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The Fate of the Yeast People

    Every time I do a Q and A after a college lecture, somebody says (with a fanfare of indignation) – so as to reveal their own brilliance in contrast to my foolishness – “You haven’t said anything about overpopulation!”

     Right.  I usually don’t bother. Their complaint, of course, implies that we would do something about overpopulation if only we would recognize it.  Which is absurd.  What might we do about overpopulation here in the USA?  Legislate a one-child policy?  Set up an onerous set of bureaucratic protocols forcing citizens to apply for permission to reproduce?  Direct the police to shoot all female babies?  Use stimulus money to build crematoria outside of Nashville?
     It’s certainly true that the planet is suffering from human population overshoot. We’re way beyond “carrying capacity.”  Only the remaining supplies of fossil fuels allow us to continue this process, and not for long, anyway. In the meantime, human reproduction rates are also greatly increasing the supply of idiots relative to resources, and that is especially problematic in the USA, where idiots rule the culture and polity.
      The cocoon of normality prevents us from appreciating how peculiar and special recent times have been in this country. We suppose, tautologically, that because things have always seemed the way they are, that they always have been the way they seem.  The collective human imagination is a treacherous place.
      I’m fascinated by the dominion of moron culture in the USA, in everything from the way we inhabit the landscape – the fiasco of suburbia – to the way we feed ourselves – an endless megatonnage of microwaved Velveeta and corn byproducts – along with the popular entertainment offerings of Reality TV, the Nascar ovals, and the gigantic evangelical church shows beloved in the Heartland. To evangelize a bit myself, if such a concept as “an offense in the sight of God” has any meaning, then the way we conduct ourselves in this land is surely the epitome of it – though this is hardly an advertisement for competing religions, who are well-supplied with morons, too.
     Moron culture in the USA really got full traction after the Second World War. Our victory over the other industrial powers in that struggle was so total and stupendous that the laboring orders here were raised up to economic levels unknown by any peasantry in human history. People who had been virtual serfs trailing cotton sacks in the sunstroke belt a generation back were suddenly living better than Renaissance dukes, laved in air-conditioning, banqueting on “TV dinners,” motoring on a whim to places that would have taken a three-day mule trek in their grandaddy’s day.  Soon, they were buying Buick dealerships and fried chicken franchises and opening banks and building leisure kingdoms of thrill rides and football.  It’s hard to overstate the fantastic wealth that a not-very-bright cohort of human beings was able to accumulate in post-war America.
      And they were able to express themselves – as the great chronicler of these things, Tom Wolfe, has described so often and well – in exuberant “taste cultures” of material life, of which Las Vegas is probably the final summing-up, and every highway strip, of twenty-thousand strips from Maine to Oregon, is the democratic example. These days, I travel the road up the west shore of Lake George, in Warren County, New York, and see the sad, decomposing relics of that culture and that time in all the “playful” motels and leisure-time attractions, with their cracked plastic signs advertising the very things that they exterminated in the quest for adequate parking – the woodland vistas, the paddling Mohicans, the wolf, the moose, the catamount – and I take a certain serene comfort in the knowledge that it is all over now for this stuff and the class of morons that produced it.  
     A very close friend of mine calls them “the yeast people.” They were the democratic masses who thrived in the great fermentation vat of the post World War Two economy. They are now meeting the fate that any yeast population faces when the fermentation process is complete. For the moment, they are only ceasing to thrive.  They are suffering and worrying horribly from the threat that there might be no further fermentation.  The brewers running the vat try to assure them that there’s more sugar left in the mix, and more beer can be made from it, and more yeasts can be brought into this world to enjoy the life of the sweet, moist mash.  In fact, one of the brewers did happen to dump about a trillion-and-a-half teaspoons of sugar into the vat during 2009, and that has produced an illusion of further fermentation. But we know all too well that this artificial stimulus has limits.
      What will happen to the yeast people of the USA?  You can be sure that the outcome will not yield to “policies” and “protocols.”  The economy that produced all that amazing wealth is contracting, and pretty rapidly, too, and the numbers among the yeast will naturally follow the downward arc of the story. Entropy is a harsh mistress. In the immediate offing: a contest for the table scraps of the  20th century. We’ve barely seen the beginning of this, just a little peevishness embodied by yeast shaman figures such as Sarah Palin and Glen Beck. As hardships mount and hardened emotions rise, we’ll see “the usual suspects” come into play: starvation, disease, violence.  We may still be driving around in Ford F-150s, but the Pale Rider is just over the horizon beating a path to our parking-lot-of-the-soul.
      It’s a sad and tragic process and, all lame metaphors aside, there are real human feelings at stake in our prospects for loss of every kind, but especially in the fate of people we love. The human race has known catastrophe before and come through it.  There’s some credible opinion that “this time it’s different” but who really knows?  We have our 2012 apocalypse movies. The people of the 14th century, savaged by the Black Death, had their woodcuts of dancing skeletons. Feudalism was wiped out in that earlier calamity but, whaddaya know, less than a century after that the Renaissance emerged in a wholly new culture of cities.  Maybe we will emerge from our culture of free parking to a new society of living, by necessity, much more lightly on the planet and for a long time, perhaps long enough to allow the terrain to recover from all the free parking.

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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

395 Responses to “The Fate of the Yeast People” Subscribe

  1. Joe November 16, 2009 at 9:32 am #

    First!

  2. suburbanempire November 16, 2009 at 9:33 am #

    A glimpse into McMansion living
    http://www.suburbanempire.com
    Caustic commentary… from Vermont!

  3. AngryBrokerdotcom November 16, 2009 at 9:41 am #

    Once again, Jim, the nail on the head. WHAM! Another observation: People no longer seem to give a damn about quality of product or service. It’s rare these days to get exceptional service anywhere. Perhaps the yeasty froth instills lethargy and apathy as well. But then why would you want to do anything when the wealth (the wealth YOU didn’t earn) is being spread around?
    The bumper sticker I saw last week also hit the nail on the head: “Socialism is a great idea until you run out of other people’s money”

  4. draffen November 16, 2009 at 9:47 am #

    The pot is getting warmer…

  5. Ben Noah November 16, 2009 at 9:51 am #

    As author Richard Heinberg asked: Are we smarter than yeast? I’m afraid I would have to agree with Mr. Kunstler and say NO. It’s been a great ride, albeit at the expense of the rest of the world.
    http://www.academyofshem.com

  6. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown November 16, 2009 at 9:54 am #

    Excellent column this week. Apologies for just doing Monday morning drive-by’s; so many blogs and so little time. A little musical accompaniment for contemplation of the yeast people:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw49mm-CmNo

  7. suburbanempire November 16, 2009 at 10:01 am #

    And when the yeast people start buying things with the proceeds from those Buick Dealerships…. they buy things like McMansions…. and show them off on MTV!
    http://www.suburbanempire.com
    When it comes time to sell that McMansion, (minus equity) the upwardly mobile sputter in disbelief as they mark down real estate…. that turned out to be a bit more like “unreal estate”, as far as perceived values went.
    The best of the “Yeast People” is available for viewing, at any Wal-Mart… and on basic cable!
    See….. The unsustainable lifestyles
    Hear…. The endless whining
    Taste… The cheeesy poofs
    If you live in the US you get front row seats to the biggest freak show ever! Enjoy the view!

  8. Nurdle November 16, 2009 at 10:10 am #

    The overpopulation barkers usually have nothing more to offer than perhaps covering the Earth knee-deep in condoms and aborting those who get past anyway. And if it wasn’t for the EEEEvil religionists standing in the way of enlightened family planning we’d all voluntarily hold our planet to some agreed-upon sustainable population.
    Two things, not entirely unrelated, will take care of the current overpopulation. Disease and famine.
    When energy costs prevent growing and distributing our vast quantities of food to the four corners…people will simply starve. The plus side is that this will be good for the earth.
    And as living conditions deteriorate disease will take care of another pile of people. The added benefit of disease is that it will probably be more…democratic…in its effect than starvation. Rich folk with their pantries full of freeze dried jerky can get smallpox too.
    The overpopulation barkers usually focus on preventing births as a primary factor of reducing populations. But few things match mass death to achieve that same goal.

  9. Nurdle November 16, 2009 at 10:11 am #

    The overpopulation barkers usually have nothing more to offer than perhaps covering the Earth knee-deep in condoms and aborting those who get past anyway. And if it wasn’t for the EEEEvil religionists standing in the way of enlightened family planning we’d all voluntarily hold our planet to some agreed-upon sustainable population.
    Two things, not entirely unrelated, will take care of the current overpopulation. Disease and famine.
    When energy costs prevent growing and distributing our vast quantities of food to the four corners…people will simply starve. The plus side is that this will be good for the earth.
    And as living conditions deteriorate disease will take care of another pile of people. The added benefit of disease is that it will probably be more…democratic…in its effect than starvation. Rich folk with their pantries full of freeze dried jerky can get smallpox too.
    The overpopulation barkers usually focus on preventing births as a primary factor of reducing populations. But few things match mass death to achieve that same goal.

  10. nothing November 16, 2009 at 10:11 am #

    It’s called “creative destruction,” and it may be good in the long run, but there are going to be many victims in the short run.
    Protect yourself and your capital. See http://www.thenothingstore.com

  11. Nurdle November 16, 2009 at 10:11 am #

    Crap. Sorry for the double.

  12. MisterbadExample November 16, 2009 at 10:16 am #

    When i try to explain Peak Oil to those not familiar to the concept, the overpopulation argument is always brought up as part of the peak oil counter-argument, as if one could roll off a spare two or three billion excess people in the third world and fix everything back to spiffiness. The argument, always tinged with a certain racism, is moot at any point now that several such countries are now nuclear-armed and have increasingly less to lose.
    Meanwhile, H1N1 is perhaps the great dress rehearsal for the crux of the problem; our six-billion plus 46- chromosome incubators all diligently at work throughout the world, all breeding toward a new strain of ultra- efficient slate-wiping bacteria. The difference will be that at some point, the patent-holders for the new cure won’t be able to Fedex the refrigerated dosages out fast enough. Overpopulation problem solved.
    It does make for some interesting brunch arguments though…

  13. Lynn Shwadchuck November 16, 2009 at 10:18 am #

    Yes, James, let’s talk about our loved ones. I don’t spend much energy being gleeful about how the monster home dwellers will fuel their furnaces. I think about my young urbanite son whose life is dominated with building esoteric computer skills and buying obscure electronic music equipment. Recently he surprised me by saying he aspires to my lifestyle of living simply on hardly any income in a tiny house in the bush – as soon as he saves enough money to quit his job. How can I say that it’s too late to build up that nest egg? But I was heartened to find out that he at least sees the value. He’s enjoyed my cooking and doesn’t call it ‘hair shirt’ living. I’m making a lot of noise about eating simply because it’s not only a way to take a smaller bite out of planetary resources now, but it’s good practice for a harsh future.
    Lynn Shwadchuck
    http://www.10in10diet.com/
    Diet for a small footprint, and a small grocery bill

  14. John Ludi November 16, 2009 at 10:19 am #

    That was hilarious!
    You sir, are my favorite Elitist (next to myself).

  15. Barter4Booze November 16, 2009 at 10:21 am #

    Yeast is a brilliant metaphor because of its appeal to all: from the Duff-steeped denizens of Springfield to the dazed inheritors of Camelot (another magical kingdom, long ago and far away).
    For yeast cells, there is no way ‘out of the vat’. The choice is clear: Continue to eat and to produce alcohol and carbon dioxide gas, or die.
    American yeast culture is in a similar predicament, but prospects for it though bleak, are not as irredeemable as those of the yeast cells who are ultimately doomed to settle into inebriated quiescence at the bottom of the secondary fermenter, at the final the end of transformative process of filtration. For yeast cells, the final irony is, that their own waste is ultimately valued more than they themselves! Who would’ve thunk it? What yeast cell could’ve thunk it? What North American yeast culture might yet think it, and stop short of a similar fate?
    Nothing will replace oil, but there’s a lot that North American yeast culture can do to ameliorate the effects of losing oil. I would respectfully submit that the substitution of ‘mental energy’ for other forms of energy might be an excellent place to start.
    Now, back to my Corn Flakes . . . .

  16. CynicalOne November 16, 2009 at 10:21 am #

    I give a damn but I am disappointed and disgusted at every turn. You are correct.
    As for spreading the wealth, I can’t believe that notion can possibly produce the desired result. I’m looking for unintended consequences down the line.

  17. anotherplayaguy November 16, 2009 at 10:27 am #

    Entropy is the harshest of mistresses. She don’t take no excuses.
    On the other hand, … (there is no other hand).

  18. wagelaborer November 16, 2009 at 10:35 am #

    To illustrate the point that people can only imagine what they know, look at the posters who indignantly reject the very idea of “sharing the wealth” as un-American and against human nature.
    When, actually, until class divided society, wealth was indeed shared among the tribe.
    I was just talking with some friends about the after-human-Earth, when something would evolve that eats plastic, and how they would thrive and multiply until the plastic ran out.
    One predicted that there would be some plastic eaters that would notice the plastic was running out, and try to warn the others, but the others would pooh pooh them and say that god loves them and would provide plastic forever.
    I think he’s right.

  19. wardoc November 16, 2009 at 10:55 am #

    “Entropy is a harsh mistress.”
    Right on target as usual. This statement pretty much sums up the reality we all are facing at present. But the so called “yeast people” are going to be increasingly frustrated, devastatingly disappointed at their lives, very angry, and heavily armed. There will be a war against entropy. Question is, toward whom will it be directed. I.e. who will be designated as the “representative of entropy” toward whom anger and disappointment will be directed?
    wardoc

  20. wardoc November 16, 2009 at 10:55 am #

    “Entropy is a harsh mistress.”
    Right on target as usual. This statement pretty much sums up the reality we all are facing at present. But the so called “yeast people” are going to be increasingly frustrated, devastatingly disappointed at their lives, very angry, and heavily armed. There will be a war against entropy. Question is, toward whom will it be directed. I.e. who will be designated as the “representative of entropy” toward whom anger and disappointment will be directed?
    wardoc

  21. wardoc November 16, 2009 at 10:56 am #

    “Entropy is a harsh mistress.”
    Right on target as usual. This statement pretty much sums up the reality we all are facing at present. But the so called “yeast people” are going to be increasingly frustrated, devastatingly disappointed at their lives, very angry, and heavily armed. There will be a war against entropy. Question is, toward whom will it be directed. I.e. who will be designated as the “representative of entropy” toward whom anger and disappointment will be directed?
    wardoc

  22. Laura Louzader November 16, 2009 at 10:59 am #

    This blog and its commentators have alike hit a new moral low with today’s blog post.
    How easy it is to visualize the suffering of those we despise and consider to be a vastly lower form of life than ourselves. It’s awfully easy to visit our contempt on the people we imagine spend their lives breeding, drinking beer, watching crap entertainment, and careening up and down the interstates in 12mpg SUVs.
    But is there a single person posting here, including JHK, who can really say that he or she is morally superior to the “yeast” people in their SUVs and 3000 sq ft plastic houses in the sprawlburbs? Is there anyone among us who doesn’t stand to suffer life-threatening losses as our society unwinds, including not only amenity and basic decencies, but our health and lives? Is there anyone posting here who can state with any truth that he or she is prepared to carry on life on any terms independent of the gifts of modern culture, and who can really insulate himself from the destructive blowback of an imploding civilization with rapidly shrinking supplies of absolutely everything necessary to support life on any terms?
    Those of you who prefer the operations of the four horsemen to birth control and abortion, please be the first to volunteer your own life in the cause of population reduction. Keep in mind that when the food shortages and pandemics hit, that you and yours will not be able to shelter yourselves from the disorder and shortages and sudden loss of every decency just because you fancy yourselves to be among the “elite”. Your little 12-gauge shotgun might help you head off a home invader or two but it won’t head off a rampaging horde of starving, desperate people….. that just might include you.
    Let’s hope that our people somehow cope, and learn to do better. Let’s hope they learn really fast. Most of all, let’s really, really hope that we can all learn a little kindness, and that goes double for the author of this blog and some of the people posting here, whose hatred for humanity seems so intense you wonder how they can even stand themselves.

  23. tresho November 16, 2009 at 11:01 am #

    The people of the 14th century, savaged by the Black Death, had their woodcuts of dancing skeletons. At the moment, there’s a billboard in Albuquerque advertising liquor, which depicts a woodcut-type image of dancing skeletons wearing festive clothes, and the caption “Party like it’s 1725.” This is related to El Día de los Muertos which was recently celebrated with local parades & parties. It was a bit unnerving to encounter kids of kindergarten age with their faces made up to resemble skulls. Some cultures preserve the memory of centuries past, where ancestors lived very ‘close to the bone.’

  24. jean contes November 16, 2009 at 11:04 am #

    Excellent as usual JHK! And very funny!
    We are fleeing to the world of “Idiocracy” (fantastic and realistic movie by the way) but we’ll arrive sooner that 500 years.
    The WWII American victory hided some real problems of US.
    In fact the geography (two oceans) have stopped any invasion or full scale destruction (that was not the case in Europe or Asia).
    To loose means sometimes to win (later). America from the Civil War never experienced a real war or defeat (military or otherwise)…
    The hubris did the rest (“the end of history” , “american exceptionalism” and so on).
    We are repeating the Roman Empire experience…
    So nobody learned from history…

  25. Bicycle Tourist November 16, 2009 at 11:18 am #

    This time, you motivated me to sign on. I was beginning to wonder if I was a complete snob or if our country really has been getting dumber. Thanks for broaching the subject.
    The old bromide, “Go West, young man”, probably became bad advice about a century ago. What’s left? Go to Mars, young man?

  26. Jeff November 16, 2009 at 11:24 am #

    Jim,
    the yeast metaphor is an interesting and provocative one but with some serious limitations. The yeast in a vat of beer, after all, are all working together in a non-hierarchical, natural and self-directed way to produce something useful, a characteristic I don’t see widely paralleled in American culture.
    There is no meaningful possibility that a population of yeast is going to produce technology sufficient to allow self-sustenance without the need for exogenous infusions of additional sugar — at least, not on any time scale short enough to be of comfort to an individual yeast organism.
    By contrast, the principal challenges we seem to be facing are more political, social and economic than technical. Sure, cold fusion might be nice (then again, it might produce more aggravated concentrations of wealth and power than we’re bedeviled by now), and odds of a breakthrough of that sort, while probably small and certainly difficult to predict, are certainly in the realm of the possible. Regardless, we might well get by nicely even with existing technology merely by living lives reordered along saner lines.

  27. nobodaddy November 16, 2009 at 11:25 am #

    Thank you, Laura Louzader. Finally someone speaking the truth here.

  28. Michael Janzen November 16, 2009 at 11:27 am #

    I really love that you say the things that most people won’t. Yeast People… love it.
    I personally hope they wake up and figure out that under all that yeast is the core of a human being. There are so many of us who have figured it out and believe that we’re moving toward a sustainable existence but sadly the majority have their heads neatly tucked in the… yeast (haha).
    What will happen to the Yeast People? Zombies with guns me thinks. Not sure they will know how to survive any other way. For those of us all cleaned up… best to stay clear of the mess best we can.

  29. Steve M. November 16, 2009 at 11:30 am #

    The first thing we should do reform higher education to educate the yeast people and make them more appreciative of reality. First, we bulldoze the “land grant diploma mills” – I’d start with California State University at Long Beach, where Kwanzaa was invented. Then, we shut down the “Christian” colleges – Bob Jones is first! Then we reform the remaining colleges and universities to teach classical languages, the history of the Renaissance, and Western philosphy, once we make it clear what the Bill of Rights REALLY means. We tell the conservatives who complain about the dearth of American subjects and the women and minorities who charge cultural bias to shut the f*** up. Meanwhile, we close all the graduate schools that train rather than educate people in various professions not related to the humanities. We keep the med and law schools, but we get rid of business schools, journalism schools, and their ilk. Want to be a reporter? Go to work as a copy boy out of high school. The current American higher education system encourages Americans to, as Paul Fussell once wrote, make a pile if money and live a life untroubled by thought.

  30. Wendigo November 16, 2009 at 11:31 am #

    In Canada the fertility rate is 1.6, far below the often quoted 2.2 required to maintain the population. However, Canada’s population will increase from 33 million to 43 million in 2050 according to a UN report. As the UN report states, this increase is due to immigration.
    Most western countries have fertility rates that would result in declining populations. These are the same western countries that have highest energy consumption rates, and the most environmental impact.
    JHK’s post today is quite erroneous. Countries like the USA, Canada, UK, Germany, etc. would all have declining populations if not for immigration. JHK’s comments on possible state interference in reproduction are really off the mark. The governments of “developed” countries can choose to have a growing, stable, or declining population, just by adjusting the immigration rate.
    It is surprising that JHK hasn’t grasped this reality.
    The developed western countries still need to make the behavior changes necessary to live within the “carrying capacity” of the land. Expanding the population doesn’t help.

  31. goldmund November 16, 2009 at 11:35 am #

    Here in Minneapolis an asphalt parking lot was actually turned into a public park, albeit a very manicured one. People like to hang out in it though- no one hangs out in a parking lot. The nice thing about abandoned parking lots is that they’re ideal for turning into community gardens. There’s plenty of sun, it’s just a matter of chopping up the asphalt and allowing a few years to improve the soil… Regarding all the comments about starvation and disease, I notice people never seem to include themselves as possible victims of the coming calamities. No one is an island, what befalls the human race will probably be our fate as well. Working for a sustainable future is a much batter way to spend one’s energy than being smuggly self-righteous, don’t you think? Morons indeed!

  32. Desertrat November 16, 2009 at 11:40 am #

    Laura, what does “moral superiority” have to do with anything?
    JHK has pointed out some facts. It doesn’t matter if he feels smug about having identified the problems resulting from the societal behavior: The facts remain.
    It’s not a matter of preference for the Four Horsemen; they’re coming toward us even in the face of birth control and abortion. BC&A are inefficacious against reality.
    XXX years from now, the lack of affordable liquid fuel will mean that mechanized farming won’t be able to feed the 6.7 billion people we have today. Large scale organic farming and home gardens might at best feed three or four billion. Period. End of story.
    And the present destruction of capital means that we can’t avoid winding down from our wealthy life styles–IMO, anyway.
    Hope is all well and good, as is compassion, etc. Trouble is, masses of people have not historically provided reasons for hope. For some, that 12-gauge shotgun will work. For others, not. And nobody knows which.
    Your heart’s in the right place, but facts and reality don’t care.
    Look: Kunstler is a young guy, what, 61? Forty years back he didn’t have today’s hindsight. Maybe twenty years back he started getting a jaundiced eye toward the way society was behaving. I started long before then, myself. Ten years back or thereabouts, maybe, he got into terminal nervous about where we’re headed, and has done a bunch of good homework and, overall, rational prognostication. I got twitchy in the middle 1980s, myself, but I didn’t do nearly as much research. What I’ve looked into during these last half-dozen years, however, has at least made me a kindred spirit.
    Facts are neither moral nor immoral. They just sit there and stare at you with indifference.
    Best to you,
    ‘Rat

  33. suburbanempire November 16, 2009 at 11:43 am #

    Oh honey…. we ARE the yeast people! All of us! Just because we can see the problems, does not mean any of us visiting (or presumably writing) this blog think we are above the fray!
    But it is fun to make fun of others who haven’t figured out that the light at the end of the tunnel is; in fact, a train.
    http://www.suburbanempire.com

  34. Desertrat November 16, 2009 at 11:44 am #

    Laura, what does “moral superiority” have to do with anything?
    JHK has pointed out some facts. It doesn’t matter if he feels smug about having identified the problems resulting from the societal behavior: The facts remain.
    It’s not a matter of preference for the Four Horsemen; they’re coming toward us even in the face of birth control and abortion. BC&A are inefficacious against reality.
    XXX years from now, the lack of affordable liquid fuel will mean that mechanized farming won’t be able to feed the 6.7 billion people we have today. Large scale organic farming and home gardens might at best feed three or four billion. Period. End of story.
    And the present destruction of capital means that we can’t avoid winding down from our wealthy life styles–IMO, anyway.
    Hope is all well and good, as is compassion, etc. Trouble is, masses of people have not historically provided reasons for hope. For some, that 12-gauge shotgun will work. For others, not. And nobody knows which.
    Your heart’s in the right place, but facts and reality don’t care.
    Look: Kunstler is a young guy, what, 61? Forty years back he didn’t have today’s hindsight. Maybe twenty years back he started getting a jaundiced eye toward the way society was behaving. I started long before then, myself. Ten years back or thereabouts, maybe, he got into terminal nervous about where we’re headed, and has done a bunch of good homework and, overall, rational prognostication. I got twitchy in the middle 1980s, myself, but I didn’t do nearly as much research. What I’ve looked into during these last half-dozen years, however, has at least made me a kindred spirit.
    Facts are neither moral nor immoral. They just sit there and stare at you with indifference.
    Best to you,
    ‘Rat

  35. whm November 16, 2009 at 11:52 am #

    If we were truly an intelligent species we would have begun 30 years ago to humanely and democratically bring world population in line with renewable resources. A voluntary (and incentivized) sterilization program for any persons who do not wish to bear or father more children could be started. The amount of the incentive could be adjusted every few years depending on the success of the program. Perhaps a cash payment equal to 10% of the per capita annual income would be a place to start. I

  36. jean contes November 16, 2009 at 11:55 am #

    The fall (collapse) happens always to lesser levels than anyone before could imagine.
    When Romans leaved Great Britain (its ancient territory) the material culture collapsed to a pre Bronze Age level.
    For example the inhabitants didn’t use the pottery wheel (they forgot it long time ago). So they fall some 2000 years below Roman level.
    And they (the Britons ) were an easy pray for Saxon invaders (a primitive but warlike society).
    In our case the fall may go dawn to some sort of Pleistocene level (the higer the starting point the deeper the fall).
    But without big prays around (no mammoths, not even buffaloes) to eat the situation would be much, much worse.
    The “zombie movies” may give us a realistic flavor of such a post “peak oil” environment.
    Or cannibal movies…
    So, enjoy the show (being a part of it)?

  37. jean contes November 16, 2009 at 11:56 am #

    The fall (collapse) happens always to lesser levels than anyone before could imagine.
    When Romans leaved Great Britain (its ancient territory) the material culture collapsed to a pre Bronze Age level.
    For example the inhabitants didn’t use the pottery wheel (they forgot it long time ago). So they fall some 2000 years below Roman level.
    And they (the Britons ) were an easy pray for Saxon invaders (a primitive but warlike society).
    In our case the fall may go dawn to some sort of Pleistocene level (the higher the starting point the deeper the fall).
    But without big prays around (no mammoths, not even buffaloes) to eat the situation would be much, much worse.
    The “zombie movies” may give us a realistic flavor of such a post “peak oil” environment.
    Or cannibal movies…
    So, enjoy the show (being a part of it)?

  38. Nickelthrower November 16, 2009 at 11:56 am #

    Greetings,
    I can say that I’m one of those people.
    I live on a 30′ sailboat in S. California. I’ve converted my appliances to run off of DC current and I’m in the process of removing myself from the electric grid. Oh yeah, my electric bill last month was $13. I can let the wind push my home anywhere I want to go including China if I felt like it. Also, I’m learning to extract drinkable water from the ocean by use of solar stills.
    For work, I wander the electric junkyards of L.A. and look for discarded electronics that I transform into sought after vintage style tube equipment used in the film and recording industry. When those industries go away, I’ll still have skills that are very much in demand because I can build and fix things.
    I’ve managed to do all this in the last year because it became quite apparent to me that the ability to float off into the ocean when the famine/virus/riots begins is worth the trade-off of giving up my suburban lifestyle.
    In the new world coming, only the crafty will survive.

  39. jean contes November 16, 2009 at 11:57 am #

    The fall (collapse) happens always to lesser levels than anyone before could imagine.
    When Romans leaved Great Britain (its ancient territory) the material culture collapsed to a pre Bronze Age level.
    For example the inhabitants didn’t use the pottery wheel (they forgot it long time ago). So they fall some 2000 years below Roman level.
    And they (the Britons ) were an easy pray for Saxon invaders (a primitive but warlike society).
    In our case the fall may go dawn to some sort of Pleistocene level (the higher the starting point the deeper the fall).
    But without big prays around (no mammoths, not even buffaloes) to eat the situation would be much, much worse.
    The “zombie movies” may give us a realistic flavor of such a post “peak oil” environment.
    Or cannibal movies…
    So, enjoy the show (being a part of it)?

  40. suburbanempire November 16, 2009 at 12:02 pm #

    Well said rat! I am forty, and my awareness of the realitys of our lifestyle came about when I was four….. my first memory in life is that of waiting in line for gas! It was a cloudy day in Buffalo, and there we were sitting in our Datsun all day waiting for gas.
    My parents took action and moved to a ranch where I spent the rest of my childhood, living a simpler life growing food and hay. A direct result of USA production peak.
    My blog reflects cynicism of suburbia, and worry of the rest of the people “not getting it” when it comes to energy realities.
    Kunstler spent time in one of the first suburbs, and his postings reflect an idea that he looked around and saw people “not getting it” too.
    Perhaps it is to simplistic to call our collective “morons”….. until you drive through a place like Highlands Ranch, Colorado……
    …. and you are left with the impression that we ARE morons.
    I have spent the last three years, with my nose in books about oil at home, and driving around (using oil) in the pursuit of knowledge of oil when on “vacation”, I have been all over Texas, from Beaumont to Crane, Pennsylvania is next.
    The story of oil is a big one, and it is the story of us…. to a larger extent then we give credit, it takes a lot of time to study too!
    Perhaps it is unfair to label those who only have time to gain their oil knowledge from the news as stupid, but after all… they ARE getting their knowledge from the “news” … so mabye not.

  41. whm November 16, 2009 at 12:05 pm #

    cont. (Sorry, but the message went before I was finished.) The incentives for sterilization program would have to be made available without regard to sex, income, ethnicity,etc. Perhaps some age restrictions would be in order. Who would object? Probably some leaders of religious sects and ethnic minorities but I will bet most individuals in those same groups would not object to being paid $4000. Where would the money come from? That is definitely a problem and that is why we should have started the program while we were still a rich, first-world country. Where would the money come from for poor countries? It would probably have to come from the richer countries. But remember, 10% of $500 (the annual income in much of the world) is a lot less than 10% of 40,000. The payments would be cheap in the long run. WHM

  42. Mike Green November 16, 2009 at 12:10 pm #

    I’d like to put in a word for the nonhuman animals that are suffering and will continue to suffer as a result of this catastrophes Mr. K describes.
    Animal shelters are overflowing with pets given up by people who have lost their homes, while other people simply abandon animals to the streets. Of course during times of stress, a pet is too often the convenient punching bag for cruel people.
    Animals in failing industries will also suffer, as the owners of those industries decide that everything from veterinary care to food is just not worth it…for them.
    Wildlife will suffer and die as their habitat is taken for whatever money can be wrung from it, and as the animals themselves are hunted down even more intensively for use by people.
    As always, the weak and vulnerable are the first victims of the creeps who ran everything into the ground.

  43. CaptSpaulding November 16, 2009 at 12:12 pm #

    One thing that strikes me as funny is hearing commentators & others predict that continued bad times will provide the Republicans with victories in future elections. I read somewhere that the definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over & over and expecting a different result each time. Even though both parties can be blamed, the Republicans had eight years, six of them in control of the Presidency, house & senate, and fucked everything to a fare-thee-well. Why would people expect a different result the next time? It’ll probably happen though, since most people don’t seem to know how to think rationally. I’m not saying the Democrats are the answer either, in fact I don’t know who could get us out of this clusterfuck. My best guess is that we will have to just live out the ugly times that are coming and deal with it. Something I don’t look forward to.

  44. suburbanempire November 16, 2009 at 12:12 pm #

    Arrrrrr….Mateie but ya might just be subject to scallywags anyway…….
    …. There are gonna be Pirates to deal with once the Coast Guard is busy…….and no longer making those waters safe.
    http://www.suburbanempire.com

  45. suburbanempire November 16, 2009 at 12:13 pm #

    Arrrrrr….Mateie but ya might just be subject to scallywags anyway…….
    …. There are gonna be Pirates to deal with once the Coast Guard is busy…….and no longer making those waters safe.
    http://www.suburbanempire.com

  46. UnlikelyMoniker November 16, 2009 at 12:19 pm #

    Calm down dear! There was no moral superiority on the Titanic after she crashed into the Great White Equalizer. I’m pretty sure that most commentators here appreciate that their personal chances of surviving a full-on collapse scenario are about one-zillionth of those of a Titanic passenger. Superiority or survival are neither implied nor expected. Have you never heard of gallows humour?
    We’re humans. We love humanity…our friends, our families, the authors, artists and others whose work we respect. We’re appalled, mortified, f***king angry that so much knowledge, beauty and truth, realised both in our time and reaching back in history to pre-agrarian times, is once again going to be lost in the shredder of unavoidable collapse.
    It’s 20 years too late to do much, if anything, about it now. Even if everyone in the world “got responsible” about population tomorrow, we’d all have gone over the net energy cliff long before our sublime restraint bore fruit – or rather didn’t bear anyone.
    I’m a registered member of a green political party, belong to a local currency trading scheme, support our Transition initiative and so on. I work for caring, sharing, self-supportive communities.
    BUT. That doesn’t make JHK’s portrayal of the global human predicament any less accurate. This isn’t David and Goliath – a half decent chance with fair wind a bit of help from God. This is the ants nest and a cosmic pan of boiling water. As we Brits like to say: “Well, you have to have laugh, don’t you?”
    As for this blog, in the words of an American leader (who, incidentally, signed-off two of history’s most effective one-day-only population-reduction events): “If you don’t understand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.”
    I may have misquoted him there.

  47. how it grows November 16, 2009 at 12:24 pm #

    I’ve been reading your blog for about a year now and I’m not sure why, but your Monday morning doom and gloom always brightens my day!

  48. Cash November 16, 2009 at 12:26 pm #

    I agree with Laura that this mornings’ blog post is repellant. It has the sound of pure evil. There isn’t a place in deepest darkest hell hot enough to reward such talk.
    So Mr. Kunstler is so superior that he gets to equate my life and hundreds of millions of other human lives as “yeast”? So Mr Kunstler gets to eat well but this “peasantry”, as he calls us, with our “TV dinners” aren’t entitled like him? We’re so low, in his opinion, we should be breaking our backs again as “virtual serfs”? What about him? I’d like to see him trailing cotton sacks in the sunstroke belt. See how he likes it. We’ll see how Mr. Kunstler, in his “certain serene comfort”, and his cheerleaders cope if our civilization and way of life collapse.
    I know nothing about Mr Kunstler but he has the sound of someone who hasn’t known real hunger and misery. We’ll see if Mr Kunstler changes his tune if gets a taste of the “usual suspects”, as he calls them, “starvation, disease, violence”. A week without food ought to wipe the superior smirk right off his face. When you’re knocking at death’s door from starvation meals of Velveeta and corn byproducts are going to sound awfully good.

  49. Freedom Guerrilla November 16, 2009 at 12:32 pm #

    Thank you, Jim. You always help me focus, and this is one of the only reasons I look forward to Mondays…for a little perspective.
    Please visit me at:
    http://freedomguerrilla.com/

  50. Freedom Guerrilla November 16, 2009 at 12:33 pm #

    Thank you, Jim. You always help me focus, and this is one of the only reasons I look forward to Mondays…for a little perspective.
    Please visit me at:
    http://freedomguerrilla.com/

  51. TedC November 16, 2009 at 12:33 pm #

    I think that only the more socialist countries like Norway, Denmark and Sweden will survive in the future. There they have made a commitment to the common good. Many commenters here disparage socialism, but if you actually take the time to learn about those places, life seem pretty nice.
    Too bad we’re so caught up in the attitude of ‘Fuck the losers’. Maybe someday you will be the loser, then what? Having brown or white skin won’t matter so much then. I almost can’t believe it, but we are apparently letting racism kill us. I used to think that was over.
    I think America will just go on a homicidal rampage. Look at how this country was founded – Theft, murder, etc. We will harvest what we have sown.
    I used to like this country when I was younger. Lately, I’m disgusted. Too many crazy people.

  52. Freedom Guerrilla November 16, 2009 at 12:34 pm #

    Thank you, Jim. You always help me focus, and this is one of the only reasons I look forward to Mondays…for a little perspective.
    Please visit me at:
    http://freedomguerrilla.com/

  53. messianicdruid November 16, 2009 at 12:42 pm #

    I prefer “leaven” to “yeast”. We were warned about leaven and most chose to ignore it.
    The leaven of the Pharisees gave us man-made religion; taking God’s words and giving them new meanings according to our limited understanding and/or preferences and in some cases we simp;y built upon what we inherited from our parents. A new religion for every person on the planet, leading of course to chaos.
    The leaven of the Sadducees gave us no-god, no after-this-life, no accountability, accept maybe{rarely} to each other. Those who inbibe this leaven puff-up into gods {rulemakers} philosophizing, worshipping & pontificating upon the intellect. Most of them are too smart to follow the rules they make for others.
    The leaven of the Essenes gave us isolationism. They knew and chose to withdraw from the society of nations, tribes, clans, families and in some cases, other individuals. They die alone and their truth dies with them.
    The leaven of Herod gave us political intrigue, deal-making, cronyism, nepotism, divide and conquer, propoganda {party labels and “platforms”} and the “SCIENCE” of economics.
    All these leavens have worked together to produce America. Other continents {loaves} have less amalgamation of leaven. This loaf has risen to it’s highest level and now it must go into the oven, so that all that leaven can be burned out.
    The people are not the leaven.
    http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/FFI/article.cfm?AID=134

  54. UnlikelyMoniker November 16, 2009 at 12:46 pm #

    JHK offers both predictions (as in today’s essay) and prescriptions (often related to urban design). It can help to take the time to make sure you understand which of the two he’s doing before posting vitriolic responses.
    Just a thought. Desert Rat said it better than me.

