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The Revolutionary Moment

     
     I overheard a conversation between two employees over at the Price Chopper supermarket last week. (The Price Chopper logo is a picture of a Mercury dime with an ax cleaving into Mercury’s head; in other words, an ax murder.) The supermarket employees were both middle-aged women.
     First: “I’m going home to a cold house.”
     Second: “Why don’t you turn up the heat?”
     First: “I don’t have no money for fuel.”
     Meanwhile, 175 miles south in Manhattan somewhere, Lloyd Blankfein’s personal shopper is trying to figure out whether to buy Lloyd’s favorite niece a Fabergé egg themed Memories of Azov or a Jaguar XK convertible. 
     Maybe the catch here is that the anonymous supermarket workers are only freezing this Christmas season. If they were freezing and hungry, it might be a different story. But, working in a supermarket, a person might find a way to cadge a few tidbits here and there (whoops, we broke a bag of Cheetos on the loading dock) – the catch there being you could get fired for stealing the merchandise. O sorry nation!
     But don’t fear! The president and congress are looking out for you, O nation of freezing supermarket employees (and flummoxed personal shoppers, and wily mega-bank CEOs)! They have fashioned a deal that we might call Stim-u-rama. Everybody gets a tax cut! Everybody! Not just Lloyd B but all you toiling and moiling shelf-stockers and check-out cashiers. Plus, you will get a reduction of several percentage points in your payroll deductions – a redoo in the dedoo! –  which must be good for at least one Justin Bieber action figure (if there are any left!) in these waning days of the Yuletide consumer frenzy.
     Meanwhile moreover, CBS 60-Minutes showed a segment Sunday night on the rip-roaring economic miracle of Brazil – “a little bit bigger than the USA geographically and loaded with natural resources” – as if to rub it in that we have become a sorry nation of losers to a bunch of no-account beach layabouts. As usual, the 60-Minutes reportage was full of lies and misrepresentations, for instance, that Brazil’s offshore oil discoveries are so huge and so easy to extract that they will save industrial civilization.
      The sights and smells of Christmas usually put me in a mellow frame of mind. But this year there’s an acid edge in the mulled wine, an off-taste in the plum pudding, a disconcerting odor of rot in the piped-in holiday potpourri.
     Obviously, the government tax deal along with the Federal Reserve’s recent QE announcements represent a mighty effort to stuff some spendable lucre into this shuddering, doddering beast of  the American economy. The people running things don’t know what else to do. We find ourselves in a decelerating system, hopelessly over-complex (and scheming, even, to add additional layers of complexity!), with money-making activity shifted from producing things of value into a runaway Wall Street machine dedicated to something-for-nothing rentier exploitation of interest rate differentials, arbitrages, short-sales, outright swindles, and other activities based on no creation of value whatsoever. While capital piles up in the salons of Central Park West and the cigar cellars of the Hamptons, social capital hemorrhages every day as masses of formerly-working Americans forego the acquisition of any useful skills, or forget old ones, or opt to lose themselves in the transports of methadrine, “reality” TV, and tattoo art. To put it perhaps a bit indelicately, our shit is falling apart.
     It’s fascinating that in the background of all this the price of oil is fibrillating around $90-a-barrel – and nobody is paying any attention to that. We seem to have forgotten the lesson from back in 2008 that when oil gets above the $80 mark, things in this land of Happy Motoring and the Warehouse-on-wheels don’t work so well. No wonder President Obama and congress are trying to stuff the country full of sugar plums just to get past the horror of a Christmas holiday when not a few working people will be freezing in their homes, if they have homes.
     And in not too many days ahead we’ll get a peek at those Christmas bonuses landing in the laps of Lloyd Blankfein’s minions at Goldman Sachs and the rest of the geniuses in the engine room of prosperity.
     When I was already a grown-up young newspaper reporter thirty-odd years ago, I never dreamed I’d see a revolutionary moment here in the USA – even with old Nixie pulling one fast one after another, before heading off to that helicopter for his last wave to the people who elected him. Now, I’m not so sure.
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My new novella, A Christmas Orphan, is available for purchase through Northshire Bookstore.  

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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency, and Too Much Magic: Wishful Thinking, Technology and the Fate of the Nation. His novels include World Made By Hand, The Witch of Hebron, Maggie Darling — A Modern Romance, The Halloween Ball, an Embarrassment of Riches, and many others. He has published three novellas with Water Street Press: Manhattan Gothic, A Christmas Orphan, and The Flight of Mehetabel.

716 Responses to “The Revolutionary Moment” Subscribe

  1. nothing December 13, 2010 at 9:49 am #

    Jimbo! You make me laugh to keep from crying. If you want to protect yourself and do your own Quantitative Easing at home, there are some tips at http://www.thenothingstore.com

  2. Leibowitz Society December 13, 2010 at 9:51 am #

    As JHK points out, our nation is on the verge of falling apart, be it socially, economically or politically. When we go, unfortunately, we’re going to take most of the world with us and be plunged into a new Dark Age that will likely take centuries to recover from.
    The Leibowitz Society is dedicated to preserving civilization’s essential knowledge so that people can learn from our mistakes and rebuild once the dust settles and the Long Emergency has ended. We need people who love learning and knowledge and know that our civilization is on the way out. Visit us at http://leibowitzsocity.blogspot.com.

  3. Leibowitz Society December 13, 2010 at 9:52 am #

    My apologies — it’s http://leibowitzsociety.blogspot.com.

  4. CaribouBarbie December 13, 2010 at 9:55 am #

    Have Tweeted and Shared — so long as we’ve got the Internets to do it!

  5. The Mook December 13, 2010 at 9:57 am #

    If there was going to be a revolution, Lloyd Blankfein would have been in the ground by now. What do you think the Wall Streeters use in place of the word pussies when they talk about us?

  6. Lynn Shwadchuck December 13, 2010 at 9:58 am #

    You’re right Jim, heating oil (& gas) may well be the first domino to fall. Certainly out here where we’re living on a shoestring in the woods, my friends and I are bundled up in multi layers of fleece and rationing our firewood for the latter part of the day when we’re tired of having cold fingers. I’m prepared to have heat become my biggest monthly expense, so I’ve been making room for that for years by seeing how well I can live on less and less. You can share food with neighbors, but when they’re freezing it’s a big decision to invite them to share your warmer space. Tensions will definitely mount. I was just watching a video interview with U.S. Military guys in charge of climate change mitigation, not the kind of mitigation that slows the change, but the kind that keeps freezing people from breaking into warm monster homes. There’s no denial in that department.
    Lynn
    http://www.10in10diet.com/
    For a small footprint and a small grocery bill

  7. zerozero December 13, 2010 at 9:58 am #

    First! Back in college we called it “60 biased minutes”, never watched it again. As a nation, how we tolerate this years round of X-mas bonus’s should be telling.

  8. GAbert December 13, 2010 at 10:00 am #

    A revolutionary moment? Perhaps. A political revolution? Doubtful.
    Too many people either have too much to lose or are acting as though they do because it hasn’t occurred to them that they’re losers. As a consequence America shall continue to be ruled by that shrinking minority that owns it; at least for a little longer anyway.
    For the last two decades, those who can; have invested in China and India to realize the best returns. Legions of economic talking heads, when interviewed, smugly proclaim that China and India are where much of the world’s future economic growth is to occur. But is that really the way it’s going to be?
    http://margewargis.wordpress.com/

  9. Bobby December 13, 2010 at 10:02 am #

    Ahh… Based on “A Canticle for Leibowitz!” A very good read. I read it in 1970. Assigned by a hip history prof.

  10. Cash December 13, 2010 at 10:03 am #

    Vlad, about your post Dec 12, 4:10 pm
    Bravo man. I’ve ranted and raved on this issue but you said it more clearly and more forcefully than I ever could. I disagree with a lot of what you say but on this issue you hit the nail on the head.
    Especially this:
    The Market? Smith and his followers have always underestimated Businessmen. They talk to each other – they are people who can plan and cooperate. They can overcome the impersonal force, the invisible hand. – Vlad
    Well said.
    You betcha they can overcome that invisible hand. Go work at the Fed or the SEC. They could use some clear headed guidance. Just stay away from the white supremacy stuff.
    One thing though about the invisible hand and where, you could argue, it fell apart by itself. Following the dictates of this invisible hand, the executive or managerial class offshored huge chunks of productive industry to slave wage countries. Each CEO did what he figured he had to do to keep his company competitive with others in his industry.
    The problem is that when they all offshored they succeeded in laying off the consumers they all intended to sell to ie the North American middle or working class. While this strategy works in the short run, earning CEOs mind blowing compensation, it’s really hard to see how it works in the long run. How do these companies prosper if their intended market becomes progressively more and more impoverished.
    Oh wait, I forgot, CEOs don’t give a shit about the long run. They make enough in one year to become as rich as Croesus.
    This is what I would call market failure. A small, incestuous group, each scratching the back of the other, all saying the same thing, that you have to pay colossal piles of loot to CEOs (ie themselves) to attract the “best and the brightest” thus perpetuating one of the foulest, most stinking lies to come out of that den of scum and villainy (to quote Obewan Kenobi): Wall Street.
    Well, as you might say Vlad, they talk to each other, they overcome the invisible hand.

  11. zen17 December 13, 2010 at 10:04 am #

    time to ensure two things
    1-the body is working properly – get rid of the chemicals and poisons in the food you are eating
    2-the mind is calm and clear – to react and adapt to the coming changes.
    Only then will we be ready to deal with what is to come. Take care of yourself and all the rest will sort itself out one way or another.
    http://wanderingsagewisdom.blogspot.com

  12. The Mook December 13, 2010 at 10:05 am #

    2011 economic cycle : recovery in progress (according to statistics), speculators drive oil price higher, economy stalls, oil price falls, economic recovery in progress (according to statistics, speculators drive oil price higher, economy stalls, oil prices fall,……..on and on. Did I mention Wall St. types make tons of money at each step?

  13. kori December 13, 2010 at 10:06 am #

    Did anyone watch Bernie Sanders speech? I loved his rant on China. The stats about more manufacturing jobs in the US before the war then now is obscene. And we think that China’s economy will continue to steam ahead, how, are they all going to be consuming everything they themselves make? Apparently Apple stores in China have a marketing campaign, that says “Designed by Apple in California, Made for China”!!!

  14. The Mook December 13, 2010 at 10:09 am #

    Sounds like the same losers who think they are Republican, i.e., rich.

  15. The Walking Dead! December 13, 2010 at 10:09 am #

    Good lord, I just finished The Long Emergency and would rather it happen than be dragged on and on! Do we stock up and buy guns & ammo?
    What a crappy world I am giving to my 9 year old son, at least he knows how to garden, ride a bike and shoot a bow and arrow!
    Thanks a lot Jim for taking the last small piece of hope I had! I enjoyed giving it up to you.

  16. James Crow December 13, 2010 at 10:14 am #

    The assumption that those controlling the economy “don’t understand” or “don’t know what they’re doing” or that they “have run out of ideas” is absurd. The banksters created this particular financial crisis (along with the all of the other created financial crises throughout the history of the United States). There will be no revolution or rioting or fighting in the streets here in the US. Have you not seen what happens to protesters who are unlucky enough to be beaten/arrested/subdued by our military police? Anyone who would risk the consequences of fomenting unrest or participating in same is a fool or woefully uninformed as to their likely fate. Nothing is going to happen “all of a sudden” such as a societal collapse. Little by little, bit by bit is how the banksters move forward. Today is never that much different or worse than yesterday, this week is about the same as last week. The changes made are subtle but never-ending. Those in control never take their eyes off the prize, their agenda never sleeps. Sure prepare all you want for possible change or the long emergency that never makes an entrance. Observe the elite who recently engineered the death of the Gulf of Mexico and the slow death of the population of the Gulf Coast. If there is a “Long Emergency” it will be because it has been set up to happen that way by plan. Not because multi-billion dollar corporations “didn’t pay attention” to peak oil. No one can prove “peak oil” either way in reality. You can believe in your god, or peak oil, or obamageddon or anything you like. It is what you know that counts.

  17. Solar Guy December 13, 2010 at 10:14 am #

    Dig 4′-5′ down and fill it with sand and pex tubing. Insulate.
    Pour your concrete floor with pex tubing (a radiant floor). Insulate your building well.
    Put your solar thermal collectors facing South either flat plates or evacuated tubes. Or in my case.. both.
    During the summer months when you have excellent solar radiation heat your underground sandbox up to ~ 150° or so. That mass will be the equivalent of millions of BTUs.
    In the winter, continue to use your collectors to heat the floor but also take from your stored energy harvest.
    Now tell me this won’t work.
    And then come kill me and kick me out when TSHTF and your cold.
    Cheers,
    Solar Guy

  18. Cash December 13, 2010 at 10:21 am #

    Good analysis.
    I would add somewhere in there: the Fed prints wads of money.
    Does Wall Street “make” tons of money at each step? I would say Wall Street “steals” tons of money at each step. Legally of course.

  19. Smokyjoe December 13, 2010 at 10:24 am #

    The working poor and former middle-class blamed Obama in 2010, just as they did Bush in 2008. When they see that America’s plutocrats are the real villains…look out and hire some private security.
    By the way, JHK in Price Chopper is just too funny a vision. Ginsberg’s “A Supermarket in California” sprang to mind (I’m a lit geek) and I had my ROFLMAO moment. Here goes:
    “In my hungry fatigue, and shopping for images, I went into the neon fruit supermarket, dreaming of your enumerations! What peaches and what penumbras! Whole families shopping at night! Aisles full of husbands! Wives in theavocados, babies in the tomatoes!”

  20. orbit7er December 13, 2010 at 10:26 am #

    Finally NPR over the weekend actually had a story
    about the rising gasoline prices which they just noticed are almost above $3 per gallon.
    Not a mention of peak oil in the whole story,
    primarily an interview with some “oil expert” who
    gave the usual hand-waving explanations for the
    gas price rise. He also discounted JPMorgan, Goldman-Sachs and other commodity investors
    projections that oil will hit $100 per barrel.
    By what means that would happen except further
    demand collapse this “expert” did not mention.
    The only interesting salient fact he did proffer is
    that US oil demand in terms of dollars (not oil
    quantities) has been slowly shrinking.
    This story was then followed by a atory about the
    “Happy Motoring” savior of electric cars and the
    problems with lithium for all those batteries.
    No mention of course that the new wonderful and
    fantastically expensive electric personal cars take as much energy as a house!
    Further delusions were Obama / Wimpocrat plans
    for 1 million electric cars by 2015 as if that
    will solve anything.
    Again, where does the US get the energy for 1 million more houses worth of electricity consumption.
    The Corporate Media, including NPR continue to
    be blissfully ignorant of peak oil it seems…

  21. Lynn Shwadchuck December 13, 2010 at 10:29 am #

    You are so right. The U.S. military has unrest and population migration high on its list. Watch this interview regarding its readiness for defending the nation (read: the owners) in times of ‘instability’ caused by climate change.






  22. sprezzatura December 13, 2010 at 10:33 am #
    "a disconcerting odor of rot in the piped-in holiday potpourri"

    That’s funny – ‘pouuri’ means ‘rotten’.

  23. empirestatebuilding December 13, 2010 at 10:34 am #

    The article in the NY Times yesterday about the super secret masters of the derivative markets should have been enough to have the people storming the Bastille this morning.
    But of course it wasn’t.
    The poor woman in Price Chopper who is freezing ought to have read about the town in Sweden that is recycling garbage and burning wood pellets to heat the homes and to run the buses.
    Meanwhile over in The Land of The Free, the wage slaves freeze and bitch about Obama.
    Aimlow Joe was here.
    http:/www.aimlow.com

  24. sprezzatura December 13, 2010 at 10:34 am #

    That’s ‘pourri’. (Dang – why no Preview or Edit?)

  25. ozone December 13, 2010 at 10:37 am #

    JHK sez:
    “It’s fascinating that in the background of all this the price of oil is fibrillating around $90-a-barrel – and nobody is paying any attention to that. We seem to have forgotten the lesson from back in 2008 that when oil gets above the $80 mark, things in this land of Happy Motoring and the Warehouse-on-wheels don’t work so well. No wonder President Obama and congress are trying to stuff the country full of sugar plums just to get past the horror of a Christmas holiday when not a few working people will be freezing in their homes, if they have homes.”
    I’m also astonished to find that the “too-horrifying-to-voice” prices of energy and resources are being neglected(?) in the press.
    Them sugar-plums ain’t gonna get it when the “folks” get cold and hungry (in large enough numbers to be dangerous, natch’).
    We’re truly becoming the mushroom-people…

  26. walt December 13, 2010 at 10:38 am #

    It’s harder to imagine a less politically-engaged citizenry than America’s. What public squares would they take over? What armories would they seize? What crucial radio and TV stations would they capture? Let’s face it: the Kunstler nightmare of a country of overfed dolts living on Cheetohs and Bud Lite is not going to revolt anywhere, anytime.
    What will happen, I suspect, is a collapse that’s already started, that is too powerful in itself to guide or mitigate. It’s analogous to the climate-change crisis, whose looming specter we barely acknowledge in our petty political squabbles. What we don’t know is exactly when, where and how. Maybe in five years. Maybe in 20 or 30. But it’s coming.
    I won’t mourn the loss of this civilization if I live long enough to see its demise. We’re a nasty species intent on doing as much harm to the planet before the inevitable wipe-out phase. Nightmares can be interesting, of course, which is one reason we gather here.

  27. ozone December 13, 2010 at 10:41 am #

    Ps.
    Toiling and moiling! perfect

  28. pennohio December 13, 2010 at 10:44 am #

    I have to agree with what James Crow wrote. I keep telling people that we’re in the Second Depression. We’re reliving eighty years ago. Try to imagine what it was like on December 13, 1930. I’m sure that people were saying that “things are going to get better”. The government was fumbling around trying to do something to get the economy back on track. The “rich” were merrily living life as before because, even though they may have lost money on paper, they still had enough that it didn’t affect their lifestyle. The middle class were affected more, but day in and day out, it was a slow process downhill.
    The economy isn’t going to fall off a cliff overnight. There will be ups and downs and people will still get up in the morning, do whatever they’ve been doing during the day, and going to bed at night…that is except for the people working the night shift!
    The only difference that I see between 1930 and 2010 is that I can’t foresee a 1939, 1940, or 1941 coming along to pull us out of the economic doldrums.

  29. Glensufi December 13, 2010 at 10:48 am #

    Solar Guy,
    Pretty much right on re new construction, sadly it’s been very easy and extremely cost effective to build nearly zero energy buildings for decades. Lots of not very good reasons why that hasn’t happened but that’s another longer conversation. The real problem now is retrofitting so much poorly designed existing housing stock, not so easy to do that.

  30. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown December 13, 2010 at 10:53 am #

    > The only difference that I see between 1930 and 2010 is that I can’t foresee a 1939, 1940, or 1941 coming along to pull us out of the economic doldrums.
    You never know… WW3 has a certain ring to it… or are we up to 4 or 5 now?

  31. Bustedcelt December 13, 2010 at 10:57 am #

    There will never be a revolution in the US! Can anyone imagine the woman in the story joining a cell of revolutionaries and manning the barricades? She is isolated (as we all are) — even cut off from political representation. Her only choice is to maintain an address so she can hope to remain employed. Otherwise the only manning she’ll do is a sleeping bag under an overpass. Just using some of the words I’ve included in this comment can cause arrest and imprisonment here in our land of the free. Patriot Act anyone?

  32. asoka December 13, 2010 at 10:58 am #

    One of the great things about the United States of America (besides Obama) is that we have freedom of movement.
    You can choose to live in the north, where the temperatures are below freezing and you have to go home to a cold house, or you can choose to move. We have that freedom.
    You could decide, for example, to live in the southwest, someplace like southern New Mexico, one of the poorest and cheapest places to live in the United States, and it is 66 degrees and sunny there today.
    With a small (700 sq. ft.) simple adobe house and 330 days of sun a year, much of your heat can come from the flywheel effect of adobe construction combined with passive solar design.
    http://www.adobebuilder.com/passive-solar-home-book.html

  33. Al Klein December 13, 2010 at 11:04 am #

    Well, well, all this doom and gloom! Now I have something really inspiring to report! Watching a NatGeo show last night, a commercial from Chrysler comes on. Actually, an advert for their new Jeep model. The new Jeep “Black Ops” model! Damn! For all you guys out there who are too old to go to Iraq or Afghanistan and waste some ragheads, now you can get yourself some kickass wheels and imagine you’re in black ops! WTF! I just don’t know where to begin. What are they thinking? Are we a nation of morons?

  34. seb December 13, 2010 at 11:12 am #

    I did feel incited to riot by this week’s post, no kidding. I have always tried to anger the government with my blog about how to make methamphetamine, and that reminds me: it is not spelled Methadrine, it is spelled Methedrine. I would like it spelled correctly so I can read the word and experience the triggering effect from properly matching the imprinted key in my brain.
    Overall, my criticism of the post is that it was too short.
    Does revolution always involve riots? Isn’t reading blogs and commenting counter-revolutionary? Are we really too sophisticated to put our lives on the line, we are really tramps and hoboes-in-waiting? We think sticking it to the man is for fools?
    Well, that’s a problem. They got a whole other world in New York (that’s where they call it Methedrine. Sadly, it’s a trade name). They can’t think of the world outside.
    They got a new song:
    Cocktail party on the street
    Bedbugs uptown
    Shmack de shmack
    I can’t give it away on Seventh Avenue
    This town
    has been wearin’ tatters.
    -Rolling Stones
    Can Kunstler organize anybody? What’s wrong with this picture? Of course he thinks New York is pulling the strings. He lives around there!
    The next time you do a book tour, how about stopping in San Diego? I want to talk to you.
    No, I just want to stand there, tongue-tied. That’s what happened with Ozzie.
    “Yes? Something to say? No? That’s what I thought. That’s exactly what I thought.”

  35. progressorconserve December 13, 2010 at 11:16 am #

    Good stuff, JHK; thank you for our weekly serving of gloom and doom. And you are in large part correct – except I’d argue about that revolution thing.
    I don’t see that happening – and not so much because of the police forces with their paramilitary trappings that would line up against it.
    We are so hopelessly brainwashed as a population – and seemingly in 300,000,000 different directions.
    Even on this discussion thread – united under the umbrella of peak oil – we can’t agree on a single necessary step.
    Next week add some more cold cashiers to the mix.
    One would look at the 400 TIMES and growing income difference between her income and that of *her* CEO – and say, “Wow, I’m glad free market capitalism gives success to those who earn it!
    And I’m really glad my total taxes are higher than his so he can enjoy his wealth.”
    One would say, “It’s Obermmurs fault – those “death panels” that he had passed are soo expensive.”
    Another would say, “We need more immigrants – I could let one of them have my job so I could draw unemployment in my cold apartment.”
    But none of them would vote.
    And none of them will revolt.
    Now, where is the key to the paradigm shifter?

  36. seb December 13, 2010 at 11:16 am #

    Whoops. It’s spelled OZZY. I have the book.

  37. Al Klein December 13, 2010 at 11:21 am #

    There is a very simple calculus to our situation. A nation rewards those whom it values. Clearly, we do not value producers of things since we don’t pay them very well. Alternatively, we lavish largess upon those who move money around and play increasingly complex and inscrutable financial games. The reason this has been allowed to happen is that the populace has developed a hankering for unearned riches, whether they be through gambling or investment (which nowadays is just another form of gambling). As a result, there has been an implicit quid pro quo: I won’t say anything about your scam if you don’t say anything about mine. Perhaps not that criminal. Perhaps more like I won’t say anything about your gig being unsustainable if you don’t point out that mine is unsustainable. Of course, the problem is that even if the two parties can agree on the quid pro quo, that doesn’t make the circumstances sustainable. Which is where we find ourselves today. Put more bluntly, we’ve bullshitted ourselves into perdition. I don’t know what the solution to this is. But whatever, I’m pretty sure it involves some serious pain.

  38. marcus December 13, 2010 at 11:25 am #

    There will be no revolution. Any attempt at organizing will be handled by the Media as kooks, terrorists, or commies, and handled by the State like the Branch Dravidians.
    The desperately (20-30%) poor will be lined up in Disney-like bread lines, and the remaining terrified former middle-class will be thankful to keep shelter and food.
    There may have been a chance 40 years ago to form some sort of opposition, but with the reading and comprehension level now in this country, there is no chance of basic understanding of the problem.
    GE, BofA, Goldman Sachs, Federal Reserve, POTUS, Congress, and MIC are all cooperating with each other. Tension between these forces collapsed and with it the balance of powers. You’re living in a Fascist State. Accept it, learn from it, and a way to claw out will emerge.

  39. Cabra1080 December 13, 2010 at 11:28 am #

    The issue with population migrating to the Southwest USA is water – there’s not enough of it. Lake Mead water level keeps dropping along with the levels of many other reservoirs in the area. The future does not look promising for folks already living in the Southwest with regards to water supply especially in the face of climate change.
    Adobe houses work good to mitigate internal temperature, however, from what I saw the trailer house is the preferred dwelling and these require a lot of air conditioning to remain tolerable during the long hot summers.

  40. Lynn Shwadchuck December 13, 2010 at 11:34 am #

    Cabra you are so right. Jobless, homeless people may temporarily migrate south but ultimately water will be the main problem.

  41. pennohio December 13, 2010 at 11:42 am #

    “Are we a nation of morons?”
    Have I not been seeing ads on TV by banks for “secured credit cards”? You pay for a credit card and they charge you to use it? I have a debit card from my credit union and they don’t charge me a thing! If you have the cash to prepay a credit card, why not use the cash? Do people really addicted to the warm, fuzzy feeling of using a credit card???

  42. TimeTraveler December 13, 2010 at 11:47 am #

    The human race is at the crossroads of existence. The fork in the road for most is bewildering. The end of this year will bring sorrow and despair as the system falters, and the foundations that once held up society will dissolve like quicksand under your feet.
    James has put it in very real terms, we are at a revolutionary moment, but I would go further than that, and say to you all we are at a tipping point, a moment in time where we must look inside ourselves and ask if this is what we want for the future, or stand up for the one thing that we were born with, and what the source of all creation wants for us, and that is freedom.
    This cycle for humanity is ending. Time is literally speeding up to the point where the air is solidifying into a feeling of dense despair. You can feel it around you as the economic implosion draws near, and the Earth changes bring about the end of society as we know it. The almighty has endured long enough what we have done to this planet, and the time for a renewal as what happened 6,000 years ago when the great flood cleansed this planet is at hand.
    The time for this systems collapse is iminent, closer than anyone can imagine. The sovereign debt of the world is too heavy, and it will sink this ship.The governmnet is preparing you mentally by its constant bombardment of terror in the world, and by physically destroying the planet as with the BP gulf disaster, and the killing of our oceans and wildlife. They are systematically ruining our food supply and water resources. The ones who are left will be herded into FEMA camps and left to either die, or be used as forced labor.
    If you lay a history timeline from the Weimar Republic and Hitler’s rise to power it will overlap exactly to what is currently happening from the last 10 years or so to present. The question to you all, is do you want to live under suppression, and where there will be very little food and water to drink, and hyperinflation destroys your society, or do you want to stand up for your rights and secure your freedom and the spirituality?
    Humanity is ready for a transformation from this reality into a new one, which will leave behind the dark entities of this planet, and bring in a new higher level of existence where money, politics, greed, and corruption will no longer exist.The system of usury will no longer be needed, as we enter a time of peaceful exitence, and sharing the knowledge of the universe.
    It all starts inwardly. the love that the human heart puts out drives the universe. It will only take a small number to consciously change this reality to the one I speak of. Let us band together and rid ourselves of the shackles that hold the human race from our true destiny, and that is to travel the cosmos and spread the spirituality of the human heart,LOVE!
    The way to endure the coming appocolypse, is to drive a spike right thru the heart of what controls the system. If you topple them where it hurts the most, then they will fail. Buy as much silver as you can, Jp Morgan will topple, and pull your money out of the major banks, and don’t pay your Federal taxes.The system is going to topple anyways, so it really doesn’t matter! Cash in all stocks and let Wall Street crash, and let the economic gangsters rot in all their worthless derivatives, $600 trillion worth!
    Then prepare for the coming Earth changes and economic collapse by forming small communities, and loading up on food and water reserves. Dark times are nearing, and then we can consciously bring about a new reality soon, where all this doesn’t exist any more.

  43. erikSF99 December 13, 2010 at 11:49 am #

    Asoka said:
    “You can choose to live in the north, where the temperatures are below freezing and you have to go home to a cold house, or you can choose to move. We have that freedom.
    “You could decide, for example, to live in the southwest, someplace like southern New Mexico, one of the poorest and cheapest places to live in the United States, and it is 66 degrees and sunny there today.”
    Asoka, I realize the New Mexico is on the eastern side of the continental divide–but all your neighboring southwestern states are in the Colorado River Basin and there’s not enough water even now, Lake Mead is drying up, water allocations are going to be cut for Arizona, Nevada, Colorado and eventually California. It’s crazy to think people could move there and add to the demand on shrinking water resources.
    And, oops, did we forget Peak Oil–how are people going to to get around in those vast southwestern spaces when the gas isn’t available? They won’t have water for their backyard gardens and they won’t have gas. But at least they won’t freeze.

  44. seb December 13, 2010 at 11:55 am #

    This gentleman wrote
    Now, where is the key to the paradigm shifter?
    It sounds like things on a keyboard.
    But, the fact is that the paradigm is the same one under the previous theocracy, in which sinning and soul-saving was shifted to non-responsiblity by virtue of insanity, with the mind being the new name for the soul. The medical establishment now locks people up without a trial. In this way constitutional guarantees “preventing” abuse of power can be circumvented.
    The key is how one seemingly unrelated piece of the puzzle can affect the whole puzzle. Our system is fundamentally flawed and cannot survive, right? From lies we are told which deny reality?
    The actual key I wish to put forth is that freedom means doing the right thing. It does not mean being allowed to do it. It means doing something without being told you can do it. Don’t wait for the government to pass the right laws. It cannot. That would involve them in your freedom, and then it’s not yours, it’s theirs.
    I would like someone to take over on the hard parts of life. Food is funny. I don’t think it’s food. I think with one little wound you bleed to death if they won’t take you at the hospital. And, it is a tragic and preventable death. But, it helps to ease their conscience if they can think of you as poor and worthless.
    I overuse the word they. That doesn’t excuse or justify that the logic is wrong and I must be paranoid. Paranoia is a young person’s disease. I was paranoid forty years ago. What am I now? Psychic.
    All of you are psychic.
    Here’s what is in this book I am reading, where the subject is, the title is, Fatal Freedom:
    “One of the most troubling issues we face today is who should control when and how we die.

    This thoughtful analysis of these questions consistently holds forth patient autonomy as paramount; therefore, he argues, patients should not be prevented from exercising their free will, nor should physicians be permitted to enter the process by prescribing or providing the means for voluntary death.”
    -Szasz (1999)
    Oh, yeah. Bernie Madoff begat Mark Madoff, who killed himself around Thursday, but the impression we are left with, that the clinical depression took over and he had no free will whenever he tightened that dog collar around his neck, is wrong.
    No event can happen but that we don’t get the skewed version of it.

  45. wisewebwoman December 13, 2010 at 11:56 am #

    Poor JHK, always missing the real issues of the day:
    (1) DADT
    (2) Overturning Roe vs Wade
    (3) Protecting health care for profit
    (4) Keeping Krist in Kristmas and everywhere else.
    (5) Safeguarding the obscenely low tax rates of the super wealthy
    XO
    WWW

  46. conchscooter December 13, 2010 at 12:03 pm #

    The Automatic Earth carried another interesting exposition this past week by the Nominal Man discussing how extend and pretend will carty normality in the US past the breaking point of other nations when we will once again be the beacon on the hill for the broken countries around the world. It struck a deeper chord in me than the perpetual promise of failure and revolution which is preached by those of us with our eyes open.
    We seem to be very good at reading the stats and understanding the implications of Peak Oil, Climate Change and Christmas Bank Bonuses…the trouble is we wanna be revolutionaries have a hard time thinking that when the masses are exposed to our brilliant analysis, at last, they will simply turn their back on us and announce instead: “See? President Palin was right all along! Vote Palin a third term!”
    Decent working Germans lost their moral compasses in 1933 in the face of desperation and hunger but didn’t regain them until 1945 when they were crushed. There was no enlightenment or moment of revolution. Sure they got pissed off when food ran out and the Allies bombed their towns, but trhere were many Germans who survived World War Two who went to their graves believing in Goebbel’s propaganda.
    If there is a revolution watch out because the prophets of doom always go first.

  47. Al Klein December 13, 2010 at 12:12 pm #

    I read recently that Wall Street has allocated $114 billion this year for bonuses. The economy must be doing very well to support such a level of bonuses (which is remuneration beyond standard pay). So the question those not doing so well should be asking is “How do we get in on some of that action?” That’s what smart people do, rather than complaining. Get in on the action!

  48. San Jose Mom 51 December 13, 2010 at 12:14 pm #

    I couldn’t live in New Mexico. I’ve driven across it number of times and most recently flew into Albuquerque then drove up to Durango on two-lane roads. I’ve never seen so many beer bottles and bits of trash thrown along the highways. The Indian reservations are shabby hell-holes dotted with lots of places to buy alcohol. I was told never to cross a reservation in a car at night because of the risk of drunk drivers.
    An idealistic friend of mine went to teach school on a reservation in NM. She held no ill-will toward native-americans prior to her arrival, but after two years, she was disgusted and came back to California.
    San Jose is a good place to live climate-wise. Doesn’t get too hot in the summer. You might get a bit cold in the winter–but nothing you couldn’t manage with the help of extra sweaters, blankets, and a snuggly dog.
    SJmom

  49. Al Klein December 13, 2010 at 12:19 pm #

    This just in from Bloomberg. Headline: “Wall Street Sees Record Revenue in Recovery From Bailout”. Looks like things are back on track, people!

