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The Dreamtime

by James Howard Kunstler

     The idea that techno-industrial society is headed toward a collapse has become very unpopular the last couple of years. Thoughts (and fears) about it have been replaced by a kind of grand redemption fantasy that bears the same relation to economics that masturbation has to pornography. One way to sum up the current psychological state of the nation is that an awful lot of people who ought to know better don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground anymore. We’re witnessing the implosion of the American hive mind.

     This is what comes of divorcing truth from reality, and that process is exactly what you get in the effort to replace authentic economic activity with accounting fraud and propaganda. For five years, the Federal Reserve has been trying to offset a permanent and necessary contraction of techno-industrialism by lobbing mortar rounds of so-called “money” into its crony “primary dealer” banks in order to fuel interest rate carry trades that produce an echo in the stock markets. An echo, let us be clear, is the ghost of something, not the thing itself — in this case: value.

     The permanent contraction of techno-industrialism is necessary because the main fuel for running it has become scarcer and rather expensive, too expensive really to run the infrastructure of the United States. That infrastructure cannot be replaced now without a great deal of capital sacrifice. Paul Krugman — whom other observers unironically call Dr. Paul Krugman, conferring shamanic powers on him — wrote a supremely stupid op-ed in The New York Times today (“Stranded by Sprawl”), as though he had only noticed over the past week that the favored development pattern of our country has had adverse economic consequences. Gosh, ya think?

     Meanwhile, the public has been sold a story by nervous and wishful upholders of the status quo that we have no problem with our primary resource due to the shale oil and shale gas bonanzas that would make us “energy independent” and “the world’s leading oil exporter — Saudi America!” A related story along these lines is the imminent “American industrial renaissance.” What they leave out is that, if actually true, it would be a renaissance of robots, leaving the former (and long ago) well-paid American working class to stew in its patrimony of methadrine, incest, and tattoo “art.”

    To put it as simply as possible, the main task before this society is to change the way we live. The necessary changes are so severe and represent so much loss of previous investment that we can’t bring ourselves to think about it. For instance, both the suburbs and the big cities are toast. The destiny of the suburbs is to become slums, salvage yards, and ruins. The destiny of the big cities is to become Detroit — though most of America’s big cities (Atlanta, Houston) are hybrid monstrosities of suburbs and cities, and they will suffer the most. It is not recognized by economic poobahs such as Dr. Krugman and Thomas Friedman that the principal economic activity of Dixieland the past half century was the manufacture of suburban sprawl and now that the endeavor is over, the result can be seen in the millions of unemployed Ford F-110 owners drinking themselves into an incipient political fury.

     Then where will the people live? They will live in smaller cities and cities that succeed in downsizing sharply and in America’s currently neglected and desolate small towns and upon a landscape drastically refitted for a post-techo-industrial life that is as far removed from a Ray Kurzweil “Singularity” fantasy as the idea of civic virtue is removed from Lawrence Summers. The people will live in places with a meaningful relationship to food production.

     Many of those aforementioned swindled, misled, and debauched lumpen folk (having finally sold off their Ford-F110s) will eventually see their prospects migrate back into the realm of agriculture, or at least their surviving progeny will, as the sugar-tit of federal benefits melts away to zero, and by then the population will be much lower. These days, surely, the idea of physical labor in the sorghum rows is abhorrent to a 325-pound food-stamp recipient lounging in an air-conditioned trailer engrossed in the televised adventures of Kim Kardashian and her celebrated vagina while feasting on a KFC 10-piece bundle and a 32 oz Mountain Dew. But the hypothetical grand-kids might have to adopt a different view after the last air-conditioner sputters to extinction, and fire-ants have eaten through the particle-board floor of the trailer, and all the magical KFC products recede into the misty past where Jenny Lind rubs elbows with the Knights of the Round Table . Perhaps I wax a little hyperbolic, but you get the idea: subsistence is the real deal-to-come, and it will be literally a harder row to hoe than the current conception of “poverty.”

      Somewhere beyond this mannerist picture of the current cultural depravity is the glimmer of an idea of people behaving better and spending their waking lives at things worth doing (and worthy of their human-ness), but that re-enchantment of daily life awaits a rather harsh work-out of the reigning deformations. I will go so far to predict that the recent national mood of wishful fantasy is running out of gas and that a more fatalistic view of our manifold predicaments will take its place in a few months. It would at least signal a rapprochment of truth with reality.

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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency and the four-book series of World Made By Hand novels, set in a post economic crash American future. His most recent book is Living in the Long Emergency; Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward. Jim lives on a homestead in Washington County, New. York, where he tends his garden and communes with his chickens.

820 Responses to “The Dreamtime”

  1. Arn Varnold July 29, 2013 at 8:18 am #

    Truth with reality; now that would be refreshing.
    My vision is darker, much darker; dystopian is the by word of the moment.
    I wish it were other; but that’s not to be found; it’s too soon; not enough pain…

    • Neon Vincent July 29, 2013 at 8:51 am #

      “dystopian is the by-word of the moment.”

      That it’s the big theme of books and movies for teens this year is a sign that 1) at least young people aren’t completely oblivious to what’s going on around them and 2) Hollywood thinks it’s good business to think about collapse. That’s one part of the American Hive Mind that is recognizing reality. Too bad the rest of America is in denial.

      http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-hunger-games-dystopia-as.html

      • Arn Varnold July 29, 2013 at 9:11 am #

        While I understand; it’s not my intent to parrot any contemporary commentary.
        Much ado about nothing, IMO. Your “hive mind” comment is apropos to the present mind set and will lead “us” nowhere; again, IMO.
        I have seen nothing that leads me to think we’ll survive with our collective values intact.
        It’s up to us as individuals to maintain our values, privately, and to pass them on to worthy recipients.
        It’s in our DNA to survive by any means necessary, and that may or may not prove to be our salvation…

      • lsjogren July 29, 2013 at 9:38 am #

        I have always felt that horror movies proliferate when the “good times” are rolling and people need a little variety in their experience besides just material abundance and comfort.

        The recent raft of horror movies is not a sign of anyone having a clue, it is a sign that we are in a “mini bubble” in which many people are experiencing a little resurgence of “the good life” after the shocks of the crash of 2008.

        • Arn Varnold July 29, 2013 at 9:52 am #

          Yeah, we’re in collective denial. To face the reality, is so beyond anything we ever thought we’d have to deal with, any distraction will do.
          There’s a reckoning coming; but, I have faith the American people, after much agonizing, will actually “get it” and rally to the facts and prevail. There will be horror and death, finally come home, but we’ll rally, and battered and beaten, we’ll prevail.
          Chastened and bloodied; my hope is we’ll get it and return to our roots.
          But that may be too optimistic; I’d be curious what JHK thought about that…

  2. glassvegas July 29, 2013 at 8:18 am #

    With the onslaught of robots, maybe a 30 hour work week is in order. Save Detroit: http://youtu.be/KhDZiJ6MvBg

    • Neon Vincent July 29, 2013 at 8:34 am #

      Robots are something JHK would dismiss as techno-narcissism. The bloggers who would consider the effects of robots more seriously as a dystopian effect of the Singularity would be Stuart Staniford over at Early Warning and Chad at Hipcrime Vocab. They think that automation is a major part of the jobless recovery now. I have links to the relevant posts of theirs in an entry of mine.

      http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/2013/05/robots-are-coming-for-our-jobs.html

    • outsider July 29, 2013 at 2:20 pm #

      The 40- hour work week was won by our unionized grandfathers early in the 20th century when there were millions of industrial jobs available. Why our leaders can’t see that this model is obsolete is beyond me. In fact, industry continues to force overtime on it’s overworked aging full-timers rather than hire. A good friend of mine, for example, is forced to consistently work 60 or more hours per week in a steel mill. It’s cheaper to pay time and a half than hire now workers. Industry is killing itself long term. Where will the new consumers with money to spend on their products come from?

  3. Nicholas July 29, 2013 at 8:18 am #

    “James Howard Kunstler Breaks Ground to Build Kunstlerland.”

    “The intense organizing efforts by highly motivated individuals and organizations in preceding years for the formation of the Alliance to Reconstruct America is bearing results. Under the battle cry of “one for all and all for one,” large and small cells of the Alliance grew strong enough together to persuade Congress to establish the Department of Homeland Reconstruction. Federal funding for Reconstruct America projects is now available for qualifying nongovernmental organizations.”

    James,

    The above is fictional, yet I can see the headline news just a few years down the road. I can’t imagine a more qualified person than you, or a better institution than yours to utilize federal grants in building a nonprofit-managed, mixed-use, live/work, compact, urban village with a hybrid economy and social contract. Such a community would demonstrate all of your ideas in a pioneering, socioeconomic entrepreneurship. Massive Open Socioeconomic Self-organization (MOSS), and all the supplementary tools and materials are now freely available from Holigent.Org under the Creative Commons license.

    It is time to physically present a grand, socioeconomic solution for the future of this nation and our planet. The pursuit of building “Kunstlerland” as a demonstration model community for social, economic, and environmental justice, quality and sustainability would be a noble and necessary project. More details here:
    http://www.holigent.org

    Considering that the only thing still working in our dysfunctional system is the political Iron Triangle, and knowing that most corrupt systems work well for the corruptors, let’s work the system the way the system works. When mature and muscular, the Alliance to Reconstruct America will “encourage” Congress to allocate reconstruction funds.

    We need to encourage students, along with their educational institutions and the construction industry (the prime stakeholders for jobs and a livable future), to form the core of the Alliance to Reconstruct America. This could be an exciting game to play if we could pull it off, and a seriously fun subject to talk about for your followers between reading your Monday blogs.

    Best to you and all your readers,

    Nicholas

    • James Howard Kunstler July 29, 2013 at 8:53 am #

      Nicholas–
      The kind of national reconstruction you propose really requires a major shift in the collective imagination and a consensus leadership. I would not volunteer to lead what in effect sounds like a dictatorship. There are many competent and thoughtful people in this country, but they are overwhelmed for the moment by a trashy and meretricious culture — which is losing momentum. Things will change.
      –JHK

      • anti dod July 29, 2013 at 11:10 am #

        And 5 years ago you had favorable feelings toward ‘Mister Hope n Change’, unlike many of us who saw him for what he is.

        • Piper Michael July 29, 2013 at 12:38 pm #

          anti dod,
          and unlike yourself, he has eyes that see, and a brain that works… which implies that he is able to change his opinion based on new information. I, like you, saw this collective monster coming, but James gave him a chance to prove himself, that is admirable. It saddens me that you, and I, were right, but I’m sure James isn’t so thrilled either.

          James,
          Exactly what my comment was going to be, a proto-dictator system worse than the Black Caesar we have. The collectivists are real good at the “sweet words on the tongue”, but, their Envy and Empathy act is getting old as we now see that it “turns bitter in the belly”.

          Unfortunately, the other side is not so good at their own idealistic notions of creepy capitalism. We need a new ‘ism’ James…

          Perhaps the oldest ism of them all? Tribalism?
          The only way for anything else to work, is by understanding what ails us, and that begins at understanding MONEY and debt and living within the EROEI structure of Earth.

          But first, we have to kill all the Bankers, lawyers, politicians, and suits that love this system.
          Oh, wait… they’re gonna do it to themselves…
          Never mind.

          But there is not ‘nothing’ that we can do about the energy situation, it will take a new mindset of old things. It was even predicted long ago James…

          “and they shall pound their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks, and neither shall they learn war, anymore”…

          This tracks with what I believe was the best solution, your solution, the Locomotive. Turning to old ways, and making them new again, while learning to live within Earth’s means.
          What have we learned over the last 4000 odd years of centralized empires? Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and centralized power corrupts whole societies… that no man can ‘represent’ another, to give another man your ‘power’ is too great a temptation.

          Now, after the die off, lets all learn our lesson, No more centralized anything, money, gov or religions. The Natives Americans had it right… now, who were the Barbarians again?

          • Janos Skorenzy July 29, 2013 at 1:06 pm #

            Warfare will get smaller, that’s all. You don’t think the Indians did it? The Papuans? The Africans? You don’t know anthropology – the real deal, not the PC crap that’s been peddled since the days Boas and Margaret Mead.

            Go to a museum and look at the weapons of the Indians, specifically the war clubs that had no hunting function. Perhaps that will jar you mind. Believing that Whites are uniquely evil is the very essence of contemporary Liberalism – which must die along with Conservatism.

      • wardad July 29, 2013 at 11:57 am #

        Jim, Listen to this http://www.findtheconversation.com/episode-46-mark-mykleby/

        Right up our alley.

      • Karah July 29, 2013 at 1:42 pm #

        Good day JHK,

        “rapprochment” should contain an “e” after the “ch”

        you’re welcome!

        I learned two new words today because of your post.

        Thanks!

        “The people will live in places with a meaningful relationship to food production.”

        Had to think about what would make food more significant or intentional in our lives…
        Because we live in an illusion of abundance of whatever we could want, a cornucopia of products (not sources) designed to coax more and more money from our paychecks, most people do not understand what it takes to actually FEED themselves, the family and the community. It’s just there and always been there. You have summed this up nicely with the term “1200 mile Caesar Salad” or something like that. This is a big reason why suburbia must fail in a market driven by cheap oil and gas. How will suburbia get its food? Will the local organic farm be sufficient to satisfy people who are used to the taste of fried and overly processed foods? Will they know what to do with a beet or turnip? Might these people suffer major sugar withdrawals like poor Trayvon Martin recently; he just had to run and get his skittles at great cost to himself? I would describe a major part of our collective predicament: babies having babies. I see more and more people who look like overgrown toddlers waddling through the parking lots and aisles. I believe most of the college debt is paid off by the family or another “sponsor”. Our society has imposed more and more unrealistic expectations upon the next generation. Encouraging the idea that “research and development” is the key to a sustainable future. Agrarian cultures have been doing fine for centuries with very little innovations. Corporations like Monsanto and their propaganda have lead people to believe the land can produce more than it was designed to produce in order to meet increasing demand.
        What does food mean to corporate America?

        • Karah July 29, 2013 at 1:55 pm #

          “Ben Schaefer
          07.29.2013
          @B_Sumerville- You can never prove GMOs are 100% safe. You can never prove anything is 100% safe. But that same insecticide that is in GMO corn is the same thing used by a vast amount of organic farmers. So if you fear GMOs due to this you should also fear the organic industry as well. But propaganda has tricked many people into thinking “organic” equals safe. And GMO equals “unnatural”. But what you may not know is that nothing you eat is ‘natural’. Corn as you see it now has never existed naturally in nature. Have you ever gone on a walk and seen broccoli growing in a ditch? These crops that everyone eats are all ‘unnatural’ But that in no why means they are unsafe. It takes years of R&D to get GMOs to market. They are tested and retested more than any food you ever buy.
          As for your health questions, cancer rates and mortality rates are actually down. Autism is up, but no one even knew what Autism was 20 years ago. And as for diabetes, let’s face it, Americans are just not healthy. But that should be blamed on fast food and processed food, not GMOs.” – http://gmoanswers.com/ask/how-can-you-be-sure-gmo-foods-wont-affect-human-health-long-term

          This made sense to me.

  4. Carol Newquist July 29, 2013 at 8:23 am #

    the result can be seen in the millions of unemployed Ford F-110 owners drinking themselves into an incipient political fury.

    A lot of F-250s as well. In fact, they’re now a favorite target of thieves, they’re so ubiquitous these days. I have to chuckle when I see a line of these pampered behemoths at the local car wash. Aren’t trucks supposed to be rugged and dirty? Not anymore. They’re now pampered Prima Donnas….like their increasingly unemployed owners. Where have all the cowboys gone? To the car wash with their air-conditioned, sissified metal horses, that’s where.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/07/09/f250-escalade-chevrolet-sierra-often-stolen-loss-/2500647/

    The current boom in the popularity of big pickups is taking place among thieves as well as ordinary buyers.

    Full-size trucks have the highest insurance claim frequency of any group of vehicles, the insurance industry Highway Loss Data Institute reports. The HLDI claims data cover 2010 through 2012 models.

    Thieves’ favorite: Ford F-250 Super Duty crew-cab with four-wheel drive (4×4). It’s a heavy-duty model used more often by tradespeople and owners doing serious towing or hauling than the gentrified truckers who buy many of the standard-duty pickups.

  5. kansas ham on wry July 29, 2013 at 8:28 am #

    Paul Krugman’s NYT column today was instructive. The title (‘Stranded by Sprawl’) is promising, but reading the text adds up to a fundfamental misanalysis of the problem. While bemoaning inner city poverty, he comes to the conclusion that it’s the ‘job opportunities’ clustered in suburbia that are not in close enough proximity to those who need them. The problem is that work as Gap employees at the mall or aromatherapists are merely busywork that props up the rickety economic edifice. When petroleum becomes unaffordable, these jobs will blow away in the wind like the fluff they are. But hey, give Krugman props. He used the word ‘sprawl’ in an article. For the Grey Lady, that amounts to a paradigm shift.

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    • anti dod July 29, 2013 at 11:09 am #

      Krugman is a useful idiot. Has he ever been right or predicted events with accuracy?

      He used the word ‘sprawl’ in an article…well maybe NYT is for the city and against the suburbanites.

      • kansas ham on wry July 29, 2013 at 12:35 pm #

        I take my solace where I can find it. Admittedly, it’s a low bar to hurdle. Snails could clear it with ease.

  6. Neon Vincent July 29, 2013 at 8:28 am #

    The ironic part of calling this era “The Dreamtime” is that it refers to the creation myth of Australia’s original people, as a far distant time in the past, not the present of the U.S. and other industrial nations. It also smacks of a title John Michael Greer the Archdruid would use. I know you’re acquainted with Greer, as you’ve interviewed him on your podcast. He shares your opinion about technology not being the savior of modern industrial civilization.

    As for Dr. Krugman (the man does have a Ph.D., so calling him Doctor is actually appropriate), I think it’s better late than never that he recognizes the deleterious economic effects of sprawl. Looks like it took the bankruptcy of Detroit to get him to acknowledge the problem. At least something good has already come out of this crisis.

    I did allude that I’d write up something about Krugman saying that sprawl killed Detroit. I haven’t gotten around to it yet, but now that you’ve brought up the subject, I think I will. What I did instead was respond to janet, who mocked the idea of the private sector picking up the slack in Detroit. The for-profit sector won’t, but the non-profit private sector is trying. It won’t succeed, but it certainly is making the attempt.

    http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/2013/07/at-least-detroit-has-great-charities.html

  7. Nastarana July 29, 2013 at 8:31 am #

    I can’t help thinking that the wished for more fatalistic view of our manifold predicaments is still more than a few months away.

    Folks who prefer homemade and homegrown to fancy-from-the-store are still having to contend with the disapprobation and contempt of their neighbors, including outright hatred on the part of some immigrant groups who think DIYers should be hiring them instead of doing for themselves.

    I am as disgusted as anyone by the fact that our former working class seems to spend its life now in a drug and alcohol induced pornographic haze, but I think it is also necessary to understand that Americans have been subjected for decades to a barrage of propaganda which was deliberately intended and planned to convert Americans of the middle and lower classes from producers to consumers.

  8. Carol Newquist July 29, 2013 at 8:31 am #

    These days, surely, the idea of physical labor in the sorghum rows is abhorrent to a 325-pound food-stamp recipient lounging in an air-conditioned trailer engrossed in the televised adventures of Kim Kardashian and her celebrated vagina while feasting on a KFC 10-piece bundle and a 32 oz Mountain Dew.

    This sentence is like manna from heaven for me. It feeds the soul. It’s vintage JHK.

    • sprezzatura July 29, 2013 at 9:12 am #

      Yeah, I loved that!

      “the misty past where Jenny Lind rubs elbows with the Knights of the Round Table”

      is a great kicker!

    • hardmoneyjoe July 29, 2013 at 11:21 am #

      Possibly the funniest and most appropriate sentence I have ever read!

    • wardad July 29, 2013 at 12:12 pm #

      This is why I love Jim . . . and my wife can stand him. She thinks he a misanthrope. I think he just hates fat, lazy, stupid people.

  9. Nastarana July 29, 2013 at 8:41 am #

    Neon, did not some young entrepreneur who wanted to build vertical farms in Detroit say “We need to create scarcity?” That last remark got a lot of attention on gardening fora, as you can perhaps imagine. Would that be the same individual whose company bought public land in Detroit for tree farms?

    There has been some attention over the past few years on gardening fora and websites, sorry, I don’t have any links offhand, to attempts by Detroiters to convert abandoned land in Detroit to food production. Do you know anything about this? How much of such gardening or urban farming is being done in Detroit?

  10. ozone July 29, 2013 at 8:44 am #

    Jim,
    You sez:
    ” This is what comes of divorcing truth from reality, and that process is exactly what you get in the effort to replace authentic economic activity with accounting fraud and propaganda. For five years, the Federal Reserve has been trying to offset a permanent and necessary contraction of techno-industrialism by lobbing mortar rounds of so-called “money” into its crony “primary dealer” banks in order to fuel interest rate carry trades that produce an echo in the stock markets. An echo, let us be clear, is the ghost of something, not the thing itself — in this case: value.”

    I still don’t get what’s so friggin’ hard to understand about this!!
    Sure there’s thousands of Carnival-cruise-ships-full of flabby folk who’d rather NOT understand it, because understanding it makes all the comforts and kingly/queenly luxuries go away.

    Hell, those are going away as we stand gaping anyway; might as well get busy with “other arrangements” that don’t include fantasizing along with the teevee talking heads (also well-known as purveyors of sponsored LIES).

    Excellent essay and tandem podcast. The heels of the Ruby Slippers are wearing out from all the wishing and attendant clicking. (We now await the arrival of purveyors of sponsored lies to these very pages! What could be a finer contrast to reality, I ask you?)

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  11. germ July 29, 2013 at 8:48 am #

    Just driven 4000 miles across the US from SF to Boston.

    I can assure you that the fire-ants are thriving!

    Most folks don’t have the language to comprehend let alone discuss what is unfolding before their very eyes.

    It’s an extraordinary scenario :-((

    • Warren July 29, 2013 at 11:20 am #

      Actually the fire ants are not thriving, there is a new ant called the “Crazy ant” like the fire ant from South America, so called because they run around like crazy, they are displacing the fire ants.

  12. Malthus July 29, 2013 at 8:54 am #

    I really wish this would all happen as quickly as possible. Enough pussy footing around while drinking the kool aid. Let this pile of dung go down now. Its historical and many will be histarical. What fun

    • ozone July 29, 2013 at 9:07 am #

      My guess would be that when the scrambling for foodstuffs begins, fragmentation and disorder will follow posthaste.
      (Got gum’mint cheese? Does the gum’mint gots gum’mint cheese?)

  13. chomskyite July 29, 2013 at 9:17 am #

    Always good writing to be found here.

    But parts of Dixie are doing incredibly well now and Big-Ag is far from dead. They will be among the last cut off from the teat, as they’re still actually producing something to be exported. Remember producing? Hard to imagine but as late as the early 80’s there were still mom and pop factories just outside of any large city producing a myriad of textiles, fixtures and tools. Now they’re McMansions with $15,000 per year of property taxes levied on them. We traded production for consumption and will pay the price for our stupidity. But not to fear the military will always be there to kick the wrong guy’s butt for you.

    • ozone July 29, 2013 at 9:31 am #

      Dixie is also known for “producing” its’ camo-clad and helmeted youngsters.
      Can they possibly be considered an “export”? (After all, we’ve been exporting them hither and yon for some time now; must be good for the GDP’s bottom line.)

      What will be the upshot when Big Ag finally succeeds in cornering the market in food and has poisoned every particle of formerly useful farmland? (In case we hadn’t noticed, that’s the direction they’re careening in.)

  14. m111ark July 29, 2013 at 9:40 am #

    Change.

    We ain’t seen nuthin yet.

    However, the most basic change that must occur is to change the way money (works). Debt-money must be replaced with money. Until that happens, everything else is just window dressing. To imagine that change taking place leads to a very dark place… “they” will not give up their privileged position peacefully.

  15. Nastarana July 29, 2013 at 9:50 am #

    Here is a portrait of what one world made by hand (the article actually used that phrase) looks like.

    http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/07/transylvania-hay/nicolson-text

    Chomskyite, Americans “traded production for consumption” because they were TOLD by an array of experts, you should excuse the expression, from TV presenters to TV advertising to educators to politicians and others that production was dull, yesterdays news, old hat, etc. etc., and that consumption was the new wave of the future that was going to make us all beautiful, sexy and prosperous.

    Keep in mind that the true function of mass advertising, beyond the selling of products, is to set out the limits of what is to be considered socially acceptable.

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  16. George July 29, 2013 at 10:05 am #

    “We’re witnessing the implosion of the American hive mind.”

    You know, for the past eight or so years, every time I attempt to add a comment to a Paul Krugman op-ed that suggests any obvious connection between “peak oil” and his subject de jour, it was never posted. After about the first year, I suspect I was put on the “Troll List” and automatically excluded even if I didn’t mention anything about “Peak Oil”. It just seems that there’s some sort of editorial taboo against any mention of the subject in the print and broadcast media.

    What’s even more interesting is that most politicians from the established political parties seem to go out of their way to avoid discussion of peak oil as well. The president, despite having a whole slew of strategic planners at his disposal, obtusely references the subject only occasionally. They know what’s going on. They know the story. Why the taboo?

    It’s interesting to note that returning from a recent business trip to Argentina, a colleague reported that it seemed as if the entire country was mobilizing for a national response to “the energy crisis at our doorstep” (as President Cristina Elisabet Fernández de Kirchner referred to it).

    Perhaps this taboo is part to blame for the implosion?

    http://www.thesisa.org

    • Delcimore July 29, 2013 at 10:19 am #

      The last politician to comment extensively on peak oil was the Republican 6th District Congressman from Maryland – Roscoe Bartlett – he got rededistricted out of office in 2012.
      He also was one of the few to speak in support of hardening the electrical grid against EMP or solar flares.

  17. Hands4u July 29, 2013 at 10:13 am #

    My sons 15 & 18 and I were in the car on Sunday listening to MPR/NPR news, and they both piped in “Thats so depressing, can we turn it off?” I did, but whats even more sad is that in reality, we can’t.

  18. Nastarana July 29, 2013 at 10:20 am #

    About the poster known as ‘Janet’ and taste:

    I once initiated a thread on another forum some years ago on the topic of writers who should have received a Nobel Prize for Literature but did not. My entries included: Jorge Amado and Chinua Achebe, I believe I would now add the name of Vikram Seth.

    On another forum, back in the 90s, I answered the what are the five greatest novels question thus:

    Tales of Genji, the novel known in the English speaking world as The Golden Lotus, The Charterhouse of Parma, I Promesi Sposi, and I think the last novel which Amado published before he died.

    The problem I have with your list, other than I have no idea who Donna Tartt might be, is that no other name on it has not been the beneficiary of NYT bestseller media hype.

    • ozone July 29, 2013 at 10:51 am #

      “There will be no deviation from the officially-sanctioned status quo and you will wait patiently for it to come to your rescue should you find yourself its’ victim!”

      (Translated from FUSA-ian per “The Sponsored Screed of Ja’soka the Mudhutter”)

      The book listing handily explained.

      • Nastarana July 29, 2013 at 11:45 am #

        Sorry, Ozone, but that was a bit too obscure for me.

        What is FUSA-ian?

        • ozone July 29, 2013 at 11:58 am #

          lol Sorry for that.
          That would be the bureaucratically approved language of the “Former United States of America”. 😉

          • Nastarana July 29, 2013 at 12:26 pm #

            LOL thank you for giving me a good laugh this morning.

  19. LifeSupport July 29, 2013 at 10:40 am #

    “To put it as simply as possible, the main task before this society is to change the way we live. The necessary changes are so severe and represent so much loss of previous investment that we can’t bring ourselves to think about it.”

    Yes. And, to change the way people live their lives, it is first necessary to change the way they think. It’s tempting to view this primarily as a “messaging problem”. If we could just get them to listen, etc. The thing is, it’s not just that so many people can’t bring themselves to think about it; they harder they are pressed to do that, the more energy they will divert to the shields.

    It’s like trying to persuade an alcoholic, against his will, that he has a serious drinking problem. Even if he doesn’t get up and wallk right out of the room, he’ll find some way to counter every argument you make, often with a surprising degree of rhetorical skill. After all, defending the way one thinks and lives is always a more attractive alternative to changing the way one thinks and lives. We have to experience directly the consequences of our flawed thinking by feeling the pain that comes from building an entire life around it. It’s just human nature. In what I would call “recovery society”, it’s referred to as “hitting bottom”, and is often regarded as a necessary precursor to any hope for turning things around — but, of course, only for those who survive the experience. And for some, the approach may be imperceptibly gradual; “hitting bottom” may come in the form of a sudden realiziation that they’ve been living at rock bottom for years. It’s amazing what humans can come to tolerate if they have time to adjust, and a firmly fixed mindset to cling to.

    With heroin addicts, it tends to work a little differently. The alcoholic may persuade himself that he’s merely a “heavy drinker”, but the nature of heroin addiction does not easily facilitate such cognitive dissonance. Most heroin addicts know they’re heroin addicts; they just don’t see any way to get clear of it.

    As trite as it may be to apply the metaphor of addiction to our dependence on oil (and the extravagant and massively wasteful lifestyles it has permitted), at least it’s a metaphor that works. Oil is a substance, and we are abusing it. There’s nothing quite like an SUV, or a Ford-Fwhatever, to convey the message, “I’m not an oil addict; I’m just a heavy user — and damn proud of it, by the way.”

    The question of “where will the people live?” will therefore depend a lot on how many survive the collective experience of “hitting bottom” toward which this nation of substance abusers is clearly headed. At one time, the question, “where will the people live?” largely answered itself; it was inseparable from the question, “what will the people eat?” Far too many are still focused on the question, “what will the people drive?”, which really underscores the lack of a full appreciation of the nature and scope of the challenge we’re facing.

    A full unleashing of the “incipient political fury” mentioned above is something I find myself welcoming and dreading at the same time. Some of the potential consequences are too gruesome to contemplate, but in the end, the frog-in-a-pot-brought-gradually-to-a-boil scenario isn’t much prettier, if you really look at it.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 29, 2013 at 1:15 pm #

      I once read an article that warned that during a power outage the worse thing would be that ATMs wouldn’t work.

    • ozone July 30, 2013 at 9:01 am #

      Very astute. Thanks.

      Are we allowed to speak of the “incipient political fury”? (The watchers may not have tumbled to what that phrase really implies.)
      That will be a very ugly phase to witness (if one should survive it), but it will happen unless “the authorities” have plenty of free food to hand out to the milling masses. Food, water, shelter: the ultimate human realities. No delusions or wishes provide acceptable replacements.

  20. K-Dog July 29, 2013 at 10:43 am #

    Necessary changes are so severe and represent so much loss of previous investment that we can’t bring ourselves to think about it.

    The missing link, not really not so missing, but not being able to think about necessary changes makes it so. The ‘so much loss of previous investment‘ is the rub. A change in power structure might have allowed the old Norse of the collapsed Greenland colony to survive but extinction it appears may have been preferred to losing power and rearranging social structure and expectations to create lifestyles with a future.

    But changes in lifestyles are coming. It can happen the hard way or the easy way and the country has chosen the hard painful way.

    Hearing our jingoist Mr. Change we can believe in prezident giving a speech a few days ago at a Washington war memorial lifted right from the cold war 50’s inspired zero confidence. Our leaders seem to have no grip on reality and all. They live in bubbles seeing only what they want to see and what benefits them. Reality be dammed, out of sight and out of mind as long as they make out.

    A good title to this weeks article, and those who have ventured to my article last week know why I think so.

    http://chasingthesquirrel.blogspot.com/2013/07/dreamtime.html

    A link to my post last weeks. This week’s title is ‘Out Standing’. The end of the above link shows last weeks title. Coincidence? Yeah, we just happen to all be dreaming, we live in the dreamtime.

    Everyone have a great week. I’m going to google sorghum and check out Krugman. In that order.

    Support this blog on PatreonSupport this blog on Substack
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    • K-Dog July 29, 2013 at 10:58 am #

      I hate typos when I read what I’ve posted, oh well.

      Sorghum:

      Sorghum grows in a wide range of temperature, high altitudes, toxic soils and can recover growth after some drought.

      It has four features that make it one of the most drought-resistant crops.

      * It has a very large root-to-leaf surface area.
      * In times of drought, it will roll its leaves to lessen water loss by transpiration.
      * If drought continues, it will go into dormancy rather than dying.
      * Its leaves are protected by a waxy cuticle.

      Drought resistance will be important for long emergency crops. It also does well in toxic soils.

      • Nastarana July 29, 2013 at 12:28 pm #

        Sorghum is a most useful plant, a source of an excellent syrup which I have used in baking with very good results, grain, and biomass. Not to forget the broomstraw! It is unfortunately not hardy, but, along with hemp, could be a good alternative crop for tobacco farmers.

        • Janos Skorenzy July 29, 2013 at 1:17 pm #

          No he just said it was hardy. What are you doing to hurt the sorghum, Nasta?

          • Nastarana July 29, 2013 at 1:45 pm #

            Oh, really? If so, next season I will plant some. However, what Pacific Northwesterners consider hardy can’t necessarily be grown in upstate NY.

  21. janet July 29, 2013 at 10:43 am #

    Kansas Ham on Wry said: “But hey, give Krugman props. He used the word ‘sprawl’ in an article. For the Grey Lady, that amounts to a paradigm shift.”

    Criticizing Krugman for just now using the word sprawl is a bit unfair. JHK first published about sprawl in 1996 in <Home from Nowhere.

    One could just as easily (and unfairly) ask why JHK has not published books on international economics. Krugman has hundreds of publications on banks, markets, industrialization, trade, etc.

    JHK comes out of architecture, not economics. Krugman comes out of economics, not sprawl. So, to criticize Krugman on the basis of one word is a cheap shot.

    Krugman has received international recognition, the Nobel Prize, for his work. Krugman has been addressing real world problems far longer than JHK. JHK was a bit late to the party, only recently waking up to international economic shenanigans.

    Just to drive the point home, and prove how JHK was late to the party, Krugman has more publications on economics in the year 1988 than JHK has in his whole life. Krugman was addressing real world problems whilst JHK was still writing fiction.

    For example, in 1988 JHK published three books of fiction:

    Thunder Island

    Embarrassment of Riches

    The Hunt

    For that same year, 1988, Krugman has 37 publications and they weren’t novels. Here are a few titles:

    International economics : theory and policy

    Strategic trade policy and the new international economics

    Target zones and exchange rate dynamics

    Market-based debt-reduction schemes

    Australia and the Pacific economy

    Differences in income elasticities and trends in real exchange rates

    Deindustrialization, reindustrialization, and the real exchange rate

    Financing vs. forgiving a debt overhang

    EFTA and 1992

    The exchange rate, asset valuation and capital formation in the open economy

    Essays on exchange rate movements and the behavior of U.S. import prices and quantities

    If you include JHK’s works of fiction, JHK still has fewer than 100 publications to his name. Krugman has over 600 publications and they aren’t novels; they deal with the real world.

    I am glad JHK finally got around to addressing real life problems in 1996, but he can’t hold a candle to Krugman, who started writing on the real world in the 1970s. JHK can only hope to gain some stature by criticizing Krugman, but the reality is they simple are not in the same league.

    • LifeSupport July 29, 2013 at 11:13 am #

      I’m afraid I can’t agree with your premise that real-world problems cannot be effectively addressed in works of fiction. The wildly successful FOX business model is based on the premise that most Americans would prefer being entertained to being informed. If you’re expecting Joe sixpack to come home from work, flop down in his LazyBoy, and pick up a book on economics, you’re living in an alternative reality. Package your message in story form, and you may have a chance. Uncle Tom’s Cabin was a work of fiction, yet its effect on the political mood of this country was as powerful as any non-fiction work could ever hope to be.

    • Matt Holbert July 29, 2013 at 11:57 am #

      Spoken like a true Keynesian…

      I think that a more accurate description of Kunstler is that he is a critical-thinking journalist who recognized earlier than most that sprawl was a problem. He wrote about it eloquently and colorfully. The next step for a critical thinker is to realize that Peak Oil is a reality. He wrote about that as well.

      Krugman, on the other hand, has been locked in an ideology for his entire career. What he “produces” reflects that ideological prison. I would agree that they are not in the same league. Krugman plays the field in the prison league whereas Kunstler is a freelance agent in the liberty league.

    • kansas ham on wry July 29, 2013 at 12:58 pm #

      Nobody is disputing how much Krugman has published or that it has resonance amongst the intelligensia. And I agree with his premise that the ladder for upward socioeconomic mobility has had most of its rungs cut out. But in this instance, quantity does not necessarily translate to quality. The point of JHK* (and me) was the relevance of the most recent NYT posting to the problem he discusses. Krugman’s solution of ‘”smart growth” urban strategies, which try to promote compact centers with access to public transportation’ sounds like an attempt to perpetuate the current sclerotic system by rearranging and relabeling the component pieces. The destination remains the same. The route is a little more circuitous and scenic.

      *my apologies to JHK if in attempting to speak on his behalf, I put words in his mouth he disagrees with.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 29, 2013 at 1:20 pm #

      Well that’s the problem: economics is controlled by prostitutes in the service of psychopaths. For example, the idea of tariffs is automatically discounted. You wont make it thru Grad School is you don’t. And that’s a complete disconnect from reality since the tariff is a nation builder and maintainer. Explanation? Our Elite are against Nations so their Economists are too. See how it works?

    • JL Eagan July 29, 2013 at 5:18 pm #

      It certainly is fair to criticize Paul Krugman for seemingly just having some sort of waking moment about suburban sprawl as a problem for cities.

      This gets to something basic, a real peek at essence, the problem that can be found in a lot of areas in the form of blindness from over-specialization. This was covered nicely in the recent Kunstlercast with guest Charlie Hall; a very simple idea… the notion of economics based in actual reality.

      Dude! What a concept!

      Starting into some comparison of “Krugman v. Kunstler Smackdown!” (subtitled “oh yeah? what’s that Kunstler guy done?”) is pretty silly stuff, but if you want to go down that road, then there are real live practical point lessons to derive.

      Incidentally, pulling out my copy of The Geography of Nowhere reveals that Kunstler was starting to write about the subject no later than 1993, 20 years ago, and nailing the problems on the head.

      Much more to the point, the view broadened out considerably into a whole generalized view of many things all interacting and working together (or, if you like, malfunctioning together), when he wrote The Long Emergency, a book way more valuable to humanity trying to sort out what the fuck is going on than anything Krugman has written that I know of.

      But Krugman, we’re told, wrote things such as:

      “Target zones and exchange rate dynamics”

      “Differences in income elasticities and trends in real exchange rates”

      Well, alrighty, then.

      I quote:
      “JHK can only hope to gain some stature by criticizing Krugman, but the reality is they simple are not in the same league.”

      I seriously doubt that Kunstler gives half a rat’s ass about “gaining stature” by addressing what Paul Krugman says.

      People can have fun getting into games of “oh yeah? where’s your PhD and Nobel Prize in economics, Mister Smartypants?”, but I know that for myself, comparing these two guys, I know which I find more useful as, let’s say, a useful guide to actual reality.

      JLE

      • ozone July 29, 2013 at 8:43 pm #

        JLE,
        Thanks for that! I’d say you whacked that particular mole a mortal blow. (Well…. not really; a paid distractionary provocateur doesn’t give up their ‘job’ that easily.)

        I used a quote from JLE in last week’s non-understanding-fest; I hope you don’t mind. (Yes, I did attribute it to your actual name. ;))
        …And I heartily endorse and appreciate your muted ravings and unhinged yammerings!

  22. Warren July 29, 2013 at 10:55 am #

    “divorcing truth from reality” Kind of like voting to re elect Obama, in spite of the fact that he has failed to address these issues, and anticipating that he will do things differently in his second term. ey Jim

  23. Smoky Joe July 29, 2013 at 10:56 am #

    “the result can be seen in the millions of unemployed Ford F-110 owners drinking themselves into an incipient political fury.”

    And off JHK goes on a Damned Yankee’s anti-Southern rant.

    He loses credibility in critiquing our region’s Bubba-Culture (so rife for ridicule) by making a cardinal city-boy’s mistake. There ain’t no Ford F-110. It’s a F-150, 250, or 350 (this is the “big dog”). Old-timers will recall the F-100 or, if really old, the Ford F-1.

    The rest of this post follows the typical JHK script against the South. While a good deal of it rings true, he’d only have to go 10 miles from his Washington County retreat to find knuckle-draggers with Confederate Battle-Flag decals in the rear windows of their pickups.

    I’ve often said “The South IS the problem,” but not in the cartoonish way JHK claims. The South suffers from its heritage of slavery and a lost war it cannot forget, plus a nexus of anti-science and over-religiosity. It won’t face facts until forced to do so, often by Federal power. It generates more clownish politicos per capita than any other region of the nation.

    It gets very prickly if outsiders, especially Yankees, point these facts out.

    The South will suffer mightily if (not a given) Suburbia and Central AC fail. But sales of Ford trucks are up up up! Mr. Kunstler, as is domestic oil production (yeah, it may fail in a few years). It may be an “echo bubble” to soon burst, but we won’t go into “A World Made By Hand” so easily down here. I’d suspect the South would be more like Mad Max than Union Grove (or Tobacco Road, another JHK touchstone). This time, Jeeter will drive in his F-150 to the Captain’s big house, and Jeeter will shoot him.

    PS: JHK omitted Honey Boo-Boo from his rant, too!

    • RB July 29, 2013 at 11:16 am #

      “more clownish politicians”

      Seriously? I only wish we had a Weiner like you do up north. That yankee pol has given us a lot of laughs. How about Rangel “screw taxes–they’r for the lil folks”. Bloomberg “I will manage your entire life”. Ted “drown’em if you got’em” Kennedy. “Don’t worry Marilyn, we’ll relieve you of your misery” (Kennedys). Barney Frank “side business out of my apartment”? Just going by what them yankee papers print mind you. Lard ass Christie anyone? I wish our pols were only a tenth as humorous as your clowns. Send us some.

      Now, with that out of the way, the ugly, historical fact is that through most of history, the vast, vast majority of people everywhere have lived in abject poverty and desperation. Briefly, post WW II, things picked up but now is fading rapidly to the normal state of things.

      So what? What are you going to do about it? Little towns are not going to come back to life—ever. You cannot live in them. Many are decrepit with little or no infrastructure remaining. No money to fix it and no motivation. Burn them and spread the ashes.

      Please dear Lord, send a plague and delete 90 percent of us.

    • ozone July 29, 2013 at 11:50 am #

      I think RB is correct. Most all politicians present a cardboard cut-out to vote for which hides the ‘inner weasel’ beneath. All of ’em pretty laughable if they weren’t so damned counter-productive or downright destructive.

      Sorry for giving offense with the ‘camo-clad youngsters of Dixie’ remark. Please advise as to why ‘the South’ should disproportionately be providing cannon fodder for the Liars in Charge. (I suspect it’s more of an economic advantage that underpins it, nicely covered by jingoism and family tradition, but I could be hugely mistaken.) Thanks.

  24. Scott Kieser July 29, 2013 at 11:21 am #

    Dear Mr. Kunstler:

    One minor correction, if I may. The model number for the Ford truck you referenced in your blog post is the Ford F150. I look forward to reading your commentary on a regular basis.

    Sincerely,
    -Scott Kieser

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  25. janet July 29, 2013 at 11:29 am #

    JHK said: … and fire-ants have eaten through the particle-board floor of the trailer…

    While I enjoyed this prose, I must correct a factual error. Fire ants are not going to chew through particle-board. Even termites don’t like the stuff.

    Of the five commercially-available wood-based composites: softwood plywood (SWP), hardwood plywood (HWP), medium density fiberboard (MDF), oriented strand board (OSB) and particleboard (PB), the most resistant to termites is MDF, followed closely by particle-board. Fire-ants are not interested in these wood-based composites. Termites are.

    To add insult to injury, not only are fire-ants not a problem for composite wood products, they are natural predators of the termites who do damage wood.

    For those of you who build with wood (instead of earth) and have these insect problems, here is a World Made By Hand hint: cut-ends provide decay fungi and termites with easy access or penetration. Hence, the importance of remedial treatment of processed building components at construction sites. Though it would be better if you just build with adobe bricks.

    • alpha mail July 29, 2013 at 11:38 am #

      “…build with adobe bricks…”

      Careful, Asoka, you’re giving yourself away, honey.

      • ozone July 29, 2013 at 11:59 am #

        “There will be no deviation from the officially-sanctioned status quo and you will wait patiently for it to come to your rescue should you find yourself its’ victim!”

        (Translated from FUSA-ian per “The Sponsored Screed of Ja’soka the Mudhutter”)

      • Nastarana July 29, 2013 at 1:48 pm #

        Adobe will melt in the first tropical storm. Brickmaking, ONTOH, might be a skill worth reviving.

  26. MrColdWaterOfRealityMan July 29, 2013 at 11:31 am #

    James,

    Where people will go as things break down is more obvious than you might think. They’ll do as people have done for millennia. They will cluster around sources of water sufficient for drinking and agriculture. The luckier ones will manage to settle around rivers and lakes and so will get some fishing thrown in. Poor folk will make do with streams and shallow wells.

    Cheers!

  27. alpha mail July 29, 2013 at 11:31 am #

    Jim does love to rag on the South, but then again, the deserve it. I have to smile when I read the tag line on his latest book which says something like, “Git you one!” I think Jim’s laughing all the way to the bank.

    Southerners have this way of taking pride in some imagined heritage cloaked (or soaked?) in patriotism, religion, and fire arms, as in, “Ya’ll hafta pry this here shotgun outta my cold dead hans, mayan!” The South may well be cooked if the AC ever goes out, probably set to happen not due to Peak Oil, but rather the ability to pay cash for the ‘lectric bill. But folks survived down South before there was AC (pre 1950?). It was just friggin uncomfortable as all git out. Novel ways to address the heat in days of old included the use of high ceilings, large transoms over windows and doors, and the infamous “shot gun” house.

    As far as making fun of the prissy assed good ol boys prancing around in their shiney, chrome-ladden pick ups, I couldn’t agree more. What do these boys expect to haul in these things, a Costco run with the Missus? About the only industry they have left there is banking (think Charlotte) and …??? They managed to piss away their agriculture and all that’s left is tobacco. The textile business has long been shuttered due to free trade and the exporting of manufacturing jobs that go with it. But hey, they still got “Honey Boo Boo, right?

  28. Carol Newquist July 29, 2013 at 11:48 am #

    but the reality is they simple are not in the same league.

    It’s simply, not simple.

    Economics is fiction and Krugman writes some paralytically boring fiction as compared to JHK. I’m guessing someone like Krugman has difficulty not only reading and comprehending satire, but also doesn’t have the capacity to write good satire. There is no way in hell Krugman could use the word sorghum humorously…not even serendipitously, so anathema is humor to his person.

  29. D Benton Smith July 29, 2013 at 11:53 am #

    I don’t think I’m alone in craving a collapse which (since it can’t be averted) would just HAPPEN and be over & done with so that I could get on with whatever comes next (assuming I live through the collapse itself, of course).

    Alas, that (like so many other things I wish for in extended periods of weakness) is not to be.

    Collapse is not a singular event. It is a long drawn out and extremely complicated process. To mangle an old saying, “Rome did not fall in a day.”

    Look around. THAT is collapse . . . a deconstruction in progress. A seemingly neverending “series of unfortunate events” as Mr. Snicket so unctuously put it.

    Earthquakes tsunamis and volcanic explosions “happen” and are more or less done with. Societal collapses take a bit more time to play out. Think glaciers , not asteroid strike.

    I’m 66 years old. I first noticed that the so-called civilization around me was falling apart around the time that “they” shot Kennedy and several years later it was still totally confused and mysterious just who the hell “they” were ( or even IF “they” were.)

    It took another three or four decades to figure out that the reason collapse was behind schedule is that it wasn’t. It was right on time, but in that same sense had to seen like the arrival and departure of a VERY long train . First the engine arrives, then the tender, mail car and passenger coaches, all in their turn , and at speeds determined by numerous and largely unalterable factors like physics, financial practicality and rail road management.

    It departs the same way , slowly at first and then gathering speed as it develops a head of steam and gathers momentum

    Those lights you see dwindling away in the distance from where you now stand marooned in the increasingly derelict station is the back end of the caboose.

    Damn !. Looks like you missed the last call for “All Aboard !”

    But don’t worry. There’ll be another (much smaller) one coming along in a century or so .

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  30. Carol Newquist July 29, 2013 at 11:58 am #

    I have to smile when I read the tag line on his latest book which says something like, “Git you one!” I think Jim’s laughing all the way to the bank.

    I know I would be. That “Git you one!” explains “Howdy”.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcKdNV2ep7I

  31. Carol Newquist July 29, 2013 at 12:11 pm #

    Novel ways to address the heat in days of old included the use of high ceilings, large transoms over windows and doors, and the infamous “shot gun” house.

    Don’t forget slaves to do all the hard labor and wait on you hand and foot.

    “Here’s yur julep massa hawkins, all minty and frosty juz like you likes it.”

  32. janet July 29, 2013 at 12:13 pm #

    Life Support said: I’m afraid I can’t agree with your premise that real-world problems cannot be effectively addressed in works of fiction.

    Yes, novels can address real-world problems, or they can be fluff. Take this novel JHK wrote in 2004, post-9/11, when we were aware of real world problems:

    “James Howard Kunstler’s novel is a delightful blend of romance and mystery, part cozy and part commentary — like an offspring of a union between Agatha Christie and Alexander Woollcott. … Bouncing between her family, her lovers, and her employees, from an attorney to a gardener, she eventually sends out roots and shoots like one of the exotic plants over which she fusses. The demanding juggling act is launched when her millionaire investment banker husband Kenneth is nabbed dabbling in adultery, and their son is hooking up with his girl friends and hanging around with “gangsta” types. Maggie’s best friend is rebounding from her own breakup at Maggie’s house, entertaining bad habits ranging from liaisons and drug abuse to theft.
    Maggie herself gets involved with a younger rock musician/actor, who betrays her, too, then with an older editor, who also betrays her (in a particularly pathetic passive/aggressive lie), and then with a professional peer, who threatens to kill himself.
    Breathlessly, the plot shows blah blah blah...”

    (Maggie Darling: A Modern Romance, a novel by James Howard Kunstler, ISBN 0-87113-910-3, from a review by Bill Knight)

    Package your message in story form, and you may have a chance.

    The operative word being “may”

    Oh, and while JHK was publishing this fluff in 2004, here is a sample of titles published by Paul Krugman in 2004:

    The great unraveling : losing our way in the new century

    Microeconomics

    The Price of Loyalty: George W. Bush, the White House, and the Education of Paul O’Neill

    American Dynasty: Aristocracy, Fortune, and the Politics of Deceit in the House of Bush

    And just to give an example of international impact, Krugman’s work has had a broader and more lasting impact. His 2004 book, Microeconomics, is out in its 3rd edition, published this year, 2013.

    While telling a story can lead to social change, in the case of what these two authors were doing in 2004, and in terms of continuing impact, non-fiction wins out over the romance novel.

    • LifeSupport July 29, 2013 at 12:31 pm #

      About the only benefits I can see in the “Romance novel” is the carbon sequestration all those pages provide, and, in a pinch, as a source of fuel for cooking and heating. (My couch isn’t missing any legs, but I could probably come up with some other ideas as well if I put my mind to it.) But let’s not cherry pick, shall we? We both know what works of Kunstler fiction I had in mind. I read mostly non-fiction myself, and while I’d love to live in a world where book titles like “Differences in Income Elasticities and Trends in Real Exchange Rates” leapt off the shelves with the ink barely dry, I’m just not seeing that. It sounds as though you would be in a better position than I am to provide comparative data on numbers of copies sold. I don’t really have any idea. Not pressing you on that or anything, but it might help to bolster your position. Just a suggestion.

