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Jared Got a Gun


     Did anyone else notice that Speaker of the House John Boehner did not shed a tear when issuing his statement about the massacre in Arizona that killed, among others, a nine-year-old girl and left Congresswomen Gabrielle Giffords maimed? The new Speaker notoriously weeps when recounting his own youthful travails rising to fortune in business and power in government. He handled this incident like a news-caster at a Midwestern TV station reporting rush hour traffic.
     I doubt that the young shooter, Jared Lee Loughner, will turn out to be affiliated with the Tea Party or any other established political faction. The evidence he left in a few YouTube videos evinces the thought disorder typical of post-adolescent onset schizophrenia, but with a remarkable twist. He was preoccupied with thoughts about currency, money, in particular how money is created. In the text-and-music video available here at  YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGRCEIxU96A&feature=related), Loughner writes:
Every human who’s mentally capable is always able to be treasurer of their new currency…. 
If you create one new currency then you’re able to create a second new currency.
If you’re able to create a second new currency then you’re able to create a third new currency.
You create one new currency.
Thus you’re able to create a third currency.
     Does this begin to sound sickeningly like the policy of the Federal Reserve and the thinking of its chairman, Ben Bernanke? Is the monetary behavior of top US officials now so disordered that it is showing up as mental illness in young people?
    You are wrong if you think I’m being facetious.
    Loughner had a few other obsessions: control, sleepwalking, the “scam” of higher education, and terrorism.
    For more than one generation it has been difficult for young American males to develop successfully into men. They even dress like babies at 25. Their vocational options these days tend toward corporate slavery of one kind or another. Flipping burgers for a despotic fast food chain. A job in a cubicle. At best, a job in a cubicle making a lot of money by swindling fellow Americans. If they manage to get through college, many face a lifetime of tuition loan debt slavery. 
    The rewards of entering the realm beyond college are paltry-to-miserable. Solitary cab rides to the mall. A burrito and a Big Gulp. Later, back home, an hour in the virtual company of the Kardashian sisters via the E-Network on your parents’ cable TV. Where are the initiations into manhood? (Try the channelized dry-wash, courtesy of the Barrio Blue Moon boyz.) I’m convinced that the reason video games and movies aimed at young males in America are devoted almost solely to fantasies about super-heroes and supernatural power (especially the power to kill) is because adolescent boys feel so impotent, so powerless, so unlike real men. The adults in this culture do not furnish any meaningful alternative scripts. That’s the market’s job, I guess.
     When confused and disturbed young men do act, they sometimes act out the scripts of violent retribution that the video game and movie business so lavishly supply to them. This is a culture, lately, with no room whatsoever for tenderness. Look for a moment of tenderness in the popular video game, Carmageddon. The Speaker of the House’s moments of tender reminiscence are reserved for himself. This used to be known as a condition called feeling sorry for yourself. It was considered, if anything, un-manly.
     I don’t know if the ambient political mood of the USA is any more poisonous now than it was for about a decade starting in the 1960s, when all those assassinations changed history: John Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy, George Wallace, plus Lennon and the attempts on Ford and Reagan. The Baby Boomers produced more than their share of lost souls. Myth still shrouds the doings of Lee Harvey Oswald, since he was bumped off so quickly, but other shooters have been around for decades. Surely plenty of people from FBI agents to forensic psychiatrists have plumbed the depths of Sirhan Sirhan and Arthur Bremer over their many years of incarceration, and all they find are a couple of human black holes yielding nothing that illuminates their acts.
     I doubt that the shooting of Congresswoman Giffords and the many others who attended her meet-and-greet will lead to anything like more civility in politics. The country faces grave problems and most of the political noise rises not from the agony of facing them, but from the desperate efforts to avoid or deflect them. The deliberations at the highest level in Washington sound these days like the tortured reasoning of Jared Lee Loughner – for instance the hiring of William Daley from JP Morgan to run a White House that is hostage to JP Morgan.
     One thing the shooter surely accomplished: it will now cost elected officials hundreds of millions of dollars more every year to imagine they can protect themselves with new layers of security. Not just the assignment of federal marshals, but the deployment of all sorts of “high-tech” equipment and procedures, since we are now in the techno-rapture phase of the long emergency, which features massive amounts of magical thinking. 
      Will history notice that Jared Lee Loughner was struggling to puzzle through the mysteries of currency and of who controlled what in this world, even while he was being tossed out of a community college that he was extremely conscious of being scammed to pay for – a government-supported school that affected to prepare young people for a career spent in a corporate cubicle in order to fork over the weekly paycheck to pay back college loans.
     From their website:
At Pima Community College you have access to an affordable, high-quality education. Our Costs and Payments section will familiarize you with tuition for credit and non-credit classes, as well as with payment methods.

Don’t let a lack of funds keep you from reaching your goals! There are options available to help you cover tuition, including:

Federal Financial Aid – you should apply, don’t assume you’re not eligible!
Veteran’s Benefits
Scholarships and Grants
Work Study Programs
     The shootings of Congresswoman Giffords and all the others took place in front of a Safeway Supermarket in a strip mall in a city of strip malls and housing subdivisions – many of them failing financially. It must be unbelievably difficult for a young person to make sense of such an incoherent environment and such cruel swindling culture. A society that habitually and incessantly lies to itself is apt to choke to death on its internal contradictions. Jared Lee showed an unusual concern for language and literacy. His videos were all words, no pictures. I wonder if the word SAFEWAY flashed through his brain when he pulled the trigger.

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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

737 Responses to “Jared Got a Gun” Subscribe

  1. sergei nechaev January 10, 2011 at 9:12 am #

    well said mr. kunstler and all so tragically true. I am a bit surprised that you touch only lightly on what seems to me to be the central dimension of this mayhem, missed entirely by the mainstream commentators focussing solely on lone madmen, guns & vitriol. The tea partiers & their ilk are parasiting upon a vast ambulatory wave of resentment & fear caused by the collapse of economic prospects for millions of american blue-collar workers. Profoundly ignorant, deeply suspicious of the privileged (which means as much the educated as the rich), this anti-elite rage has to date been successfully challenged by the right wing into predictably partisan channels. But should the republicans take power, perhaps this rage will turn on them as well. One key to the puzzle of this young man’s bizarre acts lies in his social class status, and self-perception. There really IS a war going on in the USA, a class war

  2. sergei nechaev January 10, 2011 at 9:12 am #

    and i guess i was first!

  3. HeadingOut January 10, 2011 at 9:18 am #

    Karl Denninger posts another insightful commentary on the tragic shooting: http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=176851

  4. GAbert January 10, 2011 at 9:26 am #

    The Tucson Massacre, a sign of our times or a prelude of the future?
    http://www.gwabert.com/

  5. judetennessee January 10, 2011 at 9:26 am #

    Excellent point about the popularity of superheros in a time when we have no heroes. If the blowback from this somehow takes the wind out of she whose name must not be spoken sails, that will the silver lining in this dark cloud.

  6. Barter4Booze January 10, 2011 at 9:27 am #

    Jim,
    It has been a long time, but George Wallace wasn’t assassinated; he suffered a grievous physical injury that put him into a wheelchair for the rest of his life, similar in many ways to the grievous psychological injury he inflicted upon himself — and upon the American psyche — through massive doses of racist hatred, paranoia and fear.

  7. HeadingOut January 10, 2011 at 9:33 am #

    The Endarkenment of America continues. This week’s lesson continues to focus on whom to direct accusations and hatred: pot smokers, gun owners, Lefties, Rigthies, immigrants, enforcers of immigration law, Constitutionalists, promoters of honest money, and anyone walking across a suburban strip mall parking lot with hands in pockets.

  8. randomike January 10, 2011 at 9:40 am #

    Thanks highlighting how the darker side of role/behavior models for young people has confused them, in this case into insanity.

  9. HeadingOut January 10, 2011 at 9:40 am #

    And we could all sing! “The wheels of the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round…

  10. kulturcritic January 10, 2011 at 9:42 am #

    ?”A society that habitually and incessantly lies to itself is apt to choke to death on its internal contradictions.” – JHK
    “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” George Orwell

  11. Bobby January 10, 2011 at 9:44 am #

    “We’re all Bozos on this bus.”

  12. Leibowitz Society January 10, 2011 at 9:47 am #

    Unfortunately, we are all entering uncharted waters as our nations and global civilization collapse. The alienation that someone like Loughner feels is nothing new. The problem is that there is no longer any hope of adjusting out of it into the mainstream of society, because the mainstream of society is rapidly drying up.
    Visit http://leibowitzsociety.blogspot.com for a roadmap of saving what was good about our civilization for a future age.

  13. myrtlemay January 10, 2011 at 9:59 am #

    What is it with all of our young people resorting to such violence? I remember the Columbine tragedy clearly. When exactly was it that our youth became so disenfranchised that murder on a grand scale became the only “solution” to ending one’s spiritual agony? It is a heart-wrenching time here in our country. Why won’t anyone explore the sickness that is pervading our culture and our young people? Is it too frightening?
    This young man is most definitely mentally ill. One must first ask the question: where does sanity end and mental illness begin? Who among us is safe when an entire generation realizes it has been hoodwinked, cajoled, into becoming another cog in the wheel that has been greased to further the interests of the elite hierarchy? Graduating (or not) from college with a huge financial burden effectively makes the average, middle class student a slave to the whims of their corporate masters. That is, if the student is “lucky” enough to beat out the competition and get hired at all, he or she can resign themselves to life in a cubicle, attached to a telephone cord, in much the same way that a fetus is attached to its mother’s umbilical cord.
    BTW, I did notice “Weepy Sister” Boehner didn’t cry when discussing this malicious assassination. He sheds crocodile tears when waxing philosophical about…HIMSELF! This “I’ve got mine, so fuck the rest of you!” attitude has gone so mainstream across all realms of the economic spectrum that it is indeed nauseating. Time was (and it was not so very long ago, really) managers prided themselves in recruiting and grooming young talent. The supervisors of these managers were gleeful that their managers had a long-term outlook for the business. This proactive strategy of promoting talent and promoting employees was seen as a commitment to the company’s long range prosperity. Alas, today it appears that a “Get in, get out, and grab all you can while you’re at it.” mode of business has ensured short-term results at the expense of hard working hacks. Not unlike the contestants on a game show who enter vacuum tubes filled with floating cash for fifteen seconds. Society reaps what it sows.

  14. Hancock1863 January 10, 2011 at 9:59 am #

    That was one funny, yet predictable, argument.
    Thanks for the link to the Dennigner article.
    Mein Kampf, to anyone who can pass a 9th grade world history exam, illuminates a Right-Wing traditionalist blood-and-soil philosophy.
    I love how RW Authoritarians point to a RW Authoritarian book like Mein Kampf as proof that Loughner was a leftist.
    Yeh, and Hitler was on the same side as all those Liberal Jews he murdered.
    The Holocaust was a Leftist Intramural Scrum, and no dictators or evil men anywhere anytime have ever been Right Wing. The King of England in 1776 was a Socialist Leftist Liberal, as everyone knows.
    Does that make sense? No. Does it have to make sense? No.
    Does it work? Yes. Authoritarians have been using this tactic since long-before it was measured, metered and defined to twenty decimal places by the American Military-Industrial Complex. (thanks, Hippie Eisenhower, for that Communist Socialshits Fascist term)
    But, of course, now that it has been measured, metered and defined to twenty decimal places it can make reality melt like mozarella cheese on a hot pizza.
    Self referential circles of bullshittery, not just the cornerstone of RW Authoritarianiansm today, (and LW, where it arises) but of all of what used to be the USA runs on that marketing principle.
    Is it going to work? Of course it is? RW Authoritarian propaganda lies currently seldom fail to achieve success on statistically significant portions of the target audience or subject population.
    At least these days and during 99% of human history, that is the case.
    Anyway, so I think we should beat the Kwanzaa rush and all agree that Hitler was a Leftist, Mussolini was a Leftist, fascism is Leftism, Authoritarianism traditionalist “blood and soil” movements are Leftism, and that all bad people everywhere are Leftists.
    The next logical step is why the decent people of America could allow such Liberal Evil to survive when options and solutions remain open to those with the courage and will to contemplate them.
    Look how nice Europe is today after Hitler and his RW Authoritarians did their thing. He didn’t do so well in solving the Liberal problem, as Europe is crawling with secular humanist sheer evil.
    But at least a good decent American Christian Conservative can criss-cross Europe today knowing that even thogh liberal vermin continue to survive and breed in record numbers (nits make lice) at least a good decent American Christian Conservative can be secure in knowing that at least these vermin aren’t Liberal Jew Vermin.
    Just plain old Liberal vermin, who’s time is coming and judgement day cometh right early, as the inerrantly true Bible teaches us.
    Have fun today, CFN. Have ever so much fun dry-humping the tragedy.

  15. Schwerpunkt January 10, 2011 at 10:01 am #

    I tend to agree with JHK on the issue of a lack of direction for a good majority of males – and the sad forecast that the tone won’t change but may take a break, and then continue. However, I have to add Adultswim onto the list of modern American male wastelands of time and space. In my own blogging – right before the shooting – I was ranting about education and how I believe that the system of education is a trap, and my theory that our current focus on “life long learning” is a swindle of late capitalism and disposable workers and the “our schools are failing” a way to sell us more things we don’t need. I don’t think we can draw a line of rational thought from those of us who discuss and attempt to change our issues and The Crazy that is coming out more and more with this assassination attempt we are told is a “shooting,” letter bombs we are told “are not bombs” and terror attacks we are told are not terror attacks because it was just a loopy old man who flew his airplane into the IRS – nothing to see here folks. Nevertheless, who was it who said that the insane are the bellwether of a nation?
    My own humble opining on Edu
    http://www.schwerpunkter.wordpress.com

  16. empirestatebuilding January 10, 2011 at 10:04 am #

    For many months Psychohistorians as Lloyd DeMause in particular have been predicting a political assassination.
    The group fantasy has been rife with signals calling for violence. Psychotics are able to tune into these signals with aplomb.
    Aimlow Joe was here.
    http://www.aimlow.com

  17. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown January 10, 2011 at 10:11 am #

    > dry-humping the tragedy.
    Amen. If you ever thought about taking a week and unplugging from the tube/web/whatever, this is probably it.

  18. kulturcritic January 10, 2011 at 10:12 am #

    “This young man is most definitely mentally ill.” ”
    “Who among us is safe when an entire generation realizes it has been hoodwinked, cajoled, into becoming another cog in the wheel that has been greased to further the interests of the elite hierarchy?”
    Don’t you see the inherent contradiction in your two statements here. Why would you state that he is definitely mentally ill, when you go on to say that he merely understood that he had been hoodwinked…?

  19. myrtlemay January 10, 2011 at 10:12 am #

    With all due respect to Mr. Denninger, me thinks he protests too much. Up until this past week, he lamented that the Tea Patty (sorry – I just got done with a re-read of Vonnegut’s “Breakfast of Champions”) which he takes credit for co-founding, went nowhere this past election cycle. Could it be that he wonders if the extreme rhetoric from this group might have contributed to the young man’s murderous spree? Is there blood on Mr. Denninger’s hands, as there might well be on Miss Palin’s? In the words of Lady MacBeth, “Out, oh wretched stain, OUT!”

  20. Arctic Fox January 10, 2011 at 10:14 am #

    I’m in tune with JHK’s worldview… But it’s a shame that JHK is devoting precious column space to this little douche-bag, Jared the Shooter. Why offer any dignity to such a demented twerp?
    From what I’ve read, Shooter-boy’s parents are loners who let their son grow up at the fringes of everything. Now the proud papa & mama can claim breeding rights to the 2010-version of the Columbine Gang. According to Jared’s high school pals, he smoked a bunch of weed — too much, apparently — and whatever else he put in his pipe. Medical people are doing distance-diagnosis and opining paranoia-schziphrenia.
    In short, Jared and his gunslinging make for a one-off, black-swan event. He stands for nothing, except as a poster-boy for crazed psychos who crawl out of their spider-holes every now & again. I’m pi$$ed that Jared chose to commit a terrible crime, and his self-centered act has now managed to suck up most of the media oxygen for the past two days.
    Jared is a meaningless person, who managed to get his moment of fame by doing something utterly destructive. He subtracts from the sum of human discourse.

  21. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown January 10, 2011 at 10:15 am #

    Uh ok, whatever, but if you keep predicting something long enough, eventually it will happen.

  22. wagelaborer January 10, 2011 at 10:16 am #

    It isn’t just video games and movies that teach our children that killing is the solution to conflicts with others.
    It’s our entire culture.
    How can you ignore six decades of US “interventions” into other people’s countries, bring death and destruction to people all over the world?
    Personally, I think that the video games and movies are made in service of US Empire, and its requirement of willing paid assassins.
    War has been a traditional means of disposing of excess young men.
    Hatred of liberals and minorities is a newer tradition, finessed by Hitler and brought to the US via the ratline and their US patrons.
    The attacks in Tennessee, Austin and Florida were also “confused” men with Limbaugh and Coulter books in their possessions.
    Once again, the ruling class will use this incident as a way to further repress the US population, while the Becks and Limbaughs carry on as usual.
    And eightm, you charming and thoughtful man, I thought that the link was funny, and it reminded me of you. So sorry that you have no sense of humor, it might make your life more bearable.

  23. myrtlemay January 10, 2011 at 10:22 am #

    The line between sanity and insanity is pretty thin, IMO. I honestly don’t know what pushes someone over the edge into committing mass murder. I did not mean to imply that the young man became murderous simply because of the realization that his generation has effectively been shut out of any economic opportunity. If that were the case, we’d all better duck and cover, because there are a hell of a lot of people under thirty with a HUGE debt load and only limited chances of getting out from under. Many of these young people have more “education” than my generation ever dreamed of having, yet they are waiting tables and flipping burgers. I have to ask myself what kind of society wastes its human capital so capriciously? And at what ultimate cost?

  24. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 10:23 am #

    ” The evidence he left in a few YouTube videos evinces the thought disorder typical of post-adolescent onset schizophrenia…”
    Period. End of sentence. All that follows is silly, trite, dime-store psychobabble.

  25. nothing January 10, 2011 at 10:24 am #

    Jimbo! Brilliant. I thought perhaps you would fall into the easy trap of blaming the Tea Party types for this insanity in the desert. I underestimated you.
    Suburbia is a prison, a stifling cul-de-sac of frustrated lives, and who knows how many other crazies dwell therein. Stifling freedom with a government culture of safety and entitlements will only create more blowouts in the future. Young men need to know that harnessing their aggression by producing something of value is a path to happiness. We have become a country of zombies, pursuing nothing but safety.
    The Nothing Store

  26. Unconventional Ideas January 10, 2011 at 10:29 am #

    Any adult who is in a position to should devote a sustained effort to helping young people get some sort of meaningful footing in society. This has never been more urgent.
    The institutions that exist won’t do this for them.
    If we, the elders do anything of value going forward, it will be most likely in the realm of developing the young in our family, and local community.

  27. Newfie January 10, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    Just for some outside perspective… I do not live in the USA. So for perhaps that reason, I notice that very little of the commentary in any of the media discusses the easy access to guns as a contributing factor. The other Western democracies do not allow guns and ammunition to be bought and sold like Bic lighters at the corner store.
    An angry and confused populace armed to the teeth with deadly weapons living in a society arcing towards rapid decline is not a hopeful prospect, as we all know there is much, much worse coming in the way of economic deprivation as oil production peaks and goes into terminal decline. God help you all (but I doubt He cares).

  28. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 10:37 am #

    “Once again, the ruling class will use this incident as a way to further repress the US population, while the Becks and Limbaughs carry on as usual.”
    What the fuck does this even mean? Somehow I think that given their individual wealth that Beck and Limbaugh would be included in the “ruling class.” Yet you separate them out.
    But let us pretend that they are not a part of the “ruling class.” You say the “ruling class” “will use this incident as a way to further repress the US population.” Perhaps. Yet Beck and Limbaugh will carry on as usual. Perhaps. But what is worse, the ruling class cracking down on the ruled or a bunch of rodeo clowns flapping their jaws about what ever the hell they wish on programs that nobody is forced to listen to? Hmmmmmm?

  29. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 10:39 am #

    “Any adult who is in a position to should devote a sustained effort to helping young people get some sort of meaningful footing in society. This has never been more urgent.”
    Excuse me but what you are describing here is parenting. I know it is a concept that has become outmoded but it really is that simple.

  30. tstreet January 10, 2011 at 10:39 am #

    There must be thousands of deranged and not so deranged young people who right now are acting out their frustration/despair through fantasy games or real actions. When you are losing, there is a tendency to strike out at something. Sadly, Jared decided to strike out as his fellow human beings. He appeared too lack all compassion as he killed a 9 year old in addition to all the other people.
    34 people are killed every day in the U.S. There is nothing on the horizon that would lead me to believe that this number will decrease. This is a society that produceds murderers and yet we do everything we can to make it all that much easier by letting psychopaths buy semi automatic weapons.

  31. Laibach January 10, 2011 at 10:40 am #

    Thank God the guy was not an Arab…!

  32. ccm989 January 10, 2011 at 10:40 am #

    Jared the Nothing is just a continuation of the downfall of American democracy. Sanity and rationalism are out. Beck/Limbaugh and FOX News is in. Toxic rhetoric by the extreme right wing talking heads is encouraging the mentally unhinged to get guns and use them. Particularly disturbing are Sharon Angel (“2nd amendment solutions”), Sarah Palin (“reload”) with a fancy website that has cross-hairs on Senator Giffords, and Michelle Bachmann (“armed and dangerous”) are clearly inciting violence. And they all have the backing of the NRA.
    And the right wingers are giving the OK to shoot unarmed woman at supermarkets because you don’t like their brand of politics. And the Weeper of the House doesn’t even shed a tear. Shameful.

  33. Uncle Al January 10, 2011 at 10:40 am #

    Official Truth tells us Mr. Loughner fire a 9mm Glock at point blamk range. The ~Mach 1 bullet point blank entered the left rear of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords’ head, traveled through the left lobe of her cerebrum, and exited unfragmented. The woman yet lives.
    An ungilded lead bullet’s nose will smear and catch on the loading ramp or lip. Full gilding is inappropriate to the task. “Ball rounds do not expand and are always the worst choice in a defensive round. The military uses ball because it feeds well (i.e. rarely jams), penetrates far, and the military is required to use ball under the Geneva Convention.”
    Gilded HOLLOW POINTS – Corbon DPX, Federal Nyclad; 125 grain maximum. #1 choice is Cor-Bon 9mm 115 grain +P Jacketed Hollowpoint.
    Best efforts will not substitute for knowedge – hence higher education, then its political debasement. Mr. Loughner was carefully uneducated in how to learn. By operating in a vacuum, he sucked.
    The productive must be whipped to produce in a Red Queen’s race for personal survival. Their productivity is confiscated for award to the deserving, less shipping and handling, who provide tension for ever-insufficient law enforcement plus volunteer meat for military adventurism. The process is ruled by Finance and Law that are handsomely remunerated.
    Over a mere two years Obamanation has embezzled at least $6 trillion in public funds. It is the most corrupt government in history. Caligula looks up from Hell and weeps. Perhaps a few more “unfortunate incidents” will provide a vacuum leak in armored containment USDOJ Attorney General
    Eric H. Holder, Jr. so punctiliously maintains.

  34. rippedthunder January 10, 2011 at 10:41 am #

    Hello Newfie. Americans gun crazy? you must be kidding. This eight year old killed himself at a gun show a few miles up the road from me. Unbelievable, His father was a doctor who should have at least had half a brain.
    http://abcnews.go.com/us/video/disabled-womens-abuse-caught-tape-12564482&tab=9482931&section=1206833

  35. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 10:42 am #

    “God help you all (but I doubt He cares).”
    If you believe in the concept of God (and I think you do because you bothered to capitalize “He”) you should have no doubt that He cares.

  36. Cash January 10, 2011 at 10:42 am #

    Progressorconserve, Ibendet, Hancock and others
    re yesterday’s discussion
    I respect your points of view but I’m going to stick to my guns on the issue of the relative toxicity of leftwing rhetoric vs rightwing rhetoric.
    I live in a different country and society so I hear the “noise” from south of the border differently than you guys. You guys are immersed in it. I’m not. That makes you guys better qualifed than me to understand it.
    But maybe my distance from it gives me a different (I don’t want to use the word “objective”) perspective. Also, I’m a product of this place and so am molded by it so I see things through a different filter. But having said that, I still have to call it like I see it.
    I don’t want to belabour this but there’s two things I want to relate so maybe you understand my mindset:
    My hometown is a small place. About ten years ago one of our national, big city newspapers published a long article on the consistent high levels of scholastic achievement of our high school students as evidenced by provincial testing. They sent reporters to interview the “locals” who I grew up with. The unspoken but underlying question of the article was this: how could these unsophisticated rubes beat out big city kids?
    This is typical liberalism in this country, that rural or small town people are redneck, racist, sexist, retrograde, xenophobe, inbred morons. Insulting to say the least.
    And this superior, patronizing attitude is not only implicit but absolutely explicit. we had a poilictal party called the Reform Party based in the west founded by a thin, squeaky voiced dickweed politician. The accusations hurled by Liberals/lefties at the poor dude and his followers were exactly as I said: that they were racist, sexist, retrograde, xenophobe morons. To say it was a depressing spectacle would be an understatement. The shrieking idiocy you see from the Right we see from the Left.
    Having said all this I will say you are right, the nature of the discourse coming from right and left differs. Doesn’t make it any less toxic though IMO.

  37. piltdownman January 10, 2011 at 10:44 am #

    I’ve always been amazed that this sort of thing doesn’t happen more often. When you factor in the sheer size of our population and how dysfunctional so many people are, it’s a shock that we don’t have an assassination-a-week.
    I agree completely with Jim’s take on young men today. I have a 27 year old nephew who is still living at home. He dropped out of a PhD. program a couple of years back and now washes dishes. Mom and Dad, as far as I can tell, haven’t had the balls to kick his ass out of the house and tell him to sink or swim. Easily a third of his life is over and he has done NOTHING.
    And he’s just one of millions.
    I remember when I first started seeing people playing games on their cell phones years ago. It struck me; who are these adults who are doing this? Would my father or his generation “played” during the work day? Hell, no. They had to work…
    Riffing here, I know…
    As to political discourse being tempered due to this? Hell no. Won’t happen — because money is being made by all the players. Beck makes money, his network makes money, the advertisers make money and so it goes. Ditto all the rest.
    Maybe our only hope is a massive EM pulse which would shut down all the media for a period of time…..

  38. rippedthunder January 10, 2011 at 10:45 am #

    sorry wrong link, here is the right link
    http://www.thebostonchannel.com/newsarchive/26385792/detail.html

  39. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown January 10, 2011 at 10:46 am #

    JHK, good column this week. One question, though, what do you mean 25 year-old’s dress like babies? I’m maybe not seeing it or not noticing it, but wondering just what you’re getting at. Thanks.

  40. MarlinFive54 January 10, 2011 at 10:47 am #

    Ex-Phillies pitcher, and Yankee & Mets manager Dallas Greens’ 9 year old grand daughter was one of those shot to death. Apparently grand daughter and Grand father were very close. What can one say?

  41. J Lee January 10, 2011 at 10:53 am #

    So we want to announce and convince ourselves that Jarad wasn’t really one of us. He was disturbed or insane or clinically depressed or evil or… And he killed some people. Horrors of horrors! Imagine and american with a gun killing some people. And the rest of us want to wrench our souls. It didn’t much matter when our child president Bush decided to kill thousands in Iraq and Afghanistan. Or when Clinton tried to starve the Iraqis – which he did quite successfully. And it doesn’t matter that we fuel the carnage in Mexico because we just love our drugs, man. And no on is really outraged about the scam of the Fed and the bailout of the wall street boyz that the rest of us will have to pay for the rest of our lives. Jarad wasn’t a lone crackpot. He is america. Ain’t america grand!

  42. Newfie January 10, 2011 at 10:53 am #

    Society is schizophrenic – the Left and the Right. It needs psychoanalysis and treatment. Urgently…

  43. orionoir January 10, 2011 at 10:56 am #

    thanks for the link to the killer’s youtube, but i say boo to anyone (and there surely will be many) who tries to make short-term political hay off the actions of a deranged twenty-two year old.
    surely palin, beck, et al deliberately appeal to the alienated, angry & ignorant classes, but i don’t think they or anyone else see much use in the mentally ill. perhaps they’re a little less concerned re whether insane loners have easy access to guns than we on the left, but it’s not because they’ve made common cause with the insane. rather, they consider the cost of these occasional mass shootings negligible.
    i doubt i’m the first to note that one of the “heroes” who subdued the gunman explained his bravery by explaining that he too was carrying a loaded weapon.
    as for jared’s “thoughts” on currency, shame on you for trying to link them to your criticisms of fed policy. the man is out of his mind, and not in an original or meaningful way: it’s an emblematic schizoid feature to retain the vocabulary and structure of language while losing the ability to sustain human thought.

  44. TechnoTangoBabe January 10, 2011 at 10:58 am #

    I think the main slime of this entire sad affair is yet to be found, maybe right next to the sludge from the BP oil spill that went amiss, on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico, a few inches deep.
    I feel sheer terror for Mrs Gifford and her family, for having to go through a nightmare such as this and am amongst countless millions who wish her a full recovery. But I do agree with a fellow poster above, Jared Loughner stands for nothing, but the opportunity for everybody to turn him into something is just too good to pass up.
    Is anybody aware that Mrs. Gifford’s YouTube channel subscribes itself to only 2 other YouTube channels? One of them Jared Loughner’s channel? The 2 knew each other, as he was an aide to her before. So God only knows what the murky background really is that the 2 of them shared.
    But isn’t it convenient now that the nation has yet another reason to completely go overboard once more. New aim needs to be taken on potsmokers, haven’t we been telling you for years this stuff is bad for you??? Smoking pot makes you want to kill politicians, we can’t have that… And Leftists. And Rightist. If you add them together they make Zero. Congress shuts down for an entire week and conveniently, the test vote to repeal Obamacare gets postponed. Faster than the speed of light, today a new bill will get introduced to provide more gun control, as a response to the shooting.
    I feel extremely sad for Mrs. Gifford and do agree that Jared Loughner probably suffers from Schizophrenia, but there’s a lot more here that needs to be discovered, the truth. And I’m saddened that once again the media, the entire country, really, without further investigation or questioning, is jumping to conclusions. The entire Kahuna in a box, all sorted, analyzed and we told you so 35 minutes after it hits TV.
    Michelle Gifford is a very lucky woman for having survived her attack, Jared Loughner is a schizophrenic nobody and everybody is looking in the wrong places again. The nation bickers exactly what it is supposed to bicker about today, which prevents that we finally bicker about what really is.

  45. Cash January 10, 2011 at 10:59 am #

    My computer just crapped out. I just want to finish the thought: maybe I’m seeing things as filtered by my own experiences but I see the same superior attitude in Americans on the left of the spectrum. Sneeringly dismissive, superior and patronizing towards people they see as not up to their standard. Different in nature than the ranting from the Rush’s of the world but IMO just as corrosive to the politics of your country. If you don’t agree with them you’re a fascist and if you’re not that then you’re an idiot.
    The Conservative Party in this country understands the resentment felt by small town people and they feast on it. They take great pains to make it clear they are one of us, of the people, for the people (bullshit of course), not like the elitist Liberals. A Conservative would not be caught dead in a Starbucks, rather they go to Tim Hortons for coffee and donuts, founded by Maple Leafs defenceman Tim Horton, a hugely popular, toothless, rock’em, sock’em hockey player. One of us in other words.
    So there you have it. Maybe we’ll just agree to disagree.

  46. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 11:01 am #

    “He is america. Ain’t america grand!”
    You are Dick. Ain’t Dick tiny!

  47. kulturcritic January 10, 2011 at 11:03 am #

    “I have to ask myself what kind of society wastes its human capital so capriciously? And at what ultimate cost?”Interesting that you chose these words about Capital, MM. In fact it is the issue of capital and currency that JHK raises in his analysis of motives here. It seems as though all has been reduced to capital and its accumulation in our society… the apex of Western Civ.
    Indeed, capitalism has realized its destiny to occupy every corner of the globe. So it now stares down the barrel of its most explosive internal contradiction. There is nowhere left for it to grow; yet grow it must, or die. But, there are no untapped markets left and every human being, outside of a tiny parasitic ruling clique, has been enslaved. Some of us are chattel, the rest are slaves to debt. The entire globe has been overrun by the false promises of the prophets of prosperity. This poor lost soul perhaps, as well, as JHK points out.
    Capitalism is a dangerous elixir, now heated to the point that it is ready to explode; and we are sitting on the powder keg. In its death throes capital will launch a killing spree of historic proportions. Millions will be murdered, poisoned, and deprived of lives by way of neglect, deprivation, abuse and torture. Capital will strip the planet of its eons-old carbon layer, burn that carbon for fuel and quarterly profits, warm the planet and acidify the oceans until the Earth becomes uninhabitable. As it continues to self destruct, perhaps ‘the living will envy the dead.’ Let us stop for a moment and rethink our commitment to capital.

  48. Fissile January 10, 2011 at 11:04 am #

    Yup. Wallace lived to the ripe old age of 79, dying in 1998. Toward the end of his life, he apologized for his hateful attitudes — if he was truly sincere, we’ll never know for sure. To be fair, it’s not known how much of what he said in public he actually believed. Early in his political career he was not opposed to integration. It appears that he was just a sleaze politician that said whatever he though the electorate wanted to hear.

  49. Buck Stud January 10, 2011 at 11:05 am #

    “The Speaker of the House’s moments of tender reminiscence are reserved for himself.”
    When a man is wrapped up in himself, he makes a pretty small package.–John Ruskin

  50. suburbanempire January 10, 2011 at 11:05 am #

    I know you are allergic to conspericys, but here we are once again with another political assination attempt, by a babbleing idiot who acted totally alone.
    Isn’t it interesting that it is ALWAYS a lone babbling idiot acting alone when this kind of thing happens in America.
    I can’t recall ANY political assination or attempt that WASNT commited by a lone babbling idiot.
    And allergies or not, it always strikes me as odd that when political assinations and attempts happen, oh I don’t know, ANYWHERE else, they aren’t always commited by some lone nut.
    The Bodder Meinhof, Basque Seperatists, the IRA, the PLO, Drug Cartels… come to think of it, political assinations anywhere else in the world are almost never commited by “a lone nut”….
    Why the discrepency? Not trying to make you sneeze… but just sayin

  51. trouter January 10, 2011 at 11:05 am #

    I worry about the average twenty something adult, who has debts from college, cannot get any work with, say, a political science major, and has no clue of what lies ahead. I am ready to invite local college kids to dinner and a discussion, focusing on the following:
    1. What if your professors are lying and there are no jobs in your field of study when you graduate?
    2. How will you survive if mom and dad [boomers with little or no retirement savings] go broke?
    3. What can you do now to prepare for this kind of future? What survival skills can you develop between now and the time you finish school?
    4. What is your identity other than “student?”
    5. Are you willing to do work that “Americans won’t do” in order to survive?

  52. Mr. Purple January 10, 2011 at 11:06 am #

    If something (assassination, in this case) happens from time to time and is generally known about, you can’t really call it a black swan. Black swans are the things you aren’t expecting to see because you haven’t seen them before.

  53. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 11:08 am #

    “Let us stop for a moment and rethink our commitment to capital.”
    I’ve thought about it. You seem to think capital is evil. I do not. Please relive yourself of the burden of capital by sending your capital to me. Thank you for your patronage.