  50. Jerry McManus December 13, 2010 at 12:22 pm #

    I thought the best part of 60 minutes was the segment on John Boehner (apparently pronounced ‘bay-ner’, although I can’t resist calling him ‘boner’. Maybe I’ll just nickname him ‘woody’ and be done with it. But I digress…)
    He broke into big slobbering crocodile tears at the mere mention of anything remotely resembling the so-called “American Dream”, including his own life story.
    One might be tempted to write it off as showboating, perhaps with a pinch of genuine patriotic fervor, but the real tell came when he looked at his shoes and said in a low voice that he couldn’t go anywhere near schools full of children anymore.
    That’s when it hit me: Those are not tears of joy glistening on his trembling chin. He knows full well just how screwed we really are, and it terrifies him!
    He can’t go near schoolchildren or even talk about his own family without shamelessly puckering up because it breaks his plastic little heart knowing that they have NO FUTURE. What a guy!
    Cheers,
    Jerry

  51. ozone December 13, 2010 at 12:22 pm #

    Nice wrap-up of the latest in cornucopian happy-talk from National Petroleum Radio! ;o)
    I guess what we don’t know CAN hurt us after all, eh? Let the mushroom-ery (tm MM) of the world’s most exceptional peeps ever continue [ad infinitum, 'til it don't]…

  52. wardoc December 13, 2010 at 12:34 pm #

    When a given number of formerly self labeled middle and upper middle class people (that number is the % of the cold/semi-starving/hopeless, a tripping point number and the estimates are all over the page) have lost their jobs, maxed out their credit cards, have trouble paying their dramatically increasing property taxes on underwater dwellings they can’t heat, and lost HOPE for themselves, and more importantly, their children, then that’s it. The Shit really will come apart THEN. That’s when the best scenarios for prediction are Bosnia, Sarajevo, and Zimbawbwe, i.e. road warrior.
    Regardless of what we all say to ourselves the poor and working classes really don’t figure into the equation; they are too disoriented from living dollar to dollar even during the past boom to be able to organize themselves, and they have been far too brainwashed that either Sarah Palin, Jesus, or Glen Beck will save them. Its the middle classes that are dangerous to the status quo of the power elite, unless they are pacified by the illusion of prosperity and, cynically, self proclaimed “elite” status; that’s been true in virtually every revolutionary period in history. Eventually, though, the elite (the real elite, not what the upper middle classes think they are) will, to continue their present status, have to devour the assets of the levels above the poor and working classes and the levels just below them.
    Here it comes.
    May you live in interesting times.
    Wardoc, locked and loaded.

  53. ccm989 December 13, 2010 at 12:38 pm #

    The problem is that when they all offshored they succeeded in laying off the consumers they all intended to sell to ie the North American middle or working class. While this strategy works in the short run, earning CEOs mind blowing compensation, it’s really hard to see how it works in the long run. How do these companies prosper if their intended market becomes progressively more and more impoverished.
    Oh wait, I forgot, CEOs don’t give a shit about the long run. They make enough in one year to become as rich as Croesus.
    This is what I would call market failure. A small, incestuous group, each scratching the back of the other, all saying the same thing, that you have to pay colossal piles of loot to CEOs (ie themselves) to attract the “best and the brightest”
    **************************************************************
    Yes, I think you have hit the nail right on the head. The rich are so distant from the rest of us, they have lost touch with reality and eventually will not have anyone to buy their junk products. And the CEOs are so busy killing the environment and polluting the water to make ever more money, there is a risk of killing off millions. Maybe that’s their plan — to starve, sicken and cause the rest of us such great thirst that we will be too weak to fight back. Of course, as long as the great populous masses continues to watch FOX News, they won’t figure out how bad it is or whose really to blame.
    TV is the great opiate of the masses. And since the states are so busy laying off teachers, no one need learn to read or think for themselves. Just turn on the boob tube, get riled up and be told what to think. Simple, easy, dangerous.

  54. antimatter December 13, 2010 at 12:44 pm #

    Allow me add to the discussion. I’m about to be homeless, my gas heat is off, water soon to be cut, electric will go down on 12/28, and my phone is off, so is my internet. The internet provider sent out a tech to retrieve the modem who made a chiding remark that ‘you can’t even pay $40 to have the service?’ He had a Spanish accent. And my landlord of 10 years sent me an eviction notice. I don’t have a job, can’t find one, one reason is I’m 60. Unemployment benefits ran out three months ago. And as a courtesy, I called up all the utility companies and told them the situation. They all said basically, ‘well your service will be shut off unless you can pay.’ And it was clear cut—everything is monetized, and you’re talking to a ‘service account specialist’ who is at a computer screen of your account—she doesn’t know you, you don’t know her. You’re an account number in a database. Same with the banks, and same every service you buy using a courtesy card, like food.

    So, back to my story. I was told by ‘everyone’ to call our county social services. Gas heat not covered, electric not covered, phone not covered, water not covered, rent, maybe but I have to ‘call them,’ and word is that the amounts they help with are very low—not realistic. I don’t have a phone and I don’t have a family, I’m over 60 which rules me out it looks like.

    Churches? Overwhelmed with the thousdands asking for help.

    Friends? Tapped out or unemployed or about to be. One was put on part time because his employer didn’t want to pay unemploymnet taxes, and then he was laid off, losing his house in the process.

    so you have all these unemployed and destitute people using coffee houses for warmth, and taking showers at friend’s houses. And in the midst of this, Congressman Alan Grayson sends out an email asking ‘for ideas’ for the new Congress to work on in the Spring. IDEAS? How about keeping people from freezing and starvation?

    My opinion is, Congress and banks have declared total war on working Americans—the middle class included. I hate to be so blunt, but remember seeing old Black men walking the streets on a cold day? Welcome to it America, at least all but the elite.

    How much indignity will Americans put up with? They are too busy shivering and starving to organize to react—this is by design my fellow Americans. Those Black men in big coats spend all their time staying warm, trying to deal with social services who say ‘use our web site’ for services. And now, working Americans, the middle class too, will see this way of life, and they will accept it, just like the supermarket workers. Suffering in silence.

    Meantime, the 25 year old graduates from MBA schools—our KIDS—are turning the screws, under direction of their banking bosses, and being very well paid to do so.

    Yes, the working American, the middle class American is screwed, but they don’t have the power, and are so busy looking for work and food, they have nothing left. And this my friends, is the truth of the matter.

    We’re seeing an unprecedented war conducted by Congress and the banks against Americans.

    Read the Grapes of Wrath, or watch some of Ed Murrow’s broadcasts from the field during the depession—we’re headed there, again, and for many, we’re there now.

    Think of Americans with no heat, electricity, water, is a total outrage. Who in Congress is taking up this cry? Is the president? No, cold and aloof, our president of the people is disapearing the very ones who gave him their votes. How crass, how cynical this man is.

    As for job hunting, no more going down the road to ask for a job, unless you want to displace those old Black men who mounted your last set of Michelins. Instead it’s ‘visit our web site’ where they get all your personal data, while having far too many applicants to offer you even an interview. And so over time, you fall down the wall, and become less and less qualified for anything but minimal jobs—and you will still have a cold house!

    We’re in such terrible trouble. I saw it when it was relatively good, so I have experienced the difference in my work life, from ‘all is peachy’ to eviction. I feel very emotional about where we are headed, and angry. But I spend my time job hunting on web sites. Today it took three hours to apply for two jobs, because I had to ‘set up an acount,’ then ‘fill out a profile–that was like typing my entire resume into their web pages (no more just sending a resume—the IT professonals in HR have seen to that), and then writing a cover letter, then attaching my actual resume, and keying SEND. No more just going down to ask for a job—a 50’s thing.

    personally, I think we’re going to see more and more theft and suicide, but from the point of view of banks and employers—if you can’t get a job, then you need to ‘de-rez’ from the game, and that is what we are about see. But the media won’t cover it, maybe alternative media will.

    I know what i will do if it gets too tough, and I will save myself a lot of hell, which I see on the horizon. Imagine, you go home to find the water’s off, or its dark, and without income, you can’t do a damned thing about it. Just imagine this country descending like that, abusing its people, while the elites have the finest steak, liquor and, sex. What an outrage. What an outrage.

  55. piltdownman December 13, 2010 at 1:06 pm #

    The scions of American business are the same people they were 5 years ago, before the wheels started to wobble — but they haven’t changed at all, and won’t. If they have learned anything, it’s that out-sourcing our manufacturing capabilities was a good idea then and it’s a better idea now. All they know and care about is keeping costs low and revenue high. That is ALL they care about. That’s what they are taught in the B-schools and they take it to heart. Unlike Jeff Goldblum in “Annie Hall,” they haven’t forgotten that mantra….
    Worse yet, they have discovered (much to their delight!) that even their depleted and depressed employees, now burdened with all the work their “downsized” co-workers used to shoulder, are being more productive!
    “Hey, we laid off all these bums and we’re still in business! We’re NEVER going to hire them back! Woo hoo!”
    And while you see moments of unrest in Europe and at least a soupçon of street protesting, it seems that, as long a young people have the latest “smart phone” in the U.S., they’ll always be happy — that is until the c-spine permanently fuses into a downward slant….
    Pilt

  56. Neil Kearns December 13, 2010 at 1:16 pm #

    Up here in the gray frozen Northwest exists a chain of groceries that used to be known as Price Chopper and had bulk goods and budget minded stuff in line with the main demographic of chronically unemployed lumber workers. About 5 years ago they changed their name to Market Of Choice and rebranded themselves as a “green” force by using hemp and bamboo panels here and there, well advertised solar power system, and a color scheme that says “we care about the earth”. What’s no surprise is that they changed their product lineup to mostly 4000 mile berries, potato chips from Virginia, and super boutique goods of interest to the nuveau-psuedo rich buoyed by easy credit. Basically the equivalent strategy to the mining practice known as “high grading”. Just substitute ‘ore deposit’ with ‘suburbanites who think they are wealthy’ and you get the idea.
    Still I go there, because it is one stop shopping which can save time/gas as there are few alternatives around- and I experience a kind of nostalgia for the present where I look at the loaded shelves and well fed people and think that is really is a phenomena in the grand scale of the human race.

  57. rocco December 13, 2010 at 1:33 pm #

    JHK, thanks for the insight into the ramblings of our political leaders. In my blue collar town those of us with jobs work 2 fulltime jobs that is, others who work part time jobs may have 3, limited or no health care benefits. Society is falling apart, but like the other posters above me have said, they worry about protesting at Planned Parenthood, demon possession in books, movies,e.g. Harry Potter,get government off our backs. They do not want to hear aabout peak oil, peak water,soil,etc,the war on Christmas. Oh my lord Zeus, I saw its a wonderful life the other day, where oh where is Mr. George Bailey to fight our Potters that rule our banking world. BUT no worries,everything is good, or the other folks like me will remember,”What me worry”.

  58. Schwerpunkt December 13, 2010 at 1:34 pm #

    Having a rental property upstate NY (close to one of those creepy Price Choppers), I know all too well how to spend 5-6K on heat. My tenants expect to be able to wear tee shirts all the time rather than a pull over. I don’t think this population of spoiled brats can think about revolution. The average American expects the food pellets delivered as they always have – when they ring the right bell. The ruling classes are good with this. They have merged the parties into one single ball as the Demopublicans. And this one party, does not have the middle class in mind nor the poor at heart.
    http://schwerpunkter.wordpress.com/

  59. Dutch Treat December 13, 2010 at 1:36 pm #

    Sprezza, I beg to differ. ‘Pourri’ means ‘stirred’. You’re confusing it with ‘putri’ which indeed means ‘rotten’.

  60. Vlad Krandz December 13, 2010 at 1:38 pm #

    When will Americans get desperate enought to demand the obvious: kick out the illegals and unemployment is solved in one stroke. But, But, what about the Mexicans and Mexico? Worrying about other countries is a luxury of the rich – and one that our Elite have foisted on us endlessly and shamefully for decades in order to enrich themselves. When are we going to become brave enough to be “selfish” again; to become like David Copperfield and ask for “more”? To ask for what is our due as a taxpayer, a citizen, a self?
    Sorry things are so bad – I may be right where you are in a couple of years. Get to a big city that has alot of social services for the homeless. I was just in Spokane and they seem to have alot. I’ve heard Portland is very good, plus the climate is much milder. Also, at least for now, Orgegon is still controlled by Liberals. After a couple of years on a waiting list, they might be able to get you set up in an apartment. Don’t feel shame, man. You tried. Many people have been out on the streets only to rise again with a little help. In the meantime, Portland has large parks and a nearby Wilderness area you can camp out in. In the winter, there are shelters. During the day, you can hang out in the library and malls. Anyway, good luck and let us know how it goes.

  61. John66 December 13, 2010 at 1:49 pm #

    “The Revolutionary Moment” comes when it becomes sufficiently evident that the price of oil is pulling the economy down. OPEC has already refused to increase output. The talk seems to be that $75 a barrel is no longer a good “normal.” Instead, the producers seem to be setting the new normal to be around $90. This is a death sentence for the American economy.
    The time is at hand.

  62. John66 December 13, 2010 at 1:58 pm #

    “Virginia’s lawyers argued that the federal government could not regulate someone for not buying a good or service under the U.S. Constitution’s Commerce Clause and could not penalize them for failing to buy health insurance.” – Reuters
    Looks like Obama should have went with a single payer system to begin with, eh?

  63. Vlad Krandz December 13, 2010 at 2:06 pm #

    The classic example is a shoe factory in which the workers can’t afford to buy their own product. The poor Capitalists are now disheartened at the prosperity of China and are looking with great longing on Vietnam as a source of slave labor. Where did it all go wrong? As you said, we wanted something for nothing. Freedom isn’t free or as Seb said, we focused to much on the freedom to choose and hardly ever on doing the right thing. And even those who would do the right thing can’t because they have to compete with the criminals. The only answer is Protectionism – yes, tariffs. You can’t compete with slave labor without becoming a slave yourself. Yes, they’ve been vilified for generations – by the hired guns of the Corporations in Academia.
    And Marx hated them too – Marxists hate reform and the Nation State. They want Capitalism to go to its inevitable extreme and die in chaos and blood. Study history – tariffs are one of the main instruments of nation building – or rebuilding. So what if they’re damned to hell? The “authorities” are a bunch of academic whores dancing for their dinner. It’s an utterly reasonable, outside the box thing to do – just as reasonable as throwing out the illegals and getting full employment back. Renounce your innate conservatism and become a radical or real conservative. Radical just means to get to the root of. And that’s what we have to do: get to the root of the problem. Get out of the fucking box.
    Reinstating Glass-Seagall would be a fine first step. Then employ thousands of Americans in building the Wall. Then kick out the Mexicans. Then bring the troops home and put one third of them on the border. Then impose tariffs. Then rebuild the rairoads a la Kunstler. Then elect me as POTUS. You can be my Secretary of Finance. Read “The Creature from Jekyll Island” and submit a full report on the steps that should be taken based on the information revealed therein.

  64. myrtlemay December 13, 2010 at 2:10 pm #

    I’ll not condesend by saying to you that your post devastated me emotionally. Please, please try to keep your chin up. You’ll get through this! Follow the advise of Antimatter (seemed like sage advice to me, at least). Explore social services in large cities. Moving to a locale with more services will surely help you in the short run. Please don’t get dispirited!
    I bitch relentlessly about petty grievances, but I could easily be you inside of 3 – 5 years. Money can only be savored as long as it lasts. This will truly become a problem for your generation which is huge in number. And who among us can easily say (smugly or otherwise) that we can merrily go along, tomorrow or even a month from now, if our costs for heating go up TEN FOLD?
    When I feel despondent, I think of some of the many posters here who can, for what it’s worth, decree that this old, Happy Motoring culture of ours isn’t worth (perhaps never was) keeping. I mean, perversely, we are a morally deginerate culture – one that needs to be replaced, sort of like a decaying tooth (just got back from root canal surgery – seems appropro, although probably not really).
    What formerly was known as “adult” in our culture has disappeared into outright infantalism. Just got an e-mail from a “friend” chastising me about not letting her know about our social group’s annual Christmas party! Can’t figure out when I got to be the bitch’s “mother”! At any rate, “Anti”, please don’t give up! Your plight, and that of JHK’s grocery store cashiers isn’t lost on me. Keep up the fight, man! Good luck!

  65. Vlad Krandz December 13, 2010 at 2:11 pm #

    Southern New Mexico, if not the whole State, seems to have been ceded to Mexico without them telling anybody (illegaly). So any White or Black who lives there is going to have to deal with people who consider him an interloper. After a few years, it may well become official and Whites and Blacks would be ordered out as illegal immigrants – or at least foced to swear allegiance to Mexico.

  66. myrtlemay December 13, 2010 at 2:12 pm #

    “seems appropro, although probably not really).”
    SHOULD HAVE BEEN “apropo”.

  67. dubiousfacts December 13, 2010 at 2:16 pm #

    Once again: The death of hope and the beginning of a fascist america run by elite war profiteers occurred when JFK was murdered right in front of us and we accepted the obvious coverup. We were willing to trade our control of events for the false prosperity and security of the American Dream, even as they murdered RFK and MLK in turn and 50,000 of us were sacrifised in Vietnam. We did not rebel, we were cowed by the forces of darkness who are now finalizing the collapse of democracy. The barbarians have grasped the levers of power and seized the wealth of the people, yet they will end up ruling a diseased and stricken planet. Such is the fate of ultimate greed.

  68. John66 December 13, 2010 at 2:23 pm #

    “The only answer is Protectionism – yes, tariffs.”
    You have to think about what has driven globalization–consumer demand for lower prices. The consumer will ALWAYS want lower prices. That’s part of being a consumer. The only difference between now and 50 years ago is that manufacturers are willing to go some place else to exploit another country’s labor force. Globalization is doing to the Chinese people what the Industrial Revolution was doing to us before Franklin Roosevelt.
    I think the only answer is sharing a common currency with China and Vietnam. Then, if the factories go to another country, follow right behind them, merging with that country’s currency and if producers want to continue exploiting labor even though we share a common currency, then they’ll have to figure out why people are not buying their products (hint: you have to pay your workers enough to buy the products they make).
    If you think about it, what else is a currency but a measure of the quality of supply chain mechanisms within a particular economy?

  69. myrtlemay December 13, 2010 at 2:41 pm #

    Please forgive my stupidity! It was Vlad’s advice I echoed (imagine that!) Anyway, apologies all around…and yes, I will try my hardest to keep my mouth shut going forward!

  70. jgalt6 December 13, 2010 at 2:42 pm #

    The answer, at least partially, is simple, but never to be. Cut corporate taxes, among the highest on the globe, and regulations strangling our companies, and align them with the rest of the world. Bring back our factories by giving them 3-5 years of federal and state tax exemptions to entice them to return, and even open new manufacturing plants from foreign investors. Without a manufacturing base, there is no way to grow wealth, or avoid the destruction of our once great country. Helicopter Ben will merely continue to print money without any backing, which the elites use to grab more of what remains of the national wealth. The destruction of the U.S. is by design and that is why no one even suggests the common sense answers to restore our manufacturing base. I do not agree that “all” Americans are too cowed and beaten down to resist our increasingly marxist/fascist, i.e., National Socialists, leadership. There will be staged assaults against Americans like Ruby Ridge and Waco, intended to frighten Americans out of any thoughts of resistance, but the response will be both surprising and frightening to our corrupt leadership, especially the refusal of our military to slaughter their fellow Americans. Rather, look for a military coup to save this country from the marxists planned destruction.

  71. Al Klein December 13, 2010 at 2:46 pm #

    I get the impression that a perfect storm scenario is coming our way here in the US. Over the past several decades we have engaged in many unsustainable practices, e.g. outsourcing productive jobs and increasing bureaucratic “work”, extravagant energy consumption, and so on. Now the chickens are coming home to roost. This unsustainability was masked by cheap oil. Should we be surprised? I think not. This is what JHK calls “The Long Emergency” which, from my viewpoint, we have now entered.

  72. trippticket December 13, 2010 at 2:52 pm #

    antimatter, thanks for the candor. Sometimes it’s hard to “fess up to the Guv’nah” about bad situations, and I admire you for being able to do it.
    I’m sitting in my 45 degree living room, arctic wind whipping through the “warm” part of the country down here in Jawjah, unable to afford to heat the house beyond keeping the one wet wall above freezing with a space heater, but at least my wife and children are at my grandparents staying nice and toasty.
    I won’t pile on Asoka about moving to the desert southwest. Water is almost gone there, so please don’t listen to such tom-foolery, folks. (And no, you wouldn’t want to live in the southeast either;) We don’t take too kindly to new ideas down here, so if you have ‘em, peddle ‘em elsewhere. We got rain and firewood galore, but no fertility left in the hard red “soil”…although…we do have plenty of 2x4s to eat, if you can find some cellulose-digesting gut microbes to partner with, but our summers are unbearably sultry. There’s a reason why so many southerners are born in July. October is the first month cool enough to get that close to another person.
    I’m all out of positive this week, got it sucked right outta me by last week’s thread, so I’ll see you guys next week, after the weather improves a bit, and my fingers thaw out. Maybe? Meantime, shivering or not, there’s plenty of work that needs doin’.
    Peace to all this holiday season.
    Tripp
    Oh, and Q, you can suck it, you know you want to;)

  73. trippticket December 13, 2010 at 2:55 pm #

    Before I run, POC, I wasn’t suggesting that you don’t know what you’re talking about, just frustrated that you thought I was making shit up.
    That pissed off response of yours was some world-class windmill-tilting…

  74. asoka December 13, 2010 at 2:57 pm #

    ErikSF99 said: “Asoka, I realize the New Mexico is on the eastern side of the continental divide…”
    Yeah, mention New Mexico and most people think Santa Fe, Taos, and Albuquerque. I was referring to less high-rent parts of southern New Mexico.
    The water issue will be solved the same way other problems will be solved: energy descent (we will learn to use less water), re-localization (we won’t depend exclusively on centralized water supply), and permaculture (a paradigm shift that will recharge water supply).
    Re-localization is happening now, as many areas are legally requiring rainwater catchment. Rainwater harvesting has been used to provide drinking water, water for livestock, water for irrigation or to refill aquifers (groundwater recharge).
    Rainwater systems are simple to construct from inexpensive local materials, and are potentially successful in most habitable locations. Roof rainwater is usually of good quality and does not require treatment before consumption.
    Household rainfall catchment systems are appropriate in areas with an average rainfall greater than 200mm per year (about 8 inches), and no other accessible water sources (Skinner and Cotton, 1992). Many parts of southern New Mexico receive more than 8 inches of precipitation annually.

  75. Madcat December 13, 2010 at 3:02 pm #

    OPEC refuses to up production?
    That would be because they can’t I guess, just like in 2007 as prices soared into the 100+ range and the US president was seen making a international spectacle of himself, pleading with the Saudi king to “turn the taps on” so the American people didn’t have to pay $4 a gallon for gas.
    I’m sure the Saudis didn’t want to say “no” and then watch the resultant recession dramatically reduce oil demand and cause the crash in oil prices and their own profits, but they had no option. They cannot produce more.
    That’s Peak Oil – that number of barrels per day beyond which production plateaus (even as demand increases) then goes into permanent decline. It’s been coming for a while. As long ago as 1982, the State Department released a report which stated:
    ” . . world petroleum production will peak in the 1990-2010 interval at 80-105 million barrels per day…”
    How interesting that world oil production in 2007 was hovering at approximately 85 million barrels per day, just as prices soared and President Bush made his mercy dash to Saudi Arabia.
    The results were predictable, just as they are again now. Prices surge, markets crash, demand drops and western society goes back into a happy state of denial, feasting on the “green shoots” of another economic recovery until the next time demand crashes into production limits. (The Mook summed that up nicely above :)
    Add the Fed’s fumbling attempts to stimulate the US consumer economy by printing money and injecting it into the system, and watch as inflation does its nasty work making oil seem even more expensive as demand increases. $90 oil is just like 2007’s $75 oil now that the US dollar has been gutted by quantitative easing…

  76. asia December 13, 2010 at 3:09 pm #

    Climate Change or just ‘the weather’?
    L.A. continues to have record breaking weather.
    hot and cold.
    after a very cold spell it was 87, broke the record.
    and in september it was 113. hottest day ever in 100+ years of record keeping.
    and it had been a cold summer on the coast due to fog that was due to changes in sea temperature.

  77. asia December 13, 2010 at 3:11 pm #

    worrys will only make things worse.
    worry is emotional. thought is not.

  78. observer December 13, 2010 at 3:15 pm #

    Last Friday, I went to a presentation by Ellen Hodgson Brown about transforming banking.
    Her flyer included a quote from Henry Ford: “It is well enough that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
    Ellen Brown is the author of the book, “Web of Debt.” She talked about the state-owned Bank of North Dakota, and how it has kept North Dakota solvent for some ninety years. She thinks a State Bank of California could do the same thing, and is putting together a group of people to take the steps needed to make that happen. With Jerry Brown as governor, it’s a real possibility. Ellen Brown has a web site http://www.webofdebt.com/ And there are also videos of her speaking, which you will find if you Google her.
    And the Bank of North Dakota has a web site with lots of fascinating history showing how and why it was established, in 1919. It’s worth a look.
    http://www.banknd.nd.gov/about_BND/prairie_public_history_of_BND/index.html The history pages are great!
    I also have a book called “Out of Debt, Out of Danger,” written in 1942 by then California Congressman Jerry Voorhis, who was later defeated by Richard Nixon (using dirty tricks). It covers much of the same territory, but does not advocate a state bank. It focuses on the Federal Reserve. One of its main points is that Congress has abdicated its Constitutionally given right to create money, giving it to private bankers, and should take it back.
    One of the most interesting things in Ellen Brown’s presentation was a chart showing moneys spent on social programs and money spent on interest. The moneys spent on social programs go along for decades on wavy lines that are pretty much horizontal. But the interest line goes steadily upward until there’s a large and growing triangle of interest. That’s the real reason for our current problems. That’s why we’re cutting school moneys and government employees–because private banks are collecting more and more interest from the state and federal taxpayers!
    The idea of establishing state-owned banks is the best one I have heard for solving our current problems. And the fact that one has existed and worked well for 91 years was great news. There’s a model.
    How to make this happen? Developing a groundswell of public demand for state banks, and later even a national bank, is important. Finding people who know how to set up a bank is important. (She said the easiest way to do it is by taking over a failing bank, and she said it can be done in 60-90 days.) Finding people who have studied banking and know how to read the financial statements is important. (Her son is a graduate student in economics, and when she asked him, he said he didn’t study BANKING.) I see that there is a School of Banking in North Dakota. Who would have guessed? Inviting her to speak in other areas would be good, and publicize it well.
    A few tidbits from her talk:
    “Modern Money Mechanics” is a book put out by the Fed and available online. She recommended it.
    There’s a movie called “California Dreaming,” made by a European about American people living in tent cities.
    Cutting out interest reduces project costs by 30-50%.
    Public debt IS the money supply, so we can’t eliminate it. We can eliminate the DEFICIT but not the DEBT. The de-leveraging (contraction) of the money supply that is happening now is the cause of our fiscal problems.
    To those who think North Dakota is too small to serve as a model for a state like California, the History of the Reserve Bank of Australia makes interesting reading:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_Bank_of_Australia
    And then, of course, there is the People’s Republic of China, whose citizens are certainly not paying interest to private banks and bankers. From Wikipedia: The People’s Bank of China (PBC or PBOC) is the central bank of the People’s Republic of China with the power to control monetary policy and regulate financial institutions in mainland China. The People’s Bank of China has more financial assets than any other single public finance institution in world history.[2] Read more here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Bank_of_China

  79. asia December 13, 2010 at 3:15 pm #

    there was a bill in senate [as you probably know] to rename the state..the name it had when
    mehico owned it.

  80. Cash December 13, 2010 at 3:16 pm #

    Here it is folks, the unthinkable becoming the inevitable: Detroit is thinking about removing city services ie fire, police, garbage removal from swathes of the city because of the no money situation. Going to concentrate what money they have on the viable neighborhoods. So folks will have to move if they want the city services. The alternative to not moving? No need to paint the picture. We all have one in our heads.
    No formal plan yet but wait for it.
    Source? Huffington Post.
    Question is how many more cities/states will do the same? This as the gangsters on Wall Street hoard more and more.
    Power hates a vacuum. So the question is this: as city and state governments recede and uniformed symbols of their authority disappear how long before the old order gets replaced?
    Maybe you have insurrections and informal militias taking control of swathes of cities and states where the old traditionally constituted authorities no longer have the reach or the will to go.
    Maybe like the fifth century Roman Army you have the US military being recalled from far flung deployments to subdue restless locals and their leaders who were telling Washington/state capitols to go get fucked, we’re not paying taxes, you have no say here. Maybe the problem will then be soldiers telling civil authorities hey we aren’t getting paid and why should we shoot Americans anyway?
    Maybe, one day, in the teeth of massive civil unrest and disorder, you have an American General, in the employ of Chinese paymasters, telling the last US President to go to his villa and stay away from Washington. Just like the barbarian chief Odoacer told Romulus Augustulus the last emperor of Rome.
    Or maybe Chinese oligarchs approach Pacific state capitols or cities on the west coast offering “financing” in return for ownership of hard assets like tracts of land, mines, stands of timber, offshore oil deposits, maybe in return for accommodation of Chinese forces, maybe offering the re-establishment of public order.
    Especially as Washington has apparently abandoned them and state governments are bankrupt and impotent. Maybe this is all mental masturbation and science fiction or maybe not.

  81. asia December 13, 2010 at 3:24 pm #

    BeantownBill replied to comment from asia
    You saying that everyone in the Business is Jewish?
    OF COURSE NOT
    Don’t think $20 Million-per-picture-Brad-Pitt is Jewish. Nor his wife.
    Friend of mine lives in LA, West Hollywood. Is in the business.[ OK...IS HE GOY???]
    I visit every few years, go on location somewhere and watch a movie being made. I can tell you, the film crew isn’t Jewish, mostly.
    THE COOLIES ARE GOYS OR JEWS ‘ WORKIN THEIR WAY UP’

  82. Onthego December 13, 2010 at 3:32 pm #

    Here just a litle more proof that JHK was right about Nowhere!
    ‘Walkable’ Communities More Close-Knit, Study Finds
    Residents are also healthier, happier, with a higher quality of life
    FRIDAY, Dec. 10 (HealthDay News) — Americans who live in walkable neighborhoods are more involved in their communities, more trusting and have a higher quality of life, a new study suggests.
    A walkable community means people have an easy stroll to such destinations as parks and playgrounds, club meetings, and services such as a post office, barbershop, coffee shops and restaurants, explained study author Shannon Rogers and colleagues, from the University of New Hampshire.
    They interviewed 700 residents in 20 neighborhoods in two New Hampshire cities about the number of locations they could reach by foot in their community, their trust in the local community, participation in community activities and socializing with friends, all of which comprise what is called “social capital.”
    The researchers found that walkable neighborhoods scored higher on every measure of social capital than less walkable neighborhoods. People who lived in walkable neighborhoods were also more likely to report being in good health and happy more often than those in less walkable neighborhoods.
    “Walkability has been linked to quality of life in other studies. Walkability may also enhance social capital by providing the means and locations for individuals to connect, share information and interact with those that they might not otherwise meet,” the researchers noted.
    “The links we found between walkability and measures of social capital in this study provide further evidence for the consideration of social capital as a key component of quality of life,” they concluded.
    The study appears online in the journal Applied Research in Quality of Life.

  83. futuredriven December 13, 2010 at 3:36 pm #

    Time magazine recently had a story about
    the Dollar Tree stores. How the sales
    continue to skyrocket. It was a very flattering
    piece about how well Dollar Tree merchandises
    and the value their shoppers get. It mentioned
    that domestic Walmart sales were down 6 quarters
    (same store sales on average). In other words
    Walmart shoppers are finding WalMart too pricey.
    and going to the only place cheaper.Its all
    about discretionary income and more and more
    Americans have less and less.

  84. Qshtik December 13, 2010 at 3:37 pm #

    SHOULD HAVE BEEN “apropo”.
    =========
    I know it makes no sense unless you’re French but it’s apropos.

  85. turkle December 13, 2010 at 3:40 pm #

    Suckers.

  86. turkle December 13, 2010 at 3:52 pm #

    Here is the NYT derivatives article (registration required).
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/12/business/12advantage.html?_r=2&emc=eta1&pagewanted=print

  87. Al Klein December 13, 2010 at 3:54 pm #

    Cash, remember a few years ago when the the big Chinese oil company wanted to buy Unocal? Big uproar. I’ll bet there would not be such a big uproar now. Plus, you’ve got all sorts of states and municipalities trying to sell off public assets for operating expenses. I believe Indiana has leased their turnpike for example. Chicago leased out all its parking meters. Pennsylvania was well on the way to leasing out its turnpike system too. The states and municipalities are doing just exactly what many consumers did: turn their assets into ATM machines! And we see how that worked out! In any case, we may well find ourselves in the same predicament that the Germans found themselves after WWI – where much of their infrastructure was foreign owned, sold off to pay the reparations. At least the cause of their travail was that that lost a war. What did we do? We spent ourselves into the poorhouse.
    I can easily imagine the Chinese owners of our debt wanting to convert the debt they hold into assets. Why not? It isn’t as though they stole our money. We took their products and gave them scrip. There are only so many factories they are going to want to buy. Soon enough they will want to buy more land and fixed assets here. And since the American rule is that he who has the cash makes the rules, who can deny them that right?

  88. Lisa V December 13, 2010 at 3:55 pm #

    Would be nice not to have illegals
    But what king of jobs do they take? Construction, mostly, food deliveries, cleaning houses, what else? Construction is half dead. Food deliveries could be done by kids after school for pocket money.
    Their jobs would not even scratch the surface of unemployment

  89. turkle December 13, 2010 at 3:55 pm #

    “the love that the human heart puts out drives the universe.”
    No, it is actually fusion of hydrogen into helium within stars that drives the universe. Stars synthesize all the other elements as well. Everything that exists on earth was flung out of a supernova. It required about four supernova cycles to create all the heavy elements that exist here.
    But anyways…

  90. Jose Camaron December 13, 2010 at 4:17 pm #

    In CNN’s Living section today:
    “The new hungry: College-educated, middle-class cope with food insecurity”
    http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/12/13/food.insecurity.holidays.middle.class/?hpt=Sbin

  91. jerry December 13, 2010 at 4:25 pm #

    The only way change will come for the working classes is through massive–massive protests, and a nationwide strike. Otherwise, forgetaboutit!
    There is a two party system operating as a single party. When both parties rely on the same elite funding sources for their million dollar campaigns, then the elite will get what they want from those elected representatives and president.
    The elite are all about one thing—greed, and feeding off of the treasury’s trough to expand their incomes.
    Change will never come. It will just get worse more quickly when the Cons take over the entire government. I guess if we currently have a president who is academically very smart, yet is a complete nincompoop, then electing a complete nincompoop out of the GOP’s top 5 list who lacks a single brain cell, then I guess who sits in the White House really doesn’t matter anymore.
    http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

  92. Qshtik December 13, 2010 at 4:31 pm #

    Suckers.
    ======
    Client Schmient!