      • Carol Newquist July 29, 2013 at 12:34 pm #

        You have no idea who you’re dealing with here. janet will provide those numbers, I assure you.

        • LifeSupport July 29, 2013 at 12:49 pm #

          It was a completely sincere request, so I’ll look forward to that. As I said, I really don’t have any idea. I really would be interested to see what the numbers say about which author is more widely read. If I were confident that they revealed it to be JHK, I’d probably be working on compiling those numbers myself, but, being fully prepared to accept the opposite result, I’d rather let the first claimant do the heavy lifting. Call me lazy.

  33. Carol Newquist July 29, 2013 at 12:18 pm #

    American Dynasty: Aristocracy, Fortune, and the Politics of Deceit in the House of Bush

    An appropriate sequel to this thriller would be:

    American Dynasty II: Aristocracy, Fortune, and the Politics of Deceit in the House of Obama

  34. RB July 29, 2013 at 12:21 pm #

    With respect, though not much, if you want a friend or a lot of friends, forget dogs and buy a pickup. It is the most useful, functional vehicle available. I enjoy, perversely, watching people at Home Depot, Lowes or other big box stores trying to place that HD TV into their Prius or better, bags of manure from the garden center. Lovely. Do they think they can magically shrink the item to fit? And, with my heavy duty pickup and trailer, I can remove myself and DW to a friend’s farm 150 miles distance along with all of my good stuff. In doing so, I can nudge the Prius folks off the road. With my winch, I can pull a Prius out of the ditch. The pickup lets me see over cars so I can avoid problems. The 4 WD helps getting around obstacles and if I put on my chains, I can go in most any road condition. When the guvmint legalizes Mexicans, I can fit easily 8 of them in the back of my pickup whereby I employ them and pay them. Prius doesn’t work that good for such. And shazam! I can put a 55 gallon aux fuel tank in the bed for that additional distance I might want. And no, I don’t worry about the cost of fuel. Not a bother. Oh the joys of a pickup.

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    • Carol Newquist July 29, 2013 at 12:29 pm #

      Yeah, you tell em, fella!!

      This one’s my favorite:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWcNLz9r_QE

    • LifeSupport July 29, 2013 at 12:33 pm #

      Nice of you to winch that Prius out of the ditch. After, you know, nudging it off the road. What a guy!

    • Janos Skorenzy July 29, 2013 at 1:26 pm #

      Do you offer classes that teach dogs how to ride in the back?

  35. Gonga Din July 29, 2013 at 12:24 pm #

    It is my humble opinion that body piercing should not be deprecated as part of the patrimony.

  36. janet July 29, 2013 at 12:48 pm #

    Carol said: “Economics is fiction and Krugman writes some paralytically boring fiction…”

    In the case of Krugman what you say is not true. In addition to his prolific scholarly publications and textbooks like Microeconomics, Krugman has demonstrated a rare capacity, at least for academics, for “translating” economic theory into highly readable prose. Indeed, his considerable influence on recent economic-political discourse is a direct consequence of his ability to connect clearly with his educated, non-specialist yet concerned public. In his capacity as a public commentator, his galvanizing ideas have circulated widely in columns and articles for such varied lay publications as U.S. News & World Report, The New York Times and Fortune. Boring does not get published widely, nor read widely. Krugman is not boring.

  37. janet July 29, 2013 at 12:59 pm #

    RB said: And, with my heavy duty pickup and trailer, I can remove myself and DW to a friend’s farm 150 miles distance along with all of my good stuff. In doing so, I can nudge the Prius folks off the road.

    At 15 mpg your pickup will use 20 gallons of gasoline to go 150 miles there and 150 miles back. (you probably get less than 15 mpg pulling a trailer)

    The Prius folks will use 6 gallons of gasoline for the same distance.

    If money matters to you, at $4 a gallon, you spend $80 and the Prius folks spend $24.

  38. third_martini_banter July 29, 2013 at 1:02 pm #

    According to my quick research, the Ford F-110 is from the 60s:

    http://www.fordtruckfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15840

    Note the handle of one of the posters at the above site:

    “Arrogant A-hole At-Large”
    Join Date: 2008
    Location: outside your house
    Posts: 31,670
    I bow my head to Jesus, stand for my family, love only one woman, and am always proud of what I have. Standing by my gun and Bible since 1986.”

    This gentleman may fit the profile of those you regularly predict will rise up in misdirected rage.

    • LifeSupport July 29, 2013 at 1:13 pm #

      Misdirected? Most likely. But who can really predict such things? It would be deliciously ironic — and not entirely surprising — if the mob’s first response to a crippling spike in fuel costs was to loot and burn the gas stations.

  39. DennyO July 29, 2013 at 1:07 pm #

    The ridiculous concept, from a basic physics standpoint, of using a 1800 kilogram “package” to contain and move a 100 kg human body never seems to faze people.

    I wonder if some future civilization’s archeologists, digging through the remains of this one, will not be amazed at the sheer quantity of automobile content. Once they piece together the story, they will ponder the obvious question of how we could have been so dumb as to burn off the prodigious quantities of fuel get from point A to point B.

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  40. Q. Shtik July 29, 2013 at 1:09 pm #

    Smoky Joe and Scott Kaiser apparently don’t have access to Google. See link below. The F-110 indeed exists or did exist.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=ford+f-110&rlz=1T4TSNJ_enUS456US456&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=8Kz2UZAG1rPgA-KIgagH&ved=0CEYQsAQ

  41. budizwiser July 29, 2013 at 1:10 pm #

    Love the truck commercial……

    James Kunstler – when will you figure it out?

    Everything is OK – for at least 30% of the population.

    And that’s the 30% that “shows up.”

    I need instruction.

    We’ve seen the depths that Congress can sink. Sequestration?

    Come now – what the fans of Clusterfuck nation want is a “heads up.”

    Even now – we see so clearly. Have you not heard? It is illegal for Detroit city to declare bankruptcy. “Clearly” you need to contact Paul K. and ask him to explain.

    Signed,
    Just wanted to know when TSHTF

  42. janet July 29, 2013 at 1:25 pm #

    Life support said: We both know what works of Kunstler fiction I had in mind.

    Oh. You mean World Made by Hand, published in 2008, available in … wait for it … English.

    Let’s see what Krugman published in 2008:

    The return of depression economics and the crisis of 2008

    International economics : theory and policy

    The conscience of a liberal : reclaiming America from the right

    Oh, and did I mention that Krugman’s work is translated into Spanish, Chinese, German, French, Italian, Japanese, Turkish, Korean, and Polish.

    JHK’s World Made by Hand is available in … wait for it … English.

    Non-Fiction wins again.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 29, 2013 at 1:30 pm #

      Of course. The American Cancer has spread or been spread to the far corners of the Earth. Krugmanism is a small part of that. The guy isn’t that smart – his nerd persona fools people. He doesn’t understand (or want to understand) what money is and why it must be kept close to the physical world and real things.

    • Trean July 29, 2013 at 4:21 pm #

      Mein Kampf has been published in at least 12 languages. Ergo AH is a more popular author and more knowledgable than Krugman. Reductico ad absurdum.

      • Trean July 29, 2013 at 5:09 pm #

        Furthermore Eric von Daniken published almost double the number of popular books that Stephen Hawking has with sales of over 40 million in several languages and was stocked by libraries worldwides. By Janet’s definition E von D is therefore the more knowledgable and professiinal writer.
        We could even compare the publication figures of the Bible and the koran. The bible has both higher publication figures and been translated into more languages. Ergo the bible is the better book.
        The criteria used by Janet to measure two authors is as simplistic as the reasoning of a three year old.

  43. Q. Shtik July 29, 2013 at 1:45 pm #

    Boring does not get published widely, nor read widely.

    No, but stupidity does.

    I haven’t read any of the Krugman titles you listed but I have read all of his twice weekly columns in the NYT for years. I can’t think of another ultra liberal/socialist/communist more infuriating than Krugman unless it is yourself, Ja’soka.

    If I may paraphrase, Krugman’s main theme for the past couple of years is that:

    ‘Being in the middle of a great recession is no time for austerity, it is precisely the time when Govt should be spending like crazy. Oh sure, there is an appropriate time to cut back and pay down Govt debt but that time IS NOT NOW. Rather, the time to reduce Govt spending is when the economy is humming and we have reached full employment.’

    Well Ja’soka, I ask you this, has there been a time during Krugman’s professional career in which the economy was humming? Yes, during part of Raegan’s administration and most of Clinton’s.

    Your assignment for today is to find an article from those periods in which Krugman was exhorting Govt to CUT BACK!! That these are the good times during which we MUST CUT BACK on Govt expenditures and the creation of money.

    Please show me such words, use quotes and provide publication and date.

    I doubt you will find such words since the fact is, no Govt is EVER too big for Krugman.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 29, 2013 at 1:53 pm #

      Usury or Riba is a sin. Money must not be allowed to become a commodity. Is it Currency or a medium that allows for the transmission of value. Bring back Glass-Seagull. Do it for Johnathan Livingston.

  44. janet July 29, 2013 at 1:45 pm #

    Life Support: It sounds as though you would be in a better position than I am to provide comparative data on numbers of copies sold.

    Let’s use this as an opportunity for doing some critical thinking:

    As of 2008, Krugman had written 20 books and published over 200 scholarly articles in professional journals and edited volumes. He has also written more than 750 columns on economic and political issues for The New York Times, Fortune and Slate.

    Krugman was awarded the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences (informally the Nobel Prize in Economics), the sole recipient for 2008. This prize includes an award of about $1.4 million and was given to Krugman for his work associated with New Trade Theory and the New Economic Geography.

    Over the course of the first 14 years of his writing career (1979–1993), JHK (who regularly criticizes Krugman), wrote seven novels. Since the mid-1990s, he has written four non-fiction books about suburban development and diminishing global oil supplies.

    Use reasoning to determine which author has sold more books.

    I’ll give you some more data, just to help you.

    World Made By Hand was purchased by 876 libraries.

    Conscience of the Liberal was purchased by 1,468 libraries and is available in 17 different editions (including Korean and Chinese).

    Non-Fiction wins again.

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    • Janos Skorenzy July 29, 2013 at 1:48 pm #

      So in other words, popularity is your criterion for what is good and/or true? So why do we even need science anymore? Let’s determine scientific questions by popular vote.

      • LifeSupport July 29, 2013 at 2:21 pm #

        I don’t think that’s what Janet is saying. I asked for numbers, she delivered, and I appreciate that.

        I hope I’m not just quibbling here, but let me explain why I asked.

        There is a particular country (primarily English-speaking) in which denialism in various flavors is especially prolific. It happens to be the country that consumes by far the lion’s share of fossil fuels, is the most suburbanized, is highest in per capita ownership of fuel-inefficient vehicles, etc. Deeply entrenched mindsets in this particular country pose a significant obstacle to progress toward mitigating the impacts of climate change upon human society across the globe — as well as peak oil and other resource depletion issues. That’s the target audience I have in mind. In this context, “appeal to popularity” isn’t a logical fallacy; it’s the thing that will determine the course of human society. Scientific questions are being settled by popular vote. That’s a lot of the problem.

        As I indicated in my first post to this thread, I’m not entirely optimistic about the prospects for recalibrating this entrenched mindset through any “messaging” effort — and even if that miracle could somehow be accomplished, it would put us merely at the starting point for a Herculean (perhaps Quixotic) task. As I see it, we’re probably at least thirty years too late to even have a good shot at a soft landing. It’s entirely possible that nothing much will change until we hit bottom, hard.

        What I’m interested in (having not quite yet given up all hope, I suppose) is which author is more effective in reaching that target audience. I think Uncle Tom’s Cabin still stands as an example. Often criticized, perhaps fairly, as overly melodramatic and sentimental, but its power to bring about change cannot be denied, and that power rested on its appeal to a popular audience. I suppose a by-country breakdown would probably show Krugman still well in the lead. It may even be that he could be expected to be the more effective communicator, even to that target audience. I just don’t know.

        • Janos Skorenzy July 29, 2013 at 5:15 pm #

          Yes any message in which Whites are the bad guy may prove to be immensely effective. So package a message where Whites are destroying the Earth and making Blacks suffer. Whites eat this stuff up. It’s a masochism – the replacement for healthy Christianity.

  45. janet July 29, 2013 at 2:12 pm #

    Your assignment for today is to find an article from those periods in which Krugman was exhorting Govt to CUT BACK!! … Please show me such words, use quotes and provide publication and date.

    The infuriating thing about this tragedy is that it was completely unnecessary. Half a century ago, any economist-or for that matter any undergraduate who had read Paul Samuelson’s textbook “Economics”-could have told you that austerity in the face of depression was a very bad idea. But policy makers, pundits and, I’m sorry to say, many economists decided, largely for political reasons, to forget what they used to know. And millions of workers are paying the price for their willful amnesia. –Paul Krugman

    CITATION: Krugman, P. (2012, Jan 31). The austerity debacle. Financial Express.

  46. janet July 29, 2013 at 2:15 pm #

    Janos: “So in other words, popularity is your criterion for what is good and/or true? So why do we even need science anymore? Let’s determine scientific questions by popular vote.”

    Straw man. I never said what you asserted. I was asked for NUMBERS and I provided NUMBERS. Good or true never entered into the discussion. Neither did science.

  47. janet July 29, 2013 at 2:16 pm #

    Bring back Glass-Seagull.

    ————

    Become a Muslim. Be done with usury.

    • LifeSupport July 29, 2013 at 2:25 pm #

      Where do I sign?

  48. Q. Shtik July 29, 2013 at 2:17 pm #

    Southerners have this way of taking pride in some imagined heritage cloaked (or soaked?) in patriotism, religion, and fire arms… – Alpha Mail

    Yeah, some of my fondest memories of life in the military involve southerners. It all began in USAF ROTC. I did a month of training at Lockbourne AFB near Columbus, Ohio in the summer between my Junior and Senior year. Let’s see, that would have been 1961.

    A “good ‘ol boy” (age 20) from VMI was marching us from point A to point B. He explained the proper posture of the hands while marching…..”like you’re holding a blade of grass between your thumb and forefinger.” And he taught us some real neat marching chants like:

    “See that girl
    Dressed in pink?
    She’s the one that
    Makes my finger stink.”

  49. janet July 29, 2013 at 2:18 pm #

    [Krugman] doesn’t understand (or want to understand) what money is…

    —————-

    Janos, weren’t you banned? This comment is hilarious! I wonder if Krugman even knew what to do with the $1.4 Million dollars he got for the Nobel Prize. I wonder if he just stared at it and said, “what’s this?”

    LOL!

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  50. janet July 29, 2013 at 2:20 pm #

    lsjogren said: “it is a sign that we are in a “mini bubble” in which many people are experiencing a little resurgence of “the good life” after the shocks of the crash of 2008.”

    ——————

    Agreed. Things are good. People are breathing more easily and are buying stuff again. Whether or not it is a “mini-bubble” we’ll have to wait and see. But not too long, just around the corner, collapse hunger is increasing. (at least on CFN)

  51. RCM July 29, 2013 at 2:27 pm #

    Jim,

    Those of us who follow you here are well aware that this mess has been coming on for a very long time. What’s interesting is that as far back as the 1950s, Frank Lloyd Wright proposed a rather fascinating solution that might have changed the direction of things. Or maybe not. His proposal definitely did not follow his normal philosophy of “form follows function” to fit the terrain and environment.

    To get you off the tenterhooks on which I have inadvertently placed you, here’s a thumbnail description of his idea:

    FLW proposed a one mile (that’s right…5,280 feet) tall skyscraper that would taper to a point at the top. It would be securely anchored by a base/foundation that would descend one-third of a mile into the earth. Size of the building’s base at ground level? I can’t remember, but it would’ve had to be somewhere in the neighborhood of a half mile on a side.

    The purpose of the tower would have been to contain all of the inhabitants, equipment, businesses and activities (including industrial)….along with parks, recreational facilities, etc… for a fair size city. Say 100,000 to 200,000. Larger cities would be replaced by several such towers.

    The reclaimed land resulting from the demolition of the old style cities would then be used for agricultural production and expansive greenswards where residents of the tower(s) could stroll and enjoy themselves whenever they felt the need to go outside.

    Whether he actually had an idea that would’ve worked or had over indulged on some 190-proof liquid that he had just discovered and didn’t know the effect it would have on him, I can say. But…an illustration of the proposed tower appeared in a two page color spread in a NYC newspaper. The New York Times, I believe. If I can find that spread…which I still have somewhere…I could tell you for sure.

    RCM

    • RCM July 29, 2013 at 2:32 pm #

      Ooos! I just found an incomplete word. As a result, I’ve copied and pasted my original post into this one with the word corrected. My apologies for the error. I’m a freelance writer, so that kind of thing bothers me.

      Jim,

      Those of us who follow you here are well aware that this mess has been coming on for a very long time. What’s interesting is that as far back as the 1950s, Frank Lloyd Wright proposed a rather fascinating solution that might have changed the direction of things. Or maybe not. His proposal definitely did not follow his normal philosophy of “form follows function” to fit the terrain and environment.

      To get you off the tenterhooks on which I have inadvertently placed you, here’s a thumbnail description of his idea:

      FLW proposed a one mile (that’s right…5,280 feet) tall skyscraper that would taper to a point at the top. It would be securely anchored by a base/foundation that would descend one-third of a mile into the earth. Size of the building’s base at ground level? I can’t remember, but it would’ve had to be somewhere in the neighborhood of a half mile on a side.

      The purpose of the tower would have been to contain all of the inhabitants, equipment, businesses and activities (including industrial)….along with parks, recreational facilities, etc… for a fair size city. Say 100,000 to 200,000. Larger cities would be replaced by several such towers.

      The reclaimed land resulting from the demolition of the old style cities would then be used for agricultural production and expansive greenswards where residents of the tower(s) could stroll and enjoy themselves whenever they felt the need to go outside.

      Whether he actually had an idea that would’ve worked or had over indulged on some 190-proof liquid that he had just discovered and didn’t know the effect it would have on him, I can’t say. But…an illustration of the proposed tower appeared in a two page color spread in a NYC newspaper. The New York Times, I believe. If I can find that spread…which I still have somewhere…I could tell you for sure.

      RCM

      • Neon Vincent July 30, 2013 at 9:39 am #

        The concept you’re describing is an arcology.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcology

        In the Wikipedia article to which i link, Frank Lloyd Wright is mentioned, but not for the structure you described. Instead, it’s for something called “Broadacre City,” which is not at all like a standard arcology. Instead, it’s a planned, self-sufficient low-density city. It would have been dependent on the automobile, although the residents would have done a lot of gardening for their own food.

  52. Q. Shtik July 29, 2013 at 2:31 pm #

    CITATION: Krugman, P. (2012, Jan 31). The austerity debacle. Financial Express.

    Your grade is F. You have failed (deliberately) to understand the assignment….which I will reiterate:

    … find an article from those periods* in which Krugman was exhorting Govt to CUT BACK!!

    * written during periods when the economy was humming.

    • anti dod July 29, 2013 at 2:49 pm #

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNqIJ3e0OJw

      • Eleusis July 29, 2013 at 10:44 pm #

        This had 361,615 views, or about 361,000+ more than this article, which kind of confirms Kunstler’s point on the current hive mind. All 361,615 of those viewers knows what a bucket of KFC is and how to use an EBT card, but how many know that the FRB controls the price of that bucket?

        • anti dod July 30, 2013 at 10:47 am #

          FRB?

          ‘Afropuffs’ has been at Youtube for years. This blog does have
          1000s ? of viewers.

          Remember the LAWS are made in DC and seven of the ten wealthiest counties in USA are nearby. Those folks are hoping the gravy train goes on forever. They do not live in DC, however.
          It is too Black near the WH.

  53. janet July 29, 2013 at 2:41 pm #

    Nastarana said: The problem I have with your list, other than I have no idea who Donna Tartt might be, is that no other name on it has not been the beneficiary of NYT bestseller media hype.

    Nastarana, all the authors you mention have been reported on/reviewed by the New York Times many times. Here are examples:

    JORGE AMADO
    West, P. (1988, Feb 07). Ambushed in the cacao groves. New York Times Book Review

    CHINUA ACHEBE
    Gordimer, N. (1988, Feb 21). A tyranny of clowns. New York Times Book Review

    VIKRAM SETH
    Woodward, & , R. B. (1993, May 02). Vikram seth’s big book. New York Times.

    • Nastarana July 29, 2013 at 3:16 pm #

      Nice piece of disingenuous blather.

      I still remember the hype over Yevtushenko. He is not bad, I suppose. I prefer Mandelstam and BTW, the memoir by his wife is also a minor classic.

      I think none of the names I mentioned can reasonably function as any kind of cultural signifier. Sorry to disappoint.

      You clearly thought I was going to mention something like that piece of overhyped trash, The Red Tent, which I only finished because it was for a book club.

      How about you tell us which of Prof. Krugman’s oeuvre you have read, and which you would recommend for non-specialists?

      His field is international trade, and, I would guess, he just realized that there might not be much more of that if the price of energy keeps rising while its’ availability declines.

  54. janet July 29, 2013 at 2:44 pm #

    … find an article from those periods* in which Krugman was exhorting Govt to CUT BACK!!

    I completed the assignment.

    It’s like a doctor who says in print: “when you have a headache, take an aspirin”

    And you come back and say: Find a doctor who has said in print “Don’t take an aspirin if you don’t have a headache.”

    Use your common sense that God gave you, even if you no longer believe in God.

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  55. janet July 29, 2013 at 3:11 pm #

    Adobe will melt in the first tropical storm. Brickmaking, ONTOH, might be a skill worth reviving.

    Adobe bricks are of many kinds: traditional sun-dried, semi-stabilized, stabilized, terrones, quemados, and pressed-adobe bricks. Treated or stabilized bricks will not “melt” in tropical rain.

    Untreated bricks have to be covered with stucco/plaster to protect them from rains.

    People figured out how to protect adobe ten thousand years ago and adobe buildings are still standing that are five thousand years old. Are there any wooden buildings still around after five thousand years?

    • Nastarana July 29, 2013 at 3:18 pm #

      Do any of the still standing adobe buildings happen to be located in other than arid environments?

      • alpha mail July 29, 2013 at 4:09 pm #

        Nastarna, J’aska is an “expert” on everything, but most especially mud huts.

  56. Smoky Joe July 29, 2013 at 3:28 pm #

    I failed the pickup truck test. Indeed, there was an F-110. Never heard of it before today:

    There was an early 60s F-110. But JHK is still a city boy! And he drives a ding-dang Tacoma 😀

  57. Carol Newquist July 29, 2013 at 3:35 pm #

    JORGE AMADO
    West, P. (1988, Feb 07). Ambushed in the cacao groves. New York Times Book Review

    JHK’s most recent blog post here and this title have given me an idea for my next book. I’ll call it:

    Sodomized In The Sorghum Rows

  58. Carol Newquist July 29, 2013 at 3:41 pm #

    Boring does not get published widely, nor read widely.

    Shit Fire, of course it does. In fact, the majority of the bullshit published today that is widely distributed and read is boring, and Krugman’s material is no different. Unless, of course, you think O’Reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck et al are interesting and not boring. All of the aforementioned have written multiple books that are “published widely” and “read widely.”

  59. Carol Newquist July 29, 2013 at 3:43 pm #

    here was an early 60s F-110. But JHK is still a city boy! And he drives a ding-dang Tacoma 😀

    Not to mention, he no doubt knows how to wipe his ass properly, unlike the majority of pickem up truck drivers such as yourself.

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  60. Carol Newquist July 29, 2013 at 3:47 pm #

    I wonder if he just stared at it and said, “what’s this?”

    I’m guessing he smoked it all up by now. He looks like the type.

  61. janet July 29, 2013 at 3:51 pm #

    Adobe works fine with cold and moisture, but it’s high-mass properties mean it doesn’t make sense unless there is a large diurnal range of temperature. Just like the stick-frames of New England don’t make much sense in the desert Southwest.

  62. third_martini_banter July 29, 2013 at 4:07 pm #

    OK, it’s far enough into the day to let this comments section devolve into a contest to see who can find the best pickup-truck parody ad.

    I’m not saying this one’s the best, but here’s a start:

    http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/c55de7eca1/it-s-movin-season-ram-truck-parody

  63. BackRowHeckler July 29, 2013 at 4:29 pm #

    When’s this sucker going down (to quote George Bush) that’s what I want to know?

    Gas is $4 per gallon and people are still driving around like maniacs. On a pristine spot by the Farmington River, in Burlington, Developers have cut down all the trees and plowed up the ground to build a McMansion subdivision, price tag: $1 million and up. I was hoping the long emergency would put those sonsabitches out of business!

    –BRH

  64. janet July 29, 2013 at 5:33 pm #

    When’s this sucker going down…

    It is not going down… ever. It will continue for hundreds of thousands of years more, at least until the sun burns out.

    The reason is simple:

    this sucker depends upon energy, not finite fossil fuels.

    End of story.

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    • PeakEverything July 30, 2013 at 12:05 pm #

      “at least until the sun burns out”

      That is BILLIONS of years. Do you REALLY think human civilization is going to last that long? Talk about deluded…

  65. Carol Newquist July 29, 2013 at 6:38 pm #

    To Read Too Many Books is Harmful

    ~Mao Zedong

    • Nastarana July 29, 2013 at 11:40 pm #

      That, I believe, would be a quote from one Lord Shang, an ancient Chinese writer who makes Machiavelli look like a Sunday School teacher. The original went something like there is no one more useless than an impoverished bookworm.

      • Janos Skorenzy July 30, 2013 at 12:44 pm #

        Good quote. He’s right.

        • Nastarana July 30, 2013 at 9:17 pm #

          An authoritarian would naturally think so.

  66. alpha mail July 29, 2013 at 6:42 pm #

    Am I the last one to figure out that “janet” is actually Asoka in ….drag? Scary images of Asoka sitting at a dressing table applying lipstick, eye shadow, rouge, and high heels. I guess things must get pretty boring when you’re beating off to Osho in a mud hut. blech!

    • ozone July 29, 2013 at 9:22 pm #

      The misdirection, dogged contentiousness and puzzling irrelevancies should have been a giveaway, but we do like to think the best of people despite the evidence of our own eyes. (We might want to file that little peccadillo away for a decade or so if we intend to continue living.)
      Rouge is not necessary when clacking away at your assigned card-table, but it can prove briefly entertaining for your fellow slaves to the M.I.C.

  67. Carol Newquist July 29, 2013 at 6:44 pm #

    this sucker depends upon energy, not finite fossil fuels.

    It depends on the definition of “this sucker.” IF by “this sucker” you mean civilization, and more specifically industrial civilization, then “this sucker” requires more energy than the planet and sun can provide. I posted this link before, but I’ll post it again as support.

    http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/07/galactic-scale-energy/

    The purpose of this exploration is to point out the absurdity that results from the assumption that we can continue growing our use of energy—even if doing so more modestly than the last 350 years have seen. This analysis is an easy target for criticism, given the tunnel-vision of its premise. I would enjoy shredding it myself. Chiefly, continued energy growth will likely be unnecessary if the human population stabilizes. At least the 2.9% energy growth rate we have experienced should ease off as the world saturates with people. But let’s not overlook the key point: continued growth in energy use becomes physically impossible within conceivable timeframes. The foregoing analysis offers a cute way to demonstrate this point. I have found it to be a compelling argument that snaps people into appreciating the genuine limits to indefinite growth.

    Once we appreciate that physical growth must one day cease (or reverse), we can come to realize that all economic growth must similarly end. This last point may be hard to swallow, given our ability to innovate, improve efficiency, etc. But this topic will be put off for another post.

  68. janet July 29, 2013 at 8:02 pm #

    It depends on the definition of “this sucker.”

    Very good!

    Yes, that is the question.

    I was assuming “this sucker” to be the “planet earth” and it existed quite well for millions of years before human beings arrived on the scene, it existed quite well without combustion engines or refined gasoline because those things are not necessary to sustain life on earth, including human life at perhaps 500 million population. We are all going to die anyway eventually. Gaia just might shake off a few billion of the most harmful parasites a little early.

  69. janet July 29, 2013 at 8:06 pm #

    Am I the last one to figure out that “janet” is actually Asoka in ….drag?

    I went back and read some posts made by this Asoka everyone keeps referencing. He (or she) had some ideas I agree with and some I disagree with.

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  70. Oldmusher July 29, 2013 at 9:02 pm #

    James, your reference to “..subsistence is the real deal-to-come, and it will be literally a harder row to hoe than the current conception of “poverty,” is spot on. I spent a sizable fraction of my life living with and studying subsistence-based hunter-gathers. The skills critical to living a truly subsistence type of lifestyle, including basic agriculture, requires an amazing amount of information, training and fortitude. True subsistence living takes generations of trial and error to develop the database and skills to live off the land. Anyone who thinks they can simply pick up a gun and go off into the woods to shoot a deer or hoe away at hardscrabble land and have food suddenly appear are in for some tough lessons. The one basic truth about Nature is she doesn’t give a damn.

    • ozone July 29, 2013 at 9:33 pm #

      Yep. By necessity, I’ve adopted raised-bed gardening through hard experience and have barely scratched the surface of that practice in 5 years. Just basic gardening without commercial inputs is a demanding lesson in working with Nature… and, as you say, she doesn’t give a hoot or holler in hell about our success or failure.

      (That’s not even taking into account the changing weather patterns and infestations of ‘new’ insects and fungi, year over year.)

      • Nastarana July 29, 2013 at 11:44 pm #

        The permaculture folks have some good ideas. You can start by planting fruit and nut trees if you have space or hops and grapes and small fruit if you don’t.

  71. Tim July 29, 2013 at 9:39 pm #

    Jim- the turn-over of southern fried language in this week’s entry is well flipped. It reminds me of Reverend Billy C. Wirzt’s “Roberta, Roberta! (I love you but you just won’t left me breathe”).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBhYWa1KdRM

    I long for a life in a town with the feeling of the music in the podcasts.

    A lot of sorrow in the soul these days amid the act that everything’s fine.

  72. janet July 29, 2013 at 11:34 pm #

    Nature… and, as you say, she doesn’t give a hoot or holler in hell about our success or failure.

    Nature is keeping you alive this very minute because She cares. How does She care? She keeps your ass alive, Ozone, through negative feedback loops that are essential for homeostatic system maintenance.

    Several biologically driven negative feed back loops have been identified that keep the oceans at a constant salinity and keep nitrogen-phosphorus concentrations at the Redfield ratio of 6.7 — these are conditions which are ideal for life, including your life, ozone, although you are ungrateful.

    Photosynthetic organisms regulates atmospheric CO2 concentrations. That’s Nature working for you, ozone. Life seems to maintain atmospheric O2 concentrations just below the level where fires would disrupt land life. Various other biological mechanisms help to control atmospheric, soil, and ocean chemical composition and pH (according to Lovelock).

    Life is also important for maintaining nutrient cycling. It provides efficient recycling pathways for poorly supplied nutrients. Biota annually consume 200 times more carbon, 500 – 1300 times more nitrogen, and 200 times more phosphorus than is supplied by external fluxes. Without this biological amplification by Nature there would be less than one percent of the biomass that is present now (including your garden and your winter firewood). But all you can do is complain about insects and fungus, right ozone? After all, Nature doesn’t care at all, does She?

    • ozone July 30, 2013 at 8:06 am #

      “The misdirection, dogged contentiousness and puzzling irrelevancies should have been a giveaway,” -J as A

      Your screed has miniscule skewed references to what I wrote and the direction of intent is COMPLETELY misplaced! I don’t “complain” about Nature, I’m required to adapt to it if I desire to remain alive. And no, Nature is absolutely disinterested in whether mankind thrives or expires. (You don’t think so either, you just have to appear pious and ‘spiritually superior’. Your assumed persona has certain buttons that need constant pushing to give it a thin veneer of credibility.)

      BTW, do you seriously think I’m unaware of all these “workings of Nature” that you’ve slathered your gum’mint-sponsored attack with? Jesus wept.

      You have a very nasty, warped ‘job’ of driving people away from actual discussion. You are cordially invited to go fuck yourself. (That’s a standing invitation, BTW.)

    • Trean July 30, 2013 at 11:02 am #

      Which is why 99% of all species of life that have existed on this planet are extinct. Asokas nature, caring you into extermination lol!

  73. janet July 29, 2013 at 11:45 pm #

    Nature… and, as you say, she doesn’t give a hoot or holler in hell about our success or failure.

    Damn, ozone, that is one of the dumbest statements on CFN, even dumber than some of the stuff I read that Asoka posted.

    The moment Nature stops caring, the moment Nature stops maintaining homeostasis in the atmospheric O2 concentrations for us to breathe, we are dead: all 7+ Billion of us.

    Rich and poor, black and white, they are precious in Her sight.

    You are still here precisely because Nature does care.

    It’s not all about YOU, ozone, but Nature is sustaining you nonetheless, so you must be useful for something. I trust Her implicitly.

  74. liquid lennny July 30, 2013 at 12:19 am #

    Jim,

    As a former resident of the Detroit metro area I just have to comment on the city’s demise and its blueprint for the nation at large. Our family escaped the carnage which came to be known as the city of Detroit in the early 70’s and transported to another urban hellhole in the making, Phoenix, Arizona. In many respects it was a good move, in others maybe not so great. A vast suburbia in the making, cheap land, cheap labor, what’s not to like? Except the city has no character. The personification of a city of nowhere…but we do have a token light rail line, another urban boondoggle when you factor the cost per rider.

    I’d like to make a brief comment regarding urban planning if I may. Seems to me this love of the “New Urbanism” is a bit misguided and is the same old, same old only on a smaller scale.
    Frank Lloyd Wright was exploring a different concept with his “Broadacre City” which to some only became a guide for the suburbia of today with all its transportation evils. However, we must remember at the time the auto was a wonderful liberating machine and expressed in so many ways the promise of the future both in freedom of movement and as a social and personal art-form.

    Unfortunately, sometimes those things we love the most also tend to do us the most harm, take for example; double cheeseburgers, cheese puffs and ice cream.

    But back to “Broadacre City”, the concept of families living on a acre plot of land with the opportunity to live partially in a self-sufficient manner is not unlike the short lived Urban Homestead program proposed by the FDR administration in the 1930’s. If ever there was a pattern of sustainable living to be explored further these concepts have significant merit. Particularly if coupled with efficient use of an enhanced information network. It’s ludicrous to drive across town only to push virtual paper around, yet that is what many of us do on a daily basis.

    But back to Detroit, with its fertile soils (that is if it’s not a Superfund site) and temperate climate it would be short sighted to completely discount the Urban Farms proposition. There is dignity in working the land if you think human labor has intrinsic value in of itself. But regrettably we’ve all been sold another bill of goods and that bill is coming due soon enough.

    It’s my sense we’ll miss having the opportunity for a smooth transition to urban bliss, we still have too many other avenues (auto metaphor) of poor judgment to pursue at this time.
    Perhaps we’ll figure it out in the 22nd or 23rd century then, we can only hope can’t we?

    In the mean time let us all enjoy watching and participating in; the great circling of the drain…it going to be quite a ride…

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    • Neon Vincent July 30, 2013 at 9:49 am #

      “Detroit, with its fertile soils (that is if it’s not a Superfund site) and temperate climate it would be short sighted to completely discount the Urban Farms proposition.”

      That is part of the Detroit Future City project, which was funded by the Kresge Foundation to the tune of $150 million this year. The rest involves managing Detroit’s water resources to create a “blue-green infrastructure.”

      http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/2013/01/kresge-pledges-150-million-to-detroit.html

      • liquid lennny July 30, 2013 at 10:02 pm #

        Hey Neon,

        Thanks for the link, it’s been a while since I visited your blog site.

        Recently I took a tour of some of my old stomping grounds via Google Earth and street view. I saw my Grandparent’s house, the porch collapsed, the front door open and a general state of disrepair, it was quite a shock. But even more surprising was the fact that 90% of the adjacent homes were gone. Nothing but nature reclaiming its own…the Earth’s healing process.

        It’s nice to hear of the Kresge pledge but I’d be concerned that good intentions will be sabotaged by the presence of big money.

        Had a chance recently to read ‘Detroit – An American Autopsy’, what an aptly name book. Detroit is America’s future, maybe twenty years out (if we’re lucky). Most people won’t know what hit them, they ( we ) are so ill prepared for our future.

        Thanks again…LL

    • Janos Skorenzy July 30, 2013 at 12:48 pm #

      Yes robots are being developed to do agricultural work. So what will people do for work? Nobody seems to care. And if you disagree, you’re a “luddite”. Yes quite a ride – like Poe’s descent into the Maelstrom.

      • liquid lennny July 30, 2013 at 10:17 pm #

        It is my hope that we give the robots a break.

        People need to be in contact with the soil, to move their bodies, to rediscover the life cycle, themselves and their self-worth.

        As for work, there is plenty to go around, only it doesn’t have to be on the 9 to 5 hamster wheel. It needs to start on the community level.

        But then you’re right about one thing, I am a ‘Luddite’ and proud of it. I keep my flip phone though and I dig a fast processor….

        Personally I like Poe’s ‘Narrative of Arthur Pym’ and the journey to the South Pole, now that was a strange ride, full of adventure…

        g.t.gooooo

  75. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 6:43 am #

    The permaculture folks have some good ideas. You can start by planting fruit and nut trees if you have space or hops and grapes and small fruit if you don’t.

    Once upon a time, I considered permaculture a good thing. Not any longer. After reviewing the comments to this blog and several others to include Nature Bats Last, I’ve concluded permaculture is a movement of white racist misanthropes who not only want to be crucified, but also want to crucify. Sorry, but I’ll take my GMO fruits and veggies rather than support the likes of that.

    Oh, and this isn’t a ballgame, and nature doesn’t bat first or last; it doesn’t bat at all because there is no freaking game. Humans are nature. There is no distinction. If you don’t like human, then you don’t like nature because human is nature. If nature’s so great, how do you explain its creating its executioner, human? Perhaps it would be wise to quit thinking of nature as some sort of entity separate and distinct from human, because it’s not. But, humans, or at least some humans, like to try to quantify, qualify, characterize and contain EVERYTHING in human description, hence cartoons where every other thing that exists in the universe is characterized with human attributes….to include human’s vaunted deities.

    Anthropomorphism is a vain and onerous device revealing a severely disabled and self-centered incapacity to see everything as a reflection of itself. It’s the pinnacle of narcissism.

    But, by all means, let the permaculturists continue their little Passion Play. Mel Gibson will be proud.

    • Nastarana July 30, 2013 at 8:48 am #

      For crying out loud, do you have any sense at all? Nevermind, I guess I already know you don’t.

      I never said I was a whole hearted permie, I said they had some good ideas. Even you have those once in a while.

      So let me guess, where are you going with this? It is perfectly OK for interesting ethnics to plant their own culturally appropriate community gardens, but the rest of us mustn’t presume, because our shrinking resources are needed to prop up the lifestyles of parasites like you? Before you start squawking, I know you never said any of that, or at least not in so many words, but it for sure seems to be implied in a good deal of what does come out of your miserable keyboard.

      As for GMOs, why am I not surprised that you cannot recognize Evil when it not only stares you in the face, but poisons the land, water and air for all of us?

      • Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 10:07 am #

        Why do you predominantly assume my comments are directed at you, personally? It wasn’t directed at you, so if the shoe doesn’t fit, don’t wear it or try to defend not wearing it. There is a substantial presence here for whom that shoe does fit, and the comment is directed at that presence. Yes, I quoted something you wrote, but only as a segue to a broader audience and point.

        • Nastarana July 30, 2013 at 9:22 pm #

          If you quote me, I suppose you are talking to, or responding to, me.

          As for the other remark you asked about, it speaks for itself.

      • Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 10:14 am #

        It is perfectly OK for interesting ethnics to plant their own culturally appropriate community gardens, but the rest of us mustn’t presume, because our shrinking resources are needed to prop up the lifestyles of parasites like you?

        I’ve read this five times over now and still can’t make sense of it. I suppose it makes sense to you, and if you don’t mind talking to yourself that’s perfectly fine, but when you’re talking to someone other than yourself, or should I say corresponding with someone else, it’s important to clarify and elaborate. So, please explain…..especially the parasite part and “interesting ethnics.”

  76. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 6:45 am #

    That, I believe, would be a quote from one Lord Shang, an ancient Chinese writer who makes Machiavelli look like a Sunday School teacher. The original went something like there is no one more useless than an impoverished bookworm.

    I wonder what the good Lord would have thought and said about blogging?

    • Nastarana July 30, 2013 at 8:35 am #

      I think he was in many ways the original totalitarian. He also excoriated the people who went into the wilderness to practice yogic disciplines, which I believe were just then being introduced into China, for having no proper respect for authority.

  77. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 8:03 am #

    The Obama admin and the Dems have weighed in. There will be no bail-out of Detroit. This is an indicator of just how far right the country has moved since the times of Gerry Ford. Even Ford relented to a bail-out of New York City, and he was a Republican. Obama, allegedly a Democrat, won’t even consider a bail-out of Detroit.

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/07/28/no-bailout-coming-for-detroit-treasury-secretary-says/

    U.S. Treasury Secretary Jack Lew had that message for them Sunday, telling CNN’s “State of the Union” that Detroit’s debt problems were between the city and its creditors.

    “Detroit’s got serious financial problems,” Lew told chief political correspondent Candy Crowley. “They’ve been a long time in the making. We stand with Detroit and have been working with them, the technical advice, working with the kinds of normal programs the federal government has to see if there’s anything we can do to help in the Treasury Department.”

    And while those “normal programs” may include resources for helping remove blighted buildings and aid to specific communities, it doesn’t mean help paying down the $18 billion Detroit owes in debt.

    He makes it crystal clear in no uncertain terms; Obama is no Gerry Ford….he will not capitulate. Lew, like all the others inside the Beltway, are such lying, manipulative cocksuckers. Here’s one of the reasons he justifies bailing out the auto industry, but not Detroit.

    But it could rub some Detroit residents the wrong way. While city workers are likely to see their pensions slashed, auto industry workers there are still receiving full benefits, thanks to the 2008 bailout of General Motors and Chrysler.

    The $80 billion in assistance to those firms came in early 2009 after executives begged for federal help, and since the funds came from the Troubled Asset Relief Program, the package didn’t require congressional approval.

    A federal bailout of Detroit would require lawmakers to sign on – a feat unlikely in a body mired in debate other financial issues.

    On Sunday, Lew also argued a municipal bailout wouldn’t have as widespread an effect on the country as the auto industry assistance did.

    In the middle of the economic crisis, we were saving the American economy,” he said. “We were in free-fall. If we hadn’t taken decisive action, we would have had a massively worse problem than what we even had. So I think the situation in 2009 to 2010 was unique. And it’s something that hopefully we never see again.”

    What a deceiver. Bullshit, Lew! A more valid argument can be made that not bailing out Detroit will have a greater impact than not bailing out the “American” auto industry. By allowing Detroit to default on its debt, investors everywhere will be reluctant to invest in municipal bonds, and if municipalities can’t secure debt, they won’t be able to pay their bills to include retirement benefits for their city employees, and if they can’t do that, they won’t have employees, and if they don’t have employees, they can’t provide services, and if they can’t provide services, businesses will leave and new businesses will not locate there. It will quickly catapult into a crisis of confidence having a much greater ripple effect than not bailing out the “American” auto industry would have had.

  78. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 8:20 am #

    Some further research reveals that a back door bail-out is in effect. The bankruptcy plan for Detroit includes turning the healthcare of retired Detroit employees over to Obamacare, and allegedly, the Obama admin knew this when the Act was formulated. This is sneaky and duplicitous. It’s one thing to publicly announce a Federal bail-out, but to pull these kind of stunts out of the public eye is conspiratorial to say the least.

    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/kateandrews/2013/07/29/revealing-obama-administration-is-bailing-out-detroitthrough-obamacare-n1651697

    Revealing: Obama Administration Is Bailing Out Detroit–Through Obamacare

    A key component to Detroit’s bankruptcy plan reveals The Affordable Health Care Act as a ploy to bail out deeply blue cities and their corrupt public employee unions.

    As Detroit enters the federal bankruptcy process, the city is proposing a controversial plan for paring some of the $5.7 billion it owes in retiree health costs: pushing many of those too young to qualify for Medicare out of city-run coverage and into the new insurance markets that will soon be operating under the Obama health care law.

    Unfunded retiree health care costs loom larger than ever for localities across the country, and the health law’s guarantee of federal subsidies to help people with modest incomes afford coverage has made the new insurance markets tantalizing for local governments.

    And legally, it can; Obamacare has been designed to allow blue cities like Detroit to over-spend on behalf of the public sector and then divert the cost to the American taxpayer, who has no vote or control over the city’s financial decisions.

    Detroit is not the only city to propose such a controversial plan. Other blue cities, like Chicago, have proposed similar plans to divert city-run health care coverage over to Obamacare; and more cities are likely to follow. A recent Pew Charitable Trust study discovered that 61 of the country’s leading cities have made a combined promise of $126.2 billion worth of retiree health coverage to their public sector workers, yet only 6% of this cost is funded.

    While both Republicans and Democrats have been lamenting the huge financial strains of Obamacare and escalating costs of insurance premiums, this shift from city-run health care coverage over to Obamacare would drive the cost of Obamacare up even more, all for the benefit of public employee retirement funds.

    Today, it’s claiming that Obamacare will lower the cost of healthcare and provide full-coverage for all Americans; in reality, it is a tool to fund manipulated, public employee health care plans at the expense of taxpayers, who will not only pay for the public employees, but for their own, escalated insurance premiums as well.

    Wow, this is dirty, dirty business……as dirty as it gets. I’m betting this couple hundred billion wasn’t included in the projections proffered by the Dems for Obamacare. The Dems are as dirty and crooked as the Repubs, and this proves it once and for all. Pelosi said we’d know what what was in the plan once it was passed. Well, we’re finding out, slowly but surely, aren’t we? Like I said, we’ll see…..and we’re seeing, alright.

  79. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 10:18 am #

    You have a very nasty, warped ‘job’ of driving people away from actual discussion. You are cordially invited to go fuck yourself. (That’s a standing invitation, BTW.)

    Nastarana, cover your ears…errr eyes. I know you’re sensitive to such filthy language, or is it alright when your pal ozone uses it?

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    • Nastarana July 30, 2013 at 9:28 pm #

      Carol, listen, or read, carefully because I ain’t agonna repeat myself.

      I. Don’t. Work. For. You.

      Please repeat or at least refer to one post in which I objected to someone else’s choice of language.

      I am not going to complain about someone else’s choice of language, not even yours, which is worse than vulgar, it simply does not make sense, because I might like to use the same myself.

  80. janet July 30, 2013 at 11:17 am #

    Carol, you post a lot of loaded words to describe Obama’s efforts to provide health care, like ploy, allegedly, sneaky, duplicitous, stunts, conspiratorial.

    The truth is ACA was debated by the American people, debated by Congress, passed by a bipartisan vote in Congress, signed by the President, and upheld as constitutional by the Supreme Court. It was not a “ploy” nor “sneaky” nor “duplicitous” etc.

    Michigan (unlike Texas and most of the South) sends more taxpayer dollars to Washington, D.C. than it receives back. Now it will be getting back some of those tax dollars.

    Public funds for public health. What a concept!

  81. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 11:33 am #

    Carol, you post a lot of loaded words to describe Obama’s efforts to provide health care, like ploy, allegedly, sneaky, duplicitous, stunts, conspiratorial.

    They’re not loaded words, they’re factual descriptions. Obama would not let Single Payer advocates at the table for this process. He excluded them, purposely. He had a Democrat-controlled Executive and Congress, and yet he failed to pass Single Payer legislation, let alone consider it. This is not universal healthcare, rather, it’s legislation making it mandatory to turn over a significant portion of your income to the insurance companies so they can record double-digit profits for another decade or more.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/03/12/707486/-Baucus-Obama-160-Single-Payer-is-Off-the-Table

    Senator Max Baucus has told the Helena Independent Record that a single payer health care system is “off the table.” President Obama has said pretty much the same. At a recent Washington conference on health care reform, only a few health care reformers were invited (and only after a major protest was threatened). They were not considered seriously despite the fact that a majority of Americans favor a single payer system (which would cut out the insurance industry). Indeed, the mainstream media has minimized the importance and support for single payer. Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting found the views of advocates of single payer have only been aired five times in the hundreds of major newspaper, broadcasts about healthcare reform over the past week. No single-payer advocate has appeared on a major TV or cable network to talk about the policy during that period.

    STATE SEN. BARACK OBAMA: I happen to be a proponent of single-payer universal healthcare coverage. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent—14 percent—of its gross national product on healthcare, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim’s talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out: a single-payer healthcare plan, universal healthcare plan.

    Obama got it wrong. He’s against single payer not because “a lot of people work for insurance companies and…for HMO’s” but because insurance companies and HMO’s gave lots of bucks to him and his campaign and the last thing in the world they want to see is a single payer system (because it cuts them out). “Health professionals” gave the Obama campaign almost $11.5 million and insurance more than $2 million. http://www.opensecrets.org/
    That’s not all. Lobbyist “bundlers” who gave to Obama included:
    Alan D. Solomont of Solomont Bailis Ventures in Massachusetts represents Health Services/HMOs. As an Obama bundler, Solomont raised $200,000+. FEC records show that Solomont personally contributed $2,100 on January 26, 2007;[34] $2,500 on March 30, 2007;[35] (Rebecca Solomont at the same address made two $2,300 contributions on the same day); and $2,300 on March 30, 2007. Many other lobbyist bundlers, of course, also gave to Obama but they represent unclear clients. Source: http://www.sourcewatch.org/

    Moreover, listed among the top 50 contributors to Barack Obama 2003-2004 as a Senator are found the following political action committees: Allstate Insurance PAC; AIA Ill Pac (American Insurance Association). Among his top 50 contributors in 2001-2002 were the Illinois Health Care Association PAC. Source: http://www.sourcewatch.org/… While serving in Illinois, reports http://www.boston.com, “Obama was willing to accept campaign contributions from lobbyists. Obama’s state Senate campaign committee accepted contributions from insurance companies and their lobbyists – including $1,000 from the Professional Independent Insurance Agents PAC in June 2003, and $1,000 from the Illinois Insurance PAC in December 2003 – while the Health Care Justice Act was wending its way through the Illinois General Assembly. Obama also collected money from the insurance industry and its lobbyists for his successful US Senate campaign in 2004.”

    janet, you don’t have a leg to stand on here, and you know it. Concede.

  82. janet July 30, 2013 at 11:46 am #

    it is a tool to fund manipulated, public employee health care plans at the expense of taxpayers, who will not only pay for the public employees, but for their own, escalated insurance premiums as well.

    ACA is a tool to provide health care. Check.

    At the expense of taxpayers. Yes, everyone will pay premiums. Check.

    Escalated insurance premiums. No. This is a lie.

    The health exchange makes plans transparent, make cost comparison easy, and LOWERS insurance premiums. Look at California, Maryland, and New York, the states which have announced health exchange plans. In all three states the rates are LOWER than the private health insurance company gouging we have now.

  83. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 12:15 pm #

    Carol, you post a lot of loaded words to describe Obama’s efforts to provide health care, like ploy, allegedly, sneaky, duplicitous, stunts, conspiratorial.

    They’re not loaded words, they’re factual descriptions. Obama would not let Single Payer advocates at the table for this process. He excluded them, purposely. He had a Democrat-controlled Executive and Congress, and yet he failed to pass Single Payer legislation, let alone consider it. This is not universal healthcare, rather, it’s legislation making it mandatory to turn over a significant portion of your income to the insurance companies so they can record double-digit profits for another decade or more.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/03/12/707486/-Baucus-Obama-160-Single-Payer-is-Off-the-Table

    Senator Max Baucus has told the Helena Independent Record that a single payer health care system is “off the table.” President Obama has said pretty much the same. At a recent Washington conference on health care reform, only a few health care reformers were invited (and only after a major protest was threatened). They were not considered seriously despite the fact that a majority of Americans favor a single payer system (which would cut out the insurance industry). Indeed, the mainstream media has minimized the importance and support for single payer. Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting found the views of advocates of single payer have only been aired five times in the hundreds of major newspaper, broadcasts about healthcare reform over the past week. No single-payer advocate has appeared on a major TV or cable network to talk about the policy during that period.

