rd3, and they could make cars without planned obsolescence built in. I still remember talking with a man in the auto industry in 1973. He said that they are perfectly capable of building cars that last for 20 years, but they never will because then they'd saturate the market. Now my last car, a Honda Civic with manual transmission, made …
rd3, and they could make cars without planned obsolescence built in. I still remember talking with a man in the auto industry in 1973. He said that they are perfectly capable of building cars that last for 20 years, but they never will because then they'd saturate the market. Now my last car, a Honda Civic with manual transmission, made it to 20 years--just barely. But it was a great car and gave me almost no grief until quite late in its life. I suppose I should have moved on after about 16 years, what with repairs and such, but that extra four years still gave me time to save a nice down payment for my current car, even with expenses for the old one. Well, it worked for me. How about cars that last ten years in good condition if you bother with upkeep? How much could people save if they had reliable transportation they didn't have to swap out for new every three to five years? The increase in car insurance alone gave me sticker shock!
Toyotas will give you 20 years. Easily. I had a 1993 Toyota Pick up. Drove that thing until 2019 until it threw a rod and cancer was eating away the rear fenders. It wasn't worth repairing so I sadly sold it to an old guy who needed a run around. He fixed it and I still see it out on road in my town. Still running.
I also drove a 2000 Toyota Sienna mini van and sold it last year, 2024, to a young family who needed a family vehicle. Still ran fantastically when I sold it.
My daughter is driving a 2005 Toyota Corolla that I bought in 2008 and it runs like a charm.
I drive a 2007 Toyota Tacoma. Fantastic truck.
I do all the vehicle maintenance on my own. Keep the oil changed and don't drive like a lead footed maniac and a Toyota will easily give you 20 years.
I also have a 1968 Camaro but that one requires a little more TLC to keep running ;)
Great stories, Cankerpuss! Yes, Toyotas are long-lived, too, if you take care of them. I had a Toyota but it was totaled in an accident, alas. My sister drives trucks and loves them. She had a Chevy Stepside from 1992 to 2012, sold it to someone who continued to drive it. She now has a Silverado since 2012 and it's running like a champ.
When I bought my Camaro, after years of saving, the dealership had a 69 Charger on the lot. My Camaro was about $42,000.00. That Charger was listed at $110,000.00. Well out of my price range :)
I always thought the Pontiac's had subtle touches that made them look a little cooler. The front end looked better. The rear quarter panel swept in and narrowed a little more. That being said, I had a Camaro from that era. My father had a Chevelle Super Sport that my mother wrecked when I was a kid.
I grew up driving a 1970 Pontiac Tempest that I sold because I didn't have the money or the space to restore and store it. Kick myself to this day.
Still, that first gen Camaro and the coke bottle design always makes me swoon. The subtle curves, the big grill, the stance. Gorgeous car. Cars today? They all look the same to me. Cars from the 70s, 60s, 50s and before were pieces of art.
@rd3 opened up a can of worms--mostly good, with his comment.
Regarding cars, in terms of durability, the line between durable and junk was broad and blurry until the 1990s. That is because the major automakers had not acquired the requisite experience and skill to design and manufacture components and subsystems that were "just good enough" to last 120k to 160k miles (200k to 250k km). Therefore, believe it or not, they were generally "over-engineered" for their era, in the sense that, with regular maintenance, they could last indefinitely (provided they did not rust out).
Starting in the 1960s/70s, as cars improved, automakers dialed back the routine service and maintenance requirements.
The "peak auto" era was, loosely speaking, mid 1980s to mid 2010s. Cars did become more complex, and harder to service (though they needed less service, when they needed a repair, it was more expensive).
Starting in the 1990s and 2000s, the automakers started selling cars that were meant to last 120k to 200k miles (the actual targets are closely guarded secrets) with minimal service. When a system fails at that point, the economics of keeping the car on the road are not attractive, and often the car is sent to a salvage yard, to provide parts.
