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Busybody Nation

I f anyone above a kindergarten pay-grade has figured out America’s vital interest in the Ukraine, it has not been reported — or even leaked from the foundering vessel that is the US State Department. In fact, when you consider the results, it’s hard to understand the rationale behind any recent US foreign policy endeavor. Mr. Putin of Russia summed it up last week, saying, “Anything the US touches turns to Libya or Iraq.” Vlad has a point there, and what he left off the list, of course, was Ukraine, which entered the zone of failing states a few months ago when the US lubricated the overthrow of its previously-elected government.

What complicates things is that Ukraine is right next door to Russia. For many years it was even part of the same nation as Russia. Russia has a lot of hard assets in Ukraine: pipelines, factories, port facilities. Because they were recently part of the same nation, a lot of Russian-speaking people live in the eastern part of Ukraine bordering Russia. The casual observer from Mars might easily discern that Russia has a range of real interests in Ukraine. Especially if the central government of Ukraine can’t control its own economic affairs.

The US claims to have interests in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and Libya. These nations are respectively 11,925, 11,129, 10,745, and 10,072, miles away from America — not exactly neighbors of ours. All of them, one way or another, and partly due to our exertions, are checking into the homeless shelter of failed statedom. Afghanistan was, shall we say, a special case, since it was being used thirteen years ago explicitly as a “base” (al Qaeda) for launching attacks on US soil. But that was then. No other war or “war” in US history has lasted as long. And it remains unclear whether our presence there yet today is a “nation-building” project or a mere occupation, in the absence of some better idea of what to do.

President Obama has made noises about pulling US troops out of Afghanistan, but we’re still there. How is the nation-building project working out? With Mr. Osama bin Laden dead and in his watery grave, and the Islamic extremist action moved to other venues, how significant is Afghanistan’s role as a strategic base for Jihad?

How many educated, media-marinated professors in their Ivy League turrets can explain in one paragraph what the necessity of overthrowing Muammar Gaddafi was, exactly? Anyone remember? I suppose, like many actions in history, it just seemed like a good idea at the time. If the idea was to keep the oil and gas flowing to western nations — i.e. the “Carter Doctrine” —well, excuse me while I cough into my sleeve. Production is about one-eighth what it was before Mr. Gaddafi exited the scene. That really worked.

Then, of course, there is ISIS (or the Islamic State or the Caliphate), the most visible outcome of a decade of US foreign policy endeavors in Iraq and Syria. Good show, ladies and gentlemen! You have managed to give the world a political movement arguably more barbaric than even the Nazis. On Sunday, The New York Times stood back in breathless admiration for the accomplishments and skills of that organization in the headline: ISIS Displaying a Deft Command of Varied Media. Like a mad scientist in thrall to his own creation, the Times appears dazzled by the political Frankenstein monster we have loosed upon the world.

Considering all the current mayhem in the Middle East, and the potential for deadly mischief from it spreading even into the US and western Europe, do we really have any business hassling Putin and Russia about its feckless, floundering next-door-neighbor, Ukraine? In fact, is any other nation in a better position to prevent Ukraine from descending into full-blown failure? Why don’t we just shut up and mind our own business?

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James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

304 Responses to “Busybody Nation”

  1. Smoky Joe September 1, 2014 at 10:19 am #

    Jim, while I agree that the rise of ISIS is largely the outcome of stupid US policies. It took Bush’s swaggering & Cheney’s lies + Obama’s bumbling drone-strike approach to generate this toxic mix of media-awareness and brutality.

    So, what DO we do with these fellows now?

    The nature of jihadism is to find a failed state, bring in international volunteers, train them, and send them home. Perhaps our US police state, with all its strutting paramilitary cops and DHS people, could stop US citizens at the borders. Perhaps not.

    ISIS needs a good destroying, but their ideology will pop up again elsewhere. What do you think we can do, if anything, to combat their ideology? Staying home and taking selfies, while watching reality TV, has not done much good.

  2. Jamyang September 1, 2014 at 10:21 am #

    Forget it. The U.S. will neither shut up nor mind its own business. Our genial commander-in-chief continues to play the geo-political game, and he epitomizes the effort to maintain the status quo and ignore what is most existentially in our long term national interest. That is, resource depletion and inevitable scarcity in the face of climate warming exacerbated by staying with the fossil fuels. Would that we concerned ourselves with this country and our neighborhood, and perhaps there is a future as globalization dies out and we are forcibly returned to the sanity living locally and being in touch with the nature of life and things.

  3. Neon Vincent September 1, 2014 at 10:22 am #

    When I compiled last Monday’s news from Reuters for a summary on Daily Kos, it summed up as War, Death, and Destruction. The most- international stories hit every hot spot you mentioned in your essays this week and last–Ukraine, Iraq, Israel–except for Libya. What got the page views instead was Ebola. People find an end-of-the-world pandemic that acts like The Red Death from the short story by Edgar Allen Poe morbidly fascinating. It was really easy to find a graphic of the Grim Reaper to illustrate the news. Looks like he (and his buddy The Red Death) are going to be very busy for the foreseeable future.

    As for ISIS, we were sold on a war in Iraq with Al-Qaeda 11 years ago. Back then, that didn’t exist. Now, we have it. Fact imitating fiction, anyone?

    • rapier September 1, 2014 at 10:34 am #

      Our interests in those far off places has been described as creating an Empire of Chaos. Chaos serves to make Americas power and wealth increase on a relative basis. Most of those in the know understand that on an absolute basis that prosperity has peaked but the rich and powerful are so rich and powerful more serves no purpose. In the end it is relative wealth and power they seek so seeing the world go down faster than us is a perfectly acceptable strategic goal.

      I doubt that most of our policy elites think of it in that way but rather think in terms of freedom and free markets and all that grade school primer stuff but you can be certain that salted among the willingly naive policy hands and their PR army are genuine real politic ones who embrace the Empire of Chaos.

      • Being There September 1, 2014 at 11:07 am #

        Ding, ding, ding—-You sir, are correct. This is not about the US being stupid or nosy.

        As I often say, It’s the war economy, stupid.

        War and bubblisish is what we’ve got exported around the world.

        We are actually no longer a modern nation state, we are moving into a global neofeudal system where there won’t be a middle class, but wage war to keep the market share up for private contractors.

        Do you see Haliburton and others suffering? Is the tax payer paying through the nose while the top 1% clean-up?

        The system is an inverted communist system where the taxpayers bail out the corporations and banks no matter how many laws they break or how much waste and destruction they create.

        Let’s just say that if we know 100 Americans went to the ME to fight with ISIS, how come we’re gonna let them back in? Well the private security mushrooms which sprouted on untold $$$$ since 911 need the business.

        The model is Milton Friedman on steroids. More false flaggies, Please. That’s how you destroy the constitution while getting the sheeple to beg for it.

        OK just to ignite some memory cells, remember the Neocons who want no competition to US hegemony started funneling in money to decouple the Ukraine from Russia 10 years ago through NGOs to the tune of $5Billion.


        Cargill has a stake in the agricultural part of the Ukraine to sell non GMOs to China,

        Hunter Biden and Kerry’s sons friend now have cushy jobs with natural gas co, Burisma Holdings, mmmhmmmm.

        Nosinc personal, just about the money, my friends.

        How many will have to die because a small handful of people that will buy up big tracts of real estate and all other assets so they can own everything?

        • Janos Skorenzy September 1, 2014 at 3:23 pm #

          And why does someone want more money than he could ever spend in a hundred lifetimes? Because he can. Because it expand his sense of being by being everywhere and over so many. For the power in other words. So yes, it is the economy – but only a means to this end. Marx was wrong to thing material things are ultimate. Once the Global Elite are firmly in power, they intend to cut back everything and radically reduce the world’s population. Are you sure you’re not fighting your own friends?

      • ozone September 1, 2014 at 12:15 pm #

        Nicely done, rapier; thrust home!
        Applying the proper saltings of cynicism clarifies the clusterfuckian broth, doesn’t it?

        War/”war” means profits for certain entities who in turn use their vast wealth and influence to buy the political system that will always bend the knee to their specific interests.


        It’s also instructive to take a peek at the Obama administration’s “response” and “punitive actions” following the wholesale poisoning of the Gulf of Mexico by one of their large sponsors, BP (the green “beyond petroleum” -chortle- corporation).

        Answers are all hiding in plain sight for those with the stomach to look.

        • K-Dog September 1, 2014 at 12:45 pm #

          But does having the stomach to look at the answers include insight that fog of chaos will condense into a warlord with nuclear weapons who has the stomach to use them? To some it’s all too cool and all they want to do is join up. Good job Dronie, that kind or reaction.

          The warlord with nuclear weapons wont be the IS. Reason, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

          They won’t be around long.

  4. Greg Knepp September 1, 2014 at 10:29 am #

    As I commented last week, our primary export seems to be sociopathic behavior. As a nation we muddle along, but, like Typhoid Mary, we are carriers – inciting other peoples to savagery. I’m not certain what it’s all about – the causes, motivations and the like – but the pattern is unmistakable.

    I like Putin’s observation on the whole deal; I’d not heard it before.

    Many thanks, Mr. Kunstler, for you excellent work!

  5. K-Dog September 1, 2014 at 10:34 am #

    A political movement arguably more barbaric than even the Nazis.

    Perhaps, but that statement remains arguable, I’d say dead wrong until the Islamic State kills several million people, pun intended.

    As a basic principle a tragedy is a tragedy regardless of how many die. It is the mark of a higher thought pattern not to compare human deaths directly like sums of money are compared. That I applaud. If a million die it is the same tragedy repeated a million times. Yet taking the basic principle too far, a mark of prejudice.

    Brutality is not a matter of potential but expressed action. It is a simplistic overstatement to compare the Islamic State and the Nazis. As bad as they have been the Islamic State has not yet approached Nazi brutality. That will take a longer time, they have the potential but must express the brutality first. Hopefully they are taken out before they get a chance.

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    • Janos Skorenzy September 1, 2014 at 3:25 pm #

      And by that calculus, the Nazis were far below the Russian and Chinese Communists.

  6. Cold N. Holefield September 1, 2014 at 10:36 am #

    was Ukraine, which entered the zone of failing states a few months ago when the US lubricated the overthrow of its previously-elected government.

    Ukraine has been a failing state since its independence from the former Soviet Union more than 20 years prior. Since then, it’s been one of the most corrupt states in the former Soviet sphere.

    To call any corrupt government regime in Ukraine “elected” is a joke, whether it was Western friendly or Russian friendly.

    I’m not taking sides in this fabricated conflict and debate. Both Russia and The West shouldn’t be meddling, but let’s face it, the amount of meddling is not equivalent. Putin has pretty much invaded unconventionally. The West has encouraged and goaded Ukraine but offered very little in substantial assistance.

    It’s possible to criticize Putin and not advocate for American intervention. If you put your head in the sand, do you really believe Putin would just stop at Ukraine without some form of resistance from The West?

    Using the argument that “what complicates things is that Ukraine is right next door to Russia. For many years it was even part of the same nation as Russia” serves as a basis for irredentism. The same argument can be applied to a de facto invasion and destabilization of all the former Soviet bloc states.

    Of course, the rebuttal to that would be Putin isn’t mad — he wouldn’t do such a thing. Maybe not, but what if he does? Where would your red line be, if you have one? What if he goes for Poland after demolishing Ukraine and picking up the pieces? Would that be a red line? I’m not sure NATO has one. I seriously believe if he went after Poland once he’s accomplished destabilizing Ukraine entirely, NATO would back down and let him have it.

    We’ll see. The next five to eight years will be very interesting. If only we had a Chrystal Ball.

    Chrystal Ball Persuasion

    • Helen Highwater September 1, 2014 at 12:27 pm #

      You say you’re not taking sides, but you seem to have bought into the media propaganda that Russia has “invaded” Ukraine. So far there is not a single shred of evidence to prove this. And it isn’t Russia that recently destablized Ukraine (or rather made it more destabilized than it already was) it was the US which admitted funneling $5 billion to “pro-democracy” efforts in Ukraine and then supported the overthrow of its democratically-elected government earlier this year. That sounds to me like rather substantial assistance to me. Dmitry Orlov, who is a former Russian citizen, has a very good take on what would actually be happening in Ukraine if Russia had invaded and also a good take on why Russia is not interested in taking on a failed state. And personally I don’t think Russia really wants to expand its territory and recreate the USSR in some fashion or other. That is just more media hype to get people to allow the military-industrial complex free reign to continue making huge profits.

      • Janos Skorenzy September 1, 2014 at 3:29 pm #

        Read Dugin. Putin wants his own Global Order. He has been very canny to frame it in traditional garb, making Russia the ally of all those appalled by Gay/Tranny friendly Oceania. Do you want to be ruled by Pussy Riot or those who who put Pussy Riot in prison? Sane people opt for the latter.

        • Subvert September 3, 2014 at 12:17 am #

          “Do you want to be ruled by Pussy Riot or those who put Pussy Riot in prison? Sane people opt for the latter”

          I don’t opt for false choices in any form. Sane people opt for independent thought and action free of coercive state apparati. Who says these are the only options available? False choices are the specialty of control systems: god or satan, dem or repub, government control or chaos, bud or bud light. False choices, all.

          Being an anarchist I have the crazy notion that people have the ability to govern their own affairs as our ancestors did for 3.5 million years..until 10K years ago when Totalitarian Agriculture and “civilization (IE; Citification as “civis” = city) took over and the food and all other (formerly abundant) resources were locked up and rationed out on a pay as you go basis.

          Screw that. The biggest problem mankind and in turn, the entire Community of Life on this planet faces is humankind’s stoopid paradigm of domination. The tide is turning and people are waking up to their true choices, but unfortunately, it’s not happening fast enough to save us or our brothers and sisters in the plant and animal kingdoms. The only way to change our paradigm back to one that is sustainable on this living island in dead space is to go back to our primal roots and examine the paradigm that once worked perfectly but was corrupted.

          Might I suggest that you read Daniel Quinn’s “Ishmael” trilogy? It’s a good education on how “WE” became who we are as a global society and how the power hungry took over. For more detail I would suggest Rianne Eisler’s “The Chalice and The Blade”. The roots of the Control System go back 10K years and Eisler lays out the archaeological and anthropological evidence in a clear narrative pointing to our freedom, if we choose to embrace it.

          Just to clarify, for those who think Anarchism means angry young men throwing Molotov Cocktails, Anarchism is Not the absence of RULES; it is the absence of RULERS. Big Difference! The rules in a sane society are voluntarily and communally agreed upon and adhered to for the benefit of all via an understanding of mutually beneficial, cooperative, interdependent relationships, not arbitrary scribbles on paper by corrupt strangers 3000 miles away that you are forced to obey under threat of coercion and violence. The entire Community of Life, plant and animal, works on anarchistic principles and you don’t see them waging wars for profit or destroying the planet for deluded ego gratification. Anarchy is the original social structure for man and animal and Animism is the original religion (a fact-based belief in the Fire of Life, not wrathful anthropomorphized deities in the sky.) It’s time to get back to our sane roots, good people. You belong to YOU, and none other.

    • abbybwood September 3, 2014 at 12:42 am #


      You call “encouraged and goaded Ukraine” by the U.S.but “offered very little in substantial assistance” a reality when the United States and NATO completely orchestrated the entire coup??!

      Victoria “Fuck the EU!” Nuland was handing out doughnuts and coffee and God knows what else to any able bodied protestor/neo-Nazi who would venture onto the square to protest the then oligarchical Ukraine government!

      I seriously wonder how many YEARS this operation was in the making?

      I do not believe that Obama and Biden and Nuland and Samantha Powers and the rest of the cabal just suddenly thought, “Hey! Biden’s son has a big business deal in East Ukraine and there’s that stupid pipeline Putin has invested in….that needs to be changed. We can do a BETTER pipeline deal with US interests, and gee whiz, a few missile sites in Ukraine wouldn’t be a bad idea to keep the bear in his cave…, eh?”

      This whole scheme had to be hatched probably five years ago. This is Georgia Part Deux.

      When Gen. Wesley Clarke went to visit the Joint Chief of Staff office at the Pentagon shortly after 9/11 he was met by a general who said, “Something strange is going on. We are about to go to war against Iraq.” Clark asked “Why?” The general said, “I don’t know…”.

      Then another two weeks later Clarke went back to the Pentagon and was handed a memo by a general that had just come down from the top brass. He handed it to Clarke and Clarke says, “We are going to take out seven countries in five years….Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Iran.”??

      I guess since then they’ve added “Ukraine” to the list (NATO or U.S…..same difference).

      This reality game of “Risk” can get very ugly very quickly.

      Leading up to the big NATO pow-wow the MSM (cough!) should be asking why the Dutch government is refusing to release the black box recordings form Malaysia Flight 17 that was shot down over the Ukraine killing 298 human beings :


      If you asked the average person on the street today who shot down that plane most would say, “Russia!”. Good propaganda that!

      We need the truth about how that plane was shot down. Russia, the United States, Great Britain, Malaysia, the Netherlands and probably more intelligence agencies world-wide know the truth.

      The rest of us also have a right to know the truth.

      And so long as I’m here, might as well add a bit more information regarding IS and the Ukraine:


      • Being There September 6, 2014 at 9:55 am #

        According to the literature I’ve been reading this operation is a Ten year one, using NGOs to make it happen. $5 Billion over 10 yrs.

  7. sprezzatura September 1, 2014 at 10:36 am #

    I deplore the invasion of a small nation like Ukraine, by a big bully like Russia. However, consider the reality:

    [1] Ukraine is run by a bunch of thugs & thieves. Ukraine is not paying its gas bill to Russia. Ukraine owes Russia a couple of billion $.

    [2] The pipelines that run from Russia, through Ukraine, are vital to keep the gas flowing to Europe, and the cash flowing to Russia. There are alternative pipelines, but they are not sufficient.

    [3] If Russia were to cut off gas deliveries to Ukraine, the latter could easily siphon off gas, or cut off the gas altogether, thus extorting Russia.

    Can you blame the Russians for wanting a more active role in the administration of Ukraine?

    • Petro September 1, 2014 at 10:51 am #

      So one would think, logically, that the U.S. would support efforts to stabilize the Ukrainian situation—whether those efforts came from Russia or not—to keep the precious fluids flowing. Do they think the U.S. could fill the gap? I just see embarrassing, self-righteous, hypocritical posturing from Washington.

  8. Steven W. Maginnis September 1, 2014 at 10:39 am #

    After 9/11, we (that is, Congress) should have declared war on Afghanistan – even if it meant legitimizing the Taliban government of the time – and fought to rid that nation of al-Qaeda and the Taliban like we fought to rid Germany of the Nazis. Speaking of which, if we had merely sent special forces to Berlin to throw out the Nazi high command and put a friendly government in charge there but left the Nazis free to roam in the rest of Germany, with the U.S.-backed chancellor being little more than the mayor of Berlin, would that have meant victory? No. But, substitute Afghanistan for Germany, substitute the Taliban for the Nazis, and substitute Hamid Karzai for a pro-American leader in Berlin, and that’s how we conducted the war in Afghanistan. We should have focused on eliminating the al-Qaeda/Taliban threat there and NOT bothered with Iraq. We could have gotten bin Laden sooner, possibly gotten al-Zawahiri, and left Afghanistan earlier after a new government – not necessarily a democratic one – had been in place. The only wrinkle is that two days before 9/11, bin Laden rubbed out the very anti-Taliban rebel who could have united the country. But even the war I think we should have waged would have worked out better than the war we actually did wage. IMHO.

    • Janos Skorenzy September 1, 2014 at 3:57 pm #

      Ah yes, why not nuke Mecca right? We (meaning you Neo-Cons) need a final solution. Otherwise they’re going to keep coming at us. And it so easy since (strangely) “we” import them by the million. Can you imagine allowing Germans to immigrate here during WW2?

    • abbybwood September 3, 2014 at 12:51 am #

      We should have declared war on Saudi Arabia!

      15 of the 19 hijackers had Saudi passports!

      But what did we do?

      We flew all the Bin Laden family and other Saudi royalty who had been slumming at the Ritz in NYC and LA home when the rest of the United States air traffic was frozen!

      Never did find out who approved that!

      Now here we are with ISIL, which is being funded by elements within Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar, cutting off peoples heads and forcing small children to parade around the square holding them!

      Not TOO traumatic!

    • Subvert September 3, 2014 at 1:18 am #

      Both wars you mention and ALL wars in fact, are nothing but money making opportunities for the rich and power grabs for their deluded politician puppets. American banks and corporations have funded and supplied both sides of every conflict for the last 200 years. And before that it was the Empire du Jour doing the same. “War is a racket, always has been…” (Maj. General Smedly Butler, USMC) His essay “War is a Racket ” is online to read for free and shows that the Disaster Capitalist scheme goes waaaay back to the Righteous Glory Days of Murkuh. Nothing new here folks, move along…

      Chasing bogeymen is the game the elite wish the public to play, don’t buy the star spangled hype; patriotism is just racism with a flag. After 9/11 WE (the people) should have recognized 3 controlled demolitions when we saw them and publicly crucified those who perpetuated them. It would have made a great pay per view event! (3 buildings crashed into their own footprints with two planes? What a coup! I guess that dying man on dialysis in an Afghan cave could defy physics from afar, as well as grow an impressive set of whiskers) I know that JHK is “immune to conspiracy theories” but this is fact: those buildings could not have come down the way they did, as fast as they did and certainly not 3 with 2 planes without um…assistance, shall we say.

      The science is all out there for anyone with the intellectual, moral and emotional grit to examine it. In Mein Kampf, Hitler alluded to “a lie so colossal that no one would believe that someone could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously.” Translation: The Big Lie is easier to sell than the small one because most people don’t have the moral and emotional fortitude to even imagine that their “democratically elected representatives” (yeah, right) could pull off such a lie with a straight face. Sound familiar? My, my, such adorable loyalty to complete strangers! What a trusting lot we societally conditioned apes are. No wonder we’re in the mess we’re in…sheep are kept by thier owners to be sheared! Trust is reserved for those we know personally and trust via experience. Glad-handing strangers don’t meet the mark in my book, nor can they or a dusty document, magically transform a bunch of strangers into a united “WE.” There is no “WE” but your close knit Tribe, if you’re lucky enough to have one. Momma said not to talk to strangers, let alone believe them!

  9. Ben Franklin September 1, 2014 at 10:44 am #

    I’m surprised you haven’t made the Sevastapol/Tartus link.

    Many facets including BRICS versus TPIP, NATO’s need for dominance, and GAZPROM. As you probably know the US is furiously building CNG ports. What thread can one spin from multiple spinning wheels?

  10. Ben Franklin September 1, 2014 at 10:46 am #

    ” What thread can one spin from multiple spinning wheels?

    In a word: PETRODOLLAR

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    • ozone September 1, 2014 at 12:58 pm #

      Bang! Got it in one, Mr. Franklin.
      I smell desperation to maintain the status quo in the air; thus all the insane destabilization efforts. (Worth every petro-penny) Keeping the indispensable [free-money-printing scam] nation indispensable is grueling conflict-by-proxy work.
      “Cry “Havoc!” and let slip the spooks and think-tank propagandists!”

      • Ben Franklin September 1, 2014 at 3:37 pm #

        Hmm. Why is it necessary to log-in twice in one day?

        As you say it is rather apparent what the diddling breaks down to.

        But I continue in a mystified state as to why Jim, who is jacked into economics and financials of a domestic nature, seems to miss the hand writing on the wall.

        ‘Mene, mene, Tekel and parsin’

        • Janos Skorenzy September 1, 2014 at 3:59 pm #

          Shadrach, Meshak, and Abdenego.

          • abbybwood September 3, 2014 at 1:02 am #

            Translation please?

  11. Walt Hess September 1, 2014 at 10:47 am #

    I think the US and EU are involved in the Ukraine for two reasons.

