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Eleven year old Jeff Greenaway is in love and on the loose in Manhattan circa 1962.
This book will crack you up.
For adults.

Sheer antic delight” — Remsen Pilchard

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Unthinkable

     In the drunken, drug-crazed twilight of its run as Leader of the Free World, America’s collective imagination swerves from one breakdown lane to the other while the highway patrol throws a donuts-and-porn party down at headquarters and the news media searches the gutter on hands-and-knees looking for the spot where it dropped its brains. 
     The other day, Larry Kudlow, the king popinjay at CNBC, told viewers that the US has over a trillion barrels of oil waiting to be drill-drill-drilled on our way to “energy independence.” This is the kind of malarkey that America thrives on these days, the way yeasts thrive on sugary mash. It’s a complete falsehood, of course, but the working dead over at The New York Times said substantially the same thing in a front-page story the week before. The Timespersons have only one source for their stories: Daniel Yergin, chief public relations pimp for the oil industry, because he makes it so easy for them by providing all the information they will ever need. The oil and gas companies would like to direct the fire-hose of loose and easy money out there into their stock prices – building to the magic moment when, Mozillo-like, the executives can dump shares, cut, and run for the far hills where no SEC officer or DOJ attorney will ever think to look. This is just another racket in an all-rackets society.
     The fantasy of energy independence therefore takes shape as a “settled matter” as we lurch toward elections. The arch-moron Mitt Romney will inveigh against Obama for holding the oil dogs back while Obama pretends to spank the oil companies for gouging the public on that alleged Niagara flow of new oil. None of them understands the true situation, which is that the USA is enjoying one last gulp of a very expensive oil cocktail with the last few dollars it can prestidigitate out of the central bank’s magic box, and then there is no more even notional surplus wealth to blow on more drinks. 
     And it isn’t even much of a gulp. US production of “all liquids” – which includes methane gas drippings, ethanol, etc – went from 7.2 million barrels a day in 2004 to about 7.7 in 2011. We use about 19 million barrels a day, down about a million from peak US consumption before the financial crash of 2008. The reason it’s down: Americans are going broke, one household and one small business at a time. Shale oil production is approaching half a million barrels a day. That’s about 45 minutes of daily go-power. It might go up to an hour-and-a-half before production of shale oil permanently crashes on the combination of fast-depleting wells and a lack of capital to keep drilling new ones at $8 million per well.
    The story for shale gas is similar, except that initial production was so exorbitant that it drove the price down to nearly nothing (the $2 range), and the bust from that Ponzi will be even more spectacular than the shale oil. Everyone from Mr. Obama to the chiselers who run Citigroup maintain that there is a one hundred year supply of gas in the USA. They are going to be very disappointed. The public, on the other hand, will not even remember what they said as they burn down the cornfields in anguish.
     I met a guy at the pumps last week who was filling up a pickup truck at least twice the size of mine a few yards away. I asked him how things were going fuel-wise with that monster Ram-Charger he was feeding. At more than $100 a fill-up, it was killing him he said. His line-of-work required him to drive all over the county incessantly. His reality was a bit different from the oil company execs promising limitless horizons of oil to CNBC-watching retirees desperate for some “yield” on investment in the face of ZIRP bond rates. The price of oil (and gasoline) may well crash again, but when it does, there will be fewer business reasons for anyone to drive around the county all the live-long day, and that guy’s Ram-Charger could fall into the hands of the re-po goon squad. He may never be able to get another one, either. No more money for truck loans. Capital shortage. Sorry.
     This oil and gas thing cuts so many ways that the public will feel like it is gargling Gillette blue blades. Just add up the total tonnage of steel necessary to keep this Ponzi going and you would reach a discouraging conclusion: this thing has nowhere to go but swift and implacable contraction. The ultimate destination of “energy independence” will be a nation with no cars and trucks to run. We’ll get there, you’ll see. But that is speaking the unthinkable.
*
     Thanks to all readers for sending many kind and thoughtful letters about cholesterol, diet, statins, doctors, and the medical racket in response to my two previous blogs on those subjects.
___________________________
     
 My books are available at all the usual places.


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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency, and Too Much Magic: Wishful Thinking, Technology and the Fate of the Nation. His novels include World Made By Hand, The Witch of Hebron, Maggie Darling — A Modern Romance, The Halloween Ball, an Embarrassment of Riches, and many others. He has published three novellas with Water Street Press: Manhattan Gothic, A Christmas Orphan, and The Flight of Mehetabel.

833 Responses to “Unthinkable” Subscribe

  1. djc April 2, 2012 at 9:48 am #

    Its good to see JHK back in form again. His point, though anecdotal, about the $100 fill-up shows he’s an astute observer of the severe financial strains the 99% are going through. My take on it is there is really no where to go to get away from the coming Long Emergency.

  2. k-dog April 2, 2012 at 9:51 am #

    A trillion barrels is laughable. The entire endowment 100 years ago was not much greater than that. Meanwhile one in four children go hungry and the employed remain unemployed at 1930’s depression levels with no end in sight.
    It looks like quObama has taken the last man standing position and is running with it.

  3. csafarmer April 2, 2012 at 9:53 am #

    Agree with the conclusions re where this particular C-F is going, but I doubt that the politico’s are drinking their own kool-aid. The PTB know and understand the realities of Peak Everything very well.
    They just don’t have the guts/brains to publicly acknowledge this reality, because then they would be expected to come up with a plan to cope. Much tougher than trying to police the ‘privates’ of the nation, or fiddling ‘hopey-changey’ songs while the nation burns down.
    Save yourself and your community, it doesn’t matter which particular clown is running the circus, you will be on your own when push comes to, well, shoot.

  4. Jimmy Drinkwater April 2, 2012 at 9:59 am #

    That Ram-Charger guy might be needing some alt trans soon……and a cargo trailer.
    http://alttransbikes.blogspot.com

  5. mow April 2, 2012 at 10:00 am #

    kudlow is serving up the same manure that was fed to us 35 years ago.

  6. 3rd Generation April 2, 2012 at 10:01 am #

    “prestidigitate”
    ________ searches the gutter on hands-and-knees looking for the spot where he dropped his thesarus?
    Make any other words up this week?

  7. k-dog April 2, 2012 at 10:02 am #

    I imagine with the bull and deception at record levels Iran goes ahead full speed with plans for self defense. Fearing an entire nation of nuclear armed starving potato farmers in ten years is a reasonable assumption the way things are going. Malnutrition and protruding ribs can make one do embarrassing things.

  8. PRD April 2, 2012 at 10:03 am #

    A good friend was telling me about a retired uncle who was getting into this shale oil/gas thing as an investment adviser. I told him, based largely on what I had read here, that I thought it was a boondoggle; a way to milk people out of their money before the whole thing fell apart (which would happen not far in the future). Not long afterward, Jim posted a good overview of the situation here, and I forwarded it to this friend. No response from him. It probably scares him.
    Not long ago, he traveled across the country to attend some conference on investing, etc. My wife told his wife that we’d gotten out of the stock market. She was asked “but then how are you going to make any money when things get better?” My wife responded, “PRD doesn’t think things are going to get better.”
    That ended the conversation pretty quickly.

  9. Neon Vincent April 2, 2012 at 10:05 am #

    I see you’re back to your usual self this morning and it’s no April Fools. As for your targets, I agree with you about Kudlow, Yergin, and Romney. I think Kudlow is too much of an ideologue to be able to tell the truth about the stock market, let alone the broader economy. He’s there to convince people to buy, buy, buy! You have Yergin’s number. I’ve learned not to listen to what he says anymore. As for Romney, shouldn’t he avoid talking about dogs?
    I’ve been blogging a bit about the politicization of the price of oil over at Crazy Eddie’s Motie News this past week, with a collection of links as well as my personal observations of how Michigan is reacting to the statewide price of gas rising over $4/gallon for the fourth time in four year, along with bonus observations about how four is an unlucky number in the cultures of East Asia. I’ve also been following the unseasonably warm weather; 50 cities in the U.S. had the warmest March ever. Despite the high price of gas, the economy here is doing its best to stage a business as usual recovery. Too bad these aren’t business as usual times. Other subjects include Keith Olbermann being fired again, Earth Hour, and song lyrics. Yes, really.
    Happy Motoring–for now–from Detroit!
    http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/

  10. ASPO Article 1037 April 2, 2012 at 10:05 am #

    See the ASPO USA page.
    A North Dakota group espouses imminent US Oil Exporting Nation Status, and $2/Bbl oil. Republicans, a bit less optimistic are holding at $2.50 per…
    Other side of the stage, in Yakutsk, Russia, there has been a meeting to form a new “Oil Axis”. Look up Yakutsk/Axis Of Oil sometime.
    Dat ‘Ol Bible warns of a humungous tangle of nations to include Iran, Egypt, and Syria sometime around now. Oh, and Israel and maybe a few others. Institute for International & Strategic Studies concurs- just a coincidence.
    If the Bible gives heartburn, try Anthony Cordesman-

    Website spv.co.uk offers US Rail Map Atlas Volumes which might prove helpful to USA planners interested in supplementing existing rail lines with rebuilt abandoned rail corridor. It seems to boil down to transport as we enter Cordesman’s twilight zone of war-inflicted energy emergency.
    As much as one may fear the ignorance of the line-up seeking President Obama’s job, the newbie deserves what he is going to get, even if the rest of us may not. The Presidential family now in residence shall, hopefully, be out of harm’s way when the man with his heart in Utah steps up… Frank J. Cannon had it right way back in 1912.

  11. Smokyjoe April 2, 2012 at 10:07 am #

    I part with JHK by thinking that the downslope after Peak Oil’s global emergence will be gentle.
    Gentle, globally, that is. Here in the States, the “public will feel like it is gargling Gillette blue blades.”
    We do want to believe in miracles.
    I cannot get my head around why so many Americans who SHOULD know that oil depletion is not a “hoax foisted upon the nation by the Left” (Gingrich’s words) don’t know better.
    We are a nation of fools, in the sense that we have been fooled or are gifted, like Yergin, at fooling others. We are living in a fool’s paradise.
    Paradise lost, and soon.

  12. divelly April 2, 2012 at 10:07 am #

    When we moved from DELMARVA to NYC,
    we kept our car.First,our insurance jumped from $50/mo. to $125.Tthe mis-named Traffic Enforcement people(they have NO dealings with traffic-they solely exist to write parking tix)
    handed us on the average $100/mo in tix.One morning I went to my parked car and found the side mirror dangling from a hit and run.There was also a ticket for damaged safety equipment.
    We sold the car.Best thing we ever did.
    Using cabs,buses,the subway and rental cars,we save about $500/mo!
    Of course ,NYC is the most walkable city in the US,so I don’t know what’s to be done in the ‘burbs other than get out.

  13. wisewebwoman April 2, 2012 at 10:13 am #

    Oil Rigs way out in the ocean here, the last of the arctic ice bearing down on them rapidly.
    All seems kind of fitting. In a prestidigital kind of way.

  14. michael_in_adelaide April 2, 2012 at 10:15 am #

    The comment on hungry children in the USA above reminded me of a BBC report I saw in February:
    http://tinyurl.com/7be2stf
    Near the end a shy and embarrassed young girl describes how her family is eating rats because they have nothing else. It breaks my heart and it makes me angry that the USA can hold itself out to be the light of the world while allowing this to happen.

  15. topcog April 2, 2012 at 10:16 am #

    Great column today. I agree as to the stock market looking for ways to prop itself up and get the last remaining dribble of savings from the idiots who think it’s sustainable. I too have a giant p-u that costs $140 to fill, I do make some money with it, but reality is that it is always too little. I would be a bit uneasy trying to haul the load with a hybrid squatmobile tho. In the meantime the handpowered woodshop is doing well and expanding. Grocery prices are edging ever higher, wages ever lower, bullshit ever more unbelievable. Maybe there is really no reason to have an election as all the talking heads are morons with no clue other than to overfill their own coffers to escape like the robber barons in your blog. I’m sure they will all enjoy their own company until the masses uncover their hideaway. In the interim, the collection on wagon building is growing along with the skills. Just reread “Last Light”, and realize once again how quickly it could all happen. And how long it would take many to believe it. Enjoy your column.

  16. k-dog April 2, 2012 at 10:18 am #

    Regarding the slippery nature of human nature my understanding of the situation has reached new depth. K-DOG. I’m currently on page 221.

  17. ozone April 2, 2012 at 10:19 am #

    JHK,
    In the wind-up, you say,
    “Just add up the total tonnage of steel necessary to keep this Ponzi going and you would reach a discouraging conclusion: this thing has nowhere to go but swift and implacable contraction. The ultimate destination of “energy independence” will be a nation with no cars and trucks to run. We’ll get there, you’ll see. But that is speaking the unthinkable.”
    Keeeee-wrecked!
    Another shortage awaiting its’ turn upon the rack.
    Yeah, sell off all that extra/useless scrap metal to our industrial competitors; we’ll make more. Oh, what’s that you say? Too expensive to mine and smelt the ore? No capital? Oops.
    Yes, I’m sure TPTB are well aware of the energy predicament, but “business” now dictates that duping the herd is where the wallet-draining begins and ends. Which brings us full circle to why nobody seems to “get it”.
    To the desperate, debt-laden, distance-driving dupe in the Ram (gotta love that testosterone-laden label), Mr. Sinclair said it well:
    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”
    – Upton Sinclair

  18. DavidinLosAngeles April 2, 2012 at 10:19 am #

    The New York Times also featured an article in Sunday’s New York Times Magazine titled “The Real Oil Shock”. The gist of the article was that most people really aren’t affected by paying $4 a gallon for gas. The final paragraph? “As billions of people, throughout the world, enter the middle class in the coming decades, there will be an enormous increase in the demand for gas….But at that point, we will all probably be driving solar-powered hovercraft anyway”. The N.Y. Times, boy, you gotta love ‘em

  19. k-dog April 2, 2012 at 10:20 am #

    K-DOG

  20. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 10:23 am #

    Kudlow is engaging in sleight-of-hand, no doubt. He’s counting all that kerogen in western U.S. shale deposits as “oil”, and then adding it to the U.S. P+P reserve number for actual oil.
    The current Time magazine article on U.S. fracked oil is at least somewhat more honest, as the author freely admits that fracked oil will always be very expensive to produce, and that no matter how much of it is pumped out of the ground, the overall trend cost of oil and gasoline is only going to go up.
    Extension of the Keystone XL pipeline from Oklahoma to the Gulf Coast will further exacerbate the problem; as all that stranded Canadian tar sands oil reaches Gulf ports for shipment worldwide, the price differential between WTI and Brent crude will disappear, with the price level moving in the direction of the higher Brent price.

  21. k-dog April 2, 2012 at 10:31 am #

    I doubt you could get to a trillion barrels even with that sleight of hand. Of course one can make all the pretty maps one wants to if one is dishonest as Kudlow has clearly identified himself to be.

  22. wardoc April 2, 2012 at 10:33 am #

    No, No, NO. All wrong. We’re only a few years away from flying cars that will burn kryptonite for fuel. Don’t be so pessimistic !!!

  23. Belisarius April 2, 2012 at 10:36 am #

    Many of the politicians and media hacks are not stupid, but milk their role as PR flacks (liars) for the actual rulers. Many retire quite wealthy.
    It is obvious that exponential growth cannot be sustained on a slow growing planet. What is less knowable is when it will stop. Perhaps the rulers know, but all data released by their corporate, political, .edu and .gov minions is likely tuned to support one racket or another.

  24. canman April 2, 2012 at 10:38 am #

    Very good post Jim. Someone smarter than me once said how slow change seems to come; but once here, how fast it happens. That will be us.
    Many will look back and wonder why they “did not see” much like the Tech wreck and housing bubble.
    It all makes me kind of tired

  25. ozone April 2, 2012 at 10:38 am #

    Ouch! That kind of glittering, rose-colored, hubristic, pretend journalism ensures that bidnez as usual will blunder on unimpeded, I suppose.
    I guess it’s like “they” say: “If you can’t blind ‘em with brilliance, baffle ‘em with bullshit.”

  26. newworld April 2, 2012 at 10:42 am #

    But the delusion is bipartisan, vast swaths of the proles in either camp want one thing “MORE.”

  27. lsjogren April 2, 2012 at 10:48 am #

    Hey guys, that trillion barrels is real.
    It will provide people around the world with all the gasoline they want, at $250 per gallon.

  28. lsjogren April 2, 2012 at 10:48 am #

    By the way:
    Gingrich was right about 250 gas, he just got the decimal point off by a couple digits.

  29. upstatebob April 2, 2012 at 10:54 am #

    Our real problem is that gas is much too cheap…. corrected for inflation to, say 1960. Figuring a multiple of ten that makes it about $.40 /gal. That’s why folks are flocking back to the big guzzlers again. Big pickups are flying off the dealer lots.
    Strange that a little old 50s chevy pickup with a blue flame six
    can do the same job of hauling old mattresses from Arkansas
    to Kalyforny as a new Dodge Ram. Meanwhile, as JHK says, we
    print the money to pay for our imports. -so far, so good.

  30. k-dog April 2, 2012 at 10:57 am #

    Once the EROEI goes negative it does not matter how much there is out there or how much it costs. It would be like:
    Water, water, every where, nor any drop to drink
    But of course the idea that we have any such significant reserve is total fantasy.

  31. DeeJones April 2, 2012 at 11:01 am #

    Whats with the whole “quObama” thing anyway?
    Jims story reminds me when I lived in Nor Cal during the Iraq invasion and gas was headed up to $4.00 a gallon, and some guy was bitching about how much it cost to fill up his jacked-up F250.
    When I asked him “Why don’t you get a smaller, more fuel efficient truck?” He looked at me like I had Tourettes or something.
    I shrugged, and drove off, having filled the 10 gal tank of my Honda Civic that got 35+mpgs and not having to fill up again for two weeks.
    It all comes down to choices, and some of us make smarter ones than others.
    But hey, its all good, eh?
    Dee

  32. empirestatebuilding April 2, 2012 at 11:09 am #

    I didn’t win the Mega Millions so I am still a member of the great unwashed. I really wanted to fly away to John Galt’s Gulch and live a life of ruinous leisure.
    back to the salt mines people
    Aimlow Joe was here
    http://www.aimlow.comc

  33. salahruh April 2, 2012 at 11:10 am #

    Newbie here: Sounds like I should be hoarding gasoline or groceries instead of gold coins. Where to hide them and how to defend them then becomes a problem.

  34. lsjogren April 2, 2012 at 11:11 am #

    Hey, check this out. “World’s Top New Landmarks”
    Some prime candidates for eyesore of the month.
    http://travel.yahoo.com/ideas/world-s-top-new-landmarks.html

  35. kulturcritic* April 2, 2012 at 11:16 am #

    James – It truly is unthinkable what we continue to do to one another.
    http://kulturcritic.wordpress.com/posts/the-curriculum-of-the-west/
    kulturCritic

  36. pequiste April 2, 2012 at 11:19 am #

    Down here in sunny south Florida, you wouldn’t know that gas is now $5 a gallon at the marina. Looking at yesterday’s boat traffic on the Intracoastal Waterway, one might think that gas was more like $2 a gallon. Exquisite 20 meter yachts, convertibles, sedans and 50ft sportfish plied the waters (on a gorgeous day) endlessly. Some of those babies easily take on 500 gallons or more. Smaller open fishing boats of 20-30 ft were everywhere with multiple, monster outboards of 225hp plus on the transom: you know even with those vessels (that mere mortals can afford,) it was a pricey fill up. How will the next oil price mania, caused by perhaps, a little rumble in Iran, for example, going to make the motor-boating public feel about a $500.00 fill up for a days fishing? I myself are getting ready for the “long Emergency” with a 30 year old sailboat on a trailer. With the 9.9 hp and a decent wind I could go all day and maybe use four gallons. Affordable even for a “wasteproduct of hypercapitalism” like myself. With the exception of government we will likely be going back to oar power after this whole “big slide” plays out. Thanks JHK, I need some straight rum now.

  37. ozone April 2, 2012 at 11:21 am #

    “Strange that a little old 50s chevy pickup with a blue flame six
    can do the same job of hauling old mattresses from Arkansas
    to Kalyforny as a new Dodge Ram. Meanwhile, as JHK says, we
    print the money to pay for our imports. -so far, so good.” -US Bob
    That’s right; and it all goes along quite swimmingly until somebody says, “Heeeeeeey… wait just a gol-durn minute here.” Soon we’ll see who can be bought, and who might place some value in their sovereignty.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30955.htm
    (Now, you’ll notice that this is one of those commentaries that insists that gold is the one-and-only real store of value. I don’t totally agree, but the stuff IS rare and portable; and the Chinese are collecting a large mountain of the stuff. He makes his point about the illusive value of fiat currencies and the muscle behind it, regardless.)

  38. Al Klein April 2, 2012 at 11:23 am #

    Ahhh, all the complaining on this site. The key to getting out of our predicament is productivity! Got to have more productivity. And where have we seen the greatest productivity? In the financial sector, of course. Behold all the financial “products” they’ve created over the past decade! I means SIVs and CDOs and all the other alphabet soups. Wow! Such prowess. Such leadership. So I don’t want to read any more compaints from you yoyos who weren’t smart enough to get into the financial sector. If you had done that, maybe you too could be enjoying the coming summer in your home out in the Hamptons rather than complaining about $100+ fillups.

  39. Onthego April 2, 2012 at 11:24 am #

    Here in New York we are “blessed” with a Governor who can’t wait to sell out the people of the state to the Oil and Gas crowd and allow hydro-fracking so he can get his hands on all that “free” campaign money for his 2016 bid for the White House. The rural parts of the state are just cash cows to old Andy. (Dick Cheney isn’t the only politician than needs a new heart.)
    One quarter of the world’s fresh water flows through New York State, and he’ll throw all that liquid gold away for the green kind that Big Oil and Gas will throw at him to get their fracking hands on our patrimony, just so they can make a killing selling it to the Chinese.
    History might just repeat itself. Al Gore lost his home state in 2000. And this time I don’t think the Supremes will make Andy a winner.

  40. ozone April 2, 2012 at 11:24 am #

    “Whats with the whole “quObama” thing anyway?” -D
    Dee,
    I believe that would be K-dog’s shorthand for “STATUS quObama”, which is succinct and nicely accurate. ;o)

  41. ccm989 April 2, 2012 at 11:30 am #

    Peak Oil is nothing to fear. We’ve been living in it for a couple of years now. All the cheap, sweet, light crude is gone. That’s why our gas is now coming from crap oil — Canadian Tar Sands (which require expensive processing to use) and ocean bottom a/k/a deepwater drilling (horribly expensive to extract). This alone is helping gas prices skyrocket.
    So start investigating alternate sources of clean, renewable energy you can install yourself. Demand more public transportation be available. Trains can be pulled across country by steam engines fueled with coal. There are many, many solutions out there. For many centuries, people lived without petroleum. We can learn to get along without it and the world will not perish either.

  42. Steve M. April 2, 2012 at 11:31 am #

    Meanwhile, black Americans are on the edge of rebellion over the Trayvon Martin case (and who cna blame them?) while the Supreme Court is prepared to strike down the only attmept at health care reform in the past century that ever got anywhere. Again – Obama is Luo for Hindenburg, and you all know who succeeded that German president.

  43. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 11:38 am #

    So, Isjogren, the economists are right then. Oil will always be available at some price. :-)

  44. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 11:43 am #

    ccm989, you sound like a follower of John Michael Greer (Green Wizard/alternative-energy-you-can-install-yourself guru).

  45. ozone April 2, 2012 at 11:45 am #

    Steve,
    Respectfully, I really don’t think it’s necessary to point out that first issue at this juncture; we’ll be getting a snoot-full of it from the gum’mint distractionary agent provocateurs shortly.
    (Believe me, you’ll see!)

  46. MDG April 2, 2012 at 11:49 am #

    Has anyone else noticed all the stories lately about how the USA is going to be energy independent thanks to our allegedly enormous supply of natural gas (trapped in shale rock, but obtainable now through frakking)?
    Last week in the “Washington Post,” Fareed Zakaria called this a global energy game changer. In today’s “Washington Post,” the execrable Robert J. Samuelson echoed the them that America is poised to become energy independent thanks to natural gas.
    And I’ve was thinking at I read them, what would JHK say about all this? I appreciated today’s column, but I hope Jim, if you’re reading this letter, that you devout another column to this, because on the one hand it sounds too good to be true, and on the other hand, if true, it sounds too horrible, given the global warming implications.

  47. anti soak April 2, 2012 at 11:50 am #

    I clicked and saw the Mexicans so I stopped watching the link.
    Amazing where theres ebt/foodstamps/school lunch programs. [and now school breakfast and dinner programs].
    Amazing that BHO has not been run out of office.
    Weve 1 in 6/ on EBT. Most black men are unemployed
    [I assume they want to work].
    Michelle Obama just jetted to Vegas while BHO took his 93? golf day!
    Someone reports the Mexican kids on the school lunch
    program ‘All have 400$[?] Iphones, Ipads, etc].
    The ‘new’ poverty.
    Only in white Christian countries.

  48. k-dog April 2, 2012 at 11:51 am #

    The quObama thing is because the man who campaigned on change we can believe in turns out to have been placed in office by the most well orchestrated PR campaign in history. To a careful listener even his acceptance speech showed the beginnings of the betrayal to come. I was listening to an old podcast recently with several progressive speakers who were drunk with enthusiasm of the change to come. It was just after his election. One said that we finally have “A rocket Scientist in the White House”. Turns out the man doesn’t understand science at all and may be mathematically challenged.
    A housing development can be named ‘Pheasant Ridge’ but the act of building the development displaces all the pheasants. The election of Obama has displaced any hope of change in the same way. In the face of evidence to the contrary people want so badly to believe in him that most still believe he is working for change but doing it behind the scenes. Such a belief is totally irrational but we want to believe in him so badly we choose stupidity. People wanted change so badly they believed him and gave him their votes without really looking at the man and who he really was.
    Obama was placed in office by Wall Street and we the people bought his deception hook line and sinker. We were told what PR focus groups had determined would sell and it turned out to be ‘change’.
    So:
    Status quo => quObama
    Status quo means avoiding change at all cost. The powers that be like power and want to retain it. The powers that be (0.1%) don’t want to share power or give it up and they will absolutely destroy society in order to keep it. We are not of their tribe so they care nothing of us. Those in power think they are special as we all do unless we become enlightened. That’s human nature.
    K-Dog for President I’m for change and I mean it.
    Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky knew he was bullshit from the git go, as did I.

  49. anti soak April 2, 2012 at 11:52 am #

    Theres a site devoted solely to the horrors of
    the NY Times.’CRIMES OF THE TIMES’ Blog.

