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Excuse Me For Living

I srael has all the proof it needs that world opinion will never consider its right to exist important. The Obama White House, and a lot of the US News Media, portray the Hamas-Israel conflict as something like an amateur soccer match, with the uneven score (40-odd Israeli soldiers killed versus 1000-plus Palestinians, mostly civilians) showing that the contest is unfair, that Israel has “gone too far,” that they have entered the same moral zone as Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot, carrying out a “genocide.”

Of course, this is a real hot war, not a diversity training exercise, or a self-esteem course, or any sort of the kindergarten psychotherapy that has come to form the basis of American thought and policy. And a vicious world opinion uses America’s own moral fecklessness the way Hamas uses women and babies to shield its rocket installations.

Apparently world opinion also doesn’t take seriously Israel’s founding maxim, “never again,” meaning that Israelis will not passively wait for world opinion to save them from an enemy that plainly and clearly seeks to annihilate them, as happened 1933-45. The Hamas organization is explicitly dedicated to the destruction of Israel. That is not a rhetorical gimmick; it is its declared unwavering primary goal.

The claim that Israel seeks to annihilate the Palestinians is simply a lie. Israel seeks to stop rocket attacks and tunnel invasions, and as long as Hamas is dedicated to those actions, they can expect a forceful Israeli reaction. The sealed border of Gaza has been part of that reaction, to counteract the traffic in war materials and the ready supply of suicide bombers who, Hamas declares, “love death more than the Israelis love life.”

The Hamas war leaders are killing their own people to score public relations points. The particulars of the Hamas arsenal embedded among the civilian Gaza population are so firmly established that the facts are hardly worth rehearsing. Anyway, the world doesn’t care about those facts. Israel’s will to exist is an annoyance to it.

Of course, Gaza is just one flash point in an Islamic region much more broadly inflamed in conflict between different Islamic brands and their political subsidiaries. The main reason (unacknowledged) is overpopulation of the region due to short-term wealth from oil. With oil production peaking across North Africa and the Middle East, the world can expect at least a generation of violent conflict over the table-scraps of Modernity. Even the Islamic nations with scant oil reserves have been hugely affected by a half-century of this regional oil wealth. The crack-up in the shadow of this brief historical episode has been easy to anticipate. World opinion is not going to stop it.

By the way, where was world opinion a month ago when ISIS was crucifying and beheading its way out of Syria into central Iraq? World opinion took those horrors in stride because that’s exactly the kind of behavior that world opinion now expects from radical Islamic maniacs.

Israel is a sideshow to all that, really, but one that attracts a lot of attention, with the memory of the Nazi “final solution” lingering on in the atrophying moral organs of what has been loosely called “the West,” where the last great world conflagration played out. It is ridiculous, of course, to compare the lot of the Gaza Palestinians to the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto. The Jews locked in the Warsaw ghetto were not firing rockets out of it, nor did they ever declare that Germany had no right to exist.

The Palestinians will find justice when they find a leadership that is willing to grant Israel a right to exist and when they stop firing rockets and sending tunnel commandoes into Israel to wreak havoc. If they started with that, they could expect a conversation to begin with Israel over new terms of coexistence. But they have to demonstrate an interest in coexistence. There’s no evidence of that so far. Why this simple equation is not understood by world opinion is an abiding mystery.

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View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

369 Responses to “Excuse Me For Living”

  1. shabbaranks July 28, 2014 at 9:54 am #

    Great post today.

    • ehh July 28, 2014 at 10:32 am #

      No… If you took my land and threw me out of my house, I’d fight you as long as drew breath. Jim, you’re on the wrong side of this one.

      • shabbaranks July 28, 2014 at 10:57 am #

        ehh…no, great post. You’re being ahistorical but of course, you don’t know that. Oh well, Israel will prevail.

        • ehh July 28, 2014 at 2:31 pm #

          no… I’m just saying if you took my home and my land I would fight you until I took back my home and my land or I was dead, then my children would fight you, then their children… It wasn’t right then, and it isn’t right now.

          Gaza is a death camp. If you support the Israeli occupation then you’re on the wrong side of morality, the wrong side of humanity and the wrong side of history..

          I admire and respect Jim’s work, but on this issue I vigorously disagree.

          • WW July 29, 2014 at 10:38 am #

            Ergo if the Native Americans butcher your children, blow up your cars, houses and fire missiles randomly into your cities you will support them because you are occupying their land and as you so put a multi generational war is ok. After all it wasn’t right then therefore its not right now. And of course you cannot even claim to have wanted your traditional homeland or even have lost millions of your people making your ancestors actions even more reprehensible!
            If Gaza is a death camp why is the population rising so fast, why are the palestians listed as one of the most obese people in the world by the WHO. Why is half the population under 18.

          • ehh July 30, 2014 at 12:23 am #

            WW – It is an interesting thought exercise, that I’ve made many times… The American Indians got hosed too, however, it’s been more than a century and a half since. I think its tool old a beef at this point. It is interesting to note, that the Indians did fight back when they realized they were boned. And they were beat into submission and banished to our version of Gaza.

            The Palestinian’s grievance only dates to around 1947, which is still kinda fresh, and they have been fighting back since they too realized they were boned.

            The Israelis want to beat the Palestinians into submission too. Failing that their choices start to get rather slim. Frankly, I see them down to two… 1.) Genocide or 2.) End the Apartheid in the South African style. The two state solution dangled at the Palestinians has been a non-starter for ever. One man one vote is the only way. Why can’t anyone in their right mind get behind that?

          • WW July 30, 2014 at 3:05 pm #

            Sorry ehh but its been too long is just a lame excuse. Israel has been around for the better part of 70 years, only 20 odd years before that did you get around to giving native American people a vote in their own land. Remember 1 million muslims live in israel and they have the vote, the palis in Gaza voted in Hamas. The owners of your country had to wait 150 years to get theirs and you still have them crammed onto resevations most of which is land unfit for other uses. By your standard all the israelis have to do is last a few more years and then they can shove the Palis on to resevations. Oh and revoke their voting rights for 50 years or so.
            . If you believe that Israel should not exist then nor should the USA it is built on stolen land whose people suffered far worse than any Palistininan.
            Stand by your beliefs and be consistent, pack your stuff and go somewhere else

          • seawolf77 August 3, 2014 at 7:48 pm #

            Crocodile Dundee said it best. “You see that rock over there. It’s been here a million years and will still be there a million years from now. We’ll both be long gone, so arguing over who owns it is like 2 fleas arguing who owns the dog their on.”

        • zaphod42 July 28, 2014 at 3:14 pm #

          There are bound to be many conflicting posts on this particular subject.

          Giving each side in this conflict their own due, it seems to me that the Palestinians and Israelis could both put up or shut up by establishing that mythical state of Palestine using 1967 borders. Then see what Palestine does! And we should back whichever of the two is subject to attack by the other.

          Of course, we should all know that the real stupidity in this whole thing is that each would be a radical Theocracy, with all of the dumb-ass mumbo jumbo that goes along with that. We need to let both know that the US does not back either religion! And, again, there are Christians in the US who want to back the Israeli version of Theocracy (so that the Dome of the Rock can be torn down, the Temple rebuilt, and Armageddon staged as “scheduled” in their version. And, they think no one but they know about that!

          The alternative is that we back out of the middle east and let them bomb each other into the stone age, and finish by stoning each other, like they were doing 3,000 years ago.


          • sharonsj July 29, 2014 at 4:17 pm #

            We don’t need to wait an see what a Palestinian state does. An Hamas spokesman in an interview yesterday said, “Give us a Palestinian state first and then we’ll decide if we’ll recognize a Jewish state.” Sure they will….

      • Cavepainter July 28, 2014 at 12:07 pm #

        You, like too many others, believe that there is time and resources enough to make amends for perceived injustices of the past. The grim truth is that humanity is confronted with necessity to hit the “reset” button because survival of any part of our species is sketchy at best and only in those few places where sustainability with given population remains — damn few areas. Of course, idealist like you cling to the fantasy that redistribution of population and all accepting minimum caloric intake through a tube, living life more or less like that of a refugee processing center, will somehow allow accommodation of the total human population. BS! America had better close its borders now and get on with working out how it can provide for its existing population while preserving some level of livability.

        • routersurfer July 28, 2014 at 1:58 pm #

          10-4 Cavepainter

        • Janos Skorenzy July 28, 2014 at 2:10 pm #

          10-4 Good Buddy. We got ourselves a convoy.

      • K-Dog July 28, 2014 at 12:13 pm #

        Condoning the murder of Palestinians three weeks in a row. The shark has been jumped.


        Excuse Me For Living

        Why? Going by an eye for an eye (and not saying that’s right) you’ve just denied the right for others to live so what makes you so special?

        Nothing I see!

        • CancelMyCard July 29, 2014 at 8:46 pm #


          You are a Bitch of supreme Jerkdom.

          Lick your ass and go away elsewhere.

          You are NOT wanted here.

          Urinate on yourself and your spawn, but do not give us your sick personality here anymore.

      • routersurfer July 28, 2014 at 1:57 pm #

        Who displaced who ? Go back about 1800 years and do a bit of reading. Removing people from homes pre dates Mohamed’s life by hundreds of years. The Euro powers set up the Balfour Declaration. So stop putting the chicken before the egg. This is a long messy business. With no winners and a ton of dead over eight thousand + years.

      • Chris Horvath July 29, 2014 at 6:44 pm #

        That’s interesting, because in the year 700, the whole of the Middle East and North Africa was Christian land. In fact, two of the three most important cities in Christianity were Antioch and Alexandria (in modern-day Syria and Egypt, respectively.)

        Then the Arab Muslims swept-in, repopulated, and conquered the area; thereby plunging the remaining Christian land (Europe) into a dark age.

        When these European Christians emerged from that age, they, unsuccessfully, attempted to re-conquer the lost lands, which they considered to be holy.

        So, are you suggesting that Europeans resume their efforts to re-take the Middle East and North Africa?

        • routersurfer August 1, 2014 at 9:50 am #

          No. But this fight did not start in 1947 & who displaced who is not a closed question. 700 BCE mostly. Christian ? I think not. Source please.

    • NickS July 28, 2014 at 11:34 am #

      Having just read about another TEN children blown to pieces in Gaza this post was a nauseating read. Can’t quite that believe James has been revealed as such an unpleasant, blindly insensitive commentator on such events. Then again, in retrospect, I should have noticed that this insensitivity and brutal, bullying attitude underlay much of his wit and satire. I’m done with it. Time to move on.

      • uslabor July 28, 2014 at 11:56 am #

        Nick, maybe you’re right.

      • vengeur July 28, 2014 at 12:03 pm #

        I really don’t give a sh*t what Israel does or doesn’t do. But as an American taxpayer, I am sick as hell of being forced to pay for it. Now I see we are arming “moderate” Syrian Rebels. LOL! The Middle East truly is the wet dream the American MILITARY INDUSTRAL COMPLEX and their creepy warmongers like John McCain and Hillary Clinton.

        • studejack July 28, 2014 at 9:34 pm #

          This is the only subject with which I disagree (not completely, just somewhat) with our Hero. Tonight there was about a 1/4 of the evening news devoted to the problems of Israel. If you had tuned into Harry Reasoner and Howard K. Smith on ABC evening news forty years ago (1974) (which I did regularly), the same thing would have been true. So, then . . . why is this? When less than 2% of the American population is Jewish? Do we hear regularly about the problems of Ireland, where many of our ancestors came from? How about England, Italy, or Germany? While I certainly wish the Israelis well in their well-deserved right and obvious determination to survive as a national state, I’m with vengeur above, in that as a taxpayer I am rather tired of so much news time and resources being devoted to the survival of this rather tiny country, not to mention billions in tax dollars. We need to focus more on the problems that JHK himself so expertly and cleverly describes for us, the ecological and economic ones that affect all countries and peoples of the world, and not so much on the problems of a very small, resource-poor country whose existence certainly very few Americans have ever questioned, but the obsession with which on the part of the news media has the undesirable side-effect of contributing, I fear, to the growth of the notion that Jewish people have too much influence on American public policy.

          • CancelMyCard July 29, 2014 at 8:50 pm #

            Because the Jews are the Bankers that run and rule not only the US Banking System, but the World Banking System.

            This is NEWS to you?

        • routersurfer August 1, 2014 at 9:55 am #

          The same is coming here.

      • K-Dog July 28, 2014 at 12:22 pm #

        Yes you are right, it is time to move on. I take a different point of view at my blog. The insensitivity and brutality has lost all wit and satire.

        Some may see the future but that does not mean they are the same ones who know what to do about it!

        • Cavepainter July 31, 2014 at 11:20 am #

          Good riddance. If I’m correct, this site’s purpose is to reckon with objective reality, not proffer emotional feel good balms that assuage anxieties over the very disturbing choices humanity now faces due to over population and the post octane dependency age. Be more honest, join Pat Robertson’s 700 Club which panders similar nostrums to your sentimental idealism, only of the prophetic faith flavor rather than of your more secular batch. Shit creek has just run dry for humanity so there’ll be a lot of mud to slog through if any number at all will survive the contraction that JHK addresses.

          • Glitch Mobiliou July 31, 2014 at 6:10 pm #

            It’s also important to face our own delusions and wishful thinkings, especially if/as/where we harp on others’ and in our books, podcasts, blogs and talking-head appearances, etc….
            That said, it appears that James H. K.’s podcast ‘I-voted-for-Obama-twice’ quips and Israel take is delusive and wishful thinking insofar as voting for Obama twice and the coercive violence-base state context is going to somehow change the ‘landscape’, the world, in ways that Jim appears to want, post peaks.
            This kind of ostensible disconnect or (cognitive) dissonance– hard-nosed to boot– appears to suggest the fundamentals of what hypocrisy, assorted disasters and nightmares, etc., are made of.
            Jim, you can’t eat your cake and have it too unless you’re willing to consume your own vomit.

      • routersurfer August 1, 2014 at 9:51 am #

        Sorry to see you go.

    • uslabor July 28, 2014 at 11:57 am #

      How nice of you to say that.

    • Beryl of Oyl July 28, 2014 at 1:17 pm #

      I think it’s great as well.

    • franklin July 29, 2014 at 3:29 am #

      Krap post today. You are such a good writer when you talk about stuff that you know about! We know you never studied any semitic languages, we know you would probably have a hard time finding bethlehem and hebron on an unmarked map, and yes you are going to drive home the fact that you never spent much time living near the eastern meditteranean. Is the situation here at home that bad that even a krap distraction is better than facing it?

  2. capt spaulding July 28, 2014 at 10:03 am #

    It will be interesting to see how Israel deals with the increasing population of Arabs. They will outnumber the Jews at some point, and will want more representation than they have now. Quite a dilemma.

    • routersurfer July 28, 2014 at 2:00 pm #

      “at some point” A bit late to the show, I think.

  3. Neon Vincent July 28, 2014 at 10:07 am #

    “The main reason (unacknowledged) is overpopulation of the region due to short-term wealth from oil. With oil production peaking across North Africa and the Middle East, the world can expect at least a generation of violent conflict over the table-scraps of Modernity.”

    I just showed my students “The End of Suburbia” again last week. The movie has held up pretty well over the past decade. As an aside, about the only thing that didn’t happen is the natural gas shortage. Thank fracking for that. However, I warn my students that it only kicked the can down the road and even the more optimistic forecasts predict peak natural gas by the end of the decade. Otherwise, all the things that my students have seen happening over the past seven years but didn’t understand why, the movie explains to them.

    That movie, made for a North American audience, focused on the effects of peak oil in North America, with side trips to Europe and Asia. The Middle East only figured into the picture as the setting for resource wars fought between the U.S. and either the local powers or China. It’s about time that the effects of peak oil alone be considered on the region and its peoples. They don’t need to have foreign powers come in and wage resource wars; they can do it all by themselves.

  4. 99 cent nation July 28, 2014 at 10:15 am #

    Great post. One thing I do know is I would not plop myself down in a neighborhood where every hates me no matter where my grand parents came from or what religion I believed in.

  5. upstater July 28, 2014 at 10:17 am #

    The root of Israel’s problem is that it is a nation-state based on religion. Religion has no basis for being the defining fact of a nation state — this applied the the Islamic State “Caliphate” or the budding Hindu-nationalist state.

    Jimbo, how would you feel if the most extreme Southern Baptists established THEIR religion as the state religion and used their fundamentalist interpretation of the bible to re-write the Constitution?

    The Likudniks have taken an egalitarian, socialized welfare state and transformed it into a war-mongering neoliberal colonial power — just like their principal benefactor – the US.

    And in case you have not noticed, US military bases are almost always in civilian population centers, and we don’t have the density of Gaza. Any attack on US military bases would result in civilian casualties — is the military using its citizens as human shields?

    The only solution after 47 years of occupation and colonial settlement by Likudnik Zionists is a secular one-state solution.

    And regarding ISIS outrage, in case you missed it (the US MSM surely has!):

    One of the oldest Christian communities has been destroyed as the Sunni Caliphate spreads


    And as Fisk writes in his other piece, what would the reaction be if it was 40 Palestinians and 1100 Israelis killed?

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    • Karah July 28, 2014 at 11:20 am #

      after chuckling over the juvenile retort…

      this is serious!

      where are hamas supposed to shoot from if every inch of their territory is occupied with civilians?

      maybe iran can fight for them?

      • johannus July 28, 2014 at 5:50 pm #

        where are hamas supposed to shoot from if every inch of their territory is occupied with civilians?

        SURELY you jest, Karah.
        Where is it supposed to shoot from?
        You really don’t get it do you?
        It isn’t supposed to be shooting from ANYWHERE.
        That’s the point. Mindless violence against the Israelis,
        which you so blithely and completely accept. Civilized people don’t shoot at one another,
        they don’t tunnel under one another’s property, even my neighbor was stopped by the courts for allowing his dogs to tunnel under my fence.

        • Karah July 28, 2014 at 9:08 pm #

          i get it and you know i am not stupid when i challenge public opinion to decide how to treat the problem. do you regard hamas as a criminal organization or as a political organization? the answer is criminal so women and children are not protected from aiding and abetting criminals. if your answer is political, israel should never have bombed.

          obviously, its easier to justify wiping out groups of people by labeling them as terrorists or unrecognizable authorities…its what the “conflict” in afghan/iraq is all about. that is the case from africa to russia right now regarding many violent groups.

          in the end, what happens anywhere crime runs rampant?
          what happens when there is no law and no one can enforce the existing laws? duh! the criminals win!

          so i ask again, how do hamas fight by the rules of engagement and expect to win?

    • Karah July 28, 2014 at 11:44 am #

      oh…and he overlooked the jews moving into an already overpopulated region from the usa purely due to zionist propaganda.

      • routersurfer August 1, 2014 at 10:00 am #

        Idaho rolled up the welcome mat.

    • SteveO July 28, 2014 at 12:17 pm #

      “The Likudniks have taken an egalitarian, socialized welfare state and transformed it into a war-mongering neoliberal colonial power — just like their principal benefactor – the US.”

      It’s interesting that Likud took over in Israel about the same time as bad St Ronnie and his band of imperialists took over the US and mad Maggy Thatcher came to power and dragged the UK into the same fold. The late 70s were to be a disaster for human history.

  6. orbit7er July 28, 2014 at 10:21 am #

    James Kunstler seems to have a common blindness when it comes to Israel and its relentless push for new settlements in Palestinian lands,
    its militarization, its surveillance and its abandonment of its own founding principles. Albert Einstein, who supported the founding of Israel as a non religious State, said he could not support a religious state. Yes, the Palestinians made a huge mistake when they turned back to violence after the first Intifada and have only made things worse by firing rockets indiscriminately at Israel. But Israel’s relentless pursuit of new settlements, new arms, militarization, building walls and trying like a plutocratic walled community, to somehow isolate itself from the Palestinians, Arabs and Persians surrounding it has been a disaster for 30 years. Aided and abetted by innumerable US vetoes of any judgments against a nuclear armed nation which refuses to sign the Non-Proliferation Pact, even as the US hypocritically attacks Iran for its nuclear ambitions.
    Israel has spied on its erstwhile ally and blind supporter of all it does, attacked the Vincennes and bulldozed nonviolent Peace Activist Rachel Corrie to death in 2003 even though she was an American citizen. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie )
    War and violence is not the answer in the age of Peak Oil and Climate Change and is only leading to more and more disasters around the world, from Iraq to Afghanistan to Ukraine to Africa…
    Israel has been playing this game since the Egypt Peace Accord as the US taxpayers have shelled out billions in military aid to both Egypt and Israel (good profits for the merchants of Death like Boeing, Lockheed etc!) and even Saudi Arabia and then US leaders claim they can do “nothing” to control Israel’s bombings of Lebanon, Gaza, Iraq, etc.

    Why are US taxpayers still playing this game?
    The billions spent on arming Israel and Egypt for the profits of the merchants of death could have been spent on joint projects for desalinization, solar arrays in the desert, Green Transit that benefit all the people in the region and not just military elites and fomenters of eternal hate, and prepare for Peak Oil and Climate Change.

    • WSHancock1864 July 28, 2014 at 11:33 am #


      Excellently post. Well said!

      Especially about Israel refusing to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Pact, a hanging offense if any other nation dared to flout such an important treaty.

      • WW July 29, 2014 at 10:46 am #

        What you mean like Pakistan. Where are all the comments about them refusing to sign? Or is it ok for Muslims to decide not to sign an agreement but not the Jews? Not a peep out of the UN about it, wonder why.

    • routersurfer July 28, 2014 at 2:03 pm #

      We paid because we did not want them joining our Country Clubs and Chamber of Commerce. We did not want them here.

      • Janos Skorenzy July 28, 2014 at 2:15 pm #

        Nonsense. The Neo-Cons took over the Republican Party after being Trotskyites. Their viewpoints dominate the Chamber of Commerce.

        • CancelMyCard July 29, 2014 at 9:08 pm #

          The Republicans are now Communist??

          Wow, That’s a good one!

  7. Cold N. Holefield July 28, 2014 at 10:26 am #

    Your observations about the Left/left and its pet Palestinian cause is spot on. If you remain neutral in this eternal debate over the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and try to view it impartially and objectively with a clear head and a constructive approach, you’re quickly labeled a Zionist. So, even though I didn’t know I was one, I’m now a Zionist. I, as many of you know, have been labeled many things over the years — the latest being a Zionist because I challenge the hypocrisy of the Left/left when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They simply are not rational — but instead a bunch of obsessive, foaming-at-the-mouth rabid dogs who cannot be reasoned with in any way.

    It’s Time We Have That Talk

    • Karah July 28, 2014 at 11:48 am #

      so your final solution is?…

      • Cold N. Holefield July 28, 2014 at 11:58 am #

        It’s not final — only a proposed solution you’ll find at the link. What you’ll also find at the link is why it will never happen, and you and your attitude are part and parcel as to why it’s improbable it would ever be considered let alone drawn up and implemented.

        A question for you though. You said the following above.

        where are hamas supposed to shoot from if every inch of their territory is occupied with civilians?

        Nowhere. Hamas is not supposed to shoot rockets. There should be no Hamas let alone any rockets for it to shoot. But there is — hence my proposed but improbable solution.

        • Karah July 28, 2014 at 12:07 pm #

          thats avoiding the question by denying reality.

          there is a war declared and acted upon.
          the geneva convention is tossed out the window.
          now what?