    1. To create new “investment opportunities” for western bankers via the IMF and the pliable (corrupt) Ukrainian government’s administration. Essentially, a hostile takeover. Seize assets and resources and privatize them, cut social services, cut pensions and wages to the advantage of bond holders and investors. In other words, the full austerity treatment like Greece, Spain, et al.

    2. Intimidate Russia and thwart its influence in the Euro zone so it will not be a direct competitor to the West and the status quo.

  12. noel bodie September 1, 2014 at 11:01 am #

    Busybody nation, indeed. IMHO the invasion of Iraq will be seen as the GREATEST mistake in US foreign policy EVER. The gift that keeps giving…now in the form of ISIS. Strangely an answer to this blunder may be seen in the film AVATAR which shows in one scene the corporate/military complex sitting elbow- to-elbow in the command room waging war on the natives to extract resources.

    • Being There September 1, 2014 at 11:09 am #

      No mistake. It’s about the money.

      And No they don’t give a rat’s ass about you.

  13. drewkeeling September 1, 2014 at 11:08 am #

    Ukraine is indeed a long way from America, and from its urban sprawl.
    America’s vital interest in Ukraine now is roughly similar to its interest in the Sudetenland in 1938. That is to say, for most practical purposes, nil, EXCEPT that we today have available the lesson of 1938: appeasing powerful dictators bent on expanding their empires, by swallowing up other countries using any means they can get away with, amounts to saving a bit now and paying big time later. This week’s blog suffers from the same sort of misperceived dilemma widely uncritically and incorrectly assumed in 2003: that our only available options are to go on an immediate ill-planned and ill-advised invasion, or to do nothing. An above Kindergarten pay grade assessment might be that Putin is likely considerably more vulnerable to sanctions with teeth than Saddam was.

    • swmnguy September 1, 2014 at 11:32 am #

      Which Empire is expanding? Look at a map of NATO and a map of Russian-controlled territory since about 1989. Don’t start your view of history so recently and it all looks very different.

      • drewkeeling September 1, 2014 at 11:49 am #

        NATO is not an empire (East European countries willingly joined hoping this would help them stay OUT of the empire they had gotten away from in 1989-90), but Russia in 2013 versus the USSR of 1989 looks rather like Germany in 1937 vs 1914: trimmed down, resentful, and ripe for a bit of demagogic extremism and opportunistic aggression against its neighbors. A close parallel this certainly is not, but there is a similarity.

        • swmnguy September 1, 2014 at 12:07 pm #

          I see your point. I have no illusions about Russia. But I don’t share your view of NATO. I see NATO as a US cat’s paw. No doubt the various nations on Russia’s borders had clear motivations to join NATO and gain promised US protection from Russia. There are always reasons, often quite good reasons, to align with one Empire as opposed to another.

          What I haven’t seen is Russia’s “opportunistic aggression against its neighbors.” Georgia, Chechnya and now Ukraine are generally used as examples. But all three of those are problematic. All are areas previously under Russian/Soviet control, and all three took distinct aggressive postures against Russia. Georgia and Ukraine have had significant US inducements to antagonize Russia. Chechnya has always been troublesome, and the introduction of radical Islam revived a long-standing Russian problem.

          Of course Russia’s hands aren’t clean nor are its motives pure. I’ve seen Russia using all methods at its disposal to defend what it sees as its interests on its borders. I have not seen Russia going beyond its near neighborhood with force, nor threatening anyone not actively threatening Russia’s declared and long-standing interests.

          Not that I would want to live near Russia, particularly not with Putin at the helm. But Georgia wouldn’t have been invaded had they not solicited Israeli advice and vague US promises of defense, and then moved into the disputed regions. Everything about Chechnya was nasty and as far as I know, remains so. Ukraine wouldn’t be at war without the US role going back to before the “Orange Revolution” and the well-noted cookie party in the Maidan.

          Russia’s a mess and a nasty one at that. I don’t see that any of their violent responses would have happened without a good deal of outside provocation, however.

  14. Being There September 1, 2014 at 11:13 am #

    Now for something completely different.

    Naomi Klein of The Shock Doctrine is putting out a new tome about how this form of capitalism is in a war against nature. AND GUESS WHAT?
    We’re gonna lose.

    This Changes Everything
    Capitalism Vs. The Climate


    [The way to beat Vladimir Putin is to flood the European market with fracked-in-the-USA natural gas, or so the industry would have us believe. As part of escalating anti-Russian hysteria, two bills have been introduced into the US Congress – one in the House of Representatives (H.R. 6), one in the Senate (S. 2083) – that attempt to fast-track liquefied natural gas (LNG) exports, all in the name of helping Europe to wean itself from Putin’s fossil fuels, and enhancing US national security.]…….

    • beantownbill. September 1, 2014 at 12:20 pm #

      That would make no sense to me, strategically: Selling off our own limited natural resources to those who are not normally our customers, and spending yet more billions to build infrastructure that might never be used when the tenuous supplies of fracked NG run out in the next few years. And for what? It isn’t going to do irreparable damage to Russia. No, the only reasons I can see to pursue this course of action are to create new markets for the nefarious energy companies or to impoverish the US.

      • russ September 1, 2014 at 2:32 pm #

        “… to create new markets for the nefarious energy companies…”

        “…to impoverish the U.S…”

        Upon consideration, I would say you are “correct” and “correct”, sir.

        Well said.

      • Janos Skorenzy September 1, 2014 at 4:04 pm #

        Bravo. Making a profit and defeating your enemies is secondary to surviving. You can’t do either of these if you’re not here. Same with moral problems: they are for the living. As Jefferson said, survival is the first morality.

        In Hinduism, this is the doctrine of the 10th Man. Ten men crossed a difficult river and then counted to see if everyone had made it. In grief each counted only nine since being sincere liberals, they each forgot to count themselves.

  15. Cold N. Holefield September 1, 2014 at 11:17 am #

    I can’t be sure, but it appears the implication of this post is a form of isolationism, meaning America retract its overwhelming military and economic presence from the world at large and allow regional alliances to coalesce organically.

    But is that how things really work or will really work out? Obama has been criticized for sitting on his hands and doing nothing about any of these various conflicts and crises. He’s somewhat doing what this blog post implies — somewhat. And look at the result. The more America lays off the more conflict that ensues. The more chaos that reigns.

    By America taking the lead in the world for the past several decades and playing the world’s policeman, it’s grabbed a tiger by the tail. You let that tiger go, and there goes the world. Or so it seems. It’s a conundrum not easily solved when the various players/actors charged with resolving it are the very same ones filling the power void with chaos and discord.

    Does part of not being a Busybody Nation also include withdrawing all foreign aid including that which goes to Israel? Does it also include passing legislation that makes it illegal for foreign interest groups to lobby Congress? Does it include legislation making it illegal for any special interests to lobby Congress because that’s a direct violation of any truly democratic government? These are just a few of the components that have enabled America to be a Busybody Nation so if America isn’t to be one, it must address these enabling components. Otherwise, it’s just whistling Dixie.

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    • swmnguy September 1, 2014 at 11:35 am #

      The problem with the view that the US is acting tentatively is that, factually, the US is not doing that. The US is actively involved in every one of these overseas trouble spots, usually bankrolling and supporting the very agents causing the conflicts and crises. Prior to US involvement, overt and covert, these areas were more or less peaceful.

    • Janos Skorenzy September 1, 2014 at 4:08 pm #

      Review to the Monroe Doctrine. Hands off the Western Hemisphere, at least above central America. That should do it. We have a lot of work to do here at home. Then we expand into Space. The Earth cannot and should not be conquered by one group or ideology. You people make the Nazis look like pikers with your ambitions.

    • truthteller September 2, 2014 at 2:19 pm #

      I CAN be sure..this is Imperialist Holefield minimizing the destructive aspects of unipolar American imperialist rule (with junior partner Israel) simply because he wishes it to continue.
      Unmentioned is the American CIA funding and training of ISIS to “get” Assad. Unmentioned is the reckless Obama drone bombing across the Mideast which Obama in fact was warned was helping recruit for jihad the world over due to the killing of innocents.
      Unmentioned is the initial funding and training of jihad to oust the Soviet from Afghanistan…an occupation which did not threaten America the nation to begin with, only America the Empire.
      Yes, aid to Israel and Egypt must and should have been curtailed before the buy out of Egypt at Camp David.
      And further, the US could develop an economic autarky if it desired, and have declared a moratorium on ALL immigration, illegal and legal, two decades ago, to the benefit of the economy.
      All these steps would require the replace of the corrupt and venal Elite.
      It’s all a ‘conundrum’ to Holefield–if you ignore that his solution is a
      mixture of Russophobia, chauvinist and milodly phobic attitude towards China and continued inference that a world dominated by American imperialism might be flawed but on the other hand, any party opposing it is “filling the world with even worse chaos and discord.”
      It’s vertiginous circle meant to say “let’s do imperialism better, let’s not be ‘traitors’ to the Empire.
      Holefield is part of the problem, but not nearly a big a part as he would like to believe.

  16. swmnguy September 1, 2014 at 11:29 am #

    Here’s my theory. Poke holes in it at will.

    The US-led global system of money at interest, debt as money, and money as a commodity hit its peak 40 years ago and is collapsing due to its internal contradictions. For the system to function, there need to be infinite (always-expanding) markets, resources, energy and markets. We’re out of continents to discover and exploit, and everyone who can afford a refrigerator and has a place to plug it in already has one. The cheap-to-extract energy is gone. The only way to extend the timeline has been to make money abstract and infinite, but that brings its own negative consequences. The system collapses when people won’t take on more debt at interest, because that’s how money is created. Unless one thinks he will have more money next year than this year, he won’t take on debt if he has a choice. Real US incomes peaked 40 years ago; the switch from counting per-job income to per-household income, with two incomes where one used to do the job, has made it appear that incomes have merely stagnated.

    So, what to do? To actually fix the system, all the abstract debt must be repudiated. Looking at who is now considered rich due to owning all that debt, Fat Chance of that.

    With the workable option ruled out, the finance system is devouring itself. To keep it going requires a shift from expansionary thought to cannibalism.

    The US is pursuing a strategy of using all tools at its disposal to maintain global supremacy. If we can’t be stronger, we weaken all potential rivals. This includes China, Russia, and the EU. Note that all US interventions are either on the perimeter of those potential rivals, on top of deposits of strategic resources, or on the routes those resources have to travel to get to market. Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, the Balkans, Ukraine, Nigeria (Boko Haram suddenly got more proficient when we rubbed out Gadhafi), the Senkaku Islands where our cat’s paw Japan suddenly became aggressive; the list goes on.

    The strategy is to create violent chaos that occupies our potential adversaries’ attention and resources. The only party that can ever extract those resources is the one that can project significant military force anywhere in the world. We cultivate the worst, most violent, desperate and hated groups in each area to pry apart the social order. Our proteges can’t ever surrender or compromise because the horrified victims of their depredations would kill them on the spot. They make the perfect agents of death and chaos.

    Hence Al-Quaeda, ISIL, the Ukie Nazis, etc. To turn Ukraine into a smoldering dumpster fire on Russia’s doorstep is a strategic victory, and the fact that so much of Europe’s energy flows through there has the added advantage of putting a US-controlled knife at Europe’s throat. Same for Libya, for its oil production, the added bonus of chasing out the thriving Chinese investment in Libyan (and Sudanese) oil production, and Libyan instability prevents a pipeline north from Nigeria to Europe.

    So, there’s my theory. The US elites have decided that, to maintain their global hegemony in a world whose dominant economic model is failing due to easily predicted self-contradictions, they need to beggar all neighbors.

    • ozone September 1, 2014 at 1:22 pm #

      Now that would fit very handily with my overly-paranoid outlook, but I really do think there’s a goodly amount of solid reasoning to your argument. You might just have the very crux of the issue outlined… and very succinctly at that! Excellent.

    • Being There September 1, 2014 at 1:55 pm #

      You’ll get no argument from me.

    • russ September 1, 2014 at 2:46 pm #

      That seems to sum things up so well I really should bookmark this someplace.

      So if you cannot maintain your rule by strengthening yourself, you tear everyone else down to keep your place. That explains a lot – we might call it the the “King One-Eye” (I recall a blogger by that name) Strategy – ‘In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is King’.

      Only problem might be that many of the blind adapt to their handicap very well, and can function in a world of no light. To maintain his advantage, King One-Eye must have the lights on all the time.

      Hence Homeland Security, NSA, and various versions of the Patriot Act.

    • toktomi September 1, 2014 at 3:57 pm #

      “With the workable option ruled out, the finance system is devouring itself. To keep it going requires a shift from expansionary thought to cannibalism.”

      Yup! And not merely as an inevitable outcome of a flawed growth economy but for now, a designed strategy [see QE and the consumption of (not by) the lower and middle classes].

      Long term, of course, the strategy is for an orderly dieoff – “save the infrastructure”. Imagine not that the likes of Ebola, MERS-CoV, H7N9, H1N1, H10N8, et al are merely Kardashian distractions for the masses.

      But, alas, I still contend that animal populations do not die off gracefully. So, maybe a little crowd control legislation, propaganda, and activities might be in order to better “protect and serve”.

      …or so I’m thinkin’

    • the blame/e September 1, 2014 at 4:38 pm #

      I like your “beggar all neighbors” theory.

      I think we all forget that Ukraine was the former Soviet Union’s bread basket. Ukraine’s rich farmland was supposed to feed the whole evil empire. Under Communist style Collectivism Moscow essentially beggared the will of any Ukrainians to produce anything, much less grain. Thus were the great grain exports to Odessa from the US born.

      One of the greatest assets is farm land and the ability to feed yourself. This applies to a people, a country, and the neighboring countries, whose interest is for those peoples and that “Not To Be Named” country to fail.

      If all the great world wars were over land, and the next world war will be about resources, do you want to drive your car and starve, or do you want to ride you bike and eat?

      Basically, the only way the US isn’t a vast agricultural wasteland is if companies like Monsanto forcing their products into the earth by keeping industrial agriculture alive.

      That is an endgame in and of itself. We are already seeing the result of a hundred years of industrial agriculture in the poisoning of huge sources of drinking water from blue/green algae blooms in the Great Lakes from the run off of phosphates and nitrogen from fertilizers into our water supplies.

      Basically, capitalism is all about beggaring all neighbors for profits. Before that happens you declare war on them. If they cannot afford to go up against the most powerful army in history, then they are beggared, but good.

      Now, just add politics.

    • JL Eagan September 1, 2014 at 6:28 pm #

      I believe you’re right on the mark.


  17. beantownbill. September 1, 2014 at 11:49 am #

    Harken back to the days of 20th century Cuba. It didn’t contribute much to the world’s necessities and was known mainly for its fine cigars, it’s sugar and it’s corrupt, mob-affiliated high life. Yet, when Castro, an avowed communist took over, the US went berserk because The USSR established a base there in violation of the US’ unilateral principle of the Monroe Doctrine. The two blocs involved very nearly precipitated a nuclear war over this as recently as 52 years ago – well in the lifetime of millions of present day Americans.

    I bring this up because in the present Ukrainian hoo-ha, the same thing is happening, except the roles are reversed, and the US is perceived as the bad guy – even by many of its own citizens. You’d think we would remember when the Soviets were trying to extend their influence, but Americans’ memory apparently only extends back to the last tv program. Jim is correct in his analysis – let’s keep our noses out of others’ affairs.

    • BackRowHeckler September 1, 2014 at 1:39 pm #

      Bill, the Soviet Union was installing nuclear tipped missiles inside Cuba, pointed at us. That’s why we ‘went berserk’ as you call it.

      Anyway, how is the US involved in Ukraine? Do we have Divisions of Marines and Soldiers there? Is the 7th Fleet in the Black Sea? Is NATO massing an international Army in Kiev? The answer is no. It seems to me Ukraine is facing Russia alone.


      • Being There September 1, 2014 at 1:57 pm #

        No, Howler

        We don’t need to have our military in there when we have the Nazis there.
        We help them and we’re involved with ringing around Russia with ABMs in all their former satellite countries.
        Right now we’re only in it for the money—let’s see whether the Neocon we can win limited nuc war will win out.

        If I were a European—I wouldn’t like that very much.

        • BackRowHeckler September 1, 2014 at 2:35 pm #

          Howler? I think my post was rather low key.

          Maybe the Europeans will like it better with Russian Divisions in their backyard. I remember Dutch sailors busting my you know whats about American forces in Europe in the late 70s. I was thinking we should have left you ungrateful sonsabitches to the tender mercies of the Red Army, see how you have liked that. Of course now the Netherlands hardly exists and within a few years will be part of the Caliphate, which serves ’em right.

          Jim, on the subject of lengthy wars, battles in the Philippines lasted from May 1898 until the summer of 1916, with about 250,000 American troops engaged and 10,000 dead from all causes.


          • Janos Skorenzy September 1, 2014 at 4:14 pm #

            And American troops were shooting the natives for fun – one of the few salient points in Zinn’s bible of PC.

            You aint nothing but a Hound Dog, cryin’ all the time. Capitalism and Communism are mirror images of each other, both philosophies of power and expansion via economics. Capitalism tends towards the Brave New World model and Communism towards 1984, but both have both aspects. And Capitalism funded Communism so it is the senior partner.

  18. FincaInTheMountains September 1, 2014 at 12:00 pm #

    Ukraine adventure: Preventing Reindustrialization of Europe

    Any rationally thinking man understands that US are using current Ukraine government and its agents in Brussels to conduct war for full subjugation of Europe. Exactly that goal leads to a lot of efforts to demonize Russia and provoke it for direct armed intervention in Ukraine.
    Nobody could argue that thanks to the two World Wars that were mostly fought on European soil, the economy of the United States received a powerful boost and Europe became dependent on US.
    American strategists learned how to conduct wars of new generation, without using massive land armies, but nevertheless very destructive by applying financial-economic warfare. The goal now is destruction of European economy and full subjugation of Europe to American interests.
    New round of financial-economic warfare of US against EU was initiated by desire of leading European countries to start reindustrialization of their economies. During the period of 1980-2000 Germany, France and Italy (and others) were reducing productive capacity inside their own territory, transforming economy into so-called “Service Economy” as well as “Financial-Insurance-Real Estate” (FIRE) Sector.
    However, by 2010 it became clear that such policy has no future, and European politicians started talking about revitalization of industrial sector, which will create a threat to American domination.
    Any increase in production activity must be underwritten by increase in energy consumption. The Kyoto Protocol that was adopted on the insistence of US, but not ratified by them, was not sufficient to constrain coming growth of European industry.
    To interrupt European plans, American specialists in “Color Revolutions” organized several coups in Middle East where regimes mostly loyal to their European trade partners were replaced by radical Islamist groups hostile to European civilization. At the same time the American intelligence community keeps its influence (or at least attempts at keeping) with radical Islamists regimes.
    But the main energy flow to Europe is coming from Russia. The first attempt at disrupting the energy flow from Russia was attempted in 2006-2009 during so-called “gas wars”. Putting in power radical government in Ukraine capable at any time using anti-Russian rhetoric to shut down the energy flow from Russia to Europe was the main goal of Kiev’s coup of 2013.
    But the main success in sabotaging the European Economy was achieved by “Sanctions Wars” with Russia. Brussels was forced to join anti-Russian sanctions that lead to stagnation of European economy in general.
    Analysis of “Third Package of Sanctions” shows that its real goal is not to complicate the lives of Putin’s closest circle, but to guarantee technological backwardness of Russia in Oil and Gas exploration.
    European experts have already spoken – there is no alternative in the next 10 years to Russian gas. Sanctions create a clear threat not only to ability to increase transfer of gas, but even to maintain it on the current level. So Europeans with their own hands created conditions not to fulfill their plans to increase industrial output.

  19. Civility118 September 1, 2014 at 12:23 pm #

    I thought this in-depth July 26th article with maps summed up many, but not all, of the reasons well. It gets down to the nitty-gritty that the US wants to deliver gas to Europe and not compete with Russia.

    The Whole Ukrainian Crisis Revolves Around This Pipeline


    Additionally, we seem to think that fracking will be so profitable, even at the environmental expense, water quality and health to our communities, that we can become an exporter, with the bonus of preserving the shaky petrodollar.

    And then there’s the subliminally influenced, now middle-aged and older crowd in politics and media who grew up watching Rocky Squirrel & Bullwinkle Moose, fighting the villainous Russian Boris Badenov and Natasha Fatale, now re-creating and re-writing the scripts in real time…

    The Many Faces of Boris Badenov

    I didn’t really understand them as metaphors at age 5, but I do now, and they are hilarious – and insidious in their portrayal of “the other” during the Cold War, from evil Russians to the dull Canadian moose to sexism toward Natasha, and of course, Rocky as the American hero and savior, and finally our own proclivity for passing the buck, as in this one:

    The Best of Boris and Natasha #5

  20. FincaInTheMountains September 1, 2014 at 1:25 pm #

    Two systems are before the world;… One looks to increasing the necessity of commerce; the other to increasing the power to maintain it. One looks to underworking the Hindoo, and sinking the rest of the world to his level; the other to raising the standard of man throughout the world to our level. One looks to pauperism, ignorance, depopulation, and barbarism; the other to increasing wealth, comfort, intelligence, combination of action, and civilization. One looks towards universal war; the other towards universal peace. One is the English system; the other we may be proud to call the American system, for it is the only one ever devised the tendency of which was that of elevating while equalizing the condition of man throughout the world.

    Henry C. Carey, “Harmony of Interests”

    Carey a leading American economist and adviser to Abraham Lincoln, Harmony of Interests

    It seems that America our days is a reincarnation of British Empire, no wonder so many Brits on American TV.

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    • Janos Skorenzy September 1, 2014 at 4:17 pm #

      And the American System leads to the Hindoo system. How do I know? Because it is doing that. Maybe you don’t know over there, but we can just look out the window.

  21. lumbricina September 1, 2014 at 2:30 pm #

    By sticking your nose into the business of regions all over the globe, you can, in a manner of speaking, pretend that you have no domestic issues to address, and thereby, as Mr. K, so aptly puts it, do nothing.

  22. Karah September 1, 2014 at 2:33 pm #

    Any erudite person of letters should be able to tell you why it is important to keep ukraine on the defensive regarding the port in crimea from where the trouble stems. without dominance of said port, russia is landlocked. that fact has been the nations biggest achilles heal when it comes to wars and trade. another weakness it has is communism and the inability to conduct business with richer nations. its deal with china seems impressive on the surface, a big t at the end of whatever currency those two nations agree to use; however there is no guarantee that china will pay russia. russia hoped ukraine would pay and that did not happen and they actually had the money – check mr. chocolate factory who is now running the business of govt. putin cut his nose to spite his face. america is asked to be involved in matters having to do with western thought and trade. ukraine did not ask to be brutally turned on by its pitbull “neighbor” just like israel did not ask for it.

    all transactions need an independent third party as witness and advisor.

    that whole distance card jhk played is irrelevant. we are a global community and that will never change. should california care what goes on in washington d.c. anymore since they are over 2200 miles apart as the crow flies? ca is very different culturally speaking considering its liberal views on just about everything. all the states who legalized marijuana have shot themselves in the foot when it comes to integrating with just about every other business from banking to transport. what are they going to do when the fed comes to raid the growers? say myob?! let us not forget that the drug trade is firmly involved in what goes down in afghan considering they are the biggest providers of opium. jhk should be thankful he had access to the drug during all three of his major surgeries. of course, why should we care about that whole narrative? a major private concern we have no business knowing about. everyone is unique and has different medical experiences and we cannot compare each other when it comes to healthcare, it just leads to envy and suspicions – like people comparing their sex lives!

    as far as the media and sensationalism…even obama is tired of it.
    the world as we know it is not going to end because of isis,isil, etc.
    all those mislead youth in islam are hurting themselves the most. if they can not appreciate the countries from which they flee, like many other muslims, then good riddance. it makes for a bigger target to hit. flush all the radicals out asap along with all the dope pushers and takers.