  54. lbendet January 10, 2011 at 11:08 am #

    Gabrielle Giffords_Marked for Murder:
    Our political dialogue, is tantamount to a Civics War as I have been saying for the past few weeks.
    Our politicians on the right have made statements that if they can’t get something done through the ballot, they’ll do it by the bullet. Sarah Pallin put cross-hairs on the politicians she wanted to beat in the last election including Giffords.
    [From March 21, 2010, the night the House of Representatives passed its sweeping health reform law, a window was smashed in Congresswoman Giffords’s office in Tuscon, the city she has represented in Congress since 2006.
    Posted Jan 8, 2011, 9:52 pm Dylan Smith TucsonSentinel.com Police: ‘Suspicious device’ found at Giffords’ vigil was  non-explosive A suspicious package was discovered at a vigil at Rep. Giffords’ office was found to be non-explosive by the bomb squad, said a police spokesman.
    The package was found about 5 p.m. by a Tucson Police Department officer assigned to a vigil at Rep. Gabrielle Giffords’ office, 1661 N. Swan Rd.
    The crowd—gathered following the killing of six and wounding of 13 others, including the congresswoman—was dispersed to a safe location across the street pending evaluation of the package, said Sgt. Matt Ronstadt.
    TPD’s Explosives and Hazardous Devices Detail responded to evaluate the suspicious package, which was described as a circular metal tin, similar to a “cookie tin.”
    Personnel from the FBI and Secret Service were also on scene, Ronstadt said.
    Officials at a 6 p.m. press conference declined to speculate on the relationship between the device and the shooting earlier in the day.
    The bomb squad found suspicious components inside the device, which was “disrupted in place” by a controlled detonation at about 7:20 p.m.
    An initial analysis indicates that the device was non-explosive, Ronstadt said. The investigation is ongoing, he said.]
    —————————–
    The theme of violence as solution to all problems and whatever gets in your way is endemic in this country. It stems from our global strategy of spreading democracy from the barrel of a gun, spent uranium, white phosphorus and drone attacks. Oh and don’t forget the once infamous Agent Orange made by Monsanto now of monolithic global genetically modified foods fame.
    This idea of creating democratic grafts in the middle east for instance Iraq as the shining city on the hill, (Emerald city, that is) is nothing more than the retooling of the domino theory in reverse. We cannot come up with anything better than that old cold war horse.
    The theme of killing to right wrongs has become the simple solution. I was thinking earlier about the TV shows of my childhood in the 50’s and 60’s when the good guys always came up with a better way to beat the foe, that is better than killing them. Today we see female models-turned actresses vanquishing the foe through amazing physical stunts and cold blooded killing, which is of course OK since guys both like and fear “Kitten with a Whip”. What high standards we have for what goes as entertainment these days.
    The fact is that everyone in this country feels left in the dust, while our politicians fill us with fear of the opposing team and play up to our every fantasy during the show pony elections which has become more like spectator sport than leadership. After they garner our votes they serve the interests of the kleptocracy. We are left with the liberty to fend for ourselves in an entirely unequal paradigm. Once we referred to our country as egalitarian guided by blind justice. After TARP and TBTF there are no illusions that was always an unrealized dream.

  55. Mr. Purple January 10, 2011 at 11:10 am #

    Excellent point! Without the elders looking out for the youngers, you don’t really have a society. Which is really what a lot of corporate “culture” seems to be about these days.

  56. Newfie January 10, 2011 at 11:11 am #

    There are many memes competing for mindshare. Some meme combinations are very toxic. And a few people can’t handle that. Their mind disintegrates. Possible ?

  57. ElleBeMe January 10, 2011 at 11:11 am #

    Well….a good summation of the events. I am not wont to lump all young males into the 20-something toddler category…but their generation does seem to be lacking in some sort of direction.
    While Kunstler concentrated on the young male population…the view of that of young women is far from being any bit better. YOu are either a Kardashian – promoting the grandiose vapid lifestyle of consumption – OR – you are a breeder. A teen girl, indoctrinated with “abstinence” who strayed from the teaching and is having baby after baby after baby. Even celebrity focus is on who is breeding….”bump Watch” I think it is called. I see tabloids at the checkout line and the “STARS” of MTV’s teen mom series are often on the cover….”Is X having another BABY????…who’s the baby daddy????”….the message so many young women receive is…”Make moar baybeez make moar baybeez!!!” ad nausieum. Never mind that children begetting and raising children is a practice in insanity and preordained catastrophe. Where are the female role models?
    It is a VERY sad state of affairs…

  58. Mr. Purple January 10, 2011 at 11:13 am #

    This is a step beyond parenting, which of course is offensive to those who cling to the fantasy that the family unit is the ultimate level of social necessity. Communities that don’t consider what everybody’s kids are going to grow up to do don’t last.

  59. kulturcritic January 10, 2011 at 11:15 am #

    Perfect, J Lee

  60. piltdownman January 10, 2011 at 11:17 am #

    Cash –
    I don’t buy it. What, am I supposed to emulate Tim Horton? Including the part where he died in a high speed crash on the QEW or thereabouts?
    I’ll use this an example of what I don’t buy it.
    30 years ago my wife had a friend who lived just outside Pittsburgh, in a town called Homestead. It was a mill town, known to some for the infamous Homestead Strike. Anyway, at some point, her friend moved to Homestead Heights. Her family thought she was getting uppity.
    You see my point? If people can’t rise above their ignorance, even just a few streets above it, what chance do any of us have?

  61. Mr. Purple January 10, 2011 at 11:20 am #

    Oversized clothing mimics dressing in Dad’s clothes as a little kid. Wearing a baseball cap sideways and/or indoors is a stereotypically little kid behavior. Kind of depressing that you’re so used to it that you can’t see it, huh?

  62. kulturcritic January 10, 2011 at 11:21 am #

    No thanks; i’ll keep what i have left JJ

  63. Cash January 10, 2011 at 11:23 am #

    Again Wage, if the US is an empire I would be one of its oppressed subjects. I’m not. And you ignore the fact that it was the USA, with paltry help from others and at enormous cost, that kept western Europe out of the clutches of the USSR for decades after WW2.
    You think the US is the source of evil. Talk to people that lived through the Soviet occupation of eastern Europe and the resulting oppression and immiserisation or to someone from the Ukraine who’s family was wiped out by Stalin’s genocide (7 million starved to death).
    You have this inflated view of American evil. This is a peculiar American conceit. Trust me, you’re not that evil.
    And you’re not that powerful either. The rest of the world is not afraid of you. For all your military might, you couldn’t defeat the Vietnamese, the Iraqis or the Afghans. And in a short time, despite all the American bluster, Iran will be nuclear armed.

  64. Rick January 10, 2011 at 11:24 am #

    Speaking of college. When I went to college, back in the late 1970’s early 1980’s, college was affordable for a lot of folks, without a loan. No more. And now, if you’re lucky to go to college, there’s nothing when you get out, meaning the jobs don’t exist. Talk about FUBAR!
    BTW, in case you haven’t seen this:
    http://www.thenation.com/article/157434/peak-oil-and-changing-climate
    It’s a great new series, and Jim will appear Jan. 26.

  65. Newfie January 10, 2011 at 11:28 am #

    Inevitable. There are 300 million Americans. Statistically, a few of those are bound to be mentally unstable. Add to that an easy availability of guns, and Presto! This kind of thing is definitely going to happen from time to time. It’s a matter of the laws of probability.

  66. myrtlemay January 10, 2011 at 11:32 am #

    To continue the well made points above, elders do have a responsibility to the next generation. This is not to imply that helping the younger generation is merely an act of pity or largesse. It makes sense on every conceivable level. Who do you think is going to care for you and run things (however large or small they may be) when you are too old or infirm to do it yourself? This used to be known as a social contract, an implied agreement that in order for all members of a society to realize the fullest extent of their lives, spiritually, economically, and otherwise, sacrifices must be made by all groups. This means that if you have children, you must love and care for them consistently. A parent’s ultimate job is to ensure that his offspring can survive without him. In order to accomplish this, a parent must outfit their children with the tools that will guide them in their future. Inherent in this is a moral compass. Knowing when to do something as well as why and how can mean the difference between life and death. Whatever the scale of life holds in the future (there is no doubt that it will be vastly lower along the energy spectrum), it is most advisable that a society remember its inherent obligation to the generations that follow.

  67. DC January 10, 2011 at 11:33 am #

    ” Did anyone else notice that Speaker of the House John Boehner did not shed a tear when issuing his statement about the massacre in Arizona that killed, among others, a nine-year-old girl and left Congresswomen Gabrielle Giffords maimed?”
    Boehner did not cry since he was between Ibogaine hits.

  68. Buck Stud January 10, 2011 at 11:35 am #

    I give Joe the Plumber credit for one thing–he was trying to be a plumber. There is always the need for someone to crawl into a dark ,narrow, space to sweat a joint and fix a pipe. And yet, how many young people are scrambling to enter some dark, moist, hole and do the dirty work of life? And that’s the paradoxical rub, or lack of it should I say. It’s simply not glamorous to roll up the sleeves and drip sweat from a brow for one’s daily bread. The chances of getting laid are much higher selling snowboards in a snowboard shop.
    I do wonder,however,why Jared Lee was being tossed out of school? Was he failing to roll up the sleeves of his intellect and toil for the good life of the mind? A gift, by the way, that in past generations was deemed something worthy to pay for. The polemicists now term it perpetual “debt slavery“. Now if that is not some inflammatory rhetoric to light the fuse of some future incendiary axe-grinder at wallet opening time.
    Yes indeed, how far we have fallen.

  69. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 11:38 am #

    “Communities that don’t consider what everybody’s kids are going to grow up to do…”
    Are the communities where I want to live.
    You go right ahead and live where a bunch of fucktards choose what you kid is going to do. May I suggest China? Or perhaps Cuba?

  70. Cash January 10, 2011 at 11:40 am #

    And there you go: Homestead/milltown/labourers = ignorance.
    That’s exactly the kind of corrosive, insulting talk I’m referring to. Not like the shrieking of the Becks but no less harmful to public discourse.
    I’ll say this: most of my buds from my hometown moved out, many to BC and Alberta, many to Toronto and Hamilton. Nobody felt they had to stay in an economically dying place for fear they’d be seen as “uppity”. So what to make of your wife’s friend? I don’t know.
    The story about Starbuck’s vs Tim’s was just to illustrate how politicians capitalize on people’s perceptions of who’s with them and who’s not.
    Where did I say to emulate Tim Horton? I don’t. I don’t even watch hockey. Not my thing. Feel free to go to Starbucks. I’ve done it and I don’t feel guilty.

  71. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 11:42 am #

    “No thanks; i’ll keep what i have left JJ”
    Hmmm…sounds like you are embracing your little piece of evil. Therein lies your undoing.

  72. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 11:43 am #

    “And yet, how many young people are scrambling to enter some dark, moist, hole and do the dirty work of life?”
    Tons. Its called the porn industry.

  73. noel bodie January 10, 2011 at 11:43 am #

    did anyone notice the canary feathers hanging from fuckindickarmey’s mouth yesterday as he appeared on abc sunday morning talk? good that the camera did not show his hands as we probably would have seen blood. No one one the program denounced him and his Koch(Mr. Potter) money. As one who toiled for 30 yeas in community college class room I can report that probably half of the students don’t have academic skill for college and that they are the new day care centers working to remediate poorly prepared teens, with hopelessly outdated curriculum. How many students at Pima are walking the halls packing heat? Can you imagine the carnage if the people at the strip mall had been packing with Arizona’s concealed carry? it is a wonder more weren’t shot.

  74. kulturcritic January 10, 2011 at 11:46 am #

    Well; none of us can completely go without (read my last book, The Recovery of Ecstasy: Notebooks from Siberia, to find out my position). However, I am living in central Siberia, and am much more in touch with the earth and the struggle to survive than many of my virtual friends back in the Homeland. So, I can live with it!

  75. Smacktle January 10, 2011 at 11:47 am #

    How do you explain Switzerland? Everybody there owns guns.

  76. erikSF99 January 10, 2011 at 11:47 am #

    Suburban Empire said: I know you are allergic to conspericys, but here we are once again with another political assassination attempt, by a babbleing idiot who acted totally alone.
    Isn’t it interesting that it is ALWAYS a lone babbling idiot acting alone when this kind of thing happens in America.
    I can’t recall ANY political assassination or attempt that WASNT commited by a lone babbling idiot.”
    Suburban Empire, I recommend watching “The Parallax View” starring Warren Beatty made in 1974 on this very theme. A great film. It’s available as Instant Viewing on NetFlix (not a plug, just to note it’s easy to see).
    ALSO, as for Political Assassinations in the U.S., there was one very MAJOR one: The murder of Martin Luther King Jr. Read William Pepper’s book “An Act of State – The Execution of Martin Luther King.” as the dust jacket states:
    “In 1999, Loyd Jowers and co-conspirators were brought to trial in a wrongful death civil action suit on behalf of the King family. Seventy witnesses set out the details of a conspiracy in a plot to murder King that involved J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI, Richard Helms and the CIA, the military, local Memphis police and organized crime figures from New Orleans and Memphis. The evidence was unimpeachable. The jury took an hour to find for the King family. But the silence following these shocking revelations was deafening. Like the pattern during all the investigations of the assassination throughout the years, no major media outlet would cover the story. It was effectively buried.”
    http://www.amazon.com/Act-State-Execution-Martin-Luther/dp/B003WUYSF8/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294677422&sr=1-1

  77. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    ” As one who toiled for 30 yeas in community college class room I can report that probably half of the students don’t have academic skill for college and that they are the new day care centers working to remediate poorly prepared teens, with hopelessly outdated curriculum. ”
    If half do not have skills and you are not weeding them out than you are an enabler. What a waste of 30 years.

  78. jporcelli January 10, 2011 at 11:50 am #

    James,
    I grew up in Tucson. I
    I had a neighbor across the street when I was grwoing up
    very similar to Jared. He stole guns, killed neighbors pets and had a completely violent streak that was unchecked for years.
    Well, unfortunately he is no different than John Hinkley or even your typical bomb-vest wearing suicide bomber.
    People forced to the margin, their paranoias poorly informed by mainstream media, neglected by a family
    to overwhelmed with other responsibilities, and then have his mental instability reinforced by the fringe.
    Do I blame suburbia? Partly. I goggle mapped his home, its more or less in the middle of nowhere, near nothing. nothing other than commercial strip malls for miles.
    link: http://tinyurl.com/4txdbng
    As you say, if there is a lesson, its not about vitriolic talk in the media, its most likely about the fact he may have had no access to health care and lived isolated in a soulless tract housing subdivision, removed from society.
    If he didn’t have a car, what did he have access to?
    What he did have access to was the internet and guns.
    What he didn’t have access to was a community and health care.
    We haven’t heard a word about his parents or family life, I am sure it will be underwhleming revealing.
    Middle income home, maybe some libertarian views, but more or less he was left on his own after being denied access to the only two institutions made available to most kids
    living in sprawl: Community College or the Military. He was denied both.
    What was left for him in a town like Tucson, stranded on the NW side of town?
    Did he know of any industry he could apprentice in?
    Are there any?
    Did he have a creative side left utterly undeveloped or unexposed to creative professions?
    More importantly, did he have access to health care after being dropped from college and denied entry into the army?

  79. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 11:50 am #

    “(read my last book, The Recovery of Ecstasy: Notebooks from Siberia, to find out my position).”
    No thanks.

  80. kulturcritic January 10, 2011 at 11:55 am #

    “No thanks.”
    And therein, my dear JJ, lies your undoing!!! LOL Ha Ha Ha!!!!!

  81. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 11:55 am #

    “Do I blame suburbia? Partly.”
    Yeah, if this clown had lived in the big city he would never have developed his neurosis. I mean, like I never hear people walking around talking to and soiling themselves in the big city. That only happens in Kansas to people related to Dorothy.

  82. erikSF99 January 10, 2011 at 11:59 am #

    Cash said:
    “You have this inflated view of American evil. This is a peculiar American conceit. Trust me, you’re not that evil.
    “And you’re not that powerful either. The rest of the world is not afraid of you. For all your military might, you couldn’t defeat the Vietnamese, the Iraqis or the Afghans. And in a short time, despite all the American bluster, Iran will be nuclear armed.”
    And why was it we were trying to “defeat” the Vietnamese, Iraqis and Afghans? Exactly what DID those Vietnamese do to us that made us send 50,000 Americans do their death and kill 3,400,000 Vietnamese (MacNamara’s own estimate)?
    And the Iraqis who had nothing to do with 9-11 and had no weapons of mass destruction? Exactly what DID those Iraqis do to deserve sanctions which killed 500,000 of their children and what did they do to deserve to have their land destroyed by bombing and poisoned by depleted uranium and have a million of its citizen killed and millions sent into exile?
    And what did the Afghans exactly do to receive their war punishment? The Taliban offered to hand over Osama Bin Laden if the U.S would provide evidence of his crimes. The U.S. declined to do so.
    Cash, you are in serious need of a history check. Go to http://killinghope.org/ Buy William Blum’s book “Killing Hope” – you can read whole chapters at his website. America is an Empire and it is doing and has been doing very bad things for a very long time. And certainly these bad things are decidedly NOT done for the purpose of providing or defending freedom.

  83. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 11:59 am #

    “What he didn’t have access to was a community and health care.”
    Really? You mean like all those who have come forward that seemed to know him in high school? Like that kind of community? And how many of them, who said he was an OK guy until he discovered drugs in his junior year and thats when he started going down hill?

  84. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 12:02 pm #

    “And therein, my dear JJ, lies your undoing!!! LOL Ha Ha Ha!!!!!”
    Not really. I just choose not to read a book by some guy who sits around, laughing out loud (while completely alone) at his own, imagined humor.
    But thats just me. I’m certain millions of others have found your book to be fascinating.

  85. wagelaborer January 10, 2011 at 12:26 pm #

    Exactly, J Lee.
    It reminds me of the scene in “Bowling for Columbine”, when one of the parents is standing in his place of employment, in front of an enormous cruise missile, expressing total bafflement at how anyone could possibly be insane enough to kill another person.
    This cognitive dissonance, living the the US, where over half of all our tax dollars go to pay for a military and countless weapons of mass destruction, where it is considered our absolute right to invade other people’s countries, kill their children, poison their land and water, take their stuff, if our leaders decree it necessary.
    And the reasons it is “necessary” to kill millions of other people?
    They want a planned economy instead of a free market one, they want to choose their own leader instead of the ones we deem suitable, if we don’t kill them now, they might someday come and kill us, we think that they are planning to someday maybe build a weapon similar to the ones we stockpile by the thousands, and that is intolerable, etc.,etc.,etc.
    Gosh! What on earth made Jared snap! This young man must be deranged! Or schizophrenic!

  86. sgage January 10, 2011 at 12:29 pm #

    No one has mentioned that Loughner had tried to enlist in the Army, but was refused. The Army will not say why (which is supposedly standard procedure). Even the Army could tell this guy was a bit tightly wrapped.
    In other news, jimjim, you are really a trollish jerk.

  87. wagelaborer January 10, 2011 at 12:36 pm #

    That was a beautiful piece of writing, KC.
    I agree with your sentiments completely.
    Some of the tough talk of the posters today seem out of touch with reality.
    Just get out of the basement and go get a job, young people!
    There are not enough “jobs” for all able bodied people.
    The sensible thing to do would be to divide up the work needed to be done to make a decent life for all between all available labor power.
    Everyone would then have work and everyone would have a decent standard of living.
    But this common sense solution is unthinkable here in the land of magical thinking.

  88. Moondog January 10, 2011 at 12:37 pm #

    Hey Newfie,
    Thanks for your spot on observations regarding the American penchant for gun nuttery. It is an essential aspect of the tragedy that seems to be given short shrift, and noticeably absent from Jim’s screed this week.
    I appreciate your perspective, like I enjoy Bob Hallett’s eloquent “Journeys.” Check out the blog:http://www.greatbigsea.com/about/GBS_BobsJourneys.aspx and Kunstler fans will likely enjoy his 2010 essays as they relate to the “geography of nowhere” themes, from a sharp, witty and intelligent Newfoundland perspective.
    “There isn’t that much distance between Boston and St. John’s.”

  89. Consultant January 10, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    Jim,
    On target as usual.
    One psychotic killer a year, a tragic situation.
    A steady stream of mass murder, one very sick nation addicted to violence.
    We know who we are.

  90. Cash January 10, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

    America is an Empire – Erik
    Well then. It neglected something really important if it really is an empire. And that’s to conquer the land area immediately to the north (where I live). Big ommission, that.
    Canada is the world’s richest land mass, with mind boggling stands of timber, oil deposits, fertile land, fresh water, wide open spaces and everything that an evil empire like the US could want.
    So why didn’t you conquer us? It would have been history’s easiest conquest. The worst hazard? Slipping on the ice and maybe our heart clogging poutine (fries with cheese curds and gravy).
    Many have said that the US gets everything it wants from us so that’s the proof that you conquered us.
    No it ain’t. You BUY the stuff you want, you don’t steal it. We make a damn good living selling you commodities and not only that but manufactured goods. There isn’t an American General in Ottawa telling our Prime Minister what to do, there aren’t American GIs swaggering on our steets pushing us around, our taxes flow to Ottawa and provincial capitols not Washington and state capitols, Americans don’t have the run of the place, if they want to live here they either apply to become citizens or do like Mexicans and work here illegally.
    Wait, but profits flow south to the US from Canada to the US by way of your evil multinationals. Yes, they do and profits flwo north from Canadian businesses operating in the US. We have as much money invested in the US as Americans have invested up here. And I spent years working in Canada for American multinationals. I was well paid and respected.
    The US committed evils, no question, but your evils come ankle high to horrors committed by truly evil imperial powers like Germany, Japan and Russia and those the Chinese leadership inflicted on its own people.
    I find it puzzling that people look at the evils committed by the US and are oblivious to the huge service rendered by the US especially to Europe. The French detest you. But I would say to them if not for the US Army stopping the westward march of the Red Army, French fine wines and cheese wouldn’t be consumed by the French, they’d be going to the nomenklatura in Russia. The French would be eating cabbage and potatoes like the rest of the people the Russians conquered.

  91. helen highwater January 10, 2011 at 12:48 pm #

    In reply to jimjim’s comment in which he says “”Communities that don’t consider what everybody’s kids are going to grow up to do…”
    Are the communities where I want to live.
    You go right ahead and live where a bunch of fucktards choose what you kid is going to do. May I suggest China? Or perhaps Cuba?”
    That sums up the attitude of most Americans right there. I will do what I want to do, my kids will do what they want to do, and nobody in the community better tell us anything. If they do they are fucktards.

  92. era vulgaris January 10, 2011 at 12:52 pm #

    Great post. I have 4 sons and am working hard to steer them away from the cubicle life of debt servitude. Many of their friends and acquaintances are locked into the video game til the wee hours life. These kids’ parents are typically the ones that will push them into the college track expecting the same outcome- go to school, get a degree, get a job, get a house- that they had. Few of them get the changes afoot.

  93. noel bodie January 10, 2011 at 12:55 pm #

    you have no idea… take it as you will

  94. GenConc January 10, 2011 at 12:56 pm #

    Why won’t anyone explore the sickness that is pervading our culture and our young people? Is it too frightening?

    Where’s the profit in doing that?
    There’s money to be made in violent action videos. There’s money to be make in sensationalist news reporting: 3000 people died in 9/11 terror attack! Meanwhile tens of thousands die annually in car accidents. Ho-hum.

  95. Steve M. January 10, 2011 at 12:59 pm #

    As a matter of fact, my mother DID notice that Boehner didn’t cry over Giffords.

  96. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 1:01 pm #

    “In other news, jimjim, you are really a trollish jerk.”
    Oh Darn.
    My day is just ruined ;.)

  97. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 1:06 pm #

    Hardly Lowurine,
    The quote was:
    “Communities that don’t consider what everybody’s kids are going to grow up to do…”
    Now do you actually believe that communities should consider ” what everybody’s kids are going to grow up to do…” is a valid, remotely workable concept? For fuck’s sake are you bat-shit crazy?

  98. turkle January 10, 2011 at 1:08 pm #

    Too much coffee this morning jimjim?

  99. dfb51 January 10, 2011 at 1:09 pm #

    Jim, Please. John Boehner? What do you suggest, he break into big crocodile tears like Bill Clinton when the camera caught him yucking it up at poor Ronnie Brown’s funeral procession?
    Thanks for justifying this sick moron’s actions by portraying him as some intellectual wonderboy.
    Probably had a copy of World Made by Hand near that Occult Devil Worshipping Shrine in his back yard. No Bible thumper to blame Jim?

  100. turkle January 10, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    Reuters headline read this morning.
    “Is America growing politically unstable?”
    Gee, ya think?

  101. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 1:11 pm #

    Too little grey matter this morning, turkey-lurkey?

  102. turkle January 10, 2011 at 1:14 pm #

    Johnny plays Grand Theft Auto and gets points for running over old ladies in wheelchairs.
    Johnny sees thousands of simulated murders every year interspersed with SUV commercials.
    Johnny listens to gangster rap which talks about inserting caps in various unmentionable bodily locations.
    Johnny can get a shotgun at the Walmart.
    And then we seem to act all surprised when Johnny decides to go postal IRL.
    Yeah, it is all a big mystery.

  103. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 1:15 pm #

    Hey Moron here is a quote from the source you cited:
    “So it’s disturbing that some in Congress are already working on new laws to limit political speech, in addition to ongoing attacks on talk radio. Those efforts, if they move toward limiting legitimate expression, should worry global investors far more than a one-off lunatic act, however shocking its results.”
    Gee, ya think? (Obviously not)

  104. turkle January 10, 2011 at 1:15 pm #

    No job this morning, jimmmyjim?

  105. Patrizia January 10, 2011 at 1:17 pm #

    What do you expect from a society that has no consideration for humanity?
    Where a bunch of crooks can decide if millions have a house or something to eat, while sharing billions of dollars in bonuses, living better than kings and not even being ashamed of it?
    In a society where the worst crimes against humanity (because condemning people to misery is almost as killing them) are not only unpunished, but prized?
    If you grow up in a reality where the human life is considered nothing, you can expect much worse than this.
    The surprising thing is that episodes like this are rare…

  106. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 1:18 pm #

    As opposed to you cleaning out Mommy’s basement?

  107. oliver January 10, 2011 at 1:22 pm #

    Why does anyone imagine that society and culture are somehow worse today than a decade or 10 decades ago? C’mon, this nation ripped apart and killed each other by the state loads. And we still dumped on black people. And just across the border they are killing tens of thousands and chopping off heads. Why all the hand wringing over a congressman and judge? Oh, don’t forget about the Puerto Rican terrorists that put a hit on congress inside the capitol building last century and were pardoned by one Billy Clinton on his way out of the WH. The carnage is not new and will never go away. Grow up people.

  108. Smokyjoe January 10, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    Admitting that the kid was screwed up mentally hardly offers him any dignity.
    And calling him a “twerp” won’t bring back the dead or heal the wounded.
    We’ve a toxic culture; in it, crazy or desperate people do toxic things. The kid might have been helped with meds and counseling, but it’s too late for that. Unlike the VA Tech shooter, who was clearly marked by several faculty and ignored by a bumbling group of administrators, this kid came out of nowhere, at least as far as we know now.
    I’ve turned off the news but I figure we’ll find out.
    Cold comfort.

  109. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    “What do you expect from a society that has no consideration for humanity?”
    Patrizia, this statement is far too broad brushed. You seem to care. Are you not a member of this society? Who can you cite that “prizes” people being condemmed to “misery?” I do not know of a single person that ascribes to this and I doubt you do either.
    I think the MAJORITY of people that make up this society have a high regard for humanity. Unfortunately, the percentile that does not gets all the attention and takes up all the oxygen in the room.
    When your fantasies give the minority the status of the majority you have started down a dark path.

  110. Cash January 10, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    Remember the race riots of the 1960s (dozens of cities), the riots at the 1968 Democratic National Convention, the huge anti Vietnam war protests, the intense inter-generational animosities of the 60s, the Kent State killings, the JFK, RFK, MLK assassinations, the Cuban missile crisis, McCarthyism in the 1950s and the fears over communist infiltration and nuclear war.
    And then there was Carlos the Jackal, the Red Army Faction/Baader Meinhof Gang and the Red Brigades. Remember the 1972 Munich Olympics Massacre?
    Plus ca change. There’s nothing new under the sun.

  111. willow January 10, 2011 at 1:27 pm #

    Dear Jim, what an essay. Thank you. The truth is a subtle knife, and to use it, one must remember to remember balance and attention.
    What a load of crap the paper of record NYT dished out for us today. Not one comment unexpected, bold, or helpful. Pablum for the lumpen.
    Former AZ congressman John Shadegg, when asked to comment on the shooting on NPR’s “All Things Considered” opined, “Well, there’s a lot of anger in this state on the failure of Government to secure our borders.”
    His first thought, to somehow blame insecure borders & of course that famous stalking horse, the government. Like pointing your finger at a Black Hole to explain nihilism.
    As you point out, Jim, Speaker of the House Boner (as I prefer to label him) can shed tears for himself, but dry-eyed delivered his little homily to the memory of Gabby.
    John McCain called the shooter “a disgrace to himself, to our state, and to our country.” What I couldn’t help thinking was, it’s a disgrace that you Mr. McCain are so against universal health care, because the shooter was very ill, and this whole tragedy could have been averted if this young man had gotten the medical care he so desperately needed.
    The community college he attended before he was kicked out knew he was ill–the U.S. Army refused to accept him for enlistment–yet instead of treatment, he was allowed to buy a gun.
    Universal healthcare and a ban on handguns. Wouldn’t it be nice.

  112. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    ” Unlike the VA Tech shooter, who was clearly marked by several faculty…”
    Better turn the news back on Smoky. This guy had been singled out by a professor for continually disrupting his class. He caused enough trouble that the school he was attending told him he would have to seek counseling for evaluation if he wished to continue attending classes.

  113. RanchLady January 10, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    For a deep politics perspective on this shooting of not only Giffords but Federal Judge Roll, check out this Foreign Intelligence Service Report:
    http://www.eutimes.net/2011/01/top-us-federal-judge-assassinated-after-threat-to-obama-agenda/

  114. turkle January 10, 2011 at 1:31 pm #

    Momma jokes…that’s all you got?
    Pathetic.

  115. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 1:32 pm #

    Sheesh. you want to scold the AZ congressman for blaming the borders for this incident and then you go ahead and blame the lack of Universal Healthcare. You’re kidding, right?

  116. dubiousfacts January 10, 2011 at 1:33 pm #

    Whoever said these are the death throes of capitalism as it scrapes the bottom of the energy and environmental support barrel is correct. There is nowhere to go but down and people sense this in their gut. We have reached the point of maximum exploitation of the earth and our fellow humans. Is the for-profit education system that puts young people in a cubicle for a lifetime of swindling each other while tithing most of their earnings back to the system that put them there any different than medieval serfdom? (Unless they get sick from the toxic food and surroundings, in which case the slaveowners will be glad to bankrupt you and collect a nice insurance payment for one more dead peasant).
    Its called the death of hope and the tipping point was the Coup d’Etat of November 1963 when the permanent war economy that maximizes returns to the Capitalists really took over this country.

  117. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

    Lack of job jokes…that’s all you got?
    Less than pathetic. (At least Momma jokes are funny. Especially, as in your case, when they happen to be true. That is what makes them funny.)

  118. ubs January 10, 2011 at 1:35 pm #

    I don’t think it is advisable to draw conclusions on the general state of American society from a single, highly publicized incident. A better approach might be to take a closer look at crime statistics.

  119. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 1:38 pm #

    Dubiousfacts? No shit.

  120. dubiousfacts January 10, 2011 at 1:39 pm #

    Oh, and thanks “Sportsmans” Warehouse for supplying the lethally efficient murder tool to a sleazy psycho scumbag. Sure, step right up, who’s the next “sportman”?

  121. turkle January 10, 2011 at 1:41 pm #

    “when they happen to be true”
    Whatever.
    And you ARE pathetic. What is this, your tenth user account on this website? You’re like a dog that comes back to eat its own vomit.
    Methinks you need a new hobby, but, hey, it is no skin off my back.
    Smell ya later.

  122. The Mook January 10, 2011 at 1:48 pm #

    People with no job, or those in front of computers at work, talk about Jared. Those producing and sweating at work, talk about Peyton, Ben, Michael, Auburn, etc. before the whistle blows and during break. No time to bust up a Starbucks for the 30% who still “work”. Get some fucking “jobs” back in this country and make these little fuckers learn how to work again.

  123. Pepper Spray January 10, 2011 at 1:48 pm #

    While today politicians are busy condemning the violence against them and calling for increased security to protect them from these acts, I think they would be better served to think twice before continuing the anal rape of Americans. It might go a long way to keep people from wanting to shoot them.
    Just a thought.

  124. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 1:53 pm #

    “Smell ya later.”
    I’m sure you will try to.

  125. davidl January 10, 2011 at 1:56 pm #

    Nice comment, Jim. You often say that young American men “today” are infantile, as though they have only recently become this way. I believe, upon reflection, that American males going all the way back to the initial invaders of North America and the conquerers of the national territory were just as baby-like. One of your readers says that our society is currently a “get in, get out with wahatever you can” society. Hasn’t America always been that way? We invaded a place where the indigenous people had successfully lived and BUILT UP resources for ten thousand years, and in a mere four hundred years we have gotten in, looted the place, and gotten out. Part of today’s madness has to do with the fact that there is nothing left to loot, so, I suppose, we are left with no alternative but to loot — and shoot — each other.

  126. turkle January 10, 2011 at 2:00 pm #

    Can’t help it.
    Because you stink.
    Bye now.

  127. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 2:06 pm #

    “Because you stink.”
    Oh no. How can you be this mean? You are so hurtful. (And obviously finished cleaning up mom’s basement as you have signed off.)

  128. old6699 January 10, 2011 at 2:09 pm #

    The Health Kare Reform
    The right wing always wins, there is no left. When Bush wanted to bomb Irak, everyone was with him, he said either you are part of the solution or part of the problem, either you are with us or against us, friend or enemy, there is no middle ground. And everyone said, yes, he has a backbone, lets go with the “winner”, Bush, the right wing that is not afraid of the conflict, the confrontation.
    Obama with Healh Kare should have done exactly the same: he should have said there will be a very simple single payer health kare system, paid by government through taxes upon the rich. A total government system free for all but paid by the rich and banks and all those billions of dollars in the banks not doing anything. Then if you want your own private hospital or health kare, well there is the free market where anyone can charge anything and anyone can buy anything, who cares. And he should have said you are either part of the solution or part of the problem, either you are with us or against us, friend or enemy, there is no middle ground. The health kare reform would have been one sentence : “one single payer government system free for all.”
    And he should have said we will slash doctors pay if necessary, nurses pay if necessary, etc.
    And in fact there is no middle ground, either it is government single payer or it is private, he wanted to compromise, he wanted to find “common ground”, there is no “common ground”, there are only conflicts, winners or losers, rich or poor. Take it or leave it.
    Then if he couldn’t pass this only real possible reform, then he should have punched them all in the face, just like Bush did, he punched all the opposition in the face when attacking Irak, and they all obeyed Bushes command. Punch them and the American people all in the face and say: if you don’t want the single payer system, then go to hell everyone, let the private hospitals and doctors and drug companies and nurses, and insurances hike the prices up as much as they want, hike them up so most poor people can’t afford it anymore, if some slob goes in the emergency room, the health kare thieves can take their homes, make them pay 5 figure numbers for everything. And in fact I hope the system collapses, I hope they keep on all hiking the prices of it all forever, that is what they deserve, so stupid, such total morons…
    The left doesn’t understand that people suck, they are bad, that you have to fight head on, crush the enemy, crush the opposition to make the weaker part of society win, there is no compromise, the is no common ground, only fights, winners or losers.

  129. Jerry McManus January 10, 2011 at 2:13 pm #

    I’m surprised Jim didn’t mention the military as a “rite of passage” into adulthood.
    In fact, I’ve seen reports that Jared Lee applied for the army and was turned down. Just think, he could have been happily greasing Afghan civilians right now. And celebrated as a national hero for doing it!
    Granted that’s not exactly the best prep for a career as a Wal-Mart greeter or cubicle drone …
    Cheers,
    Jerry

  130. jackieblue2u January 10, 2011 at 2:20 pm #

    JHK writes:
    This is a culture, lately, with no room whatsoever for tenderness.
    nail on the head.
    very troubling and sickening. it IS making US all sick.
    TRY A LITTLE TENDERNESS just came to mind.
    3 Dog Night
    I grew up in the California Bay Area. I acted tough, like a macho guy actually. I hated tenderness myself.
    It is a hard thing to grow out of, but I did.
    I don’t think we can get thru to the young gangsters tho.
    I see GANGS as one of the most if not THE most problems we face here in California and other places to be sure.

  131. jackieblue2u January 10, 2011 at 2:24 pm #

    You were first AND second.
    Your lucky day.
    Excellent Post JHK IMHO.

