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A Christmas Carol 2011

     Slouched in woe beside the Christmas tree, a lot of Americans missed the point of 2011: Santa Claus had already emptied his goodie sack before the night of wonders and miracles arrived and was back at the North Pole checking the balance sheet to see if he could raise a little cash selling some remaining assets off to the Blackstone Group or maybe work a leveraged buyout deal with Kohlberg Kravis Roberts. A few elves would have to join the unemployment line, but they could probably get by on half-rations of food stamps. Or maybe Henry Kravis could feed them reindeer steaks… at a discount, as long as they last.
     It’s remarkable how the year’s great mega-holiday blowout suspends time and circumstance. I didn’t see how the European banks were going to make it to December 25, but then, heading into the shopping frenzy home-stretch, swap lines opened up between the US Federal Reserve  and the European Central Bank and around $600-odd billion in ZIRP loans flowed to over 200 Euro banks. Maybe that will cover the next two weeks of aggregate debt rollovers, and then what? They can’t even look forward to President’s Day over there – unless we rented out the George Washington and Abe Lincoln brands to them.
     Who is still not impressed with the ability of these central banks, and their owner-operators, to keep re-circulating immense loads of notional money? Alas, every wash-rinse repeat cycle leaves the certificates a little paler and thinner, and it won’t be long before they just appear to be blank paper. But rackets as grand and insolent as these would not be possible, except in a culture so estranged from truth that anything goes over without notice. I wonder about that scene around the American Christmas tree, though – the empty space between the floor and the lowest boughs where the gaily-wrapped presents used to appear.
     I reckon it will take a few weeks, perhaps through the whole winter, for a sense of swindle to set in among the rooked. You may notice a pervasive undertone of grumbling in the background – and winter is the right time for that – like the eerie, ominous chords of ice groaning in the darkness on a still night around the frozen lake. But eventually come the tumults and torrents of spring. I suppose what baffles many of us in the ethers of bloggery is the apparent failure of that demographic slice acquainted with thinking to register any objection to the travesties and organized brigandages of these times. At any other time in the life of this republic, such folk with active frontal lobes would have identified arrant criminal activity for what it is. Apparently, the nostrums of Paul Krugman are as powerfully narcotic as the raptures of Nascar.
     I’m afraid events are a little too far gone now. There was some hope that Mr. Obama would restore the rule of law, but he has gone even farther in the opposite direction by disabling even the levers of truth – and in so genial a style that nobody noticed that, either. That thinking demographic slice of the public I averred to must have mortgaged their souls the past three years just to keep on keeping on. Hence, when the truly rooked wake from their zombie sleepwalk, there will be hell to pay for sure. Sometimes an intellectual governor on events no longer even avails, as was the case in the French Revolution. When the lawyers, political theorists, and philosophers got into the act, the blood really flowed.
    Will that happen here, in the months and years ahead? I do think so. We’ve grown ourselves a toxic aristocracy of privilege and mega-wealth as cheeky (or worse) than the fops and strumpets of Versailles. I confess, I feel a bit lusty for some Grand Guignol action myself. There are stock figures in The New York Observer’s weekly  “Shindigger” column who I would enjoy seeing treated after the manner of Vlad III, Prince of Wallachia, the celebrated “impaler.” And what better place for it than Zuccotti Park, a much more intimate venue than the agoraphobia-inducing Place de la Concord. You see what happens: in the absence of the rule of law even prudent men turn to the reptile agencies of mind.
     The truly interesting thing about America’s romance with our Wild West was that there was always an Unwild East to return to – if you survived adventuring in one piece. Well, first the frontier closed about 100 years ago, and now we wake on Christmas morning to discover that the whole land, from sea to shining sea, has gone feral with rot. Enjoy this nebulous week of suspended animation while it lasts. I’ll be back next Monday with the 2012 forecast.

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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

947 Responses to “A Christmas Carol 2011” Subscribe

  1. alohavagabond December 26, 2011 at 9:31 am #

    First!

  2. kulturcritic* December 26, 2011 at 9:34 am #

    James, Let’s not forget our fellow essayist, RIP. kulturCritic
    http://kulturcritic.wordpress.com/posts/the-faith-of-christopher-hitchens-in-memoriam/

  3. Norman Conquest December 26, 2011 at 9:44 am #

    Thanks James Howard, my Christmas has come true!

  4. Norman Conquest December 26, 2011 at 9:47 am #

    Christmas wish, that is…now for the Banksters hung neatly from the lamp posts, like so many bloated Christmas stockings.

  5. matt December 26, 2011 at 9:47 am #

    what kind of idiot makes a practice of submitting a comment “first” with no other content? get a life.

  6. dale December 26, 2011 at 9:48 am #

    Not meaning to bum anyone’s Christmas celebration out, but rumor has it the military is gearing up for something post-holiday in ME…..Iran?

  7. upstatebob December 26, 2011 at 9:49 am #

    colorful prose this morning. Even I have been swayed to almost
    thinking this game of propping up the debt and currency world
    can go on forever. -after all, now that currency is only a construct
    and an entry in a digital miasma,…. why not?

  8. Onthego December 26, 2011 at 9:51 am #

    We watch as new forms of poverty are categorized every day: the latest in this pantheon is Fuel Poverty, which is particularly daunting at this time of year. Will our feckless Congress return in January from their fatted calves and barrels of mead to slash the remaining few dollars from this “pork barrel” spending? Congress seems to agree that God does indeed hate the poor, who didn’t pick their parents nearly as well as did the Walton heirs, who are worth more collectively than most of the rest of us put together. Of course, not only will the poor always be with us, but there are more us every day. T latest scientific news is that the Bah, Humbug breed is indeed less attuned to human suffering than the 99ers. Practice does make perfect in this, as in all else. Throw another log on the fire and dream of spring gardens to come.

  9. steve December 26, 2011 at 10:03 am #

    Your predictions of impending doom are tiresome. Now, it’s going to hit the fan in the Spring – we’ll see.
    And I wonder who are the “thinking demographic slice” – probably those who think like you. Well, you thought Mr. Obama was the second coming and we know now how that worked out.
    I suggest you start sharpening your knitting needles, Monsieur DeFarge. You will have an honorary seat at the guillotine when the knife starts to fall – what fun!

  10. Smokyjoe December 26, 2011 at 10:03 am #

    Christmas-party tomfoolery this year:
    “I’m buying a new pickup.”
    me: “Great! What sort?”
    “I think I’ll go for the V8 Tundra.”
    me: “What sort of mileage?”
    “I don’t care about that. Gas is $2.99 now.”
    me: “For now…and what IS a dollar, anyway? I mean, what underlies the value? And if it slips…what will happen to that gas price?”
    “Uh…Don’t know.”
    And this, from sea to shining sea. Happy Holidays, all.

  11. patternsoflife December 26, 2011 at 10:08 am #

    Can’t wait for 2012 to arrive

  12. tpverde December 26, 2011 at 10:15 am #

    Well, the suspension of intellectual activity must have been in overdrive recently as the numbers roll in indicating a new record in Holiday spending.
    Perhaps the impending doom is not just around the corner, but the downslope of Empire and middle class bliss is well greased with blame to share among most of the participants at the post-WWII American banquet.
    Nice to see my neighbors in Costa Rica exchanging tamales, drinking a bit more beer but otherwise going about their seasonal chores and not going deeper into debt chasing the toppling idol of grotesque over-consumption. puebloverde.org

  13. hmuller December 26, 2011 at 10:21 am #

    Mentioning the old west reminded me of one cultural feature it manifested which was always condemned in film – the vigilante lynch mob. Yet, as a counterpoint to rule by bullying, thieving oligarchs, it merits rethinking. When justice and the rule of law lie raped, bloodied, and discarded; self-help solutions may emerge.

  14. anti soak December 26, 2011 at 10:32 am #

    The continuing dialog [carried over from last week]
    On Jared Diamond:
    “Diamond opposes classifying human populations into races—except of course as to Jews and non-Jews.
    He gave his tacit assent to the proposed Israeli-Zionist policy of defining and classifying Jews and non-Jews on the basis of whether or not they possess “Jewish genes.”
    Indeed, notice what Diamond is saying: there are legitimate grounds for investigating how Jews differ genetically from non-Jews. The Israelis need to know who carries “Jewish genes” so as to determine who will be allowed to settle in the Zionist state.
    In his 1994 Discover article he says that the classification of humans into races based upon their biological makeup is “destined to follow the Flat Earth into oblivion.”22
    Yet, in his 1993 Natural History article he told us that the classification of Jews and non-Jews on the basis of genetic makeup has a bright future in Israel, as it may be used to differentiate between Jews and Gentiles.
    In the 2005 edition of Guns, Germs, and Steel, he tells us that dividing up peoples of the earth on the basis of race, such as “blacks” and “whites,” is arbitrary and misleading. Strangely enough, a few sentences later he writes that “recognizing these major [racial] groups is still so useful for understanding history.’

  15. anti soak December 26, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    I call it a con!
    Poverty = poverty, not ‘food insecurity’ ‘fuel poverty’etc ad nauseum.

  16. DeeJones December 26, 2011 at 10:41 am #

    “Well, the suspension of intellectual activity must have been in overdrive recently as the numbers roll in indicating a new record in Holiday spending.”
    All fueled by yet more DEBT, I wonder how many just made the requisite purchases on credit and at the same time probably maxing it all out this year?
    The average US consumadroid has at least 6 cards in the wallet/purse, with a “limit” of at least $10k each, and they are all pretty much maxed out by now.
    And yes, the Christmas spirit IS different here, but greeting S. Clause with fireworks barrages till midnight is a bit different than back in the old USSA.
    But it is beautiful today.
    🙂

  17. balkan December 26, 2011 at 10:48 am #

    It is like old Mervyn’s shop window scratching commercial: “Open…Open…”. 🙂

  18. Neon Vincent December 26, 2011 at 10:49 am #

    Happy Boxing Day and a belated Merry Christmas, although it looks like James was asking Santa for Bastille Day to arrive prematurely. In due time, James, in due time. The U.S. does have the opportunity to fix things at the ballot box next year, although I suspect James things we’re much too far gone now for that to work.
    Speaking of the ballot box, the Republican nominees have been great gifts of comedy. Both Gingrich and Perry failed to make the ballot in the Virginia primary, and Ron Paul is now getting the scrutiny he deserves. Also, the Tea Partiers in Virginia are getting in the way of preparing for climate change and sea level rise by claiming that it’s all a UN conspiracy. Really. In the same vein, the Tea Party mayor and City Council of Troy, Michigan, turning down money for a train station/transit center. Looks like the corn pone Fascists really are that incompetent.
    Over at Crazy Eddie’s Motie News, I’ve blogged or plan to blog about all the above. Also, like James, I wrote a post about the economy being so bad that Santa needed help, although the version I posted had him getting help from China. My, Santa, you *are* in bad shape!
    http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/

  19. Liquid Lennny December 26, 2011 at 11:01 am #

    Sitting here, on a Monday morning with a cup of java, absorbing the last few remaining moments of silence before the family arise from their gift induced coma, makes me think, I kinda like this state of suspended animation. Too bad it only lasts for a week before it’s back to the sawmill.
    It’ll be amusing to see what magic tricks the financal world conjurs up this next year to keep the world from awaking from their self-induced slumber. I suggest we all enjoy these moments while they last.
    In keeping with Jim’s discussion last week concerning the arrogance of modernity I came across a site that I think is a good example of how to pevert a great idea. “Open source blueprints for civilization” Here you will learn how to build a tractor in only three days! What kind of Erector Set did this guy get for Christmas? I gotta think if I tried to build a tractor in my kitchen the HOA is going to be all over my a$%. And what exactly do I use to fuel this contraption? Potato peels, peanut shells and used beer, maybe processed excrement? Anyone got a site for homebased bio-fuel? The French did it with Gasogene during WW2 so maybe there is a way.
    Here’s the site for your own amusement, maybe you’ll find something of value;
    http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/marcin_jakubowski.html
    While you’re checking this out or reading more coherent comments other this one, here is a link to this year’s final musical selection. From a Russian born guy who now lives in Israel, for all the garbage going on in the world there is still much to live for, enjoy; and best wishes to all for the New Year!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZVSOTFBaMw

  20. ABSALOM December 26, 2011 at 11:02 am #

    A-Soak,
    You’ve got to actually read the book. Copying and pasting snippets of comments about the book from critics does not your own opinion make. You muddled the context of the remarks, provided no citation or reference and still need to work with the ideas for yourself so you can sound like you have a real point of contention. Carry on the conversation, please. Just make a little bit of sense so someone can follow you.
    ABSALOM

  21. army December 26, 2011 at 11:10 am #

    Well, it’s the day after Christmas and the weather here in Western PA is not pretty. Gas is $3.35/ gallon…….price fixed here by a large chain, money market accounts are paying .10%, and the Senior Citizens are locked on to CNBC watching the status of their 401K.
    The gray hairs are starting to get nervous. It looks like they will have trouble this year affording to eat out three times per day and the money they donate to their churches will be in short supply. How will they buy their heaven insurance? But, they are happy…….every doctor office, car dealership, restaurant etc. have a 24 hour broadcast of FOX News playing and the seniors just lock on and spew out the crap they hear. They are proud to display their NRA and their Anti-Obama bumper stickers.
    The local Walmart looks like a freak show. The plethora of ear rings, tattos, and land whales dressed in PJ’s and tee-shirts is remarkable. Everyone has a cell phones…….walking and looking for the next great message. The welfare cards are being swiped in record numbers.
    On the brite side, traffic is starting to increase on local highways by the abundance of Marcellus well drillers with licence plates from the sunny south. The area is starting to look like a giant ground mole inherited Western PA. But, there is joy here for a few lucky land owners……..the Marcellus Gas Lease! The few folks who benefit from lease money are shopping for Cadillacs, RV’s, and pickup with four wheels in the back. Later they will look into dental care for the remaining tooth they had going into the lease meeting.
    The other folks…..those without leases are wondering if their water supply will be safe and if their homes will be worth anything.
    I wish the elections and the Republicans would just go away. We have enough with Obama screwing things up. Do we need more of the same?
    So we will see what happens in 2012. My neighbor hopes that the Mayan calendar is correct…..

  22. Neon Vincent December 26, 2011 at 11:10 am #

    “I don’t care about that. Gas is $2.99 now.”
    To think that’s considered cheap gas these days. When the price of unleaded regular passed that mark for the first time in the U.S. in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, that was considered exorbitant. The difference six years and three oil price shocks makes!

  23. ABSALOM December 26, 2011 at 11:15 am #

    This vid is a great contribution, Lenny. This is exactly the type of material I share with the college students I interact with. Open Source technology –Hardware– is where it’s at in a world made by hand. Less reliance and dependence on patent holders. More reliance on self-made engineers. Awesome!
    Thanks,
    ABSALOM

  24. Neon Vincent December 26, 2011 at 11:16 am #

    You’re making it sound like the old joke about Pennsylvania being Philadelphia at one end, Pittsburgh at the other end, and Alabama in between is true. Having just driven through the Commonwealth last month, I can tell you that isn’t quite true. Alabama doesn’t have such tall mountains.
    That written, it was interesting seeing the battle among energy supplies being played out on billboards alongside the Pennsylvania Turnpike. Coal and gas received a lot of exposure on multiple signs, while wind and solar only showed up on one billboard each. Looks like the fossil fools have the money to burn on PR!

  25. bubbleheadMarc December 26, 2011 at 11:19 am #

    “But rackets as grand and insolent as these would not be possible, except in a culture so estranged from truth that anything goes over without notice.”
    The residue from the boom times has to evaporate before notice will be taken. Also, so long as only the “losers” are whining no notice will be taken either. But the day will come and to trot out a cliche the hoofbeats of the four horsemen of the apocalypse must become distinctly audible. The Great Depression was intensified and prolonged by the European banking collapse of 1931, so a repeat performance is in the cards. The more smug members of the middle and upper-middle classes are still clinging to their middlebrow illusions that their blandness and lack of engagement somehow shield them from skid-row, and of course they are not going to believe something until after it has already occurred to them as well. Pretty much any of the dull normal majority who’ve landed some tidy little sinecure feeding at the public trough will be in for a rude awakening once they realize that marking third graders’ homework is not a marketable skill in the future cash world where everyone is an independent contractor. Ditto for careers enforcing laws which needn’t actually exist in the coming don’t make a fuck libertarian do-it-yourself world of no taxes and no public services. This world will also include burning your own turds like in the army since no taxes equals no sewers with which to convey our turds into the lake from which the drinking water is piped to now shuttered filtration plant. I think everyone will eventually get the point.

  26. Workdove December 26, 2011 at 11:35 am #

    I applied for a car loan for a new fuel efficient car this year and I was declined due to a poor credit rating. I found a loan shark organization, which actively participated in the US sub-prime market real estate and they qualified me to buy a gas guzzing 2006 SUV- go figure??
    So now that I’ve traded in my beater for a used gas guzzing SUV, with a usury interest rate,I can see the direction for the future. More of the same until collapse.
    Where people,because of declining credit standards,can’t get credit to buy fuel efficient new vehicles. I can’t see hybrids, electric cars or anything else reducing our gasoline dependance anytime soon.

  27. sprezzatura December 26, 2011 at 11:36 am #

    I received “The KunstlerCast:” book as a Christmas present. What a great gift! I will enjoy hours of delightful reading.
    (I already own The Long Emergency, Geography of Nowhere, World Made By Hand, Home From Nowhere).

  28. andrei_timoshenko December 26, 2011 at 11:42 am #

    Bankruptcy, theft, and rampant consumerism cannot all be true at the same time. If everything, everywhere is bankrupt, then there is nothing to steal and nothing to consume. If there is theft and swindling, then there are assets around and some people (the ones being stolen from) are consuming less than they produce. If many are consuming much more than they produce while others are busy stealing, then there must still be a lot of stuff to go around.
    Our problem is not with asset existence (i.e. we have not and are not running out), but with asset distribution.

  29. Kurt Cagle December 26, 2011 at 11:44 am #

    This year, most of the presents under the tree were books, although puzzles, games of Scrabble and Monopoly (yup, teach ’em young), fabric, several skeins of yarn and sketchbooks/paper for my artist eldest daughter featured in there as well. No Kindles, no IPads, only one computer game (and that at a discount). I did get a drawing projector for my eldest and a lightboard/tracing board for my youngest, both of which technology that could have been built fifty years ago.
    Most of these things will be read or used for years – my daughter designs and sews her own clothes, and the paper will no doubt be used heavily there, in addition to selling artwork. She’s learned to knit and crochet, to bake and cook, in short, she’s learning skills that her grandmothers knew but her mother doesn’t.
    She’s as “connected” as most other kids her age, but when the lights go out and the electronics go off, I’m trying to make damn sure that she can survive on her own. I think that’s the greatest gift you can give to your children at this time in the grand cycle.

  30. piltdownman December 26, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    On my flight to LAX last night I was re-reading “Shock Doctrine” as ATC moved our A320 from one flight level to another, in a desperate attempt to avoid turbulence. I’ll let you fill in the blanks of the analogy…

  31. ozone December 26, 2011 at 11:50 am #

    As an addendum to this week’s round of Clusterfuck-on-the-go and in-the-making, your comment is in perfect tune with my vision of the future also. (No need for further comment from me; thanks for providing me with a non-thinking day! ;o)

  32. greyghost05 December 26, 2011 at 12:02 pm #

    Good point about burning shit when it all goes down. I like the reference about flushing it out into the lake and then bring the water back in via the water treatment plant. Sounds like Toledo and Lake Erie. You can cruise down the Maumee river and go right past the waste treatment plant over in Point Place and bear a little to the right and drop a line for walleye or perch out by the water intake. I won’t drink the water in Toledo, cause no one can tell me how many toilets have been flushed up-stream in the head waters of the Maumee River. Or how much Roundup and 2 4 D has ran off the fields along the way. And then there is the little Ottawa River that dumps into it. After is passes the Dura Landfill. This one is so bad that there is no swiming or anyother water sports allowed below the dam up by UT. Yet on any given day you will see people fishing along the banks of either of these water ways.
    Storm’n Norman used to refer to Cleveland as “Paris on the Cuyohoga” you can think of Toledo as Can Tho on the Mekong.
    And just in time to bring hope and revenue to the area, they are building a Casino over in Rossford,right on the river for your boating pleasure.

  33. greyghost05 December 26, 2011 at 12:10 pm #

    Here’s a site you can use to check gas prices in the Toledo metro area. It also lets you connect to other cities.
    Right now prices are 309 to 349.
    http://www.toledogasprices.com/
    Happy Motoring !

  34. hreardon December 26, 2011 at 12:29 pm #

    Problem is, the Feds are prepared with operational FEMA camps nationwide, for which they are advertizing for detention camp guards. Now there is a job with a future. How about a truck load of martial law signs being sent West from Oklahoma recently to show this administration is on top of things, especially with the removal of the Posse Comatatus law in sections 1031 and 1033 of the just-enacted National Defense Reauthorization Act. Welcome to the US version of Nazi Germany.

  35. K December 26, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    On Wall Street some are saying there’s a 75% chance they’ll be a European-led collapse in the first quarter of 2013 that will make the 2008 debacle look like a dress rehearsal. Grace – Always just in the nick of time!
    http://www.Thesisa.org/

  36. greyghost05 December 26, 2011 at 12:46 pm #

    Here’s a site you can use to check gas prices in the Toledo metro area. It also lets you connect to other cities.
    Right now prices are 309 to 349.
    http://www.toledogasprices.com/
    Happy Motoring !

  37. anti soak December 26, 2011 at 12:46 pm #

    Thanks….I did read his books!
    I think hes a talented writer/self promoter.
    Not much of a scientist however!

  38. Vlad Krandz December 26, 2011 at 12:47 pm #

    Have you burned your own shit? Does it burn well? Is it a possible energy source? Smell bad perhaps?

  39. Vlad Krandz December 26, 2011 at 12:50 pm #

    Illusions from the chattering class? You mean like worrying about a Right Wing Christian Takeover during a slow motion Communist Coup?

  40. greyghost05 December 26, 2011 at 12:54 pm #

    I guess the questions that should be asked might run along these lines.
    1) Where was the main stream media on this ? Rachel, Keith, Chris, billy O’, Sean, Rush ?
    2) Why was there no real debate in either the House or Senate ? It passed the Senate 93 to 7.
    3) And why is this being put in place ?
    Scary but just maybe Jesse Ventura isn’t full or shit or crazy after all !

  41. Vlad Krandz December 26, 2011 at 12:56 pm #

    Rush just said, “Nascar Fans, like most Americans, are mature, intelligent people who don’t like being refered to as “bitter clingers”.
    Rush’s usual combination of lies and truths. Most people, they left or right, are idiots. Nascar probably contains more idiots than other most other groups – but Pro-Wrestling Fans are probably even more stupid. On the other hand, people have every right to hold onto their God and their Guns. And resenting Elitists who mock them for this is perfectly natural.

  42. greyghost05 December 26, 2011 at 1:01 pm #

    Vlad, you have your finger right on the pulse of what’s going down.
    Interesting times ahead fore sure.

  43. jpfreemon December 26, 2011 at 1:03 pm #

    As long as the idiot box and other techno-wonder gadgets can provide a constant stream of endorphins to the American brain, all will be well. Rodger Waters might have provided America’s epitaph: ‘They amused themselves to death’

  44. 8man December 26, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    Contrary to the “Big Bang”, Information (Information Relationships) are connecting all of the dots of the Universe with each other, all chunks of matter and events, and in time also all past events are becoming connected, hence are creating a zero space and time difference between two disjoint Chunks of Matter and their corresponding events, hence what Information is doing is a Big Crunch, the Opposite of a Big Bang, the Internet is exactly this connecting all points to each other, any two points in space, any two delimitations, factoids, any issue, any two houses (cars ? persons ? etc.) on earth, any atom on earth is connected to any other, will be connected to any other through a sequential path of connections, thought paths, maybe even a long complex chain, but somehow connected, so zero space and time, the Big Crunch of the Universe into another substrate, the Information Relationship Universe having zero space and zero time (although there still is some relationship with time and space as a large memory of events and information extends in space and time, other strange relationships ? but any information has zero theoretical distance form any possible other).
    But maybe Space and Time are simply the resistance the “Laws of Physics” perform for an Information Relationship to transit from a Starting Point to a Target Point, the interdiction, the difficulty (but not necessarily) of going from one information to another according to the laws of physics (but most likely just assigned casually, for no deeper reason): but the Information Machine we are creating is eliminating any possible resistance from Start to Target information, hence is eliminating the “laws of Physics”…
    The distance between one configuration of bits from any other configuration can be theoretically zero…
    The distance between this configurtion of bits “YWY£/YE/Y/” and this one “RYYTYYTY%%%%%” is ZERO, and those bits can be associated to anything possible (even new Brains), although there is a small spatial distance, but that is just operational not inherent to the information…
    AN EGGMAN

  45. Vlad Krandz December 26, 2011 at 1:12 pm #

    As you requested: Indian IQ’s. The Ashkenazi IQ seems a bit high in this report – everyone agrees that it is the highest but it is usually found to be around 108. The 115 is their usual verbal score – not their all round IQ.
    But the report does show the importance of distinguishing ourselves from South Asian/Arabs who are distinctly inferior to Whites in terms of intelligence. Thus we are White and they are merely Caucasians – our poor brown relations.
    Now if White Aryans did invade India and defeat the South Asians – naturally there will be alot of mixed lineages with some still carrying the Aryan IQ’s. Also it may be more complicated since the ancient Dravidians may be different from the South Asians. These Black White Men have produced some great Mathematicians and had a Civilization before the Whites came.

  46. 8man December 26, 2011 at 1:12 pm #

    That was from:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177699
    AN APE

  47. ront December 26, 2011 at 1:14 pm #

    Favorite line in this week’s contribution:
    “But rackets as grand and insolent as these would not be possible, except in a culture so estranged from truth that anything goes over without notice.”
    “Seek truth with all your heart…”

  48. Liquid Lennny December 26, 2011 at 1:14 pm #

    Absalom,
    The prospect of “Open Source technology coupled with personal 3-D media printers is a most intrigueing concept. Perhaps for moderately complex objects, but a tractor or more sophisticated mechanical device, I doubt it. And though I know I need to clean out the garage I know I don’t have that much structural steel or many hydraulic pistons laying around. Still “Open Source” disemination of Information / Knowledge along with the requesite means to convey the information, ie. Internet, would seem to be a means to enable limited manufacture on a local basis as we head towards de-globalization. However, the energy problem is certain to haunt us here. 3-D printers still need power and the “media” source material whether recycled plastic, ceramic or biofiber needs to to processed from somewhere, somehow. Fortunately, I’ll leave the answer to solving those problems to more nimble minds than this one.
    The TED site is a bit of a problem for me when I see the sponsors are a who’s who list of multinational companies, but then corporations are people too, right?
    Still there seems to be some interesting ideas presented at TED, and who knows who will be inspired to take up the ball and carry it into the endzone. Glad you liked the link, it’s all about sharing…

  49. AMR December 26, 2011 at 1:26 pm #

    You’re spot on about our attitudes towards “losers.” The “it can’t happen to me” attitude explains an awful lot about American politics. In some ways we have never been a particularly empathetic people, as witnessed by our history with slavery, Jim Crow and most recently our overwhelmingly class- and race-based prison state. It is widely considered almost treasonous to deny that we’re the freest country on earth, and yet we have one of the largest per capita prison populations on earth. Our prison state is downright metastatic, but there’s practically no political will to deal with it because its victims are, as you say, losers. The same thing is generally true of our policies towards the homeless, although the latter policies are driven less by malice than by indifference.
    There is some residual empathy in our culture, but it has been under sustained attack from our politicians and media for two or three decades. The churches trying to revive empathy and the other virtues arising from empathy are fighting an uphill battle not only against CNN, Fox News and our politicians but also against mercenary churches and religious broadcasters. Pat Robertson and Joel Osteen do not encourage anything resembling empathy, but rather malice dressed up as righteousness and greed dressed up as righteousness, respectively. Rick Warren doesn’t put much of an emphasis on responsibility to the community, either. Other major religious broadcasters, like SRN and K-Love, get caught up in wedge issue sideshows and the navelgazing sort of praise and worship. Our religious leadership is either too malicious, too mercenary or too distracted to midwife an actual, meaningful spiritual renewal, and our secular leadership doesn’t have the moral clarity to do so.
    A part of me hopes you’re right about the coming libertarian scope of government, because the alternatives are very frightening and dangerous. Post-Soviet Russia is a prime example: the libertarians were widely regarded as mobsters and thieves, which some of them were; Boris Yeltsin was well-meaning but too drunk and disorganized for the job, and so he invited the spook Putin to clean up the mess. No amount of libertarian political correctness is worth a damn when a country’s pensioners and soldiers are reduced to eating dog food. Putin’s bargain, which held up pretty well until this year, was that the electorate would abandon its demands for open society in exchange for economic stability and less brazen robbery by the powerful.
    I fear that the United States does not have the political or moral maturity to weather a transition in the fashion of post-Soviet Poland or the Czech Republic. We have a lot of crazies with guns. If they launch a serious insurrection, as opposed to their usual dilettante militia drills, I have trouble imagining that the Army won’t be called in; it has been widely forgotten that the Army and the Marines helped put down an armed insurrection in Los Angeles twenty years ago. If the armed forces aren’t organized enough to put down insurrections (say, because there’s no way to pay the personnel), we’ll be in very dangerous circumstances. There are exceedingly few places in the United States where the local police have the ability and sound judgment to step into a power vacuum without making a total mess of things; alternately, if the cops just go home, the armed civilian crazies most places will almost certainly turn into African-style warlords.
    It’s a very bad sign that prisons are still being treated as boons to local economies rather than the drains on state and national treasuries that they are. With luck our governments will find ways to triage their prisoners and release the majority who aren’t dangerous. So far, only a handful of states have done anything of the sort, and the feds haven’t. If the prisons aren’t depopulated substantially and intelligently, the default will probably be riots in prisons that are understaffed because the guards are owed back pay (these guys are patently more mercenary in their worldview than our police or military), and likely the mass escape or release not only of the Bernie Madoffs and Rod Blagojeviches but also of stone-cold murderers and rapists.
    It worries me that our prison guards seem to have absolutely no discretion, judgment or moral courage in dealing with their charges; they are clearly much worse than our cops in this regard. It would be one thing if they were responsible for guarding a few hundred thousand violent psychopaths, but they’re also responsible for guarding well over a million petty criminals who are in the process of becoming hardened in their institutions. If the guards don’t come across some common sense and moral courage, we’re in serious danger of mayhem in any of our prison towns if payroll can’t be met.

  50. hreardon December 26, 2011 at 1:41 pm #

    Jesse Ventura had it right, but they apparently shut him up. He showed a Fema camp in Southern Indians, where it was surrounded by barbed wire about 12+ feet high, and the top inclined inward, with a rail head ending inside the barbed wire enclosure. The head honcho (?) claimed the camp was a rest area for federal employees and refused to answer further questions and called the police, who escorted Jesse and his crew off the grounds. Not too difficult for the rulers to shut down a program that brings scrutiny to their evil intentions, thus no more of Ventura’s interesting and informative show. The VIPR squad for the TSA should scare the hell out of any thinking American. Obama now has his wished for 250,000 person internal security force, aka Brownshirts.

  51. Vlad Krandz December 26, 2011 at 1:47 pm #

    Oops, forgot to Link. Carried away by my eloquence.
    http://www.vdare.com/articles/indians-arent-that-intelligent-on-average

  52. helen highwater December 26, 2011 at 1:53 pm #

    “An opportunity to fix things at the ballot box next year” – you’ve got to be kidding. No matter who gets elected, they are still going to be puppets whose strings are held by the very same puppet masters who are holding the strings now. The time when a change of government representatives can “fix things” is long over. Much more drastic measures are going to be needed for things to be “fixed”, if that is even possible at this late date.

  53. SNAFU December 26, 2011 at 1:55 pm #

    Howdy Army, Per your comment: “every doctor office, car dealership, restaurant etc. have a 24 hour broadcast of FOX News playing and the seniors just lock on and spew out the crap they hear. They are proud to display their NRA and their Anti-Obama bumper stickers”.
    Up here in Appalachia North Fox does not get quite the play you reference and a few of us, Old Assholes, are actually “gasp” liberal. Unfortunately your vision is in the main correct and not constrained to the geriatric set.
    I continue to be astounded as to the ease with which the 1% convince half or nearly so of the 99% that maintaining the lifestyle of greed for the 1% is of far greater import than a rational and reasonable distribution of the Earths resources amongst 100% of the Earth’s inhabitants.
    SNAFU

  54. Newfie December 26, 2011 at 1:58 pm #

    “swap lines opened up between the US Federal Reserve and the European Central Bank and around $600-odd billion in ZIRP loans flowed to over 200 Euro banks. Maybe that will cover the next two weeks of aggregate debt rollovers, and then what? ”
    The Fed has infinite amounts of “money”. They just add more zeros to a computer account whenever they need more “money”. They can keep the worldwide Ponzi scheme going for a quite while. I’d say the decline will be smeared out over several decades. As long as there is some oil, gas, coal, and minerals the economy will sputter along, although not firing on all cylinders.

  55. Jimmy Drinkwater December 26, 2011 at 2:01 pm #

    Hoo boy, a cheery little holiday message there. It’s like Scrooge having the same visions night after night……..kind of a Dickens meets Groundhog Day.
    http://alttransbikes.blogspot.com

  56. Vlad Krandz December 26, 2011 at 2:02 pm #

    We’ve locked up so many Blacks and Brown Criminals that there isn’t anymore room yet they keep coming. At some point it becomes obvious that something else is going on: that the gangs are part of a low level guerrila war. We’ll never have peace in this Country now with this amount of ethnic diversity – especially since the two major minority groups hate our guts.
    Yes, with some justification, but so what? Are you willing to die or become their slave just “to make it right”? Make what right and for whom? All Liberal Leftists are existentially inauthentic in that they damn the Nation and Heroes that gave them their privledged lifestyle and soap box. They grandly consign other Whites to pay the debt they so cavalierly have taken on. If you don’t like America and its History, then you should go elsehwere. Or stay since the Elite intend to make Whites as equally poor as the Blacks and Browns. That means you too though. You Liberal Middle and Upper Middle Class hypocrites aren’t getting out of it this time. Let’s see you walk your talk. Maybe you’ll get to be a butler for some Colored Lesbians or something. Excited?
    Note: We tried to make it right but Black Crime and social break down increased since the onset of Civil Rights. And now under Obama the mob attacks have commenced.

  57. helen highwater December 26, 2011 at 2:05 pm #

    Are you saying the loan shark organization only qualifies people to buy certain types of vehicles?

  58. PRD December 26, 2011 at 2:06 pm #

    Anybody see the videos from the new Michael Jordan tennis shoe riots? Hoo boy. Answers the question “will crowds of people react with grace, dignity, and cooperation if (when) the food/gas/water gets low?”