  50. ozone April 2, 2012 at 11:52 am #

    ….And so it begins.
    See ya; have fun!

  51. MDG April 2, 2012 at 11:52 am #

    Ah, Jeebus. I apologize for all the errors in that letter.

  52. anti soak April 2, 2012 at 11:55 am #

    Yes theres the ‘Psychology of Previous Investment’
    or Denial of ‘diminishing returns’.
    And some with lung cancer keep smoking.

  53. Dirk April 2, 2012 at 11:58 am #

    Precisely PRD. It is simply unimaginable to the 99% that the American way of life as we know it merely looks alive, while in fact it is already DOA. I run into the ‘end of the conversation’ issue all…the…time. Unless you tow the company line that the recovery is under way and we are returning to ‘growth’, nobody wants to hear it. It just absolutely amazes and baffles me how and what is holding this CF ‘recovery’ up! Well..the bitter fact is….nothing. Nothing at all is holding it up but the faith of the stupid consumer dolts who continue to piss away money in the absurd belief that they will garner any ‘return’ of consequence: “Siddown pigeon…you put yer money in when we tell ya, ya take it out when we tell ya”.
    I am reminded of a coworker who spent his weekend mowing his five acres of America. I asked him why he just didn’t let it grow up to meadow; it is a much more diverse habitat than a mowed sterile expanse. Eyes blinking, he responded that his wife liked everything neat and tidy. Uh huh. Then I asked what he was going to do when there was no more oil to run his mower? Eyes blinking. He had no answer. The next day he proudly reported that he read about a guy who was going to make oil from grass clippings! Problem solved, he thought. Well I couldn’t leave it alone, so I pressed him further. So you are going to mow your lawn and use the clippings to make more oil so you can mow your lawn? Did that seem sustainable to him? He proudly said yes. Uh huh, So, I asked him if he was familiar with the 90/10 principle; that for every step in an energy or food chain only 10 per cent is passed on, the other 90 per cent is lost to heat, friction and waste. Eyes blinking. no response. That is what we are up against.

  54. anti soak April 2, 2012 at 11:59 am #

    Yes, Fareed also pollutes Time /Newsweek.
    Hes a creep and Muslim as well.
    But one of those 2 mags had the cover
    ‘IS USA ISLAMOPHOBIC’!!!!!!!!!! [DUH]

  55. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 12:00 pm #

    So, MDG, for the U.S. to become energy independent based on natural gas, that would mean, what? Most autos and trucks would have to run on CNG. I suspect that any serious attempt to do so would very quickly drawn down those fracked natural gas reserves, and the price of it would skyrocket. So, the U.S. would then have to pay high oil, gasoline, AND natural gas prices. Lovely.
    Meanwhile, atmospheric CO2 would continue chugging along in an upward direction.

  56. Kyooshtik April 2, 2012 at 12:01 pm #

    Hey Dog, I went to your site and see that you are discussing a book titled “To Smart for Our Own Good.” Is that title correct or should it be “Too Smart…?” I realize a case could be made for “To” if the kind of “smart” being referred to is “endure pain” but if that is the case you need to explain it. I found several other typing errors in your commentary as well. As a presidential candidate you need to be more careful.

  57. anti soak April 2, 2012 at 12:03 pm #

    In LaLa land theres ‘BlueBird Liquor’. Online was a
    picture of 2 smiling blacks. I assumed they had won Lottery $ as they looked overjoyed.
    NO! They were happy because after 3 hours in line they were able to get into the store to buy a ticket! 3 hours to get into BB liquor.
    Ya see at the store someone had won 130 million dollars and there have been other winners.
    THE NEW CARGO CULT. Wait 3 hours to buy a lotto ticket.

  58. Kryo April 2, 2012 at 12:07 pm #

    Ah, if the bullshit and hot air from the likes of Yergin, Kudlow, et al, could be collected and used for fuel, we’d have enough to power our fantasy machine for centuries.

  59. k-dog April 2, 2012 at 12:08 pm #

    Thanks I’ll fix it. You’re quite right.

  60. k-dog April 2, 2012 at 12:12 pm #

    Thanks I fixed it. You’re quite right.

  61. k-dog April 2, 2012 at 12:16 pm #

    Your point is taken but is the bar really that high?

  62. orbit7er April 2, 2012 at 12:20 pm #

    As Mike Whitney pointed out the major new credit is for subprime auto loans which were exempted due to pressure from the Auto Addiction Lobby from the new
    financial regulations, weak as they are.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/03/14/subprime-at-the-car-lot/

    I suspect there will be a lot of these gas-guzzlers repossessed with no buyers in sight.

  63. mila59 April 2, 2012 at 12:24 pm #

    That’s not made up. It’s a fairly common word, or at least it was, until the 21st century of lost literary ability.

  64. asoka. April 2, 2012 at 12:25 pm #

    Jim,
    Marvelous Monday metaphors. Wonderful writing. I am amazed and appreciative of your reliable Monday morning offerings.
    I have lived in countries where electricity was rationed and it works out well. So, when you say:

    Shale oil production is approaching half a million barrels a day. That’s about 45 minutes of daily go-power. It might go up to an hour-and-a-half…

    that seems doable.
    An hour from shale. An hour from coal. An hour from natgas. An hour from petroleum. An hour from solar. An hour from wind. Seems we could easily do six hours a day (or night).
    I got along fine on four hours a day in South America. Quality of life actually improves. You organize time better. You rediscover the pleasure of reading books, talking to people, etc.

  65. Kyooshtik April 2, 2012 at 12:28 pm #

    …if one is dishonest as Kudlow has clearly identified himself to be.
    ===========
    I don’t know if dishonest is the right word but leave it to Jim to come up with the perfect descriptor, “popinjay.” I would have bet serious money that Larry was gay but I googled his bio and found he is/was a thrice married coke head. See below:
    Kudlow converted to Catholicism and entered a twelve-step program to deal with his addictions to cocaine and alcohol in the mid-1990s. Kudlow was persuaded to convert to Catholicism by Father C. John McCloskey III.[18]
    Kudlow has been married three times, most recently in 1986 to Judith Pond. Kudlow lives in Redding in Fairfield County in southwestern Connecticut. His hobbies include tennis and golf[citation needed]. He had hip replacement surgery in mid July 2005.[citation needed]

  66. Rabblechat April 2, 2012 at 12:29 pm #

    “Meanwhile, black Americans are on the edge of rebellion over the Trayvon Martin case (and who cna blame them?)”
    Who can blame them? How about anyone that believes we are better off living in a society that operates under the rule of law instead of mob rule?
    From what I have read there is enough evidence to suggest that Trayvon initiated the physical confrontation. If that turns out to be true then Zimmerman could have been justified in using deadly force.
    This is far from a clear case of racism as the media wants to portray it. Instead of fanning the flames we should be encouraging those that wish to incite violence to take a look at the facts.

  67. MDG April 2, 2012 at 12:34 pm #

    What the hell does Fareed Zakaria’s religion have to do with this, Antisoak?

  68. Cavepainter April 2, 2012 at 12:36 pm #

    And we keep growing, and growing, and growing our population with outrageous immigration and refugee ceilings. Worse, most come with cultural edicts of fertilizing every egg to come down a woman’s fllopian tube. Oh, I forgot; techno-triuphalism will take care of all such issues!

  69. MDG April 2, 2012 at 12:36 pm #

    Kaiho,
    Thanks. Aside from the frakking environmental problems themselves, I’m even more concerned about natural gas’ contribution to Global Warming. I hope that you and others more knowledgeable on the topic can write more about it.

  70. Rabblechat April 2, 2012 at 12:40 pm #

    prestidigitate -To perform magic with the hands or using sleight of hand.

  71. jwhands4u April 2, 2012 at 12:43 pm #

    Had recently heard that the Exxon Valdez was sold for scrap. Apparently steel is getting more expensive to process. All those shiny new V8’s will do fine until theres no fuel to recycle them with. Ah such bittersweet endings!

  72. Buck Stud April 2, 2012 at 12:50 pm #

    People rationalize the continual purchase of gasoline for gas guzzlers (or not) in some of the following ways:
    *Avoid the five dollar cup of Starbucks and settle for a 7/11 special instead.
    *Avoid the 7/11 special and bring their own from home.
    *Begin cutting back of the amount of coffee they drink and bring from home.
    *Begin cutting back on the amount of coffee they buy.
    Eventually, a dog-chasing-its-own-tail dynamic is in effect; peripheral multipliers begin to divide themselves into economic black holes as gas prices rise. Although consumer demand for gasoline remains somewhat unaffected in the initial stages – people have to get to work after all – demand for other products begins to wane. Pretty soon the Starbucks and grocery store employee have lost their jobs and they no longer have a need to drive to work, or to their favorite place to spend disposable income.
    It’s an economic death spiral.

  73. dmech April 2, 2012 at 12:53 pm #

    Bought a 2012 Honda Civic that runs on compressed nat gas only, and I love it, probably wouldn’t have bought it if not for reading jhk for years. fueling stations are not a problem for Utah for the most part, You do have to plan fuel stops and detours could be a problem on long trips. went from slc to st. george (300 miles) for $12.00 and only one stop in between. could go to Los Angeles, but forget about Pheonix or Denver. Would like more talk of nat gas on this site, One thing that suprised me that I learned lately is that our local bus company (UTA) doesn’t have any buses that run on nat gas, diesel only, but I’m thankfull that the garbage companies have the foresight to be adding nat gas trucks to their fleets, could get stinky during a diesel fuel shortage.

  74. welles April 2, 2012 at 12:55 pm #

    you really are a clown if you don’t even bother
    to check if the word exists b4 disparaging jhk.
    jeezis, ever tried google?

  75. turkle April 2, 2012 at 12:57 pm #

    All we have to worry about is filling up the cars with some kind of Go Juice. Forget climate change, pollution, nuclear proliferation and contamination, desertification, overpopulation, food shortages, political revolutions, the gigantic island of plastic in the Pacific, rising oceans, melting glaciers, the financial Ponzi scheme that is the world economy, austerity, and all that irrelevant business. As long as ‘Mericans can fill up the tank and drive to the Quick E Mart, ALL IS WELL!
    anti soak, you seem particularly vociferous today, even for you. Something bad happen over the weekend?

  76. turkle April 2, 2012 at 12:58 pm #

    How come all your rationalizations involve coffee? I’m not criticizing, just wondering. :)

  77. turkle April 2, 2012 at 12:59 pm #

    You can always count on soaky making irrelevant, fearmongering comments about other people’s race and religion. Anyone who isn’t like him is a bugaboo. He’s a lil scaredy cat, poor thing. It is a real wonder he even gets out of bed in the morning.

  78. malthus April 2, 2012 at 1:00 pm #

    Kudlow is a complete mutant greedhead idiot. Why anyone listens to that balding money grubbing fruitcake just tells us how many idiots occupy this country.

  79. welles April 2, 2012 at 1:01 pm #

    news for all the doomsday followers here….
    jeesus ain’t coming back…
    world isn’t ending in 2012…
    we will never stop using cars, even if oil runs
    out (keep waiting for that btw).
    why? …there’s too much profit in keeping people
    moving….when there’s trillions to be made in giving people mobility, someone is working on satisfying that need, and will offer it.
    what…like all of a sudden everyone will just accept that they can’t drive anymore?
    wake up doozleheads…the world is about solving problems when there’s LOTS of money (=freedom) to be made. money’s been known to excite/motivate/galvanize people/companies into action….
    like you don’t go the extra mile when you know there’s a nice payday coming to you if you do?
    of course you do…
    the world goes FORWARD, not jhk-mule-and-60-acres backwards. wake up and smell reality.
    peace peaceniks

  80. turkle April 2, 2012 at 1:02 pm #

    “Hes a creep and Muslim as well.”
    Oh, but to your pea-sized brain, isn’t that completely redundant?

  81. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 1:02 pm #

    MDG,
    As far as global warming goes, 500 ppm CO2 by 2100 is already baked in the cake. After the failure of Copenhagen 2009, world leaders committed themselves to a carbon-intensive strategy for powering the world economy. The only way to bring global warming under a measure of control would be a firm commitment to leave all this expensive-to-produce oil and nat gas in the ground, but the world-wide trend is in exactly the opposite direction.

  82. bproman April 2, 2012 at 1:05 pm #

    How long will they ” Keep on Truckin’ ? ”

  83. orbit7er April 2, 2012 at 1:05 pm #

    Actually as Jim Kunstler has pointed out for years there is another option to get around without burning 4-5-6- $7 gasoline in autos. Use Green Transit!

    For myself with Bush Jr’s income tax rebate I bought myself a folding bike which is allowed on all NYC area trains. (and buses in theory although where would you put it without a bike rack???)
    My community fought the 40% train cuts to our town initiated by neo-liberal Gov Corzine in 2008 and restored enough of our trains that I can walk to my train station. Total monthly cost for my commute to work? Only $100 per month after the pretax transit benefit! Which I can also use to ride the train 24×7 which I do whenever possible.

    When are Americans going to insist we need to just RUN THE TRAINS we already have??!!

    As I have pointed out before, the US has a lot more potential for Green transit than the Auto Addiction pushers ever let us know – a Brookings study May, 2011 found that 70% of working age Americans in 100 US Metro areas ALREADY live only 3/4ths mile from a Transit stop. However due to the lack of service only 30% can get to a job in less than 90 minutes and that is during peak service hours.

    See http://www.brookings.edu/reports/2011/0512_jobs_and_transit.aspx

    for details…

  84. Buck Stud April 2, 2012 at 1:06 pm #

    I suppose I have been cut off too many times by aggressive drivers juiced up on java. But it could be anything. Instead of driving to the gym, people might buy their own piece of exercise equipment to work out on at home, saving both gas and gym dues.
    As an aside, have you seen the price of automobile tires as a result of oil prices – ouch!

  85. ninaXYZ April 2, 2012 at 1:08 pm #

    Unthinkable: Should the desperation provoke monopolizing Iran, the air and seacraft alone could bring this baby to its knees faster than any natural devolution would.

  86. azgog April 2, 2012 at 1:08 pm #

    For those able to invest in an alternative you have a narrow window of opportunity to equip yourself with a very different transportation mode. A relatively small number of electric cars are now available for lease or purchase. A few more will become available before the overall energy/capital collapse precludes further progress.
    The Nissan Leaf and Mitsubishi MIEV are almost totally independent of the oil and gas industry (but only on the user end). Check out the myleaf forum for many happy stories from people paying less than 4 cents per mile instead of 20+ and rising rapidly. Oh, and no oil (again) changes, mufflers, timing belts, valve adjustments, etc. Some of these people have also invested in PV for their homes and are now running both house and car for next to nothing. Their return on investment can be calculated as around 14% and rising as gas and electric rates continue to increase. Quite an improvement over the Bank or the Stock market and the risk factor is like night/day.
    One hundred mile range is pretty good and will look even better as gas goes to $5, then $8, then unavailable. Electricity will be available longer than gas and can be produced from a whole range of domestic resources. Want to go further? Take the train and bring along an Ebike, now also available for a limited time only.

  87. Kyooshtik April 2, 2012 at 1:08 pm #

    but is the bar really that high?
    ==============
    No, but it desperately needs raising.

  88. welles April 2, 2012 at 1:13 pm #

    I’m even more concerned about natural gas’ contribution to Global Warming
    stop phreaking wurrying about grobar warming, as they say in china, plant a damn tree or something, they love to soak up the co2 you get all flustered about.
    ok the world’s getting hotter, so it’s gotten hotter and colder and colder and not-so-hot etc.
    ad nauseum in the past…and then a meteor took out
    90% of all life forms on the planet 65 million years ago (when did humans eradicate 90% of life on the planet?)…and yet here we are with lots of forest, animals etc, everything coming back nicely (yes it has gotten better since the pollution halcyon of the 1960s/70s).
    man i am so tyred of troglodyte anti-progress types. yes we are using up oil, and yes there are lots and lots of land usage problems, etc.
    and yes there are solutions to them. both sides of the equation – problem/solution – are developing in tandem. it’s not a zerosum paradigm, e.g. we have 100 barrels of oil and that’s being used up and when it is, bam! game over.
    just grow plants and buy local shyte and treat your family and neighbors right and carpool and make a compost heap. nature’s a lot stronger than you’re feeble mental gyrations on how the world’s going to hell in a handbasket.
    bet you haven’t planted anything in years now have you?
    get with it.
    peace peaceniks

  89. orbit7er April 2, 2012 at 1:24 pm #

    And just as bad, neoliberal Gov Cuomo refused to even ask for a Millionaire’s Tax and is bragging about how for the 2nd year in a row, by colluding with Teabag Republicans, he has passed a budget on time keeping the MTA on life support instead of expansion.

    Meanwhile, despite a local uprising for SOME form of Green public transit on the proposed $5 Billion new Tappan Zee bridge instead of just 2 new highway lanes, Cuomo is also ramming through a highway Auto -addiction only new Tappan Zee bridge with support from the Obama administration.

    http://www.tstc.org/press/2012/033012_Tappan_Zee_Comments_Full.pdf

  90. asoka. April 2, 2012 at 1:24 pm #

    Hi Welles! How’s things down in Brazil?
    Brazil is going to be the honored country/invited country at this year’s International Book Fair in Bogota, Colombia, later this month.
    Last year I was watching the USA National Book Fair on C-Span and the announcer proudly announced that the Book Fair had expanded to two days.
    The annual International Book Fair in Bogota is two weeks long and this year there are 400 cultural events planned during those two weeks. There will be 400 authors from all over the world and dozens of forums and “conversations,” i.e. interdisciplinary meetings with the public.
    At these events the public interacts with authors of high literary quality of different nationalities, as well as engaging in conversations with historians, philosophers, journalists, etc. at public forums.
    Thousands of people line up at the gates of the convention center and pay to get in and have an opportunity to exchange ideas with leading international authors they have read.
    The USA is a cultural wasteland compared to South America. Bogota is not called the “Athens of South America” for nothing.
    Both Colombia and the USA have their problems with drugs, crime, poverty, etc., but Colombia has the advantage when it comes to cultural and intellectual life. Ni hablar de rumbear!

  91. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 1:28 pm #

    As I said to MDG, the world’s leaders have committed themselves to a carbon-intensive strategy for powering the world’s economy to 2100. It’s baked in the cake.

  92. Buck Stud April 2, 2012 at 1:28 pm #

    Welles,
    You make some good points but you come off pretty cavalier at the same time and I’ll tell you why I think so.
    You don’t acknowledge the potential for catastrophe in the lag time between conceiving an idea/solution and actualizing it.
    And let’s face it, those bright enough to actually realize a solution to the oil issue are probably bright enough to realize there was a problem coming down the road long ago. Now I recall Jimmy Carter mentioning this issue way back in the late 70s and still no real viable solution is available despite, as you assert, the incredible profits to be made.
    Can you point to something more concrete than Okie optimism?

  93. bearfoot April 2, 2012 at 1:36 pm #

    prestidigitate to perform a bit of MAGIC

  94. Kyooshtik April 2, 2012 at 1:37 pm #

    Bogota is not called the “Athens of South America” for nothing.
    ===========
    Whoever (whomever?) said Bogota is the “Athens of South America” must have been thinking of an Athens of long long ago because Athens today is an effed-up shithole.

  95. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 1:48 pm #

    The Nissan Leaf and Mitsubishi MIEV are almost totally independent of the oil and gas industry (but only on the user end). Check out the myleaf forum for many happy stories from people paying less than 4 cents per mile instead of 20+ and rising rapidly.
    That 4 cents per mile for the Nissan Leaf is, of course, based on current electricity prices. As oil and gas goes up, that price will go up as well. Still, a Nissan Leaf can be a good option for some people.
    For simple commuting, though, it’s hard to beat a Vespa scooter or Honda 250cc motorcycle (70-90 mpg).
    Always wear your helmet.

  96. turkle April 2, 2012 at 1:55 pm #

    Appreciate your curmudgeonly optimism, welles. Though I take issue with the idea that there are man-made “solutions” to all of the man-made “problems” which are out there. To put it bluntly, there is no way that you could know this with any confidence. Only time will tell, and berating people to compost and carpool ain’t going to cut it. Whether or not there are workable solutions that can be implemented is highly sensitive to the particular parameters of any given problem. Read “The Ingenuity Gap” on this matter (fascinating book).
    And if you take the somewhat long view, say a couple hundred years, I don’t see how you look at the mess we’ve already made of the planet in
    the rather historically short period of industrialization and determine that we’ll muddle through just fine going forward, especially considering that current population levels are not
    sustainable (not even close really). From what I see, especially regarding the so-called “externalities” like pollution and global
    warming, we’re going in exactly the opposite (and wrong) direction.
    Does all that mean that the world will end? No, probably not. I imagine humans will be around for some time. However, if it went that way, Nature doesn’t care. Planets abundant in water with a breathable atmosphere that can support life are not a statistically favored configuration. Most of the universe is a
    barren, lifeless wasteland, and if that’s what the earth gets turned into via our civilization, that would be fine and dandy as far as
    Nature is concerned.

  97. lancemfoster April 2, 2012 at 1:57 pm #

    It’s always been that way, Jim.
    I live in Montana as you know. Montana has always been a place of geologically-based scams.
    You know about “salting” a mine to convince investors of a really hot property right? But it is just a sham, the real money to be made isn’t the gold at all, it’s bilking investors and then absconding with the cashbox.
    So these oil guys are really just verbally “salting” the oil fields, convincing investors to keep pumping in money.
    In geological ventures (mining, energy, etc.) the bonanza strike is the first wave. Then improvements in technology and surges in market prices keep things going. But at the end, it’s all salting the mine.

  98. MDG April 2, 2012 at 2:01 pm #

    Welles,
    Regarding your comments on global warming: thank you for providing today’s comic relief.

  99. Vlad Krandz April 2, 2012 at 2:12 pm #

    NBC admits that they doctored the George Zimmerman tape. The dipatcher asked him the race -he didn’t just say a Black up to no good. They are “shocked” and promise “an internal investigation”. Now you see Turk, normal people are concerned when the Media starts making shit up. Pea Brains like you don’t even understand what all the fuss is about.

  100. Vlad Krandz April 2, 2012 at 2:14 pm #

    Stay strong Welles. Thank you for standing up against the Global Terror of the Man Made Global Warming Cult. They admit now they want to lock up “deniers” and that all people should be forced to live in cities – except for the Elite no doubt.

  101. turkle April 2, 2012 at 2:18 pm #

    Right, Vlad. The glaciers aren’t melting and neither is the permafrost. The ocean levels will not rise. Global average temperatures are not going up. All 99% of climate scientists who agree on this issue are part of a global conspiracy that wants to make you live in an urban slum. That’s because it is so easy to get scientists to agree on an issue with 90%+ consensus. You must know this, being such a well-connected insider.

  102. turkle April 2, 2012 at 2:23 pm #

    What I understand is that you’re defending some trigger-happy, self-appointed vigilante shlub who decided that a kid in a hoodie going home with a bag of Skittles needed to be gunned down for no good reason, other than that he “looked suspicious.” Do I have that right? Fill me in on the details, because I assume you’ve got all of them, like usual, unlike the rest of us blind, uninformed loony liberals.
    Or have you stumbled upon yet another one of your vast Left Wing conspiracies?
    And, BTW, what does this topic have to do with anything we’ve been talking about here, anyways?

  103. turkle April 2, 2012 at 2:24 pm #

    “NBC admits that they doctored the George Zimmerman tape.”
    *shrugs*
    Vlad doctors posts on kunstler.com every week.

  104. turkle April 2, 2012 at 2:27 pm #

    “normal people are concerned when the Media starts making s*** up”
    I think that’s quite a stretch to identify yourself with “normal people”, Vladski.

  105. turkle April 2, 2012 at 2:29 pm #

    Good to see that Vlad has showed up again for his weekly whupping. Too bad he never admits defeat, like the Black Knight from Monty Python.
    “Come back here. I’ll bite your knees off!”

  106. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 2:33 pm #

    JHK: Thanks to all readers for sending many kind and thoughtful letters about cholesterol, diet, statins, doctors, and the medical racket in response to my two previous blogs on those subjects.
    South Beach Diet, JHK. It really works. And without organ meats of any kind. :-)
    Controlled carb. Not low carb.

  107. azgog April 2, 2012 at 2:34 pm #

    True, but the present 5-1 cost ratio will continue and probably improve as gas prices go up faster than electrons. Plus I can make my own electricity but I can’t make my own gas, at least not easily.
    Scooters are great – my Chinese Honda clone is coming out of winter storage today. Big savings on parking, too. In town I can park for free on the sidewalk, as long as it is behind the property line (entry and window alcoves of large buildings). Helmets, flags and rugged clothing are musts.

  108. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 2:35 pm #

    Vlad, you’re nuts. You’re off your rocker.
    Now, please be so kind as to eat every single one of those little cubes of tofu in your thrice-daily portions of miso soup.
    Japanese people are counting on you to stick with the program.

  109. turkle April 2, 2012 at 2:36 pm #

    Global warming is happening. There is no doubt about it, though because some areas getting warmer causes others to get colder, at least temporarily, the effects are rather a bit more complicated than most laymen can understand.
    But to say that some consensus has been reached on what should be done about it is laughable. Science is generally descriptive and not prescriptive. The solutions fall under the realm of politics.
    Me, I make no prescriptions, because I believe it is futile to do so. Even if some countries adhere to agreements to control global warming, many others won’t, including the important ones like China and India, which basically can’t throttle their carbon emissions without torpedoing their developing economies. How many new coal-powered power stations is China bringing online every WEEK? It is a basic “tragedy of the commons” situation, where one more sheep is equivalent to X amount of additional carbon emissions. And since the commons is actually the earth’s atmosphere, there’s no good way to control who does what to it.
    So I’m not going to go tell anyone to go live in an urban area because of Global Warming. Nor would I say that the “deniers” should be locked up. I haven’t actually heard many people arguing for either of those positions (actually never heard ANYONE who believed in GW saying either of these things), so I’m not sure where anyone would get the idea that those who know Global Warming is happening have much of any overlap with those two ideas.
    So Do What Thou Wilt, Vlad. I ain’t gonna stop you.

  110. Widespreadpanic7 April 2, 2012 at 2:40 pm #

    Not to worry; A talking head on CNBC just this morning stated that we (the USA) are in the strongest economy in the past 50 years.
    The future is bright, the outlook is positive! Forget about all the stuff that has happened since 2008! All problems have been solved, all fears have been allayed!
    –WSP7

  111. turkle April 2, 2012 at 2:40 pm #

    “Vlad, you’re nuts. You’re off your rocker.”
    Oh, gee, ya think?!

