It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so. Mark Twain
Everything you know is wrong.
The Firesign Theatre
Last week my dear friend John and I had what may have been the last of many years of weekly lunches together. Not for the first time, we had failed to keep every trace of poli…
It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so. Mark Twain
Everything you know is wrong.
The Firesign Theatre
Last week my dear friend John and I had what may have been the last of many years of weekly lunches together. Not for the first time, we had failed to keep every trace of political reference out of our reliably-avid conversation, and John can’t take it any more.
To be clear: I have no problem with vigorous, even strenuous debate, whether with friends or strangers. Having long ago rejected the Official Narrative about our country, I have had no choice but to either call bullshit or have to listen to it. But John, like so many liberals in these times, is a political snowflake – fragile, unique (or so he thinks) and easily threatened with melting.
This time I screwed up by mentioning that the evening before I had seen a clip of the first cabinet meeting held by Joe Biden in the year 2024. Seated at the side of a long table among the cabinet secretaries, he slurred the meeting to order, and immediately turned its management over (illegitimately) to Jill, at the table’s head.
John’s reaction was revealingly twofold: he doubted that what I reported had taken place (as if he couldn’t possibly fact-check it, himself) and interpreted my anecdote as a criticism of the Biden-Harris administration, which is to say an expression of opposition to having Kamala as President.
For those of us who have gradually learned over the course of years or decades that everything we are told is a lie, that the United States is not a Democracy, that those who rule us are unelected and can’t be deposed, these givens are a dismal fact of life, but not a revelation. For people like John, they are an appalling shock that can’t be reconciled with what they think they know about the world. For many, even parting company with old friends is preferable to having their comfortable, if illusory, world shattered.
Before reaching the sad conclusion that we can’t meet for lunch any more, John and I had several exchanges which were revealing. He said that he “can’t figure out what I believe” - which is silly, because every time I have ever tried to tell him what I believe he panics, and doesn’t want to hear it, because it is too threatening. He also insisted that he “is not a Democrat, but an Independent.”
This took me a bit longer to parse, because I already regarded both political parties as poison when I first became eligible to vote, and have been registered as an Independent for over a half century. For much of that time “Independent” was a fair description of my opposition to a succession of rotten presidents, from Nixon and W, to Clinton and Obama.
But the Reds and Blues have gradually coalesced into the Uniparty, necessarily distinguished by embracing different tenets of divisive identity politics, but in comfortable agreement over deficit spending, endless wars, and ever-increasing control of our lives as citizens.
John assiduously studies the mainstream media, believing that he has become “informed” by the likes of the NYT, WaPo, NPR, BBC, MSNBC, etc. As the computer geeks say, “Garbage In/Garbage Out.” If all you know is the narrative parroted in obedient unison by those tools of the Uniparty, you are independent of nothing.
If you had awakened yesterday after a century in suspended animation, and knew nothing of contemporary politics, it would be possible to construct a reasonably accurate worldview from harder-to-find independent media including, of course, James Kunstler’s invaluable blog. But how can an old man hope to have any clue about what the hell is going on, if his mind is already filled with a meticulously crafted false narrative, leaving no room for Truth?
It saddens me that I won’t get to visit with my friend over lunch this week, but our present rift has probably only hastened the inevitable by a month or so. Because if Mr. Trump prevails in next month’s election John won’t want to face reality; and, if we wake up to find that Kamala has been declared President, he damned sure will not want to hear what I have to say.
Thanks for your comment as I am in the exact same situation with some friends and even my adult children.
The saddest thing is that there is no way we an ever win the argument with these deluded fools simply because there is no objective basis, no facts that both sides can rely on to make our points.
If I tell my sister that there are probably 20 million illegals that have been brought in, she simply says that BS, not true. I can cite any number of articles, videos, etc. and she says, nope, all lies.
Same thing with the adult children, now in their 50s when I argue with them about phony man made "climate change." I can provide them with articles from some of the top physicists, engineers, scientists in the world that prove "climate change" is a hoax and CO2 is actually necessary for life on earth, but they say, not that's all bogus, those are not "real" scientists.
And the beat goes on.....
I think it was also Mark Twain who said that it's hard to win an argument with a smart person, impossible to do so with a stupid on.
Yuri Bezmenov, a KGB defector in the 80's, said that such people were inured to facts, and that no amount of facts would break through the indoctrination, and that they would only see the truth when the boot was to the balls or they were lined up against the wall to be shot.
Yup 100% correct. Read The Indoctrinated Brain by Dr Michael Nehls. He explains how the covid fear campaign and accompanying forced injections literally rewired many people's brains.
That is the very definition of a demoralized person: they will never change their position based on new information, but will change it immediately on the mere say-so of their “experts,” entirely without critique and often without even realizing their position has changed.
Those work well enough as synonyms, except for ignorance which is a different condition and more easily cured. There is hope for the ignorant that doesn’t exist for the demoralized.
Perfect description of our college campuses today. Those that run them believe themselves to be safe from the coming massacre because they fancy themselves elitists.
I refuse to discuss anything with them. There isn’t a point to it any longer. Everyone’s minds are made up. I doubt there are many undecided any more. There will be no coming together. Especially now that conservatives are done with giving an inch and liberals taking miles.
I have a friend who has a friend like that. No amount of facts can get through the indoctrination. At some point, you just have to cut bait and let them wallow in their delusion.
I lost my two "best mates", had 'em for 40 years but the glare from my tinfoil hat drove them crazy 🤷 one is now dead, 2 months after the 1st booster, his son, 17, survived the 2nd jab, in ICU, but no longer can play sport. Heart. My Dad wouldn't hear me, 3 jabs, then he got Convid, sent home from hospital coz "he's old". He lived... 7 more weeks until the turbo cancer got him.
The "legacy media" is extraordinarily powerful. Look at the mainstream media of 1930s Germany. They had very, very many Germans enthralled with Nazism. Today we look at those old newsreels and shake our heads.
I'm in the same boat as you. My son is reasonably intelligent except about politics and things that will affect his children, my grandchildren. On almost all issues he's bought into the Leftist pap. There is no reasonable discussion about anything. We practically came to blows last Thanksgiving. Since then, I don't discuss any politics or world view with him. Last I heard, his wife is supporting Kamala because " she's a woman." That moronic shit petrifies me. I'll be dead, as that's where us old dinosaurs are heading. But I worry about the world that my grandchildren will have to navigate after I'm gone. What weird guidance will their parents give them? Will they "wise up" after I'm dead? Here's to wishful thinking....
Dennis- Sad to say, I think it's this way for many of us "old timers" who are conservatives whose adult children have gone to the dark side, aka the DemonRats.
