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Jet-Lagged and Ragged

     I am in a nation of super-models. The girls who sell tickets in the art museum are super-models. The girls behind the hotel desk, ditto. The clerk in the 7-Eleven shop (yes, 7-Eleven is here in Gothenburg, Sweden) could command the fashion runway in the New York Meatpacking District. Everywhere you look: super-models! They are healthy, tall, and beautiful. It must drive the men crazy. However the men, too, could all be super-models in GQ. And I must say, everybody wears very nice clothes.
    Now, I suppose you think this is superficial and fatuous. Maybe so. But it leads to some other observations. An inescapable one, of course, is that I have come from a nation populated by monstrous quasi-human creatures who might be described as land-whales, and who generally present themselves in clothing that a five-year-old European would be embarrassed to wear. But that might be superficial and fatuous, too.
     No, there is more going on with this. I first noticed it at the boarding gate area at JFK airport in New York, waiting for the flight to Berlin. For some reason there were a lot of teenagers on the flight. They were Euro teenagers. They were distinct from American teens. The Euro-teens acted like civilized people with what can only be called a sense of decorum. They were not costumed like clowns, criminals, sports stars, or zombies. Every day is not Halloween for them. Being a person seemed enough for them, as though the human condition were an honorable state-of-being. There were no obese Euro-teens. They were not stuffing their faces with pizza, French fries, and cinnabons. They were not obsessed with texting or other cell phone demonstrations of their social status. They waited patiently through the boarding delay and appeared to enjoy each other’s company without impulsive demonstrations, tantrums, tears, fights, or fits.
     When I got to Europe seven hours later I found myself in a world of purposeful adults who take care of themselves and the place they live in. It was the weekend. I was there for an architecture conference beginning Monday (hence the delay in this blog). For two days I walked all over Gothenburg, Sweden’s second-largest city, about the size of Buffalo, New York, in population, but far denser, more alive, and in much better condition. The streets of the little city were filled with these beautiful super-model people and their children. I saw something that is virtually unknown in the US: both parents enjoying the day in public places with their kids. As described above, there were no emotional histrionics from the kids, no tears and tantrums, even from the tiny ones. This detail was startling for one who lives in a nation where six-year-olds are called “motherfucker” by their moms.
     It gave me a fresh outlook on the tragically irresolvable banking crisis on-going here in Europe – though the Swedes themselves are not directly involved, since they still use the old krona currency. The European Union experiment began as a noble idea that has turned out badly. The Germans, who can’t seem to help being powerful and successful lately, attempted to preside over a general European peace and prosperity. Perhaps they are still trying to make up for the mad destruction they twice induced across the continent in the last century. In any case, the financial part of the recent peaceful era in Europe is now unspooling. The various Euro club member states, starting with Greece, can’t pay the interest owed to their bond-holders, can’t borrow more to keep running their government services, and face uprisings in the public square as standards-of-living collapse.
     The leaders of France and Germany can’t devise a plan to mitigate the situation that is not transparently absurd – such as offering further leveraged loans to fatally over-leveraged countries. They seem determined to protect the bond-holders and their banks, but their efforts are inadequate. It is very sad to see people so polite and adult-looking in such a terrible predicament. One thing it demonstrates, I suppose, is that decorum is not necessarily enough when facing the consequences of decisions that turned out badly. The doomed gentleman who serenely accepts a last cigarette from the officer in charge of the firing squad nonetheless must absorb the fury of the bullets, which will surely disrupt the activity in his vital organs, no matter how exemplary his bravery is.
     All of this financial trouble in Europe will also surely disrupt American banks, too, and may even drive several of them to their knees. On the trading floors of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan, sleek young Ivy League men and women in expensive clothing who call each other “motherfucker” probably deserve all the ruin that will rain down on their craven souls, but the nation would plunge into something worse than the Great Depression of yore whatever the fate of individual bankers. Occupy Wall Street may yet evolve into something that is not so much about singing “Give Peace a Chance.” When will they open a branch in Washington D.C. and camp out on the steps of the Federal Reserve, where they can greet the comings-and-goings of Fed officials with the charge that the Fed is a claque of lying motherfuckers whose interventions and manipulations are killing what’s left of the US economy? I suppose I reveal my essential American loutishness when I suggest that the horse-whip and fungo bat might be the only means to re-educate members of congress. It would be fun joining a mob to chase such puffed-up grifters around the D.C. mall – better, too, for all concerned than speed-walking on a cold morning.
One idea floating around the Internet is very good: a constitutional amendment aimed at redefining downward the alleged “person-hood” of corporations, so as to drive vast amounts of money out of our politics. Notice that the President of the US shows no interest in this idea. If the President were an honorable fellow, he would announce his intention to decline running for a second term. A free-for-all in the Democratic Party may be the only thing that can save it from extinction. Not since the Whigs under Millard Fillmore has a US political party been so feeble and purposeless. It can crawl off and die now. Something else will take its place, I’m sure. I wish Occupy Wall Street would show up at the next Republican candidates’ debate and hurl bushels of rotten tomatoes at the fakers and imbeciles arrayed on the stage. They need to be publicly humiliated beyond their own self-induced humiliations when they open their pie-holes to yap about “faith in God” and “liberty” and “family values” and all the other mendacious platitudes from their scanty trick-bag of so-called ideas. They make me ashamed to be an American – as if there wasn’t already enough.
     But I am still in Europe for another day and the spirit of the place has got under my skin. I sincerely hope they don’t fall to fighting among themselves again like they did a generation or two back. I do get the feeling, however, that if by some caprice of fate they end up fighting with America again, the next time they will kick our bloated, tattooed asses, no matter how many times we call them motherfuckers. Anyway, Wednesday, when I am winging back to New York, the Euro leaders will wrap up their umpteenth attempt to prop up the darn EU and absolutely everyone expects another grand failure. The super-models, the nice clothes, and all those polite, normal-sized children are some consolation, but it’s awfully sad to see the old place in such a pickle. I am missing the entire World Series. Obviously, I never really got over the jet lag. I’m speaking (and writing) as though I were a Swede speaking English. I can’t help it. You fall into their mannerisms.They speak well, but you always know they are Swedes, and I’m sure they know I am an American.


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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

438 Responses to “Jet-Lagged and Ragged”

  1. ctemple October 25, 2011 at 2:46 am #


  2. graestan October 25, 2011 at 2:50 am #

    You should mention the upcoming complete withdrawal from Iraq, ending to date one of our least successful social projects as a country (unless you consider killing a guy to be the only real objective), in your next column. Perhaps five to ten minutes after we pull out, whatever slapped-together farce of a democracy Iraq has in place at that minute will put the clamps down on their share of the earth’s creamy nougat center and help get our Long Emergency started.

  3. Liquid Lennny October 25, 2011 at 3:13 am #

    Like many of you I was in an extreme state of “mental anguish” on Monday morning to learn Jim was taken hostage while traveling near Europe. Though I wouldn’t have thought New Hampshire was so dangerous this time of year, we’re all aware world events are changing rapidly. Jim, just in case, quick F.Y.I., Berlin, Hew Hampshire is not in Europe.
    Word got out about the situation and the C.F’d.Nations distress. Soon in a rare demonstration of bipartisanship things in Washington were beginning to happen. At the Pentagon, Leon P. was dusting off the plans to invade “The Granite State” in the off chance of rescuing you. That was, until he was informed that N.H doesn’t have any valuable natural resources what so ever. Somehow “watching the fall foliage change” just doesn’t get the boys at Halliburton too excited. So sorry Jim, change of plans…
    Fortunately, we understand with only a bar of soap and a paper clip in hand you were able to fashion an internet link to the outside world and communicate to those of us here in this C.F’d Nation. So until we figure out what exactly to do we hope you enjoy your new accommodations. Also, so you know, we’ve drafted a letter asking D.S.K. for advice regarding room service recommendations and etiquette.
    As a side note, perhaps some of you noticed last week the passing of the Second Rapture. Apparently, just like the first one, it really did happen. Seems the main P.T.B. didn’t quite meet quota the first time around and has taken to accepting the second string players. So if you’re reading this I’ve got some bad news. Looks like we’re all third or forth stringers at best, and I know I’ve been accused of being overly optimistic. To think that potentially we’re on the same team as these fribbling Economic Advisor Clowns and edacious Financial Minister Excrement-heads is truly deflating to the nth degree.
    Keeping with today’s theme of “Euro-erupt” and “Mental Anguish” the first part of todays musical selection is a hauntingly beautiful piece that would seem appropriate as a Requiem for either Humanity or our Technology, I hope it’s not the former but time will tell. But then I guess it could be both. Please remember to hide all sharp or pointed implements prior to listening…
    Now to bring you all back from the abyss and continue the day on a high note what better way than to be immersed in an acoustic-electric masterpiece. Enjoy the following from Europe at its best:
    Until next week, Stay Liquid, Stay Frosty…

  4. andrei_timoshenko October 25, 2011 at 3:13 am #

    You know how sometimes (most times?) in a zoo you see the primates sickly from an amorphous but permeating sense of over-stress? That’s the feeling I get in a lot of the US (and the UK too for that matter). Advanced anglo-saxon society has gotten too human-unfriendly in structure and pace, and far, far too geared towards a dichotomy of either having to make money or having to spend it. Europe (especially the Nordics and parts of Switzerland and France) still retain a good sense of the world before it all went crazy. If the US can still style itself as the Land of Opportunity (to fuck people over), the best parts of Europe are still the Land of Possibility (to find oneself).

  5. Don October 25, 2011 at 3:26 am #

    We just toppled another secular government that was giving its people a reasonable standard of living, wasn’t indebted to the western banks, and had programs to actually help its people.
    And Jim can’t even gloat a little bit about USA kicking ass? Maybe he should just stay over there with those pussies in Europe.

  6. Dr. Doom October 25, 2011 at 3:31 am #

    Jim, you’re being a bit whimpy about the jet lag. What, New York is about 3 or at the most, 4 hours different from Sweden? Try 12 hours sometime. Well, I guess you did the last time you visited “down under”.
    I think Europe will be OK. The very qualities you mention will likely see them through the coming hard times. Americans, OTOH, won’t like losing all that exceptionalism. Happy Halloween.

  7. mdl17576 October 25, 2011 at 3:43 am #

    I’ve been enjoying your books and blogs for over a year now so I figured I would finally sign up and thank you for writing.
    I live in Albany, NY so reading WMBH was kind of surreal. Subconsciously I can’t help but think “Oh, there’s the UFO landing pad,” every time I pass the Rockefeller Plaza. I’ve also been spending some time next to the Capitol building with Occupy Albany trying to agitate for a more sane future. When you recover from the jet lag you should pay it a visit. Even there, I don’t see a lot of consciousness of peak oil… we could benefit from the presence of a luminary from that movement.
    Finally, some economically centered thoughts of my own:

  8. Tony W October 25, 2011 at 3:58 am #

    I find it odd that you would assume that all Euro teenagers are polite and where sensible clothes, on the basis of one group of them at one airport. Or that all Europeans are super-models, because you saw a few good looking people in a Swedish city.
    Perhaps that jet-lag has done something to your brain?
    Or was it all tongue-in-cheek?

  9. Jimmy Drinkwater October 25, 2011 at 4:01 am #

    Nice tale, I imagined walking around the city center as you were telling it and that particular sense of easy stepping serenity and grace that can pervade and seep into a visit there.
    Serene here too with the early AM posting time, in before the link Remoras and blog squatters start their ‘reply to’ tirades, as if anyone gives a shit, lol.

  10. Barstiat October 25, 2011 at 4:02 am #

    Here is why S&P downgraded the US credit rating.
    • U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
    • Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
    • New debt: $ 1,650,000,000,000
    • National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
    • Recent budget cut: $ 38,500,000,000
    Now let’s remove 8 zeros and pretend it’s a household budget.
    • Annual family income: $21,700
    • Money the family spent: $38,200
    • New debt on the credit card: $16,500
    • Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
    • Total budget cuts: $385
    “I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution – taking from the federal government their power of borrowing.”
    Thomas Jefferson, 1798
    “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes… Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.”
    Napoleon Bonaparte, 1815

  11. mow October 25, 2011 at 4:04 am #

    Lions ate him

  12. greenleaf108 October 25, 2011 at 4:32 am #

    James, you completely nailed it with your description of Sweden. I’m in Stockholm right now for a business trip and the contrast with the USA is striking.
    In Sweden almost no one is overweight, the bloated whale-like “People of Walmart” are conspicuous by their absence.
    Swedish citizens are sane, well-behaved and highly educated. It’s not uncommon to see moms and dads spending time with their well-behaved children at the parks or museums. There are no foul-mouthed 6-year-olds cussing at their parents because they can’t have the latest Xbox game.
    Here there is free medical care for everyone, and the government will pay *you* to go to school. Parents can take up to 480 days of paid maternity leave. The most socialist nation in the world has been running a budget *surplus* for the past several years and is in no danger of default like Greece, Italy, and Spain. People pay nearly 50% of their income in taxes and most consider the money well spent.
    Sweden boasts the highest literacy rate on the planet, and there are more female college graduates here than any other nation. Everybody is at a minimum bilingual; if you ask “Talar do Engelska?” they give you a look like “Of course I speak English, you silly American.” Even trying to speak Swedish is futile; as soon as you utter a few phrases they will switch to English to accommodate you.
    The last time I was here I was so sad to leave. Coming back to O’Hare airport caused a jarring reverse culture shock. Stepping back into the terminal, the first thing you see are rude TSA goons and fat obnoxious Americans screaming at each other while a vacuous government-produced infomercial about “America the beautiful” plays on a large flatscreen monitor on the wall.
    America was once a great country and something to be proud of. That is no longer the case; we lost our mojo many, many years ago.

  13. Pucker October 25, 2011 at 4:37 am #

    In addition to Obama, Congress, the Democratic Party, the Republic Party, and the Federal Reserve, what do you think of The Great Pumkin?

  14. Pucker October 25, 2011 at 4:40 am #

    It appears that former U.S. Secretary of State, Condoleeza Rice, and the Libyan dictator Gaddafi may have had an intimate sexual relationship:

  15. K October 25, 2011 at 4:51 am #

    Good one James! You don’t suppose I could temp you into packing a couple of those supermodels into your bags for the flight home? Analogously Speaking…

  16. Dr. Doom October 25, 2011 at 5:14 am #

    Ooops, it appears I am also a bit jet-lagged. You got yourself 6 or 7 time zones to Sweden from New York, not 3 or 4. That’s enough for some serious lagging.
    Your comments on the Swedes remind me of a flight I once took from London to Helsinki. The women were all blond statuisque Finns, both the flight crew and the passengers. I thought I was in a Robert Palmer video, not a bad place to be.

  17. kulturcritic* October 25, 2011 at 5:31 am #

    Well James – better late than never!!

  18. kulturcritic* October 25, 2011 at 5:32 am #

    And don’t forget that the Russians are also in this race!
    Enjoy, kulturcritic

  19. Newfie October 25, 2011 at 6:54 am #

    Sweden is over flowing with beautiful super models. Mmmm… Don’t they get old there ? Perhaps The Sandman knocks on the door on your thirtieth birthday and hands out a one way ticket to the Carousel. That would explain the super abundance of super models. Watch out for the Sandman, Jimbo.

  20. conchscooter October 25, 2011 at 6:58 am #

    I don’t think visiting one European state qualifies an observer to rate an entire continent by that single state observation. If all Europe were Sweden things would be different.
    Every paradise has it’s serpent and every time I regret leaving europe to live in the US I go back and change my mind. As bad as things are others are worse. That is until Mexico arrives by truck- as in, next week.

  21. lbendet October 25, 2011 at 7:06 am #

    You are what you eat
    Ever hear that expression?
    The nonsense that has been de rigueur in this country, you know the no regulations of the Heritage foundation and other neoliberal think tanks has resulted in a society where every intelligent plan is rejected as the nanny state and a course new and enlightened is called “socialism” is jeered by jingoistic responses, well this cultural/political de-evolution is the result.
    I am amazed that the Republicans are all jumping on the talking point train again about Obama’s birth certificate, as if they have so little faith in their minions that they just have to stoop so low to get the turn-out.
    JHK talks about the Democratic party but the Republicans have reached such a nadir as to hardly be anything but a bunch of lying louts without a single workable idea of how to fix the economy or get Amercians back to work.
    Oh, but when it comes to job-destroying free trade bills, all the sudden both parties sign on! They expose themselves as globalists in the worst sense of the word, corporatists and completely disinterested in what happens to this country.
    Bottom line is that in a nation of make-believe issues, make believe reasons to go to war to perpetuate the needs of no-bid private contractors, people who say social justice is godless, well need I say more about the sorry state of this nation?
    No wonder so many of our polity is so–oh how we say uncivil.

  22. progress2conserve October 25, 2011 at 7:08 am #

    Ah Sweden –
    A homogeneous land filled with beautiful, relaxed, and homogeneous people who do not consider individual selfishness to be the highest expression of the human enterprise.
    While the frenetic US population continues to grow and grow because of LEGAL immigration – with only the physical limits of Planet Earth to eventually stop us.
    How can anyone think that this real time experiment in resource shifts and population growth will end well for the Planet?
    Enjoy Europe, JHK! You make me want to emigrate.
    To their credit, the Swedes would soon catch me and deport me. Smart and forward thinking, are those Swedes.

  23. Jon Husband October 25, 2011 at 7:10 am #

    I just spent 6 weeks in France and western Germany (mostly around Paris).
    You are (in general) ever so right.
    However, the poor suburbs of large western European cities can be nasty places, tho’ but even there you don’t find the same kind of bovine idiocy on display and freely accessible almost everywhere in the US (and increasingly parts of Canada, where I live).
    There is something distinctly different going on. I put it down to the western Europeans not having a steady all-day long cognitive diet of American television and news broadcasts. The US has turned into a real-time low-rent television reality show.

  24. Max October 25, 2011 at 7:24 am #

    Yes fine, but you can keep your snooty Euro supermodels. In the USA, home of individualist innovation, the McRib sandwich is back on McDonald’s’ menus following a long hiatus.

  25. Paraquat October 25, 2011 at 7:58 am #

    Jim, someday hope you’ll visit Asia. Of course, a lot of individual countries here with differing levels of prosperity. But one thing you’ll notice is a real work ethic. It probably has something to do with the fact that America has been exporting its jobs to here.
    Peak oil will take its toll in Asia too, that is sure. But since most Asians aren’t energy gluttons to begin with, it will hopefully not bring about sudden collapse. Where I live, motor homes are unknown, and taking the train is a respectable way to travel.

  26. Arctic Fox October 25, 2011 at 8:13 am #

    Jim, why not stay in Sweden for a few more days? You went to the trouble of getting there. Now stay, and look around.
    Whatever is going to happen in the US will happen if you’re here or not. October in Sweden is chilly. Still, it’s OK. Soon comes winter.

  27. Neon Vincent October 25, 2011 at 8:31 am #

    Yesterday, I predicted you’d post about the European debt crisis, Occupy Wall Street, and the death of Gadaffi. Just like the last time I attempted this, I got two out of three, as there was no mention of Libya. Batting 0.667 isn’t bad. Instead, we got your observations of behavior and fashion, which you had kept out of your posts for a while. In fact, it had been so long that your doing so wouldn’t have occurred to me. Sometimes, it’s nice to be surprised.
    As for your wish that there would be a branch of the Occupy movement in DC, there is. My friends in the Coffee Party will be there for their own event, the Enough is Enough Citizens Intervention on October 29th. I’ll have to miss it, as I’ll be enjoying the last gasps of affordable international air travel and going down to Mexico on a business trip, which will also keep me away from the keyboard the entire next week. Since I won’t be posting here then, I wish you and your readers a Happy Halloween from Crazy Eddie’s Motie News!

  28. judithweingarten October 25, 2011 at 8:40 am #

    Jim, just wait until you fly back to JFK and you’ll see how third world we’ve become. Escalators won’t work properly, the walls badly need to be repainted, the wait for passport control (even for Americans) is endless, and goons will be shouting at people to stay in line. It’s hell. Crowded as European airports are, they are what we mean by ‘first world’ standards. We’ve even forgotten what that was.

  29. PeteF October 25, 2011 at 8:41 am #

    “I do get the feeling, however, that if by some caprice of fate they [i.e. the Europeans] end up fighting with America again, the next time they will kick our bloated, tattooed asses, no matter how many times we call them motherfuckers.”
    Jim, you’ve got to be kidding. I would say that today’s European military forces are on the same level as our National Guard, but that would be unfair to today’s Guard. Maybe the National Guard as it was during Vietnam. They may be polite and well-dressed, but I don’t think Europeans could fight their way out of a paper bag.

  30. Wolfbay October 25, 2011 at 8:41 am #

    Evidently you haven’t visited southern Sweden and Malmo.It’s on it’s way to becoming a Muslim immigrant majority city with a huge “ghetto”. There is a high crime rate and one police station has been attacked so many times they had to hire a private security firm to try to protect them. Reading a Swedish paper, they are sounding a little more like us everyday. Admittedly it’s still a very impressive country with a generally very honest bureaucracy. They are definitely not socialist. They have impressive private corporations that actually export ” things”. I’ve enjoyed visiting a number of times

  31. ozone October 25, 2011 at 8:54 am #

    In the context of JHK’s comparison piece, I sometimes wonder if ‘Murkin loutishness isn’t a genetic propensity!
    I mean, fer kri-sakes, even in the smoothly civilized city of Amsterdam, I’ve seen drunken ‘Murkin college-aged assholes get all loud and howl-y in the streets, yelling at each other about “where the pot and wimmens be at?”. Yep, let that inner lout out, motherfucker! (Just what’s wanted in the calm atmosphere of a coffeehouse; loud drunks. Highly discouraged!)
    Git yer mind right for a wagonload of trouble in this country when all the “cool shit” is no longer available to those who understand the value of nothing and are used to the easy accessibility of everything.

  32. insufferable October 25, 2011 at 8:54 am #

    Yes, Sweden, Germany, Denmark, Norway are filled with the beautiful people. They have not lost their sense of style, discipline and work ethic. However, they consist of countries filled with people have the same genetic stock for centuries. They did not import slaves from Africa, invent the light bulb, air conditioning,airplane or have the great immigration that occured in American in the last century. They are a reflection of what a country is like when there is no influx of other nations that constantly change its landscape. If America didn’t allow all of us in (a hundred years ago), most people here would be German, English, Dutch or Swedish. OH WELL, we have become a crass, fat, and impolite nation, but our strength lies in the fact that ALL the other countries have populations that live here and thrive for the most part. Our understanding of all the other nations is right here in America. If we can use our strength to unite us then we will remain strong. But if we loose ourselves in the false lies that the media and government feeds us every day then we will sink into the abyss. I really don’t know how to get back to the nation we were just a few short decades ago. It may take a catastrophe. But I pray that never happens.

  33. da wiznitch October 25, 2011 at 8:55 am #

    I would love to post the part about the “land whales” on my Facebook page, but unfortunately a lot of my friends are land whales and it might hurt their feelings.
    It’s awful to feel so ashamed of your country. I am partly ashamed of our gluttony and ignorance, but I was more ashamed of our war crimes such as torture, etc. But I felt very alone in this shame. It seems as if the very notion of identifying with your country to the extent that you could be ashamed of its behavior has vanished among Americans. Another thing to be ashamed of.

  34. katnip kid October 25, 2011 at 8:59 am #

    Man, I am so sick of hearing how the Europeans are better than we are. Yeah right. Hey, we got all-you-can-eat Chinese buffets! See, we ARE interested in other cultures! Plus, we gots the McRib! We rock. You got sometin’ to say ’bout that????
    Now, just to clarify, that was sarcasm, ‘kay? PS The folks with the big butts are nothing compared to the folks who eat at those buffets.

  35. katnip kid October 25, 2011 at 9:08 am #

    Yes, that is something to be afraid of, the day the relatively easy living stops, at least for people used to having everything whenever they want.
    I have started to see it in the ‘burbs that expanded into what was once farmland populated by nice people. Scary. It is that attitude of “You got it, we want it, so it’s ours” mentality.
    I worked PO in my presentation of alternative crops that could be or were grown locally.The teacher was very impressed, but the 18 year olds were sarcastic and unconvinced.
    Wow. Wait until they can’t find jobs….

  36. 1/4saw October 25, 2011 at 9:13 am #

    Hilarious! FYI The New Yorker did an article a while back about height and found while Americans not long ago were the tallest, they have shrunk (or not grown) like the northern europeans. I think the Dutch were the tallest now- an indicator of health and a successful society. These cities you speak of are also much closer to sustainability than ours in north america

  37. Lindsay Curren October 25, 2011 at 9:17 am #

    I liked this column, very funny!
    But lest we forget the outburst in Britain (last I recall a European nation) a month or so back when angry, misdirected youth took out their frustrations (however justified) on their own towns, raining down with a hail of bricks and fire. Not exactly what one associates with distinctly pan-European delightful behavior, coiffure, and haberdashery!
    Hasn’t Italy been the scene of some rather less-than-polite unrest, too, of late?
    Again, not that any of this is unjustified.
    But one might note that the #OWSers, whatever their undefined state as yet, are attempting to follow the nonviolent method of engagement and protest, however flamboyant are the mohawks, dreadlocks and zombie costumes that accompany it. And indeed, there is more substance there than meets the eye. I visited an encampment this week and was startled by the cogent albeit slow action that these folks were trying to achieve.
    At any rate, I pine for an ideal world too, where a measure of decorum, some appreciation for beauty, and a meaningful social set of relationships prevails with some honor. But Jim’s rarefied view in this instance doesn’t entirely square with competing evidence on the ground in Europe, both now and in the past.
    I just hope that as this Titanic does go down, it’s not only the wealthy in those lifeboats, however gentleely they manage to step their toes in and take a seat.
    –Lindsay Curren
    Transition Voice

  38. Headless October 25, 2011 at 9:21 am #

    “Reverse culture shock…”
    That says it all. Most Americans (some absurd number of which don’t even have a passport) have no concept of the concept…
    After spending my first year in a 1st world country with civilized people who don’t see courtesy as a weakness (Tokyo, Japan), I returned home to find that I simply could not bring myself to “go out among ’em,” staying in the house for the next six months. I actually felt nauseous several times when on necessary resupply runs to the dark center of the city. Reverse culture shock.
    What you might find hard to believe–as did I–is that I had the same violent emotional response to returning to the U.S. after living in Guatemala. Reverse culture shock…
    The U.S. is far below a third-world country. It has methodically taken all that is third world and immersed it in a sadistic brew of Dante’s concentric degenerations, leaving everything and everyone that is unfortunate enough to be flailing within coated, inside and out, with a noxious colorless slime; reeking of some fate worse than death…

  39. ozone October 25, 2011 at 9:21 am #

    As P2C and I have poked into before, shame can be a powerful (and positive) social modifier.
    Don’t feel alone, many of us feel ashamed of the “culture and mores” we see exhibited so SHAMELESSLY.
    It’s just not acceptable to express it in this country, it seems. Sign of weakness? Result of hyper-conditioning to crass consumerism? I dunno.
    I’m not some blue-nosed prig or prude, but barbarism is barbarism. For humans, life without scruples is nightmare made reality.
    Again, don’t feel you’re alone in this.

  40. Chris Balow October 25, 2011 at 9:34 am #

    I wonder how polite and well-mannered these Swedes would be without the lavish social programs that allow them health, retirement, and vacation benefits that most Americans could only dream of.
    These lavish social programs, mind you, will not survive the long emergency, being as they are a product of industrial energy production.
    And it’s not hard to be civil, I imagine, when you live in a nation that benefits so brazenly from America’s empire. These Swedes won’t dirty their hands by putting boots on the ground in the Middle East, but they won’t neglect to sell Americans cars (Volvo), household appliances (Electrolux) and furniture (IKEA). But I suppose we ignore how Europe cashes in on American firepower through our strange American habit (most popular in New England, though) of seeing Europe as the source of all the world’s class and sophistication.

