual behavior to the expectations of the group.
    I would say that is correct.

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  966. old6699 March 12, 2011 at 2:37 pm #

    From:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/posting.php?mode=edit&f=3&p=2204608
    This Unaware that he is a Right Wing Thug writes:
    [quote=”jonquil”]I don’t see the left or the green movement being oppositional to science and technology per se, just to the way it’s used by the corporate right for a very oppressive agenda. Conspicuous consumption has been a real force and a huge problem for some time; and even worse, the business practices of huge businesses have been using machines, equipment, and technology in the interests of profit at the expense of the workers, the consumers, the landscape, and the environment. Just take a look at drilling and fracking practices, mountaintop removal, wastewater dumping, pollution, and CO2 emissions. And the results are alarming, spelling catastrophe and chaos all along the way. There are better ways of living and organizing societies for the good of all, including the environment.[/quote]
    I answer:
    1) We need conspicuous consumption in order to increase the standards of living for everyone: consumption is good, desired, the more the better, deal with it, nature is not some metaphysical flower, it is there for us to use, abuse and do whatever we want, we are in charge, this is called MIND OVER MATTER. It is not some religion, there is nothing good about nature, nature has and will always be our enemy, and in case you don’t believe this just look at what recently happended in JAPAN, nature wanted to make a statement, telling us who is really in control, true, but we will eventually kick nature’s ass, we have MIND OVER MATTER.
    2) Machine,equipment and technology can be used collectively and in the interests of mankind, but since the left and progressives are afraid of using it, because their “love for nature” prohibits it, the right wing capitalists will use it anyways and make cash on it.
    3) Drilling, wastewater dumping, etc. is a necessity, is used to increase the standards of living of millions, will be used more and more, no problem. We will solve all these problems, bury them deep underground, 100 km underground, rockets to mars, we will split the sun, use all its energy, wake up, we are in control, we need a huge collective, public – private agenda, work for all, billions of people for progress, we need trillions of people, a huge population explosion, more and more, forever more, enough with all of this “poor nature” BS, nature will kill us all anyways, we must declare a huge global war against nature, win it, and go on to colonize the galaxy, galaxy sized brains, technological singularities. How I hate environmentalists, they long for the dark ages, and an imagined paradise of the past: the past was hell on earth, especially without technology and TV.
    4) We need to waste as much as possible, we need trillions of gigantic cadillacs crossing jupiter and the sun, ever more. Long live extreme consumerism, no guilt feeling for consumption, please.
    Not to worry jackieblue2u, it is all mostly over my head too…

  967. montsegur March 12, 2011 at 2:49 pm #

    Cash stated: “It seems to me military culture is the very opposite of multiculturalism. It’s the army way or the highway (or the slammer). They take guys from diverse backgrounds and squash the diversity. E pluribus unum in other words.”
    ==================================
    I agree with that — what the military does is define a new cultural identity for everyone to assume once they’ve (been strongly encouraged to) shed their old one.
    One thing I forgot to mention about the society on military bases is that everyone is pretty much taken care of — it is very socialist. Housing, clothing, food, schools, etc. — provided in somewhat equal measure to all. No real competition in terms of commercial operations, all retailers are either a government operation or contracted by the government to provide a service. By having everything provided to everyone on a reasonably equal basis (although rank allows for measured increases in things like the quality of housing), the military system removes a potent source of strife among the various groups. There are no homeless on the bases, but one doesn’t see old people on the bases either unless a retiree has come on base to shop at the retail outlets.
    Cheers

  968. old6699 March 12, 2011 at 2:51 pm #

    The link was:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=174513
    Study it all carefully, JHK will all test you on monday, to make sure you all learned this new lesson.
    By the way, Saudi Arabia didn’t blow up, aother prediction that didn’t make it, oh well…

  969. LewisLucanBooks March 12, 2011 at 3:29 pm #

    Didn’t I read (somewhere, sometime, maybe in another life?) that in Germany they plant fruit and nut trees along the highways that are part of the Commons? That anyone can harvest the bounty?

  970. LewisLucanBooks March 12, 2011 at 3:34 pm #

    Have big life changes coming up in the next year. A year from now, I don’t know where I’ll be or what I’ll be doing. Hopefully, THE LAST MOVE. People ask me what I’m going to do and my answer is “I haven’t a clue.”
    But, way will open. I do the footwork and opportunities will present themselves. From experience, I know that life careens off in crazy, unexpected directions.

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  971. asoka March 12, 2011 at 3:36 pm #

    old6699 said: “nature wanted to make a statement, telling us who is really in control, true, but we will eventually kick nature’s ass, we have MIND OVER MATTER.”
    =======
    LOL! Nature will compost our asses six feet under!
    Besides, you are setting up a false dualism: man against nature. We are part of nature… and nature will one day reclaim us.

  972. asoka March 12, 2011 at 3:42 pm #

    Lewis, you are intelligent and aware.
    Awareness will enable you to see opportunities and your intelligence will help you to land on your feet. I’m not clairvoyant or psychic, but from your posts I sense you are going to be OK.
    Your friend, Pollyanna Asoka

  973. asoka March 12, 2011 at 3:46 pm #

    montsegur said: “…all retailers are either a government operation or contracted by the government to provide a service…”
    ============
    I love the way government takes care of all their human needs … government is good.

  974. asoka March 12, 2011 at 3:47 pm #

    CORRECTION
    I love the way government takes care of all their human needs without charging them anything … socialist government is good.

  975. trippticket March 12, 2011 at 3:49 pm #

    Too long to read. Or too boring to make it through such a windy piece of prose.
    Industrial people are made of oil. They eat oil, they live in oil houses, they have an economy based on and constructed completely out of oil. When the oil starts to get more scarce, more expensive, the people come back to their senses, and realize how shitty bathing in oil every day really feels. A few people will cry “they’re making it all up!” and kick and scream about whatever bit of “scientific zeitgeist” or “evidence” is hot at the time, but in the end, nothing matters except for the fact that we are a biological population that must follow Nature’s energetics laws.
    Oil made us, not the other way around, and the whole point of peak oil is not that we can’t devise and utilize other energy sources, but that all other energy sources have a LOWER EROI. Far lower in most cases. In other words, expansion is over, and contraction is going do some very odd things to the human population, just like it does to any other biological population. Save yourself the throat losenges, and either build a model that makes the old model obsolete, or be quiet and play along. You get nothing from screaming except curt replies. Believe me, I’ve been there.

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  976. Martin Hayes March 12, 2011 at 4:02 pm #

    Vlad, if that is how you treat people who are sympathetic to your position, I would hate to be your enemy. Actually, I think you would treat your enemies better than you treat those who differ from you on mere technicalities or who, in your estimation, have been aware of the stakes and have been unable or unwilling to make the necessary sacrifices. I am frankly shocked at your rough treatment of progressorconserve. I think you should apologize to him.

  977. MarlinFive54 March 12, 2011 at 4:04 pm #

    BustinJ to Marlin, “You Stink”
    My, My BustinJ, such language. Is that the way you talk to the impressionable undergrads in your Advanced Marxist Theory class who don’t agree with you?
    And I’m not even that religious, just bustin’ yer balls, that’s all. As a matter of fact you seem more fanatical in your atheism than the true believer Mormons that stopped be here yesterday to convert me into the LDS, until I told them to beat it.
    Carry On, fellow CFNer!
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  978. lbendet March 12, 2011 at 4:15 pm #

    Only Godzilla can save us now…
    With the media spinning with the ongoing discussions of fission energy, things are getting very dicey with the atomic energy plant that is leaking radiation.
    What devastation, from what we know already and what might happen. The worst case scenario is if plutonium from the core escapes there will be cases of lung cancer and the half-life will last hundreds of years.
    Someone from the Heritage foundation earlier was trying to paint a rosy picture of how the radiation emissions were becoming less concentrated over time, but new talking heads are telling a potentially more worrisome story.
    Given the US is broaching building more nuclear plants-even JHK has been a proponent, we will now be way more skittish about the use of fission here. And with the shoddy behavior of no regulations we may be right to feel the way we do about it.
    In the meantime a giant whirlpool off the coast of Japan is spinning, looking as if someone pulled the plug on the planet potentially sucking the islands of Japan into it. Oh, Godzilla where are you when we need you?

  979. asoka March 12, 2011 at 4:29 pm #

    Lbendet said: “With the media spinning with the ongoing discussions of fission energy, things are getting very dicey with the atomic energy plant that is leaking radiation.”
    ==========
    We have to be careful here with our terms. A rose is a rose is a rose. But a uranium nuclear reactor is different from a thorium nuclear reactor.
    For one, thorium is readily available, in quantities much larger than uranium and can be mined with less environmental damage.
    Thorium comes out of the ground as a 100% pure, usable isotope, which does not require enrichment, whereas natural uranium contains only 0.7% fissionable U235.
    NUCLEAR WEAPONS: NOT WITH THORIUM
    Thorium also does not contribute to the problem of nuclear arms proliferation.
    Weapons-grade fissionable material (uranium233) is harder to retrieve safely and clandestinely from the thorium reactor than plutonium is from the uranium breeder reactor.
    NUCLEAR WASTE: NOT WITH THORIUM
    Thorium produces 10 to 10,000 times less long-lived radioactive waste than uranium or plutonium reactors.
    NUCLEAR ACCIDENTS: NOT WITH THORIUM
    Because thorium does not sustain chain reaction, fission stops by default if we stop priming it, and a runaway chain reaction accident is improbable.
    Besides, the priming process is extremely efficient: the nuclear process puts out 60 times the energy required to keep it primed. Because of this, the device is also called, (quite inappropriately) an “Energy Amplifier.”

  980. Qshtik March 12, 2011 at 4:41 pm #

    Nature will compost our asses six feet under!
    ==============
    Asoka, I know it is very difficult NOT to reply to Old/8M … he is so deliciously off-the-wall.
    I try to limit myself to writing silly derisive pieces, like imagining Old69 sitting on the floor at the (fictional) Greystone Institute For The Non-Criminally Insane, rocking to and fro. And with Hancock1863 standing nearby in institutional garb, obsessively bending another inmate’s ear about RW Authoritarians.
    I certainly don’t want to respond to him as if in an actual discussion or debate which only lends his ideas a credibility they don’t deserve.
    This doozy of a paragraph below posted by Old69 today kind of sums up in one tight demented package what we’ve heard so many times before:

    Drilling, wastewater dumping, etc. is a necessity, is used to increase the standards of living of millions, will be used more and more, no problem. We will solve all these problems, bury them deep underground, 100 km underground, rockets to mars, we will split the sun, use all its energy, wake up, we are in control, we need a huge collective, public – private agenda, work for all, billions of people for progress, we need trillions of people, a huge population explosion, more and more, forever more, enough with all of this “poor nature” BS, nature will kill us all anyways, we must declare a huge global war against nature, win it, and go on to colonize the galaxy, galaxy sized brains, technological singularities. How I hate environmentalists, they long for the dark ages, and an imagined paradise of the past: the past was hell on earth, especially without technology and TV.

    What’s to be done? I don’t know … smile wanly and scroll on?

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  981. asoka March 12, 2011 at 4:56 pm #

    Thanks, Qshtik.
    It almost seems like he has a “superlative disorder” that requires exaggeration.
    He is taking things out to extremes, but why? To make a point? Or as a paid resident impediment?

  982. Buck Stud March 12, 2011 at 5:06 pm #

    Have you ever been in the midst of cars and horns when suddenly the jarring noise of the city yields to the soft sounds of a breeze rustling the tree-tops? I have, and when I do, I think to myself: one sound is the eternal; the other, epochal.
    I imagine for an animal that type of in-tune to nature awareness is amplified beyond human comprehension. Which is why we sit in laboratories trying to figure out how to predict that which makes animals skittish days before the actual earthquake event occurs.(If the anecdotes are to be believed.)

  983. k-dog March 12, 2011 at 5:13 pm #

    If the site kept track of us and limited each to a 3500 word a week limit the verbal diarrhea might become healthy bowel movements. Something certain narcissists here might not like but we’ve got the tragedy of the commons going on here.
    Charlie Sheen’s Winning Recipes
    We don’t need paid impediments, we have them for free.

  984. lbendet March 12, 2011 at 5:26 pm #

    ok, Asoka
    But are they discussing using Thorium here, or are they going with something else?
    Just because there are advantages to using Thorium, doesn’t mean it’s in their sites.

  985. MarlinFive54 March 12, 2011 at 5:52 pm #

    It just came over on CNN a 2nd nuclear plant in trouble in Japan.
    Yikes!
    Another Chernobyl coming down?
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

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  986. asoka March 12, 2011 at 6:19 pm #

    Yes, this is an historic event. Never in history have we had multiple reactors in danger of meltdown simultaneously. Yikes, indeed!

  987. asoka March 12, 2011 at 6:21 pm #

    Lbendet, you are right. I don’t think they have thorium on their radar, maybe because thorium DOES NOT produce stuff to be used in weapons.

  988. Qshtik March 12, 2011 at 6:24 pm #

    It just came over on CNN
    ============
    Marlin, glad to see you’re still posting..and not on that bus. Hope the rest of the CT/NE contingent are OK too.