  132. jackieblue2u January 10, 2011 at 2:33 pm #

    I’ve always been amazed that this sort of thing doesn’t happen more often. When you factor in the sheer size of our population and how dysfunctional so many people are, it’s a shock that we don’t have an assassination-a-week.
    Yes I agree. We probably will be seeing more as time goes on tho. Hope not.

  133. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 2:33 pm #

    “A total government system free for all but paid by the rich and banks and all those billions of dollars…”
    Well then it isn’t free. If it is paid for it isn’t free. Its paid for. And you seem to think that as long as someone else is paying for it (heaven forbid you should contribute) that it is free.
    Do you also believe in the tooth fairy and Santa? Just curious.

  134. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 2:36 pm #

    “I’ve always been amazed that this sort of thing doesn’t happen more often.”
    But it does not. It is rare. But then you say:
    “We probably will be seeing more as time goes on tho. Hope not.”
    What leads you to this conclusion?

  135. jerry January 10, 2011 at 2:41 pm #

    James, your cogent and thoughtful piece spoke directly to truth. Our young people are falling into mental illness, and create fantasies about killing, etc.
    Because our government has done little to bring young people into a sustainable workforce, as our grandparents had when they landed here from other places, we have a culture of young people who have no identity as they enter into adulthood. They remain immature, and adolescent in their thinking and belief systems.
    The Obamadier spoke about making our economy and workforce competitive in the world, which really means cut wages and benefits, and create a rising workforce indebted to the credit card companies, and the bankstas, who now rule the White House, in order to sustain a consumer lifestyle.
    It will only get worse, I believe.
    http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

  136. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 2:45 pm #

    “Because our government has done little to bring young people into a sustainable workforce, as our grandparents had when they landed here from other places…”
    Your grandparents had nothing of the sort. They had nothing waiting for them except the sweat of their brows.

  137. San Jose Mom 51 January 10, 2011 at 2:58 pm #

    Jackieblue,
    I agree with you about the gangs in California being a problem. Last year, San Jose had 20 homicides — most of the murders were attributed to gang activity. Yet here we are just days into the new year and San Jose has had FIVE homicides. Not sure if they are all gang related, but all of the dead are latino.
    It’s been a strange week, I went out to get the mail on Wednesday and there was a huge VULTURE perching on the lightpole above my mailbox. I’ve lived here 20 years and have seen falcons,ducks and egrets, but NEVER a vulture. I took it as a bad sign. The next morning there was a gang tag on the street pole. Our neighborhood has never been tagged before.
    I know I’m getting all woo woo weird about this, and I’ve probably read too much Carlos Castanada. But still, what an odd beginning to the year.
    Take care,
    SJmom

  138. Bustin J January 10, 2011 at 2:59 pm #

    Noam Chomsky: loved his commentary as always: government will just fiddle as Rome burns.
    http://WWW.THENATION.COM/ARTICLE/157434/PEAK-OIL-AND-CHANGING-CLIMATE
    Whats up with young men?
    Chomsky: “(what government is doing) is discounting the future.”
    On a personal level, I think it is plain to see that no one is sacrificing. No one is really changing their attitudes or beliefs. Everyone realizes that nothing they do is sustainable.
    The effect of putting off solving or even tackling all the problems since 1963 is that they have now become a huge psychological burden on the young, especially young men.
    In the past, young men had their gaze fixed on the future since they expected to bear some responsibility for its stewardship. Not anymore. There is no future.
    How does one relate to the plight of kids today?
    Most adults lie to children, every day, from sunup to sundown.
    It is an inevitable right of passage for young people today to finally see the crack in that ediface and then deal with the unfolding horror that is the fact that their future is already gone.
    It boggles my mind how evil and insidious it is, to methodically and deliberately destroy childrens’ futures.
    That is just icing on the shit-cake.
    How evil is it to simply erode and destroy the environment?
    This generation’s youth is facing a clusterfuck its adults do not seem to grasp if only because they are so busy lying to themselves and their children about it.
    The same problems in the 1960s and 1970s had an air of solvability just because the effects weren’t immediate. There was room for optimism. No more- there is no more optimism. This pressure is simply cracking young minds wide open.
    Its a simple arithmetic: no future = mental illness.
    Motivation? For what?
    Drive? For what?
    Production?
    There is no place in the system to insert yourself and feel good about it if you are not a complete denialist idiot. If you know whats going on, all the holocaust education you got in elementary school comes back- you know what your role is expected to be: stoke to fire burning your future away.
    Whats left for desperate people?

  139. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 3:11 pm #

    Jimmie sez:
    “I doubt that the young shooter, Jared Lee Loughner, will turn out to be affiliated with the Tea Party or any other established political faction.”
    Interesting sentence. If you doubt he will be affiliated with an established political faction (of any sort) why single out the Tea Party?

  140. asia January 10, 2011 at 3:13 pm #


    JHK,
    The BIG news of 2011 is ’11 is a:
    ‘Population milestone’,7,000,000,000
    Billion with a B!

  141. asia January 10, 2011 at 3:16 pm #

    Naaa, in 1911 guys usually didnt postpone ‘adulthood’ till 30 y.o.a. and getting an advanced degree!
    they may have lived at home with the extended family but adolescence wasnt ‘ till 33’.

  142. asia January 10, 2011 at 3:19 pm #

    nothing in politics happens by accident..gee who said that?

  143. turkle January 10, 2011 at 3:20 pm #

    Except the GI Bill, The Housing Act of 1950, The New Deal, etc.

  144. Loveandlight January 10, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

    It must be unbelievably difficult for a young person to make sense of such an incoherent environment and such cruel swindling culture. A society that habitually and incessantly lies to itself is apt to choke to death on its internal contradictions.
    Despite how often you’ve really pissed me off, this is why I keep coming back: There are just times when you hit the nail on the head with a {SMACK!} that reverberates into the universe and eternity.

  145. asia January 10, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

    ‘Jared Lee’…why waste yr time trying to figure out JL?

  146. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

    The Liberal/Leftist Establishment disgraced itself over the weekend in a frenzied rush to judgment; a desperate attempt to tie this kid in with the Tea Party. It was truly amazing – within minutes after the story was announced, the whole internut lit up in a frenzied liberal war dance – all for nothing. Now most posters on this site have calmed down a bit but not you – you are still at it! Get a clue. You folks lost alot of credibility over the weekend. Since you all don’t care much about truth but only perception – consider it a crushing defeat. If you are still capable of shame you should feel some. The Revolution has been hurt, comrade. We expect better.

  147. asia January 10, 2011 at 3:24 pm #

    JC’s are NOT intended for the intellectually inclined [ftards]

  148. asia January 10, 2011 at 3:25 pm #

    ‘ truly amazing ‘…not in the least!!!!!!!!!!

  149. turkle January 10, 2011 at 3:28 pm #

    Most people in the “Greatest Generation” worked for the US government fighting WWII or making weapons stateside. Before that, they were given jobs by the government as part of the New Deal during the Great Depression, without which many would have been destitute and homeless.
    After WWII, they came home to a free education provided by the GI Bill and cheap housing guaranteed by The Housing Act of 1950. The government also undertook massive public works projects during the 1950’s that employed millions, including the building of the interstate highway system.
    Now they benefit (probably more than any generation has or will) from Social Security and Medicare.
    And that’s just the “evil gubment” stuff I know of off the top of my head.
    So much for that whole pulled-themselves-up-by-their bootstraps theory.

  150. Loveandlight January 10, 2011 at 3:30 pm #

    No more- there is no more optimism. This pressure is simply cracking young minds wide open.
    I’m 43 years old, and I can feel it starting to crack my mind wide open! In Wisconsin where I live, everybody’s all fired up about the fact that the Green Bay Crackers…oops, I mean “Packers”…have a shot at the Superbowl. On my way home on the bus last night (which I almost missed because the idiot driver was three minutes early), I was wondering how people can get so excited about such trivialties. Then I realized that’s how dumb people keep their mind from cracking wide open at the utter, manifest horror of it all.

  151. turkle January 10, 2011 at 3:31 pm #

    Escapism.

  152. turkle January 10, 2011 at 3:33 pm #

    Yup.

  153. k-dog January 10, 2011 at 3:39 pm #

    It must be unbelievably difficult for a young person to make sense of such an incoherent environment and such cruel swindling culture. A society that habitually and incessantly lies to itself is apt to choke to death on its internal contradictions.

    .
    Perhaps it wont be so difficult now.
    The Series
    1/12: Richard Heinberg
    1/19: Nicole Foss
    1/26: James Howard Kunstler
    2/2: Dmitry Orlov
    2/9: Noam Chomsky
    2/16: Bill McKibben
    2/23: Greg Palast

  154. bproman January 10, 2011 at 3:44 pm #

    ” America, where are you now…. ” – Steppenwolf

  155. Buck Stud January 10, 2011 at 3:48 pm #

    Vlad,
    You think the shooter has to have a Tea Party tattoo on his chest in order to prove he heard the message? How many young men do you know in angst over currencies? I wonder how he ever became obsessed over currencies, or where he heard the message, certainly not on FM radio.
    By the way, I heard Inspector Clouseau is looking for an apprentice.
    As far as credibility goes I’ll echo those famous lyrics: “Doesn’t mean that much to me, to mean that much to you.”

  156. turkle January 10, 2011 at 3:49 pm #

    How often in an American movie do you see a protagonist deal with their problems by seeking mental health care, as opposed to using a gun or their fists to “solve” it?
    People claim that movies and video games have no effect on the psyche. But this boggles the mind. How could watching or participating in thousands of simulated murders and other acts of violence NOT have some kind of deleterious effect on the human mind?
    No one could argue, “Fox News doesn’t have any effect on people’s political views.” Clearly, the statement is false. Media has a huge influence on how we think about the world.
    Young males pick up the idea very early that the way to solve their problems is through violent action. All that is needed after this inculcation is the means and opportunity and maybe a little push over the edge from real world circumstances.
    I’m not saying that violent media cause these events entirely, but the saturation of American media with violent acts definitely adds fuel to the fire.
    Also, I believe we set up many children for disillusionment. “You can be anything you want to be,” we tell them.
    Instead, how about, “You better start thinking about what you want to do for a living, because its tough out there.”
    Not everyone gets to be an astronaut.
    There are jobs out there. The H1B visa program still brings in thousands from outside the US, because companies argue that there aren’t enough Americans to fill openings for technical positions.
    Now, I’m not a big fan of H1B. But why aren’t Americans getting this technical training so that it would be clear and obvious that they could be employed in these jobs?

  157. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2011 at 3:49 pm #

    Gangs? White Nazi Gangs? Or are they even Americans at all? Why not see them as INADERS?

  158. turkle January 10, 2011 at 3:56 pm #

    What’s your point, Vladdie?

  159. JonathanSS January 10, 2011 at 3:56 pm #

    Escapism is right. The most meaningful sentence for me to come out of JHK’s essay was:
    “The country faces grave problems and most of the political noise rises not from the agony of facing them, but from the desperate efforts to avoid or deflect them.”
    It was interesting this week on “The McLaughlin Group” that panelist Monica Crowley, who never misses a chance to bash Obama, made a prediction for 2011. She said that the price of oil rising to $4.00/gal. this year (which seems accurate), will become a political liability for the President. And she says it with that annoying smirk.
    Unfortunately, I think she is right, as some people go out of their way to scapegoat and blame rather than look in the mirror and examine their own actions.

  160. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2011 at 3:58 pm #

    He seems to have had a fixation on this paticular Senator for his own weird reasons. As far as the Currency: yes finally you people are getting it – decades (many) after the Fed pulled the biggest scam in history. We tried to tell you but were mocked to scorn by your Murrows, Lippmans, and Cronkites. You Libtard Socialists bought it all and now you still think you have the moral highground. That’s how to bring down a Nation – tickle the fancy and ego of the educated-beyond-their-capacity that they are the superior ones. You all have turned out to be the biggest idiots and dupes in human history.

  161. endofworld January 10, 2011 at 3:59 pm #

    we all know it is that freakin G W Bush’s fault!

  162. Qbala January 10, 2011 at 4:01 pm #

    James, I am halfway through the first of your books “Geography of Nowhere” and cannot put it down. What an incredible read! I placed it as a recommended read on our website: http://www.bikede.org (scroll down a bit)
    I look forward to the rest of your books. You are a captivating writer and thank you many times over. If you haven’t already, I recommend you read “Divorce Your Car” by Alvord: http://www.newsociety.com/bookid/3683
    Sorry this comment isn’t necessarily related to the post. I must say, this incident can easily be attributed to our “geography of nowhere”.

  163. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2011 at 4:07 pm #

    At one point during the madness, Jared Taylor and American Renaisssance was mentioned by Fox News as a possible link. No one seems to know if this came from DHS or not. Perhaps the weekend person over there at DHS got confused since they both have the same name and they are both “baddies”. The emotional mammilian brain has a tendency to screw up not only thinking but memory. I think we got some cross-linkage here. This level of competence sure makes one feel secure.

  164. JonathanSS January 10, 2011 at 4:08 pm #

    Listen Vlad, I’m tired of you and your fellow thinkers combining the words liberal and retard into Libtard. I deal with low functioning high school students that have autistism and other mental conditions. Be an adult and stop the name calling.
    I’ve also noticed that those that react the most emotionally on this forum, tend to use the most profanity. Profanity is the language used by a bankrupt mind.

  165. turkle January 10, 2011 at 4:09 pm #

    Without fiat currency, America (probably the world) would have collapsed economically years ago.
    And then you get into calling other people the L-word and the S-word, which is typical Vlad. Don’t bother presenting facts. Let’s just call people names.
    Most everyone is a socialist of one kind or another. The Democrats tend towards socialism in domestic policy. The Republicons like the American government’s lavish military empire and its prison and law enforcement systems. So they both love big, centralized government of some kind.
    BTW, do you think it is a coincidence that the countries with the highest standards of living are strongly and brazenly socialist?
    Sweden, Germany, Japan, etc. all show up in the top countries in terms of quality of life, and their governments are socialist. Modern, functional governments tend towards socialism.
    It doesn’t matter if you add “tard” after “lib.” Facts are facts.
    Like I said before, if you don’t like it, why don’t you move to some Libertarian paradise like, say, Somalia?

  166. turkle January 10, 2011 at 4:11 pm #

    “your fellow thinkers”
    Well, this assumes Vlad has a brain…
    Anyways, don’t bother trying to get through to that guy. He’s a lost cause and proud of it.

  167. erikSF99 January 10, 2011 at 4:11 pm #

    Cash, thank you for the thoughts. You said: “There isn’t an American General in Ottawa telling our Prime Minister what to do.”
    Well, as we know from the Wikileaks diplomatic cable release, Secretary of State Clinton and the whole U.S. diplomatic corps spend ALL of their time telling EVERY country what to do. And if the country ignores our directions they’re demonized, a la Belarus, Venezuela or Iran.
    The main point is that the American Empire IS unlike all previous Empires. We don’t have direct colonies. We have military bases everywhere and we established the IMF and World Bank to enforce our corporations’ economic dominance. Both ‘liberals’ and ‘conservatives’ have written in details about this:
    Patrick Buchanan “A Republic, Not an Empire; Reclaiming America’s Destiny”
    William Bonner and Addison Wiggin “Empire of Debt”
    Buckminster Fuller “Grunch of Giants”
    Chalmers Johnson “Sorrows of Empire”
    Michael Hudson “Super Imperialism”
    John Perkins “Confessions of an Economic Hitman”
    Naomi Klein “Disaster Capitalism”
    And now that corporate-military empire is eating its own citizens via Wall Street (not ONE prosecution by Obama’s administration). JHK’s theme is that our future life will be intensely local. An economy based on world-wide exploitation via cheap oil is a thing of the past for us. Clearly, living in the U.S. I benefited from the Empire. In the big picture that time wasn’t just. I need to know how we got where we are now and deal with the future before us. (I realize that JHK has a more benign view of the U.S. Empire.)
    Of course I would criticize my own government. I live here. Should I point to other countries to rationalize what MY country has done? I’ve got no control over the evil past. My duty is to know the evil being done in my name now. Localizing my life is the best way to help the U.S. transition away from Empire.

  168. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2011 at 4:15 pm #

    Why are they hiring Foreigners? Several reasons: they will work for less than professional White Americans. Plus it’s good for International Business: hire some Pakistanis, and you have a leg up on doing business in Pakistan. And politically let’s face it: it reinforces the ruling ethos of Globalism. Below these three I would also mention what Cash said a couple of weeks ago: we’ve grown soft and our schools haven’t helped. In fact they’ve helped dumb us down. Of course, to complete the circle: why work hard if your prospective job is going to be given to a Foreigner?

  169. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 4:16 pm #

    “In the past, young men had their gaze fixed on the future since they expected to bear some responsibility for its stewardship. Not anymore. There is no future.”
    So you declare that there is no future and it is so? Me no think so.
    I know quite a few young people who are very actively involved in planning and working hard to secure their futures. Will they all succeed? Hell no, when in world history have all who have set out to accomplish goals actually achieved their goals? Never.
    But having MORONS tell them the future is over (And it ain’t. Proof? Tomorrow (which is the future) when you re-read this posting you will have been proven wrong.) doesn’t make their task any easier.
    I personally know kids who are working towards becoming a dentist, heavy equipment operator, photo journalist, writer, engineer, attorney, realtor, welder and a graphic designer.
    The world will continue whether you want it to or not. You can sit around and mope in your soup or volunteer your time ladling the soup out for those in this world that have it even worse than you.
    The kids are alright.

  170. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 4:20 pm #

    “And that’s just the “evil gubment” stuff I know of off the top of my head.”
    This is where you constantly make an idiot of yourself. Your top of the head nonsense that is later proven to be erroneous. Do some homework, moron. Quit shooting from the hip. You merely manage to shoot yourself in the foot.

  171. CaptSpaulding January 10, 2011 at 4:22 pm #

    Gabrielle Gifford’s first words after coming out of her coma were:” Glen Beck is finally starting to make sense to me”.

  172. turkle January 10, 2011 at 4:22 pm #

    Weak.

  173. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 4:26 pm #

    “How could watching or participating in thousands of simulated murders and other acts of violence NOT have some kind of deleterious effect on the human mind?”
    Duhhhhhhhhh. It involves the ability to separate fantasy from reality.
    Most people are more than well equipped to make the distinction. You posing the question indicates that YOU are not.
    No surprise there.

  174. turkle January 10, 2011 at 4:29 pm #

    “Duhhhhhhhhh”
    Are you 14 years old?

  175. bobby j January 10, 2011 at 4:30 pm #

    Hitler was refused admission to art school and then went on to greater things.Next time let the little guy with the moustache in.Jared couldn’t get into college and the army didn’t want him either.Probably he is along the schizoid path but with some encouragement and a cocktail of psychtropics he might well have directed his anger against the taliban. Lets face it not just anyone can shoot someone point blank remember that guy at the school board meeting. Watching re-runs of Law and Order gets a bit boring this time of year in the far North ,so knew it was getting to be time for America to have another mass killing and it seems that this one even has political overtones. As things come undone the most unstable parts go first and then the more stable begin to lose it.Jared got a gun and came undone.
    God Bless America

  176. turkle January 10, 2011 at 4:37 pm #

    “It involves the ability to separate fantasy from reality. Most people are more than well equipped to make the distinction. You posing the question indicates that YOU are not.”
    I’m perfectly able to do this. Some people are not. They are particularly susceptible to influence from violent media, because they have trouble making the distinction (especially schizophrenics).
    Its like how the Columbine shooters constantly referred to the video game Doom. They wrote explicitly how they wanted to enact this game in their real life. It is right there in their notes and journals.
    I beg to differ that most people, especially Americans, are able to separate “fantasy from reality.”
    I have talked to several Star Trek fans who thought that in a couple hundred years, we’ll be flying across the galaxy at hyper-speeds. The conflation of fiction and reality in the minds of media consumers is quite pervasive, especially when it comes to television. It is scary but true.
    So I’m not sure how you can argue that the lone shooter scenario, played out in so many video games and movies, has no influence on real world happenings. It defies common sense.

  177. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 4:43 pm #

    Duhhhhhhhhh”
    Are you 14 years old?
    No. But that is the requisite response for the stupidity that you posted. I’ll try not to use it again but knowing the insipid nonsense that you post almost every other minute, I think I may have to resort to it fairly often.

  178. asoka January 10, 2011 at 4:43 pm #

    jimjim, I shouldn’t have to explain this to you, but a community college is not a private industry for-profit business. You do not “weed out” people in education. You work with them.
    What you do, and I salute Noel Bodie for 30 years of service, is try to lead students to get them to do their best, to bring out the potential students have… so they don’t become Jareds.
    The whole purpose of “education” (from the Latin “e-ducare” which means “to lead out” or bring out) is to enable success.
    The word “enabler” (which you used) is appropriate. The Noel Bodies of the world are the best kind of enablers we have in our society.
    Noel Bodie hinted at one of the roles of the community college with this: “working to remediate poorly prepared teens…”
    And everyone benefits from the labor of community college instructors, whether you have children or not.
    The community college is one of the best places for learning for students today.

  179. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 4:50 pm #

    Hey MORON. You posed the initial question:
    “How could watching or participating in thousands of simulated murders and other acts of violence NOT have some kind of deleterious effect on the human mind?”
    I called you on it. I said it could NOT have a deleterious effect for those able to separate reality from fantasy.
    Then you say:
    “I’m perfectly able to do this. Some people are not. ”
    Your original statement indicated that the “human mind” would be impacted in a negative way if exposed to these games. Now you are saying you would not be affected. This indicates that you do not have a HUMAN MIND.
    I always knew that. You have a FUCKTARD mind. Now shut the fuck up.

  180. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 4:52 pm #

    ” “working to remediate poorly prepared teens…”
    Indicates that our scholastic system is a failure.

  181. turkle January 10, 2011 at 4:52 pm #

    Plenty of professional psychologists have made a connection between real and media violence. In particular, I recall a study where children were shown a violent video, and a control group was not. The ones who were shown the video acted more aggressively and violently in unsupervised play that followed. So the argument I’m making isn’t exactly far-fetched. It is a simple matter of “Monkey see, monkey do.”
    For instance, see the book “On Killing” which has a well-written chapter devoted to this topic.
    The media isn’t the sole cause of violence, and I didn’t argue this. The book I mentioned argues that murder requires three components: means, motive, and opportunity.
    Violent media provides means in terms of desensitization (movies) and acquirement of skills (video games).
    The real world provides the motive and opportunity.
    But I guess I shouldn’t argue with you, because you’re always right on this website…right?

  182. turkle January 10, 2011 at 4:55 pm #

    All media you consume has some effect on your mind. This is self-evident. If it doesn’t, you weren’t paying attention to it.
    Now whether or not you go out and shoot someone because of it is another matter.
    But there are more subtle effects, like a passive acceptance of the government committing violent acts in foreign countries, a casual attitude towards issues like torture, etc.

  183. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 4:55 pm #

    “So I’m not sure how you can argue that the lone shooter scenario, played out in so many video games and movies, has no influence on real world happenings. It defies common sense.”
    Didn’t you just indicate that you can handle it? You defy common sense by stating that you can handle it. You are an imbecile, turkey-lurkey and constantly prove it by your own postings.

  184. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 4:58 pm #

    “But I guess I shouldn’t argue with you, because you’re always right on this website…right?”
    Holy shit. The little light in the refrigerator slowly ramps to life. I can’t believe the breakthrough you just made.

  185. turkle January 10, 2011 at 5:00 pm #

    Sarcasm meter not working today?

  186. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2011 at 5:03 pm #

    If the shoe fits, wear it. The facts? The Left destroyed civil discourse in this Country decades ago. As Vladimir Lenin said, assasinate the character of your opponent completely. Let him not have one redeeming virtue. And you all are still at it – calling your opponents tea baggers or racists – as if Whites don’t have any collective rights as other peoples do. Surely you don’t expect us just to lie down and take it? Face it: you had your fun and now the bill comes due. You sowed the wind, now reap the whirlwind.
    Note: I would never call J.S Mill the oft condidered Father of Liberalism a libtard. Nor Thomas Jefferson. But their Liberalism was not the same as your’s – they would be considered far right conservatives today. And btw, I don’t know you. You jumped right in out of nowhere. I have no idea of your views. But if you feel comfortable with current day Liberalism, than by all means buy a Libtard T shirt.

  187. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 5:04 pm #

    No, it is turned off. I was being totally serious. You are too stupid to know sarcasm from truth. Hence your claim of being able to separate fantasy from reality is suspect.
    In the case of MORON vs the state of reality…I rest my case.

  188. turkle January 10, 2011 at 5:07 pm #

    Anyone who claims to be right 100% of the time is not to be taken seriously.
    You = case in point.

  189. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 5:08 pm #

    “All media you consume has some effect on your mind. ”
    Not so. You postings are a form of media. The only effect they have on my mind is a confirmation that idiocy is alive and well. But I already knew that so you could honestly say your postings have NO effect on my mind.

  190. asia January 10, 2011 at 5:08 pm #

    ‘People claim that movies and video games have no effect on the psyche.’
    read: ‘THE DARK SIDE OF MAN’…the canadian study on violence in canada when TV was introduced.

  191. turkle January 10, 2011 at 5:09 pm #

    You’re right, Vlad. Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’reilly, and Sean Hannity destroyed civil discourse in this country.
    Oh, wait…

  192. jimjim January 10, 2011 at 5:09 pm #

    “Anyone who claims to be right 100% of the time is not to be taken seriously.”
    Who has made such a claim?

  193. asia January 10, 2011 at 5:10 pm #

    Once a friend worked for Korean immigrants here in L.A.
    he said interspersed with korean he could hear the words:’SBA loan’

  194. asia January 10, 2011 at 5:11 pm #

    if ‘tithing’ means 10% yr facts are indeed dubious.

  195. jerry January 10, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    I usually only relate to about half your comments. Today, your points seemed unimpeachable.

  196. Tancred January 10, 2011 at 5:15 pm #

    Duke: The lights are growing dim Otto. I know a life of crime has led me to this sorry fate, and yet, I blame society. Society made me what I am.
    Otto: That’s bullshit. You’re a white suburban punk just like me.
    Duke: Yeah, but it still hurts.

  197. asia January 10, 2011 at 5:18 pm #

    Politically i am an atheist.
    I dislike ms cain, palin etc.
    ‘not ONE prosecution by Obama’s administration’
    he did take 3x as much loot [pun intended] from the street as mc cain in campaign contributions, yes?

  198. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2011 at 5:18 pm #

    “My Congresswoman (Gifford) voted against Nancy Pelosi and she is now dead to me”. Now deleted from the Left Wing Blog the Daily Kos.

  199. daofirry2 January 10, 2011 at 5:27 pm #

    hey, this book looks like something that many of you here would appreciate: The Vertical Farm. It’s about retooling skyscrapers to grow food, right in the hearts of our cities.
    http://www.amazon.com/Vertical-Farm-Feeding-World-Century/dp/0312611390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1294698070&sr=1-1

  200. turkle January 10, 2011 at 5:30 pm #

    Devoting the majority of your waking hours to spewing insults at people over the internet is imbecilic, as is repeating this behavior on a site after you’ve been banned multiple times for it.
    Hm, do we know anyone around here who fits this description?

  201. lbendet January 10, 2011 at 5:30 pm #

    Tenderness got lost in the scuffle.
    Who doesn’t need friendship warmth understanding and tenderness against an increasingly difficult set of conditions we’re living through. But what if some among us can’t achieve that?
    It’s a frightening case that there are people falling between the cracks and have no one to turn to. Their isolation is what leads to their emotional downward spiral.
    As conditions worsen our political dialogue is one of trying to annihilate the opposition. As I return to this blog in the late afternoon, I’m saddened by some of the entries I’m trying to skip over.
    If this blog were a little microcosm of what’s wrong with the dialogue in this country I don’t know what is.
    It’s hard to believe that intelligent people can’t debate their points without having to vanquish each other in the process. What is the hope that people can work together in a society that is losing it’s gravity when in fact the people in it have lost the ability to communicate without baring their teeth.
    I’ve enjoyed this blog and many of the ideas on it, but it’s amazing to me how often I have to scroll past totally self-indulgent and hateful invectives.
    I think most of us are drawn to this blog because we feel that the system we live in is unsustainable and there needs to be an exploration and sharing of ideas and purpose. We try to define what’s wrong and how we can plan for an uncertain future.
    If we can’t communicate our ideas effectively here, among mostly like-minded people I don’t know where in this culture we can.

  202. bailey January 10, 2011 at 5:34 pm #

    Ironic about the currency issue. Good point.
    The Debt clock is trying to tell us it’s time:
    http://www.usdebtclock.org/
    Even if you tax everyone for everything at 100% you won’t pay it off. Tax reform, cuts, forgetta about it, it’s gotta be reset.
    Many, outside the bubble that is the US, understand that it’ll be like WWII all over again, except this time, the US won’t be the super power, they’ll be a super power.
    They’ll just reset the game, just like they had to then, and the us will have to close down a coupla of those 55 military bases across the globe, we’ll have to stop any one of those 6 wars, or any of the other tepid, hot, cold, etc that’s we’ve been starting/engaged in for the past 5 decades and reset the entire game.
    No one wants the world to crash, everyone’s doing business, it’s just not all about the us anymore.
    China, who simply asked that America behave better towards their owners and stop threatening Iran and everyone else, just backed Spain, cuz, well, Spain’s kinda nice these days, much nicer than she used to be, that’s for sure…

  203. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2011 at 5:39 pm #

    They’re all tae kwan do men. All the men have to join the army where they study for their black belts. This enabled the Korean Vendors in New York to defeat the Blacks who didn’t like them cutting in on their business.
    In Civil War Two, Thomas Chittum predicts that someday South Korean Marines will evacute Koreans off the beaches of a California dying in the chaos of race war(s).

  204. turkle January 10, 2011 at 5:43 pm #

    “It’s amazing to me how often I have to scroll past totally self-indulgent and hateful invectives.”
    It’s that damn asoka isn’t it!

  205. turkle January 10, 2011 at 5:48 pm #

    “In Civil War Two, Thomas Chittum predicts that someday South Korean Marines will evacute Koreans off the beaches of a California dying in the chaos of race war(s).”
    Vlad’s wet dream last night.

  206. Loveandlight January 10, 2011 at 5:52 pm #

    As annoying and obnoxious as Emo/ Goth high-school kids are, sometimes you really have to think that they’re so sad only from paying attention to what’s really going on.

  207. jackieblue2u January 10, 2011 at 5:54 pm #

    Well it’s True that most of us can’t achieve it.
    It’s a Cold World seems like to me.
    I have little tenderness in my life, but I DO have it. Not Enough.
    People have forgotten how important it is.
    I wonder WHY it’s so hard for US to have that.
    I read something : To Have A Friend You Have To Be A Friend.
    But I think we are even talking about more than friends. We want intimacy and affection more than anything. Most of us anyway.
    Very SAD WORLD BY R.E.M. (songs always come to mind.) on YOUTUBE.

  208. jackieblue2u January 10, 2011 at 5:59 pm #

    Sorry that comment was for someone else, (Ibendit) that said Tenderness got lost in the shuffle.
    Got one for jimjim tho :
    Well that IS a good question, and I was basing it on the fact that it seems to me that times are getting harder and harder especially on the teenagers. More of them will become increasingly frustrated, and act out more.
    Hope not tho.

  209. Stilba January 10, 2011 at 6:13 pm #

    Jim, this is one of your best.
    How easy to dismiss this kid as a psychopathic crank who “fell into a nihilistic rut” before going on about all his far out beliefs (CNN, MSNBC, even BBC are all doing this). Thanks for, instead, making the intelligent connection between Jared’s actions and the rather screwy cultural backdrop.

  210. asoka January 10, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    bailey said: “…the U.S. will have to close down a coupla of those 55 military bases across the globe, we’ll have to stop any one of those 6 wars…”
    Congratulations, bailey! You are the first person I can remember who correctly identified that we are in 6 active military conflicts at the moment.
    However, you have seriously underestimated the number of USA military bases around the world. If there were an honest count, the actual size of our military empire would probably top 1,000 different bases overseas, but no one — maybe not even the Pentagon — knows the exact number for sure.
    The Dept. of Defense BASE STRUCTURE REPORT does not even list all the military bases like the dozens of bases in Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Kyrgyzstan, Qatar, and Uzbekistan, even though the U.S. military has established colossal base structures in the Persian Gulf and Central Asian areas since 9/11.
    By way of excuse, a note in the preface of the DoD BASE STRUCTURE REPORT says that “facilities provided by other nations at foreign locations” are not included, although this is not strictly true. The report does include twenty sites in Turkey, all owned by the Turkish government and used jointly with the Americans. The Pentagon continues to omit from its accounts most of the $5 billion worth of military and espionage installations in Britain, which have long been conveniently disguised as Royal Air Force bases.
    The U.S. nanny-military empire is the world’s biggest, and most complete, socialist welfare system providing government food, government clothing, government transportation, government housing, government health care, government education, etc. all at taxpayer expense. Proof that socialism works, but directed toward death and destruction, instead of at life and tenderness.

  211. ozone January 10, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    PudPud,
    You’re the guy I look for first in any crowd; your face reads your life.
    Don’t be so sure of your anonymity or relative safety; we all must pay our bill eventually.

  212. turkle January 10, 2011 at 6:28 pm #

    Oh, this shooting is all such a SHOCK, a real TRAGEDY. Even though it is as easy to get a handgun as it is to buy toilet paper, the media is saturated with violence, and our country is involved in two major wars, it is such a huge SURPRISE when something like this happens.
    Right.

  213. turkle January 10, 2011 at 6:41 pm #

    They kicked him out of community college due to mental health issues. Someone even wrote before the shooting that he seemed like the type of person who would go on a shooting rampage.
    Yet he could still buy a gun LEGALLY in Arizona.
    Nice.

  214. Pucker January 10, 2011 at 6:46 pm #

    Myrtlemay wrote: “Why won’t anyone explore the sickness that is pervading our culture and our young people? Is it too frightening?”
    The sickness is called “commercialism”. It’s how our world economy is being organized. It’s the same kind of spiritual sickness that is infecting China’s youth, but at an even more rapid, accelerated pace. We’re creating whole societies of sociopaths.

  215. ozone January 10, 2011 at 6:55 pm #

    “This cognitive dissonance, living the the US, where over half of all our tax dollars go to pay for a military and countless weapons of mass destruction, where it is considered our absolute right to invade other people’s countries, kill their children, poison their land and water, take their stuff, if our leaders decree it necessary.” -Wage
    ===========
    Well now; there ya go. Good call, Wage.
    Ya wanna weep and pray and call on JAYZUZZ to save ya from da Debbil?? WTF?
    To benefit from misery is to do evil and pursue Death for its’ relief from the ultimate Guilt. Therein lies the ending of worlds.
    Carry on, authoritarian fools; you’ll get your final wish someday…

  216. Kiwi Nick January 10, 2011 at 6:58 pm #

    Many people pour scorn on the school/college/university system, and to some measure I agree.
    The days of earning an honest degree are disappearing … a degree that really sets you apart from the crowd.
    At a recent high-school roadmap meeting, the teachers gave a brief hint that TAFE/Polytechnic is a good option, rather than trying for university, at least for some students.
    I put my hand up and added my piece, strongly agreeing with the teachers, and pointed out that we have somewhat of a Topsy-Turvy economy. I also told the group that there are programmers earning $12/hr – albeit in the U.S. (thanks, Eleuthero). That horrified a few people.
    I should also say there’s been a huge increase in advertising by the Universities (and the 3rd-rate imitators) – … why? And what about the shenanigans described here (I started doing a PhD in wireless telecommunications, but …)?
    As it is, the universities are churning out too many morons – programmers who can’t program, doctors who can’t cure, politicians who can’t do policy, etc. Perhaps that’s why the govt programmers can’t get a grocery watch up and running? In the meantime, Australia is crying out for electricians, plumbers, mining people, bus drivers, police, and all sorts of simple shit; jobs that now earn rates quite close to my programmer’s rate.
    We don’t have the same problems with student debt in Australia or NZ (repayments go by income – if you can’t find a job, you don’t get tapped on the shoulder), but my question is this: how to put the sandstone/prestige back into the University sector?
    Jargon buster:
    High-school: years 7 to 12 of school education, for 12-18 year old kids. The roadmap meeting covered the year 10-12 (15-18 year old) levels.
    TAFE/Polytechnic – vocational tertiary education that teaches trades (and other examples like cooking, hairdressing, photography, journalism) – a step down from University, but distinct from the 3rd-rate institutions, in that they’ve been around for decades and are (were?) government-run.

