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Some Sunny Day

    The story behind the “fiscal cliff” melodrama and the much-memed handwringing about the “good-for-nothing congress” is probably not quite what it appears — a set of problems that will eventually be overcome by “better leadership” armed with “solutions.” The story is really about the permanent disabling of government at this scale and at this level of complexity. In other words, the federal government will never solve its obvious problems of mismanagement and bankruptcy and is now only in business to pretend that it can discharge its obligations (while employees enjoy the perqs). It’s just another form of show business.
     The same can be said of most of the state governments, too, of course, except that they have a lower capacity to pretend they can take care of anything. They can and will go bankrupt, and then they’ll go begging to the federal government to bail them out, which the federal government will pretend to do with pretend money. By then, though, the practical arrangements of daily life would probably be so askew that politics would take a new, darker, and more extreme turn –among other things, in the direction of secession and breakup.
     The wonder of it all is that there hasn’t been civil disorder yet. When I go into the supermarket, I marvel at the price of things: a single onion for a dollar, four bucks for a jar of jam, five bucks for a box of Cheerios, four bucks for a wedge of cheese. Is everybody except Jamie Dimon, Lloyd Blankfein, and Mark Zuckerberg living on store-brand macaroni and ketchup? It’s hard to measure the desperation of households in this culture of rugged individualism. At social gatherings friends rarely tell you that they are two months behind in their mortgage payment and maxed out on their credit cards. And that’s the supposed middle class, at least the remnants of it. I can’t tell you what the tattoo-and-falling-down-pants crowd talks about in the parking lot outside the 7-Eleven store. Perhaps they swap meth recipes.
     Civil disorder would at least mean something, a consensus of dissatisfaction about how life is lived. Instead, we only get mad outbursts of tragic meaninglessness: the slaughter of innocent children in school, or movie theater patrons mowed down by a lone maniac during the coming attractions. Life imitates art, as Oscar Wilde said, and these days television is our art. Hence the United States is now equal parts Jersey Shore, Buck Wild, the Kardashians, and Honey Boo Boo. That’s not really a lot to work with in terms of social capital, especially where radical politics might be called for. 
     Does anybody now breathing even remember radical politics? Whether you liked them or not — and I was not crazy about the whole “revolution” of the late 1960s, which I lived through — it at least represented a level of seriousness that is now absolutely and starkly absent today, especially in young people. Who, in the West, besides Julian Assange, has stuck his neck out in the past ten years? And please don’t tell me Ron Paul, who had ample opportunity in congressional hearings over the years to really call out the banksters and their government wankster errand boys, and all he ever did was nip around their trouser legs.
     So I stick to the point I made in The Long Emergency and again in Too Much Magic: expect America’s national and state governments to only become more ineffectual and impotent. They will never recover from the insults inflicted on themselves. Events are in the drivers seat, including things unseen, and the people pretending to be in charge have arranged things into such a state of fragility that accidents are sure to happen, especially involving the basic structures of money. In case you don’t know it yet, you’re on your own now. Put whatever energy you can muster into finding a community to be a part of.
     Meanwhile, reality stands by with mandates of its own. Do people like Barack Obama and John Boehner think we’re going to re-start another round of suburban expansion (a.k.a. the housing market)? That’s largely what the old economy was based on, and what Wall Street fed off of parasitically the past twenty years. That is so over. Do they believe that when absolutely every task in America is computerized there will be any gainful work outside of a sort of janitorial IT to tend all the computers. We’ve already seen what happens with the telephone system: after 30 years of techno-innovation in “communications,” it’s now impossible to get a live human being on the phone and robots call you incessantly during the dinner hour. Anyway, we don’t really have the energy resources to supply the electricity for all this crap indefinitely, or probably even another twenty years.
     All the tendencies and trends in contemporary life are reaching their limits at the same time, and as they do things will crack up and fall apart, whether it involves the despotic reach of a government, or a tyrannical corporation, or a hedge fund server farm stuffed with algo-crunching computers sucking the life out of every honest market transaction until the markets are zombies. The euphoria that greeted the end of the fiscal cliff ritual has settled back into the feckless collective state-of-mind that we call “bullish.” It’s all noise and the madness of crowds now. And black swans shitting on your head some sunny day. 
____________________________________

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About James Howard Kunstler

View all posts by James Howard Kunstler
James Howard Kunstler is the author of many books including (non-fiction) The Geography of Nowhere, The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition, Home from Nowhere, The Long Emergency, and Too Much Magic: Wishful Thinking, Technology and the Fate of the Nation. His novels include World Made By Hand, The Witch of Hebron, Maggie Darling — A Modern Romance, The Halloween Ball, an Embarrassment of Riches, and many others. He has published three novellas with Water Street Press: Manhattan Gothic, A Christmas Orphan, and The Flight of Mehetabel.

672 Responses to “Some Sunny Day” Subscribe

  1. xport January 6, 2013 at 10:46 pm #

    Man, you are freaking out. Here is a little blast from the past, when I was a kid growing up in New York City:Closer to the root.
    Back in 1955, walking home from Jackson Heights to Woodside, Long Island, NYC. After school one spring afternoon, I pass a construction site, with one of those red lattice fences that come up about waist high on an adult, but for me it is a real barricade. I remember it as a very busy avenue. The fence is on my right, and I am walking toward the afternoon sun, and I hope to get home before my mom freaks out and I get my ass kicked for being late, I linger for a while and admire the cranes and pile drivers that move the earth and set the foundations for new high rise buildings that are going up all around the area. Then I keep going, since it is still a long walk home. Then a hard hat guy hails me. “Hey kid, run across the street and get me a quart of beer. Here is a buck, you can keep the change.” Grabbing the buck, I dart thru traffic along Northern Boulevard and get to the deli, where I push the buck into the face of a beautiful young woman clerk’s face and tell her that the guy across the street wants a quart of Rheingold beer, so hurry up, because it is hot out, and he is very thirsty. She is very conflicted, saying that it is against the law to sell beer to a minor. I argue that she is not selling to me; she is selling it to buck hardhat, back across the street. She is flustered, but will not release the beer. So I go outside and yell across the street to thirsty guy, and tell him that he has a problem. He says go back and tell her to come out front, he needs to explain some things to her.
    Well, you know how it goes, I go back in, tell her to come out, she does, he tells her how hard it is, and she sells the beer, I run it across the street and get 2 bits, and he has a date after work. Was that so hard? I hope the happy couple found out how hard it was, after all, in a good day’s work back in the day.

  2. ctemple January 6, 2013 at 10:51 pm #

    Second!

  3. Kenny January 6, 2013 at 10:54 pm #

    Meanwhile in Columbia county, Florida, commissioners are busy ram-rodding through a plan to build a 28 million dollar “convention center”. This in the landlocked backwoods of red-neck, bible thumping nowhere. Devoid of public input, and chastisement for anyone who would question such an ingenious plan, the commission conveniently omits mention of it’s last grand idea; the “Florida Sports Hall of Fame” which is now a library. Watching “good ole boy” politics is more fun than a barrel of criminals!

  4. John D. Wheeler January 6, 2013 at 11:18 pm #

    With all the crises coming together, predicting the future is kind of like being at the Roman Colosseum and betting on which lion is going to eat the Christian. Except there are no spectators, we’re all in the ring together surrounded by the lions.

  5. xport January 6, 2013 at 11:26 pm #

    Well, there is no more high rise buildings going up in Woodside. But they did turn the projects into condos. What was once affordable housing for vets is now upscale and out of sight.
    So we can find plenty to bitch about, but there is still some good stuff. I am not ready to throw the towel in. Please Jim, don’t give up hope.

  6. Black Transgender Studies Major (College Boy) January 6, 2013 at 11:48 pm #

    Many of you will remember when, in mid-2008, crude oil futures climbed above $147 a barrel. There was great crying and gnashing of teeth on CFN that oil would soon hit $200 and society would collapse. The long-awaited SHTF would finally be here. I called bullshit. I was then criticized as a “cornucopian” out of touch with reality. Crunch time was here! The end was near! I called bullshit again. Rinse and repeat endlessly.
    So, now it’s over four years later. Today New York’s main contract for light sweet crude for delivery in January is $88.11 a barrel.
    So not only did you CFN doomers get it wrong about oil going up to $200 a barrel. You got the direction wrong. Oil prices went down, not up.
    I am claiming bragging rights here on CFN. You cannot even say “but the trend is up” because you got the trend line completely wrong. It went down.
    I do get tired of having to speak so loudly, as it were, to the bloggers here who are so very hard of hearing, but what else can I do? I keep effortlessly proving myself to be right and the doomers to be wrong.
    This CFN blog is much more interesting when I take the time to post here because I post in an erudite manner on a variety of subjects, usually with correct grammar, usually concise posts, and always with intelligent content.
    Deal with it.

  7. xhalor January 6, 2013 at 11:48 pm #

    “Who, in the West, besides Julian Assange, has stuck his neck out in the past ten years?”
    ————————————————-
    U.S. Army Private First Class Bradley Manning.

  8. xport January 6, 2013 at 11:58 pm #

    Everything that Kunstler says is on target. It scares the shit out of me, and should have you running for the toilet. But I have been thru hard times, and I know how people are, and I have faith. We know the leadership is lame and in the hands of the powerbrokers. But we, the people, having seen the light, can control our destiny.
    Do not give up, do not give in, stand together.
    Fight the fear, strive for truth. Be strong.
    Your children depend on you. Do the right thing.

  9. Helix January 7, 2013 at 12:42 am #

    Is there a difference?

  10. Neon Vincent January 7, 2013 at 12:49 am #

    I’m reminded of what Kenneth S. Deffeyes said in “The End of Suburbia” about what life would be like after the peak: 2 million jobs lost (it ended up being worse), 7 trillion lost out of the stock market (that, too, was conservative, although much of the nominal value came back–the real, not so much), federal budget surplus gone, state budget surpluses gone, the middle class disappearing. I point out to my students that he said this in 2003, play that clip twice, and then ask them if his list sounds familiar. The answer is always yes.
    As for “Barack Obama and John Boehner think[ing] we’re going to re-start another round of suburban expansion” I expect the answer for Boehner would be yes (that’s where his voters are), but for Obama not so much. He’d be better served by more people moving back into cities, where his voters are. That’s happening, even here in Detroit, where hipsters have started settling in Corktown and well-off people are moving back to Midtown. One can have a housing market without suburbs.
    I’ve been blogging a lot about the Fiscal Bluff (it was played as a bluff by both sides and Obama managed to win the hand; he used to play poker with the Republicans in the Illinois state senate and it showed this time), but mostly about what good and bad it had for energy. Good: it kept tax credits for wind energy, biodiesel, vanpools and other employer-provided transportation, plug-in electric and hybrid cycles, and train track maintenance. At least the tax code is doing something to help a rail system the Bulgarians would be ashamed of. The bad news is that it extended tax breaks for auto race tracks–a subsidy for NASCAR.
    I also wrote about the possibility of a “Greenfinger” a Bond-villain-like figure who could cause environmental havoc by geoengineering, the top energy stories of 2012, the purchase of Current TV by Al Jazeera, the psychology of dieting, history repeating in Syria with a cameo by The Propellerheads and Shirley Bassey, and a comment on the Hipcrime Vocab’s assessment of the projections for this year, which thought that Jim could have claimed more successes, as some of his earlier predictions are starting to pan out.
    As for what’s in store for the rest of the week, there’s more on science in 2012, more on the Fiscal Bluff, and more blogging on this month’s energy theme. Oh, and the North American International Auto Show.
    Happy Motoring–for now–from Detroit!
    http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.com/

  11. Lucky 13 January 7, 2013 at 1:32 am #

    HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  12. Lucky 13 January 7, 2013 at 1:34 am #

    ‘he tells her how hard it is’??????????

  13. Lucky 13 January 7, 2013 at 1:37 am #

    In the long run we are all dead.
    Until then the quality of life declines and
    prices of almost EVERYTHING increases.

  14. kulturcritic* January 7, 2013 at 1:58 am #

    James – Civil disobedience is highly unlikely as it would be crushed mercilessly. Witness the OWS movement. Yet, few, if any of those living in the land of good and plenty would want to overturn the current world order anyway. So they will just continue to “Throw Us Under The Bus” until noone remains to complain. kulturCritic/

  15. Bukko Canukko January 7, 2013 at 2:42 am #

    Don’t overlook irony as a factor in keeping people — especially the young ones who will have to live in the shit-storm that’s bubbling up –from doing anything to confront the current patched-togther system. For so many, nothing is serious. It’s all a joke, a screenplay of their lives, something that they’re doing while they’re waiting for real life to start. So they don’t have to care. They get by with McJobs and Dumpster diving, living with parents or richer friends, waiting for the next government handout. Whiling away the time in marginal existences. TV is real, the world around them is not.
    My daughter, bless her heart, is one of that crew. With a newly-minted double major in Anthropology and Religious Studies, she can be jobless in TWO fields. She’s damn intelligent, but not practical. She wants to trade in her Prius (which she got for free when her mom didn’t want it any more) for a new one before the current car hits 90,000 miles, because it will have lower trade-in value after that. When I suggest that getting a new car when she doesn’t have a job is a worse idea than a bad trade-in value, she labels me as the impractical one. (And she still hasn’t read the copy of “The Long Emergency” I sent her when she was midway through college.)
    How do people like her get away with it? Rich relatives who subsidize them (although I can’t afford to be in that category.) There is still a lot of fat in the land (not the kind on America’s waistlines) and many people can leech off it a while longer.
    As for the millions of hard-scrabble people who don’t have kinfolk who can casually toss them $10,000 cheques, they can live a rich life of imagination. They imagine their lives will be better as they scratch and peck at fast-food labour, picking up some extra cash with drug deals or sex trade or thievery. But the life they are actually living is not what’s real to them. The Facebook life, the lives of the people they see in “reality” shows, images from movies and music videos — that’s what’s “real” in their minds. They KNOW that’s going to happen to them one day. So they put up with the current crap life they have, and don’t even think about changing the system. They are the modern equivalent to Dark Age peasants blinded by the allure of heaven promised by their religious charlatan priests.
    Nothing’s going to change until the Big Collapse. Which is going to bring on 12 kinds of hell. As bad as things seem, enjoy the present, while the lights still come on when you flick a switch and potable water still flows from the tap. These are the good old days. When reality hits, it will be a hammer blow to the head.

  16. manofworld January 7, 2013 at 3:27 am #

    I read almost 5000 doom blog posts in last 5 years and very few of them actually hit the mark.
    I like Jim’s views about urban city designs and he must be listened to but as usual it won’t happen.
    I don’t think “The collapse” as everybody is warning will happen.Just look,US and western are at the center of world’s most successful wealth extraction machine and it has worked non stop from last 500 years.These countries have huge armies,weapons,propaganda,manpower to enforce their will on world.Can anybody tell me how mere derivatives/stock market bubble will lead to collapse?It the wish of every country of world to keep US at top and do business with them.Otherwise they might have left dealing with US long back.
    Also western people who lived in very safe and rich lifestyle tend to forget to compare their lives to poor people in Asia or Africa.If you manage to reach that living standard,then collapse has started.And i don’t think western living standard will ever fall to that level in short span of 10 years.
    The only real news of collapse will be closing of saudi arabian oil production facilities.That is the first milestone i accept.Once that happens,i will start believing in doom and boom propaganda.

  17. manofworld January 7, 2013 at 4:04 am #

    my doom milestones:
    I have excluded all financial/economic data because it is worthless and i can’t form any conclusion from it.
    1)Saudi and ME oil runs out
    2)Russian natural gas runs out
    3)Agriculture production falls in different countries due to different reasons like lack of crude oil,water,pesticides,fertilizers
    4)Medicine/pharma production falls
    5)mineral ores for important metals run out(copper,zinc,phosphorous)
    6)Huge scrap salvaging factories start.
    If another mega war starts,oil will finish in just 2 years maximum.
    So wake me up when saudis declare oil is finished…

  18. Eleuthero5 January 7, 2013 at 4:52 am #

    Mr. ManofWorld,
    If you really are a man of the world, a worldly wise man, then you should know that the Saudis will declare the oil is finished AFTER the Ghawar Field is down to its last million barrels. You’ll get about a week’s warning.
    Jim is correct i.e., that a Black Swan will just shit on your head “one fine sunny day”. There are too many plutocrats who want to collect every last resource and dollar while the getting is good and they rely on the collective lethargy and complacence of the population.
    No one except the richest and/or most well connected will get ANY kind of reasonable warning before a civilization-destroying Black Swan event. It will happen in the twinkling of an eye.
    E.

  19. Bukko Canukko January 7, 2013 at 6:07 am #

    c

  20. Bukko Canukko January 7, 2013 at 6:25 am #

    Let me back up what Eleuthero said there, Manofworld. I’m no Kunstler ass-kisser, but I do agree with his doomish views. Especially because they’re not just his own.
    What JHK says about Peak Oil is backed up with more scientific facts about depletion rates, etc. in Saudi Arabia by the now-deceased oil industry expert Matt Simmons in his book “Twilight in the Desert.” There has been reams written about depletion of many other vital resources by innumerable authors. Just to give one example of depletion, look at the percentage of gold in ore that is being mined now vs. what it was 20 years ago. Much lower grades are getting mined because all the low-hanging (but high-yielding) dirt has been dug. Mankind is ingenious at squeezing more and more out of less and less, but 7 billion people can’t keep chewing at the Big Apple of Earth forever.
    There’s also a relationship between finance and resource extraction. It takes money to make the pumps run. The whole money system has gotten so convoluted and bogus that it’s subject to a sudden collapse. You often don’t know the thin ice is going to crack until it shatters beneath you.
    The brilliant minds at the Automatic Earth blog put it this way: there are “excess claims to underlying real wealth.” In other words, what’s real has been sold off or promised by shysters many times over, like the mortgages on the same houses that were bundled into multiple collateralized debt obligations. You know how fractional reserve lending works? Imagine that done with EVERYTHING of value. The tipping point might not come when Ghawar pumps its last barrel; it may happen when big players like hedge funds come all at once to claim the money they think they own based on a resource or something else, and they find out there’s not enough cash to pay them all off at once. When a financial panic hits, as it has in over-extended times throughout history, it won’t matter if there is still pumpable oil. If the bills are not getting paid for the electricity to run the pumping stations along the pipeline, and the workers walk off the oil field because their wages have not been paid, that’s just as good as a dry hole.
    So don’t be too confident. Just because nothing bad has happened, doesn’t mean it won’t. Don’t go slitting your wrists yet either. Crises can take a long time to develop. That gives one time to prepare. Again quoting the Automatic Earth blog, “The best time to dig your well is before you run out of water.”

  21. Paraquat January 7, 2013 at 6:36 am #

    I agree with you. The OWS folks got pepper sprayed, beaten, shot with rubber bullets, and finally arrested. I really don’t know how James could say this:
    “Who, in the West, besides Julian Assange, has stuck his neck out in the past ten years?”
    The OWS kids tried. I cheered them on, but I didn’t get into the protests myself – I was chicken, and knew that the police could be counted upon to protect their masters at Goldman-Sachs. But most depressing for me is that the OWS protesters didn’t get much support – while they were getting beaten and handcuffed, many in Middle America were cheering. Yet another example of the Stockholm Syndrome.

  22. zendiego January 7, 2013 at 6:42 am #

    I live in Antibes, France as a working expat for a French company. I spent the holiday in Paris, the metro is fantastique. Although the transportation is not nearly as good in Antibes, I do not own a car (owned two when living in the states) and almost exclusively take the bus.
    What is wonderful about high density living is the incredible markets with substantially better quality of meats and veggies and of course wine and cheese, pastries and breads within a few minutes of my door.
    In France, there is a huge amount of culture surrounding the experience of food and drink and in fact this has displaced religion. It is more important to partake in a simple family diner and especially gain the respect of local vendors as the combination becomes a family of sorts.
    You will not find the French suffering in this so called chaos but living and loving every minute of it….oh and yes there is also a culture of complaining here also…which is why despite the constant French bashing on this site, the French maintain a wonderful way of life.

  23. Inquiring Mind January 7, 2013 at 6:48 am #

    It’s all baked into the cake… increasing deficits, higher taxes and inflation. It’s unstoppable.
    The Fed will continue to add to their balance sheet and print, and Congress will continue to borrow and spend in order to keep things afloat… until the boat finally sinks. (Same for Japan and Europe.)
    If you know the fundamentals and axioms of economics, and know economic history—and can remain uninfluenced by the MSM, false statistics and the errant spoutings of economists—you know how this is going to end.
    The only burning question is WHEN will the boat sink.
    In other words… how long do I have to transact business and trade in USD (in order to amass more cash/wealth) before I need to switch over to tangible assets to at least preserve some of my wealth before the final tsunami hits?

  24. PRD January 7, 2013 at 7:02 am #

    It’s nice to read the first several intelligent, measured comments & observations here. Many of them add some additional perspective on Kunstler’s essay. Soon, this section will devolve into a dreary pissing match between the usual 4 or 5 character, at which point I’m outta’ here.

  25. zendiego January 7, 2013 at 7:03 am #

    Oh yeah, like its never been said before….humanity rises, humanity falls…in the descent we all want to try and find a way, to seek that which makes us feel like we are not part of the reason for the fall, yet we are linked together in a web of decisions that not only built the foundations but ultimately lead to the collapse of the very existence we built.
    It is baked for sure, we make it, we eat it, we bake more and more, eat more and more…until, well we can’t bake anymore….because we are always growing beyond our means, beyond our imaginations…that is the lot of human existence…you can spend your entire existence consumed with the obvious…have your cake and eat it too, better yet enjoy making it and give it to others….consumption is our existence, deny that and deny existence…

  26. Leibowitz Society January 7, 2013 at 7:05 am #

    The most pathetic, down-and-out alcoholic living in the gutter lives in less denial than most Western nations do these days. The die has been cast, people committed themselves to overconsumption a generation or two ago, and here we are now — staring slow-motion collapse in the face. Like it or not, admit it or not, we are in the beginnings of the next Dark Age, where life itself will eventually become a luxury and silly things like pro sports and cross-country travel in a few hours will be a distant memory.
    Visit the Leibowitz Society at http://leibowitzsociety.blogspot.com/2013/01/same-old-new-year.html for more information and commentary on our coming Dark Age.

  27. orbit7er January 7, 2013 at 8:28 am #

    The Oildrum had a link to this great article about the Fracking Natural Gas Boom/ bubble set to bust:

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_natural_gas_bubble_20130104/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Truthdig+Truthdig%3A+Drilling+Beneath+the+Headlines

    On the other hand as far as the Feds being “broke” it needs constant reiteration that the US wastes $1 TRILLION PER YEAR on the costs of War! There are 8 weapons systems being funded the Pentagon does not even want, we have over 1,000 overseas bases, are paying for 234 overseas golf courses etc etc etc.
    The Pentagon alone is the world’s biggest oil consumer and accounts for 5% of US oil usage.
    So there IS an answer near at hand for Peak Oil and Climate Change which would also free up billions and billions of capital to invest in Green Transit.

    As much as I love with Kunstler’s assessments and his Dec 31 blog was a masterpiece, it is critical to remember this fundamental fact.

    Stop the Wars and redirect those funds to the Green New Deal and we are in much better shape!

  28. Soul Pucker January 7, 2013 at 8:31 am #

    JHK wrote: “Does anybody now breathing even remember radical politics? Whether you liked them or not — and I was not crazy about the whole “revolution” of the late 1960s, which I lived through — it at least represented a level of seriousness that is now absolutely and starkly absent today, especially in young people.”
    Extensive psychological research proves that when most people put on a “mask”, i.e., don a uniform, or assume a “role” (even if the role is a fictious role, as for example, in a play) that they soon identify with that role and assume a corresponding persona.
    I’ve just put on my artifical afro wig, black sunglasses, black leather jacket, bell bottom jeans, high-heeled leather boots, and put my Black Power poster up on my office wall.
    “Now, whata we gonna do ’bout dem Ho.n, kies?”

  29. Soul Pucker January 7, 2013 at 8:32 am #

    Many years ago, shortly before Christmas, I saw a Radio Shack advertisement selling toys, including a red fireman’s helmet with a large red fire truck light on it. According to the ad, the helmet included a built-in siren that the kid could blast while running around the house with the helmet on with the light flashing.

  30. Soul Pucker January 7, 2013 at 8:41 am #

    JHK wrote: “Does anybody now breathing even remember radical politics? Whether you liked them or not — and I was not crazy about the whole “revolution” of the late 1960s, which I lived through — it at least represented a level of seriousness that is now absolutely and starkly absent today, especially in young people.”
    What is Brother Farrakhan say’n these days about Oba ma?
    “Farrakhan has expressed interest in Scientology and encouraged Nation of Islam members to undergo auditing from the Church of Scientology.[27] The Church has also honored Farrakhan during its annual Ebony Awakening awards ceremony.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Farrakhan

  31. Soul Pucker January 7, 2013 at 8:47 am #

    JHK wrote: “Does anybody now breathing even remember radical politics? Whether you liked them or not — and I was not crazy about the whole “revolution” of the late 1960s, which I lived through — it at least represented a level of seriousness that is now absolutely and starkly absent today, especially in young people.”
    You know what’s “REALLY SERIOUS”?
    Those Japanese Pokeman cartoons….
    “pokeman
    wrong way of spelling pokemon. usually use by parents.
    Principal: You cannot play pokeman at school.
    Kid: its pokemon u fuckin retarded bitch.”

  32. Soul Pucker January 7, 2013 at 8:49 am #

    I always thought that “Pokemon” was just the way that Jamaicans pronounce “Pokeman”?

  33. HenryMorgan January 7, 2013 at 8:50 am #

    What about the $60 billion ‘Rescue Package’ to clean up for Hurricane Sandy? Does Congress have $60 billion to hand out? Is it in a bank somewhere, ready to go? Most likely, as you say Jim, just pretend money to build pretend houses on a flood plain on the coast, which once again will have to be rebuilt in a few more years.
    –Panic in Year 0

  34. KaraokeVox January 7, 2013 at 8:57 am #

    20 years is way too long for the life of our current techno economy. Even with all the recycling and sun chargers, we will become a mighty disappointed and disenfranchised peoples. Not being able to get in touch with live people is no longer the problem anymore. The problem is getting in touch with the RIGHT person. Has it EVER been productive to call a local legislator? During the activist decade of the 60s, didn’t it mean certain death for anyone that helped the common man? Has ANYONE thought that maybe Obama is trying his best not to get SHOT or BLOWN UP during his reign? Yes, I have stuck and continue to stick my neck out. And we know what happens and what will happen to Julian if he sticks anything out the windows of his holding cell. WHACK! There’s still the promise that his legacy in computer land will go on and more people will ANONYMOUSLY blow whistles that only the hounds can hear. Who actually has the time or interest to read all that shit? Certainly not Kunstler. He’s more concerned with his self appointed position as fact checker to The NYT. He’s not even keeping up with this magic stuff and his taking over of the podcast will prove as much. It’s time he just go out to pasture where there is no reception for any kind of mass media. The old garde of writing books can’t keep up with the shifting currents of modern intellectual thought.

  35. Hammering Truth January 7, 2013 at 9:01 am #

    This si all about the 1 percenters taking control of everything. The neo-feudalist system is about to begin:






  36. Norman Conquest January 7, 2013 at 9:07 am #

    Is this Assoka with a new handle, same old crapola.

  37. Norman Conquest January 7, 2013 at 9:09 am #

    Great! Five comments in a row from Soul Pucker. I guess it’s time to sign out of CFN until next week.

  38. anticapitalistcharley January 7, 2013 at 9:16 am #

    reclaim the land!
    http://subversesjournal.wordpress.com/

  39. KaraokeVox January 7, 2013 at 9:16 am #

    So what happens to your persona when you get a bigger dick? Oh…right…you get blacker.

  40. Smokyjoe January 7, 2013 at 9:18 am #

    JHK asks,
    “I can’t tell you what the tattoo-and-falling-down-pants crowd talks about”
    I can tell you a little, because I know quite a few of the rural variety. A lot of them are working-class white dudes who have seen their incomes and opportunities slip. They’d still like “a trade,” for the most part, and stop partying so hard by the time they hit their 30s. For the black dudes, it’s pretty similar, if they have an intact family. In rural areas, most do.
    Falling-down pants are going out of style around here, for what it’s worth. Tats, however, are forever :D
    JHK is getting ever more bitter in these columns. I still think we’d muddle through The Big Crisis, with localities calling up citizens to help with disorder. Smaller cities, tighter-knit ‘burbs, and rural areas will probably do okay, but all bets are off for those places where no one knows each other and where no one even knows how to fix a broken window.

  41. BeingThere January 7, 2013 at 9:22 am #

    perfectly stated, JHK
    These are the developments of our advanced global neoliberal state which of course is unsustainable.
    The events of 2008 since the bubble meltdown has opened our eyes to all the inverted logic this enterprise. All decisions defy logic, based on policies created by the legions of lobbyists who distort every law that gets past.
    The insane coupling of wasteful enterprise snuck into every emergency bill that gets past to grease the Influentials the get these jokers into office based on the free speech of money.
    Oh and while I’m on the subject notice how the 1% think the 1rst amendment is about how much money speaks for the individual while the bottom 99% are surveilled as terrorists when they speak their mind. (thank you patriot act)
    Yes for some, there is plenty of still grist for more profit while the rest of us struggle with rising prices, poisons in our GMO foods, rising medical insurance rates because we had to continue the corporate tie to medical insurance. Obama had his golden chance to set up a single payer system and failed.
    They will shake the middle class and upper middle class for the change in their pockets when all is said and done.
    The world is reacting to globalism by demanding session–even when covering a story on soccer in Spain, they discussed Catalonia wanting to form it’s own state. This is what happens when nation states fail to govern fairly.
    If Obama had a mouth on him like Chris Christie, I wonder whether he couldn’t have called out the whole system. Notice how Christie doesn’t give a hoot whether you like him. AND too bad he’s not going to call down the whole corporatized system.
    Occasionally you will hear a politician on his way out say the govt is owned by the banks, then all goes quiet again—way to much money to be made to say anything that might rock the boat.

