Yep! i am not arguing the point that costs are somehow lower than they are. I agree that farmers should be fairly and actually generously compensated given the services they offer. And i am also aware of inflation and the unreasonable costs of everything. My point is that bringing in foreign labor to lower costs is not going to solve the…
Yep! i am not arguing the point that costs are somehow lower than they are. I agree that farmers should be fairly and actually generously compensated given the services they offer. And i am also aware of inflation and the unreasonable costs of everything. My point is that bringing in foreign labor to lower costs is not going to solve the long term problems you bring up. In fact, it will maintain the expectation of people that they can get a dozen eggs for 2 or 3 dollars. It is a like a drug habit. Outsourcing everything has led to the problems we are apparently "arguing" over.
Exactly, but what are folks going to do about it? I'd say it starts with consumers stopping their complaints about costs. Pay for good products made and grown by fairly compensated workers. If consumers are willing to do that, there will be less work for imported labor, if that's the goal.
Yes, consumers need to stop complaining about costs! I paint houses and charge $15K, the other painters in town charge $10K, and they're getting all the work. They need to stop complaining about costs, damnit! My kids need new shoes!
Edit/Clarifying: Your comments here are not consistent. You're saying farms should hire local white people (who really aren't always available), not migrant workers, even if the migrant workers are affordable and work harder? And that farms should not raise prices to reflect the cost of hiring local workers who have local housing and do not work to a top standard! Our farm is all locals but housing is an issue. Farms closer to Boston are able to use the programs that bring in Jamaicans and others legally and for a season and with housing and visa, etc. taken care of. Small farms are disappearing due to costs, markets, labor, etc. And again no one has ever said "did the farm laborers arrive?" at our farm. They are staff
If we want to give people a fair wage, that might have to be everyone in the civilization to maintain one that doesn't collapse. But this civ wants to eat its cake and have it too. But how does one do that? Well, one first eats their cake, waits for it to pass through their intestinal tract and voila; the cake again. Eat enough of that kind of cake and you, too, will collapse, like your idiocy-for-a-civilization.
Ironically, there's little that's civilized about it. Likewise, there's little that's actually economic about its 'economics'.
Over here in Nova Scotia, we grow our own apples. What apples show up in our grocery stores? Why apples from Chile of course. Cuz, 'economics'.
Because folks want predictably uniform apples at a certain price and year-round. We need to move away from that. I know it doesn't feel great when you crave green grapes in the winter and the only ones available are from Peru. Because: season. (BTW, when I visited my friend in Truro, I couldn't believe how many forgotten apple trees loaded with apples lined the roads. That was probably October.)
Of course folks, along with their civilization, will be having to adjust their expectations to meet reality-- that thing that JHK often talks about hereon.
We're only now finally finishing the butternut squash that I grew and picked in September. We still have garlic in the crisper picked in late July.
And then there's canning, salting, fermenting, drying and pickling, etc.. -- knowledge and skills many of us lost to a drift over time into a kind of unreality.
Yes, there should be no imported labor! But we should reserve the right to complain about what we wish to complain about. Reasonableness is often in the eyes of the beholder.
Yep! i am not arguing the point that costs are somehow lower than they are. I agree that farmers should be fairly and actually generously compensated given the services they offer. And i am also aware of inflation and the unreasonable costs of everything. My point is that bringing in foreign labor to lower costs is not going to solve the long term problems you bring up. In fact, it will maintain the expectation of people that they can get a dozen eggs for 2 or 3 dollars. It is a like a drug habit. Outsourcing everything has led to the problems we are apparently "arguing" over.
Exactly, but what are folks going to do about it? I'd say it starts with consumers stopping their complaints about costs. Pay for good products made and grown by fairly compensated workers. If consumers are willing to do that, there will be less work for imported labor, if that's the goal.
Yes, consumers need to stop complaining about costs! I paint houses and charge $15K, the other painters in town charge $10K, and they're getting all the work. They need to stop complaining about costs, damnit! My kids need new shoes!
Edit/Clarifying: Your comments here are not consistent. You're saying farms should hire local white people (who really aren't always available), not migrant workers, even if the migrant workers are affordable and work harder? And that farms should not raise prices to reflect the cost of hiring local workers who have local housing and do not work to a top standard! Our farm is all locals but housing is an issue. Farms closer to Boston are able to use the programs that bring in Jamaicans and others legally and for a season and with housing and visa, etc. taken care of. Small farms are disappearing due to costs, markets, labor, etc. And again no one has ever said "did the farm laborers arrive?" at our farm. They are staff
Your introduction of race is telling. Race has zero to do with economics. Try harder.
You are guilty of the sin of noticing. Odin smiles.
It's conversation worthy of Flatland.
youtu.be/UnURElCzGc0?si=B6tGX5iEoOwknlMu
~ Cart-Before-The-Horse Civilization ~
If we want to give people a fair wage, that might have to be everyone in the civilization to maintain one that doesn't collapse. But this civ wants to eat its cake and have it too. But how does one do that? Well, one first eats their cake, waits for it to pass through their intestinal tract and voila; the cake again. Eat enough of that kind of cake and you, too, will collapse, like your idiocy-for-a-civilization.
Ironically, there's little that's civilized about it. Likewise, there's little that's actually economic about its 'economics'.
Over here in Nova Scotia, we grow our own apples. What apples show up in our grocery stores? Why apples from Chile of course. Cuz, 'economics'.
Because folks want predictably uniform apples at a certain price and year-round. We need to move away from that. I know it doesn't feel great when you crave green grapes in the winter and the only ones available are from Peru. Because: season. (BTW, when I visited my friend in Truro, I couldn't believe how many forgotten apple trees loaded with apples lined the roads. That was probably October.)
Of course folks, along with their civilization, will be having to adjust their expectations to meet reality-- that thing that JHK often talks about hereon.
We're only now finally finishing the butternut squash that I grew and picked in September. We still have garlic in the crisper picked in late July.
And then there's canning, salting, fermenting, drying and pickling, etc.. -- knowledge and skills many of us lost to a drift over time into a kind of unreality.
Yes, there should be no imported labor! But we should reserve the right to complain about what we wish to complain about. Reasonableness is often in the eyes of the beholder.
Yes, people are going to complain. Some of the complaints have weight and some don't. But it's a human right.
Stop going to a big ag market that marks up prices. Big ag and big pharma and health insurance companies must go
?