I've studied communism/communists all my life and I'm 70 y,o. It was the oligarchs/Wall St. who brought in communism. They don't want it for themselves but they want it for the rest of us - they get to enjoy wealth but we don't. If you learn anything about communist Russia, you will learn it was basically run by a very small amount of very wealthy men who never shared that wealth with anyone else. You may want to read this book, by an author who studied this entire topic with extreme thoroughness:
Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution: The Remarkable True Story of the American Capitalists Who Financed the Russian Communists
Here is just one question for you, it comes from a review of that book:
"Why did the 1917 American Red Cross Mission to Russia include more financiers than medical doctors? Rather than caring for the victims of war and revolution, its members seemed more intent on negotiating contracts with the Kerensky government and, subsequently, the Bolshevik regime."
Yeah. When I was studying Russian in college during the mid-60's, I came across the word "dacha" meaning country estate and was stunned by the idea of country estates behind the Iron Curtain.
Fast forward 30 years. The Iron Curtain had fallen, the Evil Empire dissipated, and all was sweetness and light for a while. I happened to be working at a major university and came to know the professor in charge of the study abroad program that sent exchange students to Eastern Europe. The subjects of their theses and dissertations were astonishing. Business management in Ukraine! Technological innovation in Russia! Similar topics Czechoslovakia. That's when I realized the infrastructure for all this had to have been laid long, long ago. There were books on the subject but they were poorly publicized and few people were aware of them, much less read them.
Today it's all out in the open thanks to an alternative media - no longer alternative - which has become a battering ram for truth.
I was in Soviet Union in 1977; was there a month and had to stay in hospital to have my appendix removed. I was able to talk to many Russians so I gathered lots of info about USSR. Here in America we can trace roots of Communism back to the Marxists who were kicked out of Germany and other European countries back in mid-1800s right after Karl Marx wrote Communist Manifesto. Abraham Lincoln let in these Marxists and used them to get re-elected.
Yes -- I agree. In Communism, there is no Private Property. However, there is still a lot of Property. Who will "manage" all of this Property? The Party Leadership, of course. And so you get a Totalitarian - Administrative - Class. During Covid, many of these folks referred to themselves as "Experts."
Absolutely correct. The NWO aka Mr. Global is their latest reiteration. Burns my ass that the U.S. military is used as their juggernaut to strip countries of their natural assets.
Their Final Order will have elements of both Capitalism and Communism. Guess which will rule? The Few. For the rest? "You will own nothing and you will be happy.
The remedy is more Capitalism, right? No. That is the cause. The remedy always was Fascism or National Socialism. Keep the Capitalists in line, and running scared. Make them serve the nation for the good of all. Not persecution and confiscation or nationalization - except in extreme cases. Don't want to drive them away a la Atlas Shrugged. In his bluff way, Pinochet expressed the Truth: Of course you treat people who can make and do things very well.
Not true. The commies just take over the institutions. They have done that quite well: See Marxist indoctrination in the universities, and DEI/ESG in the corporations.
I don't agree, communism takes over the means of production. I would suggest reading/watching some of James Lindsay's work on the topic. Newdiscourses.com.
So communism means they run the military industrial complex? ЁЯШВ
Last I checked in history, when it comes to universities in the USSR , people were able to get practically free education because educated workers benefit the state.
Here in Amerika, education is the most expensive and only benefits the wealthy who can buy their way in. What is the definition of a nation that is run by the wealthy?
Just because it doesn't fit exactly with Russian communism doesn't mean it isn't communism - which can take a number of different forms with different names, i.e., communism, socialism, fascism.
Whatever you want to name it is fine - and why you're so invested, who knows. But what Democrats have been trying to instill is communism. It is textbook.
Yes, as Marx said, capital centralizes. Capitalism unchecked leads to Plutocratic Oligarchy. You people won. Careful of what you dream about, you might get it. Happy? You didn't understand the consequences, even though unintended perhaps.
Such a thing can't exist since it is opposed to human society. If order isn't kept, if they are allowed to run roughshod over everyone, then the people will take matters into their own hands. Ditto pure Communism.
It's Fascism when Government leads the dance. What we have is the opposite with the private sphere leading (at the highest level) - Plutocracy in other words.