  59. Metzengerstein December 26, 2011 at 2:07 pm #

    What irony, using the CF Nation comments board to market a real-estate development. LOLZ

  60. Vlad Krandz December 26, 2011 at 2:29 pm #

    So far is it from being true that men are naturally equal that no two people can be half an hour together but one acquires an evident superiority over the other. – Samuel Jonson
    AMR’s “empathy” is just code for denying that this is true. His “let em all out” is the worst kind of left wing social engineering. He is correct that America is finished though – thanks to people like him. We aren’t a People anymore – just a rainbow colored mob. His image of the ideal state is a gay pride parade. Well let him and his eat cake – and nothing else.

  61. ABSALOM December 26, 2011 at 2:42 pm #

    A-Soak,
    Alright signor. If you say you read his work and don’t agree, that’s fine, I’ll take you at your word.
    To your point that he may not be much of a scientist I’ll have to agree partly here too. The distinction I make, however, is that the scientific method cannot be applied strictly to the study of human beings for obvious ethical reasons. Rigorous scientific studies do not exist in any mainstream studies of human social behavior. We cannot dissect uncle Fred, cannot force little brother to participate in experiments that could be deadly and so on. This is perhaps a good thing I think we’d agree, but your right — social science is a sketchy undertaking. I share this disdain for social theory and disregard most of the shameless literary snobs who portend to know something about humans based typically on not much more than conjecture or inductive reasoning. But it depends I guess on what one considers “strong” evidence.
    On the other hand, we never know what ethical boundaries are being crossed for studying humans across borders, or in remote underground locations, or on military aircraft carriers far out to see. Kind of Spooky, if you ask me. And it wouldn’t be new of humans to chop up folks and put’em under a microscope.
    Anyhow, one last article from Diamond, if you haven’t already stumbled across it. I enjoyed it, but I’m admittedly a “believer.” Check it out!
    http://www.ditext.com/diamond/mistake.html
    =========================================
    ABSALOM

  62. tegmark December 26, 2011 at 2:42 pm #

    The Observer, the Information Relationship “Interactor”, the Processor, in short, the slab of Matter (Mass Energy that is receiving signals from another “external” slab of Matter (but simply assigned external arbitrarily as there is no external or internal, only Matter self interacting and talking to itself)), decoding signals from other slabs of Matter, and living an experience of life or consciousness or anything else possible (although impossible to really define or pinpoint down or delimit or understand) can be seen as a kind of high frequency circuit that is comparing itself to anything it comes in contact with; everything it interacts with is being compared to itself (the frequency is the heartbeat ? or the memory activation of “who he is” ? “his conscousnesss” ? etc.) so hence the Observer defines the Universe 100 %, is the Universe, defines the “laws of Physics” from the outset, by how it is designed and how it interacts with all that it comes in contact with (but it comes in contact mostly with its own imagination, only with abstract symbols that have evaporated from reality but were created through a pain/pleasure event that created the reality of the symbol, even if indirectly, very indirectly and a very long time ago and through a very long – complex chain of reasons where all of single reasons have been lost forever in an intractable sea of vagueness…)

  63. helen highwater December 26, 2011 at 2:52 pm #

    Oh Vlad, for god’s sake, can’t you just ONCE spare us from your racist bullshit?

  64. Vlad Krandz December 26, 2011 at 3:03 pm #

    The Govement gave Black Women more money than their husbands could earn. So the Woman kicked them out and stopped marrying in general. As Yellowstone Rangers say, trouble starts where the dumb tourists meet the smart bears. Just so, trouble started when the Welfare Bureacrats met Black Women. White Women are coming right along now too. We need to get all Women on Welfare so that children can be educated by the State and the Family ended.

  65. ABSALOM December 26, 2011 at 3:15 pm #

    Lenny wrote:
    The prospect of “Open Source technology coupled with personal 3-D media printers is a most intriguing concept. Perhaps for moderately complex objects, but a tractor or more sophisticated mechanical device, I doubt it. And though I know I need to clean out the garage I know I don’t have that much structural steel or many hydraulic pistons laying around.
    =============================================
    Agreed, no man is an island of resources: even if you own arable land and a well for irrigation, one day the well will run dry and the farming equipment will break. The question is will fiat paper and corporate patents be the obstacles to replenishing supplies that they are today? If the economy collapses, there will still be a tremendous amount of “stuff” that we’ll need for survival left sitting around. The trouble is about agreeing whether to “pool” the resources or act stingy. Big issue indeed.
    ============================================
    Lenny: Still “Open Source” dissemination of Information / Knowledge along with the requisite means to convey the information, ie. Internet, would seem to be a means to enable limited manufacture on a local basis as we head towards de-globalization.
    ==============================================
    Simply put, returning to a point in society where people actually possess useful skills is key. Instead of spending a bunch of useless paper to buy an education at the nearest brainwashing station, It’d be nice to get together with your neighbors and teach one another how to build stuff. I used to love working on cars with my uncle. He restored Model A Fords from the ground up, and only ever purchased the mechanical manuals in order to teach himself how to do it. That’s nearly unheard of today.
    ============================================== Lenny: However, the energy problem is certain to haunt us here. 3-D printers still need power and the “media” source material whether recycled plastic, ceramic or bio-fiber needs to to processed from somewhere, somehow. Fortunately, I’ll leave the answer to solving those problems to more nimble minds than this one.
    ===========================================
    True, in a world made by hand there will be no indefinite solution to our resource allocation strategies, no utopia. We’ll always need to refine our methods; a process that requires all people who use energy to “know” something about the scientific method and natural rules. Constant innovation and adaptation = improvement, not perfection. Our present system require entropy and stagnation — arrested development, repurchase. Right now, we have all the means to generate sufficient amounts of electricity, we just fuk it all up by leaving the means to disseminate it in the hands of the few. The death of us all.
    ==============================================
    Lenny: The TED site is a bit of a problem for me when I see the sponsors are a who’s who list of multinational companies, but then corporations are people too, right?
    ==============================================
    Fuck’em. The desire to capitalize and monopolize the resources of this planet which belong to no one and everyone is the shittiest idea man has ever come up with, and it’s time is long past. And by no means does this require a shift to just another -ism. Human survival depends on ever new ideas, not defunct ideologies.
    ==========================================
    Lenny: Glad you liked the link, it’s all about sharing…
    ===========================================
    Careful, man. Some asshat here might consider you a Communist — a tiny little box to be in.
    Thanks again,
    ABSALOM

  66. newworld December 26, 2011 at 3:24 pm #

    To be blunt you are no moral superior, you are responsible for the liberal welfare state and we decent people might survive our bankster thieves, but you literally cannot outrun a low IQ mob newly equipped with Air Jordans, so thank you for being part of the destructive force that has done its part to ruin America.
    And a note to you “nice” white liberals, the gig is up.

  67. anti soak December 26, 2011 at 3:35 pm #

    For those who want to see shoe riots…
    SBPDL.COM
    sheesh the way they knock the door off!

  68. anti soak December 26, 2011 at 3:36 pm #

    ‘gig is up.’
    its JIG, as in Irish Jig.

  69. Eleuthero December 26, 2011 at 3:42 pm #

    Well, with the Dow at the upper end of its trading range and the public spending like drunken sailors despite real wages falling like a stone in a pond, the ECRI Weekly Leading Index is saying the same thing it said two months ago … recession dead ahead.
    Poor Mr. Achuthan of ECRI is being laughed at again on Bloomberg TV by the talking heads. He reminded them of their bullishness in April, 2008 when the Dow had regained two-thirds of its fall from December, 2007. The problem with these talking heads isn’t just their dumb hubris, it’s that after perspicacious guys like Mr. Achuthan prove mega-correct they forget to apologize in the aftermath of their disastrous folly of inaccuracy.
    ECRI has never made a recession call that was incorrect and they’ve never had a false positive. Next year will be a TRUE clusterfuck of a corporate profit recession, renewed consumer credit problems, and, of course, a resumption of reality in Europe.
    Naturally, the Jiminy Crickets came out in force at the top of this week’s thread to tell JHK that, once again, he’s “wrong”. No matter that the ONLY “indicator” that’s good right now is the Dow. Workforce participation is at a 28-year low, more people are stopping looking for work than are getting jobs by a 3:1 ratio, the Congress can’t even agree on a deal to reduce the national debt by 10% over a decade, more financial crooks like Jon Corzine roam as free men while a kid smoking a joint in Kansas does community service, and next year’s election, once again, will be dumb against dumber … or is it corrupt vs. more corrupt … I lost track.
    However, optimists such as Jim’s naysayers above, being what they are, will insist that pigs can fly as long as CFN exists. Happy New Year????
    E.

  70. ABSALOM December 26, 2011 at 3:44 pm #

    This is just a starting point.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPPDzErmFLk&feature=related
    What ideas would YOU bring to the table?
    ABSALOM

  71. Adam Eran December 26, 2011 at 3:58 pm #

    Kunstler needs to read the Modern Monetary Theorist economists. MMT notes that all money is “notional.” Historically it has not always been commodity-backed. The Greeks pioneered gold-backed money, but English Kings, for one example, marked their debts as notches on hickory sticks. Money arose not as a part of a commodity exchange, but as “I’ll owe you one.”
    This doesn’t mean the current shenanigans of financial markets are not crooked. The idea here is to gin up a false crisis about sovereign debt and use it to loot the public realm.
    The idea of money as scorekeeping rather than a commodity means we can never run out. Period. That’s not to say the Fed (the U.S. central bank) should issue infinite money, but the idea of dollar denominated debt that couldn’t be paid back is as silly as the idea of a scorekeeper at a sporting event running out of points.
    And the Fed knows this too. It issued $16 – $29 trillion to bail out the Finance, Insurance and Real Estate (FIRE) sector of the economy.
    But when grandma’s Social Security and Medicare are on the line…”Whoops! We’re out of money!”
    So the thing to worry about is *not* running out of money (or even “inflation”), it’s the transfer of wealth.
    Deflation, which is precisely what we’re experiencing now with record low bond yields, is also a transfer of wealth from debtors to creditors. Michael Hudson says it’s designed to make free public goods into ones with “toll booths” that pay the rentiers. And sure enough, whether it’s parking meters in Chicago, or Bolivian public water systems, there are movements afoot to privatize lots of the public realm.
    The Greeks, who don’t have control over their own currency, are a basket case because they can’t devalue their way out of the un-payable debts they have. Their creditors are suggesting mortgages or privatization on the Parthenon, their ports, etc.
    Greece is actually not much of a problem. Its economy is the size of Miami, Florida’s. The real problems are Spain and Italy, even though Spain actually ran budget surpluses.
    Anyway, read Randall Wray, Steve Keen, or Yves Smith about this stuff. Kunstler is great at drama, but if you want substance, the MMT guys are the way to go.

  72. AMR December 26, 2011 at 4:00 pm #

    Vlad, you distorted the hell out of what I wrote and put words in my mouth. You’ve made some sense in the past, but frankly your rhetoric today has proven that you are totally full of shit. Your intellectual dishonesty and purposeful distortion of my arguments has truly become contemptible.
    Nowhere did I write that we should “let them all out.” I argued that we should triage our prisoners in order to keep the ones who are a clear threat to society and release the ones who aren’t. That position does not make me some sort of stooge for every foolish or destructive policy out of the lefty playbook.
    For the record, I am not a doctrinaire leftist or Democrat. I’m pretty well disgusted with both major parties and most of the mass media, underwhelmed by the larger third parties, and looking desperately for alternatives that are competent and that have our country’s best interests at heart. I’ve written similar things before, so you have no reason to infer that I’m a left-wing loon, but of course you aggressively project that sort of infantile caricature onto everyone who disagrees with your simplistic racist and ideological glosses.
    At the risk of preaching to the choir, a brief housekeeping note for the rest of CFN: If you want to understand my beliefs, thought processes, and so forth, read what I’ve written. Don’t listen to this petulant, turd-hurling buffoon.

  73. scott December 26, 2011 at 4:08 pm #

    Who is still not impressed with the ability of these central banks, and their owner-operators, to keep re-circulating immense loads of notional money?

    I dont blame the Central Bankers, at least they are technocrats unlike corrupt politicians. They are managing a decline fairly well despite the crappy hands being steadily dealt to them by corrupt politicians.
    I think that the worlds terminal decline would be more sustainable if wealth were distributed more equitably. There are alot of if’s and as ole Dandy Don Meredith would say, “If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a merry Christmas” The status quo isn’t sustainable and can’t be in the long run enforced so I expect 2012 to be something different than a linear extrapolation of the past. I expect the U.S. and other developed nations to make every effort to prop up the status quo of linearly extrapolating the status quo indefinitely into the future except that would mean the developing nations would have to stop developing and take the brunt of(inequitable)decline.
    Maybe we will get a linear extrapolation of the past several years where consumption of things that are consumed on a daily basis declines in developed countries commensurate with increases in consumption in developing countries? I don’t think so.
    There is too much inelastic consumption by sacred cows in developed countries and that is where the line is drawn in the sand as far as the declining consumption in developed countries/rising consumption in developing countries dynamic is concerned. The biggest sacred cow being healthcare. 900 military base around the world, 2-3 wars going on at any given time and healthcare costs more annually than that. Without medicare medicaid money, almost every hospital/healthcare institution would have to close their doors. I could go on for hours about healthcare, particularly where “free markets” and other euphemisms are concerned.
    So if a managed decline has little elasticity left in developed countries consumption, and btw, focusing on PIIGS consumption while predictable and a drop in the bucket in developed countries consumption ain’t gonna cut it, then what will cut it? Developing countries pullback in consumption? A sharp decline in China? What will that accomplish? Chinese (human)energy already accounts for a good chunk of developed countries standard of living. At some point there is no point in China participating at all in the global clusterfuck if it is all give and no take?
    My forecast for 2012 biggest stories(yeah right, like this crash is gonna be televised) is in order of relevance not chronological order
    1)China
    2)U.S. energy production(not what it is purported to be)
    3)brief recession followed by rapid reflation(FED and ECB can’t openly print and juice markets with oil hovering at $100 a barrel.
    4) Gold low 1250 avg 2200 high 3000
    5) crude oil low 62 avg 135 high 162

  74. Buck Stud December 26, 2011 at 4:16 pm #

    ” Slouched in woe beside the Christmas tree, a lot of Americans missed the point of 2011:”
    Another point might be made that there will never be a shortage of “woe” lurking around the corner of a person’s life. And with so much woe looking entire societies straight in the face one begins to wonder how to derive satisfaction from a life so perilous and uncertain. Certainly money and security helps, but even at that, pancreatic cancer can strike down one of the world’s most wealthiest men in the prime of his very celebrated life.
    It seems to me fighting the good fight is learning how to live in the moment as best as one can while simultaneously keeping an eye on the horizon. And also allowing the rear view mirror a seat at the table of current consideration when need be. Without waxing too cliche, there’s a lot of truth to that old adage that only when fear of death is conquered does living a life become possible. Otherwise, we’re always looking over our shoulder or too far out into the horizon for the perilous sand trap that prevents a beautiful swing at life.

  75. hreardon December 26, 2011 at 4:38 pm #

    Well said Buck Stud. Being aware of threats to your lifestyle, livlihood, and even life, does not mean you cannot enjoy living, family, and friends. Might call it compartmentalizing your existence, but it works. No need to hide, or fear, if you are prepared for any eventuality. Hope everyone is, or getting, prepared.

  76. BeantownBill December 26, 2011 at 4:45 pm #

    Buck, great comments! It seems so simple doesn’t it? Just live in the now. Animals live their lives that way; I watch my cat do it every day. Unfortunately, humans have this big growth on top of their shoulders called a cerebral cortex. They’re too aware of possibility and too aware of past events, thus making living in the now very difficult.

  77. Vlad Krandz December 26, 2011 at 4:50 pm #

    It’s important that’s why. You see there is a strong direct correlation between IQ and Income. The higher the IQ, the higher the income. Now if you Big Goverment types believed in Meritocracy, then it wouldn’t matter nearly as much. Everyone would find their own level as per their abilities. But since you people believe in “equal outcomes” then IQ becomes a salient factor if not Thee salient factor. Why should I have to foot the bill to fund Minorities who don’t belong in College? Why should I get my place in a job line bumped because less qualified minorites want the same job? It can’t be made equal if they aren’t equal. And discrimination against Whites ceases to be a temporary measure and becomes a way of life. We’re already there now though many try to pretend otherwise. And pretending that IQ doesn’t exist or that it’s all do to environment is the Key to keeping the whole scam going – and keeping people like you in the money.

  78. Vlad Krandz December 26, 2011 at 4:58 pm #

    “Tiny Tots with eyes all aglow” – like demons. Did you see the way they tore their presents open while making animals noises? Little Consumer Beasts – already ruined for life perhaps.
    There is a strong aspect of relativity in life. As Castro said, when in prison you worry about getting out. Once out, you worry about other things. It’s not exactly zero sum but it tends that way in a life passively lived. We must become the Artists of our own selves and ruthlessly chip away at that which obstructs our true image or eidelon. Inside every skinny man there is fat man trying to get out – fat with virtue. The very act of chipping enlarges one.

  79. ak December 26, 2011 at 5:02 pm #

    Today’s word: brigandage

    brigand: one who lives by plunder usu. as a member of a band : BANDIT

  80. Vlad Krandz December 26, 2011 at 5:03 pm #

    It’s true I took a bit of license of that point – I too favor decriminalization of the substance you like. But in the main, in the spirit, I was correct. Your whole soft male spirit is wrong for the times that are coming. Away with Empathy. Close the border. If you don’t live here, don’t surf here. Gird up thy loins. Beat your ploughshares into swords, your pruining hooks into spears.
    And I did agree with you that we are finished: no longer a people anymore thanks to unlimited immigration by alien peoples – many of whom hate us. As if having the Blacks here wasn’t bad enough we went ahead and imported another hostile Nation (Mexico and her Central American Brothers) into midst. Thank Teddy. Needless to say that you approved all that. If I’m wrong, I apologize.

  81. metuselah December 26, 2011 at 5:15 pm #

    That is an extremely misguided approach. It basically amounts to burring your head in the sand. And contrary to your belief, it will condemn youz to death sooner rather than later.

  82. metuselah December 26, 2011 at 5:27 pm #

    ..burying your head in the sand..

  83. BeantownBill December 26, 2011 at 5:35 pm #

    In the spirit of the season, and in trying not to steal JHK’s thunder in his next post, I now announce BTB’s 2012 predictions, in no particular order:
    1. KIm Kardashian finds love again.
    2. A new wheat bacterium wipes out 90% of the world’s supply, and 700,000,000 people starve to death.
    3. Dale, Jr. wins the Indy 500.
    4. A Russian oligarch buys the Roman coliseum and moves it to Moscow when the Italian government begins to sell off assets to avoid default. The owner of the London Bridge (now located in Arizona) complains that the auction for the coliseum was rigged.
    5. The biggest scandal in the Catholic Church’s history ensues when it’s discovered that Pope Benedict was born to a Jewish couple who put him up for adoption, and thus gives new meaning to the question, “Is the Pope Catholic?”
    6. As the EU tanks, European money flees to American soveriegn bonds, which hit a low of -5%.
    7. Iran displays it’s 1st atomic bomb; the price of oil hits $220/barrel and the US prepares for a “raid” into Iran to destroy the WMD’s.
    8. A gigantic methane superbubble from underneath the melting Siberian permafrost pops into the atmosphere and causes a world-wide stink.
    9. In August, Nike introduces its new Pocket Rocket line of sneakers which contain a tiny cold fusion reactor that allows the wearer to jump 25′ and run the entire length of a basketball court in 1 second. In December, 250 people die at the Mall of America during a riot at the Sports Authority store.
    10. Joe Biden is replaced at the democratic convention by ex-pope Benedict, and Obama wins in a landslide over the Romney/Osteen ticket.

  84. Vlad Kramps December 26, 2011 at 5:45 pm #

    It’s their plan. Incarcerate or electronically monitor any and all disenters. An amazingly large number of citizens can be placed under electronic surveillance monitoring for such things as marijuana use, spousal abuse, suspicion of fraud, repeat traffic offenders, non-payment of civil fines (parking tickets, etc.)delinquent child support, that it really won’t cost much to keep us all under the proverbial thumb of our government and its hired henchmen. It’ll save a fortune on 3-squares, a cot, and a roommate type of arrangements at the jails, which are now full to overflowing. Now quietly raise your hands, boys and girls, if you’ve ever sped through a traffic light (I swear it was yellow, occifer), went over the speed limit, jay-walked, let your car registration/inspection expire. Coming soon to a town near you: severe penalties for not stopping at a traffic light, speeding, petty-theft, jaywalking, which will render the “criminal” unable to pay the fine and be subject to house arrest. Now when these “criminals” get evicted out into the streets, you’ll start to see some really interesting things happen. If you look carefully enough, the future I’ve mapped out is already here. Happy Holidays!

  85. metuselah December 26, 2011 at 5:50 pm #

    6. As the EU tanks, European money flees to American soveriegn bonds, which hit a low of -5%.
    ==
    We’re half way there. 😀

  86. bubbleheadMarc December 26, 2011 at 5:56 pm #

    Great essay in response to my far less impressive comments. I say “libertarian” only because libertarianism fits the no tax revenue paradigm better than totalitarianism, which of course requires far more staffing to run. And your comments regarding heartless religionists is very appropriate, as indeed a prominent feature of Calvinism is the expectation of the faithful that they shall receive their reward first here below, not needing to wait to ascend to heaven. This reminds me of the scene in “Hard Core” where George C. Scott is explaining his Dutch Reformed theology to the fallen woman who belongs to the Church of Venus, the God of Love, by employing the acronym TULIP whose letters stand for Total depravity; Unconditional election; Limited salvation; Irresistable grace; and Perseverance of grace. The mystified pagan porn actress and hooker helping him to find his daughter replied with a stunned “and I thought I was fucked up”. Scott was explaining the current overarching mentality of the relilgious right: that not only are they saved but they must be rewarded here and now for their virtue.

  87. bubbleheadMarc December 26, 2011 at 5:59 pm #

    No, not yet. But it stands to reason that turds burn better once they’ve been dried out in a solar oven. There is an incerator toilet which runs on either propane or electricity called Incinolet.

  88. bubbleheadMarc December 26, 2011 at 6:05 pm #

    They’re currently building a casino on the banks of the Cuyahoga right here in Cleveland. Everyone knows that when there’s a rain storm the sewers are overwhelmed and tons of sewage gets dumped into Lake Erie. Likewise in the spring when all the hidden dog turds get washed into the lake by the snow-melt through the storm sewers. And we drink that water! I know the contractor who last renovated the Terminal Tower and he said that he cannot believe that we’re still using sewers to handle waste when it could easily be incinerated right at home using incinolet type commodes.

  89. asoka. December 26, 2011 at 6:06 pm #

    JHK said:

    You see what happens: in the absence of the rule of law even prudent men turn to the reptile agencies of mind.

    Blood running in the streets is not the way to restore the rule of law. Hanging bankers from the lamp posts is not the way to restore rule of law.
    I am offended by the lust for violence, or as JHK says: “for some Grand Guignol action myself.”
    Violence leads to more violence, not to the re-establishment of rule of law.
    The rule of law MUST be achieved through non-violent means.
    As Gandhi said: “We must become the change we want to see.” I don’t think we want to become reptiles. We want to realize all we can as human beings with respect for all sentient beings.

  90. bubbleheadMarc December 26, 2011 at 6:11 pm #

    Spaced out the other half of your question: don’t know what it smells like. In terms of energy wasted there has to be a great deal of energy stored in human waste since each person eliminates over 400 pounds of fecal matter each year, and the waste-water plants could easily obtain vast amounts of methane gas thereby, which of course could be used for heating municipal buildings or even for generating electricity since natural gas is already used for that purpose. Army combat veterans routinely burned their shit so you’d have to ask someone answering to that description. I was in the navy where we always had flush toilets. After blowing sanitary tanks on a submarine the excess pressure is vented INBOARD and smells like rotten eggs. The tanks could not be blown overboard entirely as that would’ve left a trail of bubbles for the Russians to discover. In a similar vein our narrow custom made garbage cans were all weighted on the bottom so they’d sink to the sea floor and not be recovered by Russian spy trawlers.

  91. k-dog December 26, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    My comments on this weeks CFN article:
    Henry Kravis wouldn’t feed unemployed elves any reindeer steaks. Reindeer steaks are reserved for those who serve at his feet. Henry being a wolf prefers the taste of human flesh and likes it best corn fed. Unemployed elves will have to make do with cheese puffs and nachos. The groaning of ice on their frozen lake will get louder as the plastic buys fewer and fewer nachos but the ice will hold as long as the plastic works.
    Trying to make people understand how the modern financial system does not serve them is hard to do. Perhaps explaining this rinse and repeat loan cycle as [ $ 600 billion / (US POPULATION) = ] $ 1917.89 for every person in the country might give a hint at the madness.
    Truth has always been an elusive thing in any demographic slice but when the allure of a toxic aristocracy of mega-wealth and privilege are the very demigods of those acquainted with thinking then rape of the land by brigands wearing suits should come as no surprise. The fast food education of those acquainted with thinking in America lacks the depth to prevent the destruction of the rule of law. Vigilance and the knowledge that the greatest threats come from within is needed for that. The allure of the fourth wall has made marshmallows of us all; there are no longer souls to sell. They were all consumed long ago.
    So now with no frontiers to flee to and the land consumed by rot a last chance to save America appears. This solution is nothing more than the simple truth of telling the truth about ourselves to ourselves but that’s a hard thing to do with the narcotic spectacle feeding on your soul.

  92. metuselah December 26, 2011 at 6:33 pm #

    Correct. Physical violence in this situation will just play to their hands. Best to just democratically disenfranchise their institutions of power and control through the personal choice of ending all patronage to their institutions.

  93. Vlad Krandz December 26, 2011 at 6:35 pm #

    Black people wont respond with grace and dignity, I think that much is clear.

  94. Widespreadpanic7 December 26, 2011 at 6:37 pm #

    Another BIG SHOPPING DAY in the mall west of Hartford, Tens of thousands of happy shoppers descending upon the place seeking bargains, not one single parking space available, police brought in to control the traffic and the mob, making this the BEST CHRISTMAS SEASON EVER, with spending up, year over year, at least 6%!!!
    –WSP7

  95. ofthehands.com December 26, 2011 at 6:39 pm #

    One of the things I like most about farming is the winter break. I’m living on the vegetable CSA farm I worked on this year and all of us there are simply kicking around, relaxing, loving the calm that now permeates, and reflecting on the crazy year we just had. Granted, the head farmer is doing it a bit more than me–I continue to work part time at a farm down the road, with animals, which demand perhaps more attention in the winter than the summer. I’m also blogging at a decent clip, now that I have time to think and write. But overall, it’s a much more relaxed stretch than the summer.
    The nice thing about this time of year when your work actually ties you to the seasons is that you naturally reflect. The longer nights, the colder temps and the relaxed work load allows for and encourages it and you get a chance to think back on what you did during the year in a way you can’t while you’re doing it. I think this is crucial for figuring out what the hell you’re doing with your life and gaining insight into what worked, what went wrong, and in what ways you psychologically and emotionally screwed yourself over.
    It seems to me that this lack of a time for reflection amongst the general populace contributes to the inability to see what’s going on–and the generally craziness with which people search out distraction and comforting stories. When you work a job that has no ties to the natural cycles of the world and never gives you down time, it’s hard to get a handle on your life. You simply need the time to let your mind work through natural thought cycles.
    If anything, this is the time of year that can happen for a lot of people. Of course, it proves far too distracting most of the time, laden down with hyper-consumerism, the dealings with family (whether you like it or not) and the many holiday activities that most people experience. But I found even when I worked retail and before I found a new kind of life through farming that right around the new year, I had a chance for some honest reflection. It wasn’t anything as good as what I can do now in the winter, but it was helpful.
    My point, then, is that I wonder if others have the same experience and if the dawning of 2012 may sink heavy into the collective psyche. Will people take a few moments to look at what is going on in the world around them? Even if they don’t get all the underlying realities of it, I think everyone’s pretty tapped into the understanding that something is terribly wrong. You just had John Michael Greer on the KunstlerCast–I do wonder if he’s right in thinking that a good chunk of the population may start seizing onto the idea of 2012 apocalypse as they try to deal with that understanding of something being awry. Throw that in with the likelihood of financial chaos in the EU, the certainty that it would then have its reverberations here, and a bitter presidential contest and there could be some serious social upheaval this year.
    I don’t believe in the idea of a 2012 apocalypse, but I wonder how many might get on board as the new year marches on. We’ll see what happens. I don’t think it’s going to be a smooth ride, however it plays out.

  96. Widespreadpanic7 December 26, 2011 at 6:40 pm #

    Hey Asoka you’re in some unnamed Banana Republic reclining on a hammock and eating Mangoes, what do you care what Jim Says?
    –WSP7

  97. Widespreadpanic7 December 26, 2011 at 6:45 pm #

    Meanwhile bombs are popping off in Iraq like cherry bombs on the 4th of July. US forces have been out for only 1 week. No, we haven’t heard the last of that place yet.
    –WSP7

  98. JulettaofOhio December 26, 2011 at 6:51 pm #

    Lot more Ohioans than I realized on this site. I won’t drink the water in Toledo either, but we’re from Grand Lake Saint Mary area and you can’t let your kids or dogs near the lake water because it will kill them. This is a good time to be a bottled water distributor. We have well water which tastes nasty but is potable. It also keeps my almost white hair blond and has tinted my shower and our underclothes a pale peach, not a color I was trying for.
    Gas here is 3.39 per gallon everywhere except Sam’s, where it’s 3.19. My husband got tools for Christmas and I got a new canner and canning jars which doesn’t sound romantic but were just what I wanted.
    Christmas was allegedly big in our area, but I can’t imagine how. Ohio didn’t score at the top of the tax burden index, but don’t know why not, except that the study only counted Federal and State, not the School District Income Tax, Village Income Tax, Dog License Fees (Tax, only they won’t call it that and you can’t deduct fees) the Environmental Tax and River Clean-Up Taxes. I figured out that between all the taxes, including gas tax and sales tax, we pay out right at 70% of our income in taxes, but at least we’re working. So many aren’t. People around here are scared, and frightened people can do strange things. I don’t feel like wishing anyone a Happy New Year, so about wishing you a Bearable New Year that is Survivable??? Consider yourself “Wished”!

  99. Widespreadpanic7 December 26, 2011 at 7:19 pm #

    In Nigeria a Muslim group is engaging in some interfaith dialogue by blowing up churches on Christmas Eve. I was surprised to see it reported on by some major media companies here. Usually this is the kind of story you have to find out about by listening to BBC. Maybe it was just to egregious to ignore or cover up. Of course if its Christians attacking a Mosque that’s front page news, without question.
    –WSP7

  100. progress2conserve December 26, 2011 at 7:24 pm #

    Nice week’s work, JHK. And this is something that’s been baffling me lately, too:
    “I suppose what baffles many of us in the ethers of bloggery is the apparent failure of that demographic slice acquainted with thinking to register any objection to the travesties and organized brigandages of these times. At any other time in the life of this republic, such folk with active frontal lobes would have identified arrant criminal activity for what it is.” -JHK-
    Yeah, JHK, I feel your pain. Here we are on one of the most diverse and unregulated “peak everything” websites to be found on the world wide web. There are some deep thinkers to be found here, besides JHK, our host. And, anyone who pays attention, will learn new things, and ways of thinking, on CFN – every week.
    Yet – it appears that many of us are just here, hanging out, thinking out loud, and preaching to our own individual choirs.
    There IS power in group action. The internet should be ALL about group action. But rarely does anyone HERE suggest a website for group action – of the sort that could make a difference – something on the order of “The JHK for President – Website!”
    I’ll suggest two websites, both of which need financial support and active volunteers. Because the theme that the US will never stop demanding “OUR SHARE!” of world resources – is the big problem for the Planet. And there is absolutely NO WAY that WE, INSIDE the US will reduce our impact on the planet – without first reducing our population growth rate, which is largely due to LEGAL immigrants, and their first generation children.
    NumbersUSA
    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/
    Federal Association for Immigration Reform
    http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer
    Because human overpopulation is the answer to every question – about a better future.
    And the place to start working for change, is where we live, in the United States.
    And as always, I wait for any thinking poster to show me where I am wrong.
    Without recourse to one of the following as a justification for the CONSEQUENCES:
    1. Economic growth always good for the US.
    2. Moral platitudes – “we are all immigrants.”
    3. Ethnic dining and entertainment.

  101. anti soak December 26, 2011 at 7:24 pm #

    Didya see the news at Yahoo of the 20 something who bought a nearly 100? million dollar apartment.
    When she visits NYC she wants a nice place to stay.
    Her dads Mafya I guess [Rusky Billionaire].

  102. anti soak December 26, 2011 at 7:28 pm #

    and Detroit, Casinos for Detroit!

  103. progress2conserve December 26, 2011 at 7:29 pm #

    That’s good stuff, Bill of Boston.
    Here’s my favorite:
    “5. The biggest scandal in the Catholic Church’s history ensues when it’s discovered that Pope Benedict was born to a Jewish couple who put him up for adoption, and thus gives new meaning to the question, “Is the Pope Catholic?” -btb-
    Did you make that whole post up?
    Magnificent stuff!

  104. asoka. December 26, 2011 at 7:29 pm #

    I care, therefore I post.
    My family is involved. That would be the human family.
    From the comfort of my hammock, sipping fresh mango juice, I care. It is the human thing to do, at least for me, to want to lessen violence and bloodshed.
    What JHK is talking about is summary execution with no due process for bankers who have stolen money electronically.
    I do not believe in the death penalty for theft of worthless fiat money.

  105. Widespreadpanic7 December 26, 2011 at 7:31 pm #

    I received Col. William Brophy’s book about the Marlin Firearms Company for Christmas. I’ve been wanting that book for years but have never seen in listed for less than $125.00, which I figured was too much to pay for a book. My wife got it for $49.00 on Amazon.
    How does Amazon do it? Maybe this is one of the reasons Borders went out of business this year.
    –WSP7

  106. k-dog December 26, 2011 at 7:38 pm #

    Apparently, the nostrums of Paul Krugman are as powerfully narcotic as the raptures of Nascar.

    That may be true but here is one nostrum that can be sucked up a nostril without harm.
    With everything else that has been going on in U.S. politics recently, the G.O.P.’s radical anti-environmental turn hasn’t gotten the attention it deserves.
    It is important to know which dogs support the pack and which do not. Any G.O.P. dog won’t support the people but a S.C.P. dog will.
    k-dog for president.

    k-dog the Sustainable Canine Party choice

  107. asoka. December 26, 2011 at 7:45 pm #

    It seems to me fighting the good fight is learning how to live in the moment as best as one can while simultaneously keeping an eye on the horizon.
    ==============
    Great comment, Buck Stud. And it works… for everyone. No one need be hanged from the lamp post. We need not give in to base instincts to take out our feelings of frustration on others.
    Living well, fully enjoying each moment in the present, is the best revenge.

