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The Mummy’s Tomb

President Mubarak has about as much chance of sticking around his presidential palace another fortnight as a bluebottle fly has of conducting the next Easter mass at the Vatican.
–Last week’s CFN blog
     Oh well, poor call there. It seems that the College of Cardinals actually located an eager bluebottle fly named Franci Vafanculo in Naples and is having him fitted for vestments. The Latin instruction isn’t going as well as hoped, but he can always just stand there and buzz. Most people’s thoughts are on the ham dinner that follows, anyway.
     Meanwhile, and speaking of hams, down in the Ancient Kingdom of the Nile, another curious transformation is taking place: Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak is metamorphosing  from a flesh-and-blood pharaoh into that most enduring of Old World personalities, a mummy, to be entombed in the presidential palace for all time with his entourage of scribes, police captains, publicity managers, and boatloads of bejeweled scimitars laid upon him by fellow satraps and potentates of the region over the many years of his natural reign.
     Mubarak-as-mummy will be much more comprehensible to his American auditors in the White House and Department of State, since the only things that Americans really seem to understand these days, or even care about, are matters supernatural. The regrettable piece of the story is that Mubarak didn’t turn into  vampire or a zombie, two existential conditions that we are now the world’s experts in as we feast daily on the material remnants of our own empire.
     Case in point: the Superbowl halftime show. My Gawd, what a farrago of auto-erotic triumphalism tarted up in the raiment of techno-grandiosity. The renowned Black Eyed Peas vocal krew descended on cables from the ethers of Cowboys Stadium stuffed into carapace-like costumes that lit them up like robotic waterbugs while something like a thousand worshipful myrmidons in LED-rigged suits capered about the pulsating stage like bits of discarded CGI FX from the latest installment of the Tron saga. Message: this is a nation so dangerously intoxicated on fumes from the arson of its own culture that it will soon melt down into a smoldering puddle of techno-narcissistic glop. Our bread and circus hijinks (or, should I say, Nacho and Fuhball), make the late Romans’ antics look like a simple summer evening at the frog pond. In fact, nothing would make me happier in 2011 than  the coming-true of the threatened NFL “lock-out” – except maybe if Senator Jim DeMint (R-SC) were nabbed in flagrante delicto at a Super-8 Motel with a nineteen-year-old sheet-rocker of the undocumented persuasion. For that, I would definitely open the bottle of Lambrusco that somebody left at my Christmas party.
     Back in Cairo, events have momentarily devolved to a standoff between the mummy’s minions and a lot of people who are, apparently, just sick of the old grinding status quo that had Mubarak-Ho-Tep funneling the endless fruits of their miserable labors into the vaults of banks here, there, and everywhere. The Web is notoriously shifty where facts are concerned, of course, but somewhere in The Cloud I saw the mummy’s ill-gotten family fortune estimated at around $50-billion. That’s a lot of tana leaves, any way you cut it, and of all possible outcomes in the script-factory, recovering the loot would seem the least likely scenario.
     More interesting to watch right now are the peculiar gyrations of the US Government, which is acting a bit like a victim of Tourette Syndrome, with various figures up to the president himself emitting strange blurted squawks that resemble policy pronouncements but lack both conviction and official sanction. What it adds up to are the rather painful exertions of a world power that has lost its power to affect events in the world. I imagine that leaders in other nations – and even their rivals for leadership beyond the levers of power – have not failed to notice the American impotence over Egypt. But then, to me it’s not so much different than watching the US government’s ineffectual dealings with its own affairs, especially the ones involving money. Virtually everything about them is false, dishonest, mendacious, and ruinous.
     The Middle East gives every sign of blowing up into widespread disorder these coming weeks and months. We hear other little splurts and wheezes from the media sidelines to the effect that all this hugger-mugger could end up expressing itself at the US gas pumps – the only touch-point in American life where reality meets perception. To put it a little more bluntly, you kind of wonder when the people around the region might really start blowing stuff up. Revolution, once started, is rather like the insidious invasion of water through the eaves of a house when the ice-dams build up (as they are doing now all over the northeastern US). Seeps appear here and there on the junctions between the wall and ceiling, and before you know it an electric circuit inside the wall starts sparking, and that’s all she wrote for your house. Water within, water without, first the flood, the fire next time….
     But perhaps I wax a little too theoretical. As the week begins here, with all the smoke and confetti cleared from Texas Stadium, there is one sole dominating truth that really matters: the stock market only goes up.
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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency, and Too Much Magic: Wishful Thinking, Technology and the Fate of the Nation. His novels include World Made By Hand, The Witch of Hebron, Maggie Darling — A Modern Romance, The Halloween Ball, an Embarrassment of Riches, and many others. He has published three novellas with Water Street Press: Manhattan Gothic, A Christmas Orphan, and The Flight of Mehetabel.

473 Responses to “The Mummy’s Tomb” Subscribe

  1. Gingerfox February 7, 2011 at 9:38 am #

    First

  2. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown February 7, 2011 at 9:40 am #

    Great column this week. Love that “myrmidons” imagery. Don’t be too hard on yourself over your predictions, a fortnight is 2 weeks, right? A lot could happen in a week.

  3. Gingerfox February 7, 2011 at 9:40 am #

    Note to self
    Always wanted to try that in case it made me feel like a ‘winner’ as it plainly does for other visitors to this site. But no, just makes me feel like an idiot as I expected it would

  4. GAbert February 7, 2011 at 9:43 am #

    The Tunisian, Yemeni and Egyptian political crises were unexpected, spontaneous and surprisingly popular. On the other hand, the economic and political conditions (widely thought to have contributed to the growing rage and frustration expressed in these crises) were well known for decades. Recent precipitous economic decline that was unmatched by increases in government security spawned a volatility that was inadvertently set off by a spontaneous Internet social media phenomenon.
    These revolts may very well be just the beginning of something much larger and perhaps even transformational.
    Many assume that the US is immune to conditions that contributed to the Middle Eastern chaos. But is it?
    http://www.gwabert.com/

  5. Lynn Shwadchuck February 7, 2011 at 9:46 am #

    It’s too bad we in the rich nations only respond to the price of oil. We spend so much of our income on crap we don’t need, it provides a huge cushion for increasing food prices, which people elsewhere (like Egypt) are feeling and they’re expressing those feelings. We could at least not eat more than our share!
    Lynn
    http://www.10in10diet.com/
    For a small footprint and a small grocery bill

  6. RJGrones February 7, 2011 at 9:49 am #

    It was awe-inspiring the marriage of mythic military warrior-as-hero theater played out in the pre-game hour yesterday.. the whole affair amounted to a commercial for pentagon funding.. scarey culture we’ve become..

  7. empirestatebuilding February 7, 2011 at 9:50 am #

    My Psychohistorian friends are predicting that the stock market goes down if Mubarek stays. It goes up if he gets ousted.
    My money is on him sticking around. $50 billion buys a lot of friends.
    Aimlow Joe was here.
    http://www.aimlow.com

  8. bigview February 7, 2011 at 9:52 am #

    OK, Mr. K,
    The last line you wrote was “The Stock market only goes up.” but…
    …the only guy in the world who can possibly explain why is right here —> MartinArmstrong.ORG
    Cheers.
    A., from a-round-the-way.
    PS. Don’t hit yourself over the head if you never ever heard of him… until now.

  9. Warren Peace February 7, 2011 at 9:54 am #

    I’ve heard comparisons to the beginnings of the fall of the Iron Curtain in 1989, but I think the most instructive period to look at would be 1848. That was the European year of revolutions. Per Wikipedia:
    Although most of the revolutions were quickly put down, there was a significant amount of violence in many areas, with tens of thousands of people tortured and/or killed. While the immediate political effects of the revolutions were largely reversed, the long-term reverberations of the events were far-reaching.
    Alexis de Tocqueville remarked in his Recollections of the period that “society was cut in two: those who had nothing united in common envy, and those who had anything united in common terror.”
    How soon we forget:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1848
    In other news, Krugman’s NYT piece today points out what we all know: the global food price crisis is caused by lack of supply, due to the extreme weather caused by global warming. He also talks about the run up in other commodities, but fails to connect the dots to problems with our imperative of economic growth. But at least one prominent economist with a podium is starting to sound less and less cornucopian.

  10. progressorconserve February 7, 2011 at 9:54 am #

    Gingerfox – nice conclusion concerning FIRST!
    JHK, thanks for another nice analysis and a mounded mass of metaphor for us to enjoy this week.
    Don’t be too hard on yourself for missing the call on Mubarak last week, JHK. I don’t think anyone, anywhere on Earth knew exactly what was going to happen in Egypt until sometime this past week.
    And if all one watched was American news stations – he would have had even less accurate information –
    than would an Arab standing behind a pile of rocks on an Egyptian street.
    Personally, I saw the news coverage shift about last Thursday. All of a sudden TV crews were down in the crowds – and we were getting closeup and *authentic looking?* live shots.
    Who really knows about media these days.
    My other big clue that Egypt had stabilized was when I saw the FOX news coverage change. FOX NEWS on Egypt had been looking like REAL NEWS from all other sources.
    – until –
    “Egypt Obama’s Fault?” – Is now quickly becoming the theme of FOX and the US political right.
    OK, then!
    Situation Normal
    FOX bashes Obama
    All must be Right in the World.
    Everyone return to your usual programming.

  11. mow February 7, 2011 at 10:00 am #

    thank you remote control mute button during last nights’ perfectly dreadful half time ‘ show ‘ .

  12. Schwerpunkt February 7, 2011 at 10:04 am #

    All bets are off when there is a revolution, so predictions by news-minded people and Diana Psychic and Finder of Lost Loves have about the same rate of return. Whether the events in Egypt a) change the government there b) start revolutions in other countries c) does not do anything but give the NYT a chance to do human interest stories about how the protestors have a long tradition of music and food does not matter as much as the greater trends at play – that of a continued reordering of the world away from the USA and a growing threat of food, water, and dirt having more impact on us than iPhones, Internet, and innovation.
    http://schwerpunkter.wordpress.com/

  13. 1/4saw February 7, 2011 at 10:08 am #

    Just to continue your ice dam metaphor: ice dams are typically caused by hot air from the house leaking into the unheated attic.

  14. Onthego February 7, 2011 at 10:20 am #

    The US always seems to wind up on the wrong side of history these days. Perhaps it was the $60 billion we funneled over the years into Mubarak’s hands, half of which came back to fatten the coffers of our own M-I Complex. Pretty hard to care about what is going on in those mean Cairo streets when you are racking up the big bucks, I guess.
    The tribes in the Middle East don’t hate us for our freedoms; they hate what we do, who we support, and the way we make money off of the backs of the down-trodden. The fact that they sit on most of world’s oil wells is a game changer for all of us. But meanwhile, our government is desperately looking for another strong man to back.
    Tipping points are only obvious in the rear view mirror.

  15. topcog February 7, 2011 at 10:22 am #

    Egypt is finally having it’s own Tieneman(sp) square, as we had Kent State. I wonder if the garbage spewing from ms Clinton would ever carry over to a similar crisis here in the states? That is, a riot here would be met with care and compassion and the need for the protesters to let out their demands to the guv? Not. It would be met with riot jerks and snooping into the lives and families of everyone involved so to blackmail them later. I get way too tired from all this; do as we say, not as we do in this country. Love your analogiesMr K. Keep it up.

  16. TybeeTom February 7, 2011 at 10:25 am #

    Jim,
    Your comment about gas pumps (“US gas pumps – the only touch-point in American life where reality meets perception”) is spot on! I live in Savannah, GA and while filling up my 1991 car, I look at the facial expressions of my fellow customers as they gas up their rides. They seem to range from stoic acceptance to bubbling anger to an occasional “I’m mad as hell” moment. Where for this inchoate anger? Well, with the beginnings of the 150th anniversary of the “War of Northern Aggression” upon us, I’m sure we’ll see more efforts to distract the masses with retellings of Southern glory and Northern treachery. Another distraction while outside events and trends continue to paint us all into an isolated corner.

  17. BICO February 7, 2011 at 10:30 am #

    Thanks, GingerFox
    I’ve always wondered what the idiots felt like to be first.

  18. Desert Dawg February 7, 2011 at 10:31 am #

    Yeah, all those ice jams because global warming is pure bullshit and if every politician, on BOTH sides, was like Jim DeMint, the country wouldn’t be in the shape it is now in! I’m used to you throwing in your lefty progressive bias, but I often enjoy your writing and this one sucked! Why don’t you talk about who is really behind the Egypt riots and how code pink is in bed with Hamas, who was spawned from the Muslim brotherhood? Nah, because that would take intellectual honesty and not partisan politics, of which you can’t help yourself from jumping into!

  19. noel bodie February 7, 2011 at 10:33 am #

    Glad to see our taste on superbowl halftime is similar. but then what to expect from TEJAS home of: fuckindickarmey,deadeyedickcheney,tombugjuicedelay,w,enron,and the next savior for us all prickperry. what new motto will they hatch after compassionate conservatism,freedomworks/teaparty to continue the tejasization of what is left of the good ole usa. What is it about tejas and south carolina that breeds such lousy culture?

  20. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown February 7, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    Thanks, I needed a chuckle on this hungover Monday.

  21. Desert Dawg February 7, 2011 at 10:36 am #

    OK, say it with me….GLOBAL WARMING IS A TOTAL LIE! That’s what the science and common sense tells us, yet you people still try to perpetuate it…f*%#ing amazing! The arrogance of the left, that you can even think that we can influence what God has created just amplifies it! The question I ask and Global warming cultists, of which none of you can answer is…If we cause these weather patterns, then how did the Ice Age occur, when there was NO INDUSTRY WHATSOEVER?

  22. Desert Dawg February 7, 2011 at 10:38 am #

    And subsequently, again, with NO INDUSTRY, how did we warm up and melt?? Hint: has to do with the Earth’s layers itself and NOT from SUV’s I guess you people think if you say a lie enough, it will become the truth!

  23. ozone February 7, 2011 at 10:41 am #

    “…a continued reordering of the world away from the USA and a growing threat of food, water, and dirt having more impact on us than iPhones, Internet, and innovation.” -SP
    Shhhhh, Schwerpunkt,
    You’re disturbing my living fantasies of princely comforts and endless mounds of gimcracks and gewgaws, all designed to keep me blissfully entertained!! (I’m hearing that the Stupor Bowl didn’t “git ‘er done” in this regard. C’mon people, are we losin’ our ‘Murkin mojo?!?)

  24. CynicalOne February 7, 2011 at 10:42 am #

    JHK wrote:
    “the stock market only goes up.”
    Just like housing ;)
    Gingerfox @9:40 lol!
    Mornin’ PoC!!!

  25. ccm989 February 7, 2011 at 10:48 am #

    So far the Egyptian riots, quiet and largely peaceful, seem like a bust. Mubarak will probably just take his est. $50-70 Billion fortune (provided by the US in the form of military aid) and move to some place where there are no extradition laws. The Egyptians will continue to starve because they are poor and the Muslim religion seems to discourage the use of Birth Control.
    Overpopulation coupled with food shortages results in misery and death. Perhaps we should give far less in military aid and far more in Health/Birth Control devices. When a population doubles in less than 30 years, the food supply can never keep up. Global climate change will continue because it benefits Big Corporations that destroy the earth. The Egyptians and all other poor people can fight back by having less children. How terrible and cruel to watch your children slowly starve to death.
    Gas prices remain consistent at around $90 a barrel because our gas supply largely comes from Canada and Mexico. Saudi Arabia, which depends upon the Suez Canal, is a distant third. Perhaps the speculators are waiting to see which way the wind turns. In the meantime we should all be looking at energy alternatives and seeing if any of them work for us. Why be beholden to Big Gas, Banksters or Big Corporations if we can break ourselves free from our dependence on fossil fuel. Could be another quiet revolution brewing here.

  26. maineiac February 7, 2011 at 10:48 am #

    Desert Dawg wins the moron of the year award!!

  27. CynicalOne February 7, 2011 at 10:51 am #

    Desert Dawg wrote:
    “…If we cause these weather patterns, then how did the Ice Age occur, when there was NO INDUSTRY WHATSOEVER?”
    “And subsequently, again, with NO INDUSTRY, how did we warm up and melt??”
    What’s that I hear?
    Ahhh….

  28. CynicalOne February 7, 2011 at 10:52 am #

    …crickets!

  29. Rupert S. Lander February 7, 2011 at 10:54 am #

    I too hope for a season-ending NFL lockout, if only so we do not need to put through another SB HT show.

  30. SeaYoung February 7, 2011 at 10:56 am #

    Ginger,
    Congrats on being first. How’s Gilligan? Are you still as gorgeous as we remember, slinking around the island in your evening gown. You never seemed as approachable as Mary Anne, but that was your allure. Maybe you can tell us now, were you having a fling with the millionaire (Thurston Howell, III), Skipper, or the Professor? I always suspected the Professor. If I may ask, since everyone on the mainland smoked, I assume most of the castaways did as well. What happened when you ran out of cigarettes? Did they become currency? That would have made a great plot for a whole season of shows.
    Things are getting tough on the mainland according to this channel’s Shaman (Mr. Kunstler). I bet you would like him. He is smart like the Professor, more laid back than Gilligan, and much more astute than Skipper. I met him once at a conference in Louisville, KY. Interesting guy! He recently appeared on a History Channel show called “Profits of Doom” along with several other castaways. Personally, I don’t believe they are going to make any money at it, so I switched back to you guys on the island.
    Bye for now.
    Seayoung

  31. progressorconserve February 7, 2011 at 10:57 am #

    “retellings of Southern Glory”
    – TybeeTom –
    Nice handle, TT. My first thought was to suggest that you are not enough of a native born southerner to understand the deep resonance of statements like this – and of history being ignored.
    Just recently I’ve watched TEA party folks speak of the right of States to Succession – as though it was a Really Great Idea that no one had ever thought to try before in North America.
    But to redirect this discussion and hopefully avoid refighting the Civil War so early on the CFN thread this week –
    – Consider the following: –
    Despite all the changes since 1865, all the prosperity and US exceptionalism and Unity –
    The passions of that War still linger, and affect our National memory and our national dialog – after only 150 years.
    What makes us as Americans think that we have a good enough frame of reference to go inserting ourselves into the affairs of a 4000 year old culture like Egypt.
    Or to think that eventually the tables won’t be reversed on US interests in a land like the middle east – where hatreds and divisions are cherished and passed down from fathers to sons for 100’s of years – like beautiful family heirlooms.
    At some point the US is going to have to detach a little bit more from that troubled region of the world – and let the people who actually live there work things out on their own.
    First problem – our oil addiction.
    Second problem anyone?

  32. ozone February 7, 2011 at 10:57 am #

    “The arrogance of the left, that you can even think that we can influence what God has created just amplifies it! The question I ask and Global warming cultists…” -DD
    ======================
    Wow! Dunno what kicked that particular hornet’s nest, but I will give you exhibit “A” regarding “cults”. Pretty funny, the immediate juxtaposition of cults. No hazy vision of pots and kettles here?
    ;o)

  33. noel bodie February 7, 2011 at 11:03 am #

    yeah, he talks to himself, if I were able to get a word in to his rant I would simply say .. fuckoff.. there is no way to converse with such an ideological mind. Also ask yourself would the country really be hurt if south carolina decided to succeed? I mean really what would be missed except obnoxious racist segregationists and a bullet riddled capitol building that still flies the flag of slavery and a gang of dimwits that have no self controlas in .. you lie.

  34. wagelaborer February 7, 2011 at 11:07 am #

    It’s one word.
    No point in getting into an uproar, or a guiltfest over it.

  35. progressorconserve February 7, 2011 at 11:09 am #

    DesertDawg –
    This is a unique website, generally populated by people who really understand science, or really understand politics – or try to understand both.
    This is probably not going to be the best venue to find evidence that will help you disprove Anthropogenic Global Warming.
    Nor is it a good place to propose that drilling and burning more and more fossil fuel is some sort of solution to ANY problem we face as a Nation – reference the troubles ongoing in the Middle East since the 1960’s.
    But go ahead and take your best shot, DD.
    If you can present any new provable facts – I will promise to try to back you up with the CFN mob and try to help give your facts a full airing on here.
    How’s that?

  36. darksumomo February 7, 2011 at 11:10 am #

    “Desert Dawg wins the moron of the year award!!”
    Be careful crowning him that. He seems to be an example of Poe’s Law–not only can one not make a parody of a fundamentalist viewpoint that someone won’t mistake for the real thing, but the legitimate extreme viewpoints are often mistaken for parodies.
    Besides, the year is young. I’m sure bigger idiots will show up here.

  37. ozone February 7, 2011 at 11:11 am #

    “First problem – our oil addiction.
    Second problem anyone?” -PoC
    ==========================
    Second problem – our oil addiction.
    Third problem – we don’t think it’s a problem.

  38. Tomfoolery February 7, 2011 at 11:15 am #

    @Desert Dawg: i’m sorry you don’t get it (or read real science) but here’s the short version:
    back when the earth was still very much volcanic, all that toxic gas and CO2 was in the atmosphere and helped keep the planet cold (Ice Age) while a lot of heat was still being generated by the planet itself (the earth was in the process of cooling, solidifying). Over the following millions of years before we got here the toxic stuff and CO2 washed out of the atmosphere through the natural climate action of rain and snowfall and was sequestered naturally in coal seams, oil deposits, etc. as the volcanism mostly subsided and the planet reached a temperate equilibrium in all but the polar regions.
    i know it’s probably a waste of time to try to educate you as you seem to be blinded by the anti-science rhetoric of Beck, et. al. There really are a bunch of good sites where you can read up on all the details, ask questions of experts (and they’ll reply), and find out where we are now in the great scheme of things.

  39. bikegeez February 7, 2011 at 11:15 am #

    Jim,
    I love your posts, novels, and non-fiction works but as Yeats wrote “The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.”
    If things are as you say, which side are you on, which side am I on? Scary times!

  40. wagelaborer February 7, 2011 at 11:22 am #

    I was brought up, like everyone else, (except Southerners, I guess) believing that Lincoln was one of the greatest Presidents.
    Now, I don’t think so.
    Is the US like the Roach Motel? You can join, but you can’t check out? Why?
    And why is Lincoln revered for presiding over the Civil War to preserve the Union, while Milosevich is demonized as an evil war criminal for trying to preserve Yugoslavia?

  41. tstreet February 7, 2011 at 11:22 am #

    Freedom is a rallying cry for the revolutionaries but underlying all this is the price of food and the increasing inequities in income. While some freedom and democracy may be garnered as a result of the revolution, this won’t change the basic fact that Egypt is overpopulated and under resourced. Given the demographics, this is just the first of may explosions to come. After the dust has settled on the revolution, people will come to realize that you can’t eat freedom and democracy.
    Hillary said this is all a perfect storm. Probably more than she knows or wants to talk about.

  42. Smokyjoe February 7, 2011 at 11:26 am #

    Well, at least Egypt has those pyramids.
    I bet our stadii will never look that cool in 3000 years. The best ruins that fatso-nation will leave will be our Interstate road-cuts and the rubble of a few huge hydropower projects.

  43. James Crow February 7, 2011 at 11:26 am #

    There’s a Foxtard born again every minute! Anyone who believes there is a “Left” in this country has no idea what they are talking about. “The Left” – for Dawgy Doo – is anyone who dares to disagree with his narrow little mind.

  44. sleepysilverdoor February 7, 2011 at 11:31 am #

    I’d personally miss the beaches and peaches. Though admittedly, I wouldn’t be surprised if they got irritated with the rest of the US not liking their confederate sentimentalism and seceded. Somebody’s gotta do it first.

  45. progressorconserve February 7, 2011 at 11:33 am #

    Noel –
    Regarding the passions of the American Civil War – that we *think* we have managed to ignore:
    “….such an ideological mind. Also ask yourself would the country really be hurt if south carolina decided to succeed? I mean really what would be missed except obnoxious racist segregationists and a bullet riddled capitol building that still flies the flag of slavery and a gang of dimwits…”
    – noel bodie –
    I rest my case.
    PoC

  46. darksumomo February 7, 2011 at 11:33 am #

    I had a good idea what you’d blog about today.
    http://darksumomo.livejournal.com/306737.html
    I was not disappointed.

  47. ozone February 7, 2011 at 11:35 am #

    JHK sez:
    “More interesting to watch right now are the peculiar gyrations of the US Government, which is acting a bit like a victim of Tourette Syndrome, with various figures up to the president himself emitting strange blurted squawks that resemble policy pronouncements but lack both conviction and official sanction. What it adds up to are the rather painful exertions of a world power that has lost its power to affect events in the world.”
    =======================
    I found it to be downright embarrassing!
    Pick a “position” asshats. Lawdy, lawdy, seems like they (State and POTUS) were just desperate to be on the side of whoever “won”, in order to show they actually had some influence in the region.
    Soooooo, lesse, what WAS their final word on whose coffers they were gonna stuff with lucre and promises of luxury and eternal friendship?
    OH! Newly dubbed VicePrez, Chief Torturer and US trained Intell-i-chef, Suleiman.
    Nice job, good choice; that’ll work out REEEEEEEEEEAL well! Now, don’t forget to “follow through” with more guns and bombs… (those items keep the Suez open, don’cha know.)

  48. orionoir February 7, 2011 at 11:37 am #

    {First problem – our oil addiction.
    Second problem anyone?}
    canadian geese pooping on our golf courses.

  49. progressorconserve February 7, 2011 at 11:38 am #

    also noel bodie –
    It’s pretty obvious that you did not read either TybeeTom’s post or mine in detail before responding to either.
    And your response adds heat but no light to both.
    ===================
    JamesCrow – I’m not sure why you would resort to name calling on the open internet like this.
    DesertDawg is the man’s chosen handle, why call him something else that only degrades the dialog??
    This unregulated website only has 2+/- recurrent trolls who resort to insult and invective right out of the gate.
    Why go for three?

  50. wagelaborer February 7, 2011 at 11:39 am #

    Here you go – in their own words—-






  51. Kryo February 7, 2011 at 11:39 am #

    This alone was worth the price of admission:
    “This is a nation so dangerously intoxicated on fumes from the arson of its own culture that it will soon melt down into a smoldering puddle of techno-narcissistic glop.”
    I’m going to have to pass that one around, it’s so juicy!

  52. dbaction February 7, 2011 at 11:42 am #

    Dirty Dawg –
    I think you are posing an either/or situation. Either man causes GW or we don’t.
    The earth cycles you refer to are very real. Besides Ice ages we’ve had very warm periods as well. No doubt volcanic activity, solar activity, planet orientation etc. is, as you suggest a key driver.
    However you must admit that we are putting millions of tuns of heat trapping emissions into the air everyday from our power plants and transportation, not to mention heating etc.
    Just a thought.
    The fact that they are heat trapping is certainly established (that’s why volcanoes have such effect). The trend lines on planet temperatures has been steadily rising too.
    So as you suggest we are probably in a warming cycle. However this is the first time the warming has coincided with the addition of our own pollution. No matter what is going on it would seem to me that all the pollution and heat trapping gases we are producing can’t be helping.
    If the rising temperatures are likely to disrupt established patterns of agriculture and sea levels then anything we can do to lower our contributions of hear trapping emissions would seem prudent.

  53. Pepper Spray February 7, 2011 at 11:43 am #

    The stock market goes up until it doesn’t, then trouble…

  54. ozone February 7, 2011 at 11:44 am #

    Pahhahahahaha! [guffaws]
    Good one! :o)
    (how else you gonna make them world-changin’ deals, than on the clean green?)

  55. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown February 7, 2011 at 11:47 am #

    I didn’t know they had a law for that, but I swear the first time someone showed me the Phelps “god hates f-gs” site, I was 100% sure it was a spoof, and I was 100% wrong.

  56. progressorconserve February 7, 2011 at 11:54 am #

    Note to thread and Q
    yep, I misspelled secession as succession
    What the world really needs is a really bullet proof grammar/spell check combination.
    – that and geese that don’t poop –
    personal note – Wage – I like your posts from late last week and this morning. You and I are on a roll. Somebody could lock us up in a room with no weapons and we’d solve the world’s problems in short order. – or else we would pick some minute point to argue and strangle one another over it in short order – – ;-) – no predicting which one –

  57. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 12:00 pm #

    “This is probably not going to be the best venue to find evidence that will help you disprove Anthropogenic Global Warming.”
    That is not necessary. The proponents of AGW must first PROVE their claim. They have not. Doctored evidence, weather stations that used to be situated in fields but in latter years had asphalt heat sinks constructed around them don’t cut it.
    AGW started as a theory and remains a THEORY. Theories need to be proven before they become FACT. Back to the drawing board, MORONS. (Lying morons, at that.)

  58. Cash February 7, 2011 at 12:01 pm #

    This is just a wild assed guess but I would say that the demonization had a lot to do with the slaughter of around 8,000 captive Bosniak men and boys in Srebernica. That event plus the massacre and mass rape at Doboj, the massacre at Foca. Plus ethnic cleansing of Muslims, Croats etc.
    You’d probably get some push back on the idea that he was only trying to preserve Yugoslavia. Some would argue that the Serbs were just trying to do what the others were doing ie grab territory for their own ethnic group.
    The Canuck army got into some fire fights there while they were spending time as “peacekeepers”. But the fighting wasn’t with Serbs, it was with Croat forces who were beating up on Serb civilians.