  989. MarlinFive54 March 12, 2011 at 6:31 pm #

    Asoka, are you an engineer? You seem to know what you’re talking about. Same with Ibendet.
    If one of these reactors do indeed melt down, as seems to be happening, what are the consequences for Japan, east Asia, the rest of the world?
    I served aboard a Nuclear submarine for about a year, USS Flying Fish. Had to get out. To confining for a clautrophobic like me.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  990. MarlinFive54 March 12, 2011 at 6:36 pm #

    Qshtik;
    That bus came from Fox Woods Casino. That’s one place I stay away from. A lot of lives, careers and marriages have been ruined there.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

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  991. San Jose Mom 51 March 12, 2011 at 7:18 pm #

    Wagelaborer,
    We moved to the Santa Clara Valley back when there were lots of apricot orchards. There was an orchard owned by DeAnza College and we were free to gleen the fruit. I’d pick buckets full of apricots and my mom would make delicious jam. We would also drive down to Watsonville to a “U-pick” farm and harvest boysenberries and raspberries for jam making.
    The landscape architect that designed our yard told me that I have “inefficient soil”….whatever that means. But if I want the leaves on the trees to stay green thru the hot summer, it means that I have to sprinkle Sul-Po-Mag around the drip line of my trees (0-0-20).
    I have three Chinese Pistachio trees, two Crepe Myrtles, three Podocarpus, three white birch and a Jacaranda.
    Jen

  992. Vlad Krandz March 12, 2011 at 7:19 pm #

    Have you followed the Amren case? Prog and I have been talking and not talking about it for weeks. He has repeatedly sided with the powerful Blacks and craven City Council who have denied White Men their rights. There is just no excuse for this – not for someone who was raised where he was. Now he is backing away from his position in a general way – saying that “someday” Whites may have to fight for their rights. What about today? It’s already happening. It’s been happening for generations now. What is he talking about? He is a typical liberal failure. They will awaken if at all when it is too late to do anything about it.
    He has quibbled everytime we talked: How where the Amren posters informed about the decison? Did I know that the City Council was mostly White? What k dog post was I refering to? Did I remember responding to k dog? Am I crazy? Anything and everything except the issue at hand of whether Whites have rights or merely privileges – which can be taken away. And will be if trends continue. He has also several times made an outrageous allegation that Amren is a violent organization and that’s why it was banned.
    It is obviously very hard for him to admit Liberalism is corrupt. And it’s even harder for him to step away from his “tribe” and say something unpopular. Most people have no independent moral capacity at all. They feel bad about what they’re supposed to feel bad about. Prog is of this kind. He always looking out of the corner of his eye to see what other people are doing so he can do it too. Needless to say, this is not in keeping with his grandiose self image as a “Loyal Son of the South”!
    Yeah what you said is often the way of it. We hate those who are on the same page with us. Obviously I can’t hate Buck as much because Buck is so utterly alien. He wouldn’t never even deign to talk about the Amren Conference. He would probably say the Whites don’t exist. And if they do, they shouldn’t and therefore shouldn’t have any rights either. But Prog goes half way and then sits down and starts peeling a bannana with his toes. If he would just give up the bullshit about being a loyal son of the South and just be content to be what he is: a run of the mill White Liberal Fool – it would be better. As it is, his whole being is a Red Flag to me and I needs must charge. Btw, his combination grandiosity, feminine ass kissing, and bland “truth is always in the middle” annoy other people besides me.

  993. Vlad Krandz March 12, 2011 at 7:28 pm #

    He sounds great. You two should be running the Hospital with you as the Doctor and him as the General Manager. He is like one the Martians who surveyed the Earth with intelligences, vast and cold to whom we were nothing but bugs under a microscope. If you are Sherlock Holmes, he is your fat older brother, Micron.

  994. Nathan March 12, 2011 at 7:30 pm #

    Old6699,
    Are we now left hoping for the next miracle to come along and launch us into another round of exponential growth to save us from the leftover excesses of the last miracle?
    The snow pack in the Himalaya keeps receding every year, but the number of humans relying on it for water in the summer keeps growing (2 billion).
    Even right here in the USA just north of Trippticket in Atlanta my relatives living there said they were down to a 38 day supply of water 2 years ago.
    2/3 of Americans are over weight and untold numbers are suffering from depression. I am not sure an expanding economy is the answer to any of these issues.

  995. Nathan March 12, 2011 at 7:36 pm #

    Compromise is in the middle but that does not make it true.
    White people are getting the shaft in the good old USA right now (and any other color people for that matter who do not make over $250K a year)

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  996. MarlinFive54 March 12, 2011 at 7:46 pm #

    Vlad I’d say PoC is more on your side than against you. I’m curious, are you saying that any deviation whatsoever from your hard racialist philosophy excludes them categorically as an ally?
    I’d say that’s pretty short sighted because you will need all the friends you can get.
    This site is a tough place for anyone not steeped in the Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky school of history. I’ve found that out. I think PoC is as good as you’re gonna get here? Aside from Martin Hayes, who has already busted my balls here a time or two already. But he has a good point.
    Are you in Idaho?
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  997. Nathan March 12, 2011 at 7:55 pm #

    I believe Vlad is a contrarian not an Idahoan, so by definition he can’t have anyone on his side.
    Vlad does present interesting points though and his style is conducive to blogging.

  998. MarlinFive54 March 12, 2011 at 8:03 pm #

    Yeah Nathan we are getting the shaft, I agree, the question is, who is giving us the shaft? Unions? Wall Street? Big Government? Big Business? Big Media? Republicans? Democrats? our neighbors? Clue me in because I would like to know.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  999. Nathan March 12, 2011 at 8:13 pm #

    Well fellow New Englander the way I see it its the combination of multinational corporations using the government (by purchasing congressmen) and the media to make us think we are still living in a republic. That the right and left are not arms of the same body. Right now the left in congress proposes to cut deficit spending by $5 billion and the right proposes a cut of $62 billion and we are supposed to think these two are oceans apart. Reality is the deficit for this year is about 1.5 trillion or 1,500 billion. 5 billion and 62 billion are the same number in relationship to 1,500 billion.
    Tea partiers are talking about balancing the budget but fail to mention it would require cutting the entire defense and entire social security budgets to do it.

  1000. Qshtik March 12, 2011 at 8:13 pm #

    who has already busted my balls here a time or two already.
    ============
    Oh no! The dreaded double already.

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  1001. Qshtik March 12, 2011 at 8:19 pm #

    who is giving us the shaft?
    ===============
    “All of the above” works, but if forced to choose just one I’d say Big Government.

  1002. MarlinFive54 March 12, 2011 at 8:24 pm #

    So in other words, Nathan, we’re fu—d. And not just from ‘peak oil. That’s what you’re telling me.
    -Marlin
    CFNation

  1003. Vlad Krandz March 12, 2011 at 8:34 pm #

    Have you heard about Vitamin B17? The item we are the most deficient in and that from which the miracle drug Laetrile is made. And apricots are the richest food in the world for it – the pits that is. The lowly pits. If only we still had the jaws of Australopithecus – but a hammer should do.

  1004. Qshtik March 12, 2011 at 8:47 pm #

    the Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky school of history.
    ================
    When my daughter was majoring in “Women’s Studies”* at pinko commie Rutgers she was forever giving me Chomsky books to read. I could never bear to read more than a couple of chapters.
    Then she gave me Zinn’s “A People’s History of the United States” which had not one kind word in it about anyone in US history and I gave it up after 5 or 10 pages.
    * When the time came for my daughter to choose a major and she announced, after great indecision, that it would be “Women’s Studies,” I groaned and told her that degree plus two bucks would get her a ride on the subway. As it turns out she has a decent job working for Ralph Lauren in NYC.

  1005. Vlad Krandz March 12, 2011 at 8:52 pm #

    Yes Idaho. You may well be right but consider: Prog changed his view point from denying Whites their civil rights to his current position that I may have a point and that someday Whites can begin fight. It’s his style, his changing his position, and his quibbling that have infuriated me more than anything I think. And yes, that he was raised in the Rural South and that he is proud of it. Why be proud and then trash the views of the men who made the old South? Seems to me he’s just using his ancestors to score “points” and not honoring them at all.
    In any case, his tactic has suceeded: you and others have forgotten (if you ever knew) about his previous position and now are wondering why I’m so mean! Forgotten that he denied Whites the right to meet in a lousy hotel. Even Communists during McCarthyism had this right btw. Well I think Prog knows a thing or two about Human Psychology. I wouldn’t want to go up against him in real life on a committee or board. I’d lose because he’s a “people person” and let’s face it, people care more about the glad handing and baby kissing than they do about Reality. That’s why our Species is flawed and our Nation is doomed. Our Species might be too. There is evidence that we are capapble of better though. I mean we would have never gotten this far if we weren’t. Ron Paul is good man – but nothing spectacular. America was once full of Ron Paul’s. He only stands out now because of how low we have fallen.

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  1006. Nathan March 12, 2011 at 8:57 pm #

    Ever try competing with Walmart or Home Depot?
    Exxon made $35 Billion profit in 2009 and paid NO Federal tax. Look behind the curtain QSHTIK. The government is the enforcement arm of the multinationals not the top of the pyramid.

  1007. Qshtik March 12, 2011 at 8:58 pm #

    Have you heard about Vitamin B17? The item we are the most deficient in and that from which the miracle drug Laetrile is made.
    ===============
    See this excerpt from Wiki..
    Since the early 1950s, a modified form of amygdalin has been promoted under the names laetrile and “Vitamin B17” as a cancer cure, but it is not a vitamin[3], and studies have found it to be ineffective and potentially toxic[4][5][6] as a possible cause of cyanide poisoning.[7] The promotion of laetrile to treat cancer has been described in the scientific literature as a canonical example of quackery,[8][9][10] with Irving Lerner of the University of Minnesota describing it as “the slickest, most sophisticated, and certainly the most remunerative cancer quack promotion in medical history.”[3]

  1008. MarlinFive54 March 12, 2011 at 9:00 pm #

    Titles by Zinn & Chomsky:
    ‘History from the Bottom Up’
    ‘America, the new Third Reich’
    ‘Washington & Hitler, a Study in Similarities’
    Henry Ford and the Roots of Nazism
    The Saga of B Traven
    Republicans, American Business and the SS
    American Aggression in the Cold War, 1945-1990
    You get the gist.
    I gotta go buy some of these before Borders shuts down completely.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  1009. Nathan March 12, 2011 at 9:02 pm #

    The current system is deteriorating, and it should as it is unbalanced (or unfair in human terms).
    That leaves tremendous opportunity if you can switch to the next paradigm before everyone else does. Trippticket is going after local agriculture, any interest on your part?

  1010. MarlinFive54 March 12, 2011 at 9:20 pm #

    Vlad says, “why be proud and trash the men who made the old South”.
    Vlad, speaking of men who made the ‘Old South’ this weekend I reread Jack Hurst’s biography of Nathaniel Bedford Forrest, a true son of the South.
    I’m surprised Hurst found an American publisher for this book (AA Knopf, 1993) There are a few statues of him in and near Memphis, erected by Confederate Memorial Associations, but orgs.like the Southern Poverty Law Center, an anti-white outfit if there ever was one, agitate periodically to have them removed. So far they haven’t been successful.
    One interesting fact, Forrest’s great grandson, of the same name, was a Brig. General in the AAF and was killed in a bombing raid over Germany in 1943, a war hero like his great grandfather.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

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  1011. Qshtik March 12, 2011 at 9:28 pm #

    Look behind the curtain QSHTIK. The government is the enforcement arm of the multinationals not the top of the pyramid.
    =============
    This is a quiz. No cheating. Who is the CEO of Walmart? Chances are you don’t know. I had to google it.
    Well, in the US that I envision the government would be shrunken to the size of one of our large companies and the average guy on the street wouldn’t know who the President was if asked the question on Cash Cab.
    I’ve expressed my views on BIG GOVERNMENT at this blog many times and will not bore the readership further this evening.

  1012. Vlad Krandz March 12, 2011 at 9:32 pm #

    Race enters into everything. Did not “Barney” and Co mandate that Banks had to lend to minorities – whether they were qualified or not. And inevitably, many minorities were unable to make their payments and generated a very high rate of foreclosures – much higher than that of Whites.
    Or now that they’re closing down schools and firing Police and Firemen in Detroit, what do you think they’re going to do? Why we have to start thinking regionally, in terms of counties! Beware Massachusetts, it’s coming.
    Sure Nate, it’s all just coincidence that poverty and crime follow Blacks and Mestizos wherever they go. If it’s anybody’s fault, it’s Whites never them. Never them. Never them. Never…

  1013. MarlinFive54 March 12, 2011 at 9:32 pm #

    Yeah, Nathan I have my own spread here, 2 acres rural-suburban, used to be the estate of the President of the local college. At one time, for 250 years it was part of a 600 acre farm. The previous owners grew old here and kind of let it go. When i got here I cleared it with an axe (I try to do everything with hand tools) This year I’ll have 6 plots cultivated on about an acre. It’s been alot of fun.
    Last year we ate out of those gardens from June to November. This year we hope to get into canning and I’m gathering up the stuff now. Today was the first day I was able to get out and work around the property as the snow is finally melting off.
    Where are you, in Mass?
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post !
    New England Chapter

  1014. Vlad Krandz March 12, 2011 at 9:39 pm #

    Lies and the Lying Liars who tell them. G Edward Griffin who wrote “The Creature from Jekyll Island” also wrote “World Without Cancer: The Story of Vitamin B17”.
    He says there have been countless cures in the Laetrile Clinics in Mexico. The slick, massively funded campaign has been by Big Pharma. You see Q, there’s no money in Apricot Pits….
    Anyway, let’s both try to keep an open mind. I haven’t tried it – and I don’t know any of the miraculously cured. My life was saved by Western Medicine – I admire it.

  1015. Vlad Krandz March 12, 2011 at 9:48 pm #

    Sounds great. Did you say that a while back that you were less educated than other posters? You’re always talking about books – seems to me like you’re more educated. Of course you read different books than most of the people here. I’m slowly reading “The Tragic Era” by Claude Bowers. It’s about the chaos and violence in the South after the death of Lincoln.
    Do you think General Patton was assasinated?