  42. ccm989 January 7, 2013 at 9:27 am #

    As usual doom and gloom appears on Monday! Ever notice no one is a doomster on Saturday? Anyway, the whole idea of society collapsing because of the Fiscal Cliff was always nonsense. An imaginary hobgoblin. And the Mayan Apocalypse was nonsense too. We’re still here, right? So forget about the Doomsday scenarios. Just not happening even if we run out of cash or oil. We have alternate energy available. It simply needs to be constructed. And lots of people know how and can watch you-tube videos for further instruction. There’s even these things called books which work even when the power goes out! You can build a lot of stuff out of the junk we have piled up everywhere.
    America will never run out of money. Remember the Federal Reserve can always print more. As long as everyone else in the world accepts the American greenback, our money will always be good. And everyone in the world actually LIKES America. Yes, its true! Foreigners love America! You can tell because they are always vacationing here and some even try to sneak in. That other popular doomsday scenario — a massive epidemic — doesn’t work either. We are too in touch with what’s going on worldwide for any epidemic to really spread. So that leaves us only with environmental disasters for end of time possibilities. So we could use up all the potable water, burn the surface of the planet with coal factory and car outputs or even just use up all the arable land and destroy every bit of wildlife left. Those are possible.
    So encourage everyone to use birth control. Less people worldwide = less misery worldwide. And be a wise consumer who recycles, reuses and doesn’t waste stuff. Acquire less stuff. In this country, you don’t need a gun. You need a brain. Smart people can survive anything.

  43. Black Transgender Studies Major (College Boy) January 7, 2013 at 9:46 am #

    Yes, it’s asoka.
    Deal with it.

  44. nomdeplume January 7, 2013 at 9:53 am #

    Judging by your moniker I’m guessing that you are blowing Rue Paul now.

  45. bgoedecke January 7, 2013 at 9:57 am #

    Who, in the West, besides Julian Assange, has stuck his neck out in the past ten years?
    Ralph Nader

  46. piltdownman January 7, 2013 at 9:58 am #

    I was flying this weekend and found myself re-reading “Shock Doctrine,” because it happened to be on my iPad.
    It got me thinking about how all the machinations which Klein outlined reflect on our current state, particularly the “shock” of the fiscal cliff and the coming return to the “debt ceiling.” The GOP is not, as many of us would like to imagine, “insane,” they are simply still trying to game the system by using this tried-and-true playbook. Why? Because it works.
    I too grew up in the 60’s of Jim’s youth, in a patch of New York’s Hudson Valley which was replete with the well-meaning hipsters of that time. I wasn’t a fan much either, as I thought most of it was a replay of “Animal House” (the book, not the movie…) in which all the things the youth hated they just recreated on a smaller scale.
    But, yes, people were, at the very least, making some noise. Today, they plug in ear buds and just listen….

  47. J Lee January 7, 2013 at 10:04 am #

    Forty One!! Wasn’t that informative? Didn’t that contribute to the discussion? Ahhh, but if only I had been second it would have! I can only nightmare about being first.

  48. budizwiser January 7, 2013 at 10:08 am #

    Another rant about some distant future. But no detail or idea about how “we” get “there.”
    A couple of things to ponder:
    first of all, according to some know-it-alls – at least 47% of the electorate is directly pacified by government “entitlement” programs.
    Now, add to that 15-to-25% of the population directly sucking government tit through employment and defense spending.
    And then of course, you have the 10% of the population genuinely “winning” in the “fire industries.”
    JK – tell us please – tell us how we get to your so-called emergency. I would submit that first there must be some real austerity. First there must be a cessation of discretionary petroleum consumption.
    I submit that before we ever get anywhere near your prognostications that many of our currently “pacified” citizenry will have to be hurting.
    Before your visions of a an un-happy motoring America appear – the lights will need to go out at the nascar tracks and the NFL and the Toyota dealerships etc……..
    But most of all – as long as our extend and pretend mind-set is successfully dictated by the “leaders” of our social constructs – no one will recognize your Long Emergency until their bellies growl and their fingers freeze.
    If you could elaborate on how to recognize the early harbingers of your emerging world made by hand – I would be grateful.
    For now, I see no signs of ice ahead…….

  49. keny January 7, 2013 at 10:08 am #

    Tatto and Falling Pants. Sounds like a modern James Fenimore Cooper novel. But it would be interesting if that group had its own blog. Is there such a thing out there?

  50. Casual Observer January 7, 2013 at 10:15 am #

    “We’ve already seen what happens with the telephone system: after 30 years of techno-innovation in “communications,” it’s now impossible to get a live human being on the phone”
    Perhaps this is the case in a lot of places…but not where I live. I am one of the hold outs still tethered to a land line telephone here in the South. For the past months we’ve been experiencing a devil of time with some loud buzz on the line during calls. I sent an email message (on New Year’s Day!) to the carrier’s “help desk” and to my amazement in under five minutes a live person called back saying they would send a technician out the next day. Some things are still working well in society in spite of the shenanigans in the political sphere.

  51. ozone January 7, 2013 at 10:22 am #

    Firstly, let’s get one little speck of bid’nez out of the way before enumerating the Clusterfuck:
    Ass-poker is now ladling his crapola via the name, “Black Transgender Studies Major (College Boy)”. Yes folks, a name meant to provoke response from his pal across the rickety card-table, pecking away for COINTELPRO. This is so they can pretend to have an “exchange of ideas” while driving away people who have ACTUAL thoughts that aren’t provided by the MIC.
    (There; that’s better; please continue.)

  52. MisterbadExample January 7, 2013 at 10:28 am #

    There are people sticking their necks out besides Assange. The Occupy folks (whom I’ve supported practically from the beginning) have been trying to shut down the XL pipeline as well as the Spectra natural gas pipeline boondoggle in NYC. We’re talking people shutting down bulldozers and blocking truck access. Bloomberg has decided that all buildings in NY should burn natural gas, so they’re putting fragile 30″ NG pipelines under lower Manhattan, where an accident would launch some of those multi-story buildings up like rockets to crash down in Jersey City. And once those pipelines are built and the buildings converted, there’s your excuse to frack all of the Marcellus range–to pay off the pipelines that weren’t needed in the first place. There’s Iraq vet Scott Olsen, whose skull was fractured by an OPD teargas grenade deliberately fired at him (interesting lawsuit coming up). And there’s Bradley Manning.
    Theres’s no shortage of opposition, though you wouldn’t know it to peruse even ‘liberal’ media like MSNBC. Larger point, the OWS are building a culture of resistance, running teach-ins on everything from setting up ‘occupy gardens’ to the finer points of dumpster diving. No wonder the FBI is using COINTELPRO tactics to shut them down.

  53. ront January 7, 2013 at 10:32 am #

    “…. a set of problems that will eventually be overcome by “better leadership” armed with “solutions.””
    Q – How are most of the people fooled all of the time?
    A – Through the conventional practice, when faced with the inconvenient, uncomfortable, and uncertain truth, ignore, ignore, ignore.
    “Bad administration, to be sure, can destroy good policy; but good administration can never save bad policy.”
    Adlai E. Stevenson

  54. MisterbadExample January 7, 2013 at 10:33 am #

    link for info on FBI surveillance:
    http://moveforchangebkculturejam.wordpress.com/2012/12/26/occupys-fbi-files/

  55. Zev Paiss January 7, 2013 at 10:56 am #

    Bud – The challenge of describing how we get from here to there is ALWAYS one of the biggest stumbling blocks. It requires closely following many, many current trends and extrapolating what we think are the best guess steps moving forward. Humans are a tricky group to predict and predictions are difficult when they involved the future … smile.
    This is exactly why after 30 years of being a sustainability consultant and a close follower of many trends I wrote and published the first of my novels entitled “From Here to There” in this first installment I describe the world of 2020 and the world of 2060 with a umber of surprising connections between the two story lines. I am already at work on the second novel that describes what we can expect over the next 10-15 years.
    See for yourself at http://www.fromhere-tothere.org. You will be very glad you did.

  56. xhalor January 7, 2013 at 10:58 am #

    Thank you and poster Kulturcritic for bringing up the OWS participants, the vast majority of who will remain faceless and nameless forever. And yes, Keystone XL and Spectra MUST BE STOPPED. If there is any hope of reforming such a disgustingly corrupt government, this form of active protest would be it.
    I’ve always considered this blog to be a form of dissident media, and for that ‘ol JHK himself deserves special mention. His book “The Long Emergency” started me out on a long period of social examination.
    There are other voices in contemporary America who never get the respect or attention they deserve. Maybe now would be a good time for everyone to tell us about theirs. Stick your neck out.
    Dr. James E. Hansen, head of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies. For his work in climate studies.
    Senator Sherrod Brown and Congressman Dennis Kucinich, both elected representatives from Ohio.
    Maria Garzino, winner of the Office of Special Counsel’s “Public Servant of the Year Award” for blowing the whistle on the installation of defective pumps in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina.
    Wendell Potter, a senior health care analyst at the Center for Public Integrity.
    The men and women who drive the LA Metro bus line #232 to Long Beach, California.
    The Golden Neck Award for a lifetime of confronting TPTB should go to the late American historian Howard Zinn.

  57. ozone January 7, 2013 at 11:01 am #

    Bukko (and by extension, E.),
    Excellent post to couple with your other insightful anecdote on the dismissal of reality by the 20-something party generation.
    Another thing to place on top of the trembling, over-balanced pile here is something we were discussing just this morning.
    The plutocrats (who now run most everything labeled “mega”) will not stop squeezing until they’ve rung every last shekel out of the resources under their control (which includes the “human” kind, as well).
    Let’s pretend that it’s true that there are 50 more years worth of easily extractable oil left at current consumption rates. Do we really suppose that the ecosystem [that human life depends upon] can survive another 50 years of the burning of fossil fuels? To continue down this path is suicidal. Extinction, anyone?
    Those who say, “Don’t worry, there’s plenty of resources to be consumed”, don’t understand the absolutely FATAL implications of that cavalier statement. We need to use what’s left to put in place a “new way of inhabiting the landscape”, but since there’s no money in it, it’s not going to happen. That’s the unutterable shame of it all: it COULD come about, but due to psychopathic, megalomaniacal imaginings, it won’t.
    BTW, regarding the non-reality indulgences of 20-somethings:
    I used to be one as well, and I remember not worrying too much about the rot in the system. I always figured that there were at least SOME serious people running the show, so I could just go about my menial labors and party afterwards in sure and certain knowledge that someone was looking after the megalith. Peeking in the rear-view, they were “taking care of things” all right; moving the oligarchs’ lackeys in, and moving the serious people out. Ah, the confidence and hopium of yout’…

  58. caseyf5 January 7, 2013 at 11:13 am #

    Hello NEON VINCENT,
    The subsidy to NASCAR is on the same level as the Roman Empire provided to their inhabitants using the Coliseums. “Bread and Circuses” aka entertainment for the masses.

  59. progress4conserving January 7, 2013 at 11:16 am #

    “It’s all noise and the madness of crowds now. And black swans shitting on your head some sunny day.”
    -jhk-
    Thanks, JHK!
    Those two lines by themselves make this place well worth the price of admission, this week.
    Ozone – you need to call out the offenders by name.
    Rhino’s rebuttals to asoka are excellent, accurate, and well worth a read by all.
    Budizwizer – don’t look for The Entertainment-Industrial Complex (including NASCAR and pro sports) to drop out of American life until the bitter end.
    PRD – if you don’t contribute something yourself, you get what you deserve – to paraphrase Kid Rock.






    For those of you who might need a rock and roll energy boost on this magnificent Monday.
    “Only God Knows Why”

  60. Rick January 7, 2013 at 11:20 am #

    Hey Jim,
    Good post.
    I agree with this: “Anyway, we don’t really have the energy resources to supply the electricity for all this crap indefinitely, or probably even another twenty years.”
    Crap indeed. I’m so sick of tech BS. Especially those with iPhones. It’s like some pacifier for these folks.
    PS – You didn’t mention climate change. It’s going to be in the 40s and 50s this week here in the Chicagoland area. And it’s Jan. IT plays a large role in climate change, due to all the server farms and NRG needed to make and ship this crap.

  61. progress4conserving January 7, 2013 at 11:22 am #

    “So encourage everyone to use birth control. Less people worldwide = less misery worldwide.”
    -ccm-
    Absolutely agree, CCM!
    And encourage immigration quota reduction into the United States. Fewer people in this country = less misery here, and worldwide.
    Can anyone, other than the RI, tell me what is wrong with this logic?

  62. Johnny January 7, 2013 at 11:35 am #

    As I read the posts on Monday morning (some interesting, others just silly), I can always tell the ones that never read “The Long Emergency.”
    Try it.

  63. The Communal Solution January 7, 2013 at 11:39 am #

    I found two quotes which I will use on my website: “in case you don’t know it yet, you’re on your own now. Put whatever energy you can muster into finding a community to be part of” and this “it’s hard to measure the desperation of households in this culture of rugged individualism”
    I think it’s wrong when we expect someone, any one individual to have all the answers (I’m not saying we all do, but there seems to be a tendency in that direction). JHK, in my opinion is an excellent and eloquent social and cultural critic of our times. And I think he’s got a good grasp on what life will look like in the future.
    My thoughts are these: that the idyllic “community” of the past where everyone traded or sold goods and services, I believe, is somewhat of an illusion. And the second quote I think illustrates that “desperation of households in this culture of rugged individualism”. I think this “desperation” applies not only now but going back for all time in societies that based themselves on private land ownership and capitalistic rather than cooperative social structure. Absolutely, private ownership of land/resources creates tremendous wealth, it also creates wars, slavery, usury, serfdom, crime and “desperation” which can be hidden away by “rugged individualism”. There have always been people who were perfectly happy with the status quo, the well positioned.
    I don’t think we have to take away people’s individual incentive, freedom and so on to create a just society. I believe a just society would deal adequately with this global warming situation, which from my understanding now trumps all others. I believe too that that just society will be communal in some or many of its facets.

  64. ozone January 7, 2013 at 11:50 am #

    “Ozone – you need to call out the offenders by name.
    Rhino’s rebuttals to asoka are excellent, accurate, and well worth a read by all.” -P4C
    I also was impressed by the incisiveness of Rhino’s scathing counter-screeds, but it extends the courtesy of a response that I don’t think that particular liar deserves. (I think my descriptor of “pestilential persistence” applies well; he certainly doesn’t need the further excuse of a response to post reams of his talking-point piffle [tm Kyoo].)
    Yes, I should point directly to the “malefactors”; I prefer posting links to those who are doing the actual investigations, so I’ll try to do more of that in future.

  65. ozone January 7, 2013 at 11:56 am #

    Speaking of “some sunny day”, while the intertubes are still a-buzzin’ (if not vibrating), here’s a nice little tune in open D capo’d on the 5th that should be attainable to those with only a tad more than basic fanger-pickin’ skills. (If I can do it; so could YOU! I didn’t go into the whole instructification part; it seems pretty self-evident to me.)






  66. anotherplayaguy January 7, 2013 at 11:57 am #

    Who, in the West, besides Julian Assange, has stuck his neck out in the past ten years?
    Let’s not forget Bradley Manning.
    It’s been my contention that the government has been sabotaged deliberately by the Religious Right whose holy book tells them that Democracy is for idiots and the only true form of god-blessed government is monarchy. The Divine Right of Kings is the only sanctioned political organization in the Bible. And if you believe the Bible is literally true, the King is the one for you.

  67. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 12:04 pm #

    Just ignore him/her (whoever you are talking about) and he/she will go away. Instead you devote space to RI every week. Pathetic.
    Asoka dot dot is my only handle

  68. Casual Observer January 7, 2013 at 12:09 pm #

    Do we really suppose that the ecosystem [that human life depends upon] can survive another 50 years of the burning of fossil fuels?
    Yes why not?

  69. ozone January 7, 2013 at 12:10 pm #

    Prepare to be amazed, Poppets!!
    http://www.businessinsider.com/some-sunny-day-2013-1
    There seems to be some questioning of the dominant paradigm goin’ on here! How’s business?
    *************************************************

  70. ozone January 7, 2013 at 12:12 pm #

    See what I mean?

  71. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 12:14 pm #

    Is everybody except Jamie Dimon, Lloyd Blankfein, and Mark Zuckerberg living on store-brand macaroni and ketchup?
    ==========
    Good, quality ketchup is expensive!

  72. Al Klein January 7, 2013 at 12:14 pm #

    To those who think that maybe, just maybe, JHK is overstating our condition and that the warning of future calamity is just so much fear-mongering, I have the following scenario to consider: A man jumps out of a window from 40 stories up. As he passes by the 10th floor an observer yells out, “How’s it going?” To which the falling man responds, “So far so good!” The moral of this story is that some dynamics are not linear. Think about how the Soviet Union collapsed. Was it gradual?

  73. Nickelthrower January 7, 2013 at 12:22 pm #

    Greetings,
    Sometimes I have a hard time Following Jim as I live in S. California on a tiny sailboat. I seldom drive as I live in a walkable community and rampant consumerism is, frankly, impossible given how I choose to live.
    I work making high end vacuum tube gear that is used by everybody from Aerosmith to 50 Cent but because I work for myself and income is spotty, getting access to credit is not an option. This is true as well for my friends that work for the entertainment industry.
    I’m currently on a three week vacation in the suburbs of Salt Lake City visiting family and NOW I UNDERSTAND.
    Techno-narcissism is so prevalent that babies are given ipads and kindles to play with. A 50″ television in the bedroom of, say, a three year old is not uncommon. TV’s run in every room yet no one is watching. I specialize in making documentaries and I’d have to save for months if I wanted a kindle and these home are just cluttered with the junk.
    Drugs – I’m shocked by the amount of prescription drugs these people are taking. Prescription painkillers for a teething baby. Anti-depressants for the teenagers and the parents. Weight loss drugs – it just doesn’t end.
    I have no access to health care because I’m self employed and suffer from migraines (an automatic disqualification though I believe that has changed now under Obamacare) so my approach is to eat healthy and exercise. Frankly, I’m horrified by what these people eat and how they run to the doctor on an almost weekly basis.
    The McMansion suburb I’m in is nothing short of spectacular. These are all 3 – 4000ft homes that look like a Walgreens or Rite Aid exploded inside of them with headache causing plug in air fresheners in every room and every convenient gadget you can imagine collecting dust in some corner or on a shelf.
    Best of all, the people that live here work in Salt Lake which is about 3o miles away and for reasons that make no sense, they drive giant SUV’s, Mini-Vans and Trucks.
    It is amazing.

  74. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 12:22 pm #

    Yeah, your point has been obvious now for six years. But keep it up week after week. Maybe we’ll finally get it.

  75. Al Klein January 7, 2013 at 12:24 pm #

    Per Ozone: “I always figured that there were at least SOME serious people running the show, so I could just go about my menial labors and party afterwards in sure and certain knowledge that someone was looking after the megalith.”
    Ozone, I remember feeling the same way. Thank you for putting that feeling (incorrect, as we now understand) into words.

  76. ozone January 7, 2013 at 12:25 pm #

    Well, for JUST ONE instance, the death by acidification of the world’s oceans can’t be a good thing, IMHO; what do you think?

  77. k-dog January 7, 2013 at 12:28 pm #

    “I can’t tell you what the tattoo-and-falling-down-pants crowd talks about in the parking lot outside the 7-Eleven store. Perhaps they swap meth recipes.……………Life imitates art, as Oscar Wilde said, and these days television is our art.
    Blue Crystal Meth Rock Candy for Breaking Bad
    JESSE PINKMAN
    Yo, I get I shouldn’t call, but I’m in a situation over here, and I need my money.
    WALTER WHITE
    I just gave you $600.
    JESSE PINKMAN
    Yeah, and thanks, Daddy Warbucks, but that was before my housing situation went completely testicular on me, okay?
    WALTER WHITE
    Jesse, look at me, you are a blowfish.
    JESSE PINKMAN
    What?
    WALTER WHITE
    A blowfish, think about it. Small in stature, not swift, not cunning, easy prey for predators, but the blowfish has a secret weapon, doesn’t he? Doesn’t he? What does the blowfish do, Jesse? What does the blowfish do?
    JESSE PINKMAN
    I don’t even know what…
    WALTER WHITE
    The blowfish puffs up, okay? The blowfish puffs himself up four, five times larger than normal but why? Why does he do that? Because it makes him intimidating, that’s why. Initimidating so that the other scarier fish are scared off and that’s you. You are a blowfish. Don’t you see? It’s just all, all an illusion. It’s nothing but air. Now, who messes with the blowfish, Jesse?
    JESSE PINKMAN
    Nobody.
    WALTER WHITE
    You’re damn right.
    JESSE PINKMAN
    I’m a blowfish.
    WALTER WHITE
    A blowfish. Say it again.
    JESSE PINKMAN
    A blowfish!
    WALTER WHITE
    Say it like you mean it!
    JESSE PINKMAN
    I’M A BLOWFISH! BLOWFISH! YEEEAAAH! BLOWFISHIN’ THIS UP!

  78. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 12:31 pm #

    Dead oceans = bad thing.
    Think of the plankton.

  79. Nina Benitez January 7, 2013 at 12:34 pm #

    Jim is correct in saying that the American system is not sustainable.
    Here is an example from recent experience (Dec 2012) – the costs of pharmaceutical drugs and doctor visits for bladder infection.
    France (Dec 19)
    doctor visit: 27 Euros
    antibiotics from Roche pharmaceuticals: 5 EUR
    US (Dec 26)
    doctor visit: $95
    antibiotics (also branded but not from Roche): $65
    In neither case does the patient have local insurance, only travel insurance for accidents, catastrophic illness, etc.
    As you can see, in France, you don’t need health insurance except for big things happening to you (cancer, serious illness, bad accident requiring hospital stay). In the US, even if you pay $185 per month in insurance premiums (as I did in the past when I was living there), you still have to pay about $30 per doctor visit and a much bigger sum for pharmaceutical products that are not generic.

  80. LaughingAsRomeWasBurningDown January 7, 2013 at 1:01 pm #

    Who’s sticking their neck out?
    JHK, you need to get out more or something. In my neck of the woods, folks like the Hobet 45 protesters stuck their necks way out.
    Happy New Year!

  81. azgog January 7, 2013 at 1:02 pm #

    “Mad outbursts of tragic meaninglessness”
    Emphasis on “mad”. So now we are getting ready to dissipate all our energy and outrage in an uphill battle with the NRA that, even if it succeeded in passing more paper laws, can have very little actual effect. The guns are already out there, by the millions.
    Meanwhile Big Pharma is quite happy to sit back and watch the kabuki show as they quietly suppress the fact that 90% of the mass shooters AND the domestic violencemakers, the workplace shooters and the road ragers are on their powerful psychotropic drugs! Google SSRIstories.
    As insane as it is to have all these WMDs just laying around, the gun enthusiasts actually have a point – these things don’t just jump up and start firing by themselves. As usual we seem slow to take action and when we do we put all our efforts into the wrong area. We need to take on a multibillion dollar industry that profits from the fears of the American people – but its not (primarily) the arms industry.
    Instead of handing out anti-depressants like breath mints, drugs with KNOWN and FREQUENT “side effects” that include suicide, homicide and other assorted mayhem, we need to offer therapy, counseling, right livlihood, medical marijuana, better diets and more exercise – but this takes longer than a 5 minute visit to a pill doctor and fails to generate the high profits that industry requires. We have allowed ourselves to be treated like experimental rats in a cage.

  82. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 1:04 pm #

    Mr. ManofWorld,
    If you really are a man of the world, a worldly wise man, then you should know that you won’t even get a week’s warning.
    Jim is correct, i.e., that a Black Swan, just like the return of Jesus, will just shit on your head “one fine sunny day”.
    No one will get ANY kind of reasonable warning before a civilization-destroying Black Swan event. It will happen in the twinkling of an eye, just like the Second Coming.
    CFN is wise to adopt the second coming/black swan explanation for why things work. ANSWER: Things work… until they don’t.
    Sinners say the same. But one fine sunny day… Judgment!
    See how CFN has a religious mindset?
    Nature bats last!
    The laws of physics apply to everyone!
    We are soooo fucked!
    Can’t you hear the evangelical fire and brimstone message?

  83. The Communal Solution January 7, 2013 at 1:26 pm #

    I think we should be careful not to expect any one person to have all the answers. We should think about these things for ourselves as well and take the good ideas and insight that some have and build upon them.
    I think JK does a great job but that doesn’t mean I think he has all the answers.
    I do not think the “local economy” idea is the “total” answer. That would throw us into the past which looks good on a Norman Rockwell painting but in reality I do not believe it was all that great.
    I think the way forward is some sort of communal agreements in communal cooperation, the degree of which should be up to the individual. However, land, the most critical resource for human survival must be made available to all (to use, not to own).
    Usury and resource hoarding leading to exploitation has been around forever and I believe (besides overpopulation) one of the leading causes of all our human misery.
    This great mass of government dependence (of which, if most were honest, involves a most everyone) is caused by the government. If the government really cared about its people it would make available to resources i.e. land so that people could take care of themselves. If we think people can’t do this then I would suggest try standing behind the checkout counter at Walmart for eight hours or any other number of bottom jobs. If people had no choice they would figure out how to do it.
    I can’t quite see any other possibility-low-wage jobs in government dependency or we have the land and the resources there on take care of ourselves and hopefully cooperate and share while we do that.

  84. sevenmmm January 7, 2013 at 1:27 pm #

    You have the balls to expose those rich government employees? The grocery stores aren’t stocked with aged cheese, organic crackers, and vintage, for those with frayed bell bottoms. That suburbia exists because THOSE GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES LIVE THERE!
    No different than Soviet Russia. And we all know how that worked out.
    I expect government employees will pull out all the stops to keep their cushy life intact. All of them.

  85. Radu Voda January 7, 2013 at 1:28 pm #

    Well that’s just pathetic. Christians are increasingly persecuted in the West – with even Catholic Institutions being forced to close if they don’t allow Gay Adoption. And now they are about to be forced to pay for abortions for their employees.
    Your hatred is blinding you. And btw, Democracy doesn’t work – that’s been known for Ages by people from many Nations and Faiths. People in general are just too gullible and/or selfish. You think the Rothschilds believe in Democracy? Or Capitalism either? These are just their vehicles. Capitalism and Democracy are for suckers.
    The Founders didn’t believe in Democracy either. It’s not mentioned in the Constitution. We were supposed to be a Republic – not a Tyranny of the Majority. Nowadays, the Majority is tyrannized by Minorities who are members of the Grievance Coalition. Put all together, they are the Majority.

  86. goldmund January 7, 2013 at 1:47 pm #

    Who, in the West, besides Julian Assange, has stuck his neck out in the past ten years?
    How about the brave folks down in Texas who are currently blockading the path of the proposed Keystone XL pipeline? Last I heard they were occupying the corporate office Of Trans Canada, the company that is building the pipeline, in Houston… Or how about the “Idle No More” movement that is resisting the abrogation of treaties and the confiscation of native land for fossil fuel extraction? It’s time for us all to stop whining and join these movements. We are much more effective when we work together as a community, and when we do we will overcome our isolation and loneliness and have great fun at the same time!

  87. Radu Voda January 7, 2013 at 1:57 pm #

    Most weren’t very serious and went home when it got cold. A hard core used the appearance of egalitarianism to avoid responsibility and visibility – and were able to abscond with a large amount of donated money. Others were just assholes with their putting White Men at the back of the line, etc. As if racism is going to cure racism.
    http://fritztucker.blogspot.com/2011/11/american-autumn-pt-3.html

  88. lsjogren January 7, 2013 at 2:33 pm #

    Ah, haven’t read it yet but look forward to my Monday fix of JHK which allows me to face the week with a smile on my face and a spring in my step …

  89. ront January 7, 2013 at 2:43 pm #

    Here is one of many versions of a story I read a few days ago. It could prove useful for the participants of this blog community.
    –ront
    There was once a Samurai, named Nobuchika, who approached the Zen master, named Haku-in, and asked whether there were really Hell and Heaven. The Zen master asked him, “Who are you?” The Samurai answered, “I am a Samurai, sir”. “Uh! Are you?”, the master exclaimed, and said, “You don’t look like a Samurai; you look like a beggar”. The Samurai got angry and grabbed his sword. When Master Haku-in saw that, he said, “Uh! You have a sword. It looks very dull. What can you do with the dull sword?” Nobuchika drew his sword out of the sheath. Then Master Haku-in said, softly, “See! The gate of Hell opens now”. When Hobuchika heard that, he realised that and calmed down. And then again, Master Haku-in said, kindly, “See! The gate of Heaven opens now”.
    People, who listened to the story, seemed to understand. Yes, Hell and Heaven are like that; they are not far away from our life, they are within our life. Any time we are angry, we are going to Hell. Whenever we are calm and peaceful, we are in Heaven. So all of us can experience Hell and Heaven in our daily life, it is easy to see, isn’t it?

  90. lsjogren January 7, 2013 at 2:43 pm #

    BTSM:
    Peak oilers, like most people, tend to view the world in tinted glasses.
    I guess you could say if optimists view the world in rose colored glasses, pessimists view the world in shit colored glasses.
    I believe peak oil is real and is a huge problem.
    However, it is not going to hit as soon or as suddenly as those who wear shit colored glasses believe.
    On a related note, nobody has proven Malthus was wrong, but the timetable has needed a lot of fine tuning.

  91. Radu Voda January 7, 2013 at 2:46 pm #

    Quite true. The Icelanders were able to do what they did because they’re still a Nation – an alliance of Clans, Brothers, and Friends. Mass Immigration hadn’t completely destoyed them. But mark, large third world immigration is still continuing so their long term propects aren’t good if it continues. If they really understood, they would stop it. It’s just more of the same cursed globalism.