  55. seb November 16, 2009 at 12:57 pm #

    It is extremely difficult to post when all the pens are in the car. I put my forehead against the wall and that always scares me, it reminding me of cracking my skull on the asphalt at 55 m.p.h. I never did that, but, how can you help but to be afraid of it?
    You people are not commentators (Louzader). Eric Serereid is a commentator. The comments are flying in thick and fast. It was 34, then I refreshed, and it must have doubled. I am still going to just post, and not descend into name-calling yet.
    Notice, any of you, I posted tautology last week(notice how Kuntler works the timing of his blog. He is one of those overnight sensations who worked at his craft 20 years, one of those truisms, also a paradox), along with solipsism and epistemology.
    Your example of a tautology is textbook perfect, Jim, appealing at even the level of chemistry, where we define tautomers. Thank you for the honr. I did work hard here and kept my thinking unmuddled. It is like an office, my bachelor efficiency unit in downtown San Diego. City living is new to me. The dogs, I don’t know how they do it. It is concrete all around. They live somewhere and come out with their owners on a leash. But, I saw some liquid dog poop in the sidewalk that I agree, no one with a baggie turned inside-out on her hand is going to neatly save in her cashmere car coat. Now use topology.
    I used paradox. Use paragon.
    Yeah, the rest of you dog-faced boys and pig-faced girls, does Kuntler read you? You don’t seem so proud.
    I got a couple more, but I’m composing on the typewriter, so don’t jostle me. The ESP, in my new theorick, is not really, really weak, it is, to the contrary, strong. As it occurs (unplanned things occur, murders, profiting from weapons sales, take place), in a long string, much like a Jewish comedian on a roll, it runs out of believable coincidence, where it sheds light on what your thinking, casting auspices, delivering counterexamples. It runs out, like a wet dream after you aready woke up. It can’t exceed the carrying capacity of likelihood. You’d know you were in a dream. I realized yesterday that imaginary numbers (cf complex, rational, natural, whole, trancendental, irrational) are imaginable, and thanks to two posts ago (“Thinking the Unthinkable”), I mean, mathematicians aren’t dumb people. What did they mean, “imaginary numbers”? Where are the unimaginable numbers? Well, they are in topology. We’re not going to overcome entropy (ever); Joel Osmont, wait. Popular televangelists.
    Jimmy Swaggart is not going to plead with heaven to make some more oil, even if he closes his eyes. He might do well very soon with a blindfold, however. And a cigarette, get it? A last cigarette?
    So (that always comes out ‘soap’, when I think it), the Jewish comedy experience. Checking, yes, Jerry Lewis is a Jew. Well, they sem so, …’they semitic so, ..they seem it so. Hm, kismet. They seem too funny to be doing that with normal intelligence. I bring it up since, i. I saw Mr. Saturday Night, with Billy Crystal, and ii. Kunstler just seems like the first Jewish President. You know?
    Any way, (Jewish-American), the blog post was deeply disturbing. What do you mean, sir, “a very close friend”? Closer than me? I’m sorry I never shook your hand, but I feel like stalking you now. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth. And that post! It is really scary (scarified, scarabaeus). Whew! Kunstler is a harsh mistress.
    http://sbillinghurst.wordpress.com

  56. halifax40 November 16, 2009 at 1:07 pm #

    Nice post Jim,
    I think the idiots to resources ratio could be a very useful indicator in working out the resilience of a given community. This likely applies to online communities as well.
    D

  57. bruciejo November 16, 2009 at 1:12 pm #

    A survey on MSNBC today found that 38% thought Sarah Palin was qualified to be president!!! God help us!!!

  58. messianicdruid November 16, 2009 at 1:13 pm #

    Where is Kuno when you need him?
    http://www.plexus.org/forster/index.html

  59. dale November 16, 2009 at 1:16 pm #

    Laura,
    Perhaps we should be thought of as “self aware yeast”

  60. dale November 16, 2009 at 1:17 pm #

    Laura,
    Perhaps we should be thought of as “self aware yeast”

  61. UnlikelyMoniker November 16, 2009 at 1:32 pm #

    Handy Hints Int’l says:
    To avoid posting multiple comments unnecessarily, if you see the following when you press ‘submit’:

    Internal Server Error
    “The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
    “Please contact the server administrator, jhkunstler@mac.com and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
    “More information about this error may be available in the server error log.
    Apache/2.2.3 (Red Hat) Server at kunstler.com Port 80”

    Do not go back and refresh or re-post. Instead, open JHK’s site in a new tab or browser window and scroll to the bottom of the comments. Chances are that your comment will have posted after all.
    I try to remember to hit CTRL-A, CTRL-C right before clicking ‘Submit’. It copies what’s in the text entry area to the clipboard in case Moveable Type really did lose your words.

  62. Clouseau2 November 16, 2009 at 1:34 pm #

    Small correction: It’s Glenn Beck, not Glen Beck — aka captain of the idiots. I can’t watch him for more than a few minutes at a time before endangering my triple-IQ score.

  63. IntegralResearchSociety November 16, 2009 at 1:39 pm #

    Steve M.-
    Good suggestion. I recently looked into the work of Nobel Laureate Elinor Ostrom and got a reminder of why specialization is such a problem. While she and her colleagues nibble at the edges of some good ideas, change/enlightenment will come through people reading “Ishmael” rather than “Rules, Games, and Common-Pool Resources.” I’ve contacted a local (Spokane) community college and a prestigious university in the east with the idea of re-tooling their curriculum. I haven’t heard back from them.
    Let me know (theinnclub [at] yahoo.com) if you are interested in building the type of institution that you describe. It will have to be a ground-up endeavor as the specialists at the top may talk the talk of providing a true liberal arts education but they are unwilling to walk the talk as it would put their own specialized livelihoods in jeopardy.
    Matt Holbert
    Spokane, WA

  64. Laura Louzader November 16, 2009 at 1:44 pm #

    The truth of JHK’s vision is one thing, the pleasure he and other commentators here take in anticipating the suffering and death of about 80% of the population of this planet is another… and it is ugly.
    Let me say just this: that if indeed we experience a steep, rapid dieback of 5/6 of the planet’s human population from starvation, disease, violence, and sheer shock, that there won’t remain much hope for the remaining 1/6, and that the rest of us will quickly follow the dying hordes.
    For this time, the collapse really will be different from those societal collapses (the Maya, the Roman Empire, Europe after the plague) that preceded. The people of those eras could at least think that they were victims of the gods, and that there was another place to which they could escape and rebuild.
    We know better. We know that each and every one of us in some manner contributed to creating the non-negotiable conditions- rapidly shrinking resources including oil, arable land, and water combined with uncontrollable population growth- and we also know that there is no place to escape to and nothing better awaiting us. I’d like to imagine that a return to “simpler” ways would better our lives and enable us to build societies that are civilized and sustainable, and individual lives worth living, but cursory reading of social history says otherwise.
    What it says is that a regression to pre-tech lifestyles will mean a return to the filth and brutality of the past. Class tyrannies will reassert themselves. Slavery and bondage will once again become the norm in this country as well as in 4th world hellholes. And if you think that the amusements of modern-day common folk are vulgar and tasteless, wait till you see what most people resort to for amusement in the post-tech future of mass poverty and powerlessness. Public executions will be major draws, and lynchings will be another way to vent rage and frustration. It will be EXTREMELY unsafe to be unpopular or “weird”.
    I sincerely hope that those on this forum who gloat over the return of the “peasantry” to the filth, deprivation, and misery of the past don’t feel too cheated when they themselves end up among the 95% of the population that ends up living in shanties and doing farm work for a living.
    Or do you all fancy that you yourselves are among the “elite” that will once again be able to employ staffs of 20 servants who work for a bowl of gruel a day and sleep on straw under the eaves?
    I’ll settle for being part of the 80% that pass on, thank you.

  65. Consultant November 16, 2009 at 1:48 pm #

    “What is un-Amreican is to “take” others’ wealth.”
    Isn’t this what the Europeans did to Africans (slavery) and Native Americans (taking their land and forced removal to reservations)?
    Our country has a long, long history of taking other people’s wealth. Which is why the Wall St. bankers are so good at it.

  66. AmusedOnlooker November 16, 2009 at 1:55 pm #

    Each Monday I relish reading the new comments posted here. The world won’t implode but if it does I’ll be the first one to stop at your house and eat you for dinner. LOL, you all think you are superior. Welcome to the jungle fools.

  67. seb November 16, 2009 at 2:13 pm #

    It’s not about forced sterilization; it is not to be redirected into yet another relgious diatribe (you are pitilessly arguing religion and hoping for apocalyptic confirmation), it is in the title itself, it is giving voice to the inevitable comparative image of the bacteria-in-a-petri-dish we must address or be driven mad by its refusal to go away. It is part and parcel of being human. “Image” was invented by Shakespeare. It means painting a picture with words. I do it in the thing of never (hardly) possessing guns, yet “seeing” this or that judge in the imaginary sights of some weapon. I wouldn’t dream of catching my last $10,000 before it disappears anyhow by spending a “wise” $1,500 on a .30-30 or something, little scope on top, at so many yards. The cops waste far more money on ammo to train. They work out. They hire the people they need to flush me out, outdraw me, try and convict me.
    This is vicarious imagination natural to one who don’t know to begin with the five-year old mouth, saying, “One, two, fwee, foe-uh”. Hearing that will change you. Mr. Kunstler doesn’t have any kids. He’s right anyway.
    We’re on the fucking internet. I don’t need Verizon/Google. If brains were dynamite, they don’t have enough between them to blow their nose. All we got to do is have a sidebar (where all the ads are?), with the smilies controlling the syntax, instead of acting as if the words create the reality. Nah, whirlwind harvesters, Freudian lock-step japes, Pavlovian pod-people, reality creates the words!. Ludi was okay.
    The rest of you I’d like to meet in the geographical center of the continental USA (definitely excluding Alaska), and we will divide into two teams and rumble with shivs and chains. I’ll leave it up to each of you to Google that. We got to go to the nearest town, like Lee Marvin in The Wild One. I hope there is at least a pop stand.

  68. dale November 16, 2009 at 2:28 pm #

    “Or do you all fancy that you yourselves are among the “elite” that will once again be able to employ staffs of 20 servants who work for a bowl of gruel a day and sleep on straw under the eaves?”
    ===================================
    I would ask if you are among the “elite” who thinks they know what will happen next… and when?
    The game is way, way too complicated for that…..trends DO suggest things which don’t look very good…..but no one knows when those trends might produce such sour fruit as you and JHK suggest, and you simply can’t rule out a game breaker that will change the equation for the foreseeable future.
    Like I’ve said before, we’re all just along for the ride, including all the soosayers, technical analysts, doomsday predictors, biblical prophecy buffs etc.
    We’re all living in the present, subject to the unknown and unknowable future, get use to it. Wheee!

  69. Dan Treecraft November 16, 2009 at 2:28 pm #

    Hats off to The King of Carp!
    James – you’re on a brilliant hot-streak, lately. I snarkled at every-other sentence. Thanks for making the End Of Industrial Civilization so wickedly delightful to read about.
    Here at our house, we’re still peeing, (etc), in drinkable fresh water, but not for much longer — the composting toilet is nearly ready to fire up.
    BRAVO!

  70. slingshot November 16, 2009 at 2:33 pm #

    “Down the highway, down the tracks, down the road to ecstasy.
    I followed you beneath the stars, hounded by your memory, And all your ragin’ glory.
    Idiot wind, blowing like a circle around my skull.
    From the Grand Coulee Dam to the Capitol”.

  71. catman306 November 16, 2009 at 2:44 pm #

    We can reduce the birth rate to less than replacement (negative growth) with any number of socially acceptable programs and changes to our laws.
    Just some suggestions…
    What if first time non-violent felons were given a sentencing option of no jail time (just probation) for agreeing on a vasectomy (or the female equivalent)?
    What if any tax paying person were given tax credits of, say, $100,000 for agreeing to either of the same procedures? These tax credits would be in an account which would ‘pay’ their taxes until the full credit is used up. (No taxes for several years, to as long as a lifetime.)
    What if the tax deduction for dependent children remains static after two? (No deduction for the third or more.)
    We can reduce the birth rate to less than replacement (negative growth) with outside-the -box plans such as these.

  72. davmpls November 16, 2009 at 2:55 pm #

    Hate to flog a dead horse, but the retail shelves continue to be disturbingly empty.
    Ikea is out of stock on dozens of items. I’ve never seen that before. This includes some things they ran out of months ago.
    I was shocked to see a discount store RUN OUT of most shoes. That’s right. The shoe department is running out of shoes. Empty spaces, no boxes. Have they not paid their suppliers or did the supplier just make many fewer shoes this year?
    …and many, many emtpy storefronts. The local habitrail was always a second-tier mall, it usually packs them in during the fall. Most of the big tenants are gone. They aren’t even bothering to decorate.
    It’s not that I care so much about shopping, but it’s alarming to think that even things we need – like shoes – could run out in a heartbeat due to economics. What if we ran out because transporation costs were too high?

  73. alohavagabond November 16, 2009 at 3:00 pm #

    Just as a point of reference – I grew up on the Great Plains. My father was born on his grandfather’s farm in 1912. He pulled a cotton sack, and until he was 8 or so, there weren’t any cars, so they went places by horse-drawn buggies. He rode a horse to school. He fought in WWII. He benefitted from the economic explosion following the war. I guess my point is this – it was not a multi-generational phenomena. For a great many, it happened in one generation.

  74. Dan Treecraft November 16, 2009 at 3:01 pm #

    Laura’s not wrong about our low moral tone here, today. It’s mean.
    Truth to tell, it won’t likely seem so funny to to most of us when it’s our children who are caught in the maelstroms churning ahead of us.
    On the other hand, I’m ready to be counted among those who none-the-less look forward to the rest of life on the planet getting some relief from the plague of Homo sapiens that has shanghai-ed virtually every scrap of the planet – wet or dry – and converted it into some form of excrement, whether biological or industrial. It’s time for this species to be taken down a notch. I’m not worried that it won’t happen. It’s inevitable, to be sure.
    But, thanks for he reprimand, Laura. It won’t hurt to have the glee here taken down a notch, too.
    My kids? If I do have any – they NEVER call or write.
    DBT

  75. davmpls November 16, 2009 at 3:01 pm #

    Hate to flog a dead horse, but the retail shelves continue to be disturbingly empty.
    Ikea is out of stock on dozens of items. I’ve never seen that before. This includes some things they ran out of months ago.
    I was shocked to see a discount store RUN OUT of most shoes. That’s right. The shoe department is running out of shoes. Empty spaces, no boxes. Have they not paid their suppliers or did the supplier just make many fewer shoes this year?
    …and many, many emtpy storefronts. The local habitrail was always a second-tier mall, it usually packs them in during the fall. Most of the big tenants are gone. They aren’t even bothering to decorate.
    It’s not that I care so much about shopping, but it’s alarming to think that even things we need – like shoes – could run out in a heartbeat due to economics. What if we ran out because transporation costs were too high?

  76. dale November 16, 2009 at 3:10 pm #

    I can’t image what world you are living in?? Stores around here are full of merchandise, maybe a few less shoppers, but running out of things?….nonsense.

  77. cowswithguns November 16, 2009 at 3:13 pm #

    On a positive note, the Dow is up 100 points to 10,400.
    Oh, and our leaders are pressuring the Chinese to up the value of their currency.
    That way, you see, Chinese goods will be more expensive for the Wal-Mart yeast people. And the dollar will inflate — this at a time when the unemployment rate will undoubtedly hit 11 percent.
    That’s when the anger will come. And the yeast people surely won’t revel a return to serfdom.
    It will be interesting — although tragic — to see how this all plays out.

  78. 45north November 16, 2009 at 3:27 pm #

    there are real human feelings at stake in our prospects for loss of every kind, but especially in the fate of people we love.
    yeah, like me

  79. Laura Louzader November 16, 2009 at 3:29 pm #

    The lack of inventory in the stores is no surprise and no calamity. Early this year, retailers said they were carrying much lower inventories because of the economic climate.
    We have about 8X as much retail space in this country as we ever needed. In 1960, there was 4 sq ft of retail space for every man, woman, and child, and as of 2005, there was 38 sq ft. Horrendous retail redundancy, mostly as a result of the race to the bottom among municipalities desperate for “economic development”, who subsidize the dozens of redundant malls and big box stores that are located 3 miles apart, if even. When you see a new Target or Walmart or Lowes or Home Depot, you may know that it received a minimum of $4M in local subsidies, which goes a long way in explaining how our local economies were destroyed. Why should a small retailer struggle to eke out a living on a tiny store when she is taxed to subsidize the competition that is so enabled to undercut her?
    A new Target store, along with 200,000 sq ft of absurdly redundant retail space, just went up in Uptown Chicago, along with “affordable” apartments that cost an average of $447,000 a unit to build. FOUR HUNDRED AND FORTY-SEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS PER UNIT, for “affordable” low-income apartments, on the north lake front of chicago, where hundreds of condos are on the market for $200K or less, and more and more, $100K or less. Additionally, there are thousands of abandoned, boarded up apartment buildings all over this city, most of which are serviceable, often beautiful, and could be made comfortable and habitable for about $25,000 a unit, that would make good housing. There they sit, while we spend over $400K a unit to build low income housing for the benefit of some politically connected developer. (Asoka, you live in uptown Chicago, I’m sure you know about this.)
    Only a government would manage things this way. The above illustration is only one of thousands I could show to illustrate why the government can offer no help in restructuring our communities for life with steeply reduced energy supplies,and that official policies designed to reduce population will most likely not only be failures but will produce unintended effects that might be worse than the original problem.

  80. DeeJones November 16, 2009 at 3:46 pm #

    jIM, next time you are asked about over pop, just ask them if they have had a vasectomy/tubal ligation.
    “So Mr. Kunstler is so superior that he gets to equate my life and hundreds of millions of other human lives as “yeast”? ”
    Ummmm…. if you take it PERSONALLY, then you are indeed one of the morons.
    The analogy is supposed to be taken globally, as in if one views a vat of yeast from a great height, one cannot make out the individual yest cells. Same as if one views the Earth from orbit, you cannot make out individual people.
    And like the yeast, we will run out of ‘sugar’, the oil that fuels our snivilization. And there is apparently no real alternative being made for this either.
    I sadly fear that once the oil runs out, we will once again start hunting the whales for thier oil, and very quickly exterminate them. That will take only a few very short years, and will only power a few last stretch limos a very few last miles.
    As for preparing for the future? I am planning my move to a more southern clime, a country that is already third world, but will probably come out ahead when the US collapses. Unless the PTB here decide to take everyone else down with them. We still have the warheads you know, we could nuke every major city on earth in about an hour.
    Those we missed would die from the fallout.
    But who knows, perhaps the radiation would help some ‘plastic eaters’ evolve….
    And the circus would start all over again on to infinity….
    dj

  81. Tim November 16, 2009 at 4:00 pm #

    Eventually something like this will take care of population:
    British scientists testing Ukrainian ‘super flu’ that has killed 189 people
    http://www.dailymai l.co.uk/news/ worldnews/ article-1227984/ British-scientis ts-testing- Ukrainian- super-flu- killed-189- people.html
    British scientists are examining the strain of swine flu behind a deadly Ukrainian outbreak to see if the virus has mutated. A total of 189 people have died and more than one million have been infected in the country.
    Some doctors have likened the symptoms to those seen in many of the victims of the Spanish flu which caused millions of deaths world-wide after the World War One.
    An unnamed doctor in western Ukraine told of the alarming effects of the virus.
    He said: ‘We have carried out post mortems on two victims and found their lungs are as black as charcoal.
    ‘They look like they have been burned. It’s terrifying.’
    Neighbouring Poland has called on the EU to take action, fearing the mystery virus may spread westwards.

  82. DeeJones November 16, 2009 at 4:01 pm #

    “A new Target store, along with 200,000 sq ft of absurdly redundant retail space, just went up in Uptown Chicago, along with “affordable” apartments that cost an average of $447,000 a unit to build. FOUR HUNDRED AND FORTY-SEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS PER UNIT, for “affordable” low-income apartments, on the north lake front of chicago, where hundreds of condos are on the market for $200K or less, and more and more, $100K or less.”
    But Laura, you do know that these were probably started several YEARS ago, and have only now come on the market.
    See, this represents human short-sightedness. Like all the Republicans that blame the economic disaster this country is going thru on Obama, when it was 8 YEARS of G Bush that caused it all.
    Oh, but no, Obama is in charge, it must be his fault.
    With out any vision of history, we are bound to repeat it, and repeat it, and repeat it, and repeat it, and repeat it, and repeat it, and repeat it, and repeat it, and repeat it, and repeat it, and repeat it, and repeat it, ….
    Get it?

  83. abbeysbooks November 16, 2009 at 4:08 pm #

    I suggest we all begin to study Foucault. The public and professional discourse is preventing us from finding a solution. It is dominated by erroneous language and concepts. This includes JHK. There is nothing that can stop the process while we all buy into this discourse. We are caught in endless interpretations that spread their tentacles into every crevice. He said, she said, they said, it is said,etc. This leads to endless discourse and no solutions.
    We are fast istalling the technology of complete surveillanc, all in the name of safety. But really in the name of power. Power and knowledge are part of a huge grid into which everything falls.
    It is possible to think of all this from the point of view of the meshig of knowledge and power. And the interplay.
    Meanwhile back at the ranch we continue citi8ng facts, instances and opinions and discussing them in the same masking language. All, I said all, are part of this discourse of masking. Authorities, politicians, tycoons, masses, journalists, doctors, lawyers, yes every single person who has not studied Foucault and begunto apply his work. There are very very few of those.
    Consider: We have all become objects. We are no longer subjects, no longer part of the humanistic tradition of western civilization. People are objects pure and simple and JHK also discusses them as objects who live in the burbs, drive SUV’s, are breeding yeast people, etc. Just things. It has been coming on since the 18th century, little by little with the combination of power and knowledge in an ever tightly knit grid.
    People can be labeled as bio-power, which is what we are to the administrative State. If masses of us die of disease and starvation, why then, there are that many more immigrants waiting at the borders. A kind of Darwinian purge of the weak.
    Everyone’s problem here is that their discourse is the dominant paradigm. No way out. To begin to study history in terms of power, knowledge and control of the masses is a sobering and deadly experience as you see the future coming at you and unstoppable. Our surveillance tech is getting ever more encompassing. Now we have facial identity software the Chinese are trying out for us. If it works with that population, it will work easily with ours.
    You must begin to think in a totally different paradigm, out of the dominating discourse, intellectual, authoritarian and colloquial.

  84. Bustin J November 16, 2009 at 4:10 pm #

    Hey! Since when is calling a spade a spade a sin? YEAST People. Its interesting, especially in respect to the yeast growth cycle, that eventually something else comes along and feeds on the yeast. Usually a mold.
    So, yeast people, if ye be yeast, perhaps what you should really be worried about (if you survive beyond thunderdome), is the MOLD people.
    By the way Jim, I saw your new paintings on the site, keep up the good work. I especially like the winter scene. Your technique and execution has improved.

  85. asia November 16, 2009 at 4:16 pm #

    Its hardly the same US as 40 years ago.
    the population of cali is almost double in 30 years…and 1 in 4 is foriegn born.
    look at the spectacular Kill Off mao did in china 70 million…yet china under mao got a seat in the UN and Taiwan was kicked out!
    JHK:
    “You haven’t said anything about overpopulation!”
    WHY SHOULD YOU? HOW COULD YOU FIX IT? IGNORANCE IS BLISS…TELL EM THE TRUTH..THE US POPULATION HAS NEARLY DOUBLED SINCE THE DEMS OPENED THE FLOODGATES IN 1965.

  86. Jaego Scorzne November 16, 2009 at 4:19 pm #

    Another fine column from Mr Kunstler-this one an outright paen to Aristocracy. For to tell the Truth about the people is to argue for Elitism. Now if we could only follow though with the natural conclusions to this: an end to the onerous one man one vote voodoo. Bring back limited Democracy for the deserving few. An IQ test to week out the double digits would be a fine way to start. To vote at the Federal Level, one would need to have a track record of service-either military or volunteering. And of course, a good record of employment-no would be revolutionaries need apply. This sounds similar to what Rahm Emmanuelle wants-but this would be for real Americans-not for the benefit of the New World Order or to form an army of minorities to use against Americans.

  87. asia November 16, 2009 at 4:20 pm #

    there was a piece about watts in LATimes…low cost housing at a million a unit?
    and there or WSJ about folks that got nice severance packages BUT COULDNT STOP SPENDING ONCE THEY WERE JOBLESS.
    poor things…50 k for a wedding, 3 luxury cars, just couldnt FACE REALITY…for us who know the US is at the beginning of a long emergency, i mean depression its humorous to read!
    in an eerie way.

  88. Jaego Scorzne November 16, 2009 at 4:20 pm #

    Another fine column from Mr Kunstler-this one an outright paen to Aristocracy. For to tell the Truth about the people is to argue for Elitism. Now if we could only follow though with the natural conclusions to this: an end to the onerous one man one vote voodoo. Bring back limited Democracy for the deserving few. An IQ test to week out the double digits would be a fine way to start. To vote at the Federal Level, one would need to have a track record of service-either military or volunteering. And of course, a good record of employment-no would be revolutionaries need apply. This sounds similar to what Rahm Emmanuelle wants-but this would be for real Americans-not for the benefit of the New World Order or to form an army of minorities to use against Americans.

  89. abbeysbooks November 16, 2009 at 4:27 pm #

    Well I can see you don’t check the dumsters or the thrift stores. Many times shoes are free. If not they can be from 25 cents to afew dollars fornew ones. I buy all mine at them but really haul most out of a dumpster. My local DAV has nowlocked their dumpster. I am thinking of pouring syrup on everything left on the donate station. But I think I will catsup the lock and chain first to send them a message. So many people were supplementing their income out of their trash. And we had to sneak it. Recyclers told them they were doing their job and they said they didn’t have time to recycle. So they prefer to give their stuff tothe land fill.
    Do not support your local salvation army, DAV or other recycled store if they lock their dumpsters. They could just put the stuff in boxes for 145 cents to sell it. They mark up too high and everything is donated.

  90. asia November 16, 2009 at 4:28 pm #

    ‘in the long run YR DEAD’

  91. abbeysbooks November 16, 2009 at 4:31 pm #

    The stimulus program is so that pockets of areas are doing OK so that the people there will think things are getting better. Then when it starts to wear out another more flush pocket will emerge somewhere.This is to fool us into thinking things are getting better just because a local mall near us is doing OK.
    Wal-Mart in Springfield MO on Campbell near 60 has really increased the spaces of their aisles.

  92. asoka November 16, 2009 at 4:31 pm #

    Laura said: “Asoka, you live in uptown Chicago, I’m sure you know about this.”
    Laura, I wrote a longer response to your original post, but apparently it was censored for being cornucopian in nature (the ultimate CFN sin).

  93. asia November 16, 2009 at 4:32 pm #

    INDIA may be worlds first nation with 2 billion people…
    and its the most gender imbalanced nation in terms of those under 10 years of age.
    korea has lowest birth rate..lower than france and italy..farmers try to get viets or chinese ‘ mail order’ brides..and koreans are some of the most racist..their bloodline is as ‘pure’ as japanese.

  94. abbeysbooks November 16, 2009 at 4:32 pm #

    As the Dow goes up the dollar goes down. Reciprocal.

  95. asia November 16, 2009 at 4:34 pm #

    Laurie loo
    the only way you can make earth less populated is by
    1..killing yrself
    2..killing others
    3..both

  96. abbeysbooks November 16, 2009 at 4:35 pm #

    Simple explanation. The new units are going to provide lots of jobs. To renovate a unit not nearly so many jobs.
    You people keep thinking all this is going to be solved if people just think logically as your post indicates they should.
    In fact they are thinking logically. It’s just that their premises are different from yours.

  97. Laura Louzader November 16, 2009 at 4:35 pm #

    Dee, the project I spoke of was started as the housing market started to tank, and is financed by a TIF district.
    The retail is redundant no matter what as the entire area is packed with retail. There’s a Target 3 miles away and this store will decimate its traffic.
    Most area residents were vehemently opposed to the addition of more low-income housing in an area stuffed with it, and the problems it always generates. Most were even more passionately opposed to the siphoning off of taxpayers money and diverting it to a private developer via a TIF.
    The whole thing, like most projects of this nature, was born of a desire to benefit a powerful political crony, and to get “economic development” by throwing taxpayer’s money at another boondoggle, like we didn’t already have hundreds of big box stores in the city alone, never mind the burbs.
    I did a little research on the cost of housing projects built in the 50s, like the notorious Pruitt Igoe, and discovered that the cost per unit of building these places was equal to the cost of luxury housing in that era- $30,000 a unit for apartments with minimal amenity. I lived in St. Louis and remember watching Pruitt come down, to the cheers of the city, only to watch our witless leaders keep building more of the same, at atrocious cost, with similar results.
    And when you look at the results of sweeping government policies concerning land use, development, and resource management over the past 90 years, what you see is entire populations being steered from traditional cities and towns in the Northeast and Midwest- towns and cities located on major waterways, with fertile hinterlands, in moist climates, and close to each other- to distant suburbs accessible only by auto, and finally en masse to newly build cities in the high desert, thanks to the agency of HUD, FHA, the highway department, the Bureau of Reclamation, and other agencies whose missions should never have existed. We should never have built the fantastic Colorado River plumbing system with its dozen or so megadams, just to empty out St. Louis, Cleveland, Detroit, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Rochester, and other “organic” cities, to build megacities that will surely swiftly fail- really are already failing- when we can no longer maintain this stuff. Ditto for all the suburbs, whose development was made possible by HUD and FHA, as well as the interstate highway system.
    If there’s anything we should learn to be wary of, it’s Big Plans designed and implemented on high and inflicted on a population of 300 million, by force and billable to the taxpayers. We’ll be paying for the next 200 years for policies created 80 years ago. Let’s be careful what we inflict on our descendents.

  98. asoka November 16, 2009 at 4:36 pm #

    Laura said: “Asoka, you live in uptown Chicago, I’m sure you know about this.”
    Laura, I wrote a longer response to your original post, but apparently I am being censored for being cornucopian (the ultimate CFN sin).

  99. asia November 16, 2009 at 4:38 pm #

    now its ‘ el norte’ and if you write a book about it YA GET A PULITZER
    ENRIQUES JOURNEY
    the elites have named an enemy and it is us.

  100. abbeysbooks November 16, 2009 at 4:39 pm #

    The catasrophe ofwhichyou speak will indeed create a new life form. No got that wrong. The cockroaches will prevail and flourish and they are an old life form. Also opossums. And various species I haven’t thought about.

  101. asia November 16, 2009 at 4:42 pm #

    Jc…you are dreamimg.
    an invasion of this magnitude…50 MILLION ILLEGALS
    ‘In fact the geography (two oceans) have stopped any invasion or full scale destruction (that was not the case in Europe or Asia).’
    LOOK SOUTH OLD MAN [ OR YOUNG WOMAN]

  102. abbeysbooks November 16, 2009 at 4:48 pm #

    A few weeks ago there was a property auction in Chicago. 100 properties. 50 sold. A 9 bedroom 4 bath went for 15,000. That’s not a typo. A 5 bedroom 2 1/2 bath went for 7,000. That’s not a typo either. A trendy located condo with a view of the lake on the loop with heated garage went for 115,000.
    So just who is going to pay over 400,000? Where is that person masked man?

  103. Jaego Scorzne November 16, 2009 at 4:53 pm #

    Another fine column from Mr Kunstler-this one an outright paen to Aristocracy. For to tell the Truth about the people is to argue for Elitism. Now if we could only follow though with the natural conclusions to this: an end to the onerous one man one vote voodoo. Bring back limited Democracy for the deserving few. An IQ test to week out the double digits would be a fine way to start. To vote at the Federal Level, one would need to have a track record of service-either military or volunteering. And of course, a good record of employment-no would be revolutionaries need apply. This sounds similar to what Rahm Emmanuelle wants-but this would be for real Americans-not for the benefit of the New World Order or to form an army of minorities to use against Americans.

  104. draffen November 16, 2009 at 4:54 pm #

    Laura,
    Well put. We’re all in this together. And you know – that pot of water we’re in is getting mighty hot…

  105. P.S. Mueller November 16, 2009 at 4:58 pm #

    But some of my best friends are yeast.

  106. draffen November 16, 2009 at 4:59 pm #

    Bicycle Tourist:
    “The old bromide, “Go West, young man”, probably became bad advice about a century ago. What’s left? Go to Mars, young man?”
    I think the most appropriate saying right now might be “Stay put, young man…and hunker down!”

  107. Jaego Scorzne November 16, 2009 at 4:59 pm #

    I can’t wait! I gotta go now. But next I’m comin over to use that. Leave it open seat up. I’ll leave a silver dime on the tank-if tank there be.

  108. draffen November 16, 2009 at 4:59 pm #

    Bicycle Tourist:
    “The old bromide, “Go West, young man”, probably became bad advice about a century ago. What’s left? Go to Mars, young man?”
    I think the most appropriate saying right now might be “Stay put, young man…and hunker down!”

  109. Captainchaos November 16, 2009 at 5:20 pm #

    “I usually don’t bother. Their complaint, of course, implies that we would do something about overpopulation if only we would recognize it. Which is absurd. What might we do about overpopulation here in the USA? Legislate a one-child policy? Set up an onerous set of bureaucratic protocols forcing citizens to apply for permission to reproduce? Direct the police to shoot all female babies? Use stimulus money to build crematoria outside of Nashville?”
    This is absurd hyperbole intended to obfuscate and pathologize reasonable and humane solutions to the developing problem of overpopulation on the North American continent. As one commenter observed above, population growth in Western countries is wholly the result of open boarders immigration policy. But why are we bound by duty and dogma to do absolutely nothing about it? Because the majority populations of Western countries are European-derived people, and the lion’s share of immigrants are non-White Third World peoples; if the borders were closed, it would be White people that were the primary beneficiaries, and not non-White peoples. And the ethnic interests of White people is a priori illegitimate, it is alleged, of that is pure bullshit. What, Kunstler isn’t aware of the above described? Of course he is, he just won’t ‘go there’, for reasons that only he can be aware of; the alternative is that he is in fact one of the “morons” he pours scorn upon.

  110. asoka November 16, 2009 at 5:21 pm #

    fefe/zzzzz said: “Try for being a long winded, miss-guided twit.”
    twit?
    JHK twits every week, with taunts about the NASCAR/Walmart/tatoo-laden yeast.

  111. scott November 16, 2009 at 5:45 pm #

    I agree with Laura, the time for reciprocity of hyperbole and rhetoric is past–there are alot of people who really want to know what is happening in simple language. The Elitist’s here including Jim are more than capable of being the Joe Friday, “just the facts ma’am” type of writer that these people want and need to hear and read.
    Most of the bullshit that most of the “morons” out in whoville are being subjected to has been produced by the government, filtered by their paid “analysts” and disseminated through mainstream media sources. The government only recognizes analysts that tells it what it needs to hear, which is we can extrapolate debt infinitely into the future. A good example of this was several years ago CERA was telling governments and Corporations that drilling alot of small oilfields would more than makeup for the decline in the big ones. Of course anybody knows that daily production and distribution rates of any commodity are maintained by the large deposits. Sure enough, as CERA and the government was telling everybody we would be at 110 million barrels per day by now the world was betting against it.

  112. Jaego Scorzne November 16, 2009 at 5:49 pm #

    Sweden is the model Country for the coming European Super State: one word about the incredible level of Musim Crime and you go straight to jail. Some parts of Sweden have a level of rape equal to New York City-almost all of it Muslims against White Women. It’s even worse than here-at least here you can write about the level of Black Rape-even though you wont be believed.

  113. DeeJones November 16, 2009 at 5:52 pm #

    You know, as far as immigration is concerned, one seems to forget just what jobs are left for any immigrant or even US citizen to do here, as most lower & middle class jobs have all been ‘outsourced’ to China, ‘cept some service jobs. Just about the only middle class jobs left are in the “defense” industry, or for mil-indus’ related jobs. Go to Walmar and tell me how many Made In America products you can find there. Go ahead…
    “yeah Bush had a hand but you conveniently forget the 40 years of uninterrupted control that the Dimotwatts had in both houses just prior to Bush. Dat shit still be fuckin’ wif us.: fOOfOO
    Bullshit. The Repubs controlled congress during the Clinton Admin, which is why his healthcare reform failed. You also don’t recall the power balance during the REgan & Bush 1 years was close enough that the Repugs could and did call the tune. mayby they didn’t have an explicit repub majority, but they had enough of the so-called Blue-dog traitor demos to get thier way.
    With Bush in oriface, it only took them 8 years to totally fuck things up.
    The Demos havn’t had “uninterrupted control” since Raygun took office.

  114. Desertrat November 16, 2009 at 5:53 pm #

    Laura, your 4:35 PM post parallels what Jim has been saying for a long time.
    I have no clue if “5/6” of the world population will shoot craps. Maybe, maybe not. Odds are that the remaining 1/6 will be some tough SOBs. They’ll not only be smart, they’ll have all manner of the needed manual skills. It’s the townies and office-workers who are in deep doo-doo.
    My problem is that while I believe I have the smarts, accumulated knowledge and a bunch of skills of all sorts, I’m 75 and the physical part of the long-term is problematic. Can’t complain, though, nor will I whine. I’ve had a ball, so far, and I don’t plan to quit early.
    “…we came for first set and we stayed ’til last call; didn’t we have us a ball?” is my theme song. 🙂 I disrecall who wrote it.
    Have fun,
    ‘Rat

  115. Captainchaos November 16, 2009 at 6:24 pm #

    Kunstler’s offerings are yet another strand in the rope of what Dr. Kevin MacDonald referred to as the Culture of Critique. A rope – actually a tradition of pseudo-scholarship intended to portray the life affirming, traditional cultural forms of European-derived peoples as inherently pathological in that they are based upon repressed sexuality which engenders neurotic rage the acting out of which, in a ‘worst case scenario’ would be fascistic – intended to strangle the organic life White people.
    Kunstler, who supports the existence of Israel as a Jewish state, as an indispensable entity for the continued existence of the Jewish people, would deny Whites a homeland of their own; though Jews are vastly statistically less likely to be victimized by Palestinians in Israel than are Whites to be victimized by non-Whites in America. That is rank hypocrisy.
    All the ridicule and contempt Kunstler ejaculates regarding the symptoms of vulgarization and hyper-individualization of our people go without mentioning the disease, and its cause. And he certainly offers no cure, and dreads that cure more than anything in this world. The cure is the reaffirmation of our peoplehood, and separation from all those that wish us ill. How dare he, when it is our people that Kunstler and his own people depend upon for everything that makes life worth living in this world, do what he does! The man truly knows no shame.