          • gtuner July 28, 2014 at 12:25 pm #

            there are no civilians

  8. noel bodie July 28, 2014 at 10:34 am #

    History and philosophy do not count for much when dealing with daily rocket attacks whose INTENTION is to kill as many Israelis as possible; that they are ineffective is beside the point and the Israelis have the means to stop them and with as little loss of life to themselves as possible. If you poke a hornet’s nest do not complain if you get stung.

    • Karah July 28, 2014 at 12:00 pm #

      how can one read someone elses intention? psychoanalysts are not fighting the wars! if you intend to kill a huge amount of one state…would you not try a bit harder than hamas? they know about the iron curtain, they know for every 100 they kill they will lose 1000 due to a warped sense of justice in that region. i am not for war and i am viewing the area as impartially as anyone can. both sides are very very wrong. the point is, when people are viewed as groups rather than individuals, thats when people can all of a sudden read minds and it makes the targets bigger and easier to kill. its not one mans intent but a cancerous mass that needs excising, right? all of a sudden war breeds dehumanization. if the united nations is going to succeed they must find a solution to these kinds of wars. i believe we will always have some conflicts somewhere irregardless of what any manmade org decides. noone can read hearts.

  9. nsa July 28, 2014 at 10:34 am #

    Churchill used the population of London as human shields in 1940 to discredit the nazis…………

    • shabbaranks July 28, 2014 at 1:14 pm #

      Nonsense. From July until September 1940 the Luftwaffe bombed RAF Fighter Command targets to gain air superiority as a prelude to invasion of England in the proposed Operation Sea Lion.

      Seeing that this was not producing the results he wanted, Adolf Hitler (who believed his extensive military experience as a corporal twenty-two years earlier qualified him to lead the world’s largest and most advanced military) declared on September 4, 1940 in a well-known speech that it was time to bomb England’s cities. Consequently the Luftwaffe raids on England’s cities commenced on September 7, 1940.

      Churchill did not control the German war effort. Rather, Hitler did.

    • routersurfer July 28, 2014 at 2:15 pm #

      nsa stop the drug use.Churchill did not place rockets in schools and peoples homes and then fire them at the poor peaceful Nazis. The Nazis sent poorly guided, if you can even call them that rockets towards the general direction of England. Do you really think he needed any help making the Nazis look bad ? So how long is your hair nsa ?

    • S M Tenneshaw August 20, 2014 at 10:10 pm #

      Obviously he didn’t discredit them at all, at least not in your eyes.

  10. progress4what July 28, 2014 at 10:48 am #

    Jim, I understand your points, but consider what the Israelis are doing now to be excessive. The pure fact is that Israel will always exist, as long as they have the US government and military in their corner and have their own nuclear weapons. And I really don’t care what the Israelis do, except to mourn the needless deaths of any innocent Israelis and innocent Palestinians who are caught up in this madness.

    My feeling is that the Israelis, like a lot of other peoples living on contested real estate around the world, would have been better off if they had never formed an alliance with the US in the first place.

    Note to other posters – JHK deleted several posts last week. He may delete this one. If you put very much work in a post and want to see it later – you should consider saving a copy before posting.

    And thanks for the week’s work, JHK. And thanks for allowing the free and polite exchange of disagreeable ideas here.

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  11. gasman July 28, 2014 at 10:51 am #

    What bullshit!!, Churchill was many things but he never placed civilians shelters near ball bearing factories or any other high value target. The German bombing of London was indiscriminate. Designed to weaken the will of the British.

    This is simple are we going to side with the savagery and the ignorance of Islam or do we side with a modern civilized people? The left has there collective head up their ass on this one.

    If Israel has no right to exist then none of the countries that derive from the old ottoman empire have the right to exist. It is Jewish hatred that drives all this rhetoric from the left.

    • WSHancock1864 July 28, 2014 at 11:09 am #

      Both the Untermenschen argument and the anti-semitic/self-hating Jew false calumny tactic in the same post!

      How’s the Hasbara War Room? Is the A/C cool enough and are you getting enough to eat and drink?

      That’s a great racket you have going. If I murder 50 innocent strangers after someone shoots bottle rockets into my yard, can I then get off by accusing anyone who criticizes my actions as being a hateful anti-Hancockite?

      Great racket! Brilliant PR!

    • uslabor July 28, 2014 at 11:34 am #

      What would you say to Jews on the left, or living in Israel, that find Israel’s murder unacceptable? You have nothing.

      • James Howard Kunstler July 28, 2014 at 11:47 am #

        I would say, “Grow up.”

        • WSHancock1864 July 28, 2014 at 11:57 am #

          Of course you would.

          Short, declarative, and dismissive. Like when mainstream types look at your many facts on Peak Oil, environment, and our Potemkin economy and derisively snort, “Conspiracy Theorist” or “Doomer Nutcase”.

          I mean, it’s not as if you could “take ’em down” with facts.

          You sure you wouldn’t rather call them Conspiracy Theorists or Nutcases?

    • Janos Skorenzy July 28, 2014 at 2:19 pm #

      The Jews dominated the Old Left, but not the new. So you were right about the past, but not the present.

  12. rckrueger July 28, 2014 at 10:57 am #

    Gaza is clearly a case of over population and over extension of a sustainable resource base. The biggest problem with Islamic ideology at this time is that it prohibits the one thing that would mitigate this crisis – family planning and population control. Incidentally the root cause of the Syrian crisis is over population and the stripping of fossilized water. Ironically, the only Islamic state that even appreciates this problem is Iran, which promotes a rigorous contraception program.

    Israel is on the right side of history. They have a right to defend their fortress state and their way of life at the expense of a suicidal Sunni culture that will probably self destruct of its own accord in due time.

  13. joomlabliss July 28, 2014 at 11:26 am #

    Well, those ratios of casualties on both sides do mean something, do they not? Such a disproportionate response on the part of Israel has gotta be motivated by something. But surely, it has nothing to do with the new discoveries of gas deposits on the Palestinian territories. It’s just Israelis fighting for survival.

    Israel is clearly not in imminent danger, not from Hamas, at any rate. Right now Israel is in bed with ISIS, but with time, when ISIS establish their control over a significant amount of the middle-eastern territory – they will turn against Israel to be sure.

    Israel will best serve its interests by finding ways to peacefully co-exist with its neighbors and share gas revenues they way it’s been traditionally done: whichever territory has the gas deposits, that side gets the revenue.

    • WW July 29, 2014 at 10:53 am #

      In WW2 more Germans died, both civilians and military, than the UK and US combined. Such a disproportionate response by us don’t you think?

  14. uslabor July 28, 2014 at 11:29 am #

    James, is this true? Do you delete posts that challenge your position?

    • James Howard Kunstler July 28, 2014 at 11:54 am #

      I deleted the comment because it was mendacious and stupid and reflected poorly on this blog.

      • Karah July 28, 2014 at 12:14 pm #

        i could tag that label on about hundred other posts still up…but noone is reading them anymore if ever.

  15. Elvira Budda July 28, 2014 at 11:32 am #

    Amazing how the majority of posts prove exactly Jim’s point. Jews/Israelis accused of “stealing” land, being compared to Nazis, Gaza to the Warsaw Ghetto, blah, blah, etc. Thanks guys for your anti-semitic comments. We know who you are – we’ve been dealing with the likes of you for a long time. You’re starting to get boring. Good luck with your support of war-mongering Jihadis. And if you happen to be Eurotrash leftards, you better practice your “Allah Akhbars”. You’ll be needing them. Ta ta!

    Never Again!

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    • NickS July 28, 2014 at 11:41 am #

      How exactly is it “anti-semitic” to point out the inhumanity of killing hundreds of innocent women and children? Israel’s responsibility should be to exorcise its overwhelming firepower with restraint and humanity. To stand on moral ground. That way it would garner world sympathy and support and bring a much quicker end to this horror. Instead it acts like the school-yard bully who, having been challenged turns into a murderous thug. Are you blind to this? Why on earthy can you not see that ‘two wrongs don’t make a right’ … the Hamas rockets do not give permission for mass slaughter of innocents

      • Lindy1933 July 28, 2014 at 8:23 pm #

        I would like to point at a bit of history. The fire bombing of Tokyo in the spring of 1945 killed in excess of 100,000 mostly civilians (the worst day in all of history). We cheered. Then there was Nagasaki and Hiroshima which killed civilians. The raids on Berlin and Dresden were the same. Not one American got killed on American soil. “War is hell.” This war between Hamas and Israel is no different. It is a war and one side or the other will prevail … the fact that it is one-sided is irrelevant. BTW: A lot of people on both sides will get very rich as always. My ‘war’ was Viet Nam … what an abortion that was and made a lot less sense that this war in the Gaza/Israel. It is just sad.

      • WW July 29, 2014 at 11:09 am #

        Where are your tears for the thousands of victims of ISIS, for the dozens that died this week in Afghanistan, for the victims and forced brides of Boko. Where is your heart rendering plea for the quarter of a million dead Christians in Sudan for the millions displaced? For the dead in Ukraine, Chechenya, Georgia, why do Buddhist priests blown up in thailand escape your compassion?
        The worlds press give scant coverage to the beheadings in Syria, had they done so you wouldn’t bother protesting about it because your issue is not the dead, whatever religion they are, or even with the perpetrators in the other acts. Your lack of comment on them tells us so. Therefore the only rational conclusion is that your ire is directed so because of your anti semitism.

    • desertflower July 28, 2014 at 12:48 pm #

      I’m really sorry, James, for many years I have looked forward to Monday morning and your column. As long as you stayed within your field of competence, it always was a good read and I learned a lot. In the political field, you are, to my tastes, far off to the right, too much to digest latetly.
      Here is an article by Bob koehler which illustrates beautifully all those things that you don’t know or don’t want to accept:

      a excerpt, and at the end the URL – great journalism:

      Never Again to Us

      Wednesday, July 23rd, 2014

      By Robert C. Koehler

      “Israel regrets every injury to civilians. I call on the residents of Gaza: Don’t stay there. Hamas wants you to die, we want you to be safe.”

      This is Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, as quoted in the Jewish Daily Forward, cleansing the nation’s collective conscience. Is it really that easy to sweep away the moral sting of violent action? A captive population is being pummeled with missiles. Well over 500 Palestinians have died so far in Operation Protective Edge, three-quarters of them civilians and, of course, many of them children. But “we want you to be safe” and wish we didn’t have to do this.

      Netanyahu, pushed into a public relations corner by global sympathy for the Palestinians, also made this slightly more cynical, less regret-tinged comment: “They want to pile up as many civilian dead as they can. They use telegenically dead Palestinians for their cause. They want the more dead, the better.”

      Glenn Greenwald compared this remark to a 1941 comment by Joseph Goebbels, belittling the Jews for plucking the sympathy strings of soft-hearted Germans: “One suddenly has the impression,” the Nazi propaganda minister wrote, “that the Berlin Jewish population consists only of little babies whose childish helplessness might move us, or else fragile old ladies.”

      Violence begets violence in a never-ending cycle. And violence is almost always perpetrated against the powerless. The perpetrators have “interests” at stake but almost nothing to lose. Bombing a civilian population is the moral equivalent of torture. This is the story of Western civilization; it’s the story of “progress.” On and on it goes.

      Writer Naomi Klein, who is Jewish-Canadian, put it this way when she spoke in Israel in 2009, according to Haaretz: “The debate boils down to the question: ‘Never again to everyone, or never again to us?’”

      Nations aren’t formed around the first possibility, which requires an evolutionary leap we haven’t made as a species: to build collective structures that honor the whole of humanity. Nations require enemies. Last week, writing about nationalism, I quoted historian Michael Howard, who wrote: “From the very beginning, the principle of nationalism was almost indissolubly linked, both in theory and practice, with the idea of war.”

      Israel is the contemporary poster child of this principle.

      In an open letter addressed to the United Nations and the nations of the world, 64 public figures — among them, seven Nobel Peace Prize recipients — called for an arms embargo against Israel, whose “ability to launch such devastating attacks with impunity largely stems from the vast international military cooperation and trade that it maintains with complicit governments across the world.”

      This is the hegemonic complicity, one might say, that rules the world. Richard Falk, former U.N. special rapporteur on Palestinian human rights, called it “accountability for enemies of the West, impunity for the West and its friends.”

      He went on: “Such double standards highlight the tensions between law and justice. There is currently no greater beneficiary of this deformed political culture of impunity than the political leadership and military command structure of Israel.”

      The most chilling sentences in the open letter signed by the Nobel laureates and others were these: “Israel’s military technology is marketed as ‘field-tested’ and exported across the world. Military trade and joint military-related research relations with Israel embolden Israeli impunity in committing grave violations of international law and facilitate the entrenchment of Israel’s system of occupation, colonization and systematic denial of Palestinian rights.”

      Field-tested? There’s more going on here than alleged self-defense, or even the pursuit of territorial interests. This is about business. Israel is one of the world’s leading arms exporters, ranking number six globally in 2012, behind the United States, Russia and France. Britain and Germany, according to IHS Jane’s Defense Weekly. Periodically bombing the Gaza Strip is apparently the way it field-tests its weapons and maintains a position of global respect among the international war-mongering and moneyed classes — which own the world, or at least assume they do.

      Indeed, Israeli journalist Yotam Feldman is the director of a 2013 documentary called “The Lab,” which asserts that the occupied territories, whatever else they are, have become a lab for testing and showcasing Israel’s weapons systems.

      There’s such a thing as self-defense, but there’s no such thing as a principled, or legitimate, war. Murder is always murder: a zero-sum game of winning and losing through sheer, violent domination.

      As individuals, we can look at the carnage that our own and other governments wreak and cry, from the depth of our souls, “Never again.”

      When we band together in armed groups, we link in fear and hatred and cheapen our salvation. “Never again to us (and only us)” is a battle cry of the lost, guaranteeing perpetual war and everyone’s ultimate demise — even the profiteers’.


      also a greeat source on the truth ois The Saker, of course:


      best to you all, and I am really very saddened by today’s article.


    • Javamtn July 28, 2014 at 1:22 pm #

      Ditto! Well said…

  16. oldnurse July 28, 2014 at 11:35 am #

    Several Jewish friends tell me that when they were young, they were taught that Israel was a “land without people for a people without a land.” It was, of course, a lie, but it was very effective propaganda. They understand now that this was untrue.

    Israel’s position vis a vis the Palestinians [a people under occupation for decades] is becoming so indefensible that their propagandists such as Krauthammer are reduced to saying things like, “Rarely does international politics present a moment of such moral clarity.” I actually think he is right but not in the way he thinks he is!

    I heard an Israeli spokesman on NPR say the other day [in reference to the bombing at the UN school] that it was unclear who did it, but

    Israel lost me when they murdered those boys on the beach. Stopping the building of illegal settlements in an effort to steal more land [AKA creating facts on the ground] would be a good start in moving toward regaining a bit of moral clarify.

    • WSHancock1864 July 28, 2014 at 11:49 am #

      “Exceptional people” don’t require moral clarity.

      Plus, the “land without people” was EXACTLY the same Big Lie the Afrikaeners told to justify THEIR atrocities and Apartheid State.

      It is no crime to fall for sophisticated propoganda, particularly if one is wholly shut off from any competing narrative.

      As a child, I used to wonder why such an “enlightened advanced nation” such as Israel used to consistently ally with the “barbarous Nazi-esque evil” of Apartheid South Africa.

      Like your friends, I now understand. It was because both nations are the same, and I DON’T mean they were/are both enlightened and advanced.

      • Janos Skorenzy July 28, 2014 at 2:26 pm #

        Many of the Bantu groups were just coming south as the Boers moved north. So they have no greater claim to South Africa than the Whites do. There were other people already there – the Bushmen and the Hottentots. Needless to say, the Bantus didn’t treat them very well either.

        After Whites created a truly prosperous society, Blacks from all over Africa left their failed states to get in. You think they have more claim as South Africans than the founding Race – the White Race?

    • oldnurse July 28, 2014 at 12:41 pm #

      To finish my above thought that got dropped:

      I heard an Israeli spokesman on NPR regarding the bombing at the UN school. He said he wasn’t sure who did it, but no matter who did it, IT WASN’T ISRAEL’S FAULT!!! Victimology perfected.

    • sharonsj July 29, 2014 at 4:59 pm #

      “A land without people for a people without a land.” Tell me how this is a lie? The lands of Israel, Judea and Samaria were the lands of the ancient Hebrews; Jerusalem was their capital. The Babylonians and the Romans conquered the area and forced out much of the Jewish population (but not all; there still has been a continuous Jewish presence for millennia). Many Jews ended up in the Levant and then Europe. In Europe they were slaughtered by the Nazis– and in the Levant and in other Muslim lands they were forced out and their property taken.

      If you are referring to “a land without people,” here is something from a Harvard Israel Review essay, “The Myth of Jewish Colonialism”: “For a number of reasons, both political and environmental, the Arab population of Palestine had been in a constant state of flux for much of the region’s history…[and] began to blossom only after the beginning of Jewish immigration and the subsequent improvements in economic conditions, infrastructure, and agricultural techniques. The idea of [Arab] ‘uninterrupted settlement …rooted in its soil,’ is thus inconsistent with history. It was put forward primarily in an attempt to delegitimize Jewish immigration….

      “From the beginning, it was Arab intolerance of the Jewish presence that caused the widespread opposition to Israel, an intolerance that resulted in the war of 1948. Jews, of course, had not chosen arbitrarily to immigrate to this area of the world. Moreover, they did so legally and with positive effects. As evidenced by the massive growth in population, the improvement of agriculture, and increased wages, the claim against Jewish return to Palestine was not pragmatic but ideological. The idea of a Jewish State as such was, from the beginning, anathema to the Arabs living there, and they sought to discredit and defeat it by any means possible. It is in this context that the birth of the Arab-Israeli conflict must be considered.”

  17. Greg Knepp July 28, 2014 at 11:42 am #

    “The particulars of the Hamas arsenal embedded among the civilian population are so firmly established…”

    Maybe. But then the Palestinians have no real ‘military’ do they? No airbases, forts, fleets, pentagon – none of that. How does one delineate the military from the civilian under the dismal conditions endured by this beleaguered people? Even the term ‘asymmetrical warfare’ would be a euphemism when applied to their hopeless struggle.

    Surely you can’t believe that the Palestinians have been treated with anything resembling fairness over the decades.

  18. gtuner July 28, 2014 at 11:47 am #

    Jim I think I get why “this simple equation is not understood by world opinion” after reading some comments here. What we have is a Middle East version of “the border crossed us” crowd you filleted in your “Hard Choices?” post of June 23, 2014.

    They would do well to review your dissection there of the propaganda “by which illegal immigrants are called ‘undocumented,’ as if some unjust bureaucratic mistake was made in their journey across the border and to blame them for it amounts to persecution. It is really too obvious to belabor, except to say that the cumulative effect of such programmatic lying, day after day, will eventually discredit the basic principles of social justice, if it hasn’t already.”)

    Thanks for all you do.

  19. James Howard Kunstler July 28, 2014 at 11:50 am #

    I am deleting WS Hancock’s comment because it is idiotic and reflects poorly on this blog.

    • WSHancock1864 July 28, 2014 at 12:03 pm #

      Translation: It makes you uncomfortable as your defense of collective punishment and the murder of innocents is untenable.

      You really have jumped the shark.

  20. CoalMineCanary July 28, 2014 at 11:56 am #

    Great link, uslabor- thanks!

    Another informative article re: Israel’s “talking points”:


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  21. AKlein July 28, 2014 at 12:02 pm #

    Well, we’ve got JHK’s response to the criticism he received last week for his opinion on the Israeli-Palestinian potlatch. Which is – more of the same. It’s his blog so he gets to set the topic. Fair enough. Perhaps JHK feels compelled to do his part to flush out anti-semites. For G-d’s sake, if that be true, to what useful end? What’s the use of cataloging the Judeophobes?

    Regarding Israel-Palestine, I want to bring up two points for everybody’s consideration. 1) Let’s not forget that for the most part it’s the innocents who are being killed and maimed, both physically and psychically. 2) Just exactly what does it mean for a nation to have a “right to exist”? I ask this whether it be Israel or Palestine, or, for that matter, any nation. Who are the biggest beneficiaries of this vaunted “right to exist?” Well, my educated guess is that it is not the average citizen of a nation. The big beneficiaries are the elites of the nation, not the average citizens. Who makes the biggest deal out of the “right to exist?” The elites. Why? Because having your own nation is rather like owning your own bank; it affords a preferential position (but of course only to the elites.) Such as, the ability to issue one’s own currency, the ability to kill with out its being a crime, the ability to set the laws in such a way as to advantage oneself. There are all sorts of benefits that inure to a nation that would be illegal for the average citizen. The point that bothers me is that the concept of a nation’s “right to exist” is raised as a clear cut and reasonable concept without critical evaluation as to its meaning in practice. And I don’t just mean that as it relates to Israel but to all nations. Let me boil this issue down to the simplest terms; what does it mean for a group of people, residents, to declare themselves a nation?

    • Greg Knepp July 28, 2014 at 12:16 pm #

      “They can declare any damn thing they want – just not on my turf!”

      I’m assuming that this might be the basic Palestinian man-on-the-street reply to you’re overall thesis.

    • Karah July 28, 2014 at 12:47 pm #

      that is why democracy has not worked “over there…over there….see the bombs burning bright over there….”

      people exist, not nations. maybe obama can be the new reagan by saying to israel, bring down that wall!

      let things play out like they have in former yugoslav and ussr.
      then you would have some basis in reality for your fears of entire groups bein wiped out.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 28, 2014 at 2:33 pm #

      You are right: under our current system, a nation is just an ATM for its elite. That’s why our current system must be overthrown. Real Nations are about one people and culture. The Zionists understood this but weren’t able to get all the Arabs out – thus sealing the fate of Israel.

      Are you really sad that Whites conquered North America? The American Revolution is secondary to the conquest of the Indians in order to secure this land for Western Culture and the White Race.

      • Karah July 29, 2014 at 6:20 am #

        i believe advancement in travel speeds and unexpected plagues did most of the “conquering” of the western hemisphere.

        it is not morally correct to lump people together regarding their personal desires based on color or culture. a lot of “whites” are here because of religious persecution and not just imperialism.
        we know why blacks are here and why they never fell for the “return to their homeland” propaganda proposed by some leaders. blacks were and are as much of an enemy as whites.

        when will someone write a book entitled ” a thousand shades of melanin”?

  22. rollie July 28, 2014 at 12:10 pm #

    I don’t care. Any knowledge of what’s happening that far away across the globe is a luxury of a hyped-up petroleum-addled world, and giving too much of a shit one way or the other about it is nothing more than a vain pastime/hobby, unless you have some power or decision-making authority in the matter — which NOBODY here does, I guarantee, and I also guarantee that no one with that authority gives a shit what any of us think. Have a nice day!

    • Karah July 28, 2014 at 12:30 pm #

      you will not be having a nice day, rollie, when the effects of wars in far flung states reach your blissfully ignorant utopia. they do and will effect your way of life even though you may not care about anyone else but yourself.

      the decisions the leaders go with are judgements used to justify similar actions and intentions to their own subjects not currently in desperate straits. in other words, universal laws and doctrines are being decreed and observed by civilization as we know it. thus, we have the usa sending trillions of dollars abroad. how can this fact not escape your notice or the thousand other little annoyances about our current arrangement of things as jhk points out several times throughout his website.

      if you do not care and find no use in understanding it, why are you here?

