Morality exists because consequences exist. Period.
True morality ~ doing what is right without the threat of divine retribution nor the possibility of divine reward.
We're animals. Our moralities are based on our species' survival. Nothing more but nothing less either. Combine that aspect with our vivid imaginations and presto! Religions are invented.
“The Bible; an ancient novel full of murder, corruption, homophobia, bestiality, incest and cruelty. Most often read to children on Sundays.” - Unknown author
As far as the Bible goes, no-one would believe these fantastical stories if they hadn't been born into a world full of people who already believed the same thing.
If a Jew, Christian or Muslim woke up tomorrow and found himself in a world where there were no other believers, how soon would it be before they became too embarrassed to admit to believing in such things as flying horses and talking snakes?
They'd rightly be thought insane.
The Bible was written from multiple sources.
But a political dynasty oversaw the compiling and editing of those sources at the Council of Nicaea.
That there was power and wealth to be derived from consolidating the fables into a single book calls it into question. Motivation was huge to mislead and deceive.
Also, the Romans at the time of Jesus, were meticulous record keepers. Historians and archaeologists have unearthed huge amounts of text written at that time. There is not one mention of anybody resembling Jesus, his healing magic, his supposed talents and powers, or his trial and crucifixion in any official Roman record.
The Bible is at best a compilation of previous Pagan mythology.
Why does it bother you so for some to profess a belief and then to be an absolute ass about it?
Let them believe smile nod and go along with what little in your life is purpose.
There belief does not affect your life one bit.
Its not like they are trying to ram carbon and vat taxes down your throat and destroy your way of life.
Or does them professing their belief make you realize how hollow your own life really is or is it some personal pass time that others would say is engaging in immoral behavior?
Well, there was Tacitus. And Josephus. And some other guy.
Sure, Tacitus wrote about Jesus and his trial and conviction via Pilate about 80-100 years afterward, so of course he would have never met Jesus in person. But then, he wouldn't have met Tiberius or Pilate in person either, and he wrote about them with the same surety.
As for the rest of your comment(s) on the subject, hard to argue. I'd just mention that no one (not one, ever) actually knows what the hell took place in lifetimes lived before us. But it doesn't mean accounts that are passed down are all untrue.
e.g. We had lizards roaming the earth at one time. Hey - the bones keep turning up. But no matter the science put into proving this or that about them, no one actually knows anything about them, how they lived, or when. Carbon dating is as flawed as the Council of Nicaea. And no one today professes to believe in dragons (that's all myth!), but we clearly had ginormous freaking lizards walking and flying at some point. So...in many ways, almost all archeology and history is a guessing game and a puzzle to be sorted by how each of us sees the world and trusts historical accounts, and the tools we have available to us when looking at it.
Letters from Pilate have been discovered, written to Tiberias, discussing his unease with the Jesus phenomenon in Judea. Lucanus, a Greek physician was a biographer of Jesus, along with John Mark. Both never knew or met Jesus, yet wrote biographies of his ministry that closely paralleled Matthew and John. Josephus followed closely behind.
Non-believers refuse to believe in anything bigger than themselves.
Dennis, you’re unbelief is it’s religion for which you clearly have need to proselytize. You hold many misconceptions about biblical texts.
Now that you’ve seemed to master the brilliance of Hitchens, I suggest you take on Aquinas for an opposing viewpoint.
Summa Theologiae
“We purpose in this book to treat of whatever belongs to the Christian religion, in such a way as may tend to the instruction of beginners. We have considered that students in this doctrine have not seldom been hampered by what they have found written by other authors, partly on account of the multiplication of useless questions, articles, and arguments, partly also because those things that are needful for them to know are not taught according to the order of the subject matter, but according as the plan of the book might require, or the occasion of the argument offer, partly, too, because frequent repetition brought weariness and confusion to the minds of readers.”
If you can walk away from the Summa thinking Aquinas a person lacking in the use of “critical thinking” for “willful ignorance,” you might want to see a professional for treatment of delusions of grandeur, my friend…
"Don't try to debate me; I'm an expert Christian..."
Surely there's Bible scripture about arrogance that you're breaching oh mighty expert with YOUR delusions of grandeur.
It's the all-loving omnibenevolent Gods desire to save sick babies.
Baby lives ~ God is amazing, and prayer works.
Baby dies ~ it was God's will and we aren't meant to know or understand the reasons these things happen.
It's in accordance with his plan you see. The baby was meant to die.
So, what purpose does prayer have?
This surely and precisely sums up the Christianity hoax, doesn't it?
GOD CAN'T LOSE!
A philosophical argument for God and a ham sandwich combined are worth slightly less than a ham sandwich, Granny. You and Aquinas can have as many philosophical arguments for “God” as you like, it doesn't change the fact that there's no evidence that there is one.
Cankerpuss my friend, faith is the deliberate refusal to think critically and the glorification of willful ignorance that follows.
And religion is the permission slip to set aside truthful thought.
Christopher Hitchens destroys the myth that morality comes from religion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG-JLmc4Krw
Morality exists because consequences exist. Period.
True morality ~ doing what is right without the threat of divine retribution nor the possibility of divine reward.
We're animals. Our moralities are based on our species' survival. Nothing more but nothing less either. Combine that aspect with our vivid imaginations and presto! Religions are invented.
“The Bible; an ancient novel full of murder, corruption, homophobia, bestiality, incest and cruelty. Most often read to children on Sundays.” - Unknown author
The Bible shows man as he really is and why he needs a Savior.