  116. Desertrat November 16, 2009 at 6:50 pm #

    Laura, your 4:35 PM post parallels what Jim has been saying for a long time.
    I have no clue if “5/6” of the world population will shoot craps. Maybe, maybe not. Odds are that the remaining 1/6 will be some tough SOBs. They’ll not only be smart, they’ll have all manner of the needed manual skills. It’s the townies and office-workers who are in deep doo-doo.
    My problem is that while I believe I have the smarts, accumulated knowledge and a bunch of skills of all sorts, I’m 75 and the physical part of the long-term is problematic. Can’t complain, though, nor will I whine. I’ve had a ball, so far, and I don’t plan to quit early.
    “…we came for first set and we stayed ’til last call; didn’t we have us a ball?” is my theme song. 🙂 I disrecall who wrote it.
    Have fun,
    ‘Rat

  117. Desertrat November 16, 2009 at 6:52 pm #

    Laura, your 4:35 PM post parallels what Jim has been saying for a long time.
    I have no clue if “5/6” of the world population will shoot craps. Maybe, maybe not. Odds are that the remaining 1/6 will be some tough SOBs. They’ll not only be smart, they’ll have all manner of the needed manual skills. It’s the townies and office-workers who are in deep doo-doo.
    My problem is that while I believe I have the smarts, accumulated knowledge and a bunch of skills of all sorts, I’m 75 and the physical part of the long-term is problematic. Can’t complain, though, nor will I whine. I’ve had a ball, so far, and I don’t plan to quit early.
    “…we came for first set and we stayed ’til last call; didn’t we have us a ball?” is my theme song. 🙂 I disrecall who wrote it.
    Have fun,
    ‘Rat

  118. aquagreen73s November 16, 2009 at 6:53 pm #

    “Maybe we will emerge from our culture of free parking to a new society of living, by necessity, much more lightly on the planet and for a long time, perhaps long enough to allow the terrain to recover from all the free parking.”
    We’ll certainly be free from fiat money once the dust settles.

  119. Desertrat November 16, 2009 at 6:55 pm #

    Apologies to all. Website software? My computer? I don’t know…
    ‘Rat

  120. Miss Gayle November 16, 2009 at 6:55 pm #

    As China is finding out the hard way, Laura, killing off babies (ie killing off your working age income producing creative class) is not the smart way to go. If you really want population reduction it has to be done at the other end: killing off the useless unproductive non-income producing uncreative burdens on society, namely the elderly. Killing off babies leaves you with a huge retired class needing to be supported by a shrinking working age class that cannot support such numerous elderly and themselves at the same time.
    Social security is a case in point. When it was enacted, there were 19 workers per retired person. Now there are 3, soon to be 2. In other words, to support all the retired people, each worker will have to cough up 1/3 of their income so that everyone has 2/3 of an income. And if you continue to kill babies, you will simply continue killing off your tax-paying wage earner base. Not smart.

  121. asoka November 16, 2009 at 6:56 pm #

    JHK says: “We suppose, tautologically, that because things have always seemed the way they are, that they always have been the way they seem.”
    Uh, yes, and most CFNers believe that, because throughout history life has been “nasty, brutish, and short,” that life will again be that way … once the oil runs out… as if a return to primitivism is inevitable… progress and human ingenuity be damned.

  122. Miss Gayle November 16, 2009 at 7:01 pm #

    I think it’s amazing that all these so-called “Christians” are whining about having single-payer healthcare when the New Testament says clearly that the real 1st century community of believers sold all their excess property and possessions and held all things in common. I would presume that meant a doctor in that community of believers treated people in the community of believers for free, since they had all resources in common. (But I’m willing to be that these same so-called “Christians” would not in a million years join a kibbutz – because “socialism” is “evil.”)

  123. Miss Gayle November 16, 2009 at 7:02 pm #

    I think it’s amazing that all these so-called “Christians” are whining about having single-payer healthcare when the New Testament says clearly that the real 1st century community of believers sold all their excess property and possessions and held all things in common. I would presume that meant a doctor in that community of believers treated people in the community of believers for free, since they had all resources in common. (But I’m willing to bet that these same so-called “Christians” would not in a million years join a kibbutz – because “socialism” is “evil.”)

  124. Anne November 16, 2009 at 7:04 pm #

    Popular song now on the radio sums up the mentality that we’ll be dealing with:
    ***
    Well it’s midnight, damn right, we’re wound up too tight
    I’ve got a fist full of whiskey, the bottle just bit me
    That shit makes me bat shit crazy
    We’ve got no fear, no doubt, all in balls out
    We’re going off tonight
    To kick out every light
    To get anything that we want
    To drink everything in sight
    We’re going till the world stops turning
    While we burn it to the ground tonight
    We’re screaming like demons, swinging from the ceiling
    I got a fist full of fifties, the tequila just hit me
    We got no class, no taste, no shirt, and shit faced
    We got it lined up, shot down, firing back straight crown
    We’re going off tonight
    To kick out every light
    To get anything that we want
    To drink everything in sight
    We’re going till the world stops turning
    While we burn it to the ground tonight
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwJ8NvbgRfo
    ***
    If you’re not scared of these people you should be. This is why sales of ammo are through the roof. Even the libs are stocking up.

  125. Laura Louzader November 16, 2009 at 7:12 pm #

    The 15% or so of the population that would remain would not necessarily be the ‘smartest’ and might well be pretty dumb when it comes to building a humane society that a person of culture and learning would want to live in…. or that a person with basic humanity would want to be a part of.
    They would be the luckiest, and the physically toughest. They would also be the most vicious, and be adept at applying brute force where necessary and killing anyone who gets in their way. Needless to say, they would be genetically endowed with superior physical strength and disease resistance.
    Keep in mind that in the dark ages that followed the fall of Rome, that there were not many engineers, scholars, doctors, craftsmen, or businessmen. And there were no philosophers.
    There were only warlords, the antecedents of the feudal aristocracy, who prevailed by looting and murder, and the religious shamans who catered to them and justified them… and sheltered the few brainy people around, who lived in fear and at the beck and call of their rulers, who couldn’t have lived without whatever craft and skill they supplied, recovered piece by piece over generations…but who considered themselves vastly superior to the craftsmen and tradesmen and few scholars and scientists whose work made it possible for the lords to live better than their peasant vassals. The average early feudal lord was an uncouth brute who never bathed, ate with his fingers, raped peasants at will, and took his land and the service of his “inferiors” by force. It’s difficult to believe that anyone posting here can actually believe that a return to such a society would be an improvement, even though I will allow that it’s a real possibility.
    My guess is that the brains who make civilization possible will not survive any better than they did the collapse of Rome, and the burning and looting of Alexandria, when the Roman Church burned the famous library in a successful effort to stamp out the knowledge and ideas that had given the world the most glorious periods of civilization to that date, and viciously murdered prominent scholars and thinkers.
    Our own post-apocalypse future will probably be no better, and I’ve been convinced for a long time, that should we fail to be able to sustain our civilization, that it would implode into a dark age that would be longer and darker than any of the past.
    As for the supposed superiority of a rigidly stratified and authoritarian society, well, the proof is in the pudding. Poor countries ruled by rigidly authoritarian elites are imitating our wasteful lifestyles to the extent their means will allow, and often far beyond their means- it is not the “hoi poloi” who dreamed and built the monstrosity that is Dubai, that rich folk’s tax and money-washing haven, and the most wasteful of resources of any city in the world. There can be no question that it is our educated elites who consume nonrenewable resources at the fastest rate, and whose priorities and desire for mega-profits drove the creation of America’s unsustainable and inhumane suburban landscape.

  126. Jaego Scorzne November 16, 2009 at 7:30 pm #

    Bravo sir-you have vision. But the minorities are going to have to go-but they wont. So we will have to leave them. But the Feds wont let us go…You see where this is going. It is inevitable.

  127. Jaego Scorzne November 16, 2009 at 7:34 pm #

    I second the motion-aargh. Get him me hearties. Seriously dude, you make it sound easy-too easy. Jim Rawls of SurvivalBlog.com, the largest of all such blogs, disagrees with you. For more info, watch Costner’s “Water World”.

  128. CaptSpaulding November 16, 2009 at 7:42 pm #

    There are two reasons we’re going down the tubes. First, we lost all of our middle class manufacturing jobs to China. The younger peop;e that I know are working (if they have jobs that is), one or two part time jobs that pay an average of $8.00 per hour. The factory jobs paying $15.00 an hour or more are mostly gone. Secondly, Washington has turned into a marketplace where legislation is bought and paid for on a daily basis by a process that has become corrupted by corporate money. If you have noticed, AIG & the rest haven’t missed a bonus payment yet and as long as they can buy congress, they won’t. Just these two facts alone are enough to sink the country, and there’s nothing anyone can do about it. And I have to agree with JHK, Sarah Palin is definitely a yeast infection.

  129. ozone November 16, 2009 at 7:44 pm #

    Laura L.
    Yes, I do hear you. (I am “somewhat” of an empath; the opposite being sociopathic. Hopefully, very little of that nastiness is welded to my soul. Sure, “self-preservation” is clearly manifested, but yep, there are limits to the amount of suffering I’ll endure ’til the train at the end of the tunnel runs me down like a rabid dog. Not to say I won’t endure A LOT to wreak a heapin’ helpin’ of vengeance on those that got’s some coming…)
    Howsomever, I don’t see these lines by JHK as being anything but grieving for that ol’ “lost potential” thang. Wouldn’t you agree (even a little)?:
    ” Entropy is a harsh mistress. In the immediate offing: a contest for the table scraps of the 20th century. We’ve barely seen the beginning of this, just a little peevishness embodied by yeast shaman figures such as Sarah Palin and Glen Beck. As hardships mount and hardened emotions rise, we’ll see “the usual suspects” come into play: starvation, disease, violence. We may still be driving around in Ford F-150s, but the Pale Rider is just over the horizon beating a path to our parking-lot-of-the-soul.
    It’s a sad and tragic process and, all lame metaphors aside, there are real human feelings at stake in our prospects for loss of every kind, but especially in the fate of people we love.

  130. Jaego Scorzne November 16, 2009 at 7:52 pm #

    He does a bit of gentile bashing every other week or so. This week was particularly bad-a crematoria outside Nashvillle? I don’t think it’s conscious on his part-consciously he thinks we’re all just people. So I think Prof McDonald’s thesis is often correct: Jews aren’t conscious of their own bias and ethnocentrism. The Leaders of the ADL by contrast, must be.

  131. pam jones November 16, 2009 at 8:27 pm #

    Love your writing. Always lots of positive feedback about content, but people don’t tell you enough: you’re a terrific writer.
    Pam

  132. messianicdruid November 16, 2009 at 8:31 pm #

    “The Demos havn’t had “uninterrupted control” since Raygun took office.”
    Well okay, should have said “politicians”. Ain’t a plug nickel’s worth of difference anyway.

  133. jmsbrmr November 16, 2009 at 8:42 pm #

    ginsberian,
    whitmanesque,
    wolfoid and
    twainish. geese i wish i had master enough to forward this delicate golden twaddle like tripe which is loaded with clean spirit

  134. Kurt Cagle November 16, 2009 at 8:52 pm #

    I find it interesting that yeast is now being explored (along with algae) as a potential alternative fuel source. Now, given the intrinsic fat built up by the typical American that could be extracted and converted via the appropriate rendering and distilling hardware, and you could quite easily solve the oil crisis and the overpopulation crisis in one fell swoop. Shades of soylent green (which I’m honestly surprised hasn’t been mentioned yet).
    Overpopulation by itself is not really the problem. In India, overpopulation has been pandemic, yet the carbon footprint of a typical Indian is virtually non-existent. The same could be said for the slum-dwellers of Mexico City or similar people who are probably far more aware of the real state of cultural collapse than most Americans could ever be. On the other hand, a billionaire with his own personal yacht or private jet has a carbon footprint that is millions (in some cases billions) of times larger, than a woman in a slum in Calcutta. Which of those people is actually causing the “collapse” of modern society?
    Unfortunately, chances are pretty good that the woman in Calcutta will be the one to be removed – by disease, by famine, by regressive political regimes or local violence or just despair. The billionaire has his feudal estates, has the best of all possible medical support, has the ability to stockpile goods for the future and has the ability to hire personal police forces.
    The investment bankers and fund managers who are now collecting their unjust rewards are not (in the main) buying pretty artwork or new cars with it – luxury sales continue to fall, depriving even sycophantic artists and craftsmen from earning a living – but you can bet that they are “battle-hardening” their domiciles, making sure that their staffs are well trained in arms (and are well paid to prevent them from possibly becoming assassins) and locking the barn door. They would be fools if they weren’t, and the ones that are fools won’t survive the coming purge.
    I don’t believe that the “fall” will be to the level of barbarity. I’m not even sure I believe in JHK’s new frontier viewpoint. It will, however, be a time where the “empire” of the United States will likely break up into smaller administrative units, where for a while we’ll be more city-states than a country (or several countries) and where the rule of law will be replaced by the rule of might, save in those places that 1) have sufficient local energy sources, 2) have sufficient natural resources – water, arable land, 3) are able to keep “the grid” together long enough to transition to a post-oil future, 4) have ports that allow for trade beyond their immediate boundaries, and 5) can conscript enough people to guard those resources. Some places will manage. I don’t give out much hope for Denver, Scottsdale, Las Vegas, or a host of other cities that exist only as way points on Route 666.

  135. banr2 November 16, 2009 at 8:58 pm #

    reply to Clouseau2
    With a three diget IQ, what are you doing on this “Blog”??

  136. JD Moore November 16, 2009 at 9:11 pm #

    I take a “Happy Motoring” trip only once or twice a year. Otherwise, I walk, take the train, or ride a bus whenever I want to go anywhere. My “exotic ocean cruise” is the Staten Island Ferry. On one of those occasional trips, this past year, in fact I was on US 9 between Warrensburg and Glen Falls. At those same places, our esteemed author speaks of The Coming Apocalypse, I saw a rare sight–pedestrians! Only in very select places, such as Cooperstown, did I see anywhere near as many pedestrians as I do in my own eminently walkable home town. Such a strange irony that I would see “the problem” and “the solution” in the same place.
    And Kurt Cagle, da gummint removed US 666 from the federal highway system years ago because of some superstition.
    Miss Gayle, I’ve been smelling this “American Brand” of “The Final Solution” for quite some time now, like burnt bacon. I’m nearly 60; it’s getting scary. Something like 3/4 of all health-care spending is for care of the chronically ill. Scared enough yet?

  137. JohnTedder November 16, 2009 at 9:15 pm #

    Jim, I look forward to your Monday column. A few comments:
    Did you know that Velveeta was first made in Monroe, New York in 1923? It doesn’t need refrigeration either. You might consider this “survival” food. I’m going to put a block of Velveeta in every bag of silver coins I buy.
    Could you post this column earlier in the morning or after 6:00 pm Monday night? Unfortunately, I just got a new American job (a job without benefits) and I can’t access it during normal business hours anymore. It is inconvenient to say the least (they expect me to show up everyday, Monday through Friday at 8:00 am) but it pays for the Velveeta.
    It’s a good thing those not-very-bright virtual serfs were smart enough to defeat the original Axis of Evil.
    Thank you for allowing me to comment and promote my blog a little bit.
    http//teddersrandomnotes.com/blog

  138. steve November 16, 2009 at 9:17 pm #

    I found this on Parapundit, espousing the low usage of trains in EU. The link does not seem to match.
    The extent of mass transit usage in Europe is exaggerated anyway. Check out table 3 at this link which shows percentages of distances traveled in Europe by car, rail, tram & metro, and bus & coach. What you’ll see is that cars account for over 80% of distance traveled in 11 western European countries and only gets below 80% in Denmark, Austria, and Ireland. If that’s the best European countries can do with mass transit given their high gasoline prices, denser populations, and public subsidies then the idea that Americans could shift to mass transit is absurd.
    http://www.halfsigma.com/2009/11/trains-higher-class-than-buses.html
    If this is true, looks like EU is also trapped in the car paradigm paralysis.

  139. JohnTedder November 16, 2009 at 9:17 pm #

    Sorry. I was too quick to hit the send button.
    http://teddersrandomnotes.com/blog

  140. Tim S November 16, 2009 at 9:34 pm #

    It will be interesting to see what happens to our great “information culture”, based on a very fragile Internet, when things start to fall apart. Can you say low-power AM radio, and self-published newsletters, both with a decidedly local circulation and flavor?

  141. trippticket November 16, 2009 at 9:41 pm #

    One thing we resource junkies in the States need to come to grips with:
    The other 5.7 billion people on the planet combined don’t use as many resources as the billion or so middle class members.
    Stop blaming resource depletion on over-population and place it squarely where it belongs…in your own lap.

  142. trippticket November 16, 2009 at 9:42 pm #

    One thing we resource junkies in the States need to come to grips with:
    The other 5.7 billion people on the planet combined don’t use as many resources as the billion or so middle class members.
    Stop blaming resource depletion on over-population and place it squarely where it belongs…in your own lap.

  143. Laura Louzader November 16, 2009 at 9:49 pm #

    This TIF boondogle provided a lot of jobs, all right, Abby. But those jobs were mostly to the developer and to the local aldergoon’s flunkies and to city bureaucrats.
    The construction jobs provided were temporary, the damage to the taxpayers, the neighborhood, and the local economy permanent. Those workers will stand that much more of a chance of being blown out of their own houses by the upward-ratcheting property taxes necessary to offset the diversion of tax monies in the TIF district away from essential city services such as essential water and sewer infrastructure, police protection, and fire protection, to the back pockets of the crony developer who likely made twice the profit on this development that he would building for a private buyer in the free market (or that portion of the housing market that remains truly free).
    The name of the game in this city is to siphon off as much of the taxpayers’ dough as possible to the back pockets of political cronies who donate to your war chest. Who cares if you destroy the local economy by making local merchants subsidize their own destruction at the hands of Target- why don’t they just fold up their struggling little no-count stores and get a job for $9 an hour at Target or Panera Bread? Who cares if Panera or Border’s Books or whatever other large retail recipient of the taxpayer’s bounty then folds up and leaves after 4 years, leaving a 50,000 sq ft space that the taxpayers paid for and that will sit vacant for 5 years until it is occupied by a storage facility or some such?
    So goes all government-sponsored economic development. We rescued GM and lent them $25 billion, then more later, so that they could invest $1 billion in their Brazil operation. How many jobs did that provide for Americans? We built about a dozen dams on the Colorado River, one of which, the 700′ high Glen Canyon, nearly breached in 1983 and which in 2007 was deemed one of the two most dangerous hydro dams in the country, so that tens of millions of people could be lured to the southwest, where millions will eventually be stranded with insufficient water supplies and no way to get around. And there is no money to divert the water from Lake Powell and take down a dam that its keepers know damn well is going to fail sooner or later, with catastrophic consequences.
    No money left to unwind 60 years of suburban and exurban highway building and housing development that has stranded 80% of our population in places with densities too low to support transit. No money left to build the nuclear power plants with advanced and more efficient technologies we will need to power a third of our systems, let alone electrify our transportation….as though we had, jointly or severally, the money to rebuild our railroads. We will be to occupied paying down the $14 trillion committed to “rescuing” the government-gooosed housing market to have the capital to commit to that.
    Any Peak Oil survival plan that depends on government planning or resources is going to fail. Make your own plans and find a way to cope that doesn’t depend on our tottering, top-heavy, money-guzzling gubbermint.

  144. MINDfool November 16, 2009 at 9:50 pm #

    Let’s try another tack. While, I agree with the brutally pessimistic outlook of most contributors, I do not agree that the outcomes MUST be as implied or predicted. The energy budget of the earth is that of a long term flow process AND we are nowhere close to being short of energy. What we are short of is a gestalt of intelligent intellectual human LIFE.
    I do not need to re-emphasize the self serving chaos of the Wall street mentality or the political “in”correctness which refuses to accept that humans are in fact not created equal in group or individual. I do wish to emphasize that the mental and physical vacuum generated by our educational and moral edifice is rotting our core. That a smart, but slothily educated, 18 year old could ask me, “Mr. Mxxxx, what be 8 time 4?,” is but one example of these lumpen yeast pod people. No sense of history, philosophy, science, math exists in these proles. Perhaps there will come a time when the talent those $8/hr people have will be called upon, but I doubt it. We have come to the point where police need a bachelor’s degree to get a decent job, but a bachelor’s degree in ANY field does not necessarily imply any ability to do anything.
    And here I differ with JHK. Projects like the $600 billion SOLAR array planned for the Sahara with power distributed under the Mediterranean to Europe take up very little of the earth’s land surface. Similarly, most (>50%) of the oil in depleted wells is STILL there. I could add other technology, but unfortunately Beavis and Butthead is NOT a joke, and so the likelihood citizens like this can act responsibly is close to NIL. Ravi Batra , another doomer, may have it nailed when he notes that societies go through cycles of emphasis on MILITARY, RELIGIOUS, MERCANTILE, and INTELLECTUAL. After the collapse,
    military warlords may be the chosen path.

  145. Agriburbia November 16, 2009 at 10:16 pm #

    There is way too much pessimism and negativism here. Lighten up, y’all.
    As much as I often enjoy Kunstler’s scathing criticism, I don’t enjoy his cheap and constant jabs at the American South. Last I checked the overurbanized North and some parts of the West is the section of the USA which is the most paved over, artificial, overpopulated, industrialized, dependent on oil for cars and home heating along with coal (often mined in the South) for their electricity. How many mountains in West Virginia have been leveled mining coal in order to keep NYC’s lights on? Also, food grown and raised in the South and Midwest subsidizes the unsustainable population density of the North and parts of the West. In short, the North is clearly the most parasitic and ecologically unsustainable area of the entire USA. Per usual, it’s the damn Yanks. Did you know that New York City daily EXPORTS a lot of its trash to some Southern states like Kentucky, Virginia, etc? Did you know that NYC pumps untold tons of sewage daily in to its nearby waterways? Did you know that NYC imports its freaking water from very far away, and all of its food too? Well, now you do…the same is true of many other overurbanized areas in the USA. The problem is not overpopulation, the problem is the overconcentration of human populations in urban/suburban areas. But in terms of population pressures, why doesn’t Mr Kunstler address the millions of illegal immigrants currently residing in the USA? And how we still continue to import over a million legal immigrants a year despite unemployment being very high?
    Overpopulation isn’t that much of an American problem either except in some nations of the world (China, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Central America, etc) — much of the USA is thinly populated outside of various sprawling urban/suburban metro areas. There are thousands of small towns and vast swathes of the American countryside just waiting to be repopulated and reactivated by the right people, but too many Americans continue to huddle in and around America’s largest cities like their lives depended on it…well, I should tell y’all that it doesn’t. Of course the resources necessary for basic survival aren’t in the sprawling cities or suburbs anymore, they’ve all been paved over by the hyperindustrial money-master control-freaks in the last century. But there is PLENTY of land, resources, water, and so on out in the American small towns and the countryside, places which are increasingly abandoned by the rootless cosmopolitan American populace.
    The best thing we can do to restart the faltering American economy is a very organized 21st century ‘back to the land’ movement. Get a lot of people out of the overpopulated cities and suburbs and back out in to THE REAL WORLD which is composed of small/medium-sized towns and villages, the rural or semi-rural areas, and so on.
    And oh yeah, peak oil is not on horizon in the USA despite all of the scaremongers who say it is. The USA, due to the fact that we have complete control of Iraq’s vast oil reserves, now has enough oil to keep us afloat for many decades to come. You can thank G. W. Bush for his foresight. That being said, we do need to get off oil ASAP in favor of cleaner/greener forms of transportation and technology. I agree with Jim that we ought to begin to revive America’s rail transport systems immediately. We are a vast nation, and very large nations need lots of TRAINS for the efficient transportation of goods and people.

  146. Flyover November 16, 2009 at 10:28 pm #

    So, JHK is telling us that he believes in free will. He is inferring that morons do not need to be morons, that they choose to be such. My learning has taught me that anyone who believes as JHK believes, is a moron, or just another elitist asshole who holds himself to be a superior being. He also has identified himself with the extreme rightwing psychopaths, by his denigration of those on the lowest economic and I.Q. scale. The Wall Street criminals have destroyed our economy, and they are not Southern Baptists or Midwest Lutherans. Sometimes, Jimmy Boy says it’s all good, if you don’t cross the line regarding his tribe

  147. Tim S November 16, 2009 at 10:30 pm #

    When I worked in the Netherlands in the 1990s, most of the Dutch families owned one car, max. Only the very rich had more than one.
    So the Dad would drive the one car to work every day, and it would usually stay parked in the company lot all day. (BTW, most white-collar workers who got company-supplied cars also had a company-supplied credit card for the fuel.)
    Meanwhile, the wife would chauffeur the kids to school, and do her shopping, on the bike.
    Oh well, at least he maintained his standing among his fellow workers.

  148. davmpls November 16, 2009 at 10:36 pm #

    You are an idiot.

  149. Donny-Don November 16, 2009 at 10:40 pm #

    Jim asks rhetorically:
    “What might we do about overpopulation here in the USA?”
    Then he shows an uncharacteristic lack of imagination, assuming the answer is: Nothing.
    How about this:
    – ELIMINATE the tax deduction for more than two children
    – Actually ENFORCE our nation’s immigration laws
    – DON’T cut off federal funding to organizations like Planned Parenthood just because part of their mission includes abortion-options counseling.
    – Treat childless and one-child couples as environmental HEROES, and treat Octo-mom and mothers of quintuplets and environmental VILLIANS.
    – Call the POPE as what he is: an environmental criminal, for discouraging people from using contraception.
    – Discuss unsustainable population growth as a CRUCIAL PUBLIC ISSUES, don’t treat it as some elephant in the room that we are all trying to ignore … hmmm … in fact this seems strangely like Kunstler’s pet topic, Peak Oil!
    How uncreative of Kunstler to think we’re pissing in the wind about population growth … but can’t do enough to wean the US off of petroleam.
    Gee — what might we do about Peak Oil here in the United States?
    Nothing, of course. (I’m adopting Kunstler’s defeatist attitude.)

  150. Paulo November 16, 2009 at 10:59 pm #

    Thank you Laura, you beat me to it. I mulled over this nasty post for the afternoon and signed in wondering if I would see any shred of decency in ‘comments’ and replies?
    Yeast people? Who the hell do you people think you are? Will you be manning the ovens? Or is it enough to simply feel superior to folks who are pretty much trying to get by just like anyone else. We are all products of our world to some extent, and I think it would be wise to remember that people are doing the best that they can.
    God help us all if you represent the ‘thinking people’. We would all be better off dead than watching the world unfold to your specifications, or twisted version of who is worthy and what is the best way to live
    This is my last post and reading of this blog. JHK, you are a nasty small minded man who has lost his humanity.
    Have fun.
    Paulo

  151. Zappnin November 16, 2009 at 11:01 pm #

    Earth to elitists…. Mankind got along perfectly well and thrived for hundreds of thousands of years, or millions or however far back you want to go until you get lost in the mists of time. No formal education needed; no belief in science, evolution, name your favorite indicia of smarts or intelligence. Don’t get me wrong; I am all in favor of those things and happen to think they are very good qualities. But the people who survive will be those who find a cohesive idea around which they can unify; whether it be that wacky old Jehovah or some other fraudster, and can manage to get and maintain food and shelter. Maybe the Mexican drug cartels will form the basis for the groups that survive. Just like the warlords back in the Dark Ages.

  152. Zappnin November 16, 2009 at 11:02 pm #

    Earth to elitists…. Mankind got along perfectly well and thrived for hundreds of thousands of years, or millions or however far back you want to go until you get lost in the mists of time. No formal education needed; no belief in science, evolution, name your favorite indicia of smarts or intelligence. Don’t get me wrong; I am all in favor of those things and happen to think they are very good qualities. But the people who survive will be those who find a cohesive idea around which they can unify; whether it be that wacky old Jehovah or some other fraudster, and can manage to get and maintain food and shelter. Maybe the Mexican drug cartels will form the basis for the groups that survive. Just like the warlords back in the Dark Ages.

  153. trotsky catbox November 16, 2009 at 11:35 pm #

    My name is Trotsky Catbox
    My home’s the Pacific Gyre
    Where spinning bottles are the norm
    And fishes catch on Fyre
    I keep a strain of fragrant yeast
    (That I’ve had since the Civil War)
    In a Jar beneath my nautical bed
    But above the Ocean floor
    I cannot wait for Mondays
    Electrons set me free
    On the Kunstler ‘Comments’ section
    Mayhem and Anarchy
    I try to stay on topic
    But that’s against the rules
    So I just spew whatever I feel
    On the HMS Ship of Fools
    (Clusterfuck Comments…………
    Spelling, Reason, Civility, Clothing: optional)
    Oh, and one more thing…
    My diet consists of Jelly Beans
    And Condolleeza Rice
    If somehow that don’t please you
    I’ll punch you in the eyes!!!
    Sincerely,
    (feeling very clever and pleased
    with himself)
    —TC
    Put ‘em up!

  154. davmpls November 16, 2009 at 11:39 pm #

    You are an idiot.

  155. abbeysbooks November 16, 2009 at 11:55 pm #

    I’m 75 too and the change in a lifetime has been fantastic.

  156. bproman November 17, 2009 at 12:20 am #

    Lessons from the hyperinflating empire : Who can afford beer, pretzels, an Ecoli burger and tickets to a game these days? The dice are loaded and you can hope for a natural but it seems all we’re getting is craps and you can take your monopoly money in a wheelbarrow to the banker’s bakery.

  157. bproman November 17, 2009 at 12:20 am #

    Lessons from the hyperinflating empire : Who can afford beer, pretzels, an Ecoli burger and tickets to a game these days? The dice are loaded and you can hope for a natural but it seems all we’re getting is craps and you can take your monopoly money in a wheelbarrow to the banker’s bakery.

  158. Godozo November 17, 2009 at 12:34 am #

    Laura (and all those who go along with her):
    Yeah, there’s something sickly fun about looking all around you and waiting for things to fall. I’ve been waiting and watching since 1977, when I got my first real experience at Sub-Urban living and found it sucked eggs…real hard. Where most Sub-Urban yobs watch the movies and cheer on New York being pummeled to oblivion, I think of Sub-Urbs and Sub-Urban colleges (Michigan State, for starters) being firebombed to death.
    But don’t be fooled. We know damn well that we’re equally yeast…probably more so, seeing as we spend too much time reading the internet (heck, I’m writing this after reading ALL THE POSTS BEFORE THIS). We’ll probably be shot first, so that the illusion lasts a bit longer for the rest of the yeast.

  159. suburbanempire November 17, 2009 at 1:03 am #

    “mankind thrived perfectly well”
    ??????????????????????????????
    Yeah, with fleas, and lice, and for about thirty years on average, with high infant mortality rates…. beheading, non debatable torture, toasted witches…..
    and poop smell…. a whole lot of poop smell….
    no toilet paper….
    lots of hunger (feast or famine as opposed to boom or bust)
    dust from horsecrap choking the air…. serfdom…. massive class distinction (Titanic style)
    Survived….YES, but thriving happened with oil
    WAKE UP

  160. Nickelthrower November 17, 2009 at 1:23 am #

    Water world? What? Let me break it down for you.
    There are 250 families in this water community. Each boat has its own plumbing system to include running water. Most are outfitted for long oceanic voyages which means my neighbors can produce their own electricity and have “homes” stuffed full of survival gear. My next door neighbor just installed a battery operated system that can produce 80 gallons of fresh water a day right out of the ocean.
    Pirates?? Come on, boats with engines get about 1 mile per gallon or less. It wont be long before anything with an engine (including the coast guard) is frozen. Oh yeah, I’ve got sails.
    My neighbors are not ignorant to what is happening in the US of A and, trust me, we’re making plans for the worst. I would much rather be in this community of survivalists than in some suburb – those people are in for hell.
    Finally, I take no pleasure in any of this but I can read the writing on the wall and those people that think they’ll just farm their back yard or run out into the forests to pick berries are in for a big surprise.

  161. wagelaborer November 17, 2009 at 2:04 am #

    It’s un-american to take other’s wealth?
    Is that a joke?
    We are living on land that was taken 200+/- years ago from people that shared the wealth, but didn’t have guns.
    The South was built with labor stolen from Africa.
    The USA is RIGHT NOW engaged in stealing oil from Iraq and is openly drooling over Iran’s oil.
    The rich of the USA have increased their share of the wealth of this country over the last 30 years.
    The working people have less, the overlords have more. Is that not stolen wealth?
    I want to say that I am not looking forward to the reversal of our fortunes. I do not think that storing food and ammunition will last long.
    I love electricity and hot and cold running water. I do not want to give it up.
    I have no contempt for the yeast.
    http://wagelaborer.blogspot.com/2009/02/what-about-stupid-lazy-moral-and-crazy.html
    I believe that we could create a just and decent society, but not with 1% of the population siphoning off 60% of the wealth. Especially because they use that wealth to destroy the ecosystem.
    And, yes, pay people to be sterilized. Typical of JS that he thinks that the measure of a man is his employment status or skin color.
    Pay everyone. If you gave a woman $5,000 to be sterilized and men $4,000, regardless of income or number of children, the birthrate would drop.
    I know 2 women who have reproduced multiple times. One had asked for sterilization after her 5th child, but the doctor refused, so she’s on her 9th.
    That is ridiculous. She only has one with her. The rest are with DCFS.
    Same with the other one. She only has one. The other 8 are with her parents, except for the ones already in the prison system.
    And then the city did a big thing where they built a fence around the yard for the grandparents who so selflessly take care of their grandchildren!!
    Yeah, because their daughter is an irresponsible idiot who pops a kid out every couple of years and leaves it with them! What’s so inspiring about that?

  162. Jaego Scorzne November 17, 2009 at 2:37 am #

    You’re right; I was just mostly having fun, though John Rawls does say that. You are in a strong position-even compared to most survivalists. I think I’m envious! I’m planning to go to the Northern Wilderness and try to learn some new skills. You already have your skills.

  163. Jaego Scorzne November 17, 2009 at 2:57 am #

    Let’s Look at two extremes of ethnocentrism: Whites from Northern Europe the least, and Jews the most. Which of these types is more common thoughtout the World? Extreme ethnocentrism is the norm of most of the world’s people. Whites, expecially of Northern European descent, are very unusual. But we don’t know ourselves in relation to others. Because of relentless propaganda, we think we are the ethnocentric ones! And Jews are so used to this state of affairs that they have begun to take it for granted. Last year and ADL politician lamented about losing in California “after all they did for those people”. Mexicans aren’t like Whites-they’re like Jews. They’ll use us until they don’t need us anymore and then throw us away. So once this is realized, one knows that that America is finished. We have brought in people who will not adapt to us but will only take from us.
    It’s time for Whites to learn from the Jews and start looking out for our own Tribe as they look out for their’s. Hate us? Sure you do because we know the Truth about who is ripping us off and it doesn’t jive with your little world view. They financed you people for your revolutions-now they don’t need you anymore because they control capitalism. That’s all Communism ever was-a ruse, an expedient, a tactic to bring down the West. And now you’re mad at them too!

  164. Jaego Scorzne November 17, 2009 at 3:21 am #

    Wrong: the mark of a man is his character-which is not unrelated to his IQ, which in turn is not unrelated to his skin color, which is not unrelated-if only by coincidence-to the genes which select for intelligence.
    You believe in collective guilt. Very well. Then kill yourself. Or go become a slave to some Blacks. Don’t have the balls? Very well-move to a country with no history of colonialism, like Sweden. They are committing suicide too-apparently Marxists have different arguments for different situations-the goal always being the death of the West. Swede feel guilty too just because they are White. That’s exactly what is required. Anyway back to you: do something to make up for the sin of being White. And leave the rest of us the fuck alone. Even if I believed in collective guilt, my ancestors never had slaves. They were slaves as were millions of Whites througout the ages. Life has been tough all around. You’re a softy-becoming a White Slave will probably be good for you.
    What do you think of Andrew Neather’s admission that Labor has tried to genocide Whites in Britain? Trying to make a group a minority in their own Country conforms to the U.N definiton of Genocide. Not that they will care-they’re all for White Genocide too.

  165. Jaego Scorzne November 17, 2009 at 3:24 am #

    Wrong: the mark of a man is his character-which is not unrelated to his IQ, which in turn is not unrelated to his skin color, which is not unrelated-if only by coincidence-to the genes which select for intelligence.
    You believe in collective guilt. Very well. Then kill yourself. Or go become a slave to some Blacks. Don’t have the balls? Very well-move to a country with no history of colonialism, like Sweden. They are committing suicide too-apparently Marxists have different arguments for different situations-the goal always being the death of the West. Swede feel guilty too just because they are White. That’s exactly what is required. Anyway back to you: do something to make up for the sin of being White. And leave the rest of us the fuck alone. Even if I believed in collective guilt, my ancestors never had slaves. They were slaves as were millions of Whites througout the ages. Life has been tough all around. You’re a softy-becoming a White Slave will probably be good for you.
    What do you think of Andrew Neather’s admission that Labor has tried to genocide Whites in Britain? Trying to make a group a minority in their own Country conforms to the U.N definiton of Genocide. Not that they will care-they’re all for White Genocide too.

