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This Ripe Moment

     The narcolepsy of the long Yuletide draws to a close and the world reawakens to its self-spun web of mutually reinforcing fiascos. Just before the holiday, a sense of futility darkened the European banking landscape as cascading sovereign default looked more and more inevitable. It was halted by a bazooka-caliber currency swap Ponzi that allowed the European Central Bank to pretend it had a $700-billion bag of sugar-plums to hand out to more than 200 banks there. That gambit will only keep up the appearance of normality for a couple of months, until the late winter bond rollover provokes a new crisis stage.
     Likewise, in the USA, some pressure-cooked December employment statistics gave the false impression of a brightening jobs picture, but no major news network dared to glance behind the curtain at the short-term holiday hires, the uncounted long-term jobless, the ones who don’t show up at the government offices anymore, the ones who stopped getting checks, the legions of the hopeless. A nation that can’t call ‘bullshit’ on its own lies deserves all the suffering that might rain down upon it, and that’s exactly where we are heading as things economic morph into things political.
     How quaint the current Republican jousting tournament will seem in a few months when real violence rides in on the zephyrs of springtime. Each new primary is like the unloading of a Ringling Brothers clown car. There is an inverse relationship between the seriousness of these times and the laughable personalities vying for a place in history. Are they running for high office or auditioning for the role of Parson Weems in a new Lifetime Network TV mini-series? Are you charmed by their absurd casual clothing? Comforted by their know-nothing jabber about the “game-changer” of shale oil and their sincere doubts about the climate change “story?” Is it morally satisfying to know that one or another of these candidates won’t drink a beer? (They’d make good Ayatollahs.) In what sort of Creationist parthenogenetic incubator are such pietistic idiots hatched? What these sanctimonious pricks don’t realize they are doing is destroying the very legitimacy of the idea that we’re capable of governing ourselves per se.
     This is the long-term direction of life in North America, by the way – a breakup into small autonomous governing units. It’s just that the current cast of characters brings an aura of low comedy to the process. By the time they’re through with Washington, the credibility of Federalism will sound like a knock-knock joke.
     As for the other side, the “folks” now occupying the White House and its folkster-in-chief, Mr. Obama – the time has come to abandon them. Their failure is complete with the new national security act that allows for suspension of due process of law. The cheek of Mr. Obama in offering a “signing statement” to the effect that his administration would not enforce the law! – as he signed it! For one thing, Obama tacitly invited his own impeachment by declaring he had no intention of enforcing federal law, since enforcement is the chief duty of his office. If John Boehner were not himself such a fraud, he would have started a motion for impeachment before sundown that day.
     Occupy Wall Street will seem like a mere harvest dance when we look back from the uproars later in 2012. Both organized parties have managed to banish the rule of law in America. Both parties need to be driven into the wilderness of history and the rule of law has to be rescued from the oblivion they sent it to. What group of clear-thinking adults can get behind that simple project? What voices will resolve out of the phenomenal noise of gadget America, with its deafening tweets, incessant advertising, instant messaging, idiotic robo-calling, and ever-present flat-screen assault on the senses? 
     I discern the distant sound of rebellion, a spirit that won’t be appeased by bytes of Disney-babble from the pandering snouts of Romney, Santorum, Gingrich, Paul or Obama. They are interested only in keeping a set of suicidal rackets going. All the yammer about “freedom” and “liberty” is hollow when the rule of law is AWOL. This ripe time is the natural moment for a true opposition to rise. A few months from now neither major party will have a credible candidate or a plausible platform of ideas. This will be painfully obvious. What angels and demons will rush into that awful vacuum? 
_________________________
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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency, and Too Much Magic: Wishful Thinking, Technology and the Fate of the Nation. His novels include World Made By Hand, The Witch of Hebron, Maggie Darling — A Modern Romance, The Halloween Ball, an Embarrassment of Riches, and many others. He has published three novellas with Water Street Press: Manhattan Gothic, A Christmas Orphan, and The Flight of Mehetabel.

1,111 Responses to “This Ripe Moment” Subscribe

  1. WestCoast January 9, 2012 at 9:41 am #

    First. And it doesn’t mean a thing. Let’s move on to
    discuss real issues.

  2. Leibowitz Society January 9, 2012 at 9:42 am #

    The world is getting less and less predictable. We need to take time now, while we still can, to study and prepare for what is coming.
    Visit The Leibowitz Society at http://leibowitzsociety.blogspot.com/2012/01/fracked-up.html for discussion about preparation for the coming Dark Age.

  3. mila59 January 9, 2012 at 9:44 am #

    JHK, a good read this morning. I truly hope there WILL be an uproar come springtime…I truly hope there is OUTRAGE somewhere out there. But the big flat screen, the high def, the i-crap, the cloud — those seem to be the only things people in this country care about. So we’ll see.
    Mila

  4. Chaz Valenza January 9, 2012 at 9:49 am #

    Adding to the evidence: It’s offical, the middle class is dead. Recently released US Bureau of Labor Statistic and Federal Reserve data show the “average American family” can’t afford the average single family house… depended on their employer for health care insurance or went without… were in debt with no way out… didn’t pursuing further education… saved nothing… and slashed their food budget to the bone.
    “It’s Official: Gov Stats Shows the Middle Class is Dead” on opednews.com
    See my full analysis Here: http://www.opednews.com/articles/The-Middle-Class-Vanishes-by-Chaz-Valenza-120101-954.html

  5. coyoteyogi January 9, 2012 at 9:50 am #

    The rule of law has become a “signing statement”. Where is the outrage? the righteous indignation and shouting? Habeus Corpus left without a fight or even a nightly commentary. Pathetic. And pepper spray is a vegetable. How about those Broncos, eh? Awesome game dudes…..

  6. asoka. January 9, 2012 at 9:50 am #

    JHK said: “What group of clear-thinking adults can get behind that simple project?”
    ================
    The Green Party is the answer.
    Vote Jill Stein 2012
    http://www.jillstein.org

  7. WestCoast January 9, 2012 at 9:51 am #

    Of all the Clown Car baggage, Ron Paul is the most useful to the citizens revolt to and including OWS.
    Why? Because the more success he has the more
    lie it gives to the other Rethugs through simply upsetting their propaganda fest. At the same time it points out the hypocrisy of the Democratic pro war machine. Interesting discussion of this at Naked Capitalism.
    He of course wants to keep U.S. tax dollars at home with might insult certain tribalistic tendencies.

  8. DeeJones January 9, 2012 at 9:53 am #

    “All the yammer about “freedom” and “liberty” is hollow when the rule of law is AWOL. ”
    Notice how “and Justice for all” is not even mentioned.
    I wish the best for the OWS movement, but I fear that the PTB will come done hard this year to crush any and all dissent. Of course you won’t see that on the major media ‘newz’, just the Tea Partiers will be focused on.
    Or for a bigger distraction, howz about a little war with Iran?
    The USA has become a Fascist police state. And unless the American people decide to take some action, democracy is a dead concept there.
    Its all about and for the Corporations, with the military as the enforcer, either here or abroad.
    Good luck, :]

  9. Neon Vincent January 9, 2012 at 9:53 am #

    “Both parties need to be driven into the wilderness of history and the rule of law has to be rescued from the oblivion they sent it to. What group of clear-thinking adults can get behind that simple project?”
    Americans Elect is trying to do just the first, although I don’t think that’s going to happen. Throughout the history of the United States, the country has had the Democratic Party and its opposition, first the Federalists, then the Whigs, and now the Republicans. The only time one of those parties has been banished has been when it fell apart on its own. It was promptly replaced by a new opposition party. The same is true in other countries that have maintained democracy. Labor replaced the Liberals in the UK without the Tories disbanding, and the Canadians managed to almost completely dismantle the Progressive Conservatives overnight; the current Conservative Party has more to do with the Canadian Reform Party than the Tories of old. So one of the parties might disintegrate, then the other, but I highly doubt both will do it simultaneously. The only way I see that happening will be if there is a military coup that eliminates party politics altogether, such as has happened in Pakistan. Do you really wish for such a thing?
    As for the second, a number of groups are trying, including Coffee Party USA. I really should book you on one of our Blog Talk Radio programs. Do I need to talk to Miriam F. for a phone interview?
    Over at Crazy Eddie’s Motie News, I didn’t talk about either Americans Elect or the Coffee Party, although I promise I will do both this year. Instead, I examined the corn pone fascists in their native environment, the Iowa Caucuses, repeating what I said last week about the campaign being a circus and the candidates being a bunch of clowns. I also mocked the Mayan Apocalypse, quoting last week’s post by JHK, remarked on how Michigan’s Governor managed to get himself sued twice in one week for assaults on democracy and equality in bills he signed, found some good news for both rapid transit and automobiles in metro Detroit, and then howled at last night’s full moon. Coming up this week will be more on the effect automobiles have on the economy, both good and bad, which will demonstrate how difficult it will be to wean ourselves off of happy motoring. In particular, I will be covering the North American International Auto Show, which will display both the best and worst of cars, including efforts to make cars more sustainable–never mind that divorcing cars from the internal combustion engine will only alleviate one or two of the issues with automobiles on the environment and society. So, Happy Motoring–for now–from Detroit!
    http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/

  10. endofworld January 9, 2012 at 9:57 am #

    What!!!no mention of impending ww3 starting with Iran!! ..got the popcorn ready;cold beer…

  11. 8man January 9, 2012 at 10:01 am #

    From:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177837
    “None the less, the universes are NOT parallel if they intersect.”
    Exactly, and in fact a real parallel universe is one that has no possible relationship with us and ours, no possible logical connection with ours, not even the constraints of existence, non-contradiction and the identity principle, a universe that is totally disjoint from ours, totally outside of any possible decoding we can perform, totally not related in any possible logical or philosophical or metaphysical way. That is why real parallel universes exist only when the Observer becomes something different from our Man Brain, a new design of the Observer (a completely new design of Mind, Brain, Neural Circuits, Internal Logical Connections, Memory Organization, how it is all connected to Emotions and Sentiments, Pain and Pleasure events, circuits and systems, etc.) will create a new Experience Space for that new observer and hence will create a new Universe with completely new laws of Physics as the observer is simply the sequence of events the Observer Experiences by talking to itself, by interacting with matter, but as such is simply interacting with itself, inventing itself, creating its own universe moment by moment, it is simply an Information Relationship. It goes without saying that a parallel universe is totally illogical, contradictory, totally absurd, very far out, and very cool exactly because it is so different from what we are used to.
    I like these new parallel universes, especially if they don’t exist (since they are beyond true and false and existence and non existence). But especially because even if what all I said is false, it is true, I can say and do all, I always win, I love lies and deceptions, I love complete insanity…
    What the many worlds theory implies in Quantum Physics is simply many universes that are almost identical and similar to ours, with most logical and non-contradiction and Identity Principles always operating.
    But you would have to check that out “experimentally”…
    “How does two or more possible results result in two universes? ”
    Well you can invent anything you want, you can design a theory or logic or sequence of symbols that shows how that is possible, it doesn’t have to be “not illogical” or “not contradicting”, it doesn’t have to even be right, it just has to be fun, like a little game it can be anything you want, you are free to invent all and make up all kinds of stuff and all kinds of mistakes you want, lie to yourself, force any theory you want, break all the rules, you are free…

  12. jwhands4u January 9, 2012 at 10:02 am #

    Somedays, it feels as if you’ve just flushed the toilet and you notice that “missing ring” following the waste down the crapper… too late!

  13. 8man January 9, 2012 at 10:06 am #

    From:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=177835
    [quote="Kriswest"]If you were a young person in Tunisia would you just sit and pray? Or would you leave the area to find something better?
    You rant against those that prefer to change their existance rather than become slaves to the system. Do you not comprehend that once the Government gives you handouts you are their property? You live where they dictate , you do what they dictate, If they say jump for your money , you need to do it or you might actually be cut off. They want you, your kids , your family accepting handouts. Lazy fat dependents rarely rebel. A country on welfare is ideal to leaders. They have a freedom to be the masters. Indepence breeds restlessness, innovation , thoughts, freedoms. You sound like a salesman for the government. How much are they giving you to recruit?[/quote]
    No different from what private corporate bosses do and want, it is all the same, it doesn’t matter what the hierarchy is made up of, there is never any freedom essentially…
    But go on, be your own boss, how many people do you think can really end up being their own boss ? Anyways I have said this before many times, there is no difference between public or private enterprises, government or private corporations, power relationships are always power relationships, status relationships are always present no matter what, read all of my old posts, study them very carefully, you will learn…

  14. Solar Guy January 9, 2012 at 10:08 am #

    http://usdebt.kleptocracy.us/
    15 TRILLION.
    Off to show the Congressman some Solar Panels charging an electric car this afternoon… we’ll see how that goes…
    By the way, it actually works.
    Cheers Clusterfuckers
    PUSH ON. DO GOOD. KEEP SMILING.

  15. Elrond Hubbard January 9, 2012 at 10:09 am #

    Jim, nice exchange with Chomsky last week. His intellectual arteries are pretty hardened these days, good to see someone give him a run for his money.
    My country continues its steady downward progress into petro-state thugocracy. The morning headlines are full of the Harper government’s reaction to the effective tactics of environmentalists to delay the building of pipelines to convey tar sands sludge to markets: they are planning to change the rules of the review process to limit and cut out effective opposition. Now, we can’t have people actually *debating* the merits of a project that is flensing the skin off our planet, transforming northern Alberta into a toxic moonscape, endangering the lands any pipeline will pass through, and dumping gigatons more climate-altering greenhouse carbon into our atmosphere, now can we? There are billions of dollars and several entire additional years of happy motoring at stake!
    Never mind the nay-sayers: a genuine political alternative is what we desperately need. That’s why I vote Green.
    http://greenparty.ca/

  16. lbendet January 9, 2012 at 10:15 am #

    Thanks as always JHK
    After 2008, the choose has been to allow for a global collapse, restructuring banks and the move back to sovereignty across the board, and regulations which means rule of law. If Reagan were in office, that’s what he would do and he would raise taxes!!
    But that was not to happen.
    Instead we got more intrenched in the failure, giving 23 trillion and more to international zombie banks and the dissolution of some countries for the benefit a few kleptocrats. The replacement of elected governing officials to appointed banking technocrats in Italy for instance. (who worked for Goldman Sachs) ‘“All for the sake of the crumbling global growth paradigm. You couldn’t make this stuff up.
    The dialog in this country is so far from reality, that the only thing these people can promise is‘ to take us back kicking and scream“ing to a time before the 20th century, in social matters and economic matters. To a panacea of low wages and no unions, regressive economics and revisionist history and of course, don’t forget revanchism–blaming everyone but the guilty.–Let’s blame the victims–they’re so much easier to take the hit.
    Yes, Obama is doing what he’s been told to do and that is all, folks. That bill he just signed with signing statements and all will set us up for an unhappy future. I call it Stasi with all its security complex gyrations and xray machines at all travel hubs meets reality TV. Maybe they will show us the camera we can talk to to tell them what we really think.
    Billionaires are bankrolling the campaign coffers of the absurd and more absurd, but it is inevitable that the confused Romney will take the nomination. Is he a moderate or is he a right-winger–only his shrink knows for sure—and he’s not saying’
    Like a tide taking us further out to sea and further from any recognizable landscape we are entering into a new phase of smoke and mirrors. It’s an illusion built upon sand.

  17. bubbleheadMarc January 9, 2012 at 10:16 am #

    Regarding the question of the viability of “democracy” it needs to be remembered that democracy, so called, was always predicted to fail by aristocratic observers during the 18th and early 19th centuries, when they described it as pandering to the mob. This also begs the question of whether or not there actually has been a real democracy, either here or really anywhere for that matter. And it goes without saying that our current arrangements are not even remotely democratic, but rather blatantly plutocratic.
    And then finally, in terms of whether or not any sort of leadership exists to come up with an alternative approach to our problems there is the phenomenon of near all pervasive nostalgia, living in the past, and just plain obliviousness to overcome making it a foregone conclusion that the present system must actually finally collapse beyond a shadow of a doubt before a new consensus can emerge in which everything can be put on the table for reconsideration. The bottom line is that capitalism doesn’t really work, but of course no one wants any sort of “everybody moves to public housing” communism. When I say that capitalism doesn’t work I’m not saying that it doesn’t create new wealth or produce marvelous products and services. What I’m saying is that it functions as a cancer eating the planet so that in the long run nothing will matter because our life support system will be defunct and we’ll all be dead. Then the only question will be the nihilistic one of determining whether once we no longer exist it’ll be the same as if we’d never existed in the first place at all. Actually there will be evidence we did once exist because we’ll have left behind a ruined planet populated chiefly by insects and perhaps small mammals and reptiles.

  18. TheRockyMountainPilgrim January 9, 2012 at 10:16 am #

    Great read again, Jim!
    You wrote: “…but no major news network dared to glance behind the curtain…”
    It’s an appropriate phrase, given the correlation between what is going on these days and the illustrations of life in L. Frank Baum’s book, ‘The Wonderful Wizard of Oz.’ The government and the mainstream media would definitely have us NOT paying attention to the man behind the curtain.
    Watch the 2010 documentary “The Secret of Oz” for a great explanation of that “children’s” book, and its relevance to what is going on in our financial world today. Hint: We can make our government work for us once again.
    And in response to Asoka’s reply of “The Green Party is the Answer,” I say that is rubbish, because the Green Party just does not get the nature of the problem: big banking has taken over governing and established a debt-money system that is slowly enslaving us once again, bringing about a neo-feudalistic state thru debt, inflation, deflation, and outright fraud. We need a new party to answer this dilemma. We need a party of All the People, not just the left wing of the left wing or the right wing of the right wing.
    It’s time for a return to our roots as a nation. I suggest you consider The Foundation Party of America. We are the true party of Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Jackson, and Lincoln. We oppose debt-money creation (the privately held ‘Fed’) and will dismantle the web of debt the big banks have foisted upon us. We will return America to a true state of independence. We will turn back the tide of Globalization, return to Localization, and diminish the use of so much of the limited crude oil supplies, until a better, more sustainable system can be implemented.
    Keep your eyes open for The Foundation Party of America folks. We represent the 100% and we are on your side.
    Coming soon to a ballot box near you.
    Best,
    Torin
    The Rocky Mountain Pilgrim

  19. upstatebob January 9, 2012 at 10:22 am #

    Now in 20-12, the year of increasingly limited foresight, a very few are still able to see as far as 20-20. the fabled year of hindsight.
    Here they see the new medium of exchange, authorized and now even issued by the government: -small bags of Cheeze Doodles.
    Although a little cumbersome to carry, they have a good shelf life, are immune to further inflation, negate the need for food stamps,
    and eliminate the possibility of bank runs.
    The government has a new reality/court show to process those
    caught attempting to use gold to buy anything. The inevitable
    sentence is a high tech guillotine with flashing lights and a laser
    beam that separates the criminal’s head in a bloodless instant.
    After it falls to the basket, the cameras zoom to face to give millions of eager viewers a view of the facial expression du jour.
    What of the headless body? You guessed it – SOYLENT GREEN

  20. lsjogren January 9, 2012 at 10:28 am #

    Gotta take issue with one detail- the nondrinkers among the Republican candidates (i.e. the Mormons) happen to be the most ideologically moderate among the candidates so although “they’d make good Ayatollahs” is a cute line it actually doesn’t fit.

  21. tpverde January 9, 2012 at 10:36 am #

    The notion of the US, or other countries for that matter, devolving into smaller regions seems ever more plausible now than when JHK first wrote about it.
    Interested observers might want to take into account a point recently raised on The Automatic Earth about the ‘core’ areas moving to suck ever more life support out of the ‘peripheries’–and even taxing activities like gardening and rainwater harvesting–as people try to throw off the fetters of corporate/government bondage to the terminally ill global financial system.
    Aside from jumping ship, as I have done, the strategies of local food systems, reinventing local economies and constantly explaining to your neighbors exactly why you are doing all of this instead of watching TV, seems to be a strategy that can help prepare a bit and maintain sanity at the same time.
    Even for those of us who don’t believe in prophesies, looks like 2012 is going to be an interesting year.
    All the best from Costa Rica !!!!
    puebloverde.org

  22. empirestatebuilding January 9, 2012 at 10:37 am #

    I watched the debate on MTP yesterday. It was sad, really sad. Romney is clearly going to be the nominee. There was no one else on stage who looked like they even wanted the nod. Gingrich is just there to up his consulting fees. Huntsman see,s like a decent fella. But he has no traction.
    To know in January who will get the nomination in August seems like a new wrinkle. 4 years ago Hillary and Barak were neck and neck until June.
    All these guys on both sides of the aisle work work for the same company. There is no change. There will be no change. From them at least. They won’t do anything until the dam bursts. And then they’ll stand there with umbrellas. The summer of 2012 could be interesting.
    Aimlow Joe was here
    http://www.aimlow.com

  23. pedal pusher January 9, 2012 at 10:38 am #

    The national security act is this decade’s McCarthy moment. Along with the Supreme Court’s decision to grant citizenship status to corporations, it marks, I believe, a point-of-no-return in the disintegration of American democracy (a tenuous proposition from the outset). The fact that these two bald betrayals of the nation’s governing premise went largely unchallenged while Justin Bibber’s tattoo made national news, proves the point made by Jesus some two thousand years ago, “the people swallow a camel but choke on a gnat”.

  24. ozone January 9, 2012 at 10:42 am #

    Senor James sez:
    “I discern the distant sound of rebellion, a spirit that won’t be appeased by bytes of Disney-babble from the pandering snouts of Romney, Santorum, Gingrich, Paul or Obama. They are interested only in keeping a set of suicidal rackets going. All the yammer about “freedom” and “liberty” is hollow when the rule of law is AWOL. This ripe time is the natural moment for a true opposition to rise.”
    James H.,
    I’m hearing the muted toots of bugles calling for gatherings of The Pissed-Off.
    However, they’re rallying around the banner of iron-fisted fascism and status-quo, previous-investment fairy stories. This is where the deluded meet their monstrous new masters (and clasp them fervently to their bosoms), hoping for former ease and comforts, not to mention salvation.
    I see massive conflict for the soul of Man and Law. It certainly need not be, but the propaganda has worked its’ magic, convincing “folks” that leaders with a burning fever of monomania are their only recourse to security, rather than an up-from-the-earth practical, plodding approach. (The difference between short-term and long-term thinking becomes glaringly obvious when comparing the “two”. ….And, yes, there’s ALWAYS more than a couple ways to approach any result of predicaments; the only real duality is “to do it” or “not to do it”.)
    BTW, the only thing I’m really certain of through my life experience? THERE IS NO SECURITY. (Despite “all-encompassing compassionate hearts” and cobbled-together religiousity that takes cruel advantage of our fearful reaction to Natures awesome whims.)
    Soon we’ll hear from the distractionary megaphones of those very fascists, delusionistas, and “warm accepting hearts”.
    I call “bullshit” on their steering conversations into the wilderness of irrelevancy, error, and outright insanity. The storm is already here; these are just the first mild gusts at the edge of the front that is The Long Emergency. Git yer mind right, and place yer bets, “folks”, place yer bets…

  25. lsjogren January 9, 2012 at 10:48 am #

    Torin:
    Foundation Party sounds like a promising endeavor. I certainly agree with your criticism of the Greens.
    In my view the Greens are just party dedicated to the establishment of a Leftist Police State.
    I think our system is too authoritarian already.

  26. Steve M. January 9, 2012 at 10:55 am #

    Occupy Wall Street already seems quaint. The media seemingly stopped talking about them when the ball dropped in Times Square. Oooh, look, unemployment is down, Obama is up in the polls, it’s 2012, and Lady Gaga is holding court with Dick Clark! It’s party time! HAPPY NEW YEAR!! ;-\ :-O

  27. TheRockyMountainPilgrim January 9, 2012 at 10:56 am #

    On the point of the Republican nomination process, it clearly seems to be a race between Romney and Ron Paul. (Santorum seems more like a blip on the radar, just like all the candidates-of-the-day were before him.)
    To be honest, both Romney and Paul scare me. Romney scares me for the same reason that any establishment candidate scares me: he supports the status quo (lower taxes, cut spending, foreign wars, etc.). But Paul also scares me in this sense: He advocates a return to the Gold Standard. There are a lot of people who think that returning to a gold standard is a good idea, given the current economic crises around the globe. However, I caution you that such a move will actually make the situation worse. The reason for this is that moving to a commodity-backed currency makes it even EASIER for the Powers That Be (the big banks and their central-bank front operations) to corner the market and establish their control, leading us into greater and greater levels of serfdom.
    Just look at the event known as “The Long Depression” of the late 19h Century. The depression was a direct result of the abandonment of the Greenback and silver coinage, which were more plentiful to the People. As well, look at the recession of 1919-20 and the Great Depression. Both occurred while the US was under a gold standard. And history shows that it was when the British Parliament insisted that all taxes be paid in gold and silver from the Colonies that such a depression set in to actually cause the American Revolution.
    And if you need more contemporary examples: who are the biggest purchasers of gold these days? Central banks. And who is the single largest holder of gold today? The International Monetary Fund (IMF).
    Don’t be fooled into supporting Ron Paul, folks. While his rhetoric might sound like a breath of fresh air to people fed up with the establishment, his solution of a gold standard will play right into the hands of the Money Changers and make your life even worse than it has become.
    It’s time we took the power of money creation and put it back in the hands of the government as a service to the People, not as a profit mechanism for a few plutocrats!
    Look for The Foundation Party of America. We are new, but we have the right message for the right time.
    Best,
    Torin
    The Rocky Mountain Pilgrim

  28. brewing January 9, 2012 at 10:59 am #

    With the coming collapse of the world economy, where is a good safe haven if there is one? I don’t think the US will be safe by summertime…

  29. ozone January 9, 2012 at 10:59 am #

    “And then finally, in terms of whether or not any sort of leadership exists to come up with an alternative approach to our problems there is the phenomenon of near all pervasive nostalgia, living in the past, and just plain obliviousness to overcome making it a foregone conclusion that the present system must actually finally collapse beyond a shadow of a doubt before a new consensus can emerge in which everything can be put on the table for reconsideration.” -BHM
    Unfortunately, that’s how I see things “shaking out” as well.
    Thoughtful addendum to JHK’s commentary. Thanks.

  30. Elrond Hubbard January 9, 2012 at 11:04 am #

    In my view the Greens are just party dedicated to the establishment of a Leftist Police State.
    Care to justify that claim?

  31. welles January 9, 2012 at 11:06 am #

    why do you folks even put up with the untied states? people left england for the freer US at the time, well get up and leave again…
    peace peaceniks

  32. 3rd Generation January 9, 2012 at 11:06 am #

    JHK
    IF we end up as cell mates in the FEMA gulag, bring earplugs. I unfortunately sleep-snore loudly, which will probably be deemed a waterboarding offense by our corrupt, cheating, lying disengenuous shill executive branch and non-existent judicial branch.
    The upside is I have plenty of in-date cheese doodles and I share.
    tick, tick, tick, tick….

  33. noel bodie January 9, 2012 at 11:09 am #

    Today’s post revisits Jim’s question/observation of what will happen when it is discovered that our political institutions are INCAPABLE of dealing with current reality and that really is a very disturbing conclusion.

  34. ozone January 9, 2012 at 11:13 am #

    D. Orlov from yesterday:
    “Electioneering in the US is steadily expanding to fill more and more time and space even as it provides worse and worse results with each election cycle. The Congress is made of some of the least popular people on earth, who are manifestly incapable of achieving anything useful. They do seem quite ready and willing to pass laws that erode human rights and enhance the powers of the police state, but this is because they are paranoid. Perhaps their one point of consensus is that sooner or later their constituents will want to open fire on them.”
    Yes, I believe that Diebold will provide a fair result, don’t you? And the oligarchs will hand-select the very finest of “public servants”. C’mon, where’s your faith? ;o)
    http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2012/01/dance-of-marionettes.html

  35. DreamCycle January 9, 2012 at 11:15 am #

    The only hope is Occupy and here in Chicago we look forward to the coming G8 protest. Also, thanks for saying “normality” instead of the idiotic “normalcy.”

  36. Mack184 January 9, 2012 at 11:17 am #

    JHK..I have been reading your blog for some time now and while I believe with you that the US & (the world in genral)is on it’s way to the worst comeuppence in history, I believe it all for another reason.
    While it is not fashionable to admit this here, I am a Christian, and I truly believe that we are on the course of the last days as Biblically defined in Daniel & Revelation. The world is hurtling & lurching towards a disaster. A well-seen disaster that few are willing to acknowledge.
    Serious Christian scholars of Biblical prophecy find absolutely no reference to the USA in end times prohecy. There are however references to Europe, Russia, China and of course the Middle East. So what happens to the USA? Where did it go?
    Very possibly we find that answer in the complete economic crash of the USA. Very little would cause more instability in this world than a full blowout of the US economy. It would tip over all the rest of the dominos.
    I believe that we have run out of time and the return of Jesus Christ is very close as the world & man play out the last hand.
    I know many here will hoot & laugh at my comments. However it costs me nothing to believe this, and I, along with thousands of others believe it deeply.
    Peace to all….

  37. anti soak January 9, 2012 at 11:19 am #

    ABSALOM,
    Its ‘not for nothing’ Ehero called you
    ‘A COOKIE CUTTER DOOFUS WITH —- FOR A BRAIN’
    Here are some of the facts and figures he refused to cite.
    Remember what the Media called the Race Riots of the 1960s-70s?
    They weren’t ‘Race Riots’, They were Black Riots!
    [FROM ‘SBPDL’ / city-data dot com]:
    General population versus prison population of Blacks for leading states.
    Article cites Iowa as having only a 2% overall Black population while maintaining a 24% Black prison population.
    Delaware (12.6X) and Minnesota (12.3X) are the only ones to beat Iowa (12.0X) for over-representation of Blacks in prison versus the general population.
    But, think of it, Whites are being hunted by animals.
    30,000 black rapes of whites annually.
    180,000 whites killed by blacks since 1965. [1 in 6? Murders black on white]
    Over 50 whites killed weekly by blacks.
    Compare that to the 3,500 hangings of blacks since the civil war ..
    Let’s look at some stats in Atlanta. According to city-data dot com Atlanta’s population is 519145. On Average, there are about 149 murders per year in Atlanta (4.5 times the national average).
    Atlanta murders, year-by-year, from city-data dot com:
    1999 – 143. 2000 – 134. 2001 – 144. 2002 – 152. 2003 – 149. 2004 – 112. 2005 – 90. 2006 – 110. 2007 – 129. 2008 – 105. 2009 – 80.
    Let’s check out Portland, OR with a population of 550396. Portland, with a population over 31,251 more than Atlanta, has about 27 murders on average.
    Portland murders, year-by-year, from city-data dot com.
    GUESS WHAT! MOST OF THEM WERE COMMITTED BY… WAIT FOR IT… BLACKS!
    1999 – 35. 2000 – 19. 2001- 21. 2002 – 20. 2003 – 27. 2004 – 29. 2005 – 20. 2006 – 20. 2007 – 22. 2008 – 26. 2009 – 19.
    Portland and Atlanta demographics compared:
    Portland = 76% white, only about 7% black
    Atlanta = 31% white, 61% black.
    Now let’s compare Seattle with Washington DC!
    Compare and contrast! All data from city-data dot com.
    Washington DC Population in July 2009: 599,657.
    Murders in DC in 2009: 143
    King County WA, Population in July 2009: 617,334.
    Murders in Seattle in 2009: 22
    Demographics:
    Washington DC: 52.7% black
    Seattle WA: 6.8% black
    The final nail in the coffin of Black-run Detroit is being put in place. Black-run Washington D.C., where financial mismanagement, corruption, high crime rates, horrible schools, and economic stagnation was ultimately saved by white people usurping freedom from elected [duplicitous] Black officials in the mid-90s.
    The Wall Street Journal put together a list of the best-run and worst-run of 2011 and, well, it broke down along racial lines again. Majority Black cities, where high rates of crime are endemic, ensure that you are on the worst list. Remember, your elected officials come from this class too.
    So, with the impending collapse of the city once dubbed “the arsenal of Democracy” we can safely surmise that freedom truly failed once Detroit’s future was in the hands of Black people.
    There’s your answer Rep. Conyers. Then again, you should have known Black people were incapable of running a city when the wheels of your government leased Cadillac Escalde were stolen in front of your home:
    First, the son of U.S. Rep. John Conyers (D-Detroit) was forbidden from using dad’s taxpayer-leased Cadillac Escalade. Now, it looks like nobody else will be driving the fancy SUV real soon either, not after a thief stole the wheels off of the vehicle.
    According to news reports, a Conyers staffer confirmed that the wheels had been stolen yesterday while the vehicle was parked in front of the congressman’s home on the west side of Detroit.
    Detroit’s collapse is 100 percent racial, for the same reason that Pittsburgh’s ascension is 100 percent racial.
    ten worst run cities,
    none had a non-Hispanic White majority.
    America’s worst run cities
    #1 Miami FL
    11.9% Non-Hispanic White
    19.2% black
    70.0% Hispanic or Latino
    #2 Detroit MI
    7.8% Non-Hispanic White
    82.7% black
    6.8% Hispanic or Latino
    #3 Newark NJ
    26.3% White
    52.4% black
    33.8% Hispanic or Latino
    #4 San Bernardino CA
    45.6% White
    15.0% black
    4.0% Asian
    60.0% Hispanic or Latino
    #5 Cleveland OH
    33.4% non-Hispanic White
    53.3% black
    10.0% Hispanic or Latino
    #6 Stockton CA
    37.0% White
    12.2% black
    21.5% Asian
    40.3% Hispanic or Latino
    #7 St. Louis MO
    43.9% White
    49.2% black
    #8 Fresno CA
    49.6% White
    8.3% black
    46.9% Hispanic
    12.6% Indian
    #9 North Las Vegas, NV
    47.4% White
    19.9% black
    38.8% Hispanic or Latino
    #10 Hialeah, FL
    4.2% non-Hispanic White
    94.7% Hispanic or Latino
    (Wikipedia and US Census Bureau were sources)
    Detroit’s failure is inexplicably a source of confusion
    Jan 7th, 2012 by Unamused
    The city of Detroit, Michigan is 83% black. This simple fact has many interesting consequences. For example, in May 2011, CBS Detroit reported that nearly half the city cannot read. (Curiously, the photo accompanying the article depicts a white person. No explanation is given.)
    According to a new report, 47 percent of Detroiters are “functionally illiterate.” The alarming new statistics were released by the Detroit Regional Workforce Fund on Wednesday.
    WWJ Newsradio 950 spoke with the Fund’s Director, Karen Tyler-Ruiz, who explained exactly what this means.
    “Not able to fill out basic forms, for getting a job — those types of basic everyday (things). Reading a prescription; what’s on the bottle, how many you should take… just your basic everyday tasks,” she said
    Lurker :
    Rep. John Conyers (D) apparently intoned:
    “How come all of the jurisdictions put under emergency management are majority African American? Has anybody noticed that?”
    Hahahahaha. No dinky, you’re the first. Coz every time I watch a Hollywood movie I see African-Americans in there, and not just African-Americans, but African-Americans who are scientists, heroes, Nobel laureates, doctors, and medical researchers, and they’re all very, very wise, and they’re teaching values to some whiteyboy Keanu Reeves, so I thought that’s how it is in real life; after all, all we see in movies is true, right? Why would they lie to us. Every one of them is “based on real story” after all.
    And remember the Corporate Media BLAMES WHITES WHEN THEY FLEE THE CARNAGE, CALLING IT ‘WHITE FLIGHT’
    See: WORLDSTAR HIPHOP.COM
    Thanks to CocCC.org for:
    Meanwhile in the Whitehouse:
    The media is censoring what goes on at the White House to protect the Obama family from a massive backlash.
    Millions of dollars are being spent on the extravagant parties and constant vacations held by the Obama family.
    Back in 2009, Obama threw an “Alice in Wonderland” party at the White House. Hollywood stars Tim Burton and Johnny Depp were hired to put on the party. The party also featured the original Chewbacca from Star Wars.
    Despite their major celebrity status, Burton and Depp agreed to keep their participation a secret. Imagine how much they must have paid these mega stars to get confidentiality agreements.
    The extravagant and outlandish behavior of the Obama family is actually worse than the “racist” depiction of black politicians in the movie Birth of A Nation.
    Meanwhile in Eurabia:
    Oslo, Norway is one of the most dangerous cities in Europe. Liberal policies there have lead them to take in every refugee from anywhere in the world.
    Oslo has a higher crime rate than New York. It is a dangerous city that will soon be comparable to Detroit.
    Police, Fire, and Emergency workers can’t even enter many areas of Oslo without being attacked by the foreign population.
    Norway is going down the tubes. Total surrender to ‘ BRA’ and Saracen-Run Europe in Norway.
    AND REMEMBER THE GANGS IN MALMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    If you want you can Google :
    ‘Memorial for Lovell Mixon’ !
    ………………………………………………………………………………………….
    ALSO
    1….Don Levit
    ‘From my understanding, Jews have been kicked out of virtually every country in the world.’
    [well except Israel!!! And USA, Canada etc]
    YES, WHAT DID THEY DO TO BE SO DISLIKED, UNIVERSALLY?
    EVERYTHING HAS A CAUSE, REASON OR REASONS.