  59. stlhdr February 7, 2011 at 12:05 pm #

    First problem: Oil addiction
    Second problem: Most everyone doesn’t know what they don’t know; MSM
    Third problem: TPTB have a vested interest in keeping us calm while and until they completely exsanguinate the corpse of our socio-economic construct.

  60. wagelaborer February 7, 2011 at 12:07 pm #

    Well, I’m glad you checked the thread, Prog.
    I got on last night and was merrily answering all your posts, until I got to the one that said you were quitting for the night.
    I’m guessing that we’d fight over details, since that what my husband and I do. One night we fought for two hours over the definition of surplus labor.

  61. Vlad Krandz February 7, 2011 at 12:10 pm #

    Did you notice how they’ve all shifted to saying “Climate Change” now that it’s become obvious that it’s not getting warmer? The Liberals are on a “God” trip – they actually think that Man is in charge of the Planet. Facts which get in the way are studiously ignored or when that becomes impossible – furiously denied along with character defamation of the heretic, “the denier”.
    It was much warmer than it is now even within historical time. The Roman period after Christ supported Vineyards in Britain. The late medevial period before the Renaissance saw the colonization of Greenland by the Vikings. There is evidence of grasslands and even low forests along parts of the coast that are just not there anymore – not since the Little Ice Age which doomed the colony.
    Another variant on Global Warming as a religion: some of the Cultists think of the Earth as a the Deity and Modern Man as a sinner who needs to repent. In effect, this means close down the coal mines and wait around to die. Or at best, sell the coal to the Chinese and let America die. They like that one alot since America is particularly evil.
    Of course not of this is to say that Humans don’t effect the environment at all. Humans have deforested Europe. Excessive agriculture many have helped spread the desert in North Africa. The American Indians may have hunted the Wooly Mamoth to extinction. And some of these “local” but widespread actions might effect weather patterns to some degree. And all of this certainly effects the life of man. So while fighting against the Cult I do not in any way disparage or discourage a rational Environmentalism.

  62. Qshtik February 7, 2011 at 12:11 pm #

    We could at least not eat more than our share!
    ============
    How very liberal and socialistic of you to think in such terms, as the vast majority around here do … but I’m afraid the notion of “our share” is an illusion.

  63. wagelaborer February 7, 2011 at 12:12 pm #

    There were not 8,000 bodies found in Srebrenica, Cash.
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=17836
    And the Civil War killed over 600,000 Americans and is hailed as a great war.
    The hypocrisy is what bothers me.

  64. Stelios February 7, 2011 at 12:13 pm #

    [quote]This alone was worth the price of admission:
    “This is a nation so dangerously intoxicated on fumes from the arson of its own culture that it will soon melt down into a smoldering puddle of techno-narcissistic glop.”[/quote]
    I thought so too Kryo. Love it Jim!

  65. emaho February 7, 2011 at 12:13 pm #

    LAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  66. progressorconserve February 7, 2011 at 12:15 pm #

    I would like to introduce all new posters to our famous resident troll.
    “Back to the drawing board, MORONS. (Lying morons, at that.)”
    notOEO
    aka notmommy
    aka lingling
    aka jimjim
    aka bico – maybe, not enough evidence just yet
    This poster has a desire to debate but lacks the desire for helpful or rewarding debate.
    And he seems confused on the difference in a scientific theory – example – “humans are warming the planet” –
    With scientific fact – “average global temperatures have increased over the past 50 years.”
    These issues would be quite worthy of polite discussion. notOEO, sadly, is incapable of not using insults, and thus is incapable of polite discussion.
    If he responds to me before I have to go to work, I will demonstrate the 6 letter response that is best for such a poster. I****E
    But not to worry – He’ll probably be gone soon anyway. IGNORE

  67. emaho February 7, 2011 at 12:17 pm #

    Last…and proud of it!

  68. Vlad Krandz February 7, 2011 at 12:18 pm #

    Exactly. The Kosovo doctrine which they are so proud of can be invoked by others – say Mexicans who want the American Southwest or Whites who want the Northwest. One is staggered by the idiocy of these louts. They bombed an ancient European Nation to set up another Muslim State in Europe along side Albania. Apparently the Albanian mob is now in America as well. They are difficult to infiltrate because of the language and the religion. No doubt some of their proceeds go to international Jihad. This is what NATO was supporting when it bombed Serbia.

  69. Qshtik February 7, 2011 at 12:20 pm #

    …the only guy in the world who can possibly explain why is right here —> MartinArmstrong.ORG
    =============
    Martin Armstrong is a crackpot banging out market pseudo-science from a prison cell somewhere on what apparently is a 60 year old Royal typewriter in need of a new ribbon.

  70. asoka February 7, 2011 at 12:21 pm #

    Good morning, DD.
    It’s the humans that did it.
    It is human activity causing global warming and the ice core studies have proven it. New evidence suggests that concentrations of CO2 started rising about 8,000 years ago. Way before the industrial age.
    Some 3,000 years later the same thing happened to methane, another heat-trapping gas. Human activities tied to farming — primarily agricultural deforestation and crop irrigation — added the extra CO2 and methane to the atmosphere.
    These activities explained both the reversals in gas trends from previous ice cores and the ongoing increases right up to the start of the industrial era.
    Since then, modern technological innovations have brought about even faster rises in greenhouse gas concentrations.
    Cores of ice drilled in the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets have provided valuable evidence about the earth’s past climate, including changes in the concentrations of the greenhouse gases. It’s the humans that did it.
    Asoka, not crickets.

  71. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    “And he seems confused on the difference in a scientific theory – example – “humans are warming the planet” –
    With scientific fact – “average global temperatures have increased over the past 50 years.”
    Well, well. You seem to be in a hurry to display your idiocy. I did not say that global temps were not rising. That is a demonstrative fact. You stated:
    “This is probably not going to be the best venue to find evidence that will help you disprove Anthropogenic Global Warming.”
    Anthropogenic Global Warming has not been proven. That makes it a theory. I’m afraid you seem to be the one who is confused. (Now there is a surprise.)

  72. loveday February 7, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

    Hi Jim
    Great blog again! I also noticed the terrible half time show and terrible commercials. We usually mute commercials at our house, just too noisy and disruptive, but hubby wanted to check out the new ones for Super Bowl. Very diasappointing.
    There’s a nice comparison that is called to mind between Mummy Mubarak and the loudly annoying B level performance at half time. Both appear to be in pretty bad shape.
    Thought I would let you know about the new book I picked up ” Political Ponerology” by Andrew M. Lobaszewski, a fascinating discussion of evil adjusted for political purposes. Check it out it answered some of my questions about why things are the way they are.
    Have a great week everyone

  73. progressorconserve February 7, 2011 at 12:29 pm #

    “You seem to be in a hurry to display your idiocy.”
    notMommy – aka notOEO
    Only two insults. “(Now there is a surprise.)” Maybe you can help speak for the honest polite right wing on CFN yet.
    Someone else might enjoy answering your charges in a polite and factual manner.
    I am disengaging for a few hours, notOEO
    Otherwise, we of CFN must I****E

  74. BICO February 7, 2011 at 12:33 pm #

    Say what? When did I get put in the notOEO camp?

  75. wagelaborer February 7, 2011 at 12:34 pm #

    And why do the liberals and the conservatives take it for granted that the US should be the one to decide if Mubarek should stay or go?

  76. noel bodie February 7, 2011 at 12:37 pm #

    I was not responding to either of you, actually responding to Mainieac, just expressing my feelings , and true I was going for heat. trying to get back to basics, also allow me to correct spelling.. seceed is what I meant.. nothing worse than misspelling when trying to be a provocateur.

  77. progressorconserve February 7, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    Sorry, BICO, if I’m off base here.
    I just noticed the coincidence in time last week and assumed you were the same guy with multiple screennames.
    So, since I am apparently mistaken in this belief that you and notOEO/jim/tza/ling/mommy
    are one and the same.
    I hereby formally apologize to you, BICO – in front of the whole of CFN.
    Now, y’all see how easy that was.
    It can be almost that easy in the real world!

  78. Dee Rohner February 7, 2011 at 12:40 pm #

    Jim,
    Your core narrative would seem more relevant than this Mubarak rant.
    Peak oil for Egypt has meant declining oil and gas revenues.
    This, in turn, means that food subsidies have all but ended.
    Rising food prices, growing unemployment, a kleptocratic elite, and oppressive security forces have produced many with nothing to loose.
    When a young man cannot raise a bride price and sees no future prospect of marriage, family, home or any security just what is he to do?

  79. Qshtik February 7, 2011 at 12:40 pm #

    thank you remote control mute button during last nights’ perfectly dreadful half time ‘ show ‘ .
    ===========
    I’ll tell you what’s dreadful MOW: being in a room full of family watching the big spectacle and at the conclusion hearing them erupt into screams of “what a great show.” I worry … seriously, I do.

  80. Mike in Albany February 7, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

    This might be a dumb question. But if you are an American and you receive federal money for any reason, whether it is a construction contract, a project operating grant, or something intended for poor people like the housing subsidy or an SSI check, they watch you. They want to make sure that you are qualified, that you are maintaining your eligibility, and that you are accountable for every penny that they give you. If there is even so much as one hint of mismanagement or fraud, or even a mistake, they throw the book at you, and try to punish you as hard as they can get away with.
    Why don’t they do the same thing for heads of state in foreign countries who receive American foreign aid? People like Hosni Mubarak, and the estates of Saddam Hussein and Yasser Arafat have tens of billions of dollars in cash from our Bureau of Printing and Engraving. Why are our officials not making sure that our money is being used for the objectives that were laid out in the contracts that were written to grant them the money? Why are they not watched and examined in the same way that domestic recipients are? Why are they not investigated, audited, caught and arrested? Why are they not tried for fraud? Why is not the money either recovered or managed by an appointed director to be reinvested in the original purposes in the original contracts to benefit the citizens of those countries?

  81. wagelaborer February 7, 2011 at 12:45 pm #

    And food speculation has real impact on people in other countries –
    “Other researchers have concurred in this explanation of the food crisis. In a July 2010 article called “How Goldman Sachs Gambled on Starving the World’s Poor – And Won,” journalist Johann Hari observed:
    Beginning in late 2006, world food prices began rising. A year later, wheat price had gone up 80 percent, maize by 90 percent and rice by 320 percent. Food riots broke out in more than 30 countries, and 200 million people faced malnutrition and starvation. Suddenly, in the spring of 2008, food prices fell to previous levels, as if by magic. Jean Ziegler, the UN Special Rapporteur on the Right to Food, has called this “a silent mass murder,” entirely due to “man-made actions.”
    http://www.truth-out.org/the-egyptian-tinderbox-how-banks-and-investors-are-starving-third-world67424

  82. asoka February 7, 2011 at 12:45 pm #

    BICO said: “Say what? When did I get put in the notOEO camp?”
    =======
    Good morning, BICO. It sorta makes sense. NotOEO is in favor of smaller government. Anarchists are in favor of smaller government. Ipso facto, BICO gets put into the NotOEO camp … unfairly I might add because there is a world of difference between the two of you.

  83. slinkydog51 February 7, 2011 at 12:50 pm #

    I 2nd that. It was quite stomach turning.

  84. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 12:50 pm #

    Relax. These idiots would put a Girl Scout Camp in the wrong camp.

  85. asoka February 7, 2011 at 12:52 pm #

    they watch you. They want to make sure that you are qualified, that you are maintaining your eligibility, and that you are accountable for every penny that they give you.

    Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vermont, asked the Defense Department to pull together data on how military contractors have hoodwinked taxpayers in recent years.
    The report says the Pentagon spent $270 billion from 2007 to 2009 on 91 contractors involved in civil fraud cases that resulted in judgments of more than $1 million. Another $682 million went to 30 contractors convicted of criminal fraud in the same three-year period. Billions more went to firms that had been suspended or debarred by the Pentagon for misusing taxpayer dollars.
    “With the country running a $14 trillion national debt, my goal is to provide as much transparency as possible about what is happening with taxpayer money,” Sanders says. “The sad truth is that virtually all of the major defense contractors in this country for years have been engaged in systemic fraudulent behavior, while receiving hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayer money.”
    Pentagon contracting has been broken for decades.
    Former defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld said — on September 10, 2001 — that “according to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions.” The next day was 9/11, and counting Pentagon dollars was no longer a top priority.
    Plus, they’ve got to pay for all those newspaper and radio ads urging the government to spend more on the military somehow.

  86. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 12:53 pm #

    I thought you were disengaging for a few hours? Guess I was right about you being a liar. (How shocking!!!)

  87. wagelaborer February 7, 2011 at 12:54 pm #

    Most of that money never leaves the US, Mike.
    It is used to buy weapons from the US war machine, and other US commodities.
    It is a corporate welfare program that buys access to Egypt.
    There will be no questions asked!
    http://www.propublica.org/blog/item/f.a.q.-on-u.s.-aid-to-egypt-where-does-the-money-go-who-decides-how-spent

  88. slinkydog51 February 7, 2011 at 12:54 pm #

    How is global warming pure bullshit?

  89. Qshtik February 7, 2011 at 12:55 pm #

    [quote]This alone … glop.”[/quote]
    ==========
    Stel, you attempted a “blockquote” but it failed because you used the wrong kind of brackets and left out the word “block.” Suggestion: google HTML tags for instructions.

  90. Cash February 7, 2011 at 12:55 pm #

    I’m not a scientist but my own take on this debate about anthropogenic global warming is that it turned from a scientific issue of theories and dispassionate research into a left vs right tribal squabble.
    The two sides look across the divide and cannot abide the sight or smell of the other. The right looks at the left with disdain and sees in their mind’s eye insufferably sanctimonious, aging, sandal wearing, acid ruined hippies smelling of pot or pointy headed academics who have only a vague notion of the real world or their spoiled, tattooed offspring walking around with electronic devices protruding from every bodily orifice and appendage and who look as if they have only a glancing familiarity with the world of work. All of them eager to destroy the blessed US of A and piss all over Old Glory.
    The left looks over at the right with disgust and sees in their mind’s eye grossly obese, toothless, church going, Palin loving, Beck watching, NASCAR nitwits who could do nothing but benefit from a high school diploma or their masters the grossly wealthy owners and execs of oil companies that will not entertain any challenge to their god given right to pillage resources or the executives’ even more grossly wealthy masters, the banksters of Wall Street and Manhattan. All of them contemptuous towards the health of the planet and the well being of future generations.
    If political affiliation is the new ethnicity then adherence to absurd ideologies is a tribal identifier, the more idiotic the better.
    On the one side you have the absurdity that the science is “settled” and the evidence “irrefutable”. Well, fucking excuuuuse me, but since when is any matter in science ever closed to investigation and challenge?
    On the other you have equally closed minded dismissal of any notion that maybe churning out carbon could have some effect on climate.
    Good luck resolving this. As long as the two camps divide by political affiliation I don’t think it will ever happen.
    My own view is that their may be some basis to AGW. But from what I can see, climatology is still in the stone age and still can’t answer the most basic of climate change questions: when is the anticipated inception of the new round of glaciation? If scientists can’t answer that question then they don’t have a firm handle on how the earth’s climate works. After all glaciation and glacial recession are the big kahuna of climate change and we’ve been through one cycle after another over the past 2 million years. If they can answer that question, if there’s general agreement on that issue I will be comfortable they know what they are talking about.

  91. emaho February 7, 2011 at 12:57 pm #

    Excellent! Thanks.

  92. slinkydog51 February 7, 2011 at 12:58 pm #

    And just what did the “Earth’s Layers” have to do with the previous melts?

  93. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 12:59 pm #

    ““The sad truth is that virtually all of the major defense contractors in this country for years have been engaged in systemic fraudulent behavior, while receiving hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayer money.””
    Well if they have done it for years and Bernie has served the fine people of Vermont for years, than Bernie is one of many that is guilty of allowing this to have happened. Bernie should hand in his resignation today, with an apology, no less.

  94. Buck Stud February 7, 2011 at 1:02 pm #

    Asoka,
    What’s wrong with you, according to Vlad Einstein, Global Warming is now a religion, liberals playing God. So stop with the pretending, only God can play God and that’s the only science that matters!

  95. emaho February 7, 2011 at 1:05 pm #

    “You people”??? To whom do refer? (reefer?)
    Global warming is not a hoax…God is. Time you woke up.

  96. Qshtik February 7, 2011 at 1:07 pm #

    And why do the liberals and the conservatives take it for granted that the US should be the one to decide if Mubarek should stay or go?
    ===========
    Come on Wage, you’re a bright person … it’s the Golden Rule: the one with the Gold makes the Rules.

  97. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 1:09 pm #

    I vote that the skirmish continue. Bring forth honest facts and reason and may the better backed argument win. And yet that is not how this game is being played.
    The reason the not-yet-converted get a bit vocal on this subject is that we are talking about a cost of trillions and trillions of dollars that will be shuffled about via the carbon trading game. And we must rush headlong into the abyss on unsettled science. We are in our current fix because we have “rushed” into quite a few too many “must have” programs. And yet there are those who insist we speed things up on this new boondoggle? And they wish to be taken seriously? Please.

  98. edpell February 7, 2011 at 1:11 pm #

    I can not believe people still use US news (Corporate Nazi Network, Fascist Only eXperimnet). If you want middle east news try Al Jazeera in English http://english.aljazeera.net/ also Muslim Brotherhood in English http://www.ikhwanweb.com/
    Even when peak oil is long gone there will still be the internet based on optical fiber (yes the wireless will be gone it takes too much energy).

  99. JulettaofOhio February 7, 2011 at 1:16 pm #

    Mr. Kuntsler: I look forward to reading your column every Monday. Only thing that makes Monday bearable, but you’ve got to slow down on the party baiting. Jim DeMint will disappoint you by not becoming embroiled in some tawdry scandal. The lust for gleeful joy in the downfall of someone else you hate (even though I assume it’s not personal….You just hate the Republican party) ensures some REALLY bad karma. Your best chance of juicy gossip lies with the party of depravity…the Democrats. Any of the Kennedys or Barney Frank offers more choice to the moral hypocrit than most of the right who at least offer lip service to the narrow path. I think that’s why there’s so much jubilation when a Republican strays. It’s simply expected from the Democrats, hence no surprise.
    Your genius in wordcraft keeps me coming back to your site; your bitterness and partisanship may make me back away. I’ve bought all of your books, and often more than one copy to give as gifts. I don’t know what’s real or what isn’t in global warming. I do know it’s THE new religion and you’re likely to be stoned if you don’t agree. I also know that if our personal living costs go up another $200.00, we will be bankrupt. Cap and Trade should assure that outcome. What shreds of our Constitution remain may finally kill the health care bill. Sucks for Obama that he wants power more than anything else, and the Constitution prevents that particular grab. Don’t know how much longer it can hold out. Obama is relentless in all the wrong ways, and there’s already quite a push to demonize the Founders, the document and the elderly. (Has anyone else noticed that???) Good luck to Desert Dog and sorry for all the insults, although you knew when you wrote that the left would shit fan you. You must be a Vet. No other group has that much courage. Go South Carolina!!!

  100. Lynn Shwadchuck February 7, 2011 at 1:16 pm #

    Yes, I read about the speculation in food futures. It’s just craziness. I know I’m just being a liberal, to eat in a way that makes me feel less greedy and elite. I know the idea of fair share is just that, an idea. I just don’t know what more I can do but try to spread the word so more people eat foods that don’t take so many resources to produce. Grain prices are volatile because much of it is fed to livestock to produce meat. We do what we can to be able to live with ourselves…

  101. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 1:16 pm #

    ALJAZEERA AIN’T HALF BAD. MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD? SURELY YOU JEST

  102. MarlinFive54 February 7, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

    Right indeed, Jim! Dow is up another 80 so far today, and oil is headed south. Sky’s-the-limit and it won’t be long before the all time high of over 14,000 is breached. Then happy days will truly be here again!

  103. emaho February 7, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

    Is there anyone here who can claim that the USA doesn’t have the right to say which or what national leader should remain in power? I mean, what happened to the Monroe Doctrine, fer gawd’s sake? The Super Bowl prooved it — We are the best. We are the champions. We are the rulers of the world!!!
    Mubarak must go. I said so, by gawd!

  104. BICO February 7, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

    PoC, apology accepted.

  105. Bob Wise February 7, 2011 at 1:23 pm #

    Amen to “the stock market only goes up”. The dollar value of my portfolio has climbed about 25% as the value of the dollar dropped about 25%. No change, but the numbers are wonderful!

  106. wagelaborer February 7, 2011 at 1:27 pm #

    I first became a vegetarian when I read “Diet For a Small Planet”, for the good of the other people on the planet.
    And then I backslid, but only at potlucks and the cafeteria at work.
    But I haven’t eaten another animal since I read “Skinny Bitch”, because the animal abuse apparently bothers me more.
    (Tip of the hat to Orionir)

  107. asoka February 7, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    NotOEO said:

    Well if they have done it for years and Bernie has served the fine people of Vermont for years, than Bernie is one of many that is guilty of allowing this to have happened. Bernie should hand in his resignation today, with an apology, no less.

    Perhaps you need to brush up on separation of powers?
    Bernie is doing exactly what a representative should do (and has been since day one).
    In the fine state of Vermont an arrest warrant was issued for George W. Bush … another place Bush can’t visit without risk of being arrested for war crimes.

  108. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    You know its funny Bob. If one had left all of their invested IRA money right where it was before the crash they’d be about even. But all those dollars they rip out of your check for S.S. are gone with the wind. Yet no one seems to give a fiddler’s fuck.

  109. lbendet February 7, 2011 at 1:31 pm #

    JHK as a big fan of the old horror movie genre, just love the reference to the Mummy. There isn’t a Universal film from the 30’s and 40’s that I don’t love.–good blog today.
    (In reading some of your comments I just had such a great laugh.Thanks to you, Desert Dawg, I’m just lovin’ the image of Code Pink in bed with Hamas. Do they take off their shocking pink wigs when they have the urge to merge? Do tell how that works, DD.)
    ————
    Poor Egypt, Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
    This story just keeps spinning, round and round, who knows how it’s going to come out in the wash.
    Enter the new VP…to take over for us in Egypt Our friend Suleiman according to Aljazeera is our CIA man in Cairo.
    He has a background in torture and in fact has acted in our behalf in the rendition [involved kidnapping suspected terrorists and transferring them to a third country for trial. In The Dark Side, Jane Mayer describes how the rendition program began:
    “Each rendition was authorised at the very top levels of both governments [the US and Egypt] … The long-serving chief of the Egyptian central intelligence agency, Omar Suleiman, negotiated directly with top [CIA] officials. [Former US Ambassador to Egypt Edward] Walker described the Egyptian counterpart, Suleiman, as ‘very bright, very realistic’, adding that he was cognisant that there was a downside to ‘some of the negative things that the Egyptians engaged in, of torture and so on. But he was not squeamish, by the way’. (p. 113).
    “Technically, US law required the CIA to seek ‘assurances’ from Egypt that rendered suspects wouldn’t face torture. But under Suleiman’s reign at the EGIS, such assurances were considered close to worthless. As Michael Scheuer, a former CIA officer [head of the al-Qaeda desk], who helped set up the practise of rendition, later testified, even if such ‘assurances’ were written in indelible ink, ‘they weren’t worth a bucket of warm spit’.”]
    I feel so much better now that Egypt is in the right hands.
    That and Kissinger and Co’s., realpolitik: you can expect nothing good for the democracy movement. Way too important for the peace process you know to allow for the expression of the people. You know you need a strongman to run the show for the transnationals. The game plan according to a recent article I read by Sy Hersh is to “Christianize the middle east.” That’s right folks, Islam will be marketed as old world and Christianity will be marketed as the way to a prosperous global trade route where in reality, rampant privatization will occur to benefit the top 2% of the world.

  110. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

    “In the fine state of Vermont an arrest warrant was issued for George W. Bush…”
    Yeah now, thats not a complete waste of time. I’m proud our legislators spend their time on such productive endeavors. In the meant time Bernie’s “fine state of Vermont” was rated 32nd for a state in which to do business.
    Thanks Bernie.

  111. ozone February 7, 2011 at 1:37 pm #

    I have only one small [and not impolite] caution for you:
    Enjoy your certitude while you may. It’s my feeling that most things will turn out quite differently than you [or I, for that matter] currently perceive. (Especially in the area of causes and effects.)
    Regards-
    only I

  112. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 1:38 pm #

    “It’s my feeling that most things will turn out quite differently than you [or I, for that matter] currently perceive. ”
    Sounds like you are quite certain of this. Enjoy your certitude while you may.

  113. ozone February 7, 2011 at 1:46 pm #

    Someone sharted?

  114. Qshtik February 7, 2011 at 1:47 pm #

    canadian geese pooping on our golf courses.
    ==============
    I believe the new/correct term for these critters is Canada Geese.

  115. asoka February 7, 2011 at 1:48 pm #

    Legislators must do what the citizens they represent want, and the voters wanted the police to be instructed to arrest the law breakers.
    Isn’t that what you said should be done?
    http://reut.rs/eTvbfO

  116. JonathanSS February 7, 2011 at 1:50 pm #

    RE: “The Golden Rule”
    Except, we don’t have enough Au anymore. To the amount of negative $14T. What Jim call “US impotence” to events in Egypt, I refer to as healthy restraint.
    Do you want us to continue to be the world’s policeman?

  117. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 1:57 pm #

    “Legislators must do what the citizens they represent want…”
    Really? Well 60% of people want ObamaCare repealed. Guess Bernie should get biddy wif dat.

  118. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 1:59 pm #

    “I believe the new/correct term for these critters is Canada Geese.”
    And if there is a God in heaven he will allow a Canada goose to find your head as it’s target.

  119. stlhdr February 7, 2011 at 2:03 pm #

    “Well 60% of people want Oba blah blah blah…”
    Pull that figure right out yer ass, didn’t ya?

  120. wagelaborer February 7, 2011 at 2:09 pm #

    Last week, or the week before, I posted a link to a synopsis of “The Devil’s Game”, by Robert (?) Dreyfuss, detailing how the US has supported Muslim fanatics from the Muslim Brotherhood in the 50s, to the Afghanistan muhajadeen in the 80s, to the Muslims in Kosovo in the 90s.
    And drugs have been used by the CIA to raise money since before they were the CIA.
    Some say that drug money is the only thing keeping the banks afloat.
    So there are a lot of reasons why the US supports the cutthroat muslims in Yugoslavia. And elsewhere.
    At the same time, whipping up the yahoos at home into frenetic anti-muslim sentiment.
    Embarrassing.

  121. jackieblue2u February 7, 2011 at 2:12 pm #

    I think it would be Cool to be first ! You are easily amused like me, it’s ok to be first.
    I will be someday, just have to remember to try !
    Gas went up to 3.45 a gallon last week here on the West Coast Ca.
    I only see it going up more and more. And people are Stressed, and ready to go off for any reason. the feeling in the air on the road is Tense. I swear some people ARE out to kill ya, cuz they are so miserable. Or Entitled. or both.
    I am interested in driving, it’s a Hot Topic for me. If I was the one giving out licenses, the rules would be much stricter.
    Things will be changing. It will be harder on some than others. I’ve always had alternatives to a car. And moved to a location where it is possible to get around without a car.
    I am going to phase out driving even more now. And really plan even better when I go out to shop etc.
    Around here if you leave your bike locked up with less than a very very good lock, it will be gone when you come out. Also they will take any thing they can get, tires, seats, etc. It’s big business, it’s a college town. Steal bikes, sell Meth & Gangs. It’s Organized. A big problem here here Santa Cruz.
    I live a few miles down the road.

  122. wagelaborer February 7, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    Wait until it all shakes out.
    It’s not impotence, or restraint.
    It’s working behind the scenes to put in a new, more acceptable dictator without coming right out and disavowing the bullshit about US support for democracy that Obama handed the Egyptians last year.
    Apparently, they think that Egyptians have longer memories that Americans. We yum up the bullshit without ever noticing that last week it was a different flavor.

  123. orionoir February 7, 2011 at 2:15 pm #

    jhk writes

    As the week begins here, with all the smoke and confetti cleared from Texas Stadium, there is one sole dominating truth that really matters: the stock market only goes up.

    ——-
    i disagree. the stock market is going up for good reason, one of which is that mubarak’s egypt is *not* a rerun of the shah’s iran.
    (i’m just parroting this week’s barron’s.)
    short of a nuclear bomb going off, the only mid-east event that the market would care about is a blockade and/or mining of the strait of hormuz. tehran would attempt such lunacy if its existence was threatened; otherwise, such an action is completely counter to its interests.
    meanwhile, our firm continues an aggressive posture toward equities. as always, watch the fire exits: when the big boys start hanging out beneath the red exit signs, there’s usually a reason.
    ——-
    fearless prediction: united states sovereign debt will lose its “triple a” rating before the summer is done.