  93. turkle December 13, 2010 at 4:40 pm #

    The Federal Reserve literally handed out trillions in zero interest loans to banks and corporations (see links in comments section from last week’s story). The bailout was only the beginning. Then these entities were able to re-lend this money at a higher interest rate, thus creating a chain of credit that grows their capital to the tune of billions. Or they could invest their free money in the markets for capital gains. So the big boys get the free money when they need it. That’s how the system works.
    Yet, as sad stories like antimatter’s attest, American society seems to put very little value on sustaining the “man in the street,” struggling to get by. The social safety net in America is fraying, so that millions of formerly middle class people are in danger of falling right through it.
    What does this suggest?
    America needs a massive reinvestment in its social services infrastructure. We need to make sure that people can stay in their homes or at least be put up in decent housing, even if they can’t pay rent or a mortgage. We need to make unemployment insurance last indefinitely. We need to make sure people can eat. The government needs to sustain people’s basic modes of survival. If that’s called socialism, well then that’s fine. The system we have is basically socialism for the ultra wealthy, so let’s re-balance these scales and get some socialism back for the common person.
    One would think that a bump of 5% on the upper tax bracket would be a justifiable yang for this ying of improving the safety net, given that the top 1% has, over the last 30 years, taken nearly all of the economic gains, while the middle class has stagnated and even fallen behind. Or what about a bump in the capital gains tax of 1% to 2%?
    In other words, where’s the bailout for those who actually need it? We were able to keep our “too big to fail” zombie banks in easy credit. McDonald’s, Harley Davidson, and Verizon pulled down billions in zero interest loans.
    Where’s the help for the man in the street?
    Many middle class people seem to think that someday they will be making over $250k in taxable income. And when they get there, they want to keep as much of it as they can. For most, this is only an unachievable fantasy. Far more important for most in the years ahead will be to not fall off the edge of the economic cliff right into poverty.
    I agree with JHK. When millions start to fall from the middle class here, that means the wheels have come off. I don’t want to see it happen. It means disaster, if only because every other person here seems to be armed like Rambo. What are people going to start to do when they have no money to buy necessities? Simple. They’ll take them, by force if they have to.
    Finally, I want to say something about capitalism itself. Yes, this system has powered the world’s growth over the last two hundred odd years. There are some viable concepts embedded into it. But one consequence of this system is the utterly inhumane and pernicious doctrine that each person needs to “make a profit” simply in order to survive in the world. We do not usually examine this unspoken assumption or its consequences, which are disastrous if not tempered by socialist principles. Capitalism says nothing about quality of life or moral principles for society. It only states that everything can and should be sacrificed on the altar of profits. Our current situation in America is an example of this. We seem willing to go right off the cliff, following this ideology to its logical conclusions.

  94. WorldsEdge December 13, 2010 at 4:45 pm #

    This nation is kept intact only by the widespread delusion of winning the lottery. Propose revolution and people get mad: you’re proposing wrecking their chance to gamble and become millionaires. Las Vegas is our spiritual capital, Wall Street is just the monster outpost.
    Yes, Obama has turned out to be just another politician of our times, dedicated to the plight of the international wealthy who still don’t have nearly enough and whom we all wish we could be. He does what he can to help them drive more nails into our coffin of poverty. But at least we get fed fulfilling fantasies.
    If we ever stopped dreaming, it would be time for the pitchforks and torches.

  95. rodeoruby December 13, 2010 at 4:46 pm #

    I always enjoy your comments Asoka. We have similar views although I’m not as much of an Obama fan as I used to be. That’s another topic, though.
    I also live in rural southern NM and feel like I’m in the best possible place in the U.S. for the coming crisis. As long as we get our yearly monsoons, we’ve got the best of all worlds. For those of you who’ve only seen the worst of NM, you’d be astounded by what you haven’t seen. Just as well, though. We’re doing just fine without you. Many of us out here in the middle of nowhere are growing our own food, harvesting our water, and building sensible, sustainable housing. We barter, we share and we are preparing, without the disadvantage of a dysfunctional government, for the coming changes.
    I worry about my friends and family in big cities but as the collapse becomes more evident, I’m hoping some of them will join me here in this piece of heaven. I just wish I could convince them that the coming collapse is real and not just crazy talk.
    Lynn, I always enjoy your comments and I think your diet plan is great. Positive, proactives people can make a difference and if we are to survive the future, we need more of them in our lives, even if just as blog buddies. Good luck to us all

  96. Kurt Cagle December 13, 2010 at 4:52 pm #

    What?! All this and no mention of Wikileaks?
    The revolution has begun, and like most revolutions it’s one that is starting quietly, in spare bedrooms and coffeehouses and, most importantly, the nether reaches of the Internet.
    Where are the protesters? Most of those who might take to the streets learned over the last decade that you can field 100,000 protesters with signs and voices raised and the establishment yahoos will make sure there’s 20 people on the other side of town with THEIR message on the signs that gets the airtime. The last major protest we had was Seattle in 1999, and TPTB clamped down to make sure THAT never happened again.
    Yet what happened over the weekend was mind-blowing, although you wouldn’t have known a thing if you just followed the MSM. Visa and Mastercard were brought down, as was Amazon, the US Govt site, and several others. This was done as a protest, and it was one that cost the major banksters serious money. Most of these companies were able to get back some functionality within a couple of days, but it proved to people that IT COULD BE DONE, and it taught intelligent people where the weaknesses were and how it could be done better.
    The next revolution is taking place on the Internet … right now. There is a new generation of revolutionaries that are learning how to fight guerrilla warfare in cyberspace, how to bring down companies, how to infiltrate their secrets and make them known, and even more, learning how to do it in such a way that the overwhelming advantage of the powers that be – the state and the corporatocracy’s control of force and money – work against them.

  97. xport December 13, 2010 at 4:54 pm #

    A revolutionary moment, perhaps. The country has been punked. The people are being played. Just how bold will the ownership class get before things blow up? The USA is still a country of great resources and amazing people who are of a warrior mentality. Willing to fight for what is right and just. Will we rise to the occasion?

  98. turkle December 13, 2010 at 4:54 pm #

    “Yes, Obama has turned out to be just another politician of our times, dedicated to the plight of the international wealthy who still don’t have nearly enough and whom we all wish we could be. He does what he can to help them drive more nails into our coffin of poverty. But at least we get fed fulfilling fantasies.”
    I’m really not sure that this is true. Obama seems like the kind of person who is acutely aware of class issues and imbalances. I think you just overestimate what one person can do to reform things, even the POTUS, especially in only 2 years. When I look at the laws passed under Obama thus far, it would seem to me that many were aimed at helping the middle class, e.g. student loan reform, health care reform, etc.
    I do agree that the ultra wealthy and the corporations have benefited enormously in recent times from governmental policy. But that is controlled by the Federal Reserve, which the Executive Branch has little control over. In fact, that institution prides itself on being above the influence of the political process. It is actually more like a secret private entity than a branch of the government.
    In other words, if Obama had said, “Let’s not hand out trillions in helicopter money to the big banks,” I’m not sure the Fed would have listened to him or would have been under any obligation to do so. I think the Fed deals with the Executive Branch in terms of, “Here is what we’re doing,” not, “What would you like us to do.”

  99. hugh betcha December 13, 2010 at 5:01 pm #

    some good comments here, to the 60 year old guy getting evicted: can you still work? can you garden? can you carry a 50lb bail of hay 200′ can you haul 5 gal water cans 50′ can you kneel in a garden and … garden? muck cow/horse stalls? if so, and if you are more or less an ok guy. email/post here and i’ll barder you labor for room and board. since we have the same dumb ass rep in congress (glad he lost) i assume we live in the same general area.
    work will be 2-3 hrs twice a day, rest of time is yours. of course if you’re slow and/or lazy work can be 5-6 hours twice a day. no days off. critters need to eat/drink every day and before we do.
    food is good on this farm. house is warm enough but requires longjons/ extra socks to be cozy. we live in the real world here not the plastic america that’s down the road in every direction.
    it would be good if you can work with your hands/tools. but i can teach much of that as most of our equipment is old and often needs repair. the thing about farming is that when it needs fixing it mostly needs it right now. rain/shine/night don’t much matter…
    oh, to others who think getting illegals out of country will fix jobs problem. think again, i have never found an american willing to work as hard as i need for the low salary i can afford to pay. so dw and i do it mostly ourselves.
    reality is work is not hard around here. in fact not hard at all. but it must be done every day. xmas too. no days off… sick? too bad, get up and care for the animals, then you can crawl back in bed… for awhile anyway. sick animal? tend it… tend it… tend it… till you’re sure it’s on the mend then tend it a little more to make sure.
    life is good here and we’ll be better off then 99% when tshtf. but we’ll need an armed guard rotation 24/7 after that. we’ll not risk losing life or animals to some crazed loonie out in search of a free chicken or whatever. we will however barder labor with those willing to work for a chicken or her eggs.

  100. k-dog December 13, 2010 at 5:03 pm #

    Everybody gets a tax cut! Everybody! Not just Lloyd B but all you toiling and moiling shelf-stockers and check-out cashiers. Plus, you will get a reduction of several percentage points in your payroll deductions – a redoo in the dedoo!

    But lets not forget the best part. Implementation of a yearlong payroll tax holiday that will undermine and ruin Social Security. Social Security will now contribute to the deficit giving its detractors great leverage with which to dismantle the program a year from now.
    I wish somebody would get a clue. Can anyone guess who I mean?

  101. Bustin J December 13, 2010 at 5:03 pm #

    Lisa spouted, “Would be nice not to have illegals
    But what king of jobs do they take? Construction, mostly, food deliveries, cleaning houses, what else? Construction is half dead. Food deliveries could be done by kids after school for pocket money.
    Their jobs would not even scratch the surface of unemployment”
    A more ignorant statement I could not imagine. Really.
    Immigrant, under the table, illegal workers depress wages for for the economic sectors they compete with: the lower class, unskilled, trades, the formerly middle class, etc. etc.
    The government does not collect tax revenue from these “workers”.
    These “workers” use public services which we all pay for.
    And so on, and so forth.
    Lisa V, you contemptible idiot, please stop posting and get a brain.
    the 10-30 million individuals should take their American experience and reinvest themselves in Mexico, a flailing state sorely in need of its expatriates to reform it into a real country. Pronto.
    It really is a simple equation: they leave, housing prices go down, employment goes up.

  102. hugh betcha December 13, 2010 at 5:06 pm #

    to you posters who don’t have a clue… you’re the ones who don’t know you don’t… good luck.

  103. myrtlemay December 13, 2010 at 5:27 pm #

    Promised myself to stay out of the “fray” as it were. All of this talk about a “revolution”, from JHK downward (upward)? I humbly recommend a book I read back in the early ’90s, “Anatomy of a Revolution”. Basically, it asserts that revolution (in this case, the Chineses Revolution) happens from the next-in-line to inherit “the throne”, in other words, the next in line to become the elite. When they get pinched hard enough and long enough, the will take action. Forget the balderdash of “the poor masses…etc.” Ain’t gonna happen. Never really did. Study the Revolutionary War in America. Did ya think ol Thomas Jefferson (I’m a descendent of his, not that it freaking matters)was anything less than a disinherited malcontent? Ditto other Founding Fathers. They never would have agreed to (bravely) THUMB their noses at England! I am NOT being direspectful or unthankful, but for the actions of these brave men, I wouldn’t be breathing right now. My point is, study revolution if you are interested in it. Worthy, of MINOR note, is “Generations”, a book that ATTEMPTS to dilineate American society, ad nauseum.

  104. Dayahka December 13, 2010 at 5:33 pm #

    Sorry to have to tell you this, Jim, but we’re nowhere close to any revolutionary moment. We may see an occasional outburst of emotion–or hunger–based disgust and anarchy, but that’s it. Any revolutionary moment takes organization and planning and masses of people being armed, ready, and willing to jump into action when “something” precipitates action. But there are no armed masses–armed individuals, maybe, but not masses; no organization (that I know of), and no possibility of cooperation. Any attempt by anyone to try to organize any resistance would be futile; everything we do or say–or think?–is being watched and recorded by the “security” agencies. Any possible threat to the state would be met by firm–and conclusive–force. Even if worse came to worse and there was widespread rioting, the country could call upon Blackwater–aptly named, don’t you think?–or any number of mercenary groups who would gladly massacre a few hundred or thousands of people for a few pieces of silver (though all they would get would be promissory notes for a silver that no bank has).
    So, forget it. Please try to lighten up a bit. You have a flair for words, but you are zero for all your prognostications of breakdown and catastrophe. I read you for the writing and to find out what definitely will not–never!–happen, because you prognosticate non-being, what will never be.

  105. WorldsEdge December 13, 2010 at 5:34 pm #

    Reply to Turkle: As President Obama’s first task is to be the Figurehead, the Moral Force. If he takes the position that the powerful and wealthy may take two extra servings of pie if they agree to toss a few scraps to the rest of us, this sends a terrible message.
    Congress may have to make ugly sacrifices and deals but it’s not the president’s job to beg them to do this.

  106. Phaedrus December 13, 2010 at 5:38 pm #

    We are certainly in a sorry state of affairs. There is a growing sense that things are terribly wrong, but the powers that be just keep on keeping on. Like it’s the only choice they have. There is a refusal to accept that which does not make them happy. We blindly march straight ahead without pause to think where we might be going. The rich and thier brood still have every wish and demand promptly taken care of. Of course, all they do is sit around and devise ways to make more money to the detriment of the rest of society – that is actually doing something of “real” value. No one cares about the people who can’t afford to heat their house. What little money they have goes to basic necessities. The “rich” banks and utility companies take whatever they can until there will be nothing left to take.

  107. Vlad Krandz December 13, 2010 at 5:55 pm #

    End Legal Immigration too. These South Asians are doing the jobs Americans wont do – Doctors, Engineers, Computer Programming etc. There are actually guys who make a living doing seminars on how to get around the few work visa laws that are on the books. And giants of philanthropy like Bill Gates says that America needs more H1B visas given out. Shouldn’t those bright people stay in their own Countries and let us work in our’s?
    Lisa – they haven’t even slowed down. One hundred thousand legals pour in every month – enough to crush any green shoots even if recovery was possible. Many of them wont be able to find work and will collect. Why does our goverment do it? They want the country to crash into economic and ethnic chaos. Then they will step forward with the solution – Totalitarianism.

  108. Rascal December 13, 2010 at 5:56 pm #

    antimatter, can you get an $8 per hour job? Like at a chain store or something?

  109. tzatza December 13, 2010 at 5:57 pm #

    “The Federal Reserve literally handed out trillions in zero interest loans to banks and corporations (see links in comments section from last week’s story). The bailout was only the beginning. Then these entities were able to re-lend this money at a higher interest rate, thus creating a chain of credit that grows their capital to the tune of billions. Or they could invest their free money in the markets for capital gains. So the big boys get the free money when they need it. That’s how the system works.”
    Well excuse me but last week when I said that the banks should stand or fall on their own merits you posed the question “So what were we supposed to do let the banks fail?”
    Now you want to falt the banks because this government (which can never get too large or take on too much) insisted they take bail-out money. (Paulson locked them in a room and told them, “You are ALL going to take bail out money because if some do and some don’t it will make the ones that “do” look weak and that could set off a panic.)
    So who enabled these banks to receive money at near zero rates and lend at higher than zero rates? The mother-fucking government. Yet it is the fault of the banks or capitalism when the government forced them to do what they forced them to do? Shure it is…in Turkey-lurkey land.
    “We need to make unemployment insurance last indefinitely…”
    Of course we do. We’ve done this before. It is called welfare. It doesn’t matter that it has been proven that welfare almost singlehandedly destroyed Black America by driving African American males from households in order for females to qualify for welfare payments (this leading to our current state of 72% of black babies being born to unwed mothers). No, now we must reintroduce this travesty on a permanent basis.
    “Capitalism says nothing about quality of life or moral principles for society.”
    Please. Have you forgotten the separation of chuch and state arguments? Moral principles have derived from years of legal and religious philosophies. Are you suggesting that you want business to dictate moral priciples for the society at large when local goverments have booted the very image of the baby Jesus from Christmas displays, citing the separation of chuch and state? (Of couse this in spite of the fact that “separation of chuch and state” appears nowhere in our constitution. The founders were concerned (rightly so) about the establishment of a state religion.) Period.
    But subsequent reinterpretations have brought us to the point where the mere mention of a deity in the public realm is some sort of act of a delusional person who merely wants to establish some sort of fascist state with a Christian god sitting at his right hand. And now you are suggesting that evil capitalists should weigh in on morals? Surely, you jest.
    You are so conflicted and confused in your positions regarding capitalism that you sound like Sybil in your proclamations Go off, do a little studying, get your shit together and then give it a try. Pretty please.

  110. norman December 13, 2010 at 6:00 pm #

    JHK: But, working in a supermarket, a person might find a way to cadge a few tidbits here and there (whoops, we broke a bag of Cheetos on the loading dock) – the catch there being you could get fired for stealing the merchandise. O sorry nation!
    Funny you should bring this up Jim, years ago I worked in a major supermarket bakery during the summers and my last year there they decided the employees were eating too much of their food and went after us. I was fired by two red-faced supervisors screaming in my face that I had “stolen product”.
    When I asked for an explanation they said I had been observed licking my fingers of icing before I washed my hands after frosting cakes at the end of my shift! How desperate are the corporations for every last nickel if they’d rather see food washed down the drain than down the gullets of their employees. This was a miniscule amount of food, believe me. But the CEO must be paid.

  111. turkle December 13, 2010 at 6:02 pm #

    “If he takes the position that the powerful and wealthy may take two extra servings of pie if they agree to toss a few scraps to the rest of us, this sends a terrible message.”
    I don’t see where Obama said or did this, though I’d be happy to hear your opinion on it.
    The financial bailout was a Bush program. Obama could not simply take that back when he came into office. His administration has been able to get many of the banks to pay this money back, though I’m not sure the figures can be believed. If you believe their claims (which I don’t), then only a few billion dollars amounts to “grants.”
    The stimulus was not aimed at the wealthy but mostly the middle class and the poor. It also helped bailout some faltering state governments. I guess you could say the wealthy benefited from it, but not to a greater degree than everyone else.
    The trillions in loans from the Federal Reserve to various entities was indeed a big gimme to the wealthy, but, again, I don’t see Obama having much control over this program.
    If you think he should have setup an epic confrontation with the Fed over these monies, well, I dunno. That doesn’t seem politically feasible.
    That said, the American economy is obviously just barely shambling along if trillions of dollars in loans to banks and corporations are required to sustain it.
    The tax cuts…yeah, maybe. I don’t agree with the way this is going down. Part of the reason the American government has such a large operating deficit is that the Bush tax cuts made the tax base too small. So I would have liked to have seen the cuts removed, possibly across the board.
    Again, though, I don’t think Obama thought it was politically feasible to do so.
    If you want Obama is be like an FDR, I believe you underestimate the lack of class consciousness and solidarity in the American population. Most people seem to have bought the line that poverty is caused by laziness. Poverty itself has largely been criminalized, e.g. The Drug War along with heavy restrictions on use of public space.
    So I guess you’d ask Obama to appeal to people’s “better natures,” but this doesn’t really exist. The middle class and the wealthy are interested in keeping and growing what they have and screw the people on the bottom.
    To me, a certain degree of socialism is analogous to human compassion in day to day life. And our society seems to lack this. We say to ourselves that the most poor and destitute deserve their fate, because they didn’t work hard enough. Or we label whole groups (e.g. inner city blacks) as out groups and consign them to the prison system.
    In this kind of environment, what exactly would you have Obama do? Or rather, what do you think he should do that would have any chance of actually changing this society?

  112. Bobby December 13, 2010 at 6:06 pm #

    “…Then prepare for the coming Earth changes and economic collapse by forming small communities, and loading up on food and water reserves. Dark times are nearing, and then we can consciously bring about a new reality soon, where all this doesn’t exist any more….”
    Sounds scary. I better make sure that my life insurance is paid up.

  113. Vlad Krandz December 13, 2010 at 6:06 pm #

    What is gravity but the Law of Love/Attraction operating on the physical level? Stephen J Hawking admits that the Universe seems calibrated by a Divine Hand, but he rejects it for personal reasons. He once said he hoped there was no God – an outrageous statement indicative of a desire to be God himself. Who wants a spas/crip God? He should be the last one to say such a thing.

  114. BeantownBill December 13, 2010 at 6:18 pm #

    What’s going on here> Are you trying to play with my head? I mostly agree with you, except for the immigration issue.
    Protectionism has gotten a bad rep over the past several decades. You are right that we can’t compete with slave labor. I’d have tariffs. You want to know why? Because fair trade isn’t fair. In many countries, our products aren’t allowed to compete with their products, yet when the reverse occurs, we can’t reciprocate. NAFTA in particular is pretty onerous this way.
    Repealing Glass-Steagall was a graft-driven, political sell-out which allowed the banks to ruin our economy – or more realistically – drove the final nail in the coffin of prosperity. I might add, we also ought to imprison (for a long time) every bankster who broke the law in implementing all the Ponzi schemes that brought us low, and impeach those pols who went along for the ride.

  115. networker December 13, 2010 at 6:43 pm #

    Here is a mention of Wikileaks. Interesting reading today:
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=22389

  116. turkle December 13, 2010 at 6:50 pm #

    Hey, there, tza. Nice of you to join the discussion. It is always a pleasure to hear from you.
    “Yet it is the fault of the banks or capitalism when the government forced them to do what they forced them to do?”
    So you’re saying that the big bad evil socialist government forced the poor old mega-banks and corporations at gunpoint to take trillions of dollars in zero interest loans that they didn’t actually want or need. Before this, they were chugging along just fine, right?
    Please, Mr. Paulson, don’t make me take billions in free money!
    Your explanation sounds like that scene in Reservoir Dogs where Mr. Pink is trying to describe to Nice Guy Eddie why he shot Mr. Blonde.
    Some corporations and banks did not take free government monies, because they didn’t need them and didn’t ask for them. Others did want this money and took it (Verizon and Harley Davidson, among others). And given that the Federal Reserve is run by a consortium of the largest private banks, would it make any sense if said private banks forced themselves to take these loans? No, tza, it makes no sense what you argue. What actually happened was the ultra wealthy gifted themselves trillions in free credit courtesy of the Federal Reserve.
    I’m not too confused on this point, because that’s what actually happened, regardless of all your hand waving over who is to blame (e.g. the corporations or the government). I’m fairly clear on how our system of state-sponsored capitalism continues to function, e.g. by an open spigot of free credit from the Federal Reserve.
    Not only this, but the world economy only functions with these periodic, massive injections of capital. It was not only American firms that took this money, but many foreign banks as well.
    You’re under the rather naive impression that everything would be peachy if governments took no role in propping up the financial sector, and, indeed, the entire economy. Or at least, you seem to think that late stage mega-capitalism can “stand on its own two feet” with minimal government intervention. Events of the last two to three years seem to suggest otherwise. Or at least the banks come crawling to the government for help when TSHTF for them, and they always seem to receive it. This is not a coercive system. This is capture of the government by financial interests, plain and simple.
    Your mantra is “let them fail,” no matter the possibly devastating consequences. I guess we could call that “nihilistic capitalism.” At least you’re consistent on this, though consistency is indeed the hobgoblin of small minds. To you, it would have been fine if the entire US financial system (and indeed the entire world financial system) went down in flames because, hey, at least that satisfies your libertarian political philosophy that the government should keep its “hands off” of the sacred levers of the capitalism machine.
    And what does the “war on Christmas” have to do with anything I wrote? For your own mental health, please turn off the Fox News.
    “It doesn’t matter that it has been proven that welfare almost singlehandedly destroyed Black America by driving African American males from households in order for females to qualify for welfare payments (this leading to our current state of 72% of black babies being born to unwed mothers).”
    So allow couples to receive equivalent levels of welfare so that single mothers are not encouraged and…problem solved?
    Morality is about money, too, because one needs it to survive. The survival of individuals and their quality of life is the basic root of moral issues. Capitalism says nothing about equitable or fair distribution of money and leads to a lop-sided wealth distribution. Millions may starve because they don’t have access to money in order to buy food, but that’s just fine. They must not be making enough of a profit to justify their existence, or at least not one that doesn’t involve making cakes out of mud for dinner.
    This is the system that exists, with America being at the top of it. A few percentage of the population on this planet monopolizes most of the monetary resources while those at the bottom starve or just barely get by on the scraps. Pure capitalism leads to a moral system of Social Darwinism.
    So, no, let’s not get our morality from capitalism, because it fails in this department. Miserably.

  117. networker December 13, 2010 at 7:00 pm #

    Turkle, you just may have more patience than anyone I have ever seen online. Maybe Tripp. How do you do it? How do you continue to offer up cogent argument after cogent argument, day after unrelenting day, in the face of such unappeasable, willful ignorance?
    You are a better human than I.

  118. Vlad Krandz December 13, 2010 at 7:04 pm #

    People can be expected to do what’s best for themselves – exactly, that’s why we have representative democracy so as to get some objectivity as to what’s best for the Country as a whole. Anyway, people often don’t know what’s best for themselves – polls have shown that people would vote away most of the bill of rights if a petition was cleverly worded.
    Your idea seems like capitulation – an “if you can’t beat them join them” type thing. Reminds me of Bush’s idea about illegal immigration: just legalize it and all the problems are solved.
    The Global Slavemasters would go for it in a heartbeat though. One currency means one nation and one world – just what they want. They have enough money, now they want the power to stay on top forever. How else to explain billioniare socialists like George Soros? The Elite love socialism because freezes things in place with them on top. Who suffers most from the current tax code? The upper middle class – the very people who could possibly overthrow them.

  119. CaptSpaulding December 13, 2010 at 7:26 pm #

    “The hobgoblin of small minds.” I love that phrase. Seems to me you see things pretty clearly. Excellent post.

  120. Vlad Krandz December 13, 2010 at 7:36 pm #

    A Marxist Saint. Saint Turkey. You obviously ignore and/or agree with his vicious hatred of Whites and Western Civilization. Such a small oversight. You are very advanced spiritualy too!

  121. Bustin J December 13, 2010 at 7:36 pm #

    America is a little pig.
    It lives in a brick shithouse, or so it thought, or thinks. Whatever.
    Along comes the (perceived) Big Bad Wolf.
    BBW proceeds to blow with all his might at the house. *WHEEEZE*
    Aforementioned pigs shudder in their boots imagining the walls collapsing.
    Is America so dependent on secrets that its existence or basic security is threatened by a lone man standing up and saying what is essentially, the truth?
    If so, what is the nature of American power? Is it a crystal castle that can be brought down with a magic word?
    Or is capable of embodying the values it claims as bedrock and unassailable? Does it even retain any “Hard” power?
    Wikileaks, I praise you, I thank you, I worship at (and shine) the shoes you use to stand on to tell the truth, fuck all and everywhere.
    I love it. The tide is going out and we’re going to get to see who’s swimming naked. I hope it causes a chain reaction that blows through our culture exposing all the lies and corruption on the way.
    But so far I see the sphincters tightening in Europe’s general direction. Americans are a people who are conditioned all too well to worship its overlords, and believe that all manna flows from them.
    In the sharp contrast of the truth, their buried, subconscious fear is being left out to dry, barred from the dream that they became addicted to so many years ago.
    Their whole lives hang by a thread, and that is the threat of the truth. The reflex fear of truth is rationally unreasonable, as no nation worth anything, based on anything solid, could possibly be threatened by one man standing up and speaking truth.
    I believe America is fundamentally solid and we will not see it mortally wounded by free speech.
    What I believe is that what we are witnessing is the great unmasking of the fascists, the ignorant children, the sycophants, and weak-minded in their cries to kill the messenger. Whenever such unethical, disgusting, patronizing, sanctimonious anti-morality erupts like syphilis in the population, you are witnessing the social immune system identifying the enemy. These people are the tories, the grovelling dogs in our midst, the pets of our ruling class, the pre-demential, pre-encephalitic, infantile children whose rational and ethical compasses are spinning free….

  122. ctemple December 13, 2010 at 7:40 pm #

    One of JHK’s main theories is that things are needlessly complicated, and that the people in charge are conning the American people into thinking things are good when they’re not.
    One of my main theories is that the country is stuck in the past, and for the most part the pop culture past. I saw several shows on cable over the weekend about The Beatles in general and John Lennon in particular, he’s been dead for thirty years and The Beatles haven’t played together for forty. And the same thing exists with Elvis Presley, he’s been dead for over thirty years and his heyday was over fifty years ago.
    These days came and went a long time ago, and I believe the country needs to think about the future and not keep re living this pop culture stuff.
    How could we have built the telegraphs, the railroads, the airplane industry if everyone had said, “No, I want things to stay the way they were when I was in college.”
    It was a very good posting by Jim this week.

  123. BeantownBill December 13, 2010 at 7:42 pm #

    “But one consequence of this system is the utterly inhumane and pernicious doctrine that each person needs to “make a profit” simply in order to survive in the world.”
    I think capitalistic philosophy goes even deeper than that. To make a profit is just and morally correct. To grow one’s wealth is the ultimate justification for one’s existence. This mirrors the universe around us: spacetime is ever expanding, faster and faster.
    I wish capitalism added one principle to its philosophy – capitalism with a conscience.

  124. Eleuthero December 13, 2010 at 7:49 pm #

    Superb post, Turkle. Of course, in Tza Tza
    you are dealing with a Limbaugh-esque apologist
    for the uber-rich. Like they got their money
    morally through productive activity.
    And it’s not like institutionalized embezzlement
    is limited to bank CEOs. When Carly Failure-ina
    ran HP she gave herself usurous bonuses while HP
    was losing lots of money. I suppose that, with
    Tza Tza’s reasoning, she “earned” that money and
    to “redistribute” it is “class warfare”.
    As I said a few posts ago, the only class warfare
    ACTUALLY BEING PRACTICED is the savaging of what’s
    left of the American middle class by the class of
    rich people who somehow have no “enough” switch
    in their superegos.
    Also, for those who think that the current version
    of the Republikooks represent “Constitutional
    Conservatism”, they should all be required to
    read the writings of everyone from Washington
    to Jefferson about how the system of checks and
    balances is designed to, among other things,
    prevent MONIED INTERESTS FROM CREATING AN
    OLIGARCHY.
    The illusion of democracy in the USA is creaking
    and groaning before the final fall … in 2011
    when Roubini is forecasting another $1T in
    foreclosures. The “freedom” we’ll have was
    well-described by JHK … let’s see … this
    month do I want to eat, get my medicine from
    the doctor, heat my house, or actually be able
    to fill the gas tank in my car.
    I know enough people PERSONALLY who are arriving
    at such predicaments that it doesn’t require that
    I wax academic about “statistics”. These people
    are not ciphers.
    E.

  125. BeantownBill December 13, 2010 at 7:52 pm #

    Are you serious? The Fed is always one executive order or one passed bill away from being eliminated. That it hasn’t just shows the collusion between it and the politicians.

  126. networker December 13, 2010 at 7:56 pm #

    *smooch*

  127. Phil Gannon December 13, 2010 at 7:58 pm #

    Greetings All,
    I’ve been reading this blog and comments for close to a decade. Now what really botheres me that most is the bullshit of the not fixing anything comments posted. No matter who you are not many of you really take to task what is about to happen, what is the root cause of why we are tumbling into the world of shit coming at us. There are no realistic,do-able solutions. Just point fingers of blame. It all seems to branch off into dysfunctional bullshit or some kind of anti semetic rant against Kunstler. You know it all fuckers need to look at what is happening as we blog and start to come up with do-able solutions to make society better and sustainable. Quit the Blame Game and fix what’s broke. Deal with who screwed it up later. FIX IT ! Our lifestyles that all of us have worked hard for are in the balance of turning to total shit. I’m 63 and have spent the bulk of my life working in a factory for General Motors, only to read here and elsewhere that I and my co-workers are nothing but a bunch of greedy scumabgs for wanting a decent standard of living. Never once is an eye cast at the incompentant management that has dropped the UAW handoff. We do what we are told, build it to Engineering’s spec. And if it fall’s apart or doesn’t sell, it’s the UAW’s fault. Ohhhh K ! And so many of you dumb ass sheeple really believe this ? It’s just nut’s ! Things look like they could get worse. The real solution is not “who’s at fault ?” But how can we fix what’s broke ? That seems to be the recurring theme across the blogisphere. Blame and ambiguity, but no solutions. Fucking pathetic !

  128. networker December 13, 2010 at 7:59 pm #

    Wikileaks, I praise you, I thank you, I worship at (and shine) the shoes you use to stand on to tell the truth, fuck all and everywhere.
    The power of DOD networks notwithstanding, you really should take a look at this:
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=22389

  129. turkle December 13, 2010 at 8:03 pm #

    “The Fed is always one executive order or one passed bill away from being eliminated.”
    Not really.

  130. Newfie December 13, 2010 at 8:06 pm #

    “the price of oil is fibrillating around $90-a-barrel – and nobody is paying any attention to that.”
    That is truly amazing – at least to those of us who are aware of peak oil and its implications. But I would estimate from personal experience that not 1 in 200 have the slightest idea of what peak oil is. I read through the comments on economics articles in the papers and the readers seem pretty much clueless about the underlying cause of the malaise we are experiencing. The price of oil is almost never mentioned. Even when you put it under their nose they don’t get it. For example, Paul Krugman wouldn’t know peak oil if he tripped and fell over it. That kind of wide spread ignorant of the facts of life would suggest there will be a swift decline and collapse. And even after it happens they still will be in the dark. I hate to say it but it looks hopeless. The first step in solving a problem is to get a good grasp of what the problem is.

  131. Malagodi December 13, 2010 at 8:21 pm #

    ?”We find ourselves in a decelerating system…” Ok, good, it’s about time. So can we and the rest of the world decelerate rationally, or will it follow Dick Cavett’s axiom “Death is nature’s way of telling you to slow down.”