    2….Maybe rename yrself ARCHIES BUNKER..
    Best post of the first week of 2012/CFN:
    Archie Bunker replied to comment from Vlad Krandz | January 3, 2012 1:59 PM
    ‘Since I currently live in northwestern Mexico (formerly Southern California), I have to agree about the invasion of my former homeland by Mexican nationals and the effects on my immediate surroundings….’ [advice: Archie, get a bunker]
    Dale:
    ‘dale replied to comment from Vlad Krandz | January 5, 2012 11:48 AM | Reply
    BTW Vlad, I walked into one of the units I managed once where there were about 5-6 tatted up, boot wearing, ‘skins’ listening to some white power rock about ‘killin niggas’. I just looked over at them and said “turn that crap off”’
    If they had been Blacks no one would ever had heard from you again.
    Self Hatreds an amazing thing!
    Vlad:
    ‘I told Prog about the 1.2 million legal immigrants coming here every year. He didn’t believe me but acutally bothered to look it up – which is all I ever ask’
    [USA adds 6 million new people a year and 3 million die.]
    Vlad, you might enjoy ‘BARUCH, MY STORY’ He writes of his familys homestead and what had been the slaves quarters.
    Ehero :‘For example, I insist that ALL races are racist.’
    READ ‘THE DARK SIDE OF MAN’, It may be genetic
    Rhino ‘Asoka you have the sound of a man that does not actually believe ONE FUCKING THING that he says. …!!!!
    sez asoka: ‘Rhino, I am beyond embarrassment.’
    Anyone have info on Hamas and its links to Drug Cartels in Tijuana?????
    Wage, I support yr right to post whatever you want here. I am for free speech.
    ………………………………………………………………………………………………
    .
    [I have to stay away from this dang time waste, not enuff ‘HOW TO SURVIVE PEAK EVERYTHING INFO’, Or, perhaps we cant survive peak everything.]

  38. piltdownman January 9, 2012 at 11:27 am #

    “Citizens United” marked the point of new return. Corporations held sway before that, but SCOUTUS handed the keys of the kingdom to them with that decision and said, “Drive as fast as you want, don’t worry about street signs or lights and oh, by the way, feel free to drive drunk!”
    The “elections” are now just a dance, nicely choreographed by the Super PACS.

  39. squandernblunderbush January 9, 2012 at 11:29 am #

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/09/world/europe/amid-economic-strife-greeks-look-to-farming-past.html?hp
    As predicted…back to the farm when the financial situation becomes overwhelming…

  40. Momoftwo January 9, 2012 at 11:30 am #

    “A few months from now neither major party will have a credible candidate or a plausible platform of ideas. This will be painfully obvious. What angels and demons will rush into that awful vacuum?”
    –This dearth of ideas will not be obvious at all to the masses of subscribers. Myriad specious ones will inundate and rally Ameribots as these candidates engage in their usual chicanery, ignoring real problems while rallying the bots with junkfood issues like preserving marriage, ridding gays from the military, defending against an illusory war on religion and saving us from those who’d take away our guns and weigh us down with pointless regulations (I mean who needs clean air and water anyway? I know, right!).

  41. K January 9, 2012 at 11:32 am #

    Sad but true as usual James. Though again, as usual, the timeline is probably way too aggressive. We’ll likely be surprised at how long this whole scenario takes to play out as common fixations on notions long departed collectively serve as the ultimate conservatism. It will probably take a shock to the system, most likely in the form of a natural disaster, to shake people out of the trees. And then, there’s the remote possibility that people might actually awake to an entirely unfamiliar world that had been silently gestating during their slumber.
    http://www.Thesisa.org/

  42. Rhino January 9, 2012 at 11:42 am #

    This is the long-term direction of life in North America, by the way – a breakup into small autonomous governing units. – JHK
    That’s my question – nothing lasts forever so what shape will it take? I think there’s some outlines coming into view ie I heard that 87% of Republican votes in the last Presidential election came from the states of the old confederacy.
    So maybe, when the Washington bureaucracy no longer has the will or the military or financial wherewithal to exert its power there, that’s one chunk that will break away on its own. Maybe California is another. 38 million people makes a fair sized country by itself.
    There’s another possible scenario: who will be the American Romulus Augustulus and who will be the American Odovacar, the last American President and the General who shoos him out of Washington and into permanent retirement.
    Maybe there will be a rump country left, a group of die hard states calling themselves the United States of America, maybe clustered on the eastern seaboard, governed from Washington DC, while other de-facto independent countries are governed from regional capitols ie Chicago.

  43. malthus January 9, 2012 at 11:43 am #

    Hell you don’t even have to think about it on the conscience level. It is just so. And so much fun to observe it. There really are no secrets in the universes. Everything is right before you in plain sight.

  44. metuselah January 9, 2012 at 11:44 am #

    What these sanctimonious pricks don’t realize they are doing is destroying the very legitimacy of the idea that we’re capable of governing ourselves per se.
    ==
    That’s the money line.
    NOTHING is an accident. Everything is planned. JHK, you’ve correctly diagnosed the setup. But what you have not done is follow the money, and you have not identified the puppet masters behind puppet show. I know you say you are allergic to conspiracy talk, and that you don’t subscribe to the NWO global imperialist “conspiracy”. But you’re an intelligent person, and I’m sure sooner or later you’ll recognize the reality of the situation.
    The reality of the situation is that the Vatican and their Jesuit Order has been fighting a war against The Protestant Reformation and The Enlightenment for many years, decades, and centuries. After it has lost the 30 years war, the Vatican assumed a more clandestine posture and has been using its banking agents, its agents in various corporations, its agents in the various Secret Services, to implement its war objectives against Christian “heretics” and the Jews. Once you understand this, you will have a new perspective on history. A perspective that will now make sense of the contradictory facts that do not fit the official propaganda or official narrative of history.

  45. Lightfoot January 9, 2012 at 11:48 am #

    A long time ago I was involved in establishing the first Green Party in North America. The major initial funding that enabled the office, phones, etc. came from an airline pilot and a surgeon.
    The whole point of the effort was provide a political place for the “left” and “right” to come together without the inherited bullshit inherent in the prevalent political postures.
    In Canada our leaders purport to belong be “Conservative” but really they are a radical party, promoters of the foul Tar sands projects and, despite their claimed christianity, ever eager for war and the purchase of expensive weaponry from their friends.
    The Green party is a conservative party that recognizes that all facets of life happen within our environment, dinking with monetary systems or arguing about foundational principles or beliefs are a useless waste of time.
    The Green Party still has the potential to be the political place for those who care to vote for what matters.

  46. Smokyjoe January 9, 2012 at 11:56 am #

    JHK, I bet you and I are the only ones here who know who “Parson Weems” is without a Googling. I’d go a bit further in the Old Southwest’s stable of writers to find the ones for our times.
    Try on George Washington Harris and Johnson Jones Hopper for size. They have us some memorable stereotypes for dangerous American bumpkins and rubes: your Brother Jobe without the charm.
    We have a lot of GOP-lovin’ Sutt Lovingoods and Simon Sugges running about, pretending to be “edumakated”: potentially violent con-men and thugs, just waiting for their rancid moment to come. And the ever flaccid Obama may just give it to them.

  47. GAZ January 9, 2012 at 11:57 am #

    …someone talks about the “coffee party”, somebody else talks about the “foundation party” and then has the balls to say it represents the 100%! I guarantee you your silly “clubs” don’t represent me. This country is going to split up into smaller parts exactly as Jim predicts. Look at modern Africa and Mexico if you want to see whats coming. Just what makes this country worth saving anyway? I have no children so I really don’t care what happens anymore but at least I can be objective about it. People can’t even come to grips with their own mortality but they think they can save others from themselves! Every human that has ever lived or is alive now is flawed in some way, which is why no system of governance has ever lasted and why the cycle of war never ends. Hell is other people.

  48. ctemple January 9, 2012 at 11:57 am #

    You’re back huh bud?
    For the record St Louis murder rate went down, it went from three a day, to maybe only two a day, with the gang bangers shit bags doing almost all of it.
    Good luck to you in using facts, figures and logic to argue with Mr and Mrs J Evil Stupid Fuck.
    I don’t seem to care for it.
    Caleb Temple
    I hope the liberals don’t bitch too much that somebody had to bring race up!

  49. bproman January 9, 2012 at 12:09 pm #

    We interupt our regular programmed advertising, from our corporate sponsors, to bring you this important coin flip event.

  50. CaptSpaulding January 9, 2012 at 12:14 pm #

    I agree with you all the way. One thing I do wonder about though, is, when will it become too dangerous to be caught reading blogs like this? The thought police are out there, they just need a little more time.

  51. lbendet January 9, 2012 at 12:33 pm #

    Note: Paul Craig Roberts out did himself with a great description of exactly where we find ourselves today:
    http://www.vdare.com/articles/the-dismal-economic-outlook-for-the-new-year
    This describes our state of democracy or facism, the lies told to the American people and the way off-shoring and globalism has destroyed the middle class. All this for a few bankers and corporatists.
    It describes the NDAA as the repudiation the constitution. [the demise of the Constitution, the product of a eight hundred year struggle that produced Anglo-American civil liberty, is worth the price of “safety.”]

  52. Mrs Beasley January 9, 2012 at 12:34 pm #

    “…sincere doubts about the climate change “story?””
    I know of no one who doubts that the climate changes. It does so daily, continually, at all points of the compass. The only “story” is that the very vapor that man exhales is the cause. And that little “story” is a fucking fairy tale.
    Now be quiet and stroll down to the little store in your town square and try and purchase a clue.

  53. third_martini_banter January 9, 2012 at 12:38 pm #

    Line of the week:
    “There is an inverse relationship between the seriousness of these times and the laughable personalities vying for a place in history.”

  54. azgog January 9, 2012 at 12:40 pm #

    Yep, amid world shaking economic crises, relentlessly accelerating climate changes and the death of the American middleclass dream we are presented with “the unloading of the clown car” for new leadership prospects. Sheesh.
    But what can we expect from a country that is willing to contaminate its own aquifers with heavy metals and carcinogens in order to squeeze out a few more drops of its drug of choice. America is an energy junkie, its skin cracked and teeth rotting, oblivious to its decrepitude, waving its pistol around the Middle East streets and babbling like a madman. It is willing to ignore the radiation raining down on its farmland, even reducing the monitoring, in order to support the crack-pipe dream of nuclear power.
    We are in very deep denial on a number of fronts. The contest is going to be between those demanding a New Deal and those who will insist upon a resurrection of the Old Deal, even at the cost of Corporate Fascism and the complete elimination of liberty and free speech. So far it looks like most are willing to accept that prospect if they can keep their piggish lifestyles – which they won’t, BTW.

  55. Mrs Beasley January 9, 2012 at 12:41 pm #

    “What voices will resolve out of the phenomenal noise of gadget America, with its deafening tweets, incessant advertising, instant messaging, idiotic robo-calling, and ever-present flat-screen assault on the senses? ”
    This from a man whose site advertises a trip to Vegas so I can see Blue Man Group, Tweet about or get a “free” download of one of his books or read his blog on my Kindle (sorry, don’t have or want one).
    Ah, OK…I guess. Sounds slightly hypocritical but what the fuck.

  56. Hancock1863 January 9, 2012 at 12:42 pm #

    JHK,
    Excellent article, as is usually the case.
    We are all of us slaves to our own psychologies, to our own delusions, denial and willful ignorance.
    Your fantasy of a revolution against corrupt aristocracy is a major longshot, even in the best of times in the days of upslope before Peak Liberty, and doubly unrealistic given the extraordinary power of modern techniques of mass psychology, advertising, and PR, to deceive and contol most of the people most of the time.
    I have to admit, it’s a nice fantasy. Gives me the old 1776 warm fuzzies just to think about it. But 1776 was the end-product of a century or two of the Enlightenment as well as 1000 years of Medieval Chrstian madness spurring them forward, and whatever we are going through now is the very opposite of the enlightenment, and is a result of centuries of relative human progress that generally reduced by large amounts day-to-day unnecessary suffering and injustice in the world (even though, overall, a dent was barely made and now we regress back so swiftly)
    The Endarkment? Or will a simple “Dark Ages” suffice? Maybe it’s all about the idea that humanity, like water, constantly seeks it’s base evolutionary level.
    Again I say, the most likely way 21st Century RW Corporate Socialism will ultimately go, in one form or another, will be the way it’s predecessor, 1930s German RW National Socialism went, albeit with excellent PR, plausible deniability, and of course, a unique American flair: “Love American Style”, the sociopaths’ plausibly deniable love, cooing soft gentle words to their victims while setting them up to die, then letting them die.
    Think the Native Americans. Think the New Orleans Superdome during Katrina, writ 1000000 times larger.
    Doomer paranoia? No more absurd than your putting Michael Bloomberg, that poster child for the 0.01% Callous Corrupt Aristocracy Gang, forward as a potential “national savior”.
    I assume you missed or stared straight through his First Amendment comments as his cops were sweeping out the upstart rabble of Occupy.
    “There is no ambiguity in the law here. The First Amendment protects speech. It does not protect the use of tents and sleeping bags to take over a public space.”
    http://restoringtruthiness.org/8081/mayor-bloomberg-ows-amendment-protects-speech-assembly
    I also assume it is abundantly clear to you the massively transparent Big Lie Bloomberg promulgated by utterly ignoring the easily verifiable second part of the First Amendment that he purposefully omitted (either that or he is less educated in civics than a 5th grader, which is highly unlikely).
    You remember that part…you know, the right to freely assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances.
    Why did he leave it out? Likely, because Bloomberg knows that his Big Lie works just as well as it did when RW Corporate Socialism was in it’s much more brutally virulent 1930s Germanic form.
    And THIS is the man you would tout as a savior? Who either doesn’t know the First Amendment or doesn’t mind lying to we upstart rabble about it, knowing that most Americans cannot or will not be able to discern a Big Lie, particularly when it comes from aristocratic authority.
    Knowing beyond that, even if he is caught in the Big Lie, it will simply be lost in the nonsense of the cacophonous carnival of 21st Century National Dialog, which itself has literally obliterated the very concept of objective facts from the National Mind.
    Sadly, I assume you are like the rest of us, able to look straight through facts which don’t conform to your view of the world, or your personal ego and, ahem, tribal affiliations.
    Not that it makes you and yours substantially different from anyone else and theirs, in case you think I am singling you and yours for race or religion-based criticism. Nope. Just saying you and yours are at bottom, not very different from those “mean, dumb Teabaggers” you (and I)frequently deride.
    To put it another way, by the same logic that Smart Phones don’t automatically make people smart, a centuries-long PR program presenting people as the most conscience-stricken, moral people on Earth doesn’t make it so. Not even close. Even if it was true at one time, it sure ain’t anymore. Power corrupts, James. No race, creed, color, or religion is immune.
    See B’Tselem’s website for further information. As a longtime supporter of Israel who’s eyes were gradually opened by the building of the Great Wall of Israel, the murder of Rachel Corrie, the grotesquely lopsided “shooting fish in a barrel” barbarities of 2006 and 2008, with this lovely Israeli Army T-Shirt
    http://trendsupdates.com/current-fashion-rage-among-israeli-soldiers-t-shirts-with-images-of-dead-palestinian-babies-and-messages-like-one-shot-two-kills%E2%80%9D/
    as sort of a cherry on top, seeing the tiny sliver of actual conscience-stricken Israelis (the same tiny sliver that seems to exist in every society, no more) helped me understand that despising Israel’s increasingly brutal lying barbarity, torture and murder was NOT simply a case of hateful, carping anti-semitism, as is nearly universally framed by Israel’s numerous defenders (including the Christian Zionist Teabaggers, for the most part)
    http://www.btselem.org
    I say again, it doesn’t matter whether there is a globe-spanning conpiracy of multicultural aristocracy, Bliderberg-style, or this whole thing is 100% completely unintentional and uncoordinated at the top 0.01%, due to the psychology of collapse, both mass and individual, the trends, outcomes and analyses are nearly identical.
    In other words, as the ponzi scheme fully peters out within the next 20-50 years and the true suffering/horror of contraction begins, it doesn’t matter whether Bilderberg is just a harmless yearly gathering of fun in the sun or a malevolent tightly interwoven conspiracy of aristocratic lunatic “gods”, because the universal aristocratic self-interest to keep power and rank even on the sinking Titanic would compel them to behave, the closer to true collapse and major unrest, exactly AS IF there was a malevolent tightly interwoven conspiracy of aristocratic lunatic “gods”.
    You’ll see.

  57. wagelaborer January 9, 2012 at 12:45 pm #

    The Green Party doesn’t understand that the control of money creation is essential to a functioning democratic society?
    Clearly, you know nothing about the Green Party, or its position on money creation.
    http://www.monetary.org/
    I suggest that you check out the website, note that the Green Party has been on this issue for years, and refrain from slandering us anymore.

  58. Vlad Krandz January 9, 2012 at 12:47 pm #

    Serious People abandoned Obama years ago. Smart people never voted for him to begin with. I mean he was a Racist – obvious from his writings (probably done by Ayers) and going to Jeremiah Wright’s Church for twenty years. Yet Whites who pride themselves on not being Racist voted for him. So such people have neither consistency and decency, nor ordinary commonsense and a desire for self preservation.

  59. wagelaborer January 9, 2012 at 12:54 pm #

    And Jill Stein, who is running for President for the Green Party, ran for Governor of Massachusetts in 2010.
    Like Howie Hawkins in New York, Rich Whitney in Illinois, and Laura Wells of California, Jill Stein had a plan for a North Dakota-like State Bank in her platform.
    We do, indeed, understand that a debt-based monetary system is unsustainable, just like a profit-based economic system is unsustainable, because exponential debt or exponential growth are both impossible in a closed environment.
    Sooner or later, something has to give.
    In the bank system, the 99% have to give.
    In the economic system, the ecosystem has to give.
    So we’re watching mass impoverishment of the people in the economic ststem, and mass extinction of plants and animals in the ecosystem.

  60. ofthehands.com January 9, 2012 at 12:54 pm #

    I’m still of the mind that this presidential election will play out similar to the last few. I don’t foresee a major third party candidate and I think plenty of the population will rally around their party’s candidate. It will be crazed and stressful, people will be proclaiming the end of the world if their candidate isn’t elected, and each nominee will blame the other’s party as well as some foreigners for this country’s problem. Glorious days will be promised if the population just pulls the right lever.
    No doubt there will be some good protests and rowdiness, and that will probably provide the most unique element of this election. But otherwise it will go down much as normal. In the meantime, this country will just keep falling apart, poverty will become more widespread and most people will keep trying to ignore those facts. That’s what I’ve been writing about over at my blog, that we all need to learn to live in poverty since most of us are headed there anyway. Better to be as in control of that process as possible.
    One good wild card is an attack on Iran. I’d be shocked if this happened–I just don’t think Obama’s ready to go there yet and I can’t see how it wouldn’t skyrocket oil prices and provide a body slam to our economy, while simultaneously destroying what’s left of Obama’s support amongst the Democratic base. But, then again, I would never rule it out and god knows even progressives are willing to rally around a good war. I do worry about that path being taken in the next few years.
    A couple good disasters tied up with environmental degradation, energy acquisition and climate change may find their way into our lives this year, too. That could mix things up. Should be an interesting year, if a less than apocalyptic one.
    Joel

  61. Vlad Krandz January 9, 2012 at 12:59 pm #

    At last the People begin to awaken from the sleep of the 20th Century. Way back when people knew about Conspiracies. How not since our Founders were Conspirators – good ones? The Founders were very afraid of the Banking Conpiracy of Rothschild coming to America via the Bank of England. Such Anglophiles were present from the very begining and wanted to set up a Central American Bank just like England’s.
    Likewise, they were very afraid of the Illuminati infiltrating the Masonic Lodges as they did in France – which lead to the French Revolution. The horrors of which cured Franklin and Jefferson of their lingering Romanticism. The Russian Communists loved the personalities and tortures techniques of the French Revolution. The considered themselves their “spiritual” successors. Yes, Monsters both.
    Now you have to study what the Founders believed about Race and you are Home.

  62. loveday January 9, 2012 at 1:01 pm #

    Jim and all the gang
    Yes Jim, we do appear to be in a breathless waiting period. The future is clouded and obscured by the continued spewing of bullshit from the MSM, gov’mint and political hacks. But really they can’t continue to hide the little monsters of economic and social collapse much longer. Those two unruly personages are getting restless and rowdy in the national closet they are hidden in. They want to break out and explode with a vengeance into the open. Not even the advent of an Iranian conflict will keep them out of sight much longer.
    Ron Paul continues to speak contrary to the consensus being pushed by both wings of the War party. That at least is a glimpse of hope, he discusses taboo subjects, like peace, reducing our bloated military and he advocates individual liberties as articulated in the Constitution. So even though many doubt he can prevail, his persistent and growing stature is a victory in and of itself. As I have said before, I disagree with some of his positions, but really he is the only pol with alternative ideas at this perilous moment.
    I look for a moment of truth to occur very soon. March seems to be appropriately being targetted by those who attempt to follow ongoing trends. This is fitting as Ceasar could tell us, the Ides of March loom ahead. I have no idea what form this apocalypse( unveiling) will take, but look forward eagerly to the moment in horrified fascination. What will be revealed? Who will pay the price for the global misery, poverty and despair that has been imposed on all countries? Stay tuned, because in all probability this revolution of truth will be televised.
    loveday

  63. wardoc January 9, 2012 at 1:04 pm #

    Attention ! Do not worry. Do not look behind the so called curtain. The Psychopaths are in full control. You just aren’t privy to the nuances of their plan. Everything is as it should be.
    I repeat, the Psychopaths are in full control.
    Be quiet, be happy. Go back to sleep.

  64. Vlad Krandz January 9, 2012 at 1:09 pm #

    People smart enough to set up this system of enrichment are smart enough to know that it has a time limit. Obviously America is meant to propel them to World Dominance and then once used up, fall back to Earth like one of the fuel stages of the old Apollo rockets.
    Shame on Americans for being stupid enough to let it happen. Vote Ron Paul who will at least try to audit the Fed and get to the bottom of it.
    I’m sure the Elite have contingency plans. If it all falls apart they will be prepared to emerge from their shelters fully armed and in communication with each other. They intend to be the biggest kids on the block and recreate a medevial type civilization with themselves as the Lords and Ladies. America gave up on Civil Defence decades ago. Compare America with Switzerland which has shelters for every Citizen. The Citizen Soldiers of Switzerland fully intend to emerge from their shelters and defeat any invading force.

  65. helen highwater January 9, 2012 at 1:10 pm #

    Your ignorance is truly astounding.

  66. wagelaborer January 9, 2012 at 1:11 pm #

    Clearly, you also know nothing about the Greens.
    The Four Key Values include Grassroots Democracy.

  67. lbendet January 9, 2012 at 1:15 pm #

    Hancock,
    Good post. Doesn’t matter what drives the beast, only that it is a beast and we are in affect the micro-organisms on its back.
    It’s like what I say about state owned monopolies or corporate monopolies, it’s all the same when you have no choices.
    I think of the slow collapse as an event horizon, how big it is is anyone’s guess.

  68. sevenmmm January 9, 2012 at 1:19 pm #

    If these “protesters” act as individuals, it has a chance of effecting change. If they act as a group with leadership, it will be smashed. This is our government’s specialty.

  69. Elrond Hubbard January 9, 2012 at 1:20 pm #

    I know of no one who doubts that the climate changes. It does so daily, continually, at all points of the compass. The only “story” is that the very vapor that man exhales is the cause. And that little “story” is a fucking fairy tale.

    (a) What you’re describing is weather, not climate.
    (b) Arguing that increasing the concentration of carbon dioxide in the air cannot be harmful because human beings exhale it is as stupid as arguing that wetting the bed is normal because human beings excrete urine routinely. A waste product is a waste product. What matters is the balance of atmospheric CO2 between plants and animals, and how it affects retention of solar radiation.
    (c) On the Internet, clues are free:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPCC_Fourth_Assessment_Report
    You won’t even have to get out of your chair.

  70. Rhino January 9, 2012 at 1:23 pm #

    It’s tough to see how the European financial crisis resolves itself.
    Seems to me that the different versions of how to fix it is some variation of German taxpayers transfering a portion of their wealth and income to PIIGS countries so they don’t blow the place up – which ain’t gonna fly with the good German townspeople.
    Or it involves Italian and Greek politicians taking orders from German bureaucrats on how much they can spend – which ain’t gonna fly either.
    So I think this “fiscal union” that Eurocrats keep talking about is a fairy tale that sooner or later runs into local political realities.
    The graduates of the high falutin European grandes ecoles des hautes etudes (that really fucked things up) can fantasize all they want about how to fix things but the man in the square, be it in Germany or Greece or Italy, with his rocks and bricks and bottles will show the big thinkers what’s what.

  71. wagelaborer January 9, 2012 at 1:24 pm #

    It is very strange that so many Americans see so clearly that corporate domination of our political system is leading us into doom, and that the two corporate parties are unsalvageable, and that we need another choice, but…
    If I point out that the Green Party has in its platform (from 20 years ago) that we don’t accept corporate cash, and that we are committed to living in a sustainable, democratic, just society, the objection invaribly is…
    “You’re not viable”. Or “You’re not serious”.
    And just what defines viability or seriousness?
    Why, corporate money, of course. And corporate media exposure.
    Why do so few people see this?

  72. Evelyn Victor January 9, 2012 at 1:27 pm #

    We need to be wary of JHK’d sudden disappearance.
    His not so veiled calls for public violence as a response to our dysfunctional national leadership could be construed as supporting terra-ism under the new national security law thereby making him a candidate for being seized, incarcerated, and never to be heard from again.

  73. DreamCycle January 9, 2012 at 1:31 pm #

    BTW, great Eyesore for January. At long last, could we finally discontinue all government and private loans and grants for people who want to major in Planning? Divert the funds to people getting degrees in fine arts, English and philosophy. At least those poor souls are only screwing themselves.

  74. Dasviking January 9, 2012 at 1:37 pm #

    “Why did he leave it out? Likely, because Bloomberg knows that his Big Lie works just as well as it did when RW Corporate Socialism was in it’s much more brutally virulent 1930s Germanic form.”
    1930′s Nazi Germany was FL far left….(big government kontrol, regulations, subsidized welfare programs (think Autobahn and big military spending))….Far Right is close to anarchy and very small and limited Government……Zieg!!!

  75. Kurt Cagle January 9, 2012 at 1:41 pm #

    One of your better posts, Jim.
    In the novel I’m working on, one piece of back story is that the US/Canada breaks up into about several different blocs – the Confederate States (renamed the Free Republic of America), which eventually also captures Maryland, about half of Pennsylvania and Ohio, all of Indiana except around Gary, and half of Illinois, and extends west to the Texas border. West Texas itself becomes the anchor of the Western Alliance, a confederacy that includes most of the Rocky Mountain states, and is more or less allied with the FRA. Southwest Texas, NM, Arizona south of Scottsdale, California up to Monterey become El Norte, a Mexican-American hybrid state.
    The American Union extends northward from the expanded Mason-Dixon line, and even there you have an uneasy alliance between the Midwest and the Northeast, ultimately breaking down into the Maritime Alliance that ends up integrating New England with Eastern Canada, with its capital in Toronto and its largest city being Boston, and Lincoln, with it’s capital in Chicago and encompassing the Midwest. New York City, New Jersey and Connecticut become the New York Alliance. The West Coast from Monterey North and west of the Rockies becomes Cascadia, incorporating the Canadian coastal cities of Vancouver, Victoria, and Alaska’s Anchorage, Juneau and Kodiak. Hawaii becomes a Japanese protectorate.
    This is of course, pure speculation, but it most closely matches the geopolitical nations that exist today. The divide between “conservative” and “liberal” doctrine fairly closely aligns with these regions, with the conservatives for the most part echoing beliefs that really haven’t changed that much in more than two hundred years, echoing the old plantation era/southern aristocratic belief system, while the collectivist and communal approach of New England clearly mirrors the strong community orientations of the Pilgrims, Puritans and Quakers that founded the various northeastern states, as well as the Scandinavian, German and Norwegian immigrants into the Midwest. Jim’s call towards returning to community roots is New England at it’s purest.
    The Western Alliance reflects a strong religious ethos and a deep seated libertarianism that reflects the region’s background as a corporate vassal state (and the inhabitants corresponding distrust of government, which was all too often used punitively against the little guy by a corrupt corporate state), El Norte is a re-establishment of the Mestiso-dominated Spanish Empire holdings, while Cascadia reflects the polyglot culture of San Francisco, Portland, Seattle and Vancouver, which has an increasingly mixed-Asian face, a strong entrepreneurial orientation and a strong environmental awareness (in the book, this eventually becomes the Arcology of Cascadia).
    I don’t believe a full police state can ever be enacted over the United States in toto – the pressure would cause the country to break apart into its regional nations first, because a police state also exists to exert a value system upon its populace, and the value systems between regions are just too different. A police state in Oakland is very different from one in Chicago, New York, Atlanta or Denver.
    This obviously won’t happen tomorrow, but I’d say it will likely happen within the next forty years, especially if peak oil does in fact prove out. The established oligarchy is already collapsing – as evidenced by the increasingly desperate measures being taken to manage the status quo. Increased state controls are a manifestation of that collapse, but the more heterogeneous the population, the harder it is to prevent rebellion, and the US population is one of the most heterogeneous on the planet. We will devolve into civil war first.

  76. Rhino January 9, 2012 at 1:46 pm #

    Here’s another view. It’s from an article in the New York Times which itself draws on an article in the journal Science:
    “In the very long term, the ability to artificially warm the climate, particularly the Arctic, could be seen as a boon as the planet’s shifting orientation to the Sun enters a phase that could initiate the next ice age.” – NY Times
    This is the link with the journal Science:
    http://www.sciencemag.org/content/325/5945/1236.abstract
    So which is more disastrous? Global warming? Or an ice age which is not a figment of a fevered right wing imagination as we’ve been through a sequence of ice ages interspersed with warmer inter-glacial periods (like the one we’re in now) in the last two million years.
    I’ve read that the last ice age ended about 10 thousand years ago. They say that at its peak the northern hemishere was encased in ice sheets about two miles thick ie several million cubic miles of ice that lowered sea levels by several hundred feet.
    Now if you can imagine what a new glacial onset would do to the global food supply with breadbaskets like North American prairies and the European steppes getting progressively colder and ultimately under several thousand feet of glacial ice…
    So I leave it to you… which is worse?
    Personally I have no earthly idea.

  77. Elrond Hubbard January 9, 2012 at 1:46 pm #

    It is very strange that so many Americans see so clearly that corporate domination of our political system is leading us into doom, and that the two corporate parties are unsalvageable, and that we need another choice, but…

    It is strange, indeed. I find that Americans are so hypnotized by the assumptions of their locked-down two-party system that they are effectively immunized against the first prerequisite of a meaningful solution: a viable alternative to the Republicans and Democrats. Competitive third parties are a threat to their duopoly, so the incumbent parties have locked them out with arcane rules, and the bankrupt intellectual class plays its part with relentless propaganda that paints any alternative as being from the whacko fringe. The only solution is for U.S. Greens and others to double and re-double their efforts to break in and shake up the status quo. Believing you’ll never get anywhere is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

  78. Vlad Krandz January 9, 2012 at 1:56 pm #

    How does Jill stand on the State Of Massachusetts forcing the Church out of the Adoption Service since they wouldn’t place with Gay Couples? In other words, does she support Religious Freedom or Communist Oppression?

  79. Elrond Hubbard January 9, 2012 at 2:00 pm #

    So which is more disastrous? Global warming? Or an ice age which is not a figment of a fevered right wing imagination as we’ve been through a sequence of ice ages interspersed with warmer inter-glacial periods (like the one we’re in now) in the last two million years.

    I’m not arguing against the known fact that all recorded human history has taken placing during an interglacial period that has already gone on longer than these things normally do. That’s a serious long-term consideration, obviously. What I am arguing against is continuing a way of life that is effectively a mindless cancer consuming the biological wealth of this planet. We need a more mindful relationship with our world, as well as some humility about the wisdom of thinking we can ‘manage’ the global climate. If we ever have to attempt large-scale geo-engineering, our descendants may conclude that accepting a renewed Ice Age might have been the ‘less worse’ option.

  80. Vlad Krandz January 9, 2012 at 2:00 pm #

    The Chinese care not for the environment and will gradually take over Cascadia. The Whites will be driven into the Mountains to fight for Freedom, Trees, and Animal Rights from there.

  81. Rhino January 9, 2012 at 2:04 pm #

    Great post.
    Pure spec as you say but one that has some basis in historical reality in the USA.
    My bet is that it’s the states of the old confederacy that wave bye-bye first.
    IMO this will likely take decades – a gradual unravelling with a lot of acrimony, mutual loathing and recriminations – until something like a Ft Sumter event triggers a cascade of crises ending (or beginning depending on your point of view) in declarations of independence.