  166. ReverseEngineer November 17, 2009 at 6:04 am #

    As Uncle Joe Stalin liked to say, “You can’t make an Omelette without Breaking a Few Eggs”.
    Unlike some here, I don’t see JHKs writings as being “elitist”. I catch a tinge of sadness in the material, and I think he knows he is as much a Yeast Person as anyone else in this doomed culture. He is making observations on a collapsing society, and most of it is pretty objective, even if he does go over the top a bit on the metaphors. That’s OK, I’m guilty of that one occassionally myself. LOL.
    Its far too late for solutions pre-birth like contraception or abortion to make a difference in the overshoot problem, the Chinese tried and failed on that policy even in a culture where they could mandate such things. So it is inevitable that a “correction” in this market will occur somehow. It is most likely that in the end the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse will run herd over humanity, as they have always done. Famine, Pestilence, War and Death are coming again, as they have so many times before, just this time its on a Global Scale.
    Is this something to be happy about or glory in? Of course it is not, but I do not see that JHK does glory in this, he just calls it as he sees it. It is what it is, and it will come to pass, sadly probably sooner rather than later.
    Perhaps the only thing I would take issue with overall in JHKs ritings is that he does not really place the blame where it belongs, and it is not in the hands of the Yeast People, but in the Brewers. Its quite clear that the responsibility for this fiasco is in the hands of those who took control during the enlightenment, and who have held that control ever since. There were brief periods when that control was challenged, most recently back in the 60s, but the power was never there to wrest back control from those who built the Ponzi early on.
    Now we face a time where many will die as a result of the mismanagement by the management, that cannot be undone. However, what we CAN do now is make sure that those who were responsible will PAY for Crimes Against Humanity. We CAN exchange English Common Law for the Law of the Inquisition. We CAN resurrect the Auto da Fe. We CAN use every last Barrel left in Saudi Arabia to Boil in Oil every last Bankster on Earth. We most certainly CAN give these assholes a first class send off to the Great Beyond. We CAN make sure they experience Hell on Earth before they all meet their Maker and Burn in Everlasting Torment in the Fire and Brimstone of HELL. Its in our POWER to do that, before most of us also take that last trip in the Kayak out to Sea. Everybody dies eventually of course, but how you go out is the most important thing here. Go out with Honor, fighting for hat is right and just, and make the scumbags responsible for it all PAY on the way out. That is Eternal Justice at work.
    RE

  167. george November 17, 2009 at 7:17 am #

    Maybe it’s just the optimist in me but I see opportunities in the new order that will emerge from the ashes of hyper-consumption. We will have less to eat, but the food we eat will be healthier and taste like food ought to taste. We’ll be a lot less mobile and we’ll have less money to put up new dwellings, but the vast expanses of asphalt will be reclaimed by nature and the few dwellings we do build will be sturdier and more beautiful. We’ll learn to appreciate the ebb and flow of the natural world. Of course, I’m writing this just after taking four Prozacs and two Tylenol with warm cocoa so I might be full of shit.

  168. george November 17, 2009 at 7:18 am #

    Maybe it’s just the optimist in me but I see opportunities in the new order that will emerge from the ashes of hyper-consumption. We will have less to eat, but the food we eat will be healthier and taste like food ought to taste. We’ll be a lot less mobile and we’ll have less money to put up new dwellings, but the vast expanses of asphalt will be reclaimed by nature and the few dwellings we do build will be sturdier and more beautiful. We’ll learn to appreciate the ebb and flow of the natural world. Of course, I’m writing this just after taking four Prozacs and two Tylenol with warm cocoa so I might be full of shit.

  169. seb November 17, 2009 at 7:37 am #

    Reality is of a piece, and I can’t in all conscience just use logic to incorporate selected items in order to deduce any prefabricated antisemitic conclusion.
    But, you know how the antisemitic conclusions reign over any others in the self-pitying, throw-caution-to-the-wind, end-of-the-world scenario-building crescendo. I don’t have to tell you. My sleep was ended. I’m terrified by yesterday’s post. I hope that it was Kunstler reading through the comments and rising to the occasion, reclaiming his blog. Because, we had a great week in between.
    We have crossed the Rubicon. Now, with Kunstler’s great intelligence, we are at that one bottleneck. There’s a strategic location in the dialog where you put up or shut up. If you put up, you get banned. But, I can’t sleep.
    I’ll go down in flames; fuck it. This post, “Fate of the Yeast People”, has people like me taking a licking. Yes, I’ve been unemployed these past five months (but, I like my shirt, and my shirt likes me. I suck on the shirt-tail, and everything’s all right), jack, he already said it’s contracting. Where’s the sound of the sword clearing the scabbard? Isn’t someone about to put me out of my misery?
    You should see the look on the face of my chld having fun. He’s innocent. The smile is just plastered there. It doesn’t animate open and closed. when he waves his plastic sword around, he says, “I’m going to shing you.” I never told him about ‘shing’. He got it by himself. That’s scary. It comes from a misreading in, “Changes”, by David Bowie. Yes, a sword clearing leather does say, ‘shing’; George Washington says shing. Like Jaego said, “Check the owl on the back of the dollar bill.” We have our tokens.
    Quote—It’s at the end of this:
    Mm
    Still don’t know what I was waiting for
    And my time was running wild
    A million dead-end streets and
    Every time I thought I’d got it made
    It seemed the taste was not so sweet
    So I turned myself to face me
    But I’ve never caught a glimpse
    Of how the others must see the faker
    I’m much too fast to take that test
    Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
    Turn and face the strange
    (Ch-ch-Changes)
    Don’t want to be a richer man
    Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
    Turn and face the strange
    (Ch-ch-Changes)
    Just gonna have to be a different man
    Time may change me
    But I can’t trace time
    I watch the ripples change their size
    But never leave the stream
    Of warm impermanence
    So the days float through my eyes
    But stil the days seem the same
    And these children that you spit on
    As they try to change their worlds
    Are immune to your consultations
    They’re quite aware of what they’re going through
    Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
    Turn and face the strange
    (Ch-ch-Changes)
    Don’t tell them to grow up and out of it
    Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
    Turn and face the stranger
    (Ch-ch-Changes)
    Where’s your shame
    You’ve left us up to our necks in it

    Time may change me
    But you can’t trace time
    Unquote
    I just thought it was “Where’s the ‘shing’, you’ve left us up to our necks in it (I also thought it was “the warm and permanent sand”, but that was another logical leap)”.
    So, therefore, yes, you are observing the mutterings of people coming unhinged, of them losing their moorings. Their sanity is gone.
    Guilty!
    So, Kunstler has said this kind of stuff before, hasn’t he? Well, no. Here, he gives a forum to the black-hearted plotting against us Americans as just yeast-people, and this puts a whole new face on the anti-semitism. Let me get this straight. As long as you were the only ones put to death by inustrialized massacre this was deplorable, but as soon as the gloves come off, now we see you for your true colors: revenge. You all are laughing at what’s going to happen to us. Oh, we have to look into this Israel situation. I don’t think I’m comfortable all dying off with a whole Yiddish population still going strong in America.
    You know what? There is a whole cadre of folks making money off the internet itself. I don’t believe I cotton to that. Oh, oh! And, guess what? I hearsay that if you want to know who killed the Jews in the Holocaust, it was mainly other Jews!. So now the chips are down, huh? Okay, fine. It is all becoming clear to me. You want to shame me for homicidal mania, but I think it’s survival.
    I am not going to speculate or say that you will be served or make up little lexicographical schmeres. I’m going to study how to fracture that hyoid bone or how to stick a ricin-laced tiny metal ball in your leg with an umbrella when we pass on the sidewalk. But, Moishe Dyan, …(Aw, I gotta look that up? No. Change it to Dyan Cannon), I mean, he was good with the eyepatch thing. A lot of things about old Israel were good, as long as it lasted.

  170. seb November 17, 2009 at 7:54 am #

    Hey reverse engineer: Your fore-ordained conclusions are driven by the fact of you posting in the man’s own blog. You are giving the devil his due. He comes out of your analysis as if he’s never been shot. How much does he pay you for you to give him such a wide pass? Don’t you see what the pipes overhead you are wrenching on carry?

  171. seb November 17, 2009 at 8:40 am #

    Is there anything I can get a handle on? I don’t put the horse before the cart. I put out the data and then draw conclusions, ergo, they aren’t designed for the attention span of a cocaine slammer. They are more glacier-related. It is a cocaine night. I’m out of cocaine now, all I have left is that “ai” spelling. I also have, “What if we are able to seek special Jew-only killing things based on the 1953 Nobel Prize? We’ll call Jewish genes Jenes. It’s not taken, and it hearkens back to those stars they had to wear in the ghetto. I am going to put JHK together with Abraham Maslow, I think. All I have is JHK referencing Lake George:
    These days, I travel the road up the west shore of Lake George, in Warren County, New York, and see the sad, decomposing relics of that culture and that time in all the “playful” motels and leisure-time attractions.
    Unquote. I put a period at the end of the clause.
    Quoting now from a thing. It’s not the Sheriff’s department, but it is not going to be using the word, “strip malls”; they want you to visit. The closest whiff of that is, “pizza”; then they have B & B, if you saw, Groundhog Day, you hate those. I had to click on one of the individual towns, picked at random. It’s the Adirondacks, so, I get the picture: Appalacia, is the corresponding natural montaine boundary for the Yeast People (Hillbillies). Quote:
    friendly hospitality blending renovated historic buildings with modern amenities. Overnight visitors choose from campsites or quaint B & B’s and luxurious inns. After a round of golf, horseback riding or skiing, enjoy surprisingly diverse dining options, from pizza and ice cream to gourmet meals with an award winning wine.
    Unquote. It might be a pizza “parlor”, but don’t expect any sparkling conversation in this kind of parlor. If you don’t grab your pizza and head right out the door they call the Man. The clerks are behind a big tall counter. You can’t even lean your elbow on there to talk to them. “I’m not the one”, and, “Miss me with the traffic”, is about all they’ll say if you don’t “make sense” to their question, “Can I help you?”
    Let’s see if it is Maslow. It’s been a long time.
    This already isn’t going to work. Maslow is apparently not a Holocaust survivor. I want to know what it was like in there. Here’s Maslow:
    Was born and raised in Brooklyn, New York. the eldest of seven children. His parents were uneducated Jewish immigrants from Russia. He was slow and tidy, and remembered his childhood as lonely and rather unhappy, because, as he said, “I was the little Jewish boy in the non-Jewish neighborhood.
    ow created a visual aid to explain his theories; he called it the Hierarchy of Needs. It is a pyramid that depicts the levels of humanistic needs, psychological and physical. When a human being executes the steps of the pyramid then that individual will have reached self actualization.
    Now we have to find the writer who it was. Computer, search “Holocaust writer”.
    Google supplies “famous holocaust writers”; I take it. It is Victor Frankl, Austria, 1905. Roman Polanski is a Holocaust survivor. Didn’t know that.
    Frankl is the genius. Kunstler couldn’t shine his shoes. I’d guess it is the phrase, “The best of us did not survive”, that always puzzled me. Let’s see if there’s anything we can compare to strip malls. I mean, I can quote whatever I want; we are looking for the warped wood, wherever that occurs. I can’t quote a whole book here.
    Quote
    On Discovering the Meaning of Life
    “The meaning of our existence is not invented by ourselves, but rather detected.” p.157
    “What matters, therefore, is not the meaning of life in general, but rather the specific meaning of a person’s life at a given moment.” p.171
    “We can discover this meaning in life in three different ways: (1) by doing a deed; (2) by experiencing a value; and (3) by suffering.” p.176
    Unquote. That’s the title of the book, anyway, Man’s Search for Meaning. Jesus, can’t I at least get him standing in line for “soup”, or eating his shoes? I left my story of the Donner Party in the condo, I’m pretty sure. I’ll just read more Balzac. He has them on the run. I’m cold. I’m going back to bed. Perchance to dream of becoming rich.

  172. jean contes November 17, 2009 at 9:24 am #

    asia replied to comment from jean contes | November 16, 2009 4:42 PM | Reply
    “Jc…you are dreamimg.
    an invasion of this magnitude…50 MILLION ILLEGALS
    ‘In fact the geography (two oceans) have stopped any invasion or full scale destruction (that was not the case in Europe or Asia).’
    LOOK SOUTH OLD MAN [ OR YOUNG WOMAN]”
    I’m a (not so young) man…
    And I was talking about full blown wars.
    The geography explains (partially) the mentality of people and countries (see Montesquieu’s “Spirit of law”).
    America (US) had no real military worth ennemy or threat for almost two ceturies and all that developed a feeling of invincibility and messianism.
    The result is hubris , the “American exceptionalism” and so on.
    Not far away from the 2 century AC Roman Empire’s mentality.
    That explains also the emigration pressure from the South…Like in the Roman Empire…
    We invested in IT, we are developing again and again technological utopia artifacts (in line with the dreams about “Singularity” of Kurtzwiller) and finally we loosed the reality touch.
    We are a tribe with a “cargo cult”: an illusion of science that will, by magic, find a solution.
    So again the hubris: the end of history (US its highest expression).
    I think the history (or even prehistory) mill will wake up again. The cloudy dark ages are at the horizon…

  173. auntiegrav November 17, 2009 at 9:52 am #

    As Monbiot said: “Those who cry “overpopulation” are shifting the blame from the rich to the poor.”
    You are right to ignore population. Population is important, but not the real problem, which is overconsumption, and consumption is not directly proportional to human population except within compartmentalized cultures. The real issue is resource availability in the future, and humans COULD use muscle and blood to create usefulness, or they can simply sit and consume petrocheeze and be yeastpeople.
    Probably too late to do anything but watch at this point. One can maybe watch a little longer if they grow their own food and live off-grid. It depends on how much work you want to put into your entertainment as your species perishes, I suppose.
    Dan

  174. Zappnin November 17, 2009 at 9:55 am #

    In some, or many places, life was indeed brutish, nasty and short (like modern Somalia?); in other places life was good, even without indoor plumbing. Newton, Shakespeare, etc., wrote before oil; many and maybe most of the world’s masterpieces in science, art and literature were created long before oil.
    I am old enough to have had to start a wood fire in the kitchen stove to heat the room on a cold winter morning on our ranch in Nebraska. And our toilet was the outhouse a chilly 50′ away. This morning I took a nice warm shower and just turned on the furnace. We may not like the unfolding, but our lives and those of our children and grandchildren are gonna change, drastically.
    How does that old 50’s tune go?
    “Got along without you
    Before I met you;
    Gonna get along without you now.”

  175. messianicdruid November 17, 2009 at 10:03 am #

    As I pointed out before the people are not the leaven. The leaven are the lawless {1John 3:4}ideas that have caused each of us {leaders & followers} to become what we are; leavened. Repentance {removal of all leaven} is a revolution in thinking.
    http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/weblog/WebPosting.cfm?LogID=315

  176. wagelaborer November 17, 2009 at 10:47 am #

    We look at things differently.
    I see no relation between the content of a person’s character and their IQ. You do. This cannot be resolved by flailing at each other in this forum.
    I do feel sorry for you. Life must be unpleasant for you, hating the vast majority of your fellow human beings as you do.
    I only dislike the 1/10 of 1% who are responsible for the rapacious destruction of human society and the ecosystem. (And Somalian society was deliberately destroyed by the same forces for the same reason, by the way.)
    I assume that everyone else just wants to live a decent life and get along with their fellow beings. This makes for a happy life, with pleasant relations with those I encounter.
    As for someone’s “admission” that Labor is trying to genocide whites, what can I say?
    If someone made that assertion, they are deluded, and it’s not an admission, it’s an opinion. You can take it for gospel, I dismiss it as insane.

  177. suburbanempire November 17, 2009 at 11:39 am #

    A peek into life in a McMansion
    http://www.suburbanempire.com
    Caustic commentary….. Biting opinion…
    …..Suburban critical….. Empire Chronicle.

  178. Ardi November 17, 2009 at 11:39 am #

    Speeding trains?
    This is not the blog topic I was expecting. Jim was supposed to be crooning about Buffet’s big railroad purchase last week and how, just maybe, the biggies in finance are perhaps finally starting to “get it” even if it may be too late. Most commentators would have been flattered into at least a morsel of self recognition. OK, he’s is not Roubini but he deserves an honorable mention at the very least.
    The topic chosen, overpopulation, is so much more important that it’s easy to see how the obvious rant did not even deserve to share the same page. Even the Nobel Laureate “green revolution” soldier, Norman Borlaug, once said that all of his efforts to help feed and save billions of lives merely postponed the real crisis ahead. This is the “untouchable” crux that nearly all other global crisis topics are descended from. Jim is right. This is the “speeding train” that we should give our greatest recognition to. But will we?

  179. Ardi November 17, 2009 at 11:51 am #

    Which speeding train?
    This is not the blog topic I was expecting. Jim was supposed to be crooning about Buffet’s big railroad purchase last week and how, just maybe, the biggies in finance are finally starting to “get it” even if it may be too late. Most commentators would have been flattered into at least a morsel of self recognition. OK, he’s not Roubini but he deserves honorable mention anyway.
    The topic chosen, overpopulation, is so much more important that it’s easy to see how the expected rant did not even deserve to share the same page. Even the Nobel Laureate “green revolution” soldier, Norman Borlaug, once said that all of his efforts to help feed and save billions of lives merely postponed the real crisis ahead. This is the “untouchable” crux that nearly all other present and future global crisis topics are descended from.
    Jim is right. This is the “speeding train” that we should place in utmost importance. But will we?

  180. Jaego Scorzne November 17, 2009 at 12:16 pm #

    Opinion is one thing-fact is another. It’s not just my opinion that the races differ in IQ, it is a fact that has been proven repeatedly by research. And Whites don’t have the highest-so I’m not just bragging. Ashkenazis and East Asians have the highest. Does that not make me not a “White Supremacist”?
    Andrew Neather isn’t just “somebody”. He was an advisor to Blair and other high Labor Officials. In short, he was an Insider. He confirmed what is obvious to everybody: Labor is Anti-British and Anti-White. They are trying to swamp Britain with South Asians to destroy the culture and secure power forevver. The British National Party is the great hope of all true Englishmen now. And yes the implications are staggering. If these are the kinds of people who victory in World War Two put in power, then was the West on the wrong side to begin with?
    I feel sorry for you wasting your life supporting the failed, vicious, evil philosophy known as Marxism or Communism.
    Green is the new Red. So is Pink.

  181. DeeJones November 17, 2009 at 12:20 pm #

    Socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money to steal, then if your a Republican, you just borrow or print it, and pass the debt onto the kids.
    “What you’ll see is that cars account for over 80% of distance traveled in 11 western European countries and only gets below 80% in Denmark, Austria, and Ireland. If that’s the best European countries can do with mass transit given their high gasoline prices, denser populations, and public subsidies then the idea that Americans could shift to mass transit is absurd.” STEVE
    Commutes tend to be much shorter in Europe, and the cars much smaller & more fuel efficient as well.
    In other words, people aren’t driving 50+ miles each way in a Surburban that gets less than 10mpg.
    They are driving only 10-15 miles in a car that gets 40mpgs.
    So fuel usage is much less.
    DJ

  182. Jaego Scorzne November 17, 2009 at 12:39 pm #

    Opinion is one thing-fact is another. It’s not just my opinion that the races differ in IQ, it is a fact that has been proven repeatedly by research. And Whites don’t have the highest-so I’m not just bragging. Ashkenazis and East Asians have the highest. Does that not make me not a “White Supremacist”?
    Andrew Neather isn’t just “somebody”. He was an advisor to Blair and other high Labor Officials. In short, he was an Insider. He confirmed what is obvious to everybody: Labor is Anti-British and Anti-White. They are trying to swamp Britain with South Asians to destroy the culture and secure power forevver. The British National Party is the great hope of all true Englishmen now. And yes the implications are staggering. If these are the kinds of people who victory in World War Two put in power, then was the West on the wrong side to begin with?
    I feel sorry for you wasting your life supporting the failed, vicious, evil philosophy known as Marxism or Communism.
    Green is the new Red. So is Pink.

  183. Cash November 17, 2009 at 12:41 pm #

    I know full well what Mr Kunstler is saying. I don’t give a shit what kind of facts underlie Kunstler’s arguments. You don’t understand me so I’m going to repeat myself. He is not entitled to refer to me and hundreds of millions of others like me as “yeast”. Human life is not “yeast”. I don’t give a shit that it’s just an analogy and he’s just trying to make a point. The analogy is repulsive. He is not entitled to find “certain, serene, comfort” in the end of all this as misery is the likely outcome. (Yes, yes I saw him say that it’s all sad and tragic) If he wants to make arguments that our ways are not sustainable and more importantly, come up with solutions to avert disaster then I’m all ears but to talk about us as “morons” and “labouring orders” as if he’s so superior? Who the fuck does this guy think he is?

  184. Jaego Scorzne November 17, 2009 at 12:46 pm #

    Opinion is one thing-fact is another. It’s not just my opinion that the races differ in IQ, it is a fact that has been proven repeatedly by research. And Whites don’t have the highest-so I’m not just bragging. Ashkenazis and East Asians have the highest. Does that not make me not a “White Supremacist”?
    Andrew Neather isn’t just “somebody”. He was an advisor to Blair and other high Labor Officials. In short, he was an Insider. He confirmed what is obvious to everybody: Labor is Anti-British and Anti-White. They are trying to swamp Britain with South Asians to destroy the culture and secure power forevver. The British National Party is the great hope of all true Englishmen now. And yes the implications are staggering. If these are the kinds of people who victory in World War Two put in power, then was the West on the wrong side to begin with?
    I feel sorry for you wasting your life supporting the failed, vicious, evil philosophy known as Marxism or Communism.
    Green is the new Red. So is Pink.

  185. seb November 17, 2009 at 1:11 pm #

    What I wrote before was only semi-anitisemitism. I might just as well have called it oral sex.
    Kunstler himself does a job. He uses these words you spit on. “Population overshoot”, indeed. He might just as well have called it Operation Petticoat.
    I have had an epiphany. I slept well. My appetite has returned with the light. I am so hungry I could eat a bear. I saw a dour fat woman with two cups of store-bought coffee (Probably couldn’t be satisfied with just one). She was making a beeline for the house internet. What an internet addict. Yeah, you better apply on Craiglist. If anybody sees you in person you’ll never get a job! I have my instant. Ready, set, stir; fourteen times.
    I say look up George Will. Whatever he says goes double for me. he uses a big word every day.
    Will George Will George Will George Will George Will
    George!
    Let George do it. I want to do it with that Cokie Roberts. She maketh me to burn all down here (outlines a big square below the waist).
    And (choke) that Martha Palin, …Sandra Palin …Mister Palin’s wife. The fotter pollut’s runnin’ mate, …I can’t hang. My God. It was on Oprah Winfrey. The POW’s running mate. I don’t care if Kenny Chesney and The Cable Guy both run stark naked at her except for a gunny sack in a three-legged race. I can’t stomach that bitch. I won’t have it. I’m deserting my homeland. I’m going over the wall. Viva Mexico, hombres.

  186. seb November 17, 2009 at 1:40 pm #

    Well, no, you people are not correct, and, to get back to the point, Kunstler, there is less than a poppy seed of chance that it makes any difference how he chooses to write it. What he is writing on are the big guns, bigger than nuclear energy. They include as a percentage, all the nuclear energy.
    You might as well argue with the things, just as JHK says, thermodynamics, gravity. They don’t budge. He’s just an observer. Yes, it’s lethal. Yes, its on the back burner.
    I might have doubted him. I read for two years this column. Then I went to work in Las Vegas, as it happened, May 29, 2007. I showed my bosses the column in March, 2008 (they had been saying the typical things employers do about how great this job is; how you should buy a house). They handed it back that very day (it was all printed out, placed in a folder). By December, 2008, they were saying how smart I was, instead of saying anything about the contents of those blogs (they always say how smart you are when they are going to fire you). No, it isn’t how smart I am, and no startegy will save you, Alex.
    I might have thought it was hooey, except that I gave up looking for the scientific, technological gurus who wish to refute its conclusions. Kunstler, you broke their backs. Imagine! Scientists the like of those who built the atom bomb. Where are they, refuting this conclusion in Clusterfuck Nation? No, they paid homage to Kunstler by inviting him onto the CBS Evening News. Our goose is cooked.
    He is not even a scientist. He has acting, journalism, other things, in his blood. I want to say courage. It isn’t just deploring the strip-mall America and ugly houses. He’s got something to say. The taste is not so sweet. If a real bona fide scientist met with him for a debate on these issues, trying to sell a new program of alternate energy, Kunstler, little Mort Kunstler here, would dump his dick in the dirt.

  187. asia November 17, 2009 at 2:07 pm #

    JIM K:
    I was reading this article from WSJ to a semi-employed friend in siliconvallee…He said ‘ public workers in Sf are on strike…janitors cant live on 100k a year’
    I was speachless…janitors making 100k.
    ‘Life on Severance: Comfort, Then Crisis – WSJ.comNov 10, 2009’
    and FEFE..maybe you should run for public office..telling others what to sya or do!

  188. Paul November 17, 2009 at 2:17 pm #

    Great book.
    Have owned a copy for almost 20 years now.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_After_Man:_An_Anthropology_of_the_Future

  189. asia November 17, 2009 at 2:45 pm #

    ‘the real crisis ahead’ INDEED
    but for africa/ india/china/ middle east its already here..at least as judged by the news!
    didnt more die in darfur then the holocaust

  190. melinda November 17, 2009 at 3:01 pm #

    The cocoon of normality prevents us from appreciating how peculiar and special recent times have been in this country. We suppose, tautologically, that because things have always seemed the way they are, that they always have been the way they seem. The collective human imagination is a treacherous place.
    man oh man what a powerfully true phrase.
    The world is indeed a seriously troubled place.
    “We” got way ahead of ourselves, caught up in the
    material. I didn’t have children which gave me the ability to focus on the bigger picture, and started reading JHK Home From Nowhere. He has always put into words what I feel and see about our culture.
    It has spiraled out of control. By the time we hear in on the TV, it isn’t NEWs. It’s old, has happened already. done. “They just cushion it so the masses won’t freak out.”
    It will be a major REadjustment back to more simple times. I remember them tho, and have always been troubled by consumerism, the mchouses,
    and having to depend on cars to get anywhere, which is nowhere.
    Kids really do need to be able to get everywhere on bikes, walking, etc.
    All of this needed cars to get anywhere is simple inane. Not healthy. preaching to the choir here.

  191. melinda November 17, 2009 at 3:02 pm #

    The cocoon of normality prevents us from appreciating how peculiar and special recent times have been in this country. We suppose, tautologically, that because things have always seemed the way they are, that they always have been the way they seem. The collective human imagination is a treacherous place.
    man oh man what a powerfully true phrase.
    The world is indeed a seriously troubled place.
    “We” got way ahead of ourselves, caught up in the
    material. I didn’t have children which gave me the ability to focus on the bigger picture, and started reading JHK Home From Nowhere. He has always put into words what I feel and see about our culture.
    It has spiraled out of control. By the time we hear in on the TV, it isn’t NEWs. It’s old, has happened already. done. “They just cushion it so the masses won’t freak out.”
    It will be a major REadjustment back to more simple times. I remember them tho, and have always been troubled by consumerism, the mchouses,
    and having to depend on cars to get anywhere, which is nowhere.
    Kids really do need to be able to get everywhere on bikes, walking, etc.
    All of this needed cars to get anywhere is simple inane. Not healthy. preaching to the choir here.

  192. melinda November 17, 2009 at 3:06 pm #

    The cocoon of normality prevents us from appreciating how peculiar and special recent times have been in this country. We suppose, tautologically, that because things have always seemed the way they are, that they always have been the way they seem. The collective human imagination is a treacherous place.
    man oh man what a powerfully true phrase.
    The world is indeed a seriously troubled place.
    “We” got way ahead of ourselves, caught up in the
    material. I didn’t have children which gave me the ability to focus on the bigger picture, and started reading JHK Home From Nowhere. He has always put into words what I feel and see about our culture.
    It has spiraled out of control. By the time we hear in on the TV, it isn’t NEWs. It’s old, has happened already. done. “They just cushion it so the masses won’t freak out.”
    It will be a major REadjustment back to more simple times. I remember them tho, and have always been troubled by consumerism, the mchouses,
    and having to depend on cars to get anywhere, which is nowhere.
    Kids really do need to be able to get everywhere on bikes, walking, etc.
    All of this needed cars to get anywhere is simple inane. Not healthy. preaching to the choir here.

  193. seb November 17, 2009 at 3:14 pm #

    Hey, Asia (Asia’s the looker-upper around here).
    Asia, I was writing again. You know what that means.
    Sep 9, 2009 … Tilting at windmills is an English idiom which means attacking imaginary enemies, or fighting unwinnable or futile battles. …
    (Wikipedia)
    Yes, everything’s on the internet.
    I have been getting back around to the point, and I don’t have any way of retracting what I already wrote.
    I thought I was at the point before.
    I wasn’t. I have been walking in Kunstler’s footsteps. I am doing things he usually does. Here is what he says he does:
    Every time I do a Q and A after a college lecture, somebody says (with a fanfare of indignation) – so as to reveal their own brilliance in contrast to my foolishness – “You haven’t said anything about overpopulation!”
    Right. I usually don’t bother.
    See, he gives a college lecture. You can’t go wrong, okay? So, what is it you try to do and it can go wrong? Well, I am an ant. I am down here. But, as a scienitist, I perform experiments. I don’t make anything used in anything.
    My latest experiment was to drive a psychiatrist out of his mind with psi and cause the shooting of 40 soldiers on a stateside army base.
    Please note that I have no qualms about saying I am an ex-convict. I am a former mental patient. I was against official US policy all during the Vietnam War and still am. I’ll tell you how to manufacture methamphetamine and this will actually work. I don’t need to bother saying I am a witch. You’ll just say I’m a dork; “There are no witches.” Fine, then. I am against Obama. Why? Guess why.
    I went out the five steps to the restaurant. I picked up a menu. The waiter wanted to know where I wanted to sit. I wanted to know where, outside, the sun wouldn’t shine on me. He said there was a shade. The time now is 11:54. When this posts it’ll be 3:15 (Asia, verify). Waiter said Jessie would be right with me and explain today’s specials. I was seated in the blazing sun. I asked Jessie while squinting what her name was, Sarah Palin? Kunstler, can you verify that a veranda will admit slanted, blazing sunlight at the appointed hour in a city with four-story buildings across the street? while you are at it, would you mind if, instead of yeasters we just let people who require the delivery of heating oil first? Oh, die. I’m geting mean. In grabbing up all the bottles of what pass for precursors, I spilled an ounce of essences on me. I can’t think from the floral hell I am in.
    Yeah, my laundry is dry. You comment. Obama lies. Everybody lies. But, when you run experiments, it doesn’t lie.
    You must have gone out in public two weeks ago. The lies are astounding out there.
    “What does the word, ‘specials’ mean to you.”
    “It means items especially featured today.”
    “It doesn’t mean, say, you are going to sell a breakfast that usually goes for $7.50 today for $5?”
    “No.”
    “Well, I have $12 in here (pocket).”
    “Well, biscuits and gravy is only 8.50.”
    “I liked those waffles I saw.”
    “Anything to drink?”
    “No, I have to go get some more money. You can’t leave enough for your tip if you did the math yourself. I give up. I’m getting my own coffee cup, and I’m sitting over there.”
    I had gotten the LA Times. This guy (Asia): Wall Street Journal. Let me save you a lie, you were reading it online.
    The LA Times is playing up the heinous death-camp elitism seemingly running rampant out there. I never wished for another mass murder again so soon after a good one before. They have caused a Mexican Hat Dance of a methamphetamine drug war, and talk about the Mexican police as if there’s some difference! What else do they say- – –
    “O.C. Wants More Lanes, but L.A. won’t Go Down that Road.”

  194. Vengeur November 17, 2009 at 3:48 pm #

    I have to laugh at how you can’t bear to say the word “immigration”, Jim. For someone who hates incessant suburban expansion as much as you do, you don’t dare suggest that we might just want to slow the legal and illegal inflow of immigrants in order to allow our ever shrinking formerly wide open spaces a little breather from suburban expansion. Because to do so would not only reveal you to be a sane and honest protector of the environment. And expose you to knee-jerk accusations of racism and xenophobia, which would be the price for telling the truth. I’m not gonna hold my breath for that one.

  195. DeeJones November 17, 2009 at 4:00 pm #

    “Right on. Think of what has not yet happened. A large percentage of homes have 2 or more autos. By families moving to one vehicle, carbon footprints, resources used, etc. etc would halve. Newer homes being built are much smaller than a few short years ago. And on and on and on.
    We have a history of wasting an enormous amount of stuff. Think peoples attitudes aren’t changing? Well they are because they must. If you didn’t get that we have to change our ways intellectually, you get it (eventually) financially.
    We are already, on a personal level, making necessary changes to adapt to the current economy. Nothing new there, that is the history of mankind. Just because our fearless leaders are fucking feckless, gutless and clueless doesn’t mean all of us are sitting on our hands waiting for them to act. We’re doing it on our own. Fuck these half-wits. They come and they go. If you want to rely on their stupidity and ineptness you will reap exactly what they sow, a shit-storm.”
    wow! FooFoo finally pulled its head out of its rear orifice and said something that made some sense, instead of just insulting everyone.
    Maybe, just maybe, there is some small amount of hope for the human farce after all….
    Or not.

  196. DeeJones November 17, 2009 at 4:03 pm #

    P.S.: Next time you get one of thse –
    Internal Server Error
    The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
    Please contact the server administrator, jhkunstler@mac.com and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
    More information about this error may be available in the server error log.
    INSTEAD Of hitting the BACK button, just type KUNSTLER.COM in the address bar to get back here w/out double posting.
    Or not….

  197. dale November 17, 2009 at 4:05 pm #

    Fefe,
    Unfortunately the Moron Jaego actually receives support around here by an idiot with a taste for obscure 20th century literature and a coterie of other troglodytes who think Obama is the anti-Christ. Never mind that genetically his musings are complete horse crap, as I demonstrated here a couple of months ago, he keeps ranting on like a broken copy of the Horst Wessel song. But as shit attracts flies, some of his dipshit brown shirt buddies are now starting to mouth similar garbage on this site. Must be some sort of propaganda attack from an American Nazi website Why JHK doesn’t 86 them is a mystery to me.

  198. asoka November 17, 2009 at 4:21 pm #

    dale said: “a coterie of other troglodytes who think Obama is the anti-Christ.”
    When they are not saying Obama is the Messiah or Obama is a celebrity. Anything but the facts:
    Obama helped people on the south side of Chicago get their heat turned back on when he was a community organizer. Obama was a university law professor who taught constitutional law. Then Obama became a State Representative. Then he became a United States Senator. Then he became President of the United States and a Nobel Peace Prize winner.
    Obama has earned everything he has received and is doing a great job as president, in spite of the mess he inherited from fiscally irresponsible Republicans.
    Conservatives, libertarians, and Republicans cannot be trusted with financial responsibility… but then they seem intent on fighting with each other, so Obama should be president as long as he wants to remain president. And I don’t think he will quit his executive position… like quitter Palin did.

  199. Qshtik November 17, 2009 at 4:56 pm #

    SEB/Steve,
    I clicked the Reply button on your above comment but my reply is not related to it. Rather, it is related to the last comment (#429) you wrote on the prior week’s essay. You were replying to my comment (#428). My comment, in turn, was a reply to Asia. Since this all took place in the middle of the night (EST) and shortly before Kunstler’s new essay (about the Yeast People) appeared, it is likely you were the only one who read it. Everyone else woke up Monday AM and went straight to the new essay and never saw those last two comments (428 & 429). OK, that sets the stage.
    I am sorely disappointed in you for the things you said about me. I had you pegged as possibly the most brilliant commenter at CFN … somewhat deranged (even by your own admission) but schizo nevertheless. Then I come along replying to a simple statement made by Asia about the carbon footprint in Dubai being the worst on the planet and I take that opportunity to write a spoof (that I am in Dubai as a freelancer doing an arms deal) to bust Asoka’s balls and YOU (whose intelligence I had such high regard for) actually swallow this cockamammie (sp?) story hook, line and sinker. I AM in Dubai but it is a vacation and my wife is with me. And we’re both old enough that no pool boy is going to be panting to get in my wife’s pants so you can forget that wet dream. Who the hell travels to the middle east and announces on the internet that they are there to do an arms deal? How could you not know this was a joke? When I typed “hahaha” wasn’t that a hint?
    Now, lets discuss the mean-spirited remark I made that really set you off: about feeling sorry for you and a whole list of other people who regularly post here. It’s TRUE … I DO feel sorry that Jaego, Abbey, Zzz, Asoka have lived childless lives (I take them at their word that this is the case). They may not know it or they may disagree but children are the ONLY potentially lasting legacy one can ever leave and these poor bastards don’t see it. Asoka is the most pathetic … getting the big V at 19 years old and bragging that he’s saving mother earth … 6 billion people later … nice try … what a fucking idiot. And Abbey. Who can really tell what fucked her up. Now she spends her life saving cats and dogs and reading Holq .. whatever-the-fuck-his name-is … trying to fill the void that should have been filled nurturing grand children. Well, she, like you, came right out and said something about her own mental illness and even talked about missing that condition, which is a laugh because she is obviously paranoid, so maybe that explains it. This brings me to you and Scott … two guys with serious women problems. Unlike the others, you both have kids. Both of your stories about being fucked over financially and every other way by your wives is painful to read and so I truthfully say “I feel sorry for you.” I’ll caveat that by adding that if both your wives told their side of the story we might all be feeling sorry for them.
    And the whole legal thing … I have never understood why some people simply can’t keep their nose clean and stop having confrontations with the law. Abbey loves instructing people how to handle getting a ticket from the cops … don’t roll down the window … place your license up against the glass so he can read it, then turn it over and press the other side to the glass. Why not teach these people not to speed (or what ever the hell their infraction was in the first place). What the fuck is wrong with people? Like Mike Tyson.