  217. asia January 10, 2011 at 7:06 pm #

    thanks….you are a NZer in Australia?
    ‘In the meantime, Australia is crying out for electricians, plumbers, mining people, bus drivers, police, and all sorts of simple shit; jobs that now earn rates quite close to my programmer’s rate.’
    they only welcome thos eunder 35 y.o.a.? yes?

  218. asia January 10, 2011 at 7:17 pm #

    from yday:
    ‘Dismissal of reality? Within minutes of the posting of the story, the internet lit up with the anti-Tea Party ravings. Just like in Duke University Rape case, everyone just assumed the assasin was a right wing nut case. And just like in the Duke University Case, everyone is wrong. Based on that case, we can stand assured that there will be no apology for this miscarriage of justice, and that the Liberal “Tribe” ……..
    remember the times square bomb and what Bloomberg said?
    the WSJ published a great rebuttal by dorothy rabinowitz…worth finding if its online.
    maybe i can find it and post some!

  219. asia January 10, 2011 at 7:21 pm #

    ‘LIBERAL PIETY AND THE MEMORY OF 9-11’
    There is no better exemplar of that faith than New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, though in this he is hardly alone. Compared with the Obama White House, Mr. Bloomberg is a piker in the preachments and zealotry department. Still, no voice brings home more unforgettably the attitudes that speak for today’s enlightened and progressive class.
    Immediately after the suspect in the attempted car bombing near Times Square was revealed to be Faisal Shahzad, of Pakistani origin, Mayor Bloomberg addressed the public. In admonishing tones—a Bloomberg trademark invariably suggestive of a school principal who knows exactly what to expect of the incorrigibles it is his unhappy fate to oversee—the mayor delivered a warning. There would be no toleration of “any bias or backlash against Pakistani or Muslim New Yorkers.”
    ETC ETC

  220. San Jose Mom 51 January 10, 2011 at 7:23 pm #

    Apparently, Jared L. went to purchase ammunition at a Walmart store, but the clerk refused to sell it to him. Then he went to another Walmart and they sold the clips to him.
    SJmom

  221. keny January 10, 2011 at 7:27 pm #

    Just attached a 30 carrot clip to my salad shooter. Bring it on!

  222. Neil Kearns January 10, 2011 at 7:58 pm #

    But does that guy have a well satisfied look on his face. Like the cat that ate the canary, which i suppose in the realm of angry but neutered young guys like him, he really did accomplish something extraordinary. Hope that smug mug doesn’t serve as an advertisement for others to feel some tangible form of satisfation.
    You see a similar effect with jihadists, but they seem to be externally incited to action. Possibly just as deranged though.

  223. myrtlemay January 10, 2011 at 8:13 pm #

    I had one of those, too. Damn thing broke off when I tried to attach it to my salad shooter. Damn Chinese made crap! 😉

  224. JINKS January 10, 2011 at 8:14 pm #

    I just thought I would add that there is no bankruptcy for all that educational debt in the good ole US of A. Why don’t you ever hear Rand Paul talk about that “debt slavery”?

  225. LewisLucanBooks January 10, 2011 at 8:28 pm #

    “Repo Man.” What do I win!? What do I win!? 🙂

  226. LewisLucanBooks January 10, 2011 at 8:30 pm #

    A friendly reminder …. 🙂
    DO NOT FEED THE TROLL(S)!
    They wither and fade (“I’m melting!….) without the warm light of attention.

  227. The Mook January 10, 2011 at 8:35 pm #

    Again, the liberals have all the answers except for the one they don’t want to hear; Who wants to pull the switch?

  228. LewisLucanBooks January 10, 2011 at 8:38 pm #

    A letter from out here…
    Seen on our local newspapers forums, today.
    (A typical local) “He (the shooter) is a liberal, left-wing, hippie, pot smoker!”
    (A local voice-of-reason) “If that were true, wouldn’t he have shot a Republican?”
    “Liberal” is about the worst label you can sling around here. Seen on a bumper sticker: “Gun Control Is Dropping A Liberal At 500 Yards.”
    I’ve been painted as having a “liberal” bookstore. I pointed out that obviously, the poster had a.) never been to my bookstore b.( a good gardening book is neither liberal nor conservative and c.) he might want to drop by and check out my extensive collection of books on guns and knives.
    I also pointed out that everlasting ignorance is fostered by contempt prior to investigation. Thank you Dr. Jung.

  229. Iona Laundramat January 10, 2011 at 8:43 pm #

    Otto: Wow! This is intense!
    Miller: The life of a Repo Man is always intense, kid.
    Great movie!

  230. suncatcher January 10, 2011 at 8:52 pm #

    “For more than one generation it has been difficult for young American males to develop successfully into men.”
    I disagree completely. We tend to notice those who are exceptions to the norm. The vast majority of young males ARE developing well, despite the challenges of their generation.
    A typical example is Daniel Hernandez, age 20,the intern of Rep. Gabby Giffords He was one of the heroes in the mass shooting, credited for helping to save her life. While in high school, he received training as a nursing assistant. He reacted immediately, used his skills to render aid.
    I contend that men like him are the norm for his generatio. I have confidence that they will meet the challenges of our future of Peak Everything.

  231. myrtlemay January 10, 2011 at 8:54 pm #

    Yet another reason why a college degree probably isn’t a good choice for most U.S. high school seniors these days. The banksters have it fixed so that they can track you down like bloodhounds when you take out a student loan – unlike Austalia, where they give you a break – as opposed to breaking your legs – if you don’t find employment after graduation.
    Where else on Earth can you go to ensure that by the time you’re 22 or so, you will be in hock for over $20K, necessitating you taking a job IMMEDIATELY (6 mos after school’s out) but amerika? Mind you, not a job you prepped for in school. More along the lines of, “Ya want fries wid dat?”

  232. asoka January 10, 2011 at 8:55 pm #

    “…check out my extensive collection of books on guns and knives…”
    ===========
    Publications on guns and knives are all around; you can get them at WalMart. It is tenderness we lack.
    Do you have books on ahimsa?
    Do you have books on sarvodaya?

  233. myrtlemay January 10, 2011 at 9:13 pm #

    To continue the rant about today’s universities, since when did college kids warrant an apartment, fully equipped with microwaves, air conditioning, private baths, and central heating (yes, I did just say “central heating”). I’ll not bore you with the “I walked to school through two feet of snow up hill both ways” routine. But gosh, I can still remember freezing in an old, delapidated sorority house in the winter. I learned how to dance while waiting for three other girls went ahead of me in THE bathroom (full bladder, doncha know!) Bottom line was, and I didn’t pay so I don’t really know. The cost of tuition then left out a lot of the frills that coeds enjoy these days. Many of us middle class rank and file members could in no way afford tuition. Money was very dear and credit was unheard of unless you had a rich daddy (I didn’t). A partial scholarship helped sail my sorry behind through and through.

  234. Mike Litoris January 10, 2011 at 10:20 pm #

    Jared Loughner is the kind of semi-functional moron that we normally don’t have to deal with because the armed forces usually snatch them up quickly and ship them out somewhere to get their legs blown off. Then afterwards they’re crippled and not much of a threat anymore. Speaking of which; just WAIT until the U.S. starts closing overseas military bases and bringing back home those THOUSANDS of thugs with tattoed flames across their necks, with both legs intact and NO JOBS in sight. It’ll be Duck Season. No wait, Rabbit Season ..no ..no ..Duck Season,..forget it: you catch my drift.
    Jared’s ramblings about currencies and such also exhibits the murky understanding of such affairs that’s typically shared among his age group in America; they know SOMETHING’S desperately wrong with this country, but they can’t seem to grasp the exact details with precision. Speaking of his age group; looks like allowing young children to spend their FORMATIVE YEARS busily blasting & slashing away at people in excessively bloody video games WASN’T SUCH A GOOD IDEA, HUH?. Who woulda thought? Congrats, American parents! Prepare to deal now with your lovely little now grown-up young fucking Frankesteins.
    Ultimately, Jared’s madness makes PERFECT SENSE in an institutionally corrupt nation that no longer has any moral compass nor rule of law.
    The Executive Branch can’t execute SHIT. It’s completely inoperant & subservient to Monsanto & Wall St. As is the Legislative and the Judiciary.
    We’ve gone thru the fucking LOOKING GLASS in America.
    MY advice? Time to get going while the going’s good. See you suckers in Uruguay.

  235. erikSF99 January 10, 2011 at 11:19 pm #

    Turkle asked: “There are jobs out there. The H1B visa program still brings in thousands from outside the US, because companies argue that there aren’t enough Americans to fill openings for technical positions.
    “Now, I’m not a big fan of H1B. But why aren’t Americans getting this technical training so that it would be clear and obvious that they could be employed in these jobs?”
    The H1B program is a total sham of American (especially high-tech and engineering) industry to avoid hiring ALREADY-Trained-and-Qualified Americans. Watch this infamous video from 2007 of an immigration lawyer as he and his co-workers explain at a seminar:
    “Our goal is clearly not to find a qualified and interested U.S. worker,” said partner Lawrence Lebowitz on the video. “And, you know, that in a sense that sounds funny, but it’s what we’re trying to do here.”
    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07173/796195-28.stm
    And here Paul Craig Roberts explains how the U.S. is creating NO well-paying jobs. This post is from 2005 and Mr. Roberts regularly posts articles since them confirming that all our good jobs are gone forever.
    http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts08092005.html
    “207,000 jobs were created in July 2005. If not a reassuring figure, at least it is not a disturbing one. On the surface things look to be pretty much OK. It is when you look into the composition of these jobs that the concern arises.
    “Of the new jobs, 26,000 (about 13%) are tax-supported government jobs. That leaves 181,000 private sector jobs. Of these private sector jobs, 177,000, or 98%, are in the domestic service sector.
    “Here is the breakdown of the major categories:
    • 30,000 food servers and bar tenders;
    • 28,000 health care and social assistance:
    • 12,000 real estate;
    • 6,000 credit intermediation;
    • 8,000 transit and ground passenger transportation;
    • 50,000 retail trade; and
    • 8,000 wholesale trade.
    (There were 7,000 construction jobs, most of which were filled by Mexicans immigrants.)”
    Here is one of Mr. Roberts recent updates:
    http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts10282010.html
    Globalism Comes Home to Roost
    America’s Jobs Losses are Permanent
    “On October 25, 60 Minutes had a program on unemployment in Silicon Valley, where formerly high-earning professionals have been out of work for two years and today cannot even find part-time $9 an hour jobs at Target.
    “In mid-October Treasury Secretary and Goldman Sachs puppet Tim Geithner gave a speech in California in the backyard, or former backyard, of 60 Minutes’ Silicon Valley dispossessed upper middle class interviewees in which Geithner said that the solution is to “educate more engineers.”
    “We already have more engineers than we have jobs for them. In a recent poll a Philadelphia marketing and research firm, Twentysomething, found that 85% of recent college graduates planned to move back home with parents. Even if members of the “boomeranger generation” find jobs, the jobs don’t pay enough to support an independent existence.
    “The financial media is useless. Reporters repeat the lie that the unemployment rate is 9.6%. This is a specially concocted unemployment rate that does not count most of the unemployed. The government’s own more inclusive rate stands at 17%. Statistician John Williams, who counts unemployment the way it is supposed to be counted, finds the unemployment rate to be 22%.
    “The financial press turns bad news into good news. Recently a monthly gain of 64,000 new private sector jobs was hyped, jobs that were more than offset by the loss in government jobs. Moreover, it takes around 150,000 new jobs each month to keep pace with labor force growth. In other words, 100,000 new jobs each month would be a 50,000 jobs deficit.”
    Here is the link to the CBS 60 Minutes video he refers to:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwpdGyIY2fQ
    No wonder the young OR old OR middle-aged have no future in the U.S.

  236. Lisa V January 11, 2011 at 12:23 am #

    As a first generation American I can see and compare both sides.
    Most of my life I spent in Soviet Union and moved to USA as an adult. It took my family 6 years after the decision was made (6 years after the Chernobyl nuclear explosion), but we came legally. The beginning was harsh – there is no need to describe it – but our hard work paid off (as simplistic as it may sound, but it is true). Our first years, despite the difficulties, were the happy ones.
    Then I started see what was not clear before.
    While living in USSR we managed to live in our own environment, it was as if the government did not exist at all. It was a gray irrelevant background, and our lives did not interact with that background. Our spirits were free. Sure, we were poor, sure we did not enjoy all the advantages the western countries gave the lucky citizens. And we did envy. We had to wait in lines for necessities, we could not afford to travel, we had a lot of restrictions, but we had real friends we could share our thoughts with, we read books together, we could get the forbidden books and forbidden movies. It was a spiritual life, even though we were atheists. That had helped us to tolerate the system. The TV and radio rumbled something in the background, and we did not believe a word. So it did not affect us. The Chernobyl changed everything. Our tolerance has a limit.
    But then what is life in USA?
    Everything is business:
    To the health insurance companies we are more valuable “items” when we are sick, because if one leads a healthy life – one does not make them profit.
    Public schools are beyond bad. Because it is only that big money can buy good education, and the rest would grow to serve and to slave until they die. That is why public education is being dismantled.
    The freedom we dreamed about before is a mere mirage. If it is so easy to impose a “patriot act” what freedom you are talking about. Freedom of speech protects the obscenities, but does not protect truth.
    And all that religious fever, those both left and right try to show – it is such a lie!
    I can continue on and on, but I don’t like to write long posts. I just wanted to share some of my thought.

  237. asoka January 11, 2011 at 12:27 am #

    myrtlemay said: “What is it with all of our young people resorting to such violence?”
    =======
    What is it with such generalizations with no evidence? Are we living in a media-induced reality-distortion field?
    “All” our young people are not violent… most are nonviolent and loving.
    Here is something you may not know about the tragedy in Tucson. In response to the shooting there was an amazing turn out in Tucson of warm hearted people, who brought flowers, balloons, cards, and candles.
    Among those people there was no talk of hating or revenge or blame. Just coming together to mourn ALL of the people involved, and send prayers and support for those struggling to live or struggling to accept the death of their loved ones.
    People stood in silence, holding candles, looking at the 100’s of candles flickering on the spontaneous altar that formed in front of the Congresswoman Gifford’s office sign. Someone played guitar and sang.
    The whole thing was organized by an 18 year old, and the spontaneous desire of the community to come together.
    The news media (and most on CFN) just focus on violent acts. But in Tucson there were hundreds of loving, compassionate acts in response to one violent act.
    Violence is not winning. Strangers were hugging and crying and choosing to focus on tenderness and healing.
    THAT is what is real.

  238. turkle January 11, 2011 at 1:02 am #

    You, dumbass, about three weeks ago.

  239. asoka January 11, 2011 at 1:07 am #

    If JHK intends this week’s title, “Jared Got a Gun,” to be a play off “Johnny Got His Gun” (an anti-war novel written in 1938 by Dalton Trumbo), it is a completely inappropriate literary reference.

  240. Buck Stud January 11, 2011 at 1:08 am #

    Violence doesn’t have to “win”; it just needs to show up for the game–that’s the sad tragic truth.
    And it’s a very uneven playing field, this contest between Peace and Violence. Centuries to build a St Peter’s Basilica, a few seconds to drop a bomb of immediate destruction.
    Holding hands after the fact doesn’t alter the inherent imbalance. Violence needs to be diverted far, far upstream, as many posters(including yourself), have alluded to.

  241. asoka January 11, 2011 at 1:17 am #

    “Violence needs to be diverted far, far upstream, as many posters(including yourself), have alluded to.”
    =========
    Yeah, OK. Your point is taken.
    My point was violence should not be blown out of proportion … especially when the proportion is 999 to 1.
    Don’t let the media amplify in your mind the violence of person and then conclude, incorrectly, that “all of our young people are resorting violence”

  242. asoka January 11, 2011 at 1:18 am #

    CORRECTION
    Don’t let the media amplify in your mind the violence of one person…

  243. turkle January 11, 2011 at 1:24 am #

    Kind of sad though that it takes a murder spree to bring out people’s kindness.
    If hillbillies carrying around AR-15s in their pickup trucks is love, then Arizona has a lot of love to give.
    Kids should be taught mind control skills in school: meditation, exercise, yoga, etc.
    Life is hard sometimes. Sometimes life can be hard all the time (for awhile at least). All this namby pamby BS you get taught in grade school about, “You can be whatever you want to be.” doesn’t turn out to be very useful in actuality and can lead to extreme disappointment when reality kicks in. You need to get the skills to pay the bills.
    Jared needed anti-depressants, exercise, intense mental health therapy, and maybe some daily meditation. This would lead to mental well-being for most anyone. When people are “crazy”, there are ways to make them get better.
    Instead, our culture, especially electronic media, teaches young men that when you get mad at something, you strike out violently against it, preferably with a high powered firearm.
    I can see a spontaneous fist fight being completely disconnected with media violence, but these shootings require a lot of organization, like a military operation. You have to decide that you’re going to do it and who/where the target will be. You have to purchase your weapon and ammo. You need skills to aim, reload, and fire your weapon, which requires some practice.
    This type of planning and execution is a typical script in countless movies and video games where it is “me against the world.” Most people are strong enough mentally not to do this and the positive/nonviolent scripts override the violent ones when they are stressed. But the mentally unstable, the severely depressed, schizophrenics, etc., are very susceptible to this kind of programming.
    And when it is over, like in a video game or action movie, they think that they have “won.” What else explains the shit-eating grin on this moron’s face? He thinks he’s won the game by killing a bunch of people, like a Quake death match.
    Reading about Arizona’s gun culture, I’m surprised this doesn’t happen more often. The politician who was shot in the head was a gun rights advocate and had a similar Glock pistol at home. You reap what you sow.
    And to the question about why Switzerland and Canada have far lower murder rates but similar rates of gun ownership…it is simple. These are very different cultures than America with different subtexts and scripts. If you have mental health or other issues in Canada, you go see the psychologist and get some happy pills, for free.
    In America…fuck it. You’re on your own, boyo. Many health care plans have minimal mental health care coverage. Here’s a nice shooter game, Jared. Have fun.

  244. Buck Stud January 11, 2011 at 1:25 am #

    I understood your initial point, but I think it does need to be “blown all out of proportion” because in fact, it’s an uneven contest–that’s my point. Otherwise, how does the awareness, will, and foresight to divert the rivers of impending violence gain any traction?

  245. turkle January 11, 2011 at 1:36 am #

    RE: jobs
    I don’t think the jobs picture is as grim as many here paint it. The main problem right now is that people cannot relocate for a new job, because they can’t sell their house, or at least not without taking a financial hammering that most cannot bear.
    And the idea that you shouldn’t get an education is completely bogus and exactly opposite of the truth. Education is the key to getting a good job. I read a recent Time article that stated around 70% of new job growth going forward will be positions that require at least a college degree. It is the low-skilled and the uneducated that were hammered the worst by the recession. Unemployment figures are much worse than the overall figure for two groups in particular: those without a college degree and construction workers. This is because these people are not flexible enough to switch careers, have minimal technical skills, and very little education.
    erik, I need to read through the article you posted. It looks interesting. Maybe the picture is different than what I thought.
    What strikes me is the large number of openings in the medical field, pretty much all of which (presumably) require some kind of education beyond high school.
    Yes, there is an element of fraud in the H1B program. However, it is clear that relatively few Americans are getting technical/scientific training at US universities. In many fields, most of the graduate students are foreigners. Why is this?
    In the same Time magazine article, an owner of a high end engineering firm said he was desperate for mechanical engineers. He can’t find enough qualified applicants to fill the positions he is advertising.
    So on a positive note, there are good jobs out there. On the other hand, you may have to move to Texas to get one.

  246. turkle January 11, 2011 at 1:43 am #

    Oh, and BTW, the highest tax bracket in the 1950’s, the hey day of my grandparents (people in their 70’s and 80’s right now), was more than DOUBLE what it is now.
    So “sweat of their brow” apparently involved a lot of income distribution, at more than double the percentage that is taken from the wealthy now.
    Historically, high income taxes on the wealthy have benefited the middle class “working stiffs” more than any other group, allowing them tax breaks and beneficial government programs, among other things.
    But don’t listen to me. Do your own research on Canada, Switzerland, and Germany, those hellish, liberal nightmare societies that are, um, considered the most desirable places to live on the planet.

  247. Jill January 11, 2011 at 1:43 am #

    I bought my thoroughly modern daughter a gift from a geek website this Christmas. I got an email from thinkgeek.com this weekend. This was the heading leading into the sale stuff:
    “Happy 2011, geek friends!
    We hope your holidays were merry and standards-compliant–you did upgrade the web browsers on your family members’ computers, right? (Web devs everywhere whisper, “Thank you.”)
    Timmy’s resolutions: better-than-bacon custom products, more contests involving unicorns (with and without sparkles), snorting more Nixie Tubes, and snicker-snacking on prices with his vorpal blade. In fact, he’s got more than 400 clearance goodies for you before he goes galumphing back into his server closet.”
    I despair.
    @tirkle
    It’s been a well known secret that HIB’s often replace American techie’s that often get to find a new occupation. I’ve met some of these HIB’s in Santa Clara. They often have short assignments – 4 to 6 months and are constantly being moved around on a as needed basis. They rent cheap temporary digs and usually have a wife in India or sometimes England. The company not only gets a HIB for a cheaper salary, but doesn’t pay per diem. Win for co. and HBI; lose for American tech worker. It’s not that we don’t have Americans who can do the work, they’re just not “cost effective.”
    #Pucker
    Martha Stout wrote a book about socialpaths. One of her comments was the rate for socialpaths in the US (8%)was double China’s (4%). She credited to China’s emphasis on the group vs our me-me culture.
    Jill in Berkley

  248. neckflames January 11, 2011 at 1:52 am #

    Thanks for your post. Indeed there are considerable problems here in the US. An over-priced profit driven health care system which thrives on its inherent conflict of interest.
    And public education here is, with few exceptions, pathetic. I’ve done some teaching in public schools. Students overall are unbelievably pre-occupied with their digital gadgets, ipods, iphones, etc. Entertaining themselves is their priority. The little learning that happens is peripheral to the digital matrix they live in. And so from the great intellectual tradition of Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, and the rest we are now a nation hell bent on entertaining ourselves into oblivion.
    IF you haven’t already, read Dmitry Orlov’s book “Reinventing Collapse”. He presents many parallels between the USSR and the USA and why the US will soon collapse as the Soviet Union did.
    I wish you strength in the years to come.
    Persevere,
    Neckflames

  249. turkle January 11, 2011 at 1:54 am #

    Mental health care, including therapy and prescription medication (anti-depressants, etc.), should be provided free or at very low cost to everyone. For those without means to pay for it, these things should definitely be free. The benefits to society of having a strong system in place for dealing with the whack jobs outweigh the associated costs involved when these people go “off the rails.” These costs range from police, ambulance, and jail bills, to completely destroyed lives (as in this horrible case).
    To me, it is like free police and fire service, a no brainer. No one in their right mind argues that police or firemen should send you a bill when they come out to help you. Similarly, I believe that dealing with the mentally ill in a humane fashion should be a built-in. Mental health care should be out in front, and ubiquitously advertised like the hot lines for suicide prevention or dialing 911 for an emergency.
    But collectively we have decided to focus our energies on other things, like shoot-em-up video games, the latest Glock handguns, and endless wars halfway around the world.
    So I am completely unsurprised when these incidents occur here. Like I said before, you reap what you sow.

  250. Patrizia January 11, 2011 at 2:00 am #

    I commented just after listening on youtube:
    The Secret History of the Global Financial Collapse.2010. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZwMIIJLWOw&NR=1
    Wall Street came out of the crisis exceedingly well, but left behind millions of unemployed people, and I am not talking just of US…
    As usual, the people on the road are the ones who pay, and the ones who have less usually pay more.
    I guess most of these people do not know what happened, because, if they did, it wouldn´t be difficult to find many Jaspers, this time rightly motivated.
    I do not justify the use of weapons, but if the ones who should defend you, who should make justice, do not, tell me what other means do you have?
    Do you think that it is effective going on the road and shouting?
    You even risk, in a country where there is a special “freedom of speech” that the police comes and brings you in jail…
    We all have to realize that Democracy is just the word they use to justify all the crimes they do.
    Though times are waiting for us all.

  251. kulturcritic January 11, 2011 at 2:11 am #

    Great perspective Lisa. I am a New York born American living now in Siberia with my Russian wife and family. Life is still less work/money-obsessed than the USA, but the texture of life here is beginning to change so that it moves more in the direction of Europe and USA. It is unfortunate, but America is determined to convert the entire world into its image as it enters its death throes.

  252. asoka January 11, 2011 at 2:13 am #

    “If you are in law enforcement and you are not a right winger, you will get all kinds of heat from the right wing nuts,” Sheriff Dupnik told Couric.
    Later in the interview, he took issue with laws that allow the carrying of concealed or non-concealed weapons at all times.
    “That’s the height of insanity,” Dupnik said. “I don’t know what else they can do. Maybe they could pass a law that would require that every child have an Uzi in their crib.”

  253. turkle January 11, 2011 at 2:18 am #

    Yeah, Wall Street did pretty well.
    $3 trillion in zero interest loans courtesy of Ben Bernanke’s Helicopter Express is so MONEY.
    But, oh, I forgot, according to jimmyjim, they were FORCED to take that money, like a man being raped by a supermodel.
    No, no, don’t make us take billions of free dollars Mr. Bernanke. Please, anything but that!

  254. old6699 January 11, 2011 at 2:33 am #

    In fact you are part of the problem, you are the enemy, you must be crushed. I don’t want to find any common ground with you, I hate you and all of those who think like you, do you understand ? Just like Bush made everyone in the USA hate anyone against his attack on Irak, the same should be applied to those opposing the single payer, paid by the government and TAXES, that is right, TAXES, so everyone PAYS. Hope you pay more and more for health care, you must be rich.
    I said, paid by the rich (anyone making more than 60,000 dollars a year could and should pay 2,000 a year for health care TAX) and slashing the doctors pay from 300,000 dollars a year to maybe 150,000 dollars a year, etc.
    Then, if you don’t like the public hosiptals and doctors, pay your own private health care.
    The single government pay system works quite well in most of the civilized world, Sweden, Finland, Canada, France, JAPAN, South Korea, etc. It may not be perfect, but perfection is not obtainable anywhere no matter how much you try.
    Anyways, I really hope they all jack up the prices more and more for all things health kare, pay ever more for emergency, actually, I hope they eliminate that “free lunch” of emergency room service to the “poor lazy slobs” who don’t “want to work”, like all of you right wing fascists, egotists say. Let anyone who is not rich just drop dead, that also solves the problem of “overpopulation”, and illegal immigrants…

  255. Patrizia January 11, 2011 at 3:12 am #

    They say economy is such a complicated matter, not even the experts can understand the full picture.
    I am a chemist, I do not understand much of economics, but I was quite good in mathematic.
    If those trillions given to the banks (for the sake of the people of course) had been given DIRECTLY to the people, for examples in zero interest loans, rediscussed mortgages, in infrastructures, railroads, hospitals etc…
    probably the crisis wouldn’t have been solved, but we would certainly have more jobs and less foreclosures.
    In principle the State is the guilty one, because they allowed unethical and illigal practices (lending money to people who couldn’t repay and THEN selling these credits as AAA to people who trusted those same crooks…)
    There is a big Mafia that differs from the Sicilian Mafia just because its members studied at Yale or Eaton or Harvard instead of the 5th elementary school of Palermo, but, believe me, the strategy is Exactly the same.
    They have their own men in the strategic places, where the laws are made and of course made in their favor.
    I would say that in US is even worse.
    In Sicilia at least they are “declared criminals” here they are “decent and honest and intelligent economists and bankers”.
    They used the trust to commit their crimes.
    The ones who bought their “derivatives etc.” did so because they were rated AAA.
    The ones who rated them AAA either are idiots (I do not believe it) or accomplices.
    What happened was not an accident, was a “created” meltdown.
    I do not think that a society motivated to the goal of making money is so evil.
    It is always better than a society not motivated.
    If that money is used for giving a better education, a more comfortable life to your children, well you are rightly motivated.
    It is the exasperation of it, the greediness that makes unscrupled, ruthless people.
    It is the failure of the people we elect to make a society just and equal for all.
    It is not the type of society, it is the people who on one side rule and on the other the people who should “control”.
    May be a little more education about “civil rights” and “politics” a little less soap operas or talk shows could do the trick…

  256. tucsonspur January 11, 2011 at 4:10 am #

    Right, no tears shed this time by John Bawling, Weeper of the House. I’m not so sure it’s feeling sorry for himself, but the psychological underpinnings of his lachrymal tendencies are for another time.
    Just hours after the tragedy, the sheriff of Pima County, one Clarence Dupnik, used it politically and focused his blame on the “vitriolic” rhetoric of certain TV and radio personalities. Furthermore, he went on to say that this vitriolic rhetoric is creating a center for bigotry here in Arizona.
    Right, vitriolic rhetoric about protecting our borders and stopping illegal immigration. Vitriolic rhetoric about wanting an America with good old-fashioned values. Values that might just produce the men Jim was talking about. Dimwit, demented, dipshit Dupnik just put the crosshairs targeting slimey stupidity on himself.
    And for all of you who know so much about Arizona’s “gun culture”, I’ve been here more than twenty years and the one and only time I saw a gun in a pickup truck was up on the mesas in Navajo country. My guess is that there’s probably more “gun culture” in just a few urban centers across America than there is here statewide. But I’m only human, and I have to admit, every now and then I just want to smoke some mother——.

  257. Bustin J January 11, 2011 at 4:16 am #

    I mope! I mope in my soup!
    DO YOU HEAR ME INTERWEBS!
    I MOPE IN MY SOUP!!!!
    FACEBOOK!!

  258. Bustin J January 11, 2011 at 4:19 am #

    Patrizia, you take mafia seriously in Siciliy, no?
    You’re right on the money.
    “There is a big Mafia that differs from the Sicilian Mafia just because its members studied at Yale or Eaton or Harvard instead of the 5th elementary school of Palermo, but, believe me, the strategy is Exactly the same.
    They have their own men in the strategic places, where the laws are made and of course made in their favor.
    I would say that in US is even worse.
    In Sicilia at least they are “declared criminals” here they are “decent and honest and intelligent economists and bankers”.
    They used the trust to commit their crimes.
    The ones who bought their “derivatives etc.” did so because they were rated AAA.
    The ones who rated them AAA either are idiots (I do not believe it) or accomplices.
    What happened was not an accident, was a “created” meltdown.”

  259. Eleuthero January 11, 2011 at 6:03 am #

    One of the problems with a decaying culture
    is that many fringe elements listen to the
    wrong voices. It almost sounds like Mr.
    Loughner has been listening to Limbaugh
    or Hannity or Levin talking about education
    being a “scam”. As the bumper sticker says:
    “If you think education is a scam, try
    ignorance”.
    What adds a comical element to this is that
    Pima College is a COMMUNITY COLLEGE whose
    tuition is DIRT CHEAP. It makes U. of Arizona
    look like an Ivy League school in terms of
    tuition expenses.
    Why is it that when a culture goes NUTS, they
    always go after the intellectuals. It was so
    in Nazi Germany, Pol Pot’s Cambodia, and Mao’s
    Cultural Revolution where if you even wore
    glasses (which implied that you read books)
    you were shot.
    Indeed, I would claim that a murderous rage
    about the intellectual class is an indication
    that OUR CULTURE, and many of its mavens like
    Levin and Limbaugh, is as schizoid as Mr.
    Loughner.
    E.

  260. Eleuthero January 11, 2011 at 6:30 am #

    Oh, gimme a break, Tucson, your State
    is riddled with Mormon Republikooks
    who think that poor people and educators
    will eat into their lucre.
    Those who want good insight into Arizona
    politics should read the writings of long-
    time Arizonan, John Talton, who now writes
    for the Seattle Times. His missives about
    AZ are hilarious.
    By the way, Tucson, if you post here your
    rants ought NOT be non sequiturs. What in
    hell does a schizoid rant by a kid who almost
    appears to be mouthing the party line of Glenn
    Beck and Bill O’Reilly have to do with border
    patrol??
    E.

  261. MarlinFive54 January 11, 2011 at 7:47 am #

    I just saw Loughners (only) friend interviewed on ABC. He had long pink hair. It covered his face. I guess its not the Old West in Tucson anymore.
    Alot of people are surmising, even on this site, people who should know better, that Loughner was a follower of Sarah Palin and Glen Beck. I haven’t seen anything to indicate this.
    Maybe he was partial to Kieth Oberman and Bernie Sanders, I dont know. I was at a fourth of July event in Vermont in 2009 where Sanders whipped up the crowd, in his unmistakeable Bronx accent, to take Vermont out of the Union and form their own Republic. He was even standing underneath the Vermont Republic flag.
    As far as political vitriol goes, some of us haven’t forgotten how President Bush was treated when he was president. One of the reasons I likes Jim’s TLE is that laid out what we faced but did not
    excoriate the U.S., my country, for defending its interests throughout the world, like every other country does.
    “…because something is happening here but you don’t know what it is do you Mr. Jones…”

  262. lbendet January 11, 2011 at 7:53 am #

    Asoka, Jared got a gun is a reference to Aerosmith “Janie’s got a gun”. JHK was a writer of Rolling Stone, remember?

  263. MarlinFive54 January 11, 2011 at 7:54 am #

    In other words The Long Emergency wasn’t just another leftist screed blaming the United States for all whats wrong in the world. That’s one of the reasons it’s such a good book and we’re still talking about it 6 years after it was published.

  264. Lisa V January 11, 2011 at 8:13 am #

    I know how many changes took place there. I visited my hometown in 2003. I spoke with people I knew before. Free higher education is over. A smart girl, who won some awards in physics and math could not afford tuition and dropped out of university. Free health care is still there, but the quality of care will be as high as the amount you pay.
    Somehow the “freedom” mostly works for the crooks. It might take long decades before everything falls into place, but it might as well become the same we see in USA.
    When people ask me what country I prefer to live in I usually say that it could be nice to mix both and divide, so both have the best of both societies.
    And in reply to Neckflames, yes I did read Dmitry’s book. I do beleive we as a society go down
    But years ago I made my choice. And for better or for worse this is my home now. This is the place where 3 of my 4 grandchildren were born. I will stay were my family is, and they don’t plan to go back.
    At least I know I can survive were most of American can not. I know how to rely on my own skills. And maybe that makes me more American than many who were born here.

  265. ladelfina January 11, 2011 at 8:14 am #

    Don’t think that they are alarmed about the threat in Europe! My born-again RWNJ relative had a slick color postcard up on the fridge, with a printed headline reading “pray for Jen”. The slick color postcard had images of the Eiffel Tower, a chic French vegetable market, and so forth. Long story short, this woman is getting bankrolled by my relative’s wacko church to be a missionary to FRANCE!
    When I scoffed at the usefulness of this mission and wondered out loud whether it mightn’t be a cushy scam, I was assured that “Jen” was responding to a serious emergency, since there is apparently a crisis-low level of nutty protestant evangelism in France.
    Which only makes my heart warm towards France.

  266. ladelfina January 11, 2011 at 8:15 am #

    oops “are” => “aren’t”

  267. ladelfina January 11, 2011 at 8:31 am #

    Kulturcritic, you can be paranoid *and* have people out to get you. There’s not some bright line where people are 100% sane or 100% insane. Saying that the guy was crazy and thus immune from outside stimuli, including political points of view, is disingenuous.
    In fact, the opposite is likely true, that these stimuli become exaggerated to the point of being convinced not only that the existential threat is real (rational; many people here would actually agree w/Loughner on some points) but that immediate (irrational) action is necessary, egged on by those on the right preaching pre-emptive violence.

  268. MarlinFive54 January 11, 2011 at 8:48 am #

    Big snow rolling into Connecticut tonight they’re talking 18″. It doesn’t get any better especially since I took early retirement from Fed. Govt. and don’t have to go out into it.
    “Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow”.