  112. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 2:44 pm #

    Interesting article by Bill McKibben:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/feb/07/why-energy-industry-so-invested-climate-denail
    The most striking part is the photo of the Western Hemisphere in January 2012. A lot of change since 1972…

  113. turkle April 2, 2012 at 2:57 pm #

    Vlad Krantz is the “black sheep” of CFN, though somehow, given his views on race, I think he would take offense to that analogy.

  114. delickwent April 2, 2012 at 2:59 pm #

    “Again – Obama is Luo for Hindenburg, and you all know who succeeded that German president.”
    Ummmm……Lakehurst?

  115. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 3:02 pm #

    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.” – Upton Sinclair
    McKibben’s article makes abundantly clear that, for the fossil fuel companies themselves, their denial is a classic example of the above quote in action.

  116. anti soak April 2, 2012 at 3:07 pm #

    Bill Clintons talking about the case’. I assume in hopes the spin will favor BHO.
    Odd since theres talk [obama files.com] That Obamas
    people engaged in voter fraud against Hillary!

  117. anti soak April 2, 2012 at 3:09 pm #

    I saw a Blog recently that happily declared:
    DOW WAY UP SINCE OBAMA ELECTED!!! WOW O WOW.

  118. Kyooshtik April 2, 2012 at 3:09 pm #

    For simple commuting, though, it’s hard to beat a Vespa scooter or Honda 250cc motorcycle (70-90 mpg).
    ===========
    Yeah, weather permitting.

  119. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 3:09 pm #

    It’s also important to remember that, now that both China and India are beginning to get real control on their sulfur dioxide/trioxide emissions, global warming is likely to quickly get much worse. As the cooling effect of sulfur is removed, global temperature should jump sharply.
    Something similar happened when North America and Western Europe successfully scrubbed sulfur from power plant and auto emissions in the 1970’s-1980’s.

  120. anti soak April 2, 2012 at 3:13 pm #

    Beliefs [religion] make all the difference, in some cases.
    Does that answer yr question?
    And do you believe in hell? You used the word?

  121. RanchLady April 2, 2012 at 3:13 pm #

    Years ago, we stopped voting for anyone associated with the two major parties, learned how to take care of ourselves with herbs and supplements and other natural methods, then moved out of suburbia onto very rural property(four years ago), stocked food and fuel, learned to garden (poorly so far), invested in solar, wind and wells on our property, acquired the means to defend above, got out of the banks, got some of the yellow stuff, use cash when possible, support smaller growers, got a gas efficient car to use when we don’t have to use the gas guzzling truck.
    We are older, and we have worked our arses off. Still we worry that when the shtf we have serious vulnerabilities e.g. inadequate skills to handle possible power equipment breakdowns, and insufficient personnel for effective defense. What is very satisfying to us is that when the storm hits, we won’t be sitting there, having done nothing. And we had big miracles along the way- once we started to take very committed action, a benign power seemed to help us along.
    Do what you can every day. Take action of some kind in the right direction. That’s all anyone can do and it adds up.

  122. WestCoast April 2, 2012 at 3:15 pm #

    To all the guys with gas guzzling trucks with big engines…do you know that you have the ideal vehicle to convert to scrap wood as your fuel source?
    Wood Gas, a friend lent me his Mother Earth News. In it an article with details about converting your truck to wood gas.
    Here’s a link someone sent me:
    http://www.motherearthnews.com/energy-matters/84-mph-wood-gas-truck-zb0z11zroc.aspx

  123. anti soak April 2, 2012 at 3:15 pm #

    Yes, here in West LA area Yoga is BIG! I wonder why these folks keep going to classes, year after year.
    One told me ‘ I get a better workout’!
    Well if s/he walked that hour they drove to class that would be quite a workout.
    Did you mention something about the Grateful Dead?
    friends of mine had worked for them long ago.

  124. turkle April 2, 2012 at 3:46 pm #

    So I know this might come as a shock to you soaky, but some people like to go out and interact socially with others, including in their yoga and exercise classes. Not everyone is content to sit in their apartment day after day, trolling the internet with grammatically questionable postings to CFN.
    I guess some of the yoga types probably get all preachy about being “green” and so forth, even though they drive to class, but that’s just Americans for you. We’re generally a bunch of navel-gazing hypocrites.

  125. turkle April 2, 2012 at 3:50 pm #

    You da man!
    Er…lady.

  126. Kyooshtik April 2, 2012 at 3:56 pm #

    to describe current day Athens as an “an effed-up shit hole” is not accurate.
    ==========
    Unfortunately, it is very accurate. It was one of the places I had hoped to see before I die but no longer.
    My son Thom, who finds it difficult to say anything disparaging about any person, place or thing (bless his liberal heart), took a vacation to Greece with his girlfriend about 1.5 years ago. After a simple parsing of Thom’s good natured descriptions one sees clearly that Athens is filthy, the people are lazy and everything operates innefficiently. There is a great excess of socialistic free-lunchism.
    As to my use of “shithole” as a single word, I choose, in this instance, to think of the word as one single noun as opposed to “shit” as an adjective modifying the noun “hole.” Similarly, I would consider “shithole” as a single adjective if I were to say, for example, Athens is a shithole city. I would agree with you, however, that the opening in the ground under an outhouse is a “shit hole.”

  127. Newfie April 2, 2012 at 4:01 pm #

    Meanwhile the police can now strip search you for any offence however slight, even jaywalking or a burnt out taillight bulb:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/us/justices-approve-strip-searches-for-any-offense.html
    They are already widely and aggressively tracking cellphones for which they do not need a warrant:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/us/police-tracking-of-cellphones-raises-privacy-fears.html
    And a corporation is a person. H–y F–k!

  128. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 4:14 pm #

    She doesn’t say much about community, though, or even simple teamwork. Gen. Patton had a point when he said
    Now, an army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of crap. The bilious bastards who wrote that stuff about individuality for the Saturday Evening Post [or the Mother Earth News, I might add], don’t know anything more about real battle than they do about fornicating.
    Isolated, individualist survivalist compounds can easily be surrounded and starved out, if TSHTF.

  129. Inquiring Mind April 2, 2012 at 4:22 pm #

    C’mon people.
    This whole peak oil situation and coming changes as a result is putting everyone into introversion and paralysis. We’re not going back to the 19th century agrarian age.
    We’ll stop driving so much; we’ll move closer to work; we’ll live in areas where everything we need is in walkable distance; we’ll utilize bikes and scooters; we’ll utilize public transportation; there will be more innovation and solutions for transportation than you can imagine; etc.
    Despite all of man’s folly and errors there has been so much positive progress. Man has done and achieved miraculous things… and will continue to do so. Man will always have setbacks but usually comes through with amazing solutions.
    Rise up out of this paralysis. Be productive and get on with your lives and make a better world.

  130. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 4:25 pm #

    An Inquiring Mind, so you disagree with JHK’s contention that everything in the U.S. is now nothing more than “A Matrix of Rackets”
    Hmmm.

  131. asoka. April 2, 2012 at 4:39 pm #

    I choose, in this instance, to think of the word as one single noun as opposed to “shit” as an adjective modifying the noun “hole.” Similarly, I would consider “shithole” as a single adjective…

    Choose? You choose? This is what is wrong with our society. People take nouns and adjectives and interchange them and treat them as they please.
    There is no respect for linguistic authority. You, Q, have said Dictionary.com is your authority and the word shithole does not appear there.
    shithole
    – no dictionary results

    You are willfully abusing the English language. You are ignoring your own chosen source of authority. You are shamefully violating the care for the language that William Safire (may the peace of Allah be upon him) tried to teach you.
    People used to have values. People used to have respect. Your behavior is wanton. Disgusting.
    [sarcasm off]

  132. anti soak April 2, 2012 at 5:19 pm #

    Welcome Back..for awhile yd been gone
    New news on Trayvon case..yahoo news.

  133. Kyooshtik April 2, 2012 at 5:21 pm #

    Definition #22 of 36 from Urban Dictionary:
    shithole
    noun, adjective
    anything you would like it to be. can be used in a verious amount of ways, most of which are negative or bad.
    also used as an emphasis in sentences.

  134. Vlad Krandz April 2, 2012 at 5:24 pm #

    Que?

  135. asoka. April 2, 2012 at 5:26 pm #

    The funeral director who handled Martin’s body told Nancy Grace there were no cuts, bruises or signs of a fight on Martin’s body.
    I didn’t see any evidence he had been fighting anybody
    — Richard Kurtz of Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale

  136. anti soak April 2, 2012 at 5:27 pm #

    “black sheep”, with you being the counterpoint?
    The white creep?

  137. asoka. April 2, 2012 at 5:29 pm #

    Urbandictionary is not a source you respect, Q.
    In fact, you have openly disparaged urbandictionary in the past. Now you cite it.
    Intellectual honesty is a thing of the past, also.

  138. Vlad Krandz April 2, 2012 at 5:29 pm #

    You’re a sap Mr Jap. At least you admit Edgar Cayce was right: Japan will sink beneath the waves due to global warming.

  139. Vlad Krandz April 2, 2012 at 5:31 pm #

    Today’s new showed the enhanced footage. The massive cut on the back of his head is clearly visbile.
    Now how many Whites are you hoping will die in the coming race riots due to this nonsense?

  140. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 5:35 pm #

    Vlad, the Combined Fleet’s already on its way to New Zealand. :-)
    And for your viewing pleasure:






  141. turkle April 2, 2012 at 5:39 pm #

    The “I hate everyone” guy calls me a creep. I’ll take that as a compliment.

  142. turkle April 2, 2012 at 5:44 pm #

    AFAIK…
    He called his girlfriend and said (basically), “Someone is following me, and I’m scared. What should I do?”
    While walking home from the store where he purchased some Skittles.
    Yeah, that really sounds like someone out looking for trouble…

  143. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 5:46 pm #

    In a totally related incident, both Skittles and bottled ice tea have been flying off American store shelves these past few weeks.

  144. turkle April 2, 2012 at 5:54 pm #

    Ah, your bestest internet friend OEO is back with a new account, after his 30 other ones were blacklisted.
    Well, for a few a little while at least, until he gets banned again…
    Anyone like to place some bets on how long that will take?

  145. Max April 2, 2012 at 6:03 pm #

    I recently was in the capital of energy illusions – Odessa, TX, deep in the Permian Basin territory – where the predominate talk is rampant about “new” finds in “old” fields. Contrast that with the talk @ the pumps, which was similar to JHK’s experience, where there was widespread outrage with surrendering a C-note in exchange for a full tank. I didn’t dare tout the frugal consumption patterns of my rental car, a Chevy Cruze which never topped $30 for a fill-up. I know they’d rather not hear it, nor the reality that manifests itself when the “new” finds come up empty, too.

  146. JulettaofOhio April 2, 2012 at 6:07 pm #

    Did you send money for his re-election campaign? They don’t listen, otherwise.

  147. JulettaofOhio April 2, 2012 at 6:08 pm #

    Probably not, but starvation will.

  148. turkle April 2, 2012 at 6:12 pm #

    If you’re willing to broaden your definition of “solution”, then I suppose all problems can be solved.

  149. turkle April 2, 2012 at 6:16 pm #

    What’s this “news” of which you speak? The guy has some marks on the top of his head, which if caused by the scuffle, would have sent him to the hospital. Where’s all the blood? Why didn’t he go to the hospital and receive 50 stitches for his supposedly severe wounds?
    Zimmerman’s brother was the only person that claimed he was severely injured that evening, and he’s lying. All other witnesses have claimed he was uninjured.
    Your attempts to incriminate some poor innocent murdered kid, simply because of the color of his skin, are simply reprehensible, and a new low, which is pretty impressive coming from you.

  150. JulettaofOhio April 2, 2012 at 6:24 pm #

    Steel is up to almost $300. Even our railroads, all both of them, are picking up the old spikes and clips that work loose from the tracks. I wish we had some trains around here. If you’re from NYC or LA, it’s easy to say “Take the train” or “Take the subway”. We don’t have any, and neither does most of fly-over country. Also, a large pick-up is necessary for farming. You know, farms where food is produced? It doesn’t come from the grocery store, you know. You can’t haul fertilizer or hay in a Volt.
    We have our newer, very pretty house up for sale, (as in good luck with that) and have made an offer for a 1930s bungalow with natural air circulation and lots of shade. If it can be sufficiently insulated, it should be much cheaper to heat and cool. Even hot, dry Kansas and Oklahoma were bearable if you could get the cooler air of morning and evening inside and block out the hot afternoon temps. The County will hate it because we won’t be paying the outrageous taxes on the newer house, but I’ll love it. (We kept the seven acres with the pond, gardens, orchard and woods.)
    Good luck, Jim, on your health “problems”. My great aunt Grace died at 104 with a cholesterol reading of over 300, and most of my aunts and uncles are going strong at 80 and 90+ with very high readings. (Dairy farmers and teachers) Those ages are acceptable to me. Attaboy for standing up to the medical mafia.

  151. JonathanSS April 2, 2012 at 6:44 pm #

    You want more talk on NG? I only have one question. Can I get you to pay the increased cost delta for heating my house and cooking my food in the future when you and your fellow NG happy motorists contribute to NG pricing increases?

  152. sevenmmm April 2, 2012 at 6:47 pm #

    Ah… that is so much better.

  153. BeantownBill April 2, 2012 at 6:49 pm #

    I’m too lazy to look up the actual numbers, but they’re easily gotten. The last time I paid attention to the actual number of Americans killed by handguns annually was several years ago, and that number was, I believe, 12,000.
    Assuming for the sake of argument that that number is more or less accurate, I’d have to say that included in that number was a certain amount of white-on-black murder, and a certain amount of black-on-white murder. Yet, very,very rarely does such an individual case become a national sensation. As an example, remember the black guy from NYC who was celebrating his imminent marriage and got shot 50 times by the police? That rightly became a sensational news story.
    If you look at the Trayvon killing rationally, it was mundane and not spectacular. That is not to say it isn’t tragic that a young man lost his life and his family is suffering, or that a situation in which anybody shot and killed is truly mundane, but compared to the spectacular cases, it truly is mundane; it is similar to many of the annual 12,000 murders, almost all of them reported briefly in the local news.
    So, the question which ought to be asked is why did this specific killing become such a sensation? Surely other white-on-black shootings occur pretty regularly and they are not a sensation. Off the top of my head, I can think of 2 reasons:
    1. Yellow journalism (to bring up color, here) produces beaucoup revenue; and
    2. Someone or some group that has media influence wants to foment racial divisiveness. Why? Who knows? Maybe some CFNers can enlighten me, I’d be interested in theories.

  154. Buck Stud April 2, 2012 at 7:03 pm #

    And once again we see the court break down along ideological lines in a 5-4 decision. And once again it was the conservative wing of the court -appointed by Republicans – who voted for this abomination.
    And why did you forget to mention THAT?

  155. jerry April 2, 2012 at 7:03 pm #

    Here in Western Pennsylvania, our corrupt Governor Tom Corrupt-bett has been sucking the milkshake straw of cash brought to him and his Congressional whores by the Marcellus Shale industry. He has allowed them special privileges by forcing all municipalities to adhere to a single set of rules set up by the State Legislature that favors the MS industry. No more local ordinances to regulate and control this drilling and fracking industry in each municipality.
    Once the natural gas is dried up and the soil is poisoned by the toxic runoff by the industry, they will go home leaving us to clean up the mess, which will never be cleaned up.
    http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com
    http://moontownshippa.blogspot.com

  156. BenjaminTheDonkey April 2, 2012 at 7:21 pm #

    Unthinkable
    The “Titanic” was thought unsinkable
    (The story’s online, and it’s linkable),
    So you just might be sane
    If your logical brain
    Concludes that extinction is thinkable.
    http://benjaminthedonkey-limericksofdoom.blogspot.com/2012/01/unthinkable.html

  157. welles April 2, 2012 at 7:21 pm #

    haha joke’s on you pal, as you get taxed to death
    to ‘save’ the planet and have to get 13 authorisations to get a car, then have a ‘carbon tax’ autodeducted from your salary. and if you
    exceed your allotted ‘carbon’ allowance (haha) you’ll get fined.
    so you can cancel that trip to see your family, too many miles and co2 emitted (your aged mother can just lump it, the planet’s more important than her, and if she dies b4 you see her oh well at least your carbon ‘footprint’ [hahahahah] wasn’t overstepped so you can feel good about that).
    oh and you emit co2 when you breathe out so we’ll have to tax that or you might have to live fewer years.
    …because that’s where this is all going. get everyone real sceerd about ‘the planet’s getting hotter’ then bam! they’ll do (and pay) anything the appointed gurus (pollys) say.
    so enjoy it, while millions of others simply take moderate steps to improve/maintain the environment…easy enough to do.
    btw did you get rid of your car yet and give up travel and eating meat (cows belch methane) and using plastics and stop going *anywhere* cuz it’s really not necessary and uses fossil fuels and my my heats up kansas’ atmosphere.
    go back and read The End of Prosperity about how we’d be out of many minerals and metals by the 1980s or 90s.
    except the opposite happened
    Next, read The Great Depression of 1990 (haha)
    …where is that one btw? must’ve missed it
    Next, read the famous comment from IBM’s president that there was only a worldwide market for 5 computers (hahahah)
    and then that people would never fly.
    the road only goes forward.
    peace peaceniks

  158. Senneth April 2, 2012 at 7:30 pm #

    Ozone,
    Thank you for posting LBennet’s comment to me. Really appreciate it.
    Bustin J, thank you also for your response.

  159. turkle April 2, 2012 at 7:33 pm #

    It isn’t just CO2 you maroon. It is the entire cornucopia of carbon-based molecules we spew into the atmosphere that causes these problems. And planting a few trees doesn’t even come close to being enough to offset this.
    Now I’ll kindly ignore everything else you have to say on this topic, because obviously, you don’t know the first thing about it.

  160. turkle April 2, 2012 at 7:37 pm #

    “the road only goes forward.”
    Says the Roman citizen circa 450 AD.
    Or a Mayan just before the Spanish conquest.
    You get the idea…

  161. welles April 2, 2012 at 7:40 pm #

    Yep we’ll take your word for it then. since you’re smarter.
    peace peaceniks

  162. turkle April 2, 2012 at 7:42 pm #

    So, a couple of books were overly pessimistic and made inaccurate predictions about the future.
    Therefore, you conclude that everything is going to be fine, ad infinitum.
    I fail to see how that makes any logical sense, whatsoever.

  163. welles April 2, 2012 at 7:54 pm #

    no, if you read my commentz carefully i many tymes say yes oil is being depleted et al.
    i am saying we are countering this with changing habits and improved technology.
    and the president of IBM and scientists predicting ice ages in the 70’s and other learned people saying we’re on the eve of destruction are the ones that were/are listened to.
    they were flat out wrong.
    you very much sound like you listen to these people.
    peace peaceniks

  164. Newfie April 2, 2012 at 7:56 pm #

    “And why did you forget to mention THAT?”
    Well I didn’t want to (um) poke a stick in any wasps nests. I can’t run very fast. Now I see the British are heading the same way. They are planning to eavesdrop on anybody in the country, anytime, internet, cellphone, whatever.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/world/europe/british-government-eavesdropping-plans-draw-protest.html
    Pretty soon Big Brother will be watching your every move.

  165. turkle April 2, 2012 at 7:59 pm #

    Yeah, I do know more about this than you, apparently, but that’s not difficult. Because you don’t know even the basic, established scientific facts about this topic, and then you flaunt your ignorance like a badge of honor. (Just plant a couple trees!) Is it hard for you to admit that someone knows more than you on a given topic?
    But don’t take my word for it that I’m right and you’re wrong. Simply google up the latest Climate Change models on the internet. They speak for themselves.
    Are they overly pessimistic? Perhaps. But if the scientists are even half right in their predictions for the next 50 to 100 years, there are “interesting” times ahead of us, for sure.

  166. BeantownBill April 2, 2012 at 8:03 pm #

    Welles, I never knew you were so technologically progressive. What’s going on? I remember how you chortled about being in Brazil while we were stuck here, and you told us to get out of the USA before TSHTF.
    You bringing this side of you out has my approval, not that it’s important to you. Still, I like to read about something else other than doom and gloom.
    I think we’ll all go through some hard times and come out the other side fine and dandy – at the worst.

  167. BeantownBill April 2, 2012 at 8:04 pm #

    Turk, we ARE going to go through interesting times, but it won’t all be bad.

  168. turkle April 2, 2012 at 8:10 pm #

    I admit, people tend to get the time scale wrong. They seem to always want to push things forward into their own life span, possibly in order to provoke a sense of urgency. I like to think of +100 or +200 years. What will the planet be like then? What will be the scale of human activity? How much of the nonrenewable resource base will remain? What will be the scale of human civilization? How many people will live on the planet?
    Though that may seem like a long time, it is a mere blink of the eye on the geological time scale.
    “i am saying we are countering this with changing habits and improved technology.”
    That is a supremely doubtful conclusion. Even if we are countering “this” (where “this” seems to be a stand in for everything wrong under the sun), there is nothing to me that indicates that the scale of the countermeasures are anywhere close to being sufficient to counteract the environmental effects we’ve sent into motion.
    Here in America, “green” is basically a marketing buzzword. Does it actually make people change their basic behaviors? Nope, not really. Do you think a bit of recycling and planting trees is going to counteract a human-caused global average temperature rise of 2-3 degrees? Really?
    But what makes you think otherwise? What makes you so optimistic? What do you see as far as real honest-to-God change in the way humans operate that will avert major catastrophes somewhere down the line? I’m curious, really. This is not the world in which I live.

  169. welles April 2, 2012 at 8:12 pm #

    large-scale tree planting has very positive effects on atmospheric levels of co2.
    who said we should only plant a ‘few’ trees? i’m talking about changes in societal habits. large scale.
    and re googling the latest climate change models…whose models? the ones which show no/no appreciable warming?
    of course you don’t recognize any of them, since you’re certain of your knowledge.
    we’re still waiting for your scientific facts btw, we’re about 4-5 posts in and you keep touting your superiority.
    ante up with a point backed up with something besides calumny and putting down trees.
    the road goes forward.
    peace peaceniks

  170. turkle April 2, 2012 at 8:18 pm #

    You guys are such ostriches. Much of the world is already well into the shadow of Peak Oil. Food prices have been rising drastically over the last few years. Fuel prices are going up, with no real end in sight. Revolutions are occurring all across the planet, and do you think these are purely political? If the United States didn’t subsidize Egypt, half the country would starve to death. Large parts of Sub-Sarahan Africa are in continual famine and drought, which is only set to get worse as much formly arrable land desertifies in the coming years.
    OPEN YOUR EYES.
    Overpopulation, Peak Oil, Climate Change, and all the systemic, human-created problems bearing down upon us are already in effect, and here you say, “Oh, yeah, everything is going to be fine.” If you step outside the air-conditioned limo of whatever technological utopia that cocoons you, then you would clearly see that things are not fine and haven’t been for quite some time.

  171. Buck Stud April 2, 2012 at 8:21 pm #

    In time you might come to appreciate Vlad. I mean who else is willing to step back in time and declare that women in lifeboats didn’t turn back and save the men freezing to death as a result of their chivalry.
    And yet after reading Katha Pollit’s brilliant essay ” Women and Children First” maybe Vlad is on to something:
    ” So call Titanic a a woman’s fantasy brought to you by a devoted selfless, charming, funny, incredibly handsome lover” and “He had to die” said one friend of mine, “because otherwise he would have disappointed her down the road.” LOL!

  172. welles April 2, 2012 at 8:23 pm #

    cars are some 90-95% cleaner than in 1970
    yes there are more cars…i get it
    the air is demonstrably cleaner than in the late 60s and 70s
    yes we still have air pollution…
    point is, we keep reacting in positive ways.
    Here in America, “green” is basically a marketing buzzword. Does it actually make people change their basic behaviors? Nope, not really. Do you think a bit of recycling and planting trees is going to counteract a human-caused global average temperature rise of 2-3 degrees?
    in Germany – a huge country – they recycle some 80% of waste. so YES pelple do change basic behaviours. is that your ‘bit of recycling’?
    are you going to tell me americanz haven’t changed their behaviour at all? so you’ve never seen recycling trucks/programs/ads, recycling centers employing people, carpooling, bus/bike/train/subway systems hauling millions of people every hour.
    and stop it with the ‘plant a FEW trees’. that’s bogus. EVERY tree/plant planted captures co2, reduces heat gain, purifies the atmosphere.
    multiply that by millions of trees, or a billion.
    these ‘problems’ are much more easily solved than you realize. putting up barrels to collect rainwater at 20% of US houses would decrease water usage massively.
    retooling houses to make much better usage of gray water would improve that even more.
    yes there’s costs associated with it. that’s the doomer-side brain kicking in, always a problem.
    problems get solved.
    peace peaceniks

  173. bubbleheadMarc April 2, 2012 at 8:23 pm #

    Just got around to reading the new post by Jim. It’s amazing in a way but apparently we are really all that stupid. Between our fondness for lightly insulated above grade housing, over-large motor vehicles, and grotesqueries such as incandescant light bulbs, we don’t stand a chance. I know people who have actually begun hoarding the old fashioned light bulbs so that they can continue wasting as much electricity as possible for as long as possible, just to prove how retrograde they are. And if you tell them “gasoline is expensive because we’re running out” they reply “I don’t believe in that shit.” What I’d like to know is whose idea was it to make sure that everyone who goes or went to public school should be as much of a dumb-fuck as humanly possible? It would appear to me that a great deal of effort was expended to make people in this country as stupid as possible for some sinister political reason. And so long as natural gas is rafted out to run shit like power plants and truck fleets it’s not going to last all that long at least on a historical scale at any rate.

  174. turkle April 2, 2012 at 8:27 pm #

    Don’t be obtuse, welles. You could stand to research this topic on your own.
    Simply google “climate change models” and read up.
    Which of them predict no change in average global temperature? I can’t find ONE. Did you just make that up? The onus is on you to back up that rather absurd statement with a link or two.

  175. turkle April 2, 2012 at 8:29 pm #

    Ah, okay, there is usually a “steady state” line on most of these models, but that is not to be taken as a prediction. It is comparative. I would be hard-pressed to identify even one serious climate scientist who believes that this will actually occur.

  176. Kyooshtik April 2, 2012 at 8:30 pm #

    Urbandictionary is not a source you respect, Q.
    ================
    I cite it because I know YOU respect it.
    I use street slang when I know it is appropriate. Namely, Athens is a shithole.

  177. turkle April 2, 2012 at 8:35 pm #

    these ‘problems’ are much more easily solved than you realize

    If you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich?
    I’m sorry. That’s facetious. I just had to throw it in there. ;)

  178. Vlad Krandz April 2, 2012 at 8:42 pm #

    Why should you be the only one who gets to flout the Law of Contadiction; to be broad and contain multitudes?