  41. myrtlemay October 25, 2011 at 9:42 am #

    “Wow. Wait until they can’t find jobs….”
    And that would be, hmmmm….right about now.

  42. insufferable October 25, 2011 at 9:48 am #

    Has onyone here heard of the group Anonymous? I recently realized (I must be slow) that they are somewhat behind the Wall Street Protestors, the riots in England, etc. I logged onto various UTube bits they put out. Pretty Scary stuff. What do you think about them? Am I wrong?

  43. Widespreadpanic7 October 25, 2011 at 9:55 am #

    Message to OzoneP (non cryptic)
    Begin message. Turkey Shoot in Burlington Covey Road Lions Club property 12:00pm Sunday. Lot of fun, Pete. End message.

  44. mila59 October 25, 2011 at 9:59 am #

    I love it! Thank you for writing it up this way. It makes it much clearer.

  45. mila59 October 25, 2011 at 10:04 am #

    As is often the case, LBENDET has nailed things down beautifully. I salute him/her.

  46. Nathan October 25, 2011 at 10:08 am #

    You make Sweden sound quite nice James and I’m sure it is. A major contributor to their manufacturing and exporting success is their domestic motor vehicle industry. As well as this, they dig up iron ore. Being Australian, I can identify with that one. Our domestic motor vehicle manufacturing industry is not such a boon though – it limps along building what Americans would refer to as full size rear drive dinosaurs with unnecessarily large and powerful engines. It survives due to the presence of heavy import tariffs on competition.
    Will Sweden be a good place to experience the Long Emergency I wonder? Will people be so stylish, attractive and well adjusted if they have to try and grow a year’s worth of food in the short growing season up there? Keeping warm might quickly reduce the forests they have left. I’ll stick with my cool temperate mountain climate in sunny South Australia I reckon. Not everyone looks and dresses like a supermodel here, but we have land capable of growing most of the year and supporting fat lambs and calves all year.
    I enjoyed your contrast between the Swedish and American cultures though. Perhaps two more extremely different ostensibly western cultures would be hard to find. Keep up the faithful chronicling.

  47. charliefoxtrot October 25, 2011 at 10:09 am #

    lavish social programs, huh? did you not catch that they are paid for by taxes, and willingly? maybe because the taxes are going towards, wait for it…, society and it s needs! jackass!! that s what social programs are…lemme ask YOU- what do you get out of it when “america” get s “our” hands BLOODY & puts SOLDIERS with GUNS in SOVEREIGN NATIONS (on the ground- jackass!)?? maybe if “we”, i mean the military corporate complex, didn t spend as much credit as the rest of the world combined on endless fucking war then, A: we wouldn t be pissing whole populations off at us, & B: We, The People might HAVE the healthcare, gainful employment, time for our families, and PEACE of MIND you seem to begrudge our neighbors…jackass…

  48. newworld October 25, 2011 at 10:17 am #

    Civilization is discrimination.
    Now the highest value the ruling elite saddle us with in America is non-discrimination, but all that has done is turn America into a giant day care center for malcontents.

  49. The Mook October 25, 2011 at 10:28 am #

    JHK, Right on, Motherfucker. On a related note, my 94 year-old neighbor says he wants to live long enough to see the “Half-breed” denied a second term. I think he is also ashamed of this country and its twits. Another life-long military man completly amazed by the pathetic long-term outcome of WWII.

  50. Smokyjoe October 25, 2011 at 10:33 am #

    Maybe Sweden is just different. Having not visited, I can’t say. Maybe I like hanging out with the riff-raff of the Old World, being a bit riff-raffish myself.
    Jim, you need some time among the chain-smoking stroller-mommies covered with tattoos in Limerick, Ireland, the Gothic creepy kids of Madrid, the graffiti “artists” and vandals of Athens, the pickpocket heroin-addicts of Barcelona, and the fat lager-louts in the pubs of London.
    Then you might revise your opinion that Euro-youth are all as fine a specimen of humanity as the gamboling supermodels of Gothenburg.
    It’s true that all of the Euro kids I noted above do not text-message 24/7. It might have something to do with costs of wireless plans.

  51. ubs October 25, 2011 at 10:35 am #

    You forgot to mention that Sweden will be a Muslim-majority nation in a couple of decades. It won’t matter if they are land whales or super models. They all look the same under a Burka.

  52. And So it Goes October 25, 2011 at 11:00 am #

    Thanks Jim,
    Great Post…

  53. bossier22 October 25, 2011 at 11:06 am #

    I would love to know where you lived in Guatemala. The time I spent down there I found it depressing. The most hopeless area of my backwater rural county I thought was more hope filled place than any place i saw in Guatemala. Overpopulation and poverty. i did , however meet some very nice people. I also met some kids begging on the street .
    As far as sweden is concerned, It is like comparing apples to oranges with the U.S. Sweden is lightly populated and a homogenous ethnic mix. The U.S. circa 1960 would be a more fair comparison. I have read where literacy was higher then than now. I was only a kid then but it seemed like a more virtuous society than today.

  54. helen highwater October 25, 2011 at 11:06 am #

    Don’t you mean “the Swedes are too smart to dirty their hands by putting boots on the ground in the Middle East”? It hasn’t worked out too well for America.

  55. nighthorse October 25, 2011 at 11:07 am #

    It seems rather strange the the proprietor of “Clusterfuck nation” would object to the use of the word “motherfucker.”

  56. helen highwater October 25, 2011 at 11:10 am #

    Your neighbour sounds like a racist. It’s people like that that make the country something to be ashamed of.

  57. Paul Kemp October 25, 2011 at 11:15 am #

    Just thought I’d drop a note to say I’m happy to hear there is still intelligent life in the universe, after all. It simply exists mostly outside U.S. borders.
    Your column today reminds me that there is hope for the future, not by changing fifty years of bad conditioning here, but by expatriating.
    My hope is that by electing Ron Paul President this country can slowly come to its senses. We can stop invading resource-rich nations to ostensibly protect their people from tyranny. What BS! But many of our citizens believe it.
    Something else that fascinates me is the way so many Americans can be convinced that it is acceptable, normal, and even cool to be fat. Is it a designer mental virus that has been unleashed on us by General Mills or Pillsbury? Something has taken over much of our population’s minds and destroyed their self-respect. Scary!
    Good to know that there is still a general respect for maintaining one’s appearance, health, and intellectual abilities in much of the world. Now, to get there!

  58. ozone October 25, 2011 at 11:22 am #

    Thought it might be youse. Good to “see” yez!
    Wonder what the [likely draconian] laws are about totin’ shootin’-irons crost to CT?
    Hmmmm; have to look that up.
    Keep having fun, whatever you do. In touch soon-ish. (A bit on the crazy side at the mo’. ;o)

  59. Paulus October 25, 2011 at 11:27 am #

    Sweden’s national debt (as a GDP percentage) has been falling. Obviously some of the Europeans are able to manage their finances. http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=sw&v=143
    The Germans too produce some exquisite women. I met a couple of teenagers who were almost too beautiful to look at, something you remember all your life.

  60. dsimeonov October 25, 2011 at 11:31 am #

    Na ja, look at our debt here – http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=143&c=bu&l=en

  61. steve from virginia October 25, 2011 at 11:39 am #

    American government is bad, the EU governments are also bad. US candidates are monstrous … all are angels compared to the Japanese government which is on a par w/ the worst in history.
    The Japanese establishment irradiates their citizens for the benefits of some business cartels, the suffering of the Japanese citizens is at the beginning.
    The 20th century seemed to have a monopoly on horrific governments: the Kaiser’s, the Tsar’s, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Mobutu, Idi Amin and Saddam, the Taliban and various in North Korea …
    The 21st century is starting off on the wrong foot …

  62. J Lee October 25, 2011 at 11:44 am #

    Lots of nonsense today Jimmy. I regularly travel in western Europe, although not so much in the Baltics, and it is indistinguishable from the USA. The people are fat. The kids rude. And the food greasy and fast. And you can still buy your smokes from vending machines on the street. And don’t imagine that you can get by with English, because the average person knowns his own language just like here in the good ol USA. The French speak French, the Germans German and the Italians Italian.

  63. bgoedecke October 25, 2011 at 11:46 am #

    Looking at the world bank figures (on google’s public data exporter) Sweden, to my surprise, is listed with higher electricity consumption per capita (prob due to the cold weather). It has much lower CO2 emissions. (there was no category for liquid fuel consumption) Looking at a Swedish Energy Agency’s 2009 report and taking the figures for gross energy production and putting it into Excel, crude oil products make up 32% of the mix and nuclear 26%. Biofuels, biomass, make up 22%. As I recall from previous readings, their biofuels, biomass, is not ethanol, but locally generated (forest product, garbage). Wind makes up .4% and there is no solar to speak of. So how it would make out in a long emergency given this? Having an homogenous population will probably help and having a more socialist mindset would also help, since both will add to the sense of shared sacrifice. Prob more dependence on biomass and pop decline.

  64. DeeJones October 25, 2011 at 11:53 am #

    “Jim, you’ve got to be kidding. I would say that today’s European military forces are on the same level as our National Guard, but that would be unfair to today’s Guard. Maybe the National Guard as it was during Vietnam. They may be polite and well-dressed, but I don’t think Europeans could fight their way out of a paper bag.”
    Oh please, surly you have heard of NATO? Armed to the teeth with the best weapons that the US can GIVE them. Why do you think we still have bases of occupation all over Europe? Just in case they get the idea they don’t like us anymore.
    But you know what? I bet that if Europe really ever wanted to, they could and would be able to kick our butts outta there, and real fast too. And don’t forget that France still has its own, independent nuclear missile force, and somehow I get the feeling that it hasn’t been aimed at Russia for a long time now.
    But go ahead and live in your fantasy video game world. But don’t be surprised if REALITY wacks you upside the head someday.

  65. dale October 25, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    Four years back, this website was all about Peak Oil and the impending doom which was set for 2010-2012 (“at the latest!!!, isn’t it obvious???!!!) the true believers might wail…..and I’m sure there are a large number of them still lurking out there. By now of course, the date of Armageddon must be 2014-2016 (“you’re so stupid!!!, can’t you see it???!!!). But even JHK’s zeal has diminished, and he seems to have lost his Peak Oil hard-on for a return to pulling a plow instead of writing weekly diatribes. Meanwhile the oil supply seems sufficient for him to keep jetting around commenting on this and that.
    Of course…..Peak Oil is inevitable, its just that no body knows when….or if it will even matter when it happens. The variables are simply limitless, and the human mind seems wired to imagine otherwise. Man’s greatest conceit is to imagine he knows what will happen next. But we all like to play the game of being the one who knows the future, and it IS damn good fun. JHK’s the fortunate one, he gets paid for it.
    I will offer up this example of soothsaying, a scenario with its own limits and possibilities, more likely than many of JHK’s I would venture……but then, I’m just some crazed Pollyanna who thinks that cars will run on overgrown zucchini by… ohhhhh…….2016? You be the judge…..http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8844646/World-power-swings-back-to-America.html?source=patrick.net

  66. anti soak October 25, 2011 at 12:05 pm #

    Reposting this, I posted it y’day.
    Am also leaving Ozones reply….which I wont answer.
    Finland: Priest accused of inciting religious hatred for calling jihad terrorists “terrorists”
    This out-Orwells Orwell….
    “Finnish priest persecuted for speaking out against terrorists,” from RT, April 7 (thanks to Paul):
    A priest in Finland is being accused of inciting religious hatred after he described one of the world’s most-wanted criminals as a ‘terrorist’.
    ­Police have questioned Pastor Juha Molari after he gave an interview to RT in which he discussed Doku Umarov, the man behind the Moscow metro and airport bombings.
    Russia’s number one outlaw Chechen terrorist Doku Umarov is also high-up on the international most-wanted list. But it seems one of Russia’s neighbors isn’t interested in helping bring him to justice.
    “I use the word terrorist. They use the word president,” Molari explains.
    The pastor has been a long-time critic of a website called the Kavkaz Center, where extremists freely express their views.
    The site was the first to publish the terrorist’s words on the attacks claimed by Umarov, and is banned in many European countries but freely operates in Finland.
    Apart from facing being defrocked for speaking out against Doku Umarov and his internet mouthpiece, Juha Molari is receiving threats of a different kind.
    “We advise you to stop your activity against the Kavkaz Center. If you don’t come to your senses we’ll cut off the heads of you and your family”, one of them says.
    Author Profile Page pirucitizen replied to comment from charliefoxtrot | October 24, 2011 3:45 PM | Reply
    If it’s the only one, then the experimental solar plant in question is located in the Mojave desert somewhere in the Boron/Barstow area. I’ve driven past it before.
    Apparently the heat transfer liquid media, which has a catchy psuedo scientific name that I can’t remember, has been blamed for a higher than normal birth defect rate among plant employees. It seems that nothing comes without a price.
    ozone replied to comment from anti soak |
    October 24, 2011 6:38 PM | Reply
    Thanks for the info.
    And how, exactly, does this affect you?

  67. anti soak October 25, 2011 at 12:08 pm #

    No longer Homogenous….7% [?] Muslim, taking in Immigrants that breed like, well, African and middle eastern Mooslums.

  68. anti soak October 25, 2011 at 12:11 pm #

    Lotsa [150?] Swedish Students at Santa Monica JC..
    their Govt loans em 80K [?] to study here..
    They are uniformly Beautiful and well behaved..
    thin and cosmopolitan.
    One told me of a port city [gottenborg?] thats fulla crime and rapes…and guess who he blamed?

  69. DreamCycle October 25, 2011 at 12:16 pm #

    For many years I have tried to pin point just when it was that Americans lost their self-respect. I believe Michael Moore touched on it when he noted, in the Columbine film, that Canadians had many more guns that we do but far fewer gun crimes. His theory seemed to be that people in Canada are treated more humanely and are valued more (National Health, better education etc) by their government, and this makes them less angry and not as prone to self loathing. It feels very right to me. As a Chicagoan one can see, every day, what this self loathing does to entire areas of the city. And the pols have only gotten worse. All Daley ever wanted was to turn Chicago into Manhattan, by swishing up the tourist areas and chasing out as many poor people as possible. Result–this horrific murder rate, and the fact that 200,000 African Americans left the city. Emmanuel is even worse. And now you can’t even wear jewelry on the el without worrying that you’ll be assaulted. Like many people on this blog, I cheer the Occupy folks and join them!

  70. kleymo October 25, 2011 at 12:17 pm #

    I wish Occupy Wall Street would show up at the next Republican candidates’ debate and hurl bushels of rotten tomatoes at the fakers and imbeciles arrayed on the stage.
    It is clear you are suffering from jet-lag. The usage of “arrayed” in paragraph 8 is incorrect. The correct word is “braying.”

  71. ozone October 25, 2011 at 12:22 pm #

    Some 1460 comments on that opinion piece.
    I wonder what they’re saying?

  72. SilkyPHX October 25, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    I second Greenleaf 108s comment

  73. JBPravda October 25, 2011 at 12:24 pm #

    Notwithstanding (what a strange word) your lag, you nailed the central organizing principle of Americanism, especially its youth (and its older imitators): ‘cool’, we must strive to be freaking cool, baby…………..thanks, Elvis, you wanker.
    Having traversed Europe, including Sweden, it’s obvious: they’re not about cool as a way of acting, but as a way of being.
    Like I said, thanks, Elvis, you got out early, thanks alot.

  74. loveday October 25, 2011 at 12:29 pm #

    Have to say I was very surprised at your post today. Sweden may be civilized, but it can’t possible have escaped your notice that the ECB is a very barbaric institution. Please, the people in Greece are undergoing a shakedown that would make the mafia blush. So much for European civility.
    Later dude

  75. PDA October 25, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

    AGAIN with the tattoos. One fears that some “bloated, tattooed” person hurt Jim once.
    On behalf of the millions who choose to partake of the ancient tradition of tattooing and body are who are NOT “clowns or criminals…” how about you back off, guy?

  76. charliefoxtrot October 25, 2011 at 12:46 pm #


  77. charliefoxtrot October 25, 2011 at 12:49 pm #

    @ CFN: probably not; he would ve picked up on ‘possible’ prior…

  78. Jersey New October 25, 2011 at 1:03 pm #

    Does Sweden still have the highest suicide rate?
    Also, in response to Barstiat, I’m told the problem is that when economies have floating currencies, the government does not operate the way a household does.

  79. anti soak October 25, 2011 at 1:11 pm #

    Dale………its good to know you are playin devils advocate to Jimmy doom and gloom Kunstler..
    This article…you believe it?
    US can compete with 3$ a day Asians?

  80. sfnate October 25, 2011 at 1:16 pm #

    Of course, Swedish culture is much older than our own–let’s say that maybe they’ve matured through the centuries to something resembling adulthood, while we are barely emerging from infancy. The fact that so many Americans are obese (or nearly so) even suggests a soft baby-ness, a pre-conscious state of polymorphous perversity that is being exploited by the slightly more clever but amoral adolescent frat-boy/sorority girl gangs that run amok discharging the executive functions of these monstrous parental surrogates called “corporations”. Or, more precisely, maintain the corporate-governmental axis that effectively controls and manipulates the appetites of the babies in our vast and untidy continental nursery.
    A study was recently done that asserts that during adolescence and the teenage years, the child is essentially insane, liable to take wild risks and behave in ways that endanger its own life and the lives of others. Our nation is well into it adolescence, and has behaved like a spoiled child that has had its every whim satisfied. We have become an insufferable and dangerous brat. Eventually every playground bully is exposed and perhaps our day of reckoning is very near. We’ll be lucky if we get the opportunity to mature as gracefully as the Swedish apparently have.
    But maturation can’t be rushed and takes time–unfortunately, time is not something we have a lot of in these dark days of terminal material decline.

  81. Consultant October 25, 2011 at 1:18 pm #

    The truth hurts but you nailed it.
    When a country like ours gets this fucked up, it means the culture is fucked up. It takes a long time or dramatic events to change culture.
    If history tells us anything, it’s going to get much worse before it gets better.
    What that “better” might be, I have no idea.

  82. JBPravda October 25, 2011 at 1:22 pm #

    Jim’s got it right, like the dude said in ‘Leaves of Grass’, sing the body electric, and, um, leave off the crass tatoo.

  83. anonymouse October 25, 2011 at 1:22 pm #

    Künstler – this is a perfect example of why i don’t like your books. you talk about how fantastic sweden is and compare it to the usa BUT you don’t compare WHY there is a difference…..yet you support the very thing that destroyed the us. you voted into office a man that had ZERO experience. why did you vote this guy in….?..being part of the cool ‘in crowd’…?
    the dumbing down of america and the BS political correctness and reparations BS caused the decline. sweden doesn’t allow illegal immigration. they don’t promote a person based on the occupation of their great great great grandfather.
    say it…! stop being a f’ing p%ssy….oh wait. you get paid to be the doom writer. it use to be the ‘end of the world’ with peak oil but that didn’t sell so well so you toned it down to we are somewhat doomed but you still need to buy my books.
    you are just like ron paul. just be edgy enough to carve out your part of the scene but then never DO ANYTHING….!
    there is your answer of why america isnt like sweden…you are a sell out for money. you sold out your values in life for a buck…………..

  84. ed nelson October 25, 2011 at 1:23 pm #

    As a “tourist” in a place like Sweden, I think you may not realize right away, but after some time there (Norway mostly) I came to an impression, that there is a powerful self consciousness there of their national image, and the need to preserve it. Which is sensible when you calculate the benefit to… the tourist industry! IOW’s it is a business.
    As a business it is run very well, the zoning laws favor the “boutique” antique farmsteads of centuries ago, hay piled on fences to dry, potato, and strawberry plots, a huge grindstone on display to sharpen scythes, it’s cuter than heck.
    In Russia they had a town set aside for the specific purpose of impressing international visitors, called the Potempkin Village, in Europe today, it is a business too, if you stay awhile you will get a chance to see the ugly people who don’t parade on mainstreets.
    And just go down to the financial centers in our big cities, you see the same well dress babes who work as secretaries and receptionists, providing eye candy in abundance.
    Now I have wondered if a fairly sizable percent of the population that immigrated over the past 3 centuries from Europe, may have been of the less beautiful sort, the ones who would have had less reason to stay in their “happy home” than to risk life and limb to “go west.. ” in steerage. You know: the Inclosure Act and stuff and Potato Famine etc.
    Or as the the (almost forgotten wordsmith) W.F. Buckley said once, in discounting the comparison to the U.S. “Scandinavia is the Westchester of Europe.”

  85. JBPravda October 25, 2011 at 1:26 pm #

    Amen———–Fat, stupid and ill-mannered is no way to go through life, unless you’re a much in need of dentistry American.

  86. azgog October 25, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    Recipe: Take one nation full of easy to get resources, marinate in exceptionalism. Mix in slavery (may substitute non-English speaking immigrants). Add an ocean of corn syrup and a sea of liquor, grill in front of TV for 60 years. Remove health care and jobs and set aside. Frost with Corporate puffery. Caution: this dish will be hot! Serves all of us right.

  87. noel bodie October 25, 2011 at 1:38 pm #

    i have met one child in past 10 years who was a pleasure to be around, most are weird, ill mannered and obnoxious.

  88. charliefoxtrot October 25, 2011 at 1:42 pm #

    GUFFAW!!!! #B D] well put…a thing of rare and consummate beauty…!

  89. Carmen Goodyear October 25, 2011 at 1:46 pm #

    I remember noting when I returned from Europe that American men all walked liked neanderthals. They hunched up their shoulders, swung their arms and swaggered in an ape-like way. When I was next in Europe I saw that the men there walked like human beings. Of course, I live in a rural area out west and here the cowboy, macho thing still rules.
    BTW, girls are pre-pubescent females and unless your ticket taker, hotel receptionist and 7 eleven clerk were under thirteen, I think the word you wanted was “Women”. The only place that adult males are called “boy” is in the racist parts of the South.
    I enjoy your blog very much and look to you for some truth in a world of spin. Especially enjoyed your talk with Richard Heinberg. Give us more!

  90. Anne October 25, 2011 at 1:48 pm #

    Dreamcycle, It may have escaped your notice that we are ostensibly the ones who choose our government, and instruct them as to what we want in terms of education and healthcare as well as military spending.
    Overall, Americans have exactly what we want. We do not value other people nor believe in the social contract. We’re a nation of individualists who think that if someone can’t pull themselves up by the bootstraps, well, fuck ’em. I seem to remember a recent example of a Republican comment along these lines and the crowd cheering its approbation. Universal healthcare was reviled as a “socialist” plan, as though there were something innately evil about socialism. Don’t you know that if God loved you, you’d be rich and you wouldn’t have to worry about your kids’ healthcare and education? So if you’re poor, it’s because you’re obviously a God damned lazy sinner.

  91. The Mook October 25, 2011 at 1:50 pm #

    Yep, you are right. Just told his nurse that “I don’t have to listen to you ni….r. His wife is PO’d but she will not correct him. Such is the life of a millionaire Republican. Don’t challenge him you might be in the will. Only problem is he will give it all to the Mason Lodge.

  92. SteveFtGreene October 25, 2011 at 2:11 pm #

    I’ve also had the same dream that Obama would decline to run for a second term a la Lyndon Johnson in 1968. At least that would give the Dems a chance, via candidates’ debates, a chance to fully differentiate themselves from the Repubs. Sigh…

  93. k-dog October 25, 2011 at 2:13 pm #

    I’ve never been to Sweden but I can relate to JHK.
    As a super-model myself I know it is hard to find fellow super-model here in America. Sadly when I am lucky enough to find a fellow supermodel all they want to do is talk about hair products clothes, it sucks.
    It’s good to know there is a world of purposeful adults taking care of themselves and their land. I hope they can do this hat trick sustainably and not at the expense of their North Sea and Libyan legacies because if that’s how it is done raiders from the north could sail again when those legacies run dry.
    Are they really supermodels or are they just skinny because things are tight? Their hairdressers know. If there are 7-Elevens in Gothenburg perhaps they have Supercuts for the super-models? Makes sense to me.
    I don’t think Sweden can’t escape the cost of oil wars forever. I think JHK should go in for a trim before he leaves to come home for some American Pork and ask some questions.

  94. jackieblue2u October 25, 2011 at 2:20 pm #

    Thanks for the Excellent Writiing.
    I loved it.
    I wonder WHY there is so much Narcissism ‘here’, as opposed to Sweden.
    Time for me to study this.
    I am German and Cherokee. So a mix.
    I love to hear stories of others’ experience
    around the world. My twin brother gets to go
    all over, he has $$. He tells me about his travels.
    Someday maybe I will, but if I do I’m NOT
    coming back here. West Coast that is. Been here
    all my life and it’s only getting more and more degraded and crowded with clowns and gangsters.
    Keep ’em coming. Enjoy Europe !

  95. RalphM October 25, 2011 at 2:32 pm #

    I lived in Sweden for 14 years, and experienced it (and much of the rest of Europe) as corporate employee, PhD student, small business owner, newlywed and new dad. Much of what you say rings true. Of course, it’s not nirvana – there are problems of too much conformity and too much collectivity – but the grown-ups are generally in control. And not the 1% grownups we have here, who have made America The Land Where Nothing More is Possible.

  96. Buck Stud October 25, 2011 at 2:32 pm #

    (Tongue placed firmly between cheek)…What a perverse twist or irony, lamenting “land whales” and nasty dispositions while simultaneously predicting something worse than the Great Depression. I mean do you want to be in fighting shape for the Great Apocalypse or a grizzly storing fat for the coming winter?
    In others words, Oakland or Gothenburg?

  97. Belisarius October 25, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

    “I believe Michael Moore touched on it when he noted, in the Columbine film, that Canadians had many more guns that we do but far fewer gun crimes.”
    MM is not noted for accuracy. Most weapons owned by Statesiders are illegal in Canada. We are not even allowed to drive to Alaska to hunt with even those few hunting weapons legal in Canada, without first obtaining a rare “permit to transport restricted weapons”. Good luck getting one!
    No one actually knows the numbers of weapons in either country. For example, several M&P sources have commented to me about the huge number of unregistered weapons that appeared on both civilian sides in the Watts riots. Many were full auto versions and NG would not enter some areas. That was news then, it is common now. Many gangs have their own firearms import and distribution networks.
    The increasing crime in Chicagoland is no surprise either. It remains the only major USA city without provision for an ordinary citizen to carry defensive firearms.

  98. Belisarius October 25, 2011 at 2:48 pm #

    “The increasing crime in Chicagoland is no surprise either. It remains the only major USA city without provision for an ordinary citizen to carry defensive firearms”.
    To correct myself. Illinois is the only STATE with no provision for an ordinary citizen to carry defensive firearms. When it comes to cities somehow DC and NYC slipped my mind.

  99. k-dog October 25, 2011 at 2:50 pm #

    Twisted irony indeed, a switcheroo.
    A fat bear would get through a Gothenburg winter better than a super-model in fighting shape who has nobody to fight anyway. Oakland however is different. It is relatively warm, I think it hardly ever snows there. Having the ability to fight for one’s dinner in Oakland will be far more important than one’s stored fat.
    Wrong people in the wrong place.

  100. Confusionism October 25, 2011 at 2:57 pm #

    “BTW, girls are pre-pubescent females and unless your ticket taker, hotel receptionist and 7 eleven clerk were under thirteen, I think the word you wanted was “Women”.”
    Amen, Carmen. You echo the sentiments of my wife, a consumate feminist. Somehow, in our society, it’s OK to refer to women as girls but the reciprical term for men is considered an insult. And the vast majority of women I talk to refer to other women with the same word – girl. I guess it’s better than chick or bitch but it doesn’t make it right.

