Thanks for your comment as I am in the exact same situation with some friends and even my adult children.
The saddest thing is that there is no way we an ever win the argument with these deluded fools simply because there is no objective basis, no facts that both sides can rely on to make our points.
Thanks for your comment as I am in the exact same situation with some friends and even my adult children.
The saddest thing is that there is no way we an ever win the argument with these deluded fools simply because there is no objective basis, no facts that both sides can rely on to make our points.
If I tell my sister that there are probably 20 million illegals that have been brought in, she simply says that BS, not true. I can cite any number of articles, videos, etc. and she says, nope, all lies.
Same thing with the adult children, now in their 50s when I argue with them about phony man made "climate change." I can provide them with articles from some of the top physicists, engineers, scientists in the world that prove "climate change" is a hoax and CO2 is actually necessary for life on earth, but they say, not that's all bogus, those are not "real" scientists.
And the beat goes on.....
I think it was also Mark Twain who said that it's hard to win an argument with a smart person, impossible to do so with a stupid on.
Yuri Bezmenov, a KGB defector in the 80's, said that such people were inured to facts, and that no amount of facts would break through the indoctrination, and that they would only see the truth when the boot was to the balls or they were lined up against the wall to be shot.
Yup 100% correct. Read The Indoctrinated Brain by Dr Michael Nehls. He explains how the covid fear campaign and accompanying forced injections literally rewired many people's brains.
That is the very definition of a demoralized person: they will never change their position based on new information, but will change it immediately on the mere say-so of their “experts,” entirely without critique and often without even realizing their position has changed.
Those work well enough as synonyms, except for ignorance which is a different condition and more easily cured. There is hope for the ignorant that doesn’t exist for the demoralized.
Perfect description of our college campuses today. Those that run them believe themselves to be safe from the coming massacre because they fancy themselves elitists.
I refuse to discuss anything with them. There isn’t a point to it any longer. Everyone’s minds are made up. I doubt there are many undecided any more. There will be no coming together. Especially now that conservatives are done with giving an inch and liberals taking miles.
I have a friend who has a friend like that. No amount of facts can get through the indoctrination. At some point, you just have to cut bait and let them wallow in their delusion.
I lost my two "best mates", had 'em for 40 years but the glare from my tinfoil hat drove them crazy 🤷 one is now dead, 2 months after the 1st booster, his son, 17, survived the 2nd jab, in ICU, but no longer can play sport. Heart. My Dad wouldn't hear me, 3 jabs, then he got Convid, sent home from hospital coz "he's old". He lived... 7 more weeks until the turbo cancer got him.
The "legacy media" is extraordinarily powerful. Look at the mainstream media of 1930s Germany. They had very, very many Germans enthralled with Nazism. Today we look at those old newsreels and shake our heads.
I'm in the same boat as you. My son is reasonably intelligent except about politics and things that will affect his children, my grandchildren. On almost all issues he's bought into the Leftist pap. There is no reasonable discussion about anything. We practically came to blows last Thanksgiving. Since then, I don't discuss any politics or world view with him. Last I heard, his wife is supporting Kamala because " she's a woman." That moronic shit petrifies me. I'll be dead, as that's where us old dinosaurs are heading. But I worry about the world that my grandchildren will have to navigate after I'm gone. What weird guidance will their parents give them? Will they "wise up" after I'm dead? Here's to wishful thinking....
Dennis- Sad to say, I think it's this way for many of us "old timers" who are conservatives whose adult children have gone to the dark side, aka the DemonRats.
In my case, it is really incomprehensible how my kids (in their 50s) can be the most wonderful parents, citizens, neighbors, sons and daughters, yet be so f***** up when it comes to their political beliefs!
My grandchildren are growing up with way more than their parents had, including a stable family life which ours wasn't due to alcoholism and substance abuse issues.
I am very proud that their parents/ my children grew up to be so stable and productive in spite of everything. So I rack my brain wondering what the hell happened that causes these otherwise smart people to have "Harris/Walz" signs on their lawns??
Signs that I feel like tearing down and stomping on every time I stop by their homes!
By the way, there is one other thing that bothers me even MORE than the political stuff, something that is absolutely tragic, and that is the lack of religion and spirituality in their lives. This is one of my great heartbreaks- that my grandchildren have no idea about God, a Higher Power, a Creator, something greater than we are.
Religion is even more of a forbidden topic than politics and I am reduced to speaking with the grands when we are by ourselves, trying to instill in them the idea that the beauty we see all around us is not an accident, that there is a Creator who presides over all.
At this point I am feeling pretty hopeless because my influence is so insignificant as to be non-existent.
So my best solution has been over the years, to pray for them and ask the Good Lord to watch out for them, take care of them and maybe grant them the wisdom to see the error of their ways.
Yes, NYNanny, I agree with you 100% wholeheartedly! Sounds like practically a carbon copy of most all that you mention. The religion thing, so true, and it's possibly my fault as maybe I did not my emphasize my thoughts on God and religion enough. But ,as you say, it seems the lone answer, short of a miracle, is prayer.