  179. turkle April 2, 2012 at 8:42 pm #

    So some things have changed in Germany and the United States over the last couple decades. Fine. I conceed the point. Actually, Germany has been green for some time. They probably invented it.
    What about the rest of the world? What about people who don’t have the luxury of being “green” in how they live their lives? What about China and its coal plants? Can you plant enough trees to offset the deforestation of the Amazon? What about those living at a subsistence level who cut down your freshly planted tree in order to cook their dinner? Hows does one go about planting trees when one lives in the desert? etc.
    You seem to have a lot of simple answers, based on hope and optimism. I have questions, but I don’t like the answers. Am I too pessimistic? Perhaps, but I think you go too far the other way. Simply because there are problems doesn’t mean that there are easy solutions that can be implemented or at least implemented to the degree that will solve the problem.
    And, like I said before, 90% of humanity dying off would be one of Nature’s solutions. We just tend not to like that one very much.

  180. turkle April 2, 2012 at 8:46 pm #

    “famine….jeez so what’s new in africa? move to where the damn food is.”
    Just this statement alone tells me that you’re just making this up as you go along. What country on the planet is going to accept millions of starving African refugees with open arms?

  181. Vlad Krandz April 2, 2012 at 8:46 pm #

    Never marry Gentlmen. Never marry. And if you must, go abroad. But choose carefully, the Cult of Feminism has spread far and wide. It is as ONE with Globalism.

    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

  182. Inquiring Mind April 2, 2012 at 8:49 pm #

    Man predicts consequences and comes up with solutions before the problem manifests. Sometimes Man misses the boat and a crisis arises. This raises his “necessity level” and he is then forced to solve the problem in short order, or create a stop gap measure until the problem can be more effectively handled at a later date. Solutions continue to become more sophisticated.
    We’ve been through ice ages, droughts, famines, pestilences, plagues, world wars, etc. etc.
    Have faith.

  183. welles April 2, 2012 at 8:54 pm #

    hahaha, i counter all your poopsy dire forecasts and you simple say ‘ok fine, maybe people are recycling 80% of waste’ and ‘ok maybe a billion-strong population center is shrinking’, and ‘ok so maybe some things have changed’ and then wish for 90% of the population to die off.
    and then berate me for being positive, while you’d really be pleased if everyone would just perish! so some bloody ball of rock spinning in empty space could be ‘clean’. no truer altruist ever trolled this blog.
    re serious scientists refuting beloved global warming, apparently the earth is facing a huge freezing threat and stopped warming in 1997:
    http://times247.com/articles/global-warming-trend-ended-in-1997-new-data-shows
    admit i haven’t vetted this one to the hilt yet, but cites some of the same institutes that’ve been touting our soon-to-be-roasting future.
    peace peaceniks

  184. turkle April 2, 2012 at 8:55 pm #

    The “doomer” label is what people use when confronted with uncomfortable future scenarios, even when these are grounded in science. To wit, Peak Oil is a scientific fact, and the question is only one of timing. Climate Change is well-established and most models predict at least a 2 degree average temperature rise within 100 years, and those are the conservative estimates. So it isn’t being a doomer. It is simply confronting the reality of our situation.
    I agree with you that thinking about all of this too much tends to paralyze, and that there are actions which can be taken to alleviate the effects. But, as far as I can tell, in the long term, the Ying will not balance out the Yang.
    You talk about global overpopulation, as if housing 7-8 billion people on this planet is going to be indefinitely sustainable. I have news for you. The planet is finite, and all nonrenewable resources are, by definition, running out, and rather quickly. This includes all the tasty ones that make modern, interconnected, globalized, industrialized society possible, including oil, natural gas, precious metals, rare earth metals, even water and arable land. How exactly are billions of people supposed to sustain themselves when these things are (more or less) GONE, with hope, optimism, and good intentions?

  185. Inquiring Mind April 2, 2012 at 8:56 pm #

    I should also add: empire collapses, depressions, recessions, currency collapses, deflations, hyper-inflations, fiat money systems, alien invasions, meteror hits, sun spots, epidemics, slavery, religious suppression, ethnic cleansing, etc. etc. etc.
    We’re pretty resilient, pretty resourceful, pretty strong in the urge to survive department.
    I’m not worried. Tough times? Sure. Difficulties? Sure. But we’re not going back to the dark ages like all of these gloomer and doomers are salivating over.

  186. Inquiring Mind April 2, 2012 at 9:02 pm #

    Oh global warming is a total fraud (evil vested interests are behind that one). Real science has dispelled this idea over and over.
    Over population? Another fraud. This planet will support 50 trillion people. Technology and social evolution will triumph. By then we’ll be populating other planets and pulling resources from them.
    Have faith.
    Now get to work and produce something useful or help someone.

  187. turkle April 2, 2012 at 9:05 pm #

    “This planet will support 50 trillion people.”
    This is a moronic assertion without the slightest support of any scientific field. Thanks for playing.

  188. turkle April 2, 2012 at 9:07 pm #

    “By then we’ll be populating other planets and pulling resources from them.”
    Ahahahaha. You’ve been watching too much Star Trek, again, and filling that inquiring mind of yours with mental garbage.

  189. Inquiring Mind April 2, 2012 at 9:07 pm #

    Turkle:
    The science isn’t here yet for this, but it will be. Look where we’ve been, look where we are. Extrapolate. Have faith.

  190. welles April 2, 2012 at 9:07 pm #

    I have news for you. The planet is finite, and all nonrenewable resources are, by definition, running out, and rather quickly. This includes all the tasty ones that make modern, interconnected, globalized, industrialized society possible, including oil, natural gas, precious metals, rare earth metals, even water and arable land. How exactly are billions of people supposed to sustain themselves when these things are (more or less) GONE
    name one resource the world ever ran out of til now…besides guano. you sound just like the doomsday 1970s books again….
    water is infinitely reusable. land can be reclaimed detroit should be plowed under anyway lol). farming can be done vertically, indoors etc, with zero pesticide use, massively reduced water usage since the water evaporates then just drops to the crops again.
    and just how quick is ‘rather quickly’ in your spiel of ‘non-renewable resources are running out’? 50 years?
    will we not invent anything for 20 , 30, 40 years to counter this?
    it’s only forward we go, whether you like it or not your future is highly likely better than your past. just like all your forbears since tyme immemorial.
    peace peaceniks

  191. turkle April 2, 2012 at 9:08 pm #

    “Have faith.”
    And this from someone who goes by the handle Inquiring Mind? LMAO!

  192. Kyooshtik April 2, 2012 at 9:10 pm #

    you have openly disparaged urbandictionary in the past. Now you cite it.
    ===========
    “Speak what you think now in hard words and tomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict everything you said today” – RWE

  193. Inquiring Mind April 2, 2012 at 9:12 pm #

    An inquiring mind is a healthy mind, a survival oriented mind. What is wrong with that. Look up the definition of “faith”. I’m not talking from a religious airy-fairy viewpoint. Real faith. Knowledge of yourself and your power.

  194. asoka. April 2, 2012 at 9:15 pm #

    Vlad, are you jealous? Nothing is stopping others from joining me … but so far, crickets.

  195. turkle April 2, 2012 at 9:17 pm #

    I notice that you say absolutely nothing about the depletion of fossil fuel resources, which is quite telling. Most of the nice things we enjoy about modern life stem from them, in one way or another. Is petroleum somehow replenishable or reusable? If so, I’d like to know.
    I never stated that nothing at all would be done. I’m just saying it won’t be enough.
    And, BTW, thanks for the discussion. This reminds me of old school CFN. :)

  196. turkle April 2, 2012 at 9:18 pm #

    Wrong, faith is belief without evidence. Look it up.

  197. ozone April 2, 2012 at 9:19 pm #

    Turk,
    That would be the oldspider up to his deranged prescriptions again! Notice the “trillions”; soon to reference skyscrapers and other such shit-brained notions, spouted from his SHITHOLE (tm Q) of a cell within ol’ Greystone Asylum. He never should have been watching when they ran the Star Trek series; it tied in far to well with his psychotic delusions. And what’s with all the Chinese shit?? Can’t get enough of seeing himself “in print”? Fu-ucked up! (Maybe he thinks he can really speak Chinese; as Greystone’s Premier, that would be a requirement.)

  198. asoka. April 2, 2012 at 9:24 pm #

    Turkle, you are correct that many resources are finite. Others are renewable. What we will definitely need to do is reduce our level of consumption. Conservation will buy us time to develop safe, renewable, and sustainable energy, so we can get out of dangerous sources like nukes (see Fukushima).
    For example, since 20% of SoCal’s energy supposedly comes from nukes that produce dangerous nuclear wastes, the time is right for a conservation campaign to reduce electric usage by 20%. There are relatively painless ways to conserve: LA is possibly the most over-illumined city in the USA.

  199. Vlad Krandz April 2, 2012 at 9:25 pm #

    Why the Troops must come Home and be placed on our Southern Border. And then we must begin to deport the Enemy within.
    Also shows Asoka’s claims that La Raza is not a Racist Organization are nonsense.
    http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=10983

  200. turkle April 2, 2012 at 9:26 pm #

    It is exactly this kind of techno-optimist fawning that leads me to believe our civilization is not long for this earth. We have lost all sense of tragedy and limits. We think everything is possible and that all problems are reversible, e.g. have solutions. We think that because we can sustain some activity for a few decades or even a hundred years that we will be able to do it indefinitely. There is a real human tragedy in the making here, the ultimate one, in fact. Civilizations rise and fall, and it will be the same with ours. The fall is going to be harder than in the past because of how high we’ve gotten (legend of Icarus) and how interconnected the world has become. This isn’t some doomer fantasy. It is how history has always progressed.
    Will humanity die out completely? That’s unlikely. We are a hardly little ape and likely to surive in some form or another for thousands if not millions of years, even if we have to live underground or under the ocean.
    But will the current way of doing things and the current population levels be sustained far into the future? I very seriously doubt it, based upon what I know of ecology and other scientific fields.
    But, then again, you could be right. Maybe we’ll solve all these problems and wrap it all up with a pretty bow. Predicting the future is usually a fool’s game. Maybe we’ll be riding around in solar-powered, electric hovercrafts and harvesting minerals from the center of the moon. But I’m not counting on it.

  201. Inquiring Mind April 2, 2012 at 9:27 pm #

    Turkle:
    The def of faith I’m using is…
    Faith as in knowledge of yourself and your capabilities. Not the blind acceptance that religions claim. It is a powerful vibration of energy, the most powerful in the physical universe.
    When you have faith (not confidence or hope) that something will happen to you, then you are in the process of manifesting it. Faith is success in another dimension… another arc.
    It is and has always been the common denominator of successful people or groups.
    Learn it and use it. It’s Mind Power.
    Read John Kehoe’s book “Mind Power”.
    Hey Welles. Maybe we should hightail it from here, eh?
    This non-solution oriented blog is full of major negativity, doom and gloom, despair, etc. It’s as if these people are mentally programmed to hope for and expect the demise of humanity. Maybe even relish it?

  202. Zadeekah April 2, 2012 at 9:30 pm #

    What a total disappointment this week’s blog entry was! The last two or three weeks gave the impression that you were on a new path, re-evaluating previous paths, and that maybe some new insights would be in the works, but no, just the same old, same old. Today you returned to preaching to the same old choir. You pontificated, making your claims as if they were obvious, beyond question, clear and distinct, in no need of evidence or reasoning.
    OK, we all sense that the climate is changing, but there is no consensus that “going back” (CO2 reduction) is the path to take. Maybe instead of going back, we adapt, we change, incrementally, as conditions dictate. Why must we all accept your catastrophist perspective and expect doom and destruction in the “near” future? Why can’t it be evolutionary? Gas is $4+ today, yesterday it was 2 or 3, and tomorrow maybe 5 or 6, and next year 7 or 8 (it’s already that in Europe and people aren’t jumping out of windows).
    And what should we do anyway? Just stop the entire economy and start anew on some other paradigm? Do you think Rome was built in a day, or that America can be destroyed and re-created in a day? Get real! We’re going to continue with the system we have until we can’t. This could be a day or a thousand years. Some guy on one of the so-called conservative websites has been predicting $5000 gold for the last 20 years; sooner or later he’ll probably be right. Same for you. You’ve been predicting death and destruction for years, and if we wait long enough you’ll probably be right. But, so what?
    Anyway, as I said, a big disappointment. May you live long and prosper, but if you’re going to peddle the same old crap, why bother?

  203. turkle April 2, 2012 at 9:31 pm #

    It is almost like you’re programmed to be a thick-headed git.
    Trillions and trillions…of skyscrapers!

  204. anti soak April 2, 2012 at 9:32 pm #

    Mr Diversity Lover:
    1 in 3? Salvadoreans is here.
    1 in 3? Haitians is here.
    USA sends $ to Egypt, where half? the populations under 25! Gee the food gets put to good use, makin bacon, Oops, I mean Muslin, Oops I mean Muslims.
    Since yr the smartest person here, didya know BHO
    has a ‘Diversity Visa’ to bring in more Muslims?
    And how many more Blacks have been brought in under his watch? how many more people have been brought in?
    Didya know Ted Kennedy had a bill to let ANY Chaldean in the world move to US as a ‘Refugee’?
    thats an attempt to answer the question ya posed.

  205. asoka. April 2, 2012 at 9:35 pm #

    Wrong, Turkle. Faith and belief and very different, epistemologically speaking.
    Faith and belief are two closely related concepts that are often understood to be synonymous, though they are distinct.
    According to Wilfred Cantwell Smith, in his book Faith and Belief, “belief” involves either lack of certainty about something or neutrality about its correctness.
    Thus “John knows Paris is the capital of France” is a statement of certainty; “John believes Paris is the capital of France” indicates uncertainty about the truth of the statement; “John believes Marseilles is the capital of France” indicates either that John is uncertain or that the speaker knows that John is wrong (Faith and Belief, 35).
    Faith, on the other hand presupposes a level of certainty, not a level of uncertainty. While some uncertainty may remain, and some level of “belief” may exist, faith presupposes the correctness and truthfulness of some proposition or experience.
    An integral part of faith, Smith asserts, is a personal response to that proposition or experience. Faith implies engagement, interaction, while belief involves only an intellectual assertion that something may be true and correct (Ibid., 4-5, 50).

  206. anti soak April 2, 2012 at 9:36 pm #

    Is it 15k, Murder. 15k suicide?

  207. anti soak April 2, 2012 at 9:38 pm #

    thats beyond creepy!!!

  208. anti soak April 2, 2012 at 9:42 pm #

    What is this crap?
    Its day 1 of this thread and both the ‘clothes guy’ and the ‘asian character spam’ are in full force.

  209. Inquiring Mind April 2, 2012 at 9:42 pm #

    TURKLE:
    Man has been on a long evolutionary path towards conquering the physical universe. He’s done wonders already. The real game is on a spiritual level… the spiritual being reaching into and withdrawing from the physical universe (life/death cycle) and coming back each time with more understanding and higher evolved.
    A Renaissance is occuring spiritually, mentally and emotionally on this planet. There will be great changes. Man will go through heavy and trying periods.
    You will become what you think about. You are what you think you are.
    Stop focusing and thinking about what you don’t want and start focusing on what you do want.
    Fossil fuels will be considered a primitive form of energy in the future. We’ll have safe forms of nuclear energy and all sorts of other energy forms as we expand our knowledge..

  210. turkle April 2, 2012 at 9:44 pm #

    It is like a law of physics, soaky. People from the poor and overpopulated countries will go to the relatively rich and less populated ones, whether or not you formally allow it or not, to wit, the immigration of millions of Mexicans into the states from their overpopulated, impoverished country into the relatively less populated and far more prosperous US and A. That’s life. It has been happening for thousands of years and will continue indefinitely. That’s why the barbarians invaded Roman. They were rich and had, uh, vast tracts of land. The only thing that is ultimately going to stop this shift is when the relatively rich countries get poor and overpopulated enough that people don’t want to go there anymore. Or the borders could be fully militarized and locked down, but that’s rather difficult to do in a free, democratic country. If you don’t like it, go join the Border Patrol or something, where you can “make a difference.”
    And can you blame them? If I was born in Haiti, the first thing I would do as an able bodied adult would be to GTF out of there.

  211. anti soak April 2, 2012 at 9:45 pm #

    Bill Gates has said:
    1..Tech will solve the Environmental crisis [at least he admits biosphere is in triage].
    2..Nuke Energy is the safest! [a recent statement I saw in Yahoo? news very recently].

  212. rippedthunder April 2, 2012 at 9:48 pm #

    Well I just got back from walking the little rat eaters, Jasper and Murray. I can say that Venus, the Goddess of love and Earths sister planet, sits right in the bosom of the Seven Sisters. She outshines them by many orders of magnitude. Still it is quite a fetching site with Jupiter, Mars, Sirius, and the great hunter all doing the sky dance together!

  213. turkle April 2, 2012 at 9:50 pm #

    You know what I think about religion, so I won’t repeat myself (too much). Suffice to say, “You’re wrong.” Your stated definitions are not the commonly understood ones. Faith is used to justify belief in God. There is no evidence that supports this belief, hence people’s parrot-like refrain that they believe in this fictious entity because they “have faith.” Belief justifies faith, and faith justifies belief. It is a nice little tautology. And if that isn’t belief without evidence, my stated definition, I’m not sure what is.

  214. Inquiring Mind April 2, 2012 at 9:52 pm #

    TURKLE:
    I’ve made it clear what definition I’m using for “faith”. No reason to argue semantics. You understand what I’m saying.

  215. turkle April 2, 2012 at 9:57 pm #

    Not sure what to make of this. Do you believe him?
    He’s a software expert. Why should I believe what he has to say about the climate and energy, especially these kind of flippant assertions? Software is a completely different game than the meat world. There all problems (in the domain at least) really are solvable. You just need to put in the right codes, and, whalla, Facebook.
    If he truly believes these things, I’m happy to pidgeonhole him as just another blind, techno-optimist.
    I mean, nuclear? Really? After what happened in Japan?! Any moronic monkey can see that wind and solar are far more safe than nuclear, even if they have their own problems of scale and intermitancy. You’re never going to make hundreds (if not thousands) of square miles uninhabitable to humans with a wind or solar farm. I mean…duh.
    Environmental problems will be “solved” with technology, just like writing some computer code to “solve” the problems of the back office. Presto, chango! As easy as one-two-three. We’ll just install a few of those atmospheric processors like in that movie Aliens, minus the, uh, flesh eating xenomorphs with acid for blood. Then we can dump whatever we want into the atmosphere and clean it up later. The future is bright, I tell you what!

  216. rippedthunder April 2, 2012 at 9:59 pm #

    Mother Earth Heh? ya gotta love her or she will put you done like the lavae which we are!
    http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html

  217. rippedthunder April 2, 2012 at 10:01 pm #

    sorry should be larva

  218. turkle April 2, 2012 at 10:07 pm #

    Is the movie Aliens really a metaphor for the unintended consequences of technology? You terraform a planet and make the atmosphere breathable but didn’t think you’d get a spaceship full of facehuggers in the deal, didja!?

  219. Inquiring Mind April 2, 2012 at 10:08 pm #

    Yes, nuclear will prevail. So what about Chernobyl and Fukushima. This happens in the course of progress. Man fails his way to success. (How many airplanes crashed and how many people died as a result as man was perfecting heavier than air flight technology? And look where air travel is today.)
    They’ll build nuclear plants in the proper locations, they’ll be safety factor upon safety factor implemented, they’ll use thorium (safer and cheaper) and they’ll progress and evolve and evolve. Nuclear waste will be solved too.
    Solar and wind will be useful but will never reach a high level of power and will only be a small part of our future energy. New solar will arrive. But these need fossil fuels and rare earth minerals to be manufactured and maintained, so this isn’t workable.
    It will be a nuclear world. Man will perfect it. Dirty, smelly fossil fuels will be considered prehistoric (no pun intended).

  220. turkle April 2, 2012 at 10:10 pm #

    You seem pretty confident. Are you some kind of time traveler from the future? Steven Hawking says that isn’t possible, BTW, so my guess is you’re just blowing smoke.

  221. k-dog April 2, 2012 at 10:17 pm #

    I’ll take the weekly burial starting early as a complement. I have noticed they like to post after me but to be absolutely sure a proper statistical analysis would be needed. I don’t imagine sales of clothes or handbags do very well here. I wonder why they bother?

  222. asoka. April 2, 2012 at 10:30 pm #

    Turkle, yes I know your stand.
    A belief is a superficial mental construct not necessarily based upon experience. I do not hold a belief in my mind that there will be a sunrise tomorrow, but I do have faith (based on previous experience) that we will have a sunrise.
    Seems like an important distinction to me, but we will continue to disagree about this, and that is fine.

  223. rippedthunder April 2, 2012 at 10:32 pm #

    “So ZaDeekah, why do you pull up this page?” Some of us just like to shoot the shit and bust balls, and also share a little common knowledge.! “Bite me asswipe!” Also, by the way where the fuck did you show up from?”

  224. k-dog April 2, 2012 at 10:35 pm #

    He wants to license the solution to you and being as he is a believer in technology and a citizen of the world he naturally believes that technology will solve all the problems that technology creates. He can’t see that he is a dog chasing his own tail because as Kaiho Iwasaki earlier quoted:

    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”

    – Upton Sinclair
    Gates does not know he no longer needs a salary and never will though he would strongly disagree. Never has he struck me as one to comprehend introspection and the bigger picture. He knows how to make money win and exploit. To know if there is any more to him I’d have to meet him personally. So far I haven’t seen it.

  225. turkle April 2, 2012 at 10:36 pm #

    soka, I don’t like arguing about definitions of words and concepts when they aren’t the commonly understood ones but some arbitrary redefinition based upon personal feelings or some such.
    In no way is it an expression of ‘faith’ to believe that the sun will rise tomorrow, because this assumption is based upon previous experience, which constitutes solid evidence.
    If you said that you have ‘faith’ in Jesus’s return to Earth, well, now we’re talking.

  226. Inquiring Mind April 2, 2012 at 10:42 pm #

    Not a time traveler. I agree that isn’t feasible. I study the human mind and spirit and have performed many experiments in this area (not going to discuss this as my experiences and results wouldn’t be accepted) and I’ve studied a lot of history.
    I’m not blowing smoke any more than you are. Just expressing my opinions, just as you are. There is no guarantee that I’m right any more than you are right.
    Yet, I think I am right. Otherwise I’d be espousing the opinions that you do.
    My difference from you is that I agree with and recognize the situations that you are concerned with, yet I envision solutions for them.

  227. Inquiring Mind April 2, 2012 at 10:47 pm #

    If you actually experienced something like this first hand it would indeed be a game changer, a paradigm shift for you in the realm of spiritual and mental power.
    Then you’d have more respect for yourself and faith in you life. You’d understand the ultimate power of thought and see that it is indeed senior to the mechanics of the physical universe.






  228. rippedthunder April 2, 2012 at 10:48 pm #

    Hey Turk, I don’t know about mataphors but Ripley is hot in her gauchies!






    I’m too old to be watchin’ this shit

  229. WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot April 2, 2012 at 10:51 pm #

    It’s almost like this Inquiring Mind guy is playing the over-the-top caricature of the opposing point of view game…
    But, sadly, I think he is serious.
    It’s just like you say…we have lost our sense of tragedy and our awareness of limits. Im 27 years old and I see it plainly in my parents’ generation. Hubris, plain and simple.
    I like to think back to one of my favorite movies: Back to the Future II. Came out around 1989, I think, and featured scenes set in the then-distant future of 2015.
    What did the year 2015 look like in this film? We had fusion-powered flying cars, hoverboards (my favorite), capsulized expanding food, and we seemed to have conquered that pesky problem of dust and pollution in general. Incidentally, the communications gadgetry was forecasted quite realistically, but this is about all the filmakers got right.
    My point? At the time – just 23 years ago!- everyone thought this conception of 2015 would be proven at least somewhat realistic. Well, hows that looking now?
    Just look at the 1930s world’s fairs, sci-fi from the 50’s, etc.
    Many of us are stuck in fantasies of techno-utopianism. We need to take stock of just what technology is and what it isnt.

  230. turkle April 2, 2012 at 10:55 pm #

    All arguments, or opinions as you call them, are not equivalent. Some are better than others. I can argue that the moon is made of green cheese, but it is a very poor (and wrong) argument. Someone who said it is made of moon rocks has a much better (and correct) argument. Some opinions are right, and some are wrong. I’m so sorry if that hurts your feelings, but that’s life.
    Your visions of a George Jetson nuclear future where man is perfected do not even constitute arguments. They are merely delusional ravings based upon wishful thinking and blind optimism. Ditto for your fantasies about limitless nuclear energy and billions of skyscrapers and trillions of humans to go up and down the (presumably nuclear powered) elevators.
    What I’ve been saying in my posts is (primarily) grounded in science, e.g. that there is a predicted rise in global average temperature from GW, extrapolating from current climate conditions and carbon emissions, using scientific modeling. From these models, I can predict that there are likely to be catastrophic changes in climate that will have a huge effect upon humanity.
    In this case, my so-called opinions are based upon scientific findings, whereas yours seem to be based on nothing more than a personal desire to see Star Trek come true.
    If you can’t see the difference between one and the other, it isn’t even worth arguing with you.

  231. k-dog April 2, 2012 at 10:55 pm #

    You said:
    We’re going to continue with the system we have until we can’t.
    And then there will be nothing to replace it with and everybody dies. People here want humanity to survive but we have to educate and enlighten people so bullies like you don’t decide death for all. We have to do everything we can to soften the coming blow because that is the morally correct human thing to do.
    Our claims are not obvious and beyond question. Serious dogs think and question claims all the time. I would like the evidence not to be out there but unfortunately it is. That you do not know of any ‘evidence’ shows you question nothing.

  232. Inquiring Mind April 2, 2012 at 11:04 pm #

    That was just a stupid movie from idiotic Hollywood. Totally insignificant. Ridiculous concepts. Yet you draw conclusions from it?

  233. Inquiring Mind April 2, 2012 at 11:09 pm #

    As if Science is the end all and be all. The spirit and the mind are senior I’m afraid. They are already discovering that in Quantum Physics.
    The ideas that passed for science back in the 1400’s and were accepted and presented by the “great minds” of the day now turn out to be fairy tales and BS. Don’t you think that can still happen?