  82. ABSALOM January 9, 2012 at 2:06 pm #

    Here’s an RT interview with Paul Craig Roberts, discovered by link-chasing an earlier post from lbendet, about the merits of the GOP field and Ron Paul’s viability. Why anybody believes any candidate stands a chance to significantly alter this irreparably corrupt system is astonishing. What, then, is the point of voting for those of you pushing even alternative candidates? Roberts seemingly shares this view.
    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2012/01/03/capital-account-paul-c-roberts-ron-paul-has-his-hands-full-trying-to-restore-the-constitution/
    Even if Paul could get elected, his presidency would face intense and genuine controversy different to the phony congressional partisanship presently sold to voters by the PR shills in the MSM. Shills, I’ll add, who post candidate plugs here ad infinitum.
    At any rate, the only conclusion I’ve been able to reach from just a few weeks of using this site is that A.) the “can kicking” (printing money) will continue INDEFINITELY absent any new major boots on the ground war that causes a sudden significant spike in oil costs, and B.) as long as the U.S dollar continues to be the the world’s primary exchange currency for oil. All this seems to be on the radar, but hasn’t it been for years?
    I mean what else is there? The so called banksters seem to be getting away with every unethical act imaginable. The politicians are wholly complicit to the schemes. And the majority of the voting public still believes in the top-down democratic structure. Have I oversimplified or missed a different factor that will make a full-scale economic collapse instantaneous? It just feels like all the phenomena that should have brought about collapse already have been cleverly thwarted. It seems like 2012 will be another year full of scandals that never materialize into any game changing events. Looks like bleeding to death instead of a plain crash.
    ABSALOM

  83. Vlad Krandz January 9, 2012 at 2:09 pm #

    Global Warming would be gradual allowing for the building of dikes, relocation, etc. In contrast, Ice Age conditions could come on within a couple of decades. The snow stops melting and that in turns makes the world colder, and that in turn brings the no melt zone further to the south and so on. The original cause would be a relative lack of solar activity of course.

  84. ABSALOM January 9, 2012 at 2:18 pm #

    Oops, apologies for the blatant mispellings

  85. ABSALOM January 9, 2012 at 2:19 pm #

    And again

  86. ABSALOM January 9, 2012 at 2:19 pm #

    LMAO

  87. Al Klein January 9, 2012 at 2:23 pm #

    Absalom, I can certainly understand, and empathize, with your points about this “having gone on for years.” I can remember my mother saying to me back in the 1970′s that the stock market, was evolving into “gambling no better than Las Vegas, but more rigged” and that the nation was being run “by liquidators”. Oh how precient and accurate Mom was, may she rest in peace! But regarding what certainly appears to be gradualism, your quandary may be adequately addressed by a joke. A guy jumps out of a window on the 40th floor of a skyscraper. On his way down, an observer at a window on the 20th floor shouts to the jumper as he passes by “How’s it going?” To which the jumper responds, “So far so good!” Things can appear to be working until some kind of breaking point is reached.

  88. Confusionism January 9, 2012 at 2:27 pm #

    “In what sort of Creationist parthenogenetic incubator are such pietistic idiots hatched?”-JHK
    Fucking classic. Will I, one day, cease to be amazed at the degree to which the knuckle-dragging troglydites that are the voters lap up the grool that these self-promoters are serving? I’m not sure we are capable of self-governance.

  89. Al Klein January 9, 2012 at 2:29 pm #

    Also sorry for the misspelling. “Precient” should read “prescient” in my recent post in response to Absalom. G-d forbid that the grammar and spelling troll on this board should spot my transgression!

  90. Funzel January 9, 2012 at 2:30 pm #

    since we are still on the subject of Racism..
    Hey,there goes a flock of sparrows..not a single blackbird in the bunch…damn Racists,
    look at that bunch of blackbird that went by…not a crow in the group…damn Racists.Get it morons?

  91. Al Klein January 9, 2012 at 2:40 pm #

    Vlad, my grandfather, a WWI veteran in the German army (shot twice on the French front) said something similar to your point to my mother some 60 years ago (he was an immigrant to the US in the 1920′s). He said that in the US the ruling class would support patriotism amongst the rank and file until “they had gobbled up the world” at which time they would leave the rank and file to the vagaries of future history (i.e. cut them loose), no longer having need for their support. I would add the same can be said of the US corporations. I can remember back in the 1960′s and 1970′s the companies would talk of their personnel being their most important capital. Who hears that nowadays? No more personnel department, now its “human resources.” Welcome to reality.

  92. progress2conserve January 9, 2012 at 2:55 pm #

    Nice weeks work, JHK. Thank you, as always.
    “Likewise, in the USA, some pressure-cooked December employment statistics gave the false impression of a brightening jobs picture, but no major news network dared to glance behind the curtain….” -JHK-
    Indeed! And part of what’s behind the curtain are 100,000 legally admitted US immigrants per month.
    Q. Where are these new inhabitants going?
    A. Mostly into crowded city and suburban areas.
    Q. How do they live, with near zero job growth?
    A. Mostly on AFDC, section 8, and govt. programs.
    Q. What happens to the US middle class?
    A. The middle class gets by on less and less income, it shrinks, and it finally vanishes completely.
    Yep – It’s easy to see the future. It’s harder to understand why the US won’t perform the simple, legal expedient of reducing immigration inflows – legally, just by changing numbers on pieces of Federal Level paperwork.
    We are an amazing people.
    Economically doomed, but amazing.
    http://www.cis.org/

  93. Hancock1863 January 9, 2012 at 2:56 pm #

    How Nazi-like of you to say so.
    Sure, in spite of the fact that the Nazis were considered Far Right by their peers…
    In spite of the fact that the Nazis considered themselves Far Right…
    In spite of the fact that the primary donors during the rise of the Nazis were Fritz Thyssen, the German Industrialists, and a large part of the German Aristocracy (groups notorious for their support of Communists – chuckle)…
    In spite of the fact that the actual most honest Far Right, relatively undeceptive, strictly nationalist party of early 1930s Germany, the Stahelm, eventually happily merged with the Nazis…
    In spite of Nazisms extreme loathing of both Communists and Left/Liberal & Communist Jews…
    …sure they were Far Lefties.
    Rewrite history all you want, Goebbels. It makes it no more true than when the Soviet Commies did it in the 70s.
    I’d tell you to go get educated and read a little history, but we both know you won’t do that.
    Sure…Adolf Hitler and the Liberal Jews…on the same side! Adolf Hitler and Anne Frank surely wanted the same things, right? They just had a sort of intramural scrum over how to do it.
    Everytime a fool says Hitler was a Lefty like the Commies and Jews he murdered by the millions, a Demon gets his pitchfork.
    Good job, bright boy. Somewhere a Demon wants to thank you for his shiny new badge of rank…

  94. Mrs Beasley January 9, 2012 at 3:01 pm #

    How so oh brilliant one?

  95. Mrs Beasley January 9, 2012 at 3:11 pm #

    “We need a more mindful relationship with our world, as well as some humility about the wisdom of thinking we can ‘manage’ the global climate. If we ever have to attempt large-scale geo-engineering…”
    So we need “humility” in “thinking we can ‘manage’ the global climate.” But then you suggest we may attempt “large-scale geo-engineering…”? Shut the fuck up, idiot.

  96. Dasviking January 9, 2012 at 3:18 pm #

    Mr Hancock………the National socialist party started out left wing regardless of what your saying here……it was a dictatorship utilizing both wings…… It was bread on the idea of backing the workers through socialism and people backed them at first because Germany was in such a bad depression…….people love to vote for the canidate that promise goodies……almost exactly whats going on today……

  97. Newfie January 9, 2012 at 3:27 pm #

    As the Happy Motoring lifestyle fades away during this century, it will leave behind vast tracts of land covered with asphalt.
    “the total area of all parking spots in the U.S. could cover Connecticut and Vermont”
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/arts/design/taking-parking-lots-seriously-as-public-spaces.html

  98. Mrs Beasley January 9, 2012 at 3:36 pm #

    Following description of book “Liberal Fascism” By Jonah Goldberg
    ““Fascists,” “Brownshirts,” “jackbooted stormtroopers”—such are the insults typically hurled at conservatives by their liberal opponents. Calling someone a fascist is the fastest way to shut them up, defining their views as beyond the political pale. But who are the real fascists in our midst?
    Liberal Fascism offers a startling new perspective on the theories and practices that define fascist politics. Replacing conveniently manufactured myths with surprising and enlightening research, Jonah Goldberg reminds us that the original fascists were really on the left, and that liberals from Woodrow Wilson to FDR to Hillary Clinton have advocated policies and principles remarkably similar to those of Hitler’s National Socialism and Mussolini’s Fascism.
    Contrary to what most people think, the Nazis were ardent socialists (hence the term “National socialism”). They believed in free health care and guaranteed jobs. They confiscated inherited wealth and spent vast sums on public education. They purged the church from public policy, promoted a new form of pagan spirituality, and inserted the authority of the state into every nook and cranny of daily life. The Nazis declared war on smoking, supported abortion, euthanasia, and gun control. They loathed the free market, provided generous pensions for the elderly, and maintained a strict racial quota system in their universities—where campus speech codes were all the rage. The Nazis led the world in organic farming and alternative medicine. Hitler was a strict vegetarian, and Himmler was an animal rights activist.
    Do these striking parallels mean that today’s liberals are genocidal maniacs, intent on conquering the world and imposing a new racial order? Not at all. Yet it is hard to deny that modern progressivism and classical fascism shared the same intellectual roots. We often forget, for example, that Mussolini and Hitler had many admirers in the United States. W.E.B. Du Bois was inspired by Hitler’s Germany, and Irving Berlin praised Mussolini in song. Many fascist tenets were espoused by American progressives like John Dewey and Woodrow Wilson, and FDR incorporated fascist policies in the New Deal.
    Fascism was an international movement that appeared in different forms in different countries, depending on the vagaries of national culture and temperament. In Germany, fascism appeared as genocidal racist nationalism. In America, it took a “friendlier,” more liberal form. The modern heirs of this “friendly fascist” tradition include the New York Times, the Democratic Party, the Ivy League professoriate, and the liberals of Hollywood. The quintessential Liberal Fascist isn’t an SS storm trooper; it is a female grade school teacher with an education degree from Brown or Swarthmore.
    These assertions may sound strange to modern ears, but that is because we have forgotten what fascism is. In this angry, funny, smart, contentious book, Jonah Goldberg turns our preconceptions inside out and shows us the true meaning of Liberal Fascism.

  99. Elrond Hubbard January 9, 2012 at 3:43 pm #

    So we need “humility” in “thinking we can ‘manage’ the global climate.” But then you suggest we may attempt “large-scale geo-engineering…”? Shut the fuck up, idiot.

    Go back and re-read the rest of the sentence about geo-engineering — the part where I suggest our descendants might conclude it was a bad idea. Mrs. B. gets zero points for reading comprehension, but full marks for both straw-man argumentation and vulgar abuse.

  100. asoka. January 9, 2012 at 3:44 pm #

    Illegal immigrants do not qualify for subsidized anything. Legal immigrants are getting less and less all the time. Illegal immigrants do not get “welfare” or food stamps or section 8.
    Clinton eliminated welfare in the USA. Remember the 1990s. There were 12.3 million receiving AFDC in 1996. Then Clinton eliminated welfare and changed it to Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF, with a work requirement attached). Only 4.4 million received TANF in 2010. Quite a decrease from 12.3 million to 4.4 million.
    Similarly with the Food Stamp program. Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) is the modern-day successor to the Food Stamp program and serves 44 million Americans.
    43% of all food stamp beneficiaries are white, 33% are African-American, 19% Hispanic, and 2% Asian.
    Clinton’s welfare reform in 1996 also imposed some duration limits on receiving food stamps. In any event illegal immigrants are not entitled to food stamps.
    Likewise, with Section 8 housing. There is an employment requirement attached, and illegal immigrants are not able to work legally, so they are not eligible for section 8 housing.
    Through the Housing Choice Voucher program, 3.1 million low-income households receive aid, but it is not free. Typically, tenants pay about 30% of their income for rent, while the rest of the rent is paid with federal money. Thus, the more income that a beneficiary makes, the less the federal government will subsidize.

  101. The Mook January 9, 2012 at 3:51 pm #

    Why is everyone so pumped up about WWIII? I think Civll War II will be a much bloodier and fiercely fought contest. As usual, I will be supporting the underdog.

  102. Max January 9, 2012 at 4:03 pm #

    “Are you charmed by their absurd casual clothing?”
    Come to think of it….yes. Those sleeveless, v-necked sweater vests sported by Sen. Sanatorium really goes well with and compliments the delivery of his reactionary, ‘dog-whistle’ messaging. I couldn’t imagine a more appropriate sartorial accompaniment.

  103. Widespreadpanic7 January 9, 2012 at 4:05 pm #

    Ya Jim, revolution might be in the offing for next summer, but right now the miracle Denver Broncos and Tim Tebow beat the mighty Steelers, and frozen Buffalo Wings are on sale at the local Piggly Wiggly Market for $1.79 per pound!!!
    –WSP7

  104. metuselah January 9, 2012 at 4:16 pm #

    Everytime a fool says Hitler was a Lefty like the Commies and Jews he murdered by the millions, a Demon gets his pitchfork.
    ==
    Hitler was a Vatican/Jesuit tool, as was Stalin. Study their early history! Both received their early training by Jesuits. Both received their funding, their propaganda and political cover, their industrial war making capacity and technologies from the same source. That source being the Vatican, via their Wall Street Banks and Corporations.
    The aim is to eliminate heretics (Orthodox Christians, Protestant Christians, Jews, etc.) and to consolidate the Vatican’s hold on Europe (and the world) via the political dialectic of Fascism vs Communism. (Both are really the same thing).
    This is a war that dates many centuries. It predates WWI and WWII. It is a war that goes back to the Protestant Reformation and the Enlightenment that followed. It is a war against Liberalism, knowledge and freedom. It is a war to that seeks to re-establish world tyranny and domination.
    The banking cartel, the corporate cartel, the various Secret Services, the captured governments, the captured political parties, the NGOs, the media, etc. — these are all owned and controlled by the Vatican and their proxies. You are partially correct in that what we are witnessing is the setting up of the NWO, the old Dark Ages. What you don’t realize, is how deep the rabbit hole goes. The “New World Order” is really the old age of Rome and Romanism. And that’s what the Vatican is all about!

  105. Mrs Beasley January 9, 2012 at 4:22 pm #

    “Go back and re-read the rest of the sentence about geo-engineering — the part where I suggest our descendants might conclude it was a bad idea.”
    Why would they conclude it was a bad idea unless we had attempted to actually practice it you imbecile? And why would we attempt such a thing if we had practiced the humility you called for?
    Now be quiet for a bit and reflect on your stupidity with humility.

  106. progress2conserve January 9, 2012 at 4:25 pm #

    Nice post, HC. And man, I’ve got to hand it to you for creativity:
    “The Endarkment? Or will a simple “Dark Ages” suffice?” Funny stuff, Hancock. Chilling, but funny.
    Some poster, Captain Spaulding maybe?, asks if and when the simple act of reading a website like this one, will get the reader in trouble with authorities.
    It’s a good question. I HAD begun to assume the opposite – - – That the existence of websites like this one – with our plethora of demonstrably wacked out posters – is a way for the Elites of our Corporations and Government to channel mental energy – in to something that is easily monitored, yet essentially useless.
    But, then there is the new Internet censorship law. And there are existing “Hate Speech” laws.
    You may be about to find out, Hancock. Criticizing JHK’s “tribe” and the actions of their Tribal Nation, even with the careful disclaimers that you used – you appear to be out on thin CFN ice, doing a beautiful pirouette.
    And you’ve gone and gotten Vlad wanting to talk to you. I was encouraged to self-censor, late last week – as though even attempting a conversation with the resident White Nationalist – puts me beyond the Pale. (bad joke, I know)
    You’ve been asking – who or what will be the new minority, targeted for persecution and death, as the United States descends into a Dark Age. Certainly not the Jews, nor any other minority that has ever been persecuted before. Being novel thinkers, we Americans will want a NEW outgroup to ostracize and blame.
    I’m thinking the non-minority elderly will be special targets for hate and discrimination.
    Ironic bad luck for most of us on here, huh?
    And thanks for mentioning this organization. I’d never heard of them, until you posted today.
    http://www.btselem.org/
    You sure you don’t have your own blog or something, HC. I’d like a way to keep in touch, if we both get banned, here.

  107. progress2conserve January 9, 2012 at 4:33 pm #

    Third party candidates -
    There’s no doubt that the two party system is a large part of the reason that the US is so bifurcated and FUBARED, socially.
    But supporting a 3rd party candidate (Nader) gave us BushII, courtesy of Florida.
    And supporting another 3rd party candidate (Perot) gave us Clinton instead of BushI.
    It’s fine to fight for the abolition of the two-party system.
    But simply voting for a 3rd party candidate in a close election – really does mean throwing your vote away – into unintended causes.

  108. metuselah January 9, 2012 at 4:42 pm #

    This is an organization that pretends to be Israeli, but is not. It receives its funding from Europe/Vatican. The aim is that of propaganda against Israel. This is done via Vatican sponsored Litvaks pretending to be Jews, who go out and abuse and incite both the IDF and the Arabs. It is a hall of mirrors. That whole puppet show is produced and distributed by the Vatican and their proxies.

  109. Elrond Hubbard January 9, 2012 at 4:49 pm #

    Why would they conclude it was a bad idea unless we had attempted to actually practice it you imbecile? And why would we attempt such a thing if we had practiced the humility you called for?

    Um, I suppose I should thank you for parroting my own argument back to me. The problem is, you seem to think I disagree with myself. To restate my point: Our approach to our planet and its climate is arrogant and assumes we understand more than we do. As a result, we are in danger of trying something stupid, like geo-engineering, in the belief that we can control the results. Our descendants will judge us for the results.
    You are now into negative points for reading comprehension. Also, I’m pretty sure you’re the same troll I’ve had the displeasure of tangling with before in this forum, so go find someone else to feed your appetite for nonsense. I’m sure you won’t be able to resist what you will consider a totally crushing riposte, so consider yourself pre-ignored.

  110. progress2conserve January 9, 2012 at 4:51 pm #

    What an impedimentary answer, asoka..
    Congratulations!
    My entire post was about reducing legal immigrants.
    LEGAL! L E G A L! ! !
    Over half of asoka.’s answer concerned ILLEGAL immigrants. sheesh.
    And K-dog was wondering why I usually say LEGAL AND illegal immigration, when that’s what I mean.
    See the problem, K-dog? You too, SNAFU?
    Nobody gets it, even our resident impediment on all things immigration related.
    Within two decades we’re going to have all of the bad things associated with overpopulated third world living, here in our own United States; hunger, starvation, disease, and death – and none of the good things.
    We’re Americans! Throttles to the firewall! Rah!
    ==============================
    Standing by for pro-immigration reply from asoka., involving:
    1. Economic growth is always good
    2. Moral Platitudes
    3. Ethnic dining and entertainment
    Anybody got anything better?

  111. wagelaborer January 9, 2012 at 4:54 pm #

    I’m pretty sure that mrs beasley is oeo in drag.
    There is no point in trying to carry on a conversation with him.

  112. progress2conserve January 9, 2012 at 4:55 pm #

    What I think I’m hearing you say, metuselah, is:
    1. Israel always Good
    2. Vatican always Bad
    Does that, pretty much, sum it up for us?

  113. wagelaborer January 9, 2012 at 5:05 pm #

    And voting for Obama gave us Bush the Third. I see no improvement with Mr. Hopey Changey, just a continuation of fascist tendencies, on a continuum through the two coroporate parties.
    Asoka just pointed out the damage that Clinton did to the social safety net. Clinton also starved Iraqi children and bombed Sudan, Iraq and Yugoslavia.
    He also pushed NAFTA, the WTO and his vice-president, Al Gore, sabotaged the Kyoto treaty negotiations.
    Obama has passed the first law ever forcing every American to buy health insurance, presided over trillions of dollars given to banksters, while millions of Americans are thrown out of their homes, increased the attack on Afghanistan, and added attacks on Pakistan, Libya and Yemen, while supporting covert attacks on Syria and Iran, all the while openly threatening to attack Iran. He openly assassinated two US citizens, one a 16 year old, and JUST LAST WEEK signed a bill legalizing throwing anyone on the planet into indefinite detention, without charges or trial. Have you already forgotten?
    And I’m supposed to think that voting for one of the two corporate parties won’t get me unintended results????
    You must think that I’m an idiot, Prog.

  114. metuselah January 9, 2012 at 5:09 pm #

    Just follow the news. Who is it that you ALWAYS hear about ALL the time? Who is it that NEVER here about?
    Coincidence? I think not.
    I’m not saying Israel is perfect, nobody is. I’m saying that there’s a deliberate and constant long running campaign to bring Israel to the headlines, no matter how trivial the story. And often the story is staged and is a projected lie, produced and distributed by the Vatican and its proxies to vilify Israel by false misrepresentations.

  115. wagelaborer January 9, 2012 at 5:14 pm #

    Which new minority will be targeted for persecution?
    Rather than speculation, why don’t you look at trends?
    Blacks and latinos are thrown into prison at a much higher rate than whites.
    Arabs are being slandered the way jews were traditionally. (Although posters on this blog shows that old ways die hard.)
    Sure, they’re also pushing generational warfare, but the ones already doing time are the ones I would consider to be the special targets.
    Obama’s health insurance company enrichment bill will kill off the elderly without actually shipping them to concentration camps.
    As medical care becomes more expensive, and more hospitals are shut down, (especially in rural areas), then people who are sick, but could be saved, will die.
    It will be seen as natural. It’s already starting, but with elderly blacks, not whites. It’s referred to as “lowering of life expectancy”.
    So pay attention.

  116. Hancock1863 January 9, 2012 at 5:15 pm #

    That was fun.
    Not only did you use the old moron’s logic, “Of course the Nazis were Lefties, they had the word Socialists in their name.”
    Geez, by that “logic” the Republicans stand for a Republic and the Democrats for Democracy because, you know, that’s what they call themselves.
    Actually, both are working for your Masters, 21st Century American RW Corporate Socialism.
    THEN you have the nerve to cut and paste nonsense from the heart of the Right Wing Noise Machine, demonstrably some of the worst liars and deceivers in all of history. The true inheritors of the Nazis, at least propaganda-wise.
    You know what’s funniest about you Right-Wing Authoritarian Followers?
    It’s not the cognitive dissonance and the liquidity of your own views depending on what the Corporate-State propaganda says, no matter whether they are completely the opposite of what you believed the day before (i.e. 1980-1992 “Deficits don’t matter!”; 1993-2000 “Deficits are terrible!”; 2000-2008 “Deficits don’t matter!” 2008-? “Deficits are terrible!” – what could be a more Nazi style of “flexible thought” that modern American RWAs?).
    Plus, like most RWAs you can’t even think for yourself. Cut and paste. Sheesh.
    There’s so much that is historical innaccuracy in that cut and paste it would be a tremendous waste of time to correct it. Plus, the more facts I would expose you to, the more you would cling to the lies. As Bush said, you create your own reality. Actually, you don’t create anything, you just repeat like a mindless parrot the words of your cunning masters. A curious human phenomena, but very prevalent, especially since Ed Bernays and the invention of psychologically desgined PR.
    Hey, maybe you should cut and paste more Nazi-style upside-down wholly false propaganda. That will surely prove that you’re no Nazi.
    Bet you don’t know who the Nazis greatest political foes were before 1933? Why…the Democrats. But not just Democrats…the German SOCIAL Democrats, a bunch of liberals, with a pinch of actual socialism.
    So, who do you think would have hated the German Social Democrats more (or the modern Democrats, for that matter), you or the Nazis?
    I think it’s a coin-toss.

  117. Hancock1863 January 9, 2012 at 5:19 pm #

    I’m pretty sure that mrs beasley is oeo in drag.
    There is no point in trying to carry on a conversation with him.

    Damnit. Wish I’d read your post before wasting 15 minutes of my life on that human garbage sack.
    One thing that helps them in that regard is, like the Nazis, they are so uniform in thought and word (even when they aren’t cut and pasting lies) it’s difficult to tell them apart since they all repeat the same bullshit in almsot the same words.
    But thanks for the heads up. I won;t make that mistake again.

  118. asoka. January 9, 2012 at 5:26 pm #

    Met, didn’t the Vatican and Israel establish diplomatic ties in 1993?

  119. wagelaborer January 9, 2012 at 5:31 pm #

    Vandana Shiva is my hero.






  120. Hancock1863 January 9, 2012 at 5:37 pm #

    Obama’s health insurance company enrichment bill will kill off the elderly without actually shipping them to concentration camps.
    As medical care becomes more expensive, and more hospitals are shut down, (especially in rural areas), then people who are sick, but could be saved, will die.

    Exactly what I have been talking about when I mentioned 21st Century “Love American Style”.
    Nazis with better PR and more plausible deniability – this appears to be the inevitable end of the now ironclad trendline in 21st Century America, whatever the actual details look like.
    “It can’t happen here,” my ass! It’s pretty much already happened, and all that remains is for the corpse of the former USA to hit the ground with a meaty thud, landing directly on the dissenters and the free thinkers, the poor and the weak, of course.
    Small consolation, Wage, but we can take a bit of vicious pleasure in the same way we would have had we lived in Weimar 1931. Because it is a virtual certainty that all these ignorant Right-Wing Authoritarian Followers and not a few deserving Obama-bots will eventually see the terrible machinery of the RW Corporate Socialist State turned upon them, either by using them as disposable bullet-shields or getting a dose of their own “Love, American style” right back at ‘em. And so many of them will lick RW Corporate Socialism’s boots, even as they are ground to dust beneath it’s heel, because they know no other way to live than to play Follow the Leader.
    It’s not much, but when living on the sinking Titatnic, every little pleasure helps, even if it is a bit “Jerry Springer”-ish.

  121. wagelaborer January 9, 2012 at 5:38 pm #

    Actually, I’m glad you did. I started to respond to that same old garbage, but wore myself out just thinking about it.
    It’s just an impudent reversal of the truth to call the Nazis left wing, and yet, as Hitler pointed out, if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it.
    So thanks for calling him out.

  122. wagelaborer January 9, 2012 at 5:43 pm #

    Yeah, but because the Nazis came for the communists, and came for the socialists, and came for the trade unionists, they didn’t get to see what happened.
    I’m guessing we won’t last long either.

  123. Vlad Krandz January 9, 2012 at 5:54 pm #

    And notice that stock dividends became much rarer after defined benefits ended and everyone was supposed to become little Capitalists and invest in Stocks for a secure future via the IRA, Roth, etc.
    They got us coming and going.

  124. Vlad Krandz January 9, 2012 at 5:57 pm #

    Again the anti-White rhetoric of the Left. Elderly Whites are suffering. And Blacks and Latinos should be in jail more since the commit more crimes. Sheesh, will you get a clue?

  125. Vlad Krandz January 9, 2012 at 6:01 pm #

    Are you saying that the Israeli Defence Force is really the Vatican? Or that they just “make” them wear those T shirts? Do you have one?

  126. Bustin J January 9, 2012 at 6:23 pm #

    SQBB says “greeks-look-to-farming-past.html?hp
    As predicted…back to the farm when the financial situation becomes overwhelming…”
    I read that article. I think its a common thing to have in the back of one’s mind “the land”. You know, “the land you can go back to”.
    On a global scale, its unthinkable. If humanity had to go back to the land there would be nothing to go back to. Much of the arable land is under cultivation. In countries where there are no parks, wilderness, or protected lands, the problem is acute. People simply set upon wherever there is bounty, and quickly damage and disable that area’s ability to sustain the bounty. Then they chicken-scratch the land until its raw and bleeding. Then they move or starve. The massively subsidized Ag corporations are doing the same except the erosion is well-disguised by fertilizer inputs and crop cover. Plus no one sees a meadow where there has been permanent cultivation for the last 150 years.
    Kunstler’s back to the land theory gains support by the Greek example, but the glaring difference is contained in the article. As a social practice it seemed that investment in real estate was widespread. No such tradition exists here. Americans that own real estate own barren corporate buildings, or their own houses. The lots they stand on are practically sterile and incapable of supporting life. That predicts that an American movement ‘back to the land’ will not be a migration of stake-holders but as people entering the labor-force in one of America’s least-paid, most dangerous occupations.
    As for Greece, lets see how these folks make out after a season or two.

  127. Hancock1863 January 9, 2012 at 6:27 pm #

    Thanks for the compliment.
    It’s curious that Vlad would keep trying to engage me, often in a semi-friendly fashion, when I could NEVER embrace his worship of inequality and shameless domination of the poor and weak by the rich and strong, regardless of what disguises he tries to use to sell me.
    Hell, last week he told me that he “agreed” with me, and that he supported the aristocracy of merit and BREEDING.
    Well, duh, any intelligent eigth-grader could figure out what’s grotesquely hypocritically twisted about that typical Nazi double-speak, and how the very statement he produces to “agree” with me is actually diametrically opposed to my stated position.
    B’Tselem is brave and great, and while they may eventually fall into danger, my sense is that, for whatever reason, Israel is a little bit more committed to the illusion of freedom and democracy that the former USA, even though neither nation is free or democratic in any sense of the word besides propaganda’s window-dressing.
    As long as Israel needs to keep pretending, B’Tselem is pretty safe from at least overt brutality, I would think. From a PR standpoint, Israel’s rulers would be more damaged by losing their window-dressing by treating Jewsish dissidents like they treat ordinary Palestinians with apartheid, torture, and murder, as opposed to letting “little dogs bark” in an era when nothing can be heard over the cacophonous modern propaganda machine.
    Remember, by considering EVERYTHING as a PR problem and nothing else, will give you a significant edge in understanding aristocratic thinking, therefore better understanding the present and predicting future trends. Everything is PR today. Period. That is how our Rulers think and science and experience has proven them sadly correct.
    Of course, it’s also the kind of “pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” thinking that could get you lynched, beaten, or otherwise harrassed in a decade or so, you freethinking socialist hippie!
    “Our beloved Job Creators would NEVER be so base as that. They LOVE us and NEED us! Only poor people are as venal as THAT!”
    The punishments for disbelieving RW Corporate Lies will surely get more severe as the economic and political collapse picks up speed.
    Though the “informal” punishments of disbelieving Corporate State Lies, are already pretty high right now and work in tandem with economic desperation.
    I, too, have had similar dichotomous thoughts about the nature of internet postings and also can’t decide which is true. Like most complex human systems, both are probably partially true.
    Think of our aristocracy’s situation like Caesar as he tried to get Rome under his domination. From the perspective of his enemies, Caesar never made a mistake, was invincible, and was comfortably twelve steps ahead of everyone else.
    But the history shows that, from Caesar’s perspective, he was in a desperate race in which he kept having hairsbreadth victories just a step or two ahead of his own destruction until the Senate was fully broken, defeated, and he was finally acknowledged as dictator for a ten-year term.
    It’s a little more complicated than that, but it gives you the flavor of my thinking on this. Like how the final destruction of the Bill of Rights came so quick and hard on the heels of Occupy being swept away in a cloud of pepper spray and the usual police brutality.
    If our Rulers were as smooth and invincible as it appears from below, they wouldn’t have rushed so quickly to fully end the Bill of Rights, which tipped their hands to probably a few more people. But they did, beacue like Caesar, from their level they are in a desperate race to get us fully under metaphorical and perhaps literal lock and key before enough people wake up or some other Black Swan Critical Mass event occurs and then it’s too late for full lockdown, unlikely as it might seem from our perspective.
    On another note: If JHK lets Vlad spew away his racist bile week after week and Old 8 man spew his BS and his many chinese salesperson alter-egos, I cannot imagine he’d ban us for much more tepid and non-racist legitimate criticism.
    You also said:

    You sure you don’t have your own blog or something, HC. I’d like a way to keep in touch, if we both get banned, here.

    Sorry, no blog, but you make a good point about keeping in touch, and I would like to also. I don’t know how without exposing ourselves to spamming from CFNs Asshole Brigade. Let’s both think on it and see if we can come up with a way of exchange actual information in a way that is not open to the public.

  128. asoka. January 9, 2012 at 6:31 pm #

    Then they chicken-scratch the land until its raw and bleeding. Then they move or starve.
    ———————-
    Wrong. They change and adapt. When it is a question of survival people are highly motivated.
    See Cuba surviving a 50 year hostile USA blockade as an example. Of course, most of the world will not have a hostile blockade in place, so survival should be easier.

  129. wagelaborer January 9, 2012 at 6:39 pm #

    I just got an interesting email. Seems that TPTB have taken note of the widespread disgust with the two corporate parties, so have created a new one.
    Now you can express your disgust with the other two without actually having to do any of the work involved in political action or change, just by doing your usual, pushing a button every four years.
    I have always said that Americans want a third party, but they want one to spring from the forehead of Zeus, fully formed and with ballot accesss. (Which is really, really difficult to get. But this party has already done it in 13 states. Now you’re talking real money!)
    “Supported by major Washington/Wall Street insiders, a group calling itself “Americans Elect” is in the process of getting itself on the ballot in all 50 states. (See NYT article below.) So far, it is on the ballot in 13 states, among them Ohio and Michigan. Two states have qualified it within the last two weeks alone — California and Rhode Island.
    Americans Elect is structuring itself to be broadly democratic. But it is framing itself as centrist. Its stated near-term purpose is to provide a venue for a serious, centrist, “independent” presidential run (Bloomberg/Petraeus, the Times suggests). Its current rules call for a ticket that includes both a Democrat and a Republican.
    This seems to be the fascist, capitalist third-party movement we have been predicting.
    While the the publicly accounted for funding of AE comes from a man who seems to have made his fortune on Wall Street (Peter Ackerman: Drexel Burnham Lambert), other funders, reportedly hedge funds, have been secretive. The elder David Rockefeller seems to be lurking in the wings.
    Besides Ackerman, AE’s board includes Admiral Dennis Blair, who has tight ties to the defense and intelligence communities and served as Obama’s Director of National Intelligence. William Webster, past head of the FBI and CIA and current chairman of the Homeland Security Advisory Council, is a member of AE’s “Leadership” group.
    AE’s “Leadership” includes serious Washington/Wall Street insiders, top frontmen for the One Percent — political pollsters and consultants, think-tank heads, partners in major Washington and Wall Street law firms, past directors of Democratic and Republican national committees, and upper echelon executives of big finance.
    Of these, C. Fred Bergsten perhaps best defines AE. In his 20′s, Bergsten covered international economics for Kissinger at the National Security Council (NSC). During his career he has touched base at the Brookings Institute, the Carnegie Endowment, the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), and the Treasury Department. For the past three decades, he has headed the Peterson Institute for International Economics. He has been an important mechanic in constructing economic globalism.
    Bergsten does not jump unless he is very sure that it is sanctioned by the powers behind the scenes. He is close to David Rockefeller, who has been a board member of his institute since its founding.
    If it is successful, the mid-term effect of the Americans Elect campaign will probably be to split the existing parties, consolidate the “center,” and polarize the electorate. In the broadest sense, the Americans Elect campaign seems to be the One Percent’s response to the broad movement of which Occupy Wall Street is a part — that is: the increasingly class-conscious movement of the 99 Percent.”

  130. Hancock1863 January 9, 2012 at 6:40 pm #

    Sure we probably won’t live to see it. But the likelihood that it will happen, sooner or later, is so high as to be a virtual certainty, now that things have proceeded this far.
    Sure, it’d be more enjoyable in a “poetic justice” sense if we could actually get to witness it, but we can’t always get what we want, so we’ll have to be satisfied with the secure knowledge that the future trend is just about already written, all but the specific details, and can proceed only through a narrowing canal of options built on the actions and inactions of the past.
    And that the outcome becomes more certain with every RW Corporate Socialist act. Weimar 1931 levels of certainty at this point. Still a slim outside chance for a miracle that’s not going to happen, that is pretty much a structural impossibility, given our mass psychological, economic and political states. Obama’s NDAA and laughable signing statement has narrowed our options for any different future significantly.
    He still has a long way to catch up to Bush/Cheney in total responsibility for future friendly fascism and “Love, American style”, but he’s got a nice big share of responsibility now. Plus, he and his congress administered the final blow, and that counts higher, IMHO.