  101. Wolfbay October 25, 2011 at 3:03 pm #

    You are right . Why resort to racism when you can just call him a fascist.He has ignored the constitution by assassinating American citizens without due processor or trial. He bombed Lybia without a declaration of war or even a resolution of congress and is sending troops to Africa.He did not close Guantonomo as he promised in the campaign.He bailed out GE capital and now has GE CEO Imelt in his cabinet.Before it’s over he will out Bush Bush.

  102. Liquid Lennny October 25, 2011 at 3:30 pm #

    “Now let’s remove 8 zeros and pretend it’s a household budget.
    • Annual family income: $21,700
    • Money the family spent: $38,200
    • New debt on the credit card: $16,500
    • Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
    • Total budget cuts: $385 ”
    What a great illustration! You have hit the nail right on its head. So simple even a fifth grader can get it. Too bad the best and the brightest in Washington don’t.
    So given the math I see a few steps to be taken.
    First, adjust to a different standard of living, not necessarily lower, but certainly different. All depends on your expectations.
    Second, may as well default unless you want to be a perpetural debt slave. Likelyhood of paying off the credit card is slim to none.
    Third, cut up all the credit cards, save some money and pay as you go.
    Finally, retake the portion of the 8th grade home economics class dealing with household budgets and try to pay attention this time.
    Is there a econ teacher out there who could consult Congress?

  103. dug77 October 25, 2011 at 3:38 pm #

    Hey Chris, are you dumber than a box of rocks? I don’t know, maybe my box of rocks is just really smart.
    “I wonder how polite and well-mannered these Swedes would be without the lavish social programs that allow them health, retirement, and vacation benefits that most Americans could only dream of.”
    As was mentioned earlier, Swedes pay a 50% income tax. Do you pay a 50% income tax Chris? Do you want to pay a 50% income tax Chris? Is it something you could “dream of”? If not then maybe you should shut the fuck up about what they have and what might happen if or when they lose it. The fact is you don’t, and you never will, have it. I suppose that puts you a little further down your ladder, doesn’t it? Sounds like you’re a sore loser Chris.
    As for the rest of your diatribe, I take it you favor American hegemony and all the respect that has been gained from U.S. foreign policy? I’m sorry, you called it “empire”, of course empires get respect. I’m a little fuzzy on the details of that empire respect though, can you clarify? I do know a little history and what I’ve learned about empires is they are all gone now.
    I’m also assuming your own boots have been on the ground in the Middle East, yes? You weren’t just talking about the sacrifice of other Americans while talking about the lack of sacrifice by Swedes, were you?
    And if Europe is cashing in on “American firepower” then is it safe to say that they are smarter than you are Chris? I think so. Your tax dollars went where exactly? Oh yeah, “American firepower”. I’m not sure I’m seeing the benefits of that American firepower, so maybe you could give us the details.
    I think you could learn something from the Swedes Chris, like maybe how to be polite and well-mannered. You did make one good point though, America will be the first one there.

  104. The Mook October 25, 2011 at 3:48 pm #

    But which is really worse, racism or political correctness? Seems to me things are going downhill a lot quicker now that those who need to speak their minds can’t call a diamond a diamond.

  105. JPB October 25, 2011 at 3:48 pm #

    “I do get the feeling, however, that if by some caprice of fate they [Europe] end up fighting with America again, the next time they will kick our bloated, tattooed asses.”
    Come on. You cannot be serious about that. The entire military “might” of Europe would have trouble handling Canada, let alone the U.S.

  106. Wolfbay October 25, 2011 at 4:07 pm #

    The majority of Swedes speak English and speak it well. They are taught the language starting in elementary school.

  107. Grouchy Old Girl October 25, 2011 at 4:10 pm #

    Now that I’m over the shock of no JHK on Monday morning, it’s a relief to know his malaise is just jet lag and not something serious, like gout in his big toe. It does sound like he found time to wander around a bit and absorb the flavour of the place, and that has to be the best aspect of travel for anyone with their eyes open. Note that I don’t mean the tourists looking around to find a Macdonald’s to eat good old Amerikan food-like substances.
    Been distracted today by our neighbouring town’s water crisis with less than half capacity pumping the stuff to residents. The Mayor has declared if she catches anyone using more than she thinks they should they will have their water cut right off entirely. Way to reassure the public, Mayor. It’s interesting to see that some are panicking and this is just a taste of the future.
    But back to this blog, where somebody has claimed us gentle and sweet Canadians have more guns than you guys do. I just knew that wasn’t right, and looked it up. Get ready now, Canada is #13 on the list, with a still too high 30.8 guns per 100 people. America, of course, is #1 with 88.8 guns per 100. Sweden, incidentally, is a surprising #10 with 31.6 guns per 100. Another surprise was that Mexico and Australia are tied at #42 with only 15.0 guns per 100 people. This is all from something called the Small Arms Survey of 2007 as reported in Wikipedia.
    Good post today, and predictable that the envious among us want to put Sweden and other socialist European countries down for enjoying the services that Americans seem unable to collectively provide for themselves. Makes no sense, but then neither does boasting about American military superiority when it’s one of the factors bankrupting you and preventing you from providing services to your people.
    But then, I’m a socialist and pacifist, what else would I think?

  108. Grouchy Old Girl October 25, 2011 at 4:16 pm #

    DUG77, I think I’m in love. What analysis, what dryness of humour, what skill in skewering the irrational mind-set of the wrong-headed.
    Exceptionally well done, Sir/Madam. I shall look forward eagerly to more.

  109. sfnate October 25, 2011 at 4:22 pm #

    Well, Chris, I guess the Swedes made some decisions about what they value most, which apparently has something to do with quality of life and good health.
    We Americans on the other hand (the ordinary folk, that is) have decided that we prefer a gun slinging wild west fantasy of every man for himself. Well, not everyone, but apparently enough of us have decided that perpetual war and conflict–in all its forms, everywhere–is a good way to spend our time, money, and–alas–dwindling material resources.
    The Swedes took a different path. You assert that they have benefited from our war machine, and quite possibly that could be true, to some extent, but I guess it’s just idle speculation to wonder how much more they (and we!) would have benefited if we had decided to invest our considerable talents in more (let’s say) peaceful endeavours, only (and reluctantly, with regret) using lethal force when no possible alternative remained.
    But we all know how lucrative the military-industrial complex has become for a staggeringly small percentage of Americans. (Why didn’t we listen to Eisenhower? A missed opportunity, for sure.) While the rest of us chant U-S-A! from the collapsing porch on our foreclosed homes, the finely manicured hands of the military industrialists are helping themselves to your 401K, your pensions, your local town budgets, and on and on.
    But I guess it’s worth it to have large tanks and fast planes? To defend our abject civil and material poverty from those who would seek to take it from us, right?
    Actually, we’re probably pretty close to the day when someone else’s army will be greeted as liberators, but’s that’s an argument for another day.

  110. Chris Balow October 25, 2011 at 4:33 pm #

    While I won’t get into the topic of manners and politeness with a person who called me “dumber than a box of rocks,” a “sore loser,” and tells me to “shut the fuck up,” there are a few of your other points that I’d like to address.
    My comments were not an endorsement of America’s empire, nor a suggestion that it will last forever–its days are numbered and I, personally, don’t bemoan that fact. Nevertheless, it is what it is, and it is this empire that allows the 5% of the world’s population who are American to use a third of the planet’s energy production. Any country doing business with America is taking deriving direct benefit from that arrangement–simple as that. And that arrangement, mind you, has come at the direct impoverishment of the Third World. Just because Swedish social policy does a better job of distributing that stolen wealth than does American social policy does not change this fact, either.
    That the average Swede can afford to pay a 50% income tax simply tells me that the average Swede has done better in the global economy of recent decades than the average American. Comparative statistics of the distribution of wealth between the U.S. and Sweden attests to this.
    Now, does that fact that Sweden sells luxury consumer items to the American upper classes–and makes bank in the process–make them “smarter?” Could be. But my point was this: such intelligence does not give them integrity. Whether you’re sending troops to Afghanistan or doing your damndest to tap into the lucrative U.S. defense market (as Saab has done in recent years), you are participating in that empire. If Sweden, or any country, has a real problem with American foreign policy, I would suggest they halt all trade with America or, as you say, “shut the fuck up.”

  111. Confusionism October 25, 2011 at 4:38 pm #

    Just to continue on the thread of American Empire that Mr. Chris Balow so foolishly defended, I just read an article about how over the course of several years during the Iraq war we flew $40B in cash to Iraq for rebuilding efforts, and wouldn’t you know it, several billion dollars (who knows how much exactly) went missing, vanished into the dry, dusty thin air of Baghdad.
    Who the fuck was in charge of this boondoggle? I mean they literally flew pallets of cash and basically just dropped it off. WTF? If ever there was a story to piss off the 99 percenters, here is one. Personally, I think half of it made its way back to Cheney and company. I doubt the Swedes saw any of it.

  112. sfnate October 25, 2011 at 4:41 pm #

    Come on. You cannot be serious about that. The entire military “might” of Europe would have trouble handling Canada, let alone the U.S.
    I seem to recall some serious setbacks in Iraq, where the shock and awe of our military machine was effectively neutralized by a handful (relatively speaking) of motivated irregulars.
    And Afghanistan, don’t get me started.
    The best way to pacify the enemy is to drop bags of cash everywhere, and watch them all pocket the Benjamins and make off for the nearest open air market to buy enough food to keep their family alive. A wide-screen TV might keep them occupied, too.
    Unfortunately, with bags of cash in short supply these days (they’re all hidden away in the Upper East Side, apparently), overcoming our fiercest most determined enemies will be difficult, as we saw in Iraq, and are seeing in Afghanistan.
    So having said that, I think Europe might have some real success against us, if it came to that.

  113. Vlad Krandz October 25, 2011 at 4:54 pm #

    Appearances can be deceptive and they most definitely are in this case. The Swedes are even replacing themselves genetically. They could hardly afford to in any case even if they wanted to – which they don’t. All population growth comes from the Muslim immigrants who will rule Sweden in another two generations at most. Already blondes are a vanishing minority.
    Politically, Swedes have accepted their slavery with silent resignation. They can go to jail for speaking against Muslims, Homos, or Jews. So much for free speech. They HAVE to be polite – that is the place of slaves. Jews like their Whites quiet and peaceful. Well the joke is on them. They’ve guilt tripped Whites into slavery and actually brought in the people who will replace them. But these people don’t like them to put it mildly. No Jews will be able to live in Europe in another decade or two.

  114. sfnate October 25, 2011 at 4:59 pm #

    such intelligence does not give them integrity.
    Everyone’s hands are dirty, to be sure. There’s a dark side to every culture. The Swedes have one, too. (Remember, they were Vikings, once upon a time. That bunch could really do some serious damage. Perhaps their relatively placid demeanor today is some kind of overcompensation for that violent past–I’m no psychologist, though.)
    I think what’s coming through in this criticism is a suggestion that we can in fact improve our living conditions and quality of life through choices that are deliberate and support our core values. Americans have traditionally lived by several myths that tend to celebrate individualism and embrace violence as a means of solving disputes. This is changing as the demographics shift, but the overall atmosphere in this country is dominated by forces that live according to those myths, either cynically or naively. So we have made our choices, often deliberate, that support core values of aggressive enterprise in the service of unfettered individualism.
    For better or worse, that’s our reality.
    A different reality exists in Sweden, it seems.

  115. Chris Balow October 25, 2011 at 5:06 pm #

    Again, I’m not begrudging Swedish social policy–if the people of Sweden find that it suits them, they are welcome to it. What I take exception to is this habit of comparing American social policy to that of nations with completely different demographic, cultural, and economic conditions.
    The problem with this line of thinking is that it does not lead to solutions. A 50% income tax would be an insanely misguided experiment in America, so what is the point of debating the merits of Sweden’s use of it? If the concept of “apple and oranges” somehow made it into the mostly-empty space behind Herman Cain’s vacant stare, surely we can wrap our own heads around it?
    As I stated before, Swedish social policy has evolved within the context of a globalized economy kept stable by both expanding energy production and American military strength–both of which are now contracting. Whether or not current Swedish social policy will be workable outside that context is, to me, a very open question.
    I wish I could ask JHK: how many amongst the people of Gothenberg did he notice maintaining their own organic gardens?

  116. Widespreadpanic7 October 25, 2011 at 5:13 pm #

    Testing. Testing.
    Just because I’ve been kicked off here so much.

  117. Widespreadpanic7 October 25, 2011 at 5:16 pm #

    OK then.
    Just wondering, any of you CFNers attending Obama’s $50,000 per plate fundraising extravaganza in Hollywood this week? There are two in case you miss the first one. I understand all the stars will be there.

  118. trippticket October 25, 2011 at 5:17 pm #

    This post, and many of the preceding comments, remind me of an important distinction I picked up from Derrick Jensen a couple of years ago. Derrick reminds us not to identify with the bad habits and bad behaviors of groups to which we supposedly “belong”. Just because “Americans” are land whales, doesn’t mean that Ozone is a formerly-bipedal Hoveround McNugget. Quite the contrary, Ozone is a reasonably fit, erudite, talented musician, skilled in the garden, and one heck-of-a good looking fellow, who, despite the stereotypes obscuring his personal character in the minds of those snobby Swedes (on account of his being a dumb, fat ‘Murkan and all), still empathizes with and emulates the more responsible set of industrial humans walking about the earth today. In fact, Ozone thinks like he does while generally being surrounded by the biggest group of idiots ever to disgrace Earth’s biosphere, not while being enveloped by the warm and fuzzy glow of ubiquitous Nordic eco-piety, so who is the more admirable person really? Sven of Gentleman’s Photovoltaic Quarterly? Or Ozone Pete, the gentleman bard of Massachusetts?
    I was born in America, but that doesn’t mean I have to keep acting like a bonehead forever.

  119. Widespreadpanic7 October 25, 2011 at 5:18 pm #

    Call me crazy, but I doubt if any OWSER types will be showing up to protest this particular set of millionaires and billionaires. I might be wrong.

  120. Widespreadpanic7 October 25, 2011 at 5:21 pm #

    I can personally attest to the greatness of OzonePete, one helluva guy, great talent, friendly, a good sense of humor.

  121. Chris Balow October 25, 2011 at 5:23 pm #

    sfnate, I am of almost 100% Scandinavian stock, and grew up in a small Midwestern town that was itself of almost 100% Scandinavian stock. It always amazed me, considering the violent history of the Vikings, how the people I grew up around went to such extreme lengths to avoid any type of direct conflict or controversy amongst each other (the legendary passive-aggressiveness of Minnesotans is no myth, I’m afraid). Noboby ever wants to “rock the boat.”
    Norse culture, after being so completely devoted to violence in the Viking Age, seems to have swung to the other extreme. Maybe that, on an international scale, is the source of the passive-aggressive participation in American military adventure by the likes of Sweden (quietly denouncing the War in Iraq while selling America some of the military equipment that helped make it possible). It seems that Sweden doesn’t want to rock the boat.

  122. balkan October 25, 2011 at 5:30 pm #

    I would not go as far as Jim in almost black and white comparasion, however there is a definitely a noticable shabbiness lately about USA after returning from anywhere – waaay different than when I landed in here quater of a century ago…
    Joe Bageant reflected a similar feelings in one of his essys.
    One can notice that even before landing by coming back from Europe to NY by, say, Lufthansa and then, Lufthansa again but operted by American Airlines to get to LAX. Wooow!

  123. bproman October 25, 2011 at 5:50 pm #

    It’s not an empty bowl of soup, it’s art.

  124. anti soak October 25, 2011 at 5:52 pm #

    MM is not noted for accuracy…Now thats a notable quote!
    What about a breakdown of these [almost all] Male stats?
    Citizen / immigrant
    white / non

  125. anti soak October 25, 2011 at 5:54 pm #

    ‘Of course, it’s not nirvana’
    well of course not..its Eurabia and sinking fast…the mooslem parasites get the welfare dollars.

  126. anti soak October 25, 2011 at 5:56 pm #

    The Swedes are even replacing themselves genetically
    you mean NOT replacing….they should have kept abortion illegal and given more econ. incentives for citizens to breed,,while not allowing immigrants..hindsites 20/20..eh Vlad?

  127. progress2conserve October 25, 2011 at 6:01 pm #

    “Evidently you haven’t visited southern Sweden and Malmo.It’s on it’s way to becoming a Muslim immigrant majority city with a huge “ghetto”. There is a high crime rate and one police station has been attacked so many times…”
    -wolf bay-
    I’ve never been, Wolf. Chances are I never will.
    I was just grooving on JHK’s description of “touristy” or “upscale” Sweden – and working out an emigration from the US fantasy early this morning.
    I can understand how the US with our Civil War and history of slavery could be having troubles with race, and now religion.
    I can understand how the French or the Brits – with their colonial histories and baggage – could be having troubles with race and religion.
    But WTF – repeat, WHAT THE F*CK – possessed the Swedes to allow Muslim immigrants into their country????????
    Was it basic laziness?
    Like the Swiss, who wanted domestic help more than they wanted to raise a generation of Swiss teenagers (and PAY them) to actually do actual work?

  128. sfnate October 25, 2011 at 6:14 pm #

    Yes, yes, demographics: homogeneous, stable societies have a significant advantage over other groups that are internally conflicted and in a constant state of friction and raucous debate. The diversity of opinion that enlivens our public discourse (to the extent that it even occurs anymore) is a great strength in that it improves our cultural DNA and helps us to avoid the kind of social inbreeding that enervates and addles some communities. But it can also create a challenging dynamic when the human desire to identify strongly with a particular narrative takes precedence over, and even works to undermine, shared communal values.
    In Sweden, because it is a much smaller place, the sense of community and shared experience is correspondingly easier to maintain. Our geography of vast and empty places tends to exaggerate and enhance the the myth of individuals toiling to survive in rugged isolation. Maybe that’s more of a western myth, but I think that the country has always embraced the idea, even if they were living in a tenement in New York City.
    I think that most people understand that in order to maintain an excellent and enriching quality of life, we must invest in projects that are not always profitable, or can’t be, if only because their real value has nothing to do with enriching the coffers of private businessmen. When we experience nostalgia to the point of sadness looking over the faded postcards in our grandparents’ closet, what we mourn is the loss of places and events that were corrupted and destroyed by those who sought to profit from their exploitation. We can argue forever over where the real blame lies, but in the end it’s going to be revealed that a cancer of cheapness and superficiality has diminished our lives, and that when we began refusing to pay the real price for these precious things, we were given false substitutes by cynics and cheats who try, to this day, to keep the real things for themselves.
    But this is a perverse connoisseurship that will ultimately destroy everything of value, that is real and true.
    So maybe in the end, 50% is really too little to pay, if you want to keep what precious little you have, that is precious.

  129. progress2conserve October 25, 2011 at 6:37 pm #

    “In the context of JHK’s comparison piece, I sometimes wonder if ‘Murkin loutishness isn’t a genetic propensity!”
    Ozone, you may be asking this as a joke – or maybe not. ?
    But I suspect that there certainly is a genetic component to the “‘Merican” set of behaviors.
    Think about it.
    Anyone who emigrates to the US is leaving kith and ken for a vast unknown. This means that The VAST UNKNOWN – looks better to many of these immigrants – than would staying with kith and ken and trying to make things better where they were born in the first place.
    So, here we are, all of us. Outcasts, renegades, malcontents, or the descendants of outcasts, renegades, and malcontents – and we’re in the US.
    And we’re in a cosmic scaled experiment in genetic self-selection, occurring in real time.
    And the rest of the world wonders why we’re a little bit fractious???
    Somebody is going to have to elaborate on this idea. Or I will have to do it.

  130. progress2conserve October 25, 2011 at 6:40 pm #

    Freak on a leash.
    – kin kin kin kin kin kin kin kin kin kin kin –

  131. fairguy October 25, 2011 at 7:19 pm #

    And I can only share the sentiments.
    In Stockholm last December for a business meeting, I was struck by how walkable and lovely the downtown area was, even in subzero (-15c) temps and piles of snow.
    Families with young children were walking around town in the early evening hours, admiring the department store Christmas murals and each other’s company.
    At a holiday dinner, the food served was light, excellent and healthy – a contrast from the heavy and sweet junk served here.
    The only thing I couldn’t quite figure out were the super-modern bathroom and shower fixtures.
    Unfortunately the unraveling of the Euro economy – if and when it happens – will affect my noble Swedish colleagues as well as everyone else.

  132. dug77 October 25, 2011 at 8:22 pm #

    So your argument is that Sweden is taking, and then, more importantly, redistributing, ill gotten wealth through taxes more wisely than the U.S.? (I know, I know, your point is they’re making some unholy percentage from exports to the U.S. Of course that is a load of shit, please do your homework). Sounds like a good start to me. And it still makes them smarter and more civil. Thank you for making my point.
    I believe a lack of civility, honesty and empathy has metastasized and possibly mortally infected the body politic in the U.S., which is why your Swedish dream will never come true. (you were dreaming of life in Sweden right? I didn’t really understand that exactly) New argument, or back to your box?

  133. dug77 October 25, 2011 at 8:32 pm #

    LOL, I’m just a rope dealer Grouchy… 🙂

  134. progress2conserve October 25, 2011 at 8:44 pm #

    Due respect, boys, but you and Dug77 are both showing a lack of – insight and analysis.
    Both of you are up in arms because the Swedes pay FIFTY PERCENT!!!! in total taxes.
    Neither of you – have defined – 50% of HOW MUCH.
    This is important – most important.
    50% of $10,000 US- takes you down into the realm of grinding poverty – at $5 thousand/year.
    50% of $10 million US – leaves $5 million, OTOH.
    ANYONE who can’t live on 5 million is an idiot.
    And a lot of mid-income US citizens ALREADY PAY 50% – when federal, state, local, sales, & property taxes are added into the mix.
    I know I do.

  135. trippticket October 25, 2011 at 8:51 pm #

    Speaking of monocultures, this is what happens when white people hang out exclusively for too long:
    (Although I have to admit, this guy can yodel like no other!)
    Actually, here’s a young (and adorable) American girl who is pretty darn good too:

  136. trippticket October 25, 2011 at 9:01 pm #

    “50% of $10,000 US- takes you down into the realm of grinding poverty – at $5 thousand/year.”
    Five thousand is still waaay more than the average Earthling makes in any given year. It’s only an anomalous blip on the energy radar screen that defines such extravagance as “poverty.”
    Of course, most of what defines poverty in the States is the overbearing kleptocracy extracting the life blood from the people. Isn’t this a cornerstone of the OWS protest? If it’s not it should be.
    Either way, I suppose energy descent will sort it all out in time.

  137. mika. October 25, 2011 at 9:02 pm #

    Good point.
    The Vatican controlled US and European Central Banks and US/NATO military, are two important foundation pillars in the New/Old Roman Reich, i.e., the New/Old World Order. It is the thieving imperialism that is the Fascist Reich that really is the overriding element that defines American and European culture and the psyche of individuals within the Reich. James is just as infected by the mendacious hypocrisy and willful blindness imposed by the propaganda organs of the Fascist Reich, as are most Americans and most Europeans.
    The Vatican Calls for ‘Central World Bank’ to Be Set Up – CNBC

  138. progress2conserve October 25, 2011 at 9:08 pm #

    Tripp – you know I don’t totally disagree, with anything you just said.
    But when you get to this part – “Either way, I suppose energy descent will sort it all out in time.” -TT-
    Yeah, no doubt it will sort out “in time.”
    Meanwhile, dude, what if “in time” is now – and goes forward for the next year, decade, or century.
    If I’ve got to live through Gotterdammerung – I’m damn well going to raise Hell and try to ease the pain on my own kith and kin.

  139. edpell October 25, 2011 at 9:13 pm #

    Sweden is already at 50% renewable energy. The best on the planet? I think they will do fine in TLE

  140. edpell October 25, 2011 at 9:20 pm #

    America a nation where the government hates the people and does whatever make the global corporations rich even when it kills the citizens.

  141. lsjogren October 25, 2011 at 9:21 pm #

    If Sweden is 50% renewable it is because of unique geographic circumstances. (Lots of hydropower, and hydropower is one of the few conventional sources that meshes reasonably well with intermittent renewable sources such as wind, which I understand Sweden gets quite a bit of from Denmark.
    An old adage is appropriate here:
    Don’t try this at home.
    (Whoops, that’s precisely what we’re doing, with relatively unfortunate results.)

  142. asoka. October 25, 2011 at 9:36 pm #

    “But WTF – repeat, WHAT THE F*CK – possessed the Swedes to allow Muslim immigrants into their country????????”
    A despicable and offensive comment. It would be like me saying: “WHAT THE F*CK – possessed the USA to allow in violence-prone Irish and Scottish immigrants?
    I have Muslim friends. The Muslims I know are wonderful people, deeply spiritual, and genuinely helpful when others are in need.
    Your Muslim-bashing, Procon, is disgusting.
    I needed to register my displeasure at your racist remarks.

  143. myrtlemay October 25, 2011 at 9:37 pm #

    Okay, I’ll bite, for what it’s worth (.02). This question has actually been in my head all day now, so you bringing it up has forced me to share what I know/think.
    Firstly, Americans are here, as noted, because they were either kicked out, forced out, beaten, starved, or enslaved (choice vs. no choice – makes a difference)from their native lands. We therefore, once here, don’t request, but DEMAND that once we’ve figured out how to survive (eat, have shelter, procreate) after escaping the native country _____…(you fill in the blank), we are or feel “entitled”.
    In this modern age, we are bombarded on all media fronts with the elite “lifestyles of the rich and famous”, and feel that we were somehow cheated, this being the land of plenty and all. So hey, a bucket of KFC here, a twelve pack of Michelob there, and a side or two of fries and hashbrowns, 4-5 days a week, 52 weeks per year, and yeah, we’re getting real fat. Add to that cities, particularly in the South, were public transit is limited or non-existent for the vast majority of most, especially the suburbs and exurbs.
    This ain’t Sweden. For the ones still trying to get into this country, it’s on the lighter side of Heaven. For those of us on the inside, seeing our country veer off a massive cliff, and finally coming to terms with PO and the massive Depression soon to hit, it’s a living Hell.

  144. myrtlemay October 25, 2011 at 9:40 pm #

    Jesus, he’s back. Shoulda had the abortion when the doctor recommended it back in the day. 🙁

  145. Chris Balow October 25, 2011 at 9:40 pm #

    I harbor no dream of life in Sweden (though JHK does, apparently), and if you’d take the time to read my comments more carefully, you might find yourself a bit less confused.
    My argument has nothing to do with what percentage of the global economy Sweden manages to funnel into its own national tax system. My argument, again, is that Sweden’s social programs exist within the framework of a global economy fueled by cheap energy and relative international stability–a framework which is rapidly coming apart at the seams. I argue that, across the industrialized First World, standards of living will be collapsing in the coming decades, and that Sweden will be no exception to this rule. We have no idea how smart or civil the Swedes will be in the unfolding of the Long Emergency.
    What motivates my original comments is my lack of patience with the sort of fashionable hatred toward “Americans” (which is functioning here as a catch-all term for the worst qualities we see in our neighbors) that you, and JHK’s original post, demonstrates. It’s pointless intellectual masturbation that people like you use to pat yourselves on the back for recognizing just how evil and misguided your neighbors are, and just how much in common you think you have with those blond-headed super models across the pond.
    I often wonder if this is a reflection of New England’s Puritanical past, which goads us to search out and destroy the evil that lives amongst us. Whatever the cause, the liberal habit of tarring American culture and American people as the worst of the worst is no more constructive than the conservative habit of insisting that America represents the best of the best. Both ends of this extreme exist to serve the emotional biases of those who promulgate them, and neither one contributes to a discussion of real-world responses to the series of crises unfolding before us.