  92. lsjogren January 7, 2013 at 2:49 pm #

    Goldmund:
    Protesting fossil fuels is pissing in the wind.
    Nobody throws away a prosperous economy because of prospective long-term environmental consequences, no matter how dire they may be.
    The ONLY way to curtain fossil fuel use is to come up with alternatives.
    And contrary to the views of scientifically-illiterate progressives and the flat earth society of Tom Friedman, we don’t have alternatives yet.
    One thing I do disagree with JHK on is that that alternative energy is a pipedream. I do agree with him that alternative energy does not exist at the present time and there is no basis for confidence that it will exist in time to replace depleting fossil fuels.
    But there is a chance.

  93. lsjogren January 7, 2013 at 2:51 pm #

    Mass immigration is one of the manmade disasters that will destroy us if we don’t stop it.
    But there are many others.

  94. Liquid Lennny January 7, 2013 at 3:20 pm #

    Now Jim really, why so glum?
    At least through all the fiscal cliff theatrics clear minds did ultimately prevail and extend the 70 million dollar two year tax break to NASCAR track investors.
    Who says government don’t work.
    Actually, Jim, I’m surprised your head didn’t explode when hearing ’bout that one…
    Carry on CF’d Nation, it will only get better!

  95. tripticket January 7, 2013 at 3:22 pm #

    “It’s time for us all to stop whining and join these movements. We are much more effective when we work together as a community, and when we do we will overcome our isolation and loneliness and have great fun at the same time!”
    Bravo! But I’ve got an even better idea: stop using the energy they are violating the laws of rationality (and human decency) to acquire. I’m not saying that you, personally, are at fault, but the usurpers would stop usurping pretty quickly if we all stopped buying the products of their usurpation.
    Until then it’s really just pissing into the wind.

  96. tripticket January 7, 2013 at 3:32 pm #

    “Protesting fossil fuels is pissing in the wind.”
    Wow, talk about synchronicity. I did a lot of protesting back in the day, but eventually I got tired of the ammonia smell on my face.
    Today I live without electricity and am aiming at cutting, no slashing, my car travel this year compared to last. If I’m still on the internet at all by this time next year I’ll be surprised.
    There is an alternative to fossil fuels. It’s called being still. And it’s not nearly as bad as everyone thinks.

  97. PeteF January 7, 2013 at 3:37 pm #

    “Does anybody now breathing even remember radical politics? Whether you liked them or not — and I was not crazy about the whole “revolution” of the late 1960s, which I lived through — it at least represented a level of seriousness that is now absolutely and starkly absent today, especially in young people”
    Yes Jim, we remember, and we all know how that turned out. That’s why no one is doing anything now.

  98. Jimmy Drinkwater January 7, 2013 at 3:41 pm #

    It’s nice to read the first several intelligent, measured comments & observations here. Many of them add some additional perspective on Kunstler’s essay. Soon, this section will devolve into a dreary pissing match between the usual 4 or 5 character, at which point I’m outta’ here.

    Agreed, that usually occurs somewhere around post #100 or so.
    Beyond that any good entries gets lost in the din as one can begin to filter out almost all the “replied to from……” comments that are as you describe.

  99. Phutatorius January 7, 2013 at 3:46 pm #

    Ditto to the virtue of being still. But I can’t resist repeating a recent New Yorker cartoon that depicted a guy wearing a tattered suit sitting around a campfire speaking to some other tattered looking people. The caption was something like: “But for a brief moment in time we created an awful lot of shareholder value.”
    -Phut

  100. tripticket January 7, 2013 at 3:52 pm #

    Here’s a link to the cartoon in question:
    http://www.condenaststore.com/-sp/Yes-the-planet-got-destroyed-but-for-a-beautiful-moment-in-time-we-crea-New-Yorker-Cartoon-Prints_i9318014_.htm
    Good stuff. Thanks for that.

  101. john3141592 January 7, 2013 at 4:01 pm #

    Thank you,
    We don’t get nearly enough Vera Lynn references these days.
    Or streaky bacon, as in those lovely summer days before the war.

  102. Peter of Lone Tree January 7, 2013 at 4:05 pm #

    “I have a total irreverence for anything connected with society except that which makes the roads safer, the beer stronger, the food cheaper and the old men and old women warmer in the winter and happier in the summer.” — Brendan Behan

  103. Goat1080 January 7, 2013 at 4:18 pm #

    Speaking of show business in general and Star Trek in particular – our government is entertaining proposals for a full size “Starship Enterprise” to be built in low earth orbit!!!
    Title of article:
    White House Petition Urges U.S. To Build Real-Life Starship ‘Enterprise’
    Posted: 01/04/2013 9:44 am EST
    Link:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/04/nasa-starship-enterprise-engineer-white-house_n_2409147.html
    Forget banking crisis, debt crisis, food crisis, fiscal cliff – let’s build a full size Enterprise and head for the stars!!!!!!

  104. Geewhiz January 7, 2013 at 4:24 pm #

    Thanks for all your work Jim. What I always wonder about is where is the civil unrest?, where is the domestic sabotage? Are you honestly saying that in this country of 300 million plus people there is no one who is crazy enough to blow up gas pipelines, destroy infrastructure, target political leaders to expose their lies? Why is Jon Corzine still walking the streets a free man when the poor bastard who steals some food from the grocery store is the one who is locked up? If you are not outraged you are not paying attention! Assoka….bite me!

  105. Kyooshtik January 7, 2013 at 4:33 pm #

    This CFN blog is much more interesting when I take the time to post here because I post in an erudite manner on a variety of subjects,
    ============
    I am surprised no one has mentioned the likelihood that Rhino is the creator of this new Asoka alternate handle.

  106. xhalor January 7, 2013 at 4:35 pm #

    Thanks for the video lesson. I think I’m going to move the capo down to see if I can work in some slide. He said he had a tab available if you email him. I will need it. Internet time is kinda difficult and I have to take my guitar over to my cousin’s house so it can warm up.
    I was able to acquire an unwanted laptop. Not very difficult to do. It appears that there are many obsolete ones out there that people just don’t know what to do with. Hang on to those Windows distribution disks! If you don’t have ‘em, get ‘em. Can’t get ‘em? Welcome to the Linux club. Yer a pirate now, matey…

  107. k-dog January 7, 2013 at 5:11 pm #


    Events are in the drivers seat, including things unseen.>


    On placid islands of ignorance in black seas of infinity we lie sleeping incomprehensive of the vista of terrifying reality the waking day of the new year will reveal. Fleeing from reality’s ghastly light with a feebly yearning for the nocturnal comfort of a new dark age our hours shall be consumed with trepidation.

  108. k-dog January 7, 2013 at 5:14 pm #

    feeble

  109. progress4conserving January 7, 2013 at 5:45 pm #

    “Mass immigration is one of the manmade disasters that will destroy us if we don’t stop it.
    But there are many others.”
    -lsjo gren-
    If you (or anyone else) can name something more devastating (to the US, and through us the world) or more easily stopped (for the US) than mass immigration, we sure would like to hear what it is, lsjo.
    In my view, legal mass immigration into the United States is the Gordion Knot – cut through it and there may be some hope for the future of humanity, worldwide.

  110. ozone January 7, 2013 at 5:49 pm #

    Day-um, Dawg! You got the imagery goin’ ON!
    (Thanks, always a treat for me to see poetic vision in service of the immutable and disinterested grindings of reality.)
    You had another in last weeks’ strangeness; I’ll throw it in when the time comes to strike a blow at the bullshittery [tm MyrtleMay].

  111. ozone January 7, 2013 at 6:00 pm #

    X,
    Throw that capo OFF, once you get the idear going. Never fergit — more beyond the 12th fret! :o) (Slide can usually scrape another 3 beyond [for the high strings] on most acoustic boxes without too much sweat and bother.)
    I have a copy of Ubuntu (Linux child) and will try stamping it onto a discarded but workable laptop this coming weekend.
    Thanks man; keep on keepin’ on.

  112. ozone January 7, 2013 at 6:06 pm #

    Forgot to add: “Arrrrrrrr!”
    Whosomever will I find to bite me crank tho’?? (He asked in despairing horror…)
    -Cap’n Pissgums (froshhhhh)

  113. ozone January 7, 2013 at 6:15 pm #

    Pete,
    Your comment brings about more laughter than perhaps it should… but that’s a price we must pay for having the temerity to look back with an “experienced” eye.
    (Good one.)

  114. helen highwater January 7, 2013 at 6:23 pm #

    You think your comments make this blog more interesting? You are truly delusional.

  115. banana republican January 7, 2013 at 6:25 pm #

    I think asoka may have finally come out of the closet. I’m afraid it might really be him…
    LOL!

  116. sprezzatura January 7, 2013 at 6:25 pm #

    If your predictions are off by twenty years, in your lifetime you are a failure. In a century you were a prophet.

  117. Bustin Jay January 7, 2013 at 6:33 pm #

    Bud sed, “Another rant about some distant future. But no detail or idea about how “we” get “there.'”
    He did reference his body of work. Does he have to recapitulate every last footnote?
    Your standard for TLE seems to be, “If it ain’t obvious, it just ain’t.”
    Okay buddy. Perhaps you’d have a different point of view if it was your job to do research, write for editors and publications, and travel around the world speaking to people.

  118. xhalor January 7, 2013 at 6:45 pm #

    Check your system requirements on that Ubuntu. On my old Gateway laptop I couldn’t run beyond version 10. Support for 10 runs out in March, I think. Soon, though.
    On the new (used) laptop I’m using Slackware w/Fluxbox desktop. Lotsa tweaking (sigh).

  119. Bustin Jay January 7, 2013 at 6:46 pm #

    BC said “There is still a lot of fat in the land (not the kind on America’s waistlines) and many people can leech off it a while longer.”
    Where da fat at??
    http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011/11/07/the-rising-age-gap-in-economic-well-being/

  120. Lara's Dad January 7, 2013 at 6:52 pm #

    To all you doom-deniers, here’s Bill McKibben
    Obama Versus Physics
    “Change usually happens very slowly, even once all the serious people have decided there’s a problem.”

    “We’re talking about a fight between human beings and physics. And physics is entirely uninterested in human timetables.”

    “Physics doesn’t understand that rapid action on climate change threatens the most lucrative business on Earth, the fossil fuel industry. It’s implacable. It takes the carbon dioxide we produce and translates it into heat, which means into melting ice and rising oceans and gathering storms. And unlike other problems, the less you do, the worse it gets. Do nothing and you soon have a nightmare on your hands.”
    ymmv

  121. ozone January 7, 2013 at 7:02 pm #

    I shall be mindful of that; thanks again.

  122. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 7:03 pm #

    there is no basis for confidence that it will exist in time to replace depleting fossil fuels.
    ==============
    If you have lived outside the USA in the third world, you know we can live on one-tenth the energy that is wasted in the USA.
    So, we don’t need to “replace depleting fossil fuels” … we only need to replace one-tenth of our extremely wasteful consumption, and I agree with you that alternatives can eventually do that.

  123. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 7:07 pm #

    Thank you for this. Bill McKibben is one of those who has stuck his neck out, and defeated the multinationals by getting the XL pipeline construction stopped/(postponed for a year).
    The multinationals wanted to start construction on the northern line last year. McKibben and others stopped them nonviolently.

  124. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 7:15 pm #

    350 parts per million is what many scientists, climate experts, and progressive national governments are now saying is the safe upper limit for CO2 in our atmosphere.
    Accelerating arctic warming and other early climate impacts have led scientists to conclude that we are already above the safe zone at our current 390ppm, and that unless we are able to rapidly return to below 350 ppm this century, we risk reaching tipping points and irreversible impacts such as the melting of the Greenland ice sheet and major methane releases from increased permafrost melt.
    Check out the web site: http://www.350.org

  125. ozone January 7, 2013 at 7:23 pm #

    ******************************************************************************************************
    http://richardbrenneman.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/blog-9-march-fish.jpg
    So then, any further questions on the ‘Murkin zeitgeist and where we might be headed?

  126. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 7:25 pm #

    It’s called being still.
    ==========
    Thanks for this, Tripp … and it applies on different levels. Stilling the mind in meditation, example.
    Your post reminded me of Gary Snyder’s writing on PLACE and the importance of being in one place and staying rooted there. I’m thinking of ditching the South American homestead and focusing exclusively on my place in the great american southwest. Haven’t made any decisions yet, but airfaires are going up every year and the annual travel to South America is grating on my values.

  127. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 7:46 pm #

    Yes, Kyoo, that thought did occur to me, but it’s the anonymous internet, so why waste time speculating who is doing this.
    “College Boy” did seem to be a tip off, though.
    LOL!

  128. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 7:52 pm #

    If you (or anyone else) can name something more devastating (to the US, and through us the world) or more easily stopped (for the US) than mass immigration, we sure would like to hear what it is, lsjo.
    =========
    Legal immigration? Easily stopped? NumbersUSA has not been able to stop legal immigration, though many racists do want legal immigration stopped.
    NumbersUSA is popular throughout the white nationalist and skinhead communities.
    The NumbersUSA’s campaign has been promoted by white nationalist David Duke, a former Grand Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
    On Vinlanders Social Club, NumbersUSA is promoted on the home page with a direct link to its website. Vinlanders Social Club is a midwest coalition of racist skinhead groups with a history of violence against members of the black community.
    Stormfront directs Stormfront members to the NumbersUSA website. Stormfront is the leading white nationalist, white supremacist, neo-Nazi, and skinhead social networking forum.
    Although NumbersUSA has actively tried to distance itself from the extreme far right, its message stills resonates deeply with these communities. Even the group’s own Executive Director, Roy Beck, has spoken to a white supremacist organization, the Council of Conservative Citizens in the past.
    Therefore, until NumbersUSA strongly condemns the comments made on its web-site and the promotion of its messaging on skinhead and white nationalist sites, they are not a credible voice on the important issues surrounding immigration in our country.

  129. San Jose Mom 51 January 7, 2013 at 8:06 pm #

    You’re probably right on this one! I enjoyed the predictions for your neighbor last week. How awful to look at a VW full of crap over one’s morning coffee.
    My neighbor, Silicon Valley Barbie and her husband the troll, have a bag of redwood bark that’s been sitting by their driveway for three years. No changes in bag and weed placement predicted in the coming year–unless they go bankrupt.
    The interesting thing is that they both work for non-profits. I’ve always been fascinated by how much “VP’s of Development” get paid. She’s VP of development for Junior Acheivement–perpetuating the myth of the American Dream amongst suburban school children. If she lost her job, perhaps her Plan B would be to become a pole dancer–although now that she’s 45, she might not make much money.
    Jen

  130. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 8:09 pm #

    Republicans have admitted minting a trillion-dollar platinum coin is constitutional. Now Paul Krugman is endorsing the idea.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/07/paul-krugman-trillion-dollar-coin_n_2427160.html
    “Should President Obama be willing to print a $1 trillion platinum coin if Republicans try to force America into default? Yes, absolutely,” Krugman wrote. “He will, after all, be faced with a choice between two alternatives: one that’s silly but benign, the other that’s equally silly but both vile and disastrous.”
    Debt ceiling crisis? What debt ceiling crisis?

  131. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 8:19 pm #

    The movement to reclaim America has begun:
    Direct the United States Mint to make a single platinum trillion dollar coin!
    With the creation and Treasury deposit of a new platinum coin with a value of $1 trillion US Dollars, we would avert the absurd-yet-imminent debt ceiling faceoff in Congress in two quick and simple steps! While this may seem like an unnecessarily extreme measure, it is no more absurd than playing political football with the US — and global — economy at stake.
    Sign the petition to the White House here:
    https://t.co/cDvD6lAu

  132. Soul Pucker January 7, 2013 at 8:26 pm #

    soka wrote: “Direct the United States Mint to make a single platinum trillion dollar coin!”
    What image will be put on the face of this new coin? What will we call it?
    Why don’t we call it “The Spread Eagle”?

  133. Soul Pucker January 7, 2013 at 8:29 pm #

    asoka wrote: “Direct the United States Mint to make a single platinum trillion dollar coin!”
    Isn’t it rather embarrassing that we seek to solve our problems with more accounting fraud and lunacy?
    “When you’re born into this Life, you’re given a ticket to ‘The Freak Show’. When you’re born in America, you’re given a front row seat.”
    —U.S. Comedian George Carlin.

  134. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 8:30 pm #

    45 is not too old for pole dancing. Two words: Demi Moore.

  135. bproman January 7, 2013 at 8:30 pm #

    We are so deep in it.

  136. Soul Pucker January 7, 2013 at 8:32 pm #

    asoka wrote: “Direct the United States Mint to make a single platinum trillion dollar coin!”
    In DeNiro’s new movie “Being Flynn”, he plays a homeless lunatic who believes that he’s a gifted writer. To try to get cash, he keeps forging checks to himself from large publishing houses as “advances” on his new book.

  137. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 8:35 pm #

    GEORGE CARLIN ON DEBT;
    The Catholic Church alone could wipe out the national debt if all you did was tax their real estate.

  138. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 8:38 pm #

    Isn’t it rather embarrassing that we seek to solve our problems by threatening to turn the USA into a deadbeat who refuses to pay?

  139. progress4conserving January 7, 2013 at 8:45 pm #

    “Legal immigration? Easily stopped? NumbersUSA has not been able to stop legal immigration, though many racists do want legal immigration stopped.”
    -asoka..talks in circles-
    asoka..you are persisting in your racist belief that labeling an idea “racist,” or finding ONE supporter of the idea who is “racist,” is enough, forevermore – to render that idea invalid.
    This is a sort of “moral platitude.”
    And people wonder why asoka..has achieved his permanent CFN title as
    The Resident Impediment.
    ===========================
    And asoka..is a hopeless troll, in answer to several posters who pointed out that this CFN thread degrades after post 100 or so – he’s the big reason why, week after week.
    PRD, or any others, care to answer my questions about reduction of US immigration as the only logical approach to the world’s biggest problems.
    Because all asoka..has to justify the opposite idea are pro-growth cheerleading and moral platitudes of one sort or another.

  140. Soul Pucker January 7, 2013 at 8:50 pm #

    Rather than minting a US$1 trillion coin to be called “The Booger” with an image on it of Bill Clinton picking his nose, why don’t we just declare toilet paper to be lawful currency for settling debts just with foreigners?

  141. Soul Pucker January 7, 2013 at 8:53 pm #

    Wasn’t Mitt Romney’s grandoise, short-term, cornhole fix for America’s economic woes basically to turn the U.S. into a Caribbean-style tax haven with zero tax for corporations, after which the U.S. corporations would then repatriate all of their ill-gotten booty back to the U.S. to buy up everything at fire sale prices?

  142. Donny-Don January 7, 2013 at 9:00 pm #

    College Boy,
    Thanks. Sometimes I feel like the only one here who likes to introduce a little reality-check into these discussions. I agree with your comments.
    Remember Y2K? When the world was going to float belly-up like a dead goldfish at midnight Jan 1 (according to Kunstler)? And remember 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012, when the Dow Jones Industrial Average was going to dip below 4500? (Since 2009, the Dow has more than doubled).
    I enjoy JHK’s columns because he’s a good writer, and a good observer of human nature, with a wicked turn of the phrase, and a general grasp of the overall unsustainability of the wacky global economic system we’ve created. But things ain’t gonna collapse apocalyptically in 2013. Nor in 2014. Nor in 2015. We’re in for a long, slow ride down the descending side of the Peak Oil curve, but we’re still several decades away from being reduced to living off of nuts and berries.
    That’s the park Kunstler doesn’t get. Everything he writes, he could have written in 1975, and it would seem just as prescient and imminent. But humanity has a way of slogging its way through … especially while there are still abundant fossil fuels available at relatively reasonable prices. That won’t last forever, of course. But it’s gonna carry us through for awhile.
    Which is why I enjoy reading Kunstler, but take his doomsday predictions with a grain of salt. I’ve made good money on my investments over the last 20 years by questioning the “conventional wisdom” of the overpaid Wall Street fratboys as well as the doomsday paranoids like Kunstler. Let JHK continue predicting the End of the World as we know it. It’s coming, but not nearly as soon as he thinks …

  143. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 9:01 pm #

    Wasn’t Ronald Reagan the one who raised the debt ceiling 18 times during his two terms?
    Once you commit yourself legally to pay a debt, you are a deadbeat if you refuse to pay.

  144. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 9:08 pm #

    I am claiming bragging rights here on CFN. You cannot even say “but the trend is up” because you got the trend line completely wrong. It went down.
    ===========
    College Boy, the trend line from 2008 to 2012 is down, but you need to look at a longer data period and you will see the trend line is indeed up over a longer period. It has to be, College Boy, because fossil fuels are finite resources.

  145. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 9:13 pm #

    And yet I permit you to post here week after week. Impediment FAIL
    LOL!

  146. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 9:19 pm #

    Let JHK continue predicting the End of the World as we know it. It’s coming, but not nearly as soon as he thinks …
    =———————
    I estimate we have about 42 years (averaging reports from a variety of sources)
    That is serious. 42 years is a blink of the eye in geologic time and, for the sake of the seven generations to come, we need to act now.
    I have posted many times on practical, personal choices that we can make, things that are in our control, that collectively form global (not national) solutions. I feel a sense of urgency, regardless of JHK’s time frame.

  147. Soul Pucker January 7, 2013 at 10:29 pm #

    JHK wrote: “Does anybody now breathing even remember radical politics? Whether you liked them or not — and I was not crazy about the whole “revolution” of the late 1960s, which I lived through — it at least represented a level of seriousness that is now absolutely and starkly absent today, especially in young people.”
    I’m not sure that the Founding Fathers ever designed the U.S. government to be a “serious” government? The Founding Fathers understood that people are basically crazy and when given power they go absolutely bonkers. Maybe we’re better off just laughing at the rolling Collapse rather than empowering nut cases to try to solve it? We may become progressively poorer, but at least we won’t end up in inter..nm,ent c,,am ps.

  148. Schwerpunkt January 7, 2013 at 10:30 pm #

    I am not sure about the collapse or if this show we have been expecting/waiting for will arrive in the next 59.04 years or not. The events of 2008 brought up so much bile in me, and took away what little savings/value I had left that I started looking for answers and listening to and then making predictions. To date, few have been true. Here too, few have been true, and while entertaining, I had tuned in to this (and others) for some advice and some understanding. I have found many good posts from JHK and community, as well as links to articles and other blogs. However, any idea as to where the how the what the hell is happening…. no idea. I am at a loss… do we just moan about Peak Oil, Paper Money, and blah blah blah like a bunch of old guffers outside of the general store, or is there something, some thing we are all missing that points our direction, even if that direction is indeed more of the same – a growing police corporatist state in no way ready or willing to collapse for several generations and if anything, this state will track your face, monitor your credit, and the corporation will be seamless with the government as it already seems to be in the People’s Republic of China.
    For what it is worth, my own rant-a-go-go is at schwerpunkter-dot-wordpress-dot-com but look not there for valid predictions, sound logic, or any insight… I think I as other doomers have perhaps reached our EOTWAWKI….

  149. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 10:36 pm #

    This is not a moral platitude, P4C:
    WASHINGTON — The United States spends more money on immigration enforcement — nearly $18 billion in the 2012 fiscal year — than on its other law enforcement agencies combined, according to a report released Monday from the nonpartisan Migration Policy Institute. That spending went to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Customs and Border Protection and US-Visit, a program that helps states and localities identify undocumented immigrants. By contrast, the U.S. spent $14.4 billion — combined — on its other prime law enforcement agencies: the FBI, Secret Service, Drug Enforcement Administration, U.S. Marshal Service and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

    We just can’t afford to waste our money on immigration.
    Legalize the undocumented… now!
    Remove caps on legal immigration… now!

  150. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 10:38 pm #

    Legalize the undocumented… now!
    Remove caps on legal immigration… now!
    And in memory of the good captain,
    Unlock and unload!

  151. Shakazulu January 7, 2013 at 10:41 pm #

    “Put whatever energy you can muster into finding a community to be a part of.”
    I have.
    For I have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. I have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. For on earth I do not have an enduring city, but I am looking for the city that is to come.

  152. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 10:46 pm #

    Since 1986, when Congress passed the enforcement-heavy Immigration Reform and Control Act, the U.S. has spent nearly $187 billion on immigration enforcement. We cannot afford to continue this kind of wasteful spending.
    That is not a moral platitude, or a desire for ethnic food, or a wish for economic growth. It’s just plain old dollars and cents common sense, like they even recognize in Georgia.
    Open the borders. Welcome the Mexicans, the Muslims, and anyone else who wants to live here. There is no limit to the number of people we can love.

  153. Shakazulu January 7, 2013 at 10:49 pm #

    “With a newly-minted double major in Anthropology and Religious Studies, she can be jobless in TWO fields. She’s damn intelligent, but not practical.”
    I was a dreamer too in my youth. Now a poor working man with a double degree in worthlessness from the U of I with honors….this Dilbert strip hangs on my frig:
    http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2004-12-17/
    1 of my degrees is in English Lit.

  154. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 10:52 pm #

    “Put whatever energy you can muster into finding a community to be a part of.”
    I have, too.
    The Buddhas exist in the limitless skies of no-mind. They are agents of no government or religion. They are the Awakened Ones, the transmitters of a Universal Consciousness that aspires for all sentient beings to flower into their ultimate potential by realizing their own Buddha-nature.
    It is your birthright, Shakazulu.

  155. Shakazulu January 7, 2013 at 10:54 pm #

    “If another mega war starts,oil will finish in just 2 years maximum.”
    Yep. WW3 should’ve been first on your list. It’s next. To fight for control over what oil is left.

  156. Soul Pucker January 7, 2013 at 10:54 pm #

    They’ve probably figured out the magic formula that if they f’..ck things up, then they’ll get bigger mandates and more power, right?

  157. Soul Pucker January 7, 2013 at 10:57 pm #

    If you’ve got the power, then you really can’t lose no matter how poorly you perform since all losses are socialized and all gains privatized, right?
    It’s like an educational system in which the teacher has to pass the kids no matter what.

  158. Shakazulu January 7, 2013 at 10:59 pm #

    Buddha is too far out for me man.

  159. Soul Pucker January 7, 2013 at 10:59 pm #

    “That God Damn Cinderella! I’m gonna show her who’s the fairest of them all!”
    – The Wicked Step Mother

  160. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 11:03 pm #

    I appreciate all you guys with “worthless” college degrees. It makes your blogging so much more interesting. It’s not all about money.

  161. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 11:10 pm #

    “Everything that happens happens as it should, and if you observe carefully, you will find this to be so.”
    –Marcus Aurelius

  162. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 11:21 pm #

    When hungry, I eat; when tired, I sleep. When I speak or act with a clear awareness, happiness stays with me.
    Buddha is about as down to earth as you can get. And also the most cosmic you can get. Buddha is the real deal. You should check out the Dhammapada.
    Awareness is the path of immortality; thoughtlessness is the path of death. Those who are aware do not die.
    If that does not make sense, you should definitely check out the Dhammapada.

  163. asoka.. January 7, 2013 at 11:35 pm #

    The trillion- dollar platinum coin (which can be made with a few ounces of platinum) will never circulate, but it will be used to back cash payments coming from the Treasury that would have otherwise been financed by bond purchases.
    If the government financed itself this way in general, that would absolutely be inflationary. But the president can hold inflation expectations steady by making absolutely clear that the policy will not lead to a net change in the money supply over the long term.
    Obama should pledge that once Congress authorizes additional borrowing, he will direct the Treasury to issue bonds to cover the government’s coin-backed spending and then to melt the coin.
    The concern about inflation actually gets at why the platinum coin strategy will work to defuse the debt-ceiling crisis. Minting a platinum coin will demonstrate that Congress accidentally gave the president direct control over monetary policy, allowing him to inflate if he wishes. The need to neutralize that threat will motivate Republicans to raise the debt ceiling.
    Like the debt ceiling itself, the platinum coin exercise is an asymmetrical, negative-sum game. Nobody wants to hit the debt ceiling, but it bothers conservatives less because they view increasing government dysfunction as useful for achieving their policy goals. Nobody wants the president to pay the government’s bills by printing money, but it bothers conservatives more because they are more afraid of inflation.
    If the president is clear about his lack of any long-term intention to interfere with the money supply, I don’t expect the platinum coin to cause a spike in prices. But if it does, that will only add more motivation for Congress to end the crisis by passing a law that both removes the president’s authority to print money and abolishes the debt ceiling.
    SOURCE: “WHY PLATINUM COIN OPPONENTS ARE ALL WRONG
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-07/why-platinum-coin-opponents-are-all-wrong.html

  164. k-dog January 8, 2013 at 12:50 am #

    His choice of successor proved him wrong.

  165. Soul Pucker January 8, 2013 at 1:47 am #

    JHK wrote: “Does anybody now breathing even remember radical politics? Whether you liked them or not — and I was not crazy about the whole “revolution” of the late 1960s, which I lived through — it at least represented a level of seriousness that is now absolutely and starkly absent today, especially in young people.”
    Whatever happened to the Gray Panthers? What about the idea of a popular mass to..ta, l itar,,ian movement of Old People?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_Panthers

  166. Mike Moskos January 8, 2013 at 3:20 am #

    I second the hero of the decade, Bradley Manning for sticking his neck out. Sadly, our Nobel Prize-winning Fuhrer isn’t getting too much shit for torturing him either.
    Here’s how I know the government is still running: there are hundreds of churches here in Miami, FL and I have yet to see one with a community garden. Too much trouble apparently to create . . . at least now. When gov. hits its true fiscal cliff, every inch of grass will be torn out at every church for community gardens.
    But, I think gov. will default in a long slog mostly by more rapidly inflating its way out. While waiting for a bus transfer in one of those pseudo suburban parts of town where they warehouse the poor–no community gardens there either–I was talking with an elderly man and he told me his Social Security benefits were increased just $22 a month for the new year. I guess when the government controls how the CPI is calculated, the amount can be anything unrelated to reality. Another 5-10 years of such an “increase” way below what it should be and first he’ll be homeless, and then begging for food.