  131. dale January 9, 2012 at 6:45 pm #

    Founders were very afraid of the Banking Conpiracy of Rothschild coming to America
    ————————————
    Care to back that up with a legitimate source or two?…don’t bother with some racist website, that doesn’t qualify on any level.

  132. dale January 9, 2012 at 6:49 pm #

    Hitler was a Vatican/Jesuit tool, as was Stalin. Study their early history!
    ————————————–
    On the sanity scale average posts here have slipped from “slightly weird” to “barking mad” in recent weeks. More amusing than informative….but it’s got that going for it anyway.

  133. wagelaborer January 9, 2012 at 6:52 pm #

    Black churches are joining with the Occupy movement to protest the economic policies of the 1%.
    http://www.occupydream.org/
    January 16th, at your nearest Federal Reserve Bank.

  134. asoka. January 9, 2012 at 6:54 pm #

    If the the establishment choices are Bloomberg/Petraeus versus Obama/Clinton, who do you see winning? I’m thinking people will vote for the ones they already know, instead of risking the ones they don’t know.

  135. Grouchy Old Girl January 9, 2012 at 6:57 pm #

    I hope this comment doesn’t get eaten up in cyberspace last the one I did last week, that’s annoying.
    Just got up to check my calendar and sure enough, there’s a full moon tonight. That must account for all the hyperbole and silliness erupting today in response to JHK’s column. I suppose for the crackpot racists who post here, blogs and other anonymous forums are all that’s left for them to spew their bile without getting punched out.
    Learned something new though, that the Vatican is the real enemy, when all along I’d bought into the idea that it’s Muslims we have to look out for. Oh, and dark skinned people, can’t forget them. Or the Jews, they’re on the enemies list too I think. Hard to keep up, just happy to be a White Anglo Saxon Protestant and always on the Right Side of God. Seems to me if anyone is superior, and smart enough to plot a new world order, it should be us.
    And God knows we’d never let Vlad or this Mrs. Beasley creature into OUR heaven. It takes more than white skin and the right religion and geographic pedigree, you also need manners. They’ll never make the cut.
    Asoka, thanks for the history lesson on what Clinton did to the welfare system. Same thing happened in Canada and they copied each other’s bad ideas back and forth. If Clinton, as a Democratic president, could do that to the poor, it just proves what somebody said earlier, that both parties are really just the same. “For the people” indeed. The corporate ones.
    It will be a hell of a year, that’s for sure. Thanks Jim for giving us so much to think about.

  136. bubbleheadMarc January 9, 2012 at 7:03 pm #

    I knew who Parson Weems was and that he was responsible for the early hagiography pertaining to George Washington. Weems was an Episcopal priest, as indeed George Washington was an Episcopalian layman albeit a fairly lukewarm one who disliked kneeling to receive communion and who was not liked by his rector [pastor] owing to his habit of retiring to the church’s lawn to have a smoke.

  137. metuselah January 9, 2012 at 7:05 pm #

    The truth seems insane to you because you’ve been cocooned by a web of lies. You’ve been so isolated from the truth by government propaganda and lies, that when you actually hear the truth it sounds insane.
    I assure that I’m saying about Hitler and Stalin is true. If you care for the truth, you will go and research this for yourself. One say you will thank me for this.

  138. charliefoxtrot January 9, 2012 at 7:13 pm #

    i sure miss mr tibbet…the gardening season is soon upon us- maybe for the last time, according to natural news.com: house bill S 510 will make it a felony to “smuggle” produce to a farmer s market, or to save seeds…wtftstfizzat, eh?! i m thinking his method of growing food that keeps coming back is looking more attractive, for sure…2%, anyone?

  139. metuselah January 9, 2012 at 7:17 pm #

    This is typical CIA/Vatican/Jihadi propaganda tripe that you hear from the typical propaganda outlets, made to delegitimize Israel. You haven’t clue about Israel or Israelis. You’re just a propagandized CIA/Vatican/Jihadi propaganda parrot.

  140. metuselah January 9, 2012 at 7:20 pm #

    I assure that I’m saying about Hitler and Stalin is true. If you care for the truth, you will go and research this for yourself. One say you will thank me for this.
    ==
    Forgive my atrocious typing. That should read:
    I assure you that what I’m saying about Hitler and Stalin is true. If you care for the truth, you will go and research this for yourself. One day you will thank me for this.

  141. lbendet January 9, 2012 at 7:25 pm #

    Wage:
    “Of these, C. Fred Bergsten perhaps best defines AE. In his 20′s, Bergsten covered international economics for Kissinger at the National Security Council (NSC). During his career he has touched base at the Brookings Institute, the Carnegie Endowment, the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), and the Treasury Department. For the past three decades, he has headed the Peterson Institute for International Economics. He has been an important mechanic in constructing economic globalism.”
    Rockefeller and Kissinger you say? That alone is the Kissinger of death!
    That’s the fix to get the people to believe they have the freedom of voting. Anything to keep the illusion alive.

  142. lbendet January 9, 2012 at 7:31 pm #

    Hancock,
    I too get exhausted when I hear the same old tripe. The inability to agree on basic historical facts. The Nazis were far right wing fascists.
    I figure the revisionists on the right just have to attribute all negative things to the left. That’s the world they live in. It’s 10th grade World History but hey, who cares about basic facts, anyway.

  143. metuselah January 9, 2012 at 7:38 pm #

    Are you saying that the Israeli Defence Force is really the Vatican?
    ==
    No, that’s not what I said at all. The IDF is composed of Israelis. The Litvaks with their Vatican Talmud their and their made up Vatican “Jewish” customs and costumes, are neither Jewish nor do they serve in the IDF. They are a Vatican created and financed foreign transplant. These Litvaks are not Jews! (Naturei Karta, Lubaviches, Bnei-Brit, etc.) They attack the IDF, they attack Israelis, and they attack Arabs. They deliberately go out and provoke conflict. And then on the other side of the ledger you have foreign organizations like beit tzelem and other media, that use these Vatican sponsored foreign transplants to produce their propaganda against Israel and Israelis. The whole production is CIA/Vatican/Jihadi theater from A to Z.

  144. asoka. January 9, 2012 at 7:52 pm #

    The whole production is CIA/Vatican/Jihadi theater from A to Z.
    ===================
    The CIA and Vatican are in with the Jihadis on a theatre production?
    The CIA and Vatican support the Litviks?
    The Litviks and not Jews, but they attack Arabs?
    Something does not compute.

  145. asoka. January 9, 2012 at 7:53 pm #

    CORRECTION
    The Litviks are not Jews, but they attack Arabs?
    Seems you have something in common with the Litviks, metuselah.

  146. Pangolin January 9, 2012 at 7:57 pm #

    What a shit-pile these comments threads have become. Jim needs to turn comments off unless he’s using them to monitor the corn-pone nazis he’s always talking about.
    Yes, I mean you Vlad and of course, “the pissant.” Of course the rest of them are close to useless except the occasional note from Wage or Asoka.
    Clue dipshits; climate change is real, it’s coming FAST, and it’s coming NOW.
    Go check out Jeff Master’s latest blog entry.
    Now look here: http://ncdc.noaa.gov/extremes/records/
    High temperature records have beat low temperature records over the last year at a rate of over 3-1. Over the last 30 days high records have beat low records at a rate of 20-1. This is where some dipshit is going to say “well that’s weather” because the dumbfuck doesn’t understand that weather that changes over an entire continent is climate. Especially when the changes are all headed in the same direction year after year.
    So unless we get really freaking lucky and get normal snows and normal rainfalls and a nice quiet tornado season. Well, fat freaking chance; we’re hosed. All your little corn-pone nazi dreams of killing all the drakes or throwing them off welfare so they have to wipe your ass at fifty cents and hour aren’t happening. It’s survival time and really the best survivors, the people who know how to live on two tamales a day and some field greens are the illegal immigrants.
    As for the elderly? Well, just like in the Japanese tsunami they aren’t getting tossed off the bus. The bus is leaving without them.

  147. Glensufi January 9, 2012 at 8:29 pm #

    Who was it queried “will the world end with a bang or whimper” maybe Faulkner? I think there will be lots of banging between now and “the end” but for sure whimpering when it’s all over.

  148. progress2conserve January 9, 2012 at 8:29 pm #

    “Of course the rest of them are close to useless except the occasional note from *…. Asoka.”
    -pangolin-
    Ah, Pangolin. I was just talking about you last week. You are the best representative of anti-Western hatred that I believe has ever graced these CFN threads.
    You even eclipse asoka.. At least he usually tries to hide his hate and loathing a little bit.
    “It’s survival time and really the best survivors, the people who know how to live on two tamales a day and some field greens are the illegal immigrants.” -pangolin, gloating-
    Looking forward to the rest of us dying on schedule, Pangolin? As long as you can have an ethnically diverse diet, provided by those illegal immigrants of yours, and available to you for take-out on demand?
    You never responded to me about this post of yours, either:
    “As for any black man in an urban area who shoots a cop; well, I can’t blame them. I won’t stand anywhere near them but you can’t blame them for the impulse.” -pangolin, 2/11/11 @ 2:07 a.m.-
    You need to take a long hard look into your own soul, Pangolin. What has American culture done to you that makes you feel this way? How long do you think most of those “black men in an urban area” would survive without electricity, food trucks, and the cops that are sworn to protect those urban areas?
    *originally “Wage and asoka.” I removed Wage from the quote, because I’ve never seen her express the glorious hate, that you and asoka. express, Pangolin.
    apologies in advance, if necessary, Wage

  149. wagelaborer January 9, 2012 at 8:40 pm #

    How NAFTA forced Mexicans off their land and into the USA.
    http://www.thenation.com/article/165438/how-us-policies-fueled-mexicos-great-migration
    And I’m still supposed to think that it’s a good thing when the Democrat wing of the corporate party beats the Republican wing.

  150. ozone January 9, 2012 at 8:53 pm #

    “Yep – It’s easy to see the future. It’s harder to understand why the US won’t perform the simple, legal expedient of reducing immigration inflows – legally, just by changing numbers on pieces of Federal Level paperwork.” -P2C
    Legislation to change the numbers and qualifications of immigrants would change tomorrow if it were in the interest of those who OWN the “Federal Level” of everything.
    It isn’t, so no change will be forthcoming. False hope is a waste of energy. I can understand your passion on this point, but I don’t see it as ultimately fruitful. Other “factors” of the Great Crumbling will intervene, IMHO.

  151. wagelaborer January 9, 2012 at 8:57 pm #

    No, I don’t hate “western” culture, Prog.
    If by western culture you mean tolerance, freedom and friendliness.
    But the policies of the 1% which beat down the rest of us, the other peoples of the world, the forests, animals, oceans and topsoil of our planet?
    Yep. Hate them.

  152. jammer January 9, 2012 at 8:59 pm #

    Wagelaboror said, “It’s just an impudent reversal of the truth to call the Nazis left wing, and yet, as Hitler pointed out, if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it”.
    I believe it was Joseph Goebbels who is credited with that strategy.

  153. Jim/PA January 9, 2012 at 8:59 pm #

    I wouldn’t group Ron Paul in with the other presidential contenders.

  154. ozone January 9, 2012 at 9:00 pm #

    “It’s just an impudent reversal of the truth to call the Nazis left wing, and yet, as Hitler pointed out, if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it.” -Wage
    Yep, also know as, “brazening it out”.
    A subset of Karl Rove’s mostest fa-vo-rite-est ploy:
    Accuse others of doing/plotting/thinking the heinous and venal things that you, yourself are ALREADY actively engaged in! (Not brilliant in any sense, but it works, as we have seen.)

  155. ozone January 9, 2012 at 9:08 pm #

    A. E., eh, Wage?
    “Assholes Exclusively” would seem to fit their abbreviation.
    All the AE’s “good people” mentioned (and many not, if we can find ‘em) should be put on a list for future reference. Mademoiselle Guillotine will find them delicious.

  156. jerry January 9, 2012 at 9:14 pm #

    The rule of law is gone. Just look at those insane justices on the Supreme Court.
    In physics after chaos comes order. This is what is required in this nation.
    The latest statistic I heard today is that Georgia has the fattest children. No doubt, they get their cheap Chez Curls at Walmart, the company that loves to shut down American jobs. It is clear, that we have a devolving society in the US. We have very dumb people. Many pretend to be intelligent. For example, those average American working stiffs who vote against their own best interests and favor the party of the rich, and outsourcing, cannot make up their minds which moron to choose to vote for. They have no idea which moron is their best pick. They go to the last minute undecided. They continuously say that they have to meet the moron first before they decide. Are they illiterate? Can’t they read just how regressive these GOPie morons actually are? They have to look at their sweater vest colors in order to decide?
    I heard Professor Simon Johnson say that the Eurozone will likely see a nation-fail later on this year, before the election. The Eurozone is imploding. It resembles a balloon slowly getting way too much air.
    The southern states really have absolutely no idea just hard austerity is going to dope-slam their fat, dumb faces. Bobbie Jingle Jangle Jindal is going to get steamrollered by the people of his state.
    What we have in the White House is a complete sellout fraud, and those running against him are GOPie perverted psychopaths. They are all way too big for their shoes.
    http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

  157. ozone January 9, 2012 at 9:17 pm #

    “Still a slim outside chance for a miracle that’s not going to happen, that is pretty much a structural impossibility, given our mass psychological, economic and political states. Obama’s NDAA and laughable signing statement has narrowed our options for any different future significantly.” -HC1863
    The only way “out” is “through”, I’d guess. Whether we see the other side might simply be a matter of luck and geographic happenstance.
    That signing of ‘Murkin’s death and imprisonment warrants over the “joyous holidays” was a pretty cutesy move, wasn’t it? (Absolutely designed.) “Nothing to see here; move along; you won’t be affected; remain calm; return to your homes…”

  158. ozone January 9, 2012 at 9:18 pm #

    “…Doodles, teevee, and psychotropic drugs will be provided…”

  159. jerry January 9, 2012 at 9:24 pm #

    Anyone who believes that Ron Paul should not be included in the condemnation of the GOPies, has been drinking way too much Kool-Aid. Ron Paul happens to be the most rightwing GOPie in government today. He is against the Fed but fails to tell his fans that even before the establishment of the Fed the financial robber-barons were very powerful. Just as powerful as they are today. He has no plan to repair the monetary problems.
    He believes in doing away with most, if not all, of the government agencies. He wants to give the richest among us more free rein, less regulation (BP, Shale drillers, corporate raiders, financial gamblers, etc.), fewer taxes, etc.
    Under Paul, the working stiffs would ultimately pay the most, suffer the most, and lose the most.
    He would be very happy to drill baby drill pretending that we could be energy independent.
    The guy is nothing but a bobblehead flapping is mouth.

  160. ozone January 9, 2012 at 9:25 pm #

    …And yes, Jammer, Joseph Goebbels (a fine person of unimpeachable moral rectitude). ;o)
    Thanks.

  161. jeff z January 9, 2012 at 9:46 pm #

    I wish I didn’t have to work a day job. Then I could post a link to pimp my blog at 9:30 AM and watch the hits roll in.
    Instead, I’m down here with the folks who still believe in the political process jousting with the corn-pone nazis.
    But I’ll pimp the link anyway since Mr. Kunstler is so generous about it.
    I’m reviewing my 2011 garden seeds’ performance this week- selecting out the varieties that survive the tough northern summers. The evidence of climate change is all over the place this year in Minnesota, so it’s time to stock up on tough seeds.
    No- actually stocking up won’t do you any good. Time to really learn how to grow stuff and save the seed. Unless you are really really really sure the collapse will be fast and total, it’s time to learn how to garden. Can’t eat gold.
    http://eighthacrefarm.blogspot.com/2011/12/seed-reviews-2011s-results-2012s-hopes.html

  162. Pangolin January 9, 2012 at 10:12 pm #

    The nice thing about trolls is that they always come when you ring their bell. The idiot called progress2conserve being a case in point.
    Wow, he jumped right up to defend “American culture;” even pulling out an 8 month quote where I sympathized with the victims of the slave-owning culture and the resulting bigotry and oppression. I don’t think I’ve ever quoted anybody on a blog comment that old.
    I think those black men in urban areas would survive just as long as clueless whites in the suburbs would. Probably longer. More than a few of them live cheek-to-jowl with asian and mexican immigrants. How about the white folks in the suburbs who live on microwave seal-a-meals and drive-thru take out. I know people who can’t drink coffee without starting their car.
    When you find some “American Culture” please tell us. Little Debbie snack cakes, NASCAR and Red Lobster don’t count.

  163. greyghost05 January 9, 2012 at 10:13 pm #

    Based on your geopolitical break down it looks like you’ve maybe played or at least looked at the video game “Shattered Union”. It lays out pretty much what you have. I will be living within the Great Plains Confederation. Based on previous Military Base Realignments I would say the Republic of Texas came out on top of this one. It will be interesting to see if the European Union will be able to send Peace Keepers to restore order in the NYC to DC corridor.
    Interesting game and future scenario. Lets just hope it never comes to that. WMBH / Amish living will be a drastic enough change. Till people learn to flourish again.
    Stay Frosty & Keep yer powder dry !

  164. progress2conserve January 9, 2012 at 10:31 pm #

    Thar be self-hatred mateys!
    “I sympathized with the victims of the slave-owning culture and the resulting bigotry and oppression. I don’t think I’ve ever quoted anybody on a blog comment that old.” -pangolin-
    And I’ve never seen a rich white boy, which you obviously are Pangolin, say that it is OK for black men to kill urban cops, because these urban blacks great-great-great granddaddy’s were slaves.
    So – should your oppressed urban black men kill ALL the cops, or just the white ones?
    And why do you even care, as long as you keep your belly full of ethnic food?

  165. Nathan January 9, 2012 at 10:37 pm #

    Hi all,
    An excellent article explaining why the old “Left and Right” definitions of the democratic political spectrum is simply no longer relevant:
    http://www.holmgren.com.au/DLFiles/PDFs/Money_vs_Fossil_Energy.pdf

  166. greyghost05 January 9, 2012 at 10:38 pm #

    Wage, you’ve hit it on the head. Nice work.

  167. kulturcritic* January 9, 2012 at 10:48 pm #

    As our options dwindle, James, we need to find a way through the impasse. BEST FROM KULTURCRITIC
    http://kulturcritic.wordpress.com/posts/deep-temporality-and-the-challenge-of-community/

  168. Anthony Schiano January 9, 2012 at 10:49 pm #

    “Huntsman seems like a …” SEEMS is your operative word here — he’s Obama’s former ambassador to China. And his dad is Glenn Beck’s idol/role-model/mentor — There is no left and right political “spectrum,” there is a political circle, and communism and corporatism/fascism bump asses at 360 degrees. Left/right is a puppet show to keep you from realizing that the real divide is them and us. Ignore it, deny it, decry it, and do everything you can do to break its functional grip. Tune out commentators who refuse to discuss issues and instead treat coverage of national elections like they are a football game, write in non- R or D candidates or vote for a third party, enroll in either R or D if you’re not enrolled and “waste” a primary vote by tanking a front-runner with your vote; anything, anything, anything you can think of to take a chip off the status quo of our political workings — do it! It’s a significant part of what got us into this mess in the first place. (Yes, it takes flawed education, corruption, etc. whatever the hell it is that our politics has devolved into, its a big contributor too.)
    cheers,
    A.S.
    http://www.MalthusUniversity.com

  169. kulturcritic* January 9, 2012 at 10:49 pm #

    SPEAKING OF THE RIPE MOMENT – TIME IS OUR PROBLEM, JAMES
    http://kulturcritic.wordpress.com/posts/deep-temporality-and-the-challenge-of-community/
    KULTURCRITIC

  170. IxNoMor January 9, 2012 at 11:04 pm #

    “without the inherited bullshit inherent”
    As in, Gordon? I believe I poasted here about you and your daughter OWSing in Canada? Or maybe it was the following youtube video:

    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    Heh, not too damn shabby. Seems the polar ice cap melt in 2011 held the maximal global temps at bay…

  171. bearfoot January 9, 2012 at 11:05 pm #

    neon vincent, 8man,ibendet,rmtn.p,antisoak, kurt cagle. mrs. beasley hancock1863, wagelaborer—.GET YOUR OWN BLEEPING BLOG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  172. kulturcritic* January 9, 2012 at 11:09 pm #

    History? The Rule of Law? The incessant flow of unidirectional time, forcing belief in progress and a better life…. This is the core of our problem, James. KULTURCRITIC
    http://kulturcritic.wordpress.com/posts/deep-temporality-and-the-challenge-of-community/

  173. Pangolin January 9, 2012 at 11:31 pm #

    bearfoot_ As we all know blog comment hijacking is the result of the well known phenomena known as…..”most of us aren’t very good writers.”
    Anybody want to comment on Jim’s last paragraph?
    “I discern the distant sound of rebellion, a spirit that won’t be appeased by bytes of Disney-babble from the pandering snouts of Romney, Santorum, Gingrich, Paul or Obama. They are interested only in keeping a set of suicidal rackets going. All the yammer about “freedom” and “liberty” is hollow when the rule of law is AWOL. This ripe time is the natural moment for a true opposition to rise. A few months from now neither major party will have a credible candidate or a plausible platform of ideas. This will be painfully obvious. What angels and demons will rush into that awful vacuum?”
    Personally I think we’re going to hold our noses and vote for Obama again because the other options are batshit crazy republicans or political unknowns.
    Al Franken for president anybody?

  174. Buck Stud January 9, 2012 at 11:32 pm #

    Beantown Bill,
    Thanks for your response yesterday, and I agree with the bulk of your comment, more or less. I also did not want to interject race into this thread but I also felt it would be impolite not reply to your thoughtful post. So here is one aspect of my response. I was in North Denver a few years ago which is a section of town close to the teeming downtown area that Kulture Critic wrote about last week. Anyway, this is a vibrant, thriving community that is populated by upscale professionals. Property values are up, and coffee shops, wine stores and Pilates studios are sprinkled about a neighborhood that was once predominantly Latino and lower/middle class white. These groups have been pushed to the outskirts of this neighborhood but the student age populace still attend the neighborhood schools. Paradoxically, the public schools within this very vibrant community are a blight: test scores are way down as are the graduation rates. I asked a shop owner why the schools were so bad in this neighborhood and he told me that all the upscale white couples drive their kids to schools outside the neighborhood, or to private schools. So even though revamped inner-city neighborhoods are coveted by young professionals, the public schools within these neighborhoods are shunned by the very people professing to champion the city life style. If you’re interested, do a search on the North Denver Highlands and Denver North High School.

  175. Vlad Krandz January 9, 2012 at 11:38 pm #

    Hamilton wanted America to create a Central Bank just like the Bank of England – which had already been infiltrated by one of Rothschild’s sons. Luckily Jefferson and Adams saw the danger. These are well known facts.

  176. Buck Stud January 9, 2012 at 11:39 pm #

    Wage,
    I’m not doubting what you wrote,after all, you’re in the health-care biz but could you provide a scenario for how ” Obama’s health insurance company enrichment bill will kill off the elderly without actually shipping them to concentration camps”?

  177. Vlad Krandz January 9, 2012 at 11:43 pm #

    Remember what Bill said to Juletta after she related being assaulted by Blacks? He didn’t offer any sympathy, but after saying that he understood her feelings, warned her to watch her racism. What a guy.
    Now imagine his reaction if a Jewish Woman had been attacked. Do you really believe it would be the same?

  178. IxNoMor January 9, 2012 at 11:44 pm #

    “Quite a decrease from 12.3 million to 4.4 million.”
    That’s how they do it – eliminate a former program, and institute a “new/better” one, which operates like privatized insurance companies (denying all claims rigorously).
    Oh, and I never made any short term predictions. I think I made two different ones, fairly long-term. So quit linking your weekly monday-morning end-of-the-world sarcasm to me. Or, debunk my two predictions!!! (Hint: one was global temperature as the solar irradiance peaks, but I forget the other one [I know, so sad, too bad])…

  179. Shakazulu January 9, 2012 at 11:45 pm #

    “What of the headless body? You guessed it – SOYLENT GREEN”
    I wonder if Soylent Green tastes like Cheese Doodles?

  180. IxNoMor January 9, 2012 at 11:45 pm #

    My bad! Vigorously (not rigorously)…

  181. IxNoMor January 9, 2012 at 11:48 pm #

    “http://kulturcritic.wordpress.com/posts/deep-temporality-and-the-challenge-of-community/”
    Seriously, how many times are you going to poast that drivel today? That’s 4+, correct? Now I’m feeling sorry for Gordon’s daughter, if she actually reads this tripe!!!

  182. Vlad Krandz January 9, 2012 at 11:48 pm #

    Any Black who would go gunning for White Cops would also rob, rape, or shoot non cop Whites. And once the cops are gone they will. Pango is out to lunch.

  183. Pangolin January 9, 2012 at 11:51 pm #

    From the 2011 “Oh Shit” file looking for a repeat in 2012 this hit…..
    “India Reports Completely Drug-Resistant TB”
    “Over the past 48 hours, news has broken in India of the existence of at least 12 patients infected with tuberculosis that has become resistant to all the drugs used against the disease. Physicians in Mumbai are calling the strain TDR, for Totally Drug-Resistant. In other words, it is untreatable as far as they know.”
    http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/01/invincible-tb-india/?utm_source=googleplus&utm_medium=socialmedia&utm_campaign=googleplusclickthru

  184. Vlad Krandz January 9, 2012 at 11:58 pm #

    What a fascinating reality tunnel you exist in – assuming it’s not an act that is. So how does the Jewish Masonry fit in – Brai Brith, the Sons of the Covenant? Are they truly the descendants of Sabbathi Zvi? Apparently they got the rite from Scottish Masonry, perhaps even from Pike himself.

  185. BeantownBill January 9, 2012 at 11:59 pm #

    Gee, I always thought that when you say “I understand your feelings” you are validating that person. And since Juletta was obviously attacked and upset by it, validating her feelings automatically expresses sympathy. You don’t have to use the words “I’m sorry” to express sympathy. Someone ought to teach you the art of communication, Vlad.
    I better not disagree with you in the future because you have superpowers. You could foresee the future and know how differently I’d react if a Jewish woman was attacked. Of course, you’d be wrong, as you usually (always?) are.

  186. asoka. January 9, 2012 at 11:59 pm #

    I was reading some rubayi poetry of Khwaja Mir Dard (rubayi originated in 10th century Iran) when the CFN argument about American culture erupted today.
    What kind of poetry was America producing in the 10th century when Iran was producing rubayi? OK, unfair question since USA did not exist.
    So, what was happening culturally in Europe when the Persians (Iranians) were creating beautiful lyrical love poetry, the rubayi and ghazals?
    Oh, right Europe was in the Dark Ages; rude and crude people cloaked in intellectual darkness. The ghazal was not introduced to European poetry until the early 19th century (by German writers).
    The Persians had about a 900 year advantage over the ignorant white barbarian Europeans, the same ignorant white barbarians (criminals and religious fanatics) who fled Europe and founded the USA.
    In its 250 years the USA has still not produced poetry of the quality of the Persian rubayi and ghazals, in my opinion. Maybe next century?

  187. jdfarmer January 10, 2012 at 12:03 am #

    Good Job. We got all the way to 11:19 am Monday before the race issue came up.

  188. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 12:08 am #

    You need to study some Fascist Theory. Fascism is the Radical Center, the Third Position (think of the high angle of an equilateral triangle). By no means is Fascism just in the middle, a little bit of this and a little bit of that. And to say that is just conservatism is crazy. I mean obviously Capitalism is insufficient and equally obviously Communism is a sham, and a vicious one at that. Fascism rejects both completely in terms of their ideology or approach to life – thus the vertical height. The useful aspects of both it retains – thus its place equal distance from the other angles.
    Hitler tried to join Unions but they insisted that he slander Germany which he refused to do. But he made clear that he despised the brutality of the Industrialists and Business Magnates.

  189. Pangolin January 10, 2012 at 12:08 am #

    Shocking as this may be Vlad “black” people are pretty much the same as “white” people particularly since they share all the same genes except the ones for skin color. That means that like white people in Croatia or tan people in Iraq they can make the distinction between population-oppressing paramilitaries and other citizens.
    They’ve even been known to recognize that different policemen are “individuals” and deserve to be treated differently based upon their history of public contact.
    Of course, most black men who go gunning for a police officers are walking the same path as most white men gunning for police officers; committing suicide. Intentionally. Sure they could check out some other way but…… some policeman had to be an asshole.

  190. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 12:11 am #

    Whitman and Dickinson are spiritually sublime. And the American Transcendentalists were students of the Persian Masters and the Hindoo Classics. Emerson and Thoreau are admired by many in the East – Thoreau even influencing Gandhi.

  191. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 12:14 am #

    Blacks are different in terms of brain size and shape and also hormone levels. They have much higher Testosterone which leads to higher impulsivity, aggression, and violent crime.
    You have to study, not just prate PC slogos.

  192. IxNoMor January 10, 2012 at 12:18 am #

    Just recently watched “Super Size Me” and “The Greatest Movie Ever Sold.” Pretty much sums up the stupidity of the lard-ass oaf majority here in the USSA (AmeriKKKa). I was shocked that the sponsors of TGMES were actually decent products, and not the same old, tired out, GMO hydrogenated oil and GMO (high fructose) corn syrup subsidized oligarchs…
    Yum Yum!!! 5 minutes of showtime, interrupted by 5 minutes of flashy subliminals, hour upon the hour!!! Wonder why all the kids are ADHD, and diabetic?!…

  193. Buck Stud January 10, 2012 at 12:19 am #

    Asoka,
    Nice post about Persian/Iranian culture, but within “the rude and crude people cloaked in intellectual darkness” some real stunning masterpieces were being fabricated:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tara_Brooch

  194. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 12:20 am #

    Sure Bill. I mean what a time to warn someone about racism. Just like Obama was horrified when his Aunt was frightened by some Black low life who had been harrassing her. He cared not a fig for her safety or feelings, only the feelings of the Black hustler.
    I don’t believe you. You have never expressed any sympathy for Whites nor did you this time. Only Non Whites and Jews. Hey alot of Whites on this site will salute you for that so why pretend?

  195. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 12:23 am #

    I agree about Whitman. But Dickinson? She has been called the poet of dread. Hardly transcendental. She appears to search for the universal truths, but her poetic technique is to make the abstract concrete, very shallow compared to the Persian/Iranian masters.
    What you have in America is ignorant white barbarism, of the type that sings in public, to the tune of the Beach Boys, the goal being to promote mass murder of civilians in a superior culture.

  196. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 12:36 am #

    Buck Stud, thank you. The European “culture” of which you speak, in the form of “masterpieces” is not popular culture. Like the Celtic gold work you refer to, European art was made for wealthy patrons, and the artists were mostly interested in increasing their status in the eyes of the wealthy. I’d call it a cut-throat business, not artistic culture. Europe did not experience a popular flowering of creative expression like happened in Iran when Europe was in its Dark Ages.

  197. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 12:40 am #

    The original Persians were White Men you know. The last Zoroastrians fled to India to escape Islamic terror. But it is an interesting place – with remanants of the old culture and genome still appearing here and there. And some of the best of Islamic Culture flourished there once.

  198. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 12:44 am #

    Sounds like you have’t read here – just went to Wikipedia or something. Yes, most of poetry is using imagery to embody abstractions. The dark tresses of a woman are a symbol of God or “The Beloved” in Islamic Poetry. Other motifs, the Tavern of Ruin, Wine, the Cup Bearer etc. Try to think before you post.

  199. Buck Stud January 10, 2012 at 12:54 am #

    Asoka,
    I am not disputing the beauty of Persian culture, but to describe a piece such as the Tara Brooch as made by the hands cut-throat businessmen is just plain wrong. There is only one thing beyond extraordinary skill which could craft such a piece: Love. And what motivated the Irish scribes to preserve the treasures of antiquity, if not Love? Thomas Cahill’s “How The Irish Saved Civilization” goes into some depth on the subject, although the title is way too Eurocentric.
    But back to Persian culture: The music – Oh My God – I do believe I lived a past life in that land.

  200. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 12:54 am #

    Anyone who hates the Beach Boys isn’t an American (of the United States). And you think singing their songs in public is a means towards the end of destroying Iran? You’re starting to Mika.

  201. BeantownBill January 10, 2012 at 12:57 am #

    I care not if you don’t believe me. As far as whites are concerned, most Jews are white and other Semites are Caucasians, too. Since you think I totally favor Jews, I can’t be anti-white. But it’s not important to me what you think.
    I, on the other hand, think you mix up race with color. You dislike the non-white colors, even if the non-white is Caucasoid. You disparage brown peoples like Mexicans, when many Mexicans are Caucasians or a mixture of Caucasian and attenuated Mongoloid. Yes, Mexicans can also be black and mixed-black, but you lump all Mexicans and other Hispanics together.
    I don’t know why I even replied to your silly post.

  202. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 12:58 am #

    No, Vlad, the civilizations (which you deny Black people ever created) of Egypt and Persia were civilizations of Blacks. The Code of Manu of India says that the Persians were originally one of the divisions of the Black race.
    The Iranian legends say that the whole region of ancient Persia to India was inhabited by a race of Black men with short wooly hair. Black men. Africa is the common mother.
    Cushite civilization is the motherland of humanity. Cushite blood courses through ancient Aryan civilizations. Sadly there was a degeneration over time and many Black characteristics were lost in Aryan and Persian civilizations. But the essence, Black nobility, is the heritage that gave birth to the civilizations you claim were white.

  203. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 1:01 am #

    Don’t forget the Treasures of Sutton Hoo: the Vikings were also gifted craftsmen as well as Barbarians Conquerors. Also traders, farmers, etc. Although ultimately defeated, the Vikings created the first real Cities in Ireland from trading posts.
    The Celts lived a decentralized lifestyle – the kind we need now. The down sides could be partially overcome by communication technology. Also no one ever said that we need to recreate the isolated farm houses of the past. Catholic Farmers lived in villages and walked out to their fields everyday.

  204. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 1:03 am #

    No, Vlad, witness ignorant white barbarism for yourself:






    Laughing and joking about mass slaughter of human beings, while referencing the Beach Boys.

  205. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 1:09 am #

    Well sure Jews are mostly White. But they don’t idenfify with us at all. If you want to insult a Jew call him White. But you know all this very well. Jews are invisible when they want to be but no one can blow their own horn like them. Always trying to take credit and avoid blame. The two go together. You can’t have one without the other. The attempt to do so is one of the roots of Jewish Neurosis. In other words, fine if you want to be proud of Jewish Achievment, but if so, you must also be ashamed of the degredation of Hollywood. A stick has two ends. But you’d rather project the bad onto Whites – as scapegoats.
    Why did you write to me? We all need opponents to bring out the best in us. Perhaps you know this at some level…

  206. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 1:09 am #

    buck stud, my point was the Tara Brooch was commissioned. It was a business deal and is not representative of popular culture of 700 CE Ireland.