  269. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 9:20 am #

    “Don’t be so sure of your anonymity or relative safety; we all must pay our bill eventually.”
    My, my this one could possibly be filed under the heading of “threatening”.

  270. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 9:22 am #

    “Yet he could still buy a gun LEGALLY in Arizona.”
    Another failure of Big Government. (Of course you would never make the connection.)

  271. Cabotool January 11, 2011 at 9:24 am #

    Is there a list of the companies that advertise on Fox news and that make up the Koch Industries group. I would like to see:
    Company names
    Company phone numbers
    Company email addresses
    I want to use that information to contact the companies that are funding Fox news and tell them that I will not continue to buy their products or services until they have stopped funding the likes of Glen Beck, etc.
    I think that for me to personally not watch Glen Beck’s show will not do anything. (I only see what Beck says when it is repeated by Olberman)
    I think that if the people funding Glen Beck see an outpouring of anger at them… there will then be a difference.
    Peter
    I hope there are enough sane people left in the USA to make following through on what I suggest create change.

  272. ladelfina January 11, 2011 at 9:30 am #

    “we seem to act all surprised when Johnny decides to go postal ”
    Haven’t finished reading the comments, so I hope I’m not repeating someone, but… Has anyone noticed how a lot of rightwingers campaign against sex and smut in popular culture, because kids are so “impressionable”? Hell, kids were too delicate to be exposed to the image of a black president in the classroom, lest they be “indoctrinated” with some evil subliminal messaging.
    So why the fuck were kids so impressionable yesterday, but today, after this shooting, their reaction is, “no, no, people aren’t influenced at all by the messages in their environment. Our rhetoric is completely irrelevant and extraneous to the facts”!

  273. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 9:32 am #

    You, dumbass, about three weeks ago.
    Wrong again, oh perpetual fucktard. I said my postings here were always correct. I did not say I am always 100 % correct. I said that when a person posts here they have the luxury of getting their facts straight before they hit the send button. This is a fact that you, quite obviously, are still not aware of as you are attributing me with having said I am always 100% correct. I never said any such thing, M-O-R-O-N.

  274. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 9:35 am #

    “I don’t think the jobs picture is as grim as many here paint it. The main problem right now is that people cannot relocate for a new job, because they can’t sell their house, or at least not without taking a financial hammering that most cannot bear.”
    Then its a PROBLEM, you fucking imbecile! (Would you please shut the hell up? Pretty please?)

  275. ladelfina January 11, 2011 at 9:35 am #

    “And the reasons it is “necessary” to kill millions of other people?
    They want a planned economy instead of a free market one, they want to choose their own leader instead of the ones we deem suitable, if we don’t kill them now, they might someday come and kill us, we think that they are planning to someday maybe build a weapon similar to the ones we stockpile by the thousands, and that is intolerable, etc.,etc.,etc.”
    They want to nationalize their oil (Vietnam, Iran, Venezuela… all “evil”).

  276. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 9:38 am #

    “To me, it is like free police and fire service, a no brainer. No one in their right mind argues that police or firemen should send you a bill when they come out to help you.”
    So the police and the fire service are free? Sweet Hay Sus, you are the dumbest skirt on the planet.

  277. orionoir January 11, 2011 at 9:49 am #

    reading at random i came across myrtlemay’s meta-comment, which seems to strike near the heart of the angst of tuscon (virginia tech, ok city, columbine…)
    as the husband of an elementary school teacher, i see up close how parents fail their children. still, with a nod to the social contract, the blame disperses quickly: thirty year-olds (raising ten year-olds) often work grim jobs that either pay too little, consume too much time (eg, commuting,) or both. poverty is not this town’s cross to bear, but there’s a different kind of deprivation that parents band-aid with all manner of electronics, trips to disneyworld, heck, zoloft and zyprexa, if only for alphabetic inclusiveness.
    optimists like to see mass murder as impetus for change, as if the world will suddenly come to its senses. they hearken to the same lost order as those who believe it takes a village to raise a child. i mean, yes, it takes a village, but there hasn’t been a village ’round here in thirty years, unless you count heritage green village, sixty peaceful units collectively valued at negative $thirteen million.

  278. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 9:55 am #

    “But, oh, I forgot, according to jimmyjim, they were FORCED to take that money, like a man being raped by a supermodel.”
    That is correct. Of course even though I gave you links you insist of denying the truth.
    Here is the money quote. It is from Hank Paulson’s talking points to the 9 major banks:
    “This is a combined program (bank liability guarantee and capital purchase). Your firms need to agree to both.
    We don’t believe it is tenable to opt out because doing so would leave you vulnerable and exposed.
    If a capital infusion is not appealing, you should be aware that your regulator will require it in any circumstance”
    Once again, here is one of many sources on this topic:
    http://www.businessinsider.com/uncovered-tarp-docs-reveal-how-paulson-forced-banks-to-take-the-cash-2009-5
    Turk, a fave saying I heard long ago. It has been attributed to more than one author. It follows:
    “It is better to be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.” (I know you’ll have to think real hard about this one but give it the old college try.)

  279. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 10:00 am #

    “In fact you are part of the problem, you are the enemy, you must be crushed. I don’t want to find any common ground with you, I hate you and all of those who think like you, do you understand ?”
    I think I do understand. You have some serious issues. Nuff said.

  280. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 10:16 am #

    “as the husband of an elementary school teacher, i see up close how parents fail their children.”
    And in so doing they make additional demands of their schools to pick up the slack. The three R’s are no longer good enough. Now schools must provide pre and post school sitters and breakfast, lunch and after school snacks.
    Of course they must also discover and diagnose all of the unnoticed (by the parents) neurosis that the children in their charge suffer from and tolerate disruptive behavior with no recourse in the way of punishment.
    The “It takes a village” approach to child rearing merely enables bad parenting to flourish. Cause and affect? What up wif dat?

  281. Qbala January 11, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    You are such a jerk, jj. There is no comparison in the health, mind, and body of children growing up in planned (aka more “village-like”) vs. sprawl communities. Canada apparently gets it, according to these studies:
    http://www.canada.com/health/family-child/kids+urban+sprawls+take+toll+children+health/2159190/story.html
    And there are tons more. Would you like me to introduce you to Nemours Health and Prevention Services, who have made this their mission?
    It doesn’t absolve parents of responsibility, but the environmental benefits are immeasurable – even for those who’s parents rot. I grew up in one, Radburn (Google it) and can personally attest.
    Turkle, you are an awesome contributor to this forum – keep up the great work. Very insightful, well researched, thought provoking comments.

  282. LauraC January 11, 2011 at 10:40 am #

    The people of Tuscon swarmed this shooter. The Florida school board shooter was bashed by a woman who wanted to protect “her boys,” and assumed that her boys would help her fight. Give post-911 Americans a little credit.

  283. Cash January 11, 2011 at 10:41 am #

    Erik, you overestimate your power.
    You are absolutely right, your govt tells others what to do all the time. But who listens? We don’t. Neither does anyone else. We do what’s in our interest. If it intersects with yours that’s great and if not well, too bad.
    I have no idea of your background or how old you are or whether you were around to see the so called “Cold War”. It was a nasty time in world history. Communism enveloped large parts of the globe. And Communists were shitty. How do I know this? I worked with and knew people here in Canada that managed to escape and came to live and work here. They were ordinary working people and the stories they told were something. I’ve related these stories in the past so I don’t want to bore people again. But the Communists’s stated aim was world domination. In Krushchev’s words: “We will bury you.” And for a long time it looked like they might do it.
    That’s the context of the Vietnam War. Was it a mistake? Yes. It was a war not worth fighting in a part of the world that didn’t matter. Having said that, the deaths of those Americans in Vietnam weren’t for nothing in my opinion. Communism is in the dust bin of history and a good thing too.
    And that is also the context of the US bases worldwide. It came out of WW2 and the struggle in the follwoing years with an expansionist USSR. Don’t forget the Russkis were active worldwide also. Should you have shut down those bases? You bet, at least ten years ago.
    As far as Iraq goes I have no idea why this war was fought. I don’t think it was about oil. If oil was the worry then let Sadam stay in power, curry favour with him, sell him arms and let him produce and sell all the oil he wants. Who gives a shit if he ruled Kuwait. He’d sell that oil too. If you really wanted to give the 82nd Airborne something to do they could’ve conquered Alberta where there’s more oil in those oil sands than in Saudi Arabia. And we don’t do suicide vests and IEDs.
    As far as Afghanistan goes, I think it was a misconceived reaction to 9/11. You had to hit back at someone, but who? The real bad guys were Saudi Arabia and Pakistan but that would have been exceedingly bloody. So Afghanistan it was. Bush and the US Generals had to show how big their johnson’s were. IMO, no 9/11, no Iraq War, no Afghanistan war.

  284. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 10:49 am #

    “You are such a jerk, jj.”
    I see your planned village up bringing has left you so very open minded to the views of those whom you do not agree with. Congratulations.

  285. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 10:55 am #

    “Give post-911 Americans a little credit.”
    But Laura, your description of what these people did to the shooter could be described as being “mean”. Surely, you don’t ascribe to meanness?

  286. Belisarius January 11, 2011 at 11:03 am #

    “Because our government has done little to bring young people into a sustainable workforce, as our grandparents had when they landed here from other places…”
    ‘Your grandparents had nothing of the sort. They had nothing waiting for them except the sweat of their brows.’
    My maternal grandfather came to Boston circa 1910 aged 18 and newly married. He worked as a daylaborer for awhile, then got a job with The Boston Elevated Railway. He went from sweeper to collector to trainman. One day his train broke down, he improvised a repair and finished his shift. When they saw his repair they offered him a job in maintenance. He rose to maintenance foreman, maintenance engineer, then chief engineer for the entire electric railroad. All of this without formal training; a little unusual then, but almost impossible today. He retired with pension during WW2 with 30+ years served, as was normal then. The company kept coming around for several years with problems for him to solve though, and he would come up with a solution for them.
    So….companies hired young folks, promoted those with ability and ambition and many stayed with the same company all their lives. In house hiring filled most better paid positions. Full pensions were common and people retired in their fifties. Employees were loyal to their companies, and companies were loyal to their employees. One worker could support a wife and several kids. Sounds like a different world to me.

  287. Cash January 11, 2011 at 11:29 am #

    One more thing Erik, the United States wasn’t always the United States. Today and since WW2 we’ve seen a world power whose navy cruises the world.
    It wasn’t always like this. A hundred years ago, in the lead-up to WW1, the US was an up and comer but still suffering from the Civil War. It was a bit player in world affairs. The big powers in those days were countries like the UK, Germany, France, Russia, Japan. So the world that Americans are living in now wasn’t set up by Americans. It was set up by the imperial powers I just mentioned. Americans inherited a world order created by other, much bigger and older powers in their own interests.
    Americans have tried to mold things since WW2 according to their own interests and their own vision but there were and are other powers in the world. The US didn’t and doesn’t have the run of the place. It is influential but not all powerful. Like I said before the USSR and China were huge, implacable enemies of the US who were held back from world domination by the threat of a nuclear armed American military. They had, and still have, gigantic nuclear armed forces. The Communist economic system came apart in the end because people stopped listening to Communist bullshit.
    You may think American hegemony evil but, believe me, I can think of far, far worse alternatives. IMO when it comes to evil Americans are pink cheeked little girls compared to the alternatives. Americans can’t compare to monsters like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, the Japanese militarists and Pol Pot.
    As far as your idea of American evil goes you entitled to think and see things as you please but I would throw in a cautionary note. Your adversaries in the world are not inclined to see themselves, their countries and societies in the worst possible light as are many Americans. As such they automatically hold a psychological advantage over you.
    Islamists, for example, start from the assumption of their own religious and cultural superiority. They are confident in themselves and they are willing to kill and will happily die for their cause. And no, it wasn’t evil American foreign policy responsible for this. Muslim societies have been militarily aggressive since day one 1400 years ago, long before the US was a gleam in George Washington’s eye.
    The Chinese are also immensely proud of themselves and their country. They are very nationalistic. Do not under-estimate them.

  288. wagelaborer January 11, 2011 at 11:29 am #

    Or it could be “Janie’s Got a Gun”
    But that would also be inappropriate!

  289. Tancred January 11, 2011 at 11:40 am #

    I hope you guys get my point about the Repo Man quote. Otto and Duke confront the idea of free will, that you can’t blame “society” for who you are. Jared is responsible for what he did. All this cultural determinism seems like an excuse for the actions of a individual.
    But culture can be a manipulative force, just read Hitler’s Willing Executioners. Curiously, Giffords was Jewish, as well as a Democrat.
    Free will is a learned attitude. Know thyself.

  290. ladelfina January 11, 2011 at 11:42 am #

    “no future = mental illness”
    This is not just cracking up young minds. When I first started reading and understanding what was going on, I entered a space that literally felt crazy to me, truly short-circuited, and I thought about seeking mental health help, just to try and get a handle on things. But what could anybody tell me, assuming that they understood?
    This is a time unlike any other in human existence; there’s no history, art or literature, no political or cultural framework we can use as a reference for what we will be undergoing, to say nothing of the sheer scale of it.
    The only way I can keep sane is by cobbling together a sort of found-in-the-gutter duct-tape-Buddhist equanimity.
    I think we are going to have to let go of all expectations of humanity, of culture, and especially of civilization. Not that we shouldn’t try to re-appropriate and re-dimension these concepts where possible, just that we can no longer have any expectations of finding their meaning in the world as it exists.

  291. ladelfina January 11, 2011 at 11:54 am #

    If Turkle’s postings have no effect on your mind, why are you driven to respond to them in Pavlovian fashion, with little more than expletives?

  292. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 12:00 pm #

    “Sounds like a different world to me.”
    It was a different world. But the story you share was not one of your grandfather coming here with a job all lined up by the U.S. government. He started low on the rung, proved himself and prospered.
    I agree that loyalties between employers and employees are a thing of the past. It is the lack of certainty on numerous levels that has gotten us to this sad state.

  293. ladelfina January 11, 2011 at 12:01 pm #

    “Dead to me” means personal or social shunning, cutting off contact… not that you frickin’ kill the person.
    The fact that the right wing can’t tell the difference between solving problems socially rather than solving them using violence is exactly what you yourselves are proving with this tiresome talking point emanating from the hive mind.

  294. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 12:02 pm #

    “Americans have tried to mold things since WW2 according to their own interests and their own vision but there were and are other powers in the world. ”
    Are you suggesting that other countries act differently? More to the point, do you suggest individuals act differently?

  295. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    “If Turkle’s postings have no effect on your mind, why are you driven to respond to them in Pavlovian fashion, with little more than expletives?”
    Did you say something?

  296. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 12:17 pm #

    “The fact that the right wing can’t tell the difference between solving problems socially rather than solving them using violence…”
    So, the burning of Watts, Cleveland, NYC, Philadelphia, etc. ect. during the civil rights era was perpetrated by the “right wing?”
    The Chicago Police riots (hosted by hizzoner, Mr. Daley), during the Democratic Convention, was “right wing”?
    The Seattle riots during the WTO conference was “right wing”?
    Billy Ayers bunch, (the Weather Underground) and the bombings they conducted was “right wing?” Uh huh. You know what your talkin’ about.

  297. wagelaborer January 11, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    Thanks for the addition, and for your comments.
    I laughed out loud at your comment about “Jen” in France.

  298. Cash January 11, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    What I’m suggesting is that a lot of Americans, for reasons known only to them, seem to want to cast the US and all its actions in the worst possible light.
    What I’m saying is that they hugely overstate the power of the US in the world, that there are other powers active in world affairs and that when it comes to committing evils, the US comes ankle high compared to others.
    I’m also saying that the US, IMO, has done far more good than evil.
    I’m also saying that, yes, the US has military bases around the world but look at the historical context. This world is not only a creation of the US. There have been world powers active for far longer than the US.

  299. Belisarius January 11, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

    “There are jobs out there. The H1B visa program still brings in thousands from outside the US, because companies argue that there aren’t enough Americans to fill openings for technical positions.
    Now, I’m not a big fan of H1B. But why aren’t Americans getting this technical training so that it would be clear and obvious that they could be employed in these jobs?”
    The companies are lying. H1B’s are cheaper, more compliant, more portable, and easier to get rid of than locals. It is “clear and obvious” that there are huge numbers of laid off and/or newly graduated, technically qualified applicants for most of the openings filled by H1Bs. Just don’t expect an expose on the subject from MSM

  300. Cash January 11, 2011 at 12:32 pm #

    And you might mention the rioting during the G20 meetings here in Toronto. Somehow I don’t think it was the work of goons on the right. And who gets roundly condemned? The police.

  301. rippedthunder January 11, 2011 at 12:33 pm #

    “Monster” by Steppenwolf, still relevant forty years later. enjoy a ten minute blast from the past. use two browser windows and sing along!don’t forget the “shrooms”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDFKphodBQI
    Once the religious, the hunted and weary
    Chasing the promise of freedom and hope
    Came to this country to build a new vision
    Far from the reaches of kingdom and pope
    Like good Christians, some would burn the witches
    Later some got slaves to gather riches
    But still from near and far to seek America
    They came by thousands to court the wild
    And she just patiently smiled and bore a child
    To be their spirit and guiding light
    And once the ties with the crown had been broken
    Westward in saddle and wagon it went
    And ’til the railroad linked ocean to ocean
    Many the lives which had come to an end
    While we bullied, stole and bought our a homeland
    We began the slaughter of the red man
    But still from near and far to seek America
    They came by thousands to court the wild
    And she just patiently smiled and bore a child
    To be their spirit and guiding light
    The blue and grey they stomped it
    They kicked it just like a dog
    And when the war over
    They stuffed it just like a hog
    And though the past has it’s share of injustice
    Kind was the spirit in many a way
    But it’s protectors and friends have been sleeping
    Now it’s a monster and will not obey
    (Suicide)
    The spirit was freedom and justice
    And it’s keepers seem generous and kind
    It’s leaders were supposed to serve the country
    But now they won’t pay it no mind
    ‘Cause the people grew fat and got lazy
    And now their vote is a meaningless joke
    They babble about law and order
    But it’s all just an echo of what they’ve been told
    Yeah, there’s a monster on the loose
    It’s got our heads into a noose
    And it just sits there watchin’
    Our cities have turned into jungles
    And corruption is stranglin’ the land
    The police force is watching the people
    And the people just can’t understand
    We don’t know how to mind our own business
    ‘Cause the whole worlds got to be just like us
    Now we are fighting a war over there
    No matter who’s the winner
    We can’t pay the cost
    ‘Cause there’s a monster on the loose
    It’s got our heads into a noose
    And it just sits there watching
    (America)
    America where are you now?
    Don’t you care about your sons and daughters?
    Don’t you know we need you now
    We can’t fight alone against the monster

  302. messianicdruid January 11, 2011 at 12:38 pm #

    “Proof that socialism works, but directed toward death and destruction, instead of at life and tenderness.”
    Who said it didn’t work?

  303. wagelaborer January 11, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

    We are confusing the value of education here.
    Yes, there is intrinsic value in a good education, and it’s all for the social good to have educated people.
    But a college education today has been twisted into the only way possible to get a decent (i.e., good paying) job, and the scam is that 18 year olds are sold into debt servitude with the promise of being able to live better in the future than their degreeless age cohorts.
    And it is true that shortly before the “unforeseeable” financial meltdown, the banker’s employees in Congress passed a bankruptcy bill that made it much harder for the average American to go bankrupt, AND that made college loans unforgivable. These kids will be made to pay back those thousands of dollars no matter what.
    Number one – there is no reason that an uneducated person shouldn’t be able to make a decent living.
    Number two – since society benefits from educated people, higher education should be free to those who are intellectually talented.
    And the medical professions are no more part of the future than computer engineers, for American-born people.
    The “Health Care Reform Act” will cut into the amount of money going into the health care business, which has been suckling at the government teat second only to the military business in the last couple of decades.
    This will stop.
    The military business, however, will continue, joined now by Homeland Repression.
    If you want a lasting job, get into “security” work. http://learning.capella.edu/
    And the biggest bucks, of course, just like in the medical business, will be in the machinery of oppression.
    Chertoff is making millions from his Rape-a-Scan machine.
    Tasers? Big business. And sound cannons, microwave skin pain causers, and many more that we don’t know about are being financed as we speak.
    I feel like the guy advising Dustin Hoffman, but instead of plastics, I’m saying “repression, young man, that’s the future”.

  304. Belisarius January 11, 2011 at 12:49 pm #

    “Duhhhhhhhhh. It involves the ability to separate fantasy from reality.
    Most people are more than well equipped to make the distinction.”
    I would submit most people in this country still say they believe the government fantasy regarding 9/11. It was visable as a fantasy while it was happening and any logical examination of it will find it not credible. Thus i think you are incorrect. The majority either cannot seperate fantasy from reality, or worse, pretend to believe the fantasy when they know better so they do not have to respond to the reality.

  305. wagelaborer January 11, 2011 at 12:51 pm #

    I just answered the phone and it was a robo-call, asking if I had financial hardships?
    They wanted to help!
    OK, Homeland Repression is obviously not the only up-and-coming profession.
    Taking advantage of desperate in-debt people seems to be a winner also!

  306. Cash January 11, 2011 at 12:52 pm #

    Number one – there is no reason that an uneducated person shouldn’t be able to make a decent living. – Wage
    I’m cheering my ass off again Wage (in my mind).
    Yes, there is intrinsic value in a good education, and it’s all for the social good to have educated people. – Wage
    You’re right again. Just as long as these “educated” don’t make it a practice to look down their noses. Otherwise I’ll have to agree with the Chinese Communists, that a long stint for these “educated” busting their asses on a farm, would be beneficial in broadening their outlook and appreciating the roles played by others.

  307. stlhdr January 11, 2011 at 12:53 pm #

    “Yet he could still buy a gun LEGALLY in Arizona.”
    Another failure of Big Government. (Of course you would never make the connection.)
    Yep, you’d obviously need a bigger govt in Az to keep track of that data… moron.

  308. messianicdruid January 11, 2011 at 12:54 pm #

    “Yet he could still buy a gun LEGALLY in Arizona.”
    Perhaps the reason for the sherriff’s strong opinions {placing blame} is his lack of shame for not doing something.
    “House majority leader Eric Cantor (R) of Virginia, in a statement released last Saturday, announced that all legislation scheduled to be considered this week, including a vote to repeal the health-care reform law, is postponed “so that we can take whatever actions may be necessary in light of today’s tragedy.”
    http://areyoutargeted.com/2010/11/understanding-misdirection-through-the-prism-of-the-taxil-hoax/

  309. WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot January 11, 2011 at 12:57 pm #

    Excellent post this week.
    It’s a shame, but dark events really bring good, illuminating writing out of this blog.
    Jared was into some kooky stuff (apparently was a homosexual and into Satanism…tea party and white supremacy my ass), and it looks like he was no Unabomber in the writing and thinking departments.
    I think Jim took the shooter’s connection to our absurd money system about as far as it will go. I mean, I doubt this kid could even verbalize the problems with it, but he did seem aware of the chaos and unsustainability of the whole mess. That fact alone is troubling.
    Anyway, did anyone check out Prophets of Doom on the History Channel? I’m surprised it hasn’t been mentioned.
    JHK was prominently featured, and he made me proud to be a reader. I even called my older, father-of-4 brother to get him to watch it.
    I think the issues presented were very appropriate, and the weight attached to each was surprisingly thoughtful as well (I like the way the guy concerned about AI was educated on near-term issues, hah). Like I told my brother, this stuff was in the lunatic fringe just five years ago.
    My only gripe is that they didn’t do some LATOC-style illustrations of oil energy density, EROIE, portability, lifespan, etc., compared to “alternatives”. This for me was the clincher on understanding peak oil.
    Still, it was a good show and you guys should check it out.

  310. messianicdruid January 11, 2011 at 12:58 pm #

    “Thus i think you are incorrect.’
    So many paradigms, so little time.
    http://ofgoatsandmen.blogspot.com/2011/01/cia-asset-susan-lindauer-blows-whistle.html#comments

  311. old6699 January 11, 2011 at 12:59 pm #

    “But a college education today has been twisted into the only way possible to get a decent (i.e., good paying) job, and the scam is that 18 year olds are sold into debt servitude with the promise of being able to live better in the future than their degreeless age cohorts. ”
    Because they want to filter out people according to their “skills” or their “knowledge” or all that abstract, fluff, impossible to predict, define, measure and useless knowledge all those professional titles mean. Most of those college people in cubicles aren’t really doing any real work, just fluf, office meetings, marketing, swindles, etc.
    It is all a lie so the compaies can turn around and say you are not skilled enough and lay you off, you must “update” your knowledge to the new skills neede, etc.
    It is a way to make people feel completely powerless since the jobs they do are so meaningless and abstract and make believe, they are always in anxiety becasue the boss and company can can them for any or no reason at all.
    But they can lay off all those peole becasue the “work” they do is not needd and useless anyway.
    Like creating financial instruments ie subprime loans.
    As for you jimjim, you are a f*ktard, as*wipe that wants private health care instead of government paid health care for all. So I really hate you and all of those who still believe in this absurd, false myth of the benefits of private health care, what morons, I hope the american people finally wake up and crush all you types with exteme force.

  312. old6699 January 11, 2011 at 1:01 pm #

    “But a college education today has been twisted into the only way possible to get a decent (i.e., good paying) job, and the scam is that 18 year olds are sold into debt servitude with the promise of being able to live better in the future than their degreeless age cohorts. ”
    Because they want to filter out people according to their “skills” or their “knowledge” or all that abstract, fluff, impossible to predict, define, measure and useless knowledge all those professional titles mean. Most of those college people in cubicles aren’t really doing any real work, just fluff, office meetings, marketing, swindles, etc.
    It is all a lie so the companies can turn around and say you are not skilled enough and lay you off, you must “update” your knowledge to the new skills needed, etc. What a boatload of mega crap.
    It is a way to make people feel completely powerless since the jobs they do are so meaningless and abstract and make believe, they are always in anxiety because the boss and company can fire them for any or no reason at all.
    But they can lay off all those peole because the “work” they do is not needed and useless anyway.
    Like creating financial instruments ie subprime loans.
    As for you jimjim, you are a f*ktard, as*wipe that wants private health care instead of government paid health care for all. So I really hate you and all of those who still believe in this absurd, false myth of the benefits of private health care, what morons, I hope the american people finally wake up and crush all you types with exteme force.

  313. old6699 January 11, 2011 at 1:03 pm #

    I meant, Crush all you right wing thugs with extreme force and create a public – government paid and led health care system, paid for by taxes upon the rich: either you are for this or against this, it is really a total fight now, there is no more room for any compromise, either one side wins or the other, really.

  314. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 1:07 pm #

    “I would submit most people in this country still say they believe the government fantasy regarding 9/11. It was visable as a fantasy while it was happening and any logical examination of it will find it not credible. ”
    You wouldn’t be ascribing credence to the Rosie O’Donnel statement of “For the first time in the history of the world, steel melted.” school of knowledge would you?
    Here is a lovely nugget for your perusal:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_World_Trade_Center
    Of course we all know it was really George Bush’s false flag operation that brought the towers down. And he and the thousands who would have to remain in the know to pull such a venture off are still keeping this “secret” secret. (Excepting you and I who have figured this out.)
    Have a rational day.

  315. Qbala January 11, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    “I see your planned village up bringing has left you so very open minded to the views of those whom you do not agree with. Congratulations”
    You’ve been doing this the entire thread yourself, jj. “Jerk” is putting it mildly. Your treatment of fellow posters here, mainly Turkle, has been abysmal.
    To wit:
    “Yet he could still buy a gun LEGALLY in Arizona.”
    jj: Another failure of Big Government. (Of course you would never make the connection.)
    Wtf? What do you propose “small govt.” would do differently against the right-wing dominated NRA machine? Are you a libertarian?

  316. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 1:14 pm #

    “Yep, you’d obviously need a bigger govt in Az to keep track of that data… moron.”
    Hardly, fucktard. There were all sorts of signs indicating that this idiot was a ticking time bomb. The university prof. reported him to the admin. Students in his class were completely freaked out by him. The school admin. finally said get assessed or get out.
    The sherif’s depart was familiar with this nut as well.
    Plenty of government. Plenty of concern. Plenty of laws. But no one intervened. Why? Failure of existing govt not a lack of not having more.

  317. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 1:18 pm #

    “I meant, Crush all you right wing thugs with extreme force and create a public – government paid…”
    You are drooling 6699 (By the way is that your cell no. or what?)
    By crushing “right wing thugs” you’ll only jack up health care costs.
    You want to create something “government paid”? There is no such thing you idiot. Governments don’t pay for shit. Citizens do. (That is the roughly 50% who pay income tax. The rest pay no income tax.)

  318. stlhdr January 11, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

    Assclown, you equated Jared’s ability to buy a gun with the failure of big govt, not me. Now you want to point the blame at “no one intervened”. I guess it’s self evident that someone would have intervened if we had smaller govt. You’re a mental bankrupt, you poor sob.

  319. Lurker January 11, 2011 at 1:21 pm #

    You’re not too bright, are you?

  320. ladelfina January 11, 2011 at 1:22 pm #

    old6699, you are exactly correct. Many of the time- and energy-wasting certification processes have developed, also, in order to absorb the sheer amount of people walking around with nothing material to do in current society. At the same time people are living longer, our viable career time is effectively made shorter and shorter, to the point where it lasts about 20 years if one is lucky, rather than a normal adult lifetime. In Italy, people finish college at almost 30, while by 40 one becomes almost unemployable due to being too old (there is legalized age discrimination, with tax breaks favoring the hiring of young workers). And the fact is that it doesn’t matter, this hiring of inexperienced workers to do jobs beyond their capacity (“Wanted COBOL programmer, under 30 only” was one real ad), because—as you rightly point out—the end product doesn’t matter that much in the first place.
    If you have not read Ivan Illich, you might enjoy him. I have not read it yet, but he has a particular book called, I believe, The Disabling Professions. Many of his writings have overlapping themes, one of which is “radical monopolies”. Consider, as he did, even the lowest sorts of barriers to full social integration, such as requiring shoes in the classroom. In poor Central/South America, this immediately restricted the pool of eventual future job candidates to those rich enough to afford shoes in the first place.

  321. asia January 11, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    MLK advocated violence.
    Mandela was the head of terrorist ANC.
    draw your own conclusions!

  322. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    “you must “update” your knowledge to the new skills needed, etc. What a boatload of mega crap.”
    Yeah, heaven forbid someone should have to be current in their knowledge regarding their jobs.

  323. Qbala January 11, 2011 at 1:28 pm #

    Dedicated to jimjim (coutesty of Bartcop.com)
    You didn’t get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and appointed a President.
    You didn’t get mad when VP Cheney allowed Energy company officials to dictate energy Policy.
    You didn’t get mad when a covert CIA Operative was revealed.
    You didn’t get mad when the Patriot Act was passed.
    You didn’t get mad when we illegally invaded Iraq looking for WMD’S that didn’t exist.
    You didn’t get mad when we spent over 600 Billion dollars(and counting) on Iraq War.
    You didn’t get mad when over 10 billion dollars just disappeared in Iraq.
    You didn’t get mad when Bush was illegally wiretapping us at home and work.
    You didn’t get mad when Bush borrowed money to give to the oil companies.
    You didn’t get mad when we didn’t catch Bin Laden.
    You didn’t get mad when you saw the horrible Conditions at Walter Reed.
    You didn’t get mad when we let New Orleans drown.
    You didn’t get mad when Bush got close to 5,000 soldiers killed.
    You didn’t get mad when the deficit hit the trillion dollar mark.
    You finally got mad when—- The government decided that people in America deserved the right to see a doctor if they are sick.
    Illegal wars, pathological lying, corruption, torture, giving your tax dollars to super-rich, are all OK with you? But helping other Americans is the last straw?
    Seven presidents have tried to pass a Health Care Plan of some sort and have failed. None have had the “hate filled” opposition of this president.

  324. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 1:32 pm #

    Really? I didn’t get mad at any of the things you posted? How would you know that? You wouldn’t because you don’t know me. And thus your conclusion would indicate that you are a MORON.

  325. ladelfina January 11, 2011 at 1:35 pm #

    “The federal Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibits the possession of firearms by the mentally ill. So why was Mr. Loughner able to guy a gun?
    The ability to own a firearm is a constitutionally protected right, and depriving someone of that right involves a legal process. Under the 1968 law, a person must be declared mentally unfit by a court or have been committed to a mental institution to lose his or her right to possess firearms.”
    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/0110/Why-Jared-Loughner-was-allowed-to-buy-a-gun
    This is the only “big government” law applicable, since in AZ you don’t even need a permit to carry a concealed weapon.
    http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2010/04/16/20100416arizona-concealed-weapons-bill16-ON.html
    Does this sound to you like a problem of “too much government”?

  326. asia January 11, 2011 at 1:36 pm #

    ‘Secretary of State Clinton and the whole U.S. diplomatic corps spend ALL ..’
    what? its not the ‘vast right wing’ that she long ago had pointed the finger at, thats dropping the bombs?

  327. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 1:36 pm #

    But you bring up an interesting point. You say,
    “Seven presidents have tried to pass a Health Care Plan of some sort and have failed.”
    Any suggestions as to why this is the case?

  328. asia January 11, 2011 at 1:41 pm #

    what were ‘they’ suppose to do?
    arrest him for ‘being weird’? this young,gay, heavymetal luvvin satanist/ anarchist?
    also with regards to one of yr previuos posts on media, media is never ‘comsumed’. it may effect one but not thru consumption.
    since the killings the left medias been having a field day! predictably. had they described the killer the way i just did they would have been unable to have that field day.hahahahahah.
    the media doesnt want to portray gays as anything other than victims.

  329. asia January 11, 2011 at 1:43 pm #

    All media you consume

  330. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 1:44 pm #

    “”The federal Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibits the possession of firearms by the mentally ill. So why was Mr. Loughner able to guy a gun?”
    You can’t be this stupid. The students in his class, his professor, the sherif’ s department (and I’m guessing others who will come forward) were aware of his mental instability. Did anyone contact the myriad of existing agencies and say, “Houston…we have a problem?” No, it would appear that they did not. It was not a lack of agencies, laws or government employees. There were already an abundance of all. It was a lack of action by any single individual. Period.

  331. asia January 11, 2011 at 1:48 pm #

    I cant find the post here about ‘legless tattooed soldiers’ ..who posted it?

  332. asia January 11, 2011 at 1:52 pm #

    as on 1970?, [forget which book i read this in] the weather underground, sds, etc were doing 3 to 10 bobmings a week!

  333. stlhdr January 11, 2011 at 1:52 pm #

    I love the way an Assclown like yourself presumes no one tried to take any action. Not only would someone need to drop a dime, the incident prompting said dime would need to be of a nature that would satisfy the law in regards to dispossessing this person of their civil rights… a large burden of proof. Was there ever a dime dropped? I don’t know, but I’m sure you do.

  334. lbendet January 11, 2011 at 1:55 pm #

    If you missed “Prophets of Doom last week on the Discovery Channel, YouTube has it missing the first
    10 minutes:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSpLUpiMkj0
    I’m listening to it, but working at the same time, so haven’t actually been watching.

  335. myrtlemay January 11, 2011 at 1:58 pm #

    I watched “Prophets of Doom” the other day (free on Youtube – think I googled it), and it was amazingly good and thought provoking discussions all around. JHK gets his point across in no uncertain terms (as if anyone could keep Jim from driving home his point). What I found amazing was the fact that the History Channel changed the title of the show from “The Futurists” to “Prophets of Doom”. Then I thought more about it, and realized that they probably felt they had to frame it that way to avoid freaking people out.
    Not to beat a dead horse, but damn-straight I was freaked out by Peak Oil when I first read Jim’s book. Its repurcussions for all of us is beyond alarming and completely unsettling. Cannot tell you how many times I’ve let my guard down in conversing with people and “let fly” with all the not-so-neato things acomin our way to a theatre near you. I read folks facial expressions and can tell what they’re thinking: “Dear god, this poor, demented old woman…just, er..smile at her..no, wait, don’t do that…look concerned and shake your head…yeah, she’s beginning to shut up now. Keep shaking.”

  336. myrtlemay January 11, 2011 at 2:01 pm #

    Thanks lbendt for providing that link to all the good CNF’ers!