  132. turkle December 13, 2010 at 8:22 pm #

    Hi, Phil.
    In general, there’s no fixing anything with a comment on a blog. One can present a set of solutions to all society’s problems, but from what I’ve seen, these often boil down to an “If I were the dictator” scenario and therefore do not inhabit the realm of the possible.
    “There are no realistic,do-able solutions.”
    Well, I’m not sure if this is something you attribute to us or something you are arguing, but I believe there is a lot of truth to it in certain areas. Maybe there aren’t “fixes” to certain problems, at least not ones that we find acceptable.
    For instance, the problem of overpopulation is worsening and will certainly become even more nightmarish as society’s resource base declines and people continue to breed. So what is the solution? It is reduction in world population to sustainable levels, and nature will do this for us if we don’t do it ourselves. But no one seems to want to bring it into the realm of possibilities, because it isn’t considered an acceptable resolution to drastically shrink world population.
    What is the solution for “too big to fail” banks and corporations?
    One idea would be to cut them all off from the Federal Reserve free credit trough. That would certainly make them fail and drastically contract. But is it an acceptable solution? Again, I think the devastating effect this would have on the economy means that most people would not find this to their liking.
    “But how can we fix what’s broke?”
    Take the case of GM, for whom you used to work. The solution, at least for now, was having the government take them over and force a restructuring. Now the company is profitable. So that situation is somewhat fixed, but some don’t think that it is an acceptable to have the government take such a strong role in the private sector. You’re always going to have detractors, and not everyone will agree that a fix is really a fix. We’re not talking about fixing a car here and replacing parts. This is messy, nebulous political warfare by its very nature.
    So for something to be viable as a fix, it must first be politically (and morally, etc.) acceptable to enough people.
    It must be doable, e.g. it doesn’t require an enlightened dictatorship to implement.
    How many people’s proposed solutions to the world’s problems pass those two basic requirements?
    As far as making a difference, we all seem to want to be keyboard warriors. But a comments section on a blog is not the place to implement any real solutions. You have to get out into the real world to do this. And along with this reality is the fact that most people want to sit back and let other people do the fixing and not get their hands dirty. Since if this is the case that most people don’t actually want to participate in this endeavor of real world problem solving, we, individually, shouldn’t be surprised when solutions are not to our liking.
    Anyways, what problems are you talking about that need fixing? You have to talk specifics, or it amounts to a bunch of hand-waving and name-calling. Some problems are more easily solved than others. Some problems have easy solutions. Some problems have NO solutions that we would deem acceptable (a brutal truth).
    Good luck out there.

  133. hugh betcha December 13, 2010 at 8:30 pm #

    phil, well, i don’t blame the uaw workers, but the uaw leaders didn’t help it’s members either. so i have no sympathy for any of them.
    i have no sympathy for anyone anymore. shitty job? quit! too much debt? quit spending!
    but people don’t quit, people don’t fix their own lives cause it’s too hard. or too risky that they will end up worse off by taking personal action.
    GM will fail again and again and again… till it’s gone.
    sadly there are no workable solutions short of complete collapse. mostly we need to fix the population overshoot that free energy produced. how do you “fix” that?
    nature fixes population overshoot fast and effectively. massive die-off and collapse.
    resources do not exist to plan and implement a 100-300 year population reduction plan.
    america can maybe support a 100-150 million souls. we are at 320+ million. how do you fix that?
    oil and food will fix it right quick when there is not enough oil there will be nowhere near enough food. he who grows the food will likely get to eat it… if he can guard it…
    all the mega farms in our “farm belt” are not farms like most people envision a farm. they are giant corn and soy factories manufacturing the inputs to feed a global food processing industry.
    you can’t even eat what’s grown on americas mega farms. it must be processed first.
    all the real farms in america might be able to feed 25 million folks. not many more then that. there are very few real farms left in the usa.
    most of us farmers are in our 50’s now. the learning curve to farm is long and shallow. you don’t just farm. it takes a long time and lots of missteps to slow you down and eat up your cash.
    the core problem however is population overshoot. how do you solve an unsolvable problem? answer, you don’t.
    nature needs to take it’s course, and it will sooner wrather then later it seems.
    peak everything will see to it, i’m pretty sure.

  134. turkle December 13, 2010 at 8:40 pm #

    It seemed like there was a small window when Peak Oil made it onto the mainstream radar (I remember a Time magazine cover story among other things). I have to think that more than 1 in 200 understands at least some of the issues associated with it.
    Most people do not think of the future beyond a few months, much less many years (at least I remember reading a psychological study that argued this). When you start to talk about ten or twenty years from now, this is like saying “forever.” When POers say things like production decline will occur in this sort of time frame, it doesn’t even register with people. Because they are worried about now or maybe now + 60 days.
    And when you start to talk about what happens 100 years down the road, when fossil fuels really will be in extreme scarcity (one assumes), you might as well be talking astrology for all people care.
    The older generation, say the Baby Boomers, are largely aware of resource issues. If you talk with people from that generation, you’d be surprised just how aware. But they hope that things will only really get bad after they’re dead and that their wealth will carry them through retirement into a nappy funeral. Or the old “someone will think of something” self-soothing routine has made a big comeback (electric cars! solar windows! etc.). The scientists will come up with a solution right at the last minute is the thinking I often here from people.
    The younger generation, say those under 30, are largely unaware, because this is a pretty uneducated group. Or those who are aware generally don’t talk about it except on these kinds of websites. Because when you talk about how civilization will collapse as oil peaks and declines at, say, your little Christmas Party or whatever, it’s just a bummer, man. It is outside the whole “I’m okay. You’re okay.” paradigm, which most people want to maintain at all costs.
    As far as the current cost of oil, it really isn’t that high. It seems to me that it is edging up again, but you’re talking about 15 or 20 cents more per gallon, i.e. fairly marginal increases that most people can deal with for now. Even judging by how European societies are still able to function with high gas prices, I’d guess we have a ways to go.
    Now when the price of oil (and other fossil fuels) starts to oscillate wildly or let’s say when oil doubles in price, then there will no denying that TSHTF. And anyone who is in the least bit well informed will understand why this is happening. Of course, there will be the usual collection of cargo cultists and faith-based low-information nabobs who say it is all a conspiracy of the oil companies, OPEC, etc. But at some point, I’m guessing that most people will actually know what’s up.

  135. Vlad Krandz December 13, 2010 at 8:43 pm #

    Why not immigration, Bill? How many do you want? The Establishment plans to have 400 million here by 2050. A complete Tower of Babel, an ethnic stew simmering in blood. And consider the ecological catastrophe of 400 million. Two hundred million was more than enough. Try to be objective, please. Yes, the top of the pyramid will benefit as the bigger the base the higher the top. But there is a limit – do the Judeo-Masonic Elite understand limits? Sure it’s good for your people – the more diverse, the more power a unified people can have. But you will get into the Law of Diminishing Returns. Certainly Jewish quality of life will go down as the ungrateful minorities make their bids for power. You never appreciated us and you will not until we are completely dispossesed. No more White Middle Class to buffer you against your dark children.

  136. BeantownBill December 13, 2010 at 8:51 pm #

    I generally feel uncomfortable with all the doom and gloom and recessive thinking. Forget about TPTB and the Elite. Think deeper, try to look at the big picture. We’re living in a time of great technological change, which inevitably brings existential angst, strife and unrest. We’re trying to head to an advanced, technological and unimaginable future. Like Tripp says, we are heading towards a keyhole event. Where I disagree with him is what happens to us when we emerge into the other side of that keyhole.
    Every point along the axis of time eventually becomes the present. Beyond every present point lies an infinity of futures. CFNers mostly envision the whole subset of potential futures that send us to death and destruction or a simpler, more rural way of life, like the 18th century,or both. There are valid reasons to believe these futures will actually occur.
    But, there’s another subset of potential futures, ones in which we advance. There are also valid reasons to believe these futures will occur. Which future we embrace is therefore an individual, personal decision. For me, I choose the ones where we advance, not degenerate.

  137. turkle December 13, 2010 at 8:57 pm #

    “i have no sympathy for anyone anymore.”
    I think you sell yourself short. Your post directed at antimatter suggests that you are a sympathetic person.
    Instead of saying to him, “screw you…I got mine” (the response of a truly unsympathetic person), you offered him work on your farm.
    It’s probably the nicest thing I’ve ever seen anyone write in this comments section.
    Best wishes.

  138. BeantownBill December 13, 2010 at 9:09 pm #

    There’s no doubt a limit to population sustainability. The question is, what is that limit? I remember thirty or so years ago reading about some Russian scientists claiming the Earth could support a human population of 14 billion. If that’s true, we are halfway there.
    When I was 8 years old, The US population was 150 million. It’s now about 310 million. Yet we’re still chugging along. My feelings about immigration have nothing to do with being Jewish. It’s based on my father being an immigrant himself. So please don’t turn this into a discussion about the Jews.

  139. lbendet December 13, 2010 at 9:11 pm #

    It’s the Incredible Shrinking Middle Class!!
    Ah the conversation overheard at the supermarket is right out of Dickens, what perfect timing –just in time for Christmas-and the glorious tax cuts benefiting the richest 2% big-time!
    The Republican track record is abysmal for job creation, but they can keep the spiel going even if the economy still produces no jobs in 2 years they still win their case. If you use the logic that you simply can’t raise taxes during a recession. You can fool people over and over again these days. Don’t forget, the jobs aren’t coming back for five years….
    This is a glimpse of the dwindling middle class and the burgeoning of the working poor. And how could it have turned out any differently than it has?
    The Democrats lost their footing a long time ago and the norm has been the Republican mantra of the two Santa Clauses.The Jude Wanniski’s supply-side economy and Laffer’s tax-cut theories along with free trade have slowly brought this country down. At first we didn’t notice, but it’s all too clear now and these idiots want more of the same, claiming its going to be different this time.
    Both sides of the aisle buy into it. Only poor Bernie Sanders is left howling at the moon.
    Our pols are pleased as punch, after all they’re all in the business of getting rich.
    Yesterday on Fareed Zacharia, he said someone in China is laughing.
    They will hand us the rope with which to hang ourselves. They’ll Keep lending us money to pay the rich while they are investing $1.3 Trillion on high end jobs–
    ——huh? That’s what we thought we were doing—
    Well it ain’t happening and soon you too will be willing to work for any low wage they will be offering.
    This century belongs to China. Oh, what a theory, what an economic system!

  140. Headless December 13, 2010 at 9:13 pm #

    Re: Revolution
    In a country that can conjure a wacko crazy enough to kill John Lennon, you’d think we could muster up more than a few people willing to plant Lloyd Blankfein’s head on a stick in front of 85 Broad–along with Greenspan’s, Dimon’s, Geithner’s, Paulson’s, Cheney’s, and…you know, like a string of Christmas lights or balding lanterns.
    Dear Santa,
    All I want for Christmas is…and I’d willing to blow you if you’d do this for me.

  141. cunning runt December 13, 2010 at 9:14 pm #

    I would refuse to belong to a blog that would have someone like me for a member.

  142. turkle December 13, 2010 at 9:15 pm #

    Hi, Bill.
    Thanks for the thoughtful post.
    I guess the problem I have with your line of thinking is that so-called doomer scenarios are firmly based in reality, whereas those that posit an “advanced, technological” future for most of mankind are not. They are based in cargo cult like fantasies and science fiction like Star Trek.
    Doomers have examples of modern countries that fit their predictions (Somalia for instance).
    The “business as usual” trajectory of increasing population combined with decreasing resources cannot possibly lead to a future where the bulk of humanity advances, at least not by any modern standard. Or if the future is significantly more advanced, it will only be for the segment of the population that has access to this high technology society. The global per capita usage of energy peaked in the early seventies and has been declining. This trend is unlikely to reverse. And high energy use per capita is part and parcel of any advanced, technological system.
    Only a minority of the world’s population takes part in advanced, technological society in our world. Most people do not have electricity, telephones, running water, or let alone the internet. Most people do not own automobiles. Many do not have access to clean drinking water and adequate sanitation systems.
    And here’s the quandary. As more and more people strive to belong to the advanced technological society to experience the good life, the resource base becomes more strained, thus shutting people out from it.
    So maybe from your perch in America (presumably) you can state that we are going to enter the technological singularity. We will have a whole new advanced, technological golden age.
    Meanwhile, people in most of the rest of the world struggle to find drinking water that doesn’t have shit in it.

  143. ozone December 13, 2010 at 9:16 pm #

    “But, there’s another subset of potential futures, ones in which we advance. There are also valid reasons to believe these futures will occur. Which future we embrace is therefore an individual, personal decision. For me, I choose the ones where we advance, not degenerate.” -Beans
    I take your point, but I’m of a mind that circumstance will be doing the choosing. I s’pose that the “type” of personalities emerging on that other side will dictate the direction[s] that humanity will take, as well.
    I don’t denigrate your hopefulness; I just don’t think there will be much in the way of techno-advancement for quite some time (with bare survival being paramount). I’ll be preparing for some brutish shit, but here’s hoping things turn out YOUR “chosen” way. :o)

  144. Qshtik December 13, 2010 at 9:16 pm #

    Referring to a Turkle comment, CaptSpaulding said: “The hobgoblin of small minds.” I love that phrase.
    ==========
    Capt, I hope you realize that Turkle was quoting a famous line from Ralph Waldo Emerson and doing so without attribution. Like many who have used this line feeling it supports their point of view, Turkle leaves out the most important word: foolish.
    The correct quote is:
    “a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.” I have my differences with TZA but his consistency has not been foolish.
    I’m quite disappointed to see you giving kudos to Turkle for “seeing things clearly.” I couldn’t disagree more. With Turkle’s thinking there will never be an end to bailouts, fiat money and the monster of ever-growing BIG Socialist Govt. I abhor all three.
    It is inevitable that these elements of our political and financial life will continue and grow worse since we have already advanced so far down the path. But some day, almost unexpectedly, I envision it coming to a dramatic end … perhaps like the demise of the Soviet Union and the tearing down of the Berlin Wall. When? I have no idea.

  145. bproman December 13, 2010 at 9:18 pm #

    A lump of coal in your stocking might just come in handy this winter.

  146. turkle December 13, 2010 at 9:21 pm #

    “So please don’t turn this into a discussion about the Jews.”
    Vlad can turn any topic into a discussion about the Jews. It is one of his (few) talents.

  147. ozone December 13, 2010 at 9:28 pm #

    Aha! A Groucho aficionado, eh?

  148. turkle December 13, 2010 at 9:41 pm #

    Hey, Q.
    “With Turkle’s thinking there will never be an end to bailouts, fiat money and the monster of ever-growing BIG Socialist Govt.”
    I am more interested in seeing the big picture clearly than in being right.
    You seem primarily interested (as usual) in assigning some value judgment to one side or the other, i.e. the government is bad, and corporations/banks/capitalism are good.
    I don’t really see most things this way. In reality, there is not so much of a clear distinction between the public and the private sectors. They are intertwined, sometimes inseparably.
    And I find it ironic that the government against which the financial libertarians so often rail, was the same one that they all came crying to for free money when their financial “instruments” turned to shit.
    So if capitalists want less government, so be it. But they actually don’t. At its most developed level, capitalism requires central banking to provide extreme liquidity in the form of zero interest loans in order to keep the system going. If this was not provided, economies would have periods of extreme contraction as credit dried up (Great Depression Part II anyone?). This system allows large corporations to receive profits in the good times and then charge taxpayers their losses in the bad times. Part and parcel to this system is fiat money.
    Neat, isn’t it?
    Anyways, Q, I’d love it if you’d provide me with other models for how advanced capitalistic societies can function. Because I don’t see any. Most of the advanced countries on this planet (Japan, Germany, etc.) have far more socialism than the United States. Don’t you think there’s a reason for this other than big bad socialist government is evil?
    If it is so evil, why do the best countries (economically speaking, quality of life, etc.) seem to love it so much?

  149. CaptSpaulding December 13, 2010 at 9:58 pm #

    Hi Qshtik. I hated the idea of the bailouts, but I think they were a necessary evil because of the potential for catastrophic damage to the economy. I have no doubt that things would be much worse right now, if all those institutions had been left to go belly up. The part that chaps my hide is that congress passed up their chance to install some firmer regulations and require Goldman Sachs and the others of their ilk to follow them. Once the damage had been done (derivatives, etc,) there was no choice but to try to control the damage. Having said that however, I also understand that Congress is now controlled by the corporations, and nothing good will come of that. Sadly, our country is spiraling downwards, and like many other countries who have collapsed, the end stages involve corruption on a vast scale. Unfortunately, it seems to have taken on a momentum all it’s own and appears (at least to me, unstoppable. I’d like to be proven wrong, but I don’t think I am. I guess only time will tell.

  150. turkle December 13, 2010 at 10:02 pm #

    “I have my differences with TZA but his consistency has not been foolish.”
    Tza clings bitterly to her philosophy of Laissez-faire capitalism as the solution to all the world’s problems, even when it is shown to be non-functional, inapplicable, inhumane, or otherwise flawed. She waves away all doubts with her magic market wand. She allows no exceptions to the absolute rule that other concerns for society, moral or otherwise, must be subordinated to this worldview. The well-being and stability of entire economies and countries, the sustaining of important institutions, and a reasonable social safety net must take a backseat or get out of the car while capitalism drives where it may.
    If that isn’t a foolish consistency (or at least the consistency of a fool), I don’t know what is.

  151. asia December 13, 2010 at 10:17 pm #

    ‘It’s the Incredible Shrinking Middle Class’
    see saws with the population explosion in the turd world and some of its unemployed ‘masses’ dumped on the usa
    its relative.

  152. asia December 13, 2010 at 10:21 pm #

    ‘My feelings about immigration’
    GTE BEYOND YR FEELINGS / SENTIMENTS AND USE YR CONSIDERABLE INTELLIGENCE.
    issues of nations and national security shouldnt be jeopordized by [cuddly] feelings.
    if you want to read abouthow US jews usually side with the left even when its dead wrong then read coulters ‘TREASON’

  153. asia December 13, 2010 at 10:22 pm #

    THE GOLDEN RULE
    HE WHO HAS THE GOLD MAKES THE RULES….hahahaha
    and its tough for the rest of us!

  154. turkle December 13, 2010 at 10:22 pm #

    Ann Coultier? Seriously dude?

  155. asia December 13, 2010 at 10:24 pm #

    decade?
    how long has this website existed?

  156. asia December 13, 2010 at 10:28 pm #

    how many ‘amnestys’ [since raygun did the first] have we had?
    and how many millions got amnesty?

  157. turkle December 13, 2010 at 10:28 pm #

    “GTE BEYOND YR FEELINGS / SENTIMENTS AND USE YR CONSIDERABLE INTELLIGENCE.
    issues of nations and national security shouldnt be jeopordized by [cuddly] feelings.
    if you want to read abouthow US jews usually side with the left even when its dead wrong then read coulters ‘TREASON'”
    Was that supposed to be an example of intelligence?
    Or did you misspell every other word on purpose?

  158. asia December 13, 2010 at 10:35 pm #

    LISA
    ‘they’ immigrants [legal or not] refugees, visitors, illegals..fill the schools, prisons,streets, Hospitals.
    doubt it?
    go look at the grade schools in pomona cali.
    90% illegals, anchor babies or immigrants or their children.
    one of my friends works 3 jobs [ 50 to 100+ hrs a week] so his kids dont go to school with ‘them’..
    after all their 8th grade maybe teaches what you learned in second grade..maybe.
    however that is more and more true in all public schools.
    little is taught from what i hear.
    a friend has nephews in grade school in silicon valley and thats what he says.
    THATS TAX DOLLARS AT WORK , FOOL.

  159. asia December 13, 2010 at 10:37 pm #

    ‘ a minority of the world’s population takes part in advanced, technological society in our world’
    public radio….’1 in 5 in haiti has a cell phone.
    but they dont have bank accounts..its similar in india.’

  160. BeantownBill December 13, 2010 at 10:38 pm #

    My viewpoint is not based on wishful thinking. We’ve been advancing our scientific knowledge for centuries. Scientific knowledge eventually gets applied through engineering. Why should that stop now, after it’s been happening throughout most of humanity’s existence (e.g., the use of tools, producing fire, inventions of the wheel, the lever, etc.)?
    It’s kind of like investing. My 1st financial advisor told me to always follow the trend. In this case, the trend has always been that science and technology has mostly allowed us to advance.
    Yes, I know we may have too many people for the resources we have left. But again, there’s that pesky trend.
    CFNers remind me of the story of the two mice trapped in the vat of milk. You probably have heard it, it’s almost a cliche. Two mice are swimming around and around trying to stay afloat and getting exhausted. One mouse finally says, “There’s no way out, we’re doomed.” And he stops swimming, and of course, he drowns. The second mouse just can’t give up and he keeps swimming and swimming. Eventually the milk turns to butter and the mouse scrambles on top of it and hops out of the vat – and he had a good meal of butter, too.
    I’m the 2nd mouse. I hope I’m right and the vat turns to butter. I don’t claim to be right – it’s the way I think, based on my experience.

  161. BeantownBill December 13, 2010 at 10:50 pm #

    Actually, I don’t want to read about how the Jews usually side with the left. Didn’t I say I didn’t want this discussion to become a Jewish issue?
    And, my feelings about immigration are my right to have. It is customary, in polite society, to validate someone else’s feelings, even if you don’t agree with the basis of those feelings. Feelings aren’t right or wrong, they’re just…feelings.

  162. BeantownBill December 13, 2010 at 10:52 pm #

    I believe the saying is, “He who has the gold, rules”.

  163. turkle December 13, 2010 at 11:24 pm #

    “in polite society”
    You must be kinda new here…

  164. asoka December 13, 2010 at 11:25 pm #

    Tripp said: I won’t pile on Asoka about moving to the desert southwest. Water is almost gone there, so please don’t listen to such tom-foolery, folks.
    Tom-foolery? Water almost gone?
    Tripp just a few weeks ago you quoted this from Toby Hemenway:
    I entered the yard through a gap between arching trees, and the temperature plummeted. The air here was fresh, cool, moist, unlike the dusty, sinus-withering stuff I’d been breathing outside. A canopy of walnut trees, pinon pine, and New Mexico black locust sheltered a lush understory of pomegranates, nectarines, jujube trees, and almonds. An edible passionflower swarmed up a rock wall. Grapevines arched over an entry trellise. Two small ponds sparkled with rainwater caught by the adobe house’s roof.
    This is from the book, “Gaia’s Garden,” on the permaculture site built by Santa Fe, NM, sculptor Roxanne Swentzell.
    Then you went on to comment:
    From what I understand, the soil and climate at her site, now known as Flowering Tree Permaculture Institute, were typical brutal high desert. She describes the place as “no trees, no plants, no animals, just pounded-down dirt and lots of ants.”
    Then you added this:
    I’m also aware of a Texas scientist/engineer? who invented a tractor implement that basically creates a pattern of depressions in the hardpan (of west Texas desert soils). The little depressions have proved to be a mighty force in revegetating large tracts of desert land, as they give blowing seeds and water a place to settle.
    I personally performed a follow-up experiment in my Washington garden last year. There was a small section of southern slope that was hard as a rock. My wife and mom-in-law said nothing, not even grass, had ever grown there. So I tried the divet thing I learned from this guy, knocking a chunk of god-awful concrete-like soil out of the slope in a diagonal pattern every 18 inches with a spade. In this case I mulched the area with some wheat straw too. According to father-in-law, it’s now deep black fertile soil. Just another part of the garden. About an hour of work converted ~150 s.f. of wasteland into productive garden loam.

    Now, in response to my suggestion that the southwest might be a viable place to live, suddenly permaculture is not being lauded.
    Suddenly, “Water is almost gone there, so please don’t listen to such tom-foolery, folks.”
    I don’t know if you are aware, Tripp that intensive mining operations are resuming in the southwest and 500 skilled productions workers are being hired right now.
    [sarcasm on] Strange, how these multinational corporations don’t know that mining is water intensive. Strange they didn’t do any studies to discover that “water is almost gone” in the southwest … strange they apparently don’t know they are about to lose millions of dollars and waste all that money hiring 500 workers. Their operation will go bust because “water is almost gone there”.[sarcasm off]
    Tripp, permaculture is the answer, not just in Georgia, but in the southwest USA, too.
    Your characterization of “tom foolery” is inappropriate and your comment today is a contradiction of your own deeply held beliefs in permaculture possibilities in the desert, possibilites expressed by you not long ago from experiences in NM and from your experience in Washington State.
    You must be large, too. :-0
    You must contain multitudes. :-0

  165. asoka December 13, 2010 at 11:36 pm #

    Vlad said: “Southern New Mexico, if not the whole State, seems to have been ceded to Mexico without them telling anybody (illegaly). So any White or Black who lives there is going to have to deal with people who consider him an interloper.”
    Vlad, are you speaking from your personal experience? What happened to you in the southwest?

  166. WorldsEdge December 13, 2010 at 11:40 pm #

    I think a lot of us believe that this nation is in big trouble and a major cause of this is the vast wealth and power that has accrued to a small minority. I, however, don’t think the next step is for things to generally fall apart. I think what’s going to happen is that we and our resources will get driven down to the lowest possible value. Then the enclaved wealthy, the big state welfare beneficiaries, those same international folk who invest all their money in other nations, can come in and buy up everything at bottom dollar.
    I believe the future of this nation is even more grim than many imagine. Not only do we lose our wealth, we lose our independence. We become the purchased vassals of our new owners. We’ll till their fields and dig in their mines for subsistence wages. As everything will be privatized, we’ll have no say.

  167. progressorconserve December 13, 2010 at 11:50 pm #

    Funny stuff to BeanTown:
    “in polite society”
    You must be kinda new here…
    +============
    Regarding immigration –
    Bean – I’ve got to ask: Is there not some upper limit which US populations should not exceed?

  168. James December 13, 2010 at 11:51 pm #

    I am always delighted to read these hilarious comments about people hoarding firewood and gold bars under their mattresses. Do you people know how crazy you sound?
    Meanwhile, in the real world, this has been one of the best years ever for me. I bought the car of my dreams (a new M3 — 15 mpg, seats two and a bag of groceries), a new house ($850k) and for my wife’s birthday this year, we shopped at Bvlgari (its a jewelery store for those of you up there in the sticks) followed by a 13-course French dinner. (13 courses is a bit too many in my opinion, btw but the shaved white truffles are excellent this year). I even socked away 10 cases of Bordeaux and 3 cases of champagne for the party season. I totted up my expenditures for 2010 and they are close to a million dollars all-in.
    Credit and leverage are flowing freely for those of us who know how to navigate the system, stretch the truth a little when necessary and not lose a moment’s sleep over any of it. So you can either freeze your butts off up there in the woods or come down here and join the party! I know where I’ll be in 2011 …
    Cheers!
    The Bay Aryaan

  169. turkle December 14, 2010 at 12:21 am #

    “hoarding firewood and gold bars under their mattresses”
    How do you hoard firewood under a mattress? I’d like to see this.

  170. progressorconserve December 14, 2010 at 12:22 am #

    Antimatter and Vlad –
    Antimatter – hang in there. I know that’s easy for somebody to say – all the more so in the anonymous internet like this. The anger and frustration flies out from your post. ANYONE in these United States should have sympathy – and understand that only lucky breaks of chance, birth, or fate separate us from something similar.
    – even that Bay Aryaan – who just posted!!!
    You write well, anti – maybe that can help you find a way to help others understand as you dig out of the situation you’re in right now.
    ==============
    And Vlad – your advice was spot on and practical – both for Antimatter and for the Country. I had to look up the figure for myself – to be sure.
    And it’s amazing – there really have been 10 million LEGAL immigrants allowed into the US over the past 10 years.
    And no telling how many illegal immigrants. No wonder there is an unemployment problem that won’t go away.
    ===========
    I can’t resist one little dig at you though, Vlad.
    You say to AntiMatter:
    “Get to a big city that has alot of social services for the homeless. I was just in Spokane and they seem to have alot. I’ve heard Portland is very good, plus the climate is much milder. Also, at least for now, Orgegon is still controlled by Liberals.”
    ===========
    So Vlad – even you admit that when times get tough that it’s best to be surrounded by liberals.
    I do believe my work here is done!
    Nah, just kidding.

  171. Madcat December 14, 2010 at 12:35 am #

    Hey Bay Aryaan,
    Thanks for the invitation! Now what did you say your address was again?
    Hope you’ve got a club lock on that M3 – they’re a great vehicle for ram raids…
    Cheers,
    Madcat

  172. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2010 at 12:45 am #

    You have a private right to your “feelings”. Maybe your friends are interested in them. But this is a pubic forum – your feelings are not any kind of evidence of anything discussed here. Don’t believe me? Take some LSD and maybe you’ll feel that you can fly. Many have before you. Go with your feeling and tell us how it goes. Hint: just try it from the second floor just in case. Not tryin’ to bum trip you, man. Feel me?

  173. BeantownBill December 14, 2010 at 1:15 am #

    There absolutely is an upper population limit. In 1999, estimates of the Earth’s carrying capacity were computed taking into account some limiting factors, including depletion of fossil fuels (only small amounts left).
    If the entire world was to have the same standard of living as the US with regard to our health, nutrition and freedom, the maximum population is 2 billion (less than 1/3rd of the present world pop. of 6.8 bllion). That implies a maximum US population of under 100 million.
    If the whole world had the same affluence as the US, but with a total laissez faire economy with few environmental restrictions, the maximum world population would be .5 billion.
    If the whole world had the same level of affluence as the US, but had many severe restictions on personal behaviors, such as limited driving, restrictions on the transportation of food, massive recycling, etc., the maximum population would be 4 billion (implying a US pop. of under 200 million).
    If only the US and Europe had its current level of prosperity, with the rest od the world at the prosperity level of Mexico, the maximum pop. would be 6 billion, pretty much what it is now.
    If the entire world had he prosperity level of Mexico, the maximum poputlation would be 20 billion, with a US pop. of 900 million. And if the whole world had the same prosperity level as northeast Africa, the maximum population would be 40 billion (US at 1.8 billion).
    So although there is a maximum ppulation limit, that number varies according to levels of behavior and prosperity.

  174. BeantownBill December 14, 2010 at 1:22 am #

    You are missing the point. I’m saying I have a right to my feelings. I’m not saying they’re evidence of anything. And you don’t have to agree with the reasons behind my feelings. But you ought to validate the fact that I do have those feelings in the first place (which you did in your last post to me).

  175. cowswithguns December 14, 2010 at 3:14 am #

    Did I hear that right, possibly record bonuses for Wall Streeters this year?
    Damn! Treat these assholes like publicly owned utilities — they got bailed out by both Treasury and the Fed after all — and control their pay.
    If these fucks ran the Postal Service they’d be demanding like $100 million in compensation. Say what you will about USPS, but the head gets like $260,000.

  176. Eleuthero December 14, 2010 at 3:18 am #

    LBendet wrote:
    “The Democrats lost their footing a long time ago and the norm has been the Republican mantra of the two Santa Clauses.The Jude Wanniski’s supply-side economy and Laffer’s tax-cut theories along with free trade have slowly brought this country down. At first we didn’t notice, but it’s all too clear now and these idiots want more of the same, claiming its going to be different this time.
    Both sides of the aisle buy into it. Only poor Bernie Sanders is left howling at the moon. ”
    **************************************************
    Precisely, pal!! Although you’ll hardly find
    a Dem who confesses to practicing supply-side
    economics, handing trillions of dollars to the
    worst stewards of capital since the Mississippi
    Company and expecting banks to stimulate the
    economy with it is supply-side with a Southern
    Pentacostalists faith behind it. And what did
    any of these miscreants from Paulson to Dimon
    to Pandit to Blankfein do to earn a scintilla
    of “faith”.
    Though none of the corruptly-sponsored biz
    channels on TV want to dwell on it for more
    than a few nanoseconds, they all let a five
    second news ticker slip in about how banks
    are hoarding money, not lending it. The
    entire reason why the stock market is rising
    is because banks and venture guys are squeezing
    their wallets tighter than they squeeze their
    anal sphincter. The reality is that these
    assholes want YOU to have FAITH in them while
    their money-hoarding shows ZERO faith in all
    potential borrowers. So the money goes into
    the only avenue left … portfolio speculation.
    But that is what chaps my hide … we are
    collectively being asked not only to FORGIVE
    the swindlers, we’re being asked to have FAITH
    that they have conscience enough to do the right
    thing with the monies handed to them. Fool me
    once, shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you.
    E.

  177. Eleuthero December 14, 2010 at 3:23 am #

    Correction: Fool me once, shame on you.
    Fool me twice, shame on ME. And judging
    from recent polls, the American people,
    despite much denigration of them, are
    actually warming up to the idea of
    abolishing the Fed or at least auditing
    it.
    E.

  178. lbendet December 14, 2010 at 7:36 am #

    E.,
    With Ron Paul in place it will be discussed. I wonder whether the discussion will be behind closed doors or open to the public.
    It’s been pointed out a few times yesterday that there are nine people who control the derivatives world wide and they only work in the dark.
    I don’t see these guys giving up their power so fast. Maybe RP will choke on a pretzel.

  179. John O December 14, 2010 at 7:48 am #

    A Revolution?
    I am Technologist, and I do not think that could happen, for many of the reasons stated on this Blog site in the last 24 hours.
    As I make my comments here, please note that EVERYTHING we say over the phone, put in emails, put on the WEB in Facebook or LinkedIn, or wherever, is being watched and recorded. Does not matter what kind of encryption you use or what kind of proxy server.
    The CALEA Act is just one example, then the Patriot Act right after 9-11. (it was already in the works)but just a coincidence? This “group” has thought of just about everything and they even had the “private sector “throw in” Facebook, other social networks, and the revolutionary search engine Google. Oh, forgot video surveillance, body scanners and such. Oh, and the real big one, they control our money and credit, oh, and our food supply.
    So they see us, hear us, read us, track us, and watch us, along with gruesome anti riot gear and techniques. So perhaps after total collapse, but not before. And after a military coup, there will be no representation of the people after the suspension of habeas corpus, but we will still pay our taxes…. http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec9.html
    All the technology you could ever want is now available to pull this off. Makes 1984 look like a walk in the park in my opinion.
    JO-Atlanta

  180. lbendet December 14, 2010 at 8:31 am #

    Saddly Jo-Atlanta you are so right.
    I always laugh when I hear people talking about the right to bear arms when even on TV you can see shows about the latest crowd control technology being researched and implemented. There are ways of keeping people back by directing extreme heat, so they can’t bear to move any closer. (micro-wave?)
    There’s also extreme sound to keep people from moving forward. They don’t have to use lethal force to stop a demonstration.
    I think that’s really why people don’t take to the streets like they did during the Viet Nam war. They just know it’s going to be a losing battle and there will be the devil to pay.

  181. Chris C December 14, 2010 at 8:55 am #

    “Obama seems like the kind of person who is acutely aware of class issues and imbalances. I think you just overestimate what one person can do to reform things, even the POTUS, especially in only 2 years. When I look at the laws passed under Obama thus far, it would seem to me that many were aimed at helping the middle class, e.g. student loan reform, health care reform, etc.”
    ABSOLUTELY! It is the well-funded, Goebbels-style propagandizing by TPTB that makes so many people take a stand AGAINST their own self-interest. Astounding, but it is just Marketing 101.