  167. jeloughrey January 8, 2013 at 3:51 am #

    Brilliant post today, Jim. Any modern-day “revolution” will look nothing like the 60’s. Our country has become so fractured and polarized that any reaction to increased societal pressures will continue to manifest itself in more senseless murders, suicides and other singular tragedies. As gun sales explode, the true objective of the Second Amendment will continue to erode. It seems the archaic Wild West mentality of “you’re on your own” applies to 21st century-style revolution as well.

  168. Soul Pucker January 8, 2013 at 5:27 am #

    If any of you busy CFNers get a chance, please send a Happy Birthday email to the new leader of the Stalinist regime of North Korea. I’m sure that he would appreciate it. Thanks.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-un

  169. Soul Pucker January 8, 2013 at 6:04 am #

    “North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un has reportedly sent two pounds of sweets to every child in the country to mark his birthday on 8 January.
    According to a radio report from state-run North Korean Central Broadcasting Station, Jong-Un used an aircraft to make sure all North Korean children, from the age of ten and below, received sweet treats.”

  170. vermonter January 8, 2013 at 6:24 am #

    You know, black transgender studies major/asoka, the reason people don’t like you around here is not your contrarian view, but the way you express it. There’s plenty of room around here for different perspectives. The problem with you is that your intention is not only to express a different point of view, but rather, to be deliberately irritating and provocative. While the substance of your comments could potentially add to the discussion, your style, in fact, detracts from it (which I suppose is your intention, as it is with all trolls). You may have a good mind, but unfortunately, you also have a personality disorder. Please get some help so that the rest of us can can get a reprieve from viewing your public humiliation week after week.

  171. Soul Pucker January 8, 2013 at 8:09 am #

    JHK wrote: “Civil disorder would at least mean something….”
    I’m a bit surprised at JHK’s apparent call for open revolution. I had always assumed that JHK’s position was that economic forces would lead us kicking and screaming to a world-made-by-hand regardless of what we want or do not want, which in my view is probably correct. Maybe JHK is not happy with the pain that he’s starting to see along the path to the world-made-by-hand?
    Speaking of a World-Made-By-Hand, did you happen to notice that the revolutionary to..tal, itar,ian Soul Brother in the poster only has 1 hand?
    http://www.posterscene.com/html_index.cfm?page=item_page&itemoid=74373

  172. HenryMorgan January 8, 2013 at 8:37 am #

    So I’m reading a biography of James Wilkinson, Revolutionary War Hero, Commanding General of The United States Army, and at the same time a paid spy, Agent 13, for the Spanish Empire. One of his acts, for $12,000, was to reveal the existence and scope of the Lewis and Clark expedition to the North American Spanish Army, who dispatched at least 3 sizable armed patrols el Norte to destroy the American Argonauts. A little earlier, in the 1790s, the entire US Army, almost to the soldier, was destroyed in two separate battles in Central Ohio against the combined forces of Chief Little Turtle. And in the early 1800s the VP of the United States gunned down the Treasury Secretary in a duel, took off for Louisiana Territory, and conspired with Spain and France to form a new, independent nation in the American interior for the purposes of waging war on the Government of the United States.
    Jim, the more I look into it, it occurs to me, at all times, this place has always been on shaky ground, a near run thing. We have the example of a relatively stable period, 1945-1963 and this is what we use as our benchmark. But even that time was punctuated by the brutal Korean War, which itself almost spiraled into a civilization ending Nuclear Holocaust. Its never been a country where any matter is really settled, not even its language or National Identity. And now, after 200 years of sacrifice and struggle, we seemed to be evolving into a half African, Half Latin American stew, ungovernable and bankrupt. After 230 years this is where destiny has taken us.
    Typical New England Morning, but not the kind Robert Frost or Thornton Wilder would write about. Last night cop gunned down by maniac in Norwich, man shot to death outside convenience store in New Haven, arson fires in 1970s apt complex in East Hartford. (news footage: police cars with flashing lights in dismal neighborhoods, yellow tape everywhere, little hispanic kids wrapped in blankets on sidewalks at 1:00AM, erie glow of streetlamps reflecting in muddy puddles) This is what the end of civilization looks like.
    –Panic in Year 0

  173. HenryMorgan January 8, 2013 at 9:28 am #

    But on the bright side the Governor has appointed two new Justices to the State Supreme Court: one is a notorious Homosexual, the other is a little Puerto Rican Lady.
    –Panic in Year Zero

  174. ozone January 8, 2013 at 10:12 am #

    Nicely done, Dawg. With one brief sentence, you’ve erased a heaving mountain of fatalistic garbage and pseudo-spiritual claptrap. (The dawgie-treat was worth digging for, ;o)

  175. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 10:19 am #

    “This is not a moral platitude, P4C:”
    “We just can’t afford to waste our money on immigration.
    Legalize the undocumented… now!
    Remove caps on legal immigration… now!
    -asoka..the master debater-
    Here we have multiple moral platitudes and two tautologies – all wrapped up in one short post that produces heat, but not light.
    ========================
    whatever.

  176. ront January 8, 2013 at 10:22 am #

    “…even if it succeeded in passing more paper laws, can have very little actual effect. The guns are already out there, by the millions.”
    This is like when some fools at some point in time decided to put locks on windows and doors. I have often heard it said that these locks are there to “keep out the honest people.”
    I am convinced that the smallest step sincerely taken in a well thought out direction will make a difference. In the very, very BIG PICTURE, small is not very different than large.

  177. ozone January 8, 2013 at 10:28 am #

    Well, hell, that should just about fix everything! We ought to quit worrying… things are “being taken care of”. Relaaaaaaax, gum’mintal powers have got it all under control.
    Just look at what they’re rollin’ out at Auswi– I mean, DISNEYworld. See? Perfect place to try out a tactic that will keep us all safe and make queues shorter:
    http://jezebel.com/5973785/disney-parks-to-introduce-computerized-bracelet-to-track-your-every-move-er-to-uh-make-your-visit-more-convenient
    JHK should adore the moniker they’ve stamped on this “convenience”: MyMagic+
    (What’s that about “Too Much Magic”? But, this is GOOD magic, Poppets! The sign over the gate says, “Mickey makes you free”. Y’all c’mon down.)

  178. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 10:31 am #

    “Just ignore him/her (whoever you are talking about) and he/she will go away.”
    “See what I mean?” -ozone-
    Yep, I know what you mean.
    But apparently “it” will never go away, not within the limits of my attention span, at any rate.*
    So, you can practice “studied ignoring.”
    That is sure to work as well as my making the worst of “its” errors and racisms visible.
    We’ll just keep pecking at it.
    Each in our own way.
    *for example – I’ve been posting here for three years. Logically, “its” prediction of “42 years” should have been reduced to “39 years” by now.
    Nope. Neither physics nor math nor logic exists..in..it. That’s a clue, btw.

  179. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 10:36 am #

    “I have often heard it said that these locks are there to “keep out the honest people.””: -ront-
    Ront, the locks are a simple deterrent.
    Firearms are, similarly, a simple deterrent.
    =====================

  180. HenryMorgan January 8, 2013 at 10:36 am #

    Oz only early Jan. and I’m already coming down with Cabin Fever. Sounds like you are, too.
    –Panic in Year Zero

  181. ozone January 8, 2013 at 10:42 am #

    Thanks for trying. We appreciate it.
    Unfortunately, his salary depends on trollery.
    (I think that means that somebody views Kunstler’s prognostications as “dang’rous to to th’ st’bil’ty of th’ FUSA”, thus on the list for 24/7 trolling. Yes Virginia, the Stasi HAS come to town! Smile for the camera…)

  182. ozone January 8, 2013 at 10:53 am #

    Good clue; and a perfect position from which to project piffle!

  183. ozone January 8, 2013 at 10:54 am #

    Yes, it’s true… but I ain’t about to go to no penguin plunge to relieve it!! ;o)

  184. jerry January 8, 2013 at 10:55 am #

    I don’t buy into your belief of economic collapse. If the entire world is playing on the same board with the same pieces and cards, I can only assume that the game will continue as usual. Money printing and borrowing/lending will also continue.
    Yes, average Americans and world citizens will suffer under the guise of techno innovations. Europe has had expensive food and fuel for decades and their economies are still moving along. The same exists in other countries.
    Yes, energy is being misused and abused with no one of authority saying “stop this excessive use of limited fossil fuel produced energy! Turn the F***ing lights off!” Carter did but then Reagan laughed at it.
    We are seeing the New Normal in its early stages. Yes, incomes and wages will continue to stagnant and the credit card society will over extend themselves forever. The inept dumbing down of our culture and its Jersey Shore-minded people will further itself as you have described standing outside the 7-11 stores.
    So, just maybe we will see people eat less, drink less soda, eat less candy and junk foods as a result of the high cost of food and pretend foods. Droughts, fuel costs, equipment costs and such appear to push the prices higher. This will only expand.
    Sea levels will rise 3 feet by the year 2100. Farmers are already comparing their regions to the time of the great Dust Storm conditions.
    This is the New Normal.

  185. newworld January 8, 2013 at 11:21 am #

    Good remarks about the complexity issues, in Russia the Banksters took over after the fall of empire, in Amuurika the Banksters have taken over before the fall of the empire. We need to borrow some Putin cages for these vermin.

  186. Goat1080 January 8, 2013 at 12:16 pm #

    So, Big Fat AIG is suing the Federal Government who recently bailed them out! Ouch! Yeah, that’s right, bite the hand that feeds you (or rescues you)!
    I think the government’s response should be to haul in the top fat cats of that organization (and others like it that were involved in the grand banking swindle of the age) and hold them PERSONALLY liable for fraud in the strongest of terms.

  187. Lucky 13 January 8, 2013 at 12:26 pm #

    Sounds like he is an imitator.
    Following the lead of SCOTUS.
    [Kagan and Soto, homo and Hispanic].

  188. Rhino January 8, 2013 at 1:04 pm #

    Where did your mommy send you to school anyway? You never did tell us.
    But nevermind that. So OK College Boy, here we go again. Let’s look at a website called Inflationdata.com. They have a chart of oil prices going back to 1946. They have nominal prices and inflation adjusted prices side by side. Here it is:
    http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/Historical_Oil_Prices_Table.asp
    Now let’s assume for a moment that whoever compiled these numbers didn’t fuck them up ie we assume they are accurate. Now, we may require a willing suspension of disbelief given that these guys get inflation numbers from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. But that’s ok by you. Isn’t it Mr One Percent? The government never lies does it? Especially a government owned and run for the benefit of the One Percent? Right? Especially one of your favorite conjurors and disseminators of statistical mirages. Right?
    But nevermind these quibbles too. What do we see? Let’s do some simple arithmetic. Over this time – 1946 to 2012 – the average price of crude in inflation adjusted USD was about 39 bucks. The average price of crude in inflation adjusted USD from 1946 to 1973 ie just before the oil shocks of 1974 was 23 bucks. The average price in inflation adjusted USD from 1974 to 1997 was about 48 bucks. From 1998 (the low according to this chart) to 2012 it was about 55 bucks.
    So now the price is 93USD. Which is a whole lot higher than either 39 or 23 or 48 or 55. And just eyeballing those numbers shows an upward trend since 2009 ie after the spike in 2008.
    So College Boy what you have is close to a sixfold increase since the historic low in the inflation adjusted price in 1998. Or an eightfold increase in the nominal price. Or more than twice its 1946 to 2012 inflation adjusted average or more than four times the inflation adjusted average from 1946 to 1973. Or about 1.7 times the inflation adjusted average between 1998 and 2012.
    Tell us College Boy, do you know anyone whose wages have gone up eightfold since 1998? Or sixfold? Or even 1.7 times? I mean regular folks and not One Percenters. Oh, you don’t know any regular folks?
    A real kick in the balls to an economy and especially to one whose One Percenters are offshoring every last possible job and nut and bolt of productive capacity. Wouldn’t you say?
    I mean, how the fuck do One Percenters expect a working stiff to buy exports from production facilities that the One Percenters offshored to China, pay a mortgage, save for the kids’ college, buy even a cheap, crappy car and fill the tank (and make the One Percenters’ friends in the Persian Gulf rich) while working at some shit job for some shit wage at FedEx or WalMart?
    Must be a bitch constantly shilling for the One Percent. Why do you do it? Why do the One Percent need you College Boy?
    So tell us again College Boy how you live luxuriously and sumptuously on 12 grand a year, how you drive a car, pay the insurance, fill the tank, with airtravel and all the electronic doodads. Tell us again College Boy, we need a good laugh.
    Yes, yes, open the immigration spigots. The One Percent can never have too many desperate people working for peanuts. Can they Mr One Percent?

  189. Rhino January 8, 2013 at 1:11 pm #

    To P4C and Ozone thankyou for the very nice compliments. For what it’s worth I enjoy your posts also.

  190. Rhino January 8, 2013 at 1:21 pm #

    Fucking hilarious. I guess the govt was a tetch too assiduous in making sure that AIG paid off the bets that Wall Street investment houses won.
    I mean you had the likes of companies like Goldman buying credit default swaps insuring against default on bonds it didn’t even own. Have to make sure that AIG pays up.
    What a business. You cannot make this shit up. You have to wonder in which one of the 10 to the power of 500, out of the way, forgotten and ignored by Big G, demon-run fold of the multiverse is such a thing even legal.

  191. xhalor January 8, 2013 at 1:33 pm #

    “Yes, yes, open the immigration spigots. The One Percent can never have too many desperate people working for peanuts.”
    ————————————————–
    It no longer matters how we “feel” about immigration. As the equatorial regions of the planet become more drought stricken and uninhabitable, people will flee north and south to stay alive. Not too many places to flee southward.
    It is summer in Australia. What’s happening there RIGHT NOW. This weekend’s weather in the Great Lakes basin is supposed to reach a high of 56 degrees.

  192. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 1:43 pm #

    I’m going to make a religion where we believe that the life of every bacterium is sacred. Thus when I start my small business, I can complain about their healthcare plans providing them antibiotics. Won’t someone think of those poor paramecium?

  193. Radu Voda January 8, 2013 at 1:43 pm #

    And? So? You’re talking like we can’t stop them. We can: blow up their boats, shoot them as they step over the border, etc. The Greeks recently closed their border with Land Mines. That’s what being a Nation means – having border and enforcing them. Otherwise you’re just an administrative division of the New World Order.
    We have every moral right to do this. In fact, it is our duty. Not doing it would be immoral and a betrayal of the People of the United States. After we make an example of some of them, they’ll stop trying.

  194. Radu Voda January 8, 2013 at 1:49 pm #

    Our bodies are crawling with countless little micro-organisms. It’s horrible. We are not single but involuntary Commonwealths. Only we when we attain the Body of Light or Mental Body will have earned our Singlehood, true Individuality where our insides are the same as our outsides. Until then, we are hypocrites and infested. We just have to bear the outer impurity and work on our inner purity and integrity. Only then will earn the right to a better cosmic situation beyond this biological world.

  195. Radu Voda January 8, 2013 at 1:54 pm #

    Good call. Just as when Obama was innagurated, the Republicans made Michael Steele their Chairman. Horrible imitation showing their utter lack of integrity. Steele’s first statement was to call his own party a bunch of Ku Klux Klan. Utterly absurd and pathetic.

  196. Radu Voda January 8, 2013 at 1:57 pm #

    What exactly are you saying? That you don’t lock your house and car? Then you are a fool – as are people who want the Goverment and Criminals to have all the guns.

  197. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 2:13 pm #

    “In my view, legal mass immigration into the United States is the Gordion Knot – cut through it and there may be some hope for the future of humanity, worldwide.”
    I get it. Declare that implementing your pet cause will save humanity. Nice one.
    Now if we could just get everyone to switch from plastic to paper, there might be some hope for us all!

  198. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 2:14 pm #

    I don’t know what that was you posted but I’m somewhat chagrined to admit that I liked it.

  199. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 2:17 pm #

    Humanity is killing the life in the oceans for the great cause of…..sushi.
    And some of you people think there’s still hope. Bah.

  200. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 2:19 pm #

    “I mean you had the likes of companies like Goldman buying credit default swaps insuring against default on bonds it didn’t even own.”
    You at least have to give them points for purely malicious creativity.

  201. Radu Voda January 8, 2013 at 2:29 pm #

    Al Roker told Nancy Snyderman that he pooped in his pants at the White House.

  202. Radu Voda January 8, 2013 at 2:32 pm #

    You are attracted to very small things. This probably means that you will be reborn as a Paramecium or Amoeba. Are you turned on by dwarves or minimes?
    Sorry Little People of America! I’m just trying to protect you.

  203. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 2:40 pm #

    What do you have against the microbes buddy? They’re the most evolutionarily successful of all life forms and will be kicking around long after we’ve turned this mother out. Just you try living in a boiling hot geyser for awhile.

  204. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 2:41 pm #

    “Our bodies are crawling with countless little micro-organisms. It’s horrible.”
    It is quite wonderful, actually, this symbiosis. We wouldn’t have gotten too far without them.

  205. Radu Voda January 8, 2013 at 2:41 pm #

    How will saving America save the world? Sounds like you’re clinging to Exceptionalism somehow.

  206. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 2:42 pm #

    Is it like that show Heroes? Save the cheerleader, save the world. America is the cheerleader. I dunno, just thinking out loud here.

  207. Radu Voda January 8, 2013 at 2:49 pm #

    Yes I know. It’s humbling. Atoms become a community called Molecules. Molecules become viruses – alive kind of. These become bacteria. Bacteria become Microrganisms. These get bigger and become plants and animals. Bunches of little animals work together and become bigger animals.
    Each is itself and part of something bigger. Cancer is a rebellion and regression back against the unity of the body. A headache is the brain trying to get out of the body and walk away – as if had legs.
    Ever see the Outer Limits episode about the Invisibles? Brains looking for bodies taking people over and making them into Al Gore types.

  208. Radu Voda January 8, 2013 at 2:52 pm #

    Don’t get me wrong – we should save America by closing the border and deporting the illegals. But the world? Are you saying that our example of doing that would inspire Europe – give them the green light to do the same? I agree if that’s what you mean.

  209. xhalor January 8, 2013 at 3:13 pm #

    I seriously doubt that you have the stones to pull the trigger on starving, desperate people. But while we’re on the subject of pulling the trigger, I am simply amazed that there hasn’t been one comment here today on the Piers Morgan interview (if you want to call it that) of Alex Jones. What more of an endorsement could you want…
    for straight jackets.
    HeeHeeeeeeeee!

  210. k-dog January 8, 2013 at 3:38 pm #

    You think?
    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Any Ideas who?
    This Fracks Me Up
    Just my personal frackpot theory de’jour you understand. We all know I’m a mad dog that doesn’t get out enough, but:
    The End of Suburbia, a 52 minute documentary on peak oil that projects an alternate reality of a world where hydraulic fracking was never implemented as a last ditch effort to recover a finite dwindling resource presents the viewer with a portrait of doom and gloom, a society with no future.
    While not the original perpetrator of this fantasy a certain James Howard Kunstler upon learning that his views on suburbia were supported by hard facts and and science must have wiggled with delight at the opportunity to participate in a project that buttress his view of suburbia as an empty wasteland of meaningless conformity and empty promises so well.
    I saw the flick at a small gathering of green sprout nurds in a small theater in Seattle’s Capital Hill Area. Walking in from the street and down a short flight of stairs I passed a card table covered with a pale yellow vinyl offering literature and CD,s of the documentary. There was a glass fishbowl for donations, I bought a CD.
    A kumbaya session was held after the film which was disrupted by a leather kilt salesman who insisted that the only real problem in America is caused by the rich white men in charge not getting enough air down to the ‘boys’. Peak oil was not a problem, our problems have to do with air flow. An easily solved problem, national adoption of male leather skirts would result in a new golden age of infinite magic. Simple as that.
    It was too much for the trembling green sprouts to handle and everyone went home.
    Really
    ✍✍✍✍✍✍
    “We’re literally stuck up a cul-de-sac in a cement SUV without a fill-up” – James Howard Kunstler

  211. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 3:41 pm #

    You’re a hatchman of the New World Order!

  212. banana republican January 8, 2013 at 3:44 pm #

    Xhalor –
    I’m going on a hunch here. Is this one of your favorite 70’s songs or what???






    BR

  213. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 3:47 pm #

    Alex Jones blames the media, anti-depressants, and video games. *face palm*
    Isn’t there some kind of Godwin’s rule for interviews?

  214. k-dog January 8, 2013 at 3:47 pm #

    The trouble is, those without the stones are also those who would not stop once they started pulling the trigger.

  215. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 3:49 pm #

    I’m really surprised Jones hasn’t keeled over from a coronary yet. He seems kinda stressed these days.

  216. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 3:53 pm #

    I have no idea what that cryptic comment is supposed to mean.

  217. k-dog January 8, 2013 at 4:07 pm #

    Damn X. Somebody needs a chill pill for sure.
    Alex Jones
    We do come in all shapes and sizes. Alex definitely needs some time off but I’d pee on Piers Morgan’s leg. If he isn’t a citizen he can have a warm cup of shut the fuck up as far as I’m concerned.
    My cold dead paws.

  218. k-dog January 8, 2013 at 4:11 pm #

    You want cryptic; fear is the mind killer.
    Think about what I wrote and also think about what fear does to the higher faculties. Give a weak and timid man power and you have created a monster.

  219. xhalor January 8, 2013 at 4:13 pm #

    Ooooo…close…but no banana.
    The Gilbert O’Sullivan winner is:






  220. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 4:15 pm #

    Economist Joseph Stiglitz recently announced that he believes climate change is the most important issue facing the U.S. economy today. Certainly, climate change is serious global issue, but how exactly will it affect the U.S. economy?
    What follows are some statistics on climate change’s impact on the U.S. economy, gathered primarily from non-governmental organizations that deal with climate-change issues.
    Climate change is projected to cost the average U.S. household $1,250 per year by 2020, $1,800 per year by 2040 and $2,750 per year by 2080.
    Climate change will likely cost the U.S. economy $3.8 billion per year by 2020, $6.5 billion per year by 2040 and $12.9 billion by 2080.
    The U.S. economy may be held back by 2% of GDP over the next 20 years because of climate change.
    Failure to act on climate change already costs the world economy 1.2 trillion dollars in lost prosperity each year, according to one study.
    Lost prosperity associated with rising temperatures and carbon-related pollution could double costs to 3.2% of world GDP by 2030.
    Climate change is a leading global cause of death, responsible for an estimated 5 million deaths each year.
    From 1980 through 2011, U.S. weather disasters caused losses of $1.06 trillion.
    In 2011, the United States broke the record for the most billion-dollar weather disasters in a year.
    Due to climate change, the timber industry is expected to suffer from an increased prevalence of pests, slower growth rates for trees and more frequent wildfires, resulting in a decrease in revenue of $1 billion to $2 billion per year.
    Surprise! It’s not legal immigration we should be worried about. Nor the “debt crisis” nor the “money supply” nor inflation, nor “peak oil” … all those things pale compared to climate change.
    The big three still are:
    1) Nuclear proliferation. A nuclear winter could ruin our day.
    2) Global overpopulation. Not which side of a border you live on.
    3) Environmental degradation. That includes climate change.
    I have been consistent on these priorities on CFN for seven years.
    Nobody is paying me a salary to say we should eliminate the USA military (top polluter, top user of fossil fuel), get vasectomies, and bring CO2 back to under 350. The government is not in favor of those kinds of solutions.

  221. jonathanss. January 8, 2013 at 4:30 pm #

    Speaking on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” Tuesday, Retired Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the former commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan, said some weapons should be carried only by soldiers, not civilians.
    “I personally don’t think there’s any need for that kind (M4, M16) of weaponry on the streets and particularly around the schools in America. I believe that we’ve got to take a serious look. I understand everybody’s desire to have whatever they want, but we’ve got to protect our children, we’ve got to protect our police, we’ve got to protect our population. And I think we have to take a very mature look at that.”
    Asked what his message would be to the NRA and the House Judiciary Committee, he said, “I think we have to look at legislation. The number of people in America killed by firearms is extraordinary compared to other nations. And I don’t think we’re a bloodthirsty culture, and so I think we need to look at everything we can do to safeguard our people.”

  222. xhalor January 8, 2013 at 4:31 pm #

    What makes the gun nuts think that they actually have a chance to defend themselves against a modern police force let alone an ARMY? Anybody’s ARMY. Are we still using muskets? Unless you are prepared to engage them at THEIR level, not yours,
    …uh…yer gonna die. This is stupidly dangerous thinking for citizens. Oh wait, they’re worried about being “oppressed”. For fuck’s sake, look at what’s been done without anyone firing a shot!
    All I can think of was what happened when I was on active duty and we got tired of being bad-mouthed to our faces. Bad call. Should any of them actually manage to kill one of us…that’s gonna be a real bad day for that guy.
    We’ve discussed this on this blog before. Cops and soldiers ARE CITIZENS TOO! The thing to do is make them aware every day that they are there to serve the country, NOT THE BANKS.
    None of you are ever, ever, ever going to live in a world without wars and violence. Humans still have a long way to go before we get there. IF we get there.
    And remember, don’t let them kill you. Dead soldiers, well, they are just no damn good.

  223. jonathanss. January 8, 2013 at 4:34 pm #

    How is it that the most anti-gov’t citizens in America, and most likely 2nd Amendment supporters, are also fervent U.S. military advocates? Socialist military, I may add.

  224. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 4:39 pm #

    “If he isn’t a citizen he can have a warm cup of shut the fuck up as far as I’m concerned.”
    So much for freedom of speech.

  225. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 4:43 pm #

    Piers just thinks that the AR-15 and similar rifles shouldn’t be available to civilians. That’s his main position on this. I don’t understand what’s so controversial about this position or why people are jumping down his throat for expressing it.
    I mean, okay, Alex Jones disagrees with him. Fine. But speaking in a mock British accent, calling him a Redcoat, and saying he should be deported. That’s jumping the shark, I’d say, and he doesn’t help his position at all by being such a nutcase. And what’s with yelling like a maniac when you’re 3 feet from someone? He’s got some kind of mental disorder and needs some of those drugs he keeps lambasting.
    Really, only in America would Alex Jones be considered worthy of even being brought onto a nationally syndicated news show…

  226. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 4:51 pm #

    According to data from NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center, there were 356 all-time high temperature records set or tied in 2012, compared to four all-time low temperature records. All of the all-time record lows occurred in Hawaii. 2012 was the warmest year on record in the lower 48 states.

  227. k-dog January 8, 2013 at 4:59 pm #

    He can talk all he wants to. But I would not presume to tell a citizen of another country that their constitution needs to be changed.

  228. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 5:20 pm #

    LOL!
    It is admirable, K-Dog, that you personally would not speak, but what counts is what your taxes pay your military to do. Money talks.
    The USA just invades or bombs or sends economic hit men to a country. However it is done, the USA removes the person in power with someone more amenable. The USA has done this all over the globe, including in countries with democratically elected presidents.
    Our tax dollars pay for it. So I am all in favor of non-citizens speaking as loudly as they can to change our constitution or change our government, as long as it is only speech, and not violent acts.
    I would be very happy if non-citizens could use their speech to overturn our CIA policy of killing several people a day with drone bombs, for example.

  229. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 5:21 pm #

    Has Piers Morgan said that the 2nd amendment should be repealed? Or are you just speaking from hearsay?

  230. k-dog January 8, 2013 at 5:25 pm #

    I agree that Alex was inappropriate and his outrage while based in sincerity he exaggerates for theatrical effect. He should looses the charlatan trick. His behavior might be forgivable were he not someone who has never been in the public eye. A novice which he is not, might become overly defensive from fear that Pierce was ‘out to get him’ anyway he could. His behavior appears to be that of someone suffering from extreme intimidation which I find hard to believe considering that Alex already has a public presence.
    As for the AR-15s I don’t want to argue the point. I really don’t like guns but the scales have dropped from my eyes and I realize the best and really only one who can defend my freedom is myself. Restricting guns by model is the first step down a slippery slope that ends in tyranny. When only the state has guns then the maxim of only outlaws will have guns will have become reality. Your argument that there is no fair fight against the state has little merit. An armed society is a polite society. The second amendment gives a tyrant pause for while he may prevail his success will not be without cost.

  231. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 5:26 pm #

    If some clause in another country’s Constitution lead rather directly to thousands of unnecessary deaths every year, you’d be perfectly within presumption to mention this fact and question that section of the document. The fact is that the 2nd Amendment is archaic and causes far more trouble than it is worth. That is an American’s opinion. Am I allowed to express this or am I being too presumptuous?
    For someone from America, you don’t seem too big on freedom of speech, which is arguably a lot more fundamental than the right to possess semi-automatic rifles.
    And, BTW, Americans are constantly telling other countries how to conduct themselves, from chastizing them for lack of free speech to their religious intolerances. Methinks you’re a bit thin-skinned if you can’t take some criticisms coming the other direction, occassionally.

  232. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 5:28 pm #

    “I really don’t like guns but the scales have dropped from my eyes and I realize the best and really only one who can defend my freedom is myself. Restricting guns by model is the first step down a slippery slope that ends in tyranny. When only the state has guns then the maxim of only outlaws will have guns will have become reality. Your argument that there is no fair fight against the state has little merit. An armed society is a polite society. The second amendment gives a tyrant pause for while he may prevail his success will not be without cost.”
    Was this some kind of contest to see how many dumb gun nutter cliches you could fit in one paragraph?

  233. k-dog January 8, 2013 at 5:28 pm #

    Were he not someone who has never been in the public eye.
    Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, you know what I mean.