  124. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 2:23 pm #

    “”Well 60% of people want Oba blah blah blah…”
    Pull that figure right out yer ass, didn’t ya?”
    Not really. Its from Rasmussen. The only thing I pulled out of my ass lately was your head. WTF were you trying to do up there anyway?

  125. stlhdr February 7, 2011 at 2:26 pm #

    Linky, fuckface?

  126. stlhdr February 7, 2011 at 2:27 pm #

    Link, Oreo? You don’t expect me to take your word, that aint worth shit.

  127. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 2:30 pm #

    ‘Linky, fuckface?”
    Google, LAZY fuckface. And speaking of faces, please wash yours. I’m seeing some of my Super Bowl snack residue encrusted on your eyebrows.

  128. teejay February 7, 2011 at 2:30 pm #

    Noel says…”trying to get back to basics, also allow me to correct spelling.. seceed is what I meant.. nothing worse than misspelling when trying to be a provocateur.”
    Laughing…hey bud, care to try again? It’s ‘secede’. Third time is the charm, my good man.
    Now, about this global warming chatter…I’m no scientist either, but it seems to me that the camp that dismisses it as not possibly being a man made phenomenon generally aligns with the theory that the Earth, atmosphere, and all its beautiful systems are just “too big” for “us” to have a measurable impact or influence over.
    I can imagine the first white men laying eyes upon the Mississippi river, pre Lewis & Clark, thinking, “wow, some big ass body of water there, eh, compadre?”…”yeah, dude, ain’t no WAY we could ever mess that up…just too big!”. Fast forward a few dozen decades…care to go for a dip in the big muddy? Hope ya got a hazmat swimsuit. PCB’s, mercury and other metals, dioxins, god know’s what…quite a soup a ‘brewing there nowadays. Oh, and a several thousand square mile “dead zone” at the mouth, in the Gulf, just for good measure.
    But then, this is probably just a natural, “normal” cycle the river goes through from time to time…the fish will come back.
    Point, it’s a suckers bet to underestimate the capacity of man’s hand to effect ANY system on Earth, or the very planet itself. Look around, y’all,… the “answers” and “evidence” are there. Just ditch the political agenda and the veil is removed.

  129. stlhdr February 7, 2011 at 2:31 pm #

    Lazy is when you cite a source and refuse to provide it. Aren’t doing too well in High School with that attitude, are you?

  130. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 2:31 pm #

    “Link, Oreo? You don’t expect me to take your word, that aint worth shit.”
    My, my aren’t we bossy!

  131. stlhdr February 7, 2011 at 2:33 pm #

    I’m done with you for another week, Oreo.

  132. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 2:36 pm #

    “I’m done with you for another week, Oreo.”
    Oh, say it ain’t so. I’m crushed. What will I do?
    (Guess you checked my source and are too humiliated to continue here. Whatever…

  133. Qshtik February 7, 2011 at 2:37 pm #

    Cash,
    You are a very astute observer of the scene and do an exceptional job of describing it.

  134. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 2:54 pm #

    TEEJAY,
    The issue at hand is carbon dioxide. The despoiling of rivers by man made chemicals is a separate issue. Carbon dioxide is a by-product of every breath you take. Plant life thrives on it.

  135. Neil Kearns February 7, 2011 at 3:07 pm #

    ccm989 wrote: Global climate change will continue because it benefits Big Corporations that destroy the earth.
    Interesting point. I’ve seen the climate shift up close and personal, it’s hard not to if you are consistantly acquainted with somewhere special. In my case, the forested mountains and creeks that I played in as a child and young adult are now decimated and shifting to a sage and savannah, while the creeks only flow now in great torrents during the (new and improved) summer monsoon season.
    But the point is a good one- Big ag corporations hold us as ever more dependant on artificial stimulation for yields to maintain some productivity. Big water corporations, many in stealth mode at present stand poised to make a killing in wealth and power. Different finance companies stand ready to take ownership of fertile soils either currently open, or held in reserve by useless office parks-which come out just as fast as they come in.
    As the reserves of the common man go down, the level of desperation and dependance on these quick corporate derived fixes for ag go up. People can’t see clear when they are desperate, but they have the pusher man on speed dial.

  136. Qshtik February 7, 2011 at 3:09 pm #

    Do you want us to continue to be the world’s policeman?
    ==========
    No, of course not. If I didn’t know it was so impossibly unrealistic I’d go for isolationism.
    Perhaps you didn’t notice my golden rule remark was sarcasm. Maybe I should have written “Those who can create money out of thin air make the rules.”

  137. asoka February 7, 2011 at 3:17 pm #

    NotOEO said: “Its from Rasmussen.”
    ======
    The Rasmussen poll that came out 4 hours ago says 58% favor repeal.

    58% of Likely U.S. Voters at least somewhat favor repeal of the health care law, with 44% who Strongly Favor it. Thirty-seven percent (37%) are opposed to repeal, including 26% who Strongly Oppose.

    What Rasmussen does not tell you is what percentage are in favor of repeal because they wanted the public option, not a give-away to the health insurance industry.
    Many in favor of repeal do so because they want MORE GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT, just like the Veterans Administration. We want a socialist health care plan like VA, with government-controlled hospitals, government-paid doctors, etc.
    Your citing 60% is in error in two ways, notOEO.

  138. Alexandra February 7, 2011 at 3:26 pm #

    @ Desert Dawg…
    Oh deary, deary me… ??
    The problem with unenlightened, uninformed rhetoric is – you need to read MORE and do the history…
    Yes, there has always been climate change – the reason are highly complex – some of which can be due to solar cycles, its level or not of fusion activity, whether we’re moving through space debris as a universe as we expand across the galaxy, and also due to what one could term major EELEs….
    Comet strikes cause nuclear winters, (ice ages) as does massive volcanic activity if intense and prolonged enough… how easily we forgot what happened last year in Iceland, nice twist with the previous banking crash….triple whammy anyone?
    All of these recorded historic events too have caused species die-off – go ask a few dinosaurs what they saw that night – streaking through the sky? As it hit just of South America…
    But here’s a another key fact for you, at no point in Gaia’s history has she ever had to support 7bn u’man beans hell-bent on the ‘American-dream’ high-calorie-energy-intensity lifestyle… backed by industrial scale food production/fishing… farming!!
    To imagine this doesn’t have some kinda depleting affect on your wee globe you trot around on – would suggest a big gap in the quality of your access to informed education…

  139. teejay February 7, 2011 at 3:29 pm #

    No doubt, notOEO…perhaps the analogy was not perfect, but the central point remains.
    I suspect that somewhere along the timeline of the Mississippi (luv typing that word!) River, from say 1850-1950, there was likely a similar “debate” regarding the dumping of chemicals into the waterway. The ag folks (solidly backed by the likes of ADM, Monsanto, et. al) probably said “our activities have NO adverse material effect on the condition of the river!”, as did the refinery folks, etc…The other side was probably just as vociferous in their claims of the contrary. I probably would have been on the side of ag/industry, in that my “logical brain” would assume that the river is just too damn big to “make a dent” in, in terms of pollution. I’d have been wrong, of course. Now we see the result and it appears as ridiculous that there ever was even a debate at all. Just think if there was some type of “cap and trade” mechanism put in place for the Mississippi back in the year 1900…it might be still swimmable and fishable…would that have been worth it?
    Now, my logical brain tells me…”whoaaa, we might just be creating some ecosystemic damage here in our atmosphere”. Well, should we conduct biz as usual, and just wait around for that ‘oooops, wrong again’ moment?
    I dunno…sort of a simplistic viewpoint, I concede. But then cause and effect sometimes is a simplistic equation.

  140. Qshtik February 7, 2011 at 3:31 pm #

    our firm continues an aggressive posture toward equities.
    ==========
    What firm would that be? It sounds like Abby Joseph Cohen lingo (Goldman Sachs).

  141. BICO February 7, 2011 at 3:38 pm #

    Whoa, Alexandra! Thanks for the reminder.
    I totally forgot about the volcanic eruption in Iceland & its effects on Europe. How quickly we forget.

  142. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 3:39 pm #

    “Your citing 60% is in error in two ways, notOEO. ”
    Wrong on both counts. My citing of 60% was from memory. I was not aware of a new poll released today, which is a mere 2% lower than I remembered reading a while back. The following range is cited:
    “These numbers mark little change from a week ago and are consistent with findings since March of last year when Democrats passed the law. Support for repeal has ranged from 50% to 63% in weekly tracking since then.
    Here are the questions for poll.
    National Survey of 1,000 Likely Voters
    Conducted February 4-5, 2011
    By Rasmussen Reports
    1* Will the health care plan passed by Congress and signed into law by President Obama be good for the country or bad for the country?
    2* A proposal has been made to repeal the health care bill and stop it from going into effect. Do you strongly favor, somewhat favor, somewhat oppose or strongly oppose a proposal to repeal the health care bill?
    3* Is the health care reform legislation passed by Congress and signed into law by President Obama likely to increase the deficit, reduce the deficit or have no impact on the deficit?
    4* Under the new health care reform plan, will the quality of health care get better, worse, or stay about the same?
    5* Under the new health care reform plan, will the cost of health care go up, go down, or stay about the same?
    NOTE: Margin of Sampling Error, +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence
    That is all, apologist for all things Obama. Over and out.

  143. asoka February 7, 2011 at 3:57 pm #

    notOEO said: “That is all, apologist for all things Obama. Over and out.”
    LOL!
    [sarcasm on]
    Yeah, have you noticed how I apologize for Obama’s wars?
    [sarcasm off]
    I have called for Obama to be impeached and tried for war crimes because he has continued with Bush’s Secretary of Defense, has increased Bush’s defense budget, has used drone bombers to kill civilians in countries we are not even at war with, which is a violation of their national sovereignty and a crime according to the UN Charter the USA is signatory to, etc.
    Does that sound like I am an apologist for all things Obama?
    I do agree with some of Obama’s domestic policies and, of course, same as Bush and Palin, I like Obama as a person.

  144. poorgrouch February 7, 2011 at 3:57 pm #

    Not a dumb question at all. A great question. I fear that it again demonstrates that most of our leaders are only concerned with their own agenda.
    Please stay here and continue to add to the dialogue. It’s becoming so hostile- name calling and profanity-laced that I am tempted to stop reading it and just tune in for Jim’s posts.

  145. bearfoot33 February 7, 2011 at 4:00 pm #

    notoes i notice whenever you start commenting the level of civility drops drastically, you need to “shape up”, sh*thead!

  146. asoka February 7, 2011 at 4:01 pm #

    “Support for repeal has ranged from 50% to 63% in weekly tracking since then. ”
    ====
    The Affordable Care Act is the law of the land. Congress just enacted it. Courts rulings have been divided. It will not be repealed. It may be improved… hopefully with a public option.

  147. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 4:06 pm #

    “”shape up”, sh*thead!”
    Hmmmm. Civility? I wonder what is meant by the usage of “sh*thead”? Why, my lord. I think I figured it out. How dare you bearfoot. Not very civil at all!!!!! (And stupid, as well.)

  148. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 4:11 pm #

    “The Affordable Care Act is the law of the land. ”
    Actually it isn’t. It was found to be unconstitutional in its entirety. Just because Obama’s justice has for now decided to ignore the ruling does not make it go away. And at the LEAST whoever named this turkey “The Affordable Care Act” should be sued for false advertising. There is absolutely NOTHING affordable about this monstrosity.

  149. Ed February 7, 2011 at 4:17 pm #

    Reading history is a great way to learn about what has already happened. Doing so would reveal a couple of facts:
    Lincoln was known as the great emancipator. When the war broke out, he set out to emancipate the slaves by suspending habeas corpus for non-slaves in the North. He had to, paraphrasing an officer in Viet Nam, ‘destroy the constitution in order to save it.’
    This theory seems to have survived Lincoln’s death and be in favor with the current administration and other supporters of the Patriot Act.
    As far as the fish returning to the Mississippi river, they HAVE returned…Asian Carp…a navigation hazard and they probably would glow in the dark. THEIR INTRODUCTION to our country is an example of ‘man-made pollution of our natural environment’.

  150. Shakazulu February 7, 2011 at 4:27 pm #

    Sea, I always liked both Ginger and Mary Ann. Even as a prepubescent. But I always identified with the professor. I saw Mary as going with him, and Ginger the airhead going with goofy Gilligan. That left Mr. Howell with his Mrs. and the Skipper out in the cold. Maybe Mrs. Howell snuck around once in a while. Would Thurston have even cared?
    Egypt’s claim to fame is 3000 year old monuments to the futility of man and his kingdoms. Who cares, other than the starving masses there how this turns out? Well, and the military contractors making billions off the Middle East power struggle? Look for gas to go over $4 a gallon before years end. And food prices to skyrocket. Remember the pyramids tell us the destiny of all human kingdoms.

  151. jackieblue2u February 7, 2011 at 4:39 pm #

    I am watching this now.
    One of the kids says “I can sum it up in 3 words”
    “Evolution is a lie”. that’s 4 words.
    I am going to watch the rest now.

  152. asia February 7, 2011 at 4:46 pm #

    On Radio last nite I heard a taped[?] bush speach.
    he railed on against:
    NATIONALISM [!]
    PROTECTIONISM
    ISOLATIONISM
    It was stunning. He warned us sheeple about
    ‘the 3 isms’.
    The commentator said GW wont be going to Switzerland lest he get arrested.hahahahahahahhah

  153. progressorconserve February 7, 2011 at 4:51 pm #

    Cash –
    I don’t mind telling you that you come up with some GOOD stuff every once in a while:
    “If political affiliation is the new ethnicity then adherence to absurd ideologies is a tribal identifier, the more idiotic the better.”
    -Cash-
    That’s almost laugh out loud funny – but, man, is that really how we LOOK from up there in Canada?
    -jeeze, that’s pretty bad.
    =================
    Honestly, that’s why I’ve been looking for a good strong voice to stay with CFN and speak up for the right wing side of things.
    ‘Cause, really – if all I wanted was agreement and I was a lefty I’d go to HuffPost or equivalent.
    If all I wanted was agreement and I was a righty, I’d go to FOX News or equivalent.
    I really am looking for Truth – and, of course, some really good arguments.
    Now if we can mostly manage to discourage the insults and invective – we may actually get somewhere.
    If we can get JHK to keep the site up and running.
    PoC

  154. jackieblue2u February 7, 2011 at 4:59 pm #

    Ok I watched it but not gonna touch the subject.

  155. Gus44 February 7, 2011 at 5:00 pm #

    Best comment I’ve yet read on AGW. I’m too often guilty of being on the hippie side. I have to constantly remind myself I’m not a climatologist.

  156. noel bodie February 7, 2011 at 5:00 pm #

    Just came in from shoveling snow thinking “did you get it right on the secede thing” thanks teejay … I’m the one in the corner standing under the pointy hat….

  157. progressorconserve February 7, 2011 at 5:02 pm #

    The Affordable Healthcare Act
    I’m gonna back you up on this one, notOEO. That healthcare bill is a MESS – from where I sit. Too much of it was written by corporations and rammed through without consideration by left, right, or center.
    And I don’t see how it can possibly be declared constitutional by the SCOTUS.
    Asoka – you don’t necessarily have to write back and defend the thing. We’re at the point right now in American politics where facts, websites, and opinions aren’t going to matter on healthcare
    – Until SCOTUS makes a determination – IMHO – nothing is going to move legislatively.

  158. MarlinFive54 February 7, 2011 at 5:03 pm #

    My wife is watching Oprah and Donald Trumpf (and his family) are the guests. Its heartwarming and educational at the same time. What a wonderful family! I’ve learned it’s really a lot of fun being a Trumpf, and they are all really close!

  159. MarlinFive54 February 7, 2011 at 5:07 pm #

    Alexandra;
    Who the F___ is Gaiea???

  160. asoka February 7, 2011 at 5:07 pm #

    NotOEO said: “It was found to be unconstitutional in its entirety.”
    =========
    What jurisdiction found the Affordable Care Act to be “unconstitutional”? A district court? Which district or districts found it “unconstitutional”?
    If conflicting rulings continue, the issue may go to the SUPREME COURT. And until the SUPREME COURT makes a ruling, the Affordable Care Act is the law of the land.
    Maybe you need to brush up on the law, too. You don’t seem to know what it means when the national Congress enacts a law. It means it is the law of the land.

  161. myrtlemay February 7, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    I may be wrong on this Asoka, but I think it was last week when a Supreme Court judge in Florida struck down the health care law. The grounds, I believe, were that it was unconstitutional to “force” amerikans to purchase health care insurance if they don’t want it. Again, I’m not a lawyer, I only watch them on t.v.

  162. Neil Kearns February 7, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    >Who the F___ is Gaiea???
    Just some whore. She’ll put out for anyone, and if you don’t pay her back she has you fucked up by her pimp’s posse who ride on four horses.

  163. anotherplayaguy February 7, 2011 at 5:15 pm #

    “Our bread and circus hijinks (or, should I say, Nacho and Fuhball), make the late Romans’ antics look like a simple summer evening at the frog pond.” Much as I despise football and the culture that goes with it, this is patently wrong. We still have quite a lot to learn about depravity from the Romans. Nothing quite like raping a six year old child so she could be killed (as killing virgins was illegal). Or raping wives in front of their husbands, husbands in front of their wives. You get the picture. We’re not there quite yet, not for televising anyway.
    As to the half time show: I am shocked. Shocked. Shocked that anyone here would even be watching it. Or the fame commercials. How clever is that, getting people to rate the commercials so they have to watch them. Genius.

  164. lbendet February 7, 2011 at 5:19 pm #

    Who said “Money can’t buy me Love”? It does when it comes to buying off the Egyptians for peace. That’s why we have to keep pumping that money into the Egyptian military. The 1.3 Billion is sacrosanct. It also effects the industries herer as well. Guess we’re stuck…

  165. progressorconserve February 7, 2011 at 5:21 pm #

    Health care is like any other law passed in the past 10 years or more.
    The good stuff – like mandatory coverage for dependents until age 27 – is implemented immediately.
    The complicated stuff that costs money will phase in – and most of the political players are just waiting on SCOTUS – before they decide how and whether to wrangle over FUNDING implementation.
    Now the Repubs in the House did vote to rescend the Healthcare law – but I believe right now they are just pandering to their base. They knew that whatever they did would be blocked by the Senate and/or vetoed by Obama.
    When SCOTUS rules – then all of them House and Senate – will start collecting *contributions* from various health corporations to keep/change various parts of the Law – if it survives SC challenge.
    Let’s wait and see, shall we. This is one thing that will never be solved by talking about it – prematurely – even on CFN. hah!
    PoC

  166. asoka February 7, 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    Now let’s consider the heavy hand of government, against which the Republican version of what the founding fathers meant to say, protects us.
    Maybe you, the one bleeding, seizing, or dying — are not compelled to ‘buy’ health insurance — because nobody’s the boss of you. Maybe you get treated for your calamity, and simply don’t pay the bill. But then I, and everyone else, are compelled to ‘buy’ what you did not. We pay more taxes to support the public provision of care. We pay higher insurance premiums to cover higher hospital charges to account for the fact that a certain percentage of customers get care they don’t pay for. If health care is a commodity, then by not requiring some to buy it, we are — ipso facto — requiring others to buy it for them. Where’s the Constitutional protection against that?
    There is none — and can be none — because health care is not a commodity. It is an event, a crisis, an occurrence. And paying for it simply … happens. There isn’t much in the free market system that looks like this. There isn’t any particular reason why the founding fathers would have anticipated this issue.
    The problem with debating how what the Constitution says about commodities applies to healthcare is that healthcare is not a commodity. It is, all too often, as unintended and unplanned as it is unavoidable. Health care is not a commodity, and the Constitution does not seem to have said anything in particular about whether or not to send out an ambulance to deal with someone who can’t pay for it, and then impose the bill on those who can.
    My common sense tells me that health care is, and should be, a case apart. And therefore before we imagine different meanings in the words of those who never imagined health insurance, perhaps we should consider what would be the sensible way to handle a ‘purchase’ the purchaser is apt to be in no condition to refuse.
    Not because of anything the Constitution or Obama Administration did or didn’t say. But simply because the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune may fall on any of us at any time — and when they do, somebody will be left to pay the bill.
    — Dr. David L. Katz

  167. asoka February 7, 2011 at 5:30 pm #

    PorC said: “Let’s wait and see, shall we.”
    =========
    Do you think those who are receiving federal health care, while railing against the “Affordable Care Act”, and certain congressional representatives come to mind, should at least give up their government health care? Do you think they are hypocrites for not renouncing their own government health care plan?

  168. progressorconserve February 7, 2011 at 5:38 pm #

    Unless I overlooked something, US healthcare has nothing to do with JHK’s opus for the week.
    The connection of healthcare to peak oil is really weak, IMO.
    This is (hopefully) my last post on healthcare for the week.

  169. San Jose Mom 51 February 7, 2011 at 5:40 pm #

    I really don’t know about climate change. I do know that lots of watersheds are being compromised by our high-consumption lifestyles.
    But when I’m out on a boat in the Pacific for a couple of days and see nothing for days….or if you drive across Nevada on Highway 80 and see practically nothing for 500 miles, it makes me wonder what the truth is. Maybe I just have a westerner’s perspective?
    SJmom

  170. JonathanSS February 7, 2011 at 6:01 pm #

    If health care is a commodity, then by not requiring some to buy it, we are — ipso facto — requiring others to buy it for them. Where’s the Constitutional protection against that?

    Maybe I don’t get it, but why haven’t I heard people complain about states that require auto insurance? But, “Disease Care” insurance can be just as essential to someone’s fiscal health as having auto insurance.
    And that’s how I link to “Peak Oil”; auto/health/life & fiscal responsibility.

  171. Pangolin February 7, 2011 at 6:07 pm #

    Anybody who thinks there isn’t Climate Change should go here and look at the graph on the front page.
    http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
    That cute little graph means a shitton of arctic sea ice has wandered off and cannot be found which means in turn that all normal weather predictions are null and void.
    Massive heat waves followed by torrential floods seems to be a new and popular “feature” of your planet. Enjoy.
    Regardin Kunstler’s OP; nobody mentioned the “Export Land Model” which says that growing populations at home want to use resources previously allocated for export. Colonialism is a zero sum game; resources allocated to keeping the US wealthy must be taken from somebody else. They will object.

  172. Vlad Krandz February 7, 2011 at 6:11 pm #

    There you go again – putting people down. The Global Warming Thesis is unproven. People who don’t buy it aren’t scum or “deniers”. But people who call them that are.

  173. Pangolin February 7, 2011 at 6:12 pm #

    It’s weird how the ‘baggers don’t stand around in circles burning their Medicare, VA or Federal Employee Health Benefit’s cards. Isn’t that taxpayer money taken from somebody else by force?
    Nobody gets to choose to pay Medicare payroll taxes they government forces your employer to deduct that money and forward it to them.
    So maybe if yer bitching about hands in other people’s pockets you might want to check where your hands are.

  174. Pangolin February 7, 2011 at 6:18 pm #

    You’re denier scum. Science is perfectly ok with you until your tribal leader decided you shouldn’t believe this one little bit.
    Do you bring bags of roots and leaves to the doctors office also? Do you refuse to eat packaged foods? You’re using a computer. How do you think computers work; demons?

  175. BeantownBill February 7, 2011 at 6:18 pm #

    Oa flying across the country and seeing much non- or low-populated areas below.

  176. Vlad Krandz February 7, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    It’s not an exact science like astro-physics or someting. But that doesn’t mean nothing is known. We seem to be entering into a period of Global Cooling – such cycles are usually associated with a lack of sunspots indicating a certain quiescience of the Sun. We have just seen such a period in the last couple of years. Beyond that, we are due for a big Ice Age – we’ve already had our ten thousand year inter-glacial hiatus. Ice Ages are then norm not the exception. We’ve been spoiled rotten. Metro Sexuals like Buck are going to get caught in a block of ice with a sneer frozen on their faces for a hundred thousand years. Our descendants will dig them out and be appalled that such Neanderthal knuckle walkers ever sashayed on Earth.

  177. teejay February 7, 2011 at 6:24 pm #

    Man, this is some good sh*t! I gotta say, I stumbled onto this Kunstler fella’s column just today, and little did I know I’d get sucked in to the vortex of it AND the resulting comment thread. Yeah, there’s a little bit of personal pissing contest going on here and there, but overall a healthy discussion, with opinion that is unencumbered by “sponsors”, network executives, and other constraints of mainstream. If only the vast majority of our populace was so engaged.
    The halftime show…well, I was watching with a bunch of other baby boomers, and we ALL were sorta uncomfortable in an embarrassed sort of way. Lame doesn’t even describe it. We all wondered what people (assuming they were even watching) around the globe must think of us…
    Good stuff y’all. I’m gonna bookmark and come back often. I think I’ll read one or two of this Kunstler guy’s books. Any suggestions as to which are most recommended?

  178. xport February 7, 2011 at 6:26 pm #






    Remember the Great Reagan Revolution?
    the long road down the tubes that got us where we are now. Living in shit city.
    Thanks.

  179. Vlad Krandz February 7, 2011 at 6:38 pm #

    Unrealistic? That’s a straw man for the most part; a slander by the Globalists against Nationalists – as if you can’t trade with other Countries if you have strong borders, customs etc; as if LOTS of trade wasn’t happening before Globalist Ideology came to the fore.
    There is a middle ground: countries that can should make all their essential goods and grow and raise their essential food. Then they can trade for luxuries. If there’s something we need, then we have to trade. So be it. It used to work fine and might again. Words like “inconvenient” or “unrealistic” should always bring to mind the questions “To who?” or “Who loses if things go back to the way they were”? If on the other hand you’re merely making a personal prediction that things have gone too far to change – that’s another story; one that I tend to agree with. It’s all going to have to crash before we can return to sanity. We’re in the rapids approaching the falls – too late to back out now.

  180. lbendet February 7, 2011 at 6:54 pm #

    Hey Vlad—I agree with you on this one! Actually your whole post is good on this.
    Of course we always did international trade–but this free trade will only lower this ship. Oh and we compete with countries who have government subsidies and central planning.

  181. ozone February 7, 2011 at 7:03 pm #

    “But the point is a good one- Big ag corporations hold us as ever more dependant on artificial stimulation for yields to maintain some productivity. Big water corporations, many in stealth mode at present stand poised to make a killing in wealth and power.” Neil Kearns
    ================================
    Water, eh?
    As the old West saying goes: Whiskey’s for sippin'; water’s for fightin’.
    They’d better be super stealthy ’round these parts. We may have lots of water [at present], but we also have a lot of respect for it. (I don’t think I have to tell you that we might “legislate” to protect it. Long past time for that owned shit.)
    Now, why are we getting so much push-back from the rabid right wing on this site? Why always changing the subject? Why all the constant whinging denial of damn-near EVERYTHING? Why all the instant pouncing upon anything that appears in any way a “lib’rul” construct. (Even tho’ someone pointed out early on that there IS no Left to be found in any organized way, anywhere.)
    Let’s take a look at motivation. Authoritarian personalities cannot abide change. They don’t want these discussions to take place. They want to “prove” that the Market (genuflecting) will solve all problems; and nothing need be done (other than doing away with empathy and compassion; them’s nasty lib’rul traits, ya know.)
    My supposition is that they’d prefer we’d just abandon this site and stop talking about the issues that JHK so graphically points out. Because is makes them nervous? Angry? Suspicious of their Masters? (Heaven forfend.) Perhaps if they’re not confronted with these dire matters, they’ll go away? Afraid of losing their “victim” status? Too much work? Too much thinking? Too much mixing with brown people to get things done? What the fuck is up?
    I dunno. I invite your speculation as to why the Righty-Tighty’s are so loud, so proudly ignorant and so Gawddamn REPETITIVE! (Man, sure does take some powerful lot of repeating to get those talking points pounded home!)

  182. Vlad Krandz February 7, 2011 at 7:03 pm #

    Fuck you Pangloss.

  183. Alexandra February 7, 2011 at 7:09 pm #

    @ FishmanFive54
    The Gaia hypothesis – look it up maybe.. .eh?
    @ Mr. Kearns…
    Nice apoplectic equine vision there *sniggers* Let’s hope you’s not be right in my lifetime, that’s about three good decades to go (with luck), but then again knowing the fondness of the Chinese for burning mega, mega, mega tons of coal 24/7/365 at evermore phenomenal rates, and what with them RSA folk turning coal into transport fuel… eek!
    @ progressorconserv
    *The connection of healthcare to peak oil is really weak* Its not on the functionality of hospitals, they’re one of the major users of energy in ‘any’ city, staff/patients depend on fuel to get in… and meds/pharma’s and the myriads of plastics used for treating come from oil? John Hopkins have done seminal think-tank stuff on this…. so critical it be…
    See here item #3
    http://www.jhsph.edu/dept/ehs/research/Schwartz/index.html
    @ SJmom
    I’m a fan of this gal…
    http://www.ellenmacarthur.com/
    I raced yachts for many years, mainly out of Cowes, she’s sailed/raced deep down in the South Atlantic twice 3 years apart – she was so shocked, 2nd time around how much more iceberg activity there was – and that it was heading further and further up North, where it didn’t used to be…
    To see change, simply visit Antarctica, and be aware that there are penguins of certain varieties that are fast dying-out… but who really cares about silly little creatures like those… eh?
    @ Vlad Krandz
    I don’t put people down, or call them scum – I just have a wee small problem with a lack of general educational intelligence…
    Is that so bad? Oh that and a loathing for lowest common denominator anything…
    Oh yes… and having a pathological dislike off racists, bearing in mind that again – if keen on history yous be – our gene pool way, way, back was a very tiny once…..
    A clue there perhaps as to what that might entail at a deeper physiological level?