As far as the Bible goes, no-one would believe these fantastical stories if they hadn't been born into a world full of people who already believed the same thing.
If a Jew, Christian or Muslim woke up tomorrow and found himself in a world where there were no other believers, how soon would it be before they became too embarrassed to admit to believing in such things as flying horses and talking snakes?
They'd rightly be thought insane.
The Bible was written from multiple sources.
But a political dynasty oversaw the compiling and editing of those sources at the Council of Nicaea.
That there was power and wealth to be derived from consolidating the fables into a single book calls it into question. Motivation was huge to mislead and deceive.
Also, the Romans at the time of Jesus, were meticulous record keepers. Historians and archaeologists have unearthed huge amounts of text written at that time. There is not one mention of anybody resembling Jesus, his healing magic, his supposed talents and powers, or his trial and crucifixion in any official Roman record.
The Bible is at best a compilation of previous Pagan mythology.
Why does it bother you so for some to profess a belief and then to be an absolute ass about it?
Let them believe smile nod and go along with what little in your life is purpose.
There belief does not affect your life one bit.
Its not like they are trying to ram carbon and vat taxes down your throat and destroy your way of life.
Or does them professing their belief make you realize how hollow your own life really is or is it some personal pass time that others would say is engaging in immoral behavior?
+1 @Ben_r, well said.
Enough of the ad hominen attacks my friend.
There truly is no hate quite like Christians Love!
Religious folk prove every day that arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand.
BTW, God hasn’t spent a moment with me. We haven’t done a single activity together.
I’ve never heard a God’s voice or shaken a God’s hand.
Never had a “God” come and help me mow the lawn or fix dinner after a hard day.
Or comfort me when my wife was very ill.
Or bring me jumper cables when my car would not start.
My fellow humans have made infinitely more effort to be a part of my life and give it meaning than any “God” has.
How foolish would it be for me to say that this absentee “God” is what gives my life meaning?
But if you want to bask in self-imposed victimhood over something happening between your ears, no one can stop you.
Ad homs no that was the simple truth.
As well as some advice that might help what little passes as sanity in the progressive cult.
Well, there was Tacitus. And Josephus. And some other guy.
Sure, Tacitus wrote about Jesus and his trial and conviction via Pilate about 80-100 years afterward, so of course he would have never met Jesus in person. But then, he wouldn't have met Tiberius or Pilate in person either, and he wrote about them with the same surety.
As for the rest of your comment(s) on the subject, hard to argue. I'd just mention that no one (not one, ever) actually knows what the hell took place in lifetimes lived before us. But it doesn't mean accounts that are passed down are all untrue.
e.g. We had lizards roaming the earth at one time. Hey - the bones keep turning up. But no matter the science put into proving this or that about them, no one actually knows anything about them, how they lived, or when. Carbon dating is as flawed as the Council of Nicaea. And no one today professes to believe in dragons (that's all myth!), but we clearly had ginormous freaking lizards walking and flying at some point. So...in many ways, almost all archeology and history is a guessing game and a puzzle to be sorted by how each of us sees the world and trusts historical accounts, and the tools we have available to us when looking at it.
Letters from Pilate have been discovered, written to Tiberias, discussing his unease with the Jesus phenomenon in Judea. Lucanus, a Greek physician was a biographer of Jesus, along with John Mark. Both never knew or met Jesus, yet wrote biographies of his ministry that closely paralleled Matthew and John. Josephus followed closely behind.
Non-believers refuse to believe in anything bigger than themselves.
Dennis, you’re unbelief is it’s religion for which you clearly have need to proselytize. You hold many misconceptions about biblical texts.
Now that you’ve seemed to master the brilliance of Hitchens, I suggest you take on Aquinas for an opposing viewpoint.
Summa Theologiae
“We purpose in this book to treat of whatever belongs to the Christian religion, in such a way as may tend to the instruction of beginners. We have considered that students in this doctrine have not seldom been hampered by what they have found written by other authors, partly on account of the multiplication of useless questions, articles, and arguments, partly also because those things that are needful for them to know are not taught according to the order of the subject matter, but according as the plan of the book might require, or the occasion of the argument offer, partly, too, because frequent repetition brought weariness and confusion to the minds of readers.”
PS to Dennis:
If you can walk away from the Summa thinking Aquinas a person lacking in the use of “critical thinking” for “willful ignorance,” you might want to see a professional for treatment of delusions of grandeur, my friend…
"Don't try to debate me; I'm an expert Christian..."
Surely there's Bible scripture about arrogance that you're breaching oh mighty expert with YOUR delusions of grandeur.
It's the all-loving omnibenevolent Gods desire to save sick babies.
Baby lives ~ God is amazing, and prayer works.
Baby dies ~ it was God's will and we aren't meant to know or understand the reasons these things happen.
It's in accordance with his plan you see. The baby was meant to die.
So, what purpose does prayer have?
This surely and precisely sums up the Christianity hoax, doesn't it?
GOD CAN'T LOSE!
A philosophical argument for God and a ham sandwich combined are worth slightly less than a ham sandwich, Granny. You and Aquinas can have as many philosophical arguments for “God” as you like, it doesn't change the fact that there's no evidence that there is one.
Take care my dear
We aren’t animals. We have free will.
“Yes, I have free will; I have no choice but to have it.” - Christopher Hitchens.
LOL Think about it Granny!
Why don’t animals have free will?