In my case, it is really incomprehensible how my kids (in their 50s) can be the most wonderful parents, citizens, neighbors, sons and daughters, yet be so f***** up when it comes to their political beliefs!
My grandchildren are growing up with way more than their parents had, including a stable family life which ours wasn't due to alcoholism and substance abuse issues.
I am very proud that their parents/ my children grew up to be so stable and productive in spite of everything. So I rack my brain wondering what the hell happened that causes these otherwise smart people to have "Harris/Walz" signs on their lawns??
Signs that I feel like tearing down and stomping on every time I stop by their homes!
By the way, there is one other thing that bothers me even MORE than the political stuff, something that is absolutely tragic, and that is the lack of religion and spirituality in their lives. This is one of my great heartbreaks- that my grandchildren have no idea about God, a Higher Power, a Creator, something greater than we are.
Religion is even more of a forbidden topic than politics and I am reduced to speaking with the grands when we are by ourselves, trying to instill in them the idea that the beauty we see all around us is not an accident, that there is a Creator who presides over all.
At this point I am feeling pretty hopeless because my influence is so insignificant as to be non-existent.
So my best solution has been over the years, to pray for them and ask the Good Lord to watch out for them, take care of them and maybe grant them the wisdom to see the error of their ways.
Yes, NYNanny, I agree with you 100% wholeheartedly! Sounds like practically a carbon copy of most all that you mention. The religion thing, so true, and it's possibly my fault as maybe I did not my emphasize my thoughts on God and religion enough. But ,as you say, it seems the lone answer, short of a miracle, is prayer.
Dennis- over the years I have tried in my own small ways, to teach my grandchildren about a Higher Power whom I call God.
As we hiked through the beautiful woods I would tell them that what they were seeing is not some accident but the work of a Creator who made all things great and small.
Sad to say that I have been no match for I-phones, TV, the media, etc. so I continue to keep them all in my daily prayers.
It's great you have the opportunity to do that. Unfortunately my eldest grandson is autistic. Communication is a definite challenge. He fixates on things, ever since he was small. We don't connect on most things, lately it's been classic cartoons. He's a very good artist., and I try to encourage that. He's just entering into puberty, which is proving to be a landmine, with the times we live in today. But I take what I can get with him, always hopefully engaging. His younger brother, in my opinion, is possibly on the spectrum, but he's still quite young yet, so I don't know what road that will lead to. Unfortunately God is probability a concept that is completely foreign to them. Possibly, in the future, it may come up, but I just don't know. Thank you for being an inspiration, keep it up, and may God bless you and yours.
You are a believer that God is the Giver, the entity that provides for us.
I wonder, as the evil pervades DC and the clamoring for power intensifies, have the next generations moved away from God as the provider and now think that the State is the Great Provider. Do they vote as they do because they think they are protecting their access to wealth, the government. I wonder how they will feel when the bill collector comes looking for the 36 trillion in debt their State provider owes and that they will have to pay up? Who will they look up to then?
God? From what I have read, the youngest of us is starting to realize what a joke the government is and are looking for options for their belief system. There is hope.
"A sentence that is either true or false, but not both, is called a (logical) proposition.",
I had to stop and take a break. That sentence made me realize that almost everything my grandmother and mother had said over the years was opinion masquerading as fact.
This is the M.O. of ideologues. Because of their arbitrary treatment of opinion as fact, there is no basis for logical argument when dealing with them.
Lost many friends and relationships with family members over this divide. I have had that lunch, too. I will leave it to your imagination to visualize which side had no problem getting ugly in their haste to slink back into the dark
I have a friend like that, too. I am going out "leaf peeping" with her tomorrow. It is funny how attracted she is to me at the same time thinking that I am wrong about everything. I find it interesting to see how her understanding of things evolves. Seems as though she just avoids thinking about certain things. I remember being like that myself, so I am not so judgmental. Plus, in her enormous favor, she did not abandon me during Covid. And plenty of people did.
You are learning the same lesson so many people do, eventually: Liberals and Humans just don't get along. I do not try to reason with these creatures; they lie like others breathe, and "moral relativism" governs their existence, and to them, everything is governed by an "ends justifies the means" mentality. These things honestly believe that lying, murder, corruption, and anything else you can conceive of is A-OK, because it all leads to communist Utopia, and any sacrifice is worthwhile to get there. The fact that such a Utopia doesn't exist, and never has, in all history doesn't matter to them: you see, this time they will get it right. . .
...and these fools also forget that in every case, once the psychopaths attain absolute power, they quickly EXTERMINATE the "useful idiots" who had helped them GET to power.
That's true, but in communist regimes, the people at the very top live lives of wealth, luxury, and power. Think about the folks who run North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela--the dictator, his immediate friends and family, his mistresses, and a handful of others in government live like royalty while their countrymen starve. So, some of the current leftist elites--think Hillary Clinton--expect to live even larger in a communist government than they do in the nominal democracy, what used to be a Democratic Republic, that governs this woke/broke/joke of a country. People can always fool themselves, pretending that "everyone ELSE will end up in a work camp, I will be the dictator's right-hand man".
As I see it, right now US citizens live in a Kleptocracy, we are governed by thieves who use their political positions to line their pockets. An obvious example would be Congresswoman Ocasio Cortez who went from working as a bartender to being worth over 30 million dollars after a few years in Congress. It's hard for me to feel sorry for my fellow citizens, as they are dumb enough to allow this to happen, in a sane country our government would have been forcibly overthrown decades ago, and in the government that replaced it corruption would have been monitored and swiftly punished. Trump, well, he stopped the bleeding, mostly, for 4Y and we had a temporary pause in the ongoing decline of this once-great nation. I support him and hope he wins again, but I think that another brief pause in the decline of the US is about all we can hope for. If Harris cheats her way into power instead, and again cranks up the printing press to devalue our currency, I would not be at all surprised to see a Hyperinflationary Dollar Collapse in the US, immediately followed by the end of civilization here. Think about it: if the Dollar became worthless at 7 a.m. on a busy weekday morning, grocery stores would be looted and burned by 9 a.m. Gun stores, gas stations, and pretty much every store would soon follow. I could see civilization here gone by 3 or 4 in the afternoon in a Dollar Collapse scenario, which I absolutely believe not only could happen, but will happen if we stay on course with print-and-spend.
I disagree. I think she is quite reasonable. Those like you who think she is a witch are just as bad as the "liberals" or "democrats" you probably rail against. Abortion is not a zero sum thing. You should know this. In some cases it is the absolutely right thing to do. If you can't see those cases then you are indoctrinated.