You want to separate the two spheres, right? Can't be done in the modern industrial state. Actually, it was never really done since human life is an organic whole. In any case, one will lead. But which? You want the one that is faceless, devoted to profit alone, and beholden only to owners and shareholders to lead, right? Not the one voted in and that take an oath to serve.
Thank you. And this probably would pair nicely with what James Lindsay's work on cultural Marxism and the way the Democrats and the left have used that to try to create a new USSR out of the US.
Good, Grogan. Capitalism/Communism is one system, heads and tails. Communism is the fighting arm of Capitalism that breaks systems and nations not tied into the Capitalist global order. Of course things can and do go wrong. After a long travail, Russia has thrown this crap off and become Fascist. China, National Socialist, proud against to be the Han, the Sons of Heaven.
I respectfully submit that fascism/communism is a false split. They are the same thing in essence. It bears out historically. They are both statist, exclusionary power grabs. They share much more than they differ. We're arguing about the distinctions between two pieces of silverware. It doesn't matter. What matters is that they are both essentially anti people.
That's the classic take, but doesn't that make it a full circle? I don't see the cultural difference either. People are killed, that's pretty much the same. Each decides their enemy, kills them and takes over. Rinse and repeat.
The cultural part of Marxism is the most fascinating. This has been planned since at least the 1940s. The people who warned of creeping communism were correct. They saw the signs beginning with the depravity of the postmodernist movement, etc. This has all been a road towards the utter breakdown of western mores and culture. They aim to tear down normalcy, religion, community, and introduce indoctrination, especially of children. Notice how the Democrats fight to keep absolute filth on the shelves in schools so that young kids of 6 can access it? They are fine with Drag Queens in woman-face parading around and flashing themselves at toddlers? Utter depravity - straight out of postmodernism. Those people (Foucault, etc) were all into pedophilia too.
Money and the government granted monopoly of the Federal Reserve (Note) co-opts the wannabee Academic Marxists. They both use each other to the detriment of everyone else.
Many would argue that the Enlightenment was the beginning of the problem. Intriguing notion, I think. It rather depends on where one stands on the French Revolution and whether or not one is Christian.
Yeah, that's why they fought so viciously, right? Capitalism/Communism, being globalist, united against nationalism, be it Fascism or National Socialism - or the earlier form, Monarchism as per Czarist Russia.
I've just given you the master key to understand all things.
Omg We are surely doomed when so many conflate liberalism with communism. Communists hate liberals for your information. Communism is internationalist (ie workers reject nationalism as a capitalist ploy to send them to wars). Liberalism is globalist ( ie a cabal of billionaires plotting to own everything) . There is a difference: in one, the little guy gets a roof and 3 squares and lives a long happy life in community. In the other, heтАЩs deep in debt, cut off from family due to job changes, and worried he still might end up sleeping in the gutter or bleeding out on some foreign battlefield.
would you call castro a capitalist? He died with a net worth of at least 400 million USD. All of the communist dictators are wealthy or die wealthy. The oligarchs in the US absolutely are communists. But not for themselves of course. They want to impose communism on the peasants. The worse part is millions of those very same peasants believe in communism. They believe in something that is contrary to human nature and can never work. No matter how many enemies of the people you have to murder to bring in the communist utopia.
Since when did communists believe in wall Street?
In fact, they loathe it, but both parties here are pretty much fascists, aka public private mafia.
Communism it is not.
I've studied communism/communists all my life and I'm 70 y,o. It was the oligarchs/Wall St. who brought in communism. They don't want it for themselves but they want it for the rest of us - they get to enjoy wealth but we don't. If you learn anything about communist Russia, you will learn it was basically run by a very small amount of very wealthy men who never shared that wealth with anyone else. You may want to read this book, by an author who studied this entire topic with extreme thoroughness:
Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution: The Remarkable True Story of the American Capitalists Who Financed the Russian Communists
https://www.amazon.com/Wall-Street-Bolshevik-Revolution-Capitalists/dp/190557035X/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&sr=1-4
Here is just one question for you, it comes from a review of that book:
"Why did the 1917 American Red Cross Mission to Russia include more financiers than medical doctors? Rather than caring for the victims of war and revolution, its members seemed more intent on negotiating contracts with the Kerensky government and, subsequently, the Bolshevik regime."