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  1016. Vlad Krandz March 12, 2011 at 9:51 pm #

    Check this out: a Black guy is cast as “Thor”. Where is Thorium to be found? Is there a Thorium gap?
    http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2011/03/black_thor_acto.php

  1017. Nathan March 12, 2011 at 10:03 pm #

    Sam Walton was a good man but his children (who own the company, not stock holders) are monsters not humans. They give NO $$$ to charities because they believe poverty is a choice. They lobbied the Bush administration to repeal the death tax before old lady Walton died and they would have had to sell stock to pay the tax on her shares, poor rich bastards.You got me on the CEO I don’t know without looking it up but I can guarantee you I will leave this world without making a single purchase from the demons that own Walmart.

  1018. trippticket March 12, 2011 at 10:04 pm #

    “See this excerpt from Wiki..”
    About B17, or laetrile. Having seen the “official stance” on Wiki, Vlad, I’d say you’re onto something. Though if it’s not part of a hunter/gatherer diet, I’d say to skip it…

  1019. MarlinFive54 March 12, 2011 at 10:06 pm #

    Vlad;
    Nah, I think it was just a traffic accident. Gi’s drive crazy … that’s how it was when I was in there and how it probably was in the 40s. Don’t forget, some of the German high command was killed in road accidents before and during the war, too.
    Incidentally, my Dad, as a member of a military police battalion, was on Patton’s security detail a few times in 1944-45. He said he was a decent guy despite his hardass rep.
    The period right after April, 1865 in the South, that’s a real interesting time and I’m happy to hear someone has looked into it. There’s a real similarity with Germany 1945-47, defeat, uncertainty and violence etc.
    Dixie, the Boers, Germany, three strikes we’re out.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  1020. Nathan March 12, 2011 at 10:13 pm #

    Can’t throw me in with the bleeding hearts. I don’t really see colors and race much, but I do see those who try little and do well. And those who try hard but struggle anyway, those are the ones I care to help. All of the charities we give to are for young people (race, ethnicity,and gender do not matter).
    I actually haven’t studied the affirmative action theory much so I do not know how it worked or did not work. I grew up in Georgia and was in 8th grade when schools were integrated there (3 students were killed in my school during that year in race riots).
    Blacks had their own culture and to some extent their own language too. I played hoops so I was treated with respect (kind of strange huh?)I can tell you that even compared to the most brilliant black kids I had A HUGE advantage in economic opportunity because I was already in the rich culture and they were new to it. Could be blacks would have progressed without the affirmative thing but no telling, no control group.

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  1021. asoka March 12, 2011 at 10:19 pm #

    Vlad, why do you assume that the Norse gods are white, anyway? Gods have always been pictured as somewhat different from the people who worship them. (After all, not many ancient Egyptians had the head of a jackal.)
    Besides, the Norse “gods” in the Thor comics are really supposed to be beings from another dimension; so why should we assume that they resemble the Norse people?
    Or is the real reason because you don’t like the idea of someone Black doing awesome things as a deity?
    Remember that the Biblical depiction of Jesus is as a Black man with nappy hair from the Tribe of Judah, an Ethiopian who spoke Aramaic.
    According to Hebrews 7:14, the Tribe of Judah from whence Jesus or Yahshua, – (His Hebrew name) – came, is a dark skinned nation of people.
    Jeremiah 14:2 also states that, “Judah mourneth, and the gates thereof languish; they are black unto the ground; and the cry of Jerusalem is gone up.” The word black in this verse is qadar which means dark skinned in the ancient Hebrew language.

  1022. Nathan March 12, 2011 at 10:20 pm #

    Vermont near Killington. Just planted some peppers and egg plants in our greenhouse that I started from seed back in January. Still have 3 feet of snow on the ground but the sun is strong and plants are growing well in the green house (just a small one 16×28) I am jealous about working on the property, probably more than a month away here still.
    We grow most of our food for the year, have since we came here in 1987. The surplus we donate to Change the World Kids and they use it for homeless folks. We are going to teach the kids gardening this year and set them up with a plot to grow root crops to store to feed the homeless in the winter.

  1023. MarlinFive54 March 12, 2011 at 10:22 pm #

    Here you go Vlad, Nathan, on book TV C Span right now author of a new book about Obamas African Tribal Roots. They, apparently, go deep.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post1
    New England Chapter

  1024. trippticket March 12, 2011 at 10:23 pm #

    “Last year we ate out of those gardens from June to November. This year we hope to get into canning and I’m gathering up the stuff now.”
    Good on ya for being part of that reality. People who don’t garden don’t understand the sublime satisfaction that comes from producing, and storing, your own food. They think it’s quaint, and old fashioned, but they have no idea about the truth of it. There is no activity more dangerous to the status quo than self-reliance. You start providing for yourself and suddenly you start questioning everything. It’s very bad for governments and corporations.
    You might as well benefit from the knowledge of those who walked the path just in front of you:
    http://www.reusablecanninglids.com/
    BPA’s nasty, so is throwing away canning lids after one use. Avoid them both.

  1025. MarlinFive54 March 12, 2011 at 10:26 pm #

    Nathan;
    Do you attend that crazy 4 July parade in Warren? Went last year.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

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  1026. Nathan March 12, 2011 at 10:27 pm #

    I always wonder how a racist deals with the following dilemma:
    1. You know someone of another race and they are wonderful.
    2. You know someone of your own race and they suck.
    3. You are still racist.
    4. You still struggle with simple logic.

  1027. Nathan March 12, 2011 at 10:33 pm #

    Yeah its pretty good, so is the Warren store.
    A geologist that works for our company lives there so I know a lot about the place. Have some other friends there too. The Worlds Fair in Tunbridge is well worth the admission too.

  1028. Nathan March 12, 2011 at 10:34 pm #

    Yeah its pretty good, so is the Warren store.
    A geologist that works for our company lives there so I know a lot about the place. Have some other friends there too. The Worlds Fair in Tunbridge is well worth the admission too.

  1029. MarlinFive54 March 12, 2011 at 10:37 pm #

    Nathan I’d say you are doing God’s work, but that might make some posters on this site mad. I’ll say it anyway.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  1030. Nathan March 12, 2011 at 10:37 pm #

    Those lids look pretty tasty. Jill is gonna love it, she is RRR crazy.

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  1031. Qshtik March 12, 2011 at 10:44 pm #

    I will leave this world without making a single purchase from the demons that own Walmart.
    =============
    Nat, I don’t think you got the drift of my post. It has nothing to do with Walmart.

  1032. Nathan March 12, 2011 at 11:16 pm #

    Sorry, guess I can be pretty literal

  1033. Nathan March 12, 2011 at 11:18 pm #

    Thanks. Just trying to do what I can.

  1034. Buck Stud March 12, 2011 at 11:23 pm #

    Second time in less than a week that the skin color of Jesus has been brought up. Somehow, I doubt the real Jesus will ever been having a Christmas meal at Vlad’s house:
    http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/forensics/1282186

  1035. myrtlemay March 12, 2011 at 11:28 pm #

    Sorry for interrupting your brandy and cigars, gentlemen, but I do believe we have quite a problem with the tsunami impacted nuclear facilities in Japan. Appears to be a muddle. Oh, and who’s paying for this round, anyway? And why has the music stopped?

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  1036. Bustin J March 12, 2011 at 11:48 pm #

    The music stopped because it will soon be raining Cesium-137 and there is not enough vitamin B17 for everyone.

  1037. Qshtik March 13, 2011 at 12:33 am #

    Sorry for interrupting your brandy and cigars, gentlemen,
    =============
    Funny line Myrtle but, really, how would our talking about the tsunami help anything. Did anybody give a thought to Libya today, not to mention Jared Loughner? Maybe we’re all worn out by the world crashing down around our ears and just need to talk about something else … like what Jesus looked like.
    I’m guessing he resembled Lloyd Blankfine when he still had hair.

  1038. Vlad Krandz March 13, 2011 at 1:13 am #

    They are the egregors or archetypes of our Race, that’s why. Ask a Voodoo Priest to portray their Gods as White and see what he says. At the highest level, the Gods symbolize non-racial ideas and processes. At the lower levels, they portray us. Christianity is a Universal Religion and thus doesn’t get into this lower dimension. Thus it is appropriate for Africans to portray Jesus and Mary as Black – as long as they don’t mind us portraying them as White.

  1039. lsjogren March 13, 2011 at 1:26 am #

    someone said:
    “JHK: The fact is that this is a national emergency; $4.00 per gallon gasoline literally takes food out of the mouths of the children of our poorest citizens”
    If $4 gasoline is a national emergency, what term will you use to describe $100 gasoline?

  1040. Vlad Krandz March 13, 2011 at 1:34 am #

    Yes most Whites now feel as you do. Thus our Race has no future unless there is an awakening. No People can survive the manufactured multi-cultural competition unless they feel they are special. And this is the very quality that has been relentlessly programmed out of us. And you actually believe that other Races feel towards us the same good will you feel towards them. You are so confident of this that you have never even bother to look. Oh fatal mistake.

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  1041. lsjogren March 13, 2011 at 1:39 am #

    “Woe to those of you in gated communities…I don’t envy your position one iota.”
    The day may come when the public locks up their gates from the oustide.
    I guess then names like Wisteria Estates will get new names like Leavenworth Heights.

  1042. montsegur March 13, 2011 at 4:16 am #

    LewisLucanBooks asked: “Didn’t I read (somewhere, sometime, maybe in another life?) that in Germany they plant fruit and nut trees along the highways that are part of the Commons? That anyone can harvest the bounty? ”
    ===============================
    I haven’t seen this or am not aware of it. One thing I have seen, and that I find absolutely wasteful, is local apple orchards with their fruit fallen to the ground and rotting. I suppose no one would care if those got taken.
    So what kind of apples get eaten here? Well, there are apples from, ahem, New Zealand in the stores. I guess this is one the many bounties of globalism.
    Cheers

  1043. MarlinFive54 March 13, 2011 at 9:03 am #

    CFNers;
    Does anybody know WTF is happening with those Reactors in NE Japan? There was this huge explosion but the ‘experts’ that CNN is trotting out, as well as the Japanese Ambassador, say No Problem, everything is under control.
    I’m in the dark, here.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  1044. progressorconserve March 13, 2011 at 9:23 am #

    Marlin –
    Complete shot in the dark before I move on to Vlad’s insults from last night. Maybe it was a steam explosion from the emergency cooling water they are pumping in. That power plant and surrounding area is going to be written off and demolished before they start over, regardless.
    Considering the Japanese have a fear of radiation greater than any other people – and their nuclear technology is likely equal or superior to any on earth – this is disturbing.
    =====================
    One an unrelated note –
    I see nothing wrong with daylight savings time.
    I see nothing wrong with standard time.
    But this idiotic, infernal changing back in forth twice a year has to have been inspired by devils in Hell – or else by the US congress.
    Why can we not pick a time – either time – and just stay on that one.

  1045. trippticket March 13, 2011 at 9:36 am #

    Marlin, the less you hear about it when Japan is concerned the worse it probably is…

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  1046. lbendet March 13, 2011 at 10:15 am #

    The Trouble with Group-Think
    Yesterday Asoka reacted to my post concerning building new nuclear power plants in lieu of the nuclear power plant disaster in Japan. He praised the use of the isotope Thorium for what we might use in the US.
    When I asked whether Thorium was under consideration here he said no because they can’t make weaponry out of the spent isotope.
    Well, I do think we often have bad priorities, here, but I chalk it up to a deficiency of group think. When organizations make decisions, they usually go with what they already know and understand. I wouldn’t expect creative thinking coming out of the corporate or government groups.
    We can discuss how good ideas get lost in the mix, between private agendas, power plays and corruption along with basic human nature issues. We generally don’t do as well as our potential, given that there really is talent and more progressive ideas out there which could make the difference.
    Q: You discuss the economy in terms of left-right govt. vs. corporate. It’s as if we were in the paradigm of a national, sovereign economic climate. If only it were so! Then yours would be a meaningful discussion. That was so yesterday, today we are global and we have a TBTF monopoly transnational model, now. (Speaking of group-think, they forgot to include the American middle class in their design).
    The problem we face is that the corporations are getting our tax dollars instead of “We the People” and they are trying to impose austerity for the little people. We have no say in International economic trade laws. We are truly up against a wall and we need to recognize what is.
    It’s absurd of one of the posters here to say that most of the people on this blog are of the Howard Zinn-Noam Chomsky camp. That just doesn’t compute. It’s the Milton Friedman Neoliberal regressive model we need to challenge and there are many more voices out there that are fighting to get heard.
    Why would anyone stick-up for the rampant Balkanization and privatization of expensive services for the last 30 years? Even if you’re rich you’re getting gouged. Government services will always be cheaper than private because they don’t need to keep making profits bringing the costs up.
    Government should be researching what money is already in place to address issues that crop up. It’s called working! These idiots we elect don’t want to work, that’s why we’re wasting tax-payer money.(and payola)
    Yesterday I introduced myself to a new neighbor down the hall. He is the consummate “Buppy”. –Now Vlad, we don’t want you to blow a gasket!
    He said he had worked for Lehman and now is at Goldman Sacks. (in the belly of the beast)
    I discussed with him the lowering of rates for the American middle class, while our services and rents etc are going higher and how much easier it is for the BRIC countries to live with the lower wages. He totally agreed it was going in a bad direction for the American middle class which is getting screwed.

  1047. JonathanSS March 13, 2011 at 10:23 am #

    …infernal changing back in forth twice a year…

    I’m completely on the same time zone as you on this. A writer suggested the whole country in the Fall move back one-half hour as a compromise and leave it at that. I can’t think why that wouldn’t work, except for the automatic change in our electronics, which could be stopped.
    Note: Shout out to Grammar Nazi Q (no words for you!). I had typed in accept, but replaced it with except. My Oxford Dictionary of the English Language (not American Language) says the two words are confused.