Well as Trump himself says, she is entitled to her opinion. Also, remember what field she was in before meeting Trump, I would imagine that abortions are wide spread in the modeling profession.
Perhaps I am an awful person, but I am committed to my own preservation. Most people I see in these comment threads were abandoned or rejected by their leftist friends. I did the opposite: I pre-emptively abandoned THEM.
When a couple friends turned into insane people during Covid, I just dropped them. Mentally ill people scare me, and these people had cracked and gone crazy. After two or three attempts to talk sense to them, I gave up.
When I feel guilty about that, I just remember the advice of Josh Slocum, whose specialty is Cluster B personality disorders. He said to ask yourself: If the country goes full Stalinist, would this person snitch on me to the authorities? If you have to hesitate even a moment before answering, DROP THAT PERSON FROM YOUR LIFE. Immediately and totally.
KATHY S - yes I agree used the same process. Don’t want them as friends - don’t trust them - they would hurt me to stay alive in their fantasy. Sorry - but F them I am too smart too strong and too independent to need those asshats around me.
That is exactly what I told my husband about several of our “friends” during Covid. They would snitch on us in a heartbeat. We still interact with them but are not true friends anymore. We we sad at first, but once we realize they would turn on us, the decision was easy.
Yes, exactly. I likewise cut a slew of people out of my life during the Covid/Vaxx attack. It was clear their critical judgment could no longer be taken seriously, while they were passing judgment on many others.
I can’t be friends with people I don’t respect. I know a lot of people I thought were smart who turned out not to be wise.
The bigger concern is what these fools are going to do, and allow to be done to us, when the next big horror show production gets dropped on us.
It's a combination of cognitive dissonance and what Ayn Rand aptly characterized as a "blank out." And that's the mildest case. Try telling your average shitlib that no nation ever taxed itself into prosperity. It will take them a few momentsnto process what you just said before they explode into paroxisms of spittle-flecked rage, hate and name-calling. Properly speaking, it's a psychotic break.
It's terrible, but I've seen it in my own family. I have a loved one who was a journalist and is still fanatically devoted to media. She spends all her time on internet forums worrying about Russia. When she used to still visit she would try to ask "gotcha" questions (she inevitably brings up politics, I do not) and then would get very angry, "panic" as you insightfully say, and tell me "well I guess I'm just not as smart as you" and then change the subject. She gave up seeing her only living family members in preference for websites like Democratic Underground and never having to hear a contrary opinion. I've tried to bridge the gap but it's a thankless task and it breaks my heart to see loved ones so caught up in anger, panic, know-nothingism. They had a lot to say about Q-Anon people, but these people have been high on their own supply since 2008 and now that it's running out it's getting tragic to see them avoiding a confrontation with themselves. I hope your friend chills out; he's giving up more than lunch, but a priceless connection to a living soul rather than another automaton.
I have thought over and over, WTF is going on here?
My answers, our politics , our beliefs are a big piece of our ego and especially super-ego. An attack on our politics is an attack on the deepest parts of ourselves. Think our where our beliefs come from, everything that affects our lives affects out beliefs. Crises that affect us turn us into Leftists or Rightists. One big one is if we are Haves or Have nots, whether we a winners or losers in the economy. Hidebound Leftists favor the tack that we take from the Haves and fire-distribute to the Have-nots. That violates a basic rule. “Thou Shall not steal.”
Another is access to power. This is a common thing for fence sitters, AKA independents or moderates. They are noted for switching sides depending on who is running things. The Bushes, Cheneys, are famous as well as Tulsi or RFK,Jr. IMHO, we are seeing a resetting of the spectrum location of both parties and a drift away from uniparty. The Deep State hates it and wants to kill the author of one side. Right now, 50% of the country is aligned, like your John, with the Deep State, which is extremist Left and Right. Both want the ascension of the State, everything else is secondary. The other 50% are aligned with folks that want the USA to stay as it was in the 1900s, strong, individualistic, and real. They are MAGA, not GOP. They are aligned with the Moderate right, people that want the State to keep their hands off everything, especially their money. The Deep State’s Prime Directive, thank you Star Trek, is preservation of the Deep State, to the detriment of the local issues, state issues, and most of all individual rights.
Clinton is an ass, now and always. She believes in the supremacy of the Deep State, period. The people be damned.
I wish to God that Trump would bolt on the Republican party and just go independent. Why he hasn't done that shocks me.
I wanna see that video of Hillary killing kids and drinking their blood. Apparently it's on the dark web somewhere, but I don't know how to access that kind of thing.
I fucking HATE, HATE, HATE Hillary Clinton. For too many reasons to list. If vigilante justice ever becomes legal, she is #1 on my hit-list.
No one ever liked HRC! Many Bill Clinton supporters didn’t like her either. A funny 1996 Weekend Update with Norm MacDonald reported that O.J. Simpson was endorsing Bill Clinton for president and that he offered that he would do anything to help him win. At that moment Norm quotes Bill saying, “Well, there is ONE thing…” and up comes HRC’s image on screen, haha. The audience laughter gives a good indication of what an ostensibly liberal audience of 1996 really thought of her. (It’s on yooootube somewhere) And it was justifiably downhill from there
I have wondered the same thing. Maybe because he has more friends in the Party than the big mouth RINOs. The RINOs will eventually leave the GOP as it dies and becomes MAGA.
Tee - I wouldn't mind being #1 on your list, but not that one. Anyway, the truth is, we live in a lawless country, Rule of Law is a joke. Look what they - fill in the blank - do so brazenly and with contempt for the law, and for us. I say vigilante justice is legal, and if HRC is ever within arm's reach, it's a good idea to remain vigilant.
I don't speak to my family and friends about political issues on which I know we strongly disagree. I want to keep my connections, and I don't trust people to be either tolerant or mature enough to respect a different perspective. It can get lonely, but at least I am still connected to people I want to remain connected to. Maybe this is self-serving of me? I know more about who they are than they know about me.
Have you ever seen North and South by John Jakes? A really good description of the emotions surrounding the 1850’s as the USA ripped itself apart. It is the story of two families, one in South Carolina and one in Pennsylvania, that were close due to the two leading men who were Army chums during the Mexican War. The war absolutely ripped them apart, but once over they healed. A good description of a Fourth Turning. We are there now as the narratives being discussed here are just another fore warning of what is coming. When spirituality breaks down between people, so do the relationships. When hatred becomes the basis instead of love, here comes CW2.
You have raised an important point: we can't escape knowing who they are, as obedient followers of the Official Narrative. We are obliged to stifle identifying openly with the truth and repudiating their false worldview in order to remain close to them. It's perverse, but true.