      • rollie July 28, 2014 at 12:51 pm #

        I will not be having a nice day, regardless. None of us will. That was sarcasm. My ignorant utopia, HA HA HA good one. Given the fact that my own country is already a fascist state, full of cowards typing into their little computers, and that said country’s economic and (for millions of people) literal death knell could come from any number of directions, why should I care which direction, or pretend I can do anything about it? Meanwhile all the sanctimonious whining on here from both sides is really pathetic. Yes yes, duly noted, the Supreme Being has noted your moral purity on the matter and will take than into account while bringing the scythe down.

        • Karah July 28, 2014 at 10:04 pm #

          wrong! I am having a nice day because…

          i, like you, am not directly involved in the conflicts of nation states. i do not fear getting bombed in a public or private place anytime soon.

          i, like you, have a choice what to take into my brain, to disregard the sanctimonious.

          i, like you, have a sense of humor and when god loses his sense of humor he will have taken note of those who do not act on their righteous convictions while sitting around enjoying his work. kunstler is not a coward and that is why i like his writings.

          i am, unlike you, aware of the directions of immediate danger in order to do something about it. yes, anxiety is not healthy, but we should have a measure of fear of the impending changes in ALL of our circumstances. for one, we are all growing older…what are you doing about that? eating healthy? drinking more?
          your cost of living will go up. what are you planning for that? work more? live off the state or another person?

          • hillwalker July 29, 2014 at 7:59 am #

            we all live off the state or another person, as the state is persons, ruled over by persons, blah blah blah. We do not exist wholly absent ‘the state’.

          • hillwalker July 29, 2014 at 8:04 am #

            Sorry, I posted that somehow before editing.

            My overall point being, that the well practiced stunt of making accusations that folks ‘live off the state and other people’ by implication stating that others are parasites, and therefore we are perfect beings is all bullshit and I expect that you know that. Who exactly benefits from this point of view anyway?


            Moving along,
            Do you honestly believe that the folks who are actually directly involved in making real decisions viz a viz the ‘hamas-israel conflict’ care what you or I actually think? This is a real question, not rhetorical. Fwiw, I don’t think they care what I think at all.

          • Karah July 29, 2014 at 9:24 am #

            point taken.

            yet, the usa and its individual citizens have been lead to believe that their opinions matter on a world scale when taken en masse. the world’s opinion on hamas/israel and anything else would include us. so, the story goes that elections decide what leaders do here and abroad. if rollie’s opinion represents 25,000 other americans of various persuasions…why is there so must invested over there?

            according to jhks imagination, the state as we have known it for 200 years will cease and desist. news of anything abroad will not be transmitted effectively nor will their be relief from the physical hardships of daily living. that will act as a blank slate for anyone who comes along with any kind of narrative about how things are going in the world. if you are hungry for anything like news of freedom from ignorance or slavery, what would you do?

            jhk also raises the points that if you do not make preparations now preparations will be made for you and that is what most describe as fascism, including rollie.

    • Karah July 28, 2014 at 12:36 pm #

      oh…and another thing…news travelling the world is not a result of petroleum…we have had that forever it just took longer to travel.

      i do get your point and even sympathize with the frustrations many readers have with the endless repetitive bombardments of bad news with very little in the way of reasonable discussion about them, only one emotional outcry after another.

      • AKlein July 28, 2014 at 1:08 pm #

        Karah, Rollie has not answered your very relevant question. Which is, “if you do not care and find no use in understanding it, why are you here?” I won’t speculate as to his underlying motivation since I do not wish to precipitate further acrimony which seems likely to follow.

        • Karah July 28, 2014 at 10:19 pm #

          because its mainly rhetorical and he knows that.

          i wrote a reply to him because i understand his tone and attempt at humor.

          however, i think the majority of commenters are concerned about peace and security and know how much our backgrounds and lot in life inform our world view. its irritating when a consensus can not be formed until we are all faced with do or die.

          we can laugh at the absurdity of things but we also have to be balanced as to how history has played out in each swing of the pendulum. i, for one, believe that cycle will end sooner rather than later because all life on earth will be wiped out because of mismanagement of resources due to the overpopulation of megatropolises, immorality and wars.

  23. AKlein July 28, 2014 at 12:22 pm #

    Rollie’s position on the matter brings to mind the Banality of Evil. What’s going on there behind those fences at Sachsenhausen? It’s smart not to ask or to even wonder. Those in charge won’t care about your opinion, or worse, they will care and who knows what can happen. Consequently, it’s smart to be willfully ignorant. Brilliant.

    • rollie July 28, 2014 at 12:28 pm #

      OK so fix it then.

    • rollie July 28, 2014 at 12:31 pm #

      Also in your half-assed Godwin’s Law-Abiding analogy, who are the Nazis? And how is a country 12 time zones away equivalent to a concentration camp in my backyard? You’re proving my point: pay attention to what’s happening in YOUR OWN sphere of influence.

    • rollie July 28, 2014 at 12:33 pm #

      Or go ahead and have a coronary over it. Either way I’m sure your moral rectitude and position on the matter will be quite ineffectual and noticed by no one.

    • Therian July 30, 2014 at 6:45 am #

      All this philosophical hand-waving about Israel/Gaza is really a demo of how the global media conglomerates dominate your consciousness because they dominate the clock. Who really believes these conflicts are philosophical at their base? If the conflicts were rooted in ideology then Israel would bomb Saudi Arabia since those are the most vehement Jew-haters in the world. Conflicts anywhere on the globe have become abstractions, like video games, because we are Mandarins who can sit back and eat pork rinds on our couches while CNN gives the “halftime score”.

      This “think globally” mentality is goofy leftist spew. For God’s sake we live in a country with 1875 plumbing, electrical, and rail system but we’re supposed to pay attention to Crimea and Gaza. Sixteen percent of Americans are on food stamps for God’s sake. Our family and government financial internals are being glossed over in Dick Cheney “Deficits Don’t Matter” fashion.

      Turn the frigging TVs off people!! What matters is what’s happening in your own back yard so don’t sit like a narcotized pigeon in front of the boob tube watching the furrow-browed news commentators whose job is to make you care about what happens to a Ukrainian. While our own “Rome” is burning we’re watching all manner of global conflagrations in the same way we watch the Super Bowl.

  24. Javamtn July 28, 2014 at 12:54 pm #

    Excellent post…If only this and your previous articles were published in the mainstream media, which has currently gone delusional.

  25. piltdownman July 28, 2014 at 12:59 pm #

    Naomi Klein’s quote is inspired. As the woman who wrote “Shock Doctrine,” she well understands the nature of using a devastating event, be it 9/11 or the Holocaust, as a way to manipulate peoples and nations.

    Israel and the Jews of the world have allowed themselves to be completely defined by this one horrendous event, and like individual victims of crime or violence, they need to find a peaceable way to move on.

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    • S M Tenneshaw August 20, 2014 at 10:22 pm #

      As do the Palestinians.

  26. Karah July 28, 2014 at 1:08 pm #

    i would like to see more discussion about what is like to fly commercial jets and the toll terrorism has taken in that industry, not to mention the volatile weather.

    it seems to me intra-national as well as international travel is increasingly becoming an elite activity and extremely dangerous. most people can barely afford driving and cruise ships. if society becomes more isolationist due to political instabilities along with increased fuel costs….what will that mean for our way of life?

    what will you do if you can not get certain products delivered to your area? how often do you use amazon in the last six months or Fedex?
    how do you feel about having your privacy invaded because you want to board a plane but are basically ignored in any other conveyance!

    • AKlein July 28, 2014 at 1:24 pm #

      Our “way of life” is going the way of the dodo, regardless of Dick Cheney’s assertion that it is “non-negotiable.” It seems that the Oil Goddess is in the process of abandoning us, so her temples will be abandoned and crumble. How do I feel about the invasion of privacy on transport – especially aircraft? We are getting a small tasting of what it’s like to be in a war zone. It could be (and maybe will be) worse.

    • Beryl of Oyl July 28, 2014 at 1:28 pm #

      Interesting questions. There’s a story around about Boy Scouts in a confrontation with a deranged agent at our Northern border. That one matters more than the other one?
      I wonder about all the tax money we spend on making sure those few people with the means to fly are ‘safe’, while in the meantime we see people who can’t afford cars killed by them crossing the street, with increasing frequency.
      I find myself using Amazon because even though I live in a ‘walkable’ city, the stores are not there to walk to, or as Mr. Kunstler pointed out in a previous post, the stores all carry the same things.

      • Karah July 28, 2014 at 9:50 pm #

        it was funny to read that dollar general stores were taking over family dollar stores…

        do americans really believe the stores are providing different choices?! no! all the stuff comes from the same suppliers! dollar general happened to be bigger and better managed (headquartered in carolina).

        the illusion of choice and competition is gone now.

        • Karah July 29, 2014 at 8:48 am #

          correction dollar tree not general dollar and they are based in virginia south of carolina…

        • Karah July 30, 2014 at 3:20 pm #

          aaaand…if anyone noticed…officemax and office depot merged.

          another example of illusion of choice.

          whats next…um…walgreens and walmart?

          bealls and big lots?

          home depot and lowes!!

          kohls and jc penney?

          jc penny and sears!

  27. s_gato July 28, 2014 at 1:21 pm #

    In general I do like your posts. Except, when your posts relate to Israel, suddenly, as many Jews in this world, your impartiality gets blinded by Zionism.

    You say the following incorrect statements

    a) Hamas shields itself with civilians.

    Incorrect, Hamas is embedded among civilians in a concentration camp of approximately 40 by 14 kilometers where more than one million Palestinians live. There is no open field for Hamas to fight Israel. Such a claim, as false as it is, is just a repetition of the Israeli/Zionist propaganda which every day is looking more and more like something that Goebels would admire.

    b) You claim that Israel is defending itself. However, Israel fired the first shots (in 1967) and is an occupying force. The Palestinians, through Hamas are asserting their legitimate right to resist the occupation. I am not a supporter of Hamas. I don’t like fundamentalists of any kind but I recognize that an occupier especially one as brutal as the Israelis must be resisted.

    c) You imply that Hamas and Palestinians do not love their children and that they are a culture of death. This is preposterous!!! Most people in all societies, including the Palestinian the Palestinian ones.

    The fact, that some people in that part of the world are driven to commit atrocities and suicide bombings is a prove of the social decomposition and inhumane living conditions prevalent in that part of the world. Conditions to which Israel through the occupation, and we, the United States, with our interventions and support to Israel have helped to create.

    d) You bring back the horrors of 1939 as a justification of the actions of Israel. Those horrors stopped in 1945 and you, and all the Zionists of this world, who do not have a monopoly of suffering, should stop using such horrors of the past to justify committing horrors in the present.

    e) Finally, the much hated Hamas, is a creation of the State of Israel as an strategy to oppose the more secular and therefore less crazy Palestinian Liberation Organization. The one least interested in crushing Hamas because crushing it would leave the PLO as a credible negotiating partner to end the occupation.

    Please go back to writing about energy, oil and economics where you are more impartial and stop becoming just another mouthpiece of the mainstream Zionist propaganda. The world has stopped believing it.


    • “c) You imply that Hamas and Palestinians do not love their children and that they are a culture of death. This is preposterous!!! Most people in all societies, including the Palestinian the Palestinian ones.”


      “Pools of blood lay on the ground in the Beach refugee camp garden in northern Gaza after it was hit by a huge explosion.”

      “We came out of the mosque when I saw the children playing with their toy guns. Seconds later a missile landed,” said Munther Al-Derbi, a resident of the camp.”

      “May God punish … Netanyahu,” he said.”

      But God punished the kids, didn’t he? What were they playing, but Arabs vs. Jews.

      Not a culture of death? Of course it is! They teach their kids death to Israel. They simulate killing Israelis.

      If there is anything to be determined, on the balance, it is that if there is a God he loves the Jews and hates the Palestinians. Ipso facto.

      As for what happened in 1967? Every culture’s task is to overcome the previous generation’s pile of problems and move forward. That means burying the preeminent generation’s baggage. Of course that provokes existential fear in any generation about being seen as irrelevant. So they zealously set about corrupting their kid’s minds with whatever prejudices are necessary to make sure their lives are validations of the previous generation’s lives.

      The kids have my sympathy but who is holding their parents responsible?

  28. ozone July 28, 2014 at 1:23 pm #

    Well, I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinions (so far). They are also entitled to the consequences of collective punishments and killings, for whatever pressing national cohesion they might care to cite.

    To be boringly repetitive, the “Israelis” blew their chance at real greatness by partition. If they’d included the inhabitants of the land they’d been bequeathed by gawd in their forward-looking attempt at building a modern nation, they could have mitigated rabid religion-ism by all parties concerned. (In case you haven’t noticed, those who are bereft of hope, opportunity and the basics of living, tend to place all their woes upon the doorstep of whichever god/gods they feel will be the most concerned about their troubles and step right up to alleviate them.)

    In turn, the benefits of a ‘modern state’ would have accrued to all, thus binding them closer by contributions to the commonweal.

    Sorry, too late now — too much blood has flowed under that bridge, and if we look to the parts of the blackboard of history left un-erased by janitors for the winners, revenge is the very strongest of human emotions. Doubt that at your extreme peril. (I would point out that most of the political ‘leaders’ in this world DO doubt this by dint of their overarching hubris, and vengeance in some form or another will come to them as an incredible surprise.)

    Solutions? Phaugh! I certainly don’t have any. This cycle of madness has been engaged in full knowledge of its’ outcomes. It will go on until it depoplulates or poisons enough for those involved to recognize that the numbers are getting thin on the ground…. maybe too thin for rebound/continuation. Only then do mouthings about “respect for life” return, and concessions/accommodations made.

    Just wait until this all gets down to the absolute nitty-gritty of water, then the unabashed (and eminently excusable) brutality of keeping ones’ tribe alive at the expense of another will really commence. Beware of where your god tells you to place your bets. All gods and demons like a good laugh now and again and are not averse to letting stupid humans make stupid choices for their entertainment.

    • Javamtn July 28, 2014 at 2:02 pm #

      ” the “Israelis” blew their chance at real greatness by partition. If they’d included the inhabitants of the land they’d been bequeathed by gawd in their forward-looking attempt at building a modern nation, they could have mitigated rabid religion-ism by all parties concerned”

      So the Israeli’s should have included the native ‘inhabitants’ (the actual demographics of which is open to debate) while being attacked by them? Does the ‘Arab revolt’ and the Nazi collaborator ‘Grand Mufti of Jerusalem’ Haj Amin al-Husseini ring any bells?

      Meanwhile, how did the current Arab population in Israel manage to gain citizenship rights in that country if Israel had not ‘included’ them?

      • ozone July 28, 2014 at 2:32 pm #

        Didn’t you get the memo? (Or perhaps it was filed under: Useless and Tangential Information.)

        “The spreading of goodies to all and sundry doth nicely pour a calming oil upon troubled waters.” — The Cynical (but Successful) Diplomat

        Here’s another memo from CD:

        “There’s three ways of conducting any transaction.
        1. Fair dealing
        2. Fraud
        3. Theft

        Which of these is employed ensures fairly consistent and predictable eventual effects.”

        Missed that one as well?

        • Javamtn July 28, 2014 at 3:54 pm #

          The spreading of goodies? Have you looked at a world map recently? Land-wise, the Arabs are doing quite nicely, thank you very much.

          Theft, Fraud? Guess you missed the memo re Arabs selling land to Jews in the Palestine territory during the Ottoman and Mandate periods.

          And what about the expulsion from Arab and North African countries of over a million ‘dhimmi’ Jews?…refugees all, whose people had actually resided in those lands for centuries, their land and material wealth confiscated with no offer of reparations. Not being professional refugees, however, they moved on long ago…

          ‘Wordsmithing’ is fun, but try not to be dismissive of the facts…

          • ozone July 28, 2014 at 6:28 pm #

            …And thusly do you make my point!

            Somebody who gets screwed hard doesn’t forget.
            Now don’t forget it…

      • Janos Skorenzy July 28, 2014 at 2:48 pm #

        Some of the Zionists were really socialist idealists and wanted peace with the Arabs. But most were hard core nationalists who had no doubts or qualms about what they wanted. That these two groups were united is a sad statement on the mind’s capacity to delude itself. Obviously there was no chance for peace given the number of Jews who were streaming in. The Idealists should have known that from the beginning.

  29. Beryl of Oyl July 28, 2014 at 1:35 pm #

    I think that some find it convenient to keep angry Muslims focussed on Israel. It serves to distract them while they have their stuff taken.

  30. toktomi July 28, 2014 at 1:35 pm #

    James, you are on the verge of undoing a lifetime of hard work.

    Don’t allow this one issue to define you.

    This is a matter for sharing with friends only.

    We are not your friends. We’re more like fans.

    And we like all [most] of your other stuff.

    So, it might be time to throw on a pair of those big girl panties and get back to the party.


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    • Don July 28, 2014 at 1:56 pm #

      I agree. I am a fan also and his take on the Israel issue is very biased and makes me question his judgement. Perhaps James should back off on this topic like you are suggesting. His fan base is mostly liberal types which are aghast at what Israel is doing. James is a great writer and social critic, and on most topics I am in agreement, but some people will end up being former fans because of his strongly pro-Israel postings.

      • shabbaranks July 28, 2014 at 2:26 pm #

        I disagree. Mr. Kunstler’s remarks are spot on. Among Hamas’s goals is the destruction of Israel since Hamas does not recognize Israel as a state. Mr. Meshaal, the leader of Hamas, said as much last week while he was in Qatar looking for more financial assistance for his organization.

        Hamas’s position on Israel is that the Palestinians will vote on whether or not to recognize Israel as soon as the “occupation” has ended. You can read “occupation” here to mean that Hamas doesn’t recognize the United Nation’s creation of the state of Israel. To Hamas, the 1967 borders of Israel are irrelevant. They want the whole ball of wax back, from north to south, east to west. They will never get it and no doubt this eats them up every minute of every day.

        I am a registered Democrat and an avid follower of the peak oil narrative. Jim Kunstler’s piece today is right on the mark.

        • Janos Skorenzy July 28, 2014 at 2:52 pm #

          And some Israelis believe God gave the Jews all the land between the Nile and Euphrates. That’s a real plan for peace, eh?

          • shabbaranks July 28, 2014 at 5:12 pm #

            Janos, there was a plan for peace in that region called the Oslo Accords, among others. It was an ongoing set of agreements and negotiations to fulfill UN resolutions 242 and 338. I wouldn’t expect overnight peace in the region regardless of what happens in the most recent fighting.

            The view you describe of Israel extending from the Nile to the Euphrates is not the official view of the government of Israel. However, the leadership of Hamas, which is the duly elected government of the Gaza Palestinians since 2006, has been largely insistent that Israel must permit a referendum of the Palestinian people and at that point, if the Palestinians permit the Israelis to live in Israel, then Hamas would accept that outcome, but only under the rule of an Islamic state. For obvious reasons, Israel’s government has rejected this canard.

            Hamas clearly believes that over time, they will have the strength to defeat Israel. So far, they are wrong.

    • routersurfer July 28, 2014 at 2:19 pm #

      Like all of us Jim should write what he wants. All of us can have our own place in the Sun. Go Daddy does hosting.

    • James Howard Kunstler July 28, 2014 at 3:09 pm #


      Go fuck yourself toktami.

      • WSHancock1864 July 28, 2014 at 4:38 pm #

        Struck a nerve, did he?

        It’s nothing less than you deserve, for that is exactly what you are doing.

        Go ahead, diminish your credibility some more.

        Soon, the only devotees remaining will be three guys from the Hasbara War Room using eighteen handles.

        Truth hurts, doesn’t it? No matter how many comments you delete, that doesn’t change.

        • Therian July 30, 2014 at 6:56 am #

          This is a peak oil blog, ostensibly. Why the guy running the blog has suddenly decided to make a 120 degree turn from his normal commentary to comment on a skirmish between an oil barren state (Israel) and a homeless tribe (the Palestinians) is beyond my ken!? Like all skirmishes, vicious resource squabbling underlies a lot of the fighting while ideology is the “cover story”. Israel is violating the Oslo II accords on water usage. And we know how useless water is, don’t we?

          • WW July 30, 2014 at 4:17 pm #

            Actually its JHKs blog and he can write about WTF he likes. Noone makes you read it!

  31. routersurfer July 28, 2014 at 1:49 pm #

    Howdy, and welcome to the ” Holy Land. ” Thanks for saying what many of us feel. If people think the middle east is a joy now hold on the next 100 years are going to be a hoot. As far as people being removed from homes….would that be the Roman Legion removing people after the second Bar revolt or the screwed up plan out of Balfour ? Folks this is a resource war. Food water and a side order of ” Values.” Most maps in this world at this time are the product of Euro trash & American colonialism. God Bless Capitalism and our bankers.

  32. Why are they so unhappy when in Allah-Valhalla they get rivers of milk and honey, virgin vagina plundering (sans clitoris), and get to hang out all day with Allahu Akhbar?

    Screw ’em. This atheist isn’t a friend. They’re a mongrel bunch of old world savages with way too much real estate on Planet Earth. If they all disappeared tomorrow I wouldn’t feel one drop of sympathy.

    The defenders of the Palestinian cause are cheering on a bunch of sore losers. They had their various chances to drive the people of the Book into the sea, and they lost, because they are weak, and stupid. Too bad, loser!

    The eternal ‘intifada’ is nothing but the confused idiocy of a cult that can’t fathom why their deity hasn’t answered their prayers. Its because he doesn’t exist! Reality doesn’t intrude when your forehead is pressed to the ground, apparently.

    I for one believe the incessant focus since 2001 on all things Islam is merely because the US people and media can’t honestly look at any of their own problems, largely because the dominant Jesus cult is incapable of any rational self-analysis outside the doctrines and dogmas that regulate its national imagination.

    The sympathy for Palestinians is merely a form of Christian apologia. We shouldn’t have any dog in this fight; but since cults are obsessed with their status and relationship to other cults, they are mesmerized by a contemporary example of the schisms inherent in their hokum books and childish fantasies. They think its profoundly important; therefore we should too!

    No opportunity to lecture us all about their universal moral codes is missed by these hacks. K-Dog, begone!

    • Janos Skorenzy July 28, 2014 at 2:57 pm #

      The Jews encouraged mass Muslim immigration into Europe in order to weaken Western Culture. The weaker we are, the stronger they are. But the French Military will be majority Muslim in another generation – and they have nuclear weapons.

      Yes, the Jew are smart, but are they wise? They needed us yet they did everything they could to bring us down. They have sown the Wind and will reap the Whirlwind.

      • Javamtn July 28, 2014 at 4:13 pm #


      • S M Tenneshaw August 20, 2014 at 10:32 pm #

        Ain’t enuf joooos in Yurp to encourage a flea market let alone encourage “mass Muslim immigration.” But hey, you knew that.

        Meet the Old Right, same as the new left.

    • Karah July 28, 2014 at 9:28 pm #

      “I for one believe the incessant focus since 2001 on all things Islam is merely because the US people and media can’t honestly look at any of their own problems, largely because the dominant Jesus cult is incapable of any rational self-analysis outside the doctrines and dogmas that regulate its national imagination.”