  234. k-dog April 2, 2012 at 11:10 pm #

    I’m not as advanced as you.
    You said: The ultimate power of thought and see that it is indeed senior to the mechanics of the physical universe.
    I’m not advanced enough to go without food shelter and clothing and use thoughts to nourish and sustain me as you can. I find I need real food or I won’t be thinking about anything.
    I also wish my knowledge of science technology and man was as developed as yours because my thoughts get blocked by the physical laws of the universe when I think of fanciful cornucopian technical delights that could turn the vicious circle one more time.

  235. turkle April 2, 2012 at 11:11 pm #

    It is completely insane to think that only the mind limits the possiblities of what can be done. That’s the philosophical territory of religious nuts, insane dictators, and the mentally ill. The universe is governed by laws that you and I cannot change with our minds, bodies, actions, or technology. If my mind decides that I can fly, and then I jump out a 10 story window, no matter how hard I try, I will end up splattered on the ground below. That’s the universe at work: laws and limits. You cannot overcome them. You work within and with them.
    Take your example of air travel, which is, I agree, an amazing technical accomplishment. But it is all based upon physics, materials engineering, and other hard sciences. We don’t fly because we will ourselves above nature with our minds. Or, at least I don’t. Too tiring, for one. My arms start to cramp up after about 5 minutes of hovering like a hummingbird.
    Similarly, flying birds have nothing special in their minds that allows them to fly and break any basic laws of physics. Their bodies were just engineered that way by good old Evolution.
    Am I getting through here? Probably not…

  236. turkle April 2, 2012 at 11:13 pm #

    If that were the case, I would have already reached across time and space using my mental fusion with the internet to slap you in the face, in order to knock some sense into you.
    Or maybe I’m just not thinking hard enough…

  237. turkle April 2, 2012 at 11:15 pm #

    Then can you use the amazing powers of your advanced, superior mind to conjure me up a ham sandwich right now? I’m getting rather hungry.

  238. WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot April 2, 2012 at 11:16 pm #

    I use the film to illustrate the absurdity of the attitudes and beliefs underlying your techno-utopian fantasies. The attitudes and beliefs that made it seem like a realistic forecast of the future.
    Is that so hard to understand?
    “The spirit and the mind are senior I’m afraid. They are already discovering that in Quantum Physics.”
    Christ…

  239. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 11:19 pm #

    Thorium is happening only in Elon Musk’s mind, An Inquiring Mind. In terms of nuclear in the real world, passively cooled LWR is where the technology is headed.
    http://www.nuscalepower.com/ot-How-NuScale-Technology-Works.php
    But, by-and-large, fossil fuels is what the world’s leaders have put their chips on to power the world economy out to 2100. 500 ppm CO2 is baked-in-the-cake.
    Weird things start happening up around 500 ppm CO2.

  240. Vlad Krandz April 2, 2012 at 11:24 pm #

    Japanese girls go for the Black Look – big use of tanning salons. Just heard today that their advent in the 70’s coincided with huge increase in melanoma. In Japan too I wonder? Whites are more vulnerable of course, but they said that when dark skinned people get it, they don’t respond to treatment as well.
    http://amren.com/news/2012/04/black-lifestyle-in-japan/

  241. Inquiring Mind April 2, 2012 at 11:24 pm #

    Turkle:
    Here is key data regarding the whole concept of “global warming”… which proves that it is a fraud and based on the hidden agenda of certain individuals.
    If you have fixed ideas and a strong intention “to be right” and an agenda to support, then don’t bother listening as you have a barrier to learning. If you have an open mind by all means listen to the interview.
    http://www.financialsense.com/financial-sense-newshour/in-depth/2009/10/24/ian-plimer/heaven-and-earth

  242. Inquiring Mind April 2, 2012 at 11:30 pm #

    I never said that. You misunderstand me. Of course there are the laws of the physical universe. Man uses them to conquer the physical universe.
    There are other universes.
    Do you want mustard on that ham sandwich?

  243. Inquiring Mind April 2, 2012 at 11:37 pm #

    Kaiho,
    Look at my full sentence…
    they’ll use thorium (safer and cheaper) and they’ll progress and evolve and evolve.
    If thorium doesn’t work they’ll find something that does. Man will go through the same process as he did with steam, electricty, air flight, space travel, etc. etc.
    He’ll “fail” his way to success.
    It took Edison 3,000 attempts to get the light bulb to work.

  244. asoka. April 2, 2012 at 11:42 pm #

    In no way is it an expression of ‘faith’ to believe that the sun will rise tomorrow, because this assumption is based upon previous experience, which constitutes solid evidence.
    ==============
    I cannot know with 100% certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow.
    There is no belief system that can provide me 100% certainty. Believing is shallow and ineffectual anyway.
    I am part of a vast, vast cosmos. I am in control of only a tiny set of variables. I do not in fact know what is going to happen next.
    However, based upon previous experience, I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow …
    I could be wrong.

  245. k-dog April 2, 2012 at 11:43 pm #

    But do we really have enough to get the PPM even that high? I know if all the coal were burned along with all oil and gas we might get that high but a much coal is actually going to turn out to be unrecoverable, too hard to get.
    I find it interesting how discussions of resource depletion pretty much get turned around to banter over climate change. The solution to both problems have much in common but the issues and implications are not exactly the same.
    It seems climate change is much easier to talk about, less scary.
    Of course overpopulation hardly ever gets mentioned at all.
    What do you think?

  246. BeantownBill April 2, 2012 at 11:44 pm #

    But the point is that there should be much more R&D funding for thorium reactors. You are correct where nuclear technology is currently heading, but that doesn’t make it a smart move. Unfortunately, TPTB have a stake in the current path and don’t want to head off in different directions.
    Fusion technology hasn’t yet been perfected, but it doesn’t mean that it can’t, even if it takes another 50-75 years (I doubt it will take that long, as computers become more powerful, much experimentation will be done via modeling to overcome the plasma bottle problem). So why can’t thorium reactors be developed in less time? The physics is known, it’s just the engineering that needs developing – I think. It seems less intractable than fusion issues.

  247. BeantownBill April 2, 2012 at 11:48 pm #

    Well, Asoka, FYI,I just removed the sun. Forecast for tomorrow: Very dark and cold.

  248. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 11:48 pm #

    No matter which direction nuclear goes, there’s still those Three Degrees of Warming to consider:
    http://www.global-greenhouse-warming.com/3-degrees.html
    Lovelock has the most likely global warming scenario out to 2100 nailed down pretty well, I think.

  249. k-dog April 2, 2012 at 11:49 pm #

    Your expert is a paid shill. Are you?
    From the article:
    “Both of us pressed him to answer the question. So Plimer said that neither of us had read his book. We both replied that we had and pressed him again.”

  250. Kaiho Iwasaki April 2, 2012 at 11:55 pm #

    Oh, yes we do have enough carbon to get the ppm that high.
    In addition to world leaders’ firm commitment to fully process all the Canadian tar sands oil and everything that remains in the Middle East, all that carbon in the warming Siberian and Alaskan permafrost is in the process of being unlocked as we speak.
    And, of course, don’t forget all those methane hydrates in the ocean, just waiting to melt and outgas into the atmosphere.
    By 2100, we’ll be back in the Eocene.

  251. asoka. April 2, 2012 at 11:57 pm #

    LOL!
    But there are people who believe three days of darkness will happen this year:








    Belief can be completely detached from empirical evidence, just a mental construct. Faith cannot be detached from experience.

  252. Inquiring Mind April 3, 2012 at 12:04 am #

    Hey why don’t you just give up now and save yourself the trouble. Shoot yourself in the head.
    It’s been fun. This is a site filled with people stuck in doom and gloom who have no faith in themselves or humanity. Completely bogged down by “science” and “limitations” with no acceptance of the fact that humanity is always changing and evolving and solving.
    Your leader, JHK is a hyper-critical and negative individual. Look what that state of mind has done to his health. If someone can’t take care of and have a healthy personal environment (body), I surely wouldn’t be listening to their thoughts, ideas and projections about the outlying environment.
    I only read him because he is a true wordsmith and I enjoy and laugh at his prose, imagery and extended vocabulary. Yet, I don’t agree with his fatalism.
    I’ve learned a long time ago that I get a lot further and do a lot better in life if I put my attention on what I want and not on what I don’t want. The power of thought and intention is something that many people have no awareness of. They will as time goes by and it becomes agreed upon “science”.
    I’m willing to experience what is coming. I will take responsibility for it. I know we’ll overcome our obstacles, no matter the setbacks or difficulties.
    I’m not planning on pushing a plow around in a field, raising my own chickens, reading by candle or lamp light, making my way only because I have gold and silver coins, or driving a Fred Flintstone car. If that’s what you want then keep thinking about it.
    Adios amigos!

  253. azgog April 3, 2012 at 12:04 am #

    Our educational system has failed to pass on some basic truths, such as the Laws of Thermodynamics and the concept of Entropy. If you burn your kitchen chair you will not only never sit in it again you will never be able to recreate it from the ashes. We will never be able to stuff all the radioactive particles back into the Fukushima reactors. Once the easily obtained oil has been pumped and burned it is gone forever and the harder stuff will soon bump up against the EROI barrier where it might as well not exist at all.
    The tradition of American exceptionalism has lead to the era of the naive techno-optimists who keep repeating “they’ll think of something” but have no idea what that might be. We have squandered much of our fossil fuel inheritance racing 500hp race cars in circles and making plastic pumpkins and disposable diapers. The problem with new sources of energy is that they all require massive support from cheap oil to build or manufacture. The nuclear industry is highly dependent on oil to mine, refine, transport and fabricate fuel rods, not to mention building the reactors and dealing with the tons of poison left over.
    Time is not unlimited, choices must be made. If we don’t possess the basic understanding or political will to make the right choices then we will make the wrong ones. As we are doing right now with our failure to reduce CO2 emissions – we are actually increasing them. But denial comes easiest (esp if your salary rides on it) – maybe you’d like to invest in this cold fusion black box I have in the basement?

  254. k-dog April 3, 2012 at 12:09 am #

    Yes, that pesky permafrost. Thanks

  255. anti soak April 3, 2012 at 12:12 am #

    ‘Do you believe him’?
    Are you crazy? I mention him because the Media
    treats Celebs as experts! what do actresses know about Nutrition? politics? etc.
    If folks think hes Infallible [the new Pope] Good Luck!
    Nukes safe energy!! hahahaha

  256. BeantownBill April 3, 2012 at 12:12 am #

    i really love the conversations today. Technology: Triumph or doom?
    My $.02: The stock market is analogous to technology. The stock market has been going up since 2009 and will continue to do so until it doesn’t; technology will continue to advance until it doesn’t. Go with the trend.
    Man is a problem-solver and a tool-maker. It’s hard-wired into the species since it developed a large pre-frontal cortex and opposable thumbs. We may not act wisely or timely, but we’ve solved most of our problems in the past. Go with the trend – there’s no reason to believe we won’t solve our current problems.
    To those who think our problems are unsolvable, I say name me a real problem facing mankind, and I can give you a solution. It’s not the science and technology that limits us, but the will and the proper direction. No, I’m not into New-Age stuff, but people can do more than they thought possible if they don’t give up.
    If I’m wrong, then we’ll all die, but at least I won’t be waking up every day with a cloud of dread over me. And talking about the stock market,I will hedge my survival bets.

  257. anti soak April 3, 2012 at 12:15 am #

    Turk is very experienced in twisting others words.
    Hes a genius in some ways.
    Global warming, whats the other pole? The next Ice Age? When will that happen?
    I am listening to yr link now!!!!

  258. anti soak April 3, 2012 at 12:16 am #

    Cute, yeah Gates is a jerk.
    He does what he can to bring more ‘workers’ in…
    not give the jobs to Us citizens.
    And his ‘charity’ is to Africa.

  259. k-dog April 3, 2012 at 12:19 am #

    “Our educational system has failed to pass on some basic truths, such as the Laws of Thermodynamics and the concept of Entropy.”
    I could not agree more and am delighted someone finally said entropy. Knowledge of entropy is essential to really understand the solutions. The book I’m reading “Too Smart For Our Own Good” begins talking about it in chapter one – Scientific Ground Rules.

  260. Inquiring Mind April 3, 2012 at 12:30 am #

    Oops! I missed this post. Just read the article. Interesting. I’ll have to watch the video interview.
    I’m not a shill.
    There have been global warmings before. There weren’t cars, dry cleaners or factories around then. Explain that.
    The pollutants that man is sending into the atmosphere are not a positive thing, and they will be reduced as we go forward, and progress is already being made in this area.
    The seas are not going to cover the continents and the whole planet isn’t going into a century cycle of drought and we are not going to perish. I know that is unfortunate for the doomers and gloomers.

  261. Mike Moskos April 3, 2012 at 12:34 am #

    Consider this: The FEC, a private railroad, is about to drop $1 billion a passenger route between Miami and Orlando.
    Someone clearly understands where fuel prices are headed and what it will do to driving. Orlando is the #1 most visited city in the US and Miami is #5; there are about 50 million trips every year between the 2 cities. The FEC was originally started by Henry Flagler who made his first fortune in oil, then built a railroad all the way down to the Florida Keys.

  262. Buck Stud April 3, 2012 at 12:36 am #

    ” You will become what you think about. You are what you think you are.”
    This is not exactly new territory Inquiring Mind. In fact it’s that same old regurgitated optimism from the various New Age seminar scrap bins that have been going on for the last few decades, give or take. A sales pitch designed to delude the individual that they can transform themselves into autonomous magicians unaffected by greater societal envelopment. ”
    And you too will be able to walk barefoot…blah,blah,blah.
    It’s also a social hierarchy propaganda tool designed to divert mass consciousness from the stratifying structures of society and lay all blame on the lone individual for success or failure. Because, as you assert, “you are what you think you are”. And if things go sour in life, well look no further than oneself.
    In my opinion,what you’re pumping is a rather perverse and deluded form of solipsism.
    Solipsism:
    1.Philosophy . the theory that only the self exists, or can be proved to exist.
    2.
    extreme preoccupation with and indulgence of one’s feelings, desires, etc.; egoistic self-absorption.

  263. cobwebs April 3, 2012 at 12:38 am #

    Dear 3rd,
    I suppose you count notes at the symphony, too?

  264. Kaiho Iwasaki April 3, 2012 at 12:38 am #

    Neither Triumph nor Doom, Beantownbill.
    Barring deux ex machina (the timely arrival of aliens truly interested in our well-being), the most likely scenario for humans is a Long Descent a la John Michael Greer.
    “Don’t shoot! I’m not a member of the Eastern Coalition!”–Capt. Jean Luc Picard (Star Trek VIII–First Contact)

  265. turkle April 3, 2012 at 12:49 am #

    Ah, did I hurt your feewings, soaky?
    I’m glad you’ve finally acknowledged my genius and sorry if I’ve “twisted your words”. Perhaps if you provide an example of such I can untwist them for you.

  266. turkle April 3, 2012 at 12:52 am #

    I like the way you roll, brother.

  267. Inquiring Mind April 3, 2012 at 1:02 am #

    Man I can’t get off this site…
    Black Stud:
    I’m not a new age jerk. And none of what you say describes me.
    Just put it all in perspective and don’t try to twist my words or make me look like an idiot, which seems to be the game on this site.
    All I’m saying is mind power, positive thinking, persistence and faith in myself and abilities have proven to be much more workable than with having the opposite mindset. I find that the more responsibility I take the better things go for me.
    I’m not saying that I walk through walls, have X-ray vision or have the power to run my internal combustion engine on happy thoughts. Geeesh!

  268. BeantownBill April 3, 2012 at 1:02 am #

    Your post seems to me to echo the longtime disrespect between scientists and engineers. All great ideas have begun with a thought. Einstein used thought experiments to develop general relativity. Even practical reactors must begin their existence with a paper and pencil. The truth is that engineers wouldn’t have anything to build without someone putting a concept on paper, and scientists wouldn’t see their ideas put to use without engineers.
    Hyman Rickover was a brilliant man. His disdain wasn’t heaped on scientists, but rather politicians. He was a harsh, impatient man who didn’t suffer fools at all.

  269. turkle April 3, 2012 at 1:05 am #

    “There have been global warmings before. There weren’t cars, dry cleaners or factories around then. Explain that.”
    Is your brain not wired correctly or what? I’m beginning to lose count of all the logical fallacies you’ve committed on here, just in one day.
    Just because A causes B in one instance doesn’t mean that A is the one and only possible cause when B occurs at some other time and place.
    To wit, say that Inquiring Mind goes sailing off of a building because someone pushed him (I won’t name names), and his mental powers aren’t sufficient to levitate himself so he splatters all over the sidewalk.
    This doesn’t indicate that someone pushing you is the only way to go flying off a building. You could have jumped or perhaps been buffeted by a strong wind. Or maybe you slipped and fell.
    Get it?
    No one is denying that GW has occurred in the past. The question is what causes it now? And mainstream science argues that mans’ activities are doing it. The science is basic and easily understand, at least by reasonable people. It is the greenhouse model (assume you’ve heard of it).
    If you want to argue that sun spot cycles, volcanic activity, climate cycles, or the end of the Mayan calendar are causing the current round of GW, the onus is on YOU to prove it. Why would you assume that climatologists do not take this all into account?
    Oh, and I (briefly) looked at the Wikipedia page for the author of the book you cited. According to it, he has changed his mind since writing the book and acknowledged that man-made GW is occurring. Smart guy. He isn’t a climatologist, BTW, but a geologist.
    Isn’t it funny how we’re gone from all truth being relative or just “opinions” to me supposedly being a mentally defective imbecile because I don’t agree with your non-mainstream pet theory about how the world works. Funny that.

  270. turkle April 3, 2012 at 1:07 am #

    “make me look like an idiot”
    If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, …

  271. BeantownBill April 3, 2012 at 1:09 am #

    As has been stated before, who knows who’s right? It’s a matter of opinion, really, because the future doesn’t exist yet.

  272. Inquiring Mind April 3, 2012 at 1:10 am #

    I can’t believe that you pushed me off a building.

  273. turkle April 3, 2012 at 1:18 am #

    That was merely an example. Of course, I’d never do such a thing. Perhaps it popped into my head because you’re always talking about covering the earth in skyscrapers.

  274. asoka. April 3, 2012 at 1:23 am #

    same old regurgitated optimism from the various New Age seminar scrap bins that have been going on for the last few decades
    Decades? Centuries. This country was founded on such optimism. And before the New Age stuff of the 70s, there was plenty of popular culture stuff like Napoleon Hill’s THINK AND GROW RICH which was published in 1937. Clap trap all of it, including the new versions like “The Secret” and “Law of Attraction”
    I’ll take Old Age over New Age any day.
    Advaita Vedanta, for example, based on Rig Veda, 7000 years old (5000 BC or earlier), which is older than Judaism with its miraculous parting of the Red Sea, burning bushes, etc. What crap.
    I can’t go for that Judaic-inspired New Age miracle religion called Christianity either, water into wine, loaves and fishes, virgin births, etc. What crap!

  275. turkle April 3, 2012 at 1:24 am #

    RE: John Michael Greer
    I dunno about this silly “archdruid” business but this is one humdinger of a blog post…
    http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2012/01/waking-up-walking-away.html
    Quite apropos to our discussion above on technology and civilization.

  276. Inquiring Mind April 3, 2012 at 1:25 am #

    TURKEY:
    Don’t worry. I’m really leaving now.
    You are immersed in “logic” and “the sciences” and “the laws of the physical universe” and these are your boundaries. Supposedly fixed and never changing.
    I don’t ignore or discount these factors. I just know there are higher forces at work. Things change. Man evolves.
    There isn’t much truth in our civilization. It tends to dive out of sight in this universe. Today everything is upside down and backwards. Many ill-intentioned individuals and groups have made this so in economics, medicine, mental health, education, etc.
    What is white is now black and what is fiction is now fact.
    We’ll see how things turn out.

  277. Inquiring Mind April 3, 2012 at 1:31 am #

    Damn another post to respond to. Boy, I’m popular. Everybody likes me.
    What is this skyscraper stuff you keep talking about? I never said anything about skyscrapers, all I said was that man will manage to have way more than 6 trillion people on this planet. I think you’ve got me confused with someone else.

  278. turkle April 3, 2012 at 1:35 am #

    I don’t think anyone here is arguing that mental outlook has no effect on how you interact with the world, just that thinking by itself is not able to nullify or bypass the basic laws of the universe, which is pretty much an obvious, a priori truth.
    Otherwise, we’d all be walking through walls and teleporting. I myself would go with X-ray vision or the ability to stop time. That would be entertaining.

  279. turkle April 3, 2012 at 1:36 am #

    Yeah, there was this one guy awhile back. Maybe you’re not him. My mistake, if so.

  280. turkle April 3, 2012 at 1:38 am #

    “all I said was that man will manage to have way more than 6 trillion people on this planet”
    Wow. Have you run the numbers on that, just in terms of the indoor plumbing? It is not possible.

  281. Inquiring Mind April 3, 2012 at 1:39 am #

    Exactly, that is all I’m saying TURKEY. Except that I put a bit more emphasis on the power of thought.

  282. Inquiring Mind April 3, 2012 at 1:44 am #

    How many times in history has a person said “that is not possible” and then whadda ya know, it turned out to be possible.
    This is a big planet. There are a lot of creative geniuses, thinkers, innovators and engineers, scientists, inventors, artists and organizers here. And there will be many more.
    I can’t predict the future. Man will solve the “problem” of plumbing. Either ahead of time or he will be forced to as a result of crisis.

  283. Buck Stud April 3, 2012 at 1:54 am #

    Well, I’m not as old as you Asoka.
    You’re so old that Norman Vincent Peale probably signed your book ;)

  284. cobwebs April 3, 2012 at 2:02 am #

    Naked eye astronomy and rat eaters make for a retired man who breathes easily~~~old FD proverb

  285. Inquiring Mind April 3, 2012 at 2:07 am #

    Goodnite from the snowy mountains of California.
    We are immortal. No matter what happens here on earth, or in this physical universe (an illusion), we will all continue forward into eternity.
    We all live in and own our own universe.

  286. metuselah April 3, 2012 at 8:03 am #

    I cannot know with 100% certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow.
    ==
    Yes, you do. It will. And you will make it so.
    Human nature is very predictable. That’s why those who understand human nature know how to game the game.

  287. budizwiser April 3, 2012 at 8:03 am #

    As many of you know – there’s little point in making a post. Too many details clutter each idea, each theory.
    For instance – if I say something about the current necessity of harvesting oil from below the ocean – Asok will confirm that this proves that additional ways of harvesting oil will increase in the future.
    If you make a point for any mathematical limitations of resource consumption correcting the current comfort and status of the human race – it is assumed to be a natural phenomena – with no need for preparation of cooperation of management.
    You see, even in a Clusterfuck – there are optimists that heed higher values than the ideas that common people deserve and even chance in their future.
    All is well – move along. Its not too hot yet – enjoy the weather.

  288. Widespreadpanic7 April 3, 2012 at 9:41 am #

    Hey West Coast I read that Mother Earth News feature about the Rancher who runs his oversized pickups on Wood. He seems to be some sort of shade tree mechanical genius, which most of us ain’t. As a matter of fact, ’round here, you’d be hard pressed to find anybody who could do anything mechanical beyond working their TV remote and installing light bulbs. No, we’ll be running our vehicles on gasoline for a long time yet. And after the gasoline runs out, after complaining and blaming everybody and everything, we’ll be hoofing it.
    Drive by Truckers out of Georgia perform songs that deal with the topics we cover here. Ozone, on XCountry (Satellite Radio) heard Neil Young cover that song you do so well, with the refrain “everybody knows, everybody knows …” Did you write that?
    –WSP7

  289. ozone April 3, 2012 at 9:44 am #

    May I not “do something” and bitch at the same time?
    Sorry if that doesn’t fit inside your bubble of benevolence, but there I be… ;o)
    Remember that Tripp is REALLY busy in that regard, and his criticisms of bidnez-as-usual are damning (at the mildest).

  290. ozone April 3, 2012 at 9:52 am #

    Hey RT!
    These little UK babies were only larvae when Canned Heat ripped this one up. It’s a very cool stripped-down version, rockabilly style.
    (Keep Q away from this; the bent-over snare-banging is reeeeevealing for those fascinated with woman lumps! ;o)






  291. ozone April 3, 2012 at 10:04 am #

    “Many of us are stuck in fantasies of techno-utopianism. We need to take stock of just what technology is and what it isnt.” -WTF
    Yep, the limits of energy availability is what runs the engine of the cosmos, and all our dreams of progress or utopia bang up against it in the final analysis.
    Now, sure, our present methods of tapping that energy are pretty crude, so room for improvement is a given…

  292. ozone April 3, 2012 at 10:12 am #

    Azzie,
    Excellent post.
    I heartily agree that time is short and choices get slimmer by the season.

  293. ozone April 3, 2012 at 10:23 am #

    “Man is a problem-solver and a tool-maker. It’s hard-wired into the species since it developed a large pre-frontal cortex and opposable thumbs. We may not act wisely or timely, but we’ve solved most of our problems in the past. Go with the trend – there’s no reason to believe we won’t solve our current problems.” -BTB
    There is one huge overlay that is my main gripe with the present “trend”. Can you guess what it might be? (I knew you could. ;o)
    We’re either going to play, “Suicide for Dollars”, or “Housekeeping for Survival”. I think we understand that the flim-flams, scams, schemes, Ponzi-s, rackets, deceptions and cons are reflections of the former, and they are the stock-in-trade of those who hold the power and run the world. THAT, my friends, is the current TREND, and they also control energy production and how it’s used. Until this “trend” is eradicated, those who cry DOOM are the more correct and informed about the true nature of mankind’s direction.

  294. asoka. April 3, 2012 at 10:23 am #

    Nice post, Ozone.
    We haven’t even begun to fight.
    Our survival is at stake, so you can be sure we will be tapping into what runs the engine of the cosmos in ways currently unimaginable. Ways that overcome entropy. (say what? that is unimaginable!)
    Just as it was unimaginable that velocity could exceed the speed of light … until it was done.
    (L J Wang et al. 2000 Nature 406 277)

  295. drx32li23 April 3, 2012 at 10:26 am #

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  296. ozone April 3, 2012 at 10:49 am #

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    That’s the “trend”. I refuse to jump aboard this grifters’ bandwagon. Turn outs, once the profit-addled investors’ brain-fog clears, that bandwagon is a garbage truck, full to the brim with toxic waste and toxic ideas.