I've abandoned friendships, but I can't abandon family. Now if THEY were to abandon ME, that's a different matter. Thanks be to God, they have not done that.
You are facing the ultimate dilemma, Your two folks are dependent, need support and the place of last support is the government, so far. So they will favor the continued existence of that institution. IOW, vote Deep State.
What happens when that dries up, like what is happening in NC and Florida? Family steps in to help, if they can. If they can’t,
Right, Athens discovered that Democracy was just another form of totalitarianism but that the Mob was the dictator. Today, “Democracy” serves the Leftist side as they manipulate the Mob to their ends. The Mob destroyed Rome. My Late Father-in-Law used to say that a society is doomed when the “Democracy” folks discover they own the purse strings. I believe we are witnessing that right now.
Friends I've parted from - yes indeed, ipso facto.
But finally, at long last, my wife. She's a perfect example of your "[watches] the mainstream media, believing that she has become “informed” by the likes of [for her] the PBS Nightly News.
We knew we were not "on the same page culturally" since our pre-martial counseling, but we lasted for 34 years and two fine boys. As the saying goes, 'strange bedfellows'.
That is terribly sad. If Mr. Trump wins I can be gracious in victory. If Kamala gets in power I will have to prune anyone who willingly forfeits our constitutional rights from my friends list.
Just imagine having to watch that face, that mouth, those teeth and that cackle for four years as she destroys what is left.
Her ads are hideous, they are total lies, I have not seen one particle of truth in any of them. She is trying to pass herself off as a tax cutter, ho, ho , ho. Abortion? Unlimited license for murder. In Arizona, it is the border and abortion, period. Ruben Gallegos is clobbering Lake with abortion and is putting out the Dem line of bullshit about the border. Kamal wins? Who will really be in charge, as she knows nothing.
You know who. Everyone will say it's Soetoro, but it'll be the WEF and its flunkies in the plutocracy, with Jugeared Barry merely acting as their messenger.
"John assiduously studies the mainstream media, believing that he has become “informed” by the likes of the NYT, WaPo, NPR, BBC, MSNBC, etc. " ~ Howard Skillington
The solution is simple with those who claim to have an open mind. All you have to do is "plant a few seeds" that lead them to come to the realization that their sources of information are not providing them with an objective assessment, and therefore are not reliable sources for information.
For example:
Ask him if he is aware of the 2030 Agenda, and that under Joe Biden's leadership "The United States remains committed to accelerating development progress around the world and to fully implementing the ambitious, 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development and its Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs)". And if he is not knowledgeable about this, ask his why his news sources have not presented him with this information.
And in the case of Ukraine, try the following format:
As a person with an open mind, I am interested in viewing information which would counter that which I believe substantiates the claim that Putin/Russia did not start the conflict in Ukraine, but is merely representing the citizens of Russia.
This issue has the potential for WWIII. Are you aware of the Minsk agreements, and if not, are you interested in viewing, and countering, a perspective which I feel substantiates my belief?
If they respond in the affirmative, then provide them with a link to your source.
Jeffrey Sachs: The Untold History of the Cold War, CIA Coups Around the World, and COVID's Origin
If they are not interested in taking the time to review and refute your source of information, then surely they recognize that their incomplete perspective is meaningless, especially if it isn't subject to scrutiny.
"No poverty (SDG 1), Zero hunger (SDG 2), Good health and well-being (SDG 3), Quality education (SDG 4), Gender equality (SDG 5), Clean water and sanitation (SDG 6), Affordable and clean energy (SDG 7), Decent work and economic growth (SDG 8), Industry, innovation and infrastructure (SDG 9), Reduced inequalities (SDG 10), Sustainable cities and communities (SDG 11), Responsible consumption and production (SDG 12), Climate action (SDG 13), Life below water (SDG 14), Life on land (SDG 15), Peace, justice, and strong institutions (SDG 16), and Partnerships for the goals (SDG 17)."
fairy stories. Goals are, about by definition - challenges, yet can be visualized as attainable with focused effort. All those listed, I'm sure many would agree with.
The amount of money, and the effort and focus necessary to even begin to implement any of it, tells me one thing for certain...
Never gonna happen. Too many fucking humans involved.
Your suggestions are generous and sound, but John and others know that they can evade both evidence and reason with a lazy declaration of "I don't believe it." If I had coercive power over them I could require that they read your suggested list, or my own, and confront them with a mountain of evidence and documentation, but I have no such control and, in the end, the friendship is a casualty.
Whether it be the president of the United States of America, members of his cabinet, your family, or your friends, if they are not interested in having a congenial discussion with you about anything, aren't they telling you that they don't respect your opinion, and ultimately that they don't respect you?
Given such circumstances, is it worth your time to invest in that relationship?
I say, toss the "seeds" out there, and if they take root, you can avail yourself if they ever come around.
As for a president, isn't a primary task of good leadership to stand for scrutiny and explain to the population that which you are doing and why you are doing it?
There is a stark difference between the current options, and if this represents the population at large, then it suggests that the current system is played out. But, why would anyone want a deceitful/incompetent administration to preside over the implementation of a new format for life?
It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so. Mark Twain
Everything you know is wrong.
The Firesign Theatre
Last week my dear friend John and I had what may have been the last of many years of weekly lunches together. Not for the first time, we had failed to keep every trace of political reference out of our reliably-avid conversation, and John can’t take it any more.
To be clear: I have no problem with vigorous, even strenuous debate, whether with friends or strangers. Having long ago rejected the Official Narrative about our country, I have had no choice but to either call bullshit or have to listen to it. But John, like so many liberals in these times, is a political snowflake – fragile, unique (or so he thinks) and easily threatened with melting.
This time I screwed up by mentioning that the evening before I had seen a clip of the first cabinet meeting held by Joe Biden in the year 2024. Seated at the side of a long table among the cabinet secretaries, he slurred the meeting to order, and immediately turned its management over (illegitimately) to Jill, at the table’s head.
John’s reaction was revealingly twofold: he doubted that what I reported had taken place (as if he couldn’t possibly fact-check it, himself) and interpreted my anecdote as a criticism of the Biden-Harris administration, which is to say an expression of opposition to having Kamala as President.
For those of us who have gradually learned over the course of years or decades that everything we are told is a lie, that the United States is not a Democracy, that those who rule us are unelected and can’t be deposed, these givens are a dismal fact of life, but not a revelation. For people like John, they are an appalling shock that can’t be reconciled with what they think they know about the world. For many, even parting company with old friends is preferable to having their comfortable, if illusory, world shattered.