Dennis- over the years I have tried in my own small ways, to teach my grandchildren about a Higher Power whom I call God.
As we hiked through the beautiful woods I would tell them that what they were seeing is not some accident but the work of a Creator who made all things great and small.
Sad to say that I have been no match for I-phones, TV, the media, etc. so I continue to keep them all in my daily prayers.
It's great you have the opportunity to do that. Unfortunately my eldest grandson is autistic. Communication is a definite challenge. He fixates on things, ever since he was small. We don't connect on most things, lately it's been classic cartoons. He's a very good artist., and I try to encourage that. He's just entering into puberty, which is proving to be a landmine, with the times we live in today. But I take what I can get with him, always hopefully engaging. His younger brother, in my opinion, is possibly on the spectrum, but he's still quite young yet, so I don't know what road that will lead to. Unfortunately God is probability a concept that is completely foreign to them. Possibly, in the future, it may come up, but I just don't know. Thank you for being an inspiration, keep it up, and may God bless you and yours.
You are a believer that God is the Giver, the entity that provides for us.
I wonder, as the evil pervades DC and the clamoring for power intensifies, have the next generations moved away from God as the provider and now think that the State is the Great Provider. Do they vote as they do because they think they are protecting their access to wealth, the government. I wonder how they will feel when the bill collector comes looking for the 36 trillion in debt their State provider owes and that they will have to pay up? Who will they look up to then?
God? From what I have read, the youngest of us is starting to realize what a joke the government is and are looking for options for their belief system. There is hope.
"A sentence that is either true or false, but not both, is called a (logical) proposition.",
I had to stop and take a break. That sentence made me realize that almost everything my grandmother and mother had said over the years was opinion masquerading as fact.
This is the M.O. of ideologues. Because of their arbitrary treatment of opinion as fact, there is no basis for logical argument when dealing with them.
Thanks for your comment as I am in the exact same situation with some friends and even my adult children.
The saddest thing is that there is no way we an ever win the argument with these deluded fools simply because there is no objective basis, no facts that both sides can rely on to make our points.
If I tell my sister that there are probably 20 million illegals that have been brought in, she simply says that BS, not true. I can cite any number of articles, videos, etc. and she says, nope, all lies.
Same thing with the adult children, now in their 50s when I argue with them about phony man made "climate change." I can provide them with articles from some of the top physicists, engineers, scientists in the world that prove "climate change" is a hoax and CO2 is actually necessary for life on earth, but they say, not that's all bogus, those are not "real" scientists.
And the beat goes on.....
I think it was also Mark Twain who said that it's hard to win an argument with a smart person, impossible to do so with a stupid on.
Yuri Bezmenov, a KGB defector in the 80's, said that such people were inured to facts, and that no amount of facts would break through the indoctrination, and that they would only see the truth when the boot was to the balls or they were lined up against the wall to be shot.
Wow that is painful to think of. 'Indoctrination' is absolutely the correct word.
Yup 100% correct. Read The Indoctrinated Brain by Dr Michael Nehls. He explains how the covid fear campaign and accompanying forced injections literally rewired many people's brains.
That is the very definition of a demoralized person: they will never change their position based on new information, but will change it immediately on the mere say-so of their “experts,” entirely without critique and often without even realizing their position has changed.
Demoralized? How about insane. Ignorant? Stupid? Gullible? Hide-bound?
Those work well enough as synonyms, except for ignorance which is a different condition and more easily cured. There is hope for the ignorant that doesn’t exist for the demoralized.
Yes. Only when they get kicked on their fat bottom he said.
Perfect description of our college campuses today. Those that run them believe themselves to be safe from the coming massacre because they fancy themselves elitists.
I refuse to discuss anything with them. There isn’t a point to it any longer. Everyone’s minds are made up. I doubt there are many undecided any more. There will be no coming together. Especially now that conservatives are done with giving an inch and liberals taking miles.
Conservatives will continue to invent plenty of creative, clever ways to lose and/or humiliate themselves. Don't worry.
Ryan - Troll - dumb lib. Will learn the hard way
I have a friend who has a friend like that. No amount of facts can get through the indoctrination. At some point, you just have to cut bait and let them wallow in their delusion.
I lost my two "best mates", had 'em for 40 years but the glare from my tinfoil hat drove them crazy 🤷 one is now dead, 2 months after the 1st booster, his son, 17, survived the 2nd jab, in ICU, but no longer can play sport. Heart. My Dad wouldn't hear me, 3 jabs, then he got Convid, sent home from hospital coz "he's old". He lived... 7 more weeks until the turbo cancer got him.
I see dead people.
Holy Crap, I'm so sorry for your position. OMG!
You are describing the life blood of MSNBC and CNN. Stupidity!!!!