    STATE SEN. BARACK OBAMA: I happen to be a proponent of single-payer universal healthcare coverage. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent—14 percent—of its gross national product on healthcare, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim’s talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out: a single-payer healthcare plan, universal healthcare plan.

    Obama got it wrong. He’s against single payer not because “a lot of people work for insurance companies and…for HMO’s” but because insurance companies and HMO’s gave lots of bucks to him and his campaign and the last thing in the world they want to see is a single payer system (because it cuts them out). “Health professionals” gave the Obama campaign almost $11.5 million and insurance more than $2 million. http://www.opensecrets.org/…
    That’s not all. Lobbyist “bundlers” who gave to Obama included:
    Alan D. Solomont of Solomont Bailis Ventures in Massachusetts represents Health Services/HMOs. As an Obama bundler, Solomont raised $200,000+. FEC records show that Solomont personally contributed $2,100 on January 26, 2007;[34] $2,500 on March 30, 2007;[35] (Rebecca Solomont at the same address made two $2,300 contributions on the same day); and $2,300 on March 30, 2007. Many other lobbyist bundlers, of course, also gave to Obama but they represent unclear clients.
    Moreover, listed among the top 50 contributors to Barack Obama 2003-2004 as a Senator are found the following political action committees: Allstate Insurance PAC; AIA Ill Pac (American Insurance Association). Among his top 50 contributors in 2001-2002 were the Illinois Health Care Association PAC. While serving in Illinois, “Obama was willing to accept campaign contributions from lobbyists. Obama’s state Senate campaign committee accepted contributions from insurance companies and their lobbyists – including $1,000 from the Professional Independent Insurance Agents PAC in June 2003, and $1,000 from the Illinois Insurance PAC in December 2003 – while the Health Care Justice Act was wending its way through the Illinois General Assembly. Obama also collected money from the insurance industry and its lobbyists for his successful US Senate campaign in 2004.”

    janet, you don’t have a leg to stand on here, and you know it. Concede.

  84. PeakEverything July 30, 2013 at 12:23 pm #

    This supposed return to preindustrial times is not going to happen overnight. If anything, various countries and regions will go forward or backward depending on their characteristics, such as government policies, access to energy, etc. This fits with the overall historical record. Consider the “collapse” of Rome. It actually lived on in various forms all the way into the 20th century in the form of the Ottoman Empire, preceeded by the Byzantine Empire. It seems unlikely to me that all our technical knowledge will simply be discarded. The real world is not like a sci fi movie, and I don’t see Mad Max as our future.

    On the other hand, technological progress has always proceeded at different rates depending on various factors, and it can be strangely incongruous. Africans may have access to fast cell phone networks, but many don’t have access to a sanitary water supply. Rather than the types of stark outcomes given by Kunstler, I see rather more of this kind of strange juxtaposition of the old and the new, with some problems easily solved (e.g. communication via cell phones) and others remaining quandaries for the forseeable future, such as the energy supply and the concommitant effect on the environment of injecting so much CO2 into it.

    There are some great points brought up in the article, and employment continues to be a major one. The economy certainly has jobs for those with advanced technical skills. But low-skill manual labor is continually being eroded by automated technology, and there is no term in this equation that requires the number of newly created jobs to equal or surpass those that are removed due to this automation.

    The effect of burning fossil fuels is likely to be a more urgent and pronounced problem that finding enough of them, at least for some portion of the affluent population. There actually are vast untapped carbon resources available, and the technology for extracting them is ever progressing. But these resources could be thought of as nature’s carbon sequestration program, and we are quickly reversing it.

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    • Janos Skorenzy July 30, 2013 at 12:52 pm #

      What about Tesla Technologies? Is there not no hope there?

  85. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 12:30 pm #

    The very people Obamacare purports to be helping are confused and distrusting of this legislation, and many aren’t sure they’ll sign up for insurance using the exchanges by the Jan. 1st deadline. Why would that be, janet?

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/100783056

    There’s no assurance folks will be buying insurance under Obamacare, and that could spell trouble for the Affordable Care Act.

    Nearly two-thirds of Americans who currently lack health insurance don’t know yet if they will purchase that coverage by the Jan. 1 deadline set by the ACA, a new survey revealed Monday.

    And less than half of those in the survey released by InsuranceQuotes.com think they’ll get better health care after Obamacare takes full effect. Nearly 50 percent believe the ACA will make it more difficult for them to get tests and procedures done in a timely manner, according to the phone survey of 1,001 adult Americans conducted in early May.

    And a whopping 68 percent of low-income Americans aren’t sure they qualify for tax credits that would subsidize their purchase of health insurance—despite they fact that they almost invariably will qualify, the survey found. That population is most likely to benefit from government subsidies under the health-care reform law.

    Laura Adams, senior insurance analyst at InsuranceQuotes.com, said public uncertainty about Obamacare—particularly a lack of commitment to signing up—could end up driving up health-insurance costs under the program because not enough healthy people will participate to offset benefits payouts.

    Of course, we know if they don’t pay their dues to the insurance companies, they will be penalized by the IRS, and we all know what happens when you get in hot water with the IRS; your life is effectively ruined. These Little People, already stretched to the limit and living life on the margins, will now be labeled criminals by the IRS and will be shoved into poverty as a result. So much for building the middle class. Single Payer would have precluded this predictable scenario, but then, the insurance companies wouldn’t have gotten their captivated “customer” base.

    • PeakEverything July 30, 2013 at 12:39 pm #

      Public-private hybrid systems can work in certain circumstances, but it is a disaster with health insurance. The worst characteristics of each seem to be combined into a horrible mess. There is the byzantine over-regulation of government coupled with the inherent profit motive and immorality of private enterprise.

      Already the government fills in the gaps (more like gaping chasms) of the private insurance industry, by providing Medicare, Medicaid, and VA services. Only in a narrow sense does private insurance even work at all.

      I agree that single payer is a superior system, but is quite clear that the capture of the government by lobbyists of the health insurance business made it a political impossibility.

    • janet July 30, 2013 at 12:46 pm #

      “don’t know”

      “believe”

      “aren’t sure”

      The same thing probably happened at the beginning of Social Security or any new program. People eventually get on board.

      I bet members of this very CFN paid FICA (a mandatory, compulsory, federal insurance tax) and now receive Social Security checks.

      Don’t worry be happy.

  86. PeakEverything July 30, 2013 at 12:34 pm #

    When speaking of humanity’s prospects, there need to be a number of distinctions established for the conversation to make any sense.

    1) What is the timescale under consideration? Is it 10 years? 50 years? 200 years? There are vastly different problems depending on this. Fossil fuel supply will likely not be a crisis issue in the next 10 years, but it likely will be in 50 years+. etc.

    2) Which regions and countries of the world are being discussed? The prospects for Canada look quite a lot different than Bangladesh.

    3) What assumptions are being made about population growth and contraction?

    4) What models of climate change are being used?

    etc.

    Once these kinds of basic assumptions are established, then it makes sense to discuss the overall trajectory. Without this information, any predictions about collapse and the like look more like an expression of general angst rather than anything based on real data.

  87. janet July 30, 2013 at 12:41 pm #

    PeakEverything said: “Consider the “collapse” of Rome.”

    Rome collapsed? Quick, somebody tell all those agencies signing people up for tours of Rome.

    Things get worse, then they get better, then they get worse, then they get better. What you are calling collapse is nothing to fear.

    30-yr. fixed mortgage rates

    1972 … 7.38%

    1982 … 16.04%

    1992 … 8.39%

    2002 … 6.54%

    2012 … 3.66%

    up, up, up and down, down, down, up and down, up and down

    Rome collapsed? What else is new?

    • PeakEverything July 30, 2013 at 12:49 pm #

      Uh, who cares about fixed mortgage rates? Those are manipulated artifically by the Fed. They mean essentially nothing in this discussion.

      I actually agree with you that “collapse” is usually a misnomer. It might be more accurate to speak of death and birth, or simply change. One civilization dies, and another is born. But if the change looks a lot like going backward to those affected, then they might call it a collapse. It all depends on perspective.

      The conquent of the Mayan civilization by the Spanish was an apocalypse for those affected. Disease and war wiped out millions. For the Spanish, it was a bonanza as they seized gold and other resources. Yet the descendants of the Mayans live on today in some form. True destruction is quite rare, but extreme change is still disruptive. And it can leave things looking almost nothing like they were.

      That said, most of your posts are pretty disingenuous. Simply because your life seems okay, it is fatuous to assume that humanity’s future is rosy going into the distant future. Any realistic look at our prospects would acknowledge the quandaries and contradictions that will likely lead to disruption and chaos.

      • Janos Skorenzy July 30, 2013 at 12:57 pm #

        The Maya had already largely collapsed before the Spanish arrived. Many of the City States were already abandoned. The Maya practiced the Human Sacrifice religion too just like the Aztecs. They didn’t kill as many people but they tortured their victims more.

  88. janet July 30, 2013 at 12:51 pm #

    “Public-private hybrid systems can work in certain circumstances, but it is a disaster with health insurance. ”

    Not so. Romney successfully implemented it in Massachusetts. It is still working there. It took a few years to get people on board, and it is still being modified, but RomneyCare works.

    “The law mandates that nearly every resident of Massachusetts obtain a state-government-regulated minimum level of healthcare insurance coverage and provides free health care insurance for residents earning less than 150% of the federal poverty level (FPL). The bill aimed to cover 95% of the state’s 500,000 uninsured within a three-year period. The law was amended significantly in 2008 and twice in 2010 and major revisions related to health care industry price controls were introduced in the Massachusetts legislature in May 2012 that passed in August 2012.”

    Things evolve. Things get better. Humans are rational beings capable of being flexible and making changes to improve legislation.

    Relax.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 30, 2013 at 12:54 pm #

      Yes, relax and try to enjoy it. If not, just stare at the ceiling and think of England.

      • Janos Skorenzy July 30, 2013 at 1:17 pm #

        Meaning you don’t know your Benny Hill and Monty Python. Shame!

    • PeakEverything July 30, 2013 at 1:00 pm #

      Why do you spend so much time and energy trying to convince others than everything is “okay” and will be for the forseeable future? If you truly believed this, then you wouldn’t spend so much time astroturfing here with your moronic cargo cultism and inane status quo worship. This is just more of the same consensus trance discussed often by Kunstler: “I’m okay. You’re okay.” You’re trying to convince yourself, essentially. The rest of us are just the unfortunate sounding board.

      There is essentially no evidence at all that America will be financially healthy going into the future, say the next 10 years. In fact, the opposite is true. You could read the current issue of the Economist for a reality check on this topic. Or not. It isn’t much skin off my back, but I think everyone here is getting sick of reading your foolishness.

    • PeakEverything July 30, 2013 at 1:01 pm #

      “If not, just stare at the ceiling and think of England.”

      Meaning what?

      • Janos Skorenzy July 30, 2013 at 1:18 pm #

        See my above response which should be here instead of this.

  89. janet July 30, 2013 at 1:00 pm #

    PeakEverything said: “Any realistic look at our prospects…”

    Any realistic look at our prospects will lead directly to death. That is what everybody seems to be afraid of. Apocalypse, collapse, destruction, extreme change, destruction, etc. are all ways of expressing fear of death.

    That said, most of your posts are pretty disingenuous. You can afford a computer, an ISP account, and have free time to post reflections on historical events. You are in no danger of any of the things you worry about. Why do you continue to post?

    Mortgage rates are concrete and determine what people do with a large percentage of their income. It was an easy way to illustrate that things change both directions. Yet no one on CFN acknowledges the possibility that things will get better. It is inevitable. Up and down. Better and worse. The pendulum swings. Yet CFN will only address the downside and never the upside. Like you, talking about “collapse” and “destruction” and “apocalypse” even though you are comfortable. It is disingenuous.

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    • PeakEverything July 30, 2013 at 1:10 pm #

      I post here occassionally and intermittently. I say what I have to say in a few posts a week, at most, and I move on.

      You are here week after week, trying to convince others that since things appear to be fine now, they will be until the sun burns out. Humanity will continue to progress and improve, forever and ever, until (I guess?) it reaches the technological singularity or some such.

      It is such an unbelieveably stupid way to look at the world that I wonder if you even believe it yourself.

      Mortgage rates have essentially NOTHING to do with this discussion. They are an artifically and dictatorially manipulated financial statistic which has no bearing on this.

      Here is the definition of disingenuous:

      “Not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.”

      Your endless posts disregarding all negative evidence to the contrary is pretty much the textbook definition of this. I’m trying to consider all the facts as currently laid out. That is the opposite.

      “You are in no danger of any of the things you worry about.”

      Are you omnipotent now? Can you predict the future to know that I’m in “no danger”? What an absurd and absolutist statement. Everyone is affected by everything that happens on the planet. It is just a matter of degree.

  90. janet July 30, 2013 at 1:05 pm #

    PeakEverything said: “There is essentially no evidence at all that America will be financially healthy going into the future…”

    And you have a crystal ball that predicts the future? You know things will get worse… and you know things will not get better? You KNOW THIS? Be honest. You are just blowing smoke. All hat no cattle. Enjoying the gloom and doom porn that is CFN with no idea whether things will get worse or better. You probably are incapable of looking back 100 years, comparing then with now, and admitting things have gotten better. You are probably CFN-wired only to see darkness and catastrophe even though the reality is no one can predict the future. You are being dishonest in not saying things COULD get better.

    • PeakEverything July 30, 2013 at 1:19 pm #

      Alright, well I only have so much time to respond to your endless straw men arguments and ad hominems. This will be my last post today.

      “And you have a crystal ball that predicts the future?”

      No, I do not, and I don’t make the presumption. You are the one barfing out post after post claiming that everything is just fine and will be forever. You’re doing exactly what you falsely accuse me of.

      “You know things will get worse… and you know things will not get better?”

      My point was that better and worse often depends on where you’re standing. Something that is good for one set of people can depend on a negative outcome in another. Anyways, “better” and “worse” are overly simplistic ways of looking at all this.

      “You KNOW THIS? Be honest.”

      Of course I can’t predict the future. My point was that there are a set of facts that predict some serious problems for humanity in the future.

      Primarily I would include in this:

      -unsustainable population levels

      -resource imbalance requiring extraction of non-renewable resources

      -climate change due to carbon fuel dependence

      etc.

      Given these facts, predicting a 100% “better” future for all of humanity is a pretty shaky argument to try and make.

      “You probably are incapable of looking back 100 years, comparing then with now, and admitting things have gotten better.”

      You are projecting a simplistic view of a “doomer” onto me. My views are far more complicated than just some simplistic designation of “better” or “worse” upon all of humanity.

      “You are probably CFN-wired only to see darkness and catastrophe even though the reality is no one can predict the future.”

      All of human history is full of darkness and catastrophe. A betting man would put his wager on more of the same in the future.

      “You are being dishonest in not saying things COULD get better.”

      Oh, please. Omission in one blog comment is not dishonesty. Most of your posts, on the other hand…

      • PeakEverything July 30, 2013 at 1:22 pm #

        What I should have said is:

        This will be my last post responding directly to you today, “janet.”

  91. janet July 30, 2013 at 1:08 pm #

    PeakEverything said: “If not, just stare at the ceiling and think of England.” Meaning what?

    C’mon PeakEverything, get with the program. Or at least read between the lines. How can anyone possibly relax believing that England is being overrun by swarms of Muslims and colored people, which is what worries anti dod and janos.

    • Trean July 30, 2013 at 3:28 pm #

      Actually it is and government statistics bear that fact out. The ONS has already admitted that it ‘misplaced’ over two million non european immigrants during the last labour administration. They currently estimate that in Kent alone there may well be 300, 000 people living in unregistered addresses. These are converted garages, outhouses, sheds and small industrial buildings. The problem is so severe that police are using helicopters with IR cameras to identify buildings being used. These unoffical, non taxpaying, nonregistered free loaders put an immense strain on services such as the NHS, Police and welfare agencies.
      Of course in Janet’s bubble these people do not exist despite such evidence to the contrary!

  92. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 1:12 pm #

    On Romneycare in Massachusetts, the precursor to Obamacare, I guess it depends on whom you ask. If you ask janet, you’ll be told it’s all good….even great, but if you ask the people of Massachusetts, the majority will tell you the opposite. Who are you going to believe?

    http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/opinion/op_ed/2011/04/romneycare_big_bust

    Romneycare a big bust

    As governor, Mitt Romney accomplished a feat that most Republicans would have thought impossible. With the single stroke of a pen he convinced the liberal population of Massachusetts that they, too, hate government-run health care.

    As a health care plan, Romneycare is an unmitigated fiasco. It has caused costs to skyrocket, insurance premiums to soar and nonprofit providers like Blue Cross to suffer hundreds of millions of dollars in losses.

    Now, keep in mind that Romneycare, like Obamacare is not “government-run health care” or universal health care. It”s mandatory health insurance. One of the distinguishing differences from Obamacare is, Romneycare has a public option. Obamacare, instead, utilizes a subsidy forcing taxpayers to account for their health care insurance premiums via their tax returns, thus adding unnecessary complexity to an already screwed up process.

    A new Suffolk University poll showed that nearly half of Massachusetts voters say the law isn’t helping, while just 38 percent say it is. As Michael Cannon at the Cato Institute pointed out, Romneycare is almost as unpopular here as Obama- care is across America.

    That’s not supposed to happen.

    Romneycare has also blown a hole in Romney’s reputation as a “numbers” guy, a savvy business guru who, like him or not, knows how to handle your money.

    Uh, anyone checked these Romneycare numbers lately?

    Taxpayers now spend $2.5 billion more on our state’s health care budget. The direct cost of Romneycare has gone from less than $100 million a year to at least $400 million — and even that number is suspect. But we do know we’ve spent more than $35 million in a single year on health services for illegal immigrants, and tens of millions more on illegal, unallowable or outright bogus claims.

    If you want to know why Romneycare’s costs keep rising, check out this simple statistic from the Patrick administration: In 2006, 85 percent of the insured in Massachusetts got their coverage through private group coverage at work. Today that’s down to 79 percent.

    Meanwhile the percentage on the MassHealth dole has doubled, and more than 150,000 people are now subsidized through Commonwealth Care.

    Romneycare supporters like Brandeis University health policy professor Stuart Altman brag that “the basic reason for the reform was to extend coverage, and on this, we have done amazingly well.” But that’s only if you use the phrase “extend coverage” to mean “the government forced you to buy your own insurance.”

    Romneycare hasn’t made that insurance more affordable — just the opposite. Many people have seen their premiums double in the past five years. Supporters also never mention that when Romneycare was signed, Massachusetts already had one of the nation’s lowest rates of uninsured.

    Billions of dollars spent to accomplish so very little — that’s Romneycare’s legacy, and a glimpse of Obamacare’s future.

    Once again, the author is wrong about Romneycare and Obamacare being universal healthcare. Universal healthcare is Single Payer, and in neither case was that ever considered.

    • PeakEverything July 30, 2013 at 1:21 pm #

      And there you have it. janet’s silly, shallow defense of the status quo juxtaposed with the actual situation. Thanks Carol.

  93. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 1:16 pm #

    Don’t worry be happy.

    I’m not worried, and I’m as happy as a bug in a rug. Don’t confuse my critical analysis with worry and unhappiness. The two are mutually exclusive, for the most part.

  94. janet July 30, 2013 at 1:22 pm #

    What is your definition of “universal”? Some people are going to refuse to enroll, but when you get down to 3% it is effectively “universal” not unlike 3% unemployment is considered to be full employment.

    “According to a new analysis, health care reform in Massachusetts, popularly known as “Romneycare,” didn’t cause hospital use or costs to increase, even as it drove down the number of people without health insurance. Amresh Hanchate, an economist with the Veterans Affairs Boston Healthcare System and lead author of the study, which he presented Thursday at an American Heart Association conference, says that the results of the study were surprising. When [RomneyCare] was implemented, about 8.4 percent of Massachusetts citizens were uninsured; by 2010, just 3 percent were uninsured. Uninsured rates fell most among minorities: In 2006, 15 percent of African-Americans were uninsured, in 2010, that rate was at 3.4 percent. Uninsured rates for Hispanics in the state fell from 20 percent to 9.2 percent during the same period.”

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  95. janet July 30, 2013 at 1:25 pm #

    PeakEverything said: “And there you have it. janet’s silly, shallow defense of the status quo juxtaposed with the actual situation. Thanks Carol.”

    Carol is saying a public option was not considered and she is correct. But RomneyCare, as a public-private hybrid achieved what is effectively universal health care in Massachusetts without increasing costs.

    “According to a new analysis, health care reform in Massachusetts, popularly known as “Romneycare,” didn’t cause hospital use or costs to increase, even as it drove down the number of people without health insurance. Amresh Hanchate, an economist with the Veterans Affairs Boston Healthcare System and lead author of the study, which he presented Thursday at an American Heart Association conference, says that the results of the study were surprising. When [RomneyCare] was implemented, about 8.4 percent of Massachusetts citizens were uninsured; by 2010, just 3 percent were uninsured. Uninsured rates fell most among minorities: In 2006, 15 percent of African-Americans were uninsured, in 2010, that rate was at 3.4 percent. Uninsured rates for Hispanics in the state fell from 20 percent to 9.2 percent during the same period.”

  96. Janos Skorenzy July 30, 2013 at 1:27 pm #

    The most grotesque “power couple” ever. They make James Carville and Mary Madeleine look normal as apple pie.

    http://www.vdare.com/posts/huma-anthony-diverse-political-odd-couple-strains-boundaries-of-sensibility-and-security

    Rush just called Huma Hillary’s body woman.

  97. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 1:29 pm #

    What is your definition of “universal”?

    No, the term is universal healthcare, not universal. A proper definition of universal healthcare doesn’t involve, in any way, shape or form, insurance companies and their mandatory double-digit profits. Single Payer is an example of universal healthcare. I know you know this, and you’re just being coy, but it needs to be emphasized, nonetheless.

  98. janet July 30, 2013 at 1:34 pm #

    Carol said: “I’m not worried, and I’m as happy as a bug in a rug. Don’t confuse my critical analysis with worry and unhappiness. The two are mutually exclusive, for the most part.”

    Thanks for that clarification. This critical analysis is fun, isn’t it? Of course, there are some who don’t want to see others having fun, or being relaxed, or being happy. Terrible things are about to happen, doncha know, just around the corner. We’ll know soon, because JHK this week says we are only “months” away:

    I will go so far to predict that the recent national mood of wishful fantasy is running out of gas and that a more fatalistic view of our manifold predicaments will take its place in a few months. It would at least signal a rapprochment of truth with reality.

    People here on CFN eat that up. They consider most Americans to be fat, lazy and stupid. CFN is rubbing its hands together with glee at the thought that the “sheeple” are going to get their comeuppance. Damn straight! Reality gonna slap ’em up the side of the head… in a few months.

    Then, when we are in 2014 and nothing has happened there will be another post announcing in just a few “months” TSHTF. And so on, and so forth, per seculum secularum It’s the way CFN rolls, and I have enjoyed it for the last 14 years, since 1999, when Y2K was going to be a disaster, just a “few months” away.

    And you can bet true believers like PeakEverything will continue to be emotionally thrilled by the prospect of massive human suffering.

  99. PeakEverything July 30, 2013 at 1:42 pm #

    People come here for various reasons. There is (or at least used to be) a good clatch of people who were conversant on relevant topics such as Peak Oil, climate change, etc. Some just want to test their presumptions in a debate. Others want to present information. Still others are more like trolls or astroturfers. In other words, it is a typical internet comments section. But to say that people who post here agree 100% with JHK’s view of the world that collapse is just a few months away constitutes an inaccurate projection. One of JHK’s primary flaws to my mind is being too hung up on the time table, the exact details of which will only be known after the fact. Historical prediction in general is difficult and prone to exaggeration.

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  100. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 1:43 pm #

    We’ll know soon, because JHK this week says we are only “months” away

    Yes, I noted this when I read the piece and wasn’t quite sure what he meant by it since it’s ambiguous. Maybe a carrot to the “Git one” and “Howdy” audience, I don’t know.

    Another thing I noted that needs further clarification because as it’s stated it doesn’t square with my observations and experience, is this:

    The idea that techno-industrial society is headed toward a collapse has become very unpopular the last couple of years.

    I’ve observed just the opposite. The alternative media is increasingly saturated with this collapse prognosis, and some of it is beginning to leak into the mainstream….something heretofore I would have considered improbable and unlikely as tightly controlled as the MSM is.

  101. janet July 30, 2013 at 1:51 pm #

    “Still others are more like trolls or astroturfers.”

    I don’t know what you mean by this. Every single post on CFN is providing information or responding to something expressed by another post in a manner that is relevant.

    There used to be a “troll” who sent endless spam in Chinese, contributing nothing to the discussion. I don’t see anyone here who is not contributing to the discussion. Just because someone expresses a contrary opinion does not make them a troll, or a paid agent. People here need to grow up and realize the world contains a multitude of perspectives. To challenge the CFN dogma is not to troll.

    I realize you have vowed not to respond to me, an indication of your intolerance, your closed-mind, but I will continue to respond to you… respectfully, without name calling, without using bad words. I love you, PeakEverything.

    • Neon Vincent July 30, 2013 at 3:25 pm #

      “There used to be a “troll” who sent endless spam in Chinese, contributing nothing to the discussion.”

      I remember him. He so incensed me that I was motivated enough to translate the Monty Python catchphrase “Bloody Vikings” into Chinese: ????? When back-translated, it comes out as “Damned Pirates.” While it loses the idiomatic flavor of the original British English, it gains the imputation that the goods being hawked are less than authentic. Either way, the insulting nature of the remark comes through.

      That written, I wouldn’t even grace him with being called a troll. Trolls are there to disrupt the conversation, divert attention, or just mess with people’s heads. The Chinese poster wasn’t really here to do any of those. He was just a spammer.

      At the risk of being repetitious, I’m going to post a link to one of my science of trolling entries. I have this feeling that I’ll be doing that a lot around here to clarify what a troll is.

      http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/2013/02/more-on-science-of-trolling.html

      • Neon Vincent July 30, 2013 at 3:27 pm #

        I see that the current version of the site doesn’t support Chinese characters. That means that our unlamented former spammer from the Middle Kingdom won’t be able to post anything but question marks here. No loss!

        • K-Dog July 30, 2013 at 7:57 pm #

          Methinks the origin of the Chinese character drones of Zion past was actually:

          Booz Allen Hamilton
          733 Bishop St Ste 3000, Honolulu HI

          The timing of them always was somewhere off the west coast. That we know.

          Or maybe it’s true they only look. 😉

  102. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 1:59 pm #

    It’d be cool to have 16% mortgage interest rates again, wouldn’t it? I’m thinking the cast of characters here would keel over and die right on the spot in celebration.

  103. janet July 30, 2013 at 2:38 pm #

    “It’d be cool to have 16% mortgage interest rates again, wouldn’t it?”

    It would be cause for some to scream “see, fiat money causes hyperinflation; you can’t print money endlessly”

    The fact that we have been printing money endlessly for decades and have an inflation rate less than 2% doesn’t seem to cause them to question their beliefs about fiat money. They seem impervious to facts.

    2013 USA INFLATION RATES

    Jan … 1.6

    Feb … 2.0

    Mar … 1.5

    Apr … 1.1

    May … 1.4

    Jun … 1.8

    You can run the printing presses to print paper fiat money with no hyperinflation. We’ve done it for decades.

    You can engage in Quantitative Easing with no hyperinflation.

  104. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 2:48 pm #

    You can run the printing presses to print paper fiat money with no hyperinflation. We’ve done it for decades.

    You can engage in Quantitative Easing with no hyperinflation.

    Yes, you can so long as your currency is the preeminent global currency. If and when it’s not, well, that’s another story of, and for, another time.

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  105. janet July 30, 2013 at 3:02 pm #

    Carol said: “If and when it’s not…”

    You sound like a Goldman CEO.

    “Most risk management is really just advanced contingency planning and disciplining yourself to realize that, given enough time, very low probability events not only can happen, but they absolutely will happen. Once you think that something is improbable and everybody thinks it, people modify their behavior in a way that makes it more probable,” said Blankfein.

    Perfect expression of CFN dogma: “Things work… until they don’t.”

    This shows who CFN is aligned with: Goldman Sachs CEO thinking.

  106. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 3:03 pm #

    U.S. Historical Inflation Rates

    1914… 2.0

    1918… 19.7

    1922… -11.1

    1932… -10.1

    1942… 11.3

    1947… 18.1

    1955… -0.7

    1964… 1.6

    1975… 11.8

    1980… 13.9

    1987… 1.5

    1995… 2.8

    2005… 3.0

    2009… 0.0

    2012… 2.9

    *Note, the method used to calculate these rates has changed over time allowing for the more current rates to be understated in comparison to earlier years. Nonetheless, it does show a pattern of vacillation, although in the last couple of decades, perhaps due to the tinkering with the method used to calculate the rate (massaging), the discernible pattern of wild vacillation appears to have subsided and is practically non-existent.

  107. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 3:07 pm #

    Carol said: “If and when it’s not…”

    You sound like a Goldman CEO.

    No, I sound like you. Remember, you yourself said things change….there’s an ebb and a flow in all things, especially all things human-related. Are you backtracking now and saying that doesn’t apply to the U.S. dollar and its preeminence in the world? It’s important to remain consistent, right?

  108. janet July 30, 2013 at 3:26 pm #

    Carol said: “…the discernible pattern of wild vacillation appears to have subsided and is practically non-existent.”

    Economic stability is the result of good government. Government, it turns out, is not Kabuki theater. Government helps citizens by providing an economic environment where fear is minimized and opportunity for advancement is maximized. It’s all good.

    Specifically, of 193 countries in the world, the USA is in the top 20 countries (using the Human Poverty Index) with these criteria:

    ** Probability at birth of not surviving to age 60 (% of cohort)

    ** People lacking functional literacy skills (% of people scoring in the range called “Level 1” in the International Adult Literacy Survey, age 16-65, 1994–2003).

    ** Long-term unemployment (12 months or more, % of labour force), 2005.

    ** Population below 50% of median adjusted household disposable income (%)

    People who consider things to be bad in the USA usually have not lived in the third world to have a basis for comparison. Longevity, literacy, employment, and income are better in the USA than in most other countries.

    • Endofmore July 31, 2013 at 5:11 am #

      all those factors you list are in fact true, but they depend exclusively on energy availability and input. As long as the USA and the rest of the developed industrial world can continue to get hold of enough oil (and coal and gas) to maintain its infrastructure, then we will remain healthy and well fed.
      The ‘government’ has not provided an ‘economic environment’, oil has done that.
      National prosperity and oil supply graphs fit neatly on the same upward trend
      Already 1 in 6 of Americans is dependent on food supplements, similar figures apply elsewhere, they call it different things. that’s because oil is beginning to price food beyond the reach of the poorest in our society
      don’t depend on an infinite supply of fuel to continue with our food supplies, as the cost of it rises, so poverty will climb our ladder of prosperity. the food supply system will inevitably break down.
      Our money is loaned into existence on the collateral of endless oil supplies being available to power our future. http://www.endofmore.com/?p=1188 That’s where our money comes from, it is nothing more than oil-debt. As oil depletes to nothing, so our money will deplete to nothing. talk on here of the dollar losing its value ‘in 100 years’ is a nonsense that defies belief.
      Oil and money and food are now the same thing, in lockstep with one another,

  109. janet July 30, 2013 at 3:38 pm #

    …saying that doesn’t apply to the U.S. dollar and its preeminence in the world? It’s important to remain consistent, right?

    I’m saying that in a hundred years, in the 22nd century, the dollar could weaken. Of course, it is possible. But we have to work with the facts we have, not with the fears we project.

    The rise in US yields now places the USD into the basket of yielding currencies, which suggest further support is likely to build over the over medium term.

    The USA employment data has continued to provide positive signals for the USD … But, the positive news is broadening beyond the labour market, with a favorable impact on the US consumer also starting to become evident, while our USA economists now see US Q2 GDP tracking at 1.8% instead of 1.2%

    Treasury yields and the dollar are both gaining strength. If we look at historic charts of the US dollar we can clearly see the dollar bottoming out in 2008. The dollar has seen slow momentum, but overall it’s getting much stronger as of late. This trend in my view, along with treasury yields gaining bodes well for a stronger U.S. economy.

    But if you want to speculate that someday the dollar might collapse, leading to destruction and apocalypse, be my guest. I choose to stick to current economic reality.

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  110. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 4:01 pm #

    I’m saying that in a hundred years, in the 22nd century, the dollar could weaken. Of course, it is possible. But we have to work with the facts we have, not with the fears we project.

    I am working with the facts we have, and I am not stating anything out of fear. You infer that from two words; “if” and “when”. That’s a stretch, janet, and in fact, such a stretch, I’d call it, psychologically, projection on your part. You don’t know if it’s a hundred years, or ten. I don’t either, but we do know, and you have admitted in your astute comments to others, things can and do change. If the dollar isn’t the preeminent currency in ten, or a hundred, years, it doesn’t mean we should fear, necessarily. Inflation isn’t always something to fear, either, as many South American countries have proven.

  111. anti dod July 30, 2013 at 5:07 pm #

    Everything on this page is ‘ass okas’, except for Neon Vincent. Gee.

    • pro dod July 30, 2013 at 5:11 pm #

      You’re asoka? I never would have guessed.

    • ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 6:51 pm #

      Email JHK his’self? Not working too *GUD* for me, but your response might get more *REPOSE*…

      I nevah your fan, *ANTI* – but at least you’re not using multiple aliases to respond to yourself *OVER AND OVER*. I didn’t poast for about a month, until Sunday last week (and that whuz certainly *pointless*).

      I’m still not quite sure that these socks aren’t all JHK his’self, developing characters for his next fiction work (Mehetabel?!…) I mean, I ‘membaz seeing Janet quoting *itself* last week – but alas, that thread is gone. And this week, there is 1 instance of Carol responding to *itself* – but I’m pretty sure that one’s gone as well (poor sock can’t even ‘membaz to change aliases B4 responding).

      What I can say, is that the 400+PPM CO2 is no concern, compared to the methane hydrides evaporating from ocean floors – along with methane from fracking outgassing. Things are seriously gunna get *HOT* (even tho the sun seemed to settle at the 50% irradiance point in the 40 year *CYCLE*)/./

    • Neon Vincent July 31, 2013 at 10:04 am #

      I’m glad you recognize me as a distinct person. I’ve been an unwilling participant in other people’s online Fregoli Delusions. I can tell you from experience that it wears thin.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fregoli_delusion

  112. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 5:09 pm #

    Economic stability is the result of good government.

    Yes, I agree, good government brings economic stability via massaged numbers and an extremely high ranking on the unhappiness index.

    http://shanghaiist.com/2011/05/31/north_korea_releases_global_happine.php

    North Korean “Global Happiness Index” ranks China no. 1, USA dead last

    China is the happiest place on earth(!!) according to a new global happiness index released by North Korea’s Chosun Central Television. China earned 100 out of 100 points, followed closely by North Korea (98 points), then Cuba, Iran, and Venezuela. Coming in at 203rd place is America (or rather “the American Empire”), with only 3 happiness points. South Korea got a measly 18 points for 152nd place. While their representative representatives might not show the vivacity on their faces (and a few slip ups might have been caught on video) I guess China’s been right to gush about Pyongyang’s future. Nothing says happy like government-issued proclamations of happiness.

  113. janet July 30, 2013 at 5:13 pm #

    Carol said: “If the dollar isn’t the preeminent currency in ten, or a hundred, years, it doesn’t mean we should fear, necessarily. ”

    Definitely no reason to fear if the dollar is not the preeminent currency, as most of the countries in South America show. Life can be very good in countries which have their own currencies. I know.

    anti-dod believes I am talking to myself when I respond to you. LOL! and we have such different opinions with respect of Obama, antisemitism, economic policy, etc.

    • Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 5:16 pm #

      anti-dod believes I am talking to myself when I respond to you. LOL! and we have such different opinions with respect of Obama, antisemitism, economic policy, etc.

      Funny, I don’t remember debating antisemitism with you. How do you know our opinions are different as it relates to antisemitism?

  114. janet July 30, 2013 at 5:19 pm #

    BTW, even if Republicans shut down the government they will not stop the implementation of ACA.

    The nonpartisan Congressional Research Service issued a report on Monday stating that the ACA law would still be in effect even if lawmakers hold up the functioning of the government over budget disputes.

    Nothing can stop Obamacare, nothing can stop Americans from having health insurance, nothing can stop the reigning in of out-of-control private health insurance companies. No more double-digit premium increases, no more dropping people when they get sick, no more refusals for “pre-existing conditions,” no more irresponsible spending on overhead, no more abuse of consumers have an illness.

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  115. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 5:24 pm #

    nothing can stop Americans from having health insurance

    Yes, even if you force them to carry it with penalty of jail time if they don’t. The best way to reign in insurance companies is not handing them coerced-into-captivity “customers”, but rather by eliminating the middle man skimming, like the mafia in Vegas, profit off the top unnecessarily.

  116. janet July 30, 2013 at 5:29 pm #

    Nothing says happy like government-issued proclamations of happiness.

    I provided specific criteria and how they are measured objectively. I did not make a simple proclamation. My ranking of the USA in the top 20 countries is defensible.

  117. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 5:31 pm #

    No more double-digit premium increases, no more dropping people when they get sick, no more refusals for “pre-existing conditions,” no more irresponsible spending on overhead, no more abuse of consumers have an illness.

    As I read this, the following played in my head. I love this song…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UythVvkS6cA

    It’s going to be GREAT! Life IS good!

  118. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 5:33 pm #

    I provided specific criteria and how they are measured objectively. I did not make a simple proclamation. My ranking of the USA in the top 20 countries is defensible.

    I’m not arguing with you. North Korea’s index is equally defensible. Don’t be so defensive. Relax, grasshopper. We’re having fun!!

  119. janet July 30, 2013 at 5:48 pm #

    Yes, even if you force them to carry it with penalty of jail time if they don’t.

    Jail time? Ooh, scary! I see you are working the fear element again.

    Here are the facts:

    Under the mandatory coverage provision, individuals who are not covered by an acceptable insurance policy will be charged an annual penalty of $95, or up to 1% of income over the filing minimum, whichever is greater; this will rise to a minimum of $695 ($2,085 for families), or 2.5% of income over the filing minimum, by 2016.

    Exemptions are permitted for religious reasons, members of health care sharing ministries, or for those for whom the least expensive policy would exceed 8% of their income.

    In 2010, the Commissioner speculated that insurance providers would supply a form confirming essential coverage to both individuals and the IRS; individuals would attach this form to their Federal tax return.

    Those who aren’t covered will be assessed the penalty on their Federal tax return. In the wording of the law, a taxpayer who fails to pay the penalty “shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty”, and cannot have liens or levies placed on their property, but the IRS will be able to withhold future tax refunds from them.

    The individual responsibility requirement does not apply to some:

    ** people who cannot afford coverage (defined as those who would pay more than 8 percent of their household income for their premiums)

    ** people without insurance for less than three months

    ** individuals with incomes below the tax filing threshold (In 2012, the tax filing threshold was $9,750 for individuals and $19,500 for couple)

    Exemptions will also be given to specified categories of individuals, for example for religious reasons, American Indians, Americans living abroad for at least one year, and incarcerated individuals.

    SO, WE HAVE IN THE ACA LAW: NO CRIMINAL PROSECUTION FOR NONPAYMENT, NO LIENS, NO LEVIES . WE HAVE EXEMPTIONS FOR WHOLE GROUPS OF PEOPLE.

    GEE, NO WHERE IN ACA DOES IT TALK ABOUT PUTTING PEOPLE IN JAIL.

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  120. janet July 30, 2013 at 5:50 pm #

    “Relax, grasshopper. We’re having fun!!”

    I am not your grasshopper. I am a grown woman with a brain.

  121. BackRowHeckler July 30, 2013 at 5:55 pm #

    Let me tell you something: gardening is not easy. I came to it rather late, even tho my Yankee ancestors farmed around here for 10 generations. I was a mill town kid, but just down the road there were woods and meadows to hunt in, and rivers and streams to fish in. Of course they’re all gone now, plowed under by real estate developers. The climate in Connecticut is favorable and the growing season is 150 days long. I have 2 acres, the soil is good, there’s plenty of sun and rain. For all that, on 50 tomato plants I see only 2 or 3 tomatoes, peppers have done nothing, no zuchini to speak of, asparagus abysmal, squash hardly evident, and no sign of pumpkins or beets. The only thing that was pretty good were cucumbers! And I really work at it I’m out there every day. I guess you have to have a knack for it, like my neighbor, who is a master gardener. I think he pities me, but he humors me at the same time. He’s a good guy. I think I’ll go back to shooting, treasure hunting and trout fishing. If I had to live on what I grew here in my garden I would starve to death pretty quick . If TLE kicks in in a big way, many of us probably won’t survive, especially yours truly.

    –BackRowHeckler

    • ozone July 30, 2013 at 6:50 pm #

      Mmmm — hmmm, death by starvation; sounds like fun! I’m so IN!
      Well, the crows should eat just fine if we’ve got the decency to drag our bags of bones out into the great wide open before expiring.

      • K-Dog July 30, 2013 at 7:44 pm #

        The cycle of life. Somebody’s lunch.

        • ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 7:52 pm #

          I swear I heard a *sw33t jam* from Ozone (the 70 yr old geezah) a couple years *BACK* – he should be more proud, and link his *JAMS*!!!

          I don’t remember all the details, tho – howevah… (Soker not too happy w/ all this *UP-THREAD* action)

      • ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 11:18 pm #

        I am the douche… Is there any *HOPE*!!!

    • ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 7:16 pm #

      Let me give you 2 paths to *wisdom* here.

      First, tomatoes can be self-fertilized – bang the plants *daily*/./ Just whack the tomato cages…

      Second – *PERENNIALS* – get mint, thyme, rosemary, sage, raspberries, blackberries, grapes, fruit trees, nut trees, *ETC*. Sure – I do still grow tomatoes, but it takes a literal *SH!Tload of fertilizer to keep them *growing*… The perennials – piece of *CAKE*…

      Oh, and grow sugar snap peas/vine beans on every perennial plant’s roots (they infuse nitrogen). And clover’s not a bad bet, either (EVERYWHERE).

      • ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 7:18 pm #

        Garlic and oregano also work *wonders*…

      • ozone July 30, 2013 at 7:22 pm #

        Thanks for the tips!
        I’m finding the “Tripp method” of post-season cutting of the plants at ground level and adding more mulch on top for overwintering works dandy for ‘fertilizing’.

        • ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 7:33 pm #

          Yeah – that’s the layering technique from “Gaia’s Garden”, I believe. Just pile the carbon a foot tall in fall (cardboard/newspaper at the bottom), and let it break down through April!!!

          (I knew you’d bring Tripp back into the fold! Suspicion makes me think *OTHERWISE* [who R those socks?!…] )

    • ozone July 30, 2013 at 7:16 pm #

      My gardening experiment worked a bit better than yours this season (and I consider every year experimental with different seed varieties, saved seed and varying techniques).

      Top-mulching has been a LARGE boon this year I suspect. Held in the moisture; kept the rains from compacting the soil; gave the soil bacteria, insects and fungi plenty of munchies; kept the weeds smufficated or very easy to pull.

      Keep at it man, you’ve put a lot of effort into it so far. We’re not talking the “psychology of previous investment” here, we’re talking fresh eats with known inputs. 🙂

      Try some quickies like lettuce, spinach and greenie beanies to renew your confidence. Seeds for this year can still be had at low, low discount prices!

      • ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 7:23 pm #

        Heh, you *sun-of-a-gun*!!! We all in this *TOGETHER*!!! Composting/mulching is the only way out here…

        • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 1:14 am #

          Well, *MAYBE* – hehe!@@! GIMME A KISS

          • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 1:17 am #

            GOOD LUCK xxx ooo

    • Karah July 30, 2013 at 7:35 pm #

      Don’t take JHK’s wet dreams about the future so seriously.
      Most of his hopes stem from his personal desire (and those of many others of his same age range and persuasion) to not be held accountable to any political/financial/religious institutions whatsoever.
      The challenge, then, is how does one live with absolutely zero accountability. It’s not possible in any kind of society because we need each other. How much we need each other is debatable and changes due to the circumstances. We all share basic needs for survival (food and shelter) and those have never failed to be met. What’s failing are the institutions that tout themselves to be the bulwarks.

      Like Detroit, when everything failed what did people do? They sure as heck didn’t stick it out, start gardening, ignoring the city codes and forming their own housing associations responsible for maintaining whatever was left and providing services through a central pool of money and volunteers. Why don’t black people form huge communes and have multiple wives like the Mormons?

      The reason why pre industrial “jobs” and “careers” will never return is because people don’t want to do the work. We have the world that the world wants. JHK is not the world; however, he isn’t offering a more practical way of life for large communities of people. There’s always going to be paupers. JHK is no misanthrope, he hates what people say and do to themselves. So, an option is to provide another arrangement for living. He still hasn’t figured THAT out either.

      • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 1:18 am #

        You very unconvincing – just *SAYIN*.

    • Nastarana July 31, 2013 at 12:28 am #

      This last year has been the worst for home gardens I have seen in about 20 years. I also live in the NE. The heavy summer rains literally drowned plants and seeds. I am now pretending we are going to have a late frost and planting a fall garden. The one silver lining is that I have so many fast growing weeds, I am sure to have awesome compost next year. And the soil is so damp that the weeds are easy to pull out.

      Lettuce went immediately to seed, cabbages got eaten, radishes didn’t bulb. Squash either didn’t grow or didn’t sprout at all. Beans look not to bad so far, but I planted them late, during the last week of the deluges.

      You might like lasagna gardening, which means spread a heavy mulch and plant your plants into it.

      • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 1:21 am #

        Hardly true – it’s been the same for decades – you all GREENY-green makes my day.

        • Nastarana July 31, 2013 at 11:55 am #

          Huh?

          “GREENY-green” is your label, not mine.

          Guess I failed to pay the monthly tax to the so-called “convenience” stores. Too bad, so sad.

    • Janos Skorenzy July 31, 2013 at 12:59 am #

      Emerson, anxious to be true to his convictions, said, “He who does his work frees a slave”. So he endeavored to garden at Brook Farm. But over time he saw his thinking and writing suffer and realized that there was a unbridgeable gap between the higher life and the lower. His conferees at Brook Farm came to the same conclusion – as did the Greeks long ago. But they were more honest and came to the conclusion that slavery must be for many if the higher life would be for a few.

      It doesn’t have to be “Slavery” per se, serfdom or the servitude of being an employee will suffice. This gives me no pleasure btw. I wish it was otherwise. Ozone always thinks the worst of my motivations – one of the penalties that comes with speaking the Truth.

      • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 1:25 am #

        Emerson? haha – wash your mouth out with *ACID*. We all know who E is. Quit pretending your nazi boyz gunna save *U*. Acid douche.

      • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 1:27 am #

        So do you stroke yourself high or low? Gotta be nice believing you’re still *WHITE*…

  122. janet July 30, 2013 at 6:05 pm #

    If TLE kicks in in a big way, many of us probably won’t survive, especially yours truly.

    And if TLE does no kick in in a big way, we live forever?

    TLE or no TLE, TSHTF or no TSHTF, WMBH or no WMBH… we are all going to die, without exception… and it’s nothing to get excited about. People do it every day.

  123. BackRowHeckler July 30, 2013 at 6:10 pm #

    You’re correct. That’s pretty much what John Maynard Keynes said about the future, too.

  124. janet July 30, 2013 at 6:18 pm #

    Yes, and Keynes also said: “In truth, the gold standard is already a barbarous relic.”

    And he said that in 1924!

    Some people still haven’t caught on yet. They still be buyin’ gold.

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  125. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 7:32 pm #

    I am not your grasshopper. I am a grown woman with a brain.

    Even if you were a grasshopper, I would never claim you as mine, so your use of “your” is inappropriate. I never implied it. I think you’re being redundant when you say “grown woman.” “Woman” inherently implies “grown”…unless, of course, you’re implying you shop at Lane Bryant, then I understand and point taken.

    • alpha mail July 30, 2013 at 8:21 pm #

      Asoka may shop at Lane Bryant, but he’s not a woman. At least in the traditional sense of the word.

  126. janet July 30, 2013 at 7:36 pm #

    JHK said: the result can be seen in the millions of unemployed Ford F-110 owners drinking themselves into an incipient political fury.

    In the entire history of F-series trucks Ford sold about 34 million. There is no evidence of how many Ford truck owners drink, or how many Ford truck owners have any fury. Think what the Tea Party Patriots could have done with 34 million supporters. Never happened. Probably never will. The aging middle class is not going to engage in 60s style protest on Social Security. They don’t even write angry letters to the editor. There is no fury. Unless it is at the elected Tea Party representatives who have sold out already.

  127. janet July 30, 2013 at 7:41 pm #

    “Grown woman” just means I am at least 18 years old.

    I was a bit defensive and I apologize.

    • Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 7:56 pm #

      It’s all good. We’re just having fun. I didn’t take it personally. I’ve learned to take nothing personally. Teflon’s my middle name.

  128. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 7:44 pm #

    Jail time? Ooh, scary! I see you are working the fear element again.

    No fear. Of course, I was being facetious when I said jail time, but no liens and levies can always be easily changed in the coming years, if need be. If enough people opt out of purchasing insurance and the penalties mount, Congress could very well change the provisions to apply levies and liens to include garnishment of wages. Remember, the Supreme Court in deciding the ACA was constitutional, did so by considering the so-called “fee” for not purchasing insurance a tax. It is a tax, so my point is, if you’re taxing people anyway, why not tax them like you do for Medicare and eliminate the insurance middle man and the unnecessary skimming of profit? You keep dodging this. Why? It’s central. Do you believe in giving insurance executives big bonuses at the expense of people living on the margins? If so, you’re a sick creep. What would Allah say about you stealing from the poor like that and giving to the rich? You want to steal their tax refunds and give it to wealthy insurance executives so they can pay for their third, fourth and fifth homes scattered across the planet? What a weirdo. Allah is ashamed of you. You should be ashamed of you. You are in bed with Satan. You have sold your soul.

  129. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 7:57 pm #

    Don’t take JHK’s wet dreams about the future so seriously.

    Are wet dreams possible at that age?

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  130. Ignatz July 30, 2013 at 8:00 pm #

    Great to hear you are out of hospital and still attached to your head. That’s not a business I would like to trust to some knife wielding relative stranger.

    You mentioned, on your latest audio, something about there being no double jeopardy in the USA legal system? Problem is there seems to be very limited access to single jeoprody. As I understand, it is more a streamlined type plea bargain system?

    Any idea how much GDP depends on quick processing by plea bargain? i imagine if the system got all hung up on due process and justice it could really clog the business gears of prisoner housing?

  131. ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 8:01 pm #

    Methinks *BREAKING BAD* provides a bettah response, than those Soker socks!!! I mean, taking out the Mexican Cartel single-handedly!!!

    Oh yeah, soker, what up *DOG*! You still *alpha*? (methinks *NOT*) Me bets my 8lb long-haired chihuahua would eat you for *LUNCH* (do you *EVAH* shut the F* up? Just *askin’*)!!!

    Think: *METHANE*!!!

  132. janet July 30, 2013 at 8:01 pm #

    You keep dodging this. Why? It’s central. Do you believe in giving insurance executives big bonuses at the expense of people living on the margins?