  1048. progressorconserve March 13, 2011 at 10:29 am #

    Bustin – I accuse you you of *making up* your own scientific theory involving impact of a “foreign” plant with the newly formed Earth – and of saying that this impact is essential for evolution of life on Earth – and presenting it to the CFN thread as though it was current mainstream scientific thought.
    Here’s your response:
    “I’m not sure what you are talking about here. Are you the moron talking about how Galileo’s marginal error in position at 6.7 million miles from Earth according to Euclidean geometry challenged Einstein’s Theory of Gravity?
    Or where I was busting your balls for being an apologist for idiot god-believers?”
    -bustinj-
    Neither one, bustin – see above.
    (and apparently your memory isn’t that good, either)
    I had complimented you on getting your science information correct, as you argued in favor of Atheism.
    I was wrong to compliment you. If you will make up science to prove a point – all of your other wonderful *sounding* arguments invoking science have to considered suspect as well.
    Everyone should understand that this does not change the basic nature of the Atheism vs Agnosticism debate.
    It just means that you should not rely on Bustin to present a factual, accurate, and unbiased perspective on science.
    ============================
    This may be a trivial matter to a non-scientist. But I assume there are +/- 10 lurking readers for every poster. I did not want my original compliments to Bustin to result in someone being mislead concerning his accuracy. I therefore formally withdraw any compliments – stated or implied – that I rendered toward Bustin’s posts.

  1049. JonathanSS March 13, 2011 at 10:31 am #

    Buppy: a young, upwardly mobile black professional. Is that right? I assume he wasn’t a baby puppy.

  1050. Cavepainter March 13, 2011 at 10:57 am #

    No matter if “leaks” have occurred in Japan releasing a cloud of deathly exposure riding the jetstream toward America; the concern of officialdom would be to keep populations in place. In the impersonal “greater” calculus for preserving order in the near term and, hence, the society in the long term, avoiding mass migrations will trump all else. Just imagine how the dire circumstances would be expanded geographically if all the specialist necessary to maintain and attend critical infrastructure in affected areas (other nuclear plants, for instance) abandoned their posts. Then, of course, theres the tsunami of refugees that could completly collapse the resources and social order of the regions not affected by what the refugees are fleeing. A greater hell will break loose.

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  1051. lbendet March 13, 2011 at 11:04 am #

    You got it, JSS
    That’s why I said I hope Vlad doesn’t blow a gasket.

  1052. orionoir March 13, 2011 at 11:10 am #

    {Woe to those of you in gated communities…I don’t envy your position one iota.}
    ——
    there was a typical yahoo news story re the priciest neighborhoods in america… your typical “holy shit, willya lookit that, myrna” journalism. the winner was a clump of greenwich, ct, bordering the country club. so i fired up trusty ol’ google earth for a look-see, it’s easy enough to find the country club, don’t need no stinking coordinates for that one.
    google flyovers are a cure loneliness. streetview pedestrians are like my loved ones.
    back in the day, i used to get fucked up with rich kids, it’s easy to do, all you have to do is be shiny, happy & win a lot of races, they’re happy to keep you as a pet. i recall william styron in a bathrobe, glass of scotch in his hand, hitting on girls or boys, he couldn’t tell which.
    richistan is the best place in the world in which to get high. if you’re feeling naughty you can climb the fence by the pool to get to some other pool with another party going on; more often than not the new party welcomes you with open arms, in which case you rinse repeat iteratively til you end up on some street patrolled by benevolent cops who steer you back to your starting point.
    that’s what i thought about as i hovered ghost-like above greenwich’s triangle of death, cheever’s “swimmer” and topshelf booze, how surreal it is, how there is no gravity. those people take care of their trees; round here, morons saw down hundred year oaks just to see if the saw works. those people somehow pull off opulent gargantuism with style & grace. those people are going to need a boatload of help when jhk gets to town.

  1053. orionoir March 13, 2011 at 11:14 am #

    {Woe to those of you in gated communities…I don’t envy your position one iota.}
    ——
    [editor’s note: the because the algorithmic blogowner don’t like this none, the following has been edited to remove sense & sensibility, pride & passion, sound & fury.]
    there was a typical yhoo news story re the priciest neighborhoods in america… your typical “holy hounds of hell, willya lookit that, myrna” journalism. the winner was a clump of grunsdorf, ct, bordering the country club. so i fired up trusty ol’ goggle earth for a look-see, it’s easy enough to find the country club, don’t need no stinking coordinates for that one.
    gaggle flyovers are a cure loneliness. streetview pedestrians are like my loved ones.
    back in the day, i used to get flogged with rich kids, it’s easy to do, all you have to do is be shiny, happy & win lots of races, they’re happy to keep you as a pet. i recall william styron in a bathrobe, glass of scrotch in his hand, hitting on girls or boys, he couldn’t tell which.
    richistan is the best place in the world in which to get h1gh. if you’re feeling naughty you can climb the fence by the pool to get to some other pool with another party going on; more often than not the new party welcomes you with open arms, in which case you rinse repeat iteratively til you end up on some street patrolled by benevolent cops who steer you back to your starting point.
    that’s what i thought about as i hovered ghost-like above verdemerde’s triangle of death, cheever’s “swimmer” and topshelf booze, how surreal it is, how there is no gravity. those people take care of their trees; round here, morons saw down hundred year oaks just to see if the saw works. those people somehow pull off opulent gargantuism with style & grace. those people are going to need a boatload of help when jhk gets to town.

  1054. orionoir March 13, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    {I therefore formally withdraw any compliments – stated or implied – that I rendered toward Bustin’s posts.}
    ——
    gosh, i bet we all have some similar work to do! hear now, a partial list of compliments i must formally withdraw:
    * buffy gazelle, i was lying when i said i knew just what you meant, about how your father cares more about the new york mets than his own daughter: as a point of fact, even when they’re throwing away a six game lead with two weeks left in the season, the mets are a whole lot more interesting than you;
    * bristol palin, i hereby recant any endorsement, expressed & implied, of your opinion that a hockey player’s willingness to get in front of a slap shot in traffic is a reliable indicator of his oral sex proficiency and or proclivity;
    * mitt romney, i no longer stand by my comment that you are some kind of a serious righteous dude;
    * floyd landis, when i said that you have the balls of a brass monkey, i may have deliberately indulged some degree of nubulosity with respect to whether brass monkey balls are a good thing or not; now, let me make one thing perfectly clear: brass is a manufactured substance, responsible for the utter desiccation, denudation, & dandandification of the formerly-storied seven hills of waterbury, ct, and as such not the sort of thing anyone would want his balls so to be compared.

  1055. orionoir March 13, 2011 at 11:47 am #

    {I therefore formally withdraw any compliments – stated or implied – that I rendered toward Bustin’s posts.}
    ——
    gosh, i bet we all have some similar work to do! hear now, a partial list of compliments i must formally withdraw:
    * buffy gazelle, i was lying when i said i knew just what you meant, about how your father cares more about the new york mets than his own daughter: as a point of fact, even when they’re throwing away a six game lead with two weeks left in the season, the mets are a whole lot more interesting than you;
    * bristol palin, i hereby recant any endorsement, expressed & implied, of your opinion that a hockey player’s willingness to get in front of a slap shot in traffic is a reliable indicator of his ora1 sex proficiency and or proclivity;
    * mitt romney, i no longer stand by my comment that you are some kind of a serious righteous dude;
    * floyd landis, when i said that you have the ba1ls of a brass monkey, i may have deliberately indulged some degree of nubulosity with respect to whether brass monkey bal1s are a good thing or not; now, let me make one thing perfectly clear: brass is a manufactured substance, responsible for the utter desiccation, denudation, & dandandification of the formerly-storied seven hills of waterbury, ct, and as such not the sort of thing anyone would want his ba11s so to be compared.

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  1056. Qshtik March 13, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    Government services will always be cheaper than private because they don’t need to keep making profits bringing the costs up.
    ==================
    This single sentence ^ demonstrates where your line of reasoning, and the reasoning of so many others at CFN, goes astray. It is precisely “the profit motive” the promotes efficiency and lower costs.

  1057. asoka March 13, 2011 at 11:54 am #

    Qshtik, which is cheaper: government paid soldiers or DoD private contractor rent-a-soldiers?

  1058. Qshtik March 13, 2011 at 11:56 am #

    Snowflake said:
    One an unrelated note
    changing back in forth
    =============
    TeeHee chortle snort.

  1059. Qshtik March 13, 2011 at 11:59 am #

    the promotes efficiency
    ==========
    correction:
    that promotes efficiency

  1060. lbendet March 13, 2011 at 12:03 pm #

    Q.,
    What I’m saying is that the price of the services go up at a rate of at least 3% to make a profit each year. And knowing the greed factor at work, more than 3%. Why has the cost of medical insurance skyrocket since the late ’70’s to something entirely unaffordable?
    If the senators and congressmen actually checked for redundancy in funding, we could be saving billions as was pointed out by Dylan Ratigan, who is basically a financial conservative. They are too lazy and busy raising funds for their nex elections to pay attention to what has already been funded in earlier programs. (that’s both parties my friend)

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  1061. lbendet March 13, 2011 at 12:13 pm #

    Correction: I tried to add the t in next, but it was too late.
    ——-
    They are too lazy and busy raising funds for their next elections to pay attention to what has already been funded in earlier programs. (that’s both parties my friend)

  1062. Qshtik March 13, 2011 at 12:20 pm #

    which is cheaper: government paid soldiers or DoD private contractor rent-a-soldiers?
    =============
    Who runs a slicker operation, the US Post Office or United Parcel Service?
    Please do not try convincing me that the Post Office is not really a government operation.
    I googled “is the post office run by govt?” Read this link (it’s short) and in particular the comments that follow it.
    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100618134709AANgOWW

  1063. ront March 13, 2011 at 12:21 pm #

    Bustin J, what you are calling sentimental bullshit: Marlinspoke “What I meant to say is what Solzhenytsen points out: In trying times people with faith in God fare better than those that lack faith,” I would call hasty generalization.
    Your anecdote is a sad one: “This guy was gripped by the concept that God was punishing him.” I do not see a problem with God but an inability to let go of a ignorant concept. “Believers” will often become nonbelievers and vice versa depending on their experience. M. Scott Peck wrote that when he was a psychotherapist, after a breakthrough with a client, the client would often become religious or give up their religion.
    God and the laws of creation are always delivering lessons of life to direct toward truth anyone who is receptive. The fellow in your anecdote was gripped by an illusion. Even though he himself may have been unable to become disillusioned, maybe he served others as an example, indirectly helping them spiritually. If that were so, he might get a great boost once he gets into an afterlife review. All are redeemable, but only God can love everyone. But that does not mean one shouldn’t try.

  1064. orionoir March 13, 2011 at 12:26 pm #

    {Goldman Sacks. (in the belly of the beast)}
    ——
    lbendet, not really in response to any particular thing you’ve been saying… i just have a couple idle comments i’m figure i might as well direct your way as an alternative to getting up from this machine and attending to something burning on the stove…
    1. re goldman ~ a few years ago i got to know one of their prog/analysts; it was hard not to be overwhelmed with envy, awe & screaming beatle-fan ecstasy, since wall street has always seemed to me code-whoring’s mt olympus — anyhow, the guy was a serious kind of spiritual wreck in a weird kind of way; like our current pope, there was this inescapable stench of evil all about him. oddest thing i’ve ever encountered, and for me, that’s saying something.
    my theory is that somewhere along the way the money, power, importance, & “specialness” of his work life just hollowed him out from the core. he had worked in tokyo for many years, and from his telling the trappings of status — big bmw, big apartment, suits, etc — were even more magical there than they were in new york. i don’t have a lot of confidence in my theory; i suppose i’m still disturbed by the thought of him, how he had everything i’ve always wanted, how it summed to something monstrous.
    2. i notice you mention milton friedman a lot; economics fascinates me, but i never get around to reading the stuff. the house in which we’re living right now was previously owned by the widow of an economics prof (who was long dead before we entered the picture, but whose presence persists nonetheless… whenever there’s something re the house which seems out of whack, i first have to ask myself, wait, the guy was smarter than satan, is this yet another case of me being too dumb to understand his intelligence?) (of course, i’ve harvested seventeen million of his whiskey bottles from the woods.) (from all accounts, he was not a fun drunk.)
    the guy got his doctorate at chicago; i found the framed sheepskin in the attic. it has friedman’s signature on it. if i were ethically compulsive i might try to track down his surviving sons — the widow died years ago — but from what i’ve heard, they despise his memory even more than everyone else. so the thing sits in a closet, testament to my high character, eg, that i haven’t pasted my name over his in order to at last claim the ph.d. which god has so unfairly denied me.