  207. anti soak January 10, 2012 at 1:10 am #

    ‘Clue dipshits; climate change is real, it’s coming FAST, and it’s coming NOW’
    And do you have any advice????????????????????
    ‘climate change is real’…Beyond the CC thats been happening for the last 5 billion years?
    ‘Warming up to the ice age’ ??? [John Hiatt]

  208. Buck Stud January 10, 2012 at 1:13 am #

    I’ll throw this out there too, in case anyone cares to commet. Constantine Nigra (quoted by Hyde) Says:
    ” The idea that rhyme originated among the Arabs must be absolutely rejected as fabulous…Rhyme, too, could not in any possible way, have evolved itself from the natural progress of the Latin language. Among the Latins, neither the thing nor the name existed. The first certain examples of rhyme, then, are found on Celtic soil and among Celtic nations…we conclude that final assonance or rhyme can have been derived only from laws of Celtic phonology.”
    http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/seumas-macmanus/the-story-of-the-irish-race-a-popular-history-of-ireland-mca/page-19-the-story-of-the-irish-race-a-popular-history-of-ireland-mca.shtml

  209. ubs January 10, 2012 at 1:18 am #

    On the positive side, we may soon get a functioning passenger rail system. The experience might be more Dr. Zivago than Eurorail, and one-way tickets only with rally strange looking train stations.

  210. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 1:30 am #

    Woo hoo! Rhyme!
    While Europe was working on getting words to rhyme, the Persians were writing exquisite transcendental poetry with emphasis on lyric quality, mellifluous meters, and tenderness of feeling. All using relative simple language, making it accessible to all.
    Of course, 900 years later Ireland got around to using rhyme to develop drinking toasts and nonsense poetry in the form of limericks with lewd, crude, rude, and sexually bawdy themes. Transcendence? Nah, just more barbarism embodied in poetry.

  211. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 1:30 am #

    Yes McCain sucks. Why put that on the Beach Boys or all Whites? Europe is White or at least it used to be, and despise that aspect of American Culture. So do I. Iran is Shia and they are much more peaceful than the Wahabbis. They have a right to nuclear power or even a weapon or two. Israel would annihalate them if they lobbed a bomb at them. They know that.
    Unnfortuanately, they do support some powerful Islamic groups like Hezbollah. They see Zionism as on the offensive and they feel they have to fight back and not just wait to be picked off. I sympathize with them, but I don’t think it’s going to end well for them. The Republicans and the Zionists have it in for them and they have it in for the Zionists. Luckily for Israel, Iran and Saudi Arabia hate each other. If they ever united, Israel might be in real trouble.

  212. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 1:40 am #

    Fascinating, but probably not true. It probably sprang up in different places at different times. It might be true in modern European History though.
    My brother and I were talking about how many lost cities have been found off the coast of Cuba, Bimini (Bahamas), Japan, India. He pointed out that the coastlines have changed since the ice age ended – what was once land is now underwater. Human history is largely a fairy tale past five thousand years or so – and largely distorted since then. There may well have been Civilization for the last 100,000 years.

  213. Bustin J January 10, 2012 at 1:40 am #

    gg05 said “WMBH / Amish living will be a drastic enough change. Till people learn to flourish again.”
    I’m reading a book about the Amish. Flourishing isn’t in their vocabulary. And I guess it won’t be in any insular, geneologically obsessed microsociety that believes in exile or servitude.
    The Amish are living fossils. Amazing.
    By the way, any time anyone wants to they can emulate the best parts of their culture.
    I, for one eschew showering and sponge bathe. Its superior to showering, soaping up and shampooing. But I digress. You didn’t come hear to read anything new.
    No people who are worth giving a shit about would let people destroy and pollute their groundwater. I include the entire state of Pennsylvania in that metric.
    The Ohio Amish are about out of cousins to inbreed with and the Kingdom of Lichtenstein doesn’t export sectarian exiles.
    Plus the Amish are surrounded by- America. It doesn’t look good. I’ll bet even odds on the Bolivian colonies. Recently a bunch of town fathers were using an agricultural pesticide to create a sort of house-scale date rape drug.
    Local authorities in possession of forensics and rape kits figured out a multi-generational gang of chemical rapists. And this, from a culture which has never watched Wife Swap. How??

  214. Buck Stud January 10, 2012 at 1:43 am #

    Somehow, I doubt you read much of the link. At any rate, it’s sort of silly, arguing about what Father Culture has the biggest dick. I like it all, and if something about Persian culture tickles my fancy, I see no point in diminishing another. Moreover, no matter if Persian or Irish culture, it cannot be argued that civilization is always marching forward to more advanced levels. Some things when lost, are gone for good, even if our modern smugness believes that arcane treasures or the spirit of an epoch can be retrieved by a Google search.

  215. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 1:45 am #

    Bravo to Mr Kunstler for condemning NDAA. And not a word from the Mainsteam Media nor the loyal oppostion, Fox.
    Here’s a condemnation from a classical perspective: http://www.nowpublic.com/world/fein-obama-god

  216. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 2:02 am #

    Where do you stand on the New World Order’s attempt to coerce Uganda into accepting Homosexuality – which is against both Traditional and Christian Ugandan Culture?

  217. old69 January 10, 2012 at 2:48 am #

    FROM:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=177835
    Existentialism ?
    I know, I understand, it would be like “giving up”, like “declaring defeat”, a scott free pure FREE RIDE, HANDOUT, a FREE LUNCH just doesn’t click with our stone age mental computer program. But most of all, most people would think “Now What ?”, they wouldn’t have “Anything to Do” (as if they are actually doing much anyways in most jobs today), they have been programmed (since the stone ages, but actually during the stone ages they just did “what was necessary”, much smarter than us forcing ourselves to do a lot of make believe effort that leads to nothing, go figure) to always “Do Something”, to always have a “Goal” a “Target”, etc. Well, guess what ? The era of work labor, targets and goals are over forever, it will never come back again, it is no longer in the cards, just suck it up and get used to it, this is the “New Normal”. The Technological Economy eliminates way more (real) jobs than it creates, just say it, admit it, don’t hide the facts anymore.
    We should really “Give Up”, that is exactly what we would should do, “Declare Defeat”, that is the right thing to do, don’t worry, it’s ok, there is nothing wrong with that, you will be ok, it is not a sin, god won’t punish you. And in fact the best thing to do is to park thousands of trillions of new people that will be born (because we will really need them all to build our thousands of trillions of skyscrapers, rockets and cadillacs) in front of TVs and let them watch TV for 24 hours a day for trillions of years. That is perfection achieved, an automatic life, all problems solved, you have achieved all, you can’t get much better, it can never get much better than this. Of course all the environmentalist and greenies and alternative lifestyle thugs are against TV, they are still fighting that same battle since the 1950s, go figure, what c*cks! But TV is the solution not the problem.
    You better get used to being bored, to not having anything to do anymore, to not having any goals anymore, to not achieving your “career”, to not being equal to all the other turds anymore, to not thinking that you are a special little turd who “worked hard” to have more than Mrs Jones next door, who is a layabout, welfare queen, etc.
    And yet, when real projects and real goals, real targets and real large scale efforts are proposed, in short REAL WORK FOR REAL ACHIEVEMENTS, everyone runs away, everyone criticizes them, everyone calls them socialism and bad and killing nature and Resources are Running Out and we can’t do them, the crappy democratic process of everyone against everyone would block all the projects (that is why we would need an Iron Fist Communist Dictatorship) etc. But at the same time, they all chant and think that they will be “their own little bosses”, they will work hard “to achieve their own little puny goals” against others, to compare themselves against others instead of taking on the real big dog which is nature and real large scale projects that really mean something and really are achieving.
    Obama should declare:
    “FROM NOW ON, WE WILL GIVE OUT FREE LUNCHES, FREE RIDES TO ALL, SCOTT FREE HANDOUTS, WE WILL GIVE OUT FREE SALARIES OF 800 DOLLARS A MONTH TO ALL, AND A CHEAP RENT OF 200 DOLLARS A MONTH FOR ALL, AND ALSO START HUGE LARGE SCALE PUBLIC PRIVATE PROJECTS LIKE HIGH SPEED TRAINS ALL ACROSS THE USA, ROCKETS TO MARS AND VENUS, A MAN ON MARS AND VENUS BY THE YEAR 2020, A COMPLETE TOTAL PUBLIC MASS TRANSPORTATION OF BUS SYSTEMS ALL ACROSS THE USA SINCE OUR ECONOMIC SYSTEM NOW HAS SUCH HUGE EXCESS CAPACITY THAT IT CAN EASILY ACHIEVE ALL OF THIS. THE FED WILL JUST PRINT ALL THE CASH WE NEED FOR THIS INSTEAD OF JUST HANDING IT OVER TO THE BANKS (AKA THE SAME OLD RICH INDIRECTLY OVER AND OVER AGAIN) “
    In fact, Excess Capacity is really what this Technological Economy is all about: we have such huge economies of scale, so many millions of people idle worldwide, and so much free money that we could start hundreds of huge large scale projects and at the same time give out scott free handouts to hundreds of millions without any problem at all. Instead all of the excess capacity that can express itself (since the economic system must repress as much excess capacity from expressing itself as possible by keeping hundreds of millions of potential workers (so many young kids all across the planet) idle or else we would be saturated with goods and cash in banks, go figure) is simply converted into trillions of dollars that the same old few thousands of rich families worldwide hog up, not even wanting all that cash but simply because the system automatically is set up to make that excess capacity expressed in cash accumulate in the hands of the top 1 %.
    And ironically, it is actually very hard for them to spend so much cash, trillions upon trillions of dollars: just think, how on earth can you really spend all that cash ? it is really insane! Once those families buy their new house and their Cadillac, well now what ? what else can they possibly spend it on ? another house and an Oldsmobile ninety eight, but then there is still way too much cash to know what to do with, so they just play global poker games with finance, stock markets, banks, speculation and all, and call it “Advanced Services”, while any real large scale projects are considered bad, socialism and the welfare state.
    There won’t be any more real jobs in the future, unless you simply invent them: we could write down all the Internet web pages with paper and pencil (or in Europe on Paper and Pen), write all the contents of Computers on paper, millions of people writing things on paper, that would create a lot of work.
    Of course, it is all wrong, I am a clown, I admit it: if even one millimeter of what I said would be applied it would all go haywire, the mental computer programs would crash in a jiffy, how I love to be wrong, to see all my large scale theoretical structures collapse in a jiffy, how it would reveal how wrong I was on everything by just trying to apply one bit, what a failure…
    QUO VADIS, BABY ?
    TOBOR AN 8 MAN

  218. Pangolin January 10, 2012 at 2:58 am #

    Vlad Krandz has got to be a bitter little fucktard if his only pride in life is the color of his skin. Why we can’t ship shitheads like that to Idaho and put a wall around the whole place is mystery to me.
    If Obama was actually some kind of Kenyan-anti-colonial manchurian candidate the first thing he’d do is toss all the white-supremest asshats into the back of a cattle truck and ship them to Gitmo. A few weeks of sensory deprivation and they’d admit to anything they were told to.
    None of this namby-pamby Bush Administration waterboarding either. The full stuffed into a soundproof box in a dark-temperature controlled room brainwash. Several kidnappers have done this to victims and they turn into virtual zombie-slaves that can only recover after months of deprogramming.
    Then off to the sugar fields of Florida to enjoy the benefits of a slave’s life that they so often tout. Sunshine, exercise and all the sugar cane your rotting teeth can chew.
    Well, shit in one hand and wish in the other……

  219. Pangolin January 10, 2012 at 3:07 am #

    Quit making sense; it’s way out of line with the tone of this comment thread. There’s an organization called WWOOF, World Wide Opportunity on Organic Farms. People PAY for the privilege of traveling to farms and working as a dirt farmer for free.
    People PAY for the privilege of helping build Cob of Straw Bale houses. Not just free labor; people pay you to allow them to help. There are millionaires milking goats twice a day and pruning grapes; peasant work.
    And these crazy bastards think that people don’t want to work. The truth is that people have to be stopped from working by force. They would take over empty lots and garden them if the police wouldn’t come and destroy their work.

  220. 8man January 10, 2012 at 3:25 am #

    We should just be honest instead of playing “make believe”: instead of keeping on pretending we live in and acting in this comic book version of the economy where we make believe that “the economy generates jobs”, there “will be jobs for all” and such huge BS, just admit that it doesn’t work like that anymore, in fact it hasn’t been working like that for decades, but we kept on extending and pretending that that was the “natural state of things” when all we were doing was making believe the jobs were there by creating make believe jobs, make believe new “innovations” (especially make believe competition by hire, fire, restructure, open and close factories and and all hogging up profits by all of this) just to keep on changing everything to not change anything at all, etc.
    And calling it a “healthy economy”: what a boatload of crap !
    We must get out of this stone age mentality and start targeting the future, we must become honest and call a spade a spade, and stop making believe we still live in the 18th century. We could start by sending a Man to Mars by the year 2020 and a complete worldwide mass transportation BUS system with millions of high quality luxury BUSES having Rolls Royce suspension systems (the advances of technology can be used by all and appreciated by all)…

  221. Eleuthero January 10, 2012 at 3:33 am #

    You are one of the few objective voices on CFN and, unless I am incorrect, the only person to declare this as the Second Dark Age. On your blog, you pose interesting unsolvable dilemmas: 1) If fracking then polluted water, if no fracking then no oil, 2) If we don’t keep kicking the can down the road economically, is collapse a viable alternative for the majority who are stuck in the system, and 3) If we work on our debts, which group gets arbitrarily picked to be economically wrecked and homeless??
    It takes moral courage to admit of insoluble dilemmas because the easy way out at historical extremes is to posit that there’s a “blue sky” solution when BOTH “solutions” create ruinous consequences. I’ve never commented on your posts but they are absolutely unique and never gild anyone’s lily.
    E.

  222. tegmark January 10, 2012 at 3:49 am #

    From:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=177835
    Interesting reply from:
    http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/01/this-ripe-moment.html
    “Quit making sense; it’s way out of line with the tone of this comment thread. There’s an organization called WWOOF, World Wide Opportunity on Organic Farms. People PAY for the privilege of traveling to farms and working as a dirt farmer for free.
    People PAY for the privilege of helping build Cob of Straw Bale houses. Not just free labor; people pay you to allow them to help. There are millionaires milking goats twice a day and pruning grapes; peasant work.
    And these crazy bastards think that people don’t want to work. The truth is that people have to be stopped from working by force. They would take over empty lots and garden them if the police wouldn’t come and destroy their work.

    Yes, but I think even this is mostly psychological (actually most of these “economic problems” etc. are almost all psychological – cultural): if you decide to do it (a task, a job, an activity), then it is your own will power that is expressing itself against another real or imagined “contrasting will power”, but if they (the boss or government or any someone else) tells you to do it then they are forcing their will power against yours and it becomes WORK, etc.
    But even this can be somewhat overcome if the goal is large scale projects that serialize and accumulate the results of labor, working for the “common good”, but in the last 20 or 30 years it has become fashionable for everyone to work against everyone else, to not create common goals and common wealth and large scale projects for the common good, therefore “be your own boss and start your own company” and become the next Bill Gates or the next freckled face punk who created facebook….

  223. Eleuthero January 10, 2012 at 3:52 am #

    Yeah, there’s no favoritism toward Israel. I mean, we all know that they are NOT a nuclear power in violation of the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty.
    Sigh. Israel is the ONLY country in the world known by everybody from the taxi driver to Kim Jong Il’s replacement to have deliverable nukes. The USA, which continues to play this game of being the world’s last virtuecrat, nods whenever Israel lies … to say nothing of our alliances with bedbugs like the House of Saud while claiming to be allies with the Libyan Rebels and their “just rights for self determination”.
    Not that there’s any particularly virtuous country left. We’re all in a mad resource grab and justifying the unconscionable with heavy philosophy while we’re trying to out-pillage the Chinese.
    E.

  224. Bustin J January 10, 2012 at 4:01 am #

    Not giving a shit is officially “in”.

  225. Eleuthero January 10, 2012 at 4:02 am #

    As the spinmeisters of the financial community work like hell to get the public to believe that lagging and coincident indicators are harbingers of the future, you can be sure that an amazing amount of sanctified looting is taking place in the country.
    Of course, the Chinese Finance Minister’s forecast of “grim” for the world economy of 2012 coupled with ECRI’s worst readings since 2008 do not even come up for discussion on Bubblevision (CNBC) or their faux “competitors” Fox Biz and Bloomberg who trot out one idiot money manager after another with “buy” exhortations.
    The Ides of THIS March will not be Caeser’s bete noire. It will be ours. That’s about when there will be full realization that Goldman Sachs’ unemployment spike forecast wasn’t a pun. Yes, even evil organizations mix a little truth in with their lies because it maintains just enough credibility to allow them to remain covertly devious.
    E.

  226. 8man January 10, 2012 at 5:05 am #

    Vlad says:
    “You need to study some Fascist Theory. Fascism is the Radical Center, the Third Position (think of the high angle of an equilateral triangle). By no means is Fascism just in the middle, a little bit of this and a little bit of that. And to say that is just conservatism is crazy. I mean obviously Capitalism is insufficient and equally obviously Communism is a sham, and a vicious one at that. Fascism rejects both completely in terms of their ideology or approach to life – thus the vertical height. The useful aspects of both it retains – thus its place equal distance from the other angles.
    Hitler tried to join Unions but they insisted that he slander Germany which he refused to do. But he made clear that he despised the brutality of the Industrialists and Business Magnates.”
    I answer:
    Vlad must have a lot of free time on his hands (just like millions of others (but not me, I am busy “working hard”), all a result of excess capacity), a lot of free time to waste on all of this theoretical BS. He is a slave to his mind always trying to justify, compare, etc. Hey, Vlad, why don’t you build some thousands of trillions of skyscrapers and 1966 Oldsmobile Ninety Eights ? Or are you like Busty who doesn’t obey his boss, since I am the boss of both of you and you disobey my commands, jackasses… (but at least Busty has a hot young chick for a girlfriend, you are a lost case).
    What always fascinates me is how simple reality really is as compared to our never ending complex blocks of texts, theories, ideas, science, calculations etc. After all the thinking, the justifications, the theories, the ideological battles and all, then you just go outside and within a split second distraction get run over by a car and die. So cool! Like after all the high theory, when real people have to interact it all boils down to a simple fight, a simple conflicting will power story, a simple A wants the same thing that B wants, they fight, whoever wins takes the prize, or even simpler A wants C and B wants the opposite of C, just because, because Man is conflictual, contradictory structurally, almost as if A wants C, B will want the opposite of C just because, to have an excuse to fight, to distinguish himself compared to B, etc.
    Vlad is probably a black who is just taking this website for a ride, or a white old man who is a queer and would like to have a black boyfriend or something like that…

  227. metuselah January 10, 2012 at 6:45 am #

    Yeah, there’s no favoritism toward Israel. I mean, we all know that they are NOT a nuclear power in violation of the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty.
    ==
    Israel can’t be in violation of a treaty it did not sign. Not that signing a treaty really means anything, as these things are broken as soon as they become in the least bit inconvenient. Canada breaking the Kyoto treaty, being the latest example.

  228. metuselah January 10, 2012 at 6:55 am #

    I’ve already answered that. These are all Vatican organizations.

  229. bubbleheadMarc January 10, 2012 at 6:57 am #

    It was “The Hollow Men” by TS Eliot.

  230. bubbleheadMarc January 10, 2012 at 7:19 am #

    This is pretty entertaining. You may be on to something. I was discussing this situation with LewisLucanBooks and postulated that Vlad might be black in one of two scenarios: [1] like in an early Dirty Harry movie, he could be a black nationalist in public, who in reality is actually a confidential informant or police snitch or else, [2] a light skinned black passing for white.
    You don’t meet many white men who are obsessed with being white unless they are either incarcerated or else living in a “changing” neighborhood and basically under siege [sp?]. So could Vlad be posting from prison?
    On the other hand everyone needs a hobby, so what the hell? It gets creepy though when people start ranting about the Jews. Since I have a German surname and my first name is spelled with a “C” instead of a “K” and when younger I had black wavy hair many people would challenge me demanding to know whether or not I was Jewish. I was always taken aback by this although in a sense it could be a compliment, since of course Jews are more intelligent than all these stupid Anglo-Americans who waste their school years on stupid shit like sports and baton twirling. I am about half Celtic and half Anglo-Teutonic, typical for an American.
    In terms of tribal conflict one observation I had for an Irish immigrant coworker once who was obsessed with the presumed shittiness of the British: first, Americans don’t give a rat’s ass about the British because WE BEAT THEM, then later RESCUED THEIR SORRY ASSES TWICE. So we got it out of our systems. Secondly, if I really wanted to upset Sean I would point out the obvious, that is that the Irish are British themselves, and that when they immigrated to the United States their papers were stamped “emigrated from the British Empire”. Sean in fact came here with a British passport. This is why at Johnny’s Barbershop we always referred to him as “the British Beautician” and not, “the Irish Barber”. Just as the Irish are British the British are Low German. And so it goes. I’m sure that the space aliens are really impressed with us since in the words of Stanton Friedman the chief business of the inhabitants of this planet is tribal warfare. How did I get off on this tangent when I’m not even stoned yet?

  231. metuselah January 10, 2012 at 7:42 am #

    I’m sure that the space aliens are really impressed with us since in the words of Stanton Friedman the chief business of the inhabitants of this planet is tribal warfare.
    ==
    Without our tribe we’d be adrift in a sea of emptiness much like Asoka is. I’ll take my primitive tribalism over the lonely existence that is Asoka, any day.

  232. tegmark January 10, 2012 at 8:12 am #

    But A against B is part of a more general structure of the Universe and namely contrasting will powers, or contrasting elements that are independent from each other. Of course, we come back to the same infinite recursion problems of how are the contrasting – independent entities (or will powers) delimited, where does one start and the other end, are they always subtly connected, are they completely disjoint, are they contrasting but also collaborating to create stability ? but a pure will power particle must have some independent parts, some parts that do not depend on its will power, as in the will power must be a function of some invariants since if all was will power, each will power would have vanishingly small power, and the particle would disintegrate amongst an infinite sea of vanishingly small contrasting will powers. But are will powers simply a proxy for independent parts, for colliding particles and the existence of the will powers become real and effective only the moment the collision occurs and then disappears again ? Is existence only interaction ? Point like instantaneous interactions that come and go, that exist only for a fleeting, vanishingly small moment (probably closer to zero time and zero space, no space and time at all, hence a pure Mathematical Entity, a Pure Information Relationship) ?
    But a new Law of Physics may declare that only so much Matter may be delimited as Will Power, may impose only a very limited number of will power particles in the universe, hence this is the explanation of why we are mostly alone in the universe, the Fermi Paradox as understood under the light of the potential catastrophic disintegration of the universe by too many will power particles contrasting each other and deciding to not create any possible stable entity. Imagine a universe having only will power particles, completely saturated with such pure Free Willonium, a monolithic block of Pure Free Willonium. Imagine an extension of your own will power that could control even the design of all your body, the neural circuits of its own mind, it could control and design a new Man Brain for itself and maybe even control the design of its atoms, the Laws of Physics, even the design of its own “will power structure”, creating an infinite number of new analogous structures, or ever different, ever more wild, imagine insanity achieved, all the external reality, the streets, the planets, all and all dependent on your will power (or more correctly will powers).
    How many different contrasting will powers would you be made up of ? and how could you even be stable in any possible way, always “changing your mind”, “unresolved internal conflicts”, imagine the limit of the numbers of will powers and the powers that they could have tending towards infinity. Very interesting, very frightening, very cool. And absurd, as is all when you start to think about it a little bit deeper…
    By the way Vlad, I am Black, A Nigger, have a nice day…

  233. Widespreadpanic7 January 10, 2012 at 8:48 am #

    Holy Shit, AntiSoak, you are back … with a vengeance!!!
    And you’ve done your homework.
    Obama’s chief of staff, Bill Daley, has quit. Right now there are white house emissaries visiting Wall Street boardrooms, looking for a new chief of staff.
    –WSP7

  234. Widespreadpanic7 January 10, 2012 at 8:51 am #

    Hey Metusaleh, speaking of space aliens, check out the film ‘Aliens and Cowboys’, with Daniel Craig and Harrison Ford. Its Great!!!
    –WSP7

  235. Widespreadpanic7 January 10, 2012 at 9:02 am #

    Hey Asoka we will see how superior Persian Culture is once Cruise Missiles begin raining down on it.
    –WSP7

  236. 8man January 10, 2012 at 9:28 am #

    From:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=177835
    [quote="Kriswest"]Oh i have read your posts and what i see is you wishing to enslave people on a very nasty level. You want big brother, just like they have in North Korea. you are kidding yourself if you think it won’t happen. At the borders of north Korea the guards face inwards not outwards. this is what you propose , this is what you are asking for in the long run. When the government doles out and controls as you wish it to, then it gains total control. Power corrupts , absolute power corrupts absolutely. socialism is needed but on a very small scale, other wise it removes human drive ingenuity. If you have the drive and the intelligence you can do anything you desire. Do what you propose and you wear Gov’t issued clothes live in a government issued home with government issued furniture, eating govt issued food and doing whatever the govt’ tells you to do. And if your kid or you complain your gov’t will charge your family the price of a bullet to kill you before you cause a rebellion. If this is such an ideal way to live then why are the guards in North korea worried about people leving? why do they kill those that try to leave the country? this is the socialism you propose in the long run. Sounds good on paper but reality sucks.[/quote]
    I like the way you respond: what are you stupid or what ? are you taking me for a ride or what ? (probably, I deserve it as I have been taking myself and all these blogs forums for a ride like forever).
    You don’t address anything of what I say, you just say I want a North Korean type of country, or that anything I say directly implies that a country becomes like North Korea. Cool. A very easy way to respond, don’t think about it, don’t debate it, just reply with a standard decades old cliche, anything that is “common good” or socialized, any large scale common project, any honesty in admitting that the technological economy kills jobs structurally means Stalin styled communism.
    But that is ok, that is fine, in all debates, everyone replies in non coherent ways, it is all ok, if I say A, you will say B, no one can back up anything, it is all opinions, beliefs, all just a choice, just a waste of time.
    Anyways, for the record, I am for a mixed economy, I always say public – private, if someone can make it on his own so much the better, if you can invent a new startup so much the better, all kinds of formulas can be used in an open, free economy, no problem with that. Experiment and use all kinds of economic solutions and structures, as long as they work.
    I am saying simply that the real large scale trends of this Technological Economy imply some very different solutions because it generates huge free wealth and excess capacity, hence we can afford free salaries and cheap rents for all. And also as large a private sector economy as can be developed, in fact, with my solution, the private sector and startup economy and be your own boss economy would have a huge boom like no other time in history exactly because so many large scale projects would generate so many new private services and jobs and manufacturing, etc.
    My solution is actually a way to save Capitalism especially from itself, my solution is actually the most pro capitalist solution you can possibly find, the most pro private economy you can find (in fact the greens and environmentalist and resource scarcity doomsters are the real anti capitalist, anti consumerist, anti private economy, but not anti rich since their ideology just concentrates ever more wealth in the hands of the already rich. And in fact I can’t stand their (greens and doomsters) guts, hate them with all of your guts, we need to use nature as a tool, it is not a religion). But what we have today is an old fashioned stone age mentality that doesn’t want to distribute the cash generated automatically into large scale projects (the only ones really capable of creating real jobs) but simply let the same old few thousands of rich families that have been hogging up all the cash for decades, keep on hogging up the cash while hundreds of millions of people worldwide remain idle, unemployed and without any goal.

  237. ozone January 10, 2012 at 9:41 am #

    “Obama’s chief of staff, Bill Daley, has quit. Right now there are white house emissaries visiting Wall Street boardrooms, looking for a new chief of staff.”
    –WSP7
    LOL They’re probably doing exactly that.
    But why go to such trouble? Just tape a list of Goldman Sachs honchos up on the wall and throw a dart. ‘Long as they can talk pretty good, have the sovereignty of G.S. uppermost in their mind, and are reasonably civil, why get too picky?

  238. ozone January 10, 2012 at 9:43 am #

    Dat was fer dat…. ;o)

  239. ozone January 10, 2012 at 9:46 am #

    “If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, is it not possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing about it?”– Edward L. Bernays
    I’d say that’s quite possible, Eddie, quite possible. Now let’s get to Vegas and see what kinda odds they’re giving on the future of humankind, hmmm?

  240. dale January 10, 2012 at 9:58 am #

    Hamilton wanted America to create a Central Bank just like the Bank of England – which had already been infiltrated by one of Rothschild’s sons. Luckily Jefferson and Adams saw the danger. These are well known facts.
    ————————————-
    Well known facts where? I read dozens of books annually on history and had an undergrad degree in History and I’ve never seen any mention of the founding fathers talking about the “Rothchild’s”.
    Well known in the un-reality zone that is your mind apparently.

  241. dale January 10, 2012 at 10:02 am #

    Bloomberg/Petraeus versus Obama/Clinton, who do you see winning?
    ——————————–
    what difference does it make?

  242. greyghost05 January 10, 2012 at 10:05 am #

    Good point to bring up. Back in the mid 70′s there was an author named Von Daniken(Chariots of the Gods) who wrote about “extraterrestial” sites in South America. While interesting, some were proven to have actually been at sea level at one time. Plates shift every so often. One good nudge and Japan could become the next Atlantis. So could New York or anywhere else for that fact. This planet is an live,everchanging entity. It seems that almost everytime there is some excravation for a new building over in Israel or the ME, the remains of some ancient civilazation is uncovered. And the deeper they dig the more they find.
    Climate change is real fore sure. It is a naturaly reoccuring geological event ! If any of you would take the time to study a little Earth Science or Geology at the high school level you can get your heads around the coming changes. So Fuck the blame game ! We should sart to make plans accordingly. If the ice caps are going to melt and raise the sea levels 50 feet,then break out the topographical maps and start making plans to move cities and their corrosponding inferstructure to higher ground starting now. There’s a lot of stuff on low coastal plains that won’t work under water…like nuke’s and oil refineries. Some stratgic planing would surely remove the possibility of environmental disasters down the road if and when the water raises. And on another warm&fuzzy bright note. Think of all the new Real Estate op’s for new beachfront property development at the 60 foot mark !
    Also, back in the mid 70′s when I was in college,the bet then was that we were on the cusp of a New Ice Age. It was lead by some of the same folks that are now crying Global Warming ! This was reinforced by the brutaly cold winters starting around ’75 and running up to around 1980. Speeches were given,grant money was passed around like candy and bucu books were printed and sold. By their accounts, by this point in time we would be under the ice cap again here in Michigan and they could build a ski lift down at Disney-Orlando. Might still happen but the timeline seems a little off. However in matters of preperation for change, I think we should at least start.
    And again, we need to stop the blame / guilt bullshit and start making plans for the mega move to the 60 foot mark !

  243. tegmark January 10, 2012 at 10:06 am #

    From:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/posting.php?mode=reply&f=4&t=177834
    On parallel universes: I don’t think that there can be an identical you at a certain distance (meaning after a certain number of combinations cycle through), because the exact specific combination creating you is distinct, unrepeatable, because it needs an infinite precision to describe, the complete description is infinitely long so to say, and I think that even changing one bit will make that you a radically different you no matter what. Hence the combinational game doesn’t really work in reality.
    Aside from the fact that there may be an infinite number of universes that are all stuck in only a few combinations (always however needing an infinite number of bits to describe, so the combinational cycle game will never work no matter what), that don’t express all the possible combinations….
    Of course infinity is used just as a proxy to mean something else really, some much deeper limitation, something that we can’t conceive of, it is not only a question of large numbers (although that is a gross approximation) and also if there is an exact replica of you, then it is you, there is no need to count them as two distinct entities, they are counted as one, even if there are trillions of exact replicas, since a replica would be different even if it were at a slightly different distance form another replica…
    TOBOR ATE MAN

  244. greyghost05 January 10, 2012 at 10:09 am #

    Probably more like Dorito’s with a twist of lime !

  245. DeeJones January 10, 2012 at 10:09 am #

    ‘Hey Asoka we will see how superior Persian Culture is once Cruise Missiles begin raining down on it.”
    –WSP7
    And hey, we will see how superior the US military is once Iranian cruise missiles start hitting them.
    And we will see how superior Europe is once Iranian cruise missiles take out all the oil distribution, storage & shipping terminals in the Persian Gulf, and they can’t get no more oil for several years, except from Russia, who will make them bend over the barrel for it.
    Ah, your militaristic fantasies continue to be boring.
    ;]

  246. dale January 10, 2012 at 10:10 am #

    The truth seems insane to you because you’ve been cocooned by a web of lies. You’ve been so isolated from the truth by government propaganda and lies, that when you actually hear the truth it sounds insane.
    I assure that I’m saying about Hitler and Stalin is true. If you care for the truth, you will go and research this for yourself. One say you will thank me for this.
    ———————————
    I could spend a lot of time deconstructing this for you, in terms of why you would believe your “research” (which no doubt is on some anti-catholic website), or how you can distinquish between “propaganda” and what you currently believe…..or how “the government” got control of the publishing industry in virtually every country in the world….. but why bother?
    Anyone who thinks that Stalin and Hitler were on the same page hasn’t the slightest idea what happened between 1939 and 1945, and would only regard it as “propaganda” if it disagreed with his crazy notions anyway….so carry on looney boy.

  247. tegmark January 10, 2012 at 10:11 am #

    That was from:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177834
    On parallel universes: I don’t think that there can be an identical you at a certain distance (meaning after a certain number of combinations cycle through), because the exact specific combination creating you is distinct, unrepeatable, because it needs an infinite precision to describe, the complete description is infinitely long so to say, and I think that even changing one bit will make that you a radically different you no matter what. Hence the combinational game doesn’t really work in reality.
    Aside from the fact that there may be an infinite number of universes that are all stuck in only a few combinations (always however needing an infinite number of bits to describe, so the combinational cycle game will never work no matter what), that don’t express all the possible combinations….
    Of course infinity is used just as a proxy to mean something else really, some much deeper limitation, something that we can’t conceive of, it is not only a question of large numbers (although that is a gross approximation) and also if there is an exact replica of you, then it is you, there is no need to count them as two distinct entities, they are counted as one, even if there are trillions of exact replicas, since a replica would be different even if it were at a slightly different distance form another replica…
    TOBOR ATE MAN

  248. ozone January 10, 2012 at 10:14 am #

    Is this the sword of Damocles that hangs over the “white shoe boys” and their debt-denominated con jobs?
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30190.htm
    (Just one reason things could get ugly.)

  249. Elrond Hubbard January 10, 2012 at 10:18 am #

    Just follow the news. Who is it that you ALWAYS hear about ALL the time? Who is it that NEVER here about?
    Coincidence? I think not.