  184. asoka February 7, 2011 at 7:12 pm #

    PorC said: “Unless I overlooked something, US healthcare has nothing to do with JHK’s opus for the week.”
    =====
    Unless you get proper health care you could end up in a mummy’s tomb. The Affordable Care Act is just the start of a health care revolution.
    “Revolution, once started, is rather like the insidious invasion of water through the eaves of a house when the ice-dams build up” –JHK
    That is what has the notOEO’s in an uproar. They see the handwriting on the wall, or so they think.
    Yeah, right. Just like they said Obama’s socialist takeover of major car companies would not work.
    Look at GM and Chrysler today… seems like government socialism works.

  185. Vlad Krandz February 7, 2011 at 7:17 pm #

    Let’s get married! Or would that be gay? I’m an America Firster. If any Country engages in coolie labor like China, then we can’t compete. So we don’t trade with them. Or we use that which has been maligned for generations by intellectual whores – the Tariff.
    If I was Canadian, I would be a Canadian Firster. If Indian, an Indian Firster. This is natural politics upadated for the industrial age -Fascism in other words.

  186. ozone February 7, 2011 at 7:21 pm #

    >Who the F___ is Gaiea???
    Just some whore. She’ll put out for anyone, and if you don’t pay her back she has you fucked up by her pimp’s posse who ride on four horses. -N.K.
    ========================
    LOL! That’s a classic, Neil!

  187. loren23 February 7, 2011 at 7:27 pm #

    Dear Egyptian demonstrators,
    Please do not damage the pyramids. We will not rebuild.
    -the Jews

  188. Vlad Krandz February 7, 2011 at 7:28 pm #

    Education and intelligence aren’t the same thing – especially these days. If you had much of the latter you would know this.
    Please marry a Black Man and have half Black and half White children. I will look and tell you that they look just like you even though they will look far more Black than White. Our traits are largely recessive and precious. But this is lost on people who like you who seek the approval of the unseen Masters who programmed them. And you call your programming education and feel superior because of it.

  189. lbendet February 7, 2011 at 7:30 pm #

    Vlad,
    Don’t scare me! We don’t have to get married just ’cause I don’t like free trade either—but then after all my anti Milton Friedman and Globalism posts, you must have known that anyway!!
    About the gay thing I guess it depends on whether you’re a man or a woman:)

  190. ozone February 7, 2011 at 7:38 pm #

    “Regardin Kunstler’s OP; nobody mentioned the “Export Land Model” which says that growing populations at home want to use resources previously allocated for export. Colonialism is a zero sum game; resources allocated to keeping the US wealthy must be taken from somebody else. They will object.” -Pangolin
    ============================
    Naaaaaaaaaaah! It’s been going fine, so far, hasn’t it? What could possibly go wrong with this perfect state of things?
    ;o)

  191. Alexandra February 7, 2011 at 7:45 pm #

    @ Vlad the i’m pale’r… well defo whiter than white… than you…
    What is that deep seated fear that you white supremacists harbour within your fascist beating hearts… ??
    Why of course… !!
    All we need look to is the homoerotic fantasy world of a withering white baby-boomer male, haunted by night-sweat images of stallion-endowed, gleaming muscled black men – presumed hell-bent on deflowering the pure, chaste innocence of creamy-silken white maidens – you know, with them in full wanton moaning feminine submissiveness, giving themselves totally over to the superior thrusting flagrant violence, of that exotic brown male flesh…
    Think white mothers, wives, girlfriends and/or God forbid – the ultimate act of debasement – the taking of a quivering kneeled blue-eyed blond virgin daughters, all delighting in dancing harmony to the raw animal life-giving power, that secretly the white supremacist himself both abhors and yearns for…
    (His power long gone now, the only hint of things past made possible by Pfizer Inc.)
    So through that natural joy bringing, ultimate jungle-bunny penile act, game-changing, seed planting, that directly leads to the genetic annihilation of the weaker white man’s recessive genes, loin-locked into a root core trajectory of self-destruction – game, set and match…
    (Let’s breed them out)
    But wait, what’s this? A jarring snap and click of those manicured fingers… and Vlad, VLAD, V L A D… hey there Mr Krandz … 5, 4 , 3 , 2, 1… (and you’re back in the room)… relax, relax… fret not my poor sweet darling.
    It was all just a ghastly distorted leftist meterosexual wet dream…?
    Now switch back to the TV, tune/zone back onto a reassuring clean blonde anchor-babe via Fox News, and exhale and view if any, the nigger’s now safely displayed and once more safely contained as corporate Amerikha approved sports stars, comic or musical entertainers, and/or at worst a Sunday morning lay preacher…
    Glory, glory be… hallelujah!
    Be seeing you…

  192. ozone February 7, 2011 at 8:05 pm #

    Well!
    That was verrrrry………. um…….. sweaty!
    ;o)
    Do you, perchance, write any of those “bodice rippers”?
    (My neighbor’s a member of the Romance Writers of America. RWA; sounds so cold and clinical, doesn’t it? I prefer the acronym BRA: Bodice Rippers of America.)

  193. Gerrit Botha February 7, 2011 at 8:14 pm #

    Hello CFN, I’m a newbie here although I’ve read most of JHK’s books. I see I have to get up at sparrow’s fart to get into this conversation. I know there serious stuff going on in the nexus of the Arab world, all of which will probably help the long emergency roll a little faster, but I was thankful to JHK for giving voice to my disgust at that SB HT show. Now as a Packer fan I enjoyed the outcome of the whole thing, but that HT spectacle was evocative of the empire’s decline.
    Gerrit in Canada
    Sustainable Living Blog
    http://www.gerritbotha.com

  194. jerry February 7, 2011 at 8:19 pm #

    From Hillary Clinton to Madeline Albright, the ruling elite say how Mubarak is OUR friend, as he stashed $5-70B of US military and humanitarian aid into his bank accounts over the last 30 years.
    As the US subsidized the second largest recipient of US aid into his accounts, the Federal Reserve is doing the same thing for the corporate and financial elite so they can ride the Wall Street wealth wave.
    The spread between the ruling rich and great Unwashed in Egypt is not that much different than what is occurring in the US.
    The only difference is that here in the US the grand majority of dumbed down dimwits are high on beer, drugs, and Cheez Whiz.
    http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

  195. progressorconserve February 7, 2011 at 8:23 pm #

    Either you are a really good descriptive writer, who, having read far too many Romance Novels, bursts upon CFN –
    Or else, Dear Alexandra, you have some certain, close, personal experience in these matters:
    “….silken white maidens – you know, with them in full wanton moaning feminine submissiveness, giving themselves totally over to the superior thrusting flagrant violence, of that exotic brown male flesh….”
    -alexandra-
    Either one is fine with me, alexa. I had given up hopes of an erotic writing career fostered on CFN – perhaps there is yet hope – ? And now I really WANT to crew on that sailboat of yours.
    =============
    OK – health care? NO – first, going with sailing analogies, how do you propose that the US empire shall make its end?
    Will it be like the Sun at the equator before the evening sun sight – dropping quickly from sight ere the sextant comes out of the case.
    Or will our empire end like the floating “midnight Sun” in the high latitudes – slowly moving sideways on the horizon and completely useless for navigation?
    That is the question, isn’t it. If you are a quick-descent “doomer” in the parlance of CFN, then you are correct concerning medical services. Health care goes QUICKLY along with everything but our survivalist communities.
    These are left scattered around for a year or so, eating canned turnips and firing their firearms at random targets or supplicants.
    I, on the other hand, am a slow-descent “slider,” as they are referred to on CFN. The collapse of the US might take decades – decades, I say.
    That makes the decline of health care a relevant issue.
    I made reference to a website last week that said the ABSOLUTELY LAST THING THAT THE US WILL EVER GIVE UP will be her military powers. Evidence for this seems incontrovertible, in the form of every great military power that has ever existed in the HISTORY OF RECORDED HISTORY.
    So if the military goes last, what goes second to last, third to last, etc.?
    From the bottom, IMO:
    1. Military – last govt. function standing
    2. Internal law enforcement – civil or martial
    3. Basic needs, AFDC, etc.
    4. Human health care, US style
    ?
    99. ?
    100. Pampered pet care or floral services, IMHO.
    We could quibble over the details, but most US citizens will back me on the idea that Americans like to avoid seeing dead, hungry people in the streets and on TV (TV WILL work WON’T it?), for as long as possible.
    This may be a trait unique to citizens of the US, or of other outposts of Western Civilization, or not – I have little frame of reference on this.
    You can put this also as, “we are a compassionate people.” or is that, “we are compassionate conservatives.”
    There is a difference.

  196. Rick February 7, 2011 at 8:41 pm #

    Once again Jim, great article. As for the Egypt outcome, that’s still a work-in-progress. And since the O man, doesn’t have any balls to do the right thing, the work-in-progress continues. Plus, the money Mubarak has obtained over the years via corruption and the US tax payer, is another reason the revolution isn’t going so well. $40 – $70 billion, no camel jokey is smart enough to obtain that kind of wealth by doing the right thing. This guy needs to go now!
    BTW, sorry to see all the douche bag AGW deniers commenting here like lurkers working for Fox News. Not really surprised though, since America is filled with morons.

  197. bproman February 7, 2011 at 8:42 pm #

    If the stock market is selling shares in an Egyptian pyramid scheme pardon me if I pass on the opportunity. No super bowl pun indended. Barump bump.

  198. Ozymandius February 7, 2011 at 9:26 pm #

    Shame that some of those posting on this blog seem to have joined the race to the bottom of the heap. Grateful that Jim provides us with his weekly comedy sketch – but do you know what his game is? No, neither do I, but Jim’s CFN commentary gives me the best laugh of the week. Orlov comes a good second. Nice to see that there are still a few who can combobulate urbanspeak, Jim. Way to go.

  199. Alexandra February 7, 2011 at 9:34 pm #

    @ progressorconserve
    Nope don’t read romance stuff, last books I bought were, in the following order; Stieg Larssons trilogy set, then JHKs Witch of Hebron, pre that Iain M Banks – The Algebraist…
    As to my personal experience, have I dated men of different to my own genetic mix….? Yes.
    Do I write erotic fiction? No… I’m dyslexic which wouldn’t help…lol I prefer to play it out, than write it, as with my long-term relationships experience I believe they thrive best if both parties are/be mutually imaginative and creative – being fit and a non-smoker helps.
    My only US based b/f ever – was a clever-dick jewish lawyer whom regularly ran marathons – get my drift?
    Re: the sail boat – twas ordered back a few weekends back in Düsseldorf, at the boat show there, the main male member on the boat will be 110% pure Scots porridge-oat based ecosse. I’ll be in east Germany later this year for a month or so to oversee it into safe as spec’d water delivery…
    Quick v slow – descent – doomers?
    I can only judge the US on what I feel/see when i visit, like now and when I was in Arizona for a month last year, my Boston stint ends this weekend…
    How it ends?
    My best guess shot – the US/UK have many similarities – over-populated, under resourced with large amounts of peeps on welfare and a heavy bias to aged’s needing big healthcare inputs… tis horrible look away now.
    Dial in the democratic ping-pong Govts that have no alternative but to destroy their societies… Short-termism and keeping the rabble happy gurantees it…
    Our mutual horrible numbers means you/us have to feed to survive and will continue to consume until nothing is left – locust like we be. Defo when you dial in the concept of ‘ might as well enjoy ourselves ideology (dudes….LETS PARTAY ON DOWN!!)… if the systems going to fail anyways.
    (Its the baby-boomer way – you keep what you kill)
    The politicos role in all this is to keep acting all’s well – keep the illusion ‘alive’ and ticking – that alls well, kool-n-great… back to growth in the end, but like a Kafkaesque plot nightmare always just outta grasps sight…
    But you know what – believe hard enough and its always just around that next corner….right?
    This keeps working as: The bulk of peeps ‘always’ chooses to believe that if there is a ‘serious’ problem that the Govt will solve it – cue cavalry sweeping over the hills…to rapturous, standing ovation applause.
    Like the Titanic all do/will cling to this vision right to the very end… even when the ship is really going down…. no really they do….the alternative really is just TO HARSH
    *sniggers*
    Meanwhile the reality is increasingly in the USA/UK getting used to living without energy and wealth, that is until the current borrowed money, that (and savings and wealth of past generations/ages) is finally spent out.
    Where just that CANABALISTIC….yummy, yummy…
    The tipping point comes with our poor, but not that dumb young. The problems (muck like in Egypt)kick against the perceived elite and rulers… when the illusion of hope finally smashes, shatters and breaks.
    Not if…. but when?
    So the big one is which year, month or day – does the bitch-slap light bulb moment finally strike?
    The date when the illusions DO finally die for those younger people, triggered by the Chinese and BRICs rocketing the price of remaining oil, mixed with the number of elderly people in the OECDs reaching the point where medical services fail and when the pensions/welfare ssystems savings of these once powerful nations are finally exhausted…
    I give it at best three decades… at worst if the Israeli/Arabic sh#t goes up in tribal flames a decade or less…
    Either way I’m out there sailing….
    *sniggers*
    Sunsets and rises at sea are truly sublime..

  200. Vlad Krandz February 7, 2011 at 10:00 pm #

    The sorry result of Feminism and the unspeakable decadence of our times. Old Cherokee saying, “A People aren’t defeated until their woman’s hearts are on the ground” – we are just about defeated if she’s a representative example. Maybe not quite but the bell part of the curve steadily morphs to the left in steady wave like movement both in terms of morality and even raw IQ as our Thorough Breeds are bred with work horses. And they call it free will!

  201. rocco February 7, 2011 at 10:15 pm #

    Good Morning Jim and peak oil gang:
    A senior citizen neighbor called in terror from our local Walmart during that snow storm alert. People were fighting for bread, shoving, pushing, swearing, she went to hide in a non food lane until it was over. I hear reports often of markets running out or low on food stuff,but our one western NY newspaper town will make sure that none is reported, and redirects your brief attention to the Superbowl( I watched Spartacus: Gods of the Arena on Netflix) wow the orginial superbowl party. Global warming debate, you cant discuss with the right wing Fox folks, I dont anymore, nature will show itself in time. Keep up the good work Jim and all other posters, remember President Obama is a secret Vatican agent to convert the Southern Christians back into the old Roman Church. May Zeus bless us all.

  202. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 10:26 pm #

    “You don’t seem to know what it means when the national Congress enacts a law. It means it is the law of the land.”
    And you don’t seem to know that courts can overturn unconstitutional laws. Like they have in this instance.

  203. marzo February 7, 2011 at 10:28 pm #

    As old as I am I would have to take some viagra to get a hard-on for Egypt.

  204. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 10:29 pm #

    “There isn’t any particular reason why the founding fathers would have anticipated this issue.”
    Fuckin aye bud. They paid for it as they received it. Pure and simple.

  205. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 10:30 pm #

    “Unless I overlooked something, US healthcare has nothing to do with JHK’s opus for the week.
    The connection of healthcare to peak oil is really weak, IMO.”
    Who the fuck cares you simpleton?

  206. marzo February 7, 2011 at 10:32 pm #

    pyramid power

  207. James Hansen February 7, 2011 at 10:32 pm #

    It seems to me the controversy over climate change is much more political than scientific.I did a little research on a few respectable and distinguished climate scientist brought up by GW deniers and they almost all ways were taking big money from Shell or Mobile oil.And even they, for the most part, do not dispute that the planet is getting warmer. Only that man[fossil fuel companies]are not to blame.
    Since the heat trapping characteristics of green house gases are not in dispute and neither is the number of billions of tons we pump in the atmosphere, how could we not have an effect on climate?
    The atmosphere hardly exists after just 7 miles up, it is not that big.I suppose that GW deniers would be comfortable with the statement: No matter how much sugar I pour into my coffee, the taste does not change.
    In 1900 the co2 was 260 ppm,they are now 390 ppm. 45 million years ago they were 500 ppm and the seas were 300 feet higher! That is where we are headed.

  208. marzo February 7, 2011 at 10:34 pm #

    snow on the pyramids…awesome snow boarding

  209. marzo February 7, 2011 at 10:36 pm #

    the sphinx ain’t laughing

  210. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 10:37 pm #

    “It’s weird how the ‘baggers don’t stand around in circles burning their Medicare, VA or Federal Employee Health Benefit’s cards.’
    No, it isn’t weird at all. What already is, already is. They realize how fucked up some of our current programs are, know we are already bankrupt and have come to the, not brilliant but still inconceivable conclusion to far too many people, that enough, is e-fucking-nuff.
    Capiche. dimwit?

  211. marzo February 7, 2011 at 10:39 pm #

    there’s always money out there to be had, you just have to dig into the pockets of the rich

  212. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 10:39 pm #

    “Massive heat waves followed by torrential floods seems to be a new and popular “feature” of your planet. Enjoy.”
    Oh, so you aren’t a part of this planet? What a fucking douche.

  213. marzo February 7, 2011 at 10:42 pm #

    we are destroying the planet with our arrogance and ignorance

  214. marzo February 7, 2011 at 10:45 pm #

    in the middle east unemployment is about 25%
    good breathing ground for discontent

  215. CaptSpaulding February 7, 2011 at 10:56 pm #

    Well, it looks like the pissant has pretty good control over the forum today. He’s got some of you responding just like he does, which just demonstrates how easily some of you are manipulated. Myself, I don’t care what he says and you people shouldn’t either. He gets booted off regularly and returns because he has an audience that validates his boorish behavior by responding to him. I’d have to say that you deserve to have him on here, because none of you can resist responding to his provocations. If you can’t do that, how will you handle global warming, peak oil, or anything else. Frankly, I’m disappointed that you folks aren’t smarter than this. He’s a troll, treat him like one.

  216. ozone February 7, 2011 at 10:57 pm #

    So, do you want to know how this corporate-controlled empire thingy shakes out as it goes bump-in-the-night? Do you really? What have you “heard” lately? Chris Hedges’ potent and terrible insight draws blood again….
    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/recognizing_the_language_of_tyranny_20110206/

  217. San Jose Mom 51 February 7, 2011 at 10:59 pm #

    Me thinks Ms. Alexandra was an excellent copy writer in the advertising industry.
    Jen

  218. asoka February 7, 2011 at 11:10 pm #

    notOEO said: “And you don’t seem to know that courts can overturn unconstitutional laws.”
    =========
    There are 15 to 20 lawsuits pending challenging the Affordable Care Act. Several suits have been refused a hearing on technicalities such as the plaintiffs’ lack of standing.
    Some have ruled in favor and some against. Are you telling me that the Affordable Care Act has been overturned in the United States?
    Are you telling me the Patient’s Bill of Rights now does not exist?
    Are you telling me there are now no limits on the powers of insurance companies to refuse to cover children with pre-existing medical conditions?
    Are you telling me it is now again legal to terminate a patients’ insurance when they become sick?
    Are you telling me parents can not keep young adult children on their policies until they are 26?
    Are you telling me there is no high risk pool which allows people who have been denied coverage to buy insurance?
    Are you sure these are now all illegal in the entire USA because the “courts” have overturned the Affordable Care Act?
    I don’t think you are correct. The “courts” don’t overturn unconstitutional laws, the Supreme Court does, and the Supreme Court has not ruled on the Affordable Care Act.
    Until the Supreme Court rules the Affordable Care Act is the law of the land.

  219. asoka February 7, 2011 at 11:17 pm #

    CORRECTION
    Are you telling me it is now again legal to terminate a patient’s insurance when they become sick?

  220. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 11:23 pm #

    “Are you telling me it is now again legal to terminate a patient’s insurance when they become sick?”
    It never was to begin with. The terms of an insurance plan are a legal contract. Unless it would be stipulated in the plan that “once becoming ill, you will be terminated” no such thing could happen.(Can’t say I’ve ever seen such a policy.) Now if you are suggesting that someone gets sick, can’t pay their premiums and loses their insurance..yeah, that happens. Their part of the contract is to make monthly payments. No payment, no insurance.

  221. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 11:26 pm #

    “I don’t think you are correct. The “courts” don’t overturn unconstitutional laws, the Supreme Court does…”
    Hog wash. A lower court can as well. The ruling can always be appealed to the U.S. Supreme but the Supreme Court can always refuse to hear the appeal which would make the lower decision stand.

  222. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 11:28 pm #

    ” He’s a troll, treat him like one.”
    Well as a matter of fact douche-boy about the only time you show up to chime in around here is when I show up so what the fuck does that make you…the trolls little meat puppet. Yep. Sure does, fucktard.

  223. noel bodie February 7, 2011 at 11:28 pm #

    start with THE LONG EMERGENCY, well written and researched, a classic

  224. asoka February 7, 2011 at 11:30 pm #

    notOEO said: “The ruling can always be appealed to the U.S. Supreme…”
    =====
    Thank you.

  225. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 11:35 pm #

    “notOEO said: “The ruling can always be appealed to the U.S. Supreme…”
    Yeah, it can. But the court can also refuse to hear the case. Or it can hear the case and agree with the lower court’s decision. So, why the fuck are you thanking me, dip-shit? You were making the claim that only the Supreme court could rule a law unconstitutional and you clearly were wrong. You’re not very bright are you?

  226. Qshtik February 7, 2011 at 11:39 pm #

    good breathing ground for discontent
    ===========
    Will someone else please tell Marzo what is wrong with the above phrase so he or she doesn’t have to appear stupid in the future and I don’t always have to play the heavy. It’s someone else’s turn.

  227. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 11:40 pm #

    Speaking of MORONS Obama told the U.S. Chamber of Commerce the following today:
    “Obama: Corporate Profits “Have To Be Shared By American Workers”
    Is this guy for fucking real? His understanding of the word “profits” is nil. Wages (and other items) are treated as expenses. Profits are what are left over after all expenses are paid. Fucking “profits” don’t have to be shared with anybody except the fucking owners of the business. And he says this at a Chamber meeting. And they didn’t laugh him off the stage? What an imbecile!

  228. notOEO February 7, 2011 at 11:42 pm #

    “It’s someone else’s turn.”
    OK, I’ll take my turn. Shut the fuck up. No one, excepting you, gives a fucking fig. Got it?

  229. poiuy February 7, 2011 at 11:57 pm #

    Nature always was and is the superpower, it is increasingly slapping humanity in the face more frequently and with more intensity now (events of weather, food shortage, etc). Most of the peoples of the world are not going to understand this initially because they still have to fight the inequalizers — the institutional hiererchies (present in all “isms”). After a period of inequality decimation, and with a resulting temporary reprieve in the problems that will resurface after the effects of inequalities have reached steady-state, will there be a chance of a real awakening to the truth of unsustainability (population and consumption excesses). The curtain of virtual reality will eventually open and give way to the emerging physical reality on the world arena.

  230. greyghost05 February 8, 2011 at 1:12 am #

    Dawg, it looks like you & I are the only ones who took basic Earth Science in high school or maybe a little Geology. Look anywhere you want people. The evidence of earth changes is plainly visable anytime you look at the layers in a rock wall. Whether it is in the vastness of the Grand Canyon or the exposed layers along I-80 over in PA. The ice cap in Antartica is melting from the bottom up. Not top down. Why ? It’s 30 below on top. The earth is for sure warming up and radical earth changes have been predicted,but they are totally out of our hands. A batch of tetonic plates shifting and a few more volcanos breaking loose and we’ll all be having a bad day.The Global Warming vs SUV’s is just another scam. I’ll plant some trees on my farm and sell the carbon credits to BP and they won’t have to fix the pollution pouring out of their refinery. And this will stop Global Warming and Save the Planet ? OH sure !
    As for the middle east shutting off the oil,cool. If we can’t afford to farm on the scale needed to export our grain,well I guess they can just learn to eat shit after they run out of camels and dogs.

  231. Patrizia February 8, 2011 at 2:58 am #

    Thank you for the link.
    Chris Hedges’ Columns Recognizing the Language of Tyranny is so true and illuminating in its crudeness.
    He is able to express what we think and cannot say for a lack of words.
    He has them, the right words, and the right picture of what is happening.
    Too bad there are too few who can understand.
    When the mass will, it will be too late.
    It is like cancer, when you detect it, when you have the clear symptoms, it is too late.
    You will have to die, because you cannot believe that it can happen.
    Just like tyranny, it always happens to the “others”.
    And when it happens to you, you can just be “appalled”, incredulous, devastated.
    But let me say, if there are two languages for tyranny, there is just one for the “serfs”:
    VAFFANCULO
    said from the deep of my heart…
    By the way, Mr. Kunstler it is written with 2 F…

  232. ffkling February 8, 2011 at 2:59 am #

    Hey notOEO,
    “Doctored evidence, weather stations that used to be situated in fields but in latter years had asphalt heat sinks constructed around them don’t cut it.”
    Please refrain from presenting the patently ridiculous proclamations, unsubstantiated of course, of FOX Noise as the vast majority of readers here know better.

  233. icurhuman2 February 8, 2011 at 5:01 am #

    I saw Krugman’s article today in the Sydney Morning Herald and noticed no mention of peak-oil, peak-fertilser or peak-anything. He merely pointed out the usual obvious-to-the-dummy stuff, as usual.
    JHK mustn’t have noticed that the gas pipeline from Egypt that supplies 40% of Israel’s gas was bombed and the pipeline shutdown. Good. What was also good was seeing a Hamas leader escape from jail in Egypt during the hubub, he’d been held without charge for three years. Nice to see that fascist state shitting bricks. The Jordanians and several other Middle Eastern nations have already started to change their ways, at least cosmetically – sacking PM’s and and declaring no hereditory handovers etc – but that won’t be enough.
    The Superbowl got a mention this week, which is to be expected as gridiron is such a culturally universal American pastime, a shame it’s such a pethetic game to watch, nearly as boring as watching cricket, which is only marginally less boring than watching grass grow. I’ve tried to watch American football a few times, being mildly interested in finding out how it was played, but after every thrre-to-five second “play” there’s a fifteento-twenty second pause while the announcer get’s a brief bio from one of the players girlfriends as to why he’s called “the fridge” or “the brick” – maybe because the overweight “athlete” spends much of his time with his fat head in the fridge, or is so dumb he’s a thick as a brick. Baseball, however, is actually worth while watching, certainly faster than cricket, though I have to say some of the players I’ve watched don’t look too fit – too much salt and butter in the diet I assume.
    Egypt will likely end up stalling the exit of Mubarak until he can plunder as much wealth as he can, though you’d have to wonder why he’d bother with a reported $70 billion fortune in property and assets already salted away, and until he can set up his dodgy cronies in position for the next eight months until an election in September. America will do anything to protect it’s “interests” in Egypt which includes mostly the security buffer it supplies against Gaza for the Israelis. When you consider that America spends two billion a year to prop up Egypt you have wonder what the Egyptians would do with the seventy billion they might recover were Mubarak to fold and they were able to get it back.
    It’s all good news to me. The sooner we start seeing this shitful excuse of a world order shutting down the better. I have to say I’ll be happy to see the U.S. empire go down the gurgler sooner than later, the longer they have their grubby mits on the tiller the worse the collapse will be.

  234. sevenmmm February 8, 2011 at 5:25 am #

    Mubarak is another swindler of nectar in a long line of middle east leaders feeding from the flower of America. Sure, in the same breath, there is an even longer line of citizen swindlers, but the story line remains the same over the 10,000 years – grandiose is the current frenzied level. As the story line is always the same, so will be the ending.
    Reading the market only goes up is similar to hearing that heat rises. I’m sorry, heat doesn’t rise, it only turns cold, and the profits of Wall Street, never, ever, goes to main street.

  235. messianicdruid February 8, 2011 at 6:29 am #

    Does this ring of true? {to anyone else}:
    “The internet is a terrible place to satisfy our need for friendship, and it’s an awkward and difficult place to discuss opinions and ideas. I think discussions of ideas are best done in the flesh, and ideas on the internet are best communicated one way, like in books. This is a radical position with which every popular blogger will agree. But there are some things the internet does amazingly well, and most of them have to do with sharing practical information. If you want to coordinate a political action, or make your own solar panels, go online. If you want to have a good conversation, invite some friends over for dinner.”
    http://WWW.ranprieur.com

  236. Nikolaz February 8, 2011 at 8:20 am #

    Mubarak can only be a CIA stooge if he remained on good terms with the west and lasted 30 years. How come these despots always organize their sons to replace themselves? He cannot possibly be so thick as to think this formula works when it has failed throughout history. Unless, as you suggest, he thinks he’s a fucking Pharoe.
    To change the subject, internal combustion engines only use about 15% of the energy in the fuel to propel a car – the rest is wasted in heat and noise. Electric cars use about 90% of the battery energy. The only way forward for “happy motoring” is electric cars using a jacked up grid and improved battery technology.