  33. entropy July 28, 2014 at 2:04 pm #

    I must be in the Twilight Zone. This really makes me rethink JHK and his past work. The first yellow flag was when he shared his diet and medical misadventures… How can someone so bright be so stupid? Well, now THIS? If JHK is so clueless on why the issue of Gaza and the massacre of its ultra young population (average age 17, median is even lower) touches nerves here, domestically, it’s because the U.S. unilaterally supports it! We’ve got blood on our goddamned hands!!!!

    Really saddened to see someone I respected fall from grace like this. I said it last week, but really, senility is setting in. All good things must come to an end, and that includes empathy and cognitive function! I always figured his Monday column was something he committed to in an attempt slow down inevitable cognitive decline as a result of aging and/or poor diet. You know, when doctors recommend seniors do a crossword or word search puzzle each day.

    THis is a massacre of babies, children, and young adults. Our outrage is about human decency.

    Before you read any more crap by the likes of CNN or JHK’s CFN, be sure you’ve read the Israel Project’s “2009 Global Language Dictionary”. It was leaked to Newsweek a few years back and has been widely disseminated. It’s a repulsive PR guide that the Israelis use when defending its ethnic cleansing, infanticide, racist policy, and continued theft of land.

    • K-Dog July 28, 2014 at 4:21 pm #

      Peace demands the most heroic labor and the most difficult sacrifice. It demands greater heroism than war. It demands greater fidelity to the truth and a much more perfect purity of conscience. – Thomas Merton

      You need a link.


      • ZrCrypDiK July 29, 2014 at 9:44 pm #

        Pity would be no more, if WE did not make somebody poor.

        You both seem to be missing the point. Israel is taking out Gaza infrastructure (schools/hospitals/power plants). You really think Hamas had human shields over those schools, hospitals, or power plants?!…

        Hamas had about 1,000 guys calling the shots, while MILLIONS took the *BRUNT* Literally, 3-sigma…

        But hey – them Jews “call ahead” (or so they’ve claimed, for weeks on end – P2C nailed it with the humor bit: too funny to be true?)…

        And mercy would NO MORE be, if ALL were as happy as we (Innocense/Experience)

    • K-Dog July 28, 2014 at 4:43 pm #

      Another, this one had the PDF but the link to it is broken. But that’s not surprising. There are people paid full time to break such links.


    • “This really makes me rethink JHK and his past work.”

      What does one have to do with the other? Nothing.

      Deep down inside you are unconsciously searching for the perfect Jesus figure, immune from hypocrisy, perfect in all ways, in which to grant the supreme gift of your worship and adulation.

      In short you are a product of standard Western judeo-christian programming. You have no idea how to evaluate ideas separate from the person presenting them, relative to the mythical standard of Jesus Christ.

      You, me, we’re all sinners, all imperfect right? None know anything? Can’t be sure of anything? Universe big mystery? Am I getting any hits here?

      • lumbricina July 28, 2014 at 7:15 pm #

        You make some good points Little Debbie Snack Pack. James is a good person I believe, and takes time to engage the public on issues in this format. . He should be able to express his opinion.

        Kudos James for your work.

  34. Janos Skorenzy July 28, 2014 at 2:07 pm #

    The Jewish Nation (which existed before the founding of Israel) declared war on Germany years before the outbreak of World War Two. People are taught about the Nazi boycott of Jewish shops but they aren’t taught about why it was done, namely the boycott of German goods abroad. Funny, it’s almost like our education is slanted or something.


    • desertflower July 28, 2014 at 3:04 pm #

      better not start on that line…
      it will lead to many very inconveniant and much hated facts and truths,
      and you might find yourself in a hell of trouble before you know it…
      Truth, honesty and DECENCY (a word completely erased these days from the vocabulary of most people) are dangerous subjects to talk about….
      might even shorten your life-span considerably, on occasion…
      Best to you

  35. GBoyd July 28, 2014 at 2:19 pm #

    Two points. 1) Most Westerners see the Israel-Palestine conflict through either a “post Holocaust” lens, or a “post colonial” lens. The reference experience for Israelis and most Americans is the former; for Europeans, who were too long in denial about the Holocaust when it was happening, the latter. 2) Amin Maaloof, a Lebanese-French historian of the Crusades, concludes his book “The Crusades through Arab Eyes” with the point that the Arabs were led competently, over the centuries, only by either Kurds or Turks.
    JHK is right that the distribution/allocation of oil wealth is an issue in the region, but it is overlaid by social and sectarian divisions, in turn exacerbated by alternative energy supplies from other parts of the world, plus fuel substitution, conservation, etc. People can thank shale energy, aka hydrofracking, for the fact that the current turmoil has not produced $200/bbl oil and forced us to re-land the Marines in the Persian Gulf.

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  36. contrahend July 28, 2014 at 2:29 pm #

    Meanwhile, how did the current Arab population in Israel manage to gain citizenship rights in that country if Israel had not ‘included’ them?

    Question was asked two posts back – with no answer.

    Yes, it’s a horrific tragedy, the killing of Palestinians and Jews.

    It started in response to rocket attacks.

    Yes, the Palestinians have nowhere to turn, little employment, and a bleak future at best.

    I get both sides.

    When you’re being shot at with intent to kill, you have to fire back. I’ll wager the majority of Jews and Palestinians are fairly reasonable people.

    By definition, the psychos set the agenda.


  37. rckrueger July 28, 2014 at 2:39 pm #

    Why is it that when anyone even discusses this topic, it has to degenerate into name calling people “Zionists” or “self-hating Jews”. Let’s stick to the facts. Hamas has lobbed over 4000 rockets since 2001 from the Gaza strip into Israel. Imagine for a moment if Cuba shot 4000 rockets into Miami – what would the US do? I cannot say with certainty, but I would suggest that even a pacifist leaning president such as Obama would carpet bomb them back to the Stone Age.

    I don’t want to go into a debate about the whole history between the Israelis and the Palestinians – this is unending and frankly boring, but Hamas started this particular conflict as of the last two weeks with their newly acquired Iranian rockets. What amazes me is that we somehow expect Israel to react differently than virtually any other industrialized nation to this sort of threat. I suspect that it has something to do with a collective expectation that Jews should be victims rather than regular folk defending their country.

    • AKlein July 28, 2014 at 3:11 pm #

      It should not amaze you. Jews are held to a higher standard. This also should not amaze you. That’s what the 10 Commandments are all about; the Jews separated themselves from others largely by subjecting themselves to higher standards. This is intimately connected to the notion of civilization. If Israel is to be genuinely Jewish, it needs to hold itself to a standard higher than that to which the Arabs hold themselves. The fact that this higher standard would “cost” them should be considered the wages of being genuinely superior. Yes, this is arguably unfair. But I ask, doesn’t real adherence to principles always “cost”?

      • Karah July 29, 2014 at 6:49 am #

        zionist has different meanings to people because its being used as a political designation and not just a moral/theocratic designation as it was originally intended to be used in holy scripture.

        “my thoughts/ways are higher than your thoughts/ways” -God

        • Capo Regine July 29, 2014 at 5:59 pm #

          The matter of the meaning of Zionism can be easily resolved via a dictionary. You may think it means green eggs and ham but civilized people do find discourse a lot easier with established meanings. I wonder what ever happened to dictionaries?

          • Karah July 30, 2014 at 4:29 pm #

            if it can be easily resolved than why is there a war over it?

            zionism is the physical establishment of a higher authority based in a holy book (exodus etc.) modern state politics does not recognize holier than thou. so zionism can not exist in the real world as most israelites are interpreting it to be.

            dictionaries are not encyclopedias which show the deeper contexts of a word or title.

    • desertflower July 28, 2014 at 3:14 pm #

      you’re comppletely nuts, man.
      you can in no way compare Israel,Palaestina with Cuba and Miami.
      Where did you get that idea from? Completely ridiculous!!!
      Obama being a pacifist president – what are you smoking ???
      Obviously very strong stuff !!!

      • rckrueger July 28, 2014 at 5:25 pm #

        The comparison is of course hypothetical – obviously Cuba and Palestine are separate issues. The point being that the US would never tolerate missiles being fired into its territory – ever!

        The response would be swift and devastating. If don’t believe me, just ask the Iraqis, the Japanese, the Germans, etc…

  38. rudyspeaks July 28, 2014 at 2:52 pm #

    For the 3rd week in a row, James’ message seems to be “Hey, you kids get off my lawn!” It’s so hard to find incisive thinking on the internet, so I’m sad to watch the intellectual decline that is unarguably on display here. Simple fact: Anyone who starts a conversation about Gaza with a reference to those pathetic rockets is trying desperately to amputate 60-odd years of provocation, and you all know it. It’s called “context’ and croaking back the Hebrew-school mythologies of “they want us dead!” flies in the face of the largest international Muslim and Arab organizations repeatedly affirming Israel’s right to exist within (approx.) pre-1967 borders. There is no excuse for the treatment the Palestinians are receiving and everyone knows it.

    • rckrueger July 28, 2014 at 3:05 pm #

      The problem with the “context” argument is how far back to you go? We can go back 60 years to WWII, or 90 years to WWI – or even further back to Roman invasion of Judea in 50AD. Context aside, this particular skirmish as of the last month was started by Hamas – the rockets have been going in one direction – until of course the Israelis started shooting back.

    • James Howard Kunstler July 28, 2014 at 3:20 pm #

      “Anyone who starts a conversation about Gaza with a reference to those pathetic rockets is trying desperately to amputate 60-odd years of provocation”

      Those “pathetic” Hamas rockets are designed to kill Israeli civilians. It happens that Hamas has poor targeting abilities. You comment is yet another mendacious one. — JHK

      • Capo Regine July 28, 2014 at 6:28 pm #

        Those rockets are indeed pathetic. Do you know anything about them? They are not scuds or katushkas by a long shot. As you correctly point out they lack aim and in addition the “Iron Dome” and Israeli air defense render them ineffective. The rockets are primitive and simple and indeed pathetic and ineffective. Much like going after a Swat Team with a slingshot. These rockets do make for a hell of a pretext. I suppose if an errant bottle rocket (hey it can burn and cause serious injury ya know) lands on your lawn you many feel justified in killing the family that launched this deadly missile–espeically if they were immigrants from some county your do not approve of. youmay well feel

      • rudyspeaks July 28, 2014 at 7:28 pm #

        Perhaps I was unclear. My apologies. Let me be simpler. The effectiveness of the rockets (the word I used was “pathetic”, i.e. hundreds of launches, 1 death… as opposed to Israel’s dozens of launches, hundreds of deaths), but the point (this WASN’T obvious?) was the Time-Frame. Since this has been the MAIN criticism throughout this thread, how are we missing this… (trying to miss this?). It’s a nearly 70 year assault on the people of Palestine. To cite an incident, or series of incidents, that began a mere dozen years ago is an obvious evasion. So! Forget the “pathetic” adjective. I feel it’s fair, but, as it’s not essential, drop it! But frame the current crisis correctly, starting 66 years ago with the Nakba (have I seen a reference yet to that incredible event?) An act of international law-breaking that began the current crisis. This used to be a site where I could expect intelligent discourse. I’m so sad.

        • Capo Regine July 28, 2014 at 7:39 pm #

          Yes, the Palestinians have been getting abused for 70 years–longer under birts and turks. My point was in ference to JHK who seems to indicate that these palestinian rockets are a serious threat–they are not. I am on your side…

          • rudyspeaks July 29, 2014 at 12:19 pm #

            Yes Capo, I realize that (and appreciate it). I was also referencing JHK, not you.

  39. M. Bessette July 28, 2014 at 2:54 pm #

    What seems to go overlooked in this dispute is the commonalties between the two. That is, the more each lays claim to the moral high ground, the further political reconciliation gets lost in a haze of enmity.

    And as for one of the so-called solutions: Why does propaganda for soft eugenicism flow so smoothly from the resource scarcity narrative? Like a crude Marxist trope, at some point this sort of reductionism will come under scrutiny and be revealed for what it is.

  40. bkoala July 28, 2014 at 2:59 pm #

    The long emergency screams incessantly from the Middle East, the fundamental incubator of the three dominant religious disorders. Oxygen added to the theocratic conflagration include Zionism, Tribalism, Nationalism, Racial identity, Hamas, PLO, and the United States of Anxiety. The new world order dictated to us by the colonial and slave holders of the past and present would have us throwing stones and dung at each other as we anoxerically grasp for meaning and resolve to a historical condition. Terrorists functionally liberated Palestine for the Jews to inhabit to the exclusion of other regionally present people. Theocracies rise and and crumble. Nations arise and devolve. The sirens of the long emergency cripple the hearts of those within its sonic booms.

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  41. SW July 28, 2014 at 3:56 pm #

    Perhaps both Israel and Gaza can erect big billboards with MLK’s message:

    “We can live together as brothers or we can perish together as fools.”

  42. Art Myatt July 28, 2014 at 4:19 pm #

    Jim, you are blind/wrong on this issue. My comment is too long for a comment, so i wrote up my own blog post: https://migreenparty.wordpress.com/2014/07/28/no-nation-has-a-right-to-exist-not-even-israel/

    • K-Dog July 28, 2014 at 5:00 pm #

      Most excellent, we had the same Idea and made our own blog posts.

      What you expressed has also been on my mind.

      Aside from the consent of the governed no nation has a right to exist. Palestinians behind the prison walls of their oppressors do not consent to their barbarous oppression and have every right to resist the occupation. Sadly by supporting Zionist genocide America now has more in common with Nazi Germany then it has with the roots of its own American revolution. And that, with the 4th of July not even a month away.

      • Javamtn July 28, 2014 at 6:46 pm #

        The sole oppressors of the Palestinians are their Arab masters who keep them as long-suffering professional refugees.

        Every other population rendered similarly stateless after 2 world wars were resettled elsewhere (including the million or so Jewish refugees expelled from Arab and North African countries after their property was confiscated)… Only the ‘Palestinians’ (whose national identity is a relatively recent invention fabricated by those very same Arab oppressors) remain stateless.

        Furthermore, Gaza is not currently ‘occupied’…except by Hamas, who is sworn to Israels destruction, a covenant they’ve had no problem acting upon since 2005. The blockade, therefore, is justified…and the prison is one of their own making.

        • Capo Regine July 28, 2014 at 8:29 pm #

          How much are you getting paid to peddle State of Israel propaganda? Its straight from the book. Good boy get your 8 scheckels.

          • S M Tenneshaw August 20, 2014 at 10:39 pm #

            David Duke, is that you?

      • Karah July 28, 2014 at 9:34 pm #

        yes, it started when they targeted all muslims and not just the radical criminals.

    • Its thesis, that no nation has a right to exist except at the consent of its people is certainly a truism. But it is an a prioi proposition about a posteriori events. Ergo, the Palestinians believe in it but don’t have the government or land. So they don’t have a right to a nation. But given enough time and enough conflict they can achieve it. It just means subjecting millions of their offspring to total war, a dubious value proposition to those millions of kids.

      The Israelis have possession and title. Thats 9/10ths of the law.

      Your statement:

      “I certainly remember a time when there was a North Vietnam and a South Vietnam. I spent a year in South Vietnam as part of the US Army’s 7/15 Artillery. Neither of these nations had a right to exist. Today, there is only the nation of Vietnam.”

      Is quibbling; the modern state of Vietnam is simply the old state of North Vietnam- Once the south was overrun there was no need for superfluous geographic prefix.

      No one gives a nation a right to exist than that which is defended by those it purports to represent. Its why I always knew Iraq would be a failure, as all other attempts to “maintain borders” in that part of the world. Meanwhile, America’s borders are dissolving and our “Palestinians”- and their helpers- are invading. Soon it will be their land on their terms.

      • Karah July 28, 2014 at 9:37 pm #

        what about north and south korea that came before vietnam and exists after with continuing animosities.

        • My point is the concept that no nation has a right to exist is a truism and not a premise that can be used to prove that the status of nationhood is an essential fiction.

          Both N. and S. Korea’s people had to fight to capture and preserve a right to exist. Today, they continue to fight for it. The north is constantly under pressure from an invasion of Chinese culture and influence. The South has a strong cultural bulwark against such influence that it has built up into an effective immunity. The sense of nation is strong.

          The North’s imposed mandate is a weaker species that will eventually fall and would have a lot sooner without Chinese support. I have no doubt that the South’s culture will, like West Germany, prevail over a united Korean peninsula sooner or later.

          • capt spaulding July 31, 2014 at 9:11 am #

            A similar situation has developed in Ukraine. After the 2nd world war, Ukraine was inundated with Russians, encouraged by the state. It’s the same here, except its hispanics instead of Russians. When there gets to be enough of them, look out.

          • Karah July 31, 2014 at 10:49 am #

            what was interesting to me about the ukraine peaceful takeover of crimea is how confused the ukrainian troops and their leaders were about where they stand in relation to russia…because there is generally no huge differences in appearance and culture, ukraine never provoked their “brothers” in arms…they were in a bit of shock and confusion.

            then they wanted more…

            same thing here. i think he influx of south america is a bit of a shock to some. whatever the usa gives to “them”, whatever a hispanic is, tgey want more.

  43. BioWebScape July 28, 2014 at 4:46 pm #

    A simple solution, Hard to enact, but simple in stating.

    The whole region that is the Given border of the nation-state, Is drawn up. And everyone gets the share of the Pie of the land. Start from scratch. List all the people, All sides. Devvy up the land by the Square Centimeter if needed. No favors, Select areas around water as free common zones owned by the state not the people.

    Yeah right who Am I kidding The more I think about it the more no one is going to let it go to fair value of the Class getting taught what it is like to have 5 siblings that all have to share Mom and Dad’s house that only has 3 bedrooms and a small walkable attic… People fight over spilled milk these days.

    But honestly if Israel wanted to share, they could of. but they aren’t following Christ and his teachings of Love the neighbor, which is hard to do unless God is walking and poking you all the time reminding you what you are supposed to be doing.

    My BioWebScape Design Project comes at the whole world as a shared place, not fighting over the scraps.. It can’t work in the frame work of people fighting over things, as that is just where we are now,

    My second best solution is to move them all off the land and give it to someone else. Everyone there now, gets a floating island set up in the tropics of world’s oceans. Give them to whatever family city or clan groups they want, and the whole land of Israel becomes a nature park with some historical sites for vistors to go see.

    Heck it might even work for other hotly held land based locales, Just move the people to man made islands and let the land land go native and let the plants and animals take it back.

    As there is more ocean surface area than land surface area, and the oceans get as much rain as the land and you can control your environment better if you make your land from the ground up. We have the tech, we even have the will power, but do we have the brain power to let oursleves get over ourselves long enough to think of a better way than all this hey bob I hate you ………. thing….?

    peace of Christ to you all, and Love too.

    • Karah July 28, 2014 at 9:41 pm #

      “…unless God is walking and poking you all the time reminding you what you are supposed to be doing.”

      that is why god had his laws in writing to be read every day and is still being read in every synagogue…supposedly.

      moses condemns their consciences everyday

  44. truthteller July 28, 2014 at 5:04 pm #

    I have read manyf Kunstler comments over past years on israel and it is clear he is incurious about the origins of Zionism and its siding with what we now call ultra-right racialist ideologies which did not want the Jews to assimilate in Europe, assimilation meaning large-scale intermarriage and significant reduction of the population identifying as Jewish after two generations of such.

    We can argue with, for or against the racialist non-assimilationists on both sides or the cultural assimilationists, for or against.

    We cannot argue however with the fact the Zionists did not want to assimilate and knew Palestine would have to be fairly stolen from
    the inhabitants by military force.

    We cannot argue with the fact that Kunstler has never acknowledged the right of return of Palestinians vanquished from Palestine due to this theft, and their right to participate in a vote
    determining how the land is to be governed.

    Kunstler prefers continued rabbinical law rule in an undemocratic
    state. Is this kind of Jewish identity worth preserving no matter how unpopular it makes Jews worldwide? Kunstler says yes.

    • shabbaranks July 28, 2014 at 5:28 pm #

      Complete nonsense. Where you read the ideas you parrot is beyond me. The state of Israel was established by UN Resolution 181, not by military force or theft. There was indeed an inter-state war in 1948 after the various Arab nations of the region including Egypt and Iraq attacked Israel, leading to a peace settlement in 1949. You are not entitled to your own set of facts.

      Furthermore, Israel does not live under “rabbinical law in an undemocratic state.” That is a better description of Saudi Arabia, where people live under Islamic law in an undemocratic state. Jews cannot practice their religion in Saudi Arabia. Muslims most definitely practice their religion in Israel and are accorded legal protections to do so along with Christianity, Druzeism, and the Baha i Faith. Israel’s basic laws do describe the country as a “Jewish state”, but there is free expression of the press, religion as I mentioned, and regular parliamentary participation. No such rights are accorded any non-Islamic persons in Saudi Arabia, possessor of the two holiest sites in the Islamic faith.

      • Janos Skorenzy July 28, 2014 at 6:40 pm #

        Do they even teach in Israeli schools about the incredible amount of aid the British gave to the founding of Israel? Mika liked to pretend that the Jews did it all by themselves and that the British were fighting them every step of the way. Too proud to admit that the Jews didn’t win Palestine on their own.


        • shabbaranks July 28, 2014 at 7:02 pm #

          Shoot Janos, you tell me, do they? I mean, you found a good history of some of the inception of Israel on Wikipedia so you must be able to answer your own question. But your question has no bearing on Mr. Kunstler’s fine blog post today. Oh well, back to work.

          • Janos Skorenzy July 28, 2014 at 9:46 pm #

            I’m asking you. I assume from your response that the answer is no. You folks don’t give straight answers if those answers don’t make you look good.

      • truthteller July 29, 2014 at 7:08 pm #

        Some democracy.

        Christians are forbidden missionizing Jews. Jews who converted to Christianity are not allowed right of return. Arab-Jew marriages are illegal in Israel.

        Halakhic and biblical restrictions on marriage are applied in Israel. So, for example, a kohen may not marry a convert to Judaism. Similarly, children of adulterous and incestuous unions are restricted as to whom they can marry.

        Arabs have restricted property rights. No Arab nation voted at the decisive UN vote establishing Israel.

        I agree, Iran is much more democratic than SA. Funny how the US government works with the theocracy, as long as it keeps its anti-Zionist impulses in check while both collaborating with Israel, as against Assad, who protects Christians, and funny, the US never calls SA or Israel undemocratic, as it tries to overthrow the more democratic one, which Israel considers with Assad the far bigger threat than theocratic takfiris.

  45. Sunshine July 28, 2014 at 5:06 pm #

    Much like Prince Charles and Lady Di–the Israelis and Palestinians seem to deserve one another. Bad behavior by both parties.

    I will scan the subject of the blog next Monday in the hope that another topic might be discussed.

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    • Janos Skorenzy July 28, 2014 at 9:48 pm #

      How dare you? Chuck believes in Global Warming. Meanwhile the taint of Jimmy Saville is reaching nigh unto the Palace…

  46. Capo Regine July 28, 2014 at 5:41 pm #

    Strange and stranger is our world….

    A few years ago I read a very moving homage by JFK to his dog who died. He was moved to tears. Touching. !000 Palestinians among whom many are children and infants nothing. A dog gets tears and children blown up–contempt. Sad, sad little man.

    • Javamtn July 28, 2014 at 6:50 pm #

      Apparently, you have missed his point entirely.