    • FincaInTheMountains September 1, 2014 at 2:41 pm #

      “russia is landlocked” – where have you studied your geography?

      “another weakness it has is communism” – where have you studied your history?

      “inability to conduct business with richer nations” – do you mean with the biggest deadbeats in the world?

    • russ September 1, 2014 at 4:13 pm #

      We may all relax on one point – soon, given the wonders of climate change, all ports will be warm water ports and therefore open and accessible year round very soon. So even if you border the Arctic Ocean, you will not be landlocked. Whether or not you control the Crimea to get a warm water port on the Black Sea will be less and less important as time passes.

      Of course, a good deal of port infrastructure will need to be moved well inland – but – while there may not necessarily be a chicken in every pot, everybody gets a warm water port.

      Except for those folks in the expanding desert areas of the world. They get huge beaches.

      • Karah September 1, 2014 at 4:55 pm #

        i am very relaxed, thanks.

        “wonders of climate change” does not exclude the continuation of the four distinct seasons of the freeze thaw cycle. the north will always freeze up, have rough seas and make travel for humans difficult and expensive unless you are a seal. most humans do not live far from equator for practical reasons. russia just happens to have inherited a bunch of nasty tundra where no one else wants to live and do business. it is landlocked in regards to established a very profitable trade routes.

        politics determine the accessibility to any port irregardless of temp. we see this playing out now in eastern europe. the persian gulf and the u.s. gulf/canals were settled years before climate change and have survived climate change.

        access to the med sea is important. 38 million Egyptians depend on
        access to that body of water however polluted and overfished.

        soon the southern u.s. will need access to more large bodies of fresh water. kunstler directs attention to our med times three – the great lakes. despite the paranoia regarding algae blooms…that was a political maneuver benefitting soft drink companies – Nestle being the biggest recipient of peoples panic money. talk about nazis…their ceo is austrian and bent on owning the water rights to major springs all over the world and he has just about succeeded in doing that. so the next time you see someone lifting a bottle of drinking water, he sold it to them. heil wasser!!

    • FincaInTheMountains September 1, 2014 at 5:01 pm #

      1. Russia has second large port on the Black Sea, Novorossiysk :

      2. Russia has access to Baltic Sea: Kaliningrad and access from St.Petersburg

      3. Russia has large port in Pacific – Vladivostok.

      4. And finally, it has entire North Arctic Ocean and biggest fleet of nuclear-powered ice-breakers. That actually, have a huge potential as an alternate silk-route from China to Europe

      • Karah September 1, 2014 at 10:57 pm #

        oh thanks…wow…such well known ports of trade for whom?
        i do not hear many people talking about vladivostok…or hanging out by the black baltic seas absorbing their cultural heritage and many diverse peoples and museums and…oh…nice weather.

        and what do icebreakers need in order to propel themselves? right…fuel. it is a lot nicer to have the wind at your back then a noisy smelly gas guzzling engine. what future for trade! not.

  23. the blame/e September 1, 2014 at 3:12 pm #

    “Afghanistan was, shall we say, a special case, since it was being used thirteen years ago explicitly as a “base” (al Qaeda) for launching attacks on US soil.”

    You comment really smarts, not so much for what it says, but what it means.

    Take the same sentence. Just pull out Afghanistan and insert the United States of America.

    My own fully dysfunctional government considers itself to be a very “special case” as evident by what it says, does, and gets away with. “No country can do what the United States can do.” So says my president.

    For decades my country has been used as a terrorist base for launching wars, war-mongering, and baby killing that I, as a taxpayer (if only a revenue stream), never agreed to.

    And now that we see members of our own fully militarized police forces, like the ones in Ferguson, pointing their sub-machine guns at the people, screaming at the people, saying how: “I will kill you!” Does anyone doubt that the war on terror has been brought “home?”

    And exactly whose “Homeland” is it? We are working, we are laboring, for this?

    Who is going to come to the rescue of my broke, busted, and bankrupt country? Worse, where do the peoples of the world retreat to when the last America joins the whole world of evil?

  24. Poet September 1, 2014 at 3:21 pm #

    Okay, all of that is well and good, but WHERE IS THE EYESORE OF THE MONTH?!!! With the world disintegrating before our very eyes, we need something to make us smile and laugh out loud. Please, an eyesore for our amusement.

    • BackRowHeckler September 1, 2014 at 4:44 pm #

      look around your own town.

      There’s plenty of eyesores everywhere.

  25. Ben Franklin September 1, 2014 at 4:50 pm #

    Oh dear. More SHTF…http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-01/putin-celebrates-groundbreaking-russia-china-gas-pipeline-worlds-longest

    “Overnight, following a grand ceremony in the Siberian city of Yakutsk, Russia and China officially began the construction of a new gas pipeline linking the countries. The bottom line to Russia – nearly half a trillion after China’s CNPC agreed to buy $400bn in gas from Russia’s Gazprom back in May. In return, Russia will ship 38 billion cubic meters (bcm) of gas annually over a period of 30 years. The 3,968 km pipeline linking gas fields in eastern Siberia to China will be the world’s largest fuel network in the world.”

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    • Karah September 1, 2014 at 4:58 pm #


      • the blame/e September 1, 2014 at 8:27 pm #

        So? Well, for starters China cannot run its economy on coal. They are running out.

        I live in Bellingham, WA in the Pacific Northwest. American coal is being exported from Powder River, Montana through my state to be loaded onto ships in Vancouver BC, Canada bound for export to China.

        Why? Because our government is in deep debt owing trillions of dollars to the Chinese for helping us fund all these endless wars. The Chinese want to be paid back, in coal.

        The problem is that all the “light sweet” coal, the Anthracite has been taken out of the ground here in the US, and we are down to the Bituminous coal. At the rate the Chinese want us to export our coal to them Powder River expects to run out of their supply of Bituminous Coal in just 25-years.

        The other problem is burning Bituminous Coal does not deliver anywhere the BTUs that the good stuff did.

        When we run out of the Bituminous Coal in 25-years, then we start mining the Sub-Bituminous Coal. Each lower degree of coal is less energy efficient than the previous. Eventually, you end up just burning dirt.

        Gas can deliver all the BTUs you need to run an energy plant and Russia has a huge supply.

        And remember, Putin plays chess while the US plays checkers. If he can build a pipeline to China then he can offset the loss of income shutting of the supply of gas to Europe would cost.

        Remember, Putin plays chess while the US plays checkers. This pipeline is another nail in the coffin of the West, of Europe and the US.

        • MisterDarling September 2, 2014 at 12:49 am #

          Thank you blame/e.

          Excellent points about coal. All of them. Thanks for being so succinct..

          One comment though:

          “Remember, Putin plays chess while the US plays checkers.”-blame/e.

          I used to think that Vladimir was a chess-player. Based on what I’ve seen in the past 12 months, I might want to upgrade him: to GO player.

          He seems to understand things beyond the tactical.


    • Karah September 1, 2014 at 5:04 pm #

      i guess all those phantom middle-class people in all those ghost towns in china need gas to keep the buildings warm for themselves and their visitors…


      filed under propaGASda and “our dear leader”.

      now back to minding our own business and our pipeline that just got finished. mark one u.s. and zero for putin in the energy games.

      next up, hunger&thirst games.

      • Ben Franklin September 1, 2014 at 5:14 pm #

        Especially thirst games. Water being privatized means the air in our blue skies is in play.

    • FincaInTheMountains September 1, 2014 at 5:28 pm #

      What a shame. They could have made much better use of that money buying NetFlix or Apple stock.

    • Civility118 September 1, 2014 at 7:27 pm #

      @Ben: Thanks for that link. Interesting story and video. I’m not sure why you think it’s a SHTF situation, though. They all looked so happy, celebrating the start of the construction of the world’s biggest gas pipeline. From a purely human, non-political point of view, that’s amazing. Wouldn’t we be happy if we had the means and resources to do something like this here?

      As much as we like to think of ourselves as the center of the universe, why wouldn’t people in other countries want to do business with each other?

      • Ben Franklin September 1, 2014 at 8:06 pm #

        Thanks. re:. I’m not sure why you think it’s a SHTF situation,

        Snark is difficult on the innertubes. My point is the West is terrified of losing their gravitas. It’s all good except for US financial interests

        • Civility118 September 1, 2014 at 9:33 pm #

          Do you mean Wall Street, Big Banks, Big Oil, and the 1% who couldn’t care less about the rest of us?

  26. Vlad the Inhaler September 1, 2014 at 5:19 pm #

    You write well, Mr. Kunstler and, at the risk of sounding obsequious, your article is coherent, short and to the point yet covers most of the bases.

    For a longer treatment of the subject (and in reply to an article in the N.Y.T.), may I turn those interested onto the following.


    Old Hitchens nails it pretty well too.

    Best wishes all.

  27. Janos Skorenzy September 1, 2014 at 6:23 pm #


    Fighting Fatbergs far below the surface. And you thought your activities were just “private”. Look, if you want to be a Liberal Eloi, you are going to produce your opposite, the Morlock. Thus being balanced is a civilizational responsibility.

  28. alphie September 1, 2014 at 6:24 pm #

    In answer to your last question Jim, ‘Why don’t we [yes I suppose I’m guilty by association]….mind our own business?”. I think for the same reason people climb Mount Everest: it’s there.

  29. JL Eagan September 1, 2014 at 6:53 pm #

    Just before finishing up a note today for my own little blog, that I started yesterday, I came here to read the Monday installment from Kunstler, I was a little surprised to find that it was essentially the same subject as what I was finishing up, on the same day. But, then, it isn’t so surprising, I guess. It just shows that people are noticing what’s impossible to not notice if you have any grip on what’s happening.

    [The note from me is shown under the trackbacks/pingbacks.]

    One difference is noteable. I think Jim understated it a bit with the title (not a criticism). I went much further in calling it full blown megalomania, in fact, as said in the title, it almost goes into something more extreme, a hyper-megalomania.

    Thinking about the problems in all this, it’s impossible to avoid the problem compounding things, which is that between the official gummint propaganda, reality distortion, lies of omission, and just full out blatant lying, and the pathetic pseudo-news infotainment, many people can’t even begin to grasp what’s happening, in a variety of realms.

    It’s all made worse by the Team D versus Team R, Liberal vs. Conservative (whatever those words mean anymore), Left vs. Right (whatever those mean) circus of bipolar political disorder.

    Something I said in my note, repeated- People refer to Orwell’s 1984, but usually just go on about the whole repressive brutal police state in that world. What seems to get less attention in most references to 1984 is the way that people were so saturated with all the lying reality warp propaganda, whether they genuinely began to believe it, or just pretended to believe it to stay out of trouble and conform, that people lost the ability to even tell reality from lies and nonsense.

    Many people seem to be there, now.




    … and so on.


  30. Janos Skorenzy September 1, 2014 at 7:23 pm #

    Israel gears up for another land grab. Their evil is unceasing – yet there is never any talk of sanctions or blockades against them. The US pretends to oppose it of course.


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    • BackRowHeckler September 2, 2014 at 11:22 am #

      Big Land Grab!

      What? 1000 square Feet?

      They need some sort of perimeter anyway to keep the enemy at bay.

      Of course you’d like to see Israel overrun. By who? ISIS? Hamas? Kuds Force? Islamic Jihad?

      Ain’t gonna happen. Israel is not asking anybodys permission to defend itself.


      • Janos Skorenzy September 3, 2014 at 12:45 am #

        You’re a fan just like most Conservatives. The home team sucks so you root for a team from another city. You walk a narrow line between patriotism and treason.

        They should have taken Madagascar. And what’s her name should have been nicer to Hagar and Ishmael.

  31. FincaInTheMountains September 1, 2014 at 8:56 pm #

    The process of peace talks on Ukrainian situation has begun

    In Minsk, capital of Belorussia the next round of talks to find a peaceful resolution to SE Ukrainian situation has started.

    From Ukraine – former Ukrainian President Kuchma, from Russia – Zurabov(Russian ambassador to Ukraine), from EU Heidy Talyavini, from Donetsk – Purgin, from Luhansk – Karyakin.

    Some of the demands of representatives of SE Ukraine has been leaked to the press: immediate cease fire, recognition of special status of Donetsk and Luhansk regions within Ukraine, recognition of the status of Russian language in the region, amnesty to politicians and militia, recognition of militia as lawful law-enforcement force in the region, and in general following the Geneva convention on Ukraine between USA, EU and Russia.

    • MisterDarling September 2, 2014 at 12:58 am #

      “The process of peace talks on Ukrainian situation has begun”-FincaIn.

      Or it hasn’t – depending on what sources of ‘news’ you check. We’re still in the first flirtation with reality.

      Expect a week of mixed/conflicting messages.

      Certain people need to feel the increasingly ‘brisk’ nip of the evening air, before they finally come back to earth, take stock, then figure out how they’re going to be able to say” “It was all just a BIG *misunderstanding*…”

  32. HowardBeale September 1, 2014 at 8:59 pm #

    What if…everything the “Federal Government” has done, including essentially allowing–at least–9-11 to happen, has been done to increase oil prices in order to render U.S. shale oil profitable to extract…

  33. Kutamun September 1, 2014 at 9:56 pm #

    From The Daily Kos – “Crabbey Abbey”

    Right now, the US Dollar makes up 2/3rds of the worlds global reserve currency. This is because nearly every oil-exporting country in the world exclusively sells their oil in dollars, so nations are forced to hoard large amounts of the dollar.
    There are two countries that don’t sell their oil in the dollar: Syria, and Iran.

    If these two countries joined forces, got Venezuela on their side, maybe a few other countries, and then made an economic treaty with the BRICS nations, an acronym for Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa, to buy their oil in a currency other than the US dollar, the economy would collapse

    All countries in the world would send their massive hoards of the dollar back to the Fed in exchange for whichever currency replaces it. The value of the dollar would shrink dramatically and the Fed would be forced to take steps to shrink the money supply to stem massive inflation. The raising of the Federal Funds rate would mean that there would not be enough new loans created to pay off old loans (which is necessary, because there is always more debt in the economy than there is money, because money is created with interest attached, from the very beginning we are all indebted to a small cabal that sits behind the federal reserve). The defaulting of loans would lead to a chain reaction that would collapse the $700,000,000,000,000 derivatives market. In addition, the Fed wouldn’t be able to mindlessly pump money into the economy anymore such as with their current policy of quantitative easing.

    In 2001, Iraq began selling their oil in the Euro. We invaded.

    In 2010 Gaddafi proposed a new currency called the Gold Dinar to replace the dollar for oil sales. We bombed the shit out of his country and caused a regime change.

    Syria moved away from the Dollar in 06 and Iran in 08. That is what this is all about. There are other geopolitical objectives, sure, such as the pipeline that Syria signed with Iran instead of the US friendly Qatar, but the Petrodollar is the king. It is literally the only reason the dollar and US economy is stable. The entirety of the Western financial elite need the Petrodollar system and they are willing to go to war and kill millions to defend it.

    • MisterDarling September 2, 2014 at 1:24 am #

      Thanks for the Petro-Dollar angle. All true.

      Also consider; China has been closing bilateral currency-swap agreements with any nation that has an economic ‘pulse’ since 2005.

      They closed the deal with Japan, the UK and S. Korea last year, pretty much wrapping that operation up.

      Then recall how a number of decision-making processes were removed from the G7 and granted to the G20 – under pressure from BRICS-bloc nations.

      The BRICS are very serious about multi-polarity, and given the ultimately ineffective way that the strings are pulled by the last remaining ‘superpower’… They may achieve it.

  34. Robert Roth September 1, 2014 at 11:03 pm #

    Dear Jim:
    It kind of amazes me that someone who is so knowledgeable, and has taught me so much, on other matters can be as clueless as you appear to be on US foreign policy. A hint: Goodness has nothing to do with it. Noam Chomsky demonstrated – not argued, but showed, using public documents of various kinds – that US leaders since at least the end of WWII have been willing to risk (our) survival for the sake of their ability to boss the rest of the planet around. More lately, it has been shown that US interests in Ukraine are a combination of this will to power with coveting power as you write to well about it – energy, in terms of pipelines, etc., though I’m not sure to what extent this is separable from the the drive for hegemony I mentioned earlier. For a brief intro/overview, see http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/01/return-of-the-evil-empire/
    and http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/18/did-iran-just-knife-putin-in-the-back/. Mike Whitney and others have written more extensively on the energy politics of the matter, generally at counterpunch.org. As for ISIS, the US turned a blind eye to “allies” in the area funding them, and is now as usual stuck with the result. See Patrick Cockburn, also at the CounterPunch site.

  35. cowboy September 1, 2014 at 11:07 pm #

    Long time reader. And also enjoy reading all the responses. Don’t have anything to ad, but thought that you and some of the responders might enjoy seeing our cattle ranch’s web site. I don’t expect to sell any cattle here but thought reading about our infrastructure , rattlesnake fights and wildlife management would shed a new light on how some of us are already working” in a world made by hands”. I think we will be ready when what-ever-is-going-to-happen does happen. We welcome visitors if any of you ever get this far into the country. Web site address: collierdiamondcranch.com

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    • progress4what September 4, 2014 at 11:08 pm #

      ” I don’t expect to sell any cattle here but thought reading about our infrastructure , rattlesnake fights and wildlife management would shed a new light on how some of us are already working” in a world made by hands”. I think we will be ready when what-ever-is-going-to-happen does happen. We welcome visitors if any of you ever get this far into the country.” – cowboy –

      That’s a nice website, a good looking ranch, and some good looking bulls and cows, cowboy. I appreciate you posting. And yeah – you guys look pretty well positioned to survive in Texas if anybody does. If you’ve got decent land and good water, cattle represent renewable wealth and real wealth – not the digital and paper kind that emanates from DC and Wall Street.

      I’ve always had a soft spot in my heart for cows. My granddad had a nice little herd, and a real good bull. I’d help him as well as a kid could. And I’ve built at least a couple of miles of fence and done a little cattle work through the years helping neighbors and other relatives.

      So, I appreciate the invite to take a look at your place. I might just take you up on it if I ever get out that way again. I had an uncle in Port Arthur, but he passed away. And we’ve got family and friends on the Left Coast. But you are now the only person I “know” from Texas. And this led me to complete a mental exercise involving coming out to your place if zombies or some other Southeastern apocalypse forced me and my family to evacuate Georgia.

      We would put a lot of machinery on the road at first. And we’d be travelling with at least 9 people, including my wife, a couple of sons, a daughter in law, a girlfriend in law, a couple of little kids, and a 90 year old mother in law. We’d be in a SUV pulling a flat-bed trailer, my pickup, and a Jeep Wrangler. And, boy, could we leave with a lot of useful gear, from hand tools to power tools, come-alongs, wire stretchers, and an ATV.

      So we’d be heading west, post zombies, the 950 miles from my home town to your ranch. We could have driven it pre-zombie in, maybe, 16 easy hours – but we waited too late in this mental exercise. I guess it would take about a month to cover the distance, post zombie. We’d move along, trading gear for gas and food. We’d be lucky to arrive at your place with just the Wrangler. You’d be able to recognize us because the 9 of us would be hanging all over that Wrangler, like a litter of half-grown ‘possums on the back their momma.

      Or maybe we’d have to trade almost all that gear away. We’d try to hold on to a couple of rifles and a box of bullets. Those, and a pair of work gloves for all hands, we’d be sure to keep. In that case, you’d see us walking into your driveway in a loose family-style tactical formation, rifle barrels slung down. I’ll be the old, tall guy walking point. The mother-in-law will be the one pushing the walker. You’ll be able to recognize us because we’ll be the ones holding work gloves in the air.

      Of course, if the phones are working, we’ll call first. haha!

      Thanks for posting, cowboy. And thanks to all for indulging my mental exercise.

  36. MisterDarling September 2, 2014 at 12:33 am #

    This high-level overview in week’s post is in very much the same ballpark as my own, so there isn’t much for me to comment on.

    That leaves me free to swoop to the end and land, at the last sentence:

    “Why don’t we just shut up and mind our own business?”-J H K.

    Yes, “why don’t we” indeed? [*]

    Why? Because we have a large number of decision-making people lumbering along, oblivious to the fact that we no longer live in the world that Mr. George F. Kennan [1] knew, but mental inertia and constant prodding from oligarchic potentates keep ‘us’ stumbling down a road getting rockier and more washed-out by the millisecond.

    Mr. Kennan was more right than wrong – sixty years ago – but we’re well beyond that era where we can deal with any nation we feel like “in very direct terms”.

    Unfortunately, on our long journey into twilight, we lost the ability to make course changes and agonizing reappraisals. It’s one of the first things that gets disabled by corruption in a full-fledged Collapse.

    So, expect things to ‘stay on course’ (meaning: utterly misguided and deeply screwed, in every way).

    It might be helpful to pick out landmarks in the scenery whizzing by (might be useful later) and look around for bail-out spots (they’ll be coming in handy).

    — — —

    [*] It’s nice to pose the question, and go about instructing the casual observer in this way – Socratically – it’s a very polite way of going about it.

    [1] The reputed Architect of the Cold War. He arguably wrote the book and designed the blueprint for the fifty years of US foreign policy… Before the Korean War started. He was a titan.

  37. MikeMoskos September 2, 2014 at 2:00 am #

    Dmitri Orlov has written some wonderful stuff about the Ukraine:
    http://cluborlov.blogspot.com Scroll down on his blog and read the older stuff first.

    Secondly, the Ron Paul affiliated libertarians have been puzzling over why Vlad Putin–after so many years in power–is suddenly being portrayed in the West as a Satanic demon. They only thing they can come up with is that Vlad interfered with the neocons’ plans for the destruction of Syria.

  38. FincaInTheMountains September 2, 2014 at 5:56 am #

    Novorussia: independent, associated or (con)federated?

    Now let’s look at the options for Novorussia

    a) Full (de facto and de jure) independence: Novorussia

    Advantages: Security: possibility to either join Russia or sign a mutual assistance treaty which could include the basing of Russian forces in Novorussia. This would provide the ideal and maximal protection from any future attacks from the Ukies. Economy: no taxes paid to Kiev, association with Russia, full access to the huge Eurasian market, work for the Russian industry, social rights paid for by Russia (as part of an aid package). The joy of having fully won and to not have to deal with the crazies in the western Ukraine. Full and total de-Nazification.

    Disadvantages: maximalist position which leave no face saving way out for the crazies in Kiev and Washington, major difficulties in being internationally recognized. This option also leaves all the rest of the ex-Ukraine in the hands of the AngloZionists and Nazis who will constantly sabotage, subvert and disrupt the life of Novorussia. There is a real chance that this might mean leaving cities and regions like Odessa, Dniepropetrovsk, Kharkov, Chernigov, Nikolaev and many other historically Russian part of the ex-Ukraine to whatever regime is in power in Kiev. Constant military danger: the current Ukie Minister of Defense promised a victory parade for the Ukie forces in Sevastopol, I kid you not. You can imagine what folks like him will have to say to an independent Novorussia. Key problem: this maximalist position leave no incentive whatsoever for Kiev to negotiate.

    b) Practical (de facto but not de jure) independence: “Ukraine v2”

    Advantages: Novorussia already gets much more than what it wanted six months ago (see above). By preserving the fiction of a unitary Ukraine this solution leaves everybody a face saving way out and the major outside actors (Russia, US, EU, UN, OSCE) can all sign the deal and be declared guarantors. Also, if Novorussia is nominally part of the “Ukraine v2” then it gives the people of the eastern Ukraine (who are the richest, best educated majority of the Ukrainian population) a chance to counter-act and challenge the rule of Nazis in Kiev and maybe serve as a basis to bring down the current “Banderastan” and replace it instead with a “Ukraine v2”. Furthermore, a united Ukraine would be in a much better position to receive desperately needed international aid and money to rebuild. Considering that at least initially the Nazi freaks would remain in power in Kiev we can be pretty sure that they will further destroy even the little left of “Banderastan” and that, sooner or later, some regime change will occur. If the new regime in power is more or less sane, the eastern Ukraine could demand that those responsible for the mess be brought to trial and that a “truth and reconciliation” type commission be formed.