The "legacy media" is extraordinarily powerful. Look at the mainstream media of 1930s Germany. They had very, very many Germans enthralled with Nazism. Today we look at those old newsreels and shake our heads.
I'm in the same boat as you. My son is reasonably intelligent except about politics and things that will affect his children, my grandchildren. On almost all issues he's bought into the Leftist pap. There is no reasonable discussion about anything. We practically came to blows last Thanksgiving. Since then, I don't discuss any politics or world view with him. Last I heard, his wife is supporting Kamala because " she's a woman." That moronic shit petrifies me. I'll be dead, as that's where us old dinosaurs are heading. But I worry about the world that my grandchildren will have to navigate after I'm gone. What weird guidance will their parents give them? Will they "wise up" after I'm dead? Here's to wishful thinking....
Dennis- Sad to say, I think it's this way for many of us "old timers" who are conservatives whose adult children have gone to the dark side, aka the DemonRats.
In my case, it is really incomprehensible how my kids (in their 50s) can be the most wonderful parents, citizens, neighbors, sons and daughters, yet be so f***** up when it comes to their political beliefs!
My grandchildren are growing up with way more than their parents had, including a stable family life which ours wasn't due to alcoholism and substance abuse issues.
I am very proud that their parents/ my children grew up to be so stable and productive in spite of everything. So I rack my brain wondering what the hell happened that causes these otherwise smart people to have "Harris/Walz" signs on their lawns??
Signs that I feel like tearing down and stomping on every time I stop by their homes!
By the way, there is one other thing that bothers me even MORE than the political stuff, something that is absolutely tragic, and that is the lack of religion and spirituality in their lives. This is one of my great heartbreaks- that my grandchildren have no idea about God, a Higher Power, a Creator, something greater than we are.
Religion is even more of a forbidden topic than politics and I am reduced to speaking with the grands when we are by ourselves, trying to instill in them the idea that the beauty we see all around us is not an accident, that there is a Creator who presides over all.
At this point I am feeling pretty hopeless because my influence is so insignificant as to be non-existent.
So my best solution has been over the years, to pray for them and ask the Good Lord to watch out for them, take care of them and maybe grant them the wisdom to see the error of their ways.
My grandchildren
Yes, NYNanny, I agree with you 100% wholeheartedly! Sounds like practically a carbon copy of most all that you mention. The religion thing, so true, and it's possibly my fault as maybe I did not my emphasize my thoughts on God and religion enough. But ,as you say, it seems the lone answer, short of a miracle, is prayer.
Dennis- over the years I have tried in my own small ways, to teach my grandchildren about a Higher Power whom I call God.
As we hiked through the beautiful woods I would tell them that what they were seeing is not some accident but the work of a Creator who made all things great and small.
Sad to say that I have been no match for I-phones, TV, the media, etc. so I continue to keep them all in my daily prayers.
It's great you have the opportunity to do that. Unfortunately my eldest grandson is autistic. Communication is a definite challenge. He fixates on things, ever since he was small. We don't connect on most things, lately it's been classic cartoons. He's a very good artist., and I try to encourage that. He's just entering into puberty, which is proving to be a landmine, with the times we live in today. But I take what I can get with him, always hopefully engaging. His younger brother, in my opinion, is possibly on the spectrum, but he's still quite young yet, so I don't know what road that will lead to. Unfortunately God is probability a concept that is completely foreign to them. Possibly, in the future, it may come up, but I just don't know. Thank you for being an inspiration, keep it up, and may God bless you and yours.
Dennis- thanks for your kind words. Best wishes to you as well.
NY Nanny
What you said!!!!!
You are a believer that God is the Giver, the entity that provides for us.
I wonder, as the evil pervades DC and the clamoring for power intensifies, have the next generations moved away from God as the provider and now think that the State is the Great Provider. Do they vote as they do because they think they are protecting their access to wealth, the government. I wonder how they will feel when the bill collector comes looking for the 36 trillion in debt their State provider owes and that they will have to pay up? Who will they look up to then?
God? From what I have read, the youngest of us is starting to realize what a joke the government is and are looking for options for their belief system. There is hope.
My sister is the type of person that will argue that the sky isn't blue if I say it is.
She is a Demo-Commie although she's a RINO as far as voter registration.
Talking to her about politics is like putting your head in a blender.
Putting one's head in a blender is sadly very descriptive of how it is to argue with an ideologue.
+1 The day I read in a discrete mathematics book:
"A sentence that is either true or false, but not both, is called a (logical) proposition.",
I had to stop and take a break. That sentence made me realize that almost everything my grandmother and mother had said over the years was opinion masquerading as fact.
This is the M.O. of ideologues. Because of their arbitrary treatment of opinion as fact, there is no basis for logical argument when dealing with them.
"the type of person that will argue that the sky isn't blue if I say it is" This type has always been very common. Start by saying,
"I know you will always object to every assertion I make"
"No, I won't"
🤣🤣🤣