      • Capo Regine July 28, 2014 at 7:24 pm #

        Really? What is his point–oh Israel has a right to defend itself or some other rehash of talking points? He did cry like a baby when his doggy died and he is o.k. with Israel killing kids. Oh there is some other high concept to consider here?

        • Javamtn July 28, 2014 at 8:17 pm #

          Hamas embeds with civilians, including children, while waging war on Israel. It’s a war crime to do so, but that’s their strategy. Therefore Hamas, alone, is ultimately responsible for these deaths.

          Meanwhile, Israel’s first responsibility is the defense of Israeli citizens (human beings, all)…and that ain’t no talking point.

          • Capo Regine July 28, 2014 at 8:24 pm #

            When did Hamas attack? Embed? Well its a tight fit in Gaza–where do you suppose the kids and women should go? Oh thats right–they can;t go anywhere they are blocked in. I guess the Jews who in the warsaw ghetto attacked the werhmacht were embedded with women and children too?

            Your rehashing the talking points from Haaretz and not the reality of the ground. Hamas is not responsible for the kids blown to bits by Israel–Israel is. Perhaps is Israel gave them the ability to leave rather than have the palestinians trapped in an open air prison your point would have a relationship with reality.

            Yes, ever the victim, Israel is not responsible at all for anything.

            I have been to Gaza–have you?

          • Capo Regine July 28, 2014 at 8:38 pm #

            Tell ya what–the right to defense would be very persuasive if Palestinians were killed attacking on Israeli soil. Defense is less plausibe when it consists of attacking hospitals, homes and schools with rockets and air strikes. Military wise–Israeli has is carrying out an offensive–no defense here buddy.

          • Javamtn July 28, 2014 at 9:45 pm #

            So, per your logic, rockets launched by Hamas don’t count as an offensive ‘attack’ because they originated from Gaza and not on Israeli soil…and Hamas’ weapons cache stored in Gaza schools, hospitals, mosques etc may not be targeted by Israel for destruction because there might be civilians there.

            OK…got it.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 28, 2014 at 9:51 pm #

      Animals are easy to love. Beginners have to start there. Some don’t get any further. Some do and then fall back into it due to the stress of the Emotional Marketplace and the savagery of the Human Zoo.

  47. Spacecase July 28, 2014 at 6:25 pm #

    I’m surprised James made no mention of the sizable natural gas reserves off the shore of Gaza that has revealed itself to be the real reason for this massacre. (There’s no other word for it, sorry.) Please, Jim, read this article and educate yourself. I’m sure you can work it into your fuel scarcity narrative somehow. Cheers.

    IDF’s Gaza assault is to control Palestinian gas, avert Israeli energy crisis


  48. BrunoGerace July 28, 2014 at 6:49 pm #

    S’pose I’m done here.

    No, no, please. Let me get this one…

    Go fuck yourself, Gerace!

  49. LLPete July 28, 2014 at 7:16 pm #

    JHK, Israel has no right to exist. No more right than any of the other uncountable tribes, clans, peoples, nations, and empires that have inhabited that unfortunate region of the world since before the time of recorded history and have fought and struggled and warred and have succeeded and failed and prospered and perished.
    And whose land is it or was it anyway? When do you start counting? Fifty years ago? A hundred, thousand, ten or a hundred thousand or even earlier?
    The only right to exist that any of them had or have is that of might. Yes, might makes right. Israel will continue to exist as long as it can and then will take its place among the lost and forgotten. Even might is fleeting. Just ask Ozymandias, the late great King of Kings.

    • Javamtn July 28, 2014 at 7:26 pm #

      “Israel has no right to exist. No more right than any of the other uncountable tribes, clans, peoples, nations, and empires that have inhabited that unfortunate region of the world since before the time of recorded history…”

      Tell that to the Jordanians, Saudis, Syrians, Iraqis, Lebanese, Egyptians…Americans, British, French….shall I go on?

      • Capo Regine July 28, 2014 at 8:31 pm #

        Seriously, how much do they pay you. You are obviously one of the thousand hired to put in talking points into blogs, comment sections and social media. You are straight from that blue binder they give you shills.

        • Javamtn July 28, 2014 at 9:04 pm #

          Nope…just expressing my opinion, just like you.

          • Capo Regine July 28, 2014 at 9:17 pm #

            My opinion is based on basic facts. You have no opinion–you are just repeating time work cliches……Rockets, right to defend, they embed with children, tunnels, did I miss any of your “original” opinions……

          • Javamtn July 28, 2014 at 10:08 pm #

            Sometimes cliches are cliches because they’re true. And you can interpret the ‘basic facts’ any way you like. That’s why it’s called an ‘opinion’.

      • LLPete July 28, 2014 at 10:36 pm #

        Javamtn, Yes, you could go on and on. Name any group that has emerged from or touched down upon that godforsaken region and none of them have any more right to a presence there than any other group, save by what right and might they can muster by hook or by crook, by unity and ultimately, force of arms. Tell them all.
        The late, great Rodney King asked, “Can’t we all just get along?” The answer is, “No, we can’t and we won’t. War is what we do and have done since human bands first emerged onto the evolutionary scene.”

  50. beantownbill. July 28, 2014 at 7:56 pm #

    Really, all these moral arguments against Israel are smoke screens, or as some may say, red herrings. The reality of the whole matter is that a group of people decided to launch missiles loaded with explosives at another group of people. The other group of people decided to fight back. End of story. War is brutal and innocent people die. Unfortunate, but that’s the way it has always been. Why should slightly evolved apes behave differently? Is it reasonable to expect 6 or 7 thousand years of “civilization” to override millions of years of evolution?

    Again, bottom line: residents of Palestine started a fight and are getting their asses kicked. As James so succinctly put it, grow up. When you are in a street brawl, you don’t fight according to Marquis of Queensbury rules, you bite, kick,and gouge. All this simpering and complaining from desk-bound effete snobs who have never been in a real fight is laughable. You are telling others to cease and desist, just like you see your own country falling apart and do nothing.

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    • Capo Regine July 28, 2014 at 8:27 pm #

      Residents of Palestine started a fight? Profound. Palestinians are residents of a open air prison, they can;t go anywhere. Also, when did they exactly start the fight? Facts are stubborn. Three Israeli kids kidnapped by a non gaza group government knows this and keeps people on edge making them think Hamas did it.

      I was in the IDF for 6 years. Many of us against this massacre.

      • beantownbill. July 28, 2014 at 11:04 pm #

        Bullshit! IDF? No way.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 28, 2014 at 9:42 pm #

      You are on the same side as Joan Rivers, author of “Men Are Stupid and Like Big Boobs”. This isn’t a logical argument but you have no interest in those anyway. You are on the same side as Joan Rivers.


      Keep the pressure on Brothers – Hollywood is falling. And as goes Hollywood so goes America. As fall Wichita falls Wichita Falls.

  51. MikeMoskos July 28, 2014 at 9:18 pm #

    First, let’s begin by saying this is not a conflict between the Jews and Palestinians. It is war between two governments frothing at the chance to be mass murderers. Like the Greeks and the Turks, Jews and Palestinians can (and did) live peacefully as direct neighbors for thousands of years.

    I see 3 possible scenarios:
    –Israel fires up its nuclear weapons and eliminates the problem. What’s the point investing in weapons if you’re going to let them deteriorate unused?
    –Through referendum, Palestinians are asked to join Israel as full citizens with absolute local rule (think Switzerland). All contested lands become part of Israel. Both sides get peace. Israel gets access to all the resources it wants (land, any fuel, and most importantly, water). Israel’s goal of being a racially pure state, a haven for the Jews is decimated. Palestinians get the chance to fully participate in Israel’s growing economy.
    –Continue the current path until both sides run out of resources to fight and lots die. This of course is the preferred situation of both governments since having an aggressive enemy is what keeps them both in power.

  52. progress4what July 28, 2014 at 9:24 pm #

    “All this simpering and complaining from desk-bound effete snobs who have never been in a real fight is laughable. You are telling others to cease and desist, just like you see your own country falling apart and do nothing….” – beantown bill –

    Bill – you’re as American as I am. Seeing you refer to the rest of us as separate in “your own country” as though it is not yours as well – is disturbing to say the least. And this is not the first time you’ve given off that vibe.

    And – one of the rules of street fighting after elementary school is that there is ALWAYS someone who is bigger, meaner, or more motivated than you are. There are individual Palestinians who have suffered far more than you and me and JHK combined.

    • beantownbill. July 28, 2014 at 11:13 pm #

      I am as American as the next guy, you are right. But I don’t complain how bad our government and society are and then do nothing about it. That’s what’s different between me and the typical citizen. And, yes, there are probably several billion people in the world who have suffered more than me. So what’s that point?

  53. progress4what July 28, 2014 at 9:35 pm #

    “I was in the IDF for 6 years. Many of us against this massacre.”
    – capo –

    You guys need to speak up, maybe especially in the States.
    It’s like the neo-con policies of the Bush administration finally killed the desire to overuse military force in much of the US – but metastasized horribly and affected some of the US Jewish population to be found on this blog.

    • Capo Regine July 29, 2014 at 9:56 am #

      Much dissent on this–Israelis not united on this. 6 former heads of intelligence and many now resisting reserve duty are against all of this. The lies and distortions are amazing. I suspect that many that are so facile in supporting the “operation” have never seen a person blown up or a child. Some like javamtn spout off cliches created by PR firms and distort facts to justify indiscriminate killing. Israeli forces very capable and in fact the rocket stashes or weapons could have been captured by targeted police action rather than an all out military offensive for example. Many of you miss the point–the point is that this is about collective punishment for the Palestinians not electing who Bibi wanted. Its that simple, there are contrived pretexts but thats the bottom line.

  54. progress4what July 28, 2014 at 9:53 pm #

    If this thing had an edit function then I might tone down those last two posts just a little bit – but it doesn’t.

    And I’ll repeat that I really don’t care what the Israelis do – they are the ones who live in a bad neighborhood, not me – and not any of us who are born and raised in America.

    But – the Jewish State was established for better things than this violent tit-for-tat that seems to only be getting worse for 60 years, now.
    If they are ever going to find a better way it’s time to be damn quick about it – while there’s still oil to burn, and the US is still willing and able to back them up.

    Nothing lasts forever.

  55. rustychisel July 28, 2014 at 10:24 pm #

    First time post here. After reading a good number of the comments, I’m not quite sure if I should chuckle, bemoan the widespread stupidity opinions built on shaky bases or just keep my head down and wait for the smoke to clear. When we talk about “rights” or “justice”, we’re doing so only within our own, rather broad and often personally defined concepts. Does Israel have a right to exist? No more and no less than any other nation does. Do the Palestinians have a right to a homeland? Again, no more and no less than anyone else. It pains me to hear of schools and hospitals destroyed. Gaza is not such a big place that the Israeli military didn’t know they were there. Even in war, there should be a level of decency that people will adhere to. And of course, Hamas is no innocent party standing on high moral ground either. Strapping explosives onto human delivery systems or loading a vehicle to explode in in a crowded market, killing and maiming dozens. Did we not have a small taste of this recently in Boston? Our desire for power, influence and control is our plight and our curse people. My opinions, yours, Jim’s or any world figure I’m aware of will not make one bit of difference. We live too large in a world too small. It’s always been this way and probably always will, until it can’t any longer. Every one of us starts to die the moment we’re born. If we’re lucky, it’s a long drawn out process where we get to experience some of the sweetness that life can offer. Life doesn’t have to be this brutal. Whether you’re an Israeli artillery commander, a leader of a terrorist cell or just a guy who reads blogs and can’t comprehend all the big questions of WHY in the world, every day begins anew and offers you another opportunity to get up and do something different.

    On another point, just wanted to say thanks to Jim for “A History of the Future”. I couldn’t put it down and read it straight through in one night. As always Jim, you leave me wanting more.

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  56. gasman July 28, 2014 at 11:06 pm #

    if the Israelis laid down their arms tomorrow they would be massacred. If the Palestinians laid down their arms tomorrow there would be peace.

    Anyone who thinks this is about territory or politics is an idiot this is about religiously inspired hatred specifically of the Jews. It appears that hatred of the Jews is built right into the DNA of humans. Humanity has proven conclusively that it cannot be trusted to not persecute Jews. This is why there needs to be a Jewish state.

    • beantownbill. July 28, 2014 at 11:16 pm #

      I think you are right.

    • BookAdams July 29, 2014 at 2:17 am #

      These simple maps reveal Reality:


      Maybe Mr. Kunstler will allow them to remain here, without deletion, so everyone can actually visualize this Reality before commenting.

      Excuse the Palestinians for living…

    • Janos Skorenzy July 29, 2014 at 3:08 pm #

      That’s just a slant on the old “Jews are human beings, but the Gentiles merely appear to be human.” This is one of the main themes of the Talmud – but such attitudes persist even in secular Jews.

      Spinoza (an excommunicated Jew) said, Judaism is based on hatred. Strong words, but who can say they are unjustified once your words are analyzed?

    • S M Tenneshaw August 20, 2014 at 10:52 pm #

      Damn Straight.

  57. EllieK July 29, 2014 at 12:57 am #

    Thank you Mr. Kunstler for so eloquently explaining what is going between Israel and her neighbors.

    Holon, Israel

    • Capo Regine July 29, 2014 at 1:55 pm #

      You mean regurgitating the propaganda talking points from the Prime Minsters office and AIPAC no?

      Yossi, Park Heights Baltimore

  58. steelrust July 29, 2014 at 4:39 am #

    “Dear” JHK,

    the coarse pro-zionism of your today post is, beside of extremely bad taste, simply totally out of touch with reality.

    You should (re?)read you Chomsky books: with some luck maybe this time you will even be able to understand at least some of his writing.

    BTW: Thankyou for showing, at last, your real allegiances, beyond the somescreen of your previous posts.


  59. sprezzatura July 29, 2014 at 8:02 am #

    The Palestinians are wrong to bomb Israel. The Israelis are wrong to bomb women & children. Nobody is ever going to win this one. Humans have been fighting here for 5,000 years. They will be fighting in the same spot 5,000 years from now.

    The problem is not Hamas. The real problem is all the Arab nations that are funding and arming the endless procession of nuts who make up Hamas. The Arab world wants the Palestinians to be an eternal thorn in the side of the Israelis. The last thing they want is a resolution to the conflict.

    As Jim says, the only hope is when petroleum decline relegates the Middle East to the dusty backwater it deserves to be.

  60. american1 July 29, 2014 at 8:19 am #

    Comparison to football (soccer) is in very bad taste. Soccer is a game that anyone who can walk and run participate in. It just takes a ball, even if made out of old rags.

    Take back your football comparison. It is even played in the US.
    Despite the abominations at the World Cup in Brazil, it is a non contact sport.

    Jim, you missed this one.

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  61. Valevapor July 29, 2014 at 9:52 am #

    James, this is clearly an issue that touches a nerve with you, but these posts don’t really jibe with the broader themes of your work. I think many people are drawn to your blogs because you articulate issues that are of global, transnational concern. Dwelling on this lower-level, ethnocentric crisis is going to put off some of your readers who are more interested in the universal ramifications of resource scarcity, poorly-designed living arrangements, and financial malfeasance that cut across all arbitrary human demarcations. Please, get back on topic.

    • MisterDarling July 29, 2014 at 1:49 pm #

      Thank you, Vale’.

  62. Capo Regine July 29, 2014 at 10:03 am #

    Just a thought for those of you attack enthusiasts.

    Gaza has 1.8 million people. So 150 children dying violently is like 27,500 in US. That’s 1,375 Sandy Hooks in three weeks.

    Mull it over will you. If you are o.k. with killing of so many children under whatever pretext you have deeper problems than can be resolved via an exchange on this blog.

  63. marcus_aurelius July 29, 2014 at 11:33 am #

    “Israel has all the proof it needs that world opinion will never consider its right to exist”

    Compare with:

    “Israel has all the proof it needs that world opinion will never consider its right to exist on land occupied for generations by other sovereign people, seized through commemorated acts of terrorist murder on the basis of an authority it claims it has been granted by an invisible sky god”

    I can understand why Mr Kunstler prefers the shorter version.

  64. srv July 29, 2014 at 12:40 pm #

    An essay ‘absolute’ of Zionist denial!

    You are either ignorant of historical fact or you are a bold faced liar Mr Kunstler!

    Israel has been playing this game for decades, as they methodically (using every shameful excuse you parrot in this piece) remove the few remaining traces of Palestinian civilization in the land they called home for thousands of years.

    The Zionist plot has been executed as planned, accusing the victims of the crimes used to implement that very plan.

    . Who bulldozed homes and murdered any who dared linger in their home land?
    . Who holds an entire nation hostage in their own land as they concoct excuses to “cull the heard” and continue the ethnic cleansing and theft of Palestinian land with each wave of military action against defenseless victims?
    . Who puts forward the fraud of a just, democratic government that is in reality a vicious military machine built on graft and corruption in theocratic dictatorship disguised as democracy (the Jewish state, not a state of the free people Israel)?

    You have lost your way, and show the world why it must band together to impose a just solution for the people of Palestine against the oppression of the war mongers of the Jewish (non Jews need not apply) State… including ending the illegal possession of weapons of mass destruction before the religious fanatics you support turn the earth to dust!

    * Note: You conveniently do not mention the “reason” given for the murders of over 1000 innocent women and children… the murder of three Israeli teens. Yet, to date, there is no evidence that Hamas directed.or participated (from Israeli official sources) in the murders.

    Pure Zionist propaganda!

  65. wayfarer July 29, 2014 at 1:15 pm #

    The main problem to me is that Gaza is a prison. People are born in and die in a prison. Many people, could not stand this so they fight. It is there human nature. So, from the Palestinian point of view this fight can never end until either they escape from prison or they are exterminated.

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  66. volodya July 29, 2014 at 2:33 pm #

    This Israel vs Palestine discussion is like the chicken and egg debate except with flocks of chickens and eggs by the dozen. You can debate this until the end of time.

    Some commenters have said that who’s right and who’s wrong is entirely irrelevant and IMO they are correct. After all, this won’t get settled in court in front of a magistrate. If it gets settled at all it will be by force of arms.

    Will Palestinians in Gaza “win” by provoking Israel to attacking and then merely surviving? Um, no, Israeli bombs and missiles repeatedly turn the place into a shambles and kill thousands. This is not a way for Gazans/Palestinians to “win”. You don’t win wars by getting the shit pounded out of you. Losing battles is not the way to victory. Winning battles is the way to victory.

    IMO this succession of Arab military disasters at the hands of the Israeli military is the road to ultimate Palestinian dissolution as a viable cause. Do they want indefinite Israeli domination and colonization? If so, then all the Arabs have to do is keep losing.

    BTW, I hear they’re stockpiling weapons in Lebanon I suppose with the eventual aim of provoking yet another Israeli attack. I would urge Hezbollah to smarten up. Not that Hezbollah would listen to me, but unless they have a plan to defeat the IDF (which I’m pretty sure they don’t), the IDF will again do to Lebanon what the IDF did in the past, that is, invade, kill thousands, reduce the place to smoking ruin. Then the Israeli army will leave.

    Hezbollah will then no doubt triumphantly stand up, thumb its nose, declare “victory” and shout that Hezbollah still exists. But it will be Lebanon reduced to rubble, not Israel. And, at the end of the day, Israel will also still exist.

    The stated Palestinan/Muslim aim is to destroy Israel. IOW, victory is defined by killing the Israeli enemy and taking his territory. A common sense definition of victory I would say. But after decades of conflict all that’s been accomplished is one demonstration after another of incompetent Muslim/Arab warmaking.

    Ah, yes, the alleged “long game”, the propaganda war, the war for world opinion. Has Israel lost the battle for world opinion? Maybe it has. So what? Does anyone seriously think that Israelis will fold up the tent and surrender on the basis of world opinion? Not happening.

    Nobody has a crystal ball. But if the Arabs keep provoking and losing against their much stronger adversary they could end up with a much larger “Greater Israel” to contend with. That is, after a war of conquest and ethnic cleansing. The unforeseen has a way of coming to pass.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 29, 2014 at 2:58 pm #

      Thank you for explaining the Zionist Strategy: provoke war by outrage and then claim victim status as you ethnically cleanse. It’s amazing how many have fallen for it – but we’re waking up now, thank you very much.

      Remember, Zionist forces supported by their American dupes were defeated in Lebanon by Hezbollah, retreating with heavy losses. And the only battle you have to win is the last one. Americans spent the Revolutionary War mostly running from the British. Face it, setting up in Palestine was folly. Folly Volly.

    • beantownbill. July 29, 2014 at 4:35 pm #

      I think ethnic cleansing is a way overused term. True ethnic cleansing occurs after only after the target population has a large percentage of its population wiped out. For example, if you wiped out the entire population of 170 million Nigerians, that would be ethnic cleansing

      • beantownbill. July 29, 2014 at 4:37 pm #

        But wiping out 170 million Chinese isn’t.

        • WW July 30, 2014 at 4:34 pm #

          If the jews are commiting ethnic cleansing they’re shit at it. The population of Gaza is four times what it was and considering that half the population is under 18 and with large famlies like that will double againin twenty years.
          Maybe Vlad could give them some pointers from his heroes. Afterall they managed to reduced the Jewish population by six million in just a few years

      • Capo Regine July 29, 2014 at 5:40 pm #

        Hmm so the term is overused? Says who? Is there some rule on how often a term is used? Are you the arbiter of not only optimal human population but word usage also? So what is the acceptable level of the term ethnic cleansing and how do you monitor usage? What is the optimal level of population? Who determines that? Are you willing to help the cause and take you and a lot of people you know and care for over a cliff or in some sort of Jonestown type mass suicide as a service to remaining humanity? Just asking.

        • beantownbill. July 29, 2014 at 8:16 pm #

          Sure, as long as you go over with me.

  67. Cavepainter July 29, 2014 at 2:43 pm #

    PLEASE, no more of this grousing about who did what to who “back when”. GAME OVER! To give perspective; with the forthcoming economic contractions none of the scenes we’re accustomed to seeing on “nature” channels (leaving us wispy eyed) will exist because growing desperation will result in the slaughter of all the animals now protected on reserves and parks. Get it? There will be no funding for rangers who will themselves be slaughtered or become poachers in the course of the following squeeze on survival for any and all.

    Most of the patter I read in response to JHK’s posts is pure idealistic bullshit, as obtuse to objective reality as are the prattle of religion. Most of humanity will simply die off for lack of resources or in war for what crumbs are left. The US might yet have a slim chance of averting a very chaotic horror in social break-down if we cut the PC crap, curb population growth and quit tolerating simplistic platitudes about diversity sensitivity. The shit is already on the fan.

    • Capo Regine July 29, 2014 at 3:12 pm #

      Yes, objecting to the killing of children is just idealistic bullshit and platitudes. Guess killing of kids just does not bother you. Objecting to slaughter is just PC bullshit and children blown to bits just has nothing to do with reality.

      • Cavepainter July 29, 2014 at 3:29 pm #

        Of course, you steadfastly sidestep the point by pretending that your laments are going to do anything other than allow you to practice a kind-of passive sanctimoniousness (yes, I coined that). The future of humanity is a baked cake of countless millions dying off while some lucky few might yet be able to save themselves by not allowing their local ratio of people to sustainable resources to get too off balance.