  108. asoka. December 26, 2011 at 7:54 pm #

    But rarely does anyone HERE suggest a website for group action – of the sort that could make a difference
    ============
    This is just so untrue it is ludicrous. Maybe you are not paying attention if you have not seen positive programs for change being proposed by many posters. You may judge them to not be “realistic” or to not be to your liking, but you cannot say CFNers are not proposing positive action for real change.
    ————–
    http://www.jillstein.org/
    Jill Stein for President

  109. asoka. December 26, 2011 at 7:59 pm #

    But rarely does anyone HERE
    ————
    And before you get on the WSP7 bandwagon of why should I care since I’m not in the USA.
    HERE is the planet Earth. Our problems are global. Environmental degradation, peak everything, overpopulation, extreme poverty, nuclear proliferation… these are problems WHICH DO NOT RESPECT NATIONAL BORDERS.
    ProCon, you have every right to have your pet issue and to recommend websites.
    But I think your harping on immigration into the USA every week, week after week, is a waste of band width.
    Our most serious problems related to human survival are not national in nature.

  110. DeeJones December 26, 2011 at 7:59 pm #

    “To be blunt you are no moral superior, you are responsible for the liberal welfare state and we decent people might survive our bankster thieves, but you literally cannot outrun a low IQ mob newly equipped with Air Jordans, so thank you for being part of the destructive force that has done its part to ruin America.
    And a note to you “nice” white liberals, the gig is up.”
    I really don’t see the difference between the so-called “liberal welfare state” and the Conservative Military Industrial/Prison welfare state….
    Oh, wait a minute, now I see it, instead of the governments money going to help POOR people, it just goes to make rich people wealthier.
    Do YOU really see this as a much better use of the PEOPLES money? Transferring it to the corporations and already wealthy?
    Thanks CONSERVATIVE, RIGHT-WINGERS for “…being part of the destructive force that has done its part to ruin America.” You sure have done a great job of it, and the best part? You have actually convinced stoopid, dumb americans that it was all the Liberals doing.
    “And a note to you “nice” white Conservatives, the gig is up.”
    There, thats better
    😉

  111. BeantownBill December 26, 2011 at 8:12 pm #

    “Yet – it appears that many of us are just here, hanging out, thinking out loud, and preaching to our own individual choirs.”
    Yeah, I agree with you. That’s why I keep saying for us to stop complaining and start trying to do something about our mess. Maybe the problem is that, after living in a welfare state for so long, we’ve forgotten how to take action.
    BTW, I did make up my prediction list. I have this perverse character trait that in solumn times – as during Christmas and New Year’s – I tend to become silly. Life is too short and wildly, wackily weird to be taken too seriously.

  112. ozone December 26, 2011 at 8:12 pm #

    “At the risk of preaching to the choir, a brief housekeeping note for the rest of CFN: If you want to understand my beliefs, thought processes, and so forth, read what I’ve written. Don’t listen to this petulant, turd-hurling buffoon.” -AMR
    To the first: I attempt that.
    To the second: I don’t.
    (I am of the opinion that the laddie spends most of his misbegotten life in “the projection booth”, so there’s really no need to engage with the 2-dimensional screen.)

  113. scott December 26, 2011 at 8:19 pm #

    OK, heres a forecast with a high probability rate. Since electricity bills have gone up higher than the inflation rate for 5 years in a row, I predict that electricity bills will exceed the inflation rate in 2012.
    Wait, what if inflation goes up so fast that utilities can’t keep up and weather patterns are moderate? Oh yeah, utilities want to get paid like unionized government(public sector) workers, there is no way they will allow losses. Weather patterns moderate? I predict that weather patterns will not be cycling back to moderate in 2012.

  114. ozone December 26, 2011 at 8:21 pm #

    “I dont blame the Central Bankers, at least they are technocrats unlike corrupt politicians. They are managing a decline fairly well despite the crappy hands being steadily dealt to them by corrupt politicians.” -scott
    Really? (The propaganda must be working as planned. “No banker left behind.”)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxaY_mxYflg

  115. Buck Stud December 26, 2011 at 8:25 pm #

    Met,
    Specifically, why is this approach misguided? And I don’t see it as burying one’s head in the sand so much as learning how to create and access stability within one’s self. When times get really tough and the future appears dire, indeed, when things look to be spinning out of control, I think it is very strategic to be able to “go inside” and slow down one’s mind despite external turbulence.
    I am not advocating whistling past the graveyard; I am saying the graveyard remains whether we whistle or not. With that in mind, some of the aware will choose to whistle anyway because it’s a bummer always being bummed out.

  116. rippedthunder December 26, 2011 at 8:25 pm #

    “The Times They Aren’t a Changin” (B. Dylan)
    I just came back from a little jaunt up I-91 to a belated holiday get together on the Ma/ NH border at my sisters house. I was speeding along in my Hyundai 4 popper with the cruise set at 60 mph. The Sport Utility Monsters loaded with skis and assorted crap were blowing me away at like 80-85 mph. “Gotta get to the hills before the man-made snow melts ya know”. I suppose with Global warming they could just cover the slopes with recycled plastic shards and ski all year. Tis the season. Nothing has changed!

  117. Shakazulu December 26, 2011 at 8:26 pm #

    Following BTB’s lead, here are my top ten predictions for 2012.
    1. There will be at least one week next year where Obama and his wife will NOT be on vacation.
    2. It will be revealed that Ron Paul is a former Nazi concentration camp guard notoriously known as “Karl the Kraut.”
    3. Iran will drop a homemade nuclear bomb on Tel Aviv, thereby removing all doubt that the U.S. Press is capable of lying.
    4. Kunstler will publish a “positive” blog entry, enumerating all that is good with America.
    5. Mexican drug dealers, while burying the dead bodies of rival gang members, will discover the Mayan Calendar for 2013-2112, showing the end of the world is a hundred years away.
    6. Unemployment benefits will be extended “to infinity and beyond.”
    7. Vlad will join the NAACP.
    8. The Republican Presidential candidate will nominate Sarah Palin for VP.
    9. The World Court will seek war reparations from the Rothschild Family for WWI and WWII, which will be paid in gold bullion from their many hidden vaults.
    10. Someone will predict the end of the world.

  118. progress2conserve December 26, 2011 at 8:27 pm #

    “Environmental degradation, peak everything, overpopulation, extreme poverty, nuclear proliferation… these are problems WHICH DO NOT RESPECT NATIONAL BORDERS.”
    -asoka-
    I disagree with you asoka., as I may have mentioned once or twice on CFN. The problems may not stop at borders, but the SOLUTIONS TO THESE PROBLEMS ARE LOCAL, REGIONAL, AND THEN NATIONAL – WITHIN THE UNITED STATES!! (especially, for US residents)
    To pretend that abolition of border enforcement in the US will make these problems less severe is ludicrous – no, it’s worse than ludicrous – it’s an EVIL way to avoid personal responsibility, and for YOU to have your high-minded cake while you gobble it down.
    ——————————–
    More importantly, for this website, asoka. – your begging and apologizing for high incoming US immigration may be blocking some thoughtful poster from actually THINKING AND RESPONDING WITH HIS OR HER OWN THOUGHTS.
    Why should any Politically Correct Liberal Thinker form his own thoughts and type them into this content thread – when asoka.. speaks the PC platform on CFN so effusively – every single week??????
    ======================
    So again, anyone OTHER than asoka. – want to tell us why the US has to have our current high level of incoming immigration?
    No recourse in your arguments to:
    1. Economic growth
    2. Moral platitudes
    3. Ethnic entertainment/dining
    -please
    So far – only silence, crickets and tumbleweeds on CFN, argue for today’s presently liberal immigration quotas –
    Speak, ye Politically Correct and Pro-Immigration Voices of CFN and the open internet – SPEAK!
    Don’t let asoka be the only pro-US-immigration poster on the entire CFN thread, week after week.
    We are waiting.

  119. BeantownBill December 26, 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    Amazon’s overhead is much lower than retailers who rent store space. And Amazon operates on a low, 5 or 6% profit margin. But its days are numbered because one of their main advantages is not having to charge customers a sales tax, unlike physical, retail store chains, as the company is totally internet-driven.
    The state of California is either proposing, or has put into law – I don’t know which – a state sales tax on internet purchases, which Amazon is vehently opposing.
    If the internet sales tax is, or becomes true, it only will be a matter of time before the rest of the states follow suit. Then Amazon’s profit margin goes minimal or to zero, unless they raise their prices considerably, and that wipes out any real advantage they have over retail chains.

  120. Buck Stud December 26, 2011 at 8:37 pm #

    “The very act of chipping enlarges one.”
    That’s a very interesting comment, or at least on the level of reductive sculpture . Paradoxically, a block of material appears more volumetric the more form is defined via material removal. And that is even more true for those who carve direct, i.e., without pointing up and reproducing a scaled down model in plaster in the manner of Beaux Arts methodology. Look no further than the sculpture of Henry Moore to visually confirm your statement.

  121. progress2conserve December 26, 2011 at 8:42 pm #

    “Yeah, I agree with you. That’s why I keep saying for us to stop complaining and start trying to do something about our mess.”
    -btb-
    Bill, I’m trying. I keep pointing out what is THE most important US/Global issue, and I keep pointing out a couple of groups that are trying to work on solutions.
    You got a more important issue or a better solution, Bill? I’m all eyes, ears, and fingers, here.

  122. scott December 26, 2011 at 8:42 pm #

    Yeah, everbody likes to crack on the Bernankster for all our financial problems. I like Austrian economics as much as anyone, except we don’t have free markets or any of the things that Libertarians typically pontificate about. We have centrally planned top down everything, the furthest thing from sound money, “economics as a science” as you can get.
    Just look at healthcare, there is at least one hospital everywhere in the U.S. including every rural area. Practically none of which could exist without Fed funding. The tentacles are stretched wide. Our government, or any government couldn’t have grown anywhere near it’s immense size without a compliant citizenry. Our compliance was our capitulation to social welfare programs specifically SSI.

  123. ABSALOM December 26, 2011 at 8:48 pm #

    The problems may not stop at borders, but the SOLUTIONS TO THESE PROBLEMS ARE LOCAL, REGIONAL, AND THEN NATIONAL – WITHIN THE UNITED STATES!! (especially, for US residents)
    =============================================
    WRONG! The fact is that unless the global monetary system is discarded altogether — NOTHING changes. And yes I realize that lofty idealism is a long shot at best. However, The way all these governments print and launder money is a global disaster with local, regional, and national and global consequences, period. Championing a single issue makes about as much sense as pissing in the wind. You two clowns epitomize the futility of Right VS Left thinking. HOPELESS.
    We’re way beyond sticking fingers in the damn.
    ABSALOM

  124. Buck Stud December 26, 2011 at 8:53 pm #

    It’s very hard. I think the value of meditation, or at least for me, is the demand for focus and concentration. To be able to continually follow the breath without spacing out or becoming distracted is no easy accomplishment. A very good instructor of meditation asserts that first one must become aware of “the countdown to distraction” before moving beyond the tendency to space out.
    It’s a very interesting thing to do, allowing oneself the space to monitor the mechanics of spacing out.

  125. metuselah December 26, 2011 at 8:55 pm #

    Specifically, why is this approach misguided?
    ==
    Because it tries to avoid responsibility. And it’s a moral cop-out. It also makes the problem(s) more and more “insurmountable”, both psychologically and in actual fact.

  126. metuselah December 26, 2011 at 9:00 pm #

    when fear of death is conquered does living a life become possible
    ==
    When fear of death is conquered you become a slovenly sloth.

  127. ABSALOM December 26, 2011 at 9:03 pm #

    I keep thinking about a distinction made by Chris Martenson in Unfixable: There’s a difference between a problem and a predicament. Problems have solutions. Predicaments have OUTCOMES. We’re in a predicament, folks. What, nobody tells the truth here anymore? WE’VE ALREADY JUMPED OFF THE CLIFF. It’s time to focus on the landing. Tuck and roll, or belly flop?
    If’n 2012 is the year the dollar collapses, nobody knows for sure, the only question worth asking is how our communities will either organize or demolish themselves. Nobody knows the answer to that question either, but yer welcome to speculate.
    ABSALOM

  128. Buck Stud December 26, 2011 at 9:11 pm #

    If I am reading you right you seem to equate “living in the moment” with shirking responsibility or an unwillingness to look ahead or search the past. I am trying to equate living in the moment with mental clarity, unencumbered by a million and one ego-projections, distortions, and outright denial that clouds the vision. If a person can’t live in the here and now with clarity the magicians will steal you blind, nevermind trying to read the past or future.

  129. Buck Stud December 26, 2011 at 9:16 pm #

    ” When fear of death is conquered you become a slovenly sloth.”
    That may be true for those living in fear of a retributive God, but in reality far more people are paralyzed by fear. Remove the fear and people start moving…and taking acting.

  130. metuselah December 26, 2011 at 9:18 pm #

    I understand what you’re saying. I also think you’ve moved the goalposts. Your first “definition” of ‘living in the moment’ pretty much agreed with my understanding and the general understanding of the term. But you have since revised your “definition”. Given your revised “definition”, I’m inclined to agree with you, though I can’t see how both the original and the revised “definition” can be compatible.

  131. metuselah December 26, 2011 at 9:20 pm #

    but in reality far more people are paralyzed by fear
    ==
    Not me. But I suppose everyone’s different. 😀

  132. ABSALOM December 26, 2011 at 9:24 pm #

    Whether you like technology or not, humans are already obsolete in a system governed by money and made hyper efficient with technology. So is the answer to abandon technology? I have no desire to become Amish.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDJ18m6KUW4&feature=related

  133. anti soak December 26, 2011 at 9:25 pm #

    NEWS..FLASH MOB CHASES DEE TO CENTRAL AMERICA!
    Widespreadpanic7………..Ya didnt see my post in last weeks thread on the App that will maybe put most Retail [outside of food n gas] out of business?
    It scans barcode in store, then ya order at amazon, from amazon.
    Abs, I like Diamonds writing but the one star reviews at Amazon [no plug intended] use critical thinking to rip his thesis to shreds.
    Vlad, ya see my post on Jared Diamond and DNA?
    ha vlad ya weasel.

  134. progress2conserve December 26, 2011 at 9:26 pm #

    PRD asks a very good question – for a “peak everything” blog, like CFN:
    “Anybody see the videos from the new Michael Jordan tennis shoe riots? Hoo boy. Answers the question “will crowds of people react with grace, dignity, and cooperation if (when) the food/gas/water gets low?”
    And ANYBODY AT ALL – who bothers to read JHK – should give serious thought to the question.
    And should give a serious answer for himself, or herself, and for his family. It’s an important question. And some of the answers are not, necessarily, at all positive. And MANY, almost all, of these answers do not involve a clear black/white/brown/racial demarcation – for any THINKING person.
    However, Vlad has short-circuited the thinking process for us, with a pat, and racist, answer:
    “Black people won’t respond with grace and dignity, I think that much is clear.” -vlad-
    ===========================
    Thus does Vlad, intentionally or unintentionally, BUT more-or-less-single-handedly sidetrack the CFN conversation into divisive racial issues for the week between Christmas and the New Year.
    Once. Again? That’s unfortunate.

  135. progress2conserve December 26, 2011 at 9:50 pm #

    “Championing a single issue makes about as much sense as pissing in the wind. You two clowns epitomize the futility of Right VS Left thinking. HOPELESS.”
    First, absalom – which two clowns?
    Asoka and me? You’ve got to be kidding.
    I’ve been trying for a year and a half to get asoka. to stop yammering on about immigration and open borders – just for long enough to let somebody else – anybody else – speak his or her mind on CFN.
    Beyond that, absalom, do you have a BETTER single issue that would put the United States onto a lower growth trajectory?
    For the good of the rest of the world?
    ================================================
    There are 300,000,000 United States residents. If enough of us engaged the political process and started making phone calls and writing letters – then the US immigration quotas would be changed, almost overnight.
    But, if we engage to demand that “the global monetary system is discarded altogether,” in the words of Absalom –
    You’re right, abs, that’s impossible.
    Immigration reduction is a vague possibility.
    And the only hope.
    Seriously, do you have a better idea, and a way to try to get it implemented.
    Seriously? Because I’m ready to start joining, making donations, and writing letters and making phone calls to Those Powers That Be – inside of the United States – where I have a voice, and a small chance to impact policy.
    Anything practical, absalom?
    The world waits.

  136. Liquid Lennny December 26, 2011 at 10:06 pm #

    ABSALOM,
    Thanks for your reasoned, thoughtful and considerate response.
    I’m in agreement with you. The answer is about all about having capable and competent people who aren’t afraid to get their hands dirty. Where it’s not about having the most “stuff” but having the most “us” and being able to give that away while understanding that the process of doing so does not diminish our worth but rather increases it.
    All the labeling of the -isms has been manipulated to obscure the darkest side of capitalism. There’s a lot of ideas out there that merit consideration and we could certainly improve on what we’ve currently got at the moment. In the end, our democracy will be stronger for it. Hopefully the new year will see the emergence of a honest dialouge of what we are and where do we want to go. But then I’m an eternal optimist. It wouldn’t surprise me to see an “occupy-spring” coming soon near you/us. Could be a more intense version of 1968 – Chicago style.
    You know, never a bad idea to do an ammo count, just in case…
    As for me maybe the box is getting tighter but I’m pretty good when it comes to spatial concerns and the occasional but necessary mental furniture renovation.
    A wiser man than me said; “Your enemy holds the lens by which you are most likey to see your true self, don’t be surprised if you don’t like what you see.” Makes me think, the U.S. has such an enormous military budget we must have a lot of enemies in the world. Maybe for once we need to take a look thru their lens…
    I know, the chances of that are slim to zero.
    I got to check the link you posted, thanks in advance.
    Have a safe New Year, see you on the other side!
    Stay Liquid, stay Frosty

  137. ABSALOM December 26, 2011 at 10:08 pm #

    A-SOAK wrote:
    Abs, I like Diamonds writing but the one star reviews at Amazon [no plug intended] use critical thinking to rip his thesis to shreds.
    =============================================
    What a joke. I had a feeling that’s how you made up your mind about the book. Well, for G,G&ST, on Amazon’s Hardcover listing, there are over 1,200 customer reviews. The OVERWHELMING majority are favorable and concurrent with emphasis on areas that deserve further inquiry. It’s worth mentioning that there are numerable other works out there that improve upon and address the given weaknesses of Diamond’s theses.
    That you sifted through other peoples criticisms to form your opinion leaves me deeply embarrassed for you, yet ever reassured that this country is WHOLLY fucked. Literacy in the U.S. now means reading what someone else said about a book you never bothered to read, then claiming those opinions as your own. This is why several people on this blog are nothing more than ventriloquist’s dummies, allowing any stranger to come along and shove a hand up it’s ass so it can mutter a sentence, or type one as it were.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLRQvK2-iqQ
    ABSALOM

  138. progress2conserve December 26, 2011 at 10:23 pm #

    From the JD paper that you posted, “The Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race:”
    “At this point it’s instructive to recall the common complaint that archaeology is a luxury, concerned with the remote past, and offering no lessons for the present. Archaeologists studying the rise of farming have reconstructed a crucial stage at which we made the worst mistake in human history. Forced to choose between limiting population or trying to increase food production, we chose the latter and ended up with starvation, warfare, and tyranny.”
    -diamond-
    Diamond is correct, absalom. I propose to begin to fix this mistake by reducing population growth in the only place that you and I have ANY CONTROL WHATSOEVER – that being, inside the United States.
    If you’re not willing to stand with me – you need to explain why.

  139. ABSALOM December 26, 2011 at 10:25 pm #

    Lenny, I hear you on the ammo count. What I’m really wondering is: how best to stack dead Liberal and Conservative sandbags ’round my foxhole(they ain’t good for nuthin’ else), to return fire from whichever direction necessary.
    Viva la Revolucion!
    ABSALOM

  140. Eleuthero December 26, 2011 at 10:57 pm #

    AE said:
    Deflation, which is precisely what we’re experiencing now with record low bond yields, is also a transfer of wealth from debtors to creditors.
    **********************************************
    Actually, what’s alarming is that we have NOT had deflation. That’s why my I-Bonds have been getting a 3.6% inflation premium on top of their 2-2.5% coupon.
    In the back half of this decade when all the walking-dead businesses really ARE dead and when the housing inventory normalizes, the Fed will not be able to sop up all the money chasing fewer and fewer goods and inflation will NOT be benign.
    Also, inflation is hurting worse PRECISELY where the common man feels it most: healthcare, food, and energy. Net-net the common man sees no “deflation” at all.
    I do not quibble with the idea that money is “notional” and I absolutely agree that as they print more and more and more … the rich and the crooked are having their best boom years maybe in the last generation.
    E.

  141. Boris December 26, 2011 at 11:22 pm #

    3rd, bravo!

  142. anti soak December 26, 2011 at 11:38 pm #

    GEMS FORM THE WEB:
    On Jared Daimond:
    ‘Furthermore, while Diamond frequently and gratingly congratulates himself for “exploding racist theories” of history every chance he gets, he constantly injects bits of whimsy which can only be attributed to viewing one ethnic group as being inherently superior/inferior to another. He has said that people in New Guinea are actually more inherently intelligent than Westerners, for example.
    Much as the predictors (like Ehrlich) of environmental and demographic collapse have been wrong very nearly 100% of the time, so too has the theory of GD been completely discredited in the eyes of science. There are several books the content of which, at this point, have basically put the theory of GD onto the ash heap of history. The best and most complete deconstruction of this theory is Hanson’s book “Carnage and Culture”. Hanson very carefully points out that the dominance of one culture cannot be explained by racial differences or diseases or timing of domestication of animals. In his book, Hanson definitively proves that it is culture and certain cultural values, not geography, or racial differences, or foodstuffs, or disease, which determine the success or failure of one civilization pitted against another. His book is the antidote for the poison of Diamond’s new age hippy-dippy “desire masquerading as science”. ‘
    UK:
    [THIS I FIND ALARMING BUT DO NOT BE SURPRISED]:
    ‘I spent 6 months living in the UK in 2011. Even then, I thought their laws were over the top, but so did many of the 20-somethings I met. In the same year, they released the two boys who brutally murdered and sodomized a toddler while arresting a grade schooler for saying ‘stupid paki’ after he was pulled out of a fight with a Pakistani. It always stuck in my mind the juxtaposition of what was criminal. The college kids cringed at the thought of a fellow student being one of those murderers, but they also were extremely careful not to speak out against ‘asylum seekers’ for fear of trouble with the law and school. Their political leaders are completely divorced from mainstream values. “Enoch was Right” should be a street art propaganda theme.
    Sadly, this is somewhat present in the US where people are jailed for spanking their kids or ticketed for not wearing a helmet while riding a bike while a rapist or murderer can plea down a crime to get less than 10 years in jail’
    [AH THE ANTI FAMILY CAMPAIGN OF THE LIBS…
    BUCHANANS WRITTEN ABOUT].
    CHEERS

  143. anti soak December 26, 2011 at 11:39 pm #

    OOPS..I meant ‘from’ but forms good as well.

  144. anti soak December 26, 2011 at 11:40 pm #

    ‘That you sifted through other peoples criticisms to form your opinion leaves me deeply embarrassed for you, yet ever reassured that this country is WHOLLY fucked. Literacy in the U.S. now means reading what someone else said about a book you never bothered to read’
    No I read the books………….

  145. progress2conserve December 27, 2011 at 12:01 am #

    The possible intentions of the original Framers of the US Constitution – percolate as important ideas – in the background on CFN, and in many political discussions inside the United
    States.
    So I’ll throw this web article out there, just for the, unusual, perspective that the Founding Fathers were no more perfect than today’s politicians. (WHOA, Man – let’s be afraid!)
    http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2011/12/22/did-our-founding-fathers-believe-in-free-markets.aspx
    Comments may be very interesting to CFN followers and posters. JHK has been sounding off on economic collapse for several continuous weeks, now. I’m more comfortable with his “believability?,” when he’s discussing environmental collapse – but maybe that’s just me.
    Motley Fool is a good counterpoint to CFN. Comments are more moderated there, but not a whole lot more moderated. And the readers/commenters on MF tend to be those who “believe” in the present economic paradigm, as it is found today – or at least those who plan to PROFIT from this paradigm.
    I don’t comment much on MF. This webspace just has a more productive give-and-take about it to me, for some reason.

  146. progress2conserve December 27, 2011 at 12:02 am #

    Hey Abs,
    I wanted to be sure you saw my 9:50 and 10:23 posts.
    Sometimes posts cross and things get missed.
    Waiting on you.
    Vital concepts, you’ve got to admit.
    -p2c-

  147. rippedthunder December 27, 2011 at 12:07 am #

    army, natural gas from the Marcellus Gas formations are our salvation in the USE US of A. We have 150 years left of fossil fuel energy. Fuck Appalachia. I want my MTV!!!

  148. rippedthunder December 27, 2011 at 12:17 am #

    Santa brought me gunsmithing tools and Blacksmithing tools. Plus warm socks for standin’ in the barn. I picked them out myself so I was not surprised on Christmas morning.! Bummer! made in the USA also. Sorry Mao!

  149. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 1:08 am #

    P2C wrote:
    I propose to begin to fix this mistake by reducing population growth in the only place that you and I have ANY CONTROL WHATSOEVER – that being, inside the United States.
    =============================================
    I have a sneaking suspicion world governments think about population CONTROL too, but in more sinister and cynical ways.
    There’s been a convenient resurgence of manmade super virus talk in the media lately; my paranoid self wondered if maybe it was code speak between TPTB to get ready to disseminate anti-virals to ONLY the people THEY wish to survive.
    Joking aside, let’s say I do agree about the need to CONTROL population. Closing the borders is easy, costly, but also simple minded. More to the point, how then do you propose to convince ALL the Michelle Duggars’, Shaquanda Jenkins’, and Lupita Sanchez’s of the world that the vagina ISN’T a stretch limousine full of God’s little miracles? How do you ENFORCE values of birth control, abstinence, and environmentalism on ANY population? Do you accomplish this through National Pride, Totalitarianism, Fascism or ANY of the UGLY siblings? You’ve opened a whole can of worms here, Prog. You need to get outside the box on this one.
    There are a host of reasons why people recklessly produce more kids than a finite planet can sustain. These are the most fundamental: to pass on ones’ genes, to cope with scarcity, to feel love. The first (Gene preservation) has to do with innate biological drives of sexual selection (evolution). The second (scarcity) has to do with the idea that there is safety in numbers when acquiring and securing food, as it’s time consuming and labor intensive especially for agrarians. The third (Love) relates to the former two in a world where fear of abandonment and death drives behavior.
    Biology is a rich science that teaches humans how they are similar but different to other creatures of instinct. Scarcity is faced with how well humans harness the power of the mind to develop tools to produce subsistence. Love has to do with whether people FEEL that they’ve fulfilled the demands of the former.
    Learning tackles the problem of how to overcome our base instincts. Coping with scarcity, for the agrarian society importantly, demands that more laborers be born to acquire subsistence. Love is given by allowing people to develop the most healthful and beneficial ways to fill the previous two self-interests; all of these require a social structure which keeps people connected to the REAL world, not just some opinion or ideal of it.
    Experimentation provides understanding of natural forces and biological limits to overcome base instinct. Eliminating scarcity results from resourceful tools powered by reality testing. Love comes when people become self-actualized through this journey.
    The only time people are ever ALIVE, SUSTAINED, and have LOVE is when they KNOW how to survive, provide and share. No social theorist has EVER told us how to do this correctly. But every parent who ever taught their kid to build something, maintain it then share it did just this simply complex thing.
    Prog, if your proposal is genuine, we’re waiting. I’m willing to join you. “The human family — your family — needs you, and you must be properly trained. You must know how to think.” –Paul Lutus-
    http://www.arachnoid.com/levels/index.html

  150. BeantownBill December 27, 2011 at 1:14 am #

    Ab, predicaments do have solutions. The difference between problems and predicaments is a matter of choice. All problems pass in time. If one is unsolvable, it stops being a problem and becomes “just the way it is”. A predicament implies a Hobson’s choice, where multiple solutions are unpalatable.
    Regarding our current issues, they are mostly the result of rapid technological progress; we are approaching the nearly vertical slope in its curve. Such rapid change creates great stressors in any society. I, for one, think it creates great opportunities as well as great dangers. Although the Chinese may not like it, we live in interesting times.
    As our civilization’s edifices crumble under the pressure and demands of advancing technology, new social structures, mores and interpersonal relationships will be violently borne to replace the old. Hopefully, the survivors of these times will employ and embrace, not abandon, technology.

  151. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 1:25 am #

    Um, excuse me but the best indicator of future behavoir is past and present behavior – and Black Behavior has been getting worse for decades. You must have taken a look at the crime stats even if you aren’t willing to admit it – shocking aren’t they? The whole Civil Rights Establishment – the crown Jewel of American Liberalism is a failure. You aren’t willing to talk about that yet or perhaps ever. Nor the IQ reality and their miserable failure in School. You prefer to attack instead.
    Perhaps I’d like to talk about other things but I can’t until these issues are addressed. Do you realize how unfair you are being to me? And in fact I do sometimes talk about other things – no one picked up on my Contagion post last week. No one has ever probably understood my Existentialist argument when it comes to America and American History – to criticize the very foundations of the American Conquest is to make ones whole life inauthentic as long as you are enjoying the fruits of that conquest. Strikes deep – too deep for most to even want to contemplate.
    “America was founded on racism” they bleat. So why are you still here? And show me a place that wasn’t. “We are trying to change it from within” they respond. No, you’re enjoying a consumer lifestyle and pretending to be a revolutionary. Total bullshit. The Elite got these people pegged. All the pleasures of the System including the moral superiority of being against the System. It’s enough to make the Angels weep.
    Indians once lived where you live. They didn’t want to give up their place. They were made to – and that’s why you can live there without having your skulled cleaved in twain by a tomahawk. Still feel guilty? Deal with it. If you could see that much, then you could see the Blacks for what they are. But BS begets BS, Lies ever more Lies. That’s why they wanted Public Education – to do to everyone what was done to you.

  152. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 1:36 am #

    From Cultural Values? Of course but that answers noting – just regreses the question. Where do the Values come from? From the Environment (Diamond) or from the Genotype (Krandz)?
    Golden Retrievers like to retrieve things. They do it naturaly. It’s in their genotype. They value it you see because it’s what they are.
    Blacks are hyper-sexual compared to Whites. They start sex earlier and have more of it. It’s cultural they say. Then show me a Black Culture where it isn’t so. Sure it’s cultural – because it’s genetic first. Now Traditional Black Cultures do channel it but their proclivity can still be seen compared to other Traditional Culture of Whites and Asians. It’s easier to see when they live in Non Traditional Contexts like America, and they can be compared directly to White and Asian Americans. But the hypersexuality is clearly evident in Haiti, Jamaica, Bahamas, Modern Africa and if one looks carefully – Animist and Muslim Africa as well.
    But, But, But – They have more Testosterone than Whites – both the Men and the Women. It would be strange if they weren’t more sexual in other words since they are different hormonally.

  153. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 1:37 am #

    Bill, you make much sense as usual. But I won’t ever forget that presentation from Chris Martenson regarding the exponential, unwieldy, and insoluble set of factors conspiring against our species.
    Perhaps your right. Perhaps collapse isn’t a predicament. Perhaps entropy can be thwarted, but as much as I believe in optimism, natural history’s ruins for every culture, every species ever in existence on this planet provides inescapable foresight. I have no doubt we won’t last much longer, certainly not to escape into deep space or some other sci-fi reality. But anything is possible, true?
    I like this reality. I have been lucky enough to stumble across the bright people who point out ways to prolong life, human life, but I’m not attached to a single species’ survival over another. This is narcissism. One cannot truly be spiritual and believe this way, not that I’m particularly Godly.
    Technology to me is not a be all end all, it’s merely an extension of nature, which we have been fortunate to be able to harness, however fleeting the idea is. It got us HERE, beyond hunting and gathering, beyond clubbing other monkeys that came to close to the watering hole, and it will likely kill us just the same. I do get it. We got way ahead of ourselves, too big.
    Hail the Big Electron!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cjRGee5ipM

  154. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 1:43 am #

    A heads up from Tom Tancredo: the Left is pulling out the stops to get Obama reelected. And they may try to effectively overthrow the Republic to do so. How? By letting the illegals vote. Holder wants to make the showing of ID’s illegal, a form of ethnic profiling. Why not? It’s worked up to now. The evil of this man is beyond all bounds. He must be impeached or whatever the correct word is.
    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=380533

  155. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 1:52 am #

    FALLACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Fart Sniffer wrote:
    Um, excuse me but the best indicator of future behavoir is past and present behavior
    ==========================================
    Vlad, you are the dumbest motherfucker I’ve never had the offense of meeting; but like Lecter, when things do collapse, my displeasure of you will be gone for the eating. You are the the last resort of food supply. Stay marbled and tender, dumb ass. One day that cellar door will come open and my dogs will be fed.
    http://www.propagandacritic.com/articles/lf.extrapolation.html

  156. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 2:00 am #

    The other side of the issue: New Guinea is a mountainous land of deep cut valleys. It doesn’t make for large Civilizatoins like the once fertile plains of the Middle East but small scale villages (later city states) like Ancient Greece. So the envioroment does play a part of course. (We admit that – the Enviromentalists deny ANY role to genetics). Now Diamond says and I believe correctly, that there is tremendous cultural divesity because of the relative isolation of the tribes and villages. And these different groups may be very similar genetically – near to each other they probably are. So why the big differences? A third opition – the Founder Effect. Small organizations are greatly effected by the qualities of their Founders. So why there may be some overall Quality to New Guinean Life in terms of agriculture and hunting – the differences seem greater because of the smallness of the sample. Neither Environment nor Genetics as we understandand can trace them, can adequately explain it all.
    Of course there are micro environments: no two valleys are exactly the same. And no two twins have exactly the same environment – even while still in the womb. Likewise, except for identical twins, closely related people can still vary alot genetically. In any case, in one Valley they adore Women and in the next one over they hate and fear them – and have as little hetero sex as possible. Genetics? Environment? No – someone way back had a bad experience and convinced all the other fellas to swear off of them she devils. This is how Jackie explains me.
    Forgive the lengthy double posts but I suddenly felt dissatisfied with the genetics only approach I had taken in the last post. I don’t deny environmental factors and Diamond’s books are superb in that area. But about New Guinea I think he’s wrong as I would be if I stuck to genetics. Perhaps Hansen is best here.

  157. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 2:04 am #

    You are sick scum. Get some help. Can’t believe you have trouble with what I said about the past predicting the future. Admit it – it’s the Black issue not that. You’re a Zulu Worshiper.