    Brilliant. That’s some absolutely stupendous trollery, right there. “Notice how you NEVER hear how the Vatican is responsible for fluoridation? See, that PROVES what evil geniuses they are! Wake up, sheeple!” The classics never get old. *rolleyes*

  250. DeeJones January 10, 2012 at 10:19 am #

    “You don’t meet many white men who are obsessed with being white unless they are either incarcerated or else living in a “changing” neighborhood and basically under siege [sp?]. So could Vlad be posting from prison?”
    I have always kinda felt that this might be true, plus, his hatred of blacks could be due to having been raped while in prison.
    Altho, he might also be out on parole and living in an old trailer in some park in the mid-west somewhere. Or in a cheap, low rent residential hotel in the seedier part of some mid-western city, such as St. Louis.
    He seems well read, so I have also pictured Vlad as middle aged, probably with dark hair & a beard. He seems to hit the nite-shift here alot, so if he works, he works at night, probably as a security guard at a mall, and gets home after midnight to start posting here. Knowing the employment situation in the US right now, perhaps he is working two min-wage jobs, one in the afternoon, one at nite.
    He holds lots of bitter resentment bottled up inside, he may at some point go to the mall with a gun and just start shooting, with his targets being persons of color.
    Sad, sad, little man.
    :[

  251. progress2conserve January 10, 2012 at 10:25 am #

    “It isn’t, so no change will be forthcoming. False hope is a waste of energy. I can understand your passion on this point, but I don’t see it as ultimately fruitful. Other “factors” of the Great Crumbling will intervene, IMHO.”
    -ozone, concerning immigration reduction-
    O3, this gets us to the question of “Timeline to Collapse,” which you and I have addressed before.
    As I’ve agreed, if your “Great Crumbling” occurs within some reasonable number of years – then yeah, this years immigrants are not a particular problem, because one year’s numbers are so small, relative to the total numbers.
    But, if the “Great Crumbling,” is already occurring (it is, IMO), but continues to Crumble at today’s slow rate for the next two decades, or three decades, or longer.
    That brings us to a United States population of 450,000,000+ – on a demolished landmass that will support far fewer than 200,000,000.
    Google “topsoil depletion” There’s some solid data that “peak topsoil” is going to become a problem before peak fossil fuels.
    In this regard, BustinJ is 100% correct. The US has already passed through a population threshold – that makes the huge majority of us dependent on city living and factory foods. We can’t go “back to the land,” because we’ll kill the land if we do.
    Someday, there are going to be a lot of people in the former US of A – who will be wishing that they had stayed home, and worked for a better day where they were already living.
    I’m just being proactive with the warnings.

  252. dale January 10, 2012 at 10:28 am #

    BTW Vlad,
    Don’t try to back in to reality by avoiding your original statement which was:
    “The Founders were very afraid of the Banking Conpiracy of Rothschild coming to America”
    Where is your evidence for the founding fathers fearing the Rothchilds? After that you can try to justify your statement regarding the “infiltration” of the BOE by the Rothchilds….but one hate filled, fantasy laced, anti-semitic lie at a time please.

  253. greyghost05 January 10, 2012 at 10:29 am #

    Or are the long forgoten spawn of Hiram Abiff ?

  254. Elrond Hubbard January 10, 2012 at 10:37 am #

    Again the anti-White rhetoric of the Left. Elderly Whites are suffering. And Blacks and Latinos should be in jail more since the commit more crimes. Sheesh, will you get a clue?

    Same old racism from Vlad. Your heart bleeds for the suffering, provided they’re white. If they’re non-white, on the other hand, the suffering deserve their fate.
    Under Jim Crow, when white racists held the levers of power, they could easily draft laws that framed black lifeways as crimes by definition, then scream self-righteously about black criminality. More recently, when it was observed that some black people had a taste for cocaine in rock form, versus their white counterparts who preferred powder cocaine, guess whose prison sentences were measured in decades as opposed to years, months or probation? There’s nothing like a racist for stacking the deck against others while ranting that the object of their hate wants special treatment.

  255. ozone January 10, 2012 at 10:48 am #

    No disagreement from me.
    Yep, it’s all about the timeline. The crises seem to be piling on faster and faster. (I’m sure you’ve noticed this, and I believe it to be “awakening” to these predicaments rather than an expression of “panic”.) I believe the speed of collapse will be exponential as the real weight of troubles are verified and laid atop one another. I think you feel it will be more gradual.
    The only thing about placing my bets on “quicker”?
    Ah, it’s the higher price (in rubles) I pay for nuts and bolts. Get your timing right, and you could pick up some actual things of value for very few rubles in the deflationary period.

  256. Elrond Hubbard January 10, 2012 at 11:04 am #

    Something does not compute.

    Yes, and whatever it is is located inside Metuselah’s skull. Met’s theories are to political analysis what ice cream, wrapped in bacon, with a side of surströmming are to cuisine.

  257. ozone January 10, 2012 at 11:08 am #

    BTW, for an example of just how fast a “problem” can accelerate (by action and reaction), simply refer to that ICH article I linked to and look at the timeline. Didn’t take long to get to gunboat diplomacy did it?

  258. metuselah January 10, 2012 at 11:14 am #

    Foreign Conspiracy
    Foreign Conspiracy, published in 1835 by Professor Samuel Morse (inventor of the telegraph and Morse Code), explores the religious and political hi-jacking of the U.S. Republic, who is behind it, how they operate and what remedy can be taken to thwart their plans for installing a Vatican backed dictatorship in North America.
    Vatican backed dictatorship in North America — sound familiar? Vatican backed dictatorship in Europe — does that sound familiar?
    - http://goo.gl/Xy3pr
    Also see:
    The Transformation of the Republic by C. T. Wilcox.
    How the Jesuits and Vatican Murdered Lincoln, Instigated the Civil War, and Transformed American History

  259. SNAFU January 10, 2012 at 11:14 am #

    Howdy Bustin, Per some of your comments about the Amish: “The Ohio Amish are about out of cousins to inbreed with and the Kingdom of Lichtenstein doesn’t export sectarian exiles.”
    I happen to have a number of Amish neighbors from the Ohio clique living on a farm cheek by jowl to mine. I have been thinking about replying to the CFNers who seriously believe the Amish have a secure grasp on the “good” life for some time. Here a a few of my observations:
    1. The Ohio Amish moving into northern NY do so because NY has a hands off approach to them; thereby, allowing them to live the way they want. I would compare the Ohio Amish to the Ultra Orthodox Jewish with reference to their extremisms of belief.
    2. Amish are extremely prejudicial toward blacks.
    3. Amish children and women are for all intents and purposes indentured servants. Children 3-4 years old weeding gardens, with and without their mothers, a very common sight.
    4. Amish children are brainwashed and/or psychologically manipulated to preclude their having any freedom of thought particularly with respect to their religious beliefs which are the basis for their 1800′s period life style.
    5. Amish are as hypocritical as any other group of humans. The Ohio clique absolutely no electricity; however, acceptable in their milk houses as long as the milk buyer hooks it up, is one of many exceptions. Most of the men smoke pipes; I assume this is to keep them healthy. :-)
    6. I have attempted to engage one of the more enlightened of my neighbors in a discussion of their religious beliefs, to no avail.
    7. They shun most things modern yet eat at McD’s, buy canned and plastic wrapped foods in the local grocery’s yet make their own clothing.
    8. They use candles, no running water, out houses, wood stoves (me too), diesel powered saw mills and gasoline powered wood working tools for their cabinet and furniture making enterprises.
    9. Abe (my neighbor) readily admits that if TSHTF the Amish will not be any better off than the English (their term for us) because we are their largest customer base and produce most of the manufactured materials they need to eek out a living.
    I’ll sign off for now as I could go on and on and on concerning the Amish and the folklore that surrounds them that my observations lead me to opine is Bullshit.
    SNAFU

  260. metuselah January 10, 2012 at 11:41 am #

    This will become a very popular cuisine. The truth always is.

  261. TheRockyMountainPilgrim January 10, 2012 at 11:42 am #

    Dear Wagelaborer,
    You wrote:
    “Clearly, you know nothing about the Green Party, or its position on money creation.”
    and
    “I suggest that you check out the website, note that the Green Party has been on this issue for years, and refrain from slandering us anymore.”
    I DID check out the Green Party a long time ago, looking for a political group that reflected my desire to save America from the corporate banksters, and I found your party lacking, sad to say. Oh yes, they do have a “platform” on the need for monetary reform – WAY down at the bottom at Number 2, Subsection I, Section 4. Yes…apparently it’s a HUGE topic of conversation for the Greens…
    I SUGGEST YOU take a look at yourself before attacking other Americans who have done their homework on the Green Party and found it lacking, when it comes to opposing the banksters with the vim and vigor required to actually make a meaningful change in this country.
    Once the Green Party puts the issue of creating our own money via the government and not the for-profit banks FRONT and CENTER then they might stand a snowball’s chance of getting elected, because that would truly be standing up for the People. And I encourage you to do so! Get your leaders making every speech about this most important topic. Stage your rallies around giving the money power back to the People. Put up banners and posters. Send out flyers. Knock on doors and hold town hall meetings. For God’s sake – DO SOMETHING other than stick a small plank on an obscure portion of the website and call it good!!!
    The Foundation Party of America makes the issue of money creation and the will of the People a CENTRAL POSITION, and not just some passing reference amongst all the other myriad lists of demands. Money and Capital are integral to the functioning of a society and should therefore be key to the government’s protection of society. The Foundation Party acknowledges this fact and fights every day to give the power back to the People.
    I stand by what I said before, the Green Party just does not get it. Sorry if that hurts your feelings, but there are a lot of people out there getting more than their feelings hurt right now…
    Best regards,
    Torin
    The Rocky Mountain Pilgrim

  262. wagelaborer January 10, 2012 at 11:44 am #

    You got that right, lbendet!
    When people tell me they fear that elections will be cancelled, I scoff.
    The elections are the biggest circus going, to keep us pacified.
    We’ve already been through months of it, and still have 10 months to go.
    They would never stop the pretense of voting. Sure, half the population no longer participates, seeing very clearly how worthless it is, but the other half falls for it everytime.

  263. driguana January 10, 2012 at 11:45 am #

    A great post and an unyielding provocation for the new year. It truly is time for folks to open their eyes to the reality of the surrounding sham. The big question, hnowever, still remains. I bring this up over and over and the discussion of it remains sparse….Who are the leaders that will lead us out of this mess? Where are they? How are they planning a path out of this corrupting miasma? Most people still believe that politicians are leaders……they may be, but not necesarrily. Clearly the politicians of today are NOT. Politicians have become power brokers interested in their own power base and their own personal greed. Yet are diurnal lives are full of politics and not leadership…..or, as I would call it….spiritics….those who lead by spirit and conviciton of spirit. Leadership is about problem solving….and that’s where we’re at….a point at which we need to solve our problems. Who will lead that? Where is Spartacus or Cincinnatus or Jean D’Arc when we need them????

  264. wagelaborer January 10, 2012 at 11:50 am #

    Well, Edward Bernays was already using it.
    And George W. Bush also was told that repeating things until people “understood them” was his job.
    I had a teacher who always said “Repetition is the key to learning”.
    I think our ruling overlords have learned the lesson well.
    They repeat absurdities until they don’t seem absurd anymore, and those who point out that they are absurd are ridiculed by the others. Amazing.

  265. Elrond Hubbard January 10, 2012 at 11:59 am #

    Where do you stand on the New World Order’s attempt to coerce Uganda into accepting Homosexuality – which is against both Traditional and Christian Ugandan Culture?

    So much the worse for both Traditional and Christian Ugandan Culture, then. Innocent Ugandans are being threatened with taxpayer-funded homicide for private, consensual behaviour that is their own business and no one else’s. That kind of thing could almost make one grateful for a candidate who is only as bad as Rick Santorum.

  266. wagelaborer January 10, 2012 at 12:03 pm #

    According to the management at my place of employment, the federal government will withhold 2% of all Medicare funds starting next year until October, at which point only those hospitals in the top 20% of the country will receive the funds.
    This is a lot like No Child Left Behind.
    Every year hospitals will be judged, not just on their ability to provide good care, (by checking mortality rates post surgery, for instance), but also on their Press Ganey scores, which is surveys that a small minority of patients turn in.
    So every year, less and less money will go to hospitals (this is on top of the money just taken from Medicare and used to give to private insurance companies, to “subsidize” poor people), and, inevitably, hospitals will close. Most hospitals survive with Medicare and Medicaid funds.
    So, time is life, sometimes. Time is muscle. The Golden Hour. We have a lot of sayings about that. A long distance to the closest hospital can mean death for some people.
    And increased co-payments make medicine impossible to buy for some people. And some people depend on medicine to keep them alive. As I said, if they die, it’s because they were sick, so it won’t seem that strange. It’s just that they could have been kept alive.

  267. wagelaborer January 10, 2012 at 12:10 pm #

    It was on a busride with a bunch of Europeans that I realized that I preferred Americans.
    I can’t help it, I suppose. But I just like the American way of being friendly and cracking jokes and the rest of it.
    Poetry is a different part of culture, you’re right. But I like American music and American movies and American books.
    I don’t have a passport. I’m pretty typical American, except for my left wing views.

  268. greyghost05 January 10, 2012 at 12:11 pm #

    On point # 1. Maybe they could swing thru Brooklyn and boost the gene pool among the Ortodox ?
    On point # 7, here in Michigan they will gladly come over and use your phone and sneak a peek at the TV if you let them in.
    And on the missed point #10. Have you ever seen any Amish women that were beautiful ? Most of what I’ve seen out in Hillsdale County, MI. are very plain looking. Must be the inbreding.
    One more observation is that their bathing habits are about the same as the Orthodox. I’ll always remember riding on the subway in the summer and having to stand next to one or more of the Orthodox men. Nasty group of people ! Especially during a hot humid NYC summer. Please don’t be offended Jim. I’ll bet you bathe.

  269. Kurt Cagle January 10, 2012 at 12:23 pm #

    Rhino,
    It depends upon who controls Washington as to whether the Northeast or the South secedes first, though I’d lay money on it being the South as well. Also, don’t rule out El Norte as being the catalyst. (George Friedman at Stratfor actually puts this as a very high probability event, albeit towards the end of the 21st century). However, once it happens, it will also significantly up the possibility that it will happen throughout the country. Countries can take decades to assemble, but can disintegrate in weeks. I also think this will be the case here. Such a breakup may occur within the next ten years, or the next fifty, but when it comes, it will be swift.
    It’s also worth noting that had Fort Sumter not happened, it was very likely that Lincoln would have let the South secede. Historical documents from that period indicated that in 1860, sentiment was high on all sides that the North and South were just not destined to work as a single country, and many on the North were just as happy to see the South go as people in the South were. Yet when an unauthorized group of “partisans” in the South attacked Ft. Sumter, this was seen as a deliberate provocation, and attitudes changed overnight.

  270. wagelaborer January 10, 2012 at 12:24 pm #

    You know, I thought that asoka’s link to John McCain was pretty chilling, but the sheer blustering immorality of Marlin’s boast creeps me out beyond belief.
    I hereby take back the nice things I said about Americans.

  271. greyghost05 January 10, 2012 at 12:27 pm #

    Dee, what do you think would happen should the Iranians shoot first ? My bet is that we would teach them and the world a serious lession in Nuclear diplomacy. As one of those Trident BMS’s out there in the Indian Ocean unleashes a few MIRV’d Tridents.
    There was a joke back in ’79 that went like this: Q) What do you call a sheet of glass that glows in the dark ?
    A) Iran if they kill the hostages !
    And the song remains the same. Their leadership knows full well what will happen. And I’ll bet they’re holding their breath everytime our carrier battle group cruises by. The biggest fear is not their leadership giving the order,but an overzealous grunt taking it upon himself to smoke the great satan while they’re so close.
    I surely hope and pray that we never have to deal with such a scenerio.

  272. wagelaborer January 10, 2012 at 12:31 pm #

    You’re right, the Green Party does not share your obsession with money as the main problem with our society.
    We’re more worried about the destruction of our ecosystem, the ongoing wars, fossil fuel use, agribusiness, the prison-industrial complex, the attack on civil liberties, and the like.
    The money supply is just one part.
    I’ll tell you what. You just go right ahead with your one idea, and spread it around. You’re right, more people need to know about it.
    But we’re not a one platform party.

  273. budizwiser January 10, 2012 at 12:32 pm #

    What voices will resolve out of the phenomenal noise of gadget America, with its deafening tweets, incessant advertising, instant messaging, idiotic robo-calling, and ever-present flat-screen assault on the senses?

    Well, as a matter of public record – and on a national forum at that – Ron Paul speaks truthfully on many of the matters I believe to be important. Although I can not defend all of his lunatic-like positions – he is the only candidate that owns up to the totality of the “rigged system” that is being forced down the throats of most Americans.
    In as much that no honest politician has a chance to win high office- I prefer my vote to mark my support for a candidate that at least speaks truthfully some of the time.
    Recent history indicates that the country would be in much better straits had Congress been impeded by a strong-minded lunatic-racist rather than the conniving, lying double-crossing bastards we’ve had for the the last 20 or more years.
    So yes Jim, no matter how futile, how lunatic, there are voices being heard…….

  274. Elrond Hubbard January 10, 2012 at 12:37 pm #

    Hey Asoka we will see how superior Persian Culture is once Cruise Missiles begin raining down on it.

    “Ha ha, ancient Persian culture! Your awesome intellects are no match for our puny weapons!” I mean, no love lost for the mullahs, but sheesh.

  275. Widespreadpanic7 January 10, 2012 at 12:37 pm #

    Asoka what fantasies? I’m waiting for the Iranian Navy to challenge the 5th fleet. How long will it last? Maybe about 15 minutes.
    Anyway, Asoka, Amidinijad is in Venezuela, a guest of Chavez. These are two pols you can really get behind, no pun intended.
    Did you get an invite?
    –WSP7

  276. wagelaborer January 10, 2012 at 12:37 pm #

    Nuclear bombs are not “diplomacy”. They are weapons of mass destruction. For you to joke about bombing Iran with nuclear bombs makes you look bad. And don’t forget that the stated reason for the threats is that Iran may someday have such a weapon. That’s the propaganda we are hearing.
    I suggest that you read Ozone’s link, and put an end to your nationalistic bluster.
    It’s not about you or your country, Grey. The ruling overlords are not that into you.
    It’s about money and oil.

  277. wagelaborer January 10, 2012 at 12:41 pm #

    Chilling article, ozone.
    He left out the part about Ghaddafi trying to sell Libyan oil in gold dinars, however.
    The response was swift, and this time France was involved, not like when Saddam tried to sell Iraq’s oil in euros.
    Hmmm. Euros vs dinars. I wonder why France joined in this time?

  278. budizwiser January 10, 2012 at 12:42 pm #

    What me worry – go shopping folks -or the terrorists will follow you home and rape your daughters and sodomize you baby sons….
    Film at eleven.

  279. wagelaborer January 10, 2012 at 12:44 pm #

    You’re only making yourself look more disgusting.
    Celebrating mass murder because the murderers are flying your flag is sociopathic.
    This isn’t a football game.

  280. Kurt Cagle January 10, 2012 at 12:47 pm #

    Vlad,
    Quite possibly, regarding the Chinese I’d be more inclined to suspect long term assimilation rather than direct invasion. In my novel, I assumed that China may in fact have helped support a Cascadian uprising seeing it as a way to get a more solid footing in North America (Richmond, British Columbia, is the largest modern Chinatown in North America, and English is very nearly a second language there compare to Mandarin).
    I also tend to concur that you’ll see a migration of the more conservative white population into the Western Alliance. Cascadia is a lot like Chile, even today – a long, thin coastal country that runs along the western edge of the Cascades. On the other side of the Cascades, the population is decidedly more conservative, and far more like that of Denver or Salt Lake City than like that of Seattle or San Francisco. Eastern and Western Washington, for instance, are culturally, environmentally, and historically two very different people, and there’s a lot of friction between the two going back since the region’s initial occupation in the mid 1860s.
    Indeed, one of the big effects of such balkanization will be the creation of more homogeneous nations as people immigrate/emigrate to find cultures closer to their own values. I’d say there’s a real possibility that you might see the emergence of a buffer state emerging just north of the Appalachian Mountains, for instance, that would be largely populated by African Americans fleeing from the Deep South Apartheid (what I call Ubuntu in my novel, which is the Swahili word for Community). Miami would become the new hub of an island nation that Caribbean that would subsume Cuba, Puerto Rico, Jamaica, Haiti and the Dominican Republic with an ethnic mix of blacks and non-Mexican Hispanics, and so forth.
    The possibility that violent ethnic cleansing will occur is also very real, as is the idea that the new nation-states, now locked in a tug-of-war for previously common resources, will become belligerent towards other regions. Take a look at the conflicts that sprang up in the 1990s as the Warsaw Pact disintegrated. Americans are not immune to this.

  281. Elrond Hubbard January 10, 2012 at 12:49 pm #

    This will become a very popular cuisine. The truth always is.

    Fine. Enjoy your rotting fish.

  282. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 1:28 pm #

    An old idea but a good one. I first read about it in Thomas Chittum’s “Civil War Two”. He thinks that the Blacks will take the Deep South with Atlanta as a Capital. But can they keep it? Though Blacks have been moving back for decades the Mexicans are now coming too – following the Blacks whom they have ethnically cleansed from Southern California. There’s alread a low level war, one which the Blacks are losing. I’d see a chance for a White Appalachian State perhaps – with the old South as an inspiration. Over time they would probably make gains against the Blacks. But the Mexicans? Sad to say, the Mexican People are now more vigorous and organized than any in North America. Maybe if we stopped buying their drugs we’d have a chance….
    New Jerusalem will stretch from Wasington DC up to Maine. It will seem to be Old New England, but actually be run by the you know whos. The fools on this site think race is nothing; in geopolitics it far closer to being everything.
    Another book you might like is “The Nine Nations of North America”. Heard it’s good but I’ve never gottena around to it.

  283. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 1:37 pm #

    So you don’t think the Founders were afraid of the English Banking Conspiracy or the French Illuminati? You are very ignorant. You may know alot about History as it is written by the Court Historians but not the inner causes.
    For example, do you know about the Morgenthau Plan to genocide the German People after WW2? No aid was to be given, rather the Germans were going to be forced to become “an Agricultural People”. One Senator when after the son of a bitch on the Senate Floor and called it genocide. FDR and Bernard Baruch dropped it and told Henry, “we’ve got to give them something”. Morgenthau was bitter: he knew that FDR and Baruch has used him to float the idea and then left him hanging when it popped.

  284. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 1:40 pm #

    I can feel sorry for others – once mine are taken care of. Communists do the opposite, care about everyone else first. Now which is more natural? Go on, you can do it. But will you be too proud to admit you were wrong?

  285. Elrond Hubbard January 10, 2012 at 1:43 pm #

    The fools on this site think race is nothing; in geopolitics it far closer to being everything.

    Vlad, I for one aspire to the dignity of being classed a fool by the likes of you. For the record, though, race is not nothing; clearly racial divisions (NB: *not* the same as putative racial differences) are a serious issue — one that needs to be overcome, not embraced or exploited. That is all.

  286. Elrond Hubbard January 10, 2012 at 1:51 pm #

    I can feel sorry for others – once mine are taken care of. Communists do the opposite, care about everyone else first. Now which is more natural? Go on, you can do it. But will you be too proud to admit you were wrong?

    Your philosophy, rigorously applied, was what created such charmingly civilized societies as tribal Pakistan, present-day Iraq, and northern Ireland during the Troubles. Not self before others, not others before self; putting no one first, but creating and sustaining institutions that put all on an equal footing, and enable all to flourish; that’s my philosophy.

  287. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 1:56 pm #

    Dixville Notch, New Hampshire Election Results
    3 … Barack Hussein Obama
    2 … Mitt Romney
    2 … Jon Huntsman
    1 … Newt Gingrich
    1 … Ron Paul
    Interesting that the two most liberal Republican candidates got the highest vote counts, after Obama, who is also liberal. Center-left votes won.

  288. Elrond Hubbard January 10, 2012 at 1:56 pm #

    To add to my point: I don’t care if sectarian chauvinism is more ‘natural’ than other points of view. The idea that what comes naturally is always for the best (aka the naturalistic fallacy) is pernicious, romantic nonsense. Crimes like murder and rape are routinely motivated by such natural drives as revenge, lust and suspicion/hatred of the unfamiliar. You can take what you consider natural and stuff it up the hole in your culture.

  289. driguana January 10, 2012 at 1:58 pm #

    “there are voices being heard”….but leadership still not evident. I think a lot of misguided people are hearing voices in their heads these days!

  290. DeeJones January 10, 2012 at 1:58 pm #

    “Dee, what do you think would happen should the Iranians shoot first ? My bet is that we would teach them and the world a serious lession in Nuclear diplomacy. As one of those Trident BMS’s out there in the Indian Ocean unleashes a few MIRV’d Tridents.”
    I seriously do not think that the Iranians, no matter how they are portrayed in the MSM, would deliberately fire or attack first. They are not stupid, and the Iranians I have met state the same.
    However, they are being goaded, pushed into a corner, teased, whatever you want to call it into responding to some perceived threat, whereupon the US & nato will use such as as an excuse to attack them. The US is pushing it as close to the edge as they can, just hoping some nervous Iranian Revolutionary Guard shoots at them so they can ‘retaliate’, and there is no doubt that if say an Iranian shoots at a US plane that just happens to stray over thier airspace, it will be blown out of proportion into an attack by them first, even tho the US is ‘fishing’ for an excuse to attack first.
    Sadly, I feel that even if the Iranians show such remarkable restraint as they have up to now, the US may just manufacture some “Tonkin Gulf” incident to start a war. But even the Joint Chiefs have stated that things could get out of hand very fast, and that Iran should not be underestimated.
    They have thousands of missiles now that can do serious harm to the oil infrastructure in the Gulf, damage that will take YEARS to repair.
    How much oil does the US have in the so-called Strategic reserve? Oh, just a few months at the most, WITH tight rationing.
    So, I don’t think that Iran will ever attack the US or Israel first, no matter how much the US or isreal lies about it. But I do feel that they are being pushed into a corner where they might feel they have to launch first or lose.
    But this is all insanity anyway. Which is why I got out of the US. Just couldn’t take the insanity anymore.

  291. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 2:01 pm #

    You have alot of cheek to say that after decades of persecuting Whites in the name of equality. And the endless down playing of Black murder and rape. And then, and then extending these special privledges which were intended (publicly!) only for Blacks because of slavery, to Hispanics and all kinds of colored immigrants. Funny kind of equality Mother Hubbard. But you don’t care – they’re just Whites. You’re special, a good one, all that payback is for OTHER Whites.
    Our demoliton and Black enhancement is the rocket fuel which will propel you and your’s to the Heaven of Virtue that you aspire too. In the end, it’s all about You. Even the Blacks are just there as compassion objects. You really don’t expect much from them, do you? You don’t believe in Equality: you are superior that’s why you can help them. It’s a sick blend of Christianity and Social Gospel.

  292. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 2:04 pm #

    So become the hero of your own life and google up Black Rape and Murder statistics, you horse’s ass.

  293. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 2:09 pm #

    ¡Viva Walter Rauschenbusch!

  294. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 2:11 pm #

    Be good Ape Man or you will get unplugged. I am White as the wind driven slow. And all my Ancestors too, back to the begining. But as a machine man/ape/eight/egg you don’t care about genetics. You just want to be downloaded asap. I want to become more human – you less. You would use machines to enhance your ape animal functions. Acutally you might have a point: fembot surrogates might serve a valuable funtion until the Patriarchy comes back.

  295. DeeJones January 10, 2012 at 2:11 pm #

    Say, Vlad, I notice you must be on your lunch break. Do you eat in the food court, or does mall management make you eat in some dingy lunch room behind the restrooms?
    I’m saying this because I think I’m pretty close to the mark in my earlier description of you.
    Now tho, just where do you live? trailer park or seedy residential hotel? ;)

  296. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 2:17 pm #

    You want me so bad. As the songs says, some people want to abuse you, some people want to be abused. You like to abuse, but in the flesh the polarity might shift.
    I’m not a Monster, I just put my race first as the Founding Fathers did. Ask your Tico friends whether they’d be happy if their daughter or sister hooked up with a Black. Or do you already know the answer to that one?

  297. Elrond Hubbard January 10, 2012 at 2:17 pm #

    And the endless down playing of Black murder and rape

    This, and your entire post, are a fine example of the mental mutilation of racism, that leads you to class ‘black murder and rape’ as a phenomenon distinct from ‘murder and rape’, full stop. There’s no helping someone who insists on seeing the world through race-coloured glasses, but responsible people still have to uphold basic standards.

  298. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 2:21 pm #

    Gitmo prisoners have begun peaceful protests against being imprisoned 10 years by USA barbarians who have denied the prisoners due process of law. 89 of the prisoners were cleared for release by the Bush administration, but have not been released due to the American barbarians’ fears.
    Bush’s military commissions have conducted six trials in ten years. Civilian courts have prosecuted hundreds of terrorists in the last ten years. The do-nothing military is a waste of money.
    The USA military maintains Gitmo, which inspires terrorists around the world, and thereby makes the USA less safe. Maybe that is what they want. Vicious cycle.

  299. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 2:26 pm #

    We are still at the begining of understanding these things. There are cycles within cycles. Even during major Ice Ages there are warming spells which last centuries or thousands of years – the ice recedes hundreds of miles and then it’s over and it all comes back. Someday we’ll know more about these little cycles, maybe even predict some of them. And some may always catch us by surprise like volcanic eruptions do. Besides the Sun, volcanoes are also weather makers. If the super volcano underneath Yellowstone goes, it’s game over for this whole Age.
    We’re so delicately balanced now that even a little cooling like the 70′s might cause famine over much of the world.

  300. Buck Stud January 10, 2012 at 2:32 pm #

    ” Hey Asoka we will see how superior Persian Culture is once Cruise Missiles begin raining down on it.”
    Are you channeling Archie Bunker just for fun, WSP? Because every once in a while you come up with some pretty bizarre comments despite your obvious intelligence.
    BTW, I don’t think engaging Iran will be a cakewalk. And according to Debka.Com (is this site believable?) a conflict with Iran is immenient. If a champion gets into the ring enough times someone is bound to land a lucky punch, as Mike Tyson will testify. And delibertely engaging/provoking Iran is playing with fire, IMO.

  301. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 2:33 pm #

    Oh so you know! But we’re not supposed to or at least not react. Meanwhile your lily White Ass is well out of danger. This was the Media response to the Black Flash Mobs in Phillie: how dare anyone point out that it’s Blacks! What does it matter?! Well it matter if you’re White and they’re targeting you and you want to stay alive. Idiot.
    Finally the Black Mayor told the Truth on Sunday in Church saying that the Black Youffs had disgraced their race. You White Liberal Turds should feel ashamed of your pandering. You’re not helping anyone, only hurting. If they don’t stop then they will be gunned down at some point. Is that what you want? No? Then speak up – if you really care about them and not just your own virtue in hating poor or conservative Whites.

  302. Kurt Cagle January 10, 2012 at 2:35 pm #

    GreyGhost,
    I hadn’t seen the game, actually, but will look it up. Most of the divisions that I see are based actually upon linguistic groupings, settlement history and current demographic trends. A good guide to this is American Nations by Colin Woodward.
    Taking this back to Jim’s books, I’m not as inclined to think that the oil collapse will happen as quickly as he posits (though it will happen) but I also think that there’s a geopolitical aspect there that needs to be taken into account. Certain regions will reach self-sufficiency much more quickly than others. The Pacific Northwest is awash in potential energy and water sources, and has active ports that provide them more options, which is one of the reasons that I see it being a vibrant society independent of Federal control.
    The Southwest, on the other hand, is rapidly drying out, and the economic blows dealt to places like Las Vegas and Scottsdale may very well prove mortal given the environmental degradation. However, an urban Mestizo culture centered around Los Angeles and San Diego could very well work, but the ties there will eventually be stronger to Mexico City than it will Washington, DC.
    More likely the Long Emergency will be systemic degradation and localized consolidation, but I don’t see it degrading to the purely township level for some time (decades, maybe even centuries). The big cities will become more critical, states will be less so. The suburban rings and corridors will become the next slums, and in many cases will go fallow as abandoned houses disintegrate due to weather and “urban reclamation”. Regional identity will matter more than city identity will, though there will be rivalries between cities. Once the US Dollar collapses (which it’s on its way to doing) so too will Federal hegemony, and with it the union.

  303. metuselah January 10, 2012 at 2:36 pm #

    Whatever it is, it is better than the lies that we’ve been served.

  304. Kurt Cagle January 10, 2012 at 2:36 pm #

    GreyGhost,
    I hadn’t seen the game, actually, but will look it up. Most of the divisions that I see are based actually upon linguistic groupings, settlement history and current demographic trends. A good guide to this is American Nations by Colin Woodward.
    Taking this back to Jim’s books, I’m not as inclined to think that the oil collapse will happen as quickly as he posits (though it will happen) but I also think that there’s a geopolitical aspect there that needs to be taken into account. Certain regions will reach self-sufficiency much more quickly than others. The Pacific Northwest is awash in potential energy and water sources, and has active ports that provide them more options, which is one of the reasons that I see it being a vibrant society independent of Federal control.
    The Southwest, on the other hand, is rapidly drying out, and the economic blows dealt to places like Las Vegas and Scottsdale may very well prove mortal given the environmental degradation. However, an urban Mestizo culture centered around Los Angeles and San Diego could very well work, but the ties there will eventually be stronger to Mexico City than it will Washington, DC.
    More likely the Long Emergency will be systemic degradation and localized consolidation, but I don’t see it degrading to the purely township level for some time (decades, maybe even centuries). The big cities will become more critical, states will be less so. The suburban rings and corridors will become the next slums, and in many cases will go fallow as abandoned houses disintegrate due to weather and “urban reclamation”. Regional identity will matter more than city identity will, though there will be rivalries between cities. Once the US Dollar collapses (which it’s on its way to doing) so too will Federal hegemony, and with it the union.

  305. xhalor January 10, 2012 at 2:37 pm #

    About the Persians…
    A few of my Iranian friends here in LA examined a few of asoka’s posts. They deemed said persona a “schizophrenic cunt”.
    AHMIR: “If Iran were such a beautiful place filled with such beautiful people we would have stayed.”
    Not gonna be responding to the usual onslaught, so lemme have it. Gotta go play tennis. Ta-ta.

  306. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 2:41 pm #

    someone is bound to land a lucky punch
    —————-
    or an undercut, say an unexpected Iranian ICBM originating from somewhere in South America.

  307. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 2:43 pm #

    Those Iranians who left are among the beautiful Iranian people who were victims of the fundamentalist takeover of Iran. They cannot deny their five millenia cultural heritage because of this 20th century blip.

  308. metuselah January 10, 2012 at 2:44 pm #

    Aliens want our gold. How true! And their headquarter is in the Vatican.

  309. turkle January 10, 2012 at 2:52 pm #

    What makes you think Vlad has a job?

  310. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 2:52 pm #

    Kurt said: “The Pacific Northwest is awash in potential energy and water sources, and has active ports”
    =====================
    Kurt, Cascadia is a high-risk disaster zone. Cascadia gets a massive earthquake every 300 to 500 years around here, and it is due. They’re super bad. When it comes, it’s a monster. A full-rip nine.
    And when it hits, it’s going to shake for a long time. Three to five minutes or more. Kurt, you’re going to feel lucky to survive.
    Then guess what. You rode out the quake? Congratulations. Now you have 15 minutes to get above 50 feet of ele­vation. Bye-bye ports.
    Fifteen minutes. You’re elderly and not very mobile? Sorry. Your condition does not change the geologic facts. It’s called a tsu­nami. The water’s coming. It can’t be stopped. Don’t ask Jesus to save you. Be your own Jesus.