    No, if it was my choice I would have a socialized medical system like the Veterans Administration. Government doctors, government hospitals, and all doctors and staff salaried with no bonuses and no CEOs. Overhead would be 3% instead of 31% because government is more efficient than the private sector.

    Overhead in the individual market is often above 30%. The estimate that total administrative costs consume 31% of U.S. health spending is from research by Drs. David Himmelstein and Steffie Woolhandler and published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2003. The figure would undoubtedly be higher today.

    I agree with you that a single-payer government health care system would be much more efficient and cheaper.

    But at least Obama is forcing more efficiency in the private market. Under the Affordable Care Act, insurance companies are required to spend 80 to 85 percent of premium dollars on medical care and health care quality improvement, rather than on administrative costs or CEO bonuses.

    If they don’t, the insurance companies must provide a refund to their customers. Americans can receives these refunds in several ways: a refund check in the mail; a lump-sum reimbursement to the same account that they used to pay the premium if by credit card or debit card; a reduction in their future premiums; or their employer providing one of the above, or applying the refund in another manner that benefits its employees, such as more generous benefits.

    While most insurance companies are spending premium dollars consumers pay on their health care, before the enactment of the health care law, there was no way for all Americans to make sure that their premium dollars were primarily being spent on their health care and its improvement. The health care law’s “Medical Loss Ratio” provision cracked down on the worst insurance companies that were not providing Americans the value consumers expect from their premiums.

    According to a recent report from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, in 2012 8.5 million consumers received half a billion dollars in refunds – with the average consumer receiving a refund of around $100 per family. Moreover, in 2012, 77.8 million consumers saved $3.4 billion up front on their premiums as insurance companies operated more efficiently as compared to 2011.

    • ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 8:15 pm #

      Your bold/unbold text makes you *SOO* much more believable (SOKER).

      Single payer? I don’t think I saw that in your *TOTAL DISCOURSE*. (but I might be *wrong*)

      Haha, U know my 8lb longhaired chihuahua would have ate you (HATE YOU?)

      • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 12:52 am #

        Let’s just be honest – he’ll love you like you were GHAD’z next coming – I *SWEAR*!!!

  133. janet July 30, 2013 at 8:14 pm #

    “If enough people opt out of purchasing insurance …”

    People don’t want to risk bankruptcy due to a medical emergency, so they will purchase the insurance.

    The reason for making it mandatory to purchase insurance is to lower costs and to prevent freeloaders who expect others to pay their medical costs in the most expensive way: the emergency room.

  134. janet July 30, 2013 at 8:17 pm #

    ZrCrypDiK said: Me bets my 8lb long-haired chihuahua would eat you for *LUNCH*

    ZrCrypDiK is more proof that the new website design does not prevent trolls from creating accounts.

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    • ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 10:00 pm #

      He *HATES* you for lunch! ?!?

      • ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 10:03 pm #

        THINK *METHANE*… It’s the 400+PPM CO2 *CURE*. (here and now)

  135. alpha mail July 30, 2013 at 8:17 pm #

    Karah sez: “Like Detroit, when everything failed what did people do? They sure as heck didn’t stick it out, start gardening, ignoring the city codes and forming their own housing associations responsible for maintaining whatever was left and providing services through a central pool of money and volunteers. Why don’t black people form huge communes and have multiple wives like the Mormons?”

    Ummm, because that would require actually working rather than waiting around for the gubmint checks to roll in as well as the food stamps. Technically speaking, they don’t have multiple wives, but they do get hot and heavy with “der hos”, and procreation has not been a problem for them,

  136. janet July 30, 2013 at 8:27 pm #

    White women are doing the procreating.

    Among the U.S.-born, black women had the strongest birth-rate decline from 1990 to 2010, according to a recent report from Pew Social and Demographic Trends. The birth rate—the number of births per 1,000 women aged 15 to 44—declined 29 percent for blacks, 25 percent for Asians, 21 percent for Hispanics, but only 5 percent for whites.

    • alpha mail July 30, 2013 at 10:27 pm #

      But the white ones have jobs. Pity the decline of Asians, though.

  137. progress4what July 30, 2013 at 9:10 pm #

    Thanks for the week’s work, JAMES HOWARD KUNSTLER.
    And you sure have a way with words.

    Of course, you have your detractors – like anyone who spends time in the public eye.

    Unfortunately, your most overly vocal detractor has set up permanent residence on your blog site under the pseudonym janetasoka and/or “carol.”

    You have every reason to ban him/her/it.
    You have every right to ban him/her/it.

    Just do it, JHK.

    • ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 9:58 pm #

      Ahh, prog2cons!!! JHK not too happy with me – however, he seems to *LOVE* the socks… I don’t get it – but it’s not up to *ME*!!! It’s all-too-clear, yet?!?

  138. progress4what July 30, 2013 at 9:20 pm #

    Neon Vincent had a link on his website which is well worth a read, and which shines some light on how janetasokatrolling can degrade your readers perceptions of your work, JHK.

    Here’s an excerpt:
    “Blogging with comments enabled assumes more than transmission of information, it assumes a conversation, and what kind of conversation it ends up being depends on what kind of behavior is encouraged or forbidden, who feels welcome or alienated.”
    (snip)
    “While blogs usually aim to communicate with lurkers as well as readers who post comments (and every piece of evidence I’ve been shown suggests that commenters tend to be a small proportion of readers), most are aiming to reach a core audience that is narrower than “everyone in the world with an internet connection”.

    Your “core audience” is being driven away, JHK.
    Ban the Trolling Twosome.

  139. progress4what July 30, 2013 at 9:23 pm #

    Hi there, IxNoMore, aka ZrCrypDiK.
    How’s it been going for you?

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  140. Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 9:43 pm #

    Your “core audience” is being driven away, JHK.
    Ban the Trolling Twosome.

    janet, is it my imagination, or does this jackass add absolutely nothing to the discussion/conversation? A fantastic conversation has been going on about Obamacare, and this jockstrap comes up with this? What a jacknabber. Is he supposed to be a grown man?

    • progress4what July 30, 2013 at 9:46 pm #

      carol asoka janet carol asoka janet carol janet asoka carol janet janet carol janet carol janet asoka carol janet janet carol janet carol asoka janet carol janet asoka carol asoka janet carol janet asoka carol janet janet carol janet carol janet janet carol janet

      • Carol Newquist July 30, 2013 at 9:49 pm #

        What happened to “Nicole”, nimrod, even though it’s Nichole? You had her in the list before and now you’ve dropped her. Make up your mind.

      • ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 9:59 pm #

        hahaha!!! That’s the *tr00f*!!!

  141. janet July 30, 2013 at 10:01 pm #

    janet, is it my imagination, or does this jackass add absolutely nothing to the discussion/conversation?

    No, not your imagination. He only shows up each week to impede whatever meaningful discussion is ongoing. He derails and distracts by engaging in personal attack. I’m thinking JHK might ban him for his resident impediment antics.

    The Economic Benefits of Immigration
    http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/ib_18.htm#.Ufh7zBYQhjE

  142. janet July 30, 2013 at 10:13 pm #

    What happened to “Nicole”, nimrod, even though it’s Nichole? You had her in the list before and now you’ve dropped her. Make up your mind.

    What happened to Assoka? He isn’t in the list either. Make up your mind, Mr. Georgia Woodlot Southern Avenger Militia Man of the Slaveholder Tradition.

    • ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 10:29 pm #

      Yeah sock why U no longer use that alias? FSCKn *SOCK*!!! Scardey-*CAT*! (sux 2 b u)…

  143. ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 10:19 pm #

    He stood in the storm – carved out in *STONE*

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Acj_zKWZs

    • ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 10:20 pm #

      Flood the socks? might be worth a *try*…

      • ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 10:31 pm #

        prolly not the best *REPOSE*… But who knows, maybe JHK wants us to rebel!!!

        • San Jose July 30, 2013 at 10:44 pm #

          JHK,

          Here’s another example of “truth divorced from reality.” My husband just returned from a family wedding in Michigan. His older brother and wife retired in January from their jobs as employees of the state of Michigan.

          They plan to spend their winters in Florida. During the visit they showed off their new camping rig–a giant “fifth wheel” that is towed by a new F250 Super Duty truck. The camper has GRANITE countertops, air-conditioning, a “fire-place,” and to top it off, a big-screen TV.

          What they do in Florida is beyond me. No one would ever want to see my sister-in-law in a swimsuit. (Shudder!)

          San Jose Mom

          • ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 10:56 pm #

            I find myself apologizing too much — but that story is a *TOTAL* apology!!! Sorry San Mom – it’s prolly *ALL MY FAULT*!!!

  144. Q. Shtik July 30, 2013 at 11:05 pm #

    The birth rate—the number of births per 1,000 women aged 15 to 44—declined 29 percent for blacks, – Ja’Soka

    …yet the black birth rate is 23.9% greater than the white birth rate. Also, black teenage birth rates are more than double that of whites and Hispanics almost triple.

    Births to black UNWED mothers are off the charts.

    Notice how Asoka cherry picks his data to create a rosy picture… an affront to the intelligence of readers here at CFN.

    White women are doing the procreating.

    The truth is ALL women are doing the procreating as they have since the beginning of time however, recently the number of non-white births in the US has exceeded white births for the first time.

    I can safely predict that having these less rosy facts pointed out, Asoka will now say that he is GLAD that non-white births exceed white births. This is his favorite ploy in pissing off Vlad.

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    • ZrCrypDiK July 30, 2013 at 11:32 pm #

      Gramps concerned about *niggah* births. You do *INTRIGUE* me, *SPELL-CHECKER*… So a flood of niggz oncoming?!? (haha U *racist*)

  145. Q. Shtik July 30, 2013 at 11:40 pm #

    Asoka, in your recently adopted persona as “janet” should we assume that all your previous markers still hold true?

    i.e.

    Are you still black?

    Did you have your tubes tied on Earth Day when you were 18 years old?

    Did you travel extensively in India and dance with the whirling dervishes?

    Do you STILL contain multitudes?

    Do you STILL find consistency to be foolish?

    Are you living near the Mexican border in case life in the US becomes too shitty that you can quickly escape?

    Did you build and live in an adobe structure?

    Do you prefer pretending to be a woman than pretending to be a man?

    Are you still a vegan or vegetarian and former fruitarian that eats one meal per day?

    etc?

    etc?

    • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 12:48 am #

      Ahaha!!! Q – you *GOT ME*! Smooth as “silk”/./ Hehe, did I spell?!? (and no, I didn’t poast for the past month – since 4th July)

      • Janos Skorenzy July 31, 2013 at 1:11 am #

        One time I went to Bunker Hill for Bunker Hill Day. Just as the ceremony was about to begin, two busloads of Black kids pulled up. They disembarked from the buses and proceeded to ignore the National Anthem and subsequnet ceremony. They didn’t even bother to climb the little hill. Instead, they and their Black Teachers focused all their energy on getting ice cream and sodas down on the street.

  146. ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 1:04 am #

    It might just be *ME* – but I think we *succeeded* in shutting down the socks tonite!!! And it might have *JUST* been me, but I think Q and prog had a *LIL* to do with it as well (tripp to ban!)!!!

  147. janet July 31, 2013 at 2:39 am #

    LOL!

    I must say I am learning a lot about this Asoka character. I may go back and read some more of his past posts.

    • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 5:32 am #

      Your pretending daze R over, sockie. We know who U R. Admit it, and play* with us!!! (or at least, keep your spams to less than 50%)…

      Scrolling and not seeing you/carol every 95% makes my day. I know you got all those mastah-debatah files, *both sides*, wishing to be released – but we’ve heard all that SH! B4. SRSLY – we have *HEARD* it all B4.

      The fact you and sockie shut the F* up gives me great pause (*credence*) it’s as if you’re almost *human*…

  148. BackRowHeckler July 31, 2013 at 6:21 am #

    Asoka-Janet-Carol et al … your output here is prodigious, immense! … unbelievable! … only a fool would write so much for free … you probably should move on to a place where you would be paid for your efforts!

    Just a suggestion.

    BRH

    • Nastarana July 31, 2013 at 7:23 am #

      They are being paid. They are a neo-con tag team.

      We see a lot of this on the gardening fora, from Monsatan’s paid stooges.

      • ozone July 31, 2013 at 7:38 am #

        Yes, I wonder how the ‘bennies’ are? What promises have been made?

        What happened was, Ja’Soka was gradually losing its’ mojo of garnering [at least a few] responses, so a heavy-hitter with a bit more writing acuity, style, and nastier aggressive streak was brought in to lay a bit of stick about and pretend to have ‘serious conversations’ with the Ja’Soka persona, thus clogging up even MORE bandwidth.

        Great ‘job’, you paid pricks.

        (The strangest thing here is that they probably enjoy their ‘work’. This is what we’ve come to… that such ‘work’ is probably easily available. After all, the techniques for these psy-ops was imported directly from E. German Stasi operatives.)

        • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 7:48 am #

          You *MUST* poast those music vids of yerself (srsly)!

      • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 7:43 am #

        HAHAHA!!! Mon-SATAN!!! hehe, GMO cult (Read:*CULT*)

  149. ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 6:23 am #

    It really *suxors* that there’s no way to link to individual poasts *NE-MOAR*, liek back in the *good ole daze*… I’d link janet responding to *self*, or carol responding to *self* (can we say *SOKER*)…

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  150. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 6:48 am #

    They disembarked from the buses and proceeded to ignore the National Anthem and subsequnet ceremony.

    HaHa! Unlike you though, I’m sure they can spell subsequent correctly. The appropriate thing for them to have do would have been to collectively squat down and defecate on the “sacred” hill, and then proceed to Washington’s and Jefferson’s graves to do the same. Now that’s a field trip.

  151. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 6:56 am #

    It really *suxors* that there’s no way to link to individual poasts *NE-MOAR*, liek back in the *good ole daze*… I’d link janet responding to *self*, or carol responding to *self* (can we say *SOKER*)…

    There is a way, you just don’t have the intellect to pull it off. Get back in your jumpy seat where you belong, you racist rapist. You add nothing to the conversation/discussion. I bet you’re sitting in your F-110 with your i-pad sucking back a six pack of Mike’s Hard Lemonade as you avail us with your incipient political fury, skid marks and all. Skid marks in the britches and F-110s go together like strawberries and vanilla icecream on a hot summer eve.

  152. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 7:00 am #

    an affront to the intelligence of readers here at CFN.

    Intelligence? Now that’s hyperbole.

  153. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 7:04 am #

    No one would ever want to see my sister-in-law in a swimsuit. (Shudder!)

    Don’t kid yourself, there are all kinds. For example, I’m sure ZrCrypDiK would find her attractive and would like to see her in her swimsuit. Hell, he’d probably like to see her in a thong.

    • Neon Vincent July 31, 2013 at 10:29 am #

      I know there are people who are enjoying the photos the New York Post ran of Sydney Leathers, Anthony Weiner’s virtual girlfriend, in a swimsuit. The photo Wonkette reprinted was very unflattering, but even then, there were commenters there who found her appealing, even if the motivation was “look at who Anthony Weiner is endangering his career and marriage over. WOOF!” I have to admit, she does have a pretty face and cleans up nicely.

      Unfortunately for those interested in more evidence that we live in what JHK himself called on the first page of comments a “trashy and meretricious culture,” I don’t have any of those photos at my blog. Instead, I have video of Laci Green of Discovery News, speaking of women with pretty faces who clean up nicely, describing the latest findings about sex addiction, along with a short discussion of whether Weiner is a sex addict–not that it matters. Men with the name Weiner shouldn’t be texting photos of their penis, especially if they want to be Mayor of New York. The jokes just write themselves.

      http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/2013/07/weiner-lives-down-to-his-name.html

    • ZrCrypDiK August 1, 2013 at 2:34 am #

      SRSLY? I think IX would like to jack off to her – but not *ME* (you douche) BTW, who is she, NE-waze…

      • ZrCrypDiK August 1, 2013 at 2:36 am #

        I get it, San jose mom!@! Yeah, her sister’s *BEEFY*!!!

  154. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 7:10 am #

    San Jose’s sister-in-law with her friend…..heading South where she belongs and will feel at home. Wake Up, America!!

    http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002588895/1937414007_fat_girls_pickup_truck_xlarge.jpeg

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  155. Nastarana July 31, 2013 at 7:26 am #

    The Real News Network is reporting that the Syrian Army has captured the city of Homs.

    Naturally, our govt. is on the wrong side. Maybe upscale Janet will be among the first to welcome a cannibal commando refugee family to her gated enclave.

  156. ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 7:37 am #

    Sock spammers!!! Do you have a *SOUL*? Just *ASKIN*…

    • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 7:49 am #

      No they *DON’T* – and they’ll never respond – douche. (wake the F* up dumb @$$)

  157. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 7:46 am #

    Naturally, our govt. is on the wrong side.

    The fact you buy into a notion of “sides” shows your prejudice, and the fact you play into the charade of blaming evil government shows your inability to get to the root. The government is the enforcement division of corporations, and it also serves as a foil and whipping boy for right-wing retards who fail to see the elephant in the room. Sides are created and supplied in order to create a 24/7 strategy of tension. Take a candle and burn both ends. Tails you win, heads you win. Speaking of souls, that’s soulless.

    • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 7:51 am #

      My reply will keep you at a *mere* 75% hit rate. *SUCK IT*!!!

      • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 8:02 am #

        Carol/Janet (SOKER) *CONFUSED* – they got a reply other than *THEMSELVES*. Sorry sockies. You will not own this page. *PERIOD*.

        • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 8:03 am #

          Leary’s tunin in/turnin *ON*!!!

  158. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 8:02 am #

    Fisk gets dangerously close to the answer as it relates to Syria with this latest piece.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/robert-fisk-by-taking-sides-within-sides-rifkind-risks-a-repeat-of-balkans-mistakes-in-syria-8708001.html

    But let’s be in no doubt why we want to arm the rebels. If the civil war in Syria is worthy of intervention, ours is defined by one major fact: we want to give more guns to the rebels because, for the moment, the Assad regime is winning. Our masters now tell us we must “balance” the forces – which is intriguing. It means we don’t really care to end the war. We just don’t want the rebels to lose it. So the war will go on. And sending more guns into Syria will maintain this bloody status quo.

    • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 8:05 am #

      WoW!!! How do you do those links! Quite mysterious – you @$$hat.

  159. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 8:05 am #

    They are being paid. They are a neo-con tag team.

    Wow. And you claim to be able to think critically. As well-read as you obviously are, you haven’t learned to think critically at all. Lord Shang and Mao Zedong were right, too much reading can be harmful, and you’re living proof.

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    • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 8:06 am #

      And there U R again – mysterious@@@

    • Nastarana July 31, 2013 at 2:14 pm #

      What is it with you and the Chairman? I suppose I should not be surprised to see that one of the 20thC worst serial murderers attracts your attention.

      (The ‘Carol’ entity reveals herself for what she is, another serial killer groupie, an Alyssa Rosenbaum wannabe.)

      I say to you directly, so you can’t pretend you didn’t see it: I think you are incapable of work, and the very idea of the re-enchantment of daily life and the world made by hand scares you right out of your mind. There is something so pathetically eager-beaverish about your posts here, the excessive attention to duty of an incompetent who has never not been fired from a job, which convinces me you must not be just another lonely keyboard tapper.

      Notice how the ‘Janet’ entity is holding back a little now? You had best read the writing on the wall if you want to keep this gig.

  160. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 8:22 am #

    Hey ZrCrypDiK, you nutjob, maybe you can head on over to the previous thread and tell the “statistics professor” there’s a new thread. I nearly pissed myself when I saw this. And this guy has a PhD? No wonder the collapse is coming any day now.

    http://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/requiem-for-detroit/comment-page-8/#comment-154671

    • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 8:39 pm #

      I have no idea WTF you babblin’ Yeah, that’s the *DETROIT* link I finally poasted on, twice, Sunday (after a months’ HIATUS).

      You not impressed with my *METHANE* spam? O – I think I get it *KNOW* – you think I am *E*. I do feel for that poor soul – but alas, even *THOUGH* he sounds liek me – he is not *ME*. He spammed irony (no poasts for 3 days, yet he wants regulation akin to *4-5 poasts a day*)…

      You silly *SOCK*!!! Keep on keepin’ on, spammer.

      • ZrCrypDiK August 1, 2013 at 2:39 am #

        *MENTAL NOTE*

  161. Arn Varnold July 31, 2013 at 8:37 am #

    “It would at least signal a rapprochement of truth with reality.”

    Dream time; what a wonderful picture.
    But that very phrasing of truth with reality dashes any hope of dream time, which is exactly your point; lost over these many posts.
    We’re not even close to a rapprochement, IMO, any time soon.
    We’re still in the decline mode and descending quickly into the abyss.
    When the bottom point is reached; only then will it be possible for action. Action is the end of words and the beginning of change, IMO.

    • ozone July 31, 2013 at 8:55 am #

      The very fact that the ‘intelligence network’ can hire permanent poo-flingers should be an indicator that the pedal is still hard against the metal, and will continue to be so until the wheels fall off. (Sharp elbows and propaganda for now. Later on… not so sweet and easy.)

      I think lots of pain is going to be doled out before anyone has any intention of learning anything. Is that ‘human nature’, or have we been carefully trained not to see further than upcoming mealtimes or the next wondrous purchase?

      • Nastarana July 31, 2013 at 9:19 am #

        There is still a lot of money riding on us not seeing farther than the next mealtime or purchase.

        Then there are the loudmouths like ‘Carol’ who, being incapable of work themselves, hate the whole idea of the re-enchantment of daily life, and the wannabe elite, like ‘Janet’ whose entire bogus prosperity depends on continued debt-fueled consumption by (formerly) working class saps.

        Not so sweet and easy indeed. Which means, the more we can get built now in the way of sustainable, resilient, under the radar localized systems of providing for ourselves and our neighbors, the harder they will be to tear down. You cannot hope to oppose tanks, bombs and automatic weapons, but you can, just maybe, make the costs of their use higher than the rulers can easily afford.

        Don’t give up on your two acres yet. You might enjoy meeting the nice and capable folks at some of the gardening for a.

        http://www.idigmygarden.com

  162. Nastarana July 31, 2013 at 9:07 am #

    Personal attack from the Carol/Janet, not that elegant and refined ‘Janet’ would ever stoop so low, duo means that one must be doing or thinking something which the aristocracy finds inconvenient. Far better to follow the example of the ‘Janet’ half, and genuflect at the altar of Famous and Important Academic Celebrities without putting oneself to the trouble of reading and understanding their works, not even those intended for a popular audience.

    What these shills really can’t stand is anyone whom they consider to be inferior to their important selves presuming to a have an inner life divorced from commercialized so-called “popular”, actually imposed from above, culture, and practicing any of the arts of self reliance.

    • ozone July 31, 2013 at 9:30 am #

      …For that comment, you will soon receive a strange and twisted Orwellian/Rovian amalgam of a retort/reply.

      (It’s generally the old wheeze, “I know you are, but what am I?” in a new coat of paint.)

      • Nastarana July 31, 2013 at 12:06 pm #

        Suitable for framing for my bathroom wall?

  163. ozone July 31, 2013 at 9:08 am #

    Just for curiosity’s sake:
    Why would our resident sharp-stick-in-the-eye be monitoring last weeks comment thread just to take a poke at E.?

    Fraud (with [very] malicious intent).

    …And I suppose they’re “just having a giggle”, not trying to elbow out and ostracize. (Let’s be clear though. There will never be a commonality to edge him out; only a pretended one; a ‘clear majority’ of two.)

    You ‘people’ are lower than whale shit at the bottom of the Marianas Trench.
    When you sleep, do you dream of someday becoming a real person? Or would that be one of your nightmares?

  164. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 9:18 am #

    I think lots of pain is going to be doled out before anyone has any intention of learning anything.

    Ummmm…hello! Lots of pain has been doled out since before the beginning of history. Life is many things, and one of those things is pain, like it or not. Lars von Trier handles this nicely in his excellent movie, Antichrist. Pain is a central theme; both physical and psychological pain and man’s nature, and nature’s nature and man’s relationship with nature.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T65lNqV48dU

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  165. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 9:23 am #

    is anyone whom they consider to be inferior to their important selves presuming to a have an inner life divorced from commercialized so-called “popular”,

    Ha! Don’t pretend your prejudicial bigotry, so transparently on display here, is somehow divorced from popular commercialization. It’s the height of commercialization.

  166. alpha mail July 31, 2013 at 9:42 am #

    Janos Skorenzy sez:
    “One time I went to Bunker Hill for Bunker Hill Day. Just as the ceremony was about to begin, two busloads of Black kids pulled up. They disembarked from the buses and proceeded to ignore the National Anthem and subsequnet ceremony. They didn’t even bother to climb the little hill. Instead, they and their Black Teachers focused all their energy on getting ice cream and sodas down on the street”

    Priceless! Someone on this thread once mentioned a black parent questioning a white teacher about the fifth grade field trip to the National Mall. The black mom sez something like, “She don’t need no mo god dam clothes! Ya’ll don’t need to be spendin mah money goin to no “national mall!”. Tee hee. 😀

  167. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 10:24 am #

    Hey, look, Poppy’s shaved his dome. Doesn’t look half bad, but seriously, what self-respecting, caring parent would allow their child to sit on the lap of a monster like this? Ewwwww…..

    http://img.wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/HW-and-toddler.png

    I mean, look at Poppy’s expression. He hasn’t felt that good in years, and yet the media focuses on Weiner’s sexting with another consenting adult.

  168. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 11:07 am #

    along with a short discussion of whether Weiner is a sex addict–not that it matters. Men with the name Weiner shouldn’t be texting photos of their penis, especially if they want to be Mayor of New York.

    Neon, to tell you the truth, I knew nothing of the Weiner spectacle until it was mentioned here, and even then, I’ve looked into it no further. Before anyone mentioned that name here, I didn’t even know the guy with the funny name existed….that’s how out of the mainstream I am. And let me tell you, the more you distance yourself from the mainstream, the more clearly and objectively you can see it for what it is. People who immerse themselves in it can’t see the forest for the trees.

  169. Q. Shtik July 31, 2013 at 11:16 am #

    I’m sure they can spell subsequent correctly.

    Highly unlikely……nor do they even know what subsequent means. Run a test on Rachel Jeantel.

    The appropriate thing for them to have do would have been to collectively squat down

    If you want to have this^ sentence read properly delete the first “have.” As a wannabe writer, “Carol,” you do a lousy job of proofreading.

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  170. mike schilling July 31, 2013 at 11:20 am #

    I just returned from a lengthy “happy motoring” trip through the Rocky Mountain region to visit friends, family and enjoy outdoor recreation. But I also observed an intensive, visible display of “dreamtime” resources gobbling: the huge traffic of coal trains running the network of rails of eastern Wyoming and western Nebraska. It had a quality of industrial-sized desperation. Loaded trains heading east, one after another in the Platte River Valley passing empty trains, one after another, heading back to the coal fields of Wyoming and Montana for more of the untold millions of tons of those states to be burned up in the power plants dotting the nation.

  171. TeeCee July 31, 2013 at 11:28 am #

    Jim must have finally attracted the attention of the disruptors.

    The noise we see above is a technique used to discourage discussion of topics that -someone- wants shut down.

    Perhaps Jim or an assistant can try to remove irrelevant comments, and block disruptive users.

    I suspect Jim is pretty hands off here, and this will remain the wild west.

    Don’t let the greedheads win!

  172. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 11:32 am #

    Found it and linked to it below. I’m guessing janet is also Pucker, is that correct janet? If so, who else are you? Q Schmuck? I’ve always suspected you were. Still, I don’t hate you. I think it’s a neat idea. Be as many people as you wish. I’ll just continue to knock all of them down like bowling pins.

    http://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/american-anxiety/comment-page-3/#comment-153501

  173. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 11:38 am #

    If you want to have this^ sentence read properly delete the first “have.” As a wannabe writer, “Carol,” you do a lousy job of proofreading.

    It’s advisable if it’s just a single word in quotes to leave the comma outside of the quotes. Please proofread before providing proofreading advice next time.

    As far as “wannabe” is concerned, it takes one to know one. I’m sure in retaliation you’ll post another excerpt of your somnolent memoir.

    • Q. Shtik July 31, 2013 at 11:51 am #

      It’s advisable if it’s just a single word in quotes to leave the comma outside of the quotes.

      Periods and commas always go inside quotation marks.

      http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

      • Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 12:04 pm #

        No, they don’t, it’s a stylistic choice. Pointing to a link that calls itself grammar doesn’t make it so. I once put any punctuation marks inside quotes, regardless, but now I only do it when it’s a phrase or sentence being quoted, not when it’s a single word. Not to mention, it also looks more aesthetically pleasing to keep it outside the quotes when it’s a single word, but then, since when were you ever interested in something looking good?

        • Q. Shtik July 31, 2013 at 2:25 pm #

          Pointing to a link that calls itself grammar doesn’t make it so.

          “Carol” is an authority unto herself.

          • Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 2:31 pm #

            What does your “authoritative” source say about inappropriate use of, and overuse of, the quote function? If you don’t know, perhaps you should research it because you’re guilty of both charges.

    • Q. Shtik July 31, 2013 at 2:37 pm #

      It’s advisable if it’s just a single word in quotes to leave the comma outside of the quotes.

      Are you quoting from an authority in the field or is it something you just made up?

      No response necessary, the question is rhetorical.

      BTW, in the phrase leave the comma outside of the quotes the word “of” is unnecessary and can be eliminated.

  174. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 11:44 am #

    Highly unlikely……nor do they even know what subsequent means.

    Why would that be, in your estimation? Because they’re black? Racist much? Of course you do. Bunker Hill is irrelevant. The Dreamtime is over. It’s time to wake up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ2yXWi0ppw

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  175. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 12:00 pm #

    The noise we see above is a technique used to discourage discussion of topics that -someone- wants shut down.

    Agreed. People do not want to read, or partake in an honest discussion of Obamacare. Speaking of healthcare, Morgan Spurlock, aka Inside Man for CNN, recently did a program on the cost of growing old and dying. It was excellent. Here’s a sneak peak. I like this guy. He’s a male who’s not afraid to cry. He’s in touch with his feelings.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgb2pwRkddQ

  176. Q. Shtik July 31, 2013 at 1:00 pm #

    Why would that be, in your estimation? Because they’re black?

    Sadly, yes.

    David Foster Wallace, among his many accomplishments, did a great service to any teacher whose curriculum includes significant amounts of written English. In his essay, “Authority and American Usage”,* he describes the difficulty he had in teaching “Standard Written English” (SWE) to students raised in other dialects of English, especially “Standard Black English” (SBE). The essay includes a version of the spiel he gives to these students, excerpted briefly here:

    In class… you will have to master and write Standard Written English, which we might just as well call “Standard White English” because it was developed by white people and is used by white people, especially educated, powerful white people. … In this country, SWE is perceived as the dialect of education and intelligence and power and prestige, and anybody of any race, ethnicity, religion, or gender who wants to succeed in American culture has got to be able to use SWE. This is just How It Is.

    • Q. Shtik July 31, 2013 at 1:07 pm #

      Here is the link from which the above was excerpted. It’s not excessively long. I highly recommend you and others read it.

      http://miles.oppidi.net/diss/?p=146

    • Janos Skorenzy July 31, 2013 at 2:02 pm #

      Well that’s deal breaker for many Blacks right there. I once say a 60 minutes segment about a Black guy teaching chess to young Black kids. Taking the White side was a huge issue for many of them. It’s simply impossible to exaggerate the animus of popular Black culture towards Whites. Look at the ridiculous names they make up so they don’t have our names.

      And as in any hatred of this kind, the more we give the worse it will get. By acting as we are guilty, we just cement the idea in their minds that we are guilty and owe them everything. Of course at a deep level they may “know” that this isn’t true, and that just makes them hate us even more. People always hate those whom they have wronged.

      In short, Blacks are poor thinkers and lovers, but very good haters. We would be advised to separate ourselves form them by any means necessary.

  177. janet July 31, 2013 at 1:18 pm #

    Complainer said: “The noise we see above is a technique used to discourage discussion of topics that -someone- wants shut down.”

    Carol said: “Agreed.”

    Carol, these guys who pop in to make off-topic posts to complain about what others are doing or saying are the ones who are discouraging discussion of topics.

    They are so preoccupied with their ideas about who is who that they have nothing substantial to contribute to what is what or how or why.

    According to these bozos I am Asoka, Adequatio, Carol, Nichole, Kamarah, K-Dog, ozone, BRH, Q, E, etc.

    As anti dod said (and I may be anti dod, too), all the conversation appearing on CFN is just me talking to myself … and getting paid for it!

    It’s hilarious to read what supposedly intelligent people are capable of believing.

  178. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 1:22 pm #

    Carol, these guys who pop in to make off-topic posts to complain about what others are doing or saying are the ones who are discouraging discussion of topics.

    Agreed…..and thanks for the link. I don’t really care who anybody is or isn’t, it’s the ideas, and discussion of them, that matters, don’t you agree?

  179. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 1:24 pm #

    According to these bozos I am Asoka, Adequatio, Carol, Nichole, Kamarah, K-Dog, ozone, BRH, Q, E, etc.

    Ha!! I have noticed progress4banning hasn’t included adequatio in his list. Why do you think that is? I liked adequatio and miss him/her. I wish he/she would come back.

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    • Q. Shtik July 31, 2013 at 2:02 pm #

      I liked adequatio and miss him/her. I wish he/she would come back.

      ^These sentences demonstrate something fundamental about the personas of “Carol” and Asoka/et al. Namely, the fear that a label will somehow rob them of credibility. In this instance we are talking about the most elemental of labels, gender. The first words from the baby doctor’s mouth are “It’s a girl” or It’s a boy” but our two entities find these labels too restrictive.

  180. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 1:34 pm #

    Suitable for framing for my bathroom wall?

    I’m betting the following is on more than a few bathroom walls:

    For a good time call Nastarana @867-5301.

    Seriously though, I was certain you used an outhouse. I’m surprised to learn you have a bathroom.

    • Nastarana July 31, 2013 at 2:33 pm #

      Snobbery rears its ugly head. I do actually have a bathroom, and, guess what, I pay for it myself; I am not living on he charity of Uncle So and So who made his pile in, let me guess, was it the garment trade, or perhaps commodity speculations?

      No sex work here, too plain, too bad tempered, too outspoken.

      I have nothing against the ladies who make their living n the oldest profession. It is one of the most dangerous jobs on earth. A few smart ladies manage to keep their earnings and retire to live well. Good for them.

  181. janet July 31, 2013 at 1:48 pm #

    Steve Cohen is in hot water. Multi-billionaire hedge-fund owner who pocketed money through insider trading. He bought off SEC to make prosecution unlikely. He thought he was home free, until Obama came along.

    Obama has put someone in charge of SEC, Mary Jo White, who is not a pushover. She is prosecuting Cohen for failure to supervise his hedge fund managers. Doesn’t sound like a serious charge. It’s not like he’s going to jail. But it can lead to Cohen being barred from doing business on Wall Street. Ouch! There are many ways to go after crooks when their is political will. Just like they got Capone for IRS violations, not murder.

    Obama is bringing law and order to Wall Street and billionaires are not immune.

    • Q. Shtik July 31, 2013 at 2:09 pm #

      when their is political will.

      “their”… hahaha

      Mary Jo White may be great in her role at SEC but she still looks like a circus roustabout to me…not that there’s anything wrong with that.

      • Nastarana July 31, 2013 at 2:23 pm #

        That could be useful in dealing with the sort of MOTUs who naturally assume that plain=stupid.

  182. janet July 31, 2013 at 1:49 pm #

    ^There are many ways to go after crooks … when there is political will.

  183. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 2:09 pm #

    The first words from the baby doctor’s mouth are “It’s a girl” or It’s a boy”

    This is yet another example of how out-of-touch you are. The majority of couples these days opt to know the gender of their precious ones with the first or second ultrasound thus precluding a practically automated announcement from the doctor before he/she says “next”.

  184. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 2:18 pm #

    janet : He bought off SEC to make prosecution unlikely.

    Q Schmuck: Mary Jo White may be great in her role at SEC but she….

    Interesting. Two different posters coincidentally leave out the crucial “the” before SEC and instead go with the British version where the “the” is absent before general nouns representing establishments. For example, Brits are noted for saying something to the effect of “I went to hospital” rather than “I went to the hospital.” Now, who would be British and posting as both janet and Q Schmuck? I can think of only one person. It’s all good either way. I like it. It sure beast the hell out of the otherwise boring shit that’s offered up at places like NBL.

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    • Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 2:22 pm #

      ^beats

    • janet July 31, 2013 at 2:26 pm #

      “Interesting. Two different posters …”

      Two? I made the error twice because I am Q. Don’t you know Q. is my creation, one of my many identities? I created Q. (who used to be a pool hall lounge-about character) to have a sparring partner on CFN. LOL!

      • Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 2:29 pm #

        It’s cool either way.

  185. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 2:26 pm #

    David Foster Wallace, among his many accomplishments,

    He was a pompous, selfish, arrogant, over-rated ass……like most writers, wannabe or “accomplished.”

  186. janet July 31, 2013 at 2:38 pm #

    CORRECTION:

    David Foster Wallace was a pompous, selfish, arrogant, over-rated ass, verbose and in severe need of an editor.

  187. janet July 31, 2013 at 2:45 pm #

    It sure beast the hell out of the otherwise boring shit that’s offered up at places like NBL.

    I know. NBL is weird. It’s like NBLers think Nature is doing stuff to us as if there is us and there is Nature, a dualism. Nature’R’Us, but that eliminates any sense of Sturm und Drang the CFN drama queens are addicted to.

  188. janet July 31, 2013 at 2:54 pm #

    San Francisco is thinking of imitating North Dakota in creating its own bank. Banking is profitable. By being the bank owner San Francisco will will able to lower taxes and pay for services instead of going into debt like other cities have. More states should imitate North Dakota, which has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the USA.

    • Q. Shtik July 31, 2013 at 3:06 pm #

      San Francisco will will able to lower taxes – Asoka

      Interesting error. Do you have an attention problem?

  189. janet July 31, 2013 at 2:59 pm #

    Nastarana, are you Indian? Do you speak Hindi? Cool!

    motu —n. derogatory (Hinglish) a fat man or boy.

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    • Nastarana July 31, 2013 at 3:34 pm #

      No,
      MOTU is Masters Of The Universe, ie, the likes of Jaimie DImon.

  190. Q. Shtik July 31, 2013 at 3:01 pm #

    Here’s a sneak peak.

    “Carol” screws up again. It’s peek.

  191. janet July 31, 2013 at 3:09 pm #

    TPTB are uniting the American people!

    Democrats, Republicans and Libertarians, conservatives and liberals, hawks and doves unite to show their opposition to U.S. intervention in the Syrian civil war in a nonpartisan rally at the Oklahoma Capitol in Oklahoma City.

    Yes… Oklahoma City!

  192. TeeCee July 31, 2013 at 3:09 pm #

    Is anyone here discussing this week’s posting by Jim?

    I remember when the comments here were mostly related to it, but it seems like the continuation of a pie fight is going on.

    Oh well. Better luck next week.

    WRT this weeks column:

    I’ve been waiting for this whole rotten house of cards to come toppling down ever since The Long Emergency came out.

    Jim thinks there will be signs of change in a few months. I can only hope so.

    We can’t build something better until the wreckage of the current mess is hauled away.

  193. janet July 31, 2013 at 3:10 pm #

    Q. this proves I am not Asoka. Asoka didn’t make errors like “their” and “there” or “will will”

  194. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 3:11 pm #

    I know. NBL is weird. It’s like NBLers think Nature is doing stuff to us as if there is us and there is Nature, a dualism. Nature’R’Us, but that eliminates any sense of Sturm und Drang the CFN drama queens are addicted to.

    I couldn’t have said it better myself. I try to read the comments there, but I just can’t do it. I either fall asleep or feel nauseous, so I rarely peak in anymore.

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  195. janet July 31, 2013 at 3:12 pm #

    TeeCee said: “I’ve been waiting for this whole rotten house of cards to come toppling down ever since The Long Emergency came out.”

    I’ve been waiting since the Club of Rome report came out in the 1970s. Hope you are enjoying the wait as much as I have.

    Janet

  196. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 3:13 pm #

    Is anyone here discussing this week’s posting by Jim?

    I’m game. Where do you want to start?

    • BleatToTheBeat July 31, 2013 at 3:21 pm #

      How about GOLD?

      Looks like a whole buncha’ people are about to get schtupped on their gold contracts.

      Look, we have no bananas. But we’ll give ya some pictures of The Queen. OK?

      Let’s see how polite they will be this time.

      JP Morgan?

      No one thought that Lehman Brothers or the Arthur Anderson firm was gonna go away either.

  197. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 3:17 pm #

    I’ve been waiting since the Club of Rome report came out in the 1970s. Hope you are enjoying the wait as much as I have.

    A lot has changed in the past forty or more years, hasn’t it? I bet you didn’t shave your pussy back then like you do now. The wide bush was in. THOSE WERE THE DAYS! When you could go all WOOLLY MAMMOTH. Now, via peer pressure, you’re coerced to go all prepubescent. If you wait long enough, the wide bush will come back in style, especially if this shit finally does collapse and the world made by hand manifests.

  198. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 3:20 pm #

    “Carol” screws up again. It’s peek.

    “Shit,” “Q” “Schmuck” “got” “me” “again.” “He”/”she” “is” “good,” “isn’t” “it?”

  199. BleatToTheBeat July 31, 2013 at 3:23 pm #

    Pathetic.

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  200. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 3:32 pm #

    How about GOLD?

    Okay, that’s a good start. I don’t own any, nor do I own any gold stocks. I’ve never bought into that ruse. Those who did are going to be taken to the cleaners, just as those who are invested in the stock market who aren’t Plutocrats will be. If you’re not a Plutocrat, invest your money in people, and if you can’t get yourself to do that, then invest it in booze and drugs, but please, anything but gold and stocks, because if you invest it in gold and stocks, you’re handing it to the Plutocrats to build bombs that will be dropped on your head and the heads of everyone you know and love.

  201. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 3:35 pm #

    I do actually have a bathroom, and, guess what, I pay for it myself

    That is so cool! I can’t believe you have a coin-operated bathroom just like they do in many parts of Europe. You’re so Cosmopolitan; I apologize for misjudging you.

    • Nastarana July 31, 2013 at 4:28 pm #

      I conclude that the comments you did not address or answer are, indeed, true.

      You do hate work, and

      You are being supported by complaisant relatives.

      Nor have you or the ‘Janet’ entity ever denied being paid to post. You have both ridiculed and scoffed the idea, but not denied.

  202. janet July 31, 2013 at 3:35 pm #

    BleatToTheBeat said: “How about GOLD? Looks like a whole buncha’ people are about to get schtupped on their gold contracts.”

    There is something obscene about using schtupped in the same sentence with precious metal contracts. The two don’t mix.

    schtupped: carnal knowledge, coition, coitus, sex act, sexual congress, sexual intercourse, sexual relation, copulation, intercourse, relation, congress – the act of sexual … No! Not on the gold contracts!

  203. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 3:41 pm #

    Notice how the ‘Janet’ entity is holding back a little now? You had best read the writing on the wall if you want to keep this gig.

    More threats. Like ozone. Care to elaborate on what you mean by this?

    • Nastarana July 31, 2013 at 7:09 pm #

      Like maybe she does not want to be too close when you flame out. You never do know when enough is enough, do you?

  204. janet July 31, 2013 at 3:42 pm #

    Carol said: “I bet you didn’t shave your pussy back then like you do now.”

    I didn’t shave it then and don’t shave it now. I prefer natural. That goes for legs and underarms, too. How many hours do you spend shaving your legs? Tweezing your brows? Rubbing zit cream into that persistent pimple that just won’t go away? Women spend 72 days shaving their legs over the course of a lifetime, meaning approximately 1,728 hours. What’s more, shaving also ranked as women’s most hated beauty ritual, with 35 percent of women polled saying they loathed shaving their legs more than anything else.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paloma-goni/i-dont-shave_b_3568790.html

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  205. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 3:45 pm #

    That goes for legs and underarms, too.

    You too? That’s me. I abhor shaving. In fact, so much so, I don’t even shave my facial hair to the point I have a beard and mustache. Freedom’s just another word for never having to shave.

  206. janet July 31, 2013 at 3:49 pm #

    Nastarana said: “No, MOTU is Masters Of The Universe, ie, the likes of Jaimie DImon.”

    My bad. Thanks for the clarification. I make mistakes and learn every day!

  207. janet July 31, 2013 at 3:56 pm #

    Carol said: “I don’t even shave my facial hair to the point I have a beard and mustache.”

    Have you noticed how CFN is like Rush Limbaugh, the entertainer?

    Rush is not informing (he admits as much: “Mar 2, 2009 – RUSH: Okay, so I am an entertainer”). Rush is entertaining.

    CFN is a lot like that. Mondays. Cool metaphors. A little scare about the coming collapse. A thrill thinking about how bad things will be… then wait until next Monday. CFN is great entertainment as long as you don’t take it seriously… you know, like the laws of physics or something. It’s just beautiful prose, for over a decade now.

    Collapse, collapse, I love thee so… wherefore art thou?

  208. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 4:04 pm #

    Collapse, collapse, I love thee so… wherefore art thou?

    Yes, it’s like religion….that ‘ol time religion, and like in the old days, after mass there would be a picnic and a lynching or two. It was all part of the festivities.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqoJLpfr2ao

  209. janet July 31, 2013 at 4:17 pm #

    Message for Rhino:

    Snowden is still at large and not in custody of the USA.

    MOSCOW The father of National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden said on Russian television that he is grateful to the Kremlin for protecting his son.

    This is not what the authoritarian Rhino thought would be the outcome.

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  210. janet July 31, 2013 at 4:17 pm #

    TPTB MESSED WITH THE WRONG STUDENT

    SAN DIEGO — A 25-year old college student has reached a $4.1 million settlement with the federal government after he was abandoned in a windowless Drug Enforcement Administration cell for more than four days without food or water, his attorneys said Tuesday.

    The DEA introduced national detention standards as a result of the ordeal involving Daniel Chong, including daily inspections and a requirement for cameras in cells, said Julia Yoo, one of his lawyers.

  211. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 4:21 pm #

    A 25-year old college student has reached a $4.1 million settlement

    I hope he takes my investment advice and invests that handsome sum in people or booze and drugs as opposed to gold and stocks.

    • Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 4:23 pm #

      ^Legal drugs, of course, like marijuana in Washington and Colorado…and hopefully the entire U.S. and world before too long.

  212. janet July 31, 2013 at 4:25 pm #

    What kind of booze and drugs do you buy?

    I’m a teetotaler and don’t use drugs, not even legally prescribed pharmaceuticals. TPTB aren’t making any money with me.

  213. BleatToTheBeat July 31, 2013 at 5:17 pm #

    I should have quit you
    A long time ago

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtrCnUu43Cc

  214. janet July 31, 2013 at 5:45 pm #

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqbXOO3OiOs

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  215. Q. Shtik July 31, 2013 at 5:59 pm #

    ie, the likes of Jaimie DImon – Nastarana

    It’s Jamie and the second letter of his last name is lower case.

    • Q. Shtik July 31, 2013 at 7:13 pm #

      Read How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie and learn the importance of getting people’s names right; remembering people’s names is key.

      • Nastarana July 31, 2013 at 10:09 pm #

        Fortunately, I have no interest in either winning friends or influencing people. UnAmerican, I know, not to be sociable.

        • anti dod July 31, 2013 at 10:33 pm #

          And ‘Free Y’rself from Positive Thinking’ as well!

  216. K-Dog July 31, 2013 at 6:00 pm #

    All I’m trying to do is post a link to my website so you can find what Snowden has been up doing but it took five full minutes for this page to load.

    My connection has ssssssllllllloooooooowwwwweeeddd way down. I don’t know why. Too bad because if you follow my link a lot of strange happenings around here get explained. – K-Dog

    • BleatToTheBeat July 31, 2013 at 8:23 pm #

      A Possible Explanation

      If you are allowing all of your programs to update in the background, this produces a lot of drag on your system resources.

      If your computer has a single core processor and you are running an anti-virus program continuously, from time to time, you will experience some serious drags in processing power.

      Even with newer, multi-core processors, your system can be overwhelmed by multiple threads of executing programs.

      You may want to examine the number of programs that are updating themselves automatically and opt to update some of them manually.

      This does take a certain amount of discipline.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO2BIf12xnQ

  217. bob July 31, 2013 at 6:04 pm #

    There is the truth as the Chinese wisdom states if you stay on the same path you will get where you are going. We are on the the downward spiralling staircase to hell of collapse. People don’t want to hear this ,who could blame them . They do want to hear a more promising message ,and that is not given except by the pundits who are apologists for the political economic systems that got us on the downward spiral in the first place.We need a new or in reality the most fundamental of truths ie. to have a system that can achieve sustainable dynamic balance. Your whole conditioning has been in duality politically the right vs. left economically have vs. have nots even in religion we have our God vs. the the other aka Devil. Indeed a sad situation unless we realize we can align with reality.

  218. ozone July 31, 2013 at 6:32 pm #

    “…We’re witnessing the implosion of the American hive mind.

    This is what comes of divorcing truth from reality, and that process is exactly what you get in the effort to replace authentic economic activity with accounting fraud and propaganda…” -JHK

    As a frantic and panicked knock-on effect of this is a desperate attempt to prop up the status quo by any and all means.

    If the status quo should dissolve, there are a large number of fools who have no useful skills to ply in a world of reality. This doesn’t bode well for them. Example: What kind of ‘work’ do we find for the carol-ja’soka tag team? We couldn’t use them in leadership positions of any kind, because they’re too invested in spite and dreams of power over those they feel inferior. Defense? They probably didn’t do so well on the range or in basic, which is probably why they ended up in positions of status quo [useless fucking waste] boosterism. (I hardly find that even close to a ‘skill’, I don’t know ’bout you.) Manual labor? Faaaar beneath their dignity, I’m certain. Accounting? Nah, they’d be wanting to oversee the ‘creation’ of those numbers, not carefully recording them.

    See where I’m going here? A big bunch of what was formerly known as ‘productive activity/work’ is going to be unwanted, irrelevant and a distinct waste of time and energy.

    Can you imagine that the descriptor of ‘propaganda agent’ as a job title in a decentralized world where practical ideas, food and ammunition are the main currencies would be a positive? I really can’t. The only thing it might get you is shunned.

    There’s desperation in the air. Those invested heavily in the current M.I.C. paradigm see the weight of numbers going against them as the goodies get sparser and those in charge get more parsimonious. Thus the flurry of lies, disinformation, division, distraction and stunning truckloads of fraud. These are the only tools left in the toolbox, aside from armaments in the streets. Those come out AFTER all trust has finally been lost.

    We’re witnessing the final blizzard of bullshit before the hammer comes down.

    • BleatToTheBeat July 31, 2013 at 8:30 pm #

      OCCUPATION: Foole

  219. janet July 31, 2013 at 6:49 pm #

    ozone said: “We’re witnessing the final blizzard of bullshit before the hammer comes down.”

    I will go so far to predict that the recent national mood of wishful fantasy is running out of gas and that a more fatalistic view of our manifold predicaments will take its place in a few months.

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  220. janet July 31, 2013 at 6:51 pm #

    K-Dog said: “if you follow my link a lot of strange happenings around here get explained.”

    I will go so far to predict that the recent national mood of wishful fantasy is running out of gas and that a more fatalistic view of our manifold predicaments will take its place in a few months.

  221. janet July 31, 2013 at 6:52 pm #

    Bob said: “We are on the the downward spiralling staircase to hell of collapse.”

    I will go so far to predict that the recent national mood of wishful fantasy is running out of gas and that a more fatalistic view of our manifold predicaments will take its place in a few months.

