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Nobody Knows Anything

     That sound you hear out there is spaghetti hitting the wall. Everybody wonders: will it stick?  The European Union lobbed a wad of kartoffelkloesse at a Greek wall last week. The thud was impressive, but then the darn thing started sliding down the greasy wall to where a gang of CDS counterparty wolves waited, snapping and slavering for it. And then there was a crowd of curious Germans in the alley, wondering who stole their precious kartoffelkloesse and lobbed it at the Greek wall, anyway. Grumbles were heard but, as yet, no mob action against the flingers of the purloined kartoffelkloesse. 
     Here in the pitiful tweet-sphere that contains the atomized remnants of USA governance, there is no such clarity. We don’t know if that’s spaghetti hitting a wall or the shit hitting the fan. But due to the amazing obduracy of the parties involved, the next sound you hear may just be the wall itself tumbling down, perhaps even the famous wall with the famous street attached.
     All I know is that I dumped a largish bundle of 13-week US treasuries on Friday, a tad shy of the August 4 rollover and moved the hypothetical cash into less freaky hypothetical foreign sovereign instruments. I found a great bid for the T-bills, too. The whole transaction cost me a buck. I wondered: what were these people thinking who bought this crap at just the moment in history when everything is flying into walls and fans?
     Whatever other conclusions can be drawn from the great debt ceiling debate of 2011, the main one seems to be that this country can no longer govern itself. Our reverence for the constitution appears to be inflated along with everything else in the USA these days: gas prices, waistlines, cable TV bills. Even congresspersons themselves seem to hold it in low regard, since proposals for a “super-congress” were floated last week. A lot of sentient folk who follow national affairs actually wondered out loud, “what the fuck is that supposed to mean?”
     I took it to mean that our faith in the apparatus of governing has evaporated at the same rate as faith in our promises to pay back stuff-of-value denominated in certificates called dollars, our faith in which also melts into air. One thing for sure everybody knows: this is not a good time of year for financial shenanigans and chicanery. The rough beast called Reality comes back from its vacation in foul and turbulent spirits. Things shake loose when it roars.
     There is widespread and growing agreement that the two major political parties have reached the end of their useful lives. No other serious faction is waiting in the wings to replace them, except the one led by a claque of overfed radio clowns and know-nothing Jesus Jokers with an axe to grind against the wicked hosts of birth control. Seek no further for the answer as to why our political leaders are not serious: there is nothing they can do at this point. In order to conceal the reality of epochal economic contraction, they have run our money affairs off a cliff – and so the next sound you will hear may not be of things hitting walls and fans, but of a sickening crash, as the overloaded carriage of government (drawn by a scrawny coyote) spirals down into the Canyon of Lost Causes.
     We need a financial convulsion to sweep away the accumulated debris of poor choices, false hopes, squandered resources, frauds, swindles, and lies. Such an event can’t help but set off a true political convulsion. Let the banks eat their own tails and strangle to death. I hope somebody catches a photo of Lloyd Blankfein paddling a surfboard due south off Georgica Beach, destination: Fortaleza. I hope he brings a few Red Bulls with him for the trip, and perhaps a whiffle bat to hold off the sharks – if there are any left in overfished deep blue sea.
     I post a few seconds before the markets’ openings this ominous Monday. Gold is already riding high. The rest is largely up to the robots in Lower Manhattan and the zombies in Washington.

______________________________

    My books are available at all the usual places.


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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

909 Responses to “Nobody Knows Anything” Subscribe

  1. treuburger July 25, 2011 at 9:26 am #

    First!

  2. HeadingOut July 25, 2011 at 9:27 am #

    A good interview on the subject of “financial racketeers”: http://lewrockwell.com/wile/wile30.1.html

  3. Leibowitz Society July 25, 2011 at 9:28 am #

    The problem is that lots of people know things, but they know that it’s a hopeless situation, at best.
    Visit the Leibowitz Society at http://leibowitzsociety.blogspot.com/2011/07/tectonics.html for commentary and a plan of how to preserve knowledge for the coming Dark Age.

  4. Jack Waddington July 25, 2011 at 9:33 am #

    It seems the debt crisis is making none sense of money. Maybe this is the moment to abolich it for all time. The idea is not as perposperous as it might seem on first glance; it could solve so many problems. Sure it would take a little while to get used to, then slowy we’d realize the stupidity of living with this symbol.
    Jack

  5. mow July 25, 2011 at 9:33 am #

    blech

  6. Desertrat July 25, 2011 at 9:36 am #

    When I was a kid, I plowed behind a horse. (Yes, I really did. :-)) I got older and began watching politicians. Same view, really. And I can guarantee you that it never improves.
    “No other serious faction is waiting in the wings to replace them, except the one led by a claque of overfed radio clowns and know-nothing Jesus Jokers…”
    James, you may think they lead. They may think they lead. But the ideas of too much spending, too much intrusiveness, too much taxation: These ideas need no leadership. They are the fundamental ideas of what is called the Tea Party.

  7. radman July 25, 2011 at 9:36 am #

    Cue up Leonard Cohen’s “Everybody Knows” as background music and see Jesee’s recent tome….
    http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2011/07/memento-mori-remember-that-you-are-man.html

  8. Dostoyevsky July 25, 2011 at 9:37 am #

    JHK
    It’s going down the gurgler quicker than cheeze doodles down a blimps gullet.

  9. Warren Peace July 25, 2011 at 9:37 am #

    The Onion nails it:
    WASHINGTON—Members of the U.S. Congress reported Wednesday they were continuing to carefully debate the issue of whether or not they should allow the country to descend into a roiling economic meltdown of historically dire proportions. “It is a question that, I think, is worthy of serious consideration: Should we take steps to avoid a crippling, decades-long depression that would lead to disastrous consequences on a worldwide scale? Or should we not do that?” asked House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA), adding that arguments could be made for both sides, and that the debate over ensuring America’s financial solvency versus allowing the nation to default on its debt—which would torpedo stock markets, cause mortgage and interests rates to skyrocket, and decimate the value of the U.S. dollar—is “certainly a conversation worth having.” “Obviously, we don’t want to rush to consensus on whether it is or isn’t a good idea to save the American economy and all our respective livelihoods from certain peril until we’ve examined this thorny dilemma from every angle. And if we’re still discussing this matter on Aug. 2, well, then, so be it.” At press time, President Obama said he personally believed the country should not be economically ruined.

  10. Tangurena July 25, 2011 at 9:39 am #

    People don’t want to know anything. Just look at how quick folks wanted to blame AlQeda for the terrorist act in Norway. It turns out to be a right wing nut job, but somehow it is the fault of muslims.
    There is widespread and growing agreement that the two major political parties have reached the end of their useful lives.
    Duverger’s Law states that in political systems with a “first past the post” election system like ours, the only stable state is a 2 party system. The only way for a third party to get anywhere is for some upheaval where that third party displaces one of the 2 major parties, and the displaced party sinks into irrelevancy.
    Both the Democratic and Republican parties have become 2 sides of the same coin, and cheering/jeering for one is like those old beer commercials “taste great” vs “less filling” – an exercise in futility.
    We need a financial convulsion to sweep away the accumulated debris of poor choices, false hopes, squandered resources, frauds, swindles, and lies.
    Oh, I’m not sure that will ever happen. The audit of the Fed showed that they were willing to loan out $14 Trillion to keep the banksters in business. They’ll spend any amount of our money to prevent the rich from having to face the consequences of their actions. The phrase that comes to mind is “privatize profits and socialize losses.”

  11. James Howard Kunstler July 25, 2011 at 9:40 am #

    Replying to Jack Waddington:
    I don’t subscribe to your notion that mediums-of-exchange can be abolished. They are born and die and change over time, but they are necessary. Civilized people can behave more responsibly with them in some moments of history than others. This is a bad time for that, alas. But I must say, you have never made a single credible argument for this monomaniacal claim you make that money per se ought to be abolished. For my money, your brand of credulous idealism should be abolish3d.
    –JHK

  12. DeeJones July 25, 2011 at 9:40 am #

    And of course this begs the question: Will there be any oil to power the fans the proverbial poo is flying towards?
    The inhabitants of the USA are basically insane, and the craziest, most psychopathic ones are running the place – into the ground.
    I mean look around you, just who actually needs a F350 with dualies as a commute vehicle anyway? And yet you see just that. EVERYWHERE.
    Am glad we bailed out of that madhouse, as I have said before, you really can’t appreciate just how insane everything is there until you get out of it.
    As someone used to say: :Hoping for the best, but expecting the worst”.
    And hoping the we don’t get spattered with flying poo…..
    Dee J

  13. newworld July 25, 2011 at 9:43 am #

    “Largish bundle” and I thought you were a writer bouncing around the poverty line. Well congrats sir.
    Get a Canadian visa, the slobs in this country have a sense of entitlement that is metaphysical in nature and size. The slobs on the left have taken to a certain ethnicity’s victim metaphysics like a hog takes to corn, and the right thinks god talks to them, and ain’t nothing good going to come of this.

  14. John T Anderson July 25, 2011 at 9:44 am #

    Jim: Will there be room on Lloyd Blankfein’s southbound surfboard for his cappuccino machine?

  15. Smokyjoe July 25, 2011 at 9:45 am #

    Welllll, The Onion really got rich-boy Cantor down pat.
    And, sadly, Obama. Crack some skulls and lead, for God’s sake, Mr. President. John Boehner should take some freshmen into the cloak room and beat the snot out of them, letting them know that their Tea Party followers will not get a single thing voted if they do not compromise to prevent a default. This is what strong Speakers used to do, crack heads. This pussy cries in public.
    We have no leadership in either party.
    What a lousy time we’re in for. Well, China will enjoy the show, at least. I’m going out for coffee now and pretend I’m Greek.

  16. Jim from Watkins Glen July 25, 2011 at 9:46 am #

    Another in a series of excellent posts today, describing well what is to many, indescribable. Kunstler is an important member of the reading list, along with Chris Hedges, Bill McKibbon, Jim Hightower, Ralph Nader, Robert Reich, and many others. Kunstler has a journalist’s eye, a novelist’s voice, and a satirist’s edge—powerful stuff. He seems to be saying what I suspect, which is that things are well beyond anyone’s control, and we all merely stewards of a major reset, which will correct the imbalance of so few people controlling so much wealth.

  17. safeinhell July 25, 2011 at 9:48 am #

    I would have been first but I had to look up kartoffelkloesse. Bitch to type. I bet Jim used copy-and-paste.
    SuperCongress eh? I guess the heat drove our representatives into air-conditioned movie houses and they got a minuscule brain wave from “Captain America.”

  18. soak July 25, 2011 at 9:48 am #

    “We need a financial convulsion…”
    —————
    No, we need jobs and financial stability. We need Obama to invoke the 14th Amendment and raise the debt ceiling, with the challenge to meet whoever doesn’t like it in court.

  19. Al Klein July 25, 2011 at 9:56 am #

    I recall hearing that the writer of the Harry Potter books (I don’t know her name) was recently declared to be the first billion dollar author. That scenario seems aprpopriate given our current situation. To wit: the writer of children’s fantasy books is now worth thousands of millions of dollars! As an added fillip, the fantasy centers on magical powers. How timely!

  20. MikeR July 25, 2011 at 10:00 am #

    I think everyone is misjudging the situation. Everyone says that Congress should act like grownups and come to a compromise. I think that enough in Congress (Tea Party) believe that this is a make-or-break moment for our nation. Almost on the level of pre-Civil War. I think they are right. We have been floating in the pot of heating water for so long we don’t realize how red we’ve turned. A few more years of this fiscal insanity and we’ll all be boiled dead.
    Democracy works in strange ways. It has been usurped for years now as both parties have gotten their desires by letting the other party have theirs……to the almost finanical ruin of the country. I think the Tea Partiers get this. I think we could go to default and I’m not so sure it would be such a bad thing compared to more “compromise”.

  21. banfabian July 25, 2011 at 10:00 am #

    Soon Fabian will show up and ruin this discussion thread with insults and profanity.

  22. kulturcritic* July 25, 2011 at 10:01 am #

    “We need a financial convulsion to sweep away the accumulated debris of poor choices, false hopes, squandered resources, frauds, swindles, and lies. Such an event can’t help but set off a true political convulsion.”
    Right Jim, but it is still too early!!
    http://kulturcritic.wordpress.com/posts/philosophizing-with-a-hammer-smashing-the-idols/

  23. lbendet July 25, 2011 at 10:03 am #

    Good post, JHK,
    After we were taken to the cleaners in 2008, bailed out international banks and failed to secure our economy, I think for most people the illusion of globalism and free markets turned to vapor in front of our very eyes. Any illusions to the solidity of the system turned to quick silver!
    Obviously we are dealing with a rigged market system who’s only function is to make sure that a tiny coterie of people can never suffer any risks they take–and hey the money’s gotta come from somewhere-why not social security and medicare–you know those pesky entitlements we all pay directly for.
    Once that was exposed, there was no going back–but go back they did, since the whole sick system is stuck in it’s keytonic mode.–An economy based on making money on debt and not productive activity. A system that has recently been exposed as one where the rich and powerful corporations, no longer loyal to the nation-state make the laws usurping the power of our elected officials (ALEC), leading to the destruction of government controls and the formation of monopoly TBTFs.
    They’re destroying the EPA at this point, so pollute they can with abandon. Can’t spend money to clean up even if you’re making billions. And let’s not forget no taxation of the rich under any discussion.
    We can’t even get Elizabeth Warren in position to protect the consumers as the banksters threw a temper tantrum and where is Obama going to work after PODUS?
    As the meme that taxing the rich will mean less jobs, after 10 years of lowered taxes they have nothing to show for their claims, but that doesn’t seem to phase these guys. It must mean they have no hope for this country and therefore don’t want to put money down the rabbit hole.
    So now we’ll be sweeping Europe for it’s public assets and as you can already surmise these carpet-baggers will soon be at our doorstep.
    Dylan Ratigan, no liberal looked to history and suggested everyone agree to clean the slate of debts and restart, but the elite want to continue their global class war, so that’s not going to happen. These guys are going full steam ahead to get what they always wanted: All the world’s wealth and resources.
    Good luck to them-don’t think its going to work they way they imagine –hmm who will they owe favors to?

  24. ShabbaRanks July 25, 2011 at 10:08 am #

    Time for the O-man to get serious with the Republicans.. He should announce the following: 1. Since the US is officially out of money, there is no more money for the military. Accordingly US forces in Afghanistan will offer to surrender to the Taliban; 2. All US naval assets in the South China sea are to make port immediately in China and surrender their ships to the Chinese People’s Army. 3. Disband all military facilities in the US located in Republican districts. Let this be the Republican’s Ft. Sumter, 21st century style.

  25. empirestatebuilding July 25, 2011 at 10:09 am #

    There is no real incentive for the politicians to fix the economic system. It is working quite well for their puppet masters and in turn themselves.
    And when the dike finally bursts, these jokers and their benefactors will all be high and dry.
    It is the Little People who will be swallowing the water.
    Same old story… it’s good to be the king.
    Aimlow Joe was here
    http://www.aimlow.com

  26. budizwiser July 25, 2011 at 10:12 am #

    Dear Mr K –
    I take issue with the premise of your recent BLOG entry – “Nobody knows Anything.”
    You sir, like myself are most likely quite aware of many things – especially relating to the Clusterfuck this nation is dragging the entire world into.
    Perhaps – it would be better to write about why so many of our compatriots feel “too busy” to “know anything” -let alone to act on what they do know.
    I’ve reviewed some interesting material. I even downloaded the documents in original text.
    Many people do know what’s going on, just not what to do about it. http://www.unelected.org/audit-of-the-federal-reserve-reveals-16-trillion-in-secret-bailouts

  27. Hugh Culliton July 25, 2011 at 10:15 am #

    Sorry Radman, but I think Cohen was being far too optimistic. Anyone who might sucessfully address the coming crisis “are neither left nor right, but just staying home tonight, getting lost in that hopeless little screen.”

  28. WestCoast July 25, 2011 at 10:17 am #

    If the U.S. taxpayers can borrow a few trillion and pay the interest to the Fed to rescue the bankers and Wall Street, then the taxpayers can borrow a few trillion more to assure that the money they have put into social security and medicare is paid out.
    Bush Jr. said that “the deficit was just numbers on a piece of paper”…so why does boner and his cohort worry about it now?
    Google search of the year:
    “grow food”

  29. orbit7er July 25, 2011 at 10:23 am #

    Replying to Desertrat:
    “James, you may think they lead. They may think they lead. But the ideas of too much spending, too much intrusiveness, too much taxation: These ideas need no leadership. They are the fundamental ideas of what is called the Tea Party. ”
    The biggest expense of the Federal Government at
    about $1.2 Trillion in total, are all military spending for endless Wars, more nukes when we are supposedly phasing them out, Homeland Insecurity to insure that we are safe from people’s shoes and toothpaste, for 234 Pentagon Golf Courses around the World, along with $20 Billion for 1 year of
    air conditioning tents in Iraq and Afghanistan…
    Somehow the Wars escape all mention in the Corporate Media endless talk about “deficit spending”…
    And the Tea Partiers have been even more supportive of such military waste then their Republican brethren…

  30. GAbert July 25, 2011 at 10:24 am #

    It was the summer before I was to enter the eighth grade. We were living in Cairo where my father worked in the embassy. As we’d just moved to Cairo a few weeks prior I hadn’t met any kids my age t hang out with. So, instead, I hung around my father’s office which was located in some rented space off the embassy grounds. Periodically I would be tasked with going over the embassy to fetch the mail or an occasional hotdog from the snack shop. After just a few days, the marine guards got used to this precocious kid bounding up the steps like he owned the place.
    http://www.gwabert.com/

  31. noel bodie July 25, 2011 at 10:28 am #

    Regarding boehner and the Koch-baggers, he has no leverage because they don’t want anything, they represent the via negativa. Nihilism. How about the speaker forge and alliance with the dems. Get a majority and isolate the Koch-baggers to the sidelines?

  32. rugger July 25, 2011 at 10:30 am #

    The answer is SECESSION!!! Let the red states form the new nation of Dumbfuckistan.

  33. Dasviking July 25, 2011 at 10:37 am #

    there’s something you’d learn in the ensuing crisis if the ceiling was not raised…..something nobody wants you to learn…You’d find out government is the problem not the solution, and that we’d all be better off with a lot less of it….That’s why Treasury Secretary Geithner says it would be a “catastrophe” not to raise the debt ceiling. It’s why Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke says it would be “calamitous.” It’s why Komrade Obama says it would be “financial Armageddon.” They’re all trying to scare you………Everybody thinks people would starve without the big, strong government to feed them…… It’s not true…… We’d be a more productive, dynamic, and wealthy society………. You’d see this happen right before your eyes if a large portion of the government shut down permanently…….But nobody in government wants you to see that…………..

  34. Riddick's Ego July 25, 2011 at 10:39 am #

    If ian807 is at all correct in what was written above I strongly suggest GOLD.

  35. pedal pusher July 25, 2011 at 10:40 am #

    I wanted to shed some light on the history behind this month’s EYESORE OF THE MONTH. The Lamar Building in Augusta GA. dominated the Augusta skyline (such as it is) for decades. In the early seventies the First National Bank of Georgia erected a glass box a few blocks up the street that topped out at some dozen or so feet above the Lamar Building. In the mine-is-bigger-than-yours spirit of Dixie, the owners of Lamar added the ugly penis appendage pictured in EYESORE. It gave their structure sufficient altitude to reclaim the title of the tallest building in Augusta.
    This is a true story – I was there!

  36. JPB3 July 25, 2011 at 10:44 am #

    I would be curious to know which sovereign you purchased the debt of.
    Personally, I am convinced that strategy is unlikely to be rewarding, because I find convincing the argument that if the UST goes down, all of the current sovereigns are going to go down.
    If you really think the UST is going down, the best strategy is to buy physical gold, a few simple and reliable guns, and loads and loads of ammunition for the guns.
    But, to be clear, I have not done that. For better or worse, I actually think the USG may be one of the last sovereigns standing. As maddening as that may be.

  37. Riddick's Ego July 25, 2011 at 10:46 am #

    The average Amerikan today is clueless and happy about Sunday service yesterday where the sermon was about Grace and Giving (an interesting juxtaposition tot he Tea Partiers “screw you” mentality, praise the Lord).
    Meanwhile, energy assistance for AC is gone statewide about everywhere so people curl up and die. You best deal with this SHTF yourself or you too shall join their ranks, either in reality or at least financially. I pity all the small kids I see being hauled around by the clueless SAHMs (Stay at Home Moms) while daddy sweats in the convulsing labor market. But Jesus shall provide after all…provide a great foreclosure.
    I honestly believe that we are indeed screwed and that sooner or later (knowing Amerikans later) we will wise up but by then we will be screwed totally and any uprisings and protests will be pointless as we descend into a more third world status befitting our indebtedness.

  38. Newfie July 25, 2011 at 10:48 am #

    And the Walls came tumbling down… Amen.

  39. WestCoast July 25, 2011 at 10:56 am #

    Can anyone point to a site where the following mechanism is detailed on one page,
    or in a simple
    chart without arcane language and presupposition of financial terms?
    “How does the fed buy and sell bonds, make interest, make money for its owners and monetize the debt?”
    The Fed website lacks a little something obviously…
    There is plenty of verbiage out there, plenty of emotion, plenty of predictions, opinion etc.
    I just want a simple schematic, flow chart, whatever, to present to a Middle School class.
    Thanks

  40. Cavepainter July 25, 2011 at 11:01 am #

    Once again I’ll remind all you visitors to KF Nation what the ultimate aim is: a world as crowded as possible of people who, except for the ruling minority, are stuck at the lowest level of Maslow’s Hierarchy of needs. In other words, the world as one big refugee feeding center where all are easily manipulated for having no power over when the feeding troughs are filled. That way, a universal sense of desperation will quash concerns such as wilderness experience, wildlife habitat preservation, species diversity and environmental protection. Hence, the cause of “creating jobs” and “saving the economy” will justify opening up all the “locked up” resources in now protected public lands.
    Helps one understand why the drive for unrestricted immigration to the US, huh? You know that theme, right? Open space and wilderness of solitude, plenty of range for hunting and fishing or just communing with nature, all exchanged for an ever expanding menu of ethnic dishes – until, of course, there’s not enough water for washing the dirty dishes and everyone is surviving on an indistinguishable mush delivering (hopefully) minimum caloric requirement.

  41. TehBigPiktur July 25, 2011 at 11:09 am #

    A Canadian visa? Not a half-bad idea. Wonder if there’s room up there for one more engineer/jack of all trades looking for a home with some reasonably good soil around it. I’m going to look into it just to keep my options open. We are insane here.
    First belly laugh of the workweek: JHK – “I dumped a largish bundle of US treasuries on Friday…got a great bid for the T-bills, too. The whole transaction cost me a buck. I wondered: what were these people thinking who bought this crap at just the moment in history when everything is flying into walls and fans?”
    Got out of the Stock Market this morning. What a relief. I invested a large chunk of cash a couple of years ago in it: after the ’08 crash, it was hard not to make money since ‘most everything that wasn’t already bankrupt was going to come back. A bit.
    I’m still so pissed about the bank bailouts and who’se still in charge of that grift-machine I half hope we do default (watched ‘Inside Job’ this weekend, not a bad bit of documentary moviemaking) Let’s see what’s really TBTF. Obama is a terrible disappointment. Still at war (up to 3 now.) Still Guantanamo. Still no TBTF Bankers in prison. No change.
    Back to widget making. Cheers and see you next week. -Brian

  42. ccm989 July 25, 2011 at 11:10 am #

    The Super Congress is perhaps the worst idea in a sea of terrible ideas. Nobody voted for this and nobody wants it. Why should 6 of each political party set the law? Who appoints these 12? When the government starts appointing itself, it becomes too much like Wisconsin and we all saw how that went. Recall elections are going on now. What Obama needs to do is invoke the 14th Amendment and raise the debt ceiling. Get it done and over with. Since the Tea Party is fixing to impeach him no matter what, Obama might as well use the 14th and simultaneously raise the tax rate on the super rich and close the loopholes too. That will burn the Tea Party’s collective butt but save the country and put off plutocracy for another year or two.
    Right wing nut jobs will go even Crazier than murdering children at summer camp in Norway. Raising the debt ceiling will be their excuse for anarchy. Stay away from public places like baseball games, subways, malls and movie theaters because bombs kill indiscriminately. Hopefully the FBI has infiltrated every domestic hate group out there but there’s probably a few loners who are secretly and gleefully reading doomsday manifestos and planning the end of Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Blacks, liberals and gays everywhere. Because only White “Christians” should inhabit the Earth to serve at the whim of the super rich. Wonder if they’ll enjoy being white slaves?

  43. bossier22 July 25, 2011 at 11:13 am #

    THat makes it seem logical. Are they really that smart though?

  44. ozone July 25, 2011 at 11:18 am #

    “Dylan Ratigan, no liberal looked to history and suggested everyone agree to clean the slate of debts and restart, but the elite want to continue their global class war, so that’s not going to happen. These guys are going full steam ahead to get what they always wanted: All the world’s wealth and resources.
    Good luck to them-don’t think its going to work they way they imagine –hmm who will they owe favors to?” -LB
    It’s not going to work because people [being people] are pretty unpredictable when under duress. Will “they” (average ‘Murkins) allow themselves to be herded into farm/labor/death camps as the various “untermenchen” did under the baleful eye and bloody claw of the Nazi true-believers? That, to me, is the ultimate question, and will determine continuation [in some loose confederation or another] or extinction. Resistance or Death?
    The pain is inevitable; the reaction to it will tell the tale, and whether that tale has the chance to be told to a following generation.

  45. soak July 25, 2011 at 11:29 am #

    “Obama needs a way to address (pay for) debt. The 14th does not address that.”
    ——————-
    No, Congress appropriates funds to pay for debt. But if Congress is incapable, then Obama invokes the 14th Amendment and unilaterally raises the debt ceiling.
    See you in court if you think that unconstitutional.

  46. drpiper July 25, 2011 at 11:32 am #

    James.
    I’ve been thinking lately this may be our best solution. Other alternatives aren’t seen as possible until the old structures fall. As a nation we go through a form of chapter 11 and come out the other side with a lower standard of living, that is affordable. Very painful, but maybe less so than the current death of a 1000 cuts.
    I guess to sum up our problem, “we’ve run out of wall paper”….

  47. ozone July 25, 2011 at 11:34 am #

    “We need a financial convulsion to sweep away the accumulated debris of poor choices, false hopes, squandered resources, frauds, swindles, and lies. Such an event can’t help but set off a true political convulsion. Let the banks eat their own tails and strangle to death.” -JHK
    I absolutely agree. The only way “out” is “through”. We’ll not get any kind of re-set/different direction by altruistic posturing. It’s the terror of upheaval that gets the paradigm shifted. (Social “betterment” happens in the days of wine and roses through intellectuals’ musings, but true political re-thinking comes from privation and desperation.)

  48. army July 25, 2011 at 11:36 am #

    I think Obama should resign, after all the big problem is…..Republicans just don’t like blacks. As a matter of fact, they don’t like anyone but their elite white rich friends.
    From day one the Rebublicans just couldn’t stomach being lead by a black man. They will destroy the Country, and as a side show make a few bucks for their rich friends while they sink ole Step and Fetch It!
    The TEA Party guys who love to prove their manhood by carrying their NRA Cards, hats, and shootin’ irons complain about being taxed too much while they watched the likes of George Bush spend like a drunk on a Saturday night. They also can’t stand the fact that there’s a black man in office. Most of them are busy looking for Social Security Disability checks or trying to collect unemployment Compensation while they are working for cash. They pride themselves in sending anti-black Obama e-mails on a daily basis. They hate education and teachers, any authority figures, but are the first hogs at the trough when it comes to government hand outs.
    Everyone thought Archie Bunker was a bigot…….he can’t hold a candle to our latest crop of bible-thumping Republicans.
    The rest of the brainless twits in this Country spend hour after hour checking their cell phones, texting, and figuring out how to get a free fix.
    Thank God for the cell phone. It makes people look so fuckin’ important!
    The American people deserve to have tough times. We have turned into a lazy, worthless bunch of hogs.
    It’s easier to lie, cheat, and say…..there’s nothing we can do about it.

  49. Cash July 25, 2011 at 11:40 am #

    Canada is just the healthier horse in the financial glue factory. We have one mother of a real estate bubble up here. We did not learn one damn thing from the real estate collapse in the US. And our household balance sheets are in worse shape than yours in the US before the crash.
    We preen a lot about having come through the recession and financial crisis ok but that’s just us in superiority mode. Your govt deficits are worse than ours but ours are disastrous by any standard. Our banks managed to avoid going tits up but they too got govt assistance. Just wait till the real estate bubble pops.

  50. Steve M. July 25, 2011 at 11:44 am #

    Felix: “It’s not spaghetti, it’s lingiuni.”
    BANG!
    Oscar: “Now it’s garbage!”
    😀

  51. Patrick the Irishman July 25, 2011 at 11:44 am #

    There are many things wrong with USA but one of the most egregious in the electoral system. Is there ANY country in the world where 2 and only 2 parties have a lock on everything. This is a totally artificial situation and is maintained in numerous corrupt and deliberate ways. Somebody on TV was saying how people are sick of both parties and if they are not careful will both be turfed out at the next election. But that’s absurd and impossible because there is no one else there to be put in.
    Also I think the much vaunted ‘divided Government’ maybe worked well during a time of economic expansion and growth which was the case with some downtimes ever since the origins of the country. This works very badly or not at all during a time of ‘managing contraction’. The US is almost uniquly unsuited for this situation becuase of the ‘divided Goevernment’ credo. Who is “winning” now……….above all the most “undivided Government” i.e. China. But about any country even with a Parlimintary system is way more functional that litterally the Clusterfuck we have here. In that sense the blog is very aptly named. Again kudos to Mr Kunstler a very smart man

  52. Smokyjoe July 25, 2011 at 11:52 am #

    “We have turned into a lazy, worthless bunch of hogs.”
    I tell you, the only answer is to become Greek. In fact, let the cradle of Democracy annex the USA and give us a make-over.
    We’d still be worthless, but we’d be more interesting, and certainly skinnier bums once we switch over to the Greek diet. I’ll admit that saganaki is probably as fattening, ounce per ounce, as cheese doodles, but YUM. And don’t even try to get open flame near cheese doodles.
    If we are not going to pay taxes, let’s at least become colorful about it. I’m going to change my name to Achillios Papahartofylakakopoulos.
    Where the hell are my olives, my pepperoncini, and my Ouzo?

  53. soak July 25, 2011 at 11:56 am #

    When Congress is deadlocked and no budget is forthcoming to pay the debt, that threatens economic chaos and endangers the union.
    You’re not supposed to hold the validity of the public debt hostage to achieve political ends.
    President Obama is entirely within his 14th Amendment constitutional authority to act unilaterally to preserve the nation.

  54. anonymouse July 25, 2011 at 11:57 am #

    kuns – that is crap….we all know that people can live without ‘money’ just watch star trek next generation. they dont use money. everyone has everything they need….jesus just watch a little tv and you would see how the real world is….!

  55. anonymouse July 25, 2011 at 11:58 am #

    …half black. they couldnt stand being bossed by a half-black man.

  56. anonymouse July 25, 2011 at 11:59 am #

    i dont see anything wrong with the america electrical system. my lights still work…?

  57. soak July 25, 2011 at 12:07 pm #

    “This was one of the biggest routs in U.S. history.”
    —————-
    Thank goodness. Just in time to wake up the sleepy electorate (see 2011 NY26; see Wisconsin 2011) and energize it to reject the TeabaggingRepublicans in 2012. We owe a debt of gratitude to the Tea Party for Obama’s re-election in 2012.

  58. stroea July 25, 2011 at 12:17 pm #

    “Still too early” The Roman Empire lasted about 2000 years (give or take a little) so what’s too early? Maybe after next month’s Social Security check?

  59. metuselah July 25, 2011 at 12:17 pm #

    That’s pretty much my thinking as well.

  60. hmuller July 25, 2011 at 12:22 pm #

    “Super-Congress”?! Now there’s an oxymoron which merits a chortle. How about – performance impaired Congress, learning disabled Congress, integrity challenged Congress.

  61. Vlad Krandz July 25, 2011 at 12:35 pm #

    His ideas are Black. Blacks by and large think he’s doing a good job. The dissatisfied ones are mad because he hasn’t done enough. Blacks want a Communist Welfare State. Herman Cain, Clarence Thomas, etc are a small and hated minority.