  337. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 2:03 pm #

    “I love the way an Assclown like yourself presumes no one tried to take any action.”
    Hey fucklips,
    The nut job, Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, has said on record that little Jared had made death threats to others. The FUCKING PROVERBIAL “BALL” was dropped. Now, Shut the Fuck UP.

  338. stlhdr January 11, 2011 at 2:10 pm #

    Ok assclown, you’ve proven your point. You know that young Jared did something that would have had him committed in a court of law. Do tell, we’d all like to know what was missed. What was that event?

  339. stlhdr January 11, 2011 at 2:13 pm #

    For the record, I don’t doubt that Jared probably could have, and no doubt should have, been under pyschiatric treatment of some type. I just like to point out the absurdities of assclowns once in a while.

  340. old6699 January 11, 2011 at 2:13 pm #

    I meant, Crush all you right wing thugs with extreme force and create a public – government paid and led health care system, paid for by taxes upon the rich: either you are for this or against this, it is really a total fight now, there is no more room for any compromise, either one side wins or the other, really.
    Paid by TAXES UPON THE RICH
    And actually paid by taxes in general, taxes everyone should pay, but higher rates for those making 60,000 a year or more. Do you understand, enemy ? Do you understand right wing nutcase – thug ? Why does it work well in Finland, Sweden, JAPAN, etc, but in the US it can’t ?
    And as I said, I am not against there being private hospitals, doctors etc. If you have the cash go buy it, it wouldn’t be outlawed, but you give the public option to everyone for free (even though paid by taxes).
    You are another brainwashed right wing thug that will eventually be crushed.

  341. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 2:13 pm #

    No. Fuck you. You rant on and on. I proved you incorrect. You want more? Why? So you can be proven to be a bigger idiot? Case closed.

  342. asia January 11, 2011 at 2:15 pm #

    Puerto Rican terrorists that put a hit on congress inside the capitol building last century and were pardoned by one Billy Clinton
    …………..thanks for reminding us!

  343. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 2:16 pm #

    “For the record, I don’t doubt that Jared probably could have, and no doubt should have, been under pyschiatric treatment of some type. ”
    Well if you feel that way then you are admitting that “all the kings horses and all the kings men” FUCKED UP.
    Then you say:
    ” I just like to point out the absurdities of assclowns once in a while.”
    Well you have done that, assclown. You have proven that you are absurd. Good job.

  344. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 2:19 pm #

    “but you give the public option to everyone for free (even though paid by taxes).”
    Once again if it is “paid for by taxes” it isn’t FREE. For freeloaders it may be free but it isn’t FREE.

  345. asia January 11, 2011 at 2:19 pm #

    he had a bad enough reputation to be banned from the campus of his local JC.

  346. stlhdr January 11, 2011 at 2:20 pm #

    What happened to “case closed”? I wish you’d shut up shutting up, assclown. LOL.

  347. old6699 January 11, 2011 at 2:21 pm #

    Exactly what specific skills must the 100,000 workers at JP Morgan be updated in ? New programming languages (that do the same old things with a different syntax but serve to kick out older expert programmers because the companies want to hire cheap h1b types) ? New meeting styles ? New IPAD apps to do the same oldidiotic financial tricks they have been doing in the last 20 years ?
    You really think all those workers in skyscrapers ae producing something other than fluf, make believe stuff, but most of all status relatiionships – office politics ?
    And all the new fairy tale skills and languages and procedures , and “processes”, “workflows”, “presentations”, and all the new innovations serve to create new jobs for new trainers, colleges, with the myth of lifelong learning, lifelong college attendance (and hefty price) when the end result is trillions of dollars of debt and thousands of layoffs of older, now useless engineers, programmers, financial analysts, etc.
    You really believe in all of this corporate boatload of mega crap ?
    I can’t believe it…

  348. ladelfina January 11, 2011 at 2:22 pm #

    “…the burning of Watts…the Chicago Police riots…Seattle…the Weather Underground”
    1.) the bulk of that shit was 40 years ago or more. If a Republican congressmen had gotten shot at that time, hell yeah, the violent climate on the left would have been blamed, and rightly so!! Who’s saying anything different?
    2.) The violent groups you name are/were FRINGE ELEMENTS. I don’t recall Huey Newton or Abbie Hoffman being paid millions of dollars to be on TV/radio for hours each day exhorting people to kill conservatives, the way Limbaugh, Coulter, etc. tell people to kill liberals.
    3.) Not only do we hear eliminationist rhetoric from “infotainment” figures, we hear it from OFFICIALS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. This is a mainstreaming of violence that just has no parallels in modern US history of the left or right!
    Remember the Senate candidate who recommended “Second Amendment remedies”? How about the congressional candidate who fired shots at a silhouette with his opponent’s initials on it? Or maybe the congressional candidate who declared, “If I could issue hunting permits, I would officially declare today opening day for liberals. The season would extend through November 2 and have no limits on how many taken as we desperately need to ‘thin’ the herd”? Or how about the congressional candidate who said he considered the violent overthrow of the United States to government an “option” and added that political violence is “on the table”?
    All four of these examples came from 2010 — and all came from Republican candidates for federal elected office. And this doesn’t even get into Republican activists and media personalities.

    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2011_01/027471.php
    (citation links in the original post)

  349. asia January 11, 2011 at 2:22 pm #

    LL…..wait a minnit!
    I live near santa monica pier. a few days ago 25,000 people showed up to rally for the football team..the badgers.
    so maybe 50,000 people traveled from WISCONSIN
    to wear red, get drunk, and go to the rosebowl!

  350. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 2:22 pm #

    “What happened to “case closed”?”
    It got reopened fucktard. The retarded line of reasoning was so egregious to thinking people that the court ordered the case to be reopened. Capiche?

  351. asia January 11, 2011 at 2:23 pm #

    ‘I have confidence that they will meet the challenges of our future of Peak Everything.’
    we dont! peak everything is upon us 7 billion on earth!

  352. Qbala January 11, 2011 at 2:23 pm #

    “those whom you do not agree with.”
    Why are you even on this thread, then? JHK’s “Geography of Nowhere” lays out the case for planned (often referred to as “tight knit”) communities and how they nourish the body public – in concise detail.
    Go find solace at the heritage foundation or red state blogs. I am not clear how right wingers find much in common with JHK’s positions, and why they even come here. Livable (aka “walkable/bikable”), self-contained, transit oriented community planning is viewed as the socialist liberal fringe – just look at transportation marker bills for such and where the Ds and Rs line up.
    William Lind and the late Paul Weyrich are the only two conservatives I know that actually get it, in the fact that our ill-conceived, car-centric transportation system is the most massively govt subsidized mode by a long shot, heavily penalizing all citizens through taxes – even those who don’t drive. Non-motorized transportation options, on the other hand, are quintessential conservative, requiring a relative pittance in govt subsidies. These are usually designed into the fabric of these “villages” you abhor, as the case in Radburn built in 1929.

  353. stlhdr January 11, 2011 at 2:24 pm #

    Well if you feel that way then you are admitting that “all the kings horses and all the kings men” FUCKED UP.
    And your argument seems to be that if the king had less horses and men it wouldn’t have happened. Rather incoherent, don’t ya think?

  354. ladelfina January 11, 2011 at 2:27 pm #

    “contact the myriad of existing agencies”
    All of whom can do exactly nothing under the existing gun laws unless the person has gone through the process of being found mentally incompetent in court.
    If you were his neighbor, or his teacher, are you going to personally take this guy to court?? Do tell.

  355. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 2:27 pm #

    “The violent groups you name are/were FRINGE ELEMENTS.”
    Could be. But I was at least able to mention violent MORONS who were not “right wingers.” Would you care to name “right wingers” who have done the violence you suggest? (Fringe or otherwise)

  356. stlhdr January 11, 2011 at 2:31 pm #

    Could be. But I was at least able to mention violent MORONS who were not “right wingers.” Would you care to name “right wingers” who have done the violence you suggest? (Fringe or otherwise)
    Nazi Party
    Knights of the Klan
    Blackwater
    CIA
    et al

  357. stlhdr January 11, 2011 at 2:36 pm #

    Harry Bennett (Hank Ford’s hired muscle)
    Carnegie (Homestead)

  358. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 2:37 pm #

    “These are usually designed into the fabric of these “villages” you abhor..”
    You really aren’t very bright. I have nothing against villages. I hail from one and plan on returning to a walkable version (hopefully without your presence on the street) in the near future.
    My initial mentioning of the word was in reference to the “it takes a village” mentality of rearing children. (First popularized by our former first lady, Hillary Clinton.) I brought it up because I feel that people often use this mind set to escape from the personal responsibilities they should be assuming within their own families.
    So,shut up.

  359. Qbala January 11, 2011 at 2:37 pm #

    “Really? I didn’t get mad at any of the things you posted? How would you know that?”
    Easy. Post a link to a conservative blog archive – anytime during bush’s 2 terms – that has you ranting and raving like a f–king idiot about those things in the list. Any of ’em. In the same tone you are here.
    You’re either seriously deluded and starved for attention, or a paid shrill for the teabag party to be hanging around this site.

  360. stlhdr January 11, 2011 at 2:39 pm #

    He’s an internet bully. He compensates digitally here for whatever abuse he’s gettin in real life…

  361. ragtop January 11, 2011 at 2:41 pm #

    Gotta love any discourse that includes the words Fucktard, Moron and Ass Clown. I love this place.
    RIPPLEDTHUNDER, thanks for the blast from the past. I’d forgotten how great the lyrics of John Kay were. Remarkable guy, for a vagabond immigrant. Saving his part of Eden, one elephant at a time. Where are the great lyrics in todays music? It’s all so shallow and white bread.

  362. jackieblue2u January 11, 2011 at 2:42 pm #

    Yep ! SHOCK SHOCK !
    NOT !

  363. Qbala January 11, 2011 at 2:42 pm #

    “My initial mentioning of the word was in reference to the “it takes a village” mentality of rearing children.”
    That is completely ridiculous and probably taken out of context. Just like Gore said “I invented the internet”, which was complete BS. I know of NO ONE who would subscribe to that thinking, even in the farthest left universe.
    Only a complete idiot would believe a village – by itself – replaces parenting. It greatly enhances parenting.
    Send a link to her statement, I would like to see it.

  364. Lurker January 11, 2011 at 2:43 pm #

    I think it’s because he’s not gettin’ any in real life…

  365. JonathanSS January 11, 2011 at 2:43 pm #

    “Turkle, you are an awesome contributor to this forum – keep up the great work. Very insightful, well researched, thought provoking comments.”
    I agree.

  366. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 2:43 pm #

    First you say (regarding my list):
    “The bulk of that shit was 40 years ago or more.”
    And now you want to bring up NAZIS and the Clan? Oh, yeah they seem to be real active in today’s community.
    Then you mention the CIA. This is an organization that has been under the control of both liberal and conservative administrations and you are going to give them the assignation of “right wing?” Ah, sure…if you say so.

  367. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 2:46 pm #

    “Easy. Post a link to a conservative blog archive – anytime during bush’s 2 terms – that has you ranting and raving like a f–king idiot about those things in the list.”
    Well go ahead and do that. You have my permission. Find and post these links that exist in your head.

  368. jackieblue2u January 11, 2011 at 2:48 pm #

    SAD AND TRUE.
    What HOPE is there for most of the younger generation ?
    No Future = Mental Illness…..I agree.
    Depressing.
    I can barely imagine being young these days. Being born into such difficult times. It should bring families closer together, but we all know that isn’t gonna happen, for 99%.
    Things are a Mess.

  369. stlhdr January 11, 2011 at 2:48 pm #

    This was relatively recent good stuff:
    A quarter after two
    Sittin’ in my car, watching
    Waiting on a train
    Ninety-seven flatcars
    Loaded down with troop trucks and tanks
    Rolling by
    I’m twenty-one, and I’m scared as hell
    I quit school, I’m healthy as a horse
    Because of all that I’ll be the first one to die in a war
    The whole damn town was sleeping
    Dreaming the same dream
    The radio was playing
    Roger McWilliams singing
    “To each and every thing there’s a time and a season
    I’m twenty-one, and I’m scared as hell
    I quit school, I’m healthy as a horse
    Because of all that I’ll be the first one to die in a war
    Yes, I have the right to say
    We all die anyway
    But I’d just like to know
    Where does my time go
    Uncle Tupelo

  370. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 2:50 pm #

    “You’re either seriously deluded and starved for attention, or a paid shrill for the teabag party to be hanging around this site.”
    This is a very original argument. If someone doesn’t agree with your nonsense than they could only be the above. Sure, cause after all, YOU say so. (Yawn.)

  371. jackieblue2u January 11, 2011 at 2:54 pm #

    Well I hope the kids are alright.
    Some are, probably depending on their parents, and how they interact, with eachother and the kids.
    I just know that what I see The Kids mostly are NOT allright.
    But I am sure you and I live in different areas.
    and ‘worlds.’
    My niece and nephew both graduated from Universities, and they ARE allright. I am so glad for them. But they had great parents. Postive productive people. Who mostly got along with eachother.
    So many parents are just not fit to be parents IMO. And that ‘s the problem with the kids today.

  372. stlhdr January 11, 2011 at 2:55 pm #

    “Easy. Post a link to a conservative blog archive – anytime during bush’s 2 terms – that has you ranting and raving like a f–king idiot about those things in the list.”
    Well go ahead and do that. You have my permission. Find and post these links that exist in your head.”
    “Really? I didn’t get mad at any of the things you posted? How would you know that? You wouldn’t because you don’t know me. And thus your conclusion would indicate that you are a MORON.”
    Whatta maroon you are, assclown. You were supposed to provide the links. LOL. You were asked to prove that you were angry about ANY of the things on the list.

  373. jackieblue2u January 11, 2011 at 2:57 pm #

    Yep. another shock shock.
    There was a guy (OBVIOUSLY unstable and ready to BLOW). He DID. Shot a Police Dog and then he was blown to smitherines.
    But the guy was trouble. Thing is I guess nothing can be done UNTIL someone gets hurt. (like in ‘domestic’ violence cases.
    I knew the guy was gonna blow, who could I or should I have told ? That would have been able to do anything ?
    I don’t know the answer.
    Bothers me.

  374. JonathanSS January 11, 2011 at 2:57 pm #

    jimjim says: “Another failure of Big Government. (Of course you would never make the connection.)”
    More black and white and faulty cause and effect thinking. The NRA has no power or influence?

  375. Hancock1863 January 11, 2011 at 2:58 pm #

    I know I shouldnt feed the trolls, but this one is sooooo easy.
    Not that it will matter, Teabaggers and other assorted Hannidiots are as immune from non-Party approved facts as the RW Nazis who’s spiritual descendants they are.
    So, are you ready, JimJim? First, I’m gonna give you a big ol’ hit of Teabagger Viagra, then I’ll cool ya’ down with that long dumb list of facts that will put you to sleep and set your mind awhirl as all your Beckian Programming activates in sequence.
    First the Teabagger Viagra, which I suggest everybody read. It’s the letter than that RW Murderer of Liberals at the Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville wrote to explain himself.
    You can thank me later, jimjim, for there is no way on Earth you won’t enjoy this and I bet you’ll get a stiffy because so many of you homophobic RW Authoritarian Followers are actually secret homosexuals. Ted Haggard to name one. You to name another.
    Here’s the Teabag Viagra for you, nancy boy.
    http://web.knoxnews.com/pdf/021009church-manifesto.pdf
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_Unitarian_Universalist_church_shooting
    Now, the partial long LOOOONG list of recent RW domestic terror attacks and some thwarted attacks.
    Richard Poplawski:
    The 2009 Pittsburgh police shootings was a shootout that took place on Saturday, April 4, 2009, at 1016 Fairfield Street in the Stanton Heights neighborhood of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States, stemming from an argument over a dog urinating in the house between a mother and her 22-year-old son. At approximately 7:11 a.m. EDT, 22-year-old Richard Poplawski opened fire on two Pittsburgh Police officers responding to a 911 call from Poplawski’s mother, who was attempting to get the police officers to remove her son from the home. Three police officers were ultimately confirmed dead, and another two were seriously injured.
    Edward Perkovic, a friend of Poplawski, said the gunman feared “the Obama gun ban that’s on the way” and “didn’t like our rights being infringed upon”. Perkovic also stated that Poplawski “didn’t like the Zionists controlling the media and controlling, you know, our freedom of speech” and that “He didn’t like the control of the guns that was about to happen. He believed everything our forefathers put before us and thought that it was being distorted.” Another longtime friend, Aaron Vire, said that Poplawski feared President Obama was going to take away his rights.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Pittsburgh_police_sho
    Jim Adkisson:
    On July 27, 2008, a politically motivated fatal shooting took place at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee, United States. Motivated by a desire to kill liberals and Democrats, gunman Jim David Adkisson fired a shotgun at members of the congregation during a youth performance of a musical, killing two people and wounding seven others.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_Unitarian_Univer
    Scott Roeder:
    On May 31, 2009, George Tiller, a physician from Wichita, Kansas who was nationally known for being one of the few doctors in the United States to perform late-term abortions, was shot and killed by Scott Roeder, an anti-abortion activist. Tiller was killed during a Sunday morning service at his church, where he was serving as an usher. Multiple action groups and media figures have labeled Tiller’s killing an act of domestic terrorism, and an assassination
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_George_Ti
    Byron Williams:
    OAKLAND, Calif. (CBS/KPIX/AP) A California man accused in a shootout with California Highway Patrol officers in Oakland early Sunday told officials that he traveled to San Francisco and planned to attack two nonprofit groups there “to start a revolution,” according to a probable cause statement released by police.
    Bryon Williams, 45, a convicted felon with two prior bank robbery convictions, targeted workers at the American Civil Liberties Union and the Tides Foundation, said Oakland police Sgt. Michael Weisenberg in court documents.
    Williams’ mother, Janice Williams, said to the San Francisco Chronicle that her son was angry with “the way Congress was railroading through all these left-wing agenda items.”
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20011219-504083….
    Williams wounded two officers before being taken into custody. He later said his intention was to “start a revolution.” Williams gives much of the credit to Fox’s Glenn Beck for the conspiracy theory that led him to his violent actions.
    Williams said Beck would not advocate violence, “but he’ll give you every ounce of evidence that you could possibly need.”
    http://mediamatters.org/blog/201010150024
    The Hutaree Militia:
    Hutaree (pronounced /hu??t?ri?/ ( listen)) is a militia movement group adhering to the Christian Patriot movement, based in Adrian, Michigan, in the United States.
    The group was formed in early 2008. The name “Hutaree” appears to be a neologism; the group’s web site says that it means “Christian warriors”.
    The group was allegedly preparing for what they believed would be an apocalyptic battle with the forces of the Antichrist, who they believed would be supported and defended by local, state and federal police departments. On their website, all police and military members who would support the current U.S. system of local, state or federal government were described as members of the “brotherhood”, and were considered by the Hutaree to be “enemies”.
    From March 28 to March 30, 2010, nine people thought to be Hutaree members were arrested in police raids in Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana (in Hammond), for their alleged involvement in a plot to kill various police officers and possibly civilians using illegal explosives and/or firearms.
    According to a recent report by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), the doctrines of such groups are often fueled by a certain “anger over the changing demographics of the country, the soaring public debt, the troubled economy and an array of initiatives by President Barack Obama that have been branded ‘socialist’ or even ‘fascist’ by the heated rhetoric of his political opponents.” Another SPLC report notes that the number of U.S. militia groups like the Hutaree have increased three-fold since 2008 (from 42 in 2008 to 127 in 2009), and the number of sympathetic groups has doubled in the same two-year period.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutaree
    Jerry and Joe Kane:
    Police killers identified as activists on mission to spread anti-government message
    In the final moments of their lives, West Memphis Police Department veterans Brandon Paudert and Bill Evans encountered Thursday an old white Plymouth Voyager minivan carrying 16-year-old Joe Kane and his 45-year-old father, Jerry R. Kane — a man who unbeknownst to them harbored extreme anti-government views. He also had a record of previous trouble with police and a philosophy, which he credited to the Bible, of applying overwhelming violence to “conquer” foes.
    Potok said a check of the Southern Poverty center’s databases found no mention of Kane, but that he clearly was at least influenced by extreme right-wing organizations. “Without question, Jerry Kane was mouthing some of the core ideas of anti-government, Patriot movement,” Potok said.
    http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/may/21/relati… /

    =================================================
    Sometimes, a normal person when confronted with such a overwhelming wall of indisputable fact would have a little decency and find some way to honorably admit they were wrong while saving face.
    But that’s not how you and the Teabags roll, jimjim, is it? The wronger you are, the more DEMONSTRABLY wronger you are, the louder and more confident you get. Excellent marketing skills. Somewhere, some boss is very happy with your arrogantly shameless ability to keep on message no matter how full of shit you are revealed to be.
    Don’t expect me to respond to you further. I busted you, so completely and totally, and I gave you a little queer wood in your pants to boot, Nancy, when you read that letter and thought of the murdered liberals and your hero Adkisson, who’s letter you almost certainly 100% agree with in what passes for a heart inside you, not than you’d ever dare admit it in public, coward.
    All you possibly have left to be able to do is misidrect, insult (fucktard fucktard fucktard) and your usual blithery. Not worth engaging further. Even Cartman can do better than that.
    Hope you enjoy Adkission’s letter, Nancy.
    (apologies to any homosexuals on CFN – we all know there’s nothing that a homophobic repressed homosexual like Ted “jimjim” Haggard hates more tnan being discovered – please take my post in that vane, if possible – if not, once again, my apologies)

  376. jackieblue2u January 11, 2011 at 2:59 pm #

    Maybe in some cases showing these people some
    TENDERNESS would help.
    And I mean that. I also know that in some cases NOTHING helps.
    But won’t hurt you to try a little tenderness.
    I DO believe THAT is part of the problem here with these people who shoot people.

  377. ladelfina January 11, 2011 at 3:12 pm #

    “name “right wingers” who have done the violence you suggest? ”
    http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/guns-democracy-and-freedom/insurrection-timeline

  378. Qbala January 11, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

    “So, are you ready, JimJim? First, I’m gonna give you a big ol’ hit of Teabagger Viagra”
    No need – he’s already a “hardened criminal”, like the rest in the list. LOL
    Here’s a nice neat addendum. These are a different kind of gun, tho’ – Cock 9mm’s among other sizes: http://www.rickross.com/groups/clergy.html

  379. JonathanSS January 11, 2011 at 3:27 pm #

    Thanks for posting “Insurrectionism Timeline”.
    What is with these US citizens who think they could take on motivated Marines and the rest of our vaunted military with their rifles and pistols?

  380. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 3:31 pm #

    I looked through your post rather quickly (quite right so) and believe that there was only one group in your listing. The rest were singular individuals. I also (and it was a quick read) think I detect an extreme level of instability in the individuals cited.
    The original statement that I responded to was:
    “The fact that the right wing can’t tell the difference between solving problems socially rather than solving them using violence…”
    I challenged this. I found it absurd that someone could make this claim. It implies that the right wing only resorts to violence, that those on the right never solve problems socially. That is absurd.
    I then listed those who are not “right wing” who have resorted to using violence. Why? Because violence comes from both ends of the spectrum. However, organized violence, involving large numbers of people does seem to emanate from the left side of the spectrum. The samples I gave were large incidents that received international attention. Furthermore, if you want to enlarge the discussion, what has been taking place in the streets of Greece and England and Ireland and Spain regarding unruly crowd ain’t “right wingers” smashing windows and faces.
    If you want to attribute “right wing” violence to a guy whose dog was peeing on a rug and claim that as some kind of relationship to the “right” and violence, you be my guest. But you risk looking like and idiot in doing so.
    And this coming from a guy who starts out saying:
    “I know I shouldnt feed the trolls, but this one is sooooo easy.”
    What a maroon.

  381. stlhdr January 11, 2011 at 3:38 pm #

    Maroon? Assclown? You’re a parrot!

  382. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 3:40 pm #

    “Don’t expect me to respond to you further. I busted you, so completely and totally, and I gave you a little queer wood in your pants to boot, Nancy…”
    Yiiiikes. This a a bit creepy. And I thought buggery assignations came from the “right wing?” Are you sure your “handle” (how appropriate in your instance) shouldn’t be Hand-cock instead of HANCOCK? Just asking, studboy.

  383. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 3:43 pm #

    “You’re a parrot!”
    My lord I can’t take the put down.

  384. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 3:48 pm #

    “(apologies to any homosexuals on CFN – we all know there’s nothing that a homophobic repressed homosexual like Ted “jimjim” Haggard hates more tnan being discovered…”
    Well, well, how revealing (in a not so disguised, disguised sort of way). Now we discover your true issues. But thats OK. There is room for all in this society of ours, Hand-on-cock, even you.

  385. jackieblue2u January 11, 2011 at 3:59 pm #

    Very good documentary by Terrance McKenna, at least one of the four parts that I saw he was a major player. I think he wrote it.
    Working my way thru the 4 parts.
    Thanks for posting.

  386. jackieblue2u January 11, 2011 at 4:06 pm #

    IF only more people thought like you and me.
    It’s common sense and it is the Right thing to do,
    Programs like you say are indeed: Preventative Medicine, and cost much less than After TSHTF.
    I wish it was the way you say it should be, I agree with you.

  387. jackieblue2u January 11, 2011 at 4:12 pm #

    Not to mention 150 THOUSAND IAD injuries.
    Head injuries from being blown up, and other body parts and PTSD.
    No other war like it. So much damage to so many.
    Except the Monsters who started it. I’ll leave that to your imagination. But it WASN’T the kids fighting it ! That is my point.

  388. Qbala January 11, 2011 at 4:18 pm #

    Heeeeere, jimmy jimmy jimmy. You didn’t answer me. Qbala still waiting for answer . . are you a libertarian? I think it’s a fair question, considering your extreme right wing views.
    If we were neighbors, could I build a section-8 high rise and a homeless shelter in my yard, and I wouldn’t have to worry about a damn thing because you believe gub’mint has no business telling me what to do on my property?

  389. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 4:34 pm #

    First you answer a question. What is it about my views that you would categorize as extreme right wing? And I am asking you to be specific.

  390. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 4:44 pm #

    Most likely the “gub’mint” (and why you use this negative colloquial term, for an institution I presume you love is confusing) would be building section-8 housing next to me not you. Although when it happens I suppose you could move in and be my neighbor.

  391. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 4:46 pm #

    I mean you DO qualify for section 8 housing don’t you?

  392. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 4:49 pm #

    Heeeere Qbala, Qbala, Qbala…I’m waiting. (Not really)

  393. jimjim January 11, 2011 at 4:50 pm #

    (Aw shit, she must be standing in a food pantry somewhere waiting on her hand-out. Whatever….)

  394. Buck Stud January 11, 2011 at 5:23 pm #

    I now know the Miller Moth thrives in winter, sullying nearly all the light. From Moth to Guttersnipe and back again- what a life.

  395. ladelfina January 11, 2011 at 6:00 pm #

    Listen to the language employed by Jeff McQueen, a tea party “leader” widely interviewed on national radio. A self-proclaimed defender of the “House of Liberty,” McQueen told NPR: “We have a choice of four boxes if we want to make political change in this country. We can go to the soap box, we can go to the ballot box, or we can go to the jury box, and hopefully, we won’t have to go to the bullet box.”
    An astonished show host Tom Ashbrook responded: “Bullet box! Are you talking about armed revolution?”
    McQueen answered in his blankly confident way, “Have you seen ammunition sales in the last 12 months?”

    http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/01/11/1497294/sorry-mr-speaker-but-attack-wasnt.html

  396. Funzel January 11, 2011 at 6:48 pm #

    Did I read correctly that Giffords was a member of the tribe that Wolfowitz,
    Greenspan,Blankfein and all the other thieves and subversives belong too?
    No wonder all that screeching and howling,next thing you know if Barney Frank dies,we’ll have a state funeral.

  397. Qbala January 11, 2011 at 7:11 pm #

    Your big ass jumps all over any comment in here that touches on, or even suggests competence in govt. Sure sounds like a teabooger, right wingnut to me.
    Are really going to deny this?

  398. Headless January 11, 2011 at 7:12 pm #

    THIS, the shooting, is Blowback–in the CIA/Chalmers Johnson sense of the word; though, this time, the innocent victim upon which our government perpetrated its illegal acts just happened to be one of the millions of citizens of the U.S.
    Had Government Sachs not been in the middle of a multi-decade Saching of the American Middle Class, does anyone really think Jared Lee Loughner would have ever come upon the idea to kill that part of the beast that darkened his world? Really now.
    Someone should write it: Christina Taylor Green: Born to Blowback

  399. jrheadrick1 January 11, 2011 at 7:18 pm #

    THIS OUGHTA EXPLAIN THE SWINDLE!
    The ultimate treasure map
    Excavating the path to uniting
    the universe in mutual respect
    By John Kaminski
    pseudoskylax@gmail.com
    http://johnkaminski.info/
    Religion and the Federal Reserve are a lot alike. They both sell you
    something you already own. This deception produced the slave society
    we live in today.
    What do we yearn for most? Peace of mind. What achieves that? Health.
    How is that maintained? Proper nutrition and exercise. What about
    happiness? That is the most important ingredient. It is obtained
    solely through sense of purpose — having an unshakable belief in that
    what you are doing is the right thing.
    Yet, since the dawn of time, these things have eluded us. Thus, it
    makes the most sense to elude those things that prevent us from
    achieving what we yearn for most — right? Doesn’t it?
    And so, in a dim room on a cloudy afternoon, you pull an old book from
    a dusty shelf in the library of your mind and open it to the cobwebbed
    page that is your life — and out pops the map you’ve always been
    looking for!
    What is preventing me from achieving the things I desire most, and
    achieving a level of happiness within reason of reality, yet close
    enough to heaven to at least provide my minimum standards of civilized
    security? And most of all, to provide that happy home that I can build
    myself with no assistance from anyone, other than those friends I have
    made in this life who value me as much as I value them. But as all of
    us know, you can study this book for years and still not ever see what
    the real problem is.
    For most of us less fortunates, it has taken decades of study to
    figure out what’s really happening in and to the world. It’s not
    primarily because we were stupid, but because the information we were
    able to dig out had already been tailored, manipulated, to conceal the
    real history from us, which is why Eustace Mullins is such an
    important writer, because he chronicles this in elaborately disturbing
    detail.
    Not only does the fearsome shadow of a behind-the-scenes financial
    monster powered by drugs and slaves first raise its ugly head some 400
    years ago in, of all places, England, this pattern of organized
    depravity — a desire to wreak vengeance as retribution from some
    injury so long ago it is forgotten — is visible throughout the
    spectrum of human endeavor, which is how, in the evolution of
    humanity, money has replaced god as the most popular measure of
    happiness down where the rubber meets the road.
    Despite an uncountable number of meaningless words in praise of
    nobility, honor and loyalty uttered since that time, this is the
    out-of-control beast that rules us now, a beast whose thoughtform has
    metastasized from a genuine wish to improve one’s own security into a
    humongous gangrenous tumor that is about to burst and engulf the world
    in its poison pus. And I dearly wish I could say I was merely being
    metaphorical.
    So, the treasure map tells us that the first move in our quest to
    pursue the very purpose of our being here is to understand who and
    what to elude in order to continue on the path to the treasure, which
    I don’t have to explain to you, because you are already intimate with
    the details of your own wishes.
    And once you realize that elude in this sense means exclude, you have
    taken the first step toward rearranging in your mind — by excluding
    all the sources that have previously put poison ideas into your head.
    When you do that, at least you’ll know you’re on the right road
    because the quality of the information you receive immediately gets
    better. Most of all when delegitimizing mainstream media in your own
    mind, you find yourself suddenly free of annoying things you never had
    any wish to hear, as well as suddenly deprived of the false
    information of mainstream news, and its neverending appeals to make
    you terrified of the real world so they can sell you a higher volume
    of the unnecessary products they sell.
    Now we have one thought to unite all the peoples of the world, in
    which every decent person in the world can get together on this
    project and enthusiastically cheer it on, if not participate in the
    execution of its plan. It’s exactly what we’ve been looking for. This
    is it.
    One belief, one explanation to all that has gone wrong with our evolution.
    And one objective: to free humanity from its semiconscious and
    self-destructive rituals and to release everyone into the most amazing
    jewel of all — themselves, suddenly free to build the world they
    always dreamed of.
    With no one holding them back.
    How could this possibly be achieved?
    The answer is simple, because the answer is the same to all of the
    following questions, and it is an answer all the people in the world
    may endorse wholeheartedly, unless of course their paycheck happens to
    come from the very group we’re talking about.
    1. Who controls our government and leads it into foreign wars of no
    basic interest to America’s people?
    2. Which group, known worldwide for its expertise in false flag
    operations — committing bloodcurdling crimes that are afterwards
    blamed on someone other than them — manipulated the American
    government into killing 3,000 of its own innocent civilians in a
    single day just to show the world who’s really boss?
    2. Who guides our government into hypocritical decisions that make it
    approve foods and drugs that are dangerous to our health?
    3. Who taught the government to rob its own citizens in order to feed
    the habit of rich foreign bankers who have no interest in America at
    all?
    4. Who taught us that women should not be mothers, but rather be
    businesswomen, and so sharp that they actually take jobs away from
    men?
    5. Who taught men that they should be more sensitive like women, and
    that homosexuality is just a lifestyle choice?
    6. Who invented the “Jewish hellbomb” and the generations of
    radioactive poisoning that followed?
    7. Who has stolen all of America’s money from the next ten generations?
    8. Who coordinates the meeting of interlocking boards of directors
    that assure whatever product is manufactured will be in concert with
    the pharmaceutical industry’s ability to make a drug that will at
    least claim to counteract the disease-producing effects of the product
    being created?
    9. Who is it that teaches only members of their creed are actual human
    beings, with everybody else being labeled and treated as animals?
    10. Who advocates for hate crime laws to conceal investigations into
    their own crimes, yet put people in jail for years for merely trying
    to advocate that the real truth be told about World War II?
    11. Who is it that turns poisons into pills and marks them up 5000 percent?
    12. Who is it that puts the most inane things on television and then
    produces critics who describe it as a sign of the decline of American
    culture?
    13. Who is it that endorses this high-profile war on terror and
    recommends punishment before the alleged crime is ever committed?
    14. Which is the country where a member of this group may flee if
    charged with a crime with no extradition possible, in other words, to
    a place where they can get away with murder?
    15. Which is the country that claims it can strike anywhere in the
    world at any time to arrest or assassinate anyone it deems a threat to
    its own insane plans?
    16. Who is it that teaches our daughters to have sex as early as
    possible and then gives them a shot to prevent a disease they will
    likely never get in order to keep them from ever delivering a normal,
    healthy baby?
    17. Who is the group that everyone defends so vociferously because
    they have been led to believe these people have suffered greatly, but
    the part about how they have created their own suffering to gain the
    sympathy of others is not generally known.
    18. Who is the group that controls all facets of media production, so
    that stories opposing their point of view never get printed, and the
    ones that do are so watered down by their ubiquitous censors that the
    truth never comes close to getting through.
    19. Who is the group that murders idealistic people who clamor for
    peace, and then claims it had a right to do such a thing?
    20. Who is the group that controls and abuses everyone in the world by
    its control of money, which it expands and contracts regularly,
    earning for itself incomprehensibly large profits while the rest of
    the world suffers and dies for want of a farthing.
    Of course you know the answer. You knew it all along. But you were
    afraid to say anything, and most of you still are.
    So you won’t find the treasure by being a coward and saying what you
    think. All you’ll find that way is more slavery, and ignominious
    death.
    Just imagine what it will be like when they’re gone, when their
    murderous philosophy is not permitted to exist anymore.
    Then the jewels of life will become visible, each person responsible
    only to his own abilities, with an abiding respect to everyone else
    who is pursuing exactly the same thing, and a recognition that one day
    we all wind up in the same place, so the best thing to do now is to
    ease everyone’s passage, and never again put up with a people whose
    religious code commands them to lie about what they’re doing.
    What a day that will be, when the ugly mindlock of a hypocritical
    religious institution is forever stricken from the behavior of
    functional and fulfilled human beings, the universe will open like a
    flower to us, and we’ll hear music we never heard before, having been
    locked up tight for all those years in the sad and sullen prison of
    God.
    Or the alternative, which you seem to want to choose, your future will
    be as a gray pill in a black bottle where you will be permitted to
    speak only upon demand, and if your answer is correct to the
    questioner’s specifications, you may be allowed to continue to live.
    John Kaminski is a writer who lives on the Gulf Coast of Florida
    preaching the message that no problem in the world can be
    authentically addressed without first analyzing tangents caused by
    Jewish perfidy, which has subverted and diminished every aspect of
    human endeavor throughout history. Support for his work is wholly
    derived from people who can understand what he’s saying and know what
    it means. http://johnkaminski.info/ 250 N. McCall Rd. #2, Englewood
    FL 34223 USA

  400. Hancock1863 January 11, 2011 at 7:25 pm #

    Wow. Entirely predictable, boring, and Teabaggy.
    You responded not to my post, but to a line in the post that inspired the argument. Nicely done. It says nothing but is a nice blast of distracting squid-ink that says nothhing.
    You completely ignored the entire list saying they were individuals??? What the hell does that piece of nonsense even mean?
    Do you mean to say that a RW Murderer can only be called a RW murdered if…what, it can be proven they were at Republican HQ the morning of the shooting? That they got their orders directly from the RNC? Otherwise, “shut up, you Lib’rul!”
    The usual double-standard from you RW Authoritarians. That’s quite a high bar you’ve set for yourself and the rest of you RW Glenn Beck wannabes. But again, that’s just you following cookie-cutter sophist strategies fed to you by the ever-repetious RW Lie Machine. It’s not anything you though of yourself. You’re not much more than a trained parrot.
    You have done exactly as Comrade Beck demands. Good nancy-boy. You have stayed on message, obfuscated, bullshitted, whined, played the victim and tantrumed.
    Like Beck when he soppingly quoted Martin Luther King. Is that how you guys communicate in dog-whistle. When Beck quotes MLK you know he means the opposite of what he says, doesn’t he? (“but just tone it down a bit, would you guys…just for now”)
    Anyway, that was a good bit of RW Lying and Distraction there, Nancy. You really do need to find someplace where the IQs are lower for you to ply your wares.
    Unless this is your assignment, and as usual, you’ll be leaving us when everything dies down and the RW is fully back in command of the National Dialog by sheer force of will and blather.
    In either case, as with the last time you Nazis took over a great industrialized nation in Germany 1933, the joke’s on you almost as much as your Liberal and Jewish victims. You just don’t know it, Hans.
    And you using the old, “I’m rubber, you’re glue. Everything bounces off me and sticks to you,” is a standard RW projection tactics (like Glenn Beck pretending it’s really the Liberals who are the murderous serial propagandists who were trying to crush liberty).
    Pretty good, Nancy, but I noticed you skipped over mentioning how much you enjoyed Adkisson’s letter.
    C’mon, confess. You know you want to get if off your chest. Be a man, not a coward, Nancy.
    You loved it.
    I know I said I wouldn’t respond, but man, running circles around RW Liars and Trained parrots is FUN in a sick way.
    Now parrot me some more stuff I can read in any of 100 other websites, you original, you.