  237. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 8:30 am #

    “discussions of ideas are best done in the flesh, and ideas on the internet are best communicated one way, like in books.”
    -MD-
    Your post is true enough, MD.
    But when people discuss ideas in the flesh, they tend to avoid discussion of ideas that are personally challenging. And it is only through challenge and examination of belief that we learn to grow.
    I have seen several posters change their ideas on the desirability of high US immigration rates and population growth – going forward.
    Without his website, I never would have known how many people believe in one conspiracy theory or another to the point that it animates their approach to life.
    Without this website I would never have understood that large numbers of people will always consider Ronald Reagan worthy of Sainthood, to the point that if you attack any aspect of the RR presidency – they immediately throttle down their brains into intellectual “fight of flight.”
    You yourself, MD, have posted out some great concepts that most of us here would not have heard of without the existence of your MD persona on CFN.
    Interesting ideas, all. I could list many more.
    Life is a mystery, wrapped in an enigma.

  238. lbendet February 8, 2011 at 8:52 am #

    From a post I wrote on 11/20/10:
    Bill Kristol’s wet dream is to play Charles Bernard Shaw (as god) pulling the strings of his subject (Sarah Pallin) from some lofty clouds as seen on the cover of the album of “My Fair Lady” to her puppet regime.
    How surprising today to hear Kristol on Morning Joe say he was disappointed in Pallin! He said she was shrewd (which you know means she’s not smart). His complaint is that she cannot articulate policy–like no kidding, genius, What were you thinking when you pushed her for McCain’s running mate?
    My guess is he tried to fill her little head with his Neoconservative rubbish and she couldn’t retain it.
    He’s still sticking up for our total waste of blood and treasure in the Mideast.
    Don’t forget an unstable mideast is an unstable US!

  239. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 8:55 am #

    If we were in the Navy and you said:
    “He’s a troll, treat him like one.”
    “And that’s a order!”
    -captain spaulding-
    Then we would all say, “Aye, aye, Captain,” and comply with your order. Of course, that metaphor breaks down before it unties the dock lines.
    Let’s try another one, Captain. You’re the master of arms at this important meeting. If we were in the real world you and I would take the individual in question out behind the dumpsters for a little “talking to.”
    And if that didn’t help we could smack him around to the point that he never said another word at one of our meetings. But this metaphor loses its rudder and goes in circles, also.
    notOEO actually came up with some well stated intelligent stuff yesterday. And he dropped all of the insults, etc, for a while.
    Then the Resident Impediment engaged me over Obamacare. And all I wanted to do was redirect RI off the subject of Obamacare. But notOEO interpreted something directed at Asoka as being an insult to notOEO.
    So, if you look back up the thread, Captain, you can see the exact moment last night where notOEO stopped thinking and went back to invective.
    And it is totally the fault of Asoka and me.
    ==================
    A mind is a terrible thing to waste. UNCF
    It is a terrible thing to lose one’s mind.BushII

  240. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 9:14 am #

    Here is a lovely site regarding the location of weather stations: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/10/31/metadata-errors-in-the-global-weather-station-database/
    I have included a quote from one of the sites more astute readers:
    “Questions of the veracity of the temperature record is what initially made me suspicious that many climate scientists are using data extracted from noise to make a case for AGW. The more the topic of the actual collection of data is discussed, the more I become convinced that the data collection methadology is more than a little inconsistent; the final theoretical product seems (to me, at least) to be rather like a symphony played by an orchestra from a score that was accidentally shredded and then reassembled by a committee of statisticians who had no idea of what the symphony sounded like in the first place and whose final product is nothing more than a collection of random noise.
    My initial doubts about methadology have not been assuaged!”
    Read it and weep and then STFU.

  241. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 9:19 am #

    Kristol on Palin
    I’ve always wondered where exactly in the McCain apparatus the idea to pick Palin originated.
    Because – left brained me – it was always pretty obvious that McCain could picked a centrist Repub friend of his and had at least as good a chance at winning the election. Considering McCains’s age and health – he needed a running mate who was a completely known quantity, in case McCain keeled over on the Podium taking his Oath of Office, for one thing.
    So that’s an interesting idea, LBEND.
    I’ve always wondered what on earth lead the BushI camp so select that senator who could not spell potato, also.
    I’ll always wonder if the BushI team may have let that quayle fly his second term right into the ground.

  242. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 9:22 am #

    Regarding selection of inmbecelic VP’s. Two words: Joe Biden.

  243. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 9:24 am #

    “Then the Resident Impediment engaged me over Obamacare. And all I wanted to do was redirect RI off the subject of Obamacare”
    And? Because you wanted to “redirect” everyone was supposed to fall in line? What a fucktard.

  244. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 9:35 am #

    “Because – left brained me – it was always pretty obvious that McCain could picked a centrist Repub friend of his and had at least as good a chance at winning the election.”
    And that is because you don’t know what you are talking about. (Must be that “left brain”.)
    McCain has always been seen as suspect regarding his conservative credentials by a large percentage of the Republican base. His recent statement that Obama “has moved to the center” is the type of sentiment that confirms this suspicion. Hence he could not afford to go with a centrist candidate because he himself was skewing too far to the left.

  245. asoka February 8, 2011 at 9:41 am #

    “Then the Resident Impediment engaged me over Obamacare.”
    ======
    PorC, I prefer the name Asoka and consider Resident Impediment offensive.
    In civil discourse such preferences are respected.

  246. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 9:42 am #

    - On anthropogenic global warming –
    A lot of you folks have been wishing for a week where this CFN thread stayed off questions of religion and r*ce (race, sshhh!) and focused on something with a little more intellectual meat, more related to Peak Oil.
    Well, here you go guys, AGW. Have a ball!
    Personally, I think the science is about 85% settled in favor of the broad outlines indicating that human activities are impacting the Earth’s climate, and that this impact will accelerate with the passage of time as current trends continue.
    Now, if some of y’all want to turn CFN into a science class this week – and try to “edumacate”
    the AGW deniers – Well, fine, that’s a better use of JHK’s bandwidth than many other uses to which it has been put.
    In the final analysis it may be counterproductive, though. And this should lead us to a bigger question that may be productive.
    Cash suggests from his “neutral?” perch in Canada, that denial of AGW has become a mark of political/tribal loyalty for millions of American conservatives. I do believe Cash may be right.
    So the far better question is to ask why this is so. And to ask what those of us who understand science, OR those of us who are on the political left – should do about this issue moving forward.
    Just try not to insult the opposition, you bunch of g** d*mn, tree hugging, m*th*r fsck*ng l*ft*st c*mm** b*st*rds.
    Pl**s* – J*st tr* it – being civil to the opposition, that is..
    PoC

  247. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown February 8, 2011 at 9:43 am #

    http://spitfirelist.com/news/murdoch-and-news-corp-aligning-with-muslim-brotherhood/
    Murdoch and News Corp Aligning with Muslim Brotherhood
    Rotana Media, the broad­caster and music group owned by Saudi bil­lion­aire investor Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, said it had agreed to sell a $70m stake to News Corp, Rupert Murdoch’s global media empire.
    Rotana said on Tues­day that News Corp had agreed to buy a 9.09 per cent stake with an option to take this up to 18.18 per cent.
    The move will mark News Corp’s most sig­nif­i­cant invest­ment so far in the Mid­dle East, where faster GDP growth, a young pop­u­la­tion and matur­ing adver­tis­ing mar­kets have begun to draw US and Euro­pean media groups fac­ing slow growth in their home markets.

  248. lbendet February 8, 2011 at 9:47 am #

    Tootsie,
    That may be the case, that McCain was advised to go far right on the running mate choice, but it was not his inclination.
    When Kristol was in Alaska, Pallin contacted him and met with him. He came out of those more social than anything else meetings very impressed. It was said in 2008 that Kristol discovered Pallin.
    It was a calculation that ultimately failed. McCain looked uncomfortable with the choice throughout the campaign, where she overshadowed him by a long-shot and his campaign handlers said she knew nothing about anything and went in her off the reservation.
    Not surprisingly she failed to seal the deal, because most of the country was not convinced that she would be a good choice in case something happened to the elderly statesman.
    All that said, at this point this country has gone so far right, that last night they said Reagan would have been too liberal for this climate in the Rep Party.
    Don’t forget how many times he raised taxes to balance the budget!

  249. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 9:49 am #

    Sorry Asoka
    Civil discourse also demands honesty from all of those involved.
    I have finally seen you derail one too many legitimate discussions. If you refuse to argue from a position of intellectual integrity I see no reason to change the sobriquet I have created for you.
    – – – – – – The Resident Impediment – – – – – – –

  250. LLPete February 8, 2011 at 9:56 am #

    Global warming?
    Fly over the United States and land at a major city at night, look at a satellite image of the world at night. All those lights that can be seen, and the billions more unseen during the day, are directly and indirectly the result of burning fossil fuels, chiefly coal and oil, all giving off smoke, exhaust, fumes, CO2, etc. If you want to understand the principle, close your garage door and light your BBQ burner inside, kick back and have a hot dog and beer, watch the game on your spare TV, take a nap….

  251. newworld February 8, 2011 at 10:14 am #

    AGW is a cult formed for the benefit for those who were not gonna buy Jared Diamonds Boasian nonsense, and this primarily means white gentile undergrads. Its a good racket for those not predisposed of thinking of head hunters as being the “world’s smartest people.”
    AGW is a grand hypothesis in the use of the big money carbon oligarchs. So give some undergrads a bit of esoteric knowledge,a few key buzzwords of defamation and voila a cult forms that performs financial magic for the transfer of wealth from the poor to the already wealthy like Al Gore of Occidental Coal Co. fortune.
    Besides AGW followers believe in the Blank Slate Theory and the genetics work of the murderous Lysenko, “science” my backside.

  252. SNAFU February 8, 2011 at 10:22 am #

    DD proclaims “because global warming is pure bullshit”.
    Ah yes; in my minds eye I envision Dawg sitting on his veranda as the Sun slowly sets in the West enjoying the balmy near 90 F February 30 knot evening breeze as he pulls aside the oxygen mask covering his nose and mouth so he can pull another long drag on his favorite cheroot. Smug is he in his conviction that the cancer which has invaded his lungs has not to do with his 40 year addiction to nicotine. The upstanding scientists who provided uncontroversial proof that tobacco smoking was not only not bad it was actually good for you, per the many advertisements stating same in the 1950’s and 60’s, had easily controverted the contentions of those stupid scientists on the gommerment dole who ineffectively attempted to convince the knowing that smoking cigarettes kills.
    With the smoking controversy put to bed, obviously in favor of the tobacco industry, those stupid bastards on the gommerment dole, who envision themselves as scientists, have now turned their feeble minds to attempting to prove that humans are increasing the total temperature of the Earth. How could anyone with a brain larger than a walnut not realize that scientists for the hydrocarbon purveyors, with no agenda of their own, have have easily demonstrated that global warming (my bad I forgot that the innocuous PC correct term is “climate change”) could in no way be a result of the puny efforts of humans. Dawg is comforted by the knowledge that once again the “good guys” have been proven correct and have put to bed the global warming controversy in favor of the hydrocarbon industry; two wins for the good guys 0 for the bad.
    Were I of a religious bent I would pray that DD be young enough to survive to observe the desert when there is little water available to divert to that unsustainable lifestyle and February in the desert is near 100 F gently stirred by a 40 knot breeze.
    SNAFU

  253. newworld February 8, 2011 at 10:25 am #

    And now scientist LL Pete informs of us the magic of CO2 poisoning. That would be CO poisoning and it only requires a very small amount before it affects the human body.
    Anyway the AGW demographic is but the smallest slice of the Democratic party, but it serves the wealthiest. Now does the National Council of LaRaza, NAACP or the various other ethnic pressure groups have statements on AGW? Imagine having the American Dream taken away because everything you have to buy skyrockets in price, while Al Gore flies overhead popping the Kristal and flushing the toilet on your head. AGW = carbon taxes = your fault.
    I live in Ilinois and one day I’m headed to Springfield on 55 and what passes me doing about 85 is a Caddie Escalade SUV with an Obama 08 sticker, and let me tell you nothing says AGW like that.

  254. asoka February 8, 2011 at 10:27 am #

    PorC said: “I see no reason to change the sobriquet I have created for you.”
    ======
    I gave you a reason and you choose to ignore it.
    Your calls for civil discourse ring rather hollow.

  255. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    “Now, if some of y’all want to turn CFN into a science class this week – and try to “edumacate”
    the AGW deniers – Well, fine, that’s a better use of JHK’s bandwidth than many other uses to which it has been put.”
    Oh, well as long as you deemed this topic appropriate and all. (What a fucking asshole!)

  256. newworld February 8, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    The old smoking argument for AGW, “Alanfrombigeasy” over at TOD used that crock, then he whined and had me banned because he simply could not get it thru his head that hypothesis and theory are seperated by repeatability.
    Smoking and tobacco were corelated by the nearly exact methods of forensic science, AGW has none of that, none.
    Its not about pollution, some very good laws exist and can be enforced dealing with spewing various amounts of pollutants. It simply is about controlling resource use while obscenely profiting from the impoverishment of the majority of people.

  257. orionoir February 8, 2011 at 10:36 am #

    {What firm would that be? It sounds like Abby Joseph Cohen lingo (Goldman Sachs)}
    oh no, q’s got an ip sniffer! i’ve been found out.
    guilty as charged: abby cohen and i = one and the same.
    ———-
    btw, interesting recent interview in wh the abbmeister drops her pants…
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/magazine/30FOB-Q4-t.html?_r=2

  258. popcine February 8, 2011 at 10:37 am #

    Readers of this column will want to
    see the following, which forecasts sustainable
    human population with respect to depleted oil
    reserves:
    http://www.paulchefurka.ca/Population.html
    Bottom line? 1.2 billion. This is no joke.

  259. ozone February 8, 2011 at 10:37 am #

    “Just like tyranny, it always happens to the “others”.
    And when it happens to you, you can just be “appalled”, incredulous, devastated.” -Patrizia
    =====================
    Yes, it’s strange how that always seems to play out the same way, every time. That’s why I think it’s very important to discuss the roots of denial and the eager willingness to believe transparent falsehoods.
    =========================
    “But let me say, if there are two languages for tyranny, there is just one for the “serfs”:
    VAFFANCULO
    said from the deep of my heart…” -Patrizia
    =========================
    Thanks for making me look that up! ;o)
    I had thought it meant a simple “fuck you”, but it’s [more literally, and as you can see from the construction] “go up your ass”, which is quite a bit more colorful and “visual”.
    Serfs, unite!

  260. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 10:39 am #

    “Not surprisingly she failed to seal the deal, because most of the country was not convinced that she would be a good choice in case something happened to the elderly statesman.”
    Nope. It had nothing to do with “in case something happens”. Otherwise, Obama could never have been elected with Biden as his running mate.
    Though VP’s have become President in our nation’s past, no one truly votes this likelihood. VP choices are purely ideological and McCain was forced to fake to the right.

  261. newworld February 8, 2011 at 10:43 am #

    I want the liberals here to stop servicing the carbon oligarchs and do something useful for humanity.
    Go buy Alan Savory’s book “Holistic Management” and begin the real work of stopping global desertification. He even buys the AGW argument, at least tactically.

  262. abby February 8, 2011 at 10:44 am #

    I am Abby Cohen.

  263. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 10:58 am #

    I am Abraham Lincoln, Please to meet you.

  264. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 11:01 am #

    “I want the liberals here to stop servicing the carbon oligarchs and do something useful for humanity.”
    I agree. As breathing releases carbon dioxide and they seem so concerned with CO2 levels, I invite them to cease breathing. (I mean its for Gaia, for crying out loud.)

  265. ozone February 8, 2011 at 11:03 am #

    “Cash suggests from his “neutral?” perch in Canada, that denial of AGW has become a mark of political/tribal loyalty for millions of American conservatives. I do believe Cash may be right.
    So the far better question is to ask why this is so. ” -PoC
    ===================
    Again…
    Why people believe what they believe (despite all evidence to the contrary) is probably the most germane question of our age. It’s no longer a benign/innocuous position to believe in blatant lies. It’s downright life-and-death dangerous, and we’ll see the results of it very soon.
    I mean, when we’re getting the clouding of information (to the right-wing/plutocratic/corporate bent) on National Petroleum Radio (all for “balance”, of course; riiiiight), we start to see how insidious this whole controlled-media apparatus is. Our taxes and donations are paying for our own mind-bending.
    Hey, let’s do away with the EPA while we’re at it; gets in the way of profits and jobs. ……WHY would someone believe this to be a good idea??

  266. Qshtik February 8, 2011 at 11:07 am #

    And? Because you wanted to “redirect” everyone was supposed to fall in line? What a fucktard.
    ===============
    Sometime in the wee hours – after I was told to shut the fuck up – it appears that notLingLing morphed into yet another entity … Tootsie.
    Either that or Tootsie is a newbie who does a pretty good impression.

  267. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 11:11 am #

    “Why people believe what they believe (despite all evidence to the contrary) is probably the most germane question of our age.”
    Quite true. That is why it is odd that while AGW remains an unproven theory, that supporters of the theory, insist we all get on board and spend trillions of dollars. Why would any thinking person do that? (Remember, I am using the term “thinking person”.)
    P.S. Evidence to the contrary my ass.

  268. ozone February 8, 2011 at 11:14 am #

    “If you want to understand the principle, close your garage door and light your BBQ burner inside, kick back and have a hot dog and beer, watch the game on your spare TV, take a nap….” -LLPete
    ================================
    Ha! Good one, Pete. I highly recommend the experiment to all deniers. (C’mon, it’s perfectly safe, isn’t it?)
    Takes a pound of coal to burn a 100w bulb for 12 hours, or the TeeVee for 4 hours.
    Perspective is important. How much is that outside flood, that’s on all night and day, “costing” in the long run?

  269. ozone February 8, 2011 at 11:16 am #

    You know the answer to your speculation.

  270. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 11:20 am #

    What a moron. You are confusing carbon monoxide with carbon dioxide. Here’s a better test: Remove ALL carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Now go grow something to eat.

  271. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 11:28 am #

    “Takes a pound of coal to burn a 100w bulb for 12 hours, or the TeeVee for 4 hours”
    How much does it take for you to click the keys on your computer?

  272. MarlinFive54 February 8, 2011 at 11:34 am #

    PoC;
    You’ve indicated that you have a science background. Good! Allow me to pick your brain here for a moment with a few questions regarding “Global Warming”
    1)As recently as about 18,000 years ago there was an ice sheet from the Arctic to Long Island. It melted and that caused the landscape, including the river and the Sound itself, that we have today. Why did that ice sheet melt? This would indicate that there have always been periods of cooling and warming.
    2)What caused the ‘Little Ice Age’ in Europe 1350-1830?
    3)Why are we told most of the evidence of Global Warming is in remote, distant places like the Arctic, Antarctic and Greenland, places most of us will never see? Where we actually live it seems to be getting colder.
    4)About 9 years ago Al Gore came here to speak at the local University. (about global warming) So why did he fly in on a chartered 747 and drive here in a fleet of black limos like he was Caeser Augustus himself. I understand he own three large homes and keeps a yacht on the Tennessee river. He also owns his own jet. He tells us to reduce our global footprint. What about Al Gore’s Global footprint?
    5)No rain! Too much rain! Drought! Floods! Heat! Cold! Snow! No Snow! Hurricanes! hail! … it’s all presented as evidence as Global Warming. Is there any weather that is not Global Warming?
    6)In 1860 the Yanghtze River flooded in China, killing 5 million. The spring 1927 Mississippi River floods did more damage than Katrina in 2005, and the worst hurricanes in the Southeast US occurred 1925-1936. What caused them?
    7)Why were there 6000 polar bears in 1969 and 25,000 now?
    8)I keep hearing about sea level rise, swamping coastal cities. But every summer we go to the beach and the sea hasn’t risen one inch. When will the oceans start rising?
    9)Why does the weather now seem like the weather 40 years ago.
    10)I’ve been hearing about global warming for 25 years now. I remember in the 70’s reading about global cooling in Newsweek and kind of freaking out about it. Back in the late 80’s I recall hearing actor Ted Danson (the great environmentalist) say that, if we didn’t change, it would be all over by the year 2000. Nothing changed; we’re still here and its 2011.
    I’m just saying … when are ordinary, nonscientific people like myself going to see some real empirical evidence of the supposed catastrophe bearing down on us? Until that happens the more skeptical amongst us are liable to deduce that this is just another global scam to transfer whatever wealth is left in the West to the grasping and needy 3rd world, via the UN.

  273. ozone February 8, 2011 at 11:38 am #

    Seems that some are mortal a’fear’d of CARBON TAXES.
    Ain’t gonna happen.
    (I think that’s the basis of the denial. In whose interest would such denials be, hmmmm?)

  274. Alexandra February 8, 2011 at 11:41 am #

    (This week’s learn with Alexandra links)
    Re: climate Noam Chomsky’s a key voice of reason for me…







    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    And I like Derrik Jensen’s take too…






    Yoh-you-uber-rightwing-god-fairing-m#ddahf#ck#ng-peteroheads – common boyz – let’s get that Hummer fired up – keep yer mother humping motor running, burn, baby burn… Let’s go, whooooosh, freeedumb… Put it on the floor really… got me humming, keep my motor running… Just as much as yer freaking can… right till the asphalt finally runs out. Then what?
    (Is it just me, or is there ever so slightly something about the above scenario, that strikes one as a tad Lemming like)… ??
    Moving on…
    Now let’s switch back to the landmasses of the entombed ancient pasts, and increasingly fresh water and rapidly food asset depleted…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8294187/Mid-East-contagion-fears-for-Saudi-oil-fields.html
    And this on the dangers of what happens to disillusioned, unemployed, hungry non-distracted youth masses…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/globalbusiness/8296987/IMF-raises-spectre-of-civil-wars-as-global-inequalities-worsen.html
    So while at sea, surfing up-n-down those deep-blue rollers, Main & No.1 powered… i’ll be iPoddied into this with a wee smile breaking across my lips… fishing lines drifting off the back…

    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    If only the bulk of HFCS/Trans Fat blobby powered UK/US youth wasn’t so benignly facebook,twitter-twatterilly and Wii technology-fixated…
    What a different place this might one week be?

  275. asoka February 8, 2011 at 11:42 am #

    Tootsie said: “Evidence to the contrary my ass.”
    ============
    Anthropocentric-causation of global warming has been proven. Researchers have found the evidence in ice core studies that it is human activity causing global warming.
    New evidence suggests that concentrations of CO2 started rising about 8,000 years ago. Some 3,000 years later the same thing happened to methane, another heat-trapping gas.
    What explains those increases? Human activities tied to farming — primarily agricultural deforestation and crop irrigation. Those activities added the extra CO2 and methane to the atmosphere.
    These human endeavors explained both the reversals (in CO2 and methane) in gas trends from previous ice cores. The ice core data shows 100,000 years of a regular pattern of rises and falls before humans started farming. With farming the increases in CO2 started and the data show ongoing increases right up to the start of the industrial era.
    Since then, modern technological innovations have brought about even faster rises in greenhouse gas concentrations.
    Cores of ice drilled in the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets have provided valuable evidence about the earth’s past climate, including changes in the concentrations of the greenhouse gases.
    It’s the humans that did it.

  276. Cash February 8, 2011 at 11:46 am #

    Whether 8,000 were murdered doesn’t matter. It could’ve been 2,000 or 10,000 or zero. The Canuck General in charge of Sarajevo during the civil war festivities doubts the massacre ever happened. What matters is what everyone THINKS happened.
    WRT your own Civil War, I’ll give you my own take on it as an foreign observer. You say it is hailed as a Great War and therefore Americans are being hypocritical about the Yugoslav fighting. I don’t think so. IMO you’re being politically practical.
    I’ve been to Gettysburg and it is revered as sacred ground. Why so? Well for one thing thousands of men fought, suffered and died there for causes greater than themselves.
    But the Confederacy was fighting for their own country and let’s be blunt, part of that was the institution of slavery. In effect The Confederate cause has been put on a moral plane and on a historical platform equal to that of the Union side even with slavery as part of the package.
    So why the equivalency? Because you had to re-unite the country psychologically. And this was a difficult thing but the war was ruinous, you could not afford a resumption of fighting and you could not afford two halves of the country pitted against one another. So to get past the animosity ALL the men that took part were/are revered as heroes, the confederate side was/is given respect, General Lee is hailed as a great man and a great leader.
    I think that this approach worked for a long time. But now look at how the country divided up in the past thirty years. Now you have a Red State vs Blue State split that bears more than a passing resemblance to the old Confederacy vs Union split of 150 years ago. I don’t think I’m the only one that sees this.
    Or is this divide just an indication that a continent sized country like the US with a population of 300 million can’t be effectively governed from one national capital, that there’s too much of a divergence of economic and cultural interests between states and regions?
    JFK said ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. But does a country exist to serve the interests of its citizens or is it the other way around?
    I’d be interested in hearing from y’all in the US on this whether you’re Johnny Reb or Billy Yank at heart. Was it the Civil War or the War Between the States? Is the Red State/Blue State divide a replay of 1861-1865?
    Procon, you’re a good ole southern boy aren’t you? How do you see it?

  277. myrtlemay February 8, 2011 at 12:03 pm #

    I’m thinking that “tootsie” would benefit greatly from an old fashioned bare-butt spanking, but his mom is too busy holding down three jobs supporting his unemployed ass in order to do this. “Tootsie” might have benefited from having had a father or father figure in his life, rather than a series of anonymous sperm donors in the back of a ’73 van. Just a thought.

  278. BICO-2 February 8, 2011 at 12:07 pm #

    Tee Jay, first off: I love your Grannie’s Favorites!
    Second: stick with JHK’s nonfiction books. The Long Emergency is the one I like best. Stay far away from his fiction.

  279. lbendet February 8, 2011 at 12:09 pm #

    Tootsie,
    Didn’t quite mean the line of succession literally (like in case of death) I think I really meant it to be more symbolic, as if Pallin could really be a contender for President. She may be with her constituency, but the center is not convinced as I said in the post in November in the case that SP was the nominee you would know:
    The plutocracy is making a statement that no seasoned statesman need apply. They will be running things directly through the White House from now on, using their low information president of the free world as puppet.

  280. montsegur February 8, 2011 at 12:14 pm #

    Cash asked:”Is the Red State/Blue State divide a replay of 1861-1865?”
    ======================
    In some ways. My opinion — the real issue in the CW was a question of how much power the federal government was to have at the expense of the state governments. Slavery was a popular emotional flash-point, and insofar as there is almost always an economic background to wars, the economic implications of slavery being limited implied a potentially declining standard of living that the south did not want to face.
    There is a lot of chatter today about the federal government being too involved in the lives of citizens. Well, it certainly is involved, but that involvement also produces a significant amount of useful services and orderly government, something that people who haven’t lived in less orderly lands may take for granted. As an example, the interstate highway system is well designed for national travel; I doubt it would that well suited to it had each state had complete control as to which highways were built, the standards with which they were built, etc. Europe has fine highways, but one look at a map will indicate that their systems are patched together, and that in many cases, the number of highways in border regions decrease in order to control the number of entry points.
    At least part of the red/blue divide seems to hinge upon the Christian religion and what its role, if any, should be in government. That part doesn’t match up to CW issues as far as I can tell.
    I also think that characterizing states as red or blue is simplistic. I’d guess that more than a few states are mixes of both or even checker-boarded by counties — leading one to wonder that if violence breaks out, would “political cleansing” ensue in contested regions supplemented by a sort of religious crusading?
    There are economic issues stirring the national pot today, but as far as I can see, they cross the red/blue divide — while still serving to keep everyone’s temper simmering just because the country is not economically healthy and just about everyone realizes it.
    Cheers

  281. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 12:21 pm #

    “Anthropocentric-causation of global warming has been proven. Researchers have found the evidence in ice core studies that it is human activity causing global warming.”
    Hog wash. For as many reasons that you sight as being attributed to man, there are a plethora of scientists who are ready to assign other causes. Vulcanism, sun spot activity, meteor collisions, axial /magnetic shifts are just some of the reasons cited.
    Anthropocentric causation is a THEORY. It may be proven at some later date but until more regimented, documented science can make the case, it will remain a theory.
    Now shut up because it is not settled and you saying it is merely makes you a denier.

  282. cunning runt February 8, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    I will have to concur with Bico. Stay away from the fiction. If it’s at the library you might have some fun with it, but I wouldn’t buy it. The Long Emergency is an informative read. I read World Made By Hand but found it disappointing.