    Janet (to the chattering parrots)

    • Q. Shtik July 31, 2013 at 8:50 pm #

      I will go so far to predict that…

      I will go so far [as] to predict that

  222. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 6:59 pm #

    ie, the likes of Jaimie DImon – Nastarana

    It’s Jamie and the second letter of his last name is lower case.

    That’s just Nastarana being antisemitic again. She and I don’t share the same views about antisemitism. Her spelling of Jamie was just her channeling Jesse Jackson.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNz5XnvZHhk

    • Nastarana July 31, 2013 at 10:13 pm #

      And here I was thinking Dimon is a Scotsman!

  223. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 7:02 pm #

    janet, thank you for posting that Nina Simone Strange Fruit video. It was touching and moving. Let me share this one from Dinah Washington. It reminds me of Nastarana, and since a rose is mentioned in it, I believe it’s fitting….and touching and moving.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW-GMG6xhtY

  224. anti dod July 31, 2013 at 7:03 pm #

    What are the best ‘prepper’ sites?
    And thanks to all of you for hanging in here, despite ‘entity’ running SO MUCH interference.

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    • ozone July 31, 2013 at 7:32 pm #

      Simply google “prepper sites” (whilst thou still canst ;)).
      Sift and glean from there to those sites where they look like they might have half a clue as to what they’re doing, and they’ll recommend others. Onward and outward…

      (You WILL, of course, be tracked and quite likely flagged for conducting such a search, but, what the hell… join the club of hundreds of thousands! 575,000 results for “prepper sites”.)

      • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 8:31 pm #
  225. janet July 31, 2013 at 7:55 pm #

    anti dod, do not listen to ozone. He is not helping you to find what you are asking for: not 575,000 sites, but 50 of the BEST prepper sites.

    http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-preparedness/rise-of-the-preppers-50-of-the-best-prepper-websites-and-blogs-on-the-internet_02012013

    If you want the BEST information, you should ask me not ozone.

    • pro dod July 31, 2013 at 8:07 pm #

      janet is correct anti dod and don’t worry about us flagging you. You were flagged long ago. We know all we need to know about you. You’ve been processed and categorized so you can breath easy and visit whatever site you like without fear. Your fate is already baked in the cake as they say.

    • pro dod July 31, 2013 at 8:15 pm #

      I forgot to add, out of the top 50 sites janet provided we run 49 of them. The holdout is run by a former employee who does it for kicks to pass the time in retirement.

  226. ozone July 31, 2013 at 8:03 pm #

    “I will go so far to predict that the recent national mood of wishful fantasy is running out of gas and that a more fatalistic view of our manifold predicaments will take its place in a few months.” -JHK

    Nice to see that Ja’soka has finally decided to pretend to understand that there might actually be a consensus ’round these parts on the approach of Nemesis.

    Oh! We aren’t presenting contrary opinions to JHK? Well that’s just too unfortunate. We wouldn’t want Ja’soka’s ‘job’ to be endangered; it’s all it has left if it desires to be fed, housed and clothed by its’ masters. “Sit!” (at the keyboard); good dog; here’s your cookie.

    • pro dod July 31, 2013 at 8:11 pm #

      Like anti dod you’ve also been flagged but we don’t know how to process or categorize you because none of us can figure out what the hell you’re saying or talking about. We’ve put some of our brightest code breakers on your case and after days and weeks even, they throw up their hands in frustration and walk out. We’ve concluded you’re harmless because if we can’t understand you surely nobody else can either except maybe the Chinese spammer.

      • ZrCrypDiK July 31, 2013 at 9:16 pm #

        In other words?!? (stooge) You pretenders don’t scare us geezahs. It might work wif da *YUN’gunz* – but not so much with us 50-70+. Give it up sock, we know *EXACTLY* who U R. I’ll bet you couldn’t even *DANCE* with teh best of us (you Sh!tter).

  227. UnstoppableFarceImmovableAbject July 31, 2013 at 8:23 pm #

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EiMUPdtFXI&feature=c4-overview&list=UUG-G8LLr38fQUNZU8K0t-EA

    Here’s a very interesting interview from Greg Hunter with a lady I’ve not heard of before, Catherine Austin Fitts. The most inquisitive posters here will have already heard of her, but for those who haven’t… Greg Hunter often has some quality guests who calmly and astutely scramble his ideological eggs; at least he’s great at givin’ them an opportunity to speak their minds.

    Anyhow, CAF’s disposition doesn’t appear to be way out of touch, but I’m interested in what say some of you in response to her ideas. To me, this interview expands on some of the notions alluded to in Paul Craig Robert’s recent commentary with GH regarding how the Master Manipulators are trying to avert the type of dire global collapse we all fret/hope for.

    It raises the question: didn’t the collapse already happen in ’07-’08 and everything since has just been the building of the so called new paradigm? If there was some event that were to occur today that by all rights should end it once and for all, wouldn’t they just pull some other trick out of their asses? There is no such thing as a rule book – Constitution – anymore, right? And no one imagined 20 plus trillion in bailouts last go round – what’s another few trillion?

    I mean, I remember hearing David Stockton talk a while back, and instantly thought he was full of shit and mildly retarded for thinking that trillions of dollars of toxic assets could have been handled in simple bankruptcy court – bailout was the only option. But he had a book to sell and has now receded to the background in irrelevance, so what’s actually been happening all along as all these shitty bubble’s have simply been re-inflated? Did that money just disappear into a black hole as Charles Hugh Smith has suggested?

    If there were another collapse scandal they sure as hell wouldn’t send the failures to bankruptcy court now. So what’s left? Yeah, they might let some of us starve, but they sure the hell won’t let our military go to waste before one final hoorah.

    CAF makes *good* sense as she describes how this new “Breakaway Civilization” has taken shape – how a 2nd industrial age in the US where all the old liabilities are abandoned to the old system is underway – Detroit, anyone? Of course it’s a dastardly set of scams and schemes we’ll witness no doubt, but we all know they’re doin’ it anyway. CAF seems careful not to come off as a Pollyanna-type, as she passively acknowledges that the middle class is gonna be forced to keyster those liabilities in some fashion.

    Clearly, we ensure ecological collapse nevertheless in whatever new techno-industrial age that pounds the final nails in the human species’ coffin; however, my guess is, after just a couple years lookin’ at this shit, the status quo and privileged hierarchy will possibly remain until the very end. The slow burn?
    CAF is one of the messy-but-workable transition to NWO types, instead of the familiar and, in my personal view, more frighteningly compelling Dmitry Orlov collapse Gurus – so a grain of salt is recommended no matter your preferred flavor. It’s just an interesting, contrary POV without being Pollyannistic, if that makes sense. It didn’t come across as a series of rosy premises to me, but please do weigh in.

    No question thangs could sure still git ugly though. Sorry for the ramble.

    -UFIA

    • BleatToTheBeat July 31, 2013 at 8:53 pm #

      The time will soon come when we all must deal with the
      Konglomeration of Irreconcilable Lying Lizards.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSDIT55KeKc

    • anti dod July 31, 2013 at 10:35 pm #

      She has Solari.com and is on Coast to Coast radio regularly.

    • beantownbill. July 31, 2013 at 10:41 pm #

      UFIA, thank you for providing this video. it’s actually somewhat along the lines of my own thinking. I’ve believed for quite a while that dangerous times are a comin’ – as a result of the stress produced, and the adjustments needed, as a consequence of rapid technological advance.

      CAF’s is basically saying that the traditional economy and its trickle-down effect into the current zeitgeist will give way to a new economic structure based on new technologies and investments.

      CAF’s slow burn seems more reasonable to me than a swift civilizational collapse, but I have the feeling she’s wearing rose-colored glasses. It appears that she’s seeing past the process and envisioning the end result. She’s looking at the big picture, which is critically important to do, for it paints an ultimately positive future. However, she’s skipping past the expected part of the vast human suffering that will occur.

      These will be harrowing times fraught with the frightening possibility of catastrophe. I think societal pressures will build to the point where something very bad could happen. Not saying it will, but it could. I’d say the probability is 50-50.

      Certainly ecological disaster could result, but nothing is a given. My own outlook is optimistic, not only because I expect a good ending, but also because I can’t live in a world where I’m constantly afraid we are all doomed.

      Anyway, thanks for contributing something substantial to the comments section, rather than the 95% drivel usually posted here.

    • BackRowHeckler August 1, 2013 at 7:03 am #

      She is a regular on C2C.

  228. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 8:27 pm #

    He is not helping you to find what you are asking for: not 575,000 sites, but 50 of the BEST prepper sites.

    janet, I haven’t checked, but if the the following is not on that list, it should be.

    http://www.backdoorsurvival.com/salt-in-the-prepper-pantry/

    Isn’t that a great name? I wanna be your backdoor man. Surviving sodomy? What does that even mean….backdoor survival? What about garage door survival, or front door survival, or side door survival….or bedroom window survival?

    One of the very first things I did when I first started prepping was to bolster my pantry with basic staples that could be used for variety of purposes. When it was suggested that I store salt, and lots of it, I was a disbeliever. After all conventional mainstream wisdom had taught be that salt was the bad guy. Or was it?

    I made it my mission to determine whether is salt a good thing, a bad thing or simply something best treated as an item to “use in moderation”.

    https://www.facebook.com/thesurvivalwoman

    ^Eyes Wide Open

  229. janet July 31, 2013 at 8:58 pm #

    Backdoor Survival was #7 on the list of the 50 BEST prepper sites.

    I still can’t believe ozone told anti dod to “glean and sift” from 575,000 sites. Maybe ozone is a double agent pretending not to be a DoD agent. Or maybe he just doesn’t know how to utilize Boolean operators in a Google search? Who knows? But it was a piss poor response to anti dod.

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    • Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 10:07 pm #

      I agree, it was an inconsiderate response. What kind of friend does such a thing? That’s not the kind of friend I want for The End.

      • ZrCrypDiK August 1, 2013 at 2:28 am #

        At least you got a list of 10 socks to count on, when that *HAPPENS*!!! (hah!)

    • ozone August 1, 2013 at 8:50 am #

      Ah yes, there it sits, the apex of mature, distractionary pigeon-holing:
      “I know you are, but what am I?”

      Good one, Ja’soka; good JOB! Now eat your graham cracker and drink your milk because it’s nap time.

  230. Q. Shtik July 31, 2013 at 9:08 pm #

    so you can [breath] easy

    haha

    • ZrCrypDiK August 1, 2013 at 2:27 am #

      easy breasy – socky!!! (racist)

  231. janet July 31, 2013 at 9:43 pm #

    UFIA,

    BT alerted us all to CAF long ago.

    Pay attention.

    Janet

  232. Carol Newquist July 31, 2013 at 10:05 pm #

    They have been trying to assassinate CAF for years now to include poisoning her. She must be on to them. Why else would they do such a thing?

    http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2009/03/catherine-austin-fitts-somebodys-been.html

    Fitts: “In 2004, I wrote a letter to Condoleezza Rice about 9-11, that got picked up by UPI and sort of caused consternation to the administration and then June 14th I had litigation against the federal government. We won the big case against the federal government on June 14th and I got a signal from my lawyers that the Department of Justice wanted to settle and I had arranged a Swiss bank account because I didn’t want the money in the US. I was just concerned that once we won and anybody had to pay us, they’d pull another dirty trick. So I faxed the signature pages back to the Swiss on June 16th and suddenly, Dennis, the next two days, Halliburton was the number one user on my website by a huge amount, not a little amount but a huge amount and then that third day I was poisoned very badly. Some of my doctors think they were trying to kill me.”

    Host: “You were poisoned?”

    Fitts: “Yes.”

    Host: “What was the poison?”

    Fitts: “We don’t know. I was poisoned four times during the litigation. Three were arsenic and the fourth was probably a lead concoction; we can’t figure it out. We know what my tests show. The normal lead content is 1.7 times, my original was 47. My nutritionist couldn’t believe I could even walk. But it was pretty bad and when things like that happen, you’re busy trying to survive, your not busy trying to ‘Oh, how can I document this?’ Because these aren’t the kinds of things you can document, we’re talking or goes–you know how do you call? You can’t call the local police, you can’t go see the Department of Justice. What do you do? You do the best you can, but you’re in a situation which we’re all in. The government is no longer the authorities we go to when you’re in danger. They’re the Sheriff of Nottingham. We need to run and hide from them, protect our assets from them.”

  233. janet July 31, 2013 at 10:26 pm #

    But you do not agree with CAF on gold, Carol.

    CAF says, “I don’t think the people who run the U.S. military or run the United States government are going to say we’re happy to collapse rather than go to war. They are going to go to war. They’re going to shake somebody down.” Fitts goes on to add, “I think gold is the greatest form of insurance you can have during this transition period.”

    Maybe she has economic resources at hand to stockpile gold. Most of us worry about just getting enough food on the table for our kids while living from paycheck to paycheck. CAF sounds like a one per center to me.

  234. janet July 31, 2013 at 10:38 pm #

    Carol said of ozone’s inane response: “What kind of friend does such a thing? That’s not the kind of friend I want for The End.”

    It is a dangerous thing to do. Ozone is courting trouble by not helping someone who is only looking for the BEST prepper sites. By not helping, by actually virtually flipping anti dod the bird and telling him to “sift and glean” through 575,000 sites (like we have that much time before collapse!), ozone is creating enemies. At least we are being warned ozone cannot be depended upon. Word spreads thanks to the internet. During collapse ozone won’t want enemies. His very survival depends on collaboration… not showing exactly how irrelevant he is. Then again, maybe ozone just doesn’t have the requisite skills. Either way, ozone will be toast if he continues to act as he is acting. Some humans, who are part of nature, are not going be forgiving of his shit.

    And that ends my anti-encomium.

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    • K-Dog August 1, 2013 at 1:14 am #

      And none too soon. Obfuscation and stench were becoming overwhelming. I found the fifty sites all by myself and didn’t need help from anyone. My paws can GOOGLE and I can go from there. I figured I’d take a chance on getting tracked. take myself a walk on the wild side.

      Now you’ve got toys. The XKeyscore training documents at K-Dog are eight years old now. I imagine the well funded software teams have left that toy with a few revision levels in it. A dot dot wonder. Let me take a wild guess, you can target internet and phone using the same program now. All kinds of fancy plug-ins in five years.

      Boys on the payroll are probably looking at the Guardian documents at the ancient history. If they still laugh.

      • K-Dog August 1, 2013 at 1:17 am #

        – looking at the Guardian documents and laughing at them as if they were ancient history. If they still laugh.

        • ZrCrypDiK August 1, 2013 at 2:25 am #

          Methinks K-dog needs a lil pat on the back (I’ll come at you OPEN PALMED)… hehehe!!!

      • ozone August 1, 2013 at 9:27 am #

        How did you possibly find those sites by googling, “prepper sites”??
        Golly gee, it was so hard that I gave up after .14 seconds!
        (I’ll just ask the Ja’soka entity next time; it knows all and its’ info is iron-clad gum’mint approved!)
        😉

    • Nastarana August 1, 2013 at 9:07 am #

      Miss Janet, if you are taking names and addresses, please be aware that I, for one, want nothing to do with your future dystopia of the select.

  235. janet August 1, 2013 at 1:32 am #

    K-Dog said: “Let me take a wild guess, you can target internet and phone using the same program now. ”

    K-Dog, I’ve got a slow, aging computer. You’ve got a case of paranoia and over-rated self-importance, like anyone in the government would care what you are typing.

    take myself a walk on the wild side.

    Some people get cheap thrills from their imagination.

  236. janet August 1, 2013 at 1:42 am #

    OK, K-Dog, I’m going to throw you a bone. We here at the agency (in Virginia, of course) know how words become signifiers. When you have an experience, K-Dog, (a signified), the Agency immediately knows what word (a signifier) forms in your brain to represent that experience.

    Of course, I cannot reveal how we know your thoughts. But our technology is much more advanced than you can even imagine. We don’t need to rely on software. Software is 20th century. We’re way beyond that and know what is going on inside your head.

    How do you like that for obfuscation and stench?

    Have a good night’s sleep, K-Dog.

  237. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 6:50 am #

    But you do not agree with CAF on gold, Carol.

    I don’t really know what she thinks or says. I do know she used to hang with that freak, Ruppert, but beyond that I never paid much attention to her namely because she was former Wall Street. I don’t trust a former Wall Streeter anymore more than I trust a former CIA officer or a former politician or cabinet member. About the only former anything I trust is Frank Serpico, the former New York City police officer who took on the corrupt police department (redundant, I know) back in the early seventies. I own the movie and watch it every other year to center my perspective.

    Speaking of Ruppert, I actually watched the documentary with/about him and his views called, of all things, Collapse. I think it should have been named Thank You For Smoking
    because that is where all the action was……Ruppert chain smoking through-out the entire thing. Shit, I think he must have gone through three packs and it was as though he were making love to each cigarette such was his passion for them. Either way, it was an expose about the mentally ill and their reliance on cigarettes to get them through the day as much as anything else.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoZ0RvwjYF0

    • ozone August 1, 2013 at 9:01 am #

      Say now! That’s the absolute weakest ‘critique’ I have ever read!
      Good JOB. (You’re living “up” to our expectations.)

  238. progress4what August 1, 2013 at 7:18 am #

    Obama: “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon.”

    Janetasokacarol: “If I were a dog, I’d behave like this one.”

    http://www.perthnow.com.au/lifestyle/home-garden/dog-eats-paralysed-man8217s-testicle-while-he-sleeps/story-fnhqg9vj-1226689510173

    • progress4what August 1, 2013 at 7:24 am #

      By the way, they euthanized the dog, severed its head, and sent it in for rabies testing.

      And the man was treated at St. Bernard Hospital.

      You guess this is all a hoax like janetasokacarol.

      Ban the Trolling Twosome, JHK.

  239. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 8:26 am #

    You guess this is all a hoax

    I’m thinking much of it is. JHK’s one of the few sane people to carry this message of collapse. The majority of the rest are either insane, hucksters/hoaxers, or both. How many of you believe aliens, not the ones from Mexico or any other country but rather from outerspace, live amongst us? I’m going to bet that more than a few who post here probably believe that but would never come clean about it. Well, CAF believes it, and since many of you here believe everything CAF tells you to believe, I must conclude that you believe aliens from outerspace walk amongst us. Hardly any of you have any objectivity or credibility. Choose your sources more wisely, or better yet, think for yourself rather than having your thoughts handed to you by the ‘former’ (note the use of single quotes versus double) handmaidens of Plutocrats.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/print.html?path=HL0209/S00126.htm

    The $64 Question: What’s Up With the Black Budget?

    The Real Deal with Catherine Austin Fitts

    I met with a group of high level people in the military in the process — including the Undersecretary. According to John, the purpose of the plan — discussed in front of several military or retired military officers and former government officials— was to help the Navy adjust their operations for a world in which it was commonly known that aliens exist and live among us.

    When John explained this purpose to me, I explained that I did not know that aliens existed and lived among us. John asked me if I would like to meet some aliens. For the only time in my life, I declined an opportunity to learn about something important. I was concerned that my efforts with Arlington could boomerang and be connected with the smear campaign and the effects that I was managing. I regret that decision. At John’s suggestion I started to read books on the topic and read about 25 books over the next year on the alien question, the black budget, and alien technology.

    That, my friends (even though you’re really not my friends), is classic, calculated disinformation/misinformation. Giant red lights should be flashing in your thick skulls, but instead you gobble it up like a dog chowing down on its paralyzed owner’s testicle.

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    • UnstoppableFarceImmovableAbject August 1, 2013 at 9:45 am #

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6rQDvRsCkI

      Carol, that article was weird but nonetheless interesting as I knew nothing of CAF before last night. At the very least it seems like CAF was smart enough not to entirely take the bait in what sounds to me like a set up aimed at making her seem crazy. And I’d like to know if you can substantiate this claim a bit more:

      “Well, CAF believes it, and since many of you here believe everything CAF tells you to believe, I must conclude that you believe aliens from outerspace walk amongst us.”

      ********************************************************************************

      Other than that your posts about CAF don’t amount to much more than your usual libelous vandalism. Here’s the full context of the article to which you linked:

      “I had to drop from the project due to the need to attend to litigation and the physical harassment and surveillance of me and some of the people helping me. This process —which turned out to be incredibly time consuming — I now believe was connected with the black budget/slush fund activities connected with FHA and Ginnie Mae at HUD. (See, “The Myth of the Rule of Law”)

      John then asked me if I would join the board of the Arlington Institute.When I attended one of my first meetings, I joined in discussion with about 10 people which included James Woolsey, former head of the CIA in the Clinton Administration, Napier Collyns, founder of Global Business Network and former senior Shell executive, Joe Firmage, John, and other members of the Arlington board. The main topic of discussion was whether or not the major project for the coming year should be a white paper on how to help the American people adjust to aliens existing and living among us. I said nothing — just listened. Not that long after, I dropped from the board due to the continued demands related to litigation with the Department of Justice and their informant.

      To cut a series of additional long stories short, when I talk with my few sources from the military and intelligence community, I hear the same themes:

      1. Aliens exist and live among us;

      2. In part for this reason as well the accumulated investment over the last 50 years, the technology we have access to through the black budget is far more advanced than is commonly understood;

      3. The black budget/slush fund construct was created to deal with this issue, which is why reasonable people thought selling drugs to the children who were US citizens was the better of several options — including the option of telling the American public the truth and funding the expenses on budget.

      As a result of these experiences, here is my framework for dealing with this very large pile of uncertainty.

      ONE OF THE THREE FOLLOWING POSSIBLE SCENARIOS MUST BE TRUE

      SCENARIO #1. ENTRE NOUS: The alien question is the single largest and most expensive disinformation campaign in the history of our race. A portion of the human race has advanced technologically so far beyond the rest of us — and is attributing various things to aliens as a way of managing their resulting risk—that we have become as aliens to each other. To fully understand this scenario, we need to try to understand the use of individual mind control such as criminal hypnosis to effect financial and government fraud and corruption and the truth, whatever it is, of wider subliminal programming and brainwashing. These are slippery subjects for most people to deal with unless they have the training and ability to do so.

      % PROBABILITY SCENARIO #1 IS TRUE ______ (You fill in)

      SCENARIO #2 — HOLY COW!: Aliens exist and live among us. Planet earth is subject to the politics, economics and laws and/or lawlessness of a larger system or systems. The transfer of advanced technology into a society that has not evolved governance and legal systems to manage a world with the presence of such technology and the influence of such other system(s) helps to explain current events. To fully understand this scenario, we must also try to understand the use of individual mind control such as criminal hypnosis to effect financial and government fraud and corruption and the truth, whatever it is, of wide subliminal programming and brainwashing. Again, these are slippery subjects for most people to deal with unless they have the training and ability to do so.

      % PROBABILITY SCENARIO #2 IS TRUE ______ (You fill in)

      3. SCENARIO #3 — MUDDLED: Some combination of (1) and (2) above.

      % PROBABILITY SCENARIO #3 IS TRUE ______ (You fill in)

      TOTAL % PROBABILITY OF SCENARIOS #1,2 & 3 BEING TRUE 100%

      Could my experiences with Arlington and the Navy or any subsequent contacts fit with a disinformation scenario? Absolutely. I have no evidence to support any scenario. The only evidence I believe I have is my experience dealing with tremendous amounts of money siphoned off over the years, whether through Iran-Contra S&L, HUD and BCCI fraud, or the latest round of money missing from the federal government in the last five years. This is all documented in the articles below. This cash flow and the operations and syndicates it appears to fund are important to what drives the governance and allocation of resources in this country and around the globe. There is a reason that power and money are centralizing and the rich are getting richer. I want to know what it is.

      Whichever scenario is true —and I do not know which one is —- if we had the truth it will help us grapple with 9-11 and the War on Terrorism. It would also help us better understand all the efforts to press for centralization of economic and political power that have grown as the black budget has grown since WWII. The reality is the possibilities of why 9-11 occurred and how it was operationalized are impacted by the facts of the US black budget and the advanced technology it has developed. Why would sane and even decent people think it was the best option for the good of the whole?” -CAF

      -UFIA

  240. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 8:46 am #

    If this isn’t proof that Putin’s a pussy errand boy, nothing is. He’s in bed with them….doing their bidding…..making Snowden’s ‘temporary’ asylum conditional upon Snowden refraining from leaking anymore ‘secrets.’ What’s the matter, pussy Putin, you afraid those ‘secrets’ might reveal you for the errand boy you are? I think so, you fraud, and it probably explains why you recently tried to pull another one of your macho PR stunts to cover up the fact that you take it up the ass like all the rest.

    http://news.yahoo.com/edward-snowden-got-asylum-russia-lawyer-says-121914081.html

    MOSCOW (AP) — National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden left transit zone of a Moscow airport and entered Russia after authorities granted him temporary asylum, his lawyer said Thursday.

    Anatoly Kucherena said that Snowden’s whereabouts will be kept secret for security reasons. The former NSA systems analyst was stuck at Moscow’s Sheremetyevo airport since his arrival from Hong Kong on June 23.

    The U.S. has demanded that Russia send Snowden home to face prosecution for espionage, but President Vladimir Putin dismissed the request.

    Putin had said that Snowden could receive asylum in Russia on condition he stops leaking U.S. secrets. Kucherena has said Snowden accepted the condition.

    Stalin is rolling in his grave.

    • ozone August 1, 2013 at 9:15 am #

      Once again: “I know you are, but what am I?”
      That button was worn off in 3rd grade; why do you super agent provocateurs keep pushing it? Is that the general public’s maturity level these days… or just your handlers’?

      Errand Boy and Fraud indeed.

  241. progress4what August 1, 2013 at 9:22 am #

    Thought provoking posts, carol – those last two.

    Snowden has no “secrets” from the Government – which, after all, created all these secrets in the first place.

    And I’ll guarantee you that the Russians know everything that Snowden has by now. So, most of this is all multi-national horse trading and a PR campaign by now.

    ==========================

    And all free people are entitled to think Crazy Thoughts from time to time. That includes O3, K9, and anyone else. Janetasoka is NOT entitled to shout down these partially formed thoughts – not over-and-over and week-after-week; at least not on JHK’s commercial webspace. Which is why Janetasoka should be permanently banned by JHK if he won’t stop.

    As for you, “carol,” many of your Crazy Thoughts are expressed in nasty homophobic sexual metaphor.

    “cover up the fact that you take it up the ass like all the rest.”
    -“carol,” to Vladimir –

    Why do you do this, “carol.” It’s certainly not for clarity.

    sea kelp

    • ozone August 1, 2013 at 11:19 am #

      P4W,
      Here’s a conjecture that may or may not come from the perspective of ‘the crazy’:

      It’s my observation that the general thrust of “carol’s” belittling and acerbic posts is to convince you that if you’re a ‘intelligent person’, you’d realize that you have absolutely no power over your own life. (Hinting of the subtext, written across the sky, “Surrender Dorothy”. Give up, stop trying to affect anything outside of the current BAU. TPTB have got you by the short hairs.)

      Meanwhile, this is an entity that’s distinctly attempting to control commenters to a blog by blatant derision. (Turning them into NON-commenters.) So this entity is operating in the very center of a dichotomy. I, for one, do not trust this position to be any kind of arbiter of the truth. Schemes, lies, fraud.

      This is a site for independent thinkers and actors. Historically, that’s assumed to be dangerous to established institutions. It very well could be. Especially since the ‘ideas’ for the operation of the social machine now come from the ossified and completely self-interested psychos who run these institutions from the top of a huge, extractive pyramid, instead of organically coming from those who have to live life at reality’s ground-level. (This would be where give-a-shit about one’s fellow humans comes from; it’s a simple matter of practicality.)

      BTW, I’m not crazy; I’m just “misunderstood” and profoundly paranoid! 😉

      • UnstoppableFarceImmovableAbject August 1, 2013 at 11:47 am #

        Hahaha, great song for the day, ‘Zone:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCUmSijiWxA

        “BTW, I’m not crazy; I’m just “misunderstood” and profoundly paranoid!” – Oz

        I just received my membership card for that club in the mail, too. Freaks my peers, family, and teachers out like a mo fo. it’s a wonder they let me out in public sometimes… lol

        • ozone August 1, 2013 at 12:55 pm #

          UFIA,
          Our club’s only redeeming characteristic is that none of us trusts anyone else enough to appoint any of their compatriots to ‘leadership’ positions! 😀

  242. progress4what August 1, 2013 at 9:37 am #

    O3 k9 K9

    WOW, automatic subscripted digits.

    First thing – besides the absence of the Chinese Spammer – about JHK’s new software that is completely positive.

    • ozone August 1, 2013 at 11:24 am #

      P4W,
      Help a guy out here. What be automatic subscripted digits?
      (Color me technologically ignorant… ’cause I AM.)
      I tried looking it up, but was instantly flummoxed and befuddled. I’ll look again, just out of mule-headed-ness.

    • ozone August 1, 2013 at 12:17 pm #

      Ah, now I see from re-reading the Wiki entry.
      Sub-SCRIPTed, regarding a piece of script that’s “sub-ordinated” to the previous character. Sort of “halfway beneath” as the opposite of the placement of a numerical exponent, which would be sort of “halfway above”.
      (Now you’ve gone and made me use my thinker-organ thingie. Don’t do that any more, it’s very painful; I coulda had some kind of vessel ‘splosion!)

  243. janet August 1, 2013 at 11:30 am #

    “the technology we have access to through the black budget is far more advanced than is commonly understood” –CAF

    There you have it. Confirmation from an insider. We will never run out of energy. This is what I have been saying all along. No reason to fear the future. Don’t worry be happy. Relax.

  244. janet August 1, 2013 at 11:37 am #

    Miss Janet, if you are taking names and addresses, please be aware that I, for one, want nothing to do with your future dystopia of the select.

    Miss Nastarana, I am not taking names and addresses. I respect your privacy and 4th amendment rights.

    Miss Nastarana, I am not part of any “select” and do not even know what you mean by “dystopia”

    Miss Nastarana, all I have ever asked is that people not allow themselves to be manipulated by fear.

    Miss Nastarana, I do not work for any government agency. I am self-employed, a homemaker, and do not receive a paycheck from anyone.

    Miss Nastarana, I hope this helps you to relax and feel safe. Nobody is out to get you or make you suffer.

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  245. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 11:42 am #

    And I’d like to know if you can substantiate this claim a bit more:

    It’s obvious and self-explanatory to anyone with more than a couple of brain cells. I have nothing against people believing aliens walk amongst us, UFIA. If that’s your thing, and it seems it is, then go for it. Shit, people believe in a thing called “God” and believe he sent “his” only “son” (it couldn’t be the daughter, could it?) to walk amongst us, so why not aliens as well. It’s all good.

    UFIA, have you been poisoned with lead and arsenic as well? What about JHK? He speaks truth to power and yet I don’t see him talking about aliens and poisonings. Sure, he’s had a lot of surgeries, but that’s just normal wear and tear, not some shadowy, nefarious forces out to get him for speaking his mind.

    You guys love to have the bejesus scared out of you. It explains your gathering around the campfire 24/7 for the next, latest and greatest ghost story. Meanwhile, Rome burns…..eternally.

    And do me a favor and cut out your “ignorance” schtick. It’s obvious you’re being coy. You knew all about CAF. I know you did. The question is, how did I know. I’ll let you answer it.

    • UnstoppableFarceImmovableAbject August 1, 2013 at 12:37 pm #

      Wrong on all counts, Carol.

      I already know that you’re simply stringing together a host of unfounded accusations to bait me into some sort of disingenuous challenge, and therefore should pay no attention, but I’m bored at the moment.

      I truly missed any mention of CAF on this site before yesterday. However, I can see why one would doubt this as most of the material I offer for comment comes from mutually appreciated sites – sources I only learned of from visiting here in the first place. Most of the time I realize that what I’m cluing into is old news, but because I lack the analytic capacity to synthesize and expound upon much of the material in an original way I simply resort to listening to my intuitive hunches when I find something that dials into a line of reasoning I’d like to explore. The bigger brains around here flesh out the ideas in invaluable ways for me; even the deceptive double speak you engage in points out an occasional detail that makes me question something in a useful manner – though that’s not to be mistaken as praise.

      That’s about it, Carol. I’m probably the weakest, most undisciplined, and unfocused intellect ’round these parts. Funny thing is I’m a high school drop out and a graduate student – go figger. Guess I’m one of the dumb-luck-idiot-successes that wiggled through the small cracks in the social wall. At some point that’ll catch up to me, but for now I’m just playing the game others designed.

      Gawd, Alien hybrids, 9/11 Troofers, CIA assassination fears and all the other pejorative conspiracy nutter labels you and dipshits like yank-O can toss out don’t really apply to how I see the world, but my deep instinct and proclivity toward skepticism, cynicism, and plain old paranoia does keep me questioning – everything. That’s close enough to crazy in the long run I ‘spose.

      True enough though, I do enjoy a good fright now and again, but if anything that simply tells me that I still have the capacity for emotion, which distinguishes me from the NPD types such as yourself. And it’s also true that the NPDs of this society would simply shrivel and die were it not for the The Golden Rule Enablers of the world. The class of enablers far outnumber the class of psychos, socios, and ordinary narcissists often disproportionately blamed for fukin’ everything up, so I myself have fuked up in givin’ you the satisfaction of a reply, but oh well. I’m not out to win, Carol. I have no stake in the outcome. You can have all the blood you wish.

      Now, let the others go back to providing you with the job security you’re really after, I’d just quickly bore you and fail to give you the reaction your superiors expect.

      -UFIA

  246. janet August 1, 2013 at 11:47 am #

    Which is why Janetasoka should be permanently banned by JHK if he won’t stop. As for you, “carol,”…

    P4W, are you now thinking Carol and Janet are two different persons?

    Janet

  247. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 11:49 am #

    There you have it. Confirmation from an insider. We will never run out of energy. This is what I have been saying all along. No reason to fear the future. Don’t worry be happy. Relax.

    I so love it when you get them tangled in their metaphorical jockstraps. In the spirit of Keith Jackson, they start stumbling and fumbling. But, but , but……….

  248. janet August 1, 2013 at 11:50 am #

    Ozone, I can help you out here, if you’re not too proud to receive tech help from a homemaker. You know how you can make bold text or italics text by placing a b or i inside those pointy brackets?

    Superscript is done by placing sup inside the brackets, and subscript is done by placing sub inside the brackets.

    I don’t know why people are hiding this information from you. You may be the target of a disinformation campaign… LOL!

  249. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 11:51 am #

    Help a guy out here. What be automatic subscripted digits?

    I can’t believe I even converse with a moron who doesn’t even know this. Eat more salmon.

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    • ozone August 1, 2013 at 12:04 pm #

      You quite neatly make my case about your ‘purpose here’ for me.
      Good JOB; here’s your cookie!

      (You can cease ‘conversing’ with me without any hurt whatsoever. Go right ahead; a few less of your posts would be quite welcomed.)

  250. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 11:54 am #

    I don’t know why people are hiding this information from you. You may be the target of a disinformation campaign… LOL!

    It’s those aliens who walk amongst us, doncha know! They can’t touch you though if you own gold. Buy gold. It will inoculate you against everything….the collapse, aliens…even death.

  251. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 12:01 pm #

    Which is why Janetasoka should be permanently banned by JHK if he won’t stop. As for you, “carol,”…

    Will you please leave JHK be. You remind me of those vampiric leeches in Cool Hand Luke who wouldn’t leave Luke alone. They lived their empty lives vicariously through him. Inspiration wasn’t enough, they had to have every last drop of him until he finally told them to leave him the fuck alone.

    Janet

    • debt August 1, 2013 at 6:03 pm #

      Well there you have it. Carol Newquist signs off as “Janet”. Asoka you are such a shitwit. You need to spend more time with your hundreds of Muslim friends with whom you have lived, loved, laughed and cried. I really do feel sorry for you since you have nothing better to do than hang out here. 24/7

      Debt

    • anti dod August 1, 2013 at 6:51 pm #

      Hi Caroljanet! Or is it Janetcarol?

  252. janet August 1, 2013 at 12:01 pm #

    They can’t touch you though if you own gold.

    Not just gold. Buy provisions. Stock up your basement with 10 years of food and water.

    No just gold and provisions. Buy guns and ammo. When TSHTF your neighbors (the ones you are on speaking terms with now and seem nice) will become Hobbesian barbarians as soon as their stomach starts growling. They will notice all the lights are out except from your house (because you invested in thousands of dollars of generators and gasoline) and they will start plotting. Soon the neighbors will band together, hungry hordes of neighbors, and they will start toward your house. Why? Because you were stupid enough to buy gold, provisions, guns and ammo … and eventually you will have to sleep. Lights out. Boo!

    • Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 12:03 pm #

      Jesus, don’t make me wet my pants like that!

    • Neon Vincent August 1, 2013 at 3:17 pm #

      Dammit, Janet, I know exactly which of my links to recommend for you, the only one I have about preppers so far.

      http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/2012/01/preppers-in-reuters-and-national.html

      I would have linked to an entry about Guido Sarducci (“My advice is to buy shovels and start digging.”) but I don’t have one. I’ll have to correct that oversight one of these days.

  253. janet August 1, 2013 at 12:05 pm #

    P4W, do you see yourself as a self-appointed protector of JHK’s “commercial space”? Why don’t you let JHK worry about it? Week after week there is free expression of ideas and you are the only one who week after week is calling for banning people like Janet. Boring.

    Carol

  254. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 12:05 pm #

    When I see CAF, the word ‘fit” does not come to mind.

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  255. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 12:06 pm #

    “commercial space”?

    You’re good……REAL GOOD!

  256. janet August 1, 2013 at 12:14 pm #

    JULY 2013: ‘Nobody’s ever seen it this wet this long’–southern farmers reeling from endless rainfall…

    But according to Tea Party Patriots and Conservatives global warming is a hoax. These 100-year storms that come every other year now, these droughts and these deluges, are just part of a naturally occurring cycle. Why, the Arctic has melted before, 55 million years ago. See, humans are not the cause of global warming. It’s just part of a 55 million year cycle. Idiots.

    With Too Much Rain in the South, Too Little Produce on the Shelves

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/30/us/too-much-rain-in-the-south-too-little-produce-on-the-shelves.html?_r=0

  257. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 12:18 pm #

    With Too Much Rain in the South, Too Little Produce on the Shelves

    Yeah, and last time I checked, Ford F-110s don’t float especially when they’re loaded down with bloated, obese cretins who don’t know what automated subscript is.

  258. janet August 1, 2013 at 12:23 pm #

    When I see CAF, the word ‘fit” does not come to mind.

    CAF is a “money manager.” She counsels people on how to structure their portfolios. She utilizes fear to keep herself in business. She produces nothing of value. She is part of the problem that JHK speaks of regarding capital formation. (At least Asoka built mud huts where people could live comfortably.)

    CAF is a parasite and a paranoid. That she even has an audience is a sad commentary of 21st century America.

  259. janet August 1, 2013 at 12:26 pm #

    500th!

    Good work this week!

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  260. janet August 1, 2013 at 12:40 pm #

    especially when they’re loaded down with bloated, obese cretins who don’t know what automated subscript is.

    And are too stupid to know how to use what Tim Berners-Lee invented for us to find out.

    I suppose it is my fault. I could have given ozone a list of 575,000 web sites on automated script and told the bastard to “sift and glean” through them. But I’m not that mean… or average… or mediocre.

  261. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 1:13 pm #

    But I’m not that mean

    No, you’re not, in fact, you’re quite the contrary; you’re one of the nicest people I know. You give and expect nothing in return. Unfortunately, that’s a rare quality is the U.S.

  262. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 1:14 pm #

    janet, even though this new software seems to give these techno-morons Fitts, I like it. What about you?

  263. janet August 1, 2013 at 1:18 pm #

    Dreamtime in America is a time of bullies.

    If You Still Don’t Think We Need Feminism, You Should See The Signs These Girls Were Bullied For

    http://www.upworthy.com/if-you-still-dont-think-we-need-feminism-you-should-see-the-signs-these-girls-were-bullied-for

  264. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 1:29 pm #

    janet, here’s my backdoorsurvival strategy tip of the day. Eat more fruits and/or vegetables and less meat….and elimnate all meats that are preserved with Sodium Nitrite; it increases substantially the risk of colorectal cancer, hence the backdoor.

    http://www.dukehealth.org/health_library/health_articles/myth-or-fact-hot-dogs-cause-cancer

    Processed meats, including hot dogs, bacon, and deli meats, are linked to increased colorectal cancer.

    Both nitrate and nitrite, however, form nitrosamines — a known carcinogen — when mixed with protein-rich foods like meats. Nitrosamines create cell damage in the body.

    Snyder says that even when eaten in moderation, hot dogs are a risky food. She points to research showing that eating 3.5 ounces of processed meat every day (24.5 ounces per week) increases the risk of colorectal cancer by 36 percent when compared to someone who eats no processed meat.

    In addition to trimming all processed meats from your diet, Snyder recommends practicing these healthy lifestyle habits to reduce colorectal cancer risk:

    Reduce alcohol consumption.
    Exercise regularly.
    Maintain a healthy weight.
    Eat more fiber.

    Consider healthier alternatives to traditional hot dogs, such as vegetarian hot dogs, or cook fruits and vegetables on the grill instead.

    I selected a palatable link for the racists here; Duke. I figured they would click on anything authoritative with the name Duke in it. Wasn’t that nice of me to think of them like that? I’m trying to model your magnanimity.

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  265. janet August 1, 2013 at 1:32 pm #

    janet, even though this new software seems to give these techno-morons Fitts, I like it. What about you?

    I am agnostic. I am glad we don’t have the white supremacist trolls, anti-immigration trolls, Chinese spammer trolls, and other trolls anymore. Occasionally some here still function as troll-bait.

    Because I have a family to care for and an active life in the community, I can’t be going back over all the conversations to see if new posts have been made. So, the conversation threading feature does mean some posts are never read. No great loss. And easily defeated when posting by clicking on the bottom reply button.

  266. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 1:35 pm #

    If You Still Don’t Think We Need Feminism, You Should See The Signs These Girls Were Bullied For

    Those intelligent, well-adjusted human beings at that link are not abiding. Don’t show that to Orlov cuz if you do, be prepared to ferry him to the emergency room so he can be treated for his conniption.

  267. janet August 1, 2013 at 1:38 pm #

    Wasn’t that nice of me to think of them like that?

    Very nice!

    You may have saved the lives of countless South Beach and Paleo diet carnivores!

    My backdoor diet advice: GOMBBS

    http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/healthy-food-gombbs-greens-onions-mushrooms-berries-beans-and-seeds.html

  268. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 1:39 pm #

    No great loss. And easily defeated when posting by clicking on the bottom reply button.

    Yeah, the imbedded reply feature is a turn-off and comments do get missed as a result, but other than that, it’s an improvement, and I like the minimalist background and elegant font. Your family is very lucky to have a person as special as you looking after them. If only the world was made up of more people like you…..it would be a better place.

  269. BackRowHeckler August 1, 2013 at 1:45 pm #

    Holy crap! Every post on this page is Asoka! Dude, you’ve finally taken over. Congratulations! This is your blog, not JHKs.

    Snowden is f-cked! Russia has allowed him in for 1 year. Can you imagine what a sickening, fearful thing it is to be wanted by the Feds? Long after the world moves on and Snowden is forgotten, he will still be a wanted man. Many, many people have travelled to Russia for political purposes, never to be seen nor heard from again. But Snowden will not simply disappear; he is too well known, a celebrity if you will. No, rather like earlier exiles Big Bill Haywood, Wobbly Organizer, and John Reed, Journalist, he will mysteriously die an early death, from natural causes of course, when he no longer serves a purpose. Russia is a hard place; those boys play for keeps.

    –BRH

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  270. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 1:51 pm #

    No, rather like earlier exiles Big Bill Haywood, Wobbly Organizer, and John Reed, Journalist, he will mysteriously die an early death, from natural causes of course, when he no longer serves a purpose. Russia is a hard place; those boys play for keeps.

    Russia is not what it was under Stalin, that’s why I said Stalin is rolling in his grave. If we take the story at face value, and I’m not saying anyone should because there’s always more than face value, then Putin is essentially silencing Snowden for the U.S., hence he’s an errand boy of the Plutocracy and will take it up the ass when told to bend over. Sandy Krolic lives in Russia and he seems to be getting along just fine. He travels back to the U.S. several times a year without much interference, if any, or delay…and he’s quite critical of the U.S. Your assessment doesn’t square with his experience. How do you explain that?

    • BackRowHeckler August 1, 2013 at 2:17 pm #

      Good question about Krolic. Don’t know. Maybe Putin finds him useful … for the time being.

  271. janet August 1, 2013 at 2:11 pm #

    Do you think President Obama should cancel his travel to Moscow in early September for a bilateral meeting with Vladimir Putin immediately before Russia hosts the G20 summit in St. Petersburg?

  272. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 2:20 pm #

    Do you think President Obama should cancel his travel to Moscow in early September for a bilateral meeting with Vladimir Putin immediately before Russia hosts the G20 summit in St. Petersburg?

    If this question is directed at me, I would rephrase it to say “will Obama cancel his travel to Moscow….?” No, he won’t. Putin’s handling of Snowden has shown him to be a feckless paper tiger who cooperates behind the scenes. In that respect, the meeting with Putin is very much in keeping.

  273. janet August 1, 2013 at 2:40 pm #

    Long after the world moves on and Snowden is forgotten, he will still be a wanted man.

    Really? This week JHK says this week: “in a few months.”

    Once TSHTF in a few months, the economy crashes, banks fail, the government falls, the military disbands because they aren’t getting paid, the FBI and CIA disappear (they won’t work without pay), the NSA computers fail from lack of maintenance, the federal justice system disintegrates, etc. … nobody in law enforcement will be concerned about Snowden.

    The USA will be history, just as Khrushchev predicted on November 18, 1956: Russia will bury the USA.

    What the [lazy, tattooed, drug-addicted] bourgeoisie therefore produces, above all, are its own grave-diggers. Its fall and the victory of the proletariat are equally inevitable. –concluding statement in Chapter 1 of the Communist Manifesto

    But I don’t think anyone here really believes JHK’s prediction of “in a few months.”

  274. janet August 1, 2013 at 3:05 pm #

    Putin’s handling of Snowden has shown him to be a feckless paper tiger …

    Putin showed he is a coward with his overreaction to Pussy Riot.

    August 1, 2013: “The Pussy Riot rockers jailed for performing an anti-Putin song in a cathedral might be pardoned by the president under a general amnesty this year. The Kremlin human rights council has created a working group to identify inmates to be pardoned by President Vladimir Putin to mark 20 years of the Russian Constitution, Izvestia reported Thursday.”

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  275. janet August 1, 2013 at 3:50 pm #

    Russia is a hard place; those boys play for keeps.

    So how do you explain the existence of an anti-Putin political protest movement? Why hasn’t Putin eliminated all of those involved?

  276. janet August 1, 2013 at 4:42 pm #

    All four of GM’s brands ranked above average.

    GM has the best quality in the entire industry.

    I guess Obama was right about GM. The cars are better now.

    Detroit’s Big 3 automakers saw a strong sales performance in July.

    General Motors, the largest of the three, saw a 16% sales gain. Ford and Chrysler are both reporting 11% sales gains for July, making it one of the best performing months in years.

    Here’s are the details for each:

    General Motors

    General Motors’ 16% gain was even stronger when sales to individual customers are taken into account. They were up 23%. Each of GM’s four brands posted double-digit increases in sales to individual customers, the sales that matter the most.

  277. janet August 1, 2013 at 4:48 pm #

    The Red States are the taker states
    (they get more from the federal government than they send in taxes).

    The Blue States are the donor states.

    Chris Christie kicked Rand Paul’s ass in their recent exchange. When Christie reminded Paul that Kentucky is a taker state and New Jersey is a donor state, Paul decided to end the exchange.

    I’m not complaining about Kentucky. The persistent phenomenon of red state socialism should be supported. Even though Republicans talk about “small government” and “rugged individualism,” red states benefit from a one-way flow of dollars from Washington, a federal gravy train disproportionately provided by blue state taxpayers.

    But hypocrisy or no, that is as it should be. Because when it comes to health care, education, public safety, needed infrastructure and so much else, Americans’ mutual commitment to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness cannot end at the state line.

  278. Q. Shtik August 1, 2013 at 5:08 pm #

    You know how you can make bold text or italics text by placing a b or i inside those pointy brackets?

    Only italics works for me. I have been unable to bold any text since this site was revamped. I will make one more attempt at bolding below.

    This is a test.

    • Q. Shtik August 1, 2013 at 5:08 pm #

      Nope, didn’t work.

  279. progress4what August 1, 2013 at 5:08 pm #

    It’s not paranoia if they really are out to get you.
    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/08/government-knocking-doors-because-google-searches/67864/

    And – no offense intended to K9 and O3.

    Ban janetasoka, JHK – and the CFN dialog will slowly improve.
    And you will get more page visits from people who might buy a book.

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  280. progress4what August 1, 2013 at 5:11 pm #

    Ban the Trolling Twosome.

    Yet another test.

  281. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 5:17 pm #

    Nope, didn’t work.

    Methinks you should have your eyeglasses prescription checked.

  282. alpha mail August 1, 2013 at 5:25 pm #

    So, is Asoka, adequatio really “janet”? Let’s go back in time to perhaps find the answer: Source: Clusterfuck archives, May 8, 2013:

    adequatio replied to comment from lucky 13 | May 8, 2013 3:45 PM
    I knew someone who died on a fruit diet

    ============

    Lucky 13, the botanical definition of a fruit is anything with seeds in it.

    You will not die on a fruit diet if you eat botanical fruits, things like avocados, green peppers, tomatoes, eggplant, etc. in addition to the citrus fruits and the berries and bananas and all the other fruits, especially if you also eat seeds and nuts

  283. alpha mail August 1, 2013 at 5:31 pm #

    Now let’s review a posting by “Carol/janet”:

    Carol Newquist
    August 1, 2013 at 1:29 pm # janet, here’s my backdoorsurvival strategy tip of the day. Eat more fruits and/or vegetables and less meat….and elimnate all meats that are preserved with Sodium Nitrite; it increases substantially the risk of colorectal cancer, hence the backdoor.

    http://www.dukehealth.org/health_library/health_articles/myth-or-fact-hot-dogs-cause-cancer

    Processed meats, including hot dogs, bacon, and deli meats, are linked to increased colorectal cancer.

    Both nitrate and nitrite, however, form nitrosamines — a known carcinogen — when mixed with protein-rich foods like meats. Nitrosamines create cell damage in the body.

    Snyder says that even when eaten in moderation, hot dogs are a risky food. She points to research showing that eating 3.5 ounces of processed meat every day (24.5 ounces per week) increases the risk of colorectal cancer by 36 percent when compared to someone who eats no processed meat.

    In addition to trimming all processed meats from your diet, Snyder recommends practicing these healthy lifestyle habits to reduce colorectal cancer risk:

    Reduce alcohol consumption.
    Exercise regularly.
    Maintain a healthy weight.
    Eat more fiber.

    Consider healthier alternatives to traditional hot dogs, such as vegetarian hot dogs, or cook fruits and vegetables on the grill instead.

    ********************************

    You be the judge 😀

    • debt August 1, 2013 at 6:07 pm #

      Carol signed off as Janet up thread at 12:01 PM.

      • alpha mail August 1, 2013 at 6:26 pm #

        Time capsule continued….Asoka said (back on October 1, 3:27 AM:

        “Islam is still a religion of peace…just because some minority of the world’s one Billion Muslims engage in violence does not change the fact that Islam is a religion of peace.”

  284. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 6:11 pm #

    Putin showed he is a coward with his overreaction to Pussy Riot.

    Yes, I agree. At least he’s considering pardoning them now, but still, he’s a coward. Uncle Joe wouldn’t have gone so light. They’d be dead by now if Uncle Joe was still in charge. Like I said, he’s rolling in his grave.