  1065. ozone March 13, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

    Ah, the joys of cancer and its’ attendants: the “benign tumors” of many composites and descriptions.
    Been a bit preoccupied with a thyroid tumor of my wife’s. It’s been determined to be benign, although half of the gland had to be removed to find that out. (Tricky spot for scalpel fun; lots of blood vessels and those pesky vocal cord nerves. 3 hours of delicate butchery.) As those of us who witness/undergo these procedures know, diagnostic tools are a bit over-rated in their accuracy and omniscience.
    I’ve lost a brother to a horribly rapid metastasizing colon cancer (just the starting point in that case), and my sister had about 7 ft. of her colon removed about 2 months ago. So, I hardly need say that I get “worried” when the word “tumor” arises in a diagnostic/speculative consultation! :o0
    Anyways, a lot to read through this week, but I don’t see much to add to everyone’s comments and observations. (So I won’t.)
    Keep on, keepin’ on; it’s REFOCUS time for everyone, as never before!
    (…and, please, no prayers ‘n shit; my wife doesn’t condone that, and would threaten you with extreme violence. ;o) Thanks

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  1066. Qshtik March 13, 2011 at 12:29 pm #

    expressed & implied
    ==========
    expressed or implied

  1067. progressorconserve March 13, 2011 at 12:32 pm #

    “It is precisely “the profit motive” the promotes efficiency and lower costs.”
    -snowflakeII-
    This profit motive manifests precisely in terminating the wage and benefit packages of public workers. And then replacing these public workers with private contractors who pay less, provide no benefits, and hire illegal workers whenever they can.
    For, example I just finished a big expensive wrangle with the GA DNR over TWO missing boat registrations. Boat registrations were done in-house by State staff until 5 years ago – and always done efficiently and well.
    Georgia outsourced this function to some private business (in NJ, I believe – ironic, isn’t it) so this private agency now has mandatory access to my SSN and other data. And they mark their mail “DO NOT FORWARD” which is what led to my particular messy situation.
    Private business is OK for what it does – but too much of the right manifests a “childlike faith” in the free market to always make things better. This is sometimes true upon superficial analysis.
    And often wrong when all aspects are considered.
    ==================
    Also, Q – that’s the first time in 8 months that you have graded a post of mine for grammar or spelling. I’ve learned to take your grammar fetish with a grain of salt.
    You do realize, however, that some new posters do disappear shortly after receiving one of your critiques – and never reappear. Maybe some would leave anyway – but we’ll never know.
    One in particular I have in mind is that man recently returned home from Iraquistan who was posting about a month ago. His was a voice we need on CFN. I can still give a quote from him verbatim: “It’s just the way things are. And the way things are is fucked up.”
    This – Q’s premature grammar/spelling grading of new posters – was the original criticism that I directed at you 8 months ago, which lead to the mamby/snowflake/prick warfare – that few on CFN, other than you or I, even understand any longer.
    I would make a couple of suggestions.
    But you would, quite likely, ignore them, or try to turn them into insults.

  1068. lbendet March 13, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    O,
    The only reason why I repeat myself so often is that the media talks around Friedman and the Chicago School of Business without ever mentioning names. They say in the abstract “think tanks” and such, but if one were to follow the trail where these names lead, one would understand what global neoliberalism means and the history starting with Chile and Pinochet. I recommend you read Naomi Klein’s “The Shock Doctrine and the rise of Disaster Capitalism” you will appreciate what’s happening in real time and the quest for privatization whenever there’s a disaster.

  1069. Buck Stud March 13, 2011 at 12:46 pm #

    “If that were so, he might get a great boost once he gets into an afterlife review.”
    Corporeal clamoring for ethereal reward –I can hear St. Rowdy Yates rounding em up as I type. And the notion of an after-life review is the greatest device of manipulation ever invented.

  1070. budizwiser March 13, 2011 at 12:59 pm #

    Hmmm, nuclear energy is not nearly as efficient in practice as it is in theory, especially if you build reactors in geologically unstable areas.
    Hmmm, BAD NEWS – 9,000 mega watt capacity offline in northern Japan.
    Hmmm, GOOD NEWS 10,000 mega watt drop in demand in northern Japan.
    Hmmm.

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  1071. jackieblue2u March 13, 2011 at 1:00 pm #

    Your post reminds me of something I read I can’t remember the author.
    But it was something like “maybe my whole life serves as an example of what NOT to do”, cuz he felt he his life was a mess, it WAS a mess.
    I could relate. But I don’t think that (a) God is punishing me, I just think I got caught up in a bad situation and need to take more action for good changes to occur.

  1072. ozone March 13, 2011 at 1:05 pm #

    Oh, Walmart/WaltonFam’bly purchases?
    I’d say weapons and ammunition purchases will prove to be massively ironic in the long-term. (That long-term is getting to be algorithmically shorter by the day!)
    Woe betide the gated community of easily-thwarted supply lines and complex, brittle infrastructure. Oh ye of elephantine hubris, beware…

  1073. jackieblue2u March 13, 2011 at 1:08 pm #

    okay no prayers. I have a tumor on my thyroid, benign, I’ve had it biopsied a few times. Needle in neck, (I have a great doctor for that, or it wouldn’t happen.) I am going back again, it’s been a couple years.
    I recently lost 17 lbs. which is good, but hope I’m not dying and don’t want to lose no more. I am wondering if it’s my thyroid. I hope they don’t want to take part of it out. Will google that now.
    Oh here’s what I was going to say first, I get sidetracked way too easy.
    My husband would Love it if they accidentally cut my vocal cords so I couldn’t talk !
    only halfway kidding.
    🙂

  1074. progressorconserve March 13, 2011 at 1:18 pm #

    “I am frankly shocked at your rough treatment of progressorconserve. I think you should apologize to him.”
    -martin-
    One of the lessons that Pres. Reagan and BushII taught to the right wing – never admit you are in doubt, never admit you are wrong, and NEVER EVER APOLOGIZE. So while I appreciate your words of support, marlin, I suspect that no apology will be forthcoming from Mr. Vlad.
    So we must push on without it. In trying to deal with me, Vlad displays his naivety on racism. All he has are unworkable theories. Since I was born to a white middle class family in Georgia in the ’50’s – I have more than theories – much more.
    I have the absolute certitude of what it was like to be white in a society devoted to white superiority. I have the sense of loss – to all stakeholders – that goes with seeing a way of living that evolved between 1864 and 1963 ripped apart – by outside forces – in disregard of the impact on the black and white lives being impacted.
    I have a good perspective on the soul-destroying hatred that obsessive racism can engender in a person. Vlad’s posts give evidence that he balances on the knife edge between honor and obsession.
    An obsession over racism is a nasty and vile obsession. I have seen it destroy more than one life. There is a better way that I am trying to help Vlad see.
    His anger and insults indicate to me that he’s at the edge of his own ideas – the point where a person must either retreat, yell like Hell, or begin to think. And it hurts to think.

  1075. ront March 13, 2011 at 1:21 pm #

    ” But I don’t think that (a) God is punishing me, I just think I got caught up in a bad situation and need to take more action for good changes to occur.”
    Brilliant. “Don’t worry about the things you can’t change and don’t worry about the things you can change.”

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  1076. ozone March 13, 2011 at 1:22 pm #

    “okay no prayers. I have a tumor on my thyroid, benign, I’ve had it biopsied a few times. Needle in neck, (I have a great doctor for that, or it wouldn’t happen.) I am going back again, it’s been a couple years.” -jackieblue
    Yep, my wife had all manner of testing done, including a needle biopsy. What was concerning the doctor most was the throat discomfort (persistently sore and a scratchy voice) and the presence of “calcifications”, which he took as reason enough to operate (so those could be ground up and properly biopsied).
    The weight loss could have something to do with a thyroid condition, and that’s apperently quite easily corrected with supplemental drugs. (AND, cancer of the thyroid is the most “treatable” of them all, fortunately.)
    Our son was hoping for a slip of the knife on that nerve that depends down into the chest and back to the vocal cords… a cessation of nagging would be the desired result. ;o) He was kidding!! …i think lol
    -All the Best from near “the other” coast.

  1077. ozone March 13, 2011 at 1:28 pm #

    “apparently” (I think?), just for Q. ;o)

  1078. jackieblue2u March 13, 2011 at 1:32 pm #

    I hear ya !

  1079. ront March 13, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

    ” I recommend you read Naomi Klein’s “The Shock Doctrine and the rise of Disaster Capitalism” you will appreciate what’s happening in real time and the quest for privatization whenever there’s a disaster.”
    I whole-heartedly second this recommendation. I wonder if the attacks on public worker unions is shock therapy for the privatizing of our local and state government services? The gospel of neo-liberalism can never stand idly while anything goes on without someone reaping a profit from it.

  1080. jackieblue2u March 13, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

    That’s what I was thinking. It’s bad cuz I ain’t hearing much at all.

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  1081. Qshtik March 13, 2011 at 1:38 pm #

    Qshtik, which is cheaper: government paid soldiers or DoD private contractor rent-a-soldiers?
    ============
    Getting back to the above question, there are at least two ways of looking at this:
    1. That you are making my point … that governments, by their nature, are inefficient (aka, fucked up) and fail to properly plan so they wind up paying through the nose for private contractor soldiers. Frankly, I think this is the harsh view and favor, instead, #2 below.
    2. Suppose Apple is selling I-Pads like hotcakes. Suppose Apple manufactures certain components that make up the I-Pad and buy the rest from subcontractors. Suppose one of the parts they manufacture is the MFTB733G (as in, “mother fucker to build…Gizmo”). Suppose I-Pad demand is so strong that Apple cannot produce the MFTB733G part quickly enough. Apple turns to XYZ Corp whose expertise is making all manner of “mother fucker to build gizmos” BUT they charge through the nose for them. Apple makes the correct business decision: buys the expensive gizmo knowing they will solidify their dominance in the I-Pad segment before competitors flood in although they will suffer SOME loss in profit margin. This, I believe, is analogous to our government “renting” soldiers.

  1082. jackieblue2u March 13, 2011 at 1:39 pm #

    I was thinking about how the news is broadcast.
    I cannot stand ‘our’ news.
    A very serious ‘event’ like radioactive nuclear leaks, and they say it like ‘the sky is blue.’
    We Hear the Tone. We are trained to not react to the really bad shit, they downplay it to the max degree.
    All the other stupid shit, mountain out of a molehill.
    Tripp you can go back to your mole hills, have fun in your gardens. Just don’t forget us here.
    I am trying to join your site, I’ll figure it out.
    even tho I don’t have a place for a garden.
    I am sure it’s simple. It’s me that is slow on computers.

  1083. jackieblue2u March 13, 2011 at 1:41 pm #

    #1079 man that’s alot of comments.

  1084. progressorconserve March 13, 2011 at 1:43 pm #

    Vlad – it is like your obsession twists my words inside your head to the point that even I can hardly understand what you are responding to:
    I said:
    “Speaking of divisive topics besides religion.
    Let me spell out an area where it may be impossible to argue with Vlad using facts.
    – because of energy/economic descent –
    2. Irreversible demographic trends in the United States have produced, or will soon produce, the need for a watchdog group for “white people.” This group will have to adopt the nonviolence of the NAACP and the polite assertive intelligence of the ADL.”
    You respond with a non sequetor: (sp?)
    “But Prog goes half way and then sits down and starts peeling a bannana with his toes.”
    -vald-
    OK, whatever, Vlad – drop the insults and respond to my assertion – dealing with one or two important ideas at the time – and as few side issues as possible.

  1085. jackieblue2u March 13, 2011 at 1:44 pm #

    you can get on ebay also.

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  1086. Qshtik March 13, 2011 at 1:52 pm #

    …and don’t want to lose no more.
    =========
    any

  1087. jackieblue2u March 13, 2011 at 1:57 pm #

    CONTRARIANS are no fun. All they want to do it disagree and argue. I think that they do not know WHO they are and define themselves by being contrary.
    I know one, let’s just put it that way. Thankfully I KNOW who I am.
    I think it has to do with Narsissism.

  1088. Buck Stud March 13, 2011 at 1:58 pm #

    I have to disagree. In the world away from the computer Vlad is probably meek as a mouse. Let me give you a hypothetical example. Vlad has been circling around a very crowded parking the last half-hour or so looking for a parking space, when suddenly he spots an SUV backing out two rows over. He then puts pedal to the medal, scattering an elderly white woman in the process, as he speeds to his destination. At exactly the moment Vlad arrives to turn into his parking space he notices a “Brother” with eyes on the exact same space. Donning the very same charm that infatuated his South-American male admirer, Vlad smiles and waves the black guy into the parking space he so badly wanted.
    No, the Vlad’s of the world may open up on the world wide web, but in the everyday world it’s all smiles and courtesy. What the Vlad’s of the world do is move away, quietly. They form insular communities while simultaneously fighting to enact legislation that covertly harms inner-city (read minority) communities. Legislation such as tying school funding to performance. These Devil’s are masters at erecting and solidifying covert structures of systemic racism and economic stratification. They wave aside centuries of abuse and injustice and declare the playing field level. And when the dog inevitably ends up chasing his own tail–de-funding poor schools due to lack of performance, thus amplifying the original charge–they stand with their palms facing up and innocently ask: “ But what is more fair than a meritocracy ? ”
    No these are not the descendants of the proud and brave: they are sneaky, two-faced back-stabbers. And now they stab each other.

  1089. progressorconserve March 13, 2011 at 1:59 pm #

    I you are looking for a multicultural “tribe” the US military does provide a good example.
    However, look to the chow halls and off-duty times and you will find a whole lot of self-segregation in the military.
    Look at any lunch room in any integrated school in America and you will find extreme self-segregation by race and social class.
    It is my contention that modern multi-culturalism will not survive in its present state in an energy descending world.
    If the lights stay on and the food keeps coming, then Cash may be right – and American society will miscegenate itself into “multiculturalism” within the next 100 years or so – maybe.
    But this website is devoted to examination of resource depletion and associated collapse.
    Which is why these things are worthy of examination by CFN. Even if some of us find this examination to be unpleasant.

  1090. Buck Stud March 13, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    apologies to Q for the possesive oversight.

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  1091. Vlad Krandz March 13, 2011 at 2:24 pm #

    Oh so NOW you support the rights of “white people” as you put it – as if it was your original idea and I believe something different. You are so crooked you must catch yourself coming when you’re going. You are a Southerner the way Bill Clinton is – a ridge running ape.
    Apparently my anger has made you think for a moment – but as soon as you are with other strident Anti-White Liberals I guess you will revert to your Whites have no rights paradigm. After all, that is what they believe and you are uncomfortable about not agreeing with people – especially people of your liberal tribe.