  146. progress2conserve October 25, 2011 at 9:45 pm #

    “A despicable and offensive comment. It would be like me saying: “WHAT THE F*CK – possessed the USA to allow in violence-prone Irish and Scottish immigrants?”
    You dodge the question. The US couldn’t help allowing the violence prone Irish and Scotts. They’d already killed all the Indians and needed someone to prepare the nuclear bombs to drop on the Japanese to end WWII.
    But why have the Swedes, Swiss, and Germans allowed this immigration into their countries.
    I think they are lazy.
    I think Western culture is doomed.
    That is your goal, right asoka.

  147. edpell October 25, 2011 at 9:48 pm #

    US tax 28% fed + 8% state + 6% payroll + 3%(?) medicare medicaid + 6%(?) social security = 51%
    this does not include county tax, school tax, fire district tax.

  148. asoka. October 25, 2011 at 9:51 pm #

    “I think Western culture is doomed. That is your goal, right asoka.”
    Not my goal.
    But I’m not going to cry crocodile tears over a “culture” that chained Black folk to the bottom of a boat and brought them here (the ones who survived) to, you know, to create such a great “Western culture”

  149. myrtlemay October 25, 2011 at 9:58 pm #

    My memory might be fading, but I thought ya’ll weren’t going to directly address each other (one of you, anyway). No matter. I think Chris Harven has it pretty much right. I’ll try to fathom his argument, one by one.
    1) Peak oil is in the bed beside all of us. She’s a bitch who’ll only get worse with age (spoken by one who knows!)
    2) Merikans ain’t all bad people. We’re lots of different colors, shapes, sizes, what have you. We’ve made some pretty fudged up decisions on how to handle our wealth. We (and the world) are going to suffer dearly for it. If you’ve been paying attention (“A” hasn’t been), it’s already started.
    3) Diversity and even immigration is fine and all (when needed), but hey, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! Going back to the “fat Merikan” theory, ice cream is a great thing…as long as you don’t over do it…breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snack!
    4) Puritan Past- Yep, that’s why the originals came here, for better and for worse. If nothing else, America has proven itself a place were an idea with even a small opportunity can blossom into a most beautiful flower, enhancing the existence of everyone. As with anything else, too much of a good thing can lead to, among other things, greed and exhaustion of resources. Welcome to the 21st century, CFN’ers!

  150. progress2conserve October 25, 2011 at 10:02 pm #

    “But I’m not going to cry crocodile tears over a “culture” that chained Black folk to the bottom of a boat…”
    Your points are noted.
    You also want Shiria law for US citizens in the US.
    You want 600 million+ souls on the US landmass.
    You want La Reconquista – so Mexico can seize California, AZ, NM, etc.
    I am opposed – these ideas are death for human life on Earth.
    I have no idea why you still try to engage me, here on CFN.
    And, by the way –
    Those were slave SHIPS – not boats.

  151. myrtlemay October 25, 2011 at 10:02 pm #

    But how many of them would wish to return?

  152. dug77 October 25, 2011 at 10:07 pm #

    Oops Progress, you missed the point. But that’s not unnatural, and I understand it. And nope, I’m not up in arms about anything. I just crunch numbers, and deal with that reality. I don’t take it personally, really. As I advised Chris, it might be good to do the math before making hay.
    It’s enough to say the income inequality in the U.S. is not comparable to Sweden (or any European country, outside the U.K.). Essentially, if you make the comparison, you’re comparing apples to prunes. And prunes make you shit, catch the drift? And the U.S. is drowning in shit at the moment. Numbers don’t lie.
    I’m not a theologian, nor a particularly religious person, but I’m intuitively sure that if you live in the first world you’re probably not in the will – Matthew 5:5

  153. progress2conserve October 25, 2011 at 10:07 pm #

    “My memory might be fading, but I thought ya’ll weren’t going to directly address each other (one of you, anyway).”
    My bad, Myrtle. That was me.
    I think losing Cash, Q, Wage, Hancock – and numerous other thought provoking posters.
    And being left with a poster who is just provoking, without thought.
    And having JHK miss his Monday post –
    – Has deranged me.
    I hope it’s temporary, girlfrien’ Myrtle.
    I’ll try not to do it again.

  154. myrtlemay October 25, 2011 at 10:08 pm #

    Correctin to above: Chris Balow was the person to whom I had referred. No idea who the other Chris Harven was, perhaps a boyfriend from high school. Keep your minds active, CFN’ers! Getting old isn’t pretty…ask hubby ;D

  155. asoka. October 25, 2011 at 10:11 pm #

    “I have no idea why you still try to engage me, here on CFN.”
    I have to wonder about that myself. 🙂
    Sharia law is for Muslims. I would not favor imposing it on non-Muslims, just as I don’t favor imposing Baptist values on the population at large.
    600 million is a sustainable population, given the current population density of the USA. I did not say I want 600 million, I’m simply taking away your hyperbolic argument that 600 million people would be “death for human life on Earth” though that did make me laugh out loud.
    What I want is a voluntary, just, sane, global population reduction.
    I will not engage in immigrant bashing.
    Which side of a border you live on does not affect global population one way or another. Worrying about border security is a waste of time and money. Immigration cannot be stopped, as attested to by 20 million immigrants.
    La Reconquista is just justice delayed. Karma.
    Don’t waste any crocodile tears on that either.

  156. Boris October 25, 2011 at 10:11 pm #

    Thanks for the great commentary James. Its very informative, entertaining, and consistent.

  157. BeantownBill October 25, 2011 at 10:17 pm #

    I think most of the lost posters you mentioned will eventually find their way back here. CFN is a drug, and eventually CFN addicts are Jonesing for their fix. Only the very strong can resist.

  158. progress2conserve October 25, 2011 at 10:24 pm #

    “I’m not a theologian, nor a particularly religious person, but I’m intuitively sure that if you live in the first world you’re probably not in the will – Matthew 5:5, courtesy of dug77-
    Very good point, dug – and probably correct. Tripp, who is not a “sky-god” believer – just made the same point from a different direction.
    He’s probably correct, too.
    This is ironic. We Americans (US citizens?) tend to behave as though GOD is with us, and is opposed to birth control, sex ed, and abortion.
    We’ve exported these ideas all around the Globe.
    And these ideas are going to, most likely, end human life on earth.
    Meanwhile, our guilt in the US about slavery, race, or some undefinable something, makes us accept 1,000,000 LEGAL immigrants per year – with their high birthrates.
    Which will, most likely, lead to the end of human life on earth.
    Catch 22?
    Imagine what Vonnegut could have done with this!

  159. Boris October 25, 2011 at 10:30 pm #

    How about we get a global consensus to conserve all the earths remaining fossil fuels. Lets try to make all the fuel last as long as possible. Lets all try our best to use less. This sounds altruistic, sorry Ayn Rand. Lets leave the future generations some of this goop. Lets stop and think about it. What gives us the right to squander such an immense inheritance of oil? Weve got another five years maybe of steady, cheap, easy oil, if that. I see so many people driving around without a care, gleefully of the cliff of peak oil. I want to tell them all to rearrange your life now, drive less. Do you want to be one of those people waiting in line to get gas in a rage? Get used to riding a bike or a motor scooter that gets 80mpg. Were gonna become like China has been with bikes and scooters all over.

  160. progress2conserve October 25, 2011 at 10:39 pm #

    “…600 million people would be “death for human life on Earth” though that did make me laugh out loud.”
    Asoka. –
    in light of peak oil
    considering peak everything
    knowing that there were less than 20 million Native Americans when Columbus arrived – because that was ALL the souls that the US landmass could support – without OIL, greed, cow’s milk, and rape of the land.
    And you don’t think 600 million in the US is a bad idea?
    And it makes you “laugh out loud”????????
    You argue for death.
    But you argue for death –
    from the most beautiful and giving perspective.
    You should have had a child or two.
    Because death is not a thing to be welcomed.
    For a young person.
    Every potential immigrant should stay home.
    And work for a better future where they live, now.
    Growth of the US – is an accelerated death for Planet Earth.
    Do the math on consumption of planetary resources and CO2, and you will understand.
    Sorry myrtle 🙁
    It’s a bad week.
    I’ll come to my senses when Q comes back.
    How about that?

  161. Buck Stud October 25, 2011 at 10:41 pm #

    ” Who’s your daddy, Bjorn? ” –Sonny Barger

  162. asoka. October 25, 2011 at 10:52 pm #

    “Do the math on consumption of planetary resources and CO2, and you will understand.”
    You do the math, ProCon. Economic prosperity has been rising faster than direct resource consumption.
    Between 1980 and 2002, the resources required to produce $1,000 worth of consumer goods fell from 2.1 metric tons to just 1.6 metric tons and global per capita income has increased seven-fold. Do you understand?

  163. anti soak October 25, 2011 at 10:59 pm #

    If yr referring to ass-oka yes hes back…
    Mr Unicorn his self!
    Here soka smoke this!
    This is the second time in two weeks that a major hotel has cancelled a conference dealing with sharia law and radical Islam
    Nashville Hotel Owner Caves To Sharia Law – Cancels Preserving Freedom Conference
    Oct 24th, 2011 | By wjmurray | Category: News Posts
    Print Friendly Print Get a PDF version of this webpage PDF
    AmerimarOctober 24, 2011 – The Hutton Hotel in Nashville has announced it is cancelling the Preserving Freedom Conference sponsored by the Sharia Awareness Action Network (SAAN).
    A senior vice president of the parent company, Steve Eckley said that his hotel has been getting threatening phone calls and letters and will not honor the contract they signed with the SAAN. Eckley told us that he wouldn’t let us on the premises if we showed up.
    This is the second time in two weeks that a major hotel has cancelled a conference dealing with sharia law and radical Islam. The other hotel was the Hyatt Place in Sugarland, TexaS………….

  164. anti soak October 25, 2011 at 11:01 pm #

    Other than Military and servicing the debt what do we get for all the taxes?

  165. progress2conserve October 25, 2011 at 11:25 pm #

    “You do the math, ProCon. Economic prosperity has been rising faster than direct resource consumption.
    Between 1980 and 2002, the resources required to produce $1,000 worth of consumer goods fell from 2.1 metric tons to just 1.6 metric tons and global per capita income has increased seven-fold. Do you understand?” -asoka-
    I understand completely.
    “consumer goods,” produced per TON of finite Earth resources, though? That’s your best shot?
    Really, asoka.???
    2.1 vs 1.6 is a very small change – and fossil resources come closer to exhaustion, inexorably.
    4.5 billion to 7 billion is a very large change – and population still increases, inexorably.
    You, sadly, can’t seem to do math, asoka.
    You don’t care to understand physics.
    More prosperity in the US.
    More people in the US –
    Bring human life on planet Earth closer to extinction.
    Again, why do you try to engage me on CFN?
    Is it just for the love of argument?
    I don’t enjoy it.
    No one else on CFN seems to enjoy it.
    Let it go.
    Just stay over there and work for La Reconquista, Sharia, a huge US population, and death.
    I will do the opposite.

  166. progress2conserve October 25, 2011 at 11:36 pm #

    Despite all this noise, we leave unanswered the original question:
    “Why have the Swedes allowed enough Muslims into their country to cause possible destabilization of their society?”
    Who pushed it? Why?
    Who benefited? How?
    What will happen to the Swedes in 50 years?
    Why is asking simple questions considered, by some, to be RACIST?
    Why are questions about religion RACIST, anyway?

  167. asoka. October 25, 2011 at 11:54 pm #

    So many questions you ask that I could answer, but I am taking your advice. I am letting it go.
    My only reason for replying in the first place was your ignorant and provocative question implying that Islam is “destabilizing.” I had to register my opposition.
    It is apparent you are unaware of the nature of Islam as a religion of peace and the tremendous benefit Islam has provided to the world.

  168. charliefoxtrot October 25, 2011 at 11:57 pm #

    What?! reconquista? is that something like 40 acres and a burro?

  169. charliefoxtrot October 26, 2011 at 12:13 am #

    such as? what good does it do for you that women are beaten in the street if their HANDS are showing?! or shot in the head for being accused- not proven to be, just accused of being adulterous…which the last time i checked takes two people to accomplish…i m with bill maher: any organized religion is a neurological disorder…but for fuck s sake isn t sharia just a tad much for anyone? if you are only after a reaction, or if you really support those pricks makes no difference to me: fuck off either way how s that for plain?

  170. mika. October 26, 2011 at 12:16 am #

    You get unlimited free oil and other natural resources. Courtesy of US imperial thieving and forcing others to “sell” their precious natural resources for worthless US paper.

  171. asoka. October 26, 2011 at 12:27 am #

    “If you really support those pricks makes no difference to me: fuck off either way how s that for plain?”
    Thanks for illustrating JHK’s thesis this week about the nature of Americans and their ignorance.
    The Arabs developed Sine, Tangent, Co-Tangent functions in trigonometry and Ibn Moosaa’s work Hisaab-Al Jab-Wal Muqaabala (The Calculation of Integration and Equation) presented 800 examples. His work was translated from Arabic into Latin and until the 16th century CE, it was Europe’s main textbook on the subject.
    I could go on and tell you about Muslim contributions in Algebra, Chemistry and Physics and how Islam has contributed to World Civilization… but somehow I think it would be lost on you.

  172. charliefoxtrot October 26, 2011 at 12:34 am #

    spare us

  173. fiedag October 26, 2011 at 1:03 am #

    You should never say that lightly about any nation, be they Europeans, middle Eastern or South East Asian rice farmers.
    Most nations in this world have amply demonstrated their courage and resolve to fight in miserable conditions and die in large numbers if the cause is just.
    Remember WWII casualties per head of population were far greater in Europe than in the US. Cities were trashed and millions of civilians slaughtered or starved.
    It might go some way to explaining why Europe lost its stomach for militarism in a way the US unfortunately didn’t.
    If all that looks like European are soft or effete now, I think you might be mistaken but I hope we never find out.

  174. Norman Conquest October 26, 2011 at 1:17 am #

    I think the US Military is way overrated in your mind. We have spent the past 65+ years beating up on third rate countries and failed states. The pentagon’s budget is usually about a billion dollars a day, more however, if you expect them to actually try to fight someone. We lost in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan (just to name a few) even though our opponents were chosen for their perceived weakness. Then, when they kicked out asses in assymetrical warfare, we ran away crying “Terrorism!”. One day we will meet our match and that will be a sad day for us but billions around the world will rejoice!

  175. mika. October 26, 2011 at 1:27 am #

    The Arabs developed
    No, they transmitted (via their Jewish subjects) conquered knowledge from the western world back to the western world. Knowledge the western world already had thousands of years prior, but had lost due to the Vatican’s war on “heresy”, basically anything to do with truth and enlightenment.
    This same old process of calcification is taking place in the Islamic world, where the highest scientific illiteracy rate in the world (after Tibet) is to be found.
    What this should tell you, is that the basic purpose of religion is to calcify the status-quo and suppress any and all pursuit for knowledge and enlightenment.
    Mass knowledge and enlightenment are enemies of the elite, because mass knowledge and enlightenment leads to a change in awareness, and this can provide a high probability for change in political power.

  176. truthteller October 26, 2011 at 1:46 am #

    Always so much bullshit here, from the original post all the way down through the comments section. Yes, the Swedes are fabulous, and we Americans suck ass. Whah, whah, whah . . . while every single one of us (with perhaps the exception of Tripp) lives in a fully modern house, with electricity, hot and cold running water, and probably a goddamned high-speed internet connection too (considering how you do all like to fuss and grumble 🙂
    Goddamn, it’s HORRIBLE! 🙂 I for one can’t WAIT to go back to the day of no dental anesthesia, and the plague 🙂 Son of a bitch! You mean, I get to EAT FOOD and sleep IN A DRY SPOT during my short time on this planet? :)~ Horrifying! 🙂
    Myrtle, I liked your post. You are one of the few with a sense of humor about it all, IMO. Thanks!

  177. asoka. October 26, 2011 at 2:18 am #

    “Then, when they kicked out asses in assymetrical warfare, we ran away crying “Terrorism!”.
    And tried to blame them peaceniks for undermining morale, or tried to blame them “damn politicians” for holding back our military… or tried to blame someone, anyone, for the rules of engagement and SOFA agreements …
    Tried to blame whoever they could, except for our own incompetent military.
    Billion dollars a day down a rat hole.

  178. asoka. October 26, 2011 at 2:28 am #

    So, according to your theory, from what Hebrew word does “algebra” dervive?
    Algebra comes from the Arabic al jebr “reunion of broken parts,” as in computation, used in the 9th century by Baghdad mathematician Abu Ja’far Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi.
    It wasn’t conquered knowledge. Algebra wasn’t stolen from the Jews and recycled.
    Give credit where credit is due.
    From the Jewish Encyclopedia:

    With the exception of the above-mentioned “Mishnat Middot,” no work on algebra or geometry is known to have been written in Hebrew before the twelfth century.

    The Jews were about three centuries late to the algebra party! 🙂

  179. trippticket October 26, 2011 at 7:12 am #

    Looks like the commentary flood gates have reopened, and that’s a good thing in my book.
    To get your day started, here’s a quick and gratuitous YouTube video of some adorable Nordic children (mine) riding their Missouri Foxtrotter Smokey in the Ozarks. [1:37 won’t take up too much of your arguing time!;)]
    When it’s over a mosaic of other video options will fill the screen as usual. The one called “Tibbetts Cave Men” (should be top left) is of me and my dad crawling through a limestone cave high up on a bluff above the Big Piney river valley in the Missouri Ozarks. Breathtaking country!!

  180. Pucker October 26, 2011 at 7:36 am #

    How ’bout this for an idea?
    In addition to Crimes Against Humanity, Human Rights Violations, War Crimes, etc., why not have a new category of crime: Crimes Against Culture?
    One could sue for: strip malls, fast food, TV, public education, Walmart, the list is endless….

  181. progress2conserve October 26, 2011 at 8:15 am #

    I guess I’ll answer my own question, since no one else is going to:
    “Islam begins to have a noticeable presence in Sweden with immigration from the Middle East beginning in the 1970s.
    Most Muslims in Sweden are either immigrants or descendants of those immigrants. The majority of them are from the Middle East, especially Iraq and Iran. The second largest Muslim group consists of immigrants or refugees from former Yugoslavia, most of them Bosniaks. There is also a sizeable community of Somalis and Moroccans.”
    As to WHY??
    Probably a combination of humanitarian impulse plus a desire for cheap and compliant labor to “do the jobs that Swedes won’t do.”
    What a great joke.
    With a punch line that’s still being written.

  182. ozone October 26, 2011 at 8:37 am #

    You and WSP are gonna have to cut that stuff out; it might force me to live up to your estimations.
    To paraphrase the WWW (wicked witch o’ da west):
    All of my beautiful asshole-ishness… gone, gone, gone to shit…

  183. ozone October 26, 2011 at 8:52 am #

    And, on top of that, you’ve got Jevon’s Paradox to contend with. (I had to go back into Tripp’s smallbatch blog to find that name; found it second shot. My reading comprehension is still pretty intact. ;o)
    Anytime technology makes a resource more efficient to use, MORE of it WILL be used. (I think we can see the resulting clusterfuck all about us.)

  184. ozone October 26, 2011 at 8:55 am #

    Ps. Tripp’s blog is always a good place to be “forced” to reference. lol

  185. trippticket October 26, 2011 at 9:00 am #


  186. Confusionism October 26, 2011 at 9:14 am #

    “Catch 22?
    Imagine what Vonnegut could have done with this!”
    Did you mean Heller?

  187. ozone October 26, 2011 at 9:26 am #

    Sounds a bit like “lifestyle justification” to me.
    My buddy always answers his phone this way: “What are YOU doin’?”
    Somebody guessed that we have about 5 years left until the juice gets thin. I’m hoping his guess is correct.

  188. charliefoxtrot October 26, 2011 at 10:12 am #

    “…do the jobs ____________ won t do…” i ve heard that bs my entire working life…the reality is that we won t do those jobs FOR THAT KIND OF MONEY…it seems to have become justification for depressing all wages; not just labor: almost poetic justice for the suits & neckties who ve taken advantage of the working class for so long…if not for our very real suffering along with it…

  189. charliefoxtrot October 26, 2011 at 10:15 am #

    how about just prosecuting the ones we already have?!

  190. mika. October 26, 2011 at 10:48 am #

    Jews at that time generally would not use Hebrew in daily use. Hebrew at the time was considered a holy language (sefat hakodesh) and was reserved mainly for liturgical purposes.
    When the arab jihadis invaded egypt, one of the first things they did is burn down the great library in Alexandria. The same fate awaited other great libraries elsewhere. What little that was saved, was saved by jews and other Roman individuals who had their own private copies of these works. When jews came under the subjugation of the arabs, these works were translated from greek and latin to arabic, because that was the language jews came to use under jihadi subjugation.
    When the arabized jiahdi armies invaded Europe, and centuries later were pushed back to africa by the spanish and the french, these private works became the war booty of european warlords who then had them re-translated from arabic back into latin. The translators, again, were mainly jews.

  191. SNAFU October 26, 2011 at 10:53 am #

    Howdy Progressor, Per your contention “And a lot of mid-income US citizens ALREADY PAY 50% – when federal, state, local, sales, & property taxes are added into the mix.
    I know I do.”
    I thought about what you said and decided to check out your contention using the only such data I have at hand; mine.
    Retirement = 45,000
    Federal taxes = 4500
    State taxes = 500
    Property taxes = 3000
    Sales tax = 1400
    Total taxes = 9400
    Percent of income to taxes 9400/45000 = 20.8%
    As a retiree I get a NY break on my state taxes so let us triple them to 1500 yielding an adjusted percentage of income to taxes of
    10400/45000 = 23.1%
    Therefore my US/NY citizen tax burden is less than half your estimated tax burden how is this possible?

  192. charliefoxtrot October 26, 2011 at 11:12 am #

    hadn t looked at your blog til now; my loss! danged interesting stuff, a few things i ll be trying…i already have some packs of mycorrhizae, & i wonder if it would help to add to my vegetable garden, and if so would it be better now or wait til spring?

  193. mika. October 26, 2011 at 11:26 am #

    One other thing, Asoka:
    You seem to constantly confuse the behavior of individual culturalized muslims, and the malevolent behavior of institutional islam.
    I’m sure you would agree, there plenty of fine individuals that are members of the US military. But that should not in any way excuse the malevolent institutional behavior of the US military.

  194. bossier22 October 26, 2011 at 1:03 pm #

    Tripp, beautiful kids on a beautiful horse. It has been so long since I have been horseback. I think I would feels as excited as the baby was to ride again.

  195. treuburger October 26, 2011 at 1:22 pm #

    I blame it on the jet lag that Jim didn’t spot the new mosque in Gothenburg.
    And the quite fecund if not so elegantly wrapped in medieval rags new segment of the Swedish population.
    And the fact that Jews are not really welcome there any more, thanks to that “new segment” and its very motivated and vigorous “youth”.
    Long before Jims favourite peak oil boogeyman shows up, Europe will have a more immediate task of figuring out how to dispose of the millions of pieces of human garbage that have been accumulating there lately. To see how quickly things can change from calm and elegant to quite energetic, look at the late-1930s photos of life in Berlin or Warsaw, the pleasures and normalcy of daily life, and then compare them to images taken only a few years later when things really got going. It shouldn’t be that hard to imagine the pampered generation, for now just carrying on with their metrosexual ways, reaching for weapons and their inner Viking to get the messy job done, just like their ancestors did many times before. Not to mention that for every seemingly emasculated European there is a less visible nationalist skinhead who does not even pretend to be tolerant any more. Bike lanes and good bread can occupy people’s mind for only so long….

  196. jackieblue2u October 26, 2011 at 1:39 pm #

    Yep just when I was thinking maybe THAT was a good place to live.
    ‘They’re everywhere’. One World. Liked it better
    Before I knew so much, yet so little.

  197. anti soak October 26, 2011 at 1:48 pm #

    Now thats a riposte!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    atta boy [or girl].
    ‘bike lanes and good bread’!

  198. jackieblue2u October 26, 2011 at 1:51 pm #

    Courtesy Decency what a concept around here.
    I pretty much cannot stand it ‘out there’ anymore.
    Rude Crude Stupid and they are everywhere, in a hurry, won’t let you in if driving no matter what. What THEM stop for a mere mortal ? don’t care if you are in danger, etc.
    some actually get off on it. others are just ignorant and stupid.
    some are courteous, most are not. I am in CA
    wtf happened ?

  199. jackieblue2u October 26, 2011 at 1:58 pm #

    I guess U.S. ?
    who do they blame ?

  200. jackieblue2u October 26, 2011 at 2:05 pm #

    Where and why did they go ? all at once seems like. do you know.

  201. BeantownBill October 26, 2011 at 2:09 pm #

    Snafu, there are a lot of “hidden taxes” as well. Did you count the taxes on every gallon of gasoline you buy? That’s not considere3d a sales tax, per se.
    Take a loaf of bread you buy at the supermarket. It starts off as a grain growing in a farmer’s field, and ends up in your body, which processes it, takes out the nutrients and excretes the remains. The farmer gets paid and ultimately pays a tax on that source of income. The food processor who bought the grain and turns it into bread, makes a profit when the bread is sold to a food wholesaler, makes an income which is taxed. The wholesaler sells to a distributor and gets taxed on its income. The distributor sells to a food retailer, creating income and gets taxed. The retailer sells to you, makes an income on the sale, and gets taxed.
    Now, all down the line those involved in getting your loaf of bread to you had to estimate their costs, part of which are taxes. These costs are also passed on to the next in line by the price they have to pay to allow those before them to make a profit. Guess who’s at the end of the line? You are. All the taxes paid to ultimately get you your bread are finally paid by you as reflected in the purchase price of that loaf of bread.
    There are myriad other forms of hidden taxes you pay, so I believe that 50% taxes is actually too low a figure.

  202. Bustin J October 26, 2011 at 3:29 pm #

    “insufferable” said, “Has onyone here heard of the group Anonymous? I recently realized (I must be slow) that they are somewhat behind the Wall Street Protestors, the riots in England, etc. I logged onto various UTube bits they put out.”
    Whats your source on this info insuf?

  203. turkle October 26, 2011 at 4:52 pm #

    Gothenburg has a pretty sweet heavy metal scene, too.

  204. Outpost of the Empire October 26, 2011 at 4:55 pm #

    I thought that I would change the tone and subject content for I moment by drawing readers attention to a good column in The Tyee by Andrew Nikiforuk. It presents some very interesting data on the Alberta Tar Sands. This item was posted October 26th. Check it out! The Tyee has printed other thought prevoking columns by this author that readers of this blog could find interesting and informative.

  205. turkle October 26, 2011 at 5:00 pm #

    I’m hoping the Bronze Age Christians and the Dark Age Muslims can get together and kill each other without taking the rest of us with them. But it isn’t looking good.

  206. budizwiser October 26, 2011 at 5:00 pm #

    Is it just me – or isn’t Herman Cain some kind of fake prop to make some other candidate look more plausible?
    I mean -who the “f” would think that this “9 9 9” think is anything but nutty garbage?
    I think what is remarkable about these “conservative” types is that there hasn’t been any discussion about anything that matters to people who work for a living.
    If you are not a day-trader, a corporate chief, bank president or some mystery mega-rich bond holder {T-bill buyer/trader}you may as well not even claim any stake to America.
    MY bad, sorry about the post.

  207. turkle October 26, 2011 at 5:02 pm #

    I thought 9.99 was the price of a personal-sized pizza pie.