    Disadvantages: There is a real risk that the Poroshenko regime will fall and be replaced by a Iarosh dictatorship. Alternatively, southern Banderastan might break away from Kiev and for a “Kolomoiskistan”. Either way, the collapse of the Poroshenko regime risks sucking in the Donbass into a 2nd phase of the civil war with no option for overt Russian aid (covert aid would, of course, be provided). Even the notion of being represented by Nazi freaks in Kiev or to put up with a Ukie flag would be sickening for all those who died in defense of Novorussia. Furthermore, if the deal does not look solid or stable, far from coming back home from Russia, even more Novorussians would “vote with their feet” and emigrate to Russia. Nowadays, even the people of Crimea are still nervous and Russian politicians, including Putin, have had to constantly tell them “no, this time it’s forever, we will never abandon you, this is not something which will ever be overturned”. If the folks in Crimea are worried about their future even though they are now legally part of Russia, you can imagine how frightened and unsure the people of Novorussia would be in any kind of “association” with Kiev, even a purely formal one.

    Russia’s preferred option

    I think that Russia would prefer a Ukraine v2 version. From the point of view of Russia, it has a lot of advantages (like forcing the “Ukraine v2” to adopt a completely neutral, non-aligned, status). As I have always said, Russia does not want or need the Ukraine. What it wants is a stable, neutral and prosperous Ukraine, and not because Putin and the rest of the folks in the Kremlin are saints or Ukrainophiles, but because that is for the objective best interest for Russia. The only thing Russia needed it already got: Crimea.

    The real, “real”, goal of Putin (and Xi Jinping!)

    As I have mentioned it here many, many times, the real “real” end-goal of Russia is not even regime change in Kiev: it is regime change on the planet. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that both Russia and China want to create a New World Order, but one very different one from the one envisioned by Bush, Fukuyama, Obama and the rest of the AngloZionist 1%ers. Russia and China want a complete deconstruction of the AngloZionist Empire, they want to de-dollarize the world economy, the want an multi-polar international world order in which the rule of law is respected because it is understood that it is the most advantageous way to deal with problems. Russia see its future in her North and in Siberia, China wants its economy to go global, including the Far-East Asia and the Pacific region, Africa and Latin America. Russia also wants to role of Latin America and Central Asia to become more important because without these continents and regions there can be no truly multi-polar world. I would also argue that both Russia and China are rejecting the western civilizational model and it’s key dogmas (I won’t list them here lest I offend or infuriate new readers, but my longtime readers know exactly what I mean) and that they are both seeking to create not only a different world order but a different civilization. All this is much, much bigger than the Donbass or even the entire Ukraine. Yes, at this moment in time, the frontline of the global civilizational war is going straight across the Ukraine, but this is only one battle in a much bigger and wider war.

    • MisterDarling September 2, 2014 at 8:37 am #

      Thanks for this input Finca.

      Regarding ‘Option B’; It’s seems the likeliest outcome at this point, but as you mention, it’s fraught with risk (more extremist fragmentation) and inevitable downsides (people voting with their feet).

      Regarding the BRICS-bloc Multi-Polar World Project; based on what we’ve seen so far, you are correct. That is the way that repositioning is being sold – as a ‘dismantling’ of the existing central-banker dominated status-quo. American aggression has only driven the alliance together and accelerated their timetable:


      (+ the ZH-link about the same deal, posted by another contributor)

      However, none of the major geo-political players have as much as they think they do. For example:


      China has a number of issues bubbling below the surface, none of which it will be able to suppress for much longer. As we know in ‘The West’ a real-estate collapse is just the tip of a much worse iceberg.

      So, the way the situation is evolving we may see a politically multi-polar world in Global Civilization’s twilight years, with some of the infrastructure needed to mitigate the Collapse in place – at least regionally.

      As I was illustrating last week with my ‘Tiger/Running Shoes’ story, this is really about ending up less-bad off than the competition. In the BRICS case, we see that they are foaming the runway and prepping crash-equipment organization- and region-wide, because their power is managed through the public-sector.

      Whereas on the Anglo-American Axis, things look a little different. The model for post-collapse preparedness looks distinctly… ‘Game of Thrones’… Shall we say?


      I like the term ‘Banderastan’ by the way.

      Yes it’s amusing, but it also captures the sense of political devolution we see today, where nothing about the ‘nation-state’ concept seems stable, rooted and complete. And where every ‘land’ is a stopover, en route to other less understood (or willingly comprehended) destinations.


  39. orbit7er September 2, 2014 at 9:11 am #

    I am glad that Mr Kunstler is turning his sights and witty wisdom recently onto the absurdity of the endless Wars wasting $1 trillion per year while forever enriching the Merchants of Death. As 350.org and other groups converge on the UN Sept 21st for a major Climate Change mobilization it is long past time for alleged Environmentalists to come out of their groovy isolation in woody wilderness as if the “Environment” is somehow separated from the rest of the real issues.
    I.e. War which is the most destructive activity of all on the Environment.
    And the Pentagon is the world’s biggest fossil fuel waster (6% of US gargantuan share of oil!) and greenhouse emitter on the planet.
    Just as it is long past time for alleged “Environmentalists” to talk about the planet destruction of Auto Addiction. These issues are all tied together as the Merchants of Death and “Security” (see Ferguson)
    make literally trillions off our tax dollars for their profits which are destroying the world.
    Just imagine if the trillions wasted since 1990 on the endless Oil Wars had been spent on High Speed Rail and Green Transit?
    We would not NEED all the oil from the malevolent Saudi dictatorship of Wahabism because you could travel in the US on Rails without driving or flying.
    My neighbor just moved to a new job in Grand Rapids Michigan and his daughter just started college in Boston. He has no idea when they will be able to visit because driving is exhausting, flying is expensive and there are really no good Rail options. The Lakeshore Limited has (very nice IF you book way in advance) sleeper service for $750! Contrast that with the $49 it costs me to go on the US only functioning Rail Line the Northeast corridor from
    NYC to Boston.
    Will 350.0rg come out of their shell and talk about the WHOLE PICTURE??

  40. Pucker September 2, 2014 at 10:41 am #

    Does all this talk about Collapse get you “Down”? Have any depressed CFNers resorted to taking the anti-psychotic drug Risperdal, and, as a result, grown really Big TITS?!

    If so, you may be entitled to compensation. Call 1 800 738 1923 now!

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    • beantownbill. September 2, 2014 at 12:10 pm #

      Puck, you actually make a salient point. How can the average CFNer not be depressed with daily encounters about America’s decline, the end of modern-day civilization, threats of WW3, destruction of the environment, peak oil, peak water, peak soil, destructive climate change, total political ineptitude, Fukushima, radical Islamic atrocities, being outsmarted by Putin, zionists running the world, Ebola, Ferguson riots, police militarization and brutality, fracking, economic ineptitude, and last but not least, clathrate bubbles, meteor impacts, Yellowstone supervolcano, Santorini underground collapse and 1500 foot tsunamis, EMPs and solar flares.

      Pant, pant! I’ve totally run out of mental breath! Even I, who insists on being optimistic, often has to exert mental energy to remain that way. I can always tell when a CFNer is walking down the street in a crowd. They’re the one with head down, a frown, a sad expression and a black cloud hanging over their head.

      • ozone September 2, 2014 at 5:50 pm #

        ” How can the average CFNer not be depressed with daily encounters about [All this nasty shit], etc…”

        In short? Meh. One gets used to it.

        And this:
        ” I can always tell when a CFNer is walking down the street in a crowd. They’re the one with head down, a frown, a sad expression and a black cloud hanging over their head.”

        I beg to loudly differ and holler “Bullshit!”. I am quite the jocular fellow — as far as people who know me well attest. Adjusting to unpleasant realities (I would contend) is a sign of flexibility and adaptability. Can’t do ‘er? Well sorry then; crumble in despair when those realities take you by surprise. I intend to remain clearheaded and have a laugh or two while I’m tramping about the place. It’s not a prerequisite to ride rainbow-farting unicorns to accomplish that.

        • beantownbill. September 2, 2014 at 7:29 pm #

          Well, good for you, O3. Backtracking a little here, I never said everyone is depressed. Me, I got a good, if weird sense of humor, and I crack up my daily.

          • beantownbill. September 2, 2014 at 7:30 pm #

            Supposed to say… Crack up my wife daily.

          • ozone September 2, 2014 at 7:43 pm #

            Ha! I was on tenterhooks for a bit there!
            Glad it’s the wife and not the car. 😉

          • stelmosfire September 4, 2014 at 11:33 am #

            Sheet BTB, I heard from the fellas at Boston FD that your wife always has her crack up! ;o)

  41. AKlein September 2, 2014 at 11:16 am #

    This ISIS (or ISIL) “thing” really smells to high heaven. After all of our mucking around in the Near East, suddenly, out of nowhere, and without (seemingly) any forewarning, appears this relatively well organized, well funded and well armed band of crazies bent on bringing about a new caliphate. Frankly, this scenario seems directly out of some lurid comic book, with ISIS playing the super “baddy” for our consumption. I don’t know sufficiently verifiable facts to have a well founded opinion, but something about ISIS just doesn’t pass the smell test.
    I would like to hear other CFNers take on ISIS.

    • beantownbill. September 2, 2014 at 11:48 am #

      I hear you. Sniff, sniff. Something stinks to high heaven. We (the public) may never learn the truth about ISIS’ origins and successes. For some strange reason I don’t trust our government to tell us the whole truth. I’m not even sure the politicians know, as well. All we have to do is find out which US covert organization may be involved.

  42. FincaInTheMountains September 2, 2014 at 11:41 am #

    There will be no “Gay pride parades” in Crimea, says Aksenov

    Representatives of LGBT community not once tried to held “Pride Parade” in Crimea. All of them were stopped by Crimean authorities.

    Though not illegal in Russia, “alternative sexual orientation” is frowned upon by general public. Also propaganda of it is illegal to minors, punishable by fine.

    Another thing Russian society does not like very much is “Juvenile Justice” that was imported from the West.

    • Janos Skorenzy September 2, 2014 at 3:34 pm #

      Yes it’s wonderful how gay pride marches are smashed in Russia with the people and police working together. This is what a real organic culture looks like. The bruised marchers tearfully ask why. They are told, Because your marches would demoralize the People. Exactly right. Americans would crush such activities as well if not for the Liberal Police State.

      White Nationalists held such high hopes for Putin, you have no idea. But alas the Rasputin like Dugin and his Eurasianism have dashed our hopes. But still many of us support Russia against the Ukrainian upstarts. I assume you have read Solzhenitsyn’s “Two Hundred Years Together” and know about the Jewish question – which certainly has bearing on the Ukrainian coup.

      Here’s one White Nationalist who is holding to an older more Nationalistic line against Russia. He makes some good points about the unhealthy way Russians are beginning to revere Stalin again.


      • FincaInTheMountains September 3, 2014 at 6:03 am #

        The ideas of Russian civilization are very different than the ideas of American Right – Strong Leader (Tsar or Samoderjec), Strong State, rights of all Nationalities and Religions must be respected, study of national languages are encouraged in schools (along with mandatory Russian language and culture that acts as unifying force).
        The history of Jewish people in Russia is somewhat complicated and deserves longer conversation, My farther in the 30s graduated from Jewish school(Idish, not Hebrew). By the end of 30s such schools were all closed. It didn’t prevent my farther to get high education in civil engineering, get drafted in 1942 and get into bomber-pilot school. He flew some sorties in 1944 against Romanian oil fields.
        After the war he was put in charge of construction of one of the first Russian Uranium enrichment plant, got fired in 1952 when the first wave of antisemitism hit USSR – but not repressed, just transferred. After that he had a very productive civil-engineering career in Yekaterinburg, Urals.

        By the way, both my farther and my mother come from Ukrainian part of USSR, so I tend to take the events in modern Ukraine somewhat personally.

  43. beantownbill. September 2, 2014 at 12:16 pm #

    BTW, as soon as a commenter mentions zio-this or zio-that, they lose total respect from me. Lucky for you that Jim runs this blog because if it were me, I would’ve long ago banned such people.

    • Janos Skorenzy September 2, 2014 at 3:18 pm #

      So Zionism doesn’t exist? Or are you saying that it’s so perfect that any criticism of it is utterly evil?

      Your position doesn’t make any sense and doesn’t speak well of you. Mr Kunstler is a far more moderate (in the good sense) person than you are.

      • beantownbill. September 2, 2014 at 7:35 pm #

        Criticism is ok, but not sweeping generalizations and accusations that are really thinly disguised anti-Jewish statements.

    • Frankiti September 2, 2014 at 3:27 pm #

      They don’t have respect for the conversation at hand, let alone others. The best remedy is to ignore them completely as they eagerly await payoff in the form of a rebuttal… that hopefully never comes.

      • beantownbill. September 2, 2014 at 7:39 pm #

        It’s true the best remedy is to ignore them, but I get a payoff from my anti-anti-Semitic comments: I feel like I did something good, and that makes me feel good, too.

        • Janos Skorenzy September 2, 2014 at 8:27 pm #

          I feel the same with my anti anti anti Semite remarks. And some of my best friends are Joos too. It sound crazy, but it’s true. As someone said, the universe is not stranger than we imagine, but stranger than we Can imagine.

        • Frankiti September 2, 2014 at 8:39 pm #

          Well, I feel they are more akin to the shirtless man on the corner screaming at the sidewalk… everyone knows he is unbalanced, and confronting him only makes one look the more foolish and only exacerbates the disturbed’s behavior.

    • MisterDarling September 2, 2014 at 5:40 pm #


      I just find it bizarre that there are these CFN-folk who quote the ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion’ and ‘Rush L.’ and then expect to be taken seriously. It’s such a shame. One minute they seem like they might actually be getting somewhere, and the next… Tsk, tsk, tsk.


      OTOH, I’ve never felt the need to threaten them with ‘doxxing’, or advocating that they be banned. In this environment – where nothing personal can be adequately confirmed – that is simply a threat of slander and subsequent mayhem.

      Why don’t I? There’s just no need. They start out provocatively (good, that gets attention) then they ruin it…. Every… Single… Time.

      It seems odd. You’d think that these people would be trained in how to present for their movement(s). Perhaps the manual should be called the ‘Build a Better Nazi; Enhance your Personal Impact in just Ten Easy Steps!’ or some-such…

      Just a thought.


      • beantownbill. September 2, 2014 at 7:51 pm #

        Nobody ever said the average neo-Nazi is bright. I do believe there’s a neuronic thread that connects rabid hatred brain cells to the dumbed-down area in their pre-frontal cortexes.

        I did feel uncomfortable saying I would ban them, but then I thought, “What the hell, it’s my blog, I run it and it’s not a democracy. I get to choose the subject matter and the focus.”

      • Janos Skorenzy September 2, 2014 at 8:23 pm #

        Right. You do know that European Men have been put in prison by people like Bill? Their crime? Disputing the Holocaust narrative. And they want to bring this kind of legislation to America. But that’s fine with you because you strive to be “correct in your politics” at all times. And since Jews are on top, you’re on their side.

  44. volodya September 2, 2014 at 12:34 pm #

    How this thing looks to me is a shit-hole with oil and a shit-hole without oil in a border scuffle.

    Both shit-holes run by murderers, the shit-hole without oil in a state of collapse because of bulimic corruption and the shit-hole with oil even worse, beset by an ebola of theft because, you see, it has oil and therefore there’s more money to steal.

    What if we assume that Russia has – cough – “interests” in the Ukraine. Or what if we assume that Russia has NO interests in the Ukraine. What’s the difference?

    Either way, does it make any earthly difference to anyone outside the Ukraine or Russia who governs those eastern-most provinces? Does it make any earthly difference to anyone living in the US?

    Let’s start with this, that the outcome of this squabble is of NO consequence to ANY American. I think this is a reasonable position to take.

    Let’s look at it another way, Does Goldman Sachs really give a shit? Does JP Morgan? Does anyone on Wall Street?

    I invoke JPM and Goldman because those are two names that matter in the Wall St – Washington Axis of Evil, that have pull in Washington, and if I was a betting man, I would bet that if either called Obama, that Obama would pick up the phone. Because to paraphrase Sollozzo, Wall Street carries American politicians around in its pockets like so many nickels and dimes.

    Back to the issue, would hiving off a few Ukrainian provinces affect business on Wall Street? I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that maybe apart for a few intra-day jags, not a bit. So would Goldman or JPM send messenger boys to chat with Obama about the Ukraine? I can’t see it, can you?

    So who MIGHT this affect? Let’s make another not unreasonable assumption, that if the outcome affects anyone outside the Ukraine and Russia, it affects the countries in close proximity. Let’s make another assumption that people in these countries have interests in the Ukraine.

    Which leads to this conclusion, seeing that the US has NO interest in the matter and seeing as countries like Poland, Germany may have SOME interest, let the Germans and the Poles interfere. They’re all grown-ups, Germany is the local power, Merkel is competent, so let her take the lead.

    And let’s assume that those European neighbors have some worries about Russian territorial aggression. So, how about this, let those same countries make the growling noises, let them order a call-up of their own forces, let them deal with it.

    The pentagon, Obama and Kerry? Shut the fuck up and stay the fuck out. Unfit, incompetent, sterling examples of regression to the mean. If the US in past generations had the best leadership that one could ask, well, that was then. Now it doesn’t.

    And I agree with JHK, the Ukraine has got a fighting chance of going to zero, having done its level best to get there and having largely succeeded. It was their own doing so who cares, like the Germans and the Poles, they too are grown-ups.

    • FincaInTheMountains September 2, 2014 at 12:57 pm #

      Just curious: doesn’t it bother you a bit that Kiev’s military carpet-shell the residential districts of Donbass, Ukraine with multiple rocket launchers at almost a point blank range? And that happens with the blessing of your government.

      Don’t you feel at least a little personal responsibility? Or all that matters is how Wall Street will react and how it may affect your trading positions?

      And what, exactly, you mean by “Ukraine has got a fighting chance of going to zero”, how come you’re using a trading term to population of almost 50 million human beings?

      • volodya September 2, 2014 at 1:34 pm #

        Does it bother me? What difference would it make if it DID bother me? I’ll put it to you like this: Ukrainians are grown ups too, and has others have said, born with a full complement of moral and intellectual faculties. They are fully capable of making decisions ie to bombard or not.

        The Ukrainians had it fully within their own power to build up their country since independence or to tear it down. A trading term you say? So what if it illustrates what happened in the generation or so since independence?

        Ukrainian oligarchs could have done other than to wreck their own country, the oligarchs’ peers in the Ukrainian intelligentsia could have taken action to stop them, as could the man in the street. They opted otherwise, they let it get to the point of collapse.

        Ukrainians are fully capable of defending or running or ruining their own country. They are not helpless pawns in the clutches of the evil Americans. What happens in the Ukraine is the responsibility of Ukrainians.

    • MisterDarling September 3, 2014 at 2:57 pm #

      “Let’s look at it another way, Does Goldman Sachs really give a shit? Does JP Morgan? Does anyone on Wall Street? “-volodya.

      re | The Pivot Away from the US dollar:


      Yes, The Street does – b/c it has a direct stake in the petro-dollar. Ex-that, their whole little “psych-f*ck family” blows itself apart and the BIS simply washes its hands of the mess and walks away.

  45. volodya September 2, 2014 at 12:45 pm #

    And Eric Cantor is going to Wall Street ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

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    • lumbricina September 3, 2014 at 8:21 pm #

      Oh but of course. If you’re not a crook and liar on the hill, you should go to Wall Street. What’s the difference?

  46. seawolf77 September 2, 2014 at 2:46 pm #

    Sanctions on Russia are idiotic. The simple fact is Russia has interests in Ukraine. We act like the school teacher in the school yard. We are not. China will soon start flexing its muscles. This isn’t going to get better.

  47. Frankiti September 2, 2014 at 3:05 pm #

    In regard to the Ukraine, the US, once again, has failed to respect what Noam Chomsky refers to as the “Universalism” doctrine. That is, the US blatantly disregards the golden-rule, or fails to comprehend and appreciate a hypothetical analogous circumstance. In other words, imagine if Perry succeeded and had Texas secede from the US with all its ports, refineries, corporate HQs, resources. Next, imagine that Russia seeks to have Texas join a defense treaty with Russia, Cuba, and Syria. How would the US react? How would the US feel about a former state moving into the sphere of influence of Russia? How would the US react if after it seized Houston (an important port/terminal city) where many American hailing from states other-than-Texas live, Russia worked to freeze American assets, jeopardize its house-of-cards financial integrity façade, and freeze trade (meaning that everything made on the Chinese factory floor was cut-off)? Let me guess, the buffoons in office would be acting a lot worse (read more severe) than Putin.

    • seawolf77 September 2, 2014 at 3:08 pm #

      Well said.

    • Janos Skorenzy September 2, 2014 at 3:46 pm #

      Yes under the Kosovo Doctrine, Nations have the right to break apart. And that is exactly what Texas should do since the Feds wont protect her border or allow them to either.

      Oh for the ancient times when people could conquer without excuses or using moral pretext. On the other hand, this means morality is stronger now. Hypocrisy is the debt evil pays to good.

  48. “What complicates things is that California is right next door to Mexico. For many years it was even part of the same nation as Mexico. Mexico has a lot of hard assets in California: taco trucks, cellphone retail outlets, politicians, and marijuana smugglers. Because they were recently part of the same nation, a lot of Mexican-speaking people live in the all-over part of California bordering Mexico. The casual observer from Mars might easily discern that Mexico has a range of real interests in California. Especially if the central government of California can’t control its own economic affairs.”

    Change of subject, but kept the logic.

    I’m thinking of starting my own blog as an ad-lib version of Kunstler’s weeklies.

    • Janos Skorenzy September 2, 2014 at 3:50 pm #

      Let the Mexicans try it! We could just turn the water off. Alas if only our leaders could have the same Greek clarity that I possess.

      • Florida Power September 2, 2014 at 4:12 pm #

        From the Cognitive Dissonance files:

        Exxon-Mobil is today drilling in the Russian arctic with Rosneft. BP has a 20% stake in Rosneft. The French have not reneged on their contract to supply the Russian military with helicopter transport vessels, and NATO has stated they will not intervene in a French government matter.

        • MisterDarling September 2, 2014 at 5:13 pm #

          Add another to those files:


          Except that… We are also selling them weapons?

          • MisterDarling September 2, 2014 at 5:14 pm #

            Clarification: ‘we’ meaning the grand NATO alliance, In this case…

          • Janos Skorenzy September 2, 2014 at 8:42 pm #

            So you support the Jewish/Nazi alliance in Ukraine? Makes sense since the American Elite do. You are predicable if nothing else.

    • MisterDarling September 2, 2014 at 6:01 pm #

      “I’m thinking of starting my own blog as an ad-lib version of Kunstler’s weeklies.”-InfernalTruthiness.

      That might be fun.

      Here’s something that might be of concern to those living west of the Sierra Nevada:


      …downsizing agriculture?

  49. progress4what September 2, 2014 at 7:29 pm #

    Thanks for the week’s work, JHK. I like the way you ended it:

    “Considering all the current mayhem in the Middle East, and the potential for deadly mischief from it spreading even into the US and western Europe, do we really have any business hassling Putin and Russia about its feckless, floundering next-door-neighbor, Ukraine? In fact, is any other nation in a better position to prevent Ukraine from descending into full-blown failure? Why don’t we just shut up and mind our own business?” – jhk –

    Yeah, for real, JHK! I’m beginning to believe that the fall of the USSR may turn out to be the WORST possible thing for the United States. There was a balance of power – and we faced an adversary in the Soviet Union that was scary enough that nobody in power in the US government was really tempted to overreach and do something stupid.