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  298. ozone April 3, 2012 at 11:08 am #

    WSP,
    Good point about the loss of talent and knowledge in the wrenchin’ department. I happen to think of it as involving much more intuition than most would acknowledge. I have no talents in that area; I tend to make things worse with my meddling! (It’s good I have a sympathetic and kindly neighbor; he makes me do the work, but tells me what and what NOT to do.)
    As to this:
    “Drive by Truckers out of Georgia perform songs that deal with the topics we cover here. Ozone, on XCountry (Satellite Radio) heard Neil Young cover that song you do so well, with the refrain “everybody knows, everybody knows …” Did you write that?”
    –WSP7
    Lawdy, no! But don’t I wish… ;o)
    Leonard Cohen. “Everybody Knows”. Great tune; my version tends a little in the direction of Concrete Blonde and a bit more punch; Cohen’s original is quite smoooooth with some really sweet flamenco-esque guitar fills for extry atmosphere!
    Will look into Drive-by Truckers stuff; thanks for the tip.

  299. Kaiho Iwasaki April 3, 2012 at 11:14 am #

    John Michael Greer is probably the most profound writer on the Post-Peak Oil scene, and the particular posting you link to is positively sublime. He makes a powerful case for why most people should just begin to walk away from the industrial, consumer society and head in the direction of “reducing your needs to zero”. That’s easier said than done, of course, but he has a ton of practical advice for how to do just that.
    And he’s absolutely right when he says that one of the first thing a great many people need to do is get rid of the car, and use other forms of transportation to get around (and rent a Zip Car when you absolutely need to use a car). A lot of younger Americans are doing just that.

  300. Kaiho Iwasaki April 3, 2012 at 11:26 am #

    As has been stated before, who knows who’s right? It’s a matter of opinion, really, because the future doesn’t exist yet.
    Yes, but some opinions about the future are MUCH better informed than others. John Michael Greer’s, for example. His simple recognition of the fact that the decline of fossil fuel resources is gradual, not sudden, is an important piece of evidence for his claim that the descent from industrial civilization will be considerably more gradual than many Peak Oilers (Post-Peak Oilers now) are willing to admit.
    It’s much more likely to be a long, slow downward grind than one sudden fall out of an airplane from 40,000 feet (with no parachute).
    Do make it a point to read his blog, the Archdruid Report, whenever you can.

  301. Widespreadpanic7 April 3, 2012 at 11:51 am #

    Hey Kaiho Iwasaki, Greer has some pretty good insights, but what’s up with the white robes, strange headgear, and curious interests in UFOs. Has he appeared in Noury’s radio program C2C?
    –WSP7

  302. anti soak April 3, 2012 at 11:52 am #

    ‘Napoleon Hill’s book’…Did you know he lived in Poverty? [hahahaha, what a huckster Hill was].
    Maybe if he’d ‘Worked and saved to riches’…
    No, too logical.

  303. Kaiho Iwasaki April 3, 2012 at 11:52 am #

    But the point is that there should be much more R&D funding for thorium reactors. You are correct where nuclear technology is currently heading, but that doesn’t make it a smart move. Unfortunately, TPTB have a stake in the current path and don’t want to head off in different directions.
    Passively cooled LWR, a la NuScale, is a very smart move, Beantownbill, for no other reason than that the entire world has an enormous amount of experience with LWR that can be taken advantage of. The chief drawback of LWR to date has been their need to be actively cooled. Passive cooling solves that problem. That’s why there’s so much interest in moving forward with this approach.
    Passively cooled LWR really is the safest way to do nuclear.

  304. anti soak April 3, 2012 at 11:56 am #

    Id like to know who they are?
    Spider ? Old whats is name? just buggin us?

  305. mika. April 3, 2012 at 12:00 pm #

    Hamas Top Dog:
    “Palestinians” are an invented people!
    http://t.co/Y7hzWDNI
    Hamas Minister of the Interior and of National Security Fathi Hammad Slams Egypt over Fuel Shortage in Gaza Strip, and Says: “Half of the Palestinians Are Egyptians and the Other Half Are Saudis” Al-Hekma TV (Egypt)
    ==
    Of-course, the fuckers at the CIA and their propaganda outlets like to hide this from people, but there you it.

  306. mika. April 3, 2012 at 12:01 pm #

    there you ^have it

  307. Kaiho Iwasaki April 3, 2012 at 12:03 pm #

    I believe he has appeared on Noury’s program, widespreadpanic7. In any event, his take on UFOs is quite compelling; not an X-Files perspective at all.
    The robes and headgear are part of the religious garb he wears in his religious role. His insight on magic as a psychological, rather than a physical, force is a powerful one, as is his claim that the advanced industrialized nations can be thought of as examples of modern, thaumaturgical states.

  308. k-dog April 3, 2012 at 12:16 pm #

    I take issue with your slow downward grind assertion.
    We participate in the economy to fill needs and there is a difference between vital needs and needs which are not essential for survival. Modern man however often has great difficulty determining what needs are vital and which are not.
    Those on top of the social pyramid continue reaping the surplus of those lower on the social pyramid as production of goods and services declines. The needs of the poor are disproportionately affected because it cuts into their ability to meet vital needs. Food, shelter, clothing, home heat, medical care, stuff like that. Fulfilling vital needs takes the lions share of the poor’s budget.
    The affluent may have to buy smaller boats but these are not vital needs. They can bitch and moan and do but as their vital needs are not affected they deserve zero sympathy.
    In times of growth the poor get by somewhat OK. In times when the economy is flat life for the poor gets rather miserable. If the economy is in actual decline life of for the poor becomes horrible.
    It comes down to being able to meet vital needs. The affluent continue to take what is theirs (the surplus of the poor) leaving the poor nothing to meet vital needs with when times get tight. This leads to a rapid collapse of society through revolutionary processes as the bottom of the social pyramid becomes unable to meet vital needs.
    A ‘let them eat cake’ dynamic evolves and then the pyramid goes down hard.
    Often in the past bush meat filled the gap. I have a squirrel named Silvester living in my backyard redwood tree and a raccoon named Rocky prowls my yard at night. Together they would give only one or two days sustenance and raccoons tend to have parasites and should be avoided. Besides they are unofficial pets and I want to leave them alone.
    K-DOG for president.

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  310. ozone April 3, 2012 at 12:22 pm #

    12 noon, and the klaxon sounds.
    Time to get biddy, you cammy-clad keyboard warriors!
    Right the fuck on time.
    I’d recommend that you ask the colonel for some new material; that shit is getting so old that it’s covered with a thick mat of fungal growth.
    It’s not germane, it’s not relevant, and, frankly, not very interesting. The schtick is tired and worn-out as a 2 dollar whore on a Sunday morning with the Fleet in town.

  311. ozone April 3, 2012 at 12:24 pm #

    BTW,
    There YOU have it.

  312. k-dog April 3, 2012 at 12:25 pm #

    Somebody bugging us for sure but who? Whoever it is they need a life.

  313. Kyooshtik April 3, 2012 at 12:39 pm #

    If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, …
    ===========
    The expression is “quacks like a duck, …”

  314. Kaiho Iwasaki April 3, 2012 at 12:50 pm #

    Now we get a bit more into the details.
    The decline of a civilization is rarely anything like so sudden for those who live through it. It’s a much slower and more complex transformation than the sudden catastrophes imagined by many soical critics today. — John Michael Greer
    Think of world-wide industrial civilization’s “Long Descent” as analogous to the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire never actually “collapsed”, in the sense of a sudden TEOTWAWKI. Its decline followed a pattern of a sharp crisis (of some kind) followed by a period of relative stability (at the new, lower standard of living), followed by another crisis, period of relative stability, etc..
    The most-likely scenario is that industrial civilization is going to follow a similar path.

  315. Kaiho Iwasaki April 3, 2012 at 1:00 pm #

    On the topic of climate change, China’s uncanny ability to successfully deploy SO2 scrubbers at their new and existing coal-fired power plants sets the stage for global temperatures to breakout from the relatively flat trend of the last decade, to new, record-breaking levels.
    http://www.princeton.edu/mae/people/faculty/socolow/china-rapid-deployment-so2-scrubbers.pdf

  316. k-dog April 3, 2012 at 1:06 pm #

    The ingredients for a Roman cesare salad did not come from 1000 miles away. Now days if trucks don’t move people starve. We have an order of magnitude difference in complexity from the Romans. Circumstances are different. Our house of cards is more fragile than theirs ever was.
    We also managed to fuck the pooch in a bit over 200 years. The time scale of the Romans empire was much much longer. Complexity makes the clock tick faster.

  317. Kyooshtik April 3, 2012 at 1:14 pm #

    Just as it was unimaginable that velocity could exceed the speed of light … until it was done.
    (L J Wang et al. 2000 Nature 406 277)
    ===========
    The jury is very much still out on this and I’m betting it’ll all end the same way as the “cold fusion” wet dream did a couple of decades ago. See below.
    http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/head-faster-light-neutrinos-team-resigns-16038220

  318. Kaiho Iwasaki April 3, 2012 at 1:17 pm #

    The process of decline will indeed go faster than it did for the Romans. In their case, it took about 1200 years for the entire thing (West and East) to end. For industrial civilization, 200 years is a generous allowance, as it passes through various phases (abundance industrialism, scarcity industrialism, salvage industrialism…).

  319. Kyooshtik April 3, 2012 at 1:31 pm #

    The schtick is tired and worn-out as a 2 dollar whore on a Sunday morning with the Fleet in town.
    =============
    ^That’s a funny line.

  320. asoka. April 3, 2012 at 2:52 pm #

    Cold fusion has not yet “ended.”
    Jean-Paul Biberian surveyed 15 years of cold fusion research and concluded that nuclear reactions that are not predicted by current theories were occurring in cold fusion reactors.
    Positive results with excess heat and neutron emission are enough to prove that the cold fusion phenomena is real. Those few experiments with negative results don’t count because they could be caused by flaws in the setup, and you can’t prove an idea false by simply having a negative replication.
    Recent accelerator experiments on fusion of various elements have clearly demonstrated that the effective cross-sections of these reactions depend on what material the target particle is placed in. In these experiments, there was a significant increase in the probability of interaction when target nuclei are imbedded in a conducting crystal or are a part of it. These experiments open a new perspective on cold nuclear fusion.
    SOURCE: Tsyganov, EE 2012, ‘Cold nuclear fusion’, Physics Of Atomic Nuclei, vol. 75, Issue 2.

  321. BeantownBill April 3, 2012 at 3:14 pm #

    There are trends within trends, but I didn’t want to get complicated. I’m talking about an historical mega-trend here.
    The one flaw I see in TPTB conspiring to get ever richer and powerful and not caring what happens to the rest of the world, is that it makes no sense to want to rule a destroyed world. Ruling from underground refuges or walking around with gas masks and SPF-zillion lathered-on sunscreen is not how I would want to live my privileged life. I have to conclude that TPTB know that solutions will be implemented. As you may already know, I’m not big on conspiracy theories.

  322. BeantownBill April 3, 2012 at 3:38 pm #

    I don’t begrudge you the fact that passively cooled LWR seems to be a big improvement. And maybe it will take too long to get thorium reactors on-line. But to me, fission reactors of any sort are at best a stopgap until solar power satellites with Earth-based rectenna farms, and nuclear fusion reactors are made practical. Yes, it will take a lot to get there, but ultimately, as long as we do have stopgap alternatives, we’ll succeed.
    Yeah, I know this seems childishly optimistic pie-in-the-sky science fiction. I am a rational adult, not a fool. But I am an optimist, as well. What good is life if one cannot dream big dreams and act on a large stage? I like to keep my feet firmly planted on the ground, while my head is in the clouds.

  323. asoka. April 3, 2012 at 3:41 pm #

    Avigdor Lieberman told the Israeli daily Yedioth Ahronoth:
    If, God forbid, a war with Iran breaks out, it will be a nightmare. And we will all be in it, including the Persian Gulf countries and Saudi Arabia. No one will remain unscathed.
    Ooops, there goes another oil-producing country. (to the tune of High Hopes)
    If TSHTF. Hello, TLE.

  324. anti soak April 3, 2012 at 3:44 pm #

    Are the Israelis an ‘invented’ people [UN creation]?

  325. asoka. April 3, 2012 at 3:49 pm #

    anti soak, that is above my pay grade.

  326. BeantownBill April 3, 2012 at 4:01 pm #

    This whole FTL neutrino episode is like an instruction manual on how science works. We have a brilliant team of physicists employed at the world’s foremost particle physics sites carefully designing and building equipment for a complex experiment. Anomalous results are obtained that contradict current theory. The design and equipment are triple-checked and nothing wrong can be found. The results of the experiment are stunning, and as extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs, the elite team asks for help from other experts in the field in determining whether or not mistakes have been made.
    The original scientists made no absolute claims; they just stated they got an unexpected result, triple-checked it and the results stood. They requested verification from other scientists. The team didn’t call the Enquirer to say they had just overthrown Einstein’s theories of relativity.

  327. mika. April 3, 2012 at 4:12 pm #

    Israelis are over 4,000 years old. Over a thousand years older than the white racists that came from Asia to settle in Europe.

  328. mika. April 3, 2012 at 4:16 pm #

    Israelis are over 4,000 years old. Over a thousand years older than the white racists that came from Asia to settle in Europe.

  329. asoka. April 3, 2012 at 4:17 pm #

    Even Einstein allowed for speeds of at least 10,000 times the speed of light in quantum non-local connection (what Einstein called spooky action at a distance).
    There is so much that we have yet to discover, to confirm, to utilize, that it boggles the mind. We are but infants when it comes to science, and a glorious childhood awaits.

  330. asoka. April 3, 2012 at 4:34 pm #

    4,000 years?
    Hmmm… I thought it was around 930 BCE when the southern Kingdom of Judah and a northern Kingdom of Israel were created. That would put Israel’s age at under 4,000 years.
    Still, the Rigveda is at least 1,000 years older. Philological and linguistic evidence indicate that the Rigveda was composed in the north-western region of the Indian subcontinent, roughly between 1700–1100 BCE (the early Vedic period). The Rigveda is far more archaic than any other Indo-Aryan text.
    The Rigveda derives from the Proto-Indo-Iranian times, often associated with the early Andronovo culture of ca. 2000 BCE (20 centuries BCE).
    The Hebrew language doesn’t go back that far. Hebrew flourished as a spoken language in the kingdoms of Israel and Judah (7 to 10 centuries BCE).
    Standard Biblical Hebrew appears around the 8th to 6th centuries BCE, much later than the Rigveda, which was composed between 1700–1100 BCE.

  331. Kaiho Iwasaki April 3, 2012 at 4:40 pm #

    There is so much that we have yet to discover, to confirm, to utilize, that it boggles the mind. We are but infants when it comes to science, and a glorious childhood awaits.
    asoka, you should read John Horgan’s book about this topic sometime. It’s very thought-provoking.
    http://www.amazon.com/The-End-Science-Knowledge-Scientific/dp/0553061747

  332. asoka. April 3, 2012 at 4:47 pm #

    I don’t agree with the premise that we are reaching the limits of knowledge. Knowledge is like a circle illuminated by a beam of light. The more knowledge, the larger the circle.
    Note that as the circle of knowledge enlarges, the perimeter where light touches darkness also grows.
    The more we know, the more we realize we don’t know. The more questions we answer, the more new questions arise.
    I rely upon this circumference of ignorance to provide a never-ending fodder for the growth of knowledge.
    The metaphor I have presented defeats the idea of a “limit” to knowledge.

  333. Kaiho Iwasaki April 3, 2012 at 5:00 pm #

    I’ll give you a chance to read the book first, asoka, so you can draw your own conclusions. As you’ll see, contemplating the possibility of the End of Science (by which Horgan means the End of Scientific Revolutions) is quite thought-provoking.

  334. mika. April 3, 2012 at 5:16 pm #

    I thought it was around 930 BCE when the southern Kingdom of Judah and a northern Kingdom of Israel were created.
    ==
    Yes, the David’s kingdom is about 3,000 old. But we had 400 years of Judges prior to David. Prior to that we had another 400 years of Egyptian slavery. And prior to that we about 100 years of Abraham and his descendants living in Hebron and Be’er Sheva. That adds up to about 4,000 years.
    They also found proto-Hebrew inscriptions in the Sinai on the walls of copper mines that are about 4,000 years old (1900 BCE). These inscriptions make a direct reference to Elohim (the god of Israel). So all the cultural/national identifiers were already there 4,000 years ago.

  335. Kyooshtik April 3, 2012 at 5:23 pm #

    Note that as the circle of knowledge enlarges, the perimeter where light touches darkness also grows.
    =============
    Please state your source for this circle of jerk ;-) metaphor. It’s some old dark Indian sitting in the lotus position wearing what appears to be a diaper… right?

  336. Kaiho Iwasaki April 3, 2012 at 5:42 pm #

    Here’s a good description, from the horse’s mouth, of what the Long Descent means in practical terms over the next few years.
    http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2012-01-11T20:19:00-08:00&max-results=7&start=6&by-date=false

  337. Cavepainter April 3, 2012 at 5:45 pm #

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  340. Just Say No April 3, 2012 at 6:06 pm #

    No politician could ever win an election on promoting high priced oil, but high priced oil might actually save our society. It will force most of us to get serious about conservation. Walking and bike riding will become more prevalent, which will help reduce our obesity epidemic. The exo-burbs and McMansions will suffer a slow death as people move closer to their work and buy smaller houses within walking distance of public transportation. Our love affair with big cars and even bigger trucks will finally end. We’ll see more locally grown food. Countries like Iran will no longer be relevant.

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  342. progress2conserve April 3, 2012 at 7:15 pm #

    All right, JHK! You’re back in the saddle, again.
    Keep us updated on your medical concerns, but for now let me say that it’s good to see that all of the cholesterols, triglicerides, and lipids of various other sorts – have not dimmed your brain, nor stopped your magnificently manifested massive mounds of metaphor.
    “…the USA is enjoying one last gulp of a very expensive oil cocktail with the last few dollars it can prestidigitate out of the central bank’s magic box, and then there is no more even notional surplus wealth to blow….” -JHK-
    Wow, over the fence, out of the park, and through the windshield of the truck that was on the service road behind center field!
    Keep up the good work, JHK, and thanks to you, as always.
    A couple of interesting new poster identities this week as well. And a couple of folks are trying to get us back to the sort of battles that make this webspace uniquely interesting.

  343. progress2conserve April 3, 2012 at 7:28 pm #

    “Over population? Another fraud. This planet will support 50 trillion people.”
    -an inquiring mind- (AIM)
    AIM, you will have to forgive some of us when we say that you sound just like the recently departed 8M/Olde soixante-neuf/Tegmark.
    If you’re not him, then disregard some of this, but TRILLIONS, dude. Large numbers trip a lot of people up. One trillion is one THOUSAND billion.
    And the planet is gasping under the weight of 7 billion human souls.
    One trillion people would be 993,000,000,000 more people than we have now.
    50,000,000,000,000 people – ok, then.
    That might tax, even, the ability of our Resident Lover of All Things Human – trying to love all of those people without limit.

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    ===============
    My guesses:
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    2. She has 2 eyes on one side of her head and none on the other

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  346. ozone April 3, 2012 at 9:04 pm #

    I understand that you didn’t want to pile on too many factors in your original assessment, but I still posit that the trend of massive fraud holds equal weight with your altruistic technological pursuit trend.
    “The one flaw I see in TPTB conspiring to get ever richer and powerful and not caring what happens to the rest of the world, is that it makes no sense to want to rule a destroyed world. Ruling from underground refuges or walking around with gas masks and SPF-zillion lathered-on sunscreen is not how I would want to live my privileged life. I have to conclude that TPTB know that solutions will be implemented. As you may already know, I’m not big on conspiracy theories.” -BTB
    Beans,
    I’m not so certain they know any such thing, and I’m a little surprised that you don’t consider arrogance and hubris to be the ultimate set of blinders. Mind-set will do the trick as surely as any hardened conspiracy, IMHO.
    Sorta like carelessly knocking over the punchbowl at the party, then expecting someone else to not only clean up the mess, but to refill the bowl with more sweet swillage as well. Our “leading lights” are become the world’s most dangerous three and four-year-olds.
    Be advised that I didn’t mean to drag you away from your original posting of a positive mega-trend, it’s just that I see one equally as large in a negative direction that’s been happily cranking along for nearly a century! (Speaks more to my outlook than most anything else. ;o)

  347. Vlad Krandz April 3, 2012 at 9:39 pm #

    Very profound. He’s right: I want it over now so I don’t have to keep worrying about money. I want the fun to start. I’m hoping the Maya were right. 12/22/12 is our last best hope. If it just all continues without catastrophe, we are sure to lose all our rights as the Elite become more tyranical. And then there are the Camps built for Conservatives. But they could “serve” the poor just as well.

  348. Buck Stud April 3, 2012 at 11:31 pm #

    The tyrannical elite and “Camp Conservative”. I can see it now, a rabid band of militant feminists lowering a roped Rush Limbaugh into the crocodile pond. Snap, crackle, pop… goes the hot air balloon.
    Isn’t it ironic, that so many readers from this site worry about money as they indulge in their proclivity for misanthropy. And yet, Doom Kunstler has a rather impressive column of potential income streams on the right and bottom placements of his webpage. I noticed that An Inquiring Mind failed to note this irony amidst his condescending declarations, but I wonder if you have also failed to notice? You have previously stated that you have bought JHK’s books so you’re obviously aware of his hard work and hopefully well-rewarded efforts.
    But what’s a by-the-bootstrap conservative like you doing lamenting finances on a communicative medium that is the equivalent of the Wild,Wild West? You’re a smart guy and an idiosyncratic writer. Why not holster up those six shooters and take aim. And who knows, if you aim patiently and precisely, you too might wake up in the morning to see how much money you earned while sleeping.
    But if I was King you wouldn’t have to concern yourself with such worldly affairs; people such as yourself shouldn’t have to. I would take a page out of Spider’s book and have you spend your days doing something truly worthy, like explicating and analyzing the works of your beloved Kierkegaard. But that’s the liberal in me speaking.

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  351. tucsonspur April 4, 2012 at 12:14 am #

    I was beginning to think stupefying grind, with you hurling what appeared to be an unending salvo of optimistic ordnance, and I was almost prematurely critical. But then my mind phrased the inquiry, “who am I, at this Easter time, to crack the shell of this optimistic egg and make it a tasteless, overdone omelette?”
    This gave me pause, which gave me reflection, which reminded me of David Deutsch’s book, “The Beginning of Infinity”.
    In it he states, …”every putative physical transformation, to be performed in a given time with given resources or under any other conditions, is either:
    – impossible because it is forbidden by the laws of nature; or
    -achievable, given the right knowledge”.
    So, fill your Easter basket with optimism, but remember that not only chocolate bunnies are eaten.
    If you found a book titled “Optimism and the Grave”, would its author be I. Dide Laffing?

  352. tucsonspur April 4, 2012 at 12:30 am #

    Hi BB, your cup of common sense seems to be running over. Might need a bowl.
    In line with your comments on science and engineering, you reminded me of a little something I did quite some time ago. Here it is:
    Visions roll the wheel and light the fire
    Thoughts become Gothic spires
    A brush of pen
    A stroke of pliers
    Ideas of skyscraper steel
    Rivets forged in mind’s desire.

  353. Vlad Krandz April 4, 2012 at 12:41 am #

    The Jews were just a small part of the Semetic Sub Race. Toynbee didn’t believe they warranted being called their own Civilization, but rather just one nation in the Syrian Civilizatin.
    They got writing from a larger Semetic People, perhaps the proto Phonecians.

  354. Vlad Krandz April 4, 2012 at 12:49 am #

    Thank you Buck, I appreciate that. I don’t think I should have to work either in the pork belly sense. But alas, properity is not in my stars: I have a stacked deck with too many Jacks but not enough 6’s and 7’s.
    Like Hitler, I refuse to get a job. I await Destiny’s call. Too bad we don’t have more doss hauses. The pavement is a hard pillow. Oh well, that’s a few years away and perhaps the Dealer will let me pick up a few new cards.

  355. Buck Stud April 4, 2012 at 12:54 am #

    Tuscon…very impressive. Thanks for sharing!

  356. tucsonspur April 4, 2012 at 1:06 am #

    Praise from a heavyweight, I feel like drinking Champagne!

  357. tucsonspur April 4, 2012 at 1:11 am #

    Hope you catch’em, Vlad. Whatever makes your hand.

  358. Bustin J April 4, 2012 at 1:18 am #

    AIM is not who he appears to be.
    AIM said “Man predicts consequences Planetary Deathand comes up with solutions Conservation of Energybefore the problem Rising Carbon Dioxide levels manifests.
    Sometimes Man The First World misses the boat Doesn’t Mitigate Carbon Dioxide Rise and a crisis arises Global Warming.
    This raises his “necessity level” Panic Button and he is then forced to solveForced to solve the problem in short order.”
    Some fates can’t be solved, only avoided. Because if fate turns to reality, we have by definition not avoided it; rather we are already in it. We are limited at that point to other fates the current reality doesn’t preclude.
    By the time we are moved to necessity we are by definition, too late.
    People don’t seem to understand that the billions upon billions of BTUs of solar heat the Arctic sea is absorbing isn’t real damage to the Earth’s equilibrium.
    The most naive among them simply can’t believe it will affect them in their lifetime.
    This is a new species of Global Warming Denier.
    By extension, people who deny action on Global Warming are the
    part of the problem.
    Look in the Mirror, dude.
    You are the cause of Global Warming. You are the person driving the drought, bringing the pestilence, the misery, and the horror. Otherwise there would be political will to change course, and even try to implement the “solutions” you suggest are even possible.
    “…or create a stop gap measure Injecting the atmosphere with Silicon Dioxideuntil the problem Rising Temperatures can be more effectively handled Less Chaos at a later dateWhich is unimaginable.”
    Solutions continue to become more sophisticatedComplex and dangerous because of the closeness of the Event Horizon.
    Every year that goes by, the problem becomes harder to solve.
    “We’ve been through ice ages, droughts, famines, pestilences, plagues, world wars, etc. etc.
    Have faith.”
    Did… faith “Solve” any of the problems mentioned above?
    Faith that solar panels will appear on my roof is like faith that Health Care will be available when I’m dying? No, people have to “fight” for their rights. How about today? Can you fight for your rightS?

  359. Bustin J April 4, 2012 at 1:21 am #

    So, to sum up, most people are global warming deniers. Either as primary causes or by inaction.
    The real percentage would probably be well over 90%, and in the US that would not include bums.
    Homeless people, people without capital, are the true heroes as they walk lightly on the Earth.

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  361. Vlad Krandz April 4, 2012 at 3:01 am #

    Dagny Taggert gets wet reading such words! All things are having intercourse at all times. What is a screw after all? Each one cost $10 in Navy Contracts.
    Take it to a higher level and adore the Feminine but beware the Female. Women – do the same for us and all will be well again.