  208. progress2conserve October 26, 2011 at 5:18 pm #

    I did indeed mean Heller, as the author of Catch 22, instead of Vonnegut. Thanks for clearing up the Confusion – ism. hah

  209. CMHGreenGuy October 26, 2011 at 5:32 pm #

    I recently returned from Europe and know exactly what Jim is talking about.
    We did a week-long bike trip across the Netherlands. I’m semi-fluent in Dutch and saw a number of places along Dutch bike trails where there were signs that said “slecht wegdek.” This essentially translates to “rough pavement.” I really got a laugh out of these signs because there was not a single section marked by such a sign that we Americans would consider rough in any way. What the Dutch consider “slecht wegdek” I consider to be the normal condition of American bike trails – if we are lucky (lucky enough to have a bike trail and to have it be in such good condition).

  210. progress2conserve October 26, 2011 at 5:53 pm #

    “Therefore my US/NY citizen tax burden is less than half your estimated tax burden how is this possible?”
    First, SNAFU – let me congratulate you on an enviable tax situation. And you benefit as a retiree and from a senior discount on your house.
    I’m half expecting the opposite – a Senior Surcharge – by the time I hit my mid sixties.
    And I’ll refer you to BTB’s answer – there are hidden taxes baked into the cost of everything we do – you left those out of your estimate.
    As to my situation. We have been so focused on “marginal Federal tax rates” for so long in this country – that I tend to think that way – for my spendable dollars.
    Which gives us:
    28% Federal Tax – (marginal rate, I know)
    12.2% Social Security self-employment tax
    6% Georgia income tax*
    7% sales tax – local and state
    53.2 – Total tax on last “disposable” dollars
    DAMN – It’s worse than I thought. And I own a fair amount of real estate, so my local tax bite is even higher than average – and much higher than yours.
    SNAF, I’m no accountant – thank God (god?) – and I probably just proved that to anyone who may have doubted it. In other words, I know I’m finagling the 28% rate as though ALL my income was taxed at that rate – just to make the numbers look really bad on those “last few spendable dollars.”
    And I’m all in favor of an intensely escalating “progressive Federal income tax.” If I made $1 million/year (hah!) – I’d be happy to pay 90% marginal taxes on my last $100K of income – as long as the other $900K was taxed at sharply lower rates, for example.
    *Georgia – used to have a “progressive” income tax like this – in the early 1960’s. But they never indexed the rates for inflation.
    So Georgia residents pay 6% on all ordinary income above $7000. Which really, really sucks – for our middle class wage earners.
    BTW, Confusionism has graded me on knowledge of authors. You, SNAFU, have graded me on math.
    And I’ve just – deliberately – teed up a large pile of accounting legerdemain, just to “prove” a point – – and to give Q something to grade me on, upon his return.

  211. progress2conserve October 26, 2011 at 6:02 pm #

    “Where and why did they go ? all at once seems like. do you know?”
    -jackie blue 2U, referencing wage, hancock, etc-
    Jackie – JHK or his tech guy, or somebody, really turned up the Spam Filter on this site about a month ago.
    I’m afraid a lot of people kept getting blocked and banned and just GAVE UP.
    I hope Bill of BeanTown is right – that they’ll come back, eventually.

  212. progress2conserve October 26, 2011 at 6:19 pm #

    “…Islam has contributed to World Civilization… but somehow I think it would be lost on you.”
    -asoka, slinging insult toward CharlieFoxtrot-
    Charlie Foxtrot – if you really want to hear a story, get asoka. started on a Sufi Muslim by the name of Mansur.
    It’s a chilling story – what Mansur’s own Brother Muslims did to him – cutting off his feet, legs, hands, and arms as he prayed. And in downtown Mecca, no less.
    Mansur and the Sufis honestly sound like pretty good guys – with some of the Love and Brotherhood that Jesus may have had in mind.
    It’s too bad Islam has moved violently away from Sufi ways of thinking.
    I know, I know – Christianity has moved away from Jesus’ way of thinking, too.

  213. charliefoxtrot October 26, 2011 at 7:18 pm #

    yeah, naw, i think i ll leave well enough alone…i really don t like reacting like that no matter how provoked…it s just that i agree w/ mika on religion in general; to me the muslims have the added “bonus” of mistreating women…besides from what i ve read the last few months that reaction is all soak is after- not a fair discussion, by any means, so why bother? that said, i freely admit now i ll more than likely scrap with him again, as i have an ankle-high tolerance for stupid…

  214. ozone October 26, 2011 at 7:50 pm #

    Only one numba on god now, sailor-boy, and his name, Mammon.
    Bow down or disengage.

  215. ozone October 26, 2011 at 7:51 pm #

    “numba ONE” Geeeeez. ;o)

  216. turkle October 26, 2011 at 7:58 pm #

    “Christianity has moved away from Jesus’ way of thinking, too.”
    Yeah, the Jesus version of Christianity lasted for a good 100 years or so until the Catholic church and Roman Empire took over. Then it was all burning at the stake and gouging out the eyes of the unbelievers.

  217. progress2conserve October 26, 2011 at 8:34 pm #

    Blocked post to ozone – for NO REASON!!!
    “Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner.”
    -lies, damned lies, and this bull sh*t-
    You’re losing us, JHK.

  218. dgmoocher October 26, 2011 at 8:53 pm #

    Ditto Italy. Well dressed, normally sized people who are happy to be alive and not covered with tattoos and rolls of fat. We used to be like them. *Sigh*

  219. DavidinLosAngeles October 26, 2011 at 9:09 pm #

    Sounds like you had a good time cycling in the Netherlands, CMH. I was in Spain last month, I rented a bike and rode around Sevilla one day. The public bike rental kiosks are very convenient, there are over a hundred in Sevilla. There was gridlock auto traffic everywhere, but no SUVs and no road rage. Europeans are much more civil than Americans, no doubt about it. I’ve been back in L.A. for four weeks now and I’m still shaking my head over how nasty people are here. Well, nothing new there but after you’ve been abroad it becomes glaringly obvious. And yes, the people in Europe are so much more attractive physically than Americans. Every 7th or 8th person you pass on the street in Spain is absolutely beautiful, and dressed well. The children are poised, joyful, and well-groomed (no baggy Batman T-Shirts, no scraggly haircuts). They’re like mini-adults. I have an acquaintance who is a modeling agent, she’s been in the business since the 1960s. She says the American Female Beauty gene petered out around 1983, modeling agencies hardly even bother scouting in the U.S. anymore. Scandinavians and Africans are about the only people left on Earth who have cheekbones.

  220. progress2conserve October 26, 2011 at 10:16 pm #

    “…..to be heavily claimed by undocumented workers;if their tax bills dip below zero, they can collect government checks.”
    Great, just great – we are doomed as a country – and we’re paying top dollar for the privilege.

  221. progress2conserve October 26, 2011 at 10:56 pm #

    Blocked and 403’ed again.
    For no reason, that I can discern.
    James Howard Kunstler – this is stupid.
    Fix your comments section – or shut it down.
    What is the point, otherwise?

  222. progress2conserve October 26, 2011 at 11:02 pm #

    And all I have to do to get back on and post – is to reset the DSL modem, and restart the computer.
    It’s not rocket surgery.
    8M could do it. Fab/Toot could do it.
    Wonder why our thoughtful posters won’t do it?
    My local paper’s website just went to a “paywall” model, and shut down their public comment threads.
    Atlanta Police are forcibly moving OWS protesters out of Woodruff Park tonight.
    I wonder if these three, seemingly random, events are connected.
    Conspiracy, anyone??

  223. Bustin J October 26, 2011 at 11:16 pm #

    Put bankers to work in the fields.

  224. MADMAX October 26, 2011 at 11:19 pm #

    I think Jim is a runner.

  225. progress2conserve October 26, 2011 at 11:26 pm #

    “Put bankers to work in the fields.”
    -bustin J-
    Bustin – not you, too.
    You are saying that honest farm work is – so impossibly horrible, nasty, and/or degrading –
    that it should only be done by illegal immigrants
    or by bankers.
    On beautiful fall days like we’ve been having lately – I’d rather be outside in the fields – than inside in a bank.
    Maybe we’d be better off if first generation immigrants were forced to be bankers –
    at minimum wage.
    Then, farm workers could earn $1000/hour – minimum – plus health care, company car, and stock options.

  226. charliefoxtrot October 27, 2011 at 12:05 am #

    considering the scarcity of regulars lately, shouldn t we give bustin the benefit of the doubt: bustin, shirley you meant good, hard, honest labor would be good for the bankers…right? no disrespect meant, huh? prog, that $1000/hr still seems like a great idea for those of us with our fingernails “dirty”…

  227. AMR October 27, 2011 at 1:34 am #

    I hear that rocket surgery pays well, what with the federal defense contracts and all.
    On a serious note, I just lost to the Memory Hole a six-paragraph post that was entirely relevant to the theme of Jim’s essay this week, as well as to some of his recurring cultural themes.
    Jim, FYI, this blog’s criteria for the withholding of posts have become inscrutable, and the quality of field reporting and commentary from your audience is plummeting as a result. The baby is being thrown out with the bathwater.

  228. turkle October 27, 2011 at 2:22 am #

    There is some kind of quirky automatic filter in place which I believe is a plugin to the blog software. It was even worse before when the thing was blocking IP addresses, and you couldn’t even get to the blog at all (!).
    It also seems to be based on frequency of posting such that if you post a couple things in row, it will start denying your posts.
    I’d recommend composing long posts in an external editor and then pasting in if you’re worried about losing them.

  229. D R Lunsford October 27, 2011 at 6:07 am #

    JHK, when it comes to skewering the piggish and the pierced, you have no equal. But here’s some hope from Italy:
    I am a physicist – this is real. While the mainstream of physics occupied itself with multiverses, wormholes, 10 dimensional strings, eternal inflation, and other drug-addled visions, there was right under our noses a new phenomenon that is destined to change everything. When this phenomenon first emerged into the light, the response of the physics community was to hound the discoverers out of their careers and then out of the country itself. The brutish and self-indulgent idiocy of mainstream science perfectly parallels the thuggish narcissism of latter day Americans. But, it appears that once again, old white men in Italy have interrupted the dark ages.

  230. trippticket October 27, 2011 at 7:38 am #

    I got 403’d last night for no effin’ reason. Had a post to Charliefoxtrot, a rather thoughtful post, held for review, got irritated, and closed the Kunstler tab on my browser. Nothing further. Tried to go back later after doing some work in the garden, and it blocked me! Geez, I hate this shit.
    Anyway, I’m back on now, and I thought I’d post a follow-up comment about the “eating for your blood type” question I posed last week (that no one answered). One is generally only moved to ask such things when one is benefitting (or suffering) from the item in question, and I woke up this morning to find my hands clasped over my head, resting on my pillow, and felt so-moved. This is one of my favorite ways to lie in bed and wake up, but the arthritis in my right shoulder had been getting progressively worse for the last couple of months, to the point where my right arm was becoming mostly useless, and causing me a good deal of pain.
    Well, desperate times call for desperate measures, and I listened to the blood type folks, decided to cut wheat and refined sugar (specific to my O type) out of my diet for starters. Been a mere 5 days without those two things, and my joints are coming back to life in a hurry. I feel like a large deposit of glue (gluten?), spread around all my joints and digestive system, is exiting my body. I’ve been peeing more often, eliminating stored toxins no doubt, and my energy level is rising noticeably. And if I’m not mistaken, I’ve lost at least 5 pounds in those 5 days.
    For me it’s hard to eat without including wheat and sugar, might not be for others, but so far it’s really been worth the effort to do so!

  231. trippticket October 27, 2011 at 7:39 am #

    Bossier, thanks for the compliment regarding my little ones!

  232. trippticket October 27, 2011 at 7:41 am #

    charliefoxtrot, definitely use those myccorhizal fungi, but introduce them at the same time you’re seeding or transplanting starts. Top-dress with compost and cover that with high-carbon mulch, lots of it, and then sit back and be amazed…

  233. charliefoxtrot October 27, 2011 at 8:40 am #

    thanks yo seasoned wood chips qualify as high-carbon, right? hope so; got piles of em! and didn t you say we should cut out fat too? would it help to, say, stop buttering my bacon? c mon, i eat tofu & stuff!

  234. progress2conserve October 27, 2011 at 8:44 am #

    Hey DR, glad to see you posting. You are an optimist in a sea of realists and pessimists. Which is not altogether, a bad thing.
    “When this phenomenon first emerged into the light, the response of the physics community was to hound the discoverers out of their careers and then out of the country itself.” -D R L-
    As a physicist, DR, you should know that words do not change physics. I’m pretty sure that if this process could be replicated – somebody would have figured out how to do it by now. But that’s just my opinion – I’ll wait for further evidence before drawing conclusions.
    Meanwhile – since this process uses metallic nickle – stocking up on nickle seems a useful course of action for individuals. I have been doing it for months, now.
    How? By buying US nickles. The nickle is the only piece of US coinage that still contains “valuable” metal. One nickle is worth about 8 cents, already. Every time I go to the (to small to fail?) bank, I come home with 10 rolls of nickles. I’ve got $400 worth in the basement in a medium/small cardboard box already. The box will hold $900 – 450 rolls of nickles. Let me tell you, no single thief is going to pick up $900 worth of nickles and walk off with it – unlike gold.
    I just thought buying nickle was a po’ man’s way of storing coins of value for the coming currency collapse. Or, for having a little cash to buy beer if household money runs short. But now, I find out that I’ve got the fuel for my own personal cold fusion power plant.

  235. progress2conserve October 27, 2011 at 8:51 am #

    “I got 403’d last night for no effin’ reason.”
    Yeah, lot of that going on, Tripp. I don’t think it’s related to number of posts – I’m posting as much or more than anyone else right now, partly in an effort to prove this idea.
    more coming

  236. progress2conserve October 27, 2011 at 8:58 am #

    It’s got something to do with embedded links – but not always. I’ve had pure text blocked, once or twice.
    It IS DEFINITELY related to trying to force a post to post – after it has been “held for review.”
    That’ll get you banned in only one attempt, I have learned.
    I’m type 0 negative, myself – the universal donor.
    Intuitively, I’ve always eaten lots of meat.
    I’m pretty sure I could thrive on – pretty much – nothing but meat and animal products. Like a wolf – or an Eskimo.
    (Anti-soak, I know you disagree. What’s your blood type? Wonder if there’s a relationship to successful veganism and blood type?)
    Moderation, thought. I think a healthy, active adult should be able to eat any food in some amount. So, maybe you can add in a little bread and sugar when your shoulder straightens out.

  237. progress2conserve October 27, 2011 at 9:08 am #

    “shouldn t we give bustin the benefit of the doubt”
    -charles of foxtrot nation-
    Sure, I’ll give anyone the benefit of the doubt.
    Although bustin and I have been bustin’ on each other for months now – all part of the CFN fun.
    It is nice to picture a bunch of bankers out doing honest work in the sun. I’m pretty sure the world would be a better place if everyone in leadership would do a little honest physical labor every day.
    Tripp – can you recommend (without getting banned again???) a website supplying commercial spores and advice for the southeast?
    Where do you get your spores and advice, again?
    A lot of fungi websites seem to be based in the northwest – which makes sense – but it’s a long way from temperate rain forest to hot roasting GA summers. That’s important, right?

  238. progress2conserve October 27, 2011 at 9:12 am #

    If this posts, it makes 5 posts in 25 minutes or so.
    So I don’t think it’s total numbers of posts that leads to the blocks and 403’s.
    You think JHK just likes jerking his followers around?
    You think his webguy hates us?
    This is a little weird to be totally random.
    Or is it a little random to be totally weird?

  239. charliefoxtrot October 27, 2011 at 9:21 am #

    riiiiight…problem is the energy is only free to those who can afford the €40 million license…you got that, you re not so worried about the light bill! it will be interesting to see how things shake out (down!)…ha ha, italians…

  240. ak October 27, 2011 at 9:22 am #

    I don’t think it’s the author or his web guy.
    It’s just the software package they use for this thing, and it seems it has some issues…
    Here’s some reading about the different spam filters it can employ, and it’s probably one of them either misconfigured or buggy:
    Website like this most likely needs a more-or-less full-time moderator, but the revenue generated probably doesn’t justify one.
    Maybe one/more of us posters should volunteer…

  241. ozone October 27, 2011 at 10:09 am #

    …Another country heard from. A commenter on information clearing house (.info) responded to the following part of an original (and looooong) historical harangue. Not inaccurate, but the dreams of future-past are dependent on resources and political will. (IOW, not gonna happen. Too late, too late, the fascists are firmly ensconced.)
    “…the United States still has the world’s strongest military, and the U.S. economy remains diverse and technologically advanced.”
    Not for long. With a population purposely driven into ignorance, the US will within a few years collapse suddenly and irrevocably. The author’s suggestion of funding education and infrastructure is laughable It won’t happen because people with no values, neither moral nor cultural, have total control of the US. Get out now unless you want to live in penury in a wicked police state.
    My response: Ouch.

  242. ozone October 27, 2011 at 10:10 am #

    Got thoughtful “culture”? I’d say, not.

  243. ozone October 27, 2011 at 10:19 am #

    I did all the cut ‘n paste of that post in wordpad before even signing in. I’m such a slow typist that I’m a’feared of spending too much time “signed in”, thinking that might be a factor in The Great Spurning.
    Did you stay “signed in” for all those consecutive posts?
    (It’s still my contention that the software has been purposefully screwed-with for this particularly “dangerous” blog. People discussing reality, instead of teevee and sports frivolity, is strictly verboten. Try it on the street sometime, you’ll see what I mean…)

  244. D R Lunsford October 27, 2011 at 10:39 am #

    This is from 13 years ago
    “Anomalous Heat Effects Correlated with Electrochemical Hydriding of Nickel”
    Mengoli, Bernardini, Manducchi, and Zannoni
    Nuovo Cimento 20D, p. 331-352 (1998)
    It is the same process Rossi and Focardi have exploited to make the e-cat. Tomorrow there is test of a 1MW plant. PS, Nuovo Cimento is a famous journal with a rich history, not some crazy rag.

  245. dale October 27, 2011 at 10:57 am #

    Dale………its good to know you are playin devils advocate to Jimmy doom and gloom Kunstler..
    This article…you believe it?
    I think my point was precisely that “belief” is best reserved for religion, and left out of politics and economics. That however, seems to be completely contrary to human nature, as anyone reading this blog would easily conclude.

  246. anti soak October 27, 2011 at 11:14 am #

    I looked at the Wall Street Journal..even it announces ‘We Are 7 billion’ and a letter to the editor from a Miss Szrom saying the best Immigration policy is the lady with the ‘huddled masses’ sign!!!!!!!!!!
    Guess Miss Szrom of Valparaiso Indiana doesnt know about Emma Lazarus and the history of that sign.
    WSJ had a story once entitled ‘Immigrants will save Social Security’.
    Europe will be bailed out today?

  247. progress2conserve October 27, 2011 at 11:30 am #

    DR – I’ve got a science background myself. And I’m a natural born skeptic. I’ll admit some of the cold fusion stuff has looked pretty interesting.
    But changing one nucleus into another nucleus involves adding a proton – that’s nuclear fusion, by definition, I’d say.
    If that can be made to happen at achievable temperatures and pressures – and in a leftover shipping container, no less – – –
    Let’s just say I’m going to have to see it with my own eyes before I will completely believe it.
    But my eyes remain open to more information.

  248. D R Lunsford October 27, 2011 at 11:36 am #

    In otherwise empty space you must smash atoms together with sufficient violence to overcome their natural shielding, that is, their electron layers, and the Coloumb repulsion of their nuclei. But this is not empty space – the hydrogen atoms suffuse into the metal lattice of the nickel (nickel hydride) where strange collective quantum mechanical phenomena can occur. The precedent for this is in super- and semi-conductivity, where electrons behave in a collective manner and develop properties they do not have in free space. In superconductivity, the electrons pair with each other via lattice interaction, in spite of their extreme distaste for being close to each other. Once paired they are bosons and exhibit collective Bosonic behavior via Bose condensation. It is entirely possible for something analogous to happen with protons when a lattice mediator is at hand – the nickel substrate. The nickel atoms are transumted to copper and apparently, iron.
    Superconductivity was known for 30 years before a good theory of it showed up (Bardeen Cooper Schrieffer).

  249. progress2conserve October 27, 2011 at 11:48 am #

    Ozone – I did stay signed in continuously for those 5 posts in 25 minutes this morning.
    “(It’s still my contention that the software has been purposefully screwed-with for this particularly “dangerous” blog.”
    Ozone, I’ve thought of that possibility, myself.
    Certainly some of the spam-like posts are designed to “muddy the water,” if nothing else. But spam is ubiquitous – and muddies the water everywhere.
    Old FabToot/Lil’Jimbo/TsaTas/dickdick/head/head is DEFINITELY trying to derail purposeful discourse.
    To some large extent asoka. is also DEFINITELY going for heat (anger) and not light, in most of his posts – thus deliberately derailing purposeful discourse.
    But that’s just two individuals.
    So, I don’t know.
    I don’t think this sabotage could be deliberate – UNLESS JHK (or his webguy, at minimum) was a deliberate participant in it.
    Would JHK deliberately suborn the sabotage of his own blog. I somehow, don’t think so.
    But my eyes remain open –

  250. progress2conserve October 27, 2011 at 11:56 am #

    “nickel (nickel hydride) where strange collective quantum mechanical phenomena can occur…”
    -Dr. Lunsford-
    Hey, DR, I’m not trying to argue with you. (Well, maybe just a little.) You know more about it than I do. I hope it all works out and these devices become commonly available to all people in all Nations.
    The skeptic in me says that adding a proton to a nucleus isn’t happening in a device that looks like college lab equipment. But I could be wrong.
    But, I’m about to go to town for supplies. Maybe I’ll drop by the bank and pick up a few more rolls of nickles –
    Just in case, you know. 😉

  251. CaptSpaulding October 27, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    I agree with you MIKA, there was a time when Islam was the most progressive institution around, giving equal rights to women, Jews, etc. Along with that enlightened culture, they led the world in knowledge. Unfortunately, over the centuries, the hard core religious elements gained power and turned Islam into what you see today. A very intolerant society, no respect for women, and the kind of people who would blow up precious relics like the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan for example. As it stands today, I regard Islam as a failed culture. The same thing would happen here if we allowed the Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell religious fundimentalist elements to gain power. Intolerance isn’t restricted to any single group.

  252. rippedthunder October 27, 2011 at 12:21 pm #

    Hi Prog, By all means get the nickles. Read here if you have not seen it.
    Those nickles are only 25% nickle but still worth 5.5 cents at todays prices. Instant 10% profit! Awhile back they were worth almost 7.5 cents. Instant 50%! This fella bought a million dollars worth!

  253. jackieblue2u October 27, 2011 at 12:57 pm #

    Thank You.
    wow didn’t know I was that easy to let go !
    I know for awhile I would try to post and it would say again and again timed out and i had to
    re sign in over and over. i did give up for awhile.
    Now was away for awhile, and when I came back,
    almost all oldtimers are gone.
    well all we can do is hope they come back.
    maybe with different names even.
    Seasons Greetings.
    I think I’ve been on here the longest actually.
    I had a different name, but then this one came up that I use somewhere else, so I kept it, I don’t really know how all this works so much.

  254. jackieblue2u October 27, 2011 at 1:00 pm #

    i would have been axed for posting too much and the most lame stuff also. hey i Do try.
    why doesn’t the moderator, tell us what gives.
    did you ax these guys. CASH and the rest ?
    or did they abandon us ?
    we deserve to know.
    jhk ?
    we enjoyed them, we need their input, they were
    smart ones. inho.

  255. Buck Stud October 27, 2011 at 2:57 pm #

    Don’t fret Jackie – I’m still here. And so is Ozone(apparently the sinister ‘Powers That Be’ don’t feel particularly threatened by conspiracy theories uttered from a rocking chair).
    But if you want to get a response from JHK you’re going to ave to sign your name Jack Waddington and argue for the abolition of mediums-of-exchange systems. Otherwise, foogitaboutit

  256. tstreet October 27, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    You complain about mothers calling their children motherfuckers. And yet, isn’t the name of this column “Clusterfuck Nation?”

  257. ozone October 27, 2011 at 3:54 pm #

    You rang? ;o)
    It’s just that I can get around the banning and blocking by simply turning off the modem for a short bit.
    Does that [essentially] give me a new IP address when I turn it back on?
    I’m quite ignorant of the technological details. (And Dr. Lunsford is driving me to look up even MORE stuff I don’t understand!) Oh well.

  258. ozone October 27, 2011 at 3:59 pm #

    …And that rockin’ chair is gonna have to wait for my shade, ’cause there’s too much to do. When you get there, Buckaroo, you can do my share for me; howzat?
    Snowing now; gonna pick the cabbage…

  259. messianicdruid October 27, 2011 at 5:08 pm #

    An Oct. 19, 2011 Associated Press report on the Federal Reserve banks says this:
    “The 12 regional banks in the Fed system are private companies, and are not part of the U.S. government. They are owned by the banks that they regulate. Each board has three members who represent those banks and six who represent the public.”
    It looks like this information has finally been taken out of the “Conspiracy Theory” category and is now being treated as FACT.
    It’s about *%!#&$* time. Thanks, AP.

  260. george October 27, 2011 at 6:13 pm #

    The Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Zizek, talking on Charlie Rose last night about the Occupy Wall Street Movement, made an excellent point about the problems North Americans face as we enter the future. We can imagine what the end of the world will look like, thanks to Hollywood blockbusters, but we cannot imagine a world where income is distributed more equitably and every facet of our daily lives is not controlled by a giant corporation. The media has done such an excellent job of infantilizing and numbing us that we are hopeless and helpless when even the slightest shock occurs to our daily grind.

  261. Pucker October 27, 2011 at 7:50 pm #

    Thousands of protesters have been arrested for peacefully protesting in the U.S. as part of the OWS protests and not a single person on Wall Street has be arrested and prosecuted by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission for securities fraud violations.
    But, don’t worry because in just 3 more days the Great Pumpkin will arrive to solve all of our problems.

  262. turkle October 27, 2011 at 8:14 pm #

    I agree that the Mad Max predictions can get over the top and have hurt JHK’s credibility. JHK was probably working from information by Colin Campbell, et al, who have predicted steep declines that didn’t occur. Of course, almost no one gets specific predictions right about anything. Even those who predicted events such as the housing crisis were generally foggy on the timing.
    However, Peak Oil is a very useful concept for understanding ongoing events in the world, such as Food Crisis, inflation, debt, etc. even if the predictions of specific people haven’t panned out. And in the grand scheme of things, plus or minus 20 years is not going to turn out to have been a huge deal.
    Also, you speak from the perspective of a WEIRD person, i.e. someone from a Western Educated Industrialized Rich Democratic country. Peak Oil is rearing its head in all kinds of ugly ways, but you’re just sufficiently insulated in the stretch limo of Western civilization that you don’t recognize it. The food crisis that has made front page news around the world in the last couple years is precipitated by primarily two causes: the high cost of fossil fuels, which is key to all modern agricultural systems, and the diversion of food crops to make bio-fuel. If these two things aren’t linked directly to Peak Oil, I dunno what is.
    Anywho, thanks for the posts. You’re always reasonable and civil, even when strongly expressing your disagreements.

  263. turkle October 27, 2011 at 8:15 pm #

    “not a single person on Wall Street has be arrested and prosecuted by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission for securities fraud violations”
    That’s not correct. There’s been 35 or so people brought up on charges just this year.