  158. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 2:09 am #

    None of the best biological researchers still maintain the idea that genetics are the sole determinant of behavior. You are outdated and outmatched in every sense of the words. The authority doesn’t refute you, but the evidence does.
    ABSALOM

  159. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 2:14 am #

    From the site:
    The tendency to make huge predictions about the future on the basis of a few small facts is a common logical fallacy.
    As Stuart Chase points out, “it is easy to see the persuasiveness in this type of argument. By pushing one’s case to the limit… one forces the opposition into a weaker position. The whole future is lined up against him. Driven to the defensive, he finds it hard to disprove something which has not yet happened.
    Extrapolation is what scientists call such predictions, with the warning that they must be used with caution. A homely illustration is the driver who found three gas stations per mile along a stretch of the Montreal highway in Vermont, and concluded that there must be plenty of gas all the way to the North Pole. You chart two or three points, draw a curve through them, and extend it indefinitely.”(Chase, 1952)
    This logical sleight of hand often provides the basis for an effective fear-appeal. Consider the following contemporary examples:
    If Congress passes legislation limiting the availability of automatic weapons, America will slide down a slippery slope which will ultimately result in the banning of all guns, the destruction of the Constitution, and a totalitarian police state.
    If the United States approves NAFTA, the giant sucking sound that we hear will be the sound of thousands of jobs and factories disappearing to Mexico.
    The introduction of communication tools such as the Internet will lead to a radical decentralization of government, greater political participation, and a rebirth of community.
    When a communicator attempts to convince you that a particular action will lead to disaster or to utopia, it may be helpful to ask the following questions:
    Is there enough data to support the speaker’s predictions about the future?
    Can I think of other ways that things might turn out?
    If there are many different ways that things could turn out, why is the speaker painting such an extreme picture?]]
    ABSALOM

  160. k-dog December 27, 2011 at 2:14 am #

    Is it too late to give everyone a Christmas card?
    Needless to say both Tenzin Gyatso and k-dog have issues with this fool.
    Can you guess who he is? The tape is old.

  161. k-dog December 27, 2011 at 2:18 am #

    k-dog will reward virtue.

  162. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 2:22 am #

    Right on k-dog! Ya got my vote, and virtue is a reward in itself.
    Merry Christmas and a Happy New one
    ABSALOM

  163. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 2:48 am #

    We all owe a debt to Old South Africa: as it became clear that a Black takeover was inevitable, they dismantled their nuclear capacity and destroyed any path that would lead back to it. They knew what White Liberals do not -that the Black Africans are utterly unqualified mentally or morally to control such godlike power.

  164. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 2:49 am #

    Linked is a beautifully concise delineation of Evolutionary Theory for Ass Hats like Vlad, the Inhaler, who don’t know fuck all but the smell of their own shit, and especially for the thoughtful contributors to CFN who haven’t the time to read the history of Evolution studies or the vast array of dead end perspectives floating about the bookstores.
    http://www.arachnoid.com/evolution/index.html
    Vlad is a compendium of bullshit, but so that everyone who accidentally get tricked into giving him a blumpkin now and again stands a chance at NOT agreeing with his bogus opinions, check this piece out.
    ABSALOM

  165. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 2:50 am #

    No I admit that – YOU ALL are the ones that deny gentics play any role in the mental and cultural life of man. Fools all of you.

  166. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 2:52 am #

    Now your just a cry baby.

  167. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 2:54 am #

    You’ve been demolished Vlad, you will never recover that stall, SNOOPS.
    OOOOWWWWWNNNNEDDD
    ABSALOM, the slave master.

  168. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 4:29 am #

    Brief White Nationalist review of the new American version of the movie Girl With a Dragon Tatoo. There’s review of the original Swedish movie too. Both are profoudly Left Wing and classics of Anti White Hate – as was the book. Sweden is portrayed as a dangerous misogynistic land where White males are running amok raping and killing women and/or Jews. The “Nazis” are just the worst of a bad breed. In reality, Sweden is a matriarchy where men are 2nd class citizens. There has been a big uptick in violence and rape -virtually all committed by the Muslim Immigrants.
    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011/12/the-girl-with-the-dragon-tattoo-the-remake/#more-21840

  169. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 4:42 am #

    What’s your point? You people “believe” in Evolution but when it comes time to apply to human beings you go limp and forget all about it.
    The basics of Darwinism which you claim to believe in: Individuals vary, the variations that foster survival will be passed on to offspring, over time in given environment, groups will form that have similar characteristics, if carried far enough and/or in isolation – sub species will form and in more time/isolation, new species will result. Polar bears emerged from Grizzlies a mere 20,000 years ago. They could probably have viable offspring, but in the wild they probably never would – avoid or kill each other instead.
    Now you people can’t even get past the first proposition – that individuals vary, when it comes to Humans. Even though you insist that man is just an intelligent animal, you refuse to look at him through Darwin’s lens. Afraid you wont find equality? You wont. We’ve been separate from Blacks for tens of thousands of years. It would be very strange if there weren’t some differences. Very strange.

  170. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 4:50 am #

    To symbolize the Perfected Man, the Masons use the symbol of the perfectly carved block; Zen uses the symbol of the uncarved block. Both are correct from their point of view. Though Zen takes the higher view, it understands and makes use of the lower.
    In any case, the Superior Man is not an instument and it the stones that the Builder rejected that Christ chose to be his corner stones.

  171. Desertrat December 27, 2011 at 6:39 am #

    “…to register any objection to the travesties and organized brigandages of these times. At any other time in the life of this republic, such folk with active frontal lobes would have identified arrant criminal activity for what it is. Apparently, the nostrums of Paul Krugman are as powerfully narcotic as the raptures of Nascar.”
    Useful knowledge on that subject is not found at Facebook or in Ann Landers or the Horrorscopes.
    “There was some hope that Mr. Obama would restore the rule of law, but he has gone even farther in the opposite direction by disabling even the levers of truth…”
    Even the Nascar Nation folks didn’t believe that nonsense. And anybody who ever read anything about those who were publicly claimed as “mentors” by Obama should damned well have known better.

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  176. asoka. December 27, 2011 at 7:51 am #

    I’ve been trying for a year and a half to get asoka. to stop yammering on about immigration and open borders – just for long enough to let somebody else – anybody else – speak his or her mind on CFN.

    ProCon, I have been responding to your weekly posts on immigration.
    I offered to never post again on open borders, if you never again posted on racist organizations like FAIR and NumbersUSA. You declined the offer.
    So, you are misrepresenting the facts, as you are falsely claiming that I somehow impede conversation.
    Nobody wants to converse with you Procon, and you acknowledge that every time you set up rules to eliminate legitimate arguments (shutting down dialog) and then you proudly state: CRICKETS. SILENCE.
    Of course, because you have impeded dialog. You are a resident impediment on CFN.

  177. ghostlimb December 27, 2011 at 8:08 am #

    More bad birds coming home to roost in the Detroit aviary – America’s city on the vanguard of complete collapse – inspiring anxiety and hand-wringing across the land that – “we could be next”.
    A generation and a half ago, Detroit – the 7th wealthiest city in the world – now faces imminent financial collapse either through bankruptcy or an imposed emergency financial manager from the state of Michigan.
    Jesse Jackson and senator John Conyers held a press conference this week (from a local church, no less) declaring their instigation of widespread civil disobedience if a “take-over” of the city happens.
    Legal wrangling will attempt to avoid complete collapse and chaos, but brinksmanship could take it to the edge. “When you ain’t got nuthin’, you got – nuthin’ to lose” can be claimed by the mayor, city council, state governor and the courts.
    What form the civil disobedience may take is anyone’s guess. Good intentions and deprivations of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness could put in motion people who have boundless energy to protest the sorry state their once lavishly wealthy city has become – somehow those same people have zero energy and zero leadership to build and upkeep neighborhoods, preferring to let them go the way of their iconic ruin porn train station.
    The greatest act of civil disobedience would be to commit personal citizen energy to doing-it-yourself projects – street by street, block by block – things that cost little or no money, but require extreme personal effort to clean up, beautify, make more livable. Too bad they’ll never hear that through the 50-inch plasma big-screens they consumed by the thousands on Black Friday in vast retail acts of consuming civil obedience.

  178. Widespreadpanic7 December 27, 2011 at 8:33 am #

    “Nothing has changed.”
    -Ripthunder
    You said it, RipT. Truer words have never been spoken.
    –WSP7

  179. progress2conserve December 27, 2011 at 8:59 am #

    “Nobody wants to converse with you Procon, and you acknowledge that every time you set up rules to eliminate legitimate arguments (shutting down dialog) and then you proudly state: CRICKETS. SILENCE.” -asoka.-
    Actually, I do believe absalom is willing to engage over the subject. Also, the KulturCritic has indicated dissatisfaction with my views on reduction of US immigration. I’d like to hear from him as to why. And I believe it is Neon Vincent, or someone with the Coffee Party, who has mentioned several times that HE disagrees with JHK on immigration. Then there is Mila51, who once said immigration into the US should never be curtailed – although she has, so far, never stated her reasons.
    Other than those 4 posters and asoka., literally EVERY other CFN poster who has weighed in on the subject of US immigration has been in favor of a reduction. Now – the question is – why don’t you let other posters, besides yourself, give reasons* why the US needs high incoming immigration.
    Again, maybe we could all learn something.
    I’d say any regular CFN threadriders know exactly what you think about immigration into the United States, a..
    Let some other people speak their minds.
    *reasons – I’ll explore this in my next post on this topic. And I’m trying very hard to have an open mind on the subject. That’s why I’m interested in pro-immigrant arguments that don’t involve growth, moral platitudes, or ethnic entertainment and dining opportunities.
    I know that you would share something NEW, if you could think of it, asoka.. – but apparently you can not.
    Let someone else try.
    The floor is open.

  180. geistlos888 December 27, 2011 at 9:25 am #

    Oh boy oh boy oh boy – JHK is going to post his 2012 predictions! Will there be another prediction of the DOW at 4000 in my stocking this year? will there be unka Jim?
    Note: JHK – “DOW at 4000” – actual DOW now brown cow = 12,294 …not bad Jim – just 8000 or so points off

  181. asoka. December 27, 2011 at 9:29 am #

    I’d say any regular CFN threadriders know exactly what you think about immigration into the United States
    I would say they also know what you think about immigration.
    Please stop posting about it every week.

  182. asoka. December 27, 2011 at 9:33 am #

    ethnic entertainment and dining opportunities
    This is a racist slur which you repeat regularly as a way to demean and slander. Immigrants contribute much more than ethnic food, but you choose to stupidly characterize the contribution of multiculturalism as restaurants and “entertainment”
    If I were Elaine Cho, I would tell what I really think about you Procon, but such language would not be appropriate on CFN.

  183. progress2conserve December 27, 2011 at 9:34 am #

    “A heads up from Tom Tancredo: the Left is pulling out the stops to get Obama reelected.”
    -vlad-
    Vlad, I hate to tell you – Obama is probably going to be reelected, anyway. Look at the bunch of baffoons lining up to try to replace him. And, Holder is a bad actor for sure – nothing he does will surprise me, and just wait until Obama’s next term. ugh.
    But, we’re ALL being played – the right, I think, much worse than the left. Grover Norquist was in the AARP magazine this month saying the Dem/Repub choice was simple – vote Repub because they are the party of smaller government.
    Yeah, sure – when BushII and the Repubs gave us two wars and Homeland Security – HAH! Smaller government??? How do liars like this live with themselves? JMGreer addresses it with “thaumaturge.” Brainwashing is the more common term – but JMG makes the best explanation I’ve ever seen.
    And there are still people who think Sarah Palin was a great choice for McCain’s VP.
    Politically – at the national presidential level – we’re over and done for and completely brainwashed – no matter who gets elected.

  184. progress2conserve December 27, 2011 at 9:39 am #

    “I would say they also know what you think about immigration.” -asoka-
    Actually, I’m not yet 100% sure what I think about immigration, MYSELF.
    That’s why I’d like to hear some new ideas from someone besides you, asoka.. Actually, I’d like to hear NEW ideas from you – if you had any.
    But you do not.
    You would share them if you did.

  185. progress2conserve December 27, 2011 at 9:47 am #

    Vlad, you say – “and Black Behavior has been getting worse for decades…”
    But that was not the question, Vlad.
    This was the, original and excellent, question:
    “will crowds of people react with grace, dignity, and cooperation if (when) the food/gas/water gets low?” -prd-
    My answer is NO. It’s well demonstrated that crowds of people deprived of food and water will behave very badly – without regard to “race.”
    Just don’t escalate arguments, Vlad.
    Things are bad enough as it is.
    ===============================

  186. DeeJones December 27, 2011 at 10:17 am #

    “So again, anyone OTHER than asoka. – want to tell us why the US has to have our current high level of incoming immigration?”
    I thought I had answered this before:
    1- Its to depress the wage base with legal H1B visa holders. Go to Sillycone valley and see how many hi paying engineering jobs have been filled with the above, while laying off hi-skilled US citizens.
    2- Its to fill the low end of the wage base so that US citizens have to “compete” for those jobs.
    But the overall goal is to bring down the US wage base. Eventually, you will hear the Republicans talking about legislation to eliminate or reduce the Fed minimum wage, probably to something like under $5/hour (probably under $2) so we can be competitive on the ‘world’ market. No thought as to how someone making that much is supposed to pay rents, which aren’t going down BTW. I guess you are supposed to work 4 jobs a day, 7 days a week? Hope they legalize SPEED tho.
    ;]

  187. progress2conserve December 27, 2011 at 10:19 am #

    Absalom –
    I’m out of time for CFN until late tonight or tomorrow.
    Couple of good websites you suggested. I’m going to work up a response or two to you, later on.
    And I haven’t yet seen you post anything that argues why reducing US immigration (especially legal immigration) is not a good, practical goal, or first step?, into slowing US economic growth – for the good of all mankind.
    I’m still waiting for that from you.
    Right now, it’s looking like your answer will be some version of “civilization/humans are doomed at ANY rate – so why bother even trying to stop incoming immigration into the US.” Which to me is a sort of “moral platitude,” except that it is masquerading as doomer pessimism.
    But I’ve got an open mind. Talk to us.
    =======================
    So I’ll get back to you. Meanwhile, I’ve got a question. You’re “Johnny Rocket?,” aren’t you?
    I was trying to get you to have a nature/nurture debate months ago – when you dropped out of CFN.
    But – yeah – same guy, gotta’ be.
    Same fascination with flatulence as insult.
    HUGE preference for NURTURE over nature.
    Same confusion of “your” and “you’re.”
    You’ve got to be the same guy.
    Welcome back to the brawl, man!

  188. DeeJones December 27, 2011 at 10:25 am #

    “I have no desire to become Amish.”
    Say, speaking of the Amish, I was browsing the Nook Books recently and came across a whole new genre: Amish-Christian Romance. Wow! Now, I wonder, is there a Amish-Christian Erotic section too? If not, perhaps I can start it!
    😉

  189. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 10:58 am #

    Good stuff, Dee.
    Needed the chuckle.

  190. wagelaborer December 27, 2011 at 11:02 am #

    What is happening in Michigan is the same thing that happened in Greece and Italy – the open replacement of elected officials with bankers.
    You are letting your racism interfere with your ability to realize that this open attack on the tattered remmants of our democracy is an outrage.
    Detroit is economically devastated because the auto industry moved out, not because black people are lazy. Check out “Roger and Me” for a 20 year old documentary on the beginnings of the exodus, and what it did to people.
    Any city that had its main industry shutter its doors becomes a ghost town. That is why they call the Midwest the Rust Belt. You can see examples of ghost towns throughout the west, where ores accessible by individuals were played out.
    Some citizens of Detroit are actually turning vacant lots into gardens.
    We’re all in this together. We have to find a way to feed, house and clothe ourselves, or descend into a civil war.

  191. anti soak December 27, 2011 at 11:05 am #

    Dee, on yr 2nd point, Didnt Obambi say ‘we need to be competitive with China’?
    Well Chinese work for 3$ a day and put in a 16 hour day!
    Yes the rich get richer…
    I googled ‘Soros evil’ and look what I got….
    ‘In 1994 Soros crowed in The New Republic, that “the former Soviet Empire is now called the Soros Empire.” The Russia-gate scandal in 1999, which almost collapsed the Russian economy, was labeled by Rep. Jim Leach, then head of the House Banking Committee, to be “one of the greatest social robberies in human history. “The “Soros Empire” indeed. In 1997 Soros almost destroyed the economies of Thailand and Malaysia. At the time, Malaysia’s Prime Minister, Mahathir Mohammad, called Soros “a villain, and a moron.” Thai activist Weng Tojirakarn said, “We regard George Soros as a kind of Dracula. He sucks the blood from the people.”
    The website Greek National Pride reports, “[Soros] was part of the full court press that dismantled Yugoslavia and caused trouble in Georgia, Ukraine and Myanmar [Burma].
    Calling himself a philanthropist, Soros’ role is to tighten the ideological stranglehold of globalization and the New World Order while promoting his own financial gain. He is without conscience; a capitalist who functions with absolute amorality.”
    France has upheld an earlier conviction against Soros for felony insider trading. Soros was fined 2.9 million dollars. Recently, his native Hungary fined Soros 2.2 million dollars for “illegal market manipulation.” Elizabeth Crum writes that the Hungarian economy has been in a state of transition as the country seeks to become more financially stable and westernized. [Soros’] deliberately driving down the share price of its largest bank put Hungary ‘s economy into a wicked tailspin, one from which it is still trying to recover.
    My point here is that Soros is a planetary parasite. His grasp, greed, and gluttony have a global reach. But what about America? Soros told Australia’s national newspaper The Australian, “America, as the centre of the globalized financial markets, was sucking up the savings of the world. This is now over. The game is out,” he said, adding that the time has come for “a very serious adjustment” in American’s consumption habits. He implied that he was the one with the power to bring this about.”
    Soros: “World financial crisis was “stimulating” and “in a way, the culmination of my life’s work.”
    Obama has recently promised 10 billion of our tax dollars to Brazil, in order to give them a leg-up in expanding their offshore oil fields. Obama’s largesse towards Brazil came shortly after his political financial backer, George Soros, invested heavily in Brazilian oil (Petrobras).
    Tait Trussel writes, “The Petrobras loan may be a windfall for Soros and Brazil, but it is a bad deal for the U.S. The American Petroleum Institute estimates that oil exploration in the U.S. could create 160,000 new, well-paying jobs, as well as $1.7 trillion in revenues to federal, state, and local governments, all while fostering greater energy security and independence.”
    A blog you might want to keep an eye on is http://www.SorosWatch.com. Their mission: “This blog is dedicated to all who have suffered due to the ruthless financial pursuits of George Soros. Your stories are many and varied, but the theme is the same: the destructive power of greed without conscience. We pledge to tirelessly watch Soros wherever he goes and to print the truth in the hope that he will one day be made to stop preying upon the world’s poor, that justice will be served.”
    Back to America. Soros has been actively working to destroy America from the inside out for some years now. People have been warning us. Two years ago, news sources reported that “Soros [is] an extremist who wants open borders, a one-world foreign policy, legalized drugs, euthanasia, and on and on. This is off-the-chart dangerous.” In 1997 Rachel Ehrenfeld wrote, “Soros uses his philanthropy to change or more accurately, deconstruct the moral values and attitudes of the Western world, and particularly of the American people. His “open society” is not about freedom; it is about license. His vision rejects the notion of ordered liberty, in favor of a PROGRESSIVE ideology of rights and entitlements.”
    Perhaps the most important of these “whistle blowers” are David Horowitz and Richard Poe. Their book The Shadow Party outlines in detail how Soros hijacked the Democratic Party, and now owns it lock, stock, and barrel.
    Soros has been packing the Democratic Party with radicals, and ousting moderate Democrats for years. The Shadow Party became the Shadow’…………..

  192. anti soak December 27, 2011 at 11:09 am #

    What da ya know of Aborigines?
    They left Africa long ago and had ‘undiluted’ DNA, till whites showed up.

  193. anti soak December 27, 2011 at 11:14 am #

    ‘Please stop posting about it every week’
    typical lib, trying to censure people

  194. wagelaborer December 27, 2011 at 11:25 am #

    Yeah, I’ve pointed that out also, Dee. He doesn’t pay attention.
    Obama has stated very clearly that the American worker must become “competitive” with the Chinese.
    He just doesn’t say what that means. But, clearly, American wages are being driven down to low enough that when the oil runs out, and shipping costs become exhorbitant, the capitalists will still be able to make extreme profits from national manufacturing.

  195. San Jose Mom 51 December 27, 2011 at 11:29 am #

    Vlad,
    Behavior and values are all over map in my neck of the woods, there are so many factors, and it’s so complex, it’s hard to predict outcomes.
    I like to observe human behavior. While Christmas shopping, I noticed how various mothers interacted with their kids. In some cases it was shocking, and sometimes it was beautiful.
    I look at the kids at my church–who knows how things will turn out for various families? The worst-behaved kids (feral!)are the offspring of a Harvard-educated mom.
    I can make a few racial conclusions from my own personal experience as a mom.
    1. I only see whites and asians bringing kids to art museums. Ditto for national parks.
    2. The lower classes will vacation again and again at Disneyland. Their cultural exposure is appalling.
    3. Recently-arrived Russians make the best teachers — dancing, piano, violin, etc.
    4. Latino children of parents who don’t speak English are going to suffer through high school.
    5. Chinese and Indian parents push their kids too hard and are going to have kids with serious emotional/mental issues as adults. Yeah, they’ll have high incomes, but their is more to life than a prestigious university/job.

  196. asoka. December 27, 2011 at 11:43 am #

    Conservatives want to limit freedom of movement … Like Cain said to keep the Mexicans out you need to electrify the fence strong enough to kill them.
    Uteruses, gay marriages, halucogens, etc. conservatives want to suppress freedom.

  197. jerry December 27, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    Hello James. A happy new year to you and all of you commenters. We have been here weekly for many moons now, and little changes in the streets of Washington, DC. Instead, we see viper radicals wanting to become president lining the GOP podium. What will solidify an Obama victory would be Da’Trumpster running as a Independent, as he has recently inferred.
    The world is operating on a shell game mentality. The commoner is angry but really has nowhere to go. The fatcat elite keep spinning the Wheel of Fortune each and everyday. Those elected representatives, wealthy as they are, continue to gum up the system with attached bills to the major bills hoping to bring about a massively long XL Pipeline down the bowels of the nation to the anus port of Koch Bro refineries in Texas. All the while, the Canadians don’t want to build the damn thing themselves.
    The Golums in Congress want to strangle working people and make them even more an indentured servant by keeping the country from creating a new vision, such as localized/neighborhood/community based energy generation plants, support for an expansion of localized food sources/farms, effective mass transit systems, more affordable healthcare, an end to war profiteering, along with an end to wars and occupations, and an end to the war stimulus packages, and finally, reinstating Glass-Steagall, and ending the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, and an end to the corporation as a citizen followed by an end to private funding for elections. The list is endless!
    http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

  198. asoka. December 27, 2011 at 11:52 am #

    Except conservatives want to impose their values on everyone and enforce them with police and prisons. And they don’t say please. I only directed a polite request to Procon’s obsessive posts on immigration and I asked by saying please. That is what you consider suppressing freedom?
    In an earlier post I told Procon he has every right to post. You ignored that and twisted a polite request into a codemnation of liberals.

  199. asoka. December 27, 2011 at 11:58 am #

    These are the kind of suggestions for positive change thatProcon ignores in his incessant pleas for attention … using the grandchildren as shields.

  200. progress2conserve December 27, 2011 at 11:59 am #

    OK, one more post for now –
    “Yeah, I’ve pointed that out also, Dee. He doesn’t pay attention.” -wageL-
    Pretty sure Dee was being sarcastic in her answer to me – naming a NEGATIVE about high US immigration (depression of wages for US citizens), but phrasing it sarcastically like it was a positive.
    Either that, or Dee’s H-I-B answer is a simple variant on “immigrants for US economic growth,” -asoka.’s favorite.
    ——————-
    And absalom, you posted right after me – so you may have missed my 10:19 post. I’m going to wait until I hear from you about
    1. your BETTER or more PRACTICAL idea than stopping US immigration to solve the world’s problems
    and
    2.”johnny rocket,” (gotta’ be you, whether you’ll admit it or not is another question)
    before trying to go any further with you about nature vs. nurture, and emotion/belief/facts/ideas etc, etc. (from the 2 websites)
    But my bottom line will be both nature and nurture are important – but nature is more important. You will argue the opposite. Not sure we can take that much further than that – but I’m willing to try, if you want to do so.
    gotta’ go

  201. charliefoxtrot December 27, 2011 at 12:14 pm #

    WTF??!! whether i agree or not, where do you get that shit from? throughout history, it has been liberals who have fought AGAINST censorship! and fuck you, you are able to speak for or against liberals because of those sacrifices…and anyway, what is wrong with being liberal in the first place- wasn t this country FOUNDED by people espousing liberty? all apologies if you were kidding, but goddamnit, i get so sick of the hypocrisy that spews forth from ‘conservatives’ about big govt- heard of the war on drugs? or the whole right-to-life crowd, who obviously have never experienced systemic and unrelenting rape (at least not as a victim) and censorship- ever heard of joe mcarthy? i would seriously like to know where the meme about ‘liberal censorship’ comes from- this is not the first time i ve seen it

  202. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 12:21 pm #

    P2C wrote:
    And I haven’t yet seen you post anything that argues why reducing US immigration (especially legal immigration) is not a good, practical goal, or first step?
    ==========================================
    I tried to suggest why such thinking would lead to rigid CONTROL policies, more government interference in our lives, but you missed it because you are simple minded and verbose, not articulate.
    Actually, your plan may already be in place. Obama is deporting illegals and restricting general immigration far more than his last two predecessors.
    My own view, absent idealism, is that we are likely to see during collapse a time where states consolidate into regional chunks organized around the most productive remaining swaths of land. There will exist enclaves of wealth perhaps surrounded by border fences and patrols of corporate military men. The outsiders will be restricted to the wasteland, whereupon their entry and exit to the systems of affluence that do still exist will be granted or denied based on their utility to the system. If you are “useless or uncomfortable with absolute conformity” you will be turned away. Who knows exactly how this will manifest, I certainly can’t predict it sufficiently, but this is the path you’ve started us down with Anti – (Im)migration talk. You can toil that argument alone, I’m interested in solving the problems that make such rigidity unnecessary.
    ======================================
    P2C:
    , into slowing US economic growth – for the good of all mankind.
    ==============================================
    40 years ago the living wage froze in this country. What workers no longer earned in wages was lent to them in credit, so they could cope with the fact that an advancing standard of living (the American Dream) was no longer possible. People consumed their way to the nightmare scenario we are in now. Now, dumbshits like you bicker that niggers and beaners and women and whichever minority you dislike have come in and taken all the jobs. This is true and misleading. This society advanced when it allowed women and minorities better access to employment, but the real result was that it was no longer necessary to raise wages. People were replaced by people long before technology was a threat. But to pile on the trouble, the computer replaced routine production by humans possessed of average intelligence with artificial intelligence. Social benefits and workplaces comprised of dignity are no longer necessary in any meaningful sense. This is why “they’re” after your social security and pension checks today. You are redundant.
    This is why no candidate running will EVER genuinely produce “Immigration Reform.” This issue, too, is a moral platitude, but tailored to a right-wing mindset. However, as I described above, a plan to significantly restrict and CONTROL population in the face of sure(?) collapse is likely underway. So maybe I’m wrong: one day we may wake up in a police state, if we’re not already here. Wake up, dummy. We’re living the Neo Conservative/Neo Liberal “dream” as we speak.
    Next, Liberals who talk out of their asses and proselytize about how this country was made great by diversity of thought and the back breaking labor from (im)migration aren’t wrong, but they’re pandering. You are accidentally correct there. America owes its entire founding to borrowed and stolen ideas from other lands. Liberals play right into the hands of the Neo Liberal agenda of cheap labor supply and maximum profit. There’s not much more to be said about it.
    So, Prog, your focusing on the symptoms and not the root causes just like every other political wonk out there. This is why this country can’t solve ANY of its problems. If Liberals and Conservatives had any true interest in addressing this issue, or preventing it in the first place, YOUR GENERATION would have demanded WAGE equality over racial and sexual equality 40 years ago. Racial and sexual equality are important but indentured servitude and outright slavery provides equal opportunity employment.
    WAKE THE FUCK UP!
    =================================
    P2C:
    I’m still waiting for that from you.
    =====================================
    You’ve been served. But much of this will fly right over your head, as you bounce to some oblique pseudo-point.
    ======================================
    P2C:
    Right now, it’s looking like your answer will be some version of “civilization/humans are doomed at ANY rate – so why bother even trying to stop incoming immigration into the US.” Which to me is a sort of “moral platitude,” except that it is masquerading as doomer pessimism.
    ======================================
    Doomster realism is a more preferential term, but you’re free to label it with whatever moral platitude serves you best. I’m bored of you Prog, please take up this conversation with Asoka again. Oh, and you need to understand that the Nature VS Nurture juxtaposition is a bunk one. The two are interrelated, not opposed. Learn the theory before you form an opinion of it.
    ABSALOM

  203. metuselah December 27, 2011 at 12:36 pm #

    Nothing is by accident. Everything is planned. Libyan, Syria invasion planned years in advance:
    http://goo.gl/eecIC

  204. metuselah December 27, 2011 at 12:53 pm #

    Excerpt from Vatican Assassins – by Eric Phelps
    The purpose of the expose’ of the Twentieth Century is to prove the
    assassination of President John F. Kennedy, ordered by Jesuit Superior General
    Jean-Baptiste Janssens and executed by Pope Paul VI, was carried out by “the
    American Pope,” Francis Cardinal Spellman. Spellman, being the Archbishop of
    New York, was “the American Military Vicar” and therefore used his most
    obedient soldiers – certain Knights of Malta, Shriner Freemasons, Knights of
    Columbus and Mafia Dons – in carrying out his orders from Rome.
    The single reason for the President’s assassination was his interference with
    the purpose of the Jesuits’ Fourteenth Amendment American Empire created in
    1868. That purpose was to restore and maintain the worldwide Temporal
    (political) Power of that Jesuit Creation of 1870 — the “infallible” Pope. In
    resisting the Pope’s Temporal Power, he threatened the monopoly of the Jesuits’
    Federal Reserve Bank by enacting Executive Order 11110 (4 June 1963) thereby
    injecting into the economy nearly five billion dollars (4.7) in interest-free United
    States Notes, only to be recalled the day after his burial.
    The President also attempted to break the foremost international intelligence
    arm of the Vatican’s Jesuits – the evil Central Intelligence Agency – “into a
    thousand pieces.” In 1963 the CIA was manned by many of Hitler’s old warriors –
    the Jesuit-controlled Nazi SS – turned “cold warriors.” According to the great
    Frenchman, Edmond Paris in his The Secret History of the Jesuits, it was a Jesuit-
    controlled priest Bernhardt Stempfle who wrote Hitler’s Mein Kampf. This fact is
    further confirmed by one of the founders of the Nazi Party, Roman Catholic Otto
    Strasser, in his revealing book, Hitler and I. It was Roman Catholic Hitler who said
    of the Roman Catholic Himmler, having modeled the SS after the Jesuit Order,
    “I can see Himmler as our Ignatius of Loyola.”
    And lastly, the feared SD – the Central Security Service of the SS (after which
    the American CIA would be modeled with the help of the repatriated Nazi General,
    Reinhard Gehlen) – was also overseen by Himmler. Himmler’s father, Gebhard
    Himmler, being a Jesuit Temporal Coadjutor and schoolmaster for the Roman
    Catholic Wittelsbach royal family of Bavaria, was the culprit behind his methodical
    son becoming the bloodiest Inquisitor in the history of the Society of Jesus. Himmler
    also commanded Martin Bormann. For the Order sponsored Bormann’s rise to
    power through Xavier Schwarz, its Reich Party Treasurer and also a brother
    Knight of Malta to Franz von Papen! (Roman Catholic Martin Bormann (whose
    eldest son, Adolf Martin Bormann, became a Jesuit priest to the Congo) later
    escaped from Hitler’s bunker in Berlin to South America (in the disguise of a Jesuit
    according to Nino Lo Bello’s Vatican Papers) via the Pope’s Vatican Ratlines and
    became a lay brother of the Jesuits’ Redemptorist Order – created as a result of the
    Order’s suppression in 1773 – under the name of Brother Augustin von Lange.)
    Secreted out of Europe through the Vatican’s Ratlines, these murderers
    escaped their rightful punishment as war criminals who, during the Jesuit Crusade in
    Europe and Russia, killed millions of Russian Orthodox People and Jewish People
    pursuant to the Jesuits’ evil Council of Trent, which, after condemning freedom of
    conscience and freedom of the press, concluded with these words:
    “Accursed be all heretics. ACCURSED!! ACCURSED!!”
    Lastly, President Kennedy began to end the Vatican’s hoax known as “the
    Cold War,” the American CIA and Russian KGB having secretly worked together
    since World War II. He also began to end that Jesuit Inquisition in Vietnam, as its
    future highpoint would be “Operation Phoenix,” the CIA mass-murder of 60,000
    Vietnamese, “in cold blood” according to its Director, William E. Colby. The
    President interfering with Rome’s Holy Office of the Inquisition could not be
    tolerated! Millions of “infidel” Buddhists were to be exterminated, the Pope’s
    International Drug Trade would explode, American patriotism and liberty would
    further be destroyed and Vietnam would be reunited under Ho Chi Minh – another
    communist military dictator loyal to the Pope – like Stalin, like Chairman Mao, like
    Castro, like George H. W. Bush and son. Waged under the guise of “fighting
    godless communism,” Cardinal Spellman championed America’s most disastrous
    conflict known as “Spelly’s War” overseen by Spelly’s General, the Roman
    Catholic and CFR member, William C. Westmoreland. (Remember, according to
    Col. L. Fletcher Prouty in his JFK, the forced movement of over 600,000 Roman
    Catholics on U.S. Navy transport vessels from North Vietnam into South Vietnam
    was “one of the root causes of the Vietnam War.” The arch-Catholic Secretary of the
    Navy responsible for implementing that Jesuit-agitation was the Supreme Knight
    of the Knights of Columbus, Francis P. Matthews. Knight Matthew’s Master was
    America’s “Military Vicar,” Francis Cardinal Spellman. Later, Spellman made
    several visits to the war-front calling the American troops “the soldiers of Christ,”
    fighting the Pope’s Crusade against “godless Jew Communism”!) The outcome was
    58,000 dead, 130,000 post-war suicides and a 220 billion dollar debt to the Jesuits’
    Federal Reserve Bank. All these acts of President Kennedy were proper assertions
    of national sovereignty and therefore infringed on the Pope’s Temporal Power. As
    the “infallible” Vicar of Christ and thus, “the Theocratic Universal Monarch of
    the World,” the Pope, through the religious, political and financial power of the
    Jesuit Order, fully intended, then and now, to ultimately rule all nations through his
    loyal kings and dictators..

  205. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 12:55 pm #

    This is a good one Met, there’s an extended excerpt of it somewhere, but I can’t remember where I’ve seen it.

  206. welles December 27, 2011 at 1:00 pm #

    this kunstler guy’s just a bloody waste of time, though sometimes humorous and the turn of a phrase.
    when’s it all going to come tumbling down jimbo?
    much more interesting to spectate as the leverpullers manage to keep things running year after year…
    much more entertaining i must say.
    peace boffos

  207. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 1:01 pm #

    The course of most of the conversations on CFN:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyWsFfd9pqE
    ABSALOM

  208. horseoutside December 27, 2011 at 1:07 pm #

    it is a kunstler tradition.
    get with the program, douche!
    two hundred and FIRST!!!!