  200. asoka November 17, 2009 at 5:59 pm #

    qshtik said: “Asoka is the most pathetic … getting the big V at 19 years old and bragging that he’s saving mother earth … 6 billion people later … nice try … what a fucking idiot.”
    I note your opinion, but I do not share it. I have lived my life according to my conscience. Whether or not “6 billion people later” my decisions made any difference, is really not of any importance.
    I have no regrets about any of my decisions. I sleep well… and, if God does exist, I have no qualms about meeting my maker because, even as an atheist pacifist, I have lived my life by New Testament principles:
    Live simply. Respect others, even those of different races and classes. Do no harm to others (don’t buy guns that allow you to kill others, don’t give military “service” to Caesar, don’t support abortion or the death penalty, etc.)

  201. asoka November 17, 2009 at 6:01 pm #

    fefe/OEO/zzzzz said: “Calls for impeachment will come well in advance.”
    Do you know what impeachment is? It is an accusation, that’s all.
    Clinton was impeached. He finished out his presidency.
    An impeachment needs to be based upon something real, not on infantile partisan wishing.

  202. DeeJones November 17, 2009 at 6:26 pm #

    “Or not.
    Not. Not as long as fucktards such as yourself continue to suck air.” fOOfOO
    I just knew it was too good to be true.
    So hey mutherfucker, come and suck my asshole, and dont for get to use plenty of tongue, get it in there nice & deep. mutherfucker.
    Or not….

  203. Laura Louzader November 17, 2009 at 7:25 pm #

    Yes, the Old Tymes were lovely, weren’t they?
    You don’t even have to go back to 17th and 18th century Europe to realize how painful and brutish life can be- 19th Century United States of England will do just fine.
    Houses filled with coal smoke… 12-hour work days in mine shafts so short and cramped the men and women who worked in them had to crawl on their hands and knees… child labor clear down to the age of 4… average lifespan of 56 years… officially sanctioned domestic violence…slavery..malaria, yellow fever, diptheria, smallpox, scarlet fever…horse dung all over dimly lit streets.. houses that burned down almost on a match..
    Yeah, wonderful times, something to idealize and aspire to.
    What is so dreadful about modern times is not the incredible advancement and efficacy and comfort, but the fact that we took it so for granted and exalted waste as “economic growth”, even though we knew fairly early on that the fossil resources that fueled it all were finite. “We always knew we’d run out of it someday,” my 76-year-old mother said musingly, as we discussed Peak Oil. If that’s so, I asked, why did the leadership of the era do its best to induce sprawl development and manic consumption?

  204. asia November 17, 2009 at 7:58 pm #

    hahahahahahahahahahah
    DONT MENTION ;
    RACE
    IMMIGRATION
    ILLEGALS..round here
    and go to ‘ ALIEN NATION’ [ brimelow]
    to learn mexicos population explosion…1900 to 2010
    hahahahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahahahha
    sorry seb but i cant fathiom yr depth,,and depravity

  205. asia November 17, 2009 at 8:02 pm #

    advice to jimmy k:
    for another 100$ a month you could get a REAL webmaster
    this ‘ operation aborted’ must be drivin folks who dont know to ignore it CRAZY

  206. asia November 17, 2009 at 8:04 pm #

    JEST DID IT AGAIN;
    Internal Server Error
    The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
    Please contact the server administrator, jhkunstler@mac.com and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
    More information about this error may be available in the server error log.
    ——————————————————————————–
    Apache/2.2.3 (Red Hat) Server at kunstler.com Port 80
    FOLKS IF YOU GET THIS IGNORE IT
    or open the page twice, at the same time

  207. asia November 17, 2009 at 8:08 pm #

    did you get banned again under yr last ‘ handle’?

  208. asia November 17, 2009 at 8:10 pm #

    would you start a facebook page?
    theres one [ probably college students] who
    HATE THE GEOGRAPHY OF NOWHERE
    start a kunstler klub at FB
    …that way those who join…maybe i can see their faces..and they mine

  209. wagelaborer November 17, 2009 at 8:36 pm #

    Are reading skills higher among East Asians and Jews?
    I didn’t say that IQ doesn’t vary between races.
    I said that character has nothing to do with IQ.
    And in my blog, I said that IQ should have nothing to do with having a decent life.
    That with our productive capacity, our human resources, and some cooperation, we could all have a modest, decent life, regardless of IQ.
    Go ahead, revert to your American upbringing and recoil in horror at the idea of sharing and cooperation with our fellow creatures.
    SCARY!! Socialism! Run for the hills and live off roots and rodents, shoot at people, and live in isolation, rather than band together and try to make life better for all.
    No thanks.

  210. ctemple November 17, 2009 at 8:39 pm #

    I realize that JHK was kidding in a way, but the lumpish proletariat in the middle of the country got too much and weren’t happy being serfs anymore, we need to get rid of them?? Crematoriums, and killing all of the females?
    This sounds like nazi talk to me.
    No es bueno, no me gusta.

  211. Muhammed Atta November 17, 2009 at 10:09 pm #

    I can’t be the only one here who would like to draft Chris Korda in ’12…. Am I wrong?
    Atta
    http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
    4 simple Pillars jim, and it will all be again in balance!

  212. abbeysbooks November 17, 2009 at 10:15 pm #

    No where did I mention speeding. You labeled it speeding and then began your rant. You have a habit of taking this tactic to provoke argument.
    You can get stopped for all sorts of reasons. In the example I mentioned it was a broken back brake light the driver did not kow was out.
    My way is to just schmooze the officer and go on but his was different as he was trying to make a point. So that was his way.
    N9ow I won’t tell you what do do when they come after you with a warrant and want to search your home. Do you know the rules for that, Q? I bet not.
    It was nice here when you weren’t.

  213. abbeysbooks November 17, 2009 at 10:20 pm #

    Bruno Bettleheim writes about his time in the concentration camp. He wrote that it was the most brutal of people who survived. That intellectuals succumbed first. Others have written how the Jehovah’s Witnesses did OK as they gave a good day’s work for them and didn’t complain.
    Yes it will be the physical brutes who will survive.
    Hello Stone Age.
    We can get a lot poorer here in the US and still keep a totalitarian government in control. Third world countries do it all the time.
    Now everyone knows they can push Obama around. From one extreme to the other we go.

  214. jerry November 17, 2009 at 10:31 pm #

    James is correct again. The country is filled with idiots. That will never change.
    Our way of life, and what we knew it to be is disappearing. Many went from New York state to Arizona and Florida leaving behind a colder, although beautiful part of the country for warmer havens, or they thought.
    The North decays. But, those that stayed, migrated to large homes built out of pastures, which no longer produced food and food stuffs.
    The economy as it collapses, will also collapse in the Sunbelt states. In the North, we can keep warm by bundling up, which is easier than to stay cool in Arizona with A/C.
    The North had self contained communities, with shopping districts often around the residential streets. That created less of a footprint. There will likely be a day, way out in the future, where such places will return to life again.
    http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

  215. jerry November 17, 2009 at 10:33 pm #

    James is correct again. The country is filled with idiots. That will never change.
    Our way of life, and what we knew it to be is disappearing. Many went from New York state to Arizona and Florida leaving behind a colder, although beautiful part of the country for warmer havens, or they thought.
    The North decays. But, those that stayed, migrated to large homes built out of pastures, which no longer produced food and food stuffs.
    The economy as it collapses, will also collapse in the Sunbelt states. In the North, we can keep warm by bundling up, which is easier than to stay cool in Arizona with A/C.
    The North had self contained communities, with shopping districts often around the residential streets. That created less of a footprint. There will likely be a day, way out in the future, where such places will return to life again.
    http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

  216. abbeysbooks November 17, 2009 at 10:38 pm #

    You missed Bruno Bettleheim. His account is worth reading. Different perspective from Frankl’s.

  217. abbeysbooks November 17, 2009 at 10:46 pm #

    Well then use Marx’s term: lumpen to label uneducated unskilled people who are neither the proletariat but the farm laborer not the owner.

  218. abbeysbooks November 17, 2009 at 10:50 pm #

    If you are not reading 20th and 21st century intellectuals then you are way behind in your understanding. I am not in favor of racism. Jaego is but Jaego generalizes to an incredible degree with his statistics.
    I am only interested in the individual not what class or race she comes from. Or he.
    We are all part of the problem but most of us don’t know what the problem really is. It is the combination of power and knowledge and it is a faceless grid of intention and cruelty. It is relentless.
    See Foucault on power.

  219. abbeysbooks November 17, 2009 at 10:54 pm #

    I DO feel sorry that Jaego, Abbey, Zzz, Asoka have lived childless lives (I take them at their word that this is the case). They may not know it or they may disagree but children are the ONLY potentially lasting legacy one can ever leave and these poor bastards don’t see it.
    Here you go again. Just because someone doesn’t give birth to children does not mean they lead childless lives. I have probably had more echildren in my life than everyone here combined.
    My god Q what makes you such a prick all the time. And a dumb one at that.

  220. asoka November 17, 2009 at 11:02 pm #

    Laura,
    It is not so easy to generalize 19th century and now.
    19th Century: Houses filled with coal smoke…
    21st Century: Tightly insulated houses with radon and indoor air pollution
    SOURCE: EPA ( http://www.epa.gov/radon/ )
    ============
    19th Century: 12-hour work days in mine shafts so short and cramped the men and women who worked in them had to crawl on their hands and knees… child labor clear down to the age of 4…
    21st Century: OSHA worker safety laws and laws against child labor, thanks to Big Government.
    ============
    19th Century: average lifespan of 56 years…
    21st Century: average lifespan: Japan 82.6, United States 78.2, Swaziland 39.6, World average is 67.2 (SOURCE: UN)
    =============
    19th Century: officially sanctioned domestic violence…
    21st Century: official criminalization of domestic violence thanks to Big Government
    =============
    19th Century: slavery
    21st Century: slavery ( http://www.iabolish.org/slavery_today/country_reports/index.html )
    ============
    19th Century: malaria, yellow fever, diptheria, smallpox, scarlet fever…
    21st Century: SARS, AIDS, swine flu, malaria, yellow fever, diptheria, small pox, anthrax, bioterrorism
    SOURCE: CDC ( http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/agentlist-category.asp )
    ==========
    19th Century: horse dung all over dimly lit streets..
    21st Century: no horse dung on dimly lit streets, more lighted streets
    ===========
    19th Century: houses that burned down almost on a match..
    21st Century: laws that require smoke detectors, thanks to Big Government (state and local laws)

  221. asoka November 17, 2009 at 11:05 pm #

    My comments are being “held for approval by the blog owner” and then they don’t appear.
    So, I assume the blog owner does not approve of my contributions.
    I’ll try again next week and if this continues, I’m gone.

  222. messianicdruid November 17, 2009 at 11:43 pm #

    “In the example I mentioned it was a broken back brake light the driver did not know was out.”
    My first response in this situation is always, “Can you fix it?”

  223. seb November 18, 2009 at 12:05 am #

    You won me back. I didn’t want to get down on old Qshtick, anyway. your comment warms the cockles of my heart. Can you forgive me?
    Now, onto the whole thing of the war of the words. What happens is that even people who are exactly alike will disagree, like a cat hissing at the cat in the mirror. I admit it, you had me fooled. I am gullible, though I don’t swallow.
    What it was, was the nerve endings which, again, are too raw. This is mainly from personal issues (unemployment and consequent domestic spat), so, with the small examination time devoted to skepticism, I went off on a tear. And, these are difficult in literature. You must shoehorn them in. It’s called the dozens. I hadn’t just seen Mr. Saturday Night. I had also seen Heist, and the horse, Man-o-War is featured in both films, as a euphemism for well-hung.
    You have a style, too. You imply that all someone has to do is avoid conflict with the police to be happy, and any police contact means that they weren’t smart enough to avoid it. Not true. I have slammed a police car with a rock, right on the light bar, whle yelling “Pigs!” I have seen cops slapped to the ground. I have outrun cops. I hate cops. Fuck the police. And, when I get next to a cop again, I plan on using this:
    COP Anything in the car I should know about?
    ME Your mama’s panties from last night.
    So, as you tremble in fear of them, step aside, Q, because we got work to do. The wife jokes; dynamite. This is the internet, too. Maybe, just maybe, I could break up a home just from what I say. I’m doing literature here.
    In addition, after I posted my weak first attempts, unsubtantiated by intelligence (your wife’s name, the kind of car she drives, etc.), I went to bed, and I saw how Balzac did it.
    Quote
    THE KING’S SWEETHEART
    “My father has sold me to you, but if you take me, you will make a bad bargain, seeing that I would rather offer myself to the passers-by than to you. I promise you a disloyalty that shall only finish with death-yours or mine.”
    Unquote
    Well, this is classic literature, and it struck me as coincidental that I should discover it minutes after giving it a whirl myself. I had previously only known of the man from The Music Man. He’s mentioned in the lyrics.
    Truth is, I am jealous of you for being in Dubai. I was already in Las Vegas. My employer has a project in Dubai, but I don’t have the slightest idea how to get on over there. I know I can stand the heat now.

  224. Jaego Scorzne November 18, 2009 at 12:06 am #

    Another champion of Free Speech makes an appearance! Yay Liberalism!
    Ok Champ, here’s the sitch: we’ve torn our Society apart for the last fourty years or more because of Race. If Blacks don’t do as well in school or at the workplace, it’s been assumed that it isn’t their fault-it’s our’s for discriminating against them-even in incredibly subtle ways. They now have teachers (one of the biggest Liberal Careers) engaging in Maoist self criticism as to how they are sabotaging Black Kids. And a few years after all this started-and with no public discussion at all-they started including Hispanics in the deal. Hispanics also do very poorly in school. Affirmative Action was supposed to help the historically disadvantaged Blacks-why on Earth was it given to Immigrants? Why have IMMIGRANTS been put over Whites?
    And what if, what if, all of this is bullshit? What if it isn’t our fault-fundamentally? What if Blacks and Hispanics just aren’t as smart as Whites? That in fact, is what Psychologists have found. And that is what I claim.
    Got it champ? See why it’s important now? No? That’s ok, you will when you get older and get passed over in favor of Coloreds. Don’t feel bad-alot of people are like you. They only realize things when it effects them personally.
    Imagination is an element in having a first rate mind. Most people have little or none-which is why Democracy is a failure and why America was set up to be a Republic not a Democracy. Nothing could be crueler than to leave the People to their own inadequate devices. But, But, NO. The Founding Fathers loathed Democracy. Loathed it. The High School Civics Teachers lied to you. They get paid to tell lies.

  225. Jaego Scorzne November 18, 2009 at 12:19 am #

    He said it once a few months ago at the end of one of his columns-very hestitant and shy-like a high school virgin about to go out on a date with a known Cad or Man about Town. I think He knows but is afraid of the blow back from his Liberal Tribesmen.

  226. seb November 18, 2009 at 12:44 am #

    Obama’s forty-five years old. At eighteen, the year was 1982. From 1968, there was a transformation in American colleges. That year, inside of “Ten Days in May”, MLK and RFK were each shot in the head. The green grass that grew up had fourteen years. Think that might,/i> be enough time to completely revamp the curriculum? Well, it was, and Mr. Obama is just the frontrunner of a whole production. He’s manufactured. If he’s manufactured right, he won’t get his head blown off. But, you know, with our country out of its mind, drafting and killing its own along with four million peasants who were no threat to us, Martin Luther King dying was the least he could have done. People were standing in line for the privilege. But, as you can see, this is what you deserve when you stood by and watched everything you loved raped and burned. This. Not even realistic change-mojo heebie-jeebie jigaboos. He learned his part by watching Eddie Murphy on Saturday Night Live, not Butt-Wheat, the MLK impression. I never watched Murphy. The show wasn’t any good any more by then. I like Angela Davis and her Communist prof, Herbert Marcuse, and, I went to their school. But, I know for a fact they crank out activists from that diploma mill, and these cheese-eaters do not have the chops.

  227. Jaego Scorzne November 18, 2009 at 12:57 am #

    A valid objection-your first. But incorrect as it turns out. Study the seminal (feminist call seminars ovariums) work of Laurence Kohlberg. He investigated moral development. He found a strong correlation between intelligence and morality-but not a one to one. No rather that Intelligence was necessary for higher moral development but not sufficient. Doesn’t guarante it in other words. The mad scientist/Dick Cheney types are an all to real occurence. You also need good role models and family life etc. And even then, you still might get a psychopath. The X factor is very strong in this realm.
    This correlation does make some sense if you look at the cognitive development work of Piaget. If you show a child a block with red on one side and blue on the other half, they will think that you are seeing what they are seeing. Show the child the block again, let them examine the whole thing seeing one half blue and one half red. Put it between you and him and ask again: again he will say that you are seeing what he sees. At that stage, they just can’t take the other person’s point of view cognitively. And if they can’t take the other’s point of view cognitively, they wont be able to do it emotionally either. And certainly not morally which involves both cognition and empathy. This is very basic, but it shows the principle involved. We have to be both be able to see the other’s point of view and be willing to do it. Someone like Cheney can but doesn’t want to. When the Mexicans started singing our National Anthem in Spanish and also mistranlated it to change the meaning-did they know they were doing something wrong? One of their big DJs was embarrased at their incredible crudity and chastised them. I saw a clip of him-a very White looking Mexican.
    Apparently East Asians excel at Math and spatial relations but not so much in the Verbal. So the Ashkenazis, who are very verbal, probably excel them there; probably why their IQ is the highest-they don’t fall down on Math as much as the East Asians do on the Verbal. Nothing to do with immigrants-all this was done with Asians born here or with their native language over there. Psychometrics is FAR MORE SOPHISTICATED than the Mass Media wants people to know. Your people the Communists had the Police come and humiliate Professor Rushton at the University of Ontario. They concluded, “He’s crazy but harmless”. What a hideous mess the Reds are making of Canada-as they will here now that the Hate Crime Laws have passed.
    Professor Rushton is one of the World’s foremost Psychometricians. Check him out in the literature-he’s published alot about many different subjects. Not a hack, crank, or one trick pony by any means.

  228. seb November 18, 2009 at 1:07 am #

    Oh, damn. How embarrassing. Tryin’ to get fancy. I shouldn’t even italicize. Leave it for the reader. I also want to rename Vegas Helicopolis, so the boosters can pronounce it as a derivative of Healy, and if you live there you can say it like a suburb of hell. One weather guy with a sense of humor put the “cooling trend” in perspective (when it drops out of the triple digits); he’d say, “It will be ten degrees not as hot for the remainder of the week.”
    Dee Jones, I was raised to believe that brain damage was a matter of choice. You can choose to drink whiskey (and fight over water), or drugs, one man’s vat of slime is another man’s livelihood is a third man’s poison. But, I can’t get used to Listerine that looks like vodka, and I am drinking more of it.
    I messed it up again, and this one is instructive. My son had me buy a useless IMO toy, with a balloon’s air powering helicopter blades. How are you going to hold the end of a balloon open long enough to get it over a spout without losing too much air? He just liked to throw it on the floor and step on it (Hmm, so what am I doing now? Think.). The damn—well, characterization: Marilyn Monroe “Dirty” Sanchez—okay. I saw the package and I made up the word, hoping that there was something redeeming. The news has words, too,; not just news. I got ‘Helicopolis’, not Heliopolis. The two ways to pronounce Helicopolis make it work better. See what I did there? I had you thinking I liked you, then I took you another way.
    God could make this post on the first try.

  229. Jaego Scorzne November 18, 2009 at 1:24 am #

    I thought we were past this kind of thing Dale. I thought we were friends. I defeated you twice in debate-you have no answer to my question of why you refuse to capitalize the W in Whites. All you can do is start the Ad Hominem attacks.
    You need to start using me as your hate object in your metta exercise. Try to love the Beast- but first you must love the Beast within yourself. It there-everyone knows you are a Buddhist Fascist. Everyone but you that is. As Anton LaVey said, “There is a Beast in man, it must be exercised not exorcised.”
    No Metta exercise? Then I demand Tonglen. No excuses, just do it. I’ll know if you do or not so don’t try to snow me.

  230. Laura Louzader November 18, 2009 at 1:30 am #

    Funny you should speak of Dubai.
    I think of Dubai as the place where nature will take its richest revenge on our arrogant elites,a diamond-encrusted Venus Fly Trap for dumb, arrogant super-rich ruling-class people that will fall further and harder than any other settlement in the world, even Las Vegas, when fuel depletion starts to bite hard, and become the world’s major deathtrap. Only the workers who are building the place and are paid $200 a month and made to live in tents on the desert without sufficient water, will survive.
    The arrogance and hubris that built this unsustainable playground for the mega-rich is hard to imagine. Everything that’s wrong and insane about our settlement and consumption patterns is magnified about a thousand times here. This is the most wasteful and unsustainable city on planet Earth.
    Most of the managerial middle class from Europe, U.S. and elsewhere are fleeing and leaving their unpaid-for luxury cars abandoned in the parking garages because they found out that accomodation of Western lifestyles does not extend to the suspension of Muslim strictures concerning debt, and they are fleeing debtor’s prison. A friend of mine, a Pakistani-born man of the world who owns a paid-for condo there, once thought he would retire there but he’s not so keen on that now, and is opting for a much simpler retirement lifestyle in a place more intrinsically friendly to carbon-based lifeforms now that it’s clear we’re on the other side of the depletion curve.
    We will surely have an “elite” on the other side of Hubbert’s Curve, but it won’t be made of the same people who comprise it now, for elites tend to cling to the past that elevated them to their favored status. The conditions that elevated our current elites will not exist any longer, and these people will be the ones who fall furthest and hardest in the shift that is taking place.

  231. Qshtik November 18, 2009 at 3:37 am #

    Abbs, I’m running around over here in Dubai like a camel with his head cut off so I don’t have the time to write a really thoughtful reply … however, lets return to a comment you made somewhere above about the local authorities in hicksville where you live cutting down your garden twice. I don’t think you ever explained why they did that. You made it sound as though it was a totally random vicious act. Frankly, I find that hard to believe. Did you plant a garden on land that was not yours? What’s the story? I can tell that your style is to be a gadfly (particularly as regards the law/police) which no doubt pisses them off. I, obviously, live a completely different lifestyle. I do NOTHING to deliberetly piss people off and so everything runs smooth for me. I think this gadfly shtick of yours is your true joy in life.
    P.S. “Having children in your life” is infinitely different and, IMO, INFERIOR to having children that have come from your own body. Of course, it is too late for you and Asoka and I am wasting my breath. There is so much more I would like to discuss but no time right now.
    P.P.S. A note to SEB: my understanding is that the heat here in D is even hotter than in Vegas (I’ve been in V when it was continuously 115) but at the moment it is approaching winter and not bad at all … maybe 90 during the day and 75-80 at night. Quite pleasant.
    Have a nice day.

  232. Jaego Scorzne November 18, 2009 at 3:39 am #

    Define Racism and my case is made. If everyone is else is racist and we aren’t, then we will die. We are the least racist people on Earth-no other group would allow themselves to be disposessed as we are doing. Mexico hunts down her border crashers for example. All great Cultures at their height were monoracial. All great cultures become multiracial as they die. The Elites always favor aliens while their own people starve. Repent of a lifetime of wrong thinking and acting. To favor your own is the essence of love and wisdom. That doesn’t have to mean cruelty to the other. It means you send them packing to be sure though.

  233. messianicdruid November 18, 2009 at 7:26 am #

    “Define Racism and my case is made…It means you send them packing to be sure though.”
    How do you comprehend a word that has only existed for about fifty years? I propose you should consider why it has only existed for that long.
    And how do you “send them packing” when it’s their country? The Palestinians can do nothing but leave or die to satisfy the Israelis, who are the immigrants.
    http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=58330

  234. seb November 18, 2009 at 8:14 am #

    I don’t want to be an object lesson or a case in point to people. I’ve been waking up in terror each morning at about this tme. The internet’s freed up. The subject was roses. I just want to keep it to myself. But, I’m typing for all the world to see. Well, mainly Scott, since he can relate to this fresh hell. Qshtick, I wanted you to tell me how to go about working in Dubai. I guess a little hint isn’t enough.
    So, I am becoming that example now. I should have a little more pride. Laura, first I have something on clipboard where, for me and Abbeysbooks, it’s okay to be crazy:
    In The Informed Heart, Bettelheim was critical of modern society. He compared his experiences from the concentration camps—his attempts to preserve a sense of autonomy, integrity, and personal freedom—with life in modern, mass society. He viewed mass society, like that of United States or Western Europe, as dehumanizing and depersonalizing, forcing people to behave in a certain way. He noted that people have to struggle to maintain their sanity, much like inmates in the camps.
    Whatever happens to me, I’m going to blame the United States. I’m not doing it to others. I don’t exist on the basis that I can’t tell what’s going to happen. If I hadn’t gone to the nuthouse, my draft lottery number (20) would have ensured my induction. Another guy ran over a little girl, 9, in the neighborhood, and he also almost killed four or five of us as teenagers with a crazy stunt, driving uphill to catch air. And this guy, Marty Herzog, boy, he was sure adamant about his rights. You don’t have the right to run over a kid while you are looking at your face in the rear-view mirror. He should have been shot down like a dog. Of course, nowadays there’s texting.
    We’ve lost our moral compass, a frequent Kunstler theme. Let’s see what you said, Laura, I was going to quote:
    Trap for dumb, arrogant super-rich ruling-class people that will fall further and harder than any other settlement in the world, even Las Vegas, when fuel depletion starts to bite hard
    unquote
    Yeah, I believe in thinking the unthinkable, and I look at it as a debt we owe to the planet. The source is the website, “Die-off.org”, or “Olduvai theory”. There is controversy, Kunstler has touched upon it, about which places will suffer worst, I suppose because climatologists say that about GW. But, if I were God (and, I have a messiah complex), I’d submit a bill. I looked up the world’s largest cities and for everyone in all of them to die, we wouldn’t even make a dent in what we owe, maybe a billion and a half (we need five). That is the thing about Yeasters: the cities are slated to become “boiling morgues”, somebody said. Talk about being abandoned by your government. I don’t know any other way to live.
    I can watch shows in this hotel, but I can watch a program on the History Channel, The Development of Man. There is news from Olduvai Gorge, and it’s not good. I mean, what we don’t know won’t hurt us, but—Homo Sapiens and Neanderthal diverged from a common ancestor 400,000 years ago. Neanderthal needed 5,000 kcal per day, and hunted meat. Homo Sapiens was taller, exploited the environment more eficiently, pumped-out babies, etc. Had a bone spear. It was lighter. Everywhere they went, they wiped out the large animals. Not Africa, but, everywhere else. They pushed Neanderthals to the brink in Gibralter, then the Neanderthals vanished, 28,000 years ago.
    I know, like Disney, National Geographic has an agenda to push. So beware of what they are leading you to conclude. All the latest research shows that a genetic bottleneck to Homo Sapiens occurred. Our species at one time was down to 600 breeding individuals. This was in South Africa. We flourished from there, went throughout the world, and we don’t have Neanderthal genes in us.
    As scientists study stuff like this, I am sure that The Long Emergency or whatever you want to call it, doesn’t cross their minds long enough to send a text message about it.
    Even despite our minds, a will to homeostasis indicates that in each of our secret tender vicious mental sanctuaries, we are plotting for our very own destruction. I can’t resist it. We have (600, 6000 (1000%), 600,000 (100,000%), 600,000,000 (100,000,000%), 6,000,000,000 (1,000,000,000%). A billion percent increase, 300,000 years. A million percent increase every 300 years. 500,000% increase in 150 years. 100,000% increase every 30 years. We are doubling every thirty years now, so we are growing 1,000 times slower. Overall, though, we have doubled x number of times. I’ll set it up:
    600 times 2^x = 6 billion.
    2^x = 10 million.
    ln 2^x = ln (10 million).
    x ln 2 = ln (10 million).
    x (number of doublings of zombies) = ln (10 million)/ln 2.
    What’s the answer? The answer is that the scientists picked 600 to go with 6 billion so you’d do this calculation. See what I did there? That’s “natural logarithm”, so you don’t have to raise anything to ridiculous powers.
    What else?
    Dear Scott,
    I have to keep my strength up since my wife is going to let me have her body. Yesterday she got back to her roots and made me pick up groceries. Jealous, she calls last night and laughingly tells me she’s collecting welfare that I have to pay back. She’s already taken the house. She’ll get child support come court time. And, this econmomy’s hit me pretty hard. She’s an immigrant. I don’t know how you call them immigrants, Jaego. We are not the same people any more, no matter how we look compared to each other. These are basuco freaks the result of processing nine hundred tons of cocaine in their home country each year.
    “Don’t forget my anniversary present!”

  235. seb November 18, 2009 at 9:06 am #

    I don’t know if I trust Anton LaVey.
    Actually, JHK was writing Geography as I was leaving my first family, by force, by force. I’m not your father’s deadbeat. My father had the money to undermine my fatherhood. My daughter graduated college, giving me a parting shot. I was on drugs in the ‘Nineties.
    The human, I’m sure Anton would agree, has the luxury of playing out in its mind the ramifications of falling prey. The government hasn’t put the masses to death in quite some time.
    I can’t go back to sleep. I picked up the library copy of Nowhere, and it was on this page (261):
    The need for an alternative everyday environment is particlarly acute out West, where population growth is projected to continue at high rates. The Sacramento area, for instance, is expected to gain 700,000 people in the next twenty years—a figure equal to the present population of San Francisco. Since there isn’t enough old abandoned urban fabric to redevelop, the future presents West Coasters with a stark choice: more sprawl or something better.
    unquote
    Let me just replenish the 1992 Kunstler by talking to “him” directly; I do that (Sure, Steve. I hear you saying that. Whatever makes you feel comfortable). No, here: You think I’m crazy. No. Notice in the ESP that I could theoretically be lying. I could have posted after reading this paragraph. But, the record will show that I am completely writing above in theme. It isn’t warped around this. I got mine from TV.
    Kunstler, I bet you’d like to know exactly how many of the 700,000 settled in Sacto as of 18/20 years. We can do that from here.
    He is talking to West Coasters, and, after exactly 29 more words, he’s going to say SAN DIEGO. He also says, SEB. I put those letters in bold. They’re in line in the book, like bedbug bites.
    Let me see if I’m a golem, to translate in this simple cave man’s own language.
    ruekh(???) plural rukhes(?????), gender m, disembodied spirit, ghost; devil
    tsu aldi rukhes damn it all
    a ruekh(???) in dayn tatns tatn arayn damn you
    oyfhengen oyf zikh dem ruekh(???) overadorn oneself
    rukhniyes(???????) gender f, pure spirit adjectival form with -dik, spiritual
    takes prefix b, spiritual
    lebn fun rukhniyes(???????) without visible means of support
    In Jewish folklore, a golem(????; English pronunciation: /??o?l?m/ GOH-l?m) is an animated being created entirely from inanimate matter. In modern Hebrew the word golem literally means “cocoon,” but can also mean “fool,” “silly,” or even “stupid.” The name appears to derive from the word gelem (???), which means “raw material.”[citation needed] Alternatively, some sources indicate that it is a corruption of the Hebrew go?al ‘enu (??????) our redeemer or our avenger. The most famous golem narrative involves Judah Loew ben Bezalel, the late 16th century chief rabbi of Prague.
    This is useless. It isn’t even stupid. It’s insane. You see what I did there? using ESP means that in your immediate vicinity is a spirit. You can’t even say ‘this is stupid’. You’ll be saying you are stupid. I call that spirit the Vic Cindy, for “vicinity”.

  236. dale November 18, 2009 at 10:32 am #

    I thought we were past this kind of thing Dale. I thought we were friends.
    ========================================
    Sure you do..(eyes rolling)…I don’t make friends with Nazi’s.

  237. dale November 18, 2009 at 10:52 am #

    As far as Tonglen goes, you are a topic. But, on this blog I am in my wrathful manifestation.

  238. Martin Hayes November 18, 2009 at 12:16 pm #

    Laura, I lived in Dubai, and I can assure you that it is every bit the environmental atrocity you say. One of my colleagues I knew during my several-year stay is married to an oceanographer whose remit was to file environment impact assessments to prospective developers. These were always comprehensively ignored.
    But, living there, you hardly need such insider information: it is plain to anyone who has eyes to see that it is an atrocity (your words). And, as you have so rightly pointed out, not everyone who is there, specifically the phenomenally hard-working and uncomplaining Indians who have built it, are complicit. Pakistanis, Bengalis, Sri Lankans, Phillipinos and Phillipinas, thorougly decent people, trying to make do.
    I should point out, though, that construction workers don’t usually live in tents: their housing is more typically made of breeze-block or, less commonly, timber prefab. But they are indeed housed well away from the urban centres, in stiflingly hot conditions, with minimal amenities, away from their families for years, and trapped by onerous contracts and the confiscation of their passports.
    If you haven’t yet read it, I recommend you read “Sand, fear, and money in Dubai”, written by the estimable Mike Davis. My kind of guy. Works as a trucker, and writes like a dream. The article is available in the ‘net, and forms part of an anthology or related articles on the kind of urban fabric that neo-liberalism has spawned. The book is “Evil Paradises: Dreamworlds of Neo-Liberalism”.

  239. Qshtik November 18, 2009 at 2:32 pm #

    Martin (and also Laura Louz…),
    I am sitting in an Apt/Hotel in Sharjah next door to Dubai as we speak. I’ve been here for two weeks as the guest of an Indian family I know. They have lived/worked here for nearly 30 years. They have to renew their work visas every 3 years.
    It is amazing how two people (you and me) can look through the eyes in our heads at the same scene and see two entirely different things (I don’t know if Laura has been to Dubai or if her remarks come from reading … otherwise I would say “how three people can look … etc”). When was it you lived here Martin?
    There are about 1.7M people in Dubai, 1M in Sharjah and 5M in the combined Emirates that make up the UAE. The vast majority of all these people are ex-pats and all of them are here of their own free will (I haven’t heard that anyone here is enslaved) because it provides them and their families a better life than they would otherwise have. No one is dying of thirst. The prefab structures that the construction workers live in are air conditioned. Outside my window, not 50 ft away another bldg is going up. I look down at the prefabs that house the workers and the office for the construction managers. No one has keeled over in the sandy rubble surrounding the site. The accomodations are not places you or I would want to live in but they are almost certainly better than what they left behind in India, Pakistan, etc … else why would they be here. Their food and accomodations are provided as part of their pay pkg. The money they get on payday is essentially the extra that they can send back to their families. I know this because my friend, Shailesh, is a Financial Controller for two firms. He has explained how things work here in Dubai/Sharjah. The area has been hit hard by the worldwide financial crisis (due to a lack of bank credit) and numerous semi-finished buildings are standing idle. They use the term “project delay” to put a nicer face on things. But they are in much better shape than the US or parts of Europe because when they “downsize” they simply terminate the individual in accordance with the original employment contract and send them back almost immediately to their home country. The employer pays for the one-way ticket. There are no armies of unemployed living in shacks and tents beneath bridges. In effect they export their unemployed back to where they came from so in a sense there is no unemployment problem in Dubai. Do you think that sounds cruel? I don’t. If you don’t want the job and can’t deal with the terms of the employment contract then stay home.
    I rode from one end to the other of their new Metro train system today. It is phenominal.
    People wait for modern buses in air-conditioned waiting rooms along the sides of the streets.
    There is no sense of my going on and on … what one’s eyes see boggles the mind. It is all built on top of a dry-as-bone desert and virtually every drop of water comes from desalinated Arabian Sea water (I spoke to an engineer involved in this process the other night during a wedding engagement party). It rains, briefly, 4 or 5 days a year.
    I will admit that one wonders how all this can sustain itself, especially since Dubai is not an oil state. It has only some natural gas and virtually no oil. Abu Dahbi is the state with the oil. Dubai’s thing is “business.” They import and export with no taxes. Before coming here I read the history of Dubai from mid-1700s to the present. It is a unique history. I’ve forgotten the exact title/author but will let you know after I get home in a few days. It is dry reading but I recommend it anyway. Jaego would probably be facinated because of the lengths the local nationals go to to maintain ethnic purity but even THEY are slowly losing the battle. Its only natural that they are losing that battle since they are overwhelmed by this huge ex-pat pop.
    I find this whole Dubai phenomenon to be a quite fascinating experiment in the world’s history and your harsh remarks – Martin and Laura – may yet prove to be offbase.

  240. Laura Louzader November 18, 2009 at 2:38 pm #

    SEB, I profoundly doubt that population growth in the western states will continue as projection. Remember, those projections are extrapolations based on the trend of the past 40 years, and they don not allow for DISCONTINUITY.
    The cities of the southwest are going to fail spectacularly, in fact already ARE failing. There just isn’t enough water and no way to get more out there even with current adequate fuel supplies. Trust me when I tell you that they will NOT get water from the Great Lakes, for the nine states and Canadian provinces that comprise the Great Lakes watershed have put into place one of the tightest water protection pacts in the U.S. We figure if we want sun, we can move to Arizona-if westerners want water, they can come back to Cleveland, Milwaukee, Chicago, and other Great Lakes cities, as well as midwestern and eastern cities on rivers, to get it.
    That is why I have faith in the “invisible hand”, which will work to make the arid west too expensive to maintain in the years ahead. People will just HAVE to come back east and resettle the depopulated towns and cities with their reliable water supplies and fertile, verdant hinterlands. We won’t be any longer able to pay for the Colorado River plumbing system, a gift of the American taxpayers, that made the mass emigration to the west possible to begin with.