  401. Hancock1863 January 11, 2011 at 7:44 pm #

    Of course he’ll deny it. The one sure thing you can’t count on with RW Authoritarian Followers is that they will accuse you of what they themselves are doing.
    Many of them, particularly the hardcore Internet bunch of them, are dyed-in-the-wool sociopaths. That is what attracts them to this kind of work/lifestyle of endless lying, bullying, anger and hate. If this were 1924 Russia, jimjim would be working for Stalin and do you know what?
    His arguments to all of us “Russia-hating, America-loving RW verminous liberals” would look, sound and feel almost exactly the same. Only a few words and phrases need be changed to alter his blather from RW Authoritarian blather to LW Authoritarian blather because the two species of liberty-destroying monsters mostly are the same, at bottom.
    They just use different lies and justifications for the same brutality of soul.
    And all history is a big merry go round go round and round over the same ground. Only the names, players and concepts change, really. Oh, and technology level and energy availability.
    Which leads to the question: In 50 or 100 years, whenever this Beck-Limbaugh-Bush thing finally reaches it’s final destination, or final solution to the Liberal problem if you will, which would you rather have your descendants terrorized and brutalized by? LW Authoritarian Communists as in the USSR, cicra 1950 or RW Authoritarians circa Bush-Limbaughians circa 2050?
    Ha ha, trick question. You don’t get a choice. If you want your descendants to be brutalized by LW Authoritarians, you’ll have to move to N. Korea.
    Authoritarians and their followers have mostly all concentrated on the RW in 2010 America. They usually all like to migrate to one side or another. Whichever wing is left over (really the center and everyone else beside the authoritarians and their chosen party) then becomes the Liberal Vermin… or the Capitalist Vermin… or the Jewish Vermin, depending on which flavor of authoritarianism we are talking about.

  402. asia January 11, 2011 at 7:46 pm #

    ‘Jared Loughner is the kind of semi-functional moron that we normally don’t have to deal with
    Jared’s ramblings about currencies and such also exhibits the murky understanding of such affairs that’s typically shared among …they know somethings wrong with the country….’
    UH…what was wrong was whats between jareds ears and the gun laws of the USA.thos are the 2 wrong things.
    end of conversation.

  403. asia January 11, 2011 at 7:48 pm #

    Chertoff is making millions from his Rape-a-Scan machine.
    Tasers? Big business. And sound cannons, microwave skin pain causers, and many more that we don’t know about are being financed as we speak
    …………………………..tell us more.
    plus theres the privately held prisons….prisons are big business.

  404. The Mook January 11, 2011 at 7:49 pm #

    Is that dickweed really gay?
    I didn’t think birds were into violence.

  405. asia January 11, 2011 at 7:52 pm #

    the bulk of that shit was 40 years ago or more
    baaa…
    they got old and went into politics and teaching at colleges. ruined the education system.
    clinton, bill ayers [?] obama and his ‘reverend’
    and a zillion college profs like the dreaded dorn and ayres.

  406. Eleuthero January 11, 2011 at 7:54 pm #

    JimJim said:
    If you want to attribute “right wing” violence to a guy whose dog was peeing on a rug and claim that as some kind of relationship to the “right” and violence, you be my guest. But you risk looking like and idiot in doing so.
    ***************************************************
    So was Timothy McVeigh immune from anarcho-
    libertarian far right wing influences?? I
    agree with you … up to a point. It is
    likely unfair to attribute ONE nutjobs
    killing spree to a set of influences.
    However, as I pointed out in my last post,
    it always seems as though Stalin, Hitler,
    Mao, and Pol Pot, and similar murderous
    dictators start out by slamming the
    intellectual class as Loughner most
    assuredly did.
    When I listen to right wing talk radio, all
    I hear is guys like Mark Levin and Limbaugh
    and Michael Savage speaking in enraged
    invective. You don’t hear Rachel Maddow
    or Chris Mathews (whatever you may think
    of their overall thinking) screeching like
    any of these rightist wingnuts. Ultimately,
    these guys DO form a kind of critical mass
    of listeners and it works them into a hateful
    state of being.
    E.

  407. messianicdruid January 11, 2011 at 8:25 pm #

    E saith, “You don’t hear Rachel Maddow or Chris Mathews (whatever you may think of their overall thinking) screeching like any of these rightist wingnuts.”
    Perhaps you don’t hear anything annoying because you agree with them. But in their case, we should note the condescending and sniveling qualities, which tend to be irritating to some.

  408. Qbala January 11, 2011 at 8:35 pm #

    Here we go Hancock:
    RW CASE STUDY:
    Case: Tyson distributes tainted chicken wings. People all over US fall ill, start to die.
    1. (D) response: Light a fire under FDA’s ass to find out what/who and stop it; recall product; look at stiffening laws to prevent future outbreaks.
    2. (R) response: Do nothing at all. The free market system will punish Tyson as soon as a certain threshold number of humans die and/or are sickened. With a slumbering media, that could be 1 or 2 per household. Outraged citizens (not republicans) riot and burn Tyson plants (probably the wrong ones) and kill hundreds of immigrant chicken pluckers, but, of course, there is no police to control the rioting.
    3. “jimjim” response: look for cute blonde somewhere who has disappeared and have the propaganda division (msm) inundate the airwaves and print pages with that non-story. This way, Tyson (big fascist contributor) doesn’t unduly suffer from scandal. If Tyson feels like it and can do so cheaply, it may decide to fix the problem. Or not, as the case may be. Hopefully, more democrats eat chicken than fascists – who prefer steak.
    Tue and/or thwee be you, jimmy-jimmy-jimmy?

  409. turkle January 11, 2011 at 8:40 pm #

    The specifics of a killer’s politics or ideas don’t seem to matter as much as their attitude, which has more to do with a priori life situation and mental health. There was a recent episode where a mentally deranged individual took hostages at the Discovery Channel building, and his politics seemed Left Wing. Lunatics identify with all kinds of different causes.
    And then in many of these cases, e.g. Columbine and The Virginia Tech mass shootings, politics played little or no role. The motives were not political, but personal, like a modern day vendetta or honor killing.
    The important aspect seems to be the attitude someone takes towards their own ideas vis a vis everyone else on this planet. There is a certain kind of solipsism that attends someone who comes to the conclusion that other innocent people need to be gunned down as a sacrifice to their personal ideals, whatever those might be.
    And our culture certainly has something to do with this mess. A mass shooting is almost never a case of spontaneous behavior. It requires quite a lot of planning. There are models and scripts for it in much electronic media, including shooter video games, action movies, and even the news, which goes into a feeding frenzy whenever one of these incidents occurs.
    There is a certain aspect of American culture that gives people the message that it is acceptable to solve their problems with violence. This should not come as a surprise. It goes back at least as far as the glorification of the Wild West.
    And I do agree somewhat with asia, who posted links that violence is an inherent part of our behavior due to genetics. But that does not account for the rather complicated and preplanned actions that attend a mass shooting, which in no way could be programmed by genetics. This is learned behavior, e.g. cultural memes, that people pickup from the media and other cultural artifacts.
    I also look at these episodes as a sort of war paradigm enacted within civilian society. The concept that other people need to be killed because of politics or other ideals is straight out of the historical playbook of empires, religions, and nations. These shooters are like a religion or cult of one in this respect.
    Also, the obvious 500 lb gorilla in the room is that it is very easy to acquire firearms in America. In other words, means are readily available to carry out mass murder. The other components are opportunity, which is never a problem nowadays, and motive.
    The motive aspect can be programmed into young males, especially by a plethora of different media that tell them they should be angry about their situation, and that they should act on this anger by instigating extreme violence against others.
    And if you think that watching or participating in thousands of simulated murders has no effect on people, especially impressionable and (sometimes) mentally unstable young men, I simply don’t know what to say to you. How could it not? The scripts for these incidents come straight out of action movie paradigms, where a lone hero is against the world and fights back by shooting people. It really is that simple.
    Most people do NOT act out these scripts, because their positive programming from other sources overrides it, as well as fear of reprisal or punishment. They are able to distinguish between the reality, in which violence outside of personal defense seldom leads to a good outcome, and the cultural fantasy, in which seemingly all problems can be solved by violence.
    But in the absence of strong positive behavior models, coupled with poor mental health such as severe depression or schizophrenia, one could easily imagine the action hero or shoot-em-up scenario being a strong force in these people’s minds, whether they consciously recognize it or not.

  410. Eleuthero January 11, 2011 at 8:40 pm #

    Condescension and sniveling are far more
    civilized than not even letting callers
    get in ten words before calling them a
    “moron” at 110 decibels and then hanging
    up before they even get a fair shot back.
    Civilized people are often condescending
    and sniveling but it’s in the very nature
    of a civilized person NOT to SCREAM and to
    dismiss them without giving them a reasonable
    chance to reply.
    E.

  411. Eleuthero January 11, 2011 at 8:43 pm #

    A less publicized incident was at De Anza
    College, a CC in the Bay Area where the
    young man had a freaking ARSENAL in his
    bedroom. This guy’s politics included
    hatred of intellectuals and academia …
    mainly because he wasn’t very good in
    school himself.
    His name was Albert De Guzman. He died
    in jail.
    E.

  412. turkle January 11, 2011 at 8:51 pm #

    One more aspect I’d like to add to the discussion is that the way in which violence is portrayed in many types of media is quite distorted. In a typical action movie, the hero always wins. He is almost never severely wounded. He doesn’t hit innocent bystanders. His targets, treated not like human beings but automatons, fall to the ground and die instantaneously, unlike in real life, where people often linger in agony for days clinging to life before they finally die. This gives the impression that not only is violence a good solution to one’s problems but that it has no downsides and no messy, unpleasant details like in reality.
    I think of the scene in Reservoir Dogs, where one of the characters is wounded and writhing about on the floor for nearly the entire movie. And viewers and critics noted this fact specifically because it was so atypical of the way violence is portrayed in the cinema. Violence is pain and suffering, and if you decide to live by it, you will most likely end up in one of three places: the hospital, jail, or a wooden box. This is a known truism in the gang community. Hardcore gangbangers who are intimately acquainted with violence know exactly what it leads to.
    But you wouldn’t think that from watching The Bourne Identity or whatever.

  413. Eleuthero January 11, 2011 at 8:51 pm #

    I want to add to my previous post because
    I think you misunderstand my politics.
    I am NOT a fan of Rachel Maddow. Indeed,
    in many previous posts I’ve characterized
    myself as a “disenfranchised Republican”
    because I’m conservative but not in the
    sense that the current Republican party
    THINKS they’re “conservative”.
    However, I find that the vocal tone and
    civility of the rightist wingnuts on
    radio and TV is distinctly UNCIVIL and
    even CHILDISH. I never hear people like
    Maddow or Keith Olbermann even JOKING
    about “beheading” or “shooting” their
    political adversaries.
    I am disappointed that the right wing of
    American politics has devolved into the
    likes of now-jailed Tom DeLay i.e., full
    of moral high-handedness and hypocrisy.
    Full of Constitutional revisionism like
    many Tea Partiers who claim that the US
    is a Christian-based society and that we
    should put God and Jesus back into the
    schools. Our Founders escaped England
    to escape the Church of England and the
    malevolent inflence of the church on
    public officials.
    Our Founders were brilliant in that respect
    and there is no like to be found in the
    current version of the Republican Party.
    Guys like Glenn Beck are insidious because
    of their historically revisionist “sermons”.
    E.

  414. turkle January 11, 2011 at 8:57 pm #

    One detail from the recent shooting in Arizona stood out to me. When the shooter was tackled and wrestled to the ground by a crowd of people, someone pushed his face into the concrete, and he yelled, “You’re hurting me!” It was as if everything before that was a video game, where he was invincible or could respawn once he died, with no consequences. Then the reality hit him: violence actually hurts me and it can have severe consequences. Then it wasn’t just a game anymore.

  415. ctemple January 11, 2011 at 9:00 pm #

    The mainstream media right now is in one of their classic crying jags, and they haven’t had one for about a year and a half, since Michael Jackson died.
    And in one of these jags, every arm chair detective, every self appointed do gooder, every ‘criminal profiler’, will rant and rave for days, the halls will ring with the sound of psycho babble. Every crank in the country will get interviewed. They’ll blame ‘hate speech’, every thing that led up to this will be second guessed 1500 times, the shooters family will have their reputation pulverized by these pinheads. Thousands of jerks will get to publicly complain about everything they personally don’t like and blame that for the shooting.
    I live pretty close to St. Louis, and what happened in Tucson the other day is about three weeks worth of shootings in St. Louis, why isn’t the mainstream media wringing it’s hands over it? I’m not sure, maybe because it isn’t a congressman or something.

  416. Qbala January 11, 2011 at 9:01 pm #

    Home run, Hancock – excellent comment.
    To jimjim and his rightwing minions, “common ground” is a foreign concept. They don’t think any thing should be “commonly” owned, the “common good” is not worth preserving. Government is evil. It should not regulate anything: drugs, food, pollution, guns, drugs, land use. Conversely, everything should be privatized and deregulated. And with a corporate control of our media, they do get elected and their ideas have infiltrated government policy to the point of disaster. They are the symptom of a disease called “cancervatism”.
    To a rightwinger (small “r” intended), a person is his own free agent. If they were to live by their credo they would have to agree that any person, including their neighbor, can have as many guns and weapons systems as they want and they can shoot them off when they like, as long as they don’t kill your pet dog or children. They’re opposed to all zoning laws, and believe that if someone bought the lot next to your house, they could erect a convenience store, skyscraper, munitions plant or gas station there.
    One thing I’ve noticed about these rightwingers (and libertarians/faux libertarians): I’ve yet to meet one who’d turn down an unemployment check or a Social Security payment. I’ve yet to see one pick up his own trash, repave the potholes on his street, reject FEMA funds when his beach home is washed out to sea, etc. It’s amazing how quickly the rightwing strain disappears when those professing it lose their jobs or get sick without insurance.
    The belief is in greed without any thought of consequence – like that of a 6-year-old. Kind of a “I’ll keep mine and you keep yours and when you’re not looking, I just might steal yours and then it’ll be mine” mentality.
    It is a totally egocentric and narcissistic philosophy. It disallows any agency to prevent the powerful from exploiting the powerless – rationalizing that the powerless are so by divine providence and deserve their miserable fates. It disallows any collective provisioning for the common good.

  417. turkle January 11, 2011 at 9:12 pm #

    El,
    Politics is war by other means to these people, e.g. cultural war. They are not compromisers. They play to win and destroy their opponents, not to work things out, not to have a civil discussion, and not to come to some sort of mutual agreement or understanding (case in point: jimjim).
    You are operating on a totally different paradigm where civility and maturity should be maintained in any discussion or political discourse. But the wingnuts place no value on these ideals. They participate in order to get exactly their way without compromise and to feel better about themselves by pointing the finger at others. If this means turning the political scene into a game of us-versus-them or a junior high school style bullying contest, they have no problem with it, utilizing an ends-justify-the-means philosophy to get their way.
    Unfortunately, once this becomes the modus operandi, the opposition almost has no choice but to get dragged into the sewer along with them or not participate at all. From what I see, many intelligent and good-natured people in America have bowed out of the modern political scene for just these reasons. It has become a sickening arena of childish personal vendettas, name-calling, and other slander, with an attitude of winner-take-all.
    There is also a disturbing trend of ignorance or lack of knowledge as some kind of positive feature. All the intelligent people I know change their minds about things when new information comes to light. Stephen Hawking, for instance, constantly changes his ideas about blackholes, The Big Bang, etc. as his research progresses.
    But in modern politics this is looked upon as wishy-washy and weak. People pick their side and stand by it, regardless of any new information or counter-arguments that come up.
    I’m more interested in what works and what doesn’t. Sometimes more government is needed. Sometimes less government interference is beneficial. Sometimes the private sector is able to craft brilliant solutions to problems. Sometimes it falls flat on its face.
    Anyone who picks an idea and then decides to stick with it come hell or high water is, to my mind, a mindless zealot. This is the behavior of a religious nut, not a thoughtful human being with a functioning, rational brain.

  418. turkle January 11, 2011 at 9:14 pm #

    Nice post.

  419. turkle January 11, 2011 at 9:32 pm #

    ctemple,
    Yeah, I think blaming these incidents on right wing talk radio is mostly nonsense. There are figures of speech used like, “Boy, I’d like to kill that guy.” or “We should bomb San Francisco.” that are verbal hyperbole. Talk radio is also a rather abstract media. It is just people talking to each other and doesn’t provide much of a model for violent. The talking itself is kind of a therapy in a way, of working out problems or ideas using communication rather than physical violence.
    But the way I look at other more insidious media is that they provide a simulation of reality, and the mind can be easily confused by this. Action movies and video games provide explicit scripts that the deranged can follow, almost to the letter.
    This reminds me strongly of the Columbine killers. (The book “Columbine” is an excellent read BTW.)
    Two of their favorite subjects were the movie Natural Born Killers and the video game Doom.
    They repeatedly wrote “NBK” in their notes and talked about enacting this movie in real life, which is, ironically, a satire on the media’s obsession with violent killers.
    Their other favorite topic was the video game Doom, now a fairly primitive and unrealistic looking video game but one of the first popular “shooters”. One of them was so obsessed with this that he provided his own graphics models to replace the built-in ones.
    Is this just a matter of inherently violent people being attracted to violent media? Possibly this is part of it initially, but I believe there is a feedback loop in which this type of media reinforces and clarifies internal feelings of anger and provide models for how to enact this displaced rage and anxiety in the real world, e.g. with a mass shooting spree.
    This concept doesn’t hold across the board. Plenty of extremely violent people, serial killers, etc. were not influenced by media but their surroundings. This would hold for the Islamist in Afghanistan, the kid growing up in the gang culture of South Side Chicago, etc.
    But how do you explain two suburban kids in Colorado, pretty much an idyllic place with a non-violent culture, deciding to enact a miniature war at their high school?
    I find it very hard to believe that violent media had no influence in that case, especially because the killers seemed so obsessed with enacting these fantasy scenarios in real life and wrote about this explicitly. And if you read about these kids parents, both families come across as very decent people, so I seriously doubt that bad parenting was a factor.
    But a toxic and violent media culture does exist in America, which can be easily tapped for ideas and may function as at least a partial influence.

  420. cowswithguns January 11, 2011 at 9:46 pm #

    I’m not anti-gun (I realize some people hunt and need protection), but, for me, this is the bottom line regarding the Arizona shooting:
    A semi-automatic handgun combined with extended clips holding 30 rounds apiece does this: bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-[reload, repeat several times over].
    A six-shot revolver works like this: aim…bang…aim…bang…aim…bang…aim…bang…aim…bang…aim…bang…[Reload…one…two…three…four…five…(oh wait, that one slipped out of my fingers)…five…six.
    Which shooter will kill more people? Which shooter will get tackled before the body count climbs?
    Everything a law-abiding citizen wants to do with a gun: Hunt, target practice, home defense, can be done with a manual-loading gun.
    Cold-blooded murderers on the other hand love those semi-automatics.

  421. JonathanSS January 11, 2011 at 9:53 pm #

    “All the intelligent people I know change their minds about things when new information comes to light. Stephen Hawking, for instance, constantly changes his ideas about blackholes, The Big Bang, etc. as his research progresses.”
    Great comments. What I dislike about talking to people who don’t understand scientific research is that when they see scientists disagree or there is a hole in a theory, that they automatically throw out the rest of the theory because it doesn’t fit their preconceived ideas.
    I see this in ideas on climate change, where some dismiss the idea because they don’t like the messenger (e.g. Al Gore) or they point out that scientists disagree (which is the nature of science). For once, I would like a Republican Senator to not blindly dismiss global warming, but say something like, “I may not agree that climate is changing due to man, but even if there is something to it, I’m worried about the affect on the US economy.

  422. k-dog January 11, 2011 at 9:54 pm #

    The vertical farm concept has some nerd appeal but as a practical solution most of us here know better than to take it seriously. An idea while interesting, it probably is best kept in shadow. We don’t want to confuse people, do we?
    The idea has a certain mass appeal. Vertical farms received a passing mention in The 11th hour film.

  423. turkle January 11, 2011 at 10:10 pm #

    Indeed, though one could argue a semi-automatic Glock like the one used in this shooting would be better for “home defense” than a six-shooter.
    My main problem with the gun rights stance is that the 2nd Amendment was written at a very different time with different assumptions and realities. A firearm in those days meant a musket that could be fired once before it had to be manually reloaded. So a mass shooting was essentially impossible. One had to be part of a fairly big group of people (an old school “firing line”) to put out any kind of effective fire power. So there was kind of a group dynamic assumed there (the “militia” phrase that is explicitly mentioned).
    Furthermore, at the time the Bill of Rights was written, America had no standing army, so the intent of this amendment was for the populace to be armed in order to function as a militia when needed, e.g. a people’s army, what Washington used to put down the Whiskey Rebellion.
    Now fast forward to today. Firearms bear little relation to the “arms” of the 1700’s. One person can have the firepower of essentially a whole battalion of musketeers. You’re talking orders of magnitude more firepower and accuracy than a musket. They are essentially entirely different weapons and barely in the same category.
    Society is also quite different today than at that time, when 90% or more of the population lived on farms. Mobility is far greater. Population density is much higher.
    I gotta think that it wasn’t the founders intent to inadvertently arm 14 year-old gangbangers with assault rifles due to lax gun laws.
    There is also the idea, much written about by the righties, that arms are essential for protecting against tyranny by the government. Well, I’m sorry, but if you think you’re going to fight and win against the modern day American Leviathan police state with your little automatic pistol, you have been watching too many action movies. People who do that end up dead.
    So maybe it made sense back in the day, when people had to depend on themselves for protection against Indians, to hunt for food, to participate in a militia, and police themselves (when there were no police), or possibly when a well organized group actually stood a chance at fighting toe-to-toe against a government.
    But in our society, easy access to powerful firearms does not work so well.
    And read strictly, wouldn’t the generic “arms” clause mean that a private citizen should be able to own any type of weaponry, including and up to fighter jets, tanks, and bazookas? The fact that so many restrictions and caveats are placed on this statement, including restrictions on owning automatic weapons, suggests to me that it is a fundamentally flawed idea which needs to be revisited.
    But of course one can’t question this sacrosanct article in The Constitution without the righties getting, uh, up in arms. Though many gun rights advocates seem to only be concerned about this one clause above all others.

  424. messianicdruid January 11, 2011 at 10:18 pm #

    My apologies. I also am not to be confused with those who may use the same words, some in even the same way.
    I would warn against being lead into hatred of conservatives by reincarnated Archie Bunkers.
    I take notice that all are being distracted by current events, as if by design.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq3e3wT0PGU&feature=player_embedded

  425. cowswithguns January 11, 2011 at 10:36 pm #

    Turkle said: “And read strictly, wouldn’t the generic “arms” clause mean that a private citizen should be able to own any type of weaponry, including and up to fighter jets, tanks, and bazookas?”
    I can see this question coming before the Supreme Court one day, in a case titled People of Third World Nation Full of Brown People vs. Blackwater (aka xe); or perhaps Protesting Hippies Who Like to Gather Outside of Lloyd Blankfein’s House Gate vs. Skull-Crushing Private Police Force.

  426. progressorconserve January 11, 2011 at 10:46 pm #

    JHK, as always, I appreciate your written words for the week. And, as always, I appreciate this blog space and discussion thread.
    But, for myself, I prefer it when your topic for the week is a little more *distant* in time. And I know that TS might HTF tomorrow, but that concept still has a certain distant remoteness that makes it easier to contemplate.
    While this murder of innocent citizens, and the attempted murder of a sitting US congressman – has no distance to it at all!
    And we are a Country that understands the importance of a single politically inspired murder or attempted murder. We continue to argue about the Event of 1963 – as though it happened this past weekend. And we should acknowledge – though many of us do not – that history would look different – had John Hinkley killed Ronald Reagan in 1981, OR HAD HE MISSED him altogether.
    Anyway, nice post this week, and it’s generated lots of comment traffic already. But let me go on record as saying that I do not like the topic.
    This country of ours seems about as tightly wound as I have seen it since the ’60’s. And it only takes one act – or one bullet – to change History.
    Only the truly evil prefer bullets to ballots.
    So, I hope it is a long time before you are able to write about something so definite and so *immediate* again, Mr. JHK.

  427. progressorconserve January 11, 2011 at 11:00 pm #

    On gun control –
    This is a left leaning website. Perhaps because reality also leans left – I have a leftward bias myself.
    But I’m pragmatic.
    And I’m a well armed liberal. (TM Ozone)
    And I really hate to see the gun control rhetoric start up on the left because of the events of this weekend.
    And please, understand that I KNOW the gun control arguments. And I understand the arguments against gun control. Both sides make valid points.
    But here’s the important thing; gun control is a fear inspiring *WEDGE ISSUE.* In 2110, and moving forward in time – gun control is an issue ONLY advocated by the left. Bringing up gun control at a time like this looks like a political ploy.
    And trying to force more gun control – now, or going forward in time – damages the progressive/liberal/left, while only serving to energize *some* of the opposition.

  428. Vlad Krandz January 11, 2011 at 11:02 pm #

    Good observation. The Founders meant for the populace to be armed and for the Goverment to be wary of offending them. They were utterly opposed to the idea of a standing army or of getting involved in foreign wars. The armed rabble Turk hates so much WERE to be the armed militia which the Founders supported.
    What’s the moral? We have deviated far from the original plan. We either go back to it or we deviate even more as Turkle and his kin desire. The current situation is not viable so treading water is no an option – and that’s a tragedy to our posters addicted to treading. The proponents of normalcy are the most deluded of all.

  429. Hancock1863 January 11, 2011 at 11:05 pm #

    I take notice that all are being distracted by current events, as if by design.
    It sure does look like that, doesn’t it? You know who it is? The Alien Space Lizards. They Live. From their mighty Mother Ship hiding behind one of the moons of Saturn (easy to evade the puny technologies of their Primate Livestock in their pen) they use their technologies undreamed of to control the reality in ways we cannot imagine.
    For instance, they have a little gizmo that freezes time around them for everyone but them. How do we stop that? How do we expose THAT?
    That’s why they never get caught. It’s those damned little wrist communicators/teleporters they wear!
    I mean, the death of the poor little girl who was born on 9-11? You just known one of Them was there in human disguise and used his time-stop device to make sure she was fatally in the path of the fusillade.
    Why? To torment and horrify their Primate Livestock, to laugh at us and tease us like the dumb cattle They think we are. That death was a message to all of us humans from our Alien Space Lizard Overlords.
    ATTENTION PRIMATE CATTLE: YOU…HAVE…NO…FUTURE! NO…HOPE! SUBMIT! OBEY! RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.
    It’s not that the RW Lie Machine can control reality and perception, it’s that the Alien Space Lizard Overlords actually CAN freeze time and control reality if They need to.
    Is Glenn Beck an Alien Space Lizard or just one of their Human Elite Henchpersons?
    My money is on Human Henchperson. But I am willing to wager that if we waterboarded him as an Alien Combatant, he would admit that he has been to the Mother Ship, hobnobbed with his Lizard Masters and seen them without their suits on.
    He even shared extra dry Space Martinis with them, I’ll bet.
    It’s the only rational answer. ;P
    By the way, just so you know. The being you believe to be God is actually Satan wearing a God Mask. He killed God, oh, millions of years ago and now he runs the show. Everyone is fooled… the archangels, the cherubim, middle management…EVERYONE.
    Except Dick Cheney, who cut his own deal, the lucky bastard.
    It’s a beautiful scam, eh? Explains a lot, doesn’t it?

  430. cowswithguns January 11, 2011 at 11:07 pm #

    There is no getting about from the gun-control talk after something like this, though, I agree, it could be a political time-bomb.

  431. asoka January 11, 2011 at 11:11 pm #

    “…wouldn’t the generic “arms” clause mean that a private citizen should be able to own any type of weaponry, including and up to fighter jets, tanks, and bazookas?”
    ============
    [sarcasm on]
    Absolutely.
    If you are going to defend your home against the government, you need more than a shotgun or a Glock 9mm. You need more than what can be purchased at WalMart, because the government has some serious weapons you need to defend against.
    At a minimum your home should have MANPADS because the government does have warplanes. You also need some good quality anti-tank weapons because the government has tanks.
    If you don’t use your second amendment rights, you may lose them.
    [sarcasm off]

  432. messianicdruid January 11, 2011 at 11:11 pm #

    “…a militia when needed, e.g. a people’s army, what Washington used to put down the Whiskey Rebellion.”
    Really?
    “The early Republic never did get around to declaring the Jubilee, though the great experi-ment in personal liberty begun in the wake of the Revolution was in general a blessing to mankind, in comparison with the fearsome oligarchies still holding power in Europe. But once the war had been won and the yeomanry were no longer the essential motive engine for securing indepen-dence from Britain, in many regions power was consolidated in the hands of reactionary mercan-tile interests.
    The lawyers and bankers had only gone underground during the Revolution and like all parasites were quick to re-emerge when peace was at hand, to declare their “right” to rule the manual laborers who had done the frontline fighting.
    As the watch-fob crooks came out of the wood-work, the veterans of ’76 were there to meet them, first with petitions for redress of grievance and later with rifles.
    Conservative historians declare that the Shays rebels were forerunners of Bolshevism, “ingrates” who sought to “level” frontier society into some disgusting precursor of Marxism.
    Such an interpretation can only be put forth by those who know little or nothing [and care less]of the Bible-based aspirations of the American yeomanry.
    There was nothing “Bolshevik” about Shays’ Rebellion. The criminal class was not among the farmers, who Jefferson had nominated as the true “Chosen people” if ever there was one, but among the usual suspects lurking at the top of the Pharaonic pyramid.
    I had to smile when Pat Buchanan visited Los Angeles some years ago, in the wake of the devastating Mexican/African riots there, and pro-claimed, in the coded weasel words of Republican conservatism, a statement to the effect that whites are better citizens than the Mexicans and Africans, because whites don’t riot. In truth, the white race is the most insurrectionist nation the world has ever seen, or was, until feminism and TV flea’d the lion’s rump and pared his claws.”
    http://www.loompanics.com/Articles/Shays.htm

  433. Hancock1863 January 11, 2011 at 11:31 pm #

    You said:

    And I really hate to see the gun control rhetoric start up on the left because of the events of this weekend.
    And please, understand that I KNOW the gun control arguments. And I understand the arguments against gun control. Both sides make valid points.
    But here’s the important thing; gun control is a fear inspiring *WEDGE ISSUE.* In 2110, and moving forward in time – gun control is an issue ONLY advocated by the left. Bringing up gun control at a time like this looks like a political ploy.

    I say two things to that. First, amen, I am in 100% agreement and second, this then is exactly what the Democratic Leadership will do, since it’s clear their role is to play to lose almost 100% of the time.
    I’ve said this to you before, my friend progressorconserve, but you really need to purchase or get from the library and read “Defying Hitler” by Sebastian Haffner, an eyewitness.
    If you want to understand what is going on in this country, you need to read from an eyewitness account of what happened last time something like this happened to a great power and an industrial juggernaut. Trust me, you won’t believe how little at bottom RW Authoritarianism has changed in 80 years.
    Given the most recent tragedy, if you do read the book, pay special attention to the discussion between Left and Right on the Murders at Copenick.
    You will also find that Glenn Beck/jimjim/notmommy vibe dominant there also from the Right. Worse even. Teabagger stupid arrogance and ignorant smugness has got nothing on Nazi stupid arrogance and ignorant smugness. Though they do sound a lot alike. They do “rhyme”, as it were.
    It will chill your soul with horror, you liberal leftist fascist Nazi communist, and isn’t that one of the reasons why we seek good books and good entertainment?
    http://www.amazon.com/Defying-Hitler-Memoir-Sebastian-Haffner/dp/0312421133/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1294805942&sr=1-1
    Be warned, though. Purchasing or otherwise putting yourself on record as being interested in that book, and may cause the NSA, TIA (Total Information Awareness) or even the Alien Space Lizard Overlords to take a greater interest in you in terms of data mining and flagging you and your family for greater scrutiny.