        Tell me o righteous one, are you willing to admit the overpopulation of Palestine to flood into the US as remedy to their desperation? How about all desperate people elsewhere? Taken to its obvious conclusion your moral argument is that the citizenry here should forfeit all livability to the mission of absorbing all desperate people the world over.

        • Capo Regine July 29, 2014 at 3:40 pm #

          Objecting to the slaughter of children does not make me rightous–it just makes me a human. You seem to be all for death and destruction. Perhaps you should do your bit to lighten the load on mother earth by just one?

          Yes, they can surely come to the U.S. If we are letting in 5 million central americans why not 1.8 million palestinians. The U.S. is paying people to foster teenage hondurans 7k a month, I think that many americans would take palestinian children for half of that. Not passive–I have worked refugee camps and war zones. Talk is cheap–if you saw the reality of what you blather about you would cry like a bitch.

          • Cavepainter July 29, 2014 at 8:39 pm #

            The rhino species is going to disappear, true too for the upland gorilla, the elephant herds, all big predators. The same can be true for all threatened species here on the North American continent. No more wilderness experience available, just teeming masses of conflicting cultures if we let unlimited numbers flock to the US in desperate attempt to escape the increasing stress of overpopulation elsewhere. In the mean time prospects here will dwindle away if sentimentalist like you prevail with aggrandized notion that our nation is somehow excepted from the perdition that will press ever increasing numbers toward our border. Ah,…it is not a nice picture but no amount of angst over the plight of children elsewhere can change nature’s indifferent calculus. Your sentimentalism doesn’t make you human, it simply is a self indulged psychological bromide against reality.

          • Glitch Mobiliou July 30, 2014 at 10:49 pm #

            “One manifestation of this ideal of refusing geopolitical borders in favour of older or no borders can be seen in Hogan’s repeated references to the idea of Pangaea, the theorized ‘original’ landmass that eventually broke apart into the continents… Through their reconnection with Native understandings of space and their successful creation of an effective coalition, Hogan’s characters claim citizenship as Native subjects who have a different but valid knowledge of the world and can forge the political power to help shape that world.” ~ Dreaming of Pangaea: Decolonizing Strategies in Linda Hogan’s Solar Storms

            Israel, like Italy, India or Indonesia are, as coercive states, glorified prisons in which we, as a species, don’t belong.

            Israel appears as the sociopoliticultural equivalent of a clusterfuck and/or giant eyesore-of-the-century, in the human consciousness and conscience, its raison d’etre about as defensible as some kind of American suburban shlock development that elbows out the mom and pops and sense of community, etc.. 70 years of ‘never again’ but it’s still the same ol’ all over again. The definition of insanity.

            Jim, how is your garden growing this year, and your health? And did I miss your mention of what bathing suit you finally settled on, if any?

  68. progress4what July 29, 2014 at 3:03 pm #

    This is disturbing. Here’s how our host opened his missive for the week: “Israel has all the proof it needs that world opinion will never consider its right to exist important.”

    Huh? WHAT? Sorry, but events on the ground and the 100% backing of the US military make this view look paranoid, to be gentle (Gentile?) about it.

    And where are the rational middle-of-the-road American Jewish voices? Well? Few seem to be posting on this blog. One does, in the person of Capo Regine. That same Capo to whom our own beantown bill directs, “Bullshit! IDF? No way.”

    This place is circling the drain toward paranoia.
    And it’s seriously creeping me out.

    I suppose it’s “bullshit” that this guy was ever involved with the IDF, also – Yuval Diskin?

    “Yuval Diskin was the director of Israel’s internal security service Shin Bet between 2005 and 2011. In recent years, he has become an outspoken critic of the policies of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.”


    Seriously – read the interview. Not all moderate voices are effete.

    “Diskin: Nobody can predict an Intifada because they aren’t something that is planned. But I would warn against believing that the Palestinians are peaceful due to exhaustion from the occupation. They will never accept the status quo of the Israeli occupation. When people lose hope for an improvement of their situation, they radicalize. That is the nature of human beings. The Gaza Strip is the best example of that. All the conditions are there for an explosion. So many times in my life I was at these junctions that I can feel it almost in my fingertips.

    SPIEGEL: Three of your sons are currently serving in the Israeli army. Are you worried about them?

    Diskin: And a fourth is in the reserves! I am a very worried father, but that is part of it. I defended my country and they will have to do so too. But because real security can only be achieved through peace, Israel, despite its military strength, has to do everything it can in order to reach peace with its neighbors.”
    – excerpt of interview –

    • Capo Regine July 29, 2014 at 3:16 pm #

      Thanks for that.

      Here is more: http://www.imemc.org/article/68658

    • beantownbill. July 29, 2014 at 4:39 pm #

      I am sorry I’m creeping you out, Procon.

  69. beantownbill. July 29, 2014 at 3:56 pm #

    My wife buys a lot of fruit. The other day she brought home a melon that had fruit flies on it. Now we have a fruit fly infestation. The little buggers multiply ridiculously fast. Just when you think you’ve eliminated all of them, the ones you missed breed and I before you know it,

    • Capo Regine July 29, 2014 at 4:01 pm #

      Interesting, the English used to say that about the Irish.

      • Vlad the Inhaler July 29, 2014 at 5:52 pm #

        Did they?



        In what context?

        • Capo Regine July 29, 2014 at 6:06 pm #

          Cromwell, slaughter of Irish in 1649. Context–motivating his solidiers against the catholics. Look it up or try reading a bit of history or maybe comics for you.

          • Vlad the Inhaler July 31, 2014 at 7:34 am #

            I repeat the question:

            When had “the English” (whomever you imagine them to be) “used to say” (your words) “The little buggers multiply ridiculously fast. Just when you think you’ve eliminated all of them, the ones you missed breed and I before you know it” about “the Irish” (whomever you imagine them to be). For your information, Cromwell killed a large number of people in the British Isles in general and his motivation was not tribal or national.

    • beantownbill. July 29, 2014 at 4:26 pm #

      I got a case of fat fingers again, sorry. To continue: …and before you know it, the infestation has returned.

      I bring this up for obvious reasons – I’m not trying to be subtle here. Those who say Israel is trying to “cull the herd” aren’t thinking clearly, if at all (most likely). Arab populations are increasing rapidly and there’s no way Israel can wipe them out, short of a WW3-inducing nuclear strike. The Israelis know this and they’re not stupid. It’s ludicrous to think they’re trying to exterminate the Palestinians. Look at all the effort they’re putting out in this latest round, and the Palestinians have suffered less than .1 % deaths. Hardly the stuff of genocide (compare this with the 33% deaths of world Jewry in Ww2).That’s when I stop reading posts by idiots who claim the Israelis are hell-bent on extermination.

      For the record, I am deeply saddened by all this death and destruction. Given the perilous state of the world, it doesn’t look like humanity is going to grow up in time.

      Throughout the Middle East, including Israel, there are way too many people. A good deal of the land is desert already. When food and water become scarce, as they will, all the Arab oil won’t prevent the drastic population reduction. I concur with JHK that lack of these resources will be the real problem in the area. A poster on another blog wondered about “peak topsoil”. Now that’s a term that ought to stay in our lexicon.

      • Capo Regine July 29, 2014 at 5:42 pm #

        Well we are all hosed–I guess we should all go on a killing spree or leap off a cliff like lemmings. Forget compassion and feeling for murdered children. Its peak topsoil!!!!

      • Janos Skorenzy July 29, 2014 at 6:47 pm #

        So can we agree that the Jews should have taken Madagascar when it was offered to them? There was room there for all the Jews who wanted to come and room to grow after that.

        • Karah July 31, 2014 at 11:28 am #

          no one has stopped “the jews” from having whatever they want.
          why do they not want a nice island?

  70. Vlad the Inhaler July 29, 2014 at 6:12 pm #

    “The Hamas war leaders are killing their own people to score public relations points.”

    Well, not exactly killing them – not directly anyway -, but the Israeli reaction is as predictable as sunrise and they are certainly putting them in harm’s way knowing what the likely outcome will be calculating, it seems, that all the predictable death, maiming and destruction is good for business. That’s not unusual with terrorist organisations; the I.R.A. and E.T.A. do or did essentially the same thing – provoking a reaction and then milking it for all it’s worth. I’m sure there must be other examples, possibly some involving the actions of states. Whether they realise it or not, Israel is doing exactly what their enemies want them to do which is not usually held to be a good idea.

    But I don’t get this “right to exist” thing, whether applied to Israel or any other nation state or political entity.

    When my grandparents were born, there was an Ottoman Empire, an Austro-Hungarian Empire, a British Empire and a Tsarist/Russian Empire. All have now bitten the dust including the latter, which morphed for a while into the Soviet Union (Empire), now also defunct. Not only that, but some of the other off-shoots of these entities have come and gone: Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia – did they have the “right to exist”? If so, where are they now? Iraq is also unravelling, a process no doubt catalysed by the irresponsible, unprovoked and murderous invasion. If Britain has a “right to exist”, then somebody had better tell the Scots, who could vote it out of existence shortly. Israel is no exception to the rule that everything put together sooner or later falls apart. How can it be?

    By the way, Israel was, as I’m sure everybody has noticed, founded in 1948 in the Levant. Before we judge the descendants of the indigenous peoples too harshly (some of the displaced are still alive, after all) perhaps we could do a thought experiment and wonder what our reaction would be had Israel been founded in the part of the world where we live.

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    • Capo Regine July 29, 2014 at 6:38 pm #

      Good points. All human arangements are temporary. Chaos is the norm. Twenty years from now some kid who saw his mother and baby sister blown to bits will be consumed by revenge and the clowns at CNN will be baffled as to why this guy committed some horrible violent act. So it goes. Guess you can ask a Navajo as to how he feels about pilgrims and christians settling in North America the land of freedom and opportunity and killing of indians. Though will say the Mexicans and amerindians sure seem keen to take the place back. They may even put white people in little reservations with mock up office parks, malls, tract homes, SUV’s and tattoo parlors so the kids can see what american culture was all about

      • Janos Skorenzy July 29, 2014 at 6:51 pm #

        Exactly – that’s why America should be for Whites only. One Land, One People. The Zionists knew that but they couldn’t get the Arabs out before the world began to complain. Thus their fate was sealed.

        It’s fine for there to be more than one state in a given culture – such as the old Greek and Italian city states. But the opposite of more than one culture (or people) in given state just isn’t viable.

        • Capo Regine July 29, 2014 at 8:17 pm #

          Huh? Ship has long sailed on the white america thing. Whites of the anglo variety always hell bent on hosing others and each other. Slaves, importing millions seems to be the american and english way. The most european country is not in europe–its argentina. As for the u.s.a it is well along in being a northern version of Brazil but with fat ugly women.

          • Janos Skorenzy July 29, 2014 at 8:43 pm #

            And that makes you very happy, doesn’t it? It shouldn’t since as we go you go.

    • Karah July 30, 2014 at 4:36 pm #

      that is just it…israel has been founded where we live, usa! look at both coasts and washington d.c.! check the birth certificates of most israelies.

  71. lumbricina July 29, 2014 at 7:09 pm #

    It is unfortunate that mans inhumanity to man will always be.

    RIP John Lennon, lovely Libra

    and Pete Seeger, beautiful Taurus

  72. FincaInTheMountains July 29, 2014 at 7:28 pm #

    Ukraine fires a ballistic (not nuclear, but still powerful) missiles on Rebel Eastern cities.


    It is supposed to be a precision munition, but last time Ukrainians tried to fire it there was a slight 60-mile target miss. Hope this time they’ll manage to hit Kiev.

  73. lumbricina July 29, 2014 at 7:31 pm #

    For those with Christian leanings, try reading the book Heaven is For Real. A short read. A boy speaks of a coming war, maybe a dfferent kind. Amazing things this child imparts. Out of the mouths of babes.
    Peace out.

  74. Cold N. Holefield July 29, 2014 at 8:12 pm #

    Not passive–I have worked refugee camps and war zones. Talk is cheap–if you saw the reality of what you blather about you would cry like a bitch.

    Yes, talk is cheap especially when you claim credentials and yet provide no possibility for any of us to verify those credentials. Name, rank and serial number — otherwise, you’re just another anonymous slug like all the rest of us opining away in an electronic wilderness where even falling and fallen trees can’t hear us. The sound of silence is deafening.

    So now you were with the IDF, huh mfi? Jesus, what next? I can’t wait. You’ve been so many things and no doubt you’ll be so many more before it’s all said and done — which will be exactly never.

    As far as the proxy war in Ukraine is concerned, there’s this:

    Heads Russia Wins, Tails Ukraine Loses

    • Capo Regine July 29, 2014 at 8:18 pm #

      Show me yours I will show you mine.

    • Capo Regine July 29, 2014 at 8:22 pm #

      Interesting how americans always think everybody’s life is as narrow, limited and boring as theirs. Those of us with origins in other civilized countries live. I am 68 years and have livied more in one day than you in a year.

  75. billyjim13 July 29, 2014 at 8:52 pm #

    For years I’ve realized 2 things about the mid-East:
    1. Of all places for the Jews to end up — surrounded by Muslims!
    2. The unavoidable catastrophe that is Palestine vs Israel is that — we’re looking at one fundamentalist religious society facing another fundamentalist religious society — guaran-TEE’D a lose-lose proposition.

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  76. observex July 29, 2014 at 8:54 pm #

    James, I’m sorry that you got to upset by these lines of post. There’s just no talking people out of anti-semitism, and no explanation except anti-semitism for riots in Paris about Israel, where those people are silent about Christians being killed in Iraq.
    To the anti-semites, let me tell you why we Jews make sure we work hard and save money – to defend ourselves and flee against “never again” when you decide it’s time to become murderous bigots, rather than just loudmouthed ones.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 30, 2014 at 1:32 am #

      So it’s not to enjoy luxuries – the biggest one of all being getting over on us?

      Jews are over represented at Harvard by a factor of 14. You think you’re 14 times smarter than us or is something else at work – like say ethnic nepotism?

      Does anyone believe Elena Kagan was the most qualified person for the Supreme Court?

      • WW August 2, 2014 at 8:22 pm #

        In your case Janos a factor of fourteen would be very conservative.
        You have constantly put forward your case for white nepotism. Evidently they are better at it than you! Must be their superior brains….

  77. WHMartin July 29, 2014 at 9:09 pm #

    By mid-century anyone who can afford to do so will have left Israel. See:


    Find Israel on the overshot chart.

  78. Glitch Mobiliou July 29, 2014 at 9:14 pm #

    Excuse ‘you’ for living?
    Is that along the lines of a corporation-as-a-person, or a state (government cronies) as the rest of its relatively-imprisoned population?

    But the asymmetric deaths of 1000+ people killed so far (how?) doesn’t seem to be doing the Israel state cronies (not to be confused with most of the rest) any favors in the eyes of the world…

    It also doesn’t seem to help that the Israel state cronies are umbilically-joined to the US cronies, another ostensibly increasingly-resented gang in the eyes of the world/world opinion.

    What did people of the Occupy Movement say when some were getting assaulted by the US pimpocracy’s thugs? ‘The world is watching!’?
    …Yes, it’s been a long watch, but this time seems different, in part because of peak oil and perhaps as a result, peak state, itself.
    Goodness I hope so.

    In any case, where this Israel-Palestine thing has so far been unable to get its act together, ‘world opinion’, ironically perhaps, may very well help it along.

    “I remember how it was in 1948 when Israel was being established and all my Jewish friends were ecstatic, I was not. I said: what are we doing? We are establishing ourselves in a ghetto, in a small corner of a vast Muslim sea. The Muslims will never forget nor forgive, and Israel, as long as it exists, will be embattled. I was laughed at, but I was right. I can’t help but feel that the Jews didn’t really have the right to appropriate a territory only because 2000 years ago, people they consider their ancestors, were living there. History moves on and you can’t really turn it back.”
    ~ Isaac Asimov

    “Many Palestinians and Israelis, as well as the Arab League, have stated that they would accept a two-state solution based on 1949 Armistice Agreements, more commonly referred to as the ‘1967 borders’. In a 2002 poll conducted by PIPA, 72% of both Palestinians and Israelis supported at that time a peace settlement based on the 1967 borders so long as each group could be reassured that the other side would be cooperative in making the necessary concessions for such a settlement…Another poll… invoked by the US State Department, suggests that ’78 percent of Palestinians and 74 percent of Israelis believe a peace agreement that leads to both states living side by side as good neighbors’ is ‘essential or desirable’ ” ~ Wikipedia

    “As the Madrid negotiations opened, Danny Rubinstein, one of Israel’s best-informed analysts, predicted that Israel and the United States would agree to some form of Palestinian ‘autonomy’, but it would be ‘autonomy as in a POW camp, where the prisoners are ‘autonomous’ to cook their meals without interference and to organize cultural events’. Rubenstein turned out to be correct.” ~ Noam Chomsky

  79. Glitch Mobiliou July 29, 2014 at 11:06 pm #

    Something else I thought of while thinking about Jim’s blog title…

    The nation IS the clusterfuck, rather like how industrial agriculture IS the weed.

    IOW, the nation-state of Israel doesn’t seem to do the Jews (etc.) any favors.

    In essence, every state is a failed state.

    “Although I admit that the outcome in a stateless society will be bad, because not only are people not angels, but many of them are irredeemably vicious in the extreme, I conjecture that the outcome in a society under a state will be worse, indeed much worse, because, first, the most vicious people in society will tend to gain control of the state and, second, by virtue of this control over the state’s powerful engines of death and destruction, they will wreak vastly more harm than they ever could have caused outside the state. It is unfortunate that some individuals commit crimes, but it is stunningly worse when such criminally inclined individuals wield state powers.”
    ~ Robert Higgs, ‘If Men Were Angels: The Basic Analytics of the State versus Self-government’

    “The most absurd apology for authority and law is that they serve to diminish crime. Aside from the fact that the State is itself the greatest criminal, breaking every written and natural law, stealing in the form of taxes, killing in the form of war and capital punishment, it has come to an absolute standstill in coping with crime. It has failed utterly to destroy or even minimize the horrible scourge of its own creation.”
    ~ Emma Goldman

    “Host: ‘What state does function according to what you call the minimal levels of honesty? Is there a state?’
    Noam Chomsky: ‘None. States are power-centers. The only thing that imposes constraints on them is either outside force or their own populations.’
    Host: ‘What will the state look like at the end?’
    Chomsky: ‘At the end I think states ought to dissolve, because I think they’re illegitimate structures …As long as people… are able to free themselves from the doctrinal controls imposed on them by their self-appointed betters and mentors… they’ll continue to be able to struggle for peace and justice and feedom and limitations on violence and constraints on power, as they’ve been doing for hundreds of years… ” ~ From show, ‘Hot Type’ (see You Tube)

    “Anarchism is generally defined as the political philosophy which holds the state to be immoral, or alternatively as opposing authority in the conduct of human relations. Proponents of anarchism… advocate stateless societies based on what are sometimes defined as non-hierarchical organizations, and in another times is defined like voluntary associations…” ~ Wikipedia

    • Janos Skorenzy July 30, 2014 at 1:29 am #

      So why do anarchists (you love that small a, so humble) march with Communists – the biggest State mongers around? And no, no one believes that they wither away anymore so don’t give me that.

      • Glitch Mobiliou July 30, 2014 at 10:23 pm #

        Anarchy appears as more of a natural, tribal condition for our species; something that seems more aligned with a resilient, small-scale realtime-sunlight kind of life; and to precede, by a wide margin, the relatively-new ‘artificial’ or ‘contrived’ large-scale centralized (crony-capitalist/neo-feudal/etc.) state system(s)…

        “Communists and anarchists are working for the same eventual goal of a society without hierarchy. In one way communism and anarchy are pretty much the same concept: a stateless, classless society in which no one rules over others. Communists just believe that hierarchical means… can be used in the transition to this end, while anarchists believe in using only non-hierarchical, decentralized means. As an anarchist my personal opinion is that the ends don’t justify the means, and that only non-hierarchical organization can bring about a successful revolution to a non-hierarchical society. I just don’t think it’s very realistic that any government, Communist or not, would voluntarily step down from power. Communists, on the other hand, don’t think it’s very realistic to manage a revolution in a completely decentralized, non-authoritarian manner. ” ~ Eleutherios, revleft.com

        In any case, some kinds of concerns about the State may prove moot…

        “Most informed people are familiar with the concept of Peak Oil, but fewer are aware that we’re also entering the era of Peak Government…
        Central government — the Central State — has been in the expansion mode for so long that the process of contracting government is completely alien to the nation, to those who work for the State, and to those who are dependent on the State. Thus we have little recent historical experience of Peak Government and few if any conceptual guideposts to help us understand this contraction…
        All four of the causal factors itemized above are turning against continued expansion:
        – The key energy source of global transportation, liquid fuel, is no longer cheap and easy to access.
        – The demographics have reversed as the population of State dependents is soaring.
        – Debt has expanded to the point that servicing that debt now threatens the financial stability of the State and its currency.
        – The State’s separation of risk and consequence is generating systemic instability.

        There are plenty of models of State expansion… and none for State contraction. This suggests that the down slope of Peak Government will be disorderly and rife with unintended consequences.” ~ Zero Hedge.com

  80. MisterDarling July 30, 2014 at 12:56 am #

    Re | The Ongoing Ukraine Debacle:


    …win or lose, they win.

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  81. MisterDarling July 30, 2014 at 1:08 am #

    Me personally? I like my news and analysis as a side-order with *data* as the main-course…

    If you really want to cut through the BS of macro-economic projections, just look at what is actually __shipping__ out there, not what ‘could/would/should’ etc. & blahblahblah.

    For that, just look at the BDI:


    Yep. See that hump in the chart? THAT was the ‘new normal’ . . . back in 2007. [*]


    — — —

    [*] here’s that explan’;


  82. EllieK July 30, 2014 at 1:23 am #

    Some of these posts sound like quotes from the Protocols of Zion.
    Anti semitism is alive and well. For a time, after WWII, it wasn’t politically correct, but now folks have recuparated and feel free to spit out all their anti Jewish diatribes.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 30, 2014 at 1:41 am #

      Jews have been tearing the Western World apart since WW2 and even before. You all worked for decades to open our borders to the third world – insuring the end of any real Western Civilization. The execution of your plans has been superb but let’s face it: the state of Israel is turning out to be an albatross around your necks. You all really had a lot of people believing in your moral superiority for awhile there. That’s over!

      We are downtrodden so no one cares much what we think, at least not yet. But the Globalists are also displeased. Brezinski once said Israel was holding up the process of creating a World Order. And their displeasure should have you really worried.

      I’m not against Israel per se but you all didn’t conquer it on your own and you can’t hold it on your own either – and we’re tired of it. Madagascar would have been a far wiser choice.

    • WW August 2, 2014 at 8:27 pm #

      You’re now speaking about Janos’s sacred book. Ironically Hamas love it too. Janos and the Muslim Brotherhood are like peas in a pod on so many levels. Then again Vlad the Impaler is one of his heroes and his brother was a muslim!

  83. FincaInTheMountains July 30, 2014 at 4:02 am #

    Are we back in 1962?

    Was unexpected CNN message by Barbara Starr http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/07/29/ath-starr-officials-ukraine-military-fired-at-rebels.cnn.html admitting Kiev firing ballistic missiles a plea to Kremlin to stop ground invasion?