  62. Cash July 25, 2011 at 12:36 pm #

    On the CNN website a headline that says 1 in 5 American men don’t work. As the article says 20% of men are collecting unemployment, are in prison, in the underground economy or living off the paycheques of wives and girlfriends.
    If you want mayhem make sure you have a large number of unemployed, pissed off men, especially young men, and guaranteed you will have mayhem. Many examples in history. Look at the current fun and games in the Arab world. 1920/30s Germany is another recent example.

  63. Dylan July 25, 2011 at 12:46 pm #

    The debt ceiling theatrics do not matter. I think some politicians are somewhat convinced “something” will happen if they don’t raise it but either way nothing will happen that isn’t already happening. The problems this country faces are systemic and too complicated and far gone to be figured out by the folks in Washington. You can see it in their faces, looking panicky and confused. It’s all politics at this point. Perhaps a battle over the debt ceiling will be the first domino to fall but if not it’s just a matter of time before the house of cards comes down. And that’s good, because after the financial collapse maybe regular people can come together and figure out how to exchange money for work and goods and services again. In the meantime, I suggest we all trade in our dollars for the currencies of the future: food, vodka, cigarettes, and ammunition.

  64. Vlad Krandz July 25, 2011 at 12:49 pm #

    When you have different races in the same Nation, you don’t need parties. Parties will compete to get the various Minority Blocs. Democrats always win because they are willing to give away the store. Republicans have proved themselves incapable of learning this. They could only compete by giving up all their principles and betraying their base. Republicans should have become the Party of Whites long ago. But to do that, they would have had to deal with the other taboo: Class. And no one wants to touch that. They would have had to get serious about illegal immigration – and there was just too much good money to be made and saved to do that. So they threw their own base under the bus.

  65. TehBigPiktur July 25, 2011 at 12:49 pm #

    Brilliant! We can replicate the Greek economy of yore right here right now here. If Climate Change happens the way it probably will, Ohio will become hot, dry, and sandy – *prime* olive/pistachio/wine grape territory! Hummus for everyone! I’ll take up the bazouki and earn a living singing mythical tales of F350 monster trucks and cheeze doodles.
    Brianiki Partyallthetimikos

  66. Vlad Krandz July 25, 2011 at 12:51 pm #

    Go to youtube: there are many clips of Blacks attacking Tea Party events. Get real clown.

  67. insufferable July 25, 2011 at 12:51 pm #

    Its only 12:30 pm and there are so many posts I can’t read them all. But I will give my take on the topic since this topic of a no leadership, not caring about its citizens, and incompetence, debauchary, and other horrible adjectives and verbs, is of utmost importance as the sinking USS Govt slides into the unknown abyss. I am of the opinion that we no longer have a real government. I feel as though there was a coup when Kennedy was killed and we are now the result of it is decades of shadow govt. rulership. Out ability to vote with confidence has long erroded. Our ability to maintain simple freedoms such as driving without a seat belt if we really want to, or smoking whenever, where ever without fear of reprisals among other things may seem small but it was a step in the direction of control in every aspect of our lives. Today they control what we eat, how we think (TV), what we will buy, how much we will pay for it, who we should fear, who we should hate, or love, and generally by following the “political correctness of the times” they will continue to denegrate those who step away from it and cherish and applaud those who follow and toe the line. I believe we are suffering under a fake presidental office, for decades. The parties seem unable to achieve simple goals that were possible at one time. We attack our own citizens in the quise of terrorism.(TSA, Patirot Act) I also believe our shadow govt. manufactured our 911 to sink deeper into the shadow government’s ability to confuse lie and control us in every way shape and form, starting wiht the Patriot Act, wars in the Middle East, and the TSA groping their way into our literal private parts and our figurative private lives. We have been herded into following the “crisis of the day” and recoil in fear and horror wondering “what will happen next” garbage. All in all we are the nation that subconsciously knows the truth about our predicament but decides to believe all the lies and just eat, drug, or drink ourselves into oblivion and compliance. The world is just a reflection of our own inablilty to take the bull by the horns and say: NO WE AREN’T GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE Just stop paying your taxes and see what happens next.

  68. Dylan July 25, 2011 at 12:58 pm #

    Oops, I forgot to provide a link to an excellent Kartoffelkloesse recipe. I have tried it and it was excellent:
    http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/kartoffel-kloesse-potato-dumplings/detail.aspx

  69. Riddick's Ego July 25, 2011 at 1:00 pm #

    Amen insufferable!
    But we collectively have no balls. Not really, despite the gym and pro sports. When will the “One” stand up, shout “I ain’t gonna take this shi* anymore” and proceed to figure out how to retake guvment perhaps by self immolation as in Tunisia.
    We are a nation of wussies one and all.

  70. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown July 25, 2011 at 1:06 pm #

    JHK, great column this week.
    You think peak oil is rough, wait until peak blood hits:
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0433362/

  71. messianicdruid July 25, 2011 at 1:14 pm #

    Amen! If you are doing things because of fear or greed, you are probably doing it for the wrong reasons.

  72. jgalt6 July 25, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    You are the reason for “no peace, no time, with libtards and leftist fruitcakes”. We do not dislike comrade Hussein because he is black, but because he is a marxist and closet raghead, which even someone with your limited intelligence must have noticed. The Purple People Eater would have been preferable to this Manchurian Candidate under the control of Georgie Boy Soros, the destroyer of nations. As a marxist lover yourself, you undoubtedly belong to the Demoncrat Party, formerly the Democratic Party when it was run by the likes of John F. Kennedy, who would be mortified by the American-hating reprobates who populate it now. Your messiah has increased the national debt more in his 18 months than every President before him, and all designed to destroy the U.S. and redistribute what wealth remains in the manner of his heroes, “Fats” Chavez and the Castros. You and your ilk are the very antithesis of partriots and eventually will pay the price when you make the fatal error of attempting to expand your leftist reign of terror.

  73. Neon Vincent July 25, 2011 at 1:40 pm #

    I see you’re finally taking the debt ceiling debate more seriously. How many weeks have I pointed out that you should?
    You shouldn’t wonder what the person who bought your T-Bills was thinking. Remember that the markets thrive off the greater fool theory, which states there’s always a greater fool than you out there who will buy your equities. It isn’t always true, which is why markets crash, but the supply of fools is very large. As for why he’s a fool, thank what you call “the consensus trance” which Joe Bagaent called “The Hologram,” although the latter is really the instrument of mass delusion and the former is the state it produces.
    As for the two parties becoming dysfunctional and the major visible faction being the crazies, you’ve been saying this for a while. You’re right, of course, but I’m surprised you didn’t call the visible faction “corn pone fascists.” That is who they are, after all.
    Finally, you became the subject of a teachable moment last week, when I showed my classes “The End of Suburbia” in which you have a starring role. Your comment about people in suburbia growing crops on what used to be their front lawn got a big laugh of recognition because of what Julie Bass of Oak Park, Michigan, has been doing right next door to the college. Score one for you.
    Another thing you mentioned in the movie was that you were worried about the end of the trade paperback industry. One of the important links in that economic sector is vanishing with the liquidation of Borders Books. You’ve just lost the outlet from where I bought “The Long Emergency” last year, so that’s starting to happen, too. How are your sales on Amazon?
    I’ve been blogging about both those topics, along with Detroit’s efforts to deal with the heat wave, car culture being so dominant that pedestrians are being prosecuted more severely than drunk drivers for the same accident, and all kinds of austerity and sustainability news at Crazy Eddie’s Motie News, where I’ve made a prediction and an observation. The prediction is that the coming decade will be all about the interplay between sustainability and austerity. The observation is that blogging about sustainability in Detroit means never running out of material.
    http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/

  74. cheesemoose July 25, 2011 at 1:43 pm #

    Well, at least there’s one reassuring constant in a fast-changing world – James Howard Kunstler is predicting immanent doom again.
    It’s enough to make you put you pour yourself another cup of joe as you settle in with the Business Section and peruse the collapse of Industrial Civilization at your leisure.
    The man has cried wolf so any times now, his weekly jeremiads have the soothing affect of church bells ringing.
    Thank you, Jim, for bringing stability and certainty to an unstable and uncertain world.
    As long as I get up on Monday mornings and see that you’re predicting The End Of Life As We Know It again, I’ll know everything’s alright.

  75. Newfie July 25, 2011 at 1:49 pm #

    “The Roman Empire lasted about 2000 years”
    Uh, not quite… It existed in two forms. It started as a Republic which lasted for about 500 years, until Julius Caesar seized power around 49 BC. It then became the Roman Empire which was ruled by a series of emperors. The Empire peaked 230 years after Caesar, around 180 AD. Shortly after peaking it all but collapsed during the Crisis of the Third Century (which lasted 50 years). Thereafter it managed to survive but steadily declined until barbarians deposed the last emperor in 476 AD.
    So… America has been a republic for 235 years. I personally would not be at all surprised to see some form of dictatorship emerge, perhaps soon. The American Republic now seems to be ungovernable. In any case, the USA probably peaked economically in the 1970s/1980s when the middle class standard of living went into a permanent decline. The onset of that decline coincides with the peaking and decline of US oil production. Various popping debt bubbles have eclipsed peak oil as a matter of great concern but the underlying cause of the global debt problems is probably peak oil as was predicted long ago by the cognoscenti.
    Have a Happy Decline and Fall, y’all!

  76. soak July 25, 2011 at 2:06 pm #

    “Obama, himself has said”
    —————
    On this point, Obama is showing he is playing chess. He only said THEY are NOT persuaded, leaving open the possibility of unilateral action which the 14th Amendment provides for him.
    It’s how politics is played in the real world, I guess. I usually only make short visits to reality.
    I never said Obama was the Messiah, so I can disagree with him.

  77. loveday July 25, 2011 at 2:08 pm #

    Hey JIm and all
    Au contraire Jim I think the politcos know exactly what they are doing. They are not serious about reducing debt they just want force the destruction of the working classes, just business as usual. Anyone serious about debt reduction would begin reducing in the dept of defense FIRST, not last. The military budget is obscene and clearly shows the priorities of the ruling elite, namely keeping all of their hard stolen loot.
    By the way has anyone seen the information on Andrea Rossi’s cold fusion unit? He is on track to begin producing Ecat cold fusion units for household energy production this fall. He estimates that the electricity produced will cost about 1 cent per kilowatt. I sure hope this technology proves to be as good as is promised. That would probably solve most of the the problems associated with peak oil and pollution. Of course he is having problems with the US patent office because they say there is no such thing as cold fusion. America will be left in the dust because the country just can’t allow the masses to prosper. This new energy source would also end the monetary crisis also by the way.
    Oh well back to watching the socalled debt debate. Good theater if you can stomach the absolute bullshit eminating from DC. Very odoriferous, so get out the hip waders and popcorn this will be good.

  78. jackieblue2u July 25, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    It’s true about if spaghetti sticks to the wall it is ‘done.’
    Buck Stud : last thread no I didn’t think it required a serious response. It was only half serious !
    I know what you mean tho.
    I was just having fun. more or less.

  79. metuselah July 25, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    Who care about her? Take a break for the inanities.
    Duncan Crary has a good podcast this week:
    KunstlerCast #165: Landscape Urbanism – Part 2

  80. Headless July 25, 2011 at 2:16 pm #

    “Nobody knows anything.”
    Fantastic title Jim! That thought occurs to me every time I attempt to make a decision about investment allocations: there are no objective factors to use in the decision-making process; I think what it comes down to, is that the market–any market–will move in whatever direction that will maximize the “take” for Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, and the rest of the criminal syndicate. That seems to be the only conceivable data point that would be useful, as the markets do as “They” please.
    Fuck ’em. In the end, pissed off Americans won’t be throwing rocks at Wall Street offices, they’ll be positioning themselves with their hunting rifles in “camouflaged” corners throughout New York and blowing the brains out of the skulls that once pillaged America; I’d bet everything I own that that is going to happen before this is over.

  81. ASPO Article 1037 July 25, 2011 at 2:17 pm #

    First-responders are constantly drilled in the concept: “an emergency exists when conditions are apparent making (fill in as appropriate) likely or even possible if said conditions or discrepancies are left unchecked & corrected”
    The POTUS is truly where the buck stops, and we are flirting with several ongoing situations most likely leading, jointly or severally, to Federal Executive Emergency Orders… Nixon Administration FEEO’s crafted but not issued include Motor Fuel Allocation (rationing) with nice stampa looking like miniature dollar bills complete with Washingtons portrait. Also from that batch of FEEO’s kept in the wings for such times as these:
    Federal control of any and all means of domestic transportation/distribution including Airlines, Railways, Trucking and support facilities and personnel associated with such transportation assets.
    Martial law means the Feds control the water works, the electric and agricultural distribution systems, etc. Keep the guns and vodka… however, the orderly conduct of foreign exchange (to maintain oil imports for one) means certain Federal call-up of all Gold & Silver coins and bullion. Price set at figures reflecting the approximate 30 to 1 ratio seen between Gold & Silver before 1965. (Gold $35 vs. Silver $1.09)
    Federal Executive Emergency Orders are real -many exist on the books, and SHALL BE enacted/enforced by this President or his successor as and if necessary. The boring and predictable name-calling JHK has to put up with seems inescapable… Easy to do behind a cloak of anonymity! Reality; The mechanism of FEEO will be used to preserve the Union of States as Lincoln did in the Civil War, Wilson did circa WWI, and Roosevelt in WWII.
    Financial imperatives will accelerate US departure from the Muslim outposts. US might secure a share in the minerals, but more likely involving a railway building partnership (China) than military presence. Overseas garrisons diminish, US Army/Guard Railway Operations & Maintenance Battalions reform in the States to expedite dormant rail branch line rebuild to assure smooth flow of victuals distribution and modest manufacturing renaissance as trucking shrinks account spiking diesel costs and allocation.
    OK- Back to the Linguini flinging…

  82. bubbleheadMarc July 25, 2011 at 2:27 pm #

    Saying that we don’t need money is on a rough equivalent level with ’50s era flying saucer “contactees” saying that “the space brothers don’t need money”. Perhaps this is actually true, who really knows? But then if they exist it is they who got to us first and not the other way around which would tend to indicate rather conclusively that they must be thousands of years more advanced than us, so I don’t think that we’re about to transcend the filthy lucre any time soon. Even if we had a revolution and ended up with a totalitarian collectivism the fact remains that the government would have to issue script of some sort in order to facilitate exchange of goods and services without resorting to the crudity of barter.
    It would be nice if we could reintroduce homesteading and protect housing from the vicissitudes of the economy, land speculation, and finance. But then many forms of homesteading were actually a reward for military service so it’s not as if those programs were entirely free.
    The fact remains that Jim is correct when he asserts that governance is in abeyance and we’re basically fucked. Fortunately I have my standby nihilism to fall back on: in the long run we’re all dead; once you’re dead not only do you no longer exist but it’s actually the same as if you’d never existed in the first place. So why worry? Nothing matters.

  83. Hamrage July 25, 2011 at 2:29 pm #

    “Let me assure you we understand the stakes. We know how important this is for us and how important it is for you,” Mrs Clinton told Hong Kong business leaders.
    Queen Kanute wants to stop the sea. For us? Perpetuate a system that; a) is destroying the planet b) keeps the rich wealthy. Yeah for us. For us the wonders of infinite growth, for us the charade of classical economics. For us the guiding lights of Thatcher and Milton Friedman. When the Chinese start bartering for Iranian oil instead of using dollars, what then Queen Kanute? They gonna be bothered? Nay Mrs Wilkes. And when every one person gets out of their car in the States, 20 Chinese people continue to get into one. And when the oxymoron of Zero Emission Vehicles don’t charge up to visit the coast (where you can see Russia) you ain’t gonna stop the sea Lady.

  84. progress,conserve July 25, 2011 at 2:31 pm #

    Nice weeks work, JHK. Thanks, as always!
    I keep thinking that TPTB in Congress will finally twist enough arms to get some kind of vote on the debt extension.
    And I remain amazed at how the 90% marginal federal tax rates under Eisenhower – a time of prosperity – don’t give the bozos-in-charge some cover for, at least, going back to the tax rates pre-BushII.
    Apparently the TeaPublicans learned nothing at all from the damage they were blamed for – and the seats they lost – back under the Contract On America and Newt Gingrich.
    And yeah – the two party system is IRREVOCABLY BUSTED by corporate influence. How would we go about getting rid of it, though. 535+/- Independents would be better than the nest of prostitutes that we now have representing the US at the Federal level.

  85. ront July 25, 2011 at 2:32 pm #

    As regards the notion of abolishing money as a medium of exchange, it could never be abolished while the society or humanity continues identifying with a sense of profound separateness and competitiveness with one another. While the consciousness of “yours and mine” pervades, while scarcity creates a things value rather than abundance, while identity is based more on endless wanting and contentment is a quaint relic for the naive, foolish idealists, money will never be abolished.
    But once we get fed up with being at odds with one another and acknowledge the real brotherhood of man, allowing it to assert and express itself, money will become a relic. In a real and loving family, a medium of exchange has no practical application, for self-interest is sacrificed for peace, harmony and whole-hearted generosity.

  86. soak July 25, 2011 at 2:33 pm #

    The president, moreover, can move quickly, but court cases take time.
    “At the point at which the economy is melting down, who cares what the Supreme Court is going to say?” Professor Balkin said.“It’s the president’s duty to save the Republic.”
    I would only emphasize that it is the President’s sworn CONSTITUTIONAL obligation. And he can use the 14th amendment to raise the debt ceiling and do so unilaterally. It is not like it is a daring move. It is a necessary move at this point in history, to save the union. The debt ceiling has already been raised dozens of times. One more for the gipper. I’m sure you know Ronald Reagan’s thoughts on the subject.

  87. metuselah July 25, 2011 at 2:33 pm #

    Geez, that was some seriously mangled typing. Ok, let’s try it again:
    Who cares about her? Take a break from the inanities.
    uhh, that’s better. 🙂

  88. Dasviking July 25, 2011 at 2:39 pm #

    “I remain amazed at how the 90% marginal federal tax rates under Eisenhower – a time of prosperity – don’t give the bozos-in-charge some cover for, at least, going back to the tax rates pre-BushII.”
    Abolish the progressive income tax……. replace it with a flat tax where everyone pays the same rate of income tax on every dollar earned………. Then let’s see how many of those Obama supporters feel about wanting to raise the income tax rate………

  89. MADMAX July 25, 2011 at 2:50 pm #

    stroea: a minor point, I guess, but I believe the Roman Empire lasted about 1000 years, not 2000. I doubt if we will last another 200 years, at the rate we are declining in every way.

  90. bossier22 July 25, 2011 at 2:58 pm #

    It also coincided with massive 3rd world immigration along with massive military and social spending. This led to the elite divorcing themselves from “American” society and becoming global citizens. Later, victory in the cold war and the booming 90’s led to complacency about looming problems. Many of the same problems were ignored durning the cold war also. the debt crisis, demographic change, climate change, and the end of cheap energy are converging at the same time. just as JHK predicts.

  91. MADMAX July 25, 2011 at 3:00 pm #

    Newfie: I believe that America’s social and economic decline in the 1970’s also coincided with the displacing of men in the workforce by women. Many people will dispute the importance or significance of this, I know, but I believe it was a major factor in the disruption of our economy and civic life.

  92. soak July 25, 2011 at 3:00 pm #

    In times of national emergency Presidents do act unilaterally with executive orders and do things like suspend habeas corpus or round up and put 120,000 citizens in concentration camps.
    The 14th amendment is the constitutional authorization for Obama to act regarding the debt ceiling, in absence of congressional action, to prevent default.

  93. Bustin J July 25, 2011 at 3:01 pm #

    dylan said, “And that’s good, because after the financial collapse maybe regular people can come together and figure out how to exchange money for work and goods and services again. In the meantime, I suggest we all trade in our dollars for the currencies of the future: food, vodka, cigarettes, and ammunition.”
    As… interesting as such a future would be- I suppose- with all the independent metal salvage yards and lead and copper smelters needing work for the ammo… not to mention the gunpowder producers.. and of course, the grain producers, who will I suppose trade grain for fertilizer. Of course they will need guns to protect their crops. That would mean hiring additional men to guard the crops. Which would of course inflate prices for their product as costs increase. They would require more ammo to protect the grain to sell to distillers who would create more vodka. Vodka would be required by hired guns and of course, for bribes and fees of the sort that would come after the government is gone. More cigarettes going into circulation means tobacco farmers have more demand, they’ll require more ammo and vodka.
    Wow, how perfectly suitable this economy is- for Dumbfuckistan. Who wants to live in a country like that? It is Serbia.
    Cavepainter said, “Helps one understand why the drive for unrestricted immigration to the US, huh? You know that theme, right? Open space and wilderness of solitude, plenty of range for hunting and fishing or just communing with nature, all exchanged for an ever expanding menu of ethnic dishes – until, of course, there’s not enough water for washing the dirty dishes and everyone is surviving on an indistinguishable mush delivering (hopefully) minimum caloric requirement.”
    You got it Cavepainter.
    We need politicians and advocates that aren’t uncomfortable handling ten foot poles, and airing out the untouchable political and social hot topics, with an eye for a survival strategy for the future, and not a 6 month plan.

  94. bossier22 July 25, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    It sounds too good to be true. One can hope.

  95. jackieblue2u July 25, 2011 at 3:03 pm #

    It is hard to read so many. I try to keep up on a day to day basis, when I can. Otherwise it is really too much.
    2/3 of responses come in the first 4 days, then tapers off, to few on the weekend usually I think.

  96. soak July 25, 2011 at 3:06 pm #

    We are nowhere near decline. Try living in the third world without running water or sewage facilities. We still live in the greatest country in the world and are fortunate to have an intelligent and thoughtful man leading us, instead of the idiot who got us into so many wars. Bush ran up the deficit turning the surplus from the balanced budget Clinton left him, into a good part of the debt we have today.

  97. progress,conserve July 25, 2011 at 3:07 pm #

    Let the record show that the first “Fucktard Torpedo,” of the week was fired by none other than the allegedly polite Soak.
    Fab seems to be making a little more sense without quite as much nasty vitriol. And the facts are more on Fab’s side as regards the 14th amendment. (sorry, ozone, I’ve gotta call ’em like I see ’em)
    “I think inherent in the concept of debt is an expectation of payment. Of course, you might not understand that if are a FUCKTARD. LOL!”
    – soak, to Fab, @ 1:11 –
    Perhaps we need a screenname called bansoak?

  98. soak July 25, 2011 at 3:09 pm #

    If you don’t believe the wording of the 14th amendment gives Obama authorization to act unilaterally, then take him to court for “misusing” the 14th amendment.
    Until you win your court case, the 14th amendment rules! Besides, Obama will be making history. You will be reacting. And while you are reacting, Obama will be making more history. How does it feel?

  99. soak July 25, 2011 at 3:13 pm #

    The conditional “if” means it does not apply to you, or anyone else, unless the name fits.
    It wasn’t a torpedo. It was a depth charge.

  100. bossier22 July 25, 2011 at 3:17 pm #

    If we go down China will not get away unscathed. Although Soak will probably disagree, I read a statistic this week about China: 600million live on less than $1000/yr, 400million live on $2000/yr And about 80million make over $20,000. So if the west goes down so does their markets. And to those making $2000 or less, it does not mean they will not be able to retire early. It means malnutrition or starvation along with instability in china.

  101. k-dog July 25, 2011 at 3:19 pm #

    The rough beast called Reality comes back from its vacation in foul and turbulent spirits.

    Then the silent suffering intensifies and kartoffelkloesse becomes too valuable to throw at any wall.
    IMHO

  102. Vlad Krandz July 25, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

    Not only that, but when Rowling announced that Dumbledore is gay, the crowd went wild. One is reminded of when Clinton announced that America would be majority minority by 2050. He said it was an experiment and “we don’t know whether it’s going to work out”. Now where exactly in the Constitution does it talk about using the People as Guinea Pigs?

  103. soak July 25, 2011 at 3:23 pm #

    If we’re lucky they’ll show up in a few months.
    ————
    Jeez, not you are insulting first responders, like RT. Government services are more efficient than you think.

  104. loveday July 25, 2011 at 3:29 pm #

    Bossier
    Yes it does sound too good to be true, but I’m surprised Jim isn’t talking about this. This new technology could be a game changer! Oh sorry Jim believes no new technology will save us. Well it is better than constantly moaning over the pickle the world has gotten into at this point. Just think, no more jacking up oil prices just in time for Christmas. HoHo, take that Exon, Chevron, and BP. I would love to be able to buy one of these units so I can disconnect from the grid.
    Rossi thinks it will also be possible to adapt the technology to vehicles, YAY! No more gas 3-4 dollars a gallon, no more smog for L.A. or the world. Come on you guys get excited, this is the best news I’ve heard in I don’t know how long!
    Anyway the company producing the units is in Greece and it’s name is Defkalion. Let’s hope this works and we can get them in the Americas.

  105. TrollControl July 25, 2011 at 3:30 pm #

    CFNers,
    Don’t reply to trolls directly (that only feeds their need for attention) Reply to me instead.

  106. progress,conserve July 25, 2011 at 3:33 pm #

    “You got it Cavepainter.
    We need politicians and advocates that aren’t uncomfortable handling ten foot poles, and airing out the untouchable political and social hot topics, with an eye for a survival strategy for the future, and not a 6 month plan.”
    -bustinj, to cavepainter, on reducing immigration-
    Nice posts, Bustin, you and CavePainter both.
    And thanks for the opening to something that is very important if humanity is to have much of a chance at a future.
    Send these people some money. They are top-rated by the BBB and the SPLC.
    http://www.numbersusa.com/content/

  107. soak July 25, 2011 at 3:35 pm #

    You are insulting first responders. They have a duty and the provide service. You are implying they might not show up if they don’t approve of the victim. Bad form. First responders don’t behave that way.

  108. asia July 25, 2011 at 3:42 pm #

    Boss,
    Where are you?
    re: China, Yes there are 100,000,00 HOMELESS
    in China, they work but wander to work places.
    Read this in LA Times.
    Ive read of farmers so poor there their children are nude.
    [I forget the names of the few books I have read on this dismal ‘Miracle’ called China].
    Google Images….most polluted cities in China.
    China is hell.

  109. soak July 25, 2011 at 3:43 pm #

    “Send these people some money. They are top-rated by the BBB and the SPLC.”
    From the SPLC website:

    John Tanton is the racist architect of the modern anti-immigrant movement. He created a network of organizations – the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) and NumbersUSA – that have profoundly shaped the immigration debate in the United States. A retired Michigan ophthalmologist, Tanton has white nationalist beliefs and has written that to maintain American culture, “a European-American majority” is required. As of 2010, Tanton served on FAIR’s board of directors.

    Doesn’t sound like “top rated” by SPLC to me. You should be ashamed of yourself P,C for misleading people to associate themselves with racist people like Tanton.

  110. asia July 25, 2011 at 3:46 pm #

    Solari.com
    C.A. Fitts….She worked high up in Govt.
    and talks of the elites ‘dis investing’ in USA.
    I remember 25 years ago when Cars started being made in Mexico.Then Industry shifted to China,
    near slave labor. then saipan [?] and
    Vietman , and US protectorates that really use salve labor.

  111. asia July 25, 2011 at 3:49 pm #

    How many [If you care to count]Posts today from the 2 of them?

  112. Loveandlight July 25, 2011 at 3:50 pm #

    Seek no further for the answer as to why our political leaders are not serious: there is nothing they can do at this point.
    Obviously so, but I still get the “straw man” treatment in a huge and major way when I try to point this out in the comment-sections of lefty blogs!

  113. soak July 25, 2011 at 3:52 pm #

    CONSEQUENCES OF DEFAULT YOUTUBE VIDEO RELEASED TODAY
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4VuICz4whc&feature=player_detailpage

  114. bproman July 25, 2011 at 3:52 pm #

    The times are a tad strange, imagine those Pirates at the top of the National League central.
    Who would of thunk it at the start of this ball season ? Plenty of games left to play, so we’ll see how things turn out. As for the rest of the world, forget about it.
    Remember, just because that rancid e coli processed hot dog is turning green doesn’t mean you have to buy it with more funny money.

  115. asia July 25, 2011 at 3:55 pm #

    Google ‘Murder rates in Black Males’
    Their unemployment may be 50% or higher.

  116. bossier22 July 25, 2011 at 4:06 pm #

    Thats what i thought. No one is immigrating there.

  117. bossier22 July 25, 2011 at 4:14 pm #

    Global citizen Bill Gates says that the money he donates is better used overseas.

  118. caseyf5 July 25, 2011 at 4:19 pm #

    Hello lbendet,
    Instead of PODUS I would choose POSTUS (Pieces Of Stinky Turds in the US). We are truly screwed until we reenact the French Revolution in a more modern context. We do not skip the excesses as it will guarantee success. This might save the globe for others but I feel that it will come too late.

  119. Ellecram July 25, 2011 at 4:34 pm #

    Agreed – anytime I see the name of the biggest troll on here I just scroll right down without a second glance – haven’t a clue what was written. It’s much better that way. Everyone should try it.

  120. trippticket July 25, 2011 at 4:50 pm #

    JHK: “I wondered: what were these people thinking who bought this crap at just the moment in history when everything is flying into walls and fans?”
    Was it really any different 13 weeks ago when you bought that same crap?

  121. george July 25, 2011 at 4:55 pm #

    I have friends and family members, hard-core Republicans [wouldn’t Redundicans be a better name?] to the bone, who believe that Obama and the Democrats [or should we call the Dumbocrats]have created the debt crisis for the express purpose of forcing the American economny into a deep, dark depression that will end with a Big Government takeover of the economy. I’m not kidding, these clowns listen to Fox News, Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh religiously and won’t listen to reason even if you hit them on the head with it. Conversly, I have friends and family members, hard-core Democrats to the bone, who believe the Republicans have “created” this debt out of thin air as a means of advancing their extremist agenda. They too don’t want to hear any facts that contradict their strongly held beliefs. How on earth are we supposed to construct a reality-based solution to our nation’s problems when no-one will listen to reason?

  122. jackieblue2u July 25, 2011 at 5:02 pm #

    I know exactly what you mean.
    I have friends on ‘both’ sides.
    maybe there is a whole other say of looking at it.
    I just really feel TSHTF already and we are feeling the fallout now.
    Yes they won’t listen to reason. Maybe it is that most of them ARE sociopaths, the politicians and lawmakers. And all they want to do is ‘win.’
    at any and all costs.
    Wish I had the answer.

  123. Vlad Krandz July 25, 2011 at 5:18 pm #

    It’s very simple: can you print or create money out of thin air – based on nothing? If you think you can, then you are a Democrat or an ordinary Republican. If you realize that such “money” is a fraud and will lose value and in the process, bankrupt the American People, then you are something better. Alot of Republicans don’t get it, but far more of them do than Democrats.
    As true to its name, it was said long ago that Democracies exist only until the people realize they can raid the treasury. In our case that means Welfare, Social Security, Illegal Immigrants, Endless aid to the 3rd world, Enless Wars, etc.
    When I say Republicans, I mean the ordinary voter. The politicians are by and large just as corrupt as the Democrats. There is no real difference between Neo-Conservatism and Neo-Liberalism. The Tea Party is a great hope but probably destined to be subsumed into the Republican Party. But they have already made a great contribution by refusing to let the Republicans back down.

  124. progress,conserve July 25, 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    Here’s the SPLC website where they give their highest blessing to NumbersUSA.
    “….written extensively on environmental and financial issues, NumbersUSA is the most reasoned of the anti-immigration groups, offering information on the relationship between immigration and the environment.”
    In fact, Beck makes a statement on his web site that NumbersUSA is not intended to bash immigrants or have racial overtones.”
    -The SPLC, concerning NumbersUSA-
    http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2001/spring/blood-on-the-border/anti-immigration-
    Notice that this information from the SPLC is dated 2001 – new information doesn’t affect SPLC viewpoints with apparent rapidity.
    The NumbersUSA link on the SPLC website does not work (coincidence??) – be sure to use this one, instead.
    http://www.numbersusa.com/
    And also notice that NumbersUSA is a top-rated nonprofit by the BBB, and well deserving of consideration for donations – if the future of the US, and/or the world – is of concern to you.
    ===============
    The Southern Poverty Law Center, in my personal opinion, has not been truly concerned with their original constituency (native born US blacks) for many, many years.
    Nor does the SPLC appear terribly concerned with Poverty or Law – as they continue to argue in favor of the immigrants who “take the jobs Americans won’t do,” thus Legally forcing poor native born blacks and poor native born whites further and further into Poverty.
    ============
    At some point, yammering away on the internet becomes insufficient. Put your money where your mouth is CFN – donate to NumbersUSA – or find a better immigration control organization and present it to the CFN readership for discussion.