  283. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 12:24 pm #

    “I’m thinking that “tootsie” would benefit greatly from an old fashioned bare-butt spanking…”
    Kinky, baby. I might let you administer the spanking but you would have to send a picture first. I’m guessing it probably won’t happen because If you look anything like you think, I’m picturing some kind of Frankensteinish amalgamation of sucking oozing sores.

  284. Cash February 8, 2011 at 12:24 pm #

    Vlad, one other issue. I read a while back (I wish I could remember my sources) that the agricultural revolution 10,000 years ago, with it’s burning of forests to clear land for cultivation and settlement and the consequent releasing of CO2 into the air, was what forestalled a resumption of the glacial cycle.
    The theory goes something like this: maximum global warmth happened around 12,000 years ago. After that time, the earth started on its cooling cycle which would have inexorably resulted in a re-expansion of glacial ice. But this process was subverted by human activity. There was an ice cap in central Quebec until about 5,000 BC which was finally melted away by this AGW.
    The issue is this: if we hadn’t done what we had done with our agricultural and industrial processes would we now otherwise be in the middle of a period of reglaciation?
    So do we prefer global warming with its attendant rise in water levels and other changes which we cannot possibly forecast with any pretence of accuracy? What if part of the package was a change in weather patterns that resulted in desertification of North American prairies but the reforestation of the Sahara and its transformation from dry, hot as Hades desert into a wet, agricultural paradise?
    Or do we prefer to let the normal glacial cycles take their course? We have a picture of what happened in past glacial periods. So do we prefer that the planet be a cold, dry place with massive continent sized glaciers, do we want to turn bread baskets like the North American prairies and the Ukraine into howling ice sheets or subarctic tundra? Will we accept with equanimity the resultant mass starvation and mass migration of people to more temperate places?
    I don’t think anyone has any real idea what would happen if AGW were to continue. It could be as disastrous as re-glaciation. Or not. I think we have to be careful of scientists that pretend to have all the answers on this. One climate change guru up here (David Suzuki) wanted to throw in jail govt leaders that refuse to act on what he saw as the mortal threat of AGW. It’s that kind of jackassery that throws the debate into disrepute ie if you disagree with him you go to jail. Foul stuff.

  285. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown February 8, 2011 at 12:24 pm #

    Thanks for those links.

  286. Buck Stud February 8, 2011 at 12:32 pm #

    McCain was never able to excite much of anyone in the GOP; it was an obligatory nomination, a years of service merit award along the same vein as Bob Dole’s nomination.
    So they needed someone to ignite the passion, and thaw the juices. Someone that could foam up some Rush Limbaugh drool into the mouths of the listless and some Michael Savage jism to lubricate the fanaticism of the zealot.
    Enter the VP selection.
    Like elephants in heat, the base and their figurehead had a couple of frenetic and orgiastic months of delusional pleasure. And like two vacuous teenagers, they realized they had nothing to say after the deed. In fact, it was better not to speak at all.

  287. wagelaborer February 8, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    “My guess is he tried to fill her little head with his Neoconservative rubbish and she couldn’t retain it.”
    That’s pretty funny, L.
    Reminds me of what someone asked during the Bush reign- “Why does he explain things to us like we’re 6th grade idiots?”
    Someone replied, “Because that’s how it’s explained to him”

  288. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

    “And like two vacuous teenagers, they realized they had nothing to say after the deed. In fact, it was better not to speak at all.”
    Yeah but the reason that they are now afraid to speak is that the story continues. Palin has gone on to have substantial influence. Like her or not she has turned into a money generating machine for both the Republican Party and candidates who aligned with the Tea Party.
    Would I, personally vote for Palin? I doubt it. But I offer this thought: Could she possibly fuck things up any worse than our current, fearless leader? I think fucking not.

  289. ozone February 8, 2011 at 12:43 pm #

    So, it WAS all about the twisted [and severely repressed] libidinous imperatives of authoritarian brownshirt slaves! ;o)
    Someone on these very pages thought SP was good wankin’ material. What did those fantasies involve? Black latex, SS uniforms and glasses?
    Never mind, I don’t really want to know… (gonna hear about it anyway, I suppose.)

  290. CaptSpaulding February 8, 2011 at 12:44 pm #

    I would never presume to order anyone to do anything. The position of Sgt at Arms can stay open. I’m just giving an opinion. I find the discourse here to be invigorating. When the pissant dropped out for awhile a few weeks ago, this became a fascinating place to visit. I just hate to see someone shit in the punch bowl and cheapen the content of an otherwise interesting place. You know that you would not allow the pissant to hang around you or your friends, so why allow him to do so here? And yes, taking him out back & making him cry like the little bitch he is would be satisfying but pointless, since those of his ilk are incapable of change.

  291. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 12:50 pm #

    “Reminds me of what someone asked during the Bush reign- “Why does he explain things to us like we’re 6th grade idiots?”
    Shoe fits Wage, velcro it up. (Seeing as tying it is out of the question.)

  292. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 12:53 pm #

    “And yes, taking him out back & making him cry like the little bitch he is would be satisfying but pointless…”
    Of course you being the big, bad, macho-man would be capable of such an act? I mean even if your mommy was helping you out? Sure you would ;.)

  293. wagelaborer February 8, 2011 at 12:54 pm #

    There are two different problems being squished into one debate, prog.
    One is global warming.
    The other is cap and trade.
    Personally, I think that the earth is warming, because most scientists are agreed on this.
    However, cap and trade is a scam by Wall Street to profit from global warming, and I am against it.
    Many right wingers believe that if you accept global warming, you must accept cap and trade.
    This is not true.
    It’s like the “health care” bill.
    Many liberals support the bill, because they believe that everyone should have health care.
    This is not the point of the bill. The point is to deliver 43 million more customers, by force, to the insurance companies.
    I believe in health care for everyone. This is why I’m against Obamacare.
    I believe that we should stop polluting the Earth. That’s why I’m against cap and trade.
    This liberal vs conservative lineup, as Cash says, is to get us fighting over that which is presented to us by the ruling class, instead of fighting for what would help us.

  294. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 12:56 pm #

    “I just hate to see someone shit in the punch bowl and cheapen the content of an otherwise interesting place. ”
    If someone shits in the punch bowl and you keep coming back to the punch bowl…you must like the punch…MORON.

  295. wagelaborer February 8, 2011 at 12:56 pm #

    Hey, tootsie, how do you re-register so fast?
    I got kicked off of Common Dreams after Obama’s election, and am unable to get back on.
    Please tell me the secret.

  296. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 1:01 pm #

    “Personally, I think that the earth is warming, because most scientists are agreed on this.”
    This is the same moronic statement that is made over and over again. No one is questioning that the earth is warming. What is being questioned is causation.
    “Many right wingers believe that if you accept global warming, you must accept cap and trade.”
    Obviously not, per above recognition of warming.
    “I believe that we should stop polluting the Earth. That’s why I’m against cap and trade.”
    Since when is carbon monoxide pollution? (And I don’t give a shit how the EPA wants to designate it.)

  297. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    “Murdoch and News Corp Aligning with Muslim Brotherhood”
    Now here’s a funny thought for you LARWBD –
    (offered on a discussion thread that could use a sense of humor from time to time!)
    – If Rupert Murdoch can do do *NEWS* and the Muslim Brotherhood, what he has done to *NEWS* and politics in the US –
    It won’t be long before those guys stop doing Jihad for Virgins –
    And begin to praise Allah and the pork-free menu at McDonalds. May Allah (allah?) Bless Capitalism!
    hah!

  298. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    “Please tell me the secret.”
    THE secret? OK, that man you always thought was your father? He’s your older brother. And you Mom? She’s your sister.

  299. wagelaborer February 8, 2011 at 1:05 pm #

    See, L, you need to be a conspiracy theorist.
    Personally, I believe that the ruling class wanted Team B to be in the White House, because the natives were getting restless with Team A.
    So they put up a “Black” man to run for Team B, so that millions of liberals could vote for him and feel good, and the Black vote was pretty much assured.
    Against him, they teamed a man that the Far Right hated, with an imbecile woman that anyone with brains hates.
    How could it fail?
    And it didn’t. To this day, there are “liberals” who defend Obama for doing the same things that they were up in arms about when Bush did them.
    i.e., loss of civil liberties, claim by Obama that he can assassinate Americans of his choice, increased drone attacks, widening of the wars of Empire, continuation of renditions and imprisonment without charges or trials, opening up off-shore drilling, attacking Social Security, the Health Care bill, which was a Republican bill in the 90s, tax cuts for the wealthy, etc., etc., etc.
    This was a very successful bait and switch.

  300. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 1:09 pm #

    So there is no difference between Bush and Obama? You really are an idiot aren’t you?

  301. jackieblue2u February 8, 2011 at 1:17 pm #

    I am reading ONE HUNDRED YEARS OF SOLITUDE, just started, and I am enjoying his writing style so I will finish it.
    Thank You (I can’t remember who You are) that recommended it !) I got it at the Library !
    It’s going to be a fast read, it’s easy to read also.

  302. Cash February 8, 2011 at 1:19 pm #

    Just out curiosity what did you say to get kicked off Common Dreams?
    Totally agree about Obama. Successful bait and switch. All that time and money pissed away for the presidential election and what the hell for? Hope? Nope. Change? Bullshit. It’s business as usual.
    In the 1990s in Canada we had a political party called Reform. One of the party planks was to give citizens the right of recall. If a Member of Parliament (like one of your congressmen) including the Prime Minister (who is also a Member of Parliament) pissed off their consituents enough they could circulate a petition to have the Member recalled and to re-do the election in that particular riding (like a congressional district). That way there’s a chance to get rid of someone that didn’t live up to their billing.
    You guys should have something similar for congressmen and senators and the president. When there’s such an obvious disconnect between election rhetoric and governing reality there has to be a reckoning and it can’t wait until the next election.

  303. wagelaborer February 8, 2011 at 1:24 pm #

    For instance, yesterday Obama gave a speech to the Chamber of Commerce in which he promised to lower their taxes, roll back regulations and open new markets for them.
    Corporations paid 35% of government expenses in the 50s. Now they pay 6%, and Obama is going to decrease their taxes?
    Already, corporations like Exxon and General Electric not only post record profits and pay no taxes, but we, the little people, pay for REBATES for them!
    I think that if Bush proposed these things, liberals would be up in arms.
    But when the Black man does it, liberals keep quiet. Or worse, defend it.

  304. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 1:32 pm #

    There are 4+/- BIG IDEAS necessary to keep the Limbaugh/Cheeny vision of America rolling along.
    One – is denial of human impact on climate.
    Two – is an assumption of FOREVER unlimited energy sources if we could just drill, baby, drill – drill here, drill now, etc.
    Three – is an assumption that the American Dream is ONLY about big cars and unlimited lots of cheap *stuff.*
    Four – is the idea that oil, coal, farmland etc, etc, etc – belongs to the present generation of middle and upper class Americans – and that our children and The Future have no stake in how these resources are used and abused – on the Earth, by us now.
    I can understand why someone would buy into #1 2, and 3 – because he feels himself threatened by forces outside of his control.
    I’ll never understand how someone can be so selfish and unthinking as to buy into number 4.
    We have at least a couple of posters who seem to BELIEVE 1,2,and 3. Maybe one of them can explain what level of thinking makes him believe #4.

  305. asoka February 8, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

    notmommy, OEO, lingling, tootsie, notOEO, etc.
    … can you cite any peer-reviewed literature showing data proving global warming is not being caused by humans? Can you cite ANY EVIDENCE?
    AGW is settled science.
    The IPCC Working Group II Fourth Assessment Report found, with very high confidence, that observational evidence from all continents and most oceans shows that many natural systems are being affected by regional climate changes, particularly temperature increases.
    The spatial coherence of temperature trends across the globe have been analyzed, using more than 3,000 years of climate model simulation data. The prevalence of observed statistically significant changes in physical and biological systems is consistent with anthropogenic warming in every continent.
    The conclusion is that anthropogenic climate change is having a discernible effect on physical and biological systems at the global scale.
    SOURCE: Rosenzweig, C. et al.(2008). Attributing physical and biological impacts to anthropogenic climate change. Nature, 453(7193), 353-357. doi:10.1038/nature06937
    PS Nature is a respected and peer-reviewed scientific publication. Please cite your sources.

  306. ozone February 8, 2011 at 1:37 pm #

    “To this day, there are “liberals” who defend Obama for doing the same things that they were up in arms about when Bush did them.
    i.e., loss of civil liberties, claim by Obama that he can assassinate Americans of his choice, increased drone attacks, widening of the wars of Empire, continuation of renditions and imprisonment without charges or trials, opening up off-shore drilling, attacking Social Security, the Health Care bill, which was a Republican bill in the 90s, tax cuts for the wealthy, etc., etc., etc.
    This was a very successful bait and switch.” -Wage
    =================================
    AGAIN, why did people believe they were going to get “change”, when the glaring evidence of who the major campaign contributors were suggested that a hard fucking was in store, instead?
    (It really was very easy to find this out; why didn’t “the voters” want to know?)

  307. ozone February 8, 2011 at 1:38 pm #

    (By “the voters”, I meant the “hope-n-changer” voters.)

  308. ozone February 8, 2011 at 1:45 pm #

    Thanks for addressing that.
    Underlying beliefs are supposed to be about self-interest. If those beliefs point to EXTINCTION…. goooooood luck widdat.

  309. lbendet February 8, 2011 at 1:49 pm #

    Wage,
    I’ve often said on this blog that it’s a bait and switch operation, since both parties have gone down the same lane. Thewy love the show poney elections so they can say to the world that we’re a democracy.See the tribe has spoken and they elected an African American!
    In a 11/7 post I called Game, Set and Match:
    I like to refer to our political gyrations as game, set and match, because in evidence we see a clear movement toward the same goals by both parties. It’s like a game where someone sets up a shot and then the others on the team follows it through. (more like volleyball than tennis but I like the reference anyway).
    They have a philosophical context or ideology and they are moving it forward with every president we’ve had since Nixon. Each step of the way has opened us up to what we’re now experiencing. If it looks like they’re fumbling its because they want you to believe that.
    In the meantime they have set up the US hegemony in the military and financial arena. I always mention Milton Friedman by name and the Chicago School of business because I think anything else is too general. If you ever read the “Shock Doctrine” you will know how they destroy the economies in other countries and feed off the public domain in the process of privatization.
    Now they’re doing it here, so just observe their moves and understand their motives. Of course they destroyed our economy by putting it into a counter intuitive mode. From the greatest creditor nation with a demand-side economy to the greatest debtor nation with a supply side economy.
    I was so much smarter then-could be that I’m trying to work on a book cover while blogging. Never works to do two things at a time–oh well.

  310. asoka February 8, 2011 at 1:49 pm #

    AGAIN, why did people believe they were going to get “change”
    =========
    [sarcasm on]
    Yeah, why do people think there is any difference between the parties and the candidates? If McCain had been elected, he would have supported elimintating DADT, like Obama did.
    And McCain would have signed off on the Affordable Care Act, just like Obama.
    And McCain would have created more jobs than Obama has in his first two years, right?
    McCain would have been more bipartisan, right?
    So, Red/Blue, doesn’t matter at all, right?
    [sarcasm off]
    But, seriously, who cares about gays being able to serve their country anyway?
    Who cares about expanding medical care?
    Who cares about job creation?
    Bipartisan, bismartisan… All them politicians are the same,right?
    So why does FOX only promote one party? They must see differences we don’t. They must see change.

  311. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 1:49 pm #

    Nice catch, Q!
    “Sometime in the wee hours – after I was told to shut the fuck up – it appears that notLingLing morphed into yet another entity … Tootsie.
    Either that or Tootsie is a newbie who does a pretty good impression.”-
    – Q –
    So thanks to Q for helping to keep CFN in line on more than grammar and spelling.
    ————
    I don’t think that the notmommy/zing/ling/jim/tootsie GETS IT that JHK is banning him for vile language and not for vile ideas.
    So let me ask the Captain, upthread. Is it better to ignore a “troll” or is it better to gently poke at said “troll” until his head explodes into such a vile stream of cursing, invective, and insult – that the god of this particular website – JHK – finally bans the “troll” in question.
    I’ve demonstrated that my “ignoring” skills are weak and undeveloped as yet. But I am always open to suggestion.

  312. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 2:03 pm #

    Jackie it was I under a slightly different handle. Glad you are enjoying it.

  313. jackieblue2u February 8, 2011 at 2:09 pm #

    “Actually it isn’t. It was found to be unconstitutional in its entirety. Just because Obama’s justice has for now decided to ignore the ruling does not make it go away. And at the LEAST whoever named this turkey “The Affordable Care Act” should be sued for false advertising. There is absolutely NOTHING affordable about this monstrosity.”
    Fucking A that is SO true. not sure where the F ‘in A came from. I can swear also as good as any.
    No one I know can afford this.
    AND the Rich people I know bitch about things MORE than the poor people I know.
    Whatever that means.
    Maybe ‘they’ ARE dividing and ‘Conquering’ by creating this situation that WE pay for in more ways than one.

  314. ozone February 8, 2011 at 2:10 pm #

    Whoa, whoa, whoa; take it easy there, A.
    I never indicated that non-support of “one side”, meant I supported “the second side”. It’s this false dualism that has us in such trouble. (This is how the SHOW has been managed, as Ibendet says.)
    Is there any other group to “support” besides either of the two sides of the same coin? Of course; but the managers have [most] folks convinced that you’re wasting “your one chance to do your civic doooty”. That’s the kind of horseshit that’s been used to keep us divided and confused for a long while.
    (And, civic doooty extends a fur piece beyond voting every 2 years, as I’m sure you know. Choir-preachin’ there.)

  315. BICO-2 February 8, 2011 at 2:11 pm #

    “No one I know can afford this.” How do I find out how much my rates will go up?

  316. lbendet February 8, 2011 at 2:12 pm #

    progressorconserve ,
    Ignore is my motto. If an abusive blogger keeps re-registering under a new name what good is banning that person?
    If you ignore they loose steam. There’s nothing to fight against and they need the fight.
    ———–
    Asoka,
    There are cultural differences between the two parties and some policy differences as well. It’s not that it makes no difference who you vote for, but the end result will be subtle. Not what you thought you wanted because once you vote, you no longer influence. You just don’t have the clout to do so. There’s still a Dem. Rep. contest, but its the corporations and their lobbyists who get what they want in the end.

  317. Cash February 8, 2011 at 2:13 pm #

    Pro when it comes to absurdities that serve as tribal signifiers there’s one thing that all Americans can buy into and that’s that the 9/11 terrorists came over the border from Canada.
    Janet Napolitano believes it and she’s your chief of Homeland Security. So does John McCain. I don’t know about Sarah Palin but it wouldn’t surprise me. Obama just met our Prime Minister on the issue of border security. I wonder if it came up in discussions. If I could only be a fly on the wall in the Oval office. I would give it even odds that Obama believes it too. That it’s nonsense doesn’t matter. That it’s as fictitious as the French resistance in WW2 is besides the point.
    Oh and Joe Lieberman is scared stiff about the US-Canada border.
    So we are your biggest threat. Believe it. It’s the American thing to do.
    Denial of obvious documented fact makes you one of the tribe. It’s part of showing tribal loyalty. So does spouting obvious lies. It’s even better if it’s done in public in front of a big audience and if the spouter is and looks acutely embarrassed and uncomfortable. Why so? That way everyone can see you are suffering for the cause, for the common identity. There will be great celebration and much applause. And well deserved too. Back slapping and well wishing will follow.
    So here’s one thing that rock ribbed Americans everywhere can agree on and join together. Blame Canada for 9/11. OK group hug. It’s heart warming to see the great American family united.
    And I’m not criticizing. I’m just making an observation. We have similar nonsense up here.

  318. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 2:16 pm #

    “One – is denial of human impact on climate.”
    Still an unproven THEORY
    “Two – is an assumption of FOREVER unlimited energy sources if we could just drill, baby, drill – drill here, drill now, etc.”
    I don’t think anyone believes that. It is a fairly good assumption that even the sun, will someday burn out.
    “Three – is an assumption that the American Dream is ONLY about big cars and unlimited lots of cheap *stuff.*”
    I don’t know of a single person that attributes the American Dream to this description.
    “Four – is the idea that oil, coal, farmland etc, etc, etc – belongs to the present generation of middle and upper class Americans – and that our children and The Future have no stake in how these resources are used and abused – on the Earth, by us now.”
    What “The Future” are you talking about? Haven’t you heard? Its been cancelled due to AGW.

  319. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 2:19 pm #

    ” Can you cite ANY EVIDENCE?”
    I did earlier. Go back and find it. I will cite no more as it doesn’t matter.

  320. jackieblue2u February 8, 2011 at 2:20 pm #

    I don’t want to know what Camp I am in. The Slow Camp I think.
    Pro Con I personally enjoy your posts. You are in MY ‘good’ Camp.
    One thing I figured out long ago was that People Really Don’t Know who ‘you’ are. And that applies even more when on the Internet. Well we KNOW who the blatant jerkoffs’ are ! You know who you are also !
    Not very ladylike, sorry !
    People have their perceptions of others’ and very very few are even close to being accurate, IMHO.
    It upsets me when people really put people down on here, not the swearing, that doesn’t bother me, it I am capable myself of that.
    It’s like Rage and they give and take it personally.
    It’s hard not to sometimes.
    Most have Buttons, and Some know How to push them, on purpose.
    Sometimes I find it amusing.
    But it’s really not.

  321. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 2:20 pm #

    Marlin =
    That’s a good set of guestions. We would need a couple of climatologists, a torrent of ASCII, and a couple of days to do justice to all of them.
    And I am not a climatologist, I am a science generalist – with a long detour into biology.
    But basically, your # 1,2,3,5,6,7,9, and 10 would be answered with something along the following lines of logic:
    – The planet HAS heated up, on average, for the past century – this is fact, not really open to challenge. Established science says that much of this increase in temperature is due to increasing levels of atmospheric CO2 due to human burning of fossil fuels.
    – And as the global climate system increases in energy (heat) we should expect to see an increase in extremes of heat or cold and their effects. These affects may, be rain, snow, drought, or polar bears – visible over the short (60 year?) time span of observations of a single human life.
    And that these extremes are to be expected, even though the overall trend in temperature is inexorably up.
    I’ll take a shot at your #4 and # 9 sometime later, if another poster doesn’t beat me to it.
    And Marlin, good questions – seriously.
    It’s good to have a chance to dialog without Mr. Limbaugh, Mr. Gore, or whomever – being accused of yelling over the top of our dialog.
    Now, if we can get some people on CFN who know some real science and/or who can see both sides of the issue(s), it just might be that we could advance the level of dialog here, and not impede it. hehe
    Ozone and SNAFU – good stuff, guys! Y’all just remember we need some honest intelligent folks like Mr. Marlin here, on CFN – if we’re gonna get anywhere with understanding and moving ahead.

  322. jackieblue2u February 8, 2011 at 2:24 pm #

    Maybe he just simply Changed His Mind ?

  323. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 2:24 pm #

    “I don’t think that the notmommy/zing/ling/jim/tootsie GETS IT that JHK is banning him for vile language and not for vile ideas.”
    I don’t think you get it. I have not used a single word (excepting fucktard and Jim, has used the first half of that term) ) that Jim or you or just about any other poster on the site has used. Period.

  324. ozone February 8, 2011 at 2:28 pm #

    Thanks, Cash,
    Now we’re gettin’ down to the real nitty-gritty.

  325. jackieblue2u February 8, 2011 at 2:38 pm #

    I once went out for 1 week on a fishing boat from Moss Landing.
    Awesome being out there, OUT THERE. I mean it’s another World. Well another Reality, whatever.
    Nothing Like Being Fluid, being in motion, even the fact that I was seasick almost the whole time (I had made *special* tea for that that helped.
    I remember when we would be close to the Wharf and how it felt so much different, I am having a hard time finding the word to describe it.
    I preferred being on the Water.
    I luv to swim, underwater ! Freedive that is.
    I am not a sailor. too white for all that sun. I would be if I could be.
    Anyway, it does give you a whole other Perspective.
    I never forgot this and it was like 1980 ish.

  326. BICO-2 February 8, 2011 at 2:39 pm #

    But seriously, how can one make the statement that they can’t afford it, if no cost is given?

  327. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 2:40 pm #

    “don’t think you get it. I have not used a single word (excepting fucktard and Jim, has used the first half of that term) ) that Jim or you or just about any other poster on the site has used.”
    -notTootsie-
    Actually I keep looking through your torrents of insults to see if there is some kernel of Truth in there that CFN needs to hear.
    But I don’t look as closely as I used to because of the nastiness associated with notMommy/Ling/Jim/Tza/ETC – and because you use the same words, typing style, and language pattern throughout – I’ve got to assume you are the same human being behind all this invective from all these different handles.
    You try to personally degrade anyone with whom you disagree.
    That’s unhelpful and uselessly nasty.
    I’m guessing that’s why you keep getting banned.
    PoC
    PS I also expect JHK enjoys that small power he has over disruptive forces.
    And JHK may enjoy the self-regulated ClusterFucking nature of this place.
    But what do I know. Time to back up the thread to the old flash drive again?

  328. wagelaborer February 8, 2011 at 2:47 pm #

    Well, I don’t exactly know, Cash. They didn’t tell me. I just got a notice that I couldn’t get on.
    But a whole bunch of anti-Obama people got kicked off at the same time.
    Weird, cause we spent the entire election cycle criticizing Obama (from the left), and only got kicked off after the election.
    Some are back on.
    Some aren’t. (Probably the ones like me, who aren’t that computer literate).

  329. wagelaborer February 8, 2011 at 3:03 pm #

    I read a great book by Kevin Phillips called “The Cousin’s Wars”.
    He’d take issue with your assertion that religion was not involved.
    Check it out. (Although he assumes that readers have a historical background that I don’t have, so it is challenging reading).
    http://www.amazon.com/Cousins-Wars-Religion-Politics-Anglo-America/dp/0465013708

  330. wagelaborer February 8, 2011 at 3:11 pm #

    Well, OK then.
    I like your analogy and I totally agree with you.
    You’re a conspiracy theorist after all!

  331. jackieblue2u February 8, 2011 at 3:11 pm #

    “Now if we can mostly manage to discourage the insults and invective – we may actually get somewhere.”
    “If we can get JHK to keep the site up and running.”
    PoC
    Yes 2 excellent posts.
    I see it the same way.
    I took a test on the inet.
    It told me where I stand politically, according to this test anyway.
    I think it was Conservative Libertarian.
    Not sure. I like what pro con writes, and asoka,
    and I think they are on opposite camps. go figure.
    Maybe they are on the same page. I don’t THINK as well as they do, that is for sure. My brain is on overload, but I do enjoy and try to learn here.
    I hope JHK keeps this site up also.
    shit no one lives forever.
    I would miss some of you, you know who you are haha, and this site if it wasn’t here.
    I would spend more time on Tripps page. Wonder where he’s been ? waiting for the dust to settle before he posts maybe.
    I was enjoying the health care debate here, but yes it has little to nothing to do with peak oil.
    It’s hard to stay on topic. I will try harder.
    time to run errands. literally run, cuz crashed car the other day. going to shop. so see THAT has alot to do with Peak Oil. I am not going to get a Rental Car, I am going to go without a car for a few days ! So glad that I am able.

  332. newworld February 8, 2011 at 3:25 pm #

    Forget the phrophetic tactic with AGW there has been no discernable trend in any direction, with any degree of scientific certainty. Never mind temp probe calibration and location issues.
    Besides the Icelandic volcano is about to explode and send us to 500ppm and certain doom, and to top it off no one will buy any carbon credits to offset it.
    As for greenhouse effect, I celebrate it since I work out in the cold a night with clouds (water vapor)is generally a warmer night.

  333. asoka February 8, 2011 at 3:26 pm #

    lbendet said: “There’s still a Dem. Rep. contest, but its the corporations and their lobbyists who get what they want in the end.”
    =====
    I am overjoyed the corporations and lobbyists decided they wanted DADT to end so gays and lesbians can serve openly in the armed forces.
    At least that is what I conclude from your position.

  334. asoka February 8, 2011 at 3:29 pm #

    I looked.
    You did not cite any credible scientific evidence based on research done by experts in the area of climate science.
    That would be because there is none.

  335. wagelaborer February 8, 2011 at 3:36 pm #

    Here’s a guy spouting lies.
    Is he uncomfortable or smug? Hard for me to tell.
    But watch the entire 6 minutes to see how obvious it is that he’s lying.






  336. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 3:38 pm #

    Alrighty NewWorld –
    Let’s say I was to go ahead and agree with you 100% concerning AGW.
    What comes next?
    What about trying to slow down our use of oil and coal so our kids and grandkids will still have of the stuff left? Because they may find the prices a whole lot higher than we do now. And they may have some better uses for it, too.
    Are any of those ideas worth thinking about?