    3 ballistic missiles flying east toward Russia did not land anywhere. Like 2 cruise missiles fired in Mediterranean during recent Syrian standoff they were shot down by Russian missile defense system – after all nobody knew where the damn things were flying and what exactly they were carrying.

    After refusal of Lavrov even to speak with Kerry, CNN broadcasts that Starr episode, not unlike 1962 when during Caribbean crisis some messages were passed along over public radio broadcasts.

    Now, suddenly, we have proposals from Kerry and whats-his-name Kerry’s Ukrainian counterpart about cease-fire.

  84. br July 30, 2014 at 9:41 am #

    Yep, Kunstler is all wrong on this one. Consider that the whole country of Gaza is about the size of Manhattan. All of Gaza would fit in about one half the area of Los Angeles country. Israel is attacking UN shelters that have been verified NOT to be a launch point for rockets.

    Kunstler should quit watching main stream media and watch Democracy Now! an look at whatreallyhappened.com

    The fact is, Gaza elected a government that wasn’t a US puppet, and Israel did not like that.

    The United States should quit messing around with other peoples countries and concentrate on converting to an economy not dependent on fossil fuels.

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  85. Capo Regine July 30, 2014 at 10:52 am #

    Ah Cavepainter I see….Objecting and being disgusted by the murder of children and the vulnerable is self indulgent sentimentality and a psychological weakness–resisting reality. I can see by your response and attitude why there was no shortage of death camp guards and workers and no shortage of child murderers in the world.

  86. volodya July 30, 2014 at 11:59 am #

    Janos: Palestine was folly

    Maybe so but it’s one of those follies baked into the historical cake. How do you unbake it? Aside from another mass slaughter and mass displacement that is. But don’t get me wrong. I don’t have a dog in this fight. Israel is a small patch of ground and who rules it is of only passing interest from my own perspective.

    Not that it’s relevant at this point but what were the alternatives? Maybe a “do nothing” approach would have been better. Or maybe not. Europe had a long history of pogroms. Given what had just happened in the 1940s I doubt that there was much appetite to just let things be.

    Also, not so sure that the example of the Americans revolutionaries spending most of the war running from the Brits is a good parallel for Israel/Palestine. The Palestinians can’t run anywhere. They’re sitting ducks.

    Win the last battle? Given the unbroken series of disasters for the Palestinian side, do you see ANY prospect of winning ONE battle never mind winning a final victory over Israel? I don’t. Their present day approach is one that dooms them to perpetual defeat and humiliation. There is no future in this except Israeli domination and colonization as far as the eye can see.

    Palestine in the West Bank? In Gaza? Yeah sure. If they keep going like this they won’t have a Palestinian state. They won’t have a place to hang their hat.

    Demographic victory? Let’s say that the Arabs can breed their way to victory. But what kind of victory is it given the terrain – desert. How do the winners eat? Israel is a hive of innovation and entrepreneurship. They create things of value.

    What about the Arabs? Let’s say they crowd out the Jews by means of sheer numbers. Do they too have a thriving culture of excellence and achievement in scholarship and business and technology? Do they create things of value to exchange for food? Because if they don’t they’ll be fucked. Capital F.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 30, 2014 at 2:01 pm #

      Yes but the Palestinian spirit is unbreakable and behind them are a hundred million Arabs. And behind them hundreds of millions of Muslims. And the Jews have incurred the increasing displeasure of the Globalists. Of course there are many Jews among the Globalists who are trying to mediate the situation, but it is a growing issue. Add to this the growing distaste among the native populations of the West. Jews will react to this (as we have seen on this site) with wild and scurrilous accusations of “anti-Semitism” – which will transform the distaste into disgust. In short, as Richard Millhouse Nixon said, the long term prospects for Israel are bleak.

      Palestine was a food exporter before the Jewish conquest. Sorry. It’s not all hard core desert by any means.

      Yes Israel is an advanced Nation but they share the same pathologies as advanced European nations: low birthright and high levels of taxation and sexual perversion. Apparently porn is one the chief industries.

      • WW August 2, 2014 at 8:44 pm #

        Actually Vladdy the arab world on the whole wants nothing to do with Hamas who are an offshoot of the muslim brotherhood. Egyot has just got rid of them, the Saudis don’t want them, Iraq has problems with them, Jordan regards them as a threat. The only real support they have is Iran, Qatar and Syria which is mired in trouble ironically with ISIS wjo share Hamass ideology. Hamas have better support from European muslims and lefty loons and wingnut KKK members. All the trouble that Hamas is causing in the sinai, you won’t see it on the news much, it won’t be long before the Generals open the Gaza border and steam roller the whole Gaza strip. Of course if the Egyptian military do there won’t be a peep of protest because they can’t blame the Jews!!

        • Janos Skorenzy August 4, 2014 at 12:55 am #

          The Palestinian Cause remains immensely popular in the Muslim world – Arabs not excepted. It figures you are on the wrong side, just as you were in the Irish struggle. Some men specialize in being wrong. No doubt you are against the White Race in its struggle to survive as well.

    • pattex July 30, 2014 at 5:36 pm #

      “There is no future in this except Israeli domination and colonization as far as the eye can see.”

      – ??? Israel is not the Roman empire, which successfully adopted such an approach for many centuries. As long as this is the way the Israelis conceive of the situation, it seems they might not have a future.

  87. dweebus July 30, 2014 at 12:09 pm #

    Various Israeli officials have recently referred to the Gaza offensive as a “just war”


    Under this criteria, can the war be considered “just” from either side? Are the Rules for the Just War even relevant anymore, or is it a zero sum game to be the Last Man Standing?

    One lesson the West should have taken from the Irish troubles, was that people do not take kindly to being occupied. Hence: terrorism or resistance, depending on your perspective.

    Frank Herbert pointed out in Dune that when politics and religion ride in the same cart they rush headlong off the cliff.

    • WW August 2, 2014 at 8:51 pm #

      And yet the lesson from the irish troubles was that peace was only achieved when the IRA knew their organisation was totally infiltrated, their weapons supplies were in a stranglehold and their fund raisers realised terrorism wasn’t just a few fun songs in a boston pub. Not to mention several home goals on blowing up civilians and further funding reductions by the Police and Garda working together to strangle the IRA monpoly on fuel tobacco and drug smuggling!
      At that point they knew they were a busted flush and went for peace and government pensions

  88. nsa July 30, 2014 at 6:16 pm #

    The vicious nipponese terrorists used their children as human shields at Hiroshima…..so they all had to be nuked. Same for the Nagasaki terrorists….had to nuke them too.

    • Capo Regine July 30, 2014 at 7:01 pm #


      So lets see–the menacing Hamas rockets have killed 17 Israelis in 5 years. More people died choking on fallafels .

      In past three weeks 1200 killed of which 230 are children,

      What kind of moral calculation makes this accpetable? Just war? Right to defense? All pretty thin gruel for the horror facing these poor people.

      Perhaps a war on fallafel? Have to protect Israel from the fallafel menace!

      • WW August 2, 2014 at 9:07 pm #

        This make be a revolutionary thought to you but if you fail to ensure that your people, the ones who voted you in, have air raid shelters and evacuation plans then casualties will be high. Every israeli school has a hardened shelter. The hopital in Ashkelon has its whole A and E department and childrens ward hardened after it was hit in 2005 as was the nearby school. incidentally that hospital is where wounded palistinians are treated as well.
        You spew for about moral calculation here is one for you. What sort of government leaves its citizens unprotected, without food or shelter, has no evacuation plans, yet receives tens of miliions of pounds a year from the UK alone to provide just that. It then takes that money buys more missiles, builds reinforced bunkers for its weapons and manufactures precast tunnel sections instead of modular shelters.
        Then failing in all of it and having stored and fired its weapons from civilian areas then uses the casualties caused by its negligence and agression as a publicity campaign.

  89. BackRowHeckler July 30, 2014 at 6:54 pm #

    Heard on BBC ISIS, within a week or two, is gearing up for a genocide that will make the one in Rwanda in 1992 look like a Boy Scout Jamboree. The question is, how will the US react when the mass killing starts? Obama sycophants in the US media probably won’t be able to cover this one up. It will have to be dealt with one way or another, not ignored.

    Trouble brewing in Afghanistan, too. Expect that place to implode once we leave there this fall. Its gonna be bad, maybe worse than Iraq.

    Hey Jim, can we still talk about bathing suits? The ones they’re making for old white guys aren’t any good this is true, but have you seen the new bikinis young ladies are wearing now? I just spent a few days at Moonstone Beach in RI, not far from the URI campus. Phew!! Manufacturers aren’t using much material. And alot of crazy colors
    too! I’d say in this sphere of humanity there has definitely been improvement.


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    • MisterDarling July 30, 2014 at 7:30 pm #

      “It will have to be dealt with one way or another, not ignored.”-BRH.

      Really? Rwanda was ignored.

      “Trouble brewing in Afghanistan, too. Expect that place to implode once we leave there this fall. Its gonna be bad, maybe worse than Iraq.”-brh.

      Already brewed. If it implodes any more than it already has, it’ll be a neutron star… ;]


      • BackRowHeckler July 30, 2014 at 8:36 pm #

        Ya I would say the massacre in Rwanda was ignored at the time. It happened over a period of about 90 days the goal being to kill 10,000 people per day (with machetes from China, a goal largely achieved) At any point a western country could have intervened (to stop the killing) the way France intervened in Mali and CAR last year.

        I don’t remember, that spring of 1992, hearing much about events in Rwanda in the news. However, intelligence services in the US, Britain and France must’ve had some idea of what was going on.

        This won’t be the case in Iraq. Already this week ISIS has recorded their mass shootings and beheadings for YouTube. This time around we’ll be seeing genocide in real time, no questions asked, no quarter given.


        • MisterDarling July 31, 2014 at 12:36 am #

          “Already this week ISIS has recorded their mass shootings and beheadings for YouTube. This time around we’ll be seeing genocide in real time,”-brh.

          Yep. Isn’t the internet just *b*e*a*utiful at de-compartmentalizing violence? We’ve seen the proof of that, right on CFN’s-Main Street, haven’t we?

          We might need to upgrade IT as a ‘violence-vector’ and ‘destabilizing agent’.


      • BackRowHeckler July 30, 2014 at 8:42 pm #

        We’ll see. I think things could get much worse.

        • MisterDarling July 31, 2014 at 12:45 am #

          In Afghanistan, that is always a distinct possibility.

          From the US/NATO standpoint, getting out of the country without looking like they’re fleeing is getting harder every day. Capacity to hold things together disintegrates in a Collapse.

          Back in February the ‘GTFO-Afghanistan’ project had an SPI of 0.60 or less… Ie., they were doing 60% as well as they should have to stay on schedule…

          What is it now? I doubt anyone wants to even think about it.

          BackRow, ‘people’ DO see this stuff coming and ‘people’ DO say something about it in a timely manner, they just don’t get listened to, that’s all. Then ‘people’ ask __why__ this is what they hear:


          Stay Alert. Stay Lucky.


  90. MisterDarling July 30, 2014 at 7:26 pm #

    Afghanistan Unravel:


    And, I’m pretty sure that there’s a lot more than that ‘missing’ (ie., sold, buried, ‘borrowed’, etc.).

  91. MisterDarling July 30, 2014 at 8:13 pm #

    Surf’s Up! In the Arctic:


    … yeah, it’s kind of unheard of…

    /s Oh, but don’t worry. It’s going to take “decades” for global warming to ‘play out’… /s

    (yes, that comment was meant sarcastically. BTW, there’s just a lot of ‘controversy’ that is completely moot, at this point).

    • K-Dog July 31, 2014 at 1:36 am #

      Surf City

      And we’re goin’ to Surf City, ’cause it’s two to one
      You know we’re goin’ to Surf City, gonna have some fun
      Ya, we’re goin’ to Surf City, ’cause it’s two to one
      You know we’re goin’ to Surf City, gonna have some fun, now
      Two girls for every boy


      • Glitch Mobiliou July 31, 2014 at 8:04 pm #

        “In air, fire, earth and water
        World on the scales.
        Air, fire, earth and water
        Balance of change
        World on the scales
        On the scales…”

        ~ ‘In The Wake Of Poseidon’, by King Crimson

        • dweebus August 1, 2014 at 12:05 pm #

          The skipper he stood beside the helm,
          His pipe was in his mouth,
          And he watched how the veering flaw did blow
          The smoke now West, now South.

          Then up and spake an old Sailòr,
          Had sailed to the Spanish Main,
          “I pray thee, put into yonder port,
          For I fear a hurricane.

          “Last night, the moon had a golden ring,
          And to-night no moon we see!”
          The skipper, he blew a whiff from his pipe,
          And a scornful laugh laughed he.

          -The Wreck of the Hesperus

          • Glitch Mobiliou August 1, 2014 at 7:50 pm #

            For Guy McPherson and the Ancient Pueblo peoples:

            Reach For The Dead
            from the album, Tomorrow’s Harvest,
            by Boards Of Canada

            “Stress on the environment may have been reflected in the social structure, leading to conflict and warfare… The only reason Haas can see for a move so far from water and arable land is defense against enemies. He asserts that isolated communities relied on raiding for food and supplies, and that internal conflict and warfare became common in the 13th century.

            This conflict may have been aggravated by the influx of less settled peoples, Numic-speakers such as the Utes, Shoshones and Paiute people, who may have originated in what is today California. Others suggest that more developed villages, such as that at Chaco Canyon overstressed their environment, resulting in widespread deforestation and eventually the fall of their civilization through warfare over depleted resources…” ~ Wikipedia

            Yes, Jim, life is or can be tragic, and yet there’s also a kind of beauty in tragedy, in bleakness, irony and paradox, yes?

            I think the music video captures a little of those.

            ‘God Bless Our Home’

            God Bless Israel. And Earth…

            Off to hear what you have to say with JMG (whose weak/blind-spot may have to do, if recalled, with wage slavery)…

  92. Pucker July 31, 2014 at 8:39 am #

    What does the word “Hamas” mean anyway?

    Isn’t “Hamas” made out of chickpeas? Or is it “Hezbollah” that is made out of chickpeas? Some of that middle eastern mediterranean food is quite good. I like the kalimatan black olives.

    Changing the subject a bit, why is it legal to sell guns to fascistic murderous governments, but illegal to bribe fascistic murderous government officials to induce them to buy your guns? Isn’t it a bit like saying that murder and oppression is less important than ensuring that all vendors have an equal chance to sell their instruments of death on a level playing field. Weird…. The ethics seem a bit misplaced.

    “Washington D.C., July 28, 2014 — The Securities and Exchange Commission today charged Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation with violating the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) when employees and representatives of the U.S.-based parent company authorized and made improper payments to foreign officials while trying to win contracts to supply firearm products to military and law enforcement overseas.”

  93. MisterDarling July 31, 2014 at 2:48 pm #

    where’s contrahend?


    …he’s gonna love this.

    The actual reason that fuel prices haven’t been more volatile than they are (just hovering around the $100/barrel handle) is *Demand* destruction – it’s what happens when you take away the tangible part of ‘The Economy’ and cash it all in on *Speculation*.

    As I recall, one of our posters had a lot to say about what a huge dent renewable energy is making on the short to mid-term prospectus.

    That ‘dent’ just got quantified.


  94. MisterDarling July 31, 2014 at 2:49 pm #

    re | Libyan Rollup, continued…

    Nation-building, Late Imperial-American style:


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  95. Janos Skorenzy July 31, 2014 at 6:48 pm #

    Are you against this terrorism too? Or is this considered an “appropriate target”?


  96. BackRowHeckler July 31, 2014 at 7:33 pm #

    Ah, midsummer in New England, these warm breezes blowing in off the Atlantic, the soft soft air, fruits and vegetables ripening on the vine, everything green, Red Sox on the radio at twilight … there’s nothing else like it.


    • Glitch Mobiliou July 31, 2014 at 8:19 pm #

      “Gentleness is everywhere in daily life, a sign that faith rules through ordinary things…Even in a time of elephantine vanity and greed, one never has to look far to see the campfires of gentle people. Lacking any other purpose in life, it would be good enough to live for their sake.” ~ Garrison Keillor

  97. Glitch Mobiliou July 31, 2014 at 8:11 pm #

    An especially dystopian world is one that is not recognized as such by enough people, that is accepted as ‘reality’, as per such stories as The Matrix and The Allegory of The Cave, and one in which few do little to counter and transcend. The current, salient language, discourse, narrative, propaganda, brainwash & manufactured ideology of and through the large-scale centralized nation-state corporate oligarchic crony-capitalist global-industrial uneconomic system– call it what you will– feeds, and is part of, this dystopia, matrix, cave, map…

    The state of Israel is as ultimately toxic to the Jew as anyone else.

  98. Pucker July 31, 2014 at 8:19 pm #

    Are you “Special”? Tell me that you’re “Special”….

    Last night, I was watching one of those “Lefty” Frontline PBS documentaries about how black kids are going down-the-tubes in US public schools, but there’s always a silver-lining black Cinderella story out there.

    Anyway….It seems odd that the US educational system must be suffering from some kind of mass delusion that the purpose of an educational system is something other than to produce Obedient Workers.

    If black people want to improve their situation then they need to become the kind of workers that the ownership class wants to hire. Black people were originally imported into the US to pick cotton and at the time they were very good at it. Now no one wants to hire urban black undisciplined youth. Similarly, the ownership class does not want to hire black kids with overly high expectations who think that they’re “Special”.

    • Janos Skorenzy August 1, 2014 at 3:55 am #

      Good idea Puck. This has to be put forward as an ideal in urban schools. Waiting for Uncle Remus.

  99. Cold N. Holefield August 1, 2014 at 8:10 am #

    Ah, midsummer in New England, these warm breezes blowing in off the Atlantic, the soft soft air, fruits and vegetables ripening on the vine, everything green, Red Sox on the radio at twilight … there’s nothing else like it.

    Life is amazing. It can accommodate so many disparate realities concomitantly.

    Continuing from where you left off.

    ….and yet, far off in distant lands beyond the endless horizon, eternal and infernal conflagration rages. Blood and treasure is sacrificially spilled for the ego-bound, obstinate myopia of the few. But still, here I sit, comfortable and sated in the simple and organic beauty of life thinking, as all should, “there but for the grace of God go I” with the sneaking suspicion that the grace tank is reading empty and this ephemeral satisfaction is running on fumes.

    Ukraine Peace Proposal

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    • BackRowHeckler August 1, 2014 at 2:59 pm #

      You got that right CH, the needle on the tank is indeed reading ’empty’. That’s what this site is all about.

      I’ve got this shortwave set — thing must be 60 years old — tuned in to BBC, listening to reports of a world on fire. And that car coming down my countrified street at night maybe its not a neighbor arriving home late from work but the scum who invaded a Doctors home about a mile from here one night looking for a safe, and held a knife to the wife’s throat. I reach around and see if my Marlin is where it was when I last checked about 10 minuted ago.


  100. scionkirk August 1, 2014 at 1:28 pm #

    This whole debate is one of those that anyone calling for moderation becomes roadkill. Is it possible to support Israel, but thinking the current Likud strategy is just insanely wrong? Has war brought them peace? Has relentless bombing made Gaza less of a threat? Is it too much to ask that the Israeli govt act like rational adults that understand cause and effect? Israel is behaving like a street gang retaliating against another gang by spraying a liquor store with gunfire. The fact that Israel IS an advanced industrial democracy means that it should know better, not run off like a child going ‘Stop hitting yourself Gaza, why are you hitting yourself, Gaza? Stop hitting yourself!’, because the fact of the matter is, cooler heads must prevail, and if Israel isn’t the cooler head, the whole region is just screwed.

    And a word about the Palestinians. You hear people say ‘if they don’t like it there, why don’t they move?’ I won’t even go to ‘because they were forced out of their homes’, I will look towards the future and ask ‘where will they go?’ The fact is, they are hated pretty much everywhere else they go. Syrians proved just as effective at killing Palestinians as Israelis. The last thing Egypt wants is a flood of Palestinians disrupting their already powder-keg society. Maybe they can all move to Detroit? The fact is the strong men in the Muslim world need the Israeli boogeyman to justify their existence. The last thing any of them want is for Israel to ‘win’ and Gaza to depopulate.

    It is cheering along this doomed warpath is what is anti-Israeli. The United States soon just won’t have the money of continue to prop up the Israeli military and economy, the Muslim population is growing rapidly. Future wars won’t always have the same outcome as 1967.

  101. MisterDarling August 1, 2014 at 1:38 pm #

    Add this to the Post-Peak Oil Environment file…

    Ebola has landed:



    … as predicted (right on time, btw).

    ‘Black Swans’ are only ‘unforeseeable’ by people with their heads stuck in the sand (or elsewhere).

  102. MisterDarling August 1, 2014 at 2:06 pm #

    Just to be crystal clear, there is a very good reason why I bother mentioning other accelerative factors besides ‘Peak-Oil’ on this blog.

    The reason is this: In JHK’s ‘Union Grove’ scenario the most successful person in that fictional town is Mr. Stephen Bullock.

    The ‘Mr. Bullock’ character epitomizes the *best* that might be possible IF change is embraced. He’s the example of what a person of some means might be able to accomplish, by re-positioning assets in accordance with the ‘new normal’ of a de-globalized, post-cheap oil future.

    HOWEVER, there simply will not be any happy/healthy/wealthy landowning ‘Bullocks’ if things collapse too rapidly. There won’t be enough time to get things set up before the ‘hordes’ overwhelm…

    If the sea-level continues to rise at the rate it has (upwards hockey-stick, btw) the knock-on effects of that (storm-surge refugees for example) will take a toll before actual waves ever break across the vestibule.

    If plagues (uncontained by a lack of investment in disease control) flatten regional economies, this vastly accelerates the rate of collapse.

    Collapse is unpredictably swift and painful – and not playing favorites.

    It’s not just wiping out the places that you don’t care about, and It doesn’t have time for pleas for moral rectitude, right or wrong, ‘magic’ (technological or divine) or *last-minute heroics*.

    Happy Friday!


    • ozone August 1, 2014 at 5:44 pm #

      These are the Horsemen made ‘flesh’, and why I consider this “which side are you on?” duality to be so friggin’ moot at this point. It’s been clear to me for about 15 years that the “situations” we’re tumbling to are FAR more complex than on-or-off, or, yes-or-no, or Democrip-or-Republiblood. Issues of extinction are quickly coming to the fore. (Which might be why the Pal-Israeli “disagreements” have come to a desperate and perhaps even existential turn.)

      To add to the happiness quotient on this excellent Friday, what the hell is in this food we’ve been chowing from the BigAgFoodFactory since the mad scientists decided that Nature was not very good at producing edibles for Its’ offspring? Well, there were a lot of very dangerous chemicals left over from blowing shit up too… that had to be turned into a profitable bottom line item, otherwise a waste of chemical mega-tonnage would be lost, equalling MONEY squandered.
      (Look into HFCS and all the fine GMO products’ effects on the Youman [or rat] gut. Then place some bets on how well and how long our children will live.)

      • Janos Skorenzy August 1, 2014 at 9:27 pm #

        So you’re an objective and omnipotent narrator in all this? You are above everyone – bodiless, amorphous, diaphanous, transcendental – above any need for anything so mundane as taking a side. If so I have some crystals I want to sell you.

        “Crystal Meth?” he asks, his dull old/new age eyes brightening preternaturally and prater-naturally. No Zone, just woo woo Crystals, the kind that powered Old Atlantis.