  209. DeeJones December 27, 2011 at 1:11 pm #

    “Pretty sure Dee was being sarcastic in her answer to me – naming a NEGATIVE about high US immigration (depression of wages for US citizens), but phrasing it sarcastically like it was a positive.
    Either that, or Dee’s H-I-B answer is a simple variant on “immigrants for US economic growth,” -asoka.’s favorite.”
    Um, either you are stoopid….I don’t see how you think my answer was being ‘sarcastic’. I was just telling it as I see it. What other reason would there be for increased immigration? I really don’t see the ‘positive’, so enlighten us, eh?
    And I don’t support the h1b visa either, I know too many that lost good jobs in sillycone vally to H1B visa imports.
    So, I guess you are just stoopid.
    “40 years ago the living wage froze in this country. What workers no longer earned in wages was lent to them in credit, so they could cope with the fact that an advancing standard of living (the American Dream) was no longer possible. People consumed their way to the nightmare scenario we are in now.” ABS.
    This is something that I have pointed out here over & over. But know one pays any attention.
    Whats that saying about History? Gonna repeat it over & over & over……
    ;[

  210. greyghost05 December 27, 2011 at 1:42 pm #

    How come this air thief is still breathing and continuing his twisted mission ?
    A T W E P sanction should be flying under the radar to bring closure to this representitive of the BORG.

  211. greyghost05 December 27, 2011 at 1:59 pm #

    Julie, I live just across the border in Ottawa Lake, MI. Toledo is the largest and closest metro area. After that it’s 38 miles north to Ann Arbor or 55 miles northeast to Detroit (where the weak are killed and eaten!).
    Tax’s here aren’t too bad. I’m retired and will now have to pay on my pension thanks to our new republican overlord.
    The well water here is mixed with iron and calcium. You get rust stains in the sink and a white ring around the faucets. But it tastes good and has no smell. West of me and going both north and south the water has sulfur and the rotten egg smell.

  212. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 2:17 pm #

    Meanwhile millions of Christians were put to death by Communist Goons, largely Jewish, in Russia and Eastern Europe.
    The world owes a debt of gratitude to Mordecai Vanunu, as Israeli who told the World that Israel has a large cache of nuclear weapons.

  213. Widespreadpanic7 December 27, 2011 at 2:17 pm #

    Hey OzoneP it looks like that bar in Winsted where we saw you play last July is closed down. Ya, we drove by today, windows papered over, sign torn down, parking lot empty. That’s some pretty good clues right there that something is amiss. Used to be that package stores and bars were recession proof. That no longer seems to be the case. Or maybe it was poor management, who knows?
    —WSP7

  214. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 2:19 pm #

    You see Dee? Your bad attitude gets in the way of clear communication. And then you make it worse by coping an attitude on top of that and calling him “stoopid”. You need to purify your heart.

  215. Widespreadpanic7 December 27, 2011 at 2:22 pm #

    Hey Vlad there were some Jews in the Soviet nomenclature but they were a small minority, about commensurate in percentage with the Jewish population in Russia at the time. The NKVD dynamited Synagogues just as frequently as they dynamited Orthodox & Baptist churches.
    –WSP7

  216. J Lee December 27, 2011 at 2:28 pm #

    Fifty-fourth!

  217. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 2:31 pm #

    All true. You say it’s all due to nurture/environment/culture. I say it’s due to both these and genetics. What proportion of each and how they interact is the question – and a difficult one in most cases.
    Are you teaching your kids violin? You think that the Russians are better than the Japanese and the Suzuki method? Can you explain?
    Afficionados of Classical speak well of the East Asians and their technical proficiency. But often the Spirit and the Joy are absent. Seizi Ozawa, the Conductor of the Boston Syphony was famous for jumping up and down trying to be ecstatic.
    YoYo Ma has overcome his cultural/genetic barriers and expresses the Joy of the Great Musician.
    Both Zen and Taoism emphasized individuality and the breaking of social convention. This is something that East Asians need to attain the higher life. But it was always understood that the individual has already been well socialized a la Confucian precepts. They weren’t interested in creating Bohemians, Beat Zens, or Alan Watts types – or coddling them. This confusion between transcendental spontaneity and the poor impulse control of the libertine is an old one – and only got worse when the Dharma came West. It is Wilber’s pre/trans problem in a nutshell.

  218. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 2:41 pm #

    Nope. The Leaderhsip of the Communist Movements in Russia and Eastern Europe was upwards of 70%. They may have persecuted Orthodox Jews too but they certainly killed millions of Christians – focusing on priests and bishops in particular.
    Read Solzhenitsyn’s Book about the Jewish role Russian History when it gets translated. It has faced massive resistance in the Jewish controlled published industry in the West. But it will get thru via internet publishing. Watch for it. I’ll let you know when I find out.
    Even after Stalin broke the Jewish death grip on power, they stayed strong in some areas such as the Secret Police and Gulags.

  219. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 2:51 pm #

    The Abos have IQ’s of around 60 – far lower than even the Negro IQ of 70. The Bushmen of the Kalahari have an IQ of about 60 as well.
    The Abos also hate alot of Homo Erectus characteristics. They probably interbred with them and lower their IQ thereby.
    The visual part of their brain is larger than our’s and they are said to be very observant. A valuable asset in finding one’s way thru the trackless waste. Had a Psych Prof who talked about that but said they weren’t superior in other ways – understatement of the year. It all fits the pattern: say only positive things about non-Whites and never anything negative. Say only negative things about Whites and never anything positive. If you can’t say anything positive about minorities – lie or say nothing. If you can’t say anything negative about Whites, lie or say something positive about non-Whites.
    Btw, Negroes are a young race. The original African emmigrants were probably an intermediary type like modern Somalis or Ethiopians. We used to assume that these peoples were a mixture of Blacks and Arabs. But they may in fact have been the originals. Of course, modern man may have evolved outside of Africa – the different races evolving from different races of Homo Erectus. Or both things happened. In any case, Whites and Aians have Neanderthal genes and Africans don’t. That has been established.

  220. ront December 27, 2011 at 2:55 pm #

    A friend sent me this. I thought some participants here would appreciate it.
    ****
    It’s the frontpiece to “Bloodmoney,” the latest from my favorite writer, David Ignatius. It’s what Pashtun tribesman said to Viscount John Morley, British State Secretary for India, 1905-1910: ‘First, you push on your territories, where you have no busines to be, and where you had promised not to go; secondly, your intrusion provokes resentment, and resentment means resistance. Thirdly, you instantly cry out that the people are rebellious and their act is rebellion…Forthly, you send out a force to stamp out rebellion; and fifthly, having spread bloodshed, confusion and anarchy, you declare with your hands uplifted to the heavens that moral reasons forced you to stay; for if you were to leave, this territory would be left in a condition which no civilized power could contemplate with equanimity or with composure.” Sound familiar?

  221. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 2:59 pm #

    Meant to say Abos have alot of Homo Erectus characteristics.
    I’m so filled with hate that I can’t even say have but have to have hate instead.

  222. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 3:06 pm #

    Is he the Jewish Guy who became a Sufi? That’s a good thing since the Jewish Religion has been so compromised by political and social concerns. Mainstream Judaism is so this worldly that the people are denied the consolations of life after death and a personal relationship with God. A broad statement I know, but a true one on that level.
    It’s not for no reason that so many Jews went East in their quest. Sure they could go Orthodox, but what a terrible transformation that is. Or they could get into the Kabbalah, but wait till they read the Zohar etc. The darkness of ethnic hatred is not left behind even there. I was amazed when I found out and remain so.

  223. Eleuthero December 27, 2011 at 3:30 pm #

    You’re absolutely correct Vlad that in Sweden it’s a matriarchy AND the imported Muslims commit an incredibly disproportionate percentage of the rapes. The same is true in Holland or any other European country where anyone would care to look up the stats.
    I say this … I *will* come to your side of the argument when the phony egalitarians choose to ignore OVERWHELMING DATA. Those same phonies also will not deal with the subject of Islamic hatred of “infidels” (i.e., people who are not Muslim).
    The liberals on this site are BORING because their views are like a recitation of every plank of the DNC’s position on everything. Why don’t they just hold hands and sing “Kumbaya”? Seriously … any position that is NOT data driven is garbage.
    You’re also right about “…Dragon Tattoo”. I read the book (but will never get the sequels) because it’s a sop to radical feminism and it’s ridiculous … like these TV shows where hot babes are cryptographers and such. In real life, women in the sciences are as rare as the Spotted Owl. In California, middle-aged women think that New Age “thinking” is a substitute for education and discernment.
    E.

  224. anti soak December 27, 2011 at 3:36 pm #

    ‘Ditto for national parks.’
    Actually the illegals are ruining the parks with their pot farms, guns, fires.

  225. anti soak December 27, 2011 at 3:43 pm #

    WTF yrself…
    1…I am not a ‘conservative’
    2…Yes of heard of JMC
    Have you ever heard of the meeropols?
    Sons of Ethel and Julius.
    ‘Ironically, if there was any government that staged show trials for political ends, it was the government for which the Rosenbergs gave up their lives, that of the former Soviet Union.’
    ‘A letter to the The Rosenberg Letters in 1994. Robert Meeropol is a lecturer and creator of the Rosenberg Fund for Children
    In 2003 Pete Seeger was on the Advisory Board of the Rosenberg Fund for Children.
    They help Mumias spawn.’
    ‘brothers are totally unconcerned over the impact on America
    of the left’s defense of the indefensible
    nor of the American troops killed in Korea because of what their parents did.
    ‘At the end of the blurb called case overview they admit mom and dad were spys
    But they only admit the truth at the bottom of the page
    June 19, 2003 in New York City, on the 50th anniversary of the executions, with Harry Belafonte, Tovah Feldshuh, Peter Yarrow, Bill T. Jones, Holly Near and Ronnie Gilbert, Janiece Thompson, Suheir Hammad, Martín Espada and the Camp Kinderland Chorus.
    During the trial, the government said the Rosenbergs had asked Ethel’s brother, David Greenglass, who worked as a machinist in the atomic bomb program at Los Alamos, N.M., to provide them with information and diagrams of the bomb.
    David’s wife, Ruth Greenglass, testified at trial that in 1945 Ethel Rosenberg had typed her brother David’s notes. David corroborated that story, which became significant evidence against Ethel.
    In 1996, the RFC Board started thinking about creating a dramatic program to tell our story.
    We wanted to honor Ethel and Julius’ legacy from the past,
    to celebrate the courage of families who continue to resist today, and to express our hopes for the future.
    We wanted to use the words of those families and tie those words together with the music and the poetry inspired by the movements for social change around the world. We wanted to embrace Ethel and Julius’ words, and Michael and Robby’s legacy in the context of today’s struggles, today’s children.
    I wrote CELEBRATE THE CHILDREN OF RESISTANCE with help from Robby and our friend Martín Espada. Material for the script was compiled from The Rosenberg Letters edited by Michael Meeropol’
    ‘Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were executed 55 years ago, on June 19, 1953. But last week, they were back in the headlines when Morton Sobell, the co-defendant in their famous espionage trial, finally admitted that he and his friend, Julius, had both been Soviet agents.
    It was a stunning admission; Sobell, now 91 years old, had adamantly maintained his innocence for more than half a century. After his comments were published, even the Rosenbergs’ children, Robert and Michael Meeropol, were left with little hope to hang on to — and this week, in comments unlike any they’ve made previously, the brothers acknowledged having reached the difficult conclusion that their father was, indeed, a spy. “I don’t have any reason to doubt Morty,” Michael Meeropol told Sam Roberts of the New York Times.’
    Mike Meerolpol carries on the family tradition.
    His folks help kill americans in the KW and he helps Mumias spawn.
    [mumia was a sperm donor ya know].

  226. anti soak December 27, 2011 at 3:44 pm #

    Asoka needs an audience.
    Asoka didnt admit ‘peak’ anything.

  227. anti soak December 27, 2011 at 3:49 pm #

    Really?
    this is what you posted and what I responded to:
    ‘Please stop posting about it every week.’

  228. anti soak December 27, 2011 at 3:52 pm #

    In answer to yr question…
    I get it from asokas post:
    ‘Please stop posting about it every week.’
    Hate crimne laws
    and in Euroville….speech crime laws.
    Since when does Asoka get to tell someone here to shut up?
    Nobody made him King.
    See …’THE NEW THOUGHT POLICE’
    Tammy Bruce.

  229. anti soak December 27, 2011 at 3:58 pm #

    ‘I offered to never post again on open borders, if you never again posted on racist organizations like FAIR and NumbersUSA. You declined the offer.’
    Again, who made you King?
    P2C can say whatever he pleases here!

  230. anti soak December 27, 2011 at 4:02 pm #

    from unamusement aprk..in case ya missed my post….
    I spent 6 months living in the UK in 2011. Even then, I thought their laws were over the top, but so did many of the 20-somethings I met. In the same year, they released the two boys who brutally murdered and sodomized a toddler while arresting a grade schooler for saying ‘stupid paki’ after he was pulled out of a fight with a Pakistani. It always stuck in my mind the juxtaposition of what was criminal. The college kids cringed at the thought of a fellow student being one of those murderers, but they also were extremely careful not to speak out against ‘asylum seekers’ for fear of trouble with the law and school. Their political leaders are completely divorced from mainstream values. “Enoch was Right” should be a street art propaganda theme.
    Sadly, this is somewhat present in the US where people are jailed for spanking their kids or ticketed for not wearing a helmet while riding a bike while a rapist or murderer can plea down a crime to get less than 10 years in jail. I doubt it will get as extreme, as the problem with the UK (and Europe) has always been the heavy Marxism-Socialism influence. Yes we have it here in academia, but nowhere near as ferocious or organized as in Europe. Plus, we have rednecks. The difference with America thankfully is the federal set up and division of powers. The difference between Massachusetts and Texas is large enough to almost count as different nations.

  231. metuselah December 27, 2011 at 4:12 pm #

    That reminds me:
    Peggy Lee: Is That All There Is? – YouTube
    http://goo.gl/GseB
    Great song, great delivery.

  232. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 5:04 pm #

    E rushed over to Vlad’s freshly baked turd, took a whiff and wrote:
    You’re absolutely correct Vlad that in Sweden it’s a matriarchy AND the imported Muslims commit an incredibly disproportionate percentage of the rapes. The same is true in Holland or any other European country where anyone would care to look up the stats.
    =================================
    Ok, so Sweden is a matriarchy, you guys are bickering about the accuracy of a fuking movie? Then you make a broad leap to a racist pronunciation about Muslims? Incongruent losers!
    Eleuthero, why don’t you cite your sources, instead of suggesting others embark on a wild Google goose chase to support your view for you? That’s generally the way people interested in exchanging ideas who visit this site do it. None of the truly DISCERNING readers here cherry pick facts to support their perspective, and then keep them hidden, and that’s only about 3-4 people from what I’ve observed.
    You can dredge up support for any bullshit “theory” fathomable on the internet, which will likely be laden with only MISLEADING EXTRAPOLATIONS from spurious facts and statistics. If you are indeed a science guy as you let on, then you know that its strong INTERPOLATIVE data gathered through EXPERIMENTATION and STATISTICAL correlation which must be combined to build a solid foundation that qualifies as EVIDENCE for a scientific theory.
    You are nothing more than a calculator; a mindless TOOL; A pathetic numbers nerd who’s NEVER done any real theory building in his life.
    As a last resort, you try to lump your competitors into the broad category of Liberalism so you can avoid any real challenge to your mundane thoughts regarding social issues. Last week I cut your legs off and beat ya half to death with’em, and it’s clear you’re still lickin’ your wounds. You’re a fraud, E. Stop lettin’ Vlad poo on your chest.
    =========================================
    E wrote:
    I say this … I *will* come to your side of the argument when the phony egalitarians choose to ignore OVERWHELMING DATA. Those same phonies also will not deal with the subject of Islamic hatred of “infidels” (i.e., people who are not Muslim).
    ===========================================
    Another OVERWHELMING OVER-GENERALIZATION which one could make about any in-group/out-group conflict one can name. You are a sad lonely man and doubtable have the rich intellectual and social life you claim to have. You talk shit about people like Vlad who outpost every other member of this forum for never taking a break, then you instigate his puerile intellect by agreeing with the amalgam of nonsensical points he fails to make. Hypocrisy is a bitch and Eleuthero is his name.
    ====================================
    E wrote:
    The liberals on this site are BORING because their views are like a recitation of every plank of the DNC’s position on everything. Why don’t they just hold hands and sing “Kumbaya”? Seriously … any position that is NOT data driven is garbage.
    =====================================
    Your positions are mostly garbage because their ONLY driven by statistics, not theory. Here you go ass monkey; here’s a link to a REAL scientist’s website. Here’s just one of the articles where he talks about the nuances of the scientific method. He will gladly have any statistical and generally scientific conversation with you you can think of. And if you think you can get away with using the default retort of “bleeding heart Liberal” to him, you’ve got another thing comin’. Good luck, asshole.
    http://www.arachnoid.com/theory/index.html
    ABSALOM

  233. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 5:10 pm #

    Good tune!
    Back atcha:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCUmSijiWxA
    ABSALOM

  234. metuselah December 27, 2011 at 5:55 pm #

    The Wandering Soul – Gary Atkinson – YouTube
    http://goo.gl/KmNdl

  235. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 6:18 pm #

    You gotta be Jewish. They are the kings of scatalogical “humor”, barf jokes, – and all things of this nature.

  236. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 6:19 pm #

    If Muslims commit 90 or 95 percent of the rapes in Sweden, how much “interpretation” does one need? You’re just trying to obfuscate simple truths you don’t like.

  237. AMR December 27, 2011 at 6:30 pm #

    The Calvinists I’ve known have been a very different lot from the worldly ones you described. My Calvinist acquaintances have generally thought more in terms of sticks than carrots, putting a scary emphasis on the justness of eternal hellfire for the unbelieving and heavenly reward for the elect. Their stance as self-declared members of the elect is less one of their deserving earthly rewards than of sneering arrogance towards the supermajority whom they declare damned. As a way of explaining why the hell one ought to pray or not be a psychopath since everything is predestined from time immemorial, they talk a lot about prayer and especially works being Holy Ghost-inspired and evidence of election, the latter point allowing them to be rubbed in the face of nonbelievers. All the same, all of humanity is totally depraved, enslaved by the sinful nature, and consequently redeemable only by totally undeserved grace.
    If I were still hanging out with Calvinists the cognitive dissonance would make my head explode, and I would be walking around in undisguised contempt at their arrogance. I pretty much got away from these people and took refuge in the Catholic Church in college because they were crazy and their theology was patently immoral. My main Calvinist contact in college, the head of a conservative Anglican student organization-cum-think tank that was chronically entangled with bog-standard secular GOP politics, finally scared off during one of the Friday night salons that he hosted at his house, which doubled as his organization’s headquarters, when he offered to take me upstairs and summarily baptize me in his bathtub. Otherwise, he told me, “your soul is in jeopardy.” This guy had an unsettling John Brown zeal in his eyes, and some of his associates were creepy sourpusses. These people were theocratic throwbacks who made Andrew Carnegie and Billy Graham look avant garde.
    The bathtub baptism offer was the moment at which I committed to go through with RCIA after months of dithering. I truly appreciated the sobriety and deliberation of Catholic confirmation classes and the fact that a Catholic priest could be defrocked for performing summary baptisms absent the freely given consent and likely imminent death of the recipient.
    The bathtub baptist was a cradle Catholic who had overwhelmingly positive things to say about the Catholic Church, although he had left it in part because he believed he had a call to ministry but also wanted to get married. I sympathize with his thinking in that regard, but he obviously had other compelling reasons to leave it on account of his disavowing much of its most fundamental theology and general worldview. What amazed me was that he, like many other sola fide zealots, claimed to have 100% common cause with the Catholic Church, even on matters of theology.
    Calvinists say the darnedest things.

  238. dale December 27, 2011 at 6:33 pm #

    Um, excuse me but the best indicator of future behavoir is past and present behavior – and Black Behavior has been getting worse for decades.
    —————————————-
    Well…doubling down on that bit of brilliant nonsense, you have no reason to whimper and whine when I point out that fascists inevitably must find more and worse enemies. Enemies which simple “must” be dealt with through the use of murder and genocide. That has been the MO of every fascist government which ever came to power, from Mussolini to Hussein, including the runt Franco.

  239. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 6:50 pm #

    You wish

  240. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 6:59 pm #

    Vlad, using your vapid logic one could argue that because Eurasians (various shades of white) are responsible for 90-95% of all the well organized death and destruction in history, regardless of their IQ averages, that they are too dangerous of a race to allow to exist. You would never have the balls to apply that logic to us whitey’s, not even if you fake like your are.
    Next, dumb fuck, I’d need to know from where said stats were acquired, by whom, through what type of measurement methods, and so on. You really are every bit as stupid as you sound. You give yourself away at every turn. keep goin’, freak.

  241. AMR December 27, 2011 at 7:09 pm #

    You hit on some of the reasons that I’m impressed with Glenn Beck. Beck goes batshit pretty often, but on the one occasion when I watched his show a few months ago (my grandmother pretty much stuck to CNN, and I rarely watch TV on my own), my immediate reaction was, “Wow, this guy is an American Pim Fortuyn, and that’s exactly what we need.” One of his main arguments that night was that European leftists were being foolhardy by entering into alliances of convenience with Islamists whose goals included establishing a theocracy that would destroy the pluralism and liberties that the leftists held dear.
    Beck, like Fortuyn, was effectively to the left of establishment leftists by actually defending basic principles of pluralism and tolerance that the leftists had abandoned. He took on the Westboro Baptist Church, declaring it beyond the pale and insisting that an open society had a duty to treat Westboro and its ilk as pariahs. Islamist theocrats, he argued, must be treated in the same fashion, but were getting a pass, to the ultimate detriment of their fair-weather leftist allies.
    Another area where Beck made more sense than the competition was on Middle Eastern geopolitics. He didn’t wow me with his carrying on about the worldwide caliphate conspiracy (good luck getting Persians and Arabs, Sunnis and Shiites, to work together without a common infidel enemy; they can hardly stop bickering even with Crusaders in their backyards), but he had a certain Realpolitik common sense that is totally lacking among the neocon chickenhawks who dominate GOP foreign and military policy, and lately Democratic policy, too. His recurrent point was that our supposed allies in the Middle East included a lot of very unsavory theocratic characters, any of them likely to turn on us in the future. What a crazy thing to expect of nice chaps like, oh, Saddam Hussein or Osama bin Laden.
    If the only person willing to publicly say these things is a teary-eyed histrionic with a chalkboard, goofy strategic maps and a simplistic, conspiratorial understanding of our enemies, I’ll take it. Beck can be nuts, but he isn’t as arrogant, ignorant, foolish or reckless as the chickenhawk armchair generals who currently make our foreign and military policy. Someone with an audience needs to offer that sort of reality check.

  242. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 7:18 pm #

    Now that’s a point worth exploring. Good one.

  243. asoka. December 27, 2011 at 8:09 pm #

    antisoak, a polite request and telling someone to shut up are very different.
    I can politely request that ProCon not post on immigration every week. ProCon can, out of courtesy, comply with the request. Can those two things coexist in your mind? No force, no threat, no “liberal” thought control is involved in a polite request.
    Procon can just as easily decide to ignore my request, because no one is ordering him to shut up, no one is threatening him if he doesn’t shut up. You are way over the top in your reaction, antisoak. He has the right to post whatever he wants. And I have the right to ask him to reconsider his obsessive posts and not post on immigration every week. Everyone’s freedom is being respected.

  244. ksat December 27, 2011 at 8:11 pm #

    Amazing how the devious Obama was able to, again, fool the people into believing that he is helping them. The latest scam is the payroll tax holiday extension, which the stupid Repubs bought into. SS is already is the red,the trust fund has been stolen, & most boomers are not yet even receiving it. The something for nothing culture has taken over & we are finished as a nation. My generation & yours, the boomers, will go down as, perhaps, the worst, most self-centered in history. By the payroll holiday extension, which has not & will not help the economy much, we are saying that we refuse to even pay for our own retirements. Gens X&Y should take notice & refuse to enslave themselves to pay FICA taxes when it is their turn to take over – if we ever get to that point as one nation.

  245. asoka. December 27, 2011 at 8:43 pm #

    SS is already is the red
    Really? Social security is solvent and everyone who qualifies is receiving their checks because there is money. You have been scammed by right wing media, because social security is not in any kind of crisis.
    Social Security is solvent until 2038 (Source: CBO), and if the rich paid on all their income (not just the first $106,000) like the middle class does, social security would be solvent forever.
    Contrary to popular belief, Social Security taxes are not deposited into the Social Security trust funds … Along with many other forms of revenues, these Social Security taxes become part of the government’s operating cash pool, or what is more commonly referred to as the U.S. treasury. In effect, once these taxes are received, they become indistinguishable from other monies the government takes in.
    But the Social Security revenues are accounted for separately through the issuance of federal securities to the Social Security trust funds … but the trust funds themselves do not receive or hold money. They are simply accounts.
    By the end of last year, those securities, or bonds, amounted to $2.6 trillion,

  246. ctemple December 27, 2011 at 9:58 pm #

    Now you want everyone to provide some sort of scientific proof of their opinion before expressing it on here? It’s been my experience that hardly anyone ever wins an argument on CFN blog.
    Some arguments seem more or less self explanatory, like societies that existed for hundreds of years without mass immigration now can’t get along without it, (Europe).
    Or that religion is a defining thing about culture and is one of the things that binds it together, try telling that to some atheist, what you’ll get is the usual often antectodal evidence of how abusive some Christian was to them at some anterior point.
    The point being is, people are here to express an opinion, hopefully be convincing, not bore everybody out of their skulls with cut and paste or articles to look at. Or scientific jargon so arcane that harldy anybody knows what the fuck they’re talking about.
    And you’re name calling two of the more articulate people on here, Euluthero and Vlad Kranz.

  247. charliefoxtrot December 27, 2011 at 10:17 pm #

    articulate??! vlad KRANTZ??? fer fuck s sake, spewing recycled, rehashed, specious, racist ignorance does NOT qualify as urbane eloquence…if you re just trying to get a rise outta somebody; consider the pot stirred- i sincerely hope you aint fooled by the fear and ignorance masquerading as a principled stand…sheesh!

  248. asoka. December 27, 2011 at 10:18 pm #

    Yo, ctemple, I am an atheist here and this is what I say: religion is a defining thing about culture and is one of the things that binds it together (operative word being “bind”)
    Gordon Allport also stated (in 1960) that religion fulfills a human need for a psychology of “becoming,” to facilitate psychological growth and discovery of our human potential. Allport says this “can best be discovered by looking within ourselves.”
    None of which requires a “God” … religion does not need any kind of god. Atheistic religions like Buddhism and Taoism and Jainism do just fine without hypothesizing a God.

  249. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 10:28 pm #

    CTEMPLE:
    Now you want everyone to provide some sort of scientific proof of their opinion before expressing it on here?
    ================================================
    Ridiculous. You’re just talkin’ sideways. If someone is going to make a claim for which they reference some sort of “evidence” or supporting platform, it only makes sense that they offer it for consideration. The discussion can stay focused this way, if people consider the material in it’s original form and then debate specifics some progress might be made;otherwise, dick heads like you only ever offer never ending responses that abandon the original topic altogether.
    Don’t twist words, moron.
    ABSALOM

  250. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 10:48 pm #

    You said it.

  251. jim e December 27, 2011 at 10:54 pm #

    “I told althea I was feeling lost, lacking in some direction.
    Althea told me upon scrutiny that my back might need protection.
    I told althea that treachery was tearing me limb from limb.
    Althea told me better cool down boy, settle back, easy jim.”
    “There are things you can replace, and others you cannot.
    The time has come to weigh those things.
    This space is getting hot, you know this space is getting hot.”
    The Strait of Hormuz is not straight.
    Yashua was a Pices.

  252. progress2conserve December 27, 2011 at 11:05 pm #

    “This is something that I have pointed out here over & over. But know one pays any attention.”
    -dee-
    You’ve got that right, Dee.
    The whole place has gone stoopid this week.
    I’m looking for POSITIVES about immigration that don’t involve:
    1. Economic growth
    2. Moral Platitudes
    3. Ethnic dining and ethnic entertainment
    I don’t consider wage stagnation due to H1B immigration to be a POSITIVE – I consider it a NEGATIVE. Apparently the difference in a positive and a negative is too nuanced for you and WageL, or something.
    And it’s not worth the effort to explain it.
    To hell with all of this.

  253. wagelaborer December 27, 2011 at 11:07 pm #

    Again you are mixing up the interests of the 1% with the interests of the 99%.
    Depressing the wages of US citizens is NOT a negative to the 1%, it is their goal.
    Wages have decreased since the 70s, while the wealth of the 1% has increased.
    The plan is to lower the wages of US citizens until we are “competitive” with the lowest paid workers in the world.
    I don’t understand why you can’t understand this.

  254. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 11:12 pm #

    He’s an interesting character – he offends everyone some of the time. But ultimately he’s with the Christian Zionists in their worship of Israel as the Incarnate God – not Christ. He has been called an “anti-semite” (utterly meaningless word) because he hasn’t towed the line perfectly like say John Hagee. But it doesn’t change his basically mad foreign policy belief – which make him an ally of the sinister Neo Cons.

  255. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 11:18 pm #

    Nonsense? You don’t belief in the power of habit? Guess you don’t believe in karma either. Some Buddhist.
    I don’t say change is impossible – especialy for an individual. But it is difficult. That you underestimate the difficulty just says that you haven’t changed yourself.

  256. wagelaborer December 27, 2011 at 11:19 pm #

    I guess you never noticed that antisoak is a john bircher, through and through.
    His astounding claims come from the fringe right, and are not grounded to reality.
    You are right that the Founding Fathers were liberals and were trying to establish a country in which laws and not men, ruled.
    It’s not working out so well for them. Or us.

  257. charliefoxtrot December 27, 2011 at 11:23 pm #

    did anyone occupy wal-mart this week? it sure seems they are the poster children for the inequality- and i bet ol’ sam is rolling in his grave- wasn t he all for “buy american”?

  258. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 11:25 pm #

    Good point. I can only say that the more intelligent the person or race, the more capacity it has for good OR evil. Power or Capacity are in themselves, neutral. When development is healthy, morality keeps pace with power, intelligence, and technology. Unfortuantely there are the psychopaths and the mad scientist types whose IQ is far ahead of their morality – if it exists at all. And then there are true believers like Wage who substitute insande ideologies for religion. Political Correctness is in itself a Cult with many true believers who reject out of hand any suggestion that all races may not be equal. You seem to be in this category. You would love to torture people like me to death. You are one twisted sister.

  259. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 11:34 pm #

    Liberals? Huh? Do you realize that the meaning of words sometimes change over time? Liberals of the 1950’s would be consider far right Conservatives now. And the Founding Fathers would be considered – correctly – as Fasicsts.

  260. k-dog December 27, 2011 at 11:36 pm #

    The commodification of labor in unrestrained global corporate capitalism. Corporations lobby for employment policies which give them the lowest cost labor. People don’t matter in their equation. Calls to fill an imaginary labor shortage by importing new citizens never stop even in the face of layoffs and massive unemployment. Americans it seems are not educated enough, they tend to be overqualified or uneducated depending on current corporate need.
    Current priorities do not serve man. Current priorities are immoral and unsustainable. If priorities do not change our people will perish. In the race to the bottom we may be the first to go.

  261. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 11:38 pm #

    That is the Communist Goal – to level the world. Except for the Party Bosses who will live in luxury beyond the dreams of avarice. And many of them will turn out to be the same Multi-Billionaires that we have now – like Soros. Fooling people like you is like taking candy from a baby.

  262. charliefoxtrot December 27, 2011 at 11:45 pm #

    no offense, but that isn t their fault…not saying their ideals were perfect by any stretch; but We The People have shirked our responsibilities ever since…i mean it s no secret that the elites have been raping our planet & our people since long before 1776…! i just hope it doesn t take too many kids getting killed while screaming in english to open the soldier s minds to the reality they will be trying to enforce

  263. Solar Guy December 27, 2011 at 11:45 pm #

    Had ~100 wonderful people over for our Christmas Eve Party and it was Amazing! Then my Dad and I installed a Solar System on my gorgeous $5k house on Christmas Day! Changing the World one panel at a time…
    Cheers ClusterFuckers!

  264. ABSALOM December 27, 2011 at 11:46 pm #

    AT no point have I ever argued that all races are equal.NEVER.
    In fact, you big phony, that very idea is ANTITHETICAL to Evolutionary Theory. Further, the word Evolution is diametric in meaning to the word Egalitarian. You and your pet Blumpkin, E, have invented this Egalitarian position to suit your own purposes. You’re arguing against yourself, Vlad; you’re embarrassing yourself too.
    ===========================================
    You would love to torture people like me to death.
    ============================================
    Every once in awhile you come close to opening our eyes, don’tcha? I’m gonna git ya boy.
    ABSALOM

  265. Vlad Krandz December 27, 2011 at 11:51 pm #

    Yes, Religion means to bind. So bind to what if there is no God? Likewise, Yoga means Union or to Yoke. But to what? Buddhists substitute the Concept of Void for God and pray to the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas instead of praying to God or gods.

  266. IxNoMor December 27, 2011 at 11:51 pm #

    OMFG! How did the discussion on this site, this week, degenerate so rapidly and vapidly, into racism and religious nonsense? Does anyone even remember the primary topic material? I do – ethereal, unlimited, digital-press, fiat, bailout money at 0% interest to the *GLOBAL* banksters. I actually saw a *bullet* on Bloomberg yesterday about Brazil printing up 600 million reais for some bank/bailout (WTF?!?)…
    And now, we have someone talking about the positive spin from Glenn Beck? Yes, I know, some poasters here are old-timers, and some are new (Absolom/dale – how many aliases/sock puppets do these guys employ. Aside – I find Absolom to be Tsa-Tsa on meds, with a new bent towards Asokan/Vlad psychosis). And now P2C is saying the *SAME EXACT THINGS* Q used to (in addition to his tired-out immigration trolls).
    I poasted some time back (4 months?) thinking many of the aliases here were sock puppets from the same puppet-master, but now almost *all* of them seem to be one in the same *noise* (and Eleuthero, who used to be a sane voice in the noise, now embraces the Vlad/P2C conundrum). Certain characters seem to be absorbing degenerate traits of others, or perhaps there is a serious multiple-personality here…
    Do I really need to discuss the master-debater Soker (the guy who will, and does, argue both sides of every argument)? I mean, really – 2 months ago he’s moving to the Tejas border, right alongside a river, constructing his adobe mud-hut and babbling his same-old counter-delusions. 2 months later, it’s too cold at the Tejas/Mejico border (LOL!!! rIIIght), and he’s in the Amazon Rainforest for months/years, with his best friends, juicing mangos…
    I suspect that this site’s discussion board has been taken over by *6 fig govt stalkers*. Infiltrated, to be sure. Lots of plagiarism that plays for intellect. Debunkers, agents, disinformants – take your pick.
    I think I now know what drove Tripp away. So unfortunate, but when the US Govt/Homeland Security hires literally millions upon millions to spy (on US citizens), what should we have expected? These guys have too much idle time on their hands!!!