  337. asoka February 8, 2011 at 3:40 pm #

    ProCon said: “Now, if we can get some people on CFN who know some real science”
    =======
    I know you are ignoring me ProCon, and that is your right. But for the benefit of others who are interested in a dialog with me on AGW I would note the following:
    I have cited ice core studies going back 20,000 years.
    I have cited “real scientists” (climate scientists, to be specific) who have published in the journal NATURE.
    I have asked politely for any scientific evidence that global warming is not human-caused.
    Any “evidence” against AGW that I have seen is from paid industry shills, or is opinion from popular magazines, or editorials, or articles from scientists outside the field of climate science.
    The humans did it. The evidence for AGW is settled science. I’m still waiting to hear otherwise from a credible source that provides actual research data.
    So far… crickets.

  338. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 3:48 pm #

    Initially, you said:
    “I don’t think that the notmommy/zing/ling/jim/tootsie GETS IT that JHK is banning him for vile language and not for vile ideas.
    Now you say:
    “You try to personally degrade anyone with whom you disagree.
    That’s unhelpful and uselessly nasty.
    I’m guessing that’s why you keep getting banned.”
    Personally degrading someone is an “idea.” It is not vile language. This is but one more example of you not knowing what the fuck you are talking about.
    Furthermore. I do not personally degrade “anyone” with whom I disagree. I will degrade liars (and on this site there are numerous liars) and fucktards that are either stupid by birth or choice and insist on sharing their stupidity. Now where would you fall on my “degrade” list?

  339. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 3:53 pm #

    Lord ‘o Mercy Cash!
    Regarding US politicians making noises about securing the Canadian border because that’s where the terrorists came from!?!
    You may be putting yourself in yet another conspiracist camp – another one I’ve been unaware of until just now. hah!
    Not that I doubt your analysis at all, our politicos have certainly done worse. But I have not heard any of that from the US *medias* that I pay attention to.
    If you can find one, send me a video link of one of our mainstream US guys saying something about that – and I’ll try to give us the UScentric analysis.
    One idea could be that they are using the Canadian border for “practice” (from a practical and especially a political perspective), since our Northern border is not generally an issue of contentious debate in the US. We do know that the Southern Border security issue can get quite contentious in a hurry.
    Just musing. Try to keep holding our feet to the fire, ya’ big ol’ Canuck, you. I for one appreciate it a whole lot.
    BTW, would that term directed to you in person from me as an American be considered disrespectful?
    How about in a bar full of Canucks?
    – carrying knives? – on a dark and stormy night?

  340. BICO-2 February 8, 2011 at 3:56 pm #

    Crickets indeed. The more important question is, “why do you keep asking”?
    Some people will never agree with you no matter what your citations are. Take a deep breath and let it go.

  341. Qshtik February 8, 2011 at 3:58 pm #

    Fucking A that is SO true. not sure where the F ‘in A came from. I can swear also as good as any.
    ================
    As far back as the mid to late ’50s when I was in H.S. we were saying things like: Did you see the tits on that!? FUH kin A !!
    To this day I don’t know what the A stands for. Anybody know?

  342. wagelaborer February 8, 2011 at 4:01 pm #

    Thanks for the link.
    One of the sad things about America is the hatefulness that has been fostered over the last 30 years.
    People watching other people (Americans yet!) being beaten and tased and dragged off in handcuffs-as entertainment.
    Cause it will never happen to them! They’re “good”.
    And that’s really what my right-winger co-workers refer to themselves as – “the good guys”. (Kind of like the military does, now that I think about it. And Bush and Obama. Oh. Now I see where it comes from).
    Anyway. Chris Hedges nailed it. Again.

  343. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 4:02 pm #

    “You did not cite any credible scientific evidence based on research done by experts in the area of climate science.
    That would be because there is none.”
    Au contraire. There is an abundance. But I will not be the one pointing you towards it. I have done so in the past. Great, credible, abundant information. And at the time you made no response. None. And that was because you had no counter argument. Enough doubt was placed in your mind that you walked away. Were I to do the same thing again you would disappear for a while (holy shit, thats almost a reason to do it) and when you came back you’d change the subject.
    The difference between you and me, my friend is that my mind remains open on the topic, while yours has been shut. And since asoka-herself’s mind is all buttoned down on the topic, the rest of us are to pony up the trillions that this scam will entail. Cause asoka-herself said so. Now there is a fucking reason.

  344. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 4:03 pm #

    “This is but one more example of you not knowing what the fuck you are talking about.
    Furthermore. I do not personally degrade “anyone” with whom I disagree. I will degrade liars (and on this site there are numerous liars) and fucktards that are either stupid by birth or choice and insist on sharing their stupidity. Now where would you fall on my “degrade” list?”
    notTootsie
    Thanks for the list, Not your Mommy. I checked and I am definitely not on it.
    At this point I rest my case and respectfully wait for TooTSie to be banned like all the screen names before.
    ———
    NICE call, Q. I do believe this is what we call confirmation.
    PoC
    IGNORE FUTURE COMMENTS from troll TOOTSIE
    until insulting language stops.
    I said IGNORE.
    Ignore
    ignore
    how hard can this be?
    i g n o r e aaaahhh – Peace

  345. wagelaborer February 8, 2011 at 4:05 pm #

    “Whether 8,000 were murdered doesn’t matter. It could’ve been 2,000 or 10,000 or zero. The Canuck General in charge of Sarajevo during the civil war festivities doubts the massacre ever happened. What matters is what everyone THINKS happened.”
    Umm, yes, because then the propaganda is effective and the bombing can begin.
    Are you defending that, Cash?

  346. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 4:06 pm #

    “As far back as the mid to late ’50s when I was in H.S. we were saying things like: Did you see the tits on that!?”
    “That” being a what?

  347. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 4:16 pm #

    “I know you are ignoring me ProCon”
    Jeeze, asoka – you seem just a little bit full of yourself here. I hadn’t given you another thought until saw this post directed to me specifically.
    If you will ACTUALLY READ my posts before popping off – I stated in one that AGW is settled science within a probability of 85%.
    To me that’s actionable science.
    And a tactic of fostering CFN dialog.
    Science will never be 100%.
    ============
    I had not responded because I do not believe you have anything to add to this debate. Looking up stuff on a website – without thoughtful analysis based on some prior knowledge – is NOT adding to the debate.
    It is adding to the noise.
    And it is blocking communication to the point where others on the opposite side feel that “they can’t get a word in edgeways.”
    Thus the sobriquet. Enjoy it. Or change tactics.

  348. asoka February 8, 2011 at 4:25 pm #

    BICO-2 said: “Crickets indeed. The more important question is, “why do you keep asking”?”
    ======
    Oh, oh, oh, I know the answer to that question!
    And I’ll relay it in the form of a well-known joke:

    A scorpion sitting on the East Bank of the Jordan River asks a frog to carry him across. “What if you sting me?,” the frog demurs. “Why would I do that?,” counters the scorpion. “Then we’d both drown.”
    The frog is persuaded and takes the scorpion on his back. Midway across the river the scorpion stings the frog. “Why did you do that? Now we’ll both die!,” protests the frog. “It is my nature,” the scorpion replies.

    It is my nature to ask questions.

  349. asoka February 8, 2011 at 4:33 pm #

    ProCon said: “Looking up stuff on a website – without thoughtful analysis based on some prior knowledge – is NOT adding to the debate.”
    ============
    1) I did not “look up stuff on a website.” I looked up the article in the journal Nature that I cited.
    2) Facts can be useful in an honest debate. Facts are often influential deciding issues or deciding what is actionable and what is not.
    3) By saying this: “I had not responded because I do not believe you have anything to add to this debate” you are giving away your prejudice against me. You should always be open to the possibility that one day I may say (or contribute) something worth considering, instead of deciding ahead of time “I do not believe you have anything to add…”
    4) Yes, I am full of myself. And I like who I am. I don’t need external confirmation of my intelligence or worth. If I did, I would have left CFN long ago.

  350. BICO-2 February 8, 2011 at 4:34 pm #

    But you keep asking the same question repeatedly.
    ” I have cited…I have cited….I have asked” & you keep getting the same response, crickets. So my question to you is, why do you KEEP asking?

  351. asoka February 8, 2011 at 4:35 pm #

    BICO-2 said: “So my question to you is, why do you KEEP asking?”
    =====
    And my answer, once again (without the joke) is:
    It is my nature to ask questions.

  352. BICO-2 February 8, 2011 at 4:45 pm #

    No, asking questions is to sate your curiosity & to learn/grow. You are being stubborn. THAT is your nature.

  353. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 4:48 pm #

    ” I don’t need external confirmation of my intelligence or worth.”
    Of course you don’t, You live in a self-contained, delusional world. Heaven forbid some outside influences should break the spell of your worshipful prayer to yourself.

  354. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 4:57 pm #

    “It is my nature to ask questions.”
    “A question ain’t really a question,
    If you know the answer too.”
    -John Price-

  355. Bustin J February 8, 2011 at 4:57 pm #

    Vlad denied, “The Global Warming Thesis is unproven. People who don’t buy it aren’t scum or “deniers”. But people who call them that are.”
    Vlad, the list of your inaccuracies and ignorance is as long as my arm. At the top is this claim that GW is unproven. Next in line is your stupid ideas about race.
    Read a book, nigga.






    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/mar/29/james-lovelock-climate-change
    http://climateprogress.org/2010/11/29/royal-society-special-issue-4-degrees-world/
    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/the-dead-sea-global-warming-blamed-for-40-per-cent-decline-in-the-oceans-phytoplankton-2038074.html
    http://climateprogress.org/2010/07/29/nature-decline-ocean-phytoplankton-global-warming-boris-worm/

  356. Pangolin February 8, 2011 at 4:58 pm #

    Assuming Jim Kunstler ever reads these things could we ask him to BOLD the NAME of the present commenter instead of the prior?
    That way we could choose to ignore repeat offenders without eyestrain.

  357. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 5:02 pm #

    Here is a paragraph from one of your sources:
    “They found that phytoplankton had declined significantly in all but two of the ocean regions at an average global rate of about 1 per cent per year, most of which since the mid 20th Century. They found that this decline correlated with a corresponding rise in sea-surface temperatures – although they cannot prove that warmer oceans caused the decline.”
    WTF?!? Read the last sentence. And you are using this as a source?
    Shut up, fool.

  358. lbendet February 8, 2011 at 5:13 pm #

    Asoka,
    I think it’s clear that the gay issue in the military had no corporate agenda one way or the other, thus the corporations didn’t lobby against it. It was clear through polling that most Americans were ready for it.
    ___________
    Wage,
    I never thought of myself as a conspiracy theorist, but my point is that this country sees itself as a superpower in the global arena and wants hegemony in the areas of finance and military. The leadership follows through on this agenda that further the aspirations of the transnationals because that is how they see the expression of power. The fact that the middle class is suffering is just an unfortunate by-product of having so much power globally.

  359. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 5:13 pm #

    Furthermore, the phytoplankton article did not attribute the cause of global warming. It is “cause” that is controversial not warming.

  360. Bustin J February 8, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    Marlinfive54 says, “I’m just saying … when are ordinary, nonscientific people like myself going to see some real empirical evidence of the supposed catastrophe bearing down on us? Until that happens the more skeptical amongst us are liable to deduce that this is just another global scam to transfer whatever wealth is left in the West to the grasping and needy 3rd world, via the UN.”
    Knock, knock.
    M54: Who’s there?
    BJ: Bustin J, scientist.
    M54: What the fuck do you want?
    BJ: I’m here to warn you about Global warming.
    M54: I can’t just believe you! I need evidence!
    BJ: I believe you have already been well-informed.
    M54: Thats true, I’ve been hearing about this since the 70s.
    BJ: Yes, so, what exactly can I tell you to prove the theory?
    M54: Nothing. I need to see empirical evidence.
    BJ: That is supplied in the scientific literature, the body of knowledge gained through peer-reviewed studies performed using scientific controls and instruments around the world.
    M54: Umm, okay, but I need empirical evidence.
    That data IS empirical evidence.
    M54: I am sorry, I did not really know the definition of the term “empirical” even though I use the word in my reasoning and rationale.
    BJ: That is understandable. Many people use words in their reasoning and rationale without understanding their definitions.
    M54: How wonderful you have illuminated the problem which has vexed my understanding of the world for the past 30 years. Now I can move forward, freed from my ignorance, and use the knowledge gained by hundreds of years of scientific inquiry, by thousands of diligent, disciplined scientists among many specialties, to provide an accurate picture of things which are not necessarily apparent to the physical senses.
    BJ: No problem. As I’m sure you’ll be gratified to know that the same rigor of investigation was used to construct just about everything around you. And, in fact, this tradition goes back thousands of years, to the fundamental work of Plato and Aristotle.
    M54: What a gift. Now, I will incorporate this new knowledge into my worldview. My newfound grasp of reality will held me make informed choices and decisions, hopefully in a way that makes the world a better place.
    CREDITS ROLL; AUDIENCE ERUPTS IN APPLAUSE

  361. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    “IGNORE FUTURE COMMENTS from troll TOOTSIE
    until insulting language stops.
    I said IGNORE.
    Ignore
    ignore
    how hard can this be?
    i g n o r e aaaahhh – Peace

    So, ah let me understand…the above is ignoring? OK.

  362. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 5:16 pm #

    “Knock, knock.
    M54: Who’s there?
    BJ: Bustin J, scientist.”
    Oh, the “scientist” that lists fucktard articles? Nope, can’t come in.

  363. Pangolin February 8, 2011 at 5:21 pm #

    Regarding this bit….
    [block]2) Facts can be useful in an honest debate. Facts are often influential deciding issues or deciding what is actionable and what is not._Asoka[/block]
    It’s been repeatedly noted that ‘Fact’ have a liberal bias. So much so that conservatives appear to have ceded the world of facts and evidence entirely over to liberals and are now arguing with the validity of the scientific process itself.
    Of course you’ll note that when the scientific process tells them that Vioxx causes heart failure and kidney damage they stop taking it.
    Which leads one to the conclusion that they KNOW they are f**king their children and grandchildren over; they just don’t care.

  364. Nathan February 8, 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    The government looks to the people for the treausure it needs to carry out its dreams and wishes. It takes ALL that it thinks it can.

  365. Nathan February 8, 2011 at 5:25 pm #

    Individuals who are struggling with simple problems in the present are not that interested with complicated problems of the future. That would be the realm of wise men and our culture has not been a world leader in the production of wise men.

  366. Bustin J February 8, 2011 at 5:26 pm #

    tj says, “Point, it’s a suckers bet to underestimate the capacity of man’s hand to effect ANY system on Earth, or the very planet itself.”
    True that. Man has touched every square foot of land on the entire Earth.
    Don’t believe me? You are a douche, an acetic-acid based solution used for rinsing the vaginal cavity.
    We are exposed to an invisible rain of man-made particles no matter where we are on the Earth. We inhale them, and they have half-lives in our bodies. It doesn’t matter if you live in Times Square or the North Pole. Its all one big continuum.
    If you want to know more, google “PBDE”
    Created by scientists, mandated by politicians, this compound is in your body, fucking around with your DNA.
    A more perfect failure of science I cannot think of.
    Just a little proof to you all that I’m no cheerleader for progress for progress’s sake. We must be eternally vigilant against the march of insidious technology against the foundations of life on Earth. Which, by the way, have been severely damaged. Its why I write things on this board like, “There is no future”.
    I don’t like people that lie to children. This up and coming generation is either going to get hard or get crushed by the consequences of history. We do them no favors by pretending our prejudices and ignorance is some kind of heirloom.

  367. poorgrouch February 8, 2011 at 5:40 pm #

    JHK,
    Please remove Tootsie

  368. Pangolin February 8, 2011 at 5:40 pm #

    I don’t like people that lie to children. This up and coming generation is either going to get hard or get crushed by the consequences of history. We do them no favors by pretending our prejudices and ignorance is some kind of heirloom.
    The current generation of 18-29 year olds have been so brainwashed since birth about individualism that they are literally unable to comprehend group political action towards a goal.
    Even with team sports reporting is so completely focused on the specific individuals playing that team coordination is seen as supporting or failing to support that team’s designated hero.
    In short; they’re fucked because they sit there, each alone with their goddamn thumbs in their mouths.

  369. CaptSpaulding February 8, 2011 at 5:43 pm #

    Hey pissant, it’s gratifying to see you once again responding to your name, thereby signifying acceptance of the appellation. You’re easier to train than my dog. You’re so easily manipulated it’s pathetic. Make me laugh some more.

  370. poorgrouch February 8, 2011 at 5:46 pm #

    JHK,
    Thank you for removing Tootsie

  371. Pangolin February 8, 2011 at 5:46 pm #

    This….
    “I don’t like people that lie to children. This up and coming generation is either going to get hard or get crushed by the consequences of history. We do them no favors by pretending our prejudices and ignorance is some kind of heirloom.”_Bustin J
    …..should have been blockquoted in the above comment.
    Can anybody link me to a HTML tags sheet that works for this page? I tag just fine everywhere else.

  372. BeantownBill February 8, 2011 at 5:48 pm #

    The science of global warming is very complicated and very subtle, and so are the methods of collecting and interpreting the data. A lot of science is pretty easily proven beyond a reasonable doubt, such as Newton’s 3 laws of motion.
    As another example, when an astronomer obtains a spectrum of a star, the spectrum can be printed out on a piece of paper; you can hold it in your hand. When a 2nd astronomer gets the spectrum of the same star, if it’s gotten around the same time frame as the 1st, both spectra will be the same. It is straightforward data, but the 2 astronomers may give different explanations as to what the significance of the spectrum is.
    Climate data are not as straightforward as physics data. I’m not a climate scientist, so I don’t know how to go about collecting GW data, but it seems to me there’s a lot of leeway in taking Earth’s temperature, for example. Are temperature readings standardized?
    So for me, AGW is about probabilities, because, unlike physics, climate change data probably are not exactly the same, depending on who’s collecting it.
    Still, based on everything I’ve read, AGW is most likely occurring. Personally, I’d give it a 90%
    probability, but certainly not 100%.
    Think about the logic. Doesn’t it appear likely, that with 7 billion people on the Earth, with a vast, hi-tech civilization utilizing a large amount of energy at much less than 100% efficiency, with most of the unused energy in the form of heat, and with tons of greenhouse materials being dumped into the atmosphere, that there has to be some effect on the environment?
    How that manifests itself is yet to be determined with certainty. For example, global warming could set off an ice age.
    There’s so much global warming information available that it’s hard to get into it. But, as a start I’d recommend a few articles in the Skeptical Inquirer magazine. Anyone can access the articles online at skepticalinquirer.org.

  373. MarlinFive54 February 8, 2011 at 5:48 pm #

    PoC. thanx for the thoughtful response.
    Bustin J (and Tootsie) you had me laughing like hell.
    Bustin J, I know about the peer reviewed scientific evidence regarding global warming … what I want to know, as it is 6d F. outside my window right now, is WHEN THE F— IS IT GONNA START GETTING WARM!!! That’s all. Because I been freezing my ass off for the past 45 straight days and I can’t take much more of it.

  374. Pangolin February 8, 2011 at 5:50 pm #

    I’m pretty sure Conservatives respond to rewards of bacon but I’ve never been able to get them to associate the reward with the clicker. Analyzing Glenn Beck broadcasts for actual dog whistles now…..

  375. BeantownBill February 8, 2011 at 6:03 pm #

    In another vein, I see the respect level of discourse is gradually decreasing again. Q has his thing with grammar, I have mine with reasonable politeness.
    Anyone can be upset with a particular posting, and maybe vent their anger at that poster. But it is not acceptable in a supposedly civillized society to habitually ridicule posters, I’m not mentioning names, but everyone knows who the offenders are.
    As others have said before, including me, don’t respond to rude posts. Not at all. I know some people feel that sometimes these rude posters have something worthwhile to say. True. But look at the numbers. For every good post, there’s 5 bad ones. It’s just not worth it. If there was some dessert you loved to eat, but for every time you immensely enjoyed it, 5 times you got sick to your stomach, would you still try to eat it?
    I just don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect people to post respectfully, and I don’t think it’s difficult to do it. Ignore them when they are mean and/or hateful and they’ll either change their style or go away.

  376. BeantownBill February 8, 2011 at 6:08 pm #

    I always thought that the “A” was a shortening of asshole, and that the term ended up being widely used as an exclamation.

  377. wagelaborer February 8, 2011 at 6:09 pm #

    You got that right, Pangolin.
    My husband was watching The Thornbirds last week, and I walked in while the priest was telling the little girl that nothing in the world was more important than her needs and wants, and she needed to get what she wanted.
    Wow! I commented that that was certainly an American concept, and my husband defensively said that it was an Australian movie. I didn’t think so, but maybe Australians are brainwashed the same way?
    Anyway, movies, TV shows, commercials, songs, sports- it’s all about me, me, me.
    Even new parents are told that their baby won’t be well served unless they are happy. So if they need to palm that kid off onto someone else, so they can take a vacation, or whatever, go for it!

  378. Nathan February 8, 2011 at 6:20 pm #

    Here is the part I do not get. If you reduce your carbon footprint by conservation (efficiency) and renewable energy (cost saving) you make your business more competitive, which I have done with my businesses. These actions are a hedge against global warming that make my business more competitive now and even more so over time. So call me stupid (this means you Vlad) but I am going green ($$$$ green) full tilt and hugging a tree while I stomp my conservative (oil only) competitors.

  379. Qshtik February 8, 2011 at 6:21 pm #

    I do not personally degrade “anyone” with whom I disagree. I will degrade liars (and on this site there are numerous liars) and fucktards that are either stupid by birth or choice and insist on sharing their stupidity.
    ===============
    I am not a liar TootsNotMomLing and I’m not “stupid by birth or choice” (actually it started when I fell out the back of a pickup doing 45 down a bumpy road on the farm) yet you invoked God in heaven to have a Canada Goose shit on my head. That’s very offensive.
    ;-)

  380. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    “PoC. thanx for the thoughtful response.”
    – Marlin –
    My pleasure. I’m actually planning to get back to you and the thread about #4 and #9 sometime later.
    I’m glad you concur that Bustin’s little dialog was funny. I was laughing, too. even OL, for a second!
    But I was thinking to myself – steady Bustin – you don’t want to piss ol’Marlin off, and you don’t want to talk down to him – –
    Which is a big problem with a website like this. Bustin and I might pick out some climate research, or whatever, and go toe to toe for hours over minute details – (that’s why I picked 85% certainty out of thin air, pun intended, – just a nice sounding number that I can probably defend.)
    But we’d lose the general audience if we did that, Bustin. And it’s the general audience that may be about to start to get REAL concerned about a whole bunch of things that those of us on the fringes, have been screaming about for years.
    There is yet hope. And Bustin, I can certainly understand “giving up all hope” or however you put it. It may be that the FACTS of AGW, peak everything, out of control US populations – we may really be doomed – and we may be at or even over the edge of a cliff.
    Metaphor Ahead – WARNING, WARNING!
    Maybe it’s because I’ve got kids, and now a grandkid – or maybe it is my Southern reverence and love for a Lost Cause – but I’m never giving up –
    If doom were a man, then I would be fighting with that son of a bitch right to the edge of the cliff. And if he pushed me over, I’d do my best to pull him over with me – and I would fight that m*th*r fScker all the way down until we hit the bottom and bounced.
    ‘Cause as long as there is life – there is hope.
    Best of regards to Bustin and Marlin,
    And anybody else asking honest questions,
    And willing to accept honest answers,
    PoC

  381. Pucker February 8, 2011 at 6:26 pm #

    I want my Mummy….
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-12389573

  382. Vlad Krandz February 8, 2011 at 6:36 pm #

    Nah, one fair sized volcano would have put more crap into the atmosphere than all the humans in 10,000 BC. Volcanoes can cause temporary extreme climate disruptions. Who knows? If a few big ones went off at the same time it could be the catalyst for an Ice Age – if we were already due. The Sun is and always will be the pace maker of the Earth’s climate. In the dance between the Earth and the Sun, the Sun leads. Humans are mostly just the spectators – enjoying or suffering like fans at a game. We CAN effect things to some extent – mostly for the worse. If we cut down the Amazon Forest (as we are doing) it might effect weather patterns in Africa for example – more drought probably.
    You are correct about global cooling. Even a little little ice age of a few decades would cause crop failure, billions dead and possibly the end of World Civilization. Global Warming would be far less catastrophic because far more gradual. Sure we might have to evacuate a few tribes or build levees in our coastal cities – all doable. There might be gradual shifts in agriculture too. But the cold? Instant crop failure and death.
    That’s the whole point Cash: the Left grabbed onto the idea and went crazy with it threatening and slandering with abandon. And then they are amazed when people become irate with them. And Wage is right too: the Corporations or at least some of them, are ready to make a profit off of this. And yes the Oil Companies are probably financing some of the “deniers”. But after all is said and done, it is not proven and we shouldn’t disrupt our whole economy because of it. There is enough disruption coming anyway and lots of things that need doing without this crap. Why not tell people about Peak Oil if they know? Why do they have to create a quasi-religious cult with the threat of violence? If cutbacks in Industry are inevitable, why not stay rational and try to move people along as Mr Kunstler advises?

  383. Vlad Krandz February 8, 2011 at 6:41 pm #

    Kristol has come out in favor in of the Egyptian Protestors and excoriates Beck as a conspiracy monger for suggesting that the Muslim Brotherhood might be orchestrating some of this or at least benefiting from it. What do you think? Beck is concerned for Israel if all this goes Muslim and Bad. I am surprised that Kristol isn’t on the same wavelength.

  384. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 6:42 pm #

    Nathan – YOU ARE DA’ MAN!!
    “Individuals who are struggling with simple problems in the present are not that interested with complicated problems of the future. That would be the realm of wise men and our culture has not been a world leader in the production of wise men.” – nathan –
    This CFN thread strains and struggles – and every once in a great while it manages to produce some Honest to God (god?) Wisdom.
    Yours is SO GOOD that I have to paste it again!!
    “Individuals who are struggling with simple problems in the present are not that interested with complicated problems of the future. That would be the realm of wise men, and our culture has not been a world leader in the production of wise men.”
    – Nathan –
    WOW!
    NOW DO ANOTHER ONE, NATHAN!!! hahohe!
    PoC

  385. Qshtik February 8, 2011 at 6:57 pm #

    Can anybody link me to a HTML tags sheet that works for this page?
    ============
    You’re using the wrong brackets and you are not typing in the full word blockquote. You should use the less than and greater than symbols as brackets. Google “HTML tags” for more instructions.

  386. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 7:05 pm #

    “By saying this: “I had not responded because I do not believe you have anything to add to this debate” you are giving away your prejudice against me.”
    – asoka – quoting and commenting to PoC –
    “an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.”
    -dictionary.com – definition
    Let’s clear something up, A.
    I am not prejudiced against you.
    In fact, my slowly evolving and deeply unfavorable opinion of you is based on 7 long months on CFN. It is based on watching you derail, sidetrack, and subvert INNUMERABLE discussions on these CFN threads – over, and over, and over, and over – –
    You pretend to support AGW, yet you disparage science, rationalism, and especially, “physics,”
    week after week.
    You try to come across this week as a “liberal,” yet just last week, or week before, you were talking about the “nobility in Palin supporters” (paraphrased) or some such. And I’ve finally deduced what your “honest” perspective is, after 6 months of unintentional study of your online persona.
    You need to let your honest persona and your honest perspective fly free on CFN.
    You might really have something to add, here.
    I, for one, would like to hear what Mr. Asoka REALLY believes.
    You know you want to tell us!
    Let it out, man.

  387. helen highwater February 8, 2011 at 7:22 pm #

    notOEO, Vlad and the rest of you neanderthals on this list should get your heads out of your butts for once and take a look around at what is going on in the world, instead of just having your own little theories that you will stick to no matter what is really happening. It really doesn’t matter if you call it climate change or global warming or anything else. Something is definitely changing about our climate, and we’d better start working on what we are going to do about it instead of fighting over what’s causing it before there is NOTHING LEFT TO EAT! And please learn to respond to a post without using the words Fuck You. There are other ways to say “I don’t agree.” Didn’t you learn anything in kindergarden?

  388. poorgrouch February 8, 2011 at 7:24 pm #

    Harrumph!

  389. asia February 8, 2011 at 7:25 pm #

    SHEESH…’one fair sized volcano’
    HOW ABOUT 7 BILLION PEOPLE ARE DOING ALOT [OF BAD] TO THE BIOSPHERE?
    Your ability to deny is quite strong [climate change, holocaust].

  390. wagelaborer February 8, 2011 at 7:26 pm #

    Hey, didn’t mean to freak you out by calling you a conspiracy theorist.
    Remember, to me that’s a compliment!

  391. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 7:28 pm #

    “Hey pissant, it’s gratifying to see you once again responding to your name, thereby signifying acceptance of the appellation.”
    Hey dickweed, you’ve claimed victory on this silly phenomenon before. You make comments on my specific comments, so who the hell else are you supposed to be addressing. Call me what you wish. I don’t give a fuck how you address me. Why? Cause you don’t matter. Not even a little.