  125. soak July 25, 2011 at 5:25 pm #

    “Why bother posting this?”
    —————
    Kind of obvious isn’t it? So people can visually see the CONSEQUENCES OF DEFAULT
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4VuICz4whc&feature=player_detailpage
    in a YouTube video.

  126. soak July 25, 2011 at 5:27 pm #

    At some point, yammering away on the internet becomes insufficient.
    ————-
    On that we can agree.
    I’m out of here for at least 30 minutes.

  127. neckflames July 25, 2011 at 6:01 pm #

    JH Kunstler – I’m having a hard time wrapping my brain around someone like you being invested in short term treasuries. If you had bought some gold 13 weeks ago you would have actually increased your wealth.
    Neckflames

  128. ian807 July 25, 2011 at 6:19 pm #

    “…it was said long ago that Democracies exist only until the corporation realize they can raid the treasury by purchasing politicians. In our case that means Goldman Sacks, Bank of America, Endless wars to the 3rd world to support the military industrial complex.”
    There. Fixed that for you.
    Welfare mooches are chump change. The real parasites wear suits and sit on interlocking boards of directors.

  129. soak July 25, 2011 at 6:50 pm #

    COLD FUSION TECHNO MIRACLE?
    Rossi said of the initial cost of electricity produced by his systems in terms of cents per kw-h : ”1 cent per kWh”.
    According to the U.S. Department of Energy, the average residential cost of electricity is 9.74 cents per kWh (2009 figures).
    One-tenth the cost is not “too cheap to meter” but it is a significant advance, especially if it makes electricity available to those who currently have no access to electricity.
    Currently 1.6 billion people around the globe have no electricity in their homes. Instead, most use wood, coal or even dung to heat and cook their homes — resulting in indoor air pollution that kills 1.6 million people a year.

  130. soak July 25, 2011 at 6:57 pm #

    Tonight at 9 p.m. EDT President Obama will address the nation on the stalemate in Washington over avoiding default and the best approach to cutting deficits. I hope he takes advantage of this opportunity to invoke the 14th amendment to avoid default on the debt.

  131. fairguy July 25, 2011 at 7:03 pm #

    I passed by another young woman standing at a corner with a sign “evicted from apartment, looking for work, anything helps”. Something cracked in me although I didn’t believe the work part of her sign. I remarked to my wife : “we all deserve to f***ing burn”. Disruption and misery of biblical proportions awaits a society that progressively caters to the elite at the expense of the majority.

  132. Dolan Williams July 25, 2011 at 7:17 pm #

    James, I have to agree with you concerning the use of money as a very viable means of exchange. I have in my possession a Roman Silver Denarius Circa 50 AD to 180 AD. I also own two Early English pennies from the period of Henry III Circa 1216 – 1217. I’m not a coin freak per se even though I have a few stashed away. I use these coins at times to try and prove a couple of points. One is that sound money has and always will prove a very reliable means of transacting business. The other point is that precious metals retain their value over centuries. Those 3 coins do the trick. Notice that I said ‘sound’ money since they all contain substantial amounts of silver in relation to their weights. The Roman coin was minted before the Caesars decided to create their own ‘stimulus’ plans by inserting trash metals into their coinage. Currently, our money is entirely fiat in nature with the only value being a promise on the part of the U.S. government that our currency is sound. What a joke!

  133. Miss Gayle July 25, 2011 at 7:24 pm #

    The arguments regarding the 14th amendment have been very interesting. Saying the constitution doesn’t grant the President specific power to enact policies regarding it is rather like saying Congress isn’t specifically granted power for the Dept of Education – it’s technically correct to say the Pres isn’t specifically empowered, but, the Supreme Court has a clear and unquestionable of granting the Fed Govt powers it simply does not “really” possess via the constitution. I’ll bet if he actually did it, they would back him. After all, they can hardly start being constitutional literalists now. It’s way too late for that.
    Interestingly, though the President IS the unquestioned commander in chief of the armed forces, is he not? So why not just sign an order shutting down each and every foreign base unless the host country pays all costs in full for it? Why not sign an order stopping all combat action and recalling all national guardsmen, with the regular army guys to follow immediately thereafter? Why has the regular army not been assigned to protect our own borders from illegals, drugs, etc? These things are WELL WITHIN his power, and he was elected primarily on his promise to stop the war and reign in the military industrial complex – yet he hasn’t.
    The fact is that it is giving free “security” to the rest of the world that has bankrupted the US, not social security or unemployment. Imperialism is killing the US, not fulfilling our biblical, ethical and moral obligations to the poor and sick. How about letting the Robber Barons hire their own thugs if they want “security” to force compliance with their economic sabotage of other nations. That would go a long way towards reducing our annual deficit.

  134. sevenmmm July 25, 2011 at 7:32 pm #

    What the fuck is going on?
    What The Fuck IS Going On??
    WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON???
    James knows.

  135. Solar Guy July 25, 2011 at 7:33 pm #

    Bravo JHK, excellent piece!
    Tripp- Remember reading that article you linked to, and I still want a “one of my hunting wasps will be with your shortly. Permaculture works.” T-Shirt. Also, congrats on your first Solar Module… May it be the first of many… they’re addicting. Just like Gardening. #HarvestTheSun
    Had a horrible Monday today…
    Going to take the EV-ScooterBike home and enjoy the ride…
    And put on my “All Gloom All Doom” Hat when I get back.
    Cheers Clusterfucker!
    PUSH ON. DO GOOD. KEEP SMILING

  136. Miss Gayle July 25, 2011 at 7:36 pm #

    Oops – that should have been “The Supreme Court has a clear and unquestionable habit of enacting policies that are granting the Fed…”

  137. Dolan Williams July 25, 2011 at 7:50 pm #

    Miss Gayle, the truth of the matter is that the United States will never abdicate its expansionist imperial designs. Name me one empire that has ever volunteered to minimize itself. There will be minimization but it will be thru default and/or military misadventures that result in catastrophic losses in both lives and property. I have been arguing for a long time that America will soon fragment along some types of racial and geographic lines and my wife gets awfully sick of hearing me talk about it. As a matter of fact, we are looking to retire and move to a location where we can remain relatively free from the ‘Golden Horde’ that will surely pour out from America’s soon-to-be bankrupted and violent cities.

  138. progress,conserve July 25, 2011 at 8:50 pm #

    “Go away, please- and leave the discussion to adults.” -TrollControl, to auntiesoake-
    Thanks, TC, I’ll try to do better with ignoring the trolls from now on.

  139. Free_Spirit July 25, 2011 at 8:50 pm #

    Would someone please hit the reset button and reboot the system please? It just can’t be any worse.

  140. loveday July 25, 2011 at 8:57 pm #

    Hey Soak
    So glad to see that people here are still encouraging hope. Sure we are in a bit of a pickle, but I plan to live through these ” interesting times” and I guess Jim and all these people just don’t want to look beyond the oncoming major problems. Problems are coming that’s for sure, people like Andrea Rossi are working towards the future and we have to continue also, for our kids, for ourselves, for our future. My grandma lived through the last great depression, she is a remarkable person, I plan to follow her example.
    Anrea Rossi appears, at least to me, to be putting forward some viable ideas that may possibly enable us to NOT enter into the new Dark Age that Jim has predicted.
    So all of you Clusterfuck Nation characters can continue to snipe at each other and have fun with your doomsday language. As for me I am looking to the future, despite Fukushima, despite the socalled “budget crisis”, despite the whole damn pickle we are in, I plan to do alright. I hope everyone can take encouragement and buck up. Because things won’t be easy, but then again when were they ever?
    Suck it up baby, cause it’s the American way.

  141. progress,conserve July 25, 2011 at 9:25 pm #

    “encouraging hope…” -loveday-
    Nothing wrong with hope, loveday. But false hope brings some things that are worse, following behind it – wasted effort, crushed dreams, and disappointment.
    If the Andrea Rossi cold fusion reactor actually worked as claimed – changing nickle into copper by adding protons to the nucleus – then physicists would be researching, rejoicing, and rewriting the laws of physics – as we speak!
    Those things are not happening.
    Rossi cold fusion, as another poster pointed out earlier, is too good to be true.
    “Good science is always rooted in good data, but the most entertaining science is the stuff that transcends the need for data by rooting itself fantastical claims and a rejection of the idea that data is even necessary.” -popsci-
    http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2011-01/italian-scientists-claim-dubious-cold-fusion-breakthrough

  142. asia July 25, 2011 at 9:50 pm #

    NEWS FROM MEXIFORNIA:
    California “Dream Act” approved for illegal immigrants? – dubbed the California Dream Act, passed the state Legislature earlier this month and aims at helping illegal immigrants who earned a diploma after…………………………

  143. asia July 25, 2011 at 9:55 pm #

    Yes when his wife saw the misery in Africa she
    decided that helping them would be part of her lifes work…
    Gates in turn does what he can to hire foreigners.
    However this ‘make the world a better place’thing has been going on a long time…Foreign Aid, the Peace Corps.

  144. cheekychews July 25, 2011 at 10:02 pm #

    (from the outside looking in)
    To the good people of the USA … and the dickheads,
    What the fuck are you doing?
    How can it be that the GOP & Tea Party are in control and torpedoing Obama’a attempts to deal with the shit-heap of an economy created by the GOP????
    They’re morons!
    Since the end of WW2 the national debt came down under both Democrat and Republican presidents … until Reagan. http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af227/cheekychews/USGrossFederalDebtsince1945.jpg
    Since 1981 it has burgeoned under Reagan, Bush 1 and Bush 2 (Republicans). Clinton reversed the trend and Obama inherited a steaming pile of poo from Bush 2 which included war spending, tax cuts for the wealthy and the GFC (fed by Bush 2 and the lack of regulation over the uber-capitalists in the FIRE sector (Finance, Insurance & Real Estate)).
    So I blame Reagan, Bush 1, Bush 2 … and Clinton’s dick (if he had kept it in his pants we might not have had Bush 2).
    The War on Terror has cost $1.2 trillion directly and will cost over $3 trillion going forward. http://costsofwar.org/article/economic-cost-summary
    The wealth gap in the US is obscene. The top 2% of income earners neither need nor deserve a continuation of the Bush 2 tax cuts. The argument that terminating it will stifle the magical job creation powers of these fat-cats is self-serving crap.
    And while you’re at it fix up the corporate tax system ‘cos either your tax system is fucked or US corporations are ratshit at making profits. http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af227/cheekychews/USATaxesIndividualCorporatefrom1940.jpg
    All administrations and congresses since the late ‘70s have consistently failed to address the US energy problem … imports of oil have added trillions to the trade deficit and it is just getting worse. http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/historical/petr.pdf
    Wake up! http://tinyurl.com/6yp6hv
    What I see from across the Pacific Pond is a nation driven by distorted notions of ‘freedom’, ‘free markets’, ‘god bless the United States’ parochialism and FUD from the bible-bashing conservatives.
    A pox on Republicans and Tea Party numb-nuts!
    Best of luck to all the others who are trying to prevent the Good Ship USA from sinking.
    PS thanks for stuffing Kyoto over the last 20 years

  145. asia July 25, 2011 at 10:06 pm #

    santa Monica College has requirements for graduating that include courses in
    GLOBAL CITIZENSHIP [SMC.EDU]…..
    It also has 1000+ wetbacks, mostly from Mexico,
    who get $/help from the Latino Center,
    They have Latino Youth Conferences, etc…
    Can you see the Soviet Monikans asking for
    White Youth Conferences?
    And there are few Black students.
    Under 100 at UCLA in the freshman class of thousands.

  146. asia July 25, 2011 at 10:11 pm #

    O yes….the US keeps the seas safe so China Inc can ship its goods worldwide.
    And China does no charity work or foreign aid.
    Im told in the Russian language there is no word ‘charity’ [I read that somewhere]
    And Russians that move here cant believe
    what they can get by asking / stealing.
    For instance theres a whole building owned by the govt thats been taken over by the russian mafia..
    3405 [?] Via Dolce, Marina del Rey.

  147. asia July 25, 2011 at 10:13 pm #

    ‘ Clinton reversed the trend ‘
    According to [Soros x] Jim Rogers ole Clinton
    ‘cooked the books’.

  148. rippedthunder July 25, 2011 at 10:14 pm #

    Hey Prog, the discourse goes sour real fast around here lately. I like to see all the new posters and lurkers comeout but they are drowned out by the likes of *****, and ******, and all the other F””””tards! By thursday there won’tbe buta half doz. left. We lost some of the best because of the noise. This bar has gone to shit!

  149. rippedthunder July 25, 2011 at 10:19 pm #

    Spinnin’ this one for Jackie and all the ladies in the CFN, from the CFN DJ, RT. enjoy
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRqRAZuSQ9M

  150. bossier22 July 25, 2011 at 10:20 pm #

    I don’t think Henry Ford would have felt the same as Gates does now during the great depression. He was just as interested in getting richer, but the upper class had more love of country than today. Since the mid 60’s the country has been slowly unraveling from the top to the bottom of the social ladder. The mega rich have followed where the social experimenters have led them. To them they are doing what is right.

  151. cheekychews July 25, 2011 at 10:40 pm #

    “According to [Soros x] Jim Rogers ole Clinton
    ‘cooked the books’.”
    Good grief!
    With Republicans rabidly chasing down Clinton while in office and then 8 years in government this claim has been verified where?
    Clinton must be a “Masterchef” … not a cook.

  152. rippedthunder July 25, 2011 at 10:44 pm #

    Hi Prog, I check in but the political and religious stuff is getting to be too much. Shit, Tripp is gone, Wage, maybe Marlin, LLB,. I know they still check JHK on Monday. I know your out there! I still read the blog but the noise is excessive.

  153. soak July 25, 2011 at 10:45 pm #

    P,C you are correct about the data. All good science requires three things: 1) instrumental injunction (you have to be willing to do the experiment; 2) data collection; and 3) communal confirmation (to rule out fraud or hallucination)
    The link you gave with “Dubious” in the title was from an article dated Jan. 21, 2011. After that Andrea Rossi conducted his experiment in the presence of Swedish physicists who verified the validity of the data. This was done in April 2011. If you are a scientist, you are willing to look at the later data that validates cold fusion.
    http://PESN.COM/2011/04/07/9501805_ROSSI_COLD_FUSION_VALIDATED_BY_SWEDISH_SKEPTICS_SOCIETY/

  154. Smokyjoe July 25, 2011 at 10:52 pm #

    Dear Brianiki Partyallthetimikos:
    ???????? ???! (you rock!) my suddenly Greek friend.
    After crossing the wine-dark waters of the Ohio River after climate change, over the fire where we roast a meal of stolen suckling goat bandit-style, and as we contemplate raids upon the ruins of Columbus, we will spin tales of the Golden Fleece of the American public by Polyphemus the banker-demon.
    The young warriors will not believe us, let alone our tales of the F-350 and the Cheese Doodles, those graven chariots and Ambrosia of the Ancient Ones.
    Get your Greek on!
    ????? ???????? (I am a slacker),
    Achillios Papahartofylakakopoulos.

  155. progress,conserve July 25, 2011 at 11:08 pm #

    “(from the outside looking in)
    To the good people of the USA … and the dickheads,
    What the fuck are you doing?”
    -cheekychews-
    Hey CheekyC – nice post. Let me tell you, the US looks just as nucking futts from the inside as it does from the outside. Where are you, btw?
    I still think this immediate debt ceiling problem will be fixed at the last minute – but that will only mask larger social and economic problems going forward.
    But, sometimes I think to myself, “screw it – go ahead TeaBaggers and kick over the ant hill for good. Better to deal with the problems now – rather than keep kicking the can for our children to finally deal with….”
    I did find the Moyers/Andrew Bacevich interview. We’ve got smart guys here in the States. They just can’t get into leadership and make themselves heard. I’m afraid that as a Nation, we’re completely going off the rails.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlD6Yz18K10
    Some of us are open to suggestions, still.

  156. Cavepainter July 25, 2011 at 11:15 pm #

    You know how it goes; anyone who argues against America going the way of Somalia will be equated with Anders Behring Breivik, the Norwegian mass murderer.
    Yes, that’s right; if you dare speak out against our nation allowing its population to grow to such point that no margin remains for absorbing disasters (natural or manmade) will be dubbed racist and xenophobe.
    Oh my, don’t dare suggest that regard for lots of flex room, or wilderness experience, or keeping range enough for meat to remain on the diet counts as “cultural value”.

  157. progress,conserve July 25, 2011 at 11:24 pm #

    “the noise is excessive” -rippedthunder-
    Yeah, again – RT, you’re 100% right. And boy, will I miss you, Wage, Tripp, Marlin, BHMarc, and various others. I sure don’t have to always agree with people to appreciate their viewpoints and to appreciate them as unique personalities.
    ==============
    But now, I’ve got soak going on, and on, and on – concerning this latest nickle to copper cold fusion thing. I’ve looked at the data – there’s nothing there to argue for cold fusion in a logical way. It’s pseudo science, substituting hope for data, in my opinion.
    And I consider it a waste of good JHK bandwidth to discuss Rossi cold fusion any further. Finally, soak needs to understand that words – even agreeable and beautiful words – do not change facts and they cannot change laws of physics, chemistry, and biology.
    So go ahead and call me an anti-Rossi racist, soak. That’s been your favorite insult, lately.
    TrollControl, anyone?

  158. bossier22 July 25, 2011 at 11:24 pm #

    It is strange to see a country commit suicide. Brown just signed the California dream act. California was the jewel of the nation but now it is a basket case. I guess Brown figures he might as well go for the votes the state is down the tubes anyway.

  159. Neon Vincent July 25, 2011 at 11:46 pm #

    Congratulations, you finally did something useful around here.

  160. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 12:03 am #

    Black vote their color. Everyone knows that – unless they have their eyes closed. Mexicans do too. Don’t know about those White, Blued Eyed Indians who smoke alot of cigarettes – self righteously!
    I enjoy different cultures. Went to one of the largest Pow Wows in the Counry over the weekend in Post Falls hosted by the Coeur d’Alenes. Great. Some interesting blood lines – still alot of pure bloods around. Some quite handsome or beautiful. Do I want them to leave America or die out? No. Some White Nationalists might – but not this one.
    They are very proud of their history and cultures. I want the same for mine. Did you know that the Germans are utterly obsessed with Indians? The reason why is obvious: the yearning for White Tribalism is beyond belief. Yet we accept counterfeits like tatoos and being a sports fan.
    Heard one of the White Indians on the bus the other day talking about his Grandfather: He wasn’t nuthin. He had no Nations in him – just White.
    I don’t think this kid hated his Grandfather – this is just the way he thought: Whites are nothing. This is exactly how you and every other Liberal thinks.

  161. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 12:12 am #

    Portia Rossi saw a UFO when she broke up with Ellen Degeneres. As the chant about Mothman put it: Mothman, Mothman, what do you seek?
    The End of the World or an Omen of Peace.
    Any new sightings of the Georgia Devil?

  162. soak July 26, 2011 at 12:13 am #

    P,C your pessimism, your cynicism, and your faux scientific attitude are uncalled for. You ignore the research into cold fusion at your peril. The Chinese are not ignoring it.

    Chinese leaders believe the country that discovers a new source of energy will hold the key to the 21st century. Cold fusion could be that key, say the Chinese researchers. Described by some as “the holy grail of physics”, the theory of cold fusion proposes that nuclear reactions could take place at low, safe temperatures.
    Early experiments failed to convince the mainstream scientific community and most research in the West was dropped in the 1990s. However, a 2009 report by America’s Defense Intelligence Agency said that new techniques were leading to greater worldwide acceptance that more investigation was needed. “This … could revolutionise energy production and storage, since nuclear reactions release millions of times more energy per unit mass than any known chemical fuel.”

  163. TrollControl July 26, 2011 at 12:14 am #

    You been drinkin’ some “fire juice,” Vladdy? Your racist rants don’t make any sense to sober people. You’re racism has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, OK? Sober up and CONTRIBUTE tomorrow morning-late.

  164. soak July 26, 2011 at 12:15 am #

    CONTINUED RESPONSE TO P,C THE SKEPTIC

    As China has become the world’s biggest economy after America, it has also become the top energy consumer and the greatest emitter of carbon dioxide. So it is searching for every means to reduce its dependence on coal and oil to fuel an economy that is set to grow by 9.5% this year. Coal still accounts for more than 70% of Chinese electricity generation, with hydropower coming second at just over 20%. Yet giant hydroelectric projects such as the Three Gorges Dam have proved troublesome, while wind and solar power meet just a fraction of China’s demand for electricity.

  165. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 12:16 am #

    He was under pressure to start giving since he didn’t for many years. It’s expected of people like him by his peers. His wife helped with all of that. Imagine if he gave to a White Cause – he would have been branded a pariah. Any charity is good, but Africa is the best. Any charity except White ones that is.

  166. TrollControl July 26, 2011 at 12:17 am #

    CORRECTION: “Your racism”

  167. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 12:20 am #

    Yes – about 500 BC to 500 AD. Some try to carry it longer by using “The Holy Roman Empire” of the Hapsburgs or Byzantium, the Eastern Empire. But these were really different civilizations that sprang from Ancient Rome. And truthfully, the Holy Roman was more of an idea for the most part, most of the time.

  168. soak July 26, 2011 at 12:21 am #

    P,C you ask for ideas, for solutions, and when someone comes up with a possible solution, you pooh pooh it. Shame.

    Scientists believed that deuterium, an isotope of hydrogen, could be extracted from seawater and that a huge amount of energy could be obtained from the fusion of deuterium and tritium under extreme temperatures. “After nuclear fusion, the deuterium extracted from one litre of seawater will produce energy equivalent to 300 litres of gasoline,” the agency said. Supporters of Xu’s research put it more simply: water can be turned into oil. Scientists will be sceptical until low-energy nuclear reactions are observed and verified. Nonetheless, China is determined not to be left behind if a discovery is to be made.

  169. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 12:22 am #

    Dude, you’re just another libtroll.

  170. soak July 26, 2011 at 12:23 am #

    In February, a minor flurry greeted the claim by two Italian scientists, Andrea Rossi and Sergio Focardi, to have conducted successful cold fusion experiments at the University of Bologna. That may have spurred on official approval for the Chinese theories to be aired at the UN 4th World Economic and Environmental Conference in Qingdao from June 18 to 21. Xu has been invited to make a keynote speech with the working title: “Discovery of cold fusion and cold fission, which will cause a revolution in environmental protection and new energy”.

  171. jerry July 26, 2011 at 12:24 am #

    The clown car is full. The clowns are now passing methane gas from their bodies whereby the clowns will soon pass out and few at the bottom will die. The rest will pile out and gasp for air, but the crowd of on-lookers will come down from the bleachers and crush them because they failed to perform as they were supposed to. The crowd paid their money but the show did not go on as it was planned.
    http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

  172. soak July 26, 2011 at 12:25 am #

    END OF TRANSMISSION TO P,C THE COWARD WHO IGNORES ME

    China’s president, Hu Jintao, who trained as an engineer and worked in the Chinese power industry on his way to the top, is said to have taken a keen interest in the research. The Fukushima nuclear disaster in Japan has also been a factor. China immediately announced a safety review of its atomic power plants in response to public concern. Not long afterwards, Xinhua ran an interview with Xu in which he claimed that within a decade alternative energy sources could make existing nuclear reactors obsolete. According to Xu, some of the richest and most powerful companies and institutions in China have committed funds and resources to the research. Christiana Figueres, the top UN diplomat for climate change, said earlier this year that China’s commitment to win the green economy race will leave “all of us in the dust”.

  173. TrollControl July 26, 2011 at 12:25 am #

    You’re drunk- go to bed.

  174. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 12:28 am #

    Sounds like a formula for ice nine. Even if not, how much energy will it take to turn the water into wine?
    You’re going in the wrong direction. The answer is chlorophyll – the closest substance we know to the “force which thru the green fuse drives the flower” to quote the Dylan Thomas.
    We must stop building our cities and start growing them as in the movie Avatar.

  175. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 12:29 am #

    Who the hell are you to talk to Soak like that?

  176. TrollControl July 26, 2011 at 12:31 am #

    Vlad- Put down the bottle and go to bed. Dream of large white women.

  177. soak July 26, 2011 at 12:38 am #

    Troll Control is another troll who has contributed absolutely zero of substance in the way of solutions to “peak oil”
    This board is consumed by people obsessed by personalities and anti-this and anti-that, instead of substance. That is the real noise here.

  178. jackieblue2u July 26, 2011 at 12:47 am #

    so make her feel that she’s for real.
    treat her like a lady.
    very cool. thanks. i enjoyed that.
    could be the song of the week on cfn !
    jb

  179. TrollControl July 26, 2011 at 12:51 am #

    I disagree. I see my contribution as calling out people who are off-topic. What contribution does racism have to “peak oil” solutions? But I appreciate the call to contribute to the discussion. Many people on this site like to read and learn and not be distracted by trolls. I am one who would like to learn about peak oil solutions without the noise of drunken racists. I’ll contribute my attempt at keeping things on topic. Good night!

  180. jackieblue2u July 26, 2011 at 12:55 am #

    I enjoyed their posts also. Good guys.
    Intelligent posts.
    I miss them.
    jb

  181. ad_idem July 26, 2011 at 12:57 am #

    Your prophetic views – having history and human behavior/ nature on your side -are all to real a possibility for those paying attention.
    Like you, we must emphatically point out the all-to-real, horrible brutalities awaiting us if we again fail as in 1933. Holocausts are, unfortunately, not relegated to the dust-bin of history just yet.
    Fascism did not die in 1945; it’s been resting, watching, evolving; gathering strength with new hatreds & fears. Now, again it must be called out and shouted down.
    It’s good here at CF; my weekly refuge in country and kin.

  182. jackieblue2u July 26, 2011 at 1:04 am #

    I feel same way. It was like a family for awhile.
    quite awhile.
    Warm wishes to all those who were / are gentlemen and respectful. You know who you are / were. It’s refreshing.
    I enjoy reading but don’t have a way with words.
    Thanks to the ones who don’t snipe at eachother in really degrading ways.

  183. asia July 26, 2011 at 1:04 am #

    The Libs are Huff Post are having a hatefest!!!!
    However the Huffingtons made their $ in OIL in
    East Timor, it was blood money.
    [200,000? killed]
    The lefties at HP dont know or care.
    Huffington also tried to buy a seat with
    50,000,000$ [in 1990s money, I may be off by a few million].

  184. asia July 26, 2011 at 1:06 am #

    3 Browns…2 as Governor, and the Brown Nation.
    Whats said about booze….
    white before brown or itll go down[?]

  185. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 1:08 am #

    Did you read the Unabomber’s Manifesto? What did you think? I was thinking about it since Breivik read it and then I thought of you. The Unabomber’s radical enviromentalism is much like your’s I think. And his mode of expression is extraordinary: simple and easy to read yet superbly logical and methodical – like a mathematical proof. Not an easy combiantion to pull off.
    Of course I don’t refer to his actions or his morals – which were atrocious.

  186. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 1:11 am #

    Your’re welcome Jackie.

  187. asia July 26, 2011 at 1:11 am #

    Prove he balanced the budget…
    can you cite a credible source?
    If he did ,fine…balanced budget + GATT NAFTA.

  188. asia July 26, 2011 at 1:14 am #

    Southern Poverty Law Center..O Pleeze!
    One more left lawyer starting a ‘charity’.

  189. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 1:16 am #

    We got rid of Troll. We are stronger together than apart. Our Salt/Pepper Community could generate enough energy to solve the crisis. What is gravity after all but the Law of Love operating at the level of matter? And above that is magnetism, the man/woman mystery.

  190. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 1:18 am #

    If brown is beer, what is the white?

  191. asia July 26, 2011 at 1:18 am #

    IMPERMANANCE
    You miss Wage, who denied the killings of Mao n Stalin?

  192. TrollControl July 26, 2011 at 1:22 am #

    Now you’re getting it, Vlad! “Ebony and ivory work together in perfect harmony.”

  193. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 1:26 am #

    It’s can’t be destroyed – it’s built into Nature even as Yog Sothoth and the other Great Old Ones are. We will return – when the stars are right.
    Of course all fears are irrational right? It’s so much fun to make up and/or use all those prefix phobia words. And incorrect since the most racist areas are typically the ones that have had the most exposure to Blacks or Mexicans. Knowledge not prejudice in other words.
    Just shouted down? Don’t you also mean physical assault as is common by Communists in both Europe and America?

  194. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 1:30 am #

    Asoka and I are very close. The opposite of Love is not Hatred but indifference. I will be good friends with Asoka in the next world, the world beyond bodies. In this world, the show must go on. We all have been given our parts! What kind of play is without conflict? Who would pay to go see that?

  195. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 1:51 am #

    Stalin once said that Communism could not succeed in America as long as Henry Ford lived. No greater praise was or will ever be given to a man. The praise of the Foe is highly valued in true cultures.

  196. Buck Stud July 26, 2011 at 2:00 am #

    I believe Marlin hasn’t been heard from since, how shall I phrase this, blowing a anti-Muslim load faster than a virgin teenager. For at least one poster, let’s not blame “the noise” for the absence.

  197. Patrizia July 26, 2011 at 2:15 am #

    “Nobody knows anything”
    That happens when everybody knows everything.
    In Napoli, Palermo, Cagliari, nobody sees,nobody hears, nobody knows, because evrybody knows who resp. Camorra, Mafia and N´drangheta are and everybody has something to earn and a lot to lose.
    That is the way you can build the biggest network of criminals that lives on the shoulders of the many who work and believe in “democracy, law and order”.
    If there were less believers and more viewers, may be, we would have hopes.

  198. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 3:48 am #

    Europe in 2029. It’s later than you think.
    http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=10269

  199. old69 July 26, 2011 at 3:54 am #

    America Lays Off
    From:
    “Are mass layoffs back?”
    http://money.msn.com/stock-broker-guided/article.aspx?post=aeedf27d-af10-42ca-8ab3-edbedcd6063f
    I love it when America lays off people from jobs ! That is so cool ! That is a productive economy at work ! Not like the Eurosclerosis Germany or JAPAN or many others that have to “think twice” to kick out a Mass of Turds that workers generally are. Actually, it is harder and harder to justify keeping almost anyone on a payroll since they are almost All Turds, worthless Freeloaders, that just want cash and don’t want HARD WORK, they don’t want to WORK REALLY HARD FOR THE CASH they are robbing employers. They just want to freeload and hang around and make believe they are working and producing. But guess what ? The companies are going to fire all of you, they are going to lay you off TURD. That is so correct morally and ethically speaking, that is the way a real productive economy operates, keep the workers on the edge, keep them on fire, keep them always worried, let them know and sense constantly, for years on end that they are being given essentially a free salary since what they do is always worthless, is always worth zero, it is always the kind gentle heart of the Employers that just give them that money for free that keeps them alive when they should all just go away and hopefully die or get lost.
    Keep up the good job USA, keep firing people, keep them UNDER THE THUMB, let them know WHO THE MAN IS just in case they forget, go for it man, you can do it, go for it!
    By firing people constantly you keep them on the ball, they have to always invent and innovate and find new ways for companies to make profits, that is economic – social and scientific progress achieved, and the USA is really capable of this. Just try doing that in France or Sweden, see how hard it is, how much resistance the workers oppose, those freeloaders, layabouts that don’t produce anything but scum off the poor employers and rich, the only ones that are truly and really keeping this world going, since Man is a Turd, must constantly be whipped and knocked into discipline, otherwise they wouldn’t do anything but just sleep all day.
    On another note, I saw some footage of the 1969 Rock Festival Woodstock on youtube, two gals and guys were riding horses, there was this song “Long time Coming” playing, really cool. Wow, what a world and place that must have been in that time, who knows what they were thinking and feeling, wow how far we are from that stuff. But the really interesting thing about it is that there were at least 12 references to machines of various types (and a car Porsche), it was more of a celebration of machinery and mechanized agriculture and such than anything else: indeed, the entire Woodstock Generation and stuff was mostly EXCESS CAPACITY ACHIEVED, the Technological Economy bringing free wealth to millions by the use of machines, the consumption economy achieved, that is why the hippies went all for it, finally free with free love, free sex, free everything, and also the machines and technology was at the heart of all the New Rock Music starting from the early 1960s on, like ELECTRIC GUITARS, AMPLIFIERS, the entire deal of electronics and technology once again applied to create new music, new experiences, economies of scale, heck, even LSD was a technology, a new chemical technology that opened the mind (in the prediction of Modified Minds, Instant Singularities, and new designs of neural networks in new brains). Anyways, the entire deal of counterculture, Woodstock and such was mostly a celebration of the success of Technology applied to the economy generating free time and free wealth and making life all Fun and Games available to a young and horny youth. A celebration of consumption and consumerism (even though they made believe that it was “back to nature”, what clowns, they just paid lip service to “nature” (which has always been Man’s Enemy big time and will always be Man’s Enemy notwithstanding this new crappy and fake religion of “nature worshiping” on behalf of greens and environmentalists), it was a celebration of a successful Capitalist and Consumerist and Technological Economy that really made any of that possible, go figure) of the new modern economy generating free wealth for all by the application of Technology and Economies of Scale and such to all productive endeavors. And the USA looked way richer then than now. Strange…
    On another note, I got tired of thinking of work in terms of aggregation of effort, of a sequence of activities that add up and construct something like Skyscrapers and Rockets to Mars, etc. The truth is work is just a ritual, just a behavior of people towards each other and themselves, just activities that don’t add up to anything, don’t create a result, shouldn’t create a result (otherwise there would no longer be any work left for anyone, it would “run out”), work is mostly a process, a repetitive process done over and over again with different combination of elements, new companies, new endeavors but that really doesn’t add up to anything much, nay, doesn’t have to add up to anything since this idea of work adding up is just another one of those linearities our mind is in love with, another one of those simple cause and effect models are mind loves to superimpose on reality believing in our mental models when these are always wrong and fake and make believe. There are no models, out mind is always wrong, end of story. AMEN.