  267. Vlad Krandz December 28, 2011 at 12:04 am #

    Now you’re talkin punk. The Absalom Race is the lowest of all.

  268. ABSALOM December 28, 2011 at 12:06 am #

    Fair enough. I did get a little carried away with the vitriol toward Vlad. It was just so fun though. But the gut check was needed. And yes I am a government infiltrator. Ya caught me, Watson. Great deductive abilities by the way.
    DONE,
    ABSALOM

  269. Vlad Krandz December 28, 2011 at 12:07 am #

    Look the whole peak oil thing has been talked to death. Now it’s time to talk about other things like how many Negroes it take to change a flourescent light bulb.

  270. Mike Moskos December 28, 2011 at 12:18 am #

    Vlad, from the research I’ve read, young black men masturbate half as much as young white men, and spend half as much time watching pornography as white men. Hypersexual blacks may be the stereotype, but it is probably not reality.

  271. anti soak December 28, 2011 at 12:22 am #

    OK, ill reply to:
    ‘His astounding claims come from the fringe right, and are not grounded to reality.’
    Ya mean like the connections from the Stalinist to the Rosenbergs?
    And from Ethels 2 kids to Mumias spawn?
    Those kind of ‘unrealities’?

  272. wagelaborer December 28, 2011 at 12:30 am #

    Um, yeah, for starters.

  273. asoka. December 28, 2011 at 12:32 am #

    Caught me, too.
    I am really a government spy being paid 6 figures to read all your comments. LOL!
    Oh, and I’m not Black, I’m not in South America. I really do believe in baby Jesus and daddy God. Never got a vasectomy. Not retired. Not living on $1,000 a month. Not a pacifist. Not green. Just spying on all of you. We have your real names and addresses and our FEMA concentration camps are almost ready. LOL!
    You got me, Ixnomor.
    Fucktard.

  274. wagelaborer December 28, 2011 at 12:33 am #

    Thank you, asoka, for bringing facts to the argument.

  275. wagelaborer December 28, 2011 at 12:39 am #

    I’m not blaming them, CFT.
    As Ben Franklin said to the concerned citizen, who asked what sort of plan they had come up with,
    “A republic, ma”m, if you can keep it”.
    We haven’t. But history is never over.
    And I am working on improving conditions on this planet.

  276. jim e December 28, 2011 at 12:41 am #

    Approximately 17 people die each year in America as a result of snake bites.
    Women hate snakes.
    Approximately 50,000 people die each year in America in automobile accidents.
    Women love cars.
    When women wear helmets while riding in cars… I will wear one while riding on my bicycle.
    A man on a multi-geared (not to be confused with a SS or fixie) bicycle is more efficient than a bird in flight.
    Oh to live in the Heart of Dixie where you can survive a winter without a fire and you can ride a bicycle in all four seasons. A land so beautiful it was named after french money.

  277. asoka. December 28, 2011 at 12:45 am #

    You’re welcome, Wage. I’m happy bring facts to the table.
    I know we don’t agree on some things, but I always appreciate your posts.
    BTW, haven’t women’s real wages (adjusted for inflation) gone up since the 70s, at least more than men’s?

  278. IxNoMor December 28, 2011 at 12:48 am #

    “Now it’s time to talk about other things like how many Negroes it take to change a flourescent light bulb.”
    Don’t you mean a diode bulb? They use the same energy as flourescents, basically, but they have advantages. They last *FOREVER*, they instantly turn on, and some of them are *DIMMABLE*.
    *INFESTED*!!! And here I am, feeding the trolls!!!
    And I must confess, or apologize, for prior troll-feedings… x.x

  279. wagelaborer December 28, 2011 at 12:48 am #

    Personally, I don’t have a dog in that fight.
    Well, I do, but I realize that it’s all bullshit. I have a 401K, because I was pressured into it, but I don’t expect it to make me rich when I retire, for pete’s sake. I’m not stupid.
    It’s time to think outside the capitalist box that we are forced by peer pressure, and occasional brutal repression, to reduce ourselves to.
    This is an interesting talk by a man who has been working on building alternative structures to vicious corporate capitalism for many years.
    http://www.commondreams.org/video/2011/12/17
    Those interested in the Rust Belt will find what Cleveland is doing to be of interest. ProCon will find his remarks on overpopulation to be of interest.
    Those concerned with peak oil will find his remarks on localization to be of interest.

  280. ak December 28, 2011 at 12:54 am #

    To illustrate how radically different are the US ‘persons’ from the inhabitants of N Korea, USA Today just published this survey of the most admired people in 2011.
    Care to guess here first without looking? Top ten men and women separately.

  281. IxNoMor December 28, 2011 at 12:56 am #

    “You got me, Ixnomor.
    Fucktard.”
    Asoka == Tsa-Tsa? Hehe.
    Was I wrong, when I watched your migration to the Tejax border 2 months ago? Was I wrong, when 2 days later you were a full-fledged Brazilian, juicing mangos?
    As I said before (months ago?), I hope your (clearcut) rainforest land hasn’t been leached, trampled to concrete, and your nearby river *SILTED*. I know not who lives there – I’d suspect no one, as it’s almost impossible now, with the MICKEY-D/BURGER KING chattle destruction…
    *INFESTED*!!! I hope they pay you 6-fig-govt-stalkaz enough. Is *6-figures* enough?!…

  282. wagelaborer December 28, 2011 at 12:57 am #

    Well, you’re better at googling then I am.
    Wages as a whole have gone down. Since women’s wages were lower than men’s in the 70s, and the wage gap has slightly decreased, I guess you could spin it that women’s wages have gone up.
    But I wouldn’t.

  283. wagelaborer December 28, 2011 at 1:02 am #

    There are 7 billion people on this planet.
    That means there are 3 1/2 billion women.
    You are confident that all of those 3 1/2 women hate snakes and love cars?
    Or are you just an idiot?

  284. IxNoMor December 28, 2011 at 1:07 am #

    “It’s time to think outside the capitalist box”
    Hehe, Alex Ansary (Outside the Box – public TV)? I was tuning into him, before he even knew what his agenda was. He got eaten alive by the capitalists/agents. Dissent is no option – it is especially discouraging that we even argue about something so obvious. Words constantly escape me now – I don’t have the *tools* of the trade, I s’pose.
    I never meant to be in that trade. I tried to do my part. I went without a vehicle for 8 years. I went without hot water for 3 years. I went without AC, and only heated to 58-60’F in the winter. None of it means anything now (*EVER*), as P2C’s exponential (immigrant) rat-breeders do 2x as much damage *NOW*, as I could do 2 decades ago…
    Time to walk around aimlessly with a cell phone (without batteries!)…

  285. IxNoMor December 28, 2011 at 1:12 am #

    “Approximately 50,000 people die each year in America in automobile accidents.”
    That’s why I like to call them (cars), “2-ton-death-metal-coffins.” If’n you hop a ride in one, you really shouldn’t be either surprised, or shocked, should you or you passengers get maimed/*DIE*.

  286. IxNoMor December 28, 2011 at 1:24 am #

    “Fair enough. I did get a little carried away with the vitriol toward Vlad. It was just so fun though. But the gut check was needed. And yes I am a government infiltrator. Ya caught me, Watson. Great deductive abilities by the way.”
    Any denials of Tsa-Tsa origins? Or meds that *cured* you, turning you into a Vlad/Soker sociopath?
    You said a few things that made sense, but most of it was *VITRIOL*. Very much Tsa-Tsa. And the other things seemed very schizo to me (maybe just me)… I mean, very Asoka/Vlad-ish…

  287. IxNoMor December 28, 2011 at 1:25 am #

    If those meds cured you, let me know the names of them – I’m always interested in *OPENING* my mind!!!

  288. jim e December 28, 2011 at 1:25 am #

    No, I am the dotted line southern dumbass, and you can fill me in with whatever you like! HAPPY NEW YEAR 2012!

  289. San Jose Mom 51 December 28, 2011 at 1:26 am #

    My kids took dance and piano from Russians. My friend swears by her kid’s Russian violin teacher.
    I think the difference is that they command the respect of their pupils and they don’t put up with a kid who doesn’t practice. I recall Anna Trebunskaya once yelling at my son, “This would never happen in Russia.”

  290. vnrwandkhb December 28, 2011 at 1:47 am #

    ????????????????NA NA???????“???”GA??????????KA???????? ??????????NA NI?????

    ??????????????????NI?????? ??????????NE?????????????????????? ???????????RU???????????????“??NI NI???????”?????NI NI WA??“????????????????????”??2?????????????????????????????NI????????????WA???? ?????????????? ??? s????????????TA“??????????????NI??”????????NI NA??????????????? ??? s?DA?

    ???????????????????????SAN SAN NA???WA RU????????????????n????????????????????GA????????

    ????????????????TA???????TA????????NI??TA?????TA GA????????NI?????????????????????NI?????????NI NA????????NI???????????????????????????????????????????????GA??? ???????????????????

  291. IxNoMor December 28, 2011 at 1:50 am #

    My kids took tap dance, violin, and mental discipline exercises from Alpha Centauris!!!
    Oh, yeah, they gunna *RULE* (my kids – not the alphas!!!)!!!
    C wut I did there? Bwahaha!

  292. Ixnei December 28, 2011 at 2:06 am #

    “ethereal, unlimited, digital-press, fiat, bailout money at 0% interest to the *GLOBAL* banksters.”
    You fucking sock puppet! I suppose you expect someone to explain to you how debt can be made into *collateralized debt obligations*?
    You are a moron, kl00bie, douche-bag fuck-wit. (not exactly what we were looking for, but *extraordinary*!!!)
    Haha, sock puppets *abound*. There is no discussion here anymore. That’s my belief – it is nothing but commoditized aggregation. I.E. *WALL OF SPAM*. 6969, do your due diligence!!!
    *INFESTED*!!!

  293. rqojantifz December 28, 2011 at 2:22 am #

    [?????????????] 20??USTR?WA????????????????????????????????GA??“????????????”???????TA??????????????????GA??????????????????????????? ???2??????TA???????????????GA????????????? ?????????????n??????????????????????????????DA?????“????????????”GA?????????“?NA????”????USTR????TA???? ??? s??????????

    ????????????????????????NI??GA MA TA GA????????????18???????WA 15???“?????????????????????????????????”??TA?

  294. jim e December 28, 2011 at 2:33 am #

    Where’s Rico!

  295. jim e December 28, 2011 at 2:53 am #

    “And I will cause hostility between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will strike your head, and you will strike his heel.” yea I’m good on the snake…” and I will go double on the cars”

  296. IxNoMor December 28, 2011 at 2:58 am #

    “I suppose you expect someone to explain to you how debt can be made into *collateralized debt obligations*?”
    I suppose you expect me to do all of your *HOMEWORK*. OK. However, I can’t explain how they make a silk purse out of a sow’s *A$$*!!!
    I’m certain some of your sock puppets can explain it to you *in detail*. If not, *regardless*.
    Things will start to sink in. Like the FEMA camps. Are they real? Is that cookery?
    What is there to fear? Hehe! Why fear? Stick your head in the sand. The DOW is certain to *grow* beyond belief! And here you didn’t vest yourself!!!
    Foolish fool, buying gold, silver and copper. And you didn’t bother with ETF’s? HAHAH! GL burying all that *copper*… No one will find it, right?
    And the biggest fool of them all, not buying into those I-Bonds. How *LUDICROUS*!!! Now it seems too late, huh (-2.7% inflation that year)? Why didn’t you buy McD’s, Cat, Micro$ – and get 3% dividends?!…
    I mean, sh!t – I eat that toxic McD’s slop morning, noon, and *NIGHT*, 24/7!!! Nothing liek a few quarter pounders, or big macz… YUMMY!!!

  297. jim e December 28, 2011 at 3:01 am #

    “Japan and China sittin’ in a tree”

  298. eljxanjgil December 28, 2011 at 3:09 am #

    ??????????????????????????SAN GA KI TA???????????????????????????????????????????????????GA?????DA??

    ??WA??????10??????????? ?????????????????????MNP?n????????????????151??NI NI???TA??????RI???KA?????????????? ?????????? ??? s?…??????? ??????????????????????NA???????????NA?21,000????????????????????GA?????????????????TA?151??NA??????????????????NI???????????????????????????????

    ??151 NI KA???? ??? s????GA??TA???????????????

    ??????????????????????· MNP??????10???????NA?

    NI??????????????NA?????????????????????????·???????GA???????????????????10????????????????GA 151??????????????????????21000????????????????DA????????????????NA???????????MNP????????????????????NI?????NI NA????????????????????????????????????????????????????????TA??????????????????????NI???????????TA??

    ????? ?????????????

  299. xhalor December 28, 2011 at 3:19 am #

    JC! M’man.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq-qBmHe4_c&feature=related

  300. jim e December 28, 2011 at 3:25 am #

    Cuttin’ us out of a lot of money.

  301. jim e December 28, 2011 at 3:30 am #

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNIyvdcLlKg

  302. xhalor December 28, 2011 at 3:44 am #

    You know what else doesn’t happen in Russia? Toilet paper. I had a Latvian boss recently. He told me that when he was in school to study computer science, he didn’t see an acutal terminal for three years. Blackboards and chalk (he is not an old man, but not particularly young). I told him that I had “visited” his country. Where I was travelling, they had cell phones but no sewers.

  303. Nathan December 28, 2011 at 3:55 am #

    Nice comments about the American Frontier closing around 100 years ago. I’m actually reading Walter Prescott Webb’s “The Great Frontier” right now, after having it recommended to me by Herrick Kimball aka The Deliberate Agrarian (http://thedeliberateagrarian.blogspot.com)
    For those not familiar with Webb or this book, it was published in 1952 and postulates that from AD 1500 to 1890 western Europe experienced a massive boom in land and resources via their newly discovered and almost uninhabited frontier lands in North and South America, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand. When the frontiers closed, e.g. reached saturation with migrants and were put under agriculture and resource extraction, this set the scene for the 20th century wars that were bigger than any before them. Webb predicted in the 50s that western civilisation would need to learn to live in contraction rather than just boom times and that this would require complete overhauls of the legal system, politics and people’s expectations and identity.
    As we stand poised on the brink of 2012, visions of apocalypse dance through my head. I hear Walmart has 2012 Mayan Calendars going for $9.99. Grab yours now!

  304. etpcanrytn December 28, 2011 at 4:22 am #

    ?????????12?1??????????????????????????2??????17???????????????????????10?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    ????????????????????

    12?40???????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????5????????????????????????

    ????????????????????? ??? s????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????n??????????(?????????????)???????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????:??????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??? s?????????????????????????????

    ??????????????????????????????????? ??? s?????????????????????????????????????????:????????????????????????????????????????????????

    ??????

    ??????????????????????????????

    ?????????????????

    ??????????????3?30???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????;??????????????????????????????????

    ???????????????????????????????????????????(????????????????????????????1???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????(????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    ??????????????????????? ???

    ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    ?????????(????:-????)?????????:nn036???

  305. xhalor December 28, 2011 at 4:44 am #

    Oh damn, I’m on the left coast. Everyone is in stasis. I was kinda hoping that some commie (small c), leftist, ABC News, uppity, NFL-franchise-buyin’ cyborg contrarist could provide me with the bleeding edge stats of toilet paper productivity in Mother Russia in the hope of sparking some…controversy. Maybe another day.
    Happy New Year Motherfuckers.

  306. bubbleheadMarc December 28, 2011 at 7:33 am #

    Speaking of both immigrants, and of how the native born Americans are supposedly resistant to education and trades training, isn’t it ironic that these DPs [displaced persons] typically either cannot speak English at all to any appreciable extent, or if they can speak broken English it is with an accent so heavy as to be nearly impenetrable. And these people are considered superior employees by the robber barons who want them permitted to move here. In other words bullshit. Immigration of the legal variety is little more than importing unemployment to keep the workers in line. And then of course we’re all expected to work for virtually no money in order to prove to prospective future employers that we’re not lazy since they won’t hire anyone who’s currently unemployed. Admittedly, there are places where I’d be the one with the bad accent, like England. Once in a bar in Gibraltar this idiotic British sailor sitting next to me at the bar informed me that I didn’t speak “English”. I was wearing a wool plaid shirt jacket with a Canadian maple leaf on it and could’ve bailed out by saying “god save the queen I’m really a Canuck”. But no, I came clean and admitted “you’re right, I speak American not English” which seemed to satisfy the little limey bastard. How could someone like T.S. Eliot, from St. Louis, end up making ludicrous statements such as “in politics a royalist, in religion an Anglo-Catholic”? And something else I forgot. I would say “an Episcopalian suffering from a terminal case of over-preciousness and a tory boot licker!” We’re all doomed. By all means lets keep importing more unemployment, after all, jobs are for suckers.

  307. asoka. December 28, 2011 at 8:34 am #

    Thanks, Wage. I’ve got a natural Boolean rhythm. 🙂

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  311. Widespreadpanic7 December 28, 2011 at 9:17 am #

    I’m wondering about the tens of millions of Americans crowded into the shopping malls in the days after Christmas. How much stuff do they need too buy? When is enough, enough? Also, where is the money coming from to pay for all this sh-t? I hear how stressed financially the ‘average American’ is, that real estate value has dropped yet again, how hard it is to find a job, but people are in the malls spending money like BubbleheadMarc on his first liberty call in 3 months in Toulon, France. It doesn’t add up.
    –WSP7

  312. Widespreadpanic7 December 28, 2011 at 9:47 am #

    BBM you’re right about TS Elliot he come across as an elitist, arrogant prick, pretty much my opinion of all the Expat writers of that era, starting with Henry James.
    –WSP7

  313. dale December 28, 2011 at 10:22 am #

    I don’t say change is impossible – especialy for an individual. But it is difficult.
    ————————————-
    As I suspected. It’s not right to judge people individually, just by groups. Ergo….by extension, if one black is a criminal then all blacks are criminals.
    Face it Vlad, when it comes to race you are completely irrational, championing ideas even you must contort yourself into a philosophical pretzel to defend.
    There is only one way to judge people, by an individual person’s prior actions, with the awareness that change is possible. In your case, you should be hoping that change is possible.

  314. dale December 28, 2011 at 10:27 am #

    Buddhists substitute the Concept of Void for God and pray to the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas instead of praying to God or gods.
    —————————————-
    This is an excellent example of your capacity to read, but not to understand. You haven’t the slightest idea what ’emptiness’ means, or any hope of that without extensive meditation.
    Furthermore, Buddhists don’t need a substitute for God…..if you need an imaginary friend I have no problem with that. Carry on.

  315. k-dog December 28, 2011 at 10:56 am #

    “native born Americans are supposedly resistant to education and trades training, isn’t it ironic that these DPs [displaced persons] typically either cannot speak English at all to any appreciable extent, or if they can speak broken English it is with an accent so heavy as to be nearly impenetrable”
    There are plenty of native born workers who are highly skilled, well educated and who are highly motivated with a good work ethic. There are also new citizens who are also highly skilled, well educated and who also are motivated and have good work ethics. Difficulty new citizens have in speaking is understandable since they come from somewhere else.
    The supply of foreign workers totally dwarfs the unemployed domestic supply. The huge difference in this ratio makes finding qualified foreign workers very very easy.
    Temp agencies do employment screening and ‘displaced persons’ are flown in on 747s easily and cheaply.
    From a business standpoint there is no reason not to hire new citizens in preference over native born employees. If laws do not prevent or regulate employment of foreign born workers then business hire them, social contract be dammed. Business will also hire foreign born workers in preference to native workers if laws which prevent or regulate the practice exist but are not enforced. It is not hard to justify when corporations are legally bound to operate in the best interests of their shareholders and not the best interests of the citizens of the country they operate in.
    Getting nit-picky over accents and qualifications misses the point and plays right into the hands of the ‘man’. There are more fundamental issues of individual and social rights to consider.
    Do corporations and businesses have any social responsibilities at all and if so what are they?
    Thousand word essays could define the social responsibilities of corporations or we can simply define their social responsibilities by laws and enforce them. It is not a hard problem to solve if the will of the people and not narrow special interest controls the government.
    Not the red pill, not the blue pill; k-dog for president. K-dog will bite the ‘man’.

  316. anti soak December 28, 2011 at 11:21 am #

    You meant American Gals right?
    Wage has been testy lately.
    re: ‘Or are you just an idiot?’
    No She is.
    She also [months ago[] denied Communist despots

  317. anti soak December 28, 2011 at 11:22 am #

    [woops..hit wrong key…]
    Despots killed oh about 100,000,000.

  318. anti soak December 28, 2011 at 11:25 am #

    ‘Temp agencies do employment screening and ‘displaced persons’ are flown in on 747s easily and cheaply’
    Indian medical docs are also flow in.
    Theres a place in Elsegundo that emplpoys 100-200.
    It preps Indian docs to pass the board.
    Get this, they all pass the board.
    Our local JC got rid of the blue collar departments.
    Not prestigious enough.

  319. dale December 28, 2011 at 11:28 am #

    BBM you’re right about TS Elliot he come across as an elitist, arrogant prick, pretty much my opinion of all the Expat writers of that era, starting with Henry James.
    ————————————
    If anything can be considered foretelling the downfall of the U.S., then it must certainly be this championing of the ignorant and stupid. Anyone smarter or more sensitive then I, well….he must be an elitist?
    While both parties are hopelessly venal and corrupt, the Republican party will certainly deserve a larger than normal share of responsibility for our failure by making stupid fashionable.

  320. k-dog December 28, 2011 at 11:30 am #

    “I don’t like spiders and snakes
    And that ain’t what it takes to love me
    Like I want to be loved by you” – Jim Stafford

  321. Widespreadpanic7 December 28, 2011 at 11:31 am #

    It looks like whitey is being phased out, incrementally, slowly, by degrees (for now). But wait ’till the day comes when we are a proven demographic minority here in the USA. That’s when the fun is really going to start.
    –WSP7

  322. lsjogren December 28, 2011 at 11:32 am #

    “I reckon it will take a few weeks, perhaps through the whole winter, for a sense of swindle to set in among the rooked.”
    Most of the consequences of the financial meltdown have not been felt and will be felt only in coming years.
    I am talking about the massive inflation that is coming.
    Right now who has felt the consequences of the financial bubble? A few people who directly got swindled like the victims of MF Global. Are the unemployed victims? Not really, because their lack of work is due to the fact that in our economic bubbles we had millions of jobs which weren’t “genuine”, for example building a glut of houses beyond what are needed.
    The primary fallout of the financial bubble has not yet occurred. It is the massive inflation that will be experienced in coming years.

  323. Widespreadpanic7 December 28, 2011 at 11:35 am #

    K-dog, many writers in Elliot’s era stayed home and didn’t sneer at the USA from England & France, then high-tail it out of there when the World Wars began.
    Maybe you’re an elitist yourself, smarter than everybody else, who knows?
    –WSP7

  324. lsjogren December 28, 2011 at 11:38 am #

    To clarify the statement about unemployment:
    As Peter Schiff has commented, the recession isn’t the disease, it is the cure.
    The disease was the financial bubble. Unemployment was artificiallly low because we had millions of people doing jobs that only existed because of the massive distortions created in the financial system by the real estate bubble.
    Now the economy is more “normal” (e.g., we aren’t building superfluous homes), and we now have a better view of what the true unemployement rate is, which unfortunately is tragically high.

  325. k-dog December 28, 2011 at 11:39 am #

    The primary fallout of the financial bubble has not yet occurred. It is the massive inflation that will be experienced in coming years.
    Like a frog in a pot but I don’t think we need to be waiting years to experience it, we already are.
    How much is a loaf of bread these days?

  326. MissusQuiche December 28, 2011 at 11:40 am #

    On my friend’s recommendation I’ve given CFN a few weeks look expecting to be dazzled with “brilliant” commentary but found it wanting. This morning’s conversations, Exhibit A. I especially enjoy the Korean(?) clothing ads and Dale and Vlad trying to out-buddhist one another.
    And so I bid you all a Happy New Year and a fond adieu.

  327. lsjogren December 28, 2011 at 11:48 am #

    asoka
    “I offered to never post again on open borders, if you never again posted on racist organizations like FAIR and NumbersUSA. You declined the offer.”
    asoka, only radical leftist hate groups call groups like FAIR racist.

  328. Widespreadpanic7 December 28, 2011 at 11:50 am #

    Theodore Roosevelt authored 40 books in New York, Dakota and Washington, and Owen Wister wrote his classics in his native South. To name just two.
    —WSP7

  329. k-dog December 28, 2011 at 11:52 am #

    Dochaknow Asoka is da ‘man’
    😉

  330. wagelaborer December 28, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    Well, I like snakes and hate cars, so I disprove your hypothesis.
    And I refuse to fall for your southern bait. Your delusions of persecution are exaggerated.

  331. anti soak December 28, 2011 at 12:38 pm #

    Somali refugees are now Gangsters in US Midwest…
    how about this?
    ‘Paul Ramses, arguably Iceland’s most famous asylum seeker, has announced that he is running for president of Iceland.
    Ramses fled to Iceland from Kenya in January 2008, seeking asylum here. When he was deported to Italy, separating him from his wife and newborn child, his case drew national attention, and pressure was put on the government for his return. He was eventually brought back to Iceland, and a few months ago was granted citizenship.
    Ramses apparently is taking his new home to heart. While elections are still two years away, that isn’t stopping Ramses from getting a head start.
    Speaking to the magazine Séð og Heyrt, Ramses says that he feels sorry for Prime Minister Jóhanna Sigurðardóttir, saying that the Independence Party had 18 years to ruin the country, and people are angry that she hasn’t fixed everything in two years. He intends to live in Iceland for the rest of his life, and in following Icelandic politics, decided to run for president.
    “I’ve already written my acceptance speech,” he says in part. “That time will undoubtedly come.”
    He added that he intends to personally increase the republic by having ten more children. “I’m African,” he said. “I want 12 children. So I have ten to go.”
    If you wish to show your support for Paul Ramses’ presidential aspirations, or just get to know the guy better, you can find him on Facebook. ‘

  332. Vlad Krandz December 28, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    Elliot warned the West of the growing Jewish Power and its disastrous effects on our culture. But we didn’t listen and when people who had spoken out had to shut up, Elliot shut up. A good poet and essayist, but not a hero. The hero Ezra Pound ended up in a cage and then the loony bin for having the guts to speak the obvious.

  333. Vlad Krandz December 28, 2011 at 1:09 pm #

    Former SNL writer drinks anti-freeze and dies. Couldn’t take the coming “Fascism” (his word), Depression worse than the 30’s, and Wars for Israel in the Middle East. His Father fought in WW2 and he was very proud of him. Couldn’t stand the idea of America being in the wrong. Well at least he got that much right. But did he have to kill himself? And anti-freeze? A very unpleasant way to go. Was it really suicide?
    http://revoltoftheplebs.wordpress.com/2011/12/27/snl-writer-who-committed-suicide-was-a-strong-critic-of-israel-and-fan-of-what-really-happened/

  334. charliefoxtrot December 28, 2011 at 1:18 pm #

    little late for me; immediately following the movie, i went and found a red AND blue pill, so as to be able to slip seamlessly back and forth from one to another reality…works for me…and no, i don t mean political badges…anyway, i ve always seen corporations as the main reason so many people allow the pillage- it is a paycheck, after all…i think the whole structure needs regulation and revamp, both in how companies are owned, and operated: the health of our planet should be taken into account, as well as the impact on employees of said companies…not saying these are all of the answers, but they should be looked at…oh, and the waltons are rich enough; wal-mart should be nationalized, and brought back to american manufacture…which itself needs to have controls for environmental impact

  335. charliefoxtrot December 28, 2011 at 1:26 pm #

    i suppose i support the occupy stance, in that we earthlings just need to start over, as it were, and “fix” everyrhing- we ve let things get so fubar d that addressing any one aspect is too little, too late…so the real solutions will have to come from the top down: we need real leadership- k-dog for president!

  336. DeeJones December 28, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    “I’m wondering about the tens of millions of Americans crowded into the shopping malls in the days after Christmas. How much stuff do they need too buy? When is enough, enough? Also, where is the money coming from to pay for all this sh-t? ”
    WSP7 – I bet that if you stood at the end of those checkout lines you would see all that ‘stuff’ being paid for with plastic. And, if you took a peek on those wallets & purses, you would probably see at least 5-6 credit cards, and probably each one of them is either totally, or very close to being MAXED out. They also probably have lines of credit of at least $10k+ or more.
    Now, after all that, how do you think the goodies are being paid for? Oh, and the holders of all that plastic are probably juggling payments AND just making the min payment possible.
    Geez… like some other things, this has been pointed out to YOU before. Are you just too dense?
    ;/

  337. Vlad Krandz December 28, 2011 at 1:30 pm #

    Your previous post makes no sense at all so I’m tempted to ignore it. Suffice to say that although I’m sure you could speak learnedly about co-dependent origination, you can’t connect it to obvious everyday things like breaking habits and observing in others how strong the power of the past really is.
    And this post is a humdinger too. Dale, the void is too impersonal for most people – no not just Westerners. The biggest form of Buddhism is the worship of Amdida. People come with their problems and ask for help – just as Christians do to Jesus. God, don’t be such a prick. Btw, the Cult of Amida (Avalokesvara in Tibet I believe) is sanctioned by some of the greatest Sages, particularly of the Zen School. Although accredited Zen Masters, they were disatisfied with their degree of Enlightenment and wished to go to the Pure Land and directly associate with Amida to complete it.
    The paths of Zen, Mahamudra, and Dzog Chen are far too steep for most people. Of course being Dale you believe yourself emminently qualified. I would expect nothing more/less from you. The greatest Sages are willing to humble themselves but I mean they’re not Dale.
    Here’s a little hint from India: most of the great practioners of the non-dual lineages were also devotees or bhaktas of the personal god. As one explained it, to the extent I still feel myself separate, to that extent I still worship. Not a bad precept, eh? Or are you and your Buddhist hero Alan in the highest state at all times?
    If you can’t do bhakti, you have no place in Tantra – be it Tibetan Buddhist or Hindu. Guru Yoga and the Yogas of the Deities are the basics of your School. Yes, the Deities are dissolved into Emptiness but so are you Dale, so are you. And first you have to generate them – a big problem for an Ego like you. You don’t want to share your consciousness like that. You’re missing the boat. Your Dzog Chen is a way of avoidance of all the prerequisites – as you admitted last week.

  338. charliefoxtrot December 28, 2011 at 1:32 pm #

    …and while you re at it, how ’bout taking a page out of gold sack s book, and appointing some congress critturs (and bitches) to live in their various districts, for a change, and listen to their constituents, for some hope, who can get a real sense of what needs to be done, and in what order…see what i did there…^?

  339. trippticket December 28, 2011 at 1:32 pm #

    Hey POC. Hope you and the rest of the gang had a great holiday. Just sent an email your way, to the Walker account, and will be looking forward to a reply. Cheers!
    Tripp

  340. DeeJones December 28, 2011 at 1:32 pm #

    ”m looking for POSITIVES about immigration that don’t involve:
    1. Economic growth
    2. Moral Platitudes
    3. Ethnic dining and ethnic entertainment
    I don’t consider wage stagnation due to H1B ”
    Oh, NOW you tell us you are looking for the +.
    Well, I’ll go with #3 above. Bite me….
    ;]

  341. Vlad Krandz December 28, 2011 at 1:40 pm #

    So what do we do? Just accept it or fight? What would the Founders do?
    And let’s face it, based on what’s going on in Europe and America, were we really right about fighting those wars in Europe? Weren’t we really fighting against Western Culture? I meaning “the Allies” have proceeded to end Western Culture by the changing the population. Slow mo ethnic cleansing. That’s what happens when you have a purely economic approach to life – sweetened by a good dose of self hatred and ideological craziness like Communism and Feminism.

  342. k-dog December 28, 2011 at 2:18 pm #

    Government exists to stop pillage and make sure social and environmentalexternalities are accounted for and proper dues collected where appropriate. There is so much more to it of course but basics have been neglected far too long.
    You said:
    the whole structure needs regulation and revamp,
    and made these three points.
    ? Change how companies are owned and operated.
    ? Take into account the health of our planet.
    ? The Impact of companies on employees matter.

    Three great places to start but right now not even these things are on anyone’s table. The Sustainable Canine Party will bring issues of substance like these onto our governments table. The dawn of a new populist movement has risen. Meat for everybody.
    The time to start saving humanity is now.

  343. Widespreadpanic7 December 28, 2011 at 2:24 pm #

    Ya DJ, maybe I am dense, because after near economic collapse here in 2008, and in Europe in 2011, as Ripthunder pointed out on Monday, not much seems to have changed.
    Now Iran is threatening to close down the Straits of Hormuz. If one of their land based missiles slams into a US Naval vessel there will be hell to pay.
    Despite all this, and a million other things, its still happy motoring on the interstates, and happy shopping at the mall.
    You would think that these events would be cause for some introspection amongst the population, the institutions and the media. But it hasn’t. Its just more of the same bullshit; who’s ahead in the Republican primary, what the Kardashian sisters are up to, who will make the playoffs in the NFL …
    It looks like we will have to find out about TLE the hard way, i.e., being slapped in the face by it.
    –WSP7

  344. k-dog December 28, 2011 at 2:49 pm #

    Should things progress to a k-dog for pres doghouse on the web I would include this as a link.
    Community Wealth.ORG
    Why succumb to TLE when you can kick it’s ass.

  345. dale December 28, 2011 at 3:34 pm #

    Vlad,
    Your mind slips in and out of rationality so frequently it’s absurd. You quite simply are hearing (or imaging) a number of things for which there is absolutely no proof, were never said, or for which you have utterly no knowledge.
    Trying to have a discussion with you is like trying to comb your hair in a funhouse mirror….or discussing quantum physics with a four year old. In other words….A WASTE OF MY TIME! So….you’re posts are back to the shitcan. See ya.

  346. Widespreadpanic7 December 28, 2011 at 4:05 pm #

    “So what do we do, accept it or fight”.
    –VladK
    Vlad, fight against who? The currents of history? The FBI, ATF, US Marshals Service? They would crush you like a grape in no time flat.
    Save yourself, that’s my advice, which you pretty much have already done by moving to Idaho. You don’t have much to worry about up in that remote, mountainous, 98% white state.
    –WSP7

  347. BeantownBill December 28, 2011 at 4:09 pm #

    Here’s a new year’s resolution for CFNers: ignore the irrelevent posts. Don’t reply. Keep on topic.
    Right now I’m at 40-60 for scrolling past vs. reading. When I get over 50-50 I’m outta here for good. My time’s too valuable to waste reading about racial shit, the bad Jews and Zionists and other such absurdities. Let’s try for relevence, clear thinking and new ideas. It’s a shame that the true peak-everything, thoughtful bloggers are being drowned out by schizoid, hateful, weak-minded, site-wreckers and their alter-egos. Who said, “90% of everything is crap”? Sadly, this is being confirmed at CFN.