  182. Funzel December 14, 2010 at 9:09 am #

    If it is within the power of the president to confiscate gold,why is it not within his power to confiscate $114 billion in bonuses on wall street from the thieves that generated it because of extraordinary effort to screw the public?Why should they,besides getting their undeserved salary,be allowed to encourage this criminal activity by paying “attaboy”bonuses?

  183. joomlabliss December 14, 2010 at 9:50 am #

    I finished reading the lovely Witch of Hebron, I enjoyed it very much. The beginning is a bit heavy, with the author’s voice being overly loud reciting the preceding events happened in the Word Made by Hand, but after 20 pages or so, the Witch comes to live and flows nicely. The author’s voice is still overly strong in some characters for my liking but it does not spoil the novel. And the best thing – you can continue the story indefinitely.
    Interesting, the “magic” portion of the novel is very much a character on its own – Jim surely has a great sense of the trends.
    And I loved all the herbal long-forgotten recipes, will research some of them further.
    I wish I could buy A Christmas Orphan directly from Jim’s website via PayPal, it is very easy to setup, I am surprised he has not done so already. Dmitry Orlov has published all his blogs as a collection of essays in on ebook which he sells to his subscribers for $20 via PayPal. A slightly cheaper PDF version of the Orphan would probably sell like cupcakes too. Orlov has 1600 readers, how many does Jim have I wonder :-)
    Till next Monday everyone.

  184. progressorconserve December 14, 2010 at 10:06 am #

    Those are some very chilling figures on World human populations and carrying capacity, Bean.
    They look “intuitively” correct to me; would you mind posting their source.
    The bottom line is that for world populations to *even come close* to US levels of prosperity – world populations have already been exceeded by considerable margins.
    And your last figure, concerning continental African levels of prosperity for the Globe – should scare the pants (or burqua, or skirt) off of anyone –
    “if the whole world had the same prosperity level as northeast Africa, the maximum population would be 40 billion (US at 1.8 billion).”
    We know the quote, “Man is born but to die;”
    – But this is a fate worse than death, IMHO, for those 40 billion – and sadly, looking at other figures – for anything much above the 1 Billion that the planet might realistically support post peak.

  185. welles December 14, 2010 at 10:08 am #

    jeez the bellyachin’ is really tiresome. anyway, for those commenters that have some cajones to actually lift their little finger & grow *some* of their own food, down here in Brazil I can get you a nice little lot of land, you’ll grow yer own bananas, cane, mangoes, chickens/eggs, plus a cow or goat if you’d like, plus palm trees for palm hearts. you’ll have plenty to eat and the stuff grows itself mostly. solve your mostly imaginary food problems, plus you can easily sell the bulk of your production with no interference from Uncle Sam. freedom’s awesome, it´d be nice if it were legal in the US. come on down y’all, folks here is real nice and simple.
    here’s your payback, price to you from free food you grow on your property, no taxes:
    cane – $1.25 per stalk
    bananas – $1.40 a dozen
    eggs – $1.75 a dozen
    palm heart – $2 per pound
    assorted fruits – $0.35 to $1 a pound depending
    you’ll get 1-2 harvests per year plus lots of fellowship with nice folks
    expat welles

  186. ozone December 14, 2010 at 10:09 am #

    “I’m the 2nd mouse. I hope I’m right and the vat turns to butter. I don’t claim to be right – it’s the way I think, based on my experience.” -BTB
    Beans,
    No claims here either. Have you had much experience being in 3rd world countries? Since I have, this is my experiential perspective; so I see things shaking out as rigorously non-techno/non-gagetry. I’m not mouse #1 either (at least, not by choice, but perhaps by chance), but I see butter-churning as a pretty low-tech exercise, so, there ya go!
    I guess every opinion is an amalgam of our lifetime ramblings. (Mmmm, I’ll amend that to THOUGHTFUL people like yourself. ;o) Crackers fer Christ seem to be IGNORING their life experiences in favor of rapturous fantasy and something-for-nothing scammery. )

  187. tzatza December 14, 2010 at 10:10 am #

    “So you’re saying that the big bad evil socialist government forced the poor old mega-banks and corporations at gunpoint to take trillions of dollars in zero interest loans that they didn’t actually want or need.”
    Yes you simple fuck. That is exactly what I am saying. As usual you enter into the “conversation” without knowing what the fuck you are talking about. Below you will find one of countless stories (if you ever bothered to study a subject you would know how covered this issue was at the time) this one filed by the Associated Press:
    updated 5/14/2009 5:02:22 PM ET
    “NEW YORK — The chief executives of the nine largest U.S. banks had no choice but to accept capital infusions from the Treasury Department in October, government documents have confirmed.
    Obtained and released by Judicial Watch, a nonpartisan educational foundation, the documents revealed “talking points” used by former Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson during the Oct. 13 meeting between federal officials and the executives that stressed the investments would be required “in any circumstance,” whether the banks found them appealing or not.
    Paulson also told the bankers it would not be prudent to opt out of the program because doing so “would leave you vulnerable and exposed.”
    It’s no secret that some of the banks had to be pressured to participate in the program, with several bank CEOs saying they had been strongly encouraged to take the funds. But the documents are the first proof of the government’s insistence.
    “These documents show our government exercising unrestrained power over the private sector,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton in a statement.”
    I asked you before. Go away. Spend a little time and develop some of your theories (whatever the fuck they may be because frankly, other than taking a stupid point-of-view for the sake of taking a stupid point-of-view, I have no idea what your theories actually are) and do so based on some pertinent FACTS.

  188. tzatza December 14, 2010 at 10:17 am #

    “Capitalism says nothing about equitable or fair distribution of money…”
    And that is because that that very thought is LAUGHABLE. A moronic, exercise in mental masturbation of imbeciles.

  189. progressorconserve December 14, 2010 at 10:25 am #

    Still quoting from Bean’s figures:
    “If the entire world was to have the same standard of living as the US with regard to our health, nutrition and freedom, the maximum population is 2 billion (less than 1/3rd of the present world pop. of 6.8 bllion). That implies a maximum US population of under 100 million.”
    Now, some are calling present trends a conspiracy at the highest levels of TPTB – to engineer a US collapse deliberately.
    I disagree. I think our huge US population increase has the bumbling fingerprints of “The Decider” all over it.
    Look at the following figures – and look at the dates.
    We are looking at the work of a man and an administration simply applying these *wise* words:
    “Make the pie higher!”
    ==============
    “Legal immigration to the U.S. increased from 250,000 in the 1930s, to 2.5 million in the 1950s, to 4.5 million in the 1970s, and to 7.3 million in the 1980s, before resting at about 10 million in the 1990s.[52] Since 2000, legal immigrants to the United States number approximately 1,000,000 per year…. Legal immigrants to the United States now are at their highest level ever, at just over 37,000,000 legal immigrants. Illegal immigration may be as high as 1,500,000 per year with a net of at least 700,000 illegal immigrants arriving every year”
    ==============
    Looks like approaching doom to me – and I’m a pragmatic optimist, and open to suggestions.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States

  190. ozone December 14, 2010 at 10:44 am #

    “Those are some very chilling figures on World human populations and carrying capacity, Bean.” -PoC
    I agree. It also brings up a point that has chafed at me for quite some time: the concept/paradigm of “carrying capacity”.
    Would your partner prefer that you, a.) Lived with them, or, b.) Used them.
    Think about that. “Carrying capacity” implies USAGE. That’s not just word-play, that’s real application. Now that may be just dandy with the bible-bangers (dominion and all that horseshit), but the implicit lack of respect for ones’ life-support system is more than a little insane. That mind-set had better go away or extinction [of our species and a lot of others'] is assured.

  191. The Mook December 14, 2010 at 10:49 am #

    The end is near. It is the same as when Uncle Dick has hotels all along Marvin Gardens, Pacific, and Boardwalk. Everyone plays it out in a bored fashion, and then all the money gets redistributed and America starts fresh. Suddenly, everyone is excited again, and ready to participate. Oh shit, that’s socialism. Never mind, the rich get everything. God bless America.

  192. ozone December 14, 2010 at 10:51 am #

    “If it is within the power of the president to confiscate gold,why is it not within his power to confiscate $114 billion in bonuses on wall street from the thieves that generated it because of extraordinary effort to screw the public?” -Fun.
    Okay, now just who was it that supplied vast mountains of dough to Obama’s presidential campaign coffers? Hmmmm, somebody remind me, I can’t remember…
    And just who was ushered into the inner sanctums of Obama’s circle of advisors? Geez, guess I’m an American, ’cause I don’t remember… somebody hand me the Cheezy-snarfs; the game’s comin’ on the flatscreen…

  193. ozone December 14, 2010 at 10:51 am #

    …advisers…

  194. Cash December 14, 2010 at 11:16 am #

    Wow! All that stuff. We’re all impressed, I’m sure.
    Want some advice? For your own good keep your mouth shut about what you own. You are a minnow in a shark tank and, if it suits them, the sharks will take what you’ve got, rip your life out from under you, eat your bones and shit you out.
    Whether or not you realize it what happens to you in life has a really big component of blind luck. It isn’t a question of if something nasty happens to you but rather when.
    Like you I was cocky. Nothing bad would happen to me, nosirree. I was smarter/luckier than everyone else. I was special, sure I was. Hah.
    Look around if you can bother. Maybe you’ll notice that people are just one fuckup from the unemployment line, one long bout of unemployment from divorce and bankruptcy, and one bout of bad health from destitution and maybe homelessness.
    Think it can’t happen to you? Wake up pal.
    Read Antimatter’s post Dec 13 12:44. A really sad story. Many, many like him. Pray your own luck holds out.
    The posts that you think are hilarious are posts from people that, IMO, have some foresight, who watch and think about what goes on in the world or who’ve seen the shitty side of people and events. In my view, if you have even a small knowledge of history or experience in this world you wouldn’t be so dismissive. Ever heard of World War One, the Great Depression, World War Two, the Holocaust, the Korean War, Vietnam, Pol Pot? Really, seriously rotten stuff.
    And do not flaunt your wealth and good fortune. It’s bad form and, I’m telling you my friend, you are tempting fate.
    PS My wife and I made it to retirement financially intact. And after one bad cancer scare and major surgery for my wife we’re physically intact. But I never take anything for granted. It can all be snatched away in a blink of an eye.

  195. tzatza December 14, 2010 at 11:30 am #

    “Meanwhile, in the real world, this has been one of the best years ever for me. I bought the car of my dreams (a new M3 — 15 mpg, seats two and a bag of groceries)…”
    Hey numb-nuts,
    M3’s seat 4. Perhaps not comfortably, but they do possess back seats.

  196. myrtlemay December 14, 2010 at 11:38 am #

    Assange has just been granted bail (about $300k plus)and is staying in a mansion outside of London. Hope they outfit him in some bullet-proof jammies.

  197. myrtlemay December 14, 2010 at 11:40 am #

    How very nice for you, dear! I’m sure your mommy is soooo proud. Now be a good little buy and STFU! smartass!

  198. budizwiser December 14, 2010 at 11:40 am #

    I don’t know the bit about the “revolution” – there has to be some real pain first.
    I like some of the posts – staying on topic about energy economy. FWIW – the news of the day regarding PO is that deep water harvesting has never materialized as EIA projections of 2008/9 suggested.
    Essentially this means many of the more conservative prognosticators will soon be revising the “far off” tragedies of 2020-2025 – to a fast approaching 2015-2018.
    However, we really never ,know what natural market conditions are because that is all orchestrated artificially for Wall Street gains.
    The big elephant in the way of righteous market forecasting is understanding the nature of discretionary consumption.
    So far there has yet to be a modern Jimmy Carter of any portent. And even among the CF Nation, no one broaches the subject of “value systems” – and how and when we determine Grandma’s heating fuel is more important than Jack Ass’s SUV tripping.
    When we get there, and more than a few people Clusterfuck to consensus – there come’s the revolution.

  199. myrtlemay December 14, 2010 at 11:42 am #

    “Now be a good little buy and …” Freudian slip…”be a good little a-hole.”

  200. myrtlemay December 14, 2010 at 11:49 am #

    Agree with Cash on this one. “James”, with his $850K house and little trinkets, doesn’t realize he’s just a gnat on a bull’s balls to the big boys. Yes, “James”, Karma is a super bitch, incredibly mean who gives with one hand, but takes with two. Don’t fuck with her….TOO LATE! YA JUST DID!

  201. JonathanSS December 14, 2010 at 11:52 am #

    I bought the car of my dreams (a new M3 — 15 mpg, seats two and a bag of groceries):
    We’ll probably see this guy sitting in a gas line, circa 1979, sometime in the next decade or so. Or, he can pay someone to gas it for him.
    James, get real. I have a bunch of wealth, an M Coupe, three homes, etc. But none of this stuff means squat in the “real world”.

  202. Cash December 14, 2010 at 12:08 pm #

    Yeah I remember the Unocal thing. The Chinese are sniffing around up here in the Alberta oil sands and Saskatchewan potash.
    The way that I see it is this: you can come up with what sounds like wildly creative and improbable scenarios for the future and, when it comes, actual events always end up more wildly creative and improbable than your scenarios.
    Imagine that you’re a German living in the 1880s or 1890s. Imagine someone predicting to you that by 1950 Germany will have fought two massive wars where flying machines would destroy entire cities where single bombs would incinerate and vapourize square miles, where European Jewry would be exterminated, where there would be radios and television, where the Hapsburg, Ottoman, British Empires all would be put in their graves. National Socialism? A corporal as dictator? Worldwide Communism? You wouldn’t believe it was possible.
    Imagine from the perspective of 1950 if someone were to tell you about the hippies of 1970, the civil rights, women’s rights and sexual revolutions, the antiwar movement, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, the space race, the moon landing.
    Imagine from the perspective of 1970 if someone predicted the end of communism as a global ideology by 1990, the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the admission of Eastern bloc countries in NATO.
    All of this stuff would have sounded wild. No matter how crazy the ramblings on this website are they are not crazy enough.
    So will the west coast be Chinese a protectorate? Will English become an offical language of China? Will Mandarin become an official language of the US? Not remotely creative enough in my opinion.

  203. Cash December 14, 2010 at 12:29 pm #

    Hi MM,
    I think James is a young feller. Hasn’t yet seen or maybe doesn’t yet know that, as you say, Karma is a super bitch. When life shits on you it really shits on you.
    When you’re young or in good health you really don’t “get” this business about your health being everything. When they found that nasty little thingy in my wife’s colon I barely slept during the two months it took to get the surgery done (they took out a foot of her colon and a piece of small intestine) and then get the all clear from the pathology lab.
    And then on top of it she had a post surgical infection that took more hospital visits, 6 weeks of sickness and daily visits by a nurse to clean the wound and re-pack it. Jesus H Christ it was miserable. Even if in the end it turned out OK.
    Or maybe James is an older guy and happens to be one dumb fuck who just stayed lucky. I don’t begrudge his luck but laughing at other people is bad, bad, bad.

  204. messianicdruid December 14, 2010 at 12:45 pm #

    “Maybe RP will choke on a pretzel.”
    God forbid.

  205. lbendet December 14, 2010 at 12:57 pm #

    messianicdruid,
    I wasn’t saying I hope so, I was implying he might be done away with–in jest of course!
    Oh, and I should have said a Cheese-tos

  206. Alexandra December 14, 2010 at 12:59 pm #

    Abfab post again this week (as riots roll out over Europe) Mr. Kunstler…
    And with such a Deustch hinting of past-times-a-surname, and you being so savvy enough to know that we’re moving fast forward toward, a soooo totally back to the future set of lifestyle choices, thought you might like to be reminded of this…
    A great Weimar art piece by George Grosz titled ‘The Pillars of Society’
    http://www.ulike.net/The_Pillars_of_Society
    And what do we see when we study this painting in close detail?
    In the front the Nazi (dare I say gung-ho republican type) followed by two bourgeoisies one a bankster for sure (whom finances/supports the regime)….topped off by the corrupt priest, with in the background the death dealing murderous military…
    (This was painted back in 1926, interesting coincidence… eh?)
    And the best part is just how much steaming sh#t-n-excrement is present in this painting, so twould seem Herr Grosz was not oblivious to his nations predicament…
    Much like you I guess?
    And we all know what happened a few decades later, don’t we… *sniggers*
    Meanwhile what do we get as a Turner Prize winner this year, some folky sound sculptures…. nice!
    (Dumb and dumber will be the epitaph of our time)
    Keep up the great work Jim….
    Be seeing you…

  207. myrtlemay December 14, 2010 at 1:05 pm #

    Brings to mind the old saying, “That which does not kill you makes you stronger.” I’m glad you and your wife made it through that horrible ordeal. I’ve fought medical battles, financial battles, you name it…none on Afghanistan. Which brings to mind the recent departure of Mr. Holbrooke, the Chief envoy to Afghanistan. His last words were, “You’ve got to stop this war in Afghanistan.” Just wondering if the amerikan press will report on that. These days I’m getting 90% of my news from Pravda, the Guardian, anthing but MSM (less than 10%).
    I know I’m all over the place today in my comments. Trying VERY hard not to take a pain pill following routine oral surgery (not routine for me, but…)

  208. messianicdruid December 14, 2010 at 1:10 pm #

    “I wasn’t saying I hope so, I was implying he might be done away with–in jest of course!”
    I do not wish to put my hope in men, but I pray for his safety. I wasn’t being critical of you, it’s just that I see { too } few standing in the gap.

  209. Cash December 14, 2010 at 1:19 pm #

    Yeccch I hate the dentist. Take it easy and heal.

  210. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2010 at 1:30 pm #

    Bay Arryan? I’m not in San Francisco – never lived there.
    Conservative? Where I have ever said that? I’m a Fascist – which includes elements of what is known as Conservatism and what is known as Liberalism. Since I’m an American Fascist, I would lean more towards our model of self reliance as opposed to the European model. That being said, I don’t believe in the Tea Party very much. If you change one big thing – like the Welfare State – you have to change everyhthing to compensate for its loss. Are these people ready to take care of their sick relatives? Are they ready to tithe as Christians are supposed to do? Tithing means giving to charity one tenth of your income. Traditionally, this would be given to your Church so they could take care of the local indigents wo didn’t have family to take them in. This whole Tradition has been conveniently forgotten by not only the Statists, but the would be reformers. The only people I’ve seen talking about it are the Radical (back to basics) Calvinists. You can go to the Reformation Bookstore to find out more. Don’t care for their Theology, but they got the social stuff down. Same with the Mormons – silly Theology, but real American practical genius at the nuts and bolts of living. Glenn Beck is teaching this and that makes him superior to the vast majority of the Tea Party crowd. He also is deeply learned in many aspects of the Conspiracy. Of course, he is on Fox News and can’t mention the Jewish side of it at all.

  211. progressorconserve December 14, 2010 at 1:49 pm #

    “Bay Arryan? I’m not in San Francisco – never lived there.”
    Vlad, if you’ll go back and take a look you’ll see that the “Bay Arryan” was the arrogant jackass with the M3 who posted immediately prior to my post to you. That was not intended as a reference to you, Vlad – it is kinda funny, though if you think about it – and if you have a sense of humor. ;-)
    To me it’s pretty funny – that you would think I just *made up* a name for you out of thin air AND moved you to San Francisco, to boot! ROFLMAO – right now – which makes it hard to type, BTW.

  212. progressorconserve December 14, 2010 at 2:01 pm #

    Truth is always in the middle, Vlad.
    And there is a lot of honest to God truth in what you just posted. (That’s not to say I’m ever going to be in 100% agreement.)
    You are making sense – more and more – to me – others have commented on this phenomenon, too.
    This means:
    1. You’ve worn us down – unlikely
    2. Times are so hard I’ve turned fascist myself
    3. You’ve taken some of the hard edges off your thoughts – leaving some very useful truth – now more exposed and visible.
    I’ve done the same thing with my thoughts, on CFN and elsewhere – lately.
    Which is why I keeping posting and thrashing around mentally with you – and many others on here.
    If you stop growing (thinking) you start dying!
    Don’t want that to happen, now do we? ;)

  213. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2010 at 2:04 pm #

    Creativity? The Chinese taking over part of the US? That’s conceivable but we can’t even talk about expelling illegals. Cash, you amaze me as always. You would rather the West die than give up your liberal religion of nice-guy-ism. As I learned a long time ago – nice people are often quite ruthless and not very nice at all. People don’t see it because like Obama you hide it underneath a mask of gentility. Your greatest weapon is the fait accompli – what’s done is done. Learn to live with it – it can’t be undone, etc. Counsels of death.
    The Path of Truth, the Path of the Sun is radically opposed to all such Lunar capitulations and deceptions. We will be absorbed? No, like swallowing a live ferret we will gnaw our way of this alien social body. The True West is NOT the multicultural mess that you love so much. Trying to teach Haitians Calculus – Nonsense. Bringing Somali kids to the Symphony – Grotesque. South Asians in the Chamber of Commerce – they wont discriminate in favor of their own now will they? At least you know the Chinese are dangerous – if you only understood the Genetic Basis of Culture and the genetic war that is being waged on the West – but alas, you are blind.

  214. progressorconserve December 14, 2010 at 2:21 pm #

    OK – maybe some of those hard edges are still there

  215. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2010 at 2:23 pm #

    Ok based on that – make the existential choice. How low do want the United States to go to accomodate the rest of the world. Do you want us to take in a billion people so we can be equal with Africa? You don’t seem to have thought it through yet. Instead you give us things like my dad was an immigrant so immigration is good. I hope you realize that doesn’t cut it. My Dad was too. I’m glad he got in and I’m here. So what? Is it unfair we are here and most of the world is not? What a fatal logic. Life is unfair. We drew some good cards. Be grateful and protect what we have for posterity. Instead people want to give the country back to the Indians or give it away to South Asians, Muslims, and Mexicans. Hint: these groups will fight tooth and nail for it once we are out of the picture.
    As for the Indians: we conquered them as was necessary to have a Nation here. One cannot in good faith (existentialism again) reside here and enjoy the good life and simultaneously bemoan our conquest. It stinks of hypocrisy. We didn’t exterminate them and we have given the Indians some privledges such as increased hunting and fishing rights for those who want a traditional lifestyle and casino rights for those who don’t. It’s not perfect but it’s better than we did last century. Now of course they want everything just lie the rest of the minorities. The answer is and must be NO. And no more apologies.

  216. Vlad Krandz December 14, 2010 at 2:46 pm #

    Go to a Black Church. Surprise them. Bring your hidden microphone. Post the results here. I find it hilarious several groups of Blacks make a practice of descending on White Churches to shock and show up the racists meanwhile bloody S.A style politics are being preached back at the base.

  217. Newfie December 14, 2010 at 2:48 pm #

    Mmmm… I guess I find it disappointing in some vague way that I am not a citizen of an advanced society that thinks far into the future, at least a million years, and even that is a mere blink of an eye in geological time. I’m a crusty pessimist who firmly believes that Industrial Civilization is the biggest pyramid scheme ever conceived. But some great minds already beat me to that insight. There was of course MK Hubbert. And also Fred Hoyle who said that any intelligent species on a planet only gets one chance to create a sustainable advanced civilization. And Enrico Fermi mused that the reason aliens haven’t contacted us is because there aren’t any advanced civilizations out there because they all blew it. As you say most people can’t think twenty years ahead. To me this is the same thing as saying Homo Sapiens are in the process of becoming a failed species. Plundering valuable minerals to create “shareholder value” is the path to civilizational failure. You can rationalize it any way you want. I simply conclude that humans are very dim witted creatures collectively speaking. I live in the 51st state. We are going to freeze in the dark up here after peak oil.

  218. myrtlemay December 14, 2010 at 2:51 pm #

    Today’s number one golden oldie hit in CF Land is dedicated to John Boehner, 1962’s “Big Girls Don’t Cry”.

  219. Newfie December 14, 2010 at 3:03 pm #

    “We have, or soon will have, exhausted the necessary physical prerequisites so far as this planet is concerned. With coal gone, oil gone, high-grade metallic ores gone, no species however competent can make the long climb from primitive conditions to high-level technology. This is a one-shot affair. If we fail, this planetary system fails so far as intelligence is concerned. The same will be true of other planetary systems. On each of them there will be one chance, and one chance only.”
    Fred Hoyle, cosmologist, 1964.
    “The moon landing may be our Great Pyramid, an accomplishment never to be equaled.”
    Alan Cromer, professor of physics, 1993

  220. Qbala December 14, 2010 at 3:14 pm #

    “Tithing means giving to charity one tenth of your income.”
    No it does not. It means bringing 1/10 of your edible produce (nowhere is it monetary income) to a storehouse to be distributed to the poor among us.

  221. Qshtik December 14, 2010 at 4:32 pm #

    TOTALLY OFF TOPIC – but I can’t help myself
    Here’s the deal. I’m sitting here watching CNBC.
    Please enunciate clearly and out loud the word: BANK
    Now, given what you just heard yourself say, how do you imagine NANK would be pronounced if it was a word? Unlikely it would be pronounced NACK, no?
    Now, note that our Fed Chairman’s last name is BERE.
    And so I ask, why – for JEEZUS H FUCKING CHRIST’S SAKE – does 1 out of 10 or 20 highly educated professional financial talking heads pronounce the Fed Chief’s name as BERNACKE?
    I must have a reasonable answer to this question or I’ll lose my freaking mind!!

  222. Qshtik December 14, 2010 at 4:37 pm #

    Part of sentence above got clipped off somehow. It should be:
    Now, note that our Fed Chairman’s last name is BERNANKE.

  223. Susan B December 14, 2010 at 4:55 pm #

    Jim,
    Interesting, humorous and inventively-written post, as usual. It’s difficult to say what lies ahead for the United States in the months and years to come, and most likely, it will look nothing like the scenario you’ve described (history has a way of surprising us), but I enjoy the fact that you are one of the only American voices I trust to broach the subject with honest, razor-sharp intellect and insight.
    The tax bill fiasco was a disappointment for me. I would love to see a traditional tax-structure in place for our country (pre-Bush era), a drastic reduction in military and road-building efforts, tax-incentives to bring some industry back to the states, and large investments in dense building, public transit, train travel and small-scale farming. I really do believe we still have the capability to return to an honest, human-scale lifestyle without too much trouble, but we have to act now.
    One can hope, anyway.

  224. BeantownBill December 14, 2010 at 5:54 pm #

    Here’s the link, Procon:
    http://www.ecofuture.org/pop/rpts/mccluney_maxpop.html

  225. BeantownBill December 14, 2010 at 6:06 pm #

    Yes, but wasn’t Paulson the former CEO of Goldman-Sachs, or some such position before becoming Treasury Secretary? So who the fuck really makes up the government and who really are the bankers? When two bodies are entwined together under the covers in a bed, can you tell who’s who?

  226. Cash December 14, 2010 at 6:08 pm #

    Vlad, old man, don’t you know me better than that by now?
    I’ve ranted a hundred times about how multiculturalism is something that cannot work and should not be contemplated. Up here we can’t even run a bilingual, bicultural country. A multicultural country is a fool’s errand that will end in mess and disaster.
    I’m not blind. I say what I say because of what I’ve seen. As for race being the basis of culture that just doesn’t square with what I’ve seen.
    Like I said before, a buddy of mine is Somali. I’ve broken bread with him many times. A good fella, devout Muslim, university educated in the US, highly skilled and a good family man.
    Our last Governor General was a black woman from Haiti, immigrated here a long time ago, hugely popular, very effective, gave a great barn burner of an inaugural speech, visited our boys in Afghanistan and met their coffins at a Canuck airforce base with their families. She was fine by me.
    My point about the US being partially swallowed is just that we can’t imagine the future. No matter how wild our imaginings reality will be wilder.

  227. Cash December 14, 2010 at 7:32 pm #

    A reasonable answer to why perhaps is sloth and indifference.
    But given that Bernanke is about as easy to say right as it is to say wrong maybe sloth and indifference is unreasonable and inadequate. Beats me.
    Talking about sloth and indifference.: you know what always really frosted my cake? When I would ask someone at work why are we doing something the way we’re doing it and I’d suggest something different and I’d get the answer “well, we’ve always done it this way”. So some ding dong started doing something ass backward five years ago and everyone just keeps doing it?
    Or when some clerk would tell me “I just want a job I can forget about at 5 o’clock”. OK well, you’re right, we don’t pay much. But then we don’t ask much either, just that you have your brain fully in gear when you’re here. And they pay 90% less in Mumbai and get 50% more work. So I leave it to you.
    Or when getting work out of some dept was like pulling teeth because of all the people on various leaves. They avail themselves of every leave known to man: mat leave, compassionate leave, parental leave, sick leave, stress leave, this leave, that leave, the other leave and when the few remaining have to bust their asses because so many people are on various leaves then the bosses start thinking fuck it move it all to India. Which I saw happen. OK I’m done.

  228. James December 14, 2010 at 7:50 pm #

    You people are hilarious! The hate! The venom! The vitriol! Look, I’m going to be serious now for just a moment before I get back to taunting you low-lifes.
    Everyone, I mean every human walking the earth, has some weakness lurking deep down in their genes, waiting to fell them when their time comes. I already know what I have waiting for me and, God willing, how long I’ve got until it hits.
    But right now, I’m a young guy, with a ton of degrees and a lot of money to spend living life to the max. And there’s no way in hell I’m going to spend it sitting in a dark cabin burning firewood and growing beans! Suckas!
    –The Bay Aryaan

  229. ozone December 14, 2010 at 8:31 pm #

    I know you’re just having us on with this wankery (tm MM), but I’ll play…
    “I already know what I have waiting for me and, God willing, how long I’ve got until it hits.”
    Ohh, ohh, let me guess! It wouldn’t be incurable terminal syphilis by any chance would it? A fine way to go. Have fun!

  230. Elna December 14, 2010 at 9:16 pm #

    Hey Solar Guy, good information on the solar radiation heat. Are you using this now? Would it work in North Texas? Could a top notch do-it-your-selfer install the pex tubing and solar thermal collector? I need more details.
    E

  231. Qshtik December 14, 2010 at 9:30 pm #

    They avail themselves of every leave known to man: mat leave, compassionate leave, parental leave, sick leave, stress leave, this leave, that leave, the other leave
    =========
    And then along came Kwanzaa which Asoka has (probably) taken off for every year since it was invented by a Jersy City cabbie ;o) or whomever.
    and I’d get the answer “well, we’ve always done it this way”.
    ========
    Apropos, there’s an old tale I heard in the military (no idea if it has any basis in fact) about the “Fly Paper Report.” Seems some young soldier in a Jr Clerk position gets the idea to count the flies stuck to the fly paper dangling from the cealing. He dreams up an official looking report of the count and begins to send this report once each month to his higher-ups at Headquarters. Then after six months he quits sending it. Shortly thereafter a lieutenant at HQ is on the horn demanding to know “WHERE THE HELL IS YOUR FLYPAPER REPORT??”

  232. turkle December 14, 2010 at 9:47 pm #

    “with a ton of degrees and a lot of money to spend living life to the max”
    And you’re obviously pretty sad and insecure to come and brag about it on the comments section of someone else’s blog.
    In fact, I’m kinda seriously doubting the truth of anything you write. Sounds like bullshit to me.

  233. turkle December 14, 2010 at 9:49 pm #

    “The hate! The venom! The vitriol! Look, I’m going to be serious now for just a moment before I get back to taunting you low-lifes.”
    So what you’re saying is that everyone else is hateful.
    And then you say you’re going to continue to troll the “low-lifes” here.
    Hmm, somewhat ironic, I’d say.

  234. turkle December 14, 2010 at 10:01 pm #

    zsa,
    Thanks for the Judicial Watch story. That’s quite interesting.
    Thought one short set of documents does not prove that this is the end of the story.
    For one, you it doesn’t mention the trillions of dollars in additional loans given to banks and corporations. The bailout was just the beginning.
    Even if were the case that this was a 100% coercive situation (which seems highly unlikely), it changes almost nothing, because the Federal Reserve is a private entity run by all the major banks. Most of the people at the Fed and the Treasury Dept. come straight out of the private financial industry.
    So in essence, the CEO of the Fed funneled money to the divisions of the corporation. Whether or not the divisions wanted this money or had to be forced or convinced to take it is a bit irrelevant. It happened, and the banks benefited. There is not all that much separation between the public and private banking realms.
    Should there be? Should the Fed get audited? Should these kinds of gifts/loans/deals-you-can’t-refuse not happen? Should large banks be split into smaller, more manageable pieces or be allowed to fail? etc.
    I don’t know. Maybe. It is far more complicated than just calling something wrong or evil.
    I’m with you that this whole situation is a bit fucked-up and contrary to how one would think the private banking system should function in a take-the-red-pill kind of way.
    But, hey, I’m not calling the shots. I’m more interested in finding out how things work. I’ll let other people be the judge of whether these things are right or wrong.
    To me, it seems that our system requires these kinds of interventions by the Fed to keep from imploding. Am I off there? Would everything be just fine here if the Fed did a “hands off” and let the banks and corporations stand on their own merits/books/finances?
    I seriously fucking doubt it.

  235. turkle December 14, 2010 at 10:06 pm #

    Oh and I believe it is extremely naive to think that Ben Bernanke is some kind of socialist ogre raging against the private sector. The leadership at the Fed comes right out of the big banks into government and they function more as moles for corporate interests than as government employees.
    In large part, there IS virtually no separation between private sector and government at the highest levels of banking. The trillions of dollars in bank stimulus certainly suggest this.

  236. Zenith December 14, 2010 at 10:15 pm #

    During independent Vermont Senator Sanders’ long address on Friday he read many letters from constituents that were much like the Price Chopper conversation. I couldn’t help noticing the underlying Peak Oil theme. These Vermonters we’re appealing to their senator for help with fuel oil and gas prices that are becoming unmanageable in their harsh economic and natural environment.
    The “Bad Deal” speech transcript can be found here:
    http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=e35eddb4-0d83-4c55-92c0-e448c55526ff

  237. trippticket December 14, 2010 at 10:27 pm #

    “The leadership at the Fed comes right out of the big banks into government and they function more as moles for corporate interests than as government employees.”
    The fed is a collection of private corporate banks, that only have a government-y sounding name. So your analysis seems pretty reasonable to me!