    Pussy Riot is awesome. Here they are, topless, cutting down a cross with a chainsaw. Sheer brilliance, and a great set of tits.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rDo1Ml_iCM

    Russia is a hard place; those women play for keeps.

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  285. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 6:21 pm #

    janet, here’s a video from a great all-female band. I thought you would appreciate it considering the link you left earlier about Feminism.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P32tdGuYEiY

    You’re the only one here, I think, who will appreciate it…..well, you and of course, the ever bold and brash Q Schmuck.

    • ozone August 1, 2013 at 9:12 pm #

      One word review:
      Somnolent.

  286. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 6:54 pm #

    Here’s Putin’s macho PR stunt to try and convince the public he doesn’t bend over for powerful Western interests as he’s doing in the Snowden spectacle.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2379096/Vladimir-Putin-strips-waist-macho-hunting-trip.html

    “Me big man, me kill animals and fish with latest and greatest equipment and tour guides. Me put strong, vibrant beautiful women behind bars when they talk back. Me big man. Really, I am. I’m a big man. See? See how big I am? Sure, I’m getting flabby from all the vodka, but I’m still very brave. Right? Aren’t I brave? Tell me I’m brave. Please. Please tell me I’m brave and not a coward. The naked photos of me hanging all over my villa aren’t enough to convince me. You must tell me I’m brave. You must tell be you fear me. Pass the vodka. Give it to me before it’s all gone. What’s the matter with you? You could have saved some for me, asshole! Uri, go back to the SUV and grab another case of vodka. Make it snappy, you piece of shit. I’m thirsty!! I WANT MY VODKA! GET ME MY VODKA NOW OR I”LL HAVE YOU ALL SENT TO SIBERIA!! Leonid, did you remember to pack my teddy bear? What? Speak up when I’m talking to you. You did? Where is it? Please put it on my bed in its pajamas on top of the pillow. I want it to be there when I pass out tonight. I love my teddy. Which one of you laughed? Uri, was that you? It was you, you son of a bitch. You don’t have a teddy? That’s sad, really it is. Everyone should have a teddy. Leonid, order Uri a teddy from Amazon, just not the same one as me. I want mine to be unique. What’s for dinner? No, I don’t want any of this shit we just killed. I want Five Guys. Dmitry, have some Five Guys flown in from America. I want the bacon cheeseburger. Not the little hamburger, somebody did that last time and I was pissed, the regular bacon cheeseburger with two patties and a large order of the cajun-seasoned fries. Make sure it’s cajun-seasoned. Last time some numbskull got the plain and I hate the plain. Boris, come over here and lick my nipples. Pasha, it’s time for my neck rub. Come on! What the hell are you all waiting for? Let’s go! I want to see some action around here! Move it!”

    • alpha mail August 1, 2013 at 7:52 pm #

      Beautiful, just beautiful! How can anyone respond to your horse manure, you freak?

  287. alpha mail August 1, 2013 at 7:49 pm #

    So it’s official. “Carol”, “janet”, “Asoka”, “Adequatio” are all one in the same. “janet” claims to be a homemaker. How many homemakers (with a family) have the time to post 24/7 on a website? I’ve been out of school for over 6 weeks with no other responsibilities (job, family, etc.) and I still don’t have time to spend every waking moment trolling this site (not that I’d want to). Jeezus, what a sick bastard!

  288. alpha mail August 1, 2013 at 7:55 pm #

    “Here’s Putin’s macho PR stunt to try and convince the public he doesn’t bend over for powerful Western interests as he’s doing in the Snowden spectacle.”

    More gay bashing from our dear “Carol”.

  289. janet August 1, 2013 at 8:00 pm #

    So it’s official. “Carol”, “janet”, “Asoka”, “Adequatio” are all one in the same.

    “Robin Hood, Alice in Wonderland, Snow White, Peter Pan, and certain cartoon heroes like Red Ryder, Prince Valiant, and L’il Abner. I became those people, man or woman, it didn’t matter. Put on the outfit and the twentieth century disappears. Go back in time, switch gender, change my accent, change my age — no problem.”

    — Grace Slick, Somebody to Love?

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    • alpha mail August 1, 2013 at 8:13 pm #

      You’ve been caught, you dirty snake!

    • ozone August 1, 2013 at 8:52 pm #

      Classic psychopathic behavior. Don’t have an actual persona of your own (indicated by a lack of conscience, constraints and empathy)?
      Adopt somebody else’s! That’s the ticket! We can lie our way through the rest.

      I no longer wonder why you’ve pursued the ‘occupation’ that you have. You seem to actually ENJOY creating misery so that you can playfully observe the results. (I’m gonna go ahead and call that some sick shit, because I’m pretty sure that it doesn’t upset you one whit. That part of you where shame and guilt normally resides appears to be missing and [unsurprisingly] unmourned.)

      So be it; if we understand what you AREN’T (an actual empathetic human), it takes away your power to persuade or confuse.

      4-5% of the population is all it takes to steer the herd, perception-wise. You should be worried, but you probably can’t internalize that concept either.

  290. Karah August 1, 2013 at 9:19 pm #

    Comments have been turned OFF for the podcast.

    I’d like to thank those who have had encouraging words for my posting. Thanks…though I didn’t need it…it’s nice to be a woman who is appreciated for more than her breast size and emotional hysterics (in reference to other women caught on camera recently).

    I’d like to continue the conversation started by the two guys JHK and Orr, If I may, here. I don’t know much about the Ohio area other than what has been reported to me by tourists.

    Toledo has people fighting over food in the grocery store parking
    lot and shoppers need body guards and/or physical watchers to
    prevent them from shoplifting.

    Chrissie Hynd of the Pretenders is from the state and wrote a
    bluesy song about it that made the radio rotation tables;
    however, like most rockers, she made it a goal to leave there
    asap and live somewhere else of an entirely different culture and
    weather pattern (further south).

    Oberlin has about 9,000 residents and is served by Lorain, the county seat, a port town of about 70,000. Besides the usual top employers (healthcare, city, Wal-mart), STEEL dominates. For some unknown reason the steel company’s website link is malfunctioning on Wiki so here it is…

    http://www.industriasch.com.mx/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17&Itemid=464&lang=en

    They sure did benefit from NAFTA…a Republican backed initiative but most of them are Democrats and the Oberlin project specifically mentions former Pres. Clinton..

    “The City and College have signed on to become one of 18 Clinton Foundation Climate Positive Development Program cities (one of only three in the United States), thereby committing to reducing Oberlin’s greenhouse gas emissions below zero.”

    Lots of fresh water in Lake Erie; however, tornadoes happen and have wiped out the place at least once. Oberlin’s “exemplar system” is only 15 miles away (15 minutes by F150) from the coast.
    It all seems well and good since the entire county’s population is only about 300K. They have 200K more people than my county in Texas and most of us live in the county seat. It would make sense why they would feel the urgent need to set apart land for food production in order to feed their vast populations and anybody else who decides to show up….

    “The Lewis Center purifies all of its wastewater and is the first college building in the U.S. powered entirely by sunlight. But most important it became a laboratory in sustainability that is training some of the nation’s brightest and most dedicated students for careers in solving environmental problems. The story of that building is told in two books, The Nature of Design (Oxford, 2002) that Fritjof Capra called “brilliant,” and a second, Design on the Edge (MIT, 2006), that architect Sim van der Ryn describes as “powerful and inspiring.”” Doc Orr profile page.

  291. janet August 1, 2013 at 9:22 pm #

    Carol said: “You’re the only one here, I think, who will appreciate it…”

    Could it be that I’m your mirror? Beautiful!

    Such a contrast to the male haters here.

  292. Karah August 1, 2013 at 9:24 pm #

    Industry uses a lot of resources…so how much fresh water and sunlight do they need to become sustainable?

  293. janet August 1, 2013 at 9:38 pm #

    alpha mail: “You’ve been caught, you dirty snake!”

    I, Janet, can be as many people as you want to believe me to be: a student in Wisconsin, David in Olympia, DoD agent in Virginia, teenager living at home, sick bastard, dirty snake, etc.

    You guys have incredibly fertile and hateful imaginations to go with your paranoia and cynicism and misogyny. The irony is that most of you don’t have healthy marriages / families, with respect and role sharing with a loving spouse, like I do.

    Your comments are petty and off-topic. You exude sadness. I am happy and worry-free. That seems to bother you so you need to use labels like “psychopathology” or “pollyana” … whatever. I am relatively new here as a poster, though I have lurked for some time. I am not Asoka or Adequatio or Carol or Karah or Nichole. You are pathetic.

  294. alpha mail August 1, 2013 at 9:55 pm #

    Evelyn Victor replied to “asoka”s (read janet, carol, et.al. ) as follows in April 2011, Source: Clusterfuck archives. (check it out to see how she, he, it, tried to impede conversation even back then):

    Evelyn Victor replied to comment from asoka | April 2, 2011 1:37 AM
    Asoka, I find it hard to believe you can remain so rigid and continue pimping for Obama in light the revelations of his true colors. Mistreatment of Bradley, jumping ugly with whistle blowers, installing the wolves in the hen house, this latest sham in the desert…”

    ******************

    Scroll through it all. Asoka IS “Carol”, “Janet”. Absolutely unbelievable that someone could work so hard to impede intelligent conversation. And STILL manages to succeed.

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    • alpha mail August 1, 2013 at 9:57 pm #

      Ha!!! Anybody hear remember, “I contain multitudes!” Jesus, you’re a sick bastard. If I believed in God I’d pray for him to have mercy on your cancerous soul.

  295. alpha mail August 1, 2013 at 9:58 pm #

    hear = here

  296. alpha mail August 1, 2013 at 10:12 pm #

    I’m done with the “Entity” (for now). If anybody doubts my theory, go back to the archives and see the EXACT…SAME…VERBAGE from Asoka as you see from “Carol”, “Janet”. Don’t take my word for it, please! I’m the type of guy that has to find out for myself. When others here started questioning if Asoka was these characters, I held off until I did a little snooping around. You’ve been OUTED, Asoka, Adequatio, “Carol”, “Janet”!!!

  297. janet August 1, 2013 at 10:13 pm #

    Absolutely unbelievable that someone could work so hard to impede intelligent conversation.

    In case you haven’t noticed, it is impossible for anyone to impede intelligent conversation on CFN because CFN is wide open to receive intelligent comments. I am wondering why you don’t post any. Is someone somehow impeding you? Please do tell.

    Janet

    • alpha mail August 1, 2013 at 10:21 pm #

      You CORRECTY signed off as “Janet” this time, dincha, hon?

  298. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 10:22 pm #

    and see the EXACT…SAME…VERBAGE from

    It’s verbiage, and even then, you’re using the wrong word in trying to describe what your feeble mind can’t comprehend.

    janet, you’re a class act. I mean that. You handle these hateful, raping racists with grace and dignity.

    • alpha mail August 1, 2013 at 10:24 pm #

      Keep goin, babe! You’re diggin yourself in deeper and deeper! I’m loving this!

      • alpha mail August 1, 2013 at 10:26 pm #

        Every breath you take, every move you make, we’ll be watching you! Have a real nice day! ;D

  299. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 10:25 pm #

    One word review:
    Somnolent.

    Correct. It’s quite pleasant and relaxing. Beautiful music to fall to sleep to.

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  300. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 10:30 pm #

    How many homemakers (with a family) have the time to post 24/7 on a website?

    You’d be surprised. Soap Operas are a thing of the past. Posting has taken their place. Keep up with the times. You’ll be happier if you do. We are.

  301. Carol Newquist August 1, 2013 at 10:34 pm #

    Could it be that I’m your mirror? Beautiful!

    Such a contrast to the male haters here.

    Yes, like the terrorists they are, they hate us for our freedom. And they have the nerve to point fingers at Muslims. They need look no further than the tip of their nose.

  302. janet August 1, 2013 at 10:50 pm #

    Keep goin, babe!

    Babe?

    You are hereby prohibited from posting any intelligent conversation on CFN, by the powers you have vested in me. Enjoy you impotence.

  303. janet August 1, 2013 at 10:53 pm #

    CORRECTION

    Enjoy your impotence, alpha mail.

  304. janet August 1, 2013 at 11:00 pm #

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/28/arts/music/jj-cale-musician-and-songwriter-dies-at-74.html

    JJ Cale enters the Dreamtime.

    Here JJ Cale singing “After Midnight” with Eric Clapton

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WUeOEkl270

    Bon voyage!

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  305. Pucker August 1, 2013 at 11:31 pm #

    He’s sending me junk form emails again. Something about “Action August”. Sounds “Funky”. Who comes up with this rubbish? Are we still financing the Chechyns?

    It starts out “Pucker—-There are only so many shoes that I can shine on my own. I need some white Fool to come and shine my shoes.” I read somewhere that O-Man was once assigned the task of trying to infiltrate the local branch of the Black Panthers. When he started doing the Black Power Thang at home his white grandmother started freaking out. Then O-Man became a “Community Organizer” in Chicago before getting a gig at white shoe Wall Street law firm Sidley Austin, where he met Michelle who was doing low-level trademark filing work, which is largely clerical.

    “Pucker —

    There is only so much I can do on my own.

    The special interests know it, and they’re counting on you to be silent on gun violence and climate change. They hope you’re not paying attention to creating jobs or fixing our broken immigration system.

    And they plan to make the loudest noise when your members of Congress come home for August recess.

    I’m counting on you to be just as vocal — to make sure the agenda that Americans voted for last year is front and center.

    Say you’ll do at least one thing as part of OFA’s Action August in your community, no matter where you live.

    I know it’s easy to get frustrated by the pace of progress.

    But it’s not a reason to sit back and do nothing — our system only works if you play your part.

    If you don’t let your representatives know where you stand in August, we risk losing an important battle on your home turf.

    So I’m asking you to speak up — commit to do at least one thing in your community during Action August:

    http://my.barackobama.com/Commit-to-Action-August

    Thanks,

    Barack”

  306. janet August 1, 2013 at 11:34 pm #

    Karah, you ask about renewables in industry. It is happening now. Over the past twenty-five years most industrially developed nations have adopted policies to promote the shift to renewables. Almost thirty USA states have adopted Renewable Portfolio Standards (RPS), which aim to increase the share of renewables in their respective energy mix. The various promotional measures adopted across the United States and around the globe differ considerably in their approach to achieve this goal. What did you want to know about specifically?

    Janet

  307. HowardBeale August 1, 2013 at 11:35 pm #

    James,
    I give thanks for your presence on the planet every week. Really. Thank you for offering your perspective in such a hostile environment.

    And…thanks for the exposure to Dr. Orr. I wasn’t familiar with him, and he has inspired me–in a single podcast and Youtube video (http://youtu.be/0FgcxHNuWik)–nearly as much as you have over the years.

    Respectfully,
    H. Lee Grove

  308. goat1001 August 2, 2013 at 6:51 am #

    Finally getting around to it:

    “Jury finds Goldman executive liable for misleading investors ”

    ‘Bout time…

  309. Rollo Tomasi August 2, 2013 at 7:31 am #

    That Putin skit you created was pure comic genius Carol. That’s talented writing. If you’re not already hooked up in Hollywood I would like to help in making some connections. For example I have strong connections with Larry David and I think you would make a fine edition to his writing staff for Curb Your Enthusiasm which will have a 9th season and you could be part of it. Let me know your thoughts. You can contact me at rollotomasi@gmail.com. Hope to hear from you. ~Rollo

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  310. ozone August 2, 2013 at 8:22 am #

    A market that can’t survive without QE stimulus.
    That’s pretty much the highest level of extending and pretending that a ‘free market’ can reach.

    An interesting analysis from way back in the very beginning of June. (Hell, that’s last century isn’t it? Seems that way; things are moving rapidly now.)

    http://theautomaticearth.com/Finance/what-if-stimulus-is-self-defeating.html

    I expect the usual hatchet job of the professional denialists, but go ahead and read it for yourself rather than relying on their ‘kill-the-messenger’ obfuscation and avalanche-post diversions.

  311. Pucker August 2, 2013 at 8:30 am #

    Is the Guy McPherson blog being blocked?

    http://www.guymcpherson.com/

  312. Q. Shtik August 2, 2013 at 9:05 am #

    http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=jeYscnFpEyA

    • Janos Skorenzy August 2, 2013 at 2:07 pm #

      Why isn’t there a 300 million person march? We aren’t a people anymore. The minority groups like the way things are going since the Government legally robs Whites and gives to them. The man is good but do you agree with all of it? Even when he says “they” sent our jobs overseas? That’s pure Capitalism and the “they” in question were just following the supreme dictate of profit for the shareholders. I don’t even know where the Founders would feel about that since they were often merchants themselves. It’s obviously ruinous but perhaps the system was designed for the merchants and by the merchants.

      • anti dod August 2, 2013 at 9:02 pm #

        Via Brfeitbart:
        ‘They’ want Amnesty for 15 million or more illegals. And than family reunification which will likely (by all estimates I’ve read) bring in between 35-45 million more within 10 -20 years. That’s ” Family Reunification “alone.

        And than they want 2,500 more Afghans on top of the 1,500 they bring in every year total 4,000.

        Plus 70,000 to 140,000 other so called refugees

        Plus an additional 600,000 on top of the 1.2 million already legally allowed to immigrate here every single year.

        All in the Amnesty Bill.

        There is no other conclusion than they are planning on destroying this Country, once a great beacon of hope for the world.

        Expect more Riots, more mob violence etc. etc. and it will be White peoples fault. Certainly not the First ” White African ” President of the US or the congressional Black Caucus.

        Shocking: Black Teen Unemployment Rate 41.6%
        Friday’s jobs report was disappointing, but it also contained a truly heartbreaking statistic. Black teen unemployment is a shocking 41.6%.
        In July last year, the unemployment was considerably lower, at 36%. That almost half of black teens who want to work can’t find jobs is a stain on Obama’s economic policies.
        This isn’t a numbers trick. This isn’t a rate based on the whole black teen population in the country. This is the proportion of the black teen population that is looking for work but can’t find a job. Just in March, the number was eight points lower at 33%. The white teen unemployment rate is half the black rate, although still high at 20%.

  313. Q. Shtik August 2, 2013 at 10:12 am #

    Canadian’s Version of David Letterman’s Top 10

    This is Canada’s Top Ten List of America’s Stupidity.

    Of course we look like idiots … because we are …

    10) Only in America … Could politicians talk about the greed of the rich at a $35,000.00 a plate campaign fund-raising event.

    9) Only in America … Could people claim that the government still discriminates against black Americans when they have a black President, a black Attorney General and roughly 20% of the federal workforce is black while only 14% of the population is black. 40+% of all federal entitlements goes to black Americans 3X the rate that go to whites, 5X the rate that go to Hispanics!

    8) Only in America … Could they have had the two people most responsible for our tax code, Timothy Geithner (the head of the Treasury Department) and Charles Rangel (who once ran the Ways and Means Committee), BOTH turn out to be tax cheats who are in favor of higher taxes.

    7) Only in America … Can they have terrorists kill people in the name of Allah and have the media primarily react by fretting that Muslims might be harmed by the backlash.

    6) Only in America … Would they make people who want to legally become American citizens wait for years in their home countries and pay tens of thousands of dollars for the privilege, while they discuss letting anyone who sneaks into the country illegally just ‘magically’ become American citizens.

    5) Only in America … Could the people who believe in balancing the budget and sticking by the country’s Constitution be thought of as “extremists.”

    4) Only in America … Could you need to present a driver’s license to cash a check or buy alcohol, but not to vote.

    3) Only in America … Could people demand the government investigate whether oil companies are gouging the public because the price of gas went up when the return on equity invested in a major U.S. Oil company (Marathon Oil) is less than half of a company making tennis shoes (Nike).

    2) Only in America … Could the government collect more tax dollars from the people than any nation in recorded history, still spend a Trillion dollars more than it has per year – for total spending of $7-Million PER MINUTE, and complain that it doesn’t have nearly enough money.

    1) Only in America … Could the rich people – who pay 86% of all income taxes – be accused of not paying their “fair share” by people who don’t pay any income taxes at all.

    • anti dod August 2, 2013 at 9:06 pm #

      Thanks…see sites like ‘Crimes of the Times’ and ‘Anti White Media’ for information on WHY folks are so dumbed down.

      110? million on ‘Food aid’. Who is paying taxes? Whites. How many are paying taxes? 50 million support 200 ? million via welfare.

  314. janet August 2, 2013 at 10:44 am #

    40+% of all federal entitlements goes to black Americans 3X the rate that go to whites

    Q., I guess you don’t consider the transfer of wealth from taxpayers to the 1% in the form of tax breaks and loopholes, because those are not “entitlements” although they are baked into the law and entitle the wealthy to benefits.

    More importantly, YOU ARE SPREADING LIES AGAIN, Q.

    It’s conventional wisdom that the poor, and especially more minorities, get the most out of America’s “safety net.” But recent data shows the reverse is true. Most entitlements are received by the elderly, disabled, or working white households, and minority households receive disproportionately little from the public purse.

    Analysis from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities reveals that the poorest fifth of American households received 32% government benefits distributed in 2010. The top fifth of income earners receive 10% of benefits – most likely through social security.

    The study also found that poor African Americans receive disproportionately less welfare than poor whites. Black Americans make up 22% of the poor, but overall receive 14% of government benefits.

    The elderly received around half of benefits paid out. Nonelderly disabled people received 20% of the 2010 entitlements pot, while 18% of government benefits go to working people on lower incomes.

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  315. Q. Shtik August 2, 2013 at 11:34 am #

    Analysis from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities reveals that the poorest fifth of American households received 32% government benefits distributed in 2010.

    You may be able to fool SOME people with your sophistries but you can’t fool me.

    The italicized sentence above is supposed to refute the statement that “40+% of all federal entitlements goes to black Americans 3X the rate that go to whites” but there is no information as to the number of whites, blacks, Hispanics and others within “the poorest fifth of American households” nor do we know the average number of people within those households. Perhaps those poor households contain more people per household than the other 80% of households.

    The point is, your statement contains inadequate information to refute the statement I posted.

    The study also found that poor African Americans receive…

    Why are you separating “poor” African Americans from “all” African Americans. The statement contained in my post made no such distinction.

    The elderly received around half of benefits paid out. Nonelderly disabled people received…

    All very interesting but how many in these groups are black, white, Hispanic and other?

    More important Ja’Soka, you are an incorrigible liar and we’re on to you.

  316. janet August 2, 2013 at 12:49 pm #

    Q, you may be able to fool SOME people with your racist cant, but I’m on to your deception. The distribution of entitlement benefits stands in sharp contrast to the distribution of benefits for tax expenditures, which former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan has called “tax entitlements.” And the lop-sided distribution is to the rich, not to Blacks.

    The Tax Policy Center finds that under current tax policy:

    The top fifth of the population receives 66 percent of tax-expenditure benefits (compared to 10 percent of entitlement benefits).

    The middle 60 percent of the population receives a little over 31 percent of tax-expenditure benefits (compared to 58 percent of entitlement benefits).

    The bottom fifth receives just 2.8 percent of tax-expenditure benefits (compared to 32 percent of entitlement benefits).

    The top 1 percent of the population receives 23.9 percent of tax-expenditure benefits — more than eight times as much as the bottom fifth of the population, and nearly as much as the middle 60 percent of the population.

    As a racist, you want to talk about BLACKS, instead of about the small percentage (2.8%) of tax-expenditure benefits the poor bottom fifth receive. You completely ignore the 66% of tax-expenditure benefits the top 20% receive.

    Nary a peep out of you about 66% to the rich. You, as a racist, want to focus on the 2.8% to the poor and claim most of that goes to Blacks.

  317. UnstoppableFarceImmovableAbject August 2, 2013 at 1:48 pm #

    “Thoughts (and fears) about it have been replaced by a kind of grand redemption fantasy that bears the same relation to economics that masturbation has to pornography. One way to sum up the current psychological state of the nation is that an awful lot of people who ought to know better don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground anymore.” -JHK

    Very sharp statement from Jim this week, and I have just the interview that demonstrates his observation, at least as concerns this sense of newfound bravado and confidence demonstrated by our cherished Bankster leaders. Sorry it’s a bit dated.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/video/bank-of-america-ceo-brian-moynihan-eOSDi622SqeAAc5TAxolvg.html

    ‘Zone, and I think BRH also, touched upon an interesting corollary theme, too, the idea that the psychopathic charisma of a few is leading the hive mind down this rebuilt road of destruction – the supposed 3rd industrial revolution, but the question is when does the average citizen have to take responsibility? If it only takes five percent of a population to either negatively or positively influence the whole of society, then where are all the other bright people of conscious in the world? Where are the non-psychopathic leaders, and why doesn’t the public gravitate to them instead? And I’m not talking about charismatic soothsayers with big hearts and frequently updated blogs; I’m talking about the charismatic brawlers with big balls and thangs that go bang.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk

    I take a slightly different view from believing that its the failure of American group think in general and actually a specific failure of the ordinary individual to challenge hierarchical authority in favor of easy comfort. I won’t drag out this point because it unfortunately requires blaming the perpetual middle-class-victimization-mentality, which to me plays right into the Grand Strategy of divide and conquer propaganda, and it works so predictably in this country. Right or Left thinking says it all; one is always being jerked-off or jerked-around by the other, so they say. But each is sure to bring their own bottles of lotion to the party.

    I also got a chuckle from Q’s video submission earlier, which was a well stated rally cry to “We the People” to finally announce their mad-as-hell-revolutionary-spirit for a 3 million man march upon Washington. Fat chance, right? At this point, if the average Joes out there haven’t come across enough examples of blatant, naked corruption to incite revolution, violent or otherwise, then they never will. The Tea Party ended and the Mad Hatter went the fuck home, and the Occupy hippies are having great success organizing Mcdonald’s employees to unionize. That’s all the people got in ’em, I’m afraid.

    In the interview presented first, BOA’s CEO Brian Moynihan proudly epitomizes why collapse has become a taboo topic of late as he gives all the proof of American’s complicit duplicity one needs when he lovingly refers to BOA’s true source of renewed global prominence – the customer base. Moreover, the idea that the gubbamint’s “stimulus” has aided the banks in erasing the fraudulent assets in courteous reach around fashion is confirmed as he explains how it has helped the bank(s) begin this new wave of “organic growth” to begin creating new commodities markets abroad, and importantly, why the customers are still behind (it) them.

    And that’s the rub I’m trying to figure out. Now that the MBSs have been essentially removed from balance sheets, though any talk of Fed tapering immediately tanks the markets, then what’s the big problem? What, is all this talk of new energy abundance being tested simultaneously and being shown to be a load of glorious bullshit? Is all this talk of miraculous new tech not generating enough momentum in the commodities market yet – will it ever? What are the indicators I should be looking for other than energy prices? Are those the best measures? And is the timeline for it all arbitrary? Today, many are saying will see the collapse come Winter, but I don’t understand why this is more or less true.

    Things that make me go hmm.

    -UFIA

    • Janos Skorenzy August 2, 2013 at 2:15 pm #

      The people who could have saved our Country were slandered as “Fascists” for generations by your kind. And indeed they were, but that’s a good thing. The Men of Iron would have imprisoned banksters and deported illegal immigrants. What’s not to love? But you wanted the softness of lies, cheap labor, and the grotesque empowerment of minorities so you could feel morally superior to your brothers. Now you have made your bed so lie in it.

      • UnstoppableFarceImmovableAbject August 2, 2013 at 2:29 pm #

        HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Arguing with phantoms as usual, yank-O. You and Ca’net represent everything that’s wrong with the dominant paradigm and why it needs to collapse, even if the day doesn’t come as predicted.

        Carry on, sir.

        • Janos Skorenzy August 2, 2013 at 2:58 pm #

          Did you not slander Joe McCarthy? And did not he turn out to be right about everything – his only error was in underestimating the Communist influence.

          Yours is the dominant paradigm. The future, if there is to be one, belongs to me.

        • ozone August 2, 2013 at 7:34 pm #

          Ah-boy, the “I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I?” retort yet again.
          These entities really are one-trick ponies.
          (I suspect their next ‘job opportunity’ is going to be a bit more risky than keyboard clackin’.)

    • ozone August 2, 2013 at 8:27 pm #

      Yessir, hmmm!
      Sometimes it’s better to have possession of the urgent questions than easy/pat answers that are nothing but empty bromides. (The latter seems to be all that’s left to our Fearless Leader.)

      However, in regard to this part:

      “If it only takes five percent of a population to either negatively or positively influence the whole of society, then where are all the other bright people of conscience in the world? Where are the non-psychopathic leaders, and why doesn’t the public gravitate to them instead? And I’m not talking about charismatic soothsayers with big hearts and frequently updated blogs; I’m talking about the charismatic brawlers with big balls and thangs that go bang.”

      It’s my opinion that they’re keeping their heads down and their powder dry. We see deprivation and close-to-the-bone living in some sectors, while in others, the opulence and free spending continues. The scales are some ways from being tipped in a decisive manner that will allow small-hold independence to become more than a pleasant thought and force it into the realm of a necessity for survival.
      No one wants to be the first to proclaim that the empire has no legitimacy in a manner that provokes instant execution. People still feel they have too much to lose, and their conditioning tells them that they can yet ‘get ahead’ if they just find the right rulebook to play by.

      It’s all about patience and holding out in the face of blatant theft, coercive violence and treachery until fear is overtaken by outrage.
      Til then, stoicism is going to be required in the face of massive societal insult.

      Watch who gets bribed; how much, with what and why.
      Watch who gets lied to; how often, with what tactics/content and why.

      Even with protestations of “It’s more complicated than that!”, these will be the clues to the accumulating tipping points. (Just one person’s opinion, mind you. Grains and tons of salt, etc., etc.)

      • UnstoppableFarceImmovableAbject August 3, 2013 at 12:09 am #

        Thanks, ‘Zone. Always good to hear from one of few bright men of *conscience* (thanks for not pingin’ me with that, btw).

        Though I’m not sure we can place the sort of burden I feel you’re alluding to upon the shoulders of those few stoics, not any more.

        I’m not suggesting capitulation either but rather genuinely letting go. To be clear, fuck the mud hut mentality, too. Not even JHK would truly return to nature, let alone genuine permaculture farming; just look at his aesthetically beautiful garden – all perfectly fenced and totalitarian like. I have the beauty aesthetic at work in my ego as well, so to each his own design. Nor am I offering a flighty fantasy for a better way forward like the fukin’ Asoka twerp constantly sells. Just sharing that I’m finally beginning to understand for myself what letting go of my own desire to win means. Just look at Yuck-O; this dipshit could not bare to be proven wrong about any contemplation of himself, never mind the question of could he truly bask in the light of self-actualization, else his Vampire ass suffer instant incineration. This is why he has to constantly introduce and torch scarecrows with out of the blue remarks even he doesn’t understand.

        Also, I believe the type of malicious power these stoics are up against has been too concentrated for far too long. I mean, is there any such thing as conventional warfare anymore? I’m not in favor of blowing smoke up soldier’s asses with fairy tales of heroism, only to witness their lifelong shame as they wrestle with the anguish that they possibly believed in a bunch of lies. What exactly are these stoics to fight and die for then, Freedom Fries?

        Ah, but I see I’m not understanding this whole “when the timing is right” sensibility. I guess we’ll have to wait and see when “We The Democratic Commentators” decide to shit or get off the pot and do the heavy lifting for themselves, rather than wait til the hair on their nuts is white while decrying the stupidity of the young for not wanting to pay for their lifetime of physical and mental self-abuse. Truth is, if I can dare use the phrase, I think you’re 100% percent correct when you describe a rude awakening for which The People have already decided to go ‘head and hit snooze. Meanwhile, your thesis/hypothesis about the effectiveness and the power of steadfast resolve and true blue ugly, dirty revolt is already underway in the ME, and perhaps we agree on how that’s turning out.

        I understand individuals like you, ‘Zone. You’re a good dude who likely didn’t greedily participate in the decline of culture like most of these shitheads who constantly argue the same cautiously narrow points week for week.You provided me many a resource and for that I’m grateful. This is just the best I can do with it all for now.

        -GooFIA

        • ozone August 3, 2013 at 10:08 am #

          …”Just sharing that I’m finally beginning to understand for myself what letting go of my own desire to win means.” -UFIA

          A bit out of context, but I completely identify with this sentence.
          The Onion headline left a trace of this attitude: “Black Man Given Nation’s Worst Job”.
          Too right! What is there to ‘win’ when surrounded by rot and corruption? Disassociation from it would seem to be the healthy ‘option’ (NOT an option ever alluded to by those in charge!), but that couldn’t be considered any kind of ‘victory’ as you’ve cut yourself off from the officially sanctioned pipeline of goodies.

          To be sure, I’ve done my share of damage in helping the present paradigm ‘be all that it can be’ by tearing up a lot of perfectly useful arable land for the purpose of giant unnecessary single-family dwellings. I was never interested in being wealthy though; I could never get my head around striving mightily for more shit than I could ever use.
          (I had a visceral reaction to the destruction of houses with perfectly good ‘bones’ being torn down by excavator in “Detropia”. Just my work history, I guess; and having an idea of what those materials cost in the first place.)

        • Nastarana August 3, 2013 at 11:13 am #

          UnstoppableFarceImmovableAbject,

          I love the puns in your online name. I did not see them until I typed in the name and then checked for spelling. (sigh)I always was a bit slow on the uptake.

          There may be a bit more heavy lifting going on than you or I can see, only the lifters are not interested in displaying their efforts and successes in public venues where agents of the corporatocracy abound, taking names and addresses.

          Did you perhaps ever read Up the Organization!? In one short chapter, the author advises that if you find a way to eliminate pollution, you should just quietly go about eliminating pollution, state by state. The mistake, says this author, many folks make is that they immediately have a big press conference in which they announce to the world that they have discovered the means to eliminate pollution (or some other social evil). The press conference serves as notice to everyone who has a vested interest in keeping things just the way they are that they had better get cracking.

          I have always thought that a big mistake made by some of the earlier important movements in this country was that many courted publicity too eagerly and too often. A lot of money, time and energy can be wasted trying to get public opinion on your side and “reaching out” to “like-minded people”, and then, all too often, the effort backfires as your enemies take notice of what you have going. Far too many folks are still in the mindset of “I am a nice person, I cannot possibly have enemies. If we just Talk To People…(and remind them about how they are going to lose money and power when your well meaning project comes to fruition)… I think maybe the stoic souls might have learned some wisdom and are not interested in having their efforts sabotaged by fools.

          If you are doing good things, the like minded people will sooner or later find you, see for example the Hershberger trial in Wisconsin, home of creeping fascism, in which a jury refused to convict an Amish farmer who was accused of selling raw milk, to his won buyers club, without a permit. Now don’t get me wrong, I have no interest in raw milk–my grandmother lost her youngest child to staff infection traced to one cow in one Eugene OR. dairy, and she herself had to be hospitalized for a lengthy period while Drs treated the symptoms of the staff–but if people want to buy it, and if they understand the risks involved and if the dairy is scrupulously clean and rigorously inspected, as the Hershberger dairy seems to be, I don’t see why not. Talk about nanny state interference in people’s lives!

          Farmers and their supporters came from near and far to the trial venue to support Vernon Hershberger, something which doubtless did not go unnoticed by the jury.

          If you think liberals were bad about nanny state interference, wait till you see what corporate fascism has in store for us!

  318. Janos Skorenzy August 2, 2013 at 1:55 pm #

    Bravo. The letter rings with clarity of the Greek Orators of old. But it’s all lost on liberals and Negroes. To these groups, Truth is just what benefits them or fits their narrative of self glorification. The whole Civil Rights Movement is now revealed to be just a farce, a tale told by an idiot. Blacks aren’t worthy of such trouble, and a lot of Liberals probably knew that but did it anyway to make themselves look good.

    • BackRowHeckler August 3, 2013 at 10:33 am #

      Snowden should come back here and face the music while he still can. He has a good amount of support; at least half the country backs him up. But as time passes that support will erode and he will be on his own. He’ll get a fair trial. Manning was under military discipline and the UCMJ. Snowden will be tried in a regular federal criminal court, a big difference.

      –BRH

  319. Karah August 2, 2013 at 2:06 pm #

    “Consumer spending comprises 71% of the US economy in 2013.[319] In August 2010, the American labor force consisted of 154.1 million people. With 21.2 million people, government is the leading field of employment. The largest private employment sector is health care and social assistance, with 16.4 million people. About 12% of workers are unionized, compared to 30% in Western Europe.[320] The World Bank ranks the United States first in the ease of hiring and firing workers.[321] In 2009, the United States had the third highest labor productivity per person in the world, behind Luxembourg and Norway. It was fourth in productivity per hour, behind those two countries and the Netherlands.[322]”

    “When iron is smelted from its ore by commercial processes, it contains more carbon than is desirable. To become steel, it must be melted and reprocessed to reduce the carbon to the correct amount, at which point other elements can be added.”

    “electric arc furnaces (EAF) are a common method of reprocessing scrap metal to create new steel. They can also be used for converting pig iron to steel, but they use a lot of electricity (about 440 kWh per metric ton), and are thus generally only economical when there is a plentiful supply of cheap electricity.
    -Wikipedia (Same-page-edia!)

    Welding and steel work is as important in most counties as healthcare and farming. It’s been around for 4,000 years in order to produce durable tools used in all other human activities (fine cutlery, tilling the land and drilling). A major bi-product of smelting is CARBON. How are they going to get around that? Recycling? How will they recycle that which leaves the area?

    Just like most people of my generation don’t remember the oil crises of the 70s, much more so the 1940s rationing of precious things like silk and metal. You will not find a civilian car manufactured during the war years. Leading to the production of plastic alternatives like nylon, tupperware and fiberglass. I would describe our current age as “economic warfare” due to the realization that life has become more expensive and difficult to sustain in the developed parts of the world for various reasons and people must fight for the continuance of their way of life to which they have become accustomed. The simple way of life that has always been for 4,000 years has been pushed to the side and JHK is promoting a kind of reduction in consumption and land grabbing in his fiction. His books are another form of propaganda that promotes fantasy over and above reality and exaggerates problems in order to raise awareness.

    Just like those who live by the sword die by it, so too will those who live for the advancement of the dollar. They will have their hopes and dreams for the future rise and fall with the markets. Putting trust in man-made institutions like higher learning (-isms) or emotion based faiths will not lead to sustainability because they are disassociated from the day to day activities of human life governed by the family head and ignore the practice of individual accountability through an one’s practical application of ancient truths (honesty, patience, principled love, integrity).

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  320. janet August 2, 2013 at 2:10 pm #

    UFIA: I’m talking about the charismatic brawlers with big balls and thangs that go bang.

    You are just the type to support the corn-pone dictator that JHK has warned us about. Charisma and violence, just like all those action movies have programmed you to respect.

    • UnstoppableFarceImmovableAbject August 2, 2013 at 2:20 pm #

      Haha, nice try Ca’net.

      My lazy ass will always be parked on the sidelines or, in case TS actually does HTF, then hidden behind piles of dead democrats and republicans used as sandbags; better yet, tucked in the shadows with a ghillie suit and a scoped rifle.

      No stake in the game, kiddo. Just gonna ride til the wheels fall off without becoming a hedonist. Not gonna bust my ass to support the pudgy ineffectual curmudgeons in a WMBH scenario, either. My sisters and parents and a few close friends will be fed, best as I can ensure it, but fuck the rest of ya’ll, especially the youze out there. Life is worth losing.

  321. Carol Newquist August 2, 2013 at 2:25 pm #

    The people who could have saved our Country were slandered as “Fascists” for generations by your kind.

    Spoken like a true fascist…or is it communist? According to Janet, they’re one and the same. Janos is a communist via fascism.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GabfmvQ8s0A&feature=player_embedded

  322. Q. Shtik August 2, 2013 at 2:34 pm #

    You, as a racist, want to focus on the 2.8% to the poor and claim most of that goes to Blacks.

    When cornered like a rat, say “you raciss.”

    You have changed gears by discussing “tax-expenditure benefits” (whatever that is) when the original statement which YOU chose to attack from Canada’s Letterman-like Top Ten List of America’s Stupidity concerned “entitlements.” Further, you are very bad with numbers; 40% is not most.

    Your entire post is a mish-mash (mosh?) of data points of which I have no knowledge and which, in any case, have nothing to do with the issue YOU originally raised. You are now trying to re-direct the conversation to a place you like better and feel is somewhat less recognizable as sophistry.

    Perhaps we can agree on one thing: the dollar value received by the rich is far less than what they pay in in income taxes. The dollar value received by the poor is approximately infinitely more than THEY pay in in income taxes since they effectively pay no income taxes.

    • anti dod August 2, 2013 at 9:10 pm #

      Worse that ‘posting’ to a wall is posting to a liar.

  323. Carol Newquist August 2, 2013 at 2:37 pm #

    The letter rings with clarity of the Greek Orators of old.

    Is Lon Snowden related to Lon Chaney? They’re the only two “Lons” I’ve ever come across.

    Lon meaning and name origin

    Lon \
    lon\ as a boy’s name is a variant of Alonzo (Spanish, Italian), Lawrence (Latin), Lonnie (Old German) and Lunn (Irish, Gaelic), and the meaning of Lon is “from Laurentum; ready for battle; strong, warlike”.

    Warlike? That’s a good “American” name since “America” likes war so much. Eighty percent of all “American” males should be named Lon. Hell, eighty percent of “American” females should be named Lon also. Imagine greetings. The inflection would take on much greater significance in attempts to differentiate what little there is to differentiate. I wonder if Q Schmuck’s name IRL is Lon? If not, it should be since he’s been on the warlike military dole for the majority of his life.

    • Janos Skorenzy August 2, 2013 at 3:01 pm #

      Yes, women want to join the Military – for the benefits and as a “career”. But to fight? Not if they can help it. Luckily for them the top brass is going along with this farce – lowering the standards as predicted. Just like Academics do for Blacks. Indeed the two groups have much in common: mendacity, selfishness, stupidity, etc.

      http://www.the-spearhead.com/2013/07/29/generals-cave-on-standards-as-politicians-demand-less-effective-military/

    • Janos Skorenzy August 2, 2013 at 6:10 pm #

      Ridicule instead of trying (you would fail) to critique the man’s argument. Pure Alinsky. Face it, Snowden is a Hero and our Elite are tyrants.

      • BackRowHeckler August 3, 2013 at 11:02 am #

        The consensus seems to be that large scale wars as occurred in 1861, 1914 and 1939 are a thing of the past. I’m not so sure. What will happen when large numbers of 19 year old girls, fighting with army and marine infantry units, fall into the hands of a Chinese, North Korean or Russian enemy? Has this been thought out? In the first Gulf War in 1993 there were 2 female POWs; both were gang raped. Multiply that by 10 thousand, or a hundred thousand. Wait ’till some attractive young coed, lured into the army by the promise of generous educational benefits and posted to a front line unit, gets captured by barely literate, brutal Taliban, Mongolian, Chinese (you name it) soldiers. Will the women’s caucus in the Senate come to her aid? Will Nancy Pelosi register a complaint with the UN? This is something that has never been tried in recorded human history. I suppose we’ll see how it works out. Maybe in the US the laws of nature do not apply (in the land where men marry men and women marry women) and we are just special enough to pull it off.

        BRH

      • Nastarana August 3, 2013 at 11:22 am #

        Snowdon is likely a CIA plant. Did he reveal anything we did not already know? No, he did not.

  324. Carol Newquist August 2, 2013 at 2:42 pm #

    That Putin skit you created was pure comic genius Carol. That’s talented writing.

    Thanks for the compliment, Rollo. I’ll email you and we can discuss. Until then, enjoy the show.

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    • Q. Shtik August 2, 2013 at 4:01 pm #

      Why don’t you just inform Rollo that the Putin thing was a copy and paste job.

      I actually didn’t think you’d have the brass balls to claim it as your own handiwork. Silly me.

      • Nastarana August 3, 2013 at 11:55 am #

        Do you seriously think Rollo cares about originality.

        If it sells, sell it!

  325. janet August 2, 2013 at 2:43 pm #

    Karah says: “… people must fight for the continuance of their way of life to which they have become accustomed. The simple way of life that has always been for 4,000 years has been pushed to the side and JHK is promoting a kind of reduction in consumption…”

    NO! We cannot continue our “way of life” because we are destroying the planet which sustains us. We have to simplify. YES! JHK is promoting a reduction in consumption. It is mandatory. We cannot continue consuming as we do, and relying upon long distance freight transport, to provide the 1,000 mile+ salads.

    Air freight and long distance highway freight consume large amounts of high energy density liquid fuels that “renewables” cannot replace. We can use renewables to live. We cannot use renewables to continue our rapacious consumption and destruction of the earth.

    Alternative renewable sources of energy have to be utilized in a decentralized reorganization of society. JHK speaks of this almost every week. As JHK repeated this week: “To put it as simply as possible, the main task before this society is to change the way we live.” Not replace fossil fuels with renewables. No! That is not possible because of our level of wasteful consumption. Change the way we live. Simplify. Listen to JHK.

    • Karah August 3, 2013 at 1:10 am #

      Who determines what is wasteful?
      If people can afford to pay for those 1,000 mile salads…let them.
      The salad isn’t being wasted unless it went that far for no purpose.
      Then there’s the threat of that salad being contaminated and ALL of it must be destroyed. No one said we had to eat that salad because it would be a waste not to eat it after all the work that went into growing and transporting it. However, it would be a waste if the salad could have been saved with a proper bleach rinse, instead, it was boycotted out of unnecessary fear of illness and someone decided it was too expensive to rinse it.

      Why should it bother me what others decide to do with their lives, resources and money?
      It’s okay to express ones opinion; however, it’s not okay to make it dogma…that’s fascism isn’t it?

      I think what we’re really discussing here is independence and self sufficiency for those that don’t want to be a part of the larger society. Life is complicated – period. Everyone has different reasons for not following the crowds and some of the reasons are moral and some are not.
      There’s nothing wrong with being rich; however, there is something wrong with being rich due to exploiting resources (people included). Yet…they’re being allowed to because people know it can’t be changed if they want to live independent of a small farm community.

      • Nastarana August 3, 2013 at 11:39 am #

        If people can pay for those 1,000 mile salads …let them.” Right, especially when there is money to be made in the middleman business.

        Look, what a nation’s agricultural sector is for is to feed the population. The health, strength and vigor or the population depend in large part, on the food they eat. And we all know that virtue rarely flourishes among people who are hungry, malnourished, feeble, and subjected to slow poisoning. If you want a healthy, vigorous population, centralization of the Ag. sector DOESN’T WORK. It did not work for the Romans, with their latifundiae, it did not work for the Soviets, with their collectivization, and it is not working for us with our capitalist doctrine of Get Big or Get Out.

        • Karah August 3, 2013 at 3:16 pm #

          So…if I’m not part of the elite then I have two choices:

          1) debt slavery

          2) pauperism

          :-S

          • Karah August 7, 2013 at 11:33 am #

            http://www.mainstreet.com/article/career/students/gen-y/cost-adulthood-194082?puc=unitedonli&cm_ven=UNITEDONLI

            The Cost of Adulthood

            “the over one trillion dollars in student loan debt crimps borrowers’ credit and hampers their ability to secure mortgages and auto loans. With over 45% of all 25 year-olds holding some student loan debt, it’s a serious generational question…

            Of course, this assumes you still view home or car ownership as desirable goals; a recent Pew Research study shows our generation’s appetite for these has decreased significantly post-recession. Still, Ulzheimer says, the cost of adulthood –mortgage and all- can have its rewards.

            “The impact of having a mortgage on credit scores is generally good, as long as you’re making your payments on time,” he says. “And, because a mortgage is an installment loan the downside is very limited. Installment debt just doesn’t do much to your scores.””

            The intellectual activities being proposed here is not how our world really operates. The steady payment all hinges on producing something of value which involves hard work on SOMEBODY’s part. All the institutions of our American society is designed to exploit people. Whether you’re of the labor or management classes makes no difference. We’re seeing that with the evaporation of the middle (management level) classes. These are the prime movers of an unsustainable middle-man way of existence. The bucks just flow through them to someone else.

  326. janet August 2, 2013 at 2:55 pm #

    Perhaps we can agree on one thing: the dollar value received by the rich is far less than what they pay in in income taxes. The dollar value received by the poor is approximately infinitely more than THEY pay in in income taxes since they effectively pay no income taxes.

    No, Q., we cannot agree on that. The tax system transfers wealth from lower income people to the wealthy — Social Security tax is paid on wage income up to $106,000 at a rate of 7.65%. An individual making $50,000 per year has $3825 taken out of his wages. An individual making $2.5 million has $8109 taken out of his wages, for a net tax rate of .00325%. The lower paid person pays a rate 2,354 times HIGHER than the millionaire.

  327. janet August 2, 2013 at 2:57 pm #

    Q said: Perhaps we can agree on one thing: the dollar value received by the rich is far less than what they pay in in income taxes. The dollar value received by the poor is approximately infinitely more than THEY pay in in income taxes since they effectively pay no income taxes.

    No, Q., we cannot agree on that. The tax system transfers wealth from lower income people to the wealthy — Social Security tax is paid on wage income up to $106,000 at a rate of 7.65%. An individual making $50,000 per year has $3825 taken out of his wages. An individual making $2.5 million has $8109 taken out of his wages, for a net tax rate of .00325%. The lower paid person pays a rate 2,354 times HIGHER than the millionaire.

  328. janet August 2, 2013 at 3:03 pm #

    Q said: Perhaps we can agree on one thing: the dollar value received by the rich is far less than what they pay in in income taxes. The dollar value received by the poor is approximately infinitely more than THEY pay in in income taxes since they effectively pay no income taxes.

    According to the IRS, the super wealthy paid an effective tax rate of 16.6% on their average income of $344.8 MILLION, a tax rate slightly lower than the middle class tax rate, because of loopholes, capital gains and other tax gimmicks that favor the wealthy. Wealth redistribution is from the poor to the rich. Lowering taxes on the wealthy and shifting the burden onto the middle class involves a wealth transfer (that’s a redistribution of wealth, Q.) from the lower and middle class to the wealthy.

    • Q. Shtik August 2, 2013 at 3:21 pm #

      The answer is to do away with ALL income based taxes – individual and corporate – and apply a flat rate consumption tax. Also, do away with ALL subsidies/preferences both foreign and domestic.

  329. janet August 2, 2013 at 3:20 pm #

    Q., you are being deceptive in pretending you don’t know what tax entitlements for the rich are. The tax rates are constantly changing because the ultra-wealthy have always felt entitled to pay LESS in taxes than ordinary working Americans; so all throughout the history of the IRS they have petitioned (lobbied) Congress for special provisions in the tax code (deductions, exemptions, deferments, allowances, depreciations, etc.) to have themselves pay less (as a percentage of their personal income) in taxes than we do.

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    • Q. Shtik August 2, 2013 at 3:23 pm #

      See my post at 3:21 PM above.

  330. Q. Shtik August 2, 2013 at 3:55 pm #

    Q., you are being deceptive in pretending you don’t know what tax entitlements for the rich are.

    Read carefully, this is what I said:

    “tax-expenditure benefits” (whatever that is)

    YOU are the one who used the words “tax-expenditure benefits.”

  331. Q. Shtik August 2, 2013 at 4:54 pm #

    An individual making $2.5 million has $8109 taken out of his wages, for a net tax rate of .00325%.

    God, it is so frustrating discussing numbers and percentages with someone inept with numbers and percentages. $8,109 is .325% of $2,500,000.

    But putting aside your lack of understanding of the % sign, why do you feel ALL income should be taxed at the 7.65% rate? (Note, 7.65% is the same as .0765. When you drop the % sign you move the decimal two spaces to the left.) Since time immemorial the politicians you love so much, in their infinite wisdom, recognize that there should be a limit on the base to which the rate is applied. But commie Ja’Soka sees it otherwise.

    If highly paid people should pay 7.65% on income over $106,000 should their employer ALSO pay the same additional tax as they do on the first $106K?