    Contrast that with the situation in Iraq – where we have done something monumentally and truly Stupid, with a capital “S.” The war on terror was never going to be a good idea. Even at the peak of US power, September 10, 2001, the concept of a war on terror was so unfocused as to be laughable for a logical person. Unfortunately, there were no logical persons in the BushII administration, and very few in congress.

    • beantownbill. September 2, 2014 at 8:01 pm #

      Kind of like the war on drugs, eh?

      • stelmosfire September 4, 2014 at 11:37 am #

        The war on drugs was lost years ago. Just another big money makers for, cartels,courts ,cops, and the prison conglomerates. I can get anything I want locally, not that I would, but is a gotdam epidemic.

  50. progress4what September 2, 2014 at 7:47 pm #

    “Because they were recently part of the same nation, a lot of Mexican-speaking people live in the all-over part of California bordering Mexico.”
    – little debbie –

    Now you see, Truth of Debbie, this is what brainwashing looks like.
    Do you have any idea when Mexico ceded the southwestern US?
    Any idea at all? Because it wasn’t “recent,” not in human terms.
    Try 1848 on for size. HAH!

    And Mexican population was so low as to make ANY CLAIM to today’s madness of US immigration and settlement completely ludicrous, to any logical person. Do you work for the US government by chance? I’m just wondering about the “logic thing.”

    “The residents could choose whether they wanted American or Mexican citizenship; all but 1000 or so chose American citizenship, which included full voting rights.” – wiki –

    And since those 1000 Mexicans were born prior to 1848 and are now all logically deceased, what should we conclude?

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    • That was satire, good sir.

      We know what California was like because it was described by eyewitnesses. For example, Two Years Before the Mast by Richard Henry Dana, an account of his voyage from Boston to “La pueblo de Los Angeles” in 1838-39, which consisted of a hut constructed of driftwood on the beach which was used to store hides.

      San fransisco bay was completely forested with only herds of grazing deer to witness the tall ships come to port to trade in skins.

      The indigenous indians of the California interior presumably far outnumbered either the Catholic rancheros or the Caucasian traders.

      The author returned in 1864, and San Fransisco had exploded into a city of 100,000 people, industrious Americans, all, none of whom had been educated to common core standards.

  51. progress4what September 2, 2014 at 7:51 pm #

    “All we have to do is find out which US covert organization may be involved.” – btb –

    All of them, bill. Every. single. one!

  52. progress4what September 2, 2014 at 8:00 pm #

    “and I crack up my daily.” – bill goes freudian? –

    OK, just kidding about the freudian thing, but that was a funny slip. I laugh a lot too, always have. I come to this place for my dose of doom, and it rarely fails to disappoint. Reading CFN is like meditating on death – good for the soul, when approached appropriately.

    I do wonder what the demographics look like, here. JHK gets 20 or 30K or so unique page views every week, maybe more. How many of those really take it to heart? How many of those comment? How many commnet repeatedly? A very rarified subset of a very rarified subset; that’s the answer to these questions. No wonder we crack up (laughing?) on a regular basis.

  53. progress4what September 2, 2014 at 8:11 pm #

    “Will 350.0rg come out of their shell and talk about the WHOLE PICTURE??” – orbit7er –

    Rail would be nice, orbit7. But, honestly, did you know that modern wide body commercial aircraft get better mileage per passenger per mile – than does average passenger rail?

    The big deal that Sierra Club, 350.org, and the other big politically correct green organizations NEVER address is growing population in the United States. If you would like to do something about that intractable problem, I’ll name a good organization for you to donate to or work with.

    Just ask me.

  54. pkrugman September 2, 2014 at 9:26 pm #

    Regarding the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo cited by P4W* that treaty is not valid. It was signed in Mexico City by both parties, then the USA changed the treaty unilaterally. Mexico still has claims to the land taken from them by a treaty that is not valid and not legally binding.

    Here is the relevant portion from the link provided by P4W*:

    “The version of the treaty ratified by the United States Senate eliminated Article X, which stated that the U.S. government would honor and guarantee all land grants awarded in lands ceded to the U.S. to citizens of Spain and Mexico by those respective governments.”


    Mexico has since rightfully reclaimed its land as millions of Mexicans have ignored the border… a border which no longer applied to them once the treaty was invalidated. The treaty is not legally valid [de jure], and millions of Mexicans living here prove it [de facto].

    “A record 33.7 million Hispanics of Mexican origin resided in the United States in 2012, according to an analysis of Census Bureau data by Pew Research Center.”

    The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo means nothing in reality. History has proven it. And 33.7 million Mexicans are right to reclaim their territory.

    • beantownbill. September 2, 2014 at 9:43 pm #

      But the US went to war with Mexico

      • beantownbill. September 2, 2014 at 9:55 pm #

        But the Us went to war with Mexico in 1845 and defeated them. The treaty was 166 years ago and America now owns the land by adverse possession. Mexico could have gotten back most of the land by another war during the Civil War, when the states were otherwise distracted and probably couldn’t defend the southwest.

        Actually, that’s what Mexico is doing now, when we are distracted by many serious issues.

    • progress4what September 2, 2014 at 10:24 pm #

      You are wrong.

      Please cite three of peer reviewed research published in a nationally recognized journal in support of your position.

      You’ll still be wrong, but a little time spent researching will help you.

      • progress4what September 2, 2014 at 10:26 pm #


        Please cite three pieces of peer reviewed research. published in a nationally recognized journal, in support of your position.

        Can’t be done, can it?

      • progress4what September 2, 2014 at 11:01 pm #

        Freakin’ goofy comment software.

        My responses were to pkrugman, not beantown.

  55. MisterDarling September 2, 2014 at 9:50 pm #

    “So you support the Jewish/Nazi alliance in Ukraine? Makes sense since the American Elite do.”-Janos.

    Not at all. By ‘we’ I mean all CFN-ists that are citizens of NATO-member nations.

    Of course we have our own personal stances and/or objections to the things that our nations do. But from the standpoint of an outsider, we’re guilty at some level by association.

    Not fair, but there it is.

    So as a self-professed fascist, what is your stance regarding the Kiev Junta, exactly?

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    • Janos Skorenzy September 3, 2014 at 12:38 am #

      The Jews seem to dominate so most of us feel the Fascists are being used by the New World Order to give their color revolution a legitimacy it doesn’t have. Of course we support a Ukraine free of both Russia and NATO. On the other hand, the East is pro-Russia and wants to stay in their sphere. Thus as it exists now, it simply isn’t a viable country. People who can’t get along should split. That’s true of friends, married couples, or nations.

      Samuel Huntington said the same thing a couple of decades ago. His civilizational line goes right through Ukraine: the West is and has been looking towards the West and East is and has been looking towards the Orthodox East.

      Putin obviously wants Crimea kept close. He’ll probably let the East vote on what they want to do. As Be said, he’d probably be happy not to be directly responsible for the East, but he’s obviously not going to let NATO set up shop on his border. It’s bad enough they seem to be grabbing the rest of Ukraine.

  56. pkrugman September 2, 2014 at 10:04 pm #

    “But the US went to war with Mexico” — BTB

    The Treaty was signed by both parties AFTER the war was over. Then the USA invalidated the treaty when the USA Senate changed it unilaterally. They changed Article IX, which originally stated that “relations and communication … shall be open, free and exempt from all hindrance whatever.” American authorities removed that provision from Article IX and altogether struck Article X, which guaranteed that the American government would respect property rights.

    Mexican “illegals” aren’t illegal — they’re simply exercising the terms of the postwar agreement signed by both parties. What is illegal is for Obama to deport undocumented Mexicans who have a right to be here on their own land.

    • The problem with this logic is that it is endlessly recursive.

      1. The USA isn’t the proper landowner, the Mexicans are.
      2. The Mexicans aren’t the proper landowner, the Spaniards are.
      3. The Spaniards aren’t the proper landowner, the Yama and other indigenous are.
      4. The Yama and other indigenous aren’t the proper landowner, the prehistorical, archaic tribes and peoples of North America are.
      5. The prehistorical, archaic tribes and peoples of North America aren’t the proper landowner, the indigneous fauna of North America are.

      Etc. The argument falls either to reductio ad absurdum, prima facie ownership by the current occupant, but either way, the land is recognized by the UN as United States sovereign territory, and within that, recognized tribal first nations. Mexico City may lay claim to that piece of dirt but they are particularly disadvantaged as to the fact as their people are generally abandoning citizenship in favor of American. That fact and the fact that several hundred thousand federal armed forces reside in CA along with 32 military bases, and 168,000 military personnel.

      California’s GDP of $2 trillion dwarfs Mexico’s alleged $1.18 billion in 2012 dollars.

      At the time of the treaty of Guadalupe, 1848, San Fransisco was filling up quick with a population of 10,000. Los Angeles was a pueblo consisting of a few Mexican families and indigenous people. Agriculture was primarily grazing stock. San Diego did not exist.

      I understand the allure of idealism, but, if anyone had original claim to California, it was the indian tribes. The number of tribes is hard to estimate, but according to Wikipedia, “Before European contact, native Californians spoke over 300 dialects of approximately 100 distinct languages”…

      The only fair idealism I’ll indulge in is the claim that the state of California be maintained in respect to the original flora and fauna. That is, in an environmentally responsible way.

  57. pkrugman September 2, 2014 at 11:30 pm #

    P4W* brings up the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, a favorite theme of Asoka*. Now he asks for three peer reviewed articles, another obsession of Asoka*. P4W* is probably [*].

    But since he[*] asked, there is plenty of scholarship (though what really matters are the 33.7 million Mexicans here) on the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. Here are four articles from peer-reviewed journals:

    Sang-Rae, Lim. “Rethinking The Mexican-American War And Mexico’s Historical Interpretations”. (English).” Asian Journal Of Latin American Studies 24.3 (2011): 97-119.

    Norton, Jack. “If The Truth Be Told: Revising California History As A Moral Objective.” American Behavioral Scientist 58.1 (2014): 83-96

    Cameron, Christopher David Ruiz. “One Hundred Fifty Years Of Solitude: Reflections On The End Of The History Academy’s Dominance Of Scholarship On The Treaty Of Guadalupe Hidalgo.” Bilingual Review 25.1 (2000): 1-22

    Luna, Guadalupe T. “Chasing Treaty Promises.” Berkeley La Raza Law Journal 18.1 (2007): 105-122

    • Florida Power September 3, 2014 at 12:19 pm #

      Bravo! So will the Mexicans begin paying taxes not to California or the USA but exclusively to Mexico or Spain –since those are the entities whose land grants are affected? And is the only requirement for re-claiming the rights and responsibilities pertaining to the original grants that one be of Mexican or Spanish descent?

      Once again California leads the way. I can’t wait for George Clooney’s gardener to show up for work one day waving a piece of paper that proves he — not George — is the rightful owner of the property and George has until sundown to vacate the premises.

  58. StillFarmin September 2, 2014 at 11:37 pm #

    Valid points, to be sure, precious few of which are remotely original.

    ” … nations are respectively 11,925, 11,129, 10,745, and 10,072, miles away from America … ”

    Seriously? Down to the mile?

    Which part of America. Puget Sound? Brownsville? Coral Gables?

    This sort of childish filler diminishes your good works.

  59. FincaInTheMountains September 3, 2014 at 5:24 am #

    You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. Al Capone

    Kiev: Poroshenko Announces Ceasefire in East Ukraine After Conversation With Putin

    KIEV, September 3 (RIA Novosti) – The Ukrainian president’s press service said Wednesday after a telephone conversation between Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko and Russian President Vladimir Putin that Poroshenko announced a permanent ceasefire in eastern Ukraine.
    “Mutual understanding was reached in regard to steps to be taken to provide peace,” a statement published on the Ukrainian president’s website reads.

    • MisterDarling September 3, 2014 at 1:47 pm #

      And so it begins. Just in time for the Northern Deadline: Winter.

  60. FincaInTheMountains September 3, 2014 at 7:26 am #

    Obama announces plan to send Air Force units, aircraft to Baltics

    NATO is so afraid of aggression from Russia, instead they might get something like Donbass in Estonia or Latvia. Put has brilliantly implemented technologies of Hybrid War. Is NATO ready to start carpet-shelling Baltic cities?

    Putin got more power now than US got debt.

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  61. Cavepainter September 3, 2014 at 11:27 am #

    Ceaselessly amazing to me is how much of secular opinion expressed about the order of nature (and humanity’s predicament within it) amounts to a kind of Biblical “last judgment”, as though nature behaves like a Hague International Tribunal Court, applying an anthropomorphic moral code in sorting among nations or groups, dispensing “justice or damnation” accordingly. “Grace”, as dispensed in this case of the worthy distinguished for the unworthy, being survival in face of the devastation being wrought in the widening impact wake of Paul Ehrlich’s “population bomb”. Goes to show how persistent is humanity’s need to view the cosmos as manageable rather than indifferent, making nature itself a “shaggy god story”.

    The warm and fuzzy moralizing of the secular Left aligns exactly to that of other faith’s attempt to placate the human psyche’s need to believe that human behavior is determinate in outcomes deigned by nature. That’s a big leap, taking the necessity of common moral code that makes for cohesiveness within human social order, then projecting it outward to being “universal” beyond the mortal sphere. Just another “Shaggy God Story”.

    Sorry, there’s no objective evidence that this secular utopian fable has any more credibility than other “coming to the light” religious belief. Yet, it sustains for its adherents for reason no different from that comforting those faithful to prophetic religions such as Christendom or Islam.

    For those adherents it is just too damn disturbing: The more objective view that the global eco system is recoiling at an accelerating rate, auguring a great collapse among all species due to the over-shoot of human population. Accordingly, survival for our species – as with all others — will be very spotty (if at all). Prospect for those “spots” will have nothing to do with gestures of penance toward balancing perceived wrongs of history. Instead, it will be purely incidental like all other things in nature. The only human determinant will be whether or not population/resource ratio is kept sustainable where not already irrecoverably lost.

    That is to say, practice apostasy toward Liberal Left’s meme of population redistribution, dissolving national sovereignties and borders, and absorbing unlimited immigration of “victim groups” of the historically oppressed. The US’s prospect is dimming rapidly under the rubric of the Liberal Left religion.

    OK, so no forthcoming cum-bah-yah moment when contentious cultural differences will all be put aside, when all people grasp the “truth” that if everyone becomes vegan, meditates, practices tai-chi, doesn’t use paper towels and don’t waste water rinsing rice before cooking or washing out tooth brushes, and tolerate shoulder-to-shoulder existence by dancing and singing all the time, thus serenity and peace prevails.

    • MisterDarling September 3, 2014 at 1:57 pm #

      “Accordingly, survival for our species – as with all others — will be very spotty (if at all).”-Cave.

      It’s understood that the environmental ‘readjustment’ threat is moving up in the background, all the while. But that’s a done deal at this point, so the conversation stays focused on short-term threats.

      Political analysis (macro and micro-scale) is much like a running commentary on a fire-fight inside a burning explosives factory: it’s about figuring out who survives that mess to face Round Two.

  62. dweebus September 3, 2014 at 1:02 pm #

    ” ‘Anything the US touches turns to Libya or Iraq.’ Vlad has a point there, and what he left off the list, of course, was Ukraine, which entered the zone of failing states a few months ago when the US lubricated the overthrow of its previously-elected government.”

    This is to be expected, as Industrial Civ. rolls down the depletion curve to disintegration. Lester Brown has pointed out the list of failed states is a great indicator for Collapse.

    “Why don’t we just shut up and mind our own business?”

    As if! This would fly in the face of American Exceptionalism. We will expend all our energy sustaining the unsustainable. And then one day: we won’t.!

    • MisterDarling September 3, 2014 at 2:00 pm #

      “We will expend all our energy sustaining the unsustainable. And then one day: we won’t.!”-dweebus.

      That’s one way to nutshell the Collapse phenom’. Not a graceful disintegration, but a complete destruction of that last 50% of the old structure.

      It didn’t have to be this way, but… Oh Well.

  63. pkrugman September 3, 2014 at 1:16 pm #

    Obama is being suckered in by the beheadings. Military intervention is exactly what ISIS wants and Obama is about to fall into the ISIS trap. As Jim says, we should just stay out, especially since we don’t know the long term consequences, or even who the players are.

    Even Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is confused about who the players are. Netanyahu claims Hezbollah, Hamas, al-Qaeda, and ISIS are all plotting against Israel. Even he does not seem to know that Hezbollah is an ally of Iran and has been fighting alongside the Assad government. Hezbollah’s operations over the last year have been almost exclusively against ISIS and al-Qaeda’s Nusra Front.

    So now Obama is going to side with Hezbollah against ISIS? More violence, more war, will not resolve anything. Obama should take Jim’s advice and not be a busybody.

    Obama did a good job on healthcare with the creation of Obamacare. Over 7 million are now enrolled, a great success. Obama also succeeded with the economic recovery: 54 consecutive months of job growth in the PRIVATE SECTOR.

    Now I think Obama should turn to other domestic issues. He should cut our military by 50% and use the money to invest in infrastructure, in efficient mass transportation, and in renewable and sustainable energy sources.

  64. volodya September 3, 2014 at 1:16 pm #

    About the Ukraine again, if I was Putin I would hand the Ukraine over wrapped in a bow. Let Draghi sort it out (or more likely fail to sort it out), let Merkel finance the bail out.

    NATO was always make-believe anyway, a non-alliance of the reluctant, the unwilling and the unable. Its time is way past. Want to push the whole mess over a cliff?

    Wouldn’t giving up on a former territory be acquiescence to Western expansion? Bad optics for sure. It would look like a set-back for Orthodox-authoritarian Russia.

    But in economic and military terms the Ukraine is a millstone. That place has one foot in the graveyard of failed states. Why would the Russians want it?

    Well, Putin would enjoy an enormous political surge if the Ukraine is re-absorbed into Russia. The squares would be full of rejoicing Russians glorying in the resurgence of their empire. For now at least. At least until the enormity of it sinks in.

    Europe is dead, the EU is already full of sinking and failing states, their people apathetic, flaccid, devoid of vigor, its cafe layabouts easy prey for Muslims in their midst fired up with visions of Islamic revival. Can you imagine if they had to deal with the Ukraine too?

    So give the EU one more flailing/failing state to deal with. Bye-bye EU, bye-bye Europe, bye-bye NATO.

    • MisterDarling September 3, 2014 at 2:06 pm #

      “NATO was always make-believe anyway, a non-alliance of the reluctant, the unwilling and the unable. Its time is way past. Want to push the whole mess over a cliff?”-volodya.

      The Washington Consensus doesn’t have a lot of options at this point. When you’re in a jam, even ripping out and throwing the kitchen sink looks like a plan.

    • MisterDarling September 3, 2014 at 2:51 pm #

      Speaking of ‘boots on the ground’:


      Take-away quote:

      “Our vehicles were colliding with one another and our tracks were running over our own fighters,” said Taras Samchuk, 28, whose 51st brigade was one of the units surrounded in Ilovaysk.”

      The Kiev junta has much to discuss… ‘b/c things are going so well’.


      • FincaInTheMountains September 3, 2014 at 5:49 pm #

        If you are still in doubt regarding “regular Russian army fighting in Ukraine”, i suggest you read this article:
        “How can you tell whether Russia has invaded Ukraine?”

        • MisterDarling September 3, 2014 at 11:09 pm #

          This would be an interesting to view while sipping a suitable beverage (make mine a G&T if you please):

          “There is quite a crowd of US State Department staffers, CIA and Mossad agents, and Western NGO people stuck at Borispol airport in Kiev. Some are nervously calling everyone they know on their satellite phones. Western politicians are demanding that they be evacuated immediately, but Russian authorities want to hold onto them until their possible complicity in war crimes has been determined.”-Mr.Orlov.

          Well, not there… yet.

          And, I will mention farther along, taking over all of Ukraine is a mistake.

  65. MisterDarling September 3, 2014 at 2:12 pm #

    Meanwhile, back in the realm of good-ish news:

    IS jumps the shark: they threatened the Chechens. *Bad* Move…


    It looks like I.S. is neutralizing itself. Between Hezbollah, the Kurds and now the Chechens, they’re going to wind up with a handful of ‘full diaper’.

    What this says about their organization is that it lacks discipline, focus and strategic vision.

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  66. MisterDarling September 3, 2014 at 2:15 pm #

    Re | MSM duplicity

    MSM finding a completely two-faced way of avoiding saying that *banks* are hoarding the money they received from QE et al. …


    The velocity of money is at an all time low. Hmmm, wonder why?


  67. MisterDarling September 3, 2014 at 2:18 pm #

    Re | ‘Perception’ control

    The propaganda seems to be working…

    …But only domestically.

    Russia’s PR status… By the numbers:


    • FincaInTheMountains September 3, 2014 at 5:30 pm #

      May be by looking around on the Net you could give us a little more impartial view in that regard, at least not coming from Langley’s asset “Radio Free Europe”

      For instance, if you want to get objective info on the state of US economy, do you go the Fed web site or rather from http://www.shadowstats.com/ ?

      • MisterDarling September 3, 2014 at 5:46 pm #

        That is a fine and (under any other circumstance) extremely valid point, FitM.

        My reasoning for presenting a graph from an ‘approved source’ (from Foggy Bottom’s p.o.v. ) is that if they’re are showing that perceptions are that lopsided, what does hat tell you?

        Why would they display something like this? To upbraid the media-troops? It certainly does not *help* their cause if they are supposed to be helping the WH vilify the enemy-du-jour.

        Interesting observation (and verifiable fact): Intelligence community professionals often publish the true state of affairs – often in stark contrast to views espoused by the uppermost echelon.

        Why? *Because* decision-makers simply _do_not_listen_. The top echelon doesn’t actually process information for themselves anyway. They have their people do it.

        There’s a very good reason why people GTFO of the various agencies and go to work in the private sector. This is part of it.

  68. Janos Skorenzy September 3, 2014 at 2:52 pm #

    Fincaln: Classical Russian Civilization follows the Byzantine model. There is little separation between the Church and State. The Tsar is both the secular and de facto sacred leader, both Pope and King as it were – the model of Christ on earth. Your “all religions are respected” is an illegitimate addition that came via the Communist terror. It must be expunged. Eternal Russia is Orthodox and only Orthodox. Jews were a very awkward addition and one that lead to the tragedy of Communism. And Muslims can never have any place at all. Thus understood, one understands the madness of Dugin who wants to merge with Muslims and shamanic Siberian peoples.

    The Siberians might be tolerated (this is different than respected) just like the Jews. The Muslims are obviously a losing proposition and should be jettisoned. And Muslims living within Russia must be deported.

    • FincaInTheMountains September 3, 2014 at 5:22 pm #

      Not sure where exactly you got that information. Also, Russian Federation comprised from many autonomous republics, some of which – Tatarstan (kapital Kazan) for example, are predominantly Muslim.
      Here, take a look https://www.google.com/maps/@55.7955015,49.073303,11z

      • Janos Skorenzy September 3, 2014 at 5:50 pm #

        Ah very funny. You have given yourself away. I have plumbed your depths and not found them. You argue for a Russian Empire full of restless, intransigent minorities – even Muslims! Autro-Hungary couldn’t even hold itself together and they were nearly all European Christians (except for Bosnia and Albania). But you expect Russia to hold together with Muslims, Turks, and Mongolian tribesmen? You have not learned the basics of history. Empires don’t last.

    • FincaInTheMountains September 3, 2014 at 6:47 pm #

      Muslims has been part of the Russian World since the end of 14th century – the Battle of Kulikovo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kulikovo

      Yes, Russia is Empire, but different than say British Empire – it absorbs nations and integrates then into their civilization, not exploits them.

      For instance, during the Soviet era the Ukraine on average lived a lot better than Mainland Russia. Same goes to Baltic Republics. They always enjoyed special status in the USSR.

      Russia is the only European power of any significance that never had any colonies.

      • Janos Skorenzy September 3, 2014 at 11:19 pm #

        Russia, the real Russia, has cultural connections with the other Orthodox Countries – not with the Baltics who hate them. Of course Stalin sent huge numbers of Russians into the iron curtain countries to balkanize their culture – as dictators have been doing since time immemorial.