Before reaching the sad conclusion that we can’t meet for lunch any more, John and I had several exchanges which were revealing. He said that he “can’t figure out what I believe” - which is silly, because every time I have ever tried to tell him what I believe he panics, and doesn’t want to hear it, because it is too threatening. He also insisted that he “is not a Democrat, but an Independent.”
This took me a bit longer to parse, because I already regarded both political parties as poison when I first became eligible to vote, and have been registered as an Independent for over a half century. For much of that time “Independent” was a fair description of my opposition to a succession of rotten presidents, from Nixon and W, to Clinton and Obama.
But the Reds and Blues have gradually coalesced into the Uniparty, necessarily distinguished by embracing different tenets of divisive identity politics, but in comfortable agreement over deficit spending, endless wars, and ever-increasing control of our lives as citizens.
John assiduously studies the mainstream media, believing that he has become “informed” by the likes of the NYT, WaPo, NPR, BBC, MSNBC, etc. As the computer geeks say, “Garbage In/Garbage Out.” If all you know is the narrative parroted in obedient unison by those tools of the Uniparty, you are independent of nothing.
If you had awakened yesterday after a century in suspended animation, and knew nothing of contemporary politics, it would be possible to construct a reasonably accurate worldview from harder-to-find independent media including, of course, James Kunstler’s invaluable blog. But how can an old man hope to have any clue about what the hell is going on, if his mind is already filled with a meticulously crafted false narrative, leaving no room for Truth?
It saddens me that I won’t get to visit with my friend over lunch this week, but our present rift has probably only hastened the inevitable by a month or so. Because if Mr. Trump prevails in next month’s election John won’t want to face reality; and, if we wake up to find that Kamala has been declared President, he damned sure will not want to hear what I have to say.
Thanks for your comment as I am in the exact same situation with some friends and even my adult children.
The saddest thing is that there is no way we an ever win the argument with these deluded fools simply because there is no objective basis, no facts that both sides can rely on to make our points.
If I tell my sister that there are probably 20 million illegals that have been brought in, she simply says that BS, not true. I can cite any number of articles, videos, etc. and she says, nope, all lies.
Same thing with the adult children, now in their 50s when I argue with them about phony man made "climate change." I can provide them with articles from some of the top physicists, engineers, scientists in the world that prove "climate change" is a hoax and CO2 is actually necessary for life on earth, but they say, not that's all bogus, those are not "real" scientists.
And the beat goes on.....
I think it was also Mark Twain who said that it's hard to win an argument with a smart person, impossible to do so with a stupid on.
Yuri Bezmenov, a KGB defector in the 80's, said that such people were inured to facts, and that no amount of facts would break through the indoctrination, and that they would only see the truth when the boot was to the balls or they were lined up against the wall to be shot.
Wow that is painful to think of. 'Indoctrination' is absolutely the correct word.
Yup 100% correct. Read The Indoctrinated Brain by Dr Michael Nehls. He explains how the covid fear campaign and accompanying forced injections literally rewired many people's brains.
That is the very definition of a demoralized person: they will never change their position based on new information, but will change it immediately on the mere say-so of their “experts,” entirely without critique and often without even realizing their position has changed.
Demoralized? How about insane. Ignorant? Stupid? Gullible? Hide-bound?
Those work well enough as synonyms, except for ignorance which is a different condition and more easily cured. There is hope for the ignorant that doesn’t exist for the demoralized.
Yes. Only when they get kicked on their fat bottom he said.
Perfect description of our college campuses today. Those that run them believe themselves to be safe from the coming massacre because they fancy themselves elitists.
I refuse to discuss anything with them. There isn’t a point to it any longer. Everyone’s minds are made up. I doubt there are many undecided any more. There will be no coming together. Especially now that conservatives are done with giving an inch and liberals taking miles.
Conservatives will continue to invent plenty of creative, clever ways to lose and/or humiliate themselves. Don't worry.
Ryan - Troll - dumb lib. Will learn the hard way
I have a friend who has a friend like that. No amount of facts can get through the indoctrination. At some point, you just have to cut bait and let them wallow in their delusion.
I lost my two "best mates", had 'em for 40 years but the glare from my tinfoil hat drove them crazy 🤷 one is now dead, 2 months after the 1st booster, his son, 17, survived the 2nd jab, in ICU, but no longer can play sport. Heart. My Dad wouldn't hear me, 3 jabs, then he got Convid, sent home from hospital coz "he's old". He lived... 7 more weeks until the turbo cancer got him.
I see dead people.
Holy Crap, I'm so sorry for your position. OMG!
You are describing the life blood of MSNBC and CNN. Stupidity!!!!
The "legacy media" is extraordinarily powerful. Look at the mainstream media of 1930s Germany. They had very, very many Germans enthralled with Nazism. Today we look at those old newsreels and shake our heads.
I'm in the same boat as you. My son is reasonably intelligent except about politics and things that will affect his children, my grandchildren. On almost all issues he's bought into the Leftist pap. There is no reasonable discussion about anything. We practically came to blows last Thanksgiving. Since then, I don't discuss any politics or world view with him. Last I heard, his wife is supporting Kamala because " she's a woman." That moronic shit petrifies me. I'll be dead, as that's where us old dinosaurs are heading. But I worry about the world that my grandchildren will have to navigate after I'm gone. What weird guidance will their parents give them? Will they "wise up" after I'm dead? Here's to wishful thinking....
Dennis- Sad to say, I think it's this way for many of us "old timers" who are conservatives whose adult children have gone to the dark side, aka the DemonRats.
In my case, it is really incomprehensible how my kids (in their 50s) can be the most wonderful parents, citizens, neighbors, sons and daughters, yet be so f***** up when it comes to their political beliefs!
My grandchildren are growing up with way more than their parents had, including a stable family life which ours wasn't due to alcoholism and substance abuse issues.
I am very proud that their parents/ my children grew up to be so stable and productive in spite of everything. So I rack my brain wondering what the hell happened that causes these otherwise smart people to have "Harris/Walz" signs on their lawns??
Signs that I feel like tearing down and stomping on every time I stop by their homes!
By the way, there is one other thing that bothers me even MORE than the political stuff, something that is absolutely tragic, and that is the lack of religion and spirituality in their lives. This is one of my great heartbreaks- that my grandchildren have no idea about God, a Higher Power, a Creator, something greater than we are.
Religion is even more of a forbidden topic than politics and I am reduced to speaking with the grands when we are by ourselves, trying to instill in them the idea that the beauty we see all around us is not an accident, that there is a Creator who presides over all.
At this point I am feeling pretty hopeless because my influence is so insignificant as to be non-existent.
So my best solution has been over the years, to pray for them and ask the Good Lord to watch out for them, take care of them and maybe grant them the wisdom to see the error of their ways.