  234. k-dog January 8, 2013 at 5:30 pm #

    Was this some kind of contest to see how many dumb gun nutter cliches you could fit in one paragraph?
    I’ll take the complement.

  235. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 5:34 pm #

    “It no longer matters how we “feel” about immigration. As the equatorial regions of the planet become more drought stricken and uninhabitable, people will flee north and south to stay alive. Not too many places to flee southward.”
    -x-
    X, back up and think it through. Most of US population growth is due to the fact that we admit 1 million legal immigrants/year. While that level of growth is enough to lead to the death of 10’s of millions of US residents due to “collapse,” it is a TINY number compared to your fleeing hordes from “southward.”
    As environmental conditions tighten worldwide, look to US immigration rates to be reduced, certainly not increased.
    IOW, if your lifeboat is full already, and there’s a bad storm coming – – do you ever stop pulling in survivors?
    Of course you do. Eventually you have to.
    Otherwise, everyone dies – including the original, innocent occupants of the lifeboat.

  236. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 5:41 pm #

    Let’s pick apart this mass of cliches one by one, shall we?
    “I realize the best and really only one who can defend my freedom is myself.”
    This is a childish and naive viewpoint about how civilization works. Government and its institutions protect whatever positive freedoms you might enjoy in your life. That should be obvious if you actually look at how the world works. You’re not Robison Crusoe.
    “Restricting guns by model is the first step down a slippery slope that ends in tyranny.”
    Firearms are already restricted by type. You cannot purchase any fully automatic weapons legally here. And by mentioning the slippery slope, you undermine your own point, as this is generally considered a logical fallacy.
    “When only the state has guns then the maxim of only outlaws will have guns will have become reality.”
    I’m not understanding this weird sentence. Are you saying the state is made of outlaws? Or is this is the old chestnut about how if guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have guns?
    “Your argument that there is no fair fight against the state has little merit.”
    States are basically defined as having a legal monopoly on violence in a given area, so, yes, it has a lot of merit. But I didn’t make that argument today. It was someone else.
    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    This is an oft-repeated and just plain WRONG assertion. Armed societies are not the most polite, not by a long shot. To wit, would you rather take a nice walk down the street in Afghanistan or Japan? Which do you think has more firearms?
    “The second amendment gives a tyrant pause for while he may prevail his success will not be without cost.”
    This is a purely hypothetical argument at this point. What tyrant are we talking about here? Probably the closest to an American tyrant in recent memory was George Bush, but did this give him pause before he invaded Iraq on a false pretext? Hardly.
    In fact, in terms of freedoms of all kinds, America does not rank well next to most of the developed world, from economic mobility to incarceration. What good are all the guns doing us? Apparently, not a lot.
    Perhaps you could start working through some of this material logically, from first principles, rather than just parroting tired and dumb NRA cliches about freedom, liberty and tyranny, all big trigger words for people like you, apparently, which let you short circuit any kind of heavy activity in the frontal lobes that might cause your assumptions to be questioned.

  237. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 5:46 pm #

    From the UK, the revised story of the Good Samaritan. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-20944339 “Firefighters cut the roof off a woman’s undamaged car to rescue two people she gave shelter to following an accident.”
    Teasing the facts out of the article – the injuries to the two victims the woman sheltered were “not serious.”
    So this story of the Modern Good Samaritan involves only property damage. No good deed goes unpunished, after all.
    You know, as Jesus told the story of the Good Samaritan, there was simply a man doing the right thing at no risk of personal danger or death.
    Are we in the US obligated to keep accepting refugees/immigrants, even if it kills us?
    How about if it kills the ability of planet earth to support human life?
    And hold on, turk, I’m working my way to your original post – paper or plastic? ha!

  238. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 5:49 pm #

    “How about if it kills the ability of planet earth to support human life?”
    Come on. You can’t be serious with this. Severely abridging US immigration is not going to make or break the ability of the biosphere to support human life. That ball is rolling downhill of its own accord and where people are physically located on the planet barely matters.

  239. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 5:53 pm #

    I’ve missed scrapping with you, turk.
    Happy New Year!
    “Let’s pick apart this mass of cliches one by one, shall we?”
    You forgot the best cliche, too.
    When danger is just seconds away, remember –
    the police are only minutes away.
    Let’s see you deal with that one.
    Especially for those of us out in rural areas.
    And remember – this website is themed around “collapse,” of one sort or another.
    Eventually, police response times will lengthen.
    Then the police will have to stop responding to certain areas altogether.
    Although criminals will not.

  240. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 5:59 pm #

    CORRECTION
    I would be very happy if non-citizens could use their speech to overturn our CIA policy of killing several people a day with drone bombs, for example.
    I would be delighted if NON-CITIZENS could use their speech TO CHANGE OUR CONSTITUTION to make EXTRA-JUDICIAL TARGETED KILLINGS (assassinations by drone bombs) unconstitutional. It is a human rights issue and all humans should have the right to use their speech to overturn our illegal government policies.
    USA citizens are not doing such a hot job of using their freedom of speech to force such a change in murderous, illegal USA policies.
    I want ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS AND LEGAL IMMIGRANTS to speak loudly and clearly to stop murderous and illegal USA action.
    We need more immigrants. They, perhaps, have a better perspective on how USA policies are being used in their home countries. USA citizens don’t seem to give a damn, being more interested in stopping immigration than in listening to what immigrants have to teach us.

  241. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 5:59 pm #

    “When danger is just seconds away, remember –
    the police are only minutes away.”
    I think we’ve beaten this horse to a pulp in previous weeks, but quantitatively speaking, you’re causing far more danger by keeping a gun in your house, if you believe the statistics.
    Because said weapon is much more likely to be used to intimidate, harm, or murder someone beloning to said household than to deter or otherwise desist a rampaging criminal.
    That’s because the chance of home invasion into you rural household is quite rare compared with the chance of bodily injury due to suicide, assault, or murder against someone you know, using said weapon.
    That’s the conclusion one should arrive at if using logical rather than emotional arguments on this issue.
    Now, you could counter by stating that you’ll keep the guns secure, unloaded, and stored away in a safe. So now, do you think this terrible bandit will wait for you to unlock and load them before he bursts into your bedroom?
    If not, then I guess you leave them around fully loaded in desk drawers, in which case we arrive at my original conclusion.

  242. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 5:59 pm #

    “where people are physically located on the planet barely matters.” -turk-
    Bull sh*t, turk. Unless the immigrants are from the UAE or one or two other places – their TOTAL consumption of fossil fuels goes WAY up, simply because they move into the US.
    And don’t give me the argument about poor Mexican peasants – living in voluntary poverty and picking my rutabagas for me.
    No one comes to the US to live deliberately in poverty – and the children and grandchildren of immigrants certainly are as bad on the planet as the WORST of our native born population.

  243. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 6:02 pm #

    CORRECTION (before Kyoo corrects me)
    I want UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS AND LEGAL IMMIGRANTS to speak loudly and clearly to stop murderous and illegal USA action.

  244. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 6:06 pm #

    You are correct, this dead horse is flayed into small fillets. Now, I will crank the bulldozer to grind his bones to powder.
    “That’s because the chance of home invasion into you rural household is quite rare…” -turk-
    Home invasion is quite rare PRECISELY BECAUSE I and most of my neighbors are armed.
    Look to the UK if you want to see how your desired “unarmed civilian population” fares against the illegal guns, knives, and fists of criminal intent.

  245. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 6:20 pm #

    “I want UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS AND LEGAL IMMIGRANTS to speak loudly and clearly to stop murderous and illegal USA action.”
    -as ok a-
    You may as well say you WANT them to flap their arms and fly, soak..
    Within a generation, most of your immigrants will be shouting USA! USA! with the best of our Patriots.
    ====================
    So yeah, turk, and you too vlad, and probably many others.
    Population growth in the US is being deliberately engineered to keep the US politically and economically strong to benefit US elites and US military force projection.
    Meanwhile, the “best and brightest” of impoverished cultures LEAVE their cultures to benefit the US.
    It’s a great deal, and I benefit too, even though I fight against it, because – – –
    It seems quite likely that US elites, in their frantic desire to make this place keep growing, have overlooked AGW – or other likely causes of death caused by US (and others, of course, turk) overpopulation.

  246. Kyooshtik January 8, 2013 at 6:32 pm #

    CORRECTION (before Kyoo corrects me)
    I want UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS AND LEGAL IMMIGRANTS to speak loudly and clearly to stop murderous and illegal USA action.
    =================
    You STILL fucked up. Here’s how the sentence should read:
    I want UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS AND DOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS to speak loudly and clearly to stop murderous and undocumented USA action. ;o)

  247. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 6:36 pm #

    “Home invasion is quite rare PRECISELY BECAUSE I and most of my neighbors are armed.”
    I think you’d have a hard time proving this in any kind of rigorous fashion. It is far more likely that there just aren’t that many people out there who would do this in the first place, and most of them end up in jail for a long time rather early in their lives.
    Serious crimes, especially murder, are far more likely to be committed against you by people you know rather than some random criminal. So the best advice to give would be watch the company you keep.
    And, BTW, the disparity in crime levels, or the rough equivalence in certain areas, between the US and the UK has far more to do with incarceration than gun ownership. The UK only has about 75k people behind bars whereas in the US it is over two million. So rather than relaxing restrictions on private gun ownership, they’d probably do better to toughen up their sentencing of repeat offenders and serial criminals.
    Trying to prove a correlation between gun ownership and crime prevention is not likely to be conclusive, or at least it generally won’t work to your favor.
    To use your previous example, a comparison of murder rates between the US and UK shows that you are about seven times as likely to die by homicide in America. And you are about 60 times more likely to be killed with a gun. So, I see a definitive correlation there between levels of gun ownership and the homicide rate.
    The rates of assault in the UK are worse, but serious incidents where injury occurred are conflated together there where no bodily injury was caused. Thus it is difficult to make a direct comparison.
    As a counter-example, consider NYC, which has amongst (if not the) most strict gun laws in the country.
    It has the lowest per capita homicide rate of all major American cities:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9769940/New-York-murder-rate-at-lowest-rate-in-50-years.html
    And, I do admit that the per capita figures for assault, burglary, and motor vehicle theft are worse in the UK, but that probably has more to do with comparatively lax sentencing for these crimes, whereas in America you do serious time for these offenses.
    Combating crime has far more to do with law enforcement, cultural influence, and the penal system than individuals owning firearms. In other words it is a collective effort. If there were some direct correlation between gun ownership and low crime rates, it would be obviously apparent, but it isn’t. The most violence societies tend to have the most firearms. So your argument (as usual really) is a bit fallatious.

  248. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 6:40 pm #

    “So your argument (as usual really) is a bit fallatious.”
    Look, turk, let’s just beat the horse, shall we.
    No need to commit fallatio (sp?) on the damn thing.

  249. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 6:45 pm #

    And this whole idea that crime is going down in the United States because more people own guns does not actually use correct statistical data. The trend of individual household having firearms is going down, and it is now at about one in three. There are more guns over time, but that’s because people tend to own many of them.
    It is more likely that falling crime rates are connected to America’s extremely high incarcertaion rate, by far the highest in the developed world. The people responsible for the crime waves of the 80’s and 90’s are now rotting away in prison.
    The only real statistic that matters here is a comparison between the number of murders by firearm. It is many times higher in the US, as is the overall homicide rate. As for other crimes, ostensibly preventable by firearms, that is purely in the realm of the hypothetical and rhetorical as to how gun ownership has an effect or not on them.
    And, BTW, as far as I know you can have rifles and shotguns in the UK.

  250. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 6:48 pm #

    Oh, yes, and BTW proggy, lax gun laws in individual states are positively correlated with high gun crime rates there. There was a map I posted last week or the week before about this. I think that’s the more obvious causitive conclusion to arrive at given its rather obvious nature. Arizona has a high rate of firearm crimes, and its gun laws are some of the most lax in the entire country. You be the judge.

  251. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 6:55 pm #

    I know you’re not very fact-based, but go ahead and read these and tell me what you think:
    http://www.vpc.org/press/0905gundeath.htm
    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/01/the-geography-of-gun-deaths/69354/

  252. ozone January 8, 2013 at 7:07 pm #

    Dawg,
    Here’s a fine outline of how the “shit sticks”:
    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/10/cointelpro-techniques-for-dilution-misdirection-and-control-of-an-internet-forum.html
    (And, yes, saw The End of Suburbia on Netflix and charged it with 4 stars. It’ll never live it down. ;o)

  253. HenryMorgan January 8, 2013 at 7:08 pm #

    Winchester 94 is pretty much the only gun you’ll ever need. Designed by John Browning and first manufactured in Oct. 1894, in New Haven, Ct, 10 million units and nearly 120 years later it is still being manufactured, by Moruku in Japan. The .30-.30 round was the first modern small bore smokeless sporting round; it is still as good now as it was then. The walnut stock, the blued steel, the easy, light handling, the sleek profile, a perfect mix of form and function, the Winchester 94 is the finest example of Industrial Art ever produced in the United States. I have one made in 1914 and it shoots like I bought it yesterday. Its the American Gun, Everyman’s gun.
    –Panic in Year 0

  254. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 7:12 pm #

    “So your argument (as usual really) is a bit fallatious.” (as usual really)??
    – turk, ad hominem # 1-
    “I know you’re not very fact-based”
    -turk, ad hominem #2-
    Wow, turk, two ad hominems in such a short time.
    You must know you’re losing the argument.
    Plus, you ignore my humorous overtures;
    fellatio on a horse
    bones to powder with a bulldozer
    “And, I do admit that the per capita figures for assault, burglary, and motor vehicle theft are worse in the UK,….” -turk, ceding the point-
    I’ll take my chances armed, turk.
    I feel sorry for the unarmed citizens of the UK.

  255. ozone January 8, 2013 at 7:17 pm #

    Ps. My opinion is pretty well in line with Mr. Posner’s (the 1st commenter).

  256. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 7:23 pm #

    Bull sh*t, turk. Unless the immigrants are from the UAE or one or two other places – their TOTAL consumption of fossil fuels goes WAY up, simply because they move into the US.
    Let’s grant your assumption, P4C, that immigrants use as much energy as USA citizens. (though I seriously doubt it, since they don’t live alone in McMansions or have several cars).
    The average American uses 2.8 gallons of oil per day (SOURCE: CIA Factbook)
    So, if an immigrant uses 2.8 gallons a day, who pays for those 2.8 gallons ($11.20) the immigrant uses daily (accepting your assumption)? The immigrant pays, out of his pocket. That $11.20 does not come out of your pocket.
    Compare that to a USA soldier in theater of war. Each soldier consumes 22 gallons of fuel per day. (SOURCE: DoD) plus $350 per gallon to get each gallon to the soldier. (SOURCE: Office of Naval Research, USA Navy).
    Who pays for the 22 gallons (times $350 a gallon) a day ($7,700) used by the soldier? You do. You pay $7,700 a day for each soldier’s energy use, out of your pocket through the taxes you pay.
    The soldier is not picking up his own energy costs. Taxpayers are.
    The immigrant is paying his own way.
    I would say you are barking up the wrong tree, P4C.
    Immigrants’ energy use is not costing you anything. Soldiers are costing you $7,700 per day per soldier.
    BRING ALL USA SOLDIERS AND USA PRIVATE CONTRACTORS HOME FROM AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ AND THE 600 MILITARY BASES AROUND THE WORLD! NOW!

  257. ozone January 8, 2013 at 7:26 pm #

    Say Keedz!
    Afore I go, here’s a theme song for this weeks’ JHK screed:






    An Everly Bros. tune, in case you was wondrin’.
    “Some sunny day, baby;
    When everything seems okay, baby…”
    Don’t let the Black Swan shit on yo’ haid!

  258. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 7:31 pm #

    “Immigrants’ energy use is not costing you anything. Soldiers are costing you $7,700 per day per soldier.”
    -asoka..with a new GROW, GROW reasoning-
    Stop the immigration (which benefits US elites) and there is much less reason for the overseas military adventurism (which also benefits US elites).

  259. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 7:40 pm #

    with a new GROW, GROW reasoning-
    ===========
    On the contrary, going from 22 gallons a day energy use to 2.8 gallons a day energy use is CONTRACTION not growth.
    In any event, your initial assumption has not been proven. Immigrants who share an apartment and use public transit are not using anywhere near 2.8 gallons a day of fuel, compared to citizens who live in their big houses in the ‘burbs.

  260. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 7:53 pm #

    “citizens who live in their big houses in the ‘burbs.”
    -asoka..keeping the immigrants DOWN, now-
    You keep hitting the same points, soak.
    Eventually, those immigrants have children.
    Those children have children. And FINALLY, you have to admit, immigration leads to an overpopulated United States, where energy use is dangerously high – high enough to complete the destruction of planetary ecosystems, already hanging in the balance.

  261. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 7:56 pm #

    I need to amend my previous post which said you are not paying for immigrants’ energy use.
    It turns out statistics on immigrant service members on active duty
    indicate 65,000 immigrants serve in the armed forces. You are paying for those 65,000 immigrants in the armed forces.
    My point about the USA military and its wasteful use of energy still stands.
    If you bring those immigrants back home to the USA, where they belong for having served their country, their energy use automatically plummets from 22 gallons a day to 2.8 gallons a day.
    I assume you are OK with those immigrants coming home and that they belong in the USA. I further assume that you would, upon meeting one of those immigrants, say “Thank you for your service.”

  262. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 7:57 pm #

    IOW, no immigrant comes to the US to live a life of minimal energy usage and voluntary poverty – they could have just stayed home, in that case, with friends and family and their walkable communities.
    People come here to “better themselves.”
    Mostly that means making money and burning fuel.
    And sacrificing to be sure that their children AND grandchildren make even MORE money and burn even MORE fuel.
    It is the American Way.

  263. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 8:06 pm #

    “It turns out statistics on immigrant service members on active duty indicate 65,000 immigrants serve in the armed forces.”
    -circling the drain in an asoka..death..spiral-
    Now, seriously, soak –
    Wouldn’t the world be better off if those 65,000 USA service members – who happen to be immigrants – had just STAYED HOME, in the first place, and worked to make life better for their own friends and families?

  264. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 8:08 pm #

    Eventually, those immigrants have children.
    Those children have children.
    ============
    You keep hitting the same point, also, but in my favor.
    “Those children have children.” This was my argument against you having two children, which you justified as “replacement” children, i.e., ZPG.
    My argument was for NPG, no children, which is why I got a vasectomy and decided not to have any children. And that would be my argument to immigrants, also. It is irresponsible to have children. Period.
    I respect freedom of movement across borders. I respect your right, even though I disagree with it, to have children. But immigrants already exist. And they have the right to be here.
    According to F.A.I.R. (which at one time you promoted), there are 27 million immigrants in the USA. We can easily absorb 27 million more if we reduce our energy consumption, instead of growing or sustaining current levels.
    USA per capita per day: 2.8 gallons
    China per capita per day: 0.2 gallons
    I am not suggesting we reduce our consumption to Chinese levels, but at some point in the middle there is a happy medium that would allow millions more immigrants to join us at sustainable levels of consumption, without “growth” in energy use. I would like to welcome those millions more immigrants and, at the same time, work toward both citizens and immigrants adopting NPG, not ZPG.

  265. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 8:12 pm #

    Wouldn’t the world be better off if those 65,000 USA service members – who happen to be immigrants – had just STAYED HOME
    =========
    I don’t know. Would it? What proof do you have?

  266. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 8:18 pm #

    Wouldn’t the world be better off if those 65,000 USA service members – who happen to be immigrants – had just STAYED HOME
    ===========
    Would the world be “better off” (what does that mean anyway?) if your Scotch-Irish ancestors had just STAYED HOME in Europe?

  267. ront January 8, 2013 at 8:19 pm #

    What I was saying is that having laws on the books and agencies responsible for enforcement is not a waste just because some folks may still not abide by them. Same goes for locks. I use locks on doors, windows, and my bicycle. Maybe I am not as stupid as you thought, Radu.

  268. ozone January 8, 2013 at 8:20 pm #

    Uno mas, and I’m OUT. ;o)
    I guess what the “rusty hinge” is implying is that if we just “spayed and neutered” them fur’nerz prior to being admitted to ‘Murka, all would be well!
    Take it awaaaaaaaaaay, Don Pardo!

  269. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 8:24 pm #

    if we just “spayed and neutered” them fur’nerz prior to being admitted to ‘Murka, all would be well!
    ===========
    I have never suggested forced sterilization. I am saying that USA citizens should practice NPG (negative population growth=having no children), and those fur’nerz should do the same. All voluntarily.
    I do not think USA citizens should be deported for having children.
    I do not think immigrants should be denied entry or deported either.

  270. turkleton January 8, 2013 at 8:36 pm #

    The only statistics that are directly relavent to the debate are the murder rate and the associated homicide rate by gun, which are far lower in the UK. The other non-violent crimes like burglary and robbery are only related to this discussion in a peripheral way, at best. And if you want to argue that these are higher in the UK simply because they don’t have enough guns to deter criminals, that seems like a difficult conjecture to support.
    The higher rates of assault in the UK probably has more to do with better record keeping as well as far broader inclusion into this category. The US rates only include those incidents where someone was seriously injured.
    There is also a strong correlation in US states between firearm deaths and rate of ownership by household. The overall murder rates are higher there too, and the states with the lowest ownership correspondingly have much less serious gun crime levels.
    Now cue your one note samba again where you say more guns are the solution to all problems crime related. It seems to be the only tune you know in this genre.

  271. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 8:39 pm #

    At some point both citizens and immigrants need to realize the importance of global overpopulation and walk their talk.
    Limiting how many people cross an imaginary, artificial, border does nothing to reduce global population.
    The borders do not exist in reality. They are imaginary. Want proof?
    Look carefully at this NASA photo.
    http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/IMAGES/SMALL/GPN-2000-001444.jpg
    See any borders?
    Our challenges of climate change, overpopulation, nuclear proliferation, environmental degradation, etc. are global and do not respect national boundaries. The solutions cannot be national.

  272. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 8:50 pm #

    Look carefully at this NASA photo.
    http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/IMAGES/SMALL/GPN-2000-001444.jpg
    See any borders?
    -soak, wrong again-
    New Year, same as the old one, in soker..land.
    Yes, many of the borders are quite distinct.
    They are ridges at the tops of mountain ranges.
    They are major deserts.
    They are rivers – like the one between Texas and Mexico. etc. etc, etc.

  273. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 8:57 pm #

    your style, in fact, detracts from it (which I suppose is your intention, as it is with all trolls). You may have a good mind, but unfortunately, you also have a personality disorder. Please get some help
    ==============
    My style is my style. Sorry if you don’t like it. I am not here to win any popularity contest. We have serious problems to address.
    I don’t know how you define “troll,” but I reject your labeling me as such.
    Thank you for saying I have a good mind. Do you know what “personality” means? It comes from the Latin “persona” or mask. Getting rid of the mask is not a bad thing. Having a “personality disorder” is not a bad thing.
    What personality disorder are you diagnosing over the anonymous internet? What kind of help are you suggesting I get? For all you know I have finished medical school, done a residency and specialization in psychiatry, and you should be the one on the couch.
    I appreciate your kinds words and your concern. I reject your ad hominem remarks.
    There is another reason I am not popular here which has nothing to do with my “style” …
    But I will not address that, even though I have already been labeled a GUBR (global universal Black racist), since I am abstaining unilaterally from posting any more evidence on race. Race does not seem relevant to discuss on CFN, given the nature, the global nature, of the crises we face. We are all in this clusterfuck together and we will only get out of it alive if we cooperate.

  274. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 9:00 pm #

    “statistics that are directly relevant to the debate are the murder rate and the associated homicide rate by gun…”
    -turk, doubling down-
    Look, deaths by gun are higher in countries/states/cities/homes/baby cribs/wherever – that there is higher occurrence of – wait for it – GUNS.
    I’ll stipulate that, and it forms at least 50% of your “gun control argument,” here.
    Your other 50% is a convulsion of statistics and
    things that are, in your words, “…a difficult conjecture to support.”
    Well, every “difficult conjecture” I propose has a corresponding “difficult conjecture” that you will counterpropose. We need to call this a draw, and move on, turk.
    There will be some new gun control proposals.
    Some will pass.
    The violence will continue, unabated.
    The 2nd Amendment will remain.
    Sucks, all the way around, doesn’t it?

  275. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 9:06 pm #

    Yes, many of the borders are quite distinct.
    They are ridges at the tops of mountain ranges.
    They are major deserts.
    They are rivers – like the one between Texas and Mexico. etc. etc, etc.
    =============
    I didn’t see any distinct names of mountain ranges, or deserts, or rivers. Those are artificial. Assigned by humans.
    But you do bring up an interesting point. The so-called river boundary between Texas and Mexico is not a border. It has been crossed by millions of human beings without documents since the USA took the land from them at gunpoint.
    And they are now happy to be back in their land. Nobody is going to remove them. Not racist F.A.I.R., not racist NumbersUSA, not any anti-immigrant or white separatist group. They are here to stay. Deal with reality.
    No limits will be placed on legal immigration either. It goes against what it means to be an American. And, for most of us, that is an important fact, though you denigrate the majority of Americans by calling it a “moral platitude.”

  276. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 9:09 pm #

    There will be some new gun control proposals.
    Some will pass.
    The violence will continue, unabated.
    The 2nd Amendment will remain.
    ================
    Now we are getting somewhere. To paraphrase you:
    There will be some new immigration reform proposals.
    Some will pass.
    Immigration will continue, unabated.
    The 27 million recent immigrants will remain (and the older immigrants, too, including your Scotch-Irish family).

  277. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 9:14 pm #

    “….a happy medium that would allow millions more immigrants to join us at sustainable levels of consumption, without “growth” in energy use.”
    -asoka..the utopian-
    You believe this. That’s your right.
    I believe the exact opposite. That’s my right.
    If you’re right, we can look forward to higher prices, diminishing freedoms, and a descent to third world living – except with a uniquely negative United States patina on our third world living.
    If I’m right, civilization ends or humanity dies – within the next few generations, and the growing US population is somewhat responsible, for a variety of reason.
    ==================
    And these UTOPIAN assumptions of yours, are also why you are able to create so much static and be such an effective Resident Impediment on this website, devoted to “peak everything.”
    whatever, sokerhose.
    troll on.
    at least you haven’t implied that those who oppose your ideas are “racist,” in oh, the past 12 hours or so.
    but you will.
    give it time.

  278. budizwiser January 8, 2013 at 9:15 pm #

    The people running the show have insulated themselves and their families from most of the subject matter posted here and deemed “anti American” each respective rant racist……
    However discussing the Fed, tracking the paths of influence among the rich and our leaders or trying to muse about plausible resulting sociological-economic catastrophes is just too complicated.
    Men in white shirts, wearing expensive suits have done more to damage the American way of life more than all the aspects of the childish racially motivated rantings posted here.
    It does seem rather queer that JK writes so eloquently – yet the BLOG fills with posts devoid of critical thought.

  279. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 9:17 pm #

    “…racist F.A.I.R., not racist NumbersUSA, not any anti-immigrant or white separatist group.”
    -asoka..the racist, rides again-
    That didn’t take long.

  280. Soul Pucker January 8, 2013 at 9:28 pm #

    Disarming the citizenry of their guns would represent a huge transfer of power from the people to the government.
    Even the Black Power movement and the Black Panthers saw the need to arm themselves to fight the H..onke y.

  281. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 9:28 pm #

    “It does seem rather queer that JK writes so eloquently – yet the BLOG fills with posts devoid of critical thought.” -bud-
    That has amazed me, too, bud.
    For nigh onto 3 years now.
    Ozone says the same thing.
    So do many others.
    If I’m reading you right – all we have to do is ignore asoka..and all will be right in CFN land.
    sort of. ;0(
    Of course, that’s impossible – as this thread is presently constituted.
    So we can call him “it,” per ozone.
    Or call him the Resident Impediment, per me.
    Or just shun him. He likes that.
    Post a new thought bud, someone will respond besides the Resident Impediment.
    eventually.
    you may have to post it a COUPLE of times.
    like my new idea of reducing immigration. ;0)

  282. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 9:31 pm #

    Damn, budizwiser! If a post is not about excess discretionary energy consumption, then it doesn’t pass your test of containing “critical thought”
    Actually, we have bigger fish to fry:
    The big three global issues still are:
    1) Nuclear proliferation.
    2) Global overpopulation.
    3) Environmental degradation.

    I have been consistently addressing these priorities on CFN for seven years.
    Far too much weight is given to “critical thought”
    The people who got us into this clusterfuck were the “best and the brightest” who were all trained in “critical thought”

  283. Soul Pucker January 8, 2013 at 9:34 pm #

    Speaking of immigration, does the U.S. Department of Immigration and Citizenship now recognize “gay marriage” and permit the “partners” of homosexual permanent residence visa applicants to also apply for permanent residence as “spouses”? Thanks.