        Never had any colonies? You have a lot of nerve to say that. Ask the Chechens, the Finns, the Poles, etc about that.

        Stalin was a butcher. Stop worshiping him. And start revering your White Christian heritage – that’s the real Russia. If you are half Jewish you can convert. Many have.

  69. MisterDarling September 3, 2014 at 3:26 pm #

    re | Hi-volume Air-Travel: The Twilight Years.

    Some people have a hard time with the idea that global airport traffic could ever collapse . They can’t “picture” it.

    Well, let me help you with that:




  70. volodya September 3, 2014 at 5:47 pm #

    Mr Darling, the Washington Consensus can do one thing and that is to goad Putin into taking over the whole of the mess that is the Ukraine. It would be tricky, highly risky, prone to blowing up in everybody’s face. But if Putin takes the bait and rolls his tanks into Kiev then he would have a catastrophic mess on his hands. He would be stuck with this until the end of time. Once the Russian populace realizes what they’ve taken over Putin’s political capital will disappear as fast as equity in a housing bubble.

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    • MisterDarling September 3, 2014 at 11:21 pm #

      “…if Putin takes the bait and rolls his tanks into Kiev then he would have a catastrophic mess on his hands.”-volodya.

      Agreed. That would be several mistakes waiting to happen, nested one inside the other. . .

      Having said that, I’m now interested in seeing whether he “takes the bait” as you say. IF he can maintain discipline and not overplay his hand – as the US has been doing for the past half-century or more [*] – then he’s a real contender.

      — — —

      [*] Wherever there might have been the slightest opening, herds of rutting financial swine and snapping & snarling profiteering dogs burst through the breach and ruined any proper consolidation… Irritating.

  71. ozone September 3, 2014 at 9:01 pm #

    “Last week, Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk introduced legislation to the country’s parliament to drop its “non-aligned bloc” status, renewing its path to becoming a member of NATO.

    Earlier, NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said that during September’s NATO summit in Wales, the alliance will “take decisions as to how we will enhance our cooperation with Ukraine,” including providing financial assistance for logistics, command and control, cyber defense and aid to military personnel.

    However, NATO regulations do not allow countries involved in territorial disputes to become members, currently is the case with Ukraine, due to its refusal to acknowledge Crimea’s reunification with Russia.”

    Hiya, Broken Record over here…’ver-here…’ver-here,,,’ver-here…

    Rule of Law means exactly shit-all; the rules and the law are changed to suit the circumstance and create artificial advantage. If you internalize this ironclad fact you will learn where to place your trust and (more importantly) where to WITHDRAW it.

    Watch and see how many resolutions and warp-ages of existing law are fooled with to give the Protector of the Petrodollar unprecedented powers to blow the shit out of any enemies of the status quo as can be imagined (whether by boots or by proxy) THIS week. (NATO meets to conspire. What are the odds we’ll get an actual transcript of the proceedings?) The rhetoric he’s been spewing is certainly a blatant “tell” of permissions to come.

    When lies and trickery are all that’s left of official-dom, bitterness and hard-heartedness immediately follow, Fortunately, in their hubris, TPTB have never learned this lesson.

    Well, that’ll do for the short-term troubles! 😉

  72. Florida Power September 3, 2014 at 9:02 pm #

    Cognitive Dissonance File Update:
    Hollande has caved. Ah, to be a fly on the wall in his office…

    • MisterDarling September 3, 2014 at 11:26 pm #

      Well, when you’ve sold out once, the next few are so-oooo-ooo much easier, they say.

  73. progress4what September 3, 2014 at 9:10 pm #

    “Luna, Guadalupe T. “Chasing Treaty Promises.” Berkeley La Raza Law Journal 18.1 (2007): 105-122” – pkrugman –

    Heavy sarcasm warning!
    Wow, pk, what a brilliant logical undoing of a 166 year old treaty between the United States and Mexico – based on the scholarly efforts chronicled in “The Berkeley La Raza Law Journal.” (Seriously? That translates to the “Berkeley The Race Law Journal.” How is a journal like that even ethical or possible? What of Political Correctness?)

    Anyway – following the Scholarly Logic of La Raza, millions of Asians will be leaving California tonight, I suppose. Sarc off.
    And thanks for the laugh~pk.

    And, of course, the larger point stands. The border between the US and Mexico was established by treaty 166 years ago. Twisted logic and legal obfuscations do not change a recognized treaty.

  74. pkrugman September 4, 2014 at 1:40 am #

    P4W* you should not judge by the title of the journal without reading the substance of the article. You openly support anti-immigration groups today in 2014. Racism against immigrants is alive today. You say it is a 166 year old treaty, but as in the past when federal officials allowed states to fracture and counter the federal supremacy of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo and its obligations, federal officials are today once again yielding to state driven measures that prove harmful to Latinas/os. Additionally, the past illustrates an instance in time when federal and state laws disenfranchised newly incorporated residents in annexed territories from their property interests. The Latinas/os of the present are also negotiating a conflicted legal relationship with federal laws. In witnessing excessive and harm inducing state and local measures, Latinas/os are forced to once again challenge the realm of laws that seek their removal from the United States’ geographical base.

    • Florida Power September 4, 2014 at 9:13 am #

      Latinas/os? Oh my…Does this include the LGBT community?

      As for borders and treaties they have always been decided by force of arms and this episode will be no different*, although determining who the opposing sides are based on race or previous citizenship will be a challenge. I for one look forward to the day George Clooney’s gardener shows up for work and tosses George out of his no doubt palatial house. And for the day when the gardener starts paying taxes not to the “state” of California or the “USA” but to Mexico or Spain. If I recall correctly, the original land grants were from the Spanish Crown — since only the King can “own” the land. The grantee was allowed enjoyment of the property and expected to improve and to pay taxes to the Crown for the privilege. (These days the State has replaced the Crown).

      *Of course, the carrying capacity of the Southwest is probably breached in view of the 1000 year drought which may be an on-going fact of climate, and like past humans who abandoned the area, the Latinas/os will be not be exempt and forced to migrate — East? Maybe upstate New York? Jim will have no problem finding labor for his orchard unless they make an ownership claim based on the original Spanish landing that trumps the claims of the other European powers, and expel our host to the wilderness, such as it may still be.

  75. michigan_native September 4, 2014 at 2:15 am #

    Why don’t we shut up and mind our own business?

    Somebody correct me if I am wrong here. From what I have been reading on the internet, this all seems to be yet another desperate act of a dying empire in its death throes, the United States.

    I am reading that Putin supposedly kicked the Rothschilds out of Russia. Being a major part of BRICS nations, they have supposedly set up their own central bank and independent credit rating agency. While the federal reserve supposedly manipulated the price of gold keeping it artificially low in a vain and futile attempt to save the US petrodollar from collapsing, Russia and China and I believe India took advantage of the situation and bought up vast quantities of it.

    They have dropped the US dollar out of their bilateral trade, and other countries, even so called allies of the US, are following suit.

    The net effect has been to weaken the US dollar, and supposedly thereby rendering some of the dirty tricks that the US and their western partners in crime liked to pull on people less effective or downright useless.

    The sanctions don’t have the bite they once had, the IMF and world bank are weakened, and the US can’t force feed its worthless paper federal reserve notes on other countries, that they losing their hegemony around the world as a result.

    So the US is besieged at its borders, in the middle east, the Ukraine, etc its economy in a state of permanent contraction, its dollar on the brink of collapse, so it’s time to demonize Putin and try to provoke a war with Russia by arming neo Nazi terrorists to kill innocent civilians and lob rockets, bombs, mortars, and grenades into civilian areas AND shoot down civilian jetliners like that Malaysian jet with their air force and blame it on the Russians in a deliberate act of raw terrorism in other to get reluctant European and NATO dupes to be good little bitch boys for Uncle Sam and bend over and take it up the ass once again. .

    Commit atrocities, lie about it, blame the Russians, commit more atrocities, create more lies, etc all in a vain, futile, and downright childish if not murderous act to blame Russia for the very problems we created

    The US has no vital interest in the Ukraine, it was just yet another dastardly ploy by the neocons and their stooges to find a scape goat and try to punish Russia for steering a course independent of the status quo. Putin hasn’t yet taken the bait, so now Obama has taken to implying that the Ukraine be incorporated into NATO, while the Ukraine insists that Russia “invaded” the “insurgent” areas in the east just because his rag tag army is getting its ass kicked, so the little faggot bitch boys from Australia and Britain (that cock sucker Cameron, a little rat weasel bastard like Blair before him). Also, the liars, terrorists, and baby killers that target civilians and passenger jets have accused Russia of issuing nuclear threats against them, which all seems to prove to me that they are in fact falling apart and getting desperate http://rt.com/news/184845-ukraine-obama-nato-membership/

    They say this winter is supposed to be colder than the last one. Let us hope and pray Russia cuts off their gas supply altogether or charges them enough to make up for any loss incurred by the sanctions and if they keep acting and lying about the Russian government supposedly supplying “rebels” with military arms, then they may as well go ahead and smash those cock roaches and give that pig faced fat bastard Poroshenko the Mussolini treatment he so much deserves

    Again, somebody correct me if I am wrong. They sy this

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    • MisterDarling September 4, 2014 at 3:05 pm #

      “While the federal reserve supposedly manipulated the price of gold keeping it artificially low in a vain and futile attempt to save the US petrodollar from collapsing, Russia and China and I believe India took advantage of the situation and bought up vast quantities of it.”-MI Native.

      You’re right about this.

      ‘Someone’ has been dumping gold in vast quantities since Spring 2013. No other entity in the world could do this for as long and consistently as the US federal Reserve, so take a guess…

      Where are they coordinating it? They’ve sealed off a floor of the NY Federal Reserves building. Only a select few are allowed entry.

      In the meantime, the BRICS-bloc members have been treating the artificially low price of gold and the other precious metals as a ‘buying opportunity’.

      All this in addition to A coordinated effort by BRICS-bloc nations to a) create and expand bilateral currency-swap agreements with themselves and all their trade partners, and b) set up a (much smaller) IMF alternative.

      The reaction to all that has been predictable: aggression – direct and by proxy.

      If this is a new ‘cold war’ or analogous to the American Civil War, the sides are: Financial Oligarchy vs. Public Sector.

  76. Cold N. Holefield September 4, 2014 at 7:53 am #

    Hollande has caved.

    I’d say he’s come to his senses.

    Bye Bye Deutschland

    • Florida Power September 4, 2014 at 10:05 pm #

      Not so fast there, wry one…

      Even Bloomberg points out a cancellation not only is costly for France, but plays into the hands of the Kremlin Hawks. The ineptitude of the present Western leadership achieves new heights with each passing day.

      • Cold N. Holefield September 5, 2014 at 10:12 am #

        Something smells Vichy.

        He at least came to his senses momentarily. That means there’s some hope for France, albeit too little too late.

        Personally, it’s no skin off my back. I’d find it amusing writing about a Russified France in ten to fifteen years. If you’re going to have breadlines, might as well make it French Bread — it’s worth the wait.

        Many of the pro-Russian commentators, the Communists if you will, talk about Russia’s alleged substantial manufacturing base. This sale seems to fly in the face of that assertion. If Russia is such a manufacturing stud as its proponents claim, where’s the beef? Why buy crappy French junk when you can build your own because you’re a manufacturing stud?

        So many contradictions. The Russian propagandists aren’t bothered by it though. They just keep spewing the propaganda without shame.

        Obama was right — Russia doesn’t make anything hence this transaction. It’s one of the reasons Putin wants Eastern Ukraine — it makes things he wants, but instead of buying it like the rest of the world does, he prefers to steal it with force.

        I think NATO should consider dropping France as a member and let’s see what happens with France then. I mean that seriously. I’m done with France. Fate awaits it. It is no longer a country. The only reason it’s still called France is because of the largesse of American taxpayers, and as Obama has telegraphed, that era is coming to a close. Time for France to step up, and since there really is no France, there will be no stepping up and instead there will be Putin stepping in.

        Bye Bye France — California and Australia have better wines anyway, and your bread can be, and is, bested in other locales. You will be hoisted on your own petard, and this time no one will bail your spineless asses out.

  77. progress4what September 4, 2014 at 9:39 am #

    When the journal has “The Race” in its title – that presupposes bias.

    There is plenty of reason to be anti-immigrant. There is no reason to be racist. This group is the best at explaining the difference, though there are other fine immigration reduction groups.

    It is a 166 year old treaty. The rest of your post is obfuscation.

    And again – my original response was to The Infernal Truthiness of Little Debbie who said, “Mexico has a lot of hard assets in California: taco trucks, cellphone retail outlets, politicians, and marijuana smugglers. Because they were recently part of the same nation, a lot of Mexican-speaking people live in the all-over part of California..”

    And Little Debbie was correct Mexicans own many US politicians and marijuana smugglers, but totally WRONG about that “recently part of California” business.

    Which was what my original post corrected.
    Sorry it woke up the local chapter of “Journal of The Racist.”


    And the fact remains that LEGAL immigration is a far bigger threat to the United States than is illegal immigration.

  78. MisterDarling September 4, 2014 at 10:09 am #

    re | Major Risks

    Hmmm, It’s amusing to see how easily distracted folks will get with relatively low-risk dramas like Ukraine’s brouhaha and the latest Islamic Terror. These are issues that self-neutralize. They’re interesting as indicators of a change in the geo-political positioning.

    OTOH, a real epidemic exploding into a world that’s been taking a dump on the public healthcare for a quarter-century? Now that’s an issue with ‘growth potential’.

    Of course, it all comes down to where it starts: (“Africa? Who Cares? Ho-hum…”).

    Which is why Ebola is now completely out of control.

    And why it’s poised for breakout:


    Breakout to where, you ask?

    Did you notice the volume of traffic going into nations with horrific public health?


    That is why India doesn’t *have* a way to stop a pandemic.

    It’s nice when a nation can reach for the stars. Even better when it steps out of the sewer first.



  79. FincaInTheMountains September 4, 2014 at 10:10 am #

    A new Anaconda Plan against Russia?

    8-year old article in Scottish newspaper might shed some light on current Ukrainian events

    Tuesday 28 November 2006
    SCANDALOUS though the assassination of a former Russian spy was, it’s probably not the principal issue in the minds of western diplomats at this time and it will certainly not be the principal diplomatic issue in the minds of their Russian counterparts.

    This week Nato will declare that it is meeting to consider how the alliance will face future challenges, notably terrorism. Moscow, however, will fear that the real agenda will be about future moves to surround it with potentially hostile neighbours.

    Today the 26 members of Nato will meet in the Latvian capital of Riga. On the table will be proposals to make Nato larger still – having already absorbed bits of the preSoviet Russian empire such as the Baltic republics and ex-Warsaw Pact countries like Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania and, crucially, Poland. Other bits of pre-Soviet Russia are to be added, this time Georgia and the Ukraine.

    Some West Point strategist may have already started to start to draw parallels between the plight of Jefferson Davis, the President of the Confederacy, and the position Vladimir Putin, the President of the Russian Federation, currently finds himself in.

    The Union plan to defeat the Confederacy went by the title of the Anaconda Plan. It was a strategy that was in its essentials applied and adhered to until Lee surrendered. Great chunks of the Confederacy were sliced off, encircled and slowly strangled into submission. Is it entirely unreasonable of Putin and some close to his administration to draw some parallels? If so, is it not at least understandable (which is not the same as excusable) if they get nervous from time to time and do rash things?

    Bill Ramsay, 84 Albert Avenue, Glasgow.

  80. FincaInTheMountains September 4, 2014 at 11:21 am #

    “Anaconda Plan” is exactly what Russian analysts use to describe current events around Russian Federation. To conduct a new Hybrid War against Russia, NATO needed a base of operation. Georgia was tried in 08.08.08 just to miserably fail. NATO strategists thought to themselves: “Wouldn’t be cool to have Russians kill Russians?” and Ukrainian plan was born. (Ukrainian is nothing but stupid, brainwashed Russian. When they smart up, they become Russians again)
    One of the reasons why Putin doesn’t want to take entire Ukraine is he needs to wait while Ukrainians are smarting up. Will probably take winter bitter cold and lack of food in Kiev. Donbass people are the smart ones.

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    • MisterDarling September 4, 2014 at 2:48 pm #

      “Will probably take winter bitter cold and lack of food in Kiev.”-FitM.

      Freezing winter cold is very effective therapy for some people. It clears up their minds…

      Regarding NATO’s grand stratagem du-jour: The member nations may find that themselves distracted by matters closer to home.

      • Janos Skorenzy September 4, 2014 at 11:09 pm #

        Finc said Russia has never had any colonies. Well of course! They just absorbed countries like an amoeba. China’s even worse: “Tibet is part of China and always has been.” Import million of Chinese into said area to make it stick.

  81. FincaInTheMountains September 4, 2014 at 11:42 am #

    How the “Nations” are born

    Metaphysical Doubts Concerning the Existence of Modern Ukraine, a 1918 Creation of the German General Staff


  82. pkrugman September 4, 2014 at 2:12 pm #


    “The defense of Tallinn and Riga and Vilnius is just as important as the defense of Berlin and Paris and London. An attack on one is an attack on all, and so if, in such a moment, you ever ask again, ‘Who’ll come to help?’ you’ll know the answer: the NATO alliance, including the armed forces of the United States of America. “We’ll be here for Estonia, we’ll be here for Latvia, we’ll be here for Lithuania,” the president said. “You lost your independence once before. With NATO, you will never lose it again.” — Obama in Estonia giving Putin a clear message

    No lying or dissembling from Obama, Biden, Hagel, and Kerry yesterday. Just the truth.

    Putin is listening. Putin is now talking about a peace plan, not more war.

    • FincaInTheMountains September 4, 2014 at 3:11 pm #

      Putin ALWAYS talks about peace, remember Syria a year ago? Peace is good for Russian Federation that has ambitious development plans of Siberia and Far East. What development plans do US have? Can’t even bring water to California.

      All you could do is talk about conservation and overpopulation and peak this, and peak that…

    • ozone September 4, 2014 at 6:00 pm #

      You’ve misinterpreted the word. I believe the one you meant to use was “threats”.
      I contend, Mr. Rugman, that you no longer know the thread-count of your moth-eaten products and customers have lost trust in your establishment.
      Any other employment in the offing? Get those resumes out there, chop-chop!

    • Florida Power September 4, 2014 at 10:49 pm #

      This trenchant analysis emanates from the same source that earlier suggested Netanyahu is confused about the various players in the Middle East, and seems unaware Hezbollah fights with Iran and Assad against Isis. Shoot, give him a call and let him know before it’s too late.

      “Putin is listening.” That’s a hoot. Listening to whom? The same crowd that deposed the legally-elected corrupt president and installed their own corrupt toadies? These busybodies are proving the Law of Unintended Consequences. Maybe Kerry’s mouth will continue to run on at some point and he will give Putin a diplomatic opening as with Syria. With luck Ukraine will fade from the headlines and we can enjoy the next Unreality episode elsewhere — maybe pivot back to Asia and start aggravating the Chinese. Seems to me they haven’t been insulted near enough lately.

  83. Janos Skorenzy September 4, 2014 at 11:04 pm #

    Any Orlov scholars in the house? What does he say about Ukraine, Putin, Dugin, and Russia’s seeming desire towards a resurgent Empire? Does the Master of Collapse have any ideal about straying small, and staying true to one’s culture?

    We are getting a very unbalanced point of view from Finc, but it may well be their official point of view. Are they starting to play the Troll game too? In any case, it’s sad how many people here are indulging him. Still haven’t outgrown the politics as usual sport. Of course the idealistic people tend to be bat shit crazy with an ideology of race suicide for Whites and their culture. Even the acceptable status quo is better than that.

    Heard that Elizabeth Warren came out for a crusade against ISIS. She’s no better than Hillary or Obama or Bush or Cheney.

    • FincaInTheMountains September 5, 2014 at 7:49 am #

      “We are getting a very unbalanced point of view from Finc”

      Are you getting a very balanced point of view from mainstream mass media, Janos?

      Just throwing my two bits on the other lever of the scale.

      • Janos Skorenzy September 5, 2014 at 5:22 pm #

        You just admitted that you’re AS unbalanced as the Western Media. I rest my case.

        Why not tell the simple truth? But that might not be much to your liking nor have much to do with the historic Russian nation. You dream of Empire – as does Oceania and East Asia. Many in Russia seem to be going down this oft tried and failed road.

        To reiterate, I’m not against Putin per se or the legitimate claims of Russia. He is a far greater leader than any of the vicious non-entities that lead the Western World right now. I just don’t think he knows what’s best of Russia long term. In the short term, many of his reforms have been good.

  84. progress4what September 4, 2014 at 11:05 pm #

    ” I don’t expect to sell any cattle here but thought reading about our infrastructure , rattlesnake fights and wildlife management would shed a new light on how some of us are already working” in a world made by hands”. I think we will be ready when what-ever-is-going-to-happen does happen. We welcome visitors if any of you ever get this far into the country.” – cowboy –

    That’s a nice website, a good looking ranch, and some good looking bulls and cows, cowboy. I appreciate you posting. And yeah – you guys look pretty well positioned to survive in Texas if anybody does. If you’ve got decent land and good water, cattle represent renewable wealth and real wealth – not the digital and paper kind that emanates from DC and Wall Street.

    I’ve always had a soft spot in my heart for cows. My granddad had a nice little herd, and a real good bull. I’d help him with his as well as a kid could. And I’ve built at least a couple of miles of fence and done a little cattle work through the years helping neighbors and other relatives.

    So, I appreciate the invite to take a look at your place. I might just take you up on it if I ever get out that way again. I had an uncle in Port Arthur, but he passed away. And we’ve got family and friends on the Left Coast. But you are now the only person I “know” from Texas. And this led me to complete a mental exercise involving coming out to your place if zombies or some other Southeastern apocalypse forced me and my family to evacuate Georgia.

    We would put a lot of machinery on the road at first. And we’d be travelling with at least 9 people, including my wife, a couple of sons, a daughter in law, a girlfriend in law, a couple of little kids, and a 90 year old mother in law. We’d be in a SUV pulling a flat-bed trailer, my pickup, and a Jeep Wrangler. And, boy, could we leave with a lot of useful gear, from hand tools to power tools, come-alongs, wire stretchers, and an ATV.

    So we’d be heading west, post zombies, the 950 miles from my home town to your ranch. We could have driven it pre-zombie in, maybe, 16 easy hours – but we waited too late in this mental exercise. I guess it would take about a month to cover the distance, post zombie. We’d move along, trading gear for gas and food. We’d be lucky to arrive at your place with just the Wrangler. You’d be able to recognize us because the 9 of us would be hanging all over that Wrangler, like a litter of half-grown ‘possums on the back their momma.

    Or maybe we’d have to trade almost all that gear away. We’d try to hold on to a couple of rifles and a box of bullets. Those, and a pair of work gloves for all hands, we’d be sure to keep. In that case, you’d see us walking into your driveway in a loose family-style tactical formation, rifle barrels slung down. I’ll be the old, tall guy walking point. The mother-in-law will be the one pushing the walker. You’ll be able to recognize us because we’ll be the ones holding work gloves in the air.

    Of course, if the phones are working, we’ll call first. haha!

    Thanks for posting, cowboy. And thanks to all for indulging my mental exercise.

    • FincaInTheMountains September 5, 2014 at 11:32 am #

      For those who didn’t know, “finca” is a Spanish word for “farm”. My dairy farm is 800 feet above the sea level in the North Coast of island of Hispaniola.

      If not for dismal poverty, bad roads and extremely high cost of fuel, would be just like Switzerland, but always warm.

  85. pkrugman September 5, 2014 at 12:27 am #

    “Putin ALWAYS talks about peace…” — Finca

    Putin’s actions speak louder than his words, and nobody believes his bullshit anymore. Putin is now just one step short of a full Russian invasion of eastern Ukraine, and Russia is already suffering serious economic sanctions. Take that last step, and it’s back to the Cold War — a war that Russia would ultimately lose, and it wouldn’t take 40 years this time either. That is the truth of the matter.