  238. HellbillyBob December 14, 2010 at 10:40 pm #

    Lurking for a bit… Vlad, you ignorant slut! You really think the color of skin matters? I love black people, or African-Americans, or whatever! Same to you, JHK! IF there is any element of this society that will ignite the revolution, they are the ONES, and rightfully so! Fuck you, Vlad! What do you do besides sit around and masturbate to the monologues of the right wing “intelligentsia”… lol. It might all end tomorrow, but I will NOT die at the foot of the cross of the British royalty. What a fucking moron! Pathetic! Embarrassing! Infantile! Stoopid! You must be one of the tattooed, pierced idiots! Moving forward, I like JHK, but he is ONE dude. Might be right. Might be wrong. Whoopteedoo :)

  239. HellbillyBob December 14, 2010 at 10:49 pm #

    Hey Vlad… wouldn’t mind me some more of that black booty either… what’s the matter, honey?… can’t get any? Are you too “little”… rofl!

  240. Qshtik December 14, 2010 at 11:34 pm #

    Turk, you are shameless and annoying. You made a statement and TZA ably refuted it. Now you are dragging red herrings every which way across the subject trying to bullshit your way to at least a draw. This is your routine M.O.

  241. Ang December 15, 2010 at 12:33 am #

    And so I ask, why – for JEEZUS H FUCKING CHRIST’S SAKE – does 1 out of 10 or 20 highly educated professional financial talking heads pronounce the Fed Chief’s name as BERNACKE?
    I must have a reasonable answer to this question or I’ll lose my freaking mind!!
    ————-
    Same reason that I’m thrilled to death that after 20 fucking years we finally have a President who can pronounce NUCLEAR!!!
    Say it with me kids…
    NOO – CLEE – ER
    not…
    NOOK – U – LAR
    Don’t they have access to a damn speech therapist in the White House?

  242. Buck Stud December 15, 2010 at 1:23 am #

    I just love all this waxing over the “good people of color”. It reminds me of back in the day when condescending white assholes would utter the ‘ he’s a credit to his race’ refrain.
    As far as Vlad’s fantasy of a racially delineated former United States, I can only say that any dividing going on will be done strictly along economic lines. So never mind the ‘Great White North’, Vlad; you’ll be lucky to get a job shoveling poop in Michael Vick’s dog pen.

  243. Buck Stud December 15, 2010 at 1:25 am #

    I just love all this waxing over the ‘good people of color’. It reminds me of back in the day when condescending white assholes would utter the ‘ he’s a credit to his race’ refrain.
    As far as Vlad’s fantasy of a racially delineated former United States, I can only say that any dividing going on will be done strictly along economic lines. So never mind the ‘Great White North’, Vlad; you’ll be lucky to get a job shoveling poop in Michael Vick’s dog pen.

  244. turkle December 15, 2010 at 2:53 am #

    What I really think is that the “they made me do it” defense is a cover-up.

  245. turkle December 15, 2010 at 2:55 am #

    The banks are a cartel, and the Fed is at the head of that cartel.
    A couple pieces of paper that say “the big bad Fed made us take all this money” does not change this.

  246. turkle December 15, 2010 at 2:59 am #

    Yeah, the bailouts were completely forced down the throats of every other large bank and corporation in America, as well as a number of foreign banks and corporations.
    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/trillions-in-secret-fed-bailouts-for-global-corporations-and-foreign-banks-has-the-federal-reserve-become-a-completely-unaccountable-global-bailout-machine
    But, but, they MADE the banks and multinational corporations take trillions of free dollars.
    If you believe that, you’re a SUCKER.

  247. turkle December 15, 2010 at 3:19 am #

    “Turk, you are shameless and annoying. You made a statement and TZA ably refuted it. Now you are dragging red herrings every which way across the subject trying to bullshit your way to at least a draw. This is your routine M.O.”
    Okay, I’ll admit it.
    Ben Bernanke actually prays to an effigy of Stalin every night. He’s trying to seize the means of production and get the revolution started. It’s like an Ayn Rand novel, only real.
    All these innocent, well-capitalized, solvent banks and corporations were forced to take $3 trillion in 0.25% loans they didn’t want or need (no, no, please no more free money, Mr. Bernanke!).
    Ben forced them to eat that motherfucking porridge, or they’d go to bed without any desert. Or he’d spank them. Or something.
    And you’re an intelligent reasonable person who is right about everything…you and your little pissant friend tzatza dabore.
    Happy now?

  248. turkle December 15, 2010 at 3:25 am #

    http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/01/news/economy/fed_reserve_data_release/index.htm
    “The Wall Street firm that received the most assistance was Merrill Lynch, which received $2.1 trillion, spread across 226 loans.”
    “Citigroup (C, Fortune 500), which ended up with a majority of its shares owned by the Treasury Department due to a separate federal bailout, was No. 2 on the list with 279 loans totaling $2 trillion. Morgan Stanley (MS, Fortune 500) was third with $1.9 trillion coming from 212 loans.”
    “As we have previously disclosed, Morgan Stanley utilized some of the Federal Reserve’s emergency lending facilities during a time of immense financial turmoil throughout the banking sector and the broader market,” Morgan Stanley said in a statement Wednesday. “The Fed’s actions were timely and critical, and we commend them for providing liquidity and stabilizing the financial system during that period.”

    So you’re saying the Fed forced Morgan Stanley to take out 212 separate loans?
    Pardon me while I go LMAO.

  249. turkle December 15, 2010 at 3:32 am #

    This is good reading on the bailout.
    http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/reform_transaction.htm
    So long and thanks for all the fish.

  250. Eleuthero December 15, 2010 at 4:15 am #

    Cash said:
    “And do not flaunt your wealth and good fortune. It’s bad form and, I’m telling you my friend, you are tempting fate.”
    ***************************************************
    And you’re right that we’re all just one
    fuckup away from disaster. I knew a guy
    years ago who was a trust fund baby just
    waiting for his Mom to die to get his
    inheritance. She died. He got his
    inheritance. And promptly died six months
    later of throat cancer … likely from
    heavy smoking. He was 55.
    I, too, find these provocateurs who rub their
    GOOD fortune in people’s faces. It’s hard
    enough to stand a sore loser but sore WINNERS
    arouse animal spirits. They have the same
    type of God complex as Mr. Robinson in “The
    Graduate” (who whispered into Dustin Hoffman’s
    ear … “Young man, I have only one word for
    you … plastics!!”).
    Smugness not only has an appearance that makes
    you want to punch it in the nose, it is also
    a deluded mental state. We’ve all seen how
    a run of good luck makes people feel “invincible”.
    They anoint themselves lesser gods. It’s as old
    as the human race itself.
    Moreover, such people tend to be the most
    hysterical and anti-social when a severe
    upheaval undoes their largesse in the
    twinkling of an eye. And, in a sense,
    it’s the LUCKY ones who get knocked on
    their asses when “the best laid plans of
    mice and men” go astray for them.
    God complexes not only look bad on their
    possessors, they also lay the preconditions
    for future misfortune. In my opinion, that’s
    why the Kondratieff cycle is roughly two
    generations: One generation strives and makes
    all the money and the spoilt, conceited
    generation that follows pisses it away.
    E.

  251. HellbillyBob December 15, 2010 at 8:03 am #

    You talking to me? :) Well I like most folks… Asians, blacks, Latinos, even whitey. Of course, hell is people, too. But, let there be NO DOUBT that white men, and I am one, have caused me as much grief as white ladies! Perhaps the comment was a bit patronizing, but the point was Vlad is a moron. He thinks he’s bright, and he evidently studies quite a bit, but in the end is just as revolting as the rest of us.

  252. progressorconserve December 15, 2010 at 10:26 am #

    Another Titanic Metaphor
    We’re sinking as a country.
    We may take the rest of the planet down with us.
    We know where the leak is.
    We argue about whether humans REALLY? cause global warming – (that’s one deck chair to arrange)
    We argue about intractable unemployment and declining wages in the US – (another deck chair)
    Meanwhile – we walk down below decks – and we see one BIG leak that would be easy to fix.
    But the repair crews are fighting and not working.
    The conservative big business repair crew wants competition for ever lower wages.
    The liberal wackadoo repair crew wants to “do the right thing” or “increase liberal voting rolls”
    Meanwhile – the Decider is gone off the Bridge – thank God (god?)
    But this “sucker” could still go down.
    Because the leak continues at 1,200,000 MINIMUM per year.
    Any of you care to take a shot at interpreting some of this symbolism?

  253. networker December 15, 2010 at 10:27 am #

    Vlad just gets all his opinions from books. He is apparently a prolific reader, and endlessly quotes from all sorts of political screed, and yet clearly has never personally experienced any sort of hardship or hard work himself. It is easy to espouse judgmental ideas when you have never had to live them. :)

  254. networker December 15, 2010 at 10:30 am #

    Oh, and James is obviously making up his story just to get you all upset. (I mean, someone lied about something on the Internet? Really? Noooo, that never happens…)

  255. progressorconserve December 15, 2010 at 10:33 am #

    Q – you’re going to have to be more specific.
    “Turk, you are shameless and annoying. You made a statement and TZA ably refuted it.”
    Turkle has said a LOT of stuff over the past 2 weeks. His accuracy rate is 90% or better.
    Would you care to point out the statement.
    Only TZA is trying to stand by the ludicrous statement (paraphrased) “ON THIS WEBSITE I AM ALWAYS CORRECT…”

  256. progressorconserve December 15, 2010 at 10:42 am #

    GREAT post, E!
    “that’s why the Kondratieff cycle is roughly two
    generations:”
    Rags – to riches – to rags – In three generations.
    I’ve been thinking about this a lot myself. It is actually something that I have warned my sons about as they have grown into men.
    And I am beginning to wonder if we are not seeing this play out at the National Level.
    Or even at the level of Human Civilization on Earth?

  257. progressorconserve December 15, 2010 at 11:01 am #

    Vlad – what drives your spirit at its deepest level?
    Because it comes across to me as fear, oftentimes.
    Take this, for example:
    ==========
    “Go to a Black Church. Surprise them. Bring your hidden microphone.”
    ==========
    Are there black extremists? sure!
    Are there white extremists? sure!
    People attack you on here because of your extremes
    And then they refuse to consider ANY of your ideas
    And that is truly unfortunate.

  258. Qshtik December 15, 2010 at 11:40 am #

    Ang, the whole NOO-CLEE-ER vs NOOK-U-LAR thing has been beaten to death over the years … and as you are probably aware it wasn’t just Bush II but even Jimmy Carter (who served in the US Navy as an officer in the Submarine Service as a nuclear engineer) who mispronounced this word. It boggles the mind!
    I once heard a linguist explain why this error is so common but I wouldn’t be able to paraphrase what he said. It made perfect sense when I heard it though.
    But I wonder, when the Ber-NAK-e crowd hears the the rest of the world (90-95%) saying Ber-NANK-e, don’t they ever ask themselves, Hey, hold on a minute, what’s with this Ber-NANK-e shit?? Don’t they ever notice the second letter n in that second syllable when they read Bernanke?
    Is it possible I am the only person on this earth who is concerned with such things? Do I need “professional help” or is it everyone else who needs it?

  259. budizwiser December 15, 2010 at 11:52 am #

    And NOW – time for something completely different!
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/liamhalligan/8196283/Market-alarm-as-US-fails-to-control-biggest-debt-in-history.html
    Paush, paush, and huummph…..
    Not exactly evening news material, eh yet?

  260. Qshtik December 15, 2010 at 11:59 am #

    I am afraid a certain person at this blog has failed to grasp the fact that I do not, and will not, speak directly to him/her, despite my having made this perfectly clear months ago, and accordingly his/her questions to me fall on deaf ears. “A word to the wise … etc.”

  261. trippticket December 15, 2010 at 12:16 pm #

    Nuclear, nookular, whatever, just try not to be around when they’re in the air. (Hopefully we ALL have better sense than that these days, but I’m not holding my breath.)
    But I’m seeing my breath! Dang it’s cold! Sure am glad I don’t live at the 47th parallel anymore!
    Couldn’t pass up mentioning this: we just drove up to Macon from Tifton, where we’re in the process of moving fairly abruptly, and there were big trucks and men BUILDING NEW BILLBOARDS!! along the effing highways! From the spot of the first one I could see at least 5 unrented up ahead, and the ones with a reasonably intact advert on them looked like they hadn’t had to pay rent in a while. Maybe years.
    When I add that in with the 75 new houses they’re building across the street from my house in Macon, while 1000s of houses in town are empty and unsold, some not even trying to sell, I come up with 2 reactions:
    1)Talk about the psychology of previous investment! Both of these activities strike me as complete and utter insanity! WTF??, and
    2)I kinda think it’s hilarious to watch the wealthier among us throw their money back down the chain of command on our way back to post-fiat parity. From the earth we were born, and into the earth we shall rot, just like the greenback.
    But how will we use this knowledge to our advantage?
    Take care my friends,
    Tripp out.

  262. cunning runt December 15, 2010 at 12:18 pm #

    You are decidedly in need of professional help.

  263. San Jose Mom 51 December 15, 2010 at 12:25 pm #

    My next door neighbor got laid off from Yahoo yesterday. He’d been with the company for 12 years. Yahoo also laid off employee #3.
    Yet Carol Bartz, Yahoo’s CEO, makes $39 million a year. She was #1 on a list of executives who get paid too much to run underperforming companies.
    Couldn’t Yahoo have delayed the layoffs until after Christmas?
    Jen

  264. cunning runt December 15, 2010 at 12:36 pm #

    Why is it more politically correct to say “people of color” than “colored people”?
    Where are you Qshtick?

  265. networker December 15, 2010 at 1:12 pm #

    I must concur. You could seriously use some psychiatric help. However, since I am in perfect agreement with you on this topic, then I suppose I need some psychiatric help as well.
    Irregardless. Supposably. Could of. Would of. Should of. And, as the Grammar Girl calls it, the “Apostrophe Catastrophe.”
    However its all copacetic and a mute point. I try not to loose it when there mistakes don’t effect me very much.
    :)

  266. cunning runt December 15, 2010 at 1:16 pm #

    I’ll fill in for Qshtik here.
    Irregardless is not a word.
    Regardless is correct, and it needs no prefix.

  267. Cash December 15, 2010 at 1:25 pm #

    Hilarious? Ok you’re entitled to your opinion.
    But seeing now as we’re getting personal I agree with networker: you’re fulla shit. Shame on me, I took your post at face value. I’ll bet you haven’t got two dimes to rub together. A ton of degrees. Yeah right. From where, a diploma mill?

  268. Vlad Krandz December 15, 2010 at 1:42 pm #

    What drives me? The White Race is in danger of extinction and people like you and Cash don’t care – don’t see any particular value in it. Don’t see any relationship between it and Western Civilization. What a travesty and a disgrace. Do you appreciate some kinds of cars over others? Do you try to acquire some breeds of dogs or horses because of their special value? Yet
    you deny the same privledge to Whites that you grant to cars, dogs, and horses: that of having a unique value. And subconsciously, you probably grant it to Asians and Africans – do you admit they have the right to their own Nations? If so, you are a hypocrite and a vicious anti-White bigot. And that you are White just increases the bizareness and the shame. It borders on mental illness – one that you share with a large percentage of Whites alive today. And you think other races share your color blindness! Oh you priceless fool – I lived and worked among Blacks most of my life and I know differently. You claim the same, but don’t know. You are actively resisting the obvious everyday. They aren’t like us, especially not like you. People like me they understand and can at least respect as an opponent. But you liberals – there is no place for you either at our table or their’s. There is no place for you at all in the coming Age.
    Homework: find a Chinese person and ask him or her whether the Chinese people have any special relation to Chinese Culture or whether Blacks are just as Chinese as they are. Sound crazy? That’s exactly what you say about Whites and Western Civilization. But go ahead and do it – their look of amazed contempt may jar you into some kind of semi-consciousness.

  269. Vlad Krandz December 15, 2010 at 1:48 pm #

    They are trying to proect themselves subconsciously. They don’t want to say nank because that sounds like bank. It reminds them that this twit is in control of our money supply. The Federal Reserve Bank is not Federal, there are no reserves, and it’s not a bank. It’s private and foreign, and a scam of gigantic proportions in which they loan us money that they don’t have.

  270. Vlad Krandz December 15, 2010 at 1:50 pm #

    Oh I’m not a “worker”? If by that you mean I’m not Marxist street scum you’re right.

  271. Vlad Krandz December 15, 2010 at 1:56 pm #

    Yee Ha! You jus climb right on top of that lil Black Philly and flap your wings. You’re a True American. A politically correct yahoo pink neck. Yes siree. S’all right. You see, we don’t want you and don’t care what you do. Your children will be Black and that’s that. Your contribution will be zero and less. A debit to your race, in the black so to speak.

  272. k-dog December 15, 2010 at 2:02 pm #

    Only one race and that’s human.

  273. networker December 15, 2010 at 2:02 pm #

    Oh runty-one. You did so miss my point, but you may be forgiven since you do not know me. If you read carefully, you can see that I very deliberately made several of the most common mistakes in that one sentence – just for Qshtik’s benefit. :)

  274. cunning runt December 15, 2010 at 2:15 pm #

    No. I got it. Tongue-in-cheek on my part, too.
    Have fun!

  275. SNAFU December 15, 2010 at 2:21 pm #

    Howdy Q, Per snippet of your posts “Is it possible I am the only person on this earth who is concerned with such things? Do I need “professional help” or is it everyone else who needs it?” and last weeks “You’ve got horses on the brain … it’s nigh.”
    SNAFU bobs head down and up, paws at ground with hoofed right foreleg and whhhinnnieeees; which is well known in horse vernacular to mean “well I’ll be god dammed you are correct.” :-)
    On a lighter note my favorite mispronunciation is Favre. Why is “Fav re” pronounce as if it is spelled “Far ve”?
    Awaiting your submission with un-abated breath.
    SNAFU

  276. BeantownBill December 15, 2010 at 2:44 pm #

    It must be very tough being you. I mean, living your life where racial purity is of the highest import and seeing a gradual decline in that purity and only a very low percentage of the population cares.
    For what it’s worth, here are my probabilities of a few of the future racial outcomes occurring (based only on my opinions):
    Races merging into one golden race: 60%
    SHTF and the country breaks up
    into racially separate but equal
    regions: 20%
    Race wars, one country 10%
    Race wars, different regions 10%
    Non-white extermination/exile 0%
    Sorry, Vlad, but your vision of racial purity/white supremacy won’t happen, IM not so HO.

  277. turkle December 15, 2010 at 2:49 pm #

    Do you really think anyone cares?

  278. asia December 15, 2010 at 3:02 pm #

    But TIME has made Mark Z its Man of the Year,,,,
    I mean person of the year.

  279. asia December 15, 2010 at 3:13 pm #

    you have quite a handle CR

  280. asia December 15, 2010 at 3:16 pm #

    I have a friend from chicago who liked to go to black churches here in LA…for the music at a sunday service.
    said he had to stop, the blacks were ‘racist’
    [i assume that means he got angry stares]
    IN ANY CASE IF BLACKS ARE IN CHURCH…IS THAT GOOD OR BAD?

  281. asia December 15, 2010 at 3:17 pm #

    you noticed!

  282. cunning runt December 15, 2010 at 3:19 pm #

    Thanks! Made it up myself…

  283. asia December 15, 2010 at 3:32 pm #

    lets talk facts:
    JHK in his excellent book noted ‘in muslim lands half the population is under 18′
    [or was it in saudiarabia 1/3 is under 18?]
    ‘And it’s amazing – there really have been 10 million LEGAL immigrants allowed into the US over the past 10 years.’
    WHYS IT SO AMAZING????
    THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE 1965 BUT SNOWBALLING.
    whats amazing is how its fobbed off on black/white america.
    USA today etc ‘celebrating’ ‘we are now 300,000,000′
    Vlad….can you give him a reading list?

  284. asia December 15, 2010 at 3:35 pm #

    buy
    intentional mis Spelling? or freudian slip?
    either ways its funny and this blog could use more laughs,,,what with the reaper breathing down our backs.

  285. asia December 15, 2010 at 3:37 pm #

    You are new posting here?
    what about [in honor of TIMES person of the year]
    doing a facebook/clusterfuck page?
    Oh I live in santamonica..here we have an ombudsperson..not an ombudsman!

  286. Qshtik December 15, 2010 at 3:46 pm #

    Yee Ha! You jus climb right on top of that lil Black Philly and flap your wings. You’re a True American. A politically correct yahoo pink neck. Yes siree. S’all right. You see, we don’t want you and don’t care what you do. Your children will be Black and that’s that. Your contribution will be zero and less. A debit to your race, in the black so to speak.

    ==========
    I have to hand it to you Vlad, your writings, and in particular your ripostes to insults, are always superior to those of your detractors.
    And so, I’m going to overlook the fact that you used the nickname for Philadelphia instead of “filly.”
    ;o)

  287. Buck Stud December 15, 2010 at 3:49 pm #

    Cunning Runt,
    That’s an interesting question from the standpoint of semiology, but “colored people” was a Jim Crow era term bantered about in a derisive and dismissive manner.
    A more interesting discussion might be why “cat” has been assigned to signify those lovely, languid felines? What is it about “CAT” that invokes a lion, leopard or jaguar, and why does the word spot signify the patterning on a jaguar or a stripe the vertical pattern on a tiger’s skin?
    So much of language ( all of it?) is a cultural construct with no inherent connection between signifier and signified. A social approbation that serves to act as sign in many instances. A sign such as “All Colored People Sit In The Balcony”.

  288. Qshtik December 15, 2010 at 3:56 pm #

    you have quite a handle CR
    =========
    I don’t know Asia, I think the idea may have been stolen from a poster we haven’t heard from in awhile: Cupid Stunt.

  289. Qshtik December 15, 2010 at 4:08 pm #

    Why is “Fav re” pronounce as if it is spelled “Far ve”?
    ========
    This question comes to my mind every Sunday during Pro-football season. If I ever meet Brett I’m going to ask him to please enunciate his last name for me so we can settle this once and for all.

  290. k-dog December 15, 2010 at 4:15 pm #

    Earmark fiscal year 2010 Sen. Mitch McConnell (KY) requests $3,600,000 for the Kentucky National Guard Marijuana Eradication Program Frankfort, KY

  291. cunning runt December 15, 2010 at 4:34 pm #

    Santa Monica has an ombudsperson? Or is that a joke?
    I grew up in Pasadena; left in 1985. Takes an awful lot of oil to run Southern Cal. I found your recent anecdote about Pomona schools disturbing…

  292. k-dog December 15, 2010 at 4:37 pm #

    Payroll tax holidays endanger social security and tax cuts will grow the deficit and destroy the dollar but we still need money to go Gestapo on weeds.

  293. Qshtik December 15, 2010 at 4:45 pm #

    Irregardless. Supposably. Could of. Would of. Should of. And, as the Grammar Girl calls it, the “Apostrophe Catastrophe.”
    However its all copacetic and a mute point. I try not to loose it when there mistakes don’t effect me very much.
    ========
    Nice little compendium of the kind of shit that keeps me awake at night. Of course, it barely scratches the surface.
    I think maybe I’ll ask the next person who says “it’s a mute point” if they have a moot button on their TV remote. Nah, they probably won’t get it.

  294. Bustin J December 15, 2010 at 5:06 pm #

    Population commentary is usually framed in personal, emotional terms. Therefore, for the sake of clarity, I shall state it in rational, objective terms.
    1. Overpopulation is occurring.
    2. It must be stopped.
    3. The best ways of stopping it include limits on births and immigration.
    4. The most democratic, legislatable of these options is limiting immigration.
    5. Therefore we should limit immigration.
    6. Since the negative effects of overpopulation are cumulative, starting sooner represents enormous cost-savings and ecological preservation.
    7. Therefore we should start now.
    Uh, period.

  295. progressorconserve December 15, 2010 at 5:10 pm #

    Very well said, Bustin.
    Our host here agrees.
    http://kunstler.com/blog/2010/07/my-tea-party.html
    Now, what do we do next?

  296. progressorconserve December 15, 2010 at 5:31 pm #

    Buck
    I don’t know what region you are from, but in the Jim Crow South of my birth, the term “colored people,” was the reference used in polite society – either that or “negro.”
    The term “nixxxr” was used otherwise.
    While we are on the subject, it is funny how words shape shift and magically alter in these United States.
    I thought whoever *invented* the term “black” in the late ’60’s was a pretty smart guy.
    “He’s black – I’m white” equal terms of address for two races to be treated equally.
    I’ve never understood the INSULT in the term “colored person,” or, for that matter, “person of color,” “negro,” or “black” for that matter.
    And the term “African-American,” though non-insulting (for some reason) doesn’t make a whole lot of sense when applied to “Hatian-Americans,” or “Sengalese-Americans,” or whatever.
    And I’ve got to say that I have heard “African-American” said with as much disrespectful emphasis as I have heard applied to the term, “nixxxr.”
    I’m not picking a fight – there’s none to be picked.
    I’m just stating a fact.
    How many of you are aware of the fact that native born blacks (excuse me, “African-Americans) from the United States are held in very low esteem by blacks from other regions around the Planet?

  297. tzatza December 15, 2010 at 5:37 pm #

    “Thanks for the Judicial Watch story. That’s quite interesting.”
    You’re not welcome. And of course it is interesting and as it happens it is also the TRUTH. Now shut the fuck up and go away as asked. You a a nincompoop, wrapped in a fucktard blanket, inside a cave of ignorance. End and out, moron.

  298. Qshtik December 15, 2010 at 5:41 pm #

    Why is it more politically correct to say “people of color” than “colored people”?
    Where are you Qshtick?
    =========
    Odd … the progression of what was or wasn’t, but no longer is or isn’t, considered politically correct. Negro, niggra, colored, black, African American. Not to mention nigger, boogie, shine, spade, etc.
    But when you say “people of color” it takes the issue out of the USA and makes it inclusive of swarthy people everywhere. I think there’s a comfort in numbers that somehow makes it more politically correct.

  299. tzatza December 15, 2010 at 5:41 pm #

    “Turk, you are shameless and annoying. You made a statement and TZA ably refuted it.”
    As Tza does with regularity. Turkey-lurkey is a meat puppet in search of a brain. His efforts in locating one will remain fruitless.

  300. SNAFU December 15, 2010 at 5:51 pm #

    Howdy Bustin and Progressor,
    Per your snippets: “Overpopulation is occurring”,”The best ways of stopping it include limits on births and immigration”,”Therefore we should limit immigration” and “Very well said, Bustin”
    Apparently the pair of you are concerned only with human overpopulation of, I am assuming, the good ole usa. The mechanism by which limiting immigration into the usa helps to control world overpopulation by humans escapes me. Perhaps your immigration limiting technique is going to focus on the killing of any and all who would attempt to enter the promised land. Unfortunately this would be but drop in the bucket of that required and it would consist virtually entirely of Hispanic Americans. Not a viable plan as likely the Mexican Government would take umbrage with such an endeavor.
    As I have pointed variously on this blog the least offensive and most effective is cessation of the birth of new human babies for a sustained period of years to allow the natural death rate to reduce the human population to a sustainable level for the Earth. As pointed out by various other posters to this blog the Earth wide population likely should be in the 1/2 to 1 billion humans range.
    SNAFU

  301. tzatza December 15, 2010 at 5:52 pm #

    “Only TZA is trying to stand by the ludicrous statement (paraphrased) “ON THIS WEBSITE I AM ALWAYS CORRECT…”
    So, that would indicate that you have read postings of mine that are incorrect. I welcome you to cite them at your leisure. (I will not be holding my breath.)

  302. progressorconserve December 15, 2010 at 5:53 pm #

    ABSOLUTELY CLASSIC right wing stupidity and misdirection –
    You and Q find one error in Turkle’s many accurate posts. (Which I still haven’t seen because Q won’t read my posts whch meanz i ken sey whatervthell i feel like frun nu own, i guez)
    And you somehow force that one error repeatedly to the front – as though it invalidates the other 99% of truthful accuracy in the Turk’s posts.
    Dumazzes!

  303. progressorconserve December 15, 2010 at 5:59 pm #

    SNAFU,
    As I told you before, months ago – I’d be on board with your plan if you can figure out how to implement it.
    Maybe especially, since you’d be dictator of the world and I’d get to be your XO.
    We’d be the NEW iteration of TPTB, man – SWEET!

  304. Qshtik December 15, 2010 at 6:09 pm #

    Limiting immigration just keeps people where they are but doesn’t lower the earth’s population. We need a massive decline in earth’s pop. from 6.7B to, say, 1B. I don’t think the physical planet can hold on long enough for us to execute a nice tidy rollback in headcount by limiting births. That would take centuries if not millenia and would be fought tooth and nail all the way.
    The answer, I hate to say, is a humungous plague-like die-off which I hope would take the oldest first.

  305. asia December 15, 2010 at 6:14 pm #

    ‘that that’…from earlier this week.
    or it 2 of them in a row correct?
    you may always be correct but you are never mellow

  306. progressorconserve December 15, 2010 at 6:18 pm #

    Vlad – A couple of really smart posters have acknowledged some essential TRUTH in some of your ideas. Yet you keep going, and going, and going with the extreme white supremacist stuff –
    apparently in some internal belief that if people can’t accept the whole freakin’ package with every word as TRUTH – that they are not worth dealing with.
    =========
    You say:
    “Asians and Africans – do you admit they have the right to their own Nations? If so, you are a hypocrite and a vicious anti-White bigot. And that you are White just increases the bizareness and the shame. It borders on mental illness”
    ===========
    Of course Asians and Africans have the right to their own nations. So do whites, ALREADY! I agree with you – WHITE NATIONS ARE APPROVED BY ME, POC! We would call these white nations Switzerland and Sweden.
    The United States will never be that sort of all-white nation, Vlad. That shipped sailed with the resolution and aftermath of the Civil War.
    So pick something else and talk about it.
    Or emigrate to Switzerland and help them see the error of their ways.
    And yeah, I know the Swiss have problems with Muslims. I can’t help the Swiss. They won’t let me run for office or vote in Switzerland.
    I can only help you try to understand – and my family, my state, and my Nation. (country)

  307. asia December 15, 2010 at 6:18 pm #

    First…ARE YOU CUPID STUNT?
    if not did you derive yr name from that via rhyme?
    i emailed the ombudsman..it bounced back.
    TRY THIS:
    OMBUDSPERSON@SMC.EDU
    they got rid of the ombudsMANs email..[sexist]
    Santa monica ‘in the interest of sustainability
    no longer has paper towels in the washrooms at its 50,000,000$ leed certified green design library.
    gee..i wonder how large the architects and builders of it live!

  308. asia December 15, 2010 at 6:22 pm #

    on this one its NOT SO SIMPLE!!!
    immigration froim the turd world to the USA allows for more people to live and be born.
    yr smart…figure out how that works.
    remember the #2[?] source of $ in mexico is $ sent back from el norte…
    that $ gets turned into food.
    food makes babies.
    ask the irish…in the 1800s the potato got them to overshoot carrying capacity with tragic consequences.
    theres many ways immigration causes the world population to increase..figure it out

  309. asia December 15, 2010 at 6:25 pm #

    in short the world is not a level playing field.
    if it were yr canard would be true.
    1/3rd? of haitians now live in USA.
    1/3rd? of elsalvadorians now live in the USA.
    dumping 100 million people does allow ‘them’ to ‘overpopulate’…
    the usa is used as a dump and a stopgap.

  310. asia December 15, 2010 at 6:29 pm #

    I was hearing bernie sanders [?] on KPFK.
    i didnt know obama/the fed gave a third trillion in loans to japanese banks!

  311. asia December 15, 2010 at 6:33 pm #

    also:
    ‘Since 2000, legal immigrants to the United States number approximately 1,000,000 per year…. ‘
    one year under clinton was a [till then] record.
    ALSO THEM FIGGERS DONT ACCOUNT FOR ANCHOR BABIES.
    are AB 100,000 a year or 500,000?
    does anyone really know?

  312. asia December 15, 2010 at 6:36 pm #

    ‘emigrate to Switzerland and help them see the error of their ways.’
    highly unlikely..
    i assume Vlad speaks english as a 2nd language so
    hes from somewhere else
    and he knows how fulla crap white europeans [or their respective govts] are.I dont like california anymore [due to it being now 50% ? immigrants] but i wouldnt move to europe.

  313. asia December 15, 2010 at 6:38 pm #

    Youngster,
    give it 5 years and see whos ‘on the money’ [pun intended] with regards to americas unFALLING
    rather unfolding.
    if yr right great.

  314. asia December 15, 2010 at 6:41 pm #

    lisa you read the mainstream news all too much.
    as a brit said to me ‘i see more and more indians in southern california. i think they get in from UK to US’
    I agree with vlad.
    India may be the first nation with 2 billion.
    if it hadnt broke up due to muslims itd maybe over 2b NOW!
    the us is a dump for the unemployed from the turd world.

  315. BeantownBill December 15, 2010 at 6:42 pm #

    Your Favre comment reminds me of how Ben Stiller’s character couldn’t pronounce Favre’s name in the movie, “There’s Something About Mary”.
    Anyone remember that? The movie was hilarious.

  316. progressorconserve December 15, 2010 at 6:47 pm #

    Q, you say to Bustin:
    “Limiting immigration just keeps people where they are but doesn’t lower the earth’s population.”
    You’re in the US, correct. We can’t help the rest of the Earth’s populations if we don’t help ourselves first.
    That’s why reducing immigration to the US could be THE MOST important decision that we can help to push as American voters.
    ============
    On a personal note – you really may be the thing you fear most. You want to die at 71 in the big *die-off* and be done with it. Wimp!
    I want to live to be 100 – if I can do it with most of my faculties intact. I want to fight against collapse and death with all my might to help my children, grand-children, and (hopefully) great-great grand-children survive and thrive.
    If something should happen (God forbid) to my wife – then I want to remarry and use my 99 year old gene pool to help repopulate the Earth.
    That’s my plan for collapse.
    But good Lord, I don’t mind admitting that I hope I don’t have to work that hard for the next 40+ years.

  317. progressorconserve December 15, 2010 at 6:59 pm #

    Asia, I won’t move to Europe – I’m making my final stand in the US.
    My point was more to Vlad that if he wanted to live in a White Nation – then he should have beseeched his god (God – ’cause I know Vlad’s a man of Faith) to be born in Switzerland or Sweden.
    Because an all-white country is not happening in the US.