  332. janet August 2, 2013 at 7:00 pm #

    “tax-expenditure benefits” (whatever that is)

    Q., you say you worked 27 years for DoD in an accounting capacity. So I am not going to explain to you what a tax is or what an expenditure is, or how paying less taxes is a benefit.

    $50,000 x 7.65% = $3825 total social security tax on the individual.

    $2,500,000 income is taxed only on the first $106,000. $106,000 x 7.65% = $8109 total tax on the individual.

    $8109 divided by $2,500,000 is a rate of 0.32436%.

    The person making $50,000 pays 7.65% of their income ($3825) to social security.

    The person making $2,500,000 pays 0.32436% ($8109) of their income to social security.

    7.65% (the rate paid by the lower income) divided by 0.32436% (the rate paid by high income) is 23.58 times higher.This is not fair or reasonable by any measure of fairness. Even you, Q. who advocates a flat tax (same tax rate for everyone) would have to concede the inherent bias in favor of the wealthy of this particular tax.

  333. janet August 2, 2013 at 7:08 pm #

    TAX THE RICH

    Good news for Warren Buffett: A new government analysis finds support for the billionaire’s controversial call to raise taxes on the wealthy, as he released his own tax data to back up the argument.

    The report, by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service, found that when all federal taxes are taken into account, a quarter of U.S. millionaires pay a smaller share of their income in federal taxes than many middle-class families, according to The Washington Post.

    Buffett earned almost $63 million last year and paid less than $7 million in federal income tax, he said in a letter sent to Rep. Tim Huelskamp, R-Kan., on Tuesday, The Wall Street Journal reports. The Berkshire Hathaway CEO has been a longtime advocate for increasing taxes on the wealthiest Americans.

    “I hope you succeed in getting the ultra rich—who, as a group, are paying less of their income to the federal government than their receptionists—to share in the sacrifice many millions of other Americans soon will be asked to do,” Mr. Buffett said in the letter.

    TAX THE RICH

    • Q. Shtik August 2, 2013 at 10:16 pm #

      TAX THE RICH

      I’m willing to discuss taxing the rich but only after we wrap up the issue you raised concerning some Canadians’ statement that “40+% of all federal entitlements goes to black Americans 3X the rate that go to whites.”

      You have dodged all over the place but haven’t provided an iota of data proving the 40% figure and the 3x figure to be false. Once you admit that these figures are likely correct I’ll tell you the fair way to tax the rich.

  334. Q. Shtik August 2, 2013 at 10:41 pm #

    $8109 divided by $2,500,000 is a rate of 0.32436%.

    I’m glad you finally grasped the proper placement of the decimal and use of the % sign. You’re a quick study. But please don’t act like that is what you have been saying all along.

    People who earn $50,000 pay $10 for a movie ticket. If Warren Buffett earns $63,000,000 should he have to pay $12,600 for a movie ticket?

    Face it, your only logic for taxing the rich 7.65% SS tax on ALL their income is that they have it. It’s like the old Willie Sutton line: Why do you rob banks Willie? “Because that’s where the money is.”

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  335. janet August 2, 2013 at 10:43 pm #

    40+% of all federal entitlements … You have dodged all over the place

    No, I haven’t dodged anything.

    I am attempting to make you honest; so far you refuse to recognize that tax entitlements for the rich should be considered in the numbers.

    When you admit the wealthy are receiving federal tax-funded entitlements, then we can run the numbers comparing the poor on welfare and the corporate/wealthy welfare recipients … just to see who is getting the most federal money, the people writing the laws with their lobbyists to benefit the wealthy or the people with no lobbyists who don’t have a pot to piss in.

    Then we will go to your idea of a flat tax, and your hypocrisy in not including that flat tax on stock market trades, a flat tax on every single transaction in the purchase of stocks/bonds/etc.

  336. janet August 2, 2013 at 11:06 pm #

    Q., does your flat tax include taxing all financial transactions?

    1. Financial industry speculation devastated middle-class homeowner wealth.

    2. U.S. investors pay zero tax on their speculative transactions.

    3. The financial transaction tax is easy to implement, and is very successful in other countries.

    Q., answer these questions:

    Why should the rest of us pay up to 10% on the necessities of life while risky derivative purchases aren’t taxed at all?

    Why should kids around the country lose their arts programs while trillions of dollars flow, untaxed, to Wall Street?

    Who is receiving the most financial benefit from federal tax policy, poor Blacks on welfare, or rich whites?

    Why won’t you answer these simple questions?

    • Nastarana August 3, 2013 at 11:40 am #

      Wall Street Sales Tax!!!

      An idea whose time has come!

  337. Q. Shtik August 2, 2013 at 11:30 pm #

    Why won’t you answer these simple questions?

    Ha, SIMPLE??

    Because our refrigerator stopped working tonight and we’ve been scrambling to make other arrangements. Also, I’m tired and going to bed.

  338. janet August 2, 2013 at 11:41 pm #

    Because our refrigerator stopped working tonight

    Sorry to hear about your refrigerator. If you plan to buy a new one, the brand that is most consistently rated as Energy Star efficient is Samsung.

    • Nastarana August 3, 2013 at 11:42 am #

      It used to be Westinghouse, which was made here in the USA. The one my mother had lasted for about 40 years.

  339. Pucker August 3, 2013 at 12:31 am #

    I see that the Head Honcho at the N…SA declared at a news conference that the N., SA is “not spying on you.”

    I guess that it turns on how one defines “spying”? Maybe what he means is that “spying” is only what non-Americans do, and, therefore, they can’t be “spying” on Americans?

    Or maybe he’s drawing a distinction between storing large volumes of data about private individuals and active “listening in”?

    I guess that it was all just some big misunderstanding?

    Either that, or they’ve all obviously lost their f…cking minds!

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    • ozone August 3, 2013 at 10:37 am #

      This is the result of graduating from the Frank Luntz School of Language Re-interpretation; you can have anything mean whatever you’d wish it to mean! (Very useful for slithering around inconvenient and uncomfortable questions.)

      I’ve found this handy guide that’s nearly as fun as the Little Orphan Annie Decoder Ring. Enjoy!

      http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35717.htm

  340. janet August 3, 2013 at 1:16 am #

    Snowden has finally left Moscow’s airport, and now he has a job offer. The founder Russian social networking giant VKontakte, often called Russia’s Facebook, has offered Snowden a job with the company. Women, wine, and a bright future in Russia for Snowden.

  341. Pucker August 3, 2013 at 6:49 am #

    What about becoming a nomadic goat herder as a doomsday exit strategy?

  342. Carol Newquist August 3, 2013 at 8:33 am #

    Is the Guy McPherson blog being blocked?

    http://www.guymcpherson.com/

    LOL! Works fine for me. Blocked? Why would it be blocked? Paranoid much? Of course you are.

    Per review of NBL, it looks like it’s more of the same. McPherson lures someone to post something so his fanboy groupies can pillory and excoriate the author like a bunch of sycophantic piranhas. Stephanie Jo Kent takes his eminence to task and his coven goes to work on her immediately with Gail of Wit’s End taking on the roll of high priestess. Of course, peppered in amongst this transparent and predictable absurdity are Tom’s incessant the-sky-is-falling posts where he links to all manner of global calamities as support that the world will end any day now.

    As janet and I have asserted, it’s entertainment; gathering around the apocalyptic campfire for ghost stories to feel alive, so bereft are their lives of any true meaning. It’s both sad and hilarious; tragic comedy.

  343. Carol Newquist August 3, 2013 at 9:09 am #

    janet, you’ve argued the case adroitly and effectively with Q Schmuck. I will add that if you look at the history of the tax code, it was always a mechanism to tax the laborers versus the capital class, hence an income tax….a tax on wages. The capital class doesn’t labor, so they don’t have wages to be taxed. This is why you rightly point to capital gains taxes, estate taxes and financial transaction taxes as a way to make them pay their fair share. But let’s face it, this system in which we all operate, rich, poor and middle class (diminishing, as it is) is the Economics of the Rich as Edward Herman so keenly observed in his 1997 article per the following link:

    http://www.zcommunications.org/the-economics-of-the-rich-by-edward-herman

    Back in 1849, the British economist Nassau Senior chided those defending trade unions and minimum wage regulations for expounding an “economics of the poor.” The idea that he and his establishment confreres were putting forth an “economics of the rich” never occurred to him; he thought of himself as a scientist and spokesperson of true principles. This self-deception pervaded mainstream economics up to the time of the Keynesian Revolution of the 1930s. Keynesian economics, though quickly tamed into an instrument of service to the capitalist state, was disturbing in its stress on the inherent instability of capitalism, the tendency toward chronic unemployment, and the need for substantial government intervention to maintain viability. With the resurgent capitalism of the past 50 years, Keynesian ideas, and their implicit call for intervention, have been under incessant attack, and, in the intellectual counterrevolution led by the Chicago School, the traditional laissez-faire (“let-the-fur-fly”) economics of the rich has been reestablished as the core of mainstream economics.

    It’s a validating read, and to think, it was written in 1997 and yet it is as relevant today, if not more so, as it was 16 years prior. For example, he had this to say:

    The Natural Order

    One of the Chicago School’s central innovations, the concept of a “natural rate of unemployment” (NRU), has entered mainstream thought and been given a respected place in textbooks and in the work of liberal economists. Alan Blinder has referred to NRU as the “clean little secret of macroeconomics,” and Paul Krugman explained in the New York Times (Feb. 4, 1996) that the existing NRU of 5.5-6 percent made a faster growth rate unsustainable. (It is unsustainable because a lower unemployment rate allegedly means accelerating inflation, which must be curbed.) With liberal thought now combining the NRU model and strong belief in free trade, the difference between Chicago School and liberal economics has become faint.

    These beliefs, and the policy agenda that they yield, embody deep ideological premises. Most important, they take the existing economic and political structures as given and defining a “natural order” to which policy must adapt. In much of his writing, for example, Krugman, although expressing concern over the increasing inequality of income, takes the income distribution as a given, because “its trend appears politically out of bounds.” But if the rich are able to fix the political boundaries by their economic and political power, an economics that limits itself to considering options within this system of domination is quite clearly in voluntary servitude to the rich.

    One consequence of this servitude is that it always yields “trickle-down” economic theory and practice. The “principles” and the political practicalities always require that policy directly serve the rich, with the general populace benefiting, if at all, only indirectly as spinoffs from the provision of adequate investor and entrepreneurial incentives. The structure of the political economy gives us a choice between Clinton and Republicans, both of whom also offer only trickle-down policy options. As this narrowly confined set of choices, and similar ones over the globe, has not brought about much trickling down to the masses over the past several decades, the intellectual “problem” for the economists is to prove to the non-beneficiaries that this is the best of all feasible worlds. As the economist Joan Robinson has pointed out, “It is the business of economists, not to tell us what to do, but show why what we are doing anyway is in accord with proper principles.”

    The economics of the rich evolves over time in accord with changing conditions. As the rich develop new wants, and find earlier structures and policies obsolete, economists make appropriate adaptations. If the powerful want a huge military-industrial complex (MIC) and sponsor a series of National Security States to provide a favorable business climate abroad, the economists will not object, but will take these as policy givens, necessary and proper responses to external factors, like the Soviet Threat. If the Threat disappears, but the MIC continues to command vast resources, the economists still remain quiet; as in the case of the increasing inequality of income, the trend here will also be “politically out of bounds.” If the business community rebels against constraints on bigness and government regulation of food, drugs, workplace safety, and the environment, the Chicago School and other economists throw up analyses that justify higher concentration and broad deregulation, and much of the rest of the profession follows in line. Those who fail to accommodate are marginalized.

    The support given brutal dictatorships like Pinochet’s in Chile by numerous members of the Chicago School (and other economists) goes beyond merely taking corporate interests and imperial needs as givens. These economists identify completely with the elite, and a class war that employs large-scale torture and murder not only doesn’t bother them, it is seen as a process of creative destruction. Pinochet’s terror, which decimated organized labor and other intermediate groups interfering with business “freedom,” helped establish a workable natural order and set the stage for the growth that Chile—or rather the Chilean elite—now enjoys (for the most recent apologia, see Gary Becker, “Latin America Owes A Lot To Its ‘Chicago Boys’,” Business Week, June 9, 1997). This growth, regularly exaggerated by measurements from inappropriate bases (like the 1982 trough), has been accompanied by a fall in the wage share from 42.7 percent in 1970 to 33.9 percent in 1993 and an increase of those in poverty from 17 percent in 1970 to 28.4 percent in 1994.

    Why do the economists serve the rich? For one thing, the leading economists are among the rich, and others seek advancement to similar heights. Chicago School economist Gary Becker was on to something when he argued that economic motives explain a lot of actions frequently attributed to other forces. He of course never applied this idea to economics as a profession, but it is hardly coincidental that economic ideas shifted so markedly in the post-World War II years in ways that fitted well the changing demands of business and financial interests. The institutional mechanisms supporting such changes—free enterprise chairs, funded research, consultancies, think tank access, etc.—have grown enormously and constitute an “effective demand” that should elicit an appropriate supply response (although this direct influence is by no means the sole factor explaining the evolution of economic thought).

    The mainstream media fit into this picture very comfortably. They are a part of the corporate system, owned by the wealthy, advertiser funded, ever more concentrated, and their managers and most prominent anchors, pundits, and reporters are also members of the monied elite. They serve establishment interests at least as consistently as the economists. This was well illustrated during the NAFTA debate of 1993, when the dominant media and pundits, as well as a very large fraction of the leading economists, lined up in fervent support of a policy that was pressed by the corporate community but consistently opposed by the general public, despite strenuous official and media propaganda.

    The media gravitate naturally toward economists who speak elite truths that the media understand and favor and to which the public has already been conditioned. These economists are also given credibility as “experts” by their affiliation with corporate-funded think tanks. The rare think tanks that offer dissident ideas, most notably the Economic Policy Institute, are labeled “labor-backed” by the media and are used sparingly. An institution like the American Enterprise Institute, which receives a considerably larger fraction of its income from corporations than EPI gets from labor, is very rarely called “corporate backed.” This is a further illustration of the fact that for the corporate media, corporate sponsorship of an economics of the rich reflects a natural order and the national interest.

  344. Carol Newquist August 3, 2013 at 9:58 am #

    And so we see, it isn’t that the Elite are stupid, or ignorant, or incompetent as many critics would have us believe. They are wholly competent in selecting and grooming the right people to justify, rationalize and perpetuate the Economics of the Rich; their economy…not your economy. You don’t enter the equation, and when resources become scarce, you’re expendable via starvation, disease and a lifespan of thirty some odd years versus nearly the eighty you enjoy now. They will continue their transhumanist project of immortality whilst the vast majority of useless eaters is culled by natural causes.

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    • BackRowHeckler August 3, 2013 at 11:36 am #

      But the population is growing, maybe to half a billion by mid century. After this immigration bill passes and 60-75 million Third Worlders, all expecting some kind of Government Check, show up in the next few years, everything discussed on this blog will be moot. There will be a whole new set of problems, massive ones, and a whole lot less resources to deal with them.

      BackRowHeckler

  345. Q. Shtik August 3, 2013 at 11:00 am #

    3. The financial transaction tax is easy to implement, and is very successful in other countries.

    I’m not up on all the “FIT” lore that’s out there but I stumbled on this article written 3.5 months ago (link below) that makes implementation of a financial transaction tax sound anything but “easy” not to mention fraught with unintended consequences. In what other countries is such a tax working like a charm?

    What becomes of the tax money gathered in this way? Does it put food on the tables of the poor?

    http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21576673-worries-grow-about-ill-thought-out-new-european-tax-oops

  346. Q. Shtik August 3, 2013 at 11:14 am #

    New York Times
    August 2, 2013
    World Briefing
    Middle East

    Iraq: 1,057 Killed in July, U.N. Says

    The United Nations said Thursday that July was Iraq’s deadliest month in more than five years…………Many of the attacks in July were aimed at members of the Shiite majority……etc

    ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE

  347. progress4what August 3, 2013 at 11:21 am #

    The Death of a Discussion Thread
    (Why JHK Must Learn to Use the Ban)

    asokajanetcarolsoakajanetasokacaroozonesayussomethingworthwhileljanetcarolasokajanetcarolcaroljanetjanetasokacaroljanetasokajanetjanetjanetcarolasokaasokajanetcaroljanetcarolasokajanetjanetasokacarolcarolasokajanetjanetcarolasokajanetcarolsoakajanetasokacaroljanetcarolasokajanetcarolcaroljanetjanetasokacaroljanetasokajanetjanetjanetcarolasokaasokajanetcaroljanetcarolasokajanetjanetasokacarolcarolasokajanetjanetcarolasokajanetcarolsoakajanetasokacaroljanetcarolasokajanetcarolcaroljanetjanetasokacaroljanetasokajanetjanetjankKdoggsayssomethingworththinkingaboutetcarolasokaasokajanetcaroljanetcarolasokajanetjanetasokacarolcarolasokajanetjanetcarolasokajanetcarolsoakajanetasokacaroljanetcarolasokajanetQstickprovesasokaaliarcarolcaroljanetjanetasokacaroljanetasokajanetjanetjanetcarolasokaasokajanetcaroljanetcarolasokajasokapretendstobeKarahnetjanetasokacarolcarolasokajanetjanetcaroljanetjanetjanetjanetjanetjenatjanet

    asokajanetcarolsoakajanetasokacaroozonesayussomethingworthwhileljanetcarolasokajanetcarolcaroljanetjanetasokacaroljanetasokajanetjanetjanetcarolasokaasokajanetcaroljanetcarolasokajanetjanetasokacarolcarolasokajanetjanetcarolasokajanetcarolsoakajanetasokacaroljanetcarolasokajanetcarolcaroljanetjanetasokacaroljanetasokajanetjanetjanetcarolasokaasokajanetcaroljanetcarolasokajanetjanetasokacarolcarolasokajanetjanetcarolasokajanetcarolsoakajanetasokacaroljanetcarolasokajanetcarolcaroljanetjanetasokacaroljanetasokajanetjanetjankKdoggsayssomethingworththinkingaboutetcarolasokaasokajanetcaroljanetcarolasokajanetjanetasokacarolcarolasokajanetjanetcarolasokajanetcarolsoakajanetasokacaroljanetcarolasokajanetQstickprovesasokaaliarcarolcaroljanetjanetasokacaroljanetasokajanetjanetjanetcarolasokaasokajanetcaroljanetcarolasokajasokapretendstobeKarahnetjanetasokacarolcarolasokajanetjanetcaroljanetjanetjanetjanetjanetjenatjanet

    asokajanetcarolsoakajanetasokacaroozonesayussomethingworthwhileljanetcarolasokajanetcarolcaroljanetjanetasokacaroljanetasokajanetjanetjanetcarolasokaasokajanetcaroljanetcarolasokajanetjanetasokacarolcarolasokajanetjanetcarolasokajanetcarolsoakajanetasokacaroljanetcarolasokajanetcarolcaroljanetjanetasokacaroljanetasokajanetjanetjanetcarolasokaasokajanetcaroljanetcarolasokajanetjanetasokacarolcarolasokajanetjanetcarolasokajanetcarolsoakajanetasokacaroljanetcarolasokajanetcarolcaroljanetjanetasokacaroljanetasokajanetjanetjankKdoggsayssomethingworththinkingaboutetcarolasokaasokajanetcaroljanetcarolasokajanetjanetasokacarolcarolasokajanetjanetcarolasokajanetcarolsoakajanetasokacaroljanetcarolasokajanetQstickprovesasokaaliarcarolcaroljanetjanetasokacaroljanetasokajanetjanetjanetcarolasokaasokajanetcaroljanetcarolasokajasokapretendstobeKarahnetjanetasokacarolcarolasokajanetjanetcaroljanetjanetjanetjanetjanetjenatjanet

    JAMES HOWARD KUNSTLER SHOULD BAN THE TROLLING TWOSOME.

    • progress4what August 3, 2013 at 11:30 am #

      In actuality, each of those LONG carolasokajanetjanet sentences was deliberately paginated by this author as a separate, and medium length, paragraph.

      What strange software, indeed.

    • Nastarana August 3, 2013 at 11:51 am #

      JHK is not going to ban the trolling twosome. Why? I would guess it is because he may have been asked by someone whom he likes or respects to not do so.

      It is not hard to imagine how the conversation might have gone: Way too much doomer-prepper-hippie dropout stuff going on on your blog, Jim. Look I/we love you and I/we support what you are trying to say, but, jeez, the crazies are really coming out of the woods in your comments section. Now all we want to do here is insert some balance, and get our point of view across. etc. etc.

      • ozone August 4, 2013 at 9:31 am #

        Could be, N.
        Some other possibilities:

        It’s just too much trouble to constantly moderate blog posters who have no respect for identity. (They’ll just switch IP addys and screen names and be back the next day.) EROEI applies here too. 😉

        Consider this piece of the week’s essay:

        “We’re witnessing the implosion of the American hive mind.

        This is what comes of divorcing truth from reality, and that process is exactly what you get in the effort to replace authentic economic activity with accounting fraud and propaganda.” -JHK

        Perhaps he wants us to see for ourselves the lengths that the propagandists will go to in order to blunt his message and keep us believing that a return to the good times is ‘right around the corner’. This was a tactic pulled during the Depression (the one in the moldy old history books). Everything was ‘just about to turn around’ as years and years of grinding down was proceeding. Pure, unadulterated bullshit.
        The trolls do make that point, don’t they? …In spades and truckloads.

  348. Carol Newquist August 3, 2013 at 11:23 am #

    What becomes of the tax money gathered in this way?

    It’s not a matter of what “is” done with it, it’s a matter of what should be done with it. But, as we see, Q Schmuck is proving Edward Herman’s points with his latest response to janet. To emphasize once again, Herman says the following and we see it exemplified by Q Schmuck’s reactions to a challenge of The Economics of the Rich.

    These beliefs, and the policy agenda that they yield, embody deep ideological premises. Most important, they take the existing economic and political structures as given and defining a “natural order” to which policy must adapt…….

    But if the rich are able to fix the political boundaries by their economic and political power, an economics that limits itself to considering options within this system of domination is quite clearly in voluntary servitude to the rich.

    Get that? Any policy prescription that emanates from within this system, a system we know is in servitude to the rich, can only further serve the rich because the rich and their technocrats define the economic and political boundaries. Anything outside of those boundaries has no chance. This is precisely why we keep getting more of the same despite the rhetoric to the contrary.

  349. progress4what August 3, 2013 at 11:25 am #

    And thus we discover that this new blogging software has very long line wraps in the absence of spaces.

    Who knew?

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  350. Carol Newquist August 3, 2013 at 11:31 am #

    The United Nations said Thursday that July was Iraq’s deadliest month in more than five years…………Many of the attacks in July were aimed at members of the Shiite majority……etc

    ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE

    Ummm. you’re not too bright, are you? It says “aimed at” not “perpetrated by.” Last time I checked, The Shia were Muslim and here you link to something showing us they were attacked. Sure, sure, perhaps they were attacked by Sunni, but as we know, or you should know, the Sunni are the more secular of the two factions, meaning they’re less fundamentalist, much like buffet Catholics who choose when and how they want to practice their religion in earnest, if ever. Meaning they claim their religion only for show. If you want to prove your point, use a better example next time, you moron.

  351. Carol Newquist August 3, 2013 at 11:35 am #

    Who knew?

    You did, you piece of garbage, because you’re a spammer and that’s what spammers do. What an ungrateful jerk you are. First, you complain and whine about everything including this great software that I love by the way, and then you go and release a bowel movement of spam in the middle of our living room floor here. You’re a party pooper….quite literally. I’m pissed at your mother for not aborting you.

    • progress4what August 3, 2013 at 11:55 am #

      OK, nitwit.
      Please explain to the assembled gathering why my three lines of janetjanetasokacarol – should be considered “spam.”
      http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spam

      And then explain why “bowel movement,” “pooper,” “pissed,” and “aborting;” contribute in any manner to the clarity of your “response.”

      And then explain why JHK should not ban your worthless trollingness from his personally owned commercial webspace.

      These three requested responses will take you quite a while.
      And all your answers will be foolish obfuscations.

      Nevertheless, and in a spirit of fair play, I will look for your response on Monday.

      I’m out ’till then.
      Everyone have a great rest-of-the-weekend.
      (That’s all 5+/- of you who read despite the Trolling Twosome.)

      carolasokajanet – go away.
      JHK – ban the Trolling Twosome.

  352. Carol Newquist August 3, 2013 at 12:06 pm #

    OK, nitwit.

    Interesting choice of word for an alleged Georgia Militia Man.

    nitwit (n.)

    “stupid person,” 1922, probably from nit “nothing,” from dialectal German or Yiddish, from Middle Low German (see nix) + wit (n.).

    You really must be more careful with your word selection if you wish to stay in character and be believable. By the way, can you tell us what Monday’s post will be about? You seem to have an uncanny knack for predicting the topics.

  353. Carol Newquist August 3, 2013 at 12:13 pm #

    It used to be Westinghouse, which was made here in the USA. The one my mother had lasted for about 40 years.

    It’s got nothing on you. I’m betting you have it beat by at least twenty years, probably more. Afterall, you’re as Cold As Ice.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_1XdSqBQUg

    • Nastarana August 3, 2013 at 4:33 pm #

      Don’t like being reminded that Americans used to make things I see.

      I wonder why not?

  354. Q. Shtik August 3, 2013 at 12:15 pm #

    Sure, sure, perhaps they were attacked by Sunni, but as we know, ………. the Sunni are the more secular of the two factions, meaning they’re less fundamentalist, – “Carol”

    Well that explains it. It is understandable if not outright OK for the secular elements of a religion to murder their fundamentalist brethren.

    The orthodox Jews (wearing black on 98 degree days and sporting curls for sideburns) in my home town better keep their eyes peeled for those Reform Jews. We could have mayhem break out right on my block.

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  355. Carol Newquist August 3, 2013 at 12:23 pm #

    Well that explains it. It is understandable if not outright OK for the secular elements of a religion to murder their fundamentalist brethren.

    The orthodox Jews (wearing black on 98 degree days and sporting curls for sideburns) in my home town better keep their eyes peeled for those Reform Jews. We could have mayhem break out right on my block.

    Exactly, it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with class. The Shia were the poor of Iraq until the U.S. invaded and occupied and turned everything on its head. The U.S. then arms the Sunni rebels who were once the upper and middle class who want their position and status back and you get a perpetual strategy of tension over limited resources. It’s about economics, not religion. I know you know this and are being purposely misdirectional. It’s lame and transparent for anyone with any semblance of intelligence.

  356. Carol Newquist August 3, 2013 at 12:33 pm #

    It’s also clear that “Q. Shtik” is “progress4banning”. If anyone who is reading any of this, and more than likely hardly anyone is aside from the person or two who is/are operating as ten here, notice the similarity in writing in the last few posts from “Q. Shtik” and “progress4banning”. I still have the emails, douchebag, and the pattern matches the pattern of your correspondence to me. If you want to challenge me, do it with one name (it doesn’t even have to be your real name), rather than as a multitude. It’s pretty cowardly to hide behind ten or more names when you’re attacking someone. Come on, what are you afraid of? I told you I could take you in this section anytime without resorting to multiple screen names to put you flat on your back. By virtue of the fact you have to do that, I win, hands down.

  357. Q. Shtik August 3, 2013 at 12:37 pm #

    2. U.S. investors pay zero tax on their speculative transactions. – Ja’Soka

    Please explain for me what makes one transaction speculative and another not speculative.

  358. Q. Shtik August 3, 2013 at 12:45 pm #

    the Sunni rebels who were once the upper and middle class who want their position and status back – “Carol”

    Yes, I see your point. Loss of former status makes murder OK within these elements of ISLAM – A RELIGION OF PEACE.

  359. Q. Shtik August 3, 2013 at 1:07 pm #

    this great software that I love by the way – “Carol”

    If you loved this software you would have clicked on the Reply button in responding to Prog but you didn’t. You did the same thing that I do. You created a brand new comment using italics to identify the comment you are replying to in order to assure that it would be read. Replies made via the Reply button often get lost in antiquity and that is the primary drawback of this software. Few of us are willing to go scrolling back 5 days to see if someone posted an interesting reply.

    The Reply function in the former CFN software was superior.

    Using the Edit/Find function is also a bit of a nightmare now that a week of say 700 comments is broken up into 8 or 9 pages.

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  360. Carol Newquist August 3, 2013 at 1:43 pm #

    Yes, I see your point. Loss of former status makes murder OK within these elements of ISLAM – A RELIGION OF PEACE.

    The burden of proof is upon you. You must prove that the violence has anything to do with Islam since you are the one implying Islam is not a religion of peace and using this latest strife in Iraq as an example.

    I stand by my point that Islam as a religion has nothing to do with it. It’s economics, pure and simple. Religion is used to disguise the true underlying causes. Islam, like any religion, is many things. Islam can be a religion of peace, and it can be a religion of violence to include war. It contains multitudes. It can be whatever anyone wants it to be at the moment, including what you want it to be. It’s the product of all projections placed upon it.

    And no, murder is not”OK” as far as I’m concerned, but last time I checked, no one asked me about my concerns before murdering, so that was an unnecessary statement on your part. Nice try in attempting to imply I condone such acts. I don’t, anymore than I condone the U.S. murdering 3-5 million people in Vietnam in the name of Christianity.

  361. Nastarana August 3, 2013 at 1:45 pm #

    Silly Column

    I think the Krugman column was not silly at all, a bit behind the times to be sure, but how many who have been on top of the peak oil/ sprawl issues have ever bothered to point out, as Krugman did, the devastating effect that rising energy costs has on the lives of the poor? I am not aware that JHK has ever mentioned the fact that poor folks often cannot afford the costs of maintaining an auto, legally or illegally, and have to turn down, or not seek, employment which they can’t reach by public transportation.

    Don’t forget, that unless you live in a major city, public transportation DOES NOT run all night, and in many towns operates only in daytimes. Sure, people can walk. I love walking. But after dark, in an impoverished neighborhood? When you are dressed for work, not anonymously as you need to be in dangerous neighborhoods?

  362. Carol Newquist August 3, 2013 at 1:50 pm #

    If you loved this software you would have clicked on the Reply button in responding to Prog but you didn’t.

    No, I wouldn’t have. I respond to the written statements, not the author. Frankly, I wish none of us had identifying names here so this could all be expression rather than personality bullshit that only serves to obscure discussion. Without identifying names, progress4spam wouldn’t post because he’d be forced to confront what was written, and not the “person” doing the writing. Perish that thought, I know. It would shatter your world, even though your world is shattering as we speak, hence your angst, feigned or otherwise.

    I’ll say it again. I love this software. If you don’t like it, ask for your money back. I’m sure the Jersey Nerds will make good on their contract. The customer is always right, remember?

    Now excuse me, I have to go check on the sugar cookies; the timer’s going off.

  363. janet August 3, 2013 at 2:01 pm #

    Without identifying names, progress4spam wouldn’t post …

    I wouldn’t actually call the spam P4S contributes here as “posts” because they have no content. They are just spam. Crybaby cries to daddy because baby is not happy.

  364. Q. Shtik August 3, 2013 at 2:21 pm #

    I think the Krugman column was not silly at all – Nast

    What is the date of the column you are referring to? His latest column was yesterday and had to do with who should replace Bernanke when he leaves the Fed.

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    • Nastarana August 3, 2013 at 2:43 pm #

      I was referring to the column mentioned by JHK. Is there a time after which we are not to refer to JHK’s column of the week? If so, someone forgot to mention that last week when we were all being excoriated for not discussing Detroit.

  365. Carol Newquist August 3, 2013 at 3:20 pm #

    Is there a time after which we are not to refer to JHK’s column of the week?

    No, of course not you frigid goob, but at least have the courtesy to indicate that’s what you’re referring to, otherwise, people are going to think you’re nuts…..ummm, wait a minute…it’s already too late for that. Never mind.

  366. Carol Newquist August 3, 2013 at 3:30 pm #

    So…if I’m not part of the elite then I have two choices:

    1) debt slavery

    2) pauperism

    :-S

    Karah, this is a great point, and something that needs to be emphasized. If the adoption of a minimalist lifestyle is to be undertaken to save the planet, that minimalist lifestyle MUST apply to all equally, otherwise it’s bullshit. The rich cannot be allowed to go on concentrating wealth and living ever-more hedonistic lifestyles whilst the remainder voluntarily slip into poverty. That would be de facto slavery at that point. Destitution leads to desperation, and desperation is ripe for exploitation of all manner, not that we’re not being exploited as it is right now, but we ain’t seen nothing yet if more ground is given up voluntarily.

    • Karah August 7, 2013 at 12:18 pm #

      Aren’t you proposing a form of communism? That doesn’t work.
      Maybe, Carol, you should haunt Orlov’s threads instead of this one?
      I suspect he has a more expansive audience.
      Then again, he approves or denies his commenters. 🙂

      I’ve chosen to remain behind door #2 – pauper. My reason, that is where I will end up regardless because all my hard work will lead me to major health problems in my old age that can only be paid by the state. I’ll have a house and car and a relative to care for me; however, none of it will be worth anything to anyone but me. It’s only the people that can manage multiple investments perpetually and can leverage them to increase personal wealth that will find a permanent way into the “elite” stratosphere. Of course, in order to obtain the necessary knowledge to do this kind of higher level activity, one has to attend some kind of post HS program that explains the laws, studies the laws and enforces the laws. Most people are only familiar with the laws governing criminal behavior and not the ones that govern buying and selling property and assets.

  367. Nastarana August 3, 2013 at 4:44 pm #

    If the impoverished of all ethnicities are munching cheesedoodles and buying ugly cheap clothing, there just might not be anything else available anywhere near where they live.

    I think the former middle and working classes are still in a state of shock, and not quite yet comprehending what has happened to them. They did what they were supposed to do, worked in the offices and workplaces, bought the products, voted for the elite-approved candidates, only to wake up and find that the country had been taken over by a group of criminal gangs.

    Someone above referred to the Dream Act. I doubt any such thing will be passed, and I doubt Obama has any intention of pushing it. He went through the motions during the elections, which is no more cynical than what we are used to seeing from presidential candidates, Remember Clinton being opposed to NAFTA?

    I think Obama realizes what a law enforcement nightmare the Dream Act would be, with people trading identity documents and claiming to have been brought here as infants.

    • Janos Skorenzy August 3, 2013 at 8:55 pm #

      You are forgetting that Chinese character for chaos is the same as the one for opportunity. Unless America is reduced to chaos, how can the Revolution happen? You are assuming Obama wants stability. All the evidence points towards his being a Communist intent on Revolution.

      My dear Frau, you are too good to understand the way these demons think. Of course they do feint this way and that. But I don’t think so this time.

      • Nastarana August 3, 2013 at 9:20 pm #

        I think the evidence points towards his being an opportunist and pragmatist. Unfortunately, he turned out to be not bribable but too easily intimidated.

        I think if he signs a DA, the Republicans take the WH in 2016.

  368. janet August 3, 2013 at 7:28 pm #

    American companies are sitting on a record $1.78 trillion stockpile of cash. That’s enough to pay 5 million people $70,000-a-year salaries for five years.

    Blame the Obama administration for shelling out a million bucks per soldier in Afghanistan, which could go instead toward creating good jobs at home. Blame those in Congress who refuse to support any kind of jobs legislation. Blame the American people for voting bozos into office.

    We need to let more immigrants into the USA.

    Caterpillar, Microsoft, and other companies have unfilled job openings that American citizens cannot fill because the vast majority of the jobs are working in STEM fields (science, technology, engineering, and math), particularly in engineering and IT positions, and in the United States there are simply not enough qualified workers to fill companies’ needs.

    The latest economic estimates place the number of unfilled STEM jobs at 3.7 million. Open the borders to more immigrants. Also give amnesty to the DREAMers now!

    One recent study says that the economy will be creating in excess of 150,000 STEM jobs every year between 2010 and 2020, while the number of college students graduating annually in these fields has stagnated at 40,000. These jobs will drive innovation, but our education system is not keeping up its task of educating our students to fill the increasing flow of new STEM jobs. Increase immigration now!

    The shortage of talent and the need for international competitiveness have driven companies to depend heavily on the contributions of H-1B professionals and other high-skilled workers from abroad. The H-1B visa remains an important tool for hiring foreign nationals who receive their advanced degrees from U.S. universities. Give the foreign nationals citizenship now!

    Exempt STEM positions from any kind of cap and allow foreign students who receive a master’s or a Ph.D. degree from an American university in a STEM field to receive immediate citizenship so that they can stay here and work.

    Open the borders! Tear down the walls! Remove the caps! Fill the well-paid unfilled job openings for STEM workers that current American citizens cannot fill because American citizens just are not smart enough. Let’s get this country moving again. There is work to be done and their are immigrants who want to do it. Reward the immigrants with citizenship.

  369. janet August 3, 2013 at 7:31 pm #

    ^There is work to be done and there are immigrants who want to do it. Reward the immigrants with citizenship.

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  370. alpha mail August 3, 2013 at 7:36 pm #

    I see that the resident impediment is forcibly doing whatever “it” can to derail meaningful conversation here. “Carol”, “Janet” doing whatever to pour massive amounts of turds into the punchbowl. There is no shame, just a steadfast aim to detour any intelligent discourse. I plead to all other posters….IGNORE THESE TROLLS, PLEASE!!! Don’t feed them and THEY WILL GO AWAY!!!

  371. alpha mail August 3, 2013 at 7:39 pm #

    “Janet/Carol” sez: “The latest economic estimates place the number of unfilled STEM jobs at 3.7 million. Open the borders to more immigrants. Also give amnesty to the DREAMers now!”

    Anybody still maintain that this isn’t ASOKA???

    • anti dod August 3, 2013 at 7:45 pm #

      To moi knowledge, the only one here who denied that ‘caroljanetkarah’
      is not ‘the entity’ was that entity.

  372. janet August 3, 2013 at 7:50 pm #

    Give the DREAMers IMMEDIATE citizenship and not a crappy 13-year-long-jumping-through-bureaucratic-hoops “path” to citizenship.

    LEGALIZE THEM NOW!

  373. janet August 3, 2013 at 7:56 pm #

    I see that the resident impediment is forcibly doing whatever “it” can … Don’t feed them and THEY WILL GO AWAY!!!

    ————-

    Can provide any evidence of the truth of this claim?

    Did Asoka finally go away (after seven years) because he was not fed?

    How is anyone “forcibly” causing you to post or not to post?

  374. janet August 3, 2013 at 8:00 pm #

    anti and alpha are distracting from the topic raised, which is…

    American companies are sitting on a record $1.78 trillion stockpile of cash. That’s enough to pay 5 million people $70,000-a-year salaries for five years.

    Blame the Obama administration for shelling out a million bucks per soldier in Afghanistan, which could go instead toward creating good jobs at home. Blame those in Congress who refuse to support any kind of jobs legislation. Blame the American people for voting bozos into office.

    We need to let more immigrants into the USA.

    Caterpillar, Microsoft, and other companies have unfilled job openings that American citizens cannot fill because the vast majority of the jobs are working in STEM fields (science, technology, engineering, and math), particularly in engineering and IT positions, and in the United States there are simply not enough qualified workers to fill companies’ needs.

    The latest economic estimates place the number of unfilled STEM jobs at 3.7 million. Open the borders to more immigrants. Also give amnesty to the DREAMers now!

    One recent study says that the economy will be creating in excess of 150,000 STEM jobs every year between 2010 and 2020, while the number of college students graduating annually in these fields has stagnated at 40,000. These jobs will drive innovation, but our education system is not keeping up its task of educating our students to fill the increasing flow of new STEM jobs. Increase immigration now!

    The shortage of talent and the need for international competitiveness have driven companies to depend heavily on the contributions of H-1B professionals and other high-skilled workers from abroad. The H-1B visa remains an important tool for hiring foreign nationals who receive their advanced degrees from U.S. universities. Give the foreign nationals citizenship now!

    Exempt STEM positions from any kind of cap and allow foreign students who receive a master’s or a Ph.D. degree from an American university in a STEM field to receive immediate citizenship so that they can stay here and work.

    Open the borders! Tear down the walls! Remove the caps! Fill the well-paid unfilled job openings for STEM workers that current American citizens cannot fill because American citizens just are not smart enough. Let’s get this country moving again. There is work to be done and their are immigrants who want to do it. Reward the immigrants with citizenship.

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    • handyman August 3, 2013 at 9:05 pm #

      A little clarification, and a few questions to be answered, if you would, Janet. If, as you say, that there are so many STEM jobs to be filled and our own educational system is so failing of the needs of the big corporations, why can’t we make more investment in our education system? Perhaps we can make the corporations chip in as a quid pro quo for the subsidies (both openly and covertly) they receive from “our” government.

      Since, as you say, these foreign nationals are receiving their advanced degrees at our universities, perhaps they should be paying a substantial “user fee” for the privilege which could then be used for our children’s education?

  375. routersurfer August 3, 2013 at 8:04 pm #

    Howdy folks! Meanwhile back at JHK blog…..Years ago,back when I whoring myself to America,Inc. You could find me in my cubicle smiling after a ” Meeting” a ritualized dance in which wage slaves bowed to the “Masters” and told them what great ideas they had to save the day. Mostly at the wage slaves expense. I would remember saying to myself ” Concept ! What a reality! ” That has become the sum of our world and Jim nails it. A thought or a hope we hold has replaced reality. No one knows what God looks like is a true statement. How many know what reality looks like is not far behind. Little we hold as “real” will be around in a few years. What’s next? Our call. Should we let others decide? Time to build community. Now, back to the trolls.

    • ozone August 4, 2013 at 8:50 am #

      There are many more of us awakened folks than TPTB would like to admit…. that would go double for admitting it publicly.
      The [thin] tissue of lies touted by the venal servants of the corporations (da gum’mint) that we should sit tight — help is on the way, is being seen for the delaying tactic that it is.
      Yes, it’s our call, and we’re now immune to the siren song of wealth beyond our wildest dreams. The dream is dead, it matters not what the masters do or pretend to do. The bullshittery [tm MM] is no longer a replacement for the insistent call of necessity.

    • Karah August 7, 2013 at 12:36 pm #

      Our children are no wiser than we are, of course.

      If one wants to discuss why people do not want to know what God looks like…

      it’s because he looks like someone they don’t want him to look like.

      Most people want God to look like them, thus, be in agreement with or have his approval.

      That’s why some call God a she. Ha!

      In “looking like” something we can relate to, God is most definitely a man whose dominion is the universe and everything in it, before it and after it. Of course, if he ruled like a man, the universe and everything would be in a lot of chaos and it isn’t that way. God must not resemble any human ruler we’ve ever had.

  376. janet August 3, 2013 at 8:05 pm #

    ^There is work to be done and there are plenty of immigrants who want to do it. Reward the immigrants with citizenship.

  377. janet August 3, 2013 at 8:09 pm #

    routersurfer said: “What’s next? Our call. Should we let others decide? Time to build community. ”

    It is time to rebuild infrastructure and fill unfilled STEM jobs. There are skilled immigrants who want those unfilled jobs and we should open the borders and give them citizenship.

    Let’s get this country moving again. There is work to be done and there are plenty of immigrants who want to do it. Let’s reward those immigrants with immediate and complete citizenship so they can stay here and work.

  378. janet August 3, 2013 at 8:30 pm #

    America has always been a nation of immigrants, and throughout the nation’s history, immigrants from around the globe have kept our workforce vibrant, our businesses on the cutting edge, and helped to build the greatest economic engine in the world. But our nation’s immigration system is broken and has not kept pace with changing times. Today, too many employers game the system by hiring undocumented workers and there are 11 million people living and working in the shadow economy. Neither is good for the U.S. economy or American families.

    Commonsense immigration reform will strengthen the U.S. economy and create jobs. Independent studies affirm that commonsense immigration reform will increase economic growth by adding more high-demand workers to the labor force, increasing capital investment and overall productivity, and leading to greater numbers of entrepreneurs starting companies in the U.S.

    Economists, business leaders, and American workers agree – and it’s why a bipartisan, diverse coalition of stakeholders have come together to urge Congress to act now to fix the broken immigration system in a way that requires responsibility from everyone —both from unauthorized workers and from those who hire them—and guarantees that everyone is playing by the same rules. The Senate recently passed a bipartisan, commonsense immigration reform bill would do just that – and it’s time for the House of Representations to join them in taking action to make sure that commonsense immigration reform becomes a reality as soon as possible.

    Let’s get this country moving again. There is work to be done and there are plenty of immigrants who want to do it. Let’s reward immigrants who want to come here with immediate (48 hour paperwork turnaround) and complete citizenship, so they can stay here and work.

    Remove caps on STEM immigrants. Legalize DREAMers now!

    • Janos Skorenzy August 3, 2013 at 9:00 pm #

      All of us stakeholders need to put our stakes through the heart of this evil Bill. The Dreamers are Vampires and Zombies. And the pols who want them here are demons and black wizards.

  379. Janos Skorenzy August 3, 2013 at 8:57 pm #

    Fire Commissioner in Detroit chimps out. Blames the decrepit condition of the fire houses on Whites.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zufadmksx48

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    • Janos Skorenzy August 3, 2013 at 9:02 pm #

      Hey gang, maybe I’ll start a feature – the chimp out of the week or Weekly Chimpout. Please respond with your thoughts and feelings.

      • handyman August 3, 2013 at 9:18 pm #

        I nominate you. You are always going apeshit concerning race.

        • Janos Skorenzy August 3, 2013 at 11:25 pm #

          The end of the White Race doesn’t warrant any concern in your little book, your little lamb’s Book of Death?

          • handyman August 3, 2013 at 11:47 pm #

            Your shallow end of the gene pool? Not so much. I’ve dealt with your kind down here for years. Fear seems to be the dominant characteristic of racists. Ya’ll are dangerous in packs but not so much as individuals, unless, of course, to those smaller or weaker than yourselves.
            Awful hung up on death, aren’t you? Not good for you, man. Leads to all sorts of abnormal behavior.

  380. janet August 3, 2013 at 9:30 pm #

    handyman: “why can’t we make more investment in our education system”

    ==========

    If you have ever worked in higher education, you know the K-12 system is failing to prepare students for university level academic work. I have nothing against increasing investment in K-12, etc. but the results will take years. The needs of Caterpillar, Microsoft, etc. are NOW. The immigrants already have the brains and credentials. Let them work now and give them immediate citizenship.

    In a free enterprise system reward should be based on merit, not on what nationality you are. The immigrants are more deserving based on merit because they did not drop out of high school, they did not drink their way through university, they have well-trained minds, and they are the superior ones for the well-paying STEM positions.

    • handyman August 3, 2013 at 10:13 pm #

      You seem to have misunderstood the questions. I know very well about college culture from being a student, and as the head painter at a university with a lot of socializing with students off campus. (As an aside, I prefer working with my hands, I think I would be far”handier” to have around in the Long Emergency than a STEM specialist but that’s just my opinion.)
      I have no problem with immigrants, with my ancestry it would be hypocritical, it has more to do with TANSTAAFL. If the corporations have a problem with qualified applicants, let them help pay for a long-standing solution in return for the subsidies they have already received. Let the foreign nationals help pay for the infrastructure that enables the universities to exist. Remember, “You didn’t build that”. We all did.

  381. Pucker August 3, 2013 at 9:30 pm #

    Guy McPherson’s blog is again up-and-running. I don’t know why it was blocked temporarily in parts of Asia. Strange….

    I suspect that when they start blocking websites that it may be because such websites are getting closer to the Truth?

    Guy McPherson wants to terminate Industrial Civilization.

    http://guymcpherson.com/2013/08/the-selfish-surrender-of-privileged-people/

  382. janet August 3, 2013 at 9:39 pm #

    Pucker: I suspect that when they start blocking websites

    Who is this mysterious conspiratorial “they” that you speak of?

  383. Pucker August 3, 2013 at 10:01 pm #

    Janet asked: Who are “They”?

    By “They”, I mean the folks who block websites. In China, basically all blogs are blocked. In Hong Kong, the Internet is generally open; however, I found it strange that the Guy McPherson blog opened with the exactly the same “Permission Denied” message recently both in China and in Hong Kong. After I complained on this blog, it opened up. Strange….

  384. Pucker August 3, 2013 at 10:04 pm #

    Is it now legal in some US states to start a hydroponic industrial Collapse marijuana and opium production facility? thanks.

    I suppose that another option would be goat herding? Before the banditos arrive one could just move the flock of goats to a safer tract of grassland.

    http://www.aquaponics.net.au/Training1.html

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    • ozone August 4, 2013 at 8:58 am #

      No.

  385. Pucker August 3, 2013 at 10:07 pm #

    Do you think that any Afghan warlords might be interested in financing an aquaponic industrial Collapse marijuana and opium production facility? Thanks.

    • handyman August 3, 2013 at 10:22 pm #

      Here in the ‘states not all of us worry about permission. It’s traditional down here in the South to manufacture intoxicating substances. (Think moonshining) ;). We tend to self finance as well.

    • ozone August 4, 2013 at 8:58 am #

      Yes.

  386. janet August 3, 2013 at 10:15 pm #

    Pucker: After I complained on this blog, it opened up.

    Yes, this blog is powerful. “They” live in fear of this blog and its power, which is why “they” opened up the blocked website when “they” read what you posted here. Good work, Pucker.

  387. Pucker August 3, 2013 at 10:27 pm #

    JHK wrote: “These days, surely, the idea of physical labor in the sorghum rows is abhorrent to a 325-pound food-stamp recipient lounging in an air-conditioned trailer engrossed in the televised adventures of Kim Kardashian and her celebrated vagina while feasting on a KFC 10-piece bundle and a 32 oz Mountain Dew. ”

    Yummy….

    Why 325 pounds?

    • Janos Skorenzy August 3, 2013 at 11:03 pm #

      By the use of Rosicrucian addition: 3+2+5=10 and 1+0=1, so Jim is telling us that we are really all One despite the repulsive form of many of our fellow citizens. You have to look deeper, Puck.

  388. janet August 3, 2013 at 10:30 pm #

    it has more to do with TANSTAAFL

    You wouldn’t be alive if TANSTAAFL was true. The Sun and oxygen and carbon dioxide are all a result of free lunch metabolism evolved to take advantage of the free lunch provided by the Sun, which also triggers production of vital free lunch oxygen in plants, which keeps you alive.

    Remember, “You didn’t build that”. We all did.

    Yeah, and the sooner we provide immigrants with citizenship, the sooner they are paying taxes to pay for the infrastructure … in addition to the contribution they will make to build the infrastructure.

    The latest economic estimates place the number of unfilled STEM jobs at 3.7 million. That’s a lot of taxpayers that could be put to work immediately if we just reform immigration laws and legalize the DREAMers.

    • handyman August 3, 2013 at 11:00 pm #

      “You wouldn’t be alive if TANSTAAFL was true. The Sun and oxygen and carbon dioxide are all a result of free lunch metabolism evolved to take advantage of the free lunch provided by the Sun, which also triggers production of vital free lunch oxygen in plants, which keeps you alive.”
      It seems I got short-changed in the way of chlorophyll and so work to eat, and thus make the plants also pay for the free goodies provided by Gaia.
      Sorry, if the corporations and the foreign nationals (not all of whom want to become citizens) want lunch, let them pay for it.
      The Dreamers are a different problem mostly caused by the elite wanting cheap labor. They are sort of a “chinese obligation” that we incurred so I’m good with the present population, but could you tell me when the cutoff should be or is this going to be a perpetual problem?

    • Janos Skorenzy August 3, 2013 at 11:08 pm #

      The Dreamers will take more than they give – as do the Mexicans already here.

      When predators seek to take a deer or antelope, they look for the weakest so as to maximize their eroei. There is no such thing as a free lunch, but there are lunches that cost more than they are worth. The Dreamers are exactly such a lunch.