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  363. ak April 4, 2012 at 5:27 am #

    This year’s calendar is the same as 1984.
    No looking, but how many calendars there are? (Ie, how many do you need to serve forever?)
    [no cheating]
    ^

  364. ak April 4, 2012 at 5:28 am #

    retry:
    Last line says ^<

  365. ak April 4, 2012 at 6:06 am #
    America's collective imagination swerves from one breakdown lane to the other while the highway patrol throws a donuts-and-porn party down at headquarters and the news media searches the gutter on hands-and-knees looking for the spot where it dropped its brains.
    

    Hear-hear!
    ^<

  366. Widespreadpanic7 April 4, 2012 at 7:32 am #

    Last nite on Kudlow T Boone Pickens predicted $125 per barrel oil in the near term.
    Still, this morning on the various financial news outlets everyone remains pretty chirpy and optimistic. The ‘recovery” is well underway. There’s no stopping it. WE’RE COMING BACK!!!
    The Trevon Martin episode seems to be dying down. Pretty soon there’ll be some other red herring, bullshit controversy to take its place. You can count on it.
    Hey Vlad, I’m just finishing up Peter Longerich’s new bio of Heinrich Himmler. At 750 pages it has to be the final word on the Reichsfuhrer SS. Your outlook appears to be pretty similar to what his was.
    –WSP7

  367. ozone April 4, 2012 at 8:04 am #

    “Hey Vlad, I’m just finishing up Peter Longerich’s new bio of Heinrich Himmler. At 750 pages it has to be the final word on the Reichsfuhrer SS. Your outlook appears to be pretty similar to what his was.
    –WSP7″
    Well, I find that reassuring. He lived to the ripe old age of, lessee… oh yeah, 45. How did he go out again? Oh, that’s right…
    (Don’t worry about giving away the ending; we can google it. Google is already busy with a “good ‘Merkin” database, of which H.H. himself would be justly proud.)

  368. ozone April 4, 2012 at 8:08 am #

    “No looking, but how many calendars there are? (Ie, how many do you need to serve forever?)” -ak
    I have no idea; do tell!
    That’s an intriguing bit of arcana, BTW.

  369. Widespreadpanic7 April 4, 2012 at 8:32 am #

    Hey O did you check out DBTers?
    –WSP7

  370. ozone April 4, 2012 at 8:42 am #

    Hey now!
    While most of the great land of ‘Murka is busily in the process of losing everything [including its’ “shit”], the intelligence-gathering apparatus is the go-to GROWTH sector of the gum’mint recovery!
    How kewl izzat, neighbors? Utah, you say? Why there, we query?
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30973.htm
    Theory? It ain’t no theory, goddammit, it’s about the yottabyte of the collective thought-crimes. Enjoy your stay at the Himmler Hilton.

  371. ozone April 4, 2012 at 8:50 am #

    Yep, very good stuff! Nicely subversive. ;o)
    Man, the lead singer gots hisself some high tenor; good vid from Austin City Limits.
    Not sure how much of their crank would come through solo-like. Might be a case of the sum of the parts being greater than the whole, eh?
    Fr’instance, on “Righteous Path” the lead is accomplished with mostly one note! They can get away with that; not sure I could.

  372. mika. April 4, 2012 at 9:00 am #

    Toynbee didn’t believe they warranted being called their own Civilization, but rather just one nation in the Syrian Civilizatin.
    ==
    I don’t know who Toynbee is and why I should care, but your Toynbee character is sounds like nothing more than a political hack. If what you say is true, his/her nonsense would parallel me saying that the American civilization didn’t warrant being called its own civilization because it is just another nation in the larger Latin civilization. If one can’t discern the uniqueness of culture, philosophy and outlook on life and way of life, and everything that’s derived from that, then really there’s no point to even bother with such obvious political hacks.

  373. mika. April 4, 2012 at 9:00 am #

    your Toynbee character sounds like nothing more than a political hack

  374. ozone April 4, 2012 at 9:12 am #

    Another should/could/would thesis on what might be done about the Clusterfuckian idea of “money” and its’ use and abuse.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30972.htm
    I’m not too sure it makes much of a difference if we tolerate/don’t tolerate bid’nez as usual, the levers of legislation and the judiciary are certainly not in the hands/interests of the commons.
    Are we entranced and enslaved? More so with each passing day?
    Fill ‘er up, Mac, and check the oil; I’d like some service fer my hun’ert bucks…

  375. trippticket April 4, 2012 at 9:15 am #

    Just wanted to post a photo update of our move into temporary living quarters in the north Georgia mountains, as we gear up for our biggest farmers market season yet in all new markets, and a few years of cob cottage building. It’s quite the place!
    http://smallbatchgarden.blogspot.com/
    Stop by if you can.
    Cheers, CFN dudes and dudettes!
    Tripp

  376. ozone April 4, 2012 at 9:20 am #

    …And, I had forgotten to add: Is the “public” of today best served by itself? Does it really know what’s good for itself, or has it been entranced and enslaved to a point where it robotically believes the bullshit dispensed by money-grubbing arch-criminals?
    …And, can that question be looked at dispassionately?

  377. ozone April 4, 2012 at 9:26 am #

    Will do.
    Good to “see” yez! Hope everyone is having some fun (whistle while you work). :o)

  378. charliefoxtrot April 4, 2012 at 9:31 am #

    ha ha, nice try there, kyoo-check…actually, she flounders about in my bed with genuine enthusiasm, and has the most beautiful slate-blue eyes you ll ever see…

  379. trippticket April 4, 2012 at 10:35 am #

    I was having lunch at my favorite little Japanese joint in south Georgia yesterday while Mr. O’s address was entertaining the national status quo on CNN. As little TV as I watch these days, I found it curious that by the end of the address I was actually believing that there was some sort of substantial difference between the left and right in this country. (Even more curiously, I found myself wanting to cast my vote for the right’s austerity plan.) And that was really the difference that was being outlined by the Prez: the left wants to take care of you all, no matter how much it costs a broke nation to do so; the right, with their evil social Darwinism, wants to destroy you. Knowing that we can no longer afford all the social and corporate support programs that made us what we are (thank god), it’s hard to throw my lot in with the left on this one. Having used unemployment money and food stamps to bridge the gap between the old existence and a brand new one, I also find myself hoping that that option remains viable for the few people who will use it wisely.
    But the real problem is the official story. If people keep thinking that recovery is underway, they will keep clinging to a dying way of life. Knowing what’s really going down, one can take the pittance he’s scraped together, and the other pittance of government support, and make a go of it in a far smaller, more localized economy. But only if he knows that’s where we are headed. That’s the real mis-deed being perpetrated by TPTB today. Energy descent probably isn’t that awful; the details will work themselves out quite nicely I think. But it’s a big problem for people who think that the fossil fuel bonanza will continue after this short time out.
    JHK and several others do a marvelous job of keeping their readership tethered to reality, and the comments section here always has plenty to offer people who are taking the future seriously, whether it’s guidance in homescale food and energy production, general social changes due to economic contraction, or mental food for thought about the end of the age of abundance and the death throes of agricultural society.
    Thank you, Mr. Kunstler!

  380. orbit7er April 4, 2012 at 10:56 am #

    JulettaofOhio – presuming you are from Ohio – there are still plenty of tracks all over Ohio. Of course your Teabag Gov John Kasich cancelled the Rail project to finally restore passenger service from Cincinnati to Dayton to Columbus to Cleveland on existing tracks and right of way. Although this project was listed as part of Obama’s “High Speed Rail” initiative in fact it would have just restored ordinary 90-100 MPH passenger service in only 2-3 years and would have been due for completion next year or so. Except Teabagger Kasich nixed it. It should be no surprise that Kasich’sTransportation Head is a former head of the Paving lobby in Ohio. ;-)
    Like the rest of the US Ohio actually has tracks and Rail rights of way all over the State. You should check out the Rail Maps Atlas for details.
    To wit I know there are intact Rails from both Northeastern and Northwestern Cincinnati to the downtown paralleling I71 and I75 some of which used to serve and still run through Proctor and Gamble’s huge complex there.
    As usual it is simply a matter of getting rid of Paving contractor Transportation heads or Koch Bros funded teabaggers like Gov Kasich to get them going again.
    Cincinnati is building a very limited trolley system downtown. At least it is a start but it would make a lot more sense to simply begin running frequent passenger service either commuter rail or lightrail along already existing tracks. As mentioned like the Rails which parallel I-10 from Baton Rouge to New Orleans, these Rails already parallel major Interstates because they were there first and the Interstates were built to take away their transit traffic.
    Tell your Representatives to get the Rails running again!

  381. k-dog April 4, 2012 at 11:38 am #

    They have more yottobytes on me then they do on you. La de dah ha ha ha.
    A couple of years ago I went to Oakland to learn horticultural skills at a most excellent school of ‘higher’ learning. On Monday this school was raided by the IRS, DEA and the U.S. Marshals. Records were seized.
    Some of those yottobytes now be storin info on this dogs valedictorian status earned upon completion of a two day class there a couple of years ago. They can see my mug in the class graduation picture too.
    And so the drug war rolls on. I read somewhere that there are now more black men in prison due to the drug war than existed in the entire country in 1850. If true that sure qualifies as a fun fact. I wonder if quObama takes drugs to make himself look darker than he really is. Didn’t somebody did that to write a book once?
    Richard Lee runs a reputable and profitable school. He makes sure to operate within state and local law. This raid can be understood by understanding that Richard was the driving force behind Proposition 19 a California measure that would have legalized adult use of marijuana in 2010.
    I told Eric Holder last week to look into that business down in Florida last week and now dammmit I have to fire him. When the IRS, DEA and the U.S. Marshal coordinate somebody high up has to have something to do with it. The buck stops somewhere does it not?
    Well I’ll have to wait until I’m elected to do that. You have to fire quObama before I do that. Vote for the dog!!! In the meantime you can help in a small way to fight the injustice and blatant harassment of a political opponent (Richard Lee).
    K-DOG for PREZ!!!!

  382. Kaiho Iwasaki April 4, 2012 at 11:44 am #

    Orbit7er, what happened in Ohio is a perfect example of why JHK so firmly believes the U.S. is truly a CFN. The sheer size of the country–and most of the states–is such that passenger railroads and trolleys should be a no-brainer.
    Perhaps if the current trend among younger Americans to avoid buying a car continues, some of these projects may happen, eventually. And for those younger Americans who really do need some form of regular, personal motorized transport, this could be a golden opportunity to permanently convert them to Vespa scooters (75-90 mpg).
    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/why-dont-young-americans-buy-cars/255001/

  383. Kyooshtik April 4, 2012 at 11:50 am #

    Just wanted to post a photo update of our move into temporary living quarters in the north Georgia mountains
    ==============
    Tripp, I was reading a few entries at your blog and was facinated by the name Tradd Cotter. If I ever write some fiction that requires a character from the deep south that will be his name.
    I don’t know if I’d get rid of those power tools. Physical labor gets harder as you get older.
    Good luck at your new site.
    Q

  384. k-dog April 4, 2012 at 11:50 am #

    My position on cannabis is to decriminalize adult use and possession of non commercial amounts. Growing your own should be a civil right. Commercial cannabis sale should be regulated and subject to local control. – DUH

  385. Kaiho Iwasaki April 4, 2012 at 11:56 am #

    Meanwhile, back at the oil companies, U.S. East Coast refineries are closing permanently due to fundamental changes in the domestic oil and gasoline market.
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2012/04/120404-northeast-us-refinery-closures-gas-prices/
    Isn’t that amazing?

  386. Puzzler April 4, 2012 at 12:40 pm #

    That’s easy — 14.
    What’s my prize?

  387. anti soak April 4, 2012 at 1:33 pm #

    What will the material costs for yr new house be?
    And who owns / occupies the Macon Place?
    The future will be DIY!

  388. anti soak April 4, 2012 at 1:36 pm #

    Found this online and wanted to share.
    Looks like the gullible goyim subsidizes cheap labor in Israel:
    Since the end of 2000, Arab states have transferred to the Palestinian Authority monthly financial aid of $45 million (since April 2002 this sum was increased to $55 million).
    The European Union (EU) transfers to the PA approximately $9 million monthly. By the end of 2001, the Palestinians had received $4 billion (the figure is now closer to $5.5 billion) since the 1993 Oslo agreements.
    Since the signing of the Oslo Accord in 1993, the U.S. government has committed more than $1.3 billion in economic assistance to the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
    This is the equivalent of $1,330 per Palestinian. By comparison, the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe after World War II provided $272 per European (in today’s dollars).” [emphasis added]
    Mind you, those are just the figures for between 1993 and 2006.
    The amounts have only increased since then despite Gaza knowingly electing an openly declared terrorist government (Hamas).

  389. anti soak April 4, 2012 at 1:38 pm #

    Toynbee, no doubt a goy.

  390. k-dog April 4, 2012 at 2:05 pm #

    I just finished the Oil Article in the April 9th issue of ‘Times’ magazine.
    I have to say it really fracked me up.
    At a pace that ever increases we overpopulate and burn through all the energy on the planet. By so doing we undermine the preconditions of our own existence. This is not opinion it is fact, and the time has come to stand up and admit it or admit instead that you are an idiot.
    This agenda behind this article stinks. Intelligent dogs should read it anyway because the party line shows between the lines.
    Flashback:
    1963 – A filling station on the outskirts of the Twin Cities. K-DOG looks at a sign with a red horse with wings on it below which reads, GAS 34 cents/gallon. K_DOGS dad is filling the gas tank in his green 57 Chevy. The noisy pump rattles and clangs while a short pink stream of gasoline surges from the nozzle into the tank. K-dog looks at the busy road and ponders that all these cars get filled up just like daddy’s car and thinks that a big huge gas pump ghost a mile high with gas coming out of it like water from a sewer is keeping all these cars going.
    Daddy, where does all the gas come from?
    K-Dogs dad says: Oh it comes out of the ground and gets pumped up like water. You know about water pumps don’t you son, there’s one at grandmas house. I showed you.
    K-DOG remembers the pump. Daddy had showed it to him just last week but wouldn’t let him touch it.
    Daddy is there gas in ground where we are standing right now?
    K-Dogs dad somewhat distracted says: Oh no, not here. Then with a flash of interest he says: Trucks bring it here, big trucks. The wells are out west. The pumps are there. It comes out of the ground as Oil and it gets made into gasoline and then trucks bring it here.
    Daddy will we ever run out?
    Oh no son there are huge lakes of oil underground with enough to last hundreds of years.
    K-DOG looks over the field of melting snow across the road and then looks down sad. He knew that this could not be true. Lakes of oil would get filled up because the ground would crash through the lake and if the oil did not come all the way to the top of the ground it could only be between the cracks in the ground. In the tiny spaces between the sand and rocks.
    K-DOG knew that there could not be enough sand filled lakes to keep all these cars moving forever unless the sand filled lakes were everywhere. K_DOG was sad because now he knew his dad did not know everything.

    So here is how it is going to go. The lie will go like this:
    Yes conventional oil supplies are running out but the doomers are wrong. The world is full of oil its just hard to get and it is going to be expensive. Everything is fine, the rich are going to get richer and if you work hard and play by the rules you will too.
    It is all bullshit.
    The article ends quoting quOBama:

    “We’ve got to develop every source of American energy, not just oil and gas but wind power and solar power, nuclear power and biofuels.
    That’s the only solution to this challenge.”

    Seems to me his solution is to talk, do nothing, and let corporations do whatever they want. represent the status-quo.
    The man knows nothing of the pioneering principle, the vicious circle, the limits of growth, population overshoot or die-off not to mention science and math. The man who runs the country is a party on dude don’t worry kind of guy and he is going to kill us.
    America please don’t let it happen again. I don’t want my family to starve. Put someone who has a brain in charge and not another slick smilin bullshit popinjay.

  391. Kaiho Iwasaki April 4, 2012 at 2:05 pm #

    Toynbee:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_J._Toynbee

  392. Vlad Krandz April 4, 2012 at 2:09 pm #

    In other words, I’m wrong. This is what’s called reductio ad Hilterum. If Hitler and the Nazis said something, it’s automatically wrong since they’re the Devil.
    So if Hitler was against the gold standard, the gold standard must be good. If Hitler was for the Nation State, it must be a bad idea. If Hitler believed in the survival of the White Race, we must therefore work for the elimination of the White Race. If Hilter said 2+2=4, we must change mathematics, etc.
    Obama is talking about how Courts can overstep their place – this from a Liberal/Socialist! The Supremes must have voted down the individual mandate in Obamacare and someone leaked it. Good news, at least in the preliminary vote.

  393. Vlad Krandz April 4, 2012 at 2:12 pm #

    Don’t bother the Great Jew. Toynbee was just a goy at best, and perhaps even a Vatican Asset or what he calls me “a Vatican Sith”.

  394. Vlad Krandz April 4, 2012 at 2:15 pm #

    I read that Steve Jobs was ripping off his stockholders at Apple. The Employees got the lion’s share of the profits somehow. At least he shared his ill gotten gains with his comrades.

  395. Kaiho Iwasaki April 4, 2012 at 2:23 pm #

    K-dog quotes Time quoting Obama:
    We’ve got to develop every source of American energy, not just oil and gas but…
    Like I said, the world’s leaders are firmly committed to developing every ounce and cubic foot of fossil fuels that can be developed. IPCC emission scenario A1F1 (Fossil Intensive).
    Eocene by 2100. Guaranteed.

  396. k-dog April 4, 2012 at 2:34 pm #

    Toynbee
    Manic Bloom
    I saw the future, it was dirty
    But I told you it’s clean
    I had a vision we could change it
    With a twist to the human machine
    With blood and water, wood and fire
    I perfect the scene
    Joy electric, live forever
    Now this completes the measure of my scheme
    (Take it back forward)
    I see utopia where skeptics see
    A tick of the clock
    Your chains will keep you far from freedom
    Unless you rise above the streets that you walk
    Get past the lies that paint the skies
    Until you’re left with just rock
    Begin the change already done
    Convection won’t wait for the current to stop
    Let’s take back what we’ve fought so hard to create
    We won’t be remembered for waiting
    There’s no turning back when your fist hits the air
    Cause tomorrow begins starting now

  397. Vlad Krandz April 4, 2012 at 2:35 pm #

    Good article on the Treyvon Martin case. We have passed the point of Peak White Guilt. Even NBC has apologized for lying.
    http://www.counter-currents.com/2012/04/trayvon-and-the-end-of-white-guilt/#more-25301

  398. k-dog April 4, 2012 at 2:40 pm #

    Damn KAIHO don’t make be agree with you.
    Can’t they understand if we don’t take care of the pups it’s all worth nothing?

  399. Vlad Krandz April 4, 2012 at 2:42 pm #

    Eocene? In what sense? Technologically? Or in tems of the lack of surface oil?
    What about using the methane escaping from the Artic? If the Earth farts, who are we to hold our noses?

  400. k-dog April 4, 2012 at 2:45 pm #

    Damn KAIHO don’t make me agree with you.
    So many typos so little time.

  401. k-dog April 4, 2012 at 2:46 pm #

    Actually most appropriately a lack of human beings.

  402. mika. April 4, 2012 at 2:50 pm #

    Thanks, IWASAKI. Basically, a nazi/vatican British imperialist agent. I should have guessed, this coming from Vlad.

  403. Kaiho Iwasaki April 4, 2012 at 2:56 pm #

    Climate, atmospheric CO2 and methane. And the return of those cute, little Eocene horses.
    Trapping the methane escaping from the Arctic is technologically a bridge too far for the 21st century. We’re going to let it outgas into the atmosphere–there’s nothing else we can do. ????????

  404. Kaiho Iwasaki April 4, 2012 at 2:57 pm #

    Oh, there will still be a lot of human beings in 2100. Just not as many as there are now.

  405. Kaiho Iwasaki April 4, 2012 at 3:00 pm #

    The world’s leaders sincerely believe (not everything they do is utterly corrupt) that following a fossil intensive path is the only way to take care of the pups. They can’t really envision any other way.

  406. trippticket April 4, 2012 at 4:43 pm #

    Sir Arthur Eddington, one of the 20th century’s greatest physicists, said it best I think:
    “If your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation.”
    So, qualitatively at least, we know where the end of the fossil fuel age is. When it requires as much energy to extract and refine an energy source as the source provides, it stops being an energy source. To me that hard reality is very reassuring. Watching extraction shift from near-surface, pressurized light sweet crude to low-grade crap like fracked NG and oil shale is like watching the end of the Super Bowl in slow motion when you already know the final score…

  407. Kyooshtik April 4, 2012 at 5:12 pm #

    I read that Steve Jobs was ripping off his stockholders at Apple. The Employees got the lion’s share of the profits somehow. At least he shared his ill gotten gains with his comrades.
    ============
    How so? In what way did he rip off?
    How were his gains ill-gotten?
    Take a look at Apple’s long term stock chart. The avg Apple stock holder is vastly ahead. The stock has doubled in the last year alone.

  408. Kaiho Iwasaki April 4, 2012 at 5:15 pm #

    That’s why 500 ppm CO2 by 2100 is baked in the cake, but 1,000 ppm may not be.

  409. anti soak April 4, 2012 at 5:15 pm #

    ‘Jaego Scorzne
    Posted April 4, 2012 at 1:46 pm | Permalink’
    INDEED, INDEED.
    Cant keep a good dago down.I mean dago.

  410. anti soak April 4, 2012 at 5:22 pm #

    I meant Jaego.
    [as Kdog has said, so many typos, so little time].

  411. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 5:24 pm #

    “man i am so tyred of troglodyte anti-progress types.”
    You and your ilk are the anti-progress types. You want everything to continue on exactly as it is now, unchanged. You expect majikal “tech” solutions to be delivered to you, *just-in-time*, by someone else. *YOU* do not want to put forth any effort whatsoever, in order to progress toward any sort of sustainable/renewable future. You just reap the rewards, and dump the problems on future generations.
    “large-scale tree planting has very positive effects on atmospheric levels of co2.”
    Oh, please – open your eyes. This wouldn’t even come close to offsetting a *fraction* of the annual Amazon Basin clearcutting that is going on, in your neck-of-the-woods.
    “who said we should only plant a ‘few’ trees?”
    I believe these were *your* exact words, “plant a damn tree.”
    “and re googling the latest climate change models…whose models? the ones which show no/no appreciable warming?”
    I suggest you look directly at real/actual/measured data, which involves 3 main trend charts. The first is the annual global temperature trend (going back a good 150 years, maybe look at massive polar region differentials). The second is the global CO2 atmospheric trend (even the ones that goes back 400,000 or 800,000 years from ice cores). The third is the global solar irradiance trend (which shows we have just come out of the ~6 year long solar minimum). If you need to go further, look into radiative absorption coefficients of nitrogen and carbon dioxide, and develop your own simple model using science/physics (maybe throw in snow reflectance).
    “multiply that by millions of trees, or a billion.”
    Assume: ~20,000 square kilometers are clearcut in the Brazilian Amazon each year, ~400 trees per acre in the Amazon. That comes out to *2 billion trees* clearcut EVERY YEAR, just in the Brazilian Amazon…
    And the “no-caps” thang ain’t really helpin’ your argument much, either (but perhaps it helps you mentally, to remember which *sock-puppet* you’re logged into)…
    And, as turkle suggests, I’m not sure any of these nay-sayers even bother going outside, and looking around (or going online, and doing a real investigation, without relying on being MSM spoon-fed)…

  412. tucsonspur April 4, 2012 at 5:29 pm #

    How can the robust male NOT adore the feminine? But yes, the female, the she-cat with claws that can scar, poses a seductive danger. How many have ecstatically writhed with her, limbs entwined, only to have their emotional jugulars severed?
    Dagny Taggert. Nice. I remember Dominique being so hot for Howard I thought she would melt. But there you go. Feminine and the she-cat. Could be a pleasant dilemma.
    Blood and swords.
    What’s with the 6’s and 7’s? A bit above mid-deck or are you thinking zeroes? And jacks? Jacks being knaves?

  413. trippticket April 4, 2012 at 5:37 pm #

    Systems check. Seems like a while since anyone posted, and I don’t want to type a bunch of shit for no reason.

  414. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 5:50 pm #

    Wow, what a total douche-bag. Really? You’re correcting someone’s spelling mistakes from another forum *HERE*?!?
    And how did you miss all of welles’ glaring faults? Do you not read his poasts (or is it a sock-puppet ‘in-character’ thang)?

  415. k-dog April 4, 2012 at 5:53 pm #

    You and your ilk are the anti-progress types.

    Thats very good, The truth is as you know, those who advocate ‘technical solutions’ are actually behind the technological curve and are mired in the past. Ironically they have not actually kept up with intellectual technology.
    They are no better than politicians. Building a sustainable/renewable future would be the greatest technical achievement of all time. Participating in making it happen the best thing one can do. Saving the pack is a satisfying thing to do.
    A similar thing happened at the end of the Mousterian. I’d explain but I have a job interview in a few minutes.

  416. Kyooshtik April 4, 2012 at 6:15 pm #

    Wow, what a total douche-bag.
    =============
    Douche-bag? Perhaps. But total? That’s going a bit too far.