  200. Eleuthero July 26, 2011 at 4:41 am #

    One of the hilarious ironies of the Republican
    insistence on deficit reduction with no revenue
    increases is that I’d bet that a very large
    percentage of the plutocrats that they wish
    to protect are either: 1) From industries like
    the oil industry that get special tax breaks,
    and/or 2) The THIEVES from the investment
    banking and insurance industry who are, as I
    speak, giving themselves bonuses after the U.S.
    public bailed the bastards out.
    The goofy Supply-Siders want us to “grow” our
    way out of the debt problem (a euphemism for
    letting felonious plutocrats keep their booty)
    yet they’ve been quite accommodating to the
    idea of letting all the good jobs go to India,
    Malaysia, China, or anywhere else where they’re
    used to starving peons.
    I’m a DAVID STOCKMAN Republican and, therefore,
    I realize that Supply Side Economics HAS NEVER
    WORKED IN WORLD HISTORY. Why? The rich can
    only spend so much and the rest is used for
    speculation, influence peddling or is merely HOARDED.
    As Ravi Batra showed in the 1980s, as a
    percentage of pay, the rich give far, far less
    than the poor and middle class to charity. They
    don’t promote or contribute to the “trickling
    down” of their wealth to any cause other than
    their shareholders. These are the fuckers that
    would lay off a thousand soccer mom so that they
    can give themselves a 20% raise after their
    corporation LOSES money.
    But my first point is the most germane … the
    rich are now Communists in disguise because they
    realize how sweet it is to SOCIALIZE ALL THE
    LOSSES AND PRIVATIZE ALL THE GAINS. The basis
    of neo-Conservative ideology is the Straussian
    idea that they are SUPERIOR BEINGS and, therefore,
    it’s only rightful that they garner all the power
    and loot from the doe-eyed “little people” for
    whom they have lofty rhetoric … that doesn’t
    make a goddamned bit of sense.
    E.

  201. Eleuthero July 26, 2011 at 5:00 am #

    Uh … right. Please wake me from my
    slumber when the Chinese put COLD FUSION
    to work, okay? Since I’m a heavy sleeper
    I figure that I’ll be asleep for, oh, a
    few hundred years waiting for the Chinese
    to be that inventive … or the end of
    the world, whichever comes first.
    E.

  202. uncle slappy July 26, 2011 at 5:26 am #

    I think he’s got it right, a default to take down China who will be left holding the bag of T-bills. But so will a lot of other countries, namely Japan. But we’ll buy their cars, they’ll buy our airplanes etc…

  203. cheekychews July 26, 2011 at 6:23 am #

    Hi Progress …
    “Where are you, btw?”
    Australia … the land that spawned Rupert Murdoch

  204. Eleuthero July 26, 2011 at 6:50 am #

    Nah. There’s no grand plan to “take down
    China”. Besides, even S&P, Moody’s, and
    Fitch are all aware that this would be a
    TECHNICAL DEFAULT, not a STRUCTURAL
    “inability-to-pay” default that would last
    a couple of days until one side or the other
    said “uncle”.
    Non-payment of interest for some absurdly
    short period of time (let’s even say ONE
    MONTH) as a “punishment” would be like
    trying to attack an elephant with a few
    handfuls of gnats.
    E.

  205. welles July 26, 2011 at 7:38 am #

    From 321.gold.com : My local newspaper ran a story about the escalating battle between Amazon.com and the state of California. At issue is the collection of sales tax: Governor Jerry Brown signed a law requiring online retailers to collect state sales tax on purchases made by CA residents.
    Before the ink dried on the legislation, Amazon severed ties with its estimated 10,000 affiliates in CA. These are – or were – small businesses that earned commissions on customers who clicked through their website to the online bookseller.

    hahaha, a confederacy of dunces. count me out.
    peace peaceniks

  206. lbendet July 26, 2011 at 7:50 am #

    E.
    re: Republican insistence on deficit reduction…
    They couldn’t care less about deficit reduction. Anyone with a functional brain would know that you need balances. This is their “brand” and they’ve gotten people behind them on this non-existent principle.
    The whole Milton Friedman-supply side ideology has never worked anywhere its been instituted, but that doesn’t stop them from shocking the public and taking everything they can steal–that’s the name of the game.
    They’ve done this stunt many times and they know just how it will end up, that said, I’m sure there are many useful idiots that get elected that have no idea what this is about.
    Your other point about the rich not giving/or carrying a whole economy with their buying is of course an impossibility! How can you compare their numbers against the buying power of the rest of the population. It’s pure fantasy.
    Superior, eh? They’re made of the same stuff we are and when they are exposed to radiation and other deadly substances they don’t care about—they’ll go with the rest of us.
    But I say, what was wrong with the whole country, when they heard in what they believed to be an egalitarian, democratic society that money would “trickle down”–wow, the rich are going to give us a golden shower, alright—then they’ll take us to the cleaners!

  207. progress,conserve July 26, 2011 at 8:21 am #

    “END OF TRANSMISSION TO P,C THE COWARD WHO IGNORES ME” -soak, in ALL CAPS-
    Ask not for whom the Troll trolls.
    He trolls for thee.
    haha hoho hehe

  208. soak July 26, 2011 at 8:47 am #

    P,C since you refuse to address me directly and since you continue to request dialog about “peak everything” solutions, at least dialog with me through TrollControl.
    Are you even concerned about the 1.6 BILLION human beings who have no electricity, and the resulting 1.6 MILLION human beings who die from lack of electricity? Or is your only concern anti-immigration… that they stay on the other side of your imaginary border?
    What is your solution, if you don’t think cold fusion is real, and if you care about those 1.6 BILLION without electricity on the other side of the border?
    Please answer through TrollControl if you cannot show respect, if you cannot bring yourself to address a Black man directly.

  209. soak July 26, 2011 at 8:48 am #

    Don’t get too comfy. It may be a nap, not a long slumber.

  210. soak July 26, 2011 at 9:03 am #

    Buck, in fairness, Marlin is a victim of main stream media.
    People who are white and Christian are not referred to as “Christian terrorists” but Muslims are constantly referred to as “jihadi terrorists” or “Islamic terrorists”
    Add to that the fact that Marlin’s anti-government, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim philosophy mirrors the Christian terrorist in Norway… well, it is embarrassing.
    The white media likes to portray Norway as a “peaceful” European country. They never mention that Norway is actively engaged in the prosecution of war in two Muslim countries.
    The white media likes to refer to “loners” and “maladjusted” individuals and prefer to not make the link between their anti-government philosophy and their violence. Their morals and actions are called “atrocious” … as if there is no connection between their anti-immigrant racism and their actions.
    The death of white European civilians is mourned and splashed all over CNN.
    The weekly slaughter of non-white civilians in Muslim countries through drone bombers (which the USA officially will not acknowledge are being used) is week after week called “misfortunate” or “unintentional” … really? You build drone bombers, send them on missions, kill civilians with them on a regular basis and then say it’s an “accident”?
    The regular drone bombing and murder of civilians in the middle east is terrorism by White Christian terrorists. But Marlin will never read that in the main stream media.

  211. bossier22 July 26, 2011 at 9:39 am #

    we should acknowledge what we do in war, especially if everyone knows about it anyway. What we are doing is the nature of war. If we believe we are right we should not have a problem with it. When obliterated white German cities, we showed news reels of it. Generally, i don’t think we are accomplishing a thing in afghanistan, without considering issues of right and wrong.

  212. old69 July 26, 2011 at 9:39 am #

    As in Give Them a Problem they will be satisfied. As opposed to or as complementary to Give Them a Function they will be satisfied, as the function is always a Problem Solving mode device, as in the risk you take in trying to solve the problem or not is in the reward of the absence of Pain or something like that.
    All is a risk, all is a bet, all is a Function, all is a Problem Solving mode, but our mind – experience needs problems to execute functions that play the emotional game of winning or losing (play the game and take your chance with the risk or reward outcome), but we should prefer to be bored, or give up from the outset…

  213. soak July 26, 2011 at 9:40 am #

    The Republican plan being offered today (July 26) would lead to a downgrading of the AAA credit rating of the United States. Which is what the Republicans want.
    From day one they have said: “We want Obama to fail” and they have done everything they can to bring Obama down.
    Dozens of times the debt ceiling has been raised under all previous presidents without linking it to budget or spending.
    Now, with this Black president, they are threatening to throw the country into a Depression, rather than pass a simple clean bill to raise the debt ceiling.
    Obama needs to invoke the 14th Amendment. Obama is a war time President and active duty soldiers fighting wars are being threatened by Republicans who will cut their funding. The financing of the “War on Terror” is being threatened by these traitors who want to bring Obama down.

  214. Omar Bongo July 26, 2011 at 10:09 am #

    Ya vol, Tovarish Nachalnik!

  215. loveday July 26, 2011 at 10:12 am #

    Wow, apparently you don’t know much about the Chinese. China is one of the oldest civilizations on the planet, China was a highly evolved society when the Western world was in the Dark Ages.
    Anyway hearing that the Chinese are becoming involved with Cold Fusion is great news! And really, questioning this technology is smart, however Rossi has a company( Defkalion) that will be producing household units starting this fall. That means a substantial financial investment has been made, in other words people put their money where their mouth is. Like I said I want to buy one for my home. I think that a new energy technology is entirely possible and has been predicted by Gerald Celente of Trends Research a very reputable and savvy trend watcher.
    So cheer up! all you doomers and gloomers! Like I said things are going to be tough, but the good things in life always come at a very high price.
    So long until next week folks.

  216. ront July 26, 2011 at 10:31 am #

    Excellent points made, Hero. The Tea Party has bought the Supply Side Economy myth with its tinkle down of stolen wealth effect. For accuracy’s sake they should change their name to The Pee Potty.

  217. soak July 26, 2011 at 11:10 am #

    E. I detect a hint of skepticism in your remarks. Cold fusion technology is currently in its final stages of becoming an industrialized and commercially viable prototype. The current range of products produces surplus energy from 6 to 30 times more heat than energy consumed during its operation. There are three factories located in Xanthi, China. The first 1MW reactor will be used to partially cover factory energy needs, as well as being a show case model. A national patent has been issued for Italy; the EU patent is on its final stage, while the global patent is pending. Hyperion patents are pending. EU safety certificates are in the process of issuance by the relevant authorities. Product tests will be similar to typical commercially available products with standardized procedures according to Performance; Stability; Functionality; and Safety. Don’t sleep too long, E.

  218. Cash July 26, 2011 at 11:28 am #

    That sounded like a goodbye. I hope you don’t quit on us. You do so have a way with words. You’ve got your own unique style. Your posts are a real antidote to the anger and regret and paranoia and other bad stuff that you see posted here by so many of us.

  219. progress,conserve July 26, 2011 at 11:34 am #

    Here we have a classic attempt at redirection of argument – as attempted by soak:
    “What is your solution, if you don’t think cold fusion is real, and if you care about those 1.6 BILLION without electricity on the other side of the border?” -soak-
    Thus, does soak make me, personally, responsible for 1.6 billion souls who lack electricity – since I do not *”BELIEVE”* in cold fusion.
    =====================
    If anything, emmigration of the “best and brightest” from those countries WITHOUT electricity – only further dooms those unelectrified countries to continuing and worsening poverty.
    It is quite selfish of the US to continue to impoverish the destitute – by enabling the flight to the US, of those who might best have a chance of solving problems if they would JUST STAY HOME – and help their friends and families – in their home country.
    ==================
    On a *humorous?* note, the rate of death by electrocution was 2.1 per million people, in the US, in 1993.
    So, extrapolating that number for a decade, and allowing the US population to rise to 1.9 Billion, in accordance with soak’s wishes (1.6 billion plus 0.3 billion) gives us 39,900 US RESIDENTS KILLED BY ELECTROCUTION EVERY SINGLE DECADE!!!
    THAT’S THIRTY NINE THOUSAND NINE HUNDRED DEATHS DUE TO ELECTRICITY AND GROSS OVERPOPULATION in 10 short years, just in the US.
    VERY LARGE NUMBERS OF HUMANS IN THE ELECTRIFIED UNITED STATES ARE, INDEED, NOT A DESIRABLE THING!
    Join a population control group before it’s too late.
    Do it now!

  220. ront July 26, 2011 at 12:05 pm #

    I am so happy to know that the The Pee Potty is for fiscal responsibility. What is their stance on bringing back excise taxes (hence, manufacturing & jobs) and progressive tax rates that encourage big business owners to invest in real wealth creation and the generous sharing of it?

  221. Cash July 26, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    And now here’s something as a brief respite from our usual diet of doom and disaster. Tell me this isn’t just wild ass great:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN7O9gM-lvc&NR=1
    Wasn’t that something? Here’s more and even better IMO:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6u4rmZiDVY&feature=related
    Sheesh.

  222. soak July 26, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    Thus, does soak make me, personally, responsible for 1.6 billion souls who lack electricity…
    —————-
    I never said you were responsible. I asked you what your proposed solution is. I asked you if you even care. Your answer is pretty clear. You don’t care because you are not concerned about solutions. What concerns you is that they all stay in their own damned countries. You have an us-them mentality, instead of recognizing we are all in this together.

  223. Dolan Williams July 26, 2011 at 12:49 pm #

    Heh Cash, thanks for posting that. That chick is just too good to be true. My brother was a professional musician but never ever played the guitar like that.

  224. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 12:51 pm #

    But it was Ok since they were just “Huns” or Nazis – unlike the Freedom loving minions of Uncle Joe. They weren’t White Christains like we were. Now suddenly We’re not White anymore, nor Christian since Christians can’t be White. In fact, we don’t even exist. And no one will miss the non dissapearance of a people who aren’t even there to begin with – least of all the non people themselves.
    It’s up to us to fight this program of silent genocide. As Rabbi Hillel said, if I’m not for myself who will be for me? We may find allies in strange places: a Black Bishop in England who said the British have a right to be White. And the Liberal Kurt Vonnegut was one of the few who spoke out against the Dresden Holocaust in his novel “Slaughter House Five”.
    To put it in context: a few years after the war, the Academics of Middle Eastern Persuasion or Influence began to tell us that we were all Nazis just waiting to happen. Now that’s gratitude!

  225. messianicdruid July 26, 2011 at 12:57 pm #

    “Obama is a war time President and active duty soldiers fighting wars are being threatened by Republicans who will cut their funding.”
    Strange that you should be defending “O” on this basis. I’d expected you to desire defunding of wars and soldiers, instead of pretending that Republicans will. Both parties say nothing of defense cuts.
    The recent debt run-up is also intentionally ignored. Represented as a brilliant economy-saving necessity, even if it HAD happened, {but it never really happened, so he simply had to do it, even though he never did it} it would have been necessary. But he didn’t have to do it. Because, after all, he is “0”. And everything he has been made to do is because of “W”. Just wait until he gets to do the things he REALLY wants to do and doesn’t have to clean up after “W” any more.

  226. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 1:06 pm #

    All cultures have Elites who deem themselves better – and they may be better sometimes – on average of course. But what makes a good Elite is how they care for the rest of the social body. What man disdains his own stomach or feet and values only his head?
    This Elite is obviously a horrible one. They want to trade their people in for a more docile one. Realistically, by breaking America into many ethnes this is achieved. It wont be harmonious but they will retain power – or so they believe. I’m not so sure though. To have Black feet and a Mexican stomach with a White/Jewish head doesn’t make for a healthy social body in my view. But they’ve gone to far to stop now. They hold the tiger by the tail and cannot let go.
    Let them compete against a real Nation like China and then talk about the strength of diversity. And God help them if there is a War on American Soil.

  227. Cash July 26, 2011 at 1:07 pm #

    Do you think she’s not playing for real? Her name’s Shotaro Nakamura. If it’s for real she’s bloody awesome.

  228. rippedthunder July 26, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    Sheesh Cash, do we americant’s have to offshore all our inventions? We invented the shred and now the copyrights have been stolen!

  229. Dolan Williams July 26, 2011 at 1:14 pm #

    Oh, I’m pretty sure she’s playing for real. I live in a suburb of Los Angeles that has a very large number of Asian kids in our schools. You can bet your next paycheck that when you go to a school event you’re going to be listening to Korean and Japanese kids playing various musical instruments and they are really talented. So, I have no doubt that this young woman is a very good musician.

  230. wagelaborer July 26, 2011 at 1:17 pm #

    Seriously?
    All the crap that people spew on this blog, and you get in an uproar because someone calls for an end to the root of all evil?
    Amazing.

  231. Cash July 26, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    Yeah RT but this was just sublime. One commenter said he wants to eat her guitar. I was transfixed. She can sure make it sing.

  232. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 1:31 pm #

    Christ said, the poor you will have with you always. Their lives are a penance for the sins of their Fathers – or their own in a previous life. If they accept their fate with equanimity, they will win the Kingdom or at least a higher birth next time around. Or conversely, let them work to better themselves in this life if they can.
    In any case, it’s not automatically our responsibility – unless we have put them in poverty by our actions. I admit this is sometimes the case as in the case of NAFTA destroying a million Mexican farmers or the depletion of the Somalian fishing grounds.

  233. rippedthunder July 26, 2011 at 1:33 pm #

    Hey Cash, check out this if you play guitar, just watch from 3:00 = 8:00 , he is not as sweet at the japanese girl but he is the recognized world’s fastest guitarman.

  234. messianicdruid July 26, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

    “””Obama is a war time President and active duty soldiers fighting wars are being threatened by Republicans who will cut their funding.”””
    This is now a quote of a quote of a quote.

  235. messianicdruid July 26, 2011 at 1:36 pm #

    “All the crap that people spew on this blog, and you get in an uproar because someone calls for an end to the root of all evil?”
    Do you acknowledge any difference between “money” and “the love of money”?

  236. rippedthunder July 26, 2011 at 1:37 pm #

    I knew you were still out there Wage! and too think you come back to chastise the man himself!

  237. rippedthunder July 26, 2011 at 1:38 pm #

    Sorry Cash, I forgot the link,
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BynUZOJc8QI

  238. jackieblue2u July 26, 2011 at 1:43 pm #

    NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING.
    AIN’T THAT TRUE.

  239. jackieblue2u July 26, 2011 at 1:46 pm #

    Not so sure about the Kingdom stuff, but other than that other than that I like what you said.

  240. soak July 26, 2011 at 1:51 pm #

    Welcome back, Wage. Glad you arrived.
    I’m pretty tired… I think I’ll go home now.

  241. soak July 26, 2011 at 1:57 pm #

    Jackieblue, that is one of the reasons, in addition to my concern for Mother Earth, that I did not want to have children.
    You have to raise children, give them values, and teach them well. I realized I could not answer their questions because I do not know anything. And kids ask the darnedest things. No way I wanted to be saying “I don’t know” all day long to their questions.
    “Does God exist?” “What happens after you die?” etc. I do not know.
    I refused to transmit my ignorance to an innocent child who didn’t ask to be born just to have a little Asoka to carry on the family line I wasn’t interested in continuing.

  242. jackieblue2u July 26, 2011 at 2:01 pm #

    YAY, ok I will stay. I thought I was too goofy and bothering fellow posters. (The ones I didn’t want to bother!).
    ALLRIGHTY THEN. Glad we straightened that out.
    I DO enjoy it here. It’s my Getaway. and the 90* Pool at the apt. here. ocean is 55*. when I was 20’s I was in that every day. NOT now. No way Jose. I mean CASH.
    As long as I don’t try to be intelligent, and make sense of all this stuff, I am ok. Or turn it into a ME page !
    Made my day.
    🙂

  243. wagelaborer July 26, 2011 at 2:01 pm #

    I’m not gone, Ripped.
    My dog died and I had to go to California because my Dad was in the hospital.
    I wasn’t up to reading the blog.

  244. soak July 26, 2011 at 2:07 pm #

    Sorry to hear of your loss and your father’s illness, Wage.
    When my dad died I had to travel to go to the funeral. I cried, kind of like Boehner does.

  245. soak July 26, 2011 at 2:09 pm #

    I miss Nudge.
    She really helped me to understand the laws of physics and the concept of energy density and EROEI.

  246. wagelaborer July 26, 2011 at 2:11 pm #

    You got that right, Eleuthero.
    The only “charities” the rich spend on are right wing think tanks spewing out anti-worker propaganda, to make people think that slitting our own throats will make our lives better.
    The only investments they’ve made are in factories in other countries.
    And now they’re sitting on two trillion dollars that they cannot invest or spend.
    They’re just too damn rich.

  247. progress,conserve July 26, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    Trolling ever onward, soak moves seamlessly from redirection to personal attack:
    “What concerns you is that they all stay in their own damned countries. You have an us-them mentality, instead of recognizing we are all in this together.” -soak, to P,C-
    Thus, with a “us-them” label, having spiked any attempt at dialog or compromise on immigration – soak moves on to his next – – –
    Meanwhile, countries experiencing heavy emigration to the US, quietly continue their downward spirals, forever losing their young, inspired, bright, and energetic to one of the largest economies on the Planet.
    A great shame – unacknowledged by the pro-immigrant faction in the US – and by soak, of course.

  248. jackieblue2u July 26, 2011 at 2:18 pm #

    Condolences about your dog.
    You are probably very sad.
    I was when my Cat got sick and went away.
    Really sorry for your loss.
    You ‘HAD’ to come out to CA !
    I HAVE to live here !
    It’s nice where I live, just too many people and too Fast a pace. Born and bread here.
    Don Henley said ‘bloom where you are planted’.
    It’s ok to take breaks from the blog.
    I was wondering about you.
    Really sorry about your pet friend.

  249. soak July 26, 2011 at 2:25 pm #

    Meanwhile, countries experiencing heavy emigration to the US, quietly continue their downward spirals, forever losing their young, inspired, bright, and energetic to one of the largest economies on the Planet.

    And the USA benefits from their intelligence, their drive, their energy making the USA a better country. A real shame that remains unacknowledged by you. A real shame you want to shut them out, and deny them freedom to pursue their dreams wherever they choose to pursue them.

  250. San Jose Mom 51 July 26, 2011 at 2:27 pm #

    “Get your Greek on!” oh yeah!
    Now that have the experience of spending 5 hours in a Greek port, I am a big expert (snort!). Our planned visit was KO’s and because last week Greek taxi drivers shut down the port in Athens, along with the airport.
    Apparently, the problem is that the government used to sell taxi licenses for about $200K. So drivers would take out big loans in order to earn a living. Recently, they lowered the amount to like $10,000. Thus, all the experienced drivers are SOOL. I feel for them but really, if you’ve got 4 huge cruise ships in port with thousands of Europeans, Americans, Asians, etc. wanting rides, what sense does it make to shut down tourism and the money it brings into Greece? Talk about a Cluster****. The police did nothing to open the ports so our captain simply stopped for refueling and then we left for Turkey.
    I wanted to see the Acropolis, but oh well. What I did see of Greek architecture from my veiwpoint off the harbor and I would label it as careless, dingy brutalism. The Germans on board our ship had some really “special” insights on the financial toilet that is Greece.
    We ended up in Venice, where the water taxies were on strike. We worked out other (more expensive) arrangments. Lots of empty storefronts in Italy.
    My international travel career is officially over.
    From now on it’s National Parks.
    SJmom

  251. wagelaborer July 26, 2011 at 2:27 pm #

    Oh, yeah, and paying millions to organize the Tea Party and publicize it widely.
    While ignoring the hundreds of thousands of people who show up at anti-war rallies.

  252. jackieblue2u July 26, 2011 at 2:34 pm #

    Well I KNOW if God exists, but I ain’t sayin’ !
    I was same about children. Knew I couldn’t have dealt with it. Was dealing with other things.
    Emotional stuff.
    I get it.
    I don’t think this life is so peachy keen. Althought I believe it is for some.
    And mine could be better and I hope to make the changes.
    Hey maybe THIS here now, is what happens ‘after we die’. ! ? ?

  253. soak July 26, 2011 at 2:37 pm #

    Welcome back, SJMom! It’s like homecoming today!
    Glad you didn’t have anything more than taxi problems in your travels. There are some beautiful national parks to see and going off-season helps. One of my favorite places is Carlsbad Caverns, especially when it is really hot outside, to walk around underground for hours viewing the formations.

  254. progress,conserve July 26, 2011 at 2:39 pm #

    Hey Wage,
    You know how sorry I am about your dog.
    And having your dad in a hospital half a continent away – wow, that’s rough duty.
    Hang in there, darlin’. 🙂

  255. wagelaborer July 26, 2011 at 2:40 pm #

    Thank you, Jackie, I appreciate that.
    The closest I got to Santa Cruz was the Los Gatos mountains, where we went wine tasting on my nephew’s 21st birthday.
    I’m a born and bred Californian also, but I now prefer fly-over country.
    I do miss my dog.

  256. soak July 26, 2011 at 2:41 pm #

    See? That’s what I mean. People like you KNOW. But I don’t know anything. I tend to see a multitude of perspectives and not know which, if any, is right. I admire that you KNOW if God exists. You must be one of those lucky people who was able to figure it out. So far it has eluded me. I must be dumb.

  257. jackieblue2u July 26, 2011 at 2:47 pm #

    Yep !
    I can see that.

  258. Mrs. Soake July 26, 2011 at 2:51 pm #

    Dumb as a rock. Yeah, you got that part right.

  259. progress,conserve July 26, 2011 at 2:53 pm #

    “Meanwhile, countries experiencing heavy emigration to the US, quietly continue their downward spirals, forever losing their young, inspired, bright, and energetic to one of the largest economies on the Planet.” p,c
    “And the USA benefits from their intelligence, their drive, their energy making the USA a better country. A real shame that remains unacknowledged by you.” -soak-
    No, I freely acknowledge that immigrant labor continues to build into the frenetic consumer economy that IS the United States.
    Logic says that it’s time for immigration into today’s US to slow to “replacement level immigration.”
    Logically, this would cause the growth and power of the US to diminish – something soak calls for in many of his posts.
    Logically, this would allow the growth and power of the third world countries that are the source of US immigrants – to increase, as they retain their “best and brightest,” at home.
    Ignoring logic, and twisting my words –
    Soak trolls onward.

  260. jackieblue2u July 26, 2011 at 3:00 pm #

    I go back and forth. I do think that it’s some kind of awareness thing.
    I always believed in God in This way:
    Like this world is all one big MIND.
    always. still do. and it is Conciousness.
    Connected, like it or not.
    I just think of that as God. don’t even know if it makes sense. to me it does.
    But here is what got me.
    Think of being in a car, or anything where you know you are close to dying, and you think you are going to, but you don’t. cuz you still here.
    What do you think about?
    I know I’ve thought, and started praying like Please God don’t let that car hit us, don’t let me die. I was in a car and the lady driving it passed someone and almost got us into a head on, I was young. You remember stuff like that. Close call.
    I am not religious as in going to church doubt I will ever read the Bible. There is no hope for me!
    Looks to me like Religion IS the cause of so many of the Wars in the world.
    We are all sinners. No one’s perfect. Not even supposed to be.
    I don’t get it either. Just works for me to think this way.

  261. wagelaborer July 26, 2011 at 3:01 pm #

    Maybe they don’t think they’re vulnerable, Lbendet.
    Maybe they have other plans.
    http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2004/08/driving_on_the_.html

  262. soak July 26, 2011 at 3:04 pm #

    See, that’s what I mean. You are smart because you know what is right and are even able to distinguish parts, like when you say: “you got that part right”
    Thank you for your compliment, but I’m never sure which part is right and which part is wrong.
    You must be really smart to be able to recognize all the parts and label certain parts as right and certain parts as wrong.
    I envy smart people like you.
    One thing we are learning this week is the title NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING is not quite correct. There are a lot of smart people on CFN who say they know.

  263. jackieblue2u July 26, 2011 at 3:05 pm #

    Love the Redwoods. to me it’s Heaven on Earth.
    Timeless, I saw the Moody Blues at Mountain Winery. Froze my ass off. so did they. Poor ‘old’ guys. Good to see them tho. Love Justin Hayward, he is a great poet and singer.
    Hey I am close to Santa Cruz but not in it anymore.
    We sure are packed in around here. So many people.

  264. Dolan Williams July 26, 2011 at 3:08 pm #

    Loveday, it seems that you may have signed off for the week so you may not get to read my response to your comments. It’s interesting that you refer to Gerald Celente since he is the guy who maintains we are headed toward a greater economic calamity than occurred during the Great Depression. I’m an old geezer but not old enough to have lived thru that period but my parents and my brother did. I hate to admit to being a ‘Doomer and Gloomer’ but I really have to wear that tag. I think Celente is absolutely correct in predicting that we will soon be falling off an economic cliff. New means of powering things will occur along with all types of new technologies but remember that new innovations also occurred during the 1930’s. Those things did not alleviate the suffering of the American people.

  265. jackieblue2u July 26, 2011 at 3:10 pm #

    See I am BACK with a Vengeance.
    Wish I had a self cleaning house / apt.
    Going to have to go now and get some things done around here.
    here I go………..

  266. soak July 26, 2011 at 3:10 pm #

    Ignoring logic, and twisting my words –
    Soak trolls onward.
    ————
    P,C whatever I say you misinterpret or rephrase to make me look bad. This hurts my feelings. I’m not going to try to answer you any more. Besides I am not even sure I’m right. I mean I think freedom is good, but you seem so sure you are right to want to control entry. Anyway it doesn’t matter who is “right” because people are going to do whatever they want to do. Always have. Some immigrants arrive. Others decide to leave. And we don’t decide who does what. They do.

  267. soak July 26, 2011 at 3:12 pm #

    I think Celente is absolutely correct in predicting that we will soon be falling off an economic cliff.
    ————–
    Yes, it looks like the collapse might happen next Tuesday at 2:00 p.m.

  268. soak July 26, 2011 at 3:13 pm #

    I’m glad you are back. It’s like homecoming today.

  269. Dolan Williams July 26, 2011 at 3:22 pm #

    Jackieblue2u, if you think life is not so smooth, just try having kids. My daughter almost died on January 1st due to an overdose. The guy she was supposed to marry turned out to be a child molester who just got out of a Kansas prison where he served 8 years. Not realizing what was up and believing they were going to wed, my wife and I loaned him some money and we obviously got screwed out of that when he went on the lam. Sheesh, I could go on and on but I really don’t want to bore the folks here.

  270. ront July 26, 2011 at 3:42 pm #

    “I tend to see a multitude of perspectives and not know which, if any, is right. I admire that you KNOW if God exists. You must be one of those lucky people who was able to figure it out.”
    Soak, as regards what perspective is right, my understanding thus far is that it all depends upon the situation in the moment. One can try to his best and then see what happens, be receptive to the lessons of life.
    It seems you put a great value on KNOWING that God exists (or does not). Figuring this out will, at best, as I understand it, give one an intellectual belief or opinion one way or the other. I do not see much value in this as there are so many different ideas one could hold about the nature of God or spirituality.
    I recommend, if one is sincerely serious about finding Truth, to seek it, long for it, be receptive when It answers or reveals Itself to you. Also, getting familiar with what is false, illusion, delusional is a great help. Finally, loving and serving God or Truth as you see it, as well as receiving the Love and Guidance from the Self within, even in the smallest ways, is a worthwhile enterprise whether God exists or not.