  389. Pucker August 3, 2013 at 10:33 pm #

    It is foreseeable that many readers on this blog and other blogs clicked on the Guy McPherson blog link which in the relevant mass sur..ve illance software might have triggered an alert which forced one of the 850,000 contractors (that the N…SA allegedly employs to monitor us) to put down his tuna fish sandwich and look at? Hard to say…..

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  390. Pucker August 3, 2013 at 10:40 pm #

    There may be an ongoing kind of cyber warfare going on?

    For example, the Chinese block a particular website, and the Americans respond. Who knows? But I’m sure that the Americans take an interest in which sources of information that the Chinese try to block.

  391. janet August 3, 2013 at 10:49 pm #

    Pucker said: “Americans take an interest in which sources of information that the Chinese try to block.”

    Are you sure? I suspect “they” don’t care what the Chinese block. You have some inside information?

  392. Pucker August 3, 2013 at 10:59 pm #

    Janet wrote: “Are you sure? I suspect “they” don’t care what the Chinese block. You have some inside information?”

    Does shit stink?

    Of course the Americans care what information the Chinese block. That’s what “They” do.

  393. Pucker August 3, 2013 at 11:01 pm #

    Pucker wrote: “Does shit stink?”

    Please don’t answer this rhetorical question.

    I once had an American bloke respond that “not all shit stinks.”

    Shit stinks—trust me…it stinks…..

  394. janet August 3, 2013 at 11:01 pm #

    What’s up with all the talk about Al Qaeda making revenge attacks on the USA in August? It seems Obama’s drone attacks and murders of civilians are not going to go without response if all the reports are to be believed. The reports could be disinformation. Islam is a religion of peace, but Muslims will strike back when attacked. We know that.

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    • handyman August 3, 2013 at 11:19 pm #

      I do believe you’re trolling now. I lived in Egypt when I was a kid. They (muslims) aren’t any more peaceful than your average christians. As for Al Queda, Islam means about as much as being Catholic did to the IRA. It’s not about religion, it’s about power and politics.

    • Nastarana August 4, 2013 at 8:07 am #

      There are some indications that the Muslim Brotherhod, not Al Quaeda, were planning some kind of orchestrated overthrow of, at the very least, northern African govts. in order to establish the modern caliphate. I have seen some talk about this on odd corners of the internet. Speculation, take it for what it might be worth.

      It does seem to be clear that the Egyptian military took down President Morsi because he was planning to order the army to attack BOTH Ethiopia, over the proposed new dam on the Blue Nile, and Syria. It is a matter of record that the Egyptian Army issued a statement, a few days before the recent coup, to the effect that the duty of the Egyptian Army is to defend the borders of Egypt, not attack other countries in the region, especially not Syria, another Moslem country.

  395. janet August 3, 2013 at 11:04 pm #

    Pucker: “Of course the Americans care what information the Chinese block.”

    You do know how large China is, right? How many people do you think the USA dedicates to whether or not a soap opera is being blocked in Turpan or Kashgar?

  396. Pucker August 3, 2013 at 11:13 pm #

    Janet wrote: “You do know how large China is, right? How many people do you think the USA dedicates to whether or not a soap opera is being blocked in Turpan or Kashgar?”

    Very few Americans can read Chinese. The number of Chinese that can read Englsh vs. white Americans that can read Chinese is probably 10,000-to-1.

  397. janet August 3, 2013 at 11:31 pm #

    handyman: “could you tell me when the cutoff should be or is this going to be a perpetual problem?”

    I guess that’s the difference between you and me. I see immigrants as the solution and the future of America, not the “problem” … and I don’t want a cutoff. The more brains we have, the more taxpayers we have, the better.

    It is ironic: when there is a level playing field, some people complain. They want the game rigged in favor of people from a certain nation of origin, or a certain civil status, or a certain race, or a certain sexual orientation, etc.

    When the playing field is level, those who can’t compete begin to want restrictions, instead of just letting the most qualified persons get the jobs, regardless of who they are or where they were born.

    Here is the reality some people on CFN don’t want to accept: we are not members of tribes anymore. We are global citizens. You can cry and scream and throw temper tantrums all you want; or you can try to discriminate, try to take the country back 200 years. But progress is always forward, not going back to tribes.

    Those who want to stay tribal and whine about immigrants will be left behind and eventually die off. The younger generation is not as provincial.

    • handyman August 4, 2013 at 12:01 am #

      No, it’s not about all that, Janet, it’s about enough for everyone. Finite resources, you grok? Brain-draining other countries isn’t very neighborly either.
      As for tribes, well, from your prior posts you don’t seem much into the concept of the Long Emergency so I’ll overlook your lack of thought about what that might entail. Suffice to say, tribalism, the clan system or Union Grove are some of the options some of us are considering in the future.

      • handyman August 4, 2013 at 12:10 am #

        Also check out the Archdruid Report. He’s got some very good thoughts about progress as a civil religion…that’s dying.

        • Janos Skorenzy August 4, 2013 at 1:17 am #

          Meanwhile Black assault Whites at will all over America – but you’re afraid of White Racists. Dumb.

          • handyman August 4, 2013 at 5:16 pm #

            I don’t really know about the rest of the ‘States but down here that sort of thing doesn’t happen. Some sort of christian identity cult had a rally not far from here a few months ago. Most of us, both white and black, were kinda embarrassed for them. Not only because hardly anyone showed up, but it was akin to watching a drunkard piss themselves at a bar. You know that they know better, but it’s sort of a character weakness that you try to overlook because we all fuck up now and again. And no, I wouldn’t describe how I feel as fear of racists, more like the caution I would feel around any sort of venomous critter, like a cottonmouth, for instance.

  398. Pucker August 3, 2013 at 11:57 pm #

    Janet wrote: “…we are not members of tribes anymore. We are global citizens. ”

    Not for long….

    They are teaching history and reporting the news in a way so as to divide us as that gives them a platform, and, therefore, moral authority and power.

  399. Pucker August 4, 2013 at 12:02 am #

    “Dancing with my baby ’til the night is gone…
    Saturday night….
    Saturday night….
    Dance’n to all that groovy Rock ‘N Roll….
    Saturday night…
    Saturday night…
    I yay , yay, yay…
    I gotta score….
    I yay, yay, yay…
    I’m gonna let her know….”

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  400. Pucker August 4, 2013 at 12:06 am #

    I wouldn’t be surprised if because of language imbalance the Americans basically get the Chinese to monitor the Chinese internet. After all, the Chinese are cheaper.

    Totally insane…..

    • handyman August 4, 2013 at 5:19 pm #

      Hell, we outsource everything else…

  401. Pucker August 4, 2013 at 12:09 am #

    Here’s “God’s Man” for this hour…Ernest Angley……

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t10QeZySnFw&list=PLhzuwlvKrNX7btE4M-mdmlXdN8bkddg_b

  402. janet August 4, 2013 at 12:16 am #

    Pucker said: The number of Chinese that can read Englsh vs. white Americans that can read Chinese is probably 10,000-to-1.

    The decentralized nature of the internet makes it impossible for China (or any other country) to censor all communication.

    The lack of Americans who speak Chinese only makes it that much more difficult for the USA. Even if an American is fluent or a Chinese native, other Chinese users can use homophones or near homophones to avoid detection or censorship. Some Chinese hosting services explicitly offer to change a blog’s IP address within 30 minutes if it is blocked by the authorities.

    Other Chinese use steganography, the practice of embedding useful data in what looks like something irrelevant. The text of a document can be broken into its constituent bytes, which are added to the pixels of an apparently innocent picture. The effect is barely visible on the picture, but the recipient can extract it with the right software.

    There are lots of ways to evade censorship or intercept of communication here or in China. If you want to communicate, authorities (NSA or CCP) cannot stop you. The Great Chinese Firewall is permeable.

  403. Pucker August 4, 2013 at 12:20 am #

    Do you remember during the Iran-Contra hearings when the US Senator asked Richard Secord whether in selling US missiles to the Iranians, he was trying to serve the cause of freedom in Nicaragua, or whether he was trying to make a huge profit?

    Secord responded: “Both”…..

    He was making a huge profit by selling US missiles to the Ayatollah.

    • anti dod August 4, 2013 at 1:15 am #

      And Clinton, governor of Arkansas, how does he figure into this?

  404. janet August 4, 2013 at 12:24 am #

    handyman said: Finite resources, you grok?

    No, this is the part I don’t grok.

    So far, every time we run out of a resource we manage to find a substitute. Not to mention that we lived for millions of years with wind and water power and could go back to wind and water power if coal or oil or NG runs out. Sure, we’ll also have to go back to the population base of those times, but just saying Finite resources, you grok? is like uttering a mantra or repeating a dogma and does not explain anything.

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    • handyman August 4, 2013 at 8:53 am #

      “Sure, we’ll also have to go back to the population base of those times, but just saying Finite resources, you grok? is like uttering a mantra or repeating a dogma and does not explain anything.

      Seems that you do grok the meaning of finite resources after all. It IS a simple concept and easily verified by someone with such superior google-fu skills as yourself. As you appear to be a true believer of the religion of infinite progress, I understand how this would trouble you. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch, ain’t it.

      • ozone August 4, 2013 at 9:47 am #

        Not so much of a bitch for someone who gets paid to engage in it as a professional strategy. 😉

  405. Pucker August 4, 2013 at 12:29 am #

    Janet wrote: “Other Chinese use steganography, the practice of embedding useful data in what looks like something irrelevant. The text of a document can be broken into its constituent bytes, which are added to the pixels of an apparently innocent picture. The effect is barely visible on the picture, but the recipient can extract it with the right software.”

    Jesus..H…Christ…..

    And what-the-fuck is a “Homophone”? A pink iPhone for homosexuals?

  406. Q. Shtik August 4, 2013 at 12:29 am #

    Yes, this blog is powerful. “They” live in fear of this blog and its power, which is why “they” opened up the blocked website when “they” read what you posted here. Good work, Pucker.

    This^ gave me my best laugh of the evening.

    My wife said “WHAT the HELL are you LAUGHING at??”

  407. Pucker August 4, 2013 at 12:41 am #

    I’m thinking of become a goat herder as my doomsday Collapse exit strategy, but I heard somewhere that goat herders have a propensity to have sex with the more attractive goats in their flock, similar to the way that charismatic evangelical preachers tend so have sex with members of their cult.

    • Janos Skorenzy August 4, 2013 at 1:25 am #

      Traditionally Satan is portrayed as a Goat having intercourse with a woman. But you will reverse this thus 666 becomes 999.

      • Elmendorf August 4, 2013 at 5:44 am #

        The funny thing about oversexed people that can get it any time they want it (Hollywood stars, sports stars, etc.) actually not only die SOONER than the Abels of the world and their relationships are the shits … if a Hollywood couple stays together for 10 years its like it should be noted in the Smithsonian Institution.

        I used to reject Buddhism because of its assertion that desire was the source of man’s torment. Wanting creates a hunger and a satiated want only feeds the desire for more satiation. I thought Buddhism was an artificial way of pretending that we don’t want … a deadening of desire. However, the more you read great Buddhist thought it’s all about OBSERVATION just like Siddhartha performed. You see people left, right, and center running around like chickens with their heads cut off because they go from partial, unsatisfying satiations to the next “thrill” … which is also unsatisfying.

        Buddhism does not involve the deadening of instincts but rather keeping the mind clear so that one can observe the practical results of pursuit of satiation of wants. When you spend decades watching the results of people wanting more, more, more one tends, quite naturally, to become a sannyasin who quits this unstoppable game and learns to observe how the simple life delivers while the acquisitive life only leads to boredom, world weariness, unquenchable thirsts, and only the most fleeting moments of orgasmic pleasure.

        E.

      • Janos Skorenzy August 4, 2013 at 2:54 pm #

        Yes, it’s a beautiful story. That and Steppenwolf are my Hesse favorites. As a young lad, I was entranced by the pictures on the covers even before I could understand the books. They were so “evil”, so mysterious. As Demian said, I worship a God who is both a God and a Devil. His name is Abrasxas.

        This antinominal morality can be taken too far, but there is wisdom in in. Much that people think is good, isn’t. And much that people think is evil, isn’t. Sure the commandments are Ok, but they have to be properly interpreted and understood. One could be utterly evil and be keeping all of them in a conventional sense.

  408. janet August 4, 2013 at 12:50 am #

    Pucker, this article explains homophones:

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2011/06/chinese-censorship

    Another way to defeat computer algorithms is to simply devise analogies. If we have an agreement that when I say “x” (for example, “pencils”) you will understand I really am talking about “y” (for example, suitcase nukes) then we can communicate and no NSA algorithm will be the wiser. It is impossible for government computers to be programmed to detect what is really being communicated because they don’t know what common words we have agreed upon and what they really represent for us. It is really so easy for humans to defeat the government internet censors. You don’t even need 256-bit encryption.

    • Elmendorf August 4, 2013 at 6:12 am #

      So you’re in the Philippines, eh? I don’t understand why anyone would want to live in a population sink in Asia with ungodly humidity and bugs out the wazoo. The Philippines has 97 million people. It’s the 73rd largest country in the world with the 12th highest population. No thanks.

      I agree with your sentiments about cell phones which is why I didn’t get one until I was 56 and now I’m buried anonymously in someone’s friends and family plan and rarely use the phone.

      Since I’ve worked all my adult life with computers, taught statistics and computer science, and know a fair bit about algorithms I can only chuckle that you think algorithms can look for code word exchanges in PETABYTE sized exchanges between people. You were a spook your whole life and I have WORKED with them most of my life and they think they know far, far more than they actually do.

      Two teenaged Chechens killed people in a Boston Marathon full of surveillance cameras and thousands of onlookers. If they weren’t young and stupid they had about 36 hours to get the fuck out of the USA and didn’t manage. They were dumbshits but the bigger dumbshits are people who think we can actually create a “Security State”. All we’re creating is state apparatus that allows well connected people to steal the little bit of wealth still left in the United States.

      Trust me … the NSA knows they can’t stop shit but it’s their job, as is the job of ALL government contractors, to bullshit the government into believing in their omniscience. I did spook work at SRI and Rand Corporation and it was a joke among computer scientists that their annual contract renewal was coming up so they had to fool some dumb fuck from the government that their nifty software was “almost done” and they just need one more year of contract extension.

      I doesn’t sound like the spooks you worked with in the Philippines were on the scientific front lines. The Kafkaesque nature of the “Security State” consists of the hubris that we can secure our country with data snooping and algorithms. It’s techno-egotism of the highest order.

      E.

      • Nastarana August 4, 2013 at 8:21 am #

        Thank you for partially confirming my instincts. I have never been able to take surveillance seriously.

        In civilian life, what is most apparent is workplace surveillance What a joke that is! The same idiot supervisors who were willing to overlook sworn testimony from multiple sources about the negligence of their favorites are not about to pay any attention to photographic evidence either.

        As for public surveilance, I don’t have anything to hide, do you?

      • ozone August 4, 2013 at 10:04 am #

        “All we’re creating is state apparatus that allows well connected people to steal the little bit of wealth still left in the United States.” -E.

        Blammo!! …and the broad side of the barn is nicely perforated!
        🙂

  409. Pucker August 4, 2013 at 1:08 am #

    “Ah soooo….”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPqW3bcbDbA

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  410. janet August 4, 2013 at 1:09 am #

    Q said: My wife said “WHAT the HELL are you LAUGHING at??”

    I’m not sure I understand the caps. Does your wife speak with a vocal fry or are the caps suppose to represent uptalk?

  411. Janos Skorenzy August 4, 2013 at 1:11 am #

    Swat Team kills Giggles the Baby Deer. He wasn’t allowed to be where he was and the fact that he was being moved the next day was no excuse.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2383672/They-killed-Bambi-15-armed-agents-storm-animal-shelter-euthanize-baby-deer-called-Giggles-local-law-forbids-keeping-wildlife.html?ico=ushome%5Eeditors_choice_six_of_the_best

  412. anti dod August 4, 2013 at 1:16 am #

    Fighting for Freedom

    The American anti-jihadists Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer have recently been banned from entering the UK. This came as no surprise to politically aware Brits. Thanks to mass immigration, we have little free speech left here: Muslims and other non-whites despise it and happily collaborate with our hostile liberal elite in destroying it. But mass immigration also threatens the First Amendment in the US. Fortunately, Pamela Geller is one of the foremost defenders of the First Amendment. However, the blogger Irish Savant claims to have detected an inconsistency in her application of her core principles

    • Janos Skorenzy August 4, 2013 at 1:21 am #

      Pam is pro-Israel. Her philosophy: why should the Chosen get their hands dirty fighting the Muslims when we can get Whites to do it for us? Thus the English Defence League is Pro-Gay, Pro-Israel, and Pro-Immigrant, but not Pro-White or Pro-Christian. They have Rabbis give lectures on a regular basis.

  413. Janos Skorenzy August 4, 2013 at 1:49 am #

    The use of aborted fetuses is growing in both the cosmetic an food industries. You may be eating dead babies and not even know it – like if you drink Pepsi. And Planned Parenthood says Abortion is “unfortunate”. Bullshit – it’s big money.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zpeZMGDRwY

    • Janos Skorenzy August 4, 2013 at 2:56 pm #

      Look at how much like an Alien he looks. Do you understand now? Why is he illegal and killed, and the Beaners welcomed?

  414. janet August 4, 2013 at 2:06 am #

    of course like the APPLE deal this week the USA is banning old PHONES to force everyone to MOVE to the new tracking phones 24/7 that cannot remove battery or SIM.

    For a life long spook, you are a bit behind the times, too.

    There is no ban on old APPLE phones. The Obama administration has vetoed a decision by the U.S. International Trade Commission to ban the import of certain Apple products to the U.S. on the grounds they infringed a Samsung Electronics technology patent.

    In its decision Saturday, the administration said banning the products, which include older models of the iPhone and iPad, would be against the U.S. public interest. It cited concerns that patents essential to implementing technology standards, or so-called standards essential patents (SEPs), can be used to harm competition.

    “Licensing SEPs on [fair and reasonable terms] is an important element of the Administration’s policy of promoting innovation and economic progress and reflects the positive linkages between patent rights and standards setting,” the administration’s trade representative, Michael Froman, wrote in his decision.

    But I congratulate you for getting out of Dodge.

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  415. janet August 4, 2013 at 2:12 am #

    But I congratulate you for getting out of Dodge.

    And I hope you are not depending on stocks, bonds, a retirement pension, social security checks or any kind of USA government “entitlement” for your living expenses in the Philippines. Listen to JHK this week: we only have a few more months before TSHTF.

  416. janet August 4, 2013 at 3:09 am #

    2:38 a.m.
    Let me tell you a little secret, virtually every country in SE-ASIA has already exited the US=DOLLAR and gone YUAN.

    2:21 a.m.
    US government military power is controlled by the US treasury to maintain the US dollar as reserve currency

    Conclusion:
    The US military has failed in SE-Asia. (see 2:38 a.m. comment above)

  417. Elmendorf August 4, 2013 at 5:18 am #

    Almost without notice the House and Senate passed H.R. 347 … a bill that makes protests ILLEGAL if any Secret Service agents are present. It gets worse. If you protest around a venue of “national significance” (and guess what, YOU don’t get to define what “national significance” means), you can also be arrested.

    Unbelievably, all but THREE people in the House voted for this POS and the Senate passed it UNANIMOUSLY. Thus, the FIRST AMENDMENT is now toast along with the FOURTH. It’s high time to really think hard about getting the fuck out of here.

    The noose of the Stasi State gets tighter and tighter around our necks. Your elected representatives just sold your right to protest anything significant right down the river and they can arrest you and put you in jail for a year for doing so.

    Still think it’s a two party system? They’re both putting you in shackles and the news media are scarcely covering it.

    E.

  418. Elmendorf August 4, 2013 at 6:32 am #

    Sorry, dude, but I’m not buying your Asian Utopia bullshit. The Asia Development Bank says that 37 of 49 Asian countries face water shortages and/or lack of basic sanitation for water supplies.

    The Philippines just happens to be enjoying growth which is outstripping all of Asia so your viewpoint is skewed by your immediate surroundings. This cannot last when European and American consumption slow down since they consume the vast bulk of Asian-produced goods.

    You speak as if from a high “throne” with omniscient knowledge but even Art Bell preferred Pahrump, Nevada to the typhoons, dense population, and lousy weather of the Philippines and Bell is no jingoist. I would not want to live in a part of the world where the population density is ten times higher than the United States. I ain’t buying it.

    E.

  419. Elmendorf August 4, 2013 at 6:38 am #

    Well, at least you’re riding a bike and not adding to the SUPERLATIVELY FILTHY AIR in the Philippines. Your buddies and you are probably like a self-reinforcing philosophical circle-jerk about Asia and the Philippines. Most people who visit these utopias can’t believe the pollution, filth, crowding (frenetic activity, noise, squabbling, weird noises from every direction).

    You speak of Asia “doing well” but if 37 of the 49 Asian-Pacific countries don’t even have piped water how fucking well can they be doing? I’d rather live in Norway and freeze my ass off than being in these Asian population cesspits.

    E.

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    • Elmendorf August 4, 2013 at 6:46 am #

      Oh, by the way, it’s hard as fuck to try to LIVE IN NORWAY because they don’t want outsiders nearly as much as outsiders want them. There are almost 4 million Filipinos in America and they are now the SECOND LARGEST Asian group in America after the Chinese. If it’s so goddamned nice in the Philippines, how come they’re coming here in droves?

      E.

  420. BackRowHeckler August 4, 2013 at 7:35 am #

    Hey Bilbo US fought a long, drawn out protracted war in the Philippines 1898-1913. About 6000 US soldiers dead and tens of thousands of Philippinos. Many thousands of soldiers also perished after they returned home from untreated tropical diseases they picked up in Asia. Very few veterans of the Philippine Insurrection or the Moro Wars lived a very long life. Early on US Commanders were all Civil & Indian War veterans and fought the Insurrectos in Luzon, and later the Moros in Mindanao, like they fought the Sioux and Apache on the western frontier. But as time progressed US weaponry improved (Maxim machine guns, 1903 bolt action rifles, 1911 .45 handguns) and the standout officers (Pershing, George Marshall, Benny Fuloius Douglas MacArthur) went on to command positions in the World Wars. About 200,000 US Soldiers served in the Philippines during this period. Its pretty much forgotten now. I started looking into it when I came across a grave in a local cemetery of a soldier with the 21st US Infantry killed in Luzon in March, 1899. Anyway, I was curious, any memory of these events remain in the Philippines? Any memorials? US cemeteries? Or has it all been overshadowed by events in WW2?

    –BRH

    • Janos Skorenzy August 4, 2013 at 3:01 pm #

      Rod Serling – great voice. And Space is red. Who knew?

  421. Carol Newquist August 4, 2013 at 8:01 am #

    It’s no coincidence this latest posting clusterfuck here at CFN comes on the heels of me posting that article from Herman called the Economics of the Rich. There could have been a healthy discussion surrounding it, but instead we get what we see for the past fifty or more posts; nonsense handed to you to discuss from your lords and masters. Even janet defies Herman’s wisdom by pointing to so-called solutions, i.e. policy prescriptions, developed and passed within already defined economic and political boundaries.

    Anybody want to guess what the Monday post will be about, specifically?

    http://www.businessinsider.com/rich-getting-richer-2013-4

    n case you were hoping that America’s three-decade-long trend toward extreme wealth inequality was starting to reverse itself, Pew has some bad news for you.

    Nothing has changed.

    The rich are still getting richer… and everyone else is still getting hosed.

    Pew’s latest data looked at how American households have fared since the depths of the recession.

    The richest 7% of American households–8 million with more than $836,000 in net worth–did quite well from 2009 to 2011.

    Their average net worth rose from $2.5 million to $3.2 million, a 28% jump.

    The other 93% of American households, meanwhile, lost out.

    Their average net worth dropped from a measly $140,000 to $134,000.

    In case that’s not depressing enough for you, take a look at what happened to the relative wealth shares of these two groups of households over the 2009-2011 period.

    The richest 7% of American households went from owning 56% of the country’s net worth to owning 63% of it. That left only 37% of the country’s net worth to everyone else.

    The problem, unfortunately, is that America’s growing wealth inequality is hurting the purchasing power of mainstream American consumers. And these consumers provide the spending that drives most of the economy. (Rich folks actually don’t spend that much as a percentage of the economy).

    So with “everyone else” getting hosed, the health of the overall economy is deteriorating. That’s hurting the ability of companies owned by the richest households to grow. And their lack of growth will eventually be reflected in the value of the stocks owned by the richest households. (Eek!)

    The part in bold is particularly interesting and somewhat perplexing to me. It does appear the Elite are killing the Goose that has laid all these Golden Eggs for so many years, so my question is, why? And please don’t give me the “they’re stupid and incompetent” bullshit excuse. Their wealth is not serendipitous and the result of stupidity or incompetence.

    • handyman August 4, 2013 at 9:09 am #

      Perhaps confirmation bias is the problem. Hey, their strategy has worked so far, hasn’t it?

    • godozo August 5, 2013 at 5:02 am #

      Simple: it’s being translated to power.

      Just look over the past twelve years. Ever since 9-11, we’ve been ceding rights for the impression of security, and with each ceding we’ve grown more and more fearful. That in itself will lead to a lowering of economic activity, but the rich will eventually walk around freely while the rest of us pray for time to pass so we can move from our jobs to our homes and vice-versa.

  422. Carol Newquist August 4, 2013 at 8:13 am #

    If it’s so goddamned nice in the Philippines, how come they’re coming here in droves?

    If “America” is as terrible as CFN, and the entire Doomer Community, claims it is, then why do they keep coming? Surely if it’s as bad as you all say it is, they would have sent the word back home that it’s simply not worth the gamble.

    Look at the Philippines. Look at Haiti. Both are satellites of “America” and both have a history of impoverishment and destitution. They are examples of what the rich plan to do to “America.” A handful of them (the fabulously wealthy) move on (evolve) whilst the rest atrophy from neglect, whittling away the aimless days creating beautiful art from the leftover scraps of a once thriving industrial empire and fashioning mud cakes and pies from the toxic soil for breakfast, lunch and dinner. And it will all be due to the stupidity of the morons like the people who post to CFN who can’t see past their own blinding prejudices. Get it through your thick skulls; you are the Haitians, you are the Filipinos.

    • Elmendorf August 5, 2013 at 12:49 am #

      Yes, American stupefaction is a FACT but we’re not yet at the level of the Filipinos or the Haitians. I actually agree with some of the sentiment of your post but when you equate us with those two cultures you break down into sensationalism … as usual. If it was backed by data, fine, but it isn’t. How many Haitian or Filipino Nobel Laurates have there been in Physics and Chemistry in the last, say, 50 years. The question answers itself.

      E.

  423. Carol Newquist August 4, 2013 at 8:44 am #

    Wow, so “lively” here on a Saturday night. Don’t you peeps have anybody?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOFjGMEEgZM

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    • Elmendorf August 5, 2013 at 12:51 am #

      Don’t us “peeps have anybody”??? Spoken by one of the most prolific posters on CFN who, along with Janet, have jibber-jabbered us to death. You really shouldn’t be accusatory when you’re the guiltiest of what you satirize.

      E.

  424. Nastarana August 4, 2013 at 12:25 pm #

    Topics which will likely not be covered in Monday’s CFN column include Syria, especially not the fact that the Syrian Army is winning, and probably not Egypt either, although there may be a passing reference to the State Dept. having issued a travel alert for just about the entire ME, with a number of American embassies in the region being closed till further notice. Oh my, no visas being issued. Mme.Clinton, with her Brotherhood connections, did not leave a day too soon.

    About the DA and immigration: You have only to read the recent screeds by our Miss Janet to see on display her contempt for her fellow citizens (I believe she is an American herself?). I think it is fair to suppose that the self styled housewife “has help” for the more onerous tasks of maintaining a home.

    Very few doubt that children brought to the USA without their consent, being children at the time, deserve to be allowed some kind of legal residence. It is when you get to the fine print, that the problems appear. The first iteration of this proposal was that the criterion for admission to citizenship was to be attending college.

    What? Attendance at college gets you citizenship? Are you freaking kidding me? Any gangbanger with an arrest record longer than my arm can “sign up for college classes” during the 6-18 months or so he is between jail terms. Heck, you can “sign up for college classes” in jail.

    I think the criterion ought to be graduation from HS and no arrest record. Not GED, mind you, but actual graduation. As in, 3-5 years of every day arrive at school on time, turn in your homework whether you feel like it or not, refrain from insulting your teachers and don’t get in fights with fellow students, or if you do, take it off campus. Asian kids manage to do just that, as do many others of many different ethnicities and backgrounds. If we need new citizens at all, we need them to be sober and responsible good kids, not fast talkers with a lot of style and pizzazz who can’t be trusted.

    I do not think that legal status of some kind for the DA kids them- selves needs to be a get in free card for daisy chains of extended family. The kids have been living in the USA for nearly their entire lives, right, so it is hardly a hardship to not be able to live with relatives they have not seen in years, if ever.

    As for, corporations need to fill jobs now–what kind of high techie does Caterpillar need, I thought they made tractors, not computers?–

    No. Corporations need to be compelled to operate in the public interest or face losing their charters. Public interest includes hiring local residents, with training programs if needed.

    There is no doubt that we need a thorough revamp of public education, starting with the dumbed down curriculum. IMHO, that bastard child of a liar and a tramp, “social studies”, needs to be scrapped altogether and replaced with separate study of civics, geography and history.

    • Nastarana August 4, 2013 at 12:53 pm #

      Corporations sitting on uninvested cash can and should be subjected to an undistributed profits tax.

      • handyman August 4, 2013 at 5:33 pm #

        I think you’ve pretty much nailed it.

  425. alpha mail August 4, 2013 at 12:48 pm #

    Puck sez:”Very few Americans can read Chinese. The number of Chinese that can read Englsh vs. white Americans that can read Chinese is probably 10,000-to-1″

    How many black americans can read Chinese? No, wait,…How many black americans can…….read? Maybe we should ax Rachel “I doan ree no cursive” Jeantele?

    • anti dod August 4, 2013 at 12:57 pm #

      AM, most Blacks in Detroit are illiterate.
      According to Tom Sowell [or was the info in ‘Bell Curve’?] many police in DC cannot do the paperwork. Cant read or write.

      • alpha mail August 4, 2013 at 1:17 pm #

        Being able to read and write are just so uncool. Peak inside any elementary school classroom these days and witness teachers pleading and cajoling Tyrone and Lateefuh to pay attention, using all sorts of routines that would put a Vaudevillian to shame. It ain gwine hapin.

        • alpha mail August 4, 2013 at 1:19 pm #

          “PeeK”

        • Janos Skorenzy August 4, 2013 at 2:59 pm #

          We are at or approaching Peak Racism. Now is the time to speak the Truth to Power: Blacks are not our equals. We tore our Nation to pieces for a Lie – one that the Elite knew to be so in all probability.

        • anti dod August 4, 2013 at 5:47 pm #

          Babysitters that get 30k [Maine] to 100k [some states] per year!

  426. alpha mail August 4, 2013 at 1:11 pm #

    Karl Denninger 8/3/13 sez:

    “(if someone could prove that) Stand and deliver” lecture style teaching of the basics of language, arithmetic, science and literature that took place in the 1940s, 50s and 60s was replaced and supplanted and we got better results as a consequence I might be willing to listen.

    But you can’t make that argument.

    Remember that “stand and deliver” put men on the moon, brought us the calculator, personal computer and in fact virtually all of what we enjoy today.

    In Chicago when I ran my Internet company ninety percent of the people who applied for entry-level jobs at my company and had “diplomas” were unable to calculate using a pencil and paper the sales tax on an item and make change for a $20 when offered as payment for same. That same ninety percent were unable to write a single-paragraph business letter displaying the proper placement of the address block, a salutation, proper grammar and spelling in telling a customer that their service was interrupted for non-payment of their bill, politely asking for same.

    I had a lateral file four-high and nearly 10′ long of failed applicants tests — I kept every single one as a defense against being accused of “racism” or some other sort of similar crap.”
    ********

    Don’t dare suggest that dumping lots of $$$$ toward education does nothing, and I do mean NOTHING, to encourage kids who do…NOT…WANT…TO..LEARN (ANYTHING) and you will be called a “raciss”. or maybe jus a “weird white cracka”.

    • anti dod August 4, 2013 at 5:43 pm #

      Yes, I see this in college students ‘writings’. Especially if they are foreign born. [no need to learn the enemies language].

    • Elmendorf August 5, 2013 at 12:45 am #

      The “everybody goes to college” mentality has RUINED colleges. People had better sense in the 1960s when they realized that little Bobby was “not college material”.

      Since Joe Schmoe is now going to college, the content of classes is getting watered down, hence our increasing lack of competiveness.

      E.

  427. alpha mail August 4, 2013 at 1:36 pm #

    Are you smarter than an 8th grader? Chances are, by today’s standards, you are. If, however, you want to toss “progress” and all the “benefits” of integration out the window, maybe not. So let’s turn back the hands of time to a less “enlightened” era, where good grades were awarded, not given, to those who could actually…THINK, and not just given out to those who managed to warm a seat without pulling a gun or knife on a teacher or fellow student:

    EXAMINATION GRADUATION QUESTIONS
    OF SALINE COUNTY, KANSAS
    April 13, 1895
    J.W. Armstrong, County Superintendent.

    Examinations at Salina, New Cambria, Gypsum City, Assaria, Falun, Bavaria, and District No. 74 (in Glendale Twp.)

    Reading and Penmanship. – The Examination will be oral, and the Penmanship of Applicants will be graded from the manuscripts

    Grammar (Time, one hour)

    1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
    2. Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no modifications.
    3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
    4. What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of do, lie, lay and run.
    5. Define Case, Illustrate each Case.
    6. What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.
    7-10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.

    Arithmetic (Time, 1.25 hours)

    1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
    2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
    3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50 cts. per bu, deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
    4. District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
    5. Find cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
    6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
    7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $.20 per inch?
    8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
    9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance around which is 640 rods?
    10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.

    U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)

    1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided.
    2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
    3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
    4. Show the territorial growth of the United States.
    5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
    6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
    7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
    8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, and 1865?

    Orthography (Time, one hour)

    1. What is meant by the following: Alphabet, phonetic orthography, etymology, syllabication?
    2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
    3. What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
    4. Give four substitutes for caret ‘u’.
    5. Give two rules for spelling words with final ‘e’. Name two exceptions under each rule.
    6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
    7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: Bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, super.
    8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: Card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
    9. Use the following correctly in sentences, Cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
    10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.

    Geography (Time, one hour)

    1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
    2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
    3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
    4. Describe the mountains of N.A.
    5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco.
    6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
    7. Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each.
    8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
    9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
    10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give inclination of the earth.

    Health (Time, 45 minutes)

    1. Where are the saliva, gastric juice, and bile secreted? What is the use of each in digestion?
    2. How does nutrition reach the circulation?
    3. What is the function of the liver? Of the kidneys?
    4. How would you stop the flow of blood from an artery in the case of laceration?
    5. Give some general directions that you think would be beneficial to preserve the human body in a state of health

    Eighth grade, folks! Eighth, freakin grade! I’d be willing to bet that more than 90% of today’s eighth graders would be unable to READ this test, let alone pass it. Oh, and BTW, thanks to today’s “enlightened”pedigogy,students who qualify don’t even have to READ the math part of their final exam. It’s read TO THEM!

    • BleatToTheBeat August 4, 2013 at 7:15 pm #

      I want to reply to the “Health” questions.

      Let’s see if you know what a Basic Training graduate knows.

      How do you immediately treat a sucking chest wound?

      You only have about thirty seconds to type your “dubya dubya dubya” inquiry and act.

      How many guns are in this country?

    • Janos Skorenzy August 4, 2013 at 8:14 pm #

      Remember, our school system was designed for Whites not for Hispanics or Black Americans. The average IQ for these two groups is 90 and 85 respectively. The IQ of the pure Negro is a whopping 70, retarded by our standards.

  428. janet August 4, 2013 at 2:16 pm #

    alpha mail said, and I quote verbatim:

    Don’t dare suggest that dumping lots of $$$$ toward education does nothing

    In other words, throwing money at education is effective.

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  429. janet August 4, 2013 at 2:25 pm #

    alpha mail said, and I quote verbatim:

    thanks to today’s “enlightened”pedigogy

    alpha mail, please stop now. You are not one to be speaking about today’s education.

  430. anti dod August 4, 2013 at 5:41 pm #

    Janos,

    Can you provide links w/o gruesome photos/

    The use of aborted fetuses is growing in both the cosmetic an food industries. You may be eating dead babies and not even know it – like if you drink Pepsi.

    And Planned Parenthood says Abortion is “unfortunate”.

    Bullshit – it’s big money.

    • Janos Skorenzy August 4, 2013 at 8:04 pm #

      Negative. This is all new to me as well. The movie was one of the winners of Alex Jones’s Paul Revere contest. You might be able to find more on his youtube channel.

      Remember the gruesome photos are reality. Do you have the right not to look? I remind of the ancient yogic practice of contemplating corpses in various states of decay.

  431. BleatToTheBeat August 4, 2013 at 6:30 pm #

    Did someone say “The Fan?”

    I’m The Fan.

    Want to know what “The Shit” is?

    Well, I’ll tell ya.

    Squirrels.

    OZONE! ….help me.

    I’m an incurable Squirrel Squasher.

    The Shame….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTIaRZYdGJo

    • ozone August 4, 2013 at 8:57 pm #

      Noooooooooooo!
      Now you’ve gone and done it. It’s stuck back in my head now too!
      I’m a squirrel squasher,
      I’m a squirrel squasher;
      Squashin’ squirrels all day,
      Hey, hey, hey….

      Damn you Bleaty, you possess genius, but it’s an evil genius… pure evil I tell you!!

      • BleatToTheBeat August 4, 2013 at 11:41 pm #

        Here comes one now…

  432. BleatToTheBeat August 4, 2013 at 6:48 pm #

    Art imitating Life.

    Or, perhaps some obvious artistic prescience.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKKMdmPBWRk

  433. Janos Skorenzy August 4, 2013 at 8:10 pm #

    Oh how the mighty have fallen. Dancing liturgical fags, Bishops no less, but just 3rd rate fags who can’t even dance. But no one could or should dance to this kind of muzak. All the more shameful considering the musical heritage of the Church.

    http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/b67d9d84bcbc15f836c295195c8f5025-129.html

    Dance has no place in Christian worship. That’s just the way it is. It can in Hinduism which is grounded in a way Christianity isn’t.

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    • BleatToTheBeat August 4, 2013 at 8:38 pm #

      That depends on what you worship.

      Here’s some dancing grounded in the….uh….ground.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iDTsCSaXgU

      • Janos Skorenzy August 4, 2013 at 9:32 pm #

        Yes, he’s very good. His movement is joyful and sure and is for a purpose, namely baseball. Contrast his movement with the confused, hesitant, ridiculous movement of the priests. They obviously are men who have no physical training. Why would they since Dance has no place in Catholic worship? This is being imposed on them by the bureacrats of the inane Vatican Two Church – and they lack the intellect and/or character to reject it.

  434. Pucker August 4, 2013 at 8:11 pm #

    Are there any rhetorical questions on the US college entrance “Scholastic Aptitude Test”?

    Eventually, they’ll come up with a way for people to merge with the Internet, and then all the young people will voluntary upload their minds onto the Internet in order to experience perpetual simultaneous male and female orgasms which are only possible if people transcend their bodies.

    • BleatToTheBeat August 4, 2013 at 8:39 pm #

      Wow.

      Where do I sign up?

  435. alpha mail August 4, 2013 at 8:12 pm #

    Wow! A whole five hours and no postings by “Carol”,”Janet”? I thought they OWNED the god damned site. Oh, wait, I guess “they” “he”, “she”, “it” just THOUGHT that!

  436. Pucker August 4, 2013 at 8:38 pm #

    The TV Fashion Guru says that next year straitjackets are going to be making “A Big Comeback”.

    • ozone August 4, 2013 at 9:01 pm #

      How would one accessorize a garment that makes such a bold statement? Will there be fabric options other than the plain bleached canvas? I was thinking something in a rich crushed velvet would be simply divine!

  437. Pucker August 4, 2013 at 9:08 pm #

    Next year, I plan on wearing a tie with my tailor-made straitjacket so that I don’t stand out too much. But if I want to a really bold statement, I may wear a bow tie and a Party membership pin on the right shoulder of my straitjacket.

  438. Pucker August 4, 2013 at 9:14 pm #

    What about wearing Spurs on one’s boots to a formal dinner or cocktail “Mixer”? Is this too “Bold”?

    I want to be noticed while not appearing too obvious. I’m thinking that the spurs would be both inconspicuous (because no one looks at one’s shoes), while attracting attention from the jingling sound that spurs make. Any thoughts? Thank you.

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  439. Pucker August 4, 2013 at 9:41 pm #

    About a year ago on CNN’s “Fashion Week”, I was watching a fashion show and on “The Runway” appeared this extremely “HOT” Russian woman wearing a see-through Islamic “Burga”. (I believe that it’s pronounced “Booger”.)

    The dress covered the female model’s entire body (head, face, everything), but it was completely transparent. Completely transparent except for her “HOT” panties and bra.

    It freaked me out.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa

    • BleatToTheBeat August 4, 2013 at 11:53 pm #

      Ask yourself “What would David Bowie do?”.

      Stop being such a pussy.

  440. Pucker August 4, 2013 at 10:36 pm #

    Bilbo Room 101 wrote: “Retired at 35, .. spent my entire life traveling Asia in search of martial-art masters.”

    Grasshopper…..

  441. Pucker August 4, 2013 at 10:39 pm #

    Master Po to Grasshopper: “When you can snatch the pebble from my hand, then you can leave the temple.”

    I never was able to snatch that damn pebble from Master Po’s hand.

    I know one monk who was finally able to snatch the pebble, but Master Po’s response was: “Let’s make it 2-out-of-3?!”

    Fuckers keep moving the goal posts!

    • BleatToTheBeat August 4, 2013 at 11:58 pm #

      Are you for real?

      Snatch the pebble from your hand?

      What if they just shoot yer ass?

      Got ‘yo pebble.

  442. BleatToTheBeat August 4, 2013 at 11:55 pm #

    I will code HTML for food.

    Will you be my Dad?

  443. BleatToTheBeat August 5, 2013 at 12:00 am #

    Wanna know what’s real?

    Here come the F-18’s.

    Regards,

    Bagh O’Douche

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  444. Elmendorf August 5, 2013 at 1:05 am #

    Well, Bimbo, I’m humbled and impressed by your candor and your drive to learn. I still read physics and mathematics at age 61 which is hard ’cause us old fucks don’t have the sponge-like ability to absorb at our age. Well done!!

    I never did believe in my “rights” because I’ve always felt that the government always felt that the Constitution was an impediment instead of the rule of natural law. So … I’ve never been duped into thinking that this was a land of laws rather than men.

    I taught “machine learning” when it was just part of AI but it’s fucking difficult statistics combined with top one percentile programming. If you’re reading that and understanding it … that’s impressive. Funny how a guy like you in the Philippines continues to absorb difficult stuff even though it doesn’t fit into the retiree profile. I say … GOOD ON YA.

    I’m one of the few people aside from you on this site who know about the NSA headquarters inviolability. Indeed, I know a place in San Francisco with two unmarked, unlabeled buildings where the NSA **only** processes Facebook data. Email is bad enough but FB? I have no idea why any citizen would want to use it but I guess ignorance is bliss.

    In retirement, I almost never use a cell phone and my career in cybernetics and statistics ended in 2011 when I retired and now I’m bored watching “Big Data” come to the fore ’cause its main usage is to come up with pattern matching algorithms that help the spook agencies do better spying on everyone.

    I’m afraid that, like some of your ex-spook pals, I’d be enjoying Jack on the rocks more than is good for me just to shut out of my mind what I know about our “Republic”. A sante’!!

    E.

    • Elmendorf August 5, 2013 at 1:06 am #

      I meant “Bilbo”, not “Bimbo” … although you have to admit it’s kind of a funny Freudian slip.

      E.

  445. Janos Skorenzy August 5, 2013 at 1:17 am #

    Wrestling is the ultimate martial art, at least at the ordinary non-supernatural level. You can’t beat Gracie Jujitsu unless you have the death touch all other things being equal.

  446. ozone August 5, 2013 at 8:47 am #

    Many of us who visit here instinctively understand that we live in a HIGHLY dysfunctional society, with many of the entrenched institutions promoting and enhancing that dysfunction. At this point, the levers of power are overwhelmingly in the hands of psychopaths. The ‘public’ are just objects for their amusement as they play the biggest game of “Risk” ever designed. (Pushing the envelope of risk is one of the psychopaths greatest joys, even to the edge of suicide.)

    So now we are observers and victims; how we choose to conduct ourselves (collaboration or disconnection) will determine the future of how a society might function. Tyranny and ever-present threat of violence, or pragmatic co-existence where violence is rare but just in its’ employment.

    To be sure, an amalgam of factors will likely bring this country to fragmentation. A quick look at the expansion of the types of diseases carried by tick vector in our area should put us in mind of the multitudes of ‘black swans’ that, of course, we don’t even have a scent of yet. (It’s just great, we now have a strain of meningitis that can be transmitted in as little as five minutes of being bitten, and has a high mortality rate.)

    So… our power to convince or direct is limited to ourselves and perhaps a few surrounding friends and family. This is all we’re left with (as ‘representation’ is dead) and we’ll have to make do with that. We are where we are in the land of casual death-dealing, so yes, let’s acknowledge that aspect from the get-go. For most, there is no escape and we’ll have to deal with thuggery as we can.

  447. janet August 5, 2013 at 12:05 pm #

    E. said: Funny how a guy like you in the Philippines continues to absorb difficult stuff even though it doesn’t fit into the retiree profile. … I’m afraid that, like some of your ex-spook pals, I’d be enjoying Jack on the rocks more than is good for me…

    Funny how a guy who rides a bicycle on a small island (with only 200 people) could be so plugged in to an infrastructure (bicycle repair parts, ISP, computer, electricity, modem, etc.) that allows for continued research into the latest physics literature.

    An island so small it has no commercial activity whatsoever, no where to go to buy Jack on the rocks. Something does not compute.

    Bilbo=Asoka

    • Janos Skorenzy August 6, 2013 at 4:56 pm #

      So what? You are Asoka too. You think you are clever by you are just stupid.

  448. Janos Skorenzy August 6, 2013 at 5:00 pm #

    Yes, good point. Martial Arts is not a sport. But wrestling can kill too and quickly.

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  449. Karah August 7, 2013 at 12:56 pm #

    Globalism at the current scale has more cons than pros.

    Globalism will always be here in the way of informing us about the activities of national groups, climate and geology. However, the impact of these three things must be reduced. Nations must find a way to conduct their activities in a safe, fair and equitable way. Of course, reality dictates this can never happen in our current system of things.
    Therefore, all men can hope to do is slow things down by pouring oil on troubled waters*.
    _______

    *In earlier times, the pouring of modest quantities of oil into the sea was done deliberately in order to forestall rough seas. This phrase alludes to the calming effect of that oil has on wave action as it spreads over the surface of the sea. Very small quantities of oil can cover a surprisingly large area as it spreads into a layer just a few molecules in thickness. The surface tension of the oil layer has an effect similar to that of a thin skin and is highly effective at calming ‘troubled’ water.

    The calming effect of oil was known to the ancient Greeks. In 1762, Benjamin Franklin repeated an experiment first performed by Pliny, which he reported in A Letter from Benjamin Franklin to William Brownrigg, 1773:

    “At length being at Clapham, where there is on the common a large pond which I observed one day to be very rough with the wind, I fetched out a cruet of oil and dropped a little of it on the water. I saw it spread itself with surprising swiftness upon the surface; but the effect of smoothing the waves was not produced; for I had applied it first on the leeward side of the pond where the waves were greatest; and the wind drove my oil back upon the shore. I then went to the windward side where they began to form; and there the oil, though not more than a teaspoonful, produced an instant calm over a space several yards square which spread amazingly and extended itself gradually till it reached the lee side, making all that quarter of the pond, perhaps half an acre, as smooth as a looking glass.”

    http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/288150.html

    • Elmendorf August 8, 2013 at 12:23 am #

      With all due respect, Karah, globalism is a phenomenon which is on its way to extinction. Oh it’ll hang on for another five years or so but the writing is on the wall with $104/barrel oil despite the disinformation about a “surplus” of oil.

      The Web is the primary disseminator of illusions about globalism because it has global reach. However, as salaries continue to fall and everybody everywhere is a debt serf, they’ll be more interested in the Kardashians and the Super Bowl than Wikipedia or Google searches. Amazon relies on extensive shipping connections which are going to run dry as truckers leave the business.

      Today’s Yahoo Finance main page talked about the increasing dubiousness of a college degree because 52% of degree recipients are vastly underemployed. They cannot use their degrees.

      Globalism is the wet dream of the 1990s mentality and its run is a twilight phenomenon.

      E.

      • Karah August 8, 2013 at 3:43 pm #

        Yes, I agree. I think the internet will still exist despite the commercial limitations of it. I believe it will always exist as a means of communication between scientists, governments and the elite because that’s how it started. The INTERNET may morph into a utility in order to survive. It’s another aspect of the psychology of previous investment. Most people have ditched their landlines and cable t.v. for the internet and millions of dollars have been invested in fiber optic cable by Verizon.

        Whatever is going on in the middle east and egypt, they still have the internet.

        • Elmendorf August 9, 2013 at 5:43 am #

          Part of the psychology of previous investment lies in the trillions of lines of computer code, most haphazardly written web code, that has to be maintained. Most non-techies have no idea how close the Web is to be held together by chewing gum, bailing wire, and duct tape. Moreover, Web programming is boring as hell because most of the time you’re figuring out how to force irritating pop-up ads to appear on people’s visits to almost any blog, commercial site, or infotainment site. Wow … such a meaningful life but it’s your job if you work for a Web company.

          And new protocols pile on top of old and the whole edifice is a creaking mess of quasi-functionality. Personally, I’d ditch my cellphone waaaay before I’d ditch my landline. Cellphones are always hard to hear, they heat up your ear canal and irritate it, and they drop about one call in five or ten. The Internet gives the masses the delusion, which we also have here on CFN, that we can “change the world” with the Web. Nah. It’s just a great diversion so that we don’t notice the diminution of the quality of our lives quite so much.

          The older the Web gets, the closer the signal to noise ratio gets asymptotically close to zero.

          E.

  450. Elmendorf August 8, 2013 at 7:57 am #

    Bilbo,

    I’m willing to concede that life in the USA is stressful and that much social life is really phony and mean-tempered … because we’re mostly a spoiled people and life isn’t meeting our unjustifiably high standards these days. That said, I don’t buy that Asian tropical paradises are the way to go.

    The “friendliness” of the women you “lay” who are 1/2 your age is mostly an act because in California we have millions of Asians and one of the most pathetic types of creatures are engineers with Asian trophy wives whose prime objective is attaching themselves to the men’s WALLETS.

    I’ve heard dozens of guys try to convince me that places like Vietnam and so forth are heaven for guys. If that were true then how come the net outflows from those countries to the USA is much, much higher than the net migration from the USA to those countries. Different strokes for different folks but, personally, I’ve never been turned on by the mercantilism of Asian cultures or by the coquettish women in most of them.

    E.

    • Elmendorf August 8, 2013 at 8:04 am #

      Bilbo,

      Moving on to the rest of the substance of your posts …

      I have no problem with the truth of the idea that the US government is a scurrilous, bellicose, malicious entity. It’s mostly because our government reflects the increasing greed, narcissism, and vulgarity of the populace they govern. However, I do not now, nor will I ever, believe that if OTHER countries had our military power that they would be any less malevolent than we are.

      If China was a world empire, I guaran-fucking-tee you that they’d be as ruthless as Mao’s Cultural Revolution or Pol Pot. The USA is, of course, dead meat but we’re no more corrupt that a world full of pisspots and hellholes.

      E.

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