  1092. lbendet March 13, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

    I couldn’t agree more!
    Now let’s look at what the IMF and world Bank have to say about Japan’s big deficit economy and eventually ours.
    Don’t forget they’ve been feeding the zombie banks too.
    Let’s hope they have the smarts to contact Michael Hudson fight these neoliberal entities. He has been helpful in Europe.
    ____________________________
    Economic determinism and China. As Veblen would point out, the great economy and military go hand-in-hand. China is beginning to show her military prowess in the world as an extension of economic interests in the world. They are following in our footsteps of 70 yrs ago, as Fareed Zacharia points out on GPS today. Worth checking out on the web.
    _______
    Jackie2Blue
    Best wishes on your surgery. I’m sure you won’t miss a beat on this blog.

  1093. Vlad Krandz March 13, 2011 at 2:39 pm #

    No that’s what you would do. I would give him the spot if he was closer or take it if I was. I would not connect with him if at all possible. If we got there at the same time, I might well back down: parking spots aren’t worth blood and Blacks have very short tempers. There was a case in the news just the other day about a Black who broke a woman’s jaw over a parking spot. I would act the same with a White Guy in all three scenarios. Sorry. I know you’d love for me to go to jail and get beaten, raped, and/or killed.
    I think it was Sun Tzu (among others) who said war is deception. So you’re partly right. We are in a long term struggle for our Nation. Any White Man who fights openly will be destroyed. And any White who practices terrorism goes against his better nature. So…a difficult situation. Whites did not help themseles when they blew up those little Black Girls in that Church back in the 60’s. As David Duke said, the streets had been full of protestors up till then -but then empty, everyone ashamed. Yet our Cause is fundamentally Just. We have the right to our own Nations just like every other People. That you refuse to recongnize this is just pure Ignorance and Bigotry. You are a Bigot and should be ashamed of yourself.

  1094. wagelaborer March 13, 2011 at 2:50 pm #

    Here is the truly sad thing, lbendet.
    Milton Friedman was to the left of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.
    Even he recognized that capitalism couldn’t provide everyone with a “job”, so he proposed a guaranteed income for every American, a negative income tax.
    Also endorsed by Richard Nixon.
    So here we are, all these years later, so far to the right that when oldwhattizname proposes a guaranteed income, he’s ridiculed as a Utopian.
    Like I said, sad.

  1095. wagelaborer March 13, 2011 at 2:56 pm #

    I withdraw my compliment to Marlin for presenting himself honestly.
    His persona is a not-too-bright good ol’ boy, with no interest in politics, just occasionally aw shucksing a few points.
    Turns out he’s a college graduate, very interested in politics, with a coherent John Birch view of the world.
    Not exactly as he tries to seem.

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  1096. Buck Stud March 13, 2011 at 3:07 pm #

    “Sorry. I know you’d love for me to go to jail and get beaten, raped, and/or killed.”
    Wrong again Vlad. You’re far too “colorful” for me to wish you such a fate.
    Did you really call me a bigot? LOL!

  1097. Cash March 13, 2011 at 3:08 pm #

    If the lights stay on and the food keeps coming, then Cash may be right – and American society will miscegenate itself into “multiculturalism” within the next 100 years or so – maybe. – Pro
    I have great faith in the power of libido so I think inter marriage will probably work its magic.
    But I don’t think that this means we will miscegenate into “multiculturalism”. I think you’ll have people walking around with bloodlines in them of different races. Culture is a different matter.
    We have some experience up here in Canada with English-French bi-culturalism. And guess what? It doesn’t work. I won’t bore you with the blow by blow but the French of Quebec have turned their backs on English Canada. They’ve demonstrated this repeatedly at the ballot box by voting in separatists in federal parliament.
    And, within English Canada, we have East/West fracture lines that are economically based but also to some extent cultural. One of our respected political commentators up here said that we think Quebec alienation is bad then go out West. It’s worse there.
    So why are we delusional enough to think that “multi-culturalism” will work?
    Up here a politician (a candidate for Ontario Premier) made the mistake of suggesting that Muslims should have separate provincially funded schools. This was in the middle of an election campaign. He lost big time. The idea was shot down by mainstream voters.
    Several years ago there was a push to establish Sharia based family courts in Ontario. There was a shitstorm of protest, not least from Muslim women who knew what this implied for them. The idea was finally shelved as not doable by the Ontario premier.
    Multi-culturalism is a dog that don’t hunt. The idea up here started as a sop for the ethnics cooked up by the Liberal Trudeau govt to scam ethnic voters. But our oh so hip Anglo anti-establishmentarian liberals saw the opportunity to use the idea to shit on their own society and heritage and demonstrate their leftist bona fides by pushing other cultures to the detriment of our own. Contemptible to say the least.
    And it makes me howl with laughter to see that Quebecers want nothing to do with multi culturalism. Immigrants have the obligation to learn and live by the rules of Quebecois society or hit the road.
    The reason that our society works is that immigrants assimilate into the wider Anglo society and live by the norms and laws and culture of that society, like my own family has. And one other thing, this is not a nation of immigrants. 80% of us, me included, were born here.
    So you guys in the US want some advice? Don’t go there. It won’t work.

  1098. Vlad Krandz March 13, 2011 at 3:09 pm #

    I have met a few nice buppies! I like puppies more but I have no automatic problem with them! (sure). Seriously though, (if you care) the question is obviously how many more qualified Whites did they displace in College, resume wise, application wise, and in the actual workplace once the job was attained. Despite what the Bucks of the world believe, Affirmative Action is immensely destructive to all concerned.
    Btw (if you care what I really think), I have no automatic problem with the races sharing work space or even living in the same comminity. But the Whole White World, and only the White World, has been slated for radical integration. What gives them the right? Where we ever asked? I say no and many others would to if they had a choice.
    We have to look outside the box. Many situations are degenerating – the racial situation in Hawaii isn’t getting any better for Whites for example. And White police and politicians are too timid to do anything to stop the large, angry Polynesian Thugs. So why not give it to Japan? I mean we don’t believe in Nations anymore anyway. And the Japanese will crack down heavily on the Thugs – and thus protect White persons and property. It will be good for business. Tourism from both White America and Japan will increase. Also why not give the radical Polynesians one of the main Islands to rule all for themselves? It would be just and might quiet them a bit. The whole state bans the plentiful geothermal energy just please them. Pele doesn’t want it or something.
    Hawaii was never really our’s. And it acquired a large Asian population early on. I don’t know how the Polys see them, but they clearly hate us so we should leave and let them see how good they had it! See how reasonable I am? If White Civilization is over run here or there, or in South Florida, fine. We were never the majority perhaps. But everywhere and by design? Fuck that shit.

  1099. Vlad Krandz March 13, 2011 at 3:19 pm #

    The Quebecois made a huge mistake equating culture with just language and ignoring Race. They have filled up Montreal with Haitians and other Black Frenchies from Francophone Africa – with predictable results.
    We have been separate from these people for many tens of thosands of years. It’s not strange that they are genetically different from us – and therefore culturally as well. On the contrary, it would be strange if there were no intrinsic differences.

  1100. WestCoast March 13, 2011 at 3:22 pm #

    “Almost all the wealth in America is owned by whites, both in real terms and proportionally.”
    What kind of “Whites”?
    Income levels of America’s major religious groups compared to the average U.S. income distribution.
    Over $100,000 per year:
    8% Black Christians
    9% of Jehovah’s Witnesses
    13% of Evangelicals
    16% Mormons
    16% Muslim
    18% National Average
    18% (Other)
    19% Unaffiliated
    19% Catholic
    21% Christian (Mainline)
    22% Buddhist
    23% Christian (other)
    28% Orthodox
    43% of Hindus
    46% of Jews
    http://awesome.good.is/transparency/web/1002/almighty-dollar/transparency.jpg
    http://awesome.good.is/transparency/web/1002/almighty-dollar/flat.html

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  1101. lbendet March 13, 2011 at 3:39 pm #

    Wage,
    you make a good point about MF on his more conceptual side and Nixon was left of the Dem and Reps of today… Sad indeed! Now Nixon and Eisenhower would be seen as communist, socialist Hitler….you know the beat.–Oh and Reagan raisedd taxes 11 times–guess he was trying to redistribute the wealth in both directions..oops. How does that work?
    Nixon said, even though his staff incl. Kissinger were in the neoliberal camp, “We are all Keynesian Now”. (this greatly upset MF)
    Fact is in practice, esp. in the “laboratory of Chile” he followed a very different precept. I’m afraid whatever some of his good ideas were have never been followed and when put to the test, it has ended up the same way every time. Selling off the public sector at $300-500% of it’s value to the oligarchy and abject poverty for the rest.
    What do they say about those who do the same things over and over expecting a different outcome?
    (My guess is they love the outcome–but sadly this country won’t gain by this–only a few individuals)

  1102. Cash March 13, 2011 at 3:39 pm #

    Vlad, I think the only way forward in the situation you guys find yourselves is to make sure everyone has a fair chance in life. You might start by looking at the education system.
    You may not like it that a lot of black people live there and I’m pretty sure a lot of people won’t say it out loud but they agree with you. And I’m pretty sure a lot of blacks aren’t enamoured of the fact either. After what they’ve been through would you blame them? But this is a circumstance that’s been centuries in the making and IMO it can’t be undone and it shouldn’t be contemplated. You have to make the best of it.
    You say you have no automatic problem sharing work space or living space. That’s a great start.
    No matter if you think whites are superior in terms of IQ or some other measure and even if it were so you would have to accept that you are talking about broad averages. Simple justice and elementary logic would dictate that not all individuals conform to an average and everyone deserves to be judged on his own merits. And “do unto others…” is not a bad rule to live by.

  1103. k-dog March 13, 2011 at 4:00 pm #

    Charlie Sheen’s Winning Recipes”
    Being as posts move ever more distant from reality and lame the more we drift from Mondays lead in, why not.

  1104. k-dog March 13, 2011 at 4:16 pm #

    Post 1100
    Top dog for the blink of an eye.

  1105. ront March 13, 2011 at 4:17 pm #

    Challenging wisdom: Love is the answer and found in the heart:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0-TgM4nbOs

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  1106. MarlinFive54 March 13, 2011 at 4:20 pm #

    Looks like you nailed me dead balls, Wagelaborer. I never thought of myself as a John Bircher, though — weren’t they prominent cold warriors back in the 1960’s?? — but if the shoe fits … as they say.
    Its funny what we reveal about ourselves on this site if we hang around long enough, even when we aren’t particularly trying to deceive anyone.
    Are ‘John Birchers’ welcome here at CFN? I’ll be looking up the ‘John Birch Society’ after I launch this post. I’m wondering if they’re still active. Maybe I’ll sign up.
    That’s one thing I admired about JHK right from the start … an obvious Lib and Club of Romer who wasn’t always hammering the U.S. about looking after its own interests abroad and deploying its splendid military when it saw fit. Here’s something new, I thought.
    How about you, Comrade Wagelaborer, where do you stand?
    Q, are you caught in that New Jersey flooding?
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  1107. AMR March 13, 2011 at 4:21 pm #

    Fracking sounds like a plausible cause for the earthquake swarms in the Barnett Shale. Earthquake swarms around Geyserville, CA and Basel, Switzerland have been attributed to geothermal drilling; the science isn’t entirely settled (like so much of seismology), but the basic mechanics involve the lubrication of seismic faults by deep boreholes, not unlike gas drilling holes. Fracking fluid should increase the lubrication even more.
    The big question in my mind is whether deep drilling is more likely to expedite a “Big One” or release enough friction in smaller earthquake swarms to prevent a hugely catastrophic quake such as Japan’s. Even professional seismologists have no idea.

  1108. San Jose Mom 51 March 13, 2011 at 4:32 pm #

    The PM of Japan calls this earthquake/tsumani/radiation situation “the worst disaster since WWII.” But WWII was a disaster of their own making?
    The news said that France has issued a missive to their citizens residing in Tokyo telling them to leave. My husband was planning to take my son to Japan this summer….but given the threat of aftershocks……maybe they’ll be travelling elsewhere.
    SJmom
    PS–Qshtik…the comments about your daughter’s Rutgers degree were hilarious. My son has been accepted to three universities and will probably pick the Naropa in Boulder, CO. It’s an accredited Buddhist university where he will get a “contemplative education.” I think he’ll be able to spend a lot of time contemplating being poor.

  1109. progressorconserve March 13, 2011 at 4:36 pm #

    Vlad –
    You haven’t responded to the ideas in my post.
    You have, however, called me:
    “a Southerner like Bill Clinton”
    “a ridge running ape”
    “so crooked you must catch yourself coming when…”
    “a member of the liberal tribe”
    “believing in the whites have no rights….”
    At least 5 insults in one short post, Vlad.
    No response to my ideas.
    You fear me and what I represent –
    – otherwise you would engage in more dialog –
    – and fewer insults –

  1110. Qshtik March 13, 2011 at 4:52 pm #

    Q, are you caught in that New Jersey flooding?
    =============
    No, Marlin, everything is OK where I live but the company I retired from is 40 miles north in Wayne, NJ ~ a half mile from the flooding. Floods in that area occur every couple of years but this one looks worse than average.