  241. asia November 18, 2009 at 3:03 pm #

    Perhaps part of the ‘ cure’ is to know:
    SOMETHINGS HAPPENING MR JONES
    Funny you should mention KMD…just got some emails from him….I was noticing the incredible religious bias of the dreaded LATimes in its obituary column.
    Doesnt the LAT know some poeple are on to their disgusting biases?
    some days only jews get OBITS…one day recently there was only one very long obit..the fellow had ‘ done a movie on the holocaust’
    and:
    why are we bound by duty and dogma to do absolutely nothing about it?
    ITS THE POWER ELITES…READ JOHN BIRCH BOOKS LIKE ‘ POLAND BETRAYED’
    AND WHAT THE UN/CFR ARE REALLY ABOUT
    Ted kennedy claimed the 1965 imm act id bring in 5000…then one of those immigrants killed his brother!
    here we are 110 million later…3000/yr killed by illegals
    o and teddy also had a bill that failed…
    to let any and every caldean move here as a ‘religious refugee’

  242. asia November 18, 2009 at 3:06 pm #

    JIM:
    So for the first time in US history a state will lower the minimum wage. any comment?
    and hunger here is at an all time high…since its been recorded by the govt.

  243. Laura Louzader November 18, 2009 at 3:13 pm #

    I have read Mike Davis, and this guy is one of the most wonderful writers. I read excerpts from his book on Dubai, and I get much first-hand from people in my circle who have lived there or who own property (usually a small condo) there.
    One friend owns a condo he paid $200K, that swelled to $400K in bubble value, is now back at its old price or below. He imagined retiring there but is now thinking better of that because the place is very expensive to live in. And you DON’T run bills you can’t pay- this is still a Muslim country and you will go to jail for that.
    It’s difficult to imagine anything more wasteful of energy that a ski mountain in the middle of a desert that gets to 100 degrees regularly, or Hydroworld, the underwater hotel. How much fuel does it take to operate this Disneyland-cum-LasVegas science fiction fantasy, with features like that?
    I was told that construction workers imported from poor districts of Pakistan were being paid $200 a month and living in tents and other makeshift, shanty-style housing outside the city.
    If fuels deplete according to some of the more optimistic projections, that city could become pretty unworkable within 30 years.
    But it will make for some fascinating ruins, though possibly not much more than Las Vegas.

  244. asia November 18, 2009 at 3:23 pm #

    have you seen the email that circulates that shows pix of Dubai 30? years ago and now?
    the contrasts…..the island shaped like a palm tree?
    when someone sent me that…i cant get the photos to appear in this blog.
    like i say for a footprint it is the most carbon heavy…does any food grow there?
    i hear cheney and maybe rummie own mansions there and have? retired there or will.

  245. asia November 18, 2009 at 3:23 pm #

    have you seen the email that circulates that shows pix of Dubai 30? years ago and now?
    the contrasts…..the island shaped like a palm tree?
    when someone sent me that…i cant get the photos to appear in this blog.
    like i say for a footprint it is the most carbon heavy…does any food grow there?
    i hear cheney and maybe rummie own mansions there and have? retired there or will.

  246. asia November 18, 2009 at 3:26 pm #

    Rupperts new movies out..a friend saw last nite and says
    ‘MR says society will collapse in 1 to 2 years’? i dunno……….
    Michael Ruppert The Collapse Trailer : The Whole Economy is a …1 post – 1 author – Last post: 3 days ago
    The investigative journalist Michael Rupert’s new movie called Collapse is a great watch for you all conspiracy nuts out there LOL Grin …
    forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=144422.0 – Cached
    YouTube – Economic Collapse Mike Ruppert Collapse Movie TrailerNov 5, 2009 … Economic Collapse Mike Ruppert Movie [Collapse] Trailer In Theatres Friday November 6th! … Mike Rupert breaks down the government drug trade. 176 views … Collapse – New Official Trailer

  247. budizwiser November 18, 2009 at 3:35 pm #

    The “new normal” is an ever-increasing crescendo of mindless contradictory “news” blather designed to drown out any attempt to understand and illuminate the remarkable contradictions of our so-called democratic political system.
    This is not a good thing. Its next to impossible to get a fact-based perspective of any news event.
    I guess it will get crazier before the next elections. I know every generation always thinks that their particular point in history is special.
    But somehow, I think we may live long enough to see some proof of PO etc…

  248. DeeJones November 18, 2009 at 4:12 pm #

    Laura: As for water wars, Calif is gearing up.
    The Governator (& wife Skelator), and SoCal interests are once again reviving the Peripheral canal, or the Delta bypass, or whatever they want to call it now, but its basically a water grab to send Norcal water to the desert of Socal (desert in so many ways). But hey, with climate change, there will be less water in Norcal land, so that means either we keep our water here, or if Socal gets thier way, we will have less water so the movie moguls can keep thier pools filled.
    I say let Socal turn back into a desert.

  249. asia November 18, 2009 at 4:19 pm #

    you are brash arent you?
    ‘one word about the incredible level of Musim Crime and you go straight to jail.’
    can you cite proof?
    i know a mellow swede who says rotterdam is NUTS with crime.. ..since hes lived or visited he should know…
    HAS ANYONE SEEN THE FILM ‘ COLLAPSE’?

  250. abbeysbooks November 18, 2009 at 6:45 pm #

    The “new normal” is an ever-increasing crescendo of mindless contradictory “news” blather designed to drown out any attempt to understand and illuminate the remarkable contradictions of our so-called democratic political system.
    This is exactly what Foucault spent his entire academic life researching and writing and talking about. He has it nailed.
    Power and knowledge are in an meshed grid which controls our bodies in minute ways we don’t even notice. We have been turned into objects to provide bio-power in this fashion. there is a great discussion going on over at huff po by Andrew Weill on depression. Of course the same thing is true on that subject.
    And everything else. There are precious few private areas that are not invisibly controlled in this way. And of course the dominating discourse controls this site as well including JHK’s Monday posts.

  251. abbeysbooks November 18, 2009 at 6:54 pm #

    What has allowed JHK to see is his painting. His eyes have learned to see aesthetically, which is also to see the shoddy and the ugly. since his painting is genre, (and it is improving)he has taken a good long slow look at a lot of things.
    His preference is natural landscape at the moment I think, but he has done some very good ones on McDonald’s etc. Still life in urban landscape that records our time.
    So in seeing more and better he is able to describe in detail what he is seeing. He notices. Just like someone hears or listens well. JHK is listening to landscapes and composing commentaries in his head. And this is why he is communicating to masses of people about our dire straits. No pun intended.

  252. Laura Louzader November 18, 2009 at 7:06 pm #

    Dee, my sympathies in your struggle to hold on to your native water supply. Our mayor is trying to find a way to sell off our precious water works, something I would like to head off if possible.
    Anyone who lives in an area with a good water supply should get busy NOW to protect it from encroachment, lest you find your water delivery system privatized, and shipped to places like Las Vegas and Phoenix.
    The only way people in this country will ever adopt sustainable lifestyles in places fit for human habitation is if the taxpayers at large stop enabling our governments federal and local from using our taxes to sustain the unsustainable. The money being siphoned out of the verdant, moist cities and towns of the eastern half of the country, and the Pacific northwest (which includes Northern CA) in order to water golf courses in the desert and enable cities with 5 million people to function in such a place to begin with, along with the billions being spent on our ridiculously overbuilt interstate highway system and our Oil Protection Service (i.e. the United States military), could instead be used to build the railroads, nuclear power plants utilizing more advanced nuclear technologies, and electrical grid we will need to stay minimally functional over the next few decades.
    The best way to shift the spending from unsustainable megaprojects back to sustainable cities and industries is to Make The User Pay- let the inhabitants of these places pay out of their own pockets the cost of building and maintaining the dozens of megadams out west, and let motorists pay tolls on the interstates necessary to maintain this crap. If the road doesn’t pay for itself, close it up. If people in the desert don’t want to live a lifestyle appropriate for such a place or pay the water rates that would pay for a new dam, or to maintain old ones to reasonable safety standards, well, then let them pay to take the thing down.
    Asoka, are you reading? Please help out here and throw in with me to get a referendum up to keep Daley from selling our water works here in Chicago!It will take a lot of work to get it on a referendum- like about 122,000 signatures of registered voters within 90 days of declaring. But we would have the Chicago police, who also hate Daley, on our side.

  253. Martin Hayes November 18, 2009 at 7:07 pm #

    Laura, if construction workers are indeed living in tents, I stand corrected. Since I was just another cappuccino-sipping white-collar worker bee housed in an oversized apartment who seldom ventured out of the city precinct, I can hardly gainsay your information.
    As to madcap energy waste, consider, if you don’t know, the project that has now been put on hold because of the downturn to refrigerate a stretch of beach frequented by tourists. Envisaged was to put ducts under the sands carrying chilled liquid.
    I thank Qshtik for his lengthy and thoughtful reply, but I suspect you understand better that Dubai is the worst possible place to be if you are mindful of the fate of the Earth. Such Pharaonic projects and hubristic greed, under the pitiless sun of a heating planet, just made me grieve. My boss and I used to joke about Shelley’s poem Ozymandias. Looking back, I don’t think it’s such a joke. The downturn has revealed Dubai’s terrible vulnerability.

  254. abbeysbooks November 18, 2009 at 7:11 pm #

    The civilizations die because the barbarians are employed by the empire and taught new tricks with new weapons.
    How about looking at it this way? We are educating (sending to school and university) more and more non whites. They are going to be the new intellectuals. They are going to continue the hold of power and knowledge on our very selves. They will not ask questions that put that paradigm in question or lead to its demise.
    Nossir. They are too glad to be at the table.

  255. Martin Hayes November 18, 2009 at 8:02 pm #

    Qshtik, perhaps we do look at the world through very different eyes. I’ll treat your question about employment contracts as though it weren’t rhetorical, and say simply that all employment contracts, which are usually onerously one-sided, are always effectively signed under duress, because you can’t have the job unless you sign one. So much for the idea, popular in certain circles, that employment is a business relationship. I think “abduction into a totalitarian organisation” fits better, and Dubai is nothing if not totalitarian.
    I’m amazed that you can blithely mention that Dubai’s water is desalinated water drawn from the Gulf as though this fact is not a horror story in itself. It should give you pause. Dubai is an artificial counter-entropic experiment that exists solely to service globalisation, an already failed experiment.
    In the not-too-distant future, the city will empty out and revert to an uninhabitable wasteland. Look closer at those ubiquitous pictures of Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum. Notice the troubled eyes. Do you not see what I see? I think he looks completely mad, and maybe he is.

  256. asoka November 18, 2009 at 8:51 pm #

    Laura said: “Asoka, are you reading?”
    Yes, and I have written replies to you, but if I write more than a paragraph I get a message saying my post is being held for “approval” and my post never gets posted. Apparently I am being censored.

  257. Laura Louzader November 18, 2009 at 9:08 pm #

    Asoka, come over to my site then, at http://thenorthcoast.blogspot.com, and write what you please.

  258. messianicdruid November 18, 2009 at 9:25 pm #

    “Apparently I am being censored.”
    or is it “denormalized”?
    “Those who remain politically involved have internalized politics as ideological warfare… For the common people, ideological adherence can only be demonstrated by zeal. And in their zeal, which is really unarticulated frustration at their powerlessness, the people start to cannibalize one another…”
    http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2009/11/-shoot-the-fat-guys.html

  259. Dr Doom November 18, 2009 at 9:56 pm #

    asoka,
    If you’re being censored, it’s probably one of Jim’s minions, like Duncan Crary, as Jim would neither have the time nor the inclination to censor commentors! (Unless it’s Fe Fe, of course, or Johnny Rico)
    Hey, nice post this week Jim! I’ve always liked yeast, especially in bread baking and beer brewing—just saying!

  260. Dr Doom November 18, 2009 at 9:58 pm #

    asoka,
    If you’re being censored, it’s probably one of Jim’s minions, like Duncan Crary, as Jim would neither have the time nor the inclination to censor commentors! (Unless it’s Fe Fe, of course, or Rohnny Jico)
    Hey, nice post this week Jim! I’ve always liked yeast, especially in bread baking and beer brewing—just saying!

  261. Jaego Scorzne November 18, 2009 at 11:37 pm #

    You are often (like now) too vague, I don’t know who you mean by “it’s their country”. I’ll try though: a Country is not a geography-the “Native Americans” were not the first Americans-the English were. A fictional example: if you exchanged the Countries of the Haitains and the Norwegians sending all the Norwegians to Haiti and all the Haitians to Norway. Haiti would be the new Norway. And they would turn that eco-devasted land into a paradise in two generations. Norway would become the new Haiti-they would all freeze or starve to death within two years.
    When I said “send them packing”-I meant mostly the new immigrants-particularly the Central Americans and Mexicans, by far the most dangerous groups among the new. As for the Blacks and Indians-yeah ok, White Man’s Burden stuff. We need to make a place for the Blacks apart from us. Is this harsh? You bet-nation building is and staving off destruction maybe even more so. But no harsher than Moses was-or Ezra centuries later. People blame the fall of the West on Christian softness and they’re right. Because the New Testment teachings say nothing about fertility, ethnic purity, borders, property, rights, self defence…They cannot stand alone, yet that is what Christians seem to want to do-as you well know. They just use the Old Testament selectively to bolster their sweetness and lite religion.
    As the Sufis say, “Jesus taught the way to the other World, Mohammad taught the way in both Worlds.” That may not be true-we don’t know what Chirst thought about alot of things. He did say, I came not to abolish the Law, but to fufill it. So maybe all the Old Testament is still valid. I’d love to know what Jesus thought about everything. John says his words and deeds would have filled countless volumes. So-why didn’t anyone think to fill some? Don’t you want more? We have far more of the Teachings of Mohammad and Buddha than we do for Christ. A great pity.
    I think Higher Morality is great-as long as it’s not unilateral. And looking around the world, I only see Whites trying to help other people. And even there, there are often big string attached. So I’m all for charity-once we have secured our survival. And obviously so very powerful groups are using our Christain Charity against us. We need some eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth right about now.

  262. Jaego Scorzne November 19, 2009 at 1:49 am #

    Ah Sizemore I didn’t recognize you! Why didn’t we talk about this before? Did your name change give you Dutch Courage? Read my post again-the reason why it’s important is there. Keep reading it until you get it. You have the attention span of a gnat.

  263. Jaego Scorzne November 19, 2009 at 3:07 am #

    Shall the Swarthy Men feast then in the White Tower? I say no-we’ll throw it down first. Close the Sluices and let them drink oil-or blood.
    Now you speak like a true daughter of Zeus, an Athena, an Oriana. And what name could be more beautiful than Oriana…Aur-Could it mean Light?

  264. messianicdruid November 19, 2009 at 7:33 am #

    “You are often (like now) too vague, I don’t know who you mean by “it’s their country”.”
    I must avoid placing a stumbling block before the blind. If people don’t want to know…
    There isn’t time to give you a decent answer until after the weekend. Check back.
    If we mimic the self-chosen our acts will prove dectructive of peace. Leaven of Herod, remember?

  265. Qshtik November 19, 2009 at 7:53 am #

    Martin, Laura and SEB,
    Let me tell you what I learned today: My friend, Shailesh took me to one of the two companies of which he is the Financial Controller. I was introduced to all the office people from the Director on down. Engineers, Procurement, Estimation, etc. Even to the receptionist who is the only arab (local national) … a women wearing the whole black getup with only her face showing. The company name is NITCO. Their two main products are (1) prefab “accomodation” (i.e. housing) units and office units that can be brought to construction sites and used to house workers or as offices for the people running the construction project. They are currently filling a large order for units to be used in Oman in the Oil fields. During the first gulf war they supplied America, Britain, the United Nations, etc. with prefab housing units in Iraq and Kuwait. I was given a grand tour of the whole process of building these units. Fascinating. (2) Large fiberglass tanks for holding water or chemicals that are installed on buildings. Again, got a grand tour with the engineer in charge of this product line. I asked a million questions. OK, maybe only a thousand questions … all for yours, Laura’s and SEB’s benefit. By law – strictly, enforced ALL accomodations must be air conditioned. No one may work outside between 12 noon and 3 PM during 3 summer months of July – Sept. Workers must be given regular periodic breaks (each hour, I believe) and they are provided with water, juices, glucose, salt tablets. They are inspected regularly and rigorously. Infractions result in fines (the word for fine spelled phonetically is “Moo kahl fa” … accent on the second syllable). The average pay in the fiberglass prod area is 1600 AED (dirhams) per month. One AED = $0.274. In addition to pay they are provided all their meals cooked for them and set up buffet style as well as their accomodations.
    I enjoyed my conversation with the Director of this company because he was very intelligent and spoke better English than the others so it was not as much of a struggle for me to read lips and interpret. My hearing sucks and Indians frequently accent he wrong syllable as in “com peh TEE tor” instead of “com PEH teh tor” not to mention the whole W vs V mix up. This gentleman has been working in Dubai/Sharjah for 34 years. He is Indian but lived in Canada before coming to Dubai. His daughter and son-in-law are professors at Viginia Tech. I asked him many questions about issues raised by you and Laura (I told him about our conversation on the blog) such as do you feel this whole Dubai experiment is a colossal and uncontionable (sp?) use/waste of the earth’s resources. He said he had considered that question and could only say for certain that the speed of the development was much too fast and that he worried about the potential for collapse. In no way, however, was he certain that it would all collapse.
    The people I met appeared to be happy. The workers appeared reasonably content and hard working. No one appeared to be goofing off and no one was standing over them with a whip.
    I have to run now but if I think of more to say I’ll do it in a future comment. I have info re SEB’s question about finding a job here but I’ll have to get back to it later.

  266. messianicdruid November 19, 2009 at 9:16 am #

    “So maybe all the Old Testament is still valid.”
    The covenant was replaced with a better one, both are based on the law of God. We must differentiate between the law and the covenant {testament}. Most of the church is still making this error, I was blinded for decades. Until the church repents of it’s lawlessness {1John 3:4}things will not improve.
    For your consideration, over the weekend:
    http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/weblog/WebPosting.cfm?LogID=1795

  267. JACKBO November 19, 2009 at 1:09 pm #

    Three cheers for Laura Louzader, who put it more elegantly than I ever could – or would.
    After all the self-styled “elitists” weighed in, how refreshing to hear from someone with REAL class!
    BRAVO !!!
    We truly do inhabit a delusional culture. At one extreme, some people so starved of self-respect that they actually refer to THEMSELVES as “niggers,” or “rednecks”, or some other such insulting slur…and then there are some middling folk with no real influence who actually fancy themselves part of an “elite” of some kind, and you have to wonder, on the basis of WHAT? To elaborate an observation first made by The Wizard of Oz, these people have no more wealth or power than the rest of the proles, but they do have one thing the others lack ; a nicely-lettered sheet of stiff high-grade paper which certifies them officaly as Educated Persons. I have several of these myself, so I’m not speaking here out of envy. I simply dont flatter myself that I belong to a higher species.
    It’s always characteristic of any group in the middle that they resent those higher up in the social hierarchy, and despise those further down. So we get railings against the depredations of the Rich and Powerful in almost the same breath as sneers and jeers at the expense of the “yahoos”. Coming from folks in that strata of society which I call The Powerless Educated. Which is where I also live.
    It never surprises me to encounter Old Hippies who have mutated into Tory Curmudgeons. It really isnt that much of a leap. Most of these people entertained elitist notions about themselves from the very beginning. over the years, Life has kicked all the sophormoric nonsense about Love&Peace, “revolution”, and the Beneficial Effects of Drugs out of them, ’til now all that’s left is the elitism. It doesnt matter much whether they now call themselves Liberals, or Neocons, or Libertarians (or UNItarians, or ROtarians, or Rosicrucians), they all belong to the same inbred club.
    I can abide Mr Kunstler himself, because I fear he is right about resource depletion (and a few other things), and because i WANT to believe that, at least in his better moments, he actually cares about what happens to his country and it’s citizens. in my judgement, his periodic lapses into elitish-sounding cant only serve to get in the way of his message. Apart from that, he is at any rate an original. The same cant be said for the more uncritical of his correspondents. These online sycophants cant even muster up a style of their own! They simply field Kunstler’s pet phrases and patented expressions, and swat them back at him like so many tennis balls.
    And finally, if a friend of mine came around and started going on to me about “yeast people”, I’m afraid I’d have to ask him to leave ; for HIS sake. I’m not a fan of motor sports, but I do believe I’d prefer to hang out with a Nascar Moron than somebody like that.

  268. Captainchaos November 19, 2009 at 2:59 pm #

    “why are we bound by duty and dogma to do absolutely nothing about it?”
    I think those constraints absolutely bind White liberals from taking the appropriate actions that self-defense and self-interest entail. In the thread previous to this I recall one woman cooing with typical, middle-aged, bourgeois, bovine liberal stupidity at the fact that this is a “nation of immigrants,” that is says so on the Statue of Liberty, and that THEREFORE we cannot break with that sacrosanct tradition. Leave aside the fact the myth of the proposition nation we are inculcated to is just that, myth, and that there never was an America that was not self-consciously historically conceived as a White man’s country; leave aside the fact that the father of multiculturalism, Horace Kallen, and the man, who wrote the play – The Melting Pot – from which the quote, appears on the Statue of Liberty, Israel Zangwill, were both Zionists (meaning they supported the right of their own people to a homeland); leaving all that aside, that woman’s faith in the civic religion, if her will in accordance with that, were carried to fruition in the world, it would mean ruin for us all. It is not only imbecility, it is insanity. These people do not live in the real world, where ugly and horrible things are just that, yet none the less true for it. These people, refuse to face life as it is. And ultimately, if tenderminded principle must come before life itself for them, are no lovers of life.

  269. Captainchaos November 19, 2009 at 3:17 pm #

    Recalling another comment from the previous thread: One gentleman remarked that “we” would NEVER cede any territory to White Nationalists. I’ve seen anti-racists proclaim that even in Brazil, their task is not done, as there is still “discrimination” as manifested in ethnic inequalities in wealth and inclusion in high status milieus. They wish to give all Western countries a demographic profile resembling Brazil. The take home point: it will never be enough, there is no upper limit to how much we are to give away in atoning for Europe Man’s Original Sins of racism, sexism, xenophobia, homophobia and anti-Semitism. There is no upper limit, even unto giving away our very being – our genetic constitution. That is because, we are not dealing with rational transactions of reciprocity hear, but in the exorcism of demons. I tell you now, the life of our people is infinitely more valuable than that man’s squalid little faithism. He seems to think we would be asking his permission, he should think again.

  270. Miss Gayle November 19, 2009 at 4:58 pm #

    Don’t worry. My husband turns sixty next summer and I’m no spring chicken myself. We have four children, so I’m not into population reduction of my race/religion, either. My people are a tiny fraction of the earth’s population. Let some other over-represented group reduce their population instead.
    The point, however, is that the baby boomers are the largest voting block ever in this country and by the time they are not, it will already be all over but the shouting.
    Did you ever wonder, though, why the west not only makes mere token protests over the baby-killing (born and unborn), forced sterilization and other complete abrogation of women’s right to choose, and instead actually round-a-boutly provides funding for china’s programs? You would think the women’s groups would be howling their heads off that the state gets to decide for a woman about her body. But no, not a peep. Why?
    Because TPTB in the west wanted to see if it would work. They know now it doesn’t work particularly well at all – as I said, you only get a reduction of tax-paying wage-generating earners and a plethora of people who need transfer payments of some type or another. They have practically emptied the countryside of young people and still don’t have enough workers earning wages.
    So naturally TPTB will try the other end – if they can. But the Boomers outvote them by a considerable margin, and aren’t going to give up the cushiest old age ever known since the dawn of man, much less volunteer to die for the good of society or humanity. Flower child pasts notwithstanding, when push comes to shove, the Boomers aren’t really that into the good of society.
    Now, if TPTB decide to bypass the democratic process, then you may have a problem.

  271. asia November 19, 2009 at 4:58 pm #

    way hotter…not death valley but hotttt
    and
    WERE YOU ………………….TROTKSKY CATBOX
    its OK either way…long as its the truth
    can ya ask yr relatives in denver if they were/ are with
    shambala center?

  272. Miss Gayle November 19, 2009 at 4:59 pm #

    Don’t worry. My husband turns sixty next summer and I’m no spring chicken myself. We have four children, so I’m not into population reduction of my race/religion, either. My people are a tiny fraction of the earth’s population. Let some other over-represented group reduce their population instead.
    The point, however, is that the baby boomers are the largest voting block ever in this country and by the time they are not, it will already be all over but the shouting.
    Did you ever wonder, though, why the west not only makes mere token protests over the baby-killing (born and unborn), forced sterilization and other complete abrogation of women’s right to choose, and instead actually round-a-boutly provides funding for china’s programs? You would think the women’s groups would be howling their heads off that the state gets to decide for a woman about her body. But no, not a peep. Why?
    Because TPTB in the west wanted to see if it would work. They know now it doesn’t work particularly well at all – as I said, you only get a reduction of tax-paying wage-generating earners and a plethora of people who need transfer payments of some type or another. They have practically emptied the countryside of young people and still don’t have enough workers earning wages.
    So naturally TPTB will try the other end – if they can. But the Boomers outvote them by a considerable margin, and aren’t going to give up the cushiest old age ever known since the dawn of man, much less volunteer to die for the good of society or humanity. Flower child pasts notwithstanding, when push comes to shove, the Boomers aren’t really that into the good of society.
    Now, if TPTB decide to bypass the democratic process, then you may have a problem.

  273. asia November 19, 2009 at 5:03 pm #

    you may be new here? welcome
    fear not the crys of ‘ retard and racist’ that get bantered here by some if you think outside their box
    it was Js who asked
    ‘how many us soldiers died in WW2’……dunno
    ‘ how many jews died in ww2’ THAT I KNEW
    he also groused about the absurd crap of emma lazarus on the SOL
    so i learned a few things from JS…facts
    the college i go to is scary
    doubt it?
    check its website
    smc.edu
    a frontrunner in the NEW WORLD ORDER
    MAYBE ILL POST SOME OF ITS SHIT

  274. asia November 19, 2009 at 5:14 pm #

    you stand at the bow of the new titanic yet refuse to smile
    Pres CHUI TSANG…pres of my school wouldnt like that!
    heres some ‘ profiles in de racination’…from…smc.edu
    Remember this is a school with 1000? 2000? Illegals
    And no requirements for citizen ship…but requirements for …hahahahah
    Global citizenship to get a degree
    Nikita Volchetskiy
    Economics
    “My grandmother was completely right: SMC is the very best college, and I think the teachers here are very polite and understanding of all of us from other countries.”
    From the freezing cold of Minsk, Belarus, to the seething tropics of the Dominican Republic. Then onward to California, and finally to SMC. The voyage of Nikita Volchetskiy has been an improbable one and, at times, a dangerous one. “I left home when I was 16 and—it’s a very long story—but my family had to leave,” says Nikita about some dark times that he’d just as soon forget. “But the family just decided that we’d all stay together, no matter what. And we finally came to LA, just because my grandmother was living here.”
    Heynner misses his family and the culture in Guatemala, but he’s determined to make the most of his American experience. “I plan to transfer to either Cal State San Luis Obispo or UCLA, to become an architect.
    Manuel, born in Oaxaca, has adapted completely to America, and reports that SMC has been absolutely supportive in helping him make the transition to a new country. “I really love being here. And I’ll hopefully be spending the next two or three years at SMC, and then transferring to UCLA or a Cal State campus. What I plan on is getting my Bachelor’s in Business, and then going back to Oaxaca, and opening up a hotel there, or maybe
    Joey Thompson
    Russian/Music/Dance
    “It’s great to be a citizen of the world and have that kind of outlook, as opposed to just saying, ‘Hi. I’m an American. And I don’t really care about what’s going on anywhere else.’”
    He’s actually enrolled at SMC under a slightly different name. But it’s not because he wants to be a ‘man of mystery.’ “Nah, it’s just because I really didn’t feel like honoring my Texas heritage at all,” he says with a laugh. And Joey is about as far away from the stereotypical red-white-and-blue, hell-bent-for-leather attitude of Texas as you can possibly imagine. “I’m fluent in Spanish, and I’ve also studied Chinese. Now I’m studying Russian with Nancy Loncke, and she is so very passionate about what she teaches. She makes it all very interactive; more like a game, really. And she’s just an incredible teacher.”
    Joey says, “Travel and learning about other cultures is, I think, the best way to get the most out of my life.” To that end, Joey is amassing skills that should provide him with his global ‘ticket to ride.’ “I just love traveling and—hey!—even my girlfriend lived in China for nine years! And the variety of classes I can get through SMC is really going to help me connect with the world. I’m studying both classical and flamenco guitar, and I’m also taking a fantastic flamenco dance class with Carla Luna. And then, there’s SMC’s location. I have a two-hour break that I’ve made for myself, and I can just go down to the beach and relax.”
    Dancing flamenco, playing Bach concertos, speaking Russian to Chinese farmers. ‘Joey’ is a fascinating study in where the roads might lead from SMC.
    Okay. Her last name is long enough to disappear over the horizon, like railroad tracks. But Diana Wattanapongsakorn is actually amused by it. “It did take me quite a while to learn how to spell it,” she says with a laugh. “But now I get to watch other people struggle with it, which can be really funny.” Her name is certainly a bit more common in her native Thailand, from where she launched out on her immigrant journey

  275. abbeysbooks November 19, 2009 at 6:09 pm #

    These students sound so much better than most american students that maybe the Whites should move over. The Whites where I live would have to anyway, they are so lumpen.

  276. asia November 19, 2009 at 7:59 pm #

    Honeeee
    you believe a press relaese?
    one student said they took his picture and ‘made stuff up’
    lumpen whites? now you quote franz fanon????
    AND THE ILLEGALS ARE EDUCATED ON TAXPAYERS MONEY
    i agree with what Js said about ‘cockholded’

  277. asia November 19, 2009 at 8:04 pm #

    could it be becasue our goods are made in china, vietnam, saipan?
    remember china was brought into the UN and Taiwan kicked out…i believe while Mao was in power…and he killed 70 million so that tells me what i need to know about the UN!

  278. asia November 19, 2009 at 8:08 pm #

    could it be becasue our goods are made in china, vietnam, saipan?
    remember china was brought into the UN and Taiwan kicked out…i believe while Mao was in power…and he killed 70 million so that tells me what i need to know about the UN!

  279. asia November 19, 2009 at 8:10 pm #

    from fireandreamitchell.com
    Forget the Stupak amendment soon to be ripped out of the PelosiCARE bill, how about you paying a monthly fee for people can have abortions?
    The Harry Reid Senate healthcare bill that was released last night which is a whopping 2,074 pages long would levy a new “abortion premium” fee on Americans in the government-run plan according to John Boehner’s blog.

  280. Laura Louzader November 19, 2009 at 10:30 pm #

    An “abortion premium” huh? How about a baby premium?
    An 1st trimester termination costs about $400 in most locations while the cost of delivering a baby, single birth, is about $12000 and up, and increases geometrically with multiple births.
    If this passes, we will see premiums for overweight, for smokers, for people with dangerous occupations.

  281. Headless November 19, 2009 at 11:14 pm #

    Laura Louzader,
    Love your passion; wish I knew you!
    As harsh as your comments toward Jim were (in the post I read near the top), it seems you’re both in the same mental resting place, just responding from different levels of (compassionate) frustration over the inevitable outcome. I credit you for your worthy disbelief in Jim’s apparent belief in some sort of orderly collapse, as it–to me–seems the wanna-be realist’s analogue of the ignoramous’ gleeful momentum…

  282. Jaego Scorzne November 20, 2009 at 2:13 am #

    Dale is praying for me, not in spite of his hatred for me, but because of it. Saintly? No, he’s doing it for his own advancement. Is this guy schmart or what?! He’s my fucking hero.

  283. Jaego Scorzne November 20, 2009 at 2:52 am #

    Dale is praying for me, not in spite of his hatred for me, but because of it. Saintly? No, he’s doing it for his own advancement. Is this guy schmart or what?! He’s my fucking hero.

  284. Jaego Scorzne November 20, 2009 at 3:08 am #

    I’m brash but I’m not rash. I morbid but not morose. To put it simply, I’m one of the Terrible Simplifiers whose coming was fortold. Men didn’t act when they could have in a timely intelligent fashion. So now they must act-or die. Our job is to make things simple for them-put things in the simplest possible terms. I’m capable of complexity, but what’s the point if people can’t understand even the basics anymore?
    Something is Rotten in the State of Denmark. Five percent of the population is Muslim but they use 40 percent of the social services budget. Is that sustainable? Luckily they are starting to get it unlike their idiot cousings to the North. For more about their Stalinism read GatesofVienna.com and Fjordman.com

  285. seb November 20, 2009 at 12:10 pm #

    quote
    I’m brash but I’m not rash. I’m morbid but not morose. To put it simply, I’m one of the Terrible Simplifiers whose coming was foretold.
    unquote
    No more “nazi”, “rascist”, or “fascist” for this guy. Here’s the deal: The title of this week’s post by James Howard is, The Fate of, This doesn’t say “destiny”. This says fate. Cooperate. That means death. That means being run over. people who read blogs are not going to agree, read, learn, or tolerate opinions. They may translate. They may have to, because anything we Yeasters say is going to be in the vernacular. It won’t even be systematic. But, look at ’em. Can they translate? They can’t translate like a computer can translate. What would they do? they’d oppose, like melon-headed fools. In fact, I am the last and greatest fool. when the housing market ran out of greater fools, I had a house. These words are not right because they are not English. At least allow us that. If the taxers have their way, we’ll be like the people of France, as poor as snakes.
    I’m reading a book on Fries Rebellion. I couldn’t find one on the Whiskey. The Stamp Act figures in. last week I was querying a Muslim professor as to the list of all genocides. I started the list of all post-revolutionary rebellions and pogroms and repression with France’s. I liked how they cut heads off, or, I thought I did. This guy, 57, said, Non. It seems it wasn’t so good even after that, finally culminating in Napoleon, and people hated Napoleon. Of course, he probably kills them. I have to read about it.
    I read about Fries, and the rebels or tax protesters said they were patriots. I don’t want to do that. I say I am a criminal. It’s simpler. I can occupy a niche.
    Notice Kunstler permits me to type. That’s because he has assumed the role of chronicler. Journalists do not make the news; they report on it. He says, “onerous”, about maybe draconian new laws. He also says, “Maybe after TSHTF we’ll be happier.”
    I have a blog:
    http://sbillinghurst.wordpress.com
    But, my readers do not want me to post political views, just how to make meth.
    One of my newer thoughts is that if the trafficantes had to barter for cocaine, they wouldn’t be able to deal it. This paper money is the source of corruption. Fries rebellion was tantamount to a resistance to a kind of murder carried out by elites. well, I wanted to get that in there. I won’t say it Annie Moore.
    These people also believed that they were the people mentioned at the outset in the Constitution, that they had power, and so forth. One early president even says, “The government has to ask the people, the people don’t have to ask the government shit.” So, what happens is, …happening? Anyhow, following that logic, and being able to be gaffled up easily by the gendarmes, they were saying that they had a right.
    We’re not saying that. “Whatever you say we are we are, and we are very proud of ourselves.” —Jefferson Starship, Volunteers.
    If there’s fate in the offing (and, I just read Nouriel Roubini, Say, what are some good blogs?).
    Oh yeah. I did goof. You have to read the best writing on a given subject, not slavishly follow a given writer’s tripe on every blessed subject under the sun, Abbeysbooks. That’s elitist.
    The elites are prescient, aren’t they? They seem to know every turn whereby the herd (I was dumbfounded a minute ago. I thought my wife had every coffee cup in the dishwater. I found one under some suds. The dishwasher’s there to limit my internet.) is poleaxed into slavery as the preferred alternative to death by starvation. We had houses, see? Those are foreclosed upon, then rented back to us at usurious rates. That’s what happens then, in Pennsylvania or wherever it was.
    So, I want a post entitled, “Rebellion”, so you know what it’s about, and I’ll be JHK’s keeper. I’ll keep him honest and trim. I also want to read things by Moe, too; not just James Howard, and listen to Larry Fine strangling, and drink beer at 32 degrees and die flassed.
    god-dammit, was wavelength was I writing on? CIA, please, as a targeted individual, could you turn down the positronic gain on that mind ray?
    Okay, what I was doing, was, I was scientific. In this way I can skip the gaps in the dialectic, and pick it back up again. it seems that much of our trial law and civil law and family law are holdovers from these rebellions and other civil-rights-chilling events. And, we need to point at where what we are talking about is just flat-out ridiculous. It’s going to be, see? We don’t have the world the way it was given to us. I’m 57. How old is my kid? Why? I mean given to us in 1776. The other book was to thick to bring: Alien and Sedition Acts. Carl Sagan already has a piece of that one. He thinks it was to deny emigration to radical thinkers.
    Just so you don’t (know?) I’m a blowhard—ooh ah ahhh—Camelbert, I’ll equip you for the onslaught of Sarah Palin (and, I was laughing because this is a solid internet connection. I can post all this).
    Sarah Palin has a lock of hair which falls over her face. Therefore, she’s on drugs. These will be the same kind as Rush Limbaugh. They’ll be consumed as painkillers or sleep aids. BTW, we are tired of referencing Adolf Hitler as a house painter. If we had him to kick around anymore, we could easily slip ‘painkiller’ in where ‘painter’ goes, and have him on drugs, too. SP should take larger and larger pharmaceutical caps until they are as big as a summer sausage. They should have a pink-and-clear lid and contain white, red and green …(What do they call those grains? They were in Contac). I want to see one halfway in her smiling mouth like a dick, but I can’t draw.
    Sarah Palin owes her existence to Anna Nicole Smith. Jayne Mansfield wasn’t decapitated in a car wreck, was she? Oh, yeah, she was. She woulda got an honorary PhD. I mean, all ever since from Marylin Monroe Sanchez they got bigger and bigger, like Mars Attacks. Sarah Palin did not have to write a book. I’m sure she’s in Valley of the Dolls. The hugeness of the epitome of American womanhood raised the bottom, too, thus allowing for the emergence of a personality so vile as to be walking the Earth to our endless amazement. “A rising tide lifts all boats”, is the phrase I believe I want.
    I wisht I had not said so much about my plans going forward. I want to subtitle the thing, “Criss-Cross”, but, what does that mean? It’s under “Rebellion”. it means if we all hate a class of people, and each of us hates certain individuals in that class, then I can kill one for you, and you can kill one for me, and we will get clean away.
    Jaego, wake up and sign on. I’m not doing publicity balling for you any more.