Improved technology and manufacturing have led to widespread adoption of features that are inherently inferior, but can now be manufactured to be "good enough". (There are reasons why the straight six was so popular until the 1960s, why V6s use did not become widespread till the 80s, and why there were NO 3-cylinder US cars until the 2020s. Your first guess is your best guess...). The CVT automatic (Continuously Variable Transmission) comes to mind. Or technologies that are more expensive and have drawbacks, but can give better mpg, and can be "short-cutted" to some extent to meet cost targets: turbochargers, 8,9,10 speed automatics, direct fuel injection.
The takeaway is this: the typical 1990-2010 Toyota will go farther with fewer problems than the typical 2025 Toyota. And that applies to pretty much all cars (I pick Toyota because they were, and are, generally considered to be the best-built vehicles).
But it's not as simple as running out and finding a used Toyota, because they are used and OLD.
We are beset by many problems. However, if I was dictator, one easy call would be to roll back US auto regulations to 2000 levels, eliminate CAFE, and raise motor fuel taxes $0.25 a quarter for the next two years, in the hope that this would make building cars like 1990-2010 4-cylinder Camrys, Civics, and Cruzes economically attractive to automakers. Less content, lower operating costs, longer life, less fuel consumption, fewer exhaust emissions, in a society where car is absolutely essential for 95% of the adult public.
I think when only some of the dust settles from the Reckoning we are fast approaching, we'll be looking forward to an actual "Golden Age". Pun intended, as gold and other actual physical assets I think, will be paramount in the aftermath of the fiat currency failure.
rd3, and they could make cars without planned obsolescence built in. I still remember talking with a man in the auto industry in 1973. He said that they are perfectly capable of building cars that last for 20 years, but they never will because then they'd saturate the market. Now my last car, a Honda Civic with manual transmission, made it to 20 years--just barely. But it was a great car and gave me almost no grief until quite late in its life. I suppose I should have moved on after about 16 years, what with repairs and such, but that extra four years still gave me time to save a nice down payment for my current car, even with expenses for the old one. Well, it worked for me. How about cars that last ten years in good condition if you bother with upkeep? How much could people save if they had reliable transportation they didn't have to swap out for new every three to five years? The increase in car insurance alone gave me sticker shock!
Toyotas will give you 20 years. Easily. I had a 1993 Toyota Pick up. Drove that thing until 2019 until it threw a rod and cancer was eating away the rear fenders. It wasn't worth repairing so I sadly sold it to an old guy who needed a run around. He fixed it and I still see it out on road in my town. Still running.
I also drove a 2000 Toyota Sienna mini van and sold it last year, 2024, to a young family who needed a family vehicle. Still ran fantastically when I sold it.
My daughter is driving a 2005 Toyota Corolla that I bought in 2008 and it runs like a charm.
I drive a 2007 Toyota Tacoma. Fantastic truck.
I do all the vehicle maintenance on my own. Keep the oil changed and don't drive like a lead footed maniac and a Toyota will easily give you 20 years.
I also have a 1968 Camaro but that one requires a little more TLC to keep running ;)
Great stories, Cankerpuss! Yes, Toyotas are long-lived, too, if you take care of them. I had a Toyota but it was totaled in an accident, alas. My sister drives trucks and loves them. She had a Chevy Stepside from 1992 to 2012, sold it to someone who continued to drive it. She now has a Silverado since 2012 and it's running like a champ.
Chevy makes a good truck to be sure. They also made the sexiest muscle car that ever existed. The Camaro!!!!
I'll see your Camero, and raise you a Mach 1 Cobra Mustang : )
Very nice!!!
The MOPAR cars had the best look, but the engines didn't run right unless you lived in a really dry place.
Nothing wrong with a classic Charger, Cuda or Challenger! They always grab my attention when I see one.
My buddy's dad used to own this car:
https://www.admcars.com/galleria_images/342/342_main_l.jpg
I bet that car is worth $150,000.00 today. Very nice!
We weren't allowed anywhere near it. Haha.
No doubt!
When I bought my Camaro, after years of saving, the dealership had a 69 Charger on the lot. My Camaro was about $42,000.00. That Charger was listed at $110,000.00. Well out of my price range :)
Wow. Another friend's dad got his first big paycheck in the early 70's and went to buy a Corvette. His wife said no and he paid off the house instead.