  434. turkle January 11, 2011 at 11:40 pm #

    Vlad, you are overly fixated on some kind of imaginary moral framework that exists solely in your own head, about how things should have gone and how they should go.
    America is a completely different society now. What worked for an agrarian, fairly uniform country with shared moral values does not work now but just causes chaos and anarchy. There were 100,000 gun deaths or injuries last year in the US. Does a personal “right to bear arms” really justify this kind of carnage?
    There were legitimate reasons for the populace to be armed during the 1700’s that have mostly disappeared now. There were no police back then pretty much anywhere. So you had to protect yourself. There was no standing army, hence the population needed to be armed for when it was necessary to raise a militia (It is not a coincidence that the amendment specifically mentions militias.). There were Indian raids on remote settlements. None of this is true now.
    And so many other things have changed since then. We don’t have slavery anymore or the 2/3 voting law or Jim Crow. We don’t allow disputes to be settled through dueling, which was rampant at that time. We don’t believe (at least most of us) that institutional discrimination should be practiced against others because of their race, culture, or religion. Hell, back then, there was no modern medicine to speak of, no electricity, and no plumbing.
    That’s how history works. Things do not go according to someone’s perfect master plan. And values do not stay constant after hundreds of years. They change organically through a series of complex collective actions, and there is nothing wrong with this. What works and what doesn’t also changes as society does.
    We make automobile drivers take X amount of hours of training before they get behind the wheel of a car. Training for drivers is pretty extensive. They must pass a test and get a license and go through a probationary period. I don’t see why requiring the same of gun owners would be such a heavy burden on them. It makes a lot of sense. Unlike cars, which are practically a necessity to function in society, guns are optional, and, in a modern society, it makes a lot of sense that you should have to justify why you need to carry around an implement that is solely designed for the murder of other human beings (and is very effective at it), or at least go through some kind of intense scrutiny and/or training like police officers do.
    And frankly, I trust government agencies to regulate their use of force (at least domestically…foreign wars are another matter that we could discuss and might find more agreement on) more than certain elements of society, especially young males in urban areas. If you want to get racist about it, fine. But this element exists, whether you like it or not.
    Who do you fear when you walk down the street in an American city at night? Do you really think that the evil gubment is out to get you and is going to kidnap or kill you when you’re walking down the street? Do you really think that you’re likely to be illegitimately victimized by the government? Really?
    I fear the saggy pants gangster with a Glock in his underpants far more than I do any element of the domestic government. Because gangsters with guns represent anarchy. They don’t follow the rules, any rules. They don’t give a shit about you or anyone else other than their fellow gangsters and will put a cap in your ass in a heartbeat, for simply bumping into them or looking at them wrong or if you have a nice leather jacket or pair of sneakers they want.
    Personally, I value security over every persons right to easily purchase and carry around military-grade weapons on their person. Because there are too many questionable people out there who do not have the appropriate training, mindset, or values to be trusted with a deadly weapon solely designed to kill other people.
    But if you want anarchy and terror going forward, well, we’re well on the way with our for-profit gun industry and its disgusting political lobby, which peddles weapons to the entire world for profit. It is an industry of death and is simply about selling expensive totems of manhood to people. It has very little to do with values like freedom.
    Pure freedom is simply anarchy and needs to be tempered by laws. Unfortunately, the massive amount of gun violence in America, more than any other wealthy nation, shows that many in the populace are not responsible enough to handle the freedom of owning firearms.

  435. progressorconserve January 11, 2011 at 11:44 pm #

    turkle, eleuthero, and many others –
    This was well stated:
    ============
    “From what I see, many intelligent and good-natured people in America have bowed out of the modern political scene for just these reasons. It has become a sickening arena of childish personal vendettas, name-calling, and other slander, with an attitude of winner-take-all.”
    ============
    Well stated, and sadly, quite true.
    All one has to do is look at this comment thread for this week. We have one poster, jimjim, who is dominating some of the discussion. Turkle, along with others, has done in excellent job of DEMOLISHING TzaLingJim’s arguments, this week and in the past.
    And you can always tell when JimLing knows he has lost – because that is when he really starts with the name calling. “fucktard” “moron”
    Weak, correct? But bullies are always weak – and fearful – and loud.
    Go over to a FOX news comment thread – or Hannity, or Limbaugh – and you will find TzaLing’s and their ilk in superabundance. On CFN, though, JimLing is a rarity. And he provides an important service by showing us some of the groupthinking errors of the sycophantic RW mind.
    Just remember that when a LingTzaJim resorts to vitriol, illogic, and name calling – it’s because he knows he’s WRONG.
    I shall now wait for proof from somewhere – in the form of name calling, illogic, and invective!
    I doubt I will have to wait very long.

  436. turkle January 12, 2011 at 12:00 am #

    Poppycock. Domestic gun control is a major issue, not at all a red herring. And the US federal government is not out to get your weapons, far from it. The Supreme Court has recently struck down several gun laws in various states as unconstitutional. Guns are allowed in national parks now. The assault weapon ban was not renewed in 2004. If anything, the laws are becoming much looser over time. You can go buy your ammunition at the Wal-mart. In Arizona, you do not need a concealed weapons permit to carry a gun. Have you even been paying attention?
    And I’ll tell you what to do if the US goes Nazi. You leave like a sane person and seek asylum someplace else. You don’t stick around and play action hero trying to fight the system. That’s how you end up dead or rotting away in some god forsaken gulag.
    You’re not going to fight the US government, with its arsenal of fighter jets, tanks, and who-knows-what-else, along with its 13 intelligence agencies and the largest, most powerful military in the world, not to mention all the proto-military organizations that constitute local law enforcement. Sorry. Again, you’ve been watching too many hero-against-the-world action movies. You are not going to maintain your freedom against a tyrannical government by skillful use of a sidearm. Sorry, Rambo.
    Here’s a little history lesson for you. People did try to fight the Nazis with force: France, Russia, etc. They fielded modern armies against them. And they got steamrolled by tanks and fighter jets. The Poles tried to rebel and fight the Nazis in Warsaw, so what did the Nazis do? They leveled the entire city with explosives. What makes you think it would have been any different had a few people been armed against them? It would have made no difference what-so-ever.
    And the German people? They went along with it. They were well armed. They were all in the military. Most Germans loved the Nazis (at least at first).
    It was only when the combined arms of the entire industrial free world were brought to bear that the Nazis were put down. Your inane idea that personal freedom can be maintained against a modern, repressive government using your little semi-automatic pistol is laughable, at best. The way to reform and making a society and government that you do not fear is through political change. That’s what democracy is all about, NOT depending on violent force when you want to get your way.
    Again, this is all fits into the glorification of violence that I talked about previously. You think you’re going to fend off the government using an AR-15. You’re going to defend freedom by yourself against the evil hordes using a weapon like some kind of Rambo.
    Well, I’m sorry, but, no, you’re not. It’s pure bullshit that you’ve picked up from Hollywood and the NRA.
    And there is a name for people that try to fight the governments using firearms, nowadays. We generally call them terrorists or gangsters. Good luck with that lifestyle choice, for the fifteen minutes you manage to stay out of prison or the grave.

  437. Vlad Krandz January 12, 2011 at 12:08 am #

    The populace was armed – as was and is the right of Free Men. This is one of the great achievments of Western European Man. The muskets protected them against marauding Indians, robbers, and also for hunting. Such yeoman were the backbone of the early Republic and will be the backbone of any future Republic. The current situation, both politically and structurally, is an unteneable abberation verging on abomination.
    Some of the Swiss go to vote carrying their automatic rifles – as a show of civil force and an expression of their rights. Swiss men are all members of the army. The citizen soldier. No standing army need apply. Such atrocities are instruments of oppression domesticaly and abroad. Thus modern Switzerland accords with the vision of the Founding Fathers far more than the modern United States. Thus your idea than the old ways are unteneable is refuted. You just don’t like these ways – who cares? You’re not going to be part of it.
    I don’t claim btw that Mexicans, Africans, or Afro-Americans are capable of any of this – in fact, I know that they are not. This is just for us – for ourselves, ourselves alone.

  438. progressorconserve January 12, 2011 at 12:14 am #

    Ok, Hancock – now you’ve got me all paranoid, so I will not purchase “Defying Hitler” or check it out at the local library. If they have a copy on the shelves, though – maybe I can sneak some peaks at it while *pretending* to look a a slightly larger book on motorcycle maintenance or something.
    But, your response regarding not discussing gun control:
    =========
    “I say two things to that. First, amen, I am in 100% agreement and second, this then is exactly what the Democratic Leadership will do, since it’s clear their role is to play to lose almost 100% of the time.
    =========
    So, tell me, does Democratic leadership DELIBERATELY TRY to lose – to further RW/Republican goals?
    Or – does Democratic leadership lose because karma and/or the THRUST of History makes their loss inevitable?
    This second idea makes more sense, but spell it out, man. What are you trying to say?
    And where does the hyperbole of your Space Lizard’s conspiracy end – and the Palin/Beck conspiracy to enslave America start?

  439. progressorconserve January 12, 2011 at 12:36 am #

    Turkle, a couple of points –
    ========
    You ask:
    “Who do you fear when you walk down the street in an American city at night?”
    ========
    Turkle, this question cuts to the core of the practical reasons gun control will never fly in the US in our lifetimes.
    If I feel safe enough to walk down the street of an American city at night it’s because I am suitably armed OR BECAUSE OTHERS MAY BE.
    I addressed this months ago, regarding guns in rural areas – as where I live. My hypothetical pacifist neighbor is much safer – and lives in peace – because I and most of my neighbors are armed to the teeth. We simply DO NOT HAVE theft or breakins at OCCUPIED residences in this area.
    You need to come with me to some gun shows in Georgia. You will not find a more POLITE group of people anywhere – because many of the patrons and/or sellers are heavily armed.
    And because no one can know who is armed and who is not – so everyone is polite to everyone at a good gun show.
    =========
    I agree that American gun owners could not stand up to the government in the event of revolt. That’s a truly stupid idea!
    But it is a politically brilliant idea that energizes a substantial group of Conservative Primary and general election voters.
    ============
    Honestly – gun rights and border security/curtailing immigration energizes me, also – to the point that these begin to trump other issues when I vote.
    And I’m something of a card-carrying liberal; at least for where I live.
    Trust me, Turk, the liberal/progressive left can only lose on pushing more gun controls on the US.

  440. Vlad Krandz January 12, 2011 at 12:41 am #

    I hate to agree with the Left – but Truth trumps politics. The Police have been bad for a long time – now they are going crazy. It’s worse than just the TSA shit. Did you hear about the guy who got tased because he refused to go to the hospital? He seems to have had a minor heart attack and his wife called the police. He said he didn’t have insurance so he refused to medical attention. So they tased him – a man who had just had a heart attack! One is reminded of Waco – they gased the children to death in order to “save” them.
    A few weeks ago in Spokane, a homeless wood carver was shot to death. It was caught on video. The man was crossing the street with his head down carving away. Odd, but not dangerous per se. The officer told him to drop the knife. When he didn’t, the officer shot him to death. The man was Native American – not that it mattered to the officer. But it sure mattered to the Tribe and any Leftists around. I’m not sure a homeless White would have gotten as much sympathy. Thankfully the miscreant officer has been fired. Hopefully this is just the begining of his suffering.
    These are the people Turk and Co think should have ALL the guns. And what of Wage? Is she against such State power per se or does she just want the State Power on her side? The usual point of view of the Left.

  441. turkle January 12, 2011 at 1:19 am #

    Vlad,
    What makes you think I’m against possession of firearms by members of a national army? I said no such thing. This is exactly the type of structure that is implied in the Bill of Rights, i.e. the “well-regulated militia.”
    It isn’t like, “Welcome to Switzerland. Here’s your assault rifle.” You must undergo mandatory weapons training and serve as a reservist in the militia for a multi-year span (ten years?). Regular citizens not serving in the militia CANNOT possess these automatic weapons.
    And what does the Bill of Rights talk about? Oh, yeah, the well-regulated militia. I guess we forgot about that part.
    If America had this kind of structure in place, then sure, we could let people in the militia keep their assault rifles in the closet. But this right is earned by a Swiss citizen. And that is exactly my point. Entrusting people with possession of deadly, military-grade weapons is a serious matter, for which you have to serve in the army in Switzerland.
    And I’ve been to Switzerland. Are there gun shops on every corner? Can you buy ammo at the Shop-n-Save? Do you fear for your life when walking alone at night in a Swiss city?
    Hmmm, nope.
    And Switzerland is so different from the modern United States as to be almost like another planet. The criminal element is tiny. There is practically no poverty, and hence very little crime or violence, because the government is what you would dub SOCIALIST (Oh nos, the S word!) and takes care of its people.
    Somehow you think it is like the early United States, but it isn’t, not even remotely.
    Go ahead and read this.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland
    I assure you, Vlad, knowing the Swiss propensity for bureaucratic order, that members of its citizen militia must account for the government bullets in their possession. Ammo purchases are registered.
    One also has to have a carrying permit in order to possess a weapon in public, if not serving as a militiaman, and a buyer’s license to purchase, that allows 3 firearms only.
    This is not the gun show, mail order free-for-all that we have in America. Far from it. Switzerland is also under obligation to a strict European treaty that governs firearms purchases.
    Anyways, so much for your theory.
    RE: your racist viewpoint
    I’m sorry Vlad, but the white power version of America died awhile back. Only crypto-Nazi losers spout on and on about the coming race war. You can either get with the program or be forever left out in the cold babbling to yourself about the “inferior races” while the world passes you by.
    Maybe black people do have lower IQs. But it doesn’t matter. They are here along with other races you don’t like, and you have to live with them. They are just as much a part of modern America as your dumb racist ass.
    Your little Nazi fantasy about driving them out with violence is just that, a fantasy. I am 99.99% sure you will never lift a hand in violence for your internet race war, basically because you’re all talk. Most people like you are. They talk big and do nothing, because ultimately, you’re a coward. You don’t have the courage of your convictions.
    And if you do decide to act out your race war fantasies, well then, see you in the penitentiary (or the mortuary).
    Finally, I absolutely resent being categorized again and again as a “liberal” and a “socialist,” as if these are dirty words and other characterizations, as if I belong to some specific type that is supposedly destroying America.
    You don’t know me. In almost all cases, I don’t espouse the government owning the meanings of production (the definition of socialism, which you appear not to know), and, hence, I am not a socialist.
    And if you think the government providing social services and a safety net to its citizens is some kind of massive evil, then, by all means, go ahead and move to sunny Somalia, with its lack of government control or interference in the lives of its happy, productive citizens.
    And, let’s see, what’s your definition of a liberal or a socialist again?
    Oh, yeah, it is anyone who disagrees with Vlad the Impaler’s New Barbarianism.
    I bet you’re a decent guy in real life, a law-abiding citizen, and a person with strong moral values. But geez man, on the internet you come across as a snobby racist tool. I’d think about doing something about this. I don’t want to see you on the national news pulling a Jared, m’k?
    Anyways, see ya later and good luck.

  442. progressorconserve January 12, 2011 at 1:30 am #

    I don’t know, Vlad –
    A couple of my best friends are cops – guys in their 30’s and 40’s – I’d trust them with my life in a second. We are one each other’s “short list” of people to hook up with in case TS impinges upon TF.
    But we know there are some bad apples in law enforcement – it tends to be the younger guys, too. Some exhibit the classic “steroid rage,” some are power tripping.
    And I’m concerned that some these days are just young, over-armed and over-trained – and bored.
    We had a distant friend’s relative who failed to pull into a left lane when passing a stopped emergency vehicle. (That’s a fairly new state law, here.) Well, the cop he failed to move left for initiated a pursuit. The driver was mildly autistic. Long story short – the police did a felony style traffic stop on the guy – he failed to comply in some manner (I don’t know the details) – but he was shot DEAD during the traffic stop. And his original *crime* was failure to move left for a stopped emergency vehicle.
    Don’t get me wrong – I want every soul in public safety to go home safe at the end of every shift – but I know sometimes guys go way too far with application of force – or simply break laws outright. And I’m sorry we have to worry about things like that in the US – it’s sure not mentioned in the Constitution.
    ==============
    This rant got off track, sorry…
    You ask:
    “…. Is she against such State power per se or does she just want the State Power on her side? The usual point of view of the Left….”
    Man, NOTHING like this should be a left/right issue – especially application of State power.
    I know some on the right who would like to use State power to control sexual behavior, reproduction, and other intensely personal things – that doesn’t make it right, either.

  443. Buck Stud January 12, 2011 at 1:36 am #

    ” If I feel safe enough to walk down the street of an American city at night it’s because I am suitably armed OR BECAUSE OTHERS MAY BE.”
    Why would anyone feel safe with other people armed and presumably ready to shoot–are we now a nation of Little Annie Oakley’s where bullets don’t ricochet?

  444. turkle January 12, 2011 at 1:38 am #

    Well, prog, I appreciate the polite discourse. I guess we see these things differently.
    A couple points…
    There already IS gun control of various kinds. You can’t buy fully automatic weapons. You have to undergo a mandatory background check to purchase a gun at a store. In most (sane) states, one cannot carry a concealed firearm on one’s person without a permit, which is often difficult to get. etc.
    So what we’re talking about is whether additional controls would be politically feasible. And you’re right. It doesn’t seem like it at this time. But is that really because of what most Americans feel about firearms? Not really. The NRA is one of the most powerful lobbies around and what they say goes these days.
    Then you say that carrying a gun makes you feel safe on the city streets. Well, it really shouldn’t. What are you going to do if someone sticks a gun in your face and says gimme your wallet? Pull a quick Draw McGraw…really? What are you going to do about their partner standing off to the side, who is also pointing a gun at you? What are you going to do if a car drives by and opens fire on you? I’m sorry but life is not a Dirty Harry movie. Armed criminals generally work in groups (you know, gangs) and I think you’ll be sorely disappointed with your ability to get them before they get you.
    Houses aren’t robbed where you’re at probably because people are affluent enough to not need to rob houses there. Furthermore, America has a gigantic prison population. The law and order program over the last couple decades has put over a million people behind bars. So the simple fact of the matter is that law enforcement has removed a large criminal element from society and segregated them from you. That’s what makes you safe in your home, not having a shotgun in the closet.
    And I assure you, if a group of people really want to rob your home, e.g. a gang-style armed robbery/break-in, you should pray that you aren’t there when it happens. You’ll be eating dinner in the kitchen, and four armed men burst into your house. And…what, you’re going to reach for your sidearm sitting next to your corn flakes, like Billy the Kid? Again, best of luck with the Action Hero scenario.
    Again, I sense this kind of fantastic and inflated sense of personal heroism associated with guns that doesn’t really accord with reality. A gun in your house is more likely to be used against a family member than an armed intruder. Think about that for a minute.
    And if you do live someplace where armed break-ins occur regularly (I guess that’s not you), for christ’s sake pickup and move!

  445. turkle January 12, 2011 at 1:58 am #

    Vlad,
    Tasers are definitely overused, and some police are too quick to resort to violence. No argument with you there. The attitude of some American cops can be troubling. That’s something to work on and redress. American police often seem over trained in the violence department and under-trained in psychology and personal skills, which is really the most important aspect of day-to-day police work.
    Yet you seem to think (or at least suggest) that carrying a firearm is somehow going to prevent police brutality or wrongful use of force?
    Bzzzzt, wrong.
    It is the exact opposite. You pull a gun out in public in front of a police officer, for whatever reason, and you are quite likely to get shot yourself and/or land yourself in prison.
    And, yes, by and large, I trust most police officers far more than I do Average Joe. They are well-trained and most know that firing shots is a serious matter (the paperwork alone…). Most police officers never fire their guns throughout their entire careers (look it up).
    The characterization you seem to make that most cops are bloodthirsty and trigger-happy and quick to use violence doesn’t jibe with my experience or the statistics. The cases you site are aberrations rather than the rule. For every case like this, there were thousands of encounters where police diffused situations by non-violent means, etc. America is a huge place, 300 million people. Of course, some bad shit is going to go down.
    Not to say its right to quickly resort to shooting someone who doesn’t obey a “lawful order.” But I’m sure there was hell to pay for the officers in both cases. Like you said, the one was fired. Will he ever get a job as a police again? I seriously doubt it.
    You want some truly corrupt/bad police? Try Mexico…or Russia (yikes). Truly scary. Driving while white in urban Mexico is not recommended unless you want to end up in a smelly jail cell.

  446. asoka January 12, 2011 at 2:05 am #

    “law enforcement has removed a large criminal element from society and segregated them from you. That’s what makes you safe in your home”
    =========
    Actually they are taking people who “crime” might have been to possess an ounce of organic matter, and law enforcement is putting those people into schools for crime. What prisoners can learn in those schools might make us less safe in our homes.

  447. progressorconserve January 12, 2011 at 2:15 am #

    Bullets that don’t ricochet? Come on Buck – the value of weapons for the law-abiding is deterrence. How many millions of crimes never occur every year because of the *possibility* that the victim may be armed?
    You, Buck, and Turkle and I just simply disagree on this issue. I won’t make you buy a weapon – and y’all don’t try to take mine away – and our little problems are solved.
    And both of you might be surprised if I told you that the “well regulated” side of the second amendment has my support. I’ve repeatedly met the requirements for legal concealed carry.
    I’ve had some weapons training – but I’d like to have more – especially if I could get the govt. to buy my bullets.
    Just remember that the reason the NRA is SO powerful is that they have SO many members. And the NRA takes the position (I tend to disagree) that mandatory registration is the first step toward government confiscation of weapons.
    The only reason I brought all this up in the first place is to point out that the left loses (again and as usual??) when gun control comes out as an issue in national politics.
    And most of the time, I hate to see the left lose.

  448. Patrizia January 12, 2011 at 2:16 am #

    “What a day that will be, when the ugly mindlock of a hypocritical
    religious institution is forever stricken from the behavior of
    functional and fulfilled human beings, the universe will open like a
    flower to us”
    As sad as it can be these words were said many times in history, then a revolution happened and people felt reborn in a new, fresh, uncorrupted word.
    But that same word slowly got the same it was before.
    A group of few took control of it and began slowly at first, then faster and faster till they managed to destroy everything.
    Then another revolution, then again the same pattern.
    Man for his nature, is not a moral individual.
    Morality was invented to make possible survival without wars.
    This survival instinct is so exasperated in some individuals that blinds them.
    They cannot see what is good and what is bad.
    I sometimes arrive to the point to think that a lot of what happens is due to an unbalance of hormones.
    The same that drive men and women to sex in order to guarantee the survival of the species, sometimes, when their quantities is too high, can push men to rape and abuse.
    Not always the brain can tell you what to do or not to do.
    It is like when you are so hungry and you perfectly know that stealing is not good, but you need to steal in order to satisfy your hunger.
    There are people who do not see limits, to whom having more is not enough, they have to have more and more.
    In a few words, they are not “normal” people or “intelligent” people.
    Intelligent people are the ones who understand what they need and enjoy what they have, or what they are.
    Those are greedy, inhuman people, who should be taught again what the real values are, what the goal to happiness is.
    If you want a just and good world you should learn from History what the danger is.
    If you want to build a better world, you should care that nobody destroys it.

  449. Vlad Krandz January 12, 2011 at 2:20 am #

    And don’t they have more than enough reason for their rage? Might they be expressing (and perhaps consciously or unconsciously channeling or siphoning off) the rage of the American People? I don’t trust them either but I have no problem with their rage.
    Why does the offial Liberal/Left have much less rage? Because they have much more power. I am new to cable – I love Rachael Maddow’s energy and hate her politics. A few weeks ago she told us to watch the immigration special coming on later. Dutifilly I did. After a heart felt interview of Anti-immigrant Whites in their small town, the show returned to Mexicans who were actually in the studio. They were actually Smirking. There was to be no real discussion – the conclusion was a foregone conclusion. But the Left loves fake or canned dialogue – Clinton spent many millions on town meetings in which Blacks aired their grievances (they’re good at that) and Whites listened with their heads bowed. Such dialogue is always welcome on all issues – as long as it’s fake; as long as Mexicans can keep pouring over the border while it’s going on.
    Well all I have to say is that the Party is over. We’re done with the dog and pony show. We don’t believe in the good will of the Goverment, the Corporations, or the Minorities. If they’re going to talk to us from here on in, they going to have to be willing to listen and make concessions. Personally, I don’t believe they’re going to be willing. And when Whites demand equal rights, the whole thing is going to blow. Why? Because it’s a zero sum game now. All special privledges for the Blacks and Browns come at our expense. When we say no, the game is up. They know this and will never allow it. Who? All three know it: the Goverment, the Corporations, and the Minorities. So it blows. Hopefully, the Country contracts into chaos before it all comes to the fore. Saved by the Peak as it were.

  450. Vlad Krandz January 12, 2011 at 2:33 am #

    I’m in rare total agreement with you. I fell a helluva lot safer in Idaho than in Massachusetts. If the punks get out of line around here they’ll get their heads blown off. And the cops will shake the hand of the man who done it. This is the way traditonal White Societies function: police and yeomanry working together to create peaceful societies. East Asians also get peace – but no freedom. Traditionally they are terrified of their Police and Goverment and with good reason.
    Once you get big cities, things start to change I think. Spokane is different and Washington State as a whole is perhaps because of the huge urban area of Seatle. The police get overwhelmed by the amount of criminals and the horror of the crimes. The stop feeling any unity with the people they protect and the abuses begin. There is no replacement for an armed yeomanry. Only then can the Police serve the public well.
    That’s one idea anyway. Of course rural areas can be corrupt too sometimes. I’ve heard the state troopers of unpopulated Wyoming love to shake down out of state motorists. Tickets are encouraged as a source of State income.

  451. ak January 12, 2011 at 3:21 am #

    Out of the Blue…
    What if this person was being groomed by some agency to do something bad (let’s say) on the ML(k Day (like the Xm@s Tr33 lighting in Porland), but he just got impatient?
    Is Tucs0n part of the JT/tf?

  452. tucsonspur January 12, 2011 at 3:47 am #

    E, as of 2008 the mormon population of Arizona was about 5.8%. While this is a larger percentage than most states, I wouldn’t consider the state “riddled” with mormons. What surprised me was the percentage in Idaho and Wyoming.
    Also, if you read my post again, I think that you will find my mention of border and immigration issues related to what Dupnik said, not what Loughner did.
    Right on about the cost at Pima and the fringe elements in a decaying society perhaps listening to the wrong voices.

  453. ak January 12, 2011 at 4:09 am #

    (images from Groper-X [system at y-o-u-r Airport*])
    Right after these messages from our sponsors.
    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
    just k!66!9
    -ak
    *] thx wage-el

  454. Hancock1863 January 12, 2011 at 4:19 am #

    You said:

    So, tell me, does Democratic leadership DELIBERATELY TRY to lose – to further RW/Republican goals?
    Or – does Democratic leadership lose because karma and/or the THRUST of History makes their loss inevitable?
    This second idea makes more sense, but spell it out, man. What are you trying to say?
    And where does the hyperbole of your Space Lizard’s conspiracy end – and the Palin/Beck conspiracy to enslave America start?

    I have absolutely no idea why the Democratic Leadership always seems to play to lose, and lose they do, even when they win.
    As I mention before when I brought up my larger agnosticism regarding the specifics of why things are happening as they are, I differentiate what I speculate about and what I know.
    When it comes to stuff like this all I know are the results I see. The speculation is in the why, and that is the speculation that gets one funny looks.
    So all I can see for sure is the Democratic Leadership time and time and time again behaving for all the world as if they wish to lose, and getting their wish. Time and time again walking into every RW trap compliantly with their chins stuck out, then wondering every single time how it happened that they wound up KOed on the floor.
    Watch that grotesque little dance over and over and over again and you might start having suspicions, too.
    Are they just terminally gutless? Do they have Stockholm Syndrome? Do they just not care about the consituents they represent? Are they intimidated by stuff the like Anthrax Mailings, which were sent exclusively to Democratic representatives and liberal news agencies? (FBI says the corpse did it and I ALWAYS believe the authorities when they say the corpse did it)
    Is the RW Lie Machine/Corporate Media fusion there as much to manipulate the Democratic Leadership into following RW tenets and loathing their own base?
    I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know.
    But I know what my eyes can see. The Democratic Leadership plays to lose. The Democrats lose when they win. The Republicans are constantly playing to their base, firing them up and even when they can’t or won’t fully deliver to them, they give them a steady diet of rhetoric and morale building.
    The Democrats despise their base almost as much as the Republicans despise it. Read any of the DLC or New Democrat shit and it’s in many of the articles on the site, liberal-bashing language very similar to anything O’Reily or Hannity would say.
    For all intents and purposes, it appears as if the Democrats’ specific aim is to demoralize it’s own base into abject apathy and disgust. It’s working, too.
    Crazy, eh? On the surface of it, it doesn’t make sense. WHY would the Democrats denigrate and alienate the passionate people they need to make phone calls and knock on doors?
    I don’t know. I just know what I see. And what I see is that, while Cartman and his ilk pretend Liberals are SOOOOOOOOOOO powerful, the only group left the grotesquely spineless Democrats ever stand up to are the LIBERALS.
    What does that tell us? Far from being so powerful, Liberals are so weak that even the most gutlessly disgraceful neutered party since the German Social Democrats of 1933 isn’t scared to stand up to them, even though it is scared of it’s own shadow and TERRIFIED of the RW Lie Machine/Corporate Media fusion.
    Why is this? I don’t know, but I do know what I have seen over and over again these last 20 years and more. Maybe it’s the Space Lizards. Does that spell it out?
    Along that “conspiracy theory agnostic” (but with deep suspicions) line of thinking, I’d rather talk about the Space Lizards because seriously trying to examine the whys of things which we cannot know is fruitless and frustrating, so why the hell not have some fun with it?
    You can read “Defying Hitler”, just make sure your tinfoil helmet is secured so your thoughts can’t be read by the CIA Mind Control Machine.

  455. Alexandra January 12, 2011 at 6:10 am #

    Happy New Year Jim…
    And thanks for last week’s 2011 year overview, as always illuminating and I think your take on the middle-east is spot on.
    All very neatly links in to with the griftopia concept, bubble machines, vampire squid banking and the ‘we’re all in this together’ malarkey heist that’s currently breaking the US, UK most of the EU and non-mineral rich OECDs…
    But as ever, is any of this really ‘new’ that our politico/industrio ruling class elite are so wholly corrupt and self-serving? Just pick up any weekend magazine issue of the FT and see what they like to spend the filthy lucre on, follow the money trail as ever for a glimpse of the truth… *sniggers*
    If you dig a little deeper and avoid the vanilla sky controlled happy-clappy mainstream media, much of use can be gleaned.
    Its plain to see that the ‘rich’ have hijacked the Tea Party – initially started to massage the feelings of the white Christi bigoted poor perceived grievances…
    “Like Dude… errgh where’s ma family nurturing salaried job for life man?” Its been off-shored mate!!
    As will be any other form of to come fractional reserve crackpot-party which starts to gain momentum until side-tracked much the same…
    Interestingly the Lib Con party in charge over here in Blighty have back-tracked on the erm… cough, cough £8bn of city bankster bonuses paid out this month…
    Nice greed-head work if you can get it lol. As Tony Blair well knows, during 2010 he earned around £6m in consultancy fees, including £500k from Zurich Financial, £2m from JP Morgan and another £1m from the Kuwaiti Royal Family.
    Moving on… anyone in the US seen what the weather is doing down there in Brisbane? Your news TV is awfully state parochial!!
    What beautiful irony, the Aussies profit highly by selling every nugget of coal they can muster off to the Chinese, who then instantly burn it as quick as they can to keep the lights on…
    Which increases the flooding that so many of us are experiencing elsewhere. Well what the f#ck do you think happens when all the ice melts and goes into the oceans CFN’ers… eh?
    (Uber rainfall in the fall/spring and big snow in the winter is what happens)
    Meanwhile the centre equator belt of wee Gaia heats up to a permanent 50c sun-baked plus dust bowl)
    Indeed so many complex issues do need to be factored if for those 7bn folk whom keep chasing that elusive TV beamed into your lounge Anglo imperial consumerist 2 car 6 kid family dream…
    (And we all lived happily together for ever and ever after, watching disney created reality TV)
    Thankfully my boat delivery happens this year, and the good thing about rising sea levels is the lifting keel option becomes somewhat less critical…
    Ship ahoy there…
    BTW I’ll be stateside in Boston in two weeks time, I believe it has a strong Irish pedigree which suits me fine? And I guess as the home of Harvard and MIT, you could say that is the upper-brained city of your once fine & proud nation?
    Can’t wait to see how greenly enlightened it be…
    Though I doubt many from there will be fighting in the yet to come China/Russia east v Western/EU interests oil/coal wars?
    For that we look to the right-stuff recruits from the likes of Arizona. Due to the swelling ranks of pissed-orf ADHD videogamer programmed, twitchy-trigger fingered mind-f#cked males of 15-35 years olds wandering the globe – the jarhead fodder for ‘business-as-usual order’ – which will kick-off sooner rather than later… as the serious levels of oil depletion sink in.
    And conscription is the century’s old proven tool for easing the pressure quickly dontchafink?
    You just have to tweak the focus of outward hate right…
    Spin, spin….. spin.
    Be seeing you…

  456. Pucker January 12, 2011 at 7:40 am #

    I can’t get-my-head-around (as the Australians say) the contrast between the tragedy of Jared Lee Loughner, juxtaposed to the comedy of his school, Pima Community College: http://www.pima.edu/pimajobs/
    I see from their website that Pima Community College offers courses in Arabic, and Mandarin, Chinese.

  457. myrtlemay January 12, 2011 at 9:08 am #

    Just a quick, short note from my little corner of paradise. There are two large hospitals serving the hamlet in which I live, one being across the street from my apartment. This Sunday’s paper advertised a Job Fair for janitorial work. Today I read that HUNDREDS of applicants have applied for what amounts to only 12 positions. The article goes on to say that many of the applicants are former white collar workers needing a 40 hour paycheck with benefits.
    During the Depression, I had a relative who was a gas station manager in the ’20s. He and his wife moved to Pittsburgh sometime in the early to mid thirties. He came across an ad in the classifieds Help Wanted section, for a gas jockey (that’s what they called them then) and he decided to go apply for it. When he got there, the elevator was so full of other job hopefulls, he couldn’t get on! Happy days are here again!

  458. lbendet January 12, 2011 at 9:11 am #

    The Civics War continues:
    Sarah does it again
    The conflation the right wing spews is that the left in this country is nazi, communist and socialist and “paling around with the terrorists”. In their world you can never link the right to anything extreme or negative. That is reserved for the un-American “demcrat” party. In fact Michelle Backman has already said she would like the Democrats in Congress and Senate investigated for un-American activities. That’s what we are dealing with and its shocking that the media tries to tell us that both sides are exactly the same in their rhetoric.
    Sarah Pallin who sure knows how to dish it out, goes into full spectrum victimization mode as she deflects criticism she’s received by the media of her literal targeting of Democratic districts. Of course, she knew to take down the page as soon as the shootings were covered on the news. That’s the act of someone who knows they’re guilty. Never mind her quote “Don’t retreat reload” and the fact that several Democratic campaign offices around the country have suffered vandalism in the last two years. She would like to now tell you that the Democrats and media people are Nazis. That’s right she used the term “blood libel” which refers to the hate-filled superstition that Jews in Europe murdered children to use their blood in certain aspects of their religious rituals and holidays. She just hit a new low. I guess the girl can’t help it.
    After leaving her governorship to write a book by a ghost writer so she could go on tour, one can only wonder why the right has poured so much money into her and why she has any credibility at all to run for higher office.
    I don’t get the appeal. I must be clueless, is all I can say.

  459. myrtlemay January 12, 2011 at 9:20 am #

    Think I mentioned (on this site) when Miss Palin first arrived on the political scene what a complete imbecile she appeared to be (2007/08). Mentioned it in passing to a trainer at the gym I belonged to (said gym now bankrupt). I said something along the lines as lbendt: What do people see in such an egomaniacal airhead? His response? “She’s HOT!” So much for political discourse. Kinda like the news casters who are more concerned about their powder puffs than their facts. Where have you gone, Walter Cronkite? Edward R. Murrow? David Brinkley?

  460. lbendet January 12, 2011 at 9:49 am #

    What makes the hottentot so hot?
    She’s really not all that.
    Anyway, Walter Cronkite Edward R. Murrow David Brinkley were coming out of real journalism, not “communications” which is about selling ideology instead of fact-based information. That, my friend is a dying breed. Now anything goes, because of willful ignorance.

  461. progressorconserve January 12, 2011 at 10:05 am #

    Regarding Sarah and her “hotness” –
    This is far from the full explanation.
    Sarah may look OK compared to Madeline Albright and Hillary Clinton.
    But Sarah is really just an averagely attractive middle aged woman who has spit out a few kids.
    She would not begin to meet the airbrushed standards for “hot” that most 40 year old guys raised on porn and the internet aspire to reach.
    And as of this last family get-together at Christmas – I still know at least one college educated and career oriented 31 year old family WOMAN who thinks Palin is awesome – and who WILL vote for her in the primary.
    It is altogether a mystery to me.

  462. myrtlemay January 12, 2011 at 10:09 am #

    I know there are more than a few on this blog who hail from the great state of Illinois, home of our illustrious president. My question to you (or anyone for that matter) is what to make of the huge tax increases blowing your way (67% personal income tax, 46% corporate levy)? I don’t want to appear dense, although in my heart of hearts I know I am, but what type of impact do you see on not only your personal lives, but