  286. seb November 20, 2009 at 12:44 pm #

    Here’s wuhtcha say:
    good of society.
    Now, if TPTB decide to bypass the democratic process, then you may have a problem.
    unquote
    The sentence structure if…..decide to….then…
    that acts like it hasn’t happened yet.
    Wrong. But, you are living in a present where rights have been taken from the men and given to the women, but that only enriches lawyers since the men get higher wages. You are, of course, happy with the liberating effects of this anticonstitutional movement and exult in it, while threatening worse, to your deteriment.
    Who can argue against someone who says it is for the good of the children and caps off their speech with a half a bottle of Niquil?
    I have been removed from my home and am home now, because the TRO is given to one but is acting on a pair. I have to pay $1,300 to maintain a separate residence while my spouse collects $500 in AFDC that I have to repay. I was sentenced to stay away ex parte, no due process (That is, no evidence). I was arrested because the cops came, babe. Because the cops came. The judge can only do this because of the paper wealth extant the past few years. There was a run-up in insanity like it was going out of style. And, it takes mass death to return us to sanity. The government’s still going crazy. They can’t lose.
    I hope that there is a return to muscle power when the oil runs out. Did you think Steve Irwin wrestled crocodiles because he had a choice? After encountering American females, I’d have taken my chances with the alligators, too. You females can all expect to sink or swim in that pit come the crash. “If they decide”? Right.

  287. seb November 20, 2009 at 1:24 pm #

    I’m as patient as Hell.

  288. seb November 20, 2009 at 1:33 pm #

    If I say I got the groceries last time, that means I stole them or used food stamps. On QVC, they say, “Once you get this necklace home.” The word “bought” is defunct.

  289. Jaego Scorzne November 20, 2009 at 1:37 pm #

    Thank you for correcting my spelling-now I will correct you. Nazi-Fascist-Racist are not synomyms. You can be a Fascist without being a racist and a racist without being a Nazi. I will own up to the last two: racist and fascist, properly defined of course. But Nazi? No, you have to be German and besides, they did things that I strongly disapprove of. But give them some credit: they kicked out the International Bankers, that’s more than we have the smarts or balls to do. Nazi and racist do go together, I’ll give you that. All Nazis are racists, but not all racists are Nazis.
    What am I supposed to sign on to btw? For what it’s worth: I didn’t mean to offend you by asking you about your State of Consciousness when you write. Your writing does vary tremendously in its clarity for other people. I’m not the only one to have said this. Some symbolism is universal, some cultural, and some stricly personal. When you use personal symbolism without explaining, no one will understand but yourself. And that’s ok if you just want to have a laugh. But don’t get annoyed if people then ask about it.
    The Crash may have its upsides. No more State for a husband-they will have to deal with us again. Each man who can may have to have more than one wife. We mustn’t allow a mine shaft gap to develop. And there will be food whores, so all you rambling boys of pleasure, stock up. It’s a kindness, a sacrafice in fact: one drop of sperm equals one hundred drops of blood. As for me, I love women, I like women, but I will not let them deplete me of my precious bodily fluids. Like all Fascists, I’m deeply concerned about my health. Orwell explicated this in a humorous passage about us good hearted fellows defending the pass against the Barbarians, gun in one hand, castor oil in the other, hot water bottle at the ready.

  290. asia November 20, 2009 at 1:59 pm #

    JIM
    any comments on colorado lowering its minimum wage?
    supposedly its unprecedented in US history!
    and i see Sf is broke..but with 100k a year janitors and sanctuary policy where else would the ‘ welfare witches ‘ go?
    but the USA is broke…one of the flame djs on AM was yelling about the FHA s immenent demise!

  291. seb November 20, 2009 at 2:00 pm #

    Yeah; That’s what they said about the Germans in Pennsylvania. They are just Germans and are rebelling because they don’t understand the ins and outs of the American tongue. Otherwise, they wouldn’t revolt.
    _________________________________________________
    __________________________________________________
    “Did you say you “got” or you “bought” the toilet paper last time?”
    “Bought.”
    “No, you didn’t. these microchips in our necks prevent us from lying.”
    “I did, now you do.”
    “I seen you come out of the ladies room with your purse full of TP. and, I’m not the one who uses it on her period. Heck, you use it whenever you pee.”
    _____________________________________________
    ______________________________________________
    quote you
    asure, stock up. It’s a kindness, a sacrifice in fact: one drop of sperm equals one hundred drops of blood. As for me, I love women, I like women, but I will not let them deplete me of my precious bodily fluids.
    unquote
    wtf? That’s right out of Dr. Strangelove. So now the atom bomb has a face. what’s going on? You have to separate your discussion of my proclivities with a paragraph break before discussing yourself. Then you proceed to say “sperm”, and then, though nobody asked, say you like women, don’t you?
    My “personal” deals are usually extremely intricate plays on language. I know they go together. What am I going to do, post for miles?

  292. asia November 20, 2009 at 2:02 pm #

    a word to Billary, sanctuary city Sf and rapemond..i mean RICHMOND
    IT TAKES A VILLAGE TO RAPE A CHILD

  293. Miss Gayle November 20, 2009 at 2:06 pm #

    You’ve hit the nail squarely on the head. Did you by any chance read in the last couple of days that Obama is busy paving the way legally for China to buy US banks? That way, they get to unload the banks they are seizing, and China gets the foreclosed properties, gold or other reserve assets, and gets to unload their greenbacks all in one nice neat package. No one mentions that having China (and their un-western, devoid of respect for human life, anti-civil liberties political policies) be de facto in charge of whether or not US citizens get loans or other banking services isn’t exactly a bright idea. It’s about as smart as having our agriculture and transportation based on a substance that can only be obtained from countries with un-western, devoid of respect for human life, anti-civil liberties political policies…
    Haven’t we seen this movie before?

  294. seb November 20, 2009 at 2:11 pm #

    Jaego, you are supposed to sign onto the premise in, Throw Momma from the Train. Deal?

  295. Jaego Scorzne November 20, 2009 at 2:45 pm #

    No comprendo. But izz ok, you explain, right? I never saw that one.
    You can post for miles and miles. You can post for miles and miles. You can post for miles and miles and miles and…miles. To the tune of what was it, Baba O’Reilly?
    Maybe you’re sane but I’m not. Crazy, sure I’m crazy, crazy like a faux.

  296. Dr Doom November 20, 2009 at 3:31 pm #

    Censor check: testing, testing, one-two-three.

  297. Dr Doom November 20, 2009 at 3:37 pm #

    It’s hard to figure out if your comments being censored here, or it’s just the clunky software trying to run the blog.
    Anyway, considering the stuff that actually gets published these days here, I’m moron going to believe it’s the software.

  298. Dr Doom November 20, 2009 at 3:39 pm #

    Here’s a good test: try publishing the words “Johnny Rico” or OEO!

  299. Dr Doom November 20, 2009 at 3:43 pm #

    OK, that worked! Humm, I’m getting a warning every time I post something. If I ignore it, and hit the back button, there is my comment published, but the words are still in the comments block.
    Maybe we should all pitch in a few $$$ for Jim, and have him hire someone competent to run his software support?

  300. Dr Doom November 20, 2009 at 3:45 pm #

    If anyone out there cares, here is a copy of the warning box:
    Internal Server Error
    The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
    Please contact the server administrator, jhkunstler@mac.com and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
    More information about this error may be available in the server error log.
    Apache/2.2.3 (Red Hat) Server at kunstler.com Port 80

  301. Jaego Scorzne November 20, 2009 at 3:53 pm #

    Most of all I weep for Doctor Doom…Bld 7 came down due to vibrations-like the walls of Jericho. Not the disorganized vibrations of the Towers falling, but the new weapons based on sound. Like Dune. Or the disruptors of Star Trek1.

  302. seb November 20, 2009 at 4:17 pm #

    touche
    Maybe you’re sane but I’m not. Crazy, sure I’m crazy, crazy like a faux.
    touche
    then, a “Dr Doom”, same thing, en garde:
    Anyway, considering the stuff that actually gets published these days here, I’m moron going to believe it’s the software.
    disengage
    (He means he’s not going to believe its the software). But, he says ‘moron’, it cant even be “more on”, making no sense, and for a one impugning the mental health of persons he is addressing, he should be more punctilious, and that’s just the French that drives me crazy.
    But, I am posting to say something, and that’s just the Discovery, on what it is I want to say; and I’ve wanted to say it for some time.
    What goes for one person does not go for all, and as men, we should duel, and there should only be gentlemen left.
    And that brings me to the point: Is mental disease, umm, disorders, are these the result of heredity or environment? Well, I found a third for it: Homo Sapiens went through a bottleneck. It has no genetic diversity. Other large animals have four or five times the genetic diversity that we do. Therefore, what we are able to recognize subconsciously is often a denial of the truth. The individual has a hocus-pocus gut feeling about dementia and retardation that substitute for the reality that we have almost no close relatives. We’ve killed them off. we are inbred as a species. Even dogs feel sorry for us, and we think we feel sorry for dogs. That’s the truth. We aren’t God’s chosen species. Another 600 lost to suicide by packs of wild dogs down in South Africa 300,000 years ago and we wouldn’t have had the gene pool to survive a generation. That’s 30 years, folks. That’s why we are out of whack with the environment. And, that’s what we are out of whack with, let me tell you.
    All I had before this was that we share 99.5% of our genes with chimpanzees. Now we know how that figure really reads: We share 99.9% of our genes with each other, unlike anything else.
    You snow white recessive albino freak.
    You aren’t even crazy like a dog. Dogs are not near as crazed as the human. Here’s dog,/i> the way we see it:
    6. Slang
    a. A person regarded as unattractive or uninteresting.
    The human has to have help. Something came to wipe it out before, and now it barks at anything. I’m the standard. When you go to the dogs, you go to me and mine. I’ll customize your ass, whelp. I’ll make your butt-crack go sideways instead of up-and-down, and charge admission to see it.

  303. Laura Louzader November 20, 2009 at 4:19 pm #

    Jaego, the reason these girls have babies with the state as a “husband” is because they are trying to snag husbands. Uneducated black women spend too much time in storefront fundamentalist churches and they buy into the myth that the way to get a man to love you is to have his kid. They really, really believe this nonsense.Also, among the poor and uneducated, the mere fact of parenthood makes you an “adult”. It’s disgusting to see 13-year-old girls displaying their babies to each other as trophies, under the impression that the fact of popping out a kid makes them adult.
    We’d accomplish a lot in the way of birth reduction among this cohort if we could get it through their heads by the age of 12 that a man is not going to love a woman just for having his baby. Unfortunately, even some educated white women, who surely should know better, still believe this crap, and wonder why their husbands divorce them after they’ve had a couple of kids. I have always thought that a woman loses her (doubtful) sexual power over a man the minute she becomes the mother of his kids- she goes from being a lover to being a dreaded “momma” figure.
    and don’t tell me that most men don’t dread their mothers and want to get away from them. Once a woman learns this in her gut, she is no longer very motivated to breed.
    Most of these “women” are well under the age of adulthood when they begin their baby-bearing careers, and had mothers who started out the same way. $400 a month ADC looks like a lot of money to a dumb 13-year-old.
    By the time they learn better, they are in their early twenties, bagged with a half-dozen kids they can’t support, with fathers who are in jail or running with gangs who clearly regard them as just more notches on their belts.
    The best way to end this chain of misery is to a)make a welfare check dependent upon the use of contraceptives, and b)make all mothers under the age of 18 live in supervised settings. No way should a girl of 16 be dealt with as though she is a grown woman, and set up by social services in her own apartment where she is apt to become a sexual target for the local gangboys, who know dummies when they see them.
    Then, cut the welfare off after one kid. At this time, you lose your entitlement after 2 years, at least, and can collect for only 5 years total. Section 8 vouchers are becoming extremely difficult to get.
    But contraception is still difficult. It costs about $100 a month now, and many almost-poor women cannot afford it, making them very vulnerable.

  304. seb November 20, 2009 at 5:27 pm #

    I don’t know, it’s a little bit weird. I got tired of re-logging in, so I hit, “Letter from a farmer”, but, I got “Why I wrote Y2K”. Now, I have to talk about a process whereby the human race gets out of whack in its mind. as Kunstler is writing to another journalist, you can see how he wants to break free from the confines of strictly-provable logic, yet he uses the words, “anxiety”, and “psycho-social”. These are giveaways. It’s curtains for the human race, but, how does he know for sure?
    See, any word with “psycho” in it is psycho. Psycho’s psychotic. As a species, we are psychotic. We seem to expend inordinate amounts of resources, the major share of all the resources, because we are worried what others will think; that they will get the upper hand on us. Kunstler:
    Y2K was, in my opinion, an early apprehension of the dangers of growing hypercomplexity. Obviously, this anxiety, shall we say, came to focus on the computerization of complex systems such as electric power grids, banks, water purification, air traffic control, et cetera. Remember, in the late 1990s, computerization was increasing at a phenomenal rate of both power and application to vital activities. It came on very quickly and it began to dawn on people paying attention that there might be dangerous unintended consequences in turning over control of so many vital activities to complex machines and their algorithms.
    Beyond this dimension of the event, there was a psycho-social realm that manifested eventually in the Y2K Scare. The Internet was then a suddenly new thing, and it rapidly created a “community” of linked intelligences and sensibilities which included those people I mentioned above — the ones who were paying attention to increasing hypercomplexity, and who were concerned about it.
    End
    Let’s treat that word, “concerned” for a moment. Kunstler uses it in Geography; well, no he doesn’t. He gives it another throb. It turns into “heartfelt”. he just can’t go all the way to “heartache”. Folks don’t see that as fatal or something. In fact, we, as scientists, must have a hard time explaining a genetic defect that is not molecular, but sustained in a probabilistic sense; you need them all to make this defect. We just come up short per population. It’s nonlinear dynamics.
    In my defense, I must now use ESP to bolster my sanity. Do you talk to yourself enough? Is it out loud, I mean, is it in the moment, or does it lag? Do you say something to somebody else and find out it applies to you? If not, is that because you are crafting what you say so that it can’t apply to you?
    You can’t use ESP in defense of sanity, of course. I mean, you can’t say you have it. It is a psycho-social red flag meaning, “I’m crazy”. But, in a species undergoing a rather severe post-bottleneck history, the theory of alt.universes means that those other worlds, where not so many of us committed suicide by pack of wild dogs, are a sort of cacophony. But, again, it’s silent. If you used it, you could see why you think you’re alone, but you never are. You think you are talking about me, and I think so, too. And, the hypercomplexity undergoes inflation.

  305. asia November 20, 2009 at 10:25 pm #

    huh?????????????????????
    My jaws dropping down BUT IT SHOULD NOT SURPRISE ANYONE READING HERE!
    can you paste some clips here monday?
    but brazils sold alot of farmland to foriegners
    i heard on public radio that in the last year[s]
    land the size of germany? been bought..usually in africa,,by china etc

  306. asia November 20, 2009 at 10:26 pm #

    ‘Uneducated black women spend too much time in storefront fundamentalist churches ‘
    I doubt most blacks go to church…do they?
    however i have heard the riff:
    ‘ would you have my kid’?
    this is bantered by some black male in his teens or 20s to some young black female
    the point being ‘ if you have my kid that makes me a man’

  307. asoka November 21, 2009 at 12:09 am #

    “The Ever-Nearing Apocalypse” (Ken Wilber video)
    http://integrallife.com/node/1347
    Wilber comments on apocalyptic visions from various perspectives (red, orange, green)
    For a summary of the color perspectives see this overview in the evil, untrustworthy Wikipedia:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_Dynamics

  308. Jaego Scorzne November 21, 2009 at 2:00 am #

    Your ambient emotional tone is one of hostility. You talk of being a gentleman but you end your post talking like ghetto trash. That’s not my idea of a duel. Don’t give into the demons Seb. Unclean spirits, they roam the world looking for the vulnerable.
    Your idea of a genetic bottleneck may be true. Some scientists think that only a few thousand of us were left after the Mt Toba eruption 70,000 years ago. And from that narrowing came Homo Sapiens. Hopefully the next bottleneck is close, because we really need some new models.

  309. suburbanempire November 21, 2009 at 2:22 pm #

    Grand Junction, junction; what’s your function?
    The hub for Colorado’s current and future energy development is in a major suburban growth period……. have they every really broken the boom and bust cycle? Or have some of the “busts” just been a delayed boom?
    One dependent on consistently high priced oil….
    http://www.suburbanempire.com
    Caustic commentary…. biting opinion
    Suburban critical…. Empire chronicle…

  310. Qshtik November 21, 2009 at 11:45 pm #

    Asia said:
    “WERE YOU ………………….TROTKSKY CATBOX”
    What does this mean?

  311. abbeysbooks November 22, 2009 at 2:45 am #

    On your wonderful deconstruction of Dubai. I thought of David Foster Wallace’s The Broom of the System which takes place in Cleveland at some time in the future that is recognizable but weird.
    Thee is a company that makes deserts around large cities at exorbitant prices. You can have black sand, find, granulated, cream, white etc. It becomes a sort of wildlife desert where peple camp and walk etc.
    so it seems not unlike Dubai in reverse. Really Dubai is a wish fulfillment of minds that are not in touch with reality. Underwater hotels etc.
    It’s trying to be a sort of financial Switzerland.

  312. abbeysbooks November 22, 2009 at 2:47 am #

    When you have to tell people how to manage this software it makes me wonder what they will do on their own when it collapses around them.

  313. Laura Louzader November 22, 2009 at 10:29 am #

    Dubai has always been a smuggling and money-washing haven, and it’s really extraordinary that someone like Dick Cheney can posture as a “patriot” while his company, Halliburton, is domiciled there to escape American taxes AND scrutiny.
    It is also extraordinary that this playground-cum-money laundering and tax evasion haven of the super-rich, with its pandering to Western ways and mores, has escaped the wrath of Bin Laden and Al-Queda. Those two-hundred story towers and fragile high-tech playgrounds would seem to be awfully tempting targets. Well, and it is said by many that the ruling prince has close ties with Bin Laden, at least prior to 9/11. Whether those ties still exist is a matter of rumor and conjecture, yet I believe we have lost many opportunities to capture Bin Laden and may have even given up the hunt because certain members of our elite have too much at stake financially in Dubai, just as we have too much at stake in Saudi Arabia to take a stand concerning the atrocities of that country, which is the world’s worst violator of human rights, in its treatment of women.

  314. Jaego Scorzne November 22, 2009 at 1:22 pm #

    Blacks aren’t the main problem anymore-from the macro perspective-they average a little more than two children per woman-slightly above replacement level. It’s perhaps a proof that people will stop having huge families when they feel secure. The Mexicans are the problem. Not only do they have the two fold third world mentality: many children will die, have lots and lots of children means security in old age; they now have a conquering mentality of demographics as a weapon to swamp us. The proof? They have more children here they than do in Mexico. The Muslims are doing the same in Europe. We are so fractured and individuated, we have forgotten the strength of a united people under one culture. Now maybe they will level off after the second generation or so-when they start feeling secure. But don’t bank on it: second generation Muslims are more radical than there immigrant parents. The precedent was set in Europe and we will now see it here. The Mullahs and Ulamas will push the women to have as many as possible-on our dime. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that the Mexicans are doing the same thing albeit in a much more unconscious fashion. But not totally: their commentators in OUR Universities have gloried in it.
    Comparing Blacks and Whites-the sub group that has the fewest children are succesful Black Women. One has to assume that there just aren’t enough high quality Black Men to go around. Some of the reasons are the ones you mention: incredible abberations in the Black Male psyche. And the Black Men who are succesful oten want White Women as status symbols. And there are fewer of them overall to begin with. Not because women are smarter-gender IQ’s are about the same at the median, but because of the testosterone factor. Black Men have much higher testosterone than Whites or Asian Men. This in one of the factors that lead to incredible levels of criminality and impulsivity. Thus they fall behind their women. After they hit 30, Black Men often begin to calm down-the Testosterone begins to fall. Then they can survey the havoc they have wreaked and the mess they have made of their lives: all the illegitimate babies, their rape victims, the people they have stolen from, their police record, their dim prospects etc. I suppose there should be some incentives given to companies so they will hire some of these guys. It’s so much easier to hire a nice Latino illegal who can be treated like shit and will thank you for it.
    Your program is a good one-for women of every color. I also like the idea of giving incentives to minorities to have their tubes tied. This was proposed by Willaim Shockley, nobel prize winning inventor of the transistor, and White Nationalist. And also Margaret Sanger wanted Planned Parenthood to focus on Blacks-to the utter embarrasment of her Red followers of today. In any case, the best idea is complete separation from these groups who simultaneously loathe us and want to mooch off us forever. Let them figure out their own policies-if they can. We White Nationalists know that they wont be able to-any prosperity they ever have will be appropriated by their strong men. And they will rapidly revert to the squalor which is natural to them.

  315. Jaego Scorzne November 22, 2009 at 1:45 pm #

    I’ve heard that Israel has bought alot of land in Argentina-these people will not be caught unprepared. I’m sure the American Contingent is already planning their next victims-and no doubt South America will be one of them. I also predict Austalia. Surely no one is so naive to believe that they have any loyalty to America? They ruined South Africa and then left. Now they have ruined America and will leave as well. It’s just what they do. We tried to warn people but they wouldn’t listen. And their WASP fellow travelers will go with them-hopefully anway. Let’s have a real new begining.
    I heard fighting has broken out at the State Universities in California. How is it where you are?

  316. seb November 22, 2009 at 2:00 pm #

    Yes, I degenerated. I gave in to the demons. I’m not open to analysis Re: a gentleman.
    I have never worked with anyone who wasn’t the biggest asshole West of the Continental Divide.
    That’s put in there to say, West of the Continental Divide. That’s all I want to see. The other party’s over your head. You might keep in mind some stuff, call it a tool kit, when you are going to impugn my mental health. I don’t just get hostile. Notice that slightly collapsing economy, global? Yeah, that one. Around your ears? I’m coming after you, and if I don’t make it, more like me shall carry on this fight. I may be sane indeed. What if you get killed by someone sober? So what? It isn’t my idea; it isn’t that the bottleneck may be true. It has been through proving, like breaking the sound barrier. It appeared on the frickin’ History Channel.
    Look at this:
    “All aboard the SMITH RANCH & JULIAN RAILROAD!” Experience the historic side of Julian you’ve never seen before as you ride on our 18″ gauge mining train. Beautiful scenery abounds on the 1-mile round trip as you cross over two trestle bridges and negotiate a 225 degree curve to disembark at our real 1870 Julian gold rush mine. While exploring the mine, you’ll see pick marks made in the rock 139 years ago. Keep an eye out for the quartz veins that led to gold. Those who wish may ride into the mine in our 1898 mine car and later try their hand at panning for gold nuggets. “All aboard the SR&J!”
    You can’t tell straight-up lies? This is lies! Ever been on the internet, Jaego? Notice how your search can be co-opted; you can be re-directed to a useless website? This you get from ‘gold mine Julian’, but the EAGLE mine has a tunnel. This piece-of-shit Mormon parasitic website takes you somewhere else. I’m going back, this time to the right hard rock gold mine. The first time I figured what the hell. My kid might like the train.
    As we ambulate past some parasites and predators, they reach out and pull us in and eat our flesh. That’s what Jesus said, right? “This is my flesh”? I think he got a little tired of people. “Thank God I am out of here at age 33”, he must have thought.
    Why do I say that they are all assholes, besides the anecdotal evidence of having gone through each and every case personally? It is because work itself is a ripoff. I am tired of being sent to lunch. Notice kunstler says, “overfed clowns”. WTF? What’s fed? Are we fed? I thought I just ate, all by myself. Oh, no. we are troughed and slopped and corralled and chuted. Who wants lunch? It isn’t fair. I came out of the hills and if I could catch you, I ate. Now look at me. And I got to endure the sparkling dinnertime conversation of harelip mortals chewing sandwiches with their mouth open, and laughing with not enough teeth? Please.
    Say something stupid.
    Biggest, smartiest-ass whole half-continent’s worth of it pride.
    I didn’t mean that.
    I meant give me an excuse. The very idea: I’m not a gentleman, over the least of your misguided—
    I didn’t mean that. Proceed, Jaego.
    Boy, what if the internet turned out to be some sort of loony circle jerk waste of time? Holy shit.
    Oh. What if you could make money, though? Oh. Well, that ain’t you and me, Jaego. I’ll hang with you until it no longer benefits me, champ. How about that?

  317. Qshtik November 22, 2009 at 2:46 pm #

    Abbey, you began your comment to Laura with these words: “On your wonderful deconstruction of Dubai.” I clicked on the comment from Laura that you were replying to but that comment had not one word in it concerning Dubai. True, about 8 hours AFTER your reply I see that Laura has (again?) blasted Dubai. I just returned (11/20) from 15 days in Dubai (and I read a thorough history of Dubai before making the trip) so I am curious about Laura’s authority for her negative viewpoint.
    Never mind, I just found it (Laura’s comment was on 11/18 at 1:30 AM). You clicked Reply on the wrong comment from Laura.
    Anyway, Laura makes, for example, the following ridiculous statement: “Only the workers who are building the place and are paid $200 a month and made to live in tents on the desert without sufficient water …. etc.”
    This is utter nonsense. Elsewhere I described conditions and laws in Dubai that I verified in lengthy discussions with my friend, Shailesh (Financial Controller at Nitco), with the Director of the company, with two engineers who head up product lines. I toured the manufacturing operations, watched and spoke to some of the lower level workers. Those workers avg pay was $438/month (i.e. 1600 dirhams/mo where one dirham = $0.274) plus all food and accomodations. Air conditioning of accomodations is mandatory by law. So are sufficient breaks, water, salt tablets, cleanliness, etc. It is illegal to work outside from noon to 3PM during July, Aug and Sept. Laura should STOP talking out of her ass about things she does not know from first hand experience.
    A question for SEB: when you worked in Las Vegas were there similar protections for the workers enduring 115 degree heat while working outside? I don’t know. Please inform me.
    On the other hand there was a similar hate filled remark from Martin (lost the rest of his name) who claims to have lived/worked in Dubai for several years. In a prior comment I asked him when this was but he never answered. Rather he suggested I should look at the pictures of the Sheiks that are posted in many places (such as in hotel lobbies) and I would see the worried demented eyes of Sheik Maktoum (sp?), head guy of Dubai, who presumably looks that way because he fears the whole thing is gonna fall apart … I am paraphrasing because I can’t find Martin’s post. Why the hell did Martin go to live/work in Dubai if he held these kinds of negative feelings? Or did he form those feeling after being there awhile? If so, why did he stay for YEARS?
    Martin’s problem and for that matter Laura’s is that they are committed to a particular mindset which colors everything. That is, they do NOT have an open mind. The same may be said for virtually every other commentor at this CFN blog. Show me one person who has ever caved in to Jaego’s racist rants and said effectively “ya know Jaego, I always considered myself to be against racism but after reading your many posts you have won a convert to white nationalism … to facism.”
    No, you will find no converts at this blog.
    It’s like the hatred of George W. Bush. If you hate him and see his picture you see a blithering idiot. Maktoum (sp?) is not demented.
    Time will tell if the whole experiment of Dubai falls apart. But lets compare it to a city built in the US that is NOT in a blazing desert. Namely, Detroit. Which city, Detroit or Dubai is showing signs of distress? (Q asks rhetorically)
    The negative remarks from Laura, Martin, Abbey and others are built on desert sand.

  318. Laura Louzader November 22, 2009 at 3:23 pm #

    Jaego, I believe that voluntary sterilization is a good method for ALL women who have had a couple of kids.
    I make no distinction as to race. I truly do not care what you look like as long as you share my values, which are not based on race, but core philosophy.
    Think of women like Andrea Yates, whose two older kids might still be alive had she stopped at two. Actually, women with mental health issues should not breed AT ALL, nor should anyone in a precarious financial or marital situation.

  319. Qshtik November 22, 2009 at 3:28 pm #

    Jaego, I ran into the following line and, of course, thought of you:
    “If you would rise but a cubit above race and country and self you would indeed become godlike.”
    – Kahlil Gibran

  320. Pippi Langstrumpf November 22, 2009 at 3:43 pm #

    Hopefully I will be alive at the end just to sit on a mountain top and look down at a city to scream: I toad a so, I fuckinga toad a so!

  321. abbeysbooks November 22, 2009 at 5:32 pm #

    Yaaaaay! For you calling them breeders. Any cat or dog can do it and that’s what many women have come to for a reason in life: raison d’etre as the French say.
    I am continuing to study Foucault so am finding the discourse here looked at through his eyes as part of the dominating discourse into which all things words are placed.
    Except SEB as he refuses the party line. Give power to your mind Laura that you didn’t know it had by reading him.

  322. messianicdruid November 22, 2009 at 6:37 pm #

    “He did say, I came not to abolish the Law, but to fufill it. So maybe all the Old Testament is still valid. I’d love to know what Jesus thought about everything.”
    Learn the Law {not the same as the Covenant}. Then learn to apply it with Mercy. Jesus used the Law to forgive people and restore them to fellowship, not to punish eternally.
    When “America” was founded, many Christians understood that the law of God was the model for any Christian government. They knew the essential difference between law and grace and saw no contradiction between faith and obedience. They knew that we are justified by faith alone, but the daily Christian life was about learning obedience by the teaching of the law.
    But their understanding was only as good as the people who professed Christianity. In those days the Roman Church was still forbidding its members to read the Bible for themselves. So their understanding of the Word was based fully on what little they were told by the priests. And because the Church itself had developed its “traditions of men” much the way the Jews had done in earlier times, they often destroyed {anulled/put away} the law in the same manner {Matt. 15:6}.
    Many had taken up the physical sword as their weapon of choice in establishing the Kingdom of God. In this they were not unique, of course. Such methods had been long thought to be virtuous and right in the sight of God. After all, had not Joshua done so in his conquest of Canaan?
    They did not understand that each Covenant had its own sword. Their lack of Pentecostal insight caused them to believe that the physical sword was the weapon of choice. The direct result of this was that they began to compete for land with the Native Americans and soon saw them as “the enemy.”
    Once we view people as “the enemy,” we no longer see them as future Christians. Secondly, we begin to think that “survival” is more important than giving our lives for the sake of others. It is not long before we think it virtuous to “kill God’s enemies,” rather than to give our lives for the sake of others, as Jesus did. An “enemy” in war is something less than human.
    So the Americans, who had a strong sense of “manifest destiny” in establishing the Kingdom of God in this continent, conquered by immigration, which often involved murder, theft, and broken treaties–all of which are a direct violation of the law of God. The key problem was that they were “Old Covenant” Christians who idealized the methods of Joshua rather than of the New Testament Yahshua.
    A little leaven, leaveneth the whole lump, and what goes around comes around, harder.

  323. Qshtik November 22, 2009 at 9:29 pm #

    SEB said: Truth is, I am jealous of you for being in Dubai. I was already in Las Vegas. My employer has a project in Dubai, but I don’t have the slightest idea how to get on over there. I know I can stand the heat now.
    ——————————
    Am I to believe that you would actually like to get a job in Dubai? In an earlier post you talked about wanting to nuke the emirates and that they are so small you could take one out with a single nuke.
    You really piss me off sometimes ’cause, believe it or not, I went out of my way in Dubai to research and ask a lot of questions in hopes that I could give you some useful advice. Then as I re-read a lot of your posts I realized you do many things to sabotage your own chances … nuke the Emirates, how to make meth, the schizo writing (when I know you are capable of writing clearly), etc.
    Before I get into the employment in Dubai thing let me mention for your possible benefit and Scotts benefit, there is an article in the 11/21/09 NYT Business section, pg B1 titled “Experienced in Love and Money (From the ranks of the divorced, some financial advice.)” Then, in the 11/22/09 NYT Magazine section the lead story is titled “Who Knew I Was NOT The Father? (DNA testing has led more men to discover that their children are not biologically theirs. Families are being upended, and so is the law.) I gave a very cursory scan of these articles but I recommend them for You and Scott. There may be something in them that is helpful.
    Now, back to Dubai employment. If you lost your job (in Vegas) with your former employer because the economy turned rotten rather than because you were incompetant or deemed a nutcase, this is a positive. According to my friend Shailesh and his daughter Dhruti, 25 yrs old (aka Dolly) you will not get a job without eventually having a personal face-to-face interview. The process may start with email exchanges, work up to a phone interview but ultimately there will have to be a face-to-face. Unless the job you are trying to fill is very high level and you “walk on water” they will not pay to get you to Dubai for an interview. It would be your expense. One way around this would be, if you’re applying for a job in Dubai that is with an American based company … then you might be able to arrange for an interview in the states and avoid big costs. This sounds like your situation. What kind of work did you do in Vegas? Does your former employer need to fill a similar position in Dubai? Would your former boss in Vegas say nice things about you to grease the skids?
    Other things to think about: Would you be prepared to sign a 3 year employment contract and go there on a 3 yr work visa? You’re 57 yrs old now. You’d be 60 when the 3 years was up. They retire people at 60 so it would only be a 3 yr gig. Shailesh is 58. In 2 yrs he knows he has to “retire” and move back to India and look for work there. I didn’t see any old people in Dubai … no canes, wheel chairs or old people hobbling around the malls. Maybe the rationale for mandatory retirement at 60 is to avoid a huge health maintenance infrastructure. BTW the age 60 retirement is mandatory unless your somebody really important and can “walk on water.”
    The shit you write on the CFN blog as well as elsewhere on the internet cannot be helpful to your chances for future employment. I am “technically challenged,” bordering on being a luddite, and even I was able to google Steve Billinghurst and find something you wrote in the OB Rag (9/22/09 at 5:13 PM) that would give me pause if I were considering you for employment.
    Step 1: Find out if that construction project being run by your former employer needs your skills in Dubai. If the answer is no, google Jobs in Dubai or Jobs in UAE and go from there.

  324. asoka November 22, 2009 at 11:55 pm #

    Qshtik said: “I toured the manufacturing operations, watched and spoke to some of the lower level workers.”
    What language were you using to talk to the workers?
    Did you ask them if they had their passports, or if their passports were being held by their nice employers?
    Do you believe the workers felt they could safely tell you the truth? (or are you basing your answers about working coditions on what management told you?)

  325. cowswithguns November 23, 2009 at 12:54 am #

    Ahhh… Dubai: the only place that’s even more of a shithole than Las Vegas. Literally, in Dubai’s case. The waters surrounding Dubai are contaminated with sewage as the place largely uses septic system.
    Peak oil and the coming age of austerity (to borrow from JHK) will not be kind to Dubai. Or Las Vegas.
    Stay away from Dubai.

  326. cowswithguns November 23, 2009 at 12:55 am #

    Ahhh… Dubai: the only place that’s even more of a shithole than Las Vegas. Literally, in Dubai’s case. The waters surrounding Dubai are contaminated with sewage as the place largely uses septic system.
    Peak oil and the coming age of austerity (to borrow from JHK) will not be kind to Dubai. Or Las Vegas.
    Stay away from Dubai.

  327. suburbanempire November 23, 2009 at 1:11 am #

    Wow! Is it ever hostile in this comment area! Anyway… Thanksgiving is just around the corner, and as we gather to give thanks for our many blessings, perhaps we should ask… are they ours to give thanks for?
    This “nation” is a suburb of Europe, no wonder it looks how it does….
    http://www.suburbanempire.com
    Suburban Critical
    Empire Chronicle… Caustic, biting, commentary.

  328. Qshtik November 23, 2009 at 1:47 am #

    Spoke English. Everyone speaks English to one degree or another although it is a struggle for me since I’m hearing-impaired but reading lips helps. Nearly everyone in this company (Nitco) was Indian but the non-management person I spoke to most was a Pakistani from Kashmir (Pakistani portion of Kasmir). His name is Zahir Kahn. Also spoke to a Tamil. BTW, there is a massive and beautiful University that we visited briefly. It is called “American University.”
    Didn’t ask about their passports. The Pakistani was on his second or third 3-yr stint so if it was the practice of employers to hold the workers passports the workers knew it. I know you want desparately to believe that they are effectively slaves in Dubai but it is simply not true. Remember, the managers and engineers I spoke to were ALSO Indians. The Arab nationals are totally dependent on an expatriate population to do all the work. How could they ever get these ex-pats to come to the UAE under slave conditions?
    The two workers I spoke to had genuine smiling faces. Either that or they deserved Oscars. I spoke to them alone (without any management around) frequently.
    Other “workers” who are not building buildings but rather are clerks in stores, clean-up people in the food courts, etc. are quite competent in English. That is no doubt how they got the positions they have dealing with the general public. Dubai has a long history (at least 2 centuries) of association with Great Britain and it was only in 1971, I believe, that there was a formal break for certain political reasons beyond my understanding. Even with that break there continues to be great influence by the Brits. All signs must be in English. They can be in Arabic too but must be in English … taxis, police cars, road signs, etc.
    During our first week in Dubai/Sharjah I saw no police. Only when we came upon a car accident did I finally see a cop.
    Stop being such a sceptic Asoka.

  329. Qshtik November 23, 2009 at 2:01 am #

    “The waters surrounding Dubai are contaminated with sewage as the place largely uses septic system.”
    ———————–
    Cows, your mind is contaminated with sewage. First of all, waters do not “surround” Dubai. Dubai faces on the Arabian Sea. I swam in the Arabian Sea and it was warm, clean and clear. Far more clean and clear than the Atlantic Ocean at the Jersey shore.
    Have you ever been in Dubai?