  271. wagelaborer July 26, 2011 at 3:42 pm #

    Hey, don’t apologize for Uncle Ned.
    Marlin can be very obnoxious, even to the point of pushing me, known for my even temper and calmness, to gratuitous insults.

  272. wagelaborer July 26, 2011 at 3:44 pm #

    Yes, I acknowledge the distinction.
    But I couldn’t comment succinctly by adding “the love of”.
    It kind of goes without saying, anyway.

  273. San Jose Mom 51 July 26, 2011 at 3:48 pm #

    Holy Toledo Dolan! Sounds like you’ve been through trying times….definitely not boring.
    Hope things settle down.

  274. Auntie River July 26, 2011 at 3:56 pm #

    JACKIEBLUE2U Sez – “This world is one big Mind…and it is all consciousness, connected, like it or not. I just think of that as God”.
    Right on Sister Jackie! Testify! This is exactly how Ned and I think about God. Its All One, all conscious, from the tiny electron to the largest galaxy. And when we pass away, its like the drop of water going back into the ocean.Who knows what that’s all about? In the meantime we might as well try to enjoy and appreciate our time on this magnificent planet…and not ‘ over think’ these spiritual matters.
    And speaking of the Moody Blues, the designated soundtrack for today is the deep and classic ‘Tuesday Afternoon’.

  275. Eleuthero July 26, 2011 at 4:12 pm #

    LBendet said:
    But I say, what was wrong with the whole country, when they heard in what they believed to be an egalitarian, democratic society that money would “trickle down”–wow, the rich are going to give us a golden shower, alright—then they’ll take us to the cleaners!
    ****************************************************
    A “golden shower” is right because Boehner is
    using the elderly, the military … all those
    who have a paycheck coming as a “human shield”
    to defend themselves against the “evil Obama”.
    I consider what Boehner is doing as akin to a
    gangster holding a baby in front of himself to
    avoid being shot by police.
    As you point out, as STOCKMAN pointed out 30
    years ago … the rich have NEVER initiated a
    process whereby their lucre will “trickle down”
    to the “little people”. However, we have a
    NEW problem on our hands in that the TEA PARTY
    is acting like we have to “destroy the country
    to save it” much like the “save-and-destroy”
    operations in the Vietnam War.
    The Tea Party are just another wing of the Republican Party that wants to create an
    artificial problem to make some rhetorical point.
    In this case, they want the emergency raising of
    the debt ceiling tied to a FINAL decision on
    things like a Balanced Budget Amendment which are
    LONG TERM things. That’s pure extortion used as
    a political tactic.
    You saw what happened to the dollar today. It’s
    going to get worse because even if some eleventh
    hour raise of the debt ceiling occurs, the faith
    of foreigners to get SIMPLE THINGS done in this
    country is being badly bruised.
    E.

  276. BeantownBill July 26, 2011 at 4:16 pm #

    Working fusion reactors would solve our energy problems, for sure, but we’d still have concerns about food supply, unsupportable population densities, rising tempuratures, environmental pollution, etc. But eliminating energy issues would be a major step in buying us adequate time to ensure our survival.
    Personally, I’m very skeptical about cold fusion. It was brought to the public’ss attention in 1989 with the Pons/Fleishmann fiasco. Since then several scientists have claimed they witnessed what could only be room temperature fusion, but their claims were proven wrong or unsubstantiated.
    Fusion is one of the, or THE major sources of energy in the universe. This is what powers stars. But the thing is, it is hot energy and it requires temperatures and pressures unimaginably high. Nature tends to take the easiest path, so that if cold fusion was possible, it would be available everywhere, and we don’t see that.
    That’s not to say it can’t happen. Maybe it can. But extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and as of yet, the scientific community hasn’t found any evidence of it, although there’s always a few individual scientists claiming they’ve produced it.
    If I was the scientist that found a way to produce cold fusion economically, I’d get a patent and then announce the details of my discovery so that the world could benefit (while I got obscenely rich).
    I do think producing fusion energy is coming, although I have no idea when nor how. By the way, we have been harnessing fusion energy for thousands of years, through the use of sunlight.

  277. messianicdruid July 26, 2011 at 4:18 pm #

    “It kind of goes without saying, anyway.”
    This lack of distinction is why too many good people are poor and too many of the wicked are rich. Granted, they worship mammon; but money is still just a tool. It can be used for good.
    Waddington rages against debt, then confounds himself by blaming our problems on money. Usurous debt is the curse, the destroyer, maker of paupers and friend of thieves.

  278. ozone July 26, 2011 at 4:21 pm #

    RT,
    HEAVY weather comin’ in fast….
    buh-bye
    batten down the hatches!

  279. Eleuthero July 26, 2011 at 4:25 pm #

    Forget heads, feet, and stomachs, Vlad. The
    way the dollar is going, Asians are buying
    up West Coast property and businesses at such
    a rate that it’s our national SOUL that is
    going bye-bye. You would not believe what
    is happening in the San Francisco Bay Area
    which, if Indians are counted as Asians (which
    they, of course, are), is now around 44% Asian.
    The Bay Area is America’s Yugoslavia because like
    the old Yugoslavia, all these merging ethnicities
    do NOT interact with the pre-existing Anglo
    culture and, indeed, they even try to do all their
    BUSINESS with people of their own tribe.
    This trend will silently continue and foreign
    nationals of all stripes won’t need to best
    American in a shooting war. It’s a fire sale
    and the country is slowly being bought up
    piece by piece.
    Personally, I think it’s a sin when these
    countries (whose slave labor camps and
    shantytowns amid squalor are de rigeur) and
    their ethos get to penetrate our country.
    One of the many reasons I retired early at
    59 was to escape a joyless campus full of
    these earnest automata … who’ve carried
    their FILTHY habits with them and couldn’t
    even bus their trays in the cafeteria.
    E.

  280. Eleuthero July 26, 2011 at 4:27 pm #

    Correction to my last post …
    The line that says “shantytowns amid squalor”
    should read “shantytowns amid gleaming high
    tech highrises”.
    E.

  281. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 4:34 pm #

    r

  282. ozone July 26, 2011 at 4:37 pm #

    u

  283. messianicdruid July 26, 2011 at 4:38 pm #

    “I consider what Boehner is doing as akin to a
    gangster holding a baby in front of himself to
    avoid being shot by police.”
    What do you consider O’s doings to be “akin to”?
    “Let us not forget that this President came into office and ran the credit card to the extent of more than $1,500 billion a year for the last two years. He continued the bankrupt policies of George Bush who did the same damn thing. He has blown money like crazy, yet has utterly refused to face the fact that there is no way he can continue to do what we’ve been doing with these deficits for the indefinite future.
    We were told these deficits were necessary due to a crisis in 2008. But we have also been told the crisis is over. That our economy is recovering. That Wall Street is “healthy.” That the banks are “ok” and “well-capitalized.”
    These are lies and The President knows it! The economy is a damn wreck. The banks are only “solvent” because they’re lying about asset values. And Wall Street is punch-drunk – again – on cheap leverage, headed for yet another utter and complete disaster.”
    http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=190685

  284. ozone July 26, 2011 at 4:38 pm #

    experienced?

  285. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 4:40 pm #

    Marlin is very polite. He just reminds you of your neighbors. Your inability to see yourself is typical of both Communists and Women in general.

  286. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 4:51 pm #

    Now this is why we need outer space – to test out schemes like this. If it works, bring it down. Or maybe keep it there and just bring the energy down. There are some ideas out there about how….

  287. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 4:57 pm #

    You are a de facto White Nationalist since you value our culture and understand that genes carry memes. Unlike me, you don’t believe it to be intrinsic but only circumstancial, but it is enough. After all we don’t have the power to acculturate these people. With what? Womyn’s studies? Porn TV? Foreign Affair’s Magazine? Why should they give up their ancient cultures for alot of crap? Why change for a Nation that’s clearly dying and wont outlive their children’s youth?

  288. ozone July 26, 2011 at 5:01 pm #

    “I talk to myself because I am the only one with enough intelligence and moral acumen to understand my grandiloquent notions and ultimate truths.” -the multitudinous soak-io[s]
    PoC,
    Since you follow his postings, if you should ever get on to what his game is, please let the rest of us know. I have my own theories, but I’ll keep ’em to myself.

  289. tucsonspur July 26, 2011 at 5:06 pm #

    Jim, I do know something. I know that it was appropriate that a kartoffelkloesse was lobbed, rather than some goodie from Konditor Meister. The Germans would have really been pissed.
    I’m more than a bit moody and poor of spirit knowing that Moody’s and Standard and Poor may be giving us a ratings downgrade.It’s not only because I think that we already deserved a downgrade, but because these are the same people who continued the high ratings of MBS well after the housing market went south.
    The same edacious jackanapes are still at the helm, and the otherwise toothy Obama has been edentulous when it comes to reform. Fuck ’em all.

  290. progress,conserve July 26, 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    “PoC,
    Since you follow his postings, if you should ever get on to what his game is, please let the rest of us know. I have my own theories, but I’ll keep ’em to myself.” -ozone, concerning soak-
    Ozone – alrighty, will do!
    I’d actually enjoy hearing your theory about soak, or that of anyone else.
    I consider it relevant because Soak posts so much on CFN – and does his dead level best to repeatedly disrupt the discussion thread on several important topics.
    And you know me by now, O3 – ever hopeful and ever helpful – as I try to engage folks on CFN and elsewhere to make things better for:
    my family
    my state
    my country
    my Planet
    I think that if everyone on Earth would really try to do those things – in that order – that we might yet pull humanity back from extinction.
    But I do believe time is getting short.

  291. progress,conserve July 26, 2011 at 5:41 pm #

    “The Bay Area is America’s Yugoslavia because like
    the old Yugoslavia, all these merging ethnicities
    do NOT interact with the pre-existing Anglo
    culture and, indeed, they even try to do all their
    BUSINESS with people of their own tribe.”
    -E-
    Well stated, I’m afraid, E. That’s the visible proof of the failure of modern multiculturalism and the probable future of wide swaths of the United States.
    And that’s if the power stays on and civilian law enforcement stays in the saddle with abundant fossil fuel resources.
    One of the overriding premises of this website is that fossil fuel is finite.
    It was over a year ago that we had a poster saying repeatedly:
    there’s oil enough for 47 years!
    there’s oil enough for 47 years!
    there’s oil enough for 47 years!
    Well, even if that guy was right, it’s now 46 years – which is not that long –
    tick. tick. tick.
    Let’s all remember what happened in Yugoslavia.
    Join a group.
    Work to reduce US population growth.

  292. Alexandra July 26, 2011 at 6:05 pm #

    Once the bulk of what’s left of the US’s manufacturing capacity has been finally offshored to Asia/China et al – to take advantage of the lower labour costs and the better trading environments – as this process comes to its logical conclusion… the ability of the US to import raw materials – ENDS!!
    So nations that can continue to manufacture goods say like CNC machines, IT/tech, automobiles, ships and airplanes and successfully export them, will be able to keep buying resources on the open market, as opposed to say other nations in which the vast majority of the population just sell each other cups of frothy coffee, fast-food-snackery, cheesy-doodles etc in exchange for hair cuts, tattoo’s and nail art – those peeps will eventually have nowt to bargain with at all…
    And the ‘idea’ that technical innovation and creativity can create wealth is as forlorn a hope too, as it assumes that no one else in the world is as technically or creatively savvy… as you are?
    Errrggh wake up Houston, (tis over for NASA)… and the Chinese will soon start hoovering up the minerals lying on the surface of the moon…
    *sniggers*
    No present/future US politician enjoying the fruits of the politico-gravy-train is EVER going to tell the electorate that there is a problem. Instead you’ll be CNN/Msnbc spoon-fed that the global economy is a wonderful thing, that the working population is rising, and that the GDP is ever increasing.
    (So relax CFN’ers and crack open another Bud’)
    Meanwhile the real truth of it is, pensions and comprehensive health care are things of the past, for any country that is accelerating toward bankruptcy, and when the money finally does run out… one end of the supply chain collapses and the others quickly follow – think falling stacked dominos…
    And lets’ face it – the bulk of ordinary (majority) people lean toward the very short term view of life – therefore they cannot accept any reduction in their living standards PERIOD – even if it means destroying their own futures and that of their children’s…
    Oh deary me…
    Any of this sounding familiar Ha-ha-hamerikah?
    Be seeing you…
    PS: I’m off to France, Italy and Spain end-o-next week, so thoughts from there soon maybe?

  293. asia July 26, 2011 at 6:09 pm #

    ‘The Bay Area is America’s Yugoslavia because like
    the old Yugoslavia, all these merging ethnicities
    do NOT interact with the pre-existing Anglo
    culture and, indeed, they even try to do all their
    BUSINESS with people of their own tribe.’
    *****

  294. asia July 26, 2011 at 6:13 pm #

    THERES BEEN A SIMILAR THING IN WASH. D.C.
    Some of the black middle class was that way from cab licenses the rules were changed or the illegals
    started alot of ‘gypsy cabs’, I cant remember teh details.

  295. jackieblue2u July 26, 2011 at 6:14 pm #

    Grooooy !
    I agree, let’s lighten up & light up (ourselves.)
    Beams of light. Not on fire.
    hey I’m just beginning to see I’m on my way, not to San Jose. The trees are drawing me near I’ve got to find out why.
    Then comes the Actor who is ME.
    Fly little bird up into the clear blue sky.
    Our reasons are the same but there’s no one we can blame. (well sometimes there is).
    I think that it’s Nothing Personal, life that is.
    Don’t take it personally. You probably know what I mean.
    Okay on out into the daylight, Tuesday Afternoon it is ! White Bird must fly or she will die.
    xox

  296. asia July 26, 2011 at 6:19 pm #

    My realtor buddy tells me the tales of the Chinese In Silicon Valley….paying cash for million dollar homes………………………..
    but 10 or more people in the house, with cardboard boxes as toilets in each bedroom.
    ‘NO WAY WILL I SWIM IN A PUBLIC POOL HERE, WHO KNOWS IF THATS THE TOILET AS WELL
    Maybe someday Ill tell the tale of a dry cleaner…
    thats a tale!

  297. San Jose Mom 51 July 26, 2011 at 6:20 pm #

    Eleuthero,
    Perhaps you retired from De Anza. I’ve heard from friends that their caucasian kids feel isolated from the Asian majority. DeAnza transfers a number of kids to Berkeley after they graduate–or so I am told. Ironically, there is not much sense of shared community at the community college.
    Your post made me ponder our church community — obviously a self-selected group. It’s 95% WASP. We have a well-to-do black family and a family that the church is financially sponsoring from Sudan. One very active Chinese family. That’s about it.
    SJmom

  298. asia July 26, 2011 at 6:22 pm #

    Where can I get info on war/genocide in Africa over the 20th /21st century?

  299. asia July 26, 2011 at 6:28 pm #

    10$ at Intelius can maybe prevent those grifters from worming their way in.
    Or even a Google search on the persons name.
    That he borrowed money was a tip off..
    Book..see The Criminal mind” or ‘The mask of sanity’.

  300. San Jose Mom 51 July 26, 2011 at 6:28 pm #

    I seriously doubt that a family who pays millions for a house in the Bay Area is going to crap in a box. Sounds like an urban legend to me.
    I would, however, love to hear your story about the dry cleaner.
    SJmom

  301. asia July 26, 2011 at 6:32 pm #

    How did leftist Norway produce such a monster?

  302. ozone July 26, 2011 at 6:45 pm #

    Alex,
    Insightful posting on resource “markets” and a people “doing each others’ laundry”. ;o)
    Please keep us apprised on what you find in France, Italy and Spain. We’ll be most interested in what the “man on the street” is seeing and thinking! Thanks in advance.

  303. ozone July 26, 2011 at 6:47 pm #

    Ps. Evesdropping in dingy bars always proves most informative, in my wide experience. ;o)

  304. ozone July 26, 2011 at 6:57 pm #

    “…And you know me by now, O3 – ever hopeful and ever helpful – as I try to engage folks on CFN and elsewhere to make things better for:
    my family
    my state
    my country
    my Planet
    I think that if everyone on Earth would really try to do those things – in that order – that we might yet pull humanity back from extinction.
    But I do believe time is getting short.” -PoC
    Thanks, I appreciate your efforts, and, yes, it would be nice if just MORE folks would wake up to the straits we’re in. I’m much too cynical to think that pure altruism will make a big difference, but I certainly wouldn’t rain on your parade, ’cause ya never know….
    (As for the previous “subject”, the constant rejection of “scary things”, and blowing of sunshine and lollipops up our poop-chutes is not helpful. That’s “go back to sleep and don’t worry” bullshit that got us in the tight spot we’re in.)

  305. soak July 26, 2011 at 7:13 pm #

    I don’t know. Nobody knows anything. My guess is he didn’t hang out with leftists. He probably ran with the Michael Savage crowd: borders, language, culture. He was anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim. He was a white Christian terrorist.

  306. ozone July 26, 2011 at 7:13 pm #

    Nice respite, indeed!
    My buddy, Jay, shore ain’t as nice to look at, but he’s got “it”, if’n you know what I mean. He’s consistently amazed me as being able to play whatever the hell he hears in his head! (Being there when something original pops into his head and hands is a goosebump-raiser, if you like truly great players.) My next favorite guitar player ‘longside Jeff Beck; and I don’t say that lightly.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXbGBk5pVrI
    This one sounds great too…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW-9RToy6BI&feature=related

  307. soak July 26, 2011 at 7:16 pm #

    Nice thing about replying to you Ozone is the pressure is off. I know you won’t be reading anything I write because you scroll past my posts. So I feel like I can tell you with feeling embarrassed that I like you. You are a good person … as far as I can tell from your posts.

  308. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 7:39 pm #

    Soak doesn’t REALLY care about those other countries – or even the Black Race. The overwhelming passion of the Black Race is resentment and envy. He wants to pull us down. Beyond that, who cares? Isn’t that enough?
    You think the Black Millionaires of Nigeria and South Africa give a rat’s ass about the famine in the Horn of Africa? You’d be wrong. That’s what Whites are for.

  309. soak July 26, 2011 at 7:46 pm #

    Soak cares about Soak. It’s a love affair.

    “This is what you shall do; Love the earth and sun and the animals, despise riches, give alms to every one that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, hate tyrants, argue not concerning God, have patience and indulgence toward the people, take off your hat to nothing known or unknown or to any man or number of men, go freely with powerful uneducated persons and with the young and with the mothers of families, read these leaves in the open air every season of every year of your life, re-examine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul, and your very flesh shall be a great poem and have the richest fluency not only in its words but in the silent lines of its lips and face and between the lashes of your eyes and in every motion and joint of your body.” — Walt Whitman

  310. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 7:50 pm #

    I’m only an expert on Black atrocities. There’s a tremendous amount about South Africa of course. But you want to know about the Mau Mau’s and the transvestite boy warriors of Sierra Leone with their teddy bear back packs.
    Some say the Belgians killed a million or more Blacks in the Congo. It may well be.
    Black soldiers are still eating Pygmies in the jungles of Zaire.
    But one source for all of it? Don’t know about that. There has been so much.

  311. lbendet July 26, 2011 at 7:52 pm #

    E.:the faith of foreigners to get SIMPLE THINGS done in this country is being badly bruised.
    It sure is, they basically feel they can’t trust us and we’re busy running around the world making it abundantly clear that our banksters don’t want to lose a dollar in any of the havoc we’ve wreaked upon the world. Just let us come in there and privatize…
    We the people are in the same boat as the foreigners.
    -______________
    Alexandra made some points I thought were right on target about our inability to create wealth since we have given up manufacturing. We are turning into a third world backwater.

  312. Vlad Krandz July 26, 2011 at 7:58 pm #

    Ever hear the story of the Holy Man and the prostitute? Every night he walked by scorning her in his mind and every night she looked up to him in her’s. In their next life, they exchanged identities since we become what we focus on.
    I’m afraid that I’m going to become you!

  313. soak July 26, 2011 at 8:21 pm #

    Touche! Well played, old chap!

  314. BeantownBill July 26, 2011 at 8:47 pm #

    Right, but it probably won’t be us (USA)that does it. We’ve fucking killed our space program, the one thing that might have saved us. Maybe private industry will take up the slack.
    Let’s see. We landed on the moon in 1969 and the last time a human set forth there was what, 1973?
    We never implemented the Dyna-Soar, a workable space plane design from the ’60’s (maybe even 1959). Instead we developed the space shuttle, a rather poor design, as a cheaper compromise.
    We’ve all but killed the Webb Space Telescope program, the successor to the Hubble telescope.
    We’ve killed some ambitious space exploration prototypes before they began.
    Where could we be now if for the past 42 years NASA had an annual operating budget of $50-60 billion in 2011 dollars?
    Ah, well, such is life.
    And if anyone here asks so what? or who cares? You are too stupid to reply to.

  315. BeantownBill July 26, 2011 at 8:59 pm #

    I think where we find ourselves today was ordained when we developed a large forebrain and opposable thumbs. Carthage could have defeated Rome, but we’d still be in the same position as we are now, only with the names of countries or empires different.
    Science is an extremely potent tool or way of thinking, and not properly proceeding with caution might just do us in. It is this hubris, this blindness in the face of danger that is the root issue, not nationalism, globalism, political parties, greedy elites or races. Perhaps this is our biggest flaw.
    Or perhaps this is our greatest asset?

  316. soak July 26, 2011 at 9:00 pm #

    Bush (as in George W Bush) destroyed the United States. Manufacturing’s share of the US economy, as measured by real GDP, was stable from the 1940s until Bush took office. During that entire time, the ratio of manufacturing output to GDP ranged from 16 to 19%. Bush ended all that and helped his friends send the factories to China. His rich friends got richer. China got richer. The USA was destroyed by Bush.
    The manufacturing share of the USA economy dropped from 16% in 2000 (when Bush was selected) and dropped to 13% in 2008 when Bush left the country in the ditch.
    For comparison with other developing or developed countries in 2008:
    India (15%)
    Mexico (18%)
    Canada (13%)
    Spain (14%)
    Russia (15%)
    Japan (21%)
    China (32%, thank you W.)
    Korea (25%)

  317. rippedthunder July 26, 2011 at 9:07 pm #

    BLOOOOOOW me away, sum bitch, that was a storm. We had a heck of a blow. The folks east of us got slammed again, maybe another tornado. I’ve been ‘roun these parts for 50+ years and have never seen a streak of weather like this. Is it Global warming and changing weather patterns? Who knows? It is kind of strange though.

  318. soak July 26, 2011 at 9:22 pm #

    Beneficiaries need to know that payments will continue, regardless of the Congressional discussion over an agreement to raise the nation’s debt limit. Without Social Security benefits, unprecedented hardship would befall millions of Americans who rely on these earned benefits to pay for life necessities such as food, medications, utilities, and shelter.” –AARP letter to Obama

    Now that we are one week away from default somebody is realizing that the Tea Party / Republican intent is to balance the budget on the backs of millions of senior citizens and disabled citizens.
    It is about time people start to wake up and vote out the Tea Party freshmen and Republican extremists … if they still have the means to get to the voting booth … and if they are not denied their right to vote through Republican voter suppression techniques.

  319. rippedthunder July 26, 2011 at 9:38 pm #

    Greetings Auntie, Ol’ Uncle Ned is forgiven. We all have our moments, I’ve gone overboard here before on some of my fellow CFN friends and regreted it later. All things must pass. Shrooms you say! haha, that brings back some memories! I think it does anyway???????

  320. rippedthunder July 26, 2011 at 9:49 pm #

    BTB, I agree, I think cold fusion is a bunch of huha. Electricity finds the shortest route to ground. Basic and simple. If the universe ran on cold fusion the earth would be a VERY cold place to live. We’ll see soon .

  321. rippedthunder July 26, 2011 at 9:55 pm #

    R U Experienced, classic O3 , how did U and Vlad set that up? Do you sit in together? U guys are like Jagger and Richards!

  322. rippedthunder July 26, 2011 at 10:08 pm #

    Howdy o3, ya gotta love the sound of the ol’ Fenders. Strats are cool. I’ve got a 72 Tele. The shredders are impressive but I feel there is no real expression in the playing. That’s just me though.

  323. Cavepainter July 26, 2011 at 10:18 pm #

    I’m astounded by how many posters to this site haven’t yet come to terms with the situation faced by humankind. Mother nature has drawn a line in the sand and it doesn’t demarcate between the worthy and unworthy according to anthropocentric notions of social justice.
    Mother nature doesn’t make any special considerations to humankind any more that she does to the tsetse fly, and certainly not along lines of distinction we might draw between tribal orders. Remember, we’re not dealing with the likes of Mother Teresa, or the Dali Lama, or Desmond Tutu, or any other icon personifying human compassion. Mother nature doesn’t give a rip for weighty abstracts of law that might be arbitrated in an international court — all that is irrelevant from this point on.
    Why? Because a threshold was crossed at sometime in the near past when human numbers exceeded carrying capacity, the consequences of which unfold in messy fashion – lacking the order of, say, a Congressional hearing on national budget.
    Get over it!
    Humans have been programmed by evolution with a particular set of specie specific behavior having nothing to do with skin coloration, religious affiliation, ethnicity, culture, etc. It’s a formulation that got us this far in the course of evolution but now might prove dysfunctional.
    All the species that have “hit the wall” (became extinct) testifies to how random fate is. None of the traits that serve as markers of “us” as opposed to “them” will determine who (or what nation) survives the inevitable die-off. From this point on it is pure coincidence of what spots on earth haven’t yet exceeded carrying capacity (and with global warming prospect all is dicey at best).
    So forget about redistributing populations and/or resources. Doing so will only calibrate down survival prospect for those places that might (just might) retain some prospect of survival for humankind.
    The problem of overpopulation exploded in just the past century. Arguing over who aggravated the situation by overconsumption, imperialism, etc., etc., is now completely irrelevant. All that counts now for dim prospect of spotty survival of humankind is arresting overpopulation where some semblance of balance remains. The US remains one of those spots, let’s not blow it with vain notions of being exempt from the lessons of history.

  324. progress,conserve July 26, 2011 at 10:23 pm #

    “We ended up in Venice, where the water taxies were on strike. We worked out other (more expensive) arrangments. Lots of empty storefronts in Italy.
    My international travel career is officially over.
    From now on it’s National Parks.”
    -sjmom-
    Hey SJ, and welcome back home. You know what they say, right? “Travel broadens the mind.”
    You must have flown into Europe, taken a cruise ship, and traveled from port to port. There’s a whole lot to be said for that. And certain things pretty much have to be seen by nautical means. The Panama Canal. The Strait of Gibraltar. The Greek Islands.
    After some fairly intense travels in our time, my wife and I have probably graduated ourselves to cruise ships for our international travel from now on, ourselves.
    Come hell, high water, economic collapse, or meteor strikes – being on a ship with full fuel load and a captain and crew dedicated to returning their “cargo that complains” (TM BHMarc) back to the US no matter what – That’s what we’re going to be going for – if we can’t take our own boat.
    ———————
    And yeah, yeah, travel is wasteful – cruise ships are awful – and all that blah, blah.
    ================
    On an unrelated note – I visited a relatively small local grocery store, in another town, over the weekend. They had a sign next to the bathroom light switch that stated, “Our electric bill was $102,847.23 last year – Please turn out the light when you leave.”
    That much power represents a pretty good pile of coal burned by Georgia Power. I was very surprised at the amount – for one small American local grocery store.
    Makes cruise ship travel sound a little bit better.
    And I did turn out that light.

  325. loveday July 26, 2011 at 10:23 pm #

    Hi Dolan
    Ya I did sign off, but mainly because most of these people don’t seem interested in things like a decent future. Sorry, I get a little impatient. Anyway thanks for a reasonable response. Gerald Celente is absolutely aware of what is happening and yes he did predict, or state that he thought a new power source would become available. And yes he does say we will have a complete economic collapse, but that is not the same as the “real economy”, that consists of real people who live or die. They are not made of paper, as most stock markets are. That being said, energy is required to actually produce things that support life, so therefore, a new energy source to produce a living, that is food for people to live on, is actually fabulous!
    Maybe Andrea Rossi’s cold fusion will work out or not. But like I wrote earlier a plant has been set up and it has been put out there in public that this company, Defkalion, will produce household units by this fall. If possible I will buy a unit.
    I get your point, energy wasn’t a problem in the 1930’s depression, however, today energy is a prime driving factor, read Dmitry Orlov, he believes that as oil runs out so will the US run out of ways to keep the country running ( the dollar is really supported by oil, not gold). Well oil is just a power source, if that can be replaced with a new power source this country and the world can maybe keep things bearable for the general population. After all, eating is a really desireable thing, that takes energy input, so if the farmer can plant crops and harvest them without paying 3 to 5 dollars a gallon for gas food prices will probably be affordable. I don’t say they will be, but, it is far more likely.
    Now, I’m really, really signing off for the week.

  326. rippedthunder July 26, 2011 at 10:24 pm #

    So, a guy walks into a bar he has never been in.
    Down at the end of the bar he sees a chimpanzee in a cage.
    He asks the bartender ” What’s up with the monkey in the cage?”
    “It’s kinda complicated, you really don’t wanna know.”
    After about an hour and 4 or 5 beers the guy says to the bartender,”My curiosity is killin’ me, What’s up with the monkey in the cage?”
    “Well if you really gotta know, I’ll show ya”
    He opens the cage, the chimp gets out, the bartender smacks him in the back of the head with a baseball bat and the chimp jumps down on the floor and gives the bartender a blowjob.
    The drunk looks on wide-eyed and says ” WOW thats really somthin!”
    The bartender says ” You wanna give it a try?”
    The drunk says” Hell ya, just don’t hit me so hard!”

  327. soak July 26, 2011 at 10:38 pm #

    Mikhail Gorbachev gets up in the morning and goes out onto his balcony to get some fresh air. The sun is rising. “Good morning, red sun!” he exclaims.
    “Long live Mikhail Gorbachev!” the sun replies.
    Very happy with this, Gorbachev goes about his business. After a busy morning he goes out onto his favorite balcony again, and sees the sun at its height.
    “Good afternoon, sun!” he shouts out.
    “Long live Comrade Gorbachev, General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union!” replies the sun. Very pleased, Gorbachev returns to his work.
    That evening, after a hard day, he comes out once again onto his favorite balcony. He sees the sun setting, and with a smile cries out, “Good evening, my little sun!”
    “I am in the West now,” replies the sun, “so FUCK YOU!”

  328. San Jose Mom 51 July 26, 2011 at 10:52 pm #

    I know that we burned a whole lot of oil on our vacation. Our family dynamics are such that had we travelled through Europe by car (of course I would do all the driving), we would have changed hotels all the time and everyone would give me advice on how to drive…yada, yada, yada. If my husband drove, we would never find a parking place or be able to merge onto an autobahn. (German drivers are quite aggressive.)
    I have a “make my day” approach to finding parking spots in crowded cities. My city driving style is not for the wimpy. My specialty is the California U-ie. My teenagers yell NO, MOM, NO!
    I send telepathic messages to other drivers vying for parking spots “I’m driving a 2004 minivan and I don’t give a sh&t.” Even so, I haven’t received a speeding ticket since 1997. No one suspects trouble because I drive a minivan.
    OK I’m blabbering. In summation, if we had driven through Europe, there would have been a whole lot of hollering.
    In my next life, I’m going to be a New York cabbie.

  329. turkle July 26, 2011 at 11:08 pm #

    “the one thing that might have saved us”
    How so?

  330. turkle July 26, 2011 at 11:14 pm #

    “The Bay Area is America’s Yugoslavia blah blah blah”
    You’re a fool.