  311. Rhino January 10, 2012 at 2:53 pm #

    Wagelaborer,
    It’s about money and oil? It would be great if it were that simple. But it isn’t. At least I don’t think so.
    Have you ever seen a barroom brawl or a schoolyard fight? What are they about? Muscle flexing, status, respect, approval of one’s peers.
    Look at the ludicrous US invasion of Kuwait. Was it about money and oil? What earthly difference would it have made if Saddam controlled Kuwait? He would have sold the oil just like the beards that were in control before.
    So what was the invasion of Kuwait really about? Nothing much IMO. It was about Bush the Elder showing off the size of his johnson.
    Was the invasion of Iraq about money and oil? I don’t think so. If it had been about mere money and oil IMO it would have been much more profitable to be friends with Saddam and let him stay in control and do business with him. Sell him arms, buy his oil, get oilfield contracts from him, send him plane loads of hookers and liquor.
    So what was it about? Dubya had to kick somebody’s ass after 9/11. Saddam had been thumbing his nose and going nya, nya. So Saddam and some of his cronies ended up at the end of a rope. Really stupid but there it is.
    So what do you figure this little dance with Iran is about? This has been going on for 2,500 years. The Greeks fought them, the Romans fought them, the Byzantines fought them and all these centuries later we’re still fighting them and it wasn’t just the poor innocent Persians getting picked on. They did their share of aggression.
    So what is all this about? Proving whose is bigger that’s all. The beards running Iran or Hillary’s and Obama’s.
    IMO if this was about money and oil there would be peace and the Iranians and Americans the oil companies and everyone involved would be getting rich and lining their offshore bank accounts.

  312. turkle January 10, 2012 at 2:55 pm #

    Oh, yes, the climate change “myth.” It must be a huge coincidence that snow cover this winter is 16% when the average is 65%. I must have imagined all those disappearing glaciers and the melting perma-frost. Or the steadily rising average global temperatures. And let’s not listen to 99 out of 100 scientists who agree on this issue. Let’s look to Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and (preferably) the oil and gas industry sock puppets.
    And their proof to the contrary, that it is all some doctored story? A few emails.
    Real geniuses, these people. No wonder we’re doomed.

  313. turkle January 10, 2012 at 3:02 pm #

    “We are still at the begining of understanding these things.”
    No, Vlad, there are people who spend all or most of their working hours examining man’s impact on the climate of the earth, and they have arrived at a nearly unanimous consensus that we are changing the climate. The CO2 and other molecules that we add to the atmosphere are contributing to the greenhouse effect, thereby increasing the average temperature here on planet Earth. Cyclical climate cycles are taken into account when these measurements are determined. It isn’t that hard to understand, for people with functioning brains. The climate change deniers are, at this point, given the mountains of evidence demolishing their position, a laughable bunch of rubes, liars, and dupes. How appropriate that you’ve tagged along for that silly little ride. Care to tell us any more about climate change isn’t part of Yaweh’s master plan? *snigger*

  314. Widespreadpanic7 January 10, 2012 at 3:04 pm #

    Ya, Buck Stud, I am being a little over the top jingo and provocative here, I’ll admit. (about Iran). Truthfully I doubt if anything serious will happen there. All sides have too much to loose.
    Just the kind of response Asoka is trying provoke with his BS about Persian culture. He knows what buttons to push.
    –WSP7

  315. metuselah January 10, 2012 at 3:06 pm #

    It’s about money and oil? It would be great if it were that simple. But it isn’t. At least I don’t think so.
    ==
    It’s about control. It’s about intimidation of others. It’s about war profiteering. It’s about many others things, including oil and US dollar hegemony. It’s about your denial of all these things, and the fascist empire that you serve and play a pathetic propaganda tool for to ease your conscience.

  316. turkle January 10, 2012 at 3:06 pm #

    Mine? Sorry, Vlad, but I’m pretty sure no one wants to belong to a club that would let you into it.

  317. turkle January 10, 2012 at 3:08 pm #

    “IMO if this was about money and oil there would be peace”
    IMO, that’s a pretty silly take on international politics.

  318. Kurt Cagle January 10, 2012 at 3:14 pm #

    I would suspect that most African Americans will be willing to fight to the death before acceding to living in an Apartheid state, and given current demographic trends, I suspect that in terms of numbers they would probably give White southerners a run for their money. They may very well split the South in half and control the former confederacy from Alabama west – Western Kentucky and Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, eastern Louisianna all have larger African American populations than they do Caucasians. Appalachia, on the other hand, has long been white – it was settled initially by Highland Scots who brought a fierce independence of spirit and a tendency to fight anything and everything around them just for the challenge of the fight, and even today I don’t see that changing. The Whites in the South are more likely to cluster around the Eastern part of Dixie – Atlanta, Savannah, South Carolina, Eastern Tennessee and Kentucky, North Carolina, Virginia.
    That’s one of the reasons why it’s so hard to place Texas – and why I don’t see it as really being a part of Dixie though it may be a sympathetic ally. The Panhandle region of Texas falls in Apalachia, the Eastern edge is part of the Mississippi delta region, the south has definite roots in El Norte, while West Texas is definitely part of the mountain states. Yet its identity as Texas is very strong (this differs from California, where SoCal differs considerably from Southern Cascadia (San Francisco and points north) and both vary from inland California, which is more like a mountain state.
    With regarding to El Norte, it’s important to realize that these are not Mexicans. The dominant culture is Mestizo – Spaniards that intermarried with the native American Natives in the dying days of the Spanish Empire. The Northern states of Mexico have long been a challenge to Mexico City (which is far to the south) in great part because of this Mestizo presence. Their identity is more American (they listen to American television and often speak English far better than the Mexicans of the South, and have been growing in terms of political clout and power for several decades now) , but they also increasingly see themselves as distinct from both Mexico and the United States, though obviously beholden to their respective governments. As those governments weaken (by becoming more fascist), calls for autonomy will grow stronger.

  319. Rhino January 10, 2012 at 3:15 pm #

    I’m a little more skeptical that climatologists really have a firm grasp of how climate works.
    Just recently some scientists have said that maybe our impact on the earth’s climate via CO2 emissions may be staving off an on-coming ice age. So my question is why has such an obvious issue not been examined until now. Or at least why haven’t we heard more discussion about it?
    It’s not as if nobody knows that we’ve been through massive swings in climate over the last two million years ie a succession of glacial advances and recessions. And the state of knowledge on the issue seems to be that these repeated glaciations are related to orbital cycles.
    So why haven’t we hardly heard a peep on how far we are from the next glacial advance given the apparent predictablility of these things? Or at the very least how far we WOULD have been had our activities not intervened or subverted the process?
    I’m not a scientist and I’m not plugged into that community but the apparent silence on this given all the heat and fury on climate change is a mystery to me.
    So what do YOU think is worse, global warming or an ice age? As I said in a previous post personally I have no earthly idea. I wish that there was a climate scientist out there that could give some guidance on the issue.

  320. Rhino January 10, 2012 at 3:20 pm #

    Why so? Human nature is a complex thing.
    Mere “money and oil” in my opinion doesn’t cut it as an explanation to account for what’s happening out there. Too simplistic. There’s other factors at work ie powerful and primal and primitive and not so rational.

  321. Rhino January 10, 2012 at 3:23 pm #

    Get help.

  322. turkle January 10, 2012 at 3:26 pm #

    There’s nothing “mere” about oil (or money for that matter). What planet do you live on?

  323. Rhino January 10, 2012 at 3:32 pm #

    To answer your question: I live on Earth.
    Now let me ask you the same question: what planet do YOU live on?
    Another question: have you not observed human behavior?
    Another question: can you read? If you need help let me know.

  324. Kurt Cagle January 10, 2012 at 3:40 pm #

    Asoka,
    I lived for a while in the mud flow regions northeast of Mt. Ranier in Olympia, WA and was literally at the epicenter of a 7.9 magnitude quake. Ironically, my daughter had an earthquake drill earlier that morning. We’re also due for a Pacific Tsunami. So?
    You plan accordingly, expect that you’ll take some damage, shake your head at the damn fools that build on the side of an active volcano and move on. In many respects, places like Vancouver, Seattle and San Francisco are better prepared than the rest of the country precisely because they know the dangers of both weather and natural disasters – they live with them every day.
    The flipside of that is that a geologically and weather active region has all kinds of potential for non-petroleum based power. Hydroelectric, geothermal, wind, wave action, methane vents, not to mention a healthy agrarian system (a number of cooperatives have started up in the PNW collecting methane waste from cattle and using that to generate power).
    It’s a big part of the reason that the Green economy is more vibrant there than elsewhere – the region can support more alternative energy forms than most other places not just in the US but in the world. Maryland (where I’m currently living and can’t wait to move from) is an example of the opposite.
    The weather has greater extremes most of the time, but there are fewer places to take advantage of wind farms, geothermal differentials are minimal, there are few waterways that have the kinetic energy necessary to make hydroelectric feasible, and the traffic patterns and layout of cities make car travel a prerequisite through much of the state (in its defense, Maryland has a better commuter train system, but the Puget Sound is catching up there as well).

  325. turkle January 10, 2012 at 3:42 pm #

    Frankly, I don’t give a crap what you think makes the world go around. Believe what you want.

  326. Elrond Hubbard January 10, 2012 at 3:53 pm #

    So what was the invasion of Kuwait really about? Nothing much IMO. It was about Bush the Elder showing off the size of his johnson.

    Actually there was a substantial geopolitical motivation for the U.S. to punish Saddam for invading Kuwait. The linchpin of the American empire is control over the major sources of petroleum in the Middle East. Please note: not access, but control. This course was set in the aftermath of WWII and has been standard ever since.
    Were the U.S. not the imperial hegemon, it could still purchase Middle Eastern oil on the open market like everyone else, but the one crucial thing is to demonstrate to the whole world that it is Washington’s hand that controls the spigot and no one else. Hence, Iran immediately becomes an enemy when it kicks out the Shah and stops taking orders; hence, Saddam receives support from Washington as long as he is fighting Iran, only to take his lumps in turn when he overreaches in Kuwait. Dubya’s attempt to take direct control of Iraq and make it a launching pad to continue into Iran and perhaps Syria glaringly failed, and showed that the U.S. is similarly overreaching. It remains to be seen whether Washington will successfully recover and preside over what remains of the petroleum era, or if the prize (largely spent by now in any case) will slip from their grasp entirely.

  327. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 4:10 pm #

    She doesn’t care about real history unless it trashes the United States or at least the Western Culture.
    What do you think about the rumours that Obama is gay and that Michelle is just his “beard”?

  328. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 4:14 pm #

    The native Hawaians wont let the State develop the incredible geothermal potential of Hawaii. The Godess Pele wouldn’t like it. Let’s give them one of the islands and turn the rest of it into Paradise? Either that or cede the whole place to the Japanese who will at least protect the lives and property of their White Citizens against the Polynesian terror.

  329. turkle January 10, 2012 at 4:15 pm #

    Okay, you’re skeptical. Fine. Please don’t substitute criticism and doubt for lack of knowledge altogether.
    The idea of Global Warming has predictive power. The melting of glaciers and permafrost, more frequent and harsher droughts, milder winters, hotter and drier summers, the warming of the oceans, and more numerous and destructive hurricanes, among other evident realities, are all predicted by this theory. That’s why it is legitimate and worth taking seriously, not because some climate scientist pulled it out of a hat out of boredom.
    Your concern with a new Ice Age is purely peripheral. If recent models are accurate, the effects of Climate Change could become severe and catastrophic within 100 to 150 years (probably sooner actually), which on the scale of Ice Ages every 40,000 or so years, is far more worrisome and immediate.
    And that’s not to say that Climate Change is some kind of moral position. It is an observed effect. I, for one, believe that we have a snowball’s chance in hell of actually reversing it, given that countries like China and India are rapidly industrializing, with all the new coal-fired power plants that this entails.

  330. Bustin J January 10, 2012 at 4:16 pm #

    KG said, “The Pacific Northwest is awash in potential energy and water sources, and has active ports that provide them more options, which is one of the reasons that I see it being a vibrant society independent of Federal control.”
    The PNW looks one way on a map, but consider this in your analysis. A metro region of 2 million people; multiple (federal) military bases and federal military contractors, nuclear missile bases, active duty and dependent populations well over 250,000. In what, way, shape or form do you imagine federal control being lost in this region? The feds employ, directly or indirectly, a significant percentage of the population.
    “See Cuba surviving a 50 year hostile USA blockade as an example. Of course, most of the world will not have a hostile blockade in place, so survival should be easier.”
    Its easy to say this about the new world. In many places cultivation only really started within the last 100 years. The question is will greeks improve their soils while stomping all over it, tilling it with modern implements? Probably not. Will they preserve water tables by putting holes in the ground and venting them to the surface? Probably not. Will their surplus, shipped miles away by fossil fuels, going to nourish and support hordes of anti-environmental selfish consuming hordes improve the overall environment? Probably not.
    When was the last time you visited the Mediterranean? They will deny it because they are habituated to it, but the legacy of millenia of agriculture is writ large on the landscape. Especially since the 1950s. Packed earth and dust. Too many fucking people. Not enough fish in the sea. A region where biodiversity has been under constant assault for thousands of years. The productive tree-fruit farms are barren monocrops.
    So, while some rejoice for the avoidance of an ice age, this region will see the expansion of the Saharan desert. I’m being a hard cunt about Greece and the old world. In attempting to pay the rent by intense cultivation, they will destroy capacity. Inevitably.
    All the permaculturists believe that they can improve upon nature. The fact is subsistence is expensive. Practically no one starts on an ideal landscape. Often the landscape doesn’t have the guaranteed minimum capacity for subsistence. But stubbornness and the best intentions inform the optimism of amateurs. They’ll ignore the wastes and damage they create, and count their success in banana yields two years out. There is no evidence anywhere on Earth of an improvement in biodiversity or ecosystem stability by any form of agriculture, unless you’re starting at bottom. And when it feeds the desires of the massive end-consumer in service of a market economy, the farmer is nothing but a middleman for EarthRape ™. EarthRape, on a stick, in a pickled jar, by the pound or kilogram. Whats your flavor?
    And what if the end-consumer finds Greek olives processed by amateurs to be inferior to Professional Turkish growers? Well, their surplus will be sold at a loss and their asses will be kicked off their land. In short order the worthless dirt-patch will be converted to summer-time villa, paved over with some stucco monstrosity so that the paragons of our economy, the upper classes, can have someplace to watch the sunset in their golden years because no one can afford to retire in the fat, crowded urban centers.

  331. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 4:22 pm #

    You always know which side your bread is buttered on. As you said before, if war threatened you would abscond to Canada or someplace safe. But you can’t judge other men by your own cowardly standards. Bin Ladin gave up a life of luxury to live in a cave – all so he could fight for his beliefs. Countless Americans do the same – not everybody in the Army is a loser or just couldn’t find work.
    Humanity is often better than you though I agree that much of the ordinary idealism makes for trouble. Obviously I support neither Bin Ladin nor the typical American Patriot/Crusaders. Real Patriots support a sane foreign policy like that of Ron Paul’s.

  332. turkle January 10, 2012 at 4:38 pm #

    “You always know which side your bread is buttered on.”
    I’m not sure I know what this is supposed to mean. I wasn’t aware that I had any figurative bread or that it was buttered one way or the other.
    “As you said before, if war threatened you would abscond to Canada or someplace safe.”
    Yes, that’s called self-preservation. I’m not taking a bullet for the team, sorry.
    “But you can’t judge other men by your own cowardly standards.”
    Sure I can judge all I want. But who said that I have any standards at all, anyways?
    “Bin Ladin gave up a life of luxury to live in a cave – all so he could fight for his beliefs.”
    During the Afghan War against the Soviets, perhaps, but post-9/11 he was put up by the Pakistani military.
    “Countless Americans do the same – not everybody in the Army is a loser or just couldn’t find work.”
    So what? So someone decides to join the army because they’ve got a stiffy for Uncle Sam. I’m supposed to respect that why? Neither the war in Iraq or Afghanistan was honorable (by military standards), featuring a lot of killing of innocent civilians like those who drove too close to the Hummers or got in the way of a drone strike, and both were arguably optional. Both were/are huge boondoggles and are mostly run for the benefit of insider defense contractors. Why am I supposed to respect the choices of someone who fights for causes that I don’t believe in? The soldiers are rubes and dupes, and most say as much when they become disillusioned after a few tours of duty.
    “Humanity is often better than you though I agree that much of the ordinary idealism makes for trouble.”
    I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. How is humanity better than me? That really makes no sense. What’s your benchmark?
    “Obviously I support neither Bin Ladin nor the typical American Patriot/Crusaders.”
    Yes, we know you’re off in your own little world, Vlad, party of one. ;)
    “Real Patriots support a sane foreign policy like that of Ron Paul’s.”
    Glad to see you’ve hopped on the bandwagon to support the Alternative Republican Presidential Candidate of the Month. I assume you’re also a big fan of his racist newsletter that he’s now disowned.

  333. turkle January 10, 2012 at 4:43 pm #

    Good to see that at least one person is paying attention.

  334. dale January 10, 2012 at 5:20 pm #

    So you don’t think the Founders were afraid of the English Banking Conspiracy or the French Illuminati? You are very ignorant.
    ——————————————
    Well, by all means school us all Vald. You’re always trying to impress up with your “knowledge”, so impress us with a source for it for once. I can’t wait, you’re going to prove just one of your accusations….wouldn’t that raise your credibility and standing here?
    It’s common knowledge according to you, so it shouldn’t be hard to find a legitimate source to post here so that we won’t all have to be so misinformed….right?
    Remember now, the founding fathers were afraid of the Rothchilds, that’s the issue…OK?

  335. malthus January 10, 2012 at 5:24 pm #

    Excellent writing. Especially “Too many fucking people,” and “hordes of anti-environmental selfish consuming hordes.” Malthus may have been wrong once but it does not mean he would be wrong now. Thanks for the excellent perspective.

  336. turkle January 10, 2012 at 5:40 pm #

    Asking Vlad to provide a credible source?
    AHAHAHAHAHAHA.
    Good one, dale.

  337. turkle January 10, 2012 at 5:41 pm #

    “Malthus may have been wrong once but it does not mean he would be wrong now.”
    Why are you talking about yourself in the 3rd person? ;)

  338. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 5:41 pm #

    dale, I think the opposite was the case.

    Great, however, as is their fame as skilful financiers, the Rothschilds enjoy a reputation for liberal and unstinted benevolence which does them far greater honour. The rise of the Rothschilds is the more remarkable seeing that they belong to an outcast and down-trodden race.

    Gotta love the Jews. They have done so much good in the world. Wonderful people! I love Jews!
    SOURCE: The Rothschilds: the financial rulers of nations by John Reeves (London, 1887)

  339. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 5:43 pm #

    Why should I? You already said you wouldn’t accept anything unless it was from a source you believed – orthodox, court historians. You don’t believe in Conspiracies – even though the Founding Fathers were Conspirators, as were the French and Russian Revolutionaries. As are people like Obama and Hilary – both Alinsky Disciples. By defining reality so narrowly, you commit to a superficial understanding of how things work.
    Let’s not try to run before you can walk. Before I try and track down obscure sources, do you believe that there is a plot to dissolve the border between Mexico and the United States? Or that there was a plot to turn Europe in Eurabia? Or do you believe that “it just happened” – the classic cop out of the lazy and uninformed?

  340. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 5:55 pm #

    If there are no standards, we’re all just having a party of one. Heroes of the Revolutionary War and Indian Fighters (Washington was both) created this country for themselves and their posterity. And this is how you repay them – by a supercillious attitude. Why do you value your scrawny neck so highly? Even Mahatma Gandhi valued courage and called his Non Violence Movement a Path for Warriors. Most Hindus were too afraid to do it so he went to the Sikhs at one point – one of the warrior peoples of the subcontinent.
    What is your life if you can’t dedicate it to something higher? Just that of an intelligent animal. As Christ said, “Unless a seed falls and dies it remains alone. But if it falls and dies it brings forth great fruit”.
    Look, start watching Fight Club over and over until you change. It is easily the greatest movie of the last fourty years and has great power to open the hearts of lost young men.
    And someday your comrades will say of you, His name was Robert Paulson. His name was Robert Paulson. His name was Robert….

  341. DeeJones January 10, 2012 at 6:01 pm #

    “The Southwest, on the other hand, is rapidly drying out, and the economic blows dealt to places like Las Vegas and Scottsdale may very well prove mortal given the environmental degradation. However, an urban Mestizo culture centered around Los Angeles and San Diego could very well work, but the ties there will eventually be stronger to Mexico City than it will Washington, DC.”
    You are forgetting that So Cal now gets most of its water from Nor Cal & the Colorado river system. Any major divide of Cal and So Cal won’t be getting any water from up Norte. Since it is a desert, and can’t support the current level of population with out Nor Cal water, So Cals pop will probably drop to just a few hundred thousand tops. San Diego will be a ghost town, as well as most of eastern So Cal.
    Without Nor Cal water being siphoned off to the South, the Delta and bay will recover some of the old ecosystem, and perhaps the salmon population may also recover, as well as the stripped bass.
    When I was young, you could catch 4 foot king salmon in the Sac river, and huge striped bass.
    I don’t think there is a viable run of salmon anymore. Sad. :(

  342. DeeJones January 10, 2012 at 6:05 pm #

    Say Vlad, are you off work now, or just on a break between janitor & security guard jobs?
    Isn’t it Happy Hour someplace cheap? Why don’t you go get hammered before your next shift starts.
    I won’t tell your boss, really, I promise :)

  343. h7m1s7g1 January 10, 2012 at 6:05 pm #

    ?????????????????????????????????open([f,???????????,???????????????????,???????????????2004???????????2010????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????“????????????????

  344. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 6:07 pm #

    Actually, when you have a population density of 5 to 10 people per sq.km., as is the case in much of the desert southwest, with 6 to 14 inches of rain a year, with little or no industry, the aquifers will last for decades, if not centuries.
    This will vary from state to state depending on pop. density, precipitation rates, and level of industry, but the southwest is not monolithic.

  345. DeeJones January 10, 2012 at 6:13 pm #

    Now there is the voice of reason! And such clear an cognizant arguments too! Ah, if only Vlac could be so clear and precise. But alas, he has his head up in a very dark and scary (& smelly) place, and I doubt he will every see the clear light of day. :)

  346. progress2conserve January 10, 2012 at 6:13 pm #

    Concerning the breakup of the US
    Not happening, folks, been there and done that.
    I got in a whizzing contest on the local paper’s discussion thread, back in the heyday of the early TEA Party. There was lots of secession talk in Texas, and it spilled over into my little Georgia mountain town.
    Other posters were busting on me for saying that secession didn’t work out that well for the South in 1864, and was not going to work any better in 2008. And I said that I couldn’t believe native Southerners would talk the way these guys were talking.
    Sure enough, I went to a TEA party meeting out of curiosity, staying in the background. The guys who wanted to secede from the Union so badly – were loud mouth Yankee retirees, come South to tell us “how much better they did things up North.”
    I’m not saying things won’t get bad.
    I’m not saying regional power won’t increase.
    Or that National power won’t decline.
    And I’m certainly NOT saying that humanity and the world would not have been better off through all of history – with a more divided “United” States.
    I AM saying that there are practical reasons that secession will never happen again – related to internal supply lines, internal military and paramilitary forces, the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, and the need for a UNITED front to attempt to project US power – even to the waning and dying days of our hegemony.

  347. progress2conserve January 10, 2012 at 6:35 pm #

    Atlanta*
    Atlanta developed the slogan back in the aftermath of the Civil Rights movement – “The City too Busy to Hate.” And, honestly, things aren’t quite as bad in Atlanta, with respect to black/white relations, as they are in a lot of other large cities. Same can be said of Charlotte, NC.
    (One reason I argue against Vlad so violently sometimes – native Southerners – black and white – know how bad things COULD be, and we’re not going to let that happen if we can help it.)
    They’ve got a new black mayor, Kasim Reed – who BARELY beat a little white chick, Mary Norwood. The vote, naturally, broke out somewhat on racial lines – but things could be a whole lot worse.
    My concern about Atlanta, though, is more that no one who lives or works there actually DOES anything. (hear THAT, 8M??) They’ve got the massive income from the Atlanta Airport, lots of government spending – but the tax base is nearly 100% finance, insurance, real estate. (FIRE) The real productive industry left in the 70′s.
    I’m not sure why anyone, black or white, would be moving INTO Atlanta, post-collapse.
    Of course, that goes for most all of the United States – - – speaking of which -
    why are immigration rates so high? ;-)
    ———————
    *Atlanta. I knew I was in another State, practically another country – when a cute little customer care girl at a Texas rest stop asked my wife and me, “Where are y’all from?”
    “Atlanta,” I replied.
    “No kidding,” she says to me. “Atlanta, TEXAS?”

  348. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 6:46 pm #

    the need for a UNITED front to attempt to project US power – even to the waning and dying days of our hegemony.

    Good luck with that! The USA military runs on petroleum and JHK has informed us that peak oil means the USA military will one day be grounded.
    And I’m not just talking about fighting vehicles like the Abrams Main Battle Tanks, or the Bradley Fighting Vehicles or the Armored Personnel Carriers (Strykers, LAV 25s, M113 Armored Personnel Carriers and Amphibious Assault Vehicles)
    Without petroleum the USA military will have stranded High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles (also known as HUMVEEs), Desert Patrol Vehicles, Light Strike Vehicles, M1117 Armored Security Vehicles, Interim Fast Attack Vehicles, etc.
    Same goes for Mine Protected Vehicles like RG-31s, RG-33s 1, Buffaloes, Cougars, International MaxxPros, BAE Caimans, Oshkoshes, etc.
    All will be grounded and rusting from disuse.
    For that matter the combat engineering vehicles will also be out of service, like the Armored Combat Earthmovers, Armored Vehicle Launched Bridges, Recovery Vehicles, Wolverines, Graders, Wheel tractor-scrapers, Backhoes, Caterpillars (both D7s and D9s), Wreckers, etc.
    All a monument to the waste project that is the USA military.
    Same goes for the self-propelled artillery and anti-air vehicles like the Stryker Mobile Gun Systems, Full-Track Paladins (with 155 mm Howitzer Motor Carriages), Dragon Fires (with Self-Propelled Mortars), Multiple Launch Rocket Systems, High Mobility Artillery rocket systems, Improved Tow Vehicles, Avengers, Patriots, etc.
    All dead without fuel, rusting from disuse.
    Logistics and resupply will be impossible without LARC-Vs, M35 2½ ton cargo trucks, M939 Trucks, M970s, Medium Tactical Vehicles, Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Trucks, Logistics Vehicle Systems, JERRVs, Palletized Load Systems, Commercial Utility Cargo Vehicles, R-11 Refuelers, and Gun Trucks, not to mention the unmanned combat vehicles like the Gladiator Tactical Unmanned Ground Vehicle, the Foster-Miller TALON, the Dragon Runner, the Multifunctional Utility/Logistics and Equipment (MULE) and Armed Robotic Vehicles.
    Now we know what our tax dollars have been wasted on as we head into the TLE.
    Whether the timeline is long or short, we cannot doubt JHK that the military is coming to an abrupt end without petroleum to run it on.
    Oh, jets and bombers and a myriad of military aircraft also use fuel like hogs eat slop. The aircraft, all of it, will be grounded.

  349. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 7:00 pm #

    By the time we got to Woodstock
    We were half a million strong
    And everywhere there was song and celebration
    And I dreamed I saw the bombers
    Riding shotgun in the sky
    And they were turning into butterflies
    Above our nation

    We are stardust
    Billion year old carbon
    We are golden
    Caught in the devil’s bargain
    And we’ve got to get ourselves
    back to the garden
    – Joni Mitchell

  350. bubbleheadMarc January 10, 2012 at 7:14 pm #

    Sorry I missed your post last week. I don’t always read everything. This last post was merely for comedic purposes prompted by the sheer volume of your writing on the blog here. If there were a convention of Clusterfuckians some day in Saratoga Springs hosted by JHK I’m sure that I would enjoy your company more than most. If people don’t approve of your ideas then they should refrain from comment because all they’re doing by critizing you is enhancing your notoriety. If you read between the lines of my post you will notice that there is no actual criticism of you, so I’m sorry if you feel annoyed. People don’t bother making fun of me because I hardly ever post and then when I offend someone I always apologize, as after all, since I haven’t actually met anyone from the blog I can hardly work up the bile to dislike anyone. So in a very real sense I’m making fun of all the people who like to criticize you. And yes, Stanton Friedman is correct: the chief business of the human race is tribal warfare.

  351. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 7:30 pm #

    You’re a doofus.

  352. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 7:33 pm #

    So you are against the poor too – not just Whites.

  353. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 7:36 pm #

    metuselah said:

    Without our tribe we’d be adrift in a sea of emptiness much like Asoka is. I’ll take my primitive tribalism over the lonely existence that is Asoka, any day.

    Metuselah, let me first say I really appreciate you making this comment. Your primitive tribalism will eventually fade away. It is the nature of tribes to eventually disappear.
    When you die, you must leave the tribe behind, because the tribe is artificial.
    You can relabel, use metaphors, or use words like “diaspora” but the tribe will no longer exist for you in any real sense. The tribal experience is temporary.
    Emptiness, on the other hand, is permanent.
    Emptiness is my true nature, the nature “I” had before my parents met. I am going back to emptiness upon my death, which is very near now. Soon I shall be joining Qshtik.
    Meditation is the practice of letting go, relaxing, and embracing that emptiness … so as to be able to go gracefully into death when that opportunity arises.
    Everything comes out of emptiness and everything goes back to it. Once I knew what emptiness is I loved it. It is ecstatic. Buddha called it shunyata. Emptiness is the source of everything.
    My life has been a journey of the Alone to the Alone, a return to the Source which is Emptiness. I guess I value emptiness as much as you value your primitive tribalism. To each his own.
    Thank you, metuselah, for your comment.

  354. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 7:38 pm #

    A happy doofus.

  355. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 7:45 pm #

    Alright then. I’m sorry you missed my last post – it was an attempt to reconcile misanthropy and White Nationalism.
    You are right that the Jews are a very smart people. And that leads to power. And power is morally neutral. Thus we have every right to look at the Jews and criticize. They wont do it themselves, believe me.
    When Mel Gibson’s manuscript for “The Passion” was stolen, they started making demands on changes they wanted. He demanded the return of the manuscript via his lawyer, and theatened legal action. The debate in the Jewish Community was fierce. They knew they had egg on their face. Threre was alot of recrimination about poor tactics, misjudging his character, etc. No one to my knowledge debated the morality of the theft, only the wisdom of it nor the morality of trying to suppress artistic freedom. All the debate was tactical. They are essentially on the same page at least about changing America in a certain direction.
    Are all men who want a flat top assholes? Is there not one honest flat top seeker? I don’t want one, but I have trouble just getting a regular haircut – they ask what I want and then don’t do it. It must be hard taking orders all day – many barbers must rebel in little ways. It’s hard to serve people. I have found it so.

  356. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 7:55 pm #

    No you will become terrified of the White Light and even of many of the lesser lights. You will attracted to mating couple and then to the Man if you are going to born female or to the Woman if you are going to born male or the opposite if you are going to be “gay” and that theory is correct in your case.
    Whatever you do when in the bardo, don’t look down. If you start doing that it’s a sign that you are going to be born as an animal. Soon you will be looking for a burrow. If you find yourself looking down, immediately remember the Buddha and your vow.

  357. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 8:07 pm #

    LOL!
    I’ve done the bardo trip many, many times.
    No worries. No conflicts. No fighting. No fear. Both the peaceful and the wrathful deities have become my friends. For a doofus it is easy. Nothing but peace and love.

  358. metuselah January 10, 2012 at 8:14 pm #

    Were the U.S. not the imperial hegemon, it could still purchase Middle Eastern oil on the open market like everyone else
    ==
    No, it could not. Not if the oil was not priced in US dollar which the US can print as many of as it wants. The US has no assets it can back its US dollars with other than oil. Without the sale of oil in US dollars, US imperial hegemony is finished.

  359. Elrond Hubbard January 10, 2012 at 8:16 pm #

    Look, start watching Fight Club over and over until you change. It is easily the greatest movie of the last fourty years and has great power to open the hearts of lost young men.
    And someday your comrades will say of you, His name was Robert Paulson. His name was Robert Paulson. His name was Robert….

    You have taken exactly the wrong lesson from Fight Club. The lost young men in that movie outsourced their souls to Tyler Durden and chose to become faceless space monkeys to do his bidding. Why? Because he acted like someone who knew what he was talking about, when in fact he was simply out of his mind. At the end, he finally comes to terms with how full of shit he’s been all along, and all his little revelation costs is enormous destruction for the world around him. Or as Christ put it, “Blessed are those who understand themselves without having to blow up a bunch of buildings and getting a friend killed.”

  360. DeeJones January 10, 2012 at 8:24 pm #

    You’re a doofus too!
    And just where does this come from?
    “So you are against the poor too – not just Whites.”
    And I have to disagree with this:
    “If people don’t approve of your ideas then they should refrain from comment because all they’re doing by critizing you is enhancing your notoriety.”
    No wonder he is called “bubbleheaded”.
    If someone disagrees with someone else, like you do, then they are obligated to critize those ideas.
    Its even better if they make FUN of those ideas, and the person stating them. That way, no one reading them will ever take them seriously. Responding to your racist BS with a serious critique just gives you credence, and since I think your ideas are without credence of any kind, I think they should indeed be made fun of, so that others in the future will write them off as the mutterings of a crackpot, which i think you are.
    So I will continue to make fun of you and the silly ideas you espouse.
    Now, get back on patrol, Mr. Security guard, or janitor, or whatever job you as an ex-con have.
    Say, are you one of those dog-shit picker-uppers on the weekend in the park? I may have seen you.
    Are you the one that picks it up and smells it to make sure its not a Tootsie Roll? Better take a bite just to make sure! :) :)

  361. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 8:26 pm #

    I know my brother by the flowers in his eyes.

  362. metuselah January 10, 2012 at 8:28 pm #

    You hear about the CIA and drug trafficking, but you never hear about the connection between the Vatican and the CIA. You never hear about the connection between the Vatican and the mob. You never hear about how the Vatican is able to maintain its vast empire of palaces world wide and the population of pederasts that live there. Why is that, Vlad?

  363. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 8:29 pm #

    They lost their boyhood and became men. Tyler was the Mother. Women give birth to boys but only Men to other Men. Guys like you and Turk just haven’t made it yet. You’re still a space monkey.

  364. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 8:34 pm #

    So if I was a guard or garbage picker that would make me worthless? That’s old Eve speaking! I mean you imagine yourself as a humanist right? So where do you get off condemning poor men?
    Race is real D. As real as breed in dogs. Go out into the jungle. Take off your clothes. Feel into nature. Stop thinking, just feel. Everything I say is true. Our fair skin is not only beautiful, but it enables to produce Vitamin D in cold, cloudy environments.

  365. Buck Stud January 10, 2012 at 8:34 pm #

    ” Now, get back on patrol, Mr. Security guard, or janitor, or whatever job you as an ex-con have”
    Actually, the occupation of janitor is very honorable work, as is trash collector etc. And on more that trash pickup day I have met my trash collectors just to give them a tip. They work hard all day long, picking up trash after snotty philistines who imagine themselves too elite to roll their sleeves up or get their hands dirty. Funny, huh?

  366. Elrond Hubbard January 10, 2012 at 8:38 pm #

    Were the U.S. not the imperial hegemon, it could still purchase Middle Eastern oil on the open market like everyone else
    ==
    No, it could not. Not if the oil was not priced in US dollar which the US can print as many of as it wants. The US has no assets it can back its US dollars with other than oil. Without the sale of oil in US dollars, US imperial hegemony is finished.