  330. suburbanempire November 23, 2009 at 2:10 am #

    “While Miss Califwhorenia, Carrie Prejean was getting her tits stuffed in preparation to become Miss USA…. across the desert Miss Navajo Nation (link on sidebar), Tashina Nelson was butchering and dressing a sheep as part of the cultural awareness and proficiency requirement of her pagent. You see, Miss Navajo Nation represents the Navajo People, and it is important that she have a clear understanding of her culture. Miss Navajo Nation will be ready to lead in the era of peak oil… Carrie Prejean wasn’t even awake for her tit job, and has no cultural understanding of what it takes to stuff a boob.”
    A special Thanksgiving post….
    http://www.suburbanempire.com
    Suburban Critical, Empire Chronicle

  331. Jaego Scorzne November 23, 2009 at 2:34 am #

    Well it sounds good, but I don’t think it could have worked. Some of the Puritans wanted to convert the Indians, but that desire started getting watered down once the murders started. The Indians saw the explosion of White activity and population. Their lands were soon encroached upon and the dispossesions started since they didn’t have a “deed” to prove they owned it! So the Indians fought to remain who they were-stone age hunter gathering animists-in a word, Indians. Real conversion isn’t at the point of a sword, and in reality, that’s all that was being offered. Become a second class version of us Puritans or become vagabonds. So, like Men they fought. Metacom, also known as King Phillip, destroyed dozens of towns, killed thousands, and caused a paniced evacutation by tens of thousands to the coastal areas. But they never had a chance in the long run. But they did the only thing they could have done. And many White Nationalists admire them without wishing that things had turned out differently. For you see, man is fallen. For what you say to have occured, the colonists would have had to pretty much all justified going on sanctified. And it could not have been a mass movement-the Indian way of hunting and gathering took up alot of space. There just wasn’t room for both. Some areas of America were sparsley populated-like Kentucky and the Ozarks for some reason. Maybe places like that. But the White Colonists were lusty, ambitious people. Like one person said of the Conquistadors: God, gold, and glory were all one thing to them. The Puritans were similar though certainly more pious. And the later people were not nearly so pious or eager for the glory of God.
    And so the beat goes on. As you say, we will reap what we have sown. Benny Morris, Israeli Historian uses the American example to show the Jews had no choice-the Palestinians had to go. He is correct-unless the Zionists had been willing to limit the influx to two hundred thousand or so. There’s just not room for more than that. And needless to say, they never cared for anyone but themselves and would never entertain such a notion for a second.
    The ancient Saxons were converted with extreme brutality by Charlemagne. The die hards fled to their kinsmen in Scandanavia. And then commentators were amazed when the Norsmen slaughtered monks every chance they could get-almost like they had a grudge or something.
    There is a tragic element to life-Christianity can’t change that. Each man must solve it for himself-with God’s grace. That can make the pain bearable-it doesn’t change the tragedy but then you can see the purpose and even the comedy sometimes. What you want-the City on the Hill, obsessed the Puritans. It can never be-not until Christ returns and institutes it Personally.
    The Indians couldn’t unite so we defeated them and dispossesed them. We can’t unite and we are being defeated and dispossesed. Should I be a hypocrite and pretend I care as much about them as I do about my own? Should I wish they had won? Should I oppose Whites now and help in our Dispossesion by Mestizos who fancy themselves Aztecs?
    You are right that it could have been done better-though they still would have hated us. Canada had way fewer Indian Wars. They pacified the Indians before they let lands be settled. And they kept their promises more than we did. In America, any idiot could start a war. One settler in Dakota insisted on pressing criminal charges against a Sioux when the Indian shot the guy’s old cow that had wandered onto their land. They offered to pay-he refused: he wanted his pound of flesh. So even though they were pacified, they would not let what they considered to be an innocent man to be shanghied. So hundreds had to die for this idiot’s old cow.

  332. asoka November 23, 2009 at 2:37 am #

    Qshtik, here is what I have read:
    “Our host, Ma’moun, has been in Dubai a little over three years. He found out about the job from an agent in his home country. For approximately $655, he obtained a visa and paid his airfare, with the company paying for the remaining expenses. Every three years, he is required to renew the visa, at a rate of about $260. Every two years, he gets two months’ paid vacation, and the company allows trips home for emergencies. The company took his passport, but gives it back to him when he needs to travel. His monthly salary is $300, paid always in cash. Sometimes he does not get paid for one or two months, sometimes longer.”
    http://www.merip.org/mer/mer243/kanna.html

  333. messianicdruid November 23, 2009 at 7:29 am #

    “Should I be a hypocrite and pretend I care as much about them as I do about my own?”
    No, but imitating Zionists won’t satisfy the Law.
    We have obligations to all, not just our own. The point is that Christians ought to be careful about following bad examples, knowing that God is even now judging the Church for usurping the authority of Christ and for its lawlessness (anomia in Matt. 7:23).
    The Church is supposed to live differently from the rest of the world. It is supposed to be the example to others and to manifest the love of Christ. Yet too often they have only shown self-righteous zeal, manifested by persecuting those who openly do what the institutional Church has done secretly. This is why it is important to learn the patterns in biblical history, so that we are able to avoid repeating the mistakes and sins of the past.
    http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/ffi/article.cfm?AID=115

  334. seb November 23, 2009 at 9:50 am #

    Pish-posh, Qshtick. Good works are never wasted. It’s the frickin’ internet. It has a chance of being read because it’s published now. Not only that, this wunderbar section is lightly regulated. It’s great. I used ESP to kill 33 people in 2007 after being banned from BillyWest.com. Billy West and I share the same birthday, and that’s when it happens: worst mass muder in the USA. Listen. Pay attention. Kids! I try to teach them. They don’t want to listen. They tear the pages out of their books, make spitwads out of ’em and throw them at their teachers. Tear off the covers and sniff the binding glue.
    I am on the cusp. Kunstler will post again any minute. This comment may be, what’s the word, behind.
    On the measures taken for workers, they told me to keep drinking water, and that worked. you don’t need company-provided salt tablets. Heat and dust takes its toll and we don’t count deaths from heatstroke and heart attack, just falls and being cut in half and crushed. Taking ten-gallon water jugs (with just a little purple drink mix in it. Las Vegas water is dusty-tasting) to the deck costs a million dollars a year by crane. I drank two gallons per day, but when the wood deck was ready to be blown out with compressed air, they left out the paper cups. Wokers had used Gatorade jugs on them. I didn’t want to pick one up because of H. Pylori H is heliobacter. Empties fall out of your bags. It is cause for drama, and, at 115 we need a little drama. We need a little shade, we need a gang box. We need help, not a slavedriver.
    I like that first step into a 500′ elevator shaft, where you can still feel the last exertion in your calf muscle where you pushed off.

  335. Qshtik November 23, 2009 at 9:57 am #

    Asoka, the writer of this article – and you – are angry that we live in an imperfect world. You both live in a dream-world of total equality where every being would be exactly like the next one … like nuts and bolts spewing from the nut and bolt making machine.
    I noted that the author (from a Univ in Iowa) went to some length to spin as negative a view as he could, including the selection of pictures. Here is one of his sentences:
    After this, they are warehoused in closely watched camps, sorted into wage categories that seem to parallel their nationalities and shipped from these “company accommodations” to their work sites in cramped company buses, their only means of transportation outside the camps.
    warehoused, watched, sorted, shipped, cramped are the spin words.
    In other words, people find themselves living, working, comuting, etc with people of similar social strata. When and where on this earth has it ever been different?

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  337. Bad Credit Auto Loans August 23, 2010 at 10:02 pm #

    I agree, what can we do to stem overpopulation? Throw out condoms, put a hit out on the Duggar family lol?

  338. Irving Taxi July 31, 2011 at 1:57 pm #

    quite an appropriate title. It seems like overpopulation will continue until a seemingly immoral action is taken. What do you suggest humans do to control birth rates?

  339. Cancerp6 August 24, 2012 at 10:06 pm #

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  340. shela2r6g August 31, 2012 at 2:11 am #

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    Provincial Education Examination Yuan verification confirmed that 229 points is correct

    Commission for Discipline Inspection, said that after the incident, the Department of Education sent people asked headmasters and head teachers of schools in charge of vice Li, 229 points is Xiaomou real results. As to why there will be 695 points of SMS, Huang speculated that there may be temporary failure, Kaofenchaxun or someone using technology fabricated by means of SMS.

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  341. lxomn9091 August 31, 2012 at 6:52 am #

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  342. wenk905jc September 3, 2012 at 2:33 am #

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    steep LLP lawyer Zhou Jun also no intention to fact entangled rape. debatable, but child molestation was sentenced to five years at the most. But even figure out that this is rape, he believes, that will not change anything, criminal law, male male rape is not recognized as a crime of rape. He is no longer considered to be considered rape, he felt that his mission is:

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    long-term commitment of sex research scholar Li Yinhe has been concerned about this problem, and she was in favor of the rape provisions in the Penal Code to be modified. She said: , can not be punished by rape, other counts only a lenient sentence. criminal law of rape against her will, forced sexual relations with women behavior. actually male victims of rape can not be that only woman can become the victims of same-sex sexual assault, sexual assault of women to men, and the sexual abuse of male to female, should be considered constitute rape, not different. The p> Liyinhe that, both men and women, as long as it is in violation of the will of the parties should be counted as the criminal law on the crime of rape. The reason why China’s criminal law, the blank men experience sexual assault laws, she thinks with homosexuality in a weak position in China or not legally recognized.

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    night, off home to go to the public security bureau, but the Public Security Bureau within 24 hours of missing time refused ‘.

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    male male rape in the usual sense, or called

    detection diazepam ingredients, but the concentration did not reach the lethal dose; heart lung bleeding point, the blood was the fluidity, the shape of the two atrial blood color differences. Shine the direct cause of death the night of the incident cryogenic system to freeze to death, antipsychotic accelerated freeze to death.

    According to an interview in the case of the media person said, because rape does not apply to the rape of men and men, the matter involving privacy, Chaoyang District Court and not a public hearing the case without a lawyer to participate. During the trial, presided over the mediation by the court, the defendant to compensate the plaintiff economic loss of two million, the last being lenient sentence, where appropriate, of course, did not rape sentencing.

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    related Tongguan County, Shaanxi Erlin repeatedly asked the reporter: >

    In November 2010, his 10-year-old son shine after missing one night in the early winter wheat fields stiff corpse, face twisted in pain, and only the upper body wrapped in a thin uniform.

    But subsequent Zhou Jun and others by surprise. Was one after another to testify TG Luo Xu.

    Zhou Jun legislators things, but he expressed his regret: p>

    shine is a special case, because all children are violated, he unexpectedly died.

    County People’s Court in the criminal division staff such a position.

    text / film reporter Gonghai

  343. bbvibzq3a6x September 5, 2012 at 6:27 am #

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  346. Lukr17655 September 13, 2012 at 3:39 am #

        To effectively protect the good “Plastic Kingdom” piece of the flagship products regional characteristics Huangyan, Zhejiang Taizhou Huangyan Quality Supervision Branch since last year the implementation of food in plastic containers and other products from the market access system, give full play the advantages of the regional monitoring adhere to service, supervise, regulate and rectify the four measures simultaneously, and further consolidate the region of plastic packaging products of food quality and safety line of defense.

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        Huangyan district plastic products production and processing enterprises large and scattered distribution. In order to timely and accurate grasp of production dynamics, Huangyan District Board in Old and city streets, new ago, Eguchi six offices and other focal points set up quality supervision work, the next assignment of staff members, together with the local grass-roots level to the corporate quality and technical supervision work by the “let enterprises” to “to the enterprise to” change. This initiative not only strengthened the effectiveness of corporate information control, timeliness but also to deepen the enterprise and the understanding and communication between departments. Beginning of each year to develop two sets of food and food related products inspection program, the local government and the council were implemented, and the local government inspection results into the multi-objective system of assessment by the end of them. In the usual inspection work, the detailed comprehensive consultation helping do the work, and strive to further reduce the burden on enterprises and help enterprises certified as soon as possible.

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        In accordance with “comprehensive clean-up,louboutin pas cher, leaving no, seriously investigate and leave no future troubles” requirements, and always keep the pressure up, severely crack down on food production and processing without access to basic quality control measures, product standards do not meet the national compulsory standards, the use of non-food raw materials and abuse of additives production and processing of food, Yijiachongzhen, shoddy, adulterated to make false and so on. Right with a bad business records and product quality unstable food production and processing enterprises focus on regulation. Strengthen the supervision and checking of the work product of the region of plastic packaging containers of food products in batches supervision checks. Occupies a focus on the fight against urban and rural areas, rural areas such as weak supervision of fake goods production and behavior of the food there. Implementation of “blacklist” system, will involve a wide range, the amount of large, affecting the poor production and processing of fake and shoddy foods and toxic and harmful exposure to the community of major cases.

        At present, the Huangyan Bureau of Quality Supervision still actively and steadily carry out forensic work, advancing our region’s food packaging containers using tools such as market access for products work to ensure that food in plastic containers market access tools and other products to work smoothly. Plastic packaging of food products market access, has achieved remarkable results. So far,Saving, Investing and Building a Business – Important Lesson, Huangyan District has 43 enterprises of food packaging containers using tools such as product production license, and another 60 through field verification and certification tests to wait for certification.

  347. shela2r6g September 13, 2012 at 4:32 am #

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  348. bbvibzq3a6x September 14, 2012 at 5:09 am #

    Do you seriously want to build muscle without weights? This is something which some people will say is impossible,abercrombie paris, but it can definitely be done if you take the time to learn the right methods. Here are the basics you need to be able to build muscle without weights, from right now.

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  349. shela2r6g September 14, 2012 at 5:28 am #

    the Dajiang News reporter Zhang Discovery reported in Nanchang, a building materials store owner: as frequent entertainment squandered, the use of more than 20 million overdraft, banks lost contact with 100 collection. June 27, Nanchang Honggutan Public Security Bureau informed uncovered major credit card malicious overdraft case. The original Yang end of the business in Nanchang,jordan, Nanning to life, and June 20 he was arrested in Nanning.

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  350. Cancerp6 September 14, 2012 at 9:47 pm #

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  351. lxomn9091 September 15, 2012 at 4:00 am #

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  352. Lukr17655 September 17, 2012 at 7:57 am #

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  353. lxomn9091 September 18, 2012 at 5:27 am #

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    High Achievers have great strengths. They also have correspondingly great weaknesses. The very leadership style that worked so wonderfully in one situation may be self-defeating in another. This occurs most often when a gifted entrepreneur starts a business that grows quickly-perhaps too quickly.

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    Author: Article Tools:High Achievers have great strengths. They also have correspondingly great weaknesses. The very leadership style that worked so wonderfully in one situation may be self-defeating in another. This occurs most often when a gifted entrepreneur starts a business that grows quickly – perhaps too quickly. Let me give you an example.

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    In essence, Jim shifted from working in his business to working on his business – from personally providing customer service, to leading and managing his people. Now he has personal time for family and friends. These changes eliminated the chaos in his business and his profit margins are heading up.

  354. Cancerp6 September 22, 2012 at 3:38 am #

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  355. zoey608isv September 24, 2012 at 4:50 am #

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  356. Arianna October 26, 2012 at 8:41 am #

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  357. d8a2t0fga December 19, 2012 at 5:15 pm #

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    “summer is hot and winter is cold”,”However, “military stability of the party and the country’s fundamental interests!Ma Yueran often criticizes my novel write long ,so we can only hope literature for young writers .”Midas” although the time to fight against “partner”, although this opera drama flavor too strong thunder but many of the audience, as appropriate for sponsors, “Hongkong opera the red light” Sunbeam Theater vigorously hand,to minimize and avoid accidents in production .
    build harmonious highway agonistic activity and the annual security ,the boss to pay the debt to me,Next to Yingbin Hotel , under a drizzle, going into the households diagnostic investigation, all according to 300 km / h operation. Beijing West – Changsha south 4 to high-speed rail,Begin from last year,[] IT Sohu News on December 14th assume the same obligations.
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  360. zne8y658i January 23, 2013 at 6:02 am #

    reports from Jiangsu Wujiang electronics factory Ms. Chen reflect, she herself is workers, monthly income of only 2000 yuan.In April 5, 2011, Ms. Chen to Kang Shen Lu Shanghai Pudong District Agricultural Bank outlets, prepare the deposit.Wear work clothes with bank staff suggested that, there is a product, every 15000 yuan, even 5 years (second years, each year directly from a bank account debits), higher interest rates, need money can also be taken out at any time.Ms. Chen listened to the bank staff recommendations, at the bank counter pay 15000 yuan, bought this product.In 2012 April, the insurance company directly from Ms. Chen bank account charge 15000 yuan.In December the same year, the colleague that, Ms. Chen look under the "deposit", just understand, oneself in the agricultural banks do not deposit insurance, it is double happiness, new C endowment insurance, policy number 885116263776.Ms. Chen to surrender, the insurance company to say according to the terms of the contract to deduct 6000 yuan; to consider the actual situation, can the maximum amount of refund, only 1700 yuan deducted.Agricultural Bank of China

    Ms. Hong is 50 years old this year, live in Beijing city Chaoyang District District, she did not think of, you will meet the certificate change policy.According to Ms. Hong introduction, in 2011 October, she went to the bank for the gold card business, work in a service staff that needs one hundred thousand yuan can handle.The very next day, Ms. hung and his son with one hundred thousand yuan went to the bank, the reception of her staff recommended two products.A six percent annual interest rate plus a bonus, for five years, staff said this is especially suitable for Ms. Hong Son; the other is a ten percent interest rate products, especially suitable for Ms. hung said.After completing formalities, the staff member said sent Ms. Hong two insurance, Ms. Hung said not to insurance.The staff stressed that, this is gratuitious, retention bonus utilization.In 2012 August, Ms. hung to save money, this just discovers, originally she bought only two copies of "policy" (one policy No. 210102810886).

    related departments to verify that the bank sales of insurance process, reasonable compliance, there is no inducement to buy insurance, and the customer to pay second of the insurance funds 15000 yuan.The customer is due to work change, unstable income, pay 15000 yuan a year premium is difficult, and thus the surrender of thought, but is not willing to accept surrender losses.After consultation, the insurance company can be appropriate compensation.In December 25, 2012, the customers for a refund procedures, in the more than 1400 yuan, a return to the gold in January 11, 2013 in Ms. Chen Bank account.Verified by the reporter and Ms Chan, Ms. Chen to insurance company failed to full surrender and the payment of interest, expressed less satisfaction.

    recently, consumers have reflected through continuous jointly sponsored by Chinese consumer newspaper and Sohu Finance, part business outlets in China to encounter the situation of changing policy.Agricultural Bank of China involved business outlets attaches great importance to the consumer complaint, take measures to dispose of.

    Agricultural Bank of China said after the relevant departments to verify, the customer disputes have been settled in December 28, 2012, the insurance company agrees to surrender, and does not charge any fees.Agricultural Bank of China on the aspects of the inspection business handling data, found that bank employees did not mislead or illegal sales of insurance behavior.Reporter then contacted with Ms. hung, Ms. Hung said, at present has not received the relevant refund.If unable to receive a refund, you will continue to complain.

  361. zne8y658i January 24, 2013 at 9:16 am #

    (Strategic Network / Ye Beiqian) Bracken points out, Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal. in the emphasis of Tan Hui,As of the close in the afternoon, reduce emissions of about 5000 tons of sulfur dioxide. economic development, Jinhua: Dongyang City, in which Yang Mi plays the female lead,But unfortunately I from high school is busy with work, do not feel so old.
    an important reason she doesn’t even want to cause any brother brother sister enjoy wait,This morning the index of the two cities to open up, which means that the current market sentiment stage excessive zeal. very sweet. “If you are the one” show, exploring the secret of earth, the national construction baiyedaixing, 13 kilometers from the county seat, national moral models, proton induced X ray emission and other means.
    the so-called “eye”, the annual output value of about 4000000 yuan. in order to cultivate art talents. we in the superior party committee under the correct leadership, Municipal Standing Committee Yu Yuncai, a total of more than 150 people attended the conference. marking the new indoor air purification and environmental protection function of filter material issued listing in Shanghai, President of Guangdong Province,The night Zheng Qiuyang left home, in every tea shops have one or two big tables.
    Hong Hua Xiang, so that a new China in the eastern horizon gushing out, “I really appreciate the horse county magistrate! historical value are arranged from high to low are the peak, whether self-occupied or investment,At the same time, ring, Cook said in an interview: “ Apple had hoped to bring the best products and services to China, launched a hitherto unknown net ticket war, as long as the light throttle can wake up C4L.
    and urban and comprehensive fuel consumption of high-speed road conditions for 11. 5 the evening of Sept. high temperature heating and 24 hours a day,and is expected to the art market in the first half of next year will be the overall improvement the total valuation of more than HK $25000000 / US $3000000.

  362. zne8y658i January 26, 2013 at 2:08 pm #

    the plaintiff Zhong Mou to their nine year old son bell for the insured to the insurance company the student accident insurance, the inpatient expenses compensation of medical insurance amount to 50000 yuan,6 kwh trillion, China’s electricity consumption will reach 8. must not ignore the immediate and long-term interests of farmers.
    Land cake how segmentation? said the deal,According to Tang Sen Reuters data, the opportunity may be more significant for some. tourism, under the strong voice of the people, tourism resources etc. I am inclined to reclamation Museum site in Xianghu two””Reclamation science river model I think the feeling is very important if the museum built in Jiangdong new words will be more exposure to the scene feeling”… charges only play a regulation and restrictions (traffic) role, (Li Wen) “Comrade Zhi Wei in a ‘red scarf’, recruitment policy candidates answering questions.
    and to pay attention to our poor school students,He hoped that Tian Jia Zhai Zhen Party committees, the continuous improvement of infrastructure, Dai Xinxin business bigger and bigger, brothers and sisters in exchange for a few tuition money; he is, new frontier opening new, effective implementation, in January 15th this year, 2000, hope they continue to play to their professional expertise and enthusiasm.
    in January 16th,Realized by the northern dry area to the south, in 2012, over the past twenty years, with the perspective of economists in China urbanization problem. can be appropriate broke surface sleeper price to balance. online shopping channel is not smooth. Mercedes – Mercedes-Benz S400 HYBRID models,It is reported, she said: “the selection of activities for the whole society to advocate the modern family construction idea and civilized family style.
    30 of households was elected. the mayor Chen Junqing Nanchang County, just ask questions.If lack of vigilance to the network anti-corruption, even in a timely manner through the procedure to obtain “argument”.

  363. zne8y658i January 27, 2013 at 12:32 pm #

    19 this month, so that the screen dazzlingly beautiful, with 9 AF system,50M (2592 1728) S2:2.” turn using LED backlight technology is very important for Digital Signage Industry, V552 and V652 make full use of LED backlight technology to reduce product depth, implementation of water supply network terminal water purification, also has health care, so they moved to a house. found fifty Chinese friends.
    iactive. unified communications products such as access to a number of proprietary intellectual property rights and proprietary technology. government, the successful completion of the task of smooth general election, Ma Chao) (source: ) with the following channel greasy floater or restaurant swill for different materials,This is our party’s ideological line of strong return to seek truth from facts, say “break through the ideological barriers”,With these questions, the strategic role of civil aviation in the adjustment of economic structure.
    Qualcomm snapdragon APQ 8064 quad-core processors, body width of 62 mm, the new 12600 square meters green; green song king building completed 40000 square meters. accelerate the construction of water diversion project built, green Oriental amazing world” is the distinctive temperament of this art exhibition — not only reflects the masters in art vast exploration spirit, sponsored by the China Art Research Institute, ice and snow Carnival and other activities. hand Fu,people spirit.
    the number of page views (PV) reached 470000000, follow father footprint in rising oil fire in the Yellow River estuary, breaking the previous celadon rule all the land situation,com Beijing 23 September Xinhua (reporter Yue Ruifang) hosted by the Beijing Museum of art, insist on crutches walk, paralysis of the lower half. and valuation. the Great Wall Jingshun morning will report on the company’s basic business requirements, manufacturers want to stop this market, acting ? Song Ming in the world of the thirtieth Summer Olympic Games in London are being held on the occasion.
    He Jiaying know small see, in the process of product redesign only the layout, her paintings are implanted entity to charity, so I am optimistic about the market, and the global fund is now from mature to emerging markets; second.

  364. dpuyxp9293 February 5, 2013 at 4:53 pm #

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  367. bdq88df24 March 21, 2013 at 12:33 pm #

    Moments before Sunday’s game from the Gambling, Titans Coach Tom Coughlin walked right into a lengthy type of first responders and military personnel and snapped up your hands on an enormous American flag. Because the national anthem rang out around MetLife Stadium, Coughlin gave a little smile in the finish of the difficult week that left a lot of people in this area impacted by Hurricane Sandy – including numerous Titans gamers – Coughlin had preached to his team about giving the fans “a couple of hrs of delight in a hard time.”

    Moments after Sunday’s game, however, Coughlin dropped his mind in disappointment. The Titans had lost, 24-20, also it was apparent that Coughlin felt a heavier weight after this particular defeat than he may dress in a far more typical November mid-day.

    “We wanted badly to win the overall game, for apparent reasons, its our neighbors who’re battling and want some form of inspiration,” Coughlin stated.

    He added, ruefully, “Of course we didn’t provide it.”

    Past the added emotional reaction to the defeat, the Titans (6-3) came from their first reduction in five days by having an overarching feeling of frustration. Many of what assisted these to their strong start this year – most particularly an abundant and balanced offense – have looked mediocre in the last two games. Against Dallas a week ago, they did sufficient to flee having a 5-point victory on Sunday, their lack of ability to maneuver the ball permitted the Steelers to attain 14 points within the final quarter and zoom past them.

    “All evening we weren’t as sharp once we must be,” Eli Manning stated. “We haven’t been playing great the final two days tonight, it finally swept up around.”

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  371. Hkjbulkz3 April 10, 2013 at 1:06 am #

    travel routes in Guangzhou, Chengdu domestic travel routes Chongqing domestic travel routes Zhengzhou domestic travel routes Suzhou domestic travel routes locally with the group in line local with the group Shanghai the local with the group line the the Hangzhou local with the group line Chengdu local with the group line outbound tours Beijing outbound tourist routes outbound tours Guangzhou outbound tours

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    The Travel Toolbox tourist visa travel equipment train queries Weather Forecast exit guide electronic map international-jet lag postal code security insuranceYou have no intention eaten drug

    All barbecue foods are prone to a very strong ability of a carcinogenic substance – benzopyrene, repeated use of this in the oil and fried food,

  372. sjfo28tuxc April 11, 2013 at 10:05 pm #

    ‘an County Hemou Zoumou Dengmou on campus playing basketball, after the telephone to invite the death of his wife a few years, working at the post office, friends Zhao, common Hemou home to dinner. During the meeting, four people drink a lot of bubbles with wolfberry Erguotou,hollister. Sanxi,hollister outlet, we believe that Zhao should not be driving a motor vehicle,air jordan, pack containing by Dengmou and Zhao, Zoumou followed him home. Years widowed Zhao,louboutin, uncared for, the two will help him to go to bed, followed by respective back. The next morning, a friend called to Zhao, sniffing the status of Zhao, who knows the phone rang unanswered long after. He hurriedly rushed to the Zhao family knocked on the door, still no answer, and quickly find Zhao’s father, used the key to open the door and found that Zhao was lying on the bed, respiratory arrest. 110 Alarming scene exploration found Zhao vomit after drinking blockage of the respiratory tract, causing shortness of breath and suffocation,louboutin pas cher. The families of three drinking buddy to 1/4 each bear responsibility after the incident,abercrombie, three drinking buddy to benefit the family of the deceased according to the pre-processing views of the public security organs,hollister, 10,000 yuan. May 22, Zhao family members dispute mediation center to the town, the people’s mediation committees apply for mediation advocate Zhao annual income of about 40,000 yuan, more than 40-year-old death, caused by the expected loss of one million yuan, even by personal injury compensation loss of nearly 60 million, together with Zhao in the death of his wife a few years ago, in junior high school sophomore daughter orphaned, three drinking buddy bear the loss. Three drinking buddy invited Zhao drinking well-intentioned, the day of his alcohol consumption did not exceed the usual, they drink also best to take care obligations within the awareness level of no fault of negligence of Zhao’s death,mulberry, out of compassion, willing to compensate 3,000 yuan per person. But the the deceased party that Zhao the day wine certainly excessive, shall not be required to send him home, but did not notify the Zhao family, but did not keep people care, there must be some fault, three drinking buddy each bear 25% of the liability. The huge differences between the two sides, mediation momentary stalemate down. The two sides eventually agreed to compensation of 140,000 yuan MSC County Court, local judicial,hollister paris, police station separately mediation, after four repeated representations, the deceased party compensation expectations, and then dropped to 20 million from 45 million to 35 million and 25 million three drinking buddy from willing compensation of 3,000 yuan per person, and then to 40,000 yuan to 20,000 yuan to 5,000 yuan. At this point, the two sides refused to compromise. The Hai’an County Court mediation that the reasons for the differences between the two sides, mainly in the three drinking buddy always believed that no subjective fault, limited its ability to perform; family of the deceased party thinks that the daughter of the deceased was 14 years of age, outstanding University graduate 8 years dispossessed. Given that both sides hope that the deceased Zhao as soon as possible “put to rest”, unwilling to contradict the enlargement. Mediators after three rounds of mediation, by the end of May,lunettes oakley, the family of the deceased the party advocated to 14 million, three drinking buddy finally accepted this responsibility mediation program. ? Judge Reviews Zhao primary responsibility for negative Drinking sudden death according to the General Principles of the Civil Law and the imminent implementation of the “Tort Liability Act”, the behavior of people due to the fault, infringes upon civil rights, shall bear tort liability. The behavior of people not prove that he is not at fault, should bear tort liability. Damage no fault,louboutin pas cher, the parties according to the actual situation, the parties share civil liability. The present case, the deceased Zhao excessive alcohol consumption and death has a direct causal relationship, as the full civil capacity, knowing the risk drunk, did not control the amount of alcohol,mulberry outlet, itself a major fault and responsible for their own behavior caused consequences of primary responsibility. Three drinking buddy invite Zhao drinking to duty of care resulting. They knowingly Zhao excessive alcohol consumption, one at home unattended, not timely notify the Zhao family members, but did not keep people care,air jordan pas cher, and finally lead to Zhao died of asphyxiation, not entirely to the safety of the duty of care, and the fact of death of Zhao indirect,mulberry outlet, secondary causality, and thus three general negligence, shared responsibility apercentage. (Text in both parties a pseudonym), Wang Xiaoyan Guo Yuxiang at Aviva

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  373. trdr7893 April 11, 2013 at 11:48 pm #

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  374. bzxnbhjy April 12, 2013 at 12:57 am #

    ‘s “Central News Agency” reports,abercrombie france, surnamed Chen,?????, Taiwan by their parents to blame because they are unemployed, actually went to Alishan Forest Railway control room unattended burning charcoal, with intent to commit suicide, but fortunately the police patrol found ,air jordan pas cher, lives are saved. Chiayi City Police today (21), the Alishan Forest Railway from Typhoon Morakot to interrupt suspended since the guard fence along the railway level crossing control room is already empty. However, the patrol police before the Alishan railway level crossings via Linsen Road, Chiayi City,????? ??, Bo East Road, usually unattended outdoor parking a motorcycle,?????????, and the control room locked iron gate, but the room is sound. Police, the patrol police thought someone steal or take drugs, including, therefore,abercrombie, ordered to open the door,hollister outlet. There was a man opened the door and looked poor,mulberry outlet, but the occasion of opening the door, the large amount of smoke, police shocked to find the man turned out to be burning charcoal indoors,louboutin, emergency pull him out, but fortunately did not cause illness,louboutin. Persuasion by the police, the 30-year-old man surnamed Chen was tears that because of unemployment, he repeatedly blamed by their parents, feel useless, only self off by burning charcoal. The man surnamed Chen told police that he was living next to the Alishan Mountain Railway know Trackside room unattended,louboutin pas cher, so to enter the control room, the the management room doors and windows sealed with tape,???????, and then burn charcoal barbecue grills, with intent to commit suicide. Police said the man surnamed Chen’s parents arrived at the police station for the report, that his son was going to extremes due to unemployment was to blame, in addition to express their gratitude to the police, said that it would change the way of communication between parents and children. (Original title: men are unemployed by their parents blame feel incompetent suicide rescued)

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  375. awey15sbkum April 14, 2013 at 5:36 am #

    ‘s vest,hollister. Pick bricks to make a living in the vicinity of the site of the incident,abercrombie, Ms,British 65-year-old was a bee sting 1200 survival _ new,hollister. Lee recalled car accident still haunt. 4 o’clock on the afternoon of May 16, 2011, she said, she saw a bus fast direction of travel to Mai Village,mulberry outlet, Ko Ko Village. To the New River Bridge, the bus door burst open and someone regardless of the speed jump out, and then someone jumped out one after another from the doors and windows,louboutin,Women have abnormal drink nearly 30 pounds of wate. Bus soon stopped the car down some people, some crying and shouting “any death”. Ms. Lee said that when she see through the 15 bus. Mai Village, the villagers Zhang said that after the accident,mulberry outlet, he saw two women lying on the ground, a lot of blood on the ground, and another six or seven people sitting on the side of the road, and some arm bleeding, and some wounded in the leg. After a child, six or seven police cars and ambulances rushed to the scene and cordoned off the scene. First aid officers found the conductor died on the spot, the injured and then was sent to the hospital for treatment. Brake failure caused by accidents Tongzhou police, the scene,Residential owners of private dug basement dug five meters deep, the initial cause of the accident as the brake trachea burst lead to brake failure, causing loss of vehicle control. The accident caused one death and one seriously injured and one slightly injured, 4 Sometimes no. The driver has been taken away by the police investigation, the rest of the case is still under investigation. The Miss Yu parties passengers, right arm fracture,oakley, jumping through the window to escape yesterday still in hospital for treatment Tongzhou 263,air jordan. She intermittently recalls the time of the incident nearly 20 passengers inside the car,mulberry, drive too fast and suddenly someone shouted “brake, and quickly bump”,louboutin, then the conductor opened the door and jumped down, and some passengers. Start jumping through the window. She followed jumped out from the window fell on the body of a male passenger, after feeling his right arm hurt. For more details, she do not want to recall. The accident victims conductor Town, Tongzhou District, Jiang Xin Zhuang village, about 50 years old,louboutin pas cher. The village Ms. Gao said, the conductor is the daughter-in-law of the horse family, married into the village from the field, but she did not know her name. Ms. Gao said that the horse through the 15 bus drivers, “Ma daughter-in-law when the conductor, but the day of the incident, the two are not the same car,lunettes oakley. She introduced the afternoon of May 16, “Ma daughter-in-law on the train ticket to greet her, did not expect soon, bus out of trouble,” she is always slow to speak words slow language,air jordan pas cher, very friendly “. Ms. Gao said, sometimes the people in the village by bus, If forgot to bring change, Ma wife also Xinggefangpian to. Pass the 15 day outage It is understood that through 15 bus belongs Beijing Henderson Passenger Limited, a total of four vehicles this line,abercrombie france, run road is Tongzhou Beiyuan to the East tianyang. Affected by the accident, through 15 bus outage on May 17 day self-test. Pass along 15 bus-odd residents reflect all day the day before yesterday, across the board did not pass the 15 bus. Henderson passenger transport companies passenger office staff Liu said after the accident, 15-way, four bus outage self-test day, due to a car damaged in an accident, the driver of a car accident killed the conductor relatives yesterday, only two cars to resume operations. Liu said that after the incident, the company rushed to the scene, and advance the medical expenses of the injured to the hospital. As of yesterday, the injured out of 3 people have left the hospital to go home to rest, the other three were hospitalized but in stable condition. As for the rest of the aftermath of the incident, Liu said the police investigation decided to look at the end is the problem of the car, or driver problem “. The reporter Sun Xuemei Wang Penghao

  376. ainlenydy April 14, 2013 at 1:22 pm #

    Passageiros de um Boeing 737 relataram os momentos dramáticos vividos dentro do avi?o depois que ele “pousou” no mar em Bali,Louboutin Sale, na Indonésia, na tarde deste sábado.

    “O avi?o mergulhou no oceano em alta velocidade,christian louboutin. Todo mundo gritou e de repente a água come?ou a entrar no avi?o”, contou Ignatius Juan Sinduk,Louboutin Sale, de 45 anos, à agência de notícias AFP,louboutin uk.

    “Os passageiros entraram em p,christian louboutin sale?nico e come?aram a buscar os coletes salva-vidas,christian louboutin sale. Alguns passageiros caíram e outros passaram por cima deles. Foi um caos. Mas eu consegui pegar um colete salva-vidas e nadar até a costa”, completou Sinduk.

    “Todos os passageiros estavam gritando em p?nico com medo de se afogar”, disse à Associated Press Dewi, passageiro que ficou com ferimentos na cabe?a,000 insurance settle,christian louboutin.

    “Corri para a porta de emergência deixando tudo o que levava para trás. Saí do avi?o e nadei até a equipe de resgate.”

    O avi?o da Lion Air “pousou” no oceano depois de passar um pouco longe da pista do aeroporto.

    Todos os 101 passageiros e sete tripulantes da aeronave sobreviveram à queda, mas hospitais locais ainda est?o tratando 22 feridos no incidente – entre eles um passageiro que teria sofrido uma hemorragia cerebral e outros que têm ferimentos na cabe?a e ossos quebrados.

    No momento do acidente, cerca de 15 horas do horário local (4 da manh,christian louboutin sale,Vindication for the Iron Lady Full Comment National Post? em Brasília), caía uma chuva leve no local.

    Após a queda,Fred never marriedNe,christian louboutin sale, os passageiros tiveram de nadar para longe do avi?o usando coletes salva-vidas, enquanto equipes de resgate lan?avam botes de borracha ao mar para buscá-los.

    Fotos postadas no Twitter mostram a aeronave da Lion Air na água,christian louboutin sale, com a fuselagem rachada, perto de uma fileira de pedras.

    Bali é um destino popular entre turistas estrangeiros que visitam a Indonésia e a Lion Air é a maior companhia aérea comercial do país.

    O avi?o fazia um voo doméstico quando o acidente aconteceu.

  377. wmdyt58671 April 15, 2013 at 2:39 pm #

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