  284. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 9:40 pm #

    It is time to tell the truth about nuclear weapons. They are not a deterrent to terrorists, whom security experts regard as the greatest danger to our nation. They do not deter attacks from other nations, because very few want to attack us, and our overwhelming conventional forces are more than enough for our defense.
    What nuclear weapons actually do is cost us a great deal of money. Just to maintain the warheads will cost us $7.6 billion next year and $2.5 billion more to prevent proliferation. As we trim our federal budget other urgently needed programs will be cut, while nuclear weapons funds are defended in the name of National Security and for the benefit of senators and representatives who have facilities in their districts. Some Congress people hope to spend at least $100 billion in the next decade on “modernizing” the planes, missiles and submarines that are ready to deliver the warheads to an unidentified “enemy.”
    Nuclear weapons are completely indiscriminate. They incinerate adults, children and pets in the target area without regard for innocence or guilt. The radioactive fallout drifts for miles on the shifting winds and all scientific studies done since Chernobyl and now Fukushima acknowledge that, even though mortality figures differ.
    Even the Pentagon acknowledges that a relatively “limited” nuclear war would create so much radioactive soot that it would drift around the earth for years, blocking the sun and reducing crop yields, thus causing widespread famine. At the same time, the great heat of a nuclear fireball and the following firestorm carries radioactive materials into the stratosphere, where they fatally weaken the ozone layer, causing blindness, skin cancer, and damaged immune systems. It would also destroy aquatic ecosystems, resulting in reduced ocean productivity for years.
    For those who are concerned that a nation might try to cheat a Nuclear Weapons Convention, a world system of sensors is now in place. While it is almost impossible to produce a nuclear weapon without testing, this worldwide system will make any nuclear weapons test immediately known to all.
    The generals and admirals, the senators and representatives, the nuclear laboratories and plants, believe that they are defending America. Their experts can calculate the kilotons and megatons of explosive power in each of the weapons systems. But they do not represent the human future, or the millions who would disappear instantly in the fireball or slowly succumb to radiation disease. It is up to people of conscience to make their voices heard. It is up to mothers and grandmothers to say that it is intolerable and criminal that more than 20 years after the end of the Cold War, Russia and the United States still have more than 3,300 warheads targeted on each other and thousands more that can quickly be brought back and deployed.
    SOURCE

  285. Soul Pucker January 8, 2013 at 9:41 pm #

    This is why you may need to buy a gun.

    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

  286. progress4conserving January 8, 2013 at 9:46 pm #

    1) Nuclear proliferation.
    Justified by a populous United States as growing population lets us keep throwing our weight around the globe.
    2) Global overpopulation.
    Exacerbated by a populous United States, as other regions export their own overpopulation issues.
    3) Environmental degradation.
    DRASTICALLY exacerbated by a populous US.
    Stop incoming immigration.
    Problems solved.
    I’ll admit #1 is a little weak, but somewhat valid.
    #2 and #3 are incontrovertible, however.

  287. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 10:13 pm #

    ACTION FOR NUCLEAR DISARMAMENT
    Those of you in the pacific northwest might be interested in an action to be held Saturday Jan. 19, 2013 at Ground Zero Center (Poulsbo, WA, culminating in a Vigil & Action at the Bangor Trident nuclear submarine base.
    Registration (coffee, tea and snacks will be available) begins at 8:30 am. The program begins at 9:30 am with introduction, orientation, video and discussion about Martin Luther King and action planning for the afternoon. A vigil and nonviolent direct action will take place at the nearby Bangor Trident submarine base in the early afternoon. We will return to the meeting house at 3:00pm.
    “If we are to have peace on earth, our loyalties must become
    ecumenical rather than sectional. Our loyalties must transcend our
    race, our tribe, our class, and our nation; and this means we must
    develop a world perspective.” (Martin Luther King Jr.)

  288. Kyooshtik January 8, 2013 at 10:16 pm #

    I’m thinkin of gettin me one of them cool lookin Glocks with multi round clips to tote around with me just in case anyone pisses me off. Always wanted to say ‘you talkin to ME?’

  289. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 10:19 pm #

    2) Global overpopulation.
    Exacerbated by a populous United States, as other regions export their own overpopulation issues.
    ================
    Do you know the meaning of “exacerbate”?
    Global overpopulation is not changed one iota if another nation “exports” their own “overpopulation issues.”
    Moving people one point A to point B does NOT change the total number of people in the world.
    This is incontrovertible: USA immigration policy is irrelevant to global overpopulation. How many people are legally allowed into the USA in no way affects how many people inhabit the Earth.
    Look carefully at this NASA photo.
    http://GRIN.HQ.NASA.GOV/IMAGES/SMALL/GPN-2000-001444.JPG
    See any borders?

  290. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 10:22 pm #

    Look carefully at this NASA photo.
    http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/IMAGES/SMALL/GPN-2000-001444.jpg
    See any named borders?

  291. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 10:25 pm #

    Stop incoming immigration.
    Problems solved.
    ============
    So, immigrants who want to live in the United States are the source of problems in the United States? Is that what you are saying? Have immigrants (including your Scotch-Irish family immigrants) contributed to the USA?

  292. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 10:28 pm #

    I’ll admit #1 is a little weak
    ==========
    They are all anti-immigration and therefore, anti-American. You may call that a moral platitude. The USA is and always will be a nation that welcomes immigrants.
    NumbersUSA has 1.3 million members? You have a NUMBER on how many are white?

  293. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 10:35 pm #

    3) Environmental degradation.
    DRASTICALLY exacerbated by a populous US.
    Stop incoming immigration.
    Problems solved.
    ==============
    So, global environmental degradation is exacerbated by a populous USA? Stop incoming immigration and China and Russia and all the other countries will not degrade the environment as much? Stopping immigration into the USA will have a negligible effect on global conditions.
    Do you have any data indicating otherwise?
    Environmental degradation is not a national problem and setting a national immigration policy is not a solution.

  294. The Resident Impediment January 8, 2013 at 10:47 pm #

    Do you know the meaning of “exacerbate”?
    make worse.
    Global overpopulation is not changed one iota if another nation “exports” their own “overpopulation issues.”
    except that the “exporting” nation is then less “overpopulated” and its residents can then continue to reproduce to replace those they lost to emigration
    ==================
    Look carefully at this NASA photo.
    http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/IMAGES/SMALL/GPN-2000-001444.jpg
    See any named borders?
    other than rivers, deserts, and mountain ranges?
    ===================
    Have immigrants contributed to GROWTH IN the USA?
    We are all about GROWTH in the USA!

  295. Soul Pucker January 8, 2013 at 10:49 pm #

    I didn’t get any f…ck’n candy!!!!!
    “North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un has reportedly sent one kilogram of sweets to every child to mark his birthday, carrying on a tradition instigated by his grandfather.
    A radio report by the North Korean Central Broadcasting Station, monitored in Seoul, said Mr Kim mobilised aircraft to ensure that each child in the country aged 10 or under received the candy gift in time.
    Villagers in outlying islands “exploded with joy” at the confectionery airlift, the report said.”

  296. Soul Pucker January 8, 2013 at 10:51 pm #

    I’ve noticed that despite my attempts to be jovial and have a sense-of-humor on this otherwise generally morbid Collapse Blog that it appears that some people would like to kill me.

  297. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 10:52 pm #

    Weak. You have no argument.
    Worse [pun intended], you can do nothing to stop people from living where they want to live and leaving where they want to leave.
    It’s called FREEDOM.

  298. The Racist Impediment January 8, 2013 at 10:52 pm #

    NumbersUSA has 1.3 million members? You have a NUMBER on how many are white?

  299. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 10:59 pm #

    Young people are putting off major life decisions like marriage, having kids and buying a house because so many of them have become unemployed or financially insecure. This has major long-term repercussions for the economy.
    For example, there now will be fewer people to buy goods and services and make a productive contribution to society. The birth rate has plunged and is projected to hit a 25-year low this year. If it weren’t for immigration, the U.S. population would be shrinking.
    The birth rate has plunged! Yes! That’s what I’m talkin’ about.
    Viva La Raza!
    Viva La Reconquista!

  300. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 11:00 pm #

    Now numbers are racist?
    Weak.

  301. The Racist Impediment January 8, 2013 at 11:12 pm #

    “Viva La Raza!”
    -as ok a-
    Translation into English:
    “Long Live the Race”
    sarcasm on
    Yep, our soaker hose manifests no racism at all.
    sarcasm off

  302. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 11:16 pm #

    HOW MANY MEXICAN IMMIGRANTS? ZERO!
    The largest wave of immigration in history from a single country to the United States has come to a standstill. After four decades that brought 12 million current immigrants—most of whom came illegally—the net migration flow from Mexico to the United States has stopped and may have reversed, according to a new analysis of government data from both countries by the Pew Hispanic Center, a project of the Pew Research Center.
    Immigration has stopped. Have our problems gone away?

  303. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 11:22 pm #

    Dear Resident Impediment,
    You should do some research on “La Raza”
    It has a history and refers to the cosmic race, an agglomeration of all the races in the world with no respect to color.
    Published in 1925, La Raza Cósmica (The Cosmic Race) is an essay written by late Mexican philosopher, secretary of education, and 1929 presidential candidate, José Vasconcelos

  304. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 11:30 pm #

    DEPT. OF HOMELAND SECURITY (It’s Bush’s fault)
    H1B . . . . . . . . Workers in specialty occupations
    H1B1 . . . . . . . Chile and Singapore Free Trade Agreement aliens
    H1C . . . . . . . . Registered nurses participating in the Nursing Relief for Disadvantaged Areas
    H2A . . . . . . . . Seasonal agricultural workers
    H2B . . . . . . . . Seasonal nonagricultural workers
    H2R . . . . . . . . Returning H2B workers
    H3 . . . . . . . . . Trainees
    H4 . . . . . . . . . Spouses and children of H1, H2, or H3
    O1 . . . . . . . . . Workers with extraordinary ability or achievement
    O2 . . . . . . . . . Workers accompanying and assisting in performance of O1 workers
    O3 . . . . . . . . . Spouses and children of O1 and O2
    P1 . . . . . . . . . . Internationally recognized athletes or entertainers
    P2 . . . . . . . . . . Artists or entertainers in reciprocal exchange programs
    P3 . . . . . . . . . . Artists or entertainers in culturally unique programs
    P4 . . . . . . . . . . Spouses and children of P1, P2, or P3
    Q1 . . . . . . . . . Workers in international cultural exchange programs
    R1 . . . . . . . . . Workers in religious occupations
    R2 . . . . . . . . . Spouses and children of R1
    TN . . . . . . . . . . North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) professional workers
    TD . . . . . . . . . . Spouses and children of TN
    Welcome all!

  305. asoka.. January 8, 2013 at 11:49 pm #

    IMMIGRATION POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS (CATO INSTITUTE)
    Congress should:
    ? expand current legal immigration quotas, especially for
    employment-based visas;
    ? repeal the arbitrary and restrictive cap on H1-B visas for highly
    skilled workers;
    ? create a temporary worker program for lower-skilled workers
    to meet long-term labor demand and reduce incentives for
    illegal immigration
    Critics complain about today’s ‘‘mass immigration,’’ but when compared with the current U.S. population of more than 300 million, today’s immigration numbers are well within the norms of U.S. history. Since 2000, the United States has admitted an average of 1 million legal immigrants per year, or an immigration rate of 3.5 per year per 1,000 U.S. residents. That rate compares with an immigration rate of 9.4 to 10.5 in previous peak decades.
    In fact, the current legal immigration rate is lower than that of any decade between 1830 and 1930.
    YIKES! THE IMMIGRATION RATE IS DECREASING!
    But posters who cowardly hide behind handles like “Resident Impediment” and “Racist Impediment” do not know the facts.
    Hmm, that could explain their cowardice.

  306. The Cowardly Impediment January 8, 2013 at 11:57 pm #

    “But posters who cowardly hide behind handles like “Resident Impediment” and “Racist Impediment” do not know the facts.”
    so, total numbers and rates of change mean EXACTLY the same thing, then!
    amazing.

  307. Mike Hunt January 9, 2013 at 12:02 am #

    Dude…
    Are you on drugs? 32 posts today. Get a hobby. Get a life. Why aren’t you out with your hundreds of Muslim friends. Sorry, I forgot. All your Muslim friends are back in New Mexico. Meditate more, post less. Good advice, if only you would heed it.
    Mike

  308. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 12:07 am #

    May the best worker get the job. Eliminate quotas and go by merit. No affirmative action for citizens.
    Over 50% of legal immigrants are Asian. White Americans should compete on a level playing field instead of limiting immigration by use of quotas.
    What is best for the country is to have the best minds working in the USA no matter where they come from.
    People should be judged on the content of their character, not on whether or not they are citizens.
    Yes, those who lack character or intelligence and cannot compete are bound to complain and whine. But the country deserves the free market approach to insure the cream of the world’s intellectual crop is working to make the USA stronger. If the best are Scotch-Irish, so be it. But no favoritism should be shown based on race or legal status.

  309. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 12:09 am #

    Dude… like why do you care? It’s my life. Live and let live.
    You have the ability to scroll… use it.

  310. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 12:13 am #

    Dear Cowardly Impediment,
    Three handles in the space of an hour. I am impressed.
    And you are encouraging me to post more, which I am sure ingratiates you with others on CFN.
    But you are not posting facts. You are not citing sources. We cannot have a discussion if you only rely on your personal racist bias.

  311. Mike Hunt January 9, 2013 at 12:16 am #

    Here you go, Soake. Practice your Spanish. And then you can go out and make some friends there in Ecuador. Then again, maybe not…






  312. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 12:21 am #

    Mike,
    I am operating with an effective modem rate of 28kbits and most of the time below 28, which means no videos. I have lots of time to meditate while waiting for pages to load.
    I have lots of friends and I have a life. Thanks for your concern.

  313. Kyooshtik January 9, 2013 at 12:28 am #

    Do you know the meaning of “exacerbate”?
    ============
    I sure do.
    When I was 17 I used to exacerbate a couple times a day but now that I’m 72 my exacerbation count is way off.

  314. Mike Hunt January 9, 2013 at 12:29 am #

    You don’t exactly have a reputation here for integrity, but prove me wrong! Get out there and have fun with your friends. Get off the internet!
    Enjoy the youtube when you can. You won’t be disappointed.
    36 posts today. Wow!!

  315. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 12:33 am #

    CORRECTION
    Reputation? Like I care. I am not here to make friends.
    I have lots of friends and I have a life. Thanks for your concern.
    Ya tengo fluidez con el castellano, así que despreocúpate. He publicado en español en revistas profesionales. He publicado un libro en español. Favor no preocuparte por mi. Estoy muy bien, aunque vermonter piensa que yo debo buscar “ayuda” pero nunca explicó que tipo de ayuda. ¿Desorden de personalidad? Pues, con todo respeto (no estoy hablando de ti) creo que hay otros que merecen tal ayuda más que yo.
    By the way, if you attempt to translate this with a machine translator like Google, it will come out butchered. Translators cannot yet produce an adequate translation, even when the original is grammatically correct, and especially not when any kind of slang is used.

  316. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 12:35 am #

    38 posts now, Mike.
    Why are you wasting time counting my posts. Don’t you have anything better to do? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
    :)

  317. The Racist Impediment January 9, 2013 at 12:39 am #

    “rely on your personal racist bias.”
    -asoka..the racist impediment-
    ————–
    And you, K/Q, are now the Master Exacerbator.
    congrats!
    I think I’ll quit, for a little while.
    err…posting, not exacerbating.

  318. Lucky 13 January 9, 2013 at 1:33 am #

    I am wondering if Asoka is paid to troll here.

  319. Lucky 13 January 9, 2013 at 1:35 am #

    G has been moving toward this for 2 decades, Id
    guess.

  320. Tendril January 9, 2013 at 2:34 am #

    Anyone concerned about secessionists, please sign the petition here:
    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/proclaim-united-states-america-love-it-or-leave-it-support-emigration-reform/LC4fH0wc

  321. HenryMorgan January 9, 2013 at 7:48 am #

    “Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabron and ching’ tu madre! Come out of that shithole of yours. I have to speak to you.”
    A little Spanish Lingo, there, from ‘The Treasure of the Sierra Madre’

  322. BeingThere January 9, 2013 at 8:35 am #

    All the world’s a gunshow and all the men and women merely shooters (and the shot)
    Yes, yesterday I heard a conservative saying (seriously) that had the principal at Sandy Hook had a gun, things would have turned out differently.
    How so? If he had an assault rifle and she came running out with a handgun, wouldn’t she have been riddled with holes in 20 seconds?
    Or is the scenario more like this. Everyone who wants to teach young children has to go through military training at a boot camp.
    Yes, our children should be used to living in an armed camp. I guess that’s somebody’s idea of the future.
    Ain’t it Utopia.

  323. ozone January 9, 2013 at 8:38 am #

    Wow!
    The translation came out perfectly! ;o)

  324. BeingThere January 9, 2013 at 8:41 am #

    Hey, did you hear the one about AIG considering suing the people of the United States for losses to their shareholders?
    Yesterday I saw a commercial by AIG thanking the people for TARP and oh, how wonderful everything is now that they’ve paid us back—(get ready for round 2)
    The comedy never stops in banksterland.
    Yes, the fact that an insurance entity had nothing to back their losses has nothing to do with anything. It’s all our fault that the govt gave and expected to get repaid.
    —Oh and how about all the arrests and frog marching to jail of all the fraudsters and gamers of the system, you know the ones who screwed their clients?
    (I hear the sound of crickets) that’s why they’re so brazen.
    We’ve created a monster–thought we didn’t negotiate with terrorists.

  325. ozone January 9, 2013 at 8:55 am #

    Although I’m triskaidekaphobic, I feel it falls upon me to try to answer your trenchant query.
    Check out the following quote that it spewed recently:
    “Yes, those who lack character or intelligence and cannot compete are bound to complain and whine. But the country deserves the free market approach to insure the cream of the world’s intellectual crop is working to make the USA stronger.”
    This is exactly the kind of ANTI-economic, jingoistic, 1%-generated, “free-market” propaganda bullshit and claptrap one could most certainly expect from a paid troll.
    So, my considered guess would be: yep.
    ….Or perhaps it’s simply suffering from mud-hut fever, and fears to leave its’ keyboard comfort-zone in its’ shithole; even though the locals would fain speak to it for a moment.

  326. ozone January 9, 2013 at 9:10 am #

    I’d say that the takeover of the world’s [laughably termed] “economic system” by a cadre of psychopaths is to be expected as the upshot of rewarding the wrong “values”. (And I mean, DANGEROUSLY wrong.)
    Matt gives us a peek through the keyhole:
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33571.htm

  327. ozone January 9, 2013 at 9:20 am #

    “…Mr Kim mobilised aircraft to ensure that each child in the country aged 10 or under received the candy gift in time.
    Villagers in outlying islands “exploded with joy” at the confectionery airlift, the report said.”
    -SP
    That’s what happens when you hand the kiddies those industrial strength, Norf’ Korean Pop-Rocks[tm]! “Holy shit; ‘blowed that tykes’ head clean OFF!”
    …And, no worries, I enjoy your quirky non sequiturs quite a bit. :o)

  328. BeingThere January 9, 2013 at 9:40 am #

    Thanks, O
    Good one. Check out oftwominds.com.
    See how the lower value of the dollar works for the globalist CEO’s. They can never lose.
    But as the Milton Friedman acolytes will tell you, if you’re not a winner in this rigged game–its all your fault.

  329. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 9:44 am #

    SOLUTIONS TO GLOBAL OVERPOPULATION
    Education
    Sectors of the society deprived of education contribute more to overpopulation. A lack of education, coupled with poverty, gives rise to a simple theorem in impoverished classes: “More hands, more money”. Education and empowerment of women is fundamental to solving global overpopulation. Which brings us to family planning.
    Family Planning
    Often, misconceptions about the surgical processes related to family planning discourage the masses, especially the male contingent, from practicing it. Many governments now sponsor family planning programs and clinics, a move that needs to be replicated all over the world.
    Tax Concessions
    An effective method of controlling birth rates is making provisions in taxation that favor families with no children. Tax benefits could also be provided for couples who choose to adopt rather than procreate. China, notably, has put in place tax structures favoring smaller families and Chinese statistics suggest that this system does, indeed, work.
    Sex Education
    Sex education needs to be a mandatory subject in schools to avoid sexually active teenagers unaware about contraceptives and embarrassed to seek information about the same. Hence, it is important that we shed the jaded inhibitions and the facade of morality for the greater good.
    The key here is education. Educated people who are aware of the threats posed by overpopulation can voluntarily and actively act to reduce global overpopulation.

  330. HenryMorgan January 9, 2013 at 9:46 am #

    I’d like to get a look at a piece of that NKorean Candy.
    Remember back in the day ‘Atomic Fireballs’? Big, red and round, they were a penny apiece and had a picture of a Nuclear Blast on the package. Damned things were hot, too, at least initially. Cool that fire off with an iced cold coke! If those Korean Kids were getting Atomic Fireballs, well then, they were in for a real treat!
    Is the famine still raging in NKorea?
    –Panic in Year Zero

  331. ozone January 9, 2013 at 9:48 am #

    Ah, yes!
    Evil servant of da deb’bil, Unka Milty F.
    Many of those who worship at his altar of Hokum & Bunkum have done quite well for themselves, I must say. (Not so much for the rest of us, however.)
    I’ll check out Meester Smeeth’s weblog, thanks.

  332. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 9:48 am #

    Strunk and White: “Omit unnecessary words.”
    Let me try that last sentence again:
    The key is education. Educated people, who are aware of the threats, can voluntarily act to reduce global overpopulation.

  333. HenryMorgan January 9, 2013 at 9:52 am #

    Asoka you are so full of shit your eyes must be brown.
    And I say that with Love, Brother.
    Yes, Love! Because unlike some others here I rather enjoy your provocations. Its what keeps me coming back!
    HM

  334. ozone January 9, 2013 at 9:59 am #

    “Is the famine still raging in NKorea?”
    Hmmm, couldn’t tell you; we don’t hear too much about them, do we?
    Do not despair! Atomic Fireballs can yet be had; woo-hoo!
    http://www.oldtimecandy.com/atomic-fire-balls.htm
    C’mon, indulge; I know you want to… :o)
    *************************************
    *************************************

  335. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 10:06 am #

    What is your definition of a troll.
    I have one, and only one, handle. Does that fit troll behavior?
    My posts are mostly concise, well thought-out, and mostly related to the subject of clusterfuck. Are trolls concerned with being concise?
    I do not engage in ad hominem attack, even though a lot is directed at me. Does that fit troll behavior?
    My positions are pro-disarmament, pro-vasectomy, and pro-environment. Does that qualify me as a troll? Would the government or anyone else pay me a salary to say things like “Eliminate the military”? What are you smoking?
    You guys throw out the word “troll” easily, but you never specify what it means.
    We are at 334 comments. About 40 are mine. Does a 12% contribution rate qualify one as a troll?
    Is quantity what you are concerned about?
    Si es así no puedo decir más que: “Sufre”
    LOL!
    You guys must not have a life if you are concerned with how much Asoka is posting on CFN. Are you the CFN police? LOL!

  336. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 10:11 am #

    My eyes are brown!
    I feel your love, brother.
    And I am happy for no reason … and also happy to know that my bullshit posts… I mean erudite posts… keep you coming back for more.
    Love is the answer.
    Now, what was the question?

  337. ront January 9, 2013 at 10:54 am #

    Two wise letters (IMO) to the San Francisco Chronicle this morning:
    Focus on warming’s causes
    The story about seeding clouds with salt crystals as a way of reversing global warming (“Looking to skies for help,” Jan. 6) is alarming and reminded me of a story about a co-worker who was driving along in his truck when the cab filled up with smoke. Alertly, he pulled into the nearest drugstore and purchased some eye drops. This enabled him to keep driving until the engine of his truck burst into flames.
    Leaving aside the issue of possible unintended consequences, we will not be able to reverse global warming by addressing the symptoms. Only by addressing the underlying causes, the excessive burning of fossil fuels and CO{-2} emissions, will we be able to deal with this looming catastrophe. This assumes, of course, that it’s not already too late.
    Timothy Salz, Mill Valley
    Don’t mess with nature
    Regarding the article on the research of Armand Neukermans, we cannot, as IBM states in its latest ad campaign, “Build a smarter planet.”
    Just as the pharmaceutical companies treat every side effect of medication with another medication, are we still so arrogant after this year’s superstorm, Sandy, to think that we can meddle with the environment by “fixing” the problem with more meddling?
    Neukermans states that his research, if successful should be employed only as a last resort.
    Wouldn’t it be better to use all that expertise, money and intelligence to find ways to minimize our footprint rather than trying to alter a system of which we have little knowledge?
    I also find it egregious that clinical trials would be dependent upon consultations with the “stakeholders.” Who are these stakeholders?
    It seems to me that each and every living creature on this planet are the real stakeholders here and should have more of a say than a bunch of investors.
    I believe that the planet is a lot smarter than we are and that, when it gets right down to it, if we do not throw or resources into shrinking our foot print, the planet will simply kick our asses out into space and recover just fine without us.
    Jim McDannold, Fort Bragg

  338. ront January 9, 2013 at 10:55 am #

    And this fellow’s weekly column is strong, too:
    It’s true, isn’t it? Moderation is a joke. Moderation is un-American. Moderation in any healthy, compassionate sense in this year of our extremely hot and imminently riotous 2013 is nothing short of a goddamn modern miracle.
    Don’t you think? Have you noticed? No one believes in it anymore. Fewer still actually practice it. Anyone on any side of a given debate or social issue shun it like it reality TV shuns good taste.
    Even the planet itself agrees: Extremism is in. Extremism is the new black, which is also the new blood red, which is also the new, merciless way to deny anything bad or dangerous might be happening as a direct result of our unchecked growth or God-drunk ideology. for more:
    http://blog.sfgate.com/morford/2013/01/08/moderation-is-for-hippies/

  339. Soul Pucker January 9, 2013 at 11:55 am #

    I just got off the phone with the IRS. The IRS keeps sending me tax bills even though I’ve already paid my tax bill, twice. That’s right: I’ve paid the same tax bill, not once, but twice. The IRS fucked up by sending me a refund check for the amount that I paid them and so I eventually had to send the IRS a second check for the same amount. In fact, the second check was in the amount that the IRS representative told me to send to the IRS to clear my account. Now, the IRS is threatening to seize my property unless I pay interest and penalties on interest on the amount due for the time period between the 2 checks.
    The IRS representive said that there’s nothing she can do and that she’s “just a number.” (I’m not kidding. She really said that.) She advised me to call “Taxpayers’ Advocates”. I asked her if I could contest it in court. She said “yes” provided that I fly half-way around the world to show up in court in Washington, DC.
    They’e all f’..ck’n LUNATICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I don’t know on what rational basis that you blokes think that the federal government can even remotely solve our problems rather than make them hopelessly worse?

  340. Soul Pucker January 9, 2013 at 11:59 am #

    The IRS representive said that there’s nothing she can do and that she’s “just a number.”
    That’s what they give you in prison, or in a camp…a number….
    Fuck’n Hell!!!!!!

  341. Rhino January 9, 2013 at 1:12 pm #

    Isn’t race an artificial construct?
    ==========
    Yes, and so are nations, borders, and “immigrants”
    Very good observation, P4C. – Assoka
    This probably ranks in the top five most boneheaded comments posted by College Boy on this site.
    Ideology and especially racist ideology is a refuge for idiots. So I’m going to make this real simple so that even an idiot poster of racist commentary might get a clue.
    A young member of our clan is living in one of the central Asian ‘stans. He’s working there on a development project funded by a charitable organization based in south-central Asia. His description of the people living there is and I quote: ‘imagine Russians and Chinese marrying and having kids” unquote.
    “Race” as a concept is rejected by some people on political and ethical grounds. Some people reject “race” on scientific grounds. Many people adhere to the idea of “race”, some for good reasons. Good reasons? Sure, they may see identifiable genetic groupings and differentiation.
    And some will support the idea of “race” for bad reasons. Bad reasons? Sure, we’ve all seen these people. The notion of race gets them out of bed in the morning. They are haters, they love to hate, inciting hate and murder gives them a reason to live. Such people want to see the world burn.
    So what’s the point of the anecdote about the people of the ‘stan? To illustrate the idea of “cline” ie genetic gradations – in a very simple way that even an idiot racist ideologue might comprehend. More valid in the opinion of many than the concept of “race”.
    So College Boy pretends to concede that “race” is an artificial construct and then triumphantly asserts, as if one necessarily follows from the other, that so are nations and borders and immigrants. Take that P4C.
    I would urge College Boy to try to cross the border – without required documentation – between Iraq and Iran to test the veracity of his assertion about this artificiality. Or the border from South Korea to North Korea or that from Gaza to Israel.
    Borders are artificial? I suspect that College Boy would find very quickly that the armed soldiers that guard these borders are not artificial, neither are the bullets in their rifles and neither are orders to arrest or gun down smartypants that refuse to respect those same borders or that claim the border is “artificial”. College Boy will learn that the people living within those boundaries and that enforce those boundaries are very real and dead serious about maintaining them.
    Maybe College Boy could hop on an airflight to Serbia or Russia or Japan or China and tell the folks there about their artificiality. Or to a Catholic zone of Northern Ireland. Or to a Protestant zone. Or go into a tavern in French speaking Quebec and mouth off there. Let’s see if College Boy hangs onto his teeth.
    You see, College Boy’s attitude is based in disrespect. Not surprising really given his tireless shilling for the One Percent. The One Percent just want to do what they want to do unfettered and unbound by nuisances like laws or customs or national borders. The common thread that unites One Percenters is their contempt for other people. Remember Mitt’s 47% comments?
    Talking about artificiality, given College Boy’s relentless racist screeds who can doubt that his concession – that race is an artificial construct – is artificial too.

  342. Radu Voda January 9, 2013 at 1:41 pm #

    Yes some people are more White than others. The Portuguese imported large numbers of Black slaves into Portugal. They were freed and blended in. So they aren’t White anymore except in the upper class. Likewise, most of Southern Europe has been dumbed down thru African and Arab genes. One would expect them to be dumber than Northern Europe and they are. One would expect them to be less prosperous and they are.

  343. Kyooshtik January 9, 2013 at 1:45 pm #

    The IRS representive said that there’s nothing she can do and that she’s “just a number.” (I’m not kidding. She really said that.)
    =============
    ^This^ is the nature of large organizations. They lose all common sense. This is one reason I detest “Big Government.”
    P.S. It’s representative

  344. Radu Voda January 9, 2013 at 1:47 pm #

    You really are uninformed and only know what the MSM tells you on this issue. You don’t believe the media when it comes to politics and finance but you do when it comes to guns. Fascinating.
    People save their own lives and the lives of others all the time with guns. The media just doesn’t talk about it.
    You don’t trust the Goverment yet you want the Goverment to have all the power (guns). Remember Comrade Mao said power comes from the Gun and the People must never lose their grip on it. Of course by “the People” he meant the Goverment whereas by “the People” we mean the People.