My grandchildren
Yes, NYNanny, I agree with you 100% wholeheartedly! Sounds like practically a carbon copy of most all that you mention. The religion thing, so true, and it's possibly my fault as maybe I did not my emphasize my thoughts on God and religion enough. But ,as you say, it seems the lone answer, short of a miracle, is prayer.
Dennis- over the years I have tried in my own small ways, to teach my grandchildren about a Higher Power whom I call God.
As we hiked through the beautiful woods I would tell them that what they were seeing is not some accident but the work of a Creator who made all things great and small.
Sad to say that I have been no match for I-phones, TV, the media, etc. so I continue to keep them all in my daily prayers.
It's great you have the opportunity to do that. Unfortunately my eldest grandson is autistic. Communication is a definite challenge. He fixates on things, ever since he was small. We don't connect on most things, lately it's been classic cartoons. He's a very good artist., and I try to encourage that. He's just entering into puberty, which is proving to be a landmine, with the times we live in today. But I take what I can get with him, always hopefully engaging. His younger brother, in my opinion, is possibly on the spectrum, but he's still quite young yet, so I don't know what road that will lead to. Unfortunately God is probability a concept that is completely foreign to them. Possibly, in the future, it may come up, but I just don't know. Thank you for being an inspiration, keep it up, and may God bless you and yours.
Dennis- thanks for your kind words. Best wishes to you as well.
NY Nanny
What you said!!!!!
You are a believer that God is the Giver, the entity that provides for us.
I wonder, as the evil pervades DC and the clamoring for power intensifies, have the next generations moved away from God as the provider and now think that the State is the Great Provider. Do they vote as they do because they think they are protecting their access to wealth, the government. I wonder how they will feel when the bill collector comes looking for the 36 trillion in debt their State provider owes and that they will have to pay up? Who will they look up to then?
God? From what I have read, the youngest of us is starting to realize what a joke the government is and are looking for options for their belief system. There is hope.
My sister is the type of person that will argue that the sky isn't blue if I say it is.
She is a Demo-Commie although she's a RINO as far as voter registration.
Talking to her about politics is like putting your head in a blender.
Putting one's head in a blender is sadly very descriptive of how it is to argue with an ideologue.
+1 The day I read in a discrete mathematics book:
"A sentence that is either true or false, but not both, is called a (logical) proposition.",
I had to stop and take a break. That sentence made me realize that almost everything my grandmother and mother had said over the years was opinion masquerading as fact.
This is the M.O. of ideologues. Because of their arbitrary treatment of opinion as fact, there is no basis for logical argument when dealing with them.
"the type of person that will argue that the sky isn't blue if I say it is" This type has always been very common. Start by saying,
"I know you will always object to every assertion I make"
"No, I won't"
🤣🤣🤣
Lost many friends and relationships with family members over this divide. I have had that lunch, too. I will leave it to your imagination to visualize which side had no problem getting ugly in their haste to slink back into the dark
They think of themselves as gentle and open-minded.
"Inclusive" (LOL)....except for all of us who they consider wrong. Ironic, no?
They will be living g in a dark world
I have a friend like that, too. I am going out "leaf peeping" with her tomorrow. It is funny how attracted she is to me at the same time thinking that I am wrong about everything. I find it interesting to see how her understanding of things evolves. Seems as though she just avoids thinking about certain things. I remember being like that myself, so I am not so judgmental. Plus, in her enormous favor, she did not abandon me during Covid. And plenty of people did.
Sorry about your friend.
You are learning the same lesson so many people do, eventually: Liberals and Humans just don't get along. I do not try to reason with these creatures; they lie like others breathe, and "moral relativism" governs their existence, and to them, everything is governed by an "ends justifies the means" mentality. These things honestly believe that lying, murder, corruption, and anything else you can conceive of is A-OK, because it all leads to communist Utopia, and any sacrifice is worthwhile to get there. The fact that such a Utopia doesn't exist, and never has, in all history doesn't matter to them: you see, this time they will get it right. . .
...and these fools also forget that in every case, once the psychopaths attain absolute power, they quickly EXTERMINATE the "useful idiots" who had helped them GET to power.
That's true, but in communist regimes, the people at the very top live lives of wealth, luxury, and power. Think about the folks who run North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela--the dictator, his immediate friends and family, his mistresses, and a handful of others in government live like royalty while their countrymen starve. So, some of the current leftist elites--think Hillary Clinton--expect to live even larger in a communist government than they do in the nominal democracy, what used to be a Democratic Republic, that governs this woke/broke/joke of a country. People can always fool themselves, pretending that "everyone ELSE will end up in a work camp, I will be the dictator's right-hand man".
As I see it, right now US citizens live in a Kleptocracy, we are governed by thieves who use their political positions to line their pockets. An obvious example would be Congresswoman Ocasio Cortez who went from working as a bartender to being worth over 30 million dollars after a few years in Congress. It's hard for me to feel sorry for my fellow citizens, as they are dumb enough to allow this to happen, in a sane country our government would have been forcibly overthrown decades ago, and in the government that replaced it corruption would have been monitored and swiftly punished. Trump, well, he stopped the bleeding, mostly, for 4Y and we had a temporary pause in the ongoing decline of this once-great nation. I support him and hope he wins again, but I think that another brief pause in the decline of the US is about all we can hope for. If Harris cheats her way into power instead, and again cranks up the printing press to devalue our currency, I would not be at all surprised to see a Hyperinflationary Dollar Collapse in the US, immediately followed by the end of civilization here. Think about it: if the Dollar became worthless at 7 a.m. on a busy weekday morning, grocery stores would be looted and burned by 9 a.m. Gun stores, gas stations, and pretty much every store would soon follow. I could see civilization here gone by 3 or 4 in the afternoon in a Dollar Collapse scenario, which I absolutely believe not only could happen, but will happen if we stay on course with print-and-spend.
She’s just the latest in a long line of scum. Pelosi comes to mind. Heck, they are all guilty
Look at Melania. She was great when before she started talking. Now she has revealed herself to be a pro-abort, feminist witch.
I disagree. I think she is quite reasonable. Those like you who think she is a witch are just as bad as the "liberals" or "democrats" you probably rail against. Abortion is not a zero sum thing. You should know this. In some cases it is the absolutely right thing to do. If you can't see those cases then you are indoctrinated.
Well as Trump himself says, she is entitled to her opinion. Also, remember what field she was in before meeting Trump, I would imagine that abortions are wide spread in the modeling profession.
Yeah, it's all just opinions, right John? Let's vote on scientific hypothesises too.