  417. Kaiho Iwasaki April 4, 2012 at 6:21 pm #

    Well, Dennis Meadows, the head of the Limits to Growth team for the past 40 years, has now thrown in the towel. He says that sustainable development is no longer possible; world leaders waited too long.
    His recent powerpoint presentation “It is too late for sustainable development”: is here:
    http://si.edu/consortia/limitstogrowth2012

  418. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 6:33 pm #

    “apparently the earth is facing a huge freezing threat and stopped warming in 1997″
    Really? You’re also going to claim that the global temperature hasn’t changed in the past 15 years? Have you ever done any investigation into the plethora of free data out there yourself, without simply biting, hook-line-sinker, the MSM story-du-jour?
    So if the global temperature has “stopped warming”/gone down since 1997, why is 2010 the highest annual global temperature on record? Why is 2005 the second highest? Why is 1998 the forth highest, behind 2007 in third?
    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2011/12/global-temperature-news/
    climateforce.net/2012/01/21/nasa-2011-global-temperatures-9th-warmest-year-since-1880/
    Might be worth taking all that “stopped warming” data since 1997, and doing a simple linear curve fit. If you’d like, throw in 1996, 1995, or whatever else you think you can include to make the slope zero/negative (*HINT* – you can’t make it non-positive, even by DELETING 1997).
    PS, anyone notice which prediction of mine was just verified as *false* above?!… Hehehe! Solar irradiance isn’t ramping as fast as I thought it would, from the 6 year solar minimum flux. You gotta admit, the recent variability in annual global temps has really tightened up, resulting in the last 6 years’ worth of data butting right up against the max…
    PPS, asoka and his sock puppet multitudes (ya think it’s MPD/DID?)…

  419. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 7:15 pm #

    “They’ll build nuclear plants in the proper locations, they’ll be safety factor upon safety factor implemented”
    LOL!!! Someone obviously hasn’t been keeping up with the investigations of Greg Palast:
    http://www.gregpalast.com/the-fukushima-story-you-didnt-hear-on-cnn/
    And most of these behemoths are on their last legs, being on average 30-40 something years old, with all kinds of cracked piping in the boilers…

  420. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 7:18 pm #

    “Shaw Construction. The latest alias of Stone & Webster, the designated builder for every one of the four new nuclear plants that the Obama Administration has approved for billions in federal studies.”
    (From Greg Palast’s report above)

  421. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 7:56 pm #

    “www.financialsense.com/financial-sense-newshour/in-depth/2009/10/24/ian-plimer/heaven-and-earth
    ‘During past glaciations, carbon dioxide was higher than it is today.'”
    Wow, just *WOW*!!! There is data going back almost *1 MILLION YEARS*, that shows our current CO2 levels are over 33% higher than anything recorded during that period.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carbon_Dioxide_400kyr.png
    Nothing but cherrypicked data in “this book’s 504 pages”…

  422. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 8:00 pm #

    “Do you want mustard on that ham sandwich?”
    Apple cider vinegar and horseradish!!!
    And, FWIW, I always thought that asia and 6969 were more of the said-same DID *sock puppets*…

  423. asoka. April 4, 2012 at 8:15 pm #

    to make himself look darker than he really is. Didn’t somebody did that to write a book once?
    Griffin, John Howard. 1961. Black like me. Boston: Houghton Mifflin.
    The Deep South of the late 1950’s was another country: a land of lynchings, segregated lunch counters, whites-only restrooms, and a color line etched in blood across Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. White journalist John Howard Griffin, working for the black-owned magazine Sepia, decided to cross that line. Using medication that darkened his skin to deep brown, he exchanged his privileged life as a southern white man for the disenfranchised world of an unemployed black man. What happened to John Howard Griffin–from the outside and within himself–as he made his way through the segregated Deep South is recorded in this searing work of nonfiction. Educated and soft-spoken, John Howard Griffin changed only the color of his skin. It was enough to make him hated…enough to nearly get him killed. His audacious, still chillingly relevant eyewitness history is a work about race and humanity every American should read.

  424. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 8:20 pm #

    “But do we really have enough to get the PPM even that high?”
    At this point, it’s really a huge problem of sequestration of CO2. The ocean has absorbed a huge amount of CO2 over the past few decades, becoming quite saturated (and acidic). As the ocean warms, it is forced to release excess CO2 above saturation (think *warm soda pop*). Also, the trees that used to capture air-born CO2 have been clearcut to near extinction (happened in Europe 6-9k years ago, North Africa[Saharan Desert] back 5-8k years ago, same with Turkey/Saudi Arabia/Iraq/Iran/South Asia).
    But you may be correct – once we saturate the atmosphere with a high enough concentration of CO2, it will expand from greenhouse effect, pushing quite a bit of “air” out into deep space, sucking a lot of it all off the planet due to solar wind (out the ozone holes?)…

  425. trippticket April 4, 2012 at 8:38 pm #

    Mother liquor. That’s got to be one of my favorite terms, and I get to use it all the time in my budding business. How cool. I just tinned up number 500 of our best selling market product, and had a half gallon of finished product to save in a big jar until the next round. But it all started the day as mother liquor. Just want to say it one more time…mother liquor.
    Mother liquor. That’s me. Though she wasn’t a mother when I met her.

  426. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 8:38 pm #

    “If someone can’t take care of and have a healthy personal environment (body), I surely wouldn’t be listening to their thoughts, ideas and projections about the outlying environment.”
    LOL!!! Perhaps because the *UNDERLYING ENVIRONMENT* is exactly what has placed (him) us _ALL_ in this same, sickly, filthy predicament?
    You do realize fully that all drinking water contains *GHAD*-only-knows-what traces of organic GMO/chemical compounds that recycle and concentrate, as a result of all the poison/prescriptions (we) _YOU_ *flush* into our drinking water?!?
    And _YOUR_ GMO crops, requiring ever more pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizer, are contributing even more to the runoff/x-pollination problem? Such a *HOLIER THAN THOU* posture, indeed. Take your faith, and cram it. I need no belief in some superpredator that requires my prayers in order to be ‘saved’.
    OK, soker, we’ll let you kill *this* sock puppet off – for now.

  427. progress2conserve April 4, 2012 at 8:42 pm #

    “…sustainable development is no longer possible; world leaders waited too long.”
    -KI-
    He’s right, Kaiho, with a degree of certainty that approaches 100%. Just too many damn humans, and new young billions in India and China that want consumptive lifestyles and have zero interest in “sustainability,” however that word, and that concept, translates in Mandarin or Hindi.
    I’m enjoying your posts, BTW, and I hope you stick around and keep posting. And that YouTube on the Kamikazes was really something. And it lead me to other videos on Japan in WWII. I didn’t know so much movie footage had survived the war. I appreciate the reverence in which Japan holds her war dead. We could all gain something from trying to understand that.
    Those who do not learn from the past…..

  428. asoka. April 4, 2012 at 8:48 pm #

    OK, soker, we’ll let you kill *this* sock puppet off – for now.
    ==============
    All your sock puppets are belong to me. [sic]

  429. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 8:55 pm #

    Hey, I’ve gotten a real good kick out of reading Gaia’s Garden (over 1/2 way through). I especially love the descriptions of the monoculture lawns, extrapolated to the monoculture crops, and the total insanity of them all. And how they eventually foul the soil so badly, that it’s a neverending spiral downwards, requiring ever more fertilizer, pesticide, herbicide, water, and weeding/aeration. FWIW, my neighbor in the back just mowed his “weed and feed” lawn for the 4th time in the past couple months (mine could use it’s first cutting)…
    I found I had discovered a lot of the points made early on in the book about in-place renewal, but it gave me a great idea for something in my backyard (Hugelkultur a 30 year old deciduous mammoth, with large ‘edge’).
    One thing I found interesting, is about how you can boost the microbes/soil quality, by grabbing a few quarts of soil from the local forest. I’m lucky, I’ve got a nice stand of ‘fairly’ old growth (at least 100 years) only 2 miles away. I feel for the idjits in the midwest, that might get lucky finding a 30 year old hedgerow within 20 miles (GMO Corn/Soybean land)…

  430. asoka. April 4, 2012 at 9:14 pm #

    “Our crisis is a birth. We are one living system and we have come to the limit of one phase of natural growth on a finite planet… We must learn ethical evolution quickly… As we seek to facilitate a gentle birth, a graceful and nonviolent transition to the next stage of our evolution, we will discover a natural pattern, a design of our birth transition, and develop a plan to cooperate with this design.”
    – Barbara Marx Hubbard

  431. trippticket April 4, 2012 at 9:14 pm #

    The way I perceive the threat of atmospheric CO2 to work is that it acts as an insulator surrounding a great big engine we call the atmosphere. In this well-insulated engine energy is free to move and collect in pockets and cause extreme weather events. Air also exchanges heat a lot faster than water so, again according to the law of entropy (the second law of thermodynamics), the energy differential between air mass and ocean can be substantial, creating a capacity for the system to do work, which we perceive as weather. The more wildly the temperature differential swings between ocean and atmosphere, and the better that engine is insulated, via greenhouse gases, the more severe the weather events tend to be. “Global weirding,” not global warming. Everything is just more extreme until the trend reverses, gently or catastrophically, who knows. That’s my take anyway. So why add to the problem?

  432. progress2conserve April 4, 2012 at 9:16 pm #

    “And so the drug war rolls on. I read somewhere that there are now more black men in prison due to the drug war than existed in the entire country in 1850.” -K, the canine-
    Yeah, K, that sounds about right. Truly bizarre, that’s US drug policy. And US drug policy drives World drug policy – and World criminal syndicates.
    If I were a native born US black, two things would make me really paranoid and pissed off. One is National drug policy and enforcement decisions. The other is US immigration policy – which has displaced much of the rest of the native born black population that was not displaced by economic decline and drug policy.
    Damn.
    ———————–
    On a related note – you mentioned Status QuoBama, as regards unchanging marijuana policy and stepped up enforcement.
    I’ve been putting a new deck cap rail on the south side of my house today. (One of the rarely mentioned drawbacks of a passive solar house is the effect of all that damn Sunshine, on south facing exterior features.)
    But, for some reason, while I’ve been working, I’ve been picturing Michelle and Barak lighting up a big doobie, after the day’s political machinations were done. Maybe Michelle has Secret Service, CIA, and Vatican (Hi Mika) laborers slaving away in that White House garden of hers. And maybe they are growing prime hemp on the downlow.
    It’s just a thought, that kept me amused as I slaved away in the (unnaturally hot) Southern Spring sunshine.

  433. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 9:42 pm #

    “And his ‘charity’ is to Africa.”
    You know, that’s funny, and something I can actually agree with. I remember my mom telling me about how Oprah (she’s been an Oprah addict for 30 years) was giving all these donations to Africa. Mom was pissed that she wasn’t doing it for all the impoverished/starving/malnourished children right here at home in the USofA (13% US children living in poverty? 17%? More?!?). TAKE THAT OPRAH!!!

  434. progress2conserve April 4, 2012 at 9:56 pm #

    “Homeless people, people without capital, are the true heroes as they walk lightly on the Earth.”
    -bustinJ-
    Bustin, give most any homeless guy 100 grand, US – and he’ll turn into the most profligate consumer imaginable – burning petrol and destroying nature for however long (not very) his money lasts.
    It’s us firewood burners and slowly striving potential permaculturalists that you should be considering the heroes. And yeah, I get the irony, from your perspective.
    ================
    On an unrelated note – here’s an update on my food storage program.
    As I detailed about a month ago, now – the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, is what you should seek out if you want to store food for hard times. Those folks KNOW what they are doing. And the offer it to the public – CHEAP.
    Hard red winter wheat – sprouts like crazy. The sprouts taste very good, with a sweet tender edge, for the first few days. After that, the sprouts become as tasty as grass out of the mower bag – but not as tender.
    Pinto beans sprout well, but taste bitter and “beany.” That probably means they have lots of vitamins and are very good for you. For some reason, most of the things that are very good for you – always taste pretty bad to me.
    Black bean sprouts taste a little better than pinto bean sprouts – not a lot, but if TS impacted TF, to the point that I was eating my $1.00/day LDS food storage program for real – I’d be WISHING I had more stored black beans in cans.
    I’ve got all three of the above mentioned types of seeds now sprouting – for real, in real time – out in my garden. Everything looks pretty good right now. Barring a late frost, I’ll be expecting wheat, pinto beans, and black beans by mid-summer. I’ll try to remember to make a report in a couple of more months.

  435. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 10:00 pm #

    “The way I perceive the threat of atmospheric CO2 to work is that it acts as an insulator surrounding a great big engine we call the atmosphere.”
    Actually, CO2 is more-or-less “uniformly” distributed throughout the atmospheric medium. But that would prolly not make much of a difference WRT a *model*.
    “In this well-insulated engine energy is free to move and collect in pockets and cause extreme weather events.”
    I’m actually thinking it allows a hell of a lot more solar irradiance to be absorbed into the atmosphere (due to the positive absorption coefficient of CO2 over N2), thus resulting in your, “extreme weather events.”
    “Air also exchanges heat a lot faster than water”
    Not exactly true. Air-cooled computers run much hotter than water-cooled ones. But I think you might be ‘reefer’ing to the exchange of heat from vapor to liquid as being highly insulative – thus the solar irradiation/flux heat absorbed by the atmosphere is not readily attenuated by the oceans.
    “so, again according to the law of entropy (the second law of thermodynamics), the energy differential between air mass and ocean can be substantial, creating a capacity for the system to do work, which we perceive as weather. The more wildly the temperature differential swings between ocean and atmosphere, and the better that engine is insulated,”
    more likely, the more solar irradiance absorbed by the atmosphere with elevated CO2 content
    “via greenhouse gases, the more severe the weather events tend to be.”
    BINGO!
    “”Global weirding,” not global warming.”
    Nah, it’s global warming, and the proof is in the annual global temperature measurements. Pretty cut and dry – 2010 was the highest on record, 2005 was second, 2007 was third, 1998 was forth, and the next 6 were all in the past 15 years.
    “Everything is just more extreme until the trend reverses, gently or catastrophically, who knows. That’s my take anyway. So why add to the problem?”
    Another BINGO! Bah, we’re arguing with disinformant agents!!!!

  436. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 10:09 pm #

    “And maybe they are growing prime hemp on the downlow.”
    Either you are supremely enlightened, or extremely paranoid – and I’m not sure yet which to think!
    Oh, yeah, dug that CotLDS foodbank bit a week or so back (Ayup, I did read it)…

  437. trippticket April 4, 2012 at 10:13 pm #

    “. I feel for the idjits in the midwest, that might get lucky finding a 30 year old hedgerow within 20 miles (GMO Corn/Soybean land)…”
    Yeah, but there will still be pockets of deep dark soil here and there, and probably not a lot of people to fight for them! I feel for the loneliness of people in dying midwestern towns. I’ve only had one hit at my blog from the entire state of North Dakota; one hit. How many people live there? 16? 17? I’ve had that many people tune it from Jordan.
    Anyway, if you’re really good at being alone the midwest might end up being a lovely place to be! Although, on a side note, St. Louis has never been a very good place to be, regardless of energy access…

  438. asoka. April 4, 2012 at 10:19 pm #

    RALEIGH, N.C. — North Carolina will be home to the nation’s largest private fuel cell energy project, a nonpolluting, silent power plant that will generate electricity from hydrogen.
    Apple Inc. filed its plans with the N.C. Utilities Commission last week to build the 4.8-megawatt project in Maiden, about 40 miles northwest of Charlotte, N.C. That’s where Cupertino, Calif.-based Apple has built a data center to support the company’s iCloud online data storage system and its Siri voice-recognition software.
    The fuel cell project, the nation’s largest such project not built by an electric utility company, will be developed this year. It will be located on the same data complex that will host a planned 20-megawatt solar farm — the biggest ever proposed in this state.
    But it’s the fuel cell project that’s generating buzz, eclipsing anything ever dreamed of in California, the nation’s epicenter for fuel cell projects.
    “That’s a huge vote of confidence in fuel cells,” said James Warner, policy director of the Fuel Cell and Hydrogen Energy Association.
    Fuel cells generate electricity through an electro-chemical process and are compared to batteries that give out power as long as they have a source of hydrogen.
    They are exorbitantly expensive and in the past have been used only in experimental realms, such as NASA moon launches. The federal government offers a 30 percent tax credit, but no state incentive is available for fuel cells in North Carolina, making Apple’s project all the more intriguing. Apple is also developing miniature fuel cells to power laptop computers.

  439. Kyooshtik April 4, 2012 at 10:22 pm #

    Pretty cut and dry – 2010 was the highest on record
    ==============
    We’ve covered this ground before but aparently it didn’t sink in.
    http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/cutanddry.html

  440. Kyooshtik April 4, 2012 at 10:24 pm #

    ^apparently

  441. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 10:49 pm #

    “The pollutants that man is sending into the atmosphere … will be reduced as we go forward”
    Are you F*’n serious? You still lack ability to look at the trend since 1960, and can’t seem to grasp that it is *EXPONENTIAL* in nature, and not due to any known natural source, other than anthropogenic production via humans burning solid carbon?!?
    Let me help you:
    http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/
    Oops, I forgot, you were *retired* – heh!

  442. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 10:59 pm #

    “Douche-bag? Perhaps. But total? That’s going a bit too far.”
    Ahh, yes we have, you are completely “cut and dry.”
    ^even the ones that go
    I figured you’d have poasted that one first!
    “stop phreaking wurrying about grobar warmin”
    hahaha!!! “t-t-t-too much time on *YOUR* hands (cha-ching!)”

  443. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 11:11 pm #

    “Yeah, but there will still be pockets of deep dark soil here and there, and probably not a lot of people to fight for them!”
    You do realize those pockets will be nothing but saturated pesticide/herbicide/GMO tailings? That’s why I feel even MORE sorry for them, in the *BREADBASKET* of the world…
    That water is so renewable – just tell that to all your friends in the deep south/Tejas. Sh!, I bet they’d actually pay for hormone ridden water to spew over their hardpan…
    “I’ve only had one hit at my blog from the entire state of North Dakota; one hit.”
    Ah, yeah – they have their own central bank – don’t *they* Fed Reserve *TAKE NOTE*!!! Your printing press money, given freely *ONLY* to TBTF banksters at 0% interest, which they leverage 30:1 (my point?). Oh, man – how do I get into that CASINO (let alone the mega millions LOLZ!)…

  444. progress2conserve April 4, 2012 at 11:14 pm #

    On considering the term “flounder,” as a sexual compliment to certain nubile young human females –
    CF – my wife is out of town on one of our many, and sadly unfortunate, recent adventures related to aging family members. She was in no mood for me to take up the sexual nuance of the term “flounder,” on the phone – as a complement or otherwise. Rest assured that I will broach the topic with her ASAP, in person.
    And I find the idea of a female bed partner as a “flounder,” to be unique – and, at least somewhat, erotic. If you have ever hungrily pursued a flounder over the seafloor, as I have, you will have vivid memories of the undulating motion, the energetic gyrations – always parallel to the planar soft smoothness of the bed – – err, I mean the seabed.
    By way of extricating myself from this orgiastic dilemma – I present to CFN the orgasmic and ovulatory machinations – of the Panda Bear.
    http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/04/why-panda-sex-is-so-complex/?hpt=hp_c2

  445. progress2conserve April 4, 2012 at 11:26 pm #

    OK, two more things, and I’m done for the evening.
    First, the ACLU is intervening on behalf of a Marine – seeking to avoid a Dishonorable Discharge of this young man for making the following paraphrased statement, “Stein said he would not follow an illegal order to kill Americans or take away their weapons.”
    The Few, The Proud, the normal –
    ================
    In other business, let’s reference TooTsie, Mika, perhaps Asoka., and one or two others.
    Anyone who is annoying online, who expresses hate, who claims Tribal pride as he defends others “To the Death?,” – – –
    Such persons should be happy that they do not live in Arizona, in the coming near-big-brother-future. Maybe-
    http://venturebeat.com/2012/04/04/jail-the-trolls/

  446. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 11:33 pm #

    A lil’ ol’ titbit I thought might be nice to share, again, concerning bannings, *here*…
    Set up an IP proxy through your WEB browser (search for an IP proxy address, *using* it). That’s if you get the 401/402/403/404/etc error codes.
    However, if you can read the board, you’re not banned. You prolly simply tried poasting more than 1 “http://” link. If you want to poast more than one, do it in separate messages (1 per message), or delete the “http://” header.
    (Will this not poast because of those two headers?!…)

  447. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 11:44 pm #

    presto – digits!
    Not too hard to figure that one out by one’s self (hahaha, buck that analy-solipsis!!!)

  448. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 11:54 pm #

    “Perhaps it popped into my head because you’re always talking about covering the earth in skyscrapers.”
    As long as he avoids his multiple-times-in-a-row mega-walls-long poasts of I(heart)PHILOSOPHY x-poasting, he seems at least semi-human/coherent.
    Well, barely, anywaze/./

  449. IxNoMor April 4, 2012 at 11:56 pm #

    “In the drunken, drug-crazed twilight”
    WoW!
    Right off the bat, no holds bars ( Q). Don’t that just pretty much sum it up?!…

  450. Kyooshtik April 5, 2012 at 12:20 am #

    A lil’ ol’ titbit I thought might be nice to share
    ===============
    If you’re “chiefly British” stick with titbit, otherwise it’s tidbit.

  451. Bustin J April 5, 2012 at 12:24 am #

    po’c said “”Homeless people, people without capital, are the true heroes as they walk lightly on the Earth.”
    -bustinJ-
    Bustin, give most any homeless guy 100 grand, US – and he’ll turn into the most profligate consumer imaginable – burning petrol and destroying nature for however long (not very) his money lasts.”
    Money that does not last does not destroy nature. A fool and his money are soon parted. The problem with your rebuttal is that it is not properly understanding the principle… say, does your salary depend on it? Hmm?
    Calling Upton Sinclair….
    The bum is in touch with his own needs. He manages to survive, and can take pride in that considering how much other people “spend” to “survive”… many orders of magnitude less energy intense.
    In many cases, he takes what would otherwise be refuse and uses it. His idea of air conditioning is all-natural. His heat is borrowed from what would otherwise be wasted. And money? He’d blow it all on drugs, to shorten his own life.
    In the final analysis you have a judge a man by his choices. If he knows better, he fails by inaction. If he doesn’t, he is free, but his fate is out of his hands.
    Everyone is dependent on everyone else. Your personal fate is more or less determined, or at least circumscribed, at this point, by other people, if your own biological limits aren’t already established.
    That is, you are all going to have “unnatural deaths” because Global Warming is a kind of genocide- a murder.
    You’ve been living in your own crime scene.

  452. trippticket April 5, 2012 at 12:28 am #

    Nobody, almost nobody anywhere on the net, has enough respect for what healthy ecologies can do to restore fertility and busted mineral cycles, especially what mushrooms can do. It’s a fascinating field to be an ad hoc part of, and I am already convinced, after only 4 years, that just about anything can be repaired quickly with proper stewardship. It’s just hard to find that sort of thing in the U.S.
    So yes, pesticide ridden soil, temporarily. But as soil quality improves so does brain function, so you end up with a nice positive feedback loop fairly quickly.

  453. Bill Simpson April 5, 2012 at 12:39 am #

    One of those cholesterol lowering drugs nearly killed me. That was about 15 years ago. Luckily, I quit taking it after a couple of days of muscle pain. They manufacturer subsequently withdrew it from the market. And you need to watch how much of any of them you take. Too much of ANY of them can probably do more harm than good. Hell, too much acetaminophen will kill you.

  454. IxNoMor April 5, 2012 at 12:49 am #

    Wasn’t there some big houpla here this week, about how the two different parties (Dem/Rep) were sooo different/same?!?
    My personal cut – both are funded, bought, and payed for, by the same elite kleptoKKKrats and corporate robber barons/lobbyists – with at *LEAST* an 85% x-over of the same *BIDDERS*.
    Oh, yeah – stupid me – Dylan Ratigan had a good line on this *SEPARATION OF PEEPZ*. Apparently, 40% are registered independent voters, and ~30% are DEMOTARDS, and the other ~30% are REPUGNICANS.
    DO U C wut I did THERE? would it have *EVEN* mattered, if *90%* were independents, and ~5% DEM/~5% REP?!? Dylan is a repug, turned *independent*. I am soon to follow…

  455. IxNoMor April 5, 2012 at 12:59 am #

    “especially what mushrooms can do”
    On your advice? (perhaps) I have been gathering local mushrooms for the past 3 years and tossing them in my garden. And I’ve actually had success – you know when you see mushroom growing in a barren field, things are going to eventually come to *fruition*.
    I almost stepped on the 3rd emerald green tree frog I’ve seen on my property (1 every year, past 3). And I’m sure they’re here because of the Amanita Muscaria I gathered, from within a 6 block radius of my house. I know, frogs and shrooms – never woulda believed it tho…
    “So yes, pesticide ridden soil, temporarily”
    Really? That shit takes DECADES/YEARS to break down. And some lasts forever. They literally brought in the toxic chemical bath, and covered the topsoil…
    I mean, they literally bring in the TOXIC STEW right *NOW*, and bathe the land in a poisonous *SLUDGE*…

  456. Vlad Krandz April 5, 2012 at 1:08 am #

    Also everyone should watch this video to learn about race and humanity in America TODAY. I thought you were one of the NOW people Asoka…
    http://amren.com/news/2012/04/innocent-white-guy-rolled-in-the-hood/
    I find this video signifcant (there are so many) because I’ve had Black Women try to set me up to get punched out just as this man was.
    There have been at least a dozen known assaults on Whites and flash mobs in honor of Trayvon in the last week. Is this enough Asoka – or do you want full scale riots?

  457. anti soak April 5, 2012 at 1:10 am #

    Its in, I guess.
    Madonna etc dont adopt white US born children but
    African blacks.
    Ever hear of Rudy Guede? Amanda [hard] Knox?

  458. anti soak April 5, 2012 at 1:12 am #

    Ex Army Blog. ‘If Obama had a son’.

  459. IxNoMor April 5, 2012 at 1:20 am #

    Hahaha! As *they* say, “hook, line, …”
    Damn, gramps – *CONTRIBUTE* already!!! Give us some of that uld-skul *WISDOM* already

  460. anti soak April 5, 2012 at 1:21 am #

    ‘One of those cholesterol lowering drugs nearly killed me.’
    Of course it did. Cholesterol is not a disease.
    Much of modern medicine could be however.

  461. IxNoMor April 5, 2012 at 1:26 am #

    “Pretty cut and dry – 2010 was the highest on record
    ==============
    We’ve covered this ground before but aparently it didn’t sink in. ”
    As in, it’s pretty *GHAD* damned “cut and dry,” right *NOW*, gramps!!!
    Heh ;)~

  462. Vlad Krandz April 5, 2012 at 2:08 am #

    I though you might be interested. Porter Stansberry: “by printing massive amounts of employee stock options (most of which went to executives) and then re-pricing them when their stock prices fell.
    “Under the system, all of the company’s cash flows (and more) would have to go to share buybacks in order to prevent massive dilution. Thus, the employees were actually stealing the company’s earnings. Most people on Wall St knew this and were shorting the companies whose abuses were most egregious. But the scheme wasn’t revealed to the public (outside our newsletter) until 2006 when the Wall Street Journal finally wrote about the issue.
    “Steve Jobs, who was one of the most flagrant options abusers at both Apple and Pixar, got off the hook by naming Al Gore to the board of directors…and giving him millions in stock options grants. To this date, Apple Computer has not paid out a single penny in dividends to its rightful owners (its shareholders). Yet over the last decade, it has increased its outstanding share count via options issuance by 47%.”

  463. youmouyixia April 5, 2012 at 2:12 am #

    Economic voice of "the world Finance reported that the British Daily Mail, a web-based survey showed that 70% of the age of the Britons over the age of 40 feel the happiest 33 years of age to participate in this survey, there is no lack of models, players and industrialists and other celebrities. Incredible is that only 6% of people think that college life is the happiest, and that the happiest childhood, only 16 percent. In addition, 1/3 of the happiness began to decline when they have children.  Water Heater
     

     

  464. IxNoMor April 5, 2012 at 2:52 am #

    Is there any possibility, that *YOU* will all stop destroying every last living thing is *SIGHT*?!?
    I’m begging you…