        Your civilization took a wrong turn into using buried sunlight instead of using the Sun directly. Thus you are to be “spaded over” soon so a new beginning can be begun. No homosexuality or meat eating next time. And preserve your bloodlines for Pete’s sake. Just because you want something doesn’t mean it’s good for you or that you have to give in to it. Scorn the strange flesh my children.

      • MisterDarling August 2, 2014 at 12:41 am #

        “this “which side are you on?” …duality to be so friggin’ moot at this point.”-Ozone.

        Hello Ozone,

        Several thoughts occur while observing this latest Levantine ‘Gang-FAQ’, et al.:

        1. I want to let people process through the Five Stages of Grief (Denial, *Anger*, Bargaining, etc.) at their own pace.

        It’s obvious they are stuck in another time where it’s not too late to ‘save’ the situation and ‘work things out’ – however they define that.

        I don’t expect that most people would be ready to understand where they are on the time-line of Collapse, regardless of bona-fides or how many books they wrote about the subject.

        Almost no one truly understands and owns their part when they get to The End of the Story. Almost to a man, woman and child they go over the cliff still spouting their signature sound-bites.

        Far be it from me to demand that folks just ‘get over it’. It does absolutely no good.

        2. I’m somewhat __alarmed__ that even CFN folks are so out of touch with reality that they think they have time for all this caterwauling and second-hand aggression. It’s like watching someone run back into a house on fire so that they can save their teddy-bear or smartphone. Where *T-F* do they think they are?

        But again, it’s not helpful to ask something like that of someone when they’re out of their heads.

        PS., I’m not putting people down for mentally getting lost on the woods. I get it. I really do. But I’ve got too much experience at letting go – and taking away – to allow myself to do the same… Sorry kids!

        — — —

        (*) — and therefore more alert, and highly motivated to refactor *everything* if need be.

        • Janos Skorenzy August 2, 2014 at 1:03 am #

          Is this kind of liberal survivalism where the individual eschews all identities except that of an ideological vanishing point really a new beginning? Or is it in fact merely the last and logical stage of a dying belief system – in his case anarchism.

          It’s amazingly similar to Libertarian Anthropology who think men once lived alone and then made the rational decision to join forces in order for greater profit. Needless to say, this is the purest fantasy.

          The real anarchism is exceedingly rare – that of the Taoist Sage or advanced solitary contemplative of any Tradition. Ozone is cut off from any possibility of this by his rancorous atheism.

          • MisterDarling August 2, 2014 at 2:26 am #

            “Is this kind of liberal survivalism”… “It’s amazingly similar to Libertarian Anthropology”-Janos.

            No it isn’t. I’m not the slightest bit interested in any of a long list of ideologies. I am interested in raw pragmatism and Getting On With It, sans all pretentious B-S.

            I am not interested in amorality or nihilism for it’s own sake. Au contraire. I conduct myself with the full and mature understanding that Living is not a ‘given’, and living with Dignity even less so.

            However, I prefer these things not only for myself but others as well.

            This will be as much as I will say to you on the subject, Janos.

      • ozone August 2, 2014 at 8:19 am #

        Well, from the endless reams of surreal, self-referential crackpottery clacked out by vlad, I can pretty much guarantee that he’s never been hungry — except for power over others. Why that is would be the salient question.

        • Janos Skorenzy August 2, 2014 at 2:39 pm #

          I obviously hit a nerve with your follower. I made too much sense. Libertarianism and anarchism (you love that small a) are amazingly similar ideologically, deny it as you will. But they are organized and would rule you and not you them. Maybe that’s why you folks secretly believe in big government and march with Communists, eh? Were you involved in Anti-Fa when younger?

          I know you are far too smug (and insecure) to engage in any dialogue. I merely offer this rebuttal for the sake of Truth. Your disciple refused dialogue too – he is coming along very well isn’t he?

        • Janos Skorenzy August 2, 2014 at 2:49 pm #

          I know you were hungry back when you tried to make a living on your music. You were living on beer and crackers in a Springfield flop – too high to mind the huger pangs. I’m sorry the American people refused to fund you exhibitionism and hedonistic lifestyle. People just weren’t interested in watching you prance around in tights on stage. And for that you can’t forgive them – thus the anarchism. Eh? Am I getting warm or what!

  103. mc53pa August 1, 2014 at 3:24 pm #

    Let’s see. We are at about 1600 Palestinians dead now. This started with the tragic murders of the 3 Israelis teens (that’s the excuse). That’s a pretty good ratio for revenge. That’s way higher than the sort of ratios our mischievous German friends used to like to extract after one of their soldiers was killed in a town occupied by Germany. Enough blood yet for you Israelis and Israeli apologists? I’m sure you can find justification for the killing of these people in your religion. Because, after all, what is religion for?

    • Karah August 1, 2014 at 11:30 pm #

      did you see the rabbi in the usa park spiel into a microphone that “there are no palestinian civilians…they are all complicit to hamas”. then he practically has a conniption fit when the reporter next to him says there are palestinian men, women and children running from missiles and not fighting back…then he hits the reporter on the arm for saying it on national t.v. wow. that guy is evil.

      • mc53pa August 4, 2014 at 12:16 pm #

        It’s tiring. You cannot debate Israeli politics without being labeled an anti-semite.

  104. ozone August 1, 2014 at 5:19 pm #

    Just to add a bit more of the weird into the mix I offer this recruitment article for those who’d like to “kill you sum Pal’stin’yunz”:


    This is, of course, beyond the fairly narrow scope of what JHK is outlining this week, but it sure is a strange kind of rhyming parallel to the Spanish civil war and the recent fer’ners fighting the Grand Jihad in the [general] Mid-East.

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  105. sooda August 1, 2014 at 5:34 pm #

    The Israelis will find peace when they find a leadership that is willing to grant Palestinians a right to exist and when they stop the blockade that wreaks havoc. If they started with that, and were willing to speak to Hammas, they could expect a conversation to begin with them over new terms of coexistence. But they have to demonstrate an interest in coexistence. There’s no evidence of that so far. Why this simple equation is not understood by world opinion is an abiding mystery.

  106. sooda August 1, 2014 at 5:41 pm #

    Hammas not wanting Israel to exist kinda is a rhetorical gimmick. Proof of that lies in the fact that have successfully maintained ceasefire with them in the past, 2008 to be precise, only for Israel to no ease the blockade that so cripples Gaza

    Off wikipedia- not exactly a great source I know…

    In 2010 Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is “a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons ” Hamas have moved away from their charter since they decided to go for political office. Although there are younger more militant leaders who do think Israel should be destroyed they are no different from the right wing in the Israeli government

    • Karah August 1, 2014 at 11:34 pm #

      wikipedia is a source because you know where all the info is coming from, its all cited vociferously by all kinds of people.

  107. Javamtn August 2, 2014 at 3:54 am #

    Thank you, again, JHK, for your insightful post. It’s even more apropos today than it was 5 days ago.

  108. GarryInNola August 2, 2014 at 1:13 pm #

    Excellent article. For the life of me I do not understand how people who appear to be otherwise intelligent don’t understand the reasons for the conflict between Israel and Gaza/Hamas. It is a stated goal of Hamas to annihilate Israel. Israel tried keeping an open border between Israel and Gaza but suicide bombers had a way of working their way to Tel Aviv and blowing themselves up and killing and maiming scores of Israelis who were dining at sidewalk cafes. No, once burned, never again. Israel has every right to defend itself and the conditions in Gaza are of Hamas’ own making. Even Egypt and Iran want nothing more to do with Hamas with the former sealing it’s border with Gaza. That should tell you everything you need to know about what Israel is dealing with here.

    • Janos Skorenzy August 2, 2014 at 2:34 pm #

      I’m reading a book about how Israel tried to do to Southern Lebanon what they did to the West Bank. But they were crushed by Hezbollah. The Jews wanted the lush farmlands and water of Southern Lebanon from the very beginning. But the French defied them and they didn’t get it. So they tried again – and failed in spectacular fashion. This was a victory for all Freedom loving men everywhere.

      Some say the two blue lines on the Israeli flag stand for the two rivers, the Nile and the Euphrates – and their intention to expand Israel to fill all the land in between as their God commanded.

  109. MisterDarling August 2, 2014 at 1:50 pm #

    How about another small dose of reality?

    not 1 but 3 lost decades:


    …In the ‘Burbs.


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  110. MisterDarling August 2, 2014 at 1:56 pm #

    I thought that this might be of some interest to the CFN Community:



  111. michael_on_clusterf August 2, 2014 at 10:06 pm #

    What I would like to know is, what is Israel’s plan? They have control over the occupied territories (or disputed territories or whatever they want to call them). They are building houses on them so that now the remaining Palestinian parts are just a scattering of small, isolated pockets. (And how do you make a Palestinian state out of that, even if you wanted a two-state solution?) Gaza is the most crowded place on Earth and they are growing their population very rapidly. So what does Israel plan to do with all those people? They must be working towards something, some goal, right? Is the plan to make the Palestinians flee to Europe, or Jordan/Lebanon/Syria/Egypt? Where can they go? How can you make them all go? And if you can’t make them all go away, what do you do instead? Please tell me that Israel has a plan…..

  112. BackRowHeckler August 2, 2014 at 10:44 pm #

    “Gaza is the most crowded place on earth and they are growing their population very rapidly”.

    Interesting statement Michael. With virtually no resources at their disposal how is the population in Gaza growing very rapidly?

    Fresh water is at a premium in Gaza, and the agricultural infrastructure the Israelis generously left behind in ’08 was maliciously destroyed straight away; in fact the first thing the Palestinians did when they took over is smash up the greenhouses with explosives and AK rifles.

    Israels plan right now seems to be to knock out the missile batteries and destroy the network of tunnels the Palestinians have poured so much concrete and steel into. I have a question of my own: if the so called ‘blockade’ has been so effective and devastating, where did the thousands of missiles being launched into Israel come from? Where did the Kalishnikov rifles and RPGs come from? Everybody seems armed, even the ‘civilian’ cacualties we hear about every day on PBS (Palestine Broadcasting Service)


  113. capt spaulding August 3, 2014 at 10:37 am #

    I see the ratio of Arabs killed compared to the Jews, and hear that as a reason to condemn the Jews. Only 17 killed in comparison to the Arabs who have died in the hundreds. That in itself is no reason to condemn the Jews, just because they are better killers than the Arabs. The Arabs would kill all the Jews if they were able to . Their problem is that they’re not good enough, not because they lack the desire to do so.

  114. MisterDarling August 3, 2014 at 2:45 pm #

    Back in the realm of the relevant and quantifiable there’s a question of whether a “Stephen Bullock” character could even exist. [*]

    As I mentioned earlier, it all depends on how fast things collapse. It’s not just the global economy that is in collapse, it’s also the global climate system that we as a species have evolved in.

    Check this link:


    … And then consider what happens if Greenland is __glacier-free__ and the seal level jumps up 18 2/3 feet.

    That would mean that there’s no more ‘Boston’ or ‘New York’ to hang out in while waiting for things to “get back to normal”, and it also would mean that Stephen Bullocks project of quietly putting together a plantation is overrun by climate refugees – well before he’s ready.

    Thus there’s no “Stephen Bullock” character ‘gently’, sensibly and condescendingly waxing magisterial in some future community like “Union Grove”…

    Please note that I am being *very charitable* by citing only one climate-collapse factor.

    Okay, let’s look at the numbers using an established forecasting formula, shall we?


    Optimistic estimate for an ice-free Greenland = 2050
    Pessimistic = 2020
    Median = 2030


    2020 + 2030(4) + 2050 / 6 = 2031.66 years = ie., AUGUST 2031 NYC and Boston (and Shanghai, Calcutta, etc.) are under water.

    Oh by the way, what was that you were thinking about your golden years? /s


    Now factor in the accelerative data from the methane-plumes, then move the dates up a bit…

    O = 2040
    M = 2025
    P = 2020


    2020 + (4)2025 + 2040 / 6 = 2026.66 years = AUGUST 2026 Greenland is ice-free and not only is there no “Stephen Bullock”, there’s no bovine-eyed, shabbily dressed ‘Union Grove-ites’ either.

    Basically it boils down to = There’s no “Stephen Bullock” character or anyone like him in the future. Collapse is too ‘collapse-y’.

    Any Thoughts?


    — — —

    [*] An uber-successful character in several of JHK’s novels? You may have heard of them…

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    • MisterDarling August 3, 2014 at 5:02 pm #

      EDIT: A “jump” in the “seal-level” might be a more amusing way to doom the metropolii of the world, but alas, *sea level* is what was meant…


    • beantownbill. August 3, 2014 at 6:13 pm #

      I’m not convinced we’re suffering from global warming.. It seems very probable, but there’s too much uncertainty when dealing with a large system like the Earth.

      Assuming GW does occur for the sake of argument, if the Greenland ice cap does melt, then most likely the West Antarctic ice sheet also melted. The total ocean water level rise would be north of 25 feet and flood out East coast cities even sooner than your projections. Thus your “P” scenario timeline could become your “M”.

      I live, I think, about 42,000 feet from the ocean South of Boston on a small plateau about 150 feet above sea level. Should the ocean level rise 25 feet, the Atlantic should make its way inland a bit. With a lot of luck, my home might be prime oceanfront property with a spectacular 125 foot high view of the shore. I could do worse.

      But wait! All the glacial melt is fresh water. A lot of no-halide water could turn off the Gulf Stream conveyor belt and freeze out the entire northeast and Western Europe. Then, instead of having my beachfront little paradise, My home could be buried under 2 miles of ice sheet, leaving me to roam the frigid surface trying to dodge the polar bears while I’m hunting walrus and seals.

      What to do? What to do?

      • MisterDarling August 3, 2014 at 8:27 pm #

        I’ll answer this para by para:

        “I’m not convinced we’re suffering from global warming. It seems very probable, but there’s too much uncertainty when dealing with a large system like the Earth.-Bill.

        In this case I’m focused on the preponderance of evidence, and the evidence strongly indicates warming, less than cooling.

        It’s even more likely that the system is broken – regardless of what we think the outcome is and will be – based on disruption the systems basic operating conditions (ie., a radical changes atmospheric chemistry).

        “Assuming GW does occur for the sake of argument, if the Greenland ice cap does melt, then most likely the West Antarctic ice sheet also melted. The total ocean water level rise would be north of 25 feet and flood out East coast cities even sooner than your projections. Thus your “P” scenario timeline could become your “M”.-Bill.

        To clarify: “M” would arrive at the “P” (pessimistic) date, and the new “P” value would be that much sooner… ;] In which case we won’t be worrying about the ‘high cost of living’ for much longer. At least not in the way that we did for much of our lives.

        “I live, I think, about 42,000 feet from the ocean South of Boston on a small plateau about 150 feet above sea level. Should the ocean level rise 25 feet, the Atlantic should make its way inland a bit. With a lot of luck, my home might be prime oceanfront property with a spectacular 125 foot high view of the shore. I could do worse.-Bill.

        OR, that leaves a lot of folks from what was Charlestown looking up at your house shining in the long rays of dawn, high on the bluff… getting PO’d… ;]

        That could be problematic. It’s all fun and games until they swing wide and flank you.

        “But wait! All the glacial melt is fresh water. A lot of no-halide water could turn off the Gulf Stream conveyor belt and freeze out the entire northeast and Western Europe. Then, instead of having my beachfront little paradise, My home could be buried under 2 miles of ice sheet, leaving me to roam the frigid surface trying to dodge the polar bears while I’m hunting walrus and seals.-Bill.

        I’m focused on the rate of change and therefore the *impact* on political and social structure. Whether climate-change causes mega-storm generated flooding, or a flash-freeze causing power-outs and subsequent famine, the result is the same: people stampede and migration-fighting breaks out.

        “What to do? What to do?”-Bill.

        Yes. That is the question. To solve that issue and not become its victim we have to ask and stay alert… OR, we can just keep shuffling up the ramp, let the gates lock, and wait for the hammer to drop.


        • ozone August 3, 2014 at 9:47 pm #

          I can see you’re being cheeky here, so I’ll respond in kind as to ‘what to do’.

          My well-considered advice for you and yours would be: Sit. Wait. Do nothing. Be hopeful.

          That should do ‘er! 😉

        • Janos Skorenzy August 4, 2014 at 12:58 am #

          Rising sea levels may cause Whites to flee South Boston and invade Jewish areas such as Newton and Brookline. Meanwhile Blacks and Hispanics continue their incursion into Roslindale, West Roxbury, and points west. You may well be trapped between Water, Ice, and Fire.

  115. MisterDarling August 3, 2014 at 3:32 pm #

    Meanwhile, in the world of NATO-backed ‘nation-building’;


    “okay… so, yeah. How’s that going?”

    Yes, I’m being facetious again.


  116. ghostunit August 3, 2014 at 4:34 pm #

    Mr. Kunstler, I’m a fan of yours but I see that you have some sort of personal attachment/investment on Israel which keeps you from keeping a distance and seeing what is happening for what it is.

    You CAN’T look at this just from what has been happening the last two weeks and reduce it to “they shot me, it is my right to shoot back”.

    The truth about it is that the Israelis wanted the land and they took it. I am not talking about the original borders, see how they have expanded over time:


    Now the problem with taking lands that are neither yours not empty is: what do you do with the natives? if this were a couple centuries ago you would just slaughter the natives and put them in reservations, then take the desirable land for yourself.

    But this is the 21st century where there is a camera in every cellphone and youtube and bleeding-hearts lurking everywhere and you just CAN’T do that anymore.

    Which brings us to the current, seemingly perpetual stalemate.

    Israel has displaced and stuffed these 1.7 million people into a tiny open-air prison measuring 20×5 miles. People with one of the highest birthrates in the world.

    No matter what Israel does, it’s not going to change those numbers. Even if they killed a hundred thousand, so what? the trend won’t change

    I am not a very good writer so instead I’ll link to these two articles (written by similar old white curmudgeons) which look at things coldly and show the underlying ugliness that neither side wants to see:



  117. nsa August 3, 2014 at 8:50 pm #

    Darling and Beanie,
    Here are the known facts. 15,000 years ago New England (along with all of Canada, Great Lakes, Pac NW) was covered by a 1 mile thick ice sheet. This sheet melted away resulting in a sea level rise of about 400′. In the last 150 years, only 1′ of rising sea level has resulted from more ice melting. This is some kind of problem? Al Gore bought a mansion in CA with low bank ocean frontage…..apparently Ozone Al isn’t worried much worried about rising sea levels so why should you be?

  118. ghostlimb August 3, 2014 at 8:57 pm #


    • ghostunit August 3, 2014 at 10:18 pm #

      Excelent article, and a world of difference from Kunstler’s.

      There is so much to talk about, instead of Kunstler’s “they be shootin’ so we be shootin’ back!” simplification of the situation.

      For example, from the article:

      “…..By the way, most of them are not ethnic Israelis – they’re ‘right of return’ Jews from Russia and Ukraine and Moravia and South Africa and Brooklyn who came to Israel recently with the notion that they had an inviolable (God-given!) right to the land, and that ‘Arab’ equates with ‘vermin’ – straightforward old-school racism delivered with the same arrogant, shameless swagger that the good ole boys of Louisiana used to affect. That is the culture our taxes are defending. It’s like sending money to the Klan.”

      • Glitch Mobiliou August 3, 2014 at 10:45 pm #

        Ironically, perhaps, the issue seems quite simple in essence.

        Just that Jim has maybe been focusing elsewhere, which I can understand and empathize with.

        Complexity says that no one can possibly know everything, which should go without saying.

    • Glitch Mobiliou August 3, 2014 at 10:36 pm #

      From the link:

      “Let me say, that, as you know I am an immigrant and child of Holocaust survivors… And I believe that creating the Jewish state of Israel was a historic mistake…The actions nation states take to assure their survival are usually in contradiction to any moral values that a religion might espouse. And that contradiction is now very evident in Israel’s behavior. Israel will destroy Judaism.”

      The state is merely one symptom of the human capacity for (over)complexity, thus lack of adequate control, thus lack of direct/adequate democracy.
      The state system could be seen as a ‘sociopoliticultural Fukushima’ (that also produces nuclear energy of course… like Fukushima… which has its own paradox as well, in it’s purported ‘peaceful-purposes’ deadliness and ostensible connection with weapons research).
      So it is not so much that ‘Israel will destroy Judaism’ but that the paradox of human complexity may be what ultimately does us in.

      “According to him, the dystopia of the Wachowski Brothers’ Matrix trilogy is already here: the technological-industrial ‘machine’ is already running the world, a world where individual humans are but insignificant little cogs with barely any autonomy. No single human being – neither the most powerful politician, nor the most powerful businessman – has the power to rein in the system. They necessarily have to follow the inexorable logic of what has been unleashed.”

      ~ G Sampath on John Zerzan

  119. Frankiti August 11, 2014 at 11:18 am #

    I suppose Israel must suffer from the “soft bigotry of HIGH expectations”. It is truly dumbfounding to witness so many people unable to process Israel’s predicament. A civilized, democratic, and otherwise peaceful country that is only a day’s march from Iraq and Syria-country’s currently engaged in feudal/medieval civil wars (complete with beheadings and crucifixions!) and right across a border from a seesawing military dictatorship and/or Islamic fundamentalist regime. The Israelis are fighting for survival and order in a region that abhors it. Israel can’t afford to take soft approaches. Any perception of weakness or vacillation is an invitation to their enemies. People fail to understand that many old-time Israelis would give a Texan hillbilly a run on his right-wing credentials. And why not? A generation before them, their parents, were nearly wiped off the Earth as the other “civilized” nations sat (almost too long) on their hands. They took one valuable lesson away from it; only they, themselves, are responsible for their survival. Period. Yet, Americans and Europeans are continually vexed by Israel’s fight for survival… and look where America and Europe are headed… a slow bleed of acquiescence.

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  120. Q. Shtik October 3, 2014 at 12:29 am #

    Hey Marlin,

    If you’re out there…my brother died suddenly about 2 weeks ago at his home in Florida. My wife and I are trying to take care of all the legal issues while clearing out his house in preparation for selling it. I came across a 12 gage shotgun (probably 50 years old and not fired in 45 years) and what I believe is a 22 target rifle and box of bullets. The shotgun has etched on it “Western Field” and model 30. The 22 seems to have no manufacturer name or markings of any kind on it. I don’t have any idea what to do with these guns. Any advice? Q. Shtik

  121. FincaInTheMountains January 15, 2015 at 7:15 am #

    The Great American Dead-end
    So, a lot of people think that the United States may, at any time they need, print any amount of money and therefore they cannot have any fiscal problems. That is not so.

    Postulate 1. The US can print exactly as many dollars as the rest of the world is willing to buy their debt – US Treasuries.
    Just for a long time it seemed profitable and there were a lot of buyers (the interest rate on US Treasuries was high enough), so the printing press worked almost without stopping, creating the illusion of an endless process. But then the rate was gradually reduced, because a huge debt to service at a high rate is too expensive. A series of crises showed that US securities are not as reliable as it seemed, and the ability and willingness of other governments to buy them drastically diminished.

    Therefore, attempts by Russia, China, Iran and other countries to withdraw from the dollar zone and stop buying US Treasuries scare Americans. The pyramid should grow and not to collapse.
    And that is why the United States had to go to all sorts of tricks such as quantitative easing programs. But this is not the point.