Lugh, the longer I watch the more I realize that emotion and opinion seem to matter more than facts.
And New Zealand welcomes the day.
Liberals and humans, ha! Does that mean that liberals equals Klingons or Romulans.
Perhaps I am an awful person, but I am committed to my own preservation. Most people I see in these comment threads were abandoned or rejected by their leftist friends. I did the opposite: I pre-emptively abandoned THEM.
When a couple friends turned into insane people during Covid, I just dropped them. Mentally ill people scare me, and these people had cracked and gone crazy. After two or three attempts to talk sense to them, I gave up.
When I feel guilty about that, I just remember the advice of Josh Slocum, whose specialty is Cluster B personality disorders. He said to ask yourself: If the country goes full Stalinist, would this person snitch on me to the authorities? If you have to hesitate even a moment before answering, DROP THAT PERSON FROM YOUR LIFE. Immediately and totally.
KATHY S - yes I agree used the same process. Don’t want them as friends - don’t trust them - they would hurt me to stay alive in their fantasy. Sorry - but F them I am too smart too strong and too independent to need those asshats around me.
That is exactly what I told my husband about several of our “friends” during Covid. They would snitch on us in a heartbeat. We still interact with them but are not true friends anymore. We we sad at first, but once we realize they would turn on us, the decision was easy.
Yes, exactly. I likewise cut a slew of people out of my life during the Covid/Vaxx attack. It was clear their critical judgment could no longer be taken seriously, while they were passing judgment on many others.
I can’t be friends with people I don’t respect. I know a lot of people I thought were smart who turned out not to be wise.
The bigger concern is what these fools are going to do, and allow to be done to us, when the next big horror show production gets dropped on us.
Good advice!
It's a combination of cognitive dissonance and what Ayn Rand aptly characterized as a "blank out." And that's the mildest case. Try telling your average shitlib that no nation ever taxed itself into prosperity. It will take them a few momentsnto process what you just said before they explode into paroxisms of spittle-flecked rage, hate and name-calling. Properly speaking, it's a psychotic break.
Reading your descriptive comment, I totally saw in my mind’s eye Keith Olbermann 😜
It's terrible, but I've seen it in my own family. I have a loved one who was a journalist and is still fanatically devoted to media. She spends all her time on internet forums worrying about Russia. When she used to still visit she would try to ask "gotcha" questions (she inevitably brings up politics, I do not) and then would get very angry, "panic" as you insightfully say, and tell me "well I guess I'm just not as smart as you" and then change the subject. She gave up seeing her only living family members in preference for websites like Democratic Underground and never having to hear a contrary opinion. I've tried to bridge the gap but it's a thankless task and it breaks my heart to see loved ones so caught up in anger, panic, know-nothingism. They had a lot to say about Q-Anon people, but these people have been high on their own supply since 2008 and now that it's running out it's getting tragic to see them avoiding a confrontation with themselves. I hope your friend chills out; he's giving up more than lunch, but a priceless connection to a living soul rather than another automaton.
I have thought over and over, WTF is going on here?
My answers, our politics , our beliefs are a big piece of our ego and especially super-ego. An attack on our politics is an attack on the deepest parts of ourselves. Think our where our beliefs come from, everything that affects our lives affects out beliefs. Crises that affect us turn us into Leftists or Rightists. One big one is if we are Haves or Have nots, whether we a winners or losers in the economy. Hidebound Leftists favor the tack that we take from the Haves and fire-distribute to the Have-nots. That violates a basic rule. “Thou Shall not steal.”
Another is access to power. This is a common thing for fence sitters, AKA independents or moderates. They are noted for switching sides depending on who is running things. The Bushes, Cheneys, are famous as well as Tulsi or RFK,Jr. IMHO, we are seeing a resetting of the spectrum location of both parties and a drift away from uniparty. The Deep State hates it and wants to kill the author of one side. Right now, 50% of the country is aligned, like your John, with the Deep State, which is extremist Left and Right. Both want the ascension of the State, everything else is secondary. The other 50% are aligned with folks that want the USA to stay as it was in the 1900s, strong, individualistic, and real. They are MAGA, not GOP. They are aligned with the Moderate right, people that want the State to keep their hands off everything, especially their money. The Deep State’s Prime Directive, thank you Star Trek, is preservation of the Deep State, to the detriment of the local issues, state issues, and most of all individual rights.
Clinton is an ass, now and always. She believes in the supremacy of the Deep State, period. The people be damned.
I wish to God that Trump would bolt on the Republican party and just go independent. Why he hasn't done that shocks me.
I wanna see that video of Hillary killing kids and drinking their blood. Apparently it's on the dark web somewhere, but I don't know how to access that kind of thing.
I fucking HATE, HATE, HATE Hillary Clinton. For too many reasons to list. If vigilante justice ever becomes legal, she is #1 on my hit-list.
No one ever liked HRC! Many Bill Clinton supporters didn’t like her either. A funny 1996 Weekend Update with Norm MacDonald reported that O.J. Simpson was endorsing Bill Clinton for president and that he offered that he would do anything to help him win. At that moment Norm quotes Bill saying, “Well, there is ONE thing…” and up comes HRC’s image on screen, haha. The audience laughter gives a good indication of what an ostensibly liberal audience of 1996 really thought of her. (It’s on yooootube somewhere) And it was justifiably downhill from there
I have wondered the same thing. Maybe because he has more friends in the Party than the big mouth RINOs. The RINOs will eventually leave the GOP as it dies and becomes MAGA.
Respectfully, I think you're a bit too hopeful.
Tee - I wouldn't mind being #1 on your list, but not that one. Anyway, the truth is, we live in a lawless country, Rule of Law is a joke. Look what they - fill in the blank - do so brazenly and with contempt for the law, and for us. I say vigilante justice is legal, and if HRC is ever within arm's reach, it's a good idea to remain vigilant.
Nice.
I don't speak to my family and friends about political issues on which I know we strongly disagree. I want to keep my connections, and I don't trust people to be either tolerant or mature enough to respect a different perspective. It can get lonely, but at least I am still connected to people I want to remain connected to. Maybe this is self-serving of me? I know more about who they are than they know about me.
Have you ever seen North and South by John Jakes? A really good description of the emotions surrounding the 1850’s as the USA ripped itself apart. It is the story of two families, one in South Carolina and one in Pennsylvania, that were close due to the two leading men who were Army chums during the Mexican War. The war absolutely ripped them apart, but once over they healed. A good description of a Fourth Turning. We are there now as the narratives being discussed here are just another fore warning of what is coming. When spirituality breaks down between people, so do the relationships. When hatred becomes the basis instead of love, here comes CW2.