I was always partial to the first generation Firebirds.
Almost identical to a first gen Camaro. Different grill, different tail lights, and some vents over the rear fender but a bad ass car none the less!
I always thought the Pontiac's had subtle touches that made them look a little cooler. The front end looked better. The rear quarter panel swept in and narrowed a little more. That being said, I had a Camaro from that era. My father had a Chevelle Super Sport that my mother wrecked when I was a kid.
I grew up driving a 1970 Pontiac Tempest that I sold because I didn't have the money or the space to restore and store it. Kick myself to this day.
Still, that first gen Camaro and the coke bottle design always makes me swoon. The subtle curves, the big grill, the stance. Gorgeous car. Cars today? They all look the same to me. Cars from the 70s, 60s, 50s and before were pieces of art.
Yeah man, the racks on those babes. Who needed girls with grills like that?
Especially now that Pontiac has gone the way of the Dodo bird!
I believe 67 to 69 Firebirds are more rare than a Camaro and thus harder to find and more valuable. So when I see one, I take notice.
The orange and black color scheme just looked mean.
@rd3 opened up a can of worms--mostly good, with his comment.
Regarding cars, in terms of durability, the line between durable and junk was broad and blurry until the 1990s. That is because the major automakers had not acquired the requisite experience and skill to design and manufacture components and subsystems that were "just good enough" to last 120k to 160k miles (200k to 250k km). Therefore, believe it or not, they were generally "over-engineered" for their era, in the sense that, with regular maintenance, they could last indefinitely (provided they did not rust out).
Starting in the 1960s/70s, as cars improved, automakers dialed back the routine service and maintenance requirements.
The "peak auto" era was, loosely speaking, mid 1980s to mid 2010s. Cars did become more complex, and harder to service (though they needed less service, when they needed a repair, it was more expensive).
Starting in the 1990s and 2000s, the automakers started selling cars that were meant to last 120k to 200k miles (the actual targets are closely guarded secrets) with minimal service. When a system fails at that point, the economics of keeping the car on the road are not attractive, and often the car is sent to a salvage yard, to provide parts.
Improved technology and manufacturing have led to widespread adoption of features that are inherently inferior, but can now be manufactured to be "good enough". (There are reasons why the straight six was so popular until the 1960s, why V6s use did not become widespread till the 80s, and why there were NO 3-cylinder US cars until the 2020s. Your first guess is your best guess...). The CVT automatic (Continuously Variable Transmission) comes to mind. Or technologies that are more expensive and have drawbacks, but can give better mpg, and can be "short-cutted" to some extent to meet cost targets: turbochargers, 8,9,10 speed automatics, direct fuel injection.
The takeaway is this: the typical 1990-2010 Toyota will go farther with fewer problems than the typical 2025 Toyota. And that applies to pretty much all cars (I pick Toyota because they were, and are, generally considered to be the best-built vehicles).
But it's not as simple as running out and finding a used Toyota, because they are used and OLD.
We are beset by many problems. However, if I was dictator, one easy call would be to roll back US auto regulations to 2000 levels, eliminate CAFE, and raise motor fuel taxes $0.25 a quarter for the next two years, in the hope that this would make building cars like 1990-2010 4-cylinder Camrys, Civics, and Cruzes economically attractive to automakers. Less content, lower operating costs, longer life, less fuel consumption, fewer exhaust emissions, in a society where car is absolutely essential for 95% of the adult public.
Wish a Ford and a Chevy would still last ten years like they should
Is the best of the free life behind us now? Are the good times really over for good?
No. They aren't.
That was Merle's conclusion, too.
I think when only some of the dust settles from the Reckoning we are fast approaching, we'll be looking forward to an actual "Golden Age". Pun intended, as gold and other actual physical assets I think, will be paramount in the aftermath of the fiat currency failure.
rd3, better days are yet to come. We just have to work through the problems we are facing.
We just have to make it through December…. RIP Merle