    Every country in the world somehow or other manages to get the petroleum it needs, even if they’re not on the U.S. dollar. They trade their currency for U.S. dollar reserves, at whatever the going rate is, so they can then trade those dollars for oil. If oil were no longer priced in U.S. dollars, the U.S. would simply have to start playing the game like everyone else, instead of uniquely benefiting from it as they have for the past decades. Bad news for the U.S. economy, obviously, but the whole country is not suddenly precluded from participating in oil markets like turning off a light.

  367. Vlad Krandz January 10, 2012 at 8:38 pm #

    The Vatican is a Globalist Organization at this point. Poor Benedict is doing the best he can. He had to join Hitler Youth as a kid.

  368. DeeJones January 10, 2012 at 8:42 pm #

    Actually, I was making the point that as an ex-con, Vlad would probably not qualify for a much higher position on the economic food chain, such as oh, nuclear power plant operator, such as Homer Simpson held, Linear Accelerator Engineer, or anything much above the pay scale that I have imagined above, even tho he pretends to have the intellect to qualify him for something much higer.
    You are the ones turning it into some kind of class warfare, and as the Republicans say, thats just plain wrong.
    Now, do you see how that works Vlad, et al?
    People will associate him with some crazy person who picks up and smell dog poo in the park, and thus write off his racist ideas as crap.
    Sorta like the MSM works too, ya know, that ol’ advertising degree sometimes comes in handy. :) :)

  369. progress2conserve January 10, 2012 at 8:43 pm #

    “Whether the timeline is long or short, we cannot doubt JHK that the military is coming to an abrupt end without petroleum to run it on.”
    -asoka.-
    Asoka., you seem to have this idea that the US will weaken to some point that our military will, magically, cease to function.
    Not going to happen.
    For all of JHK’s talents as a writer and racial theoretician, I think he may be a little weak on the end of empires and strategic military logistics.
    Even if you get your wish, asoka., and the US degenerates into a miasma of 600,000,000 hopeless and desperate souls – our US DoD will continue to obtain fuel, and to dominate as much of the World as it can – and it will continue to maintain functional nuclear weapons and delivery systems into the far future. I’ll guarantee you that there is long range planning, already in place, to support these missions.
    Maybe Allah can bring it to a halt, but I wouldn’t hold my breath on that one, either.
    And our US military will continue to attract the “best and brightest” of minds, as it always has – since before the founding of the country.
    One other thing we can count on, is that our military will be a road out of desperate poverty for impoverished immigrant masses, yearning to breath free – long after the rest of the American Dream is in the grave.
    Hooah. Hooah.

  370. DeeJones January 10, 2012 at 8:44 pm #

    By the way, I didn’t know that you were a janitor, and didn’t mean to personally insult you, but you really sound like you should feel better about your job and yourself.
    Go and have a beer, it might help. :)

  371. metuselah January 10, 2012 at 8:48 pm #

    Every country in the world somehow or other manages to get the petroleum it needs, even if they’re not on the U.S. dollar. They trade their currency for U.S. dollar reserves, at whatever the going rate is, so they can then trade those dollars for oil.
    ==
    Those other countries don’t spend a trillion dollars a year on their military producing nothing other than the means to thieve and grab from others. Those other countries actually produce useful things that others want to trade for.

  372. metuselah January 10, 2012 at 8:50 pm #

    The Vatican is a Globalist Organization at this point.
    ==
    When was it not a globalist organization?

  373. messianicdruid January 10, 2012 at 8:57 pm #

    JHK says, “This ripe time is the natural moment for a true opposition to rise.”
    “When looking at Ron Paul it is necessary to completely remove your ideology goggles. One of the ways that the Internet is waking us up to is the fact that our ideologies, beliefs and protocols have all been given to us, invented by, this criminal network that now threatens our very existence. Examining his positions it is easy to see that Ron Paul knows and understands who is really ruling us. He has worked it out and his positions are really the only way out of the mess we are in. The criminal network has worked its way into almost every institution that exists. Understanding that it becomes clear that the only way out of the current predicament is too get rid of almost all of the institutions that exist.
    That would be schools, militaries, large bloated federal programs, foreign aid and a lot more. These institutions exist almost solely to keep the masses in line and stupefied as to the existence of the criminal cabal. These institutions are not there for the reasons that they claim to but they exist because they are tools of the criminal network. Our schools don’t teach us how to think, but what to think, our military is not there to make us safe, but to invade and steal the possessions of other countries for this criminal network.
    Ron Paul articulates positions that, if put into effect, would eventually undermine this criminal network. Once we can remove the shackles of this cabal we will come to understand how much wealth we really have. When that moment comes a lot of our current unsolvable problems will become solvable.”
    http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?57738-Ron-Paul-Will-Win-In-The-End

  374. metuselah January 10, 2012 at 9:09 pm #

    Good post.
    Now, figure out who is it that runs this criminal network. Hint: It’s the same people that run the criminal organization which scribed your Vatican bible.

  375. progress2conserve January 10, 2012 at 9:12 pm #

    “Hint: It’s the same people that run the criminal organization which scribed your Vatican bible.”
    -met-
    WAIT, METUSELAH, I KNOW THIS ONE!
    PICK ME! PICK ME! PICK ME!
    It’s the Elks Club, isn’t it. Gotta’ be!
    Moose Lodge?
    Rotary Club?

  376. metuselah January 10, 2012 at 9:17 pm #

    PC, did you start on of the readings that I’ve posted. You know, this is YOUR history more than it is mine. Samuel Morse knew exactly what he was talking about. Everything he wrote has come to pass. He authored 2 books on the subject, read them!

  377. progress2conserve January 10, 2012 at 9:20 pm #

    Whoever it is, even the Vatican?, met, I’ll bet they are all in favor of high incoming immigration into the United States.
    And, yeah, that was a good post in favor of Ron Paul, MD. Messianic Druid.

  378. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 9:21 pm #

    What are you doing on CFN? You obviously do not believe what JHK is saying. You don’t believe in TLE or WMBH (in which there is no functioning national military), so why are you here if you don’t believe we are going to run out of oil and a collapse is going to happen that immobilizes our military? Maybe you are here for entertainment, like so many others. Or to spread fear about 600,000,000, which is not going to happen. People will be leaving the USA in droves soon, perhaps to avoid radiation sickness … and you will be left to get by as best as you can, clinging to your guns and your Bible.

  379. Buck Stud January 10, 2012 at 9:26 pm #

    LOL…but I no longer drink or smoke pot and I never did smoke tobacco. One day about twenty years, I decided to just quit, and that was that. Oh, don’t get me wrong, sometimes I long for that seemingly magnified ability to be in the moment that marijuana provides. As a Russian mentor once told me, doing very small, monotonous detail work requires a shift in consciousness: One must become a midget in peaks, valleys, and acute crevices of very detailed, minute form that is often overlooked with ordinary scale vision. And a good pair of optical enhancers never hurts either. This is the “specific” aspect of form-development. From the general to the specific and back to the general, a sort of ‘secret’ in terms carving methodology. In fact, it’s not a secret; it’s logical. Establish the big picture first with a big sweeping vision, refine after that, and then back to the ‘general’ in order to harmonize the whole. And it can be applied everywhere, even to clean out a building. Life is Art.

  380. metuselah January 10, 2012 at 9:26 pm #

    This is not your country. You are just an animal on their animal farm. And they want this animal farm to be a global animal farm. Are you an animal or are you a human being? If you are a human being, then prove it! Prove it to yourself and prove it to them.

  381. progress2conserve January 10, 2012 at 9:32 pm #

    “If you are a human being, then prove it! Prove it to yourself and prove it to them.” -met-
    You want I should blow sump’in up, Mr. Met?
    Huh? You want I should blow up something??
    ==================
    Look, metuselah, you’ve got me listening and looking. That’s about all I can do for you right now, besides vote for Ron Paul in the primary.
    Hey Hancock1863! Hancock!
    What do you think of Metuselah’s use of the Vatican as the driver of the Grand Unifying Conspiracy Theory – that we are looking for?

  382. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 9:36 pm #

    Procon, trouble comin’ for USA in 2012:
    Wade in the water, wade in the water children
    Wade in the water,
    God’s gonna trouble the water

  383. metuselah January 10, 2012 at 9:39 pm #

    Use use brain! They certainly used their brain against you. Don’t be a dumb animal. Think about what you can do to expose them and disenfranchise their franchises and monopolies, and act on it!

  384. k-dog January 10, 2012 at 9:41 pm #

    K-dog’s first post in a week. Hardly expected behavior from a presidential candidate but excusable for the time being. I am after all the only member of my campaign staff and I’ve been very busy learning how to make the k-dog for president website.
    This post is a test. ‘k-dog’ should appear in bold green letters for the first time when I post this. Clicking on them (if I added the link correctly) should jump you to the future site of the k-dog website.
    Right now there isn’t anything there but when I post again the website will be up. I have completed my learning curve of website nuts and bolts and now switch my focus to content authorship.
    K-dog the Sustainable People’s Party the peoples choice.

    I discern the distant sound of rebellion, a spirit that won’t be appeased by bytes of Disney-babble from the pandering snouts of Romney, Santorum, Gingrich, Paul or Obama. They are interested only in keeping a set of suicidal rackets going. All the yammer about “freedom” and “liberty” is hollow when the rule of law is AWOL. This ripe time is the natural moment for a true opposition to rise.

  385. progress2conserve January 10, 2012 at 9:42 pm #

    “What are you doing on CFN?”
    Searching for Truth, Asoka., searching for Truth.
    Oh, and annoying you.
    I go back and forth, as to which is the more important goal.
    ===============
    I can’t believe you haven’t had a single word to say about the absent Qshtik, A..

  386. metuselah January 10, 2012 at 9:43 pm #

    Use your brain!

  387. progress2conserve January 10, 2012 at 9:56 pm #

    “Use use brain! They certainly used their brain against you. Don’t be a dumb animal.”
    -met-
    Enough with the animal insults, met, jeeze.
    Next thing you know you’ll be calling me a swine or a catfish, or a oyster – - Oysters can NOT be Kosher, can they?
    “disenfranchise their franchises and monopolies, and act on it!” -met-
    Guess this means we’ve got to sell my wife’s XOM stock, huh? Damn, she’s gonna miss all those dividend checks.
    How about my cable and internet connection?
    That’s from a franchise too, you know?
    ==================================
    Look, Metuselah, you’ve been alive a long time now. What’s another 100 years to you? You’ve got to learn more patience – at least if you’re going to work with me.
    And I’m not trying to provoke you to a Terrible Vengeful Wrath, by the way – just asking for clarification, in a, hopefully-to-someone, humorous manner.

  388. Buck Stud January 10, 2012 at 9:56 pm #

    As a kid I used to read Sport magazine. One day, I came across a U.S Army ad with a laconic Green Beret figure sitting beside a wilderness fire. The ad read something like ” eat rainbow trout in the morning, rabbit for lunch, and rattlesnake for dinner”. Well, that’s all it took for me; I was going to enlist and be ‘special’ and one of the ‘elite’. Before doing that, though, my grandfather got a hold of me and stated that it was not all that wise to want to be elite, or special. In fact, he was downright contemptuous of the entire concept. My desire to enlist eventually waned, but I never really understood his opposition to being ‘one of the few’ until years later.
    It seems to me that Depression era individuals understood the value of the collective on a visceral level. The union movement, the demands of the Depression, the lack of a nursing home industry – all of these realities contributed to a distinct type of idiosyncratic American social consciousness. Once in a while, a person can still cross paths with one of these types from the older generation, but it is becoming increasingly rare. Instinctively, though, many people sense something amiss among the bombastic quest for mass celebrity status. More Woody Guthrie please, and less Jennifer Lopez.

  389. metuselah January 10, 2012 at 10:00 pm #

    Sorry, PC, that wasn’t meant as an insult. That was meant as a reference to George Orwell. Animal Farm and 1984 were two of his classics, and I think there’s a very good correlation between his novels and our current reality.

  390. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 10:05 pm #

    Re: Q’s death and your search for truth:
    Each death is an end and a beginning.
    Don’t pay too much attention to the end. It is an end to an old, rotten, miserable life style, and it is a great opportunity to begin a new life, not to commit the old mistakes. It is a beginning of an adventure. But because you cling to life and you don’t want to leave it – and it has to happen by the very nature of things – you fall unconscious.
    Almost everyone, except those few people who have become enlightened, dies unconsciously; hence they don’t know what death is, they don’t know its new beginning, the new dawn.
    Meditation is your own exploration.
    You are searching to know exactly what constitutes you: what is false in you and what is real in you. It is a tremendous journey from the false to the real, from the mortal to the immortal, from darkness to light. But when you come to the point of seeing the separation from the mind and the body, and yourself just as a witness, the experience of death is the same. You are not dying… a man who has meditated will die joyfully because he knows there is no death; the death was in his clinging with life.

  391. bubbleheadMarc January 10, 2012 at 10:06 pm #

    I just don’t have the patience to read the entire blog each week so I do miss a lot. And no, not all flattop wearers are jerks. I just have a problem with people who order high maintenance haircuts then let them go to seed. Sometimes I’ll concentrate on a particular style to try to improve what I’m doing. To me my entire job consists of trying to do exactly what the customer ordered. If you visit a number of barbers you should be able to find someone who will do what you want unless you’re ordering a haircut that you don’t have the hair for. My main advice is to wear your hair shorter as you get progressively balder, and as you get more bald, that is if you are, to remove the part from your hair and start to comb it straight back. If you like it short I’d recommend a shadow fade instead of a bald fade, because bald fades are high maintenance.
    In terms of racial theories I find the European causasoids to be curious from the standpoint that they obviously don’t believe their own shit [mythology & religion] anymore, which explains their curious attempted objectivity vis a vis the other races, hence the widespread enthusiasm for anthropological studies on college campuses throughout the western world. This sort of objectivity reveals that they are inherently deracinated themselves, and overly sure of themselves as well owing largely to their recent status as colonists throughout the third world, and moreover as developed countries surrounded by more traditional societies. So your concern that whites don’t stick up for themselves has some foundation in reallity, and doubtless stems from the smugness arising from that formerly superior status. And yes, we will get our asses handed to us, as indeed we already have on several occasions when this colonial mentality outlived its usefulness and got us into trouble when we underestimated our adversaries, a process which continues apace today as well. So we’re fucked. Maybe it won’t matter if the human race survives long enough to move to another planet. Of course by then several millenia of interbreeding may have homogenized us all to the extent that we all end up looking alike, or sort of light brown. Keep those third world immigrants coming! After all, we don’t have enough umemployment so let’s import some more!

  392. anti soak January 10, 2012 at 10:07 pm #

    Baruch, whose family owned slaves!
    I found this online…
    ‘The press has downplayed the fact that the script was criminally obtained. But not only did these so-called critics receive something that had been illegally acquired, the stolen product that they used to make their quiver of poison arrows was obsolete and had already been significantly revised.
    As Icon producer Steve McEveety tells me, the script “is not a true representation of the film. It was, and is, a work in progress, as any filmmaker would appreciate.”
    McEveety also notes that the folks at Icon “respect everyone’s right to their opinion about the film.” But “no one has a right to publicly critique a film that has not even been completed, let alone base their critique on an outdated version of the script which has been illegally obtained.”’

  393. anti soak January 10, 2012 at 10:15 pm #

    Why attempt to describe what Vlad looks like?
    The only poster on here [I assume] that you can
    rightly describe the looks of is YOU.

  394. progress2conserve January 10, 2012 at 10:17 pm #

    Awww. Asoka., I thought you were typing advice from the heart for me. But you weren’t.
    Cite your sources, man.
    http://www.osho.com/online-library-new-beginning-willingness-death-b98563ba-c15.aspx

  395. jammer January 10, 2012 at 10:17 pm #

    Wagelaborer,
    You describe elections as a circus yet you shill for Jill Stein. (I live in Massachusetts and voted for her when she ran for governor) Additionally, you have admitted to me on this site that you do indeed vote. So you clearly are in the category of “falling for it every time.” There is more than a whiff of cognitive dissonance in the air around you.

  396. rippedthunder January 10, 2012 at 10:22 pm #

    Asoka, Finally someone quotes the truth behind all life in our little microsphere. Let’s please drop the religious, political and racial bullshit. I thought this was a blog about sustainability. It has become a slur slingin’ shithole. I was gonna separate myself from this crap. But ” Just when I thought I was out, They pulled me back in!” Supernova anyone?
    “We are stardust”
    “Billion year old carbon”
    We are golden
    Caught in the devil’s bargain
    And we’ve got to get ourselves
    back to the garden”

  397. progress2conserve January 10, 2012 at 10:28 pm #

    “they are inherently deracinated themselves, and overly sure of themselves as well owing largely to their recent status as colonists throughout the third world…..So your concern that whites don’t stick up for themselves has some foundation in reality, and doubtless stems from the smugness arising from that formerly superior status. And yes, we will get our asses handed to us….”
    -the resident submariner, on European whites-
    That’s good stuff, Marc.

  398. messianicdruid January 10, 2012 at 10:29 pm #

    “People will be leaving the USA in droves soon, perhaps to avoid radiation sickness … and you will be left to get by as best as you can, clinging to your guns and your Bible.”
    Make your stand right where you are, there’s no where else to go.

  399. jammer January 10, 2012 at 10:34 pm #

    RT how be thee? Are you enjoying the balmy Bezerkshire winter? First winter in recent memory been able to continue to work outside this late in the season. I’m lovin it…

  400. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 10:51 pm #

    MD, I am not stupid. In the southwest I live three hours from an airport, two hours from an interstate, far from any population center that might be targeted, yet close to the Mexican border.
    You say “make your stand.” As far as I know, clouds of nuclear radiation cannot be fought. You simply die slowly from exposure. Staying in place to “make a stand” would be to commit suicide, which does not interest me.
    You say “there’s no where else to go.” In the event of a nuclear attack, I am gone … to the Andes (also far from any population center and far from Chavez’ Venezuela) … where I have everything in place to survive in style with papaya, mangoes, bananas, avocados, etc. and universal single payer health care for a one dollar co-pay with doctors trained in the USA.
    You stay. You make a stand. Do battle with invisible radiation clouds. Good luck.

  401. wsrcmhijt January 10, 2012 at 11:10 pm #

    slightly wife I was wrong Please forgive me since I do not in the air slightly so slightly on the line several hundred people I swear I am not into playing semi temper slightly into

    slightly wife I’m sorry I was wrong

    Today I did something to my favorite wife is mad at something . . . I think slightly later regret the good wife all the good he gave me slightly and I do not shit all people . . . Cheng Cheng You’re a big jerk . . .

    ; ;

  402. progress2conserve January 10, 2012 at 11:11 pm #

    “You stay. You make a stand. Do battle with invisible radiation clouds. Good luck.”
    -asoka.-
    Yeah, OK, asoka., flee.
    Can’t say as I really blame you.
    Good luck getting an airplane ticket after a nuclear attack on the US, though.
    As for me:
    In Dixieland, I’ll make my stand
    To live and die in Dixie.
    “American Trilogy” -elvis presley-






    I’ve never been much of an Elvis fan, I’m a little too young. But he got American Trilogy completely perfect.
    It’s another song that ought to make the hair on the back of your neck stand up, just a little bit, if you’ll really listen to it – and think about all the things that have brought the US to where we are, right now.

  403. turkle January 10, 2012 at 11:16 pm #

    Vlad has bitch tits.

  404. progress2conserve January 10, 2012 at 11:20 pm #






    Here’s a better HQ version.
    Be sure you listen through to the end, when it wraps back around to “The Battle Hymn of the Republic”
    OK, I’m done for the night.
    CF on, you CF’ers!

  405. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 11:28 pm #

    Yeah, OK, asoka., flee.
    Can’t say as I really blame you.
    ================
    I am not to blame for the madness. But I cannot deny it exists. Therefore, I looked for a rational response.
    Being on CFN for five years was not a waste of time. I was playing and entertaining my multitudes, but I was also absorbing information and preparing.
    I now have a workable Plan B.

  406. asoka. January 10, 2012 at 11:50 pm #

    CORRECTION
    Being on CFN for SEVEN years was not a waste of time. Only five years to go, if the internet lasts that long!

  407. malthus January 11, 2012 at 12:05 am #

    Dhaa. Or there is more than one Malthus, or just to see who would bite. Take your pick.

  408. old69 January 11, 2012 at 3:31 am #

    Money doesn’t run out, it is just a proxy for relationships between people, for rules and regulations between people. That is why the FED can print trillions and just hand it all out to banks, no problem, the system is rich enough to back it all up with its imaginary “work” and jobs that potentially could be expressed by all of the millions of idle people worldwide. That is why the “gold standard” would simply kill of the economy completely, it would create an artificial scarcity (just like all of the Resource Scarcity Doomster wish and want there to be, because by saying that everything is running out, OIL is running out, there are too many people, etc. what they are really saying is that since this is how I “objectively describe reality”, “reality becomes my description”, I will force reality to abide to my description: if everyone believes that this is reality, reality becomes exactly this since reality is defined by the consensus people have on how they interpret it and how they define it, from a description language to a command language). Money, as a proxy for human relationships is infinite, just like “work” could be infinite (but most work today is useless, not needed, is just fluff).
    No one is asking for the money from the wealthy, no one wants to take it away from them. That is what you think I want, but it is not, as far as I can see, and as far as I am concerned, they can keep their trillions, it makes no difference, it doesn’t even make a blip on the radar, it is irrelevant how much the rich have. It is not a limited resource, in fact it is the opposite, a Technological Economy creates money automatically, by the boatloads, there is no need to take it away from anyone. But the dominating ideologies (both right and left and green) love to “personalize” economic affairs, love to set people against each other as in who has more, who robbed this, the other guy is a freeloader, etc. never really talking about the structure, the large scale, really “objective structure” of the economy. It is very convenient to talk about people and their behavior and “who has more” then center the discussion on the real large scale structures of the Technological Economy: because if you did, you would have to admit that it kills way more jobs than in creates, it would imply the only possible solution : scott free handouts to all and huge public private projects.
    Anyways the “rich” have so much that even if they did give a large chunk of it away, it wouldn’t even make a blip on their radar, they wouldn’t even notice, we are talking about 100 trillion dollars worldwide that doesn’t know what to do at all, do you have any idea how much cash they now have after hogging it up for decades (but it is not their fault, nor did they really ask for it, but the system automatically simply gives the money out to the already rich. They have billions, how on earth can they even spend it ? after you spend 10 million dollars on luxury cars and houses they still have hundreds of millions, and they don’t even probably want that cash or give two c*cks and a d*ck about it anyways (but only as a status symbol, who has more just for fun).
    The system is set up automatically to create inequality, you don’t need 10 programmers, you need just one programmer who is very smart and who will work 20 hours a day, same for chip designers, biochemist, researchers, you name it, the system is not out to create jobs, but to eliminate as many as possible and hire only the best, the most “productive” and “competitive” (and rightly so, you would do the same thing) and those who will work the jobs of ten people or 20 hours a day, etc. This myth of job creation is totally false the invisible hand is just really the visible hand of getting as much a bang from a buck as possible and this implies the exact opposite of job creation: job destruction and hiring only the best. It goes without saying that out of a thousands Advance Services Information Workers only about a hundred are the best (oh yes, they deserve it and “worked hard for it” and nature was kind with them furnishing them with a top notch brain, I have seen it, there are people who are very quick and bright in math and chess games etc. nothing you can really do about it, it is pure inequality achieved from the outset, tough luck, oh but they say you can “work hard at it”, well this is false, the smart ones (or workaholics ?) are simply smart (or have no problem working 20 hours a day, etc.) the lesser ones are simply lesser no matter how much effort they put in, that is the nature of things, and the corporations and powers that be know this).
    So what are you going to do with the other 900 that are good but not “top” (or workaholics) ? tell them to go fly a kite ? tell them that the invisible hand of the market will hire them ? And especially if the top guns are working their best and their most efficiently, they are actually producing directly or indirectly for everyone given the huge amplifications and economies of scale the Technological Economy has structurally. Now extend this to hundreds of millions worldwide that need jobs and a house, do they all “have to work hard for it”, when the system needs “hard work” like a hole in the head, and the entire idea of “hard work” is totally obsolete and just a puny cultural psychological relic of the 18th century that serves to make the losers feel guilty as in blame the victims ? And anyways the more those few million “top notch workers” work hard, the more they are producing for everyone, they are, and this ideology is creating even greater amplifications and economies of scale, but especially huge profits for the capitalists.
    But it is all in vain, you will keep on saying, “it will never work”, vlad will say “blacks rape”, the other guy will say “don’t pay the welfare queens”, etc. etc. But what you say is actually what you want, you want it to be that way, just like everyone wants things to be exactly how they describe it, hence they reinforce the system as it is, they directly, by saying that it is “objectively like this”, really mean “we will make it so that it will always be objectively like this”, hence not a description language, but a “command language”, etc.
    Also, all of these debates are based on guessing what the effects of some social rules and politics are on large populations of independent free wills: obviously there is and will never be any way to know, free will really means totally unpredictable, totally without any possible pattern or rule, actually it really means whatever you predict, whatever logic you think will happen or is operating, I will contradict it just because, for fun, just to demonstrate my free will, to show you that I can do anything at all, and especially to demolish your imaginary “objective society” since society is never objective but just a set of quirky, pure subjectivities expressing themselves and contrasting and breaking as many rules and contradicting as many possible discernible patterns as possible: that which will always break any pattern as soon as a pattern becomes apparent.
    One thing I think many people are totally unaware of is how the last 100 – 200 years were so extremely exceptional, how they were such a truly one time quirk combination of events that will never repeat again: first the discovery and application Electricity, then of OIL (huge amount of free energy), then the automobile, then airplanes, then TV, then computers, etc. All of that technical progress in such a short time, all of those huge game changers creating all of that new work and “growth” and consumerism, etc. This is where the myth of Innovation, Research and Education “creating jobs” really comes from: the standard economic model thinks that (or pretends ?) we will go through similar cycles all over again, but they are totally insane to think this: how on earth can there ever be another innovation so incredible as the discovery and application of Electricity or OIL or the automobile or jet planes, space travel, you name it!
    Of course all of those new inventions and innovations created huge growth and millions of new jobs, but it can’t ever be repeated again, no matter what, no matter how many new tablet designs or freckled face punk facebook web pages you invent. No way jose’, but they keep on insisting in this miracle formula, that there are all of these innovations and game changers and breakthroughs and “killer applications” that will create entire new sectors with millions of jobs. Wishful thinking, no, the only thing you can do is decide how to apply the technology you have, since 90 % of the fairy tale story of technology has been achieved and it is mostly over now, now it is all politics and deciding what to do with what you have.
    And what you have to do is build trillions of skyscrapers, rockets to mars and give out free salaries and cheap rents for huge luxury houses (to get the McMansion building economy running up again) to all.
    But all of these debates are like debates between lawyers, everyone will always find a way around any other position, everyone will always defend a position, no matter how irrelevant, wrong or crazy, etc. After all the USA invaded Irak on no logical position whatsoever and everyone defended it, Hitler turned an entire nation into insanity and no one said anything, etc. It is all a debate between lawyers, no matter what anyone says, there will always be a perfect response that will contradict the other party perfectly.
    Now, go on, say that “on the paper it looks good but it will never work” (what you really mean is that you and millions of others will never make it work, don’t want to make it work and will always do everything they can to not make it work, will say that “objective reality” works according to your (or anyone’s else random ideology) ideology, etc.).

  409. old69 January 11, 2012 at 3:32 am #

    That was from:
    http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=177835
    in response to:
    And I say you are forgetting human behaviorisms on a social level. On paper your way looks fine and should work but, reality is that it will lead to a tightly controlled country. Controlled by the very people that you want to take from. Does this country forbid people from leaving? Does this country tell you where to live and what work you are to do?
    if you want to be a carpenter does this country say no, you are going to be an educator or street sweeper? Once you demand such release of wealth from the wealthy they will be given much much more cohntrol. They will make demands and those demands will have to be honored or the wealthy will destroy the wealth. Most wealth is tied up only in files not just hard assets. Take those files away and the wealth is gone. Close up plants ,burn them down and not file for insurance etc etc. The wealthy will destroy what they have before surrendering it. So either way, your way will not work. Either the wealthy will control even more or all will go into worse chaos. The latter would be the best for all concerned, even though many will lose.

  410. tegmark January 11, 2012 at 3:46 am #

    Some correction for your thesis:
    Money doesn’t run out, it is just a proxy for relationships between people, for rules and regulations between people. That is why the FED can print trillions and just hand it all out to banks, no problem, the system is rich enough to back it all up with its imaginary “work” and jobs that potentially could be expressed by all of the millions of idle people worldwide. That is why the “gold standard” would simply kill off the economy completely, it would create an artificial scarcity (just like all of the Resource Scarcity Doomster wish and want there to be, because by saying that everything is running out, OIL is running out, there are too many people, etc. what they are really saying is that since this is how I “objectively describe reality”, “reality becomes my description”, I will force reality to abide to my description: if everyone believes that this is reality, reality becomes exactly this since reality is defined by the consensus people have on how they interpret it and how they define it, from a description language to a command language). Money, as a proxy for human relationships is infinite, just like “work” could be infinite (but most work today is useless, not needed, is just fluff).
    No one is asking for the money from the wealthy, no one wants to take it away from them. That is what you think I want, but it is not, as far as I can see, and as far as I am concerned, they can keep their trillions, it makes no difference, it doesn’t even make a blip on the radar, it is irrelevant how much the rich have. It is not a limited resource, in fact it is the opposite, a Technological Economy creates money automatically, by the boatloads, there is no need to take it away from anyone. But the dominating ideologies (both right and left and green) love to “personalize” economic affairs, love to set people against each other as in who has more, who robbed this, the other guy is a freeloader, etc. never really talking about the structure, the large scale, really “objective structure” of the economy. It is very convenient to talk about people and their behavior and “who has more” then center the discussion on the real large scale structures of the Technological Economy: because if you did, you would have to admit that it kills way more jobs than in creates, it would imply the only possible solution : scott free handouts to all and huge public private projects.
    Anyways the “rich” have so much that even if they did give a large chunk of it away, it wouldn’t even make a blip on their radar, they wouldn’t even notice, we are talking about 100 trillion dollars worldwide that doesn’t know what to do at all, do you have any idea how much cash they now have after hogging it up for decades (but it is not their fault, nor did they really ask for it, but the system automatically simply gives the money out to the already rich. They have billions, how on earth can they even spend it ? after you spend 10 million dollars on luxury cars and houses they still have hundreds of millions, and they don’t even probably want that cash or give two c*cks and a d*ck about it anyways (but only as a status symbol, who has more just for fun).
    The system is set up automatically to create inequality, you don’t need 10 programmers, you need just one programmer who is very smart and who will work 20 hours a day, same for chip designers, biochemist, researchers, you name it, the system is not out to create jobs, but to eliminate as many as possible and hire only the best, the most “productive” and “competitive” (and rightly so, you would do the same thing) and those who will work the jobs of ten people or 20 hours a day, etc. This myth of job creation is totally false the invisible hand is just really the visible hand of getting as much a bang from a buck as possible and this implies the exact opposite of job creation: job destruction and hiring only the best. It goes without saying that out of a thousand Advance Services Information Workers only about a hundred are the best (oh yes, they deserve it and “worked hard for it” and nature was kind with them furnishing them with a top notch brain, I have seen it, there are people who are very quick and bright in math and chess games etc. nothing you can really do about it, it is pure inequality achieved from the outset, tough luck, oh but they say you can “work hard at it”, well this is false, the smart ones (or workaholics ?) are simply smart (or have no problem working 20 hours a day, etc.) the lesser ones are simply lesser no matter how much effort they put in, that is the nature of things, and the corporations and powers that be know this).
    So what are you going to do with the other 900 that are good but not “top” (or workaholics) ? tell them to go fly a kite ? tell them that the invisible hand of the market will hire them ? And especially if the top guns are working their best and their most efficiently, they are actually producing directly or indirectly for everyone given the huge amplifications and economies of scale the Technological Economy has structurally. Now extend this to hundreds of millions worldwide that need jobs and a house, do they all “have to work hard for it”, when the system needs “hard work” like a hole in the head, and the entire idea of “hard work” is totally obsolete and just a puny cultural psychological relic of the 18th century that serves to make the losers feel guilty as in blame the victims ? And anyways the more those few million “top notch workers” work hard, the more they are producing for everyone, they are, and this ideology is creating even greater amplifications and economies of scale, but especially huge profits for the capitalists.
    But it is all in vain, you will keep on saying, “it will never work”, vlad will say “blacks rape”, the other guy will say “don’t pay the welfare queens”, etc. etc. But what you say is actually what you want, you want it to be that way, just like everyone wants things to be exactly how they describe it, hence they reinforce the system as it is, they directly, by saying that it is “objectively like this”, really mean “we will make it so that it will always be objectively like this”, hence not a description language, but a “command language”, etc.
    Also, all of these debates are based on guessing what the effects of some social rules and politics are on large populations of independent free wills: obviously there is and will never be any way to know, free will really means totally unpredictable, totally without any possible pattern or rule, actually it really means whatever you predict, whatever logic you think will happen or is operating, I will contradict it just because, for fun, just to demonstrate my free will, to show you that I can do anything at all, and especially to demolish your imaginary “objective society” since society is never objective but just a set of quirky, pure subjectivities expressing themselves and contrasting and breaking as many rules and contradicting as many possible discernible patterns as possible: that which will always break any pattern as soon as a pattern becomes apparent.
    One thing I think many people are totally unaware of is how the last 100 – 200 years were so extremely exceptional, how they were such a truly one time quirk combination of events that will never repeat again: first the discovery and application Electricity, then of OIL (huge amount of free energy), then the automobile, then airplanes, then TV, then computers, etc. All of that technical progress in such a short time, all of those huge game changers creating all of that new work and “growth” and consumerism, etc. This is where the myth of Innovation, Research and Education “creating jobs” really comes from: the standard economic model thinks that (or pretends ?) we will go through similar cycles all over again, but they are totally insane to think this: how on earth can there ever be another innovation so incredible as the discovery and application of Electricity or OIL or the automobile or jet planes, space travel, you name it!
    Of course all of those new inventions and innovations created huge growth and millions of new jobs, but it can’t ever be repeated again, no matter what, no matter how many new tablet designs or freckled face punk facebook web pages you invent. No way jose’, but they keep on insisting in this miracle formula, that there are all of these innovations and game changers and breakthroughs and “killer applications” that will create entire new sectors with millions of jobs. Wishful thinking, no, the only thing you can do is decide how to apply the technology you have, since 90 % of the fairy tale story of technology has been achieved and it is mostly over now, now it is all politics and deciding what to do with what you have.
    And what you have to do is build trillions of skyscrapers, rockets to mars and give out free salaries and cheap rents for huge luxury houses (to get the McMansion building economy running up again) to all.
    But all of these debates are like debates between lawyers, everyone will always find a way around any other position, everyone will always defend a position, no matter how irrelevant, wrong or crazy, etc. After all the USA invaded Irak on no logical position whatsoever and everyone defended it, Hitler turned an entire nation into insanity and no one said anything, etc. It is all a debate between lawyers, no matter what anyone says, there will always be a perfect response that will contradict the other party perfectly.
    Now, go on, say that “on the paper it looks good but it will never work” (what you really mean is that you and millions of others will never make it work, don’t want to make it work and will always do everything they can to not make it work, will say that “objective reality” works according to your (or anyone’s else random ideology) ideology, etc.).

  411. tegmark January 11, 2012 at 3:57 am #