You have raised an important point: we can't escape knowing who they are, as obedient followers of the Official Narrative. We are obliged to stifle identifying openly with the truth and repudiating their false worldview in order to remain close to them. It's perverse, but true.
"Relationships" where one can't speak one's mind? Junk food for the soul. Values don't matter! Only "connection" with human junk.
Yeah, but when it's family...
I've abandoned friendships, but I can't abandon family. Now if THEY were to abandon ME, that's a different matter. Thanks be to God, they have not done that.
If you cannot let go of family, then quite likely you are not go8ng to survive what is coming. Just sayin’
Well, the two people in question are both elderly, disabled, and frail. CAN NOT do that, just can't.
Kathy
You are facing the ultimate dilemma, Your two folks are dependent, need support and the place of last support is the government, so far. So they will favor the continued existence of that institution. IOW, vote Deep State.
What happens when that dries up, like what is happening in NC and Florida? Family steps in to help, if they can. If they can’t,
??????
I’d feel sorrier for you but facing the same issues with my 3 adult daughters and wife of 35 years my sympathies lie mostly with myself.
The truth is a cold comfort on a long and lonely winter night. Hope your acquaintances and mine see the light before the darkness is done.
This explains everything about our friends and relatives. Don't know how to deprogram though
https://rumble.com/v5hsfeq-neuroscientist-explains-why-its-so-hard-to-change-someones-mind.html?e9s=src_v1_upp
The Founders loathed Democracy. We weren't supposed to be a Democracy in other words.
Right, Athens discovered that Democracy was just another form of totalitarianism but that the Mob was the dictator. Today, “Democracy” serves the Leftist side as they manipulate the Mob to their ends. The Mob destroyed Rome. My Late Father-in-Law used to say that a society is doomed when the “Democracy” folks discover they own the purse strings. I believe we are witnessing that right now.
Friends I've parted from - yes indeed, ipso facto.
But finally, at long last, my wife. She's a perfect example of your "[watches] the mainstream media, believing that she has become “informed” by the likes of [for her] the PBS Nightly News.
We knew we were not "on the same page culturally" since our pre-martial counseling, but we lasted for 34 years and two fine boys. As the saying goes, 'strange bedfellows'.
That is terribly sad. If Mr. Trump wins I can be gracious in victory. If Kamala gets in power I will have to prune anyone who willingly forfeits our constitutional rights from my friends list.
Just imagine having to watch that face, that mouth, those teeth and that cackle for four years as she destroys what is left.
Her ads are hideous, they are total lies, I have not seen one particle of truth in any of them. She is trying to pass herself off as a tax cutter, ho, ho , ho. Abortion? Unlimited license for murder. In Arizona, it is the border and abortion, period. Ruben Gallegos is clobbering Lake with abortion and is putting out the Dem line of bullshit about the border. Kamal wins? Who will really be in charge, as she knows nothing.
You know who. Everyone will say it's Soetoro, but it'll be the WEF and its flunkies in the plutocracy, with Jugeared Barry merely acting as their messenger.
"John assiduously studies the mainstream media, believing that he has become “informed” by the likes of the NYT, WaPo, NPR, BBC, MSNBC, etc. " ~ Howard Skillington
The solution is simple with those who claim to have an open mind. All you have to do is "plant a few seeds" that lead them to come to the realization that their sources of information are not providing them with an objective assessment, and therefore are not reliable sources for information.
For example:
Ask him if he is aware of the 2030 Agenda, and that under Joe Biden's leadership "The United States remains committed to accelerating development progress around the world and to fully implementing the ambitious, 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development and its Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs)". And if he is not knowledgeable about this, ask his why his news sources have not presented him with this information.
And in the case of Ukraine, try the following format:
As a person with an open mind, I am interested in viewing information which would counter that which I believe substantiates the claim that Putin/Russia did not start the conflict in Ukraine, but is merely representing the citizens of Russia.
This issue has the potential for WWIII. Are you aware of the Minsk agreements, and if not, are you interested in viewing, and countering, a perspective which I feel substantiates my belief?
If they respond in the affirmative, then provide them with a link to your source.
Jeffrey Sachs: The Untold History of the Cold War, CIA Coups Around the World, and COVID's Origin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS-3QssVPeg
Jeffrey Sachs the Reality of our Imperial Neocons
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/jeffrey-sachs-the-reality-of-our-imperial-neocons/
If they are not interested in taking the time to review and refute your source of information, then surely they recognize that their incomplete perspective is meaningless, especially if it isn't subject to scrutiny.
2030 is merely a set of goals, not nasty.
"No poverty (SDG 1), Zero hunger (SDG 2), Good health and well-being (SDG 3), Quality education (SDG 4), Gender equality (SDG 5), Clean water and sanitation (SDG 6), Affordable and clean energy (SDG 7), Decent work and economic growth (SDG 8), Industry, innovation and infrastructure (SDG 9), Reduced inequalities (SDG 10), Sustainable cities and communities (SDG 11), Responsible consumption and production (SDG 12), Climate action (SDG 13), Life below water (SDG 14), Life on land (SDG 15), Peace, justice, and strong institutions (SDG 16), and Partnerships for the goals (SDG 17)."
There needs to be an international discussion about the 2030 Agenda.
The problem I have, is with the grifters associated with it's implementation.
fairy stories. Goals are, about by definition - challenges, yet can be visualized as attainable with focused effort. All those listed, I'm sure many would agree with.
The amount of money, and the effort and focus necessary to even begin to implement any of it, tells me one thing for certain...
Never gonna happen. Too many fucking humans involved.
Your suggestions are generous and sound, but John and others know that they can evade both evidence and reason with a lazy declaration of "I don't believe it." If I had coercive power over them I could require that they read your suggested list, or my own, and confront them with a mountain of evidence and documentation, but I have no such control and, in the end, the friendship is a casualty.
A relationship with a person with a closed mind is like trying to dance on the head of a pin. It's not worth it.
Whether it be the president of the United States of America, members of his cabinet, your family, or your friends, if they are not interested in having a congenial discussion with you about anything, aren't they telling you that they don't respect your opinion, and ultimately that they don't respect you?
Given such circumstances, is it worth your time to invest in that relationship?
I say, toss the "seeds" out there, and if they take root, you can avail yourself if they ever come around.
As for a president, isn't a primary task of good leadership to stand for scrutiny and explain to the population that which you are doing and why you are doing it?
There is a stark difference between the current options, and if this represents the population at large, then it suggests that the current system is played out. But, why would anyone want a deceitful/incompetent administration to preside over the implementation of a new format for life?
Well put, and I heartily concur. You evoke a better world than the one in which we live.