  264. turkle October 27, 2011 at 8:25 pm #

    That’s quite naive. You paint with an overly broad brush. You’re talking about 2 billion people or so. Of course there are going to be the fringe crazies that blow up statues, bomb things, etc., just like we have Christians who kill abortion doctors. But the vast majority of these people are quite peaceful. If you ask the Libyans, for instance, the majority want a secular democracy. And the same applies to Iraq and other countries. In other words, it varies by place. Some are more extreme than others, Afghanistan being one of the more extreme cases.
    That’s no to say I support that religion in particular. I think it is just as nonsensical as the all the other made-up, hocus pocus religions out there. But to characterize that many people as murderous, woman-hating barbarians is just simple-minded.
    Furthermore, at least in Afghanistan, it is about fighting an occupation, not spreading terror to the entire globe. The conflation of terrorists and irregular ground fighters is simplistic. The book “Imperial Hubris” covers this quite well. The guys in Afghanistan don’t want to come over here and bomb us (well not most of them). They just want us to GTFO of their country. Islamic terrorism is a whole different thing from fighting an occupier, IMHO.

  265. turkle October 27, 2011 at 8:36 pm #

    “almost all oldtimers are gone”
    Not really. I see dale, prog, bud, ozone, mika, asoka, and the pissant (as anti soak) all posting on this thread.

  266. progress2conserve October 27, 2011 at 8:59 pm #

    Still, turk – we’re missing some great perspectives and some great posters.
    Cash – 3 weeks
    Q – 2 weeks
    Wage 2 weeks
    Hancock 2 weeks
    Vlad – 2 weeks
    BubbleHeadMarc 2 weeks
    several others – 2 weeks
    I always get myself in trouble with lists like this – leaving thoughtful posters out.
    You’ve got anti-soak, who was “asia,” confused with the pissant. The real pissant, FabToot – made a brief appearance, maybe 2 weeks ago.
    I think you were taking some of the credit for emailing JHK and getting rid of the PissAnt and rid of the overposting 8M. Maybe not, if memory doesn’t serve.
    Whoever did that, though, might want to email JHK again and try to reclaim the baby that went out with the bath water. I’m feeling myself gradually withdrawing from this website – as it is presently (un)constituting.
    Anyway, turkle – glad you’ve survived to fight another day.

  267. turkle October 27, 2011 at 9:15 pm #

    Hiya, prog.
    You can email him yourself if you have concerns. I feel like I bothered him enough about this stuff. I did request that something be done about 8M and his copy/paste jobs along with asking him to (repeatedly) ban the resident troll.
    JHK is aware that one of the plugins being used here has a side effect of preventing some people from reading the website altogether, but this was not intended. If you get blacklisted by it, a quick email to JHK seems to do the trick. I was unbanned a couple weeks back when I mentioned this to him. Or perhaps it is on a timer. I’m really not sure.
    It seems a little played out here. I feel like the best discussions occurred years ago and that many of the intelligent, informative posters have left because the signal to noise ratio is too low. The pissant definitely drove a lot of people away with his posting on multiple accounts and general flaming stupidity and rudeness. An un-moderated (well it used to be), unthreaded (well it kinda is threaded but not really) discussion forum just doesn’t cut it these days. I’d personally like to see JHK move to a better blogging platform and figure out a way to cut down on the number of garbage comments and troll posts. Otherwise, it is just too much of a hassle to wade through all the crap.

  268. progress2conserve October 27, 2011 at 9:17 pm #

    Hey RT –
    Regarding buying nickles – I actually got the idea from that SurvivalBlog, when someone posted a link to it on CFN months ago.
    I said earlier that nickles had gone to 8 cents each – I was wrong, they never got that high. And you were correct that they are now at 5.5 cents each, plus/minus. There is no doubt they will go higher, some day. An old silver dime is now worth over 2 bucks, for example.
    Still, having a cache of nickles is a sort of harmless thing to be doing. My small/medium cardboard box is now half full. It will be full at $900 dollars worth of nickles – face value. They will weigh about 200 pounds. That will be hard to steal and get anywhere. Plus the box would fall apart unless there were 2 guys on it, probably with a board underneath.
    Anyway, harmless. And perhaps useful.
    Although my nickle stash has led my wife to consider me sightly more crazy than she did formerly.
    And a couple of tellers from the bank look at me funny when they see me out in public, now.
    Gotta love small towns.
    But – if Dale and asoka. are correct – 200 pounds of nickles, worth 900 dollars – will just be one more weird thing for my grandkids to clean out of my basement in 50 years time.
    If D R Lunsford is correct, OTOH, my grandkids will say, “COOL, MORE FUEL!!”

  269. turkle October 27, 2011 at 9:22 pm #

    The blogging software is on the fritz, or at least the plugin that was installed for controlling the trolls (in the last year?) does not work very well. It auto-bans people just for posting frequently. Comments are also withheld for no good reason, which can be frustrating if you write a lengthy post that is then sucked into the memory hole. Sometimes you can’t even see the website and get a 403 error if it decides you are an undesirable. It really is kind of a Clusterf***. I’d like to see a reboot of this blog on a different platform, because this one, frankly, just sucks.

  270. progress2conserve October 27, 2011 at 9:28 pm #

    “But if you want to get a response from JHK you’re going to ave to sign your name Jack Waddington”
    -buck stud-
    Wow, Buck, what a memory. I looked back at the archives and couldn’t remember stuff I had typed MYSELF, from a couple of months ago. Yet, you remembered JHK’s response to JW.
    This has been a cool run for me – about a year and a half posting on CFN, nearly every week.
    DAMN – I’ve learned a bunch of stuff, a lot of it about myself and my own attitudes. I’m gonna miss it, but nothing lasts forever, I guess.
    Turkle, maybe you’re right – it’s playing out.
    You have any other websites in mind that are sort of like this one.
    I haven’t been able to find one.
    I’ll keep fighting along here for a while, yet.
    Never give up ’till you have to.

  271. mika. October 27, 2011 at 9:55 pm #

    This calcification and ossification is true with regards to all religions, new and old. You can also include the multi-headed hydra religion of Capitalism/Fascism/Communism in this mix. All are belief systems meant to ensnare the vast majority of people in a form of feudalism.
    The construct was already in use in ancient Sumer and Egypt 5,000 years ago. A feudal construct Abraham and the tribe of Israel tried to escape from since their beginning.

  272. asoka. October 27, 2011 at 9:59 pm #

    Mika said:

    One other thing, Asoka: You seem to constantly confuse the behavior of individual culturalized muslims, and the malevolent behavior of institutional islam.

    Mika, “institutional Islam” does not exist: you cannot introduce me to it.
    Wherever you go you will only find individuals who have made faith decisions. Institutions are fictions, do not make faith decisions, and cannot be introduced and shake my hand.
    It is wrong to generalize about a religion and characterize its members as terrorists or violent. As Capt. Spaulding said, the majority of Muslims, want to live in peace, as do the majority of Christians.

  273. mika. October 27, 2011 at 11:22 pm #

    The Muslim Brotherhood is an institution. Sharia law is an institution. Imperial Islam is an institution. Islamic Fascism is an institution. Islamic Arab cultural memes are an institution. Whether you want to call it an institution, a political movement, a cultural/religious meme, or whatever, it is irrelevant semantics. At the center of it all, is Islamic scripture.
    Btw, I’ve noticed that you have not responded in regards the historical fact concerning the jihadi mass burning of books from the great Alexandria library and other great libraries elsewhere, during their invasion of North Africa and the Middle East. You haven’t responded to that fact, because that fact is indisputable. Yet, regardless of your knowledge of this fact, you will continue with your jihadi propaganda lies. I know that you will continue with your jihadi propaganda lies, because you are a dishonest malicious joker.

  274. asoka. October 27, 2011 at 11:38 pm #

    you will continue with your jihadi propaganda lies. I know that you will continue with your jihadi propaganda lies, because you are a dishonest malicious joker.

    Since you KNOW so much and you know I am a “dishonest malicious joker,” our dialog is over.
    But one thing I will not let slide is your slanderous comment regarding scripture:

    At the center of it all, is Islamic scripture.

    As a joker, I respectfully disagree.
    At the center of it all, are FALSE INTERPRETATIONS BY FANATICS of Islamic scripture.
    Islam is a religion of peace.

  275. Bustin J October 27, 2011 at 11:55 pm #

    Is it just me, or does it smell like tear gas outside?

  276. Bustin J October 28, 2011 at 12:23 am #

    City of Oakland, general strike Nov. 2

  277. asoka. October 28, 2011 at 12:52 am #

    Alabama passes anti-illegal immigration law.
    Immigrants leave fields.
    We desperately need BOTH illegal and legal immigrants.
    They work hard, they have family values, and obey the laws because any unnecessary attention could result in their being deported.

  278. ak October 28, 2011 at 1:00 am #

    How does tear gas smell like?

  279. asoka. October 28, 2011 at 1:20 am #

    ak, if there is a general strike who would tear gas be used against? A general strike is when people stay home and do not go to work. The police would have no one to incite. The police would be denied going apeshit violent against peaceful demonstrators.
    general strike:
    Widespread withdrawal of labor from most or all industries, aimed at extracting concessions by paralyzing the economy of a country.
    P.S. I do not believe there will be a general strike on Nov. 2, nor will there be any tear gas used by police. The police have learned that violent suppression only increases the size of the movement.

  280. turkle October 28, 2011 at 3:51 am #

    Yeah, like let’s judge all modern day Muslims by what happened in the 1300’s, just like we should condemn modern Christians for the the Crusades, the Inquisition, the 30 Years War, burning at the stake of 1000’s of women for being “witches”, the excommunication of Gallileo, endless persecution of “non-believers”, …
    Then we have the colonialist period, where nearly all of the Muslim countries were ruled by external force of the benevolent, meek Christian nations. The British had what, three wars in Afghanistan? (who is counting anyways?)
    I mean, seriously, shall we have a “whose religion is most violent and intolerant throughout history” contest. I think Christianity might actually come out on top.

  281. trippticket October 28, 2011 at 5:05 am #

    Wood chips are definitely high-carbon biomass. I’m a bit reluctant to promote them, as I have so little experience with them. I’ve used them effectively in larger forested systems, but in the veggie garden not at all. Some people will say that piling carbon mulches around plants will deplete nitrogen levels, which is true, to a point, but only because the necessary carbon was available to utilize the existing nitrogen productively (ideal C:N ~25:1). As more nitrogen becomes available, either naturally or through accelarated permaculture methods, the carbon will be there as a bank, ready to give you the most benefit from that nitrogen. But it certainly doesn’t hurt anything to have that carbon bank lying around on the surface, regardless of what some might say. Quite the contrary. I’ve been doing it for years with very good results.
    In my humble opinion, folks like DR Lunsford can toot their techno-trumpets till they are blue in the face. From an ecological systems perspective, humans are circling the drain, and the only substantial course of action remaining to us is to go (RUN) back to the planet’s original wealth: that is, rebuild the forests, topsoil, mineral and water cycles. Turning trees into paper money was probably the dumbest idea we’ve ever come up with. And any idea that suggests we can keep on doing what we’re doing is highly suspect. Again, in my humble opinion.

  282. trippticket October 28, 2011 at 5:16 am #

    I’ve been exchanging paper currency for trees, mushrooms, seeds, and agricultural/forest waste biomass (if nothing else the paper expense of the gasoline to go get it) for years now. Just this week I’ve rescued two full-sized pickup loads of pecan shells, and another of composted cotton gin trash, from the waste stream and added them to my gardens. And I’d like to get another load of gin trash before I call it a week.
    I wish you could share the smug little smile on my face as I drive past people in fancy cars talking on their cell phones, completely oblivious to the fact that I am carting natural capital back to my house by the truckload. Knowing that their “wealth” has a finite shelf life, and that mine is not only conserved but pro-creative, gives me endless pleasure…

  283. trippticket October 28, 2011 at 5:43 am #

    Just about time to start accepting the morons’ free gifts of fertility by the bagful, set so graciously on the curb every fall, too!
    No, really, you shouldn’t have…Oh, alright, I accept;)

  284. trippticket October 28, 2011 at 6:44 am #

    A bit of a rant against the tom-foolery of breast cancer awareness for you at Small Batch this week. Couldn’t help myself. So ridiculous.

  285. trippticket October 28, 2011 at 7:32 am #

    “Maybe we’d be better off if first generation immigrants were forced to be bankers –
    at minimum wage.
    Then, farm workers could earn $1000/hour – minimum – plus health care, company car, and stock options.”
    I sure like this idea! And to think we do it almost for free, like it’s rewarding in its own right or something.
    On the mushroom question, I order my spawn from Field and Forest up in Wisconsin, and mostly have success stories with it. A couple of new species are being tested currently; I’ll report on them as I can. If you find a more local supply house let me know. I’m always looking to cut food miles.

  286. messianicdruid October 28, 2011 at 7:49 am #

    “It is wrong to generalize about a religion and characterize its members as terrorists or violent.”
    That little tidbit is going to bite you in the arse.

  287. messianicdruid October 28, 2011 at 7:55 am #

    “The police have learned that violent suppression only increases the size of the movement.”
    You are really racking them up this morning.

  288. Pucker October 28, 2011 at 8:05 am #

    Turkle wrote: ” That’s not correct. There’s been 35 or so people brought up on charges just this year.”
    I hope that you’re not referring to the SEC’s slap-on-the-wrist given to Goldman Sachs?
    We need to see meaningful punishment of these Wall Street crooks and the Obama criminal clique proportionate to the plastic bullet in the face suffered by the U.S. veteran at the OWS protest.

  289. boris1917 October 28, 2011 at 9:26 am #


  290. boris1917 October 28, 2011 at 9:27 am #


  291. Confusionism October 28, 2011 at 9:36 am #

    “The food crisis that has made front page news around the world in the last couple years is precipitated by primarily two causes: the high cost of fossil fuels, which is key to all modern agricultural systems, and the diversion of food crops to make bio-fuel.”
    You forgot about Wall Street speculators driving up and manipulating the prices on commodities. This has an enormous impact on food prices.

  292. Confusionism October 28, 2011 at 9:38 am #

    “That’s no to say I support that religion in particular. I think it is just as nonsensical as the all the other made-up, hocus pocus religions out there.”
    Hocus-pocus, made-up religions. Is there any other kind?

  293. charliefoxtrot October 28, 2011 at 9:47 am #

    …not trying to get all “Q” on you, but that was a tear gas cannister, which as near as i could tell was fired practically point blank…the oakland pigs denied using rubber bullets

  294. ozone October 28, 2011 at 10:14 am #

    Yes (tear gas canister), and then one of the cowardly assholes backed up a bit and tossed a flash-bang grenade into the center of the group that gathered to aid the injured guy. The pictures are a bit too clear.
    This is what I mean when I say that the sadistic members of the police dept. are painting targets on the backs of their fellow officers. These bad apples will typify the whole barrel as the brutality spreads.

  295. dale October 28, 2011 at 10:16 am #

    WSJ had a story once entitled ‘Immigrants will save Social Security’.
    …and we all know that the WSJ and Rupert M. are bastions of credibility and truthtelling when it comes to the intrests of the working and middle classes.
    I’m sure there is some truth to the story…..if SS remains anything but a empty program by the time the R’s are done with it.
    Having worked in the development industry for years I saw too many workers who had their jobs taken from them – in mass – by Hispanic emmigrants from the 1970s up through 2007. Many more who worked for less wages than they received 15 years earlier.
    Whatever your beliefs about the need for ‘equality for everyone’, the attitudes of those who endorse such thinking would certainly change if it was them or theirs who were under such pressure…..and that is no prediction.

  296. ront October 28, 2011 at 10:20 am #

    “You forgot about Wall Street speculators driving up and manipulating the prices on commodities. This has an enormous impact on food prices.”
    I was listening to a talk by Chris Hedges (bookstore in Portland, OR in 12/’10) in which he said that there was a time that the punishment for speculating was hanging. Personally, he said, he opposed the death penalty, but maybe a bit of choking might be acceptable and make a point.
    The Wall Street banksters are addicted to their unethical games. They know it, but are helpless in their addiction so they ignore it and do everything they can to prevent being reminded. Maybe OWS should change into Wake Up Wall St,, Wall Street Intervention, or to steal from my favorite sign at the Pre-Iraq war demonstration: Whoa Cowboy!

  297. ozone October 28, 2011 at 10:23 am #

    Good rant, Tripp! ;o)
    When people refuse to look at the hidden energy costs in EVERYTHING, it points to the ultimate in denial.

  298. ozone October 28, 2011 at 10:25 am #

    (Not to mention the attendant poisons that are spewed in the creation of this crap-pile of “goods”.)

  299. dale October 28, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    You make some good points, much of which I agree with, demonstrating just how complex problems like this can be.
    1. Yes, Regarding PO, in the grand scheme of things twenty years one way or the other might not mean much. However, in terms of the technological response to the problem it could be the difference between ‘catastrophe’ and ‘who cares?’ I believe that is why the doomer crowd always has to insist it is ‘just over the horizon’, – where it has been for about 150 years now.
    2. It’s also true that I speak from the perspective of western-middle class-educated etc. None of us can really help but be a reflection of our environment to some degree. However, I think it’s a mistake to conflate problems like PO with many other issues. IMO, the real problem is over population, and technology + resources are increasingly having trouble keeping up with that factor. So….if the doomers are right (and they might be) it will likely be for the wrong reasons.
    We probably share a similar evaluation of our (humankind’s) particular dilemma at this point in history. Two ways we may differ however; as I get older I become less certain mankind was intended to be anything but a short-term experiment. We are still way too much like animals for our own good….or survival. Also, as a keen student of history I’m aware that great changes occur more often than we like to imagine, and it does appear to me we are approaching such a tipping point.

  300. ront October 28, 2011 at 10:37 am #

    For those who approach any religion taking it to be hocus-pocus, it surely will meet one’s expectations. For those who seek truth sincerely no matter where it may lead them (beyond the conventional or material), and willingly traverse a path that a religion merely points to, the core principles of that creed can lead one out of the hocus-pocus of out one’s delusions.
    The religious creed, like a map, is less useful once you get to the town.

  301. Confusionism October 28, 2011 at 11:02 am #

    Jesus (no pun intended), could you be any more obtuse. What is this “truth” you speak/write of? Is this some Kant-esque truth? I would love to find this truth, in all seriousness, if I could just figure out what the fuck you are referring to. It’s maddening.

  302. charliefoxtrot October 28, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    what i have is a three year-old pile of mixed wood chips…last year, i started turning them into the clay/rock garden; in one season it turned into almost soil…do you recommend not turning the garden at all? or just mulching heavily & then not tilling after that, or what…?

  303. messianicdruid October 28, 2011 at 12:06 pm #

    Here is what the “police” are learning:
    “North Carolina Police Warned To Put Their Personal Property Into Someone Else’s Name !”
    “It appears that a North Carolina court has ruled that the “police” are actually working for private entities (private companies) and are not associated with The State of North Carolina. This ruling conforms to ideas I’ve advanced on this blog and on my radio show for several years.
    Because the purported “police officers” are working for private companies, they are not entitled to official immunity. Thus, police officers are being warned to put all of their personal property into someone else’s name since it might otherwise be lost in the event that a “police officer” is sued for assault or some other kind of lawbreaking.”

  304. ront October 28, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    “I would love to find this truth, in all seriousness, if I could just figure out what the fuck you are referring to.”
    That would be “who you (we) really are.” Which inevitably brings in accounting for “who you think you are.” One problem that could be a deal breaker is: it can’t be figured out, mysteriously it cannot grasped intellectually–maybe just a taste, a glimpse or a whiff at best. Beware, even a whiff could be enough to get you hooked on your search.

  305. wagelaborer October 28, 2011 at 12:26 pm #

    I’m surprised that JHK would make snide comments on the American propensity for obesity. It seems clear to me that the cause of so much obesity is US subidies for corn and cars.
    Americans, of course, are taught to blame the individual, since we are all rugged individuals, making our way through life single-handedly with no help from our communities.
    So I frequently get into arguments with people at work, who scorn the obese as weak-willed and refuse to consider that public policy has an effect on private behavior. But I expect more from this site.
    Look at old movies or pictures of your own family. See any obese people before Earl Butz changed the agricultural policies back in the 70s?
    Doesn’t the destruction of public transportation, the massive highway subsidy program and the McMansion surburan housing bubble have anything to do with obesity?

  306. wagelaborer October 28, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

    Hey, Tripp! I went to your blog. Good rant.
    Here’s my favorite on that subject-

  307. IxNoMor October 28, 2011 at 12:32 pm #

    “I’ve been exchanging paper currency”
    You go, girl (I know, but it sounds better that way)!
    I went to the gov web site for GDP stats, and all I can say, is that sh!t has to be cooked, just liek all the accountants are cooking corporate financial statements. Apparently, the GDP in 2009, 2010, and this year, are way higher than the GDP was in 2006 (the bubble peak). So everything is up – the stock market, the 10 year interest rate, gold/silver, and euro/pound exchange rates. Total *MAJIK* (maybe, more like *inflation*)!!!
    I’ve been out of paper as much as possible, but it’s hard to get completely out (have to pay exorbitant taxes every year with paper). Regardless of how insane my friends/family think I am/have been for the the past 20 years, they all seem to be getting a glimpse of the picture, now – which to me is a miracle, but about 14 years too late…
    Maybe it’s just me, but I like my 5’6″ girls to weigh in around 150lbs or more. Those anorexic speed addicts look WAY scary to me (especially when they have those silicon implants and “no-expression” facelifts)…
    I also wonder if these bankster/brokerage houses queue up buy/sell requests from their customers, and then run *millisecond* calculations on those stats to determine what to swap/short/long, then place their own requests *FIRST*, and then place their customer requests afterwards (skimmin’ to the *TREME*). Volume trading works wonders, but it only goes *so far*. (I’m feeling all *Q*-zee, CNBC since 7am this morning (9:23am now)…

  308. wagelaborer October 28, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    I still have some wood chips from the hurricane 2 years ago.
    Last spring I talked about planting potatoes, because I decided that this would be the year that the shit would hit the fan.
    I bought 2 bags of potatoes, 50 lbs each.
    I spent a lot of time digging a new potato patch, planted some of the red ones and then we got 20 inches of rain in 4 days. Then I fell and injured my ankle and was unable to walk for 4 weeks, then my dog got sick and then it was too damn hot to dig anything.
    Anyway, at some point I planted a few of the white ones, and then it went to weeds.
    A couple of months ago, I noticed that there were still some potatoes alive in those sacks. Unbelievable. I had to give them a chance, so I planted them, and threw wood chips on top of them.
    The plants are still going strong.
    And I got more white potatoes than red ones, even though they were neglected, because I like red potatoes more.
    So I’m guessing that if you want to survive, plant white potatoes. And it’s OK to throw wood chips on them.
    Also, the wood chips help me figure out where to dig, because otherwise it’s just a mess out there.

  309. wagelaborer October 28, 2011 at 12:53 pm #

    How can people say that we haven’t hit peak oil yet?
    There was a time when you could strike oil while shooting at some food (I saw it on TV).
    There were oil wells where I grew up in LA, and my Mom worked for a local oil company.
    Now they’re out drilling mile deep wells in the Gulf, and drilling in the tundra in Alaska, and dredging up tar sands in Canada.
    We’ve invaded Iraq and bombed Libya and sold our souls to Saudi Arabia and threatened Iran.
    But nothing has changed????
    We’re like people rooting through the ashtrays and gutters for butts, and brawling with our fellow street people for the last ones.

  310. trippticket October 28, 2011 at 12:56 pm #

    CF, I recommend that people stop cultivating permanently, garden, farm, all of it, ONCE THEY HAVE THEIR BEDS ESTABLISHED. Shovel-building my intensive mounds is paramount to cultivation, but I will never turn them again. It does make growing some crops more difficult, but the answer to that question is more along the lines of not growing those crops that making concessions on our tillage policy. For what it’s worth, this is what I’ve come to.

  311. wagelaborer October 28, 2011 at 1:03 pm #

    Whoa, Tripp. Now I’m all interested!
    How do you know this about Ozone? I know you met Netflix, or whatever her name was, but I didn’t know you met Ozone.

  312. trippticket October 28, 2011 at 1:05 pm #

    Thanks for the props, Wage!
    Nice post on ag policy too. I might just add that the mineral density in our topsoil/food has steadily decreased over the decades of industrial production, causing people to need to eat more calories in order to attain the minerals their bodies require. Of course, that’s really just a product of wrong-headed ag policy, isn’t it?
    Which is all just a product of energetic flows, and probably unavoidable. Too much energy is like a cancer, and it seems to be destroying America. That’s why my blog subtitle is “permaculture and the silver lining of energy descent.”;)

  313. wagelaborer October 28, 2011 at 1:05 pm #

    And you too?

  314. trippticket October 28, 2011 at 1:06 pm #

    That was just me being funny about Ozone. I haven’t met him…more’s the pity.

  315. mika. October 28, 2011 at 1:08 pm #

    See my comment at:
    October 26, 2011 11:26 AM

  316. wagelaborer October 28, 2011 at 1:11 pm #

    Thanks, Tripp.
    Our ag policy does more than produce more food than Americans can possibly eat.
    It leads to water pollution, topsoil destruction, aquifer depletion, wildlife habitat destruction, the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico, peasants thrown off their land in third world countries (and the farmers thrown off their land here in the US in the 80s and 90s).
    It leads to the horrible cruelty of factory farms, and cruel industrial slaughter of animals.
    I’m against it.

  317. charliefoxtrot October 28, 2011 at 1:23 pm #

    duly noted…be aware i might be asking for further advice on the subject as seasons progress…one thing i saw on pbs has me interested in cottonseed: it s said to be great fodder for dairy cows in particular; and livestock in general bc of a high protein content- wouldn t it also be good as a mulch or souil builder as well? IYHO? ^shredded cottonseed hulls from oil production, that is…

  318. charliefoxtrot October 28, 2011 at 1:26 pm #

    hmmm bit of a slip there: soul/soil…

  319. wagelaborer October 28, 2011 at 2:10 pm #

    My Marine sniper co-worker bragged about this practice.
    What he used to do was wound one “bad guy” (as Americans refer to their victims), and when the guy screamed for help, and his friends came to help him, he would kill them all.
    I’m guessing the cop was following this practice.

  320. wagelaborer October 28, 2011 at 2:12 pm #

    Hey, prog, glad you missed me.
    It’s more that I have been outside a lot lately.
    Like you, I prefer the fall temperatures.
    That’s why I suck as a gardener. I don’t like being outside during the actual growing season.

  321. IxNoMor October 28, 2011 at 2:42 pm #

    “We’re like people rooting through the ashtrays and gutters for butts, and brawling with our fellow street people for the last ones.”
    I used to go through my Drum butts, and mix it 50/50 with new tobacco. No longer – I smoke the cigs beyond butts to total ash…
    However, I gave you credit for the 2 links I poasted, concerning the Libya economy, and …
    It all becomes pointless… New point? *RIGHT*.
    CO2 emissions into the atmosphere are still *EXPONENTIAL* – not linear, or *REDUCING*. Put the tin foil cap on *NOW*.

  322. IxNoMor October 28, 2011 at 2:47 pm #

    OMFFFG!!! I ain’ gunna rototill no mo!!!
    “people stop cultivating permanently”
    2 years so far, I hope it works out!!!

  323. wagelaborer October 28, 2011 at 2:59 pm #

    Yeah, well, we’re smoking the planet to ash.

  324. IxNoMor October 28, 2011 at 3:00 pm #

    “I might just add that the mineral density in our topsoil/food has steadily decreased over the decades of industrial production”
    I believe that was called *CLEARCUTTING*/Animal grazing for 3-5+ years.
    Soil leaching, concreting, riverbed *fuxoring*… Simple concept – they’re still *CLEARCUTTING* everything/amazon/etc…
    Where is the CO2 reclamation? The oceans (which are so acidic from CO2, that the reefs are dieing/dead)??? I’ll tell you where it is – *DEEP SPACE*/the vacuum… It might be 200 years before we have the 0.1% pressure atmosphere (ALA Mars) – more likely *SOONER*…

  325. IxNoMor October 28, 2011 at 3:40 pm #

    who was that jackass, claiming we are nothing but 2nd rate loozerz, arguing for the rest of the week (monday poast?)…
    *LIARS* ate him!!!
    We live the lie. You live the lie, he lives the lie. Hop into that 2 ton death coffin, and *cruise*… We are the liars, living the lie…
    What have *you* done lately, other than *live the lie*?