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  1111. Bustin J March 13, 2011 at 5:08 pm #

    j’accuse said, “Bustin – I accuse you you of *making up* your own scientific theory involving impact of a “foreign” plant with the newly formed Earth – and of saying that this impact is essential for evolution of life on Earth – and presenting it to the CFN thread as though it was current mainstream scientific thought.”
    It was not a “plant”. The origin of life, on a molecular basis: see RNA world theory, involves origin beginning with inorganic molecules. The caveat is that, for understanding this theory, you need to appreciate enzyme kinematics, especially in relation to the laws of thermodynamics. I believe I may have confused some by bringing up Entropic concepts. The basic purpose of that reference, by analogy, would be the simple correlation that to get water, flour, sugar and salt to mix together to form the batter, it has to be agitated (an input of energy) to achieve a complex mixture. The Earth is a batter of particles, and by the 2nd law of thermodynamics, unmixing itself. This accounts for the Japanese Earthquake of 3/11, and the fact that we are all decomposing.
    The precursor to that was the collision of a large planetoid (did I make that word up? Do I have the powerz of creations? Maybe I do!) and Primordial Earth, known as the “Giant Impact Hypothesis”. The mixture of planetary materials, formation of the atmosphere, stratification of geologic layers, etc. was aided by the enormous amount of energy inputted into the system by a galactic collision.
    The Earth/moon system is a machine with a funky ellipticity that ensures our funky mixture will have a source of energy to drive up the less-ordered parts of the batter to a higher order, for as long as the relationship continues.
    The current status of Earth as the only complex life sustaining planet is probably due to such unusual eccentricity, ultimately. Not too cold, not too hot, have a moon to absorb extra perturbing asteroid collisions, the tidal energies, thermal vents, superheated core, etc. and so on.
    “If you will make up science to prove a point – all of your other wonderful *sounding* arguments invoking science have to considered suspect as well.”
    I often advocate teaching children logic so they are not lost in the primordial soup of “Anything is possible”, which is a uber-canard of the artificial self-esteem movement sadly sloshing over into the realm of rational analysis.
    If I fail to remember what arguments you presented, it was probably because I felt I dealt with them conclusively. I remember everything that is cogent and plausible, the rest is noise, and, to an efficient mind, discarded. I read a good deal more than I remember, because I am not going back over the ticker-tape later, and what is not already known, or novel AND valid, just doesn’t get incorporated. They are varieties of nonsense.
    If you live any appreciable time longer into the future, you will hear more about these theories, and eventually, they will coalesce. The God believers will simply move their target further back in time. God believers don’t have to believe anything. They will be stuck regarding whatever manure clod of pseudo-information currently makes them suspicious, like bumps in the night.

  1112. MarlinFive54 March 13, 2011 at 5:15 pm #

    SJMom51
    Naropa … that’s where Jack Kerouac Institute is.
    Original Beatniks, Ginsberg, Ferlinghetti, Burroughs, Corso et. al., used to meet up their each year for a big Beatnik Pow wow. And I think it had a Buddhist theme. All the old Beatniks are gone now but I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve kept that Shindig going with some new Beatniks.
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  1113. jackieblue2u March 13, 2011 at 5:27 pm #

    I am buying ‘thin’ clothes, lightweight on purpose, not only because I like it. I can wash in sink and dry on porch. Simple. Except for jeans, and then I dry on porch and fluff at the end.
    I like simple, and I dislike waste for wastes sake.
    I wash my underwear once a week whether they need it or not. hahahahaha. probably shouldn’t post this. but here I go…….

  1114. Nathan March 13, 2011 at 5:35 pm #

    Ever try any of the new fabrics that do not get wet?
    I have a Patagonia swim suit I surf in and I swear it does not get wet.

  1115. Vlad Krandz March 13, 2011 at 5:36 pm #

    You are begining to fall in love with me. Try and keep in Platonic. And no dogs either.

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  1116. Qshtik March 13, 2011 at 5:37 pm #

    He then puts pedal to the medal
    ============
    Metal

  1117. jackieblue2u March 13, 2011 at 5:39 pm #

    I like that, Thanks. Don’t worry.
    What a concept. Where I live one of the favorite sayings is “No Worries”.

  1118. San Jose Mom 51 March 13, 2011 at 5:41 pm #

    Naropa suits him. He’s non-materialistic. Even as a toddler, he wasn’t concerned about his baby sister playing with his toys. Has no desire to have a mortgage when he “grows up.” He’s always happy to go outside and watch a breeze thru the trees and listen to birds. We bought him an Ipod years ago and he’s never used it. (He didn’t ask for it.) Likes to listen to Pink Floyd and the classics like Beethoven. His high school GPA is 3.8. Naropa has no competitive sports, however we did see some Tibetans out playing frisbee on the lawn.
    Go figure?
    Jen
    I’m sure it’s much different than BYU. When I was there they had white glove dorm inspections to make sure you dusted the bed boards and the top of the bookshelve.

  1119. progressorconserve March 13, 2011 at 5:43 pm #

    you need to appreciate enzyme kinematics, especially in relation to the laws of thermodynamics. I believe I may have confused some by bringing up Entropic concepts. The basic purpose of that reference, by analogy, would be the simple correlation that to get water, flour, sugar and salt to mix together to form the batter, it has to be agitated (an input of energy) to achieve a complex mixture.
    -bustinj-
    Ok, bustin – this is starting to get so trivial that it’s starting to bore me, and maybe even you. I understand everything you are saying – my objection is that “impact” with the “foreign planEt” was not necessary for life on earth. If anything – this energetic collision would have reliquified the newly forming earth and SLOWED DOWN the appearance of life. (remember, also, that life may have seeded in from deep space)
    I don’t argue that the 23.5 degree tilt, the moon, most all the rest that you posit may have contributed to forming the “goldilocks conditions” that enabled human life to be created by evolution – but you never said that originally.
    And when I asked for clarification you said, “fuck you – do your own damn research – its 4th grade playground logic” blah, blah
    Which may be, but it’s outside mainstream science for origins of life on earth – which was the topic. Which was why I made the simple polite request for a web reference to “scholarly research” on your presented theory.
    ===========================
    Doesn’t change the debate on Atheism, as I said.
    Does expose you as cocksure and unable to hear voices other than yours and those of your professors – or wherever your militant atheism comes from.
    Which, IMO, drastically lessens your effectiveness at actually helping resolve the divide between religious folk and science over the next 50 years – which divide is causing many of today’s problems.
    I’ll try to give you the last word, now.

  1120. Vlad Krandz March 13, 2011 at 5:56 pm #

    You should be gracious – you won in the court of public opinion. And that’s the only one that matters, right Prog? People didn’t pay any attention when you said Whites have no rights, but paid attention when I condemned you for it. Amazing. And now they probably don’t remember what you said before but simply accept that you are teaching me about White Rights! You are at home in this world of bullshit far more than I. It’s valuable – it wins elections. Have you ever considered politics? You like kissing babies, female ass, etc. You are comfortable looking to see what people want and I’m sure you would have no difficulty running up to the front to be the leader of the band, complete with uniform and baton. This bullshit world of brass and tin is what you represent. Maybe you have everyone else in the world fooled, but not me. Henceforth, I shall be your mirror, your conscience – reflecting you back to yourself – and anyone else who enough interest or MEMORY to follow.

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  1121. Vlad Krandz March 13, 2011 at 6:05 pm #

    The Birchers bent over backwards not to implicate the Jews in their theories. No matter. The Jews hated them. JHK called them “Nazis” for example. Glen Beck is a modern version of them – even though they are still around too. The Jews want Beck off the air – they are averse to all conspiracy theories. Why? I’d say because they are massively involved in all Western Secret Societies not just their own exclusively Jewish Ones. Beck the nutty little professor would howl and roll around on the floor if anyone called him anti-semitic. No matter. His theories are too close to the Truth and they make the Jews and the Other Powers that Be, nervous.

  1122. jackieblue2u March 13, 2011 at 6:05 pm #

    The guy drinks a bottle of whisky, gets into a knife fight, jumps into the car, leads the cops on a 200 mile chase and and drives off a bridge.
    And this is AFTER he kills her for leaving him !!
    And maybe her children if she has any, of his.
    Anything and everything to make her suffer forever.
    BTW IMO Cash is not ‘so’ typical. disagree with you on that one.
    🙂

  1123. trippticket March 13, 2011 at 6:07 pm #

    “I think he’ll be able to spend a lot of time contemplating being poor.”
    I think we’ll all have less access to “money” in the future. Might as well spend some time thinking about what constitutes real wealth in a less perverse culture. Bravo to Junior.

  1124. MarlinFive54 March 13, 2011 at 6:10 pm #

    SJMom;
    He sounds like a good kid. You’re a lucky woman! I hope everything works out for him out there in Colorado>
    -Marlin
    CFNation Post 1
    New England Chapter

  1125. progressorconserve March 13, 2011 at 6:14 pm #

    Thanks, Vlad – I actually have considered politics. Since we moved to our little mountain county I’ve got a little bit of a “big fish in a small pond” syndrome working. But as some entertainer said recently on TV, “I’ve f**ked too many chicks and done too many drugs” to consider a career in politics beyond the level of local dogcatcher – if even that.
    “People didn’t pay any attention when you said Whites have no rights, but paid attention when I condemned you for it.”
    -vlad-
    Look, Vlad, I’ve never said – “WHITES HAVE NO RIGHTS.” I have never even come close to saying that. It is not anything I have ever even believed.
    I will say that this CFN website – which includes your posts – has made me aware of how fast demographics are shifting in the US. Which means I have moved the idea that “white people” will need a “watchdog group” from the vague distant future – into the present day.
    That is the discussion that I am trying to have with you – and anyone else on here.
    Now I’ll repeat – it is an understanding of peak oil and energy descent that makes this conversation necessary.
    And the “white watchdog group” must be nonviolent in their rhetoric like the early NAACP. And they must exhibit the same polite, intelligent advocacy as shown by the ADL.
    One more try, Vlad. You want to talk about these ideas, or you want to keep insulting me in hopes I’ll crack in anger, or go away?

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  1126. trippticket March 13, 2011 at 6:14 pm #

    Besides, Boulder is a kick-ass town. Smoked some of the best pot I’ve ever had in Boulder.

  1127. jackieblue2u March 13, 2011 at 6:17 pm #

    “Child abuse, in every sense of the word, is THE fundamental problem with society.”
    Yes it is.
    Also wanted to say something else what was it…
    oh yeah it’s called being dumbed down.
    That is what our schools do, dumb down the kids.
    I was so bored in school. So much rediculous in formation, and well you can see where it got me by reading my posts !
    Abuse in any form and especially child abuse is sickening.
    one of my heroes is Andrew Vachss. He is a child advocate, for free lawyer, for abused children, in NY. writes books. awesome guy. both him and his wife do same thing.
    google him if you want. sounds like you are interested in the subject. it’s the real deal, he’s intense. real life stuff.

  1128. Bustin J March 13, 2011 at 6:20 pm #

    Poc said, “Which may be, but it’s outside mainstream science for origins of life on earth – which was the topic. ”
    What is “mainstream science”? And how is one supposed to know? And why should anyone have to footnote and reference claims? The internet is available for keyword searches, is it not?
    The current leading edge of science, I’ll admit, is rapidly accelerating away from the average Joe’s ability to comprehend.
    ” my objection is that “impact” with the “foreign planEt” was not necessary for life on earth. If anything – this energetic collision would have reliquified the newly forming earth and SLOWED DOWN the appearance of life. (remember, also, that life may have seeded in from deep space)”
    Ahh, meat and potatoes. Here is my response, and argument for collision being necessary, or, aiding evolution.
    1. The (extremely large) input of raw energy.
    2. The creation of a cloud of debris.
    3. The establishment of binary centers of gravity (keeping those particles aloft).
    4. The continuing energetic input of that gravitational system on the aqueous system. (much like a fermentation tank is continually agitated).
    If may seem like I am simply affirming a conclusion that these large energetic events were necessary for “geologic” evolution. In reality I am presenting them as examples of events which seem to aid the abiotic theory of life’s origin.
    Current theory on likely loci for extraterrestrial life assumes an elliptical binary mass relationship like the Earth/Moon system may be advantageous to life’s emergence.
    It is an adjunt hypothesis to the more recent theory of the RNA evolution. Obviously we are talking about events separated by immense spans of time. But the correlation, I thought, should be clear. After all, the moon is there, it agitates, just as RNA self-catalyzes today, just as thermal vents contain novel organisms.
    “Does expose you as cocksure and unable to hear voices other than yours and those of your professors – or wherever your militant atheism comes from.
    “Which, IMO, drastically lessens your effectiveness at actually helping resolve the divide between religious folk and science over the next 50 years – which divide is causing many of today’s problems.”
    I don’t know how science can do any such thing to resolve the divide between itself and religious folk. It has so far offered up every one of its pearls to be shat upon, while its technologies greedily devoured and appropriated.
    I am no ambassador to the religious world- those people are dead in the head. What did jesus say, “I bring not a flower, but a sword”?
    There will never again be another Carl Sagan, and due to the glory of technology, there doesn’t have to be. Immortality, of a kind, has been achieved.

  1129. asoka March 13, 2011 at 6:27 pm #

    Vlad said: “…you will revert to your Whites have no rights paradigm…”
    =======
    Vlad, I’m pretty sure it is unconstitutional to deny rights to whites.
    I went back to read the constitution, skipping over the part about black voters being worth three fifths of white voters.
    Was there a later amendment to the constitution I missed which gives whites three fifths rights?
    Anyway, you sure do seem to relish imitating your nemesis with your “I am a white victim of descrimination” rants.”
    I have told you many times before that, as whites become a smaller and smaller population, you will be protected. Nobody gonna come to your house looking to lynch you to the nearest tree because you dared look a Black woman in the eye.

  1130. Nathan March 13, 2011 at 6:32 pm #

    Paonia Valley is famous for fruit but those in Crested Butte know that the “P” bud compares to Humboldt

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  1131. Nathan March 13, 2011 at 6:36 pm #

    Which means I have moved the idea that “white people” will need a “watchdog group” from the vague distant future – into the present day.
    No thanks I will be doing my own bidding, can’t stand to leave the important things to others.
    If you have a creeping fear about minorities it might be because you are about to become one, say about 2040 or so.

  1132. Nathan March 13, 2011 at 6:43 pm #

    Vlad do you see a persons race as the single greatest factor in determining their character?
    Ever see this quote before?
    I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

  1133. Pepper Spray March 13, 2011 at 7:00 pm #

    “After all, they were long ago transformed from citizens into consumers”.
    JHK, I hope you don’t mind if I borrow that one.