Yeah. When I was studying Russian in college during the mid-60's, I came across the word "dacha" meaning country estate and was stunned by the idea of country estates behind the Iron Curtain.
Fast forward 30 years. The Iron Curtain had fallen, the Evil Empire dissipated, and all was sweetness and light for a while. I happened to be working at a major university and came to know the professor in charge of the study abroad program that sent exchange students to Eastern Europe. The subjects of their theses and dissertations were astonishing. Business management in Ukraine! Technological innovation in Russia! Similar topics Czechoslovakia. That's when I realized the infrastructure for all this had to have been laid long, long ago. There were books on the subject but they were poorly publicized and few people were aware of them, much less read them.
Today it's all out in the open thanks to an alternative media - no longer alternative - which has become a battering ram for truth.
I was in Soviet Union in 1977; was there a month and had to stay in hospital to have my appendix removed. I was able to talk to many Russians so I gathered lots of info about USSR. Here in America we can trace roots of Communism back to the Marxists who were kicked out of Germany and other European countries back in mid-1800s right after Karl Marx wrote Communist Manifesto. Abraham Lincoln let in these Marxists and used them to get re-elected.
Interesting!
Yes -- I agree. In Communism, there is no Private Property. However, there is still a lot of Property. Who will "manage" all of this Property? The Party Leadership, of course. And so you get a Totalitarian - Administrative - Class. During Covid, many of these folks referred to themselves as "Experts."
Absolutely correct. The NWO aka Mr. Global is their latest reiteration. Burns my ass that the U.S. military is used as their juggernaut to strip countries of their natural assets.
Chilling, isn't it. Fascinating book I read about Armand Hammer by Jay Epstein illustrates your last point.
"isms" of every kind are just tools, a mirage while they bleed you dry.
Their Final Order will have elements of both Capitalism and Communism. Guess which will rule? The Few. For the rest? "You will own nothing and you will be happy.
The remedy is more Capitalism, right? No. That is the cause. The remedy always was Fascism or National Socialism. Keep the Capitalists in line, and running scared. Make them serve the nation for the good of all. Not persecution and confiscation or nationalization - except in extreme cases. Don't want to drive them away a la Atlas Shrugged. In his bluff way, Pinochet expressed the Truth: Of course you treat people who can make and do things very well.
Not true. The commies just take over the institutions. They have done that quite well: See Marxist indoctrination in the universities, and DEI/ESG in the corporations.
But yet, universities and corporations rely on milking the government.
What is it called when the private industries and the government walk hand in hand?
Fascism.
Public Private Partnerships
Sounds benign
It isnтАЩt
I don't agree, communism takes over the means of production. I would suggest reading/watching some of James Lindsay's work on the topic. Newdiscourses.com.
So communism means they run the military industrial complex? ЁЯШВ
Last I checked in history, when it comes to universities in the USSR , people were able to get practically free education because educated workers benefit the state.
Here in Amerika, education is the most expensive and only benefits the wealthy who can buy their way in. What is the definition of a nation that is run by the wealthy?
OLIGARCHY.
Just because it doesn't fit exactly with Russian communism doesn't mean it isn't communism - which can take a number of different forms with different names, i.e., communism, socialism, fascism.
Whatever you want to name it is fine - and why you're so invested, who knows. But what Democrats have been trying to instill is communism. It is textbook.
Yes, as Marx said, capital centralizes. Capitalism unchecked leads to Plutocratic Oligarchy. You people won. Careful of what you dream about, you might get it. Happy? You didn't understand the consequences, even though unintended perhaps.
Free Market Capitalism, free of Monopolies, free of Government favoritism, has yet to arrive on the shores of America.
Once a Private Central Bank controls Money and Credit, only the favored few will prosper beyond their wildest dreams.
Such a thing can't exist since it is opposed to human society. If order isn't kept, if they are allowed to run roughshod over everyone, then the people will take matters into their own hands. Ditto pure Communism.
and "What" do the Universities teach??? Demoncrazy ProgreSSive Communism
Tyranny is Tyranny, the "Isms" just are for debating facades.