  331. turkle July 26, 2011 at 11:28 pm #

    “all these merging ethnicities
    do NOT interact with the pre-existing Anglo
    culture”
    You far overstate your point. Out of all the places in the US, the Bay Area is the most racially harmonious and integrated that I have visited (lived there for 6 years).
    Of course, different ethnicities DO interact with each other, all the time, from all the multi-racial couples you see walking around, to frequenting each other’s businesses, working with each other, etc. If you go to any Silicon Valley business, please take note of all the different people’s races and how they manage to get along just fine.
    I went to the Safeway other day where a polite Indian man worked the lunch counter, a tall white man was stocking shelves, a black woman was at the register, and a Hispanic bagged the groceries. Again, what’s the fucking problem? This is 2011, not 1950.
    I don’t understand where you get the idea that most foreigners or minorities want to close themselves off and not interact with their society. In my experience, it simply is not true for the vast majority.
    Additionally, who is to say that the existing culture is Anglo? It is what it is, not some incarnation of a wet dream you had about Leave It To Beaver, nor should it be.
    Or do you sense that the Great California Race War is one “fried chicken and watermelon comment” away?
    “now around 44% Asian”
    Oh, no, stop the presses! The Bay Area isn’t 95% white people. Somebody call the Race Police.
    Anyways, these Asian people are mostly fine in my experience, generally law-abiding, polite, respectful, and intelligent. And Asians have fantastically good cuisine/restaurants.
    What exactly do you bring to the table, besides a bunch of paranoid whining about people who are different than you?

  332. xhalor July 26, 2011 at 11:28 pm #

    This is it, kids. We are about to split into grotesquely rich and grotesquely poor for a long, long, time.
    Now, if you will excuse me, I have to go do a little jail time for not being able to pay my smoking in public violation. Yes! $229 plus court costs (they make you appear if you don’t have the money).
    Maybe I’ll get to meet Angelo Mozilo.
    Cheers,
    Blythe Sniffington

  333. turkle July 26, 2011 at 11:38 pm #

    “Nobody Knows Anything”
    I am getting bored and annoyed with Jim’s conceit that he is the only one who knows what is going on in the world, which is an absurd posture.
    Peak Oil and Climate Change have been coming on and off the radar for the last 10 years. Many people are aware of these two issues and some deeply so. With the steep rises in gasoline recently, most people are fully aware of our dependency on fossil fuels.
    And almost all Americans with a pulse know that their country is massively in debt and that the financial system is also burdened by huge debts and instability, not to mention outright criminality and fraud. Problems with the viability of pension systems have been front-page news around the world for years, as has the financial crisis in Europe. etc.
    Then there are those who do know but don’t care (the apathetic…count me in).
    And still others know but are keeping their knowledge private to avoid panic (Obama and other higher ups, I suspect) or for personal profit.
    I mean really, Jim, you’re pretty sharp and all, and I like the columns. But you’re not exactly a Cassandra out in the wilderness at this point.
    Hell, Catton covered this shit in Overshoot like 30 years ago. Most other similar books are a footnote.

  334. jackieblue2u July 26, 2011 at 11:51 pm #

    Yes, having children is very challenging. I oughta know since I did not have any, and am not going to.
    I KNEW I couldn’t handle the stress of it.
    I WAS ONE and I remember it all too well.
    There are alot of con men out there. out for what they can get. they USE people. and women also for that matter.
    Women with kids have to be especially careful who they let into the lives of their children.
    I hope she got off the drugs.
    Alcohol and cigs are the gateway drugs,then Pot.
    Pot is a psychedelic, and meth and crack are very very hard on the body, and the mind. They aren’t psychedelic. They KILL. And they induce paranoia, and can cause one to kill, especially if unstable to begin with.
    I do not care what others say. I also studied this subject extensively. Meth is the worst. Crack also.
    Opiates are easy to O.D. on. so they are dangerous in that way.
    It IS peer pressure that gets them started usually.
    I hope she straightens out.
    Hugs not Drugs.

  335. turkle July 26, 2011 at 11:52 pm #

    To all the starry-eyed dreamers, I hate to burst your bubbles (well I rather like it actually), but space exploration is NOT going to save us from ourselves. And it never could. Space is cold, hostile, and empty and not fit for human habitation. The other planets in this solar system do not have breathable atmospheres, which kinda means that living there en masse is a no go, unless the planet was terraformed. The technology to transform a planet in such a way in a reasonable timescale simply does not exist, nor are the planets around our sun particularly suited for it. Mars would be the only good possibility, but do we have thousands of years to wait (at a minimum)? This isn’t Total Recall, where Mars gets an atmosphere in time to save Arnold from asphyxiation.
    As for other star systems, the closest is over 4 light years away. A light year is the distance that light travels in a year. That is so far as to be practically insurmountable by any known propulsion method available to us. We have not come even close to making something that would be fast enough that travel across such distances would be possible, let alone feasible.
    Oh, and just run the numbers. The amount of people that would need to be exported to “save” the earth from a human population crisis would be in the multi-millions (at a minimum).
    What is the cheap, low-cost, low-energy, safe solution that would magically transport these millions of people out of the earth’s gravity well and to the Martian space dock? This technology doesn’t exist, and it never will.
    People are wishful thinkers (not to mention generally gullible). On that point, I agree with Jim. They see something on Star Trek or some other teevee show and think it is possible. But it ain’t necessarily so.
    No, we were always going to sink or swim right here on this pale blue dot. Space never was and never could have saved us from ourselves.

  336. soak July 26, 2011 at 11:55 pm #

    Welcome back, Turkle. It’s like homecoming today!

  337. trippticket July 27, 2011 at 12:00 am #

    In my opinion cigarettes and alcohol are the worst of the bunch. Cigarettes grip the user with an iron fist of addiction. Took me several tries to finally kick the habit 4 years ago, and I have a pretty strong will.
    Crack and meth are obviously up there too, but not nearly as accessible as the previous two, so I have to dock them a point.

  338. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 12:06 am #

    How do you feel about automobile exhaust? Or all of the damage that is caused by metal finishing? In Los Angeles autopsies have been done on ten year old children with permanent lung damage from breathing the AIR.

  339. Buck Stud July 27, 2011 at 12:07 am #

    That reminds me of the “Old Snakebite Joke”:
    A rattlesnake bites Johnny on his Johnson.
    “Don’t panic,” says Johnny’s camping pal, “My trusty medical manual’ll tell us what to do.” (The manual prescribes cutting an X on the snake bite, then sucking out the venom.) The befuddled pal keeps re-reading the advice to himself.
    “What’s it say?” asks Johnny, panicking.
    “Says you’re going to die.”

  340. jackieblue2u July 27, 2011 at 12:12 am #

    I know 4 people who are afraid to make left hand turns. they will make 3 rights. one is my husband, when he was driving. other than that he was a really good driver.
    Parking lots were frustrating with him, he would drive right by the close ones thinking he wasn’t gonna get one, then yell at me when i pointed it out.
    I think of myself as not aggressive but assertive.
    and now I find myself parking farther away, because parking lots seem to be unsafe easy places to get backed into, and vice versa.
    I still do those U turns also. When I feel lucky. drives him nuts. The tix are $$$ tho so I really need to cool it.
    Never been to NY, but I could be a cabbie there also, yelling at folks, and getting paid for it.
    New York ain’t for wimps.
    🙂

  341. trippticket July 27, 2011 at 12:15 am #

    Just stopping by to say that what time I’m spending on the forums these days, and it’s admittedly a lot less than I was spending here, is being spent at The Archdruid Report. It’s a moderated board so there’s pretty much zero instant gratification, but it keeps the trolls out. Always fine, relevant discussion there too, without all the vitriol and flame-baiting. This week there are already over 200 comments so it’s an active and educational place to hang. You get 1000 or so a week here, but 4 out of 5 are pointless, hate-filled, or complete scroll-over territory, so think of TADR as CFN with more relevant posts, better advice, and less monkey spunk. Tired of all the monkey spunk. And I’m not the only CFNer hanging out over there.
    Just an invitation to those who are looking for something more serious as the clock approaches midnight…

  342. jackieblue2u July 27, 2011 at 12:15 am #

    I noticed that when I am on road trips I get really ‘spacey.’ and I know it’s from the exhaust.
    Can’t wait to wash it all off me when I get where I am going. Maybe that is what ‘makes’ some people road rage more than others ?
    I was in LA 30 years ago, got off the plane and my eyes started stinging. Stayed in Torrance, couldn’t wait to get back north. That was back then. Can only imagine now.
    Cars are dirty and dangerous. A big responsibility. for sure.

  343. metuselah July 27, 2011 at 12:16 am #

    It is this hubris, this blindness in the face of danger that is the root issue, not nationalism, globalism, political parties, greedy elites or races. Perhaps this is our biggest flaw.
    Or perhaps this is our greatest asset?
    ==
    Yes, it’s hubris, tied in to criminality. It’s the conceit of the criminal mind, thinking it has pulled off a con of the rest of us suckers. In truth, the criminal mind has really pulled a con on itself. Through its criminal acts it has robbed the opportunity for others to further our collective knowledge and advance.
    This is in essence why, for example, racism is criminal, the government is criminal, hoarding is criminal, copyright laws are criminal, monopolies are criminal, and on and on.

  344. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 12:18 am #

    It was a lot worse before the advent of unleaded gasoline.

  345. Buck Stud July 27, 2011 at 12:25 am #

    Soak and Vlad have formed a mutual admiration society, and Jackie, the recalcitrant motorist, talks about whipping U-turns. It’s homecoming day alright, and the Bizarre Float rolls into Crazytown yet again.

  346. turkle July 27, 2011 at 12:39 am #

    “Can only imagine now.”
    It hear it is better now due to strict California car emission laws.

  347. rippedthunder July 27, 2011 at 12:41 am #

    yo Tripp, I see u could not get off the CFN crack addiction.;o) you are right. I know u are a former smoker. butts are the worst. I quit 5 years ago because of a heart issue. I’m glad I did. If everybody quit and the butts were made illegal the health industry would go belly up. Tobacco is good for the economy!

  348. soak July 27, 2011 at 12:44 am #

    Thanks for the invite, Tripp. How do they feel over there about techno miracles? Closed minds. Complete denial. Harsh on the doomster buzz?

  349. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 12:45 am #

    Certainly good for oncologists.

  350. rippedthunder July 27, 2011 at 12:53 am #

    if they made tobacco taboo the hospitals would be in dire trouble. There would be a black market but the smoke rates would go way down. Very, very, bad for the health buisness, which is No. 1 in the good ol’ USA

  351. Vlad Krandz July 27, 2011 at 1:38 am #

    Asoka is a remarkable man in spite of his thick lips and penchant for poverty pimping. How many of you White Liberals have gone all around the world living with men of every color and belief?
    When I was young, I knew a guy who been many places. When I got a little older, I realized that he was just traveling to the hippy party spots like Goa, Hawaii, certain Greek Islands and just doing the same party scene. He had never gone anywhere.
    Asoka isn’t like this. The stories he could tell but he doesn’t seem to be a storyteller. Oh well his mind is in a different mode.

  352. Vlad Krandz July 27, 2011 at 1:42 am #

    Kunstler is our Jim Kirk. And you are Dr McCoy: totally focused on the nitty gritty of someone’s colon and totally closed to the beauty and significance of the universe.
    Tripp is Spock – the complete opposite.

  353. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 1:46 am #

    I’ve heard some postulate that if it weren’t for tobacco, the English may have lost interest in exploring that part of North America any further.
    My favorite comment on tobacco is Dickie Smothers relating how this was a gift from the indigenous Americans, “Here White Man. Rot yer lungs.”

  354. damnyeitsafinepet July 27, 2011 at 1:52 am #

    I was down in Centralia, doing a little book shopping, at Lewis Lucan Books, of course, and LLB recommended the Archdruid Report, too. It’s not nearly as funny as CFN but it does offer a good comment thread w/r/t TLE. Worth a look.
    DYFP
    Cascadia

  355. asia July 27, 2011 at 2:03 am #

    The Dry Cleaner …
    His dad was in the business of selling DC supplies
    and as he saw Koreans come in to the biz [citywide]
    He knew he had to GET OUT as Ktown does business with Ktown and they wouldnt be buying supplies from whites.
    So they sold and he worked as an employee of Koreans….’They had us whites entering thru a different door and bowing to the owner, they spoke in korean but id hear ‘SBA loan’ in their conversation.’
    He was sure glad he saw it coming and got out.

  356. asia July 27, 2011 at 2:10 am #

    To borrow a line from John Hiatt:
    HES TOO DUMB TO HAVE A CHOICE
    BREAKING NEWS…………On the radio…
    Hate crimes on the rise,
    sham marriage ring broken up,
    City is too broke for some daycare,
    Gov signs Dream act[$for illegals but not citizens].

  357. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 2:16 am #

    Me & my El Salvadoran friend (who shall remain anonymous) once had a custom T-Shirt buisness. First, we were undercut by local Mexican shirt makers, but then, the Koreans undercut the Mexicans.
    There was much rejoicing until Luis and I realized that we were out of business.

  358. asia July 27, 2011 at 2:21 am #

    OK………….where on web/wiki can I read about?
    Im sensing Lamestream media is a bit racist..
    70 blonds dead= big news.
    Millions in darfur Dead = no news.
    Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin wrote books..
    circa 1970…One entry in book said :
    ‘I read the NY Daily News Headlines:
    BLOND MURDERED IN THE BRONX
    BELOW in small letters:
    6000 die is earthquake in South America..
    GEE I WONDER WHAT COLOR HAIR THEY HAD!
    Abbie and Jerry were…different!

  359. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 2:25 am #

    Concrete Blonde.

  360. asia July 27, 2011 at 2:27 am #

    That was ProC’s writing……..
    Pro, Trolkle called you a fool!

  361. asia July 27, 2011 at 2:28 am #

    Where?
    when?

  362. turkle July 27, 2011 at 2:29 am #

    What kind of idiocy is this? Just because you want something to be possible doesn’t make it so.
    The more one learns about space, the less likely large scale exploration and colonization by humans looks possible. I’m sorry if that hurts your feelings, but the big lonely universe has a way of doing that to the unrealistic among us.
    Now, robots could be another story. They can go to sleep for 200 years and wake up when they arrive. They also don’t need air and food like us, not to mention they don’t deteriorate in the absence of gravity.

  363. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 2:30 am #

    Here?
    Now?

  364. turkle July 27, 2011 at 2:30 am #

    My bad….but you quoted it. *shrugs*

  365. asia July 27, 2011 at 2:30 am #

    Me no understand!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Thats a rock group from the 80s, yes?

  366. turkle July 27, 2011 at 2:32 am #

    “Millions in darfur Dead = no news”
    I’m not sure what planet you’re from, but Darfur has made the national/international news many times, not to mention become a cause celebre of many rich and famous people.

  367. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 2:33 am #

    No.
    Yes was a rock group from the ’70’s.

  368. turkle July 27, 2011 at 2:34 am #

    “totally closed to the beauty and significance of the universe”
    Geesus, you are the king of false assumptions and irrelevant insults. Just because the universe is beautiful and significant (I agree) doesn’t mean we can settle out there like motherfucking George Jetson, ya bitch.

  369. turkle July 27, 2011 at 2:39 am #

    “Hate crimes on the rise”
    These don’t occur very often. The vast majority of people go about their business without harming anyone.
    If you want to get all paranoid and sullen about a few bad apples, that’s fine by me. But you can count me out.

  370. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 2:40 am #

    To the moon, Alice!

  371. Eleuthero July 27, 2011 at 2:42 am #

    WageLaborer said:
    The only “charities” the rich spend on are right wing think tanks spewing out anti-worker propaganda, to make people think that slitting our own throats will make our lives better.
    The only investments they’ve made are in factories in other countries.
    And now they’re sitting on two trillion dollars that they cannot invest or spend.
    ****************************************************
    It’s not like this is historically new. It’s
    just that the high tax rates on plutocrats
    were a “damper” on their imperial ambitions
    from Thomas Jefferson until the execreble
    Ronald Reagan took that damper off.
    The purpose of government in civilized nations
    is strictly to be a GOVERNOR which, as you know,
    has a dual meaning in Webster’s dictionary as
    a DAMPER. When they’re doing their job, they
    keep excesses in check … private and public.
    Government has done a SHITTY job of damping
    private malfeasance since Reagan and we got
    an out-of-control Defense Industry followed
    by many other out-of-control industries like
    banking, insurance, and healthcare providers
    who charge you $45 for a freakin’ aspirin.
    Government is one of those “necessary evils”
    in life but in whose absence we obtain far
    greater evils … which is now as obvious as
    the nose on my face.
    E.

  372. asia July 27, 2011 at 2:43 am #

    You take me literally.
    How about this, How many blacks were killed in USA and Africa in the last week?
    Wheres the outcry over that?
    Id say its more than 80.
    When 80 blondies get killed, Makes World News.

  373. asia July 27, 2011 at 2:47 am #

    Wage is a member of the ACLU, By this line of thought it must be one of the rightwing thinktanks.

  374. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 2:48 am #

    Yeah, until they piss too many of us off.

  375. Eleuthero July 27, 2011 at 2:48 am #

    MD said:
    We were told these deficits were necessary due to a crisis in 2008. But we have also been told the crisis is over. That our economy is recovering. That Wall Street is “healthy.” That the banks are “ok” and “well-capitalized.
    ***************************************************
    You’re “drinking the kool-aid”, MD. The idea that
    we’re “healthy” is classic propaganda which can be
    maintained because the FASB has declared that the
    banking industry can AVOID mark-to-market
    accounting which allows them to lie through their
    teeth.
    You MUST catch such nuances else you will be
    a doe-eyed victim of all kinds of propagandistic
    chicanery from these felons. Obama, flawed as
    he is, did NOT create this mess but he’s left
    to deal with it.
    His idea to tax the super-rich is superb and will
    recoup monies STOLEN from the American people in
    this “socialize the losses and privatize the
    gains” era. I’m not his biggest supporter but in
    this budget battle he is surely, to my mind, much
    less a liar than the execreble Boehner whom I
    would like to punch in the face.
    E.

  376. Eleuthero July 27, 2011 at 2:57 am #

    Vlad said:
    You are a de facto White Nationalist since you value our culture and understand that genes carry memes. Unlike me, you don’t believe it to be intrinsic but only circumstancial, but it is enough. After all we don’t have the power to acculturate these people. With what? Womyn’s studies? Porn TV? Foreign Affair’s Magazine? Why should they give up their ancient cultures for alot of crap? Why change for a Nation that’s clearly dying and wont outlive their children’s youth?
    ****************************************************
    I deplore Women’s Studies, Black Studies, or
    any other programs that seek to invent excuses
    for why there aren’t that many female scientists
    or why blacks commit violent crimes at 5X-10X
    the rates of other ethnicities. You are aware
    that I don’t believe most liberals are HONEST
    about issues of race and it shows in their
    choice of FRIENDS, whom they have OUTINGS with,
    and where they choose to LIVE.
    Like you, I deplore the fact that Anglos appear
    to have a “death wish” and are actively
    participating in the death of eurocentric culture
    by adopting the WORST aspects of black fashion,
    speech, and decorum as a form of “hipness”.
    Yet that same eurocentric culture created
    virtually ALL of the technologies and conveniences
    that non-Anglos line up to buy by the drove.
    Trust me, Vlad … I follow your debates and
    your detractors frequently. Many of them are
    liberals whose opinions on many matters I
    respect but I do not think many of these same
    liberals reflect on the LACK of “people of
    color” in their own lives and what that means.
    It means they’re fooling their own selves about
    their REAL points of view.
    E.

  377. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 3:01 am #

    I’ve done some consultations. There’s a theory that much of the USA’s currency muddlings (QE1, QE2) may be an attempt to get China to un-peg the Yuan from the US Dollar. Defaulting on the Federal debt? Well, that oughta do it.
    By all means, let’s get all those factories running while the permafrost is melting in Siberia.

  378. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 3:05 am #

    Damn, I forgot to mention, there’s more than one way to fight a war.
    Wishfully,
    Madonna

  379. turkle July 27, 2011 at 3:44 am #

    How else should I take you, sir, aside from literally?
    With a grain of salt?

  380. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 3:45 am #

    “After all we don’t have the power to acculturate these people.”
    Go here
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

  381. cheekychews July 27, 2011 at 3:47 am #

    Testing, testing … do HTML tags in a post send it to the moderation black hole?

  382. cheekychews July 27, 2011 at 3:48 am #

    It appears so!

  383. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 3:54 am #

    Not quite. You are in the bitbucket pending peer approval.

  384. turkle July 27, 2011 at 3:56 am #

    Seventy-odd Norwegians being gunned down on a small island by a crazed, Christian, lunatic claiming to be a Knights Templar is out of the ordinary. In fact, I can’t remember the last time this happened.
    Black people dying in Africa is not. People have gotten news fatigue about Darfur, Somalia, Congo, Jamaica, etc. Or at least they are bored. People are dying there all the time, so it is simply ordinary. They tend to die in such uninteresting ways, too, like starvation.
    Plus, there aren’t as many TV cameras in Africa or local network news stations, for that matter. But I’m sure if you turn on Africa Today or whatever, you can get your fill.
    Seriously though, I think it mostly has to do with access, not racism. What news reporter wants to go deep into the Congo to report a murder or three? You can count me out.

  385. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 4:05 am #

    Maybe, just maybe, this is not what it appears to be. Is it possible that the United Snakes & it’s allies have crippled Al Qaeda so severely that this is the best response that they have for killing their titular head? And how ’bout the patsy? Wish I could spend the rest of my life on the French Riviera.
    Think of it. Not only will we deny you the crime, but we will steal your thunder in the popular media also. Bitchez.

  386. turkle July 27, 2011 at 4:06 am #

    Color me confused.

  387. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 4:11 am #

    Sorry dude. Clearly, I’ve been to too many tactical briefings.

  388. old69 July 27, 2011 at 4:54 am #

    “I recommend, if one is sincerely serious about finding Truth, to seek it, long for it, be receptive when It answers or reveals Itself to you.”
    Hey Clown, THERE IS NO TRUTH, ONLY LIES. OUR MIND IS ALWAYS WRONG.
    Hey San Jose Mommy, Did you ph*k ? Did you your HOT and HORNY teenage girl slut ph*k ? Because if you all did, you sinned and god will beat the living daylights out of you, just like he will beat the living daylights out of everyone. He must hate your guts and everyone elses guts so much because you ph*k. Also, if you did, why did you do that to me ? Why did you punish me ? Didn’t I say that no one shall ph*k from now on, since I can’t ? Isn’t that clear ? You beat me up doing that, you did something very bad to me, you killed me because I am Jealous, Envious, Angry with Rage (because I am a Pussy Whip, Impotent (in all manners, sexual, psychological, physical, you name it) and a Shrinking Violet, Anonymous Coward) that you dare do that. Ok ? Got the message ?
    Hey Bustin J, what is it with you anti-religious stuff ? Are you crazy or what ? And why did you substitute the good old fashioned craporola of Krist and God and Heaven and Hell and the Fundamentalist or Catholic or Muslim or Jewish Crap and Bull Sh*t with another religion, this time worshiping “Nature” ? Don’t you understand that we should kill Nature and beat the living daylights out of it ? Isn’t that clear ? Don’t you know that we must destroy it all and change it all and manipulate it completely by building trillions of skyscrapers, Atom energy, Mind over Matter, Rockets to Mars, Giant Cadillacs, Pollution of all kinds, wild chemicals, and all such nice and beautiful and spiritual items that are not made up of Carbon Chemistry, that avoid Carbon atoms, since CARBON ATOMS ARE THE MARK OF THE BEAST ? Is that now clear to you ?
    You are completely crazy with this religious paranoia of the guy having glue in his mind, wow, and I though that there was something wrong with me, go figure…

  389. old69 July 27, 2011 at 5:02 am #

    From:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=175880
    From:
    http://kunstler.com/blog/2011/07/nobody-knows-anything.html
    “I recommend, if one is sincerely serious about finding Truth, to seek it, long for it, be receptive when It answers or reveals Itself to you.”
    I (a non existent internet entity that just generates blocks of text) answer:
    Hey Clown, THERE IS NO TRUTH, ONLY LIES. OUR MIND IS ALWAYS WRONG.
    Hey San Jose Mommy, Did you ph*k ? Did your HOT and HORNY teenage girl slut ph*k ? Because if you all did, you sinned and god will beat the living daylights out of you, just like he will beat the living daylights out of everyone. He must hate your guts and everyone elses guts so much because you ph*k. Also, if you did, why did you do that to me ? Why did you punish me ? Didn’t I say that no one shall ph*k from now on, since I can’t ? Isn’t that clear ? You beat me up doing that, you did something very bad to me, you killed me because I am Jealous, Envious, Angry with Rage (because I am a Pussy Whip, Impotent (in all manners, sexual, psychological, physical, you name it) and a Shrinking Violet, Anonymous Coward) that you dare do that. Ok ? Got the message ?
    Hey Bustin J, what is it with you anti-religious stuff ? Are you crazy or what ? And why did you substitute the good old fashioned craporola of Krist and God and Heaven and Hell and the Fundamentalist or Catholic or Muslim or Jewish Crap and Bull Sh*t with another religion, this time worshiping “Nature” ? Don’t you understand that we should kill Nature and beat the living daylights out of it ? Isn’t that clear ? Don’t you know that we must destroy it all and change it all and manipulate it completely by building trillions of skyscrapers, Atom energy, Mind over Matter, Rockets to Mars, Giant Cadillacs, Pollution of all kinds, wild chemicals, and all such nice and beautiful and spiritual items that are not made up of Carbon Chemistry, that avoid Carbon atoms, since CARBON ATOMS ARE THE MARK OF THE BEAST ? Is that now clear to you ?
    You are completely crazy with this religious paranoia of the guy having glue in his mind, wow, and I though that there was something wrong with me, go figure…

  390. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 5:19 am #

    Spyder is like listening to Ornette Coleman. Better be payin’ attention.

  391. old69 July 27, 2011 at 5:40 am #

    We exist in as much as we are a measurement, a reciprocal measurement of another entity measuring us (or we imagine another entity measuring us) as in measurement is information, is the ability to interact with a chunk of new information that comes from the outside and the reciprocal action – reaction, and ever expanding set of actions and reactions, like a wave in a pound of measurements, awareness of others (or other sensations, thoughts, other people or their imagined minds and states and such) reciprocal information exchanges, reciprocal information relationships, that are always instantaneous, but how are they decomposed ? what makes up many, where is the start and end of a chunk of information ? where is the group of items representing an information placed ? what is measuring the very existence of information (as in who is keeping score), the delimitation, how is the barrier maintained, how does information not get confused and become a big blob of undistinguished goo, how is it mathematically delimited, and why not just add other items to create a new information item ?
    But how many items, and when and how do they interact between themselves, but are they one or separate ? and what define the boundary, what is separate and unity, distinguished and a monolithic slab of digits, and so on, what delimits, what is the new delimitation, why just put random items in a bag and consider it one as opposed to many ? and how does the electron know how to stay put and be one monolithic slab of Mass Energy ? why does it agree to be a certain delimitation, and how many measurements are needed to keep the electron stable with itself, so it knows how to stay put in one place in one moment of time ?
    On another note, what makes everyone think that working and jobs is the normal order of things ? Why on earth do “we need jobs” in the first place ? Exactly who defined a civilization according to a constant activity, 8 hours a day that is supposed to be a “job”, “work”, or something that is doing something for someone else ? How many activities do we really need ? isn’t “jobs” just mostly a make believe ? Isn’t it just a power structure ?
    So the entire idea of “creating jobs”, a “healthy economy” and such is flawed from the outset because it does not correspond to any reality, it is a make believe organization of society that we think should operate always. Actually the more unemployment and the fewer jobs, the better, the more successful the economy is becoming since all the talk of innovation, research and development, computers, optimization, automation, technology applied to all productive endeavors has the very simple and only goal of eliminating or streamlining effort for the achievement of any target, therefore jobs, so the less work the more successful the economy is, the healthier, the better, the more productive.
    Oh, I forgot, since we have to impose inequality and impose the fact that “you have to deserve it” and you “have to make a living”, then if you “don’t work”, you don’t get any free salaries and cheap rents, as that goes against a fairy tale model of society someone randomly and quirkily and flukely imposed on us all.
    In mathematics, zero is wrong, it should be eliminated, if there are no numbers, then you can’t put a place holder for something representing no numbers, zero is a metaphysical item, it is something that is going outside of the language of numbers, therefore all of our mathematics is wrong, that is why the infinities appear in quantum electrodynamics.

  392. cheekychews July 27, 2011 at 5:41 am #

    “Prove he balanced the budget…can you cite a credible source?”
    Oh, Asia! I asked you a question first!
    And I see you have moved from questioning data I showed on federal debt to the budget outcome … I don’t care.
    But I can wait for you … and in the meantime I refer you to the following:
    The chart I linked to in my first post shows the national debt increasing during Reagan/Bush 1 and reversing under Clinton. [In case you hadn’t figured it out the tinyurl address in the chart is a link to the source]
    http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af227/cheekychews/USGrossFederalDebtsince1945.jpg
    This little chart shows the budget outcome reversing from an increasing deficit to a surplus under Clinton.
    http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af227/cheekychews/USBudgetResults.jpg
    And here’s a table of the source data … refer to Table 1.3 and go to the period 1992 – 2000 and see.
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals/
    After you have digested that see if you can back up your suggestion that Clinton cooked the books.

  393. cheekychews July 27, 2011 at 5:45 am #

    I give you another view of the debt crisis from across the pond.
    http://theconversation.edu.au/us-austerity-politics-playing-on-default-fears-mask-a-looming-problem-2100
    Another article looks at the hands being played by Obama and the Boehner.
    http://theconversation.edu.au/us-debt-crisis-dont-be-surprised-if-republicans-get-a-bit-crazy-2543
    I found this noteworthy – “Hats off to the Tea Party for bringing about that change because regardless of the current crisis, the US is heading for fiscal disaster unless it stops spending more than it taxes.”
    I don’t know that the Tea Party has said anything new … it is A grade motherhood to say a country cannot continue to spend more than it taxes.
    The issue is “what is the spend and what is the tax?”
    It seems to me that the budget mess which has really blown up to grand proportions over the last 10 years has not been caused by the least wealthy citizens, yet they have been hit hard by it. And it seems that the Republicans are playing hard ball in resisting the end of the tax cuts on the top 2% income earners, while demanding further sacrifice by the least wealthy.
    What’s the ethical equation here?

  394. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 5:50 am #

    Think of your brain as an inviolate smooth expanse of virgin vinyl. Your life experiences cut the grooves in the disc. Your disc becomes your completely unique program for your life.
    …uhh, don’t scratch it too many times or there will be distortion.
    Really,
    Ritchie Blackmore

  395. xhalor July 27, 2011 at 6:00 am #

    OK. One last time,
    Socialism for the rich.
    Free Enterprise for the poor.
    Happy Hanukkah

  396. messianicdruid July 27, 2011 at 7:16 am #

    “You’re “drinking the kool-aid”, md.”
    No, I was contrasting “what we are told” {ie: propoganda} with what we can all see right in front of our eyes.
    Why is it any time one points out the lies of one side they are automatically assigned to {and vilified for supporting the lies of} the other side?

  397. lbendet July 27, 2011 at 7:32 am #

    Wake up, Soak,
    Don’t just blame the Republicans when it comes to these awful trade deals….
    You need to understand that, although I agree with you that “W” was especially bad and not up to the job, we have been going in the direction of exporting our jobs to slave labor markets for many a year, and that each administration starting with Nixon and Kissinger were going in this direction.
    As we speak, Obama is trying to push 3 trade deals that will continue to hurt our job market at home, even if he pays the Neoliberal lip service to the contrary. It’s a big lie and both parties want this. The Democrats are as bad as any Republican. It’s all about our broken political system that allows big money to sway the congressional votes.
    Each of these trade deals are good for the S. Koreans, Colombians (anti-labor deal with the murdering of labor organizers) and Panama.–not us.
    As Dylan Ratigan points out, our business lobbyists are behind all this as they destroy the future of America for their giant profits.
    Call your congressman and Senators to vote no on these bills. They are a disaster and Obama is pushing them. This is the end of US labor and a flattening of wages to match the thrid world. Don’t believe me, you’ll see….

  398. old69 July 27, 2011 at 7:41 am #

    Bustin J says:
    “We ph*k like crazy, she comes 10 ten times like wild animals, etc. there are millions that ph*k like crazy, look at adultism and other p*rn websytes, all having wild fun, but most of all we do it to punish you, to torture you, so you can get ever more angry with Rage, Violence, jealousy, you can become ever more Impotent, Small, a Shrinking Violet, a Failure, ever more crushed, you name it, so there, that is our fun, no go on torture yourself ever more since you will never have any, go on, nut case”.
    I answer:
    Where does the mathematics of pain and pleasure exist ? Who or what is keeping score ? why is what happens at point A important for point B (or what happens at point B) (a point being a delimitation in space and/or time and or any other single one bit digit distinguishing itself from another (but who is doing the distinction, where does this distinction exist, and where is “where” itself, and furthermore where is “exist” itself, or instead of where is it “when” or is it some other category not linked to space (where) and time (when) but a third, then fourth, then trillionth and so on)).
    And why do you put words in my mouth ? Why are you signing in with my handle and writing things so it looks like I am writing them ? Or are you a sock puppet ? And why is Vlad and soak (or asoka) the same person acting like a sock puppet ? Why does everyone put false words in the mouths of everyone else so as to confuse identities (nay all anonymous cowards with no identities, therefore no responsibility, all abstract internet entities with no substance, not made up of matter but Reciprocal Information Relationships, therefore essentially dead, the dead making believe they are alive) ?
    So stop putting words in my mouth San Jose Mommy, and Alexandra and Bustin J, I would never say all of those dirty things you try to make me say, I would never write 99 % of the huge crap you all sign in and make me say. You all use my handle as to let out your real selves, to be finally free to show what you really all are, and namely you all want to kill, hate, punish, you are all crazy.