  318. Buck Stud December 15, 2010 at 7:01 pm #

    Progressorconserve,
    “Colored people” was most often uttered within a context of segregation. “People of Color” on the other hand, is a far more inclusive term, inferring integration. And let’s face it, what person likes to think of themselves as colorless?
    Try this experiment sometime: go buy a couple of sheets of black and white paper from the hobby store. Place the black sheet next to a “black” person and place the white sheet of paper next to a “white” person. At that point any person with decent vision will realize that all people are colorful to one degree or another and that the language of classification is imprecise and cumbersome to say the least.
    “People of Color” is a current language convention that denotes respect.

  319. BeantownBill December 15, 2010 at 7:03 pm #

    “The best ways of stopping it include limits on births and immigration.”
    That depends on how you define “best”. I could think of more effective means than the above. Like we could genetically develop and release into the world a new deadly disease (after innoculating all Americans) that would cause billions to die. Of course, there’s that little nagging problem of morality.
    Look at the issue of limiting births: We don’t have the power to impose birth restrictions on other countries. So the US population, with restricted births and immigration, stabilizes at 300 million, but the rest of the world’s population increases to 15 billion. Tell me that wouldn’t threaten the US.
    In fact, China, a very dictatorial country if there ever was one, has instituted birth restrictions for years, and still the population increased from the 100’s of millions to the present 1.3 billion.
    I’m afraid only one higher authority can make the population decrease – nature – via lethal pandemic, depleted agricultural land, plant pandemic, climate change, tipping point in environmental damage, asteroid strike, mega solar flare, mega volcanic eruption, etc., etc.

  320. progressorconserve December 15, 2010 at 7:07 pm #

    Don’t give up, Bean. Let’s deal with one problem at the time.
    You ask:”US population, with restricted births and immigration, stabilizes at 300 million, but the rest of the world’s population increases to 15 billion. Tell me that wouldn’t threaten the US”
    Of course it would. But first let’s deal with stabilizing the US population at 300,000,000 – hope our example helps some other countries – and THEN deal with the next problem that comes down the pike.
    Fight for the future, man.
    I can tell you see it coming!

  321. myrtlemay December 15, 2010 at 7:08 pm #

    LOL! “Q”, haven’t heard some of those words since the ’50s! (thank heaven!)

  322. BeantownBill December 15, 2010 at 7:16 pm #

    Procon, I think I’m about halfway between your age and Q’s. Most of the time I think like you (particularly after being in a regular exercise schedule at the gym, and my body feels great), I want to keep staying around to see the new marvels and opportunities that mankind can create (remember, regarding the future I’m an optimist), but sometimes I get so tired of the struggle, I can adhere to Q’s viewpoint and Myrtlemay’s. Luckily, that’s not too often.

  323. networker December 15, 2010 at 7:16 pm #

    There might, just might, be a lot you don’t know, asia.
    Check this out:
    http://csper.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/monopoly-money-and-the-international-banking-cartel/

  324. BeantownBill December 15, 2010 at 7:19 pm #

    I ain’t giving up. I never have and never will. Thanks for the exhortation.

  325. progressorconserve December 15, 2010 at 7:33 pm #

    100% agree, Buck Stud!!
    It’s unfortunate on this website that posters will simply – not – – respond — when they agree!
    (or, sometimes when they are beaten so badly that they run out of ideas – TZA?)
    You say:
    ““Colored people” was most often uttered within a context of segregation. “People of Color” on the other hand, is a far more inclusive term, inferring integration.”
    100% agreement – and that’s a cool exercise with the black and white papers. You know Crayola came out with a color for real *black* people years ago.
    My wife, who taught elementary school, was greatly assisted by this new Crayola crayon.
    She – and her students of all races – had gotten tired of pictures of MLK – where his face was a black as night – instead of a “real” MLK type color.
    Best Regards, Buck – what’s next?

  326. ozone December 15, 2010 at 7:53 pm #

    (Re: Mr. Favre)
    “This question comes to my mind every Sunday during Pro-football season. If I ever meet Brett I’m going to ask him to please enunciate his last name for me so we can settle this once and for all.” -Q.
    And then listen to him mispronounce HIS OWN NAME!
    How magnificently cool!
    Good one, Q.

  327. messianicdruid December 15, 2010 at 8:09 pm #

    “…they also lay the preconditions
    for future misfortune”
    Pride goeth before a fall.

  328. messianicdruid December 15, 2010 at 8:38 pm #

    “I’m not picking a fight – there’s none to be picked.”
    I’ve got a New Yorker cartoon in one of my notebooks of a cat chasing a couple mice into a mouse hole. The caption reads: “A Feline-American pursuing two Rodent-Americans”.

  329. asoka December 15, 2010 at 8:42 pm #

    Asoka’s LONG EMERGENCY Theme Song

    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    It’s been a long time comin’ (Friedman units!)
    It’s goin’ to be a Long Time Gone (47 years!)
    And it appears to be a long,
    appears to be a long,
    appears to be a long
    time, yes, a long, long, long ,long time before the dawn.
    Turn, turn any corner.
    Hear, you must hear what the people say.
    You know there’s something that’s goin’ on around here,
    the surely, surely, surely won’t stand the light of day.
    And it appears to be a long,
    appears to be a long,
    appears to be a long
    time, yes, a long, long, long ,long time before the dawn.
    Speak out, you got to speak out against the madness,
    you got to speak your mind,
    if you dare.
    But don’t no don’t now try to get yourself elected
    If you do you had better cut your hair.
    `Cause it appears to be a long,
    appears to be a long,
    appears to be a long,
    Time, such a long long long long time before the dawn.
    It’s been a long time comin’
    It’s goin’ to be a long time gone.
    But you know,
    The darkest hour is always
    Always just before the dawn.
    And it appears to be a long, appears to be a long,
    appears to be a long
    Time before the dawn.

  330. Qshtik December 15, 2010 at 8:45 pm #

    immigration froim the turd world to the USA allows for more people to live and be born.
    =========
    There is definitely an element of truth in what you say but I didn’t want to over-complicate my thesis in a single paragraph. Plus, I’m talking the whole world, not just what impacts the USA.
    So, if ALL immigration on the planet ceased the world’s population would still continue growing – ceteris paribus – though, perhaps, at a shallower rate. We need a massive decline that graphically looks like that first drop on a roller coaster at Six Flags.

  331. San Jose Mom 51 December 15, 2010 at 8:52 pm #

    Are you telling me that if I use the facilities in this “green” facility, I can’t dry my hands in the wash room? Yuck.

  332. CaptSpaulding December 15, 2010 at 9:14 pm #

    Europe will have the immigration problems we will, only in their case it will be caused by Muslims rather than Hispanics. If you really want to conquer the world, use fecundity, not war. Pull out your Johnson, not your AK47.

  333. latchkeykid December 15, 2010 at 9:26 pm #

    Oh wow! I actually felt comfortable visiting this site today. Thank you ‘nothing’ for inserting an actual comment instead of the word “first”. I’m dangerously close to labeling this site a trainwreck.

  334. Qshtik December 15, 2010 at 9:50 pm #

    Santa Monica has an ombudsperson? Or is that a joke?
    =========
    When all this “person”-instead-of-“man” nonsense was hitting its peak I came home one day and said to my wife “You’re not going to believe this. I just passed by the Wegman’s store and the sign has been changed to Wegperson’s.” She looked at me for a few moments without saying anything to see if I’d lose my poker face and when I didn’t she said “You’re shitting me, right?”

  335. progressorconserve December 15, 2010 at 9:52 pm #

    Agreed, Captain, when you say:
    ===========
    “Europe will have the immigration problems we will, only in their case it will be caused by Muslims rather than Hispanics.”
    ==============
    The question is WHY, in the case of Switzerland??
    Here we have a country with no military misadventures to apologize for – no history of wide-spread and racially based slavery for which to make reparations.
    The French have suddenly realized their culture is at risk, and they’re suddenly trying to do something about it. But they are screwed because of their former North African colonies – kind of serves them right, when you think about it.
    But the Swiss, WTF – WHY on Earth are they litigating about mosques in Switzerland????
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/30/world/europe/30swiss.html
    This goes to my thesis that we have a complete karmic collapse of Western Culture –
    Which will only be complete when the US is so overpopulated that we cannot help ourselves – or anyone else – at which point the human species is finished, as well –
    which may serve us all right, when you think about it –

  336. messianicdruid December 15, 2010 at 10:01 pm #

    “…and THEN deal with the next problem that comes down the pike. Fight for the future, man.
    I can tell you see it coming!”
    Similar Reasoning? Just asking…
    “Purportedly, it was Arthur Burns, Fed Chairman under Richard Nixon, who first offered the advice that helped to guide Alan Greenspan and a number of Administrations. The gist of the wisdom imparted was that if you ran into problems, you could ignore the budget deficit and the dollar. Ignoring them did not matter, because doing so would not cost you any votes.
    Back in 2005, I [ John Williams ] raised the issue of a then-inevitable U.S. hyperinflation with an advisor to both the Bush Administration and Fed Chairman Greenspan. I was told simply that “It’s too far into the future to worry about.”
    Indeed, pushing the big problems into the future appears to have been the working strategy for both the Fed and recent Administrations. Yet, the U.S. dollar and the budget deficit do matter, and the future is at hand. The day of ultimate financial reckoning has arrived, and it is playing out.”
    http://www.shadowstats.com/article/hyperinflation-2010

  337. Ang December 15, 2010 at 10:46 pm #

    Nice little compendium of the kind of shit that keeps me awake at night. Of course, it barely scratches the surface.
    I think maybe I’ll ask the next person who says “it’s a mute point” if they have a moot button on their TV remote. Nah, they probably won’t get it.
    ———
    HILARIOUS! Can’t wait to use that one!

  338. progressorconserve December 15, 2010 at 11:10 pm #

    Kick the can, MD.
    So Decider, BushII told John Williams that hyperinflation – “…too far into the future to worry about.”
    Doesn’t surprise me, MD. I’ve become increasingly convinced that BushII will someday catch the blame for putting the final spikes in the coffin of the American Dream.
    But a little hyperinflationary economic collapse is NOTHING compared to the Planet killing power of excessive immigration and 350,000,000 “Americans.”
    Check this out:
    http://www.cis.org/edwards/legal-immigration-cuts

  339. Bustin J December 16, 2010 at 12:13 am #

    - ——— @@@@@@@@@@ ———– –
    Qshtick says limiting births won’t work.
    He’s mathematically wrong.
    By limiting the birth rate to one child per woman, the population of Earth would inexorably creep south of 2 Billion individuals by THE END OF THIS CENTURY.
    – ——— @@@@@@@@@@ ———– –
    For AMERICA- if you remove legal and illegal immigration from the equation, America begins an INEXORABLE decline in total population. As long as the replacement rate is maintained, America could go back 50 million.
    Wouldn’t that be a great gift for the GRANDKIDS!
    – ———- @@@@@@@@@@ ——– –
    Ending ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION
    Look at the scope of what we’re already doing.
    TSA transportation security Admin.
    HLS Homeland security
    Border patrol
    State and local cops
    “Federales”
    National guard in some cases (aviation mostly)
    Solution:
    1. LEGISLATIVE. The law MUST BE CHANGED, MAKING IT MORE SPECIFIC.
    2. JUDICIDAL. More cases must be brought into the system and tried. This will require:
    FBI, CIA, ATF, DEA
    as well as
    Halliburton and other major government contractors.
    Everyone will get intensive training and subsequent field experience rounding people up and putting them on busses. The scale of all this may be large, but again, look at the scope ALREADY.
    3. We need some way to scale or ratchet things back down after we “unleash the dogs”. I would imagine that may require a complete change in U.S. foreign policy, to reduce the need for all the extra help hired for the “Immigration Holiday”!
    4. To make all this happen we need to declare a partial amnesty on the people who hired the illegals in the first place.
    FACT: MOST PEOPLE’S LIVES DEPEND IN SOME WAY ON THE GOODS AND SERVICES OF THE ILLEGAL SECTOR.
    FACT: MANY INFLUENTIAL AND HIGH-NET WORTH INDIVIDUALS PROFIT DIRECTLY FROM THE EXPLOITATION OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT LABOR.
    FACT: THESE ARE AMERICANS AND TO PRESERVE THEIR VOTE, WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE TO OFFER THE AMERICANS AND THE AMERICANS ONLY, AN AMNESTY, LIKE WE DID FOR THE SLAVEHOLDERS OF THE OLD SOUTH.
    – ——— @@@@@@@@@@@ ——— –
    Here are some projected facts:
    1. THE ENSUING CHAOS OF DISIMMIGRATION WILL RESULT IN SIGNIFICANT SHORT-TERM DEMAND FOR LABOR OF ALL KINDS, SKILLED OR UNSKILLED IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
    2. AGRICULTURE, ONE OF AMERICA AND THE GLOBE’S, MOST MASSIVE SECTORS, WILL HAVE TO RECEIVE, IN PART OR WHOLE, A FARM BAILOUT. THIS BAILOUT WILL COVER THE MASSIVE COST OF LABOR INCREASE THAT WILL OCCUR AFTER DISIMMIGRATION. IN ADDITION, THE FOOD PRODUCTS INDUSTRY AND ATTACHED ECONOMY WILL COLLAPSE. I REPEAT: IT WILL COLLAPSE. THE BUYING AND SELLING OF FOOD WILL HAVE TO BE RESTRICTED TO SPECIAL NOTES STAMPS, OR CREDIT.
    3. GLOBALLY, SINCE US. FOOD AND AID SURPLUS FEEDS ALMOST 40% OF THE GLOBAL POPULATION AND 2 BILLION PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE US ANNUALLY, TREASURY OR THE FED WILL HAVE TO FLOAT MARKETS, POSSIBLY ATTACHING AN ARM TO THE FED CONCERNED ONLY WITH THE FOOD/DOLLAR CHANGEOVER AND CREATION OF THE FEDERAL “GENERAL AGRICULTURE” DEPARTMENT.
    4. YOU ARE BEGINNING TO SEE THE SCOPE OF THE PROBLEM AND ITS SOLUTIONS. GOOD FOR YOU. NOW KEEP READING BECAUSE THERE IS MORE TO COME.
    – ———– @@@@@@@@@ ——— –
    The happy ending.
    FACT: EVENTUALLY, THE DOMESTIC ECONOMY WILL FIND A STEADY COMMODITY PRICE AS GEARS CHANGE.
    – ———— @@@@@@@@@@ ——— –
    Some predictable effects:
    FACT: ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION WILL REMAIN A PROBLEM WITHOUT A SOLUTION INTO THE FORSEEABLE FUTURE. PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS WANT TO COME HERE AND LIVE, AND AS LONG AS THE UNITED STATES IS THE RICHEST, MOST SUCCESSFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, THE INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL INCOME DIFFERENTIAL WILL REMAIN AS IT IS CURRENTLY.
    FACT: AFTER DISIMMIGRATION, WITH ALL OTHER THINGS BEING THE SAME,
    WE WILL SEE A NET DECLINE IN THE TOTAL POPULATION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IN NORTH AMERICA BECAUSE SUCCESSFUL WESTERN BITCHES DON’T HAVE AS MANY KIDS, PERIOD.
    – ———— @@@@@ ——– –

  340. Bustin J December 16, 2010 at 12:15 am #

    - ——— Epilogue ——– –
    The only way to get legislation enacted is a mass movement outside the two-party system to force them to make it happen.

  341. Bustin J December 16, 2010 at 12:30 am #

    That reminds me,
    EVERY FOUR DAYS THE PLANET ADDS OVER A MILLION PEOPLE.

  342. Qshtik December 16, 2010 at 12:58 am #

    Qshtick says limiting births won’t work.
    He’s mathematically wrong.
    By limiting the birth rate to one child per woman, the population of Earth would inexorably creep south of 2 Billion individuals by THE END OF THIS CENTURY.
    ==========
    Bust,
    I googled “China’s one child policy facts.” I chose the first article (link below) that seemed like it might contain some relevant data.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/11/world/asia/11china.html
    Background: China has had a one child per couple policy in effect since 1979 which continues to this day. That’s 31 years. The policy has not prevented the population from growing although it has slowed the rate of growth. Here are two key sentences from the article:
    “So it [the policy] has to be kept unchanged at this time to ensure stable and balanced population growth.”
    “China Daily reported that the population was growing by up to 17 million people a year.”
    There are also interesting comments about detrimental effects of the policy:
    A drastically rising population of aged citizens as a % of the total.
    A shrinking population of workers as a % of the total.
    And all of this does not even delve into how such a policy would be enforced in a country like the USA and other non-totalitarian countries.

  343. LewisLucanBooks December 16, 2010 at 1:22 am #

    Oh, probably just like the casino where my Dad goes to gamble away my inheritance. :-) . They recently replaced all their paper towel dispensers with hot air blowers. In the interest of being “green” and hygiene.
    Oh, well. 90% of the old guys don’t wash their hands, anyway. And my Dad wonders why I don’t want to TOUCH those machines.
    Oh, I think part of it is that the old poops just can’t figure out that you have to put your hands under the faucet to get it to run or that you have to stick your hands inside the blower to get it to work. Or, they just don’t like change. I know how they feel.

  344. LewisLucanBooks December 16, 2010 at 1:28 am #

    Somewhere, back upstream was a lively conversation on the appropriate nomenclature for those with an abundance of melanin. I prefer using “Black Folk.”

  345. LewisLucanBooks December 16, 2010 at 1:36 am #

    Then there’s the “Full Quiver Movement.” Some fundamentalist whack jobs who believe in just popping out as many little suckers as “God sends.” I think a lot of religious groups who are contraceptably (yeah, not a real word, I know) challenged have a hidden (or not so hidden) agenda of multiply and conquer.

  346. Vlad Krandz December 16, 2010 at 2:39 am #

    Just came out today – your hero Mike wants another dog. He says it will be good for his rehabilitation! What a Buck, huh? I used to crack up one of my Black friends with my Uncle Remus imitation: “Where you young Bucks goin’?”

  347. Vlad Krandz December 16, 2010 at 2:58 am #

    Thank you. I think so too. In Martial Arts, you thank the opponent for the energy or gift of his attack. Likewise, my enemies bring out the best in me lifting me to levels of eloquence I could not otherwise attain. As Willian Blake said, “Opposition is true friendship. I love these Low Lifes.

  348. Vlad Krandz December 16, 2010 at 3:17 am #

    All cars are the same – be it a new cadillac or an 20 year old plymouth shitbox. They’re both equally good because they’re both equally cars.
    See? Unless one understands the meaning of words CONSCIOUSLY, language easily becomes a form of self hypnosis. You actually think “all people are the same, they’re all people” actually means something – that’s it’s a philosophical proof? Or you think it’s obviously true? That’s because it’s circular and self referential. A tautology. There’s nothing there. Beyond that it’s demonstrably false – just like taking a quick drive will disprove the equality of the two cars.

  349. Bustin J December 16, 2010 at 3:18 am #

    Qtip said, “Background: China has had a one child per couple policy in effect since 1979 which continues to this day. That’s 31 years. The policy has not prevented the population from growing although it has slowed the rate of growth. Here are two key sentences from the article: So it [the policy] has to be kept unchanged at this time to ensure stable and balanced population growth. China Daily reported that the population was growing by up to 17 million people a year. There are also interesting comments about detrimental effects of the policy: A drastically rising population of aged citizens as a % of the total.”
    Those are the current trends, however, if the death rate stays the way it is (negative replacement rate) on a scale of 90 years you see peak population cresting and then descending.
    China WILL go down eventually under the one child policy. But it will peak.
    Now, life extension makes the replacement rate bump up making the overall peak and decline longer. But the principle remains:
    One child per man, per woman will halve the world population within a single generation.
    The Romans called them Saeculum.
    Peak population under this policy could make a high ceiling for world population from 2020-2040 and it would not go higher than 8 billion.
    We’re talking about the only solution to the overpopulation problem being
    1. Sane.
    and
    2. Fair.
    All other considerations are for baseline ethical reasons neither sane nor fair considering the global impact of the question. All other considerations involving the forcible denial of life.
    Opponents, religious or not, to population control will have to be a socially ostracized AS A general practice… BY MOST PEOPLE. That is the only social solution that is fair. In other words, anarchy. Again, borders are essential and nations must prevail and overpopulating nations will suffer extreme privation.
    That is why I mentioned American foreign policy would have to flip upside down overnight to make this happen. We give aid to get things like natural resources. We would absolutely be giving up on free trade.
    Considering we are still the world’s largest economy I think all of our baseline real economic fears are a little high. America, the country, could go it alone on the planet. “Free Trade” is just a lie, for the priviledged (people invested in world economy- mostly paper assets).
    America could close its borders and be fine.
    America needs to be a country that changes its mind, and just refuses to budge.
    The only way this is going to happen is a General Strike. The last time they tried this it was last Saeculum.
    “Immigration Holiday”.
    1. You get a flash mob of several millions of people. You do this through Youtube.
    2. At a specified time, at a specified date for a specified length of time, you sit on your ass.
    3. Modern day general strike is like that movie Office Space. You sleep in. You do what you want to do. (Probably surf the net and post to CFN).
    4. While everyone sits on their ass, the economy, running at (14,000,000,000 dollars GDP / 365 days) and enough people sitting on their assess to effectively stop economic activity) would cost ……
    $38,356,164.38 (38.4 BILLION DOLLARS A DAY)
    Normally, the “Immigration Holiday”, the “Work Holiday”, “BUSINESS HOLIDAY” (I like that one) would go on for, say, a week.
    During which said week, leader of the Youtube army has complete grip on the Balls of the United States.
    How do you get everyone to go along? It’s pretty simple. You talk about these kind of ideas and just about everyone will confess to thinking its a righteous idea. What you need is the initial group that will push the video up in viewer-ship.
    The video has to display a convincing image of the act being executed in the world- everybody having a “Holiday”. The video will have to have all the traits of a good movie. It is just a question of obtaining the quality material and releasing it widely enough.
    This guy might be able to help us:

    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    — — – – — — – — – – – –
    Here at Clusterfuck Nation, dot com., we talk about what should happen and what does happen with striking accuracy. Right now I’m merely talking about what must happen, and what should happen. But what will happen remains tantalizingly out of reach. The promise is that is there. Our solutions have always been right in front of us, waiting to be found.
    ACT NOW!
    SAVE YOUR SELVES!
    ALL POWER TO THE RHINOSAURUS!
    * Overpopulating countries, regions, and places will remain significant impediments to a return to ecological parity, until then, keep counting the dead, and wish ill on our enemies.

  350. Bustin J December 16, 2010 at 3:21 am #

    Heat guns can probably be used on the border although feeling hot & spicy might be something someone could withstand.
    http://youtu.be/NFRoMUorNEc

  351. Bustin J December 16, 2010 at 3:27 am #

    DEMONSTRATION of soldiers (under the influence of LSD)






  352. Eleuthero December 16, 2010 at 3:28 am #

    Vlad said:
    “Creativity? The Chinese taking over part of the US?”
    On this and other parts of your reply to Cash
    I must regrettably agree. As a resident of
    multi-cultural “utopia” (SF Bay Area), I’ve
    seen quite enough Chinese, Indians, and Arabs
    hiring their own and socializing exclusively
    with their own. They don’t even buy into
    Western culture which is why San Jose is the
    largest city in the WORLD without a major
    symphony orchestra … whatever one might read
    about Asian violin prodigies.
    The Democratic multi-cultural schema only works
    if all sides participate by “melting” into the
    melting pot. I don’t see that at all in
    California. Mexicans have Mexican construction
    companies. Asians have Asian tech companies.
    You listen to people walking up and down the
    main street of Palo Alto and you’re likely to
    think you’re not even in America.
    The Anglos in America may be falling down on the
    job educationally and in many other ways but it’s
    still a country whose inventions are almost
    EXCLUSIVELY American and European. I don’t
    think our visitors from the Asian continent
    show sufficient respect for that fact by
    even attempting to blend in. They certainly
    seldom speak in English to each other here.
    One wonders, for example, how one would be
    treated in China if one ran a tech company
    that had two token Chinese and 100 Americans.
    I’ve seen what the Chinese do to African grad
    students who try to date Chinese women. They
    get BEATEN UP.
    So the message is that ethnocentrism is NOT
    the “White Man’s Disease”. Indeed, from living
    here in “Multi Culture Ville” I’d say that the
    people with slanty eyes are WAAAAAY more
    blatantly ethnocentric than European-Americans.
    E.

  353. k-dog December 16, 2010 at 4:48 am #

    ‘human’ is always nice too.

  354. k-dog December 16, 2010 at 4:54 am #

    I know like a carnival side show, stranger than fiction.
    Obviously its not everybody’s kind of entertainment, few seem to have noticed. As usual that which is has horrible or unpleasant implications is quickly ignored.
    C’est la vie.

  355. k-dog December 16, 2010 at 5:07 am #

    ‘reification’ can be a very dangerous thing, it can justify evil and trap minds in narrow passageways.

  356. k-dog December 16, 2010 at 5:19 am #

    Now concerning this Revolutionary Moment
    I was busy today and just wanted to see if I missed it or not.

  357. Alexandra December 16, 2010 at 5:35 am #

    @ K-Dog….
    If yous not be featured in this Vid….
    http://submedia.tv/stimulator/2010/12/15/ca-cancun/
    Then I guess you did miss it, that moment that is…
    But many are no longer prepared to be just comfy-couch passive victims of change it seems…
    Military junta style futures anyone?
    Woof… woof…
    Toodle-pip!

  358. k-dog December 16, 2010 at 6:05 am #

    I enjoyed the video. Who can argue against down with MO FO except MO FOs themselves. To qualify as this weeks Revolutionary Moment however I must point out the rules.

    I never dreamed I’d see a revolutionary moment here in the USA – even with old Nixie pulling one fast one after another

    I point out “in the USA” means the Revolutionary Moment must be domestic, originating inside the country. Pseudoevents do not count and are disqualified as are hits off the genuine handmade clay Richard Nixon bong.

  359. SNAFU December 16, 2010 at 6:50 am #

    Howdy Progressor, Your comments”As I told you before, months ago – I’d be on board with your plan if you can figure out how to implement it.
    Maybe especially, since you’d be dictator of the world and I’d get to be your XO.”
    I sent the white house an email a year or more ago when they sent me an email asking if I had any ideas the president might want to consider. We are on first name basis since I gave him some money for his presidential campaign :). I asked him to get with the other world leaders and establish a Manhattan type project to develop a male sterilization compound that could be slipped into the food or beverages of all humans forthrightly or surreptitiously if need be. No response. I reckon the time is now to give the Illuminati a try :).
    I had hopes that the highly vaunted intelligence of the naked apes could be brought to the fore and we/they could be convinced to pull our/their heads out of our/their collective asses such that we/they might recognize that without a massive reduction in human population we/they and the rest of the Earth’s fauna are collectively FUCKED! Currently I observe such a minuscule effort by science in this endeavor that perhaps 90/95% or more of the human population do not believe there is a human overpopulation problem. The human proclivity to suckle the teat of religious superstition is definitely an impediment of massive proportions when one attempts to even discuss human overpopulation much less contemplate effective measures to reduce it.
    Qshtik is on the correct track unfortunately even the Black Plague/Black Death only reduced the Earth’s human population from 450 million to about 350 million and within 150 years or thereabout the little bastards had fucked their way right back up to 450 million and climbing.
    Fear not Q the triple witching point of nonrenewable (I prefer incredibly slowly renewable, but who gives a shit eh) energy resources, global warming (the Earth continuously experiences hourly, daily, weekly, monthly ….. climate change (y’all down there in Georgia continuing to enjoy the coolness? It has been in the zero to a bit below F in the early morn here for the past few days but I see it is a balmy 15 out there this morn rising to about 20 by afternoon.) and the high likelihood of additional economic malfeasance will likely bring about the required depletion of human population required. On the down side it is unlikely to be pretty nor equitable, may require a revisit by the Aliens. The upside is the effects will likely be permanent and humbling. God damn I hope religion does not rear it’s ugly head again in the aftermath, prolly it will.
    Progressor I observe that you appear to fit into my definition of a denier of human overpopulation with your snippet from a later post “I want to live to be 100 – if I can do it with most of my faculties intact. I want to fight against collapse and death with all my might to help my children, grand-children, and (hopefully) great-great grand-children survive and thrive.” My guess is that you buy into the concept that human life means something and that your legacy is in your genes. My contention is that anyone who believes they have a right to add to the Earth’s human overpopulation problem does not believe there is a problem.
    Asoka stand up and take a bow. How many others posting to this blog can say they HAVE NOT personally continued their gene line. A show of hands; Asoka’s and mine, any others?
    Well Progressor do I say “easy does it big guy” now or after you rip me a new asshole? :-)
    SNAFU

  360. progressorconserve December 16, 2010 at 9:24 am #

    SNAF
    You have highlighted certain intractable realities in you post – leaving me in a mental state approaching resignation.
    If there is no God (god) personally guiding the affairs of man – then our species has been driven into a position from which there is no way out. The reproductive imperative – obeyed by ALL species – produced our big brains. But now our big brains and our desire to keep reproducing has doomed us.
    There were points along the way where humanity could have been saved. But all these points were breached with a unthinking thoroughness that suggests to me that God (god) wants us dead – or else TPTB are really selfish, shortsighted, and stupid.
    Religion will play a big part in our demise. To pick the famous example – the Catholic Church leadership lies to the point that only a Catholic (DEVOUT) could believe their words (Words?) – but they were not stupid in their initial goals.
    To twist and finagle the words of Jesus (or even the doctrinaire Paul (saul) into something that says, “Thou shalt not wear condoms forsooth and verily all Thy sex shalt result in Catholic Babies -” is some world class prevaricating.
    But it was successful, for a number of centuries – you’ve got to give them that.
    I’m about half through with my analysis of your ideas. I’ll be back pretty quick, if BeanTown’s asteroid does not hit this morning.

  361. tzatza December 16, 2010 at 9:54 am #

    “You and Q find one error in Turkle’s many accurate posts.”
    One error? Oh, just a minor glitch. Where, meat puppet, totally misrepresented the way in which Paulson, FORCED banks to take a Fed bailout, OR-FUCKING-ELSE.
    Merely one more example, where turkey-lurkey talks out of his ass and swears it is Pavarotti singing.

  362. progressorconserve December 16, 2010 at 10:22 am #

    TZA –
    Turkle acknowledged that one error and explained in detail what *probably?* did happen with those banks and that bailout.
    Is that all you got that Turkle made a mistake on?
    Something important – please.
    Although it won’t matter – you will never change your mind.
    “The conservative mind is like concrete.”
    “All mixed up and permanently set.”
    Something tells me that you think the best birth control is for the woman to keep her knees together.
    And that BushII kept us safe, so all his other errors will be forgiven by history.
    I have no hope of helping a poster who employs “*logic??*” in the manner that you do.

  363. progressorconserve December 16, 2010 at 11:02 am #

    I don’t mean to imply that your idea is a bad one; and I’m happy to help you “war game” it out here.
    One problem is that religious, National, and regional powers would attempt to block its implementation – and some would succeed.
    The other problem is that evolution itself, would push, probe, and find a “work-around” to your birth control chemical. It might turn human evolution even more rapid and cut-throat – sort of like bacterial evolution – except with bigger organisms with bigger brains.
    Just plain old effective birth control has been blocked by the Religious and “sex can’t be fun” forces. I recall that St. Rayguns blocked funding for sex education/birth control if any sort of abortion talk or funding was involved.
    I’m saying that a first step toward practical implementation of your plan would BE 100% effective birth control and free, easy and de-stigmatized abortions. Neither of which will ever receive the backing of the brain addled short term fixated forces currently rising to power in modern American politics.
    ==============
    You also said:
    “My guess is that you buy into the concept that human life means something and that your legacy is in your genes. My contention is that anyone who believes they have a right to add to the Earth’s human overpopulation problem does not believe there is a problem.”
    =================
    I’m not an overpopulation “denier” as you put it. And I was speaking post-TSHTF, concerning continuing to fight for my ggchildren and reproduce myself IF the situation warranted.
    My wife and I are the same age. If we’re 99 years old – and the nearby men have disappeared or are unable to reproduce – implying that “regional?” human populations are back under the “background energy” requirements.
    Then I will reserve the right to locate some nubile young female of reproductive age to keep my (obviously amazing! LOL) genes in circulation for the future.
    My wife says she will even give me that permission note, if these circumstances ever present themselves.
    I think she’s betting that won’t happen.
    Maybe I’m hoping she’s right. ;-)

  364. ozone December 16, 2010 at 12:05 pm #

    “There were points along the way where humanity could have been saved. But all these points were breached with a unthinking thoroughness that suggests to me that God (god) wants us dead – or else TPTB are really selfish, shortsighted, and stupid.” -PoC
    Guess which! Your answer could involve you in future lawsuits by either of those parties. Or is it “partys” in legalese? Interesting (if time-wasting) thought, though: Whose cadre of lawyers has more [breech/breach]-clout? Godz or Menz? I can see it now… “Vatican sues Chinese for breach of “godz-law” regarding “fruitfulness” and “multiplication”. (Orchard husbandry and math? Hoo-knoo!)