It's Fascism when Government leads the dance. What we have is the opposite with the private sphere leading (at the highest level) - Plutocracy in other words.
You want to separate the two spheres, right? Can't be done in the modern industrial state. Actually, it was never really done since human life is an organic whole. In any case, one will lead. But which? You want the one that is faceless, devoted to profit alone, and beholden only to owners and shareholders to lead, right? Not the one voted in and that take an oath to serve.
Here is a book you might be interested in reading, it confirms your statement about "the professional class" and communism:
Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution: The Remarkable True Story of the American Capitalists Who Financed the Russian Communists
https://www.amazon.com/Wall-Street-Bolshevik-Revolution-Capitalists/dp/190557035X/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&sr=1-4
IMO this is an excellent book. See my other comment reply to Rob for more info.
Thank you. And this probably would pair nicely with what James Lindsay's work on cultural Marxism and the way the Democrats and the left have used that to try to create a new USSR out of the US.
Good, Grogan. Capitalism/Communism is one system, heads and tails. Communism is the fighting arm of Capitalism that breaks systems and nations not tied into the Capitalist global order. Of course things can and do go wrong. After a long travail, Russia has thrown this crap off and become Fascist. China, National Socialist, proud against to be the Han, the Sons of Heaven.
I respectfully submit that fascism/communism is a false split. They are the same thing in essence. It bears out historically. They are both statist, exclusionary power grabs. They share much more than they differ. We're arguing about the distinctions between two pieces of silverware. It doesn't matter. What matters is that they are both essentially anti people.
I think the only difference is that fascism tends to be extreme rightwing, and communism extreme leftwing. And culturally, they are different.
That's the classic take, but doesn't that make it a full circle? I don't see the cultural difference either. People are killed, that's pretty much the same. Each decides their enemy, kills them and takes over. Rinse and repeat.
The cultural part of Marxism is the most fascinating. This has been planned since at least the 1940s. The people who warned of creeping communism were correct. They saw the signs beginning with the depravity of the postmodernist movement, etc. This has all been a road towards the utter breakdown of western mores and culture. They aim to tear down normalcy, religion, community, and introduce indoctrination, especially of children. Notice how the Democrats fight to keep absolute filth on the shelves in schools so that young kids of 6 can access it? They are fine with Drag Queens in woman-face parading around and flashing themselves at toddlers? Utter depravity - straight out of postmodernism. Those people (Foucault, etc) were all into pedophilia too.
Money and the government granted monopoly of the Federal Reserve (Note) co-opts the wannabee Academic Marxists. They both use each other to the detriment of everyone else.
Thanks Mary Rose, for encapsulating the issue as one of "postmodernism", essentially aimed at eradicating the Enlightenment.
Many would argue that the Enlightenment was the beginning of the problem. Intriguing notion, I think. It rather depends on where one stands on the French Revolution and whether or not one is Christian.
In other words, they're totally different. But yes they both use guns, war just being the extension of politics by other means.
Yes, that is a big difference.
Fascism is completely different than communism. Fascism is nationalism while communism is globalism.
Yeah, that's why they fought so viciously, right? Capitalism/Communism, being globalist, united against nationalism, be it Fascism or National Socialism - or the earlier form, Monarchism as per Czarist Russia.
I've just given you the master key to understand all things.
Omg We are surely doomed when so many conflate liberalism with communism. Communists hate liberals for your information. Communism is internationalist (ie workers reject nationalism as a capitalist ploy to send them to wars). Liberalism is globalist ( ie a cabal of billionaires plotting to own everything) . There is a difference: in one, the little guy gets a roof and 3 squares and lives a long happy life in community. In the other, heтАЩs deep in debt, cut off from family due to job changes, and worried he still might end up sleeping in the gutter or bleeding out on some foreign battlefield.
11/11/24: It's Communism (Stalin's) with a Capitalist tip jar.
would you call castro a capitalist? He died with a net worth of at least 400 million USD. All of the communist dictators are wealthy or die wealthy. The oligarchs in the US absolutely are communists. But not for themselves of course. They want to impose communism on the peasants. The worse part is millions of those very same peasants believe in communism. They believe in something that is contrary to human nature and can never work. No matter how many enemies of the people you have to murder to bring in the communist utopia.