  399. old69 July 27, 2011 at 8:05 am #

    GOD I WAS ENJOYING MY ABSENCE
    Well, I explained that the entire idea of work, labor, jobs, economic health, “a healthy economy”, a “functioning economy” are truly undefined, are make believe, are not defined in any meaningful way, the entire “science” of economy and such other “sciences” like law, psychology, sociology are all false sciences, fake sciences, have no inherent laws within them, but are mostly cultural expressions, cultural choices, we invent some laws or some logic or some rules of engagement and them make believe that they are hard laws of reality just like the laws of physics and pretend to call it a science. Nothing further from the truth.
    The item making up the entity being studied can’t study itself and find out its on laws since said item will just invent them and then make believe that they are laws. So, it is like an electron that wants to “study itself”, that can’t be done, the electron can be studied by something outside of itself, by Man – an aggregated ensemble of billions of electrons, protons and neutrons acting like one and discovering the “laws of physics”. But then isn’t that the same as economics, the item studying itself is made up of itself ? Then science doesn’t exist at all and is just an invention and make believe in all cases ? Hmmm, very strange.
    Anyways, the entire idea of “an economy generates jobs” is false, especially when you have so many non-linearities like random free wills always changing the rules of the game in the form of powerful global decisions through corporations, political choices, financial entities and technology being applied to the economy therefore always changing the rules, etc.
    So is the idea that X number of jobs will or should be created etc. How can the number of jobs or what jobs be defined and imagined from the outset ? In what sense is it normal to have a “working population” of 100 million in the USA ? Why is that normal ? What defines normal ? probably, with all the technology applied seriously, you wouldn’t need more than about 30 million jobs top to run and produce all the real necessities of the USA. Jobs are created through a simple action and reaction of forces interacting and sometimes needing other people to increase profits, end of story. Then you have millions of jobs that are defined culturally, artistically, as a pure political – bureaucratic choice, like schools, universities, military, tourism etc.
    Now I didn’t say anything of what you read, I never said anything at all, it is always someone else putting words in my mouth.
    But I was enjoying my absence from these blogs and forums.

  400. old69 July 27, 2011 at 8:09 am #

    GOD I WAS ENJOYING MY ABSENCE
    Well, I explained that the entire idea of work, labor, jobs, economic health, “a healthy economy”, a “functioning economy” are truly undefined, are make believe, are not defined in any meaningful way, the entire “science” of economy and such other “sciences” like law, psychology, sociology are all false sciences, fake sciences, have no inherent laws within them, but are mostly cultural expressions, cultural choices, we invent some laws or some logic or some rules of engagement and them make believe that they are hard laws of reality just like the laws of physics and pretend to call it a science. Nothing further from the truth.
    The item making up the entity being studied can’t study itself and find out its on laws since said item will just invent them and then make believe that they are laws. So, it is like an electron that wants to “study itself”, that can’t be done, the electron can be studied by something outside of itself, by Man – an aggregated ensemble of billions of electrons, protons and neutrons acting like one and discovering the “laws of physics”. But then isn’t that the same as economics, the item studying itself is made up of itself ? Then science doesn’t exist at all and is just an invention and make believe in all cases ? Hmmm, very strange.
    Anyways, the entire idea of “an economy generates jobs” is false, especially when you have so many non-linearities like random free wills always changing the rules of the game in the form of powerful global decisions through corporations, political choices, financial entities and technology being applied to the economy therefore always changing the rules, etc.
    So is the idea that X number of jobs will or should be created etc. How can the number of jobs or what jobs be defined and imagined from the outset ? In what sense is it normal to have a “working population” of 100 million in the USA ? Why is that normal ? What defines normal ? probably, with all the technology applied seriously, you wouldn’t need more than about 30 million jobs top to run and produce all the real necessities of the USA. Jobs are created through a simple action and reaction of forces interacting and sometimes needing other people to increase profits, end of story. Then you have millions of jobs that are defined culturally, artistically, as a pure political – bureaucratic choice, like schools, universities, military, tourism etc.
    Now I didn’t say anything of what you read, I never said anything at all, it is always someone else putting words in my mouth.
    But I was enjoying my absence from these blogs and forums.

  401. old69 July 27, 2011 at 8:12 am #

    Bustin J says:
    “We ph*k like crazy, she comes 10 ten times like wild animals, etc. there are millions that ph*k like crazy, look at adultism and other p*rn websytes, all having wild fun, but most of all we do it to punish you, to torture you, so you can get ever more angry with Rage, Violence, jealousy, you can become ever more Impotent, Small, a Shrinking Violet, a Failure, ever more crushed, you name it, so there, that is our fun, now go on torture yourself ever more since you will never have any, go on, nut case”.
    I answer:
    Where does the mathematics of pain and pleasure exist ? Who or what is keeping score ? why is what happens at point A important for point B (or what happens at point B) (a point being a delimitation in space and/or time and or any other single one bit digit distinguishing itself from another (but who is doing the distinction, where does this distinction exist, and where is “where” itself, and furthermore where is “exist” itself, or instead of where is it “when” or is it some other category not linked to space (where) and time (when) but a third, then fourth, then trillionth and so on)).
    And why do you put words in my mouth ? Why are you signing in with my handle and writing things so it looks like I am writing them ? Or are you a sock puppet ? And why is Vlad and soak (or asoka) the same person acting like a sock puppet ? Why does everyone put false words in the mouths of everyone else so as to confuse identities (nay all anonymous cowards with no identities, therefore no responsibility, all abstract internet entities with no substance, not made up of matter but Reciprocal Information Relationships, therefore essentially dead, the dead making believe they are alive) ?
    So stop putting words in my mouth San Jose Mommy, and Alexandra and Bustin J, I would never say all of those dirty things you try to make me say, I would never write 99 % of the huge crap you all sign in and make me say. You all use my handle as to let out your real selves, to be finally free to show what you really all are, and namely you all want to kill, hate, punish, you are all crazy.

  402. ozone July 27, 2011 at 8:22 am #

    “…you are all crazy.” -Aged86’ed
    Ohhhhhhhhhhhh-kay then.
    Put down the other 50 hits of pure blotter acid and back awaaaaay from the keyboard. Easy now, eeeeasy… let us help you get this nice warm jacket on, then we’ll take a little ride in a long white car; it’ll clear your head… you’ll see.

  403. old69 July 27, 2011 at 8:27 am #

    Jesus Speaks to Little Children.
    From:
    http://forums.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=175781
    Philosophical Problem
    Unemployment, Economic Recession, Jobless growth, you name it, all of these problems are essentially Artistic, Aesthetic, Philosophical, Metaphysical problems, nay, Religious problems essentially: In an economy that is mostly optional based, consumerist, fun and games based since most of the real necessary parts of the economy have been optimized, automated, you name it, what is really left are just mostly rituals to perform, optional rituals, which rituals are chosen as valuable, which are arbitrarily chosen as producing some results(none of them produce results, they are all just imaginary values and results attached to imaginary rituals, repetitive patterns of behaviors and activities and physical and/or informational manipulations – transformations that just repeat a similar sequence of activities over and over again with some slight changes, just like writing these blogs and blocks of text, that are connected to exchanges of money, to transactions, but there are no real necessities behind them like agriculture or manufacturing).

  404. old69 July 27, 2011 at 8:28 am #

    Just think agriculture in the developed world gives work to 2 % of the working population, manufacturing only to about 20 % at most, so what is left are cultural choices, pure random quirky fun and game choices based on nothing at all but artistic and aesthetical choices like Movies, Music, TV, Internet, Finance, Lawyers, etc.
    Like which rituals are attached to what transactions of money and goods, how are the separate economic circuits connected, from necessary to fluff and fun and games, but since each ritual corresponding to an economic exchange, an exchange of money, a transaction has a counter attached to it, a score keeping system that corresponds to profit and how much you can gain from how little input you put in to play out or produce each ritual, then they automatically become optimized and automated or whatever and then kill the jobs associated with them. Like agriculture, the most important necessity has been optimized to employ not more than 2 % of the population, manufacturing, which already starts to become somewhat optional as the products chosen start to become designs, styles, artistic choices associated with some real necessities, etc. like a simple car and then a luxury car, a simple house but then a McMansion, a simple kitchen and then a high class one full of options and fluff etc. but still tied to necessities, well even in manufacturing only about 20 % of the workforce is employed: the rest is employed in mostly fun and games, options, or some kinds of necessities that become forced and used as weapons to crush (since there are no longer any necessities hiring workers) like health care costs going sky high, House costs going sky high, maybe Water in the future, etc.
    So, the real problem today, the real economic problem is purely cultural, artistic, aesthetic, really philosophical and metaphysical: which rituals and associated symbols are supposed to be valuable (always for no reason at all), what fun and games are worth playing and paying for, who or what decides (aside from the typical marketing based, brainwashing based consensus based decisions where millions are brainwashed that a turd is worth millions of dollars and buy into it, like housing, which is just a box and the prices going ever higher for no reason at all, IPHONE (just a cheap computer), health care, which is mostly routine and well known old fashioned rituals that go sky high because everyone has been brainwashed that there is some kind of scarcity going on, etc)?
    Even the capitalists are mostly naive on all of this, they just operate in cruise control making believe everything is still like the 20th century, production – innovation – jobs, the fairy tale, the previous repeated patterns forever, but they are dead wrong, the game has changed forever, the pattern interrupted, now it is completely unknown what on earth millions of unemployed are supposed to do and in fact work and labor keep people from fighting, keep them from discovering the real bottom line that people are mostly and simply defined as enemies, as fights, as contrasts, as contentions, as repressed and pent up desire to beat the living daylights out of everyone else, but the jobs and rituals should hide this real essence of Man that is a Turd and just wants to fight and hate and beat each other up, but if no rituals are available anymore hiring people, they will fight it off and kill each other.
    But then what is a ritual and what isn’t ? What is a necessity and what isn’t ? As Man is the Infinitely Programmable Machine anything can be defined valid and worthy of doing and anything else not, so in theory you could have a trillion new jobs all based on a trillion new oddball, the more insane the better, the more quirky and irrational the better rituals, repetitive patterns, or even not repetitive patterns, etc. so then there has never been so many potential jobs as today ? Maybe even just watching TV or simply sleeping can be defined a job, maybe all the dead are workers, doing nothing at all is ok, is an accepted profession, just do absolutely nothing 24 hours a day for trillions of years, you better like to get bored, that is the new normal, the new job, just punch the card every 1 trillion years, etc. or maybe war is the new normal, or unemployment and talking about an imaginary economic crisis is the new ritual and job, paid or not, whatever…
    AMEN.
    Quo Vadis, baby ?

  405. budizwiser July 27, 2011 at 8:35 am #

    JK – another jab at the “nobody knows” premise.
    I know this is an old piece – but re-read it for some blood churning dr pepper…..
    Names – people – the who got screwed – where are the pitch forks – err rifles?
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-real-causes-of-the-economic-crisis-theyre-history/2011/06/27/AG2nK4pH_story.html

  406. Dostoyevsky July 27, 2011 at 8:52 am #

    Old69
    There there its alright, put your walking stick down slowly on the table, slowly , slowly, that’s a good boy. Now you sit down on the sofa and take a load off and relax and I’ll fetch your medication.
    Easy does it, only take 4 tablets no more, don’t choke, swallow it all down slowly.
    Well done there’s a good boy now.
    Feeling better? Ofcourse you are! Lie back and close your eyes… breathe deeply… and slowly… in and out… in… and out.
    There all better.

  407. soak July 27, 2011 at 8:52 am #

    Don’t believe me, you’ll see….
    —————
    Lbendet, I do believe you. I hope CAFTA can be stopped.
    I have written to Obama to tell him not to approve the trade deal with Colombia, which has murdered more union leaders than all the other countries of the world combined.

  408. soak July 27, 2011 at 9:06 am #

    To metuselah: Still believe the fix is in? When? For whom?
    To P,C: Still believe a last minute deal will be passed?
    For everyone: Who benefits from default? Who benefits from a downgraded credit rating? Who benefits from higher interest rates? Who benefits from cuts in social programs?

  409. rippedthunder July 27, 2011 at 9:37 am #

    Yo Vlad, e-mail me your address, Ima gonna sen ya dis t-shirt
    http://www.tshirthell.com/funny-shirts/slavery-gets-shit-done/

  410. soak July 27, 2011 at 9:44 am #

    To lbendet: You posted the Hudson interview and he said a default would not be allowed. I called Hudson on that.
    Do you still think Hudson is right?
    The sides are farther apart now. Boehner cannot get a plan passed in a Republican-controlled House. If he does, the Senate won’t pass it. If it does, the President won’t sign it.
    Who is looking most prescient now, Hudson or Asoka?

  411. progress,conserve July 27, 2011 at 10:19 am #

    The Olde Spider Soixante-Neuf is back!
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/soixante-neuf
    This is beyond the power of TrollControl to fix.
    We need James Howard Kunstler.
    Calling James Howard Kunstler.
    (or his tech support guy?)
    We have a problem that only you can solve.

  412. rippedthunder July 27, 2011 at 10:37 am #

    OH PROG, I love it when you speak French!
    http://pollyvousfrancais.blogspot.com/2007/05/addams-family-was-one-of-those-1960s-tv.html

  413. progress,conserve July 27, 2011 at 11:04 am #

    “As we speak, Obama is trying to push 3 trade deals that will continue to hurt our job market”
    -lbend-
    Obama’s problem – like that of any other politician – is that he wants a second term, campaign money, and the approval of others – more than he wants to do what is good for the average citizen of the US.
    And now, there is convincing evidence building that Obama has NEVER cared for the average citizen of the US.
    ==================
    “To lbendet: You posted the Hudson interview and he said a default would not be allowed. I called Hudson on that.
    Do you still think Hudson is right?”
    -soak-
    My personal opinion continues to be that some sort of last minute deal will be reached on this latest debt ceiling debacle. But, here’s the thing:
    IT WILL NOT MATTER IN THE LONG RUN.
    In the long run, the situation of the US is unsustainable. Policies were put in place 1980 forward – accompanied by excellent propaganda – and the Country has been sliding downhill to the point of default ever since.
    The TEA’s and their minions have put their little feet down, right now. Maybe they’ll make it stick and we’ll have a short term default and better policies going forward. Seems as unlikely as space aliens landing on the capitol grounds – but it’s vaguely possible.
    Or the TEA’s will cave – the US will paper over our problems for another few months or a year or two – – –
    But, regarding the LONG-term solvency of the US
    “the hand writing is on the wall…”
    -book of Daniel-

  414. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 11:06 am #

    I read your link, and agree with the analysis, but not the prescription.
    Ironically, spider nails it better than the experts.
    We are so productive that there is no need for 150 million workers in the US.
    So they blame the lazy, the stupid, the uneducated, etc., for that which is a structural problem.
    We don’t have enough work to be done to give “jobs” to 150 million people at 40 hours/week.
    And increasing productivity will only lead to fewer “jobs” and more destruction of our ecosystem.
    Spider’s solutions-building skyscraper to Mars, etc. will not work either.
    We need de-industrialization, more people working less land, and a sharing of the products of our labor. And a massive birth control effort.
    We need Buddhist economics.
    http://www.smallisbeautiful.org/buddhist_economics/english.html

  415. San Jose Mom 51 July 27, 2011 at 11:41 am #

    Thanks for sharing the “Buddhist Economics” link.
    Thought provoking.

  416. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 11:48 am #

    The debt ceiling hoopla is an example of how we really can’t figure out what the ruling class is up to.
    They are playing chess and we think they are playing checkers.
    We assume that they would not deliberately harm Americans, or small businesses or that they would destroy the environment that we all depend on.
    We have no basis for that belief.
    I remember believing that they would reward Hilary Clinton with the Democratic nomination, for all Bill and her service to the ruling class.
    Wrong. They went with the Black guy with the populist rhetoric.
    Brilliant! They still have people fooled! As Obama eagerly destroys the last of the New Deal, there are millions of Democrats truly believing that in his next term, we will all be saved.
    It’s very possible that Ian807 nailed it, (upthread) and they are planning to more rapidly bring American workers to Chinese wages, fighting China without using nuclear bombs.
    It reminds me of 9-11. The most common reason people give for not believing the evidence of their own eyes, is that “they would never hurt Americans”.
    Really? How many Americans have to end up in the streets, begging for alms, before that belief is abandoned?

  417. Al Klein July 27, 2011 at 11:51 am #

    Old69, your observations are quite compelling. Ultimately most of our our pain is the result of cultural norms which are mostly optional. Ergo, our suffering is self-induced as a result of our interpretation of reality. This is congruent with fundamental message of mahayana Buddhism, which, frankly, looks increasingly rational. The current zeitgeist reeks of misanthropy and masochism. This is reflected in our group attitude. No more “Possunt quia posse videntur.”

  418. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 11:53 am #

    You’re welcome.
    There are prescient people in each generation. Who are ignored.
    Chris Hedges’ latest article is pretty good. He attacks the idea that humans are on a linear trip of improvement.
    Although, as a typical American, I tend to lean that way, I also know that we can equally return to feudalism and the Dark Ages.
    And if I look at certain trends, I can see a very strong push by the ruling class to move us in that direction.

  419. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 11:57 am #

    Whoops! I meant to say that we assume that they would NOT destroy the environment on which we depend, but we have no basis for that belief.

  420. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 12:00 pm #

    OK, soak, I give up.
    What’s your analysis?
    But, if it’s that Obama is trying to save us from the evil Republicans, never mind.

  421. bossier22 July 27, 2011 at 12:09 pm #

    We spent money that could have been spent on nasa importing poor people from the third world and fighting corporate wars.

  422. bossier22 July 27, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

    nasa is a government program that actually accomplished its mission at one time. It helped stimulate general technology development. It also inspired the nation when we actually had a nation that could appreciate accomplishment. Now its mission is recognize muslim contribution. What a joke.

  423. progress,conserve July 27, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

    That was ProC’s writing……..
    Pro, Trolkle called you a fool!
    -asia-
    Asia,
    Yeah, I noticed that “fool,” calling. Of course you called him “Trolkle.” That’s funnier!
    Eluthero originated this prose, I copied it, so did you – so actually I’m only a third derivative TurkFool, or whatever. hehe
    “‘The Bay Area is America’s Yugoslavia because like the old Yugoslavia, all these merging ethnicities do NOT interact with the pre-existing Anglo culture and, indeed, they even try to do all their BUSINESS with people of their own tribe”
    -Eleuthero, quoted by asia and P,C-
    So, Turk – that was an interesting counterpoint, and I get your point – but I’m not seeing things as quite so lovely, where I live in Atlanta, GA.
    And YEAH, no doubt, most larger business environments are pretty well integrated. But housing in Atlanta is hugely stratified by race and class. And what asia mentions – small businessmen who only want to deal with their own race – that’s a pretty common phenomenon among the various Asian subcultures and the various South and Central American subcultures around here. Is SF really a whole lot better?
    Turk – you’re a “classic liberal.” You’ve posted some good stuff on taxation and economics. But – you need to try to consider the possibility that classical liberalism has it WRONG when it comes to the eventual success or failure of multiculturalism.
    Think about what “could” happen, even in lovely SF – if the power went out and the police lost control of the situation for a week or so – – – under stress, people will react and stratify by race, class, religion or something – it’s a survival strategy that predates civilization.
    I’m not arguing that the US has a whole lot of options, right now – except to pray for lots and lots of time for multiculturalism to work it’s way through to some sort of resolution while Economic Good Times last.
    And to reduce immigration to “replacement level” until we get our economic, and social, and energy issues – somewhat solved.
    What do you think, Turk?

  424. soak July 27, 2011 at 12:44 pm #

    I think CENSORED is trying to save us from CENSORED. TPTB will CENSORED and the puppets will CENSORED until the Trilateral Commission and the Council of Foreign Relations CENSORED.
    In other words, don’t ask for analysis and censor the response in advance.

  425. ccm989 July 27, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    The real purpose of the Tea Party is help the super rich become even more powerful and wealthy. To create a plutocracy. The sycophants of the Tea Party assume that the super rich will take care of them. But that is where the TP’s assumption is wrong. The rich take care of themselves. They have no interest in anyone else. Anyone else is just a future starving serf. The rich believe neither in charity or pity.
    The clock is ticking relentlessly toward Aug. 2nd. Be prepared for the worst. And don’t forget to thank you local Tea Party for being the straw that broke America’s back.

  426. progress,conserve July 27, 2011 at 1:37 pm #

    That’s close, CCM –
    “The sycophants of the Tea Party assume that the super rich will take care of them.”
    But, IMO, the sycophants of the TEA Party already think they ARE the super rich. The propaganda started before Reagan, perhaps – but those “supply-siders” perfected it to the point that the TEA’s all think of themselves as Entrepreneurs, Investors, and soon to be Wealthy Persons Who Need a Tax Cut.
    weirdly. effective. propaganda.
    Wonder if Fab/Toot could explain how it works without invective?

  427. Dasviking July 27, 2011 at 1:43 pm #

    “C” the tea party is the one ballzy enough to bring this ongoing potential crisis that has been going on for decades to a head…..it’s better to do it today so future generations being spared this madness will look upon this generation as well….hero’s…….time to reset

  428. progress,conserve July 27, 2011 at 1:53 pm #

    “”C” the tea party is the one ballzy”
    -the viking-
    Maybe, viking. But what about the FACT that the US was most prosperous pre-Kennedy, when the highest marginal Federal tax rates were 90%.
    And I’d think the TEA Partiers would want to consider defense spending and our 100’s of bases and golf courses around the world –
    If they were serious about reducing spending.
    (leaving aside the idea of how the average TEA partier is on SS/Medicare, or soon will be – as they clamor to reduce “entitlements.)

  429. Dasviking July 27, 2011 at 1:59 pm #

    If you thought outsourcin­g was a problem now, just put that 90% tax rate in place and watch the companies and CEOs leave this country….. FYI, the top 50% of wage earners pay 97% of the taxes already…… without them this country would be gone…….

  430. progress,conserve July 27, 2011 at 2:22 pm #

    Look, viking – the 90% rate WAS in place – in the 1960’s – when the US WAS prosperous. That’s just an historical fact. You cannot deny facts, can you?
    “FYI, the top 50% of wage earners pay 97% of the taxes already.” -viking-
    You need to change the word “wage” to “income,” man.
    Because most of the top, top income earners do not earn “wages,” on which they pay marginal income taxes and SOCIAL SECURITY.
    Most of the top income earners receive dividends and capital gains – which are taxed at a maximum rate of 15%.
    How do I know this? Because I manage rental properties – and I know how to read (and UNDERSTAND) the effects of US tax law.
    Now, viking, I’d be happy to hear from YOU, about your own income situation. But if you are just going to give me the super wealthy Rush/Hannity talking point answer – –
    then. never. mind.
    thanks.

  431. Cash July 27, 2011 at 2:25 pm #

    He is great. One kickass solo in around the 3 minute mark in Play That Damned Guitar.
    One thing that’s a mystery to me is where music comes from. I love listening to it but couldn’t create it even if my life depended on it. I read somewhere that “Keef” Richards was asleep, dreamt the riff in “Satisfaction”, woke up, got his guitar, recorded it on some rinky dink tape recorder. WTF? How does that happen? Pick any composer. I just don’t “get” where it comes from.

  432. Cash July 27, 2011 at 2:29 pm #

    Man oh man. What kind of neurology does that take?

  433. messianicdruid July 27, 2011 at 2:33 pm #

    “…it’s better to do it today so future generations being spared this madness…”
    The “it” is:
    1. Nationalize the FED, so it is truly a FEDERAL Reserve.
    2. Convert all FRNs (i.e., debt notes) into real interest-free money.
    3. Convert all bonds to real money, except those held by the FED itself. All of their bonds should be confiscated by the US Treasury and cancelled out.
    4. Declare a Jubilee. Then everyone owns their own homes and cars, and there are plenty of empty homes for the homeless. (Private loans may be compensated by the government.)
    Chaos? Yes, of course. Bad? Only for the FED and its owners. As the tower of Babel falls, there will certainly be some chaos. But the alternative is to live in its shadow as perpetual slaves of mattoids unknown to us.
    So while Tweedle-dee and Tweedle-dum fight over their different solutions to the debt crisis, keep in mind these proposals will NOT work in the long run.
    The Democratic Plan would last longer, but would put the people in greater bondage through taxes. The Republican Plan would cut taxes and reverse the flow of money from the Stimulus packages from recent years. This would cause the greatest Depression ever seen on the Planet.
    There is an actual solution, if anyone is interested. Most people know nothing about it, having never studied biblical law. Even judeo-christians have been taught to despise the law, and hence, they seldom study it and hardly ever understand the little they read.
    But this is the plan that will be implemented in the end. The Babylonian system was always unsustainable; the seeds of its own destruction were sown at the very beginning. Bankers thought that they could take over the world, with usury as their weapon of choice. But at the pinnacle of their success, they will fail through arrogance, pride, and our repentance {changed mind}.

  434. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

    You disappoint me, soak.
    I had strongly agreed with Michael Hudson’s assessment of the situation, (that the ruling class would never not raise the debt ceiling, because it would destroy commerce in the US), until I read Ian’s assessment, which made even more sense to me.
    Then you imply that you also have a view.
    I was very interested in what that view was.
    But not if it was more Obama cheerleading. Especially because I was just watching the link someone provided, in which they pointed out that Obama, at a dinner with neocons at George Will’s house early on, assured the neocons that he planned to go after Social Security and Medicare.
    And that the Republicans were going for $2 trillion cuts, but Obama pushed for $4 trillion. And that Obama was the one that brought up Social Security and Medicare, not the Republicans.
    So if all you’ve got is that Obama is playing chess and trying to protect the little people, never mind.

  435. Dasviking July 27, 2011 at 2:42 pm #

    “Look, viking – the 90% rate WAS in place – in the 1960’s – when the US WAS prosperous. That’s just an historical fact. You cannot deny facts, can you?”
    A whole different set of circumstances today compared to the 50’s and early 60’s…..
    “FYI, the top 50% of wage earners pay 97% of the taxes already.” -viking-
    “You need to change the word “wage” to “income,” man.
    Because most of the top, top income earners do not earn “wages,” on which they pay marginal income taxes and SOCIAL SECURITY.”
    Hahahahaha….ok…i mean income………..the bottom line is follow the money…a country needs money…nurture it…care for it ….don’t abuse it with high taxes so that governments can spend it in ways i or anyone else don’t approve of?…..remember i never was hired by a poor man…….and i bet you never where either
    “Most of the top income earners receive dividends and capital gains – which are taxed at a maximum rate of 15%.”
    So what do they do with all that money from dividents and capital gains???
    How do I know this? Because I manage rental properties – and I know how to read (and UNDERSTAND) the effects of US tax law.
    we need more competitive corporate tax rates in order to be on top again………35% just don’t cut it in a global world
    “Now, viking, I’d be happy to hear from YOU, about your own income situation. But if you are just going to give me the super wealthy Rush/Hannity talking point answer – –
    then. never. mind.
    thanks.”
    I’m just a simple wage earner and tax payer working for a private company thats sustained by capital investments from rich people…i guess ……….

  436. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 2:43 pm #

    You can’t deny facts, can you? (Prog)
    The facts are not only that the US was most prosperous when the 90% tax rate was in effect, but that since the Reagan and then the Bush tax cuts, US industry has moved out of the US.
    How can you ignore 30 years of capital flight?
    How can you continue to spout right wing fantasy economics, when you live in a country being hollowed out by the very wealthy?

  437. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 2:48 pm #

    I forgot to give the link.
    http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=7082
    And remember that it is Obama threatening the August Social Security checks of millions of people (the ones you regularly point out go out every month on time), even though Social Security has nothing to do with the federal deficit, Social Security has its own funding, and is still in the black.
    Obama was put in to do what the Republicans were unable to do, and he’s doing it so well that apologists like you don’t even acknowledge it!!!

  438. soak July 27, 2011 at 2:51 pm #

    It is very simple, Wage. To bring Obama down and prevent a second term, they are willing to crash the economy.
    There will be no last minute deal, as Hudson said.
    There will be no going after Social Security and Medicare, and I don’t believe Obama ever said that to the neocons.
    But there may yet be a solution: invoke the 14th amendment and act unilaterally to raise the debt ceiling. Social Security and Medicare will remain intact.

  439. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 2:52 pm #

    It may interest you to know, Messianic, that even though I am an atheist, I brought up the concept of Jubilee on my radio show.
    Of course, I also brought up the game of Monopoly, to point out that when one person, or 1% of the people have all the wealth, the game is over and its time to reset.
    We can’t continue like this.

  440. messianicdruid July 27, 2011 at 2:57 pm #

    “He was a white Christian terrorist.”
    “Piecing together Breivik’s various posts on the Internet, many media reports have characterized the terrorist – who says he was upset over the multiculturalist policies stemming from Norway’s Labour Party – as a “right-wing, Christian fundamentalist.”
    Yet, while McVeigh rejected God altogether, Breivik writes in his manifesto that he is not religious, has doubts about God’s existence, does not pray, but does assert the primacy of Europe’s “Christian culture” as well as his own pagan Nordic culture.
    Breivik instead hails Charles Darwin, whose evolutionary theories stand in contrast to the claims of the Bible, and affirms: “As for the Church and science, it is essential that science takes an undisputed precedence over biblical teachings. Europe has always been the cradle of science, and it must always continue to be that way. Regarding my personal relationship with God, I guess I’m not an excessively religious man. I am first and foremost a man of logic. However, I am a supporter of a monocultural Christian Europe.”
    The terrorist also candidly admits he finds no support within either the Catholic or Protestant churches for his violent ideas.”
    Asoka: Will you candidly admit {again} you are full of ______ .
    http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=325765#ixzz1T83heV4q

  441. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 3:01 pm #

    So all those cui bono questions were just rhetoric?
    Check out the link I provided if you don’t believe that Obama said that.
    I really don’t care which puppet is next in the White House. This one has gone after my job.
    And the more ridiculous the whole election charade becomes, the earlier they start the propaganda.

  442. soak July 27, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    OBAMA’S JOB APPROVAL AMONG DEMOCRATS
    Obama … 78 percent (July 18 to July 24, 2011)
    Clinton . 77 percent (July 20 to July 23, 1995) Carter .. 37 percent (July 13 to July 16, 1979) Johnson . 63 percent (July 13 to July 18, 1967) Kennedy . 77 percent (July 18 to July 23, 1963) Truman .. 76 percent (July 4 to July 9, 1947)
    Obama’s ratings may go up even more, but they already top all Democratic presidents back to 1947.

  443. jackieblue2u July 27, 2011 at 3:03 pm #

    Tripp don’t give a rip what you say or think about him.
    He knows who he is and he contributes alot to this blog, he can come and go as often as he wants.

  444. Cash July 27, 2011 at 3:05 pm #

    DV, I would argue this: fuck ’em. Who needs ’em. I’ve spent (or mispent) my life in the corporate world and watched those asswipes wreck what was once a productive North American economy. And I shouldn’t act all innocent in this either given that I made my money there.
    I hope they go to China. They’ll soon enough find out what the score is. They’ll find out who has power and who hasn’t and that it ain’t them. I’ll be delighted to watch and laugh while those hard little men in Beijing pick their bones clean.