  326. trippticket October 28, 2011 at 3:47 pm #

    “”people stop cultivating permanently”
    2 years so far, I hope it works out!!!”
    It has for Mother Nature for a billion or so years of life on the landmasses. Enough of a model for me.

  327. trippticket October 28, 2011 at 3:55 pm #

    Wage and CF, I’m trying to respond to you but the server don’t like me…

  328. trippticket October 28, 2011 at 3:56 pm #

    Well of course worthless prattle goes right through!

  329. Mike Hunt October 28, 2011 at 5:55 pm #

    I can’t help it. Every time I hear James crying “Jet Lag” my brain translates “raging red wine hangover”.
    Mike Hunt

  330. bubbleheadMarc October 28, 2011 at 7:19 pm #

    Thanks for the honorable mention yesterday of which I was informed by another disappeared person “Lewis Lucan Books”. I still read Jim’s posts but am bogged down working 55 hours per week and don’t own a laptop with a wireless connection so I can’t post from the barber shop.
    I also had a chest cold two weeks ago and a tooth extraction cum vicodin fog this past week so I haven’t been all there mentally at least.
    At the barbershop we’ve been discussing the OWSers including the ones here in Cleveland. One guy, a retired army sergeant getting a flattop, stupidly described the OWSers as “the hippies are marching again.” I let this comment pass without comment but asked others in this predominantly blue collar neighborhood, Westpark in Cleveland proper, what they thought about “sarge”. To a man they all thought that was a brain dead double dipper feasting at the public trough with combined military and civil service pensions. In other words, the OWSers are not “hippies”.
    I especially also liked Jim’s delayed post from Sweden this week. But when will Jim finally see the light on “algae secretions?” Tune in next week for an update on the future of technological grandiosity.

  331. bubbleheadMarc October 28, 2011 at 7:41 pm #

    P.S. to the above:
    Just read “We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism” by John Derbyshire, Three Rivers Press. Most highly recoommended. The chapter on education entitled “Yale or Jail” has to be the single most impressive analysis of our ridiculous educational system in this country ever written by anyone that I am aware of. This English immigrant, a contributor to the National Review, leaves no stone unturned revealing the self deluding social climbing at the heart of our vocational and social sorting mechanism called “school”. Am currently engrossed in “Shop Class as Soulcraft” which does much the same thing although to less devastating effect. This also brings to mind recent attention in the media to the plight of grotesquely debt burdened recent college graduates forced to move back in with their parents in order to economize especially considering the hopeless job market in most locales.

  332. progress2conserve October 28, 2011 at 10:35 pm #

    “Thanks for the honorable mention yesterday of which I was informed by another disappeared person “Lewis Lucan Books”. I still read Jim’s posts…”
    -the resident submariner-
    Good to hear from you, man! I’m glad LLB flagged my post to your attention, too. Hey, Lewis!
    I’m glad to hear that you have been working and busy and too short of time to post to CFN. Sorry about the tooth, though. But, I’m very glad you are not among the “Voyage of the BANNED.”
    I’ve got a theory – – that I’m about to struggle to put into words – –
    But I think there are a lot of really good thinkers in the US – many of whom are pretty good writers.
    But good writers and thinkers tend to be -ever so slightly- introspective, and perhaps, a little thin-skinned.
    So they tend to take criticism of their beliefs – as personal criticism. And when we get to the modern Tower of Babel that is the internet – – they internalize criticism some from anonymous mental-midgets and withdraw from the fight of ideas.
    Or else they get to random internet/website filter fluctuations – and it only takes a few bannings and 403 blockings – to drive them away for good. Which is too bad.
    REALLY – calling it “to bad” doesn’t do it justice –
    It’s a crushing loss to the flow of ideas.
    Because many of the really good writers and CFN thinkers seem to have left us – at least temporarily.
    (Mostly due to JHK’s “thought-destroying-spam-filter-from-Hell” that was deployed about a month ago.
    I’m starting to ramble. I’m stopping for now.
    But there is power in posting ideas to a website like this. And there is power in perfecting your ideas against public scrutiny..
    Now, if JHK and his webguy would just

  333. anti soak October 28, 2011 at 11:11 pm #

    Dale….How can belief be removed from the voodoo ‘science’ of economics?

  334. anti soak October 28, 2011 at 11:18 pm #

    nope…………this is not ZZZ / OEO

  335. anti soak October 28, 2011 at 11:19 pm #

    Colleges are starting to teach ‘recycling’ they call it Resource Recovery..
    I didnt know prior to WW2 it was mandated.

  336. wagelaborer October 29, 2011 at 1:10 am #

    Yep, we’re all that and more. Don’t forget that Florida and Georgia were used as penal colonies.
    When my grandmother emigrated here, her father was so upset that he told her he wouldn’t come to the dock to see her off. But she looked off the ship as they set sail, and she saw him standing at the dock, with tears streaming down his face.
    She never saw him again.

  337. wagelaborer October 29, 2011 at 1:27 am #

    “She says the American Female Beauty gene petered out around 1983, modeling agencies hardly even bother scouting in the U.S. anymore. Scandinavians and Africans are about the only people left on Earth who have cheekbones.”
    Just when you thought sweeping generalizations couldn’t get any worse! Seriously? The “American Female Beauty gene”?
    300,000,000 million wildly genetically diverse people, added to with millions every year, and someone feels qualified to dismiss them all?
    Guess so.

  338. wagelaborer October 29, 2011 at 1:40 am #

    Whoops! 300 million, not 300,000,000 million.
    But still!

  339. Bustin J October 29, 2011 at 1:50 am #

    Paging Welles, come in Welles.
    The situation with the Belu Monte dam is Trip’s case-in-point: we are, as a people, as a society, complicit in these kinds of faustian bargains:

    Persistent opposition by environmental and indigenous groups… failed to stop the $11 billion project, which will produce electricity for big cities like São Paulo while flooding about 200 square miles of the Xingu River basin.

    Searchterm: Belu monte
    The global economy is wrecking the global ecosystem.
    It seems to me that the basic moral calculus is, the more involvement, profit, or sustenance you derive from the economy, the more responsible you are for the effects of the economy.
    If America had any brains it would send the army to defend the Amazon. But it doesn’t. We are a headless carcass laden with corrupt cronies like buzzing flies. You can’t commit treason against a corpse.
    Whole branches of the government are filled with industry lobbyists and former executives from the industries they are assigned to regulate!
    What is stopping everyone, exactly, from refusing to pay taxes en masse? Stop buying shit from China. Stop participating in the “global” economy?
    Same old song and dance: the media, the hypnotic media, and of course, the deep, bred-in conditioning of all those years of exposure.

    Waving bows and arrows and dressed in war paint, hundreds of members of indigenous communities in the Brazilian Amazon invaded the construction site of the Belo Monte hydroelectric dam on Thursday.

    I don’t think modern people really “live” in the sense that they live for something. They are constantly on the go, but strangely static. It is the “shape” of our universe that we don’t notice. Its shape is a stage, except that is not reality. Reality is immediate. And Americans are far, far physically and psychically from, well, anything else.
    To supply us with “this fabulous lifestyle of cellphones and cars”- we don’t see what is going on in the dark places of the world.
    Who is going to stop them?
    Who is going to physically go to the deep Amazon, and defend these peaceful people, armed with face paint and bows and arrows?
    the UN??

  340. asoka. October 29, 2011 at 3:32 am #

    ront, don’t let your critics get you down.
    Your posts make perfect sense to me and I enjoy them.
    What you are dealing with on CFN are posters who are by and large materialists interested in gold and silver, guns and ammo, and their own physical survival.
    They think of themselves as “realists” without really knowing what reality is or who they really are. Hint: TAT TVAM ASI.
    They often consider themselves to be “scientific” but they are mostly rooted in a classical Newtonian worldview where “physics” is king. They live in a world of causal relations and cannot explain things like non-local causation and quantum entanglement, much less spirituality.
    Your viewpoint is a valuable one on CFN and is most reassuring to me.

  341. progress2conserve October 29, 2011 at 8:33 am #

    “Who is going to physically go to the deep Amazon, and defend these peaceful people, armed with face paint and bows and arrows?”
    Nice post on a tragic topic, turk.
    And of course ALL of US in the “civilized” world are responsible for this. Most in the US are completely unaware of the damage being done in the third world – only to benefit those of us in the first world. I know about a lot of stuff – but I hadn’t heard about this one.
    Some of us hide behind the idea – – we’ll let anyone immigrate to the US – – so it excuses our bad behavior elsewhere –
    a very metaphysical and illogical defense

  342. budizwiser October 29, 2011 at 9:27 am #

    I love it – Asoka used the word “reality” in a post.
    Part of the Clusterfuck is indeed the new multi-fact, multi-reality world we now live in.
    Somehow, the market forces or the intrinsic value associated with objective journalism has gone missing. There are no public venues shared by those who seek to examine their experience and compare notes with those who harbor differing perspectives.
    How can their be meaningful discussion when no matter seems to be the truth?
    How is one to be analytical in the information age? How is it possible to argue for a position when “facts” are nothing more than managed opinions and ignorance is given equal weight with knowledge?
    It’s the cosmic irony of our civilization. Just when the Internet brings us infinite information, the knowledge needed to guide us forward is buried in the drudgery of analyzing and making sense of our complex institutions.
    In other words, since no one “knows” for sure what they are talking about, its doubtful their positions are worth any more or less than mine.

  343. Pucker October 29, 2011 at 9:48 am #

    Do you know what you do to “Pigs”?
    This little piggy went to market…
    This little piggy stayed home…
    This little piggy had roast beef…
    This little piggy shot a peacefully protesting veteran in the face…
    And this little pig gets some….

  344. progress2conserve October 29, 2011 at 10:10 am #

    That’s a compelling story, Wage:
    “..But she looked off the ship as they set sail, and she saw him standing at the dock, with tears streaming down his face.
    She never saw him again.”
    Multiply that by factors of millions – –
    I hate to think of all of the personal connections, intelligence, and family love – – that has broken away from other countries and emigrated into the US.
    Sure, US society benefited – in a material sense.
    Maybe that’s why we worship materialism so.
    Because we collectively gave up too many family connections.

  345. ront October 29, 2011 at 10:29 am #

    One’s beliefs and opinions matter little. All to often they lack integrity and honesty and support the illusions we play with. What one is matters. Ultimately it needs no defending. Having and doing, for me, is significant as it relates to being.
    Life is happening in me, not to me.
    Realism in most cases= realisn’t.

  346. Buck Stud October 29, 2011 at 11:06 am #

    I’m pretty sure the “American female beauty gene” hasn’t petered out. And the “high cheek bones” didn’t suddenly start receding since the year 1983. No, it’s more a matter of land whale blubber infringing upon and enveloping those skeletal promontories that once defined beauty in our American women like a purple mountain majesty rising from the dull dreariness of Kansas, USA.
    Obviously, it’s the fault of Earl Butz.

  347. progress2conserve October 29, 2011 at 11:54 am #

    “…skeletal promontories that once defined beauty in our American women like a purple mountain majesty…”
    -WOW, BuckStud – -Poet Much?-
    Speaking personally, I’ve never much cared for skeletal promontories. I’ve got the genes of a cave man – skinny women look malnourished to me.
    And I’ve posted before that this modern era of Large Fake Plastic Boobs – has completely screwed up the sexual mores and the mate selection process in the United States, as we find it today.
    Funny that’s not mentioned at the base of the Statue of Liberty:
    “Give us your tired poor masses, yearning to breath free – –
    And we will grant them Large Plastic Boobies.”
    Wonder if B*ob and B*obies is in the spam filter;
    Like George Carlin would have included T*ts?
    ‘Bout to find out.

  348. trippticket October 29, 2011 at 12:06 pm #

    Can I take a stab at this one?
    It’s my opinion, and also the opinion of others that I highly respect, that wisdom and information are two very different things. The constant bombardment of second-hand “information,” sound bites that have passed through at least one other filter before reaching our brains, are most likely the cause of more confusion than answers. I’m as guilty as some of spending too much time surfing the net, and therefore potentially subjecting myself to the trappings of the dominant culture, but when I’m there I’m mostly looking for people who think like me, people who approach a problem with a set of guidelines, principles, and ethics. Where they get those ethics matters, and I don’t care if the source is culturally acceptable or not – the GOP stance on the poor comes straight from the Satanic Bible, literally, and personally I don’t have much patience for that sort of “ethic.”
    I don’t care if they agree with my conclusions or not; if I can see that they are thinking independently of the cultural narrative, then they are of some interest to me. Usually lone wolf types like John Michael Greer, Dmitry Orlov, or Bill Mollison. They don’t all agree about the trajectory of the future, but I find value in each perspective, and attempt to assimilate the varying opinions into my own ecological calculus.
    Just as you no doubt do with people you respect.
    Anyway, I guess what I’m trying to say is that wisdom begets good judgement, but wisdom generally comes first-hand, and not through the dominant culture. Getting rid of the television was the best decision I think I’ve ever made. And I really only watched nature and sports programs, nothing too obviously pop culture-y. Defined I would say to avoid anything with advertising. Greer pointed out recently that the disdain for magic in our culture is ironic considering that the corporate-political-advertising complex is fully engaged in the use thereof to control and direct the desires of the populace. The “magician state” he called it.
    Just thought your inquiry was interesting and hope you don’t mind if I throw in my .02

  349. progress2conserve October 29, 2011 at 12:07 pm #

    “What one is matters. Ultimately it needs no defending.” -ront-
    That’s very New Agey, ront. And to some extent, there’s some truth in it.
    But what if “what one is,” is a complete creation of the modern culture of the American Capitalistic Hologram (tm Joe Bageant?)
    What if the Great Minds of those Hindu philosophers – only worked in the context of pre-modern India.
    Those same minds today desperately scheme to fit into the Hologram – make a lot of money – and emigrate the Heck out of India.
    Because there’s a lot of that going on.
    I’m out of here ’till late Sunday.

  350. Bustin J October 29, 2011 at 2:17 pm #

    Trip said, “rom an ecological systems perspective, humans are circling the drain, and the only substantial course of action remaining to us is to go (RUN) back to the planet’s original wealth: that is, rebuild the forests, topsoil, mineral and water cycles. ”
    asoka said, (Paraphrasing) “The weather is nice, everything will turn out OK”
    Reality: Forests can never be rebuilt. Neither can topsoil, mineral or water cycles. There is no alternative to conservation: preserving and protecting what is left. When human populations are deprived, they don’t become prudent; they become desperate and less likely to accept personal sacrifice.
    What is happening in the western Brazilian state of Para, Brazil? The current government of Brazil is driving to complete the circa-1975 plans for a massive dam authorized under the late military dictator. (Belo Monte dam)
    This Dam will:
    1. Inundate somewhere between 150-500 square kilometers of the most productive forests in the world;
    2. Release methane and carbon in enormous quantities
    3. Violently displace tribes of people whose cultural and economic reality lies outside of the “Global economy”
    4. Drive extinct an unknown number of species endemic to the area.
    5. 70% of the power is slated to go toward fulfilling the populations’ need for power to charge cellphones, and watch TV; 30% is slated for mineral mining and transformation (the minerals used to make your cellphone and car)

  351. asoka. October 29, 2011 at 3:15 pm #

    asoka said, (Paraphrasing) “The weather is nice, everything will turn out OK”

    Hi BustinJ
    Yes, the weather is very nice where I am. Sunny and 70 degrees. A very nice day to go out and play.
    Everything will turn out OK.
    My plan is to eventually die of old age and, speaking as a realist, I am certain my plan will succeed.
    Everything will, indeed, turn out OK.

  352. BeantownBill October 29, 2011 at 3:56 pm #

    Certainly, should cold fusion occur, much of our energy problem would be solved. However, I am sceptical. But I can tell you, I hope very much that this is real,
    My own personal experience in dealing with scientists made me arrive at the opinion that many of them are intellectual snobs with little patience for the layman.
    I was hopeful when Fleischmann (sp?) and Pons announced their results. But I was disappointed when their results were not duplicatable. Scientists pointed out some blatant errors and sloppiness in their experiment and I think that’s why their reputations were shattered, not because they were working in an area of fringe science; everyone who had a science education would have loved it to have been true (except those involved in the mainstream energy business), IMO.
    As far as your attitude to mainstream science by calling current theories of physics the result of drug-addled visions, well, I think you are being way too harsh. Multiverses, string theory, etc. do seem far out, but for science to progress, many hypotheses must be brought forward, even though ultimately most of them eventually will be discarded.
    The universe is a strange place, and who knows what weird theories will eventually accurately describe it?

  353. rippedthunder October 29, 2011 at 4:28 pm #

    Thank you for commenting.
    Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner.
    Return to the original entry.
    Subscribe to Blog.
    BITE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!

  354. rippedthunder October 29, 2011 at 4:33 pm #

    I’m lost in the OZONE again! What is this crap O3? Branches are fallin’ like crazy. You muz b gettin’ hammered up in da “High Country” .Don’t bother answerin’ . Your power and internet are probably out. Send a smoke signal if ya need supplies from down in the valley!

  355. ront October 29, 2011 at 4:57 pm #

    Pro/con says: “That’s very New Agey, ront. And to some extent, there’s some truth in it.”
    Some truth may be better than no truth.
    “But what if “what one is,” is a complete creation of the modern culture…”
    I do not think it is helpful to think in black/white terms about this. It may be more helpful and healing to recognize that we are all subject to subconscious programming to some extent. All in the same boat–brothers at sea in an ocean of ignorance and uncertainty.
    But hey, if you are honest enough to face yourself, see what idols you have identified with (no matter how fucked up), recognize the attitudes and values (no matter how self-centered) that foster your thinking and behavior, then you are half way to resolving the myriad conflicts within yourself and with the world around you. Everyone benefits from this pursuit.
    This pursuit (of lasting happiness) is inhibited by cynicism and giving a shit what others may say or think about your efforts.
    Cole Porter offered this on the subject:

  356. wagelaborer October 29, 2011 at 5:41 pm #

    America doesn’t defend the indigenous peoples of the world, Bustin. Where the hell did you come up with that idea?
    If you read John Perkins, Confessions of an Economic Hitman, you’ll see that it’s very possible that the dam project is a “foreign aid” scam, set up by the US to enrich US construction companies by loaning money to third world elites to build expensive infrastructure which must be paid off by the poor who have been displaced.
    As to who would go down there, the director of “Avator” did, as I recall.
    Most people who watched that movie, if they got the point at all, thought of it as something that happened on Earth in the past, like when the cowboys killed the Indians.
    But, of course, it continues. And the US military, if used at all, will be used to clear the natives away. Or to train the Brazilian troops who perform the dirty deed.

  357. wagelaborer October 29, 2011 at 5:46 pm #

    Well, Buck, I’m assuming you were being sarcastic in solidarity with me.
    But maybe you were being snarky. It’s hard to tell.
    Anyway, blaming Earl Butz is a way to personalize the final triumph of industrial agriculture in america.
    Earl Butz is probably dead, but the profits continue to flow to the giant landowners, Monsanto, Cargill, John Deere, Dow, and the rest.
    Of course I blame capitalism, not one man. What kind of Marxist do you think I am?
    And the women whose cheekbones are lost in facial fat are collateral damage, like deformed Fallujah fetuses.
    It’s all bad.

  358. budizwiser October 29, 2011 at 5:52 pm #

    All I was getting at is the lack of any shared set of fact or circumstance to argue for or against.
    In another life, I actually wrote “hard news” stories. And my training was such that I understood the important of objectivity in describing events.
    Now the sum totals of years and years of data collection and decades of experiential based knowledge are dismissed as “theory” or some undefined “tree hugging” ideology. No matter can be accepted to be “proven” or “true.”
    It appears the powerful among us prefer this arrangement. No other explanation would support the status of television programming and now the perverse use of the Internet in what is now supposedly “modern” civilization.”
    Some my own reasons for these anonymous ruminations are the result of the acrimony I’ve experienced between myself and former friends and neighbors when discussing Peak Oil or Peak Ponzi schemes.
    Clearly, deductive reasoning and thinking in a didactic manner is not something my former friends experience while listening to Rush.
    But I digress.

  359. wagelaborer October 29, 2011 at 5:58 pm #

    Where are you Ripped?
    It’s sunny here, but I hear that you Easterners are getting snow.
    So much for your basil.
    Hey, my husband bought 2 new tires, and I brought the old ones home for next year.

  360. wagelaborer October 29, 2011 at 6:11 pm #

    Yeah, I’ve seen those stories.
    For instance, Bustin was talking about Brazil’s destruction of the rainforest and its people for economic progress and growth.
    A balanced reporter would find someone for the dam, and someone who claimed that growth could happen in a better way.
    Interview a Green who would claim that the idea of growth on a finite planet is eventually suicidal, and we need to stop economic growth, and switch to sustainable living?
    Not gonna happen.

  361. bubbleheadMarc October 29, 2011 at 6:19 pm #

    So long as someone is only attacking your ideas that should be a spur to redouble one’s efforts to rebut their argument. But if you’ve revealed a good deal about yourself personally and they launch an ad hominem attack then that could knock some people for a loop and serve as a deterrent to further interaction. Nevertheless, if you consider that these are anonymous postings then how thin skinned do you have to be to go off the deep end over this nonsense?
    Many people who’ve posted here are indeed good thinkers and writers but at the same time this may be to no effect if what they are thinking has no real effect at the very least on thier own long term planning. Of course the ineffectual could have excellent long term plans so so much for that one perhaps as well.
    I eventually would like to become fairly isolated so at that time there would probably be more time for pursuits such as Cluster Fuck Nation.

  362. rippedthunder October 29, 2011 at 6:32 pm #

    Hello Wage, I am in the “Pioneer Valley” also known as the CT. River Valley. Where I am we have about 5″ of heavy wet snow, and he ain’t my brother! laugh if ya know the song! The trees still have about 50/75% leaves left and they aren’t laughin’. After all the storms/tornadoes/hurricanes this year I feel for my forest. The trees will get through it. They are survivors. The ice storm in ‘08 culled a lot of the dead wood. The weather seems to be bouncing from one extreme to the other.

  363. anti soak October 29, 2011 at 7:34 pm #

    See Elaine Supkis site for pix..a week ago and now

  364. myrtlemay October 29, 2011 at 9:57 pm #

    I love her blog site. Having lived up north for most of my life, I can truly say that getting this amount of snow this early in the year is absolutely outside of living memory (I’ve been around for a lot of years, btw.) People down here in North Carolina don’t understand what all the fuss is about. I try to tell them that, yes, the northern states always get more than their fair share of snow…just not this early! Haven’t contacted any of my remaining kin up their in them there parts, but I’m pretty sure they’re “freaking out”. You being on the left coast probably don’t understand us folks back east when we get hit with a blanket of snow…let alone in late…OCTOBER ???? Let’s just say I’m glad I retired to the South sooner rather than later. Kind of sucks in the sultry days of late July/August. Oh well, you have to play the cards you were dealt. IMO, of course.

  365. trippticket October 29, 2011 at 10:01 pm #

    “There is no alternative to conservation: preserving and protecting what is left. ”
    What’s left is not enough. You’d better hope that I am right and you are wrong, for the preservation of our species, though not of civilization. Civilization’s death seems to me a foregone conclusion. Dale and Bill would obviously disagree.

  366. trippticket October 29, 2011 at 10:07 pm #

    “Reality: Forests can never be rebuilt. Neither can topsoil, mineral or water cycles.”
    Not completely. Not within our lifetimes. But the work can be started. We’ve been selfish quite long enough I think.

  367. myrtlemay October 29, 2011 at 11:15 pm #

    “You’ve heard that worn out phrase – that you should act your age, let a lady confess, I wanta be baadd”. Credit goes to Miss Helen Kane. The number is on Youtube, “Let a Lady Confess I wanna be Bad”. Listen to it at your own discretion, fellow C’fners! Pretty naughty lyrics! Especially for the era.

  368. anti soak October 29, 2011 at 11:56 pm #

    Did you see her latest pix…Fall Colors then
    Blizzard a week later!
    Oct blizzard

  369. anti soak October 29, 2011 at 11:57 pm #

    ‘deformed Fallujah fetuses.’
    is that like 4 months gestation or newborn?

  370. anti soak October 30, 2011 at 12:00 am #

    I saw a startling pic online of
    Oh the changing climate and invading species.

  371. jim e October 30, 2011 at 1:30 am #

    deer tick
    I am the dotted line,
    And you fill me in with whatever you like.
    I am just going through the motions.
    I need an old fashioned potion.
    There has gotta be some old recipe.
    ‘Cuz I gotta get drunk,
    I gotta forget about somethings.

  372. benkin October 30, 2011 at 7:16 am #

    Yeah JHK! Let’s commend the Sweded for nothing more than their fortunate DNA that makes them 6 feet tall and 150 pounds, and look good in anything they wear. Maybe if you had such a physique you would be happy enough with yourself to not go around cursing and being angry like all the other Americans you deplore. Well guess what? When you walked past those most photogenic of Swedes they shook their heads and tsked and said of you the same thing you say about all the other Americans. LOL!

  373. charliefoxtrot October 30, 2011 at 10:48 am #


  374. charliefoxtrot October 30, 2011 at 10:56 am #

    ripped: i saw some footage of trees that had snapped under the early snow- here s hoping you and yours are ok…that goes for everyone else in this great Nation of “ours”- stay warm, clusterfuckers!

  375. charliefoxtrot October 30, 2011 at 11:12 am #

    hey bahston, hope y all are ok under that white stuff up there…about the cold fusion, doesn t it make sense to figure that if it does work, it will just ‘plug in’ to existing grid; whereby we, the people will still be (yes, puns intended) charged for the juice…? i mean, @ 40 mil a pop, it sure aint free…

  376. BeantownBill October 30, 2011 at 12:11 pm #

    When I woke up this morning, I saw my backyard was mostly uncovered, with some patches of 1/2″ snow. Just lucky I guess. Thanks for asking.
    I don’t know details about the fusion plant, so I can’t say for sure whether or not it would plug into the existing network, but I don’t see why it couldn’t.
    But I think what we’ll ultimately see if cold fusion is a reality is small power plants in every home or behind the house. Why have to pay extra for power generated at a central site and transmitted relatively long distances over electrical lines that belong to a 3rd party? I’d guess that cold fusion power plants will end up being something along the lines of a heat pump.

  377. Bustin J October 30, 2011 at 1:47 pm #

    Trip said, “”Reality: Forests can never be rebuilt. Neither can topsoil, mineral or water cycles.”
    Not completely. Not within our lifetimes. But the work can be started. We’ve been selfish quite long enough I think.”
    I don’t know if you’ve been following the latest research. It doesn’t sound like it. Complex systems don’t recover.
    I’d be inclined to forgive you your ignorance, but you’re not asoka, or Vlad. You pretend to have answers.

  378. charliefoxtrot October 30, 2011 at 1:53 pm #

    i think you re right on the face of it; i just hope most of us aren t priced right out of the market, so to speak…

  379. charliefoxtrot October 30, 2011 at 2:01 pm #

    bustin, not that i have much of a dog in this fight- @ least in so far as having a firm opinion about whether or not ‘we’ can fix up our fuck-ups, but i would like to know your sources…besides it seems ‘we’ sort of owe it to earth to at least TRY…

  380. trippticket October 30, 2011 at 2:19 pm #

    “I don’t know if you’ve been following the latest research. It doesn’t sound like it. Complex systems don’t recover.”
    Your hubris knows no bounds. Complex systems might not “recover” but they do evolve. Nature can take care of herself, and doesn’t depend on your “verdicts” for her fitness. For that matter neither do I.
    I’ve heard a lot of supposedly smart people talk about how we’re beyond the point of no return – too much carbon in the atmosphere, too few fish in the sea, too much lag time left till peak destruction, etc. Not arguments I’m ever going to buy, whether there’s any truth in them or not.
    But cower all you want.