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  86. Janos Skorenzy September 5, 2014 at 1:11 am #

    A five hour documentary about Hitler – probably the most important ever made. There can be no excuse for ignorance with this available for free.


  87. FincaInTheMountains September 5, 2014 at 7:22 am #

    Novorossians used same tactics Mongols used against the Medieval Europeans

    …Kiev then decided that the smartest thing to do was to wage war on the citizens of the eastern regions of Donetsk and Luhansk to win their hearts and minds back to their illegally imposed masters in Kiev. This piece of genius from the Kiev fascists sparked an armed defense from the citizens against the shelling of their towns and cities.

    A retired Russian colonel, Igor Strelkov, appeared amongst the eastern Ukrainians (henceforth called Novorossians) and organised them into a citizens militia and led them brilliantly against the fascist Kiev junta forces.

    It became quickly obvious that the militia were very effective by inflicting a disproportionate number of casualties on the junta forces and capturing arms, ammunition and heavy equipment including some tanks. The militia were organised into what is known as Saboteur-Reconnaissance Groups (SRG’s). These are lightly armed and very mobile. They survive by not remaining in one place long enough to attract enemy artillery.

    But how were they so effective against a trained army that far outnumbered them? In battle reports, a criticism kept recurring. The junta battle formations would advance without protecting their flanks and would find themselves surrounded by the NAF and in the middle of what became ‘killing fields’. But how could SRG’s do this? Well, the SRG’s acted together in formations and these formations went undetected (it seems) by the junta forces till it was too late.

    There was a very simple tactic that the Mongols used very effectively against the Medieval Europeans time and time again and it appears to me that the NAF employed the same simple tactic with the same devastating results. The Mongols would send a group of warriors against a walled town or city and attack the gates. The local lord’s forces, who were forewarned of the Mongols’ advance, had barricaded themselves inside their siege proof walls. The local forces would rain down arrows, spears and anything they could find onto the Mongols below.

    After a short while the Mongols would turn-tail and would scamper off and over the nearest hill. The local lord seeing this would order the drawbridge lowered and would set off with his troops in pursuit of the Mongols confident he had them beat. All went well until they rode over the hill where the Mongols had prepared a three sided trap with a much larger force. The forth side was closed behind the arrogant and stupid lord’s forces and a massacre ensued after which the Mongols rode into the city and took uncontested possession of it.

    I think this is exactly what the NAF have done with the junta forces. The NAF would engage the junta army with a SRG and then retreat causing the Kiev knuckleheads to follow in hot pursuit stretching their supply lines, leaving their flanks unprotected and into the killing field set for them. They did this time and again. These traps became known as “cauldrons”. All this was done with very few men.

    It was often remarked that the NAF forces were made up of middle aged men. “Where were the young men who should be along side them fighting for their land and families?” They were in Russia. Many families which included young men were evacuated to the Rostov area of Russia where, once their young families were safe, they were trained by the Russian armed forces to return to Novorossia when the time came.

    It was all part of an overall strategy that proved costly but devastatingly effective during WWII. While Russian forces with little equipment and ammunition held on for interminable months of siege in major Russian cities such as Leningrad and Stalingrad, the Soviet government was training and equipping divisions of troops in the east. When the siege defenders were almost done (and hence maximum damage and exhaustion extracted from the Germans) the fresh divisions stormed westward and overran the German army.

    The same strategy was employed in this Ukrainian civil war but in a much more limited and condensed way. When the time came to go from the SRG/Mongol tactic to the WWII offensive strategy, Strelkov was relieved of command to make way for a whole new command group that had been trained along with the newly trained Novorossian volunteers. Alexander Zakharchenko and Vladimir Kononov took over and announced the arrival of 1200 trained volunteers to the ranks (I think it is safe to say that there are many more than 1200 and that there are even more on the way). These volunteers were trained in operating tanks and artillery. The offensive was about to begin.

    The junta forces have all been drawn to the east of Ukraine and have been decimated. By the time the offensive is complete, there will likely be no Ukrainian Army or other “punitive” forces in effective existence. This will leave the way open for the Novorossians, like the Mongols before them, to stroll into Kiev without resistance.

    • MisterDarling September 5, 2014 at 2:56 pm #


      I think that you might like to read some of H. John Poole’s books (Tactics of the Crescent Moon, for instance).

      He walks the reader through all of what you describe, and then he grounds it in theory… and then he outlines training program(s) developed from it.

      If you haven’t read it already, it might be rewarding to do so.

  88. FincaInTheMountains September 5, 2014 at 7:35 am #

    For the reference: Mongols(Tatars), former bitter enemies of Russians, now a successful part of Russian Federation. They have their own autonomous Republic of Tatarstan with capital of Kazan. Tatars are predominantly Muslims.

    • Janos Skorenzy September 5, 2014 at 5:30 pm #

      Oh and think they might have some sympathies with the Chechens? If they don’t already, they will at some point. Radical Islam (which seems to be the original Islam) is sweeping into all Muslim lands – even previously moderate ones like Indonesia.

      Face it: Dugin/Rasputin’s Eurasianism is madness. But you seem to be identifying with the Mongols. Is that it? Lenin had some of this blood and the Jews themselves are largely a Khazar or Turkic people. Needless to say this is all alien to the real Russian people who are White and Christian. And look what they did to White Christians during the Communist Revolution when they had power. Does the word Holodomor mean anything to you?

  89. BackRowHeckler September 5, 2014 at 10:49 am #

    Hows the Ebola situation?

    under control?

    or getting loose thru out the world?

    Top this.

    The Somali ‘American’ from Minnesota who was killed in Iraq last week fighting for ISIS left behind 4 wives and 12 or more kids –AND THEY’RE ALL ON WELFARE!

    After all, they lost their husband (and father) in combat.


  90. pkrugman September 5, 2014 at 12:40 pm #

    BRH, Obama engineered a surge to take care of millions who had no health care with his successful Obamacare program (which also had the benefit of a reduced deficit).

    Obama engineered a surge in border patrol to take care of the children trying to reunite with their mothers though congress was uncooperative.

    Obama engineered the sanctions against Russia which caused Putin to suddenly write down a seven point peace plan.

    Now Obama is engineering a coalition for a surge against ISIS.

    While doing all of that Obama also has a host of other positive accomplishments that will be recognized one day… for veterans, seniors, children, the environment, etc.

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  91. BackRowHeckler September 5, 2014 at 12:55 pm #

    This Obama fellow sounds like quite a chap.

    Sounds like he should be up for some sort of prize, the Nobel Peace Prize maybe.

    I’d say he deserves it.


  92. FincaInTheMountains September 5, 2014 at 1:13 pm #

    Donetsk Self-Defense Forces Declare Ceasefire

    DONETSK, September 5 (RIA Novosti) – The self-defense forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic have ceased fire Friday, in line with the agreement reached in Minsk earlier in the day, a military source told RIA Novosti.
    “In line with the Minsk agreements, we ceased fire at 18:00 [local time, 15:00 GMT]. All units were informed about this decision,” he said.

    • MisterDarling September 5, 2014 at 4:14 pm #

      Well, it’s about time.

      Of course, neocons spin this as the result of ‘sanctions’ (sans a shred of evidence) and as a result of the POTUS’s tireless efforts to bring ‘peace’ (in stark contravention to the documentation of recent events).


      Check of the French Mistral-class ‘Amphibious Assault Ship’ that’s currently held in escrow – until “conditions” are right, that is…


      Really check out the stats, capacity, click on a picture and enjoy the slideshow.

      It’s a pretty nifty little nugget of post-industrial war-craftiness.

      It *looks* like the kind of thing that you might to use in support of an multinational ‘peace-keeping’ mission…

      OR… And I’m just ‘spit-ballin’ here… :)) … the kind of vessel you could use to support a large number of proxy-war ‘insurgents’ from 100km off a coastline somewhere.

      Just a thought.


      • MisterDarling September 5, 2014 at 4:16 pm #

        EDIT: “check out the…”

      • ozone September 5, 2014 at 7:26 pm #

        Speaking of that nifty bit of kit, the Mistral, in the context of “rules”, “laws” and “contracts”, here’s something that’s been puzzling me from the beginning of being aware of its’ supposedly controversial construction:

        (Paul Craig Roberts)
        “…the socialist president of France has followed Washington’s orders and refused to deliver a ship that it owes to Russia under contract. The news reports are so incompetent that they do not say whether Russia has paid for the ship or whether payment was awaiting completion. If Russia has not already paid, then the failure to deliver will harm whoever financed the construction of the ship. If Russia has paid, then the idiot French president has placed France in violation of a contract and under international law France is subject to heavy financial penalties.

        It is not clear how this hurts Russia. It is Russia’s strategic nuclear force that the West has to fear, not a helicopter carrier. What Hollande has taught Russia is not to do business with France or any country in NATO.

        Russia should promptly take the contract violation to court. Either France will be sanctioned with penalties that could exceed the value of the contract or the West will prove that in its hands international law is meaningless. If I were Russia, I would give up a helicopter ship in order to establish this point.”

        Why doesn’t NATO simply admit that rules, treaties and all the rest of that contractual stuff means exactly squat, and that “it” will do whatever the fuck it feels like? Isn’t that how it’s gonna be anyway? Whose support are they attempting to garner with this blatant lying and paper trickery? The general public?? That would be giving the lumpenprole even less credit than they deserve… which is pretty damn difficult!! (It might finally be peak pretend as well as everything else.)
        —-Oh, excuse me, a text just came in and I’ve got a tweet to twitter to the other twits—
        Uh, when the russkies get freedomed and democrafied, and surrender their resources to us, there’ll be lots of goodies and high-paying jobs where we won’t have to really do any work; just net-surf and text… right?

        • MisterDarling September 6, 2014 at 1:58 am #

          “What Hollande has taught Russia is not to do business with France or any country in NATO.”-Oz.

          France is still smarting from having one of their top-of-the-line banks fined and penalized by the US for violating – not French Law, no – US law, earlier this year.

          It ticked them off enough to consider signing a anti-petrodollar currency-swap agreement.

          Now, this claptrap.

          There will come a time when tolerating US dictates will not ‘pen out’ for France. You can bet that when that day comes…

          “Why doesn’t NATO simply admit that rules, treaties and all the rest of that contractual stuff means exactly squat, and that “it” will do whatever the fuck it feels like? Isn’t that how it’s gonna be anyway?”-Oz.

          Anyone not aware of the fact that NATO’s word means exactly squat hasn’t been paying attention for the past two decades.

          There’s a reason that NATO has a relevance problem: their reps are a bunch of shifty-eyed policy hacks that cannot be trusted any farther than they can be thrown.

          This is one of the many reasons they consistently fail in the world’s actual ‘hotspots’.

          There’s just no percentage in listening to them.

          Look at what it’s response is now: jumping into the fray a day late and two dollars short, with a pittance in terms of committed military assets, and the promise of arms to upgrade the Kiev juntas forces.

          The root of the problem is that the nation driving the alliance is run by committees of oligarchs working at cross purposes, with a long track-record of failure at ‘rescuing’ nations in need.

  93. MisterDarling September 5, 2014 at 2:40 pm #

    If anyone _d e s e r v e d_ this. It’s the folks of the IS:


    • FincaInTheMountains September 5, 2014 at 4:50 pm #

      Is there moral advantage of burning alive bunch of people with Hellfire missile by remote control while filming it on military-grade camera so that the big man in white house can get off on the images versus cutting somebody’s head off while filming it on consumer-grade camera for u-tube flick?

      • MisterDarling September 5, 2014 at 6:14 pm #

        “Is there moral advantage of burning alive bunch of people with Hellfire missile by remote control while filming it on military-grade camera so that…:-FitM.

        Nope. None at all.

        “If” was the critical word in my statement. War is stupidity sweepstakes. It’s extravagantly wasteful. It’s been my experience that there’s always a better way to get something done besides all-out warfare.

        ‘Morality’ doesn’t come into the picture, except to be desecrated by getting hypocritically cited on both sides of a conflict.

        For the sake of clarity: I wasn’t in favor of invading Iraq. I agreed with the large number of military and intelligence community people who said it was going to be counterproductive, would destabilize the region, and would generate an *explosion* of extremist behavior… Which is what happened.

        But, if you’re going to go out speak the Language of Warfare to someone, it might as well be to those that claim proficiency, so…

        By the way, Hellfire missiles generally don’t burn people alive. They blow them up and distribute their half-cooked body parts in in a 100m radius… UNLESS you fire a bunch of them into a Panamanian slum [1] composed entirely of flammable material… *Then*, you might get some “human torch” action.

        — — —

        [1] re: ‘Just Cause’ back in ’89.

      • Janos Skorenzy September 5, 2014 at 7:13 pm #

        Most people here don’t need this but you obviously do. People need to get back to basics with you and stop engaging you in details since you are so wrong about the fundamentals.


        In other words, both Russia and the West are signing their death warrants by allowing large numbers of Muslims to live within their borders.

  94. pkrugman September 6, 2014 at 2:27 am #

    “…the Nobel Peace Prize maybe…” –BRH

    BRH, your praise of Obama is admirable and you are right that the Nobel Peace Prize was well deserved… but Obama got the peace prize before his great achievements as president.

    While he was a senator from Illinois Obama did some groundbreaking work with Dick Lugar on rounding up loose nukes that could end up in the hands of terrorists and make a big bang at the Boston marathon or maybe in another part of Massachusetts near where you live. Obama got the peace prize for saving you from nuclear terrorism in Massachusetts.

    The work Obama is doing now against ISIS is so you don’t get your head cut off in Massachusetts.

    I don’t expect you feel grateful to Obama for keeping you alive. You won’t give him any credit at all. But Obama has prevented another 9/11 from happening on American soil. Cheney was wrong when he said we would be attacked within six months of Obama taking office. Cheney would have been wrong if he had said the first six years of Obama.

    Obama has prevented the kind of attack that Bush could not defend the country against. Bush failed. Obama has succeeded.

    Bush closed down the Bin Laden hunt. Obama persevered until he succeeded. Now Obama will do the same in destroying ISIS, a group you think is so vicious. You are wrong. ISIS will disrobe and run when confronted with real resistance. ISIS will be destroyed by Obama and the coalition Obama is creating.

    Remember Obama said “we don’t have a strategy YET” … because strategy cannot be developed until you gather resources and know who all your allies are and what they commit to do. Obama will have a strategy soon. And eventually ISIS will fade from the headlines, just as Al Qaeda has faded, the Taliban have faded, and all the other little terrorist groups have faded under Obama’s relentless drone and Hellfire targeted attacks on their leadership.

    Bush failed and those who voted for Bush were suckered into thinking he could protect the country.

    Obama succeeded in killing Bin Laden and killing Al Qaeda and Taliban operatives. Those who voted for Obama did not waste their votes because Obama has shown how competent he is, not by giving “good speech” but by producing verifiable results. No 9/11 on his watch.

    Obama stopped Putin in his tracks and pressured Putin to the point that Putin is now pleading for peace. Putin has seen the writing on the wall.

    CFN common wisdom was that Kiev would fall and Putin would take over Ukraine. Didn’t happen. Won’t happen. Instead there is a ceasefire.

    What has happened, thanks to Obama, is that NATO is stronger and more united than ever and Putin will not be doing anything belligerent against former USSR countries. There will be no “New Russia” with former satellites annexed by Putin. Obama went to Estonia and spelled it out in words Putin could understand.

    Putin’s back is against the wall. Obama has him exactly where he wants him.

    • Lisa September 6, 2014 at 9:28 am #

      I’m not sure the truth would be out during our time. But one cannot lie to everyone forever, and eventually the truth about US supporting nazis in Ukraine will be known widely. As to “Putin against the wall” – he has Crimea. He does not want anything else. Even Donbas.



      • Lisa September 6, 2014 at 9:31 am #

        And, by the way, I voted for Obama twice. I was hoping for change, it did change – for the worst. I’m done voting!

        • Janos Skorenzy September 6, 2014 at 2:55 pm #

          What about Elizabeth Warren? She’s a woman! (kind of). And not only that, but a Native American! (hardly).

          Seriously though, I commend you in your resolve. If everyone who had voted for Obama or Bush took themselves off the voting rolls, the tiny minority of truly qualified people remaining could elect someone half way good. We could get rid of parties – which were only created to fund idiots and convince other idiots to vote for them. The Founders were utterly against “factions”.

      • Janos Skorenzy September 6, 2014 at 2:58 pm #

        What you called the “Nazis” are the Ukrainian Nationalists – the people who reject both empires. In other words, the people of integrity.Your ability to get everything so completely wrong is both very feminine and completely American. America is a Matriarchy.

      • MisterDarling September 6, 2014 at 3:39 pm #

        Hi Lisa,

        You may find these interesting.

        MW on the situation (in Ukraine):


        PCR on same:


        • Lisa September 6, 2014 at 8:43 pm #

          Thank you MisterDarling

          I follow Paul Craig Roberts and Ron Paul, I also read a few more writings by other political analysts. And in my humble opinion we are way into the Long Emergency without a possibility to turn back – we are burning the bridges.

          • MisterDarling September 7, 2014 at 1:10 pm #

            “we are way into the Long Emergency without a possibility to turn back” –Lisa.

            Agreed. And ‘we’ are in the process of denying it.

            “we are burning the bridges.”-Lisa.

            Hmm, I thought the ‘Bridge-Burning’ was part of the after-dinner entertainment? Such a cheery light!



    • stelmosfire September 6, 2014 at 10:22 am #

      Well PK , you’ve got your facts mixed up, BRH, aka Marlin. is in CT. that would be a different state than MA. Look at your map if you even have one. O-Bomber likes to sit back and drone people, (men, women, and children) Kill ’em all and let God sort them out as the old saying goes. Let’s get the H### out of these places and mind our own damn affairs. Did you ever see a picture of the corpse of Hussein? of course not. There are none. We don’t need no Steenkin’ foreign entanglements , as someone who actually had a brain said years past.

    • Florida Power September 6, 2014 at 2:17 pm #

      This is laugh-out-loud hilarious! Thank You PK for making the day just a little bit lighter!

  95. FincaInTheMountains September 6, 2014 at 6:39 am #

    NATO summit: the mouse that roared

    It’s too early to call this one since it’s not over yet, but so far hot air and a general impression of irrelevance seems to be the only result from this summit. First, the US and the UK have announced more sanctions which makes me wonder about the other countries. Now they say the that US and EU will impose sanctions, but we know that the Czechs and Slovaks have promised to veto any such move. But even if they do, this will be more of the kind of symbolic nonsense like banning Russian banks (who are leaving anyway) or Russian officials (who now see that as a mark of great honor). The goofiest idea came from, what else, the British who want to cut Russia off the SWIFT network. Which makes the Russians wonder how the EU wants to pay for its gas. Oh, and then there is this 10’000 men rapid reaction force whose creation is supposed to terrify the Kremlin. Let me tell you, as a military analyst, that rapid reaction forces are – by definition – not something you can use in a conventional war against a continental power like Russia with large number of men, artillery and armor. That is absolutely laughable. But even better is this: while the US and EU are discussing the creation of this force, Putin has already given the order to DOUBLE the size of the Russian Airborne Forces which, by the way, are superior (in training, equipment and capabilities) to any comparable western force, bar none.

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    • Janos Skorenzy September 6, 2014 at 3:00 pm #

      In other words, Eurasia good. Oceania bad. Russian Empire good. American Empire bad.

  96. themisanthrope September 6, 2014 at 9:14 am #

    “Why don’t we just shut up and mind our own business?”

    We appear to be incapable. Perhaps it’s because our own business is so fucked up. It’s always easier to diagnose and “fix” the problems of others than it is the problems of one’s own, I suppose.

    Then again, and as always, there’s way too much money to be made by a select few continuing with business as usual. Unfortunately, the flow of money does not follow the flow of heat; rather, the opposite.

  97. Being There September 6, 2014 at 10:04 am #

    You know it’s coming, guys….You know I can’t resist sharing my favorite Orwell quote.

    This is for our Global Neoliberal Military/Financial hegemony blitz and our own internal disaster of a war economy.

    Oh, yeah. How wants to be an empire? Who put out the Wolfowitz doctrine that says no competition from any country? Who believes they can win a limited nuclear war and is surrounding Russia with ABMs in it’s former satellites?
    Who Indeed? (As usual we are the I know you are but what am I jungle fighters)

    This is for global neoliberalism/neoconservatism and the “lying liars” who perpetrate it……

    We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right.  Intellectually, it is possible to carry on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually on a battlefield.
    • —George Orwell (1946)

    Let’s see where our destructive foreign and national policy leads us….

    Jim, I think we really are in the Long Emergency now!

    • Janos Skorenzy September 6, 2014 at 3:18 pm #

      That quote perfectly describes Feminism, a cult dedicated to female supremacy via lies, slander, and fraud, rather well.

      Liz Warren is down with crushing Isis. The whole mainstream spectrum from right to left now is. The majority is never right about anything. Democracy is not viable. We need Great Men not people people panderers.

  98. FincaInTheMountains September 6, 2014 at 11:39 am #

    Is West loosing its creative abilities?

    Gaddafi`s Great Man-Made River

    It was Muammar Gaddafi`s dream to provide fresh water for all Libyans and to make Libya self-sufficient in food production.

    Libyans called it the eighth wonder of the world. Western media called it a pet project and the pipe dream of a mad dog. The “mad dog” himself in 1991 prophetically said about the largest civil engineering venture in the world.

    The Libyan Jamahiriya government conducted the initial feasibility studies in 1974, and in 1983 the Great Man-Made River Authority was set up. This fully government funded project was designed in five phases, each of them largely separate in itself, but which eventually would combine to form an integrated system. As water in Gaddafi’s Libya was regarded to be a human right, there has not been any charge on the people, nor were any international loans needed for the almost $30 billion cost of the project.

    At the time of the NATO-led war against Libya in 2011, three phases of the Great Man-Made River Project were completed. The first and largest phase, providing two million cubic metres of water a day along a 1,200 km pipeline to Benghazi and Sirte, was formally inaugurated in August 1991. Phase II includes the delivery of one million cubic metres of water a day to the western coastal belt and also supplies Tripoli. Phase III provides the planned expansion of the existing Phase I system, and supplies Tobruk and the coast from a new wellfield.

    The ‘rivers’ are a 4000-kilometer network of 4 meters diameter lined concrete pipes, buried below the desert sands to prevent evaporation. There are 1300 wells, 500,000 sections of pipe, 3700 kilometers of haul roads, and 250 million cubic meters of excavation. All material for the project was locally manufactured. Large reservoirs provide storage, and pumping stations control the flow into the cities.

    The last two phases of the project should involve extending the distribution network together. When completed, the irrigation water from the Great Man-Made River would enable about 155,000 hectares of land to be cultivated. Or, as Gaddafi defined, the project would make the desert as green as the flag of the Libyan Jamahiriya.

    July 22 2011. A date for humanity to remember. NATO hit the Libyan water supply pipeline. It will take months to repair. Then on Saturday they hit the pipeline factory producing pipes to repair it.

    We see that repeating pattern of destroying the civil infrastructure by the West again and again, latest installment in Donbass, S.E.Ukraine.

    At the same time USA fails to realize the NAWAPA project, that was designed in 60s by Military Core of Engineers to bring Alaskan water to Western American States.

    • stelmosfire September 6, 2014 at 12:23 pm #

      So why do we mess with the natural hydraulic system? Water is where it is. People can’t live in the desert. It is SAND. Where I live the snow melts and the water flows down the hills. It’s called gravity. Plus 40 something inches of rain a year. Too many people and no water is one of the problems today. No water no people Simple as that. Vegas can suck wind as far as I am concerned. Who in their right mind would build a city in the desert, unless you had a rain forest fed river handy? Can anybody say ,resource scarcity?