  1134. Vlad Krandz March 13, 2011 at 7:38 pm #

    Stick around – you can be my next project. You need it bad. If your Father sucks, is he still your Father or do you go out to Walmart and get another one? Do you reall believe that Blacks, Mestizos, Chinese, Arabs etc ask themselves questions like this? Wonder whether their race is real, valuable, or if they should just take each person as they come? You are so busying genuflecting and practicing Maoist self criticism that you never actually look at other races and how they behave. You’re too busy criticizing yourself and/or other Whites for the slightest trace of the slightest deviance from the doctrine and practice of Political Correctness – our version of Dialectical Materialism or Communism with a Human Face.

  1135. Vlad Krandz March 13, 2011 at 7:47 pm #

    What you said was that Amren had no right to meet – because Blacks and White suck up Liberals said so. This is tantamount to saying that Whites have no rights. If you have changed your mind in the last three weeks, fine and congratulations. Don’t muddy the waters by denying it; by saying Orwell’s “We’re at war with East Asia. We have always been at war with East Asia”.
    This alleged Change, if real, is largely due to my ministrations. You owe me a huge thank you and a huge apology for all the shit you put me through.
    Now onto the next insanity: polite intelligent advocacy as practiced by the ADL. The ADL specializes in Defamation of Whites for the any and all criticism of anything Jewish. It is an utterly ruthless Enemy of the White Race and the American Nation. If you ever utter a word in defence of Whites in public, you will find this out at your own cost.

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  1136. progressorconserve March 13, 2011 at 7:48 pm #

    “What is “mainstream science”? And how is one supposed to know? And why should anyone have to footnote and reference claims? The internet is available for keyword searches, is it not?”
    -bustin-
    I said I’d try to give you the last word, bustinj.
    Now I’m going about demonstrating that that is a borderline impossiblity for me.
    “mainstream science” should be taught in basic college level bio101, geo101, etc101. As far as I know, your “impact necessary for human life on earth theory,” is not being taught in those forums.
    And I’ll be danged if I can find it on the open internet, either. That’s why I keep bring it up.
    Anywho, it’s still a pretty cool addition to an excellent scientific theory of planetary origins and life origins.
    =============
    “I am no ambassador to the religious world”
    – bustin –
    Point noted, bj, and you’re doing a great job.
    “- those people are dead in the head.”
    -bustin-
    We could argue that that takes you away from your ambassadorship and into the realm of being an angry nemesis to the religious world – perhaps to the detriment of science, atheism, AND the 4 billion humans who practice religion on our tortured planet.
    But that brings the discussion full circle, doesn’t it.
    Now, maybe I can give you the last word, maybe?
    You are a enjoyable sparring partner, though!

  1137. Vlad Krandz March 13, 2011 at 8:02 pm #

    Fred Hoyle: the probability of the spontaneous generation of a single bacteria is “is about the same as the probability that a tornado sweeping through a junk yard could assemble a junkyard from the contents therein.
    Hoyle on intelligent design: “The likelihood of the formation of life from inanimate matter is one to a number with fourty naughts after it. It is enough to bury Darwin and the whole theory of evolution. There was no primeval soup, neither on this planet nor any other, and if the beginings of life were not random they must therefore been the product of purposeful intelligence.”
    But Hoyle as well as Crick did not affirm any Supernatural event. Rather they and a few other prominent scientists went on to endorse a controversial theory that Life was seeded here by Extraterrestrials either directly or by mechanical means. The theory is called Panspermia. Of course, it solves nothing – it just kicks the problem down the road. In Philosophy this is called regression. Scientifically, perhaps they are assuming that conditions elsewhere in the Cosmos are more favorable for the creation of life. But on what grounds do they make this assumption?

  1138. progressorconserve March 13, 2011 at 8:10 pm #

    goddamnit Vlad – I never said AmRen had no right to meet. I spent a long time explaining why the white and black business community of Charlotte was doing all they could to keep it from happening. They were successful. That was what, 6 weeks ago?
    And I’m telling you, emphatically, that those 8 whites and 4 blacks on that Charlotte City Council understand racism better than you ever will. It is in their bones, as native Southerners – as a part of most every decision they are called upon to make.
    =====================
    The ADL “…is an utterly ruthless Enemy of the White Race and the American Nation.”
    -vlad-
    Vlad, when I think of the ADL – I think of an organization simply dedicated assuring that the Jewish people or the Hebrew faith – not be defamed.
    That is what I can picture for an organization dedicated to being a “watchdog agency” for the “white race.”
    You are using negative redirection when you flip it around and try to accuse “der Jews” of some conspiracy – that just stirs up anger and muddies the water.
    ============
    Don’t make countercharges.
    Countercharges are counterproductive.
    Just polite, nonviolent, and intelligent advocacy for the “white people.”
    That is all that has any hope of gaining a position in the national discussion in the US.
    ================
    And for god’s sake, get your group to stop talking – and even thinking – about a “black nation” that stretches across Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. It only demonstrates how naive and split from reality your membership is.

  1139. Buck Stud March 13, 2011 at 8:12 pm #

    Boulder is an enigma. For all the posturing concerning the environment, the traffic in that town is absolutely horrendous. At the same time, they do have a rather efficient bus system–the “SKIP” I believe–that runs straight through the middle of town on a regular basis–every ten or fifteen minutes. And I’ll never forget the art exhibition I saw at the Boulder Public Library: “Ten Dildos On A String” or something like that. They were painted in multi-cultural splendor and at some point there was talk of charging a not so impressed library patron –El Dildo Bandito–with a hate crime for dissing the exhibition .
    BTW Tripp, love your blog photos. Your place has the look of practical Zen.

  1140. BeantownBill March 13, 2011 at 8:27 pm #

    A comment, Procon:
    “…resolve the divide between religious folk and science over the next 50 years – which divide is causing many of today’s problems.”
    IMO, there won’t be an end to the divide between science and religion. If anyone studies the history of science, they can see that science has been consistently moving further and further away from having to explain the universe by the existence of God, whereas religion has gradually, grudgingly kept changing little by little by having to acknowledge new phenomena that seems to have nothing to do with supernatural causes.

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  1141. San Jose Mom 51 March 13, 2011 at 9:13 pm #

    A city bus pass is included in the tuition price. We used public transportation exclusively when we visited. Much better than San Jose’s system. Everyone was polite and many thanked the bus driver when they got off the bus. My son certainly won’t be taking a car to college.
    But San Jose’s light rail system is the “hoodlum express.” I used to ride it when I had an office near the airport, so it was fine during commute hours. But on weekends and nights? Not safe in my opinion.
    Jen

  1142. BeantownBill March 13, 2011 at 9:37 pm #

    One more thing, Procon,
    Damn, but I’m pretty tired with arguments about Whites, Jews, Blacks, etc. It’s pretty boring and not relevant to the purpose of this website, plus it’s offensive to some – imagine if you’re black or Jewish and having to see this crap on this site. You’re never going to convert this person to your point of view. Is peak energy a black-Jewish conspiracy? If not, there are other websites in which you and he can hash out your religious and racial views. But here, they really aren’t relevant, even if he tries to tie them in to the main topic.
    It’s not just you, Procon, others here get involved. Why bother to prolong a bigoted discussion that can’t accomplish anything?

  1143. progressorconserve March 13, 2011 at 10:10 pm #

    Bill, I understand your points in your last post. The logical side of my brain, trained in the sciences – tells me to go ahead and posit agreement, to some high degree of certainty.
    But, Bill – the symbolic, lyrical side of my brain asks why, why give up on the beauty expressed in faith and religion? And also, who am I to find the hubris to turn my back and repudiate the Faith of my fathers and my family – a faith that goes back at least to the Druids on the islands surrounding Great Britain.
    And this website is dedicated to resource depletion and societal collapse. Should we renounce all religious faith in the waxing days of peak everything? Is that really part of a strategy for personal and species survival in an uncertainly approaching future?
    And then there is this:
    “whereas religion has gradually, grudgingly kept changing little by little by having to acknowledge new phenomena”
    -btb-
    In my area, the truth of Evolution doesn’t even achieve parity with the doctrine of Creation.
    I still have to coexist with all those people and their Judeochristian Faith. I have to do politics with them and work with them. If push ever comes to shove – I will rely on them, and they on me.
    No matter what, I suggest we always maintain the possibility of doubt – and of something yet unknown.
    Atheism is one possibility –
    But not the only possibility.

  1144. Paulus March 13, 2011 at 10:31 pm #

    I think both Sheens should be added to the presidents carved into Mt Rushmore.

  1145. progressorconserve March 13, 2011 at 10:46 pm #

    “there are other websites in which you and he can hash out your religious and racial views.”
    -btb-
    Bill, you’re right – I can go over to the AmRen website and try to post – and be shouted down as a GD liberal in seconds.
    I’m not trolling Vlad – I’m genuinely interested in how his mind works. Why has he apparently fallen into an obsession – that my entire young life prepared me for – from which I drew back?
    And since Vlad has been on CFN for months – it is evident that he is not going away. Is there any way that he can take the hard edges off his rhetoric – which otherwise causes this thread to devolve into racial confrontation – week after week.
    And do you, as a Jewish atheist – not think that the tactics of the ADL, are peaceful and honest enough that they could be used by any group seeking simple peace or justice?
    ==========
    Let me close with a parable. I had two large brush fires going on Thursday. One threatened a large area of woods, so I put it out with a hose – TWICE.
    The other fire was allowed to burn down naturally.
    Friday morning, the natural fire – given time and air – had naturally burned itself completely and harmlessly out.
    The other fire – forcefully hosed down twice – had formed a hard crust. Under the crust were live, dangerous coals – still threatening to all nearby.
    Some things can not be killed – merely suppressed.
    Only fresh air and time will let them die.

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  1146. progressorconserve March 13, 2011 at 11:13 pm #

    I’m done for the week.
    Vlad, Bill, anybody else – I’ll check for additional posts on this current thread on Monday.
    Bill – please remember the our host on this website posits racial strife and an important role for religion in his fiction and in TLE.
    We should deal with all the possibilities we face as a nation in a forum like this – while gas is cheap, food is cheap, and the electricity is always working.
    #1,142!!
    Last?
    I doubt it.

  1147. jackieblue2u March 13, 2011 at 11:43 pm #

    Same here is SC. I used to take the bus all the time. No problem.
    Times have changed. Gangs stabbings on the bus.
    And just too many really strange people.
    I like strange, but this is too strange.
    Certain routes are worse than others. Other than that I’d prefer the bus to driving.
    What gets me is that, aren’t you supposed to exit out the back of the bus, and enter on the front?
    And how come so many don’t do that. And the ones getting on in the front don’t wait for the ones getting off to get off? no manners. it’s all chaos. So few know what is going on around them.
    And the youngins’ don’t give their seats to elders.

  1148. jackieblue2u March 13, 2011 at 11:48 pm #

    I meant to post that to wagelaborer. But you’ll probably figured that out, at least the few who don’t scroll past me fast !

  1149. jackieblue2u March 13, 2011 at 11:50 pm #

    Yeah and where MY Mercedes ?

  1150. jackieblue2u March 13, 2011 at 11:57 pm #

    Hey I Love Farrah, well loved her.
    Good question about resting my brain by reading.
    You know I thought about that after I posted it, and it’s more like resting my Blue Eyes. Because of the glare on the screen, and / but it also does effect my brain, kinda like wires it. I google alot of things, and just too much info, overload, whereas with a book, it’s one story. more focused and easier.
    But the glare thing gets me.

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  1151. jackieblue2u March 14, 2011 at 12:03 am #

    Hey it’s COOL to love Trees. Especially for light skinned people. Love the outdoors, but the sun is too much on my skin. So the forest works for me.
    Besides that The Redwood Forest is a timeless ancient unbelievable beautiful place.
    Nothing NOTHING like it. It’s been around longer than all of us. Time stops there, when I am there I feel so good. okay will stop now. you get the picture.

  1152. rippedthunder March 14, 2011 at 2:04 am #

    LAST!! HAHA ,I don’t think so! I can never get the last word in. It has been a long and stressful week . I would especially like to apologize to Asoka, I would not wish him/her harm. Peace to all, the sap has run and I believe I am probably on my last boil, Adios RT.

  1153. Puzzler March 14, 2011 at 2:28 am #

    First!
    Oops, must that Daylight Savings time.

  1154. asoka March 14, 2011 at 2:55 am #

    RT said: “I would especially like to apologize to Asoka, I would not wish him/her harm.”
    =========
    Apology accepted.
    Peace.

  1155. jackieblue2u March 14, 2011 at 4:42 am #

    Nope never have. Can’t afford Patagonia unless I see it at Ross’. But it has to get wet, otherwise how could it be washed ?
    I used to swim in the ocean, but the older I got the colder it got !
    But never could stand the feel of wetsuits.
    Have an 85* pool here at the apt. complex so that’s really nice.

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  1156. Tim March 14, 2011 at 6:59 am #

    First!

  1157. asia March 21, 2011 at 2:16 pm #

    Marlin, you mentioned some things here weeks ago about Teddy K.
    read Brimelows book.To keep the democrats in power he said:
    the Immigrationa act will bring in 5000 people total.
    Now, 100 million later, well!
    And as for Abe wanting to unscramble the egg:
    Lincoln’s Ever Changing Views on Slavery
    He told him that blacks were shipped here without their consent and now Lincoln wanted to ship them away as if they had never even been there. …
    http://www.lib.niu.edu/1997/ihy970230.html

  1158. Movers September 23, 2012 at 4:03 am #

    Portable moving and storage containers allow you to enjoy the benefits of both the do-it-yourself move and full-service moving. These moving storage containers let you load your stuff and when you’re done, trucks will just plainly pick them up and move them