  445. Bustin J July 27, 2011 at 3:05 pm #

    oldie said, “Hey Bustin J, what is it with you anti-religious stuff ? Are you crazy or what ? And why did you substitute the good old fashioned craporola of Krist and God and Heaven and Hell and the Fundamentalist or Catholic or Muslim or Jewish Crap and Bull Sh*t with another religion, this time worshiping “Nature” ? Don’t you understand that we should kill Nature and beat the living daylights out of it ? Isn’t that clear ?”
    Not at all, Oldie. Although it seems as though Nature has doctrines (in competition with religious doctrines), that is a fiction of human perception. As an athiest, every time I lay down in the daises, I am blissfully aware that the daises are also athiests, as are the trees, the birds, and all the insects and other creatures. I am merely throwing in with my tribe when I reject all anthropocentric doctrines and exalt nature.
    Olde also saith: “GOD I WAS ENJOYING MY ABSENCE”
    I midread that at first, I thought it read: “GOD I WAS ENJOYING MY ABSINTHE”… and suddenly all your posts made sense in this context…

  446. soak July 27, 2011 at 3:15 pm #

    Breivik was raised as a Christian in a Christian culture, and Christian conditioning goes deep, especially when Christians get their hands on young ones early. Breivik, in his manifesto, writes of al Qaeda with admiration, as if he would love to create a Christian version of their religious cadre. Though he only occasionally quotes scripture, and admires the church in Norway largely as a cultural center for Christendom, he is captivated by Christian history. Breivik is fascinated with the Crusades and imagines himself to be a member of the Knights Templar, the crusader army of a thousand years ago. He would like to have a Christian army comparable to al Qaeda’s Muslim militia. McVeigh was fixed on the day of April 19, the anniversary of the Waco siege. Breivik chose July 22, which was the day in 1099 that the Kingdom of Jerusalem was established during the First Crusades. The date, 2083, that is the title of his manifesto, is the date (400 years later) of the Battle of Vienna in which the armies of the Ottoman Empire were defeated and Europe was prevented from becoming a Muslim territory.
    Brievik is a Christian terrorist.

  447. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 3:16 pm #

    Check out today’s Democracy Now for testimony from someone actually reading the 1500 page manifesto.
    http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/27/norwegian_shooting_suspects_views_echo_xenophobia

  448. BeantownBill July 27, 2011 at 3:19 pm #

    This very freaky. You must be my driving twin. When I get into the city, I drive VERY aggresively. I tell my wife that when I grow up I want to be a NYC cab driver.
    We’ve been to California many times. On one of our trips, in 1987, I remember driving in San Diego. I was approaching a crosswalk, and a pedestrian was just stepping off the curb into the crosswalk. She made the mistake of assuming I would stop, because I was supposed to. Bad error. She screamed at me as I whizzed by her 6 inches away. She couldn’t hear me, but I said something like, “What do you expect, I’m from Boston, baby!” In Boston, pedestrians and drivers play chicken games; sometimes the pedestrians win, but when they lose… let’s just say it makes the evening news.

  449. turkle July 27, 2011 at 3:23 pm #

    You want to talk racial violence? Ok.
    Remember World Wars I and II? Do you recall the race of all the primary players in the European theater? They were all WHITE. But even though they share the same race, they managed to kill almost 80 million of each other (give or take). They even share(d) Western culture, though that means less than you probably think it does.
    And here you are complaining about the supposedly scary brown people who probably haven’t laid a finger on you.
    Heck, this Norwegian nutcase was white and killed a bunch of his own people, even though he was supposedly rabidly against Muslims. Oops.
    “small businessmen who only want to deal with their own race”
    Where is the evidence for this besides your hand waving and vague anecdotes? Any sane business will deal just fine with all customers, whether they be pink, brown, beige, or purple. Their money is the same color. I see this all the time in the Bay Area. Furthermore, you cannot legally discriminate against a customer based on race, and, as far as I know, most businesses would be loath to do it. They could face legal action, not to mention a really bad hit in their reputation.
    And as for the Mad Max future scenarios, I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it. In the meantime, things are going along fine, and I haven’t been attacked by any roving gangs of minorities lately.
    One of the classical virtues of liberalism is tolerance. That means I accept that other people have different backgrounds, languages, views, cultures, religions, etc. I am perfectly happy to live alongside and with people who are different from me. I’ll even accept the fact that some of these people hold beliefs that I find nonsensical (e.g. religion).
    But it doesn’t mean I condone them (or anyone) committing serious crimes. Whatever gave you that idea? It is a conclusion people like you often jump to erroneously.
    Anyways, California’s problems at this point seem mostly financial to me. Yes, there are racial undercurrents, but from what I can tell everyone here gets along pretty well on a day-to-day basis. It is no Yugoslavia in the making.

  450. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 3:31 pm #

    What’s your point?
    All that says to me is that today’s Democrats are unable to see their own interests and that of the rest of their compatriots in America ahead of their rah rah team spirit.
    Must be the effect of years of TV sports viewing.

  451. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 3:34 pm #

    I remember driving my friend from San Jose to San Francisco one time.
    The entire trip on 280, I drove my usual 55mph, staying in the right lane and watching out for trucks.
    When we got to San Francisco, I made sure that I got where I was going, even though other drivers tried to stop me.
    My friend was white knuckled! She wanted to know why I drove like an old lady on the freeway and a maniac in the city!

  452. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 3:37 pm #

    But I always stop for pedestrians and bicyclists!
    When my daughter lived in Maine, I believe that they referred to Boston drivers as “Massholes”.

  453. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 3:39 pm #

    You lay in the daisies?
    There must be no chiggers where you live!

  454. jackieblue2u July 27, 2011 at 3:40 pm #

    Better luck next time ! I am asleep so I many never be first.
    all you have to do is type First ! then send, and then post your blog.
    you can do it.

  455. Vlad Krandz July 27, 2011 at 3:41 pm #

    Breivik was a Mason and no major Christian Denomination accepts that one can be both a Mason and a Christian. As you may or may not know, Masons fancy themselves the lost remnant of the Knights Templars. Breivik was apparently involved in a small violent group that fancied itself an activist wing of the long lost Templars. It all fits in a very tortured way in his mind.
    The most interesting thing he said in his video (haven’t waded thru the Manifesto) is that it’s too late to democratically stop the invasion. In this I believe he is correct. So it’s either war or capitualtion. It Europe awakes, fights, and wins – Breivik will someday be seen as a Hero, a latter day Charles Martel. If the West continues to sleep, then it will become Muslim and Breivik will be seen as another crusader who fought Islam – indirectly by attacking Islam’s Liberal allies.
    “Conservatives” or “Liberals” who want the status quo are living in a fantasy. This cannot last. The Muslims will dominate – they’ve done in countless times before. In this Breivik is correct. The unwillingness to act CREATES men like Breivik. You people drove him to madness and atrocity.
    Note: the Church suppressed the Knights Templar but some admit unwisely and for political reasons. There is a twilight world of Catholic Crusader Organizations – most just committed to ceremony and pomp but some with money and influence. Some of these People may have unoffical sympathy for Breivik despite his Masonry.

  456. jackieblue2u July 27, 2011 at 3:51 pm #

    You don’t have to say where you live.
    Most know I live around the Central Ca Coast.
    Where we DO have a growing gang problem.
    and everytime I watch the news, Police are getting laid off. more and more.
    Watsonville is getting worse and Salinas has always had major gang problems.
    Gangsters knock down little ‘ol ladies in parking lots, and take their purses. Isn’t that special?
    Shooting In Target Parking lot. One killed, gf wounded.
    Dammit Target has great tasting popcorn.
    (I used to live in Watsonville years ago.)
    I feel for sure that the hispanic girls dispise caucasian women. One almost sicked her gang of guys on me. Mind you these are ‘kids’ but they kill.
    I don’t know the solution or if their is one.
    Their are parts of California that do not have gang problems. Like Auburn, because the Men up there would just take ’em out and be done with it.
    this sounds heartless but sometimes I feel this way and I know they do.
    If only they had something to do with their time other than Kill people. They won’t. it won’t change. I don’t know. I don’t study this so much.
    Andrew Vachss does, he is online.
    CA has major money problems. Major. Cutbacks everywhere, city workers, police, etc.
    It’s here. TS IS HITTING TF.
    I need to be off and running errands now.

  457. Dolan Williams July 27, 2011 at 3:54 pm #

    Turkle, I live in the Los Angeles area and I have to agree with you about the cultural and racial stability of California in general. As a matter of fact, I’m amazed every day at the diversity of people who live within just a few miles of my house. The fact is that California’s current problems are financial in nature (excluding the horrible traffic). I’m not saying that we could not have terrible social upheavals if the American economy were to melt down but it would all be about the money (or the lack thereof). By the way, both my son and daughter recently lost their jobs and have joined the ranks of California’s unemployed. This state’s economy is definitely in the tank.

  458. jackieblue2u July 27, 2011 at 3:54 pm #

    Yeah I heard that to. But haven’t been there so can’t say. Probably is better, but not enough.

  459. BeantownBill July 27, 2011 at 3:58 pm #

    Wrong, Turk, although you are correct in saying that we must save ourselves while we are living here on Earth.
    The idea that we can emigrate en masse off Earth and end our problems here is ridiculous. It’s true the numbers don’t work. If we leave 2 billion people here, we’d have to offload 5 billion ( 5,000 million) somewhere. If we did it in 20 years – 7300 days – we’d have to ship out 700,000 people per day, every day, forgetting about other obstacles.
    And yes, there’s really no place to go offworld, at least for the forseeable future.
    Where I believe you’re missing the boat (pun intended), is why we need to have a human-based presence in space. Our solar system has vast resources we can use – huge amounts of water-ice and a wide-range of minerals. These can conceivably be reached with present-day technology. Solar power can be harnessed to provide more energy for Earth.
    Utilizing all this can buy us time while we try to solve our problems on good ol’ terra firma. But the primary reason for flitting around through local space is to insure the survival of the species in the event we kill ourselves off on Earth. I have more hope in our ability to colonize space than in our ability to get along with each other and solve problems here.
    I’m not a stupid, blind technophile adolescent; I believe if we don’t try, we certainly will be doomed.

  460. old69 July 27, 2011 at 3:58 pm #

    HOT and HORNY and Disgusting slut of Alexandra that is always ph*king and enjoying here brains out and all while making me rage with envy, hate, insanity of hate and violence and hysterically angry and wild with anger, grief, sense of failure, depression, you name it found some spelling errors in my previous block of text: So now I have to post it again, now don’t blame me for double posting San Jose Mommy, don’t beat the living daylights out of me because of that slut, please have mercy on my wicked soul condemned to HELL forever, please… (but a universe without GOD is even more terrifying since you can always hope that the mercy of GOD will take us all out of hell, if even for just a few seconds every one trillion years, instead a universe without GOD would have no mercy, it would just blindly punish us forever, for no reason, as it would be a blind force that is dead and not aware of our suffering, go figure)
    GOD I WAS ENJOYING MY ABSENCE
    Well, I explained that the entire idea of work, labor, jobs, economic health, “a healthy economy”, a “functioning economy” are truly undefined, are make believe, are not defined in any meaningful way, the entire “science” of economy and such other “sciences” like law, psychology, sociology are all false sciences, fake sciences, have no inherent laws within them, but are mostly cultural expressions, cultural choices, we invent some laws or some logic or some rules of engagement and then make believe that they are hard laws of reality just like the laws of physics and pretend to call it a science. Nothing further from the truth.
    The item making up the entity being studied can’t study itself and find out its own laws since said item will just invent them and then make believe that they are laws. So, it is like an electron that wants to “study itself”, that can’t be done, the electron can be studied by something outside of itself, by Man – an aggregated ensemble of billions of electrons, protons and neutrons acting like one and discovering the “laws of physics”. But then isn’t that the same as economics, the item studying itself is made up of itself ? Then science doesn’t exist at all and is just an invention and make believe in all cases ? Hmmm, very strange.
    Anyways, the entire idea of “an economy generates jobs” is false, especially when you have so many non-linearities like random free wills always changing the rules of the game in the form of powerful global decisions through corporations, political choices, financial entities and technology being applied to the economy therefore always changing the rules, etc.
    So is the idea that X number of jobs will or should be created etc. How can the number of jobs or what jobs be defined and imagined from the outset ? In what sense is it normal to have a “working population” of 100 million in the USA ? Why is that normal ? What defines normal ? probably, with all the technology applied seriously, you wouldn’t need more than about 30 million jobs tops to run and produce all the real necessities of the USA. Jobs are created through a simple action and reaction of forces interacting and sometimes needing other people to increase profits, end of story. Then you have millions of jobs that are defined culturally, artistically, as a pure political – bureaucratic choice, like schools, universities, military, tourism etc.
    Now I didn’t say anything of what you read, I never said anything at all, it is always someone else putting words in my mouth.
    But I was enjoying my absence from these blogs and forums.

  461. Dasviking July 27, 2011 at 4:01 pm #

    Well ca$h….at this point it probably don’t matter anymore…I thought I’d never say that but we all are slaves to the lender now…..you can finally see it in the panic in D.C……we are living in interesting times my friend buckle up and enjoy this segment of history…….

  462. jackieblue2u July 27, 2011 at 4:01 pm #

    Good One !

  463. Cash July 27, 2011 at 4:04 pm #

    What I notice is that American and Canuck liberals are abysmally clueless about the world and its cultures outside their own countries and, in our case in Canada, outside their own cities. What they seemingly cannot or refuse to grasp is that people from different parts of the world do not all think alike or think the way we do here in North America.
    I’ll pick one example from my own personal experience: one fella from the Philipines used to report to me about 15 years ago so I had a chance to become acquainted with him. One thing he said struck me: he did not understand why it would be considered wrong for a govt official to give jobs to his family and friends as it’s his duty to take care of them if he can. Nepotism in other words. Or, as we might see it, corruption. Forget merit and all that and giving everyone a fair shot at govt jobs or contracts. Lord knows we have a fair bit of nepotism here. But we see it as a no no. Politicians can’t get caught doing such stuff. But, according to him, folks in the old country see this thing differently as such practices are rampant back there.
    What I’ve seen in this place is that after one or two generations people cast off their old national and ethnic and racial affiliations and intermarried and subsumed themselves culturally in the greater Anglo Saxon cultural whole. Which IMO is the key to social harmony and civic solidarity. You don’t generally kill what you see as your own kin or go to war against your own countrymen and fellow citizens.
    What bugs my ass enormously is a policy of official multiculturalism which encourages the exact opposite. And an astounding liberal ninny-ism that can’t call Canada’s culture what it is: Anglo Saxon. We speak English, read English language literature, abide by English common law, vote for a Westminster style parliament etc etc. But to assert to abundantly obvious is to leave liberals bug eyed and gasping for air.
    IMO the sooner we assimilate immigrant newcomers in our society and economy the happier and better off everyone will be. Especially the newcomers. They’ll feel more at home and less as outsiders. What cannot happen is for us and them to keep thinking of them as Korean or Chinese or Indian or whatever.

  464. ctemple July 27, 2011 at 4:08 pm #

    At times I see JHK less as a social critic, than being like the noir type crime writers of the 1930’s and 1940’s, like Raymond Chandler or James M Cain. They wrote about a dark world of corrupt officals, greed, and violence, full of paranoia and bad endings. That sounds quite a bit like where we are at now, at least to me.
    Caleb Temple

  465. jackieblue2u July 27, 2011 at 4:11 pm #

    That’s good playin’.

  466. old69 July 27, 2011 at 4:27 pm #

    ZERO
    Zero is a metaphysical concept, should not exist, a non number should not be part of the number system, all our mathematics and science and logic are flawed, it is amazing that any of it works at all, since this huge mathematical blunder has been going on for so long and no one noticed !
    Zero means the absence of a number, but then why not invent any other symbol as an absence of a number or quantity, the number system winds down and vanishes to zero but then the concept tries to make believe it is still there even though it is not, a quantity or number, symbolized as zero is still there when nothing is there, only a place holder, an imaginary entity with fake, imaginary properties.
    Interesting enough a non number can be any symbol at all like =)= and can keep on going in any direction according to any rules and any inventions and still be valid (like negative numbers, another logical mistake, another logical blunder, or imaginary numbers, the square root of a negative number and such), valid metaphysically, and as such demonstrates that there are more metaphysical items than particles in the universe, just associate each particle to a new kind of zero and so on.
    But then even 2 is metaphysical compared to 1, since who or what distinguishes 2 from 1, the space between the numbers ? the act of counting ? and many other extrapolations, go on invent it all, go on, it never ends, the universe is saturated with metaphysical entities and mysteries and absurdities, all false, all lies, all wrong. AMEN.
    3, 2, 1, 0, )=)=), ETT$, yhhh , eedd : multdimensional number systems, nay, symbol systems, nay logic systems, nay, language systems, nay decoding systems according to fluke neural circuits in modified wicked brains, NAY NAY NAY

  467. soak July 27, 2011 at 4:35 pm #

    Breivik was a Mason and no major Christian Denomination accepts that one can be both a Mason and a Christian.
    But the Masons do not preclude one being a Christian. In Christian cultures, like Norway, the Bible is central to a Christian Mason Lodge. Albert Pike identified the Bible as part of the furniture of the lodge in his book Morals And Dogma Of The Ancient And Accepted Scottish Rite Of Freemasonry.
    Some Christians claim Masonry is not Christian, based on their own interpretations. But that does not preclude Masons who hold a different interpretation from being Christians.

    Leading Masonic authorities in the 18th and 19th centuries held a distinctively Christian interpretation of Freemasonry. Such leaders as Rev. James Anderson, William J. Hughan, William Hutchinson, Rev. George Oliver, and others had a Christian view of their Craft. Hutchinson, in particular, noted that Jesus Christ was the example for the Master Mason. He stated, “The Master Mason represents a man under the Christian doctrine saved from the grave of iniquity and raised to the faith of salvation. As the great testimonial that we are risen from the state of corruption, we bear the emblem of the Holy Trinity as the insignia of our vows and of the origin of the Master’s order.”

  468. old69 July 27, 2011 at 4:40 pm #

    “One thing he said struck me: he did not understand why it would be considered wrong for a govt official to give jobs to his family and friends as it’s his duty to take care of them if he can. Nepotism in other words. Or, as we might see it, corruption. Forget merit and all that and giving everyone a fair shot at govt jobs or contracts.”
    The guy was right, there are so few areas and so few real justifications for inequality, for treating or giving more to someone else in a Technological Economy that has mostly done away with the concept of merit: maybe only about 100,000 people worldwide in all productive endeavors MERIT more than anyone else because of real talents or skills or whatever, the rest is just make believe power relationships, power structures, arbitrary choices of who gets ahead only because who gets ahead is the friend of someone else powerful and such. At least the guy isn’t a hypocrit and says things as they are: if you are the boss, you choose your friends without making believe that “objective” measurements are operating.
    Anways,so much corruption and so much breaking the rules of the game in the developed world (therefore so many lawyers)exists only because so much cash is hanging around, so many billions of dollars of free cash is hanging all around and everyone who has some power wants to simply grab some, they know the fairy tale of merit and “hard work” don’t make any sense anymore in today’s economy, an EXCESS CAPACITY ECONOMY generating trillions of dollars of free money and wealth, just look at all the trillions the rich and corporations have stashed away, not even knowing what to do with them.

  469. Vlad Krandz July 27, 2011 at 4:41 pm #

    Sure they’ll take your money – but will they loan you any? Or hire you? Now think Turk: if they have to choose between a White Contractor or one of their own Group, which you do you think they will hire? Don’t just shout out the first thing that pops into your head – likely to be wrong in your case. Work on it!
    Ever go into a Traditional Chinese restaurant? Will they serve you (take your money)? Yes. And probably be polite too. But expect that Chinese will be served first. Did the Chinese ever renounce their Race and Culture as “we” (you and your’s) have done? No they have not. That is a White Disease. We’re the only ones who only care about money – to our eternal shame. The Jews helped create this atmosphere, true. But it was for us! They never made any renounciation either.

  470. messianicdruid July 27, 2011 at 4:41 pm #

    “Brievik is a christian terrorist.”
    “Depart from me, all you who do iniquity, for the Lord has heard the voice of my weeping.”
    “Not everyone who says to Me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?” And then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness” (Gr. anomia).
    Jesus made it clear that there would be lawless Christians. For three years Judas called Jesus “Lord” and may well have performed miracles along with the other disciples. Judas was Jesus’ disciple and friend (Matt. 26:50). Yet he betrayed Him into the hands of the chief priests. Judas was the believer, and the chief priests were the unbelievers, but all of them were lawless in their own ways, as are judeo-christians today.
    The prophet Jeremiah said there were two types of “figs” from the fig tree of Judah. There are good figs and evil figs. The good figs are those that peaceably submit to the judgment of God, and there are those who would rather fight and die {Jer. 24-30}. This was true in Jeremiah’s day, it was true in Jesus’ day, and now we see it again in our day. Jesus said of these people in Matthew 11,
    “And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force.”
    Jesus denounced the belief that the Kingdom of God must be taken by violence and force. Forty years later, God brought judgment and captivity upon Judah, this time at the hand of Rome, and today we are under judgement at the hand of Mystery {hidden} Babylon. It was/is all for the same reasons that we find in the writings of Jeremiah. One would think that the people would have learned, since they claimed to believe the writings of Moses and the prophets, and now the teachings of the Prince of Peace.
    Please, for Jesus’ sake, learn to differentiate between christians and judeo- [antinomian]christians.

  471. soak July 27, 2011 at 4:45 pm #

    Legal experts say if the president were tempted to act unilaterally he might escape without his actions being overturned in court.
    Regardless of how controversial a 14th Amendment maneuver might be, a legal challenge would be very hard to mount and so far, no one has stepped forward to say they would challenge him in court.
    Nor has anyone said they would sue him if he took the alternative, equally controversial, step of using his broad authorities as guardian of the constitutional order to unilaterally raise the borrowing threshold.

  472. Vlad Krandz July 27, 2011 at 4:47 pm #

    SJ are you listening to your wise lil sis? Better get packing – Salt Lake City here you come. You go Girl!
    Good on you Jackie for speaking the unpopular truth.

  473. trippticket July 27, 2011 at 4:50 pm #

    OK, after a few days of obvious hemming and hawing, we just called AT&T to cancel our ISP at home! By midnight we will no longer be entangled with the matrix.
    Here goes nuthin’! [Pinch nose between thumb and finger, close eyes, and…]
    Best of luck to you guys;)

  474. Vlad Krandz July 27, 2011 at 4:51 pm #

    Yes but we’re talking about what Christians believe – they have the right to say whether Breviak is a Christian – not the Masons.
    Mental agility is not Wisdom. Hint: worldly wisdom is just the higher ocatave of common sense. And worldly wisdom leads to resignation and a kind of despairing peace. And with that, the Lord can work.

  475. Qshtik July 27, 2011 at 4:56 pm #

    I’ve been sitting here today with a schadenfreude* grin on my face.
    *schadenfreude is a German word that translates most accurately into American English as “shit eatin” although it’s not defined that way in the dictionary.
    In case you have forgotten (I haven’t) or never even noticed (I noticed), Tootsie informed us 8 days ago (7/19) at 4:30PM, referring to Ford, that he had “purchased some of their stock today.”
    Ten minutes later at 4:40PM he told us “I already owned some Ford at a higher price point but I doubled up yesterday.”
    I’ll go with the first sentence that says he bought Ford “today” (ie the 19th). Surely in the span of 10 minutes he would remember whether he had bought it today or yesterday. But claiming to have bought “yesterday” would make him look somewhat smarter than “today” since the stock gained nearly 1.5%. This is what he realized during those 10 minutes.
    But putting aside for the moment whether he bought on 7/18 or 7/19 what he did was make the classic error of all would-be Wall Street whiz-kids … he figured he’d “average down.” I’ve done it myself. It gives one the illusion they’ve cut their loss in half. Trouble is, a trend in motion tends to stay in motion so that second batch of Ford might continue to fall along with the first batch, which it has. As counter-intuitive as it may seem, the wiser strategy more often is to “average up.”
    And BTW, I love the use of the term “price point. He “already owned some Ford at a higher price point.” Translation: leave out the fancy retailing language (like my daughter who works for Ralph Lauren uses) and the simple fact is Tootsie bought Ford at a higher price and has been taking a beating ever since.
    But back to the second batch of Ford, probably bought on 7/19. We don’t know what he paid per share but let’s say it was at the midpoint between the opening price of $13.00 and the closing price of $13.09, namely $13.045.
    Well, it is now 8 days later and Ford closed today at $12.37 making for a 5.2% loss. And that’s not to mention the bath on the first batch. If he could manage to lose at this rate compounded every 8 days for a year his loss would be ~91%. The man is a genius … and HE complains about JHK’s market predictions. Bwa ha ha.
    There are at least two conclusions to be drawn:
    . Tootsie is no Wall Street wizard
    . Only fools publicly brag about their trades

  476. soak July 27, 2011 at 4:59 pm #

    Please, for Jesus’ sake, learn to differentiate between christians and judeo- [antinomian]christians.

    MD, which of the antinomian doctrines are you referencing? In the early church, as a species of Gnosticism, antinomian doctrine said that sin is an incident of the body, and that a regenerate soul cannot sin. Later, in the Reformation, as a reaction against the doctrine of good works in the Roman Catholic Church, antinomian doctrine said that man is saved by faith alone, regardless of his obedience to or disobedience of the moral law as a rule of life. Or were you referring to antinomian doctrine that as a phase of extreme Calvinism, in English Puritan theology, said that the sins of the elect are so transferred to Christ that they become his transgressions and cease to be the transgressions of the actual sinner.
    For God’s sake, MD, be specific about your antinomian doctrine. Define your terms. Learn to differentiate between the antinomians.

  477. soak July 27, 2011 at 5:06 pm #

    No, we are talking about Breivik and how he identified himself. His actions, and his choice of date for his actions, speak long and clear that he considered himself on the side of Christians. Breivik chose July 22, which was the day in 1099 that the Kingdom of Jerusalem was established during the First Crusades.

  478. ront July 27, 2011 at 5:06 pm #

    “But, IMO, the sycophants of the TEA Party already think they ARE the super rich. The propaganda started before Reagan, perhaps – but those “supply-siders” perfected it to the point that the TEA’s all think of themselves as Entrepreneurs, Investors, and soon to be Wealthy Persons Who Need a Tax Cut.
    “weirdly. effective. propaganda.”
    This is identity politics at its “finest.” The think-tankers must get a great thrill when they know citizens are voting against their own self-interest, much less, the common good, because of their identifying with the ruling elite or at least being among those who get “in” with them as henchmen or puppets. George Lakoff has written and spoken about this for some years.

  479. Vlad Krandz July 27, 2011 at 5:15 pm #

    You’re sticking your toe into some deep waters here. Most Liberals don’t really believe their rap because they don’t walk the walk. Passionate BELIEF in racial equality is something that binds their tribe together and makes them separate and better than those loathsome ordinary trailer park Whites. But none of this means they actually like Blacks or even know any. And to the extent they do have contact, they try to limit it to Blacks of their own Socioeconomic group. Yet they cheerfully and even gleefully throw other Whites to the Black Wolves.
    Alot of Blacks mirror this world view. Sure they belive themselves equal (which means better) than Whites, but do they really believe that? Do you think they care about a Black mother killing her child as much as they care about Casey Anthony doing it? With Casey, they get feel superior. If they were really superior (or even equal) they’d be paying alot more attention to their own Mothers and Children.
    The Blacks and Indians were correct about Jessica Lynch. There is a cult of the White Woman, the epitome of which is the Nordic Blonde. Her story was embellished and the other Women Soldiers forgotten. More of the same hypocrisy from Liberals – who controll the Media. How to fix it? It can’t be in my book. Multi-racial Nations end up squabbling and competing themselves to death or else wisely divide.
    Latin America is the same. The people are brown but the media stars are White and fake Blonde. These other groups want to BE us you see – thus hair dyes and extensions etc. This attraction to us helps keep them subjugated – along with AA, welfare, set asides, and of course, ritual violence against throw away Whites. Let them go against the White Elite and see what happens. Needless to say, this is all understodd and condoned by the White Elite. If ordinary Whites try to defend themselves there is often hell to pay. That’s rocking the boat and is not allowed.

  480. ront July 27, 2011 at 5:17 pm #

    We need to bring back the excise taxes along with progressive rates. This will discourage the Big Biz and WallStreeters or send them to live elsewhere to which I say, “Good riddens, Brothers.”
    We also may want to have some leadership people who can explain what the heck is going on, and who can, also, appeal to the honor, generosity, and integrity of the citizens (yeah, it’s still in there, don’t worry). Self-interest is what has brought us to this point. Reintroducing the beautiful concept of self-sacrifice and brotherly and sisterly feelings of love would begin to foster very creative ways to live and work in harmony.

  481. San Jose Mom 51 July 27, 2011 at 5:19 pm #

    When it comes to getting parking spots in San Francisco, if I hesitate, I lose! If I left parking up to my husband, we’d get a really big space down in San Mateo County.

  482. Vlad Krandz July 27, 2011 at 5:20 pm #

    Yes now we are full circle and you are none the wiser. He identied himself as a Crusader, a Knight Templar, a Mason – and not a Christian. He wanted Christianity for other, lesser European Whites. He valued that Culture because it fostered, or allowed for, or at least tolerated what He liked: Science, free thought/speech and the natural religion/brotherhood of Masonry.
    You are refuted.

  483. San Jose Mom 51 July 27, 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    Too many Mormons in Salt Lake City–the world’s most irritating religion. I can say that because my ancestors crossed the plains with Brigham Young.
    SJmom
    Recovering Mormon (27 years)

  484. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 5:31 pm #

    I read that 20% of Americans think that they are in the top 1% of the income brackets.
    That goes along with the vast majority of Americans who think that they are “middle class”, unless they are actually eating from dumpsters.
    And, sometimes, even then.
    And, as you point out, most believe that they are one lottery ticket away from being rich.

  485. soak July 27, 2011 at 5:34 pm #

    I accept your refutation. I am wrong.
    Equally, I refute that any of the jihadists who use violence are Muslims. Islam is a religion of peace. The Greater Jihad is spiritual, not physical. By their actions they disqualify themselves from being Muslims, regardless of how they self-identify. Isn’t this fun, Vlad?

  486. soak July 27, 2011 at 5:35 pm #

    Have you seen “The Book of Mormon”? I can’t wait to see it one day.

  487. budizwiser July 27, 2011 at 5:41 pm #

    There are only two industries in the US that need massive expansion. Recycling.
    And recycling infrastructure into lower carbon-consuming formats.
    Along with health care and agriculture these practicalities should account for over half of the GDP – but then again – that assumes a selfless population willing to live without avarice.
    To mention these kinds of things – I’m looked upon as childish or immature. To what other ends is any other thought on the subject?

  488. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 5:46 pm #

    I can’t remember the neighborhood, but the best thing is to park at the end of the J Church line, and take the best ride in the world to downtown!

  489. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 5:49 pm #

    Everyone now tends to think of Americans as selfish and extravagant, but Americans used to be resourceful and thrifty.
    It’s all in the marketing, both of goods and of labeling of people.
    I think that we could be resourceful and thrifty again.

  490. soak July 27, 2011 at 6:11 pm #

    I think that we could be resourceful and thrifty again.
    ——————-
    I agree. And here is how to do it living on $12,000 a year:
    http://w4.telcen.com/simpleliving.html
    Living with little income has the advantage of not paying taxes to support wars being waged in our name.

  491. wagelaborer July 27, 2011 at 6:42 pm #

    I do all that stuff, and it costs me more than $12,000/year to live.
    I have lived on much less, and it was horrible.
    I expect to do it again, but I’m not looking forward to it.

  492. San Jose Mom 51 July 27, 2011 at 6:43 pm #

    I absolutely MUST see “The Book of Mormon, the Musical.” We were in NYC a couple of days after the trip to Europe and I tried to buy tickets a couple of months in advance. No luck…it’s completely sold out. But they are planning a traveling show, and I’m sure it will stop in San Francisco.
    I hate to admit it, but I rather like some of the episodes of South Park.

  493. lbendet July 27, 2011 at 7:37 pm #

    Lower Tases and they will hire:
    Don’t know whether anyone else addressed this but our friends at GE, ya know the big war contractor/media giant who paid no taxes last year, well they are moving their x-ray division to Beijing and sinking $1 Billion to start with with another billion afterwards.
    They will also be “innovating” where they manufacture as well, so the engineers will have to be there as well.
    Oh and that’s after Obama chose Jeffrey Immelt to head-up a jobs task force to create more jobs in the USA!
    So much for the Republican meme about cutting taxes for the wealthy–and no regulation!!
    So much for Obama hiring yet another Republican to help him out a little here. That ought to make Obama look like the adult!
    With this debt ceiling craziness we are living through the theater of the absurd meets the theater of cruelty!!

  494. messianicdruid July 27, 2011 at 7:51 pm #

    “md, which of the antinomian doctrines are you referencing?”
    Antinomianism