      • stelmosfire September 6, 2014 at 12:30 pm #

        “The ‘rivers’ are a 4000-kilometer network of pipes 4 meters in diameter buried below the desert sands to prevent evaporation. There are 1300 wells, 500,000 sections of pipe, 3700 kilometers of haul roads, and 250 million cubic meters of excavation. All material for the project were locally manufactured. Large reservoirs provide storage, and pumping stations control the flow into the cities.”
        250,000,000 cu meters of excavation , I suppose that was done with camels? 500,000 sections of concrete pipe made from what? cement fired in oil fueled kilns? All to provide a wasteland with water that will evaporate as soon as it hits the desert sand? Get real and look at the big picture.

        • stelmosfire September 6, 2014 at 12:36 pm #

          Does the phrase “Depleted Aquifer” ring a bell? When it is gone it is gone pretty much forever. Wells actually do run dry if over exploited. Think Ogallala, in the breadbasket


      • BackRowHeckler September 6, 2014 at 3:14 pm #

        Hey Rip theres about 50 million people in Las Vegas, Los Angeles and the Inland Empire which is all desert. Where the water comes from to keep everybody alive i can’t figure out.

  99. FincaInTheMountains September 6, 2014 at 12:48 pm #

    stelmosfire, exactly my point.

  100. FincaInTheMountains September 6, 2014 at 12:54 pm #

    “Water is where it is”, stelmosfire

    Well, than, obviously water is in your kitchen tap and toilet bowl.

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    • stelmosfire September 6, 2014 at 2:36 pm #

      Well it is also in my 1000 gallon syrup tanks which drain off my roof, and in my 13000 gallon pool which I also fill from the rain water runoff. nobody used the pool much this year because we didn’t really have a summer. It is warmer now than it has been for most of the summer. I call it my plastic pond , as compared to the CEMENT pond that Jed Clampett had in the Beverly Hillbillies! Just insurance in case of no water.

      • Janos Skorenzy September 6, 2014 at 2:49 pm #

        Isn’t that a lot of weight on your roof?

        The best idea is to bring gigantic icebergs up from Antarctica or the North Pole.

        • stelmosfire September 7, 2014 at 7:51 am #

          GUTTERS DRAIN OFF THE ROOF into the garden tanks, come on Vlad, you know better than that . Water is 7500 lbs per 1000 gal. even my 100 year old New England house ,with solid 2×6 Chestnut rafters could not hold that load for long. As far as the13,000 gallon pool even you would realize it sits on terra firma. Its Gone green now and ready to close. But I would drink it without hesitation. With proper treatment of course. Your welcome to a cup if your thirsty. Just knock on the gate and give up arms first.HAHAHA

      • FincaInTheMountains September 6, 2014 at 3:05 pm #

        “250,000,000 cu meters of excavation , I suppose that was done with camels?” stelmosfire

        Just curious, how many camels did it take to put 1000 gallon tank on the roof and build a 13,000 gallon pool?

        • MisterDarling September 6, 2014 at 3:53 pm #

          Hi Fitm!

          (sorry to interrupt gentlemen)

          Here’s a little data. What does this suggest to you?

          Russia’s Imports:


          Russia’s Exports:


          • FincaInTheMountains September 6, 2014 at 4:12 pm #

            And what that data suggests to you?


            US Arms Sales – 26.9 Billion
            Russia Arms Sales – 29.7 Billion

            Good military-industrial complex indicates healthy scientific-industrial potential, but Russia does have to work on selling more finished goods and less crude energy.

            Hope sanctions will help.

        • stelmosfire September 7, 2014 at 8:00 am #

          FinCain, My pool is 40 years old, all aluminum, I bought it used in ’79 and removed and repurposed it myself. Made in the USA, no Camels involved. Gutters also made in the USA and syrup tanks form an old sugared Vermonter who gave up the ghost and shed his equip on craisgslist. cheap. I’m a born and bred Yankee and don’t waste shit. It drives my wife nuts!!

      • FincaInTheMountains September 6, 2014 at 3:10 pm #

        “which I also fill from the rain water runoff”
        Very good idea – I use it too on my farm to provide drinking water to cows. Tremendously cut the costs of pumping. Plan to do the same in the house – lately the local water utility was turning the water on once for 6 hours every 4 – 5 days.

        But I thought it was illegal in States to use rain water runoff.

  101. pkrugman September 6, 2014 at 1:13 pm #

    “Well PK , you’ve got your facts mixed up, BRH, aka Marlin. is in CT. that would be a different state than MA.” — Stelmosfire

    Thank you for that correction. I’m relatively new here so I’m still learning.

    • BackRowHeckler September 6, 2014 at 3:08 pm #

      Relatively new?

      You’re an old hand at this

      Come on Asoka, stop bustin our you know whats’s

      Then again, what the hell difference does it make.

      carry on.

      Marlin Williams

      • beantownbill. September 6, 2014 at 10:45 pm #

        Dang! I was thinking the same thing, but you beat me to it.

  102. FincaInTheMountains September 6, 2014 at 1:14 pm #


  103. volodya September 6, 2014 at 2:03 pm #

    Being There, what after all is “ideology” all about? Half truths, lies, screaming lies. We have people spouting delusional ideology in the media, in universities, in this commentary.

    Why do they do it? Maybe some people believe the nonsense they’re spouting. But maybe there’s other motives. Maybe they do it to protect their own wealth and position in society or that of their paymaster. Sometimes people are paid to lie. We’ve seen that in this comments section.

    Or maybe they’re so invested career-wise in a falsehood that they can’t contemplate an about-face. Even when facts are in direct and obvious contradiction. You see it happen in the scientific community ALL the time. And in the business world too.

    And especially politics. In politics it becomes a tribal matter. If you’re a respectable Republican you MUST believe that Saddam had WMDs. To your last day and with your last, dying breath you will say it. And that he was involved in 9/11.

    And BOTH Republicans AND Democrats believe that the 9/11 terrorists came across the border from Canada. You know, blame those un-American pussies up north for harboring bad guys. All the time you hear people torturing facts in vociferously defending Dubya/Obama/Bill/Hillary.

    And who came up with the idea that the only legitimate objective of a business corporation is maximizing shareholder value or profit maximization? Utterly astonishing that such tripe would get any respectability in the academic world or the wider community. Even a cursory look at such an assertion would, among non-insane, reasonable people, run into so many objections and so quickly as to lead to a dismissive shit-canning. But here we are listening to it.

    There’s lots of reasons for civilizations to fail. Sometimes it’s because of resource depletion, sometimes a shifting climate, overpopulation, disease, invasion. But civilizations can also fail because people refuse to see and spend a lifetime studiously NOT seeing, as Orwell would say, what’s plainly under their nose. Especially if their pay packet depends on their not seeing it. Which is where we’re at right about now. IMO that is.

    • MisterDarling September 6, 2014 at 3:13 pm #

      “But civilizations can also fail because people refuse to see and spend a lifetime studiously NOT seeing, as Orwell would say, what’s plainly under their nose. Especially if their pay packet depends on their not seeing it.”-volodya.

      And your opinion is correct, regarding this.

      Civilizations result from some winning combination or resources and processes, time moves on, the combination begins to fail, the elite created by the now maladaptive old status-quo doubles and triples down on their investment (stuck in a fallacious sunken-cost loop) – and they succeed in accelerating their own doom.

      Every empire had a ‘1%’. Every single one of them nurtured and sustained self-serving mythologies about why they had what they had, and what’s more, why they *deserved* it.

      Until of course the inevitable…

      These people don’t get the F**k out of the way of History by _reasoning_ with them. They simply do no listen. If they did, they wouldn’t have to get out of the way, they would (paraphrasing Nixon) spot the wave of the future, jump up on their boards and ride it.

      Such people are rare. The rest waste their time and everyone else’s trying to save the dead.

  104. BackRowHeckler September 6, 2014 at 3:02 pm #

    Wait a minute! Could this be true?

    Until about 20 years ago Ferguson, Mo was a white prosperous sedate orderly suburb … in st Louis a decision was made to level public housing — it had become so squalid, filthy and dangerous — and move the esteemed residents to neighborhoods scattered throughout the city, which soon became squalid, dirty and dangerous too. The next step was to encourage these esteemed citizens to take their section 8 vouchers (free housing) into the surrounding suburban towns, towns like ferguson. It wasn’t long before section 8 took over, whitey cleared out, and Ferguson became a craphole like the projects and St Louis neighborhoods, in 20 short years that’s all it took. I’ve seen the same thing happen round here. It doesn’t take long to destroy 300 years of European American civilization ‘specially when the government is helping out with the destruction.

    Heres my suggestion for a new slogan:

    No more “Hands up don’t shoot”,


    “Section 8, free rent”

    “Section 8, free rent”

    “Section 8, free rent”

    How do you like it?


    • progress4what September 6, 2014 at 3:52 pm #

      Yeah, in my experience – once you put a house into Section 8 rental service – it will never rent on the open market again.

      Same thing goes for apartment complexes and eventually whole neighborhoods – once some critical tipping point is reached they convert to near-total Section 8 status.

      Just another way for the Federal govt. to distort markets and destroy property values among those who are “disfavored” by Federal policy.

      I am not a fan.

  105. progress4what September 6, 2014 at 3:46 pm #


    “I’m relatively new here….” – pkrugman –


    Wow, that’s two good laughs in one day from pkrugman.

    And BTW, doesn’t this website have a prohibition against using a screenname to impersonate an (in)famous person?

    If you’re really pkrugman, shouldn’t you be busy, somewhere, advocating for the slow destruction of US currency value? I said slowly – no need to cite this year’s “official” inflation statistics in response.

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  106. pkrugman September 6, 2014 at 5:07 pm #

    1973 inflation = 8.8 percent
    1974 inflation = 12.2 percent
    Compare to Obama’s figures (use any source you want)

    Are the CFN rules posted somewhere? Being new here I have not seen them.

    Pat Kelly Rugman

    • Being There September 6, 2014 at 5:24 pm #

      In those years they weren’t playing with the math. Check out Shadow Stats. for some real numbers:


    • Florida Power September 6, 2014 at 8:22 pm #

      Obama’s figures? As if he had anything to do with anything? As if he grabbed the inflation control lever in the white house Economy Control Room and heroically fought fatigue and the siren of cocktail hour to tamp it down?

      PK earlier spoke of Obama the warrior chief about to do battle with ISIS. Yeah, I can see him now, with his coalition, hundreds of them coming over the crest of the hill in golf carts headed to the field of battle, waving their clubs like scimitars. ISIS will die laughing.

  107. FincaInTheMountains September 6, 2014 at 6:30 pm #

    West Without Water

    Dr. B. Lynn Ingram: there is a 50 to 60 percent chance of a 35-year drought occurring in the West.

    “There’s lots of reasons for civilizations to fail.” volodya

    I think there is only one reason: Weakness of the Spirit

  108. pkrugman September 6, 2014 at 7:20 pm #

    “In those years they weren’t playing with the math.”

    The whole Vietnam War was fought off the books by playing with the math. President Johnson created the ‘unified budget’ in the late 1960s to disguise the real cost of the Vietnam War. Nixon continued playing with the math by imposing a 90-day wage and price freeze, a 10 per cent import surcharge, and closing the gold window, thereby reneging on the promise to exchange gold for dollars.

    The 1960s and 1970s were prime times for playing with the math, raiding Social Security trust funds, hiding the real costs of war, and manipulating the economy in favor of the bankers and arms dealers.

    Unfortunately, Shadow Stats does not go back that far.

    • Florida Power September 6, 2014 at 9:38 pm #

      Glad you mentioned Johnson and the War since that is where the Military-Industrial complex within the National Security State achieved escape velocity in the budget process. The French were not convinced we could finance guns and butter so they demanded gold for their paper dollars and the rest, as they say, is history. Nixon had little choice but to “suspend” gold redemptions. Hence, the invention of the petro-backed dollar — at the cost of massive increases in the dollar price of oil which is how Kissinger sold it — good for the Shah, good for the Saudis, good for the Seven Sisters, good for world dollar demand, not so good for Gary Garage and Suzy Secretary who after all are only useless eaters. The North Slope and the North Sea rearranged things just in time for Morning in America and the bull market in US Treasuries, now coming to an end, perhaps with the dollar itself. In the meantime China was granted most favored nation status and the giant sucking sound Ross Perot warned against re NAFTA became a black hole as US manufacturing migrated to Asia in a huge labor arbitrage. Lest the populace should become restive a bunch of Saudis led by a guy living in a cave in Afghanistan were reported to have blown up the WTC in 2001 (with a blow also to the Pentagon hitting uncannily in the financial records section of the building only a day after Rumsfeld mentioned $2trillion unaccounted for in the bureaucracy…) and Voila! it was as if Monsters from the Id showed up on cue. This terrifying Enemy facilitated The Patriot Act to keep Gary Garage and Suzy Secretary in line (as if that were needed) and the endless War on Terror to feed the Military-Industrial Complex and the National Security Apparatus. Bend over, remove your laptop and your shoes, and oh by the way the NSA knows where you’ve been, where you’re going, and why. We at TSA are only here to remind you of your servitude. The CIA is self-funding and doesn’t need you anymore. Your elected representatives do not represent you, useless eater, and the face of government to you is the IRS.

      I need another glass of wine to make sense of all this…

  109. BackRowHeckler September 6, 2014 at 11:50 pm #

    Check out Robert Kagan’s essay in WSJ this weekend, compares events now to the 1930s, when Great Britain, the US and France had turned their backs on war and armaments, abdicated their international responsibilities, embraced the League of Nations to solve all problems, and thought the whole civilized world shared their pacifists ideals.

    Only problem is, the Japanese, Italians, Germans and the Soviet Union didn’t and moved quickly to fill the power vacuum.

    I don’t know maybe times have changed and raw naked power no longer matters. Maybe that’s what John Kerry meant when he described Putins taking the Crimea as “so 19th century”.

    It reminded me that a massive antiwar peace demonstration attracting hundreds of thousands in NYC in 1938 was staged the same week Hitler moved German Divisions east to annex Czechoslovakia. Obviously he wasn’t too impressed.

    Putin and ISIS might not be too impressed by what they see here either, in 2014.


    • ozone September 7, 2014 at 9:58 am #

      Please don’t insult our collective memory by attempting to steer us toward a serial liar and agent provocateur.
      Robert Kagan + Victoria Nuland tinkle any faint service bells?

      I would read their “ideas” about as fast as I’d piss on either of them if they were on fire. (In case you’re wondering… I wouldn’t. ;-))

      • ozone September 7, 2014 at 10:49 am #

        Re-think addendum.
        I’d read a Kagan spewing for one distinct reason: To find out what the neo-cons next move is going to be and how they intend to manufacture consent around it…

      • ozone September 7, 2014 at 12:50 pm #

        Remind us again who it is that owns the Wall Street Journal “news”paper and whose worldview might be projected therein.

  110. FincaInTheMountains September 7, 2014 at 7:19 am #

    Wrong view of the History, BRH. Hitler was never appeased; he was encouraged to move East against Russia, taking on the way insignificant East European countries. Hitler and fascism were always pet project of City of London and Wall Street, who wanted to put two Continental powers – Germany and Russia – against each other to weaken them both. But they are not that all-powerful and calculating. They screwed up, just like they are screwing up with ISIS right now, and Hitler initially went in a wrong direction.
    It looks like our financier friends still like fascism, judging by Kiev. They wouldn’t mind imposing it all over Europe and in US as well. “Democracy” is not the goal of Western civilization, just a temporary tool to achieve competitive advantage.

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    • Being There September 7, 2014 at 10:13 am #

      Love the way you see things, FTM

      We keep playinj\ig the same routine over and over again.

      That hedge your bet thing is just like the way our roulette table of an economy works too.

      Yes it’s always about getting competition to fight each other to weaken them.
      Yes, it’s always about betting both ways to insure a profit.
      Yes, it’ eventually going to wreck us all, but those who engineer this will not pay, most likely.
      Yesterday I ran across a good post by Charles Hugh Smith—speaking of a Madoff Ponzi scheme…..exactly why is this guy in jail when the Fed is doing the same thing?

      Stocks Have Reached a Permanently High Plateau
      ……[A permanently high plateau of stock prices is a marvelous innovation: you can practically set your watch to the steady tick of new all-time highs, and all you need to plan your retirement or cash-out of your stock options is a ruler and a pencil–just extend the price line as far forward as you want, and calculate your wealth. ]…..


      • FincaInTheMountains September 7, 2014 at 10:34 am #

        “Stocks Have Reached a Permanently High Plateau”

        The US Stock Market has long gone from being a legitimate tool of raising capital for production to being a simple reservoir to absorb extra cash liquidity “produced” by the Fed.

        So your phrase above should read:
        “Money printing by Fed Have Reached a Permanently High Plateau”

        • Being There September 7, 2014 at 11:09 am #

          Indeed. QE is permanent.

          That was the title by Charles Hugh Smith
          did you read the article.

          • FincaInTheMountains September 7, 2014 at 11:22 am #

            “QE is permanent” – don’t bet on it. Putin is working hard on that one.

  111. Being There September 7, 2014 at 11:12 am #

    Check out this little cutie—short and sweet.
    Republican introduing a Homeland Security bill that will knock your socks off. Even he looks shocked as he’s reading it.


    • stelmosfire September 7, 2014 at 1:41 pm #

      Cukes? did you say cukes? Hundreds of them this time of year.I.’ll swap cukes. for a poke if yer’ interested? :o) I’ve got a whole bunch of 7-9 inchers. !!!! Just .sayin’. Ignore my vulgar humor .We all need a laugh at the shit going down ‘roun the world these days. o:)

  112. FincaInTheMountains September 7, 2014 at 11:18 am #

    “We keep playing the same routine over and over again” Being There

    Exactly, it amazes me how Anglo Saxons love to use the same technique if it worked before. And public keeps buying, like the fairy tale “Hitler was appeased in Munich”

    I wonder if “they” miscalculated the power of Internet and small percentage of people still remaining with active cerebral activity after all those years in Western educational system.

  113. MisterDarling September 7, 2014 at 1:24 pm #

    Either someone is bluffing or the EU just went “full retard”;


    Just to help clarify things, take a good look at the map of dependency:


    We might actually see reductions in gas-flow yet.

    One observation: Russia + China double-down on de-dollarification, and EU ‘decides’ ten days later to double-down on self-sacrifice.

    Maybe they like the taste of ‘pillow’? They say it’s delicious, eventually.


    • FincaInTheMountains September 7, 2014 at 2:50 pm #

      The sanctions reportedly include a new ban on raising capital by mentioned Russian oil/gas giants in the 28-nation bloc, nothing mentioning the ban on oil/gas imports.

      Question – do they really need to raise capital in EU or US? The building of the Chinese pipeline is funded by China prepaying 25 billion for future gas delivery. Could the said companies raise capital INSIDE Russia, perhaps tapping into 800 billion “Russian Stabilization Fund”, mostly lying around in US Treasuries making nothing in interest.

      Would be good time to start dumping Treasuries and Bonds of the participating EU countries. Also, Russia always wanted to start emitting rubles for internal projects, like say China or Japan do. All that was lacking is good motivation.

      Did EU and US just shot themselves in BOTH feet?

      • Florida Power September 7, 2014 at 4:35 pm #

        We’ll see if this story has the same half-life as an announcement by Hollande. Concrete evidence of Shell, BP, and Exxon Mobil shutting down in Russia would be more convincing.

        Where are the MH17 air traffic control tapes from the Kiev tower? Something’s happening here. What it is ain’t exactly clear…

  114. MisterDarling September 7, 2014 at 1:27 pm #

    re | Ebola + ‘free-market’ = bigger problem

    Yeah, they’ve got a vaccine but… Well… (tsk)… there’s just no business case for producing it:


  115. progress4what September 7, 2014 at 1:48 pm #

    Hey BT. Things are pretty bad and getting worse, I’ll agree.

    However, that video you posted is apparently from “TheOnion-Span,” instead of C-SPAN. Notice the logo at the bottom right?


    Good to hear from you, BT. And, as always when having a CFN discussion with you, I reserve the right to be proved wrong.
    Because you’re usually right, you know?

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  116. pkrugman September 7, 2014 at 2:18 pm #

    Good catch, P4W. And don’t sell yourself short. You are a pretty smart guy.

  117. Florida Power September 7, 2014 at 4:10 pm #

    Janos — a while back you asked about Dmitri Orlov scholars. I am not, but chanced upon an interview with him that if you have not heard already may answer some of your questions:

    He reminds me of the Archdruid at times, with that almost smug self-assuredness threatening to evolve into puffery, but he is always well spoken with a gift for choosing the word you hadn’t thought of.

    • Janos Skorenzy September 7, 2014 at 11:54 pm #

      Thanks FP.

  118. pkrugman September 8, 2014 at 3:07 am #

    “Hey BT. Things are pretty bad and getting worse, I’ll agree.” –P4W

    P4W, things get worse, then they get better, then they get worse, then they get better, then they get worse, then they get better.

    See the pattern?

    For example, not long ago people in California were talking like the apocalypse had already hit California. Polls showed 13 percent were happy with the state’s direction. A solid 80 percent of voters saw a California where things were bad and getting worse.

    Then Jerry Brown was elected governor and Schwarzenegger was out.

    Now, for the first time in a while, more of the state’s registered voters see some light at the end of what’s been a very long tunnel, with 43 percent convinced things are improving and 41 percent wary of where California is pointed. That’s a huge jump from the minuscule 13 percent who were happy a few years ago.

    Up, down, up, down, up, down. Things get worse, then they get better.

    I know this doesn’t wash on CFN. CFN does NOT believe that it is always darkest before the dawn.

    But CFN is wrong. CFN never comments on the upside, or anything positive. That is simple bias, ignoring realities. Like you, for example, who has never said anything about the benefits of immigration.

  119. GarryInNola September 8, 2014 at 3:53 am #

    We should forget about Ukraine but the U.S. has NATO all in a flurry over the situation, even implying that Russia might want to take back Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. Possible, but not likely. And Crimea was all about Russia’s need for a warm-water port that stays ice-free all winter. In case anyone hasn’t noticed, Russia is a high latitude nation and all of it’s coast gets very cold in the winter and the ports freeze up. With a port on the Black Sea in Crimea they have access to the Mediterranean and points beyond.

  120. ozone September 8, 2014 at 9:26 am #

    Here’s a peek at what NATO might be up to. You’ll enjoy the article as it has the proper snark factor from Pepe Escobar:

    “No R2P for you, buddy
    Even with all this Mars Attacks! hysteria, NATO in thesis won’t discuss Ukraine in depth in Wales – or an imminent R2P (“responsibility to protect”) Ukraine from the remixed “Evil Empire” (copyright Ronnie Reagan). But there will be “military consultations” and a bit of cash shelled out to the Kiev military – who are having their (bankrupt) collective behind solemnly kicked by the federalist/separatist forces in Eastern Ukraine as much as NATO had theirs kicked by a bunch of Pashtuns with Kalashnikovs in Afghanistan.

    By the way, the latest US$1.4 billion the International Monetary Fund shelled out to Ukraine – the Mobster-style interest will hit much later – will be used by an already bankrupt Kiev mostly to pay for a bunch of T-72 tanks it bought from Hungary. Money for nothing, tanks for free. ” — P.E.


    It’s pretty clear (to me, at least) that the Overlords of Da West are looking for any loophole they can find to get the US military camel-nose under the tent. A US garrison-state in Ukraine (or states, i.e. Latvia, Estonia, etc.) would be ideal for projecting threats to Russia to “hand it over, or else”. NATO is only a false front to give the appearance of a coalition of the willing [bribed or bullied]. Personally, I don’t think this round of suicidal sanctions has a chance in hell of accomplishing what is desired.

    …But, hey, Germany can shut down its’ industry to keep from freezing this winter. (Yeah, that’ll show ’em!) Thanks for the map of EU use of Imperial Russian gas, M.D.

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