  348. ABSALOM December 28, 2011 at 4:24 pm #

    Bill wrote:
    Here’s a new year’s resolution for CFNers: ignore the irrelevent posts. Don’t reply. Keep on topic.
    ===========================================
    I’m in on that resolution. I’m guilty of contributing to the distractions. No more.
    ===========================================
    Bill wrote:
    It’s a shame that the true peak-everything, thoughtful bloggers are being drowned out…
    ===========================================
    Thanks for a reminder of the only reason I visited this site in the first place.
    ABSALOM

  349. ABSALOM December 28, 2011 at 4:30 pm #

    Iran is threatening to close the straight of Hormuz, probably a bluff, but a risky one in every sense. Is this the start of it Ladies and Gentlemen? Time to strengthen community ties to stave off social chaos. Precarious times indeed.
    HAPPY and HEALTHY nEw Year to all.
    ABSALOM

  350. charliefoxtrot December 28, 2011 at 4:42 pm #

    …i wasn t kidding about occupy wal-mart: just go in, and wander about randomly filling up a cart, then “decide you can t afford all this crap”…hit em where it counts, in their profit margin…

  351. anti soak December 28, 2011 at 4:44 pm #

    8anta wore a disguise!
    Islamic honor killing in Texas: “Santa” who murdered family on Christmas morning was Muslim who didn’t like his daughter dating a non-Muslim
    Aziz Yazdanpanah, a Muslim, didn’t like his daughter’s non-Muslim boyfriend and was exhibiting stalker behavior.
    “She couldn’t date at all until she was a certain age, but when he was going to let her date she couldn’t date anyone outside of their race or religion.”
    Again and again we have seen honor killings in which fathers kill daughters who are dating non-Muslims or have supposedly besmirched the family honor by some sexual indiscretion.
    Lt. Todd Dearing says that motive isn’t important — which is generally only the case when Islam is involved.
    Motive is not important, [dumb lib].
    oblem

  352. k-dog December 28, 2011 at 4:44 pm #

    ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    Try thinking of it like what has recently been discovered about human DNA. Most of the human DNA molecule seems to be wasted space. There are long stretches of nucleotides that don’t seem to code for anything and are considered to be junk.
    Take it with humor if you can and try and see it as a necessary inconvenience of free speech.
    And if you need to buy a knock off Korean handbag you know where to go.
    ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

  353. anti soak December 28, 2011 at 4:45 pm #

    Any idea what the clothing ads are about?
    dale n Vlad are debating, this went on alot in Tibet at monasteries.

  354. anti soak December 28, 2011 at 4:48 pm #

    ENDING THE DEBATE[S] WITH HIM..ON ALL MATTERS..
    IS THAT A PROMISE?

  355. ABSALOM December 28, 2011 at 4:51 pm #

    I’m wondering if this latest tumult in the ME isn’t going to spike oil and create a Run on Walmart, if that makes any sense. Pretty much all the candidates and pundits are beginning to whip up a frenzy. Well, maybe they’ve been slow churning it the whole time.
    I’m interested in a discussion about infrastructural impacts if there are any with insights on this. I don’t care about the politics necessarily.

  356. BeantownBill December 28, 2011 at 5:09 pm #

    You’re welcome.

  357. BeantownBill December 28, 2011 at 5:17 pm #

    The point is, K-dog, that I don’t want to be inconvenienced; life is too short, and annoyances unnecessary.
    But here’s a thought: it must be a real bitch to read Korean if you’re dyslexic!
    For real: K-dog for president!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  358. BeantownBill December 28, 2011 at 5:53 pm #

    I lived through the Arab oil embargo of 1973. As I recall, infrastructure wasn’t affected, but there was a strain on Americans’ living routines. Now, going to fill up your gas tank takes but a few minutes, and other than complaining about the price, is a non-event. IN 1973, getting a fill-up was a time-consuming hassle. At first, you could get gas anytime you wanted, but waiting in line often took 1 or 2 hours, and sometimes the gas station ran out while you were in the middle of the line. People became cranky, then very angry. I would often drive by gas stations with their pump areas blocked off and had signs saying no more gas. Eventually, a sort of rationing took place in Massachusetts: we could only buy gas on even or odd numbered days, based on the last digit of our license plates.
    Before the crisis began, the average gas price was around $.35/gallon, but once the embargo took effect, the price shockingly surged to over $1/gallon. A few gas station operators took advantage by price-gouging. One station owner near Beacon Hill gained notoriety for charging $5/gallon, and many fools paid the price (some paid just to be able to tell their friends they paid that price).
    People had to plan their actvities around their gas tank status. I didn’t make plans too far in advance for social events I had to drive to. Other than this, life went on, albeit with a lot of discussions about what was really happening behind the scene – you know, conspiracies and stuff of that nature.
    I read somewhere on-line that 16% of the world’s oil passes through the strait of Hormuz. This is a significant percentage, but not enough to cause major changes in how Americans live their life – although if we react the same way we did in 1973, I could see gas prices tripling temporarily, out of fear, and that would lead to lifestyle changes, for sure. I also read in the same article that it’s unlikely that Iran could successfully block the entire strait, particularly when tankers begin being escorted by warships.

  359. sevenmmm December 28, 2011 at 6:22 pm #

    Did listen to the podcast with JMG, and was happy to hear about his views rather than read them! Thanks a lot.
    JHK, you had better ask JMG what magic really is before publishing your next book. You will be surprised that magic is nothing like the miracles you want to describe in the book’s title.
    Good job with the interview, I hope you get him on again soon. Thanks.

  360. charliefoxtrot December 28, 2011 at 6:59 pm #

    ~shudder~ i ve just had my first experience of being banned from a blog; i feel just plain dirty from being a part of their group for even such a short time…anyone out there feel like giving me a quick tutorial on how to create a few bogus screen id s, in order that i might disrupt their precious circle jerk for a day or two? so you know, ‘democratic underground’ is not all that democratic after all! pretentious fucking snobs, if you ask me

  361. ABSALOM December 28, 2011 at 7:00 pm #

    People had to plan their actvities around their gas tank status. I didn’t make plans too far in advance for social events I had to drive to. Other than this, life went on, albeit with a lot of discussions about what was really happening behind the scene – you know, conspiracies and stuff of that nature.
    ================================================
    Yes. This is exactly what I was interested in. Infrastructure impact was the wrong phrasing, perhaps possible systemic disruption is worse. Cluster Fuck is perfect. I’m wondering what an equivalent scenario would look like today. If gas averages at $3 – $3.50, the what effect will a $2.00 spike have?
    I remember people bitchin’ up a storm at $4 plus prices. I remember the strain that had on their already over stretched paychecks. I was a student then as I am now, so I’m duckin’ the effects differently than my friends with wives, girlfriends and kids to look can. I can live in a small tent if necessary. They probably would have to rely on????? So few people have prepped.
    My guess is that there’s a good chance average households will collapse at an even greater rate than they are now, while things are still hunky dory. But in terms of effects of a more systemic nature. If people suddenly have to make a decision between driving to work or buying food, something will have to give, and it’s this domino effect that I’m betting might play out this year. Sears just announced a big fire sale, and they’ve been around for better than 100 years or something. How could any number of smaller businesses survive a sudden spike in fuel costs? Is it a waste of time pondering such chaos?
    I’m convinced the government has abandoned party politics altogether and is just gearing up for the shitstorm while Joe the Plumber still worries whether his guy will get the nod or retain his seat. The media debates are about as useful as last years magazines lately.

  362. Vlad Krandz December 28, 2011 at 7:25 pm #

    Insulting me is not the same as answering me. You have no answer. I win. Again.
    If you could but see: a gracious accptance of defeat would be a manifestiation of bodhicitta. And if you could keep doing that, you might not even have to generate the Deities – or it would be within your reach of you so chose.

  363. DeeJones December 28, 2011 at 7:32 pm #

    WEll, here is someting to think about:
    Gasoline prices may rise above $4 a gallon next summer as refineries along the U. S. East Coast close, reducing fuel supply…”
    http://www.buffalonews.com/business/briefs/article687025.ece
    Hmmm…. so if the Hormuz gets closed, you may start thinking about gas in the $6-7+ range, perhaps?
    Hows that going down in the ol’ SUV that gets, what, 15mpgs?
    ;]

  364. anti soak December 28, 2011 at 8:36 pm #

    gawd…but gas in Australia has been 7$ for years?
    yes? no?

  365. anti soak December 28, 2011 at 8:36 pm #

    I was banned from TAKI MAG…
    where were you banned from?

  366. anti soak December 28, 2011 at 8:38 pm #

    ‘of the non-dual lineages were also devotees or bhaktas of the personal …’
    Well if they are non dualists wha da ya expect?

  367. Vlad Krandz December 28, 2011 at 8:49 pm #

    Anyone watch the funeral of “Dear Leader” in North Korea? The whole country is a cult. Most of them are faking it, thankfully. But the false consciousness continues. A Nation of Dales, Turks, and Absaloms.

  368. ABSALOM December 28, 2011 at 8:55 pm #

    Dee, i think you’ve underscored a key point: there won’t be single factors escalating the crises, their will be numerous culminating influences. This is why i think the (G)overnment is in triage mode. Regardless of the party lines, no constituencies interests are being served by recent legislation. I’ve been trying to read more of the actuals bills that get passes; the language smacks of Big Brother interests, not regular folks’.
    Grazi for the link
    ABSALOM

  369. Vlad Krandz December 28, 2011 at 9:02 pm #

    Don’t understand, can you rephrase? Or was that just rhetorical? The point: that devotion is conducive to Realization. Ramana said so himself. He was a Great Devotee of Arunchala, the Holy Mountain – a physical manifestation of Shiva. He never ceased in his Devotion since he was still a man who walked around, ate, talked, etc. If he was in Nirvikalpa Samadhi all the time then you wouldn’t need to fee devotional.
    Some have talked about natural or Sahaja Samadhi which persists permanently – with just enough subject/object consciousness left to maneuver oneself around. Maybe, but it must be very rare. In any case, someone so exalted, who has transcended all need for bhakti, is not going to mock Religious people as “having invisible friends”. Sickening. Who the hell does this guy think he is? Trying to win points with the Atheists? And what does that say of him?
    Ramakrisna, the Bhakta par excellant, had another point of view. Attain the samadhi of the Divine Person and He/She (your pick!) will Themselves give you the Supreme Vision – if you still want it.
    This is pretty far from Buddhism – much farther than Advaita. But the Dalai Lama himself said that he could see that Theisms like Christianity produced extraordinary people, people with higher consciousness. He said this despite the fact that he found many aspects of Christianity strange, alien, or even incomprehensible. Now that is a Man with an open mind.

  370. vnrwandkhb December 28, 2011 at 10:09 pm #

    ???????J1?????????????????????OB??????????????????47???????NI GA NA TA?????????????GA GA?TA?21?????????KA TA???????????????GA??????????????????TA???????????“?????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????”???? ??? s???TA????????????????????????????????????????? ???????94?????????W?????????????????NI??? 1995?KA??????????????NI????96?n????????J???????????NI TA?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????TA?????N?????? [?]????

  371. progress2conserve December 28, 2011 at 11:11 pm #

    “The plan is to lower the wages of US citizens until we are “competitive” with the lowest paid workers in the world.
    I don’t understand why you can’t understand this.”
    -wage, laboring so hard that….-
    Wage, I have to say, that of all the crazy arguments that I have had on CFN, in the past year – this one with you and DeeJ is about to set a record as the most insane, IMO.
    I am against immigration into the US, of any and all types. I am against legal immigration. I am against illegal immigration. I am against immigration that benefits the 1%. I am against immigration that harms the 99%. I am even against immigration that might BENEFIT the 99% at the EXPENSE of the 1%. I am against immigration in a way that transcends ANY simple political consideration – because I am convinced that high immigration into the US – will eventually KILL US ALL, everyone on Earth.
    I am convinced that stopping US immigration is the ONE, single – and POLITICALLY relatively EASY THING – that might solve most all other problems.
    Even absalom agrees that reducing immigration into the US is a good idea – I think. Who can be sure – with the way he parses words and phrases.
    ==================
    Dee is pretty new to CFN, Wage. You are not.
    What is wrong with you, to be thinking that I’m looking for a positive outcome for immigration into the US. There are no positive outcomes for immigration into the US.
    Except for:
    growth
    moral platitudes
    ethnic dining and entertainment.
    What else do you want me to say here, Wage?
    Because, to quote Ms. Wage L:
    “I don’t understand why you can’t understand this.”

  372. progress2conserve December 28, 2011 at 11:22 pm #

    “Oh, NOW you tell us you are looking for the +.
    Well, I’ll go with #3 above.”
    -deeJ, still going for sarcasm, I think-
    Who the hell knows, Dee. I’m quite certain that you’ve gone on record as being opposed to current high US immigration rates. Let’s go with that for now, and let the water clear a little bit.
    I’m ready to bury the hatchet here, and not in one another’s heads.
    And, as far as this lovely (lively?) sentiment:
    “Bite me….” -deeJ, to P2C-
    Well, OK, if that’s what you really want, Dee.
    Do you want to bitten gently, or with passion?
    And, how’s that Divine Inferno at the Mall coming along, BTW?

  373. progress2conserve December 28, 2011 at 11:43 pm #

    “These are the kind of suggestions for positive change thatProcon ignores in his incessant pleas for attention ..” -asoka, responding to jerry-
    Jerry – there is absolutely NOTHING WHATSOEVER in your post that argues in favor of the present high levels of immigration into the United States.
    Indeed, from your website:
    “The world is operating on a shell game mentality.”
    Movement of impoverished people INTO the United States is NOTHING, if it is not a sort of shell game.
    ===============================
    More importantly, Jerry – asoka., sometimes known as “the resident impediment” is twisting and spinning YOUR words, Jerry – to impede dialog.
    So, tell us what you think about immigration, Jerry. You may be for it or you may be against it – but asoka. has NO IDEA what you propose, from your brief post to CFN.
    So far, asoka. is the only CFN poster this week to argue, totally, in favor of US immigration.
    And he won’t give reasons. (because he can’t?)
    Except for the well known:
    1. economic growth
    2. moral platitudes*
    3. ethnic food and entertainment
    *asoka. argues that any group OPPOSED to immigration is RACIST. This is a pernicious and divisive sort of “moral platitude.”
    ====================
    and no, ixnomore, i’m not a troll. i’m a little obsessed, but that is all. the floor is open. anyone can weigh in with new ideas in favor of high rates of immigration – even a.., if he can generate a new idea.

  374. Buck Stud December 29, 2011 at 12:07 am #

    WSP,
    Who are you responding to, or are you channeling Vlad out in the wilderness? And what if you pulled up a bar stool like Norm and blurted out that comment – WTF? It reminded me of a world rthymn music festival I attended about five years ago when a Jeff Spicoli clone came up to me and approvingly announced, “Alright,a white guy”:)

  375. anti soak December 29, 2011 at 12:59 am #

    DEE has been here for years!
    Did ya hear about the African [somali] refugees in the central states that have formed gangs?
    Refugees are a problem.

  376. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 1:23 am #

    Yeah right Bill. All Jews are good and all the things they do are good. Satisfied? Have you no shame?

  377. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 1:29 am #

    Here is Churchill’s famous article on the Jewish Leadership in Bolshevism – absolutely amazed you don’t know about it. Of course he sold out a bit later and never said another word. And that went along with his pathological hatred of Germany. To hell with the World, as long as we can get those krauts! I assume of course that you’ve read Buchanan’s “The Unnecessary War” and know that Hitler was an extreme Anglo-phile and had no intentions of attacking Britain until Britain forced hostilities.
    http://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/WSC/WSCwrote1920.html

  378. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 1:35 am #

    Sure Buck. Guess math isn’t your strong suite. 90% in 1960 to about 65-70% now. Quite a drop in two generations. Now big step here – extend the rate of decline two more generations and factor in how many babies the Mexes are having here. We will be an aging minnority by 2050. The rate of minority births is already even with White births.
    But none of that means anything, right? Hope your good with painting skeletons and like bright colors.

  379. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 1:47 am #

    She’s a “political animal” and factions and hoped for alliances, and Marxist dialectic all serve to overwhelm her idealism for the Earth and America. Like most women, her mind is a constant whirl of he said she said, tit for tat, etc.
    Remember Lenin’s dictum: Worse is better. That always plays in when you’re dealing with these people. You can never be sure if they really want to help the situation or make it worse so as to bring on the Revolution. Do you think Obama really wants to save the American Economy?

  380. eljxanjgil December 29, 2011 at 1:54 am #

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  381. Pucker December 29, 2011 at 2:01 am #

    “Pucker —
    It’s not all that often that Michelle and I get to host a casual meal with friends.
    That’s one of the reasons we’re both excited about the upcoming dinner with three supporters and your guests.
    It’s the first one we’ve ever done like this together, and we’d love to have you and whoever you choose to join us.
    Chip in $3 or whatever you can today — and you’ll automatically be entered to be one of our dinner guests.
    I enjoy these dinners not just because they’re a way to connect with supporters across the country.
    They also say a lot about what kind of campaign we’re running.
    We don’t take a dime from D.C. lobbyists or special-interest PACs — never have and never will. Instead, we believe in the kind of politics that gives everyone a seat at the table — so we’re literally offering these seats at dinner to folks who are willing to step forward and be a part of it.
    There are just a few days left to add your name for a chance to be one of our guests at the next dinner, and help build this campaign before 2012 finally arrives.
    Make a donation of $3 or whatever you can today — and automatically enter to be there:
    https://donate.barackobama.com/Me-and-Michelle
    Thanks,
    Barack”

  382. wagelaborer December 29, 2011 at 2:16 am #

    Here’s the problem, Prog.
    Dee and I see that policy is made by and for the 1%.
    It doesn’t matter that immigration doesn’t benefit the 99%.
    That’s irrelevant to the 1%.
    You seem to believe that policy is made for the benefit of the majority of the people of the US. You seem to believe that your opinions matter to the policymakers. You seem to believe that petitioning the lawmakers with sincere arguments will equal the money of the lobbyists.
    Dee and I don’t believe any of that. We see that immigration serves the interests of the ruling class, not the rest of us. And therefore, that immigration will be allowed.
    I don’t know how to put it any more plainly.
    They’re just not that into you, or your concerns, prog. It doesn’t matter what you think. The profits to be made from cheap labor rule over your objections.

  383. h7m1s7g1 December 29, 2011 at 4:43 am #

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  384. asoka. December 29, 2011 at 8:08 am #

    Jesus Christ Claims Tim Tebow Not Ready To Be NFL Starter
    DENVER—Jesus Christ, noted Son of God and football analyst proclaimed Monday that second-year Broncos quarterback Tim Tebow lacks the pocket presence, arm strength, and passing accuracy necessary to be a starter in the NFL. “Tim’s place is at the right hand of the other backups on the bench, and his earthly works show that he deserves to dwell there all the days of his life,” said Lord and Savior of all mankind, adding, ““It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for Tim Tebow to complete a pass against the Cover-2”. “For Tebow must have faith in coach Fox’s plan, and pay his dues by wearing the headset, and by calling in plays from the clipboard while watching from the sidelines.” Christ also asked Tebow to stop praying to Him and asking to be made the number one quarterback in the depth chart, claiming “that’s never going to fucking happen.”
    — The Onion Sports News

  385. metuselah December 29, 2011 at 8:13 am #

    That’s irrelevant to the 1%.
    ==
    True. But what is not irrelevant to the 1% is the democratic process. I don’t mean political elections, because we all know that is a charade and a rigged game. I mean a real democratic process, where you vote with the dollar, or rather, where you vote against their dollar and their banks, where you vote against their corporations, where you vote against paying them tribute by way of taxes, where you vote against having anything to do with their professional associations and institutions. I’m talking about a real vote of no-confidence in their system of theft and abuse.

  386. asoka. December 29, 2011 at 8:25 am #

    Procon said: There are no positive outcomes for immigration into the US.
    —————–
    Wow! Incredibly selfish, ignorant, and racist!
    Procon is saying: My family done immigrated here from Europe. Me and mine are here… Now let’s slam the door shut.
    We stole the land using guns and negotiated a treaty with Mexico in bad faith, altered the treaty to steal properties and make it look legal.
    Now the damn brown people are trying to take back their land. (and they are succeeding!)
    I got mine … Quick, shut the door!

  387. DeeJones December 29, 2011 at 8:34 am #

    Que?!

  388. progress2conserve December 29, 2011 at 8:46 am #

    “Procon said: There are no positive outcomes for immigration into the US.” That do not involve:
    1. economic growth
    2. moral platitudes
    3. ethnic dining and entertainment.
    -asoka-
    Then asoka indulges in #2, above, by labeling any effort to discuss immigration reduction as racist.

  389. progress2conserve December 29, 2011 at 9:05 am #

    “Dee and I don’t believe any of that. We see that immigration serves the interests of the ruling class, not the rest of us. And therefore, that immigration will be allowed.”
    -wage-
    I see that too, Wage. Anyone with half a brain should be able to see that – going back to Reagan’s legalization of all those Mexicans in 1981, if not a lot further back.
    So, Wage and Dee – Occupy Wall Street, The Greens of California, and all Organizations Various and Sundry – that claim to be for the interests of American Labor – should be opposed to high rates of legal and illegal immigration.
    Yet, they are often NOT so opposed.
    Explain this, if you please.
    ============================
    And I guess the answer will involve some idea that there would be “plenty for all of us,” (including millions and millions of unskilled immigrants?) if the ruling class would only learn to share.
    And that may have been true, when the US was THE dominant economic power and we had strong private industry unions and 200,000,000 residents. But those days are gone and they are never coming back.
    And the ruling class will never share.
    So it’s time for OWS, etc, to truly stand up for the working class and oppose further immigration.
    It’s one area, symbolic yet important, that should unite the 99% – both Left and Right.
    So why don’t these organizations change their policies on immigration??

  390. charliefoxtrot December 29, 2011 at 9:24 am #

    democratic nazis- i mean underground…

  391. Alexandra December 29, 2011 at 9:40 am #

    Season greetings Clusterf#ckers all, no matter what your class, ethnicity, creed or cravings. However if you’re afflicted by blinkered evangelical fundamentalist Christian views and are a high ranking NRA big wig, then skip this post from me for sure…
    For the rest, yep even you too yanky-doodle-dandy Vladminator, I thought I’d just ping in a quick hello, to see how you’re all doing?
    My highlights for entertainment during this Yuletide break – apart from reading good ole JKHs weekly missives of course – was watching Nick Bloomfield’s ‘Sarah Palin You betcha!’ aired on Channel 4 this week.
    The ‘key’ point he makes is how on earth did this very parochial, stuck in pre-teen behaviour, gum chewing, spiteful, centre of attention cheerleader prone woman actually get a real standing for office chance of being installed in your nations top administration HQ… the Whitehouse??
    This – despite when you pealed away the brilliant white Christian coiffured gloss exterior – she had only a track record of being absolutely hopeless at running anything of merit. Once installed even at base mayoral level, any staff with academic pedigree quickly got ‘thrown under the bus’… And even now on her numerous, maverick going rouge lecture tours she still espouses lies and bent truths, but no matter what she screeches out, power-suit clad her faithful lap it up, ovation cheer it on, and no doubt will help push-out those that may in future stand for any democratic based office.
    (christian, zealot bot drones, once activated.. go flame, protest and death-threat at their masters bidding)
    It just goes to prove that as long as Fox TV/Murdoch/KochBros. backs you, patriotic emotionality and star-spangled rhetoric mixed with gleaming white teeth and lipstick count for much, much more than any intelligent form of democratic tempered debate can ever hope to counter.
    So one would have to conclude, (that in the USA) the barbarians have in fact won… as we CFN’ers know too that the rule of law in your nation is no longer relevant, and that even executing foreign leaders (Gansta style) is now fully Hillary Rodham Clinton green-lighted and game on. As that tiresome labouring process of the court of law is no longer seen as a required form of moral due diligence. Much as with Mrs Palin and ‘Troopergate’… and our once beloved Tony Bliar, whom ignored the full UN legal mandates for joint shock-an-awe strikes against Iraq – simply put bullying and big stick beatings is now the new normal.
    So if the Israelites do in fact strike out soon at the Iranians, perhaps the closing of the Strait of Hormuz in retaliation will be just the sort of infidel sharp, short bitchsl#p shock we’ll need in the OECD befuddled West to give us the collective wake-up reset that might finally do us all some good.
    (Which brings me onto my final thought for today)
    For those that can remember me mentioning a skipper I recently encountered, whom had been close to the end of his personal three year obsession, of launching a custom 87’ twin rudder carbon-composite ketch out of the UK come July 2012, down there in Hampshire. 6 weeks ago he was the kid in the candy store… jet-setting fully and had rented a house out there in St. Lucia to meet sail mates finishing this years ARC, when he realised his ‘man flu’ was a tad worse than he initially thought…
    To cut a story short, it was Pneumonia and unlike George Michael, Jeff at just 47 didn’t make it. His last email on a Sat afternoon, was light-hearted and scoffing at me for going out into the squalls and rain to hike Dartmoor, but by the following morning Sunday 18th Dec’ he was dead. He will now never head out into the big blue and fulfil his personal nautical dream, taking his new boats helm for the very first time… though his ashes were dispersed at sea.
    The moral? There isn’t one except perhaps this… concentrate on the right here, right now as for all of us it really is the ‘best’ there is. Utopia… by definition you’ll never get there.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVAnlke_xUY
    Ciao bella

  392. charliefoxtrot December 29, 2011 at 9:47 am #

    prog, i think the problem is that the last generation has been brought up with the idea of political correctness there are many of us in the field of construction who have felt the effect of plummeting wages, and know why it happened- it s damned difficult to do anything about it when if one brings up the subject one is instantly called a racist…another reason, i think, is that the majority of 20-somethings today have never worked in the trades, or for that matter really worked at anything, so have faced no competition that can be seen…and then there is always the basic human decency at some level (i know, not all feel or recognize it!) that tells us in our got that these people will suffer if they stay in mexico, india, somalia, etc and yeah, i realize they could stay home and make their country better so the lure of “the streets paved with gold” isn t so strong…in closing, i think met posted above the most realistic way to fight the interests of the 1%; i would add that educating some of the foreign nationals already here about what conditions are really in place, and try to achieve some changes in their attitude and behavior, vis a vis quit undercutting the wage system; that hurts us all…realistically, i believe a worldwide workers general strike and, if necessary, revolution will be necessary to make any changes at this late juncture…

  393. ozone December 29, 2011 at 9:54 am #

    “It looks like we will have to find out about TLE the hard way, i.e., being slapped in the face by it.”
    –WSP7
    Correct! (…Excellent observations on cognitive dissonance in action on levels local, national, and international.)
    I just returned from Charleston, SC, and I have to tell ya man, it’s the very definition of JHK’s Clusterfuck Nation. Christ, talk about the blind leading the blind on a truly massive scale! Strip malls everywhere (some in lingering decrepitude and decline, while they’re busy building MORE), packed trailer “communities”, roads overflowing with low-mpg pick-me-ups, SUVs and muscle cars, housing tracts in hurry-the-hell-up construction (employing obvious “imported” laborers), secondary roads falling to ruination, and a huge influx of big corporations that only make things SUPPORTED BY CHEAP FOSSIL-FUEL ENERGY. Plus the outrageous blatant racism that’s overlain with a very thin veneer of civility. (This is all against all racism, everyone’s a victim and persecutor at the same time; I see a subtle distractionary programming in this weird aspect of the locale.) Their infrastructure is not going to support this massive influx of people and resource-gobbling industries for too long. It seems EVERYTHING besides the seafood is imported here! I sure as hell would not want to be in the middle of this sprawling tangle of know-nothing-ism when TSHTF. Ammo is cheap and plentiful however, so things will get sorted out in the most basic grass-roots way. It might be a good place to do some sea-based trade, a few years after the Great Reckoning that surely follows the Great Crumbling, as night follows day. A good harbor is a good harbor, that is undeniable until Nature takes it in hand to change it.
    This is a land in complete and utter denial of “coming attractions”… in other words, a politicians unending wet-dream of boobs to be milked and rubes to be bilked.

  394. ozone December 29, 2011 at 10:18 am #

    Abs,
    I am heartened to see you have flexibility in areas thoughtful and physical. That, and the acquisition of truly useful skills, is going to be of utmost importance in the near future, IMHO.
    “Is it a waste of time pondering such chaos?
    I’m convinced the government has abandoned party politics altogether and is just gearing up for the shitstorm while Joe the Plumber still worries whether his guy will get the nod or retain his seat. The media debates are about as useful as last years magazines lately.” -AMR
    Ties right in with my thoughts about the blinkered denial of the lumpenprole. It’s quite useful to the PTB to keep the general populace as dumb as possible and distracted as possible. (Keeps ’em from tumbling to who their real enemies are, don’cha know.)
    Pondering the present and future chaos is NOT a waste of time; it’s most important in “positioning” oneself [as best as one can] to survive the outcomes of our multiple predicaments. (Energy, agriculture, water, political and religious vampirism, social organization, pollution, climate, etc.) There are some feedback loops that simply have to play out; there’s little to “be done”, and dealing with the outcomes will be quite the survival challenge.
    Good luck, my wager is on you and folks “like” you, who are intensely curious as to what is really going on and why, rather than folks like me who are somewhat (or maybe, greatly) limited by psychologies of previous investment (tm JHK). :o)

  395. ozone December 29, 2011 at 10:21 am #

    Oops, left out “over-population” as one of the most obvious multiple predicaments. (Sorry P2C. ;o)

  396. ozone December 29, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    P2C,
    This comment by Wage should lay things out well for you, regarding her and Dee’s opinion on the matter. (I happen to agree with them as well.)
    Any “organization” that becomes a political force will be co-opted. The evidence for this abounds.
    Top-down “solutions” to the immigration predicament will be inadequate, wrong-headed and [most importantly] beneficial to those who already profit from the status quo. Economic collapse is the only situation in which all hands are exposed for those willing to look. Things are just going to have to shake out in an “organic” way. I know you’d rather that it be by calm and thoughtful compromise, but I have very little hope of that. Look who’s placed themselves in charge of those processes and you’ll see why I feel that way.

  397. charliefoxtrot December 29, 2011 at 10:56 am #

    well said, ozone…

  398. anti soak December 29, 2011 at 10:59 am #

    What dishonest folks like Asoka dont know or admit is immigration to the ‘white countries’ allows the
    turd world to continue to over populate.
    Imagine Mexico with the 50 million Latinos that USA has and w/o the billions of dollars sent from el norte!

  399. anti soak December 29, 2011 at 11:02 am #

    You are so sick.
    Let 1/2 jewish Maher mock Islam and Israel.
    What a fukkin coward he is.
    BOYCOTT HBO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  400. mika. December 29, 2011 at 11:03 am #

    Things are just going to have to shake out in an “organic” way.
    ==
    Exactly. An organic reaction of disgust and revulsion, and an aversion of having anything to do or be in any way connected with these megalomaniac vatican jesuit predators and their imperialist proxies.

  401. anti soak December 29, 2011 at 11:03 am #

    What I mean is ‘of course non daulists’ worship a God.
    What else would they do?

  402. Buck Stud December 29, 2011 at 11:13 am #

    And I could say that reading comprehension is not your strong suit. With more careful reading you would see that I was commenting on the out-of-the-blue nature of WideSpread’s post, and not on any “numbers”.
    In fact, you read just fine; my post was just another opportunity for yet another endless VK ethnic contortion.
    Somebody mentioned that you reside in the white bread state of Idaho, enveloped by acre after acre occupied by your ethnic brethren. So what’s the problem Vlad, why the obsessive compulsion with race when you are not directly affected by those of a different race? If you answer is because of “the greater nation” than I will say you need to take a correspondingly great stand and open your own blog with your real name, otherwise you’re just a coward and a hypocrite. Not to mention wholly unworthy of invoking the courage and resolve of the founding fathers as you frequently do.
    So what’s it going to be Vlad Krantz, a Miller Moth compulsively flapping its wings and disturbing the light on CFN, or brave racial segregationist willing to hold his noble forehead high for all to see in the light of day?