  365. SNAFU December 16, 2010 at 1:10 pm #

    Howdy Progressor,
    Agree wholeheartedly that the religiously fervent would not be appreciative; be that as it may.
    The chemical cocktail to sterilize the male population need be effective for likely less than 40 years. It would seem unlikely that the beneficial evolutionary happenstance of gamma ray sperm cell modifications would lead to a significant number of suddenly fertile males within such a short time frame. Considering the 100’s of millions of sperm per ejaculation what thinks ye the probabilities of a single modified sperm being the lucky little critter?
    Going out to start my tractor and do a little plowing talk with you later.
    SNAFU

  366. San Jose Mom 51 December 16, 2010 at 1:23 pm #

    As soon as the dot-com bubble burst, so did the symphony. In 2001, if I remember correctly, the San Jose Symphony ceased to exist. My husband and I had season tickets, on and off, since 1986.
    Two weeks prior to bankruptcy, I had forked over hundreds of dollars for a subscription. It’s a darn shame.
    As for diversity in the Bay Area…I find Indians from Asia pushy and graceless. Also, when they redecorate/remodel in the suburbs, the result is often hideous. Bizarre colors, overuse of decorative features, (someone had a sale on greek columns!) fancy fountains in the front yard along with victorian light poles they bought in bulk at Costco. They forget that their house is a 1970’s era stucco split-level and that adding greek columns, victorian fountains, and gold-tipped iron-wrought fencing doesn’t work from an aesthetic point-of-view.
    The neighbor I turned in for child abuse is Indian. Her son had come over to our house crying after he’d been beaten with a hanger. “This is the way we discipline in India,” she raged at me. “You’re in America!” I reminded her.
    I did most of my growing up against the foothills in Cupertino. Jokingly, they now call it Chindia because every immigrant wants their kid to go to Monta Vista High School because of the test scores. In my old neighborhood, only one white family remains.
    Jen

  367. Cash December 16, 2010 at 1:58 pm #

    There’s two major things going on here.
    One is the cultural self abasement and self abnegation pushed by liberal elites on both sides of the US Canada border.
    In Canada they push the bullshit idea that we’re a multi-cultural country. As if Anglo Saxon culture and traditions are somehow inadequate. Except we’re not. We’re not a multicultural country and our culture is not inadequate.
    If an immigrant wants to make it here he has to be fluent and functionally literate in English, understand and abide by the terms and conditions of English common law, Canadian statute law and the customs and traditions of Westminster style Parliamentary democracy. You can scrape by if you don’t speak English or if you marginalize yourself by sticking to your own ethnic group.
    But you’d be one dumb fuck if you did. You come all this way, go through all the trouble of uprooting yourself and your family to start over and then you do what? Deliberately drop the ball on the 5 yard line?
    I’ve seen people do both. In the Italian immigrant community in Toronto there’s people that have lived here for most of their lives and who can speak only very broken English, like some of my own relatives. They’ve made no effort to get with the program. And I’ve seen other people (like other Italian relatives of mine) do the opposite. They came here with their ass in gear, they learned English, Anglo customs, they made themselves part of the larger community. I suspect you see the same thing in the US.
    Idiot liberals and multiculturalists piss all over the idea but, like it or not, English is the Latin of the modern world and Britain and the Anglosphere countries made themselves the go-to places on this planet because of their values, customs, and traditions. But the libs and the multi-cultis denigrate these values and traditions. It’s as if they think it gives them some kind of moral superiority.
    The other thing that’s happening (and I’ve seen it) is a gradual cretinization in our Canuck born people. They do not work hard, they do not study hard, they are substandard in their day to day work. It’s infuriating to see people with every advantage handed to them on a platter throw it away. So, as a result, people that come here from overseas laugh at our educational system, our lazy assed work habits, our slovenly attitudes towards our offspring and families. Do you blame them? I don’t.
    Look at our totally screwed up families. Used to be that an average adult had 2.8 kids. Now an average kid has 2.8 parents. Somewhere or other. Is it a wonder immigrants keep to their own ethnic groups when the alternative is to hang with what they see as a gang of pisstanks and losers?
    A month ago a magazine up here ignited a shitstorm by saying that some of our universities attract mostly Asian kids because they don’t fuck around. The schools have high standards and Asian kids are there to work and not piddle away their parents’ money. Other universities attract mostly white native born kids because they are interested only in partying.
    We gotta shape up boys. Fast.

  368. asia December 16, 2010 at 2:15 pm #

    Background: China has had a one child per couple policy in effect since 1979 which continues to this day. That’s 31 years. The policy has not prevented the population from growing although it has slowed the rate of growth.
    Well, then it wasnt enforced! right?
    im not saying its right but that if it didnt work it must have been due to lack of enforcement.
    and now how gender imbalanced is their horrible country?

  369. asia December 16, 2010 at 2:17 pm #

    Yes thats what im saying.
    maybe you can email the school [the library is not at the school]
    but fer the heck of it:
    ombudsperson@smc.edu
    tell em yr impressions of this ‘sustainable’ city.

  370. asia December 16, 2010 at 2:18 pm #

    as well as mixing Hare Krishna ‘philosophy’
    and other eastern religion into his own stew.

  371. asia December 16, 2010 at 2:21 pm #

    no…email the ombudsperson or look at smc.edu website
    this school has REQUIREMENTS

  372. asia December 16, 2010 at 2:23 pm #

    sorry the pc malfunctioned…
    should read ‘requirements for global citizenship’
    the head of the student government [an x marine]
    said he wanted decor in the student lounge that reflected ‘diversity’.

  373. mika. December 16, 2010 at 2:28 pm #

    We gotta shape up boys.
    ==
    Towards what future? The anglo-sino neofeudal plantation. I don’t think so. This thing needs to die. All of it.

  374. Vlad Krandz December 16, 2010 at 2:36 pm #

    Thank you for your response – I know it’s not easy to admit that I have anything worth listening to. And the more we are ignored and villified the angrier we will get. We know we have the key to the survival of the West. Just take it one more step: you see the ugliness, but now see the positive side of ethnocentrism. It’s what keep Societies alive for centuries and millenia. Only a people who value themselves, who think of themselves highly if not as unique have any chance of making it over the long term. The Zionists? People just like me, fanatics in other words. Yet everyone lauded them, admired them, donated to their cause. If you didn’t, you were scum. So why why aren’t Whites entitled to the same – FROM THEIR OWN PEOPLE?
    As I’ve said many times, I have no problem with trade and cultural exchange between ethnes and races. Or even sharing space if it happens naturally in a border area or a port city. An interzone as William Burroughs called it. But the powers that be want to turn the whole West into a giant Marketplace. It’s utterly vile -what gives them the right?
    Wow – you’ve actually seen this? I’ve heard about this in China. Apparently this was one of the things that set off the Tianamen Square movement: African Students raping Chinese Girls. Now obviously, the whole thing is a disaster waiting to happen. Chinese usually get to know each other before dating. And the dating is then largely social for a while. Overt sexuality happens late in the process – if before marriage it then leads to marriage. But with Africans, it’s always “hey Mama” – with attempts at full intercourse on the first or second date. So the Chinese Men, who are ethnocentric to begin with, are naturally outraged. Blacks are like this wherever they go. Sure it’s cultural – because it’s genetic first.
    People can’t belive that all these things have been studied in the laboratory and it’s not just prejudice. Blacks have significantly more testosterone than Whites -and far more than East Asians. Sexual drive varies directly with the amount of this important hormone. Whites are in the middle in this, but male Chinese anger is mitigated somewhat in that Whites men are often good bread winners for their Chinese wives. But if the White is obviously just trying to get laid, the anger will be the same.
    Don’t believe it? If we’re all the same, why do some heart medications work on Blacks and have no effect on Whites? The Left immediately felt uncomfortable when this came up – they saw the implications as they do with Black Athletic Superiority. If we’re different in these ways, there’s no reason to imagine that we’re the same in terms of IQ. They claim to accept Darwin, but then they deny him on this. We’ve been separated for tens of thousands of years – for us to be the same would be very strange indeed; a complete denial of Darwinism which finds diversity amongst individuals and groups. Such diversity allows for some traits to be selected for or not. The Left is basically against all diversity – their “diversity” is just jargon, a trick to end all real diversity.

  375. asia December 16, 2010 at 2:42 pm #

    ‘the Swiss, WTF – WHY on Earth are they litigating about mosques in Switzerland????’
    yr saying they should tolerate the minarets?
    what are you saying?

  376. asia December 16, 2010 at 2:44 pm #

    ‘There are also interesting comments about detrimental effects of the policy’
    I think you missed the #1 ‘detriment’…lack of females…they killed the babies [ payed for by planned parenthood and US taxpayers. the JohnBirch Society and Times/Newsweek noted this like 30 years ago]

  377. Cash December 16, 2010 at 2:58 pm #

    OK so it all dies. It will die, every civilization does. But what replaces it?
    We can’t all walk around with our heads up our asses like James the Gymnast playing with our toys, pissing away everything we earn while things go to shit around us.

  378. asia December 16, 2010 at 3:06 pm #

    About 20 years ago i read in TimeNewsweek that some afghanistani immigrants in [nebraska?] were arrested on child molestation charges.
    something about ‘genital massages of infants’
    they shrugged it off with ‘but we do this in our country’
    2 things struck me..
    1…WTF are muslims from afghanistan doing moving to the usa!
    2…the arrogance of the ‘new’ [post 1965] immigrants..no respect for the laws and customs of this country.
    a far cry from peeps ‘kissing the ground’ at ellis island.
    and hon as ive posted here before, my friend jon the realtor in santa clara[or is it clarita?]
    says the only guys with a million to buy a home in yr neighborhood are asians and they pay cash.
    they may then live 20 to a house with cardboard boxes in closets as commodes but thats life in silicon valley.
    yr thoughts id be appreciated.

  379. asia December 16, 2010 at 3:08 pm #

    ‘So the message is that ethnocentrism is NOT
    the “White Man’s Disease”
    yr homework: read ‘ THE DARK SIDE OF MAN’
    its available cheap online.

  380. Vlad Krandz December 16, 2010 at 3:09 pm #

    Just shows I’m not prejudiced against other cultures – just their people being in our land. The Vedic was not only a great culture, but was once a White one. So why not throw it in – it fits. Btw, many White Nationalists love the Vedic Culture for its Social Sytem based on sublime Metaphysics. Hare Krishna is just one approach to the Vedic, a pop one to be sure, but they do introduce people to the Scriptures. It’s a fun cult – the old President of the Long Beach Temple used to demand that the drugies bow down to the deities before he would sell them drugs.
    Give up you prejudice and cultural atomism. Things are connected – BUT as the alchemists say, they must be properly separated before they can properly joined. Letting third worlders rampage in is not going to create an elixir but merely a toxic slude with undigested pieces of shit floating everywhere. What we want is Stew. Have some – taste and see that it’s very good. There are not many truths but only One, that being known, All is Known. Such Knowers recognize each other be they East Indian Sages, American Indian Elders, or just White Trash Honkie Glue Sniffing Shamans (South Park). How is it that you do not know This?

  381. mika. December 16, 2010 at 3:19 pm #

    So why why aren’t Whites entitled to the same
    ==
    Spare me. Last time I checked Whites dominate on 4 continents. There’s every kind of white nation state for every kind of variation. This isn’t about the ‘white race’, it’s about thieving. It’s about free rent and getting something for nothing. It’s about victimizing another helpless minority and stealing everything of theirs, including their fscking gold fillings. And then feigning some imagined victimhood.
    The simple truth is, you’re nothing but a thieving barbarous beast. If the white race was really of a concern for you, you’d find some whore fraulein and get busy. As it is, the only thing that’s really on your mind is grabbing and thieving and victimizing others for your own pleasure.

  382. mika. December 16, 2010 at 3:21 pm #

    But what replaces it?
    ==
    Something clean. Something moral. Something alive.

  383. Cash December 16, 2010 at 3:44 pm #

    Something clean. Something moral. Something alive.
    – Mika
    It seems to me that every civilization that ever existed talked virtue but walked barbarism. But compared to 80% of the world this place is clean moral and alive at least in my opinion. That’s why, when these liberal multiculti nitwits start pushing multiculti ideas, it gives me cramps. They want me and my parents to live as they did in their home country, to celebrate their old culture? Why? Then why the fuck would they have bothered to immigrate here? Have these lib morons got any clue what my parents’ home country was like?
    For my parents this country was a gigantic improvement. They’ve never stopped telling me how lucky I am to have been born here to the point where I was sick to death of hearing it.
    So if you have any specific suggestions I’m all ears.

  384. BeantownBill December 16, 2010 at 3:51 pm #

    I do business with a number of Chinese. The second generation speaks perfect English, no accent. But when I have to negotiate with them, I say what I have to say, and they get together in front of me and speak Mandarin. I have no idea what they’re saying, and am at a serious disadvantage. But I do like the Chinese, they are an incredible people. It’s just annoying they don’t speak English in public, which I believe is an insult. I swear someday to learn Mandarin and surprise the shit out of them.
    Their customs are intriguing, although sometimes disgusting. Occasionally I go to the casino in Connecticut (ok so I’m not perfect). Several times in the men’s bathroom I’ve seen Chinese men hawking phlegm into the washbasin – where I wash my hands, and I’ve seen them blow snot out of their nose into the sink as well. Once I saw an older Chinese man take of his shoes and wash his feet in the sink as well. Ain’t cultural diversity grand? Maybe it’s just payback for my own tolerance of other cultures.

  385. Qshtik December 16, 2010 at 3:55 pm #

    Used to be that an average adult had 2.8 kids.
    =========
    That would be 5.6 kids per couple. Was that actually true?

  386. mika. December 16, 2010 at 4:10 pm #

    So what restaurant do you recommend for my shawarma sandwich fetish? :)

  387. San Jose Mom 51 December 16, 2010 at 4:44 pm #

    My parent’s bought the house in Cupertino in 1970 for $50,000. They moved out of state in 1990 and sold the house for $675,000. Last summer, the house was on the market again for $1.6 million. It sold after three weeks on the market to a Chinese family.
    I live in San Jose between Willow Glen and the Almaden Valley. Asians and Indians are buying up Almaden because of Leland High School (of Pat Tillman fame), because of the excellent test scores. Now they have a crappy football team.
    But with the cuts in San Jose Unified school district, who knows what will happen?
    My particular neighborhood, according to the latest census data, is 25% hispanic, 4% asian, 2% black, and the rest white.
    I was surprised to find out a few weeks ago that my son was a member of the Black Student Union at his high school (he needed money for a T-shirt).
    They had a community outreach at the beginning of the school year, and one of the kids in Jeremy’s physics class invited him to attend. He faithfully attends the meeting every lunchtime on Wednesday. They debate issues and since my son loves to discuss/debate, the meetings are lively and interesting. One of the officers suggested he be president next year, but alas, he is graduating. About half of the kids in the club are African Africans–which means they get good grades and have good manners.

  388. Qshtik December 16, 2010 at 4:45 pm #

    Once I saw an older Chinese man take of his shoes and wash his feet in the sink as well.
    ==========
    I can’t speak for the old Chinese dude but…
    In Nov ’09 my wife and I were in Dubai for two weeks. We were in one of their huge spectacular shopping malls and I had to “use the facilities.” I walked in and there was a swarthy complected man, obviously a local/muslim, and he was standing at the wash basins on one foot with the other foot up in the sink. I’m thinking .. “WTF? This is a first.”
    The answer is, the muslims wash their feet before entering the mosque and they have mosques everywhere including in shopping malls. The Asian Indian population in Dubai on work visas far exceeds the Arab nationals and I began to observe that they have some similar ritualistic foot washing practices, generally brief and perfunctory, before entering their Hindu temples.

  389. Buck Stud December 16, 2010 at 4:57 pm #

    Ask most any impotent Chinese man–you know, those low-testosterone humans from the most populated region on earth –if they would rather have some ground up Rhinoceros horn or Vitamin V and one will witness a profound admiration of the West.

  390. progressorconserve December 16, 2010 at 5:06 pm #

    “yr saying they should tolerate the minarets?
    what are you saying?”
    No, Asia – never said that, never implied it.
    My point was that the Swiss are a white nation. Why is the mosque issue even open for discussion in Switzerland? THAT’S MY QUESTION.
    Vlad keeps jumping up and down for a white Nation inside these formerly united States. That’s never happening because:
    1. Our Constitution does not support it
    2. No judicial precedents since the Civil War support it.
    3. I can’t be forced on the country – short of collapse, race wars, and lots of death all around – things to which I am opposed, BTW.
    Ah, but – Switzerland, Vlad me’ Lad – there’s your white Nation. So whites, blacks, Asians – everybody is entitled to their own nation.
    Case closed? Probably not
    Too bad

  391. Qshtik December 16, 2010 at 5:10 pm #

    So what restaurant do you recommend for my shawarma sandwich fetish? :)
    =========
    I don’t know about Toronto where Cash is (I think?) but here in central NJ we’ve got great ethnic restaurants of every sort including Lebanese and Greek where I’m sure you can indulge your fetish. And to make it doubly pleasant for you, we’re up to our eyeballs in Jews.

  392. Bustin J December 16, 2010 at 5:11 pm #

    Asia bleats, “China has had a one child per couple policy in effect since 1979 which continues to this day. That’s 31 years. The policy has not prevented the population from growing although it has slowed the rate of growth.”
    That is a contradiction: if the population growth rate has slowed, it has prevented the population from growing {at the previous rate}.
    There is a time lag between reduction of the birth rate to the level of the death rate. Eventually, it gets there if 1 child/woman is maintained.
    Population growth rate- Defined
    The average annual percent change in the population, resulting from a surplus (or deficit) of births over deaths and the balance of migrants entering and leaving a country. The rate may be positive or negative. The growth rate is a factor in determining how great a burden would be imposed on a country by the changing needs of its people for infrastructure (e.g., schools, hospitals, housing, roads), resources (e.g., food, water, electricity), and jobs.
    Population Growth Rates:
    China: 0.494% (2010 est.)
    USA: 0.97% (2010 est.)

    So yes, China’s overall population is still growing, albeit slower than the US, and this is probably due to a number of factors, namely, people still having more than one child, immigration, life extension, etc. These numbers in fact validate the one-child policy and demonstrate the mathematical validity of the concept. For example, substitute the previous growth rate (or any growth rate) to the population 31 years ago, and you have

    Population ^ ({growth rate} * {X years}) = Population size after X years

    GAFC, Asia. (“Grab a fucking calculator”)
    Asia could not keep his ignorance contained, and revealed: “Well, then it wasnt enforced! right?”
    Wrong, Bitch!
    China enforced 1-child-policy through a system of social, economic, cultural, and judicial policies and programs. Look, you might as well stop calling yourself “Asia” if you know absolutely nothing about it.
    Asia further established new benchmarks in personal stupidity by touting, “im not saying its right but that if it didnt work it must have been due to lack of enforcement.”
    It did work, it was because of enforcement.
    Mr. Asia also says, “and now how gender imbalanced is their horrible country?”
    Sex ratio (total population)
    China: 1.06 male(s)/female (2010 est.)
    USA: 0.97 male(s)/female (2010 est.)

    In other words, no big deal. If nothing else it might indicate why the USA is so full of pussies. And by pussies I mean bitches looking to give birth so as to experience the miracle and wonder of femininity.
    PLEASE DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK BEFORE OPENING YOUR IGNORANT HOLE – THANKS!

  393. Bustin J December 16, 2010 at 5:13 pm #

    Free stats! Stats for free! Cia World Factbook: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/ (Your IP will be logged, bitch!)
    Net migration rate:
    USA: 4.25 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2010 est.)
    China: -0.34 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2010 est.)

  394. progressorconserve December 16, 2010 at 5:18 pm #

    SSHHHHH – SJ, don’t go talking like this around our racists:
    “About half of the kids in the club are African Africans–which means they get good grades and have good manners.”
    ===========
    And of course all white kids always get good grades and have good manners. Mostly due to their larger cranial volume and low testosterone levels – ‘specially the white girls! hahahohohehe

  395. LewisLucanBooks December 16, 2010 at 5:34 pm #

    I have not continued my gene line :-) . Neither has my brother, as far as we know….
    Funny. I’ve never even had a twinge, not even a passing fancy. When asked, I often say “If I had kids I’d still be in jail.” I’ve never had the urge to replicate myself. My 89 year old father is irritating the hell out of me. Suddenly, out of the clear blue in the last 6 months he’s started moaning about not having grandchildren. A little late in the game to bring that up. I’m 61.
    I wonder … my Dad had 17 brothers and sisters. All single births, all the same parents. Other than one of them, none of them had more then 2 kids, and many, none. I’ve lost track of all my first and second cousins so I don’t know about them.
    So, our branch is lopped off the tree of mankind. What is lost? Well, a really good longevity gene. And, a great general health gene. Things better lost? A tendency toward diabetes (I dodged the bullet, apparently, but still cary the gene) and gene for vitiligo (progressive loss of pigment. If I live to be 200, I’ll be an albino.) Probably lots of other good and bad genes that are less apparent. Oh! A really bad one ends with us. A predisposition to alcoholism.

  396. Bustin J December 16, 2010 at 5:36 pm #

    Population Growth Rates TOP 10 Crib Sheet
    (Rank, % growth rate)
    1 Niger
    3.66
    (Religions: Haoussa 55.4%, Djerma Sonrai 21%, Tuareg 9.3%, Peuhl 8.5%, Kanouri Manga 4.7%, other 1.2%… WTF. Okay. There will be zero traction for UN population control measures in this country.
    2 Uganda
    3.56
    (Roman Catholic 41.9%, Protestant 42% (Anglican 35.9%, Pentecostal 4.6%, Seventh Day Adventist 1.5%), Muslim 12.1%, other 3.1%, none 0.9% (2002 census. Rationale for growth rate- Notice the proliferation of sub-cults of Christianity. A country with insane people believing insane things will conduct themselves insanely.)
    3 Burundi
    3.56
    (Christian 67% (Roman Catholic 62%, Protestant 5%), indigenous beliefs 23%, Muslim 10%. Obviously what is happening here is that the competition between Allah and Jesus is being waged in womb-space. Who can overpopulate faster? Which species of human bacteria will survive to the next level?)
    4 United Arab Emirates
    3.56
    (Here he men cane bitches in the streets and enforce cultural norms like male domination while preserving a thriving industry of Eastern european and Philippino sex slaves and prostitutes in illegal underground clubs where they sip Crystal and revel in the lifestyles of America’s hip-hop culture.)
    5 Kuwait
    3.50
    (Fuck yeah! Times is good. Growth rate probably due to the fact that rich muslims live all over the world because they have lots o cash)
    6 Gaza Strip
    3.29
    (How does a postage stamp like Gaza churn out a 3.29% growth rate? Easy, every woman has 6 kids! Damn- the Israelis aren’t kicking these people’s asses enough, I guess. No wonder they built a wall- I’d do the same thing. Fuck em, they’re crazy ass God believers.)
    7 Ethiopia
    3.20
    (How does a broke, starving ass country like Ethiopia maintain a 3.2% growth rate? Easy! By Muslim rape and circumcision, also, 1 cattle is worth 5 women.)
    8 Mayotte
    3.17
    (Mayotte is a tiny island about 10 miles across in the Madagascar strait off Eastern Africa. How does it maintain a 3.17% birth rate? Easy, they’re Muslim 97%, Christian (mostly Roman Catholic) 3%. Thats an island inhabited 100% by crazy fucking religious morons! Wonder what the environment is like?)
    9 Western Sahara
    3.17
    (I have no fucking idea how this growth rate is maintained other than the fact that Ethiopia is nearby and Muslim men usually have lots of cattle to trade for bitches, God willing.)
    10 Congo, Democratic Republic of the
    3.17
    (Congo’s Growth rate is somewhat legitamite due to the unfortunate occurance of extremely late-term abortions performed on a large percentage of the population using machetes and Kitchen knives, and each sub-ethnic group needs to replenish their standing and hopping armies.)

  397. Belisarius December 16, 2010 at 5:43 pm #

    “I’m afraid only one higher authority can make the population decrease – nature – via lethal pandemic, depleted agricultural land, plant pandemic, climate change, tipping point in environmental damage, asteroid strike, mega solar flare, mega volcanic eruption, etc., etc”
    Yes, most of those have happened before, and a lot of folks think something like that is coming up soon in the form of severe solar flare..polar shift and mini ice age. Not so sure myself.
    Also, if you check out the axial rotations of asteroids you might conclude that there is another “higher authority” that has taken a dislike to populations in this star system. These motions support an exploded planet hypothesis.
    Ancient legends and ruins in the middle east suggest a more recent effort to depopulate (2-6k BCE). A few chapters of one of many books (i have no connection) documenting this can be found here:
    http://theageofdesolation.com/Book-Source.html
    Will they be back? Who knows?
    If neither happens, then resource wars might lead to designer viruses or nukes being used.
    If left to mother nature the population crash might be further off in time, but just as likely. Exponential growth in nature is usually followed by crash.

  398. k-dog December 16, 2010 at 6:30 pm #

    You say “my Dad had 17 brothers and sisters” and then say “our branch is lopped off the tree of mankind”.
    Seventeen brothers and sisters means that your fathers genes are doing just fine. I can’t say about your mother because you have not given any details but even with out them the story the same but maybe a higer climb up the genealogical ladder is needed to prove it.
    Chromosomes are like cards in a gigantic shoe or deck and each card has multiple copies in the shoe. LEWISLUCANBOOKS is a unique hand from the deck but the loss of LEWISLUCANBOOKS does not mean the end of the genetic line for the chromosomes. Lewis yours are doing just fine.
    Ego want us to believe we are all special when in truth we are all lucky to be alive and that’s all. A need to feel special fuels a false belief that the cards which make up the individual poker hands that make each of us are endowed with magical mystical properties.
    In truth the only thing magical and mystical is the unique combination and how well you play your hand before you move on.
    Much of commonly belief is actually quite insane. (K-dog)

  399. ozone December 16, 2010 at 6:39 pm #

    “Asoka stand up and take a bow. How many others posting to this blog can say they HAVE NOT personally continued their gene line. A show of hands; Asoka’s and mine, any others?” -SNAFU
    Situation sub-normal here, as well.
    No further “growth” of my specific family’s djinn pool. Ma ‘n’ Pa had 5 chilluns; but out of us’n’s they gits only one grandkid (and them with only the one great-grand-niece). So quite a net loss there, BUT, I have 45 1st cousins, and they gots PANT-LOADS of spawn! (Plus, we’re a long-lived bunch of bozos.)
    Hey, we tried, we really did. ;o)

  400. ozone December 16, 2010 at 6:43 pm #

    Pretty funny wrap-up of the growth of the “human stain”!
    I’m glad that those on the growth curve have special dispensations from gawd, and are not spilling their precious seed upon the ground! ;o)

  401. progressorconserve December 16, 2010 at 7:06 pm #

    I’m no sociologist, but there are supposed to be real reasons that human populations under stress have more offspring.
    And other real reasons that affluent populations have fewer offspring.
    Of course, feminine empowerment and access to reliable birth control (and the intelligence to use them regardless of what Church Fathers say) are factors in these equations, too.
    Sociologists/somedamnexperts say World and US populations should *peak?* at some very high level around 2050 or so.
    I wonder if that’s just wishful thinking, though.
    Or cataclysmic collapse thinking?

  402. wagelaborer December 16, 2010 at 7:27 pm #

    Interesting, Prog.
    I just reported on an event that happened at my work, when one of my co-workers used the word, “nigger” in front of one of my other co-worker, a black woman.
    Contrary to the beliefs of Vlad, and others on this blog, my black co-worker was polite and restrained.
    I used to be a band parent, and we took our inter-racial band to a neighboring town for a parade, a town that still has the KKK in it. One of our kids saw a stand selling Confederate symbols, and he expressed fear, not hostility.
    There is another town that we went to for band competitions, but not parades, since the assholes there screamed “nigger” and threw things at our black kids.
    I honestly don’t know how black people stand it so politely. It pissed me off then, and it pisses me off now that our kids were treated like that.
    Just like the black man I talked about a few weeks ago, who visited his son, bloody and handcuffed, in the ER, and still had the presence of mind to speak politely to the cop responsible. While I had confronted and fought with the cop, and it wasn’t even my son!
    I realize that I was much freer to confront the cop than the father was, due to my color and job. That pisses me off too!
    And, by the way, the next time the cop came in, someone asked about a pin he was wearing. Turns out that they chose him to have special training, where “I get to wear black pajamas and kick down doors”. I forget the acronym.
    Really! Just like the Phoenix Program in Vietnam, and Battalion whatever in El Salvador, the pick the most vicious men in uniform to train for further repression.
    It’s definitely coming home, folks.

  403. wagelaborer December 16, 2010 at 7:29 pm #

    Whoops. Forgot the link-
    http://wagelaborer.blogspot.com/

  404. wagelaborer December 16, 2010 at 8:21 pm #

    I have read articles by and about Chinese people born since 1979, and they frequently mention siblings. I’m like, WTF?
    Apparently, the one child policy doesn’t apply to rural people, and it clearly isn’t enforced as strongly as the John Birchers claim.
    My Dad was one of ten kids, and I’m one of 11 grandchildren. His siblings weren’t inclined to reproduce like dear old mom and dad, either. The only one that produced three lived in a small town in Utah, and stuck to her Mormon religion. But still only had three!
    My husband is one of 6 kids, and my kids are part of the 6 produced by him and his siblings. Catholics, most of them, but not inclined to reproduce like mom and dad.
    It is true that crazy Christians reproduce indiscrimately in an attempt to outbreed us liberals. I know this because I work with some of them.
    And I accidentally made a snide comment about them breeding like rabbits while one of their kids was standing behind me. Whoops!
    However. She hasn’t married and started breeding yet, unlike her older brother. And there are 5 more younger than her. We’ll see how that plays out.

  405. asia December 16, 2010 at 8:47 pm #

    yes if the popualtion in China [a ruined,horrible place] is increasing…WELL ITS NOT FROM IMMIGRATION TO CHINA!
    ‘us liberals.
    And I accidentally made a snide comment ‘
    Yes liberals are very elitist and snide.
    i wholeheartedly agree.
    as far as whites [rich/poor, christian/non]
    up till 1960 or so the average # of children in a Us family was 4.
    now its 2 but the population is growing like crazy.
    due to you ‘liberals’ who love the poor/oppressed and bring em on in.millions a year of em.
    they breed like rats!
    keep up the ‘hate white christian ‘ thing, it besuits you.

  406. progressorconserve December 16, 2010 at 9:06 pm #

    Thanks for the comments, Wage. I read the blog entry about your coworker “D?” was it? She sounds a little bit clueless. Or else – young. I checked out the use of the N-word in question on urbandictionary.com. Use of that word is shifting – yet again – to include other meanings than as a reference and insult for black people.
    ============
    On an unrelated note, you’re the second poster to make reference to the John Birch society in connection with Chinese birth control. I wasn’t familiar with a connection, so I tried to GOOGLE it up and didn’t find anything.
    Can someone explain the connection with a web reference?
    And I should know all things John Birch. I actually went to the same all boys high school in Macon, GA that he attended. Attendance there could make one crazy. John Birch also grew up Southern Baptist, as did I. This also will make one crazy – if one is not careful.
    I’m afraid something affected the unfortunate Mr. Birch and some of his followers.
    Jury is still out on me.

  407. Qshtik December 16, 2010 at 9:45 pm #

    Asia bleats, “China has had a one child per couple policy in effect since 1979 which continues to this day.
    ==========
    Bustin, it was I, not Asia, who bleated the above sentence. Asia merely quoted me and then drew certain conclusions from what appear to be counter-intuitive results of the policy.
    The first thing you need to do before opening “your ignorant hole” is go back, find and read my post and, in particular, read the link I provided.
    Your statement that “That is a contradiction: if the population growth rate has slowed, it has prevented the population from growing {at the previous rate}.” misses the point entirely. Whatever the population was in 1979 when the “one child” policy was implemented, it is considerably higher today. Currently it is growing by about 17 million people per year.
    The point of all this population discussion is that the earth needs not just a reduction in the rate of growth or even a gentle decline from year to year in total headcount. What I think we are agreed to here on the blog is that we need a MASSIVE DECLINE and we need it NOW … like say 5.7 billion fewer heads in 100 or a few hundred years. Otherwise we are going to utterly deplete earth’s resources – coal, oil, nat gas, metals, water, forests, etc and destroy the soil needed to grow our food. At least that is our fear.
    Asia speculated that the reason there was no net decline in China’s population was their inability to enforce the policy. I’m sure he did not mean the authorities were totally ineffective but rather less than 100% effective. So it is possible, if I may just dream up numbers to make a point (since I don’t have actual numbers), that in 1979 before the policy went into effect that the avg children per couple was 3 and despite a goal of 1 they were only able to achieve 2. Further, lets say in 1979 there were 110 males to every 100 females (since we know that in Chinese culture boys are preferred and girls are often aborted or done away with via infanticide). And further, lets say (using the ratio YOU provided) that today there are 106 males to every 100 females. That would mean there was a growing proportion of females over the 31 year period that could hook up and have a child. And further, we all know that China has experienced an “economic miracle” over the past 3 decades and perhaps that has increased life expectancy and accounts for the drastically growing relative population of aged people.
    Put all of these possibilities together and what you get is a population that continues to grow despite a “one child” policy, albeit at a slower rate than existed in 1979.
    I think if we knew the truth of the matter we’d find that ‘two people have one child = lower population’ is waaay too simple.
    Asia awaits your apology.

  408. progressorconserve December 16, 2010 at 11:03 pm #

    This organization is dedicated to returning Sierra Club policy on immigration to sustainability.
    http://www.susps.org/
    Link explains what happened to cause the SC to deviate from stated goals.
    We’ve discussed the California Green Party – wonder if there is a similar explanation for their *inconsistencies* on uncontrolled immigration?
    And here is a weblist of organizations dedicated to population controls or one sort or another.
    http://www.google.com/Top/Society/Issues/Environment/Population/Pro-Population_Control/
    I refuse to sit around and passively wait for some sort of massive die-off. Uncontrolled dying is against my view of how humans should try to face an uncertain future.
    And to you knee-jerk liberals out there – I had the ability and intelligence to control my family size. Why should I not help others do the same?
    Anyone know of one of these organizations that is humane in its approach and worthy in its use of donated money?

  409. San Jose Mom 51 December 16, 2010 at 11:48 pm #

    Just my observation, but African/African kids carry themselves differently. They have the best posture in the entire school.
    When I observe people in different cities, there are different ways people dress/carry themselves, regardless of race. San Francisco is different than New York. Compared to San Francisco style, folks in San Jose are hicks.

  410. Vlad Krandz December 17, 2010 at 12:27 am #

    The John Birch knew about the Conspiracy long before the rest of America did. And for this they mocked to scorn by the liberal pundits for decades. They knew all about the Fed and the fake money ever since they started. Kunstler and his cohort owe them alot of apologies.

  411. k-dog December 17, 2010 at 12:34 am #

    Seems to be a lot of talk about the dieoff this week. For those interested Two famous mathematicians Vito Volterra of Italy and Vladimir Kostitzin a Russian who lived most of his life in France collaborated in the 1930’s (Paris) to study the integro-differential equation which describes dieoff:
    1/N * dN/dt = a – bN – c [integral of 0 to t goes here] N dt
    The ‘a’ term gives Malthusian exponential growth in the solution.
    The ‘b’ term limits growth by providing a crowding coefficient in the solution. Enough crowding leads to equilibrium.
    The ‘c’ term is the effect of accumulated pollution which eventually kills the population off.
    The equation has been successfully applied to studies of bacterial growth and extinction.

  412. Vlad Krandz December 17, 2010 at 12:35 am #

    Don’t worry, the Blacks will protect you from all those rabbit breedin White Christian Thugs. Oh God, I’d like to throw some holy water on you. You’d probably shrivel up like the Wicked Witch of the West.

  413. Buck Stud December 17, 2010 at 12:47 am #

    I wonder if some of the posters calling for a drastic reduction in human population would be willing to lead by example, like, say, the Buddhist monk who set himself on fire in protest of the Vietnam war?