  381. asoka. October 30, 2011 at 2:44 pm #

    I’d be inclined to forgive you your ignorance, but you’re not asoka, or Vlad. You pretend to have answers.
    You are not being very nice, BustinJ.
    If you want to call someone ignorant, at least address something of substance that instead of hurling ad hominem insults.
    I thought that the trend was from simple to complex, from simple one-celled organisms to much more complex organisms.
    In any event, whether or not humanity is present or becomes extinct makes not one whit of difference. Nature will continue to evolve just fine without us, toward more and more complexity.
    Have a nice day, BustinJ.

  382. jackieblue2u October 30, 2011 at 2:46 pm #

    Yes I feel ‘bad’ for you cuz it’s terrible to
    be freezing. Hurts the old bones.
    I have never been back east, and never been in
    humid summer weather. But yeah I guess that’s the price you pay for the other good seasons.
    Even the cold ocean breeze here on the west coast, hurts mine, ain’t so old bones but not getting any younger ! bones.
    I lived in Tahoe when younger. Snow. Wouldn’t go back. Brrr….
    Now we are having INDIAN SUMMER that I can’t remember since 82 or so.
    Very nice clear days.
    So hard to make a living here tho, and tons of people, driving around like fools.
    yes while it’s unusually cold earlier back east, we are on the other spectrum.
    I am going to enjoy the season and the weather.
    and drive as little as possible.
    Seasons Greetings to all, and the invisible ones also, our gone but not forgotten former posters.
    you know who you are.

  383. progress2conserve October 30, 2011 at 3:33 pm #

    “…..consider that these are anonymous postings then how thin skinned do you have to be to go off the deep end over this nonsense?”
    Your post is all true enough.
    The personal back and forth can certainly get pretty nasty – but it’s hard to picture someone who would stop writing and posting because of it.
    But I do think the “held for reviews” and especially the 403 “bannings” are causing some folks to quit posting altogether – maybe especially the more introspective or sensitive among the CF Nation, would tend to do this.
    Like they make a decision – consciously or subconsciously – that JHK doesn’t like them or their ideas.
    When really, it’s probably just fouled up blogging or anti-spam software.

  384. Bustin J October 30, 2011 at 3:35 pm #

    Asoka said, “You are not being very nice, BustinJ.”
    Asoka, you are blow-hard know-nothing. If you expect a hand-job from me, forget it.
    “I thought that the trend was from simple to complex, from simple one-celled organisms to much more complex organisms.”
    What “trend”? In a degrading environment, the thermodynamics result is sliding from complexity to simplicity, the opposite of what you claim
    e.g. a diversity of kinds of life and niches- to less and less diversity and niches… ask an ecologist. Any ecologist. Phone the nearest university. I’m serious. You people would profit from accepting the consensus of scientific community at the very least.
    The idea that we are not heading toward comprehensive and total systems collapse is contradicted by thousands of scientists.
    Trip needs to go review some recent journals. Science never stops evolving unlike some of us.

  385. Bustin J October 30, 2011 at 3:40 pm #

    Asoka said, “In any event, whether or not humanity is present or becomes extinct makes not one whit of difference. ”
    I know, this is what makes people of your religious persuasion dangerous. This statement is premise to everything. You live for nothing. You refuse responsibility and make an enemy of yourself. Why not just kill yourself? At least you’d stop consuming resources, and not have to pretend that your life is benign.

  386. Bustin J October 30, 2011 at 3:44 pm #

    Trip sed “Your hubris knows no bounds. Complex systems might not “recover” but they do evolve. Nature can take care of herself, and doesn’t depend on your “verdicts” for her fitness. ”
    No, Trip, nature depends on people for her equilibrium now. The idea that nature is an untouchable, eternal cycle is an argument totally demolished and no one ascribes to that in field of modern ecology.
    But believe what you want, apostate.
    “Not arguments I’m ever going to buy, whether there’s any truth in them or not.”
    Say what you have to say to keep your daughters from not crying themselves to sleep Trip, but when conversing with adults make the switch and stop talking nonsense.

  387. charliefoxtrot October 30, 2011 at 4:49 pm #

    nice, jackass, real nice how about follow your own advice, asshole: you talk about a man s kids and tell HIM to grow up?! chickenshit!! i don t have to know either of you to be offended by that, and i am not alone…pretend if you must, but exercise a little civility- please!

  388. wagelaborer October 30, 2011 at 8:56 pm #

    Maybe all of you are right. What we call “nature” now are the plants and animals and fish, etc., that we evolved with here in the Holocene period.
    It is beyond dispute that our species has destroyed much of what keeps this ecosystem stable, and driven many species to extinction.
    Obviously, that which has been destroyed cannot be redone.
    We need to immediately stop what we are doing, and turn to restoring that which is not yet totally destroyed.
    The ruling class seems to have no inclination to stop destroying our ecosystem. The rest of us have almost no power to stop them. Sure, we can individually change our lifestyles, to the extent possible in the framework of the system that we live in. Even Tripp has a big truck!
    But our species as a whole seems to be on the path to destruction, and we’re taking the place down with us.
    I’m watching a documentary on Bhutan, and their GHP – Gross Happiness Product. The documentary says that 10 years ago, they allowed TV into the country, and now kids are fighting, there is more violence, people found out that the marijuana which they had fed to their pigs for centuries could be smoked, they want the stuff they see on TV, and so on. The place is falling apart.
    Anyway, once we have changed the climate, new species will probably evolve. They always have.
    Remember that anaerobic bacteria created the atmosphere that we all depend upon, killing most of them in the process.
    Clearly, we’re no smarter than them, at least when it comes to self-survival.

  389. charliefoxtrot October 30, 2011 at 9:04 pm #

    tripp- just saw a bit of a show on PBS about a sort of resurgence of organic, sustainable farming in wash & oregon- promoting local consumption…one of the subjects is a husband & wife team who run a mill- they grow flax and peas and what she said was wheat from 5,000 yrs ago- i didn t catch the name but apparently kids with wheat allergies can handle it one thing the guy was talking about was that he s trying to rebuild the soil through what he grows…said clover grown alongside the grain suppresses weeds, plus (i already knew) puts nitrogen back…so there is hope that all is not lost y all have a good evening; f* the trolls of this world, & never let the bastards get you down

  390. Desert Dawg October 30, 2011 at 9:49 pm #

    The funny part of what you write regarding the obese tattooed sub-human people are the ones who are left’s constituency! YOU DESCRIBED OCCUPY WALL ST PERFECTLY!!

  391. charliefoxtrot October 30, 2011 at 10:20 pm #

    tell you what “dog”, as self- appointed troll detector, just go back to your masturbation to the likes of bill-o & patsy; shut the fuck up, and leave the adults to sort your mess out for you…in other words, move the fuck along to the porn sites you were looking for when you saw “clusterfuck”; we don t need or want you here, jackass

  392. charliefoxtrot October 30, 2011 at 10:32 pm #

    now see, that s an intelligent, thoughtful comment- and thanks wage, btw, i didn t know that about the bacteria… learn something new every day, right?

  393. IxNoMor October 30, 2011 at 10:39 pm #

    “Maybe all of you are right.”
    Who? Wha?!?
    “What we call “nature” now are the plants and animals and fish, etc., that we evolved with here in the Holocene period.”
    Oh, you mean the clearcut/monocultured GMO sh!t that x-pollinates with *everything else*? OK, sounds like a semi-fair assertion…
    As you *actually* asserted, we have to stop the CO2 production/pollution NOW. It must not only drop from exponential to linear growth – it must flatten out and start going down.
    Not gunna happen anytime soon (atmospheric CO2 depletion). I’ve seen estimates suggesting that if we stopped all clearcutting/CO2 burning *right now*, that it’ll take 25-50 more years before it plateaus/flattens out. That’s a very scary statistic (63.5% of all statistics are made up?!… hehe).
    I guess we have the “fortunate future” of reptiles/insects, that can survive the climate (until the atmosphere thins to 0.1% of current values – ala Mars). I’m not thinking Mars was an accident, myself (who knows?)…
    I say, we just blame exponential CO2 in the atmosphere, on volcanoes (just tell me which ones – St Helens? ROFL!) Oh, I heard something was erupting near Cicily recently? Oh yeah, must have been *HAWAII*…

  394. IxNoMor October 30, 2011 at 10:40 pm #

    “Survival of the Human Race – something you don’t give a shit about…”

  395. IxNoMor October 30, 2011 at 10:44 pm #

    Something I just noticed about this blog:
    Why, after a new poast, would it reload all old poasts? Wouldn’t it just keep that buffer, and tack the new/queued poasts onto the end? I mean, it’s time-based, so no one can poast earlier than the date of the most recent poast in the buffer…
    Zzz… I know, stupid, but “Things that make you go *HMM*”…

  396. jackieblue2u October 30, 2011 at 10:45 pm #

    Bustin J is NOT a jackass.

  397. IxNoMor October 30, 2011 at 10:54 pm #

    Bingo – peas and clover (the clover has to be infected by a certain nitrogen-fixing bacteria).
    I remember living in Illinois, ~1972-~1988, and they’d rotate crops from corn to soybeans every other year, while dumping sh!tloads of fertilizer and pesticide/herbicide on. Topsoil eroded in a major way every winter (except when the snow finally capped it). Who knows what that did to all the local streams/rivers/*fish*…
    And since then, I understand, around ~1995 or so, all those corn and soybeen crops were converted over to GMO mutant toxic strains (requiring much more fertilizer and pesticide/herbicide, after the first 2-3 years).
    No one cares, it’s too late! They will *NEVER* stop their current methodologies – ***NEVER***. Not pessimist – *pragmatist*.

  398. IxNoMor October 30, 2011 at 11:13 pm #

    “In any event, whether or not humanity is present or becomes extinct makes not one whit of difference. Nature will continue to evolve just fine without us, toward more and more complexity.”
    Sokah!!! You are livin’ in a dream world. We are destroying every last living thing on the planet – the atmosphere, the topsoil land mass, and the oceans. Buster-J is correct, methinks – it moves towards total simplicity, and a vanishing *poof*…
    Any news on Fukushima lately? just curious. Have fun digging out concrete/asphalt/iron tunnels/caves…

  399. ak October 30, 2011 at 11:19 pm #

    Ix: “… Not pessimist – *pragmatist*.”
    This reminded me of a joke from a former Russian coworker:
    Optimists are learning English.
    Pessimists are studying Mandarin.
    Realists are buying AK-47s
    BTW, got 403-banned again for trying to post a link about the new tattooed Barbie from Italy. I’ll retry Monday. See tokidoki.it

  400. IxNoMor October 30, 2011 at 11:22 pm #

    FWIW, ~4 days ago, the temp in my backyard dropped to 36’F (4-7am). The “news” (oldz) reported that it had hit 29’F in my town (concrete/asphalt airport they measure my city temp is less than 1 mile away). Nope, all my crops are still alive, no frost, no cold shock (apparently trees/wildlife keep things *moderately* “temped”)…
    Atmospheric thinning seems to be coming true in a major way – ice cold/snow already on the east coast? BOILING THE ATMOSPHERE OFF INTO DEEP SPACE!!! I’d cry, if’n I whuzn’t laughing. Irony is simply all of us living in denial…

  401. IxNoMor October 30, 2011 at 11:26 pm #

    “the new tattooed Barbie”
    LOL – Bill Maher had a great joke about that – labia piercing tear… As I already said, I find these (Nordic) anorexic crack-whore addicts nothing more than silicon implants, lacking facial expressions…

  402. BeantownBill October 31, 2011 at 12:06 am #

    Don’t believe everything you read in the papers, on the internet or see on tv or in videos.
    It makes no sense to me that a people growing or gathering marijuana for centuries would never learn to smoke it. Ya think that maybe over the past few thousand or so years the natives wouldn’t have ever burnt marijuana by accident or a fire burnt a patch of it so people would inhale the stuff and realize its benefits? How do you think people began eating cooked meat?

  403. charliefoxtrot October 31, 2011 at 12:35 am #

    it took four hooves to cross that line- sorry if you disagree…did you read his post, & if so do you somehow think what he said was called for? the way i see it any legit argument bustin might have had is wiped out- and i feel he owes an appology to tripp ticket, myself, and all of the civilized Nation …if we can t observe boundaries, what is the point of discussion?! think about it- if you wouldn t dare say it to my face; don t fucking type it!! with all due respect…

  404. BeantownBill October 31, 2011 at 12:36 am #

    It’s true that life on the Earth will cease to exist – in about 400 million years as the sun gets hotter and eventually boils off the oceans and the atmosphere. Until then, I wouldn’t worry about the biosphere. Man might become extinct and the biosphere may change radically, but it will still be there. The Earth is a sphere 8,000 miles thick, and man only inhabits the surface, like soap scum film on the surface of a shower curtain. The Earth is rich in organic compounds, and even if 99% of life dies out, the remaining can repopulate our world. At one point a few billion years ago, Earth had no life, then suddenly the 1st living cell (whatever that means) appeared and multiplied. Life even may have started that way in many places on Earth.

  405. charliefoxtrot October 31, 2011 at 12:40 am #

    chuckle! that s a good one, thanks…

  406. Vlad Krandz October 31, 2011 at 4:06 am #

    Testing, Testing. Bustin is a Jack Ass? A Donkey braying in tongues of brass? No! He merely has donkey ears giving him him the appearance of a jack ass.

  407. Vlad Krandz October 31, 2011 at 4:13 am #

    The Earth is hollow as taught in the novels of Edgar Rice Burroughs. The horizon curves upwards. Trippy. The Sun is in the center. I’ve been there and I’m trying to get back. Care to sponsor me?
    When hippies and gurus say “go within” this is what they really mean. It’s paradise down there. you’ll forget all about outer space once you get a look at down thar.

  408. IxNoMor October 31, 2011 at 5:21 am #

    “it took four hooves to cross that line- sorry if you disagree…did you read his post, & if so do you somehow think what he said was called for? the way i see it any legit argument bustin might have had is wiped out- and i feel he owes an appology to tripp ticket, myself, and all of the civilized Nation …if we can t observe boundaries, what is the point of discussion?! think about it- if you wouldn t dare say it to my face; don t fucking type it!! with all due respect…”
    You wrote it, ja f00k’n jack@$$:
    “nice, jackass, real nice how about follow your own advice, asshole: you talk about a man s kids and tell HIM to grow up?! chickenshit!! i don t have to know either of you to be offended by that, and i am not alone…pretend if you must, but exercise a little civility”
    Needless to say I did LOL – And Buster-J’s poast seemed fine to me, coherent, lacking (diatribe,) jackass, asshole and chickenshit!!!
    And here I was, gunna come to your rescue, figuring you had just one too many dips at the drink… Speaking of which, I could use another 8 or so dips!!!
    “The Earth is a sphere 8,000 miles thick”
    Yeah, and the atmosphere goes up a couple miles, and the oceans goes down a couple miles. Soap scum on the surface indeed – polluted, overheated, and *boiled off* mostly. There’s really no other place for it to go, than deep space…

  409. Freedom Guerrilla October 31, 2011 at 9:38 am #

    What’s up, motherfuckers? The problem with sucky Americans is that sucky Americans keep talking about how much we suck. Fuck baseball… We’ve got self-loathing as our new national past time.
    We forget that Americans are mongrels and came here because we couldn’t hack it in the old money world of Europe. But Sweden is an extraordinary place as a result of being the clearinghouse of a good portion of the world’s financial wealth for centuries. Modern Swedes had nothing to do with it just as modern Americans are simply living a mathematically driven conclusion.
    I think of nationalism or anti-nationalism as a complete waste of time and generally an indicator of some type of personal shortcoming. Ever meet somebody from Texas who is extremely proud of being from Texas? Congratulations…. Your parents fucked in Dallas. Not a major accomplishment.
    If somebody hates being American, stop being American. Fortunately this is something that can be changed almost overnight.
    I think we should start identifying ourselves as humans. Being human has nothing to do with economics, societal collapse, population bombs, or peak oil yet, ironically, I believe this identity may help eliminate all those problems. Adios, motherfuckers!
    Tommy out.

  410. ozone October 31, 2011 at 9:46 am #

    Mr. Orlov has [quite humbly] revised his prognostication of collapse mode. (Not “if”, but “how”.)
    It’s a lot worse than he originally envisioned. Unfortunately, it reinforces my innate paranoia that’s it’s all a nefarious plan and plot. This is how “They” want it; not a controlled and well-considered contraction, but sudden, irreversible collapse that will ensure lots of folks dying/getting killed. With all the extending and pretending going on, how can I “rationally” think that we aren’t being purposefully bullshitted? And to what ends; who benefits?
    Happy Halloween! (Have them cute little trick-or-treaters use the snow shovel you’ve conveniently left at the end of the walk to shovel their way to your doorstep. C’mon, they’re young, it won’t hurt ’em to work for that candy. 20 inches of wet snow will be easy labor if they work in shifts. ;o)

  411. ozone October 31, 2011 at 9:47 am #

    Oops! link:

  412. ozone October 31, 2011 at 10:03 am #

    “I think we should start identifying ourselves as humans. Being human has nothing to do with economics, societal collapse, population bombs, or peak oil yet, ironically, I believe this identity may help eliminate all those problems. Adios, motherfuckers!” -FG
    Yes, I is a yuman bean, but not totally escaped from my “nationality”, so maybe more yuman than some, less than others.
    I tend to like a lot of ‘Murkins; and many of them happen to be relations in point of fact!
    It’s too bad so many of them [us] have a non-functional bullshit/asshole detector (or ARE bullshit artists and assholes).
    Aye, there’s the rub…
    Hey, first frost last nite, woo-hoo! …On the TOP of 20″ of snow; how fucked-up izzat? ;o)

  413. Nasim November 9, 2011 at 10:12 am #

    “Being a person seemed enough for them, as though the human condition were an honorable state-of-being.”
    Being a person is certainly honourable but also agonizing and heroic. Thankfully after having survived it for so long it can now come to an end once we understand its origins.

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    * I am very cruel, more brutal tomorrow, the day after tomorrow is good, but the vast majority died in tomorrow night, meet again the day after tomorrow the sun.
    * greatest failure is to give up, the biggest enemy is himself, the biggest opponent is time.
    * 30% of people never believe you. Do not let your colleagues for your work, colleagues and let us work for our goals and work together, united in a common goal the following, we must unite you an entrepreneur than the bottom easier. So first of all to convince you agree with the common ideal, and not to let people work for you.
    * the 1980s to make money by courage, by the 1990s the relationship, and now must rely on the knowledge and ability!
    * In my opinion there are three kinds of people, businessmen: the creation of money; businessman: Dos and Don’ts. Entrepreneur: for social responsibility. Entrepreneurs should create an environment for the community. Entrepreneurs must have the spirit of innovation.
    * starting gun sounds, you do not have time to see how your opponent is running. Tomorrow is our only competitor.

    1, free of charge, is the world’s most expensive things.
    Indeed, free is a very attractive thing, but not the most obvious example is Ma is not Ali Baba, but Mr. Ma and his QQ. From 98 onwards, QQ began offering instant messaging accounts and free software downloads, and continuously improve their functions, until one day, that fat penguin said he should be charged, and we suddenly realized – you can not do without him , all around you are using QQ, from the police to ****, without exception. And now, Tencent has maintained this tradition, beginning each business is free, aimed at young people today love love fashion comparisons of the psychological, pocketed the tickets. When you see a few big gif graph K 4,5 can sell dollars, you really just can not help but admire Ma old fox.

    2, to assume that not a penny of your financial situation to do business.
    What is money? Not that you have enough to eat, and if that were the case, you might as well go to relief stations to receive urban minimum living reality. If you do web site is to make financing, prepared to killed his climb up that you deserve good, but you killed a bunch of brothers is wrong. Do not unrealistic expectations, practical work, people have harvested.

    3, take the time to learn the others failed.
    This was nothing to comment, I think, so you can see when someone flops, see a cold sweat, you’re far away from success. Today, the book reflects the success stories and more, which I’d want out of the Press,

    4, the best marketing is the language of their own language, rather than apply the words of others.
    can move users, and only the most real thing you own. Stereotyped and no one to say, you do not have to hear annoying home tired, need a marketing person, a wise man, rather than a 3,4-ten of the repeater.

    5, each enterprise will have a sense of mission, but must be able to do the mission!
    you change the culture of the industry? No, still have to click on the cheat cheat, rub the edges still have to play to play.
    you the benefits the country? No, like you will be able to steal tax evasion, can be less of a person you still have to work to open.
    your community can do for the government for the nation? Can not do anything.
    OK, work hard, do not control life and death of others, after all, you have not succeeded.

    6, the most outstanding entrepreneurs must be simple! Excellent company must be simple!
    fortune to see who has, KFC and large M, even a child playing Monopoly all know that this quasi-two stock compensation can not be bought, and what they sell? Just a simple person to know is no longer a simple hamburger fries soft ice cream, but why they can run wild out of the well known China for several decades, and a hundred 10 or perhaps even thousands of delicacy of the domestic food industry, but no an opening in the provinces are linked? Although many reasons, but simply is a big problem. In fact, the Internet industry with the restaurant industry are surprisingly similar, the content is done behind closed doors, open the door to the customer, but you do not know the door into what the customer is, what preferences. The most simple, is suitable for more people.
    then enterprise? A business to open dozens of hundreds of departments, staff differentiation serious infighting among each other, you are afraid I agree with you tube, I’m afraid you told me the black-like, can do strange career. High in Lang’s eNet is a good example. I told everyone in the company have said, FRANCISCO personnel do not reform, he would not do the Olympic Games press release the day. Also financing also listed, nonsense!

    7, if your company is only two people on the business card you call his own a little lower, it will win the respect!
    This case in many small businesses and small websites too common, and obviously is a small place four or five individuals, have to tell that this is the CEO, this is the COO, this is the CFO, which is the UFO … … oh, UFO is flying saucer. Tell a little story, when Liu Bei come down when the company started, the company only two iron workers, Guan Yu and Zhang Fei with. The two of them is the rank of a one-step horse archer archers, even Zan said: Liu Bei said at the time:

    8, successful companies must figure out why the success!
    explain this very well, do not account for credit for a person to understand your honor and status today, who gave you, take good care of their subordinates, to treat their own employees, to make you more credibility in the between enterprises, too, Chairman Mao said, well, the world ..!

    10, female entrepreneurship is a challenge, the biggest challenge women entrepreneurs and breakthrough is the employer, the employer is the biggest breakthrough in the trust people.

    11, Zhao Yao your entire maturity, and the feasibility of the project, I think I just said, we quite agree. The first thing I might worry you the most proud of is your team and your team is precisely the most worried about start times do not find a star team, or successful together, has successfully been difficult to start with, the early days To find those who do not succeed, desire to succeed, united team. When you wait until a certain degree, go to some of the talent on your investment, is very good. Especially the kind of 35-year-old, 40-year-old would have been rich, and there are successful, I remind you, start looking for the most appropriate person, not necessarily looking for the most successful people.

    12, I think a lot of things do not want to dry it will become a task, if not anything very difficult to make a strong interest. business is like.

    13, not blind faith in the success of learn to look at other people’s bad experience (often less successful experts say, then listen to all the entrepreneurs spend more time learning how others fail, because there are thousands of reasons for the success, failure on one or two points So my advice is to listen to successful small school lectures, is determined to learn the true feelings of success, one day you are successful, you are right about anything.)

    14, just never give up, we still have a chance. Finally,Doudounes Moncler, we believe that this world as long as the dream, as long as the ongoing efforts, as long as continuous learning, no matter how you look, whether it is the case, or as a man’s looks often and inversely proportional to his talent and today it is cruel, more brutal tomorrow, the day after tomorrow is good, but most definitely die tomorrow night, so everyone not to give up today. employees first, customers second. Without them, there is no this site. only they happy, our customers will be happy, while customers are the words of encouragement, words of encouragement, but also allow them
    to work like crazy, like, This enables us to continually develop the site. help people work like crazy is not dry, not to see him smiling a day off work to go home. will rise.

    15, you need is investment and investment, spend time, invest time, on the internet, to invest their time in the network above, the network will give you money, but not necessarily how much you can today, tomorrow, the money is things, save money, you can see today. grip. CEO’s main task is not to look for opportunities but the chance to say NO. opportunity too, can only catch one. I can only catch a rabbit, caught more, what will be lost. 17, We have failed, and now it was successful, and you fail, you blame yourself. is a word, even if you are unlucky, also you not. may believe that you do not let your colleagues for your work, colleagues and let us work for our goals and work together, united in a common goal the following, we must unite you than an entrepreneur much easier under the So first of all to convince you agree with the common ideal, and not to let people work for you. Wang Zheer people pull, pull some people over there, between each other to their own mess out first. When you have a fool, the silly, you are will be very painful; you have a 50 fool is happy, eating, sleeping, lined up to go to the toilet; you have a very interesting when smart people, you have 50 smart people are actually the most painful, anyone who refuses to accept. My role in the company as cement, to glue together many talents, so that they make the effort to place.
    * The biggest difference between us and our competitors is that we know what they want to do, but they do not know what we want. We want to do, there is no need to let everyone know.
    * above the word network, barefoot is always afraid of the wearer.
    * failure on the Internet must be self-inflicted, or is the brain fever, or that the brain is not hot, too cold.
    * I think that Internet companies will make mistakes, and must make mistakes, the network’s biggest mistake is to stay still without moving, the biggest mistake is to not make mistakes. The key is to summarize a variety of errors we reflect, better run for tomorrow, have made an error, the key is not to make the same mistake.
    * We teach people to fish rather than to the mermaid.
    * Chinese e-commerce must have to stand up and walk, and not always hand in hand, always hand in hand to be finished.
    * I found a gold mine, said Ali Baba, that we definitely do not dig their own, we want others to dig, he gave me a gold digging on it.
    * Why do I survive? The first is because I have no money, and the second is on the INTERNET that I do not know, I think the third is like a fool.
    * If not now, when? If not me, who?
    * Internet like a glass of beer, the best time to drink with foam.
    * Ali Baba Ali Baba is a six-pulse Excalibur values: integrity, dedication, passion, embrace change, teamwork, customer first.
    * I will never believe that never give up, we still have a chance. Finally, we believe that this world as long as the dream, as long as the ongoing efforts, as long as continuous learning, no matter how you look, whether it is the case, or as a man’s looks and his talent is often inversely proportional. I am very cruel, more brutal tomorrow, the day after tomorrow is good, but most definitely die tomorrow night, so everyone not to give up today.
    * Three years ago I sent a colleague to read MBA, I said to him, after graduation if you forget what they have learned something, that you have graduated. If you have learned every day, was thinking about something, then you have not yet graduated. Learning MBA knowledge, but to get out of the MBA limitations.
    * for all entrepreneurs, always telling myself saying: From the start was the first day, every day you have to face the difficulties and failures, rather than success. My most difficult times yet to come, but one day will be to. Difficulty is not can not escape, can not let someone else for you to go against. Nine-year business experience tells me, you have to be any difficulties to face. Entrepreneur is faced with difficulties.
    * ebay is a sea of ??sharks, Taobao is the Yangtze River where the crocodile, crocodiles and sharks in the sea battle, with predictable results, we need to lead to the Yangtze River to the shark.
    * In both cases, a company most likely to make mistakes, there is too much money the first time, the second is the face of too many opportunities to see a CEO should not be a chance, because no opportunity Department is not, a CEO should see the disaster and the disaster strangled in the cradle.

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