  403. old69 December 29, 2011 at 11:17 am #

    From:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=177766
    The Myth of “JOBS”
    Actually, come to think about it, our present society, system, economic system has nothing at all to do with jobs and work at all ! It is mostly independent of “Jobs” and “Work”, doesn’t even need “Jobs” and “Work” and needs to “create Jobs” and “Jobs” and “Work” in general like a hole in the head.
    Many just can’t cram it in their thick heads that our present Technological Economy doesn’t need more jobs, more work, doesn’t create more jobs and work, needs more than anything else, consumerism and consumers, needs options and games, needs ever more free time to waste on options and games and wild consumption because the system produces free production by the boatloads, produces and can potentially produce way more than can ever be consumed by the boatloads. Just think, how can there be so many trillions of dollars floating around in the world banks and all, when so few people do any real work at all, most are just producing fluff (all the Information Workers, producing Symbols which are really ZERO REAL PRODUCTION, they are not cars which is REAL PRODUCTION) and working make believe jobs, go figure.
    And the system is tuned and optimized to eliminate jobs, and all of the Innovation and Research and “More education” will only serve to eliminate as many jobs as possible, the system’s real goal is to kill jobs, kill ever more jobs by using robots, automation, optimization, by using “Innovation” to find “new ways to produce” and do things “with less cost” hence, somewhere down the line with less jobs, ever fewer, and in fact this is the real sign of progress and value of all of our Innovation, Technology, Research and Education: how many more jobs can you hack, how much more can you achieve with fewer and fewer people needing to be paid, how much more profit can the few hands governing the production process hog up, by killing ever more jobs.
    And yet, all the economists, politicians, thinkers, you name it keep on chanting the fairy tale of “job creation”, “less taxes will create jobs, “more education and innovation will create jobs”, you name, the more false and idiotic the relationship the more they chant it and believe in it. Incredible, our present Technological Economy, and in the future ever more, has absolutely nothing at all to do with jobs, and will have ever less to do with jobs and ever more to do with simple Status Relationships, Power Relationships, just pure power, who owns and controls what, who can hog money on one side or another, independent of any “effort”, or “hard work” or “jobs” all the 18th century thinkers love to keep on blattering.
    Just 1 trillion dollars of debts (and the USA, EU and JAPAN have more than 20 trillions of dollars that must be “paid back”) to be paid back must be equivalent to 10 million jobs being paid 10,000 dollars a year for 10 years: exactly what manipulations, what informational or physical transformations will those “new jobs” imply ? Exactly what input -> manipulation -> output will 10 million people do 8 hours a day, everyday, for ten years that is equivalent to that 10,000 dollars a year salary (which by the way, is a very high salary worldwide) will they do ? Nobody ever answers, nobody knows, everyone bvelieves the “Invisible Hand of the Market” will “create them”, the same hand that is hosing as many possible jobs as it can to increase profit, go figure.
    We need Scott Free Handouts, 800 dollars a month to billions of people worldwide and cheap rents, 200 dollars a month to rent a 3 bedroom house all over the world, AMEN. And huge public – private projects, TRILLIONS OF SKYSCRAPERS, TRILLIONS OF ROCKETS TO MARS, WHAT I HAVE BEEN REPEATING FOREVER, BUT NO ONE IS LISTENING, AND NO ONE IS DOING WHAT I DEMAND, DO IT JACKASSES ! JUST DO IT ! GIVE ME MY SCOTT FREE HANDOUT AND TRILLIONS OF SKYSCRAPERS AND ROCKETS TO MARS. JESUS CHRIST, I CAN’T BELIEVE WHAT IDIOTS THE GOVERNMENTS OF THIS WORLD ARE!
    nameta9
    Philosopher
    Posts: 1193
    Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

  404. old69 December 29, 2011 at 11:23 am #

    Some corrections for your thesis:
    The Myth of “JOBS”
    Actually, come to think about it, our present society, system, economic system has nothing at all to do with jobs and work at all ! It is mostly independent of “Jobs” and “Work”, doesn’t even need “Jobs” and “Work” and needs to “create Jobs” and “Jobs” and “Work” in general like a hole in the head.
    Many just can’t cram it in their thick heads that our present Technological Economy doesn’t need more jobs, more work, doesn’t create more jobs and work, needs more than anything else, consumerism and consumers, needs options and games, needs ever more free time to waste on options and games and wild consumption because the system produces free production by the boatloads, produces and can potentially produce way more than can ever be consumed by the boatloads. Just think, how can there be so many trillions of dollars floating around in the world banks and all, when so few people do any real work at all, most are just producing fluff (all the Information Workers, producing Symbols which are really ZERO REAL PRODUCTION, they are not cars which is REAL PRODUCTION) and working make believe jobs, go figure.
    And the system is tuned and optimized to eliminate jobs, and all of the Innovation and Research and “More education” will only serve to eliminate as many jobs as possible, the system’s real goal is to kill jobs, kill ever more jobs by using robots, automation, optimization, by using “Innovation” to find “new ways to produce” and do things “with less cost” hence, somewhere down the line with less jobs, ever fewer, and in fact this is the real sign of progress and value of all of our Innovation, Technology, Research and Education: how many more jobs can you hack, how much more can you achieve with fewer and fewer people needing to be paid, how much more profit can the few hands governing the production process hog up, by killing ever more jobs.
    And yet, all the economists, politicians, thinkers, you name it keep on chanting the fairy tale of “job creation”, “less taxes will create jobs, “more education and innovation will create jobs”, you name, the more false and idiotic the relationship the more they chant it and believe in it. Incredible, our present Technological Economy, and in the future ever more, has absolutely nothing at all to do with jobs, and will have ever less to do with jobs and ever more to do with simple Status Relationships, Power Relationships, just pure power, who owns and controls what, who can hog money on one side or another, independent of any “effort”, or “hard work” or “jobs” all the 18th century thinkers love to keep on blattering.
    Just 1 trillion dollars of debts (and the USA, EU and JAPAN have more than 20 trillions of dollars that must be “paid back”) to be paid back must be equivalent to 10 million jobs being paid 10,000 dollars a year for 10 years: exactly what manipulations, what informational or physical transformations will those “new jobs” imply ? Exactly what input -> manipulation -> output will 10 million people do 8 hours a day, everyday, for ten years that is equivalent to that 10,000 dollars a year salary (which by the way, is a very high salary worldwide) ? Nobody ever answers, nobody knows, everyone believes the “Invisible Hand of the Market” will “create them”, the same hand that is hosing as many possible jobs as it can to increase profit, go figure.
    We need Scott Free Handouts, 800 dollars a month to billions of people worldwide and cheap rents, 200 dollars a month to rent a 3 bedroom house all over the world, AMEN. And huge public – private projects, TRILLIONS OF SKYSCRAPERS, TRILLIONS OF ROCKETS TO MARS, WHAT I HAVE BEEN REPEATING FOREVER, BUT NO ONE IS LISTENING, AND NO ONE IS DOING WHAT I DEMAND, DO IT JACKASSES ! JUST DO IT ! GIVE ME MY SCOTT FREE HANDOUT AND TRILLIONS OF SKYSCRAPERS AND ROCKETS TO MARS. JESUS CHRIST, I CAN’T BELIEVE WHAT IDIOTS THE GOVERNMENTS OF THIS WORLD ARE!

  405. anti soak December 29, 2011 at 11:24 am #

    noteable quote:
    More importantly, Jerry – asoka., sometimes known as “the resident impediment” is twisting and spinning YOUR words, Jerry – to impede dialog.

    thanks P2C!
    years ago Qtip noted the same.

  406. ozone December 29, 2011 at 11:31 am #

    “…But rackets as grand and insolent as these would not be possible, except in a culture so estranged from truth that anything goes over without notice.” -JHK
    Speaking o’ which, how do the markets manage to be (year-to-date) UP with these looming specters?:
    “Here’s a little overview of the year-to-date performance of some of the major global banking stocks on December 29, 2011, before the opening bell:
    BofA: -60.38%
    Citi: -44.76%
    Goldman Sachs: -46.41%
    JPMorgan: -23.03%
    Morgan Stanley: -45.24%
    RBS: -50%
    Barclays: -34.32%
    Lloyds: -63.02%
    UBS: -29.33%
    Deutsche Bank: -28,55%
    Crédit Agricole: -56.04%
    BNP Paribas: -37.67%
    Société Générale: -59.57%”
    (From today’s Automatic Earth.)
    http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2011/12/december-29-2011-trends-2012-end-of.html
    Might there be some shadowy “fiddling” going on behind the curtain?

  407. JonathanSS December 29, 2011 at 11:37 am #

    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
    George Santayana

    Thanks for the memories. I remember laughing at people sitting in gas lines in the 70’s as I rode my bicycle past them. Ever since reading TLE, I’ve arranged things so that I am not directly dependent upon a car. Of course, since I don’t grow 100% of my own food, I’m indirectly dependent upon our current transport system.

  408. Rhino December 29, 2011 at 11:59 am #

    Asoka has to explain how letting in millions of desperate job seekers and adding to the already existing millions of desperate job seekers (when our corporate titans were offshoring millions of jobs) is in any way in the interest of people immigrating. Or in the interest of those already here.
    What’s that you’re saying? These immigration policies depress wage rates in the US?
    What else? It relegates millions of newcomers to shit jobs earning shit pay? Not like in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s when jobs were plentiful?
    So what do you figure? Who benefits? What’s that you say? The people that benefit from depressed wage rates and desperate job seekers are the top 1%? And Wall Street?
    By GeorgeI think you’re onto something here.
    I guess the question for our friend Asoka is why is he advocating for the interests of Wall Street and the top 1%?
    The question is also what is Asoka’s interest in advocating these immigration policies.
    Maybe Asoka should explain himself. Because what he advocates is seriously fucking up a lot of people’s lives.

  409. rippedthunder December 29, 2011 at 12:03 pm #

    Curtain? What steekin’ curtain? Pay no attention to those men /women behind the curtain. It’s all good people! The only fiddlin’ I want to hear is “Papa John Creach”

  410. Buck Stud December 29, 2011 at 12:05 pm #

    Vlad,
    I am being quite serious here. Since you feel so strongly about your cause, and you consistently invoke the qualities of courage, honor, bravery as it pertains to the “White Race”, why not spread your message from your own blog? You have an unwavering passion and commitment to the cause of “the White Race” – it’s basically all you write about. In fact, you dominate the rap, Jack, week after week, month after month here on CFN. Due to your dire assessment of the “the numbers” and white decline, the cause you constantly champion is in urgent need of a voice with a certain literary charisma along with an idiosyncratic mode of articulation and who better than you Vlad? You would have a built-in audience willing to follow you from CFN. And on those very slow first days, when the cause seems dire, Anti-Soak would eagerly drop to his knees and perform fellatio on your ego.
    You can do it Vlad. Remove the mask of anonymity just as Robert The Bruce did. Leave forever behind the seat of the second floor balcony from which you safely hurl your racial epithets and come forth into the spotlight to man the podium of White glory. And just think of the Teutonic female groupies who would drool over the white highlight on your long forehead…never again would you have another lonely night here on CFN.
    As you constantly mention it looks bad for the “White Race”, Vlad. Surely the cause requires your strength of conviction along with your tailor-made skills to match in the age of the internet. I am going to miss your writing but now is the time for to start taking yourself seriously Vlad. The “White Race” is depending on you.

  411. rippedthunder December 29, 2011 at 12:07 pm #

    Charleston, SC? Try the Ocala, FL region. Talk about a CLF. I’ll take rural New England any day over those cesspools.

  412. Widespreadpanic7 December 29, 2011 at 12:19 pm #

    Pucker right now Obama is staying in a $10 million private residence during his 17 day South Pacific vacation. He doesn’t need our lousy $3.00.
    Hey Asoka how about if Tebow was praying to Vishnu or Buddha? Would that square it in your book?
    –WSP7

  413. ozone December 29, 2011 at 12:20 pm #

    lol!
    All due respect to Papa John, the “other” type of fiddlin’ going on behind said curtain is killin’ us by degrees. ;o)

  414. ozone December 29, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    Ps,
    Gun-smithing tools, eh?
    You’ll definitely have to show me how those be “fiddled” with! (Another skill I sadly lack.) :o)

  415. Widespreadpanic7 December 29, 2011 at 12:34 pm #

    Hey Alexandra from what I can gather you have your own problems over there in Britain every bit as vexing as ours. As a matter of fact, just yesterday I saw more video of bearded muslims in the center of London making incendiary public speeches about bringing down the British Government and invoking shariah law. And that’s just for starters. Maybe you should worry about that and not Sarah Palin, who, as far as I know, is not a candidate for any public office this election cycle.
    –WSP7

  416. Widespreadpanic7 December 29, 2011 at 12:43 pm #

    Pretty good post about Dixie, Ozone. It kinda reaffirms Jims portrait of the Southeast in TLE. That was written 7 years ago and it is most likely worse now.
    –WSP7

  417. wagelaborer December 29, 2011 at 12:51 pm #

    “And the ruling class will never share.
    So it’s time for OWS, etc, to truly stand up for the working class and oppose further immigration.”
    Um, that would be the difference between you and me, Prog.
    My solution to a greedy ruling class who are destroying the ecosystem and the lives of millions of humans is to slap their greedy little hands and tell them – “No, bad overlords! No more cookies!”
    You’d do it to a greedy 2-year old, but faced with insatiable greed in adults, your choice is to turn on people worse off than you, so as to get their .05% share, instead of stopping the greedy from taking 80% of the wealth.
    I find that weird. There is no way that I would suggest that to the Occupy movement, or the Green Party.
    Sorry.

  418. Widespreadpanic7 December 29, 2011 at 12:53 pm #

    RipT
    Gun smithing tools. Lucky you!! That’s what I call a gift. Nothing like them except perhaps jewelers tools. Precision screwdrivers, brass hammers, a small vice, a micrometer or two … It can run into some money so you have to accumulate that stuff over time. But it lasts forever. I’ve done some shade tree gun smithing myself. Strictly an amateur, you understand, but a nice way to spend in the back on a summer day.
    –WSP7

  419. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 1:01 pm #

    So we have take from the rich and give to the illegals? Mexico has very strict immigration laws. As does every other viable nation. But as a Commie, you don’t like nations to begin with…

  420. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 1:06 pm #

    Sorry you’re so filled with hate that you use quotation marks to describe your own people. That is truly sick. A people who don’t really exist don’t have any rights either. And you may have noticed that our rights are increasingly defined in terms of groups not individuals. And I’m sure if you were a minority you would have mentioned it by now. So you bite your nose to spite my face.
    Better buy a skull at an art supply store and start practicing.

  421. wagelaborer December 29, 2011 at 1:12 pm #

    No, Vlad.
    You know that’s not what I’m saying.
    I’m saying that the profit motivated system is not working for us. Not for the 1%, and now not for the .09%, as Max Keiser points out that they are now firing brokers, and John Corzine stole money from the .09%, to give to the .01%.
    They are eating their own, but first they are destroying us, and the ecosystem we depend on for life.
    We need to democratize and localize and downsize.
    I’m actually not real hopeful. As Martin Luther King, Jr. pointed out years ago, sometimes in human history there is such a thing as “too late”.
    It just may be too late.
    But people like you are impediments to building a better society, because you are so twisted by hate and fear.
    But there are millions like you, carefully taught to hate and fear by the corporate media, especially Fox News.
    Too bad. We had a great country.

  422. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 1:17 pm #

    In Britain, an estimated 180 pensioners died every day last winter from the cold – the highest rate in Northern Europe. Now since young White Couples wait for years to get housing but immigrants from South Asia get housing within weeks of arrival, I wonder which elderly people are falling thru the cracks? I bet it’s old White People, right?
    You people are practicing a stealth genocide.
    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/cold-kills-180-british-pensioners-a-day-during-winter.html

  423. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 1:24 pm #

    You don’t believe we had a great country. That’s BS. I hope you’re sincere about keeping the aliens out and honoring the local. But after all your talk about Libya, granny having 14 abortions, etc – who knows what you really believe. Marxism is profoundly anti-local, anti-individual, anti-nation, anti-White, etc.
    I’m for Ron Paul, who is hated by the Fox Neo-Cons. He’s not perfect – doesn’t understand borders, etc but he seems to be his own man.

  424. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 1:28 pm #

    Check this out: English Veteran and girlfriend kill themselves – couldn’t take another winter of freezing. They fell thru the system while the Muslims have masses of kids on the backs of the English People. Alexandra and her Ilk have alot to answer for.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2059238/Army-veteran-Mark-Mullins-wife-Helen-driven-suicide-poverty.html

  425. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 1:32 pm #

    Slap their greedy little hands? Or crush their hands in vises? Or put bamboo splinters under their fingernails and light them? Or smash their hands with a sledge hammer?
    All Communist methods of social discipline for “Capitalist Pigs” and devout Christians.

  426. anti soak December 29, 2011 at 1:58 pm #

    She says Im a ‘Bircher’ [meant as an insult]
    who lives in a fantasy land,
    see our posts earlier this week if ya care to!

  427. anti soak December 29, 2011 at 2:00 pm #

    Ill watch Maher when hell freezes or he draws cartoons online that mock mohamed!

  428. anti soak December 29, 2011 at 2:03 pm #

    You never cease to amaze me..
    how do you know all this stuff?
    Do you stay online24/7?
    Its to get worse Vlad….the poverty, immigrants, world population, get whitey attitude..
    you can read it here, from whites yet!

  429. anti soak December 29, 2011 at 2:09 pm #

    maybe koch and george will split the American pie..
    50/50..
    BYE BYE AMERICAN PIE~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Soros Monitor
    http://www.sorosmonitor.com/
    There are three billionaires, George Soros, Peter Lewis and John Sperling who have … You see, if you buy Progressive auto insurance, when you send in you
    AND Buck Stud happy holidays,you ahole.

  430. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 2:09 pm #

    Well they could just “BE” or be God. Or so alot of people think who don’t have much feel for subject, have big egos, or have had bad experience with organized religion and are thus stuck in reaction. Anyway, after that clarification I think we’re on the same page but we’d have to talk for awhile to see how each of us use certain terms, etc.
    I’m amazed at the reactions I get sometimes from Liberals from the most innocuous commonsensical things like “Past behavior is the best indicater of present and future behavior”. Wtf? From their reaction you would have thought I had just given my endorsment of determinism or predestination in going to hell. I mean what the fuck do they believe? That people are free or all equally free? The smarter and more informed you are, the more you can fight propaganda and those who seek to program you. The more aware you are, the more you are able to fight your own blind reactions and emotional complexes. You’d think Dale at least would undertand these things. But no.

  431. anti soak December 29, 2011 at 2:16 pm #

    The ‘Alexandras’ of the free world are merely lobsters in a pot of ever warming water.
    Her finger pointing [at us in the repub-lukan USA]
    wont save her in the end.
    Indeed if she yells ‘stupid paki’ she may end up like Emma West……..check her rant on youtube.
    Its priceless…you too f-kstud ..check it out.

  432. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 2:17 pm #

    I have good servants: White Nationalist sites provide me mostly all I need to know. The Men’s Rights site the The Spearpoint is very good too. The Vault tells me what I need to know about possible Earth Changes and Federal outrages.
    I don’t get around to good sites like World Net Daily, Drudge, or What really happened, etc – except when the Vault links to them. Go to Alex Jones now and then.
    My brother sent me these horrific links about the elderly freezing to death in the U.K.

  433. anti soak December 29, 2011 at 2:18 pm #

    ‘laughing at people sitting in gas lines in the 70’s’
    yes, but food travels 200 miles to yr table.
    Its no laughing matter.

  434. ozone December 29, 2011 at 2:26 pm #

    Well, sorry that’s not gonna work out for him (and, by proxy, us), but when it’s your [admittedly, lousy] JOB to splatter fecal matter all over a blog in an attempt to drive people away gagging in disgust and horror, there’s just NO TIME to become a blo[g]viating hero!
    The chimp must Fling away, fling away. Being a traitor to your country and its’ people is hard work, but hey, it’s a paycheck. (Were I he, I’d start a campaign to outlaw streetlights; entirely too handy when found to be in the pay of the MIC.)

  435. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 2:43 pm #

    Wage supports Jill Stein – “green” candidate in favor of open borders. A dummy in other words.

  436. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 2:45 pm #

    Paranoia thy name is Ozone. Chimps? Cheetah was gay for Johnny Weismuller. Happy now?

  437. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 2:50 pm #

    These people are positively Zany. Ozone reminds me of Lucille Ball.
    Jill does a bit of soft folksinging I believe. With her little bespeckled mousey face and soft voice and surrounded by all the good people with their strange fixed smiles, it’s quite a rockin’ scene. Ozone, you should do a duet with her.

  438. Alexandra December 29, 2011 at 3:54 pm #

    Vladdie dearest, me thinks you doth white race demise, bleat too much, and really I know I should resist in even bothering to answer you… but then again it is the season for sharing!
    UK based muslim and ethnic visitors do not hog all our social services, like Sarah Palin, you’re most fond of relaying half-truths… we have a smug 110% whiter than white shade of work-shy pale faces, nay in-bred St. George flag clad under-class for that, whom claim free state benefits as a ‘lifestyle’ choice. These people, much like yourself ‘shout’ loudest about their collective lack of privileges…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1303439/Benefits-couple-claiming-30-000-11-children-ANOTHER-way.html
    Our biggest city suburbs are besieged with them… so if a handful of dumb white folk, choose to opt out by committing suicide, or freezing to death, or getting wasted on booze & drugs, well at least it starts to take the pressure off our to date exponentially increasing UK welfare debt burden payment system…
    And it doesn’t take a racial supremacist clairvoyant type of even the lowest iQ to accurately predict that a lot of very lazy, ill-fed, low grade white folk will increasingly fall of the cliff edge, in fact it will be the same deal for such types no matter which OECD they be currently based in… the free lunch period is for sure most over.
    Ditto… also the to date free British NHS healthcare system too, it will be a pestilent disease ridden chaotic débâcle in less than a decade, with most antibiotics still available hopelessly inadequate in fighting the virals running free reign amongst the worn-torn wards. Quality doctors will have long fled to what will be a booming private sector.
    Free anything in fact will increasing be avoided like the plague by those that can, but will be by decrepit default the very last resort of option for those too ill equipped to cope, can nots.
    BTW you’d be amazed at how many white folk I know in the UK that are still doing very nicely thank you. Though its true most would be Country Alliance voters, and have an equine bent for sure, much like my beloved sister does. Yes we were both out with the local hunt on Boxing Day… so it does always make me pi## my pants when you accuse me of being a bleeding heart liberal…
    *sniggers*
    Be seeing you…

  439. wagelaborer December 29, 2011 at 3:56 pm #

    The thing about the white race mixing with the other races and becoming a minority next century (as if everything will just hum right along as usual here in the USA-not!), is that we will all be dead, and the people that will be here will be mixed and will find nothing wrong with that.
    So why all the angst about the future in which you will not live?
    Huh? Asia, Marlin and Vlad? What’s the big deal?
    In one hundred years, there will be all different people on this planet, than there are now.

  440. Eleuthero December 29, 2011 at 4:02 pm #

    Absalom said:
    Eleuthero, why don’t you cite your sources, instead of suggesting others embark on a wild Google goose chase to support your view for you?
    ********************************************
    You’re just another windbag who LIVES on this site and who, like Asoka, demands “sources”. Go find them yourself. I’ve looked them up ten times over and have no use for assholes like you who refuse to admit the obvious: That crime in various communities (black, Hispanic, Muslims in Europe) are absurdly high.
    Don’t bug me junior. You’re just another dumb liberal waster. You’re the kind of guy who would demand I find “sources” for the most sublimely obvious facts. Do you demand proof that I need oxygen to breathe?
    You’re another nattering Asoka … every time an opinion is uttered that’s not to your liking you demand that other posters supply footnotes. If you don’t know, PRIMA FACIE, that Muslims in Europe (and blacks and Hispanics in America) are committing an incredibly disproportionate percentage of violent crime, then you cannot find your own ass with both hands.
    Do your own legwork. Gawd … that’s all this fucking site needs is another Asoka who writes 100-200 posts per week and who requires “sources” for obvious and uncomfortable facts. I’ve seen your clones on blogs a thousand times over. Your next tactic will probably be to bog down discussions about “definitions” of obvious words.
    Get lost or stolen.
    E.

  441. Buck Stud December 29, 2011 at 4:07 pm #

    The quotations marks do not denote hate for the “white race”; they merely indicate differing interpretations. Your interpretation is one race in a monolithic goose step; mine is something far closer to reality.
    When are you going to realize that “The Ideal” is nothing but a breathless pose waiting for the curtain to drop? People of all stripes have lives to live and living a life implies co-mingling.
    I notice you did not step up to the plate for your precious white race in peril. Oh well, the white race’s loss is my gain. And now that we know that you’re not that serious about the cause you continually banter on about, I can enjoy your posts for what they are: Seal with a ball on his nose entertainment.

  442. anti soak December 29, 2011 at 4:07 pm #

    OK, BUT from Brits I speak to UK is in a dire depression and admitting 1 or 2 MILLION immigrants a year? NO?
    Also you lousy Brits are not welcome in our Visa Lottery.
    CHEERS!
    RE: ‘dumb white folk’…Gee methinks the gal protest a bit too much. Check the mirror for’dumb white folk’.

  443. anti soak December 29, 2011 at 4:09 pm #

    In the long run ..we are all dead.
    Whats the point yr making?
    If its that Im against mixed marriages, No..never stated that here or anywhere.

  444. ABSALOM December 29, 2011 at 4:44 pm #

    Just another duck, dodge, and sidestep. You have nothing Eleuthero. You are an in-effectual never was, a bitter community college instructor at best, never an erudite as you claim.
    Statistics for crime are always greater for those concentrated at one end of the socioeconomic spectrum. There are explicable reasons for this, but arguments of racial superiority or inferiority based on such statistics are non-starters. Don’t be sad E, DISCERNING readers of this blog now see the pathetic, scared little man that you are.
    Consider your LEGS chopped, or lost or stolen, if it serves your forever bruised ego. I’ve dispatched you either way.
    ABSALOM

  445. anti soak December 29, 2011 at 5:02 pm #

    Why then do 1 in 3 [or 4] Black males have at least one felony while say 2 generations ago [40 years] US Black males did not?
    ‘Statistics for crime are always greater for those concentrated at one end of the socioeconomic spectrum. There are explicable reasons for this’
    Such as?

  446. anti soak December 29, 2011 at 5:04 pm #

    Great post E but Abs is here, perhaps for the long term.

  447. anti soak December 29, 2011 at 5:11 pm #

    I like this post so I saved in it a word doc on my laptop…maybe Abs and Alexandra can have tea in a bad part of London…where Sharia is indeed the law.

  448. anti soak December 29, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    The courts say reinterpret the Obvious until its
    uh..something more to their liking.
    OK you white nazi?

  449. Hancock1863 December 29, 2011 at 5:34 pm #

    You said to ProgorCons…

    My solution to a greedy ruling class who are destroying the ecosystem and the lives of millions of humans is to slap their greedy little hands and tell them – “No, bad overlords! No more cookies!”
    You’d do it to a greedy 2-year old, but faced with insatiable greed in adults, your choice is to turn on people worse off than you, so as to get their .05% share, instead of stopping the greedy from taking 80% of the wealth.

    You know, ever since my new understanding of human evolutionary biology and the fact that it basically reduces most or all sweeping human activity (particularly at the 0.01% level) to the base level of 5 year old children squabbling on a playground, it is stunning how modern hypercomplexity can be factored out and reduced like an algebra equation until something simple remains. “x=4”
    As regards to your comment to ProgorCons, the answer is amazingly simple, childish and play-groundian. It also applies to the vast vast VAST majority of humanity (likely including me and a vast majority, if not all, CFNers) and clearly explains yet another aspect of 8000 years of human history.
    Simply put: Angry people lash out at the poor and the weak in response to being robbed, injured, or otherwise subjected to blatant injustice by the 0.01% Aristocracy, because it’s the easiest way not to get hurt or otherwise inconvenienced.
    In a general, overarching societal sense, it sure is easy to beat up on the poor and weak, physically, economically, psychologically and any other way. Doubly so, since the “bandwagon effect” combined with this near-universal human trait swiftly musters legions of authoritarian followers and others who want to strike at their tormentors, but also don’t want to get hurt or battle in a close contest against other “strong” people, like Richie Rich and his Army of Mercenary Meatheads, plus the usual assortment of Tony Baloney corrupt LE.
    This provides the illusion of action and retribution against torment and injustice, while at the same time STRENGTHENING the aristocratic tormentors responsible in the first place.
    It happens over and over and over again with such universal predictability that it seems certain that JHK’s dream of plebian revolution againt our “betters” is just that…a dream with no basis in historical reality, an absolute outside longshot of the 100 to 1 order versus the virtual certainty that if and when the American Subjects ever wake up, they will be pointed toward their murderous mission with Fox Newsian ease, most never asking a question or having a troubling thought, which they will medicate away with both psychiatric drugs and Corporate-State-Propaganda, if such unhappy thoughts should come up inadvertantly.
    I mean, what’s the alternative? Fighting someone who fights back? Fuhgeddaboudit.
    As it always was, it will continue to always will be, apparently, until we barely evolved monkeys destroy ourselves, be it in 100 or 10,000 years.
    I cannot predict the final shape of the trend here in the former USA. The only thing I can say about the Final Destination (or Solution, if you will) the former USA seems certain to be headed is that it will have much better PR to grease the wheels of it’s homeland murder machine, once it gets up and truly running.
    We won’t explicitly murder our victims, we’ll just set them up to die, then let them. Then, as with the Native Americans to whom “Love, American style” was first practiced upon, the 0.01% and their legions of slavish followers will curse and denigrate the dead as having deserved their fate, those lazy bastards.
    “Them Liberals and poor people die off so often at the Comcast AT&T HappyTimes FunTwinks Economic Sanctuary Zone because they are lazy and aren’t used to work.”
    Hannity, if he’s still around, should have a lot of fun with that one.
    That, and the national fleet of yellow schoolbusses. Something about that keeps flittering around my head, knowing our RW Corporate Socialists can’t use rail cars to transport prospective “clients” to the “Economic Sanctuary Zones” because their predecessors, the RW German National Socialists, spoiled the PR on that move.
    But yellow schoolbuses are diesel and therefore made for TLE as they can be run on biodiesel. They also carry warm childhood rememberences for a vast majority of the American Subject Populace. Not to mention the color yellow has some very soothing and positive psychological connotations for most people, and that’s a PR coup that can’t be sold short, just ask any Neuromarketer.
    NOT to ProgorCons: This is not a personal slight on you personally, it just so happens that Wage made the comment to you which caught my eye. It could have just as easily been someone else. So, please don’t go to the time and trouble of reaffirming your bravery or willingness to fight TPTB to me, because my reply was about masses of people, not individuals.
    ProgorCons, I do agree generally with your immigration views, but that is not germane to this aspect of the discussion.

  450. Hancock1863 December 29, 2011 at 5:39 pm #

    Whups. My second-to-last paragraph meant to say “NOTE to ProgorCons:”

  451. Hancock1863 December 29, 2011 at 6:02 pm #

    One last postscript…
    Yes, there have been a very few exceptions to this mass psychology of humanity. The American, Russian, French, and Chinese Revolutions plus the Haiti Slave Rebellion.
    That FIVE in EIGHT THOUSAND YEARS of what has essentially been a giant Slave Labor Camp for 99% or more of people who ever lived, probably more when considering the whole shebang.
    And let’s not forget, the Russian Revolution begat Stalin, the French Revoltuion begat Napoleon, the Chinese begat Mao and the Haitians, well, they never had a chance. For delivering their one shining blow to European Aristocratic Monsters, their nation was punished and stunted without let up to this very day.
    And the American Revolution? Look how that’s ending up. Right back to the 1376 Feudal Europe, we go! Right back to rule by power and not law, mass inequality, mass injustice, the tragedy of the commons, and millions of lives destroyed in wars that are no more than a posionous combination of ruthless machiavellian resource grabs and the old-timey Aristocratic games of grab-ass with we Peasants as the toy soldiers and bullet-shields.
    Personally, I’d rather be a Colonist in 1768 than be an American Subject in 2100. It’s a virtual certainty that the Colonist had more freedom than the poor bastards in 2100 will have, plus no ubiquitous surveillance, corrupted Corporate-State-Run-Media or Police State Bully Rule.

  452. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 6:14 pm #

    You deserve to freeze/starve in an unheated apartment – the same fate to which you so gaily consign your own people. I’d pay money to see that, you worthless Snigger Nigger. The Anglo/American upper class will go down as the among the worst in human history – right up there with the Russian Communist Inner Party.

  453. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 6:19 pm #

    Your lack of loyalty for your own Race – the Race whose hard work, daring, and courage in battle enabled you to have a chance at a good life simply staggers me. Listening to Lena Horn or Bobby Brown isn’t give you back the soul that you’ve lost.
    Co-mingle? Why don’t you buy a house for $50 in the middle of Detroit and write about your co-mingling experiences you jackass.

  454. wagelaborer December 29, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    See, Vlad, when I accused you of watching Fox News, you denied it, and I accepted your word and apologized for assuming it.
    You don’t have the integrity or honesty to do the same. (Must be those superior White morals?)
    Instead you make things up, terrible, disgusting things, attribute them to me and then berate me.
    Actually, I would never slap a 2 year old. I don’t believe in child abuse. I was talking to Prog, who is a southerner. Southerners are prone to casual brutality towards their children, and, even if Prog doesn’t himself, I knew that he would get the reference.
    I wouldn’t even give a 2 year old cookies. Only organic, stone-ground, whole wheat flour baked goods, naturally sweetened.
    Duh.

  455. DeeJones December 29, 2011 at 6:25 pm #

    Blah-blah-Blah-blah-Blah-Blah….

  456. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 6:28 pm #

    Well obviously those born “mixed” might not find anything wrong with it – but think of the hideous life the poor White Woman lived, fallen so low and having to live in ghetto with people who mostly despised her.
    It’s only now in our decay that White People accept the mixed. In functioning civilizations, such as China, Japan, and Korea – they are tabu and are persecuted.
    That’s how these Civilizatons have lasted thousands of years. Do you really think they would last or continue to “be” China, Japan, or Korea if they allowed millions of Blacks in? You have no understanding of the subtleties that create Civilizations. All you can see is bread and soup. Civilization is a thing of the Spirit.

  457. wagelaborer December 29, 2011 at 6:29 pm #

    And what is it with Christians and their fascination with torture and abuse?
    Mel Gibson’s movie, The Passion of Christ, was said to be almost pornographic in its sado-masochism. The Left Behind books and video cover in savage detail the travails that their Lord and Savior will inflict on the heretics, gays and liberals.
    Is the unseemly fascination with hurting people the reason why so many prominent Christians are found to frequent prostitutes with their kinky persausions?
    And glory in the death and destruction that they visit upon people in other countries?
    There is something really wrong with that.

  458. Vlad Krandz December 29, 2011 at 6:31 pm #

    You deny Communists have done all these things? Duh yourself.
    For the record: I do watch Fox News. I practice the art of discerment, carefully separating their wheat from their chaff. Of course sometimes they just disgust me – no mention at all of turning America into a battlefield and the new right to inter citizens. None.

  459. Buck Stud December 29, 2011 at 6:37 pm #

    ” Your lack of loyalty for your own Race – the Race whose hard work, daring, and courage in battle enabled you to have a chance at a good life simply staggers me. ”
    My lack of loyalty? You’re the one too chickenshit to go public and defend the honor of the “Great White Race”. Daring and courage in battle, and yet Vlad Krandz curls up in the far corner of the internet, a quivering heap afraid to walk the talk he extolls.
    You’ve been unmasked coward, noW put that ball back on your nose and get back to entertaining me…SNAP TOO!

  460. wagelaborer December 29, 2011 at 6:37 pm #

    Yes, people are depressingly easy to manipulate.
    Have you seen the movie “The Century of the Self”?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IyPzGUsYyKM
    A fascinating explanation of how we got to this predicament.

  461. wagelaborer December 29, 2011 at 6:44 pm #

    OK, then you lied before.
    Honesty is a virtue, Vlad.
    I daresay it’s more of a virtue than pride in your skin color.

  462. anti soak December 29, 2011 at 6:48 pm #

    So Terminator, Rambo are unpopular in Asia,
    it being a Non Christian place?
    I understand yr fingerpointing but have to disagree.

  463. progress2conserve December 29, 2011 at 6:51 pm #

    Wage –
    This discussion has been a complete set of non sequiturs to me – so I had to look back midstream, and see what you were trying to tell me.
    “Dee and I don’t believe any of that. We see that immigration serves the interests of the ruling class, not the rest of us. And therefore, that immigration will be allowed.”
    -wage-
    So, OK, WageLaborer says that immigration serves the interest of the ruling class. She argues that “immigration will be allowed,” as an unstoppable force, willed into existence by the ruling class of the United States or perhaps the ruling class of the Entire World.
    Then, our Wage, who’s very existence is devoted to opposing the Ruling Class – responds to my question as to why OWS or the California Green Party shouldn’t change their stance and support reductions in immigration:
    “I find that weird. There is no way that I would suggest that to the Occupy movement, or the Green Party.
    Sorry.”
    -wage-
    I’m sorry too, Wage. You are on record, here on CFN as, kinda-more-or-less, being opposed to high immigration into the US. I think.
    But you don’t think the Greens or OWS should oppose high immigration.
    And YOU are the one who convinced me that there is power in group action.
    Did you change your mind on immigration?
    Or what? What gives?

  464. wagelaborer December 29, 2011 at 6:54 pm #

    100 years ago you wouldn’t have been accepted into the KKK, you Catholic heathen.
    Look how standards have fallen! And yet, you never complain about that.
    You constantly proclaim the intellectual superiority of the the white race, yet, of the racists here, only you can white a coherent sentence.
    Neworld, antisoak and julietta are barely coherent at their best.
    And yet, like the herd animal that you, as a human, are, you align yourself with them. It’s pathetic, really.
    The only one who can write intelligibly is Marlin, who usually presents himself as a good ol’ boy with an unhealthy fascination with guns, but occasionallly his Tourette’s Syndrome kicks in, and he spews some racist rant that shocks the more genteel on this blog.
    The funny thing about him is, he’s not white. He says he’s Portugese, married to a Spaniard.
    He’s not one of us, Vlad.

  465. wagelaborer December 29, 2011 at 7:04 pm #