  345. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 1:49 pm #

    Call the office of your congressional representative. Explain the situation to the staffer who answers the phone. They have been known to rescue citizens (voters) from the clutches of irrational bureaucracy, or at least to refer you to someone who can intervene on your behalf.

  346. Radu Voda January 9, 2013 at 1:49 pm #

    Ask Be. She wants them to have all power. She only hates them right now because they’re not REAL COMMUNISTS (as if such a thing exists).

  347. Radu Voda January 9, 2013 at 1:56 pm #

    Your writing is extremely unclear here and in your response. In any case, “tempt not your brother” (or sister) is a sound moral priniciple. Look at how many women have ruined men via divorce once they were allowed to do so.

  348. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 1:56 pm #

    Thus does Rhino’s race theory support Radu.
    All this dividing people into superior/inferior, based on physical characteristics, has led to violence and, ultimately, genocide.
    Radu says: “Yes some people are more White than others.”
    It matters not what color white you are. All whites need to be protected because they are a global minority in via of extinction. Whites have the right to survive; it is their basic human right.

  349. Rhino January 9, 2013 at 2:03 pm #

    Widespread gun ownership hasn’t prevented the looting and wrecking of the USA by its elites. You all had guns. What did you do with them? Did you stop the wrecking of the economy via offshoring? Did you stop the mind boggling Wall Street and Bankster frauds? Did it help you control the influx of millions of semi-literate and or illiterate illegal immigrants even as your elites were gutting your industries by exporting millions of good paying jobs? Did you organize yourselves into well regulated militias as your founding fathers envisioned? No, the guns were useless to you except maybe occasionally in self defence against armed bad guys.

  350. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 2:06 pm #

    All whites need to be protected because they are a global minority in via of extinction. Whites have the right to survive; it is their basic human right.
    =============
    Yes, Asoka, whites need to be protected… from violence, so whites don’t suffer violence that they have inflicted on others; from slavery, so whites don’t suffer the enslavement they inflicted on others; from genocide, so they don’t suffer the genocide they inflicted on others.

  351. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 2:11 pm #

    Did it help you control the influx of millions of semi-literate and or illiterate illegal immigrants
    ===============
    No, guns are powerless to stop people from taking back the land that was stolen from them. Borders? They are artificial and they didn’t stop people from crossing in the millions.
    Viva La Reconquista!

  352. Rhino January 9, 2013 at 2:15 pm #

    Look here asshole, a website with some actual science:
    http://dienekes.blogspot.ca/
    Read up, might do some good.
    As I said earlier ideologues and especially racist ideologues are humanity’s plague, racist posters like yourself do immense harm. Just by sheer repetition racist idiots legitimize the kind of idiot discourse that goes nowhere good. Do humanity a favor and shut your hole.
    And Radu, do yourself a favor too and read this atuff. You might learn something. And nobody serious that I’ve ever read has ever claimed that the original Incas were “white”. There’s some recent studies referenced on this site about Amerindian origins. Have a look.

  353. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 2:25 pm #

    Do humanity a favor and shut your hole.
    ===============
    Your unsolicited fascist advice is cordially rejected. Fascists have always tried to silence the right to speech. Unfortunately for you, you are condemned to continue reading and responding to my posts.

  354. Rhino January 9, 2013 at 2:29 pm #

    Do you support the right of American citizens to disregard the laws of Mexico and cross the Rio Grande and live in Mexico without permission?
    Do you support the right of English speaking American citizens to impose their needs and wants and language and culture on the present day residents of Mexico?
    Do you support the rights of Englsih speaking American citizens to disregard the rights of Mexican citizens to determine who gets to cross the border and live among them?
    Do you disregard the legimimate interests of Mexican citizens with respect to immigration? What interests? Economic and cultural and political interests to name a few. Interests with respect to living space and environment to name a couple others.
    Let me know. I asked these questions last week and you ignored them.

  355. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 2:35 pm #

    Were these hypothetical English speaking whites living on the land now called Mexico, south of the Rio Grande?
    Did Mexico forcibly take the land from the English speaking whites and then violate the provisions of a treaty agreed upon?
    Answer these questions.

  356. Rhino January 9, 2013 at 2:36 pm #

    Freedom of speech or any other freedom only works in the context of exercising common sense, consideration and self restraint. You see, asshole, what most people grok but what you don’t is that your rights end where the other guy’s nose begins.

  357. Rhino January 9, 2013 at 2:52 pm #

    Who the fuck are you to talk about historic injustice? You, the descendant of European colonists to the USA. Oh, don’t bother to deny it College Boy. You ain’t Black, you ain’t old. You don’t know shit about the Jim Crow era, you weren’t even born then.
    Mexico forcibly took land? That’s a joke. Mexico is the creation of Spanish conquerors and colonists. And the Spanish like the English and others forcibly took the land and fucked over the indigenous people of the new world. But that really isn’t unique. Amerindians weren’t exactly virginal in this either.
    So if you’re going to start righting wrongs and giving back land to righful owners well there’s a lot of land in Europe and Turkey and North Africa to name a few places taken from righful owners by occupying imperial powers that should be restored. Don’t you think?
    And, what the fuck are you doing living in the land area of the USA? Get the fuck out so the rightful owners can have it back.

  358. Radu Voda January 9, 2013 at 3:04 pm #

    The next minority group to be adored: pedophiles. Bestiality is still a couple of decades away from being declared normal. After that would be necrophillia. Luckily we wont last long enough for either of these two to “gain traction” by the insane Liberal Press.
    http://m.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jan/03/paedophilia-bringing-dark-desires-light

  359. Radu Voda January 9, 2013 at 3:08 pm #

    I thought nobody owned the Land – that the Globe is without borders. How could Whites take anything from the “Mexicans”? Likewise, since Chinese are Africans, they have every right to Africa – just as much as the Blacks.

  360. Radu Voda January 9, 2013 at 3:11 pm #

    Science has been infected by political correctness. By the time archaeologists knew what they were looking at, it was already too late. Whites were in the New World thousands of years ago. It’s cutting edge stuff and I wouldn’t expect you to know about it.
    Was the link I sent from a White Nationalist site or was it mainstream? Eh, College Boy? Go look again.

  361. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 4:44 pm #

    You funny, Rhino!

  362. Treeman January 9, 2013 at 4:57 pm #

    For those who are concerned that a nation might try to cheat a Nuclear Weapons Convention, a world system of sensors is now in place. While it is almost impossible to produce a nuclear weapon without testing, this worldwide system will make any nuclear weapons test immediately known to all.——
    Erm except that a uranium based bomb does not need testing, something even Oppenhiemer knew. Hence the reason why the only bomb tested at Trinity was plutonium based. Little boy worked just fine. Whack together an uranium based bomb and it will go bang. Also the reason why so many people are concerned about Iran who are believed to be doing just that.
    Not surprisingly such poor knowledge is why nuclear disarmament advocates have such little credibility.

  363. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 5:00 pm #

    Now you are beginning to get it. There are no nation-states or borders, just armed gangs defending their illusory turf.
    The Earth belongs to no one. Very good observation, Rhino.

  364. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 5:23 pm #

    Welcome back to the fun, Tree Man!
    Only one problem with your post: Iran is not currently known to possess any HEU; nor is it simple to see how it could come into possession of any while under the NPT regime. You have some verifiable proof indicating otherwise? Since Islam is a religion of peace, Iran is probably just interested in nuclear power. Do you have any evidence otherwise?
    US intelligence analysts believe there is no hard evidence that Iran has decided to build a nuclear bomb, The New York Times reported Saturday.

  365. Treeman January 9, 2013 at 5:42 pm #

    Iran has uranium in sufficient quantity, it has already passed the threshold 20% pure uranium and continues onwards. Why not have a look at the amount of work required to produce uranium for a bomb. They are already 60% there and already beyond the point for fuel and for medical purposes.
    Since your previous source could not get even the most basic facts correct why on earth would we give any credibility to a reporter from the NYT who quotes ‘ intelligence analysts’. Are these the same ones who have called wrong on pretty much every guess they have made? The US intelligence community has almost always pandered to their presidents bias. It is why the British, German, Israeli and Australian counterpart services handle the intelligence supplied to them with such skepticism. One bitten etc…….

  366. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 5:51 pm #

    Your evidence, to date, consists of this statement:
    “so many people are concerned …”
    I’ll take 16 spy agencies with spy satellites over your statement that people are “concerned”

  367. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 6:10 pm #

    Practically the day the mullahs took over in 1979 in Iran the propaganda war began that Iran was developing a nuclear weapon.
    From the Christian Science Monitor:
    9 May 1984 – Vienna. ”Claims of an imminent Iranian nuclear bomb are without foundation.” So says Georges Delcoigne, spokesman for the International Atomic Energy…”
    Note the words IMMINENT IRANIAN NUCLEAR BOMB… (in 1984)
    Anti-Iranian forces have been crying wolf for over 30 years now… with no proof Iran has any intentions of developing anything other than nuclear power.
    It doesn’t take 30 years to develop a bomb if you really want to.
    Iran does not want to: History is the best proof.
    You are perpetuating the Iran-boogie-man myth. Shame on you.

  368. Soul Pucker January 9, 2013 at 6:25 pm #

    It suddenly dawned on me that it has already collapsed. At least, in the sense of a wooden house with a terminal infestation of termites. We just don’t know it because the termites are in the wood. Everybody’s “just a number”, and they’ve been socialized accordingly in giant institutions, like schools, corporations, government bureaucracies, prisons, etc. We’ve all been de-humanized.

  369. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 6:42 pm #

    Such a beautiful Earth
    http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/IMAGES/SMALL/GPN-2000-001444.jpg
    And not a single national boundary delineated.
    DELINEATE
    1. to trace the outline of; sketch or trace in outline; represent pictorially

  370. Soul Pucker January 9, 2013 at 6:43 pm #

    I don’t know who’s crazier—the inmates in the insane asylum, or the bloke, like JHK, who keeps shouting in the insane asylum for a leader to step forward to lead us to a world of small, walkable communities and a world-made-by-hand?

  371. asoka.. January 9, 2013 at 6:57 pm #

    I am wondering if Asoka is paid to troll here.
    =============
    Lucky 13 and Ozone, you still haven’t said how you define “troll”
    Do you really think the USA government would pay me to make pro-Islam and pro-Iranian posts? What government agency?
    Maybe Asoka is really a team of posters who have posted around the clock for the last seven years?
    But can a team of posters be in the 1% …?
    Why not? Maybe Asoka is incorporated and … Corporations are people, my friends.
    Yes, Asoka is a team of people, each of which earn in the high six-figures. Young people, white college boys who never marched with Harry Belafonte and Ossie Davis in the 1950s at the height of the SANE movement (Committee for a SANE Nuclear Policy)

  372. BeingThere January 9, 2013 at 7:16 pm #

    Might I suggest:
    Great group of interviews esp David Cay Johnson at this site. He explains how the ideas of Milton Friedman were not conservative, but radical. He also includes in the radicalism our justices who ignore historic precedent and call entities sucha as corporations people with rights of speech. Its been the destruction of this economy as it has been around the world where its been instituted.(and much more in a scant 9 minutes)
    http://neweconomicperspectives.org/p/interviews.html

  373. ront January 9, 2013 at 7:22 pm #

    When I was a child, the Democratic Party’s candidate for President was Adlai E. Stevenson II. Maybe he can still lead us with his legacy of wisdom:
    “It is often easier to fight for one’s principles than it is to live up to them.”
    “All progress has resulted from people who took unpopular positions.”
    “You can tell the size of a man by the size of the thing that makes him mad.”
    “My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular.”
    “Change is inevitable. Change for the better is a full time job.”
    Adlai E. Stevenson II

  374. ront January 9, 2013 at 8:12 pm #






    Heteroinstitutional marriage?

  375. Soul Pucker January 9, 2013 at 8:26 pm #

    Excuse me…Did you say that you are a “Deep Friar”, or a “Deep Fryer”?
    Thanks.

  376. progress4conserving January 9, 2013 at 9:07 pm #

    “Yes, yesterday I heard a conservative saying (seriously) that had the principal at Sandy Hook had a gun, things would have turned out differently.” -bt-
    It’s easy to make fun of this argument, bt.
    But I would suggest stopping short of doing that.
    There are 1000’s of possible permutations, combinations, and endings to the Sandy Hook tragedy.
    ===================
    I haven’t mentioned it in months, but my wife is a 30 year (now retired, thank God (god?)) classroom teacher. I got to know many of her co-workers quite well. Many were ditzes, who probably shouldn’t have been carrying scissors on a bad-hair-day. (haha) But several were very cool people. There were retired cops, and decorated ex-combat-veterans among her cohort. And there were several plain-old-civilians whom I would have trusted with my life. Or, more importantly, trusted with my children’s lives, or with my wife’s life.
    Schools are “WEAPON FREE ZONES,” these days.
    I can tell horror stories, of high school kids with crowbars, knives, or hatchets in their personal cars – who fell afoul of the regulations.
    And I have become convinced that the “Gun Free Zone” aspect of schools is contributing to the problem. Think of how many of these perpetrators have killed themselves as soon as they heard sirens – or saw any armed opposition.
    It’s not that Sandy Hook could have been totally preventable by an armed principal. That’s a conjecture that goes far too far.
    And it’s CERTAINLY NOT that every teacher should carrying 24/7 – locked and loaded. That’s beyond stupid.
    But granting a FEW, carefully screened and trained, teachers or administrators SIMPLE permission to carry weapons on their campuses – to bring some possibility of defense into the “Gun Free Zone”
    I just don’t know how it’s possible to argue that that is not an idea with some merit – that should be objectively examined, and probably approved.

  377. progress4conserving January 9, 2013 at 9:17 pm #

    “And not a single national boundary delineated.
    DELINEATE
    1. to trace the outline of; sketch or trace in outline; represent pictorially”
    -i troll, therefore i am, rene asoka-
    http://www.space.com/14240-earth-international-borders-visible-space-aas219.html
    http://www.universetoday.com/88740/it-turns-out-some-borders-are-visible-from-space/
    I think JHK’s blog software cuts me off at two links – but Google gives over 4 million hits, and some very cool satellite pics – in response to this search string, “political borders visible from space”

  378. progress4conserving January 9, 2013 at 9:39 pm #

    “Trolling is a game about identity deception, albeit one that is played without the consent of most of the players. The troll attempts to pass as a legitimate participant, sharing the group’s common interests and concerns;”
    -wiki, describing cfn’s asoka..with perfection-
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
    And like Henry Morgan/WSP/Marlin –
    I find asoka..’s provocations OK, generally.
    ================
    He’s at his worst, IMO, when uses his repetitive “racist” language to produce heat without light.
    (as Rhino points out with eloquence, racist name-calling in a country like the modern US is nasty and vile – and finally leads to an awful end. If soaker hose were really black he would not speak so gratuitously of racism – simply to “win??” his little CFN troll..isms.
    Or he’s at his worst when he speaks for another poster, shunting possible thought-provoking dialog into asoka..troll…hell
    Really, though, he’s at his worst, and most selfish, when he engages a new poster, and drives him away with anger or asoka..drivel, before that poster engages with JHK’s body of work, or with some of the other minds on CFN.
    Doesn’t matter.
    Asoka..puts the “fuck” in this ClusterFuck.
    He will, apparently, be here ’till just slightly after the internet dies for good.
    Sorry about that, JHK – and ANY (hi Ozone!) of the rest of you Clusterfuckers who articulate how GREAT this ClusterFuck would be if our..soaker..hose would just go away.
    That’s just the way it is.
    Some things will never change.

    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    Viva La Clusterfucquista!

  379. k-dog January 10, 2013 at 12:05 am #

    Contest !!

    Decay of the city had progressively degraded the function and value of the public works. Entertainments and theaters could momentarily distract but could no longer gratify the wandering throngs of aimless souls. Public buildings lay dark and vacant. Diminished crowds of a nearly extirpated people were lost among lonely roads and the immense plazas. Empty libraries, churches and halls of justice hinted of former greatness but were now useless to the indolent inhabitants except as an inexhaustible source for materials that could no longer be attained any other way.

    • Identify the writer.
    • Book chapter. (identify)
    • Publication date.
    • City name.

    Names have been changed to protect the innocent.

  380. k-dog January 10, 2013 at 12:12 am #

    Ty. I had a private smile when I posted that. I knew the prize would be worth the search.

  381. BeingThere January 10, 2013 at 7:19 am #

    P4C,
    The end of innocence is tragic especially for young children who should never have to face the harsh realities of life at that point in life.
    My point is that most people that go in for teaching kindergarten and elementary school do so because they love children and want to foster a nurturing environment. Many are not made for gun action.
    Yes you could have a marshal guard which of course will cost the tax-payers more, but a few volunteers that know how to handle guns isn’t altogether a bad idea, but there are unintended consequences too of bystanders being shot
    There are no easy answers and I think the fellow I was making fun of was very glib without thought.
    I don’t know if you’re familiar with British folk rockers from the ’70’s Richard and Linda Thompson. From their album “I Want to see the Bright Lights Tonight”, their song “End of the Rainbow”comes to mind.
    chorus:
    Life seems so rosy in the cradle
    but I’ll be a friend, I’ll tell you what’s in store
    There’s nothing at the end of the rainbow
    There’s nothing to grow up for anymore

  382. HenryMorgan January 10, 2013 at 7:53 am #

    Big thing here are the massive Condo/Office Park/Strip Mall projects in the pipeline thru out the State. They are announced weekly, with great fanfare. “We are Coming Back”! These all seem to be backed up with grants from the State Government, which is curious because the State is running deep deficits already. Who is going to live in these Condos? What kind of businesses will operate in the new Office Parks? Who will shop in the new Strip Malls when so many Strip Malls exist already? The local media doesn’t ask these questions. They seem to be just Cheerleaders for whatever project is announced today. There are no real jobs anymore but it doesn’t matter because from here on in life is going to be one big shopping spree.
    –HM

  383. BeingThere January 10, 2013 at 8:08 am #

    That’s supply side economics!
    Good luck with that. People have to have expendable income to buy it….(3% interest is the lure)

  384. ozone January 10, 2013 at 9:11 am #

    Aye, there’s the rub! Good questions, BTW.
    I think if you look at the [macro] results of these efforts to prop up the unsustainable, you’ll see that with every burst of boom and build, the returns get weaker and weaker [each time].
    That is one benefit of living in a climate where winter puts a big slowdown on this “activity” and we can get some insight/hindsight into what it has produced in the lag time.
    (IOW, we can actually NOTICE the water temp. rising as we’re boiled to death! ;o)
    These are the perils of applying a system (like Unka Milty F.’s) that relies on infinite resources onto a planet where reality rules. …Now if we could just find one to move to where what we wish for is what would pop into being!!
    So far… no luck. Probably why “religious thought” is so popular. “If I can’t have it here; I’ll definitely be rewarded with it in the next life/incarnation.” UNenlightened self-interest, perhaps as a response to childhood stressors that the animal human has wishfully applied to his disinterested planet.

  385. ront January 10, 2013 at 10:12 am #

    from Erich Fromm
    “This is perhaps one of the most, if not the most, important problems of today: namely, the relationship of persons to power. It is not a question of knowing what power is. Nor is the problem the lack of realism–of underestimating the role and functions of power. It is a question of whether power is sanctified or not, and of whether a person is morally impressed by power. He who is morally impressed by power is never in a critical mood, and he is never a revolutionary character.
    “My assertion is that the sane person in an insane world, the fully developed human being in a crippled world, the fully awake person in a half-asleep world–is precisely the revolutionary character. Once all are awake, there need no longer be any prophets or revolutionary characters–there will be only fully developed human beings. ”

  386. driguana January 10, 2013 at 11:36 am #

    store brand ketchup??? not the Kerry-Heinz variety??? or is that catsup??? It’s all becoming very confusing….

  387. Confusionism January 10, 2013 at 11:46 am #

    Anecdotal: Here in St. Pete, FL, the high today will be 85. Empirical: A group of killer whales is trapped off Canadian waters by encroaching ice. According to a local inuit, the ice is forming later than usual this year. Statistical: In 2012, the ratio of record high temperatures to record low temperatures was 5 to 1.
    Global warming is here. Whether it is negligably, partly or wholly due to human influence is debatable, but it will be getting hot in here.

  388. Jam47 January 10, 2013 at 12:59 pm #

    And up here in Toronto we’re still wondering if winter is going to arrive. It hasn’t yet. Autumn has been followed by Spring, not Winter.
    Unless you’re ill or utterly enfeebled, right now you could go outside in a sports jacket without feeling cold. And it’s almost the middle of January!
    Winter in Toronto has been getting milder and milder. This city used to have really wicked winters. No more. Looks like a trend.

  389. Radu Voda January 10, 2013 at 1:16 pm #

    Exactly. The Constitution seems to be dead. They let Obama get away with the Amnesty even though it had been voted down twice. So now he’s going to do it again to outlaw guns.
    Fromm was a member of the Frankfurt School, a group of Jewish Intellectuals who came to America to destroy it – change it beyond recognition in ways utterly contrary to its roots. Change can be natural or unnatural in other words. A great river is always changing but that very different than damming it to create a reservior.
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/biden-obama-might-use-executive-order-deal-guns_694984.html

  390. Radu Voda January 10, 2013 at 1:28 pm #

    Gun saves woman and her children. This my new heroine. Black began to break in and she fled in terror to the attic. Instead of going about the business of theft, he went through the whole house and then up to the attic – as if he was looking for someone to rape or kill. A big mistake: she shot him 5 times.
    Alot of women are getting guns – even Liberals. Some think that’s one reason crime is down in America as a whole – even though up in the inner cities where legal ownership is forbidden.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2257966/Paul-Ali-Slater-Intruder-shot-times-face-neck-cornering-mother-kids-attic.html?ICO=most_read_module

  391. ront January 10, 2013 at 2:02 pm #

    Sometimes in nature change is gradual and sometimes it is radical. Consider the changing tides and growth of flora and fauna. Then consider a tsunami or a large earthquake.
    If one realizes he is imprisoned, he can choose to find release or choose to make his prison cell more comfortable. Different strokes…

  392. Radu Voda January 10, 2013 at 2:24 pm #

    Exactly. The Earth abides. Now that that’s established, which gang are you going to back? The NWO? The Mexicans? The Whites? Look down at your hands – what color are they? That’s a good begining criterion of where you belong. Like goes with like. Remember, not to choose is to choose. Nowadays, that’s a default choice for the NWO.

  393. Rhino January 10, 2013 at 2:27 pm #

    Probably ranks in the top two most boneheaded comments ever posted on clusterfuck.
    The earth belongs to no one? Let me define “belongs” in terms that a One Percenter will intuitively grasp seeing as greed is the be all and the end all for the One Percent. Let’s say that it means “to have in one’s possession”. That’s a common dictionary definition. Or, you can say, “the right of use and possession”.
    Now, I know that the One Percent, especially the One Percent with origins in the USA, are all for open borders and unrestricted movement of people (preferably those most docile and minimally literate/numerate) for the purpose of the enrichment of the One Percent through the general impoverishment of everyone else.
    National borders are such an inconvenience for the One Percent and such a hindrance to the bottom line. Isn’t that so Mr One Percent?
    But people in other countries may not see it that way. You see, they know that their lives depend on holding onto a piece of ground because that piece of ground provides for their security and sustenance and livelihood. And they enforce their claim on that land with armed might. Or at least they wish they could. Like Palestinians for example. Go to Palestine. Just tell Palestinians in a refugee camp whose families lost their farms and citrus groves in the 1940s that their turf is “illusory”, that “the earth belongs to no one”.
    Or go to China and talk to Chinese farmers who were forcibly evicted from their farms without any compensation by goons sent by the local Communist councils so that the land they farmed could be taken over by private developers. Tell them “the earth belongs to no one”, that their turf is “illusory”. Want some advice? Be prepared to run. Fast. Especially if the evicted farmers have little ones to feed.
    Illusory turf? Fucking hilarious College Boy. Piss your pants funny. Spoken like a true One Percenter. One that hasn’t the foggiest fucking clue where food, fuel, water or anything else that sustains life comes from. I guess that in true One Percent fashion you pay people, as little as possible mind you, to take care of all that grubby stuff for you. Right College Boy?
    I guess that a One Percenter thinks that wealth comes from moving numbers on computer screens and spreadseets and that power is exercised through lawyers with briefcases and verbal muscle flexing in corporate board rooms. One Percenters wave around their share holdings, their inherited money, their family connections, their Ivy League degrees. And they cannot wrap their heads around the fact that their lives depend on other people getting dirty doing real work.
    But, you know, we can take a measure of courage from the certainty that this cluelessness will eventually spell the end of the One Percent. Like the cluelessness that spelled the end of the Romanovs and the French aristocracy who one day learned that, in reality, they were as helpless as can be.
    But, hey College Boy, let’s not think such unworthy thoughts. Ever been to a grocery store College Boy? You probably have. What? You haven’t? Then I’ll bet you’re like Bush Sr who dropped into one for a photo op just to show he’s a reg’ler guy. And then gave away his One Percent status by staring in wide eyed wonderment at the checkout scanner. He’d never seen one, probably had no idea such things even existed. I’ll bet you don’t remember that hilarious incident. No? I thought not but that’s ok you probably weren’t born yet. Oh, you don’t know what I mean by “checkout scanner”.






  394. Rhino January 10, 2013 at 2:40 pm #

    Dumbed down? Well, the people of southern Europe – the environs of Greece and Italy – civilized Europe. Through military conquest, through trade and the building of roads and secure trade routes and the enforcement of law and order. And the migration of settlers from north to south.
    And then re-civilized Europe via the Rennaissance which took root in Italy and then spread from there after the calamity of the centuries long Dark Ages.
    As far as Arab influence goes, I’m having trouble seeing that as a negative seeing as Fibonacci didn’t dream up the Hindu Arabic numbering system with its crucial concept of zero but rather got it via Arab sources. We’d be nowhere without that. Where would science and its foundation in mathematics be without that system? And our alphabet was derived from lettering systems developed by Middle Eastern Semitic people and adopted by Greeks and Etruscans and Romans.
    Have to remember also that, for most of the centuries since the inception of Islam, Europe was back on its heels in the face of Islamic economic and military power. In the late 1600s Muslim armies were pounding on the gates of Vienna. Wasn’t until Muslims took a pass on the modernization ie the progress of the last 300 years – that Europe at last got a leg up.
    Have to remember also that, as others have pointed out, cities like Jericho are 10 thousand years old. Europe was a laggard for millennia in the game of civilization building. Does it mean that caucasian Europeans were genetically deficient?
    So I wouldn’t be too quick to point at who’s dumb. Different peoples move on different timetables. As someone else pointed out a while back, Amerindians in central America built mind boggling cities and temples. But Amerindians in North America didn’t. So what can you therefore conclude about their relative genetic superiority/inferiority? Nothing. I’ve read that in Central America people apparently used wheels on toys but not for movement of goods or people. What can you conclude from this? Well, what can you conclude when you look at their astronomy and architecture?
    If I were you I would cease and desist with this theorizing about racial superiority. Why? Going nowhere. At least nowhere good. As someone pointed out in an essay in a major American publication, there is a highly esteemed school in NYC for gifted students. And 70% of the student body is Asian. What does this tell you? Well, not too damn much. You can also point to China and ask why are there a billion people there living with subsaharan living standards if Asians are so damn smart. And if they’re so damn smart why did they annihilate 70 million or so of their fellow citizens via the insanities of the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution? So when an Asian triumphantly points a finger about Asian intellectual superiority three point back at him. So it is with Europeans.
    Bend your efforts to something else. Your country is going down the pipes and it isn’t touching the sides. So why piss way your mental energy on this. And honestly, you have the sound of someone that doesn’t believe anymore what he’s saying but wants a cause to believe in. And, a long time ago, like many if not most young men, I was the same. I wanted a cause. But a lot of grief can come from this. And you know what I’m refering to.

  395. Radu Voda January 10, 2013 at 2:40 pm #

    The Frankfurt school sought/seeks radical change to make America better for themselves (Jews, the one percent) and worse for Whites. To this end, they used Women and minorities, promising them triumph over their White Male enemies. One is reminded of Tolkien’s chant:
    One Ring to rule them all,
    One Ring to find them,
    One Ring to bring them all
    And in the Darkness bind them.
    I got kicked off a New Agey blog that posted aphorisms of the day, with a focus on Hazrat Khan. I’m not even sure how I got put on this blog, but I like Hazrat so I stayed. I decided to shake things up and show them something a bit more real to see how they dealt. They didn’t. I just showed them that Gandhi wasn’t PC and didn’t trust the Jews. He thought Hitler was a good guy, said the Jews should commit suicide to seek a better rebirth, etc. I don’t even believe that but he did. Of course the moderator blamed me for what Gandhi believed, the old kill the messenger trick. They all wanted to go back to sleep and keep believing the fairy tales.
    The moderator was probably a Jew. Many seekers are and I respect that since their own religion is so compromised. Apparently many Jews are in this Sufi Tradition following Samuel Lewis. He was cool as was Hazrat. But in general, this whole thing has become Sufism Lite – and the way they reacted to me is a good example. Real Sufism means becoming a Muslim – and I don’t blame anyone who blanches at that… Anyway take a look and tell me what you think. Don’t blame me….the Media has totally recreated Gandhi. We know very little about the real Mahatma.