  392. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 7:30 pm #

    “Bustin J (and Tootsie) you had me laughing like hell.”
    Too true. I have to thank Bustin though. He’s a good foil for comedy.

  393. lbendet February 8, 2011 at 7:31 pm #

    Ha, Wage,
    I’m not freaked out, but I’ve been writing about this since I started blogging in May, so I figured you were already familiar with my rants and/or thinking.

  394. poorgrouch February 8, 2011 at 7:31 pm #

    JHK,
    Please remove tootsie

  395. CaptSpaulding February 8, 2011 at 7:32 pm #

    Thanks pissant. there’s a good little fellow

  396. helen highwater February 8, 2011 at 7:32 pm #

    I can’t believe some of the people on this list are STILL arguing about climate change and whether or not it is really happening. Turn on your TV, turn on the Internet, turn on the radio. Open your eyes when you go outside the door. Don’t you see ANYTHING DIFFERENT?? Well most of us sure do. And I don’t attribute it to “God’s plan” or “normal weather” or any of that other crap that you folks keep spouting. Something is changing. And it started happening shortly after the industrial revolution and it is getting worse every year. Arctic ice melting? Himalayan glaciers melting? Just a coincidence? I don’t think so. Ask the people in Australia, China, Russia, the US (unprecedented snow storms), New Orleans, and all the other places where there have been “unprecedented” weather events if they think it is “normal”. And if they’d prefer that we just pay attention to the economy while their homes slowly disappear under water and their crops die from lack of rain.

  397. Nathan February 8, 2011 at 7:35 pm #

    You are welcome. I guess I do not get the whole right/left thing. In any given situation there are always opposing forces and there is always a winning formula that incorporates all of the data not just under half. Fools choose sides and winners choose the path to success and let the fools from both right and left toil for them.

  398. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 7:35 pm #

    By the by, Capt. Macho, I have a little of the punch you seem to love so much. I’ll save you a couple of hundred gallons. You know, so you can serve it up to all those fine bitches in your possie and impress them and shit.

  399. poorgrouch February 8, 2011 at 7:37 pm #

    JHK,
    Please remove tootsie

  400. lbendet February 8, 2011 at 7:39 pm #

    Kristol is first and foremost a neoconservative. His father started the movement, so to be consistent, he needs to push for the Democracy in the Middle East agenda, or what does he have? After theorizing that Iraq would be used as a model state in the region, he has a philosophical mandate to stand for the Egyptian democracy movement. Isn’t that what they insist they want?
    When that happens they can establish free market economies in the region. (making the world safe for McDonald’s) See both groups of neos come together. Neoconservatives and Neoliberals believe that free markets produce democracies, but what comes first, the chicken or the egg?

  401. Vlad Krandz February 8, 2011 at 7:42 pm #

    Disagree about Global Warming but I like your distinctions – nice discriminations between fact and exploitation of the facts to suit an agenda. But we could also make a distinction: we might want everyone to have insurance too but not trust the Goverment to do a good job of it because of a) beaureacratic inefficiency and b) different values such as end of life care and abortion. The Blues and the Reds are diverging more and more in terms of values. And since the Federal Goverment is in the Blue Camp…

  402. Nathan February 8, 2011 at 7:43 pm #

    Where is there a democracy in the world today?

  403. Nathan February 8, 2011 at 7:48 pm #

    I don’t see the red and blue. I see a government that exercises the will of huge corporations and presents a two party system to divide and conquer. Both parties take your money and fail to provide the necessary services.

  404. JonathanSS February 8, 2011 at 7:51 pm #

    HH is right. I’d like to rewrite the phrase, “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.”
    No matter how much someone knows about a subject, there is still much that isn’t known. Some need to consider their strident and adamant tones. Try some humility.
    The more I learn about a subject the more I realize how much I don’t know.

  405. CaptSpaulding February 8, 2011 at 7:53 pm #

    Poor pissant, you really can’t control yourself can you? Always have to respond don’t you? It’s the nature of the pissant to react exactly as you do. I ring the bell and you salivate. I’ll save some of that koolaid for you. Ha ha ha.

  406. ozone February 8, 2011 at 7:54 pm #

    “And that’s really what my right-winger co-workers refer to themselves as – “the good guys”. (Kind of like the military does, now that I think about it. And Bush and Obama. Oh. Now I see where it comes from).” -Wage
    ======================
    Well, okay, if that’s the way it is. (In other words, if they’ve co-opted ANOTHER piece of language that doesn’t rightfully belong to them!)
    Then, FUCK IT; I’m perfectly willing to put on the black hat and call myself “enemy”. And you betchum you, Red Ryder, all bets are off, eeeeeverything’s on the table (asshat-speak), let the feudin’ begin.
    BTW, this tactic of permanently “borrowing” language to attempt “re-branding” is getting to be outrageous. Just plain ol’ deception by professional liars.

  407. lbendet February 8, 2011 at 8:02 pm #

    Now, that’s a trick question.

  408. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 8:03 pm #

    “It is based on watching you derail, sidetrack, and subvert INNUMERABLE discussions on these CFN threads – over, and over, and over, and over – –
    You know you need to get the fuck over yourself. I don’t care what people talk about on this thread. If they say something that catches my eye I’ll respond. If not I won’t. So how about shutting the fuck up over, and over, and over, and over – -Kay?

  409. Vlad Krandz February 8, 2011 at 8:05 pm #

    Read it again – I was refering to 10,000 BC. But even now one good sized volcano could equal or trump all the man made pollution put into the atmosphere in a given year. Ever hear of Krakotoa? And the year without a summer in the late 1800’s? Have we ever equaled this in terms of carbon in a given month or year? You might have a better argument if you focused on aerosols and the depletion of the ozone.
    The Holocaust thing was a cheap shot. You must be mad at me again. What is it this time? My innocuous comment/jest about gay marriage to Ibendit?
    I don’t deny that air pollution can be a problem in terms of breathing in some cities or acid rain in the some areas. But World Wide Climate Change would be something of a whole nother magnitude.

  410. Nathan February 8, 2011 at 8:06 pm #

    Hey Wage,
    I agree it is a sad state when humans seek satisfaction from tormenting others or celebrate the pain of others because it brings a sense of worth to their own meaningless existences. It happens right on this site.

  411. JonathanSS February 8, 2011 at 8:07 pm #

    I’m irritated by all this “climate change” back and forth. Read my previous post.
    Let’s hear some real free market approaches to reducing the amount of junk spewed into the thin blue line. Most of you would be offended if you saw someone throwing a pile of garbage onto the side of the road. Don’t most pay for garbage pickup? Then how come one can spew garbage into the air and not pay the costs that everyone else has to incur? Sin taxes on alcohol and cigarettes are well established and costs are compared to medical related expenses.
    I’m sure to hear about the evils of more gov’t control and stealing my money from one side. Instead of a knee jerk reaction, what is your solution to reducing imported oil?

  412. poorgrouch February 8, 2011 at 8:08 pm #

    JHK,
    Please remove tootsie

  413. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 8:08 pm #

    “Something is definitely changing about our climate, and we’d better start working on what we are going to do about it instead of fighting over what’s causing it before there is NOTHING LEFT TO EAT!”
    Are you really this stupid? If we don’t know the cause how the fuck would you suggest we “…better start working on what we are going to do about it.” Sweet hay soose. I got some advice for ya’ hel, don’t just do something, hurry up and stand there.

  414. wagelaborer February 8, 2011 at 8:08 pm #

    Well, I’m not for insurance at all – private or public.
    I think we should expand public health clinics into government provided health care.
    Not the Canadian model – the British one.
    That’s what I liked about Kaiser HMO when I lived in California. The money went to pay the doctors, nurses, pharmacists, clinics and hospitals whether you were sick or not, but when you were, they were there for you.
    Why have a middleman at all?
    And, of course, I’m for access for abortion – free and accessible. Quit worrying about embryos and start worrying about real people!
    One of my right wing co-workers informed me that he was actually for Obama’s death panels, because he didn’t think that old people should get health care. Nice!
    But there will be no death panels. This is America, land of free choice and individual responsibility.
    There will be co-pays. More and more of them.
    And then people will make the individual choice not to seek health care, because they can’t afford it.
    There will be no public outcry, because this is America, and people know that those without money don’t really deserve to live, do they?
    If they can’t afford housing, they should live on the street.
    If they can’t afford food, they should go hungry.
    And if they can’t afford co-pays, they should go untreated.
    It’s the American way.

  415. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 8:10 pm #

    Captain,
    I hate to ask you to stop beating a dead horse.
    Or in notMommy’s/TooTsie’s case – beating a soon to be dead screenname.
    And I’m sure we all appreciate the effort you are making to stamp out Trolls and ensure politeness on CFN.
    But you might better give the guy an out. All he has to do is come up with a screenname that won’t call names and project rudeness.
    He could call it HappyToot.
    Or he could call it Joyous TzaLing.
    – which sounds like something at a Chinese place-
    The hardscrabble Southerner Scotch-Irish in me is trying to tell you, “Never trap a rat.”
    The superstitious Eastern Religious Poetic mind in me is thinking that Tza/Ling/Tootsie –
    has more lives than all the cats in my yard –
    COMBINED and he may never leave us – no matter why
    ====================
    Total change of subject for humor
    “If you have 13 cats in your yard – and you can’t pet a single one of them – ”
    “You might be a redneck!”
    Jeff FoxWorthy

  416. ozone February 8, 2011 at 8:11 pm #

    [Re. rightwing denial of the scientific process.]
    “Which leads one to the conclusion that they KNOW they are f**king their children and grandchildren over; they just don’t care.” -Pangolin
    =================================
    Christonthecross! That was one of my suspicions. Could it really be true that they don’t give a shit about the [immanent] extinction of their own SPECIES?!? Brrrrrr, that’s some cooooold doin’s. How the hell did we birth such a huge collection of psychopaths?

  417. Nathan February 8, 2011 at 8:14 pm #

    The justification for Americas “nation building ” is the false pretense that America is a democracy. No matter who gets elected here nothing improves for anyone not in the top .5%. In the most recent election cycle the Tea party placed a number of their choice in the House of Representatives to rein in spending. Those members are already back pedaling on spending cuts after less than 45 days in office.

  418. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 8:16 pm #

    “Thanks for the list, Not your Mommy. I checked and I am definitely not on it.”
    Think you better go back and check again. By my count you hit all three categories. That, plus you are an asshat.

  419. Vlad Krandz February 8, 2011 at 8:16 pm #

    In terms of the Goverment I only see the Blue. But in terms of people, the split is real. And thus the Goverment has different marketing strategies. Since I believe that Communism was a conspiracy of the Bankers to destroy Traditional Society, your point of view makes perfect sense. But few can follow me so far – still caught up with the romanticism of rebellion and the illusion that the “people” know what’s best for them.
    In terms of marketing to Blue Neo-Communists (Reds!), the emergence of Neo-Liberalism and the arising of someone like Obama was necessary and predictable. Next time it will be a Woman. Oh my God, a woman. Our first Woman President! Freedom! Liberatation! Oh Happy Day!
    The color board is counter intuitive: it should be Liberals/Red and Conservatives/Blue. In fact, it used to be. Then one election they changed the board. This is mind fucking and it does help confuse the weak minded.

  420. poorgrouch February 8, 2011 at 8:16 pm #

    How are they back pedaling?

  421. Nathan February 8, 2011 at 8:22 pm #

    Red/Blue conservative/liberal or have and have nots and then the mindless yet fervent followers of the haves of both of the illusory colors. By the way Vlad it is an interesting moment to agree with you.
    I like it.

  422. Vlad Krandz February 8, 2011 at 8:24 pm #

    You people are just trying to cover your asses. The Global Warming thang started to look ridiculous and then some of the conspirators were caught with their fingers in the cookie jar fudging the data. Then suddenly it wasn’t global warming anymore but “Climate Change”. Well if it’s not warming per se, then we might not need cap and trade. Remember the carbon was supposed to be causing a green house effect. Remember? But even though the reason isn’t certain anymore they are still trying to ram through the scam. Sorry no one believes it – the conspirators are too close to the various Western Goverments.

  423. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 8:26 pm #

    First you say:
    “Thank you for removing Tootsie”
    Now you say:
    JHK,
    Please remove tootsie
    Why would you first thank him for removing me if he had not? Why not remove thyself?

  424. asoka February 8, 2011 at 8:26 pm #

    ProCon, you crack me up!
    You say: “You need to let your honest persona and your honest perspective fly free on CFN.”
    Of course, “honest” is defined by you and your Christian worldview, as revealed in your recent pathetic and plaintiff “take a side, any side, and defend it” — typical Manichean dualism.
    Your worldview doesn’t seem to admit the possibility of a protean/fluid/spontaneous/flowing experience of life can be as honest as it is changeable.
    I can change religions every day of the week and practice agnosticism on Saturday and atheism on Sunday.
    But you probably see that as “not honest” … (just like Q. could not accept that I had participated in zikrs, proclaiming “you did not!” … a comical denial of my own life experience by someone who doesn’t even know me).
    Your insistence on what you call “honest” says more about you than me. I’ve been upfront and forthright about my non-belief and my refusal to “take sides” … and yes, I did defend Palin supporters as good people and you stupidly could not accept that I would say that because it did not fit into your preconceptions. I watch NASCAR, too, and I have a favorite driver … so sue me.

  425. Funzel February 8, 2011 at 8:27 pm #

    I often wonder,who is that beast of burden following Obama around at every photo op with a foreign leader?
    You don’t think he is trying to groom her to run against Oprah in 2012? ;-)

  426. Nathan February 8, 2011 at 8:27 pm #

    Sorry I did not clarify that. The House is looking to trim 32 billion dollars from next years budget. The deficit for next year is estimated at 1.5 trillion dollars (or 1,500 billion dollars). To erase the deficit the “new” House needs 50 times more spending cuts.

  427. tootsie February 8, 2011 at 8:28 pm #

    “The superstitious Eastern Religious Poetic mind in me…”
    Has completely turned to jello. But thats not a problem. There’s always room for jello

  428. asoka February 8, 2011 at 8:29 pm #

    CORRECTION
    I watch NASCAR, too, and I have a favorite driver (whose skin is not white) … so sue me.

  429. asoka February 8, 2011 at 8:31 pm #

    Nathan said: “To erase the deficit the “new” House needs 50 times more spending cuts.”
    They talk spending cuts but they don’t know anything about spending cuts. They can’t handle spending cuts.
    It’s all Kabuki theatre, IMHO.

  430. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    That was a pretty funny post, A.
    Until you got to these two lines:
    “…and yes, I did defend Palin supporters as good people and you stupidly could not accept that I would say….”
    “stupidly”
    – Asoka –
    The real you is to be found on either side of that word. I have seen enough of your real personality to call you on it.
    I think you are tired of pretending to be “nice” and “accepting” all of the time.
    Let it out.

  431. asoka February 8, 2011 at 8:38 pm #

    Vlad said: “then some of the conspirators were caught with their fingers in the cookie jar fudging the data”
    Prove it. You are referring to the Phil Jones’ emails at the University of East Anglia’s (UEA) Climatic Research Unit (CRU) that were made public. The latest finding was that no data was fudged. It was thoroughly investigated and Phil Jones was cleared.

    The Select Committee report concluded that “the scientific reputation of Jones and the CRU was untarnished”. The CRU was commended for their maintenance of temperature proxy chronologies by the Science Assessment Panel, which also found that although some of their statistical methods may not have been the best for the purpose, better methods might not have produced significantly different results. The panel deplored the tone of much of the criticism and said some was “selective and uncharitable”, but believed the questioning would result in improvements to working practices.

  432. messianicdruid February 8, 2011 at 8:40 pm #

    “He also talks about the run up in other commodities, but fails to connect the dots to problems with our imperative of economic growth.”
    The failure is also in not attributing price increases to the shrinking unit of account {dollar}. Much of it can be attributed to “quantitative easing”, soon to be III and IV.

  433. Nathan February 8, 2011 at 8:40 pm #

    It reminds me of the scene in Wizard of Oz where the guy yells “Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain”. Americans are having a legitimate moral decline. Few people enter politics to serve anyone but themselves. I am sure it has always been that way for some but there have also been many who truly were interested in serving their fellow man. We have prospered as long as some were looking out for the many. Now few if any are looking out for the many and we all suffer for it.

  434. asoka February 8, 2011 at 8:42 pm #

    ProCon said: “Let it out.”
    =====
    Yes, my politeness is just a veneer hiding an angry Black man. Is that what you want to hear?
    It is incredible how much time is spent on pop psychology on an anonymous internet blog to try to prop up and confirm obvious prejudices.
    Admit it, ProCon, you are prejudiced against me. Let it all out, ProCon! Not.

  435. Pangolin February 8, 2011 at 8:42 pm #

    Why should we trust the future of the planet to the opinions of somebody who can’t find the return key?
    CO2 certainly does cause the Tyndall gas effect commonly known as “Global Warming” or the now commonly used “Climate Change” adopted by the Bush administration. John Tyndall established that CO2 in a bell jar heats up faster than the regular atmosphere and that diffuse concentrations of CO2 heated up the jar in relation to the relative proportion of CO2.
    It’s basic scientific fact and has been for over 100 years. Everything since has been observations to the effect that: John Tyndall was right about that CO2 stuff.
    So since you don’t regularly advocate that we consult the I-Ching or the Delphic oracles we probably can assume that you believe a scientific, that is observable, fact-based reality holds sway. Except where Global Warming is concerned.
    Bullshit.
    You just want to eat your cake and screw the starving children across the street.

  436. Vlad Krandz February 8, 2011 at 8:43 pm #

    Yeah that makes sense but the Neos have always been largely a Jewish movement and rabidly pro-Israel. I don’t see how they can be sanguine about this. Unless they’re planning something realy big like WW3 – otherwise I just don’t get it. If he is serious, then I’d say that the Neos have declined. Some have said the Jews aren’t as sharp as they used to be. In any case, they are playing a very dangerous game. I think Beck is spot on about this. The Left has made common cause with the Muslims since they both hate the West. But the Muslims will play them and not vice versa. And now, the Neos think to play too? A very dangerous game.
    Traditionally, trade and prosperity are seen as the icing on the cake but not the cake. Machiavelli thought as much and pointed out that money can’t buy friends, morality, or civic responsibility. They sure haven’t in China. But Corporations don’t care about those so they invest anyway. It may work for awhile but if the West goes that way, it might all break down. We don’t have their tolerance for it. And it sure isn’t good for innovation and free thinking – both of which we are going to need in spades.

  437. asoka February 8, 2011 at 8:44 pm #

    MessianicDruid said: “Much of it can be attributed to “quantitative easing”, soon to be III and IV. ”
    =====
    And V and VI ad infinitum. There will be no crash. There will be no inflation. Fiat money works.

  438. asoka February 8, 2011 at 8:47 pm #

    Vlad, lay off the Jew-baiting.
    Your antisemitism is embarrassing.
    I hope Jews are running everything because they are a lot smarter than me or you.
    Jews are fundamentally good people, just like you, just like me, not any different.

  439. ozone February 8, 2011 at 8:51 pm #

    “Kristol is first and foremost a neoconservative. His father started the movement, so to be consistent, he needs to push for the Democracy in the Middle East agenda, or what does he have?” -Lbendet
    ==========================
    I can hardly wait for the day when “K. the lesser” and his fellow fools and charlatans no longer get paid for spouting their bilious, destructive bloviations. Nope, that day cannot come too soon…

  440. messianicdruid February 8, 2011 at 8:56 pm #

    “If you have 13 cats in your yard – and you can’t pet a single one of them – ”
    – you have no rats.

  441. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 9:00 pm #

    Vlad –
    I ain’t particularly skeered of the liberals on CFN all that much either, sometimes.
    I do agree that there was a “rush to judgment” in the American popular press concerning AGW. This seemed to have been particularly pushed by The Weather Channel – about 3 to 5 years ago.
    Now, I think TWC is a subsidiary of CNN, and both are based in Atlanta. You can take both of these facts for what they are worth. IMHO, what these two facts are worth is, not much.
    So – bottom line, I think the popular press may have *run ahead* of the science that they were trying to report upon. And that doesn’t mean conspiracy, just Cable Channels trying to fill air time and sell commercials.
    And I do know that there a LOT of corporations that have a vested interest that lies on the *other side* of AGW, and it’s pretty easy to see that these guys, Exxon, BP, ConAgra, and the rest – are spending money to create “plausible deniability” for AGW.
    So, let us agree that liberals, conservatives, scientists, and large corporations have all conspired to muddy the water on AGW for as long as possible.
    Next question – even if AGW were 100% false – WHY and HOW would that change the dialog concerning reducing energy consumption now in the United States?
    ===================
    And on a personal note, Vlad. You’ve exercised lots of restraint and only just now mentioned race or ethnicity in a post.
    Just stick with it for a while. There is more to life than all of that. I’m not sure what, yet, but I know it down deeply. I suspect that you might, too.
    And anyway, you’re hurting your own cause when that’s your major or only frame of reference for CFN dialog. And that I can prove, if asked.

  442. asoka February 8, 2011 at 9:08 pm #

    Vlad said: “In any case, they are playing a very dangerous game.”
    =====
    Apparently games are fun … all the more so when they are dangerous. Lay off the NeoCons. They have suffered enough *cough* cakewalk *cough* embarrassment recently.

  443. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 9:12 pm #

    “Yes, my politeness is just a veneer hiding an angry Black man. Is that what you want to hear?”
    – Asoka –
    Yes, Asoka – I say without reservation that this website could benefit from the honestly rendered perspective of a black man, whether angry, happy, or otherwise.
    But I do not believe that that describes the hard kernel of your personality – and your personality is being slowly revealed.
    “Admit it, ProCon, you are prejudiced against me. Let it all out, ProCon!”
    – Asoka –
    Pick a new word, Asoka. Prejudiced is not the correct word for this situation. I gave you every benefit of every doubt for months – essentially that is the exact opposite of prejudice.
    And now, after long study and many negative encounters, I can say without reservation that I detest the way your particular persona injects itself into the online dialog on CFN. It seems that oftentimes, when a poster is digging deep and thinking hard – about something that might be really important, to him, her, or the rest of us.
    Up jumps Asoka – the Resident Impediment

  444. asoka February 8, 2011 at 9:17 pm #

    ProCon said: “I detest the way your particular persona injects itself into the online dialog on CFN.”
    So be it. I don’t really care.
    Asoka, the Proud ProCon-Labelled Resident Impediment

  445. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 9:34 pm #

    Yee haw and giddy up;
    Life is good!
    “Asoka, the Proud ProCon-Labelled Resident Impediment”
    Funny thing is, A, we’d probably get along OK in person. But first we’d want to clear the air about definitions of prejudice, honesty, and several other concepts that have surfaced along the way.
    Just be who you really are on CFN as politely as you can.
    I’ll try to do the same.

  446. asoka February 8, 2011 at 9:42 pm #

    ProCon said: “Up jumps Asoka”
    =====
    Yes, faster than a 2nd amendment militia speeding bullet, single-handedly impeding all discussions of global warming, more powerful than a locomotive powered by Thorium.

    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    Up Jumps Asoka!
    Say it loud, say it proud! I am Somebody! I am the ProCon-labeled Resident Impediment!
    =========
    P.S. Yes we would get along in person. I already like you as a person. I could learn a lot from you about the “laws of physics” LOL!
    Meanwhile, you will have to content yourself with detesting my posts. I have no intention to attack or insult you, but I will not be intimidated by you either.

  447. LewisLucanBooks February 8, 2011 at 9:52 pm #

    Oh, I don’t know…
    Re: Asoka … I still prefer Pollyanna.

  448. poorgrouch February 8, 2011 at 9:53 pm #

    This is a much better site when dealing with the problems of the Long Emergency rather than personality quarrels between posters. Can we try to stay on topic rather than have this place degenerate into name calling? Im not alone in wishing the two dominators of this thread- ProCon and Asoka would stop sniping and say something worthwhile.

  449. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 9:58 pm #

    Show us how, poorgrouch
    I’ll follow your lead

  450. poorgrouch February 8, 2011 at 10:01 pm #

    OK.
    If JHK were to update the book, The Long Emergency, what would be some new material or topics you would want him to address?

  451. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 10:10 pm #

    OK.
    If JHK were to update the book, The Long Emergency, what would be some new material or topics you would want him to address?
    -pg-
    That’s a reasonable enough question, PG, I’ll get back to you pretty quick if I can think of something.
    Meanwhile, what would you like to see in TLEII?
    Meanwhile – I had been scrolling back up the thread to see if I could springboard off of one of your contributions. Something other than “ban TooTsie,”perhaps.
    I know the personal sniping gets old to new posters – Dang, it get’s old to old posters.
    You just need to stick around and post for a while to get a real handle on it.
    I’ve gone on a new *honesty and politeness* jag for my relationships with CFN and with the world.
    “Sniping,” unfortunately, is the only weapon I have in the drawer to try to help this thread come a little closer to those two qualities.
    We’ve all got to play the cards we hold.

  452. poorgrouch February 8, 2011 at 10:23 pm #

    Although it may just be a fad, I would like to know what JHK agrees and disagrees with the TEA Party.
    I would like to know more about the future of rail travel and delivery of goods (as the President has recently called for the funding of high speed rail) Perhaps he could even devote a new book to the future redevelopment of the railways.
    I would like him to go further into the state of public education in this country. He seems to believes we will decentralize, but I wonder what education will look like in the thick of TLE. I doubt it will just go away.
    I would like him to delve into the corn pone nazism or rise of fundamental Christians as they become more politically involved. I wonder at his fear that they will become violent.
    I would like to know more about the development of electric cars (I know that’s a misplaced techno-hope) but it is becoming more and more popular, How long will that focus last?
    I would like to know more about the growth of China and India and how their thirst for oil will pan out.

  453. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 10:38 pm #

    Marlin
    I promised to get back to you about two of your questions. One was:
    “8)I keep hearing about sea level rise, swamping coastal cities. But every summer we go to the beach and the sea hasn’t risen one inch. When will the oceans start rising?”
    -marlin-
    I actually had a pretty good exchange with a US Navy Vet on this same exact subject on here about 3 weeks ago. The summary is that sea coasts and oceans are dynamic. The usual datum for a coastal chart is MLWL, AKA Mean Low Water Level – the mean or average height of the low tide at any particular location. So water levels are dynamic over a period of hours, days, and even weeks. And beaches and islands also move up and down and all around on a time scale that runs to weeks or decades – a time scale difficult for humans to see in one human lifetime.
    Disregarding all of this, it does appear that ocean levels are slowly rising, worldwide = almost 2mm per year, every year, for the last 100 years.
    If the AGW folks have interpreted the evidence correctly – then this sea level rise is likely to increase in rate in the coming decades.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_sea_levels
    #4

  454. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 10:56 pm #

    And Marlin, I will admit that your #4 is the hardest one on your list 1-10 for the average person to get around.
    I think there may be a gene for detection of hypocrisy – and it is certainly a highly evolved characteristic of the American voter.
    “4)About 9 years ago Al Gore came here to speak at the local University. (about global warming) So why did he fly in on a chartered 747 and drive here in a fleet of black limos like he was Caeser Augustus himself. I understand he own three large homes and keeps a yacht on the Tennessee river. He also owns his own jet. He tells us to reduce our global footprint. What about Al Gore’s Global footprint?”
    – marlin –
    I’ll admit that this is indefensible. Mr. Gore’s rationale would run something like:
    1. My safety demands this due to threats – which probably has some truth to it
    2. My houses/jet/whatever are models of energy efficiency and it’s important for me to be a leader in this
    3. I NEED the trappings of wealth like this to – help me think and project myself- maybe, I’m grasping at straws here, Marlin – ’cause I can’t think myself into the head of Al Gore, or anyone else with that much money.
    4. I’m BIG BAD RICH Al Gore and I deserve all this because I am Big and Bad and Rich – – –
    So, out of 10 items, this one is indefensible, Marlin, pretty much on every level. But is that really what we have operating here.
    Just because one man is a jackass on #4, does not mean that 1-3 and 5-10 are any less valid, does it?
    Did you ever see a contract that has a clause,”If any part of this document is found to be void, the balance of the contract is still valid.” Just about every contract I’ve seen in the past 10 years or so has a clause like this.
    I’d have to say that’s what we have operating here
    I’ll appreciate your feedback!
    PoC

  455. progressorconserve February 8, 2011 at 11:28 pm #

    PG
    JHK is so much a fan of the TEA party concept that he wants us to help him create his own version. ;-)
    http://kunstler.com/blog/2010/07/my-tea-party.html
    I have to say he gets a lot of stuff right in this post from last July. I appreciate you giving me a reason to post it up this week, poorgrouch.
    ===================
    As far as the book The Long Emergency and my critiques of it – or desires for topics for a sequel: From what I’ve heard The Witch of Hebron tracks TLE as a sequel. I haven’t read TWOH, and may not until my small local library gets a copy – which may take quite a while.
    You mentioned Corn Pone Nazism. I think J