  396. Radu Voda January 10, 2013 at 2:59 pm #

    There was a White Mediteranean Race, such as the Latins, but all these are pretty much gone now: too many invasions from both the North and the South and then the Roman slave trade. Classical Greece was founded by Aryans called the Dorians. They overthrew the old Civilization, which might well have been of this old Mediteranean People. In any case, they all mixed together. Crete was still powerful – again the old Civilization.
    So no, I don’t think these people were inferior, I’m just saying they’re mostly gone. Maybe some of the originals are still in Crete or the mountains of Sicily etc. But much of Classical Greece and Rome was Aryan and/or Alpine. The Romans seemed to have been a mixture of these two. The Latins they conquered were the old Mediteraneans. The Etruscans seemed to have been someting else completely.
    Here’s the link again. The original Incans seem to have been White – and they were massacred by Indian usurpers. The woman were kept alive of course. Blondes!
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/moment-600-years-ago-that-terror-came-to-mummies-of-the-amazon-7174204.html
    Note the byline – nothing to do with White Nationalism. Remember what Napoleon said after coming out of the Vatican Library, History is an agreed upon fable. People are now as set in their ways as the old Priests who wouldn’t look thru Galileo’s telescope. Careers, Grants, Univesity Departments, Political Power – all are focused on keeping history set in stone. No one wants to look at the evidence of Whites in the New World – so they bury it as they buried Kennewick Man. That he was a member of the local Indian Tribe was an obvious lie, but a useful one.
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/moment-600-years-ago-that-terror-came-to-mummies-of-the-amazon-7174204.html
    That some Southern Caucasians are bright, I never denied. On average though, they are well below Whites and East Asians.

  397. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 3:14 pm #

    History is an agreed upon fable.
    =================
    Very good observation, Radu!
    History is creative writing.
    History is literary fiction.

  398. Radu Voda January 10, 2013 at 4:53 pm #

    Gandhi also recieved Victoria’s coveted war medal for courage under fire during one of the Kaffir wars – in this case a Zulu uprising. Seargeant Major Gandhi had organized a brigade of Hindus to help the British regulars.
    I’m as surprised as anybody. I mean I didn’t drop out of the sky fully wise and informed. I have to keep working at it just like anyone would or I’d be as brainwashed as everybody else.

  399. anti soak January 10, 2013 at 4:54 pm #

    Its the sub-urban cargo cult.
    JHK mentioned in TLE the cities, now stuggling due to Clinton and NAFTA, building sports complexes, etc.
    The best example I can think of is HUFFY Bikes and
    [Farmington?] and the building of the sports complex. [20 000 000$], Soon as Huffy could legally bail, it did.
    Its been a long time since I read its story in Forbes or where ever so I may have some details off.

  400. Radu Voda January 10, 2013 at 4:55 pm #

    You’re twisting it already. It doesn’t have to be is the point. Whites at their best try to get it right or be objective. No one else tries at all but rather just tells a story that makes their side look good.

  401. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 5:01 pm #

    History is an agreed upon fable.
    ==============
    Upon second thought, Radu, “history” does not rise to the level of fable. Fables can actually be universally useful. “History” was invented and cultivated as a learned science in the West, based on specifically Western, aristocratic, racist, gen(d)eric, and classist preconceptions, and is no more universalist in its applicability to other cultures than Christianity or capitalism. History is delusory. The historical past, as written by historians, has very limited, if any, practical usefulness, and contributes only minimally to the understanding of what ordinary folk regard as “the present.”

  402. turkleton January 10, 2013 at 5:41 pm #

    Okay, so you concede that I win 50% of the argument by (finally) admitting the obvious point that having more guns around generally tends to lead to more serious levels of crimes with firearms per capita. This is suggested by the link between the states with the highest levels of gun crime having the most guns, and, vice versa, the states with the lowest levels having the least amount. The argument associating these two statistics is not iron-clad (what is?) but IS certainly suggestive of causation rather than an unrelated correlation. So thanks for giving me that obvious point. At least we’re getting somewhere.
    Then you procede to deploy the argumentative equivalent of “I know you are but what am I” by using some of my own phrasing but in a vague generic way, to supposedly dismiss (some of) my arguments. Yet you fail to specify which ones. So there’s really no meat on those bones, buddy.
    Well, if that constitutes an argumentative “draw” then I’d hate to see what it would look like if you claimed that I won this debate. Perhaps we need an independent arbiter.
    I’ll go ahead and apologize for the ad hominems, but I do notice, you aren’t very fact-based. You claim to like guns because they make you and those around you “feel” safe, or at least this is what I gather. That’s basically an argument from emotion. Will you grant this? And I’m trying to tell you that statistically speaking, in terms of your own and your family’s safety, you’re better off not having them around in the first place. I guess we’ll just have to disagree on this.
    And, yes, I concede that American culture is what it is non-withstanding our little debate here, and my opinions will likely not be acted upon. I’ll give you this.

  403. k-dog January 10, 2013 at 5:42 pm #

    Superiority, inferiority, big dog small dog. Tragic brutalization of the soul. I liked your post. Within any division of breeds the range of individual temperaments far exceeds the talents of the parent race. But more important than all, a dog without honor and virtue is worthless at best and repulsive if the lack of either is of a constitutional nature.
    Europe north of Italy was a wild collection of illiterate ignorant savages not unlike the Indians of North America only two thousand years ago. Across the globe societies slowly civilize, have their days in the sun and fall. Centuries of progress can be obliterated in a day or a slow strangulation can wash away the honor and virtue of founders as succeeding generations loose the values which made their lands flower. Such have the winds of history blown and were it not for a change of season the weather would continue unchanged,- but the gloomy change to the autumn of civilizations season has come and the winter might very well not bring spring.
    Going down the pipes not touching the sides we fall, dazed, confused grasping at magic. Looking for answers in all the wrong places. Ignoring undeniable truth we lie torpid in aversion to pain.

  404. turkleton January 10, 2013 at 5:44 pm #

    You have some of the best comments around here when you don’t take things too seriously. ;)

  405. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 6:03 pm #

    While you guys are arguing about things like armed guards in schools, there was another school shooting. The school had an armed guard, but that didn’t prevent two people from being shot.
    A teacher and campus supervisor engaged the shooter in conversation and distracted him while students evacuated the classroom, the sheriff said. The two adults were able to calm the shooter and convince him to put down the gun. Taft Union High School in Taft, Calif., normally has an armed guard on campus to help officials with problems that go “beyond the scope” of the administration. But on Thursday morning, as a student showed up with a shotgun and fired two to four shots at a teacher and a classmate, the officer was nowhere to be found.

  406. turkleton January 10, 2013 at 6:12 pm #

    I never said I thought that armed guards was the best solution, just something that might, possibly, mitigate some of the damage. But you’re right, it doesn’t even really tend to be that effective. Ultimately, I think having fewer guns around with more restricted access to them would be a far better way to approach the problem.

  407. turkleton January 10, 2013 at 6:14 pm #

    Vlad in a New Age forum. *guffaw* That’s kinda like a bull in a china shop.

  408. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 6:17 pm #

    I’m pretty sure the laws of physics prevent armed school guards from being in multiple places simultaneously.
    Maybe the solution is to hire one armed guard for every door in the building, maybe 70 or 80 armed guards per school.
    That solution would have the benefit of solving our unemployment problem and increasing the profits of the gun manufacturers, thereby making the NRA corporate sponsors happy.

  409. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 6:28 pm #

    In defense of Radu…
    Before becoming a white separatist Radu evidently did a lot of traveling in new age circles. At least that is what I conclude from some of his comments. Most people cannot make intelligent comments about figures like “Sufi lite” Samuel Lewis or ISKCON’s Swami Prabhupada… most people don’t even know who those people are. Radu does and his knowledge goes beyond what can be gleaned from an article in Wikipedia.
    I’m giving Radu a pass on this one, though I’m not surprised he was booted out of a New Age forum given his partiality to certain groups. New Agers tend to be more universalist. So Radu was heading into a buzz saw… and relishing the idea, I imagine.
    I normally do not publicly defend Radu, but I have to give him credit on the breadth of his knowledge in certain areas, and non-western spirituality is one of those areas.

  410. turkleton January 10, 2013 at 6:29 pm #

    1) Nuclear proliferation.
    Justified by a populous United States as growing population lets us keep throwing our weight around the globe.
    2) Global overpopulation.
    Exacerbated by a populous United States, as other regions export their own overpopulation issues.
    3) Environmental degradation.
    DRASTICALLY exacerbated by a populous US.
    Stop incoming immigration.
    Problems solved.
    I’ll admit #1 is a little weak, but somewhat valid.
    #2 and #3 are incontrovertible, however.

  411. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 6:45 pm #

    HOW MANY MEXICAN IMMIGRANTS? ZERO!
    The largest wave of immigration in history from a single country to the United States has come to a standstill. After four decades that brought 12 million current immigrants—most of whom came illegally—the net migration flow from Mexico to the United States has stopped and may have reversed, according to a new analysis of government data from both countries by the Pew Hispanic Center, a project of the Pew Research Center.
    Immigration has stopped. Have our problems gone away?

  412. Lucky 13 January 10, 2013 at 7:06 pm #

    Didn’t you know his children are named
    Heil Hitler, Harry Krishna and Patchouli?
    And thats just the boys!!!

  413. progress4conserving January 10, 2013 at 7:49 pm #

    “Immigration has stopped.”
    -asoka..proving that he lives to impede, and doesn’t know the difference in illegal immigration and LEGAL immigration – which continues at the rate of 1,000,000 persons/year.
    Turkle, I’ll get to you. But it’s hard to stick to a subject with this nitwit (a deliberate ad hominem, btw) around, sowing confusion.

  414. ozone January 10, 2013 at 7:53 pm #

    Wholly Shit!
    Soaky-boy defends and promotes little laddie lederhosen’s new-age, guru-inflected bullshittery!
    You “people” (like the duality of two, two, two fuckwits in one!) are truly amazing. …And fucking DEDICATED too!
    What is it about this “job” that attracts such venal sociopathy? Ummmm, must be the delightful anonymity, allowing a massive, chuckling deceit. And getting PAID for it and patted on the back by other coddling psychos. Good JOB choad-breaths!
    When you get done sucking each other off, please rise from your keyboards, go outside in the fresh air and fuck each other unto death. The hungry earth eagerly awaits your [only] contribution.

  415. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 8:02 pm #

    LOL!
    Glad to keep you entertained, ozone. You are a prime motivator to keep posting. My pay is over $800,000 annually to post to CFN, which does make me part of the 1%. That is what you want to believe anyway.

  416. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 8:10 pm #

    So we can call him “it,” per ozone.
    Or call him the Resident Impediment, per me.
    =============
    Or call him nitwit in deliberate ad hominem attack.
    Once you objectify and denigrate a human being, it is much easier to mistreat him or her.
    My name is Asoka, after one of the most exemplary rulers in world history.

  417. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 8:13 pm #

    LEGAL immigration – which continues at the rate of 1,000,000 persons/year.
    ============
    Which does even compensate for the declining birth rate in the USA.

  418. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 8:16 pm #

    LEGAL immigration – which continues at the rate of 1,000,000 persons/year.
    ===============
    Since 2000, the United States has admitted an average of 1 million legal immigrants per year, or an immigration rate of 3.5 per year per 1,000 U.S. residents. That rate compares with an immigration rate of 9.4 to 10.5 in previous peak decades.
    In fact, the current legal immigration rate is lower than that of any decade between 1830 and 1930.
    YIKES! THE IMMIGRATION RATE IS DECREASING!

  419. turkleton January 10, 2013 at 8:43 pm #

    Good catch. I guess the erroneous substitution of ‘t’ for ‘c’ can really get one into some serious lexical distress.
    This is not an ad hominem, or at least I meant it as more of a statement about the way you tend to argue, in general.
    Here’s a dictionary definition of the word (I meant to use!):
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fallacious
    The two definitions listed here are:
    1) embodying a fallacy
    2) tending to deceive or mislead
    I do think that you often tend to make arguments that fall into these two categories.
    I mean, saying that stopping US immigration will save the planet is a pure fallacy. It is simply not true.
    And arguing that guns make us safer is deception and misleading, if you are at all rooted in honest statistical analysis of the crimes connected to them, the study of which suggests the opposite.
    But is it a personal attack on you? Not really. More of an observation really. You seem like a decent person, regardless of the weird logical avenues you wander in internet debates. ;)
    Saying you’re not very fact-based was closer to an ad hominem, but I still stand by it. Most people argue from emotion. I probably do, too, though I at least try to back it up with, at the end of the day, something more rigorous than just my personal feelings about the matter.
    And I notice you’re okay with personal attacks on certain posters sometimes, e.g. asoka, whom I believe you referred to as a “nit wit”. I guess he’s getting under your skin once again!
    Man, I’m getting way too good at this pointless internet debating. I should probably devote my hours to something more personally enriching and fulfilling than typing things into this text box all the time.
    Have a good one.

  420. Buck's A Stud January 10, 2013 at 9:02 pm #

    Some great conversation this week, IMO.
    I have no super strong feelings about guns one way or another, but if ‘mental/emotional comfort’ is an aspect of self-defense, then guns are vastly over-rated in my estimation. For example, I was talking to a woman whose ex wants her to lift a restraining order so he can purchase a hand gun (he beat the crap out of her and put her in the hospital). How does one prepare for that type of potential retribution? If you deny him you could enrage him and he could seek vengeance in a variety of other manners. Or release the reigns on one who has previously kicked the shit out of you?
    Another example. Somebody lives close to the wilderness and one day shoots an intruder whom they was assumed dangerous but was actually only looking for some food and shelter to swipe. But now, his compatriots back in the wilderness zone – say a grieving, enraged brother – have the gun-bearing household in their telescope lens for future retribution. Would you feel safe living there now?
    Or would you feel like the wild, wild west gunslinger, who constantly sits with his back to a wall?
    Because at the end of the day, a gun does not simply fire a bullet;no, it launches a boomerang of potential repercussions and retribution that can devastatingly haunt a person for life.
    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not denying the potential self-defense benefits of a firearm, but there are a lot of peripheral scenarios circle around the use of a firearm.And some of them can leave a person being destroyed from the inside out.

  421. progress4conserving January 10, 2013 at 9:05 pm #

    Turk, here’s what I said about gun ownership and incidents with firearms:
    “Look, deaths by gun are higher in countries/states/cities/homes/baby cribs/wherever – that there is higher occurrence of – wait for it – GUNS.
    I’ll stipulate that, and it forms at least 50% of your “gun control argument,” here.”
    -p4c, trying to simplify turk’s relevant points-
    ==================
    And, again, you are doubling down on this point.
    I don’t know why this particular hindquarter of our “dead horse” fascinates you so.
    I used to work for a company that built high-end custom pools. My company had a couple of HIDEOUS tragedies involving drowned children in our pools. No legal liability on our part – just horrible tragedies, to two of the children of the elite glitterati of Atlanta, in those days.
    So there’s no question that owning a gun makes one’s family “statistically” more likely to be involved in accidents or crimes involving guns.
    Duh, turk. DUH!
    The same argument can be made for pools, or cars, or bathtubs. And your counterargument will be that pools/cars/bathtubs are not deliberately designed to kill. Which may be true. But it doesn’t alter the statistics. Nor does it alter the fact that we humans live dangerous lives on a dangerous planet.
    ========================
    As far as the other 50% of your argument. You cede my point when you say that a clear relationship here is, “..a difficult conjecture to support.” (your words, not mine)
    We could tease out the underlying statistics, probably to prove my point. Or maybe yours – depending on who’s doing the teasing.
    I don’t have the attention span for that, and this isn’t really the forum for it.
    So, let’s look at anecdotal evidence. I come from a huge and heavily armed extended family. I’m talking 17 brothers/sisters from my mom’s and dad’s families, combined. We’ve got cops and veterans out the wazoo.
    So I’m talking over 150 households of my cousins and cousins-in-law, by now. All own guns. Some own many, many guns. They hunt, they fish, they tote the things around. They teach their kids that gun control means “hitting your target,” from a young age.
    We’ve got zero firearms deaths by accident* or homicide, to date – which date includes 75+ years of 100’s of people living in the “violence prone??” South.
    Could that change? Sure.
    Could we have a tragedy tonight? Sure.
    But that’s unlikely, because we’re all trained and we all (to my knowledge) consistently practice proper firearms safety procedures.
    *accidents? I’ve had TWO cousins commit suicide. One was a blood relative, the other a relative by marriage.
    Both, BOTH!!, had recently started on SSRI’s, before committing suicide.
    Guns don’t worry me, Turk, statistics show my family is quite safe in their presence.
    SSRI’s, however, pose a severe statistical threat to my family.

  422. progress4conserving January 10, 2013 at 9:19 pm #

    Good prose, buck:
    “Because at the end of the day, a gun does not simply fire a bullet;no, it launches a boomerang of potential repercussions and retribution that can devastatingly haunt a person for life.
    ….peripheral scenarios circle around the use of a firearm.And some of them can leave a person being destroyed from the inside out.”
    Just remember that your prose holds true for any human resort to violence. Guns are only tools.

  423. progress4conserving January 10, 2013 at 9:36 pm #

    I’m gonna’ do this from memory, cause I’ve got to get off this thing, tonight.
    1. Nuclear weapons and US population. It’s pretty obvious that incoming immigration is being manipulated to keep the US “diverse” and “strong.”
    My point was that this perceived strength leads our many adversaries to desire nuclear weapons to take us down and stop our growth, if they can.
    2. Global overpopulation and US immigration.
    The point is that the US functions as a “safety valve” for the overpopulation in many other regions. Those regions don’t deal with their problems of overpopulation, they don’t have to – their problems emigrate to the US.
    3. Global environmental degradation and US immigration/overpopulation.
    The point is that people who move to the US cause more fossil fuel combustion and damage – than they did in their country of origin.
    ————————-
    Furthermore – we in the US can’t have an impact on the environmental damage caused by other countries. We can only try to mitigate our OWN damage.
    And the best way to do that is do reduce our own population growth – which is 3,000,000/year, and almost totally due to immigrants and the children of recent immigrants.
    ———————–
    You cede my main point anyway, turk.
    You keep doing that. I like it. :-)
    You think reduction of immigration into the US is a good idea. I agree.
    Now join me in doing something about it.

  424. progress4conserving January 10, 2013 at 9:39 pm #

    1927
    Deadliest mass murder EVER in a US school
    38 schoolchildren and 6 adults
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
    1927!

  425. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 9:43 pm #

    Just remember that your prose holds true for any human resort to violence. Guns are only tools.
    ==========
    Just remember that your prose holds true for any human resort to violence. Anti-tank rocket launchers are only tools.
    Police in Los Angeles had anti-tank rocket launchers turned in through a gun buy back program. These anti-tank rocket launchers are already in houses and on the streets because we have the right to bear arms.
    Anti-tank rocket launchers are only tools.
    Just remember, anti-tank rocket launchers don’t kill people. People kill people.
    And if anti-tank rocket launchers are outlawed, then only outlaws will have anti-tank rocket launchers.
    We have a 2nd Amendment in this country and they will have to pry the anti-tank rocket launcher out of my cold dead hands.
    If schools are guards armed with anti-tank rocket launchers, there would be fewer massacres of six-year olds in schools.

  426. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 9:59 pm #

    Those regions don’t deal with their problems of overpopulation, they don’t have to – their problems emigrate to the US.
    =============
    50% of legal immigration consists of Asian immigrants.
    You don’t have a problem with Asians, do you?
    Or you just don’t want ANY immigrants of ANY kind… now that your Scotch-Irish immigrant ancestors are safe and set up and procreating like rabbits. I’m talking about your 17 brothers/sisters from your mom’s and dad’s families, combined. I’m talking about over 150 households of my cousins and cousins-in-law, by now.
    But they can all stay. You just want to slam the door shut in the face of new immigrants who have the same hopes and the same dreams that your Scotch-Irish ancestors had when they refused to just STAY HOME in Scotland and Ireland. You are a small-minded xenophobe using population biology to justify your xenophobia.
    You said there are 1.3 million members of NumbersUSA. How many of those are white? (of any shade of caucasian) You won’t provide a number because you know you are promoting a racist organization using immigration as cover for its prejudice against non-whites.
    John Tanton and Roy Beck and Ku Klux Klan and White Citizens Council and all the other white separatist/white supremacist organizations are now trying to push their anti-immigrant hate agenda by focusing on stopping legal immigration.
    It will not work.

  427. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 10:05 pm #

    CORRECTION
    I’m talking about over 150 households of YOUR cousins and cousins-in-law, by now, P4C.
    Replacement procreation (ZPG), my ass, P4C. Your family is part of the problem of overpopulation in the USA. But you want to point the finger at others, at immigrants.
    Thank God you will fail in stopping LEGAL immigration and you will fail at stopping UNDOCUMENTED immigrants from crossing imaginary borders and staying here as long as they want as 27 million immigrants have already done according to F.A.I.R., another racist hate group you used to push until you found the more palatable NumbersUSA.

  428. The Racist Impediment January 10, 2013 at 10:07 pm #

    “John Tanton and Roy Beck and Ku Klux Klan and White Citizens Council and all the other white separatist/white supremacist organizations are now trying to push their anti-immigrant hate agenda by focusing on stopping legal immigration.”
    -the racist impediment-

  429. progress4conserving January 10, 2013 at 10:19 pm #

    I believe I have found asoka.
    He is David H., of Olympia Washington.
    One of three signatories to this petition which includes these words:
    “Draft legislation in support of emigration reform. Make it easier for Americans to leave this great land if they choose.
    Negotiate with foreign governments to accept immigrants from The United States of America.”
    -asoka../david h.
    The timing is right.
    And the maniacal insistence that “immigration” can fix all of the World’s ills is there, too.
    Hey, David! Is it really you?
    ‘Fess up, would you?

  430. k-dog January 10, 2013 at 10:23 pm #

    When caught in a red handed contradiction he admits the truth and then promptly exaggerates it to the a ridiculous and ludicrous extreme.
    The aim is to make a straight shooting observer appear the fool. I think it almost always works. Regular attendance pierces the veil of deceit but the act is effective to a casual or new pilgrim.

  431. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 10:23 pm #

    P4C, you are a coward to hide behind and post from this handle.
    Roy Beck, head of NumbersUSA is a racist and a liar.
    1. Roy Beck speaks for white supremacist audiences and admits to it! In 1997, NumbersUSA’s founder and president, Roy Beck, spoke at the national conference of the Council of Conservative Citizens, a blatantly racist organization that was born out of the old white citizens’ councils of the 1950s. At the 2010 National Conference for Science and the Environment, Roy Beck admitted to speaking at the Council’s conference.
    2. Roy Beck worked for white nationalist John Tanton. From 1994 – 2001, Roy Beck worked as a consultant for John Tanton at U.S. Inc. and was paid consulting fees totaling more than $750,000 according to IRS Form 990s obtained by the Center for New Community.
    3. Beck’s organization was founded as a result of funds received from a pro-eugenics foundation. In the 1980s, Beck’s good friend John Tanton (founder of Federation for American Immigration Reform or FAIR) asked for and received over a million dollars from the Pioneer Fund. Tanton used the money to financially support FAIR and create more anti-immigrant organizations, like NumbersUSA.
    4. Roy Beck writes for white nationalist publications. At least through 2000 Beck served as an editor for The Social Contract, a quarterly journal published by John Tanton. Until 2005 Beck continued as a regular writer for the publication. The white nationalist journal is currently edited by Wayne Lutton who also serves as a board member for the anti-Semitic Charles Martel Society.
    5. Roy Beck produces “educational” materials that promote individuals with ties to white nationalism and extreme anti-immigrant organizations. Roy Beck released a video on June 5, 2009 called Immigration 103 — American Trauma: Jobs and the Economy, featuring Roan Garcia-Quintana, a participant at the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens’ 2008 national conference and Dan Stein, president of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), founded by white nationalist John Tanton. In fact, eight of the ten experts highlighted in the video are part of the John Tanton Anti-Immigrant Network.
    6. Roy Beck’s work is promoted regularly by white supremacist, racist and anti-Semitic organizations and websites. Let’s not forget the campaign NumbersUSA threw together last March that was promoted by white nationalist David Duke, a former Grand Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Vinlanders Social Club – a midwest coalition of racist skinhead groups with a history of violence against members of the black community, and Stormfront, a leading white nationalist, white supremacist, neo-Nazi, and skinhead social networking forum.
    7. Roy Beck’s NumbersUSA was referenced in a recent article that blames immigrants for the BP oil spill. In a June 16, 2010 article, Colorado State University professor Phillip Cafaro, a writer for think-tank Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) and for FAIR (both founded by John Tanton), suggested that the BP oil spill is a result of immigrant populations. Titled “Oil Spills and Immigration Policy,” Cafaro links into NumbersUSA to support his anti-immigrant argument.
    8. His own right hand lady, Rosemary Jenks, spoke at a Tea Party rally with the White Boys Society. Rosemary Jenks hasn’t been able to skirt controversy despite her lawyerly rhetoric and soccer mom haircut. At the recent pro-SB 1070 tea party rally in Arizona, Rosemary Jenks spoke to a crowd including the White Boys Society – a white separatist biker gang.
    NumbersUSA’s message isn’t meant to resonate with most Americans, it’s meant to speak to those whose views are a lot more extreme. There is a way for the mainstream media to represent both sides of an issue without sourcing political extremists with ties to
    white nationalists. After all, would it be considered balanced reporting to source David Duke in an article on affirmative action?
    Absolutely not!
    Say NO! to racist NumbersUSA!

  432. k-dog January 10, 2013 at 10:25 pm #

    No No No
    He lives in a mud hut in South America and has said so 1000 times.

  433. progress4conserving January 10, 2013 at 10:27 pm #

    “Or you just don’t want ANY immigrants of ANY kind… now that your Scotch-Irish immigrant ancestors are safe and set up and procreating like rabbits. I’m talking about your 17 brothers/sisters from your mom’s and dad’s families, combined.”
    -asoka, stating the obvious-
    That’s correct.
    The last of the 17 were born in 1939.
    At which point the United States was not filled to overflowing – and death did not hover over the overpopulation of the United States.
    Now it does.
    The United States is full.
    Full to past all reason.
    Stop immigration now.
    Zero Population Growth for the United States!
    And Viva La Clusterfuquista!
    You’ve got to admit that was funny. ;0)

  434. k-dog January 10, 2013 at 10:27 pm #

    Do they have mud huts in South America?

  435. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 10:35 pm #

    Make it easier for Americans to leave this great land if they choose.
    P4C, the petition aims to make it easier for people like you to leave, and your 150-household Scotch-Irish clan.
    I am all for making it easier to enter and to leave, to move freely on the planet. According to your anti-immigrant rhetoric, you all should have just STAYED HOME.
    I am a product of folks who were not given the option of staying home. My ancestors were forcibly brought here, and beaten, and abused for centuries. You and yours have no such excuse.

  436. progress4conserving January 10, 2013 at 10:36 pm #

    “P4C, you are a coward to hide behind and post from this handle.”
    -the resident racist-
    Sorry, David, I think it’s funny.
    You, however, are either incredibly naive or incredibly evil to keep invoking your mantra of “racism,” into what should be a rational discussion of the immigration and population policies of the United States.
    Personally, I suspect naivety explains you.
    But uncorrected, naivety becomes evil.
    You are getting there.

  437. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 10:43 pm #

    Does it rain in Seattle?

  438. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 10:47 pm #

    Sorry, David, I think it’s funny.
    ==============
    You are lying now. You are not sorry about anything. You are determined to stop legal immigration and ignore data, like immigration rates have declined, like immigration from Mexico, is zero. You won’t be happy until Obama deports all immigrants. And if that happened, then you’d start of kicking out African-Americans. You’ll always have a boogey-man, an Other, to blame for your version of the clusterfuck.

  439. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 10:52 pm #

    But uncorrected, naivety becomes evil.
    ============
    Yes, if people don’t come around to your way of thinking (“immigration is a problem”) then they are evil.
    It’s but a short step from labeling people evil to justifying getting rid of them. After all, they have proved they are evil. Right?

  440. k-dog January 10, 2013 at 10:58 pm #

    Not on mud huts.

  441. progress4conserving January 10, 2013 at 10:58 pm #

    “You are lying now. You are not sorry about anything.”
    -david, misreading my mind-
    No, that’s incorrect.
    I am sorry you invoke “racism” into most every losing argument that you make about immigration and US population.
    I am sorry your moniker as “the resident racist,” offends you with its accuracy.
    ===================
    “You are determined to stop legal immigration..”
    On that, we are both agreed.

  442. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 11:08 pm #

    A cob mud hut would be difficult to get approved and that could have something to do with Seattle’s building code. Why don’t you do something useful and work on changing it?
    Steve Pfeiffer, engineering and technical codes manager for Seattle’s Department of Planning and Development, said cob falls outside the building code, so planners would want documentation of how the adobelike material performs. “In a sense, there’s no material that couldn’t possibly be used,” Pfeiffer said, “but we have earthquakes here, so that would have to be addressed. We have an energy code; that would have to be addressed.”

  443. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 11:09 pm #

    “It does seem rather queer that JK writes so eloquently – yet the BLOG fills with posts devoid of critical thought.” -bud-
    That has amazed me, too, bud.
    For nigh onto 3 years now.
    Ozone says the same thing.
    ===============
    Yeah, let’s have some more Gilligan’s Island song lyrics!
    Real critical thought there.

  444. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 11:15 pm #

    I’m not losing the argument. 27 million immigrants (according to F.A.I.R) are proof anti-immigration efforts have failed.
    How many members of NumbersUSA are non-caucasian? You won’t answer that, will you.
    You are losing the anti-immigrant battle and your racist organization is weak and cowardly, hiding and distancing itself from its racist John Tanton origins.

  445. progress4conserving January 10, 2013 at 11:22 pm #

    “You are losing the anti-immigrant battle”
    -david, accelerating degradation for humanity-
    “and your racist organization is weak and cowardly, hiding and distancing itself from its racist”
    -playing the race card, while losing-

  446. asoka.